THURSDAY, JUNE 14, 2018                                            10:35 A.M.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

                    SILENCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

                                 VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

                    OF ALLEGIANCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

                    MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY, JUNE 13TH.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                          1



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. MORELLE:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO DISPENSE

                    WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY, JUNE 13TH AND

                    ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

                    ORDERED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  YES.  GOOD MORNING, MR. SPEAKER;

                    GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, GUESTS.  WE HAVE A FULL AND

                    ACTIVE DAY TODAY AND IN JUST A MOMENT, I'LL DESCRIBE WHAT OUR DAY WILL

                    LOOK LIKE, BUT I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT ON THIS DAY IN 1777, THE

                    CONTINENTAL CONGRESS ADOPTED A RESOLUTION STATING THAT "THE FLAG OF THE

                    UNITED STATES BE 13 ALTERNATE STRIPES RED AND WHITE" AND THAT "THE

                    UNION BE 13 STARS, WHITE IN A BLUE FIELD, REPRESENTING A NEW

                    CONSTELLATION."  THE NATIONAL FLAG BECAME APTLY KNOWN AS THE "STARS

                    AND STRIPES."  AND THIS IS PARTICULARLY APPROPRIATE AS TODAY IS

                    CELEBRATED ACROSS THE COUNTRY AS FLAG DAY.

                                 AND UNDER THE HEADING OF, "DID YOU KNOW," DID YOU

                    KNOW THAT THE TOWN OF RYE, NEW YORK, REPRESENTED BY OUR FRIEND WHO

                    REPRESENTS THE 91ST ASSEMBLY DISTRICT, MR. OTIS, WHO IS MAKING HIS

                    WAY IN THE CHAMBERS AS I SPEAK, BUT THAT THE TOWN OF RYE, NEW YORK

                    WAS ONCE PART OF CONNECTICUT?  BOTH NEW YORK AND CONNECTICUT BACK

                    IN THE 17TH CENTURY CLAIMED RYE AS WITHIN THEIR BOUNDARIES UNTIL 1683

                    WHICH, YES, IS THE 17TH CENTURY, WHEN CONNECTICUT DECIDED TO FORMALLY

                    CEDE THE AREA TO NEW YORK.  AND WE ARE BLESSED THAT THAT HAPPENED,

                    OTHERWISE MR. OTIS WOULD BE IN HARTFORD, CONNECTICUT THIS MORNING

                                          2



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    INSTEAD OF ALBANY, NEW YORK.

                                 SO, WITH THAT HISTORICAL NOTE, LET ME JUST DESCRIBE A

                    LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY WE WILL MAKE TODAY, AS WELL.  MEMBERS HAVE ON

                    THEIR DESKS A MAIN CALENDAR, AS WELL AS A DEBATE LIST.  AFTER ANY

                    INTRODUCTIONS AND HOUSEKEEPING, AND I NOTE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF

                    INTRODUCTIONS AND MEMBERS OF OUR EXTENDED FAMILY HERE, WE WILL

                    CONTINUE TO CONSENT WHERE WE LEFT OFF ON THE MAIN CALENDAR YESTERDAY.

                    WE WILL BEGIN WITH RULES REPORT NO. 143 WHICH MEMBERS WILL FIND ON

                    PAGE 11 OF THE MAIN CALENDAR.  WE WILL ALSO, DURING THE DAY, WORK OFF

                    THE DEBATE LIST.  MEMBERS, IF YOU'RE ON THE FOLLOWING COMMITTEES,

                    PLEASE PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE DESK FOR

                    COMMITTEE MEETINGS:  THE COMMITTEE ON CODES, WAYS AND MEANS

                    AND RULES.  I NOTE THESE COMMITTEES WILL PRODUCE AN A-CALENDAR

                    WHICH WE MAY TAKE UP THIS MORNING INTO THE AFTERNOON, AS WELL.

                                 BEFORE I ASK FOR ANY INTRODUCTIONS AND HOUSEKEEPING,

                    MR. SPEAKER, LET ME NOTE, AGAIN, AS I HAVE OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS,

                    WE ARE IN THE FINAL DAYS OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.  SO, THE SPEED WITH

                    WHICH WE CAN MOVE AND GET EVERYONE'S WORK CONCLUDED WILL DEPEND IN

                    PART ON HOW MUCH MEMBERS STAY IN OR AROUND THE CHAMBERS AND WE

                    CAN ACCESS THEM FOR VOTES AND CONTINUE TO MOVE OUR SESSION FORWARD.

                    SO, I DO WANT TO THANK PEOPLE IN ADVANCE FOR THEIR COOPERATION AND

                    THEIR PATIENCE AS WE WORK THROUGH OUR FINAL DAYS, AND HOPE TODAY WILL

                    BE A VERY SUCCESSFUL DAY IN THAT REGARD.

                                 WITH THAT SAID, MR. SPEAKER, I NOTE WE HAVE

                    INTRODUCTIONS.  IF WE HAVE HOUSEKEEPING, AS WELL, THIS WOULD BE THE

                                          3



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    APPROPRIATE TIME TO TAKE THOSE UP.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  FIRST,

                    INTRODUCTIONS.

                                 MR. GOODELL FOR THE PURPOSES OF A (SIC) INTRODUCTION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO INTERRUPT OUR PROCEEDINGS FOR A SPECIAL

                    INTRODUCTION.  TODAY, WE HAVE WITH US A VERY SPECIAL GUEST.  HE USED TO

                    BE THE FLOOR LEADER FOR THE REPUBLICAN ASSEMBLY.  I THINK ALL OF US

                    WOULD BE DELIGHTED IF YOU WERE STILL THE FLOOR LEADER, MYSELF INCLUDED.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 AND I CAN ONLY SPEAK THIS FAST FOR A VERY LIMITED TIME,

                    BUT IF YOU WOULD PLEASE EXTEND THE GREETINGS TO OUR FORMER COLLEAGUE, A

                    GREAT ASSEMBLYMAN, TOM MCKEVITT.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. GOODELL, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, TOM, WE WELCOME

                    YOU BACK TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE EXTEND TO YOU, AS

                    ALWAYS PART OF THE FAMILY, THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR AND THE APPLAUSE

                    THAT YOU GOT IS IN NO SMALL MEASURE TO THE JOY WE HAVE BECAUSE YOU

                    HAVE JOINED US, AND THE FACT THAT MR. GOODELL HAS SHOWN US HOW GREAT

                    YOU REALLY WERE.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 AGAIN, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.  WE -- WE HOPE YOU

                    WILL COME BACK AND VISIT US OFTEN.  THANK YOU.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                          4



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I

                    DON'T WANT TO VIOLATE THE ASSEMBLY RULES BY HELPING TO ADD TO AN

                    INTRODUCTION, BUT I'M ALSO DELIGHTED TO SEE MY DEAR FRIEND WHO I HAD

                    THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH WHEN HE WAS IN MR. GOODELL'S SEAT.  SO,

                    WELCOME BACK, TOM.

                                 AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF FAMILY

                    MEMBERS HERE TODAY.  IT ALWAYS, I THINK, BEARS REPEATING THAT WHEN

                    YOU'RE A MEMBER HERE, YOUR FAMILY IS PART OF OUR FAMILY AND WE'RE

                    DELIGHTED TO HAVE MEMBERS OF THAT FAMILY HERE TODAY.  THEY ARE NOT

                    STRANGERS TO THIS CHAMBER.  WE ARE DELIGHTED TO SEE THE CRESPO FAMILY

                    HERE.  HIS BEAUTIFUL WIFE, VERNA, AND HIS TWO ADORABLE CHILDREN, RAQUEL

                    AND GRACIELA, RAQUEL BEING FIVE YEARS OLD, GRACIELA IS FOUR.  I THINK

                    WHEN THEY STARTED COMING HERE THEY WERE LITERALLY BABIES AND THEY ARE

                    BEAUTIFUL, SUCH A WONDERFUL FAMILY AND I KNOW THAT THEY ARE THE BETTER

                    PARTS OF THE FAMILY.  WE'RE STUCK WITH MR. CRESPO, BUT THOSE TWO

                    BEAUTIFUL FACES, WE'RE DELIGHTED TO ALWAYS HAVE THEM IN THE CHAMBER

                    TO VISIT WITH THEIR FRIENDS AND TO WATCH THEM GROW INTO HEALTHY YOUNG,

                    YOUNG FAMILY.  SO, PLEASE EXTEND ALL THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE TO

                    OUR FRIENDS, THE CRESPO FAMILY.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. MORELLE, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME THE

                    CRESPO FAMILY HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE HAVE

                    MEMORIES OF YOU BEFORE YOU HAVE MEMORIES, AND SO WE'RE JUST SO

                                          5



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    PLEASED THAT YOU'RE HERE.  WHAT A GORGEOUS FAMILY.  CONTINUE TO BE

                    SUPPORTIVE AND KEEP HIM SHINING AND BRIGHT, AND I KNOW YOU DO THAT.

                    THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MR. ASHBY FOR AN INTRODUCTION.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU.  I'D LIKE TO

                    INTRODUCE STUDENTS FROM MY DISTRICT FROM THE SCHOOL OF CHATHAM.

                    PARENTS AND TEACHERS HAVE ACCOMPANIED THEM HERE, AND I THINK WE

                    WERE ALL GRATEFUL FOR THEIR HELP ON THE PLEDGE THIS MORNING.  AND I

                    KNOW THAT THEY'RE ANXIOUS TO GET ON WITH THEIR TOUR AND LEARN AND HELP

                    US REMEMBER FLAG DAY TODAY, AS WELL.  SO IF YOU COULD PLEASE EXTEND

                    TO THEM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE, I'D APPRECIATE IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. ASHBY, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME THIS

                    TREMENDOUS CLASS OF STUDENTS AND THEIR ADVISORS AND PARENTS HERE TO THE

                    NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE

                    FLOOR.  THANK YOU FOR COMING AND SHARING THIS MORNING WITH US.  IT

                    DOES ENHANCE THIS CHAMBER WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE ARE HERE WATCHING AND

                    BEING A PART OF OUR PROCEEDINGS, AND YOUR VOICES ARE ALWAYS SO STRONG

                    AND INSPIRING.  THANK YOU SO MUCH.  CONTINUE YOUR GREAT EDUCATION.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I AM

                    ALSO PRIVILEGED TO INTRODUCE ANOTHER DEAR COLLEAGUE'S FAMILY WHO HAVE

                                          6



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    VENTURED UP TO ALBANY TODAY TO OBSERVE OUR PROCEEDINGS.  MS.

                    HYNDMAN'S FAMILY HAS JOINED US AND WE'RE SO EXCITED TO HAVE THEM.

                    FIRST OF ALL, HER YOUNGEST DAUGHTER, NYLA, WHO IS ABOUT TO LEAVE SECOND

                    GRADE AND MOVE TO THIRD.  SHE'S ALSO JOINED BY HER NIECE, KEIRA, AND HER

                    MOM AND DAD.  AND I DO NOTE THAT STANLEY AND YVONNE HYNDMAN ARE

                    HERE TO VISIT WITH US AND I HAVE BEEN ENCOURAGING AND ASKING MS.

                    HYNDMAN TO BRING HER MOM BECAUSE WE HAD SUCH A GREAT TIME AT THE

                    CAUCUS MEETING EARLIER THIS YEAR.  AND SHE FINALLY BROKE DOWN AND

                    BROUGHT HER UP SO I COULD VISIT WITH HER, BUT I'M SO EXCITED THAT THEY'RE

                    IN THE CHAMBER.  AND AS -- AS I INDICATED, WE'RE ALWAYS SO HAPPY WHEN

                    MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILIES COME UP AND SPEND TIME WITH US AND WE WANT

                    TO MAKE SURE THAT WE EXTEND ALL THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO MS.

                    HYNDMAN'S BEAUTIFUL FAMILY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. MORELLE, THE SPEAKER, ALL THE MEMBERS FROM QUEENS, ALL OF OUR

                    MEMBERS, WE WELCOME THE HYNDMAN FAMILY HERE TO THE NEW YORK

                    STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  AS

                    FAMILY, WE ARE ALWAYS DELIGHTED THAT YOU GET TO SHARE WITH US IN HER

                    EXTENDED FAMILY, BECAUSE WE ARE FAMILY HERE, AND COME TO THE -- AND

                    WATCH THESE PROCEEDINGS AND WATCH HER AS SHE DOES WHAT HAS BEEN --

                    SHE HAS BEEN ELECTED TO DO, WHICH IS REPRESENT HER DISTRICT.  THANK YOU

                    SO VERY MUCH.  THANK YOU FOR THE SUPPORT THAT YOU PROVIDE.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE

                                          7



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    TO BEGIN WITH RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3 OF THE MAIN CALENDAR, BEGINNING


                    WITH ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1370 BY MRS. GUNTHER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1370, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MRS. GUNTHER.  LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING

                    GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 11-15, 2018 AS

                    MENINGITIS B AWARENESS WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1371, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. LUPARDO.  LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING

                    GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 15, 2018 AS ELDER

                    ABUSE AWARENESS DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1372, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MR. RA.  LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING

                    GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE -- JULY 15, 2018 AS PET

                    FIRE SAFETY DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 7 -- 1373,

                    RULES AT THE REQUEST OF MS. MALLIOTAKIS.  LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION

                                          8



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 21,

                    2018 AS YOGA DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE

                    OBSERVANCE OF INTERNATIONAL DAY OF YOGA.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1374, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MR. DENDEKKER.  LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION

                    MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2018 AS

                    POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS INJURY AWARENESS MONTH, AND JUNE 27, 2018 AS

                    POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS INJURY AWARENESS DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1375, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MR. MURRAY.  LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING

                    GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 30, 2018 AS

                    ARTHROGRYPOSIS AWARENESS DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.

                                 WE DO HAVE HOUSEKEEPING THIS MORNING.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. MOSLEY, PAGE 8, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 71, BILL NO. 10829-A, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                          9



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 ON A MOTION BY MRS. BARRETT, PAGE 11, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 131, BILL NO. 10836-A, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE

                    TO BEGIN CONSENTING ON PAGE 11 OF THE MAIN CALENDAR, STARTING WITH

                    RULES REPORT NO. 143 BY MS. ROSENTHAL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00558-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 143, L. ROSENTHAL, DINOWITZ, M. G. MILLER, MOSLEY, COOK,

                    HOOPER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    NON-PREFERENTIAL OPPORTUNITY FOR USE OF AMENITIES IN CERTAIN BUILDINGS

                    AND APARTMENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01093, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 144, DINOWITZ, GOTTFRIED, L. ROSENTHAL, MOSLEY, PICHARDO, COOK,

                    CRESPO, BENEDETTO, DAVILA, BICHOTTE, JOYNER, WALKER, RODRIGUEZ,

                    BLAKE, BARRON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY

                    OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO SURCHARGES FOR THE INSTALLATION OR USE OF

                    CERTAIN APPLIANCES IN HOUSING ACCOMMODATIONS SUBJECT TO RENT CONTROL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01568, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 145, SKOUFIS, TITONE, CUSICK, MORELLE, CYMBROWITZ, COLTON,

                    NOLAN, SOLAGES, SANTABARBARA, PERRY, RAMOS, LUPARDO, ARROYO,

                    HOOPER, STIRPE, STECK, OTIS, MALLIOTAKIS, WEINSTEIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO STANDARDS FOR PROMPT INVESTIGATION

                                         10



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    AND SETTLEMENT OF CLAIMS ARISING FROM STATES OF EMERGENCY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02333, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 146, THIELE, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING THE USE OF

                    PENTACHLOROPHENOL WITH REGARD TO NEW OR EXISTING TRANSMISSION UTILITY

                    POLES OR FACILITIES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02874-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 147, GALEF, STEC, MCDONALD, ABINANTI, MAGNARELLI,

                    SEAWRIGHT, RIVERA, HYNDMAN, WILLIAMS, D'URSO, HOOPER, COOK,

                    STIRPE, ERRIGO, BLAKE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW

                    AND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE TAXATION OF PROPERTY

                    OWNED BY A COOPERATIVE CORPORATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02923-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 148, PERRY, SKOUFIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND

                    TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A DISTINCTIVE "JAMAICAN

                    BOBSLED TEAM" NUMBER PLATE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    PERRY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         11



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M

                    DELIGHTED TO NOTE THAT THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM DISTINCTIVE PLATES

                    REPRESENTS OUR FIRST VOTE OF THE DAY, AND I'M SURE NO ONE WANTS TO MISS

                    THE OPPORTUNITY TO CAST THEIR VOTE ON THIS, SO I'D REMIND ANY MEMBER

                    WHOSE NOT IN THE CHAMBERS TO MAKE THEIR WAY.  THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE

                    WITH US, PLEASE CAST YOUR FIRST VOTE OF THE DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  FIRST VOTE OF THE DAY,

                    LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.  IF YOU ARE IN YOUR SEATS, PLEASE VOTE NOW.  IF

                    YOU ARE IN THE SOUND OF OUR VOICE, PLEASE PROCEED TO THE CHAMBER AND

                    CAST YOUR BALLOT.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02954-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 149, MCDONALD, BLAKE, MORINELLO, BRABENEC, M. G.

                    MILLER, ORTIZ.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO AUTHORIZING EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS TO PAY THE SALARIES AND

                    COMPENSATION OF SCHOOL CROSSING GUARDS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         12



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. MONTESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  YOU

                    KNOW, I -- I LOOKED AT THIS BILL AND -- AND THE ISSUES SURROUNDING IT.

                    YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY PAYS IN THEIR TAXES A PORTION TO THE POLICE

                    DEPARTMENTS THAT COVER THEIR AREA THAT PROVIDE SCHOOL CROSSING GUARDS,

                    ESPECIALLY HOME DOWN (SIC) IN NASSAU COUNTY - I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE

                    OTHER COUNTIES - WE PAY A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF TAX TO THE POLICE

                    DEPARTMENT TO PROVIDE SCHOOL CROSSING GUARDS, WHICH THEY DO.  IN ORDER

                    TO NOW HAVE TO HAVE SCHOOLS, EVEN IF THEY CHOOSE TO OR NOT CHOOSE TO,

                    PUT THEM IN THE SPOT TO HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE SCHOOL CROSSING

                    GUARDS, AS FAR AS THEIR SALARY AND BENEFITS I THINK PUTS THEM IN AN

                    AWKWARD POSITION.  IT'S AN OBLIGATION OF THE LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT

                    DEPARTMENTS TO PROVIDE THESE SAFETY MEASURES TO THE SCHOOLS AT THEIR

                    CROSSINGS.  SO, I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S A NECESSARY BURDEN THAT WE SHIFT TO

                    THE SCHOOLS, BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A COST-SAVINGS TO ANYONE.  SO,

                    UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MONTESANO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03545-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 151, PERRY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW,

                                         13



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE CHANCE TO HELP NOTIFICATION ACT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03830-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 152, L. ROSENTHAL.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE COOPERATIVE

                    CORPORATIONS LAW AND THE NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO REQUIRING THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF RESIDENTIAL COOPERATIVE

                    CORPORATIONS AND NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATIONS TO PROVIDE TENANTS WITH

                    CHANGES TO THE BY-LAWS IN WRITING WITHIN 10 DAYS OF ADOPTION; IN

                    RELATION TO NOTIFICATION TO TENANTS OF CHANGES AFFECTING OCCUPANCY OR

                    THE RULES OF THE BUILDING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05106, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 153, CRESPO, RAMOS, PICHARDO, RODRIGUEZ, RIVERA, ARROYO,

                    MCDONOUGH, HOOPER, RAIA, MURRAY, SIMON, KIM, MONTESANO,

                    MOSLEY, DICKENS, COLTON, WEPRIN, COOK, BARRON, DAVILA, WALLACE.  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW AND THE BANKING LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO PROHIBITING A CONSUMER REPORTING AGENCY OR LENDER FROM

                    USING CERTAIN INFORMATION TO DETERMINE AN INDIVIDUAL'S CREDIT

                    WORTHINESS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                         14



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05270-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 154, MORELLE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO CERTAIN RENTAL VEHICLE PROTECTIONS; TO AMEND CHAPTER 656

                    OF THE LAWS OF 2002 AMENDING THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW RELATING TO

                    RENTAL VEHICLE PROTECTIONS, IN RELATION TO MAKING SUCH PROVISIONS

                    PERMANENT; TO AMEND A CHAPTER OF THE LAWS OF 2018, AMENDING

                    CHAPTER 656 OF THE LAWS OF 2002 AMENDING THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW

                    RELATING TO RENTAL VEHICLE PROTECTIONS, AS PROPOSED IN LEGISLATIVE BILLS

                    NUMBERS S. 8317 AND A. 11097, IN RELATION TO MAKING SUCH PROVISIONS

                    PERMANENT; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON

                    EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    MORELLE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 THE CLERK:  BILL NO. A05826-A, RULES REPORT NO.

                    155, JAFFEE, ENGLEBRIGHT, L. ROSENTHAL, TITONE, SIMON, DAVILA, ORTIZ,

                                         15



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WEPRIN, STECK, COOK, D'URSO, CRESPO, MOSLEY, DE LA ROSA, GOTTFRIED,

                    FAHY, SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PENAL LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    REQUIRING SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOLS MANUFACTURED OR DELIVERED TO ANY

                    LICENSED DEALER IN THIS STATE TO BE CAPABLE OF MICROSTAMPING

                    AMMUNITION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06868-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 157, DICKENS, ORTIZ.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PARKS,

                    RECREATION AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR

                    THE PEOPLE'S HISTORY PROJECT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07237-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 158, CUSICK, PICHARDO, ABINANTI, FAHY.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PERMITTING CERTAIN PHYSICIANS TO

                    PRACTICE MEDICINE IN NEW YORK STATE IF THEY ARE LICENSED TO PRACTICE IN

                    ANOTHER STATE OR TERRITORY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                                         16



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    CUSICK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07501-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 159, ABBATE, HOOPER.  AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE PORT

                    AUTHORITY OF NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY TO OFFER A CERTAIN RETIREMENT

                    OPTION TO PORT AUTHORITY POLICE OFFICERS EDDY STELTER, SCARLET M.

                    COOPER, WILLIAM A. MUDRY, JOHN F. FITZPATRICK, AND HUGH A. JOHNSON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    ABBATE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         17



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07689-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 160, L. ROSENTHAL, D'URSO, THIELE, SKOUFIS, CUSICK,

                    JOYNER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PROHIBITED PRACTICES BY PROVIDERS OF SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER SERVICES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08205-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 161, MCDONALD, JENNE, LUPARDO, CRESPO, D'URSO,

                    MONTESANO, RAIA, CROUCH, WOERNER, STECK, JONES.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO REGULATORY FINES FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08375-A, RULES

                                         18



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    REPORT NO. 162, ABBATE, PALUMBO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT

                    AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE CERTIFICATION OF A DEPUTY

                    SHERIFF AS A POLICE OFFICER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. ABBATE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE

                    THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. -- MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING A BRIEF INTERRUPTION SO WE CAN ACKNOWLEDGE SEVERAL DOZEN

                    YOUNG PEOPLE WHO HAVE JOINED US IN THE BACK OF THE CHAMBER AS

                    GUESTS OF MR. BRINDISI AND MR. MILLER.  THEY ARE FROM ONEIDA COUNTY,

                    AND THEY ARE SIXTH GRADE STUDENTS AT THE ER HUGHES ELEMENTARY

                    SCHOOL, WHICH IS IN THE NEW HARTFORD SCHOOL DISTRICT.  AND AS A

                    FORMER UTICAN BY BIRTH, I'M ALWAYS HAPPY TO SEE FRIENDS FROM ONEIDA

                    COUNTY, BUT WE'RE DELIGHTED TO HAVE THESE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE

                    CHAMBER.  I DO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE HAVE A NUMBER OF THEIR

                    TEACHERS HERE:  MR. MARTIN, MRS. ROBERTS, MRS. FORNINO AND MS.

                                         19



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    ANGEL.  AND I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THERE ARE ALSO TWO OTHER

                    MEMBERS OF THIS DELEGATION THAT I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE.  FIRST OF ALL,

                    MR. BRINDISI'S SISTER, EVA PEARLMAN, WHO IS A CHAPERONE AND A PARENT,

                    AS WELL AS HIS NEPHEW, JEREMY PEARLMAN.  AND WE'RE ALWAYS,

                    OBVIOUSLY, DELIGHTED TO HAVE ALL OF THEM IN THE CHAMBER, AND

                    PARTICULARLY THOSE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE EXTENDED FAMILY HERE.  I

                    HOPE THESE YOUNG PEOPLE ENJOY THEIR TIME WITH US AND OBSERVE THE

                    PROCEEDINGS AND GO HOME AND TELL THEIR FRIENDS HOW MUCH THEY LEARNED

                    WHEN THEY WERE IN THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  IF YOU'D PLEASE

                    EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE HOUSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. BRINDISI, MR. BRIAN MILLER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS,

                    WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE EXTEND TO

                    YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  YOU'RE A FINE GROUP OF LOOKING SIXTH

                    GRADERS.  WE THANK YOU FOR VISITING WITH US AND YOUR TEACHERS AND

                    SUPERVISORS WHO HAVE COME WITH YOU.  CONTINUE TO PURSUE YOUR

                    EDUCATION.  WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT SUMMER AND WILL DO EXCELLENT IN

                    THE NEXT YEAR.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.  AND TO THE

                    BRINDISI FAMILY, THANK YOU.  THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR -- YOUR

                    RELATIVE WITH US.  HE IS A TREASURE HERE IN THE NEW YORK STATE

                    ASSEMBLY AND WE ARE ALWAYS PLEASED TO HAVE HIS FAMILY HERE WITH US.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08393-A, RULES

                                         20



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    REPORT NO. 163, L. ROSENTHAL.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO VOTER NOTIFICATION OF SPECIAL ELECTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D

                    LIKE TO TAKE UP, OFF THE DEBATE LIST, CALENDAR NO. 946 BY MR. GOTTFRIED,

                    WHICH IS ON PAGE 97 OF THE MAIN CALENDAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04738-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 946, GOTTFRIED, ABINANTI, BARRON, BENEDETTO, BICHOTTE, BLAKE,

                    BRONSON, CARROLL, COLTON, COOK, CRESPO, CYMBROWITZ, DILAN,

                    DINOWITZ, ENGLEBRIGHT, GANTT, HIKIND, HUNTER, HYNDMAN, JAFFEE,

                    JENNE, JOYNER, KIM, LAVINE, LIFTON, LUPARDO, M. G. MILLER, MOSLEY,

                    PAULIN, PEOPLES-STOKES, PERRY, PICHARDO, RAMOS, RICHARDSON, RIVERA,

                    RODRIGUEZ, L. ROSENTHAL, SEAWRIGHT, SIMOTAS, STECK, STIRPE, THIELE,

                    TITONE, TITUS, WALKER, WEINSTEIN, WEPRIN, DE LA ROSA, D'URSO,

                    JEAN-PIERRE, WRIGHT, WILLIAMS, VANEL, SOLAGES, WALLACE, BARRETT,

                    PHEFFER AMATO, NIOU, ORTIZ, DICKENS, TAYLOR, PELLEGRINO, EPSTEIN,

                                         21



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    SIMON, FERNANDEZ, ESPINAL.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW

                    AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE "NEW YORK

                    HEALTH ACT" AND TO ESTABLISHING NEW YORK HEALTH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED, MR. GOTTFRIED, BUT BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO DO THAT, WHY

                    DON'T WE GET A LITTLE ORDER IN THE HOUSE.  WE ARE ON DEBATE, LADIES AND

                    GENTLEMEN.  THAT MEANS THAT WE NEED QUIET.  IF YOU HAVE

                    CONVERSATIONS, PLEASE TAKE THEM OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE.  MEMBERS

                    SHOULD BE IN THEIR SEATS.  MEMBERS SHOULD BE IN THEIR SEATS, OR IF YOU

                    NEED TO CONFER, PLEASE TAKE IT OUTSIDE THE BAR OF THE ASSEMBLY.

                                 WE'RE ALMOST THERE.  YOU CAN MAKE THIS A LONG DAY,

                    LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IF YOU DON'T COOPERATE.  I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO

                    BE HERE 'TIL MIDNIGHT.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 PROCEED, MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  YOU

                    KNOW, I START WITH A BASIC PRINCIPLE THAT NO NEW YORKER SHOULD HAVE TO

                    GO WITHOUT HEALTH CARE OR SUFFER FINANCIALLY TO GET IT.  THAT'S NOT,

                    UNFORTUNATELY, THE WORLD WE LIVE IN.  BUT IT IS CLEAR THAT THE MOST

                    PRACTICAL AND THE MOST COST-EFFECTIVE WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT, AND I WOULD

                    SAY THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT IS BY TAKING INSURANCE COMPANIES OUT

                    OF THE PICTURE AND ENACTING WHAT YOU COULD CALL IMPROVED MEDICARE FOR

                    ALL, SINGLE-PAYER, WHAT HAVE YOU.  YOU KNOW, WASHINGTON IS NOT ABOUT

                    TO DO THAT, BUT NEW YORK STATE CAN.

                                 ALMOST EVERY PROBLEM THAT WE FACE IN HEALTH AND

                                         22



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    HEALTH CARE, WHETHER AS PATIENTS OR HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS OR EMPLOYERS

                    OR TAXPAYERS IS MADE WORSE AND HARDER TO SOLVE BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE

                    ORGANIZE AND PAY FOR HEALTH CARE.  IT KEEPS US FROM TAKING CONTROL OF

                    OUR HEALTH CARE.  IT KEEPS FROM TAKING REAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR HEALTH

                    CARE.  NOW, THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT MADE A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS, BUT

                    ITS FUNDAMENTAL FLAW IS THAT IT LEAVES US IN THE HANDS OF INSURANCE

                    COMPANIES.  AND THAT MEANS EVER-RISING PREMIUMS, MORE AND MORE

                    HEALTH PLANS WITH EVER-RISING DEDUCTIBLES AND CO-PAYS, AND MORE AND

                    MORE RESTRICTED PROVIDER NETWORKS AND HIGHER AND HIGHER

                    OUT-OF-NETWORK CHARGES, COSTS THAT ARE DISTRIBUTED WITHOUT ANY REGARD

                    FOR ABILITY TO PAY AND COSTS THAT ARE REAL OBSTACLES TO CARE AND TO FAMILY

                    FINANCIAL STABILITY.

                                 IN A GIVEN YEAR, A-THIRD OF HOUSEHOLDS, A-THIRD OF

                    HOUSEHOLDS THAT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE REPORT HAVING AT LEAST ONE

                    FAMILY MEMBER WHO WENT WITHOUT HEALTH CARE THAT YEAR BECAUSE OF COST

                    AND, IN MOST CASES, IT WAS FOR A SERIOUS CONDITION.  THE NEW YORK

                    STATE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION AND FINANCE, IN THEIR ANALYSIS OF WHO

                    TAKES THE -- THE MEDICAL COST DEDUCTION ON THEIR TAXES FOUND THAT

                    140,000 NEW YORK TAXPAYERS, 140,000 NEW YORK TAXPAYERS SPENT

                    MORE THAN HALF THEIR INCOME IN ONE YEAR ON MEDICAL EXPENSES, AND

                    96,000 NEW YORKERS SPENT MORE THAN 100 PERCENT OF THEIR INCOME ON

                    HEALTH CARE.  THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.  AND WE HAVE A SOCIETY WHERE

                    MORE AND MORE EMPLOYERS, WHICH IS WHERE MOST OF US GET OUR HEALTH

                    COVERAGE, ARE EITHER SHIFTING MORE AND MORE OF THE COST OF THAT

                    COVERAGE TO THE WORKERS WHO CAN LEAST AFFORD IT, OR DROPPING IT ENTIRELY.

                                         23



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 IT IS A SYSTEM WITH BUILT-IN ENORMOUS WASTEFUL COSTS.

                    INSURANCE COMPANIES SPEND 15 PERCENT OR MORE OF EVERY PREMIUM

                    DOLLAR ON ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS AND MARKETING AND PROFIT, ALL COSTS THAT

                    DO NOTHING TO MAKE ANYBODY HEALTHIER.  HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS, DOCTORS,

                    HOSPITALS, PHYSICAL THERAPISTS SPEND FIVE TIMES WHAT THEIR COUNTERPARTS

                    IN CANADA DO ON ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS TO FIGHT WITH INSURANCE

                    COMPANIES, AND IT'S ABOUT 20 TO 25 PERCENT OF THE HEALTH CARE DOLLAR.

                                 NEW YORK CAN AND MUST DO BETTER, AND THAT'S WHAT THE

                    NEW YORK HEALTH ACT IS ALL ABOUT.  IT WOULD PROVIDE UNIVERSAL

                    COMPLETE HEALTH COVERAGE TO EVERY NEW YORKER, ALL 20 MILLION OF US.

                    IT WOULD GUARANTEE COMPLETE CHOICE OF DOCTOR AND HOSPITAL AND OTHER

                    HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS.  THERE WOULD BE NO RESTRICTED PROVIDER NETWORK

                    AND, THEREFORE, NO OUT-OF-NETWORK CHARGES.  THERE WOULD BE NO

                    PREMIUM, DEDUCTIBLE OR CO-PAYS; INSTEAD, THE SYSTEM WOULD BE FUNDED

                    BY BROAD-BASED TAXES BASED ON ABILITY TO PAY.  IT MEANS WE WOULD BE

                    ENDING THE REGRESSIVE TAX THAT WE NOW PAY TO INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT

                    IS BOTH REGRESSIVE, NOT BASED ON ABILITY TO PAY, AND DRAMATICALLY HIGHER

                    THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.  NEW YORKERS WOULD BE SPENDING ON THE WHOLE

                    $45 BILLION LESS ON HEALTH CARE AND HEALTH COVERAGE THAN WE DO TODAY.

                    AND, AS I SAID, IT WOULD BE FUNDED FAIRLY THROUGH A BROAD-BASED TAX,

                    PROGRESSIVELY GRADUATED SO THE HIGHER PARTS OF YOUR SALARY OR YOUR

                    INCOME WOULD BE TAXED AT A HIGHER RATE THAN THE LOWER PART OF YOUR

                    SALARY OR INCOME, AND IT WOULD BE A TAX APPLIED BOTH TO PAYROLL INCOME

                    AND TO CURRENTLY TAXABLE NON-PAYROLL INCOME LIKE DIVIDENDS AND -- AND

                    CAPITAL GAINS.  NINETY-EIGHT PERCENT OF HOUSEHOLDS WOULD BE SPENDING

                                         24



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    LESS THAN THEY ARE TODAY.

                                 HOW DOES THIS ARITHMETIC WORK?  FIRST OF ALL, WE TAKE

                    ABOUT $71 BILLION IN SAVINGS FOR INSURANCE COMPANY COSTS THAT WE

                    WOULD BE AVOIDING, PROVIDER COSTS THAT WE WOULD BE AVOIDING, HAVING

                    MORE POWER TO NEGOTIATE PRICES DOWN WITH DRUG COMPANIES.  THERE

                    WOULD BE SOME INCREASED COSTS, ABOUT $26 BILLION --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RAIA, WHY DO

                    YOU RAISE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I WILL NOT YIELD TO A QUESTION AT

                    THIS TIME, I WILL YIELD AT THE END.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. -- YOU HAVE

                    EXPIRED THE TIME THAT YOU HAVE FOR EXPLAINING A VOTE -- OF EXPLAINING

                    THE BILL.  WE DO HAVE A TIME FOR THAT.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  EXCUSE ME?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  IF YOU WOULD WRAP

                    UP.  I SAID THE TIME THAT ALLOWED TO EXPLAIN A VOTE HAS EXPIRED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  OKAY.  THEN I WILL SIT DOWN AND

                    BE HAPPY TO YIELD TO QUESTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. RAIA.

                                 MR. RAIA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M STARTING

                    MY CLOCK NOW.  WILL MR. -- CHAIRMAN GOTTFRIED YIELD FOR MANY

                    QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                         25



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. RAIA:  GOOD MORNING, RICHARD.  THANK YOU

                    VERY MUCH.  WE'VE BEEN AT THIS MANY TIMES OVER SO I'M JUST GOING TO

                    JUMP RIGHT IN.  YOU DESCRIBED WHAT OBVIOUSLY SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT

                    PANACEA.  CAN YOU TELL ME WHO IS PROVIDING ALL THE NUMBERS THAT YOUR

                    LEGISLATION IS BASED UPON?  IS THERE ONE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL, A

                    PROFESSOR, I GUESS GERALD BENJAMIN -- NOT GERALD BENJAMIN, EXCUSE

                    ME; GERALD FRIEDMAN FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS.  HE'S

                    REALLY THE SOLE SOURCE OF WHERE YOU'RE GETTING ALL YOUR PROJECTIONS

                    FROM, CORRECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  NO.

                                 MR. RAIA:  OH, OKAY.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THE CALCULATIONS ARE BASED -- I

                    MEAN, HE PULLED A LOT OF NUMBERS -- GERRY FRIEDMAN WHO IS THE CHAIR

                    OF THE ECONOMICS DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS

                    AMHERST WHO HAS STUDIED THIS ISSUE VERY EXTENSIVELY, PULLED TOGETHER A

                    LOT OF NUMBERS FROM A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT SOURCES, WELL-DOCUMENTED

                    STATISTICS.  WE'VE LOOKED, THOUGH, AT THOSE STATISTICS DIRECTLY ON OUR

                    OWN, NOT JUST RELYING ON -- ON HIS REPORT.  THERE HAVE BEEN A VARIETY OF

                    ANALYSES BY DIFFERENT CONSULTING FIRMS OVER THE YEARS OF SINGLE-PAYER

                    PROPOSALS IN VARIOUS STATES AND, BY AND LARGE, THEY ALL SHOW SUBSTANTIAL

                    SAVINGS.  SOME SHOW THAT A PLAN WOULD BREAK EVEN.  THEY ALL SHOW THAT

                    THERE IS NO WAY TO ACHIEVE UNIVERSAL COVERAGE THAT IS -- THAT IS

                    ANYWHERE NEAR AS COST-EFFECTIVE AS A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM.

                                         26



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. RAIA:  WELL, OBVIOUSLY THE ECONOMIST THAT

                    YOU'RE RELYING ON FOR MANY OF YOUR ESTIMATES HAS RECEIVED QUITE A BIT OF

                    CRITICISM FROM HIS PEERS.  I'M SURE YOU'VE SEEN THE LETTER FROM THE PAST

                    FOUR CHAIRS OF THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS TO PRESIDENTS

                    CLINTON AND OBAMA.  THEY CALL FRIEDMAN'S CLAIMS ABOUT SINGLE-PAYER,

                    QUOTE/UNQUOTE "EXTREME" AND NOTE THAT QUOTE/UNQUOTE "NO CREDIBLE

                    ECONOMIC EVIDENCE SUPPORTS HIS CLAIMS."

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL --

                                 MR. RAIA:  IN FACT, NOBEL PRIZE-WINNING ECONOMIST

                    PAUL KRUGMAN CALLED FRIEDMAN'S ANALYTICAL SKILLS QUOTE/UNQUOTE

                    "HORRIFYING" AND STATES THAT QUOTE/UNQUOTE "GOOD IDEAS DON'T NEED TO BE

                    SOLD WITH FAIRY DUST."

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, SOME OF THAT

                    CRITICISM WAS RAISED IN THE CONTEXT OF ECONOMISTS WHO WERE CLOSELY

                    TIED TO THE OBAMA HEALTH PLAN AND TO HILLARY CLINTON WHO WERE

                    ATTACKING FRIEDMAN BECAUSE HE WAS DEFENDING NOT THIS BILL, BUT BERNIE

                    SANDERS' PROPOSAL.  THAT'S NUMBER ONE.  AND, NUMBER TWO, THE BULK OF

                    THE ATTACKS ON FRIEDMAN IN THAT CONTEXT WERE DIRECTED AT HIS ESTIMATES

                    OF NATIONAL ECONOMIC GROWTH AND HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT THE FINANCING

                    OF THE SANDERS PLAN.  NONE OF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE NEW

                    YORK HEALTH ACT NUMBERS.  WE DON'T GET TO DISCUSSING ECONOMIC

                    GROWTH AND, AGAIN, THE NUMBERS THAT ARE IN FRIEDMAN'S REPORT ARE NOT

                    HIS NUMBERS, THEY ARE -- THEY ARE NUMBERS FROM A VARIETY OF UNDISPUTED

                    SOURCES.

                                 FOR EXAMPLE, THE FACT THAT -- THAT MEDICARE, TRADITIONAL

                                         27



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    MEDICARE RUNS ON ABOUT A 2 PERCENT ADMINISTRATIVE COST AND THAT

                    INSURANCE COMPANIES SPEND 15 TO 20 PERCENT ON ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS IN

                    MARKETING AND PROFIT.  THOSE BASIC NUMBERS ARE ABSOLUTELY SOUND AND

                    IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO DISCUSSING SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE

                    CRITICIZED SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS, I'D BE HAPPY TO.

                                 MR. RAIA:  WE CAN DO THAT AT ANOTHER TIME.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  BUT THAT'S THE CORE QUESTION AND I

                    DON'T KNOW -- I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY EFFECTIVE REFUTATION OF THOSE NUMBERS.

                                 MR. RAIA:  WELL, EVEN MR. FRIEDMAN IS QUOTED AS

                    SAYING HE HAS A UNIQUE WAY OR A DIFFERENT WAY OF LOOKING AT THE WORLD,

                    RIGHT?  THAT WAS QUOTED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, WE ALL HAVE A UNIQUE WAY

                    OF LOOKING AT THE WORLD.  THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THE NUMBERS ABOUT

                    THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS AND THE SAVINGS AND THE INCREASED CARE,

                    INCREASED UTILIZATION AND THE LIKE, THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THOSE

                    NUMBERS ARE SOUND.  WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING GERRY FRIEDMAN'S OUTLOOK ON

                    LIFE, WE'RE DISCUSSING THE NUMBERS.  AND IF UNDER THE LAW INSURANCE

                    COMPANIES ARE ENTITLED TO CHARGE 15 TO 20 PERCENT OF THE PREMIUM TO

                    BE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS AND MARKETING AND -- AND -- AND PROFIT,

                    HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH HEALTH CARE, SINCE EVERY INSURANCE COMPANY

                    USES UP THAT ENTIRE AMOUNT, NO ONE'S EVER HEARD OF AN INSURANCE

                    COMPANY THAT DIDN'T, CERTAINLY NOT IN THIS STATE.  THOSE NUMBERS ARE

                    SOUND.

                                 MR. RAIA:  I BELIEVE -- WHAT'S -- THE TOTAL COST OF THIS

                    IS WHAT, $255 BILLION?

                                         28



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  NO.  WE CURRENTLY SPEND ABOUT

                    $280 BILLION OR WILL NEXT YEAR, ABOUT $280 BILLION ON HEALTH CARE IN

                    NEW YORK, FROM ALL SOURCES.  UNDER THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT, THAT

                    NUMBER WOULD BE TAKEN DOWN DRAMATICALLY FOR NET SAVINGS OF $45

                    BILLION.

                                 MR. RAIA:  YEAH, BUT YOU'RE STILL LOOKING AT $91

                    BILLION IN ADDITIONAL REVENUE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YOU'RE LOOKING AT $91 BILLION AS

                    AN ALTERNATIVE TO $135 BILLION IN PREMIUMS, DEDUCTIBLES AND CO-PAYS

                    AND OUT-OF-NETWORK CHARGES.  YOU CAN'T LOOK AT THE NUMBER IN

                    ISOLATION; YOU HAVE TO ASK WHAT IS IT COMPARED TO.  THE $91 BILLION IS

                    $45 BILLION LESS THAN WHAT NEW YORKERS -- THAN THE $135 BILLION THAT

                    NEW YORKERS ARE SPENDING TODAY.  AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, IF I

                    HAD THE CHOICE BETWEEN SPENDING $135 FOR SOMETHING AND $91 FOR THE

                    SAME THING, I'D GO FOR $91.

                                 MR. RAIA:  BUT WE'RE ASSUMING THAT'S BASED ON SOLID

                    INFORMATION.  NOW, THE -- YOU'RE ALSO RELYING ON, WHAT, $100 BILLION

                    FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?  WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY DECIDE THEY DON'T

                    WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN A -- IN A, YOU KNOW, A PILOT PROJECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE BULK OF THE

                    MONEY WE GET FROM WASHINGTON IS -- IS MEDICAID AND THE NEW YORK

                    HEALTH ACT WOULD NOT TOUCH THE MONEY WE GET FROM MEDICAID.

                    MEDICAID WOULD BE SURROUNDED BY THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT, WHICH IS

                    NOT ANYTHING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS ANY BUSINESS CARING

                    ABOUT.  THE -- NEW YORK, FROM THE VERY START OF THE MEDICAID PROGRAM,

                                         29



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    HAS COVERED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN'T

                    PROVIDE MATCHING MONEY FOR AND HAS PROVIDED SERVICES THAT THE

                    FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT PROVIDE MATCHING MONEY FOR.  AND SO,

                    THE FACT THAT 20 MILLION NEW YORKERS WOULD BE PARTICIPATING IN THE

                    PROGRAM DOES NOT AFFECT AT ALL THE MONEY WE GET FROM THE FEDERAL

                    GOVERNMENT FOR MEDICAID, AS LONG AS WE CONTINUE TO DOCUMENT TO THEM

                    WHAT WE'RE USING THEIR MONEY FOR.

                                 ON MEDICARE, IT WOULD BE BEST IF THE FEDERAL

                    GOVERNMENT HAD THE GOOD SENSE TO SAVE THEMSELVES MONEY BY -- BY

                    SENDING NEW YORK A LUMP-SUM PAYMENT TO GO INTO THE NEW YORK

                    HEALTH TRUST FUND TO COVER WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SPENDING ON

                    MEDICARE IN NEW YORK, BUT IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO DO THAT, THAT'S OKAY.

                    WE CAN RUN THE PROGRAM AS A WRAPAROUND, ESSENTIALLY AS A MEDI-GAP

                    POLICY.  OR, EVEN BETTER, WE CAN CREATE ONE BIG MEDICARE ADVANTAGE

                    PLAN IN NEW YORK THAT, UNLIKE OTHER MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS,

                    WOULD NOT HAVE RESTRICTED PROVIDER NETWORKS, ET CETERA, AND DRAW DOWN

                    EVEN MORE MONEY FROM WASHINGTON BECAUSE THEY OVERPAY MEDICARE

                    ADVANTAGE PLANS, AND WE COULD -- WE COULD FOLD MEDICARE IN THAT WAY.

                    SO, YES, COOPERATION FROM WASHINGTON ON THE MEDICARE SIDE WOULD BE

                    GREAT, BUT WE ARE NOT DEPENDING ON THAT.

                                 MR. RAIA:  CAN WE AGREE THERE'S, WHAT, ABOUT

                    930,000 UNINSURED IN NEW YORK STATE, 4.7 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  IT'S SOMEWHERE ABOVE OR BELOW A

                    MILLION, YES.

                                 MR. RAIA:  OKAY.  LET'S TALK -- NOW, I ACTUALLY AGREE

                                         30



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WITH YOU THAT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT HAS ACTUALLY WORKED IN NEW

                    YORK BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE CHOICES AND SELECTIONS TO CHOOSE FROM

                    THAN MANY OTHER STATES.  CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE HIGHEST PRICED

                    EXCHANGE PLAN IS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  NO.

                                 MR. RAIA:  OKAY, I WILL.  IN NASSAU AND SUFFOLK

                    COUNTY, THE COUNTY I REPRESENT, IT'S ABOUT $1,110 A MONTH,

                    $13,000-AND-CHANGE PER YEAR.  DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST

                    TO JUST SIMPLY INSURE EVERY UNINSURED PERSON USING THE HIGHEST-PRICED

                    PLAN AVAILABLE ON THE EXCHANGE?  I'LL SAVE YOU -- I'LL SAVE YOU THE

                    ANSWER; IT'S $12.34 BILLION.  SO, WE CAN HAVE 100 PERCENT INSURED RATE

                    IN NEW YORK STATE FOR $12 BILLION, BUT, YET, YOU WANT TO SPEND $255

                    BILLION.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE.  FIRST OF ALL,

                    UNDER YOUR PROPOSAL, WE WOULD BE CONTINUING TO WASTE AN ENORMOUS

                    AMOUNT OF MONEY ON EXPENDITURES THAT DON'T MAKE ANYBODY ANY

                    HEALTHIER.  NUMBER TWO, IF WE PROVIDE THAT COVERAGE TO THOSE UNINSURED

                    PEOPLE, DEPENDING ON -- YOU'D HAVE TO TELL ME A LOT MORE ABOUT HOW

                    YOU'RE GOING TO PROVIDE A STRUCTURE FOR IT.  IF YOU'RE GOING TO HEAVILY

                    SUBSIDIZE IT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE MOVING INTO THAT PLAN,

                    PARTICULARLY PEOPLE WHO ARE -- WHO ARE GOING TO BE HIGHER USERS OF

                    HEALTH CARE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHO WOULD BE ATTRACTED TO IT.  ADVERSE

                    SELECTION, WHICH IS WHAT THAT'S CALLED, WOULD THEN DRIVE UP THE COST OF

                    THAT PLAN ENORMOUSLY AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, IT WOULD GO BANKRUPT.

                                 MR. RAIA:  WELL, I -- I HAVEN'T PUT FORTH A PLAN, I'M

                                         31



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    JUST STATING NUMBERS.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  PART OF WHAT IS ESSENTIAL -- PART

                    OF WHAT IS ESSENTIAL TO THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT IS THAT ALL NEW

                    YORKERS, RICH AND POOR, HEALTHY AND SICK ARE IN ONE POOL FUNDED

                    WITHOUT ENORMOUS WASTE, FUNDED BASED ON ABILITY TO PAY AND WITHOUT

                    ADVERSE SELECTION.  WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING DOESN'T DO ANY OF THOSE

                    THINGS.

                                 MR. RAIA:  WELL, I HAVEN'T PUT FORTH A PLAN, I'M JUST

                    CITING STATISTICS AND DOLLARS AND CENTS.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I KNOW THAT.  AND, BY THE WAY,

                    I'D LOVE IT IF YOU WOULD.

                                 MR. RAIA:  OH, WELL, MAYBE WE CAN WORK ON THAT

                    FOR NEXT YEAR.  YOUR ECONOMIST, PROFESSOR FRIEDMAN, PROJECTS THAT

                    150,000 PEOPLE WOULD LOSE THEIR JOBS DUE TO THIS BILL, BUT CLAIMS 99

                    PERCENT WILL REGAIN EMPLOYMENT IN ONLY TWO YEARS.  YOU'RE AWARE THAT

                    EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY THAT HAS IMPLEMENTED A SINGLE-PLAYER PLAN OR

                    SOCIALIZED MEDICINE HAS TAKEN UP TO 10 YEARS TO IMPLEMENT THAT PLAN.

                    SO, YOU THINK 150,000 PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE GAINFULLY EMPLOYED IN

                    JUST TWO YEARS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I DON'T AGREE WITH ANY OF WHAT

                    YOU'VE JUST SAID.  I DON'T KNOW ANY COUNTRY THAT TOOK 10 YEARS TO

                    IMPLEMENT A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM.

                                 MR. RAIA:  VIRTUALLY ALL OF THEM, AND I'LL GET YOU THE

                    STATISTICS, RICHARD.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, I VISITED TAIWAN --

                                         32



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. RAIA:  SO DID I.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I VISITED --

                                 MR. RAIA:  AND TAIWAN DOESN'T PAY FOR --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  GENTLEMEN,

                    GENTLEMEN, GENTLEMEN, GENTLEMEN.

                                 MR. RAIA:  FAIR ENOUGH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YOU ASKED A

                    QUESTION, HE ANSWERS.  YOU ASK A QUESTION.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I VISITED TAIWAN FIVE YEARS AFTER

                    THEIR RIGHT-WING PARTY ADOPTED A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM AND IT WAS IN FULL

                    SWING.  AND I TALKED WITH A GROUP OF AMERICAN BUSINESS LEADERS WHO

                    WERE LIVING IN TAIWAN AND I ASKED THEM WHAT THEY THOUGHT OF THE PLAN

                    AND THEY THOUGHT IT WAS TERRIFIC.  IN CANADA, IT WAS IMPLEMENTED

                    ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.  WHEN LYNDON JOHNSON SIGNED THE MEDICARE LAW

                    IN 1965, 11 MONTHS LATER IT WAS PAYING CLAIMS.  THIS NOTION THAT IT

                    TAKES 10 YEARS TO IMPLEMENT, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT COMES FROM, NOT

                    FROM HISTORY, NOT FROM ANYBODY'S EXPERIENCE.

                                 MR. RAIA:  WELL, I'LL PROVIDE YOU WITH THE --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  AND, BY THE WAY, IF IT TAKES 10

                    YEARS TO IMPLEMENT, WELL THEN -- WHICH I DON'T ACCEPT, THEN THE

                    TRANSITION FROM THE CURRENT EMPLOYMENT PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAPPEN

                    OVERNIGHT, BUT NEITHER OF THOSE FACTS IS TRUE.  AND I HOPE YOU'RE NOT

                    SUGGESTING THAT A SYSTEM THAT DEPRIVES PEOPLE OF HEALTH CARE, THAT KILLS

                    PEOPLE, THAT DRIVES PEOPLE INTO BANKRUPTCY MORE THAN ANY OTHER CAUSE

                    IN OUR COUNTRY, I HOPE YOU'RE NOT SUGGESTING THAT WE SHOULD CONTINUE

                                         33



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    THAT CONCEPT AS A JOBS PROGRAM.  THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT PROVIDES

                    FOR SOME OF ITS REVENUE TO BE USED FOR JOB TRAINING AND TRANSITION, AND

                    WHEN YOU PUT $45 BILLION BACK INTO THE POCKETS OF NEW YORKERS, YOU

                    WILL ALMOST IMMEDIATELY CREATE A COUPLE OF HUNDRED THOUSAND JOBS OR

                    MORE AND YOU WILL BE TURNING NEW YORK INTO AN EMPLOYMENT MAGNET

                    BECAUSE EMPLOYERS IN NEW YORK WILL BE SPENDING A WHOLE LOT LESS THAN

                    THEY ARE TODAY FOR HEALTH COVERAGE FOR THEIR WORKERS.

                                 MR. RAIA:  RICHARD, I WAS IN TAIWAN TWO YEARS AGO

                    AND I GOT THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THE MINISTER OF HEALTH MANY QUESTIONS

                    ABOUT THEIR SINGLE-PAYER PLAN.  AND I ASKED -- THE FIRST QUESTION WAS

                    HOW DO YOU FINANCE -- ONE OF THE LARGEST COST-DRIVERS ARE NURSING

                    HOMES IN OUR SYSTEM AND I ASKED THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND HE SAID,

                    WELL, WE TAKE CARE OF OUR FAMILIES SO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE PEOPLE IN

                    NURSING HOMES; THAT'S NUMBER ONE.  NUMBER TWO, I ASKED, YOU KNOW,

                    ANOTHER MAJOR DRIVER FOR -- FOR OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS THE

                    MENTALLY-ILL AND THE MINISTER OF HEALTH ACTUALLY TOLD ME, WE HAVE NO

                    MENTALLY-ILL IN TAIWAN.  SO, IF YOU TAKE OUT TWO OF THE LARGEST

                    COST-DRIVERS, OF COURSE YOU CAN HAVE A -- A SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE

                    PLAN, RICHARD.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE NUMBERS

                    THAT YOU AND I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING HERE TODAY ARE -- ARE ONLY FOR CARE

                    OTHER THAN LONG-TERM CARE.  SO, WHETHER NURSING -- WHETHER -- AS

                    SOMEONE FROM TAIWAN TOLD ME A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, THEY SAID, WE

                    HAVE EIGHT MILLION NURSING HOMES IN TAIWAN, MEANING HOUSEHOLDS.

                    BUT, THE NUMBERS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE

                                         34



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    COST OF NURSING HOMES OR LONG-TERM CARE.  AS FOR MENTAL HEALTH CARE,

                    THE FACT THAT THE MINISTER FROM TAIWAN TELLS YOU THAT THEY DON'T HAVE

                    ANY MENTALLY-ILL PEOPLE DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY DON'T SPEND A CHUNK OF

                    MONEY ON MENTAL HEALTH CARE, IT MEANS THAT HE CHOSE TO TELL YOU THAT

                    THEY DON'T HAVE MENTALLY-ILL PEOPLE IN TAIWAN.  I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT'S

                    NOT TRUE.

                                 MR. RAIA:  I CAN ONLY -- THANK YOU.  I'LL BE BACK FOR

                    ANOTHER 15 MINUTES.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RAIA, THANK YOU

                    VERY MUCH.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WILL YOU YIELD, MR.

                    GOTTFRIED?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  CERTAINLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.  LAST

                    TIME WE DEBATED THIS BILL, I ASKED A FEW QUESTIONS AND I'D JUST LIKE TO

                    AUGMENT THAT A LITTLE BIT.  SO, I KNOW WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN THE PRIOR

                    DEBATE AND A LITTLE BIT THIS MORNING TALKING ABOUT THE THEORETICAL

                    ASPECTS OF A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM AND HOW TAKING OUT THE PROFIT MARGIN

                    OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, THAT WE CAN PROVIDE CHEAPER AND BETTER

                    HEALTH INSURANCE.  WHEN I TALKED TO SOME OF MY CONSTITUENTS ABOUT THE

                    -- ABOUT THIS BILL OR THE ISSUES IN GENERAL, THEY'RE GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE.

                                         35



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    I GUESS WHAT THEIR QUESTION OFTENTIMES IS TO ME IS, WELL, A, WILL I BE

                    ABLE TO SEE THE SAME DOCTORS AND, B, WILL I BE PAYING MORE OR LESS IF

                    THIS BILL WERE IMPLEMENTED?  SO, HOW DO YOU GENERALLY ANSWER THOSE

                    SORT OF SIMPLE QUESTIONS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, ON THE QUESTION OF CHOICE

                    OF PROVIDER, MOST OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS TODAY DON'T GET TO SEE THE DOCTOR

                    OF THEIR CHOICE UNLESS THEY PAY A LOT OUT-OF-POCKET.  THEY GET TO SEE THE

                    DOCTOR THAT THEIR INSURANCE PLAN HAS IN THEIR PROVIDER NETWORK.  UNDER

                    THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT, THERE WILL BE NO RESTRICTED PROVIDER

                    NETWORK.  TWENTY MILLION NEW YORKERS WILL BE ENTITLED TO GO TO ANY

                    DOCTOR, ANY PHYSICAL THERAPIST, ANY HOSPITAL IN NEW YORK.  NO

                    RESTRICTED PROVIDER NETWORK.  SECONDLY, WHETHER THEY WILL BE PAYING

                    MORE OR LESS.  UNLESS THEY ARE REALLY WEALTHY PEOPLE, THEY WILL BE

                    PAYING SUBSTANTIALLY LESS THAN THEY ARE PAYING TODAY IN PREMIUMS AND

                    DEDUCTIBLES AND CO-PAYS AND -- AND OUT-OF-POCKET CHARGES.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  ONE OF THE UNFORTUNATE THINGS

                    ABOUT OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS THE GREAT DISPARITY BETWEEN WHAT

                    PEOPLE PAY AND WHAT THEY GET.  SO, I MAY BE SITTING DOWN WITH

                    SOMEONE WHO HAS A GREAT COLLECTIVE -- COLLECTIVELY-BARGAINED HEALTH

                    INSURANCE PLAN THAT THEY ARE VERY HAPPY WITH, AND AN HOUR LATER, I MAY

                    HAVE SOMEONE IN MY OFFICE WHO IS CURRENTLY WORKING AS A FREELANCE,

                    FILL-IN-THE-BLANK, AND STRUGGLING ON THE EXCHANGES, SEEING INCREASES

                    EVERY YEAR.  SO, HOW CAN I TELL BOTH THOSE PEOPLE -- I'M QUITE CONFIDENT

                    FOR THE PERSON THAT'S STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW THAT UNDER THIS PLAN THEY

                    WOULD BE BETTER, BUT WHAT DO WE TELL THOSE FOLKS BELIEVE THAT, YOU

                                         36



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    KNOW, THEY HAVE 15, 20 YEARS IN A CURRENT CAREER, THEY'VE COLLECTIVELY

                    BARGAINED, THEY HAVE A GOOD HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN, THAT THEY'LL ALSO BE

                    PAYING LESS OR SIMILAR.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YEAH.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  IS THERE ANYWAY TO ASSURE THEM?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, A COUPLE OF THINGS.  ONE, IS

                    THAT IN THE -- IN THE LABOR MOVEMENT, HAVING THE -- A UNION HEALTH PLAN

                    WAS ONE OF THE -- WAS AND STILL IS ONE OF THE PROUD THINGS THAT THE UNION

                    MOVEMENT OFFERS.  INCREASINGLY, THOUGH, UNIONS UNDERSTAND THAT -- THAT

                    THE COLLECTIVELY-BARGAINED HEALTH PLAN IS AN ENORMOUS BURDEN ON THE

                    WORKERS AND ON COLLECTIVE BARGAINING BECAUSE EVERY COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING SESSION IS A USUALLY RETREATING FIGHT TO PROTECT THE HEALTH

                    PLAN WITH THE UNION HAVING REALLY NO LEVERAGE LEFT TO FIGHT FOR HIGHER

                    WAGES OR BETTER BENEFITS OR VACATIONS, ET CETERA.  AND SO, INCREASINGLY

                    THE LABOR MOVEMENT SEES COLLECTIVELY-BARGAINED HEALTH CARE AS A GREAT

                    THING, BUT AN ENORMOUS WEIGHT AROUND THE NECK OF THE UNION AND ITS

                    MEMBERS.  A UNION THAT HAS NEGOTIATED WITH MANAGEMENT TO PAY FOR

                    THE BULK OR ALL OF THE COST OF THE HEALTH PLAN WILL INSTEAD NEGOTIATE WITH

                    MANAGEMENT TO PAY THE BULK OR ALL OF THE PAYROLL TAX UNDER NEW YORK

                    HEALTH, WHICH THE BILL ALLOWS.  THEY WILL HAVE AN EASIER TIME

                    NEGOTIATING THAT BECAUSE THEY WILL BE NEGOTIATING WITH THE EMPLOYER TO

                    PAY A LARGER SHARE OF A SMALLER DOLLAR AMOUNT.  SO, PUT ALL THAT DYNAMIC

                    TOGETHER, AS I SAID, UNLESS YOU'RE TALKING TO A VERY HIGH INCOME

                    CONSTITUENT, IT IS GUARANTEED THAT THEY WILL BE SPENDING A LOT LESS FOR

                    BETTER COVERAGE UNDER THIS BILL.

                                         37



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  WHEN YOU SAY A "HIGHER INCOME

                    CONSTITUENT," BUT, YOU KNOW, I TALK TO FOLKS ALL THE TIME THAT SOME PAY

                    10 PERCENT, SOME PAY 0, SOME PAY 25 PERCENT, SOME PAY 33 PERCENT OR

                    50 PERCENT OF THEIR CURRENT HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN.  SO, WHAT ABOUT THOSE

                    FOLKS?  WHAT CAN I TELL THEM AFTER THIS BILL PASSES, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU

                    PAY IN TAXES WILL SURELY BE THE SAME OR IF NOT LESS THAN WHAT YOU'RE

                    PAYING NOW?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, THE BILL SAYS THAT AT LEAST 80

                    PERCENT OF THE PAYROLL TAX WILL BE PAID BY THE EMPLOYER, AND UP TO 20

                    PERCENT PAYABLE BY THE WORKER.  AND IT SAYS "AT LEAST AND UP TO" TO

                    ACCOMMODATE A BARGAINING SITUATION.  AND, AGAIN, A -- IF AN EMPLOYER

                    HAS BARGAINED TO PAY MORE THAN 80 PERCENT OF THE COST OF THE PREMIUM,

                    IT'LL BE EASIER TO GET THEM TO PAY THAT SAME PERCENTAGE OR MORE OF THE

                    LOWER NUMBER, WHICH IS THE PAYROLL TAX.  ALSO, AN AWFUL LOT OF THOSE

                    PLANS, EVEN WITH THE EMPLOYER PAYING THE BULK OF THE PREMIUM, AND, BY

                    THE WAY, WITH ALMOST EVERY COLLECTIVE BARGAINING ROUND, IN MOST CASES

                    THE EMPLOYER IS CHISELING DOWN WHAT THE EMPLOYER PAYS.  BUT EVEN

                    APART FROM THAT, USUALLY THE WORKER THEN HITS A DEDUCTIBLE AND CO-PAYS

                    AND OUT-OF-NETWORK CHARGES, AND UNDER THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT,

                    THERE WOULD BE NO DEDUCTIBLES OR CO-PAYS OR OUT-OF-NETWORK CHARGES.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  IS IT SAFE TO SAY UNDER THE BILL

                    THAT AS I HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH MY CONSTITUENTS THAT I CAN SAY TO

                    THEM, IF THIS BILL WERE TO PASS BOTH HOUSES AND BE SIGNED BY THE

                    GOVERNOR, I WILL AT SOME POINT HAVE SPECIFIC FACTS AND FIGURES I CAN

                    SHOW YOU.  MY UNDERSTANDING IS UNDER THIS BILL IF WE PASS IT, THERE'D BE

                                         38



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    A SECOND PART OF THE BILL WHERE IT WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK TO US AND AT

                    THAT POINT AFTER A STUDY, I CAN SHOW MY CONSTITUENTS, THIS IS WHAT YOU'D

                    BE PAYING AND YOU COMPARE IT TO WHAT YOU'RE PAYING NOW.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.  THE BILL DOES NOT HAVE

                    SPECIFIC TAX BRACKETS AND RATES, NOR COULD IT, AT THIS POINT, PARTLY

                    BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STATE'S OVERALL INCOME WILL BE SOME

                    NUMBER OF YEARS FROM NOW WHEN WE'RE READY TO -- WHEN THE PLAN IS

                    ENACTED AND IMPLEMENTED.  BUT THE GOVERNOR, UNDER THE BILL, WILL

                    SUBMIT LEGISLATION TO US WITH SPECIFIC BRACKETS AND RATES.  WE WILL -- IT

                    WILL BE UP TO US TO ENACT THAT.  SO, YOU WILL HAVE HARD NUMBERS.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  ON THE -- MR. SPEAKER, ON THE

                    BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  MR. SPEAKER, IT'S AN ABSOLUTE

                    TRAVESTY THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE IN ALL OF OUR DISTRICTS THAT STRUGGLE TO TAKE

                    CARE OF THEMSELVES, TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILIES, THAT EACH AND EVERY

                    DAY AND EACH AND EVERY YEAR AS THEY GO THROUGH A HEALTH INSURANCE

                    PROCESS, THAT THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER EVER-RISING COSTS, AND THERE'S

                    REALLY NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEM BEING ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF

                    THEIR OWN HEALTH OR THEIR FAMILIES' HEALTH.  SO, WHEN WE LOOK AT BILLS

                    LIKE THIS, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO LOOK AT THOSE FOLKS IN OUR DISTRICT THAT I

                    CAN'T IMAGINE A BIGGER PRIORITY FOR US THEN TO PROVIDE INSURANCE, TO

                    PROVIDE COVERAGE, TO PROVIDE HEALTH CARE TO PEOPLE THAT ARE ABSOLUTELY

                                         39



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    STRUGGLING.

                                 AT THE SAME TIME, MR. SPEAKER, ONE OF THE DIFFERENT --

                    DIFFICULTIES OF THIS DEBATE IS THAT YOU HAVE FOLKS IN YOUR DISTRICT THAT

                    FORTUNATELY HAVE GOOD HEALTH INSURANCE, THAT ARE MAYBE PART OF A UNION

                    OR HAVE AN EMPLOYER THAT PROVIDES GOOD HEALTH INSURANCE, AND WE CAN'T

                    FORGET THOSE FOLKS AND WE CAN'T JUST CAST THEM ASIDE AND SAY, WELL, YOUR

                    CONCERNS ABOUT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH INSURANCE DON'T MATTER BECAUSE WE

                    MAY HAVE PEOPLE IN A SITUATION THAT ISN'T AS ADVANTAGEOUS.  SO, THIS

                    BALANCING ACT IS OFTEN TIMES WHAT IS DIFFICULT IN ANY HEALTH INSURANCE

                    DEBATE, WHETHER IT'S ON THE STATE LEVEL OR ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

                                 SO, WHAT I THINK IS MOST IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS BILL, AND

                    I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR, IS THAT WE'RE DOING SOMETHING IN NEW

                    YORK.  WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BALANCE BOTH THESE -- BOTH

                    THOSE THAT HAVE GOOD HEALTH INSURANCE AND THOSE THAT DON'T, BUT WE

                    NEED TO GIVE OUR CONSTITUENTS SOME FACTS.  WE NEED TO GIVE THEM SOME

                    FIGURES.  THEY SIT DOWN AT THE DINNER TABLE AND THEY ARE GOING TO

                    COMPARE WHAT THEY PAY.  SOME OF MY CONSTITUENTS PAY A COUPLE

                    HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH, SOME PAY $6- OR $700 A MONTH.  SOME ARE

                    PAYING THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A MONTH IN ORDER FOR THEIR

                    HEALTH INSURANCE.

                                 BUT THE REASON WHY I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR THIS BILL IS

                    NOT ONLY WITH THE HOPE THAT WE CAN DEVELOP A PLAN THAT WILL COVER

                    EVERYBODY, THAT WILL PROVIDE HEALTH INSURANCE, THAT WILL FINALLY MAKE

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND HOPEFULLY ENCOURAGE OUR FEDERAL

                    GOVERNMENT TO DO MORE FOR THOSE THAT STRUGGLE EACH AND EVERY DAY, BUT

                                         40



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    THAT WE CAN ALSO TELL PEOPLE THAT CURRENTLY HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, HERE'S

                    WHAT THE PLAN IS.  BECAUSE TOO OFTEN IN THIS DEBATE WE'RE DEALING WITH

                    THEORY AND WE'RE REALLY NOT GIVING OUR CONSTITUENTS THE TOOLS NECESSARY

                    FOR THEM TO EVALUATE AND I THINK COME AROUND TO SUPPORT A BILL LIKE

                    THIS.  BECAUSE IT'S ALMOST UNANIMOUS, IT'S NOT UNANIMOUS, BUT WHEN I

                    TALK ABOUT, THEY WANT TO GIVE THEIR NEIGHBOR THAT IS STRUGGLING WITH

                    HEALTH INSURANCE, HEALTH INSURANCE.  BUT THEY ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE

                    THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO PAY FOR WHATEVER THE NEW PLAN IS, THEY'LL BE

                    ABLE TO SEE THEIR CURRENT DOCTOR TOMORROW THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO SEE TODAY

                    AND THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE -- THAT THEIR PLAN WON'T BE HARMED.

                                 SO FOR THAT REASON, MR. SPEAKER, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S

                    WELL THOUGHT OUT, THAT WE CAN DISCUSS THIS AND THE FACT THAT I'LL BE ABLE

                    TO GO BACK TO MY DISTRICT IN ROCKLAND COUNTY AND SAY, HERE'S WHAT IT

                    IS, BEFORE IT'S DROPPED ON PEOPLE, THAT'S WHY I'LL BE SUPPORTING THIS BILL.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. PHILLIP STECK.

                                 MR. STECK:  ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. STECK:  A FREQUENT THING THAT I'VE HEARD FROM

                    OPPONENTS OF THIS BILL, EVEN WITHIN MY OWN PARTY, IS THAT, WE DON'T

                    NEED ANOTHER BIG GOVERNMENT PROGRAM.  AND THAT IS WHAT IDEOLOGY

                    MIGHT TEACH US.  PRACTICALITY, HOWEVER, DEMONSTRATES THAT THIS IS AN

                    AREA WHERE GOVERNMENT SIMPLY AND HISTORICALLY HAS FUNCTIONED MORE

                    EFFICIENTLY THAN PRIVATE INSURANCE.  OUR CURRENT HEALTH INSURANCE

                                         41



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    SYSTEM IS WOEFULLY INEFFICIENT.  WHEN MEDICAID IS ADDED TO PRIVATE

                    INSURANCE, AND THAT MEDICAID HAS TO BE PROVIDED TO COVER PEOPLE

                    PRIVATE INSURANCE WON'T, ADMINISTRATIVE OVERHEAD IS EATING UP AS MUCH

                    AS 40 PERCENT OF THE DOLLARS WE SPEND ON HEALTH CARE.  WE NEED A LESS

                    EXPENSIVE, MORE READILY-ACCESSIBLE SYSTEM.

                                 OTHER ADVANCED NATIONS HAVE MET THIS CHALLENGE, AND

                    WE SHOULD, TOO.  MEDICARE, WHICH IS A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM FOR THE

                    ELDERLY, SPENDS LESS THAN 3 PERCENT ON ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.

                    FURTHERMORE, THE MEDICARE TAX WHICH IS 2.9 PERCENT, HALF EMPLOYER AND

                    HALF EMPLOYEE-PAID, EACH PAYS 1.45 PERCENT, HAS NOT INCREASED SINCE

                    1986, WHILE PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE HAS GONE UP SEVERAL HUNDRED

                    TIMES DURING THAT SAME PERIOD.  MEDICARE HAS DONE ALL THIS WHILE

                    INSURING THE LEAST HEALTHY POPULATION IN THE UNITED STATES.

                                 NEW YORK HEALTH ACT WOULD SAVE NEARLY $45 BILLION

                    IN THE FIRST YEAR ALONE, THANKS TO REDUCED ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, AND 98

                    PERCENT OF HOUSEHOLDS WOULD PAY LESS FOR COVERAGE THAN THEY DO NOW.

                    THE SYSTEM WOULD ALSO END THE LOCAL SHARE OF MEDICAID FUNDING WHICH

                    IS INCREASING OUR PROPERTY TAXES IN THIS STATE, CREATING THE POTENTIAL FOR

                    SIGNIFICANT PROPERTY TAX RELIEF FOR MY CONSTITUENTS.

                                 BUSINESS NEEDS TO SUPPORT SINGLE-PAYER ABOVE ALL

                    SECTORS OF OUR SOCIETY.  BUSINESS NEEDS TO GET PAST ANTI-GOVERNMENT

                    IDEOLOGY, GET ON BOARD AND SUPPORT THIS PROPOSAL, BECAUSE IT IS

                    BUSINESS THAT WOULD BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE LOWER COSTS.  IN THE

                    MOVIE, FIX IT, WHICH YOU CAN GET ON THE INTERNET AND I WOULD HEARTILY

                    RECOMMEND THIS TO COLLEAGUES AND CONSTITUENTS ALIKE, A BUSINESSMAN

                                         42



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY OF CANADA COMPLAINED THAT

                    HE WAS UNABLE TO OPEN A SIMILAR BUSINESS IN THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE

                    THE COST OF HEALTH INSURANCE WAS PROHIBITIVE.  THE HIGH COST OF HEALTH

                    INSURANCE IS A HIGHLY-SIGNIFICANT FACTOR IN MAKING AMERICA BUSINESS

                    LESS COMPETITIVE.

                                 IT IS VERY IRONIC.  ONE OF THE MOST HISTORICALLY

                    CONSERVATIVE PARTIES IN THE WORLD, THE KUOMINTANG IN TAIWAN, LONG

                    TRUMPETED BY THE AMERICAN RIGHT AS STAUNCH ANTI-COMMUNIST ADOPTED

                    SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH INSURANCE WITH GREAT SUCCESS.  THE NEW YORK

                    HEALTH ACT WOULD ALSO HELP US BY REDUCING AUTO INSURANCE COSTS,

                    WORKERS' COMPENSATION COSTS AND MEDICAL MALPRACTICE COSTS, BECAUSE

                    ALL THOSE PROGRAMS DUPLICATE HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE.

                                 LET'S MOVE FORWARD AND ENACT A CRITICAL COST-SAVINGS

                    MEASURE THAT WILL ALLEVIATE SUBSTANTIAL FINANCIAL STRESS ON OUR

                    BUSINESSES AND OUR CONSTITUENTS.  WE HAVE SECRETARIES PAYING

                    $10,000-A-YEAR FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.  WE SHOULD NOT CONTINUE THIS

                    ABSURDITY IN THE NAME OF AN OUTDATED FREE MARKET IDEOLOGY AS IF THERE

                    REALLY IS A FREE MARKET IN HEALTH CARE.  AND I WOULD POINT OUT THAT THE --

                    ONE THING THAT I THINK IS HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE IS TO REFER TO THIS AS

                    SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.  THIS IS NOT CONTROL OVER MEDICINE IN ANY WAY,

                    SHAPE OR FORM.  IT IS, HOWEVER, QUITE FRANKLY, SOCIALIZED HEALTH

                    INSURANCE.

                                 AS I HAVE NOTED BEFORE, THE PROVINCIAL CANADIAN

                    PRIME MINISTER WHO FIRST IMPLEMATED -- IMPLEMENTED A SINGLE-PAYER

                    SYSTEM WAS VOTED BY THE CITIZENS OF CANADA AS THE GREATEST LIVING

                                         43



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    CANADIAN.  DICK GOTTFRIED DESERVES A SIMILAR NEW YORK TITLE FOR HIS

                    PERSISTENCE ON THIS ISSUE OVER THE MANY YEARS AND FOR WHICH I OFFER MY

                    HEARTY CONGRATULATIONS.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. RAIA FOR A SECOND.

                                 MR. RAIA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE SPONSOR

                    HAS BEEN DISCUSSING THIS BILL FOR 20 YEARS, OR CLOSE TO 20 YEARS, AND I

                    HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR HIM.  HE REALLY DOES BELIEVE WHAT HE'S TALKING

                    ABOUT.  AND HE'S ALSO VERY GOOD AT RUNNING DOWN THE CLOCK.  SO, I HAVE

                    ABOUT 50 QUESTIONS THAT I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO BECAUSE MY FIRST

                    BOSS UP HERE, JOHN COCHRANE, ASSEMBLYMAN COCHRANE, TAUGHT ME

                    NEVER TO ASK A QUESTION ON THE FLOOR OF THE ASSEMBLY THAT YOU DON'T

                    ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER.  SO, I'M GOING TO ASK QUESTIONS AND ANSWER

                    THEM AND I'M NOT GOING TO -- UPFRONT, I'M NOT GOING TO YIELD TO

                    ANYBODY.  THEY CAN UTILIZE THEIR OWN TIME TO RESPOND TO -- TO WHAT I'M

                    SAYING AFTER I'M DONE.

                                 SO HERE WE GO.  IN CALIFORNIA, WHOSE ALSO -- WHICH IS

                    A STATE THAT'S ALSO TRYING TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR, THEY HAVE 39.45

                    MILLION PEOPLE, APPROXIMATELY TWICE THE SIZE OF NEW YORK.  CALIFORNIA

                    ESTIMATES THE SINGLE-PAYER PLAN, THEIR SINGLE-PAYER PLAN WILL BE $400

                    BILLION A YEAR.  THEIR ANALYSIS WAS DONE BY THE CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE,

                    NOT ONE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL WHERE WE'RE RELYING ON MOST OF -- OF WHAT

                    THEIR PROJECTIONS ARE.  SO, NEW YORK IS HALF THE SIZE OF CALIFORNIA, BUT

                    SINGLE-PAYER HERE WOULD ONLY BE A QUARTER-OF-THE-COST.  I DON'T KNOW;

                    THAT SOUNDS LIKE FUZZY MATH TO ME.

                                         44



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 LET'S SEE.  THE SIZE OF THE STATE BUDGET IF WE ADOPT

                    SINGLE-PAYER WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY $375 BILLION; $255 BILLION FOR

                    SINGLE-PAYER, APPROXIMATELY $50 BILLION FOR EDUCATION, APPROXIMATELY

                    $70 BILLION FOR TRANSPORTATION, ET CETERA, EVERYTHING ELSE.  SO, THAT

                    MEANS THAT 85 PERCENT OF ALL STATE SPENDING WOULD GO TO HEALTH CARE.

                    I'M PRETTY SURE NEW YORKERS DON'T WANT US SPENDING 85 CENTS OF EVERY

                    TAX DOLLAR ON A DOCTOR VISIT.

                                 THE BILL, AS WE MENTIONED BEFORE, CALLS FOR FULL

                    IMPLEMENTATION IN TWO YEARS.  WELL, WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THAT'S GOING

                    TO BE A PIPE DREAM.  EVERY OTHER COUNTRY THAT HAS SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH

                    CARE CURRENTLY HAS PRIVATE INSURANCE PLANS THAT COMPETE WITH THE PUBLIC

                    PAYER, WHICH HELPS KEEP THOSE COSTS LOWER.  IT'S ALSO BEGUN PRIVATIZING

                    ASPECTS OF COVERAGE TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE MODEL THAT WE'RE

                    ADVOCATING HERE TODAY.  MANY OF US ON THE HEALTH COMMITTEE ARE

                    FAMILIAR WITH THE MEDICAID REDESIGN TEAM, THE MRT, AND ITS

                    INITIATIVES TO HELP LOWER THE COST OF MEDICAID.  A MAJOR PART OF THE

                    MRT HAS BEEN THE INTRODUCTION OF MANAGED CARE PLANS THAT HAVE SAVED

                    NEW YORK STATE NEARLY $16 BILLION IN THE PAST SEVEN YEARS.  I CONTEND

                    THAT IF WE GO THIS ROUTE, WE'RE GOING TO BACKTRACK ON MANY OF THOSE

                    ACCOMPLISHMENTS; IN FACT, THE CMS AWARDED NEW YORK STATE AN $8

                    BILLION WAIVER FOR DSRIP BASED ON THE SAVINGS ACHIEVED BY

                    IMPLEMENTING MANAGED CARE.

                                 AND IT'S NOT JUST NEW YORK.  THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

                    IS FINDING THAT PUBLIC PAYER SYSTEMS WORK BEST WHEN PRIVATE PLANS HELP

                    ADMINISTER THEM.  MEDICARE ADVANTAGE IS A WIDELY SUCCESSFUL AND

                                         45



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    POPULAR PROGRAM THAT IS PRIVATELY ADMINISTERED.  USING THE EXPERTS,

                    QUOTE/UNQUOTE "ESTIMATES," THERE'S A TOTAL NEW TAX REVENUE NEW YORK

                    WOULD NEED TO RAISE IS AROUND $91 BILLION.  THE TAX REVENUE NEW YORK

                    COLLECTS FROM ALL SOURCES RIGHT NOW IS $71.6 BILLION.  SO, EVEN

                    ACCORDING TO WHAT EVERYBODY ACKNOWLEDGES IS AN EXCESSIVELY

                    CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE, WE WOULD NEED TO MORE THAN DOUBLE THE TOTAL

                    TAXES NEW YORK COLLECTS TO PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR FEWER THAN ONE

                    MILLION STILL UNINSURED NEW YORKERS.

                                 MORE IMPORTANTLY, PROFESSOR FRIEDMAN PROJECTS THAT

                    150,000 PEOPLE WOULD LOSE THEIR JOBS DUE TO THIS BILL, BUT CLAIMS 99

                    PERCENT OF THEM WILL REGAIN EMPLOYMENT IN ONLY TWO YEARS.  I'M PRETTY

                    SURE THAT'S NOT REALISTIC, AND HISTORY TELLS US THAT'S THE CASE, BECAUSE THE

                    LAST TIME NEW YORK LOST 150,000 JOBS, ACCORDING TO THE NEW YORK

                    STATE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, WAS 2007-9 DURING THE GREAT RECESSION.

                    WE LOST 219,000 JOBS, AND UPSTATE STILL HASN'T FULLY RECOVERED.

                    ACCORDING TO PROFESSOR FRIEDMAN, HE EXPECTS THOSE 150,000 JOBS TO

                    REGAIN EMPLOYMENT WITHIN TWO YEARS.  DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE LAST

                    TIME NEW YORK LOST 150,000 JOBS AND REGAINED THEM IN TWO YEARS?

                    NEVER.  SO -- AND THEN, WHAT'S THE VALUE OF THOSE LOST WAGES, THOSE

                    150,000 PEOPLE?  MR. -- PROFESSOR FRIEDMAN DOESN'T TAKE THAT INTO

                    ACCOUNT, BUT MY PEOPLE HAVE AND IT'S ABOUT $10 BILLION.

                                 DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY EMPLOYEES OF HEALTH

                    INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE -- ARE IN MANHATTAN COUNTY ALONE?  TEN

                    THOUSAND INSURANCE EMPLOYEES THAT WILL LOSE THEIR JOB.  THAT DOESN'T

                    COUNT FOR THE BROKERS, THE UNDERWRITERS AND THE THIRD-PARTY

                                         46



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    ADMINISTRATORS AND THE VENDORS, AND THE LIST GOES ON.  DO YOU KNOW

                    HOW MANY EMPLOYEES OF HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES WORK RIGHT HERE

                    IN ALBANY COUNTY?  MORE THAN 3,700, AND THAT DOESN'T COUNT THE

                    BROKERS, UNDERWRITERS, THIRD-PARTY ADMINISTRATORS, AND THE LIST GOES ON.

                    NOW, PROFESSOR FRIEDMAN DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE ESTIMATES OF

                    AVIK ROY WHO CLAIMS WE'RE GOING TO LOSE 90,000 JOBS JUST BECAUSE THE

                    FINANCIAL SECTOR IS GOING TO FLEE NEW YORK LIKE YOU'VE NEVER SEEN, TO

                    CONNECTICUT.

                                 IF THIS PASSES, PEOPLE CAN'T KEEP THEIR MEDICARE

                    ADVANTAGE PLAN.  IF THIS PASSES, PEOPLE WHO GET THEIR COVERAGE THROUGH

                    LABOR UNIONS CAN'T KEEP THAT.  IF THIS PASSES, PEOPLE WHO LIKE THEIR

                    EMPLOYER'S HEALTH CARE PLAN CAN'T KEEP THAT EITHER, BECAUSE NEW YORK

                    WOULD MANDATE THERE BE NO OTHER COMPETING PLANS.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, I'M NOT WILLING TO GAMBLE THE FUTURE OF

                    NEW YORK'S ECONOMY ON PRIMARILY THE BEST GUESSTIMATES OF A PROFESSOR

                    WHO THEMSELVES READILY ADMITS THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT WAY AT LOOKING AT

                    THE WORLD.  I'M NOT GOING TO BE IN A POSITION TO TELL THE ROUGHLY 2,500

                    PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT OR IN SUFFOLK COUNTY THAT ARE GOING TO LOSE THEIR

                    JOBS THAT THEY HAVE TO SACRIFICE FOR THE GREATER GOOD.  I THINK WE NEED TO

                    PUT THE BRAKES ON THIS AND FIGURE OUT A REAL WAY THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS

                    ARE GOING TO FIND GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT, BECAUSE TURNING THEM INTO CARE

                    COORDINATORS AIN'T GONNA CUT IT.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, IT'S A NOBLE IDEA TO TRY AND ENSURE THAT

                    EVERYBODY HAS EQUAL HEALTH CARE, BUT THOSE PEOPLE THAT LIKE THEIR PLANS

                    CAN'T KEEP THEM.  WE'VE ALREADY -- I'VE ALREADY PUT FORTH A POTENTIAL

                                         47



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    IDEA THAT COULD DO THIS FOR FAR LESS.  I CERTAINLY WILL BE EXPLORING IT,

                    BECAUSE I HAVE A FEELING WE'RE GOING TO BE BACK HERE NEXT YEAR

                    DEBATING THIS BILL AGAIN, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT OPPORTUNITY.  SO, IN

                    ADVANCE, I'D LIKE TO THANK THE CHAIRMAN FOR -- FOR HIS ZEALOUS DEBATE

                    AND I TRULY ENJOY WORKING WITH HIM AS THE RANKING MEMBER ON THE

                    HEALTH COMMITTEE.  AND ON THAT NOTE, I WILL SIT DOWN, MIND MY P'S AND

                    Q'S AND LET OTHERS PICK UP THE PACE AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET OUT OF

                    HERE AT A REASONABLE HOUR.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    RAIA.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  YES, THANK YOU, SIR, FOR ALLOWING A

                    BRIEF INTERRUPTION.  I'D LIKE TO ASK MEMBERS OF THE RULES COMMITTEE TO

                    MAKE THEIR WAY TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE WHILE THE DEBATE

                    CONTINUES, MEMBERS OF THE RULES COMMITTEE, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE

                    ROOM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MEMBERS OF THE

                    RULES COMMITTEE, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.  RULES COMMITTEE IN

                    THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 APOLOGIZE FOR THE INTERRUPTION.

                                 MR. BARCLAY.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                         48



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  DO YOU YIELD,

                    MR. GOTTFRIED?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  CERTAINLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  THIS WILL BE QUICK, BECAUSE I HAVE

                    TO GO TO THE RULES COMMITTEE MEETING.  I'M TRYING TO GET MY ARMS

                    AROUND THE ECONOMICS OF THIS, MR. GOTTFRIED.  I THINK YOU -- YOU SAID

                    EARLIER IN THE DEBATE, $280 BILLION WE'RE GOING TO SPEND ON HEALTH CARE

                    NEXT YEAR; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  PRIVATE AND PUBLIC?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  YOUR BILL TAKES AWAY ANY PRIVATE

                    INSURANCE, SO, WE'LL BE SPENDING IN NEW YORK PUBLICLY $280 BILLION

                    NEXT YEAR; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  NO.  ABOUT $140 BILLION OF THAT

                    IS PUBLIC HEALTH COVERAGE TODAY, MEDICAID, MEDICARE AND A COUPLE OF

                    OTHER PROGRAMS.  ABOUT $135-, GIVE OR TAKE, IS PRIVATE HEALTH

                    INSURANCE.  OF THAT, WE WILL HAVE A NET -- NET SAVINGS OF ABOUT $45

                    BILLION.  SOME OF THAT NET SAVINGS WILL ALSO COME OUT OF MEDICAID, AND

                    THAT WILL TAKE US DOWN TO REPLACING THAT $135- WITH ABOUT $90- SO

                    INSTEAD OF ABOUT $280-, WE WILL BE SPENDING ABOUT $235- TOTAL.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  I'M GETTING -- I'M SORRY, I'M GETTING

                    A LITTLE CONFUSED.

                                         49



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  SO WE WILL -- WE WILL BE SAVING

                    $45 BILLION NET.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  AND HOW IS THAT SAVINGS REALIZED?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  AS I SAID, THAT SAVINGS COMES

                    FROM DRAMATIC REDUCTION IN ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, MARKETING AND PROFIT

                    ON THE INSURANCE -- ON THE PAYER SIDE, AND A DRAMATIC REDUCTION IN THE

                    ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS FOR FIGHTING WITH INSURANCE COMPANIES ON THE

                    PROVIDER SIDE.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  DOESN'T THE --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  PLUS -- OH, PLUS MORE EFFECTIVE

                    NEGOTIATION OF PRICES WITH DRUG COMPANIES FROM HAVING ONE PLAN

                    BARGAINING ON BEHALF OF 20 MILLION COVERED LIVES.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  INSURANCE COMPANIES CURRENTLY

                    HAVE THE -- BY LAW UNDER BOTH FEDERAL AND STATE LAW, MEDICAL LOSS RATIO

                    WHERE THEY HAVE TO PAY 85, IS IT 85 PERCENT OF EVERY PREMIUM DOLLAR ON

                    HEALTH CARE; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, DEPENDING ON THE

                    INSURANCE COMPANY, SOME OF THEM CAN SPEND LESS THAN 85 PERCENT.

                    AND THAT'S WHY I SAY ABOUT 15 PERCENT OF EVERY PREMIUM DOLLAR IS THAT

                    NON-HEALTH BENEFIT COST, WHEREAS THIS PLAN, THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT,

                    WILL SPEND ABOUT 2 PERCENT.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  DOES ANY OTHER STATE HAVE

                    SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  IN THIS COUNTRY?  NOT YET.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  AND OTHER STATES, I KNOW MR. RAIA

                                         50



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    REFERRED TO CALIFORNIA LOOKING AT IT, THEY SAY $400 BILLION.  WHERE

                    COLORADO PUT A BALLOT MEASURE OUT THAT GOT REJECTED BECAUSE, IN MY

                    OPINION, BECAUSE OF THE COST.  VERMONT, THE FORMER GOVERNOR RAN ON

                    SINGLE-PAYER AND THEN WHEN HE GOT INTO OFFICE, HE REALIZED THE COST OF

                    THE SINGLE-PAYER WAS GOING TO BE MORE -- TWICE AS MUCH AS THEIR

                    OVERALL BUDGET.  WHY DO WE THINK WE CAN DO IT IN NEW YORK CHEAPER?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IN CALIFORNIA,

                    THE REASON THE PLAN THERE GOT SHELVED WAS BECAUSE THE BILL THAT THEIR

                    STATE SENATE PASSED DID NOT HAVE A FUNDING MECHANISM IN IT, AND SO

                    WHEN IT GOT TO THE ASSEMBLY, THE SPEAKER SAID, THIS ISN'T READY FOR

                    PRIME TIME.  THIS BILL HAS A FUNDING MECHANISM.  IF YOU LOOK AT THE

                    CALIFORNIA STUDY THAT MR. RAIA CITED, IT ACTUALLY SAYS THAT THE COST OF --

                    THE PUBLIC COMPONENT OF THE COST WOULD BE NOT $400 MILLION -- BILLION,

                    BUT ABOUT $200 BILLION.  I'VE SAID THAT FOR NEW YORK, IT WOULD BE ABOUT

                    $91 BILLION.  IF YOU CONSIDER THAT CALIFORNIA IS ABOUT TWICE OUR SIZE, THE

                    NUMBERS ACTUALLY ARE CONSISTENT PRETTY MUCH WITH WHAT I'VE SAID.

                                 COLORADO, THEIR REFERENDUM WENT DOWN PRIMARILY

                    BECAUSE -- AND IT'S A PROBLEM WITH REFERENDUMS IN THE LAST WEEK OR TWO

                    OF THE CAMPAIGN, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY CAME IN WITH MILLIONS AND

                    MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF MISLEADING TV ADS AND SCARED A LOT OF PEOPLE.

                    THAT DOESN'T TELL YOU WHETHER SINGLE-PAYER IS A GOOD IDEA, IT TELLS YOU

                    WHETHER GOING UP AGAINST A MAJOR CORPORATE POWER IN A REFERENDUM IS

                    A GOOD IDEA.

                                 AS FOR VERMONT, THEIR ANALYSIS -- ONE OF THEIR ANALYSES

                    EXPLICITLY IGNORED A LOT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SAVINGS.  THEIR PLAN DID NOT

                                         51



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    FULLY BRING IN ALL OF THEIR HEALTH ECONOMIES, SO THEY LOST A LOT OF

                    POTENTIAL SAVINGS.  THEIR TAX WAS NOT PROGRESSIVELY GRADUATED AND,

                    THEREFORE, THE AVERAGE VERMONTER WOULD HAVE HAD TO PAY MORE THAN

                    THEY WOULD IF IT HAD BEEN A PROGRESSIVELY GRADUATED TAX.  AND, FINALLY,

                    UNLIKE NEW YORK, VERMONT DOES NOT HAVE AN ENORMOUS CHUNK OF VERY

                    HIGH TAXABLE WEALTH, BECAUSE IT'S PRIMARILY A -- A TOURISM AND

                    AGRICULTURAL ECONOMY.  AND SO, OUR TAX NUMBERS WOULD WORK VERY WELL

                    HERE IN NEW YORK.  SO, CALIFORNIA, COLORADO, VERMONT DO NOT GIVE US

                    ANY REASON TO HAVE PAUSE ABOUT NEW YORK.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  CAN YOU -- JUST TO FOLLOW UP A LITTLE

                    BIT ON THE PAYMENT FOR THIS.  ASSUMING YOUR NUMBERS ARE CORRECT, WHAT

                    DOES THE LEGISLATION SAY AS FAR AS HOW YOU'RE GOING TO COLLECT THE

                    ADDITIONAL REVENUE?  CAN YOU GO THROUGH THAT?  IT'S A PAYROLL TAX, AND

                    WHAT -- WHAT ELSE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  PART OF IT WOULD BE A TAX ON

                    PAYROLL INCOME DEFINED AS INCOME THAT IS NOW SUBJECT TO THE MEDICARE

                    PART B TAX.  PART OF IT WOULD BE A TAX ON NON-PAYROLL INCOME THAT IS

                    CURRENTLY SUBJECT TO THE NEW YORK STATE PERSONAL INCOME TAX,

                    DIVIDENDS, CAPITAL GAINS AND THE LIKE.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  HAS THE FINANCIAL SECTOR WEIGHED

                    IN ON THIS BILL?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I DON'T KNOW.  IF YOU'RE ASKING

                    WHETHER THEY ARE THE FIRST GROUP OF AMERICANS WHO WOULD SAY, YES,

                    PLEASE TAX MY INCOME; PROBABLY NOT.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  PROBABLY NOT.  THEY'RE ALSO ONE OF

                                         52



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    THE BIGGEST TAXPAYERS IN NEW YORK STATE.  IF WE LOSE THEM, WE'LL --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YEAH, AND -- AND -- AND THEY

                    WOULD BE -- THERE -- AS EMPLOYERS, THEY WOULD BE SPENDING LESS THAN

                    THEY ARE NOW, AND -- AND YOU HAVE TO FACTOR THAT IN, THAT THEIR HEALTH

                    COVERAGE COSTS WOULD BE DRAMATICALLY LESS.  AND, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE

                    ANSWER TO ALL THESE QUESTIONS IS UNLESS YOU SAY THAT IT'S OKAY TO HAVE A

                    LARGE CHUNK OF NEW YORKERS GOING WITHOUT HEALTH CARE OR HAVING TO

                    SUFFER FINANCIALLY TO GET IT, IF THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU, WHAT'S YOUR

                    PLAN?  AND ANY NUMBER OF CONSULTING FIRMS, URBAN INSTITUTE, RAND -

                    NOT JUST GERRY FRIEDMAN - HAVE LOOKED AT THAT QUESTION AND HAVE ALL

                    CONCLUDED THAT THE MOST COST-EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT WAY TO PROVIDE

                    UNIVERSAL HEALTH COVERAGE IS THROUGH A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  I GUESS THAT'S WHERE WE'RE --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  NOBODY HAS STUDIED -- THAT I'VE

                    EVER HEARD OF, NOBODY HAS STUDIED THIS AND COME TO A DIFFERENT

                    CONCLUSION.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  I GUESS THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD

                    DIFFER AND WE'RE VERY SKEPTICAL, AT LEAST I'M VERY SKEPTICAL THAT THE

                    GOVERNMENT'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.  WITH -- WE HAVE

                    10 -- HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ON PRIVATE INSURANCE NOW IN NEW YORK

                    STATE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  AHH...

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  DO YOU KNOW?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  SOMETHING LESS THAN -- PROBABLY

                    AROUND 10 MILLION.

                                         53



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  TEN MILLION, THAT'S MY

                    UNDERSTANDING.  HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE SELF-INSURED?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YOU MEAN EMPLOYERS WITH

                    SELF-INSURED PLANS?

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  PROBABLY ABOUT HALF, GIVE OR

                    TAKE.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, TOO.

                    WITH THAT NUMBER, KNOWING THAT YOU CANNOT -- THEY WON'T BE SUBJECT TO

                    THE SINGLE-PAYER IN NEW YORK STATE, WOULD THAT SCREW UP YOUR

                    NUMBERS AT ALL?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, THEY WOULD -- THEY WOULD

                    ALL BE PAYING THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT TAX, ERISA DOESN'T STOP US

                    FROM TAXING.  EVERY ONE OF THOSE SELF-INSURED PLANS WOULD HAVE THE

                    CHOICE OF CONTINUING TO SPEND THEIR STOCKHOLDERS' AND THEIR WORKERS'

                    MONEY ON A PLAN THAT PROVIDES LESS BENEFIT THAN THEIR WORKERS COULD GET

                    JUST FOR THE ASKING FROM THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT WHILE STILL PAYING

                    THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT TAXES, THAT WOULD BE ONE CHOICE.  OR, THEY

                    COULD GET SMART AND SAY, WHY ARE WE GOING TO KEEP SPENDING BILLIONS

                    OF DOLLARS OF OUR MONEY ON A SELF-INSURED PLAN WHEN WE'RE PAYING THE

                    NEW YORK HEALTH ACT TAX AND OUR WORKERS CAN GET COMPLETE COVERAGE

                    JUST FOR THE ASKING.  SO, YEAH, WE CAN'T OUTLAW SELF-INSURED PLANS, BUT

                    ONLY, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE ANY EMPLOYER THAT IN ITS RIGHT MIND WOULD

                    MAINTAIN ONE.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.  FINALLY,

                                         54



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    AS YOU RECALL, PRESIDENT OBAMA DURING THE OBAMACARE DEBATE SAID IF

                    YOU LIKE YOUR PLAN, YOU CAN KEEP IT.  IF THIS BECOMES LAW AND I LIKE MY

                    PLAN, CAN I KEEP MY PLAN?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  IF YOU LIKE YOUR PLAN, YOU WILL BE

                    ABLE TO HAVE EVERYTHING THAT IS PAID FOR BY YOUR CURRENT PLAN PAID FOR.

                    EVERY DOCTOR THAT YOUR CURRENT PLAN LETS YOU GO TO, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO

                    TO GO.  EVERY HOSPITAL THAT YOUR CURRENT PLAN GOES TO, YOU WILL BE ABLE

                    TO GO TO.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  IN OTHER WORDS --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  AND, YOU CAN ALSO GO TO EVERY

                    OTHER DOCTOR AND HOSPITAL IN THE STATE AND GET A LOT OF HEALTH CARE THAT

                    YOUR PLAN WON'T PAY FOR AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO PAY OUT-OF-POCKET.

                                 MR. BARCLAY:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YEAH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  DO YOU YIELD,

                    MR. GOTTFRIED?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. RA:  SO, JUST A FEW QUESTIONS HERE AND I'M GOING

                    TO START WITH A VERY BASIC ONE THAT KIND OF HAS BEEN TOUCHED ON, BUT,

                    YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD THIS DEBATE BEFORE AND I -- AND I CONTINUE TO HAVE

                                         55



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    TROUBLE WRAPPING MY BRAIN AROUND THE CONCEPT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE

                    HAVE OUR CURRENT MEDICAID SYSTEM THAT COVERS ROUGHLY ONE-THIRD OF THE

                    POPULATION, CORRECT, OF -- OF OUR STATE, MAYBE A LITTLE LESS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  ABOUT SIX-AND-A-HALF MILLION OUT

                    OF ABOUT 19 OR 20 MILLION, YES.

                                 MR. RA:  SO IF THAT IS COSTING US ABOUT $62 BILLION,

                    HOW CAN WE COVER BASICALLY THREE TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE FOR MERELY 50

                    PERCENT MORE OF THE COST?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE WOULD

                    CONTINUE TO BE DOING THE MEDICAID SPENDING AND DRAWING DOWN THE

                    FEDERAL MONEY.  SECOND OF ALL, A VERY LARGE PORTION OF OUR HEALTH CARE

                    COSTS ARE IN THE MEDICARE POPULATION; WE WOULD CONTINUE TO BE

                    DRAWING DOWN THE MEDICARE MONEY.  SO, WHAT WE WOULD BE PAYING FOR

                    WITH THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT IS THE ROUGHLY $135 BILLION THAT ISN'T

                    GOVERNMENT-FUNDED HEALTH CARE ALREADY.  WE WOULD BE SAVING ABOUT

                    $45 BILLION OF THAT.  THAT GETS YOU TO THE $90 BILLION THAT THE NEW YORK

                    HEALTH ACT TAXES WOULD NEED TO RAISE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  SO, OUT OF THE $280- THAT WE'RE

                    NOW SPENDING, $140- IS GOVERNMENT SPENDING TODAY THAT WILL CONTINUE.

                    ABOUT $135- IS INSURANCE-COVERED SPENDING PLUS OUT-OF-POCKET THAT

                    WILL BE RATCHETED DOWN TO ABOUT $90-.

                                 MR. RA:  ALL RIGHT.  SO, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'VE --

                    YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT AND I THINK WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION BEFORE ON --

                    ON THE FLOOR IS THIS -- THIS CONCEPT THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE GREAT SAVINGS

                                         56



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    FROM THE FACT THAT THIS PLAN IS GOING TO BE MUCH MORE EFFICIENT IN TERMS

                    OF ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.  AND THE ESTIMATE, I BELIEVE, IS 2 PERCENT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  AND YOU JUST MENTIONED A MINUTE AGO THE

                    URBAN INSTITUTE THAT, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR ANALYSIS OF THE CONCEPT OF

                    SINGLE-PAYER HAVE BASICALLY COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THEY DON'T SEE

                    HOW IT COULD GO BELOW AROUND 6 PERCENT, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY

                    THREE-TIMES HIGHER THAN THAT 2 PERCENT NUMBER.  DO YOU --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YEAH, THAT'S BECAUSE -- AND, FIRST

                    OF ALL, LET'S REMEMBER THAT A FEW YEARS AGO, THE URBAN INSTITUTE DID A

                    REPORT FOR NEW YORK STATE THAT STILL SAID THAT A SINGLE-PAYER PLAN IS THE

                    LEAST COSTLY AND MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR EVERY NEW

                    YORKER.  BUT THAT 6 PERCENT FIGURE, HERE'S WHERE THAT NUMBER COMES

                    FROM:  ABOUT 36 PERCENT OF MEDICARE IS MEDICARE ADVANTAGE, WHICH

                    HAS YOUR 15, 18 PERCENT, MORE OR LESS, ADMINISTRATIVE COST.  ABOUT 70

                    PERCENT OF MEDICARE IS TRADITIONAL MEDICARE AT ABOUT A 2 PERCENT COST.

                    IF YOU DO SIMPLE ARITHMETIC, IF 30 PERCENT OF THE PLAN COSTS ABOUT 15 OR

                    18 PERCENT AND 70 PERCENT OF THE PLAN COSTS ABOUT 2 PERCENT, WHAT YOU

                    COME OUT WITH IS URBAN INSTITUTE'S 6 OR 8 PERCENT FIGURE.  SO, YEAH,

                    MEDICARE OVERALL RUNS AT ABOUT A 6 OR 8 PERCENT ADMINISTRATIVE COST,

                    BUT THAT'S BECAUSE ALMOST A-THIRD OF IT IS RUN AT OUTRAGEOUSLY COSTLY

                    LEVELS BECAUSE IT'S RUN THROUGH INSURANCE COMPANIES.  TRADITIONAL

                    MEDICARE, WHICH IS THE MODEL WE WOULD BE ADOPTING, RUNS AT ABOUT 2

                    PERCENT AND THAT NUMBER, WHEN YOU DO THE CORRECT ARITHMETIC, IS

                    PERFECTLY CONSISTENT WITH THE URBAN INSTITUTE AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE'S 6

                                         57



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    OR 8 PERCENT CLAIM, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT TRADITIONAL

                    MEDICARE, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT MEDICARE WHEN YOU INCLUDE THE

                    EXCESSIVE COSTS OF MEDICARE ADVANTAGE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  WOULD -- WOULD YOU AGREE THAT, YOU

                    KNOW, ONE OF THE BEST WAYS WE CAN KIND OF ANALYZE THIS BILL IS BY

                    LOOKING AT OUR CURRENT MEDICAID SYSTEM AND THEN EXTRAPOLATING THAT

                    ACROSS THE POPULATION?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, NOT ENTIRELY, FOR TWO

                    REASONS.  NUMBER ONE, THE CURRENT MEDICAID PROGRAM USES INSURANCE

                    COMPANIES TO ADMINISTER IT.  AND, BY THE WAY, THE DSRIP PROGRAM THAT

                    MR. RA -- MR. RAIA MENTIONED IS GRADUALLY MOVING AWAY FROM THAT

                    CONCEPT BY RELYING INCREASINGLY ON INTEGRATED PROVIDER SYSTEMS AND --

                    AND -- AND HAVING THOSE SYSTEMS DO CARE COORDINATION WHICH IS, BY THE

                    WAY, THE MODEL IN THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT; WE'RE JUST NOT HAVING

                    MANAGED CARE PLANS IN THE MIDST.  SECOND OF ALL, YOU KNOW, THE

                    COMPTROLLER JUST CAME OUT WITH A REPORT THAT SAID, OH MY GOD,

                    MEDICARE SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS -- OR BILLIONS OF DOLLARS --

                                 MR. RA:  OVER $1 BILLION.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  -- IN WRONGFUL PAYMENTS BECAUSE

                    THEY WERE PAYING MEDICAID MONEY FOR PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAD

                    PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE.  THAT'S ONE PROBLEM WITH OUR CURRENT SYSTEM.

                    PEOPLE SPEND A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT AND MONEY TRYING, OFTEN NOT

                    SUCCESSFULLY, TO FIGURE OUT WHICH PLAN COVERS THIS PATIENT.  AND THAT'S

                    HOW MEDICAID WENT ASTRAY IN THAT COMPTROLLER'S REPORT.  UNDER THE

                    NEW YORK HEALTH ACT, UNDER ANY SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM, YOU WOULD HAVE

                                         58



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    NONE OF THAT KIND OF WORRYING ABOUT DUPLICATE PAYERS.

                                 MR. RA:  WELL, AND THIS REPORT I KNOW JUST CAME OUT

                    YESTERDAY, I BELIEVE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YUP.

                                 MR. RA:  IT WAS $1.2 BILLION IN UNNECESSARY SPENDING

                    AND, YOU KNOW, IT -- IT WAS AN ISSUE I WANTED TO RAISE ON THE FLOOR AND I

                    ASSUMED THAT THAT WOULD BE YOUR RESPONSE, THAT THERE --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YEAH.

                                 MR. RA:  -- WOULD ONLY BE A SINGLE-PAYER, SO YOU

                    WOULDN'T HAVE THIS ISSUE, BUT --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  RIGHT.  AND ALSO -- AND ALSO, BY

                    THE WAY, THAT WAS I THINK OVER SIX YEARS, SO THE NUMBER'S A LITTLE LESS

                    EXCITING WHEN YOU DIVIDE IT BY SIX, BUT STILL, IT'S WASTE AND IT'S WASTE

                    COST.

                                 MR. RA:  IT'S STILL ABOUT $200 MILLION A YEAR.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YEAH.

                                 MR. RA:  THAT'S NOT NOTHING.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  RIGHT.  I SAID, IT'S -- IT'S STILL

                    WASTE, BUT IT IS WASTE THAT IS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF A MULTI-PAYER

                    SYSTEM.

                                 MR. RA:  BUT, YOU KNOW, ASSUMING THEN YOU DON'T

                    HAVE THAT ISSUE, THERE -- THERE STILL, I THINK, IS A CONCERN THAT IS RAISED

                    BY -- BY, YOU KNOW, A REPORT LIKE THAT IN TERMS OF HOW THE SYSTEM IS

                    BEING ADMINISTERED.  JUST -- JUST BECAUSE THERE'S NOT MULTIPLE PEOPLE TO

                    BILL, IT -- IT STILL SHOWS, YOU KNOW, A LACK OF -- OF CERTAIN, I DON'T KNOW,

                                         59



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    COST CONTROLS OR WHATEVER THAT --- THAT WE WOULD HAVE.  AND, YEAH, IT'S

                    GREAT TO SAY, OKAY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SINGLE-PAYER, BUT THAT

                    SINGLE-PAYER IS STILL GOING TO BE OUR TAXPAYERS.  SO, SOMEBODY STILL HAS

                    TO BE WATCHING OUT FOR THE FINANCIAL SIDE OF THIS PROGRAM.  WE CAN'T JUST

                    SAY, OKAY, THERE'S A SINGLE-PAYER SO LET'S JUST PAY WHATEVER IT IS.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, AND ACTUALLY, FOR THE LAST, I

                    GUESS GOING BACK TO ABOUT '05, SO FOR THE LAST DOZEN OR SO YEARS, IN NEW

                    YORK WE HAVE HAD A DRAMATICALLY RAMPED UP MEDICAID FRAUD AND

                    WASTE OPERATION BETWEEN THE MEDICAID INSPECTOR GENERAL AND THE

                    COMPTROLLER'S MEDICAID FRAUD UNIT.  AND IN THE PRIVATE INSURANCE

                    WORLD, THEY DON'T DO ANYWHERE NEAR AS GOOD A JOB ACTUALLY AS MEDICAID

                    NOW DOES IN CATCHING FRAUD, PARTLY BECAUSE NO ONE PAYER OVERSEES THE

                    WHOLE THING, PARTLY BECAUSE INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T HAVE THE LEGAL

                    TOOLS THAT THE STATE HAS IN THE MEDICAID PROGRAM, PARTLY BECAUSE

                    SOMETIMES INSURANCE COMPANIES KIND OF LOOK THE OTHER WAY IF THEY'RE

                    TRYING TO KEEP A -- A -- A TREASURED HOSPITAL IN THEIR NETWORK, WHICH

                    CREATES -- WHICH CERTAINLY IMPAIRS THEIR ABILITY TO BE TOUGH ON FRAUD AND

                    WASTE.  SO, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY ACTUALLY DOES NOT DO ANYWHERE NEAR

                    AS GOOD A JOB AT DEALING WITH FRAUD AND WASTE AS NEW YORK'S MEDICAID

                    PROGRAM CURRENTLY DOES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ANCIENT

                    HISTORY, I'M TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

                                 MR. RA:  LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER REPORT THAT

                    WAS DONE BY THE STATE COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE A COUPLE YEARS AGO.  YOU

                                         60



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    KNOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE WOULD BE GREAT SAVINGS FROM, YOU

                    KNOW, BEING ABLE TO BE THIS SOLE ENTITY THAT IS GOING TO NEGOTIATE WITH --

                    WITH PROVIDERS AND DRUG MANUFACTURES AND ALL OF THAT.  IN 2015, THERE

                    WAS -- THERE WAS SOMETHING PUT OUT BY THE COMPTROL -- COMPTROLLER

                    THAT BASICALLY SAID THAT THE STATE HAD FAILED TO OBTAIN APPROXIMATELY

                    $170 MILLION IN DRUG REBATES AND DISCOUNTS UNDER OUR MEDICAID

                    PROGRAM.  AGAIN, COVERING ROUGHLY A THIRD OF OUR POPULATION.  WHY

                    WOULD WE DO BETTER WHEN THIS WAS COVERING OUR ENTIRE POPULATION?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, AT THAT TIME

                    MEDICAID -- THE STATE WAS ONLY DOING REBATE WORK FOR A TINY FRACTION OF

                    THE MEDICAID PROGRAM, BECAUSE IN 2011 WE GAVE THE WHOLE MEDICAID

                    DRUG PROGRAM BACK TO THE MANAGED CARE PLANS.  EACH MANAGED CARE

                    PLAN ONLY BARGAINS ON BEHALF OF ITS FEW THOUSANDS ENROLLEES.  NOBODY

                    IS BARGAINING FOR 20 MILLION NEW YORKERS.  WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO A

                    MUCH BETTER JOB IF -- IF WE WERE BARGAINING NOT ONLY FOR A FRACTION OF

                    MEDICAID RECIPIENTS, BUT FOR ME AND YOU AND WEALTHY NEW YORKERS

                    AND -- AND EVERYBODY IN BETWEEN.

                                 YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LOOK AT MEDICARE AND SAY IT'S

                    SHOCKING THAT CONGRESS SAID THAT MEDICARE CAN'T BARGAIN WITH DRUG

                    COMPANIES UNDER MEDICARE PART D, AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND

                    THAT DRUG COMPANIES MAKE OUT LIKE BANDITS UNDER MEDICARE PART D

                    BECAUSE CONGRESS CHOSE TO BAR MEDICARE FROM NEGOTIATING WITH THEM.

                    UNDER THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT, WE WOULD NOT BE MAKING THAT CHOICE.

                    WE WOULD BE HAVING NEW YORK ON BEHALF OF 20 MILLION PATIENTS

                    BARGAINING WITH DRUG COMPANIES.

                                         61



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. RA:  BUT, I -- I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE THAT THIS

                    FAILURE TO ACHIEVE THAT SAVINGS IS -- IS JUST, OKAY, THEY -- THEY WOULD

                    HAVE HAD BETTER NEGOTIATING POWER IF THEY WERE REPRESENTING MORE

                    PEOPLE.  IT WAS A FAILURE TO GO AFTER A COST-SAVINGS AND, I DON'T KNOW,

                    WE'VE SEEN IN ANY NUMBER OF AREAS --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL --

                                 MR. RA:  -- YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SO MUCH EVIDENCE

                    OVER THE YEARS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT GO TO WASTE AND FRAUD AND

                    ABUSE AND SOMETIMES IT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE -- WE'RE -- WE'RE

                    TOO COMFORTABLE WITH -- WITH THAT MONEY GOING AWAY THAT COULD BE, YOU

                    KNOW, THAT COULD BE SPENT ON SOMEBODY'S CARE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, AND I GUESS ONE THING I'D

                    SAY IS THAT THE COMPTROLLER DOESN'T STUDY THE FAILURE TO -- TO GET EVERY

                    DOLLAR THEY CAN BY INSURANCE COMPANIES OR BY PHARMACEUTICAL BENEFIT

                    MANAGERS, WHICH OPERATE COMPLETELY UNDER THE COVER OF DARKNESS AND

                    NONE OF US KNOWS WHAT KIND OF MONEY IS COMING INTO THEIR POCKETS OR

                    HOW GOOD A JOB THEY'RE DOING AT BARGAINING WITH DRUG COMPANIES OR

                    HOW MUCH OF THE SAVINGS THEY ARE PASSING ON TO THEIR INSURANCE

                    COMPANY CLIENTS.  SO, YEAH, IF THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT GET AUDITED AND

                    HAVE THE AUDITS PUBLISHED IN THE PAPER IS THE MEDICAID PROGRAM, YOU

                    AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH WASTE AND -- AND -- AND LACK OF TAKING

                    ADVANTAGE OF SAVINGS GOES ON IN THE INSURANCE WORLD.

                                 MR. RA:  WELL, I --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  BUT THE MEDICAID PROGRAM, EVEN

                    WITH ITS LIMITED ABILITY TODAY SPENDS A LOT LESS ON DRUGS THAN THE HEALTH

                                         62



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    PLAN THAT COVERS YOU AND ME.

                                 MR. RA:  WELL, I THINK DESPITE OUR DISAGREEMENTS ON

                    THIS BILL, I THINK IF THERE'S ONE THING WE COULD AGREE ON IT'S THE NEED FOR

                    SOME TRANSPARENCY WITH RESPECT TO PBMS, SO I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT

                    UP.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I HAVE A BILL YOU CAN CO-SPONSOR.

                                 MR. RA:  YES, I AM.  ONE -- ONE OTHER QUESTION, YOU

                    KNOW, THE NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS THIS STUDY THAT'S

                    BEEN COMMISSIONED THROUGH RAND.  DO WE KNOW WHEN THAT'S COMING

                    OUT?  ARE WE PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE BY NOT WAITING TO SEE

                    WHAT THE RESULTS OF THAT ARE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, IT'S NOT THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    HEALTH, IT'S THE NEW YORK STATE HEALTH FOUNDATION.  YES, THEY HAVE THE

                    RAND PEOPLE DOING A STUDY.  IT'S EXCEPTED OUT SOMETIME LATER THIS

                    YEAR.  YOU KNOW, ANY TIME WE DEBATE THIS BILL, THERE WILL BE SOME

                    OTHER STUDY THAT'S COMING OUT NEXT YEAR, BUT WE MOVE FORWARD.  THE

                    RAND -- RAND HAS DONE ANALYSES, RAND AND OTHER MAJOR

                    CONSULTANTS HAVE DONE ANALYSES OF SINGLE-PAYER PROPOSALS IN OTHER

                    STATES.  A YEAR OR TWO AGO RAND DID AN ANALYSIS OF AN OREGON

                    SINGLE-PAYER PROGRAM AND, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T -- THEIR CONCLUSION

                    WAS NOT AS -- WAS NOT AS POSITIVE AS MINE, BUT THEIR CONCLUSION WAS

                    THAT, A, IT WOULD BASICALLY BREAK EVEN WITH CURRENT SPENDING AND, B,

                    WAS, AGAIN, THE MOST EFFICIENT AND -- AND COST-EFFECTIVE WAY TO EXPAND

                    HEALTH COVERAGE.  SO, THEY WEREN'T AS POSITIVE IN THEIR LOOK AT OREGON

                    AND IN A COUPLE OF OTHER STATES AS I AM FOR NEW YORK, BUT, YOU KNOW,

                                         63



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    FRANKLY, IF WE JUST BROKE EVEN AND PROVIDED UNIVERSAL HEALTH COVERAGE

                    AND NOBODY HAVING TO GO BANKRUPT AND NOBODY HAVING TO PUT OFF CARE

                    BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT, IF -- IF ALL WE DID WAS BREAK EVEN, I'D SAY

                    THAT WAS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE.

                                 MR. RA:  SO JUST -- JUST, LASTLY, SO OBVIOUSLY ONE OF

                    OUR CONCERNS AND I THINK LARGELY THE REASON WE'RE HAVING THIS DEBATE IS

                    THE COST -- COST OF HEALTH CARE, RIGHT?  AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW,

                    YOU'RE -- A LOT OF THIS IS BUILT ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT WE'RE -- WE'RE

                    PAYING A LOT TO PRIVATE INSURERS AND -- AND WE CAN BE MORE EFFICIENT IF

                    -- IF THE GOVERNMENT WERE JUST TO STEP IN TO PROVIDE HEALTH CARE.  BUT

                    WE'VE SEEN EVEN UNDER, YOU KNOW, THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT THE

                    CONTINUATION OF JUST SKYROCKETING COSTS OF CARE AND I DON'T THINK THAT IS

                    SOLELY ATTRIBUTED TO PRIVATE INSURANCE.  SO, WHAT ARE THE COST CONTROLS IN

                    THIS THAT WILL STOP THE CONTINUED INFLATION OF COSTS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THE COST CONTROLS ARE -- FIRST OF

                    ALL, WE'D HAVE A SYSTEM THAT UNLIKE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAS A

                    REAL INCENTIVE TO PROMOTING PRIMARY AND PREVENTATIVE CARE AND KEEPING

                    ITS ENROLLEES AS HEALTHY AS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE INSURANCE COMPANIES

                    KNOW THAT IF THEY INVEST A LOT IN MAKING YOU HEALTHY TODAY, IN FIVE

                    YEARS YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE CUSTOMER OF SOME OTHER

                    INSURANCE COMPANY AND THAT OTHER INSURANCE COMPANY WILL REAP THE

                    BENEFIT OF THEIR INVESTMENT IN YOUR PRIMARY CARE.  A SINGLE-PAYER

                    SYSTEM HAS NO SUCH DISINCENTIVE TO INVEST IN KEEPING YOU HEALTHY.

                                 SECONDLY, A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM BARGAINING WITH

                    PROVIDERS HAS THE INCENTIVE TO -- TO REACH A -- A REASONABLE MID --

                                         64



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    MID-GROUND IN PAYMENT.  THERE WILL BE DOWNWARD PRESSURE BECAUSE

                    LEGISLATORS WILL ALWAYS BE PRESSING THE PLAN TO KEEP TAXES DOWN, BUT

                    THERE WILL BE UPWARD PRESSURE BECAUSE IT WILL BE THE HEALTH PLAN THAT

                    WE AND ALL OF OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE COVERED BY.  AND SO, THAT BALANCE OF

                    DOWNWARD AND UPWARD PRESSURE IS WHAT WILL GUARANTEE THAT THE SYSTEM

                    KEEPS ON AN EVEN KEEL.  AND THE FACT THAT WE AND ALL OF OUR CONSTITUENTS

                    WILL BE IN THE SAME HEALTH PLAN WITH WEALTHY NEW YORKERS, WITH THE

                    GOVERNOR, WITH PEOPLE WITH -- WITH POWER AND INFLUENCE, THE FACT THAT

                    WE WILL ALL BE IN THE SAME BOAT AND COVERED BY THE SAME PLAN IS WHAT

                    IS A KEY FACTOR IN WHAT WILL MAKE SURE THAT PROVIDERS ARE NOT PAID

                    WILDLY, BUT PAID REASONABLE RATES SO THAT NEW YORK IS A PLACE WHERE

                    DOCTORS AND HOSPITALS WILL WANT TO DO BUSINESS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA'S TIME HAS

                    EXPIRED.

                                 AND NOW WE WILL GO TO MR. BYRNE.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    CHAIRMAN GOTTFRIED YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED WILL

                    YIELD.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.  IT'S ALWAYS

                    A PLEASURE SERVING ON THE HEALTH COMMITTEE AND I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF

                    BILLS THAT WE REPORT TO THE FLOOR THAT IMPROVE THE HEALTH OF OUR

                    RESIDENTS.  THIS IS ONE, THOUGH, I HAVE SOME SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT, SO

                    I WANTED TO CHAT WITH YOU ON THE -- THIS GREAT -- GREAT FLOOR, THE

                                         65



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    PEOPLE'S CHAMBER.

                                 YOU TALKED ABOUT THE GOAL OF THIS LEGISLATION AND HOW

                    IT'S REALLY TO PROVIDE QUALITY HEALTH CARE FOR ALL NEW YORKERS.  WOULD

                    YOU SAY IT'S ACCURATE THAT THIS GOAL WOULD ALSO, SAY, THAT IT'S TO IMPROVE

                    QUALITY, ACCESS AND AFFORDABILITY FOR ALL NEW YORKERS?  WOULD THAT BE A

                    --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  -- FAIR STATEMENT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  OKAY.  I THINK IT'S A VERY ADMIRABLE --

                    ADMIRABLE GOAL AND I DEFINITELY LAUD YOU FOR THAT AND ALL OUR COLLEAGUES

                    FOR THAT, I JUST, AGAIN, HAVE CONCERNS THAT THIS WILL GET US TO THAT.

                                 REGARDING A PRIVATE -- SOME OF THIS HAS BEEN ASKED OR

                    ANSWERED, SO I'M GOING TO TRY TO NARROW THIS DOWN A LITTLE BIT.  FOR NEW

                    YORKERS THAT DO HAVE PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE PLANS, DO YOU HAVE ANY

                    IDEA HOW MANY ACTUALLY LIKE THEIR CURRENT HEALTH INSURANCE PLANS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, I'VE SEEN SOME POLLS

                    SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, 60 PERCENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OF NEW

                    YORKERS ARE SATISFIED WITH OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.  YOU KNOW, IF YOUR

                    -- IF YOUR CAR IS NEVER IN AN ACCIDENT, YOU'RE PROBABLY SATISFIED WITH

                    YOUR CAR INSURANCE.  IT'S JUST WHEN YOU HAVE AN ACCIDENT AND THE

                    INSURANCE COMPANY DOESN'T PAY YOU THAT YOU MAY HAVE A PROBLEM.  IF

                    YOU LOOK AT THE -- THE STANDARD CURVE OF -- OF UTILIZATION OF HEALTH CARE

                    SERVICES, THE VAST MAJORITY OF US IN A GIVEN YEAR HARDLY CONSUME ANY

                    HEALTH CARE SERVICES.  SO, YEAH, WE TEND TO BE PRETTY HAPPY WITH THE

                                         66



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.  IF YOU DON'T SUBMIT A BILL, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT

                    YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY IS GOING TO JERK YOU AROUND, BUT IF YOU'RE --

                    BUT THERE ARE AN AWFUL LOT OF NEW YORKERS WHO DO NEED TO USE THEIR

                    COVERAGE AND DISCOVER THAT THEY'VE GOT A SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLAR

                    DEDUCTIBLE AND THEIR INSURANCE COVERAGE IS ESSENTIALLY NOT WORTH

                    ANYTHING TO THEM, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MEET THE DEDUCTIBLE.  THAT'S A

                    LARGE PART OF THE PROBLEM.  SO, YEAH, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HATE THEIR

                    INSURANCE COMPANY YET.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  SO, OKAY.  SO, AS ONE OF OUR

                    COLLEAGUES SAID BEFORE, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A BALANCING ACT, BUT THE

                    GALLUP POLL THAT I READ FROM NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR SAID 77 PERCENT OF

                    PEOPLE ACTUALLY STILL LIKE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN, AND I WOULD BE

                    CONCERNED ABOUT ANYTHING THAT COULD REMOVE THEIR EXISTING PLAN FROM

                    THEM, EVEN IF, AS YOU SUGGEST THAT IT WOULD PROVIDE SIMILAR OR THE SAME

                    OPTIONS, OR EVEN MORE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  BY THE WAY, THE GALLUP PEOPLE

                    ALSO CONSISTENTLY FIND THAT A THIRD OF HOUSEHOLDS WITH HEALTH INSURANCE

                    REPORT THAT A HOUSEHOLD MEMBER IN THAT YEAR WENT WITHOUT HEALTH CARE,

                    USUALLY FOR A SERIOUS CONDITION, BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T PAY FOR IT.  SO, IF

                    THEY SAY THEY LIKE THEIR HEALTH PLAN, AN AWFUL LOT OF THEM MAY LIKE THEIR

                    HEALTH PLAN, BUT THEY'RE HAVING TO GO WITHOUT CARE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T

                    PAY FOR IT.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  OKAY.  MOVING ON TO ANOTHER

                    QUESTION, JUST BECAUSE I DO HAVE LIMITED TIME, MR. GOTTFRIED.  YOU

                    MENTIONED IT A COUPLE TIMES ON THE FLOOR TODAY ABOUT THE MARKETING

                                         67



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    DOLLARS SPENT IN PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE PLANS.  DO YOU HAVE A FIGURE

                    ON HOW MUCH THAT WOULD BE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I'M NOT SURE WHAT PERCENT OF THE

                    15 TO 18 PERCENT OF NON-BENEFIT COST IS MARKETING.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  SO THE REASON I ASK THAT IS YOU'RE

                    AWARE THAT THE STATE OF NEW YORK SPENDS MONEY ON MARKETING, ON --

                    WHETHER IT'S ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS, THE STATE SPENDS QUITE A

                    BIT OF MONEY ON MARKETING, AS WELL.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  WOULD YOU ENVISION US SPENDING

                    MARKETING DOLLARS ON THIS PROGRAM?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  NO, JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T

                    SPEND A LOT OF MONEY MARKETING PUBLIC SCHOOLS.  THE GOVERNMENT

                    DOESN'T RUN ADS, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO SIGN UP FOR

                    SOCIAL SECURITY.  THEY MAY OCCASIONALLY RUN SOME INFORMATIONAL ADS,

                    BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO MARKET SOMETHING THAT IS AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE

                    FOR THE ASKING.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  OKAY.  AND GOING TO A LITTLE BIT TO THE

                    COST CONTROLS THAT MY COLLEAGUE FROM BEHIND ME JUST MENTIONED AND

                    YOU GIVE A PRETTY THOROUGH EXPLANATION ABOUT -- IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU

                    WERE SAYING THE LEGISLATURE WAS PART OF THAT COST CONTROL WITH THE

                    UPWARD PRESSURE AND THE DOWNWARD PRESSURE; IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE

                    SAYING, THAT THE PEOPLE IN THIS BODY WOULD BE PART OF THAT COST CONTROL?

                    WE WOULD PUT A CAP, ESSENTIALLY?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WE WILL BE, CERTAINLY, AN

                                         68



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    INFLUENTIAL PART OF THE CONSTITUENCY OF THE PLAN, YES.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  SO AT WHAT POINT, WHEN, IF THE COST

                    INFLATES, DO WE SAY WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE NOT GOING TO EXPAND THE COST OF

                    THIS PROGRAM, AND AT WHAT POINT WILL PEOPLE BE DENIED OR DELAYED

                    ACCESS TO THE HEALTH CARE, AS WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER COUNTRIES?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YEAH.  WELL, ACTUALLY, DELAYING

                    AND DENYING CARE, IF YOU LOOK AT STATISTICS OF COUNTRIES AROUND THE

                    WORLD, AMERICA IS ONE OF THE WORST IN TERMS OF PROVIDING -- IN TERMS OF

                    DELAY AND DENIAL OF CARE WITH OUR CURRENT SYSTEM.  MOST COUNTRIES THAT

                    HAVE UNIVERSAL PUBLICLY-FUNDED COVERAGE HAVE DRAMATICALLY BETTER

                    NUMBERS THAN WE DO ON ACCESS TO CARE.  SO, I DON'T THINK WE GET TO A

                    POINT OF -- THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING BECAUSE I DON'T THINK NEW YORKERS

                    ARE GOING TO TELL THEIR LEGISLATORS AND THEIR GOVERNOR THAT THEY WANT THAT

                    TO HAPPEN.  THEY'RE GOING TO TELL THEIR LEGISLATORS AND THEIR GOVERNOR

                    THE OPPOSITE.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  SO YOU DO ENVISION THIS PLAN GROWING

                    AND GROWING AND I KNOW YOU'VE SAID THAT IT WOULD NEED $91 BILLION IN

                    NEW REVENUE, RIGHT, IN ADDITION, BUT YOU ENVISION THE COST OF THIS

                    PROGRAM ACTUALLY GROWING BEYOND THAT, AND YOU NEED TO FUND IT.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, YOU'RE SAYING

                    $91 MILLION IN NEW REVENUE.  INSTEAD OF $135 BILLION COMING OUT OF OUR

                    POCKETS, INSTEAD $91 BILLION WILL COME OUT OF OUR POCKETS.  BY ME,

                    THAT'S NOT $91 BILLION IN NEW, NEW SPENDING OR NEW REVENUE.  BY ME,

                    THAT'S $45 BILLION.  WILL THE COST OF HEALTH CARE CONTINUE TO GROW LIKE

                    THE COST OF BREAD AND RENT AND EVERYTHING ELSE, I'M SURE IT WILL.

                                         69



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. BYRNE:  NOW, I'VE -- I KNOW I'VE HEARD FROM

                    CONSTITUENTS, I KNOW YOU PARTICIPATED IN FORUMS THROUGHOUT THE STATE

                    AND I WASN'T ABLE TO PARTICIPATE PERSONALLY, BUT I WATCHED ONLINE AND I

                    DO APPRECIATE THAT, BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, BOTH

                    PRO AND CON ON THIS LEGISLATION.  THERE'S BEEN BRANDING OF THIS HEALTH

                    PLAN AS "MEDICARE FOR ALL."  DO YOU TRULY BELIEVE THAT'S AN ACCURATE

                    DESCRIPTION, OR IS IT, SINCE YOU'RE SAYING THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY BEYOND

                    MEDICARE, WOULD IT BE MORE ACCURATE TO SAY THIS IS AN EXPANSION OF

                    MEDICAID AND IT WOULD BE MORE OF A "MEDICAID FOR ALL?"

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, I ALWAYS SAY "IMPROVED

                    MEDICARE FOR ALL," BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT THAT MEDICARE DOESN'T COVER.

                    THERE ARE SERVICES IT DOESN'T COVER, THERE IS A -- MEDICARE HAS

                    CO-INSURANCE THAT THE INDIVIDUAL HAS TO PAY.  THAT'S WHY WE ALMOST

                    ALWAYS SAY "IMPROVED MEDICARE FOR ALL."

                                 MR. BYRNE:  AND AS I THINK IT WAS MENTIONED

                    BEFORE BY SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES, THE FUNDING MECHANISM FROM THE

                    FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, YOU WOULD REQUIRE A -- A WAIVER FOR THAT.  IF NOT,

                    YOU SAID THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER WORK AROUND.  CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT

                    AGAIN?  QUICKLY.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.  WE COULD RUN THE NEW

                    YORK HEALTH ACT ESSENTIALLY AS A WRAPAROUND LIKE A MEDICARE GAP

                    POLICY FOR PEOPLE ON MEDICARE.  WE COULD RUN IT AS A GIANT MEDICARE

                    ADVANTAGE PLAN, BUT WITHOUT A RESTRICTED PROVIDER NETWORK, IN WHICH

                    CASE WE WOULD DRAW DOWN THE ENHANCED FUNDING THAT MEDICARE GIVES

                    TO MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS.  IDEALLY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD

                                         70



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    COME TO ITS SENSES AND SAY EVERY MONTH WE'LL SEND YOU A CHECK FOR

                    WHAT WE WOULD HAVE SPENT ON MEDICARE IN NEW YORK AND PUT THAT IN

                    THE NEW YORK HEALTH TANK.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  SO, FOR THE MEDICARE RECIPIENTS TODAY,

                    THIS WOULD -- ALTHOUGH I KNOW YOU BELIEVE IT WOULD BE IMPROVED, THIS

                    WOULD FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE THEIR BENEFITS AND WHAT THEY PAID INTO,

                    RIGHT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  IT WOULD CHANGE THEIR BENEFITS IN

                    THAT THEY WOULD GET COVERAGE FOR A LOT OF THINGS THEY DON'T GET TODAY

                    AND THEY WOULD BE PAYING OUT-OF-POCKET DRAMATICALLY LESS THAN THEY

                    ARE PAYING TODAY.  NO DEDUCTIBLES, NO CO-PAY.  NEW YORK WOULD BE

                    PICKING UP THE PART B PREMIUM.  SO, YES, IT WOULD CHANGE, IT WOULD

                    CHANGE ENORMOUSLY FOR THE BETTER.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  AND IT WOULD BE EXPANDED TO

                    EVERYBODY, BUT YOU DON'T -- YOU'D HAVE EVERYONE PAYING INTO IT RIGHT

                    NOW LIKE I PAY INTO MEDICARE, RIGHT, BUT I'M NOT A BENEFICIARY.  I'M A

                    LITTLE YOUNG FOR THAT RIGHT NOW.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  SO YOU WOULD HAVE -- IT WOULDN'T BE

                    THAT SAME BALANCE AS YOU HAVE WITH THE EXISTING MEDICARE PROGRAM,

                    CORRECT?  WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MR. BYRNE:  SO, YOU'D HAVE EVERYONE PAYING

                    THROUGH THE PAYROLL TAX AND THEIR INCOME TAX, RIGHT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES, ALL 20 MILLION OF US WOULD

                                         71



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    BE CONTRIBUTING TO THE COST OF THE SYSTEM, JUST LIKE ALL NEW YORK

                    TAXPAYERS CONTRIBUTE TO SCHOOL AID AND THE CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM AND

                    PAVING THE STATE HIGHWAYS.  WE ALL PAY FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT EVEN

                    THOUGH THE VAST MAJORITY OF US NEVER USE THEIR SERVICES.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  OKAY.  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                 ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  WHILE I APPLAUD THE -- THE SPONSOR OF

                    THIS LEGISLATION FOR GOING AFTER SUCH A LAUDABLE GOAL OF IMPROVING

                    QUALITY ACCESS AND AFFORDABILITY FOR HEALTH CARE, AGAIN, I STILL DON'T

                    BELIEVE THIS IS THE ANSWER TO -- TO MEET THAT GOAL.  CERTAINLY, WE -- WE

                    WANT TO IMPROVE ACCESS TO CARE, MAINTAIN QUALITY OF CARE, MAKE IT MORE

                    AFFORDABLE, BUT IF -- IF WE CONTINUE TO ADD TO THE CRUSHING TAX BURDEN

                    WHEN WE'RE ALREADY RANKED THE HIGHEST TOTAL TAX STATE IN THE NATION, WE

                    NEED TO DO BETTER.  AND WHEN I LOOK AT THIS BILL, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A

                    LOT OF DIFFERENT BRANDINGS TO IT, WHETHER IT WAS "MEDICARE FOR ALL,"

                    "MEDICAID FOR ALL," I LOOK AT THIS IS AND I LOOK AT THIS AS "ALBANY CARE"

                    AND I THINK WE NEED TO DO BETTER.  AND FOR THE 77 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE

                    WHO LIKE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE PLANS AND USE THAT AS THEIR WAY TO PAY

                    FOR HEALTH CARE, WE SHOULD -- WE SHOULD BE ENCOURAGING CHOICE AND

                    OPTIONS AND FLEXIBILITY.  WE SHOULDN'T BE LIMITING CHOICE.  I MEAN,

                    TODAY'S FLAG DAY.  THIS GREAT COUNTRY IS ABOUT FREEDOM, OPPORTUNITIES

                    AND CHOICE.  I THINK WE SHOULD BE GIVING MORE OPTIONS, NOT TAKING THEM

                    AWAY.

                                 I THINK IT WAS MENTIONED BEFORE BY ONE OF MY

                                         72



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    COLLEAGUES ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THIS STATE DOES, WHETHER IT'S

                    MEDICAID.  I SAW A REPORT FROM THE STATE COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE THAT SAID

                    THAT WE HAD OVER $1 BILLION SPENT ON MEDICAID, THAT THOSE DOLLARS

                    SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SPENT, THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT HAD PRIVATE HEALTH

                    PLANS.  AND WE NEED TO FIX OUR ROADS, WE NEED TO FIX OUR BRIDGES AND

                    OUR SUBWAYS AND I FEEL MAYBE WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON THAT AND ONCE

                    WE GET THAT DONE, MAYBE WE CAN TACKLE HEALTH CARE.  BUT BEFORE WE GET

                    THAT DONE, I'M JUST -- I'M NOT CONFIDENT THAT THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS

                    THE RIGHT -- THE RIGHT GROUP TO TACKLE THIS QUESTION.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. OAKS.

                                 MR. OAKS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. OAKS:  I JOIN MANY OTHERS TODAY IN LISTENING TO

                    THE DEBATE AS WE CONSIDER THIS BILL, BUT I HAVE A NUMBER OF MAJOR

                    CONCERNS ABOUT THIS LEGISLATION.  CERTAINLY, HEALTH CARE, AS MY

                    COLLEAGUE WAS JUST MENTIONING, IT IS EXTREMELY COMPLEX, EXTREMELY

                    DIFFICULT FOR ANY OF US TO GET A GRASP ON, AND CERTAINLY FOR THE

                    INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DELVED INTO THIS ISSUE, CERTAINLY WE'RE ALL

                    CONCERNED ABOUT THE COVERAGE OF NEW YORKERS' ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE.

                                 BUT IF YOU SAID TO ME LET GOVERNMENT DO IT, WE'LL DO IT

                    MORE EFFICIENTLY AND MORE EFFECTIVELY, FOR ME THAT OFTEN DOESN'T

                    COMPUTE.  AND THE EXAMPLES COULD BE LISTED OVER THE YEARS WITH THIS

                    YEAR OF WAYS THAT GOVERNMENT DOESN'T DO IT BEST.  AND THE OVERALL COSTS,

                    AND I LIKE TO LOOK AT THIS FROM A STATE BUDGET PERSPECTIVE FROM COSTS,

                                         73



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    CERTAINLY THE SPONSOR SUGGESTS THERE WILL BE OVERALL SAVINGS.  EARLY

                    ASSUMPTION, THE FIGURE OF $45 BILLION WAS JUST TALKED ABOUT.  MORE

                    RECENT FOCUS THAT IT MAY BE MORE SIMILAR COST AS WHAT THERE IS TODAY.

                    THERE'S SOME OTHERS WHO'VE LOOKED AT THIS WHO WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE

                    COSTS COULD GO NOT LESS, NOT THE SAME, BUT EVEN $140 BILLION HIGHER

                    THAN WHAT THEY ARE TODAY.  SO, IT MAKES ME CONCERNED THAT WE ARE

                    BEING ASKED TO TODAY TO PASS LEGISLATION THAT THERE'S NOT CERTAINTY OR NOT

                    CLOSE TO CLARITY OF WHERE THIS BILL MIGHT TAKE US.

                                 IF YOU LOOK AT NEW YORK STATE, I WAS LOOKING BACK,

                    THE STATE BUDGET WHEN I FIRST STARTED IN THE LEGISLATURE, 1993, $57.9

                    BILLION.  TODAY, IT'S $168.3; IT NEARLY TRIPLED OVER THOSE 26 YEARS.  IF WE

                    DID THIS BILL TODAY USING THE NUMBERS, SOME THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED

                    BY THOSE WHO SPONSOR THIS BILL, WE COULD IN ONE FELL SWOOP DOUBLE OR

                    NEARLY DOUBLE THE STATE BUDGET TO NEARING OR GOING OVER $300 BILLION.

                    IF WE USE THOSE INDIVIDUALS' NUMBERS WHO LOOK AND SAY THIS IS

                    UNDERESTIMATING COSTS, IT COULD ACTUALLY PUSH THE COST OF STATE SPENDING

                    IN TOTAL TO OVER $400 BILLION.  THOSE ARE NUMBERS THAT ARE

                    MIND-BOGGLING TO ME.

                                 ANOTHER THING IS I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IF WE COME UP

                    SHORT.  THIS IS BASED ON A PAYROLL TAX OF BRINGING IN MONEY.  IF WE

                    SHOULD COME UP SHORT ON THE PAYROLL TAX, DOES THIS BILL OR WOULD IT ADD

                    MORE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE BACKS OF THOSE WHO PAY PERSONAL INCOME

                    TAX, SALES TAX -- JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME PERSPECTIVE AS WE'RE THROWING

                    THESE NUMBERS AROUND.  IN THE CURRENT STATE BUDGET, $168.3 BILLION, WE

                    RAISED $59 BILLION FROM THE PIT, THE PERSONAL INCOME TAX, AND AROUND

                                         74



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    $14 BILLION FROM SALES TAX; THAT'S $73 BILLION.  EVEN THE $91 BILLION

                    THAT'S PROPOSED AS A LOW AMOUNT, WE WOULD BE ADDING IN RESOURCES THAT

                    -- THAT WOULD COME TO THE STATE WELL BEYOND WHAT THE PERSONAL INCOME

                    TAX AND THE SALES TAX COMBINED PROVIDE.  ANOTHER THING IS FOR THOSE

                    RATES, WE ARE UNABLE TO GIVE ANY CLARITY.  WHAT RATE WOULD THE EMPLOYER

                    PAY AND WHAT RATE WOULD THE INDIVIDUAL ON OUR PAYROLL TAX, WHAT WOULD

                    WE BE PAYING?  THAT'S CLEAR NOW.  OBVIOUSLY, THAT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO

                    IDENTIFY I'M SURE AT THIS POINT.  THE ONE THING THAT IS CLEAR IS IT SUGGESTS

                    THAT IT WOULD BE PROGRESSIVELY HIGHER RATES FOR THOSE IN THE HIGHER TAX

                    RATE.

                                 SO, WE TAX THE HIGHER INCOME PEOPLE IN NEW YORK AT

                    A HIGHER RATE, A SURCHARGE THAT WE HAVE ON THEM NOW.  FEDERAL TAX

                    REFORM IS TAKING AWAY SOME OF THE DEDUCTIONS AND WHATEVER THAT

                    WOULD -- ARE GOING TO LEAVE THEM PAYING NET OVERALL HIGHER TAXES FROM

                    BEING IN NEW YORK, AND NOW IF WE PASS THIS BILL AND CREATE A PAYROLL

                    TAX, THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE GOING TO BE PAYING, AGAIN, AT A HIGHER RATE.

                    SOME HAVE SUGGESTED WITH THE FIRST TAX THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT HIGHER

                    -- HIGHER INCOME NEW YORKERS STAYING HERE.  CERTAINLY, WITH THE

                    FEDERAL ONE, THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERN BEEN EXPRESSED BY THE EXECUTIVE,

                    BY INDIVIDUALS ON THIS FLOOR; HOW DOES THAT IMPACT THOSE INDIVIDUALS

                    STAYING HERE?  SHOULD WE DO THIS THAT WOULD BE A TRIPLE WHAMMY,

                    WHICH WOULD GIVE THOSE INDIVIDUALS A GREATER REASON TO PERHAPS TAKE

                    THEIR RESOURCES, TAKE THEIR BUSINESS, TAKE THEIR HOME AND MOVE IT TO

                    ANOTHER PLACE.

                                 WHEN I MENTIONED THOSE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS EARLIER,

                                         75



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    $200- OR, YOU KNOW, $168 BILLION NOW MOVING OVER $300-, $400

                    BILLION, I'VE NEVER USED THE WORD -- IN SPEAKING ABOUT THE STATE BUDGET,

                    I'VE NEVER -- I'VE ALWAYS SPOKEN IN MILLIONS AND BILLIONS.  I FEAR THAT MY

                    SUCCESSOR WHO IS GOING TO BE -- AS THE RANKER ON WAYS AND MEANS,

                    SHOULD WE DO THIS, THE STATE BUDGET IS GOING TO BE STARTING TO BE TALKED

                    ABOUT IN THE TERMS OF TRILLIONS.  I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO BE

                    GOING AS A STATE.  I'LL BE CASTING MY VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  YES, THANK YOU, SIR, FOR ALLOWING AN

                    INTERRUPTION.  I'D LIKE TO ASK MEMBERS OF THE WAYS AND MEANS

                    COMMITTEE TO JOIN MS. WEINSTEIN IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM,

                    WAYS AND MEANS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WAYS AND MEANS,

                    SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 MR. ASHBY.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  I WANT TO ECHO WHAT MY COLLEAGUE,

                    MR. OAKS, WAS SAYING AND I THINK WHAT HE'S GETTING AT IS MORAL HAZARD.

                    AND I'D LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A HEALTH CARE

                    EDUCATOR, A CLINICIAN, A THERAPY PRACTICE OWNER AND A PATIENT OF

                    SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE THROUGH OUR VA SYSTEM.

                                 IF WE LOOK AT THIS, OVER THE DECADE, JUST IN THE LAST

                    DECADE, OUR -- OUR VA BUDGET HAS GONE UP TREMENDOUSLY, $93.7 BILLION

                    IN 2009 TO NOW $198.6 BILLION FOR FISCAL YEAR 2019.  IS THIS WHAT WE

                                         76



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WANT TO UNDERTAKE HERE IN NEW YORK?  I THINK WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT

                    WHEN WE MAKE ANY CHANGES TO HEALTH CARE, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE COST,

                    THE ACCESS THAT IT'S GOING TO PROVIDE AND THE QUALITY.  AND MAKING A

                    CHANGE AS DRASTIC AS THIS IS GOING TO HAVE A PROFOUND IMPACT ON ALL OF

                    THOSE THINGS, NOT NECESSARILY THE WAY THAT MAYBE THE DRAFTER INTENDED.

                                 WHEN I WENT TO THE VA LAST YEAR TO GET A BLOOD TEST

                    DONE, BECAUSE I FOUND OUT THAT A CLOTTING DISORDER RAN IN MY FAMILY, I

                    GOT MY BLOOD TEST DONE, THEY RAN A PANEL AND I GOT THE PAPER BACK.  THE

                    REPORT BACK SAID THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO RUN THE TEST BECAUSE I HADN'T

                    HAD A BLOOD CLOT YET.  EVEN THOUGH IT'S HEREDITARY, EVEN THE DISEASE IS

                    HEREDITARY.  SO, THIS IS THE KIND -- THIS IS THE KIND OF STUFF THAT GOES ON

                    IN SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE.  WHO IS THERE TO ADVOCATE FOR ME?  HOW --

                    HOW DO I GO ABOUT GETTING THIS?  WELL, I'M THANKFUL AND I HAVE THE

                    ABILITY TO GO ELSEWHERE PERHAPS AND DO THAT.  UNDER THIS SYSTEM, WOULD

                    THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE CURRENTLY BEING INSURED THROUGH NEW YORK STATE

                    HAVE THAT ABILITY?  HOW WOULD THEY NAVIGATE THIS?  DOES GOVERNMENT

                    HAVE THE TRACK RECORD OF PROVIDING A SERVICE LIKE THAT?  I WOULD

                    CERTAINLY ARGUE NO TO THAT.  AND FOR THAT REASON, MY VOTE WILL BE IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. MELISSA MILLER.

                                 MS. MILLER:  THANK YOU.  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD

                    FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                         77



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MS. MILLER:  THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN.  I TRY TO

                    APPROACH THINGS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A REGULAR PERSON, AND BECAUSE

                    I TYPICALLY REPRESENT SO MUCH OF THE CHRONICALLY ILL/SPECIAL NEEDS

                    POPULATION, I HAVE A FEW TARGETED QUESTIONS THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT

                    MORE DETAILED THAN WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WOULD BE ASKING, SO PLEASE BEAR

                    WITH ME IF YOU WOULD.

                                 YOU SAID THAT UNDER THIS PLAN WE WOULD BE ABLE TO

                    KEEP THE SAME COVERAGE AS OUR CURRENT PLANS.  SO, LET ME BE SPECIFIC, IF

                    I COULD.  FOR SOMEBODY LIKE MY SON, OLIVER, WHO HAS PRETTY COMPLEX

                    LEVELS OF CARE.  HE, FOR INSTANCE, NEEDS LIQUID OXYGEN WHICH INSURANCE

                    WILL COVER, VERSUS AN OXYGEN CONCENTRATOR.  SOMETHING LIKE MEDICAID

                    WILL NOT COVER LIQUID OXYGEN.  WOULD A SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH PLAN COVER

                    A LIQUID OXYGEN SYSTEM?  SOMEBODY WHO IS TYPICALLY ON CHRONIC

                    OXYGEN EVERY SINGLE DAY, AN OXYGEN CONCENTRATOR IS NOT REALLY AN IDEAL

                    SYSTEM.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, THE BILL, OBVIOUSLY, SINCE

                    IT'S LESS THAN 2,000 PAGES LONG, DOES NOT LIST EVERY SERVICE IT COVERS AND

                    EVERY PRODUCT IT COVERS.  IT DOES SAY THAT ANYTHING THAT IS COVERED UNDER

                    OUR HEALTH PLAN AS STATE EMPLOYEES, ANYTHING COVERED BY MEDICARE,

                    ANYTHING COVERED BY MEDICAID, ANYTHING COVERED BY OUR CURRENT STATE

                    INSURANCE LAW MANDATES, ANYTHING COVERED BY -- COVERED BY WORKERS'

                    COMP, BY CAR INSURANCE, AND ANYTHING THAT THE PLAN CHOOSES TO ADD

                    WOULD BE COVERED UNDER THE BILL.

                                 MS. MILLER:  YES, THAT SAYS "OXYGEN" OR "HOME

                                         78



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    OXYGEN."  IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY SPECIFY THE DELIVERY SYSTEMS OF

                    OXYGEN, SO THAT WOULD BE A GLITCH.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  AND YOU MAY -- YOU MAY HAVE A

                    HEALTH PLAN THAT COVERS LIQUID OXYGEN.  I DON'T KNOW THE NATURE OF THE

                    COVERAGE THAT APPLIES TO YOUR SON, BUT I WOULD -- I WOULD VENTURE TO

                    SAY THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN NEW YORK WHO HAVE PRIVATE HEALTH

                    INSURANCE WHO PROBABLY DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO LIQUID OXYGEN.  SO,

                    AGAIN, THE BILL DOES NOT AND COULD NOT AND SHOULD NOT LIST EVERY

                    PRESCRIPTION MEDICATION, EVERY TREATMENT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.  THAT

                    WOULD BE DETERMINED BY THE PLAN.

                                 MS. MILLER:  WELL, MY POINT IS THAT --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WITHIN THE LAW THAT I TALKED

                    ABOUT, THERE IS NO LAW TODAY THAT I KNOW OF THAT ASSURES YOU THAT NEXT

                    YEAR YOUR SON'S COVERAGE WILL CONTINUE TO INCLUDE LIQUID OXYGEN.

                                 MS. MILLER:  MY POINT BEING THAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT

                    THERE WOULD NOT NEED TO BE CHANGES IN CARE FROM YOUR CURRENT PLAN.

                    AND I FEAR FOR A POPULATION OF VERY SICK INDIVIDUALS THAT THERE WOULD

                    VERY MUCH NEED TO BE A CHANGE IN THEIR CARE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, YOU KNOW --

                                 MS. MILLER:  THE NEXT POINT WOULD BE NURSING CARE,

                    PRIVATE DUTY NURSING CARE IN THE HOME.  CURRENTLY --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  BUT, BY THE WAY, JUST BEFORE WE

                    LEAVE THE TOPIC OF LIQUID OXYGEN, LET'S ALL AGREE THAT NEXT YEAR, YOU

                    COULD WAKE UP AND FIND OUT THAT YOUR SON'S INSURANCE COMPANY HAS

                    DECIDED NOT TO COVER LIQUID OXYGEN AND THERE'S NOTHING TODAY THAT NEW

                                         79



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    YORK WOULD BE DOING ABOUT THAT.

                                 MS. MILLER:  OH, BELIEVE ME.  I'VE HAD -- I'VE SPENT

                    MY, YOU KNOW, FAIR SHARE OF BOTH OF MY CHILDREN'S LIVES BATTLING

                    INSURANCE COMPANIES.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  RIGHT.

                                 MS. MILLER:  I HAVE HAD NOTHING BUT BATTLES WITH

                    INSURANCE COMPANIES.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  RIGHT.

                                 MS. MILLER:  I AGREE THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE

                    DONE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  RIGHT.

                                 MS. MILLER:  I'M NOT ARGUING THAT POINT AT ALL.  SO,

                    THAT -- WE'RE ON THE SAME SIDE THERE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  AND THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM

                    DOESN'T ASSURE YOU AT ALL OF ACCESS TO LIQUID OXYGEN, OKAY.

                                 MS. MILLER:  AS FAR AS PRIVATE DUTY NURSING GOES.

                    SO, IT'S NO SECRET THAT THE CURRENT REIMBURSEMENT RATES THROUGH

                    MEDICAID, MEDICARE ARE TOO LOW AND THAT THERE IS A CRITICAL SHORTAGE OF

                    NURSING IN THE HOME CARE ENVIRONMENT.  WOULD THIS PLAN ADDRESS THAT

                    ISSUE AND MAKE THE RATES MORE COMPETITIVE SO THAT THIS POPULATION

                    WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE THE COVERAGE THAT THEY NEED AND THE SUPPORT THAT

                    THEY NEED TO BE IN THE HOME CARE ENVIRONMENT, IN THE HOME

                    ENVIRONMENT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, AS CURRENTLY

                    WRITTEN, THE BILL WOULD NOT REPLACE WHATEVER ARRANGEMENTS ARE IN PLACE

                                         80



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    FOR LONG-TERM CARE.  IT WOULD NOT BE EXPANDED TO INCLUDE LONG-TERM

                    CARE AT THE START, ALTHOUGH I EXPECT THAT AFTER WE GET THE RESULTS OF THE

                    RAND STUDY THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, I INTEND TO AMEND THE BILL

                    TO INCLUDE LONG-TERM CARE AT THE START.

                                 SECONDLY, TODAY THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES THAT

                    ANYBODY'S PAYMENT RATE, WHETHER IT'S MEDICAID OR MEDICARE OR

                    COMMERCIAL COVERAGE, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT THAT YOUR SON'S PRIVATE

                    DUTY NURSE OR ANY OTHER PROVIDER BE PAID AT A RATE THAT IS REASONABLY

                    RELATED TO THE COST OF EFFICIENTLY PROVIDING THE CARE AND AT A HIGH

                    ENOUGH RATE TO ENSURE AN ADEQUATE SUPPLY OF THAT CARE.  THERE IS NO

                    SUCH REQUIREMENT TODAY THAT IS A REQUIREMENT UNDER THE NEW YORK

                    HEALTH ACT.  SO, WHILE, CERTAINLY, THE BILL DOES NOT SAY, BECAUSE IT IS

                    LESS THAN 200 -- 2,000 PAGES, IT DOES NOT SAY WHAT THE SALARY OF A

                    PRIVATE DUTY NURSE WILL BE, IT DOES HAVE LANGUAGE THAT IN ALMOST EVERY

                    CASE, I BELIEVE PARTICULARLY IN THE CASE OF -- OF HOME CARE AS YOU'RE

                    DISCUSSING WOULD RESULT IN HIGHER RATES OF PAY.

                                 MS. MILLER:  SO IT WOULD MAKE HIGHER.  ARE THERE

                    LIMITS TO COVERAGE OR CAPS ON COVERAGE, CARE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  ABSOLUTELY NOT.

                                 MS. MILLER:  NONE.  SO, THERE'S NO $1 MILLION CAP,

                    LIFETIME CAP?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  NO.  NO LIFETIME CAP, NO YEARLY

                    CAP, NOTHING IN THAT BALLPARK.

                                 MS. MILLER:  OKAY.  AND DO YOU HAVE ANY ESTIMATE

                    AT ALL -- AT ALL ON WHAT THE TAX INCREASE WOULD BE?

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, AGAIN, THE REDUCTION IN

                    SPENDING WOULD BE FROM ABOUT $135 BILLION TO ABOUT $91 BILLION; SO,

                    IT'S NOT AN INCREASE, IT'S A REDUCTION.  THE FRIEDMAN REPORT THAT HAS BEEN

                    DISCUSSED HAS SAMPLE BRACKETS AND RATES IN IT.  THE BILL DOESN'T SPECIFY

                    BRACKETS AND RATES FOR THE REASONS I MENTIONED EARLIER, BUT THE BILL --

                    THE REPORT HAS A HYPOTHETICAL SET OF TAXES -- OF BRACKETS AND RATES AND IT

                    IS ON THE BASIS OF THAT SET OF BRACKETS AND RATES THAT WE CONCLUDE THAT

                    98 PERCENT OF NEW YORK HOUSEHOLDS, OR 98 PERCENT OF NEW YORKERS

                    WOULD BE SPENDING LESS THAN THEY ARE TODAY.

                                 I CAN GET YOU A COPY OF THE REPORT AND YOU CAN SEE FOR

                    A GIVEN HOUSEHOLD HOW FOR ALMOST EVERY HOUSEHOLD WHAT THE TAX RATE

                    WOULD BE IS SUBSTANTIALLY LESS THAN THE COST OF HEALTH COVERAGE TODAY.

                                 MS. MILLER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. MILLER:  SO, AS CHAIRMAN GOTTFRIED SAYS, I

                    HAVE LITERALLY BEEN JERKED AROUND BY INSURANCE COMPANIES FOR BOTH OF

                    MY CHILDREN'S ENTIRE LIFE; YET, I DON'T SEE THIS AS AN ANSWER.  I'VE SPENT

                    OVER 20 YEARS BATTLING INSURANCE COMPANIES FOR BOTH OF MY SICK

                    CHILDREN.  I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS CURRENT SYSTEM IS BROKEN AND IN NEED OF

                    SERIOUS CHANGE.  WHAT I LIVE AND HAVE TO FIGHT EVERY SINGLE DAY JUST TO

                    GET THEIR BASIC NEEDS COVERED IS EXHAUSTING AND AWFUL, BUT THIS DOESN'T

                    FIX THIS FOR ALL.  IT'S NOT FOR ALL.

                                 WE'VE BEEN IN THIS MEDICAID SYSTEM FOR A LONG TIME.

                    I'VE EXPERIENCED THE BUREAUCRACY AND THE RED TAPE.  RIDICULOUSLY LONG

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WAIT TIMES FOR AUTHORIZATIONS, FOR APPOINTMENTS, FOR THE PROVIDERS TO

                    GET PAID WITH ABSOLUTELY NO APOLOGIES FOR IT.  THAT'S WHY, AS MY

                    COLLEAGUES HAVE POINTED OUT, THAT'S WITH ONE-THIRD OF THE POPULATION.

                    ONCE THIS IS IMPLEMENTED WITH EVERYBODY, I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE WHAT'S

                    GOING TO HAPPEN.  IT'S FRANKLY VERY SCARY.  YOU SAY THAT ALL NEW

                    YORKERS WILL GET THE SAME COVERAGE, BUT, FRANKLY, NOT ALL NEW YORKERS

                    CAN WAIT FOR THAT CARE.  SO, THAT'S WHY I WILL NOT BE VOTING FOR THIS.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  MR. WALTER.

                                 MR. WALTER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ON THE

                    BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. WALTER:  I FIRST WANT TO ADDRESS, BECAUSE IT'S

                    BEEN MENTIONED A NUMBER OF TIMES, THE FALLACY OF THE MEDICARE COST

                    BEING ONLY 3 PERCENT OR 2 PERCENT ADMINISTRATION.  IT'S JUST NOT REALITY.

                    THINK ABOUT WHAT ISN'T CALCULATED INTO THAT FIGURE, FIRST, OKAY.

                    COLLECTIONS OF PREMIUMS.  THE IRS AND THE SOCIAL SECURITY

                    ADMINISTRATION TAKE THAT; THAT'S OFF BUDGET EXPENDITURES.  HEALTH AND

                    HUMAN SERVICES COVERS ACCOUNTING, AUDITING, FRAUD, BUILDING COST, ALL

                    OF THOSE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS THAT OUR PRIVATE INSURANCE CARRIERS HAVE TO

                    CALCULATE IN THEIR ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS ARE NOT CALCULATED INTO

                    MEDICARE'S ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.

                                 BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE'RE IGNORING WHEN WE

                    TALK ABOUT MEDICARE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS AS A PERCENTAGE IS THAT WE ARE

                    DEALING WITH THE SICKEST POPULATION, OUR SENIORS.  THINK ABOUT THIS.  IF

                                         83



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    YOU SPEND -- IT COSTS THE SAME TO ADMINISTER A PROGRAM NO MATTER WHAT

                    LEVEL OF CARE THAT PERSON NEEDS.  SO, 30 PERCENT -- LET'S SAY IT COSTS $30

                    FOR SOMEONE WHO USES $100 WORTH OF SERVICES.  WELL, THAT'S A 30

                    PERCENT RATE OF ADMINISTRATION COST.  IF THAT SAME PERSON USES $1,000,

                    WILL THAT PERCENTAGE OF ADMINISTRATIVE COST JUST DROP TO 3 PERCENT AND

                    THAT'S HOW WE GET THIS MAGICAL NUMBER OF MEDICARE ONLY COSTING 3

                    PERCENT TO ADMINISTER.  IF WE ACTUALLY LOOK AT A MORE RELEVANT FIGURE,

                    WHICH IS COST-PER-PARTICIPANT, WE FIND THAT OUR PRIVATE INSURERS ARE LESS

                    EXPENSIVE TO -- AS FAR AS ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS GO, THAN OUR MEDICARE

                    RATES ARE.

                                 SO, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE COST OF ADMINISTERING THIS

                    PROGRAM BEING ONLY 2 PERCENT, THAT IS A FALLACY AND THAT IS WHY $91

                    BILLION OF ADDITIONAL REVENUE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE TALKED ABOUT IN THIS

                    SETTING.  REALITY IS IT'S MORE LIKE $225 BILLION ADDITIONAL IN COST.  AND

                    WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT MEDICARE FOR ALL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MEDICAID

                    FOR ALL.  SO, GO BACK TO YOUR DISTRICTS AND TELL ALL OF YOUR PEOPLE WHO

                    ARE ON PRIVATE INSURANCE RIGHT NOW OR MEDICARE THAT WE ARE GOING TO

                    MOVE YOU FROM YOUR MEDICARE POLICY AND YOUR WRAPAROUND COVERAGES

                    AND YOUR PRIVATE INSURANCE, WE'RE TAKING YOU AND PUTTING YOU ON

                    FEE-FOR-SERVICE MEDICAID, BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS PROGRAM IS,

                    FEE-FOR-SERVICE MEDICAID.  AND WHAT HAS BEEN THE PROBLEM WITH

                    FEE-FOR-SERVICE MEDICAID OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES?  IT'S INCREDIBLY

                    EXPENSIVE AND THOSE COSTS GROW EXPONENTIALLY AND THERE -- YOU JUST

                    TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.  WE'VE

                    MOVED AWAY FROM FEE-FOR-SERVICE MEDICAID ON TO MANAGED MEDICAID

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    BECAUSE WE CAN'T AFFORD TO CONTINUE DOWN THAT PATH.

                                 WHAT'S THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH FEE-FOR-SERVICE

                    MEDICAID?  IS OUR PROVIDERS DON'T GET REIMBURSED ENOUGH.  MOST

                    HOSPITALS WILL ADMIT TO YOU THAT THEY SUBSIDIZE THEIR COST OF CARE

                    THROUGH PRIVATE INSURANCE.  THAT'S NOT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT IN THIS EITHER.

                    SO THOSE COSTS THAT WE'RE GOING TO INCUR ARE GOING TO INCREASE

                    EXPONENTIALLY.  WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS.  IT'S INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE.  THE

                    AMOUNT OF TAXES THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE RAISED WILL DRIVE EVERY

                    BUSINESS IN THIS STATE RIGHT OUT THE DOOR.  THERE'S NOTHING LIMITING THE

                    NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT MIGHT COME IN FOR SERVICES.  THERE'S NO

                    RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS OTHER THAN TO SAY, YEAH, I'M HERE FOR -- I'M

                    HERE FOR CARE.  I'M A RESIDENT OF NEW YORK.  YOU MAKE THAT CLAIM, YOU

                    DON'T HAVE TO PROVE CITIZENSHIP, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING.  YOU

                    JUST GET OFF OF THE BUS AND YOU GET YOUR SERVICES.  THAT'S WHAT'S GOING

                    TO HAPPEN.  YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE COMING IN FOR MEDICAL

                    COVERAGE FROM ACROSS THE STATE BORDER AND GOING RIGHT BACK OUT.

                                 THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE STATE OF NEW YORK CAN

                    AFFORD THIS, AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT THE -- OUR CONSTITUENTS WANT TO BE

                    MOVED FROM THEIR PRIVATE INSURANCE COVERAGE AND THEIR MEDICARE

                    COVERAGE ON TO MEDICAID.  AND THINK ABOUT THIS:  WHAT DO YOU SPEND

                    MOST OF YOUR TIME IN YOUR DISTRICTS DOING AS FAR AS CONSTITUENT SERVICE?

                    CUTTING THROUGH RED TAPE.  BATTLING WITH GOVERNMENT AGENCIES TO GET

                    SERVICES FOR OUR CONSTITUENTS.

                                 THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER TALKED ABOUT DOING BATTLE WITH

                    INSURANCE COMPANIES.  JUST THINK ABOUT DOING BATTLE WITH THE STATE OF

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    NEW YORK AND WHAT OUR CONSTITUENTS GO THROUGH ON A DAILY BASIS

                    ALREADY.  NO MATTER WHAT THAT SERVICE IS.  NOW, MAKE IT HEALTH CARE.

                    FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN YOUR DISTRICT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO

                    HELP MANAGE GET THROUGH THAT SYSTEM.  THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T DO THIS

                    BETTER THAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, AND IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T DO IT CHEAPER, AND

                    THAT'S WHY I'M OPPOSED TO THIS BILL AND THAT'S WHY I'LL BE VOTING NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  MR. NORRIS.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME

                    QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  CERTAINLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.  I'M

                    CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT ON SMALL BUSINESSES IN THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK FOR THIS NEW YORK HEALTH ACT, PROPOSED NEW YORK HEALTH ACT.

                    SO, COULD YOU PLEASE SPECIFICALLY EXPLAIN TO ME THE BREAKDOWN TO HOW

                    MUCH THE EMPLOYER WILL PAY AND HOW MUCH THE EMPLOYEE WILL PAY

                    UNDER YOUR PROPOSED PLAN.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, THE PAYROLL TAX WOULD BE

                    PROGRESSIVELY GRADUATED, WHICH MEANS SINCE MOST SMALL BUSINESSES

                    HAVE LOWER-WAGE EMPLOYEES THAN BIG CORPORATIONS, OR CERTAINLY THAT

                    WOULD BE WHERE THEIR WAGES ARE CONCENTRATED, THE PROGRESSIVELY

                    GRADUATED RATE WOULD BE LOWER FOR SMALL BUSINESSES AND FOR THEIR

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    OWNERS, WHO TODAY ARE PROBABLY STRUGGLING IN THE INDIVIDUAL MARKET,

                    WHICH IS THE WORST PLACE TO BE.  UNDER THE BILL, THE PAYROLL TAX WOULD

                    BE PAID 80 PERCENT OR MORE IF THEY CHOOSE BY THE -- BY THE EMPLOYER,

                    20 PERCENT BY THE WORKER.  AND, AGAIN, FOR A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER,

                    THEY TODAY ARE PROBABLY STRUGGLING TO PROVIDE HEALTH INSURANCE FOR

                    THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILY.  THIS WOULD ELIMINATE THAT STRUGGLE.

                    THEY ARE TODAY EITHER STRUGGLING TO PAY FOR THE EXORBITANT COST OF

                    PRIVATE INSURANCE, OR THEY'RE NOT PROVIDING COVERAGE FOR THEIR WORKERS,

                    IN WHICH CASE THEY ARE CONSTANTLY AT RISK OF LOSING GOOD EMPLOYEES TO

                    LARGER EMPLOYERS WHO DO PROVIDE COVERAGE.  THAT WOULD NO LONGER BE

                    A PROBLEM UNDER THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  OKAY.  UNDER THE 20 PERCENT FOR THE

                    EMPLOYEES, WOULD THAT ALSO INCLUDE CAPITAL GAINS AND DIVIDENDS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THE -- THERE WOULD BE A SEPARATE

                    TAX ON NON-PAYROLL INCOME.  AND THAT, OF COURSE, WOULD BE PAID BY THE

                    PERSON EARNING THAT INCOME.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  OKAY.  NOW, UNDER THE AFFORDABLE

                    CARE ACT, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IF YOU HAVE UNDER 50 EMPLOYEES,

                    THERE IS AN EXCEPTION THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO PROVIDE THE -- THE HEALTH

                    CARE TO THE EMPLOYEE.  WOULD THERE BE ANY EXCEPTION FOR SMALL

                    BUSINESSES IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK UNDER YOUR PLAN?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THERE -- DO YOU MEAN WOULD

                    THERE BE AN EXEMPTION FROM PAYING THE TAX?  NO, THERE WOULD NOT.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  WILL THERE BE ANY --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  ALTHOUGH, AS I EXPLAINED, IT

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WOULD BE PER EMPLOYEE, INCLUDING THE OWNER, IT WOULD ALMOST

                    CERTAINLY BE DRAMATICALLY LESS THAN WHAT THEY ARE NOW SPENDING ON

                    HEALTH INSURANCE.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  OKAY.  WELL, WOULD THERE BE, IN TERMS

                    OF THE SMALL BUSINESSES, ANY TAX INCENTIVES OR TAX CREDITS FOR THIS

                    CONTRIBUTION OF THE PAYROLL TAX?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, AS A PAYROLL TAX, EVEN UNDER

                    THE -- THE NEW FEDERAL LAW, IT WOULD BE DEDUCTIBLE FROM FEDERAL TAX FOR

                    THE EMPLOYER.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  OKAY.  AND NOW, IN TERMS OF HOW

                    PREMIUMS ARE PAID NOW IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IT'S USUALLY A FLAT FEE

                    PER POLICY, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING; WOULD THAT BE CORRECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THAT IS CORRECT.  WITHOUT ANY --

                    REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S A POLICY ON A MULTIMILLION DOLLAR CEO OR THE

                    LOWEST PAID RECEPTIONIST OR OTHER WORKER IN THE COMPANY, YES.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  NOW UNDER YOUR PLAN, WILL IT BE A

                    PER-PLAN PAYMENT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  UNDER THE BILL, THERE WOULD --

                    THERE WOULD -- IT WOULD BE A PROGRESSIVELY GRADUATED TAX ON PAYROLL

                    INCOME, SO THAT SOMEONE IN A LOW BRACKET WOULD PAY A VERY SMALL OR

                    ZERO PERCENTAGE, YOUR -- YOUR HIGHER -- THE CHUNK OF INCOME IN -- IN A

                    HIGHER BRACKET WOULD BE TAXED AT A HIGHER RATE.  A CHUNK OF INCOME AT

                    A HIGHER BRACKET THAN THAT WOULD BE TAXED AT A HIGHER RATE.  SO, IT -- THE

                    TAX RATE WOULD BE BASED ON YOUR INCOME.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  SO WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT IF AN

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    EMPLOYER PAYS LOWER WAGE JOBS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, THEY WOULD

                    PAY LESS FOR THE PAYROLL TAX AS A WHOLE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  EXACTLY, YES.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  OKAY.  AND WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY

                    THAT HIGHER PAYING JOBS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, THE EMPLOYER WOULD

                    BE TAXED MORE FOR INCENTIVIZING PEOPLE TO BRING GOOD PAYING JOBS TO

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.  AND, YOU KNOW, I'VE

                    ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT THE -- THE DOLLAR THAT PUTS BREAD ON THE TABLE

                    SHOULD BE TAXED AT A LOWER RATE THAN THE DOLLAR THAT PUTS CAVIAR ON TOAST.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  OKAY.  I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF MORE

                    QUESTIONS, MR. CHAIRMAN.  HOW IS "RESIDENCY" DEFINED WITHIN YOUR

                    PLAN?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  IT -- "RESIDENCY" IS DEFINED AS

                    NEW YORK BEING YOUR PRINCIPAL PLACE OF ABODE AND THE -- THE HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER WOULD BE AUTHORIZED TO MAKE REGULATIONS DEFINING THAT

                    MORE SPECIFICALLY.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  OKAY.  AND THEN IN THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK, WE DO HAVE A LOT OF OUT-OF-STATE INDIVIDUALS WHO COME IN HERE

                    WHO WORK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, WHETHER IT BE PENNSYLVANIA,

                    CONNECTICUT, NEW JERSEY --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  -- HOW WOULD THE OUT-OF-STATE

                    WORKERS BE TREATED UNDER THIS PLAN?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    SAME TAX BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE EMPLOYERS AN INCENTIVE TO ONLY

                    HIRE PEOPLE FROM NEW JERSEY OR CONNECTICUT, OBVIOUSLY.  BUT, BECAUSE

                    THOSE OUT-OF-STATE EMPLOYEES WOULD NOT BE PARTICIPATING IN NEW YORK

                    HEALTH, THE BILL ALLOWS THE EMPLOYER AND THE EMPLOYEE TO DEDUCT FROM

                    THE NEW YORK HEALTH TAX WHAT THEY SPEND ON HEALTH COVERAGE FOR THE

                    WORKER OR FOR THEMSELVES.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  OKAY.  AND WHAT IS THE ANTICIPATED

                    TIME TO ADMINISTER THE NEW YORK HEALTH PLAN, YOUR PLAN?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I'M SORRY, COULD YOU SPEAK A

                    LITTLE --

                                 MR. NORRIS:  I'M SORRY.  HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE FOR

                    THIS PLAN TO BE IMPLEMENTED IF IT WERE TO BE ADOPTED INTO LAW?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WE DON'T KNOW THAT.  I'M SURE IT

                    WILL TAKE LONGER THAN THE IMPLEMENTATION OF MEDICARE, WHICH AS I SAID,

                    IN 1965, IT WAS IMPLEMENTED IN 11 MONTHS, WHICH IS, JUST TO ME,

                    MIND-BOGGLING.  BASED ON EXPERIENCE WITH NEW YORK, I ASSUME IT WILL

                    TAKE A COUPLE OF YEARS TO GET FULLY UP AND RUNNING.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  AND IF AN INDIVIDUAL UNDER YOUR

                    PROPOSED PLAN IS -- IS DENIED A SURGERY OR A TREATMENT, WILL THERE BE AN

                    APPEAL PROCESS, AND WHO WILL BE PART OF THAT APPEAL PROCESS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.  THE EXISTING PROCESS IN THE

                    LAW FOR INTERNAL REVIEW AND EXTERNAL APPEAL, AND THE EXTERNAL APPEAL IS

                    DONE BY AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY, THAT WOULD BE BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YOU'RE WELCOME.

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. NORRIS:  JUST QUICKLY ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  I -- I JUST HAVE GRAVE CONCERNS MYSELF

                    ON BEHALF OF THE CONSTITUENTS AND THE SMALL BUSINESSES IN THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK THAT THIS PROPOSED NEW YORK PLAN, IT'S JUST NOT THE PLAN THAT

                    WILL CREATE A GOOD BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK.  IT HAS GREAT CONCERN, IT ADDS MORE TAXES, IT ADDS MORE

                    BURDENSOME REGULATIONS, IT ADDS MORE FEES, AND WE SIMPLY CANNOT

                    AFFORD THAT IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  AND FOR THAT, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  MR.

                    DIPIETRO.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THANK YOU -- THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WOULD THE CHAIRMAN YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER D. ROSENTHAL:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.  AS A

                    SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, I WAS INTERESTED IN SOME OF THOSE COMMENTS.

                    COULD YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE FURTHER THE 80/20 PERCENT THAT THE EMPLOYER

                    IS GOING TO PICK UP OF THE EMPLOYEES' HEALTH CARE?  YOU MENTIONED THAT

                    IT SAVES THEM MONEY BECAUSE NOW THEY'RE COVERED.  CAN YOU EXPLAIN

                                         91



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    THAT A LITTLE BIT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YEAH.  IF YOU -- IF YOU'VE GOT AN

                    EMPLOYEE -- LET'S SAY YOU'VE GOT AN EMPLOYEE WHO IS AT THE -- MORE OR

                    LESS THE -- THE MEDIAN INCOME -- OR MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME IN NEW

                    YORK, WHICH IS, I THINK, ABOUT $60- OR $70,000, TODAY, HEALTH COVERAGE

                    FOR THAT WORKER COSTS ABOUT... IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 15 OR 20 PERCENT

                    OF PAYROLL.  UNDER THE NEW YORK HEALTH TAX, IT WOULD BE MORE LIKE

                    ABOUT 6 OR 8 PERCENT OF PAYROLL BECAUSE IT'S A PROGRESSIVELY GRADUATED

                    TAX.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THIS IS -- BUT THIS IS FOR SMALL

                    BUSINESSES THAT PROVIDE HEALTH INSURANCE TODAY, CORRECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, IT'S FOR ANY SMALL BUSINESS.

                    AS I SAID, IF THEY'RE -- IF THEY'RE NOT PROVIDING COVERAGE TODAY, THEN THE

                    OWNER OF THE COMPANY IS EITHER GOING WITHOUT HEALTH COVERAGE, OR

                    BUYING IT IN THE INDIVIDUAL MARKET FOR HIMSELF OR HERSELF AND FAMILY, IN

                    WHICH CASE THEY'RE PAYING AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY.  AND IT ALSO

                    MEANS THEY ARE CONSTANTLY AT RISK OF LOSING GOOD EMPLOYEES WHO THEY

                    TRAIN TO JOBS WHERE THEY CAN GET HEALTH COVERAGE.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  WHAT -- WHAT'S -- WHAT IS YOUR

                    NUMBER PER EMPLOYEE OF THE SAVINGS, SAY PER MONTH?  IS IT -- THAT THE

                    EMPLOYEE IS -- THE EMPLOYER IS GOING TO PICK UP?  IS IT ABOUT $400 PER

                    EMPLOYEE?  WHAT WERE THE NUMBERS ON THAT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, AGAIN, IT -- IT DEPENDS ON

                    THE EMPLOYEE'S INCOME.  THE HYPOTHETICAL BRACKETS AND RATES THAT ARE IN

                    PROFESSOR FRIEDMAN'S STUDY WOULD SAY THAT FOR A -- IF I'M RECALLING

                                         92



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    CORRECTLY, THAT FOR A MEDIAN INCOME WORKER, WHICH IS TO SAY SOMEONE

                    MAKING $60-, $70,000 A YEAR, THE TAX WOULD BE 6 TO 8 PERCENT OF -- OF

                    THE WORKER'S PAYROLL INCOME.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  WHAT ABOUT THE BUSINESSES, LIKE

                    MYSELF, THAT EMPLOY A LOT OF PART-TIME WORKERS, WE WOULD STILL BE -- THE

                    EMPLOYEE -- THE EMPLOYEE -- EXCUSE ME, THE EMPLOYER WOULD STILL BE

                    RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT FULL HEALTH CARE COVERAGE PAYMENT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, IF THEY'RE WORKING

                    PART-TIME, THEY'RE GETTING PAID A LOT LESS THAN A FULL-TIME WORKER,

                    PROPORTIONALLY, AND THE TAX RATE WOULD BE BASED ON THE AMOUNT ON -- ON

                    OF THEIR PAYROLL INCOME.  SO, IF A FULL-TIME WORKER IS MAKING $60,000,

                    THE TAX WOULD BE A LOT HIGHER THAN ON A PART-TIME WORKER WHO IS

                    MAKING SAY, $30,000.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  RIGHT.  LET'S -- SO HYPOTHETICALLY,

                    LET'S SAY, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S -- I THINK THE NUMBER IS OVER -- WELL OVER

                    50 PERCENT OF SMALL BUSINESSES, I THINK IT'S ABOUT 52 OR SOMETHING,

                    DON'T OFFER HEALTH INSURANCE TO THEIR EMPLOYEES.  SO, WHEN YOU SAID

                    LIKE SOMEONE LIKE ME WOULD SAVE MONEY BECAUSE I'M IN THE

                    MARKETPLACE AT THE HIGH RATE, IF I HAVE 10 OR 12 -- LET'S SAY 10

                    EMPLOYEES, AND I'M GOING TO PICK UP APPROXIMATELY, SAY $400 A MONTH

                    FOR EACH ONE, THAT'S $4,000 TIMES 12, JUST DOING A QUICK MATH, THAT'S

                    ABOUT $48,000 MY BUSINESS WILL HAVE TO PICK UP, VERSUS RIGHT NOW IF

                    I'M JUST INSURING MYSELF, WOULD BE ABOUT $11,000 TO $12,000.  SO, I AM

                    GOING -- MY BUSINESS IS NOW GOING TO TAKE ON A $36-, $38,000-A-YEAR

                    HIT, A SMALL BUSINESS.  THAT COULD PUT ME OUT OF BUSINESS.  SO, I'M

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    TRYING TO RUN THOSE NUMBERS.  MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME WITH THAT.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T KNOW

                    ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR FAMILY SITUATION, BUT IF A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER IS

                    TRYING TO COVER HIS OR HERSELF AND FAMILY, THEY'RE GOING TO BE SPENDING A

                    LOT MORE THAN $11,000 A YEAR.  SECOND OF ALL, THEIR WORKERS, WHEN THEY

                    GO OUT TO TRY TO RECRUIT WORKERS AND THEY'RE NOT OFFERING HEALTH

                    COVERAGE, THEIR WORKERS KNOW THAT THE SALARY IS WORTH A LOT LESS

                    BECAUSE THEY'RE EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO GO WITHOUT HEALTH COVERAGE OR

                    THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY OUT-OF-POCKET FOR THAT

                    HEALTH COVERAGE.  AND AS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, YOU'VE GOT A MUCH

                    HIGHER RATE OF TURNOVER, WHICH IS NOT GOOD FOR A BUSINESS, FROM WHAT I

                    HEAR, BECAUSE YOU'RE CONSTANTLY LOSING PEOPLE TO COMPANIES THAT

                    PROVIDE COVERAGE.  SO, YES, THERE WOULD BE A FEW PERCENTAGE POINT

                    INCREASE IN YOUR PAYROLL COSTS BECAUSE YOU'LL BE PAYING MAYBE 6 OR 7

                    PERCENT ON TOP OF WHATEVER THE CURRENT PAYROLL IS.  BUT, YOU'LL BE SAVING

                    MONEY ON YOUR OWN COVERAGE, AND YOU'LL HAVE A MUCH MORE STABLE AND

                    LOYAL WORKFORCE.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S PIE IN

                    THE SKY THINKING, THAT PEOPLE IN SMALL BUSINESS ARE GOING TO JUST

                    AUTOMATICALLY ACCEPT THAT -- THAT PAYROLL INCREASE.  AND I CAN TELL YOU

                    RIGHT NOW THAT IN MY BUSINESS, IT -- ANOTHER $30- TO $40,000 HIT BY THE

                    GOVERNMENT WOULD BE OUT OF BUSINESS AND THAT WOULD PUT

                                         94



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    APPROXIMATELY 10 PEOPLE OUT OF -- OUT OF EMPLOYMENT.  FIFTY TO 60

                    PERCENT OF SMALL BUSINESSES UNDER 25 EMPLOYEES DON'T OFFER INSURANCE.

                    SO, NOW YOU'RE MANDATING THAT THEY DO, AND THEN SAYING, WELL, YOU

                    KNOW WHAT?  YOU'LL KEEP YOUR WORKERS.  WELL, FOUR OF MY WORKERS HAVE

                    WORKED FOR ME OVER 30 YEARS, SO I DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM.  AND A LOT

                    OF SMALL BUSINESSES DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM.

                                 SO, AGAIN, THAT'S ALL HYPOTHETICAL THEORY, BUT WHEN

                    YOU'RE IN THE REAL WORLD, EMPLOYERS ARE GOING TO GET WHACKED AND THE

                    JOBS ARE GOING TO DRY UP.  I WOULD PREDICT WITH OVER 50 PERCENT OF THE

                    SMALL BUSINESSES THAT DON'T OFFER INSURANCE, WHEN THEY GET STUCK WITH

                    THIS MANDATE, YEAH, THEY'RE GOING TO SAVE A COUPLE THOUSAND ON THEIR

                    INSURANCE, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE PICKING UP ANYWHERE FROM $30- TO

                    $70,000 THAT MOST SMALL BUSINESSES OPERATE ON A MARGIN OF ABOUT $50-

                    TO $100,000 PROFIT.  MOST SMALL BUSINESSES PEOPLE DON'T MAKE A LOT OF

                    MONEY, THE MA AND PA STORES, LIKE I AM, THAT'S WHAT THEY LIVE ON.  AND

                    WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU'RE PUTTING THEM OUT OF BUSINESS.  AUTOMATICALLY,

                    WITHIN A YEAR, THEY'LL BE GONE.  THAT'S NOT HYPOTHETICAL, THAT'S FACT.

                    BECAUSE I'VE RUN THE NUMBERS.  SO, THAT AND A LOT OF OTHER REASONS, I'LL

                    BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I WANT TO SPEAK ON THE BILL

                    BEFORE --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                                         95



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    GOTTFRIED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.  THANK YOU.  YOU KNOW,

                    WE'VE -- WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF NUMBERS TODAY THAT, WHEN YOU LOOK

                    UNDERNEATH THE NUMBER, THEY TURN OUT NOT TO SAY WHAT -- WHAT'S

                    CLAIMED.  YOU KNOW, THE -- THE NUMBER ABOUT CALIFORNIA BEING $400

                    BILLION, IT TURNS OUT THAT ACTUALLY IF YOU LOOK AT THE CALIFORNIA NUMBER,

                    AND WHAT IT REALLY SAYS ABOUT STATE SPENDING, IT'S ACTUALLY ALMOST

                    COMPLETELY CONSISTENT WITH MY ESTIMATE THAT NEW YORK WOULD BE

                    SPENDING, $91 BILLION INSTEAD OF $135 BILLION.

                                 YOU KNOW, WE -- WE DO -- WE WERE JUST HEARING ABOUT

                    SMALL BUSINESS.  YOU HAVE TO WONDER, THE EMPLOYEES WHO'VE BEEN

                    GOING WITHOUT EMPLOYER HEALTH COVERAGE FOR 30 YEARS OR SO, HOW IS

                    THEIR HEALTH CARE BEING PAID FOR?  IS -- ARE THEY GOING TO THE HOSPITAL

                    UNINSURED, AND OUR HEALTH CARE PREMIUMS ARE SUBSIDIZING THE HOSPITAL

                    TO PROVIDE THEM CARE?  ARE THEY STRUGGLING TO PAY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE

                    OUT-OF-POCKET?  IN WHICH CASE, WE'RE REALLY DEPRIVING A LOT OF OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS OF THE ABILITY TO EARN A LIVING.  ARE THEY -- ARE SOME OF

                    THEM ON MEDICAID?  IN WHICH CASE OUR LOCAL PROPERTY TAXPAYERS ARE

                    PAYING FOR THEIR HEALTH COVERAGE.

                                 YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ASK WHETHER, YOU KNOW, COULD

                    GOVERNMENT DO THIS?  ALL I CAN SAY IS IT'S A GOOD THING THAT IN THE 1780S

                    WE DIDN'T HAVE AN EDUCATION INSURANCE INDUSTRY OUT PUBLISHING REPORTS

                    SAYING THAT, OH, MY GOD, IF WE TRY TO HAVE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND WE TELL

                    PEOPLE, DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILD GOING TO A GOVERNMENT SCHOOL?  WE

                    WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN THIS STATE.  I DON'T KNOW

                                         96



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    ANYBODY IN THIS CHAMBER WHO HAS RUN FOR THE ASSEMBLY ON A PLATFORM

                    THAT IT'S HIGH TIME THAT WE GET RID OF THOSE GOVERNMENT-RUN AND

                    GOVERNMENT-FUNDED SCHOOLS, AND GO BACK TO HAVING EVERYBODY BUY

                    THEIR OWN EDUCATION FOR THEIR CHILDREN.  IF ANYBODY IS THINKING OF

                    RUNNING ON THAT PLATFORM THIS YEAR, I'D BE INTERESTED IN HEARING ABOUT IT.

                    I DON'T THINK SO.

                                 I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYBODY SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE FIRE

                    DEPARTMENT, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS, AND THEY'RE ALL

                    CIVIL SERVANTS, AND MY GOD, SOME OF THEM ARE UNION, YOU KNOW, WE

                    NEED TO GET CORPORATE FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND LET EVERYBODY PAY TO HAVE

                    THEIR OWN FIRE PUT OUT.  I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYBODY CAMPAIGN ON THAT

                    PLATFORM.

                                 YOU KNOW, I STARTED OUT BY SAYING THAT EVERY -- EVERY

                    NEW YORKER SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THE HEALTH CARE THEY NEED, AND THAT

                    NO NEW YORKER SHOULD HAVE TO SUFFER FINANCIALLY TO GET IT.  NOBODY

                    TODAY HAS DISAGREED WITH THAT PROPOSITION, THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE

                    ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE AND NOBODY SHOULD HAVE TO SUFFER FINANCIALLY TO

                    GET IT.  NOBODY HERE TODAY, OR IN ANY OTHER FORUM THAT I'VE EVER HEARD

                    OF, HAS COME UP WITH A PROPOSAL THAT MEETS THAT TEST, THAT MAKES SURE

                    THAT EVERY NEW YORKER GETS HEALTH COVERAGE, AND THAT THEY WON'T HAVE

                    TO SUFFER FINANCIALLY TO GET IT.  I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYONE, IN ALL THE YEARS

                    I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE, COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE THAT

                    MEETS THAT TEST.

                                 NOT EVERY CONSULTING FIRM, THE RAND CORPORATION,

                    THE URBAN INSTITUTE, LOTS OF PEOPLE THAT MAKE MORE THAN ALL OF US

                                         97



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    COMBINED AS CONSULTANTS, NOT EVERY ONE OF THEM HAS COME UP WITH

                    SAVINGS ESTIMATES AS SUBSTANTIAL AS THE -- AS THE NUMBERS THAT I THINK

                    ARE REAL.  BUT EVERY ONE OF THEM THAT I'VE EVER HEARD OF, BY ANY CREDIBLE

                    STUDY OR CONSULTING FIRM, EVERY ONE OF THEM SAYS THAT IF YOU WANT TO --

                    IF YOU WANT TO PROVIDE UNIVERSAL HEALTH COVERAGE, THERE IS NOTHING THAT

                    DOES IT, OR THAT DOES AT AS EFFICIENTLY AND COST-EFFECTIVELY AS A

                    SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH PLAN.  SOME OF THEM SAY, WELL, YOU'RE NOT REALLY

                    GOING TO HAVE A SAVINGS, YOU'RE KIND OF GOING TO BREAK EVEN.  AND I

                    WOULD SAY THAT'S NOT AS GOOD AS SAVING $45 BILLION A YEAR FOR NEW

                    YORKERS?  BUT EVEN IF WE BREAK EVEN, BUT NOBODY HAS TO GO WITHOUT

                    HEALTH CARE, NOBODY HAS TO SAY, I'VE GOT THIS PAIN BUT, YOU KNOW, IF I

                    IGNORE IT IT'LL GO AWAY, AND I CAN'T MEET THE DEDUCTIBLE, AND SIX MONTHS

                    LATER THEY'RE DEAD, IF BREAKING EVEN MEANS THAT NEVER HAS TO HAPPEN

                    AGAIN TO ANYBODY'S MOTHER OR FATHER OR CHILD IN NEW YORK, I'D BE

                    HAPPY TO BE THE SPONSOR OF A BILL THAT DOES THAT.

                                 AND TODAY, THE LEADING CAUSE OF PERSONAL

                    BANKRUPTCIES IS HEALTH CARE COSTS.  IF THE WORST YOU CAN SAY ABOUT THE

                    NEW YORK HEALTH ACT IS IT WILL BREAK EVEN, BUT NOBODY IN NEW YORK

                    WILL EVER AGAIN HAVE TO GO BANKRUPT FOR HEALTH CARE COSTS, THAT WOULD

                    BE A GOOD DAY.  AND WHEN TAXATION AND FINANCE TELLS US THAT 140,000

                    NEW YORK TAXPAYERS SPEND MORE THAN HALF THEIR INCOME IN A YEAR ON

                    HEALTH CARE COSTS, AND 96,000 NEW YORKERS SPEND MORE THAN 100

                    PERCENT OF THEIR INCOME ON HEALTH CARE COSTS, IF EVEN A HEALTH PLAN THAT

                    BREAKS EVEN MEANS THAT THAT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN, THAT'S PRETTY GOOD.

                                 AND SO AGAIN I SAY, DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN

                                         98



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    ALTERNATIVE?  IF THEY HAVE, THEY'VE BEEN HIDING IT UNDER A ROCK.  IF YOU

                    BELIEVE THAT EVERY NEW YORKER HAS A RIGHT TO HEALTH CARE, AND IF YOU

                    BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO SUFFER FINANCIALLY TO GET IT, AND IF

                    NOBODY HAS OFFERED A PLAN THAT GETS YOU CLOSE TO THAT AT ALL, AND

                    CERTAINLY NOT AT ANYWHERE NEAR AS EFFICIENTLY AND COST-EFFECTIVELY AS THE

                    NEW YORK HEALTH ACT -- EVEN THE CONSULTANTS WHO DON'T THINK WE'RE

                    GOING TO SAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, EVEN IF YOU AGREE WITH THOSE

                    CONSULTANTS, GETTING THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT ENACTED WILL BE A PRETTY

                    GOOD DAY FOR NEW YORKERS.

                                 I THINK EVERYBODY WANTS A MAKE A LIVING AND GET TO

                    KEEP SOME OF IT AND BE TREATED WITH FAIRNESS AND RESPECT.  THE WAY WE

                    PAY FOR HEALTH CARE TODAY DOES NOT DO THAT.  A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM

                    WOULD TREAT EVERY NEW YORKER, EVERY PATIENT, EVERY DOCTOR, EVERY

                    EMPLOYER, EVERY TAXPAYER WITH FAIRNESS AND RESPECT AND ENABLE US ALL TO

                    MAKE A LIVING AND GET TO KEEP SOME OF IT.  I AM DELIGHTED TO HAVE THE

                    OPPORTUNITY, AGAIN, IN A COUPLE OF MOMENTS, TO VOTE YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. ORTIZ TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. ORTIZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING

                    ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WOULD LIKE TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION, THE SINGLE-PAYER PLAN.  I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE --

                                         99



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    A STEP FORWARD PLANS TO ENSURE THAT EVERY NEW YORKER IN NEW YORK

                    STATE WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE A PLAN THEY DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT WHEN

                    THERE'S ONE PARTICULAR ISSUE, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH PREEXISTING

                    CONDITION.  PREEXISTING CONDITION HAS BEEN UNDER THE ATTACK IN

                    WASHINGTON.  THE OBAMACARE HAS BEEN UNDER THE ATTACK IN

                    WASHINGTON.  AS WE CONTINUE TO SEE ALL THESE FLOURISHING FROM

                    WASHINGTON, NEW YORK STATE SHOULD BE THE LEAD, AND BEGIN TO LEAD IN

                    ORDER TO HAVE A SINGLE-PAYER PLAN IN NEW YORK THAT IS FOR ALL NEW

                    YORKERS.  AS WE ARE STANDING HERE TODAY DEBATING THIS BILL, AND I'M

                    LISTENING TO THE NUMBERS AND -- AND LISTENING TO ALL THE RHETORIC THAT IS

                    COMING OUT, ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THING THAT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS

                    THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANY ARE THE ONE THAT IS TREATING US, NOT THE

                    DOCTOR.  WHEN WE GO TO THE -- TO THE DOCTOR, MOST OF THE INSURANCE

                    COMPANY ARE THE ONE WHO MAKING THE DECISION ON WHAT IS GOOD FOR US

                    AND WHAT IS BAD FOR US.  AT SOME POINT, MOST OF THE BAD STUFF IS WHAT IS

                    GOOD FOR US, ACCORDING TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY DILEMMA.  SO,

                    THEREFORE, MR. SPEAKER, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO APPLAUD THE SPEAKER FOR

                    BRINGING THIS TO THE FLOOR.  I HOPE THAT WE WILL SEE THE LIGHT AT THE END OF

                    THE TUNNEL, WHERE THIS BILL FINALLY CAN BECOME TO BE REAL IN NEW YORK

                    STATE AND GIVE EVERY SINGLE ONE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE TREATED WITH

                    RESPECT.  AND, THEREFORE, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ORTIZ IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. RAIA.

                                 MR. RAIA:  THANK YOU -- THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I

                                         100



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    COMMEND THE SPONSOR.  HE -- HE IS TAKING A -- THINKING BOLD, THINKING

                    LARGE, HAS BEEN AT THIS FOR A LONG TIME.  YOU KNOW, IF HE COULD

                    GUARANTEE THOSE NUMBERS, I'D CO-SPONSOR THE BILL.  THE PROBLEM IS,

                    MANY OF THOSE NUMBERS COME FROM AN ECONOMIST THAT EVEN PRESIDENT

                    CLINTON AND OBAMA'S ADVISORS CALL "EXTREME" AND HAVE NO CREDIBLE

                    ECONOMIC EVIDENCE.  WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ECONOMIST THAT A NOBEL

                    PRIZE WINNING ECONOMIST PAUL KRUGMAN CALLED "HORRIFYING."  WE'RE

                    TALKING ABOUT AN ECONOMIST WHO, IN HIS OWN WORDS, SAYS HE HAS A

                    DIFFERENT WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS.  IF WE WEREN'T THE TEST CASE, I'D FEEL

                    A LOT MORE COMFORTABLE.

                                 BUT UNDER THIS BILL, IT WILL TRIPLE THE SIZE OF OUR

                    ECONOMY -- 85 PERCENT OF EVERY DOLLAR WILL BE SPENT ON DOCTORS' VISITS.

                    WHEN ME FIND OUT THAT THE PROJECTIONS DON'T WORK, WHERE'S THAT MONEY

                    GOING TO COME FROM?  I'M GOING TO TELL YOU:  EDUCATION; IT'S GOING TO

                    COME FROM OUR INFRASTRUCTURE; IT'S GOING TO COME FROM OUR PUBLIC

                    PROTECTION.  THOSE NUMBERS GO DOWN.  AND WE SEE THAT EVERY TIME WE

                    HAVE A DEFICIT, THOSE AREAS TAKE A HIT.

                                 THEN THERE'S THE PROBLEM OF LOSING OVER 150,000 JOBS.

                    MAYBE THOSE PEOPLE VOTING YES SHOULD ACTUALLY TAKE A LOOK AT HOW

                    MANY JOBS ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED IN THEIR DISTRICT BEFORE THEY VOTE YES

                    AND ASK THEMSELVES, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO TELL THEIR CONSTITUENTS THAT

                    WILL NO LONGER HAVE A JOB?  THAT THEY HAVE TO SACRIFICE FOR THE GREATER

                    GOOD?  WE HAVE 20 MILLION PEOPLE IN NEW YORK STATE.  THERE'S

                    900,000 OR SO UNINSURED.  THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT

                    SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE STATE GETS TAKEN CARE OF.

                                         101



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MEDICAID FOR ALL IS NOT THE ANSWER.  I'VE TALKED TO

                    COUNTLESS PEOPLE ON MEDICAID, THEY HATE THE PROGRAM.  THEY HAVE

                    TROUBLE GETTING TO SEE DOCTORS, SPECIALTY DOCTORS.  WE ARE GOING TO SEND

                    THOUSANDS OF JOBS FLEEING NEW YORK STATE.  THINK ABOUT THAT.  THANK

                    YOU.  I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  MR. -- MS. GLICK,

                    EXCUSE ME.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  WE STAND ALONE IN ALL OF THE INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS BY NOT

                    HAVING THIS TYPE OF UNIVERSAL COVERAGE AND AN ADMINISTRATED

                    GOVERNMENT PLAN.  WHEN PEOPLE WERE ALL LOSING THEIR MINDS OVER

                    OBAMACARE, THEY WERE STANDING OUT THERE, SAVE MY MEDICARE, KEEP

                    GOVERNMENT OFF MY HEALTH CARE.  BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW THEIR

                    MEDICARE WAS A GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED PROGRAM.  WE WOULD BE

                    SAVING INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SMALL BUSINESSES THAT CAN'T QUALIFY AS A

                    GROUP, WHO PAY THROUGH THE NOSE, HAVE TO HAVE ENORMOUS -- THEY --

                    DEDUCTIBLES, JUST TO HAVE CATASTROPHIC COVERAGE.  WE KNOW THAT IF

                    PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE EARLIER ON, THEY WILL, IN FACT, BE

                    HEALTHIER.  WE POUR MONEY, IN THIS COUNTRY, OUT THE DOOR AND WE DON'T

                    HAVE THE BEST MEDICAL OUTCOMES IN THE WORLD.  THAT IS LEFT TO OTHER

                    COUNTRIES THAT HAVE PROGRAMS LIKE THIS.

                                 SO -- AND, OF COURSE, LARGE CORPORATIONS THAT HAVE LOTS

                    OF PART-TIME WORKERS, KEEPING THEIR SALARIES LOW, WE PAY FOR THOSE FOLKS

                    BECAUSE THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR MEDICARE (SIC).  THEY'RE WILLING TO WORK,

                    BUT THE CORPORATION ISN'T WILLING TO PAY FOR THEIR HEALTH BENEFITS.  THIS

                                         102



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    IS AN APPROPRIATE MEASURE FOR AN ENLIGHTENED 21ST CENTURY STATE.  I AM

                    PROUD TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. CAHILL.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I APPLAUD

                    THE SPONSOR, THE LEAD SPONSOR OF THIS MEASURE AND APPLAUD HIS STAYING

                    POWER FOR CARRYING THIS BILL.  IT PASSED THE FIRST TIME IN 1992 IN THIS

                    HOUSE, THAT IS A LONG TIME AGO, AND I APPLAUD HIM FOR HIS CONTINUED

                    WORK ON THIS LEGISLATION.  AND I ALSO APPLAUD MY COLLEAGUES WHO ON

                    THE FLOOR TODAY POINTED OUT TO US, VERY ACCURATELY, THAT THIS IS NOT GOING

                    TO BE SIMPLE; THAT IT IS NOT GOING TO BE EASY, AND THAT THIS MEASURE IS

                    NOT PERFECT.

                                 BUT I WOULD ASK US ALL TO LOOK AT THE ALTERNATIVES.  GO

                    BACK HOME, YOUR HOSPITALS ARE COLLAPSING.  TALK TO YOUR FAMILY PRACTICE

                    DOCTORS, THEY ARE GOING BANKRUPT.  TALK TO THE SMALL EMPLOYER WHO HAD

                    JUST MADE THE WRENCHING DECISION THAT HE CAN NO LONG -- HE OR SHE CAN

                    NO LONGER PROVIDE INSURANCE FOR HIS OR HER EMPLOYEES.  TALK TO THE

                    FOLKS WHO DESIGN THESE SYSTEMS AND ASK THEM WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS.

                    TALK TO YOUR COUNTY LEGISLATORS AND ASK THEM WHAT'S BANKRUPTING THEIR

                    BUDGET.  LOOK AT OUR OWN BUDGET, AND LOOK AT WHAT IS GROWING IN OUR

                    BUDGET, NOT JUST OUR MEDICAID COSTS, BUT OUR EMPLOYEE HEALTH

                    INSURANCE COSTS ARE GROWING BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS.  THIS BILL DOESN'T

                    SPEND ONE PENNY MORE.  THIS BILL ORGANIZES THE SPENDING THAT WE

                    ALREADY HAVE.

                                 IT IS A NOT A PERFECT SOLUTION.  IT IS NOT A SIMPLE

                    SOLUTION, BUT HOW MUCH LONGER ARE WE GOING TO WAIT FOR THE FEDERAL

                                         103



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    GOVERNMENT TO COME IN AND RESCUE US?  HOW MUCH LONGER DO WE HAVE

                    TO WONDER WHETHER THE HEALTH CARE THAT WE PAY FOR WILL BE THERE WHEN

                    WE NEED IT?  A VOTE YES ON THIS BILL IS AN ANSWER YES TO THE QUESTION OF

                    WHETHER HEATH CARE WILL BE HERE WHEN WE NEED IT, FOR US, FOR OUR

                    PARENTS, FOR OUR CHILDREN.  I URGE A YES VOTE, AND I VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  MR. BARRON.

                                 MR. BARRON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS A VERY, VERY TIMELY BILL.  YOU

                    KNOW, THERE ARE COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD, THIS GOVERNMENT HAS AS 4

                    TRILLION BUDGET, $4-PLUS TRILLION, YET, LITTLE COUNTRIES LIKE CUBA,

                    STRUGGLING COUNTRIES IN AFRICA, STRUGGLING COUNTRIES IN LATIN AMERICA

                    AND EUROPE, ALL CAN PROVIDE HEALTH CARE, FREE, SINGLE-PAYER, FOR THEIR

                    CITIZENS, BUT THIS COUNTRY CAN'T.  NO, I THINK THIS WILL HELP SMALL

                    BUSINESSES.  IT WOULD HELP INDIVIDUALS.  IT SURELY WOULD STOP

                    BANKRUPTCY, OR PUT A HALT TO SOME OF THE HEALTH-RELATED BANKRUPTCY.

                    THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.  I JUST WISH WE WOULD JUST TAX THE RICH

                    ONLY, AND NOT US, LET THEM PAY FOR EVERYTHING, DIVIDENDS AND... AND

                    CAPITAL GAINS, LET THEM PAY THE WHOLE THING, AND THEN TELL US THAT THEY'RE

                    GOING TO LEAVE, WHICH THEY NEVER DO.  OR SAY THAT IT'S GOING TO SHUT

                    BUSINESSES DOWN AND EVERYBODY'S GOING TO BE UNEMPLOYED.  IT NEVER

                    HAPPENS.  YOU KNOW, THOSE BASELESS FEARS THAT THEY ALWAYS SUBSCRIBE TO

                    OUR BILLS THAT NEVER, EVER HAPPEN.

                                 SO, YES, CORPORATIONS ARE LEAVING, BUT SOME ARE

                    COMING IN.  THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.  AND IT'S AN IMPROVED

                                         104



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    MEDICARE OVERALL, IMPROVED MEDICARE FOR ALL, AND I COMPLIMENT THE

                    SPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. MILLER.

                                 MS. MILLER:  THANK YOU.  I DO THANK THE SPONSOR

                    FOR RECOGNIZING THAT A CHANGE NEEDS TO BE MADE.  I REALLY DO.  I BELIEVE

                    THAT THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY IS BROKEN.  AS I SAID, I'VE BEEN BATTLING THIS

                    FOR MOST OF MY ADULT LIFE.  BUT, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE I'VE

                    SPOKEN WITH, FROM FAMILY MEMBERS WHO'VE LIVED OVERSEAS, FRIENDS ON

                    FACEBOOK WITH SICK CHILDREN THAT COME HERE TO GET APPOINTMENTS WITH

                    SPECIALISTS BECAUSE OF THE ENORMOUS WAIT TIMES WHERE THEY LIVE; THAT

                    THEY JUST CAN'T WAIT WHEN THEY HAVE A SICK FAMILY MEMBER.  NOT HAVING

                    ANY PROVISION RIGHT NOW FOR LONG-TERM CARE IN THIS PLAN IS, FRANKLY,

                    SCARY.  WHAT HAPPENS FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS?  I ALWAYS ADVOCATE FOR

                    ADDRESSING PEOPLE AND THEIR INDIVIDUAL NEEDS.  AND THE CLAIM THAT

                    YOU'RE COVERING OFFERING ALL.  ALL, IT'S LIKE FITTING EVERYBODY INTO A SILO.

                    ALL MEANS ALL; YOU CAN'T CLAIM YOU'RE COVERING ALL WHEN YOU'RE NOT

                    COVERING ALL.  THIS ISN'T SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST.  IT SEEMS THOSE THAT CAN'T

                    WAIT ARE GETTING LEFT OUT.

                                 I JUST FEEL -- YOU -- YOU SAID THAT THIS ISN'T A PERFECT

                    SOLUTION, BUT IT'S -- IT'S NOT A TESTED SOLUTION.  I JUST DON'T HAVE

                    CONFIDENCE THAT IT'S READY YET.  I AGREE THAT SOMETHING DESPERATELY

                    NEEDS TO BE DONE, I JUST DON'T FEEL THAT IT'S READY YET.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  MS. PELLEGRINO.

                                 MS. PELLEGRINO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  MAKE NO MISTAKE, THIS IS A (SIC) HISTORIC MOMENT.

                                         105



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    THE NEW YORK HEALTH IS A LANDMARK OF PROGRESS AND WILL BENEFIT ALL

                    NEW YORKERS.  IT IS THE RIGHT, COMPASSIONATE THING TO DO, AND IT IS THE

                    SMART THING TO DO.  AS REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PUBLIC, WE HAVE A

                    RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY CITIZEN, RICH OR POOR, HAS EQUAL

                    ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE.

                                 RIGHT NOW, OUR SYSTEM IS BROKEN, AND WASHINGTON IS

                    ONLY MAKING IT WORSE.  HERE IN ALBANY, WE ARE SENDING A MESSAGE TO

                    EVERY NEW YORKER THAT WE WILL NOT ABANDON THEM AS WASHINGTON DOES.

                    WE WILL WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR CONSTITUENTS AND

                    BUSINESSES AND COMMUNITIES THAT MAKE UP OUR DISTRICTS ARE HEALTHY AND

                    STRONG.  THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT GUARANTEES THAT EVERY NEW YORKER,

                    REGARDLESS OF WEALTH, INCOME, AGE OR PREEXISTING CONDITIONS CAN ACCESS

                    AND AFFORD THE CARE THAT THEY NEED, WHETHER IT'S PRIMARY OR

                    PREVENTATIVE, MATERNITY, VISION, DENTAL, HEARING CARE, PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

                    OR REHABILITATION.  IT ALSO REMOVES THE HEAVY BURDEN OF HEALTH CARE

                    COSTS CURRENTLY DROWNING SMALL BUSINESSES, AND HAMPERING ECONOMIC

                    GROWTH.

                                 BY PASSING THE NEW YORK HEALTH ACT, MY ASSEMBLY

                    COLLEAGUES AND I ARE SENDING NOT JUST THE EMPHATIC MESSAGE THAT WE

                    CARE FOR THE HEALTH OF OUR CONSTITUENTS, BUT THAT OUR -- OUR ECONOMY AND

                    THE GENERAL WELFARE OF OUR STATE IS OUR BEST IMPORTANCE.  WE SHOULD BE

                    PROUD OF NEW YORK'S PROGRESSIVE LEGISLATIVE HISTORY, AND I FOR ONE AM

                    PROUD OF BEING PART OF CARRYING ON THAT LEGISLATIVE TRADITION HERE IN THE

                    PEOPLE'S HOUSE.  I'D LIKE TO THANK AND COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS

                    BILL, AS WELL AS THE THOUSANDS OF THE ADVOCATES AND THE ACTIVISTS WHO

                                         106



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WORKED TIRELESSLY TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ON THE BENEFITS OF THIS BILL.  I

                    WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE PROUDLY IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PHILLIP STECK.

                                 MR. STECK:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                    THE COMPARISON HERE IS BETWEEN PREMIUMS.  IT'S NOT ABOUT TAX

                    INCREASES OR INCREASED GOVERNMENT SPENDING, IT'S ABOUT A PREMIUM

                    CHARGED BY A GOVERNMENT COMPARED TO A PREMIUM CHARGED BY PRIVATE

                    INSURERS, PLUS THE VERY, VERY HIGH COST OF PAYING FOR MEDICAID THROUGH

                    OUR TAXES.  INSURANCE IS ABOUT SPREADING COST.  DO I LIKE MY PRIVATE

                    INSURER?  I DO, FOR THE MOST PART, BUT, THERE'S NO WAY MY PRIVATE INSURER

                    CAN COMPETE WHEN IT SPREADS COST AMONG ITS OWN SUBSCRIBERS AS TO

                    COMPARE IT TO SPREADING COST ACROSS 20 MILLION NEW YORKERS.

                                 SOME OF THESE ARGUMENTS REALLY ARE DESPERATE.  THIS IS

                    NOT MEDICAID AT ALL.  MEDICAID IS A MEANS-TESTED PROGRAM THAT PROVIDES

                    HEALTH INSURANCE FOR THE POOR.  THERE ARE A LOT OF REGULATIONS, A LOT OF

                    SUPERVISION THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT TASK, BOTH OF PHYSICIANS AND OF

                    THE BENEFICIARIES OF THE PROGRAM.  THIS IS A PROGRAM LIKE SOCIAL

                    SECURITY AND MEDICARE, IT SIMPLY TAKES IN MONEY AND PAYS CLAIMS.

                    THIS IS A JOB-CREATING BILL BECAUSE BUSINESS NEEDS TO LOWER THE COST OF

                    HEALTH INSURANCE TO EXPAND.  IF HEALTH INSURANCE COSTS ARE LOWER IN THIS

                    STATE, IT WILL ATTRACT BUSINESS TO THIS STATE.

                                 FINALLY, THERE IS NO COMPARISON WITH THE VETERANS

                    ADMINISTRATION.  THE VETERANS ADMINISTRATION IS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE,

                    NOT A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM.  MANY STUDIES SAY, BY THE WAY THAT THE VA

                    IS AN OUTSTANDING HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE.  THAT'S NOT TO DENY

                                         107



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    THAT IN PRIVATE INSURANCE, THE VA AND ANY PROGRAM, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO

                    HAVE SOME HORROR STORIES THAT CAN BE CROWDED OUT TO TRY AND DISCREDIT

                    THE VA, AS THE PRESIDENT HAS DONE IN AN EFFORT TO PRIVATIZE THAT GREAT

                    AND TIME-HONORED INSTITUTION.

                                 I FEEL THAT THE SINGLE-PAYER DESIGNED BY THE CHAIR OF

                    OUR HEALTH COMMITTEE IS, AS ASSEMBLYWOMAN PELLEGRINO SAID,

                    HISTORIC.  IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.  I PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK

                    YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, CHAIR.  I RISE TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN NOW.  IT'S

                    BROKEN FOR THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF NEW YORKERS WHO FACE

                    BANKRUPTCIES.  PEOPLE HAVE LOST WAGES BECAUSE OF HEALTH CARE.  PEOPLE

                    WHO CAN'T DEAL WITH THEIR OWN HEALTH ISSUES BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET

                    PREVENTATIVE SERVICES.  THIS BILL IS A CRITICAL SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM,

                    HEALTH CARE FOR ALL NEW YORKERS.  SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD STAND FOR

                    AND BELIEVE IN.

                                 AS WE -- AS THE SPONSOR HAS POINTED OUT, THIS IS GOING

                    TO IMPROVE THE ECONOMY, PROVIDE JOBS.  AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ABOUT.

                    THAT'S WHY WE'RE STANDING HERE.  I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF

                    THIS BILL.  I'LL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF IT.  I WITHDRAW MY OBJECTION -- MY

                    OPPORTUNITY.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I THINK

                    THERE ARE OTHER ALTERNATIVES THAT WE, AS A LEGISLATURE, SHOULD BE

                                         108



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING.  AND I WOULD START BY THE PROPOSITION THAT MORE

                    PEOPLE WOULD BE COVERED BY HEALTH INSURANCE IF HEALTH INSURANCE

                    WASN'T EXPENSIVE AS IT IS TODAY.  IN FACT, THE COST ELASTICITY OF HEALTH

                    INSURANCE IS VERY HIGH.  RUNNING UP TO 1 PERCENT INCREASE IN HEALTH

                    INSURANCE COSTS RESULTS IN UP TO 1 PERCENT DROP IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE

                    THAT ARE COVERED.

                                 SO, WHAT CAN WE DO, SHORT OF OUTLAWING ALL PRIVATE

                    INSURANCE AND HAVING A COMPLETE GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER IN NEW YORK

                    STATE?  WELL, WE COULD START BY LOOKING AT OUR OWN LAWS AND RULES AND

                    REGULATIONS THAT DRIVE UP HEALTH INSURANCE.  FOR EXAMPLE, THIS

                    LEGISLATURE HAS APPROVED OVER $4.7 BILLION, BILLION ON TAXES ON HEALTH

                    INSURANCE.  LET'S START BY TAKING THE TAXES OFF HEALTH INSURANCE SO THE

                    COST GOES DOWN.  LET'S STOP HIDING TAXES UNDER HEALTH INSURANCE

                    PREMIUMS THAT ARE TOO HIGH.

                                 THE OTHER THING WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE ADDED ONE

                    MANDATED COVERAGE AFTER ANOTHER.  WE HAVE NOW HAVE OVER -- NEARLY

                    60 MANDATED COVERAGES.  YOU CANNOT BUY A BASIC HEALTH INSURANCE

                    POLICY IN NEW YORK.  IT'S ILLEGAL.  BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF OUR RESIDENTS

                    WHO WOULD LIKE TO BUY A BASIC HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY THAT DOESN'T COST

                    AS MUCH.  AND THE SAD THING IS, AS WE'VE RAISED THE COST OF HEALTH

                    INSURANCE, AS WE'VE TAXED THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF IT, AS WE'VE ADDED

                    MORE AND MORE MANDATES, WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THAT OUR EMPLOYERS HAVE

                    ADDED HIGHER AND HIGHER DEDUCTIBLES AND, AS A MATTER OF FACT, YOU DON'T

                    HAVE ANY HEALTH INSURANCE UNTIL YOU MET THE DEDUCTIBLE.

                                 SO, MAYBE IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF WE, AS LEGISLATORS,

                                         109



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    FOCUSED ON HOW WE CAN REDUCE THE COST OF HEALTH INSURANCE SO THAT

                    MORE PEOPLE CAN BE COVERED, RATHER THAN LOOKING AT A PROPOSAL THAT WILL

                    TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE OUR COSTS.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE

                    TO ASK MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE ON CODES TO JOIN MR. LENTOL IN THE

                    SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.  CODES COMMITTEE IN THE SPEAKER'S

                    CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CODES COMMITTEE,

                    SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, SIR.  I'D LIKE TO TAKE A

                    NUMBER OF BILLS UP OFF THE DEBATE LIST.  I'LL GIVE YOU THE FIRST THREE THAT I

                    WOULD LIKE TO TAKE UP FIRST:  RULES REPORT NO. 47 BY MR. BRINDISI,

                    WHICH IS ON PAGE 5 OF THE MAIN CALENDAR, THEN GO TO RULES REPORT NO.

                    60, 6-0, BY MS. WEINSTEIN ON PAGE 7 OF THE MAIN CALENDAR, AND IN THIS

                    GROUPING, FINISH WITH CALENDAR -- OR -- YES, CALENDAR NO. 7-5 BY MR.

                    DINOWITZ ON PAGE 32.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08164-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 47, BRINDISI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

                                         110



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO IMPAIRMENTS OF HEALTH, PRESUMPTION AND

                    STAPH/MRSA.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  ARE THERE ANY

                    OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10479, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 60, WEINSTEIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE LOCAL FINANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE SALE OF BONDS AND NOTES OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, THE

                    ISSUANCE OF BONDS OR NOTES WITH VARIABLE RATES OF INTEREST, INTEREST RATE

                    EXCHANGE AGREEMENTS OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, THE REFUNDING OF

                    BONDS, AND THE DOWN PAYMENT FOR PROJECTS FINANCED BY BONDS; TO

                    AMEND CHAPTER 868 OF THE LAWS OF 1975 CONSTITUTING THE NEW YORK

                    STATE FINANCIAL EMERGENCY ACT FOR THE CITY OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION

                    TO A PLEDGE AND AGREEMENT OF THE STATE; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 142 OF

                    THE LAWS OF 2004, AMENDING THE LOCAL FINANCE LAW RELATING TO

                    INTEREST RATE EXCHANGE AGREEMENTS OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK AND

                    REFUNDING BONDS OF SUCH CITY, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

                                 ACING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                         111



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  WHEN NEW YORK CITY WAS ON THE EDGE OF FINANCIAL

                    BANKRUPTCY IN THE 1970S, WE AUTHORIZED THEM TO SELL BONDS AT A PRIVATE

                    SALE WITHOUT COMPETITIVE BIDDING BECAUSE THEY WERE HAVING TROUBLE

                    SELLING THE BONDS TO ANYBODY.  THEY'RE NO LONGER IN THAT SITUATION.

                    EVERY OTHER MUNICIPALITY, WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS ACROSS NEW YORK

                    STATE, THEY SELL THEIR BONDS AT A COMPETITIVE BID; OPEN, TRANSPARENT,

                    PUBLISHED AND THEY SELL THE BONDS TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER.  AND

                    WHENEVER YOU SET UP A SITUATION WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE OPEN,

                    COMPETITIVE, TRANSPARENT FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS, AND YOU HAVE THE

                    POSSIBILITY OF MAKING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF PROFIT, YOU

                    OPEN THE DOOR FOR POTENTIAL FRAUD, COLLUSION, ABUSE, GOVERNMENT

                    CORRUPTION AT ANY LEVEL.

                                 SO, THE RATIONALE TO ALLOW THE CITY OF NEW YORK TO

                    SELL THESE BONDS AT A PRIVATE SALE, THAT RATIONALE IS NO LONGER APPLY --

                    AND IT DOESN'T APPLY, HASN'T APPLIED IN DECADES.  WE SHOULD REQUIRE THE

                    CITY OF NEW YORK TO SELL THEIR BONDS AT AN OPEN COMPETITIVE SALE, JUST

                    LIKE MUNICIPALITIES ALL ACROSS NEW YORK STATE DO AND, THEREBY, REDUCE

                    THE LIKELIHOOD OF FRAUD AND CORRUPTION.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  AS A

                    RESULT, I'LL BE VOTING NO.

                                         112



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MR. GOODELL IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01085-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 75, DINOWITZ, WEPRIN, SKOUFIS, GOTTFRIED, ARROYO, JOYNER.  AN ACT

                    TO AMEND THE GENERAL OBLIGATIONS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIREMENTS FOR

                    THE USE OF PLAIN LANGUAGE IN CONSUMER TRANSACTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  ON A MOTION BY

                    MR. DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  YES, THANK YOU, SIR.  I'D LIKE TO TAKE

                    THE FOLLOWING THREE BILLS UP OFF THE DEBATE LIST IN THE FOLLOWING -- IN --

                    IN THIS ORDER:  CALENDAR NO. 478 BY MR. WEPRIN ON PAGE 67; FOLLOW

                    THAT WITH CALENDAR NO. 7 - I'M SORRY, EXCUSE ME - CALENDAR NO. 576 BY

                                         113



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    MR. ABBATE, THAT'S ON PAGE 76; AND CONCLUDE THIS GROUP WITH CALENDAR

                    NO. 748 BY MRS. GALEF ON PAGE 85.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                    READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S05337, CALENDAR NO.

                    478, HANNON (WEPRIN, GOTTFRIED, CYMBROWITZ, MOSLEY, PAULIN,

                    DICKENS, DENDEKKER, COLTON, DILAN, ZEBROWSKI, JONES, BRINDISI, FAHY,

                    HIKIND, RODRIGUEZ, PHEFFER AMATO, DINOWITZ, M. G. MILLER, TITONE,

                    VANEL, D'URSO, PELLEGRINO, CRESPO, GALEF, THIELE, MAGEE, ORTIZ,

                    MCDONALD, RIVERA, RAMOS, QUART, STECK, SKOUFIS, SANTABARBARA,

                    BENEDETTO, CUSICK, KIM, ABINANTI, LENTOL, CARROLL, JOYNER, HOOPER,

                    BUCHWALD, ABBATE, TAYLOR--A06838).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC

                    HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO BODY IMAGING SCANNING EQUIPMENT; AND

                    PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. MALLIOTAKIS TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MEMBERS, PLEASE.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 MS. MALLIOTAKIS:  I JUST WANTED TO --

                                         114



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 ACING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  PROCEED.

                                 MS. MALLIOTAKIS:  I WANT TO COMMEND THE

                    SPONSOR FOR THIS LEGISLATION.  IT IS LONG OVERDUE.  THIS LEGISLATION IS

                    GOING TO PROTECT BOTH INMATES AND OFFICERS AT OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES.

                    IT'S GOING TO ENSURE THAT CONTRABAND, BLADES, DRUGS ARE BEING DETECTED

                    AND IT WILL PREVENT A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM BEING INJURED AND HURT IN THE

                    FUTURE.  SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO THE SPEAKER FOR ALLOWING IT TO

                    COME FOR A VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  ARE THERE ANY

                    OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08057-B, CALENDAR

                    NO. 576, ABBATE, BRABENEC, BRINDISI, LUPARDO, HUNTER, WALTER, B.

                    MILLER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS TO SERVE AS A FIRE CHIEF IN ANY FIRE DEPARTMENT,

                    FIRE DISTRICT OR FIRE PROTECTION DISTRICT THAT EMPLOYS FIVE OR MORE PAID

                    FIREFIGHTERS.

                                 ACING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                         115



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  LAST TIME THIS BILL CAME UP, THERE WERE 53 NO VOTES BECAUSE

                    IT APPLIED TO EVERY SINGLE FIRE DEPARTMENT ACROSS NEW YORK STATE,

                    INCLUDING THE SMALLEST VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENTS.  MANY OF OUR

                    VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENTS ARE WRESTLING WITH JUST HAVING ENOUGH

                    PEOPLE ON THE ROSTER TO SHOW UP, AND THIS WOULD HAVE MADE IT ALMOST

                    IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO GET A CHIEF, BY IMPOSING UNREASONABLE TRAINING

                    STANDARDS FOR VOLUNTEERS.  THE BILL HAS SUBSEQUENTLY BEEN AMENDED TO

                    EXEMPT VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND THOSE FIRE DEPARTMENTS THAT

                    HAVE FOUR OR FEWER MEMBERS THAT ARE PAID.  AND, AS A RESULT, THE FIRE

                    CHIEFS ASSOCIATION HAS CHANGED ITS POSITION AND I WILL, AS WELL.  AND

                    SO, WHILE I VOTED AGAINST IT LAST YEAR, I WILL BE VOTING FOR IT THIS YEAR.

                    THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MR. GOODELL IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08766-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 748, GALEF, SCHIMMINGER, MOSLEY, COOK, GUNTHER, MORINELLO,

                    LAWRENCE, ERRIGO, B. MILLER, RAIA, MONTESANO, GIGLIO, HAWLEY,

                    CROUCH, ORTIZ, DENDEKKER, BYRNE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC

                    AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO THE CEREMONIAL DESIGNATION OF THE "BEAR

                                         116



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    MOUNTAIN BRIDGE" AS THE "PURPLE HEART VETERANS MEMORIAL BRIDGE".

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MRS.

                    GALEF, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE

                    TO TAKE ONE MORE BILL OFF THE DEBATE LIST, IF I CAN:  CALENDAR NO. 829 BY

                    MR. ABINANTI ON PAGE 89 OF THAT CALENDAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. -- ASSEMBLY NO.

                    A01992, CALENDAR NO. 829, ABINANTI, ROZIC, SKOUFIS, CRESPO, COOK,

                    HIKIND, MCDONOUGH, PALUMBO, SANTABARBARA, HOOPER, ZEBROWSKI,

                    GOTTFRIED, STECK, SIMON, MOSLEY, JAFFEE, BARRON, BLAKE, SOLAGES,

                    CAHILL, COLTON, BRABENEC, ENGLEBRIGHT, WEPRIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    TRANSPORTATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE CREATION OF A TOLL-FREE HOTLINE

                    AND A WEBSITE WHERE MOTORISTS CAN REPORT POTHOLES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    ABINANTI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                                         117



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ON

                    BEHALF OF MR. ABINANTI, LET ME JUST SAY THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR THEIR

                    SUPPORT OF THIS LEGISLATION, WHICH HE HAS WORKED VERY, VERY HARD ON

                    AND LOOKS FORWARD TO A GREAT SUCCESS FOR OUR MOTORISTS WHO TRAVERSE THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.  THANK YOU.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WELL, THAT CHANGED

                    MY VOTE.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  I DO WANT TO, MR. SPEAKER, THANK

                    MR. ABINANTI FOR EXERCISING RESTRAINT DURING THAT ROLL CALL.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 WE SHOULD ALL MODEL OURSELVES AFTER HIM.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                         118



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 I'D LIKE TO CONTINUE CONSENTING, SIR, BEGINNING ON PAGE

                    16 OF THE MAIN CALENDAR, RULES REPORT NO. 164 BY MS. SIMOTAS.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08401-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 164, SIMOTAS, OTIS, DINOWITZ, DICKENS, QUART, DE LA ROSA,

                    NIOU, RIVERA, MOSLEY, BARRON, MCDONALD, ZEBROWSKI, CROUCH, SIMON,

                    GOTTFRIED, CAHILL, GIGLIO, HEVESI, PELLEGRINO, GALEF, GLICK, WEPRIN, L.

                    ROSENTHAL.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND THE EXECUTIVE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIM BILL OF RIGHTS;

                    AND TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO MAINTENANCE OF SEXUAL

                    ASSAULT EVIDENCE, ESTABLISHING A VICTIM'S RIGHT TO NOTICE PRIOR TO

                    DESTRUCTION.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08402-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 165, ABBATE, COLTON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND

                    SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO TRANSFER OF RETIREMENT MEMBERSHIP

                    FOR CERTAIN EMPLOYEES OF SUNY WITHIN THE PROFESSIONAL, SCIENTIFIC AND

                                         119



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    TECHNICAL BARGAINING UNIT.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08686-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 166, BARNWELL, DICKENS, VANEL, WEPRIN, WILLIAMS, CRESPO,

                    HEVESI, SIMOTAS, LAVINE, SEAWRIGHT, QUART, TAYLOR.  AN ACT TO

                    ESTABLISH A COMMISSION TO BE KNOWN AS THE "NEW YORK SEAWALL STUDY

                    COMMISSION"; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON

                    EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BARNWELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 IT SHOULDN'T BE AS LONG AS THE WALL IS GOING TO BE.

                                 MR. BARNWELL:  NO.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 I APPRECIATE YOU ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                                         120



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    THANK YOU TO CHAIRMAN ENGLEBRIGHT FOR HELPING ME PASS THIS BILL, AND

                    HIS STAFF, WHICH WAS -- WHICH WERE GREAT.  SO, JUST SO -- I KNOW I HAVE

                    TWO MINUTES.  SO, TO SHOW HOW IMPORTANT A SEAWALL IS, IN GALVESTON,

                    TEXAS IN 1900, IT WAS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE THAT STRUCK -- THAT STRUCK

                    THE -- THE ISLAND.  AND THERE WAS NOT A SEAWALL THERE AT THAT POINT.

                    EIGHT THOUSAND TO 12,000 PEOPLE PERISHED.  OKAY?  THAT WAS THE -- THE

                    WORST NATIONAL DISASTER IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES IN REGARD TO

                    PEOPLE DYING.  A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE STRUCK THERE IN 1915 AFTER THEY

                    BUILT THE SEAWALL, 53 PEOPLE DIED.  NOW, WHILE THAT'S TRAGIC, COMPARED

                    TO THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, OBVIOUSLY, IT'S -- IT SHOWED THE

                    SEAWALL DID -- DID ITS -- DID WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO.  SO, THIS BILL

                    WILL STUDY WHERE WE SHOULD PUT A SEAWALL IN NEW YORK CITY, AND THAT'S

                    REALLY IT.  SO, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I -- I

                    DON'T WANT HEVESI'S VOTE, SO THAT'S OKAY.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 BUT EVERYONE ELSE, PLEASE VOTE FOR THE BILL.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  MR. HEVESI TO EXPLAIN

                    HIS VOTE.

                                 (LAUGHTER/APPLAUSE)

                                 MR. HEVESI:  WILL MR. BARNWELL YIELD FOR 12

                    QUESTIONS?

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  INAPPROPRIATE.  SIT

                                         121



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    DOWN.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 MR. HEVESI:  THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. MALLIOTAKIS TO

                    EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. MALLIOTAKIS:  I'M JUST SO HAPPY TO SEE THAT

                    SO MANY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE ARE IN SUPPORT OF BUILDING

                    A WALL.  THANK YOU.

                                 (LAUGHTER/BOOS)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RAIA TO EXPLAIN

                    HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. RAIA:  I'M ACTUALLY NOT GOING TO MAKE A JOKE

                    HERE.  IF YOU BUILD -- IF YOU BUILD A WALL ACROSS MANHATTAN, THAT WATER'S

                    GOT TO GO SOMEWHERE, AND I KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO, ALL OVER LONG

                    ISLAND.  SO, I WOULD HOPE THAT ANY STUDY THAT TAKES PLACE WILL TAKE A

                    LOOK AT THE ANCILLARY EFFECTS ON WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO LONG ISLAND.

                    THANK YOU.  BUT I WILL VOTE YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RAIA IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08704-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 167, MAGNARELLI, BRAUNSTEIN, TAYLOR, GUNTHER,

                    SANTABARBARA, D'URSO, HUNTER, COOK, LAVINE, DENDEKKER.  AN ACT TO

                                         122



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    AMEND TO AMOUNT THE STATE LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING "HERE RESTS

                    IN HONORED GLORY" THE OFFICIAL STATE HYMN OF REMEMBRANCE IN HONOR

                    OF ALL AMERICAN VETERANS.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. CASTORINA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. CASTORINA:  ACTUALLY, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD,

                    MR. SPEAKER?

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  TOO LATE FOR THAT, MR.

                    CASTORINA, ONLY CAN YOU EXPLAIN.

                                 MR. CASTORINA:  I WAS -- WELL, I WAS JUST HOPING

                    THAT MR. MAGNARELLI COULD HUM A FEW BARS, BECAUSE I'M NOT FAMILIAR

                    WITH THE SONG.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  MR. CASTORINA IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08705-A, RULES

                                         123



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    REPORT NO. 168, CUSICK, SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE BANKING

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING A NOTICE TO BE POSTED ON ALL AUTOMATED

                    TELLER MACHINES REGARDING SKIMMING.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08743-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 169, PHEFFER AMATO, M. G. MILLER, D'URSO, JONES, WEPRIN,

                    M. L. MILLER, HYNDMAN, D. ROSENTHAL, DENDEKKER, B. MILLER, ROZIC,

                    CARROLL, QUART, HEVESI, BARNWELL, BRAUNSTEIN, CUSICK, SIMOTAS, TITONE,

                    VANEL, AUBRY, TITUS, COOK.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING THE

                    IMPOSITION AND COLLECTION OF A FARE, TOLL, RENTAL, RATE, CHARGE OR OTHER

                    FEE ON THE CROSS BAY VETERANS MEMORIAL BRIDGE.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO:  THANK YOU -- IS IT ON?

                                 OKAY.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY

                    TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  THE PURPOSE OF THIS BILL IS TO END THE INEQUITABLE,

                    UNJUSTIFIED AND UNDENIABLY BURDENSOME TOLL ON THE CROSS BAY VETERANS

                    MEMORIAL BRIDGE, A BRIDGE THAT RUNS DIRECTLY THROUGH MY ASSEMBLY

                    DISTRICT, AND THE ONLY TOLLED INTERBOROUGH, INTERCOUNTY BRIDGE IN OUR

                    STATE.  THE CROSS BAY VETERANS MEMORIAL BRIDGE CARRIES THE CROSS

                    BAY BOULEVARD THROUGH BROAD CHANNEL AND JAMAICA BAY TO THE

                                         124



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    ROCKAWAY PENINSULA.  BOTH SITES -- BOTH SIT IN THE BOROUGH OF QUEENS.

                    THE TOLL ON THE CROSS BAY BRIDGE WAS IMPLEMENTED ONLY TO COVER THE

                    COST OF CONSTRUCTION, AND AT THAT TIME STARTED AT 10 CENTS PER TRIP.  THE

                    TOLL -- TOLL HAS SINCE GROWN TO $4.25 PER TRIP.  QUEENS RESIDENTS ARE

                    REQUIRED TO PAY THE TOLL SEVERAL TIMES A DAY IN ORDER -- IN ORDER TO GO TO

                    AND FROM WORK, TO THEIR LOCAL PRECINCTS, TRANSPORT CHILDREN BACK AND

                    FORTH TO SCHOOL, AND DO YOUR EVERYDAY ERRANDS, AND ESPECIALLY TO GO TO

                    THE BEACH.

                                 THIS TOLL DIVIDES OUR COMMUNITY.  IT ARTIFICIALLY

                    CREATES AN ECONOMIC BARRIER.  IT HAMPERS TOURISM, AND KEEPS THE AREAS

                    MOST IMPACTED BY SUPERSTORM SANDY FROM HAVING A FULL AND THOROUGH

                    ECONOMIC RECOVERY.  THIS TOLL HAS OUTLIVED ITS ORIGINAL STATED PURPOSE

                    OF PAYING FOR THE BRIDGE, AND HAS ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE, BESIDES

                    SUPPLEMENTING THE MTA BUDGET ON THE BACKS OF HARD-WORKING QUEENS

                    FAMILIES.  I AM CERTAIN THE COST OF ENDING THIS TOLL WOULD BE MADE UP

                    SEVERAL TIMES OVER WITH THE FREEDOM AND EASE AND THE ACCESS THAT

                    WOULD BRING TO THE SOUTH QUEENS COMMUNITIES AND THE ROCKAWAY

                    PENINSULA.  ELIMINATING THIS TOLL ON THIS BRIDGE IS NOW -- THE TIME IS

                    NOW TO DO THIS.  I AM NOT THE FIRST TO TAKE THIS STEP, BUT I HOPE TO BE THE

                    LAST.  IT IS INEQUITABLE FOR MY COMMUNITY, AND I APPRECIATE THIS

                    CHAMBER'S SUPPORT.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PHEFFER AMATO

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                         125



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08798-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 170, QUART.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO ORDERS OF ADJOURNMENT IN CONTEMPLATION OF DISMISSAL AND

                    SEALING OF DEFENDANT RECORDS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08869, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 171, THIELE, TITONE, ZEBROWSKI, PELLEGRINO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO ENERGY CONSERVATION AND LOST

                    REVENUES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08881, CALENDAR 1 --

                    RULES REPORT NO. 172, MAGNARELLI, MCDONALD, SANTABARBARA.  AND ACT

                    TO AMEND THE NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    EFFECTIVE DATE FOR THE TAX EXEMPT STATUS OF THE REAL PROPERTY OF A LAND

                    BANK.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    MAGNARELLI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                         126



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08888-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 173, GUNTHER, JAFFEE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE MENTAL

                    HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO TELEPSYCHIATRY.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08983, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 174, D'URSO, WILLIAMS, COOK, ERRIGO, GALEF.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO TIRE SAFETY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09010, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 175, ABBATE, WEPRIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

                    SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO DISABILITY RETIREMENT BENEFITS FOR SHERIFFS,

                    DEPUTY SHERIFFS, UNDERSHERIFFS, AND CORRECTION OFFICERS IN NASSAU

                    COUNTY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    ABBATE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         127



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09540-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 176, RYAN.  AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY OF ERIE TO OFFER

                    AN OPTIONAL 20-YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN TO CERTAIN DEPUTY SHERIFFS

                    EMPLOYED BY SUCH COUNTY.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    RYAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED

                    AND THE HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09596-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 177, WEINSTEIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO THE ENFORCEMENT OF DELINQUENT TAX LIABILITIES BY MEANS OF THE

                    SUSPENSION OF LICENSES TO OPERATE A MOTOR VEHICLE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

                                         128



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09627, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 178, DINOWITZ, DE LA ROSA.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC

                    AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO ALLOWING TWO AUTOMATIC FREE TRANSFERS

                    FOR RIDERS USING PAY-PER-RIDE METROCARDS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS

                    BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09651-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 179, CUSICK, SIMOTAS, PELLEGRINO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING AN EXEMPTION FROM

                    TAXATION FOR CERTAIN ENERGY SYSTEMS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT MARCH 1ST,

                    2019.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10082-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 180, TITONE, JEAN-PIERRE, D'URSO, MOSLEY, L. ROSENTHAL,

                    ENGLEBRIGHT, ORTIZ, M. G. MILLER, DINOWITZ, RA, MONTESANO, MURRAY,

                    MCDONOUGH, NIOU, GUNTHER, WILLIAMS, WEPRIN, COLTON, NORRIS,

                    BYRNE, GLICK, BLAKE, COOK, SKOUFIS, BRABENEC, O'DONNELL, WOERNER,

                                         129



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    DAVILA, GALEF, SANTABARBARA.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO CERTAIN LEASE AGREEMENTS CONCERNING DOGS AND CATS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    TITONE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10193-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 181, HUNTER, BARRON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE MULTIPLE

                    RESIDENCE LAW, IN RELATION TO UNLAWFUL OCCUPATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. 10198-A, RULES REPORT

                                         130



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    NO. 182, PELLEGRINO, SEAWRIGHT, BARRON, LAVINE, RAIA.  AN ACT

                    DIRECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO STUDY THE WEIGHT

                    LIMITATIONS FOR FIRE VEHICLES WITH PNEUMATIC TIRES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10251, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 183, MCDONALD.  AN ACT TO AMEND TO AUTHORIZE THE CITY OF

                    COHOES, IN THE COUNTY OF ALBANY, TO OFFER CERTAIN RETIREMENT OPTIONS TO

                    POLICE OFFICER JEFFREY BRESSETTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10311-B, RULES

                                         131



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    REPORT NO. 184, WALLACE.  AN ACT DIRECTING THE COMMISSIONER OF THE

                    DIVISION OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND EMERGENCY SERVICES TO DEVELOP A

                    PLAN TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF SKILLS REQUIRED AS PART OF THE FIREFIGHTER

                    CERTIFICATION, OR THE FIREFIGHTER RECRUIT I AND II CERTIFICATIONS, WHICH

                    CAN BE COMPLETED AT A TRAINEE'S HOME DEPARTMENT OR ONLINE.

                                 ACTING CLERK AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR DESKS AN A-CALENDAR.  I NOW MOVE TO ADVANCE

                    THE A-CALENDAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON MR. MORELLE'S

                    MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D

                    LIKE TO DIRECTLY TAKE UP RULES REPORT NO. 228 BY MR. SKOUFIS ON PAGE

                    5 OF THE A-CALENDAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                         132



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09969-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 228, SKOUFIS, BRABENEC.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO THE

                    FORMATION AND -- OF AND ELECTIONS IN NEW TOWNS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    SKOUFIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  LADIES

                    AND GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION TODAY.  I DO NOTE A

                    COUPLE OF THINGS, JUST FOR PEOPLE'S EDIFICATION.  NEXT WEEK WILL BE LONG

                    DAYS, LONG NIGHTS, SO BE PREPARED.  THE FEWER QUESTIONS I GET ABOUT

                    WHAT TIME WE'RE LEAVING WILL BE BETTER FOR MY PSYCHE NEXT WEEK.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 AND FOR ALL OF YOU, I'M SURE, AS WELL.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 I -- I DO NOTE THAT NEITHER MR. CROUCH NOR MR. OTIS

                    HAVE ANNOUNCEMENTS TO MAKE THIS AFTERNOON.  BUT -- BUT, LADIES AND

                    GENTLEMEN, JUST A MOMENT, PLEASE.  IN JUST A MOMENT, MR. SPEAKER, I

                                         133



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WOULD ASK FOR ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING AND RESOLUTIONS.  BUT BEFORE I

                    DO THAT, THERE IS A PRIVILEGED RESOLUTION BY MS. SOLAGES, AND I

                    UNDERSTAND A NUMBER OF MEMBERS WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO IT.  SO, IF YOU

                    WOULD PUT THAT UP ON THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW, I'D APPRECIATE THAT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1376, MS.

                    SOLAGES.  LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION COMMEMORATING JUNE 14TH, 2018 AS

                    FLAG DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SOLAGES ON THE

                    RESOLUTION.

                                 MR. BARRON ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MR. BARRON:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                    I RISE ON THIS PARTICULAR RESOLUTION -- MR. SPEAKER, COULD WE GET SOME...

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  LADIES

                    AND GENTLEMEN, SHH.

                                 MR. BARRON:  I RISE TO SPEAK ON THIS RESOLUTION

                    BECAUSE MANY AMERICANS WERE QUICK TO POINT OUT THE RACISM IN THE

                    CONFEDERATE FLAG, BUT THEY FAIL TO POINT OUT THE RACISM IN THE AMERICAN

                    FLAG.

                                 (BOOS)

                                 IT HAS AFFECTED MANY OF US --

                                 MR. SPEAKER, COULD YOU TELL THEM TO STOP THE RUDE

                    BOOING AND NOT MESS WITH MY TIME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WE WILL -- WE WILL BE

                    RESPECTFUL OF ALL VIEWS, PLEASE.

                                         134



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. BARRON:  IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GET UP AND SAY

                    SOMETHING.

                                 THE AMERICAN FLAG, AMERICANS DON'T WANT TO POINT

                    OUT THE RACISM IN THE AMERICAN FLAG.  THE DECLARATION OF

                    INDEPENDENCE SAID THAT WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT, THAT ALL

                    MEN, NOT WOMEN, NOT BLACK PEOPLE, NOT AFRICANS, WHITE MEN ARE

                    CREATED EQUAL WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, THOSE -- AND THE PURSUIT OF

                    LIFE, HAPPINESS AND ALL OF THAT STUFF.  IT WASN'T APPLIED TO US.  IN THAT

                    VERY DECLARATION, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ITS COMPLAINTS, IT WAS A LIST OF

                    COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE KING OF ENGLAND.  THE COMPLAINTS WAS

                    TAXATION, WITH -- NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.  THERE WERE

                    COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW THE ARMY WAS TREATING THEM TERRIBLY.  THERE

                    WERE ALSO COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW THEY COULDN'T EVEN TRADE WITH OTHER

                    COUNTRIES.  BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER COMPLAINT IN THERE THAT SAID THEY WAS

                    UPSET WITH THE KING BECAUSE THE KING INCITED INSURRECTIONS AMONGST

                    THEM, AND CAUSED THE INDIAN SAVAGES TO FIGHT IN WARFARE AGAINST THEM.

                    THIS IS HOW THIS COUNTRY STARTED.  THEN AFTER THEY FINISHED THEIR

                    REVOLUTIONARY WAR, BETSY ROSS AND FRANCIS HOPKINSONS (SIC) --

                    WHOEVER YOU DETERMINE, STITCHED THE FIRST FLAG, THE AMERICAN FLAG.

                    WHILE THEY WERE STITCHING THE FLAG, WE WERE CATCHING STITCHES IN

                    SLAVERY, SUFFERING FROM SOME OF THE MOST BRUTAL TREATMENT THE HUMAN

                    MIND COULD CONJURE UP.

                                 AND THEN YOU HAD FRANCIS SCOTT KEY, WHO CAME ALONG

                    WITH THE STAR SPANGLED BANNER.  AND FRANCIS SCOTT KEY WAS AN

                    ATTORNEY, HE WAS A -- A PROSECUTOR, AND HE WAS A SLAVEHOLDER.  AND HE

                                         135



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    SAW IN 1812, DURING THE 1812 WAR, IN 1814, FORT HENRY (SIC) WAS

                    BEING BOMBED, THE BOMBS BURSTING IN THE AIR, AND FRANCIS SCOTT KEY,

                    A SLAVEHOLDER, A RACIST, STARTED TO PEN THE STAR SPANGLED BANNER,

                    WHICH YOU LOVE SO MUCH.  THERE'S A STANZA IN THAT THAT THEY DON'T SAY

                    ANYMORE.  WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT THE HURLING AND THE SLAVES THAT HE SAID

                    SHOULD BE IN THEIR GRAVES, BECAUSE THERE WERE MERCENARIES, AMERICAN

                    MERCENARIES, HIRED BY THE BRITISH ROYAL NAVY TO FIGHT AGAINST AMERICA,

                    AND ENSLAVED AFRICANS WERE ALSO ENCOURAGED TO FIGHT AGAINST AMERICA,

                    BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE GRANTED THEIR FREEDOM.  SO, THEY LEFT THAT PART

                    OUT.  BUT, IN FACT, IT WAS THE BRITISH WHO WAS LOOKING TO ABOLISH

                    SLAVERY.  SO, THE COLONIES DIDN'T WANT TO ABOLISH SLAVERY, THEY ALREADY

                    STOLE THE LAND FROM THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, THEN STOLE US, SO THEY

                    DECIDED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTIONARY WAR BECAUSE OF THEY --

                    THE WAY THEY WERE TREATED.

                                 THAT'S THE REAL AMERICAN HISTORY.  THAT'S WHAT THIS

                    FLAG MEANS TO ME.  SO, WHEN I SEE YOU PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THIS

                    (INDICATING), YOU HAVE YOUR POLITICS, I HAVE MINE.  SO, ON BEHALF OF ALL

                    THE NFL PLAYERS WHO THEIR WHITE OWNERS ARE TELLING THEM IF THEY WANT

                    TO PROTEST THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, THEY HAVE TO GO IN THE LOCKER ROOM

                    AND DO IT, I TELL THEM TO BE MEN, TO STAND UP LIKE MEN AND PROTEST THIS

                    FLAG, BECAUSE IT HAS THE SAME SYMBOLISM AS THE CONFEDERATE FLAG TO

                    SOME OF US, BECAUSE IT WAS BORN IN RACISM.

                                 WITH THAT, I WANT TO DO THIS FOR THE SOLDIERS WITH MY

                    LAST TIME LEFT.  FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN THE NFL, WHEN THEY PLAY THE

                    NATIONAL ANTHEM, THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO TO THE NATIONAL ANTHEM

                                         136



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    -- (INAUDIBLE/STEPS AWAY FROM MIC)

                                 (KNEELING/INDICATING)

                                 MEMBER:  NO PROPS.  POINT OF ORDER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR.  --

                                 MR. RA HAS A POINT OF ORDER.

                                 MR. RA:  THE RULES OF THE CHAMBER PREVENT THE USE

                    OF PROPS, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YOUR POINT OF ORDER

                    IS WELL TAKEN.

                                 PLEASE, MEMBERS, WE DO NOT USE PROPS IN THE HOUSE AS

                    WE SPEAK.

                                 MR. RAIA ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MR. RAIA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M -- I'M NOT

                    USING A PROP, I'M JUST GOING TO POINT WHAT'S ALREADY ON MY DESK.  BUT

                    ON BEHALF OF THE COUNTLESS AMERICANS THAT HAVE DIED IN WAR, IN BATTLES,

                    PROTECTING OUR IDEALS, IT'S -- IT'S VERY FULFILLING TO KNOW THAT THE REASON

                    THE PRIOR SPEAKER CAN GET UP AND DO WHAT HE DID IS BECAUSE OF WHAT

                    THAT FLAG STANDS FOR.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  YOU KNOW, THIS

                    RESOLUTION RECOGNIZES -- AND THERE'S A REASON WE RECOGNIZE JUNE 14TH AS

                    FLAG DAY.  WAY BACK IN 1777 IN THE SECOND CONTINENTAL CONGRESS,

                    THEY ADOPTED THE STARS AND STRIPES AS THE FLAG OF THIS COUNTRY.  AND

                    THERE'S A LOT OF SYMBOLISM IN OUR FLAG.  THE COLORS OF THE FLAG

                                         137



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    SYMBOLIZE THINGS.  THE RED SYMBOLIZES HARDINESS AND VALOR, THE WHITE

                    SYMBOLIZES PURITY AND INNOCENCE, AND BLUE REPRESENTS VIGILANCE,

                    PERSEVERANCE AND JUSTICE.  AND I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU, THE HIGHLIGHT OF MY

                    DAY TODAY WAS LISTENING TO THOSE SCHOOL CHILDREN IN THE BACK RECITE OUR

                    PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WHEN WE STARTED SESSION TODAY.

                                 SO, ARE WE PERFECT AS A COUNTRY?  NO.  BUT WE SHOULD

                    NEVER STOP STRIVING TO BE BETTER.  BUT THAT FLAG STANDS FOR THAT

                    CONTINUING STRIVING TO BE WHAT RONALD REAGAN CALLED MANKIND'S BEST

                    HOPE.  SO, I'M PROUD TO RECOGNIZE TODAY AS FLAG DAY.  I COMMEND THE

                    SPONSOR FOR THIS RESOLUTION AND I THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR SUPPORTING IT.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LALOR.

                                 MR. LALOR:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  IF YOU

                    BELIEVE THAT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR WHICH OUR FLAG STANDS HAS

                    BEEN ANYTHING BUT A FORCE FOR GOOD IN THE WORLD, ON BALANCE, HAS BEEN

                    A FORCE FOR HUMAN FREEDOM OVER THE LAST 240 YEARS, IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE

                    THAT, YOU'RE REALLY NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO HISTORY.  WE'RE IMPERFECT, BUT

                    IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE UNITED STATES HAS DONE ON BALANCE IN OUR

                    HISTORY, WE HAVE LIBERATED PEOPLE, WE HAVE LIBERATED CONTINENTS; WE

                    HAVE SET AN EXAMPLE FOR THE WORLD.  OUR SOLDIERS NOT ONLY DEFEND US,

                    WE DEFEND OTHER COUNTRIES.  WE HAVE PROVIDED HUMANITARIAN RELIEF.

                    AND AS WE SPEAK RIGHT NOW, THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS ARE AROUND THE

                    WORLD PROVIDING FOR OTHER COUNTRIES.  WE'VE ASKED FOR VERY LITTLE IN

                    RETURN.

                                 LAST WEEK WAS D-DAY, THE COMMEMORATION OF

                                         138



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    D-DAY, 74 YEARS, AND YOU THINK ABOUT ALL THE AMERICAN LIVES LOST IN

                    EUROPE, AND THE ONLY LAND THAT THE UNITED STATES HOLDS IN EUROPE, IN

                    FRANCE ON THOSE BEACHES ARE THE AMERICAN CEMETERIES.  AND I THINK

                    THAT SAYS A LOT.  AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE FLAG, I THINK OF FLAG

                    RAISINGS, LIKE ON MOUNT SURIBACHI AND IWO JIMA WHEN IMPERIAL JAPAN

                    WAS TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.  A BRUTAL, BRUTAL REGIME WAS

                    STOPPED.  AND A BIG PART OF THAT WAS THE PACIFIC CAMPAIGN, AND A BIG

                    PART OF THE INSPIRATION BEHIND THE SUCCESS OF THAT CAMPAIGN WAS OUR

                    MARINES RAISING THAT FLAG ON SURIBACHI.

                                 AND YOU FAST-FORWARD A COUPLE OF DECADES, PRESIDENT

                    KENNEDY SAID, I WANT TO GO TO THE MOON BY THE END OF THE YEAR -- BY

                    THE END OF THE DECADE, AND WE WERE THERE BY 1969.  AND WHAT DID WE

                    DO ON THE MOON?  WE RAISED THAT FLAG AS A SYMBOL OF OUR INGENUITY, AS

                    A SYMBOL OF OUR DETERMINATION, AS A SYMBOL OF PUSHING BOUNDARIES AND

                    TRYING TO EXPAND OUR HORIZONS.  AND REMEMBER THAT DAY 17 YEARS AGO,

                    SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2001, A DARK, DARK DAY; 3,000 AMERICANS KILLED.  THE

                    BEGINNING OF THE RECOVERY STARTED WHEN THREE NEW YORK CITY FIREMEN

                    RAISED THAT WILL FLAG DOWN ON GROUND ZERO, NOT THAT FAR FROM HERE.

                                 AND ON A PERSONAL NOTE, WHEN I WAS A YOUNG MARINE

                    CARRYING A MACHINE GUN IN IRAQ IN THE EARLY DAYS OF OPERATION IRAQI

                    FREEDOM, WE GOT OUR FIRST MAIL CALL ON -- ON EASTER SUNDAY IN 2003.

                    AND I GOT SOME -- I GOT SOME COOKIES AND SOME -- SOME NOTES FROM MY

                    FAMILY MEMBERS, AND MY FATHER ALSO INCLUDED AMERICAN -- AN

                    AMERICAN FLAG IN THAT CARE PACKAGE.  AND WE PUT IT UP IN WHAT WE

                    CALLED OUR "HOOCH".  WE PRESENTED IT AND FLEW IT PROUDLY.  AND SOON ALL

                                         139



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    THE OTHER SQUADS AND PLATOONS IN OUR UNIT WROTE HOME AND SAID, HEY,

                    SEND US A FLAG.  AND ALL THESE YOUNG MARINES, LONG -- A LONG WAY FROM

                    HOME, DREW INSPIRATION AND HOPE FROM HAVING THAT FLAG NEAR US EVERY

                    DAY.

                                 SO, I AM VERY PROUD OF OUR FLAG.  I'M PROUD TO SAY I

                    DEFENDED IT.  I THINK EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM SHOULD DEFEND IT, WE ALL --

                    WE ALL TOOK AN OATH TO DEFEND OUR CONSTITUTION.  I THINK WE SHOULD DO

                    THAT.  AND FLAG DAY, AN IMPORTANT DAY, I'M GLAD THAT WE HAVE THIS

                    RESOLUTION AND I COMMEND THE SPONSOR.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ASHBY.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I, TOO,

                    WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS RESOLUTION AND THANK

                    -- THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING IT UP.  I WOULD HOPE THAT MY

                    COLLEAGUE, MR. BARRON, WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE ALSO, NOT ONLY THE MISTAKES

                    THAT WERE MADE IN THE PAST, BUT THE GROWTH THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS

                    AFFORDED ALL PEOPLE, AND CONTINUES TO AFFORD ALL PEOPLE.  AND WOULD

                    ALSO LOOK AROUND THIS ROOM AND THE SUPPORT OF OUR FLAG, AND WHAT IT

                    CONTINUES TO DO FOR PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD.  AND

                    THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN LAYING DOWN THEIR

                    LIVES EVERY SINGLE DAY, EVERY DAY, SO WE CAN PERPETUATE THIS GREAT

                    EXPERIMENT, AND CONTINUE ON WITH THE FREEDOMS THAT WE HOLD SO DEARLY,

                    AND TO EVEN ALLOW FOR SOME OF THE THINGS, WHETHER THEY WERE SPECTACLES

                    OR DEMONSTRATIONS THAT TOOK PLACE TODAY, THEY EMBRACE THAT, THEY

                    PROTECT THOSE VERY FREEDOMS.  SO I WOULD HOPE THAT MY COLLEAGUE

                    WOULD ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TODAY, AND I'M PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS

                                         140



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    RESOLUTION.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE RIGHT

                    TO PROTEST IS ENSHRINED IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.  EXERCISING THAT RIGHT

                    IS A HIGHEST FORM OF PATRIOTISM.  INCREASINGLY, WE SEE SHAMEFUL EFFORTS

                    TO STIFLE AMERICANS WHO SPEAK OUT AGAINST MANY INJUSTICES IN OUR

                    COUNTRY:  SYSTEMIC RACISM, SEXISM, INCOME EQUALITY, POVERTY THAT

                    BREEDS THESE ATROCITIES, POLICE BRUTALITY AND MASS INCARCERATION THAT

                    PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE SUBJECT TO EVERY DAY.  EIGHT-NINE PERCENT OF THE

                    8,000 PEOPLE SITTING IN RIKERS ISLAND ARE BLACK AND LATINO.

                    SEVENTY-NINE PERCENT ARE AWAITING TRIAL.  KALIEF BROWDER SAT IN RIKERS

                    FOR THREE YEARS WITHOUT HAVING EVER BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME, AND

                    THEN HE TOOK HIS OWN LIFE.

                                 IN NEW YORK CITY WE SEE -- WITNESS THESE HORRORS

                    EVERY DAY, LIKE THE -- THE KILLING OF ERIC GARNER.  WE OWE THOSE WHO

                    HAVE SUFFERED SUCH GRAVE INJUSTICES THE ABILITY TO SPEAK OUT, LIKE COLIN

                    KAEPERNICK HAS ON THE NATIONAL STAGE.  RISKING HIS OWN CAREER, HE'S

                    USED THIS PLATFORM TO PUSH FORWARD THE ISSUES AROUND RACIAL INJUSTICE

                    AND POLICE BRUTALITY IN THIS COUNTRY.  HIS PEACEFUL ACT OF TAKING A KNEE

                    DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM HAS EARNED HIM UNDUE RETALIATION THAT HAS

                    JEOPARDIZED HIS CAREER.

                                 HERE IN OUR OWN BACKYARD, IN ALBANY, PEACEFUL

                    PROTESTERS, THE POOR PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN, HAVE BEEN INTIMIDATED WITH

                    FRIVOLOUS BILLS FOR THEIR PEACEFUL ACTIONS HERE IN THIS CHAMBER, IN THIS

                    BUILDING.  IT'S AN OUTRAGEOUS EFFORT TO ATTEMPT TO SILENCE THOSE WHO ARE

                                         141



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    STANDING UP FOR THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY

                    MARGINALIZED.

                                 SO, IN THE SPIRIT OF FLAG DAY, I WOULD ASK MY

                    COLLEAGUES TO SIT AND REFLECT ON THE ORIGINS OF OUR COUNTRY, THE VALUES

                    ON WHICH IT WAS FOUNDED ON, DISSENT AND PROTESTS, THE REVOLUTIONARY

                    SPIRIT THE FLAG REPRESENTS.  LET'S ENSURE THAT WE'RE LIVING UP TO THOSE

                    VALUES EVERY DAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I HAD NO

                    INTENTION OF SPEAKING ON THIS MEASURE.  FLAG DAY, JUNE 14TH, IN MY

                    HOME, WAS ALWAYS CELEBRATED AS MY PARENTS' ANNIVERSARY.  SO, IT SORT OF

                    OVERSHADOWED THE MEANING OF THE FLAG.  BUT IN HEARING THE

                    CONVERSATION TODAY, I THINK BACK, IT IS AN IMPERFECT COUNTRY.  WE STRIVE,

                    BUT THERE ARE PRINCIPLES THAT ARE ALLEGED THAT ATTEND TO THIS FLAG.

                                 THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY, THERE HAVE BEEN ACTIONS BY

                    THE GOVERNMENT THAT HAVE TARNISHED THAT FLAG.  IN WORLD WAR II,

                    AMERICANS RESPONDED TO THE CRIES OF EUROPEANS, PARTICULARLY THE BRITS,

                    WHO STOOD UP TO NAZI ATROCITIES.  AND WE RESPONDED.  BUT THERE WERE

                    ALSO PEOPLE TRYING TO FLEE THE NAZIS, AND THIS COUNTRY DENIED THEM

                    REFUGE, JUST AS THIS COUNTRY TODAY IS DENYING REFUGE TO PEOPLE FLEEING

                    VIOLENCE THAT IS BEYOND OUR PERSONAL IMAGINATIONS.

                                 MOST RECENTLY, THIS FLAG HAS BEEN TARNISHED WITH THE

                    DISGRACEFUL AND OUTRAGEOUS TEARING APART OF FAMILIES AT THE BORDER,

                    REMOVING CHILDREN FROM THEIR FAMILIES, FROM THEIR MOTHERS AND FATHERS.

                    THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS FLAG IS SUPPOSED TO STAND FOR.  WE ARE NOT

                                         142



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    SUPPOSED TO STAND FOR UNDERMINING THE VERY BASIC HUMANITY OF PEOPLE,

                    AND THAT IS WHAT IS BEING DONE IN OUR NAME TODAY BY OUR GOVERNMENT.

                    IT IS SHOCKING, IT IS HORRIFYING, AND I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE IS ANOTHER

                    ADMINISTRATION IN MEMORY -- I DON'T BELIEVE THAT RONALD REAGAN, FOR

                    ALL OF THE REASONS I DISAGREED WITH HIM, I DON'T BELIEVE RONALD REAGAN,

                    WHO BELIEVED THERE SHOULD BE A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP FOR PEOPLE WHO

                    WERE HERE WITHOUT DOCUMENTATION - AS THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO

                    HAVE COME TO OUR SHORES WITHOUT DOCUMENTATION SINCE WE BECAME A

                    COUNTRY - I DO NOT BELIEVE, THAT HE WOULD BE PROUD OF WHAT IS

                    HAPPENING TODAY IN OUR NAME.

                                 SO, I CELEBRATE THE FREEDOM AND THE HOPE AND THE

                    PROMISE THAT THE FLAG IS -- HAS ALWAYS BEEN INTENDED TO BE A BEACON

                    ACROSS THE WORLD, BUT THAT BEACON HAS BEEN SHUT OFF AND IT NO LONGER

                    REPRESENTS THE HOPE, THE DREAM.  AND IT IS BECAUSE I HAVE TAKEN AN OATH

                    TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, I STAND HERE TODAY TO SAY THESE WORDS

                    BECAUSE THE BEACON SHOULD NOT BE SHUT OFF, IT MUST BE REIGNITED.

                    DEMOCRACY MUST BE RESTORED.  AND THIS FLAG WILL, AGAIN, BE A BEACON TO

                    THE WORLD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. TAYLOR.

                                 MR. TAYLOR:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  LIKE SO

                    MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES, I, TOO, AM A FORMER MILITARY -- PROUD TO SERVE

                    IN THE MILITARY AS A MILITARY POLICE OFFICER AND ALL THAT IT REPRESENTED.

                    AND STILL, I RISE BECAUSE OF THE HOPE THAT THE FLAG OFFERS, BUT I -- I THINK

                    WE ARE DISILLUSIONED IF WE STAND HERE TODAY AND DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS

                    FLAG ENCUMBERS ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT MY COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT.

                                         143



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 BUT, YET, WE MUST STRIVE ON.  THERE'S SO MANY THINGS

                    THAT WE NEED TO ACCOMPLISH, BUT WE HAVE TO, I THINK, BEGIN WITH

                    UNDERSTANDING THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED.  IT EXISTS.  IT'S PART OF OUR

                    HISTORY, AND WE CAN'T HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER.  AND WHEN WE SPEAK

                    TO THOSE THINGS I THINK IT'S OFFENSIVE, AT LEAST I FEEL OFFENDED, THAT SOME

                    FOLKS WILL TALK ABOUT HOW GREAT THIS IS.  YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T GREAT

                    GROWING UP IN THE SOUTH WHERE I WAS.  AND WHEN I LEAVE HERE, I DRIVE

                    ALL THE WAY TO NEW YORK CITY WITH A BOW AND TIE ON, BECAUSE WHEN I'M

                    STOPPED BY POLICE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S ROOM FOR

                    DISCUSSION.  I LIVE IN THAT WORLD.  I LIVE IN TWO WORLDS.  AND WHEN

                    YOU'RE DRIVING, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU'VE DONE, IT REALLY -- YOU DON'T

                    HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

                                 SO, I LIVE IN A WORLD THAT I -- I THANK AND I TRY TO HONOR

                    THIS FLAG, BUT I LIVE IN A CULTURE THAT DOESN'T HONOR WHO I AM.  I LIVE IN A

                    PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE BIGOTED AND THEY SEE MY SKIN COMPLEXION

                    BEFORE THEY SEE ME.  I INSTRUCT MY SON THAT WHEN HE DRIVES HIS VEHICLE,

                    TAKE NO PEOPLE WITH YOU.  I INSTRUCT MY SON THAT WHEN HE'S STOPPED,

                    TURN ON THE LIGHT -- I RUN A WHOLE DRILL ABOUT MY CHILD AND WHAT HE

                    SHOULD DO WHEN STOPPED BY THE POLICE.  I DON'T KNOW IF MY COLLEAGUES

                    ACROSS THE AISLE LIVING BESIDE ME HAVE THAT CONVERSATION -- HAVE EVER

                    HAD THAT CONVERSATION.  I WANT MY CHILD HOME.  AND I'M CONCERNED

                    WHEN HE'S STOPPED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT.  ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT IS NOT

                    BAD, BUT SOMETIMES OUR COMPLEXION MAKES PEOPLE NERVOUS.  AND TO

                    MAKE HIM AT EASE, I TELL MY SON:  DO THIS, DO THIS, AND DO THIS.  AND

                    HE'S GRADUATING FROM PENN STATE.  HE'S GOING TO BE FINE.  HE'S A

                                         144



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WONDERFUL YOUNG MAN.  BUT HE NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THE RULES OF THE

                    GAME.

                                 AND SO, WE LIVE IN AN IMPERFECT SOCIETY.  BUT LET US

                    NOT FORGET THAT A LOT OF FOLKS LABORED TO MAKE THESE STRIPES.  AND, AGAIN,

                    I PUT ON A UNIFORM, I SERVED TO -- AND I TOOK THE OATH TO PROTECT THIS

                    COUNTRY.  AND I DO.  I HONOR THAT.  BUT, I -- I WANT US TO BE ON A FAIR,

                    LEVEL PLAYING FIELD WHEN WE HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PAST, BECAUSE

                    PEOPLE KIND OF ROMANTICIZE THE PAST, AND THE PAST MAY HAVE BEEN THOSE

                    THINGS FOR YOU, BUT NOT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.

                                 AND -- AND SO, IF WE'RE GOING TO BE HERE AND WE'RE

                    GOING TO REPRESENT THIS GREAT STATE, WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THERE ARE A

                    LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T HAVE, AND WHETHER YOU WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT

                    OR NOT, FOLKS ARE PRIVILEGED.  PRIVILEGED.  AND IT MAY NOT, IT'S JUST THE

                    WAY LIFE IS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.  BUT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, IT'S

                    DIFFERENT.  SO, I JUST WANT US TO -- AND, AGAIN, I WANT TO COMMEND THE

                    SPEAKER FOR -- I'M SORRY, MY COLLEAGUE FOR INTRODUCING THIS RESOLUTION.

                    AND ON FLAG DAY WE SHOULD CELEBRATE.  BUT IN THAT CELEBRATION, JUST

                    LOOK BACK AT WHERE WE'VE COME FROM AND WHERE YET WE HAVE TO GO TO.

                    THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE FLAG:  TO REMIND US WHERE WE'VE BEEN AND

                    WHERE WE YET HAVE TO GET TO.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MR. COLTON.

                                 MR. COLTON:  MR. SPEAKER, YOU KNOW, I HAVE

                    ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN PRINCIPLES THAT WE MUST FOLLOW,

                    AND THERE ARE CERTAIN ASPIRATIONS THAT WE HAVE ALL HAVE AND CONCERNS

                                         145



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    AND NEEDS.  AND IT IS BY BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER THAT WE HAVE THE BEST

                    CHANCE OF ACHIEVING THOSE ASPIRATIONS AND MEETING THE NEEDS AND

                    CONCERNS OF OTHERS.  THERE IS NO ONE IN THIS ROOM WHO IS PERFECT.

                    THERE IS NO NATION IN THIS WORLD WHO IS PERFECT.  HUMAN NATURE IS SUCH

                    THAT THERE IS EVIL IN THE WORLD.  BUT I DON'T INTEND TO CONCEDE THE VALUE

                    AND THE SYMBOLISM OF A FLAG, OF A FLAG THAT PEOPLE HAVE DIED FOR.  THEY

                    ARE NOT DYING FOR EVIL THINGS OR BAD THINGS THAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED,

                    THEY ARE DYING BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN CERTAIN PRINCIPLES AND

                    ASPIRATIONS.  AND IT IS BY FOCUSING ON THOSE PRINCIPLES, WE ASPIRE TO

                    FREEDOM, WE ASPIRE TO DEMOCRACY, WE ASPIRE TO BRINGING OUT THE BEST IN

                    PEOPLE.  THAT IS WHAT THE FLAG SYMBOLIZES.

                                 HAVE WE ACHIEVED IT?  NO.  IS IT, IN FACT, TRUE THAT

                    THERE ARE MANY WRONGS AND INJUSTICES, MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUFFERED

                    FROM RACISM, FROM HUNGER, FROM ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE BAD?  THAT

                    MAY BE TRUE, BUT I DON'T INTEND TO CONCEDE THE ASPIRATIONS THAT OUR FLAG

                    REPRESENTS, AND THAT'S WHY I WEAR A FLAG ON MY LAPEL EVERY DAY.

                    BECAUSE WE MUST CONCENTRATE ON BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER, ON ASPIRING

                    TO DO BETTER.  AND WHEN WE CONCENTRATE ON THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE IN

                    COMMON, WE CAN OVERCOME THE THINGS THAT ARE BAD THAT DON'T BELONG AS

                    PART OF OUR NATION, AS PART OF OUR WORLD.

                                 SO, YES, I BELIEVE WE CAN HONOR THE FLAG AS A SYMBOL

                    FOR OUR IDEALS AND OUR ASPIRATIONS.  AND I BELIEVE WE MUST WORK TO

                    OVERCOME THE MANY EVILS THAT DO EXIST THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD,

                    NOT JUST IN OUR NATION, IN EVERY NATION.  AND BY DOING THAT, WE HAVE THE

                    BEST CHANCE OF OVERCOMING THEM.  SO, I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR

                                         146



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    FOR INTRODUCING THIS RESOLUTION.  AND I SEE IT AS A RESOLUTION THAT

                    RECOGNIZES THE IDEALS AND THE ASPIRATIONS OF THIS COUNTRY AND OF ALL

                    PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL, TO OVERCOME THE THINGS THAT WE ARE NOT PROUD OF,

                    TO BRING US TOGETHER TO ACHIEVE THE GOOD AND THE IDEALS THAT WE SHOULD

                    BE ASPIRING TO.  SO, I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED SYMBOLS, AND I THINK WE

                    SHOULD TRY TO BRING OUT THE GOOD IN THE SYMBOLS THAT WE UNITE AROUND.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. CRESPO.

                                 MR. CRESPO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ON THE

                    RESOLUTION.  I -- I, TOO, WAS NOT EXPECTING TO SHARE SOME THOUGHTS, BUT

                    SOMETHING THAT I -- I MUST SHARE.  AND, FOR ONE, I APPRECIATE THE HISTORY

                    LESSON THAT WAS PRESENTED TO US.  THOSE ARE NOT STORIES, THOSE ARE FACTS

                    ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS A NATION AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH AND A

                    HISTORY THAT MANY MAY WANT TO BRUSH OFF OR WASH OFF, BUT CANNOT BE

                    FORGOTTEN.  ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE REMINDED OF IT EVERY SINGLE DAY IN

                    POLICIES THAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE HERE IN THIS CHAMBER.

                                 BUT I MUST SAY THIS -- AND THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT I

                    COULD, YOU KNOW, TALK ABOUT, BUT SOME HAVE ALREADY BEEN

                    WELL-PRESENTED, THE TREATMENT OF IMMIGRANTS BEING ONE OF THEM; THE

                    TREATMENT OF PEOPLE OF COLOR IN OUR POLICING AND -- AND OVER-POLICING IN

                    SOME COMMUNITIES IS ANOTHER.  BUT I WANT TO TOUCH ON A NUMBER,

                    4,645.  FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT NUMBER, THAT IS

                    THE NUMBER IN A RECENT HARVARD STUDY OF THE -- OF DEATHS IN PUERTO RICO

                    BECAUSE OF HURRICANE MARIA.  AND I MENTION THAT NUMBER IN REFERENCE

                    TO THIS FLAG, BECAUSE I WAS BORN IN PUERTO RICO, I'M AN AMERICAN

                    CITIZEN, AND PROUDLY WILL SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION AND PROUDLY HAVE THIS

                                         147



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    FLAG ON MY DESK, BECAUSE I'M AN AMERICAN CITIZEN.  AMERICAN CITIZEN

                    BECAUSE I WAS BORN IN PUERTO RICO.  AMERICAN CITIZEN BECAUSE FOR THE

                    LAST 100 PLUS YEARS, PUERTO RICO HAS BEEN A PART OF THIS NATION, BUT AS A

                    COLONY.  CALL IT A COMMONWEALTH IF YOU WANT TO BE POETIC ABOUT IT.

                    MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, IT'S A COLONY.  A COLONY THAT SAW THE MOST

                    DEVASTATING NATURAL DISASTER IN ITS HISTORY, THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN

                    CITIZENS DIED, AND IT'S STILL BEGGING IN CONGRESS FOR SOME ASSISTANCE.

                    AND -- AND YES, SOME THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE, BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE

                    ABOUT IT, THE TREATMENT OF THE PEOPLE OF PUERTO RICO AND THE U.S.

                    VIRGIN ISLANDS HAS BEEN A STAIN AND AN INSULT TO THE VERY DEMOCRACY WE

                    ALL WANT TO CELEBRATE.

                                 AND -- AND I'LL REMIND FOLKS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN

                    THEY TALK ABOUT THE MILITARY AND OUR VETERANS AND, YES, I CELEBRATE EACH

                    AND EVERY ONE OF THEM AS WELL, INCLUDING THE THOUSANDS UPON

                    THOUSANDS, THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OVER THE YEARS OF PUERTO RICAN

                    VETERANS WHO HAVE ALSO DIED, WHO HAVE ALSO SERVED, AND WHO WHEREVER

                    THEY ARE IN HEAVEN NOW ARE LOOKING DOWN OF THE EMBARRASSMENT OF THE

                    TREATMENT OF THEIR LINAGE BY THE VERY COUNTRY AND FLAG THAT THEY

                    SACRIFICED TO DEFEND.

                                 SO, WHAT -- WHAT I SUGGEST IS THAT WHILE I CELEBRATE

                    THIS FLAG - AND WE ALL HAVE SHOULD - AND WE ALL, AS BEEN ELOQUENTLY

                    STATED BY OTHER SPEAKERS, YOU KNOW, NEED TO ASPIRE TO THE VERY BEST OF

                    WHAT WE STAND FOR AND -- AND UNDERSTAND THAT YES, THERE ARE VERY

                    NEGATIVE THINGS AND STAINS IN HISTORY THAT WE WON'T BE ABLE TO FORGET, OR

                    DENY.  THERE IS NO SYMBOL THAT IS PURE.  ON EARTH, EVERYTHING CARRIES

                                         148



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WITH IT THE GOOD AND THE BAD; IT'S JUST A BALANCE OF LIFE.  I AM A PERSON

                    OF FAITH.  AND, YET, THE VERY TEACHINGS AND THE VERY BOOK THAT I BASE

                    SOME OF THAT IS STAINED AS WELL BY -- BY ITS OWN HISTORY.  THINGS THAT

                    HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE NAME OF HE WHO I CREDIT WITH LIFE, ARE NOT

                    NECESSARILY A GREAT HISTORY TO-- TO ACKNOWLEDGE, BUT -- BUT THEY'RE TRUE.

                                 AND SO, MUCH LIKE THAT, THIS IS ANOTHER ONE.  I

                    CELEBRATE THIS FLAG.  I WANT MY COMMUNITY IN PUERTO RICO TO CONTINUE

                    TO BE PROUD AMERICAN CITIZENS.  AND I BELIEVE THAT THE ISSUE OF STATUS

                    FOR ALL THE TERRITORIES NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED IN ORDER FOR EVERY AMERICAN

                    TO FEEL LIKE AN AMERICAN.  I CAN'T BEGIN TO TELL YOU HOW MANY TEARS --

                    HOW MANY -- HOW MANY FAMILIES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED BECAUSE OF A

                    TRAGEDY, AND THE VERY FLAG THAT WE'VE BEEN... I DON'T WANT TO SAY FORCED,

                    ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FACTS AND HISTORY.  PUERTO

                    RICO DIDN'T CALL ON -- PEOPLE IN PUERTO RICO DIDN'T CALL ON THE

                    AMERICAN GOVERNMENT TO INVADE BACK IN 1898, BUT -- BUT THE

                    AMERICANS CAME IN AND LIBERATED US FROM SPAIN, YET, MADE US A PART OF

                    THE AMERICAN EXPERIMENT, ONLY TO TREAT US DIFFERENTLY OVER THE YEARS.

                                 SO, ON BEHALF OF EVERY PUERTO RICAN WHO HAS FOUGHT

                    IN A WAR TO DEFEND THIS FLAG, ON BEHALF OF THE 4,645 LIVES LOST IN PUERTO

                    RICO BECAUSE OF HURRICANE MARIA, AND THEIR FAMILIES STILL STRUGGLING, I

                    ASK ALL OF YOU WHO ARE VOTING FOR THIS AND WHO WANT THE VERY BEST FOR

                    OUR NATION AND WHO SUPPORT THIS FLAG, TO REMEMBER THEM, AS WELL, AND

                    TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IF WE ARE TO BECOME ALL THOSE GREAT THINGS THAT THIS

                    FLAG REPRESENTS, THEN WE NEED TO START BEING HONEST ABOUT THE FAULTS THAT

                    WE HAVE.  WE NEED TO START ADDRESSING THESE THINGS IN A VERY REAL WAY

                                         149



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    AND PUTTING ASIDE PARTISAN POLITICS AND JUST TREATING AMERICANS FOR

                    WHAT THEY ARE:  THE VERY PEOPLE PROMISED LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT

                    OF HAPPINESS.  I'LL BE VOTING -- SUPPORT THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PICHARDO.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AND A

                    LOT -- LIKE A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES, I WASN'T PLANNING ON SPEAKING ON THIS

                    RESOLUTION, BUT I WAS MOVED TO DO SO FROM THE CONVERSATIONS THAT HAVE

                    BEEN HAVING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT THE SYMBOLISM AND WHAT THIS FLAG

                    MEANS.  AND I'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO COME TO GRIPS FOR MYSELF AND WHAT

                    THIS FLAG SYMBOLIZES FOR MYSELF, FOR MY FAMILY, FOR MY FELLOW

                    AMERICANS OF ALL RACES, COLORS, CREEDS, SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS, AND THE

                    LIKE.  I KNOW THAT THIS FLAG IS STITCHED TOGETHER BY THE SACRIFICES OF

                    MANY AMERICANS THROUGHOUT THE AGES TO PUSH FOR A MORE PERFECT UNION.

                    IT IS STITCHED TOGETHER LIKE HEROES WHO PARTICIPATE AS PART OF THE

                    TUSKEGEE AIRMEN, OR PARTICULAR, DR. ROSCOE BROWN, WHO IS THE

                    PRESIDENT OF BRONX COMMUNITY COLLEGE THAT I HAVE THE HONOR OF

                    REPRESENTING, AND SUFFERED THE INJUSTICES FROM HIS ENTIRE LIFE SO THAT HE

                    IS CONSIDERED AS AMERICAN AS ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES.  IT IS LIKE MY

                    BROTHER, JOSE, WHO SERVED IN THE 101ST AIRBORNE DURING OPERATION IRAQI

                    FREEDOM AND SERVED HIS COUNTRY VALIANTLY WITH DIGNITY TO THE POINT THAT

                    HE IS SUCH A HUMBLE MAN, HE DOESN'T TALK ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES, BUT AT

                    THE SAME TIME, I KNOW THAT INSIDE HE IS PROUD THAT HE SERVED HIS

                    COUNTRY VALIANTLY AND PROUDLY.

                                 ULTIMATELY, WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE

                    AND REMEMBER WHAT THIS FLAG MEANS IS TO PUSH THE IDEA THAT WE ARE

                                         150



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    STRIVING FOR A MORE PERFECT UNION.  BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE NEED TO

                    ACKNOWLEDGE THE BLACK MARKS IN THE PAST THAT HAVE REPRESENTED THIS

                    FLAG, LIKE 100 YEARS AGO I'M PRETTY SURE I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SHARE THE

                    SAME BATHROOMS AS SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ARE.  THE IDEA THAT RIGHT

                    NOW, AS MY COLLEAGUE SO ELOQUENTLY STATED, THAT THERE ARE 4,645 LIVES

                    THAT WERE LOST BECAUSE OF THE INEPTITUDE AND THE IGNORANCE OF OUR

                    FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO INTERCEDE AND SUPPORT THEM IN THEIR TIME OF

                    NEED.  MY WIFE IS PUERTO RICAN.  MY DAUGHTER IS PUERTO RICAN.  MY

                    NEPHEW, WHO WAS BORN YESTERDAY, IS PUERTO RICAN.  THEY DESERVE, AND

                    OUR FAMILIES DESERVE TO HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AND RESPECT THAT ANY OTHER

                    AMERICAN IN THIS CHAMBER OR ACROSS THE COUNTRY DESERVE TO HAVE.  WE

                    NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT FOLKS, REGARDLESS OF THEIR RACE, THEIR CREED, THEIR

                    SKIN COLOR ARE RESPECTED, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THESE IDEALS OF THIS FLAG

                    ARE SUPPOSED TO SIGNIFY.  AGAIN, IT'S BEEN SAID THAT THIS EXPERIMENT

                    HASN'T BEEN PERFECT, BUT IT IS OUR DUTY TO CALL OUT INDIVIDUALS WHO PUSH

                    OUR COMMUNITIES FURTHER APART.  BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, RECOGNIZE THE

                    STAINS AND THE INJUSTICES THAT HAVE ALLOWED CERTAIN PEOPLE TO GET INTO

                    POWER.

                                 NOW, WHAT THIS -- WHAT THIS FLAG ALSO MEANS FOR ME IS

                    THAT A YOUNG MAN FROM THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC BACK IN THE 1970S WAS

                    ABLE TO EMIGRATE HERE, MEET HIS WIFE, START A FAMILY, AND THAT HIS SON

                    WOULD BE TO SIT IN THIS LEGISLATURE, DEBATING BILLS AS IMPACTFUL THAT WILL

                    REVERBERATE FOR THIS ENTIRE COUNTRY.  THAT'S WHAT ALSO THIS FLAG MEANS TO

                    ME.  BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE LOOK AT

                    THIS HOLISTICALLY AND NEVER FORGET OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS EITHER IN

                                         151



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    PUERTO RICO OR ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD, AND THAT THE AMERICAN

                    EXCEPTIONALISM THAT I BELIEVE IN IS THAT WE OPEN OUR HANDS AND WE

                    OPEN OUR HEARTS TO HELP OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN NEED.  I PROUDLY

                    SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MURRAY.

                                 MR. MURRAY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M

                    SPEAKING NOW BECAUSE I HAVE SO MANY MIXED EMOTIONS, BECAUSE

                    LISTENING TO MY COLLEAGUES AND SOME OF THE THINGS THEY SAY, YOU'RE

                    RIGHT, WE HAVE BLACK MARKS, WE DO HAVE SOME BAD TIMES IN OUR HISTORY,

                    AND AS THEY SAY, THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO FORGET HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO

                    REPEAT IT.  WE DON'T WANT THOSE THINGS REPEATED.  AT THE SAME TIME, THIS

                    FLAG, IT MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO EVERYONE.  IT'S A SYMBOL.  IT

                    SYMBOLIZES THIS GREAT NATION.  IT SYMBOLIZES THAT WE STRIVE TO BE BETTER.

                    IT SYMBOLIZES THE -- THE CONTINUING EFFORT TO GET PAST SOME OF THE BAD

                    AND TO BE AS GOOD AS WE CAN.  I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER FOUND THE FLAG OF

                    UTOPIA BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT EXISTS.  THERE'S NOTHING PERFECT IN THIS

                    WORLD, BUT WE'RE TRYING.

                                 WE HAVE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE EVERY YEAR TRYING TO COME

                    TO THIS NATION BECAUSE IT REPRESENTS HOPE.  IT REPRESENTS OPPORTUNITY.

                    MEN AND WOMEN WILLING TO LAY THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE AND -- AND GIVE IT

                    ALL TO PRESERVE THESE FREEDOMS AND THIS OPPORTUNITY TO -- FOR THOSE, I

                    ACTUALLY -- I FEEL SORRY FOR THOSE THAT SEE THIS FLAG AND SEE DOOM AND

                    DESPAIR.  I REALLY FEEL SORRY FOR YOU IF YOU JUST SEE NEGATIVE WHEN YOU

                    SEE THIS FLAG, BECAUSE I SEE HOPE.  I SEE FREEDOM.  I SEE GOODNESS.  AS

                    ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES SAID BEFORE, IN ONE OF OUR DARKEST TIMES IN OUR

                                         152



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    HISTORY IN OUR LIFETIME, WHEN WE WERE ATTACKED, THIS NATION WAS

                    ATTACKED, WE WERE DOWN, WE WERE HURTING, WE WERE IN TEARS, WE WERE

                    STRUGGLING TO FIND HOPE.  AND YOU KNOW WHAT BROUGHT IT TO US?  WHEN

                    WE DID RAISE THAT FLAG RIGHT AFTER SEPTEMBER 11TH.  AND IT BROUGHT US ALL

                    TOGETHER.  ALL OF US, NOT ASKING WHAT IS YOUR PARTY AFFILIATION, IT DIDN'T

                    MATTER ABOUT RACE OR RELIGION OR GENDER, IT MATTERED THAT WE WERE ALL

                    AMERICANS, WE WERE IN THIS TOGETHER.  AND THAT'S WHAT THIS SYMBOLIZES.

                                 I'M PROUD OF THIS FLAG.  I WILL FOREVER BE PROUD OF THIS

                    FLAG AND THE EFFORTS THAT WE ALL MAKE TO CONTINUALLY STRIVE TO BE BETTER.

                    AND TO ME, THAT'S WHAT THAT REPRESENTS.  SO, I PROUDLY SUPPORT THIS

                    RESOLUTION AND I THANK MY COLLEAGUE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RIVERA.

                                 MR. RIVERA:  MR. SPEAKER -- MR. SPEAKER, THANK

                    YOU VERY MUCH.  WHEN MY MOTHER FIRST BROUGHT ME TO THIS GREAT CITY --

                    THIS GREAT STATE OF OURS, IT WAS ON SEPTEMBER 10TH, 1947.  OVER A

                    MILLION PEOPLE FROM PUERTO RICO ARRIVED DURING THAT DECADE, THE '40S.

                    I, MY MOTHER, MY TWO SISTER (SIC).  I RECALL MY FIRST DAY IN SCHOOL, 1948,

                    THE TEACHER ASKED ME, WHAT'S YOUR NAME?  I SAID, MY NAME IS JOSE

                    ANGEL RIVERA PADILLA DE CRUZ.  THE TEACHER SAY, WHAT?  JOSE ANGEL

                    RIVERA PADILLA DE CRUZ.  SHE SAID, NO, YOUR NAME IS JOSEPH.  I GAVE

                    UP.  FIRST MOMENT I -- I COMPROMISED.  I SAID, TEACHER, MY NAME IS

                    JOSE RIVERA.  SHE SAID, I CAN WORK WITH THAT, BECAUSE IF -- IF I CALL ALL OF

                    YOU BY YOUR FULL NAME, I WILL HAVE NO TIME TO -- TO GIVE YOU A GOOD

                    EDUCATION.  THERE WERE 40 KIDS IN THAT CLASS, ALL OF US ARRIVED RECENTLY

                    AT THAT MOMENT.  THEN SHE SAY, GET UP.  WE ALL GOT UP.  SHE SAID, I'M

                                         153



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    GOING TO TEACH YOU ALL A SONG THAT FOR THE REST OF YOU LIFE WILL LIVE WITH

                    YOU.  SO, WHEN THAT TEACHER STARTED SINGING, OH, SAY, CAN YOU SEE...  I

                    THOUGHT THAT SONG WAS BEING DEDICATED TO ME.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 AND I -- WHENEVER I GO BEFORE A GROUP OF -- CLASS OF

                    YOUNGSTERS, I SHARE MY EXPERIENCE.  WE WERE HOMELESS FOR SIX MONTHS.

                    SO I CAN TELL A STORY.  GROWING UP IN OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM, YOU HEAR A LOT

                    OF THINGS.  I LEARNED A LOT.

                                 LET ME -- LET ME SHARE SOMETHING WITH ALL OF YOU, THAT

                    MY FRIEND HERE, MY -- ONE OF MY LEADER -- NOT MY LEADER, SHARED ABOUT

                    1898.  PRIOR TO 1898, 1776, VOLUNTEERS AND RECRUITS IN THE SPANISH

                    ARMY, ALONG WITH CUBAN WERE PART OF THE SOLDIERS WHO KEPT THE BRITISH

                    VERY BUSY IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE UNITED STATES WHILE UNITED STATES

                    WERE BEGINNING TO GET OUT OF BEING A COLONY FROM ENGLAND.  WE

                    CONTRIBUTED.  BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE IN THOSE DAYS, OUR PEOPLE, MY

                    PEOPLE IN THOSE DAYS BELIEVED THAT THEY WERE INVESTING FINALLY IN A

                    COUNTRY, IN A FLAG, THAT WILL REALLY ACCEPT ALL OF US AS EQUAL.

                                 LISTEN, THIS IS JUST A CONTINUATION OF GROWING PAIN THAT

                    WE'RE GOING THROUGH IN THIS COUNTRY.  WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS.  THE

                    CIVIL RIGHTS STRUGGLE WAS NOT EASY FOR THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.  IT WAS

                    NOT EASY FOR MARTIN LUTHER KING.  IT WAS NOT EASY FOR ROSA PARKS.  IT

                    WAS NOT EASY FOR MEDGAR EVERS.  BUT THAT STRUGGLE TAUGHT US A LOT, THAT

                    YOU CAN STRUGGLE.  THERE ARE OTHER, LIKE MY (INAUDIBLE) BY ANY MEANS

                    NECESSARY, BUT WE STRUGGLE.  AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE GOT

                    INVOLVED IN STRUGGLING.

                                         154



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 NOW, LET'S GO BACK TO 1917.  THERE WAS A BIG

                    COMMUNITY IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK, PUERTO RICAN AND CUBAN AND

                    SPANISH.  BIG COMMUNITY.  AND THEY USED TO GATHER AT CHIMNEY HALL,

                    WHICH WAS LOCATED ON 26TH STREET, 25TH STREET AND 6TH AVENUE.  TODAY,

                    6TH AVENUE IS KNOWN AS THE AVENUE OF THE AMERICAS.  YOU KNOW

                    WHY?  BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE ONLY FLAG FLYING BY ITSELF THERE, THE

                    AVENUES OF AMERICAN.  EVERY COUNTRY, FROM SOUTH AND CENTRAL

                    AMERICA IS REPRESENTED, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MY FLAG.  THIS IS THE

                    PUERTO RICAN FLAG (INDICATING).  1917, THERE WAS A PROUD AMERICAN

                    SOLDIER.  HIS UNIFORM --YOU CAN LOOK IT UP, I'M GOING TO GIVE HIS NAME,

                    PEDRO ALBIZU CAMPO.  HIS MILITARY UNIFORM LOOKED LIKE SOMETHING

                    LIKE MY BROTHER, CHARLES BARRON, OUTFIT, ALBIZU CAMPO, A FIRST

                    LIEUTENANT IN THE U.S. ARMY.  BUT BECAUSE HE LOOKED LIKE CHARLES

                    BARRON, ALL RIGHT, AMERICA IN THOSE DAYS AFTER THEY INVADED US, THEY

                    WERE SMART, THOSE GUYS, THEY WERE VERY BRILLIANT.  THEY TOOK THE CREAM

                    OF THE CROP FROM OUR COUNTRY AND THEY TELL THEM TO LEAD US FOR THE

                    FUTURE, TO BE OUR LEADERS.  ALBIZU CAMPO WAS ONE OF THEM.  A YOUNG

                    MAN THAT CAME -- WAS BROUGHT HERE TO STUDY FROM PUERTO RICO IN HIS

                    AMERICAN UNIFORM, AND HE WAS PUT -- HE WAS SENT TO HARVARD

                    UNIVERSITY.  THERE HE MET THE IRISH COMMUNITY.  AND IT WAS THAT

                    DARK-SKINNED PUERTO RICAN IN THOSE DAYS WHO CAME UP WITH THE IDEA TO

                    CREATE A COMMITTEE TO FREE IRELAND.  LOOK IT UP.  LOOK IT UP.

                                 THAT SAME SOLDIER, AMERICAN SOLDIER, ALWAYS TAUGHT

                    US, LISTEN, THESE ARE DIFFICULT TIMES.  DON'T TAKE IT OUT ON THE FLAG,

                    BECAUSE UNDER THAT FLAG, THERE ARE GOOD PEOPLE.  THIS IS NOT LIKE THAT

                                         155



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    MOVIE FROM MARLON BRANDO THE -- THE UGLY AMERICAN, LOOK IT UP.

                    THAT MOVIE -- MOST OF YOU WERE NOT BORN, BUT THAT MOVIE CAME OUT,

                    THE UGLY AMERICAN, BUT THE BEHAVIOR OF THE UGLY AMERICANS --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR.  --

                                 MR. RIVERA:  -- UNDER THE FLAG CONTINUES --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RAMOS --

                                 MR. RIVERA:  RIVERA OR RAMOS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RIVERA.

                                 MR. RIVERA:  OKAY, GOOD.

                                 -- CONTINUES.  WE'RE GOING THROUGH DIFFICULT, PAINFUL

                    MOMENT.  I JUST HOPE THAT YOU REMEMBER -- SOME OF YOU LAUGH WHEN

                    SOMEBODY SAID, BUILD A WALL, AND THEY'RE HAPPY AND YOU LAUGH.  IT'S NOT

                    A JOKE.  YOU BUILD A WALL, FINISH UP THIS AND I WILL GO AND I'M GOING TO

                    CLIMB OVER IT.  NUMBER ONE, THE MEXICAN DID NOT BUILD A WALL WHEN ALL

                    OF YOU WERE MIGRATING TO ARIZONA.  GOD DID NOT BUILD A WALL.  THE

                    MEXICAN DID NOT BUILD A WALL.  AND WE ALL STRUGGLE --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. --

                                 MR. RIVERA:  -- TO BE PART OF THIS GREAT SOCIETY --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RIVERA, YOUR

                    TIME HAS ELAPSED.

                                 MR. RIVERA:  SO HAVING SAID THAT, I COULD GO ON FOR

                    HOURS -- (MICROPHONE SHUT OFF)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. RIVERA.  WE WILL LOOK FORWARD TO PART

                    TWO.

                                         156



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I,

                    BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WAS VERY HESITANT TO SPEAK, BECAUSE THE FLAG HAS A

                    SPECIAL SIGNIFICANCE TO ME.  IN -- IN 2001, MY DAUGHTER JOINED THE

                    MARINE CORPS.  CAME HOME, SHE WAS A SENIOR, SHE SAID, DAD, I'M

                    JOINING THE MARINE CORPS.  SHE HAD ALREADY BEEN ACCEPTED TO THE

                    COLLEGE OF HER CHOICE.  AND I SAID, REALLY?  APPARENTLY, SOME RECRUITER

                    HAD MADE THE STATEMENT THAT THE MARINE CORPS WAS LOOKING FOR A FEW

                    GOOD MEN.  AND SHE TOOK THAT AS A QUITE A CHALLENGE.  SHE JOINED THE

                    MARINE CORPS AND SIGNED UP FOR HEAVY EQUIPMENT MAINTENANCE.

                    ANOTHER SURPRISE TO ME, FOR A GREAT DAUGHTER, GREAT IN SCHOOL, I WASN'T

                    SURE SHE COULD CHANGE A TIRE.

                                 BUT IN 2004, SHE VOLUNTEERED FOR A SPECIAL UNIT.  AND

                    SHE WENT TO IRAQ WITH THE MARINE CORPS' FIRST MORTUARY AFFAIRS UNIT.

                    AND THIS WAS AT A TIME WHEN THE MARINES WERE RETAKING FALLUJAH.  AND

                    WHEN SHE CAME BACK, I REACHED OUT TO HER, IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT SHE WAS

                    A MESS.  AND SHE SAID, DAD, YOU JUST WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND.  EVENTUALLY,

                    SHE GOT HER LIFE BACK TOGETHER ENOUGH TO GO TO COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND

                    WHEN SHE GRADUATED SHE WENT ON TO SUNY FREDONIA.  SHE WENT BACK

                    AFTERWARDS, AND WITH THE HELP OF A PROFESSOR, WROTE A BOOK ABOUT HER

                    EXPERIENCE.  AND AFTER SHE HAD WRITTEN THE MANUSCRIPT, SHE PUT IT ASIDE

                    FOR MONTHS, BECAUSE IT WAS TOO PAINFUL TO PROOFREAD.  EVENTUALLY, SHE

                    PUBLISHED IT, AND I GOT A COPY OF THE BOOK AND I READ IT.  AND MY

                    DAUGHTER WAS RIGHT, I DID NOT AND COULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT SHE WENT

                    THROUGH.

                                         157



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 BUT I WANT TO SHARE JUST ONE PASSAGE FROM THAT BOOK

                    THAT RELATES TO OUR FLAG.  AND HER JOB IN IRAQ WAS TO PROCESS ALL THE

                    FALLEN SOLDIERS.  AND WHEN THEY WERE DONE INVENTORYING EVERYTHING,

                    DOING ALL THE RECORDKEEPING, THIS IS WHAT SHE WROTE, "WE WOULD THEN

                    PUT THE REMAINS IN A CLEAN BOX, IN A CLEAN BODY BAG AND PUT THE BAG IN

                    A METAL BOX THAT WE CALLED AN 'ALUMINUM TRANSFER CASE,' SIMILAR TO A

                    COFFIN.  WE THEN PLACED THE CASE IN A REEFER WHERE IT STAYED COOL AND

                    WHEN IT WAS TIME TO TAKE..." THE FLIGHT -- "TAKE IT TO THE FLIGHT DECK TO GO

                    HOME, WE WOULD DRAPE AN AMERICAN FLAG OVER THAT BOX AND CARRY OUT A

                    PROCESSIONAL, A SEPARATE ONE FOR EACH SET OF REMAINS.  FOUR OF US, ONE AT

                    EACH CORNER OF THE CASE, WOULD WALK IT THROUGH TWO ROWS OF AIR FORCE

                    PERSONNEL WHO WERE THERE TO DO THE FLYING.  THEY WOULD ALL SALUTE THE

                    REMAINS AS WE WALKED THROUGH.  THEY WOULD SALUTE AS IF THEY WERE

                    SALUTING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AS IF THEY WERE SALUTING

                    THEIR OWN FALLEN FAMILY MEMBERS, RAMROD STRAIGHT BACKS, THEIR ARMS AT

                    A 45-DEGREE ANGLE.  THERE WAS SUCH A STRONG EMOTION CONTAINED IN THAT

                    SALUTE."

                                 I DIDN'T RUN FOR OFFICE BECAUSE I THOUGHT NEW YORK

                    STATE WAS PERFECT, OR THAT THE UNITED STATES WAS PERFECT.  I RAN FOR

                    OFFICE BECAUSE I HOPED THAT MY SERVICE IN SOME WAY WOULD MAKE IT

                    BETTER.  BUT WHEN I SEE THAT FLAG, IT REMINDS ME OF THE MEN AND WOMEN

                    WHO PUT THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE OUR COUNTRY GREATER.

                    ALL OF US ARE HERE WITH THE HOPES THAT OUR INPUT WILL MAKE THIS GREAT

                    STATE EVEN GREATER, AND THIS GREAT COUNTRY EACH MORE GREAT.  BUT WE

                    NEED TO REMEMBER THAT THE FLAG WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS BOUGHT AT AN

                                         158



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    INCREDIBLE PRICE BY OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WHO PUT EVERYTHING ON

                    THE LINE TO GIVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO CONTRIBUTE IN THE FUTURE.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RAMOS.

                                 MR. RAMOS:  MR. SPEAKER, I SALUTE THIS FLAG.  I

                    COMMEND THIS FLAG.  I LOVE THIS FLAG AND I SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION.  BUT I

                    TRULY FEEL THAT WHAT I SEE IS WHAT THIS FLAG IS, NOT EVERYBODY SEES IN THE

                    SAME WAY.  WHAT I FEEL THE PRINCIPLES OF THIS FLAG ARE, ARE NOT SEEN THE

                    SAME, AND THAT'S APPARENT IN -- IN THIS DISCUSSION THAT WE HEAR TODAY.

                    WHILE I LOOK AT THIS FLAG AND I SEE A FLAG THAT, TO ME, REPRESENTS WE

                    WELCOME YOUR IMMIGRANTS WITH OPEN ARMS, WE WELCOME YOUR POOR.

                    OTHER PEOPLE WILL SEE THIS FLAG AND SAY, NO, WE ONLY WELCOME PEOPLE

                    WITH PH.D.S.  AND WE OPENLY WELCOME PEOPLE FROM NORWAY AND

                    ANGLO COUNTRIES, AND NOT FROM HAITI.  OTHER PEOPLE THINK THAT WHEN

                    THEY SEE THIS FLAG.

                                 WHEN I LOOK AT THIS FLAG, I LOOK AT A FLAG THAT'S

                    HUMANE, AND I BELIEVE ITS PRINCIPLES ARE SOMETHING HUMANE, WHILE

                    OTHERS SEE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH RIPPING A CHILD AWAY FROM A

                    MOTHER WHO'S BREASTFEEDING IN THE IMMIGRATION -- IN AN IMMIGRATION

                    JAIL.  THIS FLAG HAS CERTAIN PRINCIPLES, REPRESENTS CERTAIN THINGS.  BUT

                    MEN HAVE HISTORICALLY TAKEN THE PRINCIPLES OF THAT FLAG AND USURPED IT

                    INTO SOMETHING ELSE, FROM THE FOUNDING OF THIS COUNTRY.  I BELIEVE IN

                    THIS FLAG.  I BELIEVE IN WHAT THIS FLAG IS TODAY.  IT WASN'T ALWAYS THE FLAG

                    THAT IT IS TODAY BECAUSE WHEN IT WAS FIRST SEWN, IT FLEW OVER PEOPLE WHO

                    WERE IMPRISONED AND WHO WERE IN SLAVERY.  IT FLEW OVER WOMEN WHO

                                         159



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WERE NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE AND WERE TREATED AS PROPERTY.  AND IT FLEW

                    OVER MANY WHO WERE -- WHO DID NOT HAVE THAT SAME EQUAL RIGHTS.  IT

                    FLEW OVER FOUNDING FATHERS WHO OWNED OTHER HUMAN BEINGS,

                    INCLUDING GEORGE WASHINGTON, WHO HAD SLAVES ESCAPE FROM HIM.

                    WHAT KIND OF CONDITIONS WERE THEY LIVING IN?  THOMAS JEFFERSON, WHO

                    ACTUALLY RAPED SLAVES.

                                 AND FOR SOMEBODY TO STAND UP HERE AND SAY, YOU

                    KNOW, I LOVE THIS FLAG, AND SOMEBODY WHO SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT THIS

                    HISTORY IS DISRESPECTING THE MANY MEN AND WOMEN WHO DIED IN WARS, I

                    THINK THEIR IDEA IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT MY IDEA IS.  BECAUSE THE

                    MEN AND WOMEN WHO -- WHO DIED IN THE WAR SINCE THE INCEPTION OF THIS

                    COUNTRY, INCLUDED PEOPLE OF COLOR.  THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR THAT

                    CREATED THIS COUNTRY HAD BLACK MEN FIGHTING IN IT, WHO AT THE END WERE

                    NOT GIVEN -- THEY WERE NOT GIVEN FREEDOM.  SLAVERY CONTINUED.  SAME

                    THING IN THE CIVIL WAR.  PEOPLE OF COLOR FOUGHT IN THAT WAR, IN THE

                    SPANISH AMERICAN WAR, IN WORLD WAR I, WORLD WAR II, BLACKS AND

                    HISPANICS FOUGHT IN THAT WAR SIDE BY SIDE WITH THOSE VETERANS THAT YOU

                    SAY WE'RE DISRESPECTING BY BRINGING UP SOME -- SOME STAINS IN OUR

                    HISTORY.  THEY FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY, BUT THEY COULDN'T USE THE SAME

                    BATHROOM THAT THEIR COLLEAGUES COULD USE.  AND THEY DIED FOR THIS

                    COUNTRY, AS WELL.  THAT'S WHAT I SEE.  THAT'S WHAT I SEE WHEN I SEE

                    SACRIFICING WHEN I SEE OUR SOLDIERS.  AND I ALSO SEE MY RIGHT TO GET UP

                    HERE AND TALK ABOUT THAT SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A MORE PERFECT UNION, SO

                    THAT WE DON'T REPEAT THOSE MISTAKES, SO THAT WE REMIND OURSELVES THAT

                    WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FLAG, WE DON'T SEE NEO-NAZIS AND KKK AS GOOD

                                         160



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    PEOPLE, THE SAME AS PEOPLE WHO ARE PROTESTING AGAINST WHAT THOSE

                    INSTITUTIONS STAND FOR.

                                 WE LIVE IN TWO DIFFERENT WORLDS.  I STOOD UP TODAY, AS

                    EVERYBODY ELSE DID, AND PLEDGED ALLEGIANCE TO THIS FLAG, THIS FLAG THAT I

                    LOVE SO MUCH.  BUT IT IS WITH MUCH PRIDE THAT WE ASK THIS FLAG AND ITS

                    CITIZENS TO LIVE UP TO ITS IDEALS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. JOHNS.

                                 MR. JOHNS:  YEAH, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I RISE

                    TODAY TO ADD MY VOICE TO THIS RESOLUTION, THANKS TO THE SPONSOR OF THE

                    RESOLUTION.  YOU KNOW, THE FLAG MEANS A LOT TO ME.  YOU CAN SEE I'M

                    WEARING A FLAG TIE TODAY.  AND I ALWAYS REMEMBER JUNE 14TH BECAUSE IT

                    WAS MY MOTHER'S BIRTHDAY, SO... SHE'D BE 104 TODAY.  AND... SO I -- I

                    ALWAYS KNEW THE FLAG WAS -- YOU KNOW, FLAG DAY WAS COMING AND I

                    MADE SURE I BROUGHT THE TIES IN ADVANCE.

                                 BUT GOING BACK, MY FATHER WAS A WORLD WAR II

                    VETERAN.  AND HE WAS INJURED, HE WAS BLOWN UP IN THE BATTLE OF THE

                    BULGE.  HE JOINED THE U.S. ARMY IN THE 1930S DURING THE DEPRESSION,

                    BECAME A SERGEANT, PROBABLY COULD HAVE STAYED HERE AND TRAINED THE

                    TROOPS, BUT HE VOLUNTEERED, HE WENT TO THE EUROPEAN THEATER OF

                    OPERATION, STORMED THE BEACHES AT NORMANDY, MADE IT ALL THE WAY

                    THROUGH UNTIL JANUARY OF '45 WITH THE BATTLE OF THE BULGE, WHICH WAS

                    "THE" BIGGEST, THE MOST DEADLY.  HE WAS BLOWN UP, HE GOT A LOT OF

                    SHRAPNEL IN HIS LEGS, SO GANGRENE SET IN THEN AND BACK IN THOSE DAYS,

                    YOU COULDN'T MEDIVAC PEOPLE OUT.  SO WHEN THEY FINALLY GOT HIM OUT

                    AND ON A PLANE BACK TO ENGLAND, IT TURNED OUT IT WAS A GERMAN REFUGEE

                                         161



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    DOCTOR THAT HAD TO AMPUTATE ONE LEG. AND THE OTHER LEG WAS -- HE WAS --

                    IT WAS KIND OF MANGLED UP, AS WELL.

                                 SO, HE SPENT A COUPLE OF YEARS AT WALTER REED ARMY

                    HOSPITAL DOWN IN WASHINGTON, D.C.  THAT'S WHERE MY MOM AND DAD

                    MET.  AND MY MOTHER WOULD TELL US STORIES, NOT ONLY ABOUT WHAT MY

                    FATHER WENT THROUGH, BUT ABOUT SOME OF THE DARK TIMES THAT SOME OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES HAVE TALKED ABOUT, ABOUT HOW, NO MATTER WHAT WENT WRONG

                    DOWN IN WASHINGTON BACK IN THE LATE '40S, THEY WOULD ALWAYS FIND A

                    BLACK MAN AND PIN THE BLAME ON HIM SO EVERYBODY COULD FEEL GOOD,

                    AND MAYBE A RAPIST OR A MURDERER WOULD BE TAKEN OFF THE STREET.

                                 AND IN THE LATE '50S, MY MOTHER TOOK MY BROTHER AND

                    I, AND WE WERE LITTLE KIDS, AND MY BROTHER WAS EVEN YOUNGER THAN ME,

                    SHE TOOK US DOWN NOT ONLY GETTYSBURG, BUT DOWN INTO VIRGINIA, BACK IN

                    THE DAYS WHEN WE SAW DRINKING FOUNTAINS THAT SAID, "WHITES ONLY".

                    BATHROOMS THAT SAID, "WHITES ONLY".  MY MOTHER SAID, LOOK AT THIS.

                    WE DIDN'T KNOW.  TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, THE TOWN WE WERE FROM, THERE

                    WERE NO BLACK PEOPLE.  BUT, SHE POINTED THIS OUT AND SAID, THIS IS GOING

                    TO BE GONE SOMEDAY, YOU NEED TO SEE THIS.  AND SO I KNOW OF THE DARK

                    HISTORY.  I LEARNED IT AT A YOUNG AGE.

                                 BUT OUR COUNTRY'S GOT A LOT OF GOOD HISTORY, AS WELL.

                    WE FREED EUROPE FROM THE NAZI AGGRESSION.  FREED THE FAR EAST FROM

                    JAPAN, JAPANESE AGGRESSION.  AND I CAN TELL YOU I'M PROUD OF THIS

                    COUNTRY, WITH ALL ITS FAULTS.  I'M PROUD OF ALL MY FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES

                    HERE.  YOU KNOW THAT... GET A LITTLE -- GET A LITTLE CHOKED UP ABOUT THIS,

                    BUT THE COUNTRY THAT WE LIVE IN RIGHT NOW, AS BAD AS IT IS, WE HAVE

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT WANT TO COME TO AMERICA AND MILLIONS MORE

                    THAT SNEAK INTO THIS COUNTRY.  THIS COUNTRY MAY BE IS BAD, WE HAVE A LOT

                    OF FAULTS, I THINK WE'RE GETTING BETTER.  BUT PEOPLE STILL WANT TO COME

                    HERE.  WE ARE STILL, I THINK, THE "SHINING CITY ON THE HILLTOP" THAT RONALD

                    REAGAN USED TO TALK ABOUT.  AND HOPEFULLY, WE WILL GET BETTER.

                                 BUT I DO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS RESOLUTION IS A

                    GREAT THING.  AS I SAY, I WORE THE FLAG IN HONOR OF THE DAY.  AND THANK

                    YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK ON THIS.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 MR. LENTOL.

                                 MR. LENTOL:  I KNOW THAT I'M THE LAST SPEAKER, MR.

                    SPEAKER, SO I'LL BE VERY BRIEF.  I -- I WASN'T GOING TO SPEAK AND I DIDN'T

                    WANT TO STAY BECAUSE I HAVE TO BE HOME, BUT THIS IS AN IMPORTANT

                    RESOLUTION THAT WE ALL HAVE TO ADDRESS.  AND IT ISN'T BLACK AND WHITE,

                    BUT IT IS BLACK AND WHITE, ISN'T IT?

                                 AND SO, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE REALLY HAVE

                    TO THINK ABOUT HARD.  AND I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT AS I'VE HEARD ALL OF THE

                    SPEAKERS ADDRESS THE ISSUE.  AND I JUST WANT TO SAY ONE THING:  I HAVE

                    TWO FLAGS UP HERE (INDICATING).  I HAVE THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF

                    AMERICA, AND I HAVE A GAY PRIDE FLAG.  AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I'M

                    PROUD OF BOTH OF THEM BEING ON MY DESK.  AND I'M NOT TRYING TO USE

                    ANY PROPS EITHER, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 SO, MY GRANDFATHER WAS ELECTED TO THIS BODY AS AN

                    IMMIGRANT WHO CAME FROM ITALY IN THE 1800S AND BECAME A MEMBER OF

                    THE ASSEMBLY IN 1919, 100 YEARS AGO.  AND HE CLEANED SPITTOONS IN A

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    BARBER SHOP AS HE GREW UP, WITH NO EDUCATION WHATSOEVER, AND BEGAN

                    TO LEARN ENGLISH, AS A PERSON WHO SPOKE ONLY ITALIAN WHEN HE GOT HERE.

                    AND HE BECAME A MEMBER OF THE ASSEMBLY BY EDUCATING HIMSELF

                    WITHOUT ANY FORMAL EDUCATION BECAUSE HE LIVED IN A COUNTRY THAT

                    ALLOWED HIM TO DO IT AT THE TIME.  AND I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT IT WASN'T --

                    THERE WASN'T PERSECUTION OF ITALIANS IN THAT ERA, BECAUSE THERE WAS.

                    AND HE WAS PERSECUTED, JUST LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO CAME FROM

                    DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.  BUT HE HAD ONE ADVANTAGE OVER

                    SOMEBODY WITH DARK SKIN, BECAUSE HE WAS LIGHT SKINNED AND WAS ABLE

                    TO KIND OF ESCAPE THE COLOR LINE.

                                 SO, WHEN I THINK OF THIS FLAG, I THINK PROUDLY OF THIS

                    FLAG AND I SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION AND I'M PROUD THAT A

                    HAITIAN-AMERICAN IS THE SPONSOR OF THIS RESOLUTION, BECAUSE SHE

                    UNDERSTANDS THE VALUE OF THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, LIKE

                    I DO.

                                 AND I ALSO LOOK AT THE OTHER FLAG AND UNDERSTAND THAT I

                    WAS IN AN OPPONENT OF GAY RIGHTS AT ONE TIME IN MY LIFE, THAT I WAS AN

                    OPPONENT OF GAY MARRIAGE.  BUT MY HEAD WAS TURNED AROUND BECAUSE I

                    RECOGNIZED THAT IF I WANTED TO STAND FOR EQUAL RIGHTS, I HAD TO STAND FOR

                    EQUAL RIGHTS FOR EVERYONE.  AND I NO LONGER AM ASHAMED OF THIS FLAG

                    SHOWING THAT I -- THAT I SUPPORT GAY RIGHTS, JUST AS I AM NO LONGER

                    ASHAMED OF THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  AND I

                    UNDERSTAND THE SHORTCOMINGS THAT WE HAVE, AND WE WILL OVERCOME

                    THOSE SHORTCOMINGS IN TIME.  AND IT WON'T BE TOO LATE, BECAUSE I BELIEVE

                    IN OUR COUNTRY.  I BELIEVE IN THE VALUES THAT WERE PUT FORWARD, AND

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    WE'RE LIVING THROUGH A PERIOD THAT MAKES IT HARD, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    MAYBE STAND ERECT AND PROUD OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BECAUSE

                    OF WHAT WE BELIEVE -- SOME US BELIEVE IT HAS GONE ASTRAY.

                                 BUT WE WILL FIND OUR WAY BACK AND WE WILL, ONCE

                    AGAIN, BE PROUD OF THIS FLAG.  AND I AM ALWAYS GOING TO BE PROUD OF

                    THIS FLAG FOREVER, IN SPITE OF ITS SHORTCOMINGS, BECAUSE AFTER ALL, I AM AN

                    AMERICAN, AND ALL OF US IN THIS CHAMBER ARE AMERICANS.  AND I SUBMIT

                    THAT WE SHOULD STAND PROUDLY AND ALWAYS SALUTE THE FLAG OF THE UNITED

                    STATES OF AMERICA.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BARNWELL.

                                 MR. BARNWELL:  THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO

                    SPEAK.  I ALSO WASN'T TO GOING TO SPEAK, I KNOW EVERYONE WANTS TO GET

                    HOME.  THIS COUNTRY HAS A LOT OF SINS TO -- TO ATONE FOR.  AND EVERYONE

                    HAS SAID A -- A GREAT DEAL ON -- ON ALL SIDES, AND THEY'RE ALL RIGHT.  BUT

                    THE ONE THING I WILL SAY IS IS THAT WHAT IT MEANS TO THE PEOPLE IS ALL

                    DIFFERENT, BUT WHEN SOMEONE -- WHEN A -- WHEN A GRIEVING WIDOW OR A

                    GRIEVING PARENT DIES -- I'M SORRY.  WHEN -- WHEN THE SOLDIERS DIES, WHAT

                    DOES THE PARENT GET?  WHAT DOES THE WIFE GET?  WHAT DOES THE HUSBAND

                    GET?  THEY GET THE FLAG.  THAT'S THE LAST THING SOME PEOPLE HAVE OF -- OF

                    THEIR -- OF THEIR CHILD OR THEIR -- THEIR BROTHER OR THEIR SISTER.

                                 SO, YOU KNOW, IT MEANS A LOT TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT

                    PEOPLE, AND -- BUT TO SOME PEOPLE, IT'S ALL THEY HAVE LEFT.  AND I THINK

                    THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD REMEMBER WHEN THEY THINK ABOUT THE FLAG.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    ADOPTED.

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING

                    AND RESOLUTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY, MR.

                    MORELLE.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MS. SOLAGES, PAGE 93, CALENDAR NO.

                    876, BILL A-8788-A, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MS. JOYNER, PAGE 94, CALENDAR NO.

                    902, BILL NO. 1936, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON BEHALF OF MRS. BARRETT, BILL NO. 2809-A,

                    ASSEMBLY BILL RECALLED FROM THE SENATE.  THE CLERK WILL READ THE TITLE

                    OF THE BILL.

                                 THE CLERK:  AN ACT TO REQUIRE THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THERE IS A MOTION TO

                    RECONSIDER THE VOTE BY WHICH THE BILL PASSED THE HOUSE.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE. )

                                 THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.)

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE, THE AMENDMENTS ARE

                    RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON BEHALF OF MS. ROSENTHAL, BILL NO. 8393-A,

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    ASSEMBLY BILL RECALLED FROM THE SENATE.  THE CLERK WILL READ THE TITLE

                    OF THE BILL.

                                 THE CLERK:  AN ACT TO THE AMEND ELECTION LAW.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THERE IS A MOTION TO

                    RECONSIDER THE VOTE BY WHICH THE BILL PASSED THE HOUSE.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS THE BEFORE THE HOUSE, THE AMENDMENTS

                    RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON BEHALF OF MR. VANEL, BILL NO. 8783-A, ASSEMBLY

                    BILL RECALLED FROM THE SENATE.  THE CLERK WILL READ THE TITLE OF THE BILL.

                                 THE CLERK:  AN ACT TO ESTABLISH THE DIGITAL

                    CURRENCY TASK FORCE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THERE IS A MOTION TO

                    RECONSIDER THE VOTE BY WHICH THE BILL PASSED THE HOUSE.  THE CLERK

                    WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE AND THE AMENDMENTS ARE

                    RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON BEHALF OF MS. PELLEGRINO, BILL NO. 10157,

                    ASSEMBLY BILL RECALLED FROM THE SENATE.  THE CLERK WILL READ THE TITLE

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                    OF THE BILL.

                                 THE CLERK:  AN ACT TO AMEND THE BANKING LAW.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THERE IS A MOTION TO

                    RECONSIDER THE VOTE BY WHICH THE BILL PASSED THE HOUSE.  THE CLERK

                    WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL THE BEFORE THE HOUSE AND THE AMENDMENTS

                    ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON BEHALF OF MS. LUPARDO, BILL NO. 10774, ASSEMBLY

                    BILL RECALLED FROM THE SENATE.  THE CLERK WILL READ THE TITLE OF THE BILL.

                                 THE CLERK:  AN ACT CREATING THE RADON TASK

                    FORCE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THERE IS A MOTION TO

                    RECONSIDER THE VOTE BY THE BILL PASSED THE HOUSE.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE, THE AMENDMENTS ARE

                    RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 WE HAVE NUMEROUS OTHER RESOLUTIONS, WHICH WE WILL

                    TAKE UP IN ONE VOTE.  ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY

                    SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

                                         168



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                     JUNE 14, 2018

                                 (WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 1377-1379

                    WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

                                 MR. MORELLE.

                                 MR. MORELLE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I NOW

                    MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL FRIDAY, JUNE 15TH,

                    TOMORROW IS A LEGISLATIVE DAY, AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT 1:00 P.M. ON

                    MONDAY, 1:00 P.M., JUNE 18TH.  MONDAY WILL BE A SESSION DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

                    ADJOURNED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 4:38 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD

                    ADJOURNED UNTIL FRIDAY, JUNE 15TH, FRIDAY BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY, AND

                    TO RECONVENE ON MONDAY, JUNE 18TH AT 1:00 P.M., MONDAY BEING A

                    SESSION DAY.)

























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