TUESDAY, JULY 21, 2020                                                                        10:52 A.M.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

                    SILENCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

                                 VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

                    OF ALLEGIANCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

                    MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

                                 A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    JOURNAL OF MONDAY, JANUARY [SIC] 20TH.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE

                                          1



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THAT WE DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF MONDAY,

                    JULY 20TH AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  I'M SORRY, MS.

                    MAJORITY LEADER.  I WANT TO START ALL OVER AGAIN.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 CERTAINLY.  ON MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, WITHOUT

                    OBJECTION, SO ORDERED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, SIR.  IF I

                    COULD OFFER AN -- A QUOTE THIS MORNING.  I DO WANT TO START BY JUST SAYING

                    THAT WE WERE SCHEDULED TO START AT 10.  WE ARE A LITTLE DELAYED.  I THINK

                    THAT PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE FACT THAT MANY OF US ARE PARTICIPATING

                    REMOTELY AS WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC, I WOULD JUST ASK

                    IF MEMBERS COULD AT LEAST GET ONLINE A LITTLE FASTER, COME TO THE

                    CHAMBERS A LITTLE FASTER IF YOU ARE GOING TO PARTICIPATE.  THE EARLIER WE

                    START, THE MORE WORK WE CAN GET DONE.  THERE ARE A NUMBER OF RULES

                    BILLS THAT CAME OUT TODAY, THERE ARE A NUMBER THAT CAME OUT YESTERDAY.

                    EVERYBODY WANTS TO SEE THEIR BILLS DONE.  I WANT TO SEE EVERYBODY'S

                    BILLS DONE.  BUT IF WE DON'T GET THE NUMBERS IN THE BASE, WE CAN'T DO IT.

                                 SO WITH THAT, I WANT TO BRING THIS QUOTE TODAY.  THIS

                    ONE IS FROM A FORMER PRESIDENT, MR. SPEAKER.  IT SAYS, USE POWER TO

                    HELP PEOPLE.  FOR WE ARE GIVEN POWER NOT TO ADVANCE OUR OWN

                    PURPOSES, NOR TO MAKE A GREAT SHOW IN THE WORLD, NOR A NAME FOR

                    OURSELVES.  THERE IS BUT ONE JUST USE OF POWER, AND THAT IS TO SERVE THE

                    PEOPLE.  MR. SPEAKER, THIS QUOTE COMES FROM OUR FORMER PRESIDENT

                    GEORGE W. BUSH.  WE WANT TO THANK HIM FOR HIS WORDS BECAUSE THEY

                                          2



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WERE APPROPRIATE WHEN HE SAID THEM, AND THEY ARE APPROPRIATE TODAY.

                    WITH THAT I CERTAINLY WANT TO WELCOME OUR COLLEAGUES HERE AND ANYONE

                    WHO HAS JOINED US IN THE CHAMBERS.  WE ASK THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING

                    TO BE IN HERE, IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE SIX FEET APART THAT YOU DO NEED

                    TO BE MASKED.  SO YOU ARE WELCOME TO BE HERE, BUT APPROPRIATELY SO.

                                 MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR DESKS OR AT THEIR AVAIL A MAIN

                    CALENDAR AND AN A-CALENDAR, AS WELL AS AN UPDATED DEBATE LIST.  AT THIS

                    TIME, MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD LIKE TO ADVANCE THE A-CALENDAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU.  COLLEAGUES,

                    I APPRECIATE YOUR COOPERATION ON YESTERDAY.  I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR

                    YOUR COOPERATION ON TODAY, AND I WANT TO ASK THAT -- LET YOU KNOW THAT

                    WE DO HAVE ANOTHER VERY BUSY DAY.  TODAY WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE OUR

                    WORK WHERE WE LEFT OFF ON THE CONSENT CALENDAR ON YESTERDAY,

                    BEGINNING ON PAGE 8 OF THE MAIN CALENDAR WITH RULES REPORT NO. 190

                    THROUGH RULES REPORT NO. 219, WHICH IS ON PAGE 13.  WE WILL CONTINUE

                    TO WORK OFF THE DEBATE LIST, AND LATER ON WE WILL CONSENT FROM THE

                    A-CALENDAR THAT WAS JUST MOVED FORWARD.  I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO REMIND

                    MEMBERS THAT WE WILL BE OPERATING UNDER THE SAME RULES AND

                    PROCEDURES AS WE DID YESTERDAY.  AND JUST AS A REMINDER, THOSE

                    PARTICIPATING BY ZOOM SHOULD UTILIZE THE ZOOM "RAISE HAND" FUNCTION

                    WHEN SEEKING TO BE RECOGNIZED FOR DEBATE PURPOSES OR TO EXPLAIN YOUR

                    VOTE.  AS IN OUR PREVIOUS REMOTE SESSIONS, WHEN WE ARE ON A FAST ROLL

                                          3



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    CALL OR A PARTY VOTE, MEMBERS WISHING TO BE AN EXCEPTION SHOULD

                    CONTACT THEIR RESPECTIVE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE OR MAJORITY LEADER'S

                    OFFICES.

                                 WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I BELIEVE WE ARE READY TO

                    PROCEED WITH CONSIDERING THE IMPORTANT BUSINESS BEFORE US, AND WE

                    WILL -- SHOULD START WITH THE RESOLUTIONS THAT ARE ON PAGE 3.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PAGE 3, THE CLERK

                    WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 959,

                    RULES/MR. THIELE.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 13, 2020, AS DRAGONFLY DAY IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 960, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 15-19, 2020, AS SICKLE CELL

                    DISEASE AWARENESS WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.

                                          4



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 961, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MR. PERRY.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2020, AS CARIBBEAN AMERICAN

                    MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 962, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. RICHARDSON.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2020, AS AFRICAN-AMERICAN

                    MUSIC APPRECIATION MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 963, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. MELISSA MILLER.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 2020, AS COCKAYNE SYNDROME

                    AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR --

                                 MS. MILLER ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                          5



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MS. MILLER:  AS WITH ANY OTHER RARE DISEASE, YOU --

                    THEY DO NOT GET ENOUGH RESEARCH.  SO I AM GRATEFUL TO HAVE AN

                    AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  THERE ARE SEVERAL

                    CHILDREN FROM AROUND THE STATE WHO CURRENTLY SUFFER FROM THIS DISEASE,

                    SO I THANK YOU FOR YOUR AWARENESS AND RECOGNITION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

                    AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

                                 WE WILL GO TO PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 190.  THE

                    CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09543-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 190, EPSTEIN, SAYEGH, CRUZ, MOSLEY, LAVINE, TAYLOR,

                    DENDEKKER, SIMON, GOTTFRIED, L. ROSENTHAL, JAFFEE, REYES, COOK,

                    BARRON, QUART, SEAWRIGHT, WEPRIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO INCLUDING CREDITS EARNED FROM A HIGHER EDUCATION

                    INSTITUTION AS A CONDITION ON WHICH THE MERIT BOARD MAY GRANT MERIT

                    TIME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 190.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                          6



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I RISE TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  THIS BILL AMENDS THE CORRECTION LAW AND ALLOWS FOR

                    PEOPLE WHO NEED ADVANCED EDUCATION GOT A CREDIT TIME WHILE THEY'RE

                    INCARCERATED TO ALLOW INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION TO ALLOW 18

                    CREDITS TO GO TO THEIR CREDIT TIME.  THE PURPOSE OF THIS BILL IS TO SAY TO

                    PEOPLE WHO ARE INCARCERATED, IF YOU GO FORWARD WITH SOME HIGHER

                    EDUCATION, THAT WILL BE CONSIDERED MERIT TIME.  TODAY WE SEE PEOPLE

                    WHO ARE IN EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS DECIDING TO DROP OUT BECAUSE THEY

                    NEED TO GO TO, LIKE, A BEAUTICIAN PROGRAM BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE

                    ELIGIBLE FOR THEIR MERIT TIME SO THEY CAN GET EARLIER RELEASE.  THIS

                    PROMOTES EDUCATION.

                                 I ENCOURAGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS

                    BILL.  AND THANK YOU, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09694, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 191, ARROYO, REYES, CRUZ, MOSLEY, ZEBROWSKI, SEAWRIGHT, TAYLOR,

                    SAYEGH, M.G. MILLER, JAFFEE, WALCZYK, DARLING, GOTTFRIED, DICKENS,

                    STECK.  AN ACT TO REPEAL SECTION 206-B OF THE LABOR LAW, RELATING TO

                    EMPLOYMENT OF FEMALES AFTER CHILDBIRTH PROHIBITED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MRS.

                    ARROYO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                                          7



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 191.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09749, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 192, PRETLOW.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RACING, PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING

                    AND BREEDING LAW, THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW, THE ALCOHOLIC

                    BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF

                    NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO IMPLEMENTING TECHNICAL CHANGES

                    CONTEMPLATED BY SECTION 10 OF PART A OF CHAPTER 60 OF THE LAWS OF

                    2012 AND MAKING FURTHER TECHNICAL CHANGES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 192.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                                          8



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09874, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 193, ROZIC, ABINANTI, BARRETT, BLAKE, BRONSON, BUCHWALD,

                    DENDEKKER, FAHY, GOTTFRIED, HUNTER, JOYNER, LIFTON, LUPARDO,

                    MAGNARELLI, M.G. MILLER, MOSLEY, OTIS, RYAN, SANTABARBARA,

                    SEAWRIGHT, SCHIMMINGER, SIMON, STECK, STIRPE, ZEBROWSKI,

                    DE LA ROSA, D'URSO, CAHILL, ORTIZ, WALLACE, DICKENS, VANEL, PHEFFER

                    AMATO, WRIGHT, BARNWELL, PICHARDO, CUSICK, GALEF, LAVINE,

                    JEAN-PIERRE, QUART, RICHARDSON, NIOU, KIM, BICHOTTE, O'DONNELL,

                    DAVILA, COLTON, WOERNER, LENTOL, L. ROSENTHAL, D. ROSENTHAL,

                    WILLIAMS, CARROLL, DINOWITZ, SIMOTAS, PAULIN, PERRY, RODRIGUEZ,

                    JAFFEE, JONES, WEPRIN, ARROYO, EPSTEIN, BARRON, CYMBROWITZ,

                    PEOPLES-STOKES, SOLAGES, MCMAHON, BYRNE, FRIEND, REYES, CRUZ,

                    MCDONOUGH, MONTESANO, PALMESANO, RA, WALSH, LAWRENCE, M.L.

                    MILLER, BRABENEC, EICHENSTEIN, JACOBSON, GRIFFIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    TRANSPORTATION LAW, IN RELATION TO A STATE TRANSPORTATION PLAN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 193.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                                          9



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09891, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 194, MAGNARELLI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO APPLICATIONS FOR LICENSES; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF

                    SUCH LAW RELATING THERETO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 194.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09913, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 195, GUNTHER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO THE NEW YORK STATE ALS RESEARCH AND EDUCATION FUND.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         10



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 195.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09968, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 196, JEAN-PIERRE.  AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 122 OF THE LAWS OF

                    2015 RELATING TO TAX ASSESSMENTS FOR CERTAIN IMPROVED PROPERTIES

                    AFFECTED BY SUPERSTORM SANDY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE DEADLINE

                    FOR TAX EXEMPTION APPLICATIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10021-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 197, ENGLEBRIGHT, CARROLL, SIMON, JAFFEE, WILLIAMS, BLAKE,

                    SEAWRIGHT, L. ROSENTHAL, HYNDMAN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO CONTINUING EDUCATION FOR PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS,

                    LAND SURVEYORS AND PROFESSIONAL GEOLOGISTS; AND TO REPEAL SECTION 7212

                    OF THE EDUCATION LAW RELATING TO MANDATORY CONTINUING EDUCATION FOR

                    LAND SURVEYORS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST,

                    2022.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         11



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 197.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10097, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 198, DARLING.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF

                    HEMPSTEAD TO GRANT SOUTHERN TIER ENVIRONMENTS FOR LIVING, INC. A

                    PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    DARLING, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 198.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10119, RULES REPORT

                                         12



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    NO. 199, STIRPE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    DIRECTING EMPIRE STATE DEVELOPMENT TO PUBLISH AND MAINTAIN A LIST OF

                    AVAILABLE PROGRAMS TO ASSIST SMALL BUSINESSES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    STIRPE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 199.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10156, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 200, STIRPE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE NEW YORK STATE URBAN

                    DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION ACT AND THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO THE CREATION OF MICRO-BUSINESS WORKER COOPERATIVES UPON

                    TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    STIRPE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         13



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 200.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10193, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 201, ABINANTI, BUCHWALD, D'URSO, BUTTENSCHON, WALLACE, FALL.

                    AN ACT IN RELATION TO PROVIDING THAT CERTAIN SCHOOLS SHALL EXPERIENCE NO

                    FINANCIAL HARM FOR REDUCED ENROLLMENT OR INABILITY TO OPERATE FOR THE

                    FULL 180 SESSION DAYS DUE TO THE OUTBREAK OF CORONAVIRUS DISEASE 2019

                    (COVID-19).

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 201.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         14



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10222-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 202, BRONSON, KOLB.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC

                    BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO LICENSING RESTRICTIONS FOR

                    MANUFACTURERS AND WHOLESALERS OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ON LICENSEES

                    WHO SELL AT RETAIL FOR ON-PREMISES CONSUMPTION; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS OF SUCH LAW RELATING THERETO; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF

                    CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON THE EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 202.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IF WE COULD PLEASE LIST OUR COLLEAGUE MR. BARRON AS A

                    NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10307, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 203, CRUZ.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    REIMBURSEMENT OF EMPLOYMENT-RELATED TRANSPORTATION EXPENSES

                                         15



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    NECESSARY AS THE RESULT OF A CRIME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    CRUZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 203.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MR.

                    MONTESANO AS A NO VOTE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10349, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 204, FRONTUS, BARRON, LENTOL, ORTIZ, MOSLEY, REYES, SEAWRIGHT,

                    GOTTFRIED, PICHARDO, GRIFFIN, DARLING, D'URSO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING EMPLOYERS TO WARN EMPLOYEES OF

                    POTENTIAL HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTAL AND HEALTH CONDITIONS IN THE

                    WORKPLACE.

                                         16



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 2004 [SIC].  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10353-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 205, AUBRY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    REQUIRING EMPLOYERS TO NOTIFY EMPLOYEES IF THEY COME INTO CONTACT

                    WITH OTHER EMPLOYEES WHO HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED IN RELATION TO A

                    DISEASE OUTBREAK CAUSING A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 205.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         17



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10464-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 206, COMMITTEE ON RULES (GUNTHER, LUPARDO, PAULIN,

                    BUTTENSCHON, MOSLEY, SIMON, THIELE, ENGLEBRIGHT, BARRETT, JAFFEE,

                    DIPIETRO, DESTEFANO, FINCH, CROUCH, MONTESANO, B. MILLER, WOERNER,

                    GOODELL, COLTON, TAGUE).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE AGRICULTURE AND

                    MARKETS LAW, IN RELATION TO LAND USED IN AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION; AND

                    PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 206.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10467, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 207, COMMITTEE ON RULES (FERNANDEZ).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN RELATION TO PREVENTING TEMPORARY

                    QUESTIONING OF A PERSON SOLELY BECAUSE SUCH PERSON IS WEARING A MASK

                    DURING A STATE OF EMERGENCY FOR AN EPIDEMIC OR PANDEMIC.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10500-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 208, COMMITTEE ON RULES (GOTTFRIED, PAULIN, DINOWITZ,

                                         18



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    JAFFEE, MCDONALD, GALEF, SIMON, SOLAGES, BRONSON, HUNTER, NIOU,

                    ZEBROWSKI, QUART, CRUZ, ASHBY, LENTOL, WEPRIN, EPSTEIN, MOSLEY,

                    ABINANTI, PERRY, PICHARDO, BLAKE, ENGLEBRIGHT, SEAWRIGHT, ORTIZ,

                    REYES, L. ROSENTHAL, FERNANDEZ, SIMOTAS, CAHILL, JACOBSON, FRONTUS,

                    MCMAHON, SMITH, THIELE, COLTON, STERN, RODRIGUEZ, DICKENS, TAYLOR,

                    OTIS, LUPARDO, FAHY, STECK, LAVINE, CYMBROWITZ, WRIGHT, RAMOS,

                    WALKER).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    CONFIDENTIALITY OF CONTACT TRACING INFORMATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 208.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THERE

                    ARE THREE POINTS IN THE BILL WHERE I NEED TO MAKE CLEAR THE LEGISLATIVE

                    INTENT.  FIRST, SECTION 2181, SUBDIVISION 2, PARAGRAPH (A) PROVIDES THAT

                    A WAIVER OF CONFIDENTIALITY MAY BE MADE BY A PERSON AUTHORIZED TO

                    CONSENT TO HEALTHCARE FOR A PERSON OR A LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE.  PARAGRAPH

                    (B) SAYS THAT A WAIVER FOR PROVIDING OF SUPPORT ONLY APPLIES IF THE

                    INDIVIDUAL CONSENTS TO THE PROVIDING OF THE SUPPORT.  WHILE THE

                    SENTENCE DOES NOT, ON ITS FACE, REFER TO CONSENT BY ANOTHER PERSON

                    WHERE THE INDIVIDUAL LACKS CAPACITY, IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS IS INTENDED.

                                         19



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    OTHERWISE IT WOULD CREATE AN IRRATIONAL AND UNINTENDED RESULT, MAKING

                    IT EFFECTIVELY IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVIDE CONSENT TO ENABLE SUPPORT SERVICES

                    FOR A PERSON WHO LACKS CAPACITY TO CONSENT.

                                 SECOND, SECTION 2181, SUBDIVISION 6 BEGINS SAYING,

                    QUOTE, "NO CONTACT TRACER OR CONTACT TRACING ENTITY MAY PROVIDE CONTACT

                    TRACING INFORMATION TO A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENT OR ENTITY OR

                    IMMIGRATION AUTHORITY," UNQUOTE.  IT ENDS WITH A STATEMENT, QUOTE,

                    "HOWEVER, THIS SUBDIVISION DOES NOT RESTRICT PROVIDING INFORMATION

                    RELATING TO A SPECIFIED PRINCIPAL INDIVIDUAL OR CONTACT INDIVIDUAL, WHERE

                    AND ONLY TO THE EXTENT NECESSARY FOR A PERMITTED PURPOSE", UNQUOTE.

                    THIS CREATES AN EXCEPTION TO AND MODIFIES THE OPENING STATEMENT,

                    SPECIFICALLY FOR INFORMATION ABOUT A SPECIFIED INDIVIDUAL AND CONFINED

                    TO WHAT IS NECESSARY FOR THE "PERMITTED PURPOSE."  THIS IS PLAIN

                    LANGUAGE.

                                 THREE, SECTION 2181, SUBDIVISION 7, PARAGRAPH (B)

                    DEALS WITH CONTACT TRACING INFORMATION THAT IS "POSSESSED OR CONTROLLED"

                    BY A NON-GOVERNMENTAL INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY.  WITHIN 30 DAYS AFTER THAT

                    INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY GETS THE INFORMATION, IT MUST RETURN IT TO A

                    GOVERNMENTAL CONTACT TRACING ENTITY, EXPUNGE IT OR DE-IDENTIFY IT.

                                 NEW YORK CITY USES A PRIVATE COMPANY TO HOUSE ITS

                    CONTACT TRACING INFORMATION.  THE CITY SAYS THE INFORMATION IS FULLY

                    ENCRYPTED, IS ONLY ACCESSIBLE BY THE GOVERNMENTAL CONTACT TRACING

                    ENTITY, AND THAT THE COMPANY HAS NO ACCESS TO OR CONTROL OF THE

                    INFORMATION.  THE COMPANY IS NOT ABLE TO DELIVER IT TO ANYONE.  ONLY

                    THE GOVERNMENTAL CONTACT TRACING ENTITY CAN DO THAT.  THIS IS LIKE

                                         20



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PROPERTY BEING IN A SEALED CONTAINER IN A BANK SAFETY DEPOSIT BOX OR A

                    LOCKED MINI-STORAGE SPACE, WHERE ONLY THE CITY HAS THE KEY.

                                 WHERE THIS IS IN FACT THE CASE, IT IS CLEAR, AND IS THE

                    LEGISLATIVE INTENT, THAT THIS CONTACT TRACING INFORMATION WOULD NOT BE

                    CONSIDERED TO BE "POSSESSED OR CONTROLLED" BY THE NON-GOVERNMENTAL

                    INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY, FOR PURPOSES OF PARAGRAPH (B).  IT WOULD BE

                    "POSSESSED OR CONTROLLED" BY THE GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY.

                                 IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE BILL REQUIRES THE STATE

                    AND CITY HEALTH DEPARTMENTS TO ADOPT VERY STRINGENT REGULATIONS TO

                    SECURE ALL CONTACT TRACING INFORMATION.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10513, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 209, COMMITTEE ON RULES (HEVESI, JAFFEE).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO REPORTING DATA ON CHILD WELFARE

                    PREVENTIVE SERVICES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10563-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 210, COMMITTEE ON RULES (BUTTENSCHON, BRAUNSTEIN,

                    CUSICK, GRIFFIN).  AN ACT TO CREDIT DAYS TO RETAIL ON-PREMISES LICENSEES

                    THAT WERE UNABLE TO OPERATE AS A RESULT OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC;

                                         21



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION

                    THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 210.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. BUTTENSCHON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. BUTTENSCHON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    NEW YORK STATE IS AMONG THE HARDEST HIT FOR THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC,

                    BOTH IN THE NUMBER OF INFECTIONS AND DEATHS AS WELL AS ECONOMIC

                    IMPACTS.  SMALL BUSINESSES INCLUDING OUR RESTAURANTS AND BARS ARE

                    STRUGGLING OR STILL ATTEMPTING TO REOPEN.  WE MUST DO EVERYTHING IN OUR

                    POWER TO PROTECT AND SUPPORT NEW YORK'S SMALL BUSINESSES.  ENACTING

                    THIS LEGISLATION WOULD PROVIDE THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY WITH THE

                    NECESSARY STATUTORY AUTHORITY TO PROVIDE A CREDIT ON LIQUOR LICENSE

                    RENEWALS FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS THAT IN THE DIRECT PROPORTIONS TO THE

                    AMOUNT OF TIME IN WHICH THEY WOULD SHUT DOWN DUE TO THE COVID-19

                    PANDEMIC.

                                 ACCORDING TO AN APRIL 2020 SURVEY BY THE NATIONAL

                    RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION AND THE NEW YORK STATE RESTAURANT

                    ASSOCIATION, SALES WERE IN THE LOSSES OF BILLIONS.  IN ADDITION, WELL OVER

                    500,000 RESTAURANT EMPLOYEES HAVE BEEN LAID OFF OR FURLOUGHED, WHICH

                                         22



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    EQUATES TO ABOUT 80 PERCENT OF ALL EMPLOYEES IN THIS INDUSTRY.  THIS

                    LOSS OF BUSINESS NECESSITATES THAT NEW YORK STATE AND THE STATE LIQUOR

                    AUTHORITY SHOULD PROVIDE A CREDIT TO THESE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WHO

                    HAVE BEEN GREATLY IMPACTED ON THEIR NEXT LIQUOR LICENSES.  THIS

                    LEGISLATION WILL ALLOW ANY ON-PREMISE LICENSEE AND ANY MANUFACTURING

                    LICENSEE WITH THE PREMISES RETAIL PRIVILEGES THAT (UNINTELLIGIBLE) IN

                    PURSUIT OF THE ALCOHOL [SIC] BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW TO RECEIVE A CREDIT

                    ON THE NEXT RENEWAL OF THEIR LICENSE ON A PRORATED BASIS FOR THE INACTIVE

                    DAYS THAT THE COVID-19 CRISIS AFFECTED THEM, UP TO 90 DAYS.

                                 I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION.

                    THANK YOU.  I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. BUTTENSCHON IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10607-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 211, COMMITTEE ON RULES (LUPARDO, BARRETT, ROZIC,

                    GRIFFIN, BUTTENSCHON, STERN, MCDONALD, CAHILL, WOERNER, MAGNARELLI,

                    DICKENS, THIELE, SEAWRIGHT, GALEF, REYES, STIRPE, L. ROSENTHAL, FAHY,

                    SIMON, GOTTFRIED, LIFTON, CROUCH, MCDONOUGH, TAGUE, PALMESANO,

                    RODRIGUEZ, MANKTELOW).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE AGRICULTURE AND

                    MARKETS LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A NEW YORK FOOD SUPPLY

                    WORKING GROUP.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         23



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 211.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10628, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 212, COMMITTEE ON RULES (HYNDMAN, SIMOTAS, PERRY, LUPARDO,

                    SCHMITT, BUCHWALD, RODRIGUEZ, REYES).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    CONSTRUCTION LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING JUNE 19TH AS A PUBLIC

                    HOLIDAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10629-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 213, COMMITTEE ON RULES (GUNTHER, WALLACE).  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE

                    FRONTLINE WORKERS TRAUMA INFORMED CARE ADVISORY COUNCIL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 213.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                         24



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10653-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 214, COMMITTEE ON RULES (JAFFEE).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    HIGHWAY LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE

                    HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE "SANDRA L. WILSON MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 214.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10707, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 215, COMMITTEE ON RULES (PEOPLES-STOKES).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO A LICENSE TO SELL LIQUOR

                    AT RETAIL FOR CONSUMPTION ON CERTAIN PREMISES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         25



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 215.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  I ACTUALLY WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU TO RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE

                    MEMBER BARRON IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10769, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 216, COMMITTEE ON RULES (STIRPE).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE

                    ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE ACT AND THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE DIVISION FOR SMALL BUSINESS TO PUBLISH A

                    SMALL BUSINESS COMPLIANCE GUIDE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    STIRPE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 216.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                                         26



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10786-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 217, COMMITTEE ON RULES (STERN).  AN ACT IN RELATION TO

                    ESTABLISHING A CAUMSETT STATE PARK FIRE READINESS STUDY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 217.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10798, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 218, COMMITTEE ON RULES (BARNWELL).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING CONTRACTORS AND

                    SUBCONTRACTORS TO DISCLOSE THE EXISTENCE OF PROPERTY AND CASUALTY

                    INSURANCE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10807, RULES REPORT

                                         27



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    NO. 219, COMMITTEE ON RULES (TAYLOR).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUESTS FOR ABSENTEE BALLOTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 219.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 ONE MINUTE.  MR. GOODELL.  I'M SORRY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  BEFORE YOU ANNOUNCE

                    THE VOTE, MR. SCHMITT WILL BE NO ON THIS.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  MR.

                    SCHMITT A NO.

                                 ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU.  COLLEAGUES,

                    IF WE COULD NOW TURN OUR ATTENTION TO OUR DEBATE LIST.  WE'RE GOING TO

                    START WITH CALENDAR NO. 216 WHICH IS BY MS. WEINSTEIN, FOLLOWED BY

                    226 BY MS. WEINSTEIN, 228 BY MR. RYAN AND 235 BY MS. WILLIAMS.  IN

                    THAT ORDER, MR. SPEAKER.  THANK YOU.

                                         28



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 RULES REPORT -- CALENDAR NO. 216, PAGE 38, THE CLERK

                    WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05630-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 216, WEINSTEIN, LUPARDO, ZEBROWSKI, TAYLOR, BRONSON.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE GENERAL OBLIGATIONS LAW, IN RELATION TO REFORMING THE

                    STATUTORY SHORT FORM AND OTHER POWERS OF ATTORNEY FOR PURPOSES OF

                    FINANCIAL AND ESTATE PLANNING; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH

                    LAW RELATING TO STATUTORY GIFT RIDERS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. WEINSTEIN.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  OKAY.  HERE WE GO.  SO, THE --

                    THIS BILL WAS DRAFTED ON BEHALF OF THE NEW YORK STATE BAR, AND IT

                    WOULD SIMPLIFY THE CURRENT POWER OF ATTORNEY FORM WHICH IS BEEN

                    PROVEN TO BE TOO COMPLEX AND PRONE TO IMPROPER EXECUTION.  SO, THIS

                    WOULD ALLOW ANY POWER OF ATTORNEY WHICH SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIES WITH

                    THE STATUTE THAT WILL BE CONSIDERED A VALID POWER OF ATTORNEY.  THE

                    CURRENT LAW REQUIRES AN EXACT MATCH AND HAS -- THAT'S PROVEN UNDULY

                    BURDENSOME AND HAS INVALIDATED A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO

                    (UNINTELLIGIBLE) SLIGHTLY OFF (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- AN AGGREGATE

                    (UNINTELLIGIBLE) $500 LIMIT TO $5,000 WHICH -- WITHOUT REQUIRING

                    MODIFICATION (UNINTELLIGIBLE).  SO THAT'S THE -- A SHORT EXPLANATION AND

                    I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MONTESANO.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                                         29



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES, I'M HAPPY TO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WEINSTEIN

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  SO, FIRST I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT

                    WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME MODIFICATION TO THIS POWER OF ATTORNEY

                    BECAUSE IT IS VERY CUMBERSOME AND LENDS ITSELF TO SOME PROCEDURAL

                    ERRORS IF YOU'RE NOT -- IF THE DRAFTER IS NOT VERY CAREFUL.  I JUST HAVE A

                    COUPLE OF CONCERNS, AND ONE OF THEM IS AS -- I WANT TO VISIT THE -- THE

                    EXECUTION OF THE POWER OF ATTORNEY.  SO IF THE PRINCIPAL IS FOR SOME

                    REASON PHYSICALLY DISABLED OR IN SOME MATTER OF FORM IS UNABLE TO SIGN

                    THE POWER OF ATTORNEY THEMSELVES, IS IT MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS BILL

                    THAT THE AGENT FOR THAT PRINCIPAL IS PERMITTED TO SIGN THE POWER OF

                    ATTORNEY IN THE PRINCIPAL'S PLACE?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  I -- I BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  OKAY.  SO WHAT THIS BILL ALLOWS

                    IS SO IF I'M DOING A POWER OF ATTORNEY AND I'M GOING TO BE THE PRINCIPAL

                    AND I'M GOING TO NAME YOU AS MY AGENT, RIGHT, BECAUSE I HAVE SOME

                    PHYSICAL INCAPACITATION, I'M GOING TO ALLOW YOU, AS THE AGENT, TO SIGN

                    MY NAME TO THAT POWER OF ATTORNEY GIVING YOU THE AUTHORITY AS MY

                    AGENT?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  OKAY.  BECAUSE I REMEMBER

                    THAT ISSUE CAME UP A LONG TIME AGO, AND IT PRESENTED A PROBLEM

                    BECAUSE IT'S LIKE SELF DEALING.  HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THE INTEGRITY OF

                                         30



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THAT DOCUMENT IF YOU'RE ALLOWING THE PURPORTED AGENT TO SIGN THE NAME

                    OF THE PRINCIPAL APPOINTING THEM AS THE AGENT?  TO ME, THAT'S A SERIOUS

                    FLAW.  AND, I MEAN, THIS BILL HAS TO REMEDY THAT BECAUSE THAT'S THE

                    DANGEROUS PRECEDENT TO LEND ITSELF TO FRAUD AND ABUSE.  AND I

                    UNDERSTAND THE BILL SAYS THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS TO WITNESS THAT

                    SIGNATURE, BUT I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU, WE'RE ALL IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION,

                    HOW MANY TIMES PEOPLE ARE THE VICTIMS OF FRAUD BECAUSE PEOPLE

                    COLLUDE TO DEFRAUD THEM.  WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT CHANGING THAT

                    PORTION, THE SIGNING OF THE DOCUMENT?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  WELL, THIS IS A PROJECT THAT'S BEEN

                    WORKED ON, GETTING TO THIS AMENDMENT - AS YOU SAY, AND I AGREE WITH

                    YOU - TO SIMPLIFY THE FORM.  (UNINTELLIGIBLE) COMMISSION -- A BLUE

                    RIBBON GROUP OF ATTORNEYS.  THERE WERE -- THE TRIAL LAWYERS HAVE

                    CONSIDERED THIS ISSUE AND THE STATE BAR FEELS THAT THE -- THERE ARE

                    ENOUGH PROTECTIONS BECAUSE -- IN PARTICULAR WE HAVE THE ISSUE WITH

                    PRESENTATION TO A BANK WHERE NOW SOME BANKS REQUIRE THEIR -- THEIR

                    OWN FORM, WHICH IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE IF THE PERSON'S ALREADY

                    INCAPACITATED --

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  RIGHT.  ALL THE REST OF THAT I

                    UNDERSTAND.  I JUST HAVE A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH THE PERSON WHO IS

                    BEING DESIGNATED THE AGENT OF THIS POWER TO BE ABLE TO SIGN THE

                    PRINCIPAL'S NAME, GIVING THEMSELVES THAT POWER.  I JUST THINK IT'S A --

                    IT'S A REAL CONFLICT.  BUT I'LL MOVE ON.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  SO LET ME ASK YOU, HOW MANY

                                         31



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WITNESSES ARE NOW REQUIRED ON THIS NEW POWER OF ATTORNEY?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  WE ELIMINATE THE NEED ON THE --

                    ON THE GIFT RIDER.  WE ELIMINATE THAT -- THAT WHOLE SITUATION OF NEEDING

                    TWO ADDITIONAL WITNESSES, WHICH HAS PROVEN --

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  BUT IS THE GIFT RIDER STILL A

                    SEPARATE DOCUMENT FROM THE POWER OF ATTORNEY ITSELF?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  NO, IT'S A MODIFICATION FORM

                    WITHIN -- WITHIN THE FORM.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  OKAY.  SO AND THAT

                    MODIFICATION FORM HAS TO BE EXECUTED -- PREPARED AND EXECUTED THE

                    SAME TIME THE POWER OF ATTORNEY IS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  ALL RIGHT.  SO THEN WE JUST HAVE

                    TWO WITNESSES TO THE DOCUMENT?  RIGHT?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  JUST ONE WITNESS.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.  IT'S (UNINTELLIGIBLE) SEPARATE.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  NOW I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS

                    GOVERNOR'S EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT WAS OUT THERE ABOUT THIS VIRTUAL

                    NOTARIZATION.  THERE'S -- ARE YOU LOOKING -- DOES THIS BILL NOW

                    INCORPORATE THAT TO BECOME PERMANENT THAT THESE DOCUMENTS CAN BE

                    SIGNED AND NOTARIZED VIRTUALLY?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  NO, IT DOESN'T.  HOWEVER, YOU

                    POINT OUT PART OF THE IMPORTANT NEED TO --TO MAKE THESE CHANGES,

                    PARTICULARLY IN NURSING HOMES AND ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES WHERE

                                         32



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    VISITORS ARE -- ARE LIMITED.  IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET ADDITIONAL WITNESSES

                    SOMETIMES IN PERSON.  BUT THE EXECUTIVE ORDER REGARDING REMOTE

                    SIGNING NOTARIZATION IS -- WOULD -- WOULD BE DEALT WITH UNDER CURRENT --

                    UNDER THE EXECUTIVE ORDER, BUT WE DO NOT MAKE IT PERMANENT IN

                    (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  FAIR ENOUGH.  NOW JUST TO TALK

                    ABOUT THE -- THE GIFTS, YOU KNOW, TO THE AGENT AND OTHERS.  SO I KNOW

                    SOME OF THE CONCERNS WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A --

                    IF THIS BILL PASSES, THERE'S A $5,000 LIMITATION ON GIFTS VERSUS THE CURRENT

                    $500.  SO IF THIS HAS TO BE USED FOR ESTATE PLANNING, RIGHT, IN ORDER TO,

                    YOU KNOW, TO DO A MEDICAID TRUST OR QUALIFY FOR MEDICAID, THE AGENT

                    CAN TRANSFER THE ASSETS OF THE PRINCIPAL TO A TRUST OR TO SOME OTHER

                    INDIVIDUAL HOLDING PERSON, AND -- WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED A GIFT OR

                    JUST A TRANSFER IN ANTICIPATION OF MEDICAID?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  NO, IT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A

                    GIFT.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  OKAY.  AND AS FAR AS THE

                    FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND OTHER, YOU KNOW, PLACES, WHETHER IT BE

                    HOSPITALS OR WHATEVER, TO LOOK AT -- TO ACCEPT THIS POWER OF ATTORNEY.  I

                    UNDERSTAND NOW THAT THIS NEW DOCUMENT DOESN'T HAVE TO READ VERBATIM

                    WHAT THE STATUTE PROVIDES, AS LONG AS THE LANGUAGE SHOWS THE INTENT OF

                    WHAT THE PRINCIPAL WOULD LIKE TO DO?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YOU'RE CORRECT.  THE WORDING IS

                    "SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIES."

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  OKAY.  AND IF THE FINANCIAL

                                         33



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    INSTITUTION OR OTHER FACILITY UNREASONABLY DENIES ACCEPTANCE OF THIS

                    POWER OF ATTORNEY, THE PRINCIPAL OR THE AGENT WOULD HAVE A CAUSE OF

                    ACTION AGAINST THEM?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  WELL, YES.  WE -- WE --

                    POTENTIALLY WE PROVIDE A SAFE HARBOR FOR THE INSTITUTION WHERE THEY CAN

                    ASK FOR A LETTER OF COUNSEL VERIFYING THAT THE AGENT HAS THE AUTHORITY TO

                    -- TO MAKE THIS -- MAKE THE TRANSACTION AND IF THAT ISN'T ACCEPTED BY THE

                    INSTITUTION, THERE IS A PROCESS TO BE ABLE TO GO INTO COURT AND GET

                    DAMAGES IF -- IF IT'S BEEN PROVEN TO BE WILLFULLY WITHHELD.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  AND I UNDERSTAND THAT TITLE

                    COMPANIES ALSO ARE GOING TO BE BOUND BY THESE, SO I PRESUME THE SMART

                    PRACTITIONER OR WHOEVER PREPARES THIS POWER OF ATTORNEY IN THE

                    MODIFICATIONS SECTION WOULD SPELL OUT THE AUTHORITY FOR REAL ESTATE

                    TRANSACTIONS.  BECAUSE THERE'S STILL GOING TO BE THE BOX TO INITIAL, AM I

                    CORRECT, FOR REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS?  THOSE BOXES ARE STILL GOING TO BE

                    THERE?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.  THEY'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE

                    THAT.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, MS.

                    WEINSTEIN.  YOU KNOW, I'M -- I'M HAPPY OF THE FACT, AS MY OPENING

                    COMMENTS WERE, THAT WE'RE ABLE TO STREAMLINE AND MODIFY THIS POWER

                    OF ATTORNEY.  MY YEARS IN PRACTICE I'VE SEEN A SHIFT IN THE WAY THEY'RE

                                         34



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    DESIGNED, AND WE WENT FROM THE ONE- AND TWO-PAGE FORM TO THIS 14-15

                    PAGE FORM.  SO THEY ARE VERY CONFUSING, VERY DIFFICULT TO -- TO WORK

                    WITH.  HOWEVER, MY BIGGEST CONCERN -- AND THIS - I RAISED THIS CONCERN

                    A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN THIS BILL CAME UP - IS THAT I FIND IT ABSOLUTELY,

                    ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS THAT PEOPLE FROM A BAR ASSOCIATION THAT WERE

                    INVOLVED IN THIS BLUE RIBBON PANEL THAT WAS INVOLVED IN DOING THE

                    CHANGES TO THIS DOCUMENT WOULD ACTUALLY STAND THERE AND SAY IT'S OKAY

                    FOR THE DESIGNATED AGENT TO SIGN FOR THE PRINCIPAL, THUS GIVING

                    THEMSELVES THE POWER TO ACT ON BEHALF OF THE PRINCIPAL.  THAT'S THE MOST

                    SELF-SERVING THING THAT I'VE EVER SEEN.  IT LEAVES ITSELF FOR FRAUD AND

                    ABUSE, FOR PEOPLE TO BE THREATENED.  YOU KNOW, FOR ALL KINDS OF THINGS

                    TO GO WRONG.  AND IT JUST ESCAPES MY MIND HOW THEY WOULD THINK OF

                    THIS.  AND EVEN THEY SAY, WELL, IF THE AGENT'S GOING TO SIGN IN PLACE OF

                    THE PRINCIPAL IT HAS TO BE WITNESSED BY SOMEONE ELSE.  LISTEN, WE'VE ALL

                    BEEN AROUND, ESPECIALLY THOSE OF US IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION.  HOW MANY

                    TIMES ARE WILLS PRODUCED IN AN AREA OF FRAUD WHERE PEOPLE COLLUDE

                    TOGETHER TO EXECUTE WILLS FRAUDULENTLY?  WHAT'S TO STOP PEOPLE IN THE

                    SAME FAMILY FROM GETTING TOGETHER AND COLLUDING TO CREATE THIS POWER

                    OF ATTORNEY AND -- AND DEFRAUD THE PRINCIPAL?  SO -- AND, YOU KNOW, I

                    THOUGHT THIS WENT AWAY THE LAST TIME, THIS PROVISION, WHEN I SAW THESE

                    NEW AMENDMENTS COMING OUT.  I REALLY THOUGHT THEY GOT RID OF THIS.

                    AND IT JUST -- IT JUST SHOCKS MY MIND THAT -- THAT ATTORNEYS THAT WERE

                    INVOLVED IN THIS WOULD ACTUALLY CONDONE THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR.  AND

                    FOR THAT REASON ALONE IT'S REALLY UPSETTING TO ME THAT WE CAN'T -- THAT I

                    CAN'T SUPPORT THIS BILL BECAUSE IT SERVES OTHER GOOD PURPOSES THAT ARE

                                         35



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ABSOLUTELY NEEDED.  IT IS THAT THIS PART IS STILL A STUMBLING BLOCK FOR ME,

                    AND FOR THAT REASON I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SUPPORT IT.  I WOULD HAVE TO

                    VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.  AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES IN THIS

                    HOUSE TO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THAT PROVISION, BECAUSE A LONG TIME AGO

                    THIS BILL WAS KNOCKED OFF A COMMITTEE CALENDAR FOR THAT VERY REASON.

                    AND THOSE OF US IN THIS HOUSE WHO HAVE A BACKGROUND IN THE LAW

                    SHOULD REALLY SEE THIS PROBLEM FOR WHAT IT IS AND NOT SUPPORT THIS BILL

                    UNTIL THAT PARTICULAR PROVISION IS TAKEN OUT.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. GARBARINO.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WEINSTEIN, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  SURE, I'M HAPPY TO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WEINSTEIN

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.

                    WEINSTEIN.  I JUST HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS.  I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON

                    SOMETHING THAT MY COLLEAGUE BROUGHT UP.  I AGREE THAT THIS -- THERE ARE

                    SOME GOOD CHANGES IN THIS BILL, THE $500 TO $5,000 GIFT -- GIFT LIMIT,

                    THAT'S -- THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.  THE SUBSTANTIAL CONFORMANCE --

                    COMPLIANCE WITH THE -- THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.  BUT I DON'T

                    UNDERSTAND.  WHEN I GRADUATED LAW SCHOOL IN 2009 AND BECOME AN --

                                         36



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND TAKING THE BAR, THIS HAD JUST PASSED, THE NEW STATUTORY -- THE NEW

                    FORM JUST PASSED.  AND I REMEMBER THE BOSS AT THE FIRM SAID, YOU'RE

                    GOING TO GO TO THE CLE AND LEARN HOW TO DO THESE NEW POWER OF

                    ATTORNEY FORMS.  AND WHEN I WENT THERE THEY TALKED ABOUT THE REASON

                    FOR THE CHANGE WAS THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ELDERLY PEOPLE

                    THAT WERE SIGNING THESE THINGS IN THE PAST HAD BEEN TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF

                    BY AGENTS, AND NOW THAT'S WHY WE CHANGED THE FORM.  IT SEEMS LIKE

                    WE'RE -- WE ARE GETTING -- WE'RE TAKING BACK SOME OF THOSE CHANGES THAT

                    WERE -- WERE DONE TO PROTECT THE PRINCIPALS.  SPECIFICALLY, THE -- GETTING

                    RID OF THE STATUTORY GIFT RIDER.  THE POWER OF ATTORNEY I BELIEVE

                    CURRENTLY, UNDER CURRENT LAW, ONLY NEEDS THE PRINCIPAL AND THE AGENT TO

                    SIGN AND BOTH OF THOSE SIGNATURES NEED TO BE NOTARIZED, CORRECT?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  AND THEN IF THERE'S A

                    STATUTORY GIFT RIDER, ONE, THE PRINCIPAL HAS TO INITIAL THAT THERE'S A

                    STATUTORY GIFT RIDER ATTACHED IN THE POWER OF ATTORNEY, THEN THERE'S THE

                    SEPARATE -- THEN THERE'S THE RIDER, WHICH TO MY BELIEF NEEDS A SIGNATURE,

                    NOTARIZATION AND TWO WITNESSES.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  AND -- AND A LOT OF -- A

                    LOT OF PEOPLE USE THIS FOR ESTATE PLANNING, AS -- AS MY COLLEAGUE SAID.

                    YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANT TO CREATE -- THEY WANT TO MAKE TRANSFERS SO

                    THEY CAN QUALIFY FOR MEDICAID.  YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES WE HAVE A

                    SPOUSAL EXCEPTION IN NEW YORK SO PEOPLE CAN TRANSFER -- SPOUSES CAN

                    TRANSFER ASSETS BETWEEN EACH OTHER AND QUALIFY FOR MEDICAID WITHIN 30

                                         37



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    DAYS.  THERE'S A SPECIFIC SECTION THAT REQUIRES THE AGENT IF, YOU KNOW,

                    SAY YOU HAVE YOUR SPOUSE'S POWER OF ATTORNEY, IN THAT GIFT RIDER NOW

                    THERE'S A SPECIFIC SECTION THAT MAKES YOU INITIAL IN THAT GIFT RIDER SO THIS

                    -- THE AGENT CAN MAKE A TRANSFER TO THEMSELVES, CORRECT?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  ARE WE GETTING RID OF THAT

                    PROTECTION HERE?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  WELL LET ME JUST SAY THAT PART OF

                    THE ISSUE WITH THE GIFT RIDER IS I THINK WE ENDED UP GOING A LITTLE TOO FAR

                    BY NEEDING THE EXTRA -- THE -- THE TWO WITNESSES, ONCE THAT BECAME LAW

                    WE STARTED TO HEAR FROM PARTICULARLY ELDER LAW ATTORNEYS THAT IT WAS

                    DIFFICULT IF SOMEONE WAS HOMEBOUND, IF SOMEONE WAS IN A FACILITY, TO

                    BE ABLE TO HAVE THE ADDITIONAL WITNESSES.  SO IN PUTTING IN THE

                    PROTECTION WE ENDED UP CREATING A SITUATION WHERE IT WAS DIFFICULT TO

                    EVEN GET THE POWER OF ATTORNEY SIGNED.  SO SOME OF THE -- SOME OF THE

                    PROTECTIONS ARE NOW IN THAT THE INSTITUTION CAN ASK FOR A LETTER -- A LETTER

                    FROM COUNSEL THAT THE AGENT HAS THE LEGITIMATE POWER TO ACT ON BEHALF

                    OF -- OF THE PRINCIPAL, AND CAN HAVE A COURT PROCEEDING TO ACTUALLY

                    DETERMINE IF -- IF THERE'S STILL CONCERN ABOUT ACCEPTING THAT -- THAT

                    POWER.  BUT WE DON'T -- WE STILL HAVE NOW IN THE ONE FORM THE ABILITY TO

                    HAVE -- I THINK THE QUESTION WAS ALSO ABOUT HAVING THE AGENT BE ABLE TO

                    TRANSFER PROPERTY TO -- RESOURCES TO THEMSELVES.  THERE'S NOT A

                    PROHIBITION ABOUT THAT, BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO INDICATE THAT ON -- ON --

                    ON THIS CHANGED POWER OF ATTORNEY.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  SO THEY WOULD -- INSTEAD OF JUST

                                         38



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    INITIALING A BOX NOW THAT SAYS THE AGENT CAN -- BECAUSE IN THE -- IN THE

                    GIFT RIDER -- THE SPECIFIC SECTION THAT'S PART OF THE GIFT RIDER THAT SAYS MY

                    AGENT CAN MAKE GIFTS TO THEMSELVES.  NOW YOU HAVE TO SPECIFICALLY TAKE

                    THAT AND ADD THAT INTO THE MODIFICATION SECTION OF THE POWER OF

                    ATTORNEY?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  LET ME -- LET ME CHECK MY NOTES

                    ON -- ON THAT.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 YES, I BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  SO I -- I REMEMBER WHEN

                    THIS FIRST CAME OUT THERE WERE -- IT DID INCLUDE -- INCLUDE A LOT OF PEOPLE

                    FOR EXECUTION.  THE NOTARY -- YOU HAD TO HAVE TWO WITNESSES AND A

                    NOTARY.  I BELIEVE WE CHANGED IT TO MAKE IT -- TO MAKE IT SO THAT THE

                    NOTARY COULD ALSO BE ONE OF THE WITNESSES BECAUSE THEY WERE PROVIDING

                    SERVICES SO THAT DROPPED IT DOWN BY ONE PERSON.  YOU KNOW, I'M -- I'M

                    AN ATTORNEY, I'M A NOTARY, SO I'VE DONE -- I'VE DONE PLENTY OF THESE.

                    AND I -- I DO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, GETTING EVERYBODY TOGETHER AND --

                    AND IT TAKES A LONG TIME BECAUSE THERE'S INITIALING, A LOT OF INITIALING

                    THAT HAS TO GO ON, THE SIGNATURES.  BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE -- THE

                    PROTECTIONS THAT WERE INTENDED IN 2009 THAT, YOU KNOW, I LEARNED ABOUT

                    IN THAT CLE COURSE ABOUT WHAT THE LEGISLATURE WAS DOING WERE, YOU

                    KNOW, THEY ARE -- THOSE -- THOSE ITEMS ARE MET UNDER THE CURRENT FORM.

                    AND BY GETTING RID OF THE STATUTORY GIFT RIDER WHICH REQUIRED ADDITIONAL

                    WITNESSES TO MAKE SURE -- BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS WASN'T JUST NORMAL,

                    YOU KNOW, OKAY, YOU CAN -- YOU CAN GO AND HELP WITH A BANKING

                                         39



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    TRANSACTION, YOU CAN GO AND DO AN ESTATE TRANSACTION.  THIS SPECIFICALLY

                    SAID, YOU KNOW, TO BE ABLE TO TAKE MORE THAN $500 OUT OF SOMEBODY'S

                    ACCOUNT AND MAKE A TRANSFER, YOU HAD TO HAVE THIS ADDITIONAL RIDER.  IT

                    WAS JUST THAT ADDITIONAL PROTECTION SO SOMEBODY COULDN'T BE TAKEN

                    ADVANTAGE OF, WHICH WAS THE WHOLE REASON WE CHANGED THE FORM TO

                    BEGIN WITH.  BUT NOW, AS MY COLLEAGUE BROUGHT UP, WE ARE GETTING RID

                    OF THE STATUTORY GIFT RIDER, AND NOW WE'RE ALSO GETTING RID OF -- WE'RE

                    ALLOWING THE AGENT TO BE ABLE TO SIGN FOR THE PRINCIPAL.  SO THE AGENTS --

                    THERE'S A SITUATION WHERE THE AGENT COULD SIGN FOR THE PRINCIPAL, SIGN FOR

                    THEM SELF, AND INITIAL THE SECTION THAT ALLOWS THE AGENT TO MAKE

                    TRANSFERS TO THE PRINCIPAL TO THEM -- TO THEMSELVES.  ALL IN ONE BIG FORM

                    WITHOUT ANY OTHER WITNESSES OTHER THAN A NOTARIZATION WHICH NOW CAN

                    BE DONE -- YOU KNOW, BY EXECUTIVE ORDER WE CAN DO IT VIRTUALLY.  I JUST

                    THINK, ESPECIALLY WITH WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW, THIS IS GETTING RID OF A

                    LOT OF PROTECTIONS THAT WE HAD TO PROTECT AGAINST BAD ACTORS AND WE'RE

                    GIVING THEM A FOOT BACK IN THE DOOR AFTER -- AND I'M -- I'M CONCERNED

                    THAT -- YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I THINK A LOT OF THE BILL IS GOOD AND IT

                    MAKES SENSE.  I JUST DON'T KNOW THE REASON FOR GETTING RID OF THE

                    ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT DEALS WITH TRANSFERS OF

                    ASSETS.

                                 I -- I THANK YOU, MS. WEINSTEIN.  I DO APPRECIATE YOU

                    ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  IF I COULD JUST -- BECAUSE YOU'RE

                    TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU GOT TO LEARN ABOUT THE CHANGES.  I JUST WANTED TO

                    POINT OUT THAT, IN FACT, I SPONSORED THAT BILL.  SO A LOT OF THESE ISSUES

                                         40



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WERE DISCUSSED WHEN WE WENT THERE, AND THERE HAD BEEN CONCERN THAT

                    PERHAPS WE WERE GOING TOO FAR, THOUGH THE STATE BAR WAS SUPPORTIVE OF

                    -- OF THAT BILL AND REALLY HELPED -- EFFECTIVELY DRAFTED IT.  BUT EXPERIENCE

                    HAS SHOWN US THAT IT'S BECOME A TRAP FOR THE -- FOR THE UNWARY THAT WERE

                    HAVING POWERS OF ATTORNEY REJECTED, AND WE NOW HAVE PRINCIPALS WHO

                    ARE NOT -- DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO EXECUTE NEW POWERS OF ATTORNEY.

                    PARTICULARLY WHAT WAS RECOGNIZED BY THE FAILURE TO BE RECOGNIZED BY

                    THE BANKS I THINK IS A VERY SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE THAT WE MAKE IN THIS BILL.

                    BUT, YOU KNOW, I HEAR YOUR -- YOUR COMMENTS AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT

                    WE'RE GOING TO MONITOR AS WE GO FORWARD, AND IF THERE IS A NEED TO

                    MAKE ADDITIONAL CHANGES, WE (UNINTELLIGIBLE) THOSE CHANGES.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  YOU KNOW, I MEAN, LIKE YOU JUST

                    SAID, THE OLD FORM BEFORE YOU DID THIS WAS A -- WAS A FRONT-PAGE

                    LEGAL-SIZE DOCUMENT.  IT WAS FRONT AND BACK.  YOU KNOW, THIS TURNED IT

                    INTO AN 11, 12-PAGE DOCUMENT DEPENDING ON HOW MANY MODIFICATIONS,

                    YOU KNOW, WHICH -- WHICH WERE GOOD BECAUSE IT SPELLED EVERYTHING

                    OUT.  AND YOU KNOW, WHEN I DO IT AT LEAST WITH MY CLIENTS, YOU KNOW,

                    YOU GO THROUGH EACH SECTION; THIS SAYS THIS, THIS SAYS THIS.  AND I -- I

                    AGREE.  YOU KNOW, A LOT OF ATTORNEYS WHO MIGHT NOT -- WHO MIGHT NOT

                    DO -- DO A LOT OF THESE COULD HAVE MADE MISTAKES, YOU KNOW, AND I

                    BELIEVE YOU DO ADDRESS THOSE WITH THE -- WITH -- WITH SOME OF THE PARTS

                    OF THIS SECTION HERE.  I'M JUST MOSTLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE PRINCIPALS

                    BEING ABLE TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF WITHOUT HAVING THAT EXTRA

                    WITNESSING WITH THE TRANSFERRING OF ASSETS BECAUSE A LOT OF THE ELDERLY,

                    YOU KNOW, IT --- IT -- IT -- WHO THESE ARE FOR, THEY ONLY HAVE SO MUCH.

                                         41



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT THAT HAVING THAT EXTRA PROTECTION IS

                    SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE -- SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE.

                                 BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. WEINSTEIN.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  SURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ABINANTI.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THANK YOU MR. SPEAKER.

                    ASSEMBLYWOMAN WEINSTEIN, WOULD YOU YIELD?  MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD TO SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WEINSTEIN

                    YIELDS, MR. ABINANTI.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  YES.  MS. WEINSTEIN, I'M A LITTLE

                    CONFUSED BY THE DISCUSSION THAT JUST WAS -- WHICH WE JUST HAD.  WHEN

                    WE DISCUSSED THIS BILL IN COMMITTEE SEVERAL YEARS AGO, I, TOO, WAS VERY

                    CONCERNED ABOUT ALLOWING THE AGENT TO SIGN FOR THE PRINCIPAL.  BUT I'M

                    READING THE BILL NOW AND I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED.  I THINK WE HAVE A

                    QUESTION OF STATUTORY INTERPRETATION HERE.  I'M GOING TO PAGE 2, LINES 39

                    AND 40, AND IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE LANGUAGE HAS BEEN CHANGED TO SAY

                    THAT THE PERSON WHO IS GOING TO BE DESIGNATED AS THE AGENT CANNOT BE

                    THE PERSON WHO SIGNS THE PRINCIPAL'S NAME.  AM I MISREADING THIS?  I'M

                    TRYING TO FIGURE WHERE MY COLLEAGUES GOT THE INTERPRETATION THEY GOT.  I

                    THINK WE ARE -- I THINK THERE'S A QUESTION OF STATUTORY INTERPRETATION

                    HERE, AND PERHAPS THIS NEW BILL HAS ACTUALLY SOLVED THE PROBLEM THAT

                    MR. MONTESANO AND I RAISED TWO YEARS AGO.  AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE,

                    BECAUSE I HAVE THE VERY SAME CONCERN THAT HE AND MR. GARBARINO HAVE.

                                         42



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    BUT AS I'M READING THIS BILL I SEE LANGUAGE DIFFERENTLY.  SO CAN YOU HELP

                    US ON THIS, PLEASE?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.  YES.  YOU KNOW WHAT?  I --

                    I DID MISSPEAK WHEN I -- WHEN I SPOKE -- WHEN I TALKED WITH MR.

                    MONTESANO.  I -- I BELIEVE YOU ARE RIGHT.  I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THAT --

                    THAT LANGUAGE.  SORRY, YES.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  IF I MAY, I BELIEVE MR. MONTESANO

                    AND I IN COMMITTEE BOTH DISCUSSED THIS AT LENGTH, AND BOTH OF US RAISED

                    THIS AND SAID THIS IS -- THIS IS A NO-GO.  THIS IS -- THIS STOPS -- THIS STOPS

                    ANTI-PROGRESS.  AND I -- AND I -- I COMMEND YOU AND YOUR STAFF HAVING

                    -- IF I'M READING THIS CORRECTLY (UNINTELLIGIBLE) --

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  -- AND HAVING SOLVED THAT PROBLEM.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  WELL I'M LOOKING AT MY NOTES AND

                    I THINK I JUST RESPONDED TO MR. MONTESANO OFF -- OFF-THE-CUFF WITHOUT

                    LOOKING AT THE NOTES.  SO, YOU ARE CORRECT.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  AND I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM

                    ALSO IS THE SPONSOR'S MEMO DOES NOT HIGHLIGHT THE CHANGE.  THE

                    SPONSOR'S MEMO MAKES IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S THE SAME BILL THAT WE ORIGINALLY

                    HAD.  AND SO I COULD UNDERSTAND WHY MR. MONTESANO AND OTHERS WOULD

                    BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS NOT CORRECTED.  BUT IF -- BUT IF I'M READING THIS

                    CORRECTLY, THIS OBJECTION HAS BEEN -- IS -- IS NO LONGER THERE.  I CAN'T

                    COMMENT ON THE OTHER OBJECTIONS THEY'VE RAISED, BUT THIS ONE WAS ONE

                    THAT I WAS VERY CONCERNED ABOUT, AND I THINK YOU -- YOU'VE ADDRESSED

                    THE ISSUE SO I CAN NOW SUPPORT THE BILL.

                                         43



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR 216.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING

                    TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED

                    TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE VOTING NO ON THIS BILL.  IF YOU WOULD LIKE

                    TO VOTE AFFIRMATIVELY, PLEASE CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE RIGHT

                    AWAY.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  SHOULD MEMBERS DECIDE THEY WOULD NOT LIKE TO

                    VOTE FOR IT, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CALL OUR OFFICES AND WE WILL COUNT

                    YOUR VOTE ACCORDINGLY.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                         44



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  TO EXPLAIN MY

                    VOTE.  AS MY COLLEAGUES HAVE REMARKED, THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF THIS

                    BILL ALLOWED A PERSON TO SIGN A POWER OF ATTORNEY ON BEHALF OF

                    SOMEBODY ELSE TO APPOINT THEMSELVES AS THE AGENT FOR THE OTHER PERSON,

                    AUTHORIZE THE TRANSFER OF THE OTHER PERSON'S PROPERTY TO THEMSELVES,

                    WHICH WAS JUST A HORRIFIC, HORRIFIC BILL.  THIS BILL IS SLIGHTLY BETTER IN

                    THAT NOW WE CAN HAVE SOMEONE SIGN ON BEHALF OF THE PRINCIPAL,

                    APPOINTING THEIR FRIEND AS THE POWER OF ATTORNEY SO THAT THEIR FRIEND CAN

                    TRANSFER UP TO $5,000 BACK TO THEM.  LOOK, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A

                    POWER OF ATTORNEY IT'S VERY SIMPLE.  THE PRINCIPAL WHO'S GIVEN THE

                    POWER SHOULD SIGN IT.  THAT'S NOT A DIFFICULT CONCEPT.  AND WHEN YOU

                    ALLOW SOMEONE ELSE TO SIGN A POWER OF ATTORNEY TRANSFERRING AN

                    INDIVIDUAL'S POWER AWAY FROM THEM TO SOME THIRD-PARTY, IT IS AN

                    ABSOLUTE INVITATION FOR FRAUD.  AND THAT'S WHY I AND MANY OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING IT EVEN IN ITS CURRENT ITERATION.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE TO ASK IF YOU COULD RECORD MR. BARNWELL AND MR.

                    O'DONNELL IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                                         45



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05991-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 226, WEINSTEIN, SEAWRIGHT, ABINANTI, LUPARDO, SIMOTAS, TAYLOR,

                    STECK.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAW, IN RELATION TO ACTIONS

                    INVOLVING PUBLIC PETITION AND PARTICIPATION; AND TO AMEND THE CIVIL

                    PRACTICE LAW AND RULES, IN RELATION TO STAY OF PROCEEDINGS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.  THE

                    CONCERN THAT I AND MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THE BILL IS THAT IT

                    MANDATES THE PAYMENT OF COSTS AND ATTORNEY'S FEES ON A SLAPP LAWSUIT

                    WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTION OR GUIDANCE ON THE AMOUNT THAT CAN BE PAID.

                    WE OFTEN AUTHORIZE REASONABLE ATTORNEY'S FEES IN THE DISCRETION OF THE

                    COURT.  AND IN MANY OTHER CONTEXTS, PARTICULARLY DEALING WITH

                    GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS LIKE UNEMPLOYMENT OR WORKERS' COMP, THERE'S

                    RESTRICTIONS THAT HAS TO BE APPROVED AND THEY'RE VERY, VERY CAREFUL

                    ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF LEGAL FEES THEY AUTHORIZE.  ON CIVIL LAWSUITS, IF

                    YOU BRING AN ACTION FOR PERSONAL INJURY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THE

                    AMOUNT THAT CAN BE COLLECTED BY THE ATTORNEYS IS VERY TIGHTLY REGULATED

                    BY THE APPELLATE DIVISION.  SO THERE'S VERY SPECIFIC RESTRICTIONS AND

                    LIMITATIONS.  IF YOU REPRESENT AN ESTATE, AS THE ESTATE ATTORNEY YOU CAN

                    BE PAID ATTORNEY'S FEES.  AGAIN, ALL CAREFULLY REGULATED.  THIS REQUIRES --

                    IT DOESN'T ALLOW, BUT REQUIRES, IT DOESN'T SIMPLY ALLOW, BUT REQUIRES THE

                    PAYMENT OF ALL COSTS AND ATTORNEY'S FEES WITHOUT RESTRICTION, AND FOR

                                         46



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THAT REASON I AND MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL NOT BE VOTING IN SUPPORT

                    OF THIS LEGISLATION.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 226.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS.  IF THERE'S ANY

                    MEMBER OF THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE, PLEASE CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE RIGHT AWAY.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.  SO

                    NOTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS WILL BE A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  COLLEAGUES

                    CHOOSING TO VOTE OTHERWISE SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT OUR OFFICES AND

                    WE'D BE HAPPY TO SO RECORD YOUR VOTE.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, MA'AM.

                                         47



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING REPUBLICANS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE:  MR. NORRIS, MR. MONTESANO,

                    MR. PALUMBO, MS. BYRNES, MR. RA, MR. GARBARINO, MR. SMULLEN, MR.

                    REILLY, MR. BARCLAY, MR. MORINELLO.  THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06062, CALENDAR NO.

                    228, RYAN, GOTTFRIED, WRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO PROHIBITING THE EXCLUSION OF COVERAGE FOR LOSSES OR DAMAGES

                    CAUSED BY EXPOSURE TO LEAD-BASED PAINT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL ON THE

                    BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THIS BILL WOULD

                    REQUIRE LANDLORDS TO CARRY LIABILITY INSURANCE -- TO CARRY LIABILITY

                    INSURANCE THAT COVERS POTENTIAL LEAD POISONING AND TO REQUIRE INSURANCE

                    COMPANIES TO PROVIDE THAT COVERAGE.  IN THE PAST, IF YOU WERE BUYING

                    LIABILITY INSURANCE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES DID NOT COVER LEAD.  AND

                    THAT'S BEEN A REAL SERIOUS ISSUE.  WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE

                    SEEN A TREMENDOUS REDUCTION IN PROBLEMS WITH LEAD PAINT, IN LARGE PART

                                         48



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF PUBLIC EDUCATION AND A LOT

                    OF RENOVATIONS, AND THE NEWER PAINTS DON'T HAVE LEAD IN THEM.  THE

                    PROBLEM THAT -- JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF HOW SUCCESSFUL THE

                    REDUCTION OF LEAD HAS BEEN, FROM 2004 TO 2009 WE SAW AN 84 PERCENT

                    REDUCTION IN INSTANCES INVOLVING LEAD POISONING, WHICH IS VERY

                    POSITIVE.  AND THAT'S CONTINUED OVER THE LAST DECADE AS WELL.  AND OF

                    COURSE AS TIME GOES ON, THE INCIDENTS OF LEAD POISONING CONTINUES TO

                    DROP AS APARTMENTS ARE REPAINTED.  AND AS I MENTIONED, THE NEW PAINT

                    DOES NOT INCLUDE LEAD.  SO THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE INSURANCE COMPANIES

                    TO PROVIDE LEAD COVERAGE AND WOULD REQUIRE LANDLORDS TO BUY THAT

                    COVERAGE IF YOU CARRY LIABILITY INSURANCE.  UNFORTUNATELY, OR

                    FORTUNATELY, I GUESS, DEPENDING ON YOUR VIEW, THERE'S NO OBLIGATION BY

                    LANDLORDS TO BUY LIABILITY INSURANCE.  AND SO IF WE, AS THE STATE

                    LEGISLATURE, MANDATE LEAD COVERAGE, WE HAVE BEEN ADVISED BY THE

                    INSURANCE INDUSTRY THAT IT WILL RESULT IN AN INCREASE IN PREMIUMS

                    REFLECTING THE INCREASE IN LIABILITY THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE.

                    AND WHENEVER YOU HAVE AN INCREASE IN YOUR INSURANCE PREMIUMS, TWO

                    THINGS HAPPEN:  EITHER THE LANDLORD DROPS THE LIABILITY INSURANCE

                    BECAUSE IT'S NOT REQUIRED BY YOUR MORTGAGE - THEY ONLY REQUIRE PROPERTY

                    INSURANCE - SO THE LANDLORD DROPS THE INSURANCE BECAUSE IT'S TOO

                    EXPENSIVE; OR THE OTHER OPTION IS THE LANDLORD CONTINUES THE LIABILITY

                    INSURANCE AND TAKES THE INCREASED COST AND PASSES IT ON TO TENANTS.

                    AND THIS IS PARTICULARLY PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE THE TENANTS THAT WOULD

                    LIKELY GET THIS COVERAGE OR MIGHT NEED THAT COVERAGE ARE ONLY THOSE

                    TENANTS THAT ARE IN OLDER HOMES THAT HAVEN'T BEEN REPAINTED IN THE LAST

                                         49



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    15 OR 20 YEARS, AND THEY'RE TYPICALLY THE TENANTS WHO CAN AFFORD THE

                    LEAST, A RENT INCREASE.  AND SO IRONICALLY, THIS BILL WOULD INCREASE RENT

                    FOR LOWER-INCOME TENANTS WHO CAN BARELY AFFORD THE RENT NOW, OR RESULT

                    IN NO COVERAGE OF ANY KIND AS THE LIABILITY INSURANCE IS DROPPED.  AND

                    FOR THOSE REASONS, I AND MANY OF COLLEAGUES WILL BE OPPOSING THIS

                    LEGISLATION.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 228.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL, BUT IF THERE ARE MEMBERS

                    THAT WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT IT, PLEASE CONTACT THE MINORITY OFFICE RIGHT

                    AWAY.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                                         50



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS

                    REALLY GOOD PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  THOSE WHO DECIDE THAT THEY SHOULD

                    NOT VOTE IN FAVOR, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT OUR OFFICES AND WE WILL BE

                    PLEASED TO RECORD YOUR VOTE AS SUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. RYAN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. RYAN:  MR. SPEAKER, SPEAKER PRO TEM, MADAM

                    MAJORITY LEADER, THIS IS MOST LIKELY THE LAST BILL THAT I WILL DEBATE IN

                    THIS CHAMBER.  SO TO THE STAFF AT ALL THE LEVELS, THANK YOU FOR YOUR

                    PATIENCE.  THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK.  THANK YOU FOR DOING WHAT

                    YOU DO TO MAKE THIS HOUSE FUNCTION.  IT'S NOT EASY, BUT YOU FOLKS MAKE

                    IT LOOK EASY.  TO ALL MY COLLEAGUES, IT WAS AN HONOR AND PRIVILEGE TO

                    SERVE WITH EACH OF YOU, TO LEARN ABOUT THE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND

                    THE DIFFERENT REGIONS OF THE STATE.  WE HAVE A VAST AND WE HAVE A

                    DIVERSE STATE.  BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LEARNED FROM TALKING TO SO

                    MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES IS THAT WE HAVE MANY MORE SHARED

                    COMMONALITIES THAN WE HAVE GEOGRAPHIC DIFFERENCES.  TO MY FAMILY,

                    WHEN I STARTED HERE ALMOST NINE YEARS AGO I HAD TWO DAUGHTERS IN

                    JUNIOR HIGH.  NOW, SOMEHOW OR OTHER, I HAVE A COLLEGE GRADUATE AND AN

                    ENTERING SENIOR.  SO, BOY, DOES TIME FLY.  BUT THANK YOU FOR THE

                    SACRIFICES THAT YOU MADE IN ALLOWING ME TO TRAVEL TO ALBANY AND TO DO

                    THIS JOB.  SO I AM REALLY PROUD OF THE NINE YEARS THAT I HAVE SPENT IN THE

                    NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY, AND THE STEPS THAT WE HAVE TAKEN TOGETHER

                    TO MOVE OUR -- OUR STATE FORWARD.  IT WAS JUST AN HONOR AND A PRIVILEGE

                    TO PLAY A PART IN THIS GREAT EXPERIMENT CALLED AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

                                         51



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    BUT IT WAS A DISTINCT HONOR TO SERVE IN THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY,

                    THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  WELL SAID.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. RYAN.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  BEFORE I ANNOUNCE

                    OUR EXCEPTIONS TO THIS, I JUST WANTED TO EXTEND MY APPRECIATION TO

                    ASSEMBLYMEMBER RYAN, WHO HAS DONE A GREAT JOB.  CAME IN ON MY

                    CLASS, BROUGHT A LOT OF EXPERTISE, KNOWLEDGE, THOUGHTFULNESS AND HAS

                    DONE A GREAT JOB REPRESENTING HIS DISTRICT AND BEING PART OF OUR

                    ASSEMBLY HERE.  SO AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.

                                 ON CALENDAR NO. 128 WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING

                    REPUBLICAN MEMBERS VOTING YES:  MR. MONTESANO, MR. SCHMITT AND

                    MS. MALLIOTAKIS.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  SO NOTED.  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE HAVE

                    NO EXCEPTIONS, BUT WE DO ALSO WANT TO OFFER OUR CONGRATULATIONS TO MR.

                    RYAN ON THE SERVICE THAT HE PROVIDED HERE IN THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.  HE

                    DID A GREAT JOB HERE AND WE KNOW HE'LL DO GREAT JOB IN HIS NEXT VENTURE.

                    CONGRATULATIONS TO HIM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                         52



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE HAVE AN

                    OPPORTUNITY FOR THREE OF OUR DEBATE LIST BILLS TO GO ON CONSENT.  IF WE

                    COULD TAKE THOSE RIGHT QUICK BEFORE WE GO TO CALENDAR NO. 235.  SO I'M

                    GOING TO GO TO CALENDAR NO. [SIC] 162 BY MR. ABBATE; CALENDAR NO.

                    310, MR. MAGNARELLI; AND CALENDAR NO. 330 BY MS. JOYNER.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. SPEAKER, SHOULD I RESTATE THAT?  RULES NO. 162,

                    CALENDAR NO. 310 AND CALENDAR NO. 330.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  RULES REPORT NO. 162,

                    THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S04495-A, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 162, SENATOR MARTINEZ (A05819-A, ABBATE, JEAN-PIERRE,

                    CYMBROWITZ).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW AND

                    THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTOMOBILE TIRE INFLATION

                    MACHINES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    RULES REPORT -- WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 162.  THIS IS

                    A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                                         53



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08091-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 310, MAGNARELLI, RYAN, SIMOTAS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

                    PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO THE RESIDENTIAL-COMMERCIAL URBAN

                    EXEMPTION PROGRAM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON JANUARY

                    1ST, 2021.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 310.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02145, CALENDAR NO.

                    330, JOYNER, GOTTFRIED, SIMON, COOK, PERRY, ORTIZ, BICHOTTE, BARRON,

                    D'URSO, JAFFEE, COLTON, STECK, WEPRIN, WALKER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    NEW YORK CITY CIVIL COURT ACT, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE OFFICE OF

                    COURT ADMINISTRATION TO PROMULGATE CERTAIN HOUSING COURT DOCUMENTS

                                         54



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PROVIDED TO PARTIES IN THEIR NATIVE LANGUAGE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    JOYNER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 330.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ON THIS

                    PARTICULAR BILL MR. FITZPATRICK WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  SO NOTED.  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF WE COULD

                    RESTART OUR DEBATE AGENDA AGAIN, WE'RE GOING RIGHT TO

                    PREVIOUSLY-ANNOUNCED CALENDAR NO. 235 BY MS. WILLIAMS.  FOLLOWING

                    THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO TO CALENDAR NO. 300 BY MS. FRONTUS.  AND THEN

                                         55



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    CALENDAR NO. 237 BY MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES; CALENDAR NO. 244, MS.

                    ROZIC; AND CALENDAR NO. 245, MS. WALLACE.  IN THAT ORDER, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06370, CALENDAR NO.

                    235, WILLIAMS, ARROYO, D'URSO, SIMON, M.G. MILLER, CRUZ.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY ACTIONS AND PROCEEDINGS LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE DEFINITION OF "TENANT" FOR PURPOSES OF MORTGAGE FORECLOSURES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. WILLIAMS.

                                 MS. WILLIAMS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS

                    BILL, A.6370, EXPANDS THE DEFINITION OF TENANT FOR THE PURPOSE OF

                    REQUIRED NOTICE HISTORY IN MORTGAGE FORECLOSURE ACTION.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MS. WALSH ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THAT

                    EXPLANATION.  YES, SO CURRENTLY UNDER THE RPAPL 1305, THE -- THE

                    DEFINITION OF A TENANT IS A PERSON WHO AT THE TIME OF THE NOTICE OF INTENT

                    TO FORECLOSE IS ISSUED APPEARS AS A LESSEE ON A LEASE FOR RESIDENTIAL REAL

                    PROPERTY OR IS A PARTY TO AN ORAL CONTRACT REQUIRING THE PERSON TO PAY

                    RENT TO THE MORTGAGOR OR THE MORTGAGOR'S REPRESENTATIVE.  THIS BILL

                    AMENDS THAT SECTION, 1305, BY ELIMINATING THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE

                    LANDLORD-TENANT RELATIONSHIP BE ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE MORTGAGEE OR

                                         56



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    LOAN SERVICING AGENT ISSUES THE NOTICE OF INTENT TO FORECLOSE ON THE

                    RESIDENTIAL REAL PROPERTY.  SO BY AMENDING THE TIMEFRAME FOR WHEN THE

                    TENANT RELATIONSHIP IS ESTABLISHED, THE BILL PROTECTS TENANTS WHO ENTER

                    LEASES AFTER THE COMMENCEMENT OF A FORECLOSURE ACTION WHO UNDER THE

                    CURRENT LAW WOULD NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO REMAIN ON THE PROPERTY OR

                    IN THE PROPERTY.  AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THE REASON FOR THE LEGISLATION,

                    FOR -- TO PROTECT THE TENANTS WHO UNKNOWINGLY ENTER INTO A LEASE FOR A

                    PROPERTY THAT'S ALREADY SUBJECT TO THE FORECLOSURE ACTION.  AND I DO

                    THINK THAT THAT'S A VERY LEGITIMATE DESIRE TO TRY TO PROTECT THOSE TENANTS.

                    THE DIFFICULTY THAT I HAVE WITH BILL AND SOME MY COLLEAGUES HAVE WITH

                    THE BILL IS THAT THIS BILL WILL LIKELY LENGTHEN NEW YORK'S FORECLOSURE

                    PROCESS WHICH IS ALREADY THE FOURTH-SLOWEST IN THE COUNTRY.  IT TAKES ON

                    AVERAGE TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS TO COMPLETE AN AVERAGE FORECLOSURE

                    ACTION.  SO, BY ALLOWING TENANTS TO LIVE OUT THEIR LEASE ON THE PROPERTY

                    THAT'S BEEN FORECLOSED, THE BILL WILL CREATE A SITUATION WHERE A

                    FORECLOSURE IS COMPLETE, YET THE PROPERTY IS STILL ENCUMBERED BY A

                    HOLDOVER TENANT.  THIS WILL ONLY SERVE TO EXACERBATE THE CURRENT ISSUES

                    OF MAINTAINING HOMES SUBJECT TO FORECLOSURE AND WILL ULTIMATELY

                    LENGTHEN NEW YORK'S FORECLOSURE PROCESS EVEN MORE.  AND SO FOR THOSE

                    REASONS, WHEN THIS BILL LAST CAME UP FOR A VOTE ON THE CALENDAR IN 2018

                    WE HAD A NUMBER OF OUR COLLEAGUES VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE, AS I WILL BE.

                    BUT I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR YOUR EFFORTS, AND THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST.

                                         57



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 235.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL.  AND

                    SHOULD ANY MEMBER OF OUR CONFERENCE WISH TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE,

                    THEY SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE ASAP.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 AND MRS. COOK.

                                 MRS. COOK:  YES.  THIS WILL BE A MAJORITY VOTE.

                    ANYONE WISHING TO VOTE DIFFERENT CAN CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S

                    OFFICE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MAJORITY IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MRS. COOK:  A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07970, CALENDAR NO.

                    300, FRONTUS, BUCHWALD.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE FAMILY COURT ACT, IN

                                         58



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    RELATION TO VIDEO RECORDING OF INTERROGATIONS OF JUVENILES IN JUVENILE

                    DELINQUENCY PROCEEDINGS IN FAMILY COURT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AN EXPLANATION, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    FRONTUS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED, MS. FRONTUS.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL,

                    A.7970, WOULD REQUIRE VIDEO RECORDING OF YOUTH INTERROGATIONS BY

                    POLICE OR PEACE OFFICERS WHEN SUCH INTERROGATIONS TAKE PLACE IN A

                    DESIGNATED FACILITY APPROVED FOR THE QUESTIONING OF SUCH YOUTH.  SUCH

                    VIDEO REPORTING PROTECTS THE RIGHTS OF YOUTH, PRODUCES AN OBJECTIVE AND

                    RELIABLE RECORD, AND INCREASES PUBLIC CONFIDENCE IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU.  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR

                    A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  GLADLY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  WONDERFUL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO, MS. FRONTUS, I'D LIKE YOU TO, IF YOU

                    WOULD, PLEASE CONTRAST THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WITH WHAT WE PASSED

                    EARLIER THIS YEAR IN THE BUDGET REGARDING THE VIDEOTAPING OF JUVENILES.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  CERTAINLY.  AS IT IS NOW, THE CURRENT

                    LAW ONLY REQUIRES RECORDING OF JUVENILE DELINQUENTS FOR CERTAIN CRIMES.

                    SPECIFICALLY, LET'S SEE, THAT INCLUDES ANY YOUTH THAT WERE CHARGED WITH

                                         59



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SELECT CRIMES SUCH AS CLASS A-1 FELONIES, PREDATORY SEX OFFENSES AND

                    ANY CLASS E VIOLENT FELONIES, HOMICIDES OR SEX OFFENSES.  SO WHAT THIS

                    BILL WOULD DO IS IT WOULD MAKE IT REGARDLESS OF THE CRIME, AND EXPAND

                    IT TO ALL YOUTH JUVENILE DELINQUENTS THAT ARE COMING IN FOR QUESTIONING.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE

                    -- THE KIND OF ROOM THAT THE VIDEOTAPED INTERROGATION NEEDS TO TAKE

                    PLACE IN.  IT NEEDS -- IS IT TRUE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE OCA APPROVED?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  IT DOES.  IT DOES NEED TO BE OCA

                    APPROVED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHAT

                    OTHER COMPONENTS OF THE KIND OF ROOM THAT OCA APPROVES IN THIS

                    INSTANCE?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  WE DON'T HAVE EXACT VERBIAGE FROM

                    OCA BUT WE IMAGINE THAT IT'S PRETTY STANDARD.  A ROOM THAT IS FIT,

                    APPROPRIATE, COMFORTABLE, NON-THREATENING FOR THE YOUTH THAT'S BEEN

                    BEING QUESTIONED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  VERY GOOD.  NOW WITH THIS

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION ARE THERE ANY EXCEPTIONS?  I KNOW THAT AS FAR AS THE

                    -- THE NUMERATED, YOU KNOW, CHARGES THAT EVERYTHING -- EVERY JUVENILE

                    WOULD BE WHERE THERE'S AN INTERROGATION REGARDLESS OF CRIME UNDER THIS

                    -- THIS LEGISLATION, BUT ARE THERE ANY EXCEPTIONS FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE

                    MALFUNCTIONING EQUIPMENT OR MAYBE -- MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE THE

                    EQUIPMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  THERE IS LANGUAGE INCLUDED IN THE

                    BILL.  IT'S THE GOOD CAUSE EXEMPTIONS.  YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.  IT

                                         60



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    DOES MAKE PROVISIONS IN THE EVENT THAT A CAMERA IS NOT WORKING OR ONE

                    IS NOT AVAILABLE.  FOR EXAMPLE, IF THERE'S ONLY ONE CAMERA ON THE

                    PREMISES AND IT IS IN USE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND COULD YOU DIRECT ME TO THAT PART

                    OF THE BILL, PLEASE?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  CERTAINLY IT WOULDN'T FORBID LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT IN QUESTION FROM USING THEIR OWN CAMERA IF THEY HAD

                    SOMETHING ON THEIR PERSON, LIKE, YOU KNOW, A CELL PHONE.  BUT THE

                    LANGUAGE IS INCLUDED FOR A GOOD CAUSE EXEMPTION.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  AND COULD YOU JUST DIRECT ME

                    TO THAT PART OF THE BILL, PLEASE?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  SURE.  SO, LINES 10-11 IN PARAGRAPH

                    (B).

                                 MS. WALSH:  PARAGRAPH (B).

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  LINES 10 THROUGH 11 WHICH

                    REFERENCE PARAGRAPH (B).

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT.

                    WAS THERE ANY -- HAS THERE BEEN ANY KIND OF FEEDBACK THAT HAS BEEN

                    RECEIVED REGARDING THE EARLIER LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED IN THE BUDGET

                    AS FAR AS HOW THINGS ARE WORKING OUT?  HAS IT -- IS IT IN EFFECT YET, WHAT

                    HAD BEEN PASSED BACK IN -- EARLIER THIS YEAR?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  SO, RECORDING EXISTS NOW.  CERTAINLY

                    BEFORE THE BUDGET, INDEED, AFTER THE BUDGET.  THIS IS AN EXPANSION OF ALL

                    VIDEO RECORDINGS, AND I CAN CERTAINLY SAY A LITTLE BIT MORE IN TERMS OF

                    WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE HISTORICALLY, AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD A

                                         61



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    NUMBER OF SITUATIONS WITH FALSE CONFESSIONS.  THIS PROCESS WOULD

                    ENSURE THE TRANSPARENCY AND INTEGRITY OF THE VIDEO RECORDING PROCESS

                    WHEN SPEAKING TO JUVENILES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT EVEN PRIOR TO THIS

                    YEAR'S BUDGET THERE WAS ALREADY JUVENILE INTERROGATIONS BEING

                    VIDEOTAPED IN THE --

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  INDEED.  THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST

                    THINGS I SAID.  BUT THIS IS EXPANDING IT.  IT WAS ONLY REQUIRED FOR CERTAIN

                    CRIMES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  RIGHT.  SO BUT WHAT I -- I GUESS WHAT I

                    WAS TRYING TO GET AT WAS DURING THE BUDGET, THAT PIECE OF LEGISLATION

                    DIDN'T JUST ESTABLISH THE RULES FOR CONDUCTING INTERROGATION OF JUVENILES.

                    THAT PREDATED THE -- THE BUDGET PROCESS THIS YEAR.  IT WAS ALREADY IN

                    PLACE.  SO WHAT DID THE -- WHAT DID THE LEGISLATION THAT PASSED DURING

                    THE BUDGET DO THAT WAS DIFFERENT?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  SO REALLY I THINK YOU MIGHT BE

                    TALKING ABOUT SOME LAWS THAT WERE PASSED IN 2017.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  WHICH IS WHERE WE HAVE THE CURRENT

                    PRECEDENCE NOW --

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  -- FOR RECORDING FOR CERTAIN CRIMES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO UNDER THIS BILL, THEN, IF YOU

                    HAVE A JUVENILE WHO'S CHARGED AND THE INTERROGATION TAKES PLACE AND IS,

                    FOR WHATEVER REASON, NOT VIDEOTAPED, WHETHER IT'S -- THERE'S

                                         62



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    MALFUNCTIONING EQUIPMENT OR THERE'S SOME OTHER GOOD CAUSE, WHAT -- IS

                    THERE -- IS THERE ANY PENALTY FOR THE FAILURE TO HAVE RECORDED THAT?

                    WOULD IT -- WOULD AN INTERROGATION BE ADMISSIBLE OR A CONFESSION BE

                    ADMISSIBLE IF IT WAS NOT VIDEOTAPED, UNDER YOUR BILL?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  IF IT -- IF THERE'S NOT A VIDEO

                    RECORDING, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY AND ABSOLUTELY MEAN THAT ANYTHING

                    THAT'S SAID BY THE JUVENILE WOULD NOT BE TAKEN -- WOULD NOT BE

                    CONSIDERED AN ADMISSION.  IT WOULD BE BASED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO IT COULD BE -- IT COULD BE

                    ADMISSIBLE THAT --

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  IT CERTAINLY COULD BE.  THEY WOULD

                    LOOK AT A NUMBER OF THINGS, LIKE ARE THE PARENTS PRESENT, WHERE WAS IT

                    TAKEN, WHERE WAS THE INTERROGATION TAKING PLACE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  VERY GOOD.  THANK

                    YOU SO MUCH, MS. FRONTUS.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  SURE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  OF COURSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  ON THE BILL, MS.

                    WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU.  SO, THIS IS QUITE AN

                    EXPANSION FROM THE CURRENT STATE OF OUR LAW.  THE -- BY HAVING IT

                    INCLUDE ALL INTERROGATIONS REGARDLESS -- OF JUVENILES REGARDLESS OF THE

                    SEVERITY OF THE CRIME.  THERE -- THERE IS SOME CONCERN BY ORGANIZATIONS,

                    PARTICULARLY THE NEW YORK STATE SHERIFFS ASSOCIATION.  AND SO I WOULD

                                         63



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    JUST LIKE TO TRY TO KIND OF SUMMARIZE WHAT THEIR CONCERNS ARE FOR MY

                    COLLEAGUES.  THE SHERIFFS ASSOCIATION SAYS THAT THEY'RE GENERALLY

                    SUPPORTIVE OF THE IDEA OF VIDEO RECORDING INTERROGATIONS, BUT THAT THIS

                    LEGISLATION IS FAR LESS FLEXIBLE THAN WHAT THE CURRENT STATE OF LAW WAS

                    AND IT'S AN ABSOLUTE MANDATE THAT ALL INTERROGATIONS OF JUVENILE

                    DELINQUENTS THAT TAKE PLACE IN INTERVIEW ROOMS APPROVED FOR THE

                    QUESTIONING OF JUVENILES BY OCA BE RECORDED.  ONE OF THE CONCERNS IS

                    THAT THE -- THE KIND OF ROOM THAT OCA MIGHT APPROVE IS GENERALLY

                    GOING TO HAVE A FEEL OF MORE LIKE AN OFFICE OR SOMETHING THAT'S

                    FRIENDLIER THAN, LIKE, A -- LIKE A BOOKING AREA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

                    AND THAT -- BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT THE ROOM THAT OCA MIGHT

                    APPROVE MIGHT NOT BE THE PLACE WHERE A PARTICULAR PRECINCT OR LOCATION

                    HAS THE VIDEO EQUIPMENT.  SO IT MAY CREATE ADDITIONAL COSTS FOR LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT TO HAVE TO SET UP A SEPARATE ROOM THAT WOULD BE AN

                    OCA-APPROVED ROOM FOR A JUVENILE INTERROGATION.  AND THE OTHER

                    POINT, REALLY, THAT THEY'RE MAKING IS THAT WE -- WE REALLY SHOULD LET THE

                    CURRENT LAW KIND OF PROCEED AS IT HAS BEEN FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AND GET

                    SOME FEEDBACK ABOUT HOW THAT'S WORKING BEFORE WE GO AHEAD AND

                    CHANGE IT AGAIN TO EXPAND IT TO THIS EXTENT.

                                 SO FOR THOSE REASONS, SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES MAY

                    HAVE SOME ISSUES WITH THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  AND THE

                    OTHER THING -- THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD LIKE TO -- TO MENTION IS THAT

                    THE -- THE GOOD FAITH EXEMPTIONS TO THE RECORDING REQUIREMENT, THERE

                    WERE CONCERNS RAISED ABOUT THAT.  AND I DO THINK, THOUGH, THAT THE

                    SPONSOR ADDRESSED THAT IN HER COMMENTS, SO I WON'T, YOU KNOW, BELABOR

                                         64



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THAT.  BUT I THINK IT'S GOOD, THE IDEA THAT THERE WOULD BE -- IF THERE IS

                    MALFUNCTIONING EQUIPMENT OR THERE WAS JUST SOME PROBLEM THAT THAT

                    WOULD NOT NECESSARILY RENDER ANY KIND OF INTERROGATION COMPLETELY

                    INADMISSIBLE, THAT THERE WOULD BE FACTORS THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED BY

                    THE COURT CONSIDERING THE MATTER.

                                 SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    WALSH.

                                 MR. BARRON.

                                 MR. BARRON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  OBVIOUSLY

                    SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES UP IN HERE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON IN

                    OUR BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES WITH OUR YOUTH.  AND I NEED ONLY

                    TO POINT TO THE CENTRAL PARK JOGGER CASE WHERE INNOCENT YOUNG MEN

                    WERE INTEGREGATED -- INTERROGATED BY POLICE FOR HOURS.  SOME BEFORE

                    THEIR PARENTS CAME.  SOME WHILE THEIR PARENTS WERE SITTING THERE.  THEY

                    WERE THREATENING THEM, THEY WERE LYING TO THEM, SAYING THAT THE OTHER

                    YOUNG MAN TOLD ON THEM.  AND THEY COERCED FALSE CONFESSIONS FROM

                    THEM, EVEN WHEN THEY KNEW THAT SOME OF THE CONFESSIONS WAS NOT --

                    WERE NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE FORENSIC EVIDENCE.  NONE OF THEM HAD NO

                    SEMEN ON -- NO LEAVES, NOTHING LIKE THAT.  BUT THEY COERCED A

                    CONFESSION OUT OF THESE YOUNGSTERS, ONLY TO FIND OUT YEARS LATER AFTER

                    THEY RUINED THEIR LIVES, JUST ABOUT, TO FIND OUT THAT THEY WERE INNOCENT.

                    THAT DNA WAS FOUND ON SOMEONE WHO WAS IN JAIL ALREADY AND

                    CONFESSED TO THE CRIME.  THIS INTERROGATIVE -- INTERROGATION PROCESS

                    HAPPENS ON A REGULAR.  SO WHILE YOU CAN SAY INTELLECTUALLY, LET'S JUST

                                         65



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WAIT AND SEE HOW THIS WORKS, WHILE YOU'RE WAITING TO SEE, OUR YOUNG

                    PEOPLE ARE GOING TO JAIL, ARE BEING FORCED INTO CONFESSIONS, CRIMES THAT

                    THEY DID NOT COMMIT.  THE INNOCENCE PROJECT HAS LOT OF THAT WITH YOUTH

                    AND ADULTS.  I HAD ANOTHER CASE IN THE CHANEL LEWIS CASE, OF THE YOUNG

                    LADY WHO WAS KILLED ON HOWARD BEACH.  THEY INTERROGATED HIM FOR

                    HOURS TILL HE FINALLY SAID WHAT THEY HAD WRITTEN DOWN AND TOLD HIM TO

                    SAY.  AND THEN THEY CAME UP WITH ALL KINDS OF STUFF.  WE EVEN FOUND

                    THAT THERE'S WAYS THAT THEY CAN TAMPER WITH DNA EVIDENCE SO THAT IT'S

                    NOT, YOU KNOW, LIKE, JUST PERFECTLY DONE SO THAT YOU CANNOT DENY DNA

                    EVIDENCE.  THEY EVEN HAVE WAYS TO MANIPULATE THAT.  SO THIS BILL

                    MAINLY EXPANDS IT AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, LIKE, ANY YOUNGSTER BROUGHT IN

                    THERE -- AND THEY GOT TO REALLY VIDEO THEM FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE

                    END.  IN THE CENTRAL PARK JOGGER CASE THEY DIDN'T VIDEO ALL OF IT UNTIL

                    THEY FINALLY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED THEM TO SAY, THEN THEY TURNED THE

                    CAMERAS ON.  IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT ROOM THEY'RE IN IF YOU'RE GOING TO

                    COERCE THEM AND NOT LET THEM EAT AND -- AND SCARE THEM AND NOT THEM

                    SEE THEIR PARENTS FOR HOURS, AND THEN TELL THEIR PARENTS THAT THEY'RE GOING

                    TO GO TO JAIL FOR LIFE.  IF THEY DON'T DO THIS, WE CAN GIVE THEM A BREAK.

                    SO YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR COMMUNITIES WITH THESE

                    POLICE AND HOW THEY INTERROGATE OUR YOUTH AND HOW THEY GO FISHING

                    SOMETIMES WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THESE YOUNGSTERS HAD

                    ANYTHING TO DO WITH A MURDER, FOR INSTANCE, IN A PARTICULAR COMMUNITY.

                    AND THEY'LL PICK THEM UP FOR LOITERING AND SAY, WE KNOW THAT YOU WERE

                    THE ONE WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THAT KILLING, THEN, NO, I WASN'T.  AND THEY

                    SAY, YEAH, BUT ALL YOUR FRIENDS TOLD US IT WAS YOU, AND, YOU KNOW, THEY

                                         66



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    HAVE WAYS OF COERCING FALSE CONFESSIONS.  IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.  SO

                    THIS BILL SAYS NO, ANY CRIME WITH A YOUNGSTER.  AND WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID

                    OF?  WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?  WHAT YOU TRYING TO HIDE THAT YOU CAN'T

                    HAVE THIS KIND OF TRANSPARENCY WHEN IT COMES TO OUR YOUTH WHO ARE

                    BEING FALSELY ACCUSED AND GOING TO JAIL AS WE SPEAK?  IT HAPPENS EVERY

                    DAY IN OUR COMMUNITY.  WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO WAIT TO SEE WHAT

                    HAPPENS.  WHY WAIT WHEN YOU CAN DO IT NOW?

                                 I SUPPORT THIS BILL AND I SUGGEST THAT ALL MY COLLEAGUES

                    SUPPORT IT.  AND THOSE OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE NO CLUE AS WHAT'S

                    GOING ON IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, YOU SHOULD GO TO SOME POLICE

                    PRECINCTS AND TAKE A TRIP IN THERE AND JUST -- MATTER OF FACT, PUT ON A

                    DISGUISE.  DON'T LET THEM KNOW WHO YOU ARE.  YOU WILL SEE IT LIKE I'VE

                    SEEN IT MANY, MANY TIMES.  THIS IS A GOOD BILL AND I SUGGEST THAT WE

                    SUPPORT IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    BARRON.

                                 MR. REILLY.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  SHE WILL YIELD, YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MS. FRONTUS.  SO, I KNOW

                    THAT WE TOUCHED ON A LITTLE BIT -- MY COLLEAGUE EARLIER MENTIONED ABOUT

                                         67



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE DESIGNATED ROOM AND WHERE THE CAMERA WOULD BE SET UP.  ARE THERE

                    ANY FUNDS ALLOCATED FOR POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND PRECINCTS THROUGHOUT

                    THE STATE TO IMPLEMENT THIS WITH A PORTABLE CAMERA IF THE NEED BE?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  THERE ARE -- THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR

                    THAT QUESTION.  IN FACT, WE KNOW THAT SINCE 2011 THE GOVERNOR

                    ANNOUNCED THAT THE STATE OF NEW YORK HAS INVESTED SOME $4.15

                    MILLION FOR POLICE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE STATE TO PURCHASE AND INSTALL

                    RECORDING EQUIPMENT.  OVER THE YEARS THE DEPARTMENTS HAVE BEEN

                    RECEIVING VIDEO EQUIPMENT, SO MOST OF OUR STATIONS ARE EQUIPPED WITH

                    THE CAMERAS SO THAT THEY CAN DO THE VIDEO RECORDING.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU.  SO TAKE NEW YORK CITY,

                    FOR INSTANCE.  THERE'S APPROXIMATELY 10- TO 14,000 JUVENILES ARRESTED

                    EACH YEAR FOR MINOR INFRACTIONS.  IF THEY ARE GOING TO -- SO WOULD THIS

                    BILL COVER PEDIGREE INFORMATION, NORMAL ARREST PROCESSING?  JUST FOR

                    CLARIFICATION.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  SO -- AND THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

                    FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, THIS BILL IS TALKING ABOUT JUVENILE

                    DELINQUENTS, WHICH I BELIEVE IS A DCJS --

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 -- BUT IT'S -- INDEED, INDEED.  SO GOING BACK TO YOUR

                    QUESTION AND GOING BACK TO WHAT I WAS SAYING, IT IS ONLY REFERRING TO

                    JUVENILE DELINQUENTS, PER SE, WHICH IS A COMBINATION OF THE YOUNG

                    PERSON'S AGE AND THE CRIME THAT THEY COMMITTED ALLEGEDLY.  THE REASON

                    WHY THEY'RE BEING BROUGHT IN.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  SO SAY A 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLD

                                         68



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THAT IS ARRESTED FOR PETTY LARCENY, WOULD THAT -- WOULD THAT CONSTITUTE

                    THE -- IF THEY'RE DOING A PEDIGREE, INFORMATION ON THAT VIOLATION OF THE

                    PENAL LAW THAT WILL MOST LIKELY BE PROSECUTED IN FAMILY COURT, WOULD

                    THAT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A VIDEOTAPE WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT

                    PEDIGREE INFORMATION?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  IT'S, FRANKLY, ANYBODY WHO CAN BE

                    CONVICTED AS A JUVENILE DELINQUENT, THIS WOULD COME INTO PLAY.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO WHEN -- WHEN YOU'RE -- WHEN A

                    POLICE OFFICER IS PROCESSING THE ARREST IN THE JUVENILE ROOM AND THEY ARE

                    FILLING OUT THE ONLINE BOOKING SHEET, MAYBE THE FAMILY COURT

                    PAPERWORK, WHEN THEY'RE ASKING THEM SPECIFIC QUESTIONS AS TO THE

                    ARREST OF THEIR PEDIGREE, WOULD THAT HAVE TO BE RECORDED?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DURING THE

                    ARREST, BEFORE THE STATION?

                                 MR. REILLY:  NO, AT THE STATION HOUSE IN THE --  IN

                    THE ROOM -- THE JUVENILE ROOM DESIGNATED BY OCA WHILE THEY'RE --

                    WHILE THEY ARE CONDUCTING THE ARREST PAPERWORK --

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  -- AND THEY'RE SPEAKING TO THE

                    INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS ARRESTED, THE JUVENILE, WOULD -- WOULD THAT HAVE TO

                    BE RECORDED IN THAT ROOM?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  IT'S FROM MIRANDA RIGHTS THROUGHOUT

                    THE INTERROGATION ITSELF.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  SO -- SO WOULD PEDIGREE

                    INFORMATION TO FILL OUT THE ONLINE BOOKING SHEET, WHICH IS THE ARREST

                                         69



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PROCESSING PAPERWORK, WOULD THAT BE RECORDED?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  THERE'S NO REASON WHY THAT WOULD

                    BE RECORDED --

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.

                                 MS. FRONTUS: -- UNDER -- UNDER THESE GUIDELINES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  SO, UNDER -- I

                    KNOW WE SPOKE ABOUT A LITTLE BIT -- YOU SPOKE A LITTLE BIT BEFORE WITH

                    MY COLLEAGUE ABOUT THE GOOD CAUSE EXCEPTIONS --

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  -- SO EXCUSE ME, ONE SECOND.  SORRY.

                    WITH THE GOOD CAUSE EXCEPTION, THE -- UNDER 60.45 OF THE CPL, THE -- IF

                    -- IF AN INDIVIDUAL, A YOUTH, AND THEIR -- A JUVENILE AND THEIR PARENT ARE

                    PRESENT AND THEY'RE WILLING TO TALK TO THE OFFICER OR THE INVESTIGATOR BUT

                    THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE RECORDED, IS THERE A PROVISION THAT WILL ALLOW

                    THEM IN THIS LAW, IN THIS BILL, TO MOVE FORWARD AND -- AND GIVE

                    PERMISSION TO SPEAK WITHOUT BEING RECORDED?

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  SO THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THE

                    YOUTH WHO IS UNDER INTERROGATION SAYS THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE

                    RECORDED?

                                 MR. REILLY:  AND THEIR PARENT AS WELL, OR THE

                    GUARDIAN.  IF THEY ARE WILLING TO SPEAK TO THE OFFICERS OR INVESTIGATORS

                    BUT THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE RECORDED, IS THAT PERMISSIBLE UNDER THIS BILL?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  YES, THE PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT TO

                    WAIVE.

                                         70



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. REILLY:  TO WAIVE THE RECORDING.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  SO THEY'RE -- SO ONCE IT'S

                    TRANSFERRED TO FAMILY COURT FOR THE PROCEEDINGS, WILL IT -- WILL THAT

                    IMPACT THE VALIDITY OF WHATEVER IS DISCUSSED IN THAT INTERROGATION THAT'S

                    NOT RECORDED?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  NO, WE SAID EARLIER THAT IT WOULDN'T

                    BE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  AND THAT'S UNDER THE GOOD CAUSE

                    EXCEPTION?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  IT'S A GOOD CAUSE EXEMPTION AND IT

                    WOULD ALSO BE UP TO THE JUDGE.  BUT WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO

                    BE POSSIBLE IN EVERY INSTANCE, SO IT DOESN'T INVALIDATE WHAT'S SAID

                    WITHOUT THE VIDEO RECORDING.  BUT THE PREFERENCE IS FOR AS MANY VIDEO

                    RECORDINGS AS POSSIBLE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  IS THERE -- IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE BILL

                    THAT WILL DELINEATE HOW THAT CAN BE RECORDED?  I KNOW DCJS PUT OUT

                    SOME GUIDANCE UNDER THE 60.45.  BUT IS THERE ANY -- ANYTHING THAT WE

                    CAN SPECIFICALLY HAVE IN THIS BILL TO ENSURE THAT THAT'S DOCUMENTED?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  TO ENSURE WHAT NOW?  I'M SORRY.

                                 MR. REILLY:  TO ENSURE THAT THE DOCUMENT -- THAT

                    IT'S DOCUMENTED OR A PROTOCOL IN PLACE WHERE THE PARENT, THE GUARDIAN

                    AND THE JUVENILE CAN WAIVE THAT RECORDING.  OR WOULD THAT FALL -- WOULD

                    THAT FALL UNDER THE GUIDANCE UNDER THE GOOD CAUSE?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  YES, IT WOULD BE.  AND IT'S ALREADY

                                         71



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ESTABLISHED BY DCJS.  IT'S IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL, LINES 10 AND 11,

                    WHAT YOU'RE ASKING.

                                 MR. REILLY:  LINES 10 AND 11?  LET ME TAKE A LOOK.

                    SO THAT -- JUST UNDER SECTION -- PARAGRAPH (E) OF 60.45 YOU'RE SAYING?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  IT'S -- YES, MAKING REFERENCE TO

                    PARAGRAPH (E).

                                 MR. REILLY:  FAIR ENOUGH.  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                    THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.  I APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FRONTUS, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FRONTUS YIELDS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU SO MUCH.  JUST A

                    COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS.  I SEE IN THE BILL THAT THIS WOULD TAKE EFFECT

                    AFTER NOVEMBER 1.  IT WOULD BE NOVEMBER 1 OF NEXT YEAR, CORRECT?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO I -- I WOULD ANTICIPATE

                    WHEN WE GO THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS THIS COMING SPRING, EARLY

                    SPRING, WILL THERE -- WILL THERE BE ANY FUNDING IN THERE FOR -- LET ME GO

                    BACK TO ANOTHER QUESTION FIRST.  WHAT DO YOU -- HOW DO YOU SEE ONE OF

                    THESE ROOMS, INTERROGATING ROOMS, LOOKING LIKE FOR THESE YOUNG

                                         72



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PEOPLE?  IS IT SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WOULD BE IN A JAIL RIGHT

                    NOW OR IN A BOOKING ROOM OR JUST EXACTLY THE SAME THAT'S THERE?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  NO.  I HAVE TO BE HONEST.  I MEAN,

                    THE FOCUS -- AS ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES SAID EARLIER, THE FOCUS REALLY HASN'T

                    BEEN ON THE ROOM OR THE NATURE OF THE ROOM.  IT'S REALLY THE ESSENCE AND

                    THE SPIRIT OF THE BILL, WHICH IS EXPANDING VIDEO RECORDING OF JUVENILES

                    TO PREVENT ANY ABUSE OF POWER, ANY FALSE CONFESSIONS, ANY WRONGFUL

                    CONVICTIONS, WHICH HAS BEEN A PROBLEM HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                    THE ROOM -- THE STANDARDS FOR THE ROOM ARE SET BY ENTITIES SUCH AS

                    OCA, DCJS.  SO, STANDARD ROOMS SUCH AS THE ONES THAT WE'RE USING

                    NOW, IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT THAT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  BECAUSE I'M JUST

                    THINKING ABOUT SOME OF OUR SMALLER MUNICIPALITIES THAT PROBABLY DON'T

                    HAVE THE EXACT SAME ROOM THAT'S THERE, OR AS MY FORMER COLLEAGUE SAID,

                    WAS WONDERING ABOUT THE -- THE COST OF THE VIDEO EQUIPMENT AND --

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  SURE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THAT

                    BECAUSE I JUST DON'T ALWAYS LIKE TO SHIP THE MONEY, THE COST BACK TO OUR

                    LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES.  I JUST WANT TO BE SURE THAT WE HAVE FUNDING IN

                    THERE AND THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO USE THAT FUNDING TO KEEP OUR TAXES

                    DOWN BACK HOME.  AND IF WE'RE GOING TO SEND A -- IF WE'RE GOING TO

                    SEND THIS DOWN FROM THE STATE, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE FUNDING

                    ATTACHED TO IT.  IF THERE'S NOT, I REALLY DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT IT UNLESS

                    THERE IS.  BUT I THINK IT'S A -- IT'S A GOOD BILL AND I DO AGREE WITH MOST OF

                    THE BILL.  SO THAT -- THAT WAS ONE OF MY POINTS.

                                         73



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 THE SECOND POINT OR THE QUESTION I HAD WAS, IF THIS BILL

                    PASSES AND IS SIGNED INTO LAW AND IT DOES TAKE EFFECT NOVEMBER 1,

                    2021, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITY CAN AFFORD IT OR CAN'T DO

                    IT?  WILL THEY BE AFFORDED THE SAME -- THE SAME THINGS THAT WE ARE

                    AFFORDED HERE AT THE CAPITOL?  LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, PRIOR TO MY TIME

                    BEING HERE IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE WAS A BILL PASSED THAT WE

                    WOULD DO RECORDINGS OF ALL THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS.  AND I KNOW THAT'S

                    NOT HAPPENING.  I KNOW -- I BELIEVE IT WAS SIGNED INTO LAW.  ARE THEY

                    GOING TO BE AFFORDED THOSE SAME CUSHIONS THAT WE HAVE HERE IN -- IN THE

                    STATE CAPITOL?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  UNFORTUNATELY -- I'M SO SORRY.  I

                    HEARD EVERYTHING YOU SAID EXCEPT THE WORDS AFTER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN

                    IF THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES AND THEN I DIDN'T HEAR AFTER THAT.  WHAT

                    WOULD HAPPEN IF THEY WHAT?

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  I'M SORRY.  CAN YOU HEAR ME

                    NOW?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  YES.  I'M KIND OF LEANING IN.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  I APOLOGIZE.  I SHOULD HAVE

                    CAME DOWN TO THE FLOOR.  I APOLOGIZE.  I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE

                    LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES.  WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO RUN DOWN THERE REALLY

                    QUICK?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  NO, NO, NO.  WE'RE LISTENING.  YOU

                    CAN GO AHEAD.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  ALL RIGHT.  I'M JUST CONCERNED

                    THAT IF A LOCAL MUNICIPALITY DOESN'T HAVE THE FUNDING TO PUT THIS INTO

                                         74



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PLACE --

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  I SEE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  -- TO MAKE THE PURCHASE AND

                    NOVEMBER 1, 2021 COMES INTO PLAY, ARE THEY GOING TO BE AFFORDED THE

                    SAME PLEASURES THAT WE HAVE HERE AT THE STATE CAPITOL WHEN WE'VE

                    PASSED BILLS HERE BUT WE DON'T MAKE IT HAPPEN AND IT STILL HASN'T

                    HAPPENED FOR TWO YEARS SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE.  ARE THEY GOING TO BE

                    ALLOWED TO DO THAT AS WELL?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  WE'RE NOT PARTICULARITY WORRIED

                    ABOUT THAT BECAUSE FOR THE LAST HANDFUL OF YEARS, VIDEO RECORDING HAS

                    BEEN REQUIRED FOR MOST ADULTS AND SOME JUVENILES.  SO YOUR POINT IS

                    WELL-TAKEN, BUT THOSE MEASURES ARE ALREADY IN PLACE NOW.  AGAIN, MOST

                    -- MOST OF OUR STATIONS HAVE THE EQUIPMENT THAT THEY NEED FOR THESE

                    RECORDINGS.  THIS IS REALLY PROCEDURAL, AND WE'RE SAYING THAT IT SHOULD --

                    WE SHOULD EXPAND IT AND NOT ONLY DO IT FOR JUVENILES WHO ARE BEING

                    BROUGHT IN FOR CERTAIN ALLEGED CRIMES, IT SHOULD BE ACROSS THE BOARD FOR

                    EVERYONE TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE PROCESS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  I JUST WANT TO MAKE

                    SURE THAT SOME OF OUR SMALLER COMMUNITIES CAN FINANCIALLY ABSORB THIS

                    IF THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOMS OR ENOUGH EQUIPMENT TO DO SO.  AND I

                    JUST THINK THAT THE STATE SHOULD HELP PROVIDE THAT -- THAT COST.  SO --

                    THANK YOU VERY MUCH -- THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND THE

                    QUESTION.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  YOU'RE WELCOME.

                                         75



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT NOVEMBER 1.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    CALENDAR NO. 300.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO BE

                    RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL.

                    AND IF ANYBODY FEELS DIFFERENTLY THEY SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, MS. WALSH.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE

                    ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, AND WE HOPE THAT COLLEAGUES WILL CERTAINLY

                    STAY WITH US ON THAT ONE.  THOSE WHO CHOOSE NOT TO OR WANT TO VOTE IN

                    THE NEGATIVE SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT OUR OFFICES AND WE WILL RECORD

                    YOUR VOTE AS REQUESTED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                                         76



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WOULD LIKE TO

                    COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION.  ALL TOO OFTEN, OUR YOUNG

                    PEOPLE DON'T FEEL PROTECTED IN A SOCIETY WHERE THEY SHOULD BE.  AND

                    EVEN IF THEY HAD BEEN ACCUSED OF SOMETHING, WHETHER THEY DID IT OR

                    NOT, THEY -- THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE IT VIDEOED WITH SOME LEVEL OF

                    INTEGRITY.  THEY SHOULD KNOW THAT ADULTS CARE ABOUT THEM, AND I THINK

                    THAT THIS SORT OF LEGISLATION ESPOUSES THAT.  I THINK THE LACK OF THAT IS

                    HOW WE GET INTO TROUBLE IN THIS SOCIETY WHEN SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST NOT

                    WORTH OUR TIME OR EFFORT, AND WE JUST WANT TO RAIL THROUGH THINGS, GET

                    THEM DONE, AND AT THE END OF DAY CREATE HAVOC IN THE CHILDREN'S LIVES

                    THAT WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME HURT ADULTS.  AND HURT ADULTS DO HURTFUL

                    THINGS.  HERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO HONOR YOUNG PEOPLE AS THEY ARE

                    YOUNG, AND I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THIS AND IT IS MY

                    PLEASURE TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS LEGISLATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. WALKER.

                                 MS. WALKER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE

                    OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I REMEMBER WHEN HAVING

                    CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WERE IN A JUVENILE

                    DETENTION FACILITY, AND I ASKED THEM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU COULD HAVE

                    ANYTHING, WHAT WOULD -- ONE REQUEST THAT YOU WOULD HAVE?  ONE OF

                    THEM WOULD SAY THAT THEY WANTED TO STAY UP A LITTLE LATER AT NIGHT.

                    ANOTHER ONE MENTIONED THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE TV.  AND SO THAT

                    SAID TO ME THAT THESE ARE TRULY CHILDREN.  THE SAME REQUESTS THAT THEY'RE

                                         77



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ASKING FOR ARE SIMILAR REQUESTS THAT I HEAR MY EIGHT-YEAR-OLD ASKING ME

                    FOR ON A DAILY BASIS.  AND WE RECOGNIZE THAT WHEN A PERSON IS A

                    JUVENILE WE HEARD THROUGH RAISE THE AGE THAT THE BRAIN DEVELOPMENT

                    ISN'T THAT OF AN ADULT.  AND WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN

                    VULNERABILITIES THAT EXIST, OPPORTUNITIES FOR MANIPULATION WITHIN THE

                    CRIMINAL JUSTICE THAT HAS PLAYED ITSELF OUT IN THE PRESENT DAY, IN A DAY

                    THAT'S MOSTLY NOTORIOUS, I GUESS FOR US IS OF COURSE THE CENTRAL PARK

                    FIVE SITUATION.  AND WHILE THOSE YOUNG MEN WERE DRUG THROUGH THE

                    MUD, THEIR EXONERATION HAS REALLY HAD THEM (UNINTELLIGIBLE) AS HEROES.

                                 AND SO, I REALLY WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR

                    OF THIS BILL.  I KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING, GETTING IT ACROSS THE

                    FINISH LINE.  AND PARTICULARLY, I WANT TO COMMEND SENATOR

                    MONTGOMERY, WHO HAS BEEN A STALWART WITH RESPECT TO JUVENILE JUSTICE

                    DEFINITELY THROUGHOUT MY LIFETIME.  AND SO, CONGRATULATIONS AND I LOOK

                    FORWARD TO VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALKER IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WANT TO

                    TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I, TOO, WANT TO APPLAUD THE

                    SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION.  IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE DOCUMENTATION OF

                    WHAT'S HAPPENING, ESPECIALLY WITH OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.  AS WE'VE SEEN

                    THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY HOW VIDEO OR PHOTOGRAPHS OF ARRESTS OR

                    DETAINMENTS OR, YOU KNOW, INTERACTIONS WITH POLICE HAVE BROUGHT TO

                    LIGHT SO MANY DIFFERENT ABUSES THAT EXIST IN SOCIETY.  AND IT'S REALLY PUT

                                         78



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    A SPOTLIGHT ON THIS ISSUE.  HAVING ALL THESE INTERROGATIONS BEING

                    VIDEOTAPED, HAVING A RECORD OF ALL THE INTERACTIONS WILL JUST BE ALLOWING

                    MORE JUSTICE TO OCCUR, REALLY TO SHINE A LIGHT ON WHAT 'S A VERY DARK AREA

                    AND GIVING SOME SENSE OF SECURITY TO THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO HAVE

                    BEEN DETAINED.  THAT WHATEVER HAPPENS WILL BE RECORDED AND

                    PRESERVED.

                                 THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  I APPLAUD

                    THE SPONSOR.  I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I ENCOURAGE MY

                    COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. WALLACE.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  WE HAVE A CASE RIGHT

                    NOW IN BUFFALO THAT IS EERILY, IN MY OPINION, REMINISCENT OF THE CENTRAL

                    PARK FIVE WHERE WE HAD FOUR INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE CONVICTED WHEN

                    THEY WERE TEENAGERS.  FORTY-THREE YEARS LATER NOW THEY STILL SAY THAT

                    THEY'RE INNOCENT.  AND THE KEY PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT CONVICTED THEM,

                    OR ONE OF THE KEY PIECES OF EVIDENCE, WAS A 17-YEAR-OLD'S WORD THAT HE

                    SAW THEM COMMIT THIS MURDER.  THAT 17-YEAR-OLD IS NOW MUCH OLDER

                    AND -- AND HAS RECANTED AND SAID THAT THE REASON THAT HE DID -- HE SAID

                    THAT WAS HE WAS THREATENED BY THE POLICE OFFICERS.  IF WE HAD HAD THE

                    VIDEOTAPE, WE COULD PUT TO REST WHETHER THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED OR NOT.

                    I THINK THAT THIS IS A MINIMAL BURDEN THAT WE'RE ASKING TO RECORD THE

                    INTERROGATIONS TO ENSURE THE INTEGRITY OF OUR CONVICTIONS.  IT WILL SAVE

                                         79



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    LITIGATION COSTS ON THE BACK END, AND IT IS A COMMONSENSE MEASURE TO

                    ENSURE FAIRNESS AND JUSTICE IN OUR SYSTEM.

                                 SO I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS -- THIS BILL

                    FORWARD, AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALLACE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. FERNANDEZ.

                                 MS. FERNANDEZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE, AND THANK YOU TO THE SPONSORS FOR

                    PUTTING THIS BILL AND BRINGING IT TO THE FLOOR TODAY.  MUCH LIKE WHAT WAS

                    SAID TODAY, THIS BILL IS SO IMPORTANT.  AND BETWEEN WHATEVER SIDE OF THE

                    AISLE THAT WE SIT ON, I KNOW THAT A BIG PRIORITY THAT WE PUT FORWARD AND

                    HOLD TO OUR HEARTS IS PROTECTING OUR CHILDREN.  AND IN THESE ROOMS,

                    THESE INTERROGATIONS, THESE EXPERIENCES THAT THEY GO THROUGH, A LOT HAS

                    HAPPENED.  AND WE'VE SEEN WHERE OUR CHILDREN ARE -- ARE SEEN AS THE

                    ENEMY AND PUT IN TERRIBLE POSITIONS THAT LEAD THEM TO LIFE IN PRISON OR A

                    LONG TIME IN PRISON.  SO THIS, TO ME, IS JUST VERY COMMONSENSE AND I

                    BIG PROTECTION TO OUR CHILDREN TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS

                    KNOWN AND THAT IT IS ALWAYS SEEN.

                                 SO, THANK YOU.  I -- I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ON THIS BILL

                    THE FOLLOWING REPUBLICAN MEMBERS WISH TO BE RECORDED IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE:  MR. BRIAN MILLER, MR. MONTESANO, MR. MORINELLO, MR.

                    NORRIS, MR. SMULLEN, MR. BYRNE, MR. REILLY, MR. LAWRENCE, MR.

                                         80



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    BLANKENBUSH AND MYSELF, ALTHOUGH I'VE ALREADY NOTED THAT ON THE

                    BOARD.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06440, CALENDAR NO.

                    237, PEOPLES-STOKES, TAYLOR.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO DIALYSIS CENTER DISASTER PREPAREDNESS PLANS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS BILL AMENDS THE EXECUTIVE LAW TO REQUIRE THAT DIALYSIS

                    CENTERS ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK PROVIDE SOME SOURCE OF

                    GENERATORS SO THAT IN CASE OF HURRICANE SANDY, IRENE, A SNOWSTORM IN

                    BUFFALO OR WHATEVER OUR FUTURE WEATHER IMPEDIMENTS COULD BE AND WILL

                    NO DOUBTEDLY BE, THAT A PERSON WHO IS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING DIALYZED

                    WILL NOT BE NECESSARILY IMPACTED.  MR. SPEAKER, IT IS CLEAR THAT IF YOU

                    RECEIVE YOUR DIALYSIS TREATMENT IN A HOSPITAL, THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE ONE

                    OF YOUR CONCERNS BECAUSE HOSPITALS ARE ALREADY REQUIRED TO HAVE SOME

                    SORT OF BACKUP SYSTEM FOR IN CASE THE POWER GOES OUT.  AS YOU KNOW,

                    THE NEED FOR DIALYSIS IS NOT NECESSARILY DECREASING IN ONE OF THE

                    GREATEST NATIONS IN THE WORLD, IT'S ACTUALLY INCREASING.  AND IT'S

                    INCREASING AT NUMBERS THAT THERE'S PROBABLY NOT MANY COMMUNITIES THAT

                                         81



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    YOU CAN'T GO IN AND FIND A STOREFRONT THAT'S NOW A DIALYSIS CENTER.  I'M

                    NOT SAYING THAT AS A NEGATIVE, I'M SAYING THAT AS -- AS A POSITIVE BECAUSE

                    PEOPLE DO ACTUALLY NEED TO HAVE THE SERVICE IN ORDER TO KEEP THEIR

                    KIDNEY FUNCTIONING WELL.  BUT IN THE THOUGHT PROCESS THAT WE HAVE

                    ALREADY HAD MANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE POWER HAS GONE OUT.  IN FACT,

                    IN THE WESTERN NEW YORK COMMUNITY, A LARGE CHUNK OF IT, THE POWER

                    WAS OUT A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.  THAT HAPPENS, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE

                    FUTURE.  THIS BILL WILL JUST REQUIRE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE IN THE

                    BUSINESS OF DELIVERING DIALYSIS SERVICES TO PATIENTS WHO NEED THE

                    LIFE-SAVING SERVICE, THAT THEY WILL PROVIDE SOME SORT OF GENERATORS TO

                    ENSURE THAT IF THE POWER GOES OUT, THE PERSON'S DIALYSIS PROCEDURE WILL

                    NOT NECESSARILY BE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PALMESANO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES,

                    WILL YOU YIELD?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I

                    WANTED TO JUST FIRST -- I UNDERSTAND THE INTENTION BEHIND THE BILL.  WHEN

                    YOU READ IT LIKE THAT IT MAKES SENSE.  I JUST HAVE SOME QUESTIONS AND

                    CONCERNS THAT HAVE COME UP.  WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HAVING AN

                    ALTERNATIVE POWER SOURCE THAT COULD BASICALLY POWER THE OPERATIONS AND

                                         82



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    EQUIPMENT NECESSARY FOR DIALYSIS SERVICES AT A UNIT OUTSIDE -- THAT'S

                    REQUIRED OUTSIDE OF AN ON-SITE GENERATOR, A 240 KILOWATT 7,000-POUND

                    GENERATOR, IS THERE ANY OTHER ALTERNATIVE POWER SOURCE AVAILABLE TO

                    COMPLY WITH THIS MANDATE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  I ACTUALLY WOULD THINK

                    THAT SHOULD BE UP TO THE DECISION OF THE PERSON WHO DECIDED TO BE IN

                    THE BUSINESS OF PROVIDING DIALYSIS SERVICES.  I WILL SAY THIS:  IN FACT, JUST

                    SINCE THIS BILL HAS BEEN INTRODUCED THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE SIZE AND THE

                    COST OF GENERATORS IS STARTING TO CHANGE.  AND I THINK THAT HAPPENS

                    BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES WHERE COMMUNITIES HAVE

                    LOST POWER NOT JUST AS A RESULT OF SOME WEATHER-RELATED ISSUE, BUT THE

                    FACT THAT SOMETIMES WE JUST LOSE POWER.  AND SO I THINK YOU SEE

                    PEOPLE'S CREATIVITY, AS WELL AS THEIR INNOVATION GOING INTO AREAS WHERE

                    GENERATORS ARE SMALLER, LESS EXPENSIVE AND MORE READILY AVAILABLE TO AN

                    AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD, LESS KNOWN SOMEBODY WHO HAS MADE A DECISION TO

                    BE IN BUSINESS.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  RIGHT NOW ISN'T A CONDITION FOR

                    COVERAGE THROUGH THE CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID THAT DIALYSIS

                    CENTERS ARE REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN AN EXTENSIVE FEDERALLY-APPROVED --

                    PRESCRIBED EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS PLAN RIGHT NOW TO HAVE FOR ACTIONS

                    THAT MIGHT TAKE PLACE IF THERE'S A POWER FAILURE OR A DISASTER OR OTHER

                    EMERGENCIES?  AND ALSO ALONG WITH THAT, DON'T DIALYSIS CENTERS HAVE

                    BACKUP AGREEMENTS RIGHT NOW WITH LOCAL HOSPITALS AND PLANS TO TRANSFER

                    PATIENTS IN CASE OF A PROLONGED OUTAGE OR EMERGENCY?  RIGHT NOW ISN'T

                    THAT WHAT'S IN PLACE RIGHT NOW UNDER THE LAW AND THE GUIDELINES THAT ARE

                                         83



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    IN PLACE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  SO YOUR QUESTION IS...

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  RIGHT NOW -- YEAH, RIGHT NOW

                    THERE IS -- TO PROVIDE DIALYSIS SERVICES, THE CENTER FOR MEDICARE AND

                    MEDICAID REQUIRES A FEDERALLY EMERGENCY APPROVED PLAN TO DEAL WITH

                    OUTAGES OR OTHER EMERGENCIES THAT COME UP.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  OKAY, SO PERHAPS THAT IS

                    SOMETHING THAT THEY HAD REQUIRED WITHIN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.  I'M -

                    I'M NOT SURE THAT IT IS WORKING FOR AT LEAST THE GENTLEMAN I SAW ON THE

                    NEWS IN WESTERN NEW YORK WHO WAS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING DIALYZED

                    WHEN THE POWER DID GO OUT IN THE SOUTHTOWNS.  AND FOR HIM THAT WAS A

                    VERY SCARY SITUATION, AND FOR HIS FAMILY IT WAS.  AND AS THE MOTHER OF A

                    DAUGHTER WHO USED TO BE ON DIALYSIS AND IS NOW BEING -- HAD A KIDNEY

                    TRANSPLANT, IT WOULD BE A SCARY THING FOR ME AS WELL TO KNOW MY

                    DAUGHTER WAS AT DIALYSIS OR ANYBODY WHO IS AT DIALYSIS AND ALL OF A

                    SUDDEN THE POWER WENT OUT.  NOT THAT THAT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS

                    NEGATIVE AND WILL HURT THEM IN THE LONG RUN, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO

                    HAPPEN AT ALL IF WE PLAN FOR IT.  THERE'S NO WAY THAT WE SHOULD BE IN

                    2020 AND WE'RE NOT MAKING THE RIGHT KIND OF PLANS FOR HOW PEOPLE ARE

                    GOING TO RECEIVE MEDICAL CARE, PARTICULARLY DIALYSIS.

                                 AND SO, AGAIN, THIS GETS ASKED THAT IF YOU WANT TO BE

                    IN THAT BUSINESS THAT YOU GIVE US A PLAN ON HOW YOU PLAN TO PROTECT

                    PEOPLE.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY

                    DIALYSIS CENTERS THERE ARE IN NEW YORK AND HOW MANY MIGHT ALREADY

                                         84



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    HAVE GENERATORS?  OR HAVE YOU REACHED OUT TO THE DIALYSIS CENTERS IN

                    THE INDUSTRY THAT ARE PROVIDING THESE SERVICES, AND HOW MANY MIGHT BE

                    IMPACTED AND MIGHT HAVE TO CLOSE OR RELOCATE BECAUSE OF THIS MANDATE?

                    HAVE YOU HAD ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM ABOUT THIS AND HOW THEY

                    MIGHT --

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  NO, I ACTUALLY DON'T

                    KNOW THAT NUMBER, BUT I DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE, I WANT TO SAY AT LEAST

                    SIX OR SO IN THE WESTERN NEW YORK COMMUNITY UNDER DIFFERENT NAMES.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  AND I KNOW MANY, MANY

                    DIALYSIS CENTERS LEASE SPACE FROM LANDLORDS, AND CERTAINLY, YOU WOULD

                    NEED THE LANDLORD APPROVAL.  AND IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING THAT DOES IT

                    REQUIRE -- IF THEY WON'T ALLOW IT, IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE SPACE FOR A

                    GENERATOR LIKE THAT COULD POSE A PROBLEM FOR A CLOSURE OR RELOCATION

                    WHICH COULD TAKE SOME TIME AND WHICH HAS MANDATES AND

                    REQUIREMENTS ALONG WITH IT FROM THE -- FROM THE GOVERNMENT THAT NEEDS

                    TO COMPLY WITH THE CLOSURE OR TRANSFER, CORRECT?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  I'M SURE SOME OF THEM

                    ARE RENTING.  IN FACT, I KNOW ONE COMPANY THAT ACTUALLY RENTS FROM

                    SOME PEOPLE WHO I KNOW JUST RECENTLY DEVELOPED THE BUILDING.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S MY

                    UNDERSTANDING THERE'S A STATUTORY REQUIREMENT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    HEALTH TO APPROVE EITHER A CLOSING OR A RELOCATION OF A LICENSED FACILITY.

                    AND ALSO THERE'S ALSO LEGAL AND FINANCIAL RAMIFICATIONS FOR EARLY

                    TERMINATION OF LEASE AGREEMENTS AND WHERE -- AND RIGHT NOW THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND PUBLIC HEALTH AND PLANNING COUNCIL

                                         85



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    GENERALLY REQUIRE SOMETIMES 10-YEAR TERMS AS A CONDITION FOR LICENSING

                    A DIALYSIS CENTER.  SO BASED ON THAT AND THE COMPLICATIONS THAT CAN

                    CAUSE AND THE TIME IT TAKES TO DO A RELOCATION AND GET AN APPROVAL, THAT

                    CAN CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR THE DIALYSIS CENTER IF IT HAS TO SHUT DOWN AND

                    THIS IMPACT IT WOULD HAVE ON SERVICES, COULD THAT NOT?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES, IT -- IT ACTUALLY

                    COULD CAUSE BOTH PROBLEMS FOR THE PERSON WHO IS IN THE BUSINESS AS

                    WELL AS THE PERSON WHO IS ON THE DIALYSIS MACHINE AT THE TIME.

                    PARTICULARLY IF THE BUSINESS HAS MULTIPLE LOCATIONS AND WITHIN A REGION

                    AND THEY HAVE ONE GENERATOR THAT THEY TRANSPORT BETWEEN ROCHESTER,

                    SYRACUSE AND I'LL SAY THE FINGER LAKES.  SOMETIMES YOU MIGHT NOT BE

                    ABLE TO GET THAT GENERATOR TO THE FINGER LAKES AS QUICKLY AS YOU

                    THOUGHT YOU COULD.  AND SO, AGAIN, I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT TECHNOLOGY

                    HAS CHANGED.  WE'VE BECOME A LOT MORE INNOVATIVE WITH THE

                    OPPORTUNITIES FOR VENTILATORS [SIC].  I DON'T WANT TO SAY THE NAME OF ONE

                    BECAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE.  BUT I DO THINK THAT IF YOU

                    WANT TO BE IN THE BUSINESS - WHICH I BELIEVE IS A PRETTY LUCRATIVE

                    BUSINESS BECAUSE IT'S ALL PRETTY MUCH FUNDED BY FEDERAL MEDICARE

                    DOLLARS - THEN YOU SHOULD BE WILLING TO INVEST IN THE LONG-RANGE

                    INTERESTS OF YOUR PATIENTS.  YOU CAN'T TELL WHEN THE WEATHER IS GOING TO

                    GO BAD UNLESS YOU'RE WATCHING THE WEATHER ON A REGULAR BASIS.  BUT

                    WHAT YOU CAN TELL IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO COME TO YOU DESPERATELY NEED

                    TO HAVE THEIR KIDNEY DIALYZED.  AND NOTHING SHOULD GET IN THE WAY OF

                    THAT AND IT SHOULD NOT BE A BUSINESS DECISION OF YOURS THAT YOU'D RATHER

                    NOT SPEND THIS -- I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU MIGHT WANT TO PAY FOR IT

                                         86



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    -- YOU'D RATHER NOT SPEND THIS MONEY TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE WHO COME TO

                    YOU FOR A SERVICE.  I THINK IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S A REASONABLE REQUEST, AND I'M

                    PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONVINCE YOU OR TO CONVINCE SOMEONE

                    WHO DOESN'T WANT TO INVEST IN THEIR BUSINESS THAT WAY THAT THE PEOPLE

                    ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEIR BUSINESS.  BUT I ASSURE YOU, THE PEOPLE

                    ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEIR BUSINESS, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY

                    PEOPLE ARE GOING TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHERE THEY RECEIVE SERVICES

                    AT, WHERE THEY KNOW THEY CAN BE PROTECTED.  BY THE WAY, I'LL RESTATE THIS

                    AGAIN.  IF YOU HAVE YOUR DIALYSIS PROCEDURE DONE AT ANY HOSPITAL IN

                    NEW YORK STATE, THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR YOU BECAUSE

                    THEY DO HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN IN CASE THE POWER GOES OUT.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU.  I APPRECIATE IT.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  CERTAINLY, I'M NOT GOING TO

                    QUESTION THE SPONSOR'S INTENT, AND -- AND -- AND WHAT SHE'S TRYING TO DO

                    BEHIND IT.  I'M DEFINITELY NOT QUESTIONING THAT.  I THINK THE POINT I'M

                    TRYING TO BRING UP TO MY COLLEAGUES IS THAT SOMETIMES WITH LEGISLATION

                    WE HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AND A NEGATIVE IMPACT.  FOR

                    EXAMPLE, I THINK IN NEW YORK STATE RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AROUND 264

                    DIALYSIS CENTERS AROUND THE STATE.  ONE COMPANY HAS 78 DIALYSIS

                    CENTERS THAT SERVES 7,100 PATIENTS.  IF THIS LEGISLATION WERE TO PASS THE

                    WAY IT IS, BECAUSE SOME FACILITIES, 19 FACILITIES, ARE NOT ABLE TO HAVE A

                    GENERATOR ON SITE FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT WOULD CAUSE THEM TO CLOSE OR

                    RELOCATE, IMPACTING THE CARE OF, YOU KNOW, 1,700 PATIENTS, 25 PERCENT

                                         87



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    OF THAT CASELOAD.  I THINK THAT'S THE CONCERN I WANT TO BRING UP TO MY

                    COLLEAGUES BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE SOME CLOSURES OR RELOCATIONS,

                    DISRUPTIONS TO THE CARE OF OUR PATIENTS, CAUSING UNCERTAINTY.  ESPECIALLY

                    CREATING A CHALLENGE IS FINDING ALTERNATIVE LOCATIONS THAT WOULD GET THAT

                    FEDERAL APPROVAL THROUGH CMS.  THIS WAS NOT A REQUIREMENT OF THEIR

                    CONDITION -- CERTIFICATE OF NEED WHEN THEY APPLIED, AND THEY KNEW --

                    EVERY DIALYSIS CENTER HAS TO HAVE AN EMERGENCY PLAN THAT'S APPROVED BY

                    THE CENTER FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID RIGHT NOW TO MEET THE NEED OF

                    THE COMMUNITY.  THEY HAVE AGREEMENTS IN PLACE WITH LOCAL HOSPITALS SO

                    IF THERE'S A PROLONGED OUTAGE THAT THEY WOULD TRANSFER PATIENTS TO THOSE

                    HOSPITALS TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE BECAUSE, AS THE SPONSOR SAID, THE

                    HOSPITALS DO HAVE THAT TYPE OF GENERATION.  I THINK, AS I WAS

                    MENTIONING, WHEN YOU HAVE THAT MANY CENTERS THAT -- THAT CAN BE

                    IMPACTED BY THIS, FOR JUST ONE ORGANIZATION, 19 OF THEIR 78 FACILITIES

                    WOULD HAVE TO CLOSE OR RELOCATE.  THAT -- THAT CAUSES A PROBLEM BECAUSE

                    THERE'S FEDERAL -- FEDERAL GUIDELINES WHEN IT COMES TO RELOCATING OR

                    CLOSING A FACILITY.  THAT COULD TAKE TIME THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    HEALTH.  NOT TO MENTION THE -- THE -- THE LEASE AGREEMENTS TAKE TIME.

                    SOMETIMES THEY HAVE 10-YEAR CONDITIONS AS FAR AS SETTING UP THESE

                    CENTERS.  AND THAT WAS JUST -- I JUST TALKED ABOUT 78 OF THEM.  THERE'S

                    ANOTHER 200 -- THERE'S ANOTHER 194 OF THEM THAT WE DON'T KNOW HOW

                    THIS WOULD IMPACT THEM.  IF WE HAVE THESE FACILITIES CLOSING THAT COULD

                    BE PROBLEMATIC.  AND JUST TO READ YOU SOME OF THE LIST, THERE'S 19 -- 19

                    CENTERS.  THERE'S ONE IN LONG ISLAND, TWO IN STATEN ISLAND, TWO IN THE

                    BRONX, TWO IN QUEENS, SEVEN IN BROOKLYN, FIVE IN UPSTATE NEW YORK,

                                         88



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    INCLUDING IN THE SPONSOR'S DISTRICT THAT COULD EFFECTIVELY BE CLOSED

                    BECAUSE OF THE MANDATE FROM THIS.  AGAIN, LET ME JUST BE CLEAR.  I'M NOT

                    QUESTIONING THE SPONSOR'S INTENT.  ON THE FACE OF IT IT SEEMS LIKE IT

                    MAKES SENSE.  HOWEVER, AS WITH ALL LEGISLATION THERE'S ALWAYS NEGATIVE

                    INTENT -- UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.  THE FACT THAT THESE ORGANIZATIONS

                    HAVE FEDERALLY EMERGENCY-APPROVED PLANS IN PLACE, IT'S NOT ABOUT THEM

                    NOT WANTING TO PROVIDE THE SERVICE.  IT'S JUST THAT -- WHETHER THEY ARE

                    CAPABLE OR ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE OF THE LIMITATIONS THEY HAVE WITH THE

                    PHYSICAL LOCATION.  IF THEY HAVE LEASE AGREEMENTS THAT WOULD TAKE TIME.

                    AND AGAIN, TO RELOCATE IS PROBLEMATIC.  IT TAKES AN AMOUNT OF TIME TO

                    GET APPROVAL THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.  AND TO HAVE THESE

                    CLOSURES WOULD DISRUPT THE CARE FOR A NUMBER OF PATIENTS.  I'M JUST

                    CONCERNED THAT THIS COULD REALLY LEAD TO, AGAIN, CLOSURES AND RELOCATIONS

                    OF OUR DIALYSIS CENTERS WHICH PROVIDE CRITICAL LIFESAVING CARE TO PEOPLE

                    WHO NEED IT.  AND I JUST THINK THAT'S A CONCERN I HAVE ON THIS ISSUE.

                    AND I THINK IT WOULD JUST BE BETTER TO MAYBE HAVE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE

                    INDUSTRY, THAT -- THOSE PROVIDING DIALYSIS CARE AND WORK WITH THEM TO

                    SAY HOW CAN WE ADDRESS THIS NEED, AND TALK ABOUT THE NEW TECHNOLOGY

                    THAT'S OUT THERE BEFORE WE JUST IMPLEMENT A MANDATE ON THAT THAT COULD

                    ACTUALLY CAUSE AN INTERRUPTION TO THE CARE AND SERVICE THAT'S BEING

                    PROVIDED, THIS LIFESAVING CARE OF DIALYSIS THAT PEOPLE NEED TO SURVIVE.

                    SO I JUST THINK IF THERE WAS MORE OF A DIALOGUE WITH THE INDUSTRY WHO

                    HAS TO DO THIS TO SEE, HOW CAN WE WORK WITH YOU TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN?

                    HOW CAN WE WORK WITH YOU TO STREAMLINE THIS THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT

                    OF HEALTH AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO HAVE MANDATES AND

                                         89



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    REQUIREMENTS AS FAR AS CLOSURES AND RELOCATIONS?  WE ALREADY KNOW

                    THIS WOULD CON -- CREATE CLOSURE AND RELOCATIONS OF 19 FACILITIES.  WE

                    JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER FACILITIES, AND ONE IS TOO MANY.

                    SO WHY AREN'T WE WORKING WITH THE INDUSTRY TO FIND OUT WHAT WE CAN

                    DO TO BE A PARTNER INSTEAD OF PUTTING A MANDATE IN PLACE - WHICH AGAIN,

                    I KNOW ON THE FACE OF IT MAKES -- SOUNDS LIKE IT MAKES SENSE.  IT'S JUST

                    THAT NEGATIVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ARE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IF

                    FACILITIES HAVE TO CLOSE DOWN.  IF FACILITIES CLOSE DOWN OR RELOCATE THAT

                    MEANS PATIENTS AREN'T GETTING THE CARE THEY NEED, AND I THINK THAT'S

                    SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD ALL BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

                                 SO UNTIL WE CAN ADDRESS THAT NEED AND CREATE THAT

                    PARTNERSHIP, FOR THOSE REASONS I'M JUST GOING BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE

                    ON THAT BILL.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR

                    WHO I HAVE SO MUCH RESPECT FOR ON THIS ISSUE.  I KNOW THE PERSONAL

                    CONNECTION.  I APPLAUD YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS AND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO

                    DO, SO I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE I'M COMING FROM.  BUT AGAIN, FOR

                    THOSE REASONS, I'M GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 237.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO BE

                                         90



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR

                    MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING REPUBLICAN MEMBERS IN THE MINORITY VOTING NO:  MR. BYRNE,

                    MR. DESTEFANO, MR. DIPIETRO AND MR. PALMESANO.  AND JUST A

                    CORRECTION, THAT'S MS. BYRNES THAT WILL BE VOTING NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MR. ORTIZ TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. ORTIZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING

                    ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL.  I THINK

                    THIS BILL IS MOVING US FORWARD.  AS YOU ALL KNOW, I HAVE A MOTHER WHO

                    HAD A KIDNEY TRANSPLANT THAT WAS GIVEN BY MY SISTER.  AND I THINK THAT

                    THE MORE THAT THE QUALITY ADVANCE AND THE MORE QUICK WE CAN HAVE OF

                    THE 78-PLUS EXTRA CENTERS AROUND THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  I THINK THAT

                    WILL BE A -- A -- A GREAT ADVANCE TO ENSURE THAT OUR -- THE PEOPLE THAT

                    NEED DIALYSIS THEY WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE THEIR OWN DIALYSIS UNTIL THEY

                    CAN FIND A TRANSPLANT.

                                 THEREFORE, MR. SPEAKER, I REMOVE MY VOTE AND I WILL

                    BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  MR. ORTIZ

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                         91



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 42, CALENDAR NO. 244, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06710-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 244, ROZIC, GOTTFRIED, AUBRY, BARRETT, BLAKE, DAVILA, FAHY, JAFFEE,

                    MOSLEY, PERRY, L. ROSENTHAL, DE LA ROSA, SIMON, WEPRIN, QUART,

                    DENDEKKER, CRUZ, D'URSO, COLTON, ORTIZ, DICKENS, RIVERA, SAYEGH,

                    HYNDMAN, COOK, GLICK, REYES, WILLIAMS, MCDONOUGH, ABINANTI,

                    WRIGHT, FERNANDEZ, DARLING, JEAN-PIERRE, TAYLOR, ASHBY, EPSTEIN,

                    ARROYO, HUNTER, BARRON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO REQUIRING THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS AND COMMUNITY

                    SUPERVISION TO PLACE INCARCERATED PARENTS AT CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTIONS

                    AND FACILITIES CLOSEST TO THEIR CHILDREN'S HOME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. ROZIC.

                                 MS. ROZIC:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL

                    WOULD REQUIRE DOCS TO PLACE THOSE INCARCERATED WITH MINOR CHILDREN

                    CLOSER TO HOME WHENEVER FEASIBLE, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE BEST

                    INTERESTS OF THE CHILD OR CHILDREN AND THE CONSENT OF THE PARENTS.  THE

                    BILL REQUIRES THAT DOCS PROVIDE AN ANNUAL REPORT TO THE LEGISLATURE

                    ABOUT THE CLOSE TO HOME PROGRAM, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, HOW

                    MANY INDIVIDUALS WERE TRANSFERRED AND OTHER REGIONAL INFORMATION.  AS

                    WE KNOW, STUDIES HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT CHILDREN WHOSE PARENTS ARE

                    INCARCERATED SUFFER FROM LACK OF CONTACT WITH THEM BOTH EMOTIONALLY

                                         92



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND EDUCATIONALLY.  KIDS WHO ARE ABLE TO VISIT INCARCERATED PARENTS DO

                    BETTER IN SCHOOL AND ARE GENERALLY HAPPIER AND BETTER ADJUSTED.  THOSE

                    WHO ARE INCARCERATED WHO HAVE CONTACT WITH THEIR FAMILIES THROUGH

                    THESE VISITS ALSO SHOW LOWER A RATE OF RECIDIVISM AND HAVE A GREATER

                    INCENTIVE TO PARTICIPATE IN PROGRAMS AND OTHER ACTIVITIES.  OVERALL,

                    VISITATION IS A POSITIVE FORCE THAT WE SHOULD BE ENCOURAGING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROZIC, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  GREAT.  THANK YOU SO MUCH.  SO JUST --

                    I'D JUST LIKE TO WALK THROUGH A FEW ASPECTS OF THE BILL.  I THANK YOU FOR

                    THE SUMMARY THAT YOU JUST GAVE.  DOES THIS BILL APPLY TO INMATES WHO

                    ARE ALREADY IN A GIVEN CORRECTIONAL FACILITY TO HAVE THEM MOVED TO

                    ANOTHER LOCATION, OR IS IT JUST FOR AN INITIAL PLACEMENT OF THAT INMATE?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  I BELIEVE IT'S BOTH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  IT IS FOR BOTH.

                                 MS. ROZIC:  YEAH, THE CRITERIA AND PROCEDURES

                    WOULD BE ESTABLISHED BY DOCS IN CONSULTATION WITH OCFS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  RIGHT.  SO --  AND I'M ASSUMING THAT

                    THAT CONSULTATION WOULD ALSO INCLUDE THINGS LIKE HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT

                    WHAT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD, WHAT -- HOW DOES DOCS MAKE

                    THAT DETERMINATION OF BEST INTEREST?  WOULD THERE BE --  I MEAN, IS THERE

                                         93



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ANY KIND OF SENSE OF WHETHER THAT WOULD ENVISION A HEARING OF SOME

                    KIND OR THE APPOINTMENT OF AN ATTORNEY FOR THE CHILD OR AN AFC, ALSO

                    FORMERLY KNOWN AS A LAW GUARDIAN?  IS -- HAS THERE BEEN ANY DISCUSSION

                    AT ALL ABOUT WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  THAT IS UP TO THE DISCRETION OF THE STATE

                    AGENCIES.  BUT I KNOW GENERALLY THAT DOCS CONSIDERS MANY FACTORS,

                    INCLUDING THE INTEREST OF THE CHILD, AND ALSO OBVIOUSLY SECURITY, SAFETY

                    AND, QUITE FRANKLY, THE LOGISTICS OF IT.  IF YOU'RE, FOR EXAMPLE, A WOMAN

                    IN MAX THERE'S ONLY ONE FACILITY THAT YOU CAN GO TO.  SO, YOU KNOW,

                    THERE -- THERE ARE NO OPTIONS.  BUT IF YOU ARE, YOU KNOW, IN A MEDIUM

                    STATE FACILITY YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE OF TWO DIFFERENT SITES.  AND SO IT

                    WOULD BE UP TO OCFS, IN CONSULTATION WITH DOCS, TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  IS THIS TYPE OF ANALYSIS BEING DONE AT

                    ALL EVEN INFORMALLY, NOW, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  I MEAN, TRANSFERS HAPPEN EVERY DAY AT

                    DOCS, AND SO I IMAGINE THAT THEY -- THEY KEEP RECORDS OF THAT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  IS -- WHEN TRANSFERS ARE DONE,

                    ARE -- IS THERE ALSO A CONSIDERATION OF THE -- THE GOOD BEHAVIOR OR THE --

                    THEIR -- DO THEY, YOU KNOW, DO THEY BUILD UP ANY POINTS WHERE THEY GET

                    TO THEN GO TO -- TO WHAT THEY CONSIDER TO BE A BETTER PLACE, OR IS THERE

                    ANYTHING LIKE THAT THAT HAPPENS?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  I KNOW THAT CURRENTLY DOCS GENERALLY

                    MOVES PEOPLE CLOSER TO HOME AS THEY GET CLOSER TO THEIR RELEASE DATE,

                    AND AS YOU KNOW, THAT THAT IS DEPENDENT ON MULTIPLE FACTORS.  BUT, NOT

                    TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

                                         94



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  YOU MENTIONED AS YOU

                    SUMMARIZED THE BILL THAT IT WOULD REQUIRE THE CONSENT OF THE PARENT.

                    DO YOU MEAN BY THAT THE CONSENT OF THE INCARCERATED PARENT?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  DOES IT -- DOES THIS REQUIRE THE

                    CONSENT OF THE -- THE PARENT WHERE THE CHILD IS CURRENTLY LIVING?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  I IMAGINE THAT THE FAMILY IN WHICH --

                    WHICH IS TAKING CARE OF THE CHILD WOULD ALSO BE CONSULTED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND THAT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE A FOSTER

                    PARENT IF THAT'S WHERE THE CHILD WAS CURRENTLY PLACED?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  WHERE -- YEAH, OR A GRANDPARENT OR...

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  NOW, YOU MENTIONED EARLIER

                    THAT SOMETIMES THERE ISN'T MUCH OF A CHOICE TO BE MADE IF THEY'RE -- FOR

                    EXAMPLE, WITH -- WITH WOMEN THERE'S JUST THE ONE PLACE WHERE THEY

                    COULD BE.  IS IT -- IS IT BEDFORD?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  MM-HMM.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEP.  SO -- SO JUST TO MAKE THAT POINT

                    EVEN IF YOU MOVE THE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL CLOSER TO THEIR -- THEIR

                    CHILD OR CHILDREN, IT STILL COULD BE A CONSIDERABLE DISTANCE AWAY, COULD

                    IT NOT?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MS. ROZIC:  DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY LIVE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  RIGHT.  SO THAT WOULD STILL CREATE

                    ISSUES, PERHAPS, WITH TRANSPORTATION AND OTHER COSTS TO FACILITATE THE

                                         95



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    VISITS OF THE CHILD WITH THE INCARCERATED PARENT.

                                 MS. ROZIC:  YEAH.  AND AS YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT, I

                    THINK, TWO YEARS AGO WHEN WE DEBATED THIS BILL, I'M ALL FOR MORE

                    WEB-BASED VIDEOCONFERENCING.  HOWEVER WE CAN INCREASE THE

                    RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A CHILD AND A PARENT IS CRITICAL AT ANY AGE, AND SO I

                    DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS THE BE-ALL AND END-ALL, BUT JUST ONE FACTOR THAT

                    CAN HELP BRING FAMILIES TOGETHER.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  VERY GOOD.  THANK YOU SO

                    MUCH FOR YOUR ANSWERS.

                                 AND, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MS.

                    WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO, WE DID DEBATE THIS IS A COUPLE OF

                    YEARS AGO, AND I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS -- AND I THINK IN JUST THOSE

                    COUPLE OF YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING HERE AT THE ASSEMBLY, THE ONE --

                    ONE THING THAT'S REALLY STARTING TO GRIND MY GEARS IS THE -- THE IDEA OF

                    DELEGATING THE AUTHORITY, THE LEGISLATURE DELEGATING THE AUTHORITY TO

                    DOCS AND OCFS IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE TO DEVELOP A WHOLE PLAN

                    FOR HOW THIS WOULD BE EFFECTUATED.  I FEEL THAT THE -- THE ASSEMBLY, THIS

                    BODY, SHOULD BE MORE DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH DEVELOPING WHAT THAT

                    PLAN IS.  AND THE REASON IS THAT AS -- AS SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN AN

                    ATTORNEY FOR THE CHILD FOR A DOZEN OR SO YEARS AND HAVING HAD CASES

                    WHERE MY CLIENT'S PARENT IS INCARCERATED, VERY OFTEN I'M SPEAKING WITH

                    THE CHILD AND THE CHILD DOES NOT WISH TO HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH HIS

                    PARENT OR HER PARENT.  AND I THINK IT'S REALLY VERY CRITICALLY IMPORTANT

                                         96



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THAT WE ALLOW THE WISHES OF THE CHILD TO BE CONSIDERED AND HEARD.  AND

                    NORMALLY THE WAY THAT THAT'S DONE IN A FAMILY COURT SETTING AND IN

                    OTHER SETTINGS IS TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY FOR THE CHILD APPOINTED TO MEET

                    REGULARLY WITH THE CHILD, TO CONFER IN AN AGE-APPROPRIATE WAY FOR THAT

                    CHILD AND TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER IT TRULY WOULD BE IN THE BEST INTEREST

                    AND TO ADVOCATE FOR THE CHILD'S WISHES.  AND I -- IT'S JUST COMPLETELY

                    ABSENT FROM THIS BILL, AND IT CONCERNS ME THAT WE WOULD JUST BE TURNING

                    ALL OF THAT OVER TO DOCS AND OCFS, BOTH GREAT AGENCIES, BOTH VERY

                    CONCERNED, I'M SURE, IN FULFILLING THEIR MISSIONS.  BUT I JUST FEEL THAT IT

                    -- IT ABDICATES OUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A LEGISLATIVE BODY.  SO THAT -- THAT

                    IS SOMETHING THAT HAS, I GUESS, CHANGED IN MY OWN MIND IN LOOKING AT

                    THIS BILL IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.  I THINK THAT ALSO, AS WAS KIND OF

                    POINTED OUT IN DEBATE, EVEN IF YOU'RE PLACING THE INCARCERATED

                    INDIVIDUAL CLOSER, IT STILL IS NOT NECESSARILY MUCH CLOSER.  AND I THINK

                    THAT MOST OF THE CHILD CLIENTS THAT I REPRESENT, IF THEY HAVE CONTACT AT ALL

                    WITH THEIR PARENT WHO'S INCARCERATED IT'S GENERALLY THROUGH PHONE CALLS

                    AND IT'S THROUGH LETTERS.  AND THAT CAN PRESENT ITS OWN PROBLEMS IF, FOR

                    EXAMPLE, THE CHILD IS RESIDING WITH A PARENT WHO IS PERHAPS THE VICTIM

                    OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND THERE'S ISSUES WITH LETTERS BEING SENT THROUGH

                    THE CHILD BUT REALLY INTENDED TO THE -- TO THE NON-INCARCERATED PARENT.

                    THERE'S A LOT OF -- IT'S A COMPLICATED ISSUE, AND THERE ARE -- THERE ARE

                    OTHER METHODS.  I REALLY DO LIKE THE IDEA OF THE VIDEOCONFERENCING

                    BECAUSE I THINK THAT PARTICULARLY FOR A YOUNG CHILD, THE PROSPECT OF

                    GOING INTO A PRISON SETTING IS -- CAN BE A VERY HARSH EXPERIENCE FOR A

                    YOUNG CHILD.  AND I -- I DON'T KNOW SO MUCH WHETHER THERE WOULD BE A

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    RISK OF ANY KIND OF A PHYSICAL HARM, BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE COULD BE

                    SOME EMOTIONAL HARM TO THE CHILD FOR -- FOR BEING PLACED IN THAT

                    CIRCUMSTANCE, DEPENDING UPON THE AGE AND MATURITY AND THE DESIRE OF

                    THAT CHILD TO VISIT WITH HIS OR HER PARENT.

                                 SO I DO HAVE SOME MISGIVINGS ABOUT THIS -- THIS BILL,

                    AND ALTHOUGH I VOTED IN FAVOR OF IT THE LAST TIME, I ACTUALLY THINK THAT

                    I'M GOING TO VOTE NO BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB, I

                    THINK, OF REALLY CRAFTING THE MECHANISM BY WHICH WE WOULD BE

                    EVALUATING THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD IN PUTTING A PROGRAM LIKE THIS

                    IN PLACE.  I DO THINK -- I DO SUPPORT THE IDEA OF CONTINUING FAMILY

                    BONDS, AND I DON'T THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE AN INDIVIDUAL BECOMES

                    INCARCERATED THAT THEY SHOULD BE WALKING AWAY FROM THEIR CHILDREN IF

                    THEY WANT TO HAVE THAT CHILD REMAIN IN THEIR LIVES.  I DO THINK THAT WE --

                    WE DO NEED TO WORK SOMETHING OUT.  I JUST THINK THAT IT NEEDS TO BE A

                    LITTLE BIT MORE FULLY FORMED BEFORE THIS -- THIS BODY VOTES ON IT.

                                 BUT I THANK THE SPONSOR AND I WILL CAST MY VOTE IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SOLAGES.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 365 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 244.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                         98



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MR.

                    TAGUE AND MR. SALKA IN THE NEGATIVE, ALONG WITH MR. WALCZYK AND

                    MARY BETH WALSH.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06787-D, CALENDAR

                    NO. 245, WALLACE, EPSTEIN, MOSLEY, M.G. MILLER, SIMON, GOTTFRIED, L.

                    ROSENTHAL, REYES, OTIS, SIMOTAS, QUART, KIM, RODRIGUEZ, FAHY,

                    ABINANTI, WEPRIN, ORTIZ, COLTON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO THE USE OF BIOMETRIC IDENTIFYING TECHNOLOGY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. WALLACE.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YES.  SO THIS BILL IMPOSES A

                    MORATORIUM ON THE USE AND PURCHASE OF BIOMETRIC IDENTIFYING

                    TECHNOLOGY, INCLUDING FACIAL RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY, IN SCHOOLS UNTIL

                    JULY 1, 2022 OR UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION

                    STUDIES THE ISSUE AND REPORTS BACK TO THIS LEGISLATURE AND TO THE

                    GOVERNOR AS TO WHETHER AND UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES IS APPROPRIATE

                    TO USE THAT TECHNOLOGY IN NON-PUBLIC AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS.  IT REQUIRES

                    THE COMMISSIONER TO CONSULT WITH THE STATE EDUCATION CHIEF PRIVACY

                                         99



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    OFFICER.  IT REQUIRES THE COMMISSIONER TO HOLD PUBLIC HEARINGS AND TO

                    CONSULT WITH STAKEHOLDERS INCLUDING PARENTS, TEACHERS, SCHOOL

                    ADMINISTRATORS, SCHOOL SAFETY EXPERTS, EXPERTS IN DATA PRIVACY AND

                    EXPERTS IN STUDENT PRIVACY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WILL YOU YIELD --

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALLACE YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MS. WALLACE.  I KNOW

                    THAT THIS BILL CAME UP LAST YEAR FOR A VOTE.  WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THIS

                    AREA SINCE THIS BILL FIRST CAME UP?  HAS THE BOARD OF EDUCATION OR THE

                    STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT MOVED FORWARD WITH STUDIES?  WHAT HAS

                    HAPPENED?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  WELL, IF YOU RECALL WE NEVER PASSED

                    IT INTO LAW, SO I DON'T THINK ANYTHING HAS HAPPENED IN TERMS OF MOVING

                    FORWARD WITH STUDIES AT THIS POINT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  HAVE YOU CONTACTED THE STATE

                    EDUCATION DEPARTMENT TO SOLICIT THEIR COMMENTS AND INPUT ON THIS?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YES, I'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE

                    STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT THROUGHOUT DRAFTING THIS LEGISLATION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY UNDER

                    CURRENT LAW, RIGHT, TO DO SUCH A STUDY.  WHAT WAS THEIR VIEW ON WHY

                    THEY HAVEN'T?

                                         100



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MS. WALLACE:  SO, AT SOME POINT THE STATE

                    EDUCATION DEPARTMENT ISSUED SECTION 2(D), WHICH AT ONE POINT THEY

                    WERE TAKING THE POSITION THAT DID ADDRESS THE CONCERNS RAISED IN HERE

                    AND NOW I THINK THEY'RE TAKING A DIFFERENT POSITION, SAYING THAT STUDENT

                    DATA IS NOT COVERED UNDER 2(D).  SO, QUITE FRANKLY, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT

                    WE NEED A THOUGHTFUL STATEWIDE POLICY AND GUIDELINES AND WE DO NOT

                    CURRENTLY HAVE THOSE UNDER THE LAW.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AS YOU KNOW, UNDER OUR STATE

                    CONSTITUTION SINCE ACTUALLY 1784, THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IN NEW YORK

                    STATE HAS BEEN UNDER AN INDEPENDENTLY-SELECTED BOARD OF REGENTS,

                    WHICH IS KIND OF INTERESTING.  IT'S RATHER UNIQUE IN -- IN THE NATION.  SO

                    IT'S -- IT'S NOT UNDER THE GOVERNOR'S CONTROL AND IT'S NOT REALLY UNDER THE

                    LEGISLATURE'S CONTROL ALTHOUGH, OBVIOUSLY, WE -- WE CAN PASS LAWS.  BUT

                    THERE'S BEEN THAT CONCEPT FOR ALMOST 300 YEARS, 200-AND-SOME YEARS,

                    THAT -- THAT WE TRUST OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM TO THE BOARD OF REGENTS AND

                    THEY, OF COURSE, ARE IN CHARGE OF SELECTING THE COMMISSIONER OF

                    EDUCATION AND OVERSEEING THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.  AND THEN UNDER

                    THEM, WE HAVE LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF INDEPENDENTLY-ELECTED SCHOOL

                    DISTRICTS ELECTED BY VOTERS AND -- AND RESIDENTS WITHIN THEIR SCHOOL.

                    WHY DO YOU THINK WE SHOULDN'T TRUST THIS TYPE OF EDUCATIONAL POLICY TO

                    THE CONSTITUTIONALLY-DESIGNATED ENTITY CHARGED WITH THAT RESPONSIBILITY?

                    IS IT YOUR VIEW THEY'RE NEGLECTING THEIR RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS AREA?

                    WHY WOULD WE STEP IN IN AN AREA WHERE WE NORMALLY EXERCISE A GREAT

                    DEAL OF DEFERENCE?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  WELL, I THINK WE DO TRY TO EXERCISE

                                         101



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    A GREAT DEAL OF DEFERENCE, BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE ARE

                    CIRCUMSTANCES THAT DICTATE THAT THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY STEP IN AND

                    PROVIDE GUIDELINES OR PARAMETERS, WE HAVE NOT HESITATED TO DO SO AND I

                    THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  ALONG THE SAME LINES, NONE OF US IN

                    THIS CHAMBER, CERTAINLY, WERE ELECTED CURRENTLY TO ANY SCHOOL BOARD,

                    BUT THERE ARE OTHER INDIVIDUALS IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT ARE HIGHLY

                    RESPECTED THAT HAVE BEEN ELECTED BY THE LOCAL RESIDENTS TO THE SCHOOL

                    BOARD.  SHOULDN'T THIS BE A LOCAL DECISION MADE BY LOCALLY-ELECTED

                    SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS WHOSE FOCUS IS WHAT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF

                    THAT SCHOOL?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  WELL, I THINK WE OFTEN TRY TO DEFER

                    TO THE LOCAL SCHOOL BOARDS, BUT IN THIS INSTANCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

                    TECHNOLOGY THAT MANY OF US REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND AND REQUIRES A

                    REALLY DEEP DIVE INTO HOW IT WORKS, WHAT THE POTENTIAL RISKS OF USING IT

                    ARE, WHAT THE -- WHAT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF IT IS.  AND I THINK IT WOULD BE

                    -- BEHOOVE US TO HAVE A STATEWIDE POLICY WHERE WE HAVE THE BODY

                    THAT'S IN CHARGE OF THESE DECISIONS TO DO THAT DEEP DIVE AND SET

                    GUIDELINES FOR ALL OF NEW YORK STATE SCHOOLS.  TO SET MINIMUM, FOR

                    EXAMPLE, ACCURACY CRITERIA, CRITERIA ON WHAT SHOULD -- WHO SHOULD HAVE

                    ACCESS TO THAT DATA, HOW SHOULD IT BE DISPOSED.  WHAT -- WHAT KINDS OF

                    INFORMATION CAN BE STORED.  SO THERE'S -- THERE'S ALL KINDS OF QUESTIONS

                    THAT ARISE WITH THIS KIND OF TECHNOLOGY, AND I THINK IT'S BEST TO HAVE -

                    JUST LIKE WE'RE PROVIDING GUIDANCE RIGHT NOW - A STRUCTURE FOR SCHOOLS

                    TO OPERATE WITHIN -- IN THE COVID ERA, WE SHOULD PROVIDE A STRUCTURE

                                         102



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    FOR SCHOOLS TO OPERATE WITHIN -- IF THEY PLAN ON USING THIS TECHNOLOGY, IF

                    THE SCHOOL EDUCATION DEPARTMENT EVEN THINKS IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO USE IT

                    IN THE FIRST PLACE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SINCE THIS BILL WAS INTRODUCED LAST

                    YEAR AND NOW IT'S BEEN REINTRODUCED THIS YEAR, HAS THE TIME FRAME FOR

                    THIS STUDY BEEN MOVED BACK A YEAR?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YES, IT HAS.  I BELIEVE IT HAS.  AND

                    IT'S ALSO CHANGED THE CRITERIA.  BEFORE IT WAS UNTIL -- UNTIL 2022 -- I

                    THINK IT WAS 2021, NOW IT'S UNTIL 2022 OR UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE

                    COMMISSIONER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO STUDY THAT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE

                    COMMISSIONER AND STATE EDUCATION IS VERY BUSY AT THIS MOMENT GIVEN

                    THE PANDEMIC.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW AS YOU CAN APPRECIATE, A LOT OF

                    OUR CONSTITUENTS, A LOT OF PARENTS, IN PARTICULAR, BUT ALSO SCHOOL BOARDS

                    ARE EXTRAORDINARILY CONCERNED ABOUT SCHOOL SAFETY, AND FOR GOOD

                    REASON.  BECAUSE PERIODICALLY WE HEAR HORRIFIC STORIES OF SCHOOLS

                    UNDERGOING JUST HORRIFIC SITUATIONS INVOLVING SCHOOL SAFETY OR SHOOTINGS

                    OR OTHER ACTS OF VIOLENCE.  SHOULDN'T WE ENCOURAGE THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS

                    TO LOOK AT EMERGING TECHNOLOGY AND DO EVERYTHING WITHIN THEIR POWER,

                    SUBJECT TO THEIR REASONABLE DISCRETION, TO PROTECT OUR -- OUR KIDS -- OUR

                    MOST VALUABLE RESOURCE, IF YOU WILL -- FROM DANGERS THAT WE MIGHT BE

                    ABLE TO IDENTIFY WITH THIS TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  SO, YES, OF COURSE.  I HAVE A -- I

                    HAVE A STUDENT MYSELF IN SCHOOL, AND OF COURSE WE ALL WANT TO KEEP OUR

                    CHILDREN SAFE.  THAT'S PARAMOUNT.  BUT WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE WE

                                         103



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    DO SO IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T COMPROMISE THEIR SAFETY IN OTHER WAYS.  FOR

                    EXAMPLE, BY USING A TECHNOLOGY THAT MIGHT HAVE FALSE POSITIVES, OR BY

                    USING A TECHNOLOGY THAT MIGHT COMPROMISE THEIR DATA SECURITY IN SOME

                    WAY.  I ALSO WANT TO MENTION THAT THE MONEY FOR -- THE MONEY FOR THIS

                    TECHNOLOGY HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN SOUGHT, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT IT'S

                    BEEN ACQUIRED, HAS COME UNDER THE SMART SCHOOLS BOND FUND ACT

                    WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED TO UPGRADE INFRASTRUCTURE AND IMPROVE

                    WIRELESS CONNECTIVITY AND PURCHASE THINGS LIKE TABLETS AND DEVICES TO

                    IMPROVE STUDENT LEARNING.  SOMETHING THAT'S BECOME ALL THE MORE

                    URGENT IN THIS ENVIRONMENT THAT WE'RE IN.  SO I THINK THAT WE HAVE AN

                    OBLIGATION AS GOOD STEWARDS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT

                    -- THAT MONEY IS BEING SPENT IN A WAY THAT GETS -- THE MONEY IS SPENT IN

                    A WAY THAT MAKES SURE THAT THE BENEFITS OF THE TECHNOLOGY BEING

                    ACQUIRED DON'T -- THAT THEY OUTWEIGH THE RISKS THAT MIGHT ACCOMPANY

                    THAT TECHNOLOGY.  SO I THINK IT'S COMMONSENSE TO PUT CHILDREN FIRST BY

                    USING THIS TECHNOLOGY, BY USING THIS -- I'M SORRY, IT'S COMMONSENSE TO

                    PUT CHILDREN FIRST BY ENSURING THAT OUR -- IN ENSURING THAT OUR TAX

                    DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT WISELY.  PARDON ME.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  YOU MENTIONED THE CONCERN THAT

                    THIS EQUIPMENT IS NOT A HUNDRED-PERCENT POSITIVE OR ACCURATE, THAT YOU

                    CAN HAVE A FALSE POSITIVE.  AND OF COURSE, AS YOU KNOW, THAT IS ALSO THE

                    CASE OFTEN WITH MEDICAL TESTS.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  I'M SORRY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WITH MEDICAL TESTS.  SO IF YOU'RE

                    TESTED FOR COVID, FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF THE TESTS WE KNOW WILL GIVE

                                         104



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    YOU A POSITIVE READING EVEN THOUGH YOU AREN'T ACTUALLY INFECTED.  IT'S A

                    FALSE POSITIVE.  AND THAT'S TRUE FOR ALMOST EVERY MEDICAL TEST.  WE STILL

                    USE THOSE MEDICAL TESTS, EVEN THOUGH THEY GIVE A FALSE POSITIVE BECAUSE

                    WE RECOGNIZE THAT THE DANGER OF A FALSE POSITIVE IS SO MUCH LOWER THAN

                    NOT MOVING FORWARD.  SO IN THIS CONTEXT, EVEN IF THE SYSTEM IS NOT A

                    HUNDRED-PERCENT RELIABLE, IF IT HAS THE SUBSTANTIAL RELIABILITY AND AS A

                    RESULT SAVES, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OF KIDS' LIVES BY CORRECTLY IDENTIFYING

                    A POTENTIAL THREAT, SHOULDN'T WE MOVE FORWARD WHILE AT THE SAME TIME

                    MITIGATING THE DAMAGES, IF YOU WILL, OR PROBLEMS WITH A FALSE POSITIVE?

                    I MEAN, WE COULD DEAL WITH A FALSE POSITIVE BY SAYING IF YOU'VE BEEN

                    POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED BY THE SYSTEM, WE HAVE A MECHANISM FOR YOU TO

                    ADDRESS THAT, YOU KNOW, FAIRLY AND QUICKLY, CONSISTENT WITH DUE

                    PROCESS.  SHOULDN'T WE TAKE THAT APPROACH, DEALING WITH THE FALSE

                    POSITIVES ON ONE HAND BUT STILL MAXIMIZING THE SAFETY OF OUR STUDENTS

                    BY MOVING FORWARD WITH A SYSTEM THAT, LIKE ANY OTHER SYSTEM, IS NOT A

                    HUNDRED-PERCENT RELIABLE?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  WELL, I THINK YOU'RE MAKING A FALSE

                    ASSUMPTION THAT THE FALSE POSITIVES ARE A RISK THAT WE'RE WILLING TO TAKE

                    BECAUSE IT WILL SAVE ALL THIS MANY LIVES.  AND I'M NOT SURE THAT WE

                    REALLY KNOW THAT TO BE TRUE.  I THINK THIS TECHNOLOGY IS SOMEWHAT

                    UNPROVEN AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW EFFECTIVE IT IS.  AND BY THE WAY, THIS

                    LEGISLATION WOULD IMPOSE A MORATORIUM FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS, DURING

                    WHICH TIME MOST OF THE CHILDREN, IF THEY EVEN DO GO TO SCHOOL, ARE

                    GOING TO BE WEARING FACE MASKS.  SO I QUESTION WHETHER THIS IS EVEN

                    GOING TO BE USEFUL IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS ANYWHERE AT LEAST IN THE

                                         105



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SHORT-TERM ANYWAY.  BUT I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT IF YOU'RE THE PARENT OF A

                    CHILD WHO HAS BEEN FALSELY IDENTIFIED, MISIDENTIFIED, I GUESS, UNDER THIS

                    TECHNOLOGY, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A RISK YOU'RE WILLING TO TAKE.  AND THERE

                    ARE POTENTIAL CIVIL RIGHTS IMPLICATIONS WHEN YOU HAVE TECHNOLOGY THAT

                    HAS BEEN SHOWN IN MANY INSTANCES TO HAVE A DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT

                    ON PEOPLE OF EITHER -- ON CHILDREN, ON PEOPLE OF COLOR, ON WOMEN.  SO I

                    -- I DO THINK IT'S A -- I -- I DON'T THINK IT'S A RISK WE CAN JUST SAY WE'RE

                    WILLING TO TAKE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, WHAT IS THE FALSE POSITIVE

                    RATE?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  SO, LET ME SEE.  SO JUST SOME

                    EXAMPLES OF STUDIES, IN 2018 A COALITION OF BLACK SCHOLARS PUBLISHED

                    RESEARCH WHERE THEY CONCLUDED THAT VARIOUS FACIAL RECOGNITION,

                    ALGORITHMS, MISCLASSIFIED BLACK WOMEN NEARLY 35 PERCENT OF THE TIME.

                    ANOTHER STUDY -- STUDY IN 2019 DONE BY MIT CONFIRMED THAT RACIAL BIAS

                    EXISTS WITH REGARD TO AMAZON'S FACIAL RECOGNITION SOFTWARE.  AND IN

                    2019, THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY ISSUED A REPORT WHERE

                    THEY CONCLUDED THAT DARKER SKIN POSES CHALLENGES FOR COMMERCIAL

                    FACIAL RECOGNITION.  I THINK THERE WERE ALSO OTHER STUDIES.  SO I THINK IT'S

                    NOT CLEAR HOW ACCURATE IT IS.  AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THIS BILL

                    SEEKS TO DO IS HAVE THE COMMISSIONER TELL SCHOOL DISTRICTS, OKAY, IF YOU

                    ARE GOING TO USE THIS TECHNOLOGY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS THRESHOLD LEVEL

                    OF ACCURACY BEFORE YOU CAN ACQUIRE IT AND USE IT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I FOUND THAT DATA OBVIOUSLY OF GREAT

                    CONCERN.  AND AS YOU NOTED, IT WAS PARTICULARLY UNRELIABLE IDENTIFYING

                                         106



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PEOPLE OF COLOR.  BUT AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TREMENDOUS DIVERSITY

                    WITHIN THE STATE -- WITHIN THE STATE, INCLUDING MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS

                    WHERE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE EXTRAORDINARILY SMALL.  I

                    MEAN, THERE WAS NO ONE OF COLOR IN MY GRADUATING CLASS OR IN MY ENTIRE

                    HIGH SCHOOL WHEN I GRADUATED.  AND THAT'S NOT UNCOMMON UPSTATE.

                    RATHER THAN HAVE A ONE-SIZE-FIT-ALL MANDATED BAN, WOULDN'T A BETTER

                    APPROACH BE A MORE NUANCED APPROACH THAT RECOGNIZES THAT FALSE

                    POSITIVES ARE HIGHER UNDER SOME CIRCUMSTANCES AND VERY LOW UNDER

                    OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES AND ALLOW THE TECHNOLOGY TO PROCEED TO PROTECT

                    OUR KIDS WHERE THE SYSTEM SEEMS TO BE MOST ACCURATE?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  NO, BECAUSE ONLY -- IF YOU ONLY

                    HAVE FIVE STUDENTS OF COLOR IN A SCHOOL THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE.  IF THAT

                    STUDENT IS MISIDENTIFIED AS SOMEBODY WHO'S NOT ALLOWED TO COME ON

                    CAMPUS AND SOMEHOW SUFFERS SOME CONSEQUENCE AS A RESULT OF THAT, IT'S

                    NOT -- IT'S NOT -- IT DOESN'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP TO THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS

                    IN THE SCHOOL THAT ARE OF COLOR, IT'S ANY STUDENTS OF COLOR MIGHT BE

                    MISIDENTIFIED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MS. WALLACE.  I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I THINK THAT THE MOST HORRIFIC THING

                    THAT CAN EVER HAPPEN TO A PARENT IS TO HEAR IN THE NEWS OR GET A PHONE

                    CALL THAT THERE'S A SHOOTING AT YOUR CHILD'S SCHOOL OR THAT THERE'S SOME

                                         107



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    LEVEL OF VIOLENCE THAT THREATENS THE VERY LIFE OF YOUR CHILD.  AND OUR

                    SCHOOLS WRESTLE WITH THAT HORRIFIC CHALLENGE OF HOW TO MAXIMIZE THE

                    SAFETY OF THEIR STUDENTS WITHIN THE RESOURCES THEY HAVE.  AND OUR

                    EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, COMPOSED OF OUR EXPERTS, WRESTLE WITH THE

                    SAME ISSUE.  AND WE SHOULD RESPECT THE FACT THAT THE BOARD OF REGENTS

                    IS CHALLENGED WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY OF BALANCING THOSE ISSUES.  AND

                    WE SHOULD RESPECT THE FACT THAT OUR STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, NOT

                    THE STATE LEGISLATURE, IS COMPOSED OF EXPERTS THAT LOOK AT THESE ISSUES

                    ALL THE TIME.  AND WE SHOULD RESPECT THE FACT THAT THE INDIVIDUAL SCHOOL

                    DISTRICTS, HEADED UP BY A SCHOOL BOARD THAT'S ELECTED BY THE RESIDENTS OF

                    THAT DISTRICT, HEADED UP BY HIGHLY-EDUCATED AND SKILLED

                    SUPERINTENDENTS, ARE IN THE BEST POSITION TO DECIDE HOW TO BEST PROTECT

                    THEIR STUDENTS.  SO I ACKNOWLEDGE MY COLLEAGUE'S CONCERN THAT THIS IS

                    NOT ACCURATE, ESPECIALLY IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS.  BUT I DON'T THINK WE

                    SHOULD BAN A TECHNOLOGY THAT COULD SAVE LIVES, AND I THINK WE SHOULD

                    RESPECT THE EXPERTISE AND RESPONSIBILITY OF OTHERS WHO ARE CHARGED WITH

                    THIS RESPONSIBILITY.

                                 THANK YOU, AND AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DIPIETRO.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  ARE WE ON NOW?  HELLO?

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YOUR CLOCK IS

                    RUNNING, SIR.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  CAN YOU HEAR ME?  I DIDN'T -- I

                                         108



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ASKED THAT THREE TIMES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YES.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  I DIDN'T KNOW IF I WAS -- ALL RIGHT.

                    WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALLACE?

                                 MR. REILLY.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  GO AHEAD, PROCEED.

                                 MR. REILLY:  MR. DIPIETRO IS BEING HEARD.  CAN YOU

                    HEAR HIM?  HE'S --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. REILLY, YOU'RE ON

                    AT THE MOMENT.

                                 MR. REILLY:  I'M NOT --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WE'LL GET BACK TO MR.

                    DIPIETRO.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY, GREAT.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YES, I WILL YIELD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU.  I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT

                    THE, I GUESS, THE LOCKPORT SCHOOL DISTRICT.  I KNOW THAT THERE -- THERE

                    WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT IT BEING INTRODUCED THERE.  DO YOU KNOW IF

                    THERE WAS ANY REMEDIATION IN REGARDS TO THE IMPLEMENTATION AND

                    REVIEW BY THE NEW YORK STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT?

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MS. WALLACE:  SO, I KNOW THAT THE BETTER PART OF

                    LAST YEAR THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT WENT BACK AND FORTH WITH THE

                    SCHOOL DISTRICT, TRYING TO ADDRESS SOME CONCERNS THAT WERE BEING RAISED

                    WITH WHETHER THE STUDENT DATA WAS ADEQUATELY PROTECTED, WHO WOULD

                    BE IN THE DATABASE, AND WHO WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO IT AND ALL THE

                    QUESTIONS THAT THIS BILL RAISES.  I BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN -- THEY'RE

                    STILL SORT OF SOMEWHAT UNRESOLVED ON THAT ISSUE.  STATE EDUCATION HAD

                    HAS SAID THAT LOCKPORT CAN USE IT UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.  RIGHT

                    NOW THERE'S ACTUALLY A LAWSUIT PENDING WHERE THE NEW YORK CIVIL

                    LIBERTIES UNION HAS BROUGHT A LAWSUIT ALLEGING THAT THE USE OF THE

                    TECHNOLOGY VIOLATES CIVIL RIGHTS, AMONG OTHER THINGS.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE

                    CLARIFICATION BY THE NEW YORK STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT WAS THAT

                    THE STUDENTS WOULD NOT BE SUBJECTED TO THE FACIAL RECOGNITION.  DO YOU

                    -- DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING FURTHER ON THAT?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YEAH.  FOR THE TIME BEING, I

                    BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE.  BUT THERE'S NOTHING IN THE LAW CURRENTLY

                    PROHIBITING ANOTHER SCHOOL DISTRICT FROM ALLOWING THEIR -- FROM

                    ACQUIRING THIS, PURCHASING THIS, USING IT AND INCLUDING STUDENTS IN THE

                    DATABASE.  THERE'S NO GUIDELINES OR REGULATIONS RIGHT NOW.  AND I ALSO

                    WOULD SAY THAT WITH REGARD TO LOCKPORT, THEY PLAN TO CONTINUE -- THEY

                    PLAN TO FULLY USE THIS IN THE FUTURE TO INCLUDE STUDENTS.  SO I THINK THIS

                    IS AN ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO RESOLVE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

                                 MR. REILLY:  BUT IT -- DO -- DO YOU KNOW IF THE NEW

                    YORK STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT ACTUALLY ISSUED AND LOOKED AT THEIR

                                         110



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    REVISED GUIDANCE AND APPROVED IT?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  I'M -- I'M SORRY, CAN YOU -- I'M NOT

                    SURE WHAT YOU'RE ASKING.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THE LOCKPORT SCHOOL DISTRICT.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THEY -- THEY WERE GOING BACK AND

                    FORTH WITH THE NEW YORK STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT --

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  -- ON WHETHER TO -- HOW THEY CAN

                    CORRECT SOME OF THE CONCERNS.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY --

                    THE NEW YORK STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT ASKED THEM TO ISSUE NEW

                    GUIDELINES, AND THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE NEW YORK STATE EDUCATION

                    DEPARTMENT.  SO THEY, IN ESSENCE, WOULD BE SETTING A PROTOCOL FOR OTHER

                    DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT NEW YORK STATE.  WOULD YOU -- WOULD YOU THINK

                    THAT MAY BE (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  SO THE -- LOCKPORT WENT BACK AND

                    FORTH, AS I SAID, WITH THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT SPECIFICALLY

                    TALKING ABOUT THE PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY THAT -- THAT WAS BEING USED IN

                    LOCKPORT.  SO THERE ARE NO STATEWIDE GUIDELINES TO ADDRESS WHAT WOULD

                    HAPPEN IN THE NEXT INSTANCE WITH THE NEXT SCHOOL DISTRICT.  AND I THINK

                    RATHER THAN HAVE PIECEMEAL DISCUSSIONS, WE SHOULD HAVE A DEEP DIVE,

                    THOUGHTFUL STATEWIDE UNIFORM POLICY THAT APPLIES TO SCHOOL DISTRICTS

                    FROM LONG ISLAND TO NIAGARA FALLS.

                                         111



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. REILLY:  WELL, I -- I APPRECIATE THAT, AND I SAY

                    THAT ABOUT MANY PIECES OF LEGISLATION WE DISCUSS HERE.  SO I DEFINITELY

                    AGREE WITH YOU THAT WE SHOULD ACTUALLY HAVE MORE DETAILED

                    CONVERSATIONS.  THE ONE PART ABOUT THIS WITH THE NEW YORK STATE

                    EDUCATION DEPARTMENT AND THE FACIAL RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY, I THINK

                    WE CAN LOOK AT IT AS IF IT'S THE COMMISSIONER ISSUING DECISIONS ON

                    APPEALS BY STUDENTS, FAMILIES AND DISTRICTS.  SO THIS WOULD BE -- THE

                    LOCKPORT SCHOOL DISTRICT, ACTUALLY, IN CONSULTATION WITH THE NEW YORK

                    STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT AND, IN ESSENCE, THE COMMISSIONER, AND

                    THE COMMISSIONER ISSUED THE GUIDANCE.  SO THAT GUIDANCE WOULD

                    MANDATE ALL OTHER SCHOOL DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE TO COMPLY AND

                    ACTUALLY FIT THE CRITERIA UNDER THAT GUIDANCE NOW.  DO YOU THINK THAT

                    THAT WOULD BE SUFFICED BY THEIR GUIDANCE BEING THAT LEADING ISSUE FOR

                    FUTURE DISTRICTS?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  SO, I -- I DON'T THINK THAT THEY HAVE

                    ISSUED GUIDANCE THAT APPLIES TO ALL SCHOOL DISTRICTS STATEWIDE.  AND

                    MORE IMPORTANTLY, I KNOW THAT THEY HAVEN'T DONE THE KIND OF STUDY THAT

                    THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE BY ASKING THERE TO BE PUBLIC HEARINGS, BY

                    CONSULTING EXPERTS IN THE FIELD, INCLUDING, AS I SAID BEFORE, EXPERTS IN

                    PRIVACY AND DATA PRIVACY AND TECHNOLOGY.  EXPERTS IN SCHOOL SAFETY,

                    PARENTS, TEACHERS.  SO I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT IS I DON'T THINK THAT

                    THERE ARE STATEWIDE GUIDELINES THAT APPLY TO EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT.  IT

                    WAS A JUST SORT OF A BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND THE

                    -- SED.  SO RATHER THAN HAVE THAT HAPPEN EVERY SINGLE TIME THE SCHOOL

                    WANTS TO ACQUIRE AND USE THIS TECHNOLOGY, WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT THIS

                                         112



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ISSUE DEEPLY, ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW WHEN, AS I SAID, EVERYONE'S GOING TO

                    BE WEARING FACE MASKS IF THE STUDENTS ARE EVEN IN SCHOOL.  SO I'M NOT

                    SURE WHY A MORATORIUM AT THIS POINT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.  AND

                    BY THE WAY, AS I MENTIONED, THE LOCKPORT SCHOOL DISTRICT IS CURRENTLY

                    IN LITIGATION OVER THIS, WHERE THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF MONEY SPENT

                    ON LAWYER FEES THAT WOULD BE BETTER SERVED SPENT ON PPE AND CLEANING

                    PROTOCOLS AND INCREASED TRANSPORTATION.  ALL THE THINGS WE'RE GOING TO

                    NEED THIS MONEY FOR.  SO RATHER THAN HAVE ALL THESE LITTLE SCHOOL

                    DISTRICTS ENGAGE IN LITIGATION, IF SOME ORGANIZATION OR PARENT DOESN'T

                    THINK THAT THE DISTRICT ADEQUATELY IS PROTECTING THEIR STUDENTS' DATA OR

                    INTERESTS, WHY DON'T WE JUST GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT THIS STATEWIDE,

                    ESPECIALLY AT THIS POINT, AND COME UP WITH A COMPREHENSIVE, THOUGHTFUL

                    POLICY?

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO, MANY TIMES WE DISCUSSED IN THIS

                    CHAMBER AND IN THE LEGISLATURE ALL TOGETHER, DEMONSTRATION PROGRAMS

                    WITH CAMERAS, SUCH AS SCHOOL BUS ARM CAMERAS, SPEED CAMERAS.  HOW

                    MANY -- HOW MANY PROJECTS IN DISTRICTS IN NEW YORK STATE ARE WE

                    CURRENTLY AWARE OF THAT WERE APPROVED FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS

                    FACIAL RECOGNITION?  AND IF IT'S, SAY, ONE OR TWO DISTRICTS, WHAT IF WE USE

                    THOSE AS A MODEL TO ACTUALLY EVALUATE AND PROVIDE GUIDANCE FOR THIS

                    STUDY THAT WE'RE CALLING FOR SO IT WOULD, IN ESSENCE, BE A DEMONSTRATION

                    PROGRAM WHICH WE CAN USE THAT INFORMATION FOR FUTURE DISTRICTS, FOR OUR

                    FUTURE IMPLEMENTATION?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT WE

                    SHOULD BE USING OUR STUDENTS AS GUINEA PIGS WITHOUT HAVING A

                                         113



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THOUGHTFUL, DEEP DIVE STUDY OF THIS ISSUE FIRST.

                                 MR. REILLY:  WELL, I -- I AGREE WITH YOU THAT NOT --

                    IT'S GUINEA PIGS, BUT LOCKPORT ALREADY ENGAGED WITH THE NEW YORK

                    STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, ENSURING THAT ONLY NON-STUDENTS WOULD BE

                    -- WOULD -- THE TECHNOLOGY WOULD BE USED ON ENTERING A SCHOOL

                    BUILDING.  IF THOSE PROTOCOLS ARE IN PLACE FOR A DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM,

                    I THINK THAT'S A SUFFICIENT SAFEGUARD, POTENTIALLY, SINCE WE'VE USED THEM

                    IN OTHER TECHNOLOGY ADVANCEMENTS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  SO, I'M -- I'M SORRY.  LOCKPORT IS

                    NOT USING IT ON STUDENTS RIGHT NOW.  SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT WE SHOULD

                    ALLOW THEM TO BE USED ON STUDENTS OR NOT?  BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT

                    ALLOWED TO USE IT ON STUDENTS RIGHT NOW.

                                 MR. REILLY:  NO, THAT -- THAT'S MY POINT, THAT THEY

                    ENTERED INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE NEW YORK STATE EDUCATION

                    DEPARTMENT AFTER REVIEWING THEIR PROTOCOLS, AND THE STUDENTS ARE NOT

                    PART OF THE FACIAL RECOGNITION.  SO BY -- THIS LEGISLATION WOULD PREVENT

                    THEM FROM USING IT ALL TOGETHER, BUT WE COULD USE THEM AS -- USE THAT --

                    THE LOCKPORT SCHOOL DISTRICT AS THE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM TO HELP

                    WITH THE STUDY.  SO, THEREFORE, THE TECHNOLOGY IS ACTUALLY IN PRACTICE

                    BEING USED, NOT ON STUDENTS, BUT ON MAYBE ADULTS THAT COULD BE A THREAT

                    TO THE SCHOOL COMMUNITY, THAT'S -- THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK WOULD

                    HELP ACTUALLY DEVELOP A PROTOCOL STATEWIDE.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  WELL, THIS BILL ISN'T REALLY ABOUT ONE

                    SPECIFIC SCHOOL DISTRICT.  AND LOCKPORT ITSELF SAYS THAT THE TECHNOLOGY

                    IS REALLY NOT THAT USEFUL IF THEY CAN'T FULLY USE IT TO INCLUDE STUDENTS,

                                         114



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WHICH THEY -- WHICH THEY CURRENTLY ARE ADVOCATING TO DO.  SO, YOU

                    KNOW, JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN'T USE IT RIGHT NOW DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD

                    LET THEM GO AHEAD AND CONTINUE USING IT AS THEY ARE WHEN WE KNOW

                    THEY'RE ALSO ADVOCATING TO USE IT FOR STUDENTS.  SO THIS IS RAISING THE

                    CONCERN THAT I'VE BEEN DISCUSSING, WHICH IS WE NEED TO HAVE A STUDY TO

                    LOOK AT.  WHAT IS THIS TECHNOLOGY GOING TO BE USED FOR, WHO'S GOING TO

                    HAVE ACCESS TO IT, WHAT SAFETY PROTOCOLS ARE IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT

                    THE STUDENTS' DATA WON'T BE COMPROMISED.  IS IT GOING TO BE USED FOR

                    SAFETY OR FOR DISCIPLINE OF STUDENTS OR BOTH?  THERE'S LOTS OF

                    UNANSWERED QUESTIONS.  AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AT ISSUE, LOCKPORT, IS

                    JUST ONE OF MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAT WANT TO HAVE THIS TECHNOLOGY.

                    AND SO I THINK IT BEHOOVES US TO RIGHT NOW LOOK AT IT AND JUST MAKE A

                    DECISION FIRST BEFORE WE GO AHEAD AND ALLOW IT TO BE USED AND REGRET IT

                    IN THE FUTURE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  SO DO WE KNOW -- DO WE HAVE

                    A NUMBER OF HOW MANY DISTRICTS ACTUALLY HAVE IT IMPLEMENTED?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  I DO NOT.  I THINK LOCKPORT IS THE

                    FIRST ONE IN THE STATE TO BEGIN TO USE IT.  BUT I KNOW THERE WERE MANY

                    REQUESTS FOR SMART SCHOOLS FUND MONEY BEFORE -- WHEN THIS -- WHEN

                    THIS LEGISLATION WAS FIRST INTRODUCED.  AND IT WAS INTRODUCED TO SAY,

                    LISTEN, THERE'S MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT DIFFERENT SCHOOL DISTRICTS ACROSS

                    THE STATE ARE SEEKING, AND BEFORE WE GO AHEAD AND SPEND THAT MILLIONS

                    OF DOLLARS -- WHICH, AS I SAID BEFORE, WAS INTENDED TO UPGRADE

                    INFRASTRUCTURE, ACQUIRE TABLETS, ALL THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY NEED THE

                    MONEY FOR RIGHT NOW -- LET'S MAKE SURE THAT THE BENEFITS THAT ARE BEING

                                         115



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ADVOCATED THAT -- THAT -- THAT ARE BEING PURPORTED BY THE PEOPLE WHO

                    WANT TO SELL THIS TECHNOLOGY, THAT THOSE BENEFITS ACTUALLY OUTWEIGH

                    SOME OF THE RISKS THAT I THINK ARE FORESEEABLE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  SO, WHEN -- WHEN THE SMART

                    SCHOOL BOND ACT, BEFORE I ENTERED THE ASSEMBLY, I WAS A -- WHEN I

                    WAS A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY EDUCATION COUNCIL SCHOOL BOARD FOR

                    STATEN ISLAND, THEY ACTUALLY PUT OUT -- THE NEW YORK STATE EDUCATION

                    DEPARTMENT PUT OUT REQUESTS FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON IT, AND WE WERE

                    SUCCESSFUL IN ACTUALLY GETTING SCHOOL SAFETY AS PART OF THE SMART SCHOOL

                    BOND ACT.  ORIGINALLY, THAT WASN'T GOING TO BE PART OF THAT -- THE -- THE

                    THINGS THAT ARE ELIGIBLE.  SO I THINK HAVING THAT TECHNOLOGY COULD

                    ACTUALLY HELP INCREASE SECURITY FOR OUR SCHOOLS AND SAFETY FOR OUR

                    STUDENTS.  BUT THE ONE KEY THING THAT I -- I WOULD LIKE TO -- TO MENTION

                    AND GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON IS, DO YOU THINK THAT HAVING MAYBE ONE PILOT

                    SCHOOL DISTRICT AS A DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM LIKE WE DO IN OTHER ASPECTS

                    OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND SPEED CAMERAS AND BUS CAMERAS, DO YOU THINK

                    HAVING ONE SCHOOL DISTRICT AS A MODEL FOR AN IMPLEMENTATION FOR A

                    DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM COULD HELP IN DEVELOPING A POLICY STATEWIDE?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  I THINK BEFORE WE START USING ONE AS

                    A DEMONSTRATION POLICY WE SHOULD HAVE THE ANSWERS TO SOME OF THE

                    QUESTIONS THAT I'VE RAISED, AND WE SHOULD HAVE A CONSULTATION WITH

                    EXPERTS.  YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT IS -- MAYBE AFTER A DEEP DIVE IS DONE

                    THERE IS A CONSENSUS THAT IT MAKES SENSE TO USE THIS TECHNOLOGY UNDER

                    X, Y AND Z CIRCUMSTANCES, AND THEN WE CAN DO THE PILOT PROGRAM.  BUT

                    I THINK WE'RE PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE BY JUST LET'S GO AHEAD AND

                                         116



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    USE IT AND SEE HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR THESE -- THESE POOR KIDS WHO ARE

                    WHAT I BELIEVE ARE BIG GUINEA PIGS OF USING IT.

                                 MR. REILLY:  UNDERSTOOD.  SO, ONE FINAL QUESTION.

                    WAS THERE ANY CONSULTATION WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE?  AFTER THEY

                    ROLLED OUT CASHLESS TOLLING THROUGHOUT NEW YORK STATE, PART OF THE

                    CASHLESS TOLLING WAS ACTUAL FACIAL RECOGNITION AT OUR TOLLS.  DID WE HAVE

                    ANY -- DID YOU HAVE ANY CONSULTATION WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE ON

                    HOW THEY IMPLEMENTED SOME OF THE PROTOCOLS THEY HAVE?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  NO.  THIS IS ABOUT STUDENTS IN

                    USING THIS TECHNOLOGY IN SCHOOLS.  THE BILL WAS VERY MUCH TAILORED TO

                    JUST COVER USING FACIAL RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY ON STUDENTS IN SCHOOLS.

                                 MR. REILLY:  NO, NO.  I FULLY -- I FULLY UNDERSTAND

                    THAT.  I -- I KNOW THAT IT'S JUST FOR STUDENTS IN SCHOOLS.  BUT I'M TALKING

                    ABOUT THE GENERAL TECHNOLOGY.  BECAUSE HAVING SOME FEEDBACK WITH

                    THE FACIAL RECOGNITION AT THE -- AT THE -- WITH THE CASHLESS TOLL SYSTEM

                    MAY ACTUALLY HELP BECAUSE IT CAN PROVIDE DATA THAT WE MAY SAY, WELL,

                    THIS IS NO GOOD AT ALL.  SO I'M HOPING THAT -- YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD ASK

                    FOR SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY ENGAGED IN THE OPERATION AT THIS TIME.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  WELL, I'M SURE WHEN WE HAVE THE

                    STUDY, THE INDIVIDUALS WHO TESTIFY ABOUT THE USE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY AND

                    THE ACCURACY WOULD PRESUMABLY INCLUDE THAT INFORMATION IN THERE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU SO MUCH.  I APPRECIATE

                    YOUR TIME.  THANK YOU, MS. WALLACE.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DIPIETRO.

                                         117



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  YES, I WILL YIELD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  WHEN YOU

                    WERE TALKING TO ASSEMBLYMEMBER GOODELL YOU MADE A COMMENT AND I

                    HAD -- I RECEIVED A COUPLE OF TEXTS AND THAT'S -- COULD YOU JUST CLARIFY?

                    MAYBE I HEARD YOU WRONG.  YOU MADE A COMMENT THAT YOU FORESEE IN

                    THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, WAS IT CHILDREN WEARING MASKS?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  WELL, I -- I BELIEVE THAT SOME

                    SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE PUTTING -- I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, BUT I --

                    I -- I EXPECT A LOT OF SCHOOLS, WHEN THE STUDENTS GO BACK, WE'LL BE

                    REQUIRING STUDENTS TO WEAR MASKS IN SCHOOL.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  DO YOU HAVE ANY -- I'VE TALKED TO

                    DR. TURKOVICH, WHO'S THE HEAD OF OISHEI CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL IN

                    BUFFALO; DR. CARLONE, WHO WAS -- WHO WAS -- WHO WAS THE CHIEF

                    MEDICAL OFFICER OVER AT SHEEHAN MEMORIAL, WHO'S RETIRED.  A NUMBER

                    OF DOCTORS FEEL THAT KIDS -- NO KIDS SHOULD BE WEARING MASKS

                    WHATSOEVER.  THEY'RE NOT SUSCEPTIBLE, NOR DO THEY VERY, VERY RARELY

                    TRANSMIT IT.  DR. TURKOVICH SAID LAST WEEKEND ON MY RADIO SHOW THAT

                    ONLY -- THEY'VE HAD 16 CHILDREN SINCE JANUARY BE INFECTED AND BE IN THE

                    HOSPITAL.  OUT OF THOSE 16, TEN WERE RELEASED ON THE SAME DAY BECAUSE

                    THEY WERE MILD SYMPTOMS, ASYMPTOMATIC.  TWO WERE INFANTS, AND THAT

                    WAS A DIFFERENT CAUSE.  IT WASN'T COVID.  AND THE OTHER FOUR WERE IN

                    THEIR TEENS AND WERE ALL FINE.  SO I'M JUST SAYING, WHERE -- JUST -- COULD

                    YOU TELL ME WHERE YOU GOT YOUR EXPERTISE THAT SAYS CHILDREN FOR THE

                                         118



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    NEXT TWO YEARS MIGHT BE WEARING MASKS?

                                 MS. WALLACE:  WELL, LET ME JUST CLARIFY AND SAY

                    WHAT I WAS SAYING IS THAT WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC AND ONE

                    OF THE THINGS THAT HEALTH CARE EXPERTS HAVE UNIFORMLY SAID IS THAT MASKS

                    HELP STOP THE SPREAD.  SO, TO THE EXTENT THAT A SCHOOL DISTRICT SUGGESTS,

                    AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANY HAVE MADE THIS DECISION YET, THAT STUDENTS

                    SHOULD BE WEARING MASKS WHEN THEY RETURN TO SCHOOL, THAT SCHOOL

                    DISTRICT, THIS TECHNOLOGY WOULD HAVE VERY LITTLE ABILITY TO BE ACCURATE IF

                    THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.  BUT THAT WAS JUST AN ASIDE COMMENT ON THE NEED

                    FOR THIS LEGISLATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.  SO, I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO A

                    DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER STUDENTS ARE OR AREN'T GOING TO BE WEARING MASKS,

                    BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT, THERE IS STILL A NEED FOR THIS LEGISLATION.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  OKAY, WELL I -- NO, THAT JUST -- THAT

                    COMMENT, AS FLIPPANT AS IT MIGHT'VE BEEN, AN UNMEANT BY YOURSELF DID

                    -- DID CAUSE A LITTLE STORM AND SO, I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT

                    THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WERE A LITTLE -- THAT WERE LISTENING TO THAT AND I

                    JUST WANTED TO GET A CLARIFICATION.  SO, THAT WAS IT.  THAT'S ALL I HAD.

                    THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 245.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                                         119



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CAUCUS IS GENERALLY IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS; HOWEVER, IF AN

                    INDIVIDUAL MEMBER WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, PLEASE

                    CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. HUNTER.

                                 MS. HUNTER:  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO VOTE NO, CONTACT THE MAJORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. WALLACE TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  AS I SAID, THIS

                    LEGISLATION ASKS THE COMMISSIONER TO STUDY THE ISSUE OF USING FACIAL

                    RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY AND BIOMETRIC IDENTIFYING TECHNOLOGY IN PUBLIC

                    AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND DETERMINE WHETHER AND IN WHAT -- UNDER WHAT

                    CIRCUMSTANCES THE TECHNOLOGY SHOULD BE USED IN SCHOOLS.  IT ASKS FOR A

                    MORATORIUM, NOT A BAN, PENDING THE OPPORTUNITY TO STUDY THAT, AND

                    REQUIRES THAT THE COMMISSIONER CONSULT WITH EXPERTS IN THE FIELD AND

                    THE PUBLIC BEFORE ISSUING THAT REPORT.  AS I SAID EARLIER, THIS LEGISLATION

                    WAS INSPIRED BY REPORTS THAT MILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS WERE BEING

                                         120



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SPENT TO ACQUIRE TECHNOLOGY WITH NO REGULATIONS OR GUIDELINES AND WITH

                    NO DISCUSSION AT THE STATE LEVEL AS TO WHETHER IT WAS EVEN A GOOD IDEA

                    TO DO SO.

                                 WE ALL WANT TO KEEP STUDENTS SAFE, BUT IN OUR ZEAL TO

                    DO SO, WE MUST ENSURE THAT WE ARE NOT COMPROMISING THEIR SAFETY IN

                    OTHER WAYS, FOR EXAMPLE, BY HAVING -- INVITING FALSE POSITIVES OR

                    INVITING BREECHES OF THEIR BIOMETRIC DATA.  THIS TECHNOLOGY IS NEW, ITS

                    ACCURACY IS UNCLEAR AND IT IS EXPENSIVE TO ACQUIRE AND MAINTAIN, AND, AS

                    LEGISLATORS, WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF OUR TAXPAYER

                    DOLLARS.  BEFORE SPENDING THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY

                    WOULD ENTAIL, WE SHOULD DETERMINE WHETHER THE BENEFITS OF ACQUIRING IT

                    OUTWEIGH THE RISKS OF DOING SO.  I THINK IT IS COMMON SENSE LEGISLATION

                    THAT PUTS CHILDREN FIRST AND ENSURES THAT TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE BEING

                    SPENT WISELY.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND MY COLLEAGUES FOR

                    SUPPORTING THIS LEGISLATION.  I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALLACE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR GIVING ME

                    THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR OF THIS

                    LEGISLATION.  WE'VE SEEN TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES IN A VARIETY OF FIELDS,

                    THEY ARE INTERESTED IN MAKING MONEY.  THE -- THEIR ABILITY TO PROTECT

                    INFORMATION SEEMS LESS THAN IDEAL AND WHEN IT COMES TO YOUNG PEOPLE,

                    I DON'T BUY INTO THE NOTION THAT WE GO DOWN THIS PATH BECAUSE THERE IS A

                    PILOT IN ONE PLACE.  I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW A GREAT DEAL MORE BEFORE

                                         121



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WE EMBARK ON THIS.  AND I THINK THAT THE APPROACH THAT THE SPONSOR HAS

                    TAKEN IN THIS IS APPROPRIATE.  IT IS WORKING WITH OUR STATE EDUCATION

                    DEPARTMENT.  WE DON'T ENDLESSLY DEFER TO THEM, WE WORK WITH THEM

                    AND IT IS A HAND-IN-GLOVE SITUATION WHERE WE GIVE THEM ENCOURAGEMENT

                    TO DO A STUDY AND TO EXPLORE ALL OF THE ASPECTS WITH THOSE WHO ARE

                    KNOWLEDGEABLE IN THE AREA, BUT MANY WHO MAY NOT BE DIRECTLY

                    BENEFITTING COMMERCIALLY FROM IT.  SO WE'VE SEEN TOO MANY BREACHES OF

                    PERSONAL DATA AND GOING FORWARD, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE

                    A BETTER UNDERSTANDING.  I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING REPUBLICANS IN THE NEGATIVE -- IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS, I

                    APOLOGIZE.  THE REPUBLICANS ARE VOTING YES IN SUPPORT OF THIS BILL:  MR.

                    ASHBY, MR. BARCLAY, MR. DESTEFANO, MR. GARBARINO, MR. MILLER, MS.

                    MILLER, MR. MONTESANO, MR. RAIA -- OR MR. RA - MR. RAIA A FEW YEARS

                    AGO WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR THIS --

                                 (LAUGHER)

                                 -- BUT MR. RA THIS YEAR IS VOTING FOR IT - MR. SALKA, MR.

                    SCHMITT AND MR. STECK.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                         122



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MS. HUNTER.

                                 MS. HUNTER:  MR. SPEAKER, WE'RE GOING TO BE

                    TAKING UP THE FOLLOWING FOUR BILLS IN THIS ORDER:  NO. 247, COOK; NO.

                    249, MEMBER GOTTFRIED; NO. 255, MEMBER STERN AND NO. 267,

                    MEMBER PAULIN.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06884, CALENDAR NO.

                    247, COOK, ORTIZ, ZEBROWSKI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING PERSONS OFFERING WEIGHT LOSS SERVICES TO

                    PROVIDE NOTICE OF CERTAIN RISKS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MS.

                    WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO VERY BRIEFLY I JUST WANTED TO WALK

                    MY COLLEAGUES THROUGH THIS BILL, WHICH HAS BEEN AROUND, FUN FACT, SINCE

                    1999.  THIS BILL WOULD ADD A SECTION TO THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW

                    WHICH WOULD PROVIDE THAT ANY PERSON WHO OFFERS WEIGHT LOSS SERVICES

                    OR WEIGHT LOSS SERVICES AND PRODUCTS BY MEANS OF SELLING SUCH SERVICES

                    OR PRODUCTS TO THE PUBLIC, THEY WOULD HAVE TO POST A CONSPICUOUS

                    NOTICE PROVIDING SUCH SERVICE IN WRITING -- SUCH NOTICE IN WRITING TO

                    INDIVIDUALS PRIOR TO THE PURCHASE OF GOODS OR SERVICES.  THIS NOTICE

                    WOULD HAVE TO ADVISE PEOPLE THAT RAPID WEIGHT LOSS MAY CAUSE SERIOUS

                                         123



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    HEALTH PROBLEMS, THEY SHOULD CONSULT THEIR PHYSICIAN PRIOR TO STARTING A

                    WEIGHT LOSS PROGRAM, THAT LONG-TERM WEIGHT CONTROL IS THE SAFEST AND

                    MOST IMPORTANT GOAL OF ANY DIET PROGRAM, THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO

                    KNOW THE PRICE OF ANY TREATMENT, INCLUDING THE PRICE OF ANY PRODUCTS,

                    EXTRA PRODUCTS OR SERVICES, AND THAT THEY SHOULD ASK ABOUT ANY POTENTIAL

                    HEALTH RISKS OF THE PROGRAM OR PRODUCT AND ITS NUTRITIONAL CONTENT.  BUT,

                    THESE PROVISIONS WOULD NOT APPLY TO RETAIL STORES, DIRECT SELLERS OR

                    PHARMACIES UNLESS SUCH BUSINESSES OFFER BOTH WEIGHT LOSS SERVICES AND

                    WEIGHT LOSS PRODUCTS.

                                 AND THEN ALSO, THE BILL WOULD MAKE IT A DECEPTIVE ACT

                    OR PRACTICE TO MISREPRESENT THE POTENTIAL HEALTH RISKS, ET CETERA, OF -- OF

                    THESE PRODUCTS.  AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL COULD BRING A SPECIAL

                    PROCEEDING TO ENJOIN ANY DECEPTIVE ACT, AND COULD OBTAIN A CIVIL

                    PENALTY NOT EXCEEDING $1,000.

                                 SO, I WOULD JUST POINT OUT FOR MY COLLEAGUES THAT THERE

                    IS NO FEDERAL - TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO FEDERAL OR STATE LAWS THAT

                    CURRENTLY REQUIRE NOTICE TO BE GIVEN TO CONSUMERS BY WEIGHT LOSS

                    SERVICES.  IT'S WELL-KNOWN, I THINK, AND I THINK EVEN SINCE 1999 WHEN

                    THIS BILL WAS FIRST INTRODUCED, I THINK THAT THE -- THE PUBLIC AT-LARGE HAS

                    BECOME A LOT MORE GENERALLY WELL-AWARE OF THE RISK AND BENEFITS THAT

                    HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED BEFORE BEGINNING ANY KIND OF A WEIGHT LOSS

                    PROGRAM, AND I -- I QUESTION WHETHER THIS BILL REALLY IS A NECESSARY.  I

                    THINK THAT CONSUMER EDUCATION HAS IMPROVED.

                                 THE FTC, THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION DOES KIND

                    OF OCCUPY THIS AREA AND HAS ACTED AS -- AS AN ENFORCEMENT ARM IN THE

                                         124



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PAST AND HAS REACHED CONSENT AGREEMENTS PREVIOUSLY WHEN IT FELT THAT

                    THERE WERE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES TAKING PLACE WITH DIFFERENT DIETING

                    SYSTEMS.  THE OTHER POINT THAT I JUST WOULD LIKE TO MAKE VERY QUICKLY IS

                    THAT IF YOU'RE A COMPANY THAT WORKS IN DIFFERENT STATES, LIKE A BIG ONE

                    LIKE WEIGHT WATCHERS OR JENNY CRAIG OR, YOU KNOW, I COULD PROBABLY

                    NAME THEM ALL, BUT YOU WOULD -- UNDER THIS BILL, IF IT PASSED, YOU WOULD

                    NEED TO ACTUALLY HAVE DIFFERENT LITERATURE AND DIFFERENT THINGS SPECIFIC

                    TO THIS STATE THAT YOU WOULDN'T NEED IN ANY OTHER STATE, BECAUSE NO

                    OTHER STATE'S HAVE THIS KIND OF RULE.  SO, I THINK THAT WOULD REQUIRE AN

                    ADDITIONAL COST ON THESE DIFFERENT COMPANIES.

                                 SO, OVERALL, I GET THE -- INTENTION THAT THE SPONSOR HAS

                    AND A HAVING REALLY STUCK BY THIS BILL FOR THIS NUMBER OF YEARS, BUT I

                    DON'T REALLY THINK THAT IT'S NECESSARY.  SO, I OFFER THAT FOR MY COLLEAGUES

                    AND THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    WALSH.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 247.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                         125



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  OH, SORRY.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE FOLLOWING

                    REPUBLICAN MEMBERS WILL BE VOTING NO ON THIS LEGISLATION:  MR.

                    FITZPATRICK, MR. SCHMITT, MR. DIPIETRO, MR. LAWRENCE AND MR. FRIEND.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06983-B, CALENDAR

                    NO. 249, GOTTFRIED, PAULIN, NIOU, FAHY, HEVESI, SAYEGH, L. ROSENTHAL,

                    SIMOTAS, KIM, QUART, EPSTEIN, MOSLEY, AUBRY, JAFFEE, D'URSO, WALKER,

                    CRUZ, STECK, PERRY, DICKENS, HUNTER, ARROYO, CROUCH, ORTIZ, REYES,

                    COOK, SIMON, DARLING, WALCZYK, RIVERA, SEAWRIGHT, LIFTON,

                    FERNANDEZ, GLICK, BLAKE, O'DONNELL, CARROLL, TAYLOR, BRONSON, OTIS.

                    AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN RELATION TO VACATING

                    CONVICTIONS FOR OFFENSES RESULTING FROM SEX TRAFFICKING, LABOR

                    TRAFFICKING AND COMPELLING PROSTITUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  ABOUT TEN

                    YEARS AGO, WE PASSED A VERY GOOD LAW THAT ENABLED PEOPLE WHO WERE

                    VICTIMS OF SEX TRAFFICKING AND OTHER FORMS OF TRAFFICKING, IF THAT

                    TRAFFICKING FORCED THEM INTO PROSTITUTION, IT ENABLED THEM TO GET THEIR

                                         126



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    CRIMINAL RECORDS FOR THAT PROSTITUTION ERASED SO THEY COULD GET ON WITH

                    THEIR LIVES.  BUT PEOPLE WHO ARE THE VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING ARE OFTEN

                    FORCED INTO OTHER KINDS OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON BEHALF OF THEIR

                    TRAFFICKERS.  THIS BILL WOULD EXPAND OUR ORIGINAL LAW TO FOLLOW WHAT A

                    NUMBER OF OTHER STATES HAVE DONE, WHICH IS TO EXPAND OUR LAW TO COVER

                    CONVICTIONS FOR A VARIETY OF OTHER THINGS WHERE THAT CONVICTION OR THAT

                    CRIMINAL ACT WAS FORCED BY THE TRAFFICKING.  I SHOULD POINT OUT THIS

                    WOULD NOT CREATE AN ENTITLEMENT TO HAVING THAT CRIMINAL RECORD WIPED

                    OUT, IT WOULD BE IN THE DISCRETION OF THE JUDGE.  THE BILL ALSO MAKES

                    SOME OTHER PROCEDURAL CHANGES IN THE 2010 LAW DEALING WITH KEEPING

                    RECORDS CONFIDENTIAL AND THE LIKE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PALUMBO.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES, CERTAINLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED YIELDS.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.  NOW,

                    IN THE CURRENT STATUTE THAT WE'RE AMENDING, I GUESS WE HAVE OFFICIAL

                    DOCUMENTATION OF THE DEFENDANT'S STATUS AS A VICTIM CAN BE A MANNER OF

                    PROOF.  THE VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING, LABOR TRAFFICKING, AGGRAVATED

                    LABOR TRAFFICKING, COMPELLING PROSTITUTION OR TRAFFICKING IN PERSON AT THE

                    TIME OF THE OFFENSE.  COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT WE MEAN BY OTHER

                    DOCUMENT OR -- "OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION", PLEASE?

                                         127



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, IT'S LANGUAGE THAT'S BEEN ON

                    THE BOOKS FOR TEN YEARS.  IT'S -- I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS EVER QUESTIONED

                    IT.  IT WOULD BE THINGS LIKE COURT RECORDS, ARREST RECORDS AND THE LIKE.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  AND SO, A DETERMINATION, SAY, FROM

                    ANOTHER COURT THAT INDICATES THAT THIS PERSON WAS FOUND TO BE A VICTIM

                    OF VICTIM -- OF SEX TRAFFICKING, THAT WOULD BE OFFERED BY WAY OF THIS

                    NEW MOTION TO VACATE A CONVICTION FOR THESE CRIMES THAT YOU -- THAT ARE

                    NOW SUBJECT TO THIS STATUTE; IS THAT ACCURATE?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  AS IT HAS BEEN FOR A DECADE, YES.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  AND NOW, WE CROSS OUT AT THE

                    BEGINNING OF THIS, IT ORIGINALLY WAS JUST AN, AS YOU INDICATED EARLIER, WE

                    DID THIS AND MANY OTHER STATES FOLLOWED SUIT, THAT IT WOULD VACATE THE

                    CONVICTION FOR PROSTITUTION-RELATED OFFENSES.  NOW THAT THIS SECTION IS

                    STRICKEN, THEY CAN NOW APPLY FOR VACATED OF ANY CHARGE THAT THEY

                    ULTIMATELY ARE CONVICTED OF, INCLUDING VIOLENT FELONIES; IS THAT ACCURATE,

                    AS WELL?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THAT'S THE LAW NOW IN QUITE A FEW

                    OTHER STATES, WE WOULD BE FOLLOWING THAT.  AND, AGAIN, THERE WOULD BE

                    NO ENTITLEMENT TO HAVE THE CONVICTION WIPED OUT.  IT WOULD BE IN THE

                    DISCRETION OF THE COURT.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  THE SECOND AREA THAT'S ALSO

                    STRICKEN IS THAT THE MOTION HAD TO BE MADE ORIGINALLY WITH DUE

                    DILIGENCE ONCE THE DEFENDANT HAS CEASED TO BE THE VICTIM OF SEX -- SEX

                    TRAFFICKING; NOW IT'S BEING CROSSED OUT.  IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT NOW THEY

                    COULD APPLY -- AT ANY TIME THEY COULD MAKE THIS MOTION TO VACATE A

                                         128



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    CONVICTION, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE BEEN RELIEVED OF

                    THAT -- THAT ENSLAVEMENT, WHICH WE CAN REALLY CALL IT, OF THE SEX

                    TRAFFICKER?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.  WELL, THE LAW ALWAYS

                    TALKED ABOUT, CERTAINLY CONTEMPLATED THE PERSON NO LONGER BEING IN --

                    AN ONGOING VICTIM OF TRAFFICKING.  THIS IS THE SORT OF MOTION YOU WOULD

                    MAKE AFTER YOU WERE OUT OF THAT.  BUT LIKE AN AWFUL LOT OF LEGAL RELIEF, IT

                    WOULD NOT BE LIMITED TO SOMEBODY ACTING WITH DUE DILIGENCE, A PRETTY

                    VAGUE TERM.  YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE RECOGNIZED THAT PEOPLE WHO

                    ARE THIS KIND OF VICTIM OFTEN TAKE TIME TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  IF I MAY JUST INTERJECT, MR.

                    GOTTFRIED --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, LET ME FINISH.  AND THERE

                    MAY BE OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES THAT MAKE IT HARD FOR THEM TO GO TO COURT.

                    FOR EXAMPLE, THERE MAY BE A CLOSE FRIEND OR RELATIVE THAT IS STILL A

                    TRAFFICKING VICTIM EVEN THOUGH THEY THEMSELVES MAY HAVE BROKEN FREE,

                    AND THAT MAY MAKE IT HARD FOR THEM TO MAKE THEIR CASE IN COURT.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  AND I -- AND I UNDERSTAND THAT AND

                    I THINK WE COULD MAYBE EVEN PROVIDE FOR THAT, BECAUSE THE DUE

                    DILIGENCE STANDARD ALREADY EXISTS IN CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, SECTION

                    440, RIGHT?  IF THERE IS NEW EVIDENCE THAT'S BEEN DISCOVERED, THEY MUST

                    APPLY UNDER 440 TO VACATE THE JUDGMENT WITH REGARD TO NEW EVIDENCE.

                    BUT JUST ONE OTHER AREA IF I MAY ASK A FEW QUESTIONS --

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, DUE DILIGENCE DOES APPEAR

                    IN VARIOUS PLACES IN THE LAW.  IT DOESN'T APPEAR EVERYWHERE IN THE LAW

                                         129



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND THIS WILL BE ONE PLACE WHERE WE WILL TAKE IT OUT.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  SURE.  AND IF -- IF THEY'RE -- IF BY

                    DOCUMENTATION OR OTHERWISE, THE VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING WAS, IN FACT,

                    A VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING AT THE TIME OF THE OFFENSE, AS WE CAN SEE ON

                    PAGE 3, AT LINE 26 -- OR LINE 25 AND 26, IT SHALL CREATE A PRESUMPTION

                    THAT THE DEFENDANT'S PARTICIPATION IN THE OFFENSE WAS A RESULT OF HAVING

                    BEEN A VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING.  SO, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT CLEARLY,

                    THEY SIMPLY, BY WAY OF THEM BEING A VICTIM AT THE TIME, REGARDLESS OF

                    THE ELEMENTS OF THE CRIME, OR WHAT THE SPECIFIC CONDUCT WAS, THEY

                    ALREADY HAVE A PRESUMPTION IN THEIR FAVOR THAT THE CRIME WAS

                    COMMITTED DUE TO THEIR COMPULSION UNDER -- BEING A SEX TRAFFIC VICTIM?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YEAH.  AND, AGAIN, THAT'S BEEN

                    THE LAW FOR A DECADE AND IS A LAW THAT WAS QUICKLY ADOPTED AND EVEN

                    BROADENED IN MANY OTHER STATES.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  SURE.  AND WE'VE ADDED LABOR

                    TRAFFICKING, AS WELL, TO THIS NEW STATUTE, CORRECT, WITH THE AMENDMENT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.  YES.  YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE

                    ESSENTIALLY ENSLAVED, IT CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVE THAT THE REASON

                    YOU DID WHAT YOUR MASTER WANTED WAS BECAUSE YOU WERE ENSLAVED.

                    AND SO, WE ESTABLISHED A PRESUMPTION -- REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  IN THAT REGARD, WHAT'S THE LEVEL OF

                    PROOF THAT THE DEFENDANT NEEDS TO COME FORWARD WITH?  MEANING, IF

                    THEY PROVIDE THIS INFORMATION, WHAT IS THE STANDARD THAT THE JUDGE WILL

                    APPLY AS FAR AS CLEAR AND CONVINCING, PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE,

                    BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.  CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US SPECIFICALLY FOR THE

                                         130



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PURPOSES OF THE RECORD, WHAT NEEDS TO BE ESTABLISHED BY THE DEFENDANT,

                    OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT THEY WERE JUST A VICTIM, MEANING DO THEY HAVE

                    TO ALSO ESTABLISH THAT THEIR CONDUCT AND THE REASON THAT THEY ACTUALLY

                    COMMITTED THAT CRIME IS BECAUSE THEY WERE, IN FACT, A VICTIM?  AND I

                    JUST, IF I MAY COMMENT A LITTLE FURTHER ON THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU

                    INTERPOSE A DURESS DEFENSE THAT YOU COMMITTED A CRIME DUE TO THE

                    THREATS OR COMPULSION OF ANOTHER THAT YOU DID SO AND THAT NEEDS TO BE

                    ESTABLISHED BY THE DEFENDANT THAT THEY -- THAT A REASONABLE PERSON IN

                    THOSE SITUATIONS WOULD HAVE STILL COMMITTED THE CRIME.  SO, IS THERE ANY

                    TYPE OF STANDARD THAT WE -- THAT THE DEFENDANT NEEDS TO ESTABLISH OTHER

                    THAN JUST SIMPLY THE FACT THAT THEY WERE A SEX TRAFFICKING VICTIM?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  WELL, AS WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING

                    THIS SENTENCE, ONCE THE VICTIM PRESENTS OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION OR -- OR

                    -- OR OTHER PROOF OF THE UNDERLYING FACTS, THERE IS THEN A PRESUMPTION

                    THAT THE CONDUCT WAS A RESULT OF THE -- BEING THE TRAFFICKING VICTIM.  I

                    THINK WE BOTH UNDERSTAND WHAT A PRESUMPTION IS.  IT MEANS THAT IF YOU

                    ESTABLISH A, THEN THE LAW ASSUMES B TO BE ESTABLISHED UNLESS

                    SOMEBODY ELSE COMES FORWARD WITH EVIDENCE TO DEFEAT THE

                    PRESUMPTION.  IT'S A PRETTY ANCIENT CONCEPT IN THE LAW.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.  I

                    APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

                                 ON THE BILL, PLEASE, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  SO -- THANK YOU.  AND, OF COURSE,

                    OBVIOUSLY I THINK WE ALL TO THE PERSON UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF THIS BILL

                                         131



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND THE INTENT OF THE PREVIOUS BILL, WHICH MADE A LOT OF SENSE.  THE FACT

                    THAT SOMEONE IS BEING COMPELLED, FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES, FOR THE

                    MONETARY BENEFIT OF ANOTHER TO ENGAGE IN SEX ACTS, AND NOW WE'VE

                    EXPANDED THIS TO EVEN MORE, WHICH IS A BIG ISSUE.  OUR BORDER STATES, AS

                    YOU CAN IMAGINE, THAT PEOPLE ARE BEING BROUGHT AGAINST THEIR WILL TO

                    WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE, IN -- AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IN SOMEWHAT OF AN

                    ENSLAVED POSITION, THAT'S APPROPRIATE.

                                 AND THE ONLY WRINKLE I HAVE WITH THIS IS THAT WE NOW

                    ARE EXPANDING WAY TOO FAR, AND I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH, THAT THERE ARE

                    MANY, MANY STUDIES REGARDING HUMAN SEX TRAFFICKING, AND THERE ARE A

                    LOT OF INCONSISTENCIES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, THAT REGARDING THOSE

                    SPECIFIC SEX OFFENSES THAT THEY WERE ENGAGED IN, IT CERTAINLY MAKES

                    SENSE THAT IF THEY'RE A VICTIM OF -- OF SEX TRAFFICKING THEN OBVIOUSLY

                    THEY SHOULD BE VACATED THOSE -- THOSE CONVICTIONS IF THEY WERE UNABLE

                    TO INTERPOSE THAT DEFENSE, BUT YOU CAN DO THIS TO THE FINDER OF FACT TO A

                    TRIAL -- TO A JURY -- A TRIAL JURY OR TO A JUDGE IF IT'S ULTIMATELY A BENCH

                    TRIAL, INDICATING THAT YOU WERE NOT OF THE APPROPRIATE MENTAL STATE TO

                    HAVE COMMITTED THIS CRIME.  THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN DO ON A

                    REGULAR BASIS AS YOU CAN WITH THE DURESS DEFENSE.  AND IF IT'S REJECTED,

                    YOU STILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A 440 MOTION, AS IT CURRENTLY

                    EXISTS.

                                 BUT NOW, AS I INDICATED, THE -- ONE OF THESE PROJECTS,

                    THE POLARIS PROJECT, HAD SOME SUGGESTED STATUTORY LANGUAGE FOR A

                    UNIFORM ACT ON PREVENTION OF AND REMEDIES FOR HUMAN TRAFFICKING, AND

                    THEY SPECIFICALLY HAVE SUGGESTED LANGUAGE, AND AN INDIVIDUAL CONVICTED

                                         132



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    OF PROSTITUTION, AND THEN COUPLED WITH WHERE EVERYONE ELSE HAS BEEN

                    EXPANDING IT, TO DRUG OFFENSES, IT'S AN INSERT OF A NON-VIOLENT OFFENSES

                    COMMITTED AS A DIRECT RESULT OF BEING A VICTIM OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING

                    MAY APPLY TO THE COURT TO VACATE THEIR CONVICTION, AND THAT IS CERTAINLY

                    THE APPROPRIATE STANDARD.  FOR EVEN SUGGESTING TO FURTHER EXPAND THIS

                    OPPORTUNITY THAT ANYONE COMMITTING ANY TYPE OF CRIME, INCLUDING

                    VIOLENT CRIMES, WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE DEFENSE OF DURESS IN THE EVENT THAT

                    THEY WANTED TO INTERPOSE SUCH A THING.  NOW, WE ARE -- THIS IS A BALANCE

                    AND I THINK WE ARE TAKING MORE CONTROL AND POWER FROM OUR FINDERS OF

                    FACT AND FROM THE COURTS AND REQUIRING THEM TO PRESUME THAT SOMEONE'S

                    CONDUCT, WHETHER IT'S CAUSALLY RELATED OR NOT, AND I KNOW A LOT OF US ARE

                    LAWYERS AND THEY KNOW WHAT THAT WORD MEANS, BUT IT -- MEANING A

                    DIRECT RESULT OF THE TRAFFICKING IS THE REASON WHY THEY COMMITTED THAT

                    CRIME.  AND THAT'S WHY, IN OUR CURRENT JURISPRUDENCE AND SYSTEM OF

                    JURISPRUDENCE, WHEN YOU INTERPOSE A DURESS DEFENSE, YOU NEED TO

                    ESTABLISH THAT A REASONABLE PERSON IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD ALSO

                    HAVE COMMITTED THE CRIME.  AND THE JURY -- A REASONABLE PERSON, A

                    REASONABLE MAN, A REASONABLE WOMAN STANDARD IS A VERY LONGSTANDING

                    TYPE OF STANDARD THAT HAS EXISTED IN OUR LAW.  AND THAT'S FOR A JURY AND

                    FINDER OF FACT, A JURY OR JUDGE, TO DECIDE AT A TRIAL.  IF IT'S REJECTED AND

                    THERE'S MORE INFORMATION THAT COMES TO LIGHT, YOU CAN MAKE A CURRENT

                    440 MOTION.  AND NOW, WE'RE ACTUALLY PROVIDING THIS NEW CATEGORY

                    WITH NO CLEAR BURDEN OF PROOF TO SIMPLY ESTABLISH A THIRD BITE OF THE

                    APPLE TO VACATE A VIOLENT CRIME, WHICH IS NOW INCLUDED.  I THINK DRUG

                    OFFENSES WOULD CERTAINLY BE APPROPRIATE, VERY CONSISTENT WITH THAT.  WE

                                         133



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    HAVE AN EXTREMELY DESCRIPTIVE EXPLANATION AND DEFINITION OF "SEX

                    TRAFFICKING" IN OUR PENAL LAW AS THEY DO IN THE U.S. CODE THAT THIS IS

                    SOMETHING THAT IS CERTAINLY VERY EXPANSIVE AND IT'S CERTAINLY

                    APPROPRIATE.

                                 BUT, NOW, WE NEED TO BALANCE OUR VICTIMS' RIGHTS WITH

                    THE RIGHTS OF A SEX TRAFFICKING VICTIM OR DEFENDANT THAT WE DON'T WANT

                    UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES WHERE THE SIMPLE PROOF THAT SOMEONE WAS A

                    VICTIM OF HUMAN SEX TRAFFICKING TODAY EXONERATES THEM FROM CRIMES

                    THEY COMMIT NEXT WEEK AND NEXT YEAR INCLUDING VIOLENT CRIMES.  WHAT

                    ABOUT THOSE VICTIMS?

                                 SO, I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF THIS BILL, AND WE DEBATED

                    THIS FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT

                    WHY DO WE NEED TO GO SO FAR OVER THE LINE TO VIOLENT CRIMES,

                    VICTIM-SENSITIVE CRIMES, WHEN WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW THIS WILL WORK

                    OUTSIDE OF THE PROSTITUTION OFFENSES WHERE IT CURRENTLY EXISTS.  AND THIS

                    WAS A SITUATION, THE ONE THAT I REFERRED TO IN QUEENS, THE JUDGE FOUND

                    THAT THEIR VICTIM STATUS IS THE REASON WHY THEY COMMITTED ALL THE CRIMES

                    THEY WERE CHARGED WITH, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS A STOLEN PROPERTY AND A

                    DRUG CHARGE.  SO, THE JUDGE VACATED THEM ALL, WHICH WAS CERTAINLY

                    APPROPRIATE.  THAT IS DURESS, THAT IS WHAT IT IS.  AND MAYBE IT WASN'T

                    CLEARLY DEFINED IN OUR PENAL LAW AND WE NEEDED THE STATUTE IN 2010 TO

                    INDICATE THAT, YES, WE DO HEAR THE FACT THAT THERE ARE VICTIMS OF SEX

                    TRAFFICKING AND THOSE FOLKS ARE COMPELLED, EVEN THOSE THERE'S NOT AN

                    IMMEDIATE THREAT - SOMEONE DOESN'T HAVE A GUN TO THEIR HEAD, BUT THEY

                    KNOW IF THEY DON'T DO THIS, IF THEY DON'T -- IF THEY DON'T COMMIT THESE

                                         134



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    CRIMES OR ENGAGE IN THESE ACTS, THAT THEIR PIMP OR THEIR CONTROLLER WILL

                    EVENTUALLY GET TO THEM IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS, HOURS, WEEKS OR MONTHS,

                    THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE RECOGNIZE, AND WE SHOULD.  AND THAT IS A

                    CLEARLY DEFINED OFFENSE NOW.

                                 SO, MY PROBLEM WITH THIS, MY FRIENDS, IS THAT I GET THE

                    IDEA.  IT HAS -- IT HAS VERY LOGICAL INTENT, BUT THE WAY IT'S DRAFTED IS FAR

                    TOO EXPANSIVE, AND WE DON'T EVEN HAVE ANY REASONABLE STANDARD.  WE

                    DON'T EVEN KNOW, EVEN ASSUMING THE PROSECUTION CAN BE HEARD, HOW

                    CAN THEY REBUT THE FACT THAT A JUDGE PREVIOUSLY FOUND, SAY, ON A

                    PROSTITUTION OFFENSE THAT THIS PERSON WAS A VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING,

                    THEY CANNOT.  AND THEN, IT COMPLETELY GIVES THEM A FREE PASS FOR EVEN

                    VICTIM-SENSITIVE CRIMES IN THE FUTURE.  SO, UNFORTUNATELY, I DO NOT

                    SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION AND I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE NO.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 255 -- OH, OK, EXCUSE ME, CALENDAR

                    NO. 249.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS

                    AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY VOTING NO ON THIS LEGISLATION.

                                         135



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE YES ARE ENCOURAGED TO CONTACT THE MINORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE AND LET THEM KNOW THEIR POSITION.  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MS. HUNTER.

                                 MS. HUNTER:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THIS IS

                    A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO VOTE NO

                    SHOULD CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    HUNTER.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    PLEASE RECORD ASSEMBLYMAN CROUCH AND ASSEMBLYMAN SCHMITT IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL.  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07097, CALENDAR NO.

                    255, STERN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    STANDARDS FOR PROMPT INVESTIGATION AND SETTLEMENT OF CLAIMS ARISING

                    FROM STATES OF EMERGENCY.

                                         136



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    -- IS REQUESTED.

                                 MR. STERN:  YES, MADAM SPEAKER.  THIS LEGISLATIVE

                    INITIATIVE ESTABLISHES CLAIM INVESTIGATION AND TIMELY SETTLEMENT

                    STANDARDS FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES IN THE EVENT OF A DISASTER OR

                    EMERGENCY.  AS WE EXPERIENCED ALL TOO WELL AFTER THE DEVASTATION OF

                    SUPERSTORM SANDY, PARTICULARLY IN MY HOME REGION OF LONG ISLAND, AND

                    TROPICAL STORMS IRENE AND LEE, PARTICULARLY UPSTATE, IN TOO MANY CASES

                    YEARS WOULD PASS BEFORE HOMEOWNERS AND BUSINESSES WERE ABLE TO

                    RESOLVE THEIR CLAIMS IN ORDER TO DO THE NECESSARY REPAIRS, REPLACE

                    PROPERTY OR BECOME WHOLE AGAIN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GARBARINO.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. STERN:  OF COURSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  THANK YOU, MR. STERN.  CAN YOU

                    PLEASE GO OVER -- I MEAN, MY FIRST RACE WAS IN 2012, SO RIGHT IN THE

                    HEART OF WHEN SUPERSTORM SANDY HIT.  MY DISTRICT COVERS THE SOUTH

                    SHORE OF LONG ISLAND AND FIRE ISLAND.  CAN YOU GO OVER WHAT THE

                    CURRENT LAW IS AND WHY WE'RE CHANGING IT?

                                         137



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. STERN:  WELL, YES.  AS YOU WELL KNOW,

                    REPRESENTING THE AREA THAT WAS HIT PARTICULARLY HARD BY SUPERSTORM

                    SANDY HOW IMPORTANT THIS LEGISLATIVE INITIATIVE IS AND WHY IT'S

                    IMPORTANT TO HAVE LEGISLATION, BECAUSE AS OF RIGHT NOW, THERE IS NO

                    PROVISION THAT PROVIDES FOR THIS TYPE OF TIME AND STANDARD STRUCTURE IN

                    THE CASE OF AN EMERGENCY OR IN THE CASE OF A SUPERSTORM SANDY TYPE OF

                    NATURAL DISASTER.  BECAUSE THERE WERE NO GUIDELINES BACK AT THAT TIME,

                    DFS HAD TO ISSUE EMERGENCY REGULATIONS, WHICH ARE NO LONGER IN

                    EXISTENCE.  THIS NOW WOULD BE OUR LEGISLATIVE EFFORT TO CREATE THAT --

                    THAT STRUCTURE GOING FORWARD.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  SO -- SO THIS WOULD CODIFY THOSE

                    PREVIOUS EMERGENCY REGULATIONS THAT DFS ISSUED, CORRECT?

                                 MR. STERN:  IT WOULD CODIFY A STRUCTURE IN TERMS OF

                    TIME AND REQUIREMENTS, BUT IT DOES NOT MIRROR WHAT THOSE EMERGENCY

                    REGULATIONS HAD BEEN.  DIFFERENT FACTS, DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES AT THE

                    TIME, AND I -- I WAS NOT HERE IN ALBANY AT THE TIME, BUT I DO REMEMBER

                    THE IMPACT VERY WELL, AND HAVING SERVED AT THE MORE LOCAL LEVEL OF THE

                    GOVERNMENT HOW CRITICALLY IMPORTANT IT WAS TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF

                    REQUIREMENT FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO BE ABLE TO SERVE THEIR

                    CUSTOMERS, TO SERVE THEIR POLICYHOLDERS SO THAT THEY DIDN'T CONTINUE TO

                    WAIT MONTHS AND YEARS FOR THE RELIEF THAT THEY DESPERATELY NEEDED.  SO,

                    HERE, THIS IS NOT JUST RE-IMPLEMENTING THE EMERGENCY REGULATIONS AS

                    THEY EXISTED AT THE TIME - THE STANDARDS, THE TIME ELEMENT, IN PARTICULAR,

                    ARE DIFFERENT WHEN THEY WERE WHEN IT WAS DONE AS AN EMERGENCY

                    REGULATION.

                                         138



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  SO, THIS BILL, THOUGH,

                    PROVIDES THAT ANY CLAIM HAS TO BE RESPONDED TO WITHIN 15 DAYS OR

                    SETTLED WITHIN 15 DAYS OF WHEN THE CLAIM IS RECEIVED?

                                 MR. STERN:  SO THE REQUIREMENT HERE IS THAT WHEN A

                    POLICYHOLDER MAKES THE CLAIM, AS IN ANY OTHER CASE, ALL OF THE

                    INFORMATION, ALL OF THE DOCUMENTATION IS REQUIRED TO BE SUBMITTED.

                    ONCE IT IS DETERMINED TO BE COMPLETE, AT THAT POINT THE INSURANCE

                    COMPANY HAS TO GO THROUGH THEIR ADJUSTMENT PERIOD, AND THEY HAVE 15

                    DAYS TO DO SO.  IN ADDITION, THE INSURANCE COMPANY CAN TACK ON AN

                    ADDITIONAL 15 DAY PERIOD, BUT IF THEY DO SO, THERE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE

                    A REASON, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT THAT IN WRITING TO THE

                    POLICYHOLDER AS TO THE REASONS WHY IT'S GOING TO TAKE AN ADDITIONAL 15

                    DAYS.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  ALL RIGHT.  SO, THE 15 DAY

                    ADDITIONAL TIME PERIOD IS AUTOMATIC ONLY IF THEY SUBMIT A LETTER,

                    SOMETHING IN WRITING WITH THE REASONS, TO THE INSURED.

                                 MR. STERN:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  SO THE INSURED CAN'T CHALLENGE

                    THAT REQUEST OF ADDITIONAL TIME?

                                 MR. STERN:  THE INSURED CANNOT CHALLENGE THE --

                    THE REASONING FOR THE ADDITIONAL TIME, OR AT LEAST THE DETERMINATION.  IN

                    PART, THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS LEGISLATION IS THEN GOING TO BE SUBJECT

                    TO REGULATION IF ANY ARE NECESSARY UNDER DFS.  AND SO, AT THAT POINT IT

                    WOULD BE THE SUPERINTENDENT OF DFS THAT MIGHT NEED TO DETERMINE

                    WHETHER OR NOT THE REASON GIVEN BY THE INSURANCE COMPANY IS ONE THAT

                                         139



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    IS ADEQUATE.  THAT'S GOING TO BE PART OF THE RULE-MAKING PROCESS GOING

                    FORWARD.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  ALL RIGHT.  SO THAT -- THAT WAS

                    ACTUALLY MY NEXT QUESTION, IF -- IF THE INSURANCE COMPANY JUST SAID, WE

                    DIDN'T -- WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME, WE NEED -- WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH

                    TIME TO DO IT IN 15 DAYS, WE NEED AN EXTRA 15 DAYS.  I KNEW THE

                    LEGISLATION DIDN'T SPEAK TO THAT, BUT IT'S YOUR INTENT THAT THE REGULATIONS

                    WILL SPEAK TO WHAT THE PROPER REASONING IS.

                                 MR. STERN:  THAT IS THE INTENT HERE AND, CERTAINLY, IF

                    THAT IS A VIABLE REASON GIVEN THE -- THE FACTS AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES AT

                    THE TIME, THAT SHOULD BE THE DETERMINATION OF THE SUPERINTENDENT, YES.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  IF THEY, AFTER THE FULL 30

                    DAYS, DENY, WHAT IS -- DENY THE CLAIM, BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T HAD ENOUGH

                    TIME TO DETERMINE THE AMOUNT AND THEY SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?  INSTEAD

                    OF GRANTING IT -- OR SETTLING IT, WE'RE JUST GOING TO DENY IT, WHAT IS THE

                    OPTION OF THE INSURED THEN?

                                 MR. STERN:  THE INSURED THEN HAS ALL OF THE -- THE

                    REGULARLY BARGAINED FOR PROCEDURES TO FILE THE APPEAL AND THEN GO

                    THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  SO --

                                 MR. STERN:  THEY CAN APPEAL THE DETERMINATION.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  IS THERE -- SO DO THEY --

                    WHATEVER THE APPEAL PROCESS IS IN -- UNDER THEIR CONTRACT OR UNDER DFS

                    REGULATIONS?

                                 MR. STERN:  THAT WOULD REALLY BE UNDER BOTH.

                                         140



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  NOW HERE'S --

                    AND THIS WAS BROUGHT UP BY BOTH THE NEW YORK INSURANCE ASSOCIATION

                    AS WELL AS THE AMERICAN PROPERTY CASUALTY INSURANCE ASSOCIATION

                    SAYING THAT THERE'S A CONCERN THAT IF THIS 15 DAY LIMIT IS PUT ON

                    EVERYBODY, EVERY SORT OF CLAIM, THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE, YOU KNOW, WHERE

                    SOMEBODY NEEDS -- SOMEBODY HAS A TOTAL LOSS, YOU KNOW -- I HAVE THE

                    SOUTH SHORE, I HAD BLOCKS IN OAKDALE AND WEST SAYVILLE THAT WERE

                    COMPLETELY, YOU KNOW, UNDER WATER, YOU COULDN'T DRIVE DOWN THEM.

                    THOSE HOUSES HAD ALMOST COMPLETE TOTAL LOSSES.  IF -- IF YOU HAVE THIS

                    15 DAY RULE, IS THERE A CONCERN THAT SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT HAVE A TOTAL

                    LOSS WHO FILES, GETS ALL THEIR PAPERWORK IN TWO DAYS -- IN TWO DAYS, THEY

                    NOW HAVE TO WAIT IN LINE BEHIND SOMEBODY WHO HAS A VERY MINOR LOSS

                    BECAUSE THEY GOT THEIR PAPERWORK -- IT'S HARDER TO, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE

                    TO PROVE LESS BECAUSE THEN THEY GOT THEIR PAPERWORK IN EARLY.

                                 MR. STERN:  SURE.  WELL, AS TO THE TIMING, THAT

                    WOULD ULTIMATELY -- HOW THEY ARE GOING TO BE PROCESSED WOULD

                    ULTIMATELY BE DETERMINED BY DFS.  AND, AGAIN, THAT IS GOING TO BE PART

                    OF THE RULE-MAKING PROCESS AND CREATING REGULATIONS THAT WOULD APPLY

                    AND THAT WOULD, IN PARTICULAR, BE AN IMPORTANT POINT TO BE DONE BY

                    REGULATION.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  BUT IT SAYS EVERYBODY -- IT SAYS

                    EVERYBODY HAS TO BE DONE WITHIN 15 DAYS, PLUS ANOTHER 15 DAY

                    EXTENSION.

                                 MR. STERN:  THAT'S RIGHT, BUT THERE CAN BE A REASON

                    WITHIN THE 15 DAYS GIVEN BY THE INSURANCE COMPANY AS TO WHY THEY

                                         141



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    NEED THE ADDITIONAL TIME.  WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS GOING TO BE

                    REASONABLE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS

                    DETERMINED BY THE SUPERINTENDENT OF DFS.  AND, AGAIN, THAT SHOULD BE

                    PART OF THE RULE-MAKING PROCESS.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  UNDER THIS -- UNDER THIS

                    INSURANCE -- THIS BILL, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT ALLOWS THE INSURANCE

                    COMPANY FOR, IF THERE WAS A TOTAL LOSS, YOU KNOW, TO DETERMINE, YOU

                    KNOW, BECAUSE I'VE -- I DEALT WITH ALL SORTS OF STUFF AND I WASN'T EVEN --

                    I WAS ELECTED, BUT I WASN'T -- I WASN'T SWORN IN YET, SO I WAS DEALING

                    WITH CASES BEFORE I WAS EVEN SWORN IN, THERE WERE SOME BIG ISSUES ON

                    THE SOUTH SHORE.  AND MY CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, IS THERE A WAY FOR, SO

                    THERE'S PROPER VALUE.  I DON'T WANT TO SEE INSURANCE COMPANIES DENYING

                    PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET IT DONE WITHIN 30 DAYS AND THEY'RE LIKE,

                    WELL, WE CAN'T GET IT DONE SO WE'LL DENY IT, AND WE'LL JUST DO IT IN THE

                    APPEAL.  AND I HAD BUSINESSES THAT WERE -- BUSINESSES THAT HAD MILLIONS

                    OF DOLLARS IN BUSINESS INTERRUPTION THAT THEY LOST BECAUSE THEY WERE

                    CATERING HALLS, I HAD HOUSES THAT WERE TOTAL LOSS.  I JUST -- MY CONCERN

                    IS, IS THERE A WAY UNDER THIS LEGISLATION TO GET MORE THAN 30 DAYS?  OR

                    IS IT -- DOES IT HAVE -- IS IT EITHER IT GETS DONE IN 30 DAYS OR -- OR THEY

                    HAVE TO DENY IT?

                                 MR. STERN:  AGAIN, I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE

                    SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO GO THROUGH THE RULE-MAKING PROCESS, AND IT'S

                    GOING TO HAVE TO BE THE SUBJECT TO REGULATION.  SO, CERTAINLY AN EXAMPLE

                    WHERE EVERY SINGLE ADJUSTER KNOWN TO THE INDUSTRY, WHETHER THEY ARE

                    BASED IN NEW YORK OR ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IF THERE'S THAT KIND OF

                                         142



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    DEVASTATION IN A PARTICULAR REGION AND THERE IS AN IMPOSSIBILITY, THAT'S

                    GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS ADDRESSED, PERHAPS IN AN

                    EMERGENCY MEASURE LIKE IT WAS BACK IN THE AFTERMATH OF SUPERSTORM

                    SANDY.  SO, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, PERHAPS THAT'S GOING TO BE THE

                    CASE, BUT AS IN ALL OF THESE NATURAL DISASTERS, IN ALL OF THESE CASES OF

                    EMERGENCY, ULTIMATELY THAT'S GOING TO BE A DETERMINATION THAT'S GOING

                    TO BE MADE ON THE EXECUTIVE SIDE OF THE -- OF THE LEDGER, WHETHER IT IS

                    THE GOVERNOR OR THE SUPERINTENDENT OF DSS [SIC], WHETHER IT IS A LOCAL

                    DECLARATION OF EMERGENCY AT THE STATE LEVEL OR, YOU KNOW, EVEN AT THE

                    NATIONAL LEVEL.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  I APPRECIATE THAT, MR. STERN,

                    AND, AS WE KNOW, I THINK THE -- THE REPORT CARD CAME OUT AS TO HOW -- I

                    THINK DFS DID A REPORT CARD ON INSURANCE COMPANIES DURING THIS TIME,

                    AND MOST OF THEM WERE GIVEN VERY GOOD GRADES.  THERE WERE ONLY A

                    FEW SMALL ACTORS AND I THINK THIS, YOU KNOW, I THINK MAKING SURE THAT

                    THOSE SMALL ACTORS DON'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HOMEOWNERS IS VERY

                    IMPORTANT TO GO AFTER.  I JUST -- I THINK THAT THE LEGISLATION COULD BE --

                    IT'S THE GREAT INTENT TO MAKE SURE THAT HOMEOWNERS DON'T HAVE TO WAIT

                    TOO LONG WITH TOTAL LOSS.  I -- I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOMETHING HERE THAT

                    PRIORITIZES, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WITH TOTAL LOSS BECAUSE THEY NEED TO GO

                    TO -- THEY NEED TO START REPAIRING THEIR HOMES, THEY NEED TO, YOU KNOW,

                    GO SOMEWHERE TO STAY, YOU KNOW, COMPARED TO SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT

                    HAVE A MUCH MINOR LOSS, SAY, A DEFROSTED, YOU KNOW, FREEZER BECAUSE

                    THEY LOST POWER.  AND I'M NOT TRYING TO MINIMIZE THAT, BUT, YOU KNOW,

                    WHEN YOU TALK TO THOSE TWO PEOPLE, IT'S EASIER TO SAY WHICH ONE NEEDS

                                         143



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    TO BE ADDRESSED FIRST.

                                 BUT, I DO APPRECIATE THE INTENT, BECAUSE A LOT OF MY

                    CONSTITUENTS, ALL OF MY CONSTITUENTS LIVED THROUGH THIS AND THERE WAS

                    HEAVY DEVASTATION ON LONG ISLAND.  SO, I APPRECIATE THAT.  THANK YOU.

                    THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS, MR. STERN.

                                 MR. STERN:  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. STERN:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  JUST

                    FOLLOWING UP A LITTLE BIT ON MY COLLEAGUE'S QUESTIONS.  I JUST WANT TO

                    MAKE IT CLEAR THE 15 DAYS FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANY TO RESPOND

                    DOESN'T START UNTIL THE CLAIM IS COMPLETED?

                                 MR. STERN:  IT BEGINS AT THE TIME THE CLAIM IS

                    DEEMED AS COMPLETE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND THAT DETERMINATION IS MADE BY

                    THE INSURANCE COMPANY?

                                 MR. STERN:  THAT DETERMINATION WILL BE MADE BY

                    THE INSURANCE; HOWEVER, AS A PART OF THIS INITIATIVE, IT IS THE

                    RESPONSIBILITY OF THE INSURANCE COMPANY TO PROVIDE THE POLICYHOLDER

                                         144



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WITH A LIST OF INFORMATION AND DOCUMENTATION THAT IS PROVIDED.  THEN,

                    YES, OBJECTIVELY THE CLAIM WOULD BE DEEMED AS COMPLETE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  UNDER THIS BILL, IF A CLAIMANT IS

                    SUBMITTING A CLAIM FOR A TOTAL DESTRUCTION, FOR EXAMPLE, TYPICALLY THE

                    INSURANCE COMPANY WOULD LOOK FOR ITEMIZATION OF ALL THE PERSONAL

                    PROPERTY, RIGHT, AGE, DEPRECIATION, CONDITION, THEY WOULD LOOK FOR

                    ESTIMATES FROM CONTRACTORS, WHETHER IT'S REPLACEMENT VALUE OR MARKET

                    VALUE.  IF IT'S REPLACEMENT VALUE, IT'S MUCH MORE COMPLICATED BECAUSE

                    YOU HAVE TO HAVE CONSTRUCTION ESTIMATES, CORRECT, DEMOLITION EXPERTS

                    HAVE TO -- AND ALL OF THOSE ARE DIFFICULT, VERY DIFFICULT TO GET IN A WIDE

                    SCALE DISASTER, BECAUSE ALL THE CONTRACTORS ARE JUST OVERWHELMED WITH

                    BUSINESS AND THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO PREPARE A DETAILED ESTIMATE FOR THE

                    CLAIMANT.

                                 SO, I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS ON THAT.  UNDER THIS BILL,

                    COULD THE INSURANCE COMPANY SAY, YOUR CLAIM'S NOT COMPLETE UNTIL YOU

                    GIVE US DOCUMENTATION ON EVERY CLAIM, EVERY PART OF YOUR CLAIM.  IS

                    THAT WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THEIR DISCRETIONARY AUTHORITY UNDER THIS BILL?

                                 MR. STERN:  UNDER THIS BILL, CERTAINLY THE INSURANCE

                    COMPANY COULD COME BACK AND SAY, BECAUSE OF THIS REASON OR THAT

                    REASON THAT WE ARE NOT DEEMING YOUR APPLICATION, YOUR CLAIM AS BEING

                    COMPLETE; HOWEVER, IN THE BODY OF THE BILL, IT DOES PROVIDE FOR AN

                    ALTERNATIVE PROOF OPPORTUNITY OF CLAIM, WHETHER THAT IS DONE BY

                    PHOTOGRAPHIC OR VIDEO EVIDENCE, RECEIPT FOR REPAIRS, AS OUTLINED IN THE

                    LANGUAGE OF THE BILL, PARTICULARLY IN CASES WHERE WORK NEEDS TO BE

                    PERFORMED WHERE IT'S NECESSARY TO PROTECT THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF

                                         145



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WHETHER IT'S A FAMILY THAT'S RESIDING THERE OR A SURROUNDING AREA.  AND

                    THAT MEANS THAT A HOMEOWNER CAN PROCEED IN MAKING CERTAIN REPAIRS,

                    REPAIRING WINDOWS, EXTERIOR WALLS AND DOORS, ROOFS, HEATING, WATER AND

                    ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS, AND THEN BEING ABLE TO, IN AN ALTERNATIVE FORM OF

                    PROOF THAT I JUST PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, BE ABLE TO UTILIZE AND MAKING

                    THE SUBMISSION OF THE CLAIM TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY, AGAIN, WHEN IT'S

                    DONE FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROTECTING THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE

                    INHABITANTS IN THE SURROUNDING AREA.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, UNDER CURRENT REGULATIONS,

                    AM I CORRECT, INSURANCE -- INSURERS, INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE REQUIRED

                    TO COMMENCE AN INVESTIGATION OF ANY CLAIM FILED WITHIN 15 DAYS OF

                    RECEIVING THE CLAIM; THAT'S CURRENT REGULATIONS, RIGHT?

                                 MR. STERN:  THAT'S CURRENT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  YES, AND THEY, UNDER CURRENT LAW,

                    THEY HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO ACT IN GOOD FAITH, RIGHT?

                                 MR. STERN:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND THEY HAVE CIVIL LIABILITY IF THEY

                    DON'T.

                                 MR. STERN:  SURE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

                                 ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AS I NOTED, I APPRECIATE THE DESIRE

                    THAT ALL OF US HAVE TO HAVE INSURANCE CLAIMS REVIEWED AS QUICKLY AS

                                         146



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    POSSIBLE AND, IN FACT, CURRENT REGULATIONS REQUIRE THE INSURANCE

                    COMPANY TO RESPOND WITHIN 15 DAYS, WHICH IS A VERY FAST RESPONSE.  I'M

                    JUST VERY CONCERNED THAT WE HAVE VERY, VERY SERIOUS UNINTENDED

                    CONSEQUENCES WHEN WE HAVE LEGISLATION OF THIS NATURE THAT IMPOSES

                    VERY TIGHT TIME FRAMES THAT WE KNOW ARE GOING TO BE EXTRAORDINARILY

                    DIFFICULT TO ACCOMPLISH WHEN YOU HAVE A VERY LARGE SCALE DISASTER.  AND

                    I'M MINDFUL ONCE OF A JUDGE IN A CASE OF MINE WHO SMILED AND SAID, DO

                    YOU WANT A FAST DECISION OR DO YOU WANT A GOOD DECISION?  AND HE

                    KIND OF SMILED AND I THINK I WAS WISE ENOUGH TO SAY I'D RATHER HAVE A

                    GOOD DECISION THAN A FAST DECISION, AND HE SAID, YOU CHOSE WISELY, MY

                    FRIEND.

                                 AND THAT CAN ALSO APPLY IN THIS CONTEXT.  YOU HAVE A

                    HURRICANE SANDY, THE INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T STAFF THEIR CLAIMS

                    OFFICES WITH, YOU KNOW, A MASSIVE NUMBER OF EVALUATORS WAITING FOR

                    DISASTER.  SO, AN INSURANCE COMPANY BRINGS IN ADJUSTERS FROM ALL

                    AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND THEY HAVE VERY SOPHISTICATED COMPUTERIZED

                    EQUIPMENT TO HELP THEM PROCESS THESE CLAIMS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

                    SO, THE PROBLEM ISN'T NORMALLY ON THE INSURANCE SIDE AS MUCH AS IT IS

                    ON THE CLAIMANT SIDE, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE A HOMEOWNER AND ALL OF YOUR

                    NEIGHBORS' HOUSES HAVE BEEN DAMAGED AND DESTROYED, IT IS ALMOST

                    IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO GET THE ARCHITECT, THE CONTRACTORS, THE

                    BUILDERS AND EVERYONE ELSE TO GIVE YOU THOSE ESTIMATES THAT YOU NEED

                    TO DOCUMENT YOUR CLAIM.  AND SO, I'M CONCERNED THAT IF WE PASS

                    LEGISLATION THAT SAYS THE INSURANCE COMPANY IS VIOLATING THE LAW IF THEY

                    DON'T GIVE YOU AN ANSWER WITHIN 15 DAYS, WHEN THE COMPLAINT -- OR

                                         147



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WHEN THE CLAIM IS COMPLETE, THEIR FIRST RESPONSE IS "INCOMPLETE", AND

                    THEY'LL JUST ORDER A RUBBER STAMP, "INCOMPLETE."

                                 MY SECOND CONCERN IS IF WE HAVE AN ARTIFICIAL TIME

                    FRAME, PARTICULARLY IN A DISASTER, THEY'LL TURN DOWN THE CLAIM, AND WE

                    DON'T WANT TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE A HOMEOWNER CAN'T REOPEN OR

                    RESTART THE CLAIM OR MOVE FORWARD WHEN THEIR HOMEOWNER'S THE ONE

                    THAT'S HAVING SUCH A TROUBLE DOCUMENTING THE CLAIM.  SO, AS MY

                    COLLEAGUE, MR. GARBARINO, MENTIONED, IT'S VERY CHALLENGING IN THOSE

                    LARGE SCALE DISASTERS, BUT OUR EXPERIENCE AS REFLECTED IN THAT REPORT CARD

                    IS THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE DONE A VERY GOOD JOB, BY AND

                    LARGE - THERE'S ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS - AND CURRENT LAW ALREADY PROTECTS THE

                    CONSUMER BY REQUIRING GOOD FAITH EFFORTS WITHOUT ARTIFICIAL DEADLINES.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER AND, AGAIN,

                    THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.  I ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR FRANK RESPONSES

                    AND CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR DESIRE THAT WE ALL SHARE THAT WE GET THESE

                    CLAIMS ADDRESSED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.  THANK YOU, SIR.  THANK YOU,

                    MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 255.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                                         148



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 AND MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION, BUT IF

                    THERE ARE MEMBERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT IT, PLEASE CALL THE

                    MINORITY LEADERS'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU SO MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MS. HUNTER.

                                 MS. HUNTER:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THIS IS

                    A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO VOTE NO

                    SHOULD CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    HUNTER.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 AND MR. STERN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. STERN:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, AND --

                    AND BEST WISHES TO MR. GOODELL AND TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, SIR.

                                 TO MY COLLEAGUES, YOU KNOW, AFTER A NATURAL DISASTER

                    OR AN EMERGENCY, HOPEFULLY THERE IS NO LOSS OF LIFE, BUT THEN, FOR TOO

                    MANY, LIVING COMES TO A HALT WHEN A HOME AND/OR IMPORTANT PERSONAL

                    BELONGINGS ARE DAMAGED OR DESTROYED AFTER A DISASTER.  MANY OF OUR

                    NEIGHBORS EXPERIENCE LOSS.  THAT LOSS, THEN, TURNS TO ANXIETY, IT TURNS TO

                    FEAR, ANGER AND THEN ULTIMATELY FOR SO MANY IN OUR COMMUNITIES, IT

                    TURNS TO RAGE WHEN THERE IS THIS UNDUE DELAY BY THEIR INSURANCE

                                         149



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    COMPANY IN GETTING BACK TO THEIR LIVES, AND THAT IS JUST SIMPLY

                    UNACCEPTABLE.

                                 AND SO, I URGE ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE YES AND

                    SUPPORT THEIR NEIGHBORS IN NEED AFTER DISASTER STRIKES.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    STERN.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    PLEASE RECORD THE FOLLOWING REPUBLICAN MEMBERS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON

                    THIS LEGISLATION:  MS. MILLER, MS. MALLIOTAKIS, MR. REILLY AND MR. RA.

                    THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  SO NOTED, THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07372, CALENDAR NO.

                    267, PAULIN, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO TRANSFERS OF CABLE SYSTEMS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MS. PAULIN, AN

                    EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I'D BE HAPPY TO.  THE BILL

                    (UNINTELLIGIBLE/MIC NOT ON) -- A PERMANENT OR PUBLIC INTEREST REVIEW

                    STANDARD OR REVIEWING CABLE CORPORATION MERGERS OR ACQUISITIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MR. PALMESANO.

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YES, MADAM SPEAKER, WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU, AMY.  I HAVE A FEW

                    QUESTIONS.  I THINK THEY'RE PRETTY QUICK ANSWERS ON SOME OF THEM.

                    RIGHT NOW, DON'T CABLE COMPANIES OPERATE UNDER A SEPARATE AND UNIQUE

                    FRANCHISE THAT FOLLOWS REALLY EXTENSIVE AND STRICT FEDERAL AND STATE

                    REGULATIONS TO OPERATE THEIR CURRENT CABLE SYSTEMS?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THEY DO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  AND A LOT OF THESE FRANCHISE

                    DOCUMENTS ARE NEGOTIATED IN A WAY TO ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF THE PROVIDER

                    AND THE COMMUNITIES, BUT -- BUT ALL OF THEM MUST RECEIVE PSC

                    APPROVAL, CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THEY DO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  AND THE EXISTING STATUTORY

                    FRAMEWORK RIGHT NOW IS RECOGNIZED THAT WHEN THE FRANCHISE TRANSFERS --

                    THE EXISTING STATUTORY FRAMEWORK RECOGNIZES FRANCHISE TRANSFERS EXCEPT

                    IN CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THE PSC AND THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE

                    DETERMINE THE TRANSFER IS NOT IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST, CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  AND UNDER THE EXISTING

                    FRAMEWORK, BOTH THE COMPANIES PARTICIPATING -- BOTH COMPANIES

                    PARTICIPATING IN THE TRANSFER MUST ADHERE TO THE EXISTING FRANCHISE

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AGREEMENTS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO THIS IS WHERE I HAVE SOME

                    QUESTIONS RELATIVE TO PARTS I THINK IN THE BILL THAT GET A LITTLE CONFUSING.

                    IN SECTION 3A IT STATES THAT - AND I'M PARAPHRASING - UNDER CURRENT LAW,

                    QUOTE, "IT SHOULD NOT PRECLUDE APPROVAL" -- "UNDER CURRENT LAW, IT

                    SHOULD NOT PRECLUDE APPROVAL OF ANY APPLICATION IF THE COMMISSION

                    FINDS THAT SUCH APPROVAL WOULD SERVE THE PUBLIC INTEREST."  THAT'S IN

                    SECTION 3A, BUT THEN THE SECTION 3B -- SECTION 3B, IT GOES DOWN -- THE

                    NEW SECTION GOES DOWN AND SAYS, "THE COMMISSION SHALL NOT APPROVE

                    THE APPLICATIONS FOR A TRANSFER OR FRANCHISE, ANY TRANSFER OR CONTROL OF A

                    FRANCHISE, OR CERTIFICATE OF CONFIRMATION, UNLESS THE APPLICANT CONFORMS

                    TO THE STANDARDS ESTABLISHING AND THE REGULATIONS THAT ARE PROMULGATED,

                    AND THE TRANSFER IS OTHERWISE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST."  SO, IT APPEARS THAT

                    THIS LANGUAGE CONTRADICTS ITSELF.  WHY -- WHY THE CHANGE IN THE

                    LANGUAGE HERE, AND WHY IS THAT NECESSARY?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THIS IS MERELY CODIFYING WHAT IT --

                    WAS EXISTING LAW THROUGH 2017 AND EXPIRED.  THE IDEA IS, YES, THAT A

                    COMPANY NEEDS TO -- IT'S ALREADY STATED IN THE LAW THAT THEY NEED TO --

                    THAT NONE OF THIS CAN HAPPEN UNLESS IT'S IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST, BUT IT

                    CHANGES THE BURDEN OF PROOF.  SO, THIS REQUIRES UPFRONT FOR THE

                    COMPANY TO SHOW WITH PROOF THAT IT'S CONFORMING TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST

                    WHERE, THE OTHER WAY AROUND, IT'S MUCH MORE BURDENSOME AND MUCH

                    MORE EXPENSIVE FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION AND THE TAXPAYERS,

                    OR THE RATEPAYERS THAT PAY THOSE FEES, TO REQUIRE THE PROOF ON THE OTHER

                                         152



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SIDE.  SO, THIS WILL SAVE RESOURCES FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION.

                    IT MERELY GOES BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS IN -- UP TO 2017 AND IT REALLY

                    DOESN'T CHANGE THE REQUIREMENT FOR PUBLIC INTEREST.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO, YOU DON'T FEEL THAT THE

                    PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION AND THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE HAS

                    THE ABILITY TO DO THE JOB THAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING TO -- TO TAKE ON THIS

                    REGULATION, AND -- ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH A COMPETITIVE

                    INDUSTRY LIKE THE CABLE INDUSTRY?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I THINK THAT IT WILL ALLOW THE PUBLIC

                    SERVICE COMMISSION TO DO AN EVEN BETTER JOB, OR FOR THOSE OF US WHO

                    HAVE CABLE, AND TO ENSURE TO THE PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, AT A TIME WHEN WE

                    RELY ON THE TECHNOLOGY SO MUCH MORE THAN WE EVER DID BEFORE, IT WILL

                    -- IT WILL PROVIDE ANOTHER TOOL FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO

                    ASSURE THE PUBLIC THAT THESE COMPANIES ARE LIVING UP TO WHAT WE NEED

                    THEM TO DO AT THIS TIME IN OUR CRISIS.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YES, MADAM SPEAKER, MY

                    COLLEAGUES, THE CABLE-TELECOMMUNICATION INDUSTRY EMPLOYS 20,000

                    NEW YORKERS.  IT GENERATES $100 MILLION IN TAXES AND FEES TO THE STATE

                    AND TO OUR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES.  THEY ALREADY HAVE A STRICT REGULATORY

                    FRAMEWORK IN PLACE FROM FEDERAL AND STATE LEVEL, AND THE DEPARTMENT

                    OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION EVALUATES, REVIEWS

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND APPROVES AND DETERMINES IF IT'S IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST, THAT'S THEIR

                    JOB AS A PUBLIC AGENCY.

                                 COMPANIES PARTICIPATING IN THIS TRANSFER, THEY MUST

                    ADHERE TO THE EXISTING FRAMEWORK OF FRANCHISE AGREEMENTS THAT WERE IN

                    PLACE THAT ADDRESSED THAT (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ALREADY.  THIS BILL, HOWEVER,

                    UPENDS THAT FRAMEWORK TO PLACE AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN ON COMPANIES TO

                    TRANSFER THIS -- FOR THIS TRANSFER, SIMILAR TO THE MONOPOLY ERA ENERGY

                    UTILITY MODEL.  THIS JUST BASICALLY JUST COMPLICATES, CHANGES, CONFUSES

                    THE PROCESS, IN MY OPINION, TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE PUBLIC, AND IT DOES

                    NOT REALLY NEED TO HAPPEN.  CONFORMITY WITH THE LAW IS ACCEPTED IN A

                    RECOGNIZED PRECURSOR THROUGH BRANDING FRANCHISE.  IN SAYING THAT THE

                    CABLE FRANCHISE MUST PROVE THE TRANSFER'S IN THE PUBLIC'S INTEREST, WHEN

                    THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND THE PSC, WHO ARE CHARGED WITH

                    PROTECTING THE PUBLIC INTEREST, HAS THAT RESPONSIBILITY, THIS CREATES A

                    NEW BURDEN ON AN INDUSTRY WHICH COULD LEAD TO MORE DELAYS IN

                    APPROVALS, DENYING RESIDENTS IN OFTEN HARD-TO-SERVE AREAS, ACCESS TO

                    MODERN CABLE SERVICES AND TECHNOLOGY, WHICH COULD STIFLE INVESTMENT

                    AND LEAD TO LESS ACCESS TO THIS TECHNOLOGY TO LOWER-INCOME AND RURAL

                    AREAS.

                                 WE KNOW THE VIDEO MARKET IS HIGHLY COMPETITIVE, AND

                    CUSTOMERS HAVE NUMEROUS OPTIONS, WIRELESS -- WIRELINE CABLE, INTERNET

                    PROTOCOL, VIDEO STREAMING, A SATELLITE AND HIGH DEFINITION.  COMPANIES

                    ARE INVESTING IN STATE-OF-THE-ART FIBER AND HARDWARE NETWORKS TO BRING

                    BROADBAND SPEEDS UP FOR THE PUBLIC AND TO INCREASE ACCESS TO

                    TECHNOLOGY, BUT WE STILL FACE MANY CHALLENGES TO GET THIS INVESTMENT, TO

                                         154



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    GET THIS EXPANSION HAPPENING FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE, IS BECAUSE OF

                    POLICIES THAT ARE MAYBE ILL-ADVISED, UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, I

                    BELIEVE THIS IS ONE OF THOSE BILLS THAT WILL DO THAT.

                                 ANOTHER SUCH BILL THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, THE

                    RIGHT-OF-WAY TAX THAT WAS ADDRESSED AS PART OF THE BUDGET LAST YEAR.

                    THIS IS WHERE IT PUTS A TAX ON OUR FIBER LINES -- ON PROVIDERS INSTALLING

                    LINES ALONG THE RIGHT-OF-WAY ON THE STATE, WHICH IS TOTALLY

                    COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO WHAT THE STATE'S BEEN TRYING TO PROMOTE TO

                    EXPAND BROADBAND AND ACCESS TO THIS TECHNOLOGY.  IT'S A DISINCENTIVE TO

                    INVESTMENT.  IT WILL ONLY HINDER ACCESS AND EXPANSION TO THE MANY

                    CHILDREN AND THEIR FAMILIES IN OUR -- IN OUR LOWER-INCOME AND RURAL

                    AREAS THAT DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THIS TECHNOLOGY, CAN'T ACCESS IT BECAUSE

                    OF THE CHALLENGES WE HAVE BECAUSE OF OTHER ASPECTS.  AND THIS IS AT A

                    TIME WHEN OUR KIDS AND FAMILIES NEED IT MOST.  AS WE TALKED ABOUT

                    YESTERDAY, THIS ACCESS TO TECHNOLOGY, INTERNET ACCESS, THIS WAS A

                    PROBLEM BEFORE COVID CAME HERE, BUT IT BECAME CLEARLY EVIDENT AFTER

                    COVID ARRIVED AND OUR SCHOOLS HAD TO RESORT TO REMOTE TECHNOLOGY

                    AND REMOTE LEARNING, WHICH DOES NOT WORK.  IT DOES NOT PROVIDE THE

                    SERVICES AND EDUCATION OUR CHILDREN NEED.

                                 SO, THIS BILL AND THE RIGHT-OF-WAY TAX, THESE ARE STEPS

                    IN THE WRONG DIRECTION THAT WILL, I THINK, NOT HELP EXPAND ACCESS TO THIS

                    CRITICAL SERVICE AND NEED.  IN MY OPINION, IT'S JUST GOING TO HINDER THAT

                    ACCESS, IT'S GOING TO BECOME MORE COSTLY AND MORE CHALLENGING TO

                    EXPAND AND DEVELOP THIS -- DEVELOP THIS ACCESS TO THE PUBLIC WHO

                    DESPERATELY NEED IT SO THEY CAN DO THE THINGS THEY NEED TO DO AND

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    IMPROVE THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE.  SO FOR THAT REASON, MR. -- MADAM

                    SPEAKER -- MR. SPEAKER, AND MY COLLEAGUES, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE

                    NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

                    THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 267.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE, THERE ARE CERTAINLY MANY MEMBERS WHO WILL BE VOTING NO,

                    BUT IF A MEMBER WOULD LIKE TO VOTE YES ON THIS BILL, PLEASE CALL THE

                    MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. CRYSTAL PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS WILL BE A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  SHOULD

                    MEMBERS DESIRE TO VOTE NEGATIVELY ON THIS ONE, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO

                    CALL THE OFFICE AND WE WILL RECORD THEIR VOTE AS ASKED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING MEMBERS AS VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE:  MR. ASHBY, MR.

                    BARCLAY, MR. CROUCH, MS. MILLER, MR. RA AND MR. REILLY.  THANK YOU,

                    SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  SO

                    NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER

                    AND COLLEAGUES.  LET'S CONTINUE OUR WORK ON THE DEBATE LIST.  WE'RE

                    GOING TO GO WITH CALENDAR NO. 318, CALENDAR NO. 331 -- OH, EXCUSE

                    ME, CALENDAR NO. 318 IS BY MEMBER GLICK.  CALENDAR NO. 331 IS BY

                    MR. THIELE, CALENDAR NO. 358 BY MS. PAULIN, CALENDAR NO. 391,

                    ABINANTI, AND CALENDAR NO. 401, MR. DILAN.  IN THAT ORDER, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08212, CALENDAR NO.

                    318, GLICK, SIMON, GOTTFRIED, JAFFEE, GRIFFIN, L. ROSENTHAL, MOSLEY,

                    LENTOL, SIMOTAS, EPSTEIN, BUCHWALD, BLAKE, OTIS, WRIGHT.  AN ACT

                    AUTHORIZING THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A STUDY AND ISSUE A

                    REPORT EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND RESOURCE NEEDS FACING PREGNANT

                    WOMEN IN NEW YORK AND THE IMPACT OF LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY

                    CENTERS ON THE ABILITY OF WOMEN TO OBTAIN ACCURATE, NON-COERCIVE

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    HEALTH CARE INFORMATION AND TIMELY ACCESS TO A COMPREHENSIVE RANGE OF

                    REPRODUCTIVE AND SEXUAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. GLICK.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I AM VERY

                    UNACCUSTOMED TO DEBATING A BILL SITTING DOWN.  IT'S A NEW EXPERIENCE.

                    THE BILL WOULD REQUIRE THE NEW YORK STATE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO

                    CONDUCT A STUDY AND ISSUE A REPORT EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND

                    RESOURCE NEEDS FACING NEW YORK STATE PREGNANT WOMEN.  IN ADDITION,

                    IT WOULD REQUIRE THE COMMISSIONER TO INDICATE THE IMPACT OF LIMITED

                    SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS - THESE ARE KNOWN AS CRISIS PREGNANCY

                    CENTERS - ON THE ABILITY OF WOMEN TO OBTAIN ACCURATE AND NON-COERCIVE

                    REPRODUCTIVE AND SEXUAL HEALTHCARE INFORMATION.  NOW THE BILL

                    SPECIFICALLY DEFINES A LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTER AS A FACILITY THAT

                    PRIMARILY PROVIDES SERVICES TO CLIENTS WHO ARE OR MAY BE PREGNANT.  IT

                    IS NOT A LICENSED HEALTHCARE FACILITY, OR IS NOT PROVIDING SERVICES UNDER

                    THE DIRECTION OF A LICENSED HEALTHCARE PROVIDER AND FAILS TO PROVIDE OR

                    REFER FOR THE FULL RANGE OF COMPREHENSIVE REPRODUCTIVE SEXUAL

                    HEALTHCARE SERVICES.  IN ADDITION, WE WOULD REQUIRE THE COMMISSIONER

                    TO -- AS PART OF THIS REPORT TO LOOK AT THE -- WHETHER THESE CENTERS

                    RECEIVE ANY PUBLIC FUNDS OR SUBSIDIES, AND WHETHER THEY ARE PART OF A

                    LARGER ORGANIZATION AND WHAT SERVICES THEY PROVIDE AND WHAT ARE THE

                    SERVICE -- SERVICES THAT ARE MOST REQUESTED.  IN ADDITION, WE WOULD

                    WANT TO KNOW THE NUMBER OF WOMEN THAT ACCESS THESE SERVICES AND

                    THEIR GEOGRAPHIC AND DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION, AND WHETHER OR NOT

                                         158



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THEY -- THESE SERVICE CENTERS HOLD THEMSELVES OUT TO THE PUBLIC AS

                    MEDICAL FACILITIES AND THE NATURE OF THE INFORMATION THAT THEY PROVIDE

                    TO CLIENTS WHO THEY SERVICE, AND WHETHER THEY COLLECT ANY MEDICAL

                    INFORMATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. GLICK:  BUT OF COURSE.  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MS. GLICK.  I -- I MUST

                    CONFESS THAT I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THIS PHRASE "LIMITED SERVICES

                    PREGNANCY CENTER."  AS FAR AS I KNOW, I DON'T HAVE ANY IN MY DISTRICT.

                    BUT IT'S CLEAR THAT YOU'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THESE LIMITED SERVICES

                    PREGNANCY CENTERS.  WHAT STUDIES OR INFORMATION HAS ALREADY BEEN

                    CORRELATED REGARDING THESE FACILITIES?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, GENERALLY SPEAKING, A LOT OF THE

                    INFORMATION HAS NOT BEEN CORRELATED BY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT SO

                    MUCH AS ORGANIZATIONS THAT REVIEW FROM AN -- MORE OF AN ANECDOTAL

                    REPORTING.  AND SO WE ARE CONCERNED THAT THEY ADVERTISE CERTAIN

                    SERVICES SUCH AS A FREE PREGNANCY TEST OR AN ULTRASOUND, AND YET THESE --

                    AND SINCE IT'S FREE AND ANECDOTALLY THEY ARE IN MANY POOR COMMUNITIES

                    OR IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES, THEY ARE ATTRACTIVE BECAUSE THEY ARE

                    OFFERING A FREE SERVICE TO SOMEBODY WHO IS CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    OR NOT THEY'RE PREGNANT.  AND THERE HAS BEEN SOME DOCUMENTATION THAT

                    THEY MAY ENGAGE IN MISLEADING INFORMATION AS A WAY OF DELAYING

                    WOMEN SEEKING ABORTION SERVICES.  BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE NOT

                    ANECDOTAL INFORMATION FROM CONCERNED ORGANIZATIONS, LIKE THE NATIONAL

                    COUNCIL OF JEWISH WOMEN, OR THE NATIONAL LATINA INSTITUTE OF

                    REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH AND THOSE ORGANIZATIONS.  WE'D LIKE THE STATE TO

                    TAKE A LOOK AT THIS SO THAT WE HAVE ACCURATE INFORMATION TO SEE IF THE --

                    WHAT RANGE OF SERVICES THEY ARE PROVIDING AND, GENERALLY SPEAKING,

                    THEY DO NOT SEEM TO HAVE LICENSED HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS AVAILABLE.

                    WE'D LIKE TO KNOW WHETHER THAT IS OR IS NOT TRUE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  IS IT ACCURATE, THEN, TO SAY THAT YOUR

                    PRIMARY CONCERN IS WITH ORGANIZATIONS THAT CONSULT AGAINST ABORTION

                    AND DO NOT PROVIDE ABORTION SERVICES?  IS THAT ACCURATE?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE EXTENT

                    OF THE SERVICES THAT ARE SUGGESTED THAT THEY PROVIDE AND WHETHER OR NOT

                    THEY ARE PROVIDING THEM, AND TO WHAT EXTENT THEY ARE -- THEY EXIST

                    AROUND THE STATE.  AND, YES, WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHETHER WOMEN

                    ARE ENCOURAGED TO COME INTO A FACILITY THAT IS -- THAT MAY APPEAR TO BE A

                    MEDICAL FACILITY BUT IS, IN FACT, NOT.  AND WE BELIEVE IN GENERAL IN TRUTH

                    IN ADVERTISING AS A GENERAL PRINCIPLE.  AND SO WE WANT TO BE CERTAIN

                    THAT WOMEN WHO ARE TRYING TO AVAIL THEMSELVES OF MEDICAL SERVICES ARE

                    NOT DIVERTED FROM THAT BY MISINFORMATION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND DO YOU HAVE DOCUMENTATION

                    THAT ANY OF THESE FACILITIES HAVE ENGAGED IN FRAUDULENT ADVERTISING?

                    WE ALREADY, OF COURSE, HAVE RULES AND REGULATIONS PROHIBITING

                                         160



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    FRAUDULENT ADVERTISING IN THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW AND -- AND OTHER

                    CONTEXTS.  IS THERE ANY DOCUMENTATION THAT THERE'S ANYTHING THAT'S

                    OCCURRING THAT IS FRAUDULENT IN ANY WAY?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, AGAIN, THERE ARE ORGANIZATIONS

                    THAT ARE -- THAT HAVE HAD INDIVIDUALS REPORT TO THEM THAT THEY SAW AN

                    ADVERTISEMENT FOR A FREE PREGNANCY TEST AND THEY RECEIVED A PREGNANCY

                    TEST BUT WERE --

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND IT WAS FREE.

                                 MS. GLICK: -- AND IT WAS FREE.  BUT THAT THEIR DESIRE

                    FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT WAS HEALTH INFORMATION, TECHNICAL

                    INFORMATION, WAS NOT AVAILABLE TO THEM ALTHOUGH THEY BELIEVED FROM

                    WHATEVER THEY SAW THAT IT WOULD BE.  AND SO, AGAIN, THIS HAS BEEN

                    ANECDOTAL.  AND SO IT'S -- THIS BILL IS INTENDED TO ENSURE THAT WHAT WE

                    ARE OPERATING ON IS INFORMATION THAT HAS, IN FACT, BEEN VERIFIED BY THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.  WE KNOW THAT PRENATAL CARE IS EXTREMELY

                    IMPORTANT AND THAT THERE IS A BALANCE BETWEEN WOMEN WHO WANT TO

                    CONTINUE A PREGNANCY AND THOSE WHO DON'T WANT TO CONTINUE A

                    PREGNANCY, AND WE WANT TO BE SURE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY ARE

                    INTENDING TO CONTINUE A PREGNANCY OR NOT, THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY

                    RECEIVING INFORMATION FROM A -- AN APPROPRIATE HEALTHCARE PROVIDER AND

                    NOT FROM SOMEBODY WITH A PARTICULAR PHILOSOPHICAL APPROACH.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND THAT PHILOSOPHICAL APPROACH

                    THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE PHILOSOPHICAL APPROACH THAT'S

                    GENERALLY OPPOSED TO ABORTIONS?  WOULD THAT BE CORRECT?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, THAT, IN PART, HAS CERTAINLY BEEN

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SOME OF THE CLAIMS THAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM SOME OF THE WOMEN WHO

                    HAVE THOUGHT THEY WERE ACCESSING HEALTHCARE, ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT THEY

                    WERE NOT ACCESSING HEALTHCARE FROM A LICENSED FACILITY.  BUT IT'S NOT JUST

                    ABORTION SERVICES.  PRENATAL CARE IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, AS WE'VE

                    HEARD FROM -- IN RELATION TO OTHER BILLS THAT WE'VE TAKEN UP IN THE LAST

                    COUPLE OF DAYS, AND SOMEBODY WHO IS SEEKING PRENATAL CARE SHOULD, IN

                    FACT, BE GETTING THAT FROM SOMEBODY WHO IS A HEALTHCARE PROVIDER.  AND

                    THAT IS AS MUCH A CONCERN AS WHETHER OR NOT SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, IS

                    SEEKING TO TERMINATE A PREGNANCY OR TO CONTINUE A PREGNANCY.

                    REGARDLESS, THEY SHOULD BE GETTING ACCURATE HEALTHCARE INFORMATION

                    FROM A HEALTHCARE PROVIDER.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  CERTAINLY, WE ROUTINELY PASS

                    LEGISLATION, IT SEEMS, THAT REQUIRES FULL DISCLOSURE AND WARNINGS AND

                    RECOMMENDATIONS AND ADVICE.  IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS BILL, FOR

                    EXAMPLE, THAT WOULD REQUIRE A LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTER TO

                    ACTUALLY PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION?  THERE'S NOTHING IN THIS BILL THAT

                    WOULD SAY YOU NEED TO, YOU KNOW, PROVIDE A WARNING LIKE WE JUST

                    PASSED A BILL ABOUT WEIGHT LOSS PROGRAMS, FOR EXAMPLE, A WARNING THAT

                    SAYS --

                                 MS. GLICK:  NOT YET.  NOT YET --

                                 MR. GOODELL:  -- YOU SHOULD GET PERSONAL PRENATAL

                    CARE FROM A LICENSED PHYSICIAN OR AN OB-GYN OR -- OR WHATEVER.  IS

                    THERE ANY --

                                 MS. GLICK:  THAT IS MY --

                                 MR. GOODELL:  -- ANYTHING THAT DEALS WITH --

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MS. GLICK:  THAT'S MY NEXT BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THAT'S NEXT --

                                 MS. GLICK:  THAT'S MY NEXT BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I SEE.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THAT'S MY NEXT BILL.  AND WITH THIS BILL

                    --

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WOULD THIS BILL APPLY TO PREGNANCY

                    CENTERS, IF YOU WILL, THAT ARE OPERATED BY A PRO-ABORTION -- PLANNED

                    PARENTHOOD, FOR EXAMPLE, OR IS THAT REALLY NOT THE SCOPE OF THIS BILL?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, THIS BILL REFERS TO BILLS THAT -- TO

                    FACILITIES THAT ARE NOT PROVIDING SERVICES UNDER THE DIRECTION OF A

                    LICENSED HEALTHCARE PROVIDER.  I BELIEVE THE FACILITY THAT YOU REFERRED TO

                    DO, IN FACT, HAVE LICENSED HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE RUNNING

                    THOSE FACILITIES.  WE BELIEVE THAT THERE IS AN ISSUE, BUT AT THE MOMENT

                    THAT IS ANECDOTAL.  AND WHILE I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED WITH MY NEXT

                    BILL, WHICH WOULD BE A DISCLOSURE BILL, WE FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR US

                    TO HAVE NOT ANECDOTAL INFORMATION COMPILED BY INDIVIDUALS, BUT RATHER,

                    A HARD AND FAST STUDY PROVIDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO REVIEW

                    WHAT SERVICES ARE BEING OFFERED AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE

                    APPROPRIATE IN VIEW OF THE FACT THAT THEY'RE -- THEY ARE NOT UNDER THE

                    DIRECTION OF A LICENSED HEALTHCARE PROVIDER.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. GLICK.

                    I ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WHILE I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S

                    DESIRE TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY ON LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY

                    CENTERS, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THIS IS REALLY AIMED AT EXAMINING FACILITIES

                    THAT HELP PREGNANT WOMEN AND PROVIDE COUNSELING THAT MAY HAVE A

                    PARTICULAR POINT OF VIEW THAT MAY BE A PRO-LIFE POINT OF VIEW, FOR

                    EXAMPLE, AND THE SPONSOR MENTIONED THAT A COUPLE OF TIMES.  AND THE

                    MOST PROMINENT ABORTION -- PRO-ABORTION ORGANIZATION THAT WE'RE AWARE

                    OF, PLANNED PARENTHOOD -- WHILE THEY DON'T URGE PEOPLE TO GET

                    ABORTIONS, THEY CERTAINLY ARE THE LEADING PROVIDER -- THEY WOULD BE

                    EXEMPT FROM THIS.  AND I ALWAYS FIND IT A VERY DANGEROUS COURSE WHEN

                    GOVERNMENT SPENDS TAXPAYER MONEY TO INVESTIGATE ORGANIZATIONS IN

                    LARGE PART BASED ON THEIR PHILOSOPHICAL PERSPECTIVE.  AND YOU MAY BE

                    PRO-CHOICE, YOU MAY BE PRO-ABORTION.  BUT I THINK GOVERNMENT SHOULD

                    NOT INITIATE STUDIES THAT FOCUS ON ONE GROUP AND NOT ON A DIFFERENT

                    GROUP.  IF WE WANT TO EVALUATE ALL THE GROUPS THAT PROVIDE COUNSELING

                    SERVICES TO PREGNANT WOMEN, I'M FINE WITH THAT KIND OF STUDY BECAUSE

                    THAT TYPE OF STUDY CAN GIVE YOU THE DATA ON EVERYONE, AND THE

                    ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES.  BUT TO TARGET ONE GROUP AND SPEND

                    TAXPAYER MONEY TO INVESTIGATE THEM, I THINK IT'S AN INAPPROPRIATE USE OF

                    OUR AUTHORITY.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.  AND AGAIN, THANK YOU TO

                    MY COLLEAGUE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO.

                                         164



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN

                    GOVERNMENT TERRORISM.  THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO TAKE A GROUP THAT'S

                    PRO-LIFE MOSTLY AND USE GOVERNMENT TERRORISM TO SHUT THEM DOWN, TO

                    INTIMIDATE THEM, TO DO WHATEVER THEY HAVE TO.  AND MAKE NO MISTAKE,

                    THIS IS BEING DIRECTED BY MANY PEOPLE AT PLANNED PARENTHOOD.  YOU CAN

                    JUST TELL BY THE FACT THAT PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS NOT INVOLVED IN ANY OF

                    THIS GOVERNMENT TERRORISM.  IT'S ONLY AIMED AT ONE GROUP.  FOR SHAME

                    THAT A GROUP SAYS, YOU KNOW WHAT?  WE VALUE LIFE.  FOR SHAME THAT A

                    GROUP SAYS, YOU SHOULD SEE A SONOGRAM, KNOWING THAT 70 PERCENT OF

                    WOMEN THAT SEE THE SONOGRAM WILL ACTUALLY CHOOSE TO KEEP THE BABY.

                    TO THE PRO-DEATH CROWD THAT'S JUST -- THAT'S JUST -- THAT'S HORRIBLE THEY

                    CAN'T HAVE THAT.  THE HEARTBEAT BILL.  THEY CAN'T SEE THAT.  THIS IS

                    NOTHING MORE THAN GOVERNMENT TERRORISM, TRYING TO INTIMIDATE A GROUP.

                    AND IT WAS EVEN JUST SAID, THERE IS NO -- THEY'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG.

                    THERE --  THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S BEEN SAID THAT THEY'VE DONE WRONG.

                    THERE'S NO -- NO ACTION.  THERE'S BEEN NO COMPLAINT THAT THEY VIOLATED

                    ANY LAW.  I'M JUST REALLY UPSET THAT, AGAIN, WE GO AFTER PRO-LIFE CROWDS.

                    THE PRO-LIFE GROUP HERE, NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS GROUP.  THEY'RE

                    ACTUALLY GIVING -- DOING A GREAT SERVICE TO THE WOMEN, PROMOTING LIFE,

                    AND I WILL -- I WILL -- I WOULD GLADLY DEFEND THEM IF I COULD.  BUT MAKE

                    NO MISTAKE.  THIS IS A COMPLETE ATTACK FROM THE PRO-LEFT, PRO-CHOICE,

                    PRO-BABY KILLING CROWD GOING AFTER A GROUP THAT HAS JUST ADMITTED THAT

                    THERE -- THAT WE JUST HEARD HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG.  BUT WE DEFINITELY

                                         165



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    HAVE TO GO INVESTIGATE THAT, EVEN THOUGH THEY'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG.

                    WE'VE HAD HEARSAY THAT MAYBE A DOCTOR, SOMEONE WASN'T A DOCTOR --

                    WHEN YOU'RE DOING COUNSELING IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.  IT MAKES NO

                    DIFFERENCE IF YOU'RE A DOCTOR.  YOU WANT TO ALLOW SOMEONE TO COME IN

                    AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?  THIS IS YOUR OPTIONS.  YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A

                    DOCTOR TO GIVE OPTIONS.  THEY'RE NOT PERFORMING SURGERY, THEY'RE

                    COUNSELING.  GOD BLESS THEM.  I HOPE 1,000 MORE OPEN UP IN NEW YORK

                    STATE, THE NUMBER ONE ABORTION MURDER CAPITAL IN THE WORLD.

                                 WITH THAT, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WILL BE

                    DEFINITELY VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I AM DEFINITELY URGING EVERY

                    SINGLE ONE OF MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES AND ANYONE ELSE WHO'S -- ANY

                    -- GOT ANY KIND OF PRO-LIFE TO VOTE AGAINST THIS HORRIBLE LEGISLATION.  IT

                    DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BUT INFLICTS GOVERNMENT TERRORISM ON A SMALL

                    GROUP BECAUSE THEY HAPPEN TO BE PRO-LIFE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THIS IS -- WE'RE GOING TO SEE

                    MORE OF THIS AS -- WHEN WE HAVE TOTAL ONE-PARTY CONTROL IN -- IN NEW

                    YORK STATE WHERE OPPONENTS WILL BE HUNTED DOWN AND INTIMIDATED AND

                    HARASSED.  I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION TO ASK.  YOU KNOW, WE HAD A --

                    DOWN IN PHILADELPHIA YOU HAD A DR. KERMIT GOSNELL WHO, THANKFULLY,

                    WAS PROSECUTED FOR MURDERING YOUNG CHILDREN AFTER THEY WERE ABORTED.

                                         166



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    BUT WHERE WERE THE ADVOCATES FOR LEGISLATION LIKE THIS TO GO AFTER THOSE

                    KINDS OF INDIVIDUALS?  THOSE KINDS OF PRACTICES ARE OVERLOOKED.  BUT

                    WE WANT TO GO AFTER PRO-LIFE GROUPS.

                                 I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS BILL.  IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT

                    IT'S BEING ADVANCED.  THIS WOULD BE A ONE-HOUSE BILL IF THE SENATE

                    WERE UNDER REPUBLICAN CONTROL, IF WE HAD MORE BALANCE IN THIS STATE.

                    BUT I URGE A NO VOTE ON THIS BILL.  THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO INTIMIDATE PRO-

                    LIFE GROUPS FROM SERVING WOMEN AND TRYING TO SAVE HUMAN LIFE.  THANK

                    YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MS. GLICK.

                                 MS. GLICK:  ON THE BILL AND ON SOME OF THE

                    COMMENTS MADE BY COLLEAGUES.  FIRST OF ALL, THE DOCTOR IN PHILADELPHIA

                    WHO WAS OPERATING INAPPROPRIATELY WAS PROSECUTED, PROSECUTED,

                    BECAUSE THAT WAS NOT HEALTHCARE.  SO I THINK THAT RAISING THAT INDIVIDUAL

                    AS SOME SORT OF MARKER OF APPROPRIATE HEALTHCARE IS CLEARLY WRONG

                    SINCE, IN FACT, THE INDIVIDUAL WAS PROSECUTED.  WE ARE NOT HUNTING

                    ANYONE DOWN.  I HAVE A BILL THAT I HOPE TO BE ABLE TO BRING FORWARD

                    WHICH WOULD SIMPLY REQUIRE THE -- ANY FACILITY TO DISCLOSE, AS PLANNED

                    PARENTHOOD, AS A LICENSED HEALTHCARE PROVIDER, DOES HAVE TO GET

                    INFORMED CONSENT, DOES HAVE TO PROVIDE APPROPRIATE INFORMATION,

                    ACCURATE INFORMATION.  THE AMA HAS, IN FACT, INDICATED THAT THESE

                    LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY CENTERS OPERATE UNETHICALLY.  WE HAVE HAD

                    INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SAID, I WAS LURED IN BY A PROMISE OF A FREE

                    PREGNANCY TEST BECAUSE I'M POOR AND I HAD NO CHOICE.  I DON'T HAVE

                                         167



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE.  AND THEN WHEN I ASKED FOR ADDITIONAL SERVICES I

                    WAS, YOU KNOW, DISCOURAGED AND BADGERED.  BUT I'M NOT TAKING THAT ON

                    ANECDOTAL.  I BELIEVE IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE STATE TO UNDER -- THE STATE TO

                    UNDERSTAND WHETHER WOMEN WHO MAY BE PREGNANT OR WOMEN WHO ARE

                    PREGNANT HAVE ACCURATE INFORMATION, WHETHER IT'S PRENATAL CARE -- THESE

                    FOLKS CAN'T PROVIDE PRENATAL CARE.  THEY DON'T PRETEND TO PROVIDE

                    PRENATAL CARE.  THEY ARE NOT LICENSED HEALTH FACILITIES.  THEY SUGGEST

                    THAT BY SAYING YOU CAN GET A FREE PREGNANCY TEST OR A FREE SONOGRAM.

                    BUT IN REALITY, BEYOND THAT THEY CANNOT PROVIDE ANY ADDITIONAL

                    HEALTHCARE.  SO IF SOMEONE HAS A PRENATAL CONDITION, A DELAY MIGHT BE A

                    PROBLEM.  AND SO THEY SHOULD, IN FACT, NOT BE ENCOURAGED TO GO INTO A

                    -- A FACILITY THAT DOES NOT PROPERLY SUPPORT THEM.  THEY SHOULD BE

                    GOING TO A HEALTHCARE FACILITY.  SO I BELIEVE -- AND THESE -- THE STATISTICS

                    THAT ARE THROWN OUT BY MY COLLEAGUES SOMETIMES ARE -- ARE LAUGHABLE.

                    MANY, MANY PEOPLE WHO SEE -- WHO ARE PREGNANT AND LEARN LATE IN

                    THEIR PREGNANCY THROUGH THE USE OF A SONOGRAM THAT THERE IS A

                    CATASTROPHIC PROBLEM WITH THEIR PREGNANCY, MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE SO

                    CONCERNED DON'T WANT THEM TO REACT TO THAT INFORMATION THAT THEY MIGHT

                    SEE IN A SONOGRAM ABOUT A CATASTROPHICALLY PROBLEMATIC PREGNANCY.

                                 SO I WOULD URGE -- THIS ISN'T TERRORISM, THIS IS

                    INFORMATION.  AND PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT PEOPLE GETTING

                    ACCURATE INFORMATION ARE THE PROBLEM.  SO I WOULD URGE -- YOU KNOW,

                    THIS DID NOT GO THROUGH WAYS AND MEANS.  WE BELIEVE THAT THIS

                    INFORMATION CAN BE GATHERED BY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT IN THE COURSE OF

                    THEIR NORMAL BUSINESS.  SO THIS ISN'T GOING TO COST MONEY.  THIS ISN'T AN

                                         168



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    INVESTIGATION.  THIS IS A STUDY TO IDENTIFY WHETHER OR NOT AND TO WHAT

                    EXTENT THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE -- EXIST THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND IN WHAT

                    COMMUNITIES.  AND WE PARTICULARLY BELIEVE THAT THEY DO TEND TO FOCUS

                    ON POOR WOMEN, IMMIGRANT WOMEN, WHO HAVE LIMITED ACCESS TO

                    HEALTHCARE.  SO I WOULD URGE A -- A YES VOTE FROM ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES

                    BECAUSE INFORMATION IS POSITIVE, NOT AN ATTACK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 318.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY NO ON THIS.

                    BUT IF THERE ARE MEMBERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION,

                    PLEASE CALL THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND LET THEM KNOW AS QUICKLY

                    AS POSSIBLE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  SO

                    NOTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  I WOULD ASK

                    COLLEAGUES WHO CHOOSE NOT TO VOTE WITH US ON THIS BILL TO PLEASE

                                         169



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    CONTACT THE OFFICE AND WE WILL SO RECORD YOUR VOTE.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I

                    JUST -- JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THE -- SINCE THIS LEGISLATION IS BEING INSPIRED

                    BY ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE I JUST WANTED TO EXPRESS TO THE SPONSOR THAT FOR

                    QUITE A LONG PERIOD OF TIME THERE WAS A LOT OF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ABOUT

                    WHAT DR. GOSNELL WAS DOING AND IT WAS ABSOLUTELY IGNORED UNTIL FINALLY

                    SOMEONE HAD TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

                                 SO, AGAIN, THIS CLEARLY IS AN ATTEMPT TO INTIMIDATE AND

                    GO AFTER PRO-LIFE ORGANIZATIONS, AND I URGE -- I URGE MY COLLEAGUES WHO

                    HAVE A HEART AND BELIEVE IN THE SANCTITY OF LIFE TO PLEASE VOTE NO ON THIS

                    LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. LAVINE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS IS

                    FROM THE JOURNAL OF ETHICS OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION.

                    CRISIS PREGNANCY CENTERS ARE ORGANIZATIONS THAT SEEK TO INTERCEPT

                    WOMEN WHO ARE PREGNANT WHO MIGHT CONSIDER AN ABORTION.  THEIR

                    MISSION IS TO PREVENT ABORTIONS BY PERSUADING WOMEN NOT TO HAVE

                    ABORTIONS.  THEY STRIVE TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THEY ARE CLINICAL

                    CENTERS, BUT THEY ARE NOT.  BECAUSE THE RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY OF THESE

                                         170



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    CENTERS' OWNERS AND EMPLOYEES TAKES PRIORITY OVER THE HEALTH AND

                    WELL-BEING OF THE WOMEN SEEKING CARE, THESE WOMEN DO NOT RECEIVE

                    TRUE, THEY DO NOT RECEIVE HONEST, THEY DO NOT RECEIVE COMPREHENSIVE

                    AND ACCURATE EVIDENCE-BASED CLINICAL INFORMATION.  ALTHOUGH THESE

                    CENTERS ENJOY FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS TO PROTECTION, THEIR PROPAGATION

                    OF MISINFORMATION SHOULD BE REGARDED AS AN ETHICAL VIOLATION AND

                    UNDERMINES WOMEN'S HEALTH.  OUR OBJECTIVE AS LEGISLATORS IS TO PROTECT

                    PEOPLE FROM BEING DECEIVED.  THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE FOOD AND --

                    FOOD, DRUG AND COSMETICS ACT.  THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTION ACT.  THE

                    FAIR CREDIT REPORTING AND BILLING ACT AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON.

                    AND LET ME SAY THAT WHILE I APPRECIATE THE FERVOR OF SOME OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES WHO WILL BE VOTING AGAINST THIS PARTICULAR BILL, I HAVE A

                    HEART AND I BELIEVE IN HUMAN RIGHTS AND I DO NOT WANT TO SEE US RETURN

                    TO THE DAY WHERE WOMEN ARE BUTCHERED IN BACK ALLEYS.

                                 SO, FINALLY, LET US DO WHAT WE CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT

                    ALL NEW YORKERS, MEN AND WOMEN, ARE PROTECTED.  AND TO THOSE MEN

                    WHO ARE SO FERVENTLY OPPOSED TO THIS, LET ME OFFER THIS MODEST

                    SUGGESTION:  PLEASE GUYS, DO YOUR BEST NOT TO BECOME PREGNANT.  I'M

                    PROUD TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DIPIETRO TO

                    EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  I FIND IT SO RICH THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN WHEN THERE'S BEEN NO

                    COMPLAINTS, THERE'S BEEN NO DOCUMENTATION, THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE

                    TALKING ABOUT BACK ALLEY ABORTIONS.  WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A GROUP THAT

                                         171



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    JUST GIVES ADVICE BECAUSE THEY'RE PRO-LIFE.  I FIND IT VERY RICH TO SIT THERE

                    AND TAKE ON THIS GROUP AND TALK ABOUT DIS -- DISADVANTAGED CITIZENS

                    WHEN OVER 70 PERCENT OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD ABORTION CLINICS ARE IN

                    POOR MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS.  YOU'RE DARN RIGHT I'M GOING TO GET

                    PASSIONATE.  THIS IS NOTHING BUT GOVERNMENT TERRORISM AGAINST A GROUP

                    THAT'S PRO-LIFE.  YOU CAN SIT THERE AND SPIN IT ANY WAY YOU WANT.  YOU

                    CAN TURN IT ANY WHICH WAY YOU WANT.  BUT THAT'S ALL THIS IS.  THERE'S

                    DOCUMENTATION THAT PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS BEHIND THIS, TRYING TO

                    ELIMINATE THESE ORGANIZATIONS BECAUSE IT INFRINGES UPON THEIR

                    PRO-CHOICE IDEALS.  I JUST FIND IT RICH THAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY, OH, DON'T

                    GET PREGNANT AS A MALE.  THAT'S THE WORST ARGUMENT I'VE EVER HEARD, I'M

                    SORRY.  THAT'S AN ARGUMENT TO GO AFTER A GROUP OF PEOPLE?  AND ALSO

                    GOING AFTER A GROUP AND SAYING THAT THEY WOULD DELIBERATELY WITHHOLD

                    DAMAGING EVIDENCE ON A SONOGRAM?  THAT'S UNCONSCIONABLE TO EVEN

                    MAKE THAT STATEMENT.  THAT'S UNCONSCIONABLE.  THAT'S NOT WHAT THESE

                    PEOPLE DO, AND YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY DO.  THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

                                 THIS IS A HORRIBLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  ONE OF THE

                    WORST I'VE SEEN SINCE THE PRO-FULL-TERM ABORTION.  I ADAMANTLY URGE ALL

                    OF MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE AGAINST THIS.  YOU'RE JUST ENABLING

                    GOVERNMENT TERRORISM TO CHOOSE THE BIG ARM OF THE GOVERNMENT TO GO

                    AFTER A GROUP OF PEOPLE ESPOUSING THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS THAT

                    THEY WANT TO SEE WOMEN MAKE A CHOICE AND GIVE THEM THAT CHOICE, THAT

                    IT'S NOT ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ABORTION.  THAT IT MIGHT BE -- THAT THEY

                    MIGHT WANT TO KEEP A HUMAN LIFE.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'LL BE VOTING NO.

                                         172



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DIPIETRO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M HERE TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WANT TO APPLAUD THE SPONSOR FOR PUTTING FORWARD A

                    -- A STEADY BILL THAT TALKS ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN OUR STATE AND

                    WHAT IMPACT IT IS HAVING ON NEW YORKERS.  THE SAME THING -- YOU

                    KNOW, WHEN WE -- BEFORE WE BANNED CONVERSION THERAPY WE NEEDED TO

                    KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND CLEARLY FOUND OUT IT WAS A PROBLEM IN

                    NEW YORK STATE.  HERE, THIS STUDY IS TRYING TO GET A PORTRAIT OF WHAT'S

                    HAPPENING IN OUR -- IN OUR JURISDICTION.  IT IS CRITICAL THAT WE UNDERSTAND

                    THE IMPACT THAT THESE CENTERS ARE HAVING ON WOMEN, ESPECIALLY WOMEN

                    OF COLOR IN OUR COMMUNITY.  AND THE IDEA THAT WE ARE -- ARE BEING A

                    TERRORIST IS BEYOND THE PALE.  IT IS -- IT IS GRANDSTANDING BY INDIVIDUALS

                    WHO HAVE -- WHO HAVE A PHILOSOPHY AND APPROACH WHICH DECIDES FOR

                    WOMEN HOW THEY SHOULD LIVE AND HOW THEY SHOULD USE THEIR OWN

                    BODIES.  THIS IS ABOUT A WOMAN'S CHOICE.  THIS ABOUT INFORMATION FOR A

                    WOMAN'S CHOICE.  PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO HAVE AN ABORTION DON'T

                    HAVE ONE.

                                 I'M A PROUD COSPONSOR OF THIS BILL.  I'M GLAD THAT WE'RE

                    MOVING FORWARD ON THIS STUDY AND I WANT TO APPLAUD THE SPONSOR AND I

                    ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE WITH ME.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. SIMON.

                                         173



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MS. SIMON:  THANK YOU.  TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I

                    WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THIS BILL.  I BELIEVE THAT WE WILL -- WE

                    LEARN BY STUDYING THINGS.  IF PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THESE CENTERS ARE NOT

                    GIVING INACCURATE INFORMATION TO PREGNANT WOMEN OR MISREPRESENTING

                    THEMSELVES AS BEING MEDICAL FACILITIES THAT THEY CLEARLY ARE NOT, THEY

                    SHOULD HAVE NO DIFFICULTY WITH STUDYING THOSE -- THOSE CENTERS AND

                    ENSURING THAT, IN FACT, THOSE CENTERS ARE DOING WHAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO

                    DO WITHIN THE LAW AND NOT MISREPRESENTING THEMSELVES.  THE PUBLIC IS

                    HARMED BY ANY ENTITY THAT IS MISREPRESENTING WHAT IT DOES, PARTICULARLY

                    IN A HEALTHCARE SITUATION.  WE KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE FROM THE MANY OF

                    THESE CENTERS IN AND AROUND MY DISTRICT WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND HOW

                    THEY MASQUERADE AS CLINICS.  THEY ARE NOT CLINICS, AND WE NEED DATA TO

                    -- TO DEMONSTRATE THAT, AND WE NEED DATA TO HELP US DEVELOP POLICY

                    GOING FORWARD.

                                 SO I'M IN TOTAL SUPPORT OF THIS BILL.  I'M A PROUD

                    COSPONSOR OF THIS BILL, AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SIMON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. GLICK.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU.  TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                    THERE -- IT IS CRITICAL WHETHER A WOMAN WANTS TO CONTINUE WITH A

                    PREGNANCY OR NOT THAT SHE ACTUALLY BE TALKING TO MEDICAL PERSONNEL AND

                    NOT PEOPLE WHO ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE SIMPLY EXERCISING THEIR

                    FREEDOM OF SPEECH.  HEALTHCARE AND HEALTHCARE FACILITIES OPERATE UNDER

                                         174



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    STRICT RULES.  THESE DO NOT.  AND YES, THERE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINTS.  BUT

                    WE WANT TO BE CERTAIN, BECAUSE IF I BROUGHT UP A BILL THAT SAID THEY HAVE

                    TO DISCLOSE THAT THEY ARE NOT HEALTHCARE FACILITIES, PEOPLE WILL SAY, WELL,

                    WHERE WAS THERE EVER ANY INFORMATION THAT THEY DIDN'T?  SO WE'RE

                    GOING TO STUDY TO ENSURE THAT THESE ORGANIZATIONS WHO HAVE A RIGHT TO

                    SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT, BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO MISLEAD

                    WOMEN, AND THEY CERTAINLY DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO TRY TO DELAY WOMEN

                    MAKING DECISIONS BECAUSE IN A PRENATAL SITUATION THEY COULD BE -- IF

                    SOMEBODY IS AMBIVALENT, THEY COULD BE DELAYING SOMEBODY WHO

                    ULTIMATELY CHOOSES TO CARRY FORWARD A PREGNANCY BUT HAS A HEALTH

                    PROBLEM.  SO THIS IS ABOUT ENSURING WOMEN'S HEALTH, AND NOT ABOUT

                    GOVERNMENT TERRORISM AGAINST PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE ABORTION.  THE

                    PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE ABORTION FERVENTLY SOMETIMES ACTUALLY DO ENGAGE

                    IN TERRORISM.  THIS IS NOT TERRORISM.

                                 I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BARRON TO

                    EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BARRON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WHAT

                    REALLY GETS ME EVERY TIME THIS BILL COMES UP, HOW THESE PRO-LIFERS

                    ALWAYS MENTION THE BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES, SO-CALLED

                    MINORITIES.  I DON'T CALL THEM THAT.  THEY ALWAYS BRING US UP BECAUSE

                    THEY CONCERNED ABOUT US BEFORE WE'RE BORN.  AFTER WE'RE BORN WE CAN'T

                    GET YOU TO PASS LEGISLATION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET A REAL WAGE, A

                    LIVING WAGE, MINIMUM WAGE.  AFTER WE'RE BORN WE CAN'T EVEN GET YOU

                    TO YOU PASS LEGISLATION THAT STOPS POLICE FROM KILLING US BEFORE WE GET A

                                         175



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    REAL START IN LIFE.  AFTER WE'RE BORN WE CAN'T EVEN GET YOU TO SAY NO TO

                    THE INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT ARE RIPPING US OFF SO WE CAN HAVE BETTER

                    HEALTHCARE SO WE CAN HAVE A BETTER LIFE.  YOU'RE NOT PRO-LIFE.  YOU

                    CERTAINLY AIN'T PRO-BLACK-LIFE AFTER WE'RE BORN.  BUT BEFORE WE'RE BORN

                    YOU THROW US INTO THE MIX AS THOUGH YOU CARE.  IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE

                    AN HONEST DEBATE ON THIS, THEN KEEP IT WHERE IT BELONGS, YOUR BELIEFS,

                    BECAUSE YOU DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT ANY BLACK PEOPLE TO THE POINT

                    WHERE YOU NEED TO BE BRINGING US UP IN THIS AS THOUGH YOU CARE ABOUT

                    OUR LIVES.  BECAUSE I'VE SEEN THE STUFF THAT YOU'VE VOTED AGAINST UP HERE

                    THAT DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSE TO EVERYTHING WE BRING UP THAT'LL HELP BLACK

                    LIFE, BROWN LIFE, OUR BABIES, YOU VOTE AGAINST.  YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE.

                    AND THIS IS A SIMPLE BILL.  INFORMATION SO THAT NO WOMAN SHOULD BE LIED

                    TO OR GIVEN ANY FALSE INFORMATION BASED UPON A VERY IMPORTANT CHOICE

                    ABOUT HER HEALTH.  THIS IS A WOMAN'S CHOICE AND IT SHOULD BE BASED

                    UPON INFORMATION GIVEN TO HER THAT IS ACCURATE.  AND THIS IS A GOOD BILL

                    TO ASSURE THAT THAT HAPPENS.  NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOU COME DOWN ON

                    THE ISSUE, THE INFORMATION HAS TO BE --

                                 (BUZZER SOUNDING)

                                 I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BARRON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE AND ENCOURAGE

                    COLLEAGUES TO SPEAK TO THE BILL AND NOT TO PEOPLE WHO SPOKE BEFORE

                                         176



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THEM.  WE'RE IN A LEGISLATIVE BODY THAT HAS PEOPLE WHO COME FROM

                    URBAN AREAS, RURAL AREAS, SUBURBAN AREAS, SOMETIMES A COMBINATION OF

                    ALL OF THAT.  DIFFERENT PARTY BELIEFS AND DIFFERENT BELIEFS ON HOW WOMEN

                    AND/OR PEOPLE OF COLOR SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THEIR BODY.  YOU FOLKS ARE

                    ENTITLED TO THOSE OPINIONS.  WE SHOULD, THOUGH, MAKE SURE THAT WE KEEP

                    OUR DEBATE ABOUT NOT WHO SAID WHAT, BUT WHAT OUR OPINION IS.  WHAT

                    WE THINK.  THOSE ARE THE WAY -- THAT'S THE WAY WE GET A DEBATE THAT

                    DOESN'T HAVE PEOPLE WANTING TO GO AT EACH OTHER BECAUSE WE HAVE A

                    DIFFERENCE.  AND SO I'M -- I'M JUST ASKING IF WE COULD KEEP IT AT THAT

                    LEVEL.  AND BY THE WAY, AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN, I DON'T

                    CHOOSE AN ABORTION.  BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S MY RIGHT TO TELL ANY OTHER

                    WOMAN WHAT SHE AND HER DOCTOR SHOULD CHOOSE.  AND SO BECAUSE OF

                    THAT REASON I WILL SUPPORT ANYBODY HAVING ACCESS TO THE KIND OF

                    HEALTHCARE THAT THEY DESERVE.

                                 I'M PLEASED TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION

                    AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05411, CALENDAR NO.

                    331, THIELE, WALKER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE INDIAN LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE STATE RECOGNITION AND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THE MONTAUKETT

                                         177



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    INDIANS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 331.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07759-C, CALENDAR

                    NO. 358, PAULIN, BUCHWALD, OTIS, FAHY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING STIR/SHAKEN AUTHENTICATION

                    FRAMEWORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. PAULIN.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.  THE BILL WOULD REQUIRE

                    PROVIDERS OF VOICE SERVICE TO IMPLEMENT THE STIR/SHAKEN

                    AUTHENTICATION FRAMEWORK IN THEIR NETWORKS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. PAULIN, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                         178



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I'D BE HAPPY TO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. PAULIN YIELDS.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.  AND, YOU KNOW, FOR -- FOR MY

                    COLLEAGUES, I -- I KNOW THAT THIS IS A -- THIS TECHNOLOGY, STIR/

                    SHAKEN, WE ARE NOT DEBATING ABOUT JAMES BOND OR MARTINIS HERE, IT'S

                    ACTUALLY A TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUE THAT RELATES TO PHONES AND -- AND

                    PARTICULARLY TRYING TO GET AT A PROBLEM I THINK WE'RE ALL VERY FAMILIAR

                    WITH, AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THESE ROBO CALLS WE GET ON OUR CELL PHONES,

                    YOU KNOW, THAT ARE KIND OF SPAM, THAT MASK THEIR TRUE ORIGIN SO IT LOOKS

                    LIKE IT'S, YOU KNOW, A CELL PHONE NUMBER FROM YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY

                    AND IT ENDS UP BEING, YOU KNOW, SOME TYPE OF SPAM CALL THAT, YOU

                    KNOW, HAVE BECOME AT THE VERY LEAST ANNOYING BUT REALLY A WASTE OF A

                    LOT OF OUR TIME.  SO I -- I COMMEND YOU FOR WORKING ON THE ISSUE.  WE

                    WERE JUST WONDERING IF YOU COULD WALK ME THROUGH A LITTLE BIT IN TERMS

                    OF WHO IS REQUIRED TO IMPLEMENT THIS TECHNOLOGY UNDER THIS BILL?  AND

                    THEN JUST REALLY THE INTERPLAY BETWEEN THIS REQUIREMENT WE'D BE PUTTING

                    INTO NEW YORK STATE LAW AND WHAT WAS ANNOUNCED BY THE FEDERAL

                    GOVERNMENT THAT NEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED BY -- BY THE END OF NEXT

                    JUNE.  SO, IN TERMS OF THE PROVIDERS, IS IT JUST, YOU KNOW, THE CELL PHONE

                    COMPANIES, LAND LINE COMPANIES?  WHO WOULD BE REQUIRED TO

                    IMPLEMENT THIS TECHNOLOGY?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, AS YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, THE FCC,

                    THROUGH REGULATION, HAS ALREADY REQUIRED THIS TECHNOLOGY BE -- THIS

                    TECHNOLOGY TO BE -- TO BE -- TO BE INCORPORATED INTO THE

                    TELECOMMUNICATION UTILITY COMPANIES, AND THE -- THE DIFFERENCES I THINK

                                         179



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ARE THE ONES THAT, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT HERE.  SO

                    WHAT THE FCC HAS DONE IS THEY BASICALLY SAY THE STARTING

                    COMMUNICATIONS COMPANY AND THE ENDING ONE.  THE STARTING ONE -- YOU

                    KNOW, ASSUMING THAT WE HAVE SOME JURISDICTION OVER IT -- NEEDS TO

                    INCORPORATE STIR/SHAKEN.  WHAT THEY DON'T SAY IS THE INTERMEDIARY

                    ONES HAVE TO.  SO IF A CALL STARTS OVERSEAS AND ENDS IN NEW YORK, ALL OF

                    THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMPANIES IN BETWEEN ARE NOT REQUIRED TO USE

                    STIR/SHAKEN OR HAVE STIR/SHAKEN.  AND THOSE ARE THE ONES,

                    FRANKLY, THAT ARE MOST LIKELY TO BE ROBO CALLS.  SO BY -- BY ADDING OR BY

                    ENFORCING OR PUTTING THIS IN OUR STATUTE, WE'RE NOW REQUIRING ALL OF

                    THOSE INTERMEDIARY COMPANIES TO ALSO USE THE TECHNOLOGY, AND,

                    THEREFORE, WE'RE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO STOP THE ROBO CALLS TO US IN -- TO

                    US NEW YORKERS.

                                 THE OTHER THING THAT THE BILL DOES THAT -- THAT THE

                    FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REALLY CAN'T DO IS TO -- TO HAVE AN ENFORCEMENT

                    ELEMENT.  YOU KNOW, THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT THAT THE ATTORNEY

                    GENERAL IN NEW YORK MADE WITH SEVERAL TELECOMMUNICATION

                    COMPANIES TO -- TO USE STIR/SHAKEN, AND -- BUT WITHOUT THE TEETH OF

                    THIS BILL, THERE'S NO ENFORCEMENT PROVISION FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

                    SO THIS WAY THERE'S AN ENFORCEMENT ON THE VERY AGREEMENT THAT HAS

                    ALREADY BEEN MADE BETWEEN TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMPANIES AND THE

                    ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND WE REQUIRE ALL TELECOMMUNICATION COMPANIES

                    THROUGHOUT THE ROUTE OF THE CALL TO HAVE THE SAME TECHNOLOGY.  THIS BILL

                    IS NOT OBJECTED TO BY ANY OF THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMPANIES THAT

                    HAVE -- THAT -- THAT WE KNOW OF.  WE HAVE NO NEGATIVE MEMOS FROM

                                         180



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THEM.  AND BECAUSE I THINK AT THIS POINT WE RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS THE

                    TECHNOLOGY THAT IS GOING TO SAVE US ALL FROM THOSE REPEATED, ANNOYING

                    REPETITIVE CALLS.

                                 MR. RA:  YES.  AND I -- I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT IS

                    CERTAINLY A GOAL I THINK WE ALL -- WE ALL SHARE.  AND WHETHER IT'S

                    WORKING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, THE STATE LEVEL.  AND I KNOW EVEN WITHIN

                    THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMPANIES, YOU KNOW, MANY OF THEM HAVE

                    PARTNERED AND TRIED TO COME TOGETHER TO FIND WAYS TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE

                    BECAUSE I -- I THINK ANYBODY WHO'S PROVIDING SOMEBODY A SERVICE

                    WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, PROTECT THEM FROM -- FROM SOMETHING THAT'S

                    AN ANNOYANCE AND INTERFERES WITH THEIR, YOU KNOW, USE AND ENJOYMENT

                    OF -- OF THEIR PRODUCT.  SO -- SO I THINK THAT CERTAINLY IS A -- IS A VERY

                    IMPORTANT THING.  SO, YOU KNOW, THIS DOESN'T, THEN, REALLY INTERFERE WITH

                    WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S DOING IN THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S

                    CONCENTRATING ON THE FRONT END OF IT, AND LIKE YOU SAID, I MEAN, THE

                    PROBLEM THERE, OBVIOUSLY, IS IT COULD BECOMING FROM OVERSEAS.  JUST

                    LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE COULD HAVE THE ISSUE IN NEW YORK STATE THAT

                    SOMETHING MAYBE IS ORIGINATING OUTSIDE OF OUR -- OUR BORDERS.  BUT

                    TRYING TO GET AT THE ISSUE, I THINK -- I THINK IS A GOOD THING IN THAT

                    REGARD.  BUT ONE -- ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS, I KNOW -- SO THERE WAS A

                    -- I KNOW PREVIOUSLY THERE WAS A VERSION OF THIS BILL THAT HAD BASICALLY

                    A FUNDING MECHANISM WITHIN THE PSC THAT IS NOT IN THIS VERSION OF IT.

                    IS THERE ANY CONTEMPLATION OF WHETHER THERE IS GOING TO BE COSTS TO THE

                    PSC TO -- TO IMPLEMENT AND ENFORCE THIS?  BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, I THINK

                    THE ENFORCEMENT IS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE A MAJOR PIECE OF THIS.  I THINK

                                         181



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WE'D ALL LOVE TO BE ABLE TO GO TO OUR CONSTITUENTS AND SAY, YES, WE

                    FINALLY ARE GETTING AT THIS PROBLEM.  BUT IF THEY KEEP GETTING THE CALLS

                    THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON?  IS IT NOT BEING ENFORCED OR

                    -- OR ARE YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING ELSE BECAUSE IT'S NOT WORKING.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SO THE -- THE BILL WAS AMENDED.

                    ORIGINALLY WE DID GIVE THE OVERSIGHT TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    COMMISSION, BUT WE WERE ASKED BY BOTH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE,

                    WHO WANTED TO BE ABLE TO ENFORCE HER OWN ORDER, AND THE PSC.  AND

                    WE DECIDED -- WE SPOKE TO BOTH AND WE DECIDED THAT IT WAS BETTER THAT

                    THE ENFORCEMENT WAS THROUGH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.  THEY

                    HAVE NOT BECAUSE OF THE ORDER.  AND THEY DID NOT REQUIRE OR DID NOT ASK

                    FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDING TO DO THAT, SO WE HAVE ALL EXPECTATION THAT

                    THEY'RE GOING TO DO A GREAT JOB AND ENFORCE THE VERY ORDER THAT THEY

                    COOPERATIVELY AGREED TO WITH THE -- WITH THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS

                    COMPANIES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND THEN JUST IN TERMS OF THAT, YOU

                    KNOW, ENFORCEMENT SIDE OF IT, SO I KNOW IT PROVIDES FOR A -- A PENALTY

                    NOT LESS THAN $10,000, NOT MORE THAN $100,000.  BUT THAT'S FOR -- IF A

                    COMPANY BASICALLY KNOWINGLY DOES NOT IMPLEMENT THIS TECHNOLOGY.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  I -- I GUESS THE -- THE LAST THING I

                    WANTED TO JUST ASK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I -- I MENTIONED THE FEDERAL SIDE

                    OF IT.  I THINK THEY'RE -- THEY'RE IMPLEMENTING THEIR NEW REQUIREMENTS

                    THAT THEY ANNOUNCED AT THE END OF MARCH BY JUNE 30TH OF 2021.  WHEN

                    WILL THE, YOU KNOW, THESE INTERMEDIARY COMPANIES BE REQUIRED TO HAVE

                                         182



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THIS TECHNOLOGY IN NEW YORK STATE?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SO LET ME JUST LOOK AT THE ENACTMENT

                    CLAUSE.  SO WELL, IT'S SUBJECT TO REGULATION, RIGHT, SO -- SO WE -- YOU

                    KNOW, SO I WOULD ASSUME AS SOON AS THAT'S ALL SETTLED THAT WOULD BE --

                    THAT'S WHEN IT WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND, I MEAN, THEY WOULD THEN

                    OBVIOUSLY BE GOING THROUGH, YOU KNOW, A RULE-MAKING PROCESS THAT I

                    THINK WE'RE ALL SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR WITH WHICH WOULD GIVE, HOPEFULLY,

                    AMPLE, YOU KNOW, NOTICE TO THE COMPANIES, BUT I THINK ALSO, YOU KNOW,

                    AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO WEIGH IN ON THIS WITH THAT.  I -- HOPEFULLY --

                    AND -- AND, YOU KNOW, I TRUST THAT THERE'S SOME LEVEL OF EXPERTISE WITHIN

                    THE PSC AND -- AND OUR AGENCIES, BUT IT IS OBVIOUSLY A TECHNOLOGICAL,

                    YOU KNOW, ENDEAVOR AND I -- AND I THINK THAT GETTING INFORMATION FROM

                    THE COMPANIES THAT DEAL IN TECHNOLOGY I THINK WILL BE HELPFUL TO THE

                    RULE-MAKING PROCESS.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YEAH.  THE GOAL IS TO REALLY NOT MAKE

                    THIS HARDER.  I MEAN, THE GOAL IS TO WORK WITH THE COMPANIES SO THAT, AS

                    THEY DESCRIBED TO US, THE ENTIRE CHAIN NEEDS TO HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY FOR

                    IT TO BE EFFECTIVE.  SO THAT'S THE -- THAT'S REALLY THE GOAL, SO THAT ALL OF

                    THEM WOULD HAVE IT.  THERE'S A LOT OF VERY SMALL COMPANIES THAT MIGHT

                    ACCEPT SOME, LET'S SAY, YOU KNOW, INAPPROPRIATE CALLER -- STARTING CALLS

                    THAT WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO STOP.  SO, YOU KNOW, BUT THE -- THE IDEA IS

                    THAT ALL COMPANIES IN NEW YORK WHO ARE PROVIDING CALLS TO NEW YORK

                    WOULD HAVE THIS TECHNOLOGY WOULD BE ABLE TO STOP THOSE ANNOYING ROBO

                    CALLS, TO HAVE THE AG BE ABLE TO ENFORCE HER OWN ORDER, AND -- AND --

                                         183



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND TO WORK ALONGSIDE WHAT THE FCC IS ALREADY REQUIRING.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. PAULIN.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  JUST BRIEFLY.  YOU KNOW, I THANK THE

                    SPONSOR FOR ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS.  IT IS A BIT OF A TECHNOLOGICAL

                    ISSUE, BUT LIKE I SAID, IT'S A PROBLEM WE ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH, OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH.  AND I CERTAINLY HAVE GOTTEN MY

                    SHARE OF CONSTITUENT CALLS, ASKING, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE ARE DOING AND

                    WHAT WE CAN DO TO GET AT -- TO GET AT THIS PROBLEM.  I -- I THINK IT'S --

                    UNFORTUNATELY EVERY TIME WE DEAL WITH TECHNOLOGY THERE'S ALWAYS, YOU

                    KNOW, A NEED TO CONTINUE INNOVATING BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO -- YOU DON'T

                    WANT TO DO THE WRONG THING OR THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP COMING UP WITH

                    WAYS TO CIRCUMVENT THINGS WE DO AS WELL.  BUT -- BUT I'M HOPEFUL THIS --

                    YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGY LIKE THIS AND THE ACTIONS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND

                    ACTIONS AT THE STATE LEVEL WILL GET US TO THE POINT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE

                    CANNOT ONLY HOPEFULLY INTERCEPT SOME OF THESE CALLS, BUT, YOU KNOW,

                    HAVE -- WHETHER IT'S THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AND -- AND LEVELS OF

                    LAW ENFORCEMENT, THE FCC, BE ABLE TO ALSO IDENTIFY BAD ACTORS WHO ARE

                    USING THESE BASICALLY SPOOFING MECHANISMS TO TRICK PEOPLE INTO

                    ANSWERING THEIR PHONE CALLS.  AND, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY, LIKE I SAID,

                    YOU KNOW, AT BEST IT'S AN -- AN ANNOYANCE, BUT IT COULD ALSO, YOU KNOW,

                    OPEN PEOPLE TO BEING VICTIMS OF SCAMS AND -- AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

                    SO, YOU KNOW, PROTECTING THE -- THE CONSUMERS IS -- IS PARAMOUNT HERE.

                                 SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO THE SPONSOR.

                                         184



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 358.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  WOULD YOU PLEASE

                    RECORD ASSEMBLYMEMBER FRIEND AS A FRIENDLY NO VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  HA HA HA.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02885, CALENDAR NO.

                    391, ABINANTI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    NOTIFYING LOCAL OFFICIALS OF THE OCCURRENCE OF CERTAIN EMERGENCY

                    SITUATIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL ON THE

                    BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.  THIS

                    BILL IS QUITE STRAIGHTFORWARD.  AND IT PROVIDES THAT IN AN EMERGENCY

                    WHERE THERE'S AN IMMINENT IMPERILMENT TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY,

                    THE COUNTY HEALTH COMMISSIONER MUST BE IMMEDIATELY NOTIFYING

                    SEVERAL POLITICIANS.  AND IN PARTICULAR, THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF

                                         185



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    EVERY MUNICIPALITY THAT MIGHT BE AFFECTED AND EACH MEMBER OF THE

                    LEGISLATIVE BODY AT THE COUNTY AND PERHAPS A NEIGHBORING COUNTY.  AND

                    AS A POLITICIAN, I -- I APPRECIATE BEING NOTIFIED.  HOWEVER, I ALSO

                    RECOGNIZE THAT IF WE'RE IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WHERE THERE'S AN

                    IMMINENT IMPERILMENT TO PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY, THE FIRST AND

                    FOREMOST PRIORITY OF THE COUNTY HEALTH COMMISSIONER OUGHT TO BE

                    FOCUSING ON THAT EMERGENCY.  AND SO I WOULD HOPE THAT THEY WOULD

                    IMMEDIATELY CONTACT THE APPROPRIATE FIRST RESPONDERS, THAT THEY WOULD

                    IMPLEMENT THEIR EMERGENCY DISASTER PREPAREDNESS PLANS, THOSE

                    (UNINTELLIGIBLE) APPROPRIATE FIRE COORDINATORS AND THEIR EMERGENCY

                    PERSONNEL, AND NOT BE UNDER A STATUTORY OBLIGATION TO IMMEDIATELY

                    NOTIFY POLITICIANS.  IN MY COUNTY WE WERE VERY, VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE

                    AN INCREDIBLE GROUP OF EMERGENCY RESPONDERS WITH A WELL-DEVELOPED

                    DISASTER COORDINATION PLAN IN PLACE.  AND WHEN I WAS COUNTY

                    EXECUTIVE WE ACTUALLY HAD A DISASTER.  WE HAD A -- A HORRIFIC TIRE FIRE, IT

                    WAS A TIRE DUMP.  AND THEY IMPLEMENTED THEIR EMERGENCY PLANNING

                    AND EVENTUALLY THEY NOTIFIED ME.  BUT I WAS SO THANKFUL THAT THEY FIRST

                    NOTIFIED EVERYONE ELSE.  AND WHILE I APPRECIATE THE DESIRE OF MY

                    COLLEAGUE TO BE NOTIFIED IN THIS OCCURRENCE, I THINK WE SHOULD NOT

                    BURDEN OUR COUNTY HEALTH OFFICIALS WITH THAT ADDITIONAL NOTIFICATION

                    REQUIREMENT AND LEAVE IT TO THE DISCRETION OF THE COUNTY BOARD OF HEALTH

                    AND THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE IF THEY FEEL ADDITIONAL NOTIFICATION IS

                    APPROPRIATE.

                                 AND ONE LAST COMMENT.  WE HAVE SOME GREAT COUNTIES

                    THAT HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF RESIDENTS AND A HEALTH

                                         186



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    COMMISSIONER WITH A LOT OF STAFF MEMBERS.  BUT WE ALSO HAVE VERY,

                    VERY SMALL COUNTIES WHERE THE HEALTH COMMISSIONER HAS VERY FEW STAFF.

                    AND WE NEED TO REFLECT AND RECOGNIZE THAT THE SITUATION IN DIFFERENT

                    COUNTIES CAN BE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT.  AND IN MY COUNTY, WHICH IS

                    RURAL, WE DON'T HAVE DEEP STAFF WHO CAN BE ASSIGNED TO NOTIFY ALL THE

                    POLITICIANS.  AND SO WE WANT TO HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY ON THE LOCAL LEVEL

                    TO DECIDE HOW BEST TO RESPOND TO AN EMERGENCY RATHER THAN A STATEWIDE

                    LAW, AS THIS IS SUGGESTING.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.  AND I WILL BE VOTING NO

                    AND I KNOW SEVERAL OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE IN THE PAST AND I EXPECT THEY

                    MIGHT AS WELL THIS YEAR.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 391.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CAUCUS WILL GENERALLY BE VOTING NO ON THIS BILL.  IF THERE ARE MEMBERS

                    THAT WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE BILL, PLEASE CONTACT THE MINORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                         187



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  COLLEAGUES WISHING

                    TO DEFER FROM THAT AND VOTE NEGATIVE SHOULD CONTACT THE OFFICE AND WE

                    WILL BE HAPPY TO RECORD THEIR VOTE.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. ABINANTI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS

                    LEGISLATION REQUIRES THE LOCAL HEALTH COMMISSIONER IN A CASE OF AN

                    IMMINENT IMPERILMENT TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY TO NOTIFY, WHERE

                    HE DEEMS IT APPROPRIATE, TO GIVE NOTICE SOME ADDITIONAL PEOPLE TO

                    MAKE SURE THAT LOCAL PUBLIC OFFICIALS KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITHIN THEIR

                    JURISDICTION.  THIS CAME ABOUT IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY WHERE MANY

                    YEARS AGO A MAYOR COMPLAINED TO ME THAT THERE WAS SEWAGE RUNNING

                    DOWN THE CENTER OF HER STREET, AND A NEIGHBOR CALLED AND SAID, WHY IS

                    THERE SEWAGE COMING OUT OF A MANHOLE RUNNING DOWN THE STREET?  THE

                    HEALTH COMMISSIONER NEGLECTED TO TELL THE MAYOR, WHO CONTROLS THE

                    POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT, AND WOULD NOTIFY THE

                    VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT TO BE OUT ON THE SCENE.  THE PUBLIC HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER OF THE COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER WENT STRAIGHT TO HAVING

                    THE PROBLEM FIXED, BUT NEVER THOUGHT OF TELLING THE LOCAL OFFICIALS,

                    THINKING THEY WERE SUPERFLUOUS.  AND I'VE HEARD OTHER STORIES WHERE

                                         188



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THIS HAS HAPPENED.  WE'RE ANTICIPATING THE TYPE OF SITUATION WHERE

                    THERE COULD BE A TRAIN WRECK, WHERE THE TRAIN HAS HAZARDOUS MATERIALS.

                    AND THE HEALTH COMMISSIONER, RIGHTFULLY, WILL BE NOTIFYING VARIOUS

                    PEOPLE.  WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT INCLUDED IN THAT LIST OF PEOPLE IS

                    THE NEIGHBORING HEALTH COMMISSIONER, IF IT'S GOING TO AFFECT THE

                    NEIGHBORING COUNTY.  THE LOCAL MAYOR, AND MAYBE EVEN THE LOCALLY-

                    ELECTED COUNTY LEGISLATOR OR STATE ASSEMBLYMEMBER IF THEY ARE

                    RELEVANT.  WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT NOTIFYING EVERYBODY IN THE COUNTY.

                    BUT EVEN IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY WHERE WE HAVE FULL-TIME

                    GOVERNMENTS, WE HAVE LOCALLY-ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO ARE HANDS ON.

                    WHO ARE, QUOTE, DEPARTMENT LIAISONS AND THEY FUNCTION AS -- AS

                    DEPARTMENT HEADS.  THEY'RE THE ONES WHO BELONG TO THE VOLUNTEER FIRE

                    DEPARTMENT, TO THE AMBULANCE CORPS, WHO RESPOND TO MAKE SURE THAT

                    THE COMMUNITY IS MOBILIZED.  AND IF THERE IS A NEED FOR AN EVACUATION,

                    THEY'RE THE ONES WHO GIVE THE ORDERS TO EVACUATE.  THEY'RE THE ONES

                    WHO GIVE THE ORDERS TO SHELTER IN PLACE.  SO WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE

                    THAT IN THIS DAY AND AGE WHERE WE HAVE ALL KINDS OF MEANS OF

                    COMMUNICATIONS AVAILABLE TO US THAT THE HEALTH COMMISSIONER INCLUDES

                    IN HIS OR HER RESPONSE PLAN ALL OF THE LOCALLY-ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO NEED

                    TO BE NOTIFIED.

                                 WE'VE PASSED THIS LEGISLATION BEFORE.  I THINK IT'S VERY

                    GOOD LEGISLATION, I ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO SUPPORT IT.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.  MR.

                    ABINANTI IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                         189



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MS.

                    MILLER AS AN AFFIRMATIVE VOTE ON THIS BILL.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU VERY

                    MUCH.  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03327, CALENDAR NO.

                    401, DILAN, JEAN-PIERRE, M.G. MILLER, FERNANDEZ, SMULLEN, DESTEFANO,

                    BUTTENSCHON, COOK, ORTIZ, HYNDMAN, DICKENS, COLTON, GOTTFRIED,

                    MORINELLO, BLAKE, SEAWRIGHT, LAWRENCE, PICHARDO, NIOU.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE EXPIRATION OF MINUTES

                    PURCHASED WITH PREPAID CELLULAR TELEPHONE CARDS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    DILAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MR. DILAN.

                                 MR. DILAN:  YES.  THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THAT

                    PREPAID CELLULAR TELEPHONE CARDS -- OR EXCUSE ME, NOT CELLULAR, PREPAID

                    CELLULAR TELEPHONE CARDS HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE OF THE MINUTES

                    PURCHASED ON THE PRINTED CARD IN CONSPICUOUS PRINT, WHICH IS DEFINED

                    AS THE FONT AT LEAST TWO TIMES LARGER THAN ANY OTHER PRINT ON THE -- PRINT

                    -- PRINTED ON SUCH CARD AND IN BOLDFACE PRINT THAT IS AT LEAST 10-POINT

                    SIZE.

                                         190



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GARBARINO.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DILAN, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. DILAN:  ALWAYS FOR A GOOD FRIEND.  AND BEFORE

                    WE GET INTO THAT, I -- I WILL SAY THAT I WILL PERSONALLY MISS YOU AND WISH

                    YOU WELL IN YOUR FUTURE, WHATEVER THAT MAY HOLD FOR YOU.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DILAN YIELDS, MR.

                    GARBARINO.  GRACIOUSLY, I MUST SAY.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  THAT'S VERY NICE.  MY DAD

                    DOESN'T EVEN TALK TO ME THAT NICE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. DILAN.  I

                    DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.  THIS IS BEING ADDED TO -- OR THIS SECTION

                    IS BEING ADDED TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW THAT DEALS WITH PREPAID

                    TELEPHONE CARDS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. DILAN:  YES.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  NOW, I UNDERSTAND PUBLIC

                    SERVICE LAW HAS CONTROL AND OVERSIGHT OF -- JURISDICTION OVER LAND LINES

                    IN -- IN NEW YORK.  DON'T -- THIS SECTION THAT YOU'RE ADDING DEALS WITH

                    WIRELESS.  AREN'T WE PREEMPTED BY FEDERAL LAW HERE?

                                 MR. DILAN:  WELL, NO.  IT'S PHONE CARDS, NOT

                    WIRELESS.  AND IT'S ESTABLISHED IN -- IN 92(F) THAT WE -- YOU KNOW, WE

                    HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS BUT THIS DOES NOT TOUCH WIRELESS.  IT'S A -- IT'S A

                    PREPAID CELLULAR PHONE CARD.  BUT THESE ARE THE CARDS.  IT'S NOT LIKE A

                                         191



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WIRELESS PHONE, PER SE, IT'S FOR PHONE CARDS.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  THEN MY

                    QUESTION IS, SOME OF THESE CARDS, OR AT LEAST THESE MINUTES, DON'T

                    ACTIVATE -- YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE AN EXPIRATION ON THEM BUT THEY DON'T

                    ACTIVATE UNTIL THE CARD IS ACTIVATED.  SO, HOW CAN THE COMPANY PRINT AN

                    EXPIRATION DATE ON THE CARD IF -- IF IT DOESN'T -- IF THERE'S NO DEFINITIVE

                    DATE?  LIKE EARLIER UNDER -- UNDER SECTION E OF THE SAME -- OF THE SAME

                    CHAPTER -- FOR REGULAR CARDS, NOT CELLULAR CARDS -- IT SAYS ANY EXPIRATION

                    DATE OR EXPIRATION POLICY.  YOUR SECTION ONLY SAYS EXPIRATION DATE.

                                 MR. DILAN:  YEAH.  WELL, WE'RE NOT CHANGING THAT

                    SECTION OF THE LAW.  THE ONLY THING THAT WE'RE SEEKING TO DO IS ASK THEM

                    TO DO IT IN CONSPICUOUS PRINT WHERE IT'S CLEAR TO THE CONSUMER OF WHEN

                    SUCH EXPIRATION DATE IS.  RIGHT NOW IT'S DONE IN VERY LEGALESE FINE PRINT,

                    AND THE AVERAGE CONSUMER DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE IT'S WRITTEN

                    SO SMALL WHEN THEY PURCHASE THE CARD.  SO WE -- WE AT LEAST WANT THAT

                    PRINT, WHICH THEY'RE ALREADY REQUIRED TO DO UNDER THIS SECTION, TO BE IN

                    BOLDFACE AND SLIGHTLY LARGER THAN ANY OTHER LEGAL PRINT.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  SO MY -- ALL RIGHT, SO IS IT -- ARE

                    YOU SAYING IT'S -- IT'S YOUR INTENT HERE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CARD COULD

                    SAY -- THEY DON'T HAVE TO SAY THE EXPIRATION DATE IS DECEMBER 31ST, THEY

                    COULD SAY EXPIRATION DATE IS ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ACTIVATION?

                                 MR. DILAN:  WELL, HOW THEY DEAL -- THAT -- THAT'S

                    DEALT WITH -- SO THIS SPECIFIC BILL DOESN'T DEAL WITH THAT.  THAT'S DEALT

                    WITH IN THE SECTION THAT WAS PASSED IN --  IN 1999.  SO WE DON'T TOUCH

                    THAT.  THE ONLY THING WE -- WE REALLY TOUCH HERE IS WE WANT THE

                                         192



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    COMPANIES TO MAKE IT EVIDENTLY CLEAR TO THE CONSUMER WHO IS GOING TO

                    BE PURCHASING THE CARD THAT THE EXPIRATION DATE, WHICH THEY'RE ALREADY

                    REQUIRED TO HAVE IN THAT SECTION, IS LARGER, AT LEAST 10-POINT SIZE AND IN

                    BOLD.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  SO, AN EXPIRATION DATE, IF THERE'S

                    AN ACTUAL EXPIRATION DATE, OR IF THERE IS -- IT'S NOT A SPECIFIC DATE BUT A,

                    YOU KNOW, A TIME PERIOD SAYING A YEAR FROM ACTIVATION, EITHER ONE OF

                    THOSE WOULD WORK AS LONG AS IT FOLLOWS THE SIZE OF PRINT?

                                 MR. DILAN:  I -- I BELIEVE SO, AND THAT'S DEALT WITH IN

                    THE OTHER PARTS OF THE EXISTING STATUTE.  BUT THIS -- THIS -- THIS

                    AMENDMENT THAT I'M LOOKING TO DO DOESN'T DEAL WITH THAT.  IT JUST DEALS

                    WITH THE SIZE AND -- AND BOLDNESS OF FONT.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  I APPRECIATE YOUR

                    ANSWERS, MR. DILAN.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 MR. DILAN:  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 401.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  PLEASE

                                         193



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    RECORD MR. DIPIETRO AS A NO ON THIS VOTE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THIS IS REALLY PROGRESS.

                    IN FACT, WE HAVE SOME -- A COUPLE OF BILLS WE ARE GOING TO TAKE ON

                    CONSENT OFF THE DEBATE LIST.  THESE ARE CALENDAR NO. 473 BY MR.

                    O'DONNELL, 475 BY MR. O'DONNELL, AND 479 BY MS. ROZIC.  AND THEN

                    WE'RE GOING TO GO TO RULES REPORT NO. 73 BY MR. FALL -- 173, I'M SORRY,

                    MR. SPEAKER.  RULES REPORT NO. 173, MR. FALL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05240-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 473, O'DONNELL, DICKENS, MOSLEY, JAFFEE, ORTIZ, BLAKE, THIELE,

                    SIMON, GALEF, ARROYO, GLICK, WALLACE, HEVESI, ABINANTI, D'URSO,

                    QUART, CUSICK, HYNDMAN, DE LA ROSA, PICHARDO, LIFTON, BRONSON,

                    SEAWRIGHT, STECK, RIVERA, NIOU, ROZIC, SIMOTAS, BYRNE, BICHOTTE,

                    SANTABARBARA, WOERNER, FAHY, VANEL, GUNTHER, WALKER, NOLAN,

                    ZEBROWSKI, WRIGHT, CAHILL, STIRPE, SOLAGES, LENTOL, KIM, EPSTEIN,

                    JEAN-PIERRE, WEINSTEIN, PERRY, CARROLL, PHEFFER AMATO, JONES,

                    GOTTFRIED, BUCHWALD, REYES, LAVINE, SMULLEN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    CIVIL RIGHTS LAW AND EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO SINGLE-OCCUPANCY

                    BATHROOM FACILITIES.

                                         194



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 473.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08873-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 475, O'DONNELL, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PARKS, RECREATION AND

                    HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A HISTORIC

                    BUSINESS PRESERVATION REGISTRY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION

                    -- OH.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. O'DONNELL, THE SENATE BILL IS

                    BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 475.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                                         195



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09823-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 479, ROZIC, MCMAHON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO INCLUDING THE PROMOTION AND EXPANSION OF CRICKET

                    IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO THE JURISDICTION OF THE STATE ATHLETIC

                    COMMISSION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 479.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07820-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 173, FALL, RICHARDSON, SAYEGH, WALKER, REYES, DICKENS,

                    DARLING, CUSICK, TAYLOR, BARRON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ADMINISTRATIVE

                    CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING NEW HOMELESS

                    SHELTERS CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE COMMUNITY WHERE THE

                                         196



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PROPOSED SHELTER IS TO BE LOCATED BEFORE BEING SITED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 365 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR -- ON RULES REPORT NO. 173.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL

                    CALL.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED

                    TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

                    COULD PLEASE RECORD MR. HEVESI AS A NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

                    COULD ALSO ADD OUR COLLEAGUE MR. EPSTEIN AS A NO AS WELL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IF WE CAN NOW TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THE LAST PAGE ON OUR

                                         197



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    DEBATE CALENDAR AND START WITH CALENDAR NO. 403 BY MS. SIMOTAS.

                    THEN CALENDAR NO. 422 BY MS. SOLAGES, CALENDAR NO. 423 BY MR.

                    CYMBROWITZ, CALENDAR NO. 442 BY MR. ABINANTI, AND CALENDAR NO.

                    471 BY MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07991-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 403, SIMOTAS, QUART, SAYEGH, MOSLEY, MORINELLO, ASHBY,

                    L. ROSENTHAL, JAFFEE, GOTTFRIED, HEVESI, SIMON, GALEF, CRUZ, NIOU.  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO POSTING INFORMATION

                    ON PATIENTS' REPORTING RIGHTS REGARDING PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT

                    INVOLVING SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND ASSAULT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. SIMOTAS.

                                 MS. SIMOTAS:  YES, OF COURSE.  THIS BILL AMENDS

                    SECTION 230 OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW BY CREATING A NEW SECTION

                    ENTITLED "PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT."  THIS NEW SECTION WOULD REQUIRE

                    TWO THINGS:  FIRST, IT WOULD REQUIRE THAT THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL

                    MISCONDUCT UPDATE ITS WEBSITE AND PROVIDE THE PUBLIC WITH

                    INFORMATION REGARDING A PATIENT'S RIGHTS AND REPORTING OPTIONS

                    REGARDING PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT, INCLUDING INFORMATION ON REPORTING

                    INSTANCES OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND ASSAULT.  SECOND, IT WOULD REQUIRE

                    THAT ALL PHYSICIANS' PRACTICING -- PRACTICE SETTINGS POST SIGNAGE BY

                    (UNINTELLIGIBLE) TO THE OPMCW [SIC] WEBSITE FOR INFORMATION ON THEIR

                    RIGHTS AND HOW TO REPORT PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BYRNE.

                                         198



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. BYRNE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK

                    YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR THAT EXPLANATION.

                                 ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    BYRNE.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

                    THE EXPLANATION.  WE DID GO THROUGH THIS BILL IN COMMITTEE, AND IT -- IT

                    WENT THROUGH WITHOUT A LOT OF OPPOSITION, BUT I DID GET SOME OUTREACH

                    FROM THOSE IN THE PHYSICIANS COMMUNITY, THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY, WITH

                    SOME CONCERNS I JUST WANTED TO EXPRESS.  I ALSO READ -- REREAD THE

                    MEMO AGAIN, AND I THINK THAT IT'S A VERY NOBLE CAUSE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO

                    ADDRESS.  I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THAT.  ANY MEDICAL

                    PROFESSIONAL, ESPECIALLY PHYSICIANS WHO BETRAY THE TRUST OF THEIR

                    PATIENTS AND VIOLATE A PATIENT, IT'S A SPECIAL KIND OF DESPICABLE ACT AND

                    OBVIOUSLY CANNOT BE TOLERATED AT ALL.  AND WE FEEL FOR ANY VICTIMS THAT

                    ARE GOING TO BE SUBJECTED TO THAT TYPE OF BETRAYAL.  BUT THERE'S TWO

                    POINTS THAT THIS BILL CHANGES, AND THE SPONSOR MENTIONED THIS IN HER

                    EXPLANATION.  ONE, THE -- THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT

                    WEBSITE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WEBSITE TO PUT ON THE PATIENTS'

                    RIGHTS AS WELL AS HOW TO FILE A COMPLAINT.  I DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO

                    THAT.  I -- I ACTUALLY PUNCHED IT IN TO THE -- JUST TO GOOGLE, SINCE WE'RE

                    ON VIRTUAL ON ZOOM, AND THE FIRST THING THAT CAME UP IS -- IF YOU JUST PUT

                    IN HOW TO FILE A COMPLAINT AGAINST A PHYSICIAN OR HOW TO FILE A

                    COMPLAINT AGAINST A DOCTOR IN NEW YORK, THE TOP THING ON GOOGLE THAT

                    CAME RIGHT UP WAS THE HEALTH.NY.GOV WEBSITE.  AND ON THERE WAS A

                                         199



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    HYPERLINK WITH THE FORM FOR THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT ON

                    HOW TO ACTUALLY FILE A COMPLAINT.  I DO THINK THAT EXISTS, BUT IF THERE'S

                    WAYS THAT WE CAN MAKE THAT BETTER, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.  I -- I

                    DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO BE -- HAVE ADDITIONAL OBSTACLES IF THERE -- IF

                    THEY'VE BEEN SUBJECTED TO SOME SORT OF VIOLATION LIKE THE SPONSOR TALKS

                    ABOUT IN THE MEMO.  THE BIGGER CONCERN THAT I'VE -- I'VE HEARD FROM

                    PHYSICIANS IS THE ADDITIONAL MANDATE ABOUT POSTING IN THE -- THE

                    PHYSICIAN PRACTICES AND THE SETTINGS.  SO IF YOU'RE GOING -- GOING TO A

                    DOCTOR'S OFFICE, NOW THERE'S A NEW REQUIREMENT TO PUT AN ADDITIONAL

                    POSTING IN THEIR PRIVATE PHYSICIAN SETTING, THERE'S CONCERNS FROM

                    PHYSICIANS THAT THIS COULD JUST CREATE A MORE COMPLICATED RELATIONSHIP

                    WITH AND -- AND POTENTIALLY UNDERMINE THE TRUST THAT EXISTS WITH THE --

                    THE PHYSICIAN AND -- AND PATIENT RELATIONSHIP WHEN YOU WALK IN IF

                    YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A POSTER SAYING HOW -- HOW DO YOU FILE A COMPLAINT

                    AGAINST THE DOCTOR YOU'RE ABOUT TO GO SEE.  SOMETIMES WE HAVE SO

                    MANY OF THOSE POSTS THAT ARE PUT UP IN JUST -- IN BUSINESSES ALL OVER.  I

                    ALSO HAVE CONCERN THAT IT WILL -- WILL IT ACTUALLY DO WHAT WE THINK IT'S

                    GOING TO DO, OR WILL IT JUST BE DISMISSED AS ONE OTHER PIECE OF PAPER ON

                    -- ON THE WALL WHEN WE GO INTO THE -- THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE.

                                 THOSE ARE SOME OF THE CONCERNS I WANTED TO SHARE

                    WITH YOU.  I DO KNOW WE DO HAVE A REPUTATION IN THIS STATE AS NOT BEING

                    ALWAYS BEING THE MOST FRIENDLY PLACE FOR DOCTORS.  WE'RE -- I THINK

                    WE'RE RATED AS ONE OF THE -- 50 OR 51 BY WALLETHUB AS A PLACE TO

                    PRACTICE AS A PHYSICIAN IN NEW YORK STATE.  I WILL SAY IF YOU'RE A

                    PHYSICIAN OR A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL THAT'S GOING TO ABUSE YOUR PATIENTS,

                                         200



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    I DON'T WANT YOU IN NEW YORK.  BUT FOR ALL THE OTHER GOOD DOCTORS OUT

                    THERE, THIS IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER MANDATE AND ANOTHER BURDEN THAT

                    THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COMPLY WITH.

                                 AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE -- THE

                    EFFORTS SHE'S TRYING TO ADDRESS HERE.  I THINK WE CAN MAYBE MAKE THIS

                    BETTER, THAT ONE PIECE THAT I HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOME CONCERNS ABOUT.

                    AND PHYSICIANS HAVE REACHED OUT TO ME FROM THE MEDICAL SOCIETY AS

                    WELL AS THE WESTCHESTER COUNTY MEDICAL SOCIETY WAS THAT MANDATE THAT

                    WILL BE PLACED ON THEIR -- THEIR -- THEIR PRACTICES OUTSIDE OF THE HOSPITAL

                    SETTING.  SO AGAIN, MR. SPEAKER AND SPONSOR, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

                    I -- I APPRECIATE IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    BYRNE.

                                 MS. SIMOTAS.

                                 MS. SIMOTAS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AND I

                    THANK MY COLLEAGUE FOR HIS COMMENTS.  YOU KNOW, I'VE SPENT A LOT OF

                    TIME IN HOSPITALS AND WITH DOCTORS FOR MY OWN CARE AND ALSO FOR MY

                    FAMILY'S CARE.  AND WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT YOU DO DEVELOP A

                    RELATIONSHIP OF TRUST WITH YOUR PROVIDERS.  AND IT'S MY OPINION, MY

                    HUMBLE OPINION, THAT IF THE DOCTOR DISPLAYS WHERE A PATIENT FEELS THAT

                    HE'S BEEN VIOLATED OR COMPLAINED, THAT WILL DO NOTHING BUT ENHANCE

                    THAT TRUST.  THIS BILL WAS REALLY INSPIRED BY TESTIMONY THAT WAS GIVEN BY

                    MARISSA HOECHSTETTER, WHO IS A SURVIVOR WHO WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED

                    BY HER DOCTOR DURING HER PREGNANCY, HER DELIVERY AND HER POSTPARTUM

                    CARE.  SHE RECENTLY TESTIFIED TO THE LEGISLATURE, TO US, JUST LAST YEAR ON

                                         201



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS FOR PATIENTS WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED THESE VIOLATIONS

                    TO NAVIGATE THE REPORTING SYSTEM IN NEW YORK STATE.  THE WEBSITE FOR

                    THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL CONDUCT OFFERS REALLY NO GUIDANCE

                    ON THESE ISSUES, AND NEVER EXPLICITLY MENTIONS THEIR ROLE IN RECEIVING

                    COMPLAINTS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND ASSAULT BY MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS.

                    IF YOU GO ON TO THEIR WEBSITE TODAY, I DARE YOU TO TRY TO FIND THE PHONE

                    NUMBER.  IT TAKES A LOT TO NAVIGATE.  MARISSA IS AN ACCOMPLISHED

                    WOMAN WITH A MASTER'S DEGREE, AND IT TOOK HER A LONG TIME TO FIGURE IT

                    OUT.  AND SHE IS A VERY VOCAL ADVOCATE AND HELPS OTHERS WHO'VE

                    EXPERIENCED THE SAME TRAUMA.

                                 YOU KNOW, PATIENTS PLACE A GREAT DEAL OF TRUST IN THEIR

                    DOCTORS, AND WHEN DOCTORS ABUSE THAT TRUST AND SUBJECT THEIR PATIENTS TO

                    SEXUAL VIOLENCE, YOU KNOW, IT MUST BE INCREDIBLY SHOCKING AND AN

                    EXPERIENCE THAT YOU DON'T REALLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT.  SO THE FACT THAT

                    YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH JUMPING HOOPS TO NAVIGATE THE SYSTEM TO FILE A

                    COMPLAINT IS REALLY, TO ME, UNCONSCIONABLE.  WE SHOULD ALL WANT TO

                    MAKE THE SYSTEM BETTER, TO MAKE IT MORE TRANSPARENT.

                                 I JUST WANT TO READ SOMETHING THAT SHE TESTIFIED TO

                    DURING THE MAY 24TH HEARING ON SEXUAL HARASSMENT.  SHE SAID, AND I

                    QUOTE, MOST DOCTORS ARE WELL-INTENTIONED, CARING PEOPLE DEDICATED TO

                    THEIR FIELD.  BUT THE MINUTE YOU WALK IN TO YOUR DOCTOR'S OFFICE, THEY

                    HAVE POWER OVER YOU.  THERE ARE OFTEN LEGITIMATE REASONS FOR A

                    DOCTOR'S HANDS TO BE ON OR IN YOUR BODY.  IT IS A UNIQUE PROFESSION, AND

                    THOSE WHO ABUSE THIS -- WHO ABUSE IT DO NOT DESERVE OUR PROTECTION.

                                 I URGE ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE FOR THIS BILL

                                         202



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    BECAUSE WHAT WE WILL BE DOING IS INTRODUCING TRANSPARENCY.  THANK

                    YOU SO MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ

                    [SIC] THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 403.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BYRNE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I AGAIN

                    WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HER TIME IN EXPLAINING THE BILL, SPEAKING

                    ON THE BILL AND JUST SHARING GREATER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THIS IS ALL

                    ABOUT.  I AM GOING TO VOTE FOR THIS BILL.  I HOPE IT HAS THE EFFECT THAT IS

                    INTENDED BY THE SPONSOR.  I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WHEN WE REVIEW

                    LEGISLATION THAT WE -- WE DO LOOK AT EVERYTHING, AND I THINK THERE'S

                    SOME LITTLE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS.  BUT OVERALL, LOOKING AT THIS BILL I STILL

                    THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA.  I MEANT WHAT I SAID WHEN OBVIOUSLY, WE WANT TO

                    BE WELCOMING TO PHYSICIANS IN THIS STATE SO THEY KNOW THAT THIS IS A

                    GREAT PLACE TO PRACTICE AND TO WORK.  BUT CERTAINLY THOSE THAT WILL

                    BETRAY THE TRUST OF THEIR PATIENTS, I DON'T WANT THEM TO PRACTICE

                    ANYWHERE, BUT I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT THEM TO PRACTICE IN NEW YORK.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND I VOTE YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BYRNE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                         203



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES -- MR. GOODELL FIRST.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING REPUBLICANS IN THE NEGATIVE:  MR. FRIEND, MR. SALKA AND MR.

                    DIPIETRO.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IF YOU COULD RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MR. SAYEGH IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK YOU

                    BOTH.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03033, CALENDAR NO.

                    422, SOLAGES, ORTIZ, COLTON, M.G. MILLER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO REGULATIONS PROMULGATED FOR SYSTEMATIC AND

                    SUSTAINED EFFORTS TO FIND WORK FOR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SOLAGES, AN

                    EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  WHEN A WORKER LOSES THEIR JOB

                    THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, THEY MAY ALSO LOSE THEIR ABILITY TO

                    FINANCE SAFE AND AFFORDABLE CHILDCARE FOR THEIR FAMILIES.  THIS BILL SEEKS

                    TO ADDRESS THE GROWING CONCERN THAT CHILDCARE MUST BE TAKEN INTO

                    CONSIDERATION WHEN INDIVIDUALS ON UNEMPLOYMENT ARE COMPLETING THEIR

                                         204



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WORK SEARCH REQUIREMENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE

                    UNFAMILIAR WITH THE EMPLOYMENT SYSTEM - AND I HOPE THAT'S MOST OF US -

                    IF YOU ARE LAID OFF THROUGH NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN OR YOU LOSE YOUR JOB

                    THROUGH NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN, YOU'RE ENTITLED TO COLLECT UNEMPLOYMENT.

                    BUT DURING THAT TIME FRAME THAT YOU'RE COLLECTING UNEMPLOYMENT, YOU

                    ALSO HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO LOOK FOR A NEW JOB.  AND THAT OBLIGATION IS

                    THERE FOR TWO PRIMARY REASONS:  FIRST, WE WANT PEOPLE WHO ARE

                    UNEMPLOYED TO DO ALL THEY CAN TO BECOME EMPLOYED AGAIN SO THEY CAN

                    MAXIMIZE THEIR FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE AND THEIR SUCCESS.  AND OF

                    COURSE YOU NEVER CAN BECOME SUCCESSFUL IF YOU'RE ON UNEMPLOYMENT.

                    AND THE SECOND REASON, OF COURSE, IS WE WANT TO MINIMIZE THE COST OF

                    THE UNEMPLOYMENT PROGRAM ON EMPLOYERS BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT

                    THE MORE THAT EMPLOYERS HAVE TO PAY INTO THE UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM

                    THE LESS MONEY THEY HAVE TO PAY EMPLOYEES.  SO WITH THOSE DUAL

                    PURPOSES IN MIND, WE EXPECT PEOPLE WHO ARE ON UNEMPLOYMENT TO

                    LOOK FOR A JOB.  THIS BILL SAYS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK FOR A JOB IF

                    YOU HAVE CHILDCARE ISSUES.  BUT PRESUMABLY, WHEN YOU WERE WORKING

                    AND BEFORE YOU GOT LAID OFF YOU HAD SIMILAR CHILDCARE ISSUES AND YOU

                    ADDRESSED THEM.  AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT, NUMBER ONE, IF YOU DON'T

                                         205



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    HAVE TO LOOK FOR A JOB BECAUSE YOU'RE TAKING CARE OF CHILDCARE ISSUES,

                    NOT SURPRISINGLY, IT WILL REDUCE JOB SEARCH EFFORTS AND DRIVE UP THE COST

                    OF THE PROGRAM.  BUT SECOND, IT OPENS UP A PANDORA'S BOX OF SUBJECTIVE

                    EVALUATIONS BECAUSE IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE OUTSIDE THE

                    FAMILY TO KNOW WHAT MIGHT BE AVAILABLE TO YOU FOR CHILDCARE.  I MEAN,

                    YOU CAN IMAGINE HAVING TALKED TO YOUR MOM OR YOUR SIBLINGS OR -- OR

                    OTHERS, HAVE YOU CONSIDERED JOB SHARING OR CHILDCARE SHARING?  WHAT

                    CHILDCARE ORGANIZATIONS HAVE YOU CONTACTED?  AND OF COURSE IF YOU'RE

                    LOOKING FOR PAID CHILDCARE, IF YOU'RE UNEMPLOYED YOU PROBABLY -- OR

                    YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT.  SO YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CHICKEN

                    AND EGG SCENARIO THAT'S GOING ON.  AND ONE OF THE GREATEST CONCERNS I

                    HAVE IS THAT WHILE WE NEED TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE NEED FOR CHILDCARE, WE

                    ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT MOST EMPLOYERS ARE, CERTAINLY IN THE -- IN THE

                    PRIVATE SECTOR ARE PROFIT-ORIENTED.  AND SO WE DON'T WANT TO CREATE A

                    SITUATION WHERE WE ENCOURAGE OR WE PROVIDE A FINANCIAL ADVANTAGE OR

                    INCENTIVE TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE KIDS.  AND YOU

                    CAN UNDERSTAND HOW THAT CAN HAPPEN.  NOW TWO WELL-QUALIFIED PEOPLE

                    SHOW UP AND THEY'RE APPLYING FOR THE SAME JOB, ONE'S A LITTLE BIT OLDER,

                    DOESN'T HAVE CHILDCARE ISSUES, THE EMPLOYER KNOWS, WELL, IF I HAVE TO

                    DO A LAYOFF, THAT PERSON IS MORE LIKELY TO FIND A NEW JOB AND WON'T HAVE

                    TO DEAL WITH CHILDCARE ISSUES.  DON'T HAVE TO BE WORRIED ABOUT PAID

                    FAMILY LEAVE BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE KIDS.  THEY'RE UNLIKELY TO GET

                    SICK.  AND ALL OF THAT CREATES A FINANCIAL INCENTIVE THAT UNFORTUNATELY

                    AND IMPROPERLY CREATES AN IMPLICIT BIAS.  SO, THE -- ALL THE BUSINESS

                    ORGANIZATIONS LIKE BUSINESS COUNCIL AND THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF

                                         206



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    INDEPENDENT BUSINESSES ARE CONCERNED THAT WE ARE CREATING A

                    SUBJECTIVE BASIS FOR PEOPLE TO -- TO DECLINE TO LOOK FOR A NEW JOB RATHER

                    THAN ENCOURAGING THOSE WHO WERE IN THE LABOR FORCE BEFORE TO REJOIN AS

                    QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

                                 AND FOR THAT REASON, I AND MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL

                    NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS BILL.  BUT I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE CONCERN AND

                    THOUGHTFULNESS THAT WE ALL NEED TO EXHIBIT.  AND WE ALL OUGHT TO BE

                    WORKING ON INCREASING CHILDCARE AVAILABILITY, WHICH IS ONE REASON WHY

                    I AND MANY, MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE URGED THE GOVERNOR TO

                    RELEASE THE BALANCE OF THE FEDERAL CARE FUNDS THAT HAVE NOT YET BEEN

                    RELEASED.  IT'S OVER $100 MILLION THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN RELEASED FOR

                    CHILDCARE.  SO, LET'S ADDRESS THE CHILDCARE ISSUE.  LET'S GET THAT FEDERAL

                    CARE FUNDS OUT THERE.  LET'S HELP PEOPLE GET CHILDCARE, AND HOPE BY

                    ADDRESSING THE CHILDCARE ISSUE IN A THOUGHTFUL AND COMPASSIONATE WAY,

                    WE CAN REDUCE THIS PROBLEM ALL TOGETHER.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPRESS THOSE

                    CONCERNS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MS. SOLAGES.

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  NOT ONLY ARE WE WITHIN A -- A PUBLIC

                    HEALTH CRISIS, AN ECONOMIC CRISIS, BUT WE ARE IN A CHILDCARE CRISIS.

                    ALONE, 30 PERCENT OF CHILDCARE CENTERS IN NEW YORK STATE HAVE CLOSED.

                    WITH COVID-19, PARENTS -- MANY PARENTS WHO RELIED ON GRANDPARENTS,

                    AUNTS AND UNCLES ARE UNABLE TO USE THOSE INDIVIDUALS.  WE HAVE 20

                    PERCENT OF NEW YORKERS, 1.5 MILLION INDIVIDUALS, OUR NEIGHBORS, OUR

                                         207



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    FRIENDS, OUR COUSINS, OUR FAMILY MEMBERS, WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED.

                    MANY OF THEM HAVE CHILDREN.  AND I KNOW MANY PARENTS OUT THERE,

                    THEY KNOW HOW IT IS WHEN THEY'RE WORKING FROM HOME AND ALSO TAKING

                    CARE OF THEIR CHILD, WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, WRITE A DOCUMENT

                    AND THEIR INFANT TODDLER IS CRYING NEXT TO THEM.  OR THEIR -- THEIR YOUNG

                    CHILD IS BEGGING FOR ATTENTION.  OR A -- A MOTHER OR A FATHER CALLING

                    CHILDCARE CENTERS ALL OVER THEIR TOWN TRYING TO SEE WHICH ONE IS OPEN,

                    WHICH ONE ACTUALLY HAS ENOUGH SLOTS SO THAT THEY CAN GET IN.  AND EVEN

                    CHILDCARE CENTERS THAT ARE SAFE FOR THEIR CHILDREN, BECAUSE AT THE END OF

                    THE DAY WE ALL WANT SAFE, AFFORDABLE CHILDCARE.

                                 SO I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THE -- THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT OF

                    THIS BILL.  WE'RE NOT NEGATING WORK SEARCH REQUIREMENTS.  NOT AT ALL.

                    WE JUST WANT TO HAVE CONSIDERATION WITH THE WORLD AROUND US.  JUST LAST

                    YEAR WHEN WE WERE DEBATING THIS BILL, UNEMPLOYMENT WAS 3 PERCENT.

                    NOW WE ARE AT 20 PERCENT.  AND SO UNDER THIS BILL, IT JUST ALLOWS THE

                    COMMISSIONER OF LABOR TO PROMULGATE REGULATIONS REGARDING WORK

                    SEARCH EFFORTS AND ALLOW THEM TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE NEED FOR THE

                    COMPLAINT -- THE CLAIMANT TO PROVIDE CHILDCARE FOR CHILDREN IN ORDER TO

                    ENSURE THAT THE -- THE CLAIMANTS ARE ABLE TO SATISFY WITH STANDARDS OF

                    PROOF FOR WORK SEARCH EFFORTS.

                                 SO ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE NOT NEGATING IT.  WE'RE NOT

                    SAYING, OH, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEARCH FOR WORK.  WE'RE JUST TRYING TO BE

                    NEW YORK TOUGH AND SAY THAT WE KNOW THAT THE WORLD AROUND US IS --

                    IS A BIT DIFFERENT AND THAT WE NEED TO BE CONSIDERATE AND THAT WE NEED

                    TO BE OPEN.  AND WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT THE NEXT GENERATION BEHIND US

                                         208



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    IS TAKEN CARE OF AND PROVIDED WITH ACCESS TO CHILDCARE AND LOVE AND

                    RESPECT.  WE CAN BALANCE BOTH IN NEW YORK STATE.  AND THE ONLY WAY

                    FOR US AS -- AS A STATE TO GET OUT OF THIS HOLE IS TO ENSURE THAT EVERY NEW

                    YORKER IS CAPABLE OF FINDING A JOB AND CAPABLE OF HAVING ACCESS TO SAFE

                    AND AFFORDABLE CHILDCARE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT DECEMBER 7,

                    2020.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 422.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION, BUT

                    THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE SHOULD CONTACT THE

                    MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 MRS. CRYSTAL PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  OUR CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION AS A COMPLETE CONFERENCE.  HOWEVER, SHOULD THERE

                    BE COLLEAGUES WHO WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE, WE'RE HAPPY TO

                    RETRIEVE THEIR VOICE -- HEAR THEIR VOICE BY A PHONE CALL.  WE LOOK

                                         209



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    FORWARD TO HEARING IT IF THEY NEED TO, AND WE WILL RECORD THEM IN THE

                    NEGATIVE, SHOULD THEY DESIRE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 AND MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  I ABSOLUTELY AGREE

                    WITH MY COLLEAGUE OVER THE NEED FOR AN INCREASED FOCUS ON CHILDCARE,

                    ESPECIALLY DURING THE COVID CRISIS.  AND AS SHE CORRECTLY NOTES, MANY

                    OF OUR CHILDCARE CENTERS HAVE CLOSED.  SOME WERE ABLE TO TAKE

                    ADVANTAGE OF THE PAYROLL PROTECTION PLAN AND STAY OPEN, BUT MANY OF

                    THEM WERE CLOSED BECAUSE PARENTS SIMPLY WOULDN'T SEND THEIR CHILDREN

                    TO CHILDCARE BECAUSE THEY WERE CONCERNED OVER THE IMPACTS OF THE

                    VIRUS.  AND OF COURSE A DAYCARE CENTER CANNOT SURVIVE WITHOUT KIDS.  SO

                    I ABSOLUTELY SHARE HER CONCERN.  THE CARES ACT, THE FEDERAL STIMULUS

                    ACT, INCLUDED $160 MILLION FOR NEW YORK STATE SPECIFICALLY FOR

                    CHILDCARE.  BUT THE LAST I KNEW, ONLY ABOUT $30 MILLION OF THAT'S BEEN

                    DISTRIBUTED, WHICH HAS BEEN A GREAT, GREAT FRUSTRATION TO THE CHILDCARE

                    INDUSTRY AND ALL OF -- ALL OF US WHO SUPPORT HIGH-QUALITY CHILDCARE.  IF

                    THIS BILL WERE LIMITED TO THE COVID CRISIS, THEN I WOULD BE INCLINED TO

                    SUPPORT IT.  BUT THIS IS A PERMANENT CHANGE IN THE LAW, AND

                    UNFORTUNATELY, WILL HAVE LONG-TERM -- IN MY OPINION, LONG-TERM

                    UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AND THAT'S WHY I'M VOTING AGAINST IT.  BUT

                    AGAIN, I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S CONCERN, WHICH I THINK IS RIGHTLY

                    PLACED, AND OUR NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO INCREASE THE

                                         210



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AVAILABILITY OF HIGH-QUALITY CHILDCARE, ESPECIALLY DURING THESE DIFFICULT

                    TIMES.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR, AND AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING REPUBLICAN MEMBERS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION:

                    MR. MORINELLO, MR. REILLY, MS. MILLER, MR. SCHMITT, MR. ASHBY AND

                    MR. SALKA.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04129-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 423, CYMBROWITZ, RODRIGUEZ.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PRIVATE

                    HOUSING FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE MEMBERSHIP OF THE NEW YORK

                    STATE HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY, THE HOUSING TRUST FUND CORPORATION

                    AND THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING CORPORATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. CYMBROWITZ.

                                 MR. CYMBROWITZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    THIS BILL WOULD EXPAND MEMBERSHIP OF THE STATE HOUSING FINANCE

                                         211



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AGENCY BY ADDING ONE MEMBER TO BE APPOINTED BY THE TEMPORARY

                    PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE AND ONE MEMBER TO BE APPOINTED BY THE

                    SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. FITZPATRICK.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  STEVE, NICE TO SEE YOU.  A QUICK QUESTION

                    HERE.  THE ADDITIONAL MEMBERS, WOULD THAT BE JUST ON THE HOUSING

                    FINANCE AGENCY OR WOULD THIS ALSO -- WOULD NEW MEMBERS BE ADDED TO

                    THE OTHER BOARDS, SUB-BOARDS UNDER THE HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY?

                                 MR. CYMBROWITZ:  WELL, THEY WOULD BE PART OF

                    THE SUBSIDIARIES, WHICH -- WHICH ARE THE HOUSING TRUST FUND

                    CORPORATION, THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING CORPORATION.  THEY WOULD ALL

                    HAVE -- THEY'D ALL HAVE THE SEVEN MEMBERS NOW, AND THERE WOULD BE AN

                    ADDITIONAL TWO.  SO THEY WOULD ALL HAVE NINE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  ALL RIGHT.  SO THESE -- SO THESE

                    TWO PROSPECTIVE NEW MEMBERS WOULD ALSO SIT ON THOSE OTHER TWO

                    BOARDS AS WELL?

                                 MR. CYMBROWITZ:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  OKAY.  HOW -- THIS -- THIS BILL'S

                    BEEN AROUND SINCE 2016.  IT'S ALWAYS DIED -- DIED ON THE CALENDAR.

                    HOW -- BY EXPANDING THE MEMBERSHIP, THE GOVERNOR HAS FOUR SEATS;

                    YOU HAVE THE BUDGET DIRECTOR, THE HOUSING AND COMMUNITY RENEWAL

                    DIRECTOR, AND ITS CHAIR, MR. ADAMS.  BY EXPANDING, HOW ARE WE -- HOW

                    ARE WE GOING TO INCREASE EFFICIENCY?  WHAT IS THE NEED FOR THIS, IN YOUR

                    VIEW?

                                         212



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. CYMBROWITZ:  WELL, AS OF RIGHT NOW, THERE IS

                    AN EXPENSE BUDGET OF ALL THOSE AGENCIES, THE AGENCIES AND SUBSIDIARIES,

                    OF $807 MILLION, AND THEY BOND OUT TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS $2.1

                    BILLION.  AND THIS WOULD GIVE US THE OPPORTUNITY, THE ASSEMBLY, AS WELL

                    AS THE SENATE, TO HELP DIRECT THOSE FUNDS WHERE AFFORDABLE HOUSING

                    PROJECTS SHOULD BE BUILT, IN WHAT COMMUNITIES, AND HOW THEY AFFECT

                    NEW YORK STATE AS A WHOLE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  I SEE.  OKAY.  VERY GOOD,

                    STEVE.  THANK YOU.  I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS, AND HAVE A GREAT REST OF

                    THE SUMMER.

                                 MR. CYMBROWITZ:  THANK YOU.  YOU, TOO, MIKE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THANK YOU, STEVE.

                                 ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    FITZPATRICK.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  I -- I -- I CERTAINLY APPLAUD THE

                    SPONSOR'S GOAL TO ADD A VOICE FROM THE ASSEMBLY, A VOICE FROM THE

                    SENATE.  BUT I THINK IN THESE TIMES, EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T RECEIVE A

                    SALARY, THEY WOULD ONLY RECEIVE EXPENSES, WE -- WE HAVE NOT VOTED ON

                    THIS BILL IN THE PAST, AND I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO VOTE ON IT NOW.  I

                    INTEND TO VOTE NO FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT EXPANDING GOVERNMENT

                    RIGHT NOW IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.  THERE ARE ENOUGH MEMBERS ON THIS BOARD

                    TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS HERE.  WE ARE IN CONTACT WITH THE HOUSING

                    FINANCE AGENCY, SO OUR VOICES ARE ALREADY HEARD ON WHAT THEY ARE

                    VOTING ON AND WHAT THEY'RE REVIEWING, AND THEY STAY IN TOUCH WITH US.

                                         213



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SO I DON'T SEE THE NEED FOR IT.  AND EVEN THOUGH THE EXPENSE WOULD BE

                    RATHER SMALL, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE REALLY JUST ADDING PATRONAGE POSITIONS

                    THAT I DON'T THINK ARE NECESSARY AND, FRANKLY, NOT PRUDENT AT THIS TIME.

                    YOU KNOW, IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT, AS THE SAYING GOES.  AND THIS IS

                    A SYSTEM THAT WORKS RATHER WELL, AND I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO ADD ANY

                    MORE PATRONAGE APPOINTMENTS AND ADD EXTRA EXPENSE AT THIS TIME.

                                 AND FOR THOSE REASONS, I'LL BE VOTING NO.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    FITZPATRICK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 423.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BARRON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BARRON:  THERE'S ANOTHER SAYING THAT SAYS IF IT

                    AIN'T BROKE, IMPROVE IT ANYWAY.  CONSTANT IMPROVEMENT IS ALWAYS

                    NEEDED.  QUALITY IMPROVEMENT IS ALWAYS NEEDED.  I WANT TO COMMEND

                    THE CHAIR ON THIS BILL BECAUSE THERE'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN HOUSING

                    MONEY THAT CAN BE SPENT ON AFFORDABLE HOUSING.  AND CERTAINLY, THERE

                    SHOULDN'T BE ANYBODY IN THE ASSEMBLY OR THE SENATE THAT WE WOULD BE

                    OPPOSED TO ADDING THE VOICE OF THE ASSEMBLY AND THE VOICE OF THE

                                         214



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SENATE IN IT TO INFLUENCE THAT KIND OF HOUSING IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT

                    IT'S -- IT'S SORELY NEEDED NOW.  AND SO I WANT TO COMMEND THE CHAIR ON

                    THIS BILL.  IT'S A VERY TIMELY BILL CONSIDERING THE PANDEMIC, CONSIDERING

                    WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH IN OUR COMMUNITIES AROUND HOUSING

                    AND EMPLOYMENT.

                                 THIS IS AN EXCELLENT BILL.  I THINK IT WILL ADVANCE THE

                    POSSIBILITY OF GETTING REAL AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMING TO THE NEEDIEST

                    COMMUNITIES IN THIS STATE, AND I WOULD URGE A YES VOTE ON THIS BILL AND

                    COMMEND THE CHAIR FOR PROPOSING IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BARRON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MR. BARRON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING REPUBLICANS IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION:  MR. BYRNE,

                    MR. DIPIETRO, MR. FITZPATRICK, MR. FRIEND, MR. HAWLEY, MR.

                    MANKTELOW, MR. NORRIS AND MR. SCHMITT.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL.  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S04188, CALENDAR NO.

                                         215



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    442, SENATOR KENNEDY (A09140, ABINANTI, WEPRIN, JEAN-PIERRE,

                    COLTON, GALEF).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE BANKING LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    REQUIRING FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS TO NOTIFY A CUSTOMER PRIOR TO CHARGING A

                    FEE BASED ON ACCOUNT INACTIVITY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  AN EXPLANATION HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED, MR. ABINANTI.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL

                    REQUIRES BANKING INSTITUTIONS TO GIVE A 30-DAY NOTICE THAT IT WILL -- THAT

                    THE INSTITUTION WILL BE CHARGING A FEE BASED ON ACCOUNT INACTIVITY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW

                    QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MR. ABINANTI?

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  YES, MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD BE GLAD

                    TO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE SPONSOR WILL

                    YIELD.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. ABINANTI.  I DO JUST

                    HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS.  SO THIS BILL HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 2003, AND I

                    GUESS MY INITIAL QUESTION IS, WHY IS THIS BILL NECESSARY?

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THIS BILL IS NECESSARY TO MAKE SURE

                    THAT THERE'S A UNIFORM PRACTICE.  MANY OF THE BANKS HAVE NOW ADOPTED

                    THIS PRACTICE OF NOTIFYING THEIR CUSTOMERS BEFORE THEY IMPOSE A FEE ON A

                    -- A SILENT ACCOUNT, ON AN ACCOUNT THAT -- THAT'S BEEN INACTIVE FOR QUITE

                    SOME TIME.  MANY PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE THAT THEY MUST KEEP THEIR

                                         216



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ACCOUNTS ACTIVE.  IF THEY HAVE A CD OR IF THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF AN

                    ESCROW ACCOUNT OR SOME ACCOUNT FOR ONE OF THEIR KIDS, THEY JUST PUT

                    MONEY IN IT AND FORGET ABOUT IT, THEY DON'T REALIZE THAT THEY HAVE TO

                    KEEP IN CONTACT WITH THE BANK AND -- AND MAKE SURE THE BANK KNOWS

                    THAT THAT ACCOUNT IS STILL ACTIVE.  SO THIS ALLOWS THEM 30 DAYS TO GIVE

                    THAT BANK THE NOTICE THAT THIS ACCOUNT IS STILL ACTIVE, AND IF NECESSARY,

                    THEY COULD DEPOSIT A DOLLAR IN IT OR -- OR WHATEVER IS NECESSARY BY THAT

                    BANK.  BUT THIS ALSO REQUIRES THAT THE BANK GIVE SUFFICIENT INFORMATION

                    FOR THE CUSTOMER TO BE ABLE TO CONTACT THE BANK.  THEY HAVE TO GIVE THE

                    NAME AND -- AND THE FULL CONTACT INFORMATION OF SOME REPRESENTATIVE SO

                    THAT THAT PERSON WHO GETS THIS NOTICE KNOWS HOW TO RESPOND.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND I ACTUALLY LIKE THAT PART OF THE

                    BILL, BECAUSE IF MY EXPERIENCE IS ANYTHING LIKE A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE,

                    YOU GET INTO A -- A DIALING PROBLEM WHERE YOU'RE JUST, YOU KNOW,

                    CONSTANTLY PUSHING BUTTONS TO TRY TO REACH A PERSON THAT COULD ANSWER

                    YOUR QUESTION.  SO I DO LIKE THAT PART ABOUT THE BILL.  YOU TALKED ABOUT

                    ONE OF THE RATIONALES IS TO HAVE AN EVEN AND CONSISTENT PRACTICE ACROSS

                    THE BOARD.  SO THIS BILL WOULD APPLY TO BANKS, TRUST COMPANIES, SAVINGS

                    BANKS, SAVINGS AND LOAN ASSOCIATIONS, CREDIT UNIONS, MORTGAGE BROKERS,

                    MORTGAGE BANKERS OR OTHER INVESTMENT ENTITIES WHERE THE HEADQUARTERS

                    IS WITHIN OR OUTSIDE THE STATE.  IS -- THAT'S CORRECT, ISN'T IT?

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THAT'S WHAT THE LANGUAGE OF THE

                    BILL IS, YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YES.  SO ONE -- ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IN

                    REVIEWING THIS IS THAT BECAUSE OF FEDERAL PREEMPTION, I DON'T BELIEVE

                                         217



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THAT SOMETHING LIKE A FEDERAL CREDIT UNION IS -- WOULD BE REQUIRED TO

                    COMPLY WITH THIS BILL.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  UNFORTUNATELY, YOU'RE PROBABLY

                    CORRECT.  WE WOULD LIKE THE FEDERAL INSTITUTIONS TO FOLLOW OUR LEAD, AND

                    IF WE COULD FIND A WAY TO REQUIRE THEM TO GIVE THE SAME CONSUMER

                    PROTECTIONS AS WE GIVE THROUGH OUR BANKS WE WOULD DO SO.  BUT THIS IS

                    DESIGNED TO ENCOMPASS ANY BANK OR OTHER FINANCIAL INSTITUTION WHICH IS

                    REGULATED BY THE STATE OF NEW YORK NO MATTER WHERE THEY'RE

                    HEADQUARTERED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO THIS DOES IMPOSE A MANDATE ON --

                    ON THE BANKING INDUSTRY, PRETTY MUCH, EXCEPT IF YOU ARE A FEDERAL

                    CREDIT UNION, YOU WOULD NOT NEED TO -- OR A FEDERAL BANKING INSTITUTION,

                    YOU WOULD NOT NEED TO FOLLOW THIS.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  RIGHT.  WELL, WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT

                    THEY WILL FOLLOW -- THAT THE FEDERALS WILL FOLLOW THIS.  AND THIS IS A VERY

                    MINIMAL COST, ESPECIALLY IF YOU CONSIDER WHAT HAPPENS IF A PERSON IS

                    UNAWARE THAT THERE'S A FEE BEING IMPOSED OR THAT THE ACCOUNT IS GOING

                    TO BECOME INACTIVE.  AND THEN THE PERSON FINDS OUT, NOW THEY HAVE TO

                    REACTIVATE THE ACCOUNT.  IT'S A LOT EASIER FOR THE INSTITUTION AND PROBABLY

                    A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE TO NOTIFY THE PERSON IN ADVANCE.  PLUS, THIS ALLOWS

                    FOR ELECTRONIC MAIL NOTIFICATION, WHICH SHOULD BE VERY EASY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEAH.  I THINK -- I THINK THE WAY THAT

                    MAYBE THE FEDERAL -- THE WAY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD HANDLED IT

                    WAS AT THE -- AT THE BEGINNING, WHEN THE ACCOUNT -- WHATEVER THAT KIND

                    OF ACCOUNT IS -- IS STARTED UNDER THE FEDERAL TRUTH AND SAVINGS ACT THAT

                                         218



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    REQUIRES BANKS TO MAINTAIN A SCHEDULE AND PROVIDE NOTICE OF ALL

                    CHARGES, FEES AND PENALTIES.  SO THEY DO IT AT THE BEGINNING.  I WOULD

                    IMAGINE YOUR POSITION WOULD BE, YEAH, BUT THAT COULD BE SOME TIME

                    AGO AND --

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  RIGHT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  -- THEN PEOPLE HAVE FORGOTTEN.  BUT

                    THEY CERTAINLY, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, PEOPLE WERE NOTIFIED UNDER

                    FEDERAL LAW THAT -- THAT THESE -- THERE WAS A FEE SCHEDULE AND THIS IS

                    WHAT THE FEE SCHEDULE IS.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  WELL, IT'S HELPFUL TO NOTIFY IN

                    ADVANCE, BUT PEOPLE NEED A REMINDER.  AND -- AND THE BANKS COULD VERY

                    EASILY SET UP A SCHEDULE OF ELECTRONIC MAIL SO THAT 30 DAYS BEFORE EACH

                    ACCOUNT COMES DUE, THEY CAN HAVE THAT ELECTRONIC MAIL GO OUT TO THE

                    CUSTOMERS.  AND WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT IF -- IF WE PASS THIS AND IT'S ALREADY

                    PASSED THE OTHER HOUSE, IF IT GETS ENACTED, THAT MAYBE THE FEDS WILL GET

                    THE IDEA THAT THIS IS A -- A GOOD THING TO DO AND THEY'LL ADD IT TO THEIR

                    REGULATIONS AS WELL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. ABINANTI.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. WALSH:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MS. WALSH ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO I DO UNDERSTAND -- YOU KNOW,

                    SOMETIMES OLD BILLS, YOU KNOW, ARE -- ARE OLD FOR A REASON.  THIS ONE

                    SEEMS TO -- YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND WHERE IT'S COMING FROM.  I

                    UNDERSTAND WHAT THE BILL IS TRYING TO DO AND I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR

                                         219



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    BRINGING IT FORWARD.  I -- I DO THINK, THOUGH, THAT PEOPLE, CONSUMERS

                    NEED TO HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR KNOWING WHAT THE RULES ARE.  AND

                    HERE, WE KNOW THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN THE -- IN THE TRUTH AND

                    LENDING -- NO, NOT THE TRUTH IN LENDING STATEMENT, THE -- I'M SORRY, THE

                    FEDERAL TRUTH IN SAVINGS ACT REQUIRES THE PROMULGATION OF A FEE

                    SCHEDULE TO PEOPLE BANKING.  AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT IF THE CONSUMER

                    DOESN'T LIKE THAT FEE SCHEDULE OR THAT -- THAT SCHEDULE OF PENALTIES, THEY

                    HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO TAKE THEIR BUSINESS DOWN THE ROAD TO SOME OTHER

                    PLACE.  BUT I THINK MY -- MY PRIMARY CONCERN WITH THE BILL IS REALLY --

                    WE -- WE TOUCHED ON IT DURING DEBATE -- IS THE APPLICABILITY OR THE

                    NON-APPLICABILITY TO FEDERAL INSTITUTIONS BECAUSE OF FEDERAL

                    PREEMPTION.  SO IT DOESN'T SEEM FAIR TO ME TO HAVE A BILL LIKE THIS PASS

                    AND HAVE IT AFFECT ONLY PART OF THE INDUSTRY AND NOT THE REST OF THE PART.

                    I THINK IT ENDS UP HURTING -- IT'S HURTING, LIKE, STATE CREDIT UNIONS, FOR

                    EXAMPLE, WHICH COULD BE MAYBE A LITTLE BIT SMALLER AND -- BUT ARE STILL

                    VERY VALUABLE AND SERVING THE COMMUNITY.  ALTHOUGH THE SPONSOR

                    REFERRED TO IT AS BEING A -- A MINIMAL BURDEN, I THINK IT IS A BURDEN STILL.

                    AND, YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE REASONS I DO HAVE CONCERNS WITH THE BILL.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 90 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 442.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                                         220



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS.  THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS IS PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  COLLEAGUES WISHING TO

                    VOTE NEGATIVE SHOULD CONTACT OUR OFFICES.  WE'LL BE HAPPY TO TAKE THEIR

                    VOTE AND HAVE IT RECORDED.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING MINORITY MEMBERS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE:  MR. DESTEFANO, MR.

                    KOLB AND MS. MALLIOTAKIS.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  SO NOTED, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                         221



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09763-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 471, HYNDMAN, COOK, PERRY, VANEL.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE FOR-HIRE MOTOR VEHICLE

                    SAFETY PROGRAM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MS. HYNDMAN, AN

                    EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  OKAY.  THIS BILL WOULD PERMIT

                    ASSOCIATIONS REPRESENTING FOR-HIRE MOTOR VEHICLES TO ESTABLISH AND

                    IMPLEMENT COMPREHENSIVE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS TO PROMOTE FOR-HIRE

                    MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY.  COMPLETION OF SUCH PROGRAMS WOULD RESULT IN AN

                    ACTUARIALLY-APPROPRIATE PREMIUM -- PREMIUM RATE REDUCTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MR. GARBARINO.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  FOR YOU, YES.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  AW, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  I'M GONNA MISS YOU.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  I'M BEING TREATED SO WELL TODAY.

                    THIS IS NICE.  I SHOULD LEAVE ALL THE TIME.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 MS. HYNDMAN, I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

                                         222



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WHO -- SO WHO CREATES THIS -- THIS CLASS?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  THE ASSOCIATION.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  AND NOW IS THE -- IS THE

                    CLASS -- DOES IT HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY ANYBODY OR DOES IT -- OR DO THEY

                    JUST MAKE IT?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF -- DFS HAS TO APPROVE IT.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY, SO THE SUPERINTENDENT

                    REVIEWS THE CLASS THAT'S -- THAT'S -- THAT'S CREATED AND THE SUPERINTENDENT

                    COMES UP WITH A DISCOUNT?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  YES, THE SUPERINTENDENT APPROVES

                    THE DISCOUNT.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  WHO COMES UP WITH THE

                    DISCOUNT AND HOW MUCH IT IS?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  THE INSURERS DO.  THE INSURANCE

                    COMPANIES.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  THE INSURERS.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  YES.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  NOW, WHAT IS THE DISCOUNT

                    BASED ON?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  THEY HAVE TO HAVE TAKEN THE --

                    WELL, THEY HAVE -- THE DRIVERS WOULD HAVE TO HAVE TAKEN THE COURSE THAT

                    THE ASSOCIATION -- THAT DFS APPROVES, AND THEN THE -- THEY WOULD GET

                    THE DISCOUNT.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  AND THE AMOUNT IS BASED

                                         223



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ON -- WHO DETERMINES THE AMOUNT OF THIS WAS MY QUESTION.  I'M SORRY.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  THE -- THE POLICY --

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 SO, THE INSURANCE COMPANY DETERMINES WHAT THE

                    ACTUAL DISCOUNT WOULD BE.  THAT WOULD -- WE DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER

                    YET.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  OKAY.  IT WOULD VARY.

                    ALL RIGHT.  NOW, I WAS READING THROUGH THE LEGISLATION AND IT TALKS

                    ABOUT WHAT HAS TO BE IN THE TEST AND THAT THE SUPERINTENDENT APPROVES

                    THE TEST, I GUESS.  IT DOESN'T -- IT DOESN'T WHO'S REQUIRED TO TAKE THE TEST.

                    IS IT -- IS IT -- DOES EVERY DRIVER HAVE TO TAKE THE TEST?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  IF THEY WANT TO -- YEAH, IF -- IF THEY

                    WANT THE DISCOUNT THEN THEY'LL TAKE THE TEST.  SO IT'S NOT MANDATORY, IT'S

                    NOT MANDATED.  THE INDIVIDUAL DRIVERS CAN OPT TO TAKE IT, JUST LIKE AS AN

                    INDIVIDUAL I OPT FOR THE DEFENSIVE DRIVER TEST FOR THE DISCOUNT.  SO, IT'S

                    UP TO THE DRIVER IF THEY WOULD WANT TO TAKE THE -- THE COURSE.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  I -- I UNDERSTAND THAT.  AND THEN

                    FOR US IT'S -- YOU KNOW, IT'S EASY TO DO IT BECAUSE WE TAKE THE COURSE, IT

                    TRAVELS WITH US TO WHATEVER CAR WE'RE -- WE'RE DRIVING.  BUT, YOU KNOW,

                    A -- A FOR-HIRE DRIVER MIGHT BE ONE OF TEN THAT WORKS FOR A COMPANY,

                    AND THE -- THE BUS -- THE BUS IS, I THINK, WHAT YOU'RE BASING THIS ON --

                    THE BUSES MIGHT BE OWNED BY A COMPANY, THEY HAVE TEN DRIVERS.  FOR

                    THE COMPANY TO GET THE DISCOUNT FOR ITS INSURANCE POLICY, DOES EVERY

                    DRIVER HAVE TO TAKE THE TEST, OR IF ONE DRIVER TAKES THE TEST IS THAT

                    ENOUGH?  IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE IT IN THE BILL.

                                         224



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  YEAH, I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.

                    THERE WAS MORE SPECIFIC TO THE COMMUTER VAN DRIVERS.  AND THE

                    COMMUTER VAN DRIVERS OWN THEIR OWN VAN, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY FOR EIGHT

                    PASSENGERS OR MORE, AND THIS WAS MORE DIRECTED TOWARDS THEM.  YES, IT

                    WOULD BENEFIT SOME AMBULETTE AND BUS COMPANIES WHO HAVE,

                    UNFORTUNATELY, DUE TO COVID AND THE CHANGE IN THE LAW, UNFORTUNATELY

                    ARE NO LONGER IN OPERATION.  BUT FOR THE ONES THAT ARE EXISTING, THIS IS

                    MORE SPECIFIC TO COMMUTER VANS.  I -- SO IT WOULD BE -- FOR THOSE -- FOR

                    THOSE WHO WORK FOR BUS COMPANIES, THEY WOULD -- THE INDIVIDUAL

                    WOULD TAKE IT AND HAVE THE CERTIFICATE AND GIVE THAT TO THEIR ASSOCIATION.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  BUT I'M -- BUT THE INDIVIDUAL --

                    WHAT I'M SAYING IS, SAY THERE'S, YOU KNOW, ONE COMPANY HAS TEN -- TEN

                    BUSES THAT FALL UNDER THIS, OR TEN VEHICLES THAT FALL UNDER THE DEFINITION,

                    MY QUESTION IS, DO ALL OF THE DRIVERS FOR THOSE VEHICLES, FOR THE -- FOR

                    THE COMPANY TO GET THE DISCOUNT ON ITS POLICY, DO ALL OF THEM HAVE TO

                    TAKE THE TEST?  DO JUST PART OF THEM HAVE TO TAKE THE TEST?  IF ONE OF

                    THEM LEAVES IN THE MIDDLE -- IN THE MIDDLE OF THE YEAR, DOES THE POLICY

                    RATE GO UP?  I'M JUST -- ARE THESE --

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  SO, THIS LEGISLATION DOESN'T

                    DETERMINE THAT.  THE SUPERINTENDENT FOR DFS WOULD DETERMINE EXACTLY

                    WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY, SO THE -- THE REGULATIONS

                    -- THE SUPERINTENDENT WOULD COME UP WITH REGULATIONS THAT WOULD

                    DETERMINE --

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  IF IT WAS EACH DRIVER OR THE

                                         225



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ASSOCIATION WOULD HAVE A BLANKET, YEAH.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  VERY -- THANK

                    YOU VERY MUCH, MS. HYNDMAN.  I APPRECIATE THE ANSWERS.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GARBARINO:  MR. SPEAKER, THIS -- THE INCREASE

                    IN INSURANCE RATES ON THESE COMPANIES IS DUE TO THE LIMOUSINE ACCIDENT

                    THAT HAPPENED IN UPSTATE NEW YORK SEVERAL YEARS AGO, AND THE POLICIES

                    THAT WE CHANGED IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET INCREASING THE LIMITS, THE POLICY

                    LIMITS FOR THESE TYPES OF VEHICLES.  THIS -- YOU KNOW, WITH THOSE

                    INCREASED POLICY -- POLICY LIMITS, THE INSURANCE RATES WENT UP, WHICH

                    HAS STARTED TO HURT SOME OF THE OWNERS OF THESE COMPANIES.  NOW

                    THEY'RE PROPOSING -- THIS BILL PROPOSES TO CREATE A CLASS, A SAFETY CLASS

                    THAT IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT THERE'S ANY -- THERE'S NO CONNECTION AS TO

                    WHETHER OR NOT IT WILL ACTUALLY MAKE THE DRIVER SAFER.  THERE DOESN'T

                    SEEM TO BE ANY PROOF OR CONNECTION OR ANY OTHER STATE, I THINK, THAT

                    DOES THIS.  AND I'M CONCERNED BECAUSE WE'RE NOW -- WE -- WE INCREASE

                    THE LIMITS, WHICH INCREASE THE RATES, BUT NOW WE'RE GOING TO USE THIS

                    SAFETY TEST THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY NOT BE -- MIGHT -- THAT MIGHT NOT ACTUALLY

                    MAKE THINGS SAFER.  AND THAT -- THAT'S CONCERNING TO ME.  I'M ALSO

                    CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW IT'S GOING TO APPLY TO THE COMPANIES

                    THAT HAVE ONE OR MORE DRIVER -- OR HAVE MORE THAN ONE DRIVER AND MORE

                    THAN ONE VEHICLE.  I, YOU KNOW, I'D HAVE TO -- I GUESS IT'S GOING TO BE

                    ADDRESSING REGULATIONS, AS THE SPONSOR SAID.  BUT THAT ALSO CONCERNED

                    ME BECAUSE IT WASN'T CLEAR IN THE LEGISLATION.  I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT

                                         226



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND THE -- AND HOW IMPORTANT THESE FOR-DRIVER [SIC] VANS ARE IN THE

                    CITY.  MAYBE A -- A MORE SPECIFIC TARGETED LEGISLATION WOULD --

                    SPECIFICALLY TARGETING THOSE WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL HERE BECAUSE I

                    THINK THIS IS GOING TO TAKE IN A LOT MORE COMPANIES AND VEHICLES THAN

                    MAYBE THE SPONSOR INTENDED.  I -- I LIKE THE IDEA OF THE BILL, BUT FOR THE

                    REASONS I'VE STATED, I -- I CAN'T SUPPORT IT AND I ENCOURAGE MY

                    COLLEAGUES ALSO TO VOTE NO.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GARBARINO.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  SO TO MY COLLEAGUE'S CONCERN,

                    THERE ARE -- WE TRIED TO ASSIST THE COMMUTER VAN INDUSTRY WITH ONE BILL

                    BUT APPARENTLY THERE ARE MORE BILLS THAT ARE COMING.  SO I WANT TO ALLAY

                    THE CONCERNS OF MY COLLEAGUE.  SO, COMMUTER VAN DRIVERS IN THE CITY OF

                    NEW YORK HAVE TO HAVE A CLASSIFICATION OF A CDL LICENSE, CLASS C.

                    THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN OPTICAL CERTIFICATION.  THEY HAVE TO BELONG TO A

                    BASE.  THEY HAVE TO HAVE A MEDICAL EVERY TWO YEARS.  THEY HAVE TO

                    TAKE A DEFENSIVE DRIVER'S COURSE.  IN NEW YORK CITY THEY HAVE TO APPLY

                    FOR A HACK LICENSE FROM THE TLC.  THEY'RE FINGERPRINTED.  THEY HAVE TO

                    HAVE BACKGROUND CHECKS FROM THE CITY AND THE STATE.  AND DRIVING IN

                    NEW YORK CITY, AS YOU KNOW, CAN BE A CHALLENGE FOR SOME PEOPLE.  SO

                    WITH ALL OF THESE -- WITH ALL OF THESE CLASSIFICATIONS THAT THE COMMUTER

                                         227



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    VAN DRIVERS HAVE TO TAKE, THIS COURSE WOULD JUST ENHANCE THEIR ABILITY TO

                    MAKE SURE THAT THE PASSENGERS THAT THEY TAKE IN NEW YORK CITY,

                    PARTICULARLY IN QUEENS AND BROOKLYN, ARE SAFE.  THE COMMUTER VANS

                    THAT ARE AFFECTIONATELY KNOWN IN OUR COMMUNITIES AS "DOLLAR VAN"

                    DRIVERS, AND A LOT OF THEM ARE FROM THE WEST INDIES, FROM THE

                    CARIBBEAN.  AND THEY HAVE SUPPLANTED IN SOME CASES THE BUS SYSTEMS

                    THAT EXIST.  AND ONLY THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO GROW BECAUSE OF DELAYED

                    BUSES OR NO BUSES AT ALL.  SO THIS INDUSTRY OF ENTREPRENEURS HAS GROWN

                    IN NEW YORK CITY.  THEY -- A LOT OF MY CONSTITUENTS HAVE RELIED ON

                    THEM TO GET BACK AND FORTH TO THE SUBWAY STATION EVERY MORNING

                    BECAUSE IN MY COMMUNITY THERE'S NO SUBWAY STATION.  YOU HAVE TO

                    TAKE A BUS, AND IF THE BUSES DON'T COME, YOU TAKE WHAT'S KNOWN AS THE

                    DOLLAR VAN.

                                 AND SO I'D LIKE TO THANK PROGRAM AND COUNSEL FOR

                    THEIR -- FOR THEIR HELP IN GETTING THIS LEGISLATION AND MORE LEGISLATION TO

                    COME.  I'D LIKE TO REALLY THANK THEM FOR WORKING WITH ME ON THIS BILL.

                    I'D ALSO LIKE TO THANK MR. HECTOR RICKETTS, WHO'S ALSO A CONSTITUENT OF

                    MINE, WHO WORKS REALLY HARD TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COMMUTER VANS ARE

                    RECOGNIZED AS A VIABLE SOURCE OF TRANSPORTATION IN THE CITY AND THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK, AND THE AMOUNT OF QUALIFICATIONS THEY HAVE TO GO

                    THROUGH TO BE A LICENSED COMMUTER VAN DRIVER.  I STRESS THAT WORD

                    "LICENSED" BECAUSE WE KNOW OF THE IMPACT OF SOME OF THE UNLICENSED

                    VEHICLES WHO DON'T DO ANY OF THIS AND STILL ARE ABLE TO TRANSPORT

                    INDIVIDUALS.  SO THIS IS ALSO MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE,

                    AND WILL CONTINUE TO DRIVE SAFELY IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK, PARTICULARLY

                                         228



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    IN THE 29TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WILL BE VOTING NO [SIC] AND

                    I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

                                 I'M VOTING YES.  SORRY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  I THINK YOU'RE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE, MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  I AM.  EXCUSE ME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 471.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL.  THOSE WHO WISH TO

                    SUPPORT IT SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE SO WE CAN

                    PROPERLY RECORD YOUR VOTE.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS WILL BE A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  WE ARE ASKING

                                         229



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    COLLEAGUES WHO DESIRE TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE, THEY SHOULD CONTACT OUR

                    OFFICES AND WE'LL BE HAPPY TO RECORD YOUR VOTE.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE INSURANCE

                    INDUSTRY ENGAGES IN VERY SOPHISTICATED AND COMPREHENSIVE RISK

                    ANALYSIS IN DETERMINING WHAT THEIR INSURANCE RATES SHOULD BE FOR

                    DIFFERENT VEHICLES.  AND SO THEY TRACK VERY CAREFULLY WHAT KIND OF

                    LOSSES THEY GET FOR WHICH TYPE OF VEHICLES AND WHICH TYPE OF DRIVERS SO

                    THAT THEY CAN PROPERLY PRICE THE PREMIUM.  AND AS WE'VE SEEN WITH

                    MULTIPLE ADS, THERE'S A NUMBER OF WAYS THEY TRY TO GET A COMPETITIVE

                    ADVANTAGE BY OFFERING LOWER PREMIUMS.  WHETHER IT'S THE ALLSTATE SAFE

                    DRIVER PROGRAM, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THERE'S AN APP, APPARENTLY, THAT

                    RESULTS IN A REDUCED PREMIUM FOR SAFE DRIVERS WHICH IS BASED ON

                    ACTUARIAL STUDIES.  OR WHETHER IT'S LIBERTY, THAT WRITES ONLY WHAT YOU

                    NEED, OR WHETHER IT'S GEICO YOU GIVE THEM A CALL AND 15 MINUTES LATER

                    YOU'LL FIND OUT HOW YOU FARE.  BUT IT'S A VERY SOPHISTICATED PROCESS.  IT

                    IS A SOPHISTICATED PROCESS THAT WE DO NOT ENGAGE IN HERE IN THE

                    LEGISLATURE.  WE NEITHER HAVE THE DATA NOR THE ABILITY NOR THE EXPERTISE

                    TO DO THAT TYPE OF SOPHISTICATED ACCOUNTING AND RATE SETTING.  AND THAT'S

                    WHY WE SHOULD BE VERY HESITANT ABOUT PASSING LEGISLATION THAT

                    MANDATES A REDUCTION IN INSURANCE PREMIUMS THAT IS NOT ACTUARIALLY

                    BASED.  BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE ONE GROUP OF INSUREDS AND REQUIRE

                                         230



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    INSURANCE COMPANIES TO PROVIDE A LOWER INSURANCE RATE TO THEM THAT'S

                    NOT ACTUARIALLY BASED, THEN THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO RAISE THE RATES

                    FOR EVERYONE ELSE.  AND WE SHOULD NOT USE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES AS

                    A WAY OF COLLECTING MONEY FROM SOME PEOPLE TO PAY FOR HIGHER RISKS

                    THAT ARE INCURRED BY OTHERS.

                                 FOR THAT REASON, I'LL BE OPPOSING IT.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MR.

                    CROUCH IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THE LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  FOR OUR NEXT ITEMS ON OUR DEBATE LIST, WE'RE GOING TO GO TO

                    RULES REPORT NO. 153 BY MS. PAULIN, NO. 154 BY MR. PICHARDO, NO.

                    159 BY MR. O'DONNELL AND NO. 170 BY MS. HUNTER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01193-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 153, PAULIN, COOK, CYMBROWITZ, ABINANTI, GUNTHER,

                    WEPRIN, HEVESI, RYAN, STIRPE, BUCHWALD, DIPIETRO, BRABENEC, BLAKE,

                    FAHY, ORTIZ, COLTON, NORRIS, BARRETT, PHEFFER AMATO, DINOWITZ, LALOR,

                                         231



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ZEBROWSKI, STECK, HUNTER, BRONSON, SOLAGES, PEOPLES-STOKES, DE LA

                    ROSA, B. MILLER, GARBARINO, MORINELLO, FITZPATRICK, DICKENS,

                    MAGNARELLI, PICHARDO, SANTABARBARA, GIGLIO, D. ROSENTHAL, KIM,

                    RODRIGUEZ, ABBATE, JONES, ARROYO, VANEL, MCDONOUGH, AUBRY, L.

                    ROSENTHAL, ENGLEBRIGHT, LAVINE, D'URSO, JAFFEE, JOYNER, SEAWRIGHT, M.

                    L. MILLER, FERNANDEZ, FALL, BURKE, REILLY, REYES, SALKA, WALLACE,

                    JACOBSON, JEAN-PIERRE, MOSLEY, MANKTELOW, TAYLOR, BENEDETTO, STERN,

                    GRIFFIN, BUTTENSCHON, MALLIOTAKIS, EICHENSTEIN, LUPARDO, WOERNER.

                    AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE USE OF ORAL

                    MEDICATIONS BY OPTOMETRISTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. PAULIN.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.  THIS BILL AUTHORIZES LICENSED

                    OPTOMETRISTS TO RECEIVE CERTIFICATION TO PRESCRIBE CERTAIN ORAL

                    MEDICATIONS; TEN OF THEM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. -- MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. PAULIN YIELDS.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.  AS I MENTIONED THE OTHER DAY

                    WHEN -- WHEN THIS WENT THROUGH WAYS AND MEANS, MANY OF US, I'M

                    SURE NONE MORE THAN YOU, BUT MANY OF US WHO HAVE SERVED ON THE

                    HIGHER ED COMMITTEE AT SOME POINT OVER THE YEARS ARE VERY FAMILIAR

                    WITH THIS ISSUE, AND PROBABLY HAVE HAD COUNTLESS MEETINGS AND

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    CONVERSATIONS WITH BOTH THE OPHTHALMOLOGISTS AND THE OPTOMETRISTS

                    ABOUT THE ISSUE.  SO, I JUST WANTED TO GO THROUGH A LITTLE BIT, BECAUSE I

                    KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT ITERATIONS OF THIS BILL OVER THE YEARS,

                    DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS ON OPTOMETRISTS THAT WILL ALLOW THEM TO

                    PRESCRIBE.  SO, I WANT TO START THERE, THOUGH.  CURRENTLY IN NEW YORK

                    STATE, OPTOMETRISTS ARE SOLELY ALLOWED TO PRESCRIBE DROPS AND THINGS OF

                    THAT NATURE; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  TOPICAL.

                                 MR. RA:  TOPICAL.  AND THIS WOULD ALLOW THEM TO

                    PRESCRIBE ORAL MEDICATION?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  NOW, YOU KNOW, LOOKING THROUGH, I

                    KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES I'VE SEEN, I GUESS,

                    STATISTICS THAT IT'S US AND MASSACHUSETTS THAT HAVE THIS LEVEL OF

                    LIMITATION ON THE OPTOMETRISTS, BUT I THINK IT VARIES THROUGHOUT THE

                    COUNTRY HOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT TYPES OF MEDICATIONS OPTOMETRISTS ARE

                    ABLE TO ADMINISTER.  UNDER THIS, HOW -- HOW, YOU KNOW, HOW IS THAT

                    GOING TO BE DETERMINED, WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T PRESCRIBE?  CAN THEY

                    PRESCRIBE A FULL COMPLIMENT OF -- OF MEDICATIONS FOR -- FOR EYE DISEASES

                    AND DISORDERS AND -- AND AILMENTS, OR IS IT LIMITED TO CERTAIN CLASSES OR

                    CERTAIN TYPES OF ISSUES?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES, IT'S -- IT'S LIMITED.  IT'S LIMITED IN

                    THE LAW.  IT'S VERY PRESCRIPTIVE AS FAR AS WHAT CAN BE PRESCRIBED BY OR

                    ADMINISTERED BY THE OPTOMETRIST.  IT'S -- IT'S OUTLINED EXPLICITLY IN THE

                    LAW.

                                         233



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  DO YOU -- WITH THE PASSAGE OF THIS,

                    IF THIS WERE TO BE ENACTED INTO LAW, I MEAN, WOULD THAT TAKE US ON PAR

                    WITH A LOT OF OTHER STATES, MORE, YOU KNOW, OR WOULD WE BE GIVEN

                    BIGGER -- MORE PERMISSIONS, I GUESS, TO OPTOMETRISTS THAN MOST STATES

                    DO?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  ALL BUT ONE STATE ALLOWS FOR ORALS TO BE

                    ADMINISTERED BY OPTOMETRISTS BESIDES US, SO THERE'S TWO OUTLIERS.  AND

                    IT DOESN'T TAKE US AS FAR AS MOST OTHER STATES, BUT IT CERTAINLY PUTS US

                    MUCH CLOSER IN LINE WITH SOME.  WE STILL WOULD NOT BE ONE OF THOSE

                    STATES THAT I WOULD DESCRIBE AS VERY LIBERAL IN TERMS OF ADMINISTERING

                    ORALS, BUT IT ALLOWS SOME OF THE VERY BASIC ORALS TO BE ADMINISTERED BY

                    THE OPTOMETRISTS IN NEW YORK.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND IF WE CAN JUST GO THROUGH, YOU

                    KNOW, A FEW ITEMS AS, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE VERY AWARE ONE OF THE -- OR

                    SEVERAL OF THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED WITH THIS DEAL WITH THE

                    TRAINING INVOLVED, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK WE -- WE SEE THIS ON ANY TYPE

                    OF SCOPE OF PRACTICE, YOU KNOW, RELATED BILL, DIFFERENT PROFESSIONS,

                    LICENSED PROFESSIONALS, YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH DIFFERENT LEVELS OF

                    EDUCATION, DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CLINICAL TRAINING AND ARE, AS A RESULT,

                    PERMITTED TO DO CERTAIN TYPES OF WORK OR NOT PERMITTED TO DO CERTAIN

                    TYPES OF WORK.

                                 SO, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE OBJECTIONS THAT HAS BEEN

                    RAISED WITH THIS WAS THAT A PREVIOUS -- A PREVIOUS VERSION BASICALLY

                    REQUIRED A -- A LEVEL OF SOMEWHAT COMPARABLE TRAINING TO WHAT AN

                    OPHTHALMOLOGIST WOULD GO THROUGH BEFORE ALLOWING THE OPTOMETRIST TO

                                         234



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    -- TO PRESCRIBE THE ORAL MEDICATIONS.  WHAT IS THE TRAINING REQUIREMENT

                    UNDER THIS VERSION OF THE BILL?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION.

                    SO, AN OPTOMETRIST HAS FOUR YEARS OF SCHOOLING, AND AN OPTOMETRIST'S

                    SCHOOLING ON PHARMACEUTICALS, ON DRUGS IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO WHAT AN

                    OPHTHALMOLOGIST GETS IN SCHOOL; IN FACT, VERY MANY OF THE SAME -- WE

                    HAVE A VERY, VERY PRESTIGIOUS SCHOOL RIGHT IN NEW YORK CITY AND THE

                    SAME PROFESSORS THAT TEACH OPHTHALMOLOGISTS AT SOME OF THE MEDICAL

                    SCHOOLS ARE THE SAME ONES THAT TEACH THE OPTOMETRISTS AT THE OPTOMETRY

                    SCHOOL.  SO, THE LEVEL OF EDUCATION COMING OUT OF SCHOOL IS VERY

                    SIMILAR.  IN TERMS OF CONTINUING EDUCATION, YOU KNOW, NEW YORK STATE

                    DOESN'T REQUIRE AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST TO HAVE ANY CONTINUING EDUCATION.

                    THEY MAY GET CONTINUING EDUCATION AS PART OF THE REQUIREMENT TO BE

                    ADMITTED TO A HOSPITAL, BUT NEW YORK STATE, UNLIKE MOST STATES, DOESN'T

                    REQUIRE CONTINUING EDUCATION.  I HAVE ANOTHER BILL ON THAT.

                                 THE OPTOMETRIST, HOWEVER, DOES ALREADY HAVE

                    CONTINUING EDUCATION FOR 36 HOURS, AND THIS WOULD ADD ANOTHER 18 THAT

                    WOULD BE SPECIFIC TO -- TO THIS ISSUE, TO ADMINISTERING ORALS.  SO, I

                    WOULD ARGUE THAT THE CURRENT BILL, AS OUTLINED, ACTUALLY HAS MUCH MORE

                    EDUCATION INVOLVED IN ADMINISTERING AN ORAL THAN AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST

                    WOULD HAVE.  THE OPHTHALMOLOGIST WOULD GET THEIR CONTINUING

                    EDUCATION, SO-TO-SPEAK, FROM DRUG -- FROM THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO SELL

                    THEM DRUGS.  THIS WOULD BE MUCH MORE OBJECTIVE IN IT'S -- AND PURE IN

                    IT'S -- IN IT'S -- IN IT'S CONTINUING EDUCATION MODE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND SO, THAT IS, I GUESS, AN

                                         235



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    OPTOMETRIST THEN WOULD DO THAT SPECIFIC 18 HOURS, YOU KNOW, AT

                    WHATEVER POINT, WHETHER, YOU KNOW, IT'S COMING OUT OF SCHOOL AND

                    THEY'RE NEW OR MAYBE THEY'VE BEEN PRACTICING FOR YEARS, SO THEY WOULD

                    DO THAT ONE TIME AND THEN THEY WOULD BASICALLY, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU

                    -- HOW YOU WOULD CONSIDER IT, BUT I GUESS THEY HAVE THAT NOW NEW BIT

                    OF ABILITY TO PRESCRIBE THE ORAL MEDICATION ONCE THEY'VE COMPLETED THAT

                    COURSE?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SO, AN OPTOMETRIST HAS 36 REQUIRED

                    CONTINUING EDUCATION CREDITS ANNUALLY, AND THIS WOULD ADD 18 THAT THEY

                    WOULD HAVE TO DO IF THEY CHOSE TO -- TO GET A CERTIFICATE IN, YOU KNOW,

                    IN ADMINISTERING ORALS.  IT WOULD BE A SEPARATE CERTIFICATE THAT THEY

                    WOULD BE REQUIRED BY NEW YORK STATE -- STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT

                    THAT THEY WOULD ASK FOR THAT THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO GET IF THEY

                    GRADUATED IN 2021 AND BEYOND.  BEFORE THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE A

                    COURSE, 40 HOUR COURSE AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE A TEST, AND

                    THEN, IF PASSED, THEY WOULD GET A CERTIFICATE AND THEN THEY WOULD BE

                    OBLIGATED TO MAINTAIN THEIR CERTIFICATE BY TAKING THE CONTINUING

                    EDUCATION CLASSES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE, ONE OF

                    THE OTHER THINGS THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP IS THAT UNDER A PREVIOUS

                    VERSION, THERE WAS THIS KIND OF OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE THAT WOULD'VE BEEN

                    HOUSED WITHIN THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT THAT -- THAT ESSENTIALLY

                    WOULD'VE, IN THE, I GUESS INFANCY OF -- OF THIS NEW ABILITY FOR

                    OPTOMETRISTS TO PRESCRIBE ORALS WOULD'VE BEEN TASKED WITH, KIND OF, YOU

                    KNOW, REVIEWING WHAT -- WHAT THOSE PROFESSIONALS WERE PRESCRIBING FOR

                                         236



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND -- AND GATHERING SOME INFORMATION.  WHAT -- WHAT'S THE REASON FOR

                    THAT NO LONGER BEING PART OF THE BILL?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, IT WAS, AS YOU SAY, IT WAS AGREED

                    TO BY BOTH PROFESSIONS, BUT REMEMBER -- YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO

                    REMEMBER THAT THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT HAS OVERSIGHT OVER THE

                    PROFESSIONS, AND WHEN WE GAVE THAT SECTION TO THEM THEY FELT THAT IT

                    WAS EXTRAORDINARILY EXPENSIVE AND UNNECESSARY TO HAVE THAT REVIEW,

                    THAT THEY WERE VERY CAPABLE OF DOING THE REVIEW, THAT THE REVIEW WAS

                    NOT GOING TO BE DONE IN A TIMELY WAY.  THERE WAS GOING TO BE A 90-DAY

                    LAG, SO THAT -- IT MADE NO SENSE, THAT IT WOULDN'T ADD TO THE OVERSIGHT OF

                    THE PROFESSION AND WOULD ONLY ADD TO THE EXPENSE OF SED AT A TIME,

                    FRANKLY, WHERE WE CAN'T AFFORD TO ADD ADDITIONAL COST TO THAT

                    DEPARTMENT, CONSIDERING ALL THAT'S HAPPENING WITH EDUCATION AND THE

                    PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE FACING WITH COVID AND ET CETERA.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  NOW, SO THE OVERSIGHT THAT'S STILL

                    THERE AND, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, LIKE

                    YOU SAID, OVERSEES, YOU KNOW, MANY OF THESE -- THESE LICENSED

                    PROFESSIONALS.  IS THERE ANY REQUIREMENT THOUGH, NOW, IN TERMS OF, YOU

                    KNOW, GATHERING THAT DATA OVER TIME OF WHAT IS BEING PRESCRIBED, WHAT

                    TYPE OF AILMENTS PEOPLE ARE SEEING OPTOMETRISTS FOR SO THAT, YOU KNOW,

                    AS WE GO INTO THE FUTURE IF WE WERE TO NEED TO REEVALUATE WHAT, YOU

                    KNOW, AN OPTOMETRIST CAN PRESCRIBE FOR OR NOT PRESCRIBE FOR, IS THERE

                    OVERSIGHT TO COLLECT THAT DATA UNDER THE CURRENT VERSION OF THE BILL?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, I WOULD ARGUE THAT, YOU KNOW,

                    BECAUSE OF THE COOPERATIVE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OPTOMETRISTS AND

                                         237



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    OPHTHALMOLOGISTS IN THE GENERAL WORLD AND THE LIMITED -- THE LIMITED

                    NATURE OF THE DRUGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, PARTICULARLY AS IT RELATES TO

                    GLAUCOMA, WHICH IS ONLY A 24-HOURS AND, YOU KNOW, THAT THE OVERSIGHT

                    SOMEWHAT COMES FROM THE PRACTICE LIKE IT DOES FOR OTHER PROFESSIONS,

                    AND I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT SED TAKES THEIR OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITY VERY

                    SERIOUSLY, AS THEY DO FOR ALL OF THE PROFESSIONS, AND WHATEVER

                    MECHANISM THEY USE, I WOULD HAVE CONFIDENCE IN.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND I THINK THE LAST THING I WANTED

                    TO JUST ASK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I'M WELL-AWARE THAT ONE OF THE, YOU KNOW,

                    ARGUMENTS AND I THINK REASONS THAT YOU'VE WORKED ON THIS BILL FOR MANY

                    YEAR IS -- IS ACCESS AND THAT, PERHAPS, THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, PLACES IN

                    THIS STATE THAT WOULD BENEFIT FROM OPTOMETRISTS HAVING THIS ABILITY,

                    BECAUSE MAYBE THERE'S NOT A TON OF OPHTHALMOLOGISTS IN -- IN THOSE

                    AREAS AND, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE ARE ANY NUMBER

                    OF -- OF HEALTH ISSUES THAT CAN ORIGINATE WITH THE EYE AND, YOU KNOW,

                    SPREAD -- SPREAD ELSEWHERE AND CAUSE OTHER HEALTH CONCERNS.  IS THERE

                    ANY REQUIREMENTS HERE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THE DURATION OF THAT TYPE

                    TREATMENT FOR AN OPTOMETRIST TO -- TO, YOU KNOW, REFER IN THE FUTURE TO

                    AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST OR, YOU KNOW, TREAT FOR SOME LIMITED AMOUNT OF

                    TIME, OR IS IT KIND OF OPEN-ENDED IN THAT REGARD?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY THAT, YOU

                    KNOW, EVERYWHERE IN THIS STATE THIS BILL IS GOING TO HAVE A BENEFICIAL

                    IMPACT FOR -- FOR CLIENTS AND FOR PATIENTS.  AND THE REASON THAT IS IS

                    BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OPHTHALMOLOGISTS DON'T TYPICALLY WORK ON THE

                    WEEKENDS AND, YOU KNOW, IF AN OPTOMETRIST SAW, FOR EXAMPLE,

                                         238



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SOMEONE THAT HAD GLAUCOMA, WHICH YOU CAN GO BLIND FOR -- GO BLIND

                    FROM, THEY WOULD HAVE AN ABILITY ON A 24-HOUR BASIS TO -- TO HELP THAT

                    PATIENT GET TO AN APPROPRIATE OPHTHALMOLOGIST AND -- AND IT WOULD

                    FACILITATE PERHAPS A MUCH BETTER OUTCOME FOR THAT PATIENT.  SO, I

                    WOULDN'T SUGGEST THAT IT'S ONLY BECAUSE OF SCARCITY FROM

                    OPHTHALMOLOGISTS.  I WOULD SAY PART OF THE SCARCITY IS THE LIMITED HOURS

                    OF THE NATURE OF MDS, YOU KNOW, JUST GENERALLY.  BECAUSE IF SOMEONE

                    WITH AN EYE ISSUE - I WAS JUST SPEAKING TO AN OPTOMETRIST A FEW DAYS

                    AGO - SOMEONE WITH AN EYE ISSUE, A SERIOUS EYE ISSUE LIKE WE'RE TALKING

                    ABOUT NEEDS INSTANT OR IMMEDIATE MEDICAL CARE, THE OPTOMETRIST SEEING

                    THAT DOESN'T HAVE AN ABILITY TO DO ANYTHING BUT SEND THEM TO AN

                    EMERGENCY ROOM.  AND THOSE EMERGENCY ROOM DOCTORS DON'T REALLY

                    KNOW ABOUT MUCH ABOUT THE EYE.  SO, IT'S A REAL PROBLEM NOW AND

                    OUTCOMES ARE IN JEOPARDY.  THIS WILL BENEFIT EVERY SINGLE PATIENT IN --

                    IN NEW YORK STATE BECAUSE OF THE SHORT -- THE SHORT ABILITY THAT, YOU

                    KNOW, WE'RE NOT GIVING THEM AN EXTENSIVE ABILITY.  WE'RE GIVING THEM A

                    VERY LIMITED ABILITY TO SOLVE ISSUES LIKE PINK EYE.  YOU KNOW, DO YOU

                    REALLY WANT TO TELL SOMEONE THAT THEY HAVE TO NOT TOUCH AND ITCH FOR,

                    YOU KNOW, FOR TWO DAYS BEFORE THEY CAN SEE AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST?  I

                    DON'T THINK SO.  I THINK THIS IS MUCH BETTER.  AND DO WE REALLY WANT TO

                    TELL SOMEONE THAT HAS GLAUCOMA THAT YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF GOING

                    BLIND, GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM AND HOPE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE

                    TO FIND AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST TO COME SEE YOU?  I DON'T THINK SO.

                                 SO, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT VERY

                    LIMITED AMOUNT OF DRUGS, VERY LIMITED; TEN DRUGS, TEN ORAL MEDICATIONS.

                                         239



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND THEY ARE VERY, VERY LIMITED IN WHAT THEY CAN DO IN TERMS OF THE

                    NATURE OF THAT AND THE HOURS THAT THEY CAN PRESCRIBE FOR.  SO, I JUST THINK

                    OVERALL THIS IS GOING TO BE SUCH A POSITIVE OUTCOME FOR EVERYBODY IN

                    NEW YORK STATE REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY LIVE.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  I KNOW MY -- MY TIME IS SHORT, BUT I THANK

                    MS. PAULIN FOR HER TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.  AS I SAID,

                    HAVING HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE ON THE HIGHER EDUCATION

                    COMMITTEE, I THINK BEFORE I GOT HERE AND BEFORE I SERVED ON THAT

                    COMMITTEE, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT THAT COMMITTEE WAS ALL GOING -- BE

                    ALL ABOUT COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, AND THEN I FOUND OUT WE DEALT QUITE

                    A LOT WITH LICENSED PROFESSIONS.  AND I STARTED TO LEARN ABOUT ALL THESE

                    SCOPE OF PRACTICE ISSUES AND MANY OF YOU, YOU KNOW, WE GET VISITED

                    DURING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.  I KNOW LIKE ONE GROUP GIVES OUT THIS

                    WHEEL THAT SHOWS ALL THE DIFFERENT TRAINING THE DIFFERENT MEDICAL

                    PROFESSIONALS GO THROUGH.  SO, I THINK THAT IS PARAMOUNT HERE IS MAKING

                    SURE THE TRAINING IS THERE WHEN SOMEBODY IS PRESCRIBING ORAL

                    MEDICATIONS, AND THAT IS MY CONCERN WITH THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION

                    TODAY.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. MAGNARELLI.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         240



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 540 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR -- ON RULES REPORT NO. 153.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL

                    CALL.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED

                    TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY

                    VOTE.  I'VE NEVER PARTICULARLY LIKED THE BILL.  I HAVE FELT THAT THE CLAIM OF

                    SUFFICIENT TRAINING FOR MEDICATIONS THAT ARE SYSTEMIC - ONCE YOU INGEST

                    SOMETHING IT'S NO LONGER TOPICAL - THAT THERE ARE INTERACTIONS THAT COULD

                    OCCUR, THAT AN OPTOMETRIST IS NOT THE PERSON WHO SHOULD GIVE SOMEBODY

                    ANY ONE OF THESE MEDICATIONS.  I UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE OF ACCESS AND I'M

                    SENSITIVE TO THAT, BUT I DO THINK THAT IF SOMEBODY IS GOING TO HAVE

                    SOMETHING THAT COULD INTERACT WITH MEDICATIONS THAT THEY ARE ALREADY

                    TAKING, AN OPTOMETRIST IS NOT THE PERSON WHO IS BEST SITUATED TO MAKE

                    THOSE DETERMINATIONS.  AND SO, I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. MONTESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I JUST

                    WANT TO ECHO THE COMMENTS OF MY COLLEAGUES AND OUR COLLEAGUE FROM

                    MANHATTAN.  WHILE I UNDERSTAND THE -- THE WORK THAT'S DONE BY

                                         241



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    OPTOMETRISTS, ESPECIALLY IN TODAY'S TIME AND THEIR EDUCATION HAS

                    CHANGED A LITTLE BIT, THEY STILL DON'T HAVE THAT TRAINING IN PHARMACOLOGY

                    AND IN MEDICINE.  AND THE POSITION FOR MANY OF THE OPHTHALMOLOGISTS

                    IS, IS THAT IF SOMEONE IS GOING TO AN OPTOMETRIST AND HAS CERTAIN EYE

                    DISEASES AND CONDITIONS THAT REQUIRE THE -- THE PRESCRIBING OF THESE

                    TYPES OF ORAL MEDICATIONS THAT THEY WANT TO GIVE, IT'S INDICATIVE OF

                    SERIOUS PROBLEMS THAT AN OPTOMETRIST SHOULDN'T BE TREATING TO BEGIN

                    WITH; THEY SHOULD BE TREATED BY AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST.  SO, FOR THAT

                    REASON I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MONTESANO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE -- ONE OF THE -- ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT I

                    DID NOT HEAR ANY DISCUSSION OF DURING THIS DEBATE IS THE FACT THAT ARE 15

                    COUNTIES, AS I UNDERSTAND, THAT DO NOT HAVE OPHTHALMOLOGISTS OR

                    OPHTHALMOLOGY SERVICES AVAILABLE TO THEIR RESIDENTS.  SO, I THINK THIS

                    BILL IS A REASONABLE COMPROMISE.  I KNOW WHEN I TALKED TO MY OWN

                    OPHTHALMOLOGIST, HE GETS VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND

                    BELIEVES OPTOMETRISTS DO NOT HAVE THE TRAINING, THE PRACTICE OR TO -- TO

                    EXPAND THEIR SCOPE; HOWEVER, HE HAS AN OPTOMETRIST ON HIS STAFF.  SO, I

                    THINK, YOU KNOW, THOSE OF US WHO LIVE DOWNSTATE IN NEW YORK CITY

                    AND HAVE EASY ACCESS TO AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST WOULD CERTAINLY GO TO AN

                    OPHTHALMOLOGIST BEFORE WE GO TO AN OPTOMETRIST.  BUT IF YOU LIVE IN A

                    RURAL COUNTY WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST AVAILABLE AND

                                         242



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    YOU DO HAVE AN EMERGENCY OR A SITUATION THAT NEEDS IMMEDIATE

                    ATTENTION, AN OPTOMETRIST CAN PROVIDE THAT LINK OR THAT BRIDGE UNTIL YOU

                    CAN GET TO A DOCTOR OR AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST.  SO, I THINK IT'S REASONABLE

                    AND I'M HAPPY TO SUPPORT IT.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. FITZPATRICK IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  WOULD YOU PLEASE

                    RECORD THE FOLLOWING REPUBLICAN MEMBERS IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS

                    LEGISLATION:  MR. BYRNE, MR. DESTEFANO, MS. MILLER, MR. MONTESANO,

                    MR. SMITH, MR. GARBARINO, MR. MCDONOUGH, MR. DIPIETRO AND MS.

                    BYRNES.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

                    COULD PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUES, MS. GLICK, WHO I THINK YOU

                    ALREADY HAVE, MS. MCMAHON AND MRS. GUNTHER IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS

                    BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02277, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 154, PICHARDO, SAYEGH, ARROYO, REYES.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                                         243



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING PAID FAMILY

                    LEAVE BENEFITS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. PICHARDO.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  CERTAINLY, MR. SPEAKER, AND

                    HAPPY TO DO SO.  THIS BILL, WHAT IT DOES, IT EXTENDS PAID FAMILY LEAVE

                    BENEFITS TO EMPLOYEES WHO PERFORM CONSTRUCTION, DEMOLITION,

                    RECONSTRUCTION, EXCAVATION, REHABILITATION, REPAIRS, RENOVATIONS,

                    ALTERATIONS OR IMPROVEMENTS FOR MULTIPLE EMPLOYERS PURSUANT TO A

                    PROTECTED -- TO A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT WHO SHALL BE ELIGIBLE

                    FOR FAMILY LEAVE BENEFITS IF THEY'RE EMPLOYED FOR AT LEAST 26 OF THE LAST

                    39 WEEKS BY ANY COVERED EMPLOYER, WHICH IS A SIGNATORY TO A

                    COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  DO YOU YIELD, MR.

                    PICHARDO.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  HAPPY TO DO SO, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. PICHARDO.  AS I

                    UNDERSTAND THIS LANGUAGE, A -- AN EMPLOYEE THAT MIGHT WORK FOR

                    MULTIPLE DIFFERENT COMPANIES --

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  SURE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  -- CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES MIGHT

                                         244



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    WORK FOR ONE FOR TWO WEEKS AND ANOTHER ONE FOR ANOTHER THREE OR FOUR

                    WEEKS AND GO BACK AND FORTH DEPENDING ON WHERE THE CONSTRUCTION

                    WORK IS, AND YOUR CONCERN, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IS THEY MIGHT BE WORKING

                    CONTINUOUSLY FOR 26 WEEKS, WHICH IF THEY WERE WORKING FOR A SINGLE

                    EMPLOYER WOULD MAKE THEM ELIGIBLE FOR PAID FAMILY LEAVE, BUT

                    BECAUSE OF WORKING FOR MULTIPLE EMPLOYERS, THEY NEVER GET TO THAT

                    THRESHOLD; IS THAT REALLY THE THRUST OF THIS BILL?

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  YEAH, PRETTY MUCH.  AND, AGAIN, IT

                    -- IT DEALS WITH THE -- THE IDEA OF CONSECUTIVE, RIGHT, BECAUSE ESPECIALLY

                    IN THE CONTEXT THAT WE SEE OURSELVES TODAY WITH COVID-19, STAY AT

                    HOME ORDERS, EXCUSE ME, HALTING CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS NOT ONLY HERE IN

                    NEW YORK STATE, BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE

                    DIFFICULT FOR FOLKS WITHIN THIS INDUSTRY TO ACCESS THESE TYPE OF BENEFITS.

                    SO, CREATING THIS CHANGE IN THE LAW, ONE, IT HELPS THESE FAMILIES STAY

                    AFLOAT, ESPECIALLY IF THEY -- THE HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD OR WHOEVER WORKS

                    WITHIN THIS INDUSTRY, BUT ALSO MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO DESERVE TO

                    HAVE THIS BENEFIT ACTUALLY HAVE ACCESS TO THIS BENEFIT AND KIND OF

                    REMOVE A KIND OF A NUANCE OR A TECHNICALITY IN THE -- IN THE CURRENT LAW.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW UNDER CURRENT LAW, THE PAID

                    FAMILY LEAVE PROGRAM CAN, AT THE OPTION OF THE EMPLOYER, BE PAID

                    EITHER BY THE EMPLOYER AS AN ADDITIONAL BENEFIT OR THE COST OF THE

                    INSURANCE POLICY CAN BE CHARGED BACK TO THE EMPLOYEE, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  WELL, RIGHT NOW THERE'S REALLY --

                    HOW WE DEALT WITH PAID FAMILY LEAVE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, WE

                    DID IT THROUGH A SMALL PAYROLL DEDUCTION, AS YOU MENTIONED, THROUGH AN

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    EMPLOYEE, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S NOT AN ADDED BURDEN TO

                    EMPLOYERS, BUT, MORE IMPORTANTLY, GIVING FOLKS A FLEXIBILITY TO BE ABLE

                    TO PAY INTO THIS PROGRAM SO IT DOESN'T COST PEOPLE MORE MONEY THAN IS

                    NECESSARY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO WITH THAT IN MIND, IN THE

                    BACKGROUND, THE QUESTION I HAD REALLY RELATES TO THE PRACTICALITY OF THIS.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  EMPLOYERS CAN PURCHASE THIS

                    INSURANCE COVERAGE THROUGH DIFFERENT OPTIONS, RIGHT, YOU CAN GET PAID

                    FAMILY LEAVE THROUGH DIFFERENT COMPANIES.  AND THOSE COMPANIES CAN

                    BE ENTIRELY SEPARATE AND DISTINCT FROM EACH OTHER.  THE EMPLOYERS CAN

                    BE ENTIRELY SEPARATE AND DISTINCT FROM EACH OTHER.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  SURE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO IF YOU HAVE AN EMPLOYEE WHO,

                    FOR SIX MONTHS, HAS WORKED FOR EIGHT DIFFERENT EMPLOYERS THAT MAY

                    HAVE FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT INSURANCE COMPANIES, HOW DO THEY ALLOCATE

                    THE BENEFITS AMONG ALL THE COMPANIES?  IS THERE ANY EXISTING

                    MECHANISM TO TRACK THAT EMPLOYMENT BETWEEN MULTIPLE EMPLOYERS OR

                    TO ALLOCATE THE COST BETWEEN MULTIPLE -- POTENTIALLY MULTIPLE INSURERS?

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  SURE.  SO, IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH

                    THAT SPECIFIC ISSUE, THE BILL SPEAKS TO THE IDEA OF THE COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING AGREEMENT THAT IS THESE EMPLOYERS AND EMPLOYEES BUY INTO

                    AND NEGOTIATE.  SO, AGAIN, IT'S SUBJECT TO THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

                    AGREEMENT BETWEEN THESE TWO PARTIES IN ORDER TO FIGURE OUT BASICALLY

                    WHO IS - I DON'T WANT TO SAY HOLDING THE BAG, BUT BASICALLY HOW THE

                                         246



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    STATE OR THE EMPLOYERS SORT OF CARVE THIS OR DOLE THIS OUT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, YOU -- YOU ENVISION, THOUGH,

                    THAT YOU COULD HAVE MULTIPLE DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

                    AGREEMENTS?

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  WELL, THERE'S -- LET'S SAY A LABOR

                    UNION, FOR EXAMPLE, MAY HAVE THE SAME BARGAINING AGREEMENT ACROSS

                    DIFFERENT COMPANIES AND DIFFERENT WORK SITES, RIGHT, SO, FOR EXAMPLE.

                    AND LET'S SAY AN EMPLOYEE OR A CONSTRUCTION WORKER IS WORKING ON JOB

                    SITE A FOR, LET'S SAY FOR MYSELF, OR JOB SITE B FOR YOURSELF, LET'S SAY, FOR

                    EXAMPLE AND, YOU KNOW, WE ARE STILL CONTRACTED OR WORKING WITH THESE

                    LABOR UNIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, AND IT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THAT.  AGAIN, IT'S

                    -- IT'S -- WE'RE TRYING TO -- THE IDEA OF THIS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DEAL

                    WITH THE ISSUE OF CONSECUTIVE WORK OR CONSECUTIVE WEEKS, ESPECIALLY

                    NOW BECAUSE IT'S SO FLUID, WE'RE NOT SORT OF -- IT'S NOT A STABLE SITUATION,

                    PER SE, MR. GOODELL, AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS SOLVE THIS ISSUE OF

                    CONSECUTIVE WORK AND FOLKS WHO GENUINELY HAVE WORKED THESE WEEKS

                    CAN ACTUALLY ACCESS THESE BENEFITS THAT THEY'RE ENTITLED TO, BUT, MORE

                    IMPORTANTLY, IT HELPS THEM GET THROUGH A VERY DIFFICULT TIME THAT ALL OF

                    US, AS NEW YORKERS, ARE -- ARE GOING THROUGH, AS WELL AS AMERICANS

                    ACROSS THIS NATION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  ONE OTHER QUESTION I THINK.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  SURE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THIS LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL ONLY

                    APPLIES TO CONSTRUCTION WORKERS WHO ARE COVERED BY COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING AGREEMENT, CORRECT?

                                         247



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  THAT'S CORRECT, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO -- WHY?  I MEANT THAT IN MY FIRST

                    QUESTION, I IMPROPERLY PHRASED MY LAST QUESTION.  WHY DOES THIS ONLY

                    APPLY TO COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS?

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  SO, THIS IS SORT OF THE -- THE -- I

                    GUESS THE MOST STRAIGHTFORWARD WAY THAT WE CAN SORT OF FIGURE THIS OUT.

                    I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO HAVE CONVERSATION WITH EITHER -- WITH YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL, OR ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES, TO TRY IF WE CAN KIND OF INCREASE THIS

                    BENEFIT FOR OTHER INDIVIDUALS, BUT THIS IS SORT OF THE WAY THAT WE WERE

                    ABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM IN THE HERE AND NOW, ESPECIALLY, AGAIN,

                    IN THE CONTEXT THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN THE MIDDLE OF A GLOBAL

                    PANDEMIC.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    PICHARDO.  I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  MY PLEASURE, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I --I UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION THAT IS

                    TRYING TO BE ADDRESSED BY THIS LEGISLATION, AND I SUPPORT THE CONCEPT

                    BECAUSE, PRESUMABLY, IF AN EMPLOYEE IS WORKING FOR A PARTICULAR

                    COMPANY ON DAY ONE, THAT COMPANY IS MAKING THE INSURANCE PAYMENT

                    FOR THAT EMPLOYEE.  SO, IN THEORY, THE EMPLOYEES, IF IT'S FUNDED THROUGH

                    A PAYROLL DEDUCTION PLAN, ARE PAYING FOR THIS BENEFIT.  AND IF THEY WORK

                    THAT TIME PERIOD, THEY OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO GET THAT BENEFIT.

                                 THE CHALLENGE THAT I WRESTLE WITH, AND I APPRECIATE MY

                                         248



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    COLLEAGUE'S COMMENTS, IS HOW DO WE ACTUALLY MAKE IT WORK?  BECAUSE

                    THERE COULD BE MULTIPLE INSURANCE COMPANIES, MULTIPLE COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING AGREEMENTS, AND WE DON'T HAVE A CENTRAL CLEARINGHOUSE THAT

                    I'M AWARE OF THAT WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE IT WORK.  AND THAT'S THE BIGGEST

                    CHALLENGE I SEE WITH THIS BILL.

                                 I NOTE THAT SOME OF THE CONTRACTOR'S ASSOCIATIONS,

                    NFIB, UNSHACKLE UPSTATE, THE BUSINESS COUNCIL HAVE OPPOSED IT, BUT

                    I DON'T REALLY SEE THIS AS IMPOSING A NEW COST ON BUSINESS, BECAUSE THAT

                    PAYROLL OPTION IS ALWAYS THERE AND HAS BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING.  I'M

                    JUST NOT SURE HOW THIS WILL WORK.  AND -- BUT I JUST DON'T KNOW.  SO, I

                    APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS FROM MY COLLEAGUES AND IF THIS BECOMES LAW,

                    I HOPE WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT WORK.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 154.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    THAT IS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THIS WILL BE THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE GENERALLY IN THE MINORITY, AND IF YOU WISH TO

                    VOTE FOR THIS BILL, PLEASE CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU VERY

                    MUCH.

                                         249



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE DOING A PARTY VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  SHOULD COLLEAGUES DECIDE NOT TO SUPPORT THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT OUR OFFICE AND WE WILL

                    MAKE SURE THEY ARE RECORDED AS SUCH.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  YOU KNOW, I WAS

                    SO TAKEN BY THE EXPLANATION OF MY COLLEAGUE, I SUGGESTED THAT MY

                    CAUCUS WAS SUPPORTING THIS, BUT IN THE PAST WE HAD 36 NO'S, AND SO I

                    SUSPECT THAT THE MAJORITY OF MY CAUCUS WILL ACTUALLY BE VOTING NO ON

                    THIS BILL.  BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VOTE YES, PLEASE CONTACT THE MINORITY

                    OFFICE, AND MY APOLOGIES TO ALL OF OUR STAFF WHO MAY BE GETTING CALLS

                    FROM EVERYONE.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 BUT IF YOU WANT TO VOTE YES, PLEASE CONTACT THE

                    MINORITY OFFICE, OTHERWISE WE WILL CAST YOUR VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  IN AN EFFORT TO

                    MOVE THIS FORWARD, PLEASE RECORD THE FOLLOW REPUBLICAN MEMBERS IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE:  MR. MILLER, MR. SCHMITT, MR. MORINELLO, MR.

                                         250



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    DESTEFANO, MR. REILLY AND MR. BRABENEC.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04962-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 159, O'DONNELL, BRONSON, DE LA ROSA, CRUZ, FERNANDEZ,

                    D. ROSENTHAL, JACOBSON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO REQUIRING INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR PRE-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS

                    AND POST-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS TO PREVENT HIV INFECTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. O'DONNELL.

                                 MR. O'DONNELL:  GOOD EVENING EVERYONE, AND

                    WELCOME.  THIS BILL WOULD PROVIDE THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT

                    PROVIDE A PRESCRIPTION PLAN ARE REQUIRED TO COVER THE COST OF PEP AND

                    PREP, WHICH ARE HIV PREVENTION DRUGS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. O'DONNELL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. O'DONNELL:  WITH PLEASURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. O'DONNELL

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. O'DONNELL.  DO

                                         251



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    YOU HAVE A COST ESTIMATE FOR WHAT THIS MAY LIKELY COST?

                                 MR. O'DONNELL:  I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT

                    THE CURRENT COST OF THESE PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS ARE.  AS I'M SURE

                    YOU'RE WELL-AWARE, ONCE THEY BE COME AVAILABLE AS GENERICS, THEY GO

                    SEVERELY DOWN.  THERE'S ONLY ONE THING I KNOW FOR CERTAIN, IT'S MUCH

                    LESS EXPENSIVE TO GIVE SOMEONE PEP OR PREP THEN TO TREAT SOMEONE

                    WITH AIDS FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND I APPRECIATE THAT, BECAUSE THE

                    ONLY CONCERN THAT I HAVE HEARD IS THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE

                    CONCERNED THAT AS WE CONTINUALLY ADD ADDITIONAL MANDATES, IT'S DRIVING

                    UP THE COST OF INSURANCE AND, AS YOU KNOW, THAT'S A CONCERN FOR ALL OF

                    US.  DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHAT IMPACT THIS MIGHT HAVE AT ALL?

                                 MR. O'DONNELL:  WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO CORRECT

                    YOUR LANGUAGE.  THIS IS NOT A MANDATE.  THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT

                    CLEARLY MAKES IT THAT THIS MUST BE THE CASE IN ARTICLE 62 OF THE

                    INSURANCE LAW PROHIBITS DISCRIMINATION BASED ON THE NATURE OF THE

                    ILLNESS.  AND SO, IT'S NOT A MANDATE.  IT EXISTS IN FEDERAL AND STATE LAW,

                    WE JUST DON'T WANT INSURANCE COMPANIES TO CHOOSE TO TRY TO GET OUT OF

                    THAT COST.  YOU KNOW, MS. GLICK AND I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR PEOPLE

                    WITH HIV AND AIDS FOR A VERY LONG TIME.  I OWE HER A GREAT DEBT.

                    PEOPLE WITH AIDS AND HIV HAVE BEEN TREATED WITH GREAT DISRESPECT

                    AND GREAT DISDAIN, AND HERE WE ARE FINALLY IN 2020 WHERE WE HAVE A

                    CURE FOR IT, A PREVENTATIVE CURE FOR IT, AND NOW WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO

                    FIGHT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR INSURANCE PROVIDERS DO WHAT THEY'RE

                    SUPPOSED TO DO, WHICH IS HELP PEOPLE SAVE LIVES.

                                         252



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    O'DONNELL.  I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 159.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 AND MR. O'DONNELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. O'DONNELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I WOULD

                    LIKE TO BRIEFLY EXPLAIN MY VOTE TO TAKE THIS TIME TO THANK MY SPEAKER

                    AND MY MAJORITY LEADER AND THE STAFF FOR ALLOWING TO WORK WITH ME ON

                    THIS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE.  PEOPLE WHO ARE LGBT HAVE BEEN

                    DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN OUR COUNTRY FOR A VERY LONG TIME.  WE'VE BEEN

                    TREATED RUDELY AND DISRESPECTFULLY, AND THIS VERY DAY, ANOTHER TRANS

                    WOMAN OF COLOR IS MOST LIKELY TO BE MURDERED.  IN THE END, WE FOUGHT

                    HARD TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE AND WE CANNOT STOP THE FIGHT NOW.  WE

                    HAVE A PATH AND A MECHANISM TO PREVENT THE TRANSMISSION OF HIV.  WE

                    HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES DO RIGHT BY THE PEOPLE OF

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 JUST IMAGINE WHERE WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A

                    PANDEMIC IF THE INSURANCE COMPANY SAID, YEAH, WE HAVE A CURE FOR

                    COVID, BUT I DON'T THINK I SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.  THAT'S NOT JUST

                    THE WAY IT IS, THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE AND I THINK IT'S TIME WE

                                         253



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    END THAT KIND OF HOSTILE TREATMENT OF ALL OF US REGARDING OUR HEALTH

                    CARE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. O'DONNELL IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07463-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 170, HUNTER, SAYEGH, DARLING, D'URSO, CRUZ, TAYLOR,

                    GOTTFRIED, SIMON, EPSTEIN, NIOU, JEAN-PIERRE, BLAKE, BARRON, JAFFEE,

                    SEAWRIGHT, GLICK, FRONTUS, WEPRIN, BRONSON, MAGNARELLI, ZEBROWSKI,

                    STECK, FAHY, PERRY, MOSLEY, O'DONNELL, EICHENSTEIN, DICKENS,

                    RODRIGUEZ, WILLIAMS, ARROYO, COLTON, WALCZYK, HYNDMAN, DAVILA,

                    PICHARDO, L. ROSENTHAL, REYES, LAVINE, ORTIZ, QUART, LUPARDO.  AN ACT

                    TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO THE SUSPENSION OF

                    A LICENSE TO DRIVE A MOTOR VEHICLE OR MOTORCYCLE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PALUMBO ON THE

                    BILL.

                                 MR. PALUMBO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL

                    THAT WE ADDRESSED LAST YEAR IN THE CODES COMMITTEE AT A VERY LATE HOUR

                    IN JUNE RAISED SOME VERY, VERY SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS TO NOT ONLY MY

                    CONFERENCE, BUT MANY MEMBERS OF THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE VOTED

                    WITH US, AND THERE WERE SOME REAL CONCERNS THAT -- AND THEN SOME

                    PORTIONS OF IT THAT WE FELT WERE UNNECESSARY.  SO, IT'S BEEN AMENDED

                    AND, UNFORTUNATELY, IT HAS NOT ADDRESSED SOME OF THESE REALLY

                                         254



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS THAT I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT AND BRING TO MY

                    COLLEAGUES' ATTENTION WHEN THEY'RE CONSIDERING A VOTE ON THIS.

                                 WHAT IT INITIALLY DOES IS WITHIN THREE MONTHS IT VACATES

                    EVERY SUSPENSION FOR -- ON DRIVER'S LICENSES FOR ANYONE WHOSE EVER HAD

                    A SUSPENSION FOR FAILING TO APPEAR IN COURT OR FAILING TO PAY A FINE AND,

                    REALLY, WAS THE GIST OF OUR DEBATE.  AND I THINK WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO

                    HIGHLIGHT NOW IS THAT I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS AN OBJECTION TO CREATING

                    A PAYMENT PLAN POLICY FOR THOSE FOLKS WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY THEIR

                    FINE, BECAUSE IT SEEMS COUNTERINTUITIVE TO TAKE THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE

                    WHEN THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO WORK AND SUSPENDED THEM -- THEIR

                    LICENSE IF THEY CAN'T PAY A FINE, AND THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF SCHEDULING

                    FINES AND MANDATORY FINES IN OUR VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW; HOWEVER, IT

                    DOESN'T COST ANYTHING TO COME TO COURT.  AND ALTHOUGH IT'S AN

                    INCONVENIENCE, IF YOU DON'T SHOW UP IN COURT, THE SANCTION OF LOSING

                    YOUR LICENSE IS A VERY EFFECTIVE TOOL TO GET THOSE FINES PAID.  FOR

                    EXAMPLE, WE SUSPEND DRIVER'S LICENSES WHEN SOMEONE FAILS TO PAY CHILD

                    SUPPORT.  THAT'S WHAT THE LAW IS IN NEW YORK, AND IT'S A SMART THING.

                    IT'S AN INCENTIVE THAT YOU WILL REALLY HAVE A TOUGH TIME IN LIFE IF YOU

                    DON'T MEET YOUR OBLIGATIONS.

                                 AND JUST BY WAY OF EXAMPLE, ALL OF THOSE FINES AND

                    SUSPENSIONS - NOT ONLY JUST THE FINES, BUT THE -- THERE'S A SUSPENSION

                    TERMINATION FEE THAT'S COLLECTED.  IN A 2010 STATE COMPTROLLER'S REPORT

                    THAT IN 2009, 49 PERCENT OF JUSTICE COURT REVENUES AROUND THE STATE,

                    WORTH NEARLY $120 MILLION WAS DIRECTED TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND WAS

                    A RESULT OF THOSE FINES AND SUSPENSIONS THAT WERE RECEIVED STATEWIDE.

                                         255



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SO, NOT ONLY ARE WE JUST GIVING A BLANK VACATUR OF ALL OF THESE

                    CONVICTIONS AND SUSPENSIONS AND FINES, BUT WE'RE ALSO NOW DEPRIVING A

                    TON OF MONEY TO OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.  SO, THAT'S REALLY SOMETHING

                    THAT I THINK IS SOMEWHAT ILL-ADVISED.

                                 WE ALSO HAVE A PROVISION IN THIS BILL ALLOWING COURTS,

                    AT THEIR OWN DISCRETION, TO WAIVE ANYTHING RELATIVE TO A VEHICLE AND

                    TRAFFIC OFFENSE, WHICH ALSO INCLUDES DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED.  SO, IF

                    SOMEONE IS INCARCERATED AND OBVIOUSLY HAS SEVERAL -- HAS A TERRIBLE

                    DRIVING HISTORY AND IS IN AND OUT OF JAIL FOR MANY YEARS REGARDING

                    DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED CONVICTIONS, THEY GET OUT OF JAIL, THEY GET

                    ANOTHER DWI, INJURIES, WHATEVER IT MAY BE, THERE ARE MANDATORY FINES,

                    THE COURT CAN WAIVE THOSE INSTEAD OF JUST IMPLEMENTING A -- AN

                    INSTALLMENT PLAN AND A PAYMENT PLAN.

                                 SO, NOW THAT LEADS US TO OTHER ASPECTS JUST GENERALLY

                    OF THIS BILL THAT COMPLETELY PROHIBITS A COURT FROM IMPOSING ANY FUTURE

                    SUSPENSIONS AS A RESULT OF FAILING TO APPEAR AND FAILING TO PAY A FINE.

                    NOW, AGAIN, THE LAUDABLE INTENT IS TO CREATE A PAYMENT PLAN SO THOSE

                    FOLKS, AND I THINK IT'S $10 A MONTH.  SO, FOR EXAMPLE, ON A DWI, IF THE

                    FINE SCHEDULE IS USUALLY BETWEEN SAY $500 AND $1,500, SO SOMEONE

                    WHO WILL HAVE $1,000 FINE, THEY'LL HAVE 100 MONTHS TO PAY IT OFF, PRETTY

                    REASONABLE, AND STILL KEEP THEIR LICENSE.

                                 BUT, AGAIN, THIS FAILURE TO APPEAR IN COURT IS THE REAL

                    WRINKLE, AND LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY.  IF I'M DRIVING AND I'M TEARING

                    UP THE ROADS AND I GET A SPEEDING TICKET, AND I THROW THE SPEEDING

                    TICKET OUT THE WINDOW.  THIS LEGISLATURE, ABOUT 35 YEARS AGO, CREATED

                                         256



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE AGGRAVATED UNLICENSED OPERATION STATUTE.  IF YOU THROW THE

                    SPEEDING TICKET OUT THE WINDOW, YOU FAIL TO APPEAR, YOU GET A

                    SUSPENSION ON YOUR LICENSE.  IF YOU GET THREE SUSPENSIONS ON THREE

                    SEPARATE DAYS FOR JUST THROWING THE TICKETS OUT THE WINDOW, IT ACTUALLY

                    BECOME A MISDEMEANOR.  IF YOU GET TEN, IT BECOMES A CLASS E FELONY

                    UNDER THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, THE AGGRAVATED UNLICENSED

                    OPERATION STATUTE.  THAT NO LONGER EXISTS.  WE HAVE JUST REPEALED, BY

                    PASSING THIS AND MAKING IT BECOME LAW, THE AGGRAVATED UNLICENSED

                    OPERATION STATUE.  IT'S GONE.  NOW, YOU COULD HAVE 50, QUOTE, "TICKETS"

                    AND "DEFAULT JUDGMENTS", WHICH YOU CAN STILL GET UNDER THIS, IT'S CIVIL IN

                    NATURE ONLY.  YOU CANNOT IMPOSE A JAIL SENTENCE ACCORDING TO THIS BILL

                    AND, ON MY 110TH -- AND, BY THE WAY, WHEN I WAS A PROSECUTOR, I HAD

                    SOME OF THESE FELONY 511S WHERE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE ON 50, 60 DAYS

                    TICKETS THAT THEY WOULD JUST THROW OUT THE WINDOW AND FORGET ABOUT IT

                    AND, EVENTUALLY, GET ARRESTED AND WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT AT THAT

                    POINT.

                                 SO, AGAIN, PAYMENT PLAN IS LAUDABLE AND APPROPRIATE,

                    BUT ON MY 45TH SPEEDING TICKET, ACCIDENTS, WHATEVER I'VE DONE, DWI

                    CONVICTIONS, HOWEVER TERRIBLE MY DRIVING RECORD IS, YOU STILL CAN'T

                    SUSPEND MY DRIVER'S LICENSE, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO FOR FAILING

                    TO APPEAR, WHICH IS THROWING THE TICKET OUT THE WINDOW.  SO, MY

                    COLLEAGUES, I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT A PORTION OF IT IS

                    CERTAINLY REASONABLE, AND I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE THAT THAT IS

                    FAIRNESS, THAT THE STATISTICS HAVE SHOWN THAT PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY WHO ARE

                    ECONOMICALLY OR FINANCIALLY DISADVANTAGED SUFFER GREATLY IN THE

                                         257



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, AND A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH FINES.  AND IF

                    THEY CAN'T PAY A FINE AND THEY LOSE THEIR LICENSE AS A RESULT, THEY

                    OBVIOUSLY NOW CAN'T LEGALLY DRIVE TO WORK.  SO, IT'S A COMPOUNDING,

                    TERRIBLE PROBLEM.  SO, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE INSENSITIVE TO,

                    BUT THIS BILL GOES FAR BEYOND THE REASONABLENESS STANDARD AND

                    APPROPRIATENESS FOR OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.  THIS IS GOING TO

                    CREATE A DISASTER ON OUR ROADS.

                                 THERE ARE OTHER PROVISIONS THAT ALSO REQUIRE THE COURTS

                    TO NOTIFY - AND OTHER REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE THINGS - BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY

                    THE POINT.  THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE FACT THAT NO ONE, IT DOESN'T COST ANY

                    MONEY TO COME TO COURT.  NO ONE CAN SUFFER ANY SUSPENSION OF THEIR

                    DRIVER'S LICENSE FOR NOT COMING TO COURT, AND IGNORING LAWFUL PROCESS.

                    THAT'S DANGEROUS.  IT'S GOING TO MAKE OUR ROADS MORE DANGEROUS AND I

                    URGE A NO VOTE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. HUNTER.

                                 MS. HUNTER:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  I WOULD LIKE TO

                    SPEAK ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. HUNTER:  I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE A COUPLE

                    COMMENTS ON THIS BILL JUST TO CORRECT SOME POINTS FOR -- FOR ACCURACY.

                    THE COURTS ACTUALLY DO STILL HAVE MECHANISMS BY WAY THAT THEY CAN

                    REPRIMAND SOMEONE FOR NOT APPEARING, AND THERE ARE POINTS SYSTEM FOR

                    DANGEROUSNESS.  AND SO, WHILE SOMEONE COULD BE SPEEDING AND GETTING

                    MULTIPLE TICKETS, THERE ACTUALLY ARE A POINT SYSTEM THAT A LICENSE CAN BE

                    SUSPENDED IF YOU GET OVER THE 12 POINTS.  AND THAT IS STILL IN PLACE AND

                                         258



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THAT HAS NOT GONE AWAY.

                                 AND WE SHOULD JUST HAVE A CONVERSATION OR SHOULD JUST

                    -- THE CONVERSATION SHOULD BE ABOUT THIS SUSPENSION IS REALLY A

                    COLLECTION METHOD AND IT CREATES A SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT

                    HAVE MEANS ARE BEING DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED FOR NOT HAVING

                    MONEY TO PAY A FINE.  THIS DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH SOMEONE'S

                    AGGRESSIVE DRIVING.  IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH GETTING TO THE

                    POINTS, WHICH A JUDGE AND THE DMV STILL CAN AWARD.  THIS HAS

                    SOMETHING TO DO WITH, I CAN'T PAY $1,200 IN FINES, I'M HAVING MY

                    LICENSE TAKEN AWAY.  IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL

                    INFRACTION.

                                 ONE OF THE TOWNS THAT I REPRESENT, THE NUMBER ONE

                    ISSUE THEY TALK ABOUT AT THEIR BOARD MEETING EVERY SINGLE MONTH IS

                    RELATIVE TO THE OUTSTANDING REVENUES.  AND SO, THERE'S A CITING OF $120

                    MILLION THAT GOES TO MUNICIPALITIES; THAT ACTUALLY IS THE AMOUNT OF

                    MONEY THAT HAS BEEN RECOVERED, NOT THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IS

                    DUE MUNICIPALITIES.  AND SO, AS WE'RE HAVING CONVERSATIONS RELATIVE TO,

                    YOU KNOW, EQUITY AND FAIRNESS, WE SHOULD JUST MAKE SURE THAT, YOU

                    KNOW, FOLKS KNOW THEN SOMEONE NOT PAYING A BILL AND HAVING THEIR

                    DRIVER'S LICENSE SUSPENDED IS NOT WHAT WE NEED TO BE DOING, ESPECIALLY

                    IN TIMES OF COVID.  WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T GET TO THE DOCTOR, THEY

                    CAN'T GET TO THE HOSPITAL, THEY CAN'T GET TO THEIR JOB IF THEY HAVE A JOB AT

                    THIS POINT.

                                 AND SO, THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING

                    ABOUT FOR MULTIPLE YEARS.  THIS SHOULD NOT BE ANYTHING MORE THAN

                                         259



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SOMEONE BEING ABLE TO BE IN A POSITION TO HAVE A PAYMENT PLAN MOVING

                    FORWARD, AND HAVING YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE SUSPENDED FOR NOT PAYING A

                    BILL, THAT IS THE COMMENT.  THAT IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, THE

                    SUSPENSION COLLECTION METHOD FOR DRIVER'S LICENSE.  IT IS NOT ABOUT

                    DANGEROUSNESS.  A JUDGE WILL STILL HAVE THE ABILITY, DMV STILL HAS THE

                    ABILITY TO AWARD POINTS AND IF PEOPLE DON'T APPEAR, THE -- THE COLLECTION

                    METHOD, PEOPLE CAN GO INTO GARNISHMENT AND GET COLLECTION.  SO, I JUST

                    WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE, MR. SPEAKER, SO THAT ALL OF OUR COLLEAGUES

                    HAVE A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 170.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY IN THE NEGATIVE.  IF THERE'S A REPUBLICAN

                    MEMBER WHO WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, PLEASE CONTACT THE

                    MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                                         260



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    SPEAKER.  THIS WILL BE A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  COLLEAGUES WHO

                    DESIRE NOT TO VOTE WITH THE PARTY ON THIS ONE, YOU CAN CALL OUR OFFICE

                    AND WE WILL BE HAPPY TO RECORD YOU AS A NEGATIVE VOTE.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. CRUZ TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE TO

                    THANK THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL FOR THIS INITIATIVE.  THE WAY THE CURRENT

                    SYSTEM IS SET UP RIGHT NOW, IT PENALIZES SOMEONE FOR SIMPLY BEING

                    POOR, BECAUSE I AGREE WITH HER, THIS IS A COLLECTION SYSTEM AND WHAT

                    WE'RE DOING IS MAKING SURE THAT IF YOU NEED TO DRIVE TO SCHOOL, IF YOU

                    NEED TO DRIVE TO WORK, IF YOU NEED TO DRIVE TO COURT EVEN TO SHOW UP TO

                    BE ABLE TO PAY THE FINE, THAT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO

                    THIS.

                                 YOU KNOW, IN -- IN CALIFORNIA, ACTUALLY, IF WE'RE GOING

                    TO TALK ABOUT THE ABILITY TO COLLECT THIS DEBT, WHEN A SIMILAR LAW WAS

                    PUT INTO PLACE, THEY SAW AN ALMOST TEN PERCENT INCREASE IN THE ABILITY OF

                    THE STATE TO COLLECT THE FINES THAT WERE OWED.  SO, WE WANT -- WHAT WE

                    WANT TO DO IS ACTUALLY MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO GET TO WORK, MAKE IT

                    EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE THEIR LIVES AND THE WAY THAT IT'S SET UP NOW, ALL

                    WE'RE DOING IS CONTINUING IN A WAY THAT CRIMINALIZES AND PENALIZES

                    PEOPLE FOR SIMPLY BEING POOR.

                                 AND SO, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I WANTED

                    TO THANK THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ IN THE

                                         261



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. WALCZYK.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    OFFERING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I'M GOING OUTSIDE OF

                    THE PARTY VOTE A LITTLE BIT HERE AND I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

                    BRINGING THIS BILL FORWARD.  I THINK THIS IS AN EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITY

                    WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT CHECKS AND BALANCES, TO LOOK AT WHAT THE

                    COURTS ACTUALLY DO IN PRACTICALITY.  AND IF YOU'RE AN ADVOCATE FOR THE

                    TAXPAYERS, THINK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS FOR A MISDEMEANOR CHARGE IN

                    YOUR TOWN COURT TO HAVE A COURT-APPOINTED ATTORNEY, TO HAVE A DISTRICT

                    ATTORNEY THAT THE TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING FOR, AND TO HAVE A JUDGE SITTING

                    ON THE BENCH TO, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE STATISTICS, THEY'RE STAGGERING, TO

                    REDUCE THESE ALMOST ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TIME.  THAT TRIGGERS TO

                    US AS THE LEGISLATURE, HEY, LISTEN TO THE COURTS, LISTEN TO WHAT THEY'RE

                    DOING, LOOK AT WHAT THE PRACTICAL IMPLICATION OF THE LEGISLATION THAT ONE

                    OF MY COLLEAGUES POINTED OUT YEARS AGO PUT IN PLACE.  LISTEN TO THE

                    COURTS AND LET'S DO SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE.

                                 SO, I APPLAUD THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL FOR DOING

                    SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE TO THOSE WHO ARE IN POVERTY, ALLOWS THEM

                    TO PAY OVER TIME SO THAT THEY'RE NOT SPIRALING INTO --  INTO POVERTY AND

                    LOSING THEIR CAR, LOSING THEIR LICENSE, BEING IN A LONG-TERM POSITION

                    WHERE THEY CAN'T PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILY.  AND ALSO LISTENING TO THE

                    COURTS AND ADVOCATING FOR THE TAXPAYERS AT THE SAME TIME.  THIS IS AN

                    EXCELLENT PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND I AM PROUD TO CAST MY VOTE IN FAVOR.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                         262



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  MR.

                    WALCZYK IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I APPRECIATE

                    THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE AND TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR AN

                    EXCELLENT MEASURE.  IN MANY STATES WE SEE THAT THIS IS AN INDUSTRY, THE

                    COLLECTING OF FINES.  IT'S A TAX ON POOR PEOPLE AND A PUNITIVE MEASURE OF

                    REMOVING THEIR ABILITY TO MOVE AROUND THE SOCIETY IS WRONG-HEADED

                    AND SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD NOT PROCEED WITH.  SO, THIS IS A GREAT

                    MEASURE AND ONE THAT'S BASED IN FAIRNESS AND MOVES US AHEAD AS A

                    STATE.  AND THANKS AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.  I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST

                    AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK TO -- IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WANT TO

                    ECHO SOME OF THE HEARTFELT COMMENTS OF SOME WHO HAVE SPOKEN OUT

                    THROUGHOUT THE DAY.  AND I WANT TO SAY I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR THE CARE

                    AND THE CONCERN OF THOSE WHO MAY VOTE AGAINST THIS BILL.  BUT I DO

                    REMEMBER THE YEARS I SPENT AS A PUBLIC DEFENDER, AND I WANT TO SHARE

                    WITH YOU THE CONCERN THAT AN INORDINATE AMOUNT OF VALUABLE COURT TIME,

                    20 TO 25 PERCENT OF EACH DAY WAS SPENT IN DEALING WITH THE CASES OF

                    THOSE WHO DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY THE FINES AND ASSESSMENTS

                    WHICH THEY WERE SENTENCED TO.

                                 SO, I THINK THAT I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS,

                                         263



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AND I WANT TO JUST QUOTE THE PHILOSOPHER ANATOLE FRANCE WHO SAID,

                    "THE LAW, IN ITS MAJESTIC EQUALITY, FORBIDS THE RICH AS WELL AS THE POOR

                    TO SLEEP UNDER BRIDGES, TO BEG IN THE STREETS AND TO STEAL BREAD."  I THINK

                    IT'S ABOUT TIME WE STOPPED PUNISHING THE POOR FOR BEING POOR AND MY

                    VOTE IS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAVINE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THIS BILL HAS TWO COMPONENTS, IF

                    YOU WILL.  ONE TALKS ABOUT AN INSTALLMENT PAYMENT PLAN AND MAKING

                    SPECIAL ARRANGEMENTS TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE FINANCIALLY DISADVANTAGED

                    IN MAKING REASONABLE PAYMENTS.  I SUPPORT THAT COMPONENT AND I THINK

                    THAT'S A GREAT IDEA, BECAUSE WE SHOULD NEVER LOOK AT A PENALTY THAT IN

                    ACTUALITY APPLIES DIFFERENTLY BASED ON YOUR FINANCIAL MEANS.  BUT THAT'S

                    ONLY PART OF THE BILL.  THE OTHER PART OF THE BILL PROVIDES THAT YOU DON'T

                    RISK LOSING YOUR LICENSE EVEN IF YOU DON'T SHOW UP, EVEN IF YOU DON'T

                    ANSWER, EVEN IF YOU DON'T MAKE PAYMENTS UNDER THE INSTALLMENT PLAN.

                    AND I THINK THE PROPER BALANCE IS TO SAY, WE'LL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU ARE

                    A PERSON OF LIMITED MEANS, WE'LL WORK WITH YOU, WE'LL PUT TOGETHER AN

                    INSTALLMENT PLAN, WE'LL WORK IN A COOPERATIVE WAY, BUT IN RETURN, WE

                    EXPECT YOU TO SHOW UP, ANSWER AND MEET YOUR END OF THE BARGAIN.

                                         264



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 AND SO, IF IT WERE JUST ONE HALF ABOUT TALKING ABOUT AN

                    INSTALLMENT PLAN, I'D BE ALL IN.  BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR US,

                    JUST SPEAKING IN MY OWN OPINION, TO SAY YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO SHOW

                    UP, OR ANSWER, OR COMPLY WITH THE INSTALLMENT PLAN; YOU DON'T NEED TO

                    WORRY ABOUT RISKING YOUR LICENSE.  THANK YOU, SIR.  FOR THOSE REASONS,

                    I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WE DO HAVE COLLEAGUES THAT WOULD LIKE TO VOTE NO ON THIS

                    BILL, BUT BEFORE I GIVE YOU THEIR NAMES, I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS

                    OPPORTUNITY TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION.  IT LITERALLY

                    REMOVES ANOTHER BARRIER FOR PEOPLE'S ACCESS TO WORK.  THE MORE PEOPLE

                    WE GET WORKING, THE BETTER OPPORTUNITY WE HAVE TO BEGIN LOWERING THE

                    COST OF GOVERNMENT.

                                 WITH THAT, I DO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE HAVE OUR

                    COLLEAGUES MRS. GUNTHER, MS. BUTTENSCHON, MR. SANTABARBARA, MR.

                    BARNWELL, MR. STERN, MS. GRIFFIN AND MS. -- MR. ENGLEBRIGHT IN THE

                    NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  EXCUSE ME, MR. SPEAKER.  PLEASE

                    RECORD MS. MILLER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS VOTE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                         265



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE'RE

                    GOING TO MOVE FORWARD NOW AND SWITCH TO OUR A-CALENDAR, THE ONE

                    THAT WE ADVANCED EARLIER TODAY, AND WE'RE GOING RIGHT TO PAGE 3 AND

                    START WITH RULES REPORT NO. 220 AND JUST GO STRAIGHT AHEAD, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE A-CALENDAR,

                    PAGE 3, RULES REPORT NO. 220, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00732-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 220, L. ROSENTHAL, SIMON, ABINANTI, WEPRIN, BARRON,

                    EPSTEIN, SEAWRIGHT, GLICK, D'URSO, COLTON, REYES, ORTIZ, GRIFFIN,

                    THIELE, GOTTFRIED, WALLACE, RODRIGUEZ, STECK, FALL, OTIS.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING

                    THE USE OF GLYPHOSATE ON STATE PROPERTY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01436-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 221, EPSTEIN, L. ROSENTHAL, DE LA ROSA, SIMOTAS, TAYLOR,

                    GOTTFRIED, ENGLEBRIGHT, ARROYO, AUBRY, DICKENS, WEPRIN, CRUZ,

                    MOSLEY, D'URSO, ORTIZ, ABBATE, HYNDMAN, BLAKE, RIVERA, ROZIC,

                    STERN, COOK, KIM, CYMBROWITZ, D. ROSENTHAL, FALL, SEAWRIGHT, REYES,

                    RODRIGUEZ, GLICK, FRONTUS, QUART, JEAN-PIERRE, GRIFFIN, HUNTER,

                    FERNANDEZ, RAMOS, RICHARDSON, OTIS, LIFTON, DINOWITZ, CARROLL,

                                         266



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ABINANTI, BARRON, O'DONNELL, SIMON, FAHY, WRIGHT, STECK, VANEL, M.

                    G. MILLER, NIOU, SAYEGH, MAGNARELLI, PICHARDO, DARLING, WALKER,

                    WILLIAMS, PERRY, BUCHWALD, PAULIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL

                    SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO REPORTING OF YOUTH PLACED IN FOSTER CARE

                    SETTINGS AND RECRUITMENT OF FOSTER PARENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO -- EXCUSE ME.


                    ASSEMBLY NO. A02644, RULES REPORT NO. 222, LAVINE, JACOBSON.  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING PRIVATE

                    INDIVIDUALS OR ENTITIES TO PAY FOR THE ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES

                    ASSOCIATED WITH THE CONDUCT OF A REFERENDUM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03040-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 223, VANEL, L. ROSENTHAL, GOTTFRIED, COLTON.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING WATER WORKS

                    CORPORATIONS TO POST WATER SUPPLY STATEMENTS ONLINE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 223.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                         267



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03343, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 224, ZEBROWSKI, GALEF, COLTON, ABINANTI, BUCHWALD, HUNTER,

                    D'URSO, MCDONALD, STECK, WOERNER, BUTTENSCHON, GRIFFIN.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO VIOLATIONS OF THE UNIFORM FIRE

                    PREVENTION AND BUILDING CODE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    ZEBROWSKI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04077-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 225, BARRETT, COLTON, L. ROSENTHAL, GOTTFRIED, STECK, OTIS.

                    AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE REMOVAL OF SPECIES FROM THE ENDANGERED AND THREATENED SPECIES

                    LIST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04153, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 226, GUNTHER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO THE PROMOTION OF NEW YORK STATE FARM PRODUCTS FOR

                    HOLIDAY CELEBRATIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MRS.

                    GUNTHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         268



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 226.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04867-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 227, ROZIC, LUPARDO, ZEBROWSKI, MONTESANO, GRIFFIN,

                    WALLACE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PROVIDING THE OPTION TO EMPLOYEES OF ELECTRONIC CONFIRMATION IN LIEU OF

                    PAPER PAY STUBS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    ROZIC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 227.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         269



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05221-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 228, GALEF, STEC, ABINANTI, MAGNARELLI, SEAWRIGHT, RIVERA,

                    HYNDMAN, WILLIAMS, D'URSO, COOK, STIRPE, BLAKE.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW AND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE TAXATION OF PROPERTY OWNED BY A COOPERATIVE CORPORATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05609, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 229, WEINSTEIN, GOTTFRIED, LENTOL, ZEBROWSKI, COLTON, L.

                    ROSENTHAL, ABINANTI, SEAWRIGHT, JAFFEE, TAYLOR, GRIFFIN.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING PETITIONERS FOR

                    APPOINTMENT OF A GUARDIAN TO IDENTIFY OTHER PERSONS WHO MAY BE ABLE

                    TO MANAGE THE AFFAIRS OF AN INCAPACITATED PERSON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 229.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05627, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 230, WEINSTEIN, MOSLEY, JAFFEE ABBATE, COLTON, CYMBROWITZ,

                                         270



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    GALEF, ZEBROWSKI, JOYNER, ORTIZ, GLICK, DINOWITZ, CARROLL, D'URSO,

                    STECK, HYNDMAN, VANEL, RICHARDSON, AUBRY, WEPRIN, SEAWRIGHT,

                    ABINANTI, WALLACE, CAHILL, BURKE, TAYLOR.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

                    PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE REGULATION OF DEFAULT AND FORECLOSURE

                    OF REVERSE MORTGAGES ISSUED UNDER THE FEDERAL HOME EQUITY

                    CONVERSION MORTGAGE FOR SENIORS PROGRAM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    WEINSTEIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06093, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 231, CUSICK, JACOBSON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO INCREASING THE NUMBER OF REGISTRANTS AN ELECTION DISTRICT

                    MAY CONTAIN WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS;

                    AUTHORIZES INCREASE OF COUNTY COMMITTEE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 231.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06477, RULES REPORT

                                         271



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    NO. 232, WRIGHT, D'URSO, COLTON, SAYEGH, M. G. MILLER, BURKE,

                    EPSTEIN, BLAKE, ABINANTI, MAGNARELLI, STECK, FERNANDEZ, TAYLOR, GLICK,

                    REYES, WILLIAMS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY ACTIONS AND

                    PROCEEDINGS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING A PLAINTIFF IN A MORTGAGE

                    FORECLOSURE ACTION TO MAINTAIN THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IN GOOD FAITH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06566-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 233, GUNTHER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO THE GERIATRIC SERVICE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM TO PROMOTE

                    MENTAL HEALTH AND HOME CARE COLLABORATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06976, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 234, WALLACE, MCMAHON, JACOBSON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

                    PROPERTY ACTIONS AND PROCEEDINGS LAW AND THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND

                    RULES, IN RELATION TO INCLUDING THE NAME AND TELEPHONE NUMBER OF THE

                    MORTGAGE SERVICER FOR A PLAINTIFF IN A MORTGAGE FORECLOSURE ACTION ON

                    CERTAIN DOCUMENTS PERTAINING TO SUCH ACTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    WALLACE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 234.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                                         272



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07110, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 235, GUNTHER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE ORGANIZATION OF ASSESSMENT CORPORATIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MRS.

                    GUNTHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 235.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07498-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 236, WOERNER, DICKENS, MCDONALD, D'URSO, BRABENEC,

                    DESTEFANO, GOTTFRIED, BARRON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE WORKERS'

                    COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION TO INCLUDING COVERAGE OF TREATMENT

                                         273



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    RENDERED BY A MASSAGE THERAPIST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    WOERNER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07579, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 237, REYES, ENGLEBRIGHT, DE LA ROSA, M. G. MILLER, MCDONALD,

                    GRIFFIN, GOTTFRIED, DESTEFANO, LAWRENCE, L. ROSENTHAL, FRONTUS,

                    GUNTHER, PICHARDO, GLICK, ARROYO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE WORKERS'

                    COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE DIRECT DEPOSIT OF BENEFITS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 237.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07822, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 238, SIMON, SAYEGH, THIELE, BLAKE, DICKENS, REYES, D'URSO,

                    ASHBY, BARRON, GOTTFRIED, CRUZ, EPSTEIN, GLICK, ABBATE, PICHARDO,

                    LUPARDO, ARROYO, JAFFEE, MOSLEY, O'DONNELL, RYAN, HUNTER, RA,

                    WEPRIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND CORRECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO A READING

                    PROFICIENCY LEVEL ASSESSMENT AND DYSLEXIA SCREENING FOR INCARCERATED

                                         274



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    INDIVIDUALS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 238.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08127, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 239, DINOWITZ, DE LA ROSA, OTIS, CARROLL, REYES.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO CAPITAL PROGRAM PLANS

                    OF THE METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT -- THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT

                    IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 3 -- 239.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                         275



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08146, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 240, PAULIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO CREATING A CROHN'S AND COLITIS IDENTIFICATION CARD.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 180 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 240.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08137-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 241, PICHARDO, ORTIZ, DICKENS, DE LA ROSA, SIMON,

                    ARROYO, REYES, DESTEFANO, D'URSO, GLICK, GOTTFRIED, BARRON, NIOU,

                    JACOBSON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO DISCRIMINATION AND RETALIATION AGAINST EMPLOYEES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08300-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 242, ZEBROWSKI.  AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE TOWN OF

                    CLARKSTOWN TO OFFER A CERTAIN RETIREMENT OPTION TO CLARKSTOWN POLICE

                    OFFICERS EDWARD FAIRCLOUGH, KYLE MCKIERNAN, CORRY DOYLE, AND SEAN

                    WEAVER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                                         276



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 242.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  COULD YOU PLEASE REPORT MR. BARRON IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  MR.

                    BARRON IN THE NEGATIVE.  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08361, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 243, JACOBSON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE "FIREFIGHTER

                    TIM GUNTHER MEMORIAL HIGHWAY".

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 243.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                                         277



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08645, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 244, HEVESI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO REQUIRING THE COMMISSIONER OF SOCIAL SERVICES TO SUBMIT A REPORT ON

                    THE SERVICES PROVIDED TO HUMAN TRAFFICKING SURVIVORS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 244.  THIS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08850, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 245, MCDONALD.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE TAXABLE STATUS DATE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         278



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 245.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08921, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 246, BARRETT, D'URSO, LAVINE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO DEFINING CERTAIN QUALIFYING CONDITIONS FOR VETERANS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 246.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08936, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 247, THIELE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO COMPREHENSIVE AND REGULAR MANAGEMENT AND OPERATIONS

                    AUDITS.

                                         279



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 247.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09525, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 248, BUCHWALD, ZEBROWSKI.  AN ACT TO AMEND EXECUTIVE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO PROVIDING THAT, IN HOUSING CASES ONLY, AFTER A DISMISSAL FOR

                    LACK OF PROBABLE CAUSE OR LACK OF JURISDICTION, A COMPLAINT WOULD HAVE

                    THE OPTION TO APPEAL THE FINAL ORDER, OR BRING A DE NOVO ACTION IN COURT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY A09536, RULES REPORT NO.

                    249, MCDONALD, LENTOL, GALEF, SCHIMMINGER, BLAKE, SAYEGH,

                    BUTTENSCHON, BARRON, ASHBY, NORRIS, DESTEFANO, MORINELLO, BYRNE,

                    CROUCH, LAWRENCE, WALCZYK, JOYNER, HYNDMAN, D'URSO, SIMON, KOLB,

                    STECK, FAHY, WOERNER, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING CERTIFIED TREATMENT PROGRAMS TO NOTIFY

                    PATIENTS OF THEIR RIGHT TO NAME AN EMERGENCY CONTACT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    MCDONALD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                                         280



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 249.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09624, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 250, JACOBSON, WEPRIN, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    LAW AND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO CONSUMER

                    PROTECTIONS AGAINST CRAMMING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    JACOBSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 250.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                         281



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09677, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 251, ABINANTI, WRIGHT, JEAN-PIERRE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE BANKING

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO THE ORDER IN WHICH A PAYOR BANK SHALL PAY CHECKS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09691-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 252, GALEF.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO IMPLEMENTING A RESIDENTIAL PARKING SYSTEM IN THE VILLAGE

                    OF CROTON-ON-HUDSON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 252.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

                    WOULD PLEASE PUT OUR COLLEAGUE WEINSTEIN AS A NO VOTE ON THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, MR. CAHILL

                                         282



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    AS WELL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09702, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 253, WEPRIN, CRUZ, EICHENSTEIN, AUBRY, EPSTEIN, L. ROSENTHAL,

                    MOSLEY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PROHIBITING THE COMMISSIONER OF CORRECTIONS AND COMMUNITY

                    SUPERVISION FROM PROMULGATING POLICY TO REQUIRE INMATES TO WAIVE

                    RELIGIOUS RIGHTS IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN INMATE PROGRAMS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09750, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 254, GLICK.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    CUMULATIVE GRADE POINT AVERAGE ADMISSION REQUIREMENT FOR

                    GRADUATE-LEVEL TEACHER AND EDUCATIONAL LEADER PROGRAMS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    GLICK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 254.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                         283



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WE HAVE

                    SOME NO VOTES IN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS:  MR. FITZPATRICK, MR.

                    MONTESANO AND MR. DIPIETRO.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09779-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 255, THIELE, ENGLEBRIGHT, NORRIS, DESTEFANO, HAWLEY,

                    GALEF, MORINELLO, MCMAHON, HUNTER, STERN, LUPARDO.  AN ACT

                    DIRECTING THE OFFICE OF FIRE PREVENTION AND CONTROL WITHIN THE DIVISION

                    OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND EMERGENCY SERVICES TO FORM A TASK FORCE

                    AND ISSUE A REPORT RELATING TO VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER RECRUITMENT AND

                    RETENTION; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON

                    EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 255.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                         284



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09804, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 256, HYNDMAN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY CENTERS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 256.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09921, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 257, LENTOL.  AN ACT DIRECTING A STUDY ON THE IMPACT OF INCREASED

                    MINIMUM WAGE ON ELIGIBILITY FOR INCOME-BASED SERVICES, PROGRAMS AND

                    SUBSIDIES AND THE IMPACT OF LOSS OF SERVICES ON THE WORKING POOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         285



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 257.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09965, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 258, L. ROSENTHAL, OTIS, SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    CORRECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE RIGHTS OF PREGNANT INMATES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 258.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  THE DISPARITIES IN MATERNAL HEALTH CARE ACCESS AND

                    SERVICES THAT EXIST FOR BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN ARE ONLY MAGNIFIED IN

                    PRISON, WHERE THE LEGACY OF SYSTEMIC RACISM IS ACUTELY SEEN.  JUST FIVE

                    YEARS AGO, PREGNANT INDIVIDUALS WERE STILL SHACKLED DURING CHILDBIRTH IF

                                         286



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THEY WERE IN PRISON.  PREGNANT INDIVIDUALS SHOULD NOT LOSE THEIR RIGHTS

                    AND THEIR DIGNITY, OR BE DEVALUED WHEN THEY ARE IN PRISON.  THIS BILL IS

                    A STEP IN CHANGING THE WAY PREGNANT PEOPLE ARE TREATED AND RESTORING TO

                    THEM THEIR RIGHTS TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE.  THIS BILL WILL ALLOW

                    PREGNANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A SUPPORT PERSON OF THEIR CHOOSING DURING

                    LABOR AND DELIVERY, GUARANTEE THEY RECEIVE COUNSELING, AS WELL AS

                    NOTICE OF THEIR OPTION TO PARTICIPATE IN PREGNANCY COUNSELING, AND

                    ENSURE THEY RECEIVE NOTIFICATION ABOUT THE AVAILABILITY OF IN-PRISON

                    NURSERY PROGRAMS SO THEY MAY BE WITH THEIR BABY AFTER THE BABY IS

                    BORN.

                                 I WANT TO THANK THE CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION OF NEW

                    YORK, WOMEN IN PRISON PROJECT, THE NEW YORK CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION,

                    PLANNED PARENTHOOD EMPIRE STATE, AND THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR

                    REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE FOR THEIR SUPPORT OF THIS BILL.  WE MUST

                    CHANGE THE CARCERAL SYSTEM THAT STRIPS THOSE WHO ARE IN PRISON OF THEIR

                    RIGHTS AND CAUSES HARM, ESPECIALLY TO PREGNANT INDIVIDUALS.  AND WITH

                    THAT, I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. WEPRIN.

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WANT TO

                    PRAISE THE SPONSOR FOR DOING THIS BILL.  WE'VE DONE A NUMBER OF BILLS

                    SINCE I'M CORRECTION CHAIR TO HELP PREGNANT WOMEN WHILE THEY'RE

                    INCARCERATED.  THIS BILL WILL GO A LONG WAY TO PROVIDING THE -- THE

                    NEEDED HELP THAT PREGNANT WOMEN NEED DURING CHILDBIRTH.  SO I

                                         287



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    PROUDLY WITH -- WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. WEPRIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10039, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 259, ROZIC.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE FAMILY COURT ACT, THE CRIMINAL

                    PROCEDURE LAW, AND THE DOMESTIC RELATIONS LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PROHIBITING A PARTY TO AN ORDER OF PROTECTION FROM REMOTELY CONTROLLING

                    ANY CONNECTED DEVICES OF A PERSON PROTECTED BY SUCH ORDER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 259.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10041, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 260, GUNTHER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW AND

                    THE TOWN LAW, IN RELATION TO INCREASING THE REVENUE THRESHOLD FOR

                    ANNUAL AUDIT OF FIRE DISTRICTS.

                                         288



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 260.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10043, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 261, DENDEKKER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO INCLUDING ELECTRONIC MESSAGING TEXTS AS A FORM OF

                    TELEMARKETING COMMUNICATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 261.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         289



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10060-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 262, BICHOTTE.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO RENAMING THE NEWKIRK

                    AVENUE SUBWAY STATION ON THE IRT NOSTRAND AVENUE LINE THE

                    "NEWKIRK AVENUE - LITTLE HAITI STATION".

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10078, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 263, BICHOTTE, MOSLEY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE

                    CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO A LICENSE TO SELL LIQUOR AT RETAIN FOR

                    CONSUMPTION ON CERTAIN PREMISES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    BICHOTTE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 263.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  IF WE COULD COUNT

                    MEMBER GLICK IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

                                 ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         290



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10118 -- A10118-A,

                    RULES REPORT NO. 264, ZEBROWSKI, MOSLEY, STERN, GALEF, D'URSO,

                    GRIFFIN, JAFFEE, THIELE, GOTTFRIED, COLTON, SEAWRIGHT, SIMON,

                    O'DONNELL, MCMAHON, ENGLEBRIGHT, CAHILL, BRONSON, OTIS,

                    BUTTENSCHON, MCDONALD, FAHY, DICKENS, DARLING, ORTIZ, LIFTON,

                    SAYEGH, FRONTUS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE FINANCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO REQUIRING CERTAIN PROVIDERS THAT EXTEND SPECIFIC TERMS OF

                    COMMERCIAL FINANCING TO A RECIPIENT TO DISCLOSE CERTAIN INFORMATION

                    ABOUT THE OFFER TO THE RECIPIENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10194, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 265, WEPRIN, SIMON, GOTTFRIED.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION TO ACCESS,

                    VISIT, INSPECT, AND EXAMINE ALL STATE CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10196, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 26 -- 266, JEAN-PIERRE, BARRETT, STERN, MOSLEY, BUTTENSCHON,

                    SEAWRIGHT, GRIFFIN, CUSICK, WALLACE, DESTEFANO, TAGUE, MCDONOUGH,

                    MORINELLO, B. MILLER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, THE

                    MILITARY LAW AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAW, IN RELATION TO CERTIFICATES OF

                    HONORABLE SEPARATION FROM OR SERVICE IN THE ARMED FORCES OF THE

                    UNITED STATES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         291



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 266.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU

                    HAVE ANY HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS TO TAKE UP?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WE HAVE NUMEROUS

                    FINE RESOLUTIONS WHICH WE WILL TAKE UP WITH ONE VOTE.  ON THE

                    RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.  THE RESOLUTIONS

                    ARE ADOPTED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 964-968

                    WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I NOW

                    MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL 10:00 A.M., WEDNESDAY,

                    JULY THE 22ND, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY; UNTIL 10:00 A.M.,

                    WEDNESDAY JULY THE 22ND, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  DID I HEAR YOU SAY

                    10:00 A.M.?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  TEN A.M., SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

                                         292



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                    JULY 21, 2020

                    ADJOURNED -- EASTERN TIME.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 THE ASSEMBLY STANDS ADJOURNED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 9:05 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD

                    ADJOURNED UNTIL WEDNESDAY, JULY 22ND AT 10:00 A.M., WEDNESDAY

                    BEING A SESSION DAY.)







































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