THURSDAY, JUNE 13, 2019                                                                       10:52 A.M.



                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

                    SILENCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

                                 VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

                    OF ALLEGIANCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

                    MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

                                 A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY, JUNE 12TH.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO

                                          1



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY, JUNE

                    THE 12TH AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WITHOUT OBJECTION,

                    SO ORDERED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IT IS MY

                    PLEASURE TO SHARE WITH COLLEAGUES, STAFF AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE

                    CHAMBERS [SIC] A QUOTE TODAY THAT COMES FROM A VERY RECENT HIGH

                    SCHOOL GRADUATION OF SASHA OBAMA.  THE KEYNOTE ADDRESS WAS GIVEN

                    BY SHEILA JOHNSON CRUMP [SIC] WHO WAS ALSO THE PRESIDENT AND

                    FOUNDER OF BET, AND THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF SALAMANDER HOTELS AND

                    RESORTS.  THE QUOTE, MR. SPEAKER, IS THAT, "LIFE HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT

                    YOU OR ABOUT ME.  LIFE AND ALL THAT MATTERS WITHIN IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN

                    ABOUT US."  AGAIN, MR. SPEAKER, THAT IS A QUOTE FROM SHEILA JOHNSON

                    DURING A COMMENCEMENT ADDRESS JUST A FEW DAYS AGO.  IT IS APPROPRIATE

                    FOR US IN OUR CHAMBERS [SIC] BECAUSE IT IS ALL ABOUT US, AND AT THE END

                    OF THE DAY WE'VE DONE SOME REALLY GREAT WORK OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF

                    WEEKS.  WE'VE GOT A LOT OF GREAT WORK TO DO TODAY.  SO I WANT TO THANK

                    COLLEAGUES FOR THEIR COOPERATION ON YESTERDAY, AND TO SUGGEST TO YOU ALL

                    THAT WE HAVE ANOTHER VERY BUSY DAY.  AND SO WE WILL BE ASKING FOR

                    YOUR COOPERATION, AND ADVISING YOU THAT ON YOUR DESK IS A MAIN

                    CALENDAR AND A DEBATE LIST.  AND AFTER THERE ARE ANY INTRODUCTIONS

                    AND/OR HOUSEKEEPING, MR. SPEAKER, WE WILL CONTINUE TO CONSENT FROM

                    THE MAIN CALENDAR BEGINNING WITH RULES REPORT NO. 103 ON PAGE 18.

                    WE WILL ALSO WORK OFF A CONSENT LIST AND A DEBATE LIST.  WE WILL CALL THE

                                          2



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    HEALTH COMMITTEE AND THE RULES COMMITTEE.  THEY WILL MEET OFF THE

                    FLOOR.  THESE MEETINGS WILL PRODUCE AN A-CALENDAR WHICH WE WILL TAKE

                    UP TODAY.  MEMBERS SHOULD ALSO BE AWARE THAT COMMITTEES WILL BE --

                    SHOULD BE READY TO MEET FOR HOUSING, CODES, WAYS AND MEANS AND

                    RULES FOR A SECOND TIME TODAY.  THESE COMMITTEES WILL PRODUCE A

                    CALENDAR THAT WE'LL BE TAKING UP FIRST THING TOMORROW MORNING.  AND FOR

                    OUR MAJORITY COLLEAGUES, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT THERE WILL BE A NEED FOR

                    A DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE AT THE CONCLUSION OF SESSION TODAY.  AND WE

                    ARE ALREADY KIND OF KNOW THAT THE MINORITY WILL ALSO NEED TO BREAK FOR

                    A CONFERENCE AS WELL, MR. SPEAKER, AT SOME POINT.

                                 SO, THAT IS A GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE GOING

                    TODAY.  IF THERE ARE INTRODUCTIONS AND HOUSEKEEPING, IT WOULD BE A

                    PERFECT TIME TO DO THAT NOW.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES,

                    FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS YEAR WE HAVE NEITHER INTRODUCTIONS NOR

                    HOUSEKEEPING.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 AFTER YESTERDAY'S MARATHON INTRODUCTIONS, I'M MORE

                    HAPPY THAN YOU ARE.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 552, MS.

                    WILLIAMS.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO DECLARE JUNE 2019, AS NORTH AMERICAN

                                          3



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    HURRICANE AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AT THE START OF

                    THE ATLANTIC HURRICANE SEASON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 553, MS.

                    JEAN-PIERRE.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 6, 2019, AS GOT CHECKED?  DAY

                    IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 554, MR.

                    BENEDETTO.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 13-19, 2019, AS MALE BREAST

                    CANCER AWARENESS WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 555, MR.

                    ZEBROWSKI.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM AUGUST 2019, AS INDIAN-AMERICAN

                                          4



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    HERITAGE MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 556, MR.

                    MCDONALD.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 13, 2019, AS METASTATIC

                    BREAST CANCER AWARENESS DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 557, MS.

                    MALLIOTAKIS.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 9, 2019, AS PANDAS/PANS

                    (PEDIATRIC ACUTE-ONSET NEUROPSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS) AWARENESS DAY IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 558, MS.

                    MILLER.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 2019, AS COCKAYNE SYNDROME

                                          5



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE -- IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE CAN

                    NOW GO TO PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 103.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02785-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 103, GOTTFRIED, ABINANTI, PHEFFER AMATO, SOLAGES, JAFFEE,

                    GARBARINO, RAIA, STECK, SEAWRIGHT, ASHBY, BYRNE, MCDONALD.  AN ACT

                    TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO SYNCHRONIZATION OF

                    MULTIPLE PRESCRIPTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  COLLEAGUES, THIS IS OUR

                    FIRST OF TODAY.  IF YOU ARE IN AND AROUND THE CHAMBERS [SIC], PLEASE CAST

                    YOUR VOTE.  THIS IS THE FIRST OF TODAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  FIRST VOTE OF THE DAY,

                    MEMBERS.  PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE.  PLEASE COME TO THE CHAMBERS [SIC] IF

                                          6



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    YOU ARE NOT ALREADY HERE, IN ORDER TO CAST YOUR VOTE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02787, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 104, GOTTFRIED, JAFFEE, ABINANTI, SAYEGH.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    SOCIAL SERVICES LAW AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PAYMENTS FOR BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SERVICES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A -- ON A -- NO,

                    EXCUSE ME.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MEMBERS, THERE WAS NO HOME RULE ON THAT PARTICULAR

                    BILL.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02853, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 105, MCDONALD.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    AUTHORIZING THE CITY OF TROY TO IMPOSE HOTEL AND MOTEL TAXES; AND

                    PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                                          7



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02858-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 106, MCDONALD, BICHOTTE, BRABENEC, COOK, CROUCH,

                    GOTTFRIED, GUNTHER, JAFFEE, RIVERA, STIRPE, PICHARDO, ENGLEBRIGHT,

                    DIPIETRO, LUPARDO, SANTABARBARA, WOERNER, THIELE, CUSICK, BYRNE,

                    MORINELLO, BLAKE, VANEL, FAHY, FRIEND, ROZIC, BENEDETTO, RICHARDSON,

                    MONTESANO, JOYNER, NORRIS, GLICK, WILLIAMS, ABINANTI, BRAUNSTEIN,

                    GALEF, JONES, D'URSO, LENTOL, CYMBROWITZ, ORTIZ, BARRON, SOLAGES,

                    LAWRENCE, MCDONOUGH, MOSLEY, WALLACE, LIFTON, O'DONNELL,

                    D. ROSENTHAL, ARROYO, PALUMBO, GIGLIO, BLANKENBUSH, GARBARINO,

                    B. MILLER, CAHILL, DAVILA, COLTON, GOODELL, STERN, RAIA, WEIGHT,

                    TAYLOR, SAYEGH, BYRNES, SMULLEN, RA, GRIFFIN, BUTTENSCHON, RAYNOR,

                    STECK, DESTEFANO, LIPETRI, SMITH, MIKULIN, JACOBSON, REYES.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    INCREASING THE RETIREE EARNINGS CAP.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    MCDONALD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                          8



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU

                    FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERRUPT OUR PROCEEDINGS TO -- FOR THE

                    INTRODUCTION ON BEHALF OF MR. ZEBROWSKI AND MS. JAFFEE, THE LEADERS OF

                    THE INDIAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY OF ROCKLAND COUNTY.  THEY'RE HERE

                    WITH US IN THE CHAMBERS [SIC], MR. SPEAKER.  THERE'S THE INDIA CULTURAL

                    SOCIETY OF ROCKLAND, GEEBON JODI (PHONETIC) SENIOR CITIZENS

                    ASSOCIATION, HUDSON VALLEY MALAYALEE ASSOCIATION, AND THE FIRST

                    FEMALE ELECTED INDIAN-AMERICAN COUNTY LEGISLATOR IN ROCKLAND

                    COUNTY, ANEY PAUL.

                                 IF YOU WOULD PLEASE GIVE THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR

                    AND WELCOME THEM TO OUR CHAMBERS [SIC], MR. SPEAKER, ON BEHALF OF

                    MR. ZEBROWSKI AND MS. JAFFEE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. ZEBROWSKI, MS. JAFFEE, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE

                    WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE EXTEND TO

                    YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S

                    HOUSE.  YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME HERE.  CERTAINLY, WE ARE SO PLEASED TO

                    HAVE YOU JOIN US IN THESE LAST DAYS OF SESSION.  WE HOPE THAT YOUR TRIP

                    HERE HAS BEEN WELL, AND THAT YOU WILL ENJOY THE PROCEEDINGS.  THANK

                    YOU SO VERY MUCH.  AND TO THE COLLEAGUE WHO ALSO SERVES IN

                    GOVERNMENT, CONGRATULATIONS.  THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR

                    SERVICE.

                                          9



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02957-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 107, RICHARDSON, THIELE, BICHOTTE, EPSTEIN, D'URSO,

                    SAYEGH, ORTIZ, JAFFEE, GRIFFIN, BARRON, WRIGHT, RAMOS.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING INFORMATION ON

                    POSSIBLE COMPLICATIONS FROM PREGNANCY; AND IN RELATION TO SCREENINGS

                    AND REFERRALS FOR SERIOUS THREATS TO LIFE AFTER PREGNANCY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03009, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 108, QUART, BRAUNSTEIN, RYAN, FAHY, LAVINE, HEVESI, STECK,

                    AUBRY, PRETLOW, SEAWRIGHT, WEPRIN, RIVERA, COOK, BARCLAY, CRESPO,

                    CYMBROWITZ, ABINANTI, PHEFFER AMATO, GARBARINO, SOLAGES, RAIA,

                    GALEF, PEOPLES-STOKES, STIRPE, OTIS, CUSICK, MCDONALD.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO SYNCHRONIZATION OF MULTIPLE

                    PRESCRIPTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1,

                    2020.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         10



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE'RE

                    GOING TO INTERRUPT OUR PROCEEDINGS ONCE AGAIN TO INTRODUCE SOME

                    HONORED GUESTS THAT IN OUR CHAMBERS [SIC].  THEY ARE ABOVE YOU IN -- IN

                    -- IN THE BALCONY, MR. SPEAKER.  THEY ARE COMMEMORATING THE 75TH

                    ANNIVERSARY OF THE POLISH AMERICAN CONGRESS.  THERESA BUNK, WHO IS

                    THE NATIONAL DIRECTOR, IS FROM WATERVLIET; AND TOMASZ MROCZEK IS THE

                    NATIONAL DIRECTOR AND PRESIDENT FROM UTICA.  MR. SPEAKER, THEY HAVE

                    WITH THEM FOLKS FROM LITERALLY ALL OVER THE GREAT STATE OF NEW YORK,

                    AND THEY ARE HERE ON BEHALF OF MR. MCDONALD, MR. -- MS. BUTTENSCHON,

                    MS. FAHY, MR. SANTABARBARA, MR. STECK, MS. WALSH AND MANY OTHER

                    MEMBERS OF OUR CHAMBERS [SIC].

                                 SO WOULD YOU PLEASE, MR. -- MR. SPEAKER, GIVE THEM

                    YOUR GRACIOUS WELCOME AND ALLOW THEM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. MCDONALD, MR. -- MS. BUTTENSCHON, MS. FAHY, MR. STECK, MR.

                    SANTABARBARA, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, LET ME WELCOME THESE

                    PROUD MEMBERS OF THE POLISH-AMERICAN COMMUNITY HERE TO THE NEW

                    YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.

                    WE HOPE THAT YOU WILL ENJOY TODAY'S PROCEEDINGS, AND WE CELEBRATE YOU

                    IN CELEBRATING YOUR CULTURE.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH, WHICH -- SHARING

                    WITH US TODAY.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

                                         11



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    PLEASE CALL THE HEALTH COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM?

                    MR. GOTTFRIED WILL BE EN ROUTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HEALTH COMMITTEE,

                    SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY.  THANK YOU.

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03059, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 109, GOTTFRIED.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND THE

                    INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO UTILIZATION REVIEW OF COVERAGE OF NURSING

                    HOME CARE FOLLOWING AN INPATIENT HOSPITAL ADMISSION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03200, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 111, BYRNE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE TOWN LAW AND THE PUBLIC

                    OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION TO THE RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT FOR THE COURT

                    ATTENDANT FOR THE TOWN OF SOMERS, IN THE COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    BYRNE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         12



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03320, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 112, ZEBROWSKI, BLAKE, LUPARDO, COLTON, WALLACE, JONES,

                    RICHARDSON, WALSH, BRABENEC, NIOU, WRIGHT, REYES.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE BANKING LAW, IN RELATION TO THE BANKING DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT

                    PROGRAM; TO AMEND CHAPTER 526 OF THE LAWS OF 1998 AMENDING THE

                    BANKING LAW RELATING TO PARTICIPATION IN THE BANKING DEVELOPMENT

                    DISTRICTS PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03326-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 113, CYMBROWITZ.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC

                    BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS FOR A

                    SEVEN-DAY LICENSE TO SELL LIQUOR AT RETAIL FOR CONSUMPTION OFF THE

                    PREMISES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    CYMBROWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03402, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 114, GUNTHER, CAHILL, ZEBROWSKI, GOTTFRIED, SIMON, MOSLEY,

                    MONTESANO, M.G. MILLER, JAFFEE, COLTON, DICKENS.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO LIABILITY FOR THE PAYMENT OF FEES

                    FOR SERVICES RENDERED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF MENTAL HYGIENE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                                         13



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER STERN:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03475, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 115, DESTEFANO, MONTESANO, SALKA, LAWRENCE, D'URSO.  AN ACT TO

                    -- AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE ALIENATION OF CERTAIN PARKLANDS IN THE TOWN OF

                    BROOKHAVEN, COUNTY OF SUFFOLK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER STERN:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    DESTEFANO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER STERN:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. DESAN -- DESANO -- (INAUDIBLE) YOUR FIRST, SIR.

                    DESTEFANO.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                         14



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 CONGRATULATIONS, SIR.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, ON BEHALF

                    OF MS. PHEFFER AMATO, WHO IS STANDING THERE WITH SOME REALLY

                    HANDSOME AND BEAUTIFUL YOUNG LADIES AND YOUNG MEN WHO ARE FROM THE

                    J.H.S. 202 ROBERT H. GODDARD SCHOOL LOCATED IN OZONE PARK IN

                    QUEENS, NEW YORK.  THEY'RE WITH THEIR ASSEMBLYMEMBER, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IF YOU COULD WELCOME THEM, AS THEY HAVE TRAVELED TO OUR

                    CAPITOL.  THEY ACTUALLY WILL BE TOURING MUSEUMS WHILE THEY'RE HERE.

                    THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO THE CORNING TOWER, WHICH IS A BEAUTIFUL LOOK OF

                    ALBANY IF THEY GO ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP.  I'M SURE THEY'VE ENJOYED

                    THEMSELVES WHILE THEY'RE TOURING ALBANY.  WILL YOU WELCOME THEM TO

                    OUR CHAMBERS [SIC] AND OFFER THEM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  WE -- ON

                    BEHALF OF MS. PHEFFER AMATO, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE

                    WELCOME THESE EXTRAORDINARY STUDENTS FROM OZONE PARK HERE TO THE

                    NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU GUYS THE PRIVILEGES OF THE

                    FLOOR.  HOPE THAT YOU WILL HAVE A GREAT TIME AND LEARN MUCH AS YOU

                    HAVE COME TO ALBANY.  ALSO, THAT YOU KNOW YOU HAVE AN

                    ASSEMBLYWOMAN WHO IS SUPPORTING YOU WITH ALL HER MIGHT.  THANK

                    YOU SO VERY MUCH.  HAPPY TO HAVE YOU GUYS.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03548, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 116, DINOWITZ, GOTTFRIED, GALEF, BRAUNSTEIN, MAGNARELLI, ABINANTI,

                                         15



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    OTIS, REYES, SAYEGH, GUNTHER, EPSTEIN, D'URSO, STIRPE, ARROYO, STECK,

                    COOK, GLICK, ZEBROWSKI, FERNANDEZ.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    OBLIGATIONS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING CONTRACTEES TO WAIVE THEIR

                    RIGHTS RELATING TO THE MAKING OF CERTAIN STATEMENTS ABOUT CONTRACTORS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03628, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 117, SCHIMMINGER, RYAN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE TONAWANDA CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT TO

                    ESTABLISH AN INSURANCE RESERVE FUND.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         16



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. GOODELL FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

                                 MEMBERS, SHH.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  ON BEHALF OF ASSEMBLYMAN BLANKENBUSH, I WANT TO

                    INTRODUCE SOME DISTINGUISHED GUESTS WHO ACTUALLY RESIDE IN

                    ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY'S DISTRICT.  WE HAVE WITH US MR. BLANKENBUSH'S

                    SISTER, LILA MEEKS; AND HIS NEPHEWS, PATRICK AND JAMISON.  PATRICK IS

                    GOING INTO THE FOURTH GRADE IN THE LOUDONVILLE CHRISTIAN SCHOOL, AND

                    JAMISON IS GOING INTO SEVENTH GRADE.  AND I'VE BEEN ADVISED THAT SINCE

                    SECOND GRADE, PATRICK HAS KNOWN ALL THE PRESIDENTS, IN ORDER, AND HE

                    HAS AS ONE OF HIS BUCKET LIST CAREER OBJECTIVES BECOMING PRESIDENT.

                    AND SO WE ARE FORTUNATE HERE THAT WE CAN SAY WE KNEW HIM WHEN HE

                    GETS THERE.

                                 SO IF YOU WOULD WELCOME PATRICK, JAMISON AND THEIR

                    MOTHER, LILA, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. BLANKENBUSH, MS. FAHY, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS,

                    GENTLEMEN, LADIES, WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE

                    ASSEMBLY.  YOU ARE GIVEN THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR, AND AS FAMILY

                    YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE THAT.  WE HOPE THAT YOU WILL COME AND VISIT US

                    OFTEN.  CLEARLY, MR. BLANKENBUSH IS PLEASED TO HAVE YOU.  WE LOVE TO

                    HAVE HIM SMILE ON DAYS LIKE TODAY.  THANK YOU SO MUCH.  AND FOR THE

                    ASPIRING PRESIDENT, KEEP GOING, MY SON.  YOU NEVER KNOW.  THANK YOU

                    SO VERY MUCH.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                         17



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03937-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 119, HYNDMAN, DICKENS, ARROYO, WILLIAMS, MONTESANO,

                    RAYNOR.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    REQUIREMENTS FOR A LICENSE AS A PROFESSIONAL LAND SURVEYOR; AND

                    PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 547 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO INTERRUPT OUR PROCEEDINGS TO INTRODUCE YET

                    ANOTHER GUEST.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WAIT UNTIL THAT DOOR

                    IS CLOSED.  CAN WE KEEP THAT DOOR CLOSED THERE FOR A MINUTE?  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  TO INTRODUCE, MR.

                                         18



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    SPEAKER, ANOTHER GUEST IN OUR CHAMBER.  SHE -- ON BEHALF OF ALL OF THE

                    WESTERN NEW YORK DELEGATION, THIS IS BRIDGET O'CONNELL.  SHE IS A

                    DISTINGUISHED ATTORNEY FROM THE BUFFALO AREA, THE NEWLY-ELECTED

                    PRESIDENT OF THE ERIE COUNTY BAR ASSOCIATION, AND THE FORMER PRESIDENT

                    OF THE WOMEN'S BAR ASSOCIATION, THE WESTERN NEW YORK CHAPTER.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, PLEASE WELCOME BRIDGET O'CONNELL TO

                    OUR CHAMBERS [SIC].

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF THE WESTERN QUEENS [SIC] DELEGATION, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE

                    MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.

                    WE EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR, THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.  WE

                    HOPE THAT YOUR TENURE IN YOUR POSITION WILL BE POSITIVE AND YOU WILL

                    MOVE THE CAUSE OF JUSTICE IN THIS STATE.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

                    WELCOME.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04000, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 120, WEPRIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE

                    CITY OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO EXCLUDING MEMBERS OF THE POLICE

                    FORCE WHO USE HEARING ASSISTANCE DEVICES FROM THE DEFINITION OF

                    DISABLED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    WEPRIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         19



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04256-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 121, HEVESI, BARRON, AUBRY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL

                    SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO ANY UNEARNED INCOME OF A CHILD IN CERTAIN

                    CIRCUMSTANCES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04350-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 122, ZEBROWSKI, MCDONALD, STIRPE, WALLACE, BENEDETTO,

                    COLTON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO THE REQUIREMENT FOR POLICYHOLDERS TO PROVIDE 30 DAYS NOTICE TO

                    WITHDRAW FROM THE STATE INSURANCE FUND.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04436, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 123, ABBATE, COLTON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

                    SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO DISABILITY BENEFITS FOR FIREFIGHTERS

                    EMPLOYED BY THE DIVISION OF MILITARY AND NAVAL AFFAIRS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04454, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 124, CUSICK, L. ROSENTHAL, ENGLEBRIGHT, ABINANTI, LUPARDO, OTIS,

                                         20



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    TITUS, D'URSO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO REQUIRING NOTICE TO ADJACENT LANDOWNERS WHERE CERTAIN

                    DEVELOPMENT IS PROPOSED IN WETLANDS IN A CITY WITH A POPULATION OF ONE

                    MILLION OR MORE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN

                    INTRODUCTION.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IT'S AN HONOR TO INTRODUCE A GUEST HERE ON BEHALF OF OUR

                    COLLEAGUE, CATHY NOLAN.  WE HAVE WITH US, MR. SPEAKER, KERRY

                    KENNEDY, WHO IS HERE REPRESENTING THE ROBERT KENNEDY HUMAN RIGHTS

                    FOUNDATION.  IF YOU WOULD PLEASE WELCOME OUR HONORED GUEST TO THE

                    CHAMBERS [SIC].

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    -- WELL, YES.  I THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE BY ITSELF.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ON BEHALF OF MS. NOLAN, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE

                    MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.

                                         21



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WE EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S

                    HOUSE.  YOU ARE SO WELCOME HERE.  AND, OF COURSE, THE LEGACY OF YOUR

                    FAMILY IS OUTSTANDING.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.  WE CAN NEVER THANK

                    YOU ENOUGH.  THANK YOU.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04620, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 125, ENGLEBRIGHT, GUNTHER, JOYNER, ARROYO, DAVILA.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE TAX LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PROVIDING FOR TAXPAYER GIFTS FOR DIABETES RESEARCH AND EDUCATION AND

                    ESTABLISHING THE DIABETES RESEARCH AND EDUCATION FUND.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04666, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 126, RYAN, ORTIZ, JAFFEE, ENGLEBRIGHT, GUNTHER, BURKE, FAHY,

                    LIFTON, D'URSO, MCDONALD, NIOU, REYES, WEPRIN, GLICK, MOSLEY,

                    THIELE, COLTON, SIMON, GOTTFRIED, L. ROSENTHAL, RAMOS, GALEF,

                    EPSTEIN, STECK.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO THE PROTECTION OF CERTAIN STREAMS.

                                         22



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04844-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 127, COLTON, WALKER, ORTIZ, SEAWRIGHT, MOSLEY, BARRON,

                    RIVERA, ARROYO, D'URSO, DENDEKKER, EPSTEIN, COOK, SIMON, BLAKE,

                    GLICK, HYNDMAN, FALL, FERNANDEZ.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE SITING AND PRESENCE OF ADEQUATE

                    NUMBERS OF TRASH RECEPTACLES IN COMMERCIAL ZONES AND RECREATIONAL

                    AREAS IN CITIES WITH A POPULATION OF ONE MILLION OR MORE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04912, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 128, GARBARINO.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE UNITARIAN

                    UNIVERSALIST CONGREGATION OF THE GREAT SOUTH BAY SAYVILLE TO -- TO FILE

                    AN APPLICATION FOR A REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                         23



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IF YOU COULD PLEASE CALL THE RULES COMMITTEE TO THE

                    SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.  RULES COMMITTEE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  RULES COMMITTEE,

                    SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY.

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04915, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 129, JEAN-PIERRE, DICKENS, BARRON, JONES, GLICK, MOSLEY,

                    BUCHWALD, JAFFEE, HYNDMAN, COLTON, GALEF, MCDONOUGH, WALKER.  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO DEATH CERTIFICATES FOR

                    PERSONS WHOSE DEATH IS CAUSED BY AN OPIOID OVERDOSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    JEAN-PIERRE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  ARE THERE ANY

                                         24



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04943, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 130, L. ROSENTHAL, DENDEKKER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE MENTAL

                    HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO ANNUAL REPORTING ON INMATE SUBSTANCE

                    ABUSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04949-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 131, PEOPLES-STOKES.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR THE ELECTION OF MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF

                    EDUCATION OF THE BUFFALO CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT IN NOVEMBER; AND TO

                    REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH LAW RELATING THERETO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                                         25



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05045, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 132, DAVILA, AUBRY, GOTTFRIED, SIMON, BARRON, ARROYO, TAYLOR,

                    LAVINE, ORTIZ, CAHILL, O'DONNELL, SEAWRIGHT, PICHARDO, MOSLEY, PERRY,

                    RIVERA, JAFFEE, QUART, DICKENS, BLAKE, WALKER, WRIGHT, ROMEO.  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN RELATION TO ALLOWING A

                    COURT TO WAIVE CERTAIN SURCHARGES AND FEES; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS OF THE PENAL LAW RELATING THERETO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE BILL IS LAID

                    ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05351, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 133, CYMBROWITZ, BLAKE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PRIVATE HOUSING

                    FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE COPYING OF DOCUMENTS OF LIMITED PROFIT

                    HOUSING COMPANIES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  ON A MOTION BY

                    MR. CYMBROWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL

                    IS ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 120 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                         26



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05625-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 134, WEINSTEIN, MOSLEY, JAFFEE, ABBATE, CYMBROWITZ,

                    GALEF, ZEBROWSKI, JOYNER, ORTIZ, GLICK, DINOWITZ, CARROLL, D'URSO,

                    STECK, HYNDMAN, RICHARDSON, SEAWRIGHT, WEPRIN, CAHILL, COLTON,

                    TAYLOR.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    DIRECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES TO ESTABLISH AN INTERNET

                    WEBSITE FOR FEDERAL HOME EQUITY CONVERSION MORTGAGE PRODUCT

                    COMPARISON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 180 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05635-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 135, DENDEKKER, PAULIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    BUSINESS LAW AND THE STATE TECHNOLOGY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    NOTIFICATION OF A SECURITY BREACH.

                                         27



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    DENDEKKER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05661, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 136, ROZIC, PEOPLES-STOKES, BUCHWALD, CAHILL, COOK, DINOWITZ,

                    ENGLEBRIGHT, GALEF, GOTTFRIED, JAFFEE, VANEL, ABINANTI, GRIFFIN,

                    JACOBSON, BARRETT, D'URSO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE BOUNDARIES OF ELECTION DISTRICTS AND THE DESIGNATION OF

                    POLLING PLACES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    ROZIC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05767-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 137, PHEFFER AMATO, D'URSO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE FILLING OF BORROW

                    PITS IN JAMAICA BAY; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 288 OF THE LAWS OF 2014

                    AMENDING THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW RELATING TO THE FILLING

                    OF BORROW PITS IN JAMAICA BAY, IN RELATION TO MAKING THE PROVISIONS OF

                    SUCH CHAPTER PERMANENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                         28



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. GOODELL FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  SOME OF US MAY HAVE NOTICED THIS MORNING WHEN WE CAME IN

                    IN THE WELL, SOME INCREDIBLE MOTORCYCLES.  THEY WERE ALL CUSTOM-

                    BUILT.  NOT ONLY ARE THEY A -- A WORK OF ART, BUT THEY'RE ALSO VERY

                    FUNCTIONAL AND INCREDIBLE CUSTOM MOTORCYCLES.  JOINING US TODAY, WE

                    HAVE PAUL TEUTEL, SR. FROM ORANGE COUNTY CHOPPERS.  PAUL STARTED

                    WITH A METAL FABRICATION BUSINESS IN NEW YORK, AND THEN CREATED A TV

                    SHOW WHICH HAS EVOLVED INTO A GLOBAL PHENOMENON, SHOWING THIS

                    INCREDIBLE PROCESS OF TAKING A NORMAL MOTORCYCLE AND MAKING IT INTO AN

                    EXTRAORDINARY MOTORCYCLE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL, I'M

                    SORRY.  IF YOU WOULD SUFFER AN INTERRUPTION.

                                 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE INTRODUCTIONS ON THE

                    FLOOR.  IT WOULD BE MORE THAN POLITE FOR YOU TO HOLD YOUR COMMENTS

                    DOWN.

                                 SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  JOINING PAUL TEUTEL, ALONG WITH THE

                    SIX CHOPPERS THAT HE BROUGHT TO US TO ENJOY, ARE JOANN -- OR JOANNIE

                    KAY, WHO IS THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF THE ORANGE COUNTY

                    CHOPPERS; SANTOS LOPEZ, WHO IS THE VICE PRESIDENT OF MARKETING AND

                                         29



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    A UNITED STATES NAVY VETERAN; JASON POHL, LEAD DESIGNER; AND JOSH

                    ALLISON, LEAD FABRICATOR.

                                 IF YOU WOULD WELCOME THESE DISTINGUISHED NEW

                    YORKERS WHO ARE SHOWING THE REST OF THE WORLD OUR IMAGINATION,

                    INGENUITY AND ENGINEERING PROWESS WHEN IT COMES TO MOTORCYCLE

                    DESIGNS.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. DIPIETRO, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, SIR, WE WELCOME

                    YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY AND EXTEND TO YOU THE

                    PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.  YOU ARE ALWAYS

                    WELCOME HERE.  AND CERTAINLY, WE CONGRATULATE YOU ON THE REMARKABLE

                    VEHICLES THAT YOU HAVE BROUGHT FOR US TO SEE, AND YOUR CREATIVITY IN

                    TERMS OF PRODUCING THEM.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.  CONTINUE YOUR

                    GOOD WORK.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

                    PLEASE ADVANCE THE A-CALENDAR?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON MRS. PEOPLES-

                    STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  WE WILL GO DIRECTLY TO

                    PAGE 3, MR. SPEAKER, RULES REPORT NO. 230 BY MR. DINOWITZ.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02371-A, RULES

                                         30



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    REPORT NO. 230, DINOWITZ, MOSLEY, BURKE, MAGNARELLI, FAHY, ARROYO,

                    COOK, GLICK, JAFFEE, WALLACE, STECK, ZEBROWSKI, JACOBSON, QUART,

                    REYES, PAULIN, L. ROSENTHAL, SIMOTAS, TITUS, NIOU, DE LA ROSA.  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO EXEMPTIONS FROM

                    VACCINATION DUE TO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS; TO REPEAL SUBDIVISION 9 OF SECTION

                    2164 OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, RELATING TO EXEMPTION FROM VACCINATION

                    DUE TO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ, AN

                    EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.

                                 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE ON DEBATE.  SHH.  PLEASE

                    --

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THIS BILL WOULD --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: -- SETTLE DOWN.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THIS BILL REPEALS SUBDIVISION 9 OF

                    SECTION 2164 OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION TO

                    VACCINATION REQUIREMENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RAIA.

                                 MR. RAIA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. RAIA:  THANK YOU, JEFF.  I KNOW WE'VE BEEN AT

                                         31



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THIS A WHILE ALREADY, BUT NOW IT'S -- NOW IT'S PRIME TIME, AS THEY SAY.

                                 LET ME --

                                 (ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY BANGING GAVEL.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  I APPRECIATE ALL THAT IS

                    GOING ON IN THE CORNER, BUT IT WILL HAVE TO GO ON WITHOUT CONVERSATION.

                                 MR. RAIA:  OKAY.  SO, WE'RE LOOKING TO ELIMINATE THE

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION BUT KEEP THE MEDICAL EXEMPTION IN -- IN PLAY,

                    CORRECT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 MR. RAIA:  NOW, UNDER A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, DOES

                    A PARTICULAR SCHOOL HAVE THE ABILITY TO REJECT THAT RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I BELIEVE SO, YES.

                                 MR. RAIA:  OKAY.  UNDER THE CURRENT LAW, DOES A

                    SCHOOL HAVE THE ABILITY TO REJECT A MEDICAL EXEMPTION?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 MR. RAIA:  THAT'S ODD.  HOW -- WHY WOULD A SCHOOL

                    HAVE THE ABILITY TO REJECT A DOCTOR'S RULING?  WE HAD A BILL HERE LAST

                    WEEK IN WHICH WE ACTUALLY SAID - DEALING WITH SOCIAL SERVICES - THAT A

                    PATIENT'S CURRENT DOCTOR SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO OVERRULE A SOCIAL

                    SERVICES' DOCTOR.  SO WHY -- WHY ARE WE ALLOWING SOMEBODY WHO HAS A

                    LEGITIMATE MEDICAL EXEMPTION NOT TO EXERCISE THAT MEDICAL EXEMPTION?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, I -- I WOULDN'T USE THE WORD

                    "LEGITIMATE" NECESSARILY, ALTHOUGH I'M SURE IN MOST CASES IT IS

                    LEGITIMATE.  BUT THERE MAY BE SPECIFIC REASONS.  IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN

                    DONE PROPERLY.  BUT THERE ARE -- OF COURSE, PEOPLE COULD APPEAL TO A

                                         32



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    HIGHER AUTHORITY.

                                 MR. RAIA:  WELL, APPARENTLY NOT BECAUSE WE'RE

                    TAKING THE RELIGIOUS OUT OF THE EXEMPTION.  SO, HOW MANY STUDENTS DO

                    WE HAVE IN -- IN SCHOOLS STATEWIDE?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, I KNOW IN NEW YORK CITY

                    PUBLIC SCHOOLS THERE ARE 1.1 MILLION STUDENTS.  AND NEW YORK CITY

                    REPRESENTS LESS THAN HALF THE POPULATION OF THE STATE, SO I'M GOING TO

                    HAVE TO GUESS THAT IT'S OVER 2 MILLION STUDENTS.

                                 MR. RAIA:  OKAY.  SO, USING NEW YORK CITY AS THE

                    EXAMPLE.  I HAVE A FOIL REQUEST, SO THESE ARE REAL NUMBERS FROM NEW

                    YORK CITY EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.  IN 2017-18, THERE WERE A TOTAL OF

                    642 RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS ASKED FOR.  OF THAT NUMBER, ONLY 348 WERE

                    APPROVED, AND 294 WERE DENIED.  THAT'S A PRETTY SMALL NUMBER, BUT

                    WHAT CONCERNS ME, THAT'S THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  WHAT CONCERNS ME

                    IS THE MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS.  YOU HAD -- IN 2017-18 226 REQUESTS FOR A

                    MEDICAL EXEMPTION.  ONLY 130 OF THOSE MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS WERE

                    APPROVED, AND 96 DENIED.  THAT'S TROUBLING.  EVEN IF YOU ADDED UP ALL

                    OF THOSE EXEMPTIONS, THE RELIGIOUS AND THE MEDICAL, I THINK YOU'RE

                    LOOKING AT ABOUT .006 OF THE ENTIRE SCHOOL POPULATION.  THAT CERTAINLY

                    DOES NOT HAVE AN EFFECT ON -- ON THE HERD IMMUNITY.  THAT BEING SAID --

                    WELL, GO AHEAD.  I'LL LET YOU RESPOND TO THAT IF YOU'D LIKE.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  OKAY.  WELL, I -- I THINK THE

                    NUMBERS DON'T BEAR THAT OUT.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  EXCUSE ME.  WE

                                         33



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WOULD ASK THOSE WHO ARE IN THE GALLERY TO RESPECT THE RULES OF THE

                    HOUSE, WHICH ASK FOR NO DEMONSTRATION OR CLAPPING WHILE WE ARE IN

                    DEBATE.  WE WOULD HOPE THAT YOU WOULD HONOR THAT, PLEASE.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THE -- THE ACTUAL NUMBERS DO NOT

                    AGREE WITH THAT IN THE FOLLOWING SENSE:  THE DATA I HAVE FROM THE STATE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH INDICATES THAT IN THE SCHOOLS THAT -- IN THE SCHOOL

                    DISTRICTS THAT HAVE AN IMMUNIZATION RATE TO MMR GREATER THAN 95

                    PERCENT, THE PERCENTAGE OF STUDENTS WHO HAVE THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION

                    IS .7 PERCENT, WHICH IS A VERY LOW NUMBER.  IT'S LESS THAN 1 PERCENT.  BUT

                    AS YOU GO DOWN TO 90 TO 94 PERCENT, 80 TO 89 PERCENT AND SO ON, THE

                    RATE GOES UP.  IN OTHER WORDS, THERE'S AN INVERSE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN

                    THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE - KIDS WHO ARE IMMUNIZED AND THE PERCENTAGE

                    OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE

                    RECORDS SHOW THAT IN A SCHOOL WHERE THE IMMUNIZATION RATE -- THE

                    MMR COVERAGE RATE IS BETWEEN 50 AND 69 PERCENT, THE PERCENTAGE OF

                    KIDS WITH A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION IS 22.2 PERCENT.  AND WHAT THAT MEANS

                    IS -- IS PRETTY CLEAR.  THE MORE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS, THE LOWER THE

                    VACCINATION RATE.  BUT IT'S NOT LIKE .1 PERCENT.  IN SOME SCHOOLS IT'S OVER

                    20 PERCENT NON-VACC -- 20 PERCENT RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, AND LESS THAN

                    70 PERCENT IMMUNIZATION RATE.  WAY, WAY BELOW THE AMOUNT AND THE

                    PERCENTAGE YOU NEED TO HAVE HERD IMMUNITY.

                                 MR. RAIA:  WELL, NOT THE CASE ON LONG ISLAND.  BUT I

                    -- I'D LIKE TO SEE THE INDIVIDUAL BREAKDOWN BY SCHOOL ON THAT.

                                 THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE GOING TO BE

                                         34



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    SPEAKING ON THIS, SO THANK YOU, JEFF.

                                 ON THE RECORD, MR. -- ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. RAIA:  WE HAVE A PROBLEM OUT THERE.  OUT HERE.

                    YOU HAVE -- THE GENERAL THOUGHT IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY IS THERE

                    SHOULD BE NO EXCEPTIONS ON THIS.  UNFORTUNATELY, I'VE SEEN CASE AFTER

                    CASE AFTER CASE OF LEGITIMATE DOCTORS' FINDINGS THAT ARE OVERRULED BY

                    ANOTHER DOCTOR.  PART OF THE PROBLEM IS MOST DOCTORS OUT THERE DON'T

                    WANT TO BE IN A POSITION TO BE OVERRULED BY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

                    THEY DON'T WANT TO BE IN A POSITION TO BE EMBARRASSED BY THEIR

                    COLLEAGUES.  AND THAT'S TROUBLING.  IT'S TROUBLING WHEN I -- I TAKE A LOOK

                    AT A -- A LETTER HERE I HAVE FROM LINDENHURST SCHOOL -- SCHOOL DISTRICT -

                    WHICH IS ACTUALLY CLOSE TO MY HOME - IN WHICH YOU HAVE AN MD, PLUS A

                    WHOLE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS AFTER THEIR NAME, THAT SAYS, PLEASE BE

                    ADVISED THAT THE ABOVE PATIENT HAD A LIFE-THREATENING REACTION AFTER

                    HAVING AN IMMUN -- THE DTAP IMMUNIZATION AND SUFFERED A SEIZURE.

                    THEY INCLUDED THE NEUROLOGICAL REPORT, PLUS A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER

                    THINGS.  THE RESPONSE FROM THE SCHOOL:  DEAR PARENT AND GUARDIAN --

                    REALLY?  THEY COULDN'T EVEN GET THE PERSON'S NAME IN THERE -- WE ARE IN

                    RECEIPT OF A DETERMINATION BY OUR MEDICAL DIRECTOR -- DR. SOMETHING OR

                    OTHER -- IN CONSULTATION WITH NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH

                    DATED SUCH-AND-SUCH REGARDING YOUR REQUEST FOR YOUR CHILD TO RECEIVE

                    A MEDICAL EXEMPTION FROM THE TDAP VACCINATION REQUIREMENT SET FORTH.

                    PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT YOUR REQUEST FOR THE EXEMPTION HAS BEEN

                    DENIED.  SO NOW YOU HAVE A SCENARIO WHERE ONE DOCTOR, THE PATIENT'S

                                         35



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    DOCTOR, IS NOW BEING OVERRULED BY ANOTHER DOCTOR.  WE'RE IN A BODY

                    THAT ALWAYS HAS PRESCRIBER PREVAILS.  THE PATIENT'S DOCTOR ALWAYS WINS.

                    EXCEPT IN THIS CASE.  YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE ONE THING IF WE WE'RE JUST

                    TALKING ABOUT RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.  WE'RE NOT.  WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

                    THE IMPACT OF MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS HERE.  AND THAT IS A PROBLEM,

                    BECAUSE IT'S A PROBLEM FOR A PARENT, SOME OF WHOM ARE MEMBERS OF THIS

                    ESTEEMED BODY, WATCH THEIR CHILD HAVE A BAD REACTION AFTER A SHOT AND

                    JUST DIDN'T WANT TO GET ANYMORE SHOTS.  AND NOW THE STATE AND A SCHOOL

                    SAYS, TOO BAD.  SO NOW THAT PATIENT IS FORCED TO BE PUT IN AN UNTENABLE

                    SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE TO ROLL THE DICE AGAIN AND SAY, WELL, MY KID

                    CAN ONLY GO TO SCHOOL IF I GET THE SHOT.  I SAW WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE

                    LAST SHOT.  WHAT DO I DO?  I CAN'T IMAGINE BEING A PARENT PUT IN THAT

                    POSITION WHERE YOU -- THAT NEXT SHOT COULD POTENTIALLY FURTHER DAMAGE

                    YOUR CHILD OR POTENTIALLY KILL YOUR CHILD, ALL BECAUSE THE GENERAL RULE OF

                    THOUGHT IS EVERYONE'S GOT TO GET VACCINATED.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  AND THAT'S

                    A SCARY PLACE TO BE FOR US.  IT'S A SCARY PLACE TO BE FOR A PARENT.  A

                    NUMBER OF PARENTS -- WE HAVE 45 STATES THAT HAVE PHILOSOPHICAL AND

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.  FORTY-FIVE.  WHAT WE'RE TELLING THESE PARENTS ARE

                    MUCH LIKE WE USED TO TELL PARENTS BEFORE WE PASSED MEDICAL

                    MARIHUANA, IS MOVE TO ANOTHER STATE.  WELL, I THINK WE NEED TO ADDRESS

                    THE PROBLEM.  I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A STUDY AS TO WHY DOCTOR --

                    SOME DOCTORS ARE OVERRULING OTHER DOCTORS AS TO THEIR RATIONALE.  VERY

                    SCARY TO TELL A PARENT THAT, YOU KNOW, YOUR DOCTOR SAYS ONE THING AND

                    THE BIG BROTHER SAYS TOO BAD.

                                 SO I HOPE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU THINK ABOUT THIS.

                                         36



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    I CAN TELL YOU, THIS IS THE HARDEST DECISION THAT I AM GOING TO BE MAKING

                    IN MY 17 YEARS HERE.  THIS, AND THE DEATH PENALTY THE FIRST YEAR I WAS

                    HERE.  BECAUSE THIS MATTERS.  THIS IS ABOUT CHOICE OF PARENTS, IN MANY

                    INSTANCES WHO HAVE ALREADY SEEN THEIR CHILD HURT.  WHETHER IT WAS THE

                    SHOT, WHETHER IT WASN'T THE SHOT.  BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S -- THAT'S OPEN TO

                    -- TO DEBATE OR NOT OPEN TO DEBATE, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT.  BUT

                    I DON'T THINK PARENTS SHOULD BE PUT IN THAT SITUATION.  I THINK AT THE VERY

                    LEAST WE SHOULD BE HOLDING HEARINGS ON THIS.  I'D LIKE TO HEAR MORE FROM

                    THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS.  I'D ALSO LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE MEDICAL

                    PROFESSIONALS THAT ARE AFRAID TO SPEAK UP BECAUSE THEY ARE CHASTISED BY

                    THE OTHERS IN THE MEDICAL PROFESSION.

                                 SO AS I SIT HERE RIGHT NOW, I'M STILL NOT 100 PERCENT

                    SURE HOW I'M GOING TO VOTE.  BUT I GOT TO TELL YOU, WHEN I SEE INJUSTICES

                    LIKE THAT WHERE ONE DOCTOR IS PITTED AGAINST ANOTHER DOCTOR, IT HELPS

                    MAKE MY VOTE A LITTLE CLEARER.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A MOMENT?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ YIELDS.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  THANK YOU, JEFF.  I JUST HAVE

                    ONE QUESTION.  REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THIS BILL PASSES OR NOT, WILL THE

                                         37



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    SCHOOLS STILL -- WILL SOME SCHOOLS STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY NO TO YOUR

                    CHILD IF HE'S NOT VACCINATED?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WOULD -- WOULD A SCHOOL HAVE THE

                    ABILITY TO SAY NO TO YOUR CHILD IF THEY'RE NOT VACCINATED?

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  IF THE CHILD IS NOT VACCINATED,

                    WILL SOME SCHOOLS STILL HAVE THE ABILITY, THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN NEW

                    YORK, TO SAY, YOUR CHILD WASN'T VACCINATED, HE CAN'T COME IN.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  SO, REGARDLESS, THAT SCHOOL

                    WILL STILL HAVE THAT -- THAT ABILITY, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THIS BILL PASSES

                    OR NOT.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  A SCHOOL CAN REJECT A CHILD WHO'S

                    NOT VACCINATED UNLESS THEY HAVE AN EXEMPT -- A -- A PROPER EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  UNLESS THEY HAVE PROPER

                    EXEMPTIONS, RIGHT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  SO, THAT WOULD BE A RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION OR A MEDICAL EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  BUT THIS BILL WOULD ELIMINATE

                    THE RELIGIOUS OR THE, YOU KNOW, THE EXEMPTION?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  CURRENTLY IN NEW YORK WE HAVE -

                    LIKE I THINK EVERY STATE - MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS FROM THE VACCINATION

                    REQUIREMENT.  AND WE HAVE -- IN NEW YORK WE CALL IT A RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION.  IN OTHER STATES THEY MAY CALL IT A PERSONAL EXEMPTION OR A

                                         38



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    PHILOSOPHICAL EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  RIGHT.  RIGHT.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WE CALL IT A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION IN

                    NEW YORK, BUT DE FACTO IT IS A -- IT IS, IN REALITY, A PHILOSOPHICAL

                    OBJECTION.  BASICALLY, IF PEOPLE SAY, I DON'T WANT MY CHILD VACCINATED,

                    AND THEY SAY IT'S FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS, THEN THEY MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR

                    THIS RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  AND THAT'S WHAT HAS CONTRIBUTED, IN PART, TO A

                    VACCINATION RATE WHICH IN SOME AREAS NEED TO BE RAISED SIGNIFICANTLY IN

                    ORDER TO PROTECT ALL THE CHILDREN.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  OKAY.  BUT MY POINT IS,

                    REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THAT FAMILY OR THAT CHILD DOES NOT GET VACCINATED,

                    THE SCHOOLS IN EITHER CASE, REGARDLESS OF THIS BILL, CAN STILL DENY HIM

                    COMING IN, RIGHT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  SCHOOLS CAN REJECT THE -- A CHILD IF

                    THE PARENT DOES NOT HAVE THE CHILD VACCINATED WITHOUT AN EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  HAVE THEY BEEN -- HAVE THEY

                    BEEN DOING THAT IN THE PAST?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I -- WELL, THE POLICY MAY VARY FROM

                    SCHOOL TO SCHOOL, FROM DISTRICT TO DISTRICT.  YES, I'M SURE CHILDREN HAVE

                    BEEN REJECTED OR THE PARENTS HAVE BEEN TOLD, YOU'VE GOT TO GET YOUR

                    CHILD VACCINATED, AND I -- I WOULD THINK IN MANY -- IN MOST CASES

                    PROBABLY THE CHILD GETS VACCINATED.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  YOU MEAN THEY GET REJECTED

                    AND THE PARENTS DECIDE, WELL, I WANT HIM TO GET VACCINATED SO HE CAN

                    GET BACK TO SCHOOL.  IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

                                         39



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, I -- I THINK -- YOU KNOW, NOT

                    EVERYBODY, NOT EVERY PARENT HAS ALL THE INFORMATION THEY NEED.  I THINK

                    MOST DO.  I THINK MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT IN THIS 21ST CENTURY,

                    VACCINATIONS ARE IMPORTANT.  THEY'VE BEEN A MIRACLE.  MILLIONS OF LIVES

                    HAVE BEEN SAVED.  WE'VE ERADICATED SMALLPOX.  YOU DON'T SEE PEOPLE

                    WITH POLIO ANYMORE.  AND WE THOUGHT THAT MEASLES WAS ELIMINATED, BUT

                    IT WASN'T ELIMINATED, AS PROVEN BY THE FACT THAT AS VACCINATION RATES MAY

                    NOT HAVE BEEN AS HIGH AS IT SHOULD BE IN CERTAIN AREAS, WE'VE HAD MORE

                    MEASLES OUTBREAKS IN THE PAST FEW YEARS THAN WE'VE HAD PRIOR TO THAT.

                    AND THIS YEAR'S OUTBREAK IN THE UNITED STATES IS THE LARGEST OUTBREAK

                    SINCE 1992 - 27 YEARS AGO, MORE THAN A QUARTER OF A CENTURY - AND MOST

                    OF THE THOUSAND-PLUS PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN THE MEASLES ARE FROM

                    NEW YORK STATE, AND MOST OF THEM ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE UNVACCINATED.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  OKAY.  AS AN ASIDE, I JUST GOT

                    TO REPORT THAT THE CASES -- THE NUMBER OF NEW CASES REPORTED --

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I'M HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE BECAUSE

                    THERE'S NOISE.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  I AM, TOO.  THE NUMBER OF NEW

                    CASES REPORTED IN MAY WAS 73 CASES.  IN JUNE, FIVE.  I JUST THOUGHT YOU

                    -- YOU MAY BE AWARE OF THAT.  I JUST SAW IT TODAY.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, IF THAT'S -- IF THAT'S CORRECT,

                    THAT'S VERY GOOD NEWS.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  BUT NONETHELESS, OVER 1,000

                    PEOPLE HAVE CONTRACTED THE MEASLES, AND WHAT THIS BILL -- IT'S IMPORTANT

                                         40



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    NOT JUST FOR THE CURRENT OUTBREAK -- AND I WON'T CALL IT AN EPIDEMIC,

                    BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT NUMBER YOU NEED FOR THAT, BUT I'M SURE THIS

                    ISN'T THAT NUMBER.  BUT WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE FUTURE.  AND SINCE

                    WE'VE SEEN IN RECENT YEARS THAT MEASLES HAS MADE A COMEBACK, MAINLY

                    BECAUSE OF PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO VACCINATE, WE HAVE TO TAKE THE PROPER

                    PRECAUTIONS TO PROTECT OUR CHILDREN.  AND ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE

                    NEED TO DO IS TO PASS THIS LEGISLATION, ELIMINATE THE NONMEDICAL

                    EXEMPTIONS.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  THANK

                    YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MS. MONTESANO -- MR. MONTESANO.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU.  YOU KNOW, A -- A

                    -- A LOT OF US WILL BE SPEAKING ABOUT DIFFERENT SUBJECT MATTERS TODAY IN

                    CONNECTION WITH THIS, BUT AS THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL WAS JUST

                    MENTIONING, THE -- THE EFFECT OF THE VACCINE AND WHAT'S GOING ON WITH

                    THE CHILDREN AND THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE EXPOSED TO IT.  YOU KNOW, ONE OF

                    THESE REASONS THAT THIS HAPPENS IS BECAUSE WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL

                    COMPANY, MERCK, THE MANUFACTURER OF THIS PARTICULAR VACCINE AND

                    SEVERAL OTHERS, IS THEIR COURSE OF CONDUCT.  THERE'S A LAWSUIT PENDING IN

                    THE EASTERN DISTRICT FEDERAL COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA AGAINST MERCK.  IT'S

                    A WHISTLEBLOWER LAWSUIT THAT WAS BROUGHT IN 2010 AND IS STILL ALIVE

                                         41



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    TODAY IN THE COURTHOUSE.  THE WHISTLEBLOWERS TESTIFIED THAT MERCK

                    ALTERED THE RESULTS OF THEIR VACCINE TEST TO SHOW THAT IT HAD A 95 PERCENT

                    EFFECTIVE RATE WHEN, IN FACT, IT WAS MORE LIKE 60 PERCENT.  THEY -- THEY

                    MIXED IT WITH RABBIT BLOOD IN ORDER TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE

                    EFFECT.  SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHY THE VACCINES MAY NOT BE WORKING,

                    IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS BECAUSE OF THE CONDUCT OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL

                    COMPANIES.  THIS CASE IS STILL PENDING.  THERE'S A LOT TO IT.  AND IT'S U.S.

                    V. MERCK BECAUSE IT'S A FRAUD CLAIM AGAINST THE UNITED STATES

                    GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZES A LOT OF THESE VACCINE

                    PROGRAMS THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES.  SO, THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS TO

                    CONSIDER, IS THE CONDUCT OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THAT GENERATE

                    THESE VACCINES AND PUT THEM THROUGH THE MARKET.  NOW, ALSO WHEN THE

                    VACCINES ARE MADE, THEY ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE SAME RIGOROUS TESTING

                    THAT REGULAR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS ARE SUBJECTED TO.  SO, THERE IS NO WAY TO

                    REALLY TEST THEM.  AND, IN FACT, IT'S SUCH A SKETCHY SITUATION THAT A

                    NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT CREATED THE

                    VACCINE COURT, AS THEY REFER TO IT AS, BECAUSE THE PHARMACEUTICAL

                    COMPANIES WERE GETTING SUED ON MANY OCCASIONS BECAUSE OF THE SIDE

                    EFFECTS THESE VACCINES WERE HAVING ON CHILDREN.  SO, THE THREAT FROM

                    THEM WAS THEY WEREN'T GOING TO PRODUCE THE VACCINES ANYMORE, SO THE

                    GOVERNMENT TOOK THE POSSESSION -- POSITION, YOU CONTINUE TO PRODUCE

                    THESE VACCINES, AND THE US GOVERNMENT WILL INDEMNIFY YOU AND WILL

                    HEAR THE CLAIMS AND THE CASES.  SO, THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES.

                                 THE NEXT ISSUE IS LOOKING AT A NEW YORK STATE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SHEET AS TO WHAT THE DATES AND DOSES -- THE AGES

                                         42



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    AND DOSES SHOULD BE OF VACCINES TO CHILDREN.  OF COURSE, WHEN THEY

                    START PRE-K ALL THE WAYS [SIC] UP TO HIGH SCHOOL, THEY RECEIVE AN AVERAGE

                    OF 30 DOSES OF VACCINES DURING THAT PERIOD OF THEIR LIFETIME.  AND THERE

                    ARE A TOTAL OF NINE MANDATORY VACCINES THEY HAVE TO RECEIVE.  ALSO, THE

                    OBJECTIONS TO MANY PEOPLE ON RELIGIOUS GROUNDS IS THE CONTENT OF THE

                    VACCINE ITSELF.  PEOPLE IN THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY COMPLAINED THAT SOME

                    OF THE CONTENT OF THE VACCINE IS DERIVED FROM PORK, FROM PIG FETAL

                    TISSUE, AND IT'S A VIOLATION OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS TO HAVE THIS PUT INTO

                    THEIR SYSTEM.  MANY CHILDREN HAVE EXPERIENCED EPISODES OF SEIZURES.

                    THERE'S RARE CASES WHERE SOME CHILDREN HAVE DIED.  THERE'S CASES

                    WHERE THE UNDERLYING MEDICAL CONDITION OF THE CHILD DOESN'T MAKE IT

                    CONDUCIVE TO HAVING A VACCINE; HOWEVER, THE PARENT APPLIES TO THE

                    SCHOOL FOR THE MEDICAL EXEMPTION WITH THE NOTE FROM THE PHYSICIAN,

                    AND THE SCHOOL NURSE IS THE ONE THAT DECIDES IF SHE'S GOING TO OVERRIDE

                    THE PHYSICIAN.  AND THEN IF THERE'S AN APPEAL, IT'S THE STATE EDUCATION

                    DEPARTMENT THAT DEALS WITH THIS, NOT THE NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT

                    OF HEALTH - ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND FROM ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES THAT

                    THERE'S A BILL THAT HE'S GOING TO BE BRINGING OUT THAT ADDRESSES THAT ISSUE,

                    AND I'LL BE VERY HAPPY TO CO-SPONSOR THAT BILL.  SO WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT

                    ARE NOT ONLY RELATED IN THE MEDICAL PROFESSION ARE MAKING DECISIONS TO

                    OVERRIDE A MEDICAL DOCTOR WHEN HE DETERMINES THAT HIS PATIENT SHOULD

                    NOT HAVE A VACCINATION OR NOT.

                                 NOW, I WAS LOOKING AT A -- A RULING FROM A NEW YORK

                    CITY SCHOOL REGARDING AN APPLICATION FOR A MEDICAL EXEMPTION, AND IT

                    WAS GRANTED.  AND THE CAVEAT THAT WAS PUT IN THERE - WHICH WAS

                                         43



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    ACCEPTABLE TO THE PARENTS AND SEEMS TO BE THEIR STANDARD CAVEAT THAT

                    THEY PUT IN THAT THE PARENTS ABIDE BY - IS THAT IF YOUR CHILD IS NOT

                    VACCINATED AND A CASE OF MEASLES BREAKS OUT OR ANOTHER VACCINE-

                    PROTECTED AILMENT BEGINS, THE CHILD HAS TO BE REMOVED FROM SCHOOL FOR

                    AT LEAST 18 DAYS UNTIL IT CLEARS UP.  AND THAT'S ACCEPTABLE TO THE PARENTS.

                    THEIR CHILD IS NOT VACCINATED, SOMEONE ELSE IN THE SCHOOL COMES DOWN

                    WITH MEASLES OR MUMPS OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, THEN THEIR KID IS

                    EXCLUDED FOR A PERIOD OF TIME FROM THE SCHOOL AND THE PARENTS LIVE WITH

                    THAT.  BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS TODAY, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S VERY

                    CONCERNING TO ME AND I KNOW TO SOME OF MY OTHER COLLEAGUES, IS THAT

                    THIS BILL IS TARGETING THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  IT'S AN ATTACK ON PEOPLE'S

                    FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT; THEIR RIGHT TO EXPRESS THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, THE

                    EXERCISE OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND FREEDOMS.  BECAUSE THERE'S AN

                    ARGUMENT THERE THAT WELL, THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS OF THE DIFFERENT

                    DENOMINATIONS OUT THERE - WHETHER IT BE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THE

                    JEWISH FAITH, THE MUSLIM FAITH OR WHATEVER THE CASE IT MAY BE - ARE NOT

                    EXPLICITLY OUT THERE SAYING IT'S A VIOLATION OF RELIGIOUS TENETS OR WE DON'T

                    HAVE A -- YOU KNOW, AND MANY OF THEM SAY, WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM

                    WITH IT, IT'S STILL THE INDIVIDUAL PARENT WHO'S RAISING THIS CHILD THAT HAS

                    THE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THEIR CHILD IN -- IN

                    ALL FACETS OF THEIR LIFE.  AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IN THEIR EDUCATION AND IN

                    THEIR HEALTH CARE.  AND IF PEOPLE HAVE HAD ADVERSE EXPERIENCES WITH

                    VACCINATIONS OR BELIEVE THAT THE CONTENTS OF THAT VACCINE VIOLATES THEIR

                    RELIGIOUS TENETS, BELIEF OR EXPRESSION, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO THAT

                    PROTECTION.  WE ARE JUST TARGETING ONE THING IN A BILL AGAINST PEOPLE'S

                                         44



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND OBSERVANCE, AND I THINK THIS IS A VERY, VERY

                    DANGEROUS ROAD TO START TRAVELING DOWN.

                                 EVERY BILL THAT I'VE BEEN AT THIS HOUSE FOR NINE YEARS,

                    WE CONTINUALLY ALWAYS ARGUE ABOUT PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE, ESPECIALLY

                    WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR HEALTH CARE AND TO THEIR BODIES.  THIS IS A PERFECT

                    EXAMPLE OF PEOPLE CHOOSING WHAT GOES INTO THEIR BODIES.  WHAT -- WHAT

                    MEDICAL PROCEDURE THEY'RE GOING TO SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO.  WHAT

                    MEDICAL TEST THEY'RE GOING TO SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO.  EVERYBODY WENT

                    INTO A PANIC BECAUSE 1,000 CASES OF MEASLES WERE REPORTED IN THE ENTIRE

                    UNITED STATES.  HOW MANY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE MAKE UP THE POPULATION

                    OF THE UNITED STATES?  IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, I BELIEVE WE HAD A

                    LITTLE OVER 600 CASES.  NEW YORK CITY ALONE HAS A POPULATION OF

                    ROUGHLY 11 MILLION PEOPLE.  SO, TO TURN AROUND AND USE THAT AS AN

                    EXCUSE TO ATTACK SOMEONE'S RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND EXEMPTIONS, I THINK IS

                    A VERY, VERY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT FOR US TO UNDERTAKE IN THIS STATE

                    LEGISLATURE.  WE HAVE TO GIVE PEOPLE CONSIDERATION.  EVEN IN THE CASE

                    -- TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, WHEN IT COMES TO THE MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS, I

                    DON'T THINK THE DOCTOR -- THE DOCTOR WHO WRITES THE -- THE MEDICAL

                    OPINION AND NOTE REGARDING THAT CHILD'S EXEMPTION SHOULD EVEN BE

                    CHALLENGED.  HE IS THE ATTENDING PHYSICIAN.  HE'S THE ONE WHO KNOWS

                    THE CHILD'S HISTORY, THE FAMILY'S MEDICAL HISTORY.  HE SHOULD NOT BE

                    SECOND-GUESSED, ESPECIALLY BY SOME BUREAUCRAT.

                                 SO I THINK AS WE MOVE ALONG TODAY AND WE HEAR THE

                    DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE MADE REGARDING, YOU KNOW,

                    THIS ISSUE, WHICH IS A VERY, VERY SERIOUS ISSUE FOR EVERYONE IN THIS STATE,

                                         45



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    NO MATTER WHAT SIDE OF THE AISLE YOU'RE ON, IT'S NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE.  IT'S

                    A FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES OF PEOPLE'S RIGHTS TO THEIR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. COLTON.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, SIR.  JUST A COUPLE

                    OF MINOR QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR YOU.  AGAIN, THE -- THE CRITERIA OR THE

                    REASON FOR THIS BILL IS WHAT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  SAY IT AGAIN.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  YOU CAN'T HEAR ME?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NO.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  JUST -- JUST AGAIN, COULD YOU

                    REITERATE WHAT THE REASON FOR THIS BILL IS?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THE REASON FOR THE BILL IS BOTH AN

                    OUTGROWTH OF THE CURRENT MEASLES -- MEASLES OUTBREAK, BUT I THINK

                    BEYOND THAT BECAUSE I INTRODUCED THE BILL BEFORE THIS CURRENT OUTBREAK.

                    THE FACT THAT MEASLES, WHICH IS A DISEASE WHICH CAN PERMANENTLY INJURE

                    SOMEBODY OR EVEN KILL THEM -- THANKFULLY, THAT'S NOT HAPPENED DURING

                    THIS OUTBREAK, BUT WE KNOW THAT MEASLES CAN DAMAGE THE BRAIN, CAN

                                         46



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    CAUSE ENCEPHALITIS, CAN CAUSE BLINDNESS, CAN AFFECT YOUR HEARING.  THE

                    RATES OF -- OF -- OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GETTING THE MMR VACCINE,

                    AMONG OTHER VACCINES, IS DANGEROUSLY HIGH, AFFECTING IN CERTAIN

                    COMMUNITIES HERD IMMUNITY.  SO ONCE CALIFORNIA HAD THIS DISCUSSION

                    AS A RESULT OF AN OUTBREAK THERE, THEY CHANGED THEIR LAW.  AND IT WAS

                    VERY CONTROVERSIAL THERE, ALSO.  THERE WERE A LOT OF ANTI-SCIENCE PEOPLE

                    IN EVERY STATE.  THEY CHANGED THEIR LAW TO ELIMINATE ALL BUT NONMEDICAL

                    EXEMPTIONS, AND LO AND BEHOLD, THE VACCINATION RATE IN CALIFORNIA WENT

                    FROM APPROXIMATELY 90 PERCENT TO APPROXIMATELY 95 PERCENT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  I'M SORRY, I CAN'T -- I CAN'T HEAR

                    YOU.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THE VACCINATION RATE IN CALIFORNIA,

                    ONCE THEY ELIMINATED NONMEDICAL EXEMPTIONS, WENT FROM 90 PERCENT,

                    APPROXIMATELY, TO 95 PERCENT, PROTECTING, OF COURSE, NOT ONLY THE PEOPLE

                    WHO WERE VACCINATED, BUT ALSO THE YOUNG CHILDREN WHO CAN'T BE

                    VACCINATED FOR MEDICAL REASONS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO -- SO THE GIST OF THE

                    BILL IS TO PROTECT OUR YOUNG CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS, MAKING SURE

                    EVERYBODY'S VACCINATED.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  IT'S -- THE -- THE PURPOSE OF THE BILL

                    IS TO PROTECT PEOPLE, BUT PARTICULARLY CHILDREN.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO HAS ANY -- ANY

                    QUESTIONS BEEN BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION ABOUT POSSIBLY THE STAFF

                    MEMBERS AT THE SCHOOL, THE TEACHERS, THE BUS DRIVERS?  ANY -- AND -- HAS

                    THAT -- HAS THAT EVER BEEN BROUGHT UP?

                                         47



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NO ONE HAS BROUGHT THAT UP TO ME.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  BECAUSE I -- I MADE SOME

                    PHONE CALLS THIS MORNING BEFORE SESSION, AND I TALKED TO SOME OF THE

                    LOCAL SCHOOLS BACK HOME.  WHETHER YOU'RE A BUS DRIVER, A TEACHER, AN

                    ASSISTANT, A COACH, A REF, A SCHOOL NURSE OR ANY OTHER POSITION IN THE

                    SCHOOL, NONE OF THE SCHOOLS THAT I TALKED TO ASKED THAT UPON HIRING THAT

                    INDIVIDUAL.  SO IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THIS A RELIGIOUS BELIEF SITUATION

                    WHERE, I DON'T WANT YOU TO COME TO THE SCHOOL BECAUSE MY RELIGIOUS

                    BELIEFS, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THE OTHER INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE

                    COMING TO THAT SCHOOL THAT COULD HAVE THE SAME ISSUES?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, IT'S SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE

                    INSPIRING ME TO DRAFT ADDITIONAL LEGISLATION.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OH, ABSOLUTELY NOT.  NO.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 SO -- BUT IF WE'RE HERE TO PROTECT THE YOUNG KIDS, WHY

                    ARE WE NOT DOING THAT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, WE COULD DO THAT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY, SO --

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  BUT THIS BILL -- THIS BILL IS FOCUSED

                    SIMPLY ON CHANGING THE LAW REQUIRING VACCINATION REQUIREMENTS FOR

                    CHILDREN WHO GO TO A SCHOOL OR DAYCARE.  BUT THAT DOESN'T PRECLUDE US

                    FROM CONSIDERING OTHER POTENTIAL LEGISLATION IN THE FUTURE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO BACK IN MY

                    HOMETOWN, IN MY HOME COMMUNITY, WE NOW HAVE A LOT OF THE AMISH

                    MOVING INTO THE AREA, AND I KNOW A LOT OF THEM DO NOT VACCINATE.  BUT

                                         48



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    AT THE SAME TIME, THEY HAVE THEIR PRIVATE SCHOOLS, BUT THEY USE PUBLIC

                    TRANSPORTATION.  THEY USE OUR SCHOOL BUSES TO TRANSPORT THEM AROUND.

                    HOW DO WE HANDLE A SITUATION LIKE THAT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, THIS BILL DOESN'T LIMIT IT -- IT'S

                    NOT LIMITED TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN THE FIRST PLACE.  THIS BILL INCLUDES ALL

                    SCHOOLS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO -- SO AN AMISH SCHOOL IS

                    GOING TO HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THIS AS WELL, CORRECT, WITH THE BILL?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  IF IT'S A SCHOOL, YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WHO IS GOING TO -- WHO IS

                    GOING TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WOULD

                    BE THE AGENCY THAT WOULD DEAL WITH THINGS RELATING TO HEALTH.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  DO -- DO THEY HAVE

                    ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF ALL THESE SCHOOLS?  DO YOU KNOW?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I'M SORRY, DO THEY HAVE WHAT?

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  DOES THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    HEALTH HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THESE SCHOOLS?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  KNOWLEDGE OF THE SCHOOLS?

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  YES.  DO THEY KNOW THEY

                    EXIST?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I IMAGINE THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    EDUCATION MUST KNOW THEY EXIST, AND I WOULD HOPE THAT TWO AGENCIES

                    CAN COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  I THANK YOU FOR YOUR

                                         49



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    TIME.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YOU'RE WELCOME.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO JUST LIKE SOME OF MY OTHER

                    CONSTITUENTS HAD SAID THIS MORNING, THIS IS ABOUT GOING AFTER THE FIRST

                    AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF.  AND IF WE'RE GOING TO GO DOWN

                    THIS BAD, BAD ROAD AS LEGISLATORS, WE'RE REALLY OPENING OURSELVES UP TO A

                    CAN OF WORMS.

                                 YESTERDAY IN THIS -- YESTERDAY IN THIS -- IN THIS

                    BUILDING, ON THIS FLOOR, WE GAVE RIGHTS TO UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE.

                    UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE THAT AREN'T EVEN CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES.

                    BUT TODAY WE HAVE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES WHO UNDER THEIR

                    CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT HAVE THE OPTION UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO USE

                    THEIR -- THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.  I JUST DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S -- HOW THAT'S

                    PRACTICAL HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.  HOW ON ONE HAND WE CAN HONOR AND

                    LET PEOPLE THAT AREN'T EVEN DOCUMENTED, AREN'T EVEN CITIZENS, HAVE RIGHTS

                    IN THIS STATE, IN THIS COUNTRY?  PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN HERE, PAID TAXES

                    HERE, ARE LEGAL HERE DON'T HAVE THE OPTION TO PROTECT THEIR CHILD --

                    EXCUSE ME?  THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE OPTION TO PROTECT THEIR CHILD.

                    WE'RE TAKING THAT RIGHT AWAY FROM THEM.  AS -- AS THE ASSEMBLYMAN

                    JUST SAID -- EXCUSE ME -- JUST SAID, WE GIVE THE RIGHTS ABOUT THE HEALTH

                    OF THE WOMAN, THE HEALTH OF THE BABY, THE HEALTH OF THIS, THE HEALTH OF

                    THAT.  THESE INDIVIDUALS HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY YES OR NO TO WHAT'S GOING

                    INTO THEIR CHILD.  AND AS SOME OF THE OTHER ONES SAID, I'VE ONLY BEEN

                                         50



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    HERE SIX MONTHS, BUT THIS IS PROBABLY THE HARDEST BILL THAT I'VE WENT

                    OVER, OTHER THAN THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ACT, OVER AND OVER IN MY

                    HEAD ON WHAT TO DO AND WHAT'S RIGHT AND WHAT'S WRONG.

                                 SO I'M GOING TO ASK THIS FLOOR, THESE COLLEAGUES, TO

                    REALLY CONSIDER WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON HERE.  THIS IS REALLY ABOUT A

                    PARENT'S RIGHTS TO DECIDE WHAT GOES INTO THEIR CHILD.  AND IF IT'S ALL ABOUT

                    THE SCHOOLS AND KEEPING THOSE KIDS SAFE AT SCHOOLS, THEN YOU'D BETTER

                    DRAFT A WHOLE -- ANOTHER QUICK BILL, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE

                    WITHIN THOSE SCHOOLS THAT DON'T HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE WHETHER THEY'RE

                    DOCUMENTED OR NOT DOCUMENTED -- I'M SORRY, WHETHER THEY'RE

                    VACCINATED OR NOT VACCINATED.

                                 SO, IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THE WHOLE THING AND PROTECT

                    OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, PROTECT THESE KIDS, LET'S MAKE SURE WE DO THE WHOLE

                    THING.  AND THERE'S NO REASON WHY THIS SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DRAFTED IN

                    THAT BILL AS WELL.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. PHILLIP STECK.

                                 MR. STECK:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                    FREEDOM OF RELIGION IS A CORNERSTONE OF AMERICAN LIFE.  OUR

                    CONSTITUTION RECOGNIZED THE HARM THAT RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE CAUSED IN

                    OTHER NATIONS, AND ENACTED FREEDOM OF RELIGION AS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT.

                    THE RIGHT TO WORSHIP IN ONE'S OWN HOME, IN A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION OF

                    ONE'S CHOOSING, AND TO ENGAGE IN RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IS CRITICAL.  AS A

                    CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY, HOWEVER, I KNOW THAT THERE IS NO RIGHT IN THE

                    CONSTITUTION THAT IS ABSOLUTE.  ALL RIGHTS MUST GIVE WAY WHEN THERE IS A

                                         51



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    COMPELLING GOVERNMENT INTEREST.  THE SUPREME COURT HAS HELD, THIS IS

                    SO WHERE VACCINES ARE INVOLVED.  VACCINATIONS HAVE ACHIEVED

                    UNPARALLELED SUCCESS IN ERADICATING DISEASE.  THE SUCCESS OF VACCINE

                    DEPENDS ON KEEPING THE PERCENTAGE OF THOSE VACCINATED EXTREMELY

                    HIGH.  THOSE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN INOCULATED DO NOT GET THE DISEASE

                    BECAUSE THERE'S NO ONE TO GET THE DISEASE FROM.  I AM CONVINCED THAT

                    MAINTAINING THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE RATES OF INOCULATION AND PRESERVING

                    OUR IMMUNITY FROM THESE DISEASES IS A COMPELLING STATE INTEREST THAT

                    MUST OVERCOME FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

                                 VACCINES CARRY MEDICAL RISK.  SOME PEOPLE IN SOCIETY

                    HAVE MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT PUT THEM AT GREATER RISK OF HARM FROM A

                    VACCINE THAN OTHERS.  WE CERTAINLY SUPPORT A BILL TO ASSURE THAT ALL

                    PERSONS WHO QUALIFY FOR AN EXEMPTION UNDER THE PROTOCOLS OF THE

                    CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL GET THAT EXEMPTION WITHOUT INTERFERENCE

                    FROM GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO ARE NOT MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS.  IN THIS

                    COUNTRY WE HAVE THE FEDERAL FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, THE

                    CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND OTHER BODIES THAT MONITOR VACCINES.

                    NEW YORK STATE DOES NOT MONITOR THE SCIENCE OF VACCINES.  WE DO NOT

                    SIT HERE IN REVIEW OF THE CDC.  I'VE SPENT HOURS DISCUSSING THIS ISSUE

                    WITH CITIZENS ADVOCATING RETENTION OF THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.

                    FORMERLY, I WAS A SUPPORTER OF THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  HOWEVER,

                    FROM THESE DISCUSSIONS IT HAS BECOME ABUNDANTLY CLEAR TO ME THAT AT

                    LEAST 90 PERCENT OF THOSE ADVOCATING FOR THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION ARE

                    ARGUING AGAINST VACCINES BASED ON THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND OPINIONS THAT

                    VACCINES ARE HARMFUL.  THAT IS NOT A RELIGIOUS CLAIM.  THAT IS A CLAIM

                                         52



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THAT THE MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY IS WRONG, EVEN THOUGH, AS I

                    SAID, VACCINES HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENTS IN PUBLIC

                    HEALTH IN THE 20TH CENTURY.  THE NUMBER OF PERSONS SEEKING THE

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION HAS PROLIFERATED.  SOME DO SEEK THE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION BECAUSE THE MEDICAL EXEMPTION IS CUMBERSOME, AND AS I

                    INDICATED, NEEDS REFORM.  BUT THAT IS NOT A GROUND FOR HAVING A

                    COMPLETELY VAGUE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION THAT ANYONE CAN USE FOR ANY

                    REASON AT ALL, WHETHER BASED ON RELIGION OR NOT.

                                 THE MARCH OF DIMES RECENTLY VISITED MY OFFICE AND

                    ADVOCATED ON BEHALF OF CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN GRIEVOUSLY HARMED BY

                    BEING IN THE PRESENCE OF UNVACCINATED CHILDREN.  I AGREE WITH THE

                    MARCH OF DIMES THAT VACCINATION IS FOR THE GREATER GOOD OF THE PUBLIC.

                                 I WILL BE VOTING TO ELIMINATE THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION

                    AND WILL SUPPORT STRENGTHENING THE MEDICAL EXEMPTION.  THERE ARE

                    TIMES WHEN, QUOTE, "THE NEEDS OF THE MANY OUTWEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE

                    FEW AND THE ONE."  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. COLTON.

                                 MR. COLTON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. COLTON:  I THINK THE BILL IS VERY

                    WELL-INTENTIONED AND I COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THAT.  HOWEVER, I DO

                    HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONAL BASIS FOR THIS BILL.  I THINK IT IS

                    CLEAR THAT THERE IS GUARANTEES FOR FREEDOM TO PRACTICE RELIGION IN OUR

                                         53



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    CONSTITUTION, AND I THINK IT IS ALSO CLEAR THOSE GUARANTEES ARE NOT

                    ABSOLUTE.  I THINK THAT WHEN WE DECIDE TO RESTRICT A RELIGIOUS BELIEF, WE

                    NEED TO, NUMBER ONE, GOVERNMENT WOULD NEED TO SHOW THAT THERE IS A

                    COMPELLING INTEREST FOR DOING SO.  AND FRANKLY, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW,

                    HAVING A LAW THAT REQUIRES VACCINES COULD BE A COMPELLING INTEREST.

                    BUT WE ALSO NEED TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT IS AS NARROW AS POSSIBLE.  AND

                    I'M CONCERNED THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION -- THIS BILL, WHICH WAS

                    PROMPTED BY A NUMBER OF CASES OF MEASLES HAVING BROKEN OUT -- I HAVE

                    HEARD NO EVIDENCE THAT ANY OF THESE MEASLES WERE RELATED TO SOMEBODY

                    WHO WAS NOT VACCINATED BECAUSE OF A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  AND THAT

                    TROUBLES ME.  I ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR

                    THE OPPOSITION TO THIS BILL HAVE VERY OFTEN STATED THINGS THAT ARE NOT

                    RELATED TO A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  CERTAINLY, THERE SHOULD NOT BE AN

                    EXEMPT -- AN EXEMPTION BECAUSE SOMEBODY BELIEVES THAT THERE'S SCIEN

                    -- SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT THEIR CHILD WILL BE HARMED, EVEN THOUGH THEY

                    DON'T HAVE ANY MEDICAL DOCUMENTATION FOR THAT.  BUT STILL, WE NEED TO

                    SHOW THE GREATEST RESPECT FOR RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.  AND I AM

                    CONCERNED THAT IF WE PASS THIS BILL ELIMINATING ALL RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS

                    IN THE ISSUE OF VACCINATIONS, THAT WE MAY BE WEAKENING THAT IN OTHER

                    INSTANCES WHERE IT WOULD BE A SERIOUS THREAT TO THE PRACTICE OF RELIGION.

                    I AM VERY RELUCTANT TO REMOVE EXEMPTIONS FOR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS UNLESS I

                    AM CLEARLY CONVINCED THAT THERE'S A COMPELLING REASON IN THAT PARTICULAR

                    INSTANCE, AND UNLESS -- UNLESS THERE IS A NARROW RULING, A NARROW

                    DEFINITION OF REMOVING THAT EXEMPTION.  AND I BELIEVE THIS BILL IS TOO

                    BROAD, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS NOT SHOWING THAT THERE IS A

                                         54



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN REMOVING THE EXEMPTION AND THE SPREAD OF

                    MEASLES.  AND WITHOUT THAT, I AM VERY RELUCTANT TO VOTE FOR THIS BILL.

                                 I BELIEVE THAT WE MUST PROTECT THE EXERCISE OF RELIGION,

                    AND WE DO NOT WANT TO SET PRECEDENTS THAT MIGHT BE USED TO WEAKEN

                    THOSE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND THOSE PRACTICES.  AND FOR THAT REASON, I

                    REALLY DO NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE VOTING FOR THE BILL AS IT CURRENTLY IS

                    WRITTEN.  WE MIGHT CONSIDER DEFINING -- DEFINING THE EXEMPTION LISTED

                    IN THE STATUTE MORE SPECIFICALLY, BUT THE WAY IT IS LISTED RIGHT NOW I AM

                    NOT COMFORTABLE JUST OVERTURNING IT BASED UPON, YOU KNOW, THE

                    POSSIBILITY THAT THERE'S A LARGER NUMBER OF MEASLES CASES AND THAT IT MAY

                    BE RELATED TO THE VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE A

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, WHICH I HAVE HEARD IS AS LITTLE AS 1 PERCENT.

                                 SO AT THIS POINT, I'M REALLY NOT COMFORTABLE VOTING FOR

                    THIS BILL.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ZEBROWSKI.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  LET

                    ME FIRST START BY SAYING -- WELL, LET ME FIRST START BY SAYING ON THE BILL,

                    SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  LET ME NEXT SAY THAT I'VE MET

                    WITH PARENTS IN MY DISTRICT OFFICE, UP HERE IN ALBANY, AND LET ME FIRST

                    STATE THAT, YOU KNOW, I FEEL FOR THEM.  I BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE THEIR OWN

                    BELIEFS BY WHICH THEY ARE SCARED THAT VACCINES COULD HURT THEIR

                    CHILDREN.  AND AS A FATHER MYSELF, YOU HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS AND I --

                    AND I DON'T MINIMIZE THOSE.  AND THEY'RE TOUGH DISCUSSIONS, TOUGH

                                         55



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    CONVERSATIONS.  BUT IT'S TOUGH TO DEBATE WHEN YOU BOTH DON'T START FROM

                    A SIMILAR BASIS, BECAUSE MY BASIS HAS TO BE AS A LEGISLATOR.  THE MEDICAL

                    CONSENSUS, THE CONSENSUS OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY AND THE DOCTORS

                    BY WHICH I BELIEVE WE ALL IN THIS ROOM HAVE SEEN THE DATA, HEARD THE

                    DATA, TALKED TO DOCTORS.  I MEAN, IT'S EVEN AT A POINT, COLLEAGUES, WHERE

                    MANY PEDIATRICIANS' OFFICES WON'T EVEN SEE OR TREAT PATIENTS IF THEY ARE

                    NOT VACCINATED.  SO I DON'T THINK WE CAN REALLY HAVE A DEBATE OVER

                    WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A MEDICAL CONSENSUS, BECAUSE THERE IS ONE.

                                 I ALSO NEED TO STAND UP BECAUSE I REPRESENT ONE OF THE

                    COUNTIES THAT HAS THE EPIDEMIC.  I LIVE THERE.  I'M EXPERIENCING THIS RIGHT

                    NOW, NOT JUST AS AN ASSEMBLYMEMBER, BUT AS A PARENT.  LET ME JUST

                    GIVE YOU SOME OF THE DATA, BECAUSE I THINK SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE

                    TALKED ABOUT AND WILL TALK ABOUT THE LACK OF DATA OR THE LACK OF

                    EVIDENCE.  THE EVIDENCE IS THERE, AND LET ME TALK ABOUT IT.

                                 IN ROCKLAND COUNTY WE'VE HAD 266 CONFIRMED CASES

                    OF MEASLES.  THERE'S BEEN 16 HOSPITALIZATIONS, THREE THAT HAVE REQUIRED

                    TREATMENT IN THE ICU; TWO IN THE PEDIATRIC ICU AND ONE IN THE NEWBORN

                    ICU.  SINCE THE EPIDEMIC, THE COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAS GIVEN

                    OUT OVER 22,834 VACCINATIONS.  THERE IS ABOUT 330,000 PEOPLE IN

                    ROCKLAND COUNTY.  SO WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE STATISTICS --

                    STATISTICS ARE A FUNNY THING, RIGHT?  LIKE, YOU CAN TAKE THAT PERCENTAGE

                    AND BE LIKE, WELL, IT'S NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE.  WELL, THAT IS 22,834

                    PEOPLE THAT WERE NOT VACCINATED THAT ARE WALKING AROUND ROCKLAND

                    COUNTY, SHOPPING IN OUR STORES, GOING TO OUR DAY CARES, GOING TO OUR

                    SCHOOLS, THAT IF ONE OF THEM CONTRACTS MEASLES CAN PUT THE REST OF THOSE

                                         56



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    22,000 AT RISK.  OR -- OR ALL THE CHILDREN THAT ARE TOO YOUNG TO GET

                    VACCINATED, OF WHICH I HAVE ONE.  LUCKILY, SHE JUST TURNED ONE ON

                    FRIDAY.  BUT -- SO SHE WAS ABLE TO GET HER FIRST SHOT.  BUT HER FIRST SHOT

                    WASN'T HER FIRST SHOT, COLLEAGUES.  BECAUSE LIVING IN A COUNTY WITH THIS

                    EPIDEMIC, MY DAUGHTER HAD TO GET A SHOT AT SIX MONTHS.  THE NORMAL

                    CYCLE FOR THE MMR IS ONE YEAR AND FOUR YEARS, BUT I HAD TO BRING HER IN

                    AT SIX MONTHS, AS HAVE SOME OF MY PEERS.  MY CHIEF-OF-STAFF IS SITTING

                    NEXT TO ME.  HE -- HE HAS A YOUNG DAUGHTER, SHE HAD TO GET IT AT SIX

                    MONTHS.  SO AS A YOUNG PARENT, AND AS MANY YOUNG PARENTS AROUND MY

                    DISTRICT, WE HAD TO GET OUR KIDS OVER- VACCINATED, AT LEAST ACCORDING TO

                    THE SCHEDULE, BECAUSE OF THIS EPIDEMIC.

                                 NOW, I'M -- I AM HAPPY TO LISTEN TO MY DOCTOR AND DO

                    WHAT NEEDS TO GET DONE.  BUT I DO RESENT NOT FOLLOWING THE NORMAL

                    SCHEDULE.  NOW, I'M NOT A DOCTOR SO I HAVE NOT POURED OVER THE MEDICAL

                    JOURNALS, AND I TRUST THAT IT IS SAFE.  BUT I ASSUME THERE IS A REASON WHY

                    IT'S ONE YEAR AND FOUR YEARS.  BUT I HAD TO GET HER A BOOSTER AT SIX

                    MONTHS.  THE EVIDENCE OF WHETHER OR NOT THE BOOSTER WOULD WORK,

                    THERE WERE -- IT'S -- IT'S BETTER THAN NOT GETTING IT, RIGHT?  AND THEN I'LL

                    HAVE TO GET THE FOUR-YEAR, I BELIEVE -- I'M NOT THERE YET -- AT 18 MONTHS,

                    AT A YEAR-AND-A-HALF.  SO, NO, I'M NOT PARTICULARLY THRILLED THAT I HAVE TO

                    GET AN EXTRA SHOT, THAT I HAVE TO MOVE UP THE SCHEDULE.  BUT I HAVE TO

                    DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO.

                                 LET ME ALSO SAY THAT THE COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT

                    RELEASES AND HAS RELEASED NUMEROUS TIMES EXPOSURE SITES IN ROCKLAND:

                    HOME DEPOT, COSTCO, BEST BUY.  AND YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I

                                         57



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    GET THESE EXPOSURE SITES?  WHAT DO YOU THINK I DO?  I CALL UP MY WIFE

                    AND I SAY, WERE YOU IN HOME DEPOT WITH REAGAN?  AND SHE SAYS, YES.

                    AND THEN I SAY, WHAT HOME DEPOT WERE YOU IN?  AND SHE SAYS, OH,

                    THE WEST NYACK HOME DEPOT.  AND I SAID, ALL RIGHT, GOOD.  BECAUSE

                    DURING THIS DAY FOR LIKE EIGHT HOURS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IF YOU WERE IN

                    THERE YOU COULD HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.  NOT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T VACCINATE,

                    BUT BECAUSE I HAVE A DAUGHTER THAT WAS UNDER THE AGE THAT COULD BE

                    VACCINATED.  SO AS WE TRY TO MINIMIZE WHETHER OR NOT THIS COULD BE AN

                    EPIDEMIC, IS A EPIDEMIC, IS A HEALTH HAZARD, I JUST ASK YOU HOW MANY

                    BEST BUYS, COSTCOS OR SIMILAR STORES YOU HAVE VISITED.  AND I ASK YOU

                    TO ANALYZE HOW MANY OF THESE HAVE BEEN VISITED BY YOUR CONSTITUENTS

                    WITH YOUNG CHILDREN OVER THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS.  BECAUSE IF YOU LIVE

                    IN MY COUNTY, THEY ALL COULD HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO MEASLES.  AND I

                    BELIEVE THAT IT'S UNDISPUTED THAT IF YOU ARE IN THE SAME ROOM WITH

                    SOMEBODY THAT HAS MEASLES, THERE'S A 90 PERCENT CHANCE THAT YOU WILL

                    GET MEASLES.

                                 SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES TALKED ABOUT THE NEED FOR

                    EVIDENCE, AND I'M SURE WE'LL HEAR THAT.  SO, I TALKED ABOUT THE NUMBER

                    OF CASES, I TALKED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF SHOTS THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN OUT.

                    IN ROCKLAND COUNTY, OF THOSE CASES, 77.8 PERCENT HAD ZERO

                    IMMUNIZATIONS AND ANOTHER 14 WERE UNKNOWN.  SO AT LEAST 92 PERCENT

                    HAD ZERO OR UNKNOWN SHOTS, IMMUNIZATIONS.  SO I THINK THAT'S PRETTY --

                    THAT IS PRETTY CONVINCING EVIDENCE.  AND 80 PERCENT OF THOSE THAT HAVE

                    MEASLES WERE UNDER THE AGE OF 18 AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN VACCINATED

                    AND WERE OF SCHOOL-AGE.  IS THAT -- IS THAT NOT EVIDENCE?  THERE ARE SIX

                                         58



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    SCHOOLS IN ROCKLAND COUNTY THAT HAVE AN OVER 20 PERCENT RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION CRITERIA -- OR THEY HAVE -- THEY HAVE OVER 20 PERCENT OF THEIR

                    STUDENTS THAT HAVE THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  SIX.  THERE'S ANOTHER --

                    THERE'S 12 THAT ARE OVER 10 PERCENT, 17 OVER 8 PERCENT.  THOSE ARE

                    SCHOOLS THAT ARE NOT AT THE LEVEL THAT WOULD PROTECT SOCIETY AND PROTECT

                    EVERYBODY ELSE AND ACHIEVE WHAT IS BEING -- WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS HERD

                    IMMUNITY.

                                 SO WE HEARD A BIT OF PEOPLE SAYING IT'S NOT AN

                    EPIDEMIC, ISN'T AN EPIDEMIC, WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF A EPIDEMIC.  I

                    THINK IT'S AN EPIDEMIC.  BUT I DON'T REALLY CARE BECAUSE OUR JOB IS NOT

                    JUST TO REACT TO EPIDEMICS.  OUR JOB AS LEGISLATORS IS TO PREVENT

                    EPIDEMICS.  SO IF ONE OF THOSE CHILDREN FROM ONE OF THOSE SIX SCHOOLS,

                    OR A CHILD THAT GOES TO ANY NUMBER OF THE DOZENS OF DOZENS OF DAY CARE

                    FACILITIES IN ROCKLAND COUNTY WAS IN THAT BEST BUY, WAS IN THAT COSTCO

                    DURING THE TIME WHEN SOMEONE HAD MEASLES, THE NEXT DAY WHEN THEY

                    WERE DROPPED OFF AT DAY CARE OR WENT IN TO SCHOOL, YOU WOULD HAVE AN

                    EXPLOSION.  A 90 PERCENT CHANCE THAT PERSON WOULD GET MEASLES, RIGHT,

                    AND THEN THEY WOULD BRING IT TO THAT -- ONE OF THOSE SCHOOLS THAT HAS

                    UNDER -- THAT HAS 20 PERCENT OR MORE CHILDREN UNVACCINATED OR INTO A

                    DAY CARE.  THEN YOU HAVE AN EPIDEMIC.  WHETHER WE HAVE ONE OR NOT,

                    YOU WANT TO DEBATE?  THEN WHAT WE WILL HAVE AN EPIDEMIC.  AND THEN

                    WHAT -- WHAT -- WHAT WOULD WE DO?  WANT TO CALL FOR A SPECIAL SESSION?

                    THEN WE'LL PASS THE BILL, EVERYBODY HAS THE EVIDENCE THEY WANT NOW?

                                 VACCINES HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE PREEMINENT MEDICAL

                    ADVANCEMENTS OF MODERN TIMES.  I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT THIS CAN BE

                                         59



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    ARGUED.  IT'S ERADICATED DEADLY DISEASES, ERADICATED DEBILITATING

                    DISEASES.  SOCIETY IS HEALTHIER BECAUSE OF VACCINES.  I THINK WE WOULD

                    ALL RECOGNIZE THAT.  GO BACK TO THE POLIO EPIDEMIC.  PEOPLE WERE LINING

                    UP IN ORDER TO GET THEIR VACCINES.  AND IN SOME WAYS I BELIEVE WE'RE A

                    VICTIM OF OUR OWN SUCCESS.  BECAUSE YOU DON'T NECESSARILY SEE THESE

                    OUTBREAKS ALL THE TIME, IT DOESN'T SEEM AS CRITICAL OR AS NECESSARY IN

                    ORDER TO PROMOTE THE VACCINATIONS AND TO ENSURE THAT EVERYBODY HAS

                    THEM.  BUT WHEN YOU HAVE AN OUTBREAK - AND I'VE HAD AN OUTBREAK - YOU

                    SEE HOW QUICKLY IT CAN SPIN OUT OF CONTROL AND YOU CAN SEE HOW QUICKLY

                    PEOPLE START TO ASK THEMSELVES, WHERE CAN I TAKE MY CHILD?  WHERE

                    SHOULD I TAKE MY CHILD?  WHAT HAPPENS?  BECAUSE YOU KNOW -- I -- I

                    DON'T THINK I HEARD IT BEFORE, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT THE SYMPTOMS OF -- OF

                    MEASLES ARE.  YOU DON'T BREAK OUT IN THE TYPICAL RASH RIGHT AWAY.  IT'S

                    VERY MUCH LIKE FLU-LIKE SYMPTOMS TO BEGIN WITH.  SO IT'S NOT LIKE

                    SOMEBODY WOULD BE IN THAT BEST BUY OR THAT COSTCO, SEE THE MEASLES

                    AND AUTOMATICALLY CALL UP THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.  THEY'D PROBABLY

                    SEND THEIR CHILD TO SCHOOL THE NEXT DAY.  SO IN RELATION TO THAT, YOU

                    KNOW, I THINK WE'RE A VICTIM OF OUR OWN SUCCESS, YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD

                    A LOT AS I'VE HAD THE DISCUSSIONS OF PEOPLE SAYING, WELL, WE'RE STILL IN A

                    LOT OF TIMES LIKE ABOVE THAT 90 PERCENT.  YOU KNOW, THERE'S SO FEW

                    PEOPLE DOING IT.  IT'S NOT REALLY THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION SO WE REALLY

                    SHOULDN'T CHANGE THIS BILL.  BUT YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF, WHAT IF MORE

                    PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT WAY?  WHAT IF MORE PEOPLE AVAILED THEMSELVES OF

                    THAT?  BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION.  I BELIEVE THERE'S A

                    MISCONCEPTION THAT PEOPLE THINK THAT THOSE PARENTS THAT ARE GETTING THEIR

                                         60



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    KIDS VACCINATED ARE EXCITED TO DO IT, ARE LINING UP, HAPPY TO BRING THEIR

                    CHILD IN.  LET ME -- LET ME DISPEL THAT MISCONCEPTION.  IT STINKS.  IT'S

                    TERRIBLE.  IT'S -- IT'S THE WORST WHEN YOU BRING YOUR -- YOUR CHILD INTO

                    THAT DOCTOR'S OFFICE.  I JUST DID IT LAST FRIDAY.  SHE HAD TO GET A

                    FINGERPRICK FOR LEAD AND SOMETHING ELSE, AND THEN -- AND THEN THREE

                    VACCINATIONS.  I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY, PROBABLY -- LET ME -- LET ME

                    REPHRASE THAT.  IT WOULD BE EASIER IF I KNEW EVERYBODY ELSE WAS GETTING

                    VACCINATED AND I COULD DEPEND UPON THEIR VACCINATIONS TO NOT GET MY

                    CHILD VACCINATED.  ONE, BECAUSE AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, SHE SCREAMED AND

                    YELLED WHEN SHE GOT THAT SHOT, THOSE SHOTS.  BUT TWO, IT'S JUST THIS THING.

                    IT'S JUST THIS THING AS A PARENT.  YOU HAVE THIS LITTLE INNOCENT CHILD, AND

                    PUTTING ANYTHING -- I'M NERVOUS WHEN I, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE GAVE HER

                    HER FIRST SOLID FOOD.  BUT CERTAINLY, ANY SHOT YOU GIVE YOUR CHILD THERE'S

                    JUST THIS LITTLE THING:  YOU ARE THEIR PROTECTOR, AND YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO

                    DO IT.  SO LET ME DISPEL THAT NOTION.  BUT IT'S UNFAIR OF ME AS A PARENT TO

                    JUST RELY ON EVERYBODY ELSE'S IMMUNITY, SO I HAVE TO DO IT.  RIGHT?  I

                    HAVE TO LISTEN TO MY PEDIATRICIAN, I HAVE TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR MY

                    CHILD AND RIGHT FOR SOCIETY.

                                 SO COLLEAGUES, I ASK YOU TODAY, I KNOW IT'S A DIFFICULT

                    VOTE.  I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS BUILDING THAT ARE VERY

                    PASSIONATE, AND I HONESTLY RESPECT THEIR PASSION.  BUT WE HAVE TO

                    PROTECT PUBLIC HEALTH, COLLEAGUES.  WE KNOW WHAT THE MEDICAL

                    COMMUNITY BELIEVES ABOUT VACCINATIONS.  WE KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A

                    ERADICATED DISEASES.  AND I HAVE JUST GIVEN YOU THE EVIDENCE OF A

                    COUNTY THAT IS GOING THROUGH THAT EPIDEMIC, ABOUT THE NUMBERS AND THE

                                         61



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    PERCENTAGES THAT ARE IN CERTAIN SCHOOLS, ABOUT THE NUMBERS AND

                    PERCENTAGES THAT HAVE GOTTEN MEASLES AND WHICH OF THOSE HAVE NOT

                    GOTTEN THE VACCINATION.  WE HAVE TO TAKE THE RIGHT VOTE.  BECAUSE, AS

                    WE'VE SEEN, WE MAY TURN AROUND IN TWO MONTHS, WE MAY TURN AROUND IN

                    SIX MONTHS, WE MAY TURN AROUND IN 18 MONTHS AND HAVE TO DO IT

                    BECAUSE THERE IS A FULL-BLOWN EPIDEMIC.  THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN, MAYBE

                    IN YOUR DISTRICT.  LET'S PREVENT THAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED

                    DO.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER -- MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER REYES:  MS. GLICK.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I RISE ON

                    THE BILL TO SAY THAT I BELIEVE IN SCIENCE.  I'M OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE BEEN

                    AROUND WHEN POLIO WAS A REAL THREAT.  AND I REMEMBER THE FEAR THAT MY

                    PARENTS HAD ABOUT US GOING ANYWHERE NEAR A -- A POOL OR GOING TO ANY

                    PLACE WHERE WE MIGHT BECOME EXPOSED TO POLIO.  AND I REMEMBER

                    EVERYONE LINING UP IN THE SCHOOL CAFETERIA TO GET A VACCINATION WHICH

                    OUR PARENTS WERE VERY HAPPY ABOUT AND WE WERE VERY HAPPY ABOUT,

                    BECAUSE IT MEANT THAT AT SOME POINT WE WOULD BE PROTECTED FROM WHAT

                    WE SAW WAS A VERY DEBILIA -- DEBILITATING DISEASE.  IT WASN'T THAT LONG

                    AFTER WORLD WAR II WHEN WE HAD A PRESIDENT WHO HAD BEEN AFFLICTED AS

                    A YOUNG MAN WITH POLIO.  AND WHILE IT WAS MANAGED SO THAT PEOPLE

                    DIDN'T KNOW THAT HE WAS MOSTLY IN A WHEELCHAIR, WE WERE AWARE OF THE

                    FACT THAT POLIO WAS A TERRIBLE DISEASE.  WE KNEW ABOUT THE IRON LUNG

                    THAT MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR SOME PEOPLE TO BREATHE, BUT IT DIDN'T MAKE IT

                    POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO HAVE A MOBILE LIFE.  SO, I BELIEVE IN SCIENCE.  AND

                                         62



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WHILE SCIENCE HAS SOMEHOW, DESPITE ALL OF THE ADVANCES IN THE 19TH AND

                    20TH CENTURY, HERE WE ARE IN THE 21ST CENTURY WHERE PEOPLE FROM THE

                    PRESIDENT ON DOWN ARE SOMEHOW CALLING INTO QUESTION THE THING THAT

                    HAS MADE LIFE SO MUCH BETTER FOR SO MANY OF US:  SCIENCE.  SO, I BELIEVE

                    IN SCIENCE.  I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MOB RULE.  I BELIEVE PEOPLE'S PASSIONS.

                    BUT WHEN THEIR INDIVIDUAL DISBELIEF IN SCIENCE IS LIKELY TO IMPACT OTHER

                    PEOPLE WHO FOR MANY REASONS MAY NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE A VACCINE,

                    PEOPLE WHO MAY BE -- AND YOUNGSTERS WHO MAY BE GETTING CANCER

                    TREATMENT, PEOPLE WITH VARIOUS IMMUNE DEFICIENCIES, PEOPLE WITH HIV.

                    I THINK IT IS INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS FOR PEOPLE TO SAY, WELL, I'M GOING TO

                    RELY ON THE "EVERYBODY ELSE GETTING VACCINATED BUT I'M NOT GOING TO

                    HAVE MY CHILDREN VACCINATED."

                                 THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED THE GREATER GOOD.  SEEMS TO

                    BE OUT OF FASHION THESE DAYS, BUT I STILL BELIEVE IN IT.  AND THE GREATER

                    GOOD IS THAT YOUR PERSONAL OPINIONS, WHICH MAY BE BASED ON JUNK

                    SCIENCE, DO NOT TRUMP THE GREATER GOOD.  AND THAT MEANS SOCIETY.  JUST

                    THIS WEEKEND I WAS LISTENING TO THE RADIO AND I HEARD AN

                    ANNOUNCEMENT, MUCH AS MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED, THAT THERE WAS A -- A

                    STORE IN SPRING VALLEY, AND IF YOU HAD BEEN IN THAT STORE BETWEEN THE

                    HOURS OF -- AND IT WASN'T DURING A SET PERIOD OF TIME.  IT WAS EXPLAINED

                    THAT MEASLES CAN STAY IN THE AIR BECAUSE IT'S -- IT'S AIRBORNE VIRUS OR

                    BACTERIA, BUT IT'S AIRBORNE AND IT STAYS IN THE AIR FOR A PERIOD OF HOURS.

                    SO PEOPLE HAVE TO THINK, WELL, DID I GO TO THAT STORE?  IF THEY HAVE -- IF

                    THEY OR SOMEONE THEY WERE WITH WERE UNABLE TO TAKE A VACCINE.  THESE

                    DISEASES ARE NOT -- YOU KNOW, I -- I HEARD SOME WOMAN TALK ABOUT HOW

                                         63



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    ALL OF HER KIDS HAD HAD THE MEASLES AND IT WAS FINE.  WELL, I'M VERY

                    HAPPY THAT NONE OF HER CHILDREN HAD A LONG-LASTING DISABLING CONDITION

                    AS A RESULT, ALTHOUGH ONE COULD HAVE A DISABLING CONDITION AS A RESULT.

                    AND WHILE THE FIRST AMENDMENT GIVES PEOPLE RIGHTS TO RELIGIOUS

                    BELIEFS, MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RELYING ON A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION

                    HAVE USED THIS NOT BECAUSE OF A DEEPLY-HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEF, BUT A

                    DEEPLY-HELD PERSONAL BELIEF THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION.

                                 I BELIEVE IN MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS.  THERE ARE PEOPLE

                    WHO HAVE ANY RANGE OF MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT PREVENT THEM OR -- OR

                    ARE CONTRAINDICATED FOR THEM TO HAVE A VACCINE.  BUT WE NEED TO PROTECT

                    THOSE PEOPLE WHO CANNOT TAKE A VACCINE.  AND THERE ARE PEOPLE AROUND

                    THE WORLD WHO ONLY WISH THEY HAD ACCESS TO A VACCINE BECAUSE THEY

                    LIVE IN PLACES WHERE THERE'S ALMOST NO HEALTHCARE AVAILABLE TO THEM.  SO

                    I HAVE NO PROBLEM SUPPORTING AN ELIMINATION OF A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION

                    WHILE I FAVOR THE MEDICAL SCIENCE DETERMINING IF SOMEBODY SHOULD BE

                    ELIGIBLE FOR A MEDICAL EXEMPTION.  THIS -- NOW, I LIVE IN A VERY

                    CROWDED CITY.  PEOPLE ARE ON THE TRAIN, VERY CLOSE NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

                    MY NIECE, WHO WAS PREGNANT LAST YEAR, WAS ON THE TRAIN EVERY DAY

                    GOING TO WORK -- IN FACT, SHE DIDN'T FEEL WELL -- IT WAS A LITTLE BIT EARLY,

                    BUT SHE DIDN'T FEEL WELL, AND SHE DECIDED TO LEAVE WORK AND SHE TOOK A

                    3:30 TRAIN AND GAVE BIRTH AT 9:00 THAT NIGHT.  SO SHE WAS ON THE TRAIN ALL

                    THE TIME THROUGHOUT HER PREGNANCY, WORRIED, WORRIED THAT SOMEONE ON

                    THE TRAIN, ANYONE ON THE TRAIN, COULD FEEL THAT IT WAS OKAY THAT THEY NOT

                    HAVE PROPER VACCINATIONS, EXPOSING HER AND HER UNBORN CHILD TO A

                    POTENTIAL ILLNESS THAT COULD BE A LIFELONG DAMAGE.  THAT'S WHY THE

                                         64



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    MARCH OF DIMES SUPPORTS THIS MEASURE.  SO HAVING THOSE EARLY

                    MEMORIES OF THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING ACCESS TO A POLIO VACCINE.

                    HAVING SEEN THE POTENTIAL -- NOT EVERY SCHOOL HAS A 90 PERCENT

                    VACCINATION RATE, AND BELIEVING BOTH IN SCIENCE AND IN DOING THINGS FOR

                    THE GREATER GOOD, I APPLAUD THE SPONSOR WHO HAS TAKEN AN INCREDIBLE

                    AMOUNT OF UNJUSTIFIED ABUSE, ABUSE FOR BELIEVING IN THE GREATER GOOD

                    AND THE PUBLIC AND THE NEED FOR PUBLIC HEALTH.

                                 NOW, WE USED TO HAVE PUBLIC HEALTH CLINICS.  THEY'RE

                    VERY FEW AND FAR BETWEEN, BUT I REMEMBER WHEN THEY EXISTED.  AND IT

                    WAS APPROPRIATE, APPROPRIATE FOR THIS MEASURE TO COME FORTH.

                                 AND DESPITE THE DISPLAY OF DISRESPECT THAT THE SPONSOR

                    FACED DURING THE HEALTH COMMITTEE MEETING, I BELIEVE ALL OF US HAVE A

                    RESPONSIBILITY, A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE GREATER GOOD.  TO PUBLIC HEALTH.

                    AND THAT IS WHY PEOPLE SHOULD BE PROUD TO SUPPORT, AS I AM, IN SUPPORT

                    OF THIS MEASURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER REYES:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. -- THANK YOU,

                    MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER REYES:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER REYES:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ.  SO, IF --

                    THIS BILL DOESN'T PREVENT SOMEBODY WHO HAS A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION OR A

                    RELIGIOUS BELIEF FROM REFUSING TO VACCINATE THEIR CHILD, CORRECT?  I MEAN,

                                         65



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THIS BILL DOESN'T SAY YOU MUST OR WE'LL ARREST YOU OR FINE YOU.  IT JUST

                    BANS THAT CHILD FROM --

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  HOLD ON, HOLD ON.  SOMEBODY'S

                    YELLING.  I CAN'T QUITE HEAR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  IT'S SOMEONE WHO NEEDS A

                    VACCINATION TO PROTECT THEM FROM OUR LEGISLATIVE DEBATE, I THINK.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, YOU CAN SOLVE THAT PROBLEM

                    VERY QUICKLY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THIS BILL BANS THE INDIVIDUAL WHO

                    DOESN'T HAVE A VACCINE FROM GOING TO PUBLIC, PRIVATE, PAROCHIAL

                    SCHOOLS, DAY CARES, CORRECT?  IT DOESN'T REQUIRE THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TO

                    HAVE THE VACCINATION?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NO.  NO ONE WOULD BE OR COULD BE

                    FORCED TO VACCINATE.  SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT, BUT THAT'S JUST NOT THE

                    CASE.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER REYES:  QUIET.  WE ARE -- WE

                    REMIND THE GALLERY TO PLEASE, NO CLAPPING.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THEY SIMPLY CAN'T SEND THEIR CHILD

                    TO ONE OF THE SCHOOLS YOU JUST MENTIONED.

                                 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS:  (ADDRESSING GALLERY)  AND

                    I WILL MAKE YOU LEAVE IF YOU DO IT AGAIN.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I -- I DON'T THINK HE'S TALKING -- I

                    DON'T THINK HE'S TALKING TO THE TWO OF US.  SO THEN WHAT HAPPENS IF A

                                         66



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    CHILD IS NOT VACCINATED?  HOW DO WE EDUCATE THEM, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY,

                    WE WANT EDUCATED NEW YORKERS.  HOW, THEN, ARE THEY EDUCATED?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, I -- I IMAGINE THAT WILL BE UP

                    TO THEIR PARENTS OR GUARDIAN AS TO WHAT CHOICES THEY HAVE AND WHAT THEY

                    WOULD CHOOSE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  DOES THE STATE THEN PAY FOR PRIVATE

                    TUTORING, FOR EXAMPLE?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  DOES THE STATE PAY FOR THEM TO

                    HOME SCHOOL?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO, WE JUST THROW THEM OUT OF

                    SCHOOL.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, I -- I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD

                    WANT TO LOOK AT IT THAT WAY.  I WOULD LOOK AT IT MORE LIKE THIS:  WE HAVE

                    PEOPLE, CHILDREN WHO CANNOT BE VACCINATED AND THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BE

                    PROTECTED FROM BEING EXPOSED TO DISEASES WHICH COULD KILL THEM.

                    THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH COMPROMISED IMMUNE SYSTEMS, PEOPLE WITH --

                    AND I'M TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN NOW -- PEOPLE WHO ARE RECEIVING

                    CHEMOTHERAPY, FOR EXAMPLE, OR AS WAS MENTIONED EARLIER, LITTLE BABIES

                    WHO SHOULDN'T BE VACCINATED BUT IN SOME CASES WERE FORCED TO

                    VACCINATE BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO VACCINATE THEIR CHILDREN,

                    WHOSE CHILDREN COULD HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  BUT GETTING BACK TO THE QUESTION OF

                    EDUCATION.  THE BOTTOM LINE IS IF THIS GOES THROUGH AND YOU HAD A

                                         67



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    SINCERE RELIGIOUS OPPOSITION TO VACCINATION AND YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO

                    VIOLATE YOUR RELIGIOUS TENETS, THEN WE BAN THOSE CHILDREN FROM PUBLIC,

                    PRIVATE, PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS AND DAY CARES, CORRECT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL -- WELL, MR. GOODELL, I'M NOT

                    GOING TO QUESTION PEOPLE'S RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.  BUT I WILL SAY THAT I'M NOT

                    AWARE OF ANYTHING IN THE TORA, THE BIBLE, THE KORAN OR ANYTHING ELSE

                    THAT WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU SHOULD NOT GET VACCINATED.  BUT PEOPLE ARE

                    ENTITLED TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE.  CALL IT RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IF

                    THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO CALL IT.  BUT IF YOU CHOOSE TO NOT VACCINATE YOUR

                    CHILD, THEREBY POTENTIALLY ENDANGERING OTHER CHILDREN BECAUSE YOU'VE

                    MADE THAT CHOICE EVEN THOUGH YOUR CHILD WILL BE PROTECTED BECAUSE

                    OTHER PEOPLE DO VACCINATE, CREATING THE HERD IMMUNITY THAT WE NEED, IF

                    YOU MAKE THAT CHOICE THAT YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S CHOOSING NOT TO SEND

                    YOUR KID TO SCHOOL.  NOT OTHER PEOPLE, AND NOT THE STATE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I SEE.  OKAY.  AND YOU HAD

                    MENTIONED THAT THE NUMBER OF RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS ARE ABOUT 0.7

                    PERCENT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT

                    I SAID.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, WHAT NUMBER -- SO,

                    STATEWIDE, OF THOSE WHO ARE OF SCHOOL --

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WHAT I SAID WAS THAT THERE WAS AN

                    INVERSE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE -- OF KIDS IN A

                    SCHOOL THAT ARE VACCINATED TO THE NUMBER OF RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS,

                    WHICH I THINK IS PRETTY OBVIOUS TO ANYBODY.  SO WE DO HAVE SCHOOLS IN

                                         68



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THE STATE WHERE THE COVERAGE FOR MMR VACCINE IS ACTUALLY LESS THAN 50

                    PERCENT.  AND THAT'S IN SCHOOLS WHERE OVER 72 PERCENT OF THE KIDS AREN'T

                    VACCINATED.  I'M SURE THOSE SCHOOLS ARE VERY FEW IN NUMBER.  BUT THE --

                    THE NUMBERS GO FROM A VERY HIGH GREATER THAN 95 PERCENT, AND IN THE

                    SCHOOLS WHERE THE RATE IS GREATER THAN 95 PERCENT, THE PERCENTAGE OF

                    STUDENTS ENROLLED WITH A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION IS LESS THAN 1 PERCENT.

                    BUT THAT'S ONLY IN THE CASE OF THE SCHOOLS WITH THE VERY HIGH

                    VACCINATION RATES.  BUT AS YOU GO DOWN TO LOWER AND LOWER RATES, THERE

                    ARE A GREATER NUMBER OF STUDENTS WHO -- WHO CLAIM THE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION, BUT I THINK THAT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE THE

                    CASE.  SO IT VARIES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, YOU KNOW THE NEW YORK

                    STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH MAINTAINS STATISTICS ON THE NUMBER OF

                    CHILDREN THAT ARE VACCINATED, THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN THAT ARE NOT

                    VACCINATED, THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN THAT CLAIM A MEDICAL EXEMPTION AND

                    THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN THAT CLAIM A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  AND THAT

                    DATA, WHICH WAS MAINTAINED THROUGH 2018, IS NOT ONLY STATEWIDE OR THE

                    CITY OR THE STATE, OUTSIDE THE CITY, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY BROKEN DOWN TO

                    INDIVIDUAL SCHOOLS.  BASED ON -- ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT DATA?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I HAVE SOME DATA BEFORE ME.  I

                    DON'T HAVE THE SCHOOL-BY-SCHOOL DATA.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO BASED ON THAT DATA, AM I

                    CORRECT, THEN, THAT STATEWIDE, OF ALL THE STUDENTS THAT ARE ENROLLED IN

                    NEW YORK STATE IN 2017-18 SCHOOL YEAR, 0.8 PERCENT OF THOSE STUDENTS

                    CLAIMED A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION FROM VACCINATION?

                                         69



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I DON'T BELIEVE THAT NUMBER IS

                    CORRECT AT ALL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO YOU THINK THEIR DATA IS

                    INCORRECT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I WOULD THINK THAT THE NUMBER OF

                    STUDENTS WHO'VE CLAIMED THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION IS HIGHER.  I'M

                    LOOKING AT THE DATA FROM THE NEW YORK -- FROM THE NEW YORK STATE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, AND THE RATE OF -- THE PERCENTAGE OF STUDENTS

                    ENROLLED WHO HAVE A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION IS GREATER THAN THAT NUMBER.

                    I'M NOT SAYING IT'S --

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, I MEAN, YOU SAID --

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  -- (INAUDIBLE) BUT I THINK IT'S

                    GREATER THAN THE NUMBER YOU JUST SUGGESTED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, YOU SAID IT WAS LESS THAN 1

                    PERCENT STATEWIDE.  I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE NUMBER YOU --

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS LESS THAN 1

                    PERCENT, YOU DID.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  AND AM I CORRECT THAT THE

                    MEDICAL EXEMPTION STATEWIDE IS 0.14 PERCENT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  LET ME CHECK.  I DON'T -- I DON'T

                    HAVE THE NUMBER OF MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS BEFORE ME, BUT I WILL SAY THAT

                    MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE NUMBER OF MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS ARE MANY,

                    MANY FEWER THAN THE NUMBER OF RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.  AND IF YOU GIVE

                    ME A SECOND... I THINK THE NUMBER OF MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS IS

                    APPROXIMATELY ONE-FIFTH THAT OF RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.  MAYBE EVEN LESS

                                         70



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THAN THAT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THAT -- THAT WOULD BE CONSISTENT

                    WITH THAT NUMBER.  NOW, YOU MENTIONED THE HERD IMMUNITY.  IS THAT

                    TYPICALLY 90 TO 95 PERCENT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NO, THAT'S TYPICALLY 95-97 PERCENT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND THEN DOES IT VARY, THEN, BY

                    DISEASE?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I BELIEVE HERD IMMUNITY, WE'RE

                    TALKING ABOUT VARIOUS DISEASES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  I APPRECIATE

                    YOUR COMMENTS AND INSIGHTS.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  YOU

                    MAY NOTICE THAT I -- I WEAR A -- A DIFFERENT PIN THAN MANY OF US.  IT'S A

                    ROTARY PIN.  AND I'VE BEEN A MEMBER OF ROTARY INTERNATIONAL FOR NEARLY

                    20 YEARS.  AND THE FOCUS OF ROTARY INTERNATIONAL, THEIR TOP PRIORITY

                    WORLDWIDE, WAS THE ERADICATION OF POLIO WITH VACCINATIONS.  AND I FELT

                    SO STRONGLY ABOUT THAT MISSION AND THE VALUE OF THAT MISSION, THAT MY

                    WIFE AND I HAVE DONATED LITERALLY THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO

                    ASSIST IN MAKING VACCINATIONS AVAILABLE WORLDWIDE TO ADDRESS POLIO.

                    AND SOME OF US WHO ARE A LITTLE BIT OLDER MAY EVEN HAVE FRIENDS WHO

                    SUFFERED FROM POLIO.  AND SO I'M NOT HERE TODAY TO ARGUE AGAINST THE

                                         71



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    EFFICACY OR THE VALUE OF VACCINES.  I NOT ONLY SUPPORT IT VERBALLY, WE'VE

                    SUPPORTED IT BY OPENING UP OUR OWN WALLET AND HELPING IN FUNDRAISING

                    EFFORTS AND OTHERS.  NOW, I AM AT THE SAME TIME MINDFUL THAT OUR

                    COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED BY MANY PEOPLE WHO CAME HERE SPECIFICALLY FOR

                    RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.  AND THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT I DON'T SHARE THE SAME

                    RELIGION AS EVERYONE ELSE.  AND -- AND THAT'S THE GREAT STRENGTH OF THE

                    UNITED STATES, IS WE HAVE A LOT OF DIVERSITY.  WE HAVE A LOT OF RELIGIOUS

                    DIVERSITY.  SO ALTHOUGH MY WIFE IS VEGETARIAN, AND SO SHE IS ALWAYS

                    EATING KOSHER, OR SOMETHING CLOSE TO IT - I KNOW THERE'S A SPECIAL

                    PROCEDURE - BUT I ENJOY PORK.  I DON'T INVITE MY JEWISH FRIENDS OVER FOR

                    FOR BACON AND EGGS, BUT I ENJOY PORK.  I ENJOY BEEF, BUT I DON'T SERVE IT

                    TO MY HINDU FRIENDS.  MY WIFE MAKES SURE I WORK HARD ON SATURDAY.

                    BUT I RECOGNIZE MY JEWISH FRIENDS CONSIDER THAT TO BE A SABBATH.  FOR

                    ME, I GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY.  I RECOGNIZE THAT BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS

                    HAVE SAVED COUNTLESS LIVES, BUT I ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT MY JEHOVAH

                    WITNESSES IN MY COMMUNITY ARE NOT WILLING TO TAKE A BLOOD TRANSFUSION

                    EVEN IF IT WOULD SAVE THEIR LIFE.  SO, WE'RE CALLED UPON TO BALANCE THESE

                    ISSUES.  THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT VACCINATIONS HAVE SAVED A LOT OF PEOPLE

                    A LOT OF PROBLEMS, AND PROBABLY HAVE SAVED HUNDREDS IF NOT HUNDREDS

                    OF THOUSANDS OF LIVES.  BUT DOES THAT MEAN THAT WHEN IT COMES TO

                    RELIGION WE ONLY HONOR THE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS THAT WE AGREE WITH?  THAT'S

                    A SCARY CONCEPT, ISN'T IT?  SO HOW DO WE BALANCE THIS?  ACCORDING TO

                    NEW YORK STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT DATA, LESS THAN 1 PERCENT OF THE

                    STUDENTS IN OUR SCHOOLS STATEWIDE HAVE CLAIMED A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.

                    IT'S 0.8 PERCENT.  NEW YORK CITY, BY THE WAY, IS 0.43 PERCENT, ABOUT

                                         72



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    HALF THE STATEWIDE AVERAGE.  AS MY COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT, THE CDC

                    AND THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT BOTH TELL US THAT IF YOU HAVE HERD IMMUNITY

                    -- YOU GET HERD IMMUNITY IF 95 TO 97 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE ARE

                    VACCINATED.  SO, WITH A VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS - AND THEY'VE BEEN

                    MENTIONED - WHERE YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR POCKET OR A PARTICULAR SCHOOL

                    THAT HAS A HIGH LEVEL OF UNVACCINATED STUDENTS, WITH THOSE EXCEPTIONS,

                    THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE TAKING A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION STATEWIDE

                    WOULD NOT AFFECT THAT HERD IMMUNITY.  THE PROBLEM WE'RE HAVING IS THAT

                    STATEWIDE, IT'S THE OTHER 3 OR 4 PERCENT WHO DON'T HAVE A MEDICAL

                    EXEMPTION OR A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, WHO JUST SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO DO

                    IT.  OR HAVEN'T GOTTEN AROUND TO DO IT OR WHATEVER.  THEY HAVEN'T TAKEN

                    ADVANTAGE OF THE VACCINATION.  THAT'S WHERE OUR PROBLEM IS.  SO, WHEN

                    WE'RE BALANCING FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS LIKE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WITH AN

                    IMPORTANT STATE INTEREST, WHICH IS MAINTAINING THE HEALTH OF OUR

                    POPULATION, THE SUPREME COURT HAS SUGGESTED THAT THE LEGISLATION

                    SHOULD BE NARROWLY CRAFTED TO ACHIEVE ITS PURPOSE.  A POINT MADE BY

                    ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES.  AND SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT RATHER THAN

                    ELIMINATE EVERYONE'S SINCERELY-HELD RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS STATEWIDE,

                    REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS HAS ANY PUBLIC HEALTH RAMIFICATIONS IN

                    CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, THAT WE INSTEAD FOCUS OUR EFFORTS ON THOSE SMALLER

                    AREAS WHERE YOU HAVE A CRITICAL MASS OF PEOPLE THAT AREN'T GETTING

                    VACCINATIONS.  AND AS I AM DEEPLY APPRECIATIVE OF MY COLLEAGUES'

                    COMMENTS THAT THOSE WHO AREN'T VACCINATED PRESENT A RISK TO OTHERS, I'M

                    ALSO MINDFUL THAT STATEWIDE OVER 90 PERCENT OF THE KIDS ARE VACCINATED.

                    WHICH MEANS STATEWIDE, OVER 90 PERCENT OF THE KIDS DON'T NEED TO

                                         73



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WORRY ABOUT GETTING THE MEASLES FROM A CLASSMATE BECAUSE THEY'RE

                    ALREADY VACCINATED.  SO FOR ME, BALANCING THOSE TWO OBJECTIVES, I WILL

                    CONTINUE TO GIVE MY PERSONAL CASH TO THE ROTARY CLUB AND OTHERS TO

                    MAKE SURE VACCINES ARE WIDELY AVAILABLE TO THOSE WHO WISH TO TAKE

                    THEM.  AT THE SAME TIME, I WILL OPPOSE A STATEWIDE BAN ON RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTIONS, RECOGNIZING THAT IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR STATE THOSE

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS DO NOT AFFECT THE HERD IMMUNITY LEVELS AND ONLY

                    INTERFERE WITH A PERSON'S GENUINELY-HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEF, WHETHER OR

                    NOT THAT RELIGIOUS BELIEF IS SHARED BY MYSELF.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. JAFFEE.

                                 MS. JAFFEE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WANTED TO

                    JUST TALK ABOUT THIS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE AND THE CONCERN THAT -- THAT I

                    HAVE.  AS A FORMER EDUCATOR, A MOM, A GRANDMOTHER, I KNOW HOW

                    ESSENTIAL IT IS FOR US TO CARE ABOUT OUR CHILDREN, OUR YOUTH, THEIR HEALTH

                    AND THEIR FUTURE.  AND THIS IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL.  THE MEASLES --

                    MEASLES IS A VERY SERIOUS DISEASE THAT USED TO BE SO COMMON IN THE

                    UNITED STATES.  ALL TOO OFTEN OUR YOUTH GOT THE MEASLES AND SUFFERED.

                    IT'S CAUSED BY A VIRUS IN THE AIR, AND IT'S REALLY QUITE DANGEROUS.  IT IS

                    ONE OF THE MOST CONTAGIOUS DISEASES.  FEVER AND RASH, COUGH, RUNNY

                    NOSE, EAR INFECTIONS.  INFLAMMATION IN THE BRAIN THAT SPREADS.

                    PNEUMONIA.  WHY WOULD WE WANT TO ALLOW OUR CHILDREN TO HAVE THAT

                    RISK AND TO BECOME SO ILL THAT COULD IMPACT THEM AS THEY MOVE

                    FORWARD?  LOSE THEIR HEARING, PERHAPS NOT BE ABLE TO REALLY THINK AND

                                         74



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WORK AS THEY USED TO.  IT'S VERY DANGEROUS.  AND THERE ARE SO MANY OF

                    CHILDREN WHO SUFFERED THIS FOR YEARS AND YEARS UNTIL WE HAD THE

                    VACCINATIONS THAT WERE -- BECAME AVAILABLE.  YOU LOOK BACK IN HISTORY,

                    MY FAMILY WAS IMPACTED NEGATIVELY.  MY GRANDMOTHER LOST HER HEARING.

                    SHE LIKE BECAME DEAF WHEN SHE AFTER -- SHE WAS A LITTLE GIRL AND SHE -

                    AND SHE GOT THE MEASLES.  OVER AND OVER AGAIN, YOU HEAR THESE STORIES.

                    WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THEM AND WE HAVE TO REALIZE THE TRUTH AND THE

                    INFECTIONS THAT OCCUR FOR SO MANY OF THE CHILDREN.  SOME OF THEM ARE

                    FORTUNATE, SOME -- SOME JUST -- THEY BECOME ILL FOR A LITTLE WHILE AND

                    THEY MOVE ON.  BUT TOO MANY BECOME VERY, VERY ILL AND REALLY ARE

                    IMPACTED AND THEIR FUTURE IS IMPACTED BY THE MEASLES.  AND THEN WE GOT

                    THE VACCINATIONS THAT BECAME AVAILABLE TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT OUR

                    CHILDREN.  THAT'S WHAT IS SO ESSENTIAL.  THE VACCINATIONS:  I KNOW THE

                    STORIES, I'VE HEARD THEM OVER AND OVER AGAIN.  VACCINATIONS, THE

                    SCIENTISTS IN THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE CAREFULLY

                    STUDIED ABOUT THE VACCINATIONS AND THEY HAVE NOT FOUND ANY LINK

                    BETWEEN AUTISM AND THE VACCINATION.  IT IS NOT THE TRUTH, AND WE HAVE TO

                    PUSH THAT ASIDE BECAUSE IT IS NOT ANYTHING THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN IN ALL

                    THE STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE.  BUT WHAT HAS BEEN PROVEN IS THAT

                    WHEN A CHILD IS VACCINATED THEY ARE PROTECTED.  THEY ARE PROTECTED FROM

                    AN ILLNESS THAT COULD IMPACT THEM FOREVER.  AND THEN IT COULD IMPACT

                    OTHERS.  JUST THINK ABOUT THE INFANTS THAT MAY BE NEARBY AND THAT WOULD

                    -- WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT -- THE -- THEIR LIFE AND THE IMPACT -- THE HEALTH

                    IMPACT ON THAT INFANT.  OR A -- A YOUNG ADULT OR A CHILD WITH ANOTHER

                    ILLNESS THAT MAY IMPACT THAT CHILD IN A VERY, VERY SERIOUS WAY.  OR THE

                                         75



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    ADULT WHO MIGHT BE PREGNANT, IN A VERY SERIOUS WAY.  WE ARE SO

                    FORTUNATE IN OUR SOCIETY THAT WE WERE ABLE TO -- THE SCIENTISTS THAT WERE

                    ABLE TO STUDY AND COME UP WITH A VACCINATION -- A VACCINE THAT COULD

                    PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM THIS VIRUS, FROM THIS HORROR.  IN MY DISTRICT,

                    HUNDREDS -- OVER 200, I THINK IT CAME UP -- THE NUMBER OF KIDS WHO

                    WERE NOT VACCINATED GOT THE MEASLES.  AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING WAS

                    THAT IT -- WHEN THEY WENT OUT TO THE STORES THEY WERE BEING -- THEY WERE

                    EXPOSING INFANTS AND PREGNANT WOMEN AND OTHERS WHO HAD -- WERE --

                    WERE MAYBE HAD A BAD COLD WHO THEN COULD BECOME ILL WHO MIGHT NOT

                    BE -- BEEN VACCINATED.

                                 OUR CHILDREN ARE OUR FUTURE.  WE NEED TO INVEST IN

                    THEIR LIVES IN A POSITIVE WAY, AND REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO MEDICAL

                    STUDIES.  PAY ATTENTION TO PHYSICIANS AND THE WORK THEY HAVE DONE.  PAY

                    ATTENTION TO THE SCIENTISTS.  AND THEN LOOK AT OUR COMMUNITY AND

                    PROTECT OUR CHILDREN.  PROTECT THEIR FUTURE.  ASSURE THAT THEY REMAIN

                    HEALTHY.  IT IS SO ESSENTIAL AND SO IMPORTANT.  I CAN TELL YOU THE STORIES

                    THAT I RECALL WHEN I WAS YOUNGER OF THE HORROR THAT OCCURRED WITH TOO

                    MANY OF OUR CHILDREN -- OF THE CHILDREN IN THE COMMUNITY WHO GOT THE

                    MEASLES.  ONE WOULD ASSUME, OH, THEY HAD THE MEASLES, THEY'RE GOING

                    TO BE FINE NEXT WEEK.  BUT TOO MANY BECAME SO ILL THAT IT IMPACTED THEIR

                    LIVES AND THE FUTURE OF THEIR LIVES.

                                 WE NEED TO STAND TOGETHER TO ASSURE THAT ALL OF THE

                    CHILDREN IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND OUR STATE ARE SAFE, REMAIN HEALTHY AND

                    WE PROTECT THEM.  AND THAT'S WHY THIS LEGISLATION IS SO ESSENTIAL.  IT WILL

                    PROVIDE SO MUCH SAFETY FOR OUR CHILDREN, ASSURING THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE

                                         76



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    TO, YOU KNOW, PROTECT -- THEY WILL BE PROTECTED FROM GETTING THE

                    MEASLES AND THEY'LL BE ABLE TO GO TO SCHOOL AND STAY HEALTHY AND NOT BE

                    IMPACTED.

                                 I WANT TO THANK OUR COLLEAGUE FOR SPONSORING THIS

                    LEGISLATION, AND LET'S MOVE FORWARD AND SUPPORT THIS AND SUPPORT OUR

                    CHILDREN.  THERE WERE TOO MANY KIDS THAT I -- WHEN I WAS TEACHING THAT

                    I KNOW WHEN THEY CAME TO CLASS AFTER THEY WERE ILL FOR A COUPLE OF

                    WEEKS VERY EARLY ON WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM, STORIES THAT WERE

                    DEVASTATING.  WE NEED TO STAND TOGETHER AND PROTECT OUR YOUTH.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. CAHILL.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ.  AND

                    BEFORE I BEGIN, LET ME ALSO THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS MEASURE BEFORE

                    THE HOUSE.  I THINK IT'S WELL WORTH OUR CONSIDERATION.  I DO HAVE, JEFF,

                    SOME TECHNICAL QUESTIONS AND A FEW OTHER QUESTIONS I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU

                    ABOUT VACCINATIONS GENERALLY AND OUR ROLE IN THE AREA OF VACCINATIONS.

                    SO, THE FIRST THING I WANT ASK YOU IS, WHERE DO VACCINATION LAWS COME

                    FROM?  ARE THEY -- HAVE THEY ALWAYS BEEN WITH US SINCE VACCINATIONS

                    EXISTED, OR WERE THEY A CREATION OF -- OF THIS LEGISLATURE AND OTHER

                                         77



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    LEGISLATURES AT SOME TIME IN THE PAST?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I -- I BELIEVE VACCINATION LAWS

                    HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A VERY LONG TIME.  THE VACCINATION FOR SMALLPOX I

                    BELIEVE CAME ABOUT AROUND THE YEAR 1800, A LITTLE BEFORE, AND AT SOME

                    POINT THERE WAS REGULATION WITH RESPECT TO THAT VACCINE.  BECAUSE FROM

                    THE VERY FIRST DAYS OF VACCINE, THERE WAS ALWAYS THAT VERY PARANOID,

                    CONSPIRATORIAL, ANTI-SCIENCE GROUP THAT -- THAT OPPOSED VACCINES.  I

                    THINK WE KNOW THAT THESE VACCINES SAVED UNTOLD MILLIONS OF LIVES.  SO

                    WE HAVE HAD LAWS FOR A VERY LONG TIME, WAY BEFORE ANY OF THE THINGS

                    WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  RIGHT.  AND JEFF, I -- I KNOW THAT THE

                    SECTIONS OF THE LAW THAT WE'VE BEEN REVIEWING OVER THE PAST SEVERAL

                    MONTHS AS YOU HAVE BEEN ADVANCING THIS LEGISLATION REVOLVE AROUND

                    MEDICAL AND RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS IS WHAT THE LAW LAID OUT.  ARE THERE

                    ANY OTHER EXEMPTIONS IN THE LAW FROM MANDATORY VACCINATIONS?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NOT IN NEW YORK STATE.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  OKAY.  ARE THERE ANY IN OTHER STATES,

                    THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THIS IS TO ATTEND SCHOOL, WE'RE

                    TALKING ABOUT.  THIS IS TO ATTEND SCHOOL.  THERE ARE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTIONS AND THERE ARE MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  OKAY.  SO -- SO THAT -- THAT ANTICIPATES

                    MY NEXT QUESTION.  WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE FAILURE OF A

                    FAMILY TO HAVE THEIR CHILDREN VACCINATED?  OR THE FAILURE OF AN

                    INDIVIDUAL TO BE VACCINATED?  WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES?

                                         78



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  IN ORDER TO ATTEND A SCHOOL OR A

                    DAY CARE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE CHILD VACCINATED.  SO, IF THE

                    CHILD'S NOT VACCINATED, THE CHILD WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ATTEND.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  YOU SAY A SCHOOL OR DAY CARE.  IS THAT

                    JUST PUBLIC SCHOOLS OR IS IT PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND PRIVATELY-RUN DAY CARE AS

                    WELL?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  ALL SCHOOLS.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  SO IF A RELIGION -- IF A RELIGION

                    ESTABLISHED A SCHOOL AND EVERYONE THAT ATTENDED THAT SCHOOL ADHERED TO

                    THAT FAITH, AND THAT FAITH HAD A DEEP-ROOTED PROHIBITION AGAINST

                    VACCINATIONS, UNDER YOUR BILL THAT SCHOOL COULD NOT EXIST?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, I'M NOT AWARE OF WHAT

                    RELIGION THAT WOULD BE, BUT THE SCHOOL COULD EXIST, BUT THE CHILDREN

                    WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE TO GO THERE UNLESS THEY WERE VACCINATED.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  I'M SORRY, I -- MR. SPEAKER, I DIDN'T

                    HEAR HIM.  THERE WAS AN INTERRUPTION.  COULD YOU REPEAT THAT, PLEASE?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.  I SAID I'M NOT AWARE OF WHAT

                    RELIGION THAT IS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THE CHILD WOULD HAVE TO BE

                    VACCINATED TO ATTEND SCHOOL UNLESS THERE WAS A MEDICAL EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  ANY SCHOOL?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  ANY SCHOOL.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  OKAY.  SO AGAIN, YOU'RE ANTICIPATING

                    MY QUESTIONS.  ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY ORGANIZED RELIGIONS THAT HAVE

                    STRICT PROHIBITIONS AGAINST VACCINATIONS?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I AM NOT.

                                         79



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. CAHILL:  HOW ABOUT THOSE FOLKS WHO EXPRESS

                    RELIGIOUS OR PHILOSOPHICAL OBJECTIONS THAT ARE NOT PART OF AN ORGANIZED

                    RELIGION BUT STILL BELIEVE THEM TO BE ROOTED IN THEIR FAITH, IN THEIR -- IN

                    THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEF SYSTEM?  HOW DOES OUR EXISTING LAW WORK -- OUR

                    EXISTING LAW WORK WITH REGARD TO THOSE FOLKS?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  ONE CAN SIMPLY CLAIM ESSENTIALLY

                    THAT IT'S AGAINST THEIR RELIGION.  THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT THE EXACT

                    WORDING BUT THAT'S THE IMPACT.  BUT AS I SAID, I'M NOT AWARE OF WHAT

                    RELIGION SPECIFICALLY BANS VACCINATIONS.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  BUT WHAT IS THE EXACT WORDING?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THE -- YOU WANT ME TO READ THE

                    SECTION THAT IS BEING DELETED?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  SURE.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I WILL.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  WELL, EXCERPT.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I HAVE A LOT OF PAPER HERE, SO GIVE

                    ME ONE SECOND.  DO YOU HAVE IT?  I HAVE IT.  I DO HAVE IT.  OKAY.  BEAR

                    WITH ME.  I COULD --  YOU COULD ASK OTHER QUESTIONS WHILE I'M LOOKING --

                    OH, NOW HERE IT IS.  OKAY.  AS IT SAYS ON THE BOARD THERE, SUBDIVISION 9

                    OF SECTION 2140, WHICH I EARLIER MENTIONED, OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW

                    -- AND MIND YOU, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, NOT THE

                    PUBLIC RELIGION LAW.  THIS IS THE HEALTH LAW.  THIS IS THE SECTION THAT

                    WOULD BE ELIMINATED:  THIS SECTION SHALL NOT APPLY TO CHILDREN WHOSE

                    PARENT, PARENTS OR GUARDIAN HOLD GENUINE AND SINCERE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS

                    WHICH ARE CONTRARY TO THE PRACTICES HEREIN, AND NO CERTIFICATE SHALL BE

                                         80



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    REQUIRED AS A PREREQUISITE TO SUCH CHILDREN BEING ADMITTED OR RECEIVED

                    INTO SCHOOL OR ATTENDING SCHOOL.  THAT'S THE SECTION THAT WOULD BE

                    ELIMINATED.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  SO IT -- IT DOES NOT SAY "PERSONAL

                    BELIEF," IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS "RELIGIOUS BELIEF."

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  JEFF, DO YOU

                    BELIEVE THAT WE WOULD BE OBLIGATED TO HAVE A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION OF

                    SOME SORT IN THE LAW, PERHAPS NOT ONE AS BROADLY INTERPRETED AS THAT

                    ONE?  DO YOU BELIEVE IT'S A SECTION OF LAW THAT WE MUST HAVE UNDER OUR

                    CONSTITUTIONAL OBLIGATIONS?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NO, NOT IN THE LEAST.  AND I -- I

                    WILL TELL YOU WHY.  AND I MENTIONED IT IN THE COMMITTEE MEETING.  THIS

                    IS FROM THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT, THIS IS THE DEFINITIVE RULING IN

                    THIS MATTER.  IT'S PRINCE V. MASSACHUSETTS.  THE SUPREME COURT TACKLED

                    THE ISSUES OF RELIGIOUS OR PHILOSOPHICAL EXEMPTIONS TO VACCINE

                    MANDATES.  IT CONCLUDED RELIGIOUS FREEDOM - AND THIS IS A QUOTE NOW -

                    DOES NOT INCLUDE THE LIBERTY TO EXPOSE THE COMMUNITY OR THE CHILD TO

                    COMMUNICABLE DISEASE OR THE LATTER TO ILL HEALTH OR DEATH.  SO THE

                    SUPREME COURT HAS RULED ON THIS, AND IT'S PRETTY CLEAR AND UNAMBIGUOUS

                    WHAT THE RULING IS.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  SO -- SO -- I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND YOUR

                    INTERPRETATION OF THAT, BUT I -- I --I INTERPRET IT SOMEWHAT MORE NARROWLY

                    THAN YOU DID IN THAT YOU SAY THAT THAT DECISION PRECLUDES US OF AN

                    OBLIGATION TO PROTECT RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WHEN IT COMES TO VACCINATION.

                                         81



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    I BELIEVE THAT THAT COURT DECISION SAYS THAT A STATE IS ENABLED -- A STATE

                    HAS THE AUTHORITY TO REGULATE THE PUBLIC HEALTH, AND IF THE PUBLIC HEALTH

                    IS IN DANGER, THEY CAN TAKE WHAT MIGHT OTHERWISE BE EXTRAORDINARY STEPS

                    EVEN IF THERE ARE RELIGIOUS CONNOTATIONS ASSOCIATED WITH IT.  THAT IS A

                    MUCH NARROWER VIEW OF WHAT THAT COURT DECISION SAYS THAN YOU HAVE,

                    BUT I -- I ACCEPT YOUR INTERPRETATION.  ACCEPTING YOUR INTERPRETATION THAT

                    IT'S NOT AN OBLIGATION TO HAVE A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, DO YOU THINK IT IS A

                    GOOD IDEA TO TRY TO FASHION A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION?  DO YOU THINK IT'S

                    SOMETHING WE OUGHT TO BE COGNIZANT OF -- AND -- AND I'M ASKING YOU

                    NOT JUST TO WEAR YOUR PUBLIC HEALTH HAT - WHICH CLEARLY, YOU'VE POINTED

                    OUT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING - BUT AS -- AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL SWORN TO

                    UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, DO YOU BELIEVE IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO

                    INCLUDE A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION OF SOME KIND OR SOME PROVISION THAT

                    WOULD ASSURE THE PROTECTION OF -- OF RELIGION?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I -- I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE A

                    GOOD IDEA BECAUSE I THINK THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE THAT WE SHOULD ALL

                    HAVE, ABOVE EVERYTHING, IS TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC HEALTH, PARTICULARLY THAT

                    OF CHILDREN.  I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO VIOLATE WHAT PEOPLE CONSIDER

                    THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, ALTHOUGH I HAPPEN TO PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT A

                    VERY SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF THE PEOPLE CLAIMING THE RELIGIOUS OBJECTION

                    ARE, IN FACT, EXERCISING A PERSONAL -- A PERSONAL OBJECTION THAT HAS

                    NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER WITH RELIGION, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY DATA TO

                    BACK THAT UP.  BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT EVEN -- EVEN DEALING WITH RELIGION,

                    THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE CANNOT ALLOW -- AS THIS SUPREME COURT DECISION

                    HAS SAID, WE CANNOT ALLOW PEOPLE TO ENDANGER OTHER PEOPLE.  WE CAN

                                         82



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    NOT ALLOW THE PUBLIC HEALTH TO BE JEOPARDIZED.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THANK YOU, JEFF.  I -- I DON'T DISAGREE

                    WITH YOU ON THE POINT THAT MANY, MANY PEOPLE, MAYBE EVEN THE VAST

                    MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, CERTAINLY THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE

                    CONTACTED MY OFFICE, 95 PERCENT OF WHOM ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY

                    ASSOCIATED WITH MY DISTRICT, ARE -- ARE NOT EXPRESSING RELIGIOUS VIEWS,

                    BUT ARE USING THE CURRENT RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION AS A SAFE HARBOR FOR THEIR

                    PERSONAL BELIEFS.  SO I -- I SHARE THAT OPINION WITH YOU, ALTHOUGH, AS --

                    AS MY -- THE REST OF MY COMMENTS WILL REVEAL, I DON'T SHARE ALL OF YOUR

                    VIEWS.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. DINOWITZ.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  I APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSES.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF PUBLIC

                    HEALTH, VACCINATIONS ARE INDISPUTABLY ONE OF THE MARVELS OF THE 20TH

                    CENTURY.  THEY RESULTED IN A DRAMATIC DROP IN CHILDHOOD AND INFANT

                    MORTALITY.  LET ME REPEAT THAT.  THEY HAVE RESULTED IN A DRAMATIC DROP

                    OF CHILDHOOD AND INFANT MORTALITY.  FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE 20TH

                    CENTURY TO THE END OF THE 20TH CENTURY, LIFE EXPECTANCY IN THIS COUNTRY

                    NEARLY DOUBLED.  THAT'S NOT SO ALL OVER THE WORLD.  AND ONE OF THE MAIN

                    REASONS IT'S NOT TRUE ALL OVER THE WORLD IS LOWER VACCINATION RATES

                    ELSEWHERE.  IN SOME NATIONS - AND I'LL MAKE THIS STATEMENT TWICE AS WELL

                    - IN SOME NATIONS IT IS JUST AS LIKELY THAT A CHILD WILL DIE THAN THAT THEY

                                         83



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WILL REACH ADULTHOOD.  IN SOME PLACES IT IS JUST AS LIKELY THAT A CHILD

                    WILL DIE RATHER THAN REACH ADULTHOOD.  AND THEN THERE'S THE OLDER FOLKS.

                    AS A SOCIETY, WE ARE OLDER AND WE'RE HEALTHIER AND WE'RE MORE FREE OF

                    THE VESTIGES OF COMMUNICABLE DISEASES THAN ANY TIME IN HISTORY.  POLIO,

                    A BULLET PEOPLE MY AGE -- AND LITERALLY MY AGE, STARTING THE YEAR I WAS

                    BORN -- A BULLET WE DODGED, DEBILITATED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING

                    SOME OF THE OLDER KIDS I GREW UP WITH AND OUR GREATEST PRESIDENT OF THE

                    UNITED STATES FOR ALL TIMES, FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT.  OTHER DISEASES

                    AND THEIR COMPLICATIONS AND THEIR MANIFESTATIONS ARE NO LONGER DAILY

                    HEADLINES IN THIS COUNTRY.  PULL OUT A NEWSPAPER FROM THE EARLY PART OF

                    THE 20TH CENTURY AND YOU WILL SEE STORIES OF PLAGUES IN THE UNITED

                    STATES OF AMERICA.  THEY DON'T EXIST ANYMORE, BUT YES, THERE ARE STILL

                    THOSE EPIDEMIC STORIES ELSEWHERE.  SO FROM A PUBLIC HEALTH PERSPECTIVE,

                    IN SPITE OF WHAT SELF-PROCLAIMED EXPERTS SAY TO THE CONTRARY, BY AND

                    LARGE FROM A PUBLIC HEALTH PERSPECTIVE, VACCINATIONS WORK.  ON THE

                    PERSONAL LEVEL, EVEN THOUGH MY DAUGHTERS ARE IN THEIR MID-30'S AND

                    THEY'RE MOTHERS THEMSELVES, I REMEMBER WHEN THEY WERE BORN.  AND I

                    REMEMBER DISCUSSIONS WITH THEIR MOM CONCERNING UNIQUE PERSONAL

                    HEALTH CIRCUMSTANCES IN OUR FAMILIES, ABOUT WHETHER A VACCINE WAS

                    RIGHT FOR THEM.  I HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO BE CLEAR.  I WAS UNSURE.  THEIR

                    MOTHER WAS CERTAIN.  OF COURSE, OUR GIRLS WERE GOING TO BE VACCINATED,

                    SHE SAID.  THEY WERE, AND THEY ARE HEALTHY AND THEY ARE SAFE AND THEY

                    HAD FULL CHILDHOODS, AND THEY ARE GREAT PARENTS THEMSELVES RIGHT NOW.

                    OTHERS HAD DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES.  FAMILY HEALTH CONCERNS WERE

                    GREATER.  HEALTH ISSUES WERE MORE PROMINENT OR MORE INEXPLICABLE.

                                         84



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    JUST AS MY GIRLS' MOM WAS ACTING OUT OF LOVE AND RESPONSIBILITY, SO

                    WERE THE MOMS AND DADS WHO DON'T WANT THEIR CHILDREN INOCULATED.  A

                    FEW, A VERY, VERY FEW HAVE DEEP-ROOTED BELIEFS BORN OF THEIR FAITH, AND

                    EVEN IF LOGIC TELLS THEM THAT THEIR KIDS WOULD BE BETTER OFF, THEIR FAITH

                    PROHIBITS THEM FROM TAKING THAT STATE -- THAT STEP.  EVEN IF THEY THINK IT

                    WOULD BE BETTER FOR THEIR KIDS, THEIR FAITH TELLS THEM THEY CAN'T DO IT.

                    AND JUST AS WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC HEALTH, WE

                    HAVE, I BELIEVE, A FUNDAMENTAL CONSTITUTIONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO NOT MAKE

                    LAWS ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

                                 I RESPECT AND APPLAUD THE SPONSOR FOR THE THOUGHTS

                    BEHIND THIS AND MANY OTHER MEASURES HE'S CHAMPIONED OVER HIS MANY

                    YEARS IN THIS HOUSE.  AND WHILE I SYMPATHIZE WITH THOSE WHO HAVE

                    LEGITIMATE HEALTH CONCERNS AND FEEL THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM PROVIDES NO

                    MEDICAL RECOURSE -- WHO FEEL THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM PROVIDES NO

                    MEDICAL RECOURSE, MY VOTE TODAY DOES NOT REFLECT A SENSE THAT THEY AND

                    NOT SOCIETY'S INTEREST SHOULD PREVAIL.  FREEDOM TO PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE

                    DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE CAN BLOCK HEALTH CLINICS.  FREEDOM OF SPEECH

                    DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU CAN SAY ANYTHING, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE WITHOUT

                    CONSEQUENCES.  AND FREEDOM OF RELIGION IS NOT A SAFE HARBOR FOR

                    PERSONAL PREFERENCES OR EVEN A SUBSTITUTE FOR SCIENTIFIC DISAGREEMENT,

                    LEGITIMATE OR NOT.  BUT THIS MEASURE HAS A FATAL FLAW, IN MY VIEW.  IT

                    MAKES NO PROVISIONS WHATSOEVER TO RESPECT DEEPLY-HELD, WELL-FOUNDED

                    RELIGIOUS BELIEFS THAT CON -- THAT CONFLICT WITH THIS PUBLIC HEALTH

                    OBLIGATION.  IT DOESN'T EVEN TRY.  EVEN THOUGH I SUPPORT THE GOALS OF THIS

                    BILL, I FIND IT MY OBLIGATION TO MAKE NO LAW PROHIBITING THE FREE

                                         85



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    EXERCISE OF RELIGION.  THE FIRST COMMITMENT WE EVER MADE WHEN WE

                    WALKED IN THIS ROOM, AND THAT CONSTITUTIONAL PROHIBITION --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. CAHILL.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  --  TELLS ME, AND IN FACT, ALL OF US TO

                    VOTE NO.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PLEASE.

                                 MR. SAYEGH.

                                 MR. SAYEGH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. SAYEGH:  MR. SPEAKER, AND I WANTED TO

                    EXPLAIN MY POSITION ON THE BILL.  I SERVE ON THE HEALTH COMMITTEE, AND

                    ON THE HEALTH COMMITTEE I MADE A POINT OF EXPRESSING CONCERNS ABOUT

                    THE BILL.  AND MY OPINION REFLECTED MY LONGSTANDING COMMITMENT AS AN

                    ATTORNEY TO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.  AND I BELIEVE IN INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES

                    AS AN EDUCATOR ALLOWING PARENTS TO MAKE A CHOICE WITH REGARD TO THE

                    BEST INTERESTS OF THEIR CHILDREN.  I ALSO AGREE WITH MANY OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES THAT HAVE DETERMINED THAT A SERIOUS CONDITION EXISTS THAT

                    REALLY IMPACTS THE ENTIRE STATE AND POSSIBLY THE ENTIRE NATION.  AND I AM

                    SOMEONE THAT HAS FIVE CHILDREN THAT HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.  AND I DO

                    AGREE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF VACCINATIONS.  BUT AS EXPLAINED BY MANY OF

                    MY COLLEAGUES, I HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME WITH THE ISSUE OF RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTIONS BEING TAKEN AWAY.  THAT REALLY DEFRAYS ON INDIVIDUAL

                    RIGHTS, AND AT THE SAME TIME IMPACTS INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES.  I'VE URGED

                                         86



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    EARLY ON TWO VERY IMPORTANT POINTS, INFORMATION THAT I THINK ALL OF US

                    NEEDED TO HAVE TO REALLY MAKE A DECISION ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC.

                    ONE WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT MUNICIPALITIES AND GOVERNMENT IN GENERAL

                    TOOK EVERY PRECAUTION TO REALLY MONITOR AND TRY TO GET RID OF THIS SERIOUS

                    PROBLEM.  I HAVEN'T BEEN GIVEN PERSONALLY THAT ADEQUATE PROOF.  AND

                    FURTHERMORE, FOR ME TO TURN AGAINST INDIVIDUAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL AND

                    RELIGIOUS RIGHTS, I NEEDED TO SEE THAT WE HAD A SERIOUS CONDITION ON OUR

                    HANDS.  MANY OF US TALK ABOUT EPIDEMICS.  FOR SOME OF US, WE'VE

                    REACHED THAT POINT, FOR SOME OF US WE TALK ABOUT THE NEED TO PREVENT.

                    BUT THIS IS A DRASTIC DETERMINATION WE WILL MAKE.  AND ON THE HEALTH

                    COMMITTEE WHEN I MADE MY POSITION KNOWN OF BEING AT THIS TIME

                    AGAINST THIS BILL, I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS THE DECISIVE VOTE OF WHETHER THIS

                    WOULD COME TO THE OVERALL BODY HERE BEFORE US.  AND AS SOMEONE THAT

                    VALUES NOT ONLY THE RIGHT OF THE MAJORITY AND THE RIGHT OF THE MINORITY,

                    BUT THE RIGHT AND OPPORTUNITY TO PRACTICE DEMOCRACY AND ALLOW US TO

                    TAKE THESE SERIOUS ISSUES BEFORE US BEFORE THE ENTIRE BODY.  AND I WAS

                    NOT FOR ALLOWING MY VOTE OR MY OPINION TO BECOME A DECISIVE VOTE THAT

                    WOULD DISALLOW THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE TO BE DECIDED AND DETERMINED BY

                    THIS ENTIRE BODY.  AS I SAID, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE, AND MANY OF US

                    HAVE DIFFERENT VARYING DEGREES OF CONCERNS FROM INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS TO

                    PARENT RIGHTS TO KIDS BEING LEFT OUT OF SCHOOL, TO THE NEED TO VACCINATE

                    AND THE NEED TO PROTECT THE GENERAL PUBLIC AT-LARGE.  THEREFORE, I HOPE

                    THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE WE CAN VOICE OUR OPINIONS AND LOOK AT THE

                    VARIOUS AND VARYING DEGREES OF CONCERN THAT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US

                    HAS, AND AT THE END OF THIS SESSION MAKE A DECISION THAT, AGAIN, IS IN THE

                                         87



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    BEST INTERESTS OF OUR CHILDREN AND OUR COMMUNITIES AT-LARGE.

                                 I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST THIS ISSUE, BUT I ENCOURAGE YOU

                    TO THINK THIS OUT AND MAKE THE BEST DECISION IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF OUR

                    COMMUNITY AT-LARGE, AND KEEP IN MIND OF WHAT WE SPOKE ABOUT:  IS IT

                    SERIOUS ENOUGH - AND EVERYBODY HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION - IS IT SERIOUS

                    ENOUGH AT THIS TIME TO TAKE AWAY RELIGIOUS AND INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS?  KEEP

                    THAT IN MIND.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PLEASE.

                                 MR. ABINANTI.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I VERY

                    MUCH APPRECIATE THE THOUGHTS OF MY COLLEAGUES ON THIS BILL.  AND I

                    THINK WE'VE HAD A VERY SERIOUS, RATIONAL DISCUSSION.  THERE IS A LOT

                    INVOLVED, A LOT FOR US TO THINK ABOUT.  BUT LET'S START OFF WITH WHAT THIS IS

                    NOT ABOUT.  THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE VACCINES.

                    THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER THERE'S GOOD SCIENCE OR JUNK SCIENCE OR

                    WHATEVER.  IT'S NOT ABOUT VACCINES AT ALL.  IT'S ABOUT RELIGIOUS RIGHTS.  IT'S

                    ABOUT WHETHER NEW YORK STATE, WHICH FOR YEARS HAS PROTECTED

                    RELIGIOUS RIGHTS, WILL TAKE THE DRASTIC STEP OF REMOVING FROM OUR

                    STATUTES NEW YORK'S IMPLEMENTATION OF THE UNITED STATES

                    CONSTITUTION'S FIRST AMENDMENT TO EXERCISE A RELIGIOUS BELIEF WITH

                    RESPECT TO VIOLATING THE INTEGRITY OF YOUR BODY.  THIS IS ABOUT WHETHER

                    SOMEONE CAN SAY, MY BODY IS INVIOLATE.  I BELIEVE THAT DEEPLY AND

                    FERVENTLY.  MY BODY IS INVIOLATE, AND YOU DON'T HAVE, AS A GOVERNMENT,

                                         88



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THE RIGHT TO TAKE THAT RIGHT AWAY.  IT'S ABOUT OUR IMPLEMENTATION OF THE

                    FIRST AMENDMENT THROUGH THE 14TH AMENDMENT WHERE WE, AS A STATE,

                    HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO TREAT EVERYONE EQUALLY WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION.

                    IT'S ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO TELL SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAT THEY HAVE

                    CARTE BLANCHE AUTHORITY TO WITHHOLD FROM CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL STUDENTS

                    THE RIGHT TO BE EDUCATED ALONGSIDE OTHERS BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGIOUS

                    BELIEFS.  SO WE'RE SAYING THAT IF YOU FERVENTLY BELIEVE THAT YOUR BODY IS

                    INVIOLATE AND GOVERNMENT CAN'T TELL YOU THAT IT SHOULD BE VIOLATED, THAT

                    GOVERNMENT DOESN'T CONTROL YOUR BODY, THAT YOU HAVE A GOD-GIVEN

                    RIGHT TO CONTROL YOUR OWN BODY, THAT YOU CAN'T BE EDUCATED.  THAT'S WHY

                    WE'VE HAD THIS PROVISION ALL OF THESE YEARS.  AND NOW, FOR WHATEVER

                    REASON, WE WANT TO TAKE IT AWAY.  ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES MADE THE VERY

                    VALID POINT THAT WE DO HAVE A RIGHT TO IMPINGE ON DIFFERENT PEOPLE'S

                    CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.  BUT TO DO THAT, THERE MUST BE A COMPELLING STATE

                    INTEREST.  AND I WANT TO RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST THAT THAT COMPELLING STATE

                    INTEREST CANNOT JUST BE SOME THEORETICAL BELIEF THAT WE'D BE BETTER OFF

                    ONE WAY THAN ANOTHER; THAT WE HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT RIGHT NOW THE

                    EXERCISE OF THAT RELIGIOUS BELIEF IS AFFECTING PUBLIC HEALTH.  AND THIS

                    BILL, NO MATTER HOW WELL-MEANING IT IS, IS BASED ON THE ERRONEOUS

                    ASSUMPTION THAT THE EXERCISE BY SOME 20,000 PEOPLE IN OUR STATE -- OR

                    MAYBE 25,000 PEOPLE -- OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEF WHEN IT COMES TO THE

                    VIOLATION OF THEIR RIGHT IS SOMEHOW ENDANGERING THE PUBLIC SPACE, IS

                    SOMEHOW ENDANGERING THE PUBLIC.  AND I WANT TO RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST

                    WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                         89



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 BUT LET'S GO BACK -- GUYS, QUIET, PLEASE.  RESPECT THE

                    ASSEMBLY AND THE WAY IT PROCESSES.

                                 WHAT IS RELIGION?  WELL, WE'VE HEARD THAT SOME PEOPLE

                    BELIEVE IT'S ONLY AN ORGANIZED RELIGION AND MUST -- AND SOMEHOW WE

                    HAVE TO TIE THOSE BELIEFS, WHATEVER THEY ARE, TO AN ORGANIZED RELIGION.

                    BUT WE CAN ARGUE OVER WHAT ORGANIZED RELIGIONS BELIEVE WITH RESPECT

                    TO VACCINATIONS.  THERE HAVE BEEN PROCLAMATIONS BY THE CATHOLIC

                    CHURCH, THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH AND EVEN THE -- IN SOME MUSLIM

                    CHURCH -- SOME MUSLIM.... INSTITUTIONS, ALL WARNING PEOPLE ABOUT TAKING

                    VACCINATIONS BECAUSE THEY MAY CONTAIN PIECES OF ABORTION OR OF FETUSES

                    OR PIECES OF -- OF WHATEVER.  BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.  JAMES

                    MADISON ONCE SAID, "RELIGION OF EVERY MAN MUST BE LEFT TO THE

                    CONVICTION AND CONSCIENCE OF EVERY MAN.  AND IT IS THE RIGHT OF EVERY

                    MAN TO EXERCISE HIS RELIGION AS THESE MAY DICTATE."  SO IT IS NOT UP TO US

                    TO DETERMINE WHETHER SOMEONE IS PROPERLY EXERCISING THAT RELIGIOUS

                    RIGHT.  AND BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE MAY ABUSE THAT, THAT'S NOT A REASON TO

                    DO AWAY WITH THIS PROTECTION FOR THAT RIGHT.  IF SOME PEOPLE ARE SEEN TO

                    BE ABUSING THAT, LET'S SET UP A PROCESS TO ENSURE THAT NOBODY'S ABUSING

                    THAT.  AND, IN FACT, WE HAVE A PROCESS.  WE HAVE SCHOOL DISTRICTS NOW,

                    AND WE HAVE LOTS OF EXPERIENCE WHERE SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVE BEEN

                    REJECTING PROPOSED RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.  BUT THE POINT BEFORE US

                    TODAY IS THE GENERAL ISSUE, SHOULD NEW YORK ALLOW FOR PEOPLE WHO DO

                    QUALIFY, THE RIGHT TO EXERCISE THEIR RELIGION AS THEY SEE FIT.

                                 NOW, HOW DO WE COME TO A CONCLUSION THAT WE SHOULD

                    -- THAT WE HAVE A COMPELLING STATE INTEREST TO BURDEN THESE DEEPLY-HELD

                                         90



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    RELIGIOUS BELIEFS?  WELL, WE ALL SEEM TO AGREE THAT WE NEED TO PROTECT

                    PUBLIC HEALTH.  BUT AS I MENTIONED A FEW MOMENTS AGO, I HAVE HEARD

                    NOTHING THAT TELLS ME THAT THE CURRENT OUTBREAK WAS CAUSED OR IN ANY

                    WAY RELATED TO ANYONE WITH A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  THERE HAS NOT BEEN

                    ONE INSTANCE THAT HAS BEEN POINTED OUT TO US THAT ANYONE WITH A

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION HAD MEASLES DURING THE LAST OUTBREAK.  AND THE

                    NUMBERS WE'VE HEARD FROM VARIOUS COLLEAGUES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS OF LESS THAN ONE PERCENT OF ALL OF THE STUDENTS IN

                    THE STATE.  WELL, THERE'S ANOTHER 5, 6 PERCENT OUT THERE WHO ARE JUST NOT

                    GETTING VACCINATED.  THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM WITH OUR LAW.  THAT'S A

                    PROBLEM WITH OUR HEALTH SYSTEM.  OUR DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS PLENTY

                    OF TOOLS AVAILABLE TO THEM.  HAS ANYBODY CITED ANYTHING FROM THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH THAT SAYS THEY NEED THIS LEGISLATION?  IS THIS JUST A

                    COVER FOR A FAILURE TO CONVINCE PARENTS THAT THEY SHOULD, IN FACT -- THAT

                    THEY SHOULD, IN FACT, GET VACCINATED?  FORTUNATELY, THERE HAVE BEEN NO

                    DEATHS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ZEBROWSKI, WHY

                    DO YOU RISE?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  WILL MR. ABINANTI YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ABINANTI, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  MR. SPEAKER, WHEN I'M DONE, I'D

                    BE PLEASED TO YIELD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ABINANTI REFUSES

                    TO YIELD.

                                         91



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  SO WE'VE HEARD ABOUT AN OUTBREAK.

                    NOW, IT'S BEEN REFERRED TO AS AN EPIDEMIC, OR A PROBLEM.  WELL, WE'RE

                    HERE DEALING WITH LAW.  AND THERE WAS A SUPREME COURT JUDGE IN

                    ROCKLAND COUNTY WHO ACTUALLY DEALT WITH THE DECLARATION OF

                    EMERGENCY BY THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE OF ROCKLAND COUNTY.  AND THAT

                    SUPREME COURT JUDGE SAID ROCKLAND COUNTY HAS SEEN 166 CASES OF

                    MEASLES IN A POPULATION OF ROUGHLY 330,000 PEOPLE.  HE SAID AS A

                    MATTER OF LAW THAT'S NOT AN EPIDEMIC.  AND I WANT TO SUGGEST TO YOU THAT

                    900 CASES OR 1,000 CASES IN THE STATE NEW YORK WHERE WE HAVE 20,000

                    -- 20 MILLION PEOPLE, THAT'S NOT AN EPIDEMIC.  USING THE SAME STANDARD

                    AS THE UNITED -- AS THE SUPREME COURT JUDGE USED.

                                 THERE'S ALSO A -- AN ASSUMPTION UNDERLYING THIS

                    LEGISLATION THAT BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, THEREFORE,

                    THEY ARE NOT VACCINATED.  THAT IS NOT TRUE.  MANY HAVE COME TO THE

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION QUESTION AFTER VACCINATIONS.  THERE ARE MANY

                    CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN VACCINATED FOR MEASLES, MUMPS AND RUBELLA

                    WHO NOW HAVE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.  THERE'S ALSO A WRONGFUL

                    ASSUMPTION THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT VACCINATED, YOU ARE CONTAMINATED.

                    YOU ARE CONTAGIOUS.  YOU ARE A CARRIER OF WHATEVER DISEASE IT IS.  THAT

                    IS ALSO NOT TRUE.  AS WE NOTED BEFORE, WE'VE YET TO SEE ONE CASE OF

                    SOMEONE WITH A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION WHO CAME DOWN WITH THE MEASLES

                    DURING THIS LAST OUTBREAK.  IN SHORT, I WANT TO SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE SEEN

                    NOTHING THAT JUSTIFIES OUR ELIMINATING A RARELY USED RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION.

                                 AND I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED BY THE IMPLICATIONS OF WHAT

                                         92



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WE'RE DOING HERE.  THERE IS A NATIONAL DEBATE GOING ON RIGHT NOW ABOUT

                    WHETHER A WOMAN SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONTROL HER BODY.  AND AS THE

                    ATTORNEY FOR WESTCHESTER COALITION FOR 20 YEARS -- 18 YEARS, PRO BONO --

                    I AM VERY STRONGLY PRO-CHOICE.  AND I HAVE ARGUED VERY STRONGLY THAT

                    GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT TELLING A WOMAN WHAT TO DO WITH HER BODY.

                    AND WE ARE TALKING NOW ABOUT SOME VERY FORWARD-LOOKING LEGISLATION,

                    TRYING TO DECIDE SHOULD WE ALLOW SURROGACY, AND HOW DOES THAT -- HOW

                    DOES THAT IMPACT THE RIGHTS OF A WOMAN?  AND THAT'S A DISCUSSION.

                    SOME PEOPLE SAY IT PUTS THEM INTO SLAVERY.  OTHERS SAY NO, IT FREES

                    THEM.  BUT THE QUESTION IS, HOW BEST TO EMPOWER A WOMAN TO USE HER

                    BODY?  AND THEN WE TALK ABOUT SO MANY OTHER AREAS.  WE'RE TALKING

                    PERHAPS ABOUT DECRIMINALIZING PROSTITUTION.  NO MATTER WHAT YOUR VIEW

                    IS ON THAT, THE ISSUE IS, HOW DO WE ALLOW A WOMAN TO CONTROL HER BODY?

                    WHY ARE WE NOW SAYING THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY CONCERNED THAT

                    GOVERNMENT IS INFRINGING ON THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, WHY ARE WE NOW

                    SAYING IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THEY GET TO CONTROL THEIR BODY?  SOME

                    WILL SAY, WELL, THEY'RE ENDANGERING OTHERS AND SO THAT OVERRIDES THIS

                    ISSUE.  THAT'S A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT ALL OF THE

                    OTHER ISSUES WE'RE LOOKING AT.  AND AS WE'VE SEEN, WE'VE SEEN NO

                    EVIDENCE - AND I'LL REPEAT IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN - NO EVIDENCE THAT

                    ANYONE WITH A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION IN ANY WAY HAS ENDANGERED ANYONE

                    ELSE.  SO I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS LEGISLATION.  I THINK THERE ARE

                    BETTER ANSWERS TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE FACING WITH THIS

                    SPIKE -- IN THIS ONE-TIME SPIKE.  YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT

                    THAT WE'RE TRYING TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE HERD WHO ARE

                                         93



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    VACCINATED.  BUT THIS DOES NOTHING ABOUT ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO VISIT OUR

                    COUNTRY.  AND I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT'S HOW THE LATEST OUTBREAK CAME,

                    BECAUSE SOMEBODY CAME FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE

                    WORLD.  AND IT DOES NOTHING ABOUT ALL OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS IN OTHER

                    WAYS THAT MEASLES, FOR EXAMPLE, OR OTHER -- OTHER-- OTHER DISEASES CAN

                    BE SPREAD.  IN FACT, I HEARD ALL OF THESE NUMBERS ABOUT UNVACCINATED IN

                    SCHOOLS.  AND YET THERE'S BEEN NO INDICATION THAT IN ANY OF THOSE

                    SCHOOLS THERE WERE ANY CASES OF MEASLES.  SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL OF

                    THESE NUMBERS GOING AROUND.  NONE OF THEM, NONE OF THEM RELATED TO

                    THE ISSUE BEFORE US.  YOU KNOW, THERE'S EVEN A CASE -- AND IT'S

                    INTERESTING TO SEE HOW PEOPLE GET STAMPEDED.  JUST RECENTLY, NEW

                    HAMPSHIRE -- WAS IT NEW HAMPSHIRE?  YES, NEW HAMPSHIRE, ON THE

                    BASIS OF ONE CASE ELIMINATED THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.  NOW IT TURNS OUT

                    THAT ON THAT ONE CASE IT WASN'T A CASE OF MEASLES.  STATE OFFICIALS SAID

                    RECENTLY THAT LAB RESULTS SHOW THAT THE LIVE ATTENUATED MEASLES, MUMPS,

                    RUBELLA VACCINE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD'S SYMPTOMS.  SO THE

                    VACCINE ITSELF WAS PRESENTED IN THE CHILD AS IF THE CHILD HAD MEASLES.

                    SO I WANT TO SUGGEST THAT WE BE VERY CAREFUL, TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHERE

                    WE ARE.  OUR VACCINATION RATES IN NEW YORK ARE HIGH AND HAVE BEEN

                    STEADY YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SIR, YOUR 15 MINUTES

                    ARE UP.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  SO I JUST COME TO THE CONCLUSION --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SIR, YOUR MINUTES ARE

                    UP.

                                         94



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THANK YOU, SIR.  I WILL COME BACK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MORINELLO

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    THERE'S BEEN SOME ELOQUENT DISCUSSIONS AND COMMENTS ON BOTH SIDES.

                    I HAVE A FEW SIMPLE COMMENTS.  IT APPEARS THAT THEY'RE SAYING

                    VACCINATIONS WORK.  WELL, IF THEY WORK, WHAT IS THE FEAR?  THERE -- IT'S

                    REPORTED THAT THERE HAS ONLY BEEN .000046 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION

                    THAT HAS CONTRACTED MEASLES.  AND THESE WERE ALL IN ONE AREA, AND THEY

                    HAVE COME FROM SOMEONE WHO WENT FROM A DIFFERENT COUNTRY TO THIS

                    COUNTRY.  IF VACCINES WORK, THE STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT UNLESS YOU'RE

                    IN THE MIDDLE OF AN EPIDEMIC, EXPOSURE TO ONE INDIVIDUAL THAT IS NOT

                    VACCINATED THAT HAS MEASLES BY SOMEONE WHO IS VACCINATED WILL NOT

                    CONTRACT THE DISEASE.

                                 NEXT, PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT AND AN OBLIGATION TO THEIR

                    CHILDREN.  IF THEY ACT RECKLESSLY, THERE ARE CRIMINAL ACTIONS THAT WE CAN

                    TAKE.  BUT AT SOME POINT I WANT TO PRESENT TO THIS BODY THAT WE HAVE TO

                    STOP AT THE FRONT DOOR OF PEOPLE'S INDIVIDUAL HOMES.  THIS BODY SEEMS

                    TO WANT TO START REGULATING AND LEGISLATING FOR EVERYTHING THAT CAN

                    HAPPEN.  I GREW UP IN AN ERA WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE AS MANY RULES, WE

                    DIDN'T HAVE AS MANY LAWS, WE DIDN'T HAVE AS MANY FEARS, OKAY?  AND

                    THINGS SEEMED TO WORK OUT FINE.  I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE

                    RESPONSIBILITY WE HAVE TO PUT ON INDIVIDUALS.  BUT ON THIS PARTICULAR

                    ISSUE, TO TAKE THIS MUCH TIME IN A STATE THAT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE IS

                    CRUMBLING, OUR BUDGET IS EXCESSIVE, OUR SPENDING IS OUT OF CONTROL, FOR

                    .0006 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION IS ABSOLUTELY A WASTE OF TAXPAYER

                                         95



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    DOLLARS.  I THINK WE HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO LOOK AT.  I'M NOT

                    SAYING HEALTH IS NOT IMPORTANT, BUT WHAT I AM SAYING IS, LET'S START

                    GETTING OUR PRIORITIES FOR OUR TAXPAYERS.  LET'S LEAVE INDIVIDUAL

                    FREEDOMS ALONE.  AND IF WE ATTACK RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AND IT'S AN

                    INDIVIDUAL'S PERSONAL RIGHT, THEN HOW CAN WE SAY WE CAN'T CONTROL A

                    WOMAN'S BODY?  THIS -- THIS BODY HERE HAS ALWAYS SAID LEAVE AN

                    INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT ALONE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  EH-HMM-HMM.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 MR. JACOBSON.

                                 MR. JACOBSON:  ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. JACOBSON:  I THINK -- TODAY I WASN'T GOING TO

                    SPEAK ON THIS, BUT I THINK WE DELVED INTO BIZARRO WORLD, AND I THINK IT'S

                    IMPORTANT THAT WE GET THINGS BACK TO REALITY HERE.  WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

                    THE PUBLIC HEALTH.  I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN

                    THE PUBLIC HEALTH.  NOW, ALL RIGHTS UNDER THE CONSTITUTION ARE LIMITED.

                    NONE ARE ABSOLUTE.  OF COURSE YOU CAN'T YELL "FIRE" IN A THEATER.  AND

                    WHEN IT COMES TO PARENTAL RIGHTS, THERE ARE LIMITATIONS.  WE DON'T ALLOW

                    SPANKING, USING A BELT WITH NAILS IN IT.  WE HAVE RULES WHAT'S

                    CONSIDERED HUMANE AND NOT HUMANE.  AND THAT ABSURD, ABSURD ANALOGY

                    TO A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A ONE-YEAR-OLD.  A

                    ONE-YEAR-OLD HAS NO CHOICE.  A ONE-YEAR-OLD WANTS TO LIVE AND SO FORTH.

                    YOU CAN'T SAY THAT WE'RE -- WE'RE VIOLATING THAT ONE-YEAR-OLD'S RIGHT TO

                                         96



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    CHOOSE TO HAVE MEASLES.  NOW, I WAS -- I WAS -- VERY REFRESHING TO HEAR

                    THAT ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE IS -- WANTS TO

                    GET RID OF POLIO.  WELL, I THINK WE SHOULD DO THAT AS WELL.  IF THIS WAS

                    HAPPENING IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, IF THEY WERE DEBATING WHETHER TO HAVE

                    THESE VACCINATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND AND ELIMINATED SO MANY

                    DISEASES, IF THIS WAS HAPPENING IN ANOTHER COUNTRY YOU WOULD HAVE

                    CALLED THAT COUNTRY BARBARIC.  YOU WOULD SAY THEY'RE OUT OF THE DARK

                    AGES.  WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT COUNTRY, WHY AREN'T THEY FOLLOWING THE

                    SCIENCE?

                                 NOW, EVEN RELIGION, EVEN RELIGION IS NOT ABSOLUTE.  IF

                    THERE WAS A RELIGION OR IN THE NAME OF RELIGION PEOPLE DECIDE THAT WE'RE

                    NOT GOING TO -- WE'RE NOT GOING TO SELL YOUR PRODUCTS TO THOSE OF A

                    DIFFERENT RACE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEIR RELIGION SAYS, WE DON'T ALLOW

                    THAT.  IF -- IF A CHURCH, SYNAGOGUE, MOSQUE OR ANY HOUSE OF WORSHIP IS

                    OPERATING IN SUCH A WAY TO CAUSE A PUBLIC NUISANCE, WE DON'T ALLOW

                    THAT.  IF THERE WAS A RELIGIOUS PRACTICE THAT SAID THAT WE HAVE TO BURN

                    TIRES, OR WE HAVE TO POUR CHEMICALS INTO THE RIVER OR THE STREAM, WE

                    DON'T ALLOW THAT.  SO EVERYTHING HAS SOME LIMITS.  I THINK THE

                    EXPLANATION OF -- THAT WAS GIVEN BY THE SPONSOR THAT REALLY THIS

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION IS MORE OF A PERSONAL EXEMPTION MORE THAN

                    ANYTHING ELSE, BUT EVEN IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, I

                    DON'T THINK THAT ANY RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION SHOULD BE USED TO TRANSGRESS

                    THE PUBLIC GOOD AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH.

                                 I REMEMBER DISCUSSING THIS WITH OTHER MEMBERS AND

                    THEY SAY, NOT MY RELIGION, NOT MY RELIGION.  AND YOU SAY THAT WELL,

                                         97



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    NONE OF THIS -- NONE OF THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS AFFECTS PEOPLE.  WELL,

                    LOGICALLY, WHY DO PEOPLE CONTACT [SIC] MEASLES?  BECAUSE IN THE FIRST

                    PLACE, THEY HAVEN'T HAD THE VACCINATION.  SO, IT EITHER AFFECTS IT OR IT

                    DOESN'T.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  GENTLEMEN, MAINTAIN

                    YOUR ORDER, PLEASE.

                                 MR. JACOBSON:  SO, IF IT DOESN'T AFFECT ANYTHING,

                    AND AS SAID BEFORE, THEN THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GETTING THE

                    VACCINATION ARE RELYING ON EVERYONE ELSE TO HAVE IT.  AND FOR THOSE FEW

                    PEOPLE THAT CAN'T HAVE IT FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES, WELL, WE PROVIDE FOR

                    THAT.

                                 I JUST -- SOMETIMES WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE ISSUES THAT

                    WE HAVE, I THINK WE ALL SHOULD TAKE A STEP BACK FROM THOSE PEOPLE THAT

                    ARE YELLING AND SCREAMING AND SAY, WE WANT THIS, AND THEN YOU GET TO

                    THE OTHER SIDE AND, WE WANT THAT.  SOMETIMES WHEN YOU GO HOME, JUST

                    THINK ABOUT HOW IT WOULD BE IF YOU WERE NOT ELECTED, IF YOU WERE NOT

                    SERVING UP HERE.  AND YOU READ THE NEWSPAPER THAT NEW YORK STATE IS

                    WEAKENING THE LAWS OR FAILING TO STRENGTHEN THE LAWS CONCERNING

                    VACCINATIONS, YOU WOULD SAY THESE PEOPLE IN ALBANY ARE NUTS UP THERE.

                    SO, I THINK THAT IT'S A VERY SIMPLE CHOICE TO PUT SCIENCE AND REASON

                    AHEAD OF -- AHEAD OF ANY... RELIGIOUS BELIEF OR BELIEF AGAINST SCIENCE,

                    AND LET'S JUST VOTE FOR THE PUBLIC WELFARE, FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD AND LET'S

                    SUPPORT THIS BILL.  LET'S MOVE ON.  LET'S -- LET'S MAKE SURE THAT WHEN --

                    THAT YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE PROTECTED AND THAT THAT ONE-YEAR-OLD

                    WHO HAS NO CLUE WHAT'S GOING ON, HAS NO CLUE, WILL BE PROTECTED AS

                                         98



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WELL.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO GET YOUR

                    SECOND 15.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YOU'RE WELCOME.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  I'LL BE VERY BRIEF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  GO AHEAD.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'LL BE

                    VERY BRIEF.  THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ.  I APPRECIATE IT.  THIS WILL NOT

                    AFFECT OUR FRIENDSHIP.  BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WE'RE GOOD FRIENDS.  WE JUST

                    HAPPEN TO HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT VIEW ON THIS ISSUE.  AND I RESPECT MR.

                    DINOWITZ, WHO IS USUALLY QUITE ASTUTE ON THINGS.  AND EVEN IN THIS CASE

                    -- NO, NO -- AND EVEN IN THIS CASE, I RESPECT HIS VIEWS AND I UNDERSTAND

                    WHY HE'S TRYING TO DO WHAT HE'S DOING.  BUT I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER SIDE

                    THAT NEEDS TO BE STRESSED.  AND WE'RE NOW AT A -- AT A POINT WHERE WE

                    HAVE TO DECIDE.  ARE WE GOING TO CHANGE A SYSTEM THAT'S BEEN IN PLACE

                    FOR A LONG TIME?  ARE WE GOING TO OUST FROM SCHOOL -- MAYBE AS SOON

                    AS THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS IF BOTH HOUSES PASS THIS -- ALL OF THOSE KIDS

                    WHO ARE NOW ATTENDING SCHOOL WHO ARE NOW RELYING ON A RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION AND ARE GOING TO BE CAST OUT ADRIFT?  WHAT ARE WE GOING TO

                    DO WITH ALL OF THOSE KIDS WHO HAVE DISABILITIES, WHO HAVE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTIONS?  WHO NEED THE AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAMS.  WHO NEED THE

                    PROGRAMS THAT THEY GET IN SCHOOL SO THAT THEY CAN -- WHAT ARE WE GOING

                                         99



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    TO DO WITH ALL THOSE KIDS WHO ARE IN EXTENDED SCHOOL PROGRAMS WHO ARE

                    18 AND 19 AND 20 AND 21 WHO HAVE DISABILITIES AND HAVE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTIONS?  KIDS THAT CAN'T TAKE VACCINATIONS BECAUSE OF THEIR

                    CONDITIONS BUT HAVE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS AND NOW WILL HAVE TO FLOOD

                    THE DOCTORS' OFFICES TO TRY TO GET MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS.  WE'RE CHANGING

                    THE WAY WE HAVE SEEN THINGS FOR SO MANY YEARS.  AND NONE OF THESE

                    KIDS, NONE OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE IN ANY WAY CONTRIBUTED TO WHAT IS

                    BEING SEEN AS A PROBLEM.

                                 SO I JUST WANT TO CONCLUDE, MR. SPEAKER, THAT NEW

                    YORK STATE HAS BEEN A LEADER IN PROTECTING THE RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS.

                    WE UNDERSTAND THAT IN A DEMOCRACY, THE MAJORITY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY

                    TO THE MINORITY TO PROTECT THEIR RIGHTS, AND THAT WE'VE SEEN NOTHING THAT

                    SHOWS THAT THE CONTINUED PROTECTION OF THESE RIGHTS FOR SOME 20- TO

                    25,000 PEOPLE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS IN ANY WAY ENDANGERING THE

                    RIGHTS OF THE MAJORITY.

                                 AND I BELIEVE THERE WAS A QUESTION THAT -- THAT

                    SOMEBODY WANTED TO ASK.  IF THEY STILL DO, I WILL YIELD TO THAT PERSON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  IT DOES NOT APPEAR

                    THAT THAT'S THE CASE.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI, WHY DO YOU RISE?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  I'LL JUST EXPLAIN MY VOTE LATER.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ TO

                                         100



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    CLOSE.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I'M GOING TO READ A -- A VERY SHORT

                    LIST OF MEDICAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE SUPPORTING THE LEGISLATION.  THE

                    MEDICAL SOCIETY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY

                    MEDICAL CENTER, THE COUNTY HEALTH OFFICIALS -- HEALTH OFFICIALS OF

                    NEW YORK, THE NURSE PRACTITIONER ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK STATE, THE

                    AMERICAN NURSES ASSOCIATION-NEW YORK, THE NEW YORK STATE

                    ACADEMY OF FAMILY PHYSICIANS, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS.

                    THAT -- THAT'S A VERY PARTIAL LIST.  EVERY MEDICAL EXPERT, EVERY MEDICAL

                    ORGANIZATION, EVERY DOCTOR GROUP SUPPORTS THIS, BECAUSE THEIR PRIMARY

                    RESPONSIBILITY IS DEALING WITH THE HEALTH OF THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK, PARTICULARLY THE HEALTH OF CHILDREN.  AND THIS LEGISLATION IS

                    NOT ABOUT RELIGION AT ALL.  THAT'S WHY IT'S AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH

                    LAW.  IT'S ABOUT HEALTH.  IT'S ABOUT PROTECTING CHILDREN WHO ARE

                    VULNERABLE.  CHILDREN WHO CANNOT BE VACCINATED, CHILDREN WHO CANNOT

                    GO OUTSIDE BECAUSE THEY MAY BE EXPOSED TO OTHER CHILDREN -- OR ADULTS,

                    FOR THAT MATTER -- WHO MAY CARRY A DISEASE AND ONLY CARRY IT BECAUSE OF

                    THE FACT THAT THEY, THEMSELVES, DID NOT GET VACCINATED.  THEY MAKE A

                    CHOICE NOT TO GET VACCINATED, THEREBY JEOPARDIZING THE LIVES OF OTHER

                    PEOPLE.  MANY OF YOU -- OR SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER A GENTLEMAN

                    WHO WAS A COLLEAGUE HERE SOME YEARS AGO.  HE WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE

                    BEFORE I WAS, BUT A FEW OF YOU WOULD REMEMBER HIM, ASSEMBLYMAN

                    VINCENT MARCHISELLI.  HE WAS ABLE TO SOMETIMES WALK USING CRUTCHES,

                    BUT HE WAS USUALLY IN A WHEELCHAIR.  THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE HE

                    CONTRACTED POLIO AT A VERY YOUNG AGE.  THESE DAYS, WE DON'T SEE PEOPLE

                                         101



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WITH POLIO.  WHY IS THAT?  BECAUSE WHEN I WAS A KID, THE SALK VACCINE

                    WAS INVENTED AND PREVENTS POLIO, JUST AS -- JUST AS PRESIDENT ROOSEVELT

                    HAD POLIO.  WHERE -- WHERE IS POLIO NOW?  VACCINES ARE MIRACLES.

                    THEY ARE THE MIRACLES OF THE 20TH CENTURY AND NOW THE 21ST CENTURY.

                    THEY'VE SAVED UNTOLD MILLIONS OF LIVES.  AND NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO BE

                    EXPOSED TO A DISEASE, A VACCINE-PREVENTABLE DISEASE.  NO ONE SHOULD

                    HAVE TO BE EXPOSED WHO -- WHO THEMSELVES CAN'T GET VACCINATED

                    BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE MAKES A CHOICE, A FREE CHOICE NOT TO VACCINATE

                    JEOPARDIZING OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES.

                                 I READ THE LINE FROM THE SUPREME COURT, I'M NOT GOING

                    TO READ IT AGAIN.  BUT THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT WAS CLEAR ON

                    THIS.  THE HEALTH OF OTHER PEOPLE -- I HATE TO USE THIS WORD -- TRUMPS

                    PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO SAY THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO GET VACCINATED OR HAVE THEIR

                    CHILDREN VACCINATED.  SO, I GUESS IT WAS IN THE 17TH CENTURY, ONE OF THE

                    MOST FAMOUS ASTRONOMERS AND PHYSICISTS, GALILEO, HE PUT FORTH A THEORY

                    CALLED HELIOCENTRISM THAT THE SUN, NOT THE EARTH, IS THE CENTER.  I GUESS

                    HE SAID THE UNIVERSE, BUT THE SUN IS THE CENTER OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM AND

                    THE EARTH REVOLVED AROUND THE SUN.  AND HE WAS TRIED AS A HERETIC

                    BECAUSE OF THAT.  BECAUSE THE ANTI-SCIENCE PEOPLE WHO KNOW NOTHING,

                    THOUGHT THAT HE WAS VIOLATING THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, AND HE SPENT THE

                    LAST YEARS OF HIS LIFE CONFINED AS A RESULT OF THAT.

                                 YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE UNITED

                    STATES TODAY AND IN THE PAST WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN SCIENCE.  THERE WERE

                    MANY PEOPLE, MAYBE EVEN TODAY, WHO DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE EARTH IS

                    ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE.  THERE ARE PROBABLY

                                         102



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT.

                    THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT EVOLUTION IS NOT REAL, AND THERE ARE

                    PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT REAL AND IS NOT MADE --

                    CAUSED BY PEOPLE.  AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE THAT

                    VACCINES ARE SAFE.  VACCINES ARE SAFE, THEY'VE SAVED MILLIONS OF LIVES,

                    AND IT'S -- IT'S THE GREATEST MIRACLE OF MEDICINE THAT EVER EXISTED.  AND I

                    THINK THAT WE SHOULD VOTE TO PROTECT CHILDREN, BECAUSE THIS IS ABOUT

                    PROTECTING CHILDREN.

                                 I BELIEVE IN MEDICINE AND I BELIEVE IN SCIENCE AND I

                    BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO PROTECT CHILDREN, SO I WOULD URGE YOU TO VOTE

                    YES ON THIS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. EICHENSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. EICHENSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  LET ME BEGIN BY SETTING THE RECORD

                    STRAIGHT.  I'M PRO-VACCINATION.  MY KIDS ARE ALL VACCINATED.  MY KIDS

                    ATTEND SCHOOL THAT ARE FULLY IN COMPLIANCE, AS ALL SCHOOLS IN MY DISTRICT.

                    FURTHERMORE, I, FOR ONE, DO NOT BELIEVE THERE'S ANY RELIGIOUS RESTRICTION

                    AS IT RELATES TO VACCINATIONS.  NOR HAVE I MET A SERIOUS RELIGIOUS LEADER

                    IN MY COMMUNITY THAT HAS RAISED HALAKHA JEWISH LAW RESTRICTIONS WITH

                    VACCINATIONS.  IN FACT, THE ENTIRE RABBINICAL COMMUNE LEADERSHIP HAS

                                         103



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    BEEN WORKING HAND-IN-HAND WITH OUR LOCAL MUNICIPALITY, URGING THE

                    COMMUNITY TO VACCINATE AND WE HAVE ACHIEVED GREAT RESULTS.  AS THE

                    NEW YORK CITY HEALTH COMMISSIONER STATED EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE

                    NUMBER OF NEW CASES OF MEASLES EACH WEEK IS GOING DOWN.  HOWEVER,

                    MY FELLOW COLLEAGUES, LET ME READ TO YOU THE FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE

                    UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION:  "CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING

                    AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION."  WE ARE HERE DEBATING SOMETHING THAT IS

                    BEYOND THE SCOPE OF A LEGISLATOR.  BECAUSE IN AMERICA WE HAVE A

                    GUARANTEE OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM THAT SURPASSES ANY OTHER NATION ON THIS

                    PLANET.  IT IS DANGEROUS FOR US TO LEGISLATE THE -- IT IS DANGEROUS FOR A

                    LEGISLATIVE BODY TO PICK AND CHOOSE WHEN NEW YORKERS HAVE THEIR

                    FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND WHEN THEY DON'T.  BECAUSE IN THE UNITED

                    STATES OF AMERICA WE DO NOT LEGISLATE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

                                 THEREFORE, MR. SPEAKER, DESPITE MY PRO-VACCINATION

                    STANCE AND DESPITE MY BELIEFS THAT THERE ARE NO RELIGIOUS RESTRICTIONS, IT

                    IS MY CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EICHENSTEIN IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. BICHOTTE.

                                 MS. BICHOTTE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE ON THE REPEAL OF THE EXEMPTION OF

                    RELIGIOUS RIGHTS FROM VACCINATION.  THIS BILL HAS BEEN AN EQUALLY

                    CHALLENGING ISSUE FOR ME BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC HEALTH

                    ISSUES AS WELL AS A CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE.  LIKE MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES,

                    I'M PRO-VACCINATION.  I'M PRO-INTERVENING IN AN EMERGENCY CASE IN

                                         104



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WHICH HAS RECENTLY HAPPENED WITH THE MEASLE OUTBREAK.  BUT I DO

                    BELIEVE IN UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF CIVIL LIBERTIES TO

                    CHOOSE AND -- TO CHOOSE TO BELIEVE.  AND AS YOU KNOW, RELIGION IS

                    UNDER THE PROTECTED CLASS.  NOW, AS A MEMBER OF THE HEALTH

                    COMMITTEE, AGAIN, I'VE READ A LOT OF DOCUMENTS AND SO FORTH, BUT THEY

                    WEREN'T REALLY MUCH EVIDENT [SIC] THAT CORRELATED THE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION AND THE MEASLE OUTBREAK.  AS MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED, THIS

                    WHOLE BILL IS NOT ABOUT -- ABOUT VACCINATION.  I THINK MOST OF US ARE FOR

                    VACCINATION.  I WAS VAC -- I WAS VACCINATED.  I HAD THE MEASLES TWICE,

                    EVEN AFTER I WAS VACCINATED.  BUT THIS IS NOT ABOUT VACCINATION.  THIS IS

                    ABOUT OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, OUR RIGHT TO CHOOSE TO EXERCISE OUR

                    RELIGION.  AND JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS, AGAIN, THAT

                    DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE WALKING AROUND SPREADING DISEASES.

                                 I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, I REMEMBER IN 1990 THE FOOD

                    DRUG ADMINISTRATION [SIC] AND AMERICAN RED CROSS SAID THAT HAITIANS

                    WERE THE CREATOR OF AIDS.  REMEMBER THAT.  THERE WERE NO EVIDENCE

                    THAT WE CREATED AIDS.  IN FACT, IT WAS SOMEONE OR PEOPLE WHO CAME TO

                    THE COUNTRY AND INFECTED THE POPULATION.  AND I KNOW HOW THAT FELT

                    BECAUSE THERE WERE TALKS ABOUT QUARANTINING HAITIANS AND THE WEST

                    AFRICANS.  TODAY I --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. BICHOTTE, HOW

                    DO YOU VOTE?

                                 MS. BICHOTTE:  MR. -- MR. SPEAKER, TODAY I JUST

                    WANT TO -- I WANT TO STAND TODAY AS A PRO-VACCINATOR AND A PRO-PUBLIC

                    HEALTH PERSON TO VOTE NO ON THIS BILL AND --

                                         105



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BICHOTTE IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 PLEASE, WE CAN'T EXTEND.  WE HAVE TWO MINUTES.

                    PLEASE CONFINE YOUR REMARKS TO THOSE TWO MINUTES.  I WILL,

                    UNFORTUNATELY, HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE AND JUST TO CLEAR UP A FEW OF THE MISCONCEPTIONS AND

                    ANSWER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE PRESENTED ON THE FLOOR DURING

                    THE DEBATE.  ONE, THE ROCKLAND COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAS

                    SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR THIS LEGISLATION AND HAS DEFINITIVELY STATED THAT IT

                    WOULD HAVE HELPED IN DEALING WITH EPIDEMIC IN ROCKLAND COUNTY.

                                 TWO, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S LED TO -- THE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION HAS LED TO PEOPLE CONTRACTING MEASLES, 80 PERCENT OF THE

                    CASES IN ROCKLAND WERE FOLKS UNDER THE AGE OF 18.  WE HAVE A

                    COMPULSORY EDUCATION LAW HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.  THEY'RE EITHER

                    GETTING A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION OR THE EVALUATION OF THE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION IS SO AMORPHOUS THAT IT'S VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE STATE

                    TO EVALUATE THE -- THE GIVING OF THOSE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.  IN FACT,

                    ROCKLAND COUNTY HAS FOUND SEVERE UNDER-REPORTING BY SCHOOLS,

                    VARIOUS PRIVATE SCHOOLS, WITHIN MY COUNTY.

                                 AND LASTLY, MR. SPEAKER, THE CDC DEFINITION -- I'M

                    READING FROM THE PRINCIPLES OF EPIDEMIOLOGY AND PUBLIC HEALTH

                    PRACTICE, THIRD EDITION, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL, WHICH -- WHICH

                    SAYS THAT, AN EPIDEMIC REFERS TO AN INCREASE, OFTEN SUDDEN, IN THE

                                         106



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    NUMBER OF CASES OF A DISEASE ABOVE WHAT IS NORMALLY EXPECTED IN THE

                    POPULATION IN THAT AREA.  THE SITUATION IN ROCKLAND COUNTY IS CLEARLY

                    AN EPIDEMIC VIA THAT DEFINITION AND, THEREFORE, MR. SPEAKER, IN ORDER TO

                    DEAL WITH THIS EPIDEMIC AND PREVENT FUTURE EPIDEMICS, I VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ZEBROWSKI IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. BARRON.

                                 MR. BARRON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS IS

                    ONE OF THE TOUGHEST ISSUES I HAD TO VOTE ON.  I'M VOTING NO.  AND THOSE

                    WHO SAY THAT THE VACCINATION IS TOTALLY HARMLESS, NOT TRUE.  I KNOW

                    FAMILIES THAT HAVE SUFFERED AFTER GIVING THEIR CHILDREN THE VACCINATION.

                    THERE IS SOME HARM DONE.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 THERE IS SOME HARM DONE --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PLEASE.  PLEASE.

                                 MR. BARRON:  THERE IS SOME HARM DONE.  AND YOU

                    CAN BRING IN STUDIES AND DOCTORS.  BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT TALKED

                    ABOUT CHILDHOOD AUTISM, BUT THEY HAVE STUDIES THAT SAY NO, THAT'S NOT

                    TRUE.  YOU CAN FIND A STUDY TO SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT IT TO SAY.  BUT THE

                    BOTTOM LINE, THE REAL LIVE PEOPLE THAT I'VE SPOKEN TO, THEIR CHILDREN WERE

                    SUFFERING FROM THESE VACCINATIONS.  AND THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES

                    ARE MAKING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO PUSH THESE VACCINATIONS.  AND IN OUR

                    COMMUNITY, THE BLACK COMMUNITY -- ALTHOUGH THIS IS NOT RELATED -- WE

                    DID HAVE AN EXPERIMENT IN AMERICA IN TUSKEEGEE WHERE THEY SHOT US

                                         107



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    UP WITH SYPHILIS, AND SOME PEOPLE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT WAS

                    HAPPENING.  WE ALSO QUESTION WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE EBOLA VIRUS

                    AND THE HIV VIRUS.  I DON'T TRUST IT.  AND A LOT OF THE PEOPLE IN MY

                    COMMUNITY DON'T TRUST IT.  AND WE DO FEEL FOR THE VULNERABLE THAT MIGHT

                    BE AFFECTED BY THOSE WHO DON'T GET VACCINATED, BUT THEY'RE SOME OF US

                    THAT ARE BEING AFFECTED WHO DO GET VACCINATED.

                                 SO I'M VOTING NO.  AND I KNOW THE MAJORITY OF THE

                    STUDIES AND THE MAJORITY OF THE POLLS AND ALL OF THAT SAY THAT WE SHOULD

                    VOTE YES, BUT I THINK THAT THERE IS A RISK WITH THIS AND WE SHOULD GIVE

                    THE RIGHT TO PARENTS AND THE RIGHT TO INDIVIDUALS TO DETERMINE THAT.

                    WHEN THEY SAY IT'S NOT A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT BECAUSE THE FIRST

                    AMENDMENT SAYS YOU CAN'T HOLLER "FIRE" IN THE MOVIE THEATER, THAT'S NOT

                    A FIRST AMENDMENT.  BUT NO, THIS IS NOT ABOUT HOLLERING "FIRE", THIS IS

                    ABOUT DETERMINING THAT A VACCINATION CAN BE HARMFUL --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BARRON.

                                 MR. BARRON:  SO I VOTE NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  MR.

                    BARRON IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. --

                                 (APPLAUSE/CHEERING)

                                 SHH.  MR. FITZPATRICK.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I'M OPPOSED TO THIS BILL, BUT I WANT TO

                    KNOW -- I WANT THE SPONSOR TO KNOW I ADMIRE AND RESPECT HIS PASSION

                    ON THIS ISSUE.  BUT THE PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE THIS ISSUE, MANY OF THEM

                                         108



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    HERE TODAY, WE'VE SPOKEN TO MANY OF THEM.  THEY'RE NOT FLAT EARTHERS.

                    THEY'RE NOT ANTI-VACCINE.  THEY'RE NOT ANTI-SCIENCE.  THEY BELIEVE IN

                    PEOPLE'S FREEDOM TO VACCINATE THEIR CHILDREN.  THEY BELIEVE THAT

                    EVERYONE SHOULD DO WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT FOR THEIR CHILD.  THEY JUST

                    WANT THAT RIGHT RESPECTED WITH REGARD TO HOW THEY WANT TO CARE FOR THEIR

                    CHILDREN.  RELIGIOUS LIBERTY IS IMPORTANT AND MUST NOT BE INFRINGED.

                    THIS IS AN INFRINGEMENT ON RELIGIOUS LIBERTY.  THE HEALTH OF THE

                    COMMUNITY IS, OF COURSE, OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE.  BUT, AS MY

                    COLLEAGUE FROM WESTCHESTER SO ELOQUENTLY STATED, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE

                    THAT THE SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO TAKE ADVANTAGE OR USE THE

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION ARE HARMING THE OTHERS.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. FITZPATRICK IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M A

                    LONGTIME STRONG ADVOCATE FOR VACCINATION AND FOR SEEKING TO GET AS

                    CLOSE TO 100 PERCENT VACCINATION AS POSSIBLE.  I'VE STRONGLY SUPPORTED

                    ALL OF THE -- ALL OF THE EXPANSIONS OF VACCINE MANDATES THAT HAVE BEEN

                    ENACTED, AND SUPPORTED AND SPONSORED EFFORTS TO IMPROVE VACCINATION

                    COVERAGE FOR THE -- INSURANCE COVERAGE, RATHER, FOR THE COST OF

                    VACCINATIONS.  THE FIRST AMENDMENT IS FUNDAMENTAL, AND WE SHOULD BE

                    VERY WARY OF LIMITING ITS PROTECTIONS.  IT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF PUBLIC

                    HEALTH PRINCIPLE THAT YOU FIRST DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN THROUGH

                    EDUCATION, OUTREACH, PERSUASION AND HELPING PEOPLE TO DO WHAT IS

                                         109



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    NEEDED BEFORE TURNING TO MANDATES AND PUNISHMENTS.  THE EXPERIENCE

                    WITH SUCH EFFORTS IN WILLIAMSBURG AND ROCKLAND COUNTY SHOWS THAT

                    GOOD PUBLIC HEALTH CAMPAIGNS CAN GET THOUSANDS MORE PEOPLE,

                    INCLUDING CHILDREN, VACCINATED.  CHILD VACCINATION RATES IN NEW YORK

                    ARE WITHIN A POINT OR TWO OF 100 PERCENT.  THAT'S ABOUT AS CLOSE TO

                    COMPLETE AS WE GET IN HUMAN AFFAIRS.  THERE ARE ISOLATED POCKETS OF

                    LOW VACCINATION RATES IN SOME SCHOOLS.  GOOD PUBLIC HEALTH PRACTICE IS

                    TO IDENTIFY THOSE POCKETS AND TAKE STEPS TO PROMOTE VACCINATION BEFORE

                    AN OUTBREAK HAPPENS.  AND IT IS IN SUPPORT OF THOSE PUBLIC HEALTH

                    PRINCIPLES THAT I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED IN THE

                    -- IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. GLICK.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY

                    VOTE.  I'VE HEARD INTERESTING ANALOGIES HERE.  IT'S GREAT TO RESPECT OTHER

                    PEOPLE'S DIETARY CONCERNS, BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR

                    NOT YOU EXPOSE PEOPLE TO A COMMUNICABLE DISEASE.  THERE'S -- THERE

                    HAVE BEEN OTHER FAIRLY BIZARRE ANALOGIES, LIKE THE RIGHT TO TERMINATE A

                    PREGNANCY VERSUS GOING TO SCHOOL.  NOW, LET'S BE CLEAR.  THIS IS ONE

                    PARENT DECIDING, I'M NOT VACCINATING MY CHILD, BUT I EXPECT THE SCHOOL

                    SYSTEM TO TAKE MY CHILD IN, DESPITE THE FACT THAT MY CHILD, BY VIRTUE OF

                    NOT HAVING A VACCINATION, MAY INFECT AN ENTIRE CLASSROOM.  PEOPLE HAVE

                    USED THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION BECAUSE OF A PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEF IN MANY

                    INSTANCES, AND THIS IS ABOUT PUBLIC HEALTH.  IF WE BELIEVE THAT IT'S OKAY

                    WHEN IT COMES TO MEASLES AND MUMPS AND RUBELLA, THEN WHY NOT OTHER

                                         110



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    DISEASES THAT IN AN INCREASINGLY GLOBAL COMMUNITY, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT

                    PRESENT NORMALLY IN OUR SOCIETY, ARE BROUGHT INTO OUR COMMUNITY AND

                    WE ARE NOT NECESSARILY FACING A HERD IMMUNITY?  THEN WHAT DO WE DO?

                    WE TELL PEOPLE, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE SIX MONTHS TO REMIND PEOPLE

                    HOW IMPORTANT IT IS.  MEANWHILE, DAMAGE IS DONE.

                                 I -- I AM SURPRISED AND SHOCKED BY SOME PEOPLE WHO

                    DON'T RECOGNIZE THE NEED FOR THIS, AND I RESPECTFULLY WITHDRAW MY

                    REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MRS. GALEF.

                                 MRS. GALEF:  I TOTALLY BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC

                    HEALTH ISSUE.  AND I'VE TOLD THIS STORY BEFORE BECAUSE IT'S THE STORY OF

                    MY LIFE.  I WAS LIVING IN LA CROSSE, WISCONSIN UNTIL I WAS FOUR -- AND

                    ACTUALLY, IF YOU WANT TO KNOW, THAT WAS 75 YEARS AGO -- OH, MY

                    GOODNESS.  ANYWAY, I'M LIVING IN LA CROSSE, WISCONSIN, AND THE ONLY

                    THING I REMEMBER FROM LA CROSSE, WISCONSIN WAS BEING OUT ON THE

                    FRONT LAWN AND HAVING THIS REALLY BIG POLICEMAN COME UP TO ME AND

                    SAY, LITTLE GIRL, THERE'S POLIO AROUND HERE.  GET IN THE HOUSE.  SO, I'M

                    SURE I RAN IN THE HOUSE, I WAS PROBABLY SCARED TO DEATH.  AND

                    FORTUNATELY, I NEVER CONTRACTED POLIO.  BUT I KNOW OF SO MANY OTHER

                    PEOPLE THAT DID DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, AND WASN'T IT GREAT THAT WE

                    FINALLY GOT A VACCINE TO TRY TO HELP US WITH THE POLIO EPIDEMIC?  BUT I'D

                    JUST LIKE TO SAY -- AND I COMPLIMENT ROTARY FOR WHAT THEY DO, BECAUSE I

                    HAVE A FRIEND IN ROTARY THAT GOES TO ALL THESE COUNTRIES TO GIVE POLIO

                                         111



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    VACCINES.  BUT IT'S STARTING TO CREEP UP AGAIN.  I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO

                    WATCH THESE THINGS.  JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK THEY'RE NONEXISTENT LIKE

                    MEASLES, THEY CAN COME BACK AGAIN.  AND, YOU KNOW, BEING THAT LITTLE

                    GIRL, FOUR YEARS OLD IN WISCONSIN, I DON'T WANT THESE LITTLE FOUR-YEAR-OLD

                    GIRLS OR BOYS IN OUR AREA TO FEAR IN ANY WAY GOING TO SCHOOL BECAUSE

                    THEY MIGHT GET -- CONTRACT THE MEASLES BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE

                    GETTING THEIR VACCINATION SHOTS.  I THINK WE REALLY HAVE TO TAKE THIS VERY

                    SERIOUSLY, MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NO EXPANSION OF -- OF MEASLES.  AND

                    WE'RE JUST STARTING TO SEE THIS EXPLOSION.  IT PROBABLY ISN'T EPIDEMIC YET,

                    BUT IT CAN BE, YOU KNOW, IN A MONTH OR TWO OR WHATEVER.

                                 AND SO I'M VERY MUCH SUPPORTIVE OF THIS AND I

                    CONGRATULATE THE SPONSOR FOR ALL OF THE WORK THAT HE'S DONE.  THIS HAS

                    NOT BEEN AN EASY TASK.  AND CERTAINLY, WITH THE VERY STRONG ADVOCATES

                    ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE IT HAS BEEN NOT BEEN AN EASY JOB FOR ANY OF

                    US.  I VOTE YES.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. GALEF IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. LENTOL.

                                 MR. LENTOL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I, TOO, AM

                    UNAPOLOGETICALLY IN FAVOR OF ALL VACCINATIONS.  I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN

                    VACCINATED MY WHOLE LIFE.  BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WITH THIS BILL WE'VE GONE

                    ASTRAY BECAUSE THE VACCINATIONS OR THE -- I'M SORRY, THE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTIONS ARE NOT THE CULPRIT HERE.  THE CULPRIT HERE IS THE

                    GOVERNMENT, I'M AFRAID TO TELL YOU, THAT HAS FAILED TO CORRECT

                    MISINFORMATION THAT IS OUT THERE, TO TALK TO PARENTS WHO ARE OUT THERE

                                         112



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    AND DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT THERE MAY BE JUNK SCIENCE THAT THEY'RE

                    LISTENING TO.  AND OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO DO A BETTER JOB, TO TALK WITH

                    PARENTS AND MAYBE EDUCATE THEM IF WE BELIEVE IN -- IF WE BELIEVE IN THE

                    FACT THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD BE VACCINATED, AS I DO.  BUT TO DO THIS, TO

                    TAKE AWAY THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, I THINK IS ONE OF THE WORST THINGS

                    THAT WE CAN DO IN THIS BODY.  WE'RE GOING TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE BY

                    SUPPRESSING PEOPLES' LIBERTIES.  THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ABOUT HERE TODAY.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 AND BY THE WAY, SUPPRESSING LIBERTY DOESN'T WORK

                    ANYWHERE.  AND WE OUGHT NOT TO ALLOW IT HERE IN NEW YORK OR

                    ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, A COUNTRY FOUNDED ON THE

                    PRINCIPLES OF FREEDOM AND LIBERTY.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  LADIES AND

                    GENTLEMEN, PLEASE.

                                 MR. LENTOL:  SORRY.  I GET A LITTLE EXCITED ABOUT

                    THIS.  NOT BECAUSE OF THE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY ARGUMENT, BUT I KNOW THAT WE

                    COULD HAVE DONE BETTER WITH THIS BILL.  IF WE WANTED TO FASHION A TRUE

                    EXCEPTION TO RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, WE COULD HAVE DONE THAT.  WE COULD

                    HAVE CURTAILED THAT EXEMPTION --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LENTOL, HOW DO

                    YOU VOTE?

                                 MR. LENTOL:  WE SHOULD HAVE, AND I THINK WE MAY

                    WIND UP DOING IT ANYWAY.  I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LENTOL IN THE

                                         113



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. WALLACE.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THE

                    OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I'VE HEARD MEMBER AFTER MEMBER

                    QUOTE THE CONSTITUTION.  YES, CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING

                    THE FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION.  BUT JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER AMENDMENT IN

                    THE BILL OF RIGHTS, THERE ARE LIMITS TO THE FREE EXERCISE.  FOR EXAMPLE, AS

                    THE SUPREME COURT SAID BACK IN 1878, BY WAY OF EXAMPLE, WE WOULD

                    NEVER ALLOW SOMEONE TO SACRIFICE A HUMAN BECAUSE THAT -- EVEN IF THAT

                    WAS SOMEONE'S SINCERELY-HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEF.  AND EVEN BACK IN 1990,

                    NOT THAT LONG AGO, THE SUPREME COURT SAID YOU CAN'T SMOKE PEYOTE EVEN

                    THOUGH YOUR RELIGION MAY REQUIRE THAT.  SO THERE ARE LIMITS TO FIRST

                    AMENDMENT RIGHTS.  AND THE SUPREME COURT HAS MADE REPEATEDLY CLEAR

                    TIME AFTER TIME AFTER TIME THAT THE FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION MAY GIVE

                    WAY TO THE MANDATORY VACCINATION LAWS BECAUSE, QUOTE, "A COMMUNITY

                    HAS THE RIGHT TO PROTECT ITSELF IN AN EPIDEMIC OF DISEASE WHICH THREATENS

                    THE SAFETY OF ITS MEMBERS", END QUOTE.  AND SO WHEN MR. GOODELL EATS

                    PORK, AND OTHERS DON'T, OR WHEN MR. GOODELL WORKS ON SATURDAY AND

                    OTHERS DON'T, THERE'S NOTHING --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. --

                                 MS. WALLACE:  -- ABOUT THAT ACTIVITY THAT INTERFERES

                    OR HARMS OTHER PEOPLE.  AND THAT'S WHERE THE LINE GETS DRAWN.  AND SO

                    AS TO THE FREEDOM TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE YOUR CHILD, THE

                    SUPREME COURT HAS ALSO SPOKEN TO THAT AND SAID, QUOTE, "PARENTS MAY

                    BE FREE TO BECOME MARTYRS THEMSELVES, BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT THEY

                                         114



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    ARE FREE TO MAKE MARTYRS OF THEIR CHILDREN BEFORE THEY HAVE REACHED THE

                    AGE OF FULL AND LEGAL DISCRETION WHEN THEY CAN MAKE THAT DECISION

                    THEMSELVES."

                                 SO I PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE BECAUSE I THINK

                    IT'S IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF OUR SOCIETY TO DO SO, TO PROTECT ALL OF THOSE

                    OTHER CHILDREN WHO ARE TOO YOUNG OR SYSTEMS ARE COMPROMISED TO GET

                    THE VACCINATION THEMSELVES.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALLACE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MEMBERS, WE ARE REMINDED NOT TO NAME OTHER

                    MEMBERS IN THE EXPLANATION OF YOUR VOTE, EVEN IF THEY ARE CHARISMATIC,

                    AS THE GENTLEMAN NAMED IS.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 MR. BURKE.

                                 MR. BURKE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  IN THIS GREAT

                    COUNTRY OF OURS, WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRACTICE OUR RELIGION AS WE SEE FIT.

                    BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE OUR RELIGIOUS VALUES ON OTHERS IN

                    SOCIETY.  AND WHEN A POTENTIAL SPREAD OF OUTBREAK AND DISEASE IS

                    CAUSED BY ONE PERSON OR A GROUP CLAIMING EXEMPTION AND POTENTIALLY

                    CAUSING THE SPREAD, THE PERSON WHO DIDN'T CHOOSE THAT WHO THEN

                    CATCHES THAT DISEASE, THEY'RE THE VICTIM OF HAVING SOMEONE ELSE'S VALUES

                    IMPOSED ON THEM.  AND I COULDN'T THINK OF ANYTHING MORE UNAMERICAN.

                                 I VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BURKE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                         115



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MS. PAULIN.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING

                    ME THE CHANCE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I AM GOING TO BE VOTING YES ON THIS

                    LEGISLATION.  YOU KNOW, WE -- WE'VE HEARD -- I'VE HEARD FROM SO MANY

                    -- LISTENING TO THIS DEBATE, SO MANY OF THE MEMBERS IN THIS CHAMBER

                    HAVE BEEN SO ARTICULATE IN EXPLAINING WHY THEY ARE FOR THIS BILL AND WHY

                    THEY'RE AGAINST.  THE REASON THAT I HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE FOR IT IS FOR VERY

                    MUCH THE SAME REASON THAT I'VE HEARD MY COLLEAGUES VOTE AGAINST IT.

                    THERE'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT THEY WANT TO PROTECT AND, THEREFORE, THEIR

                    VOTE IS NO.  WELL, THERE'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT I, TOO, WANT TO PROTECT.

                    I NO LONGER, YOU KNOW, PICK UP MY CHILDREN FROM SCHOOL.  THEY'RE WELL

                    ABOVE THAT AGE.  BUT I THINK ABOUT MY DAUGHTER, WHO HAS A

                    THREE-YEAR-OLD WHO'S ABOUT TO GO TO PRESCHOOL, AND THEN SCHOOL, PUBLIC

                    SCHOOL AT SOME POINT.  AND I THINK, WELL, IF SHE WAS PREGNANT AGAIN AND

                    PICKING UP THAT CHILD, WHAT IF THE IMMUNITY -- YOU KNOW, SHE'S IN THAT

                    AGE CATEGORY WHERE WE'RE UNSURE OF HER IMMUNITY, WHEN THEY GOT ONE

                    SHOT AS OPPOSED TO TWO.  WE THINK SHE'S IMMUNE.  WE THINK A LOT OF

                    THOSE SAME INDIVIDUALS ARE IMMUNE.  THEY'RE OF CHILDBEARING AGE NOW,

                    AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT -- IF YOU CATCH MEASLES WHEN YOU'RE PREGNANT

                    THERE'S -- YOU COULD BE -- YOU COULD GET -- HAVE A MISCARRIAGE, STILLBIRTH.

                    THERE ARE COMPLICATIONS OF THE CHILD ITSELF, THEY COULD DEVELOP

                    MEASLES.  SO WHERE I CAME COME DOWN ON THIS -- AND THEY'RE BRINGING

                    THEIR BABIES WHO ARE NOT IMMUNIZED UNTIL THEY'RE A YEAR OLD.  THAT'S THE

                    SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT.  THE SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT IS FILLED WITH THESE

                    YOUNG WOMEN WHO ARE PREGNANT AND ARE BRINGING BABIES, AND THOSE ARE

                                         116



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THE POP --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. --

                                 MS. PAULIN:  -- THAT'S THE POPULATION THAT I'VE

                    DECIDED TO --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. PAULIN.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  -- COME DOWN ON.  SO I VOTE YES.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. PAULIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. SIMON.

                                 MS. SIMON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WOULD LIKE

                    TO ADDRESS THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND THE FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION.  AS

                    LONGSTANDING SUPREME COURT CASE LAW HAS HELD, THAT A FUNDAMENTAL

                    CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT FALLS IN THE FACE OF A COMPELLING STATE INTEREST.  THE

                    PUBLIC'S HEALTH OF ITS CHILDREN IS SUCH A COMPELLING STATE INTEREST.  IN

                    JACOBSON V. MASSACHUSETTS, THE COURT -- THE SUPREME COURT OF THE

                    UNITED STATES HELD THAT THE LIBERTY SECURED BY THE CONSTITUTION OF THE

                    UNITED STATES TO EVERY PERSON WITHIN ITS JURISDICTION DOES NOT IMPORT AN

                    ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO EACH PERSON TO BE AT ALL TIMES AND IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES

                    WHOLLY FREED FROM RESTRAINT.  THERE ARE MANIFOLD RESTRAINTS TO WHICH

                    EVERY PERSON IS NECESSARILY SUBJECT FOR THE COMMON GOOD.  ON ANY

                    OTHER BASIS, ORGANIZED SOCIETY COULD NOT EXIST WITH SAFETY TO ITS

                    MEMBERS.

                                 I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SIMON IN THE

                                         117



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THANKS.  I -- I'VE BEEN TORN, AND I

                    THINK MANY OF US ARE TORN.  THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE DEBATE, I'VE BEEN

                    TEXTING WITH A FRIEND -- ACTUALLY, SOMEONE I KNOW ALL HIS LIFE WHO I

                    HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR -- WHO WANTS ME TO VOTE NO ON THIS BILL.  BUT IT

                    SEEMS TO ME THAT I'M GOING TO VOTE YES.  NOW, WE -- SOME HAVE SAID

                    THIS ISN'T ABOUT VACCINATION.  BUT IT IS ABOUT VACCINATION.  AT THE SAME

                    TIME, IT IS ABOUT RELIGION.  AND THE -- THE PASSIONS -- THE PASSIONS RISE

                    WHEN WE DISCUSS ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH ANYONE'S CONCEPT OF -- OF

                    FAITH.  BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO RELY ON JEFFERSON'S VIEW THAT THERE MUST

                    BE THIS STRONG AND TALL WALL BETWEEN MATTERS OF STATE AND MATTERS OF

                    FAITH.  I AM PERSUADED BY LISTENING TO MY COLLEAGUES FROM ROCKLAND

                    COUNTY, WHICH IS IN THE MIDST OF A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS BECAUSE OF

                    MEASLES.  AND I FEAR WE ARE AT THE EDGE OF A CLIFF, A VERY DEEP AND A

                    VERY DANGEROUS CLIFF.  AND I FEAR IF WE DON'T ACT, IF WE DON'T PASS THIS

                    BILL, THAT WE WILL MAKE MATTERS WORSE FOR EVERY CHILD IN THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK AND EVERY PERSON IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 SO I'M GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE -- IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                    AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF I'M MAKING A MISTAKE, I'D RATHER MISTAKE --

                    MAKE THAT MISTAKE ON THE SIDE OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND THE PUBLIC GOOD.

                    AND THAT'S WHAT I'VE GOT TO SAY, AND I'M VOTING YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAVINE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. WEPRIN.

                                         118



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE TO

                    BE EXCUSED FROM VOTING TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I FEEL THAT EVERYONE

                    SHOULD BE VACCINATED.  I'VE -- MY ENTIRE FAMILY IS VACCINATED, BUT I

                    THINK THERE HAS BEEN NO LINK TO THE MEASLES CRISIS AND THE RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTIONS.  AS WAS POINTED OUT, IT'S A VERY LOW PERCENTAGE OF

                    INDIVIDUALS IN GENERAL IN NEW YORK STATE THAT HAVE A RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTION.  AND ONCE WE GO DOWN THIS PATH OF REPEALING RELIGIOUS

                    EXEMPTIONS, IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE.  AND WHO KNOWS WHAT THE -- THE NEXT

                    STEP WILL BE, AND WHO IS TO DEFINE WHAT SOMEONE'S RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ARE,

                    WHAT'S A RELIGIOUS BELIEF TO ONE PERSON OR INDIVIDUAL OR RELIGION IS NOT A

                    RELIGIOUS BELIEF TO EVERYONE ELSE.  SO -- AND I DO BELIEVE THAT IT'S IN THE

                    POWER OF THE LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS AND THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT

                    TO DECLARE EMERGENCIES UNDER EXISTING LAW AND TO MANDATE THAT

                    EVERYONE BE VACCINATED IN THE CASE OF A CRISIS.  AND WE MAY BE IN A

                    CRISIS, WE MAY NOT BE.  BUT THIS IS NOT THE APPROACH BY REPEALING

                    RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS IN THE LAW, WHICH HAS BEEN IN THE LAW FOR MANY

                    YEARS.

                                 SO FOR ALL OF THOSE REASONS, I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND

                    VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. WEPRIN IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. FAHY TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. FAHY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I, TOO, HAVE

                    SPENT A LOT OF TIME LISTENING TO THIS, AND EARLIER THIS YEAR I HAD ALSO

                    INTRODUCE A RELATED BILL REGARDING IMMUNIZATION AND VACCINES.  AND

                                         119



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WHILE I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CASES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE OR A

                    NUMBER OF COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED, WHAT REALLY CAUGHT MY

                    ATTENTION MUCH EARLIER THIS YEAR IS WHEN THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION

                    ANNOUNCED THAT BECAUSE OF THE VACCINE HESITANCY, THAT WE WERE AT RISK

                    OF A -- A HEALTH CRISIS AND THAT IT WAS ONE OF THE TEN GREATEST HEALTH

                    CRISES TO WORLD HEALTH IN GENERAL.  NEW YORK STATE WAS THE HOME OF

                    ONE OF THE LARGEST OUTBREAKS IN YEARS.  AND WHILE I DO THINK THERE ARE A

                    NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED -- WHEN MY SON WAS AN INFANT,

                    HE, TOO, HAD A VERY SEVERE REACTION TO A VACCINE.  SO I LISTENED VERY

                    CAREFULLY TO THOSE WHO RAISED THE CONCERNS AND I SHARED A LOT OF

                    HESITANCY AS MY CHILDREN WERE GROWING UP BUT ALWAYS ERRED ON THE SIDE

                    OF CAUTION, AND THAT IS VACCINATING MY CHILDREN.  BUT IN THE END, WHAT

                    WE SAW AND WHAT WE HAVE HEARD IS THAT WHAT WE DO IN OUR OWN

                    PERSONAL LIVES IS ONE THING WITH OUR OWN FAMILIES, BUT WHEN WE PUT THE

                    REST OF THE PUBLIC AT RISK, IT TAKES ON ANOTHER MEANING AND IT'S ANOTHER

                    MATTER.  AND IN THE END, BECAUSE OF THE DROPS IN VACCINATION RATES, I

                    KNOW THIS BILL DOES NOT GIVE ALL THE ANSWERS WE NEED.  I KNOW THERE IS

                    MORE WORK TO DO BECAUSE THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS ARE ONLY ONE PART OF

                    THIS.  SO THERE IS MORE WORK TO BE DONE.  BUT IN THE END, I HAVE TO VOTE

                    AFFIRMATIVELY BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS IN THE INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC

                    AT-LARGE, AND THAT IS THE SAFETY OF THE PUBLIC AT-LARGE, AND VACCINES HAVE

                    BEEN WHOLLY ENDORSED BY THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY.

                                 AND WITH THAT, AGAIN, I AM VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY IN THE

                                         120



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (BOOING/JEERING/YELLING)

                                 (ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY BANGING GAVEL.)

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 (ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY BANGING GAVEL.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  LADIES AND

                    GENTLEMEN, SHH.  LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, SHH.  LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

                    LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

                                 (JEERING/YELLING)

                                 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.  LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.  WE

                    APPRECIATE THAT YOU HAVE STAYED HERE.  WE WOULD APPRECIATE YOU

                    CONTINUE TO RESPECT THE HOUSE.  YOU HAVE THE PERFECT FREEDOM TO GO

                    OUTSIDE AND MAKE THE NOISE YOU WANT, BUT WE WILL NOT ALLOW IT IN

                    CHAMBERS [SIC].  WE ARE STILL IN SESSION.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, COULD YOU

                    PLEASE CALL THE HOUSE IN RECESS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL STAND

                                         121



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    IN RECESS.

                                 (WHEREUPON, THE HOUSE STOOD IN RECESS.)



                    ******

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    BACK TO ORDER.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WE ARE GOING TO GO BACK TO WHERE WE LEFT OFF AT, ON PAGE 15.

                    WE'LL BE STARTING WITH 138 BY MR. PALUMBO.  I WILL SAY, THOUGH, MR.

                    SPEAKER, IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY THUS FAR.  WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF BILLS

                    THAT WE CAN STILL GET THROUGH ON CONSENT, AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO

                    CALL AT LEAST THREE ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE MEETINGS.  IN FACT, WHEN I'M

                    DONE SPEAKING, IF YOU COULD CALL THE CODES COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S

                    CONFERENCE ROOM WE WILL START THERE.  AND FOLLOWING CODES WE WILL

                    DO WAYS AND MEANS AND RULES.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, THAT'S THE GENERAL ORDER OF WHERE WE'RE

                    GOING THIS EVENING.  I BELIEVE MR. GOODELL HAS SOME COMMENTS HE'D

                    LIKE TO MAKE, AND CALL CODES SOON AS HE'S DONE, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MR. GOODELL FOR AN

                    INTRODUCTION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AS YOU

                    MAY RECALL, I -- I STARTED AN INTRODUCTION BEFORE WE TOOK A RECESS, AND

                    HAD SUCH A WILD AND ENTHUSIASTIC RESPONSE I WAS UNABLE TO COMPLETE IT

                    BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WERE SO EXCITED TO SEE OUR FORMER FLOOR LEADER,

                                         122



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    TOM MCKEVITT, JOINING US HERE ON THE FLOOR.  AND WE LOVE IT WHEN MR.

                    MCKEVITT COMES BACK AND SEES HOW SMOOTHLY WE OPERATE HERE ON THE

                    ASSEMBLY, HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED FOR THE BETTER.  AND, OF COURSE, WE

                    ARE DELIGHTED TO HAVE HIM HERE BECAUSE WE VALUE HIS COUNSEL, WHICH HE

                    IS FREE TO SHARE WITH US AT ANY TIME.

                                 SO IF YOU WOULD AGAIN WELCOME OUR FORMER FLOOR

                    LEADER, TOM MCKEVITT, A GREAT FRIEND TO ALL OF US HERE, TO THE FLOOR OF

                    THE ASSEMBLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. GOODELL, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS HERE, MR. MCKEVITT,

                    I'M SURE YOU MISS THIS PLACE, ESPECIALLY WITNESSING WHAT YOU JUST DID A

                    COUPLE OF MINUTES AGO.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 BUT, OF COURSE, YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME HERE.  YOU

                    ARE ONE OF US, YOU ARE FAMILY.  SO ON BEHALF OF EVERYONE, THANK YOU FOR

                    JOINING US.  I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE PROCEEDINGS.  AND, OF COURSE, THE

                    PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR ARE ALWAYS YOURS.  SO, WELCOME BACK.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 CODES COMMITTEE IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

                    PLEASE MAKE YOUR WAY TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IF YOU'RE ON

                    THE CODES COMMITTEE.

                                 PAGE 15, RULES REPORT NO. 138, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05806, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 138, PALUMBO, DESTEFANO, MORINELLO, FRIEND.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 399 OF THE LAWS OF 2008 RELATING TO GIVING CERTAIN

                                         123



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WESTCHESTER COUNTY TOWN BOARDS THE DISCRETION TO CHANGE SPEED LIMITS,

                    IN RELATION TO GIVING THE TOWN BOARD OF THE TOWN OF RIVERHEAD,

                    COUNTY OF SUFFOLK, THE DISCRETION TO CHANGE SPEED LIMITS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS

                    AT THE DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF WE CAN

                    NOW GO TO OUR DEBATE LIST.  WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP THE BILLS IN THIS

                    ORDER:  RULES REPORT NO. 77 IS ON PAGE 5 IT'S BY MR. ABBATE.  RULES

                    REPORT NO. 163 IS ON PAGE 29 BY MS. ROSENTHAL.  AND RULES REPORT

                    NO. 246 BY MR. BLAKE IS ON PAGE 35.  FOLLOWING THAT, MR. SPEAKER,

                    WE'RE GOING TO GO TO CALENDAR NO. 525 ON PAGE 52 BY MR. RYAN, AND

                    CALENDAR NO. 536 ON PAGE 53 BY MR. GOTTFRIED.  IN THAT ORDER, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                         124



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S03675, RULES REPORT NO.

                    77, SENATOR GOUNARDES (A04432, ABBATE, COLTON).  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO ACCIDENTAL

                    DISABILITY RETIREMENT FOR UNIFORMED COURT OFFICERS AND PEACE OFFICERS

                    EMPLOYED IN THE UNIFIED COURT SYSTEM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. DENDEKKER TO -- NOPE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 39, CALENDAR NO. 163.

                                 (PAUSE)


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07289, CALENDAR NO.

                    163, BARRETT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW.


                                 ASSEMBLY NO. A00456-A, CALENDAR NO. 163,

                    L. ROSENTHAL, BLAKE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE BUSINESS CORPORATION LAW

                    AND THE NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE

                    BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF RESIDENTIAL COOPERATIVE CORPORATIONS AND

                    NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATIONS TO PROVIDE TENANTS WITH CHANGES TO THE

                    BY-LAWS IN WRITING WITHIN TEN DAYS OF ADOPTION; IN RELATION TO

                    NOTIFICATION TO TENANTS OF CHANGES AFFECTING OCCUPANCY OR THE RULES OF

                                         125



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THE BUILDING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    ROSENTHAL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE -- SENATE

                    BILL IS ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, JUST A BIT

                    OF A GLITCH ON THE PAGE NUMBERS THAT WERE ISSUED EARLIER.  SO, WE'RE

                    GOING TO GO TO THE NEXT BILL.  IT'S CALENDAR NO. 246 BY MR. BLAKE, AND

                    IT'S ACTUALLY ON PAGE 46.  AND THEN OUR SECOND TWO BILLS THAT WILL BE ON

                    DEBATE IS CALENDAR NO. 525 BY MR. RYAN.  IT'S ACTUALLY ON PAGE 62.

                    AND MR. GOTTFRIED'S 536 IS ACTUALLY ON PAGE 63.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05175, CALENDAR NO.

                    246, BLAKE, BARRON, COOK, CRESPO, DE LA ROSA, GOTTFRIED, HYNDMAN,

                                         126



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    MOSLEY, ORTIZ, PHEFFER AMATO, PICHARDO, RICHARDSON, SEAWRIGHT,

                    TAYLOR, WALKER, ARROYO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PRIVATE HOUSING

                    FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING AN ELECTRONIC AUTOMATED

                    SYSTEM FOR APPLICATIONS AND WAITING LISTS, AND TO DEVELOP A WRITTEN

                    PROCEDURE FOR APPLICANT SELECTION AND REJECTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06062, CALENDAR NO.

                    525, RYAN, GOTTFRIED, WRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO PROHIBITING THE EXCLUSION OF COVERAGE FOR LOSSES OR DAMAGES

                    CAUSED BY EXPOSURE TO LEAD-BASED PAINT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. RYAN.

                                 MR. RYAN:  THIS BILL WOULD PROHIBIT A PRACTICE

                    CALLED THE LEAD POISONING EXCLUSION THAT'S CURRENTLY FOUND IN MOST

                    GENERAL LIABILITY INSURANCE POLICIES.  CURRENTLY, THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    FINANCIAL SERVICES SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS AN INSURANCE COMPANY TO WRITE

                    GENERAL LIABILITY POLICIES THAT SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDE LEAD POISONING

                                         127



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    CLAIMS FROM THEIR COVERAGE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  WOULD THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MR. RYAN:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RYAN YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. RYAN.  IT'S MY

                    UNDERSTANDING THAT OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, THE INCIDENCE OF LEAD

                    BEING DETECTED IN CHILDREN HAS DROPPED DRAMATICALLY.  I SAW THERE WAS

                    AN 84 PERCENT DROP FROM MARCH 2009 TO 2000 -- I'M SORRY, FROM 2004

                    TO 2009.  WELL, WHAT IS THE PERCENTAGE OF CHILDREN THAT HAVE ANY

                    INDICATION OF LEAD CURRENTLY?

                                 MR. RYAN:  IT'S INTERESTING, MR. GOODELL.  SO

                    STATEWIDE, THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE POISONED HAVE DROPPED, MOSTLY

                    BECAUSE OF LEAD AWARENESS PROGRAMS.  BUT -- BUT HERE -- HERE IS WHAT

                    THE STATISTICS DON'T SHOW.  IN CITIES LIKE THE CITY OF BUFFALO, REUTERS

                    RECENTLY DID AN INVESTIGATION WHERE THEY FOUND THAT FOUR ZIP CODES IN

                    THE CITY OF BUFFALO HAD OVER 40 PERCENT OF THE CHILDREN WHO WERE

                    TESTED TESTED FOR HIGH LEAD LEVELS.  SO IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THE LEAD

                    POISONING PROBLEM IN NEW YORK STATE IS MOSTLY DEFINED IN CLUSTERS.

                    AND IT'S DEFINED IN CLUSTERS WHERE THERE SEEMS TO BE A PERFECT STORM OF

                    AGING HOUSING STOCK COMBINED WITH POORLY MAINTAINED HOUSING STOCK.

                    SO YOU'LL SEE IN CITIES LIKE BUFFALO, SYRACUSE, UTICA, BINGHAMTON,

                    REALLY HIGH LEAD POISONING RATES.  BUT YOU WON'T SEE THOSE RATES IN THE

                    SUBURBS, BECAUSE MOSTLY AFTER 1978 WHEN THE PAINT WAS STOPPED BEING

                                         128



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    USED WIDELY, NO NEW-BUILD CONSTRUCTIONS HAPPENED ANYMORE.  SO THE

                    NEWER-BUILT, THE BETTER-MAINTAINED HOUSES, LESS OF A PROBLEM BECAUSE

                    OF THE AWARENESS.  THE POORLY MAINTAINED, OLDER RENTAL STOCK, MORE

                    ACUTE PROBLEM BECAUSE WHILE THERE IS AWARENESS, THERE'S NOTHING IN THE

                    VIRTUOUS ECONOMIC CYCLE WHICH WOULD MAKE ANY LANDLORD DO REPAIRS TO

                    THEIR PREMISES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND, OF COURSE, THIS BILL DOESN'T

                    IMPOSE NEW STANDARDS ON LANDLORDS, DOES IT?

                                 MR. RYAN:  IT DOESN'T IMPOSE STANDARDS.  BUT YOU

                    HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY OF THE EXEMPTION.  SO, THROUGHOUT THE

                    HISTORY, THE DEPARTMENT SAID, WE DON'T ALLOW LEAD EXEMPTIONS, AND

                    THEN THEY ALLOWED LEAD EXEMPTIONS.  NOW WE'RE BACK TO NOT ALLOWING

                    LEAD EXEMPTIONS.  SO FOR NEARLY 20 YEARS, YOU KNOW, LANDLORDS HAVE

                    GOTTEN INSURANCE POLICIES.  THEY PAY THE MONEY TO THEIR INSURANCE

                    COMPANY, SOMEONE GETS POISONED ON THEIR PREMISES AND THEY SUBMIT A

                    CLAIM.  AND GUESS WHAT THE LANDLORD'S TOLD?  YOU HAVE TO GO TO PAGE 46

                    IN THE SMALL PRINT, AND IN THAT SMALL PRINT IT SAYS WE DON'T COVER LEAD

                    POISONING CLAIMS.  SO THAT LEAVES THE LANDLORD IN A LURCH FOR A PRODUCT

                    THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE PAYING FOR, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE FAMILY OF

                    THE CHILD WHO WAS POISONED IS LEFT WITH NO RECOURSE.  AND GUESS WHO

                    PAYS FOR THAT, MR. GOODELL?  EVERY TAXPAYER OF NEW YORK STATE.  SO

                    WE ARE PAYING FOR THE MEDICAL AND THE HOSPITALIZATION FOR KIDS WHO ARE

                    POISONED BY LEAD.  WE THEN PAY FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION SERVICES FOR

                    CHILDREN WHO ARE POISONED BY LEAD.  AND GOD FORBID IF THE POISONING IS

                    SEVERE ENOUGH, WE PAY FOR VESID SERVICES FOR THAT, ALL BECAUSE THE

                                         129



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    SUPERINTENDENT AND THE DEPARTMENT HAVE ALLOWED INSURANCE COMPANIES

                    TO SPECIFICALLY NOT COVER THIS INJURY.  THEY DON'T ALLOW THEM TO SAY,

                    WE'RE NOT GOING TO COVER TRAMPOLINE INJURIES.  WE'RE NOT GOING TO

                    COVER SLIP AND FALLS ON STAIRWAYS.  JUST LEAD PAINT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO MY QUESTION, THEN, IS A LITTLE BIT

                    OF A FOLLOW-UP.  IS THERE A RECOGNIZED CAUSE OF ACTION BY A TENANT

                    AGAINST A LANDLORD FOR THE PRESENCE OF LEAD?

                                 MR. RYAN:  YEAH, THERE IS A RECOGNIZED CAUSE OF

                    ACTION.  MOST CASES DON'T PROCEED NOT BECAUSE OF LACK OF PROOF, BECAUSE

                    OF LACK -- LACK OF MONEY.  NO ONE'S GOING TO SUE A LANDLORD FOR A VALUE

                    OF A HOUSE, ESPECIALLY THE HOUSING STOCK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.  OFTEN,

                    THE RENTAL PROPERTIES ARE VALUED AT UNDER $50,000.  SO USUALLY WHEN

                    THERE'S NO INSURANCE COVERAGE, THE -- THE LAWSUIT DISAPPEARS.  SO

                    ORDINARILY WHEN THE RESPONSE COMES BACK THAT THERE'S NO INSURANCE

                    COMPANY -- NO INSURANCE COVERAGE, THE CLAIM GOES AWAY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT MOST OF

                    THESE POLICIES ARE WRITTEN ON A 36-MONTH TIME PERIOD, A THREE-MONTH --

                    OR A THREE-YEAR PERIOD.  BUT THIS BILL ONLY APPLIES -- APPLIES AND

                    BECOMES EFFECTIVE IN 26 MONTHS.  WHY 26 MONTHS RATHER THAN A TYPICAL

                    36-MONTH INSURANCE POLICY?

                                 MR. RYAN:  WE CHOSE 26 MONTHS FOR TWO REASONS:

                    ONE IS TO GET THE WORD OUT THERE TO ALL THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, AND

                    BECAUSE IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THE POLICIES ARE GENERALLY WRITTEN ON A

                    24-MONTH BASIS, NOT A 36-MONTH BASIS.  SO WE CHOSE 24 AND ADDED TWO

                    MONTHS FOR -- FOR LEAD TIME.

                                         130



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD BY THE

                    AMERICAN PROPERTY CASUALTY INSURANCE ASSOCIATION IS THAT IT'S A

                    MANDATORY THREE-YEAR POLICY TERM UNDER CURRENT LAW.  SHOULDN'T THIS

                    THEN TRACK THAT TIME PERIOD RATHER THAN TRYING TO IMPOSE NEW STANDARDS

                    IN THE MIDDLE OF A CONTRACT TERM?

                                 MR. RYAN:  YEAH, THAT'S NOT MY UNDERSTANDING.  MY

                    -- MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE PRACTICE IS -- IS 24 MONTHS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, ALSO, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY

                    HAS SAID THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON

                    PREMIUMS.  HAVE YOU BEEN IN CONTACT WITH ANY OF THE INSURANCE

                    COMPANIES AND GETTING AN IDEA FROM THEM WHAT KIND OF AN IMPACT IT

                    WOULD HAVE ON INSURANCE PREMIUMS?

                                 MR. RYAN:  I HAVE SPOKEN TO THEM, AND THEY VOICED

                    CONCERN THAT THIS COULD MAKE PREMIUMS GO UP.  AND I DID ASK FOR ANY

                    DATA OR ANY IDEA OF HOW MUCH AND THE ANSWER WAS, YOU KNOW, WE

                    DON'T HAVE THAT DATA, BUT WE THINK IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT GO UP.  I DID

                    REMIND THEM THAT FOR, YOU KNOW, DECADES IN NEW YORK STATE THIS

                    COVERAGE WAS A ROUTINE PART OF -- OF INSURANCE, BUT IT WAS REALLY

                    THROUGH SUCCESSFUL LOBBYING THAT BY ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION THEY WERE

                    GIVEN PERMISSION, YOU KNOW, NOT -- NOT TO COVER THIS PARTICULAR CLAIM.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, EVEN WITH THIS BILL IN PLACE,

                    LANDLORDS HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO PURCHASE INSURANCE, CORRECT?

                                 MR. RYAN:  NO.  THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OBLIGATION.

                    MOST LANDLORDS, YOU KNOW, DO PURCHASE INSURANCE.  PRIMARILY BECAUSE

                    INSTEAD OF -- NOT BECAUSE OF CLAIMS FROM INJURIES, BUT BECAUSE OF IF

                                         131



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THERE'S A CATASTROPHIC LOSS OR A FIRE ON THE PROPERTY.  AND AS YOU KNOW,

                    MR. GOODELL, ANYBODY WHO CARRIES A MORTGAGE IS REQUIRED BY THEIR

                    BANK ALSO TO CARRY INSURANCE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, THE ONLY THING A MORTGAGE

                    CARRIER REQUIRES IS CASUALTY INSURANCE, NOT LIABILITY INSURANCE.  BUT THIS

                    IS NOT CHANGED BY THIS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. RYAN:  IT IS NOT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    RYAN.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I APPRECIATE MR. RYAN'S FOCUS ON

                    ADDRESSING LEAD.  AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD OTHER BILLS ADDRESSING THE

                    LEAD CONTENT IN DRINKING WATER AND OTHER EFFORTS.  AND, THANKFULLY, THE

                    AMOUNT OF LEAD EXPOSURE HAS DRAMATICALLY.  OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS

                    WE'VE SEEN A 64 PERCENT DROP, WHICH IS VERY POSITIVE NEWS.

                    UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT HAPPENS IS IF YOU REQUIRE THIS INSURANCE, WE'VE

                    BEEN ADVISED BY THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY THAT THERE WILL BE A SIGNIFICANT

                    INCREASE IN THE PREMIUMS.  AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, TWO THINGS HAPPEN:

                    FIRST, IF THE -- A LOT OF THE LANDLORDS SIMPLY WON'T BUY LIABILITY

                    INSURANCE.  AND THE VERY LANDLORDS WHO WON'T BUY LIABILITY INSURANCE

                    ARE THE VERY LANDLORDS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED BY MY COLLEAGUE AS HAVING

                    OLDER HOUSING STOCK THAT'S NOT WELL-MAINTAINED BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE

                    MUCH AT RISK.  AND WHEN THE COST OF INSURANCE GOES UP, THE NUMBER OF

                                         132



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    PEOPLE THAT BUY IT GOES DOWN.  THE SECOND THING THAT WILL HAPPEN IS FOR

                    THOSE THAT DO BUY INSURANCE, THE INCREASED COST WILL BE PASSED ON IN THE

                    FORM OF HIGHER RENT.  AND, OF COURSE, THAT HIGHER RENT CREATES A NEW

                    BURDEN FOR THE TENANTS.  AND AS MY COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT, THOSE ARE

                    TYPICALLY TENANTS THAT ARE IN OLDER HOUSES WHERE THE RENT WOULD

                    NORMALLY BE LOWER BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD A HIGHER RENT.  AND SO

                    THERE'S UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ON THIS THAT GO WELL BEYOND THE INITIAL

                    INTENT OF THE BILL.

                                 AND SO WHILE I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE AND SUPPORT THE

                    DESIRE TO REDUCE LEAD EXPOSURE AND AM VERY THANKFUL WE'RE MAKING

                    TREMENDOUS PROGRESS, I'M HESITANT TO SUPPORT A BILL THAT WOULD KICK IN

                    IN THE MIDDLE OF A POLICY PERIOD, IN VIOLATION OF THE US CONSTITUTIONAL

                    CONTRACT CLAUSE, WOULD HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON PREMIUMS, AND AS A

                    RESULT, A MAJOR IMPACT ON RENTS.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.  AND THANK YOU TO MY

                    COLLEAGUE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RYAN.

                                 MR. RYAN:  ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. RYAN:  SO, THERE ARE DEFINITELY INCREASED COSTS

                    ASSOCIATED WITH LEAD POISONING.  BUT RIGHT NOW, THOSE COSTS ARE GOING

                    TO THE TAXPAYERS.  SO WE'RE, IN FACT, SUBSIDIZING THE INSURANCE COMPANY

                    FOR INJURIES THAT SHOULD BE COVERED BY THEM.  SO I UNDERSTAND THE

                    CONCEPT OF INCREASED COSTS, BUT I PREFER TO PUT THOSE INCREASED COSTS OFF

                    THE TAXPAYER BACK AND ON TO THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHERE THEY

                                         133



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    SHOULD BE.  AND THEN THERE'S AN INTENTIONALITY BEHIND THIS BILL, AND

                    THERE'S GOING TO BE INTENDED CONSEQUENCES.  AND THE INTENDED

                    CONSEQUENCES ARE TO CREATE A VIRTUOUS ECONOMIC CYCLE.  AND RIGHT NOW

                    IN LEAD POISONING CASES, THERE IS NO VIRTUOUS CYCLE.  SO USUALLY, SUPPLY

                    AND DEMAND AND REGULATIONS ARE USED TO FIX DANGEROUS PROBLEMS, BUT IN

                    THIS CASE THE CYCLE IS SUBSTANDARD HOUSING.  A CHILD'S POISONED.  THE

                    CHILD MOVES OUT OF THE HOUSE.  ANOTHER CHILD MOVED IN, AND THAT CHILD

                    IS POISONED.  SO NOWHERE IN THE MIX IS THERE ANY INCENTIVE FOR THE

                    LANDLORD TO MAKE REPAIRS AND TO FIX THE CONDITIONS THAT LEAD TO LEAD

                    POISONING.  THE INSURANCE COMPANY GETS A CLAIM AND DENIES IT, AND

                    THEN THERE'S NO INCENTIVE.  SO IF YOU COMPARE THAT TO A LANDLORD WHO

                    HAS A SITUATION WITH, SAY, A DANGEROUS STAIRCASE, THERE'S AN INJURY,

                    THERE'S A CLAIM AND THE INSURANCE COMPANY SAYS, WE'RE NOT REWRITING

                    YOUR POLICY UNLESS YOU FIX THAT DANGEROUS CONDITION.  SO WE WANT TO

                    PUT IN THE CYCLE AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THE DANGEROUS CONDITION, AND

                    THEN HAVE THE INSURANCE COMPANY SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL GET A DISCOUNT

                    IF YOU DO HAVE A LEAD-SAFE HOUSE, JUST LIKE WE DO WITH SMOKE DETECTORS.

                    SO WE'RE GOING TO PUT THIS INTO IT, AND I AM CONFIDENT THAT BY DOING THIS,

                    WE WILL TAKE THE COST OFF THE TAXPAYERS FOR THIS LEAD POISONING.  AND

                    SECONDLY, WE WILL REDUCE THE INCIDENCE OF LEAD POISONING BECAUSE THERE

                    WILL BE FINALLY AN INCENTIVE TO KEEP PROPERTIES IN GOOD REPAIR.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         134



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06983-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 536, GOTTFRIED, PAULIN, NIOU, PERRY, HEVESI, SAYEGH, L. ROSENTHAL,

                    SIMOTAS, KIM, QUART, EPSTEIN, MOSLEY, AUBRY, JAFFEE, D'URSO, WALKER,

                    CRUZ, STECK, PERRY, DICKENS, HUNTER, ARROYO, CROUCH, ORTIZ, REYES,

                    COOK, SIMON, RAYNOR, WALCZYK, RIVERA, SEAWRIGHT, LIFTON, FERNANDEZ,

                    GLICK, BLAKE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO VACATING CONVICTIONS FOR OFFENSES RESULTING FROM SEX

                    TRAFFICKING, LABOR TRAFFICKING AND COMPELLING PROSTITUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  IN 2010, WE

                    WERE THE FIRST STATE IN THE UNION TO PASS A LAW ABOUT VACATING

                    CONVICTIONS THAT -- FOR PROSTITUTION THAT RESULTED FROM A PERSON BEING

                    SEX TRAFFICKED.  WITHIN A COUPLE OF YEARS, A WHOLE BUNCH OF STATES

                    COPIED OUR LAW, AND WITHIN A COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER THAT, A WHOLE BUNCH

                    OF STATES BROADENED THEIR LAWS WELL BEYOND OURS.  AND SO WE ARE NOW

                    -- WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS KIND OF CATCH UP WITH A LOT OF STATES.  IT MAKES

                    FOUR OR FIVE MAJOR CHANGES IN THE LAW.  ONE IS THAT WITHIN THE DISCRETION

                    OF THE JUDGE, A MOTION CAN BE GRANTED VACATING CONVICTION FOR ANY

                                         135



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    OFFENSE THAT RESULTS FROM SOMEBODY BEING SEX TRAFFICKED, LABOR

                    TRAFFICKED, ET CETERA.  IT REPEALS A -- A REQUIREMENT THAT THE MOTION FOR

                    CLEARING UP THE CRIMINAL RECORD BE MADE WITH DUE DILIGENCE.  IT

                    PROVIDES THAT THE PAPERWORK IN THE MOTION CAN BE KEPT CONFIDENTIAL.  IT

                    ALLOWS FOR THE CONSOLIDATING OF MOTIONS, BECAUSE VERY OFTEN THERE MAY

                    BE DIFFERENT OFFENSES BEING CLEARED UP IN -- IN -- IN MORE THAN ONE

                    JURISDICTION.  AND FINALLY, IT PROVIDES SOME BOILER-PLATE LANGUAGE THAT

                    THE VACATING OF THE CONVICTION SHALL BE DEEMED TO BE ON THE MERITS.

                    AND THAT IS IMPORTANT SO THAT THE VACATING OF THE CONVICTION HAS MORE

                    LEGAL VALUE FOR THE TRAFFICKING VICTIM GOING FORWARD.  THIS IS ALL ABOUT

                    ENABLING VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING TO CLEAR UP CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS FROM

                    OFFENSES THEY WERE COERCED INTO SO THAT ONCE THEY ARE FREED FROM THE

                    CHAINS OF TRAFFICKING, THEY CAN REALLY GET ON WITH A - WITH A PRODUCTIVE

                    LIFE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WILL YOU YIELD, MR.

                    GOTTFRIED?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.  AS YOU

                    CORRECTLY POINTED OUT - THANK YOU FOR THAT EXPLANATION - THAT THE CURRENT

                    LAW ALLOWS FOR MOTION TO VACATE A CONVICTION IF IT'S DIRECTLY RELATED TO

                    ELICIT SEX OFFENSES IF THE PERPETRATOR - THE DEFENDANT, IF YOU WILL - WAS A

                                         136



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING.  I THINK THAT'S THE CURRENT LAW.  AND YOU SAID

                    THIS EXPANDS IT TO COVER ANY CONVICTION RELATED TO THAT INDIVIDUAL.  IS

                    THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  IN THE DISCRETION OF THE COURT,

                    YES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO JUST AS AN EXAMPLE -- WELL,

                    PERHAPS YOU CAN GIVE US EXAMPLES OF OTHER CONVICTIONS THAT WERE

                    UNRELATED TO SEX TRAFFICKING THAT THIS WOULD NOW OPEN UP FOR A MOTION

                    TO VACATE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, A TRAFFICKING

                    VICTIM MAY HAVE BEEN COMPELLED TO PARTICIPATE IN DRUG OFFENSES.  OR

                    SHOPLIFTING OR HOLDING UP A STORE.  OR, YOU KNOW, ANY NUMBER OF A

                    VARIETY OF THINGS THAT SOMEONE COULD HAVE BEEN COERCED INTO BEING PART

                    OF.  THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THE -- THE PREFACE TO THIS

                    SECTION, THE LEAD INTO IT WHICH DOESN'T APPEAR ON THE PAGE IN THE BILL BUT

                    IS IN THE PENAL LAW, MAKES THE WHOLE THING IN THE DISCRETION OF THE

                    JUDGE WHERE YOU MAKE THE MOTION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO, LOOK -- LOOKING AT YOUR

                    EXAMPLES, THERE'S NO LIMITATION, THEN, ON WHAT OTHER CONVICTIONS MIGHT

                    BE VACATED AS LONG AS IT WAS IN THE DISCRETION OF THE JUDGE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO THERE'S NO LIMITATION FOR

                    SERIOUS FELONIES OR OTHER CRIMES?  IT COVERS ALL OTHER CONVICTIONS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THAT IS CORRECT.  BECAUSE THERE'S

                    REALLY NO LIMIT ON WHAT TRAFFICKERS CAN COMPEL PEOPLE WHO ARE

                                         137



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    ESSENTIALLY THEIR SLAVES TO COMMIT.  I MEAN, BASICALLY THESE ARE OFTEN --

                    TRAFFICKING VICTIMS ARE -- ARE -- ARE, YOU KNOW, UNDER THE TOTAL CONTROL

                    OF -- OF THE TRAFFICKER AND ARE REALLY NOT ACTING OUT OF ANYTHING CLOSE TO

                    FREE WILL.  BUT AGAIN, IT'S ALL IN THE DISCRETION OF THE JUDGE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW YOU MENTIONED THIS ALSO

                    ELIMINATES ANY DUE DILIGENCE REQUIREMENT.  IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I'M SORRY, CAN YOU SAY THAT

                    AGAIN?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  YOU INDICATED THAT THIS ALSO WOULD

                    ELIMINATE ANY DUE DILIGENCE REQUIREMENT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.  THE LAW CURRENTLY REQUIRES

                    THAT ONCE THE -- THE TRAFFICKING VICTIM IS -- IS OUT OF TRAFFICKING AND IS --

                    IS NO LONGER RECEIVING SUPPORTIVE SERVICES, ET CETERA, AND IS OUT OF

                    DANGER, THE MOTION MUST BE MADE WITH DUE DILIGENCE.  THAT REALLY

                    DOESN'T SERVE ANY PURPOSE EXCEPT TO BE RESTRICTIVE.  SO THE BILL WOULD

                    TAKE THAT OUT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO A MOTION COULD BE MADE TO

                    VACATE THESE CONVICTIONS POSSIBLY YEARS LATER, THEN.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  CONCEIVABLY.  OBVIOUSLY, THE

                    LONGER THE -- THE VICTIM WAITS, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT WILL BE TO MAKE HIS

                    OR HER CASE.  BUT IT MAY ALSO GIVE THE PERSON AN OPPORTUNITY TO

                    DEMONSTRATE TO THE JUDGE THAT HE OR SHE HAS CHANGED HIS OR HER LIFE.

                    BUT IN ANY EVENT, THE DUE DILIGENCE REQUIREMENT DOESN'T REALLY SERVE

                    ANY PURPOSE.  IT'S NOT COMMON, AS FAR AS I KNOW, IN -- IN OTHER RECORD

                    CLEARANCE PIECES IN THE LAW, AND SO WE WOULD BE DELETING IT.

                                         138



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. GOODELL:  IS THERE ANY REQUIREMENT UNDER THIS

                    BILL THAT THE PERSON THAT WAS THE SEX TRAFFICKER BE ARRESTED OR CONVICTED

                    OF SEX TRAFFICKING IN ORDER TO TRIGGER THIS?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  NO, BECAUSE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT

                    HAVE BEEN THE CASE.  IT MAY OR MAY NOT -- IT MAY WELL BE VERY DIFFICULT

                    FOR THE VICTIM TO DEMONSTRATE.  THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A -- A CLEAR

                    FINDING THAT -- THAT THE OFFENSES WERE THE RESULT OF TRAFFICKING, BUT THE --

                    THE TRAFFICKING PERPETRATOR MAY BE UNAVAILABLE, MAY BE DEAD.  ANY

                    NUMBER OF REASONS WHY THERE MIGHT NOT BE A RECORD OF CONVICTION OF

                    THE TRAFFICKER.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    GOTTFRIED.  AS ALWAYS, I APPRECIATE YOUR -- YOUR THOUGHTS AND YOUR

                    CLARIFICATIONS ON THIS BILL.

                                 ON THIS BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  MANY OF US ARE VERY CONCERNED

                    ABOUT CRIME IN OUR COMMUNITY, AND UNDERSTANDABLY SO.  WE'RE ALSO, OF

                    COURSE, SYMPATHETIC TO THE VICTIMS OF SEX TRAFFICKING.  WHAT THIS BILL

                    SAYS IS, AS WAS EXPLAINED BY MY COLLEAGUE, IS THAT A VICTIM OF SEX

                    TRAFFICKING, IN THE DISCRETION OF THE COURT, COULD GET A FREE PASS FOR ANY

                    CRIME.  AS MY COLLEAGUE NOTED, THAT WOULD INCLUDE HOLDING UP A

                    GROCERY STORE OR KNOCKING OFF A LIQUOR STORE OR ENGAGING IN ASSAULT.

                    AND SINCE THERE'S NO LIMIT AT ALL IN THIS BILL, IT COULD EVEN INCLUDE THINGS

                    LIKE ANOTHER RAPE OR KIDNAPPING OR EXTORTION OR -- OR EVEN MURDER.  AND

                    SO WE NOW RAISE A NEW DEFENSE, AND THE DEFENSE IS, SURE, I KIDNAPPED

                                         139



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THIS OTHER WOMAN AND I BROUGHT HER IN, BUT I WAS ASKED TO DO SO OR

                    FORCED TO DO SO BY MY PIMP.  SO WHAT'S THAT MEAN TO THE AVERAGE NEW

                    YORK RESIDENT WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE HELD UP ON THE STREET CORNER AT

                    GUNPOINT OR AT KNIFEPOINT OR BE ASSAULTED OR ATTACKED?  THIS GIVES A

                    FREE PASS.  ALL THE -- THE DEFENDANT HAS TO DO IS SAY, HEY, I'M A VICTIM OF

                    SEX TRAFFICKING.  DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE PIMP ARRESTED.  DON'T HAVE TO

                    IDENTIFY THE PIMP.  DON'T HAVE TO FILE A POLICE REPORT.  AND INSTEAD, YOU

                    CAN SAY, HEY, I'M SORRY I KILLED YOUR GRANDMOTHER.  IT WAS A ROBBERY.

                    SHE DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH MONEY AS I THOUGHT.  BUT I'M A VICTIM OF SEX

                    TRAFFICKING AND, THEREFORE, I SHOULD HAVE MY CONVICTION VACATED.  AND

                    IT GOES ON.  YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THAT MOTION RIGHT AWAY.  YOU CAN

                    WAIT YEARS.  WE'VE ELIMINATED ANY REQUIREMENT THAT THE MOTION BE MADE

                    WITH DUE DILIGENCE.  AND TO CAP IT OFF, THAT MOTION, EVEN IF YOU'VE BEEN

                    PREVIOUSLY ARRE -- ARRESTED AND CONVICTED -- THIS IS A 440 MOTION.  SO

                    THIS IS AFTER YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN ARRESTED AND CONVICTED.  YOU CAN MAKE

                    THE MOTION TO VACATE IT, AND IF THE MOTION IS GRANTED IT IS AS THOUGH YOU

                    WERE ACQUITTED.

                                 SO IT'S A GREAT THING IF YOU'RE INVOLVED IN THIS TYPE OF

                    CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE.  IT'S A HORRIFIC THING IF YOU WANT SAFE

                    NEIGHBORHOODS AND DON'T WANT PEOPLE GETTING AN EXCUSE FOR

                    COMMITTING HORRIFIC CRIMES WITHOUT LIMIT AGAINST ANY OF OUR FRIENDS AND

                    OUR NEIGHBORS AND OTHERS IN OUR DISTRICTS.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.  AND AGAIN, THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED

                    FOR YOUR EXPLANATIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         140



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. CRUZ TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AS A FORMER

                    INVESTIGATOR OF LABOR TRAFFICKING FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, I WANT TO

                    THANK THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN FIRSTHAND WHAT IT

                    MEANS FOR A PERSON WHO HAS FOUND THEMSELVES AS A SURVIVOR OF

                    TRAFFICKING TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH A CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, AND THE

                    TYPES OF CRIMES THAT SOMETIMES GET COMMITTED AND THAT THEY'RE FORCED

                    INTO BECAUSE THEY ARE COMPELLED.  BECAUSE THEIR -- THEIR IDENTIFICATION

                    IS WITHHELD.  BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING THIS AGAINST THEIR WILL.  AND -- AND

                    ON BEHALF OF THE UNFORTUNATE THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS THAT ARE OUT THERE AND

                    THAT WE'VE YET TO FIND, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR.  I'M GOING TO VOTE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS THIS IS GOING

                    TO CHANGE THE LIVES OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

                                         141



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    COULD PLEASE CALL WAYS AND MEANS TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WAYS AND MEANS

                    COMMITTEE, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.  MS. WEINSTEIN AWAITS.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE'RE NOW

                    GOING TO GO -- CONTINUE OUR WORK WITH RULES REPORT [SIC] NO. 68.  IT IS

                    ON PAGE 33 [SIC] AND IT IS BY MS. RICHARDSON.  THEN WE'RE GOING TO GO

                    TO CALENDAR NO. 416.  IT'S ON PAGE 55 BY MRS. GUNTHER.  AND THEN

                    CALENDAR NO. 504 ON PAGE 60 BY MS. JEAN-PIERRE.

                                 (PAUSE)


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01527, CALENDAR NO.

                    68, RICHARDSON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW AND THE PENAL

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO TEMPORARY RELEASE ELIGIBILITY FOR JUDICIALLY-ORDERED

                    COMPREHENSIVE ALCOHOL AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  AN EXPLANATION

                    HAS BEEN REQUESTED, MS. RICHARDSON.

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS

                    BILL WILL EXPAND THE DEFINITION OF ELIGIBILITY FOR TEMPORARY RELEASE

                    PROGRAMS TO INCLUDE INMATES WHO WERE JUDICIALLY ORDERED TO CASAT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  YES, I DO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                         142



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, AM I CORRECT THAT UNDER

                    CURRENT LAW, IF YOU CAN THROUGH A COMPREHENSIVE ALCOHOL AND SUBSTANCE

                    ABUSE PROGRAM --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  I'M SORRY, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  I CAN'T HEAR HIM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MEMBERS, WE'RE

                    ON DEBATE.  PLEASE KEEP YOUR NOISE TO A MINIMUM.  THANK YOU.

                                 MY APOLOGIES, MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, MS.

                    RICHARDSON, THAT UNDER CURRENT LAW, IF AN INMATE GOES THROUGH A

                    COMPREHENSIVE ALCOHOL AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROGRAM AND THEY WOULD

                    BE ELIGIBLE FOR RELEASE ON PAROLE WITHIN TWO YEARS, THEY CAN BE, UNDER

                    THE CURRENT LAW, ELIGIBLE FOR A CONDITIONAL RELEASE.  IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  NO, IT IS NOT, MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO, HOW -- HOW'S THE CURRENT LAW

                    OPERATE?

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  WELL, WHAT THIS BILL WOULD DO

                    SPECIFICALLY, MR. GOODELL, IS THAT WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL IS JUDICIALLY

                    ORDERED BY A JUDGE TO CASAT, CURRENTLY THEY'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO

                    COMPLETE THE FIRST PHASE OF A THREE-STEP PROGRAM.  THIS IS A, YOU KNOW,

                    TREATMENT PROGRAM FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND

                    OTHER, YOU KNOW, TYPE OF ABUSES, ALCOHOL OR DRUG ABUSE.  SO IF WE'RE

                    ONLY ALLOWING THEM TO DO THE FIRST STEP OF THE THREE-STEP PROGRAM, IT IS

                    EXTREMELY DISRUPTIVE.  AND SO WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS ALLOW INDIVIDUALS

                                         143



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    TO GO ON TO THE SECOND STEP, AND THEN WITH THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO

                    PARTICIPATE IN WORK RELEASE, WHICH WILL ALLOW THEM TO SUCCESSFULLY

                    TRANSITION BACK INTO SOCIETY.  AND AS YOU DO KNOW, MR. GOODELL, BEFORE

                    YOU CONTINUE TO QUESTION ME, WE HAVE A SEVERE OPIOID AND DRUG, YOU

                    KNOW, EPIDEMIC HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  SO THIS BILL IS

                    EXTREMELY BENEFICIAL TO SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WE ALL REPRESENT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO, LET -- I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE

                    SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS.  SO, IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR A WORK RELEASE

                    UNDER THE CURRENT PROGRAM, YOU HAVE TO BE WITHIN TWO YEARS OF YOUR

                    PAROLE ELIGIBILITY.  IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  I'M SORRY, MR. GOODELL.  CAN

                    YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  CERTAINLY.  UNDER -- UNDER CURRENT

                    LAW - AND I'M LOOKING AT SECTION 60.04, SUBPARAGRAPH 6 OF THE PENAL

                    LAW - AN INDIVIDUAL HAS TO BE WITHIN TWO YEARS OF THEIR PAROLE DATE IN

                    ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR WORK RELEASE, CORRECT?

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  CURRENTLY -- I MEAN, CURRENTLY,

                    YES, MR. GOODELL.  BUT IF YOU READ THE TEXT VERY CAREFULLY, THIS IS A

                    JUDICIAL ORDER BY A JUDGE OF THIS PARTICULAR INMATE.  AND SO IT IS

                    EXTREMELY DISRUPTIVE FOR THE INMATE THAT A JUDGE WHO LOOKED AT ALL OF

                    THE FACTS OF THIS PERSON'S CASE ORDERED THEM TO THIS TYPE OF DRUG

                    TREATMENT, BUT WE ARE ONLY ALLOWING THEM TO COMPLETE PHASE ONE AND

                    NOT GO ON TO PHASE TWO.  BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, MR. GOODELL, PHASE

                    TWO IS THE WORK RELEASE PORTION OF IT.  AND IF SOMEONE HAS MORE THAN

                    TWO YEARS REMAINING ON THEIR SENTENCE THEY WILL NOT BE RELEASED EARLY.

                                         144



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THEY WILL JUST CONTINUE TO GO THROUGH WORK RELEASE UNTIL THEIR PAROLE

                    ELIGIBILITY DATE.  SO REALLY, WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN

                    EXPANDING THIS DEFINITION SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GET THE PROPER TREATMENT IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AND SO THAT WE CAN HAVE LOWER RECIDIVISM RATES

                    AND HAVE INDIVIDUALS TRANSITION SUCCESSFULLY BACK INTO SOCIETY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO, USING AN EXAMPLE, LET'S ASSUME

                    YOU HAVE AN INMATE WHO MIGHT HAVE MULTIPLE CHARGES, RIGHT.  THAT'S

                    NOT UNUSUAL.  YOU MIGHT BE CONVICTED OF A DRUG-RELATED CHARGE, BUT YOU

                    MIGHT ALSO BE CONVICTED OF SOME OTHER CHARGE, ASSAULT OR ROBBERY OR

                    BURGLARY, WHICH IS OFTEN THE SITUATION WITH THOSE WHO ARE ABUSING

                    DRUGS.  THEY HAVE MULTIPLE CHARGES.  AND YOU COULD THEN HAVE A

                    SENTENCE THAT IS QUITE EXTENSIVE.  FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS DISCUSSION

                    LET'S SAY IT WAS A TEN-YEAR SENTENCE, REFLECTING THE MULTIPLE CHARGES.

                    UNDER CURRENT LAW, YOU WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR WORK RELEASE UNTIL

                    YOU'VE COMPLETED YOUR ALCOHOL AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROGRAM THAT

                    WOULD BE COURT-ORDERED, AND YOU'RE WITHIN TWO YEARS, WHICH MEANS

                    YOUR EARLIEST ELIGIBILITY FOR WORK RELEASE, ASSUMING YOU WERE ELIGIBLE

                    FOR PAROLE AFTER -- AFTER TEN YEARS, WOULD BE AFTER EIGHT -- AFTER SERVING

                    EIGHT YEARS, RIGHT?  AND THEN YOU'D BE ELIGIBLE FOR WORK RELEASE FOR THE

                    LAST TWO.  UNDER THIS, IF THEY TOOK THE ALCOHOL AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE IN

                    YEAR ONE, THEY'D BE ELIGIBLE FOR WORK RELEASE AS SOON AS THEY COMPLETED

                    THE PROGRAM, CORRECT?

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  WELL, MR. GOODELL, YOU SAID A

                    LOT OF STATEMENTS AND ASKED A QUESTION IN THE BE -- END, SO I'M GOING TO

                    CLARIFY YOUR STATEMENTS.  NUMBER ONE, IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN IN THE BILL

                                         145



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THAT NO ONE WHO IS A VIOLENT FELON OR A VIOLENT OFFENDER WOULD BE

                    ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROGRAM.  THAT INCLUDES SEX CRIMES OR

                    HOMICIDE.  NUMBER TWO, MR. GOODELL, AS YOU ARE WELL AWARE, THERE ARE

                    SEVERAL CRIMES THAT FALL IN THE VIOLENT FELONY CATEGORY WHICH ACTUALLY DO

                    NOT ACTUALLY CARRY ANY VIOLENCE TO THEM, SUCH AS BURGLARY IN THE

                    SECOND DEGREE.  BUT, MR. GOODELL, AS PREVIOUSLY STATED, THIS IS ONLY TO

                    AMEND JUDICIALLY-ORDERED INMATES.  SO, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT A JUDGE, A

                    PERSON WHO IS SITTING ON THE BENCH WHO HAS REVIEWED ALL OF THE FACTS

                    ABOUT THIS INDIVIDUAL, AND THEY HAVE MADE THE DETERMINATION BASED

                    UPON THE CRIMES THAT THEY ARE BEING CHARGED FOR, TO ORDER THEM TO THIS

                    PARTICULAR PROGRAM.  AND AGAIN, MR. GOODELL, IF A PERSON HAS, LET'S SAY,

                    FOR YOUR EXAMPLE, TEN YEARS AND THEY DO THIS PROGRAM WITHIN THE FIRST

                    YEAR, THEY WOULD REMAIN ON WORK RELEASE UNTIL THEIR PAROLE ELIGIBILITY

                    DATE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND WHY -- DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA

                    WHY THE CURRENT PROGRAM ONLY MAKES THEM ELIGIBLE FOR WORK RELEASE

                    AFTER THEY'VE SERVED ALL THEIR SENTENCE EXCEPT FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS?

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  NO, MR. GOODELL.  BUT WHAT I

                    DO KNOW IS IS THAT WITH ANY KIND OF TREATMENT PROGRAM, WE ARE ALL

                    AWARE THAT TO START SOMETHING AND THEN TO STOP IT MIDWAY IS EXTREMELY

                    DISRUPTIVE IN SOMEONE'S PROGRESS.  AND I THINK THAT WE, AS MEMBERS OF

                    THE STATE LEGISLATURE, OWE IT TO THOSE THAT WE REPRESENT TO ENSURE THAT

                    EVERYONE IS GETTING THE PROPER CARE AND THE CONTINUITY OF THAT CARE THAT

                    THEY DESERVE.  AND SO WITH THIS BILL WE WILL BE DOING THAT AND

                    ADDRESSING THAT IN A POSITIVE MANNER.

                                         146



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR

                    EXPLANATION.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  FIRST, JUST TO BE CLEAR, THIS CURRENT

                    PROGRAM INVOLVES A SITUATION WHERE THE JUDGE MAKES AN ORDER THAT THE

                    INMATE BE PROVIDED WITH A SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT PROGRAM WHILE

                    SERVING TIME IN THE STATE PENITENTIARY.  BUT THE CURRENT PROGRAM ALSO

                    RECOGNIZES THAT BEFORE WE AUTHORIZE INMATES TO GO OUT ON WORK RELEASE

                    OR A CONDITIONAL RELEASE OR A SIMILAR PROGRAM, THEY NEED TO SERVE AT

                    LEAST A MINIMUM AMOUNT OF THEIR SENTENCE.  AND THE MINIMUM AMOUNT

                    UNDER CURRENT LAW IS UP TO TWO YEARS BEFORE THEIR PAROLE ELIGIBILITY.  SO,

                    A SIMPLE EXAMPLE:  SOMEONE MIGHT BE SENTENCED TO TEN YEARS, THEY

                    MIGHT BE ELIGIBLE FOR PAROLE AFTER EIGHT.  UNDER THE CURRENT LAW, THEY

                    COULD GET OUT ON CONDITIONAL RELEASE IN SIX.  UNDER THIS BILL, RIGHT AFTER

                    THEY TAKE THE JUDICIALLY-ORDERED SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROGRAM, THEY WOULD

                    BE IMMEDIATELY NOT ONLY ELIGIBLE, BUT THIS WOULD DIRECT THAT THEY BE IN A

                    CONDITIONAL WORK RELEASE PROGRAM.  IT'S A GREAT THING IF YOU'RE AN INMATE

                    THAT'S IN THERE FOR AN EXTENDED TIME PERIOD.  AND I USED AN EXAMPLE OF

                    TEN YEARS; IT COULD BE 15, IT COULD BE 20.  IF YOU'RE SENTENCED FOR 20

                    YEARS AND YOU'RE NOT ELIGIBLE PAROLE -- FOR PAROLE UNTIL 18, YOU CAN GET

                    WORK RELEASE AFTER YOUR FIRST YEAR WHEN -- AS SOON AS YOU FINISH THIS

                    PROGRAM.  THERE'S A REASON WHY WE HAVE THIS BALANCE, AND -- AND

                                         147



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    OBVIOUSLY, THE FUNDAMENTAL REASON IS WE WANT INMATES WHO HAVE BEEN

                    CONVICTED AND SENTENCED FOR AN EXTENDED TIME PERIOD SERVE AT LEAST A

                    MINIMUM SENTENCE IN -- IN PRISON.  THERE'S ANOTHER ASPECT TO IT AS WELL.

                    IN ADDITION TO GOING THROUGH THE -- THE SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT

                    PROGRAM, WHICH IS A VERY VALUABLE PROGRAM AND ONE THAT I SUPPORT,

                    WITH A LITTLE BIT OF LUCK THE PRISON IS SUCCESSFUL IN MINIMIZING

                    CONTRABAND, WHICH GIVES THE INMATE HAVING COMPLETED THIS PROGRAM

                    SUBSTANTIAL TIME PERIOD AS WELL TO REMAIN CLEAN, DRY AND SOBER WHILE IN

                    PRISON BEFORE OUT ON WORK RELEASE WHERE THE AVAILABILITY OF DRUGS OR

                    OTHER INTOXICANTS IS MUCH MORE AVAILABLE.

                                 SO I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S DESIRE TO PROVIDE

                    CONTINUITY OF SERVICE AND GET THESE INMATES OUT ON THE STREET AS SOON AS

                    POSSIBLE WITH A CONDITIONAL WORK RELEASE, BUT I THINK THE CURRENT

                    PROGRAM HAS THE RIGHT BALANCE OF REQUIRING A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME BE

                    SERVED BEFORE YOU'RE ELIGIBLE FOR WORK RELEASE, MAKING SURE THAT YOU

                    COMPLETE THE PROGRAM SUCCESSFULLY BEFORE YOU'RE ON WORK RELEASE,

                    GIVING YOU TIME TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE CLEAN, DRY AND SOBER BEFORE

                    AUTHORIZING THE WORK RELEASE AND PUTTING THESE PEOPLE BACK OUT IN THE

                    COMMUNITY.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.  AND AGAIN, THANK YOU TO

                    MY COLLEAGUE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  CERTAINLY.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

                    DAY.

                                         148



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. RICHARDSON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. RICHARDSON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  YOU

                    KNOW, I'M EXTREMELY PROUD OF US AS A LEGISLATIVE BODY FOR TAKING

                    ACTION TODAY TO REALLY HELP INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH

                    ADDICTION TO GET TO A POSITIVE PATHWAY TOWARDS RECOVERY.  YOU KNOW,

                    ALLOWING INMATES WHO HAVE BEEN JUDICIALLY-ORDERED TO SUBSTANCE ABUSE

                    TREATMENT PROGRAMS TO BE REINTEGRATED BACK INTO SOCIETY THROUGH WORK

                    -- WORK RELEASE PROGRAMMING IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.  IT'S IMPORTANT

                    FOR MY COLLEAGUES TO ALSO KNOW THAT THE CASAT PROGRAM IS HEAVILY

                    MONITORED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS.  AND IF AN INMATE IS

                    RECEIVING WORK RELEASE, THEY WILL BE HEAVILY MONITORED.  THEY'RE ONLY

                    OUT FOR 14 HOURS A DAY, THEY HAVE TO RETURN BACK TO THE FACILITY IN THE

                    NIGHTTIME.  AND ANY ONE GLITCH IN THE SYSTEM, THEY WOULD BE REVOKED

                    FROM THE PROGRAM IMMEDIATELY.  I THINK IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO

                    CONTINUE TO, YOU KNOW, REVAMP THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND HELP --

                    HELP TO JUDICIALLY DIVERT THOSE WHO ARE REALLY IN NEED.

                                 AND WITH THAT I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I STAND

                    VERY PROUD AND TALL IN DOING THAT.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MS. RICHARDSON

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. DENDEKKER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I

                                         149



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    WANT TO APPLAUD THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL.  THIS IS A FANTASTIC TOPIC TO BE

                    TALKING ABOUT.  AND -- AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE.  ALCOHOLISM AND

                    SUBSTANCE ABUSE HAS -- HAS TAKEN OVER OUR SOCIETY.  WHAT MOST PEOPLE

                    DON'T KNOW IS THAT 40 PERCENT OF ALL THE INMATES IN JAIL RIGHT NOW WERE

                    UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR DRUGS AT THE TIME OF THEIR OFFENSE.

                    THEY -- WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE PROBLEMS WITH ALCOHOL AND DRUGS,

                    AND THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.  AND IF WE WERE TO HELP PEOPLE WITH

                    THEIR UNDERLYING PROBLEM OF ALCOHOLISM AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE, THEY

                    PROBABLY WOULD HAVE NEVER HAD ANY KIND OF CRIMINAL INTERACTION

                    WHATSOEVER.  SO, I THINK THIS IS A FANTASTIC WAY OF ALLOWING PEOPLE THAT

                    HAVE AN ISSUE WITH ALCOHOL OR SUBSTANCE ABUSE TO BE ABLE TO GET THE HELP

                    THEY NEED TO TRANSITION BACK INTO A WORK RELEASE PROGRAM AS SOON AS

                    POSSIBLE UNDER THOSE STRICT GUIDELINES THAT HAVE BEEN LAID OUT IN THIS

                    BILL, AND TO BE ABLE TO HELP PEOPLE TO -- WITH THEIR ACTUAL UNDERLYING

                    PROBLEM.

                                 I THINK THIS IS A GREAT BILL, I APPLAUD THE SPONSOR.  I

                    HOPE EACH AND EVERY MEMBER OF THIS BODY WILL VOTE POSITIVELY ON THIS

                    BILL, AND WE HAVE TO DO MORE TO HELP PEOPLE THAT ARE SUFFERING FROM

                    ALCOHOLISM AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE, STARTING WITH EARLY EDUCATION, STARTING

                    WITH PREVENTION AND THEN ALSO HAVING MORE TREATMENT AVAILABLE.  THIS

                    IS A GREAT BILL, AND I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MR. DENDEKKER

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                         150



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, COULD YOU

                    PLEASE CALL THE RULES COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM?

                    RULES COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  RULES

                    COMMITTEE, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.  THE SPEAKER IS ON HIS WAY

                    AS WE SPEAK.  RULES COMMITTEE, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05306, CALENDAR NO.

                    416, GUNTHER, ORTIZ, ZEBROWSKI, WALLACE, WILLIAMS, GLICK, GALEF,

                    D'URSO, BLAKE, SANTABARBARA, MONTESANO, ABINANTI, GOTTFRIED.  AN ACT

                    TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO THE USE OF VOICE

                    RECOGNITION FEATURES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  AN EXPLANATION

                    HAS BEEN REQUESTED, MRS. GUNTHER.

                                 QUIET IN THE CHAMBER, PLEASE.  WE ARE ON DEBATE,

                    MEMBERS.

                                 MRS. GUNTHER:  THIS BILL PROHIBITS

                    INTERNET-CONNECTED DEVICE MANUFACTURERS FROM SELLING VOICE

                    RECOGNITION DATA OR USING IT FOR ADVERTISING PURPOSES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MRS. GUNTHER, DO

                                         151



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MRS. GUNTHER:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  JUST A FEW

                    QUESTIONS AS TO THE OPERATION OF THIS.  OBVIOUSLY, THESE TYPES OF DEVICES

                    ARE BECOMING MORE IN WIDESPREAD USE, AND WITH -- WITH THAT COMES THE

                    ISSUE WE'RE DEALING WITH TODAY AND TRYING TO FIND WAYS PROPERLY TO, YOU

                    KNOW, ENACT STATUTES AND -- AND REGULATIONS TO -- TO ADDRESS THINGS LIKE

                    PRIVACY CONCERNS.  SO, I'M JUST WONDERING, HOW DOES THIS DIFFER -- I

                    KNOW THERE MAY BE SOME FEDERAL LAWS THAT WOULD GOVERN THE ABILITY TO,

                    YOU KNOW, TO TRANSFER OR SELL THIS INFORMATION.  IS THIS IN ADDITION TO

                    THOSE?  DOES IT MIRROR THE FEDERAL REGULATIONS?

                                 MRS. GUNTHER:  CALIFORNIA HAS DONE THIS AND

                    WE'RE KIND OF MIRRORING IT -- MIRRORING THAT REGARDING VOICE

                    RECOGNITION.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO IT'S -- IT'S AN APPROACH THAT IS --

                                 MRS. GUNTHER:  THEY'VE ALSO DONE IT FOR, LIKE,

                    SMART TVS.  I KNOW THAT MY SISTER OFTEN SAYS WHEN SHE HAS ALEXA ON,

                    SHE'LL SAY, ALEXA, TELL ME SOMETHING ABOUT A NEW PHONE.  AND THEN ALL

                    OF A SUDDEN A LITTLE BIT LATER ON HER TELEPHONE, SHE HAS ADVERTISEMENTS

                    FOR ALL THE NEW SMARTPHONES THAT ARE AVAILABLE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  NOW, WOULD -- WOULD THE PROVISIONS

                    OF THIS COMPLETELY PROHIBIT THAT, OR -- OR WOULD IT BE THAT THEY HAVE TO

                    NOTIFY THE CONSUMER THAT THAT IS -- IS TAKING PLACE?

                                         152



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MRS. GUNTHER:  SO, YOU HAVE TO NOTIFY THAT YOU'RE

                    COLLECTING THIS KIND OF INFORMATION AND YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SELL IT TO

                    ANY KIND OF MANUFACTURERS, ET CETERA.  SO IT PROTECTS THE INDIVIDUAL SO

                    THAT WE DON'T GET THOSE CALLS, AND IT DOES PROTECT OUR PRIVACY.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND -- AND, YOU KNOW, MY

                    UNDERSTANDING IS THE WAY SOME OF THESE DEVICES -- YOU KNOW, YOU

                    MENTIONED ALEXA, AND THAT'S OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE MORE WIDESPREAD

                    ONES IN USE.  I KNOW I HAVE A COUPLE OF THEM IN MY HOUSE.  IT KIND OF,

                    YOU KNOW, TAKES INFORMATION, KIND OF -- THE INFORMATION STREAMS

                    THROUGH IT OR IT LISTENS UNTIL IT HEARS ITS TRIGGER WORD, AND THEN IT ACTUALLY

                    PICKS UP ON -- ON THE REQUEST OF THE USER.  SO, YOU KNOW, BUT IT ALWAYS

                    HAS TO BE LISTENING, SO TO SPEAK, TO CATCH THAT TRIGGER WORD.

                                 MRS. GUNTHER:  I THINK THE BIGGEST CONCERN IS THAT

                    THEY'RE ALWAYS LISTENING.

                                 MR. RA:  OH, I -- I -- I WOULD AGREE BUT THAT -- BUT IT

                    HAS TO BE LISTENING TO -- TO PICK UP THE TRIGGER WORD.  AND MY

                    UNDERSTANDING IS THEN WHAT IT WILL RECORD IS WHEN YOU'VE ACTUALLY SAID

                    THE MAGIC WORD "ALEXA" AND THE REQUEST THAT'S IT'S GOTTEN.  SO WOULD

                    THIS IMPACT IN ANY WAY FOR IT TO BE ABLE TO LISTEN FOR THAT -- THAT TRIGGER?

                                 MRS. GUNTHER:  NO.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND JUST GIVE ME ONE SECOND.

                    OKAY.  I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    RA.

                                         153



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. RA:  NOW, AS -- AS I MENTIONED -- AND -- AND

                    CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, I COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR -- FOR TRYING TO WORK

                    ON -- ON THIS ISSUE.  THIS IS A TECHNOLOGY THAT ALTHOUGH IT'S BEEN AROUND

                    A COUPLE OF YEARS IT'S STILL RELATIVELY NEW AND IT'S STARTING TO MAKE ITS

                    WAY INTO ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT DEVICES; TELEVISIONS AS WAS -- WAS

                    MENTIONED, AND ALL THESE THINGS ARE KIND OF LIKE STRUNG TOGETHER.  YOU

                    KNOW, I JUST GOT A -- I JUST GOT A NEW TV THAT, YOU KNOW, WORKS WITH

                    THE -- THE WHOLE AMAZON STUFF SO THEN IT CAN LINK IN WITH -- WITH MY --

                    WITH MY ECHO AND -- AND ALL OF THAT.  AND, YOU KNOW, IT PROVIDES GREAT

                    CONVENIENCE, BUT WITH THAT BECOMES -- COMES, CERTAINLY, DATA CONCERNS

                    AND WHAT -- YOU KNOW, WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEING RECORDED, HOW IT'S BEING

                    USED, AND CERTAINLY THE SALE OF THAT -- OF THAT INFORMATION.  YOU KNOW,

                    MY UNDERSTANDING WITH REGARD TO THIS AREA, I KNOW THERE IS SOME

                    FEDERAL REGULATION IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, DISCLOSING WHAT DATA IS

                    GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, COLLECTED AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE TO -- TO AN

                    END USER.  AND THERE'S BEEN SOME, YOU KNOW, CONCERN RAISED BY

                    DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES AS TO HOW -- YOU KNOW, HOW THESE

                    DEVICES CURRENTLY OPERATE AND HOW THIS MIGHT GET IN THE WAY OF THEM

                    CONTINUING TO OPERATE AND CONTINUING TO DEVELOP NEW -- NEW

                    TECHNOLOGIES IN THIS AREA.  YOU KNOW, THEY -- THEY DO RAISE CONCERNS

                    THAT -- I KNOW THIS IS A SIMILAR APPROACH TO CALIFORNIA, BUT IF PERHAPS

                    THIS MIRRORED A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAT DEFINITION -- YOU KNOW, THE -- THE

                    ISSUE WE'RE RUNNING INTO IN SO MANY OF THESE AREAS IS THAT THE

                    TECHNOLOGY IS AHEAD OF THOSE OF US MAKING LAWS AND REGULATIONS.  AND

                    AS A RESULT, AS DIFFERENT STATES GO AND PUT FORTH A REGULATION, THEY MAY

                                         154



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    NOT ALWAYS BE UNIFORM AND IT -- IT BECOMES AN ISSUE FOR THESE

                    COMPANIES TO MAKE SURE THEIR TECHNOLOGIES, YOU KNOW, COMPLY WITH

                    CALIFORNIA LAW, COMPLY WITH NEW YORK LAW AND THEN, YOU KNOW, SO ON

                    AND SO FORTH AS OTHER STATES ADOPT REGULATIONS.  SO -- SO I -- I THINK

                    CERTAINLY IT'S -- REGULATION IS NEEDED.  I THINK I'VE HAD THE EXACT SAME

                    EXPERIENCE THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT MAYBE I WAS TALKING ABOUT

                    AND I, YOU KNOW, YOU SUDDENLY SEE IT POP UP.  AND -- AND WE ALL KNOW

                    IT TRANSCENDS DIFFERENT DEVICES.  WE MAY BE LOOKING AT SOMETHING ON

                    OUR PHONE AND -- AND THEN SOMETHING POPS UP LATER ON -- ON A DESKTOP

                    COMPUTER.

                                 SO -- SO I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR -- FOR ANSWERING SOME

                    QUESTIONS, BUT I HOPE AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS WE -- WE TRY TO

                    FIND, YOU KNOW, THE BEST WAY TO FIND UNIFORMITY SO THAT WE PROTECT THE

                    -- THE CONSUMER BUT WE -- WE DON'T DO ANYTHING TO HINDER TECHNOLOGICAL

                    ADVANCEMENT.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 120 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04574, CALENDAR NO.

                                         155



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    504, JEAN-PIERRE, D'URSO, STECK, GOTTFRIED, THIELE, SEAWRIGHT,

                    MONTESANO, WALKER, VANEL, RA, OTIS, EPSTEIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING UTILITY COMPANIES TO

                    INCLUDE A NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARINGS CONCERNING RATE INCREASES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  AN EXPLANATION

                    HAS BEEN REQUESTED, MS. JEAN-PIERRE.

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  THIS WOULD AMEND SECTION 44

                    OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW TO REQUIRE UTILITY COMPANIES TO INCLUDE ON

                    THEIR BILLS SENT TO THEIR CUSTOMERS AN ADVANCE NOTICE OF THE DATE AND

                    PLACE OF ANY AND ALL PUBLIC HEARINGS CONCERNING PROPOSED RATE

                    INCREASES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  MR. PALMESANO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  DO YOU YIELD,

                    MS. JEAN-PIERRE?

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  I DO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU, MS. JEAN-PIERRE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU.  JUST A FEW

                    QUESTIONS.  AND I KNOW THE INTENTION BEHIND THE BILL IS

                    WELL-INTENTIONED, BUT I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS, IF I COULD ASK.  FIRST --

                    THE FIRST QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK BECAUSE I NOTICE THE LANGUAGE REFERS

                    TO PUBLIC UTIL -- INVESTOR-OWNED UTILITIES, BUT THE LONG ISLAND POWER

                                         156



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    AUTHORITY IS NOT INCLUDED AS -- IN THE PROVISIONS OF THIS BILL.  HOW

                    COME?

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  IT IS CAPTURED.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  OH, I DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE

                    LANGUAGE, I'M SORRY.

                                 OKAY.  MY NEXT QUESTION IS, I KNOW THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    COMMISSION RIGHT NOW PUBLISHES A CALENDAR OF HEARINGS ON A WEEKLY

                    BASIS, AND THESE CALENDAR OF HEARINGS REFER TO HEARINGS, PRE-HEARING

                    CONFERENCES, EVIDENTIARY HEARINGS, PUBLIC STATEMENT HEARINGS AND

                    TECHNICAL CONFERENCE.  MANY OF THESE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RATES.

                    AND THE QUESTION I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY IN -- IN THE BILL IS I KNOW YOU

                    MENTIONED THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE ON THE UTILITY BILL ON ALL -- ANY

                    AND ALL PUBLIC HEARINGS.  ARE YOU -- ARE YOU SAYING JUST FOR THE

                    LANGUAGE THAT IT ONLY REFERS TO RATES SPECIFICALLY, SO ALL THESE OTHER

                    HEARINGS WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE PUT ON THE BILL, OR WOULD EVERY HEARING?

                    BECAUSE IT SAYS ANY AND ALL HAVE TO BE INCLUDED ON THE UTILITY BILL.

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  THIS IS JUST FOR RATE INCREASES

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  RIGHT NOW,

                    AREN'T INVESTOR-OWNED UTILITIES CURRENTLY OBLIGATED TO INFORM CUSTOMERS

                    ABOUT MAJOR RATE CHANGE AND PROCEEDINGS?

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT

                    AGAIN?

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  AREN'T RIGHT NOW

                    INVESTOR-OWNED UTILITIES, THEY'RE OBLIGATED RIGHT NOW TO INFORM

                    CUSTOMERS OF MAJOR RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS.

                                         157



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  SO THIS -- WHAT THIS DOES, IT

                    ADDS AN ADDITIONAL SECTION TO THE LAW, AND WHAT IT DOES, IT --  IT PROVIDES

                    ACCURACY AND ALLOWS IT TO BE ON THE BILL.  SO, FOR OUR SENIOR POPULATION

                    WHO JUST LIKES TO LOOK AT THEIR BILL, IT JUST PROVIDES ANOTHER LEVEL OF

                    TRANSPARENCY FOR OUR CUSTOMERS -- FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS TO ENSURE THAT

                    THEY'RE AWARE OF THE PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR THE RATE INCREASES.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO RIGHT NOW, THOUGH, IT'S MY

                    UNDERSTANDING ALL UTILITY CUSTOMERS RECEIVE A BILL INSERT THAT ADVISES

                    THEM OF A RATE CASE IMMEDIATELY AFTER ITS ONSET.  SO THERE IS A

                    NOTIFICATION THAT'S MADE TO ALL RATEPAYERS WITH THIS INSERT THAT'S ON THE --

                    IN THE BILL.  IT'S NOT ON THE BILL, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY AN INSERT IN THE -- IN THE

                    BILL.  THEY HAVE TO DO THAT -- THEY DO THAT NOW.  SO WOULD THAT -- WOULD

                    THAT ADDRESS THAT ISSUE, OR NOW YOU'RE SAYING IT HAS TO ACTUALLY BE

                    PRINTED ON TO THE BILL?

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  SO, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR ALL OF THE

                    UTILITY COMPANIES AS TO WHAT THEY DO, BUT THIS WOULD JUST PROVIDE SOME

                    PLAYING LEVEL FIELD FOR ALL UTILITY COMPANIES AND JUST AN ACT OF

                    TRANSPARENCY SO IT'S RIGHT THERE ON THE BILL, WHETHER THEY DO AN INSERT OR

                    NOT.  BUT IT'S -- AND IT'S ACTUALLY A COST SAVINGS FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY

                    DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR AN ADDITIONAL PAPER FOR AN INSERT.  THEY CAN

                    ACTUALLY JUST PUT THAT ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  OKAY.  AND ALSO -- SO, RIGHT

                    NOW IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING ALSO IN ADDITION TO THE INSERT AFTER -- OR AFTER

                    THAT NOTIFICATION IS MADE, IT'S FOLLOWED UP BY FOUR CONSECUTIVE WEEKS OF

                    NEWSPAPER PUBLICATIONS AS ADVISED UNDER THE LAW.  SO THERE'S -- THERE'S

                                         158



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    CONTINUING NOTIFICATION AS IT IS RIGHT NOW IN ADDITION TO THE NOTIFICATION

                    THEY MAKE RIGHT NOW.  IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  YES.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  OKAY.  BUT WITH RESPECT TO THE

                    RATE CASE, AREN'T THE DATES, THE TIMES, THE LOCATIONS, THE STATEMENT

                    HEARINGS, AREN'T THEY ALL SET BY THE PUBLIC SERVICE ADMINISTRATIVE LAW

                    JUDGE WHO'S ASSIGNED TO THE -- THE RATE CASE?  SO BASED ON THE TIMING

                    WHEN THAT COMES OUT, THAT -- WOULDN'T THAT IMPACT THE ABILITY OF A UTILITY

                    TO GET THAT ON THE BILL?  AND THAT COULD BE PROBLEMATIC EVEN TO MEET

                    THAT REQUIREMENT.  ISN'T THAT GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE?

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  OKAY.  SO, THEY ONLY -- SO THE

                    UTILITY COMPANY IS ONLY REQUIRED TO PUT IT ON THE BILL IF THEY HAVE NOTICE

                    AT THE TIME OF -- AT THE TIME OF PRINTING.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO, I KNOW YOU SAY THERE'S

                    PROBABLY NO -- THERE'S -- WOULD BE NO COSTS INVOLVED.  BUT IF THEY'RE

                    TALKING ABOUT PRINTING ADDITIONAL PA -- PAGES ON A BILL AND THINGS OF THAT

                    NATURE, THAT COULD BE PROBLEMATIC.  THAT COULD BE A CHALLENGE TO THEM.

                    AND RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE A SYSTEM THAT'S WORKING.  WOULDN'T WE JUST

                    BETTER -- LET'S CONTINUE WITH THE SYSTEM WE HAVE RATHER -- RATHER THAN

                    ADDING TO THE -- WHAT WE HAVE TO REQUIRE MORE PRINTING IN ADDITION TO

                    WHAT THEY'RE DOING?

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  NO, I THINK THIS IS JUST AN ACT OF

                    TRANSPARENCY.  AND WHETHER THEY DO IT IN AN INSERT, THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL

                    COST, IN MY OPINION.  BUT IF THEY HAVE TO DO IT IN ADDITION -- ADD AN

                    INSERT, THEY'RE -- YOU SAID ALL UTILITY COMPANIES ARE ALREADY DOING IT.  SO

                                         159



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THEY'RE ALREADY DOING IT, THEY WANT TO ADD AN INSERT.  BUT THIS JUST ADDS

                    AN ADDITIONAL TRANSPARENCY FOR OUR CUSTOMERS TO SEE THAT THERE IS A

                    PUBLIC HEARING FOR A RATE INCREASE.  AND THIS USUALLY MOSTLY IMPACTS OUR

                    SENIOR POPULATION AND OUR MOST VULNERABLE POPULATION.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  OKAY.  THANK YOU FOR YOUR

                    TIME.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PICHARDO:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    PALMESANO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YES, I BELIEVE THE SPONSOR IS

                    WELL-INTENTIONED IN THIS LEGISLATION, ALTHOUGH I THINK I DO HAVE SOME

                    CONCERNS RELATIVE TO HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK.  I THINK RELATIVE TO WHAT

                    WE HAVE IN PLACE RIGHT NOW, THERE IS A PROCESS IN PLACE THAT WORKS THAT

                    THE -- THAT THE UTILITIES HAVE TO NOTE -- DO THE NOTIFICATION NOW.  I THINK

                    THERE'S A CONCERN RELATIVE -- AND I KNOW THE SPONSOR SAID THAT IF THERE'S

                    A TIMING ISSUE WITH THE ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO

                    PRINT.  I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOME -- ADDITIONAL

                    REQUIREMENTS THAT AREN'T NECESSARY.  I THINK THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS

                    WORKING FINE FOR WHAT WE NEED RIGHT NOW.  I THINK THIS IS JUST

                    SOMETHING -- WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ADDITIONAL PRINTING ON A BILL, THAT'S

                    MORE PAGES, THERE'S A COST INVOLVED IN THAT, THAT -- THAT'S SOMETHING THAT

                    COMPLICATES A BILL.  WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR UTILITY BILLS NOW, THEY'RE SIX

                    OR EIGHT PAGES LONG, AND NOW -- I MEAN, HOW MANY PEOPLE LOOK AT THEIR

                    BILL FROM COVER TO COVER?  I THINK AN INSERT IS SOMETHING THAT'S JUST IN

                                         160



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    THERE RIGHT THERE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO SEE, RATHER THAN ALL MORE WORDS

                    AND NUMBERS ON A UTILITY BILL, I THINK THAT -- ALTHOUGH I KNOW THAT THE

                    INTENTION IS FOR TRANSPARENCY, I THINK IT'S JUST GOING TO COMPLICATE THE

                    BILL, IT'S GOING TO COMPLICATE THE PROCESS.  I THINK IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT

                    MORE -- MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THAN WHAT IT IS ALREADY.  AND I THINK GIVEN

                    THAT ISSUE AND GIVEN THE CHALLENGES THIS MIGHT FORM, AND ALSO THE COSTS

                    THAT COULD BE INVOLVED WHICH IS GOING TO BE BORNE BY THE RATEPAYER, FOR

                    THAT REASON, MR. SPEAKER, ALTHOUGH I BELIEVE THE SPONSOR IS

                    WELL-INTENTIONED, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND ENCOURAGE MY

                    COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 90 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. JEAN-PIERRE:  THIS LEGISLATION IS ALL ABOUT

                    TRANSPARENCY FOR OUR CUSTOMERS.  OFTENTIMES, CONSUMERS DON'T FIND OUT

                    ABOUT RATE INCREASES ON THEIR UTILITY BILLS UNTIL AFTER THE FACT.  UTILITY RATE

                    INCREASES TEND TO HIT LOW- TO MODERATE-INCOME CUSTOMERS AND SENIORS

                    ON FIXED INCOMES HARDER THAN MOST.  AND THIS LEGISLATION IS INTENDED TO

                    GIVE NEW YORKERS ADEQUATE NOTICE TO MAKE THEIR VOICES HEARD WHEN IT

                    COMES TO RATE HIKES.  JUST LAST MONTH, NATIONAL GRID MADE A FORMAL

                    REQUEST TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO INCREASE DELIVERY RATES BY

                                         161



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    6.92 PERCENT, WHICH WOULD HIKE AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL BILLS BY $6.52 A

                    MONTH.  THIS MAY NOT SEEM LIKE A LOT OF MONEY, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ARE

                    ON FIXED INCOMES OR WORKING JOBS AT LOW WAGE, IT CAN HAVE A

                    SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON MAKING ENDS MEET.

                                 AND WITH THIS, I CAST MY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. JEAN-PIERRE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF I COULD

                    -- WE COULD ADVANCE THE B-CALENDAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE B-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF WE CAN

                    TAKE UP OUR NEXT BILL ON DEBATE, IT WOULD BE RULES REPORT NO. 82.  AND

                    IT IS ON PAGE 6 BY MR. DENDEKKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PAGE 6, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 82, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05194, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 82, DENDEKKER, SAYEGH, DESTEFANO, RAYNOR, BUCHWALD.  AN ACT

                    TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING MOTOR

                    VEHICLE DEALERS TO SEARCH FOR RECALLS AND MAKE CERTAIN REPAIRS PRIOR TO

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    SELLING A USED MOTOR VEHICLE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DENDEKKER, AN

                    EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS

                    BILL IS A VERY SIMPLE BILL.  IT'S JUST GOING TO REQUIRE NEW CAR AUTO DEALERS

                    AND AUTO DEALERS IN NEW YORK STATE TO REPAIR ANY OPEN RECALLS, SAFETY

                    RECALLS, ON A VEHICLE BEFORE THEY CAN SELL IT TO A MEMBER OF THE GENERAL

                    PUBLIC.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    MR. DENDEKKER YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DENDEKKER, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  YES, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  SO I KNOW WE -- WE

                    SPOKE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS A -- A FEW WEEKS AGO.  SO, JUST FIRST AND

                    FOREMOST, I -- I -- YOU KNOW, YOU STATED IT REQUIRES THAT RECALLS BE -- BE

                    TAKEN CARE OF BEFORE THEY CAN TRANSFER THE VEHICLE.  WHAT -- WHAT IS

                    MEANT BY A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO -- TO NOTE -- YOU KNOW, LEARN OF A RECALL

                    ON A VEHICLE?

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  WELL, CURRENTLY, IF WE'RE TALKING

                    IN A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION ON A NEW CAR DEALER, MOST OF THEM HAVE

                    HANDHELD SCANNING DEVICES THAT SCAN THE BARCODE OR THE VIN NUMBER

                    ON THE CAR, AND THAT MANUFACTURER WOULD KNOW OR THAT DEALER WOULD

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    KNOW THERE'S AN OPEN RECALL.  THE OTHER WAY TO DO IT IS TO GO ON TO A

                    WEBSITE THAT'S PROVIDED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND IF YOU PUT IN A

                    VIN NUMBER IT WOULD TELL YOU IF THERE'S ANY OPEN RECALLS ON IT.  SO IT'S

                    NOT A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS.

                                 MR. RA:  SO, SO LONG AS THEY'VE, YOU KNOW, DONE THAT

                    THEY WILL HAVE SATISFIED THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS?

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  I'M SORRY, I -- I DIDN'T HEAR THE

                    QUESTION.

                                 MR. RA:  AND SO LONG AS THE -- YOU KNOW, THE -- THE

                    DEALER HAS DONE THAT, YOU KNOW, SCANNED THE VIN NUMBER AND USED --

                    UTILIZED THAT DATABASE, THEY'LL HAVE SATISFIED THIS PROVISION?

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  THAT'S CORRECT.  THEY WILL HAVE

                    MADE A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO DETERMINE IF THAT SPECIFIC VEHICLE HAD AN

                    OPEN RECALL.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  NOW, IN TERMS OF THE RECALLS, THIS

                    APPLIES TO ANY RECALL THAT'S ISSUED?

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  ANY RECALL FROM THE NATIONAL

                    SAFETY WEB -- WHAT'S THAT WORD -- THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY AND TRAFFIC

                    SAFETY [SIC].

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND -- AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAD

                    DISCUSSED IS WHETHER OR NOT THAT COULD INCLUDE RECALLS THAT, YOU KNOW,

                    AREN'T REALLY SAFETY RECALLS.  IS YOUR -- IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING, THOUGH,

                    THAT THAT WOULD -- THAT DATABASE ONLY FLAGS SAFETY RECALLS, OR COULD IT BE

                    SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE SEAL AROUND A WINDOW OR A

                    SUNROOF LEAKS OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE?

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  WELL, CORRECT.  WE HAD THAT

                    DISCUSSION, AND THE SEAL AROUND THE WINDOW THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE SAID

                    THAT YOU DON'T MAYBE WOULD CONSIDER A SAFETY RECALL, OBVIOUSLY IF IT'S

                    BEEN RECALLED FOR THAT PARTICULAR REASON AND IT HAS MADE IT ON TO THIS

                    WEBSITE, IT'S BEEN DETERMINED THAT THERE IS A SAFETY ISSUE ASSOCIATED

                    WITH IT.  SO THE ISSUE MIGHT BE THAT SEAL MIGHT BE FAULTY AND THAT

                    WINDOW THAT IT'S HOLDING IN WILL LEAVE THE VEHICLE AND EITHER CAUSE

                    DAMAGE TO ANOTHER VEHICLE OR MAYBE CAUSE A -- A PROBLEM FOR THE

                    PERSON THAT'S OPERATING THE VEHICLE IN WHICH THE SEAL WAS ON.  SO,

                    ALTHOUGH IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S NOT SERIOUS AND WOULDN'T BE A SAFETY RECALL,

                    IN ESSENCE, IT WOULD.  USUALLY A NON-SAFETY-RELATED ITEM THAT NEEDS TO

                    BE REPAIRED ON THE CAR, THEY DON'T DO A NATIONAL RECALL.  THEY WILL DO A

                    SERVICE BULLETIN, SO THE NEXT TIME YOU BRING YOUR CAR IN FOR SERVICE, THEY

                    WOULD SIMPLY FIX THE APPROPRIATE ISSUE.  MAYBE IT'S A LITTLE INSIDE LIGHT

                    BULB THAT IS DEEMED TO BE NECESSARY TO CHANGE, WHERE IT'S A

                    NON-SAFETY-RELATED ITEM.  ONCE IT BECOMES A SAFETY-RELATED ISSUE, WHICH

                    AGAIN, USUALLY COMES BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE PURCHASED THE VEHICLE,

                    THEY'VE DRIVEN IT AROUND, THEY FOUND SOMETHING AT FAULT.  SOMETHING

                    THAT IS A SAFETY CONCERN, THEY'VE REPORTED IT, ENOUGH PEOPLE HAVE

                    REPORTED THAT SAFETY CONCERN.  THE MANUFACTURER THEN AGREES THAT IT IS A

                    SAFETY CONCERN AND ISSUES A NATIONAL RECALL.  AND THEY DO IT VIN

                    SPECIFIC.  BECAUSE, OBVIOUSLY, WE KNOW MANUFACTURERS BUY FROM

                    MULTIPLE SUPPLIERS FOR DIFFERENT PARTS, AND NOT EVERY SINGLE SUPPLIER IS

                    MAYBE GIVING THEM A DEFECTIVE PART.  SO THEY KNOW WHICH PART IS IN

                    WHICH VEHICLE BY THE VIN NUMBER.

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND IS THERE -- YOU KNOW, UNDER THIS

                    -- MY UNDERSTANDING IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE

                    IS A MAJOR, MAJOR RECALL, THAT SOMETIMES THE MANUFACTURER MAY HAVE,

                    YOU KNOW, IDENTIFIED AN ISSUE AND MAYBE THEY FIGURED OUT THE SOLUTION,

                    MAYBE THEY HAVE NOT YET, BUT THEY'RE TRYING TO ALERT THE PUBLIC, YOU

                    KNOW, NOT TO DRIVE THE VEHICLE BECAUSE OF THAT CONCERN.  AND

                    SOMETIMES THERE ENDS UP BEING QUITE A BIT OF A, YOU KNOW, BACKLOG IN

                    ADDRESSING THESE.  AND -- AND I THINK THERE'S EVEN BEEN SITUATIONS

                    WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE NOTIFIED THE CONSUMERS AND THEY BASICALLY

                    EITHER HAVE TO PROVIDE A LOANER CAR OR THEY -- OR THEY END UP HAVING

                    BASICALLY SOMEBODY SIGN SOME TYPE OF WAIVER SAYING THAT THEY'VE BEEN

                    NOTIFIED OF THIS RECALL, YOU KNOW, SO AS TO -- TO PROTECT THE -- THE

                    MANUFACTURER FROM LIABILITY.  IS THERE -- IS THERE ANY -- THIS IS ABSOLUTE,

                    CORRECT?  THERE'S NO ABILITY FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR THE CONSUMER AND THE --

                    AND THE DEALER TO SAY, LOOK, THERE IS THIS OPEN SAFETY RECALL.  YOU NEED

                    TO CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER.  THEY'RE GOING TO -- THEY'LL FIX IT FOR YOU.

                    THEY CANNOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, TRANSFER A CAR THAT THEY KNOW

                    THERE'S A RECALL WITHOUT FIRST GETTING IT REPAIRED, CORRECT?

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  YES.  AND THE PURPOSE OF THIS

                    BILL IS WE DON'T WANT VEHICLES ON THE ROAD THAT ARE UNSAFE.  SO, TO

                    ADDRESS SOME OF THE PRIVATE SALES, FOR EXAMPLE, WE NOW HAVE THE NEW

                    YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES HAS LINKED A DATABASE WITH

                    THE NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S WEBSITE WHICH IS

                    NOW HOOKED UP TO EVERY SINGLE SERVICE STATION THAT DOES INSPECTIONS IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK, SO THAT WHEN YOUR CAR GETS INSPECTED, AT THE

                                         166



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    BOTTOM OF YOUR INSPECTION STICKER WILL GIVE YOU A NOTIFICATION WHETHER

                    THERE'S ANY OPEN RECALLS ON YOUR VEHICLE.  HOWEVER, WHEN WE'RE

                    DEALING WITH A DEALERSHIP, A LICENSED RESALE OR -- OR NEW CAR DEALERSHIP,

                    THEY, IN TURN, HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY.  THEY'RE A BUSINESS, THEY NEED TO

                    MAKE SURE THAT THE VEHICLES THAT THEY'RE SELLING ARE SAFE.  AND THE BEST

                    WAY TO DO THAT IS TO ADDRESS THESE RECALLS RIGHT AT THAT POINT.  WHEN

                    PEOPLE PURCHASE A VEHICLE FROM A DEALER, THEY EXPECT IT TO BE SAFE.

                    THEY EXPECT IT NOT TO HAVE ANY OPEN RECALLS.  THEY EXPECT THAT THE

                    WHEEL IS NOT GOING TO FALL OFF OR THAT THE WINDOW IS GOING TO COME OFF

                    WHEN THEY'RE DRIVING IT HOME.  AND IF THERE WAS A SAFETY RECALL, IT NEEDS

                    TO BE ADDRESSED.  NOW, THEY CAN ADDRESS IT MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.  ONE

                    WAY MIGHT BE IS THEY WILL REPAIR THE VEHICLE THEMSELVES IF THEY'RE AN

                    AUTHORIZED DEALER TO DO THAT, OR ANOTHER WAY IS THEY'LL TRANSPORT THAT

                    VEHICLE TO A LOCAL DEALERSHIP IN THE AREA THAT WILL ALSO THE FIX THE DEAL --

                    FIX IT.  THERE IS NO COST TO THAT DEALER WHEN HE SENDS IT BACK TO THE

                    MANUFACTURER'S DEALER TO HAVE IT FIXED.  SO I -- I -- I DON'T THINK THERE'S

                    ANY ISSUE OR ANY COST TO ANYONE ELSE, AND THAT'S NOT OUR INTENTION.  OUR

                    INTENTION IS TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY VEHICLE ON THE ROAD TODAY IS 100

                    PERCENT SAFE AND OPERATIONAL.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  MY -- MY LAST QUESTION, YOU KNOW,

                    UNDER THE DEFINITION OF -- OF DEALER ON THE BILL, THIS WOULD APPLY TO -- I

                    -- I KNOW IT REFERENCES ANOTHER SECTION OF LAW, BUT ARE YOU FAMILIAR

                    WITH THAT DEFINITION?  WOULD THAT BE ANY SIZE -- ANYTHING FROM LIKE, YOU

                    KNOW, A MAJOR -- YOU KNOW, ONE OF THESE CONGLOMERATES THAT HAS ALL

                    THESE DEALERSHIPS TO, YOU KNOW, A SMALL USED CAR LOT?

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  IT WOULD ENCOMPASS ALL OF

                    THEM, YES.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I -- YOU KNOW, I -- I

                    THINK I CERTAINLY SUPPORT THE INTENTION OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, BUT

                    THERE -- THERE ARE A COUPLE OF CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED, AND SOME

                    OF US MAY HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE MEMOS FROM -- FROM DIFFERENT GROUPS

                    REGARDING THIS.  ONE OF THEM IS -- IS SOMETHING I MENTIONED.  YOU

                    KNOW, A RECALL THAT IS ISSUED COULD PERHAPS BE FOR SOMETHING VERY

                    SMALL, AND THE OTHER ONE BEING, YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE A -- A RECALL

                    ISSUE AND THERE COULD BE A MAJOR BACKLOG TO FIXING IT.  AND THAT DEALER

                    WILL SIT WITH THIS CAR ON THE LOT FOR POTENTIALLY MONTHS.  THE CONCERN I

                    HAVE WITH THAT IS THAT IT COULD HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO MAKE DEALERS LESS

                    LIKELY TO TAKE CERTAIN CARS AS TRADE-INS.  YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF YOU'RE A

                    JEEP DEALER, RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE MAY COME IN WITH -- WITH CARS FROM

                    OTHER MANUFACTURERS AND YOU MAY BE WILLING TO ACCEPT THOSE AS

                    TRADE-INS.  YOU KNOW, PERHAPS MORE AS THIS BURDEN SHIFTS AND YOU HAVE

                    TO WORRY ABOUT THINGS OF THIS NATURE, YOU MAY BE LESS LIKELY TO DO THAT

                    AND MAYBE YOU'RE ONLY GOING TO TAKE OTHER CARS THAT COME FROM YOUR

                    MANUFACTURER BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE MORE FAMILIAR WITH THEM,

                    YOU'RE GOING TO BE EQUIPPED TO MAKE THESE REPAIRS SO THAT YOU CAN

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    TRANSFER THEM AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE CAR SITTING ON YOUR LOT.

                                 SO, YOU KNOW, AS A RESULT OF SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS, I

                    KNOW IN THE PAST THERE'S BEEN -- THERE'S BEEN SOME -- SOME NO VOTES,

                    AND -- AND -- AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE -- ARE STILL -- YOU KNOW, HAVE THOSE

                    CONCERNS WITH HOW THIS COULD IMPACT, YOU KNOW, THOSE BUSINESSES THAT

                    -- WHO ARE TRYING TO TRANSFER CARS, YOU KNOW -- YOU KNOW, GETTING A

                    GOOD RELIABLE USED CAR IS SOMETHING THAT -- THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT

                    TO BE ABLE TO DO.  SOME USED CAR LOTS MAY BE VERY SMALL.  IT MAY BE,

                    YOU KNOW, NOT NECESSARILY THE MAIN AREA OF THEIR BUSINESS, BUT IT DOES

                    PROVIDE A -- A SERVICE TO THE CONSUMER.  WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT, YOU

                    KNOW, UNSAFE CARS ON THE ROAD, BUT THIS DOES NOT REALLY MAKE ANY

                    PROVISIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN NOTIFY A CONSUMER AND HAVE THEM

                    MAKE A WELL-INFORMED DECISION WHETHER THEY WANT TO PURCHASE THAT

                    VEHICLE AND TAKE CARE OF THE RECALL THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW, FOR WHATEVER

                    REASON.  MAYBE THEY -- THEY JUST NEED A CAR RIGHT AWAY.

                                 SO -- SO FOR THOSE REASONS, I -- I THINK THERE ARE GOING

                    TO BE SOME OPPOSITION ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 90 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. DENDEKKER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. DENDEKKER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I JUST

                    WANTED TO MENTION THAT MOST OF THESE VEHICLES THAT ARE TRADED IN ARE NOT

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    RESOLD BY THE SAME DEALER.  MOST OF THOSE VEHICLES END UP AT VERY LARGE

                    AUCTION HOUSES.  SO, A GOOD WAY THAT THE DEALERS COULD MAKE THIS WORK

                    IS AS THEY TAKE IN THEIR TRADE-INS AND THEY'RE SENDING THE VEHICLES TO THE

                    AUCTIONS, THAT SOMEONE AT THE AUCTION COULD CHECK THEM ALL OUT, FIND

                    OUT IF THERE'S ANY RECALLS, FIX THE RECALLS BEFORE ANOTHER DEALER EVEN GOES

                    TO THAT AUCTION TO BUY THE VEHICLES.  THAT WOULD BE A -- A GOOD WAY OF

                    CIRCUMVENTING THIS.  GIVING AN ACTUAL NOTICE OR A PIECE OF PAPER TO

                    SOMEBODY TELLING THEM, HEY, THERE'S AN OPEN RECALL ON THAT CAR THAT

                    I'M GOING TO SELL YOU, AND YOU SHOULD GO TAKE IT TO A DEALER AFTER YOU

                    BUY IT FROM ME AND GET IT FIXED IS PROBABLY NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THIS.

                    GOD FORBID THAT THAT PERSON TAKES THE CAR OFF THE LOT AND THAT RECALL IS A

                    SERIOUS SAFETY RECALL AND SOMETHING HAPPENS AND AN ACCIDENT IS

                    INVOLVED.  THE DEALER'S GOING TO TURN AROUND AND SAY, WELL, I NOTIFIED

                    YOU, I GAVE YOU PIECE OF PAPER TO TELL YOU ABOUT IT.  AND THAT'S NOT THE

                    PROPER WAY WE SHOULD BE SELLING CARS AT DEALERSHIPS.  WE NEED TO MAKE

                    SURE CARS ARE SAFE WHEN THEY'RE ON THE ROAD.

                                 I ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO VOTE THIS IN THE POSITIVE, AND

                    I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

                    PLEASE CALL ON MR. OTIS FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. OTIS FOR THE

                                         170



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                    PURPOSES OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

                                 MR. OTIS:  THERE WILL BE AN IMMEDIATE DEMOCRATIC

                    CONFERENCE UPON THE CONCLUSION OF SESSION IN THE SPEAKER'S

                    CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  DEMOCRATIC

                    CONFERENCE, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING

                    SESSION.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU

                    HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  OH, YES, WE DO.

                                 ON A MOTION BY -- BY MR. DENDEKKER, PAGE 14, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 135, BILL NO. 5635-A, THE SUBSTITUTION OF THE SENATE BILL

                    PREVIOUSLY ORDERED IS WITHDRAWN.  THE ASSEMBLY BILL IS BEFORE THE

                    HOUSE AND THE AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON THE MAIN CALENDAR, A MOTION BY MS. ROSENTHAL,

                    PAGE 52, CALENDAR NO. 372, BILL NO. 486-A, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED

                    AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON THE B-CALENDAR, ON A MOTION BY MR. ZEBROWSKI,

                    PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 257, BILL NO. 4470, AMENDMENTS ARE

                    RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON BEHALF OF MR. HEVESI, ASSEMBLY BILL RECALLED FROM

                    THE SENATE.  THE CLERK WILL READ THE TITLE OF THE BILL.

                                 THE CLERK:  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY

                    LAW.

                                         171



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          JUNE 13, 2019

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MOTION TO RECONSIDER

                    THE VOTE BY WHICH THE BILL PASSED THE HOUSE.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE AND THE AMENDMENTS ARE

                    RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 NUMEROUS FINE RESOLUTIONS.  WE WILL TAKE THEM UP

                    WITH ONE VOTE.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

                    AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 559-568

                    WERE UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I NOW

                    MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL 10:00 A.M., FRIDAY, JUNE

                    THE 14TH, FRIDAY BEING A SESSION DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

                    ADJOURNED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 7:56 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD

                    ADJOURNED UNTIL FRIDAY, JUNE 14TH AT 10:00 A.M., THAT BEING A SESSION

                    DAY.)





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