WEDNESDAY, JULY 22, 2020                                        10:51 A.M.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

                    SILENCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

                                 VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

                    OF ALLEGIANCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

                    MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

                                 A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, JULY 21ST.

                                 MRS. PEOPLE-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO

                                          1



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, JULY 21ST

                    AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

                    ORDERED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  HERE WE'D LIKE TO INSERT A QUOTE FOR TODAY.  THIS ONE IS

                    COMING FROM IDA B. WELLS AND IT'S REALLY BRIEF, BUT IT'S VERY PROFOUND.

                    IT SIMPLY STATES:  "THE WAY TO RIGHT WRONGS IS TO TURN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH

                    UPON THEM."  AGAIN, IDA B. WELLS.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, GOOD MORNING TO ALL WHO ARE IN THE

                    CHAMBERS AND THOSE WHO ARE WITH US REMOTELY.  YESTERDAY WAS A

                    PRETTY PRODUCTIVE DAY.  WE'D LIKE TO MIRROR THAT AND HAVE ANOTHER

                    PRODUCTIVE DAY, AS WELL.  MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR DESK OR AT -- AVAILABLE

                    TO THEM A MAIN CALENDAR, AN A-CALENDAR AND A DEBATE LIST.  AT THIS

                    TIME, MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD LIKE TO ADVANCE THE A-CALENDAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WE WILL CONTINUE OUR WORK TODAY BEGINNING WHERE WE LEFT

                    OFF YESTERDAY ON CONSENT, BEGINNING WITH RULES REPORT NO. 267, WHICH

                    IS ON PAGE 11, AND WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH RULES REPORT NO. 283,

                    WHICH IS ON PAGE 14.  WE WILL ALSO WORK OFF THE DEBATE LIST, AS WELL,

                    AND TAKE UP SOME BILLS ON CONSENT FROM THE A-CALENDAR.

                                 MEMBERS SHOULD BE AWARE THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE

                                          2



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    SOME COMMITTEE MEETINGS TODAY:  CODES, JUDICIARY, WAYS AND MEANS

                    AND RULES.  THOSE COMMITTEES WILL PRODUCE A B-CALENDAR, WHICH WE

                    WILL TAKE UP AT SOME POINT TODAY OR TOMORROW; HOPEFULLY TODAY.

                    MEMBERS SHOULD BE AWARE ALSO THAT WE WILL NEED TO STAND IN RECESS

                    AROUND 1:00 O'CLOCK TODAY FOR MINORITY CONFERENCE, WHICH WILL BE

                    IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS JUST LAID OUT FOR

                    YOU.  AGAIN:  CODES, JUDICIARY, WAYS AND MEANS AND RULES.  THOSE

                    SHOULD START AT 2:00.

                                 THE PROCEDURES FOR DEALING WITH THESE -- THIS

                    MOVEMENT THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN BETWEEN SESSION AND CONFERENCE

                    AND COMMITTEE MEETINGS AND BACK TO SESSION, MAJORITY MEMBERS

                    SHOULD SIMPLY REMAIN IN OUR ZOOM SESSION DURING RECESS AND

                    COMMITTEE MEETINGS.  COMMITTEE MEMBERS WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY

                    MOVED BY OUR TECHNICAL STAFF TO THE ZOOM COMMITTEE MEETING.  I WILL

                    JUST REPEAT THAT --

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 -- MAJORITY MEMBERS SHOULD SIMPLY REMAIN IN OUR

                    ZOOM SESSION DURING THE RECESS AND COMMITTEE MEETINGS.  COMMITTEE

                    MEMBERS WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY MOVED BY OUR TECHNICAL STAFF TO THE

                    ZOOM COMMITTEE MEETING.  MINORITY MEMBERS WILL NEED TO EXIT OUR

                    ZOOM SESSION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THEIR VIRTUAL CONFERENCE.

                    UPON THE CONCLUSION OF THAT CONFERENCE, THEY SHOULD RETURN TO THE

                    ZOOM SESSION VIA THE EARLIER LINK.  MINORITY COMMITTEE MEMBERS WILL

                    THEN AUTOMATICALLY BE MOVED TO OUR -- BY OUR TECHNICAL STAFF TO THE

                    ZOOM COMMITTEES.  UPON THE CONCLUSION OF COMMITTEES, WE WILL BE

                                          3



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ABLE TO THEN RESUME OUR SESSION PROCEEDINGS.

                                 I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO REMIND

                    MEMBERS THAT WE WILL BE OPERATING UNDER THE SAME RULES AS WE DID

                    YESTERDAY.  JUST A REMINDER, THOSE PARTICIPATING BY ZOOM SHOULD UTILIZE

                    THE "RAISE HAND" FUNCTION WHEN SEEKING TO BE RECOGNIZED FOR DEBATE OR

                    TO EXPLAIN THEIR VOTE.  AS IN OUR PREVIOUS REMOTE SESSIONS, WHEN WE

                    ARE ON A FAST ROLL CALL OR A PARTY VOTE, MEMBERS WISHING TO BE AN

                    EXCEPTION SHOULD CONTACT THEIR RESPECTIVE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE OR

                    MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I BELIEVE WE'RE READY TO

                    PROCEED CONSIDERING THE IMPORTANT WORK BEFORE US, AND IF WE COULD

                    PLEASE START WITH RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  BUT

                    BEFORE WE GO THERE, WE'D LIKE TO REMIND ALL MEMBERS ON BOTH SIDES OF

                    THE AISLE THAT THIS IS A LIVE BROADCAST AND THAT YOU ARE -- AS YOU DEBATE

                    BILLS, AS YOU QUESTION, YOU MUST BE DRESSED IN -- APPROPRIATELY FOR THE

                    CHAMBER IN ORDER FOR US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CONDUCTING BUSINESS

                    IN THE SAME MANNER AS IF YOU WERE HERE.  WE HOPE THAT YOU WILL

                    REMEMBER THAT.  WE KNOW YOU ARE DOING THIS REMOTELY AND SOMETIMES

                    WE CAN BE A LITTLE LAX.  IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO PRESENT YOURSELF IN

                    CHAMBER-READY ATTIRE, WE WILL HOLD OFF AND LET -- GO TO THE NEXT

                    MEMBER WHO MIGHT BE WAITING TO SPEAK OR -- AND/OR DEBATE, AND YOU

                    WILL BE NOTIFIED BY YOUR MAJORITY STAFF OR MINORITY STAFF TO COME INTO

                    COMPLIANCE.  WE APPRECIATE YOU, AND WE THANK YOU.

                                 NOW, MR. WALCZYK FOR AN INTRODUCTION.  THE FIRST THAT

                                          4



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    WE'VE HAD IN SOME TIME, MR. WALCZYK.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  AND THANK YOU, MADAM MAJORITY LEADER, AND TO OUR

                    MINORITY LEADER, AS WELL, AND THIS AUGUST BODY FOR ALLOWING ME TO

                    BRIEFLY INTERRUPT OUR PROCEEDINGS TO INTRODUCE SOMEONE WHO, THE LAST

                    TIME SHE WAS IN THIS CHAMBER SHE WAS MY FIANCÉE, AND ON THE 21ST OF

                    SEPTEMBER IN 2019, SHE BECAME MY WIFE.  I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOU TO

                    THE FIRST LADY OF THE FRONT YARD OF AMERICA, JESSICA KAITLIN PIATT

                    WALCZYK.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  JESSICA,

                    ON BEHALF OF MR. WALCZYK, YOUR HUSBAND, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE

                    MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.

                    WE EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE

                    THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE COME TO SHARE WITH YOUR HUSBAND AND WITH US

                    PROCEEDINGS EVEN IN AN EMPTY CHAMBER.  AND SO, CLEARLY WE ARE HAPPY

                    TO SEE YOU, KNOW THAT YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME HERE.  AS A PART OF THIS

                    FAMILY, YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME TO COME.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

                    STAY HEALTHY, STAY WELL.  THANK YOU.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 969, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MR. ZEBROWSKI.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR M.

                    CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2020, AS MIGRAINE AND HEADACHE AWARENESS

                                          5



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 970, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. BUTTENSCHON.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR M.

                    CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JULY 2020, AS ICE CREAM MONTH IN THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 971, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. SIMON.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JULY 2020, AS CLEFT AND CRANIOFACIAL

                    AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 972, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MR. CUSICK.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM SEPTEMBER 2020, AS BRAIN ANEURYSM

                    AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                          6



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 973, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MR. BARRON.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 2020, AS BREAST CANCER

                    AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.

                                 PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 267 ON CONSENT.  THE

                    CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10316, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 267, LIFTON.  AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE CITY OF CORTLAND, IN THE

                    COUNTY OF CORTLAND TO OFFER AN OPTIONAL 20-YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN TO

                    FIREFIGHTER TRAVIS MARSHALL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 267.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                          7



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10415, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 268, COMMITTEE ON RULES (LIFTON).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE CITY OF ITHACA TO ESTABLISH HOTEL AND

                    MOTEL TAXES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 268.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  I WILL BE

                    SUPPORTING THIS BILL, ALTHOUGH I DO NOTE THAT SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL

                    HAVE CONCERN BECAUSE IT DOES INCREASE THE HOTEL AND MOTEL TAXES IN THE

                    CITY OF ITHACA.  UNFORTUNATELY, SINCE ALMOST EVERYONE IN THE NATION IS

                    NOW BANNED FROM COMING AND VISITING UNLESS THEY'RE STAYING FOR TWO

                    WEEKS, THOSE WHO DO COME TO THE CITY OF ITHACA WILL STAY FOR A MUCH

                    LONGER TIME, HOPEFULLY.  AND SO, HOPEFULLY THAT WILL HELP THE LOCAL

                    MUNICIPALITY.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                          8



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING REPUBLICAN MEMBERS IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION:

                    MR. FITZPATRICK, MR. FRIEND, MR. MONTESANO, MR. NORRIS, MR. LIPETRI,

                    MR. SCHMITT, MR. PALUMBO, MR. DIPIETRO, MR. DESTEFANO, MS.

                    MALLIOTAKIS, MR. KOLB, MR. BYRNE AND MR. REILLY.  PRESUMABLY, THESE

                    REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES LOVE THE CITY OF ITHACA, BUT JUST DON'T WANT TO

                    PAY MORE WHEN THEY'RE VISITING.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IF YOU COULD RECORD OUR MAJORITY COLLEAGUES IN THE NEGATIVE

                    ON THIS ONE:  MRS. BARRETT, MR. BURKE, MS. GRIFFIN, MS. MCMAHON, MR.

                    RAMOS, MR. SANTABARBARA, MR. STERN, MR. STIRPE, MS. WALLACE, MR.

                    BARNWELL, MR. MILLER, MS. BUTTENSCHON AND MR. CUSICK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF WE COULD

                    ALSO ADD IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE, MR. BARRON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                          9



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10428, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 269, COMMITTEE ON RULES (HEVESI, JAFFEE).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO DEFINING A KINSHIP CAREGIVER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10463-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 270, COMMITTEE ON RULES (GOTTFRIED, WEPRIN, DE LA ROSA,

                    JAFFEE, MCDONALD, LENTOL, SEAWRIGHT, DINOWITZ, CRUZ, HUNTER, TAYLOR,

                    DICKENS, L. ROSENTHAL, SIMON, ORTIZ, D'URSO, QUART, PAULIN, BRONSON,

                    CAHILL, MOSLEY, PERRY, CUSICK, LIFTON, ENGLEBRIGHT).  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO REVIEW OF POLICIES AND PRACTICES

                    RELATING TO ANY INFECTIOUS DISEASE OUTBREAK IN CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES,

                    INCLUDING THE TREATMENT AND PREVENTION OF THE DISEASE AMONG INMATES

                    AND STAFF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 270.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10470-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 271, COMMITTEE ON RULES (FALL, SIMON, DARLING,

                                         10



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    O'DONNELL, WALKER, DICKENS, CUSICK, TAYLOR).  AN ACT IN RELATION TO

                    DIRECTING THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A STUDY ON THE

                    DELIVERY OF AMBULATORY CARE ON STATEN ISLAND.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR [SIC] NO. 271.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE, MR. FALL.

                                 MR. FALL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER; THANK YOU

                    MADAM MAJORITY LEADER AND THE PROGRAM AND COUNSEL STAFF THAT

                    WORKED REALLY HARD ON THIS BILL, INCLUDING MY STAFF.  AS MANY OF YOU

                    KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE A PUBLIC HOSPITAL ON STATEN ISLAND AND THEY'RE IN

                    THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC.  WE HAD AN URGENT CARE FACILITY THAT CLOSED

                    DOWN WITHOUT ANY NOTIFICATION TO THE PUBLIC.  AND SO, WHAT THIS BILL

                    WILL DO, IT WOULD REQUIRE THAT ANY URGENT CARE FACILITIES ON STATEN ISLAND

                    PROVIDE A 30-DAY NOTIFICATION TO STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, AND IT

                    WILL ALSO DO A STUDY ON URGENT CARE FACILITIES ON STATEN ISLAND TO ENSURE

                    -- OR TAKE A LOOK AT ANY ISSUES THAT THE PUBLIC MAY NOT SEE THAT'S AN

                    ISSUE.  SO, YOU KNOW, I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. FALL IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                         11



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10566-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 272, COMMITTEE ON RULES (HEVESI, BARRON, COLTON).  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE

                    COMMISSIONER TO PREPARE A REPORT OF THE SHELTERED AND UNSHELTERED

                    HOMELESS POPULATION DURING A STATE DISASTER EMERGENCY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 272.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10567-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 273 WAS PREVIOUSLY AMENDED ON THIRD READING.


                                 ASSEMBLY NO. A10634-B, RULES REPORT NO. 274,

                    COMMITTEE ON RULES (MCDONALD).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO INSTILLING MYDRIATIC OR CYCLOPLEGIC EYE DROPS BY

                    PERSONS TRAINED AND DEEMED QUALIFIED BY SUPERVISING LICENSED

                    PHYSICIANS OR SUPERVISING LICENSED OPTOMETRISTS; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN

                                         12



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    PROVISIONS OF SUCH LAW RELATING THERETO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT MAY 5TH --

                    MAY 20TH, 2020.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 274.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10652-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 275, COMMITTEE ON RULES (D'URSO).  AN ACT AUTHORIZING

                    THE COUNTY OF NASSAU TO ALIENATE CERTAIN LANDS USED BY -- AS PARKLANDS

                    TO ENABLE THE PORT WASHINGTON WATER DISTRICT TO CONSTRUCT, MAINTAIN

                    AND OPERATE A WATER TREATMENT FACILITY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 275.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                         13



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE HAVE

                    SEVERAL OF OUR COLLEAGUES WHO WOULD LIKE TO BE RECORDED IN THE

                    NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE:  MS. GLICK, MR. BARRON, MR. CAHILL, MS.

                    WEINSTEIN, MR. MILLER AND MS. SIMON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  THE BILL IS PASSED --

                    ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 AND NOW THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A107-- A10673, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 276, COMMITTEE ON RULES (HEVESI, BARRON).  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO USING SUPPLEMENTAL

                    NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM BENEFITS TO PURCHASE ONLINE GROCERIES

                    AND TO THE STATE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM OUTREACH

                    PROGRAM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10674-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 277, COMMITTEE ON RULES (OTIS, MCDONALD, MOSLEY,

                    DICKENS, SEAWRIGHT).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    WRITTEN NOTICE REQUIREMENTS FOR MASS LAYOFFS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         14



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 277.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. OTIS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. OTIS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS

                    LEGISLATION COMES FROM AN EVENT THAT OCCURRED IN THE DISTRICT THAT I

                    REPRESENT, A LARGE LAYOFF OF A BIG PROPERTY.  BUT WHAT IT BRINGS US IS

                    SOME LEGISLATION THAT SHOULD BE HELPFUL TO EVERYBODY IN THE STATE,

                    WHICH IS IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A LARGE LAYOFF, THIS LEGISLATION NOW

                    REQUIRES THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS AFFECTED TO RECEIVE

                    NOTICE UNDER THE LABOR LAWS WARN NOTICE.  AND IN THE CASE THAT WE

                    HAD, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT IMPACTS, NOT JUST THE

                    LOSS OF THE JOBS, BUT OTHER KINDS OF IMPACTS AND COSTS TO TAXPAYERS THAT

                    WE'RE NOW GOING TO GIVE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS EARLY

                    NOTICE OF, AS WE ARE GIVING EARLY NOTICE TO WORKERS.

                                 IT'S A GOOD PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  I THANK THE HOUSE FOR

                    PASSING IT.  I'M CONFIDENT IT'S GOING TO PASS IN THE OTHER HOUSE AND I

                    THINK WE'RE DOING SOMETHING GOOD HERE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, SCHOOL

                    DISTRICTS AND COMMUNITIES WITH THIS LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. OTIS IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         15



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10741, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 278, COMMITTEE ON RULES (GLICK, GRIFFIN).  AN ACT IN RELATION TO

                    PERMITTING THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT TO RENEW LIMITED AND PROVISIONAL

                    PERMITS FOR ADDITIONAL -- AN ADDITIONAL 12 MONTHS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 278.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10743, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 279, COMMITTEE ON RULES (HEVESI, BARRON).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING THAT RECEIPT OF THE

                    TEMPORARY EMERGENCY INCREASE IN UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION

                    BENEFITS AS PROVIDED FOR BY THE FEDERAL CORONAVIRUS AID, RELIEF, AND

                    ECONOMIC SECURITY ACT (15 U.S.C. SEC. 9023) SHALL NOT AFFECT BENEFIT

                    ELIGIBILITY FOR CERTAIN PUBLIC ASSISTANCE BENEFITS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10774, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 280, COMMITTEE ON RULES (LIFTON, SAYEGH).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    GENERAL CITY LAW, IN RELATION TO EXEMPTING THE CITY OF CORTLAND FROM

                                         16



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ARTICLE IV OF THE GENERAL CITY LAW.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 280.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A1078 -- A10783-A,

                    RULES REPORT NO. 281 WAS PREVIOUSLY AMENDED ON THIRD READING.


                                 ASSEMBLY NO. A10793, RULES REPORT NO. 282,

                    COMMITTEE ON RULES (GLICK).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE ISSUANCE OF CERTIFICATE OF RESIDENCE FORMS TO INDIVIDUALS

                    DESIRING TO ENROLL IN COMMUNITY COLLEGES AS NON-RESIDENT STUDENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 282.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                         17



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10796, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 283, COMMITTEE ON RULES (GRIFFIN).  AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE

                    VILLAGE OF MALVERNE, IN THE COUNTY OF NASSAU, TO OFFER A 20-YEAR

                    RETIREMENT PLAN TO POLICE OFFICER THOMAS SMITH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 283.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IF YOU COULD PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE, CHARLES BARRON, IN

                    THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MR.

                    FITZPATRICK IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL, AS WELL.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                         18



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD

                    ASSEMBLYMEM -- ASSEMBLYMEMBER DIPIETRO IN THE NEGATIVE, AS WELL.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  COULD WE PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE, MS. FAHY, AS A NO ON

                    THIS ONE, AS WELL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  SO

                    NOTED.

                                 MR. GOODELL AGAIN.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  ALSO MR. WALCZYK WILL BE IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  SO NOTED,

                    MR. WALCZYK.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF WE CAN

                    NOW TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THE A-CALENDAR, WHICH YOU ADVANCED EARLIER,

                    AND GO RIGHT TO PAGE 3 AND START WITH RULES REPORT NO. 284.  AND WE'RE

                    GOING TO JUST KEEP GOING, MR. SPEAKER; WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO KNOCK THIS

                                         19



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ONE OFF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 ON THE A-CALENDAR, RULES REPORT NO. 284.  THE

                    CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00042, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 284, PERRY, BARRON, COLTON, COOK, NIOU, RIVERA, SEAWRIGHT,

                    WEPRIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PUBLIC NOTIFICATION OF TRACKING RETURN POLICY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03173-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 285, DINOWITZ, GOTTFRIED, ARROYO, STIRPE, GALEF, JOYNER,

                    PICHARDO, ABINANTI, FAHY, SEAWRIGHT, EPSTEIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING CERTAIN PRACTICES BY

                    BUSINESSES MAKING AN AUTOMATIC RENEWAL OR CONTINUOUS SERVICE OFFER TO

                    CONSUMERS IN THE STATE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 285.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                         20



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05839-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 286, PAULIN, ABINANTI, BUCHWALD, GALEF, OTIS, PRETLOW,

                    SAYEGH.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE WESTCHESTER COUNTY ADMINISTRATIVE

                    CODE, IN RELATION TO THE LEASE OR SALE OF REAL PROPERTY FOR PARK PURPOSES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 286.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07508-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 287, MOSLEY, REYES, WRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    BANKING LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING STATE CHARTERED BANKING

                    INSTITUTIONS FROM INVESTING IN AND PROVIDING FINANCING FOR PRIVATE

                    PRISONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

                                         21



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08034, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 288, DINOWITZ.  AN ACT TO AMEND CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND RULES, IN

                    RELATION TO CLASS ACTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09097, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 289, GOTTFRIED.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO APPLICATIONS FOR FUNDS UNDER THE PHYSICIAN LOAN REPAYMENT

                    AND PHYSICIAN PRACTICE SUPPORT PROGRAMS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    GOTTFRIED, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 289.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09684, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 290, EPSTEIN, REYES, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO LOCAL SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT PLACES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         22



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 290.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  MEMBERS --

                    ANY MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I RISE TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  THIS IS AN IMPORTANT BILL BECAUSE AS WE MOVE

                    FORWARD WITH THE ENVIRONMENTAL -- WITH THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES,

                    ASSURING THAT WE HAVE SOLID WASTE PLANS THAT INCLUDE COMPOSTING AND

                    RECYCLING IS CRITICAL.  I WANT TO THANK THE LEADERS FOR PUTTING THIS BILL

                    BEFORE US AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10001, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 291, THIELE, PALUMBO, MCDONOUGH, LIPETRI, RA, MIKULIN,

                    DESTEFANO, SMITH, LAVINE, GRIFFIN, ENGLEBRIGHT, D'URSO, STERN.  AN ACT

                    TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    REGULATION OF MINING AND THE RECLAMATION OF MINES WITHIN COUNTIES

                    WITH A POPULATION OF ONE MILLION OR MORE WHICH DRAW THEIR PRIMARY

                    SOURCE OF DRINKING WATER FOR A MAJORITY OF COUNTY RESIDENTS FROM A

                                         23



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    DESIGNATED SOLE SOURCE AQUIFER; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH

                    LAW RELATING THERETO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 291.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ARE THERE ANY

                    OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10034, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 292, GOTTFRIED, HUNTER, GALEF.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING PARITY IN THE STANDARDS OF DENTAL

                    TELEHEALTH SERVICES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 294 [SIC].  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.

                    ANY MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                         24



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 RULES REPORT NO. 292.  SORRY.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10236-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 293, GALEF, BUCHWALD, SEAWRIGHT, HUNTER, COLTON,

                    ABINANTI, THIELE, DINOWITZ, JAFFEE, CARROLL, FAHY, GOTTFRIED,

                    MCMAHON, CAHILL, MOSLEY, MONTESANO, B. MILLER, JACOBSON, PAULIN,

                    BARRON, DICKENS, SAYEGH, ORTIZ, L. ROSENTHAL, ENGLEBRIGHT, WALLACE,

                    MAGNARELLI, SIMON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR DECOMMISSIONING OVERSIGHT BOARDS FOR

                    NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS IN NEW YORK STATE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE BILL IS LAID

                    ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10317, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 294, PEOPLES-STOKES.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO A QUORUM OF THE ADVISORY COUNCIL ON LEAD POISONING

                    PREVENTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 294.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                                         25



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10581-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 295 WAS PREVIOUSLY AMENDED ON THIRD READING.


                                 ASSEMBLY NO. A10803-A, RULES REPORT NO. 296 WAS

                    PREVIOUSLY AMENDED ON THIRD READING.


                                 ASSEMBLY NO. A10805-A, RULES REPORT NO. 297,

                    COMMITTEE ON RULES (PERRY).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE JUDICIARY LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE STATE COMMISSION ON PROSECUTORIAL CONDUCT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE BILL IS LAID

                    ASIDE.

                                 MR. OTIS.

                                 MR. OTIS:  MR. [SIC] SPEAKER, WE'RE NOW GOING TO

                    MOVE TO - AND COLLEAGUES - TO THE DEBATE LIST FOR CALENDAR NO. 38.  THAT

                    WILL BE RULES REPORT NO. 171, MR. BRONSON; RULES REPORT NO. 180,

                    MR. OTIS; RULES REPORT NO. 181, MR. EPSTEIN AND RULES REPORT NO.

                    185, MS. PAULIN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    OTIS.

                                         26



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 PAGE 5, RULES REPORT NO. 171, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07646-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 171, BRONSON, JOHNS, KOLB.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    MUNICIPAL LAW, IN RELATION TO ENSURING PAID EMPLOYEES OF A COUNTY

                    AIRPORT OR COUNTY AVIATION DEPARTMENT WHICH PERFORM FIRE RESPONSE OR

                    FIRE RESCUE DUTIES ARE ELIGIBLE FOR EQUAL BENEFITS AS OTHER PAID

                    FIREFIGHTERS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  EXPLANATION, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MR. BRONSON, AN

                    EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MR. BRONSON:  YES, MR. [SIC] SPEAKER.  THIS BILL

                    IS GOING TO AUTHORIZE BENEFITS TO FIREFIGHTERS WHO ARE PAID FIREFIGHTERS

                    THROUGH A COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT OR A COUNTY AVIATION DEPARTMENT, AND

                    THIS RECTIFIES DECISIONS MADE BOTH BY PERB, AS WELL AS THROUGH OUR

                    COURT SYSTEM THAT HAD DEEMED THAT THESE FIREFIGHTERS WHO PERFORM THE

                    SAME TYPE OF DUTIES AS OTHER PAID FIREFIGHTERS WOULD NOT BE COVERED

                    UNDER THE BENEFIT SECTION OF GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW 207-A.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MR. TAGUE.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  MR. [SIC] SPEAKER, THIS ISN'T THE BILL

                    THAT I HAD ASKED TO SPEAK ON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  OKAY.  THANK

                    YOU, MR. TAGUE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                         27



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. BRONSON:  YES, I WILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MR. BRONSON

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. BRONSON.  THIS

                    WOULD BASICALLY REQUIRE PREVAILING WAGES, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, FOR

                    COUNTY AIRPORT AND COUNTY AVIATION DEPARTMENTS?  I'M SORRY, THE SAME

                    TYPE OF BENEFITS FOR FIRE EMPLOYEES; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. BRONSON:  NO, THAT IS NOT CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WHAT WOULD THIS BILL DO?

                                 MR. BRONSON:  WHAT THIS BILL WOULD INDICATE THAT

                    PAID FIREFIGHTERS WHO ARE EMPLOYED BY COUNTY -- BY COUNTY AIRPORTS AND

                    COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENTS PERFORMING DUTIES AT COUNTY AIRPORTS OR

                    EMPLOYEES OF THE COUNTY AVIATION DEPARTMENT WOULD GET PAID THE

                    DISABILITY BENEFIT FOR AN INJURY THAT WOULD OCCUR ON THE JOB, SIMILAR TO

                    OTHER PAID FIREFIGHTERS.  THE STATUTORY LANGUAGE HAS BEEN INTERPRETED BY

                    PERB, AS WELL AS THROUGH THE COURT OF APPEALS, NOT INCLUDING -- NOT TO

                    INCLUDE THESE PAID FIREFIGHTERS, NOTWITHSTANDING THEY PERFORM THE SAME

                    TYPE OF DUTIES AS OTHER PAID FIREFIGHTERS WHO WORK FOR FIRE DISTRICTS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  ONE OF THE CONCERNS

                    THAT'S BEEN RAISED IS WHETHER IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE STATE TO IMPOSE

                    NEW TERMS OR CONDITIONS THAT AFFECT OTHER MUNICIPAL LOCAL EMPLOYEES,

                    PARTICULARLY OTHER LOCAL EMPLOYEES THAT MAY ALREADY BE COVERED BY A

                    COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT.  WHAT IS THE POSITION OF THE LOCAL

                                         28



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    GOVERNMENTS AS IT RELATES TO THESE EMPLOYEES OF THEIRS?

                                 MR. BRONSON:  WELL, THIS ACTUALLY CREATES PARITY,

                    BECAUSE OTHER FIREFIGHTERS WHO PERFORM THESE SAME DUTIES WHO WORK

                    FOR MUNICIPALITIES SUCH AS VILLAGES, CITIES AND TOWNS RECEIVE THESE

                    BENEFITS, BUT THOSE FIREFIGHTERS WHO WORK IN COUNTY AIRPORTS DO NOT

                    RECEIVE THE BENEFIT.  SO, THIS IS REALLY CREATING PARITY IN A SITUATION

                    WHERE THE COURT'S INTERPRETATION OF THE STATUTE PREVENTS THESE

                    INDIVIDUALS WHO PERFORM THE SAME DUTIES FROM GETTING THE SAME TYPE OF

                    BENEFITS.  AND KEEP IN MIND, THESE BENEFITS KICK IN WHEN A FIREFIGHTER

                    IS INJURED ON THE JOB IN PERFORMING THEIR DUTIES.  AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE

                    WANT TO PROTECT THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND OFFER THEM THE SAME TYPE OF

                    DISABILITY BENEFITS AS SOMEONE WHO'S WORKING IN, SAY, THE CITY OF

                    ROCHESTER FIRE DISTRICT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I UNDERSTAND THAT THE PURPOSE OF

                    THIS BILL IS TO CREATE THAT PARITY.  MY QUESTION WAS, HAVE YOU HEARD FROM

                    THE LOCAL COUNTY GOVERNMENTS THAT OPERATE THESE AIRPORTS AND, IF SO,

                    WHAT HAS THEIR POSITION BEEN?

                                 MR. BRONSON:  THE MONROE COUNTY EXECUTIVE IS

                    STRONGLY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS.  THE SITUATION ACTUALLY IS IN MANY OF THE

                    COUNTY AIRPORTS, THEY WOULD NOT BE COVERED BY THIS PARTICULAR BILL

                    BECAUSE, FOR INSTANCE, IN ALBANY MY UNDERSTANDING IS IN THAT COUNTY

                    AIRPORT, THEY'RE ACTUALLY EMPLOYEES OF THE CITY, SO THEY'RE ALREADY

                    COVERED.  IN OTHER AREAS, THE MUNICIPALITY OR IN THIS CASE, THE COUNTY,

                    HAS CONTRACTED OUT TO A PRIVATE COMPANY, SO THEY WOULDN'T BE COVERED

                    BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EMPLOYEES OF THE COUNTY AVIATION DEPARTMENT OR

                                         29



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THE COUNTY AIRPORT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    BRONSON.  I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

                                 ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS LEGISLATION

                    FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED BY MY COLLEAGUE.  SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES

                    MAY HAVE CONCERNS THAT THIS IS IMPOSING POTENTIALLY A NEW BENEFIT ON

                    OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, NAMELY COUNTIES ACROSS THE STATE THAT OPERATE

                    AIRPORTS.  AND THAT CAN BE OF PARTICULAR CONCERN BECAUSE MANY COUNTY

                    AIRPORTS ARE FUNDED WITH EMBARKMENT FEES.  THAT IS A FEE THAT'S PAID BY

                    THE PASSENGERS WHO ARE GETTING ON AIRPORTS [SIC].  SO, THERE'S A LANDING

                    FEE AND THERE'S A TAKEOFF FEE, IF YOU WILL, AN EMBARKMENT FEE.

                                 AND, AS YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THE TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS THAT

                    WE'VE BEEN WITNESSING OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS AND WITH THE COVID,

                    AIRPORT REVENUES FROM THE TRAVELING PUBLIC HAVE DROPPED RIGHT OFF THE

                    CHARTS.  SO, WE NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL THAT WE'RE NOT IMPOSING NEW

                    FINANCIAL BURDENS ON LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AT A VERY TIME WHEN THEIR

                    REVENUE SOURCES TO OPERATE THESE AIRPORTS ARE DROPPING FROM THE SKY,

                    SO-TO-SPEAK.  BUT THIS IS A RELATIVELY MODEST COST AND IT DOES BRING

                    PARITY AND THAT'S WHY I WILL BE SUPPORTING IT.  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  AND, AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         30



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 171.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMEMBERED TO

                    CONTACT -- IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT

                    THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BRONSON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BRONSON:  YES, MADAM SPEAKER, JUST BRIEFLY

                    TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE FOR MY COLLEAGUES AND THOSE WATCHING THE

                    PROCEEDINGS TODAY.  THIS BILL IS VITALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE HAVE

                    FIREFIGHTERS HERE IN MONROE COUNTY WHO ARE PROVIDING THE SAME TYPE

                    OF SERVICES THAT FIREFIGHTERS THROUGH THE CITY OF ROCHESTER AND ALL THE

                    TOWNS IN MONROE COUNTY.  IN THOSE INSTANCES, THOSE FIREFIGHTERS, IF THEY

                    FALL ILL OR ARE INJURED WHILE PERFORMING THEIR DUTIES OF FIREFIGHTERS ARE

                    AFFORDED VARIOUS TYPES OF DISABILITY BENEFITS TO GET THEM THROUGH THEIR

                    ILLNESS AND THEIR DISABILITY.  AND ALL THIS BILL WILL DO IS PROVIDE THOSE

                    SAME TYPE OF DISABILITY BENEFITS FOR FIREFIGHTERS WHO PERFORM THE SAME

                    TYPE OF SERVICES AT OUR COUNTY AIRPORT.

                                 AND SO, THIS IS A MATTER OF PARITY AND IT'S ALSO, AS MY

                    COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT, THAT THERE ARE ONLY A FEW FIREFIGHTERS AT THESE

                    COUNTY AIRPORTS AND, YOU KNOW, ONLY WHEN THEY ACTUALLY RECEIVE AN

                    INJURY WILL IT KICK IN.  SO, THE COST IS -- IS NOT SIGNIFICANT AND WHEN

                    THERE IS A COST, OFTENTIMES THAT WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE FEES CHARGED AT

                    THE AIRPORT, ALBEIT THOSE OPERATIONS ARE AT A REDUCED LEVEL GIVEN

                                         31



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    COVID-19.  BUT ALL THAT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, HAVING PARITY OF

                    FIREFIGHTERS PERFORMING THE SAME DUTIES IS VERY IMPORTANT AND I

                    ENCOURAGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU,

                    MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    BRONSON.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    WOULD YOU PLEASE RECORD MR. WALCZYK IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS

                    LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU, SIR -- MA'AM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08142-E, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 174, HYNDMAN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW.

                                 OH.  I APOLOGIZE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  PAGE 5, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 180.  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08482, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 180, OTIS, ABINANTI, SIMON, SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

                    PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING LANDLORDS TO MITIGATE DAMAGES

                    WHEN COMMERCIAL TENANTS VACATE PREMISES IN VIOLATION OF THE TERMS OF

                    THE LEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                                         32



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    SECTION.

                                 OH, SORRY.

                                 MR. GOODELL HAS REQUESTED AN EXPLANATION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  YOU'RE WELCOME.

                                 MR. OTIS:  THANK YOU.  THIS -- THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL.  THIS LEGISLATION RESTORES THE DUTY TO MITIGATE MINIMIZED

                    DAMAGES IN THE CASE WHERE A COMMERCIAL TENANT HAS LEFT THEIR LEASE

                    EARLY AND IT PUTS THE BURDEN ON THE LANDLORD TO TRY AND MAKE REASONABLE

                    ATTEMPT TO RELEASE THE PROPERTY AND MINIMIZE DAMAGES.  THIS RESTORES

                    THE LAW THAT WAS THE LAW IN NEW YORK STATE BEFORE 1995.  IT ALSO TRACKS

                    LEGISLATION WE PASSED LAST YEAR RELATING TO RESIDENTIAL LEASES WHERE WE

                    MADE THE SAME CHANGE.  THIS BILL AMENDS THAT SECTION OF LAW AND ADDS

                    COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES TO IT, AS WELL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 MR. OTIS:  OF COURSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. OTIS.  AS YOU

                    NOTED, THIS BILL APPLIES ONLY TO COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES.  AND TYPICALLY

                    IN COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES -- NOT ALWAYS, BUT TYPICALLY THE PARTIES ARE

                                         33



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    REPRESENTED BY ATTORNEYS.  IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE CURRENT LAW THAT

                    WOULD PRECLUDE THE PARTIES, WHEN NEGOTIATING THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS

                    OF A LEASE, COMMERCIAL LEASE, TO INCLUDE IN THE LEASE AN OBLIGATION OF

                    THE LANDLORD TO MITIGATE DAMAGES?

                                 MR. OTIS:  YES.  THE -- THE LAW THAT WE'RE AMENDING

                    HAS A PROVISION THAT SAYS THAT ANY PROVISION IN A LEASE THAT EXEMPTS A

                    LANDLORD'S DUTY TO MITIGATE DAMAGES UNDER THIS SECTION SHALL BE VOID AS

                    CONTRARY TO PUBLIC POLICY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND UNDER CURRENT LAW, IS THERE

                    ANYTHING THAT WOULD PREVENT THE PARTIES, AS PART OF THE COMMERCIAL

                    NEGOTIATION, FROM IMPOSING ON THE LANDLORD A DUTY TO MITIGATE AS PART

                    OF THE CONTRACT UNDER CURRENT LAW?

                                 MR. OTIS:  WELL, LET ME -- LET ME ANSWER -- UNDER

                    CURRENT LAW, THEY COULD HAVE THAT KIND OF LEASE PROVISION.  BUT LET'S TALK

                    TO THE LARGER PUBLIC POLICY ISSUE HERE, WHICH IS, WE -- TWO THINGS ARE

                    GOING ON HERE:  NUMBER ONE IS IN MOST STATES AND HISTORICALLY IN NEW

                    YORK STATE, THE DUTY TO MINIMIZE DAMAGES IS A LONGSTANDING PRINCIPLE

                    IN LAW AND IS GOOD PUBLIC POLICY.  IN THIS CASE, WHAT WE REALLY DON'T

                    WANT TO HAVE WHICH THE CURRENT LAW ALLOWS IS A VACANT SPACE THAT IS LEFT

                    VACANT WHERE THERE'S NO INCENTIVE FOR THE LANDLORD TO GET A NEW TENANT

                    IN THERE.  THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR OTHER BUSINESSES, THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR

                    COMMERCIAL AREAS WHERE EMPTY SPACES SOMETIMES AVALANCHE AND

                    MULTIPLY ON EACH OTHER.

                                 WE HAVE ANOTHER ISSUE THAT IS AT PLAY HERE BECAUSE OF

                    THE COVID CRISIS.  WE HAVE BUSINESSES THAT ARE DOWNSIZING, MAYBE

                                         34



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    REDUCING THE NUMBER OF LOCATIONS, WE HAVE SOME BUSINESS FAILURES.

                    AND WHAT THIS BILL WOULD -- WOULD PUT BACK INTO THE LAW IS THE GOOD

                    FAITH OBLIGATION OF A LANDLORD TO TRY AND FILL THE SPACE.  IF THEY CAN'T,

                    THEY DON'T HAVE TO, BUT IT MAY MEAN THAT THE BUSINESS THAT DOWNSIZED, IF

                    IT TAKES AWAY SOME OF THE COST THAT THEY MAY HAVE TO INCUR IF THEY'RE

                    FULLY OBLIGATED TO PAY THE FULL LEASE AMOUNT BECAUSE THERE'S NO

                    OBLIGATION ON THE LANDLORD TO FILL IT, IT MAY KEEP THAT BUSINESS

                    ENTERPRISE AFLOAT BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO REDUCE THEIR COSTS BECAUSE THE

                    LANDLORD MINIMIZED DAMAGES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OF COURSE, THE FLIP SIDE IS THAT THE

                    LANDLORD MAY END UP WITH A VACANT PROPERTY AND AN AFFIRMATIVE DUTY TO

                    RE-RENT IT THAT IS EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT DURING THE COVID CRISIS.  BUT

                    LET ME ASK A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION:  AS YOU KNOW, OFTENTIMES IN

                    COMMERCIAL LEASES, THE PARTIES ARE UNSURE OF THE AMOUNT OF THE

                    DAMAGES THAT MIGHT OCCUR IF THERE'S A BREACH OF THE AGREEMENT AND SO

                    THEY INCLUDE A LIQUIDATED DAMAGE CLAUSE.  AND IT BASICALLY SAYS IF YOU

                    VIOLATE THIS AGREEMENT, WE AGREE IN ADVANCE THAT THE DAMAGES MAY BE

                    DIFFICULT TO CALCULATE AND, THEREFORE, IF YOU BREACH THE AGREEMENT, YOU

                    AGREE TO PAY X DOLLARS IN LIQUIDATED DAMAGES.  WOULD THIS NEW

                    LEGISLATION PRECLUDE A LIQUIDATED DAMAGE CLAUSE?

                                 MR. OTIS:  THE VIEW IS THAT IT WOULD NOT -- IT WOULD

                    NOT PREVENT A LIQUIDATED DAMAGES CLAUSE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO THE LIQUIDATED DAMAGE CLAUSE,

                    IN ESSENCE, COULD SUPERSEDE THE DUTY TO MITIGATE BECAUSE IT WOULD BE

                    AN ALTERNATIVE REMEDY.

                                         35



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. OTIS:  BUT WHAT THEY'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO DO

                    IS THEY'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE REASONABLE EFFORTS, GOOD FAITH

                    EFFORTS THAT ARE REASONABLE AND CUSTOMARY FOR THAT LANDLORD TO TRY AND

                    RENT THE PROPERTY.  AND THAT'S REALLY ALL WE'RE ASKING.  IF THEY HAVE AN

                    UNSATISFACTORY OFFER FROM A NEW TENANT, THEY DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT IT.  IF

                    THEY HAVE A RENT THAT IS BELOW MARKET VALUE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO -- THEY

                    DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THAT TENANT.  SO, WE'RE NOT -- THIS IS NOT OVERLY

                    BURDENSOME ON LANDLORDS.  IT IS -- DOES TAKE AWAY THE INCENTIVE FOR

                    THEM TO JUST SIT ON THE PROPERTY AND -- AND GET THE RENT FROM THE TENANT

                    THAT HAD THE BUSINESS PROBLEM AND HAD TO LEAVE.  AND I THINK THAT IT IS

                    GOOD POLICY.  YOU KNOW, WHEN WE ALL TOOK TORT LAW IN LAW SCHOOL, THE

                    DUTY TO MINIMIZE WAS ONE OF THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF GOOD POLICY AND

                    LOGIC IN ALL OF -- ALL OF TORT LAW.  AND SO, WE HAD AN UNUSUAL COURT

                    DECISION IN 1995 IN NEW YORK STATE WHERE THAT WAS THROWN OUT IN

                    THESE CIRCUMSTANCES AND WE REASSERTED THE OLD LAW FOR RESIDENTIAL LAST

                    YEAR AND I -- I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN DO IT FOR COMMERCIAL THIS YEAR.

                    BUT I THINK THIS IS GOOD FOR COMMERCE BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO RAISE THE

                    CHANCES OF THESE PROPERTIES ARE GOING BACK ON THE MARKET.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OF COURSE, IN A COMMERCIAL CONTEXT

                    OFTEN THE LEASES ARE MUCH, MUCH MORE COMPLEX.  I MEAN, I'VE SEEN

                    RESIDENTIAL LEASES THAT WERE A COUPLE OF PAGES LONG AND COMMERCIAL

                    LEASES THAT WERE ALMOST LIKE A SMALL BOOK.  AND OFTEN IN A COMMERCIAL

                    LEASE CONTEXT, PARTICULARLY IN A MALL CONTEXT OR A STRIP MALL OR A -- A

                    MULTI-TENANT COMMERCIAL OPERATION, THERE ARE MULTIPLE COMPETING

                    FACTORS.  FOR EXAMPLE, IN A MALL, THEY MAY HAVE RESTRICTIONS ON HOW

                                         36



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    MANY SHOE STORES ARE IN THE MALL, OR WHAT TYPE OF STORES.  OFTEN THERE'S

                    CAPITALIZATION REQUIREMENTS, TENANT INVESTMENTS THAT ARE PART OF THE

                    OVERALL COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT.  SO UNLIKE REAL ESTATE THAT INVOLVES

                    RESIDENTIAL WHERE IF A PERSON IS, YOU KNOW, AN INDIVIDUAL AND THEY'RE

                    JUST USING IT AS THEIR RESIDENCE, WHICH IS RELATIVELY EASY, IT CAN BE VERY,

                    VERY COMPLICATED IN THE COMMERCIAL CONTEXT.  DOES THE LANGUAGE OF THE

                    STATUTE REFLECT THE FACT THAT THE LANDLORD MAY BE UNDER CONTRACTUAL

                    OBLIGATIONS TO THE OTHER TENANTS THAT SEVERELY RESTRICT WHO HE CAN PUT IN

                    A VACANT SPOT?

                                 MR. OTIS:  THE LANGUAGE IN THE LAW WOULD NOT

                    ENCUMBER ANY OF THOSE DUTIES, RESPONSIBILITIES, POLICIES, VALUES.  THE

                    LANGUAGE, GOOD FAITH, AND ACCORDING TO THE LANDLORD'S RESEARCHES AND

                    ABILITIES TAKE REASONABLE AND CUSTOMARY ACTIONS.  SO IF YOU'RE IN A

                    SITUATION, THE MALL SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE ONLY GOING TO HAVE TWO SHOE

                    STORES, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO TAKE A THIRD SHOE STORE.  THEY WOULD

                    HAVE -- FOLLOW THEIR REASONABLE AND CUSTOMARY PRACTICES.  I THINK FOR

                    THAT QUESTION WE CAN BE COMFORTABLE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT FOR MANY

                    YEARS THERE WAS AN OBLIGATION TO MITIGATE DAMAGE, BUT THAT OBLIGATION

                    WAS AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE, RIGHT, THAT HAD TO BE RAISED BY THE PERSON

                    WHO WAS BREACHING THE LEASE, AND IT WAS THE BURDEN OF PROOF OF THE

                    PERSON WHO WAS BREACHING THE LEASE TO ESTABLISH THAT THE LANDLORD

                    COULD HAVE MITIGATED DAMAGES.  THIS REVERSES THAT BURDEN OF PROOF,

                    DOESN'T IT?

                                 MR. OTIS:  WELL, THE -- THE BURDEN UNDER THE LAW THAT

                                         37



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    WAS PASSED LAST YEAR PLACES THE BURDEN ON THOSE SEEKING TO RECOVER

                    DAMAGES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO NOW WE HAVE THE BURDEN OF

                    PROOF ON THE PARTY THAT'S NOT VIOLATING THE CONTRACT, RATHER THAN THE

                    BURDEN OF PROOF BEING ON THE PARTY THAT'S VIOLATING THE CONTRACT --

                                 MR. OTIS:  WELL, THE BURDEN --

                                 MR. GOODELL:  -- ISN'T THAT BACKWARDS?  AND I

                    UNDERSTAND THAT WE DID IT FOR RESIDENTIAL, BECAUSE OFTEN THERE'S DIFFERENT

                    NEGOTIATING POWER AND DIFFERENT RESOURCES, BUT WHY WOULD WE DO THAT

                    IN A COMMERCIAL CONTEXT?

                                 MR. OTS:  I DON'T SEE A DIFFERENCE.  I THINK THAT THE

                    BURDEN OF PROOF SHOULD BE ON THE ONE THAT'S GOING TO COURT OR THE ONE

                    THAT IS TRYING TO COLLECT DAMAGES.  AND I -- I DON'T THINK IT'S ACTUALLY THAT

                    HIGH A BURDEN TO SATISFY IF THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE THE CASE.  AND I -- I

                    THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE LAW, WHEN IT WAS PASSED LAST YEAR,

                    THREW SOME OF THIS INTO THE LAP OF THE COURT, AND THE -- THE JUDGES THAT

                    HAVE THIS BEFORE THEM I THINK WILL BE WISE AND WILL -- WILL SORT OUT THE

                    DETAILS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, THERE'S NOTHING UNDER CURRENT

                    LAW, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN - THAT I WANT TO CHECK WITH YOU - THAT WOULD

                    PREVENT A COMMERCIAL TENANT FROM RESERVING THE RIGHT TO SUBLEASE,

                    SUBJECT TO WHATEVER RESTRICTIONS THE LANDLORD MIGHT HAVE.  AM I CORRECT

                    THAT NORMALLY THERE'S NOTHING IN THE CURRENT LAW THAT WOULD PREVENT A

                    TENANT FROM HAVING THE OPTION TO SUBLEASE?

                                 MR. OTIS:  WELL, I THINK UNDER THE VARIOUS SCENARIOS,

                                         38



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    IF YOU HAVE A TENANT THAT LEFT AND ASSUMED THAT OBLIGATION TO SUBLEASE,

                    THEY WOULD STILL BE OBLIGATED UNLESS THEY WERE SOMEHOW GOING TO TRY

                    AND FIND A WAY TO GET OUT OF THAT OBLIGATION THAT WAS IN THE LEASE.  SO,

                    THEY, IN A SENSE, IF THEY LEFT, BUT THEY ARE STILL GOING TO TRY AND SATISFY

                    THE SUBLEASE RESPONSIBILITIES THEY SIGNED ON TO, I WOULD THINK THAT THEY

                    WOULD STILL BE SO OBLIGATED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO THEN MY QUESTION IS IF THE

                    COMMERCIAL LEASE GIVES THE LANDLORD -- I'M SORRY, IF A COMMERCIAL LEASE

                    GIVES THE TENANT THE RIGHT TO SUBLEASE, CAN THE TENANT BREACH THE LEASE,

                    REFUSE TO SUBLEASE -- I MEAN, DECLINES, JUST WALK AWAY, AND STILL AVAIL

                    THEMSELVES OF THE DUTY TO MITIGATE BY THE LANDLORD?

                                 MR. OTIS:  I THINK ON THAT, PROBABLY THEY WILL SEE

                    EACH OTHER IN COURT AND A JUDGE WILL DECIDE HOW TO IRON THAT OUT SINCE

                    THE -- THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS ENACTED LAST YEAR WAS NOT AT THAT LEVEL OF

                    PRECISION THAT I'M GOING TO KNOW WHAT THAT OUTCOME'S GOING TO BE.  A

                    JUDGE IS GOING TO DECIDE THAT QUESTION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. OTIS.  I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, AS ALWAYS.

                                 ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  UNDER CURRENT LAW, IN THE

                    COMMERCIAL CONTEXT, THE PARTIES ARE FREE TO PUT IN THE LEASE AGREEMENT

                    THAT THE LANDLORD WILL MITIGATE DAMAGES IF THE TENANT BREACHES THE

                    LEASE.  THEY CAN PUT THAT IN UNDER CURRENT LAW.  THIS LAW ELIMINATES THE

                                         39



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    OPTION OF LEAVING THAT CLAUSE OUT AND IT SHIFTS THE BURDEN OF PROOF FROM

                    A TENANT WHO IS BREACHING THE LEASE, WHO IS VIOLATING THE LEASE, WHO

                    MAY BE CAUSING DAMAGE TO THE OTHER TENANTS BY LEAVING BECAUSE THEY

                    NO LONGER BRING THE BUSINESS IN THAT THE MALL NEEDS TO SURVIVE, IT

                    REMOVES ANY RESPONSIBILITY ON THE PART OF THE TENANT TO MITIGATE

                    DAMAGES, AND PLACES THAT RESPONSIBILITY ON THE NON-BREACHING,

                    INNOCENT LANDLORD.  AND IT RAISES INTO QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT A

                    LIQUIDATED DAMAGE CLAUSE WILL STILL REMAIN ENFORCEABLE, EVEN THOUGH

                    THE PARTIES AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS AGREEMENT SIGNED ON TO A LIQUIDATED

                    DAMAGE CLAUSE.  AND IT RAISES PROBLEMS FOR THE OTHER TENANTS, BECAUSE

                    IF YOU'RE A TENANT IN A MALL OR A STRIP MALL OR A BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT,

                    PART OF THE REASON YOU'RE THERE IS BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER STOREFRONTS

                    THAT ARE OPEN.  AND THE OTHER STOREFRONTS ARE BUILDING THAT -- THAT FLOW

                    OF TRAFFIC THAT HELPS YOU.  AND SO, SOME OF THE LEASE AGREEMENTS, BY THE

                    WAY, ALSO TIE INTO HOW MUCH REVENUE TENANTS ARE GETTING, OTHER TENANTS.

                    SO, YOU MAY HAVE A BASE LEASE AND A PERCENTAGE OF YOUR GROSS REVENUE.

                                 SO, THE DAMAGES IN A COMMERCIAL CONTEXT FOR THE

                    LANDLORD CAN GO WAY BEYOND ONE LEASE.  IT MAY AFFECT THE REVENUES

                    FROM THE OTHER LEASES.  AND IN A COMMERCIAL CONTEXT, THE LANDLORD

                    OFTEN USES THOSE LEASE AGREEMENTS AS SECURITY FOR THE COMMERCIAL

                    MORTGAGE.  AND THEY RUN THE RISK WHEN A TENANT VACATES IN VIOLATION OF

                    THE LEASE AGREEMENT THAT IT MAY CONSTITUTE A DEFAULT UNDER THEIR OVERALL

                    COMMERCIAL MORTGAGE.  SO, THAT RAMIFICATIONS THAT GO WAY, WAY BEYOND

                    A SIMPLE RESIDENTIAL LEASE WHERE YOU HAVE A TENANT WHO IS PAYING THE

                    MONTHLY RENT, AND THE COMMERCIAL LEASE, MUCH MORE COMPLICATED OR

                                         40



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    CAN BE, OFTEN WITH LAWYERS, OFTEN WITH FINANCIAL RAMIFICATIONS THAT GO

                    WAY BEYOND ONE PARTICULAR STOREFRONT AND AFFECTS MULTIPLE OTHER STORES,

                    THE FINANCING AND THE CAPABILITIES OF THE PARTIES.  AND THIS LAW NOT ONLY

                    VIOLATES THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION WHICH SAYS YOU CANNOT IMPAIR THE

                    VALIDITY OF EXISTING LAWS, AND THIS ACTUALLY SAYS EXISTING CLAUSES IN A

                    CONTRACT THAT DISAGREE WITH IT ARE INVALID, SO THAT'S A DIRECT

                    CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION, BUT IT UPTURNS THE SITUATION THAT WE CURRENTLY

                    HAVE WHEREIN A COMMERCIAL CONTEXT, THE TENANT, REPRESENTED BY A

                    LAWYER, AND THE LANDLORD, REPRESENTED BY A LAWYER, CAN NEGOTIATE THE

                    TERMS AND CONDITIONS THAT THEY BOTH AGREE TO UP FRONT.

                                 WHILE I APPRECIATE THE DESIRE OF MY COLLEAGUE TO

                    MITIGATE DAMAGES, IN THE COMMERCIAL CONTEXT THE LANDLORD IS DOING

                    EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO MITIGATE DAMAGES BECAUSE THEY HAVE SO MUCH

                    ELSE ON THE LINE, WE SHOULD NOT INTERCEDE AND REGULATE COMMERCIAL

                    TRANSACTIONS IN VIOLATION OF WHAT THE PARTIES THEMSELVES HAVE AGREED TO

                    AND, THEREFORE, I'LL BE RECOMMENDING THAT MY COLLEAGUES VOTE NO.

                    THANK YOU, SIR AND THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE, MR. OTIS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR.  OTIS.

                                 MR. OTIS:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU FOR YOUR -- YOUR

                    COMMENTS.  I WOULD THINK -- I COME TO A DIFFERENT CONCLUSION IN TERMS

                    OF -- IN TERMS OF HOW THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT THE LANDLORD WITH THOSE

                    OTHER FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES.  BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THERE IS A -- NO

                    DUTY TO TRY AND RELEASE THE PROPERTY.  THAT LANDLORD MAY OR MAY NOT GET

                    THAT REVENUE.  OTHER STORES, WHETHER IT'S IN A MALL OR IN A -- A -- OTHER

                    KIND OF COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT WHERE THERE ARE NEIGHBORING STORES,

                                         41



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THEY ARE PUT MORE AT RISK WITH THE EMPTY STOREFRONT.  I ACTUALLY THINK

                    THAT BY TAKING AWAY THE DISINCENTIVE TO TRY AND FIND A NEW TENANT, WE

                    ARE HELPING THE -- THE LANDLORDS' FINANCES AS WELL AS WHATEVER LENDING

                    OBLIGATIONS AND OTHER KINDS OF OBLIGATIONS TO OTHER TENANTS.

                                 SO I THINK THIS IS GOOD PUBLIC POLICY.  I THINK THAT AS IT

                    RELATES TO VOIDING THOSE KINDS OF LEASE CLAUSES -- LAST YEAR WE PASSED

                    ANOTHER PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT -- THAT THIS MEMBER ALSO SPONSORED

                    THAT GOT SIGNED INTO LAW, THAT WE -- WE TOOK AWAY THE ABILITY TO PUT INTO

                    COMMERCIAL LEASES THE ABILITY TO HAVE A -- A CLAUSE SAID THAT A

                    COMMERCIAL TENANT WHEN THROWN OUT OF A PROPERTY WOULD LOSE THEIR DAY

                    IN COURT, WHICH WAS A COMMON LEASE PROVISION THAT LANDLORDS PUT IN

                    AND -- AND TENANTS AGREED TO.  WE ELIMINATED THAT AND RESTORED WHAT

                    HAD BEEN THE LAW IN NEW YORK STATE FOR 50 YEARS BECAUSE WE SAID IT

                    WAS AGAINST PUBLIC POLICY.  AND WE'RE DOING A SIMILAR THING HERE, AND

                    THE ISSUES ARE SOMEWHAT INTERRELATED.  BUT I THANK YOU FOR YOUR -- YOUR

                    WISE COMMENT AND ANALYSIS AND -- AND GOOD WORK ON ALL ISSUES THAT

                    YOU BRING GOOD IDEAS TO THE FLOOR ON.  THANK YOU, MR. GOODELL.

                                 AND I'LL BE VOTING AYE ON MY BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PHILLIP STECK.

                                 MR. STECK:  MR. SPEAKER, VERY BRIEFLY ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. STECK:  I WOULD JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THIS

                    IS EXCELLENT LEGISLATION AND I COMMEND THE SPONSOR.  THE DUTY TO

                    MITIGATE DAMAGE IS TO SPREAD ALL ACROSS THE LAW -- FOR EXAMPLE, AN

                    EMPLOYEE WHO IS THE VICTIM OF THE MOST HEINOUS FORM OF

                                         42



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    DISCRIMINATION IS STILL REQUIRED TO GO OUT AND MITIGATE DAMAGES BY

                    OBTAINING SUBSTITUTE EMPLOYMENT.  TO SUGGEST THAT A LANDLORD --

                    BECAUSE THE LANDLORD IS THE VICTIM OF SOMEONE BREAKING THE LEASE

                    WOULD NOT HAVE THE SAME DUTY DOES NOT SEEM COMMENSURATE TO OTHER

                    SITUATIONS IN THE LAW.  SECOND, WITH RESPECT TO THE ISSUE OF LIQUIDATED

                    DAMAGES, AS MY LEARNED COLLEAGUE IS WELL AWARE, THE PARTIES CANNOT

                    SIMPLY SET A FIGURE FOR LIQUIDATED DAMAGES.  LIQUIDATED DAMAGES HAS TO

                    BEAR A RELATIONSHIP TO ACTUAL DAMAGES OR IT'S NOT ENFORCEABLE BY THE

                    COURTS.  SO IN REQUIRING THE LANDLORD TO MITIGATE, THAT IS A FACTOR IN

                    DETERMINING WHETHER A LIQUIDATED DAMAGES CLAUSE IS A -- A CORRECT OR

                    REASONABLE APPROXIMATION OF THAT ACTUAL DAMAGES.  OBVIOUSLY, IF THE

                    LANDLORD CAN GO OUT AND MITIGATE QUITE EASILY, YOU DON'T GET A DOUBLE

                    RECOVERY.  YOU DON'T GET TO RELET THE PREMISES AND YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE

                    YOUR LIQUIDATED DAMAGES AND EAT THAT CAKE AS WELL.

                                 FINALLY, I -- I REALLY HAVE TO AGAIN POINT OUT AN ERROR IN

                    ALWAYS RAISING THIS ISSUE ABOUT THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT

                    -- OR PROHIBITION, I SHOULD SAY, ON THE IMPAIRMENT OF OBLIGATION OF

                    CONTRACTS.  THAT CLAUSE IN THE CONSTITUTION DEALS WITH WHEN THE -- A

                    PRIVATE PERSON HAS A CONTRACT WITH, SAY, THE STATE OF NEW YORK OR

                    ANOTHER GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY, AND BY LEGISLATIVE ACTION WE WOULD

                    EXEMPT OURSELVES OR THE STATE OR MUNICIPALITIES FROM ABIDING BY A

                    CONTRACT.  IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE -- WITH THE ABILITY OF

                    THIS LEGISLATURE TO REGULATE PRIVATE CONTRACTS.  YOU KNOW, BACK IN THE

                    DAYS BEFORE FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT WAS PRESIDENT THERE WERE FOUR

                    EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE JUSTICES OF THE SUPREME COURT THAT -- THAT WERE

                                         43



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    KNOWN AS THE "FOUR HORSEMEN."  AND THE FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE

                    APOCALYPSE USED TO VOID ANY ACTION OF GOVERNMENT TO HELP THE PUBLIC

                    ON THE GROUNDS OF SO-CALLED "FREEDOM OF CONTRACT."  WELL, THAT IS AN

                    OUTDATED 19TH CENTURY PRINCIPLE OF LAW.  IT HAS NO APPLICATION HERE,

                    AND NOWHERE IN OUR CONSTITUTION OR THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION DO THE

                    WORDS "FREEDOM OF CONTRACT" APPLY.  I -- THIS BILL DOES NOT IN ANY WAY

                    IMPAIR THE OBLIGATION OF CONTRACTS BEING ENTERED INTO BY THE STATE OR ITS

                    MUNICIPALITIES.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    RULES REPORT NO. 180.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO

                    BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  IF

                    THERE ARE MEMBERS WHO WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, PLEASE

                    CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 MR. OTIS.

                                         44



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. OTIS:  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING

                    GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL.  IF THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS, PLEASE CALL THE

                    NUMBER THAT YOU WERE GIVEN EARLIER.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MR. OTIS.

                    SO NOTED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND FOR FINISHING WHAT WE STARTED TO WORK ON LAST

                    YEAR.  I WAS HAPPY TO WORK ON THAT BILL LAST YEAR, AND MANY TIMES IN THE

                    LEGISLATURE YOU TAKE ONE STEP FIRST BEFORE YOU TAKE TWO, AND I FEEL LIKE

                    THIS IS THE SECOND STEP IN MAKING A MORE FAIR AND EQUITABLE PROCESS OUT

                    THERE.  THIS IS A SIMPLE EQUITABLE CONCEPT, WHICH IS THAT IF YOU'RE A

                    LANDLORD AND A TENANT LEAVES AND NOW WHETHER THEY'RE A RESIDENTIAL OR A

                    COMMERCIAL TENANT, YOU HAVE TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO RELET THE

                    PREMISES.  YOU CAN'T SIT BACK AND RUN UP DAMAGES.  NOW WHEN WE TALK

                    ABOUT COMMERCIAL LEASES, CERTAINLY, SURE, THERE MAY BE AND THERE ARE

                    LARGE CORPORATIONS WITH LAWYERS THAT ARE PROBABLY ON STAFF THAT ARE

                    NEGOTIATING VERY COMPLICATED TERMS.  I WOULD STILL SAY FOR THOSE

                    TRANSACTIONS, EQUITY SHOULD BE THE RULE OF NEW YORK STATE.  HOWEVER,

                    LET'S ALSO REMEMBER THAT THERE ARE COMMERCIAL TENANTS ACROSS THIS STATE

                    THAT ARE MOM-AND-POP STORES, THAT ARE SMALL BUSINESSES THAT DON'T HAVE

                    PEOPLE ON STAFF THAT ARE NEGOTIATING LEASES AND ARE OFTEN BEHIND THE

                                         45



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    EIGHT BALL AS THEY TRY TO NEGOTIATE THINGS.  AND ESPECIALLY NOW, IN A

                    TIME OF GREAT TREPIDATION, FOR BUSINESSES AND SMALL BUSINESSES ACROSS

                    THIS STATE, I THINK WE SHOULD BE DOING EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO MAKE SURE

                    THAT NEW YORK LAW IS AS EQUITABLE AS POSSIBLE SO THAT NOBODY IS

                    RUNNING INTO A SITUATION IF -- IF -- IF THEIR BUSINESS IS UNABLE TO SURVIVE

                    THAT THEY MIGHT BE HIT WITH ADDITIONAL DAMAGES BECAUSE A LANDLORD IS

                    NOT GOING OUT AND TAKING REASONABLE STEPS TO MITIGATE THOSE DAMAGES.

                                 I WOULD ENCOURAGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  THIS IS JUST SUCH A COMMONSENSE, EQUITABLE BILL, AND ONCE

                    AGAIN, I THANK THE SPONSOR.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ZEBROWSKI IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I RISE TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WANT TO JUST THANK THE SPONSOR FOR PUTTING FORWARD

                    THIS REALLY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  AND I THINK THE DISCUSSION

                    WE JUST HAD REALLY MISSED A CRITICAL POINT.  THE CRITICAL POINT IS ABOUT

                    POWER.  IN A NEGOTIATION BETWEEN A COMMERCIAL LANDLORD AND A

                    COMMERCIAL POWER -- TENANT, THERE'S AN IMBALANCE OF POWER.  AND IN

                    THESE NEGOTIATIONS I'VE SEEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN THE LANDLORD'S

                    BASICALLY SAYING, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.  THE TENANT HAS VERY LITTLE POWER

                    TO NEGOTIATE.  THIS IS AN ATTEMPT BY NEW YORK STATE TO REBALANCE THIS

                    IMBALANCE OF POWER TO SAY TO THE TENANT, WHO ALMOST ALWAYS HAS NO

                    CHOICE, YOU HAVE A LITTLE OPTION HERE.  WE'RE GOING TO FORCE MITIGATION

                    ON THE LANDLORD, OTHERWISE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FORCE IT DOWN YOUR

                                         46



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THROAT.  IN MY DISTRICT THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, WHERE COMMERCIAL

                    TENANTS ARE JUST SAID, THIS IS THE LEASE.  YOU HAVE TO TAKE EVERY LITTLE

                    PIECE AND THERE'S NO CHOICE.  HERE, NEW YORK STATE IS STANDING UP FOR

                    THE LITTLE GUY, LIKE WE SHOULD BE.

                                 I APPLAUD THE SPONSOR AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES

                    TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. -- MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  PLEASE

                    RECORD MR. LIPETRI, MR. DIPIETRO AND MR. WALCZYK IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MR. OTIS.

                                 MR. OTIS:  PLEASE RECORD MR. SANTABARBARA, MR.

                    BRAUNSTEIN, MS. BUTTENSCHON AND MRS. GUNTHER IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08511-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 181, EPSTEIN, D'URSO, REYES, MOSLEY, GOTTFRIED,

                    SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE COUNTY LAW AND THE NEW YORK CITY

                                         47



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    CHARTER, IN RELATION TO THE DOCKETING OF ADJUDICATIONS OF CERTAIN

                    VIOLATIONS OF LAWS ENFORCED BY THE NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF

                    CONSUMER AFFAIRS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. EPSTEIN.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS IS AN

                    IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT ALLOWS THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER

                    AFFAIRS ON THE LIMITED NUMBER OF CASES TO HAVE DOCKETING AUTHORITY TO

                    BRING JUDGMENTS AGAINST PEOPLE WHO STEAL, OWE THESE WORKERS MONEY.

                    ANYTHING RELATED TO RESTITUTION.  THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE CITY HAS

                    REQUESTED, AND I'M PROUD TO BE STANDING HERE.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. EPSTEIN.  RIGHT

                    NOW, THE -- THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS CAN BRING ACTIONS ON

                    BEHALF OF CONSUMERS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  SO, I -- I'LL EXPLAIN THE PROCESS TO

                    YOU, MR. GOODELL, IF YOU'D LIKE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

                                         48



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  SO, AN EXAMPLE IS I'M A WORKER AND I

                    WORK IN A -- IN A STORE AND THEY'VE STOLEN MY WAGES.  I HAVEN'T -- I'VE

                    WORKED FOR A MONTH AND I GET NO PAY.  I CAN FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS.  THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER

                    AFFAIRS WILL BRING AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEEDING BEFORE THE

                    ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER CALLED OATH.  AT THAT HEARING THEY

                    WILL SEEK RESTITUTION FOR ME FOR MY BACK WAGES.  THEY'LL -- THEY'LL GET

                    AN AWARD FROM OATH.  LET'S SAY THEY -- WE'VE GOT $5,000 IN BACK

                    WAGES.  OATH WILL THEN HAVE THAT DECISION.  THE PERSON WHO THEY GOT

                    -- THE BUSINESS OWNER WHO THEY GOT THE DECISION AGAINST COULD FILE AN

                    ARTICLE 78 IF THEY WANTED TO.  IF THEY DON'T, THEN WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN IS

                    CURRENTLY THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS WOULD HAVE TO THEN

                    COMMENCE A SUPREME COURT ACTION IN STATE SUPREME COURT AGAIN WITH

                    THE SAME ALLEGATIONS AND THE SAME FACTS TO TRY TO REDUCE THAT TO A

                    JUDGMENT TO THEN BE ABLE TO GIVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET A JUDGMENT

                    SO I CAN GET A REWARD.  CURRENTLY UNDER THE SITUATION, LESS THAN 1

                    PERCENT OF THE AMOUNT THAT THEY'RE SEEKING FOR PEOPLE LIKE THE

                    INDIVIDUAL I TALKED ABOUT ARE GETTING THE MONEY THAT THEY'RE ENTITLED TO,

                    AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS SPEED UP THE PROCESS AND ALLOW THAT

                    HEARING AT OATH TO RESULT IN A JUDGMENT, THEN -- THEN PEOPLE CAN

                    COLLECT THEIR BACK WAGES.  THIS IS A CONSUMER-DIRECTED APPROACH FROM

                    THE CITY'S DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS WHO IS FULLY BEHIND THIS

                    BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO IN OTHER WORDS, INSTEAD OF

                    HAVING A JUDGMENT RENDERED BY A COURT, A JUDICIAL OFFICER, YOU WOULD --

                                         49



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THIS BILL WOULD AUTHORIZE AN ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING TO HAVE THE SAME

                    POWERS OF A COURT JUDGE TO IMPOSE A JUDGMENT?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  WHAT HAPPENS AT THE ADMINISTRATIVE

                    HEARING WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN BEFORE AN ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE LIKE IT

                    CURRENTLY DOES.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WILL BE IS AT THE END OF THAT

                    HEARING WITH -- UNLESS THERE'S AN APPEAL, THE -- THE MONEY WILL BE

                    ENTERED AS A JUDGMENT WHICH IT CAN BE COLLECTED ON.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, I'M FAMILIAR WITH HOW JUDGES

                    ARE APPOINTED AND THERE'S CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF

                    QUALIFICATIONS FOR JUDGES.  HOW ARE THESE ADMINISTRATIVE -- THEY'RE NOT

                    ELECTED, ARE THEY?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THEY'RE APPOINTED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THEY'RE APPOINTED.  AND WHO

                    APPOINTS THEM?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THE -- THE CITY DOES, THE MAYOR

                    DOES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  SO YOU HAVE THE CITY

                    APPOINTING ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGES --

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  -- NOT ELECTED.  AND THEN THOSE

                    CITY-APPOINTED ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGES ARE HEARING ACTIONS BROUGHT BY A

                    CITY AGENCY?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  ON BEHALF OF CONSUMERS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  RIGHT.  ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE

                    THEY REPRESENT.  AND YOU WANT TO NOW GIVE THE CITY-APPOINTED HEARING

                                         50



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    OFFICERS THE SAME LEGAL AUTHORITY AS A JUDGE, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT

                    SUBJECT TO THE SAME CRITERIA AS JUDGES ARE IN TERMS OF THEIR SELECTION.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  WELL, I THINK YOU'RE MISSING TWO

                    MAIN POINTS, MR. GOODELL, AND I JUST WANT TO REITERATE.  ONE IS, THE

                    OATH HEARING OFFICER, IS AN INDEPENDENT AGENCY.  TWO IS, IF THE

                    PERSON WHO'S GOT THE AWARD AGAINST THEM -- LET'S SAY YOU'RE -- YOU'RE A

                    BUSINESS OWNER AND IT'S YOUR BUSINESS AND YOU DON'T LIKE THE OUTCOME

                    OF THAT DECISION, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO DIRECTLY TO COURT AND FILE

                    WHAT'S CALLED AN ARTICLE 78.  SO YOU GO BEFORE ONE OF THOSE JUDGES YOU

                    REFERENCED.  BUT ARTICLE 78 COULD OVERTURN THE ADMINISTRATIVE DECISION,

                    WHICH HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, AND SO YOU GET BEFORE A JUDGE.  ALL WE'RE

                    SAYING IS WE SHOULD BE A ONE-STEP PROCESS INSTEAD OF TWO STEPS, AND THE

                    CITY HAPPENS TO HAVE THIS AUTHORITY FOR MULTIPLE AGENCIES, NOT JUST FOR

                    CONSUMERS.  SO THIS IS MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR CONSUMERS TO GET

                    AWARDS.  AND THIS BILL IS FOCUSING ON RESTITUTION FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE THE

                    LITTLE GUYS WHO ARE GETTING -- WHO ARE LOSING VITAL MONEY BECAUSE THEIR

                    WAGES ARE BEING STOLEN, THE MONEY IS BEING TAKEN.  AND THIS IS ABOUT

                    RESTITUTION FOR THE EVERYDAY PERSON.  AND SO THAT INSTEAD OF TELLING THEM

                    YOU SHOULD WAIT FIVE, SIX, SEVEN YEARS, WE'RE TRYING TO SPEED UP THAT

                    PROCESS FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, OF COURSE, UNDER THE CURRENT

                    PROCESS, AS YOU MENTIONED, THE INDIVIDUAL CAN PRESUMABLY TAKE THAT

                    ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING AND FILE A SMALL CLAIMS ACTION, FOR EXAMPLE,

                    AND THAT ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING WOULD BE RELEVANT IN A SMALL CLAIMS

                    ACTION.  WHY SHOULDN'T WE EXPECT THE CONSUMER WHO WANTS TO GET A

                                         51



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    JUDGMENT TO PURSUE A SMALL CLAIMS ACTION RATHER THAN REVERSING THE

                    PROCESS AND REQUIRING THE DEFENDANT, IF YOU WILL, TO FILE AN ARTICLE 78 IN

                    SUPREME COURT?  KEEP IN MIND, AN ARTICLE 78 IN SUPREME COURT IS

                    EXPENSIVE.  THE FILING FEES ALONE ARE SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS.  YOU

                    HAVE TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY BECAUSE IT'S A COMPLEX PROCESS, RIGHT?  THE

                    DEFENDANT IS ACTUALLY THE CITY, RIGHT, ON AN ARTICLE 78.  YOU CAN'T BRING

                    AN ARTICLE 78 AGAINST AN INDIVIDUAL.  SO WHY WOULD WE SUBSTITUTE AN

                    ARTICLE 78 FOR SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THAT THEY WERE WRONGFULLY

                    ASSESSED A PENALTY, WHICH IS VERY EXPENSIVE, RATHER THAN ALLOW THE

                    CONSUMER TO BRING A VERY FAST AND INEXPENSIVE SMALL CLAIMS ACTION?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  WELL I THINK IT GOES BACK TO THE

                    CONVERSATION THAT I JUST RAISED EARLIER AROUND INEQUITABLE -- INEQUITABLE

                    POWER RELATIONS HERE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I'M SUGGESTING THE SMALL CLAIMS

                    ACTION IS DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY FOR CONSUMERS, RIGHT?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  DO YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER THE

                    QUESTION?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  YES, PLEASE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  OKAY.  SO IN -- IN A NORMAL RELATIONS,

                    LIKE THE CONSUMER HERE IS THE PERSON -- LET'S SAY SOMEONE HAS THEIR

                    WAGES STOLEN, RIGHT?  THEY ARE LIKELY TO BE LIMITED ENGLISH-PROFICIENT

                    PEOPLE.  THEY ARE LIKELY TO NOT UNDERSTAND OUR LEGAL SYSTEM.  THESE ARE

                    PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.  AND THEN YOU'RE TELLING US

                    THAT INSTEAD OF THE GOVERNMENT TAKING AFFIRMATIVE STEPS TO ASSIST THE

                    PERSON THAT WE SHOULD JUST LET THAT PERSON OUT OF THEIR OWN, INTO THE

                                         52



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    COURT SYSTEM, TO SAY, OKAY, WELL GO FILE YOUR SMALL CLAIMS OR YOU GO TO

                    THE SUPREME COURT AND GET A JUDGMENT.  NO, IT'S GOVERNMENT'S

                    OBLIGATION IS TO HELP THE LITTLE GUY, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS BILL IS

                    DOING IS SAYING, HEY, WE KNOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN IMPARTIAL

                    HEARING OFFICER DECIDE THE FACTS HERE.  BUT ONCE THAT IMPARTIAL HEARING

                    OFFICER DECIDES THOSE FACTS, WE'RE GOING TO HELP YOU BY ENSURING THAT

                    YOU CAN GET A JUDGMENT AND GET RESTITUTION THAT YOU DESERVE.  INSTEAD

                    OF SAYING, WELL, NOW THAT THAT'S DONE, GO -- GOOD LUCK THERE IN SMALL

                    CLAIMS OR SUPREME.  WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY IT'S GOING TO BE,

                    SO IT MIGHT NOT BE FOR SMALL CLAIMS.  IT MIGHT BE TOO BIG AN AMOUNT OF

                    MONEY.  JUST GO FIGURE IT OUT ON YOUR OWN, EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY BE

                    LIMITED ENGLISH-PROFICIENT AND DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LEGAL SYSTEM.  IT'S

                    GOVERNMENT TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN OUR

                    SOCIETY, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND WOULD YOU THEN APPLY THAT

                    SAME CONCEPT TO ALL ACTIONS INVOLVING PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIMITED MEANS?

                    I MEAN, IN THE PAST, JUST BY COMPARISON, WE PROVIDED FREE LEGAL

                    COUNSEL, RIGHT, THROUGH THE LEGAL AID PROGRAM, AS AN EXAMPLE.  FREE

                    LEGAL COUNSEL FOR THOSE WHO HAVE LIMITED MEANS WHO WANT TO BRING

                    SMALL CLAIMS ACTIONS, RIGHT?  WHY SHOULDN'T WE UTILIZE THE EXISTING

                    SMALL CLAIMS ACTION PROCESS WHICH IS VERY FAST AND EFFICIENT, AND IF

                    THESE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUALS NEED MORE HELP, WHY AREN'T WE SUPPORTING

                    THAT PROCESS?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  WELL, I'LL SAY, MR. GOODELL, AS YOU

                    MAY KNOW, THAT I HAVE WORKED AND RUN LEGAL SERVICES OFFICES FOR

                                         53



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ABOUT 25 YEARS, RIGHT?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I SUSPECTED THAT YOU HAVE SOME

                    EXPERIENCE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  I HAD SOME EXPERIENCE HELPING LOW-

                    WAGE INDIVIDUALS AND LOW-WAGE WORKERS AND HELP RECOVER MILLIONS OF

                    DOLLARS.  AND THESE ARE COMPLICATED, DIFFICULT ACTIONS.  AND FOR MANY

                    PEOPLE, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DON'T GET ACCESS TO FREE LEGAL SERVICES.

                    THEY DON'T GET ACCESS TO LEGAL HELP THAT YOU REFERENCED.  THERE IS A

                    SMALL MINORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DO, BUT THE VAST NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO

                    WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE SYSTEM WE'RE TALKING

                    ABOUT.  SO THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO DO GET TO

                    GOVERNMENT TO FILE A COMPLAINT, THAT WE WILL SEE THEM THROUGH THROUGH

                    JUDGMENT.  THIS IS ACTUALLY A GOOD GOVERNMENT PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT

                    WILL HELP.  AND THE REASON WE'RE NOT DOING IT BROADER THAN THIS IS

                    BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS IS FOCUSING ON RESTITUTION.  WE DON'T

                    WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO HAVE UNBRIDLED AUTHORITY TO COLLECT JUDGMENTS,

                    BUT WE DO WANT TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE WHO DESERVE RESTITUTION SHOULD

                    GET IT, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHY THIS IS A NARROW BILL FOCUSING ON

                    CONSUMERS WHO DESERVE TO HAVE THEIR MONEY GIVEN BACK TO THEM

                    BECAUSE THAT WAS BASICALLY STOLEN FROM THEM.  IT IS WAGE THEFT AND WE

                    WANT TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    EPSTEIN.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER MCDONALD:  ON THE BILL.

                                         54



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I CERTAINLY SHARE MY COLLEAGUE'S

                    DESIRE TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEIR WAGES STOLEN FROM THEM OR

                    ARE THE VICTIMS OF THIS TYPE OF ACTIVITY GET RESTITUTION.  EVERYONE SHARES

                    THAT DESIRE.  SO THIS DEBATE'S NOT ABOUT THE DESIRE TO HELP THOSE VICTIMS.

                    THIS DEBATE IS WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO HELP THEM, CONSISTENT WITH DUE

                    PROCESS AND IN THE MOST COST-EFFICIENT MANNER.  NOW, NOT EVERYONE

                    WHO CLAIMS THAT THEY ARE A VICTIM OF WAGE THEFT IS ACTUALLY A VICTIM.

                    THAT'S WHY WE HAVE HEARINGS.  THAT'S WHY WE HAVE COURT ACTIONS.  AND

                    I CAN ASSURE YOU, IN MOST COURT ACTIONS THERE ARE TWO PARTIES WITH

                    DIFFERENT STORIES, AND IT'S UP TO A JUDGE OR A JURY TO SORT OUT THE FACTS AND

                    DECIDE WHICH ONE'S RIGHT.  AND THE PLAINTIFF DOESN'T ALWAYS WIN, AND

                    THE PLAINTIFF DOESN'T ALWAYS LOSE.  AND LIKEWISE FOR THE DEFENDANT.  SO

                    HERE WE HAVE A SITUATION RIGHT NOW WHERE WE HAVE A

                    GOVERNMENT-FUNDED AGENCY IN NEW YORK CITY THAT REPRESENTS JUST ONE

                    SIDE OF THAT EQUATION; THE WORKERS.  THE EMPLOYERS, THEY HAVE TO

                    DEFEND THEMSELVES AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE.  AND THEY GO IN FRONT OF AN

                    ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING JUDGE WHO'S APPOINTED BY THE CITY.  SO YOU'VE

                    GOT A CITY AGENCY APPEARING IN FRONT OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE WHO IS

                    HIRED BY THE CITY.  AND, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THE EMPLOYERS SAY THAT'S

                    NOT THE SAME AS APPEARING IN FRONT OF AN IMPARTIAL JUDGE OR AN IMPARTIAL

                    JURY.  AND THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT JUDGMENTS ARE NOT

                    ENTERED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT BASED ON DECISIONS THAT ARE NOT MADE BY

                    JUDGES OR JURIES.  THAT'S WHY.  NOW UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM, IF YOU'RE

                    GETTING AN ADMINISTRATIVE DECISION THAT'S IN YOUR FAVOR, WHICH IS GREAT,

                    THAT MEANS THAT YOU ARE LIKELY DUE THE MONEY OR MORE THAN LIKELY DUE

                                         55



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THE MONEY.  THE CURRENT SYSTEM ALLOWS A TENANT TO GET A JUDGMENT IN A

                    VERY FAST, EASY AND INEXPENSIVE MANNER THROUGH SMALL CLAIMS, OR IF

                    THEY NEED TO, THEY CAN BRING A SUPREME COURT ACTION AND THAT

                    ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE'S DECISION IS RELEVANT.  NOT BINDING, BUT CERTAINLY

                    RELEVANT.  AND SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS REPLACING A SMALL CLAIMS COURT

                    ACTION, WHICH TYPICALLY COSTS, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN A HUNDRED BUCKS AND

                    YOU DON'T NEED A LAWYER AND ALL THE RULES OF EVIDENCE ARE -- ARE WAIVED

                    TO HELP INNOCENT INDIVIDUALS IN SMALL CLAIMS COULD HAVE A DAY IN COURT

                    IN FRONT OF A QUALIFIED JUDGE.  WE REPLACE THAT WITH A COMPLEX APPEAL

                    PROCESS THAT INVOLVES AN ARTICLE 78 ACTION BROUGHT BY THE EMPLOYER

                    WHO BELIEVES THAT THEY WERE WRONGED, THAT THEY WERE INNOCENT IN THE

                    FIRST PLACE, AND THAT COSTS HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.  AND THE NET EFFECT, BY

                    THE WAY, IS IF THE EMPLOYER FILES AN ARTICLE 78 PROCEEDING BECAUSE IT'S

                    COMPLEX, THAT EMPLOYEE IS GOING TO BE ENDING UP HIRING A LAWYER OR

                    HOPING THAT LAWYERS ARE ASSIGNED TO THEM EITHER BY THE CONSUMER

                    AFFAIRS DIVISION OR BY SOMEBODY ELSE.  SO, NO QUESTION.  IF AN

                    EMPLOYEE WAS SHORTED ON THEIR WAGES, THEY SHOULD HAVE THEIR DAY IN

                    COURT.  AND NO QUESTION THAT IF AN EMPLOYER WAS NOT SHORTING AN

                    EMPLOYEE AND THEY HAD AN HONEST DISAGREEMENT, THE EMPLOYER SHOULD

                    BE ENTITLED TO THEIR DAY IN COURT.  AND I'D JUST SUGGEST THAT CURRENT

                    PROCESS WHICH RELIES ON QUALIFIED JUDGES OR JURIES TO MAKE A FINAL

                    DECISION IS THE RIGHT PROCESS, AND GOING DOWN THE ROAD OF HAVING CITY-

                    AND MUNICIPAL-APPOINTED HEARING OFFICERS MAKE BINDING DECISIONS THAT

                    RESULT IN JUDGMENTS IS THE WRONG APPROACH, ESPECIALLY WHEN SOME OF US

                    SUSPECT THAT SOMETIMES HEARING OFFICER APPOINTMENTS HAVE MORE TO DO

                                         56



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    WITH WHO YOU KNOW AND HOW MUCH YOU'VE CONTRIBUTED TO CAMPAIGNS

                    THAN THEIR LEGAL QUALIFICATIONS.  TO BE CLEAR, I'VE SEEN SOME

                    PHENOMENALLY GOOD ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGES, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE

                    SAME AS A REGULAR JUDGE.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER MCDONALD:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER MCDONALD:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 181.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY VOTING NO.  IF THERE ARE MEMBERS THAT

                    WOULD LIKE TO VOTE YES ON THIS LEGISLATION, PLEASE CALL THE MINORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE.  AND DO SO QUICKLY BECAUSE WE'VE SCHEDULED A

                    CONFERENCE CALL WITH THE CONFERENCE AFTER THIS VOTE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER MCDONALD:  MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  OUR MAJORITY COLLEAGUES WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE FOR

                    THIS ONE.  SHOULD THERE BE A MEMBER WHO WOULD LIKE TO VOTE AGAINST IT

                                         57



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THEY CAN PLEASE CONTACT OUR RESPECTIVE OFFICE AND WE'LL BE HAPPY TO

                    RECORD YOUR NO VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER MCDONALD:  MR. EPSTEIN TO

                    EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I RISE TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  FIRST I WANT TO THANK THE LEADERSHIP AND PROGRAM AND

                    COUNSEL STAFF TO GET US HERE AND THE -- THE CITY DEPARTMENT OF

                    CONSUMER AFFAIRS FOR ALL OF THEIR HELP MOVING THIS FORWARD.  JUST TO BE

                    CLEAR, THE NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR HAS THIS POWER.  THE

                    NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITY HAS THIS POWER.  THE --

                    ACTUALLY PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A PRIVATE RIGHT -- DON'T HAVE A PRIVATE RIGHT

                    OF ACTION FOR PAID SICK LEAVE.  THIS CREATES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE

                    WHO NEED RESTITUTION.  IT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT WILL

                    ALLOW THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LOSING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF WAGE

                    THEFT AND OTHER LOSSES AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET THE RELIEF THAT THEY DESERVE.

                                 I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS AND

                    I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I

                    INCORRECTLY ANNOUNCED THAT WE ARE HAVING A MINORITY CONFERENCE AT

                    1:00.  I FORGOT THAT WE'RE HERE IN ALBANY AND THOSE TIME FRAMES ARE

                    ONLY PROJECTIONS.  AND SO IT APPEARS AS THOUGH WE MAY BE DOING SOME

                                         58



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ADDITIONAL IMPORTANT LEGISLATIVE WORK BEFORE WE CALL OUR CONFERENCE.

                    AND SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE MY MEMBERS TO STAY ON THE ZOOM IF THEY'RE

                    ON THE ZOOM AND CONTINUE TO VOTE UNTIL WE GET THE OFFICIAL WORD OF A

                    CONFERENCE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YOU'RE QUITE

                    WELCOME, SIR.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  ON THE BILL TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE, SIR.

                    AS A MAYOR BACK IN THE -- IN THE DAY FOR EIGHT YEARS, SIX YEARS AND THEN

                    THREE AS A TRUSTEE I SAW A LOT OF ARTICLE 78S.  SO THIS BILL DOES BRING

                    SOME PROBLEMS TO ME.  JUST -- EVERY TIME I HEAR THAT WORD "ARTICLE 78"

                    I -- MY HAIR STANDS UP.  I HAVEN'T SEEN AN ARTICLE 78 - I'M SURE THERE

                    HAVE BEEN - BUT IN ALL THE ONES THAT -- THAT I PRESIDED OVER AND SAW IN

                    OUR VILLAGE WERE -- I DIDN'T -- I DON'T THINK ANY OF THEM WERE UNDER

                    $5,000 ONCE THEY GOT THE ATTORNEYS, THEY ADJOURNED IT, THEY POSTPONED

                    IT, THEY -- THEY PUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER, IT WAS VERY EXPENSIVE.  AND I

                    THINK THE PEOPLE WE'RE TRYING TO HELP HERE, I DON'T WANT TO SEE THEM

                    HAVE TO GO THROUGH ANYTHING WITH AN ARTICLE 78.  I'VE JUST -- I'VE BEEN --

                    THE ONES I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH ARE LENGTHY AND EXPENSIVE.  I HOPE

                    THIS IS A -- THE WAY IT'S BEEN PUT TOGETHER WOULD MITIGATE THAT, AND I'M

                    GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  I KNOW THERE'S GOT TO BE OTHER WAYS

                    TO HELP THESE PEOPLE AND GET THIS FORWARD.  I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE EXACT

                    WAY WE SHOULD DO IT, SO I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                         59



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DIPIETRO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. DIPIETRO IN THE NEGATIVE IN CASE YOU DIDN'T HEAR

                    ME.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08821, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 185, PAULIN, SIMON, GALEF, GOTTFRIED, JACOBSON, SEAWRIGHT, CRUZ,

                    MOSLEY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    DENIAL OF ACCESS TO AN EMPLOYEE TOILET FACILITY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. PAULIN.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SURE.  THE BILL -- THIS BILL CLARIFIES THAT

                    STATE AND LOCAL CONSUMER PROTECTION DEPARTMENTS HAVE THE POWER AND

                    DUTY TO HANDLE VIOLATIONS OF THE CROHN'S AND COLITIS FAIRNESS ACT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU.  WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD

                    FOR JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. PAULIN, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I WOULD BE HAPPY TO.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. PAULIN YIELDS.

                                         60



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO, THIS -- BACK IN 2017 WE PASSED THE

                    CROHN'S AND COLITIS FAIRNESS ACT, WHICH I WAS VERY HAPPY TO SUPPORT.

                    AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THIS BILL TRIES TO SET UP AN ENFORCEMENT

                    MECHANISM FOR THAT BILL THAT WE ALREADY PASSED.  IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.  ORIGINALLY WE HAD PUT THE LAW

                    INTO THE PUBLIC HEALTH SECTION OR THE HEALTH -- YOU KNOW, TO THAT SECTION

                    OF LAW AND THE GOVERNOR ASKED THAT WE REDIRECT IT AND GIVE IT TO --

                    ESSENTIALLY PUT IT INTO THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW WHICH MEANS THAT THE

                    CROHN'S AND COLITIS FAIRNESS ACT WOULD BE OVERSEEN BY THE CONSUMER

                    DEPARTMENTS.  AND HE SAID THAT IN HIS APPROVAL MESSAGE.  BUT NEW

                    YORK CITY HAS SAID THAT THEY DID NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY COULD ENFORCE

                    WITHOUT THIS ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE.  MOST OF THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS HAVE

                    BEEN ENFORCING BASED ON THE APPROVAL MESSAGE, BUT WE WANTED TO BE

                    CLEAR BECAUSE WE ESTIMATE THIS MANY - ABOUT 84,000 CASES OF CROHN'S

                    AND COLITIS IN NEW YORK CITY, SO WE WANTED TO BE SURE THAT THAT

                    DEPARTMENT FELT THAT THEY HAD THE ABILITY TO FOLLOW UP ON A COMPLAINT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  BUT DID -- DOES THIS LEGISLATION

                    AFFECT -- THIS AFFECTS THE ENTIRE STATE, NOT JUST NEW YORK CITY.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  IT DOES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YES, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.  OKAY, SO

                    THIS BILL ALSO AUTHORIZES THE CONSUMER PROTECTION DIVISION TO MEDIATE

                    COMPLAINTS OR TO REFER THEM.  SO MY QUESTION WAS, WHERE -- WHERE

                    MIGHT THE COMPLAINTS BE REFERRED?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SO, I KNOW IN MY COUNTY WE HAVE A

                    DEPARTMENT DEVOTED TO CONSUMER PROTECTION.  MANY -- MANY COUNTIES

                                         61



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    DO NOT ALL.  SO IF YOU HAVE A LOCAL DEPARTMENT WHICH IS PROBABLY FOR

                    MOST OF THE POPULATION OF THE STATE, YOU WOULD MAKE A COMPLAINT TO

                    THE CONSUMER DEPARTMENT AND THEN -- THEN THEY WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY

                    TO FOLLOW UP.  AND IF MOST OF THEM -- NOT ALL, AGAIN, BUT MOST HAVE

                    LAWS.  AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW IN MY COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S A

                    PENALTY UP TO $1,000, BUT THOSE -- THOSE VARY, AS THEY DO FOR OTHER

                    CONSUMER COMPLAINTS AROUND THE STATE.  IF A COUNTY DOES NOT HAVE IT

                    THEN IT'S THE SAME MECHANISM -- IT'S A GENERAL COMPLAINT AND THAT

                    WOULD GO TO THE -- TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OH, TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL -- WELL, TO THE -- TO THE

                    APPROPRIATE DEPARTMENT OF THE STATE, I SHOULD SAY.  SO LET'S SEE.  I

                    BELIEVE WHAT THE APPROVAL MESSAGE SAYS --

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 -- SO -- SO THERE'S A CONSUMER PROTECTION BUREAU OR

                    THE APPROPRIATE DEPARTMENT AT STATE GOVERNMENT.  SO HE DOES SAY THAT IT

                    IS THE NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  I WAS WONDERING IF IT MIGHT GO

                    TO THE NEW YORK STATE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS.  THAT'S -- I WAS JUST

                    WONDERING.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I THINK WE'D NEED A NEW CHAPTER

                    AMENDMENT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  AND THEN YOU KIND OF

                    ANTICIPATED MY SECOND QUICK QUESTION WHICH WAS ON THE ISSUE OF

                    PENALTIES.  SO IF I UNDERSTOOD YOU CORRECTLY YOU JUST SAID THAT THE

                                         62



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    PENALTIES WOULD VARY FROM -- FROM --

                                 MS. PAULIN:  DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES.  YEAH.  AS

                    THEY DO FOR MOST OF THE CONSUMER COMPLAINTS THAT WE HAVE AROUND THE

                    STATE.  WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE -- I MEAN, UNIFORMITY IS -- IS GOOD, BUT

                    WE DON'T HAVE THIS FOR MOST, SO THIS IS ONE OF THOSE NOW.

                                 MS. WALSH:  WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR

                    ANSWERS TO MY QUESTION -- MY QUESTIONS.

                                 AND, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO I'M SO GLAD THAT THIS LEGISLATION HAS

                    BEEN INTRODUCED.  I SUPPORT IT WHOLEHEARTEDLY.  I WAS DOING A LITTLE BIT

                    OF RESEARCH AND I SAW THAT ALL OF THIS -- THIS WHOLE MOVEMENT REALLY

                    AROUND THE -- THE COUNTRY REALLY STARTED IN ILLINOIS WITH ALLY'S LAW AND

                    THEN IT WAS PICKED UP BY DIFFERENT STATES.  AND FROM THERE WE CAME UP

                    WITH THE 2017 LAW, THE CROHN'S AND COLITIS FAIRNESS ACT.  THIS IS

                    ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT TO ME BECAUSE I HAVE A FAMILY MEMBER WHO

                    SUFFERS -- AND "SUFFERS" IS THE WORD -- WITH CROHN'S, AND I CAN TELL YOU

                    THAT HAVING -- BEING ABLE TO GO OUT INTO PUBLIC AND BE ABLE TO FEEL AT ALL

                    COMFORTABLE THAT IF THE -- IF THE NEED ARISES -- AND IT COULD ARISE, REALLY,

                    AT THE DROP OF A HAT -- IF -- IF YOU NEED A RESTROOM, YOU NEED A

                    RESTROOM.  AND I THINK IT'S REASONABLE AND FAIR THAT IF THERE'S ONE

                    AVAILABLE THAT THIS IS A VERY VALID MEDICAL PROBLEM THAT IS SOLVED BY

                    HAVING EMPLOYERS ALLOW THEIR RESTROOMS TO BE -- EVEN IF THEY'RE

                    EMPLOYEE RESTROOMS -- TO BE AVAILABLE TO THESE INDIVIDUALS.  IT'S REALLY

                    -- IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

                                         63



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 SO I'M VERY HAPPY TO SUPPORT THIS -- THIS BILL, AND

                    THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MA'AM.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 185.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MR.

                    FRIEND IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  SO

                    NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF WE COULD

                    GO TO RULES REPORT NO. 196 BY MS. JEAN-PIERRE AND RULES REPORT NO.

                    209 BY MR. HEVESI.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                         64



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09968, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 196, JEAN-PIERRE.  AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 122 OF THE LAWS OF

                    2015 RELATING TO TAX ASSESSMENTS FOR CERTAIN IMPROVED PROPERTIES

                    AFFECTED BY SUPERSTORM SANDY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE DEADLINE

                    FOR TAX EXEMPTION APPLICATIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALSH ON THE

                    BILL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  SO THIS

                    BILL EXTENDS FOR AN ADDITIONAL TWO YEARS THE AUTHORIZATION FOR LOCAL

                    GOVERNMENTS AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS LOCATED IN THE FEDERALLY-DECLARED

                    DISASTER AREA AS A RESULT OF SUPERSTORM SANDY - WHICH I HAVE A HARD

                    TIME SAYING - TO ACCEPT APPLICATIONS FOR AN EXEMPTION FROM THE

                    INCREASE IN PROPERTY TAXES AS A RESULT OF IMPROVEMENTS ON HOMES

                    AFFECTED BY THAT SUPERSTORM.  APPLICATIONS WILL BE ACCEPTED UNTIL

                    MARCH, 2022.  SO, AS I'M SURE WE ALL REMEMBER, SUPERSTORM SANDY

                    HAPPENED IN 2012, SO WE'RE NOW EIGHT YEARS AWAY FROM THAT STORM.

                    AND WHEN WE FIRST PASSED THE FIRST EXTENDER, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN

                    UNANIMOUS.  AND THE ONLY POINT THAT I JUST WANTED TO BRING OUT -- OR

                    REALLY A RHETORICAL QUESTION, I GUESS, IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY MORE

                    TIMES ARE WE GOING TO DO THIS?  IN -- IN 2018 WE UNANIMOUSLY PASSED

                    ANOTHER EXTENDER, AND NOW WE HAVE THIS BILL TODAY.  I COMPLETELY

                    UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO GRANT THIS TYPE OF RELIEF, PARTICULARLY IN THE

                    IMMEDIATE YEARS FOLLOWING THIS TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE STORM THAT DID SO

                    MUCH DEVASTATION IN THAT AREA.  BUT AT THIS POINT THIS WOULD BE

                    EXTENDED UNTIL MARCH OF 2022, AND I WOULD JUST SAY THAT ALTHOUGH I WILL

                                         65



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    BE SUPPORTING THIS MEASURE, I REALLY DO HOPE THAT THIS IS MAYBE THE LAST

                    TIME THAT WE SEE THIS BILL AND HAVE TO DO ANOTHER EXTENDER.  I JUST THINK

                    THAT, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD BE MOVING FORWARD AT THIS POINT, AS I'M SURE

                    MOST OF THE HOMEOWNERS ALSO WISH TO BE MOVING FORWARD.

                                 SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. MELISSA MILLER.

                                 MS. MILLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I ALSO WILL

                    BE SUPPORTING THIS LEGISLATION.  AND I JUST WANT TO, FOR THE BENEFIT OF

                    ANYBODY WHO LIKE MY COLLEAGUE MS. WALSH FEELS -- YOU KNOW, WE, TOO,

                    FEEL THAT HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO DO THIS.  BUT HAVING LIVED

                    THROUGH AND SEEN THE DEVASTATION IN OUR AREA AS WELL AS THE CASCADE OF

                    UNTOWARD EVENTS THAT FOLLOWED THAT WERE OUT OF ANY HOMEOWNER'S

                    CONTROL, THINGS LIKE TOWNS NOT PERMITTING ON TIME OR HAVING DOCUMENTS

                    BE LOST, THE TREMENDOUS TURNOVER IN NEW YORK RISING STAFF.  THERE

                    WERE A SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE HAPPENINGS THAT THE HOMEOWNERS COULDN'T

                    CONTROL.  AND SO -- AND THEN, OF COURSE, WORK THAT -- CHANGES OF PLANS

                    WHERE YOU HAD TO DO -- YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO RAISE, YOU DID HAVE TO RAISE.

                    YOU KNOW, THERE WERE -- THERE WERE SO MANY MISHAPS FOLLOWING THIS.

                    THAT IS WHY THIS IS STILL NECESSARY EIGHT YEARS LATER.  BELIEVE ME,

                    ANYBODY WHO WAS LIVING THROUGH THIS, THIS IS THE LAST THING THAT THEY

                    WANTED TO BE DOING EIGHT YEARS LATER OR STILL LOOKING AT THIS.  BUT THE

                    REALITY IS THAT THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT EVEN BACK IN THEIR

                    HOMES, THEIR HOMES ARE STILL IN THE AIR OR IN THE, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY

                                         66



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    NEARING END STAGES OF CONSTRUCTION.

                                 SO IT'S JUST -- IT IS STILL NECESSARY, SO I WILL BE

                    SUPPORTING THIS.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. GRIFFIN.

                                 MS. GRIFFIN:  YES.  THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I JUST WANTED TO ADD TO THE CONVERSATION THAT THE

                    DEVASTATION FROM STORM SANDY IS STILL SEEN HERE.  THERE ARE AREAS OF MY

                    DISTRICT, ESPECIALLY IN FREEPORT WHERE YOU STILL SEE HOUSES BEING BUILT.

                    ALONG THE COASTLINE YOU SEE THIS.  AND IT HAS BEEN SO FRUSTRATING FOR SO

                    MANY HOMEOWNERS THROUGHOUT THE -- NASSAU COUNTY, THROUGHOUT THE

                    SOUTH SHORE OF NASSAU COUNTY.  SO IT IS SO IMPORTANT AND ALSO HARD TO

                    BELIEVE THAT WE STILL NEED TO EXTEND THIS.  BUT THE HOMEOWNERS REALLY

                    NEED IT AND I AM PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS BILL AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    GRIFFIN.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 196.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WHILE

                                         67



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    WE'RE WAITING FOR COLLEAGUES TO LET US KNOW OF THEIR EXCEPTIONS TO PARTY

                    VOTES ON THIS BILL, I NOTICED THAT WE HAVE A -- A NEW MEMBER KIM IN

                    THE CHAMBERS.  SHE LOOKS LIKE SHE'S ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE.  HI.  AND SHE

                    WAS IN HERE, MR. SPEAKER, DOING A VICTORY SIGN.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 OH, THAT'S NOT VICTORY, THAT'S THE STAR WARS.  IT'S NICE TO

                    SEE YOU, YOUNG LADY.  SHE'S TALKING IN THE MIC.  WE -- WE HOPE THAT YOU

                    AND YOUR DAD AND THE REST OF YOUR FAMILY WILL STAY SAFE AND HEALTHY AND

                    STAY BLESSED.  YOU'RE WELCOME INTO OUR CHAMBERS.  IT'S NICE TO SEE YOU.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10513, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 209, COMMITTEE ON RULES (HEVESI, JAFFEE).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO REPORTING DATA ON CHILD WELFARE

                    PREVENTIVE SERVICES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. HEVESI.

                                 MR. HEVESI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER AND MY

                    COLLEAGUES.  I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT, A POINT OF PERSONAL

                    PRIVILEGE, MR. SPEAKER, JUST TO THANK ALL OF THE STAFF AND MEMBERS AT THE

                    DESK WHO I'M WATCHING DAILY IN AND OUT.  ALL OF THEM, INCLUDING THE

                    PARLIAMENTARIAN, MY FRIEND THE SERGEANT-AT-ARMS, EVERYONE, FOR THE

                                         68



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    GREAT JOB THEY'RE DOING ALL BEHIND THE SCENES.  EVERYONE EXCEPT BRIAN

                    COYNE, WHO I CANNOT BRING MYSELF TO THANK PUBLICLY.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 AS FOR THE -- AS FOR THE EXPLANATION FOR THE BILL, THIS

                    BILL WOULD ESTABLISH REPORTING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE OFFICE OF CHILDREN

                    AND FAMILY SERVICES TO COLLECT DATA ON THE UTILIZATION AND EFFECTIVENESS

                    OF PREVENTATIVE SERVICES.  WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PREVENTATIVE

                    SERVICES IN THIS CONTEXT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SERVICES THAT ARE DESIGNED

                    TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER AND TO KEEP KIDS OUT OF FOSTER CARE.  THIS IS A

                    STRAIGHT REPORTING BILL.  IT WILL HAVE A MINIMAL FISCAL IMPACT, AND

                    FRANKLY, WE NEED TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF SERVICES WE ARE

                    PROVIDING IN AN EFFORT TO SAVE MONEY.  THE REASON WHY YOU HAVE

                    PREVENTATIVE SERVICES IS YOU WANT TO KEEP KIDS OUT OF FOSTER CARE,

                    PARTICULARLY FOSTER CONGREGATE CARE, IS THAT THEY'RE MORE EXPENSIVE

                    TYPES OF CARE, AND OUR COUNTIES PICK UP A 38 PERCENT PORTION OF THOSE.

                    SO BY GETTING A REAL SENSE IF OUR MONEY IS GOING TO THE RIGHT SERVICES,

                    I'M LOOKING TO SAVE MONEY AT THE END OF THE DAY.  BUT IT WILL REQUIRE

                    THE COOPERATION FROM OUR COUNTIES TO COOPERATE WITH OCFS AND GIVE

                    THE DATA.  THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU.  WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD

                    FOR JUST A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS?

                                 MR. HEVESI:  MY PLEASURE, MS. WALSH.  GOOD TO

                    SEE YOU.

                                         69



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. HEVESI YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  GOOD TO SEE YOU AS WELL.  WELL IT'S

                    MUSIC TO MY EARS THAT YOU THINK THAT THIS REPORT IS GOING TO SAVE THE

                    STATE MONEY.  THAT'S -- THAT'S GREAT.  I APPRECIATE THAT IDEA.  I -- I -- YOU

                    ALSO ADDRESSED WHERE THIS DATA WOULD BE COMING FROM, WHICH IS THE

                    BURDEN IS GOING TO BE ON THE LOCAL DSS UNITS TO PROVIDE THIS DATA.  IS

                    THAT RIGHT?

                                 MR. HEVESI:  YES.  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW HOW MANY

                    ANNUAL REPORTS OCFS IS REQUIRED TO PREPARE?

                                 MR. HEVESI:  I DON'T.  AND TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST

                    WITH YOU, I HATE ADDING NEW REPORTING REQUIREMENTS AT A TIME WHEN THE

                    STATE IS BROKE AND THE COUNTIES ARE BROKE.  I GOT TO TELL YOU, WE WERE

                    HESITANT ABOUT DOING IT, BUT WE'RE GOING TO DO IT BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE

                    GOAL IS, ONE, TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER.  TWO, TO SAVE THE STATE MONEY

                    BY NOT HAVING KIDS FUNNELED INTO MORE EXPENSIVE PROGRAMS.  SO, YOU

                    KNOW, I -- I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WILL BE A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA WORK AND

                    TIME CONSUMED BY THE LOCAL DSS, BUT I -- I'M GOING TO PROMISE YOU

                    THAT WE'LL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE IT WORTH THEIR WHILE AND TO

                    MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TRYING TO BE AS TRANSPARENT AND SAVE AS MUCH

                    MONEY AS POSSIBLE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO, YOU KNOW, AND I'M PRETTY FAMILIAR,

                    HAVING WORKED IN -- AS AN ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY WORKING WITH CPS

                    AND FOSTER CARE FOR SEVERAL YEARS.  I'M REALLY FAMILIAR WITH THE VALUE OF

                    PREVENTATIVE SERVICES, BUT FOR THE -- FOR THE PEOPLE OUR COLLEAGUES WHO

                                         70



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE, DO -- IS THE PURPOSE OF THE REPORT, MR.

                    HEVESI, TO TRY TO IDENTIFY WHAT SERVICES ARE THE MOST EFFECTIVE IN TRYING

                    TO PREVENT CHILDREN FROM ENTERING FOSTER CARE, FOR EXAMPLE?  IS IT TRYING

                    TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ONES ARE THE BEST OR WHO'S UTILIZING THEM?  I'M JUST

                    A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED ABOUT THE FOCUS OF THE REPORT.

                                 MR. HEVESI:  SO -- SO THE ANSWER TO ALL OF YOUR

                    QUESTIONS IS YES.  WE'RE TRYING TO GET -- WE'RE TRYING TO GET ALL OF THAT

                    DATA.  SO FIRST, WE'RE TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF HOW MANY KIDS USE THESE

                    PREVENTATIVE SERVICES, WHERE THEY WERE REFERRED FROM, IN WHAT

                    COUNTIES.  ALSO, THERE ARE SEVERAL FUNDING STREAMS HERE, SOME THAT ARE

                    MORE COUNTY-HEAVY THAN OTHERS, SO I WANT TO GET A SENSE OF WHO'S

                    PAYING FOR THEM.  AND THEN ALSO, WE ARE ASKING OCFS TO DETERMINE

                    WHETHER THESE HAVE WORKED BY TELLING US HOW MANY KIDS WOUND UP IN

                    FOSTER CARE ANYWAY.  SO THE ANSWER TO ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS IS YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  WELL, THAT'S GREAT.  THANK YOU VERY

                    MUCH FOR YOUR ANSWERS TO -- TO MY QUESTIONS.

                                 AND, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MS.

                    WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO, I THINK -- THINK THAT AS THE SPONSOR

                    INDICATED -- AND HE INDICATED THAT THERE WERE SOME RELUCTANCE TO PUT

                    THE BILL FORWARD IN THE SENSE THAT DO WE REALLY NEED ANOTHER REPORT.

                    AND WHEN I FIRST TOOK A LOOK AT THE BILL, THAT WAS MY INITIAL REACTION.

                    YOU KNOW, NOW WITH OUR STATE BEING IN SUCH A FISCAL CRISIS AS IT IS IN, IS

                    THIS REALLY THE TIME TO IMPOSE AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN ON OUR LOCAL DSS TO

                                         71



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    PROVIDE ALL THIS DATA?  IS IT -- IS IT AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO ADD ANOTHER

                    REPORT TO THE LONG LIST OF REPORTS THAT OCFS IS REQUIRED TO PRODUCE EACH

                    AND EVERY YEAR?  AND, QUITE FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THESE

                    REPORTS, THEY SOUND REALLY GOOD BUT THEY -- THEY MIGHT BE SITTING ON A

                    SHELF.  THEY MIGHT NOT BE BEING READ AFTER THEY'RE PREPARED.

                    SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT PREPARED REALLY IN A TIMELY WAY.  SO I -- I THINK,

                    YOU KNOW, REPORT BILLS, REPORTING BILLS ARE SOMETHING THAT WE REGULARLY

                    DO SUPPORT AS -- AS AN ASSEMBLY BODY, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WE

                    SHOULD BE CAREFUL TO NOT DO REPORTS FOR THE SAKE OF REPORTS.  HOWEVER,

                    AFTER TALKING IN JUST THE BRIEF DEBATE THAT I HAD WITH MR. HEVESI, I DO

                    BELIEVE THAT THE SPONSOR GENUINELY DOES THINK THAT THIS MAY YIELD SOME

                    COST SAVINGS AND A CLOSER ANALYSIS OF PREVENTATIVE SERVICES AND -- AND

                    WHAT WE COULD BE DOING BETTER, MAYBE ON A COUNTY-BY-COUNTY LEVEL.

                    YEAH.

                                 SO I GUESS I WILL BE SPONSORING THIS BILL.  HOWEVER, I,

                    YOU KNOW, I -- I STRUGGLE WITH IT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IN A LOT OF

                    WAYS I'D RATHER SEE OUR LOCAL DSS AGENCIES USING THEIR TIME AND

                    ATTENTION TO DELIVER PREVENTIVE SERVICES INSTEAD OF HAVING TO TAKE THE

                    TIME TO GET THE DATA READY AND PUSH IT UP THE CHAIN AND HAVE ANOTHER

                    REPORT DONE.  SO I WILL SUPPORT THE BILL, BUT I REALLY HOPE THAT WHAT WE

                    GET IS GOING TO BE -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO GET THE -- THE

                    BANGLADESH FOR THE BUCK HERE.  SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND THANK

                    YOU TO THE SPONSOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    WALSH.

                                         72



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 209.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MR.

                    DIPIETRO IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WE ARE GOING TO AT THIS POINT STAND IN RECESS.  MR. GOODELL IS

                    GOING TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING HIS CONFERENCE, AND

                    IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THEIR COMPLETION OF THEIR WORK WE'LL BE GOING

                    INTO FOUR COMMITTEES WHICH WERE MENTIONED EARLIER:  JUDICIARY, CODES,

                    WAYS AND MEANS AND RULES.  SO WE WILL BE IN RECESS UNTIL THEN.

                    MEMBERS JUST NEED TO LEAVE THEMSELVES IN THE ZOOM CONFERENCE AS

                    THEY STEP AWAY FOR A RECESS.

                                         73



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MA'AM.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE MEMBERS OF

                    THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE ARE ENCOURAGED TO JOIN US ON A ZOOM

                    CONFERENCE CALL.  IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THAT THEY WILL NEED TO REENTER

                    INTO THE ZOOM SYSTEM FOR THE ASSEMBLY SO THAT THEY CAN PARTICIPATE IN

                    ALL THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS THAT WILL FOLLOW.  SO FOR THE REPUBLICAN

                    CAUCUS MEMBERS, PLEASE JOIN US IN ZOOM FOR A CONFERENCE MEETING.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IN ZOOM.

                                 THE HOUSE STANDS IN RECESS.

                                 (WHEREUPON, THE HOUSE STOOD IN RECESS.)



                                            *     *     *     *     *



                    A F T E R     T H E     R E C E S S                                     5:00 P.M.



                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU.  WE SHOULD

                    CONTINUE WHERE WE LEFT OFF ON OUR DEBATE LIST.  WE'RE GOING TO GO TO

                    RULES REPORT NO. 220 BY MS. ROSENTHAL, RULES REPORT NO. 221 IS BY

                    MR. EPSTEIN AND RULES REPORT NO. 222 IS BY MR. LAVINE, IN THAT ORDER,

                                         74



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00732-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 220, L. ROSENTHAL, SIMON, ABINANTI, WEPRIN, BARRON,

                    EPSTEIN, SEAWRIGHT, GLICK, D'URSO, COLTON, REYES, ORTIZ, GRIFFIN,

                    THIELE, GOTTFRIED, WALLACE, RODRIGUEZ, STECK, FALL, OTIS.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING

                    THE USE OF GLYPHOSATE ON STATE PROPERTY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. ROSENTHAL.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS BILL WOULD PROHIBIT THE

                    APPLICATION OF GLYPHOSATE ON STATE PROPERTY.  DID YOU HEAR ME?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YES, MA'AM.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OKAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MS. ROSENTHAL, FOR

                                         75



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    YIELDING.  WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PROHIBIT THE USE OF GLYPHOSATE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  GLYPHOSATE IS A WEED KILLER.  IT'S

                    BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A PROBABLE HUMAN CARCINOGEN AND IT IS -- IT IS

                    BANNED IN VARIOUS PLACES AROUND THE WORLD AND IT IS -- IT IS A PROBABLE

                    CARCINOGEN.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  IS THIS THE INGREDIENT THAT IS IN WHAT

                    IS GENERALLY KNOWN AS ROUNDUP?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES, IT IS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO THIS IS A PRODUCT THAT LITERALLY

                    MILLIONS OF CONSUMERS BUY EVERY DAY AND USE AROUND THEIR HOME?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT IS, BUT IT IS BANNED IN 21

                    COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.  IT'S BANNED IN DIFFERENT -- DIFFERENT CITIES

                    IN THE U.S.  IN ADDITION, IN NEW YORK STATE, IT IS BANNED ON

                    PLAYGROUNDS, IN SCHOOLS ALL OVER THE STATE AND OTHER AREAS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO, THE STATE HAS ALREADY

                    BANNED THE USE OF THIS CHEMICAL IN ANY AREAS THAT MIGHT BE SENSITIVE

                    LIKE AROUND SCHOOLS OR PLAYGROUNDS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT'S HAS NOT BEEN BANNED IN STATE

                    PARKS AND STATE PROPERTY, STATE RECREATION AREAS, AND IT IS ALSO

                    UNNECESSARY TO USE BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY OTHER ALTERNATIVES THAT ARE

                    NOT TOXIC.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND WHAT ARE THOSE ALTERNATIVES?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  LET ME GET THAT FOR YOU.  ONE

                    SECOND.  THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED INDUSTRIAL VINEGAR, AND THERE ARE

                    HERBAL PRODUCTS, AS WELL.

                                         76



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AS -- AS YOU KNOW, THOSE PRODUCTS

                    ALSO HAVE WELL-KNOWN SIDE EFFECTS.  INDUSTRIAL VINEGAR, FOR EXAMPLE, IS

                    VERY ACIDIC.  THE HERBAL PRODUCTS ARE -- ARE GREAT, BUT OBVIOUSLY, IF THEY

                    WERE AS EFFECTIVE OR COST-EFFECTIVE THEY'D BE WIDELY UTILIZED AS WELL.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I'LL TAKE ACIDIC OVER CANCER

                    CAUSING ANY DAY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I SAID I WILL TAKE ACIDIC OVER

                    CANCER CAUSING ANY DAY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, JUST KEEP IN MIND THAT EVEN

                    WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH ACIDITY, WE USED TO HAVE A HORRIFIC PROBLEM

                    WITH ACID RAIN IN THE ADIRONDACKS.  WOULD YOUR BILL PROVIDE FOR ANY

                    EXCEPTION IN ANY OF OUR STATE PARKS, AND WOULD IT APPLY, AS WELL, TO THE

                    ADIRONDACK STATE PARK?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT WOULD APPLY TO ALL STATE

                    PARKS, BUT LET ME CLARIFY THAT ROUNDUP IS USED TO ELIMINATE WEEDS AND

                    BEFORE THE INVENTION OF ROUNDUP AND ALL THESE PESTICIDES, IT WAS

                    ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT WAS MANUALLY DONE.  THAT IS ALSO A POSSIBILITY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO YOU ENVISION THAT IN THE

                    ADIRONDACK STATE PARK WE WOULD MANUALLY REMOVE WEEDS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS IS A STATEWIDE BILL, SO IT'S IN

                    THAT PARK, BUT IT'S ALSO IN OTHER AREAS WHERE IT CERTAINLY COULD BE

                    MANUALLY REMOVED.  BUT WHAT THE GOAL OF THIS LEGISLATION IS TO TAKE

                    AWAY SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A PROBABLE CARCINOGEN, AND

                    ALSO SPARE THE STATE THE LIABILITY BECAUSE, IN FACT, THERE ARE SUITS ACROSS

                                         77



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THE COUNTRY AGAINST BAYER, WHICH BOUGHT MONSANTO, ONES THAT BAYER

                    SETTLED FOR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND WE ARE JUST A SITTING DUCK IF ANYONE

                    TRIES TO SUE NEW YORK STATE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AM I CORRECT YOUR BILL WOULD NOT

                    APPLY, THEN, TO THE PRIVATE USE OF THIS FOR AGRICULTURAL USE, FOR EXAMPLE,

                    OR HOME USE OR WHATEVER?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THAT IS RIGHT.  IT'S ONLY ON STATE

                    PROPERTY.  AND, ALSO, I DON'T THINK THE ADIRONDACKS GETS WEEDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  YOU THINK THEY'RE EXEMPT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THEY DON'T GET WEEDED, THOSE

                    ARE WILD AREAS SO I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS APPLIED THERE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, THIS CHEMICAL HAS BEEN

                    EXTENSIVELY REVIEWED, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, BY BOTH THE EPA AND THE

                    DEC.  HAS THE EPA BANNED ITS GENERAL USE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OKAY, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE EPA

                    -- AND THERE ARE MULTIPLE PEER-REVIEWED STUDIES THAT SUGGEST THAT

                    GLYPHOSATE CAN BE HARMFUL.  A 2016 CONSENSUS STATEMENT IN

                    ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH, THAT'S A PUBLICATION, FOUND THAT HUMAN

                    EPIDEMIOLOGICAL AND DOMESTICATED ANIMAL STUDIES SUGGEST ASSOCIATION

                    EXPOSURE -- BETWEEN EXPOSURE TO GBH'S ADVERSE HEALTH OUTCOMES.  A

                    2014 REPORT BY THE USGS, THE UNITED STATES GEOLOGICAL SURVEY, FOUND

                    GLYPHOSATES OCCURRED WIDELY, 59 PERCENT OF SURFACE WATER STUDIES, 58

                    PERCENT OF SOIL AND SEDIMENT SAMPLES, AND -- AND THE FACT IS THAT THE

                    EPA, WORKING WITH MONSANTO, MANAGED TO SQUELCH A REPORT

                    ILLUSTRATING GLYPHOSATE'S HARMS FOR THREE YEARS.  THE EPA THAT IS RULING

                                         78



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ON THIS IS ONE THAT IS COMPLICIT WITH THE INDUSTRY.  SO, I -- MOST PEOPLE

                    DO NOT TRUST THAT PROCLAMATION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO MY QUESTION WAS HAS THE EPA

                    REVIEWED IT?  AND I THINK YOUR ANSWER IS YES, THEY HAVE, BUT YOU DON'T

                    TRUST THE EPA; IS THAT ACCURATE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, WHAT I SAID AND I'LL -- I'LL

                    FURTHER TO THAT IS IN A MARCH 2019 TRIAL, A FORMER CEO OF MONSANTO

                    REVEALED THAT THE COMPANY NEVER CONDUCTED EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES

                    ON THE CANCER RISK, AND MULTIPLE TRIALS IN CALIFORNIA AGAINST MONSANTO

                    HAVE REVEALED THAT THE EPA HAS BEEN VERY LAX ON OVERSIGHT.  THESE ARE

                    IN THE TRIALS WHERE PEOPLE WERE AWARDED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.  I THINK

                    YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE CASE OF -- OF THE MAN WHO SUED AND HE

                    DEVELOPED NON-HODGKIN'S LYMPHOMA BECAUSE HE HAD WORKED WITH

                    GLYPHOSATE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS --

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, I AM FAMILIAR WITH THAT --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  -- HE'S THE ONE -- AND HE PASSED

                    AWAY, SO HIS SUIT IS THE ONE WHERE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WERE AWARDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  MY QUESTION, THOUGH, AND I

                    APOLOGIZE IF IT SOUNDS LIKE I'VE ASKED IT FOR THE THIRD TIME, BUT FOR THE

                    THIRD TIME, HAS THE EPA RULED ON THIS AND WHAT WAS THE EPA'S

                    DETERMINATION?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I THINK -- I THINK YOU KNOW THE

                    ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.  I ANSWERED IT WITH A CAVEAT THAT THE EPA --

                    THE EPA THAT HID FOR THREE YEARS EVIDENCE THAT GLYPHOSATE USE IS

                    HARMFUL SAID IT'S NOT HARMFUL.

                                         79



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I SEE.  SO THE EPA SAID IT'S NOT

                    HARMFUL AND, OF COURSE, WE ALSO HAVE THE NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT

                    OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION, OUR STATE EMPLOYEES WHO WE BELIEVE

                    ARE EXPERTS.  AND WHAT HAS THE NEW YORK STATE DEC SAID ABOUT THIS

                    CHEMICAL USE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S COME BEFORE

                    DEC.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  DOES THE DEC, UNDER CURRENT LAW,

                    HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO BAN HARMFUL CHEMICALS THAT THEY THINK ARE AN

                    IMMINENT THREAT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A BAN; IT'S A

                    PROHIBITION ON ITS USE IN CERTAIN AREAS IN THE STATE WHERE IT WOULD BE IN

                    CONTACT WITH CHILDREN -- IT WOULD BE HARMFUL TO THEM.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  BUT OUR DEC CERTAINLY HAS THE

                    AUTHORITY TO BAN CHEMICALS THEY THINK ARE DANGEROUS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OUR -- OUR STATE AGENCIES HAVE

                    AUTHORITY TO DO MANY THINGS.  I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS BROUGHT UP IN --

                    IN FRONT OF THEM, BUT THIS IS AN ACTION THAT A LEGISLATURE CAN TAKE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO AT THIS POINT, THOUGH, THE DEC

                    HAS NOT EXERCISED ITS EXPERTISE TO BAN OR RESTRICT THE USE OF THIS

                    CHEMICAL; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T THINK IT PROVES OR

                    DISPROVES ANYTHING.  THEY HAVEN'T -- THEY HAVEN'T MADE DETERMINATIONS.

                    AND IT'S A PURCHASING PREFERENCE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND IS IT THEN YOUR VIEW THAT THE

                                         80



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    LEGISLATURE, WHICH, I MEAN, WE HAVE A LOT OF REALLY SMART, SMART

                    CAPABLE PEOPLE, NO DOUBT, BUT IS IT YOUR VIEW THAT WE ARE SMARTER, MORE

                    CAPABLE, MORE EDUCATED, MORE SCIENTIFICALLY-IN TUNE THAN OUR OWN DEC

                    AND THE FEDERAL EPA WHEN IT COMES TO RECOGNIZING AND BANNING

                    CHEMICALS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  ONCE AGAIN, MR. GOODELL, WE'RE

                    NOT BANNING THIS CHEMICAL.  I WOULD LIKE TO, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS BILL

                    IS ABOUT.  THIS BILL IS ABOUT BANNING ITS USE IN STATE PARKS.  THE

                    LEGISLATURE HAS ACTED TO PROHIBIT PESTICIDES IN PLAYGROUNDS, SO WE'VE

                    DONE THIS BEFORE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.

                    ROSENTHAL.  I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS AND YOUR PATIENCE WITH ME AS I

                    ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS.  THANK YOU, MA'AM.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO PROBLEM.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH,

                    MADAM SPONSOR.  I APOLOGIZE IF I MISSED A COUPLE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT

                                         81



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    MY COLLEAGUE ASKED, BUT I'LL JUST REITERATE THEM.  ONE OF THE QUESTIONS:

                    DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ACRES IN NEW YORK STATE IS ACTUALLY USED FOR

                    AGRICULTURE THAT IS STATE PROPERTY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS -- THIS DOES NOT PERTAIN TO

                    ALL ACRES OF AGRICULTURE IN NEW YORK STATE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO -- SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS

                    IF IT'S AG-RELATED, THIS ISN'T GOING TO RELATE TO AG-RELATED?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT -- IT -- IT -- IT INCLUDES STATE

                    PARKS, FORESTS, CERTAIN CAMPGROUNDS AND OTHER RECREATIONAL FACILITIES.

                    SO, IT IS NOT DIRECTED AT FARMS AT ALL.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  BUT IT DOES SAY "STATE

                    PROPERTIES", CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.  IF A FARM -- IF SOMEONE IS

                    USING STATE LAND, THEY WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAW, BUT THIS IS NOT -- IT

                    IS DIRECTED AT PUBLIC USE AREAS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO -- SO IS IT SAFE FOR

                    ME TO SAY THAT ANY OF OUR FARMERS CAN USE STATE PROPERTY AND USE

                    GLYPHOSATE ON IT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IF FARMERS ARE USING STATE LANDS,

                    THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW STATE LAW.  IF IT PERTAINS TO LANDS THAT THEY ARE

                    USING, YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO IF THIS BILL PASSES

                    AND IT BECOMES LAW, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THEN AT THAT POINT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WHAT WILL HAPPEN THEN IS THAT IN

                    STATE PARKS, FORESTS, CERTAIN CAMPGROUNDS AND OTHER RECREATIONAL

                                         82



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    FACILITIES, THERE WILL BE NO MORE USE OF PRODUCTS CONTAINING GLYPHOSATE;

                    HOWEVER, THERE ARE OTHER NON-TOXIC CHEMICALS THAT CAN STILL BE USED.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO -- SO YOU'RE TALKING

                    ABOUT NON-TOXIC CHEMICALS, BUT A FARMER CAN STILL USE GLYPHOSATE; YOU

                    HAVEN'T SAID YES OR NO TO ME.  THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, FARMERS USING STATE LANDS

                    WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW STATE LAW AND WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO USE IT;

                    HOWEVER, FARMERS OWN PROPERTY, THEY CAN USE WHAT THEY WANT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  I UNDERSTAND.  SO WHAT YOU

                    JUST SAID NOW THEN IF THIS PASSES, FARMERS COULD NOT USE THIS ON STATE

                    PROPERTY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  ON STATE PROPERTY, THEY HAVE TO

                    FOLLOW STATE LAW PERTAINING TO THAT PROPERTY.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO IT IS MORE THAN JUST

                    THE PARKS AND OTHER AREAS.  HOW DOES THIS PERTAIN TO OUR SUNY

                    SCHOOLS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  SORRY -- SORRY?

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  HOW WOULD THIS PERTAIN TO OUR

                    STATE COLLEGES, OUR SUNY SCHOOLS LIKE --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IF IT'S -- IF IT WAS STATE LAND, THEY

                    HAVE TO FOLLOW STATE LAW, YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO SUNY MORRISVILLE,

                    SUNY COBLESKILL -- SUNY MORRISVILLE USES ABOUT 800 ACRES; SUNY

                    COBLESKILL USES ABOUT 650; SUNY DELHI USES ABOUT 250 ACRES.  SO, AT

                    THIS POINT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IF THIS LAW PASSES, THOSE SCHOOLS ARE NOT

                                         83



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ALLOWED TO USE GLYPHOSATE EVEN THOUGH IT'S LABELED IN NEW YORK STATE,

                    THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO USE IT; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES, THAT IS CORRECT.  BUT, AS I

                    SAID EARLIER, THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES THAT DON'T HAVE ANY LINK TO CANCER.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  I -- I AGREE WITH THAT.  I

                    MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT.  I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT.

                    BUT WE HAVE TO BE PRODUCTIVE IN NEW YORK STATE.  WE NEED TO

                    COMPETE WITH OTHER STATES IN THE COUNTRY, AND SO BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE

                    SAYING IS WE, AS LEGISLATORS, ARE SMARTER THAN THE EPA AND THE DEC,

                    BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BANNED IT IN NEW YORK STATE; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO, IT'S NOT CORRECT, ACTUALLY.  AS

                    I SAID TO MR. GOODELL, DEP [SIC] HAS NOT GIVEN AN OPINION AND SO --

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  PARDON ME?  DEP?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I SAID DEP [SIC] IS NOT PART OF

                    THIS DISCUSSION.  THEY HAVE NOT RULED.  AND ALSO, AS I SAID TO MR.

                    GOODELL EARLIER, WE HAVE PASSED LEGISLATION BANNING THE USE OF

                    PESTICIDES IN PLAYGROUNDS, SO WE'VE DONE THIS BEFORE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  YEAH, JUST BECAUSE WE'VE DONE

                    IT BEFORE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S THE BEST THINGS ALWAYS.  SO, IN MY DISTRICT,

                    YOU KNOW, THERE'S 4,000-PLUS ACRES OF STATE LAND THAT I JUST DID A QUICK

                    SEARCH ON.  IN MY DISTRICT ALONE, THERE'S 1,000 ACRES OR MORE THAT WE

                    USE FOR AG.  SOME OF THOSE STATE LANDS ARE BLACK SOIL, MUCK SOIL AND

                    ROUNDUP IS VERY MUCH NEEDED IN THOSE -- THOSE SOILS.  SO IF THIS PASSES,

                    WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO

                    FARM THAT LAND.  SO, THIS IS --

                                         84



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO FARM

                    THAT LAND, YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE GLYPHOSATE.  AND A POINT THAT I

                    WANT TO BRING OUT IS THAT THERE ARE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SETTLEMENTS

                    THAT BAYER, WHICH PURCHASED ROUNDUP FROM MONSANTO, HAS HAD TO PAY

                    OUT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT WAS A CLASS ACTION SUIT.  I DON'T

                    THINK NEW YORK STATE SHOULD BE HELD LIABLE IF ANYTHING HAPPENS TO

                    PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH ROUNDUP AND GLYPHOSATE, AS THAT HAPPENED TO

                    THAT POOR GROUNDSKEEPER IN CALIFORNIA.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY, SO WE'LL -- WE'LL SKIP --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  SORRY, ONE MORE THING.  THERE'S

                    A $10 BILLION SETTLEMENT FUND.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO, THE MONEY --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T THINK NEW YORK STATE

                    HAS $10 BILLION TO PUT IN A FUND RIGHT NOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO THE $10 BILLION MAKES IT

                    OKAY, THEN.  OKAY.  NEXT QUESTION --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO, IT DOESN'T MAKE IT OKAY.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  HOW MANY FARMERS DID YOU

                    ACTUALLY TALK TO ABOUT THIS BILL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE A FEW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WHERE WERE THEY FROM?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  AS I SAID, THE GOAL IS TO PROTECT

                    THE PUBLIC FROM STATE-OWNED PARKS, FORESTS, CAMPGROUNDS AND

                                         85



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    RECREATIONAL AREAS TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE WHO USE THOSE AREAS FROM

                    HAVING TO BE EXPOSED TO GLYPHOSATE.  IT IS A PROTECTIVE MEASURE FOR THE

                    PUBLIC.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  BUT AS YOU JUST SAID

                    EARLIER, THAT IF THIS BILL PASSES, IT'S GOING TO ALSO INCLUDE THE AGRICULTURAL

                    PROPERTY THAT THE STATE OWNS IN NEW YORK STATE.  THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS BILL IS NOT JUST ABOUT ONE

                    SECTOR.  IT'S ABOUT THE PUBLIC.  IT'S PUBLIC LAND UNDER OUR PURVIEW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THEN CAN WE PUT THAT VERBIAGE

                    IN THERE THAT SAYS IT'S NOT FOR THE AG PART OF THE STATE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO, I -- NO ONE SAID THAT.  I SAID

                    IT IS FOR THE PUBLIC USE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  I UNDERSTAND THAT.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THEY ARE PUBLIC -- PUBLIC STATE

                    LANDS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IF SOMEONE CHOOSES TO WORK ON

                    A PUBLIC PIECE OF PROPERTY, THEN THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAW.  I'M SURE

                    THERE ARE MANY OTHER LAWS THAT THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW WHEN IT COMES TO

                    USAGE OF STATE LAND.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  WE'LL MOVE ON THEN,

                    THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.  HAVE YOU EVER LOOKED AT A

                    PESTICIDE LABEL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES, I HAVE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT'S ON

                                         86



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ONE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T HAVE ONE IN FRONT OF ME.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WELL, I'LL GIVE YOU JUST A QUICK

                    EXAMPLE.  I HAVE ONE HERE IN FRONT OF ME, AND IT'S ACTUALLY A ROUNDUP

                    LABEL.  THE FIRST THING IS INGREDIENTS.  SECOND THING IS IMPORTANT PHONE

                    NUMBERS.  THIRD THING IS PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS.  FOURTH THING IS

                    HAZARDS TO HUMANS AND DOMESTIC ANIMALS AND ON THIS LABEL IT SAYS,

                    "KEEP OUT OF THE REACH OF CHILDREN."  THERE'S NO SKULL AND CROSSBONES

                    ON THIS LABEL.  AND IF YOU GO UP TO THE NEXT SIDE OF THIS LABEL, IT TELLS

                    YOU HOW TO DEAL WITH YOUR EYES IF YOU GET IT ON THERE, OR ON YOUR SKIN,

                    AND IT SAYS, IN THIS LABEL, IS IT'S "RELATIVELY NON-TOXIC TO DOGS AND OTHER

                    DOMESTIC ANIMALS."  THAT TO ME IS VERY IMPORTANT.  AND THE NEXT THING

                    ON THAT LABEL IS THE PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT, WHAT I, AS AN

                    APPLICATOR, HAVE TO WEAR.  AND THAT IS JUST AS IMPORTANT TO ME, BECAUSE

                    AS A FARMER, I'VE APPLIED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ACRES OF GLYPHOSATE TO MY

                    FARM OVER THE YEARS, PROBABLY FOR 40 YEARS.  BUT I DID ADHERE TO THE

                    PPE, LIKE WE'RE DOING HERE WITH THE COVID AND, AT THIS POINT, I SEEM

                    TO BE FINE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, I HOPE YOU -- I HOPE YOU

                    STAY FINE, BUT I'D JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT LEGISLATORS HAVE THE ABILITY TO

                    FOLLOW RECOMMENDATIONS OF EXPERTS WHO SAY IT'S A PROBABLE CARCINOGEN

                    AND IT HAS COST STATES MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEFENDING

                    LAWSUITS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO THAT'S A -- THAT'S A

                    GOOD POINT YOU JUST BROUGHT UP.  IN 2018, AGRICULTURAL HOUSE STUDY, THE

                                         87



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    LARGEST STUDY OF GLYPHOSATE-BASED HERBICIDE SUPPORTED BY THE U.S.

                    NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE, FOLLOWED OVER 50,000 LICENSED PESTICIDE

                    APPLICATORS FOR 20 YEARS FROM 1997 TO 2017 AND FOUND NO ASSOCIATION

                    BETWEEN GLYPHOSATE USE AND CANCER RISK.  FIFTY THOUSAND TESTS, 50,000

                    FARMERS THEY -- THEY FOLLOWED FOR 20 YEARS.  I DID A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH.

                    IT'S VIRTUALLY NON-TOXIC TO MAMMALS, BIRDS, FISH, INSECTS; I'VE WITNESSED

                    THIS PERSONALLY.  IT BREAKS DOWN QUICKLY INTO THE NATURAL MATERIALS SUCH

                    AS CARBON DIOXIDE AND NITROGEN, AND IT DOESN'T PENETRATE THE WOODY

                    STEMS OF TREES, SHRUBS AND GRAPEVINES.  THAT'S JUST -- THAT'S JUST ONE

                    STUDY.  AND I'VE REACHED OUT TO FARM BUREAU, THEY'RE IN OPPOSITION TO

                    THIS AND IT WILL, AGAIN, PUT OUR FARMERS AT A DISADVANTAGE HERE IN NEW

                    YORK STATE AGAIN WITH THE REST OF THE STATE AND PART OF THE COUNTRY, OR

                    SOME OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES.  AND ALSO --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I THINK YOU'RE TRYING TO CREATE A

                    NARRATIVE AROUND THIS BILL THAT ACTUALLY DOESN'T EXIST.  AND THE FACT THAT

                    THE POOR MAN DEVELOPED NON-HODGKIN'S LYMPHOMA AND DIED OF IT AND

                    WAS AWARDED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS MEANS THAT THAT IS A PROBLEM.  AND THE

                    FACT IS THAT THERE ARE PLENTY OF EXPERTS THAT I TRUST, SCIENTIFIC EXPERTS,

                    WELL-ACCREDITED, NOT FLY-BY-NIGHT PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT IT IS A POTENTIAL

                    CANCER-CAUSING AGENT THAT ENDS UP IN WATER, SOIL AND THERE ARE OTHER

                    STUDIES, SO...

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO, I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT

                    THE U.S. CANCER INSTITUTE IS A FLY-BY-NIGHT, BUT I'LL GO ON.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I SAID IT'S NOT A FLY -- I DID NOT

                    SAY THAT.  PLEASE DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

                                         88



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WELL, DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY

                    MOUTH, MA'AM.  BUT HERE WE GO.  THE EPA, THE ENVIRONMENTAL

                    PROTECTION AGENCY, HAS THOROUGHLY EVALUATED POTENTIAL HUMAN HEALTH

                    RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THE EXPOSURE TO GLYPHOSATE AND DETERMINED THAT

                    THERE IS NO RISK TO HUMAN HEALTH THROUGH THE CURRENT REGISTRATION USE OF

                    GLYPHOSATE, AND THAT GLYPHOSATE IS NOT LIKELY TO BE A CARCINOGEN TO

                    HUMANS.  THAT'S THE EPA.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I EXPLAINED ALREADY ABOUT HOW

                    THE EPA WORKED HAND AND GLOVE WITH THE INDUSTRY TO SQUELCH A REPORT

                    THAT WOULD'VE REVEALED TOXIC IMPLICATIONS FOR USING ROUNDUP.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  ABSOLUTELY, AND THAT'S WHY WE

                    HAVE OUR LABELS AND THAT'S WHAT -- THAT'S WHAT THE LABELS ARE FOR.  AND

                    IT'S REMARKABLE.  THIS MORNING I WAS BRUSHING MY TEETH BEFORE I CAME

                    OVER AND I LOOKED AT MY TOOTHPASTE CONTAINER AND ON THERE IT SAYS,

                    WARNING, KEEP OUT OF THE REACH OF CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF

                    SIX-YEARS-OLD.  AND, IF YOU ACCIDENTLY SWALLOW MORE THAN THE USE OF A

                    TOOTHBRUSH, CONTACT MEDICAL HELP OR THE POISON CONTROL CENTER.  ARE

                    WE GOING TO OUTLAW TOOTHPASTE ON STATE PROPERTY, AS WELL, BECAUSE

                    THERE'S A RISK FOR A YOUNG PERSON?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CAN

                    INTRODUCE A BILL TO THAT EFFECT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OH, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

                                 OKAY.  WELL, I JUST WANT TO CLOSE OUT WITH ONE OTHER

                    PIECE HERE THAT I HAD PUT TOGETHER.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT

                                         89



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THERE'S NO REASON FOR THE STATE TO TAKE A RISK THAT WOULD BOTH HARM IT

                    FINANCIALLY AND FISCALLY, WHICH WE CAN'T AFFORD, AND ALSO TAKE A RISK

                    WHEN OUR PUBLIC LANDS ARE USED BY PEOPLE WHO MIGHT GET SICK.  WE

                    DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS IS ABOUT WEEDS.  IT'S NO

                    EMERGENCY.  IT'S ABOUT WEEDS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WELL, WEEDS IN AN AGRICULTURAL

                    FARM IS AN EMERGENCY, BECAUSE ANY WEEDS COST MONEY AND TAKE OVER

                    THE CROP; IT ABSOLUTELY IS.  AND I'D BE GLAD TO BRING SOME FARMERS DOWN

                    AND LET YOU TALK WITH THEM.  SO, JUST -- JUST ONE OF THE MEMORANDUMS

                    OF OPPOSITION WAS FROM THE DAIRY INDUSTRY.  THIS SAYS, THE BILL WOULD

                    HAVE A DIRECT IMPACT ON PRODUCTION OF AGRICULTURE BY RESTRICTING

                    FARMER'S RENTING STATE LAND FROM APPLYING THIS IMPORTANT PESTICIDE.  IN

                    ADDITION, THIS BILL WOULD CREATE A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT OF MANDATING

                    PESTICIDE USE POLICY THROUGH LEGISLATIVE ACTION, RATHER THAN DEFERRING

                    TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION, THE

                    LEGALLY-CHARGED AGENCY FOR PESTICIDE REVIEW AND REGISTRATION HERE IN

                    NEW YORK STATE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  FARMERS DO HAVE OTHER OPTIONS

                    THAN STATE LAND AND WHEN YOU GO GET INTO A CONTRACT WITH THE STATE, YOU

                    HAVE TO FOLLOW STATE RULES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO -- SO THIS WILL DEFINITELY

                    AFFECT THE FARMERS, AGAIN.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING,

                                         90



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    BUT WE HAVE BANDED IN -- WE HAVE BANNED PESTICIDES USE IN

                    PLAYGROUNDS --

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  BUT THIS IS A --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, THIS IS ALONG THE

                    SAME VEIN OF BEING PROTECTIVE OF OUR RESIDENTS AND OUR PARK USERS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO -- SO LAST YEAR ON

                    APRIL 30TH, 2019, WE PASSED A BILL HERE ON THIS FLOOR, A02477-B; ARE

                    YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T REMEMBER BILLS BY

                    NUMBER.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THAT WAS THE CHLORPYRIFOS

                    BILL --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  -- THAT IS USED ON CORN,

                    SOYBEANS, FRUIT, NUT TREES, BRUSSEL SPROUTS, BROCCOLI, CAULIFLOWER, SEED

                    TREATMENTS, AS WELL AS OTHER ROW CROPS.  NON-AGRICULTURAL USES INCLUDE

                    GOLF COURSES, TURF, GREENHOUSES AND NON-STRUCTURAL WOOD TREATMENTS,

                    SUCH AS UTILITY POLLS AND FENCE POSTS.  SO, THERE WAS A VETO MESSAGE,

                    NO. 193, AND THIS IS WHAT CAME DOWN FROM OUR GOVERNOR:  NEW YORK

                    STATE IS ONE OF THE FEW STATES IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE THE REGULATORY

                    PROGRAM DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO REVIEW AND REGISTER PESTICIDES,

                    IMPLEMENT REGULATIONS AND CONTROLS.  THIS BILL - I'M TALKING ABOUT THE

                    BILL THAT WAS PASSED HERE ON THIS FLOOR, FROM THE LEGISLATORS - THIS BILL

                    BYPASSES THE RIGOROUS PROCESS AVAILABLE TO CHALLENGE AND APPROVE

                    PRODUCT AND SUBSTITUTE THE LEGISLATOR'S JUDGMENT FOR THE EXPERTISE OF

                                         91



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    CHEMISTS, HEALTH EXPERTS AND OTHER SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS IN THIS FIELD.

                    AND THIS IS WHAT HIS -- I DO NOT AGREE THAT A PESTICIDE SHOULD BE

                    BANNED BY LEGISLATIVE DECREE.  THIS IS FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE,

                    FROM THE GOVERNOR.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OKAY, OKAY.  SO, I -- I HEAR YOU.

                    THIS ISN'T ABOUT CHLORPYRIFOS, FIRST OF ALL.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  PARDON ME?  PARDON ME?  I

                    DIDN'T HEAR THAT.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I SAID THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE

                    CHEMICAL YOU CITED, FIRST OF ALL.  THIS IS NOT A BAN, AGAIN.  THIS BILL CALLS

                    FOR PROHIBITING USE ON CERTAIN LANDS.  IT IS NOT A BAN OF GLYPHOSATE AND

                    IT ONLY SAYS THE STATE SHOULDN'T BE BUYING IT OR APPLYING IT.  IN ADDITION,

                    WE HAVE SEPARATE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.  WE PASS THE BILLS, THAT'S

                    OUR RESPONSIBILITY.  THE GOVERNOR GETS TO WEIGH IN AFTER WE PASS IT.  SO,

                    HE CAN HAVE HIS OPINION, WE'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE OURS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SIR, YOUR TIME HAS

                    EXPIRED.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YOU'RE QUITE

                    WELCOME.

                                 MS. WOERNER.

                                 MS. WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                 MS. WOERNER:  I PREFACE MY COLLEAGUE, MR.

                                         92



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    MANKTELOW, MADE A KEY POINT.  WE ARE ONE OF TWO STATES IN THE UNITED

                    STATES THAT HAS ITS OWN DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.

                    AND WE INVEST IN THAT AGENCY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS EVERY YEAR.  THEY HIRE

                    SCIENTISTS, THEY HIRE ENGINEERS, AND THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, AS DELEGATED BY

                    THE EPA, IS TO REVIEW CHEMICALS AND THEIR IMPACT ON HUMAN HEALTH AND

                    TO DETERMINE LEGAL STANDARDS AND REGISTRATION FOR THOSE CHEMICALS.  AND

                    OUR DEC HAS DETERMINED THAT GLYPHOSATE -- GLYPHOSATE IS A CHEMICAL

                    THAT CAN BE USED SAFELY IN AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION.

                                 THE TRUTH IS THE STATE OWNS A FAIR AMOUNT OF

                    AGRICULTURAL LAND.  THIS LAND USED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH INSTITUTIONS,

                    PRIMARILY PRISONS, AND THEY ARE NOW LEASED TO FARMERS AS PRODUCTIVE --

                    PRODUCTIVE LAND.  THOSE FARMERS DEPEND ON BEING ABLE TO USE THE FULL

                    RANGE OF TOOLS AVAILABLE TO THEM TO MAXIMIZE THEIR INVESTMENT AND

                    THEIR CROP PRODUCTION.  WE SHOULD NOT BE SECOND GUESSING THE

                    SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS THAT WE PAY FOR EACH AND EVERY YEAR.  WE

                    SHOULD INVEST IN THEM THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DO AN ONGOING ANALYSIS EACH

                    AND EVERY YEAR TO MAKE SURE THAT THE STUDIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE ON THE

                    USE OF VARIOUS CHEMICALS ARE -- REMAIN -- OUR REGULATIONS REMAIN

                    UP-TO-DATE WITH THE SCIENCE.

                                 THIS REALLY IS NOT THE POSITION OF THE LEGISLATURE TO

                    SUBSTITUTE OUR JUDGMENT FOR THAT OF THE EXPERTS.  I WILL BE VOTING IN

                    OPPOSITION TO THIS AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. GLICK.

                                         93



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MS. GLICK:  WE ARE NOT INDIVIDUALLY SUBSTITUTING

                    OUR OWN BELIEFS OR READING, BUT WE ARE SUBSTITUTING THE CONSIDERABLE

                    KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERTISE OF ALMOST TWO DOZEN COUNTRIES WHERE THEIR

                    EXPERTS HAVE DECIDED TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION.  IN ADDITION,

                    GLYPHOSATE IS DECIDEDLY, IN ITS WIDE APPLICATION, DANGEROUS TO

                    POLLINATORS, WHICH ARE SUFFERING FROM A WIDE RANGE OF THREATS.  WE

                    SHOULD NOT BE ADDING TO IT.

                                 IN ADDITION, WE DON'T PUT IT ON PLAYGROUNDS, BUT STATE

                    PARKS, IN GENERAL, PEOPLE TAKE HIKES, PEOPLE CAMP, PEOPLE COULD BE,

                    YOU KNOW, SLEEPING ON GROUND OR PLAYING FRISBEE OR A CATCH UP GAME OF

                    FOOTBALL - NOT NOW WHEN WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC, BUT AT

                    SOME POINT WE ALL HOPE TO BE ABLE TO GET BACK OUT THERE AND ENGAGE IN

                    THESE KIND OF ACTIVITIES IN OUR STATE PARKS.

                                 THE FACT THAT THE STATE GOVERNMENT MIGHT CONCEIVABLY

                    HAVE SOME UNDUE INFLUENCE FROM INDUSTRY; WELL, IT'S VERY POSSIBLE.  BUT

                    WE ARE LOOKING AT OTHER PLACES.  AND THERE ARE RETAILERS THAT HAVE

                    LOOKED AT THE DANGER AND HAVE DECIDED THEY DON'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN

                    BEING PART OF THAT CHAIN OF SELLING THESE PESTICIDES, INCLUDING

                    SOMETHING -- SOMEONE LIKE AN ORGANIZATION LIKE COSTCO, WHICH IS VERY

                    WIDESPREAD ACROSS THE STATE.  THEY ARE WITHDRAWING THEIR SALES OF THIS

                    MATERIAL, AS ARE SEVERAL OTHERS.

                                 AND I APPRECIATE THAT THE STATE DEC HAS REVIEWED THIS

                    AND SAID IT WAS FINE FOR AGRICULTURAL USE.  AND THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE

                    OKAY, BUT ON OUR STATE LANDS, AND IF THERE ARE LANDS THAT HAVE BEEN

                    TURNED OVER FOR PRODUCTION OF FOOD, AGAIN, WE SEE INCREASED INCIDENTS

                                         94



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    OF VARIOUS KINDS OF CANCERS AND OTHER KINDS OF AILMENTS THAT HAVE TO DO

                    WITH THE DISRUPTION OF OUR BODY CHEMISTRY.  AND THESE CHEMICALS ARE

                    NOT NECESSARILY SAFE, EVEN IF OUR DEC HAS - AND THE EPA, INCREASINGLY

                    PROBLEMATIC - HAS DECIDED IT'S NOT GOING TO TAKE A STAND AGAINST THIS.

                                 BUT MY CONCERN IS THE POLLINATORS THAT ARE STRESSED.

                    THE CHANGE IN CLIMATE IS CHANGING THE ABILITY OF OUR FORESTS TO STAY

                    HEALTHY.  WE SEE MORE INVASIVE CREATURES AND WE CANNOT POISON

                    OURSELVES OUT OF THIS.  SO, I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD

                    AND I'M GOING TO VERY HAPPILY SUPPORT IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. TAGUE.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE

                    YOU.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  LISTEN, I'M GOING TO BE VERY BRIEF.

                    AND I ACTUALLY APPRECIATE THE THOUGHTFULNESS THAT THE SPONSOR HAS FOR

                    THIS BILL, BUT, AGAIN, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE BILLS THAT ONE SHOE FITS ALL, A BILL

                    THAT IS NOT GOING TO WORK IN RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK, ESPECIALLY IN OUR

                    FARMING COMMUNITIES.  YOU KNOW, TO BE QUIET SIMPLE, WE CONTINUE ON

                    THIS TRACK, NO FARMS, NO FOOD.  AND I THINK PEOPLE FORGET THAT.  THE

                    FOLKS THAT USE AND APPLY THESE PESTICIDES ARE VERY WELL-TRAINED,

                    UNDERSTAND HOW TO USE THEM.  THE SECOND THING IS TO APPLY THESE

                    MANUALLY WITH THE ACREAGE THAT'S USED ON THE CROPS, JUST CAN'T DO IT THAT

                    WAY.  AND IF YOU WERE SOMEBODY FROM RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK THAT

                                         95



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    UNDERSTANDS THE AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT.

                                 I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL GO BACK

                    TO THE DRAWING BOARD.  I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PARKS AND -- AND PICNIC

                    AREAS AND STUFF OF THAT NATURE, NOT USING THESE PRODUCTS, BUT TO NOT USE

                    ON AREAS LIKE SUNY COBLESKILL, SUNY MORRISVILLE, PLACES WHERE

                    WE'RE ACTUALLY TEACHING OUR YOUNG HOW TO USE THESE TYPES OF

                    APPLICATIONS RESPONSIBLY AND IN THE RIGHT WAY I THINK IS JUST WRONG.

                                 SO WITH THAT, OF COURSE, I WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON

                    THIS, AND WOULD BE HAPPY TO WORK WITH THE SPONSOR, AS I'M ALSO A

                    MEMBER OF THE EN CON COMMITTEE, WOULD BE HAPPY TO WORK WITH THE

                    SPONSOR ON A BILL THAT I THINK EVERYONE WOULD ACCEPT AND APPRECIATE,

                    BUT PLEASE, PLEASE LEAVE OUR FARMERS ALONE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. JONES.

                                 MR. JONES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL YIELDS.

                                 MR. JONES:  HI, LINDA.  JUST A QUESTION.  I MISSED

                    PART OF THE BEGINNING OF THE -- OF THE CONVERSATION, I DO APOLOGIZE.  THE

                    ADIRONDACK PARK WAS MENTIONED.  COULD YOU CLARIFY SOMETHING FOR ME

                    THERE, AND I -- AND I BELIEVE IN BETWEEN LISTENING TO IT, DOES THIS COVER

                    THE ENTIRE PARK?  WE HAVE TO REALIZE THE ADIRONDACK PARK IS SIX MILLION

                                         96



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ACRES, AND THERE'S A LOT OF PRIVATE LANDS ON THERE, AS WELL, OVER HALF OF IT

                    IS PRIVATE LANDS AND PRIVATE PROPERTY.  COULD YOU CLARIFY WHAT THAT

                    COVERS IN THE ADIRONDACK STATE PARK?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  SURE.  NOT PRIVATE LAND, ONLY

                    PUBLIC LAND.

                                 MR. JONES:  OKAY.  SO THAT'S CLEARLY DEFINED IN THE

                    LEGISLATION.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. JONES:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU'RE WELCOME.

                                 MR. JONES:  ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    JONES.

                                 MR. JONES:  I HAVE TO AGREE WITH -- WITH A LOT OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES THAT HAVE SPOKEN HERE TODAY.  I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE

                    INTENT OF THIS BILL AND I -- AND I -- AND, QUITE FRANKLY, I AGREE WITH THE

                    INTENT OF THIS BILL TO KEEP DANGEROUS SUBSTANCES AWAY FROM OUR PARKS,

                    BUT WE ARE DEALING WITH A BROADER ISSUE HERE, AND WE ARE DEALING WITH

                    THE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY, AS WELL.  AND I REALLY ENCOURAGE THE SPONSOR

                    TO WORK -- TO WORK WITH PEOPLE IN THE AGRICULTURAL COMMUNITY AND

                    COLLEAGUES THAT HAVE SPOKEN UP AGAINST THIS, BECAUSE I THINK THERE CAN

                    BE A REASONABLE SOLUTION TO THIS.  BUT THIS BILL IS TOO SWEEPING IN

                    MANNER, IT REALLY IS.  AND, ONCE AGAIN, IT HURTS OUR AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY

                    AND IT -- AND IT PUTS OUR FARMERS AT A DISADVANTAGE TO OTHER PLACES IN

                    THIS COUNTRY.  I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF IT, BUT, PLEASE, WE CAN

                                         97



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    DO BETTER THAN THIS, WE CAN WORK ON THIS - AND I WOULD BE WILLING TO

                    WORK ON THAT, AS WELL.  THAT, FOR MANY OTHER REASONS, WILL BE WHY I'M

                    VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. SMULLEN.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD FOR A FEW MORE QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. SMULLEN ASKS

                    MS. ROSENTHAL TO YIELD.  WILL YOU YIELD, MA'AM?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL YIELDS.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THANK YOU, MS. ROSENTHAL.  THIS BILL, AS IT'S WRITTEN, WOULD IT

                    APPLY TO STATE HIGHWAYS WHERE THE STATE OWNS THE PROPERTY NOT JUST

                    THE RIGHT-OF-WAY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  STATE-OWNED LAND --

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO YOU'RE SAYING ALL --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  -- INCLUDING STATE PARKS, FORESTS,

                    CERTAIN CAMPGROUNDS AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  AND WOULD THAT INCLUDE ALL THE

                    STATE HIGHWAYS, SUCH AS THE NEW YORK STATE THRUWAY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I BELIEVE IT WOULD, YES.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  IT WOULD INCLUDE ALL STATE

                    HIGHWAYS, AS WELL AS THE NEW YORK STATE THRUWAY.  HAVE YOU DONE A

                    CARBON ANALYSIS BETWEEN WHAT IT WOULD COST -- SO, SAYING THAT WE

                                         98



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE GLYPHOSATE FOR ROADSIDE VEGETATION CONTROL,

                    DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY GALLONS ARE -- ARE USED EACH YEAR IN NEW YORK

                    STATE BY THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T HAVE THOSE AT MY

                    FINGERTIPS, BUT AS I SAID, THERE ARE PLENTY OF ALTERNATIVES THAT

                    ACCOMPLISH THE SAME GOAL.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO ONE OF THE ALTERNATIVES THAT YOU

                    MENTIONED WAS MECHANICALLY REMOVING VEGETATION.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT WAS -- YEAH.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THERE IS ALSO A -- A VERY SIGNIFICANT

                    ROADSIDE VEGETATION MANAGEMENT PROGRAM THAT USES TRACTORS TO MOW

                    GRASS AND TO BE ABLE TO MOW THE MEDIANS OF OUR STATE HIGHWAYS.  SO,

                    WITHOUT USING GLYPHOSATE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO RELY EXCLUSIVELY ON

                    MECHANICAL VEGETATIVE CONTROL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  CAN YOU REPEAT THAT LAST PART?

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  WITHOUT USING ANY CHEMICALS, YOU

                    WOULD HAVE TO USE -- THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION WOULD HAVE TO

                    RELY ON MECHANICAL VEGETATION CONTROL EXCLUSIVELY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THEY CAN USE OTHER SUBSTANCES

                    THAT ARE NOT -- THAT DON'T CONTAIN GLYPHOSATE.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  WHAT OTHER SUBSTANCES WOULD YOU

                    RECOMMEND THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION ANALYZE TO BE ABLE

                    TO DO VEGETATION CONTROL ALONG STATE HIGHWAYS, RAILROADS, ANY OF THE

                    AREAS WHERE THE STATE HAS JURISDICTION OVER THOSE ROUTINE MAINTENANCE

                    TASKS?

                                         99



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S NOT CLEAR

                    THAT THEY USE GLYPHOSATE NOW, AND MANY COMMUNITIES DON'T DO IT.

                    MOWING -- MOWING IS -- IS -- IS FINE, BUT COUNTRIES AND STATES HAVE

                    MANAGED TO CONTROL WEEDS WITHOUT THE USE OF GLYPHOSATE, AND TO

                    PROTECT THE STATE'S COIFFURES AND TO PROTECT PUBLIC HEALTH, THIS IS A VERY

                    COMMONSENSE PROPOSAL WHEN THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES THAT CAN DO THE JOB,

                    AS WELL.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MRS. [SIC]

                    ROSENTHAL.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    SMULLEN.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO

                    RECOGNIZE THAT MECHANICAL VEGETATION CONTROL IS -- IS VERY BOTH MAN

                    POWER AND RESOURCE INTENSIVE.  IT HAS A BIG CARBON FOOTPRINT, AND THAT'S

                    WHY -- WHERE THE TRADEOFF COMES BETWEEN USING CHEMICALS AND USING

                    TRACTORS WITH DIESEL FUEL TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN OUR STATE'S HIGHWAYS

                    AND ROADWAYS AND CANALWAYS AND THE VARIOUS AREAS THAT THIS BILL WOULD

                    PROHIBIT A COMMONSENSE USE OF A CHEMICAL TO BE ABLE TO KEEP OUR

                    TRANSPORTATION NETWORKS GOING.  SO FOR THAT REASON, ALONG WITH THE

                    AGRICULTURAL REASONS THAT MY COLLEAGUES POINTED OUT, I WILL BE VOTING

                    AGAINST THIS BILL BECAUSE IT HASN'T ADEQUATELY EXAMINED ALL OF THE

                    TRADEOFFS BETWEEN COST AND BENEFIT BETWEEN USING GLYPHOSATE AND THE

                    OTHER ALTERNATIVES THAT HAVE BEEN (UNINTELLIGIBLE/MIC PROBLEM) HERE AS

                    ALTERNATIVES.

                                         100



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 SO, WITHOUT THE EPA AND THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION WEIGHING IN, I WOULD BE VOTING NO IN

                    ORDER TO PRESERVE OUR COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE IN THE AGRICULTURE SECTOR.

                    WE DON'T NEED MORE JOB KILLING REGULATIONS IN NEW YORK, AND OUR --

                    OUR POSITION IN NEW YORK IS A GREAT PLACE IN WHICH TO DO BUSINESS AND

                    COMMERCE ALONG OUR HIGHWAYS AND OUR BYWAYS, OUR ROADWAYS, OUR

                    RAILWAYS.  FOR THOSE REASONS, I'LL BE VOTING NO FOR THIS BILL.  THANK YOU

                    VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU VERY

                    MUCH.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MS. ROSENTHAL, THE SENATE BILL IS

                    BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT DECEMBER

                    31ST, 2021.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 220.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE IN GENERAL AND IF THERE'S

                    A MEMBER WHO WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, PLEASE CONTACT THE

                    MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SO NOTED.

                                         101



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  CLEARLY, WE HAVE TWO

                    MEMBERS IN THE CHAMBERS WHO HAVE ALREADY STATED THEIR OPPOSITION,

                    BUT IF THERE ARE OTHERS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE OFFICE AND WE'LL

                    MAKE SURE YOUR VOTE IS RECORDED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. MANKTELOW TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AS I

                    LISTENED HERE JUST A LITTLE WHILE AGO TO MY COLLEAGUES AND OTHER

                    COLLEAGUES THAT HAVE SPOKEN TO ME, WE, AS AMERICAN FARMERS AND NEW

                    YORK FARMERS, DO OUR VERY BEST TO PROTECT OUR ENVIRONMENT, TO PROTECT

                    THE PEOPLE THAT WE WORK WITH, THAT WORK ON OUR FARMS, OUR CHILDREN,

                    OUR FAMILIES AND RIGHT NOW AND TODAY WITH WHAT WE HAVE GOING ON WITH

                    COVID AND EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THE HARDSHIPS THAT WE'RE FACING AS

                    NEW YORKERS, THIS BILL COULD WAIT.  THIS BILL DOES NOT NEED TO GO

                    FORWARD.  I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THE SPONSOR ABOUT, YOU KNOW,

                    LOOKING AT THE PARKS AND LOOKING AT OTHER ALTERNATIVES THERE, BUT

                    AGRICULTURE IS NOT THE TIME TO DO THAT NOW.  AND I ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO

                    VOTE NO ON THIS.  LET'S GO BACK TO THE TABLE, LET'S NOT PASS ANOTHER BILL

                    AND THEN WE'LL FIX IT LATER.  OR LET'S NOT PASS A BILL THAT WILL OPEN THIS UP

                    TO SOMETHING EVEN WORSE DOWN THE ROAD.  LET'S TAKE OUR TIME AND VOTE

                    NO AND LET US GROW AND LET US DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO.  PLEASE, COME OUT

                                         102



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    AND SEE OUR FARMS, COME OUT AND SEE US AND SEE WHAT WE DO AND SEE

                    HOW SAFE WE REALLY ARE.

                                 SO, I'M ASKING MY COLLEAGUES, MY FRIENDS HERE TO SAY

                    NO TO THIS BILL, NOT FOR ME, BUT FOR THE PEOPLE THAT WE REPRESENT BACK

                    HOME, THE PEOPLE THAT WE REPRESENT AS FARMERS AND AGRICULTURAL

                    PRODUCERS.  WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.  WE NEED TO START DOING THIS

                    REGION BY REGION, NOT A BLANKET PIECE OF LEGISLATION FOR THE WHOLE STATE.

                    WE CONTINUE TO PUSH THIS.  WE NEED TO GROW TOGETHER AND I ASK THAT WE

                    VOTE THIS DOWN TODAY.  AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK

                    YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING

                    ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WOULD SIMPLY POINT OUT THAT THERE IS A

                    GROWING MOVEMENT ACROSS THE COUNTRY FOR ORGANIC FOODS, AND -- AND

                    FIBERS.  AND SO, ORGANIC FARMING IS GAINING A FOOTHOLD AND THERE ARE

                    MORE AND MORE PEOPLE INTERESTED AND CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IS IN THE

                    FOOD THEY ARE EATING.  AND SO, AT FARMER'S MARKETS, PEOPLE IN MY

                    COMMUNITY CERTAINLY GET TO KNOW THE FARMERS WHO COME TO THE

                    FARMER'S MARKETS, AND THEY ARE ATTRACTED TO THOSE FARMERS WHO ARE

                    ENGAGED IN ORGANIC FARMING, AND PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW THAT THE FOOD

                    THAT THEY ARE EATING HAS NOT BEEN GROWN WITHIN PESTICIDE-LADENED SOILS.

                                 AND, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO ENSURE -- YOU KNOW, WE KILL

                    THE BEES, WE MIGHT AS WELL PACK IT IN BECAUSE NO BEES, NO FOOD.

                    EINSTEIN SAID THAT A COUPLE OF GENERATIONS AGO AND WE HAVE NOT HEEDED

                                         103



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THAT MESSAGE.  SO WE NEED TO BE HEADING TO LESS POISON IN OUR

                    ENVIRONMENT.  WITH -- I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THANK YOU.  TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                    FIRST, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR.  I HAVE TO ADMIT, I WAS NOT AN EXPERT

                    OR ANYTHING APPROACHING THAT ON THIS ISSUE OR THIS CHEMICAL UNTIL THE

                    SPONSOR BROUGHT THIS TO LIGHT, FOR ME, AND WE SHOULD BE DOING

                    EVERYTHING WE CAN, ESPECIALLY NOW IN THE TIME THAT -- TIMES THAT WE'RE

                    IN RIGHT NOW TO PROTECT THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF ALL OF US, PARTICULARLY

                    OUR CHILDREN.  THE INTERNATIONAL AGENCY FOR RESEARCH ON CANCER HAS

                    DECLARED THIS A POSSIBLE -- A PROBABLE HUMAN CARCINOGEN, AND OTHER

                    COUNTRIES HAVE RECOGNIZED THIS, AS WELL.  WHY ARE WE EVEN HESITATING

                    ON THIS?  WE CANNOT TAKE A CHANCE ON HAVING ANYTHING THAT'S HARMFUL TO

                    PEOPLE IN OUR ENVIRONMENT, AND I THINK ESPECIALLY NOW, THIS BILL IS

                    RELEVANT AND IT'S ALSO A VERY -- OF LIMITED NATURE.  I MEAN, IT'S ONLY

                    DEALING WITH STATE PROPERTY.  IT'S NOT DEALING WITH EVERY PIECE OF LAND

                    ACROSS THE STATE.  SO I WOULD URGE EVERYBODY TO VOTE YES, AND I VOTE

                    YES ON THIS EXCELLENT LEGISLATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. RODRIGUEZ.

                                 MR. RODRIGUEZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE

                                         104



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  AND I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE

                    COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE, BUT I THINK THERE'S A GROWING BODY OF

                    SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT DEMONSTRATES THAT THIS IS A POTENTIALLY HARMFUL

                    AND CARCINOGENIC SUBSTANCE, ONE THAT SHOULD NOT BE IN PLAYGROUNDS OR

                    STATE PARKS AND, YOU KNOW, AS A DAD OF TWO YOUNG CHILDREN, ONE WHO IS

                    SEVEN AND ONE WHO IS THREE, WE RECOGNIZE HOW IMPORTANT THOSE STATE

                    PARKS ARE AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW THE SAFETY OF THESE PARKS ARE

                    PARAMOUNT, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE CHOICES AND ALTERNATIVE WITH

                    RESPECT TO GLYPHOSATE.  SO, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT -- THAT WE LOOK AT

                    THOSE AND EXPLORE THOSE ALTERNATIVES.  WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT THE BENEFITS

                    OF ORGANIC -- OF THE ORGANIC MOVEMENT TO AGRICULTURE AND, JUST TO

                    REITERATE, THIS IS NOT ABOUT AGRICULTURE, NOR DOES IT SAY THAT PRIVATE, YOU

                    KNOW, FARMS CAN'T USE THIS SUBSTANCE; ON THE CONTRARY, IT SAYS AT STATE

                    PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, AND STATE FACILITIES IT'S PROHIBITED TO BE USED.

                                 SO, I THINK THAT FOCUS NARROWS IT, YOU KNOW, TO A SCOPE

                    THAT IS, I THINK, SPECIFIC ENOUGH TO THE STATE AND TO STATE -- TO BENEFIT

                    STATE PARKS TO WARRANT US TAKING THIS ACTION NOW AND, YOU KNOW, I

                    ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME AND I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

                    HER WORK ON THIS BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RODRIGUEZ IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. ABINANTI.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I RISE TO

                    SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION.  WE ARE MAKING A POLICY DETERMINATION AS TO

                    HOW OUR STATE LANDS SHOULD BE USED.  THAT IS WITHIN OUR PURVIEW.  WE

                                         105



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ARE STATING THAT WE ARE VERY CONCERNED THAT THERE IS A GROWING

                    CONSENSUS THAT GLYPHOSATE IS A PROBABLE CARCINOGEN AND, THEREFORE, WE

                    WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS NOT BEING USED WHERE PEOPLE OF THE STATE

                    OF NEW YORK ARE GOING TO GO AND POSSIBLY BE EXPOSED TO IT.  THE

                    OWNER OF THIS PRODUCT IS NOW SETTLING LAWSUITS; THAT'S AN ADMISSION THAT

                    THERE IS A PROBLEM HERE.  WE SHOULD BE ALERT TO THAT.  THERE ARE MANY

                    COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD THAT ARE WAY AHEAD OF US, THAT HAVE BANNED

                    THE USE OF GLYPHOSATE.  THE FACT THAT SOME OF THE FARMERS HAVE BEEN

                    APPLYING THIS WITHOUT ANY DANGER TO THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY'RE USING

                    PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT DOES NOT MAKE ME FEEL BETTER.  IT

                    MAKES ME BE VERY CONCERNED THAT THEY NEED TO USE PPES TO PROPERLY

                    APPLY THIS PRODUCT.

                                 I DON'T WANT TO BE NEAR WHERE IT'S USED.  I DON'T THINK

                    WE SHOULD ALLOW THE CITIZENS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO BE NEAR

                    WHERE IT'S USED.  I AGREE WITH THE SPONSOR, WE SHOULD NOT BE POSSIBLY

                    SUBJECTING THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO LIABILITY BY NOT TAKING THIS ACTION,

                    AND I'M NOT SURE HOW EFFECTIVE IT'S TURNING OUT TO BE.  THERE'S ALSO SOME

                    EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S AN EMERGENCE OF GLYPHOSATE-RESISTANT WEEDS, AND

                    IT'S BECOMING VERY COSTLY TO REMOVE THOSE WEEDS.  SO, THERE ARE MANY

                    REASONS WHY THIS IS GOOD LEGISLATION AND I SUPPORT IT AND WILL VOTE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ABINANTI IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. GRIFFIN.

                                 MS. GRIFFIN:  HELLO, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO

                                         106



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I STAND IN SUPPORT OF THIS LEGISLATION AND I COMMEND

                    THE SPONSOR.  THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  I AM A

                    PROUD SPONSOR OF IT BECAUSE THIS ISN'T NEW.  THIS IS A KNOWN TOXIN AND

                    IT'S BEEN KNOWN FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.  AND IF WE, IN NEW YORK STATE,

                    CAN DO THINGS TO HELP HAVE OUR PARKS AND ANY STATE LANDS BE SAFE, THEN

                    WE SHOULD DO THAT.  AND I THINK THERE ARE MANY ALTERNATIVES SO IT IS

                    UNFORTUNATE FOR ANY FARMERS ON STATE LAND, BUT PERHAPS THIS WILL BE AN

                    OPPORTUNITY FOR THOSE FARMERS TO LOOK AT SOME OTHER PRODUCTS, OTHER

                    ALTERNATIVES SO THEY CAN KEEP FARMING.  BUT I KNOW AS SOMEONE WHO

                    PURCHASES FRESH VEGETABLES, I PREFER TO PURCHASE THEM WITHOUT BEING --

                    THIS PRODUCT BEING USED IN IT.  AND I THINK THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT

                    DIRECTION FOR NEW YORK STATE.  THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  MS.

                    GRIFFIN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING REPUBLICAN MEMBERS VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE:  MS.

                    MALLIOTAKIS, MS. MILLER, MR. DESTEFANO AND MR. MONTESANO.  NO

                    RELATION TO THE COMPANY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

                                 MR. PRETLOW.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  ON THE

                    DEMOCRATIC SIDE, WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING EXCEPTIONS:  MS. LUPARDO,

                    MR. STIRPE, MRS. GUNTHER, MR. MCDONALD AND MS. BUTTENSCHON.

                                         107



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, THE B-CALENDAR

                    IS ADVANCED.

                                 SPEAKER HEASTIE:  SO, WE ARE ABOUT TO -- WE'RE

                    GOING TO MOVE ON TWO BILLS THAT RECOGNIZE TWO IMPORTANT DATES IN

                    AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY.  THE FIRST IS LEGISLATION BY

                    ASSEMBLYMEMBER GARY PRETLOW THAT RECOGNIZES THE ABOLITION

                    COMMEMORATION DATE, WHICH WILL BE THE SECOND MONDAY IN JULY.  IT

                    COMMEMORATES THE ABOLITION ACT WITH END -- WHICH ENDED SLAVERY IN

                    NEW YORK STATE.  IT PASSED THE LEGISLATURE MARCH 31ST, 1817, AND

                    ABOLISHED SLAVERY EFFECTIVE JULY 4TH, 1827.  SLAVERY IS OFTEN, TOO,

                    REMEMBERED AS THE LEGACY OF THE SOUTH, BUT NEW YORK HAS ITS OWN

                    DARK HISTORY WITH THE -- WITH THE INSTITUTION.  AT WHAT -- AT ONE POINT,

                    20 PERCENT OF NEW YORK CITY'S POPULATION WERE SLAVES.

                                 ABOLITION COMMEMORATION DAY ALSO HONORS NEW

                    YORK'S ABOLITIONIST HISTORY.  HARRIET TUBMAN AND THE UNDERGROUND

                    RAILROAD; FREDERICK DOUGLASS AND THE NORTH STAR, PUBLISHED IN

                    ROCHESTER; FREEDOM'S JOURNAL, THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN NEWSPAPER

                    PUBLISHED IN THE U.S. BY JOHN RUSSWURM AND SAMUEL CORNISH.

                                 AND I ALSO WANT TO WANT TO GIVE A -- A PARTICULAR

                    SHOUTOUT TO MS. BESSIE JACKSON, SHE IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE ASSOCIATION

                                         108



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    FOR THE STUDY OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN LIFE AND HISTORY, A LONGTIME PUBLIC

                    SCHOOLTEACHER, A CONSTITUENT OF MINE WHO IS 94 YEARS YOUNG WHO HAS

                    FOUGHT FOR YEARS TO MAKE THIS REALITY.  SHE FIRST CAME TO ME WITH THIS

                    PASSIONATE ADVOCACY IN 2004.  SO, I KNOW MS. JACKSON IS WATCHING AND

                    I HOPE SHE FEELS THAT THE WORK THAT SHE HAS PUT IN FOR THE LAST 16 YEARS

                    HAS COME TO FRUITION.  AND THIS IS GOING TO ENSURE THAT THE FULL,

                    UNCOMPROMISED HISTORY OF OUR STATE IS TAUGHT AND REMEMBERED.

                                 AND THEN WE HAVE LEGISLATION BY ASSEMBLYWOMAN

                    ALICIA HYNDMAN THAT MAKES JUNETEENTH A PUBLIC HOLIDAY.  WHEN

                    PRESIDENT LINCOLN ISSUED THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION ON

                    SEPTEMBER 22ND, 1862, AND WHICH WAS TO TAKE EFFECT ON JANUARY 1ST,

                    1863, PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS THE END OF SLAVERY IN REGARDS TO THE

                    UNITED STATES.  BUT THE IMPORTANCE OF JUNETEENTH IS THAT IT -- ON JUNE

                    19TH IN 1865, UNION GENERAL GORDON GRANGER AND FEDERAL TROOPS

                    ARRIVED IN GALVESTON, TRANSPARENCY, AND TOOK CONTROL OF THE STATE AND

                    ENFORCED THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION, WHICH FINALLY RIDDED THE

                    COUNTRY OF SLAVERY.  IT'S A COMMEMORATION OF BLACK AND

                    AFRICAN-AMERICAN FREEDOM AND -- AND ACHIEVEMENTS.  TOO OFTEN BLACK

                    AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY IS OVERLOOKED, WHITEWASHED AND

                    RELEGATED TO THE CONFINES OF A SINGLE MONTH.  BY RECOGNIZING ABOLITION

                    COMMEMORATION DAY AND JUNETEENTH, WE REMEMBER THE HORRIFIC

                    LEGACY OF SLAVERY IN OUR COUNTRY AND OUR STATE, AND WE HONOR THE

                    STRUGGLES OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND OUR ANCESTRY.  AND WE CELEBRATE

                    THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR ABOLITION AND FREEDOM, AND RECOGNITION OF OUR

                    HISTORY.

                                         109



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF WE COULD

                    NOW GO TO RULES REPORT NO. 212, IT'S ON THE MAIN CALENDAR, AND

                    IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THAT, WE'LL GO TO RULES REPORT NO. 348, THAT'S

                    ON THE MAIN CALENDAR, AS WELL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10628, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 212, COMMITTEE ON RULES (HYNDMAN, SIMOTAS, PERRY, LUPARDO,

                    SCHMITT, BUCHWALD RODRIGUEZ, REYES, BARRON).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    GENERAL -- THE GENERAL CONSTRUCTION LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING

                    JUNE NINETEENTH AS A PUBLIC HOLIDAY.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  ATTENDING SUNY NEW PALTZ WILL

                    ALWAYS BE ONE OF THE BEST DECISIONS MY PARENTS MADE FOR ME.  AS A

                    STUDENT IN THE BLACK STUDIES DEPARTMENT IS WHEN I BECAME ACQUAINTED

                    WITH JUNE 19TH, JUNE -- JUNETEENTH.  AND THE UNION ARMY GENERAL,

                    GORDON GRANGER, WHO WAS -- UNION ARMY MEANS HE WASN'T CARRYING A

                    CONFEDERATE FLAG, MARCHED INTO GALVESTON, TRANSPARENCY AND FREED

                    OVER 250,000 SLAVES TWO YEAR -- TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS AFTER THE

                    EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION.  THESE PEOPLE WERE STILL IN BONDAGE.

                    THAT MEANS TWO YEARS OF BEING SOLD, TWO YEARS OF SAYING GOODBYE TO

                    FAMILY MEMBERS, TWO YEARS OF BEING RAPED.  ADDITIONALLY, TWO YEARS OF

                                         110



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    SAYING GOODBYE TO CHILDREN; YOU'D NEVER KNOW IF THEY WERE -- BECAME

                    FULLY GROWN.  TWO YEARS OF BEING TOLD THAT YOU'RE NOTHING MORE THAN

                    PROPERTY, NOTHING MORE TO BE BOUGHT OR SOLD AT THE MARKETPLACE.  TWO

                    YEARS OF NOT KNOWING WHETHER EACH DAY ON EARTH WOULD BE YOUR LAST

                    DAY.

                                 AND SO, WHEN THOSE SLAVES WERE FREED, THEY LEFT THE

                    PLANTATIONS AND WENT AROUND LOOKING FOR LOST FAMILY MEMBERS TO SEE IF

                    THEY COULD FIND THEM.  THEY WENT INTO OTHER STATES THROUGHOUT THE --

                    THE UNION, LOOKING TO SEE IF THEY COULD FIND THE FAMILY MEMBERS WHO

                    WERE SOLD, LOOKING TO SEE IF THEY COULD FIND THOSE FAMILY MEMBERS THAT

                    MAYBE THEY HAD MARRIED THEM, THEY WERE SOLD.  AND THAT MEANT NO

                    MORE THAN WHAT -- THEY WERE GOING TO BE USED AS FREE LABOR TO CONTINUE

                    TO BUILD THIS COUNTRY.  SO, THEY LEFT THE -- THEY LEFT THE PLANTATIONS.  BUT

                    EVEN THAT WASN'T THE END OF DEGRADATION AND YOUR RIGHTS AS A HUMAN

                    BEING.

                                 BUT FOR JUNETEENTH IN THIS HOUSE, FOR THIS STATE, IT IS

                    PART OF THE AMERICAN HISTORY.  AND WE KNOW THAT AMERICAN HISTORY IS

                    ALL ENCOMPASSING.  AND THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S TAUGHT IN OUR

                    CLASSROOMS FOR THE USUALLY -- FOR THE K-12 AGE GROUPS.  I HAD TO LEARN

                    ABOUT THIS IN COLLEGE.  AND I THANK MY COLLEAGUES IN THE ASSEMBLY

                    WHEN WE DID OUR RESOLUTIONS AND CELEBRATIONS HERE RECOGNIZING

                    JUNETEENTH.  BUT AT THIS DATE AND THIS TIME IN THIS SOCIETY, WE KNOW

                    HOW IMPORTANT IT IS WITH THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT TO

                    ENCOMPASS THAT OUR HISTORY IS AMERICAN HISTORY AND OUR HISTORY, AS

                    DARK AS IT WAS THEN, IS WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY SO GREAT.  THAT WHEN

                                         111



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    JUNETEENTH IS OMITTED FROM THE HISTORY BOOKS, IN NEW YORK STATE

                    THERE'LL BE NOW -- IT WILL NOW BE A PUBLIC HOLIDAY.  A HOLIDAY THAT

                    PEOPLE WILL RECOGNIZE.  BUT WHAT DOES JUNETEENTH MEAN?  IT MEANS

                    FREEDOM.  IT MEANS JUSTICE.  IT MEANS THAT IN THIS COUNTRY WE HAVE TO

                    RECOGNIZE OUR HISTORY IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD.  AND THAT IS WHAT

                    JUNETEENTH MEANS TO ME.

                                 SO, I WANT TO THANK DR. MARGARET WADE-LEWIS, DR.

                    A.J. WILLIAMS-MYERS, DR. ZELBERT MOORE, DR. ROBERTS, DR. BRANCH, DR.

                    CHIKWENDU AND THE BLACK STUDIES DEPARTMENT AT SUNY NEW PALTZ

                    WHO TAUGHT A LOT OF STUDENTS FROM THE CITIES EXACTLY WHAT JUNETEENTH

                    MEANS, EXACTLY WHAT AMERICAN HISTORY MEANS AND WHAT IT MEANS TO

                    THIS COUNTRY MOVING FORWARD.  WE NEED THIS HOLIDAY AS A TIME TO

                    RECOGNIZE THE STRIFES OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS, AND THAT IS WHAT THIS

                    HOLIDAY BRINGS TO US.

                                 SO, WHILE WE KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL USE IT AS A

                    DAY OFF, FOR A LOT OF US IT WILL MEAN THE HISTORY AND CULTURE OF A TIME IN

                    1865 WHEN 250,000 INDIVIDUALS THAT LOOKED LIKE ME COULDN'T GET

                    MARRIED, COULDN'T RAISE THEIR FAMILIES, COULDN'T LIVE AS -- COULDN'T LIVE AS

                    FREE PERSONS.  SO THIS IS HISTORY IN THE MAKING.  I DO WANT TO THANK THE

                    GOVERNOR'S OFFICE FOR THE EXECUTIVE ORDER AND HIS COMMITMENT TO SIGN

                    THIS LEGISLATION WHEN IT COMES TO HIS DESK.  AND FOR OTHER STATES TO

                    FOLLOW NEW YORK STATE IN MAKING SURE THAT JUNETEENTH IS A -- NOT JUST A

                    HOLIDAY IN THIS STATE, BUT AROUND THE COUNTRY, RECOGNIZING THE HISTORY OF

                    AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN THIS COUNTRY.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MA'AM.

                                         112



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  I RISE TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND

                    CERTAINLY APPRECIATE NOW, THE GOVERNOR, FOR HIS EXECUTIVE ORDER FOR

                    JUNETEENTH DAY.  BUT LET ME JUST TELL YOU, 45 YEARS AGO IN THE GREAT CITY

                    OF BUFFALO, WE DECIDED WE WERE GOING TO CELEBRATE JUNETEENTH NO

                    MATTER WHAT.  AND NOT JUST THAT WE DECIDED TO DO LARGE PARADES THAT THE

                    ENTIRE COMMUNITY, AND NOT JUST THE BUFFALO COMMUNITY, BUT THE WHOLE

                    WESTERN NEW YORK COMMUNITY ENJOYED, BUT THERE WAS A SCHOOL STARTED

                    AROUND THE WHOLE IDEA OF BEING FREEISH, IF YOU WILL, CALLED THE BUILD

                    ACADEMY.  EVENTUALLY THROUGH -- THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, THAT SCHOOL DID

                    SUCH A GREAT JOB OF EDUCATING CHILDREN FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THEIR

                    HERITAGE AND THEIR CULTURE THAT THE SYSTEM DECIDED THAT THEY HAD TO BE

                    ENGAGED, THEY HAD TO CHANGE THE RULES THAT HAD BEEN SET UP TO EDUCATE

                    BLACK AND BROWN CHILDREN TO THE RULES THAT WENT ACROSS THE DISTRICT.

                    AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, THAT SCHOOL IS NOW ON A LOW ACHIEVING LIST.  AND

                    SO, YOU CAN SEE A DIFFERENCE WHEN BLACK PEOPLE GET ENGAGED IN THEIR

                    OWN CULTURE TO GIVE IT TO THEIR CHILDREN AND TO TEACH THEM THAT WAY,

                    THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE.  WHEN THAT IS ELIMINATED, YOU SEE THE RESULTS

                    OF THAT.

                                 NOW, I WANT TO SAY WHEN MR. PATAKI WAS GOVERNOR,

                    THAT HAD TO BE A COUPLE OF DECADES AGO, HE CAME INTO BUFFALO, HE WENT

                    ON MICHIGAN AVENUE WHERE THREE CENTURIES OF HISTORY HAVE BEEN

                    CREATED FOR BLACK PEOPLE AND HE SIGNED INTO LAW SOMETHING CALLED THE

                    AMISTAD LAW.  IT WAS LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED BY ASSEMBLYMEMBER

                                         113



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    KEITH WRIGHT THAT SAID THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT SHOULD INFUSE

                    THE HISTORY OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE INTO THE CURRICULUM, BECAUSE,

                    QUITE HONESTLY, AMERICAN HISTORY IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY.  TO THIS

                    DAY, THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED.  AND SO PERHAPS THREE GOVERNORS LATER, AN

                    EXECUTIVE ORDER TO CREATE A HOLIDAY AND THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION RIGHT

                    HERE WILL MOTIVATE NOT JUST THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, BUT ALL OF

                    US AS NEW YORKERS AND ALL OF US AS AMERICANS TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN

                    WE HIDE TRUTHS, WE CREATE PROBLEMS.  WE SHOULD PUT SOME LIGHT ON THE

                    TRUTH.  I THINK THIS LEGISLATION DOES THAT, BUT, AGAIN, I WANT TO HONOR THE

                    SPONSOR FOR SUBMITTING IT.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MR. BARRON.

                                 MR. BARRON:  ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. BARRON:  YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS HAVE A TOUGH

                    JOB UP HERE BECAUSE I'M WEDDED TO THE TRUTH.  BEWARE OF WOLVES IN

                    SHEEP CLOTHING, THE GOVERNOR.  THIS PROTEST THAT PUT SO MUCH PRESSURE

                    ON HIM THAT HE CAME OUT EARLY AND SAID, I WILL MAKE JUNETEENTH A

                    HOLIDAY; SEND ME THE BILL, I'LL SIGN IT, BECAUSE OF THE PROTESTS AND THE

                    PRESSURE.  THE REAL BILL HE NEEDS TO BE SIGNING ON TO AND WE NEED TO BE

                    PASSING IS THE REPARATIONS BILL.  WE NEED TO GET PAID FOR THESE YEARS OF

                    ENSLAVEMENT IN THIS STATE AND ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.  SO, TO AVOID THAT,

                    HE OPENLY SAYS, I WILL PASS A JUNETEENTH BILL.  AND I COMMEND THE

                    SPONSOR OF THIS BILL, I KNOW WHERE HER HEART IS AND HER SINCERITY IS, AND

                                         114



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    I SUPPORT THIS BILL 1,000 PERCENT.  BUT LET'S PRESSURE THIS GOVERNOR AND

                    THIS ASSEMBLY TO PASS A REPARATIONS BILL THAT IS THE REMEDY AND REALLY

                    THE ANSWER TO A LOT OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS STATE.

                                 AND TO THE MAJORITY LEADER, CRYSTAL PEOPLES-STOKES, I

                    WANT TO SAY I WAS THERE FOR SOME OF THE JUNETEENTH MARCHES AND -- AND

                    HER CONTINUED SUPPORT AND COMMITMENT TO REPARATIONS.

                                 NOW, LET ME GET TO THE BILL AND SOME OF THE HISTORY

                    AROUND JUNETEENTH.  I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THE WHITE GENERAL

                    GRANGER CAME INTO TRANSPARENCY AND WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT WE WERE FREE

                    FOR TWO YEARS AND HERE COMES THE -- THE WHITE CALVARY, GENERAL

                    GRANGER AND HE READ IT TO THEM AND WE JUMPED FOR JOY.  THAT DID NOT

                    HAPPEN.  IT WAS THE AFRICAN SOLDIERS.  IT WAS THE AFRICAN SOLDIERS.  AND

                    TWO OF THE BIGGEST LIES IN AMERICA IS THAT LINCOLN FREED THE SLAVES AND

                    COLUMBUS DISCOVERED AMERICA.  NEITHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED.

                    IN 1862, THE SOUTH WAS ACTUALLY WINNING THE CIVIL WAR AND IT WAS

                    ABOUT SAVING THE UNION.  TEN STATES LEFT THE UNION AND HEADED UP TO

                    THE CONFEDERACY, THEY HEAD UP THAT AND THEN FOUR SLAVE STATES STAYED

                    WITH THE UNION -- FOUR SLAVE STATES STAYED WITH THE UNION.

                                 BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE STATES THAT

                    STAYED WITH THE UNION, THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION SAID ALL OF

                    THOSE STATES THAT WERE IN REBELLION AGAINST THE UNION, LINCOLN WAS

                    CUNNING, SCHEMING, AND HE WAS THE RACIST.  HE WANTED TO FREE US AND

                    SEND US BACK TO AFRICA.  BUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT DOCUMENT, THE

                    EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION, SAID THAT ALL THE ENSLAVED AFRICANS IN THE

                    SLAVE STATES THAT LEFT THE UNION, YOUR SLAVES ARE FREE.  THE ONES WHO

                                         115



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    STAYED, THE ONES HE COULD HAVE FREED, HE SAID IT DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU

                    BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LEAVE.  SO THE ENSLAVED AFRICANS THAT HE HAD NO

                    LONGER JURISDICTION OVER, THEY WERE IN THE CONFEDERACY, THEY STARTED TO

                    LEAVE THE SOUTH AND COME UP NORTH, CROSS UNION LINES.  AND HE MADE

                    SLAVERY AN ISSUE WHEN HE SAID, IF I COULD FREE NO SLAVES AND SAVE THE

                    UNION, LINCOLN THIS IS, IF I CAN FREE SOME AND SAVE THE UNION, I'LL DO IT,

                    WE'VE GOT TO SAVE THE UNION.  LINCOLN DIDN'T WANT FRANCE AND ENGLAND

                    TO ENTER THE WAR ON THE SIDE OF THE CONFEDERACY BECAUSE THEY HAD

                    ABOLISHED SLAVERY, AND THEY DIDN'T ENTER THE WAR BECAUSE HE SAID WE'RE

                    GOING TO FREE ENSLAVED AFRICANS.

                                 SO, THE AFRICAN SOLDIERS, 75,000, 100,000, THERE WERE

                    3.5 MILLION ENSLAVED AFRICANS IN THE SOUTH, 500,000 UP NORTH AND THEY

                    STARTED COMING NORTH.  AND LINCOLN SAID AND FREDERICK DOUGLASS SAID

                    IF IT WASN'T FOR THE AFRICAN SOLDIERS, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE WON THE CIVIL

                    WAR.  SO THEY WENT FROM PLANTATION TO PLANTATION FREEING ENSLAVED

                    AFRICANS.  AND GUESS WHO WAS WITH THEM SOME OF THE WAY?  HARRIET

                    TUBMAN.  SHE JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE UNDERGROUND RAILROAD AND FREE 300,

                    SHE FREED 700 AS A LEADER, A SERGEANT OR A GENERAL IN THE UNION ARMY.

                                 THEY FINALLY GOT TO GALVESTON, TRANSPARENCY, THAT WAS

                    ONE OF THE LAST STOPS OF THE CAMPAIGN, THE MILITARY CAMPAIGN, AND WHEN

                    THEY GOT TO GALVESTON, TRANSPARENCY, IT WASN'T THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW, THEY

                    WEREN'T FREED YET.  SO 10,000 AFRICAN SOLDIERS CAME IN THERE WITH

                    GENERAL GRANGER.  GENERAL GRANGER WAS TRYING TO TELL THEM, YOU'RE

                    FREED, BUT ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO LEAVE?  BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHERE

                    ARE YOU GONNA GO?  WHAT KIND OF WORK ARE YOU GONNA HAVE?  THE

                                         116



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    AFRICAN SOLDIERS SAID, WE'RE FREE, LET US GO UNITE WITH OUR FAMILIES AND

                    LET'S DO THE RIGHT THING BY OUR PEOPLE.  THEY CAME INTO GALVESTON,

                    TRANSPARENCY IN 18 -- ON JUNE 15TH, AND IT TOOK THEM FOUR DAYS TO RUN

                    THE GOVERNOR AND THE 4,000 CONFEDERATE TROOPS OUT TO LIBERATE THEIR

                    PEOPLE.  IT'S THE AFRICAN SOLDIERS WHO DID THAT, NOT GENERAL GRANGER.

                    HE WAS TRYING TO TALK THEM INTO STAYING.

                                 AND SLAVERY DIDN'T END THEN BECAUSE THE ENSLAVED

                    AFRICANS IN THOSE STATES THAT LINCOLN COULD'VE FREED AND DIDN'T, THEY

                    STILL HAD THEIR ENSLAVED AFRICANS IN MARYLAND.  THEY STILL HAD THEIR

                    SLAVE AFRICANS IN THE FOUR STATES THAT WERE STILL HAVING SLAVERY.  IT

                    WASN'T UNTIL 1865 IN DECEMBER WHEN THEY RATIFIED THE 13TH

                    AMENDMENT -- IF THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION ENDED SLAVERY, YOU

                    WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED THE 13TH AMENDMENT.  YOU NEEDED THAT BECAUSE

                    IT DID NOT END SLAVERY.  AND THE LAST SLAVES WERE NOT IN GALVESTON,

                    TRANSPARENCY.  THAT WAS THE END OF THE MILITARY CAMPAIGN AND THEY

                    CELEBRATED.

                                 SO, WHILE JUNETEENTH IS A GOOD THING, IT'S A GOOD

                    HOLIDAY TO CELEBRATE, LET'S TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HISTORY.  THE 13TH --

                    AND THE 13TH AMENDMENT OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION SAYS SLAVERY

                    SHALL BE ABOLISHED EXCEPT AS A PUNISHMENT FOR CRIME.  WE WENT FROM

                    THE PLANTATION TO THE PENITENTIARY.  AND WE'RE STILL IN THE PENITENTIARY,

                    THOUSANDS OF US STILL PROVIDING FREE LABOR IN THE PENITENTIARY TO PRODUCE

                    PRODUCTS FOR CAPITALISM.

                                 SO, I CELEBRATE JUNETEENTH, BUT WE'RE GONNA CELEBRATE

                    THE TRUTH THAT COMES ALONG WITH JUNETEENTH.  I COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF

                                         117



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THIS.  I'M SUPPORTING IT 1,000 PERCENT.  BUT LET'S FIGHT FOR REPARATIONS.

                    LET'S NOT HIM -- LET HIM GET AWAY, THE GOVERNOR, WITH JUNETEENTH, A

                    HOLIDAY NOW, WHICH IS GOOD.  IT'S A GOOD THING.  BUT IF HE'S SERIOUS

                    ABOUT AFRICAN PEOPLE IN THIS STATE, THEN I HAVE A BILL RIGHT IN THE WAYS

                    AND MEANS COMMITTEE.  LET'S GET THAT BILL OUT THERE, LET'S SET UP THAT

                    COMMUNITY COMMISSION AND LET'S LOOK AT WHAT IS THE REMEDY FOR THE

                    ENSLAVEMENT OF AFRICANS HERE AND DURING JIM CROWISM.  THAT IS A

                    SERIOUS ISSUE.

                                 HEY, GOVERNOR, LET'S -- DO A PRESS CONFERENCE NOW, SAY

                    YOU SUPPORT REPARATIONS FOR AFRICAN PEOPLE SINCE YOU'RE SO CONCERNED

                    ABOUT US AND YOU SUPPORT A HOLIDAY IN JUNETEENTH, HOW ABOUT

                    REPARATIONS?  STRAIGHT AHEAD, FOR WHATEVER.  I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 212.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M

                    PLEASED TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AS WILL MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES, FOR

                    RECOGNIZING JUNETEENTH.  I JUST WANTED TO ALSO POINT OUT WHILE THERE ARE

                    OTHER DATES THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT HERE IN NEW YORK STATE THAT WE

                                         118



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    WANT TO CELEBRATE, AND SOME FOLKS MAY NOT REALIZE THAT JULY 4TH, IN

                    ADDITION TO BEING ONE, WHEN THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE WAS

                    SIGNED IN 1776, JULY 4TH, 1827 WAS THE DATE THAT NEW YORK OFFICIALLY

                    ENDED ALL SLAVERY.  AND SO, THAT'S ONE MORE REASON FOR US TO BE

                    CELEBRATING ON JULY 4TH.

                                 SO, IN SOME WAYS, JUNETEENTH REMINDS ME OF THE

                    FRUSTRATION THAT MANY OF US RECOGNIZE THAT IT TOOK ALMOST TWO YEARS FOR

                    WORD TO GET DOWN TO TRANSPARENCY, AND FOR TWO YEARS THOSE PEOPLE WERE

                    ENSLAVED AFTER THE WAR ENDED.  NOWADAYS, IT TAKES LESS THAN TWO

                    SECONDS TO GET NEWS AROUND THE WORLD.  SO, WE'VE MADE LOT OF PROGRESS,

                    BUT WE CERTAINLY HAVE A LOT MORE PROGRESS TO MAKE.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  MR.

                    GOODELL IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. JOHNS.

                                 MR. JOHNS:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  ON THE BILL -- OR TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. JOHNS:  WE TALKED ABOUT SOMETHING SIMILAR LAST

                    YEAR, AND THIS -- FIRST OF ALL, I'M GLAD TO SUPPORT AND BE ABLE TO VOTE FOR

                    THIS RULES REPORT.  I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO JUST GIVE A LITTLE BACKGROUND

                    ON MYSELF AND MY FAMILY.  AS I TOLD EVERYBODY LAST YEAR, MY FATHER

                    WAS A DISABLED VETERAN FROM WORLD WAR II, HAD ONE LEG AMPUTATED, THE

                    OTHER LEG MANGLED UP.  HE SPENT TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS IN WALTER REED

                                         119



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ARMY HOSPITAL, WHERE MY MOTHER HAPPENED TO BE WORKING.  AND

                    BESIDES ALL THAT -- THAT THEY WENT THROUGH, I REMEMBER -- I GREW UP IN

                    WEBSTER, NEW YORK, BUT MY MOTHER WOULD ALWAYS TELL ME ABOUT THE

                    KIND OF CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED DOWN IN WASHINGTON.  AND SHE

                    THOUGHT THAT, INVARIABLY, EVERY TIME A CRIME WAS COMMITTED, RAPE,

                    MURDER, ANY TYPE OF THUGGERY WHATSOEVER, THEY ALWAYS SEEMED TO FIND

                    A BLACK MAN AND BLAME IT ON HIM AND CONVICT HIM.

                                 NOW, I WAS FOUR, FIVE, SIX-YEARS-OLD, I HARDLY KNEW

                    ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.  AND MY MOTHER DROVE MY BROTHER

                    AND I, WHO WAS EVEN YOUNGER THAN I WAS, WE WENT TO GETTYSBURG, AND

                    THIS WAS IN THE LATE '50S, WE WENT TO GETTYSBURG AND THEN WE WENT

                    DOWN TO VIRGINIA, MY MOTHER TOLD US ABOUT THE OLD JIM CROW LAWS,

                    BLACK ONLY, WHITE ONLY DRINKING FOUNTAINS, BATHROOMS, I SAW IT FOR

                    MYSELF.  AND ANYBODY THAT -- AS OTHER SPEAKERS HAVE SAID HERE, BLACK

                    HISTORY IS AMERICAN HISTORY.  JUNE 19TH IS SIGNIFICANT FOR EVERYBODY IN

                    THIS COUNTRY.

                                 AND AS YOU KNOW, MR. SPEAKER, I TRY AND PLAY A LITTLE

                    BASKETBALL, NOT VERY GOOD, AND YOU'RE LAUGHING BECAUSE I'M BAD, BUT I

                    REMEMBER FROM AROUND THE YEAR 2000 TO 2010, I USED TO PLAY A LOT OF

                    OUTDOOR BALL, COBBS HILL UP IN ROCHESTER, AND A LOT OF TIMES I WAS THE

                    ONLY WHITE GUY, OR CERTAINLY THE ONLY OLD WHITE GUY, AND I WOULD TALK

                    WITH A LOT OF THE YOUNG GUYS UP THERE ABOUT JUNE 19TH, IT STARTED ROLLING

                    AROUND AND I'D SAY, WELL, WHAT ABOUT JUNE 19TH, JUNETEENTH, AND THESE

                    WERE A LOT OF YOUNG AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN THAT WENT TO SCHOOL IN THE

                    CITY OF ROCHESTER, THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

                                         120



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 SO, IT'S AMERICAN HISTORY.  IT'S BLACK HISTORY.  THANK

                    GOD THAT RECENTLY IT'S COME TO LIGHT AND IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT DATE IN OUR

                    COUNTRY'S HISTORY.  SO MUCH SO THAT EVEN A LOT OF YOUNG

                    AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE NEVER BEEN TAUGHT IT IN SCHOOL.  I HAD A

                    BACKGROUND BECAUSE OF MY MOTHER TO LEARN A LOT OF THINGS IN LIFE THAT

                    EVERYBODY DOESN'T GET A CHANCE TO UNDERSTAND AND SEE, BUT I'M GLAD

                    TODAY TO BE A -- A CO-SPONSOR ON THIS BILL AND TO BE ABLE TO VOTE FOR IT.

                    THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY, SIR.  MR.

                    JOHNS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. BARRON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BARRON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I JUST

                    WANT TO MENTION TWO OTHER THINGS VERY QUICKLY.  ONE, THAT WE OFTEN SAY

                    THAT OUR HISTORY IS AMERICA'S HISTORY, AND I KNOW THAT'S A FAMOUS AND

                    UNITING THING TO SAY.  BUT AMERICA'S HISTORY IS NOT OUR HISTORY.  WE ARE

                    -- WE ARE VICTIMS OF AMERICAN HISTORY, AND WE SHOULD BE VERY CLEAR ON

                    THAT.

                                 AND THEN, TO MENTION THE 4TH OF JULY WITH JUNETEENTH

                    IS AN INSULT.  THE 4TH OF JULY, WHEN BETSY ROSS WAS STITCHING THE

                    AMERICAN FLAG IN 1776, WE WERE CATCHING STITCHES IN SLAVERY.  I WANT

                    TO SUGGEST TO ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES THAT THEY READ FREDERICK DOUGLASS'

                    SPEECH ON WHAT THE 4TH OF JULY MEANS TO ME, OR MEANS TO BLACK

                    PEOPLE.  WE SHOULDN'T EVEN CELEBRATE IT.  WE WERE IN SUCH BAD

                    CONDITIONS WHEN THIS COUNTRY FIRST STARTED.  SO, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE

                    SURE THAT IT'S NOT TAINTED WITH THE 4TH OF JULY.  THIS IS A HOLIDAY THAT

                                         121



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    WE'LL BE CELEBRATING SEPARATE FROM THAT, NOT IN ADDITION TO IT.

                                 AND THEN FINALLY, THE AMISTAD CURRICULUM THAT THE

                    MAJORITY LEADER SPOKE OF, WE NEED TO FIGHT FOR THAT.  WE NEED TO HAVE

                    MANDATORY AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY IN ALL OF OUR SCHOOLS IN THIS STATE.

                    THAT IS SOMETHING SOLID TO GO ALONG WITH JUNETEENTH AND TO GO ALONG

                    WITH REPARATIONS.  I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BARRON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 FROM THE B-CALENDAR, RULES REPORT NO. 348.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10831, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 348, COMMITTEE ON RULES (PRETLOW).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE DESIGNATION OF ABOLITION

                    COMMEMORATION DAY AS A DAY OF COMMEMORATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE

                    BILL.

                                 IN 1626, THE DUTCH WEST INDIES COMPANY BROUGHT THE

                    FIRST 11 SLAVES TO NEW AMSTERDAM.  THE FIRST SLAVE AUCTION IN NEW

                    YORK WAS HELD IN 1655, AND BY 1703 OVER 40 PERCENT OF NEW YORK

                                         122



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    HOUSEHOLDS HAD SLAVES.  THE ROAD TO FREEDOM WAS LONG, ARDUOUS AND

                    DANGEROUS.  A NUMBER OF ABOLITIONIST NEWSPAPERS WERE PUBLISHED BY

                    AFRICAN-AMERICANS, SUCH AS THE THE ELEVATOR, WHICH WAS PUBLISHED

                    RIGHT HERE IN ALBANY, NEW YORK BY STEPHEN MYERS AND BACKED BY

                    HORACE GREELEY, GERRIT SMITH AND OTHER WHITE ABOLITIONISTS.  STEPHEN

                    MYERS AND HIS WIFE, HARRIET JOHNSON, ALSO OPERATED THE ALBANY STATION

                    OF THE UNDERGROUND RAILROAD, WHICH HELPED FUGITIVE SLAVES MAKE THEIR

                    WAY TO CANADA, AND WAS KNOWN AS THE MOST ORGANIZED SECTION OF THE

                    RAILROAD.  THE GREAT FREDERICK DOUGLASS ALSO WAS A WELL-KNOWN FOR HIS

                    PUBLICATION, THE NORTH STAR, AS WELL AS HIS FAMOUS SPEECHES.  OTHERS,

                    LIKE SOJOURNER TRUTH, USED THEIR VOICES TO ADVOCATE NATIONALLY FOR THE

                    ABOLISHMENT OF SLAVERY AND TO ENSURE THAT THE CONTRIBUTIONS AND PLIGHT

                    OF WOMEN WAS INCLUDED IN THE NARRATIVE AROUND EMANCIPATION.

                                 AND WHILE NEW YORK LATER BECAME KNOWN AS A FREE

                    STATE, MANY ABOLITIONISTS, LIKE HARRIET TUBMAN, HELPED AFRICAN SLAVES

                    ESCAPE ON THE UNDERGROUND RAILROAD THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, AND

                    SPECIFICALLY HERE IN NEW YORK.  TUBMAN AND OTHERS USED THEIR

                    PLATFORMS IN NEW YORK STATE TO CALL FOR THE ABOLISHMENT OF SLAVERY

                    THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES.  THERE ARE ALSO COUNTLESS DOCUMENTED

                    AND UNDOCUMENTED UPRISINGS BY ENSLAVED AFRICANS WHO FOUGHT FOR

                    THEIR FREEDOM AND THE MANY UNSUNG HEROES WHO SPOKE OUT AGAINST

                    SLAVERY WHEN IT WAS UNPOPULAR AND DANGEROUS TO DO SO.  FOR THESE

                    PEOPLE, NEW YORK STATE OWES A GREAT DEBT AND MUST BE ACKNOWLEDGED

                    FOR THEIR SACRIFICES AND CONTRIBUTED FOR A MORE UNIFIED AND STRONGER

                    STATE.

                                         123



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 THE ABOLISHMENT OF SLAVERY WAS NOT THE RESULT OF ONE

                    PERSON'S DOING, RATHER, IT WAS A COLLECTIVE MOVEMENT.  NOTHING CAN

                    REMOVE THE GENERATIONAL DAMAGES CREATED AS A RESULT OF THE

                    TRANSATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE; HOWEVER, A CIVILIZED STATE CAN DO NO LESS

                    THAN TO SET ASIDE ONE DAY A YEAR TO HONOR THE BRAVE ABOLITIONISTS AND

                    ATONE FOR HAVING ENGAGED IN THE PROCESS OF MAINTAINING EXPLETIVE --

                    EXPLOITIVE, ABRASIVE SLAVISH SOCIETY FOR COUNTLESS GENERATIONS.

                                 IN 1817, THE NEW YORK STATE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

                    PASSED THE MANUMISSION BILL, WHICH FREED SLAVES TEN YEARS LATER.

                    SLAVES WEREN'T FREED, THEY WERE FREED GRADUALLY AND IT DIDN'T TAKE FULL

                    EFFECT UNTIL JANUARY -- UNTIL JULY 4TH, 1827.  BUT AS NOTED BY ONE OF OUR

                    COLLEAGUES, JULY 4TH WAS NOT THE DATE THAT AFRICAN FORMER SLAVES

                    CELEBRATED.  THEY CELEBRATED ON JULY 5TH BECAUSE AS FREDRICK DOUGLASS

                    SAID, JULY 4TH WAS NOT YET SET ASIDE FOR US.

                                 SO, WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I WANT TO THANK THE --  THE

                    SPEAKER FOR BEING BEHIND THIS BILL.  I SEE SENATOR BAILEY HAS ALREADY

                    PASSED IT IN THE SENATE.  AND THIS WILL SET ASIDE THE SECOND MONDAY IN

                    JULY OF EVERY YEAR TO HONOR ALL THE ABOLITIONISTS IN THE UNITED STATES.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    PRETLOW.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO RISE AND CONGRATULATE THE SPONSOR OF

                    THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  I THINK THIS IS A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT -- IN FACT,

                                         124



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    I PROBABLY DIDN'T REALIZE HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS GIVEN THAT I GREW UP IN A

                    COMMUNITY IN AND AROUND A LOT OF ABOLITIONISTS.  AS YOU KNOW, HARRIET

                    TUBMAN ACTUALLY STILL OWNS LAND IN AUBURN.  SHE WAS ACTUALLY BURIED

                    BY THE FUNERAL HOME OF OUR DEAR COLLEAGUE, MR. FINCH.  SHE HAS A TON

                    OF LAND THERE.  I GREW UP IN THE AME ZION CHURCH WHERE WE ALWAYS

                    WENT THROUGHOUT THE SUMMERS TO -- FOR YOUTH COUNSELING AND FOR

                    EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES.

                                 AND SO, WHEN I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO ISRAEL

                    EARLIER THIS YEAR, PRE-PANDEMIC, AND I HAD A CHANCE TO GO TO THE

                    HOLOCAUST MUSEUM AND NOTICED THE WAY THEY REALLY HONOR THE

                    ABOLITIONISTS WHO HELPED THE JEWISH PEOPLE AS THEY SUFFERED THROUGH

                    THE HOLOCAUST.  IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT -- HOW POWERFUL ABOLITIONISTS

                    REALLY ARE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE

                    NECESSARILY BEING HURT, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PEOPLE LIKE FREDERICK

                    DOUGLASS, CLEARLY WAS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN MAN, BUT GENERALLY, THEY

                    ARE WHITE PEOPLE AND THEY'RE HELPING OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON'T EVEN

                    HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCE THEY HAVE, WHICH REALLY BRINGS TO ME THE REAL

                    HUMANITY OF THE WORLD.  AND UNLESS YOU KNOW THAT EVEN THOUGH THERE

                    ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T LOOK LIKE YOU WHO ARE WILLING TO HURT YOU,

                    THERE ARE ALSO SOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T LOOK LIKE YOU WHO ARE WILLING TO

                    HELP YOU.

                                 SO, I REALLY HONOR THE FACT THAT MR. PRETLOW WOULD SEE

                    IT RIGHT TO MAKE IT A DAY FOR THE ABOLITIONIST MOVEMENT.  AND I HOPE

                    THAT AS WE BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE CELEBRATE SO MANY THINGS IN

                    LIFE, THAT WE WILL CELEBRATE ABOLITIONISTS, AS WELL.  AND SO, AGAIN, I WANT

                                         125



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    TO CONGRATULATE HIM ON THAT AND JUST SAY HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR THIS

                    STORY OFFICIALLY TO GO FORWARD.  I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW UNTIL NOT LONG AGO

                    THAT FORMER GOVERNOR SEWARD WAS -- HAD A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH

                    HARRIET TUBMAN, AND HE ACTUALLY HELPED HER GET ACCESS TO A LOT OF THE

                    LAND THAT SHE -- IT'S STILL IN HER FAMILY IN -- IN THE GREAT AREA OF AUBURN.

                                 LASTLY, I WILL SAY THIS, JUST IN -- ON THESE TWO TOPICS,

                    WE FOUGHT FOR FIVE YEARS TO GET A SIGN UP, MAYBE LONGER THAN THAT, MR.

                    SPEAKER, TO GET A SIGN UP ON THE THRUWAY THAT SAYS, THIS EXIT FOR THE

                    HARRIET TUBMAN HOME.  WELL, IT'S ABOUT THIS BIG (INDICATING).  WHEN

                    YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE GIANT SIGNS ALONG THE 90 AND YOU GET CLOSE TO THE

                    EXIT, AND THAT'S THE ONE THAT SAYS 41, THE SIGN IS ABOUT THIS BIG

                    (INDICATING), BUT IT WILL TELL YOU THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY GO AND SEE WHERE

                    PEOPLE LIKE HARRIET TUBMAN LIVED, SEE WHERE FREDERICK DOUGLASS

                    VISITED, SEE WHERE GOVERNOR SEWARD ACTUALLY -- BECAUSE HE HAS A LOT OF

                    HISTORY IN THAT AREA, AS WELL.

                                 AND SO I THINK FOR US AS A PEOPLE, NO MATTER WHAT OUR

                    ETHNICITY IS, WE SHOULD ALWAYS BE IN SEARCH OF HISTORY.  WE SHOULD

                    ALWAYS BE IN SEARCH OF HISTORY.  AND SO, AGAIN, I WANT TO CONGRATULATE

                    THE SPONSOR AND THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE COMMENTS ON

                    THIS BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         126



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 348.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. REILLY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I JUST WANT

                    TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS BILL.  I WANTED TO SHARE THAT IN MY DISTRICT I

                    STARTED DOING A -- WALKING AROUND AND I USE THE HASHTAG

                    #AROUNDTHE62AD, AND, YOU KNOW, I -- I GREW UP IN BROOKLYN, I

                    MOVED OUT TO STATEN ISLAND WHEN I WAS 19, AND THEN TO THE SOUTH

                    SHORE, THE 62ND ASSEMBLY DISTRICT AFTER I GOT MARRIED IN 2000.  SO, I

                    MOVED OUT HERE IN 2003.  WHAT I SHARE ABOUT MY WALKS IS I FOUND A

                    DEEP CONNECTION WITH -- WHICH IS INSIDE THE 62ND ASSEMBLY DISTRICT,

                    SANDY GROUND, WHICH IS THE FIRST FREE BLACK SETTLEMENT IN NEW YORK

                    STATE.  AND IT WAS A GREAT LEARNING EXPERIENCE FOR MYSELF REPRESENTING

                    THIS AREA.  AND I CONTINUALLY WALK BY THERE AND SEE THE GRAVES OF THOSE

                    FORMER SLAVES THAT ARE -- THAT WERE FREED, AND IT'S -- IT'S DEEPLY MOVING.

                                 ANOTHER SPOT THAT I SAW AND I WAS ABLE TO HIGHLIGHT

                    WAS THE MEMORIAL FOR FREDRICK DOUGLASS, WHICH IS ALSO IN THE 62ND

                    ASSEMBLY DISTRICT.  SO, HEARING -- I'VE BECOME VERY AWARE OF THE

                    HISTORY AND -- AND THE STRUGGLES THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY HERE.  BUT I JUST

                    WANTED TO SHARE THAT IF ANYBODY'S INTERESTED IN VISITING THE 62ND AND

                    SEEING SANDY GROUND AND THE FREDERICK DOUGLASS MEMORIAL IN

                    OAKWOOD, I WOULD GLADLY ACCOMPANY THEM.  BUT I, ONCE AGAIN, I THINK

                    THIS IS A PROUD MOMENT AND A PROUD LEGISLATION TO SUPPORT, SO I VOTE IN

                                         127



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. REILLY IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  -- RETURN TO OUR DEBATE

                    LIST, WE WANT TO GO RIGHT BACK TO MR. EPSTEIN AND RULES REPORT NO.

                    221, THEN RULES REPORT NO. 222 BY MR. LAVINE AND RULES REPORT NO.

                    224 BY MR. ZEBROWSKI.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01436-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 221, EPSTEIN, L. ROSENTHAL, DE LA ROSA, SIMOTAS, TAYLOR,

                    GOTTFRIED, ENGLEBRIGHT, ARROYO, AUBRY, DICKENS, WEPRIN, CRUZ,

                    MOSLEY, CRESPO, D'URSO, ORTIZ, ABBATE, HYNDMAN, BLAKE, RIVERA,

                    ROZIC, STERN, COOK, KIM, CYMBROWITZ, D. ROSENTHAL, FALL, SEAWRIGHT,

                    REYES, RODRIGUEZ, GLICK, FRONTUS, QUART, JEAN-PIERRE, GRIFFIN, HUNTER,

                    FERNANDEZ, RAMOS, RICHARDSON, OTIS, LIFTON, DINOWITZ, CARROLL,

                    ABINANTI, BARRON, O'DONNELL, SIMON, FAHY, WRIGHT, STECK, VANEL,

                    M.G. MILLER, NIOU, SAYEGH, MAGNARELLI, PICHARDO, DARLING, WALKER,

                    WILLIAMS, PERRY, BUCHWALD, PAULIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL

                    SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO REPORTING OF YOUTH PLACED IN FOSTER CARE

                    SETTINGS AND RECRUITMENT OF FOSTER PARENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                                         128



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    REQUESTED, MR. EPSTEIN.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  SO IN NEW YORK STATE THERE ARE

                    NUMEROUS CHILDREN IN FOSTER CARE AND THEY'RE IN CARE FOR VARIOUS

                    PURPOSES THERE -- BECAUSE THEY'RE HERE FOR FEDERAL -- FEDERAL REASONS OR

                    STATE REASONS, AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY GOOD INFORMATION ABOUT WHY

                    THEY'RE HERE, WHAT SERVICES THEY HAVE, THEY'RE IN GROUP HOMES, FAMILY

                    HOMES, WE NEED THAT INFORMATION.  THIS BILL PROVIDES A COMPREHENSIVE

                    LIST OF KIDS IN CARE IN NEW YORK STATE SO WE CAN, THEN, USE THAT

                    INFORMATION AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  HAPPY TO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU.  SO, WHEN I FIRST READ THE

                    BILL, I -- I GUESS I FLAGGED IT BECAUSE I JUST FOUND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO

                    BELIEVE THAT WE DIDN'T ALREADY HAVE DATA LIKE THIS.  DOESN'T THE

                    DEPARTMENTS OF SOCIAL SERVICES MAINTAIN DATA ON HOW MANY CHILDREN

                    ARE IN FOSTER CARE AND WHERE THEY ARE?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  SO, THIS INFORMATION IS NOT AVAILABLE.

                    THIS -- ESPECIALLY WHERE THE KIDS ARE, WHAT KIND OF CARE THEY'RE IN.

                    THEY DON'T HAVE A -- A LIST OF THIS INFORMATION AND THIS IS REALLY AN

                    IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO AS FAR AS WHERE THEY ARE, DOES THIS

                    ENVISION THAT THERE WOULD BE LISTS, DATA, SHOWING, YOU KNOW, ADDRESSES

                    OF WHERE THE KIDS ARE?  NO, RIGHT?

                                         129



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  OF COURSE NOT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THIS IS JUST AGGREGATED INFORMATION.

                    WE HAVE, JUST IN MAKING UP A NUMBER, 1,000 KIDS IN GROUP FOSTER

                    HOMES, 1,000 KIDS IN FOSTER HOMES, AND THESE KIDS ARE IN KINSHIP

                    HOMES AND OUT OF THAT 1,000, 300 ARE FROM FEDERAL CUSTODY AND 600,

                    700 ARE FROM NEW YORK STATE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YOU -- YOU'VE MENTIONED FEDERAL A

                    COUPLE OF TIMES.  I DID READ THE MEMO THAT ACCOMPANIED THE BILL AND IT

                    DID SEEM AS THOUGH POSSIBLY PART OF THE IMPETUS FOR THE BILL WAS THE --

                    THE FEDERAL PLACEMENT OF SOME CHILDREN IN FOSTER CARE WHO WERE -- HAD

                    BEEN SEPARATED FROM THEIR PARENTS POSSIBLY OR OTHER ADULTS WHEN

                    CROSSING INTO THE UNITED STATES THAT -- IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  I -- THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS

                    VERSIONS OF THE BILL AND EARLIER ON, IT WAS -- IT WAS MORE FOCUSED ON THE

                    CHILDREN IN FEDERAL CARE THAT WERE HERE IN NEW YORK.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEAH.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  BUT WHEN WE DUG DEEPER INTO IT, WE

                    REALIZED THAT NOT ONLY DO WE WANT TO KNOW THE -- HOW MANY CHILDREN

                    FROM FEDERAL CARE ARE IN OUR STATE, BUT ALSO, WE NEEDED A BETTER DATA

                    ABOUT KIDS WHO ARE IN STATE CARE, AS WELL, AND WHERE THEY'RE PLACED AND

                    WHAT'S BEING OFFERED TO THEM.

                                 MS. WALSH:  ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                         130



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO, AS MANY PEOPLE KNOW I -- I

                    WORKED FOR A FEW YEARS IN -- FOR -- AS AN ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY

                    REPRESENTING FOSTER CARE IN MY -- IN MY COUNTY, AND ALSO CHILD

                    PROTECTIVE SERVICES.  SO, I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF FAMILIARITY WITH THE FOSTER

                    CARE SYSTEM AT LEAST IN THE SMALL AREA THAT I -- WHERE I LIVE.  I ALSO DID A

                    LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH AND IT LOOKS AS THOUGH THERE WAS SOMETHING CALLED

                    THE FEDERAL FAMILY FIRST PREVENTION SERVICES ACT OF 2018, THE FFPSA.

                    IT WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AS PART OF PUBLIC LAW 115 TO 123.  AND IT

                    REQUIRED STATES TO COMPILE SOME OF THE FOSTER CARE DATA THAT IS REQUIRED

                    BY THIS BILL.  AND, INTERESTINGLY, I THOUGHT, AS PART OF OUR FISCAL YEAR

                    2019, NEW YORK STATE BUDGET, IT WAS ASSEMBLY BILL NO. A09503-C,

                    WE APPROPRIATED IN FUNDING FOR LOCAL SOCIAL SERVICE DISTRICTS TO ASSIST

                    WITH REPORTING ON THE TOTAL NUMBER OF CHILDREN IN FOSTER CARE.  BUT I

                    NOTICE THAT THIS BILL DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY SUCH FUNDING.

                                 SO, I DO THINK THAT IT IS A PRETTY EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF

                    THINGS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE REPORTED, AND MUCH LIKE I -- I

                    COMMENTED ON AN EARLIER DEBATE WITH THE SPONSOR OF A DIFFERENT

                    REPORTING KIND OF BILL, I DO THINK THAT, OF COURSE, IT IS ABSOLUTELY

                    NECESSARY THAT WE UNDERSTAND HOW MANY CHILDREN ARE IN FOSTER CARE.

                    SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE PART OF THIS BILL THAT ARE GOING TO BE

                    REQUIRED I THINK MIGHT BE GOING MAYBE A LITTLE TOO FAR, BUT -- I MEAN I --

                    I WILL SUPPORT THIS, I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO

                    BE CAREFUL WHEN WE'RE DOING THESE REPORT BILLS THAT THIS IS INFORMATION

                    THAT'S NOT JUST DUPLICATIVE, IT'S NOT JUST AN ADDITIONAL MANDATE OR BURDEN

                                         131



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THAT WE'RE PUTTING ON OUR LOCAL SOCIAL SERVICES DISTRICTS BECAUSE AS -- AS

                    I STATED EARLIER -- EVEN EARLIER TODAY, I JUST THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT

                    WITH THE LIMITED RESOURCES THAT OUR DEPARTMENTS OF SOCIAL SERVICES

                    HAVE, I'D RATHER SEE THEM TAKE THEIR TIME AND THEIR ENERGY INTO ACTUALLY

                    PROVIDING SERVICES THAN IN HAVING TO FILL OUT REPORTS.  BUT I WILL BE

                    SUPPORTING THE BILL AND I THANK THE SPONSOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MR. EPSTEIN.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  JUST ON THE BILL.  I JUST WANT TO JUST

                    GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE BILL.  THIS -- SO THAT WE

                    WOULD NEED TO KNOW THE TOTAL NUMBER OF CHILDREN WHO ARE PLACED INTO

                    CARE AND THE -- AND WILL HAVE THAT INFORMATION OVER TIME.  IT WILL BE

                    CUMULATIVE INFORMATION, SO WE'LL KNOW QUARTER-BY-QUARTER AFTER THE

                    FIRST YEAR OF THE REPORTING, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THEY'RE VOLUNTARY

                    PLACEMENTS OR THEY'RE REMOVAL FROM PARENTS DUE TO SOME KIND OF

                    FAMILY COURT ACT.  WILL, YOU KNOW -- NEEDS -- SPECIAL NEEDS, ARE THERE

                    SERVICES RECEIVED BY THESE CHILDREN?  AND MAYBE THESE CHILDREN HAVE

                    BEEN PREVIOUSLY PLACED IN CARE AND THAT AGENCIES THAT THEY'RE BEING

                    PLACED WITH AND WHAT PREVENTATIVE SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE, EITHER THEY'RE

                    IN A RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT PROGRAM OR OTHER GROUP HOME.  THIS SERVICE

                    REPORT WILL HAPPEN IN DECEMBER OF 2021 AND THEN QUARTERLY AFTER THAT.

                                 AND SO, WHY IS THIS INFORMATION?  THIS INFORMATION IS

                    IMPORTANT BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR US AS A

                    GOVERNMENT TO HAVE.  IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO KNOW AS THE MAKING OF THIS

                    PUBLICLY AVAILABLE SO THE PUBLIC WILL KNOW HOW WE ARE DOING WITH OUR

                    FOSTER CARE POPULATION.  AND THEN, AND AS WE CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR

                                         132



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    RESOURCES, THIS WILL BE GOOD TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE NEED TO PROVIDE

                    RESOURCES.

                                 FOSTER CARE IS A REALLY DIFFICULT TIME IN PEOPLE'S LIVES.

                    I, EARLIER IN MY CAREER, I WAS A FOSTER CARE WORKER IN THE SOUTH BRONX

                    IN THE EARLY '90S AND THE ISSUES THAT THE YOUNG PEOPLE WERE

                    EXPERIENCING WERE REALLY TRAUMATIC AND WE NEED ADDITIONAL SUPPORT

                    AND RESOURCES.  AND THE GOAL THERE IS WITH THE DATA, WITH THE

                    INFORMATION, WE WILL BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THE SUPPORT THE FOSTER CARE

                    AGENCIES NEED AND THE FOSTER CARE FAMILIES NEED TO BRING THEIR LIVES

                    TOGETHER.  AND THAT'S CRITICALLY WHAT WE WANT.  WE WANT KIDS TO GO

                    HOME, WE WANT KIDS TO BE WITH THEIR FAMILIES, WE DON'T WANT KIDS

                    SEPARATED FROM THEIR PARENTS WHETHER THEY'RE IN FEDERAL CARE OR STATE

                    CARE.  WE WANT TO REUNITE FAMILIES AND THIS DATA REPORTING BILL WILL HELP

                    US GET THERE.

                                 I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES, I WANT TO THANK

                    PROGRAM AND COUNSEL STAFF FOR HELPING US GET THIS BILL.  AND I

                    ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO SUPPORT THIS BILL BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A

                    CRITICAL PIECE OF INFORMATION WE NEED.  THANK YOU ALL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    EPSTEIN.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 221.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                                         133



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02644, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 222, LAVINE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PROHIBITING PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS OR ENTITIES TO PAY FOR THE ADMINISTRATIVE

                    EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH THE CONDUCT OF A REFERENDUM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.  FOR MY COLLEAGUES, YOU KNOW,

                    THIS -- THIS BILL -- AND I -- I WOULD SAY I SUPPORT THE INTENT, BUT NOT THE

                    WAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING ABOUT IT HERE.

                                 SO, YEARS BACK ON LONG ISLAND, THERE WAS A PUBLIC

                    REFERENDUM THAT -- THAT WENT OUT AND THIS STEMS FROM THAT SITUATION

                    BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE VOTERS WERE GOING TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO

                    APPROVE, YOU KNOW, AN EXPENDITURE OF -- OF PUBLIC FUNDS, BUT IT ALSO

                    WAS GOING TO BE A BENEFIT TO A PRIVATE ORGANIZATION.  AND THE OFFER WAS

                    MADE THAT THEY WOULD PAY FOR THE COST OF THAT REFERENDUM.  AND A

                    COUNTY THE SIZE OF NASSAU COUNTY, IT'S A LARGE NUMBER OF -- OF VOTERS

                    AND HAVING A REFERENDUM REQUIRES STAFFING POLLING SITES AND BRINGING

                    OUT ALL THE, YOU KNOW, VOTING MACHINES AND COUNTING ALL THE VOTES AND

                                         134



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE -- WE'RE USED TO SEEING IN ANY ELECTION.  AND I

                    THINK AT SOME LEVEL, IT'S FAIR TO SAY IF A PRIVATE ENTITY -- ENTITY IS GOING

                    TO BENEFIT, PERHAPS THEY SHOULD PAY FOR THE COURSE -- COST OF

                    REIMBURSING THE MUNICIPALITY FOR THE COST.

                                 THE PROBLEM WITH THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION WAS THE

                    AGREEMENT WAS WE WILL PAY FOR IT IF IT PASSES AND WE GET THE BENEFIT.  IT

                    ENDED UP FAILING AND THE COUNTY, YOU KNOW, HAD -- HAD TO PAY THE COST.

                    SO, IF THIS WAS A BILL THAT SAID THAT THE PRIVATE ENTITY COULDN'T CONDITION

                    PAYING THE COST OR COULDN'T CONDITION REIMBURSING THE MUNICIPALITY ON

                    GETTING A SUCCESSFUL RESULT THEY LIKE, I WOULD BE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT

                    SUPPORTIVE OF THAT.  I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE, THAT, YOU KNOW, IT

                    SHOULDN'T BE, TAXPAYERS, YOU'RE ON THE HOOK IF I DON'T -- IF I DON'T GET

                    MY BENEFIT, BUT IF I DO I'LL -- I'LL PAY FOR IT.  BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS BILL

                    DOES.  THIS BILL WOULD COMPLETELY MAKE IT NOT LEGAL TO HAVE THAT PRIVATE

                    ENTITY PAY THE COSTS OF THE REFERENDUM.  AND -- AND I THINK IF A PRIVATE

                    ENTITY IS GETTING A BENEFIT, YOU KNOW, IT -- THERE SHOULD BE THE ABILITY

                    WHEN YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF PROJECT THAT DOES HAVE TO GO OUT TO A

                    PUBLIC VOTE, THAT THE MUNICIPALITY CAN PERHAPS HAVE THAT CONVERSATION

                    WITH THE DEVELOPER AND SAY, LISTEN, WE HAVE TO PUT THIS OUT FOR A VOTE,

                    IT COSTS X, AND MAYBE AS PART OF THE NEGOTIATION WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO

                    AGREE TO REIMBURSE THE COUNTY FOR THE COSTS OF CONDUCTING THAT

                    REFERENDUM.  I THINK -- I THINK IT'S FAIR THAT -- THAT THERE WOULD BE -- THAT

                    SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAPPEN.  I -- I DON'T THINK THIS APPROACH WHERE THAT

                    COULDN'T HAPPEN IS -- IS THE RIGHT ONE.

                                 AGAIN, I WOULD SUPPORT LEGISLATION THAT SAID YOU CAN

                                         135



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    PAY REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME, NOT WITH THE CONDITION PAYING, YOU

                    KNOW, WHETHER -- WHETHER IT'S TO YOUR BENEFIT OR NOT.  THAT WAS THE

                    PROBLEM IN THE INSTANCE THAT THIS AROSE FROM.  I DON'T THINK THAT THE

                    GENERAL IDEA OF -- OF THE PRIVATE ENTITY PAYING IS -- IS THE PROBLEM.  SO,

                    I -- I THANK, YOU KNOW, THE SPONSOR FOR PUTTING THIS FORWARD AGAIN.  I,

                    YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND HIS -- HIS INTENT, BUT -- BUT I THINK

                    THERE'S -- THERE'S A BETTER WAY TO DO THIS THAT BOTH CAN PRODUCTING --

                    PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE -- THE PROCESS OF PUTTING OUT THAT

                    REFERENDUM, BUT ALSO RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT A PRIVATE ENTITY IS GETTING A

                    BENEFIT AND THAT THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO THEN PAY THE COSTS OR REIMBURSE

                    THE COSTS TO THE TAXPAYERS.  SO, I'LL BE CASTING MY VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU, MR. RA.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 222.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO

                    THIS BILL.  IF THERE ARE THOSE WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE THAT

                    WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT IT, PLEASE CONTACT THE MINORITY OFFICE SO WE CAN

                                         136



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    PROPERLY RECORD YOUR VOTE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS

                    LEGISLATION.  THOSE WHO DESIRE NOT TO BE IN SUPPORT SHOULD FEEL FREE TO

                    CONTACT OUR OFFICES AND WE WILL RECORD YOUR VOTE IN ACCORDANCE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. LAVINE AS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  SO,

                    WELL-FINANCED INDIVIDUALS AND -- ENTITIES, ASSOCIATIONS, CORPORATIONS,

                    BUSINESSES SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BUY ELECTIONS.  THIS LEGISLATION ENSURES

                    A FAIR AND AN EQUITABLE BALLOT PROCESS THAT PREVENTS SPECIAL INTERESTS

                    FROM PLACING COUNTLESS REFERENDUMS BEFORE VOTERS BECAUSE THEY ARE

                    ABLE TO FINANCE THE ELECTIONS.  IT ALSO PREVENTS GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES

                    AND MUNICIPALITIES FROM FORCING PRIVATE PEOPLE TO PAY FOR THE COSTS

                    ASSOCIATED WITH ELECTIONS.  IN 2011, NASSAU COUNTY'S THEN COUNTY

                    EXECUTIVE, WHO NOW, ALONG WITH HIS WIFE, AWAITS SENTENCE FOR FEDERAL

                    CORRUPTION CHARGES "PERSUADED", QUOTE/UNQUOTE, PERSUADED A DEVELOPER

                    TO ENTER INTO AN ARRANGEMENT TO CALL FOR AN ELECTION FOR A HALF A BILLION

                    -- NEARLY HALF A BILLION DOLLAR BOND TO RENOVATE THE NASSAU COLISEUM.  I

                    DOUBT VERY, VERY MUCH THAT THAT DEVELOPER OFFERED TO DO THIS OF HIS OWN

                    FREE WILL.  THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT THE -- THAT COUNTY EXECUTIVE

                    WANTED.

                                         137



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 NOW, THE ARGUMENT HAS BEEN MADE THAT THE INTENT IS

                    GOOD HERE, BUT THE PROCESS WE'RE GOING ABOUT IS WRONG.  WELL, BUYING

                    ELECTIONS IS WRONG AND FORCING PRIVATE DEVELOPERS TO PAY FOR ELECTIONS

                    IS WRONG.  I SPENT YEARS AS COUNSEL TO AN I -- AN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT

                    AGENCY AND A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AGENCY, AND IF ANYONE HAD

                    EVER SUGGESTED THAT I, AS COUNSEL, OFFER A DEAL TO A DEVELOPER, HEY, YOU

                    PAY FOR THE ELECTION AND IF YOU -- IF YOU WIN THE ELECTION, IF YOU GET --

                    GET THE GRANT, IF YOU GET THE BOND, THEN HEH, I'LL PAY FOR THE ELECTION.

                    AND IF YOU LOSE, YOU PAY.  THAT'S CYNICISM.  THAT'S NO WAY TO RUN A

                    GOVERNMENT.  MY VOTE IS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MR. LAVINE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING REPUBLICAN MEMBERS VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE FOR THIS

                    LEGISLATION:  MR. NORRIS, MR. SMULLEN, MR. FITZPATRICK, MR. MILLER -

                    THAT WOULD BE BRIAN MILLER - AND MR. MONTESANO.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  SO NOTED, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S01714, RULES REPORT NO.


                    224, SENATOR BROOKS (ASSEMBLY NO. A03343, RULES REPORT NO. 224,

                    ZEBROWSKI).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                                         138



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    VIOLATIONS OF THE UNIFORM FIRE PREVENTION AND BUILDING CODE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THIS BILL IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

                    IT SAYS WHERE A BUILDING HAS BEEN ALTERED IN VIOLATION OF THE UNIFORM

                    BUILDING CODE OR ANY SIMILAR ORDER IN A WAY THAT BLOCKS ACCESS OR

                    EGRESS FROM THE BUILDING IN THE EVENT OF A FIRE EMERGENCY, THE OWNER OF

                    THE BUILDING WHO HAS KNOWLEDGE OF THAT VIOLATION OR ALTERATION OR

                    SHOULD HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE, IS SUBJECT TO A FINE OF UP TO $7,500.

                                 THE CONCERN THAT HAS BEEN EXPRESSED TO US AND IS A

                    CONCERN FOR MANY OF US IS THAT IT PLACES ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF ANY

                    LIABILITY ON AN OWNER WITHOUT RECOGNIZING THAT THESE ALTERATIONS MAY

                    HAVE BEEN MADE BY A TENANT IN VIOLATION OF A LEASE.  AND THIS LANGUAGE

                    GOES ON TO SAY THAT THE OWNER DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE,

                    IT'S IF THE OWNER "SHOULD" HAVE KNOWLEDGE.  AND SO, WE HAVE A

                    SITUATION WHERE A TENANT MIGHT VIOLATE THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE

                    LEASE, MAKE AN UNAUTHORIZED ALTERATION IN THE BUILDING WHICH RESULTS,

                    UNFORTUNATELY, IN BLOCKING EGRESS, AND THE OWNER WHO HAS NO ACTUAL

                    KNOWLEDGE IS FACING A $7,500 FINE.

                                 THE CONCEPT OF HAVING A SIGNIFICANT FINE IF YOU VIOLATE

                    THE BUILDING AND SAFETY CODES AND CREATE A SERIOUS HEALTH RISK IS A

                    CONCEPT THAT WE ALL SUPPORT, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE STATUTORY

                    LANGUAGE THAT WE VOTE ON PLACES THE LIABILITY ON THE PERSON WHO

                                         139



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    VIOLATES THE LAW AND NOT NECESSARILY ON THE OWNER WHO MAY NOT

                    ACTUALLY HAVE ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE.  FOR THAT REASON, I WILL BE VOTING

                    AGAINST IT AND, CERTAINLY, SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL, AS WELL.  THANK

                    YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 224.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO -- TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY IN OPPOSITION, BUT CERTAINLY ANYONE WHO

                    WOULD LIKE TO VOTE FOR THIS SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE

                    AND ADVISE THEM.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE

                    ON THIS BILL.  WE WOULD ASK COLLEAGUES WHO WOULD CHOOSE NOT TO VOTE

                    WITH US ON IT TO PLEASE CONTACT THE OFFICE AND WE WILL RECORD YOUR VOTE

                    AS REQUESTED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU.

                                         140



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  PLEASE

                    RECORD MR. GARBARINO AS VOTING YES ON THIS BILL.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. CRYSTAL PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE WILL

                    CONTINUE OUR WORK ON OUR DEBATE LIST.  WE ARE GOING TO GO TO RULES

                    REPORT NO. 225 BY MRS. BARRETT; 230, MS. WEINSTEIN; 236, MS.

                    WOERNER; 241, MR. PICHARDO.  AND ON OUR MAIN CALENDAR WE WILL GO TO

                    RULES REPORT NO. 174 BY MS. HYNDMAN.  IN THAT ORDER, MR. SPEAKER.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04077-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 225, BARRETT, ORTIZ, COLTON, L. ROSENTHAL, GOTTFRIED, STECK,

                    OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE REMOVAL OF SPECIES FROM THE ENDANGERED AND

                    THREATENED SPECIES LIST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MRS. BARRETT.

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  EXPLANATION.  THANK YOU, MR.

                                         141



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    SPEAKER.  CURRENTLY, THERE ARE PRIMARILY TWO WAYS THAT A SPECIES GETS

                    ADDED TO THE STATE'S ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST.  ONE OF THOSE IS THAT

                    THEY'RE ADDED AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND AUTOMATICALLY BECOME PART OF THE

                    -- OF THE STATE-LEVEL ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST.  AND TWO, IS THAT THE

                    DEC COMMISSIONER HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DESIGNATE SPECIES.  THIS

                    LEGISLATION WOULD SIMPLY ALLOW THE ENDANGERED SPECIES DESIGNATION BY

                    THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO REMAIN ON THE STATE'S ENDANGERED SPECIES

                    LIST EVEN IF IT'S REMOVED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT UNTIL THE DEC

                    COMMISSIONER HIM OR HERSELF MAKES THAT CALL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. BARRETT, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. BARRETT YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MRS. BARRETT.  THE

                    REASON WE ASKED FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK YOU A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS IS

                    BECAUSE THE LANGUAGE OF THIS BILL PROVIDES THAT ANY ENDANGERED OR

                    THREATENED SPECIES AS SO DESIGNATED BY THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR

                    SHALL BE SUBJECT TO THE STATE'S RESTRICTIONS REGARDLESS OF THE REMOVAL.

                    AND IN YOUR EXPLANATION YOU SEEMED TO INDICATE THAT WHAT YOU MEANT

                    WAS THAT THE REMOVAL ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL WOULD NOT AUTOMATICALLY

                    REMOVE IT FROM THE STATE, EVEN THOUGH THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL SUGGESTS

                    THAT IT SHALL STAY ON.  CAN YOU CLARIFY THAT?

                                         142



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  WELL, THE CURRENT -- UNDER CURRENT

                    LAW IF A SPECIES IS TAKEN OFF THE FEDERAL LIST IT'S AUTOMATICALLY TAKEN OFF

                    THE DEC LIST AS WELL, AND SO THIS LEGISLATION ALLOWS THE DEC

                    COMMISSIONER DISCRETION TO KEEP IT ON.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WOULD THE DEC COMMISSIONER

                    ALSO HAVE THE DISCRETION TO REMOVE IT?

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  YES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO IT IS YOUR INTENT, IF YOU WILL, THAT

                    WHAT HAPPENS ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL IS NOT AUTOMATICALLY FOLLOWED BY THE

                    STATE.  IT COULD BE, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE.  IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  YES, IN TERMS OF THE REMOVAL.  IF --

                    IF IT'S INCLUDED AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL IT AUTOMATICALLY IS INCLUDED AT THE

                    STATE LEVEL.  BUT THE REMOVAL BY THE FEDERAL -- AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL

                    DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE IT REMOVED AT THE STATE LEVEL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW AS YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL

                    GOVERNMENT INCLUDES ON ITS ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST A NUMBER OF

                    SPECIES THAT WOULD NEVER NORMALLY APPEAR IN NEW YORK EVER BECAUSE

                    THEY HAVE A LIMITED RANGE OR A HABITAT OR OTHER GEOGRAPHICAL LIMITATION.

                    IS THERE ANY REASON WHY A SPECIES THAT WOULD NEVER NORMALLY BE IN

                    NEW YORK ANYWAY SHOULDN'T AUTOMATICALLY BE REMOVED IF IT'S REMOVED

                    FROM THE FEDERAL ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST?

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  YES.  IN FACT, THERE IS A GOOD

                    REASON, AND THAT IS BECAUSE THE LAW STATES THE TAKING, IMPORTATION,

                    TRANSPORTATION, POSSESSION OR SALE OF ANY ENDANGERED OR THREATENED

                    SPECIES OF FISH, SHELLFISH, CRUSTACEA, WILDLIFE OR HIDES OR OTHER PARTS

                                         143



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THEREOF, OR THE SALE OR POSSESSION WITH INTENT TO SELL ANY ARTICLE MADE IN

                    WHOLE OR IN PART FROM THE SKIN, HIDE OR OTHER PARTS OF ANY ENDANGERED

                    OR THREATENED SPECIES, ET CETERA, EXCEPT UNDER LICENSE.  SO IT'S NOT JUST A

                    GIRAFFE IN MANHATTAN OR IN CHAUTAUQUA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.  IT'S

                    ABOUT THE PARTS AND IT'S ABOUT THE -- THE MARKETING AND THE PROCESSING

                    OF THESE PARTS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, CERTAINLY IN CHAUTAUQUA

                    COUNTY WE LOVE GIRAFFES.  I -- IT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF MY WIFE'S FAVORITE

                    ANIMALS, AND SO WE HAD A (UNINTELLIGIBLE) COME OUT.

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  I LIKE THEM, TOO.  THEY STICK THEIR

                    NECK OUT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  INDEED.  BUT DON'T WE ALL

                    SOMETIMES.  BUT IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MAKES THE DETERMINATION

                    THAT THAT PARTICULAR SPECIES IS NO LONGER ENDANGERED, CERTAINLY, THEIR

                    EXPERTISE IS FAR GREATER THAN OUR OWN DEC'S EXPERTISE AS IT RELATES TO

                    INTERNATIONAL OR MULTINATIONAL ISSUES.  WOULD YOU AGREE?

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE I THINK I

                    CAN GIVE YOU A VERY SPECIFIC EXAMPLE FROM MY REGION, THE ATLANTIC

                    STURGEON, WHICH HAS MADE THE HUDSON RIVER ITS HOME FOR A VERY LONG

                    TIME.  AND INDUSTRIAL ACTIVITY AND RESOURCE EXTRACTION HAVE MADE IT AN

                    ENDANGERED FISH IN THIS AREA, BUT OTHER VERSIONS OF THE ATLANTIC

                    STURGEON ARE IN THE CHESAPEAKE BAY OR THE GULF OF MEXICO AND

                    ELSEWHERE, AND IT'S POSSIBLE THAT, SAY, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR

                    COULD CONCLUDE THAT THE FISH IS ALREADY PROTECTED AND -- AND -- AND IS

                    SUCCESSFUL AND FLOURISHING ENOUGH, BUT IT STILL NEEDS PROTECTING IN NEW

                                         144



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    YORK STATE.  SO I THINK -- I THINK THERE ARE TIMES WHEN WE NEED THE

                    DISCRETION TO BE ABLE TO MAKE OUR OWN CALL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MRS.

                    BARRETT.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE MY

                    COLLEAGUE'S CLARIFICATION OF THIS LANGUAGE BECAUSE I WAS A LITTLE

                    CONCERNED WHEN I READ IT THAT ONCE ON THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST IN

                    NEW YORK YOU COULD NEVER, EVER TAKE THE SPECIES OFF.  AND MY

                    COLLEAGUE -- MY COLLEAGUE MADE IT QUITE CLEAR, AS PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE

                    RECORD, THAT THE REAL INTENT OF THIS BILL IS THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    CONSERVATION [SIC] WOULD RETAIN INDEPENDENT AUTHORITY TO EVALUATE

                    WHETHER ANY PARTICULAR SPECIES SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE NEW YORK

                    ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST AFTER IT WAS REMOVED FROM THE FEDERAL

                    ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST.

                                 AND WITH THAT CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ARE REALLY

                    JUST SIMPLY DELEGATING MORE AUTHORITY TO OUR DEC COMMISSIONER AND

                    MAKE THAT INDEPENDENT EVALUATION, I WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS LEGISLATION.

                    AND AGAIN, I THANK MY COLLEAGUE FOR THOSE CLARIFICATIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 225.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                                         145



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MR.

                    BRABENEC AS VOTING NO ON THIS LEGISLATION.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, SIR.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S04408, RULES REPORT NO.

                    230, SENATOR GOUNARDES (A05627, WEINSTEIN, MOSLEY, JAFFEE, ABBATE,

                    COLTON, CYMBROWITZ, GALEF, ZEBROWSKI, JOYNER, ORTIZ, GLICK,

                    DINOWITZ, CARROLL, D'URSO, STECK, HYNDMAN, VANEL, RICHARDSON,

                    AUBRY, WEPRIN, SEAWRIGHT, ABINANTI, WALLACE, CAHILL, BURKE, TAYLOR).

                    AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE REGULATION

                    OF DEFAULT AND FORECLOSURE OF REVERSE MORTGAGES ISSUED UNDER THE

                    FEDERAL HOME EQUITY CONVERSION MORTGAGE FOR SENIORS PROGRAM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THIS BILL PROVIDES VARIOUS STATUTORY

                                         146



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    RESTRICTIONS AND REQUIREMENTS THAT APPLY TO REVERSE MORTGAGES.  AND FOR

                    THOSE WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH A REVERSE MORTGAGE, BASICALLY WHAT

                    HAPPENS IS THE LENDER ON THE REVERSE MORTGAGE GIVES MONTHLY PAYMENTS

                    TO THE HOMEOWNERS, UP TO A CERTAIN DESIGNATED VALUE OF THE PROPERTY.

                    THERE'S NO OBLIGATION FOR THE HOMEOWNER TO REPAY THAT ADVANCE, IF YOU

                    WILL.  BUT UPON THE PASSING, THE DEATH OF THE HOMEOWNER, THE PROPERTY

                    THEN IS OWNED BY THE LENDER.  AND THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED A REVERSE

                    MORTGAGE.  THEY'RE ADVANCING THE PAYMENTS ALMOST IN THE REVERSE

                    ORDER THAT YOU WOULD NORMALLY MAKE PAYMENTS.  AND IT'S A PRODUCT,

                    FINANCIAL PRODUCT, THAT SOMETIMES SENIOR CITIZENS WHO HAVE A LOT OF

                    PROPERTY BUT NOT A LOT OF CASH CAN APPRECIATE BECAUSE THEY'RE UNDER NO

                    OBLIGATION TO REPAY THE ADVANCES AS LONG AS THEY'RE ALIVE.  AND THEN

                    TYPICALLY, THE LENDER WILL BACK THE POLICIES WITH A LIFE INSURANCE POLICY

                    OR SOME OTHER SECURITY.  BUT A TYPICAL REVERSE MORTGAGE REQUIRES THE

                    HOMEOWNER WHO IS RESIDING IN THE HOUSE TO KEEP THE HOUSE INSURED SO

                    IF -- IF THERE'S A FIRE OR OTHER CASUALTY THERE'S INSURANCE COVERAGE, AND TO

                    PAY THE PROPERTY TAXES SO THAT THE HOUSE DOESN'T GO INTO FORECLOSURE

                    DURING THAT TIME PERIOD.  AND A CONCERN HAS BEEN RAISED THAT

                    SOMETIMES A REVERSE MORTGAGE LENDER, THE CONCERN IS THAT THEY MIGHT

                    MAKE THOSE PAYMENTS FOR PROPERTY TAXES OR INSURANCE IN ADVANCE,

                    BEFORE THEY'RE PAST DUE, AND THEN USE THAT ADVANCE AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR

                    A DEFAULT.  THE CONCERN THAT I HAVE ON THIS LEGISLATION IS THIS LEGISLATION,

                    BY STATUTE, STATES THAT NO AUTHORIZED LENDER SHALL MAKE AN ADVANCE

                    PAYMENT AND SPECIFICALLY SHALL NOT MAKE AN ADVANCE PAYMENT FOR

                    MORTGAGE INSURANCE PREMIUM, HOMEOWNER'S INSURANCE PREMIUM OR REAL

                                         147



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    PROPERTY TAXES RELATED TO THE PROPERTY, AND CAN ONLY PAY THOSE

                    PREMIUMS OR TAXES WHICH ARE IN ARREARS.  SO THIS BILL WOULD SAY THAT THE

                    ONLY TIME THE LENDER CAN PAY THE HOMEOWNER'S INSURANCE OR THE TAXES

                    WOULD BE IN THOSE SITUATIONS WHEN THOSE PAYMENTS ARE IN ARREARS.  AND

                    THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT IF YOUR HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE GOES INTO

                    ARREARS, YOU RUN THE RISK THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANY WILL CANCEL

                    COVERAGE.  AND SO IF WE, BY LAW, MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR THE LENDER TO MAKE

                    SURE THAT THE INSURANCE PREMIUM IS CURRENT, WE PLACE BOTH THE LENDER

                    AND THE HOMEOWNER AT GREAT RISK IF THE HOMEOWNER FOR SOME REASON IS

                    FACING CASH FLOW ISSUES AND DOESN'T MAKE THAT PAYMENT.  AND ALL OF US

                    WHO PAY PROPERTY TAXES KNOW HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO PAY THEM ON TIME.

                    THERE'S A 1 PERCENT PER MONTH INTEREST CHARGE ON YOUR PROPERTY TAXES,

                    AND IF THEY GO INTO ARREARS THERE'S A HUGE PENALTY.  AND SO IF WE, BY

                    STATUTE, SAY THAT THE REVERSE MORTGAGE LENDER CAN ONLY PAY THE PROPERTY

                    TAXES AFTER THEY GO INTO ARREARS, WE ARE GUARANTEEING HIGH PENALTIES ON

                    THOSE TAXES.  NOW, I APPRECIATE VERY MUCH MY COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE TO

                    PROTECT HOMEOWNERS FROM REVERSE MORTGAGE LENDERS WHO ARE USING THIS

                    ADVANCE PAYMENT AS AN EXCUSE.  BUT RATHER THAN PROHIBIT THE PAYMENT

                    OF PROPERTY INSURANCE OR TAXES BEFORE THEY'RE IN ARREARS, A BETTER

                    APPROACH FOR BOTH THE HOMEOWNER AND FOR THE REVERSE MORTGAGE LENDER

                    WOULD BE TO ALLOW THOSE PREMIUMS AND TAXES TO BE PAID ON TIME, BUT

                    GUARANTEE THAT THE HOMEOWNER HAS A GRACE PERIOD TO REPAY THOSE.

                                 AND SO THIS LANGUAGE I WILL RECOMMEND THAT WE VOTE

                    AGAINST, BUT I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE SPONSOR TO CONSIDER A DIFFERENT

                    APPROACH THAT ADDRESSES THE SAME ISSUE AND ENABLES THE HOMEOWNER TO

                                         148



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    HAVE A GRACE PERIOD TO REPAY THE REVERSE MORTGAGE LENDER WHILE STILL

                    ALLOWING THE REVERSE MORTGAGE LENDER TO MAKE SURE THE PROPERTY

                    INSURANCE NEVER LAPSED, AND THAT THE HOMEOWNER DOESN'T FACE LARGE TAX

                    PENALTIES.  SO I APPRECIATE THE DESIRE, BUT I THINK THERE'S A BETTER

                    APPROACH THAT WOULD BE BETTER FOR BOTH PARTIES.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 230.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY VOTING NO, BUT I ENCOURAGE ANY MEMBER

                    THAT WOULD LIKE TO VOTE YES TO CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  THIS IS A MAJORITY VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO VOTE NO SHOULD CONTACT THE

                                         149



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AT THE DESIGNATED PHONE NUMBER.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    HYNDMAN.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S05421-A, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 236, SENATOR RAMOS (A07498-A, WOERNER, DICKENS, MCDONALD,

                    D'URSO, BRABENEC, DESTEFANO, GOTTFRIED, BARRON, LUPARDO, JONES).  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION TO INCLUDING

                    COVERAGE OF TREATMENT RENDERED BY A MASSAGE THERAPIST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO THIS BILL WOULD AMEND THE WORKERS'

                    COMPENSATION LAW TO ALLOW FOR A FEE SCHEDULE TO BE ESTABLISHED FOR

                    PAYMENT FROM FOR MASSAGE THERAPY SERVICES RENDERED TO AN INJURED

                    EMPLOYEE.  AND THIS IS A BILL THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT FOR A COUPLE OF

                    YEARS AND VOTED ON.  SO I THINK IF I HAD TO SUMMARIZE WHAT THE PRIMARY

                    CONCERN IS THAT'S BEEN EXPRESSED REGARDING THE BILL, IT IS COST.  WE ALL

                    KNOW THAT -- I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT OUR WORKERS' COMPENSATION

                    SYSTEM IN NEW YORK STATE IS ONE OF THE COSTLIEST IN THE ENTIRE NATION.  I

                                         150



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THINK IT'S IN THE -- IN THE TOP FIVE MOST COSTLIEST.  AND SO AT A TIME,

                    PARTICULARLY NOW, WHEN WE NEED TO BE WORKING EXTRA HARD TO TRY AND

                    FIND EFFICIENCIES, AND AT A TIME WHEN WE KNOW THAT OUR BUSINESS

                    CLIMATE IS VERY DIFFICULT, IT'S VERY HARD TO BE A BUSINESS IN NEW YORK

                    STATE AND WE DON'T WANT TO IMPOSE ADDITIONAL COSTS ON THOSE EMPLOYEES

                    -- THOSE EMPLOYERS.  FOR THOSE REASONS, WE'VE HAD SOME OPPOSITION IN

                    THE PAST TO THE BILL FROM PLACES LIKE THE BUSINESS COUNCIL, AFL-CIO,

                    NFIB AND OTHERS.  AND -- AND THAT'S BEEN THE PRIMARY KIND OF SUMMARY

                    OF WHAT THE OPPOSITION HAS BEEN.  SO THIS WOULD -- JUST SO MY

                    COLLEAGUES KNOW, THIS WOULD ONLY ALLOW A LICENSED MASSAGE THERAPIST

                    TO DO IT.  AND WE DO ALREADY UNDER THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW

                    ALLOW THINGS LIKE ACUPUNCTURE, OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY, PHYSICAL THERAPY.

                    AND THOSE PHYSICAL THERAPISTS OR OCCUPATIONAL THERAPISTS MAY UTILIZE

                    MASSAGE AS PART OF THEIR TECHNIQUE IN WORKING WITH THE PATIENT.  BUT

                    THE -- UNDER OUR CURRENT LAW WE DON'T HAVE AN ABILITY FOR A LICENSED

                    MASSAGE THERAPIST TO PROVIDE THOSE SAME SERVICES.

                                 SO WITH ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, I WILL SAY THAT I HAVE

                    SUPPORTED THIS BILL IN THE PAST AND I WILL BE SUPPORTING IT AGAIN.  AND

                    THE REASON IS THAT I REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT WHEN SOMEBODY IS IN

                    INTRACTABLE PAIN, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT ALTERNATIVE THERAPIES LIKE MASSAGE.

                    THEY COULD BE REALLY HELPFUL IN CONTROLLING PAIN, REDUCING ANXIETY.

                    AND IT COULD POTENTIALLY SAVE MONEY, IRONICALLY, BECAUSE IF YOU -- IF

                    YOU'RE PAYING FOR MASSAGE THERAPY SERVICES, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO DELAY

                    OR EVEN ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR SURGERY FOR SOME PATIENTS.

                                 SO FOR THOSE REASONS, I THINK THAT ALTHOUGH IT MAY --

                                         151



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    WE DON'T REALLY KNOW - AND THAT'S THE HARD THING ABOUT THIS BILL - WE

                    DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW MUCH OR TO WHAT EXTENT IT'S GOING TO INCREASE

                    COSTS ON EMPLOYERS, BUT I THINK THAT -- I THINK IT'S A REASONABLE ADDITION

                    AND ALTERNATIVE THAT WE SHOULD APPROVE UNDER THE WORKERS'

                    COMPENSATION LAW, AND FOR THAT REASON I'LL BE SPONSORING THIS BILL, BUT

                    SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES MAY NOT FOR THE REASONS STATED.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE -- ON

                    THE 30TH DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 236.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. WOERNER TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  MY

                    COLLEAGUE DID A WONDERFUL JOB EXPLAINING WHAT THE BILL DID, AND I

                    WOULD JUST ADD TO THIS THAT MASSAGE THERAPISTS ARE SMALL BUSINESSES.

                    AND FOR MANY YEARS THE WORKERS' COMP SYSTEM HAS RECOGNIZED THE

                    VALUE OF -- OF MASSAGE THERAPY AS A THERAPEUTIC MODALITY AND THERE HAS

                    BEEN A CODE FOR MASSAGE THERAPY PROVIDED IN A DOCTOR'S OFFICE.  AND

                    WHEN THIS FIRST STARTED THAT WAS APPROPRIATE.  BUT NOW MASSAGE

                    THERAPISTS, GENERALLY SPEAKING, PRACTICE IN THEIR OWN OFFICES AND HAVE

                                         152



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    SET UP THEIR OWN BUSINESSES AND ARE EMPLOYERS IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

                    AND THIS JUST GIVES THEM THE ABILITY TO PRACTICE THEIR PROFESSION, TO

                    PROVIDE RELIEF TO INJURED WORKERS IN -- IN THEIR OWN OFFICES.

                                 SO I -- I HOPE ALL OF YOU WILL JOIN ME IN SUPPORTING

                    THIS GREAT BILL.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WOERNER IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  PLEASE

                    REPORT THE FOLLOWING REPUBLICAN MEMBERS IN THE NEGATIVE:  MR. TAGUE,

                    MR. BLANKENBUSH, MR. FRIEND, MR. NORRIS, MR. MANKTELOW AND MR.

                    FITZPATRICK.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  SO NOTED,

                    SIR.  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ALL I CAN SAY IS, OH, MY

                    ACHING BACK.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08147-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 241, PICHARDO, ORTIZ, DICKENS, DE LA ROSA, SIMON,

                    ARROYO, REYES, DESTEFANO, D'URSO, GLICK, GOTTFRIED, BARRON, NIOU,

                    JACOBSON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN

                                         153



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    RELATION TO DISCRIMINATION AND RETALIATION AGAINST EMPLOYEES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  THIS ACT

                    WOULD REQUIRE INDIVIDUALS THAT WORK FOR AIRLINES EITHER DIRECTLY OR AS

                    SUBCONTRACTORS TO BE PAID STATE-DETERMINED PREVAILING -- THIS BILL HAS

                    NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT --

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 -- WHICH WILL BE THE NEXT BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SOUNDED GOOD, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO, BACK TO THIS BILL.  THIS BILL

                    WOULD ONLY APPLY TO AIRLINE EMPLOYEES THAT MIGHT BE WORKING AS AN

                    UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT AS WELL AS ALL OTHER UNDOCUMENTED

                    IMMIGRANTS.  IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YOU ARE ASKING MR.

                    PICHARDO?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NO, I DIDN'T MEAN FOR HIM TO

                    ANSWER IT, I'M JUST TRYING TO PROVIDE A GRACEFUL TRANSITION TO THIS BILL.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PICHARDO, WHY

                    DON'T YOU EXPLAIN YOUR BILL?

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  I'D BE VERY HAPPY TO DO SO, MR.

                    GOODELL AND MR. SPEAKER.  SO, IT'S -- IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD WHAT

                                         154



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THIS BILL DOES.  IT RELATES TO DISCRIMINATION AND RETALIATION AGAINST

                    EMPLOYEES WHO CLAIM WORKERS' COMPENSATION BENEFITS SPECIFICALLY IN

                    THE CONTEXT OF STRENGTHENING THE RULES FOR THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION

                    BOARD DEALING WITH INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYERS WHO TEND TO OR WHO WOULD

                    DISCRIMINATE AGAINST AN EMPLOYEE, AND -- AND ACCORDING TO THEIR -- THEIR

                    DOCUMENTATION OR THEIR LEGAL STATUS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    PICHARDO.  THANK YOU FOR GETTING ME ON THE RIGHT BILL WITH THE RIGHT

                    ISSUES.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  SURE.  NOT A PROBLEM.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO UNDER CURRENT LAW, WE ARE REALLY

                    CLEAR THAT IF YOU -- IF AN EMPLOYER DISCRIMINATES AGAINST AN EMPLOYEE

                    BECAUSE THAT EMPLOYEE FILES FOR WORKERS' COMP, IT'S A VIOLATION OF THE

                    LABOR LAW SUBJECT TO A SIGNIFICANT PENALTY.  AND THAT'S THE WAY IT

                    SHOULD BE.  NO WORKER SHOULD BE FIRED BECAUSE THEY'VE TAKEN

                    ADVANTAGE OF THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW THAT PROVIDES COVERAGE

                    FOR A WORK-RELATED INJURY.  THIS BILL ADDS ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE THAT SAID

                    DISCRIMINATION OR RETALIATION INCLUDES CONTACTING THE UNITED STATES

                    IMMIGRATION AUTHORITIES OR OTHERWISE REPORTING OR THREATENING TO REPORT

                    AN EMPLOYEE'S SUSPECTED CITIZENSHIP OR IMMIGRATION STATUS.  THIS

                    CREATES SOME VERY INTERESTING DYNAMICS BECAUSE UNDER FEDERAL LAW IT IS

                    ILLEGAL FOR AN EMPLOYER TO HIRE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT.  NOW, AN

                    IMMIGRANT CAN BE HIRED WHO'S NOT A CITIZEN IF THEY HAVE A WORKING VISA,

                    LIKE AN H-1 OR A TEMPORARY WORK VISA OR EVEN A GREEN CARD, A

                    PERMANENT WORK VISA.  BUT IF THEY'RE NOT AUTHORIZED AND THEY DON'T

                                         155



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    HAVE A PROPER VISA OR OTHER WORK AUTHORIZATION, IT'S ILLEGAL FOR AN

                    EMPLOYER ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES, INCLUDING NEW YORK, TO HIRE

                    A PERSON WHO IS HERE WITHOUT PROPER DOCUMENTATION.  SO THIS BILL SAYS

                    THAT IF AN EMPLOYER DISCOVERS THAT AN EMPLOYEE WHO MAY ALSO HAVE

                    BEEN INJURED ON THE JOB WAS WORKING FOR THE EMPLOYER ILLEGALLY AND

                    REPORTS THAT ILLEGAL ACTIVITY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE EMPLOYER

                    WOULD BE FACING A $2,500 FINE WHICH CREATES A UNIQUE SITUATION IN NEW

                    YORK WHERE IT'S ALMOST LIKE A REVERSE WHISTLEBLOWER.  IF YOU REPORT

                    ILLEGAL ACTIVITY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT YOU WILL BE FINED $2,500 IF

                    THE EMPLOYEE BELIEVES THAT THAT REPORT IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THEIR

                    DESIRE TO COLLECT WORKERS' COMPENSATION.  THE CURRENT LAW IS VERY

                    CLEAR.  YOU CANNOT DISCRIMINATE AGAINST A PERSON BY FIRING THEM IF THEY

                    APPLY FOR WORKERS' COMP.  CURRENT LAW IS ALSO CLEAR, YOU CANNOT

                    BLACKMAIL OR EXTORT A PERSON.  AND THAT'S VERY CLEAR AND THAT'S WHAT IT

                    SHOULD BE.  BUT WE SHOULD NOT BE IN A SITUATION IN NEW YORK STATE

                    WHERE WE SUBJECT SOMEONE FOR REPORTING ILLEGAL CONDUCT TO A $2,500

                    FINE.

                                 FOR THAT REASON, I AND SEVERAL OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL

                    BE OPPOSING IT.  AND, AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE FOR DIRECTING

                    ME TO THE PROPER BILL THAT'S UP FOR DEBATE AT THIS TIME.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PICHARDO.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ON THE

                    BILL.  SO, JUST VERY QUICKLY, I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY AND MAKE SURE THAT

                    CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING.  PARTICULARLY ON MAKING SURE THAT WE ENFORCE THE

                    LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY, BUT ALSO THAT PEOPLE ARE TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND

                                         156



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    FAIRNESS THAT THEY DESERVE.  IN CIRCUMSTANCES AND IN TIMES THAT I'VE

                    INTERACTED WITH AND DEALT WITH INDIVIDUALS EITHER THROUGH MIXED-STATUS

                    HOUSEHOLDS AND -- AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, PARTICULARLY AROUND THE

                    ISSUE OF HOUSING, PEOPLE ARE VERY RETICENT TO APPLY FOR ANY TYPE OF

                    BENEFIT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE ENTITLED TO.  SO WHAT THIS BILL IS DOING,

                    IT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY SIMPLE.  IT BASICALLY SAYS IF YOU ARE USING A PERSON'S

                    DOCUMENTED STATUS OR UNDOCUMENTED STATUS AGAINST THEM IN ORDER TO

                    DISSUADE THEM, PARTICULARLY IN THE CONTEXT OF WORKERS' COMPENSATION

                    BOARD, WORKERS' COMP AND OTHER BENEFITS THAT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE

                    ENTITLED TO, THAT -- THAT IN THAT CONTEXT CAN BE SEEN AS A FORMED PRACTICE

                    OF DISCRIMINATION.  SO AGAIN, EVERYTHING THAT WE DO -- AND YOU HAVE TO

                    CONSIDER THE CONTEXT, PARTICULARLY THE CONTEXT OF THE DAY WHERE WE

                    HAVE POTENTIALLY -- YOU KNOW, AND IT'S NOT PARTISAN, IT'S ACTUAL FACT THAT

                    WE DO HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT IS FAIRLY HOSTILE TO IMMIGRANTS

                    REGARDLESS OF THEIR DOCUMENTATION STATUS AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE

                    THAT HERE IN NEW YORK WE MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYBODY, EMPLOYERS AND

                    EMPLOYEES ALIKE, FAMILIES, NEW YORKERS ACROSS THE STATE, THAT

                    DISCRIMINATION IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IS NOT GOING TO BE TOLERATED.

                    BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU USE THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE ABOUT LEGALITY AND

                    DOCUMENTATION STATUS AND CREATING THIS IDEA THAT A PERSON MAY OR MAY

                    NOT BE DOCUMENTED, THEN IT IS CREATING A HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT FOR ALL

                    NEW YORKERS TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE AND ACCESS BENEFITS THAT THEY

                    MAY BE ENTITLED TO.

                                 SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU FOR

                    THIS OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN THIS, AND I HOPE THAT ONCE THE OPPORTUNITY

                                         157



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    COMES BY THAT MY COLLEAGUES WOULD SUPPORT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                    THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE -- WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 241.  THIS IS A PARTY

                    VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE

                    CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY

                    LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  ON THIS PARTICULAR

                    BILL THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY IN THE NEGATIVE.

                    HOWEVER, IF ANY MEMBER OF THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WOULD LIKE TO

                    VOTE FOR THIS BILL, THEY SHOULD PROMPTLY CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S

                    OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  SO NOTED.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  THIS IS A MAJORITY VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING TO VOTE NEGATIVE WILL PLEASE CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AT THE DESIGNATED PHONE NUMBER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU SO MUCH,

                    MS. HYNDMAN.

                                         158



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MR.

                    DESTEFANO AS VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  SO

                    NOTED.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  MR. SPEAKER, PLEASE LET -- PLEASE

                    REFLECT THAT ASSEMBLYMEMBER SANTABARBARA IS A NEGATIVE ON THIS VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU, MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08142-E, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 174, HYNDMAN, CARROLL, TAYLOR, REYES, GRIFFIN, GOTTFRIED,

                    PAULIN, DINOWITZ, NIOU, BLAKE, WEPRIN, DE LA ROSA, SIMON, SIMOTAS,

                    D. ROSENTHAL, AUBRY, PERRY, BARNWELL, MOSLEY, ORTIZ, SEAWRIGHT,

                    JEAN-PIERRE, WALKER, QUART, DENDEKKER, RYAN, NOLAN, BENEDETTO,

                    SOLAGES, BRAUNSTEIN, ABBATE, KIM, JACOBSON, HEVESI, FERNANDEZ,

                    COLTON, ARROYO, FRONTUS, L. ROSENTHAL, WILLIAMS, EPSTEIN, BUCHWALD,

                    JOYNER, O'DONNELL, PHEFFER AMATO, M.G. MILLER, WRIGHT, RIVERA,

                    PICHARDO, SAYEGH, CRUZ, RAMOS, DICKENS, D'URSO, BICHOTTE, ROZIC,

                    RODRIGUEZ, DILAN, THIELE, ABINANTI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW,

                                         159



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE "HEALTHY TERMINALS ACT."

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    HYNDMAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED BY MR. GOODELL.  THIS

                    TIME, THE RIGHT BILL.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  OKAY.  THIS BILL WOULD AMEND

                    ARTICLE 9 OF THE LABOR LAW TO REQUIRE WORKERS EMPLOYED AT AIRPORTS

                    OPERATED BY THE PORT AUTHORITY OF NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY TO BE

                    PAID PREVAILING WAGES AND SUPPLEMENTS.  THIS WOULD INCLUDE JOHN F.

                    KENNEDY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, LAGUARDIA INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AND

                    NEW -- AND NEW YORK STEWART INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT.  THIS WOULD

                    REQUIRE THE FISCAL OFFICE OF THE DESIGNATED (UNINTELLIGIBLE) PUBLISH THE

                    WAGE AND SUPPLEMENTAL BENEFITS -- BENEFIT RATES BY CLASSIFICATION AND

                    REGION ON OR BEFORE SEPTEMBER 1, 2020.  AND -- AND COVERED AIRPORT

                    WORKERS MEANS THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT WORK UNDER THE COVER OF THE

                    -- OF THESE THREE AIRPORTS AT LEAST HALF THEIR TIME.  AND THAT IS THE

                    EXPLANATION OF THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. HYNDMAN, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  GLADLY.

                                         160



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. HYNDMAN YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO, IT IS ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO

                    DISCUSS WITH MY COLLEAGUES THE BILL THAT'S UP FOR A VOTE AS OPPOSED TO

                    SOME OTHER BILL.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 AND THE REASON I STARTED OFF THE PREVIOUS DEBATE

                    TALKING ABOUT THIS BILL IS BECAUSE I HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE OF STANDING

                    RIGHT NEXT TO THE SPONSOR OF THIS PARTICULAR BILL, AND WE WERE DISCUSSING

                    IT.  AND SO I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING MORE INFORMATION.  SO IF

                    THE SPONSOR DOESN'T MIND, THIS BILL WOULD COVER PRIVATE-SECTOR

                    EMPLOYEES THAT WORK FOR AIRLINES AS WELL AS THE AIRLINE EMPLOYEES THAT

                    ARE WORKING IN THOSE THREE AIRPORTS.  IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY WOULD

                    COVER PRIVATE CONTRACT EMPLOYEES THAT MIGHT BE HIRED UNDER A

                    SUBCONTRACTOR TO CLEAN THE AIRPLANES, AS AN EXAMPLE.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  SO, MOST OF THE STAFF THAT WORKS

                    FOR OR CLEANS AIRPLANES, THEY ARE UNDER THE -- THE AIRLINE.  THE

                    SUBCONTRACTED INDIVIDUALS ARE USUALLY THOSE WHO ARE MAKING THE MEALS

                    FOR THE INTERNATIONAL FLIGHTS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  AND THEY -- THEY MIGHT BE

                    WORKING OFF SITE AND THE MEALS MIGHT THEN BE DELIVERED TO THE PLANE?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  RIGHT.  OFF SITE, BUT IN VERY CLOSE

                    PROXIMITY TO THE AIRPORT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  CERTAINLY IN THE SAME COUNTRY.

                                         161



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  YES, ABSOLUTELY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  ALL RIGHT.  AND THE AIRLINE

                    EMPLOYEES THEMSELVES, WOULD THEY BE COVERED BY THIS?

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  NO.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY, SO YOU'RE LOOKING REALLY AT

                    THE SUBCONTRACTORS.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  YES.  WELL, THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT

                    GET YOUR BAGS -- YOUR BAGS TO THE -- TO THE BELTS ON TIME.  THE

                    INDIVIDUALS THAT CLEAN THE RESTROOMS IN AIRPORTS.  THE INDIVIDUALS THAT

                    WILL MOVE THE PASSENGERS BY WHEELCHAIR FROM THE GATE TO THE BAGGAGE

                    CLAIM AREAS, AND THOSE INDIVIDUALS, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, WHO ARE MAKING

                    THE MEALS FOR THE AIRLINES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

                    EXPLAINING THIS BILL.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  CERTAINLY, I

                    APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S DESIRE TO PROVIDE -- ENSURE A HIGHER WAGE FOR

                    ALL THESE EMPLOYEES.  AND WE HAVE REQUIRED, HISTORICALLY, THAT ON

                    PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS WHERE THE STATE ITSELF OR A LOCAL SUBDIVISION IS

                    THE EMPLOYER OR IS THE CONTRACTOR, WE REQUIRE IT ON STATE- OR

                    MUNICIPALLY- FUNDED PROJECTS THAT WORKERS BE PAID A PREVAILING WAGE.

                    IN MANY SITUATIONS THAT PREVAILING WAGE IS SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN THE

                    TYPICAL WAGE IN THAT PARTICULAR OCCUPATION AND IN THAT PARTICULAR

                                         162



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    LOCATION.  RARELY -- NOT NEVER, BUT RARELY HAS THE STATE TAKEN THE

                    POSITION THAT THE STATE SHOULD REQUIRE PRIVATE EMPLOYERS TO PAY HIGHER

                    MANDATED WAGES TO THEIR EMPLOYEES WHEN THERE'S NO STATE FUNDING OR

                    GOVERNMENTAL FUNDING TO PAY.  AND FROM THE DESCRIPTION FROM THE

                    SPONSOR IT APPEARS THAT THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE CERTAIN PRIVATELY-OWNED

                    AND OPERATED COMPANIES TO PAY THEIR PRIVATELY-CONTRACTED EMPLOYEES A

                    HIGHER WAGE.  TYPICALLY, GOVERNMENT DOES NOT SET INDIVIDUAL WAGE --

                    WAGE RATES IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.  THIS BILL WOULD BE DIFFERENT.  THIS BILL

                    WOULD TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH.  WE'VE ALL SEEN THE DEVASTATING

                    IMPACT OF COVID-19 ON THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY.  I, MYSELF, WITNESSED IT

                    FIRSTHAND WHEN A FLIGHT THAT I AND MY WIFE HAD BOOKED A MONTH OR TWO

                    IN ADVANCE WAS CANCELED.  IN FACT, THERE WERE SO MANY FLIGHTS CANCELED

                    FOR A WHILE, YOU COULDN'T FLY ALMOST ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

                    THE AIRLINES FOR AMERICA, WHICH IS A TRADE ASSOCIATION, INDICATES THAT

                    GIVEN THE DATA FROM PAST CRISES, THE TRAJECTORY OF THE VIRUS, THE

                    WIDESPREAD DEPLOYMENT OF A VACCINE AND GLOBAL ECONOMIC OUTLOOK,

                    THEY ANTICIPATE THAT AIR TRAFFIC RECOVERY IS EXPECTED TO TAKE AT LEAST

                    THREE YEARS.  AND ONCE DEMAND HAS RECOVERED, IT WILL TAKE YEARS FOR THE

                    AIRLINES TO RETIRE THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF DEBT AND ADDRESS THE SIZEABLE

                    ASSOCIATED INTEREST EXPENSE THAT THEY'VE BEEN ACCRUING IN THE MEANTIME

                    FOR ALL THE AIRLINES' AIRPLANES THAT THEY PURCHASED WITH THE EXPECTATION

                    OF A MUCH HIGHER TRAFFIC VOLUME.  BECAUSE THE AIRLINES ARE GOING

                    THROUGH SUCH HORRIFIC FINANCIAL STRESS, AND INDEED, SOME ARE FACING

                    ACTUAL BANKRUPTCY, THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE BEST TIME FOR GOVERNMENT TO

                    REQUIRE THESE PRIVATELY-CONTRACTED EMPLOYEES TO BE PAID SIGNIFICANTLY

                                         163



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    HIGHER RATES.  AND SO IF THIS AIRLINE -- IF THE AIRLINES WERE FLUSH, IF

                    BUSINESS WAS GREAT, IF THERE WAS TREMENDOUS DEMAND, THE ECONOMIC

                    OUTLOOK WOULD BE VERY DIFFERENT.  BUT AS A GENERAL PRINCIPLE,

                    GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE VERY HESITANT ABOUT SETTING WAGE RATES FOR

                    SPECIFIC OCCUPATIONS AND SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS WORKING WITHIN THOSE

                    OCCUPATIONS WHERE THOSE OCCUPATIONS ARE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND NOT

                    BEING PAID BY A GOVERNMENT FUND.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT

                    THAT WHEN IT CAME TO THIS LEGISLATION THAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THE

                    AIRPORT WORKERS WHO -- AND THE AIRPORTS THAT ARE OWNED AND OPERATED BY

                    PUBLIC ENTITIES.  IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THESE AIRLINES HAVE

                    RECEIVED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN BAILOUT MONEY FROM ECONOMIC STIMULUS

                    PACKAGES.  THEY -- THEY HAVE NOT PASSED THIS ON TO THEIR WORKERS.

                    WHEN TIMES WERE GREAT WHEN WE ASKED FOR THIS LEGISLATION, THERE WAS

                    NO ROOM FOR IT TO HAPPEN.  AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE ALSO HAVE TO

                    REMEMBER IS THAT THE INDIVIDUALS THAT GET YOUR BAGS, CLEAN THE

                    BATHROOMS, CLEAN THE PLANES AND TRANSPORT PASSENGERS TO DIFFERENT

                    TERMINALS WERE AT THE FRONT LINES WHEN IT CAME TO COVID-19.  THEY

                    SHOWED UP FOR WORK.  AND UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OF THESE WORKERS HAVE

                    PASSED.  PARTICULARLY, MR. LELAND JORDAN, WHO WAS VERY ACTIVE IN

                    GETTING THIS LEGISLATION.  I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ALSO POINT OUT THAT

                    LEGISLATION -- THIS LEGISLATION HAS PASSED IN TRANSPARENCY, IN

                                         164



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    PENNSYLVANIA AND IN CALIFORNIA FOR AIRPORT WORKERS.  WE'RE TALKING

                    ABOUT INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE PAID SO LOW THAT THEY HAD TO CHOOSE

                    BETWEEN PAYING FOR HEALTH INSURANCE AND PUTTING FOOD ON THE TABLE.  SO

                    WHAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THOSE WORKERS WHO MAKE THE AIRPORTS

                    RUN WHETHER THE AIRLINES ARE DOING WELL OR NOT, ARE STILL SHOWING UP FOR

                    WORK EVERY DAY.  AND WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE -- WE DON'T WANT THESE

                    WORKERS TO FEEL THAT THEIR WORK IS INSIGNIFICANT BECAUSE WITHOUT THEM

                    THE AIRPORTS DO NOT RUN.  WITHOUT THEM, JFK WOULD NOT RUN, LAGUARDIA

                    AIRPORT WOULD NOT RUN, AND STEWART -- STEWART AIRPORT WOULD NOT BE

                    OPERATIONAL.  SO THIS BILL, WHILE IT IS, PEOPLE WILL SAY, AT A BAD TIME, IT'S

                    ALWAYS THE RIGHT TIME TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY WORKERS IN THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL SPEAKS TO.  AIRPORT WORKERS NEED

                    AFFORDABLE, QUALITY HEALTHCARE TO KEEP OUR AIRPORTS SAFE AND READY.  AND

                    THIS BILL IS NOT ENACTED UNTIL SEPTEMBER 2021.  SO WHEN YOU BOOK A

                    TICKET, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR HAND LUGGAGE, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR A

                    CHECKED BAG, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR HEADPHONES, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR

                    BLANKETS, ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT USED TO BE GIVEN TO AIRLINE PASSENGERS

                    NOW HAVE TO BE PAID FOR.  AIRLINES HAVE NOT REFUNDED MONEY TO

                    INDIVIDUALS.  IF YOU BOOKED A TICKET ON THE AIRLINE IN THE LAST THREE

                    MONTHS OR PREVIOUSLY, THEY DEFERRED IT TO A LATER DATE.  SO THEY'RE NOT

                    EXACTLY GIVING MONEY BACK TO CONSUMERS.  SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE

                    THAT IN NEW YORK STATE WE'RE TAKING CARE OF EMPLOYEES ALSO, BECAUSE

                    THESE WORKERS WERE FIRST LINE WHEN IT CAME TO COVID, AND MANY OF THE

                    WORKERS UNFORTUNATELY DID CONTRACT COVID-19, AND SOME OF THEM ARE

                    NO LONGER HERE, LIKE LELAND JORDAN, TO SPEAK UP FOR THEMSELVES.  SO IT'S

                                         165



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    LEFT TO HIS DAUGHTER, DAZILIA, TO MAKE SURE THAT SHE ADVOCATES FOR THE

                    FATHER THAT'S NO LONGER THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT OTHER WORKERS WHO ARE --

                    WHO MAY BE INFECTED HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE,

                    SOMETHING SO BASIC.  AS WE KNOW, THIS COUNTRY'S HEALTHCARE SHOULD BE A

                    RIGHT AND NOT A PRIVILEGE FOR THOSE.

                                 SO I WANT TO SAY TO ALL MY COLLEAGUES, I HOPE YOU VOTE

                    IN FAVOR OF THIS LEGISLATION.  I THANK THE SPEAKER'S OFFICE, PROGRAM AND

                    COUNSEL FOR THEIR -- THEIR HELP IN MAKING SURE THAT THIS BILL CAME TO THE

                    FLOOR THIS EVENING.  I THANK MY COLLEAGUE ON THE OTHER SIDE FOR HIS

                    BRILLIANT QUESTIONS, AS ALWAYS.  AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, I WANT TO THANK

                    ALL THE WORKERS IN THOSE THREE AIRPORTS -- ONE IN PARTICULAR WHERE THE

                    PLANES FLY OVER OUR -- OUR HEADS EVERY NIGHT IN THE 29TH ASSEMBLY

                    DISTRICT -- TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS HOUSE, THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, STANDS UP

                    FOR THE RIGHTS OF WORKERS, STANDS UP FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T FIGHT

                    THEMSELVES, TO MAKE SURE THAT HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT AND NOT A PRIVILEGE

                    IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    HYNDMAN.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1,

                    2021.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 174.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                                         166



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    WISHING TO RECORD IT AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PARTICULAR

                    LEGISLATION.  BUT ANY MEMBER WHO WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE

                    SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SIR, SO NOTED.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  ALL OF THOSE MEMBERS WISHING TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE WILL

                    PLEASE CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AT THE DESIGNATED PHONE

                    NUMBER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    HYNDMAN.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. BICHOTTE TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. BICHOTTE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WANT TO FIRST COMMEND THE SPONSOR

                    FOR INTRODUCING THE HEALTHY TERMINALS ACT REQUIRING THE PAYMENT OF

                    PREVAILING WAGES TO THESE ESSENTIAL WORKERS TO ENSURE THEY HAVE ACCESS

                    TO BETTER WAGES AND BENEFITS INCLUDING HEALTHCARE.  TRAINED AND

                    EXPERIENCED AIRPORT WORKERS ARE NEEDED TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF EVERY

                                         167



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    PASSENGER.  ON THE OTHER HAND, EMPLOYMENT SECURITY IS PARAMOUNT FOR

                    EVERY WORKER.  WITH THE COVID CRISIS IMPACTING THE HEALTH AND

                    WELL-BEING OF EVERYONE, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR COVERED AIRPORT WORKERS TO

                    KNOW THAT WE, THE LEGISLATORS, STAND BY THEM.  WE HAVE TO SUPPORT OUR

                    COVERED AIRPORT WORKERS BY PROVIDING PREVAILING WAGES AND BENEFITS.  I

                    WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE (UNINTELLIGIBLE) SEIU, UNITED CARE 100

                    AND RWDSU FOR ALL THE WORK THEY CONTINUE TO DO TO PROTECT THESE

                    WORKERS.  HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, WITH THAT I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. BICHOTTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. WALKER TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. WALKER:  HI.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ONE

                    OF THE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO NOTE IS I'M GOING TO TAKE THIS VOTE IN

                    HONOR OF MY MOM.  WHEN I DECIDED THAT I WANTED TO TAKE THE BAR -- GO

                    TO LAW SCHOOL, TAKE THE BAR, MY MOM WENT TO WORK AT THE AIRPORT IN

                    ORDER TO HELP ME HAVE ALL OF THE NECESSITIES THAT I NEEDED IN ORDER TO BE

                    SUCCESSFUL ON THE BAR EXAM.  AND I REMEMBER THE TOIL THAT SHE WENT

                    THROUGH, HER AND COLLEAGUES, AND I REMEMBER HEARING ALL THE STORIES OF

                    THE SACRIFICES THAT THEY'VE MADE EACH AND EVERY DAY TO ENSURE THAT THE

                    THINGS THAT WE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF; A CLEAN SEAT, A CLEAN PLANE.  BUT IT

                    WAS -- IT WAS WHAT THEY DID IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT THEIR FAMILIES ARE

                    FED AND THE NECESSITIES ARE MET.  AND SO I THINK THAT WE OWE IT TO ALL OF

                    THOSE WORKERS TO LET THEM KNOW THAT WE CARE ABOUT THEM, WE

                                         168



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ACKNOWLEDGE THE SERVICE THAT THEY DO TO ALL OF THE CONSUMERS OF ALL

                    AIRLINE INDUSTRIES, AND THAT WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR HEALTHCARE AND

                    THE HEALTHCARE OF YOUR FAMILY.

                                 SO I PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALKER IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. PICHARDO.

                                 MR. PICHARDO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK AND

                    CONGRATULATE THE SPONSOR OF THIS VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                    AND WHAT THIS BILL IS BASICALLY GOING TO DO IS IT -- WE, AS THE STATE, ARE

                    RECOGNIZING THE DIGNITY OF THESE WORKERS WHO DO SO MUCH NOT ONLY FOR

                    OUR STATE BUT FOR THE NATIONAL ECONOMY AS A WHOLE.  AND THE FACT THAT

                    WE, AS A -- AS A COUNTRY, WERE SO QUICK TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MAINTAIN

                    AND SUSTAIN THESE LARGE CORPORATIONS AND THEY WERE ABLE TO RECEIVE

                    BAILOUTS NOT ONLY IN THIS INSTANCE BUT OTHER INSTANCES IN THE LAST FEW

                    DECADES, BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE BALANCE

                    THIS EQUATION, THAT WE SUPPORT THE WORKERS WHO ARE MAKING SURE THAT

                    THESE INDUSTRIES ARE CONTINUING TO FUNCTION EVEN UNDER VERY DANGEROUS

                    AND DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES.

                                 SO I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND I VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PICHARDO IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN.

                                         169



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I -- I JUST

                    WANT TO RISE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I, AGAIN, THANK THE SPONSOR.  THIS IS A

                    CRITICAL PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  OUR TERMINALS ARE PLACES THAT SO MANY

                    PEOPLE USE EVERY DAY, AND THE RIGHTS OF THE WORKERS WHO ARE THERE IS OF

                    CRITICAL IMPORTANCE TO THE FUTURE OF A HIGH AND WELL-FUNCTIONING STATE.

                    THE HEALTHY TERMINALS ACT GOES A LONG WAY IN DOING THAT.  THE

                    ORGANIZATIONS AND UNIONS THAT ARE BEHIND IT REALLY MADE A DIFFERENCE TO

                    TALK ABOUT THOSE STRUGGLES OF INDIVIDUAL WORKERS WHO ARE WORKING IN

                    THESE TERMINALS.  I'M PROUD TO BE A COSPONSOR, AND I ENCOURAGE MY

                    CLIENTS -- MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT.

                                 I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. BARRON.

                                 MR. BARRON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  THIS IS A VICTORY FOR THE WORKERS.  ONE FOR THE WORKERS.  IT'S

                    NOT TOO OFTEN THAT YOU GET VICTORIES UNDER THIS RACIST, PARASITIC CAPITALIST

                    SYSTEM WHERE THE PROFITS ARE AT THE TOP AND THE DEVELOPERS AND THE RICH

                    GET RICHER AND THE POOR WORKING-CLASS GETS POORER.  SO THIS IS ONE FOR

                    THE WORKERS, AND I WANT TO ENCOURAGE WORKERS TO UNITE IN ALL UNIONS

                    AND ALL LABOR.  WE NEED TO UNITE AND BRING SOME RADICAL CHANGES TO THIS

                    SYSTEM, NOT JUST YOUR JOBS, NOT JUST TERMINAL JOBS, BUT ACROSS THIS STATE.

                    IT'S TIME FOR WORKERS TO RISE UP AND UNITE AND SAY THAT THE WORKERS MUST

                    GET LIVING WAGES, PREVAILING WAGES, NOT JUST MINIMUM WAGES, FOR THE

                    WORK THAT'S BEING DONE.  SO CONGRATULATIONS TO THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL.

                                         170



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB WITH IT.  AND CONGRATULATIONS TO THE WORKERS.

                    THIS IS ONE FOR THE WORKERS, A VICTORY FOR THE WORKERS.  LET'S KEEP IT

                    ROLLING AND GET SOME MORE.

                                 I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BARRON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. SAYEGH.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. SAYEGH.

                                 WE'LL COME BACK TO HIM.

                                 MS. DE LA ROSA.

                                 MS. DE LA ROSA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I SIMPLY WANT TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO THANK MY

                    COLLEAGUE WHO HAS CHAMPIONED THIS LEGISLATION, BUT ALSO TO SEND MY --

                    EXTEND MY SINCERE CONDOLENCES TO ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE WORKERS WHO

                    HAVE LOST THEIR LOVED ONES.  DURING THE STRUGGLE TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS

                    LEGISLATION WAS PASSED, WE LEARNED OF THE STORIES OF THE MEN AND

                    WOMEN, GRANDPARENTS, WHO LOST THEIR LIVES DUE TO COVID BECAUSE THEY

                    WERE EXPOSED, UNFORTUNATELY, TO CONDITIONS THAT WERE NOT SAFE.  AND

                    THAT IS THE PLIGHT OF WORKERS EVERY SINGLE DAY, PRE-COVID AND NOW

                    THAT WE ARE LIVING IN THIS CRISIS.  AND SO LIKE MR. BARRON SAID, THIS IS FOR

                    THE WORKERS.  I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUE AND ORGANIZED LABOR FOR

                    COMING BEHIND THIS.  IN A TIME OF HEALTH CRISES AND PANDEMICS WE MUST

                    MAKE SURE THAT WORKERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE THE BENEFIT THEY NEED IN

                    ORDER TO STAY ALIVE.

                                         171



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. DE LA ROSA IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. SAYEGH.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MS. SIMON.

                                 MS. SIMON:  YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I SIMPLY WANT TO SAY THAT THIS HAS BEEN A LONG TIME

                    COMING.  IT'S A BILL THAT IS A VICTORY FOR THE WORKERS, AND IT'S A BILL THAT I

                    HAVE BEEN PROUD TO COSPONSOR.  AND I JUST WANT TO COMMEND THE

                    SPONSOR FOR ALL OF HER HARD WORK ON THIS, PULLING THIS -- THIS BILL

                    TOGETHER AND DEVELOPING SUPPORT FOR IT.  IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT, AND I

                    CAN'T IMAGINE A REASON NOT TO SUPPORT THIS BILL.

                                 SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SIMON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. SAYEGH.

                                 MR. SAYEGH:  HELLO.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I --

                    I'D LIKE TO ALSO RISE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I'D LIKE TO COMMEND THE

                    SPONSOR AND TO REALLY RESTATE THE IMPORTANCE OF A HEALTHY WORKFORCE

                    AND TERMINAL WORKERS DURING THE PANDEMIC WHERE THEY'RE WORKING.  SO

                    WHEN WE LOOK AT ALL THE WORKERS THAT SERVED US IN MANY DIFFERENT

                    CAPACITIES, WE RECOGNIZED THEM AS HEROES.  AND THESE WORKERS DESERVE

                    THE HEALTHCARE BENEFITS.  AND I, FOR ONE, TRULY RESPECT THE FACT THAT WE,

                    AS A LEGISLATIVE BODY, AND HERE IN NEW YORK, HAVE MOVED IN THE

                                         172



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    DIRECTION OF PROTECTING LABOR AND PROTECTING WORKERS AND MAKING SURE

                    THAT THE WORKFORCE HAS STABILITY WHEN THEY HAVE WAGE -- WAGE BENEFITS

                    AND THEY HAVE HEALTHCARE SERVICES AND BENEFITS.  AND THIS IS WHAT WE

                    NEED TO STABILIZE OUR WORKFORCE IN THE ENTIRE STATE.

                                 SO I WILL VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AND I AGAIN

                    COMMEND THE SPONSOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. SAYEGH IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. CRUZ.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY

                    VOTE.  I PROUDLY WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  A FEW YEARS AGO

                    WHEN I WAS THE DIRECTOR OF THE EXPLOITED WORKERS TASK FORCE, I HAD

                    THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET AND ACTUALLY BECOME FRIENDS WITH SO MANY OF

                    THESE WORKERS.  AND IT IS INCREDIBLE THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO PASS

                    LEGISLATION TO REQUIRE AN EMPLOYER TO DO WHAT SHOULD BE THE BARE

                    MINIMUM.  THESE FOLKS ARE KEEPING THIS INDUSTRY ALIVE WHILE THEIR

                    EMPLOYERS GET RICHER.  THEY SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING AS BASIC AS

                    HEALTHCARE.  FOR ME IT IS AN HONOR TO GET TO VOTE YES BECAUSE IT IS WHAT

                    WE, AS LEGISLATORS, GET TO DO TO THANK THESE WORKERS FOR THEIR SACRIFICE,

                    FOR THEIR WORK, FOR THEIR COMMITMENT, AND FOR, FRANKLY, HELPING US GET

                    HERE TODAY.  IT WAS THEM COMING TO ALBANY, IT WAS THEM RALLYING, IT

                    WAS THEM PROTESTING.  SO I WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT-OUT AND, FRANKLY, THANK

                    THE WORKERS FROM THIS INDUSTRY WHO NEVER LET US FORGET THAT THIS WAS

                    ABOUT THEM.

                                 AND SO IN HONOR OF THOSE WORKERS WHO WERE

                                         173



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    UNFORTUNATELY LOST AND IN HONOR OF THE WORKERS WHO WILL GET TO BENEFIT

                    FROM THIS, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MRS. GUNTHER.

                                 MRS. GUNTHER:  I'D LIKE TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

                    THIS BILL.  I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO PROTECT ALL HEALTHCARE WORKERS AT THE

                    AIRPORT.  AND I WILL ALSO SAY THAT IT'S ALSO TIME TO PROTECT OUR HEALTHCARE

                    WORKERS AND PASS SAFE STAFFING.

                                 SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I APPRECIATE THIS BILL.  IT'S

                    THE RIGHT THING TO DO, AND LET'S CONTINUE DOING THE RIGHT THING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. GUNTHER IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. KIM.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MS. REYES.

                                 MS. REYES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I JUST WOULD

                    LIKE TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL FOR HER DEDICATION, AND I

                    WOULD LIKE TO DEDICATE MY VOTE, AGAIN, TO ALL THE WORKERS AND THE

                    ORGANIZERS THAT HAVE REALLY MADE SURE THAT THIS COMES TO FRUITION.

                    THERE SHOULD BE NO CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE SOMEBODY WORKS FULL-TIME

                    AND HAS NO ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE.  AND UNTIL WE CAN GUARANTEE

                    HEALTHCARE TO EVERY PERSON AND EVERY WORKER, NOT JUST IN OUR STATE BUT

                    IN OUR COUNTRY, I'M HAPPY TO BE DOING THE RIGHT THING BY THESE WORKERS

                                         174



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO ACCESS AND AFFORD HEALTHCARE,

                    PARTICULARLY IN A TIME LIKE -- THE TIMES THAT WE'RE LIVING RIGHT NOW.

                                 SO THANK YOU, AND I'M HAPPY TO VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. REYES IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. KIM.

                                 MR. KIM:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I, TOO, WANT TO

                    JUST TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HER LEADERSHIP ON THIS VERY

                    CRITICAL BILL THAT WE'RE PASSING TODAY.  AND I DO ALSO WANT TO REMIND

                    EVERYONE THAT OVERALL, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE A WIN TODAY,

                    (UNINTELLIGIBLE) STAGNANT IN THIS STATE AND THIS COUNTRY FOR ALMOST 40

                    YEARS.  SO DON'T THINK OF THIS AS CHARITY OR COMPASSION.  THIS IS REAL

                    ECONOMIC GROWTH FOR ALL OF US.  WHEN WORKERS HAVE BENEFITS AND

                    WAGES, WE ALL PROSPER.  AND THAT'S A MODEL THAT EVERY ECONOMIST IN THIS

                    WORLD UNDERSTANDS.  BUT THE TRUTH IS, WE HAVE NORMALIZED A SOCIETY

                    WHERE THE RICH ARE GETTING RICHER WHILE THE POOR ARE GETTING KILLED

                    DURING THIS PANDEMIC.  AND ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, AND TODAY IS A WIN AND

                    WE MUST CONTINUE TO PROTECT WORKERS MOVING FORWARD.

                                 THANK YOU.  I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. KIM IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. NIOU.

                                 MS. NIOU:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING

                    ME TO JUST SAY A FEW WORDS.  I JUST WANTED TO SAY HOW IMPORTANT THIS

                                         175



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    BILL WAS AND ALSO TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL FOR WORKING SO

                    HARD ON GETTING IT PASSED.  THIS IS A VERY CRITICAL BILL IN THIS CRITICAL

                    MOMENT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, LIKE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID, WE SHOULD

                    NEVER ALLOW FOR FOLKS WHO ARE ON THE FRONTLINES TO BE WITHOUT

                    HEALTHCARE.  RIGHT NOW, MORE THAN EVER, OUR -- OUR WORLD IS

                    INTERCONNECTED AND WE ARE SEEING THAT.  AND OUR HEALTHCARE IS

                    INTERCONNECTED.  WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AND WHAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN IS VERY

                    -- IT'S VERY AMPLIFIED AND EVEN MORE OBVIOUS THAN EVER IS THAT WHEN MY

                    HEALTHCARE DEPENDS ON YOUR HEALTHCARE AND YOUR HEALTHCARE DEPENDS ON

                    MY HEALTHCARE, IT'S -- IT'S MORE APPARENT THAN EVER THAT WE NEED TO TAKE

                    CARE OF EACH OTHER, AND THIS IS A WAY FOR US TO TAKE CARE OF OUR WORKERS

                    AND THE FOLKS WHO ARE TAKING CARE OF US.  AND I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT,

                    YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS TAUGHT TO ME VERY EARLY ON BY A

                    MENTOR OF MINE, HECTOR (UNINTELLIGIBLE), WHO -- WHO PASSED AWAY BUT

                    HAS ALWAYS BEEN SOMEBODY WHO HAS WORKED TO FIGHT FOR THE RIGHTS OF

                    WORKERS AND LED 32BJ TO BE ABLE TO HELP OUR WORKERS TO BE ABLE TO GET

                    THESE RIGHTS.  AND SO THIS IS WHY THIS BILL IS SO IMPORTANT.  IT IS SO

                    IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT HOW WE ARE CONNECTED EVERY SINGLE DAY HAS

                    BEEN AMPLIFIED, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TAKING CARE OF

                    ONE ANOTHER IN THIS TIME IN ORDER TO TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER SOME MORE.

                                 SO THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. SPEAKER, AND I WANTED TO

                    THANK ALL OF THE FOLKS, ESPECIALLY THE ADVOCATES, WHO WORKED ON THIS

                    BILL.  THANK YOU.  AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. NIOU IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                         176



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MS. SEAWRIGHT.

                                 MS. SEAWRIGHT:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  THIS IS A HUGE WIN AND VICTORY FOR

                    THE WORKERS.  I COMMEND THE BILL SPONSOR AND I PROUDLY CAST MY VOTE

                    TODAY.  WE STAND TOGETHER, WE STAND UNITED.  AND TODAY IS A VICTORY

                    THAT WE COME TOGETHER IN THIS NATIONAL TIME OF CRISIS TO DO SOMETHING

                    THAT IS RIGHT.  AND TO ECHO THE WORDS OF MY COLLEAGUE CHARLES BARRON

                    WHO SAID THE TIME IS RIGHT TO RISE AND UNITE TOGETHER.

                                 SO AGAIN, I COMMEND THE BILL SPONSOR AND ALL THE

                    ACTIVISTS AND 32BJ AS WE VOTE TO PASS THIS LEGISLATION.  I CAST MY VOTE

                    PROUDLY IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SEAWRIGHT IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE ARE

                    GOING TO CONTINUE ON OUR DEBATE LIST.  WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH RULES

                    REPORT NO. 248.  THAT ONE IS SPONSORED BY MR. BUCHWALD.  FOLLOWING

                    THAT WE'LL DO RULES REPORT NO. 253 BY MR. WEPRIN.  NO, I'M SORRY, 253

                    BY MR. WEPRIN AND 265 BY MR. WEPRIN AS WELL.  AND CALENDAR NO.

                    469 BY MR. PERRY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09525, RULES REPORT

                                         177



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    NO. 248, BUCHWALD, ZEBROWSKI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO PROVIDING THAT, IN HOUSING CASES ONLY, AFTER A DISMISSAL

                    FOR LACK OF PROBABLE CAUSE OR LACK OF JURISDICTION, A COMPLAINANT WOULD

                    HAVE THE OPTION TO APPEAL THE FINAL ORDER, OR BRING A DE NOVO ACTION IN

                    COURT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    BUCHWALD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THIS BILL RELATES TO HOW WE ADDRESS

                    INDIVIDUALS WHO FILE A COMPLAINT ALLEGING HOUSING DISCRIMINATION AND

                    THEY FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS.  SO IF AN

                    INDIVIDUAL THINKS THEY'RE A VICTIM OF HOUSING DISCRIMINATION UNDER

                    CURRENT LAW, THEY HAVE AN OPTION.  THEY HAVE AN ELECTION.  THEY CAN

                    FILE THE COMPLAINT WITH THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS OR THEY CAN GO

                    DIRECTLY TO COURT.  IF THEY FILE THE COMPLAINT WITH THE DIVISION OF

                    HUMAN RIGHTS, THEN THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS, USING GOVERNMENT

                    EMPLOYEES, PRESUMABLY INVESTIGATES THE COMPLAINT, AND IF THEY RULE IN

                    FAVOR OF THE TENANT THEN THE TENANT WINS.  IF THEY RULE AGAINST THE PERSON

                    WHO BROUGHT THE COMPLAINT, THEN THE PERSON CAN APPEAL THAT DECISION

                    AND HAVE IT REVIEWED BY A COURT.  SO THERE'S DUE PROCESS UNDER EITHER

                    APPROACH.  SO YOU CAN EITHER GO WITH THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS

                                         178



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE DECISION YOU CAN APPEAL IT, OR YOU CAN GO

                    DIRECTLY TO COURT IN THE FIRST INSTANCE.  WELL, THERE'S ONE CAVEAT UNDER

                    CURRENT LAW THAT THIS BILL ADDRESSED, AND THAT IS IF YOU GO TO THE

                    DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND THEY DETERMINE THAT THE COMPLAINT HAS

                    NO PROBABLE CAUSE, THIS BILL WOULD ALLOW YOU TO CHANGE YOUR OPTION, IF

                    YOU WILL, INSTEAD OF APPEALING IT AND INSTEAD GO DIRECTLY TO COURT WITH

                    WHAT'S KNOWN AS A DE NOVO CASE, A BRAND-NEW CASE.  UNFORTUNATELY,

                    WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT SOMEONE WHO IS EXONERATED IN FRONT OF THE

                    DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS OR THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS FOUND THAT

                    THERE WAS NO PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY DISCRIMINATION

                    CAN FACE THE PROSPECT OF HAVING TO DEFEND THE CASE ALL OVER AGAIN IN

                    COURT, WHICH IS VERY, VERY UNUSUAL.  NORMALLY, IF YOU HAVE AN

                    ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING AND THERE'S NO PROBABLE CAUSE, THAT'S THE END OF

                    IT.  AND IT'S THE END OF THE CASE BECAUSE NO PROBABLE CAUSE IS A VERY,

                    VERY LOW STANDARD.  NOW, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING IN THE LEGAL FIELD YOU

                    HAVE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF PROOF.  I MEAN, YOU HAVE BEYOND A REASONABLE

                    DOUBT.  THAT'S A VERY HIGH STANDARD.  YOU HAVE A PREPONDERANCE OF

                    EVIDENCE.  THAT'S MORE THAN 50 PERCENT.  YOU HAVE CLEAR AND

                    CONVINCING.  THAT'S SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.  AND THEN THE LOWEST

                    STANDARD IS PROBABLE CAUSE.  PROBABLE CAUSE JUST MEANS THERE'S SOME

                    GROUND TO BELIEVE YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT.  SOME GROUND.  AND SO WHEN THE

                    DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS DETERMINES THAT THERE'S NO PROBABLE CAUSE TO

                    BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY DISCRIMINATION, THAT'S A VERY STRONG STATEMENT BY

                    A GOVERNMENT AGENCY WHOSE MISSION IS TO PREVENT DISCRIMINATION.

                                 THERE'S ONE OTHER QUIRKY THING ABOUT THIS, IF YOU WILL.

                                         179



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    NEW YORK RECOGNIZES THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE ABUSE THE LEGAL PROCESS.

                    AND SO WE HAVE TWO CAUSES OF ACTION THAT CAN BE BROUGHT BY THE

                    INNOCENT VICTIM OF A MALICIOUS OR UNFOUNDED LAWSUIT.  AND THAT'S ABUSE

                    OF PROCESS OR MALICIOUS PROSECUTION.  AND SO IF WE ADOPT THIS LAW AND

                    SOMEONE WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE THE VICTIM OF DISCRIMINATION GOES TO

                    THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION AND THEY DETERMINE THERE WASN'T EVEN

                    PROBABLE CAUSE FOR DISCRIMINATION AND THEN THAT SAME PERSON TURNS

                    AROUND AND BRINGS A LAWSUIT, IF A COURT AGREES THERE'S NO PROBABLE

                    CAUSE, THAT PERSON WHO FILED THE COMPLAINT COULD BE THE NEXT DEFENDANT

                    IN COURT ON A COUNTERCLAIM FOR ABUSE OF PROCESS.  THE CURRENT SYSTEM

                    HAS CHECKS AND BALANCES.  IT'S THE PERSON WHO IS FILING THE COMPLAINT,

                    NOT THE OTHER SIDE.  IT'S THE PERSON WHO IS FILING THE COMPLAINT THAT

                    DECIDES WHETHER THEY WANT TO GO TO THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION OR

                    GO TO COURT.  THAT'S THEIR OPTION.  THEIR CHOICE.  AND IF THEY CHOOSE TO

                    GO WITH THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION AND LOSE, THEY HAVE A -- THEY

                    CAN TAKE IT UP ON APPEAL.  BUT THIS BILL SAYS THAT EVEN IF YOU NOT ONLY

                    LOSE, BUT THERE'S NO PROBABLE CAUSE, YOU CAN FILE A NEW ACTION IN COURT

                    ANYWAY.  THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE.  IT IS ALMOST THE DEFINITION OF ABUSE OF

                    PROCESS, AND WE SHOULD NOT, BY STATUTE, AUTHORIZE A PROCESS THAT'S UNFAIR

                    TO THE RESPONDENT WHEN THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS DETERMINES

                    THERE'S NO PROBABLE CAUSE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. BUCHWALD.

                                 MR. BUCHWALD:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS

                                         180



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    BILL STANDS FOR THE BASIC PRINCIPLE THAT NEW YORK STANDS AGAINST,

                    HOUSING DISCRIMINATION, HOPEFULLY SOMETHING A PRINCIPLE THAT WE ALL

                    SHARE.  I'VE HEARD THE HONORABLE GENTLEMAN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE

                    AISLE, WE'VE ACTUALLY DEBATED THIS BILL I THINK THIS IS NOW OUR FOURTH

                    TIME IN THIS HOUSE.  AND WHEN LISTENING TO HIM, I THINK THAT THE VIEW

                    ON THE OTHER SIDE IS THAT THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS IS THIS FANTASTIC

                    ORGANIZATION, WE SHOULD ALWAYS ABIDE BY THEIR VIEWS.  IN THIS CASE ON

                    THIS BILL, I AGREE BECAUSE I BRING THIS BILL ON BEHALF OF THE DIVISION OF

                    HUMAN RIGHTS.  I WAS ASKED FOR THIS BILL TO BE ENACTED INTO LAW FOR THE

                    VERY SIMPLE REASON THAT ENACTING THIS BILL INTO LAW BRINGS NEW YORK

                    STATE INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE FEDERAL FAIR HOUSING ACT.  NEW

                    YORKERS DESERVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR HOUSING DISCRIMINATION CLAIMS

                    ARE HEARD.  AND AS ANOTHER MEMBER OF THE BODY SAID IN THE PRIOR YEAR,

                    IT IS NOT INEVITABLY THE CASE, THAT WHEN AN ADMINISTRATIVE AGENCY FINDS

                    THAT THERE IS NO PROBABLE CAUSE, THAT THEY'VE ACTUALLY DONE A THOROUGH

                    INVESTIGATION.  THEY'VE EVEN INTERVIEWED THE COMPLAINANT.  BUT

                    FUNDAMENTALLY HERE, WE ARE UPHOLDING THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS'

                    ABILITY TO PROPERLY ENFORCE HOUSING DISCRIMINATION LAWS IN OUR COUNTRY

                    UNDER THE FAIR HOUSING ACT, SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE A

                    WHILE AGO.

                                 AS I SAID, THIS WILL NOW BE ACTUALLY THE FIFTH TIME THAT

                    THIS BODY HAS ENACTED -- HAS PASSED THIS BILL.  BUT TODAY IS THE FIRST

                    TIME THE OTHER BODY IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS ENACTED THE BILL.  SO,

                    AND I'M VERY PLEASED TO BE BRINGING THIS BILL TO THIS HOUSE FOR I BELIEVE

                    ITS FINAL TIME, AND I HOPE THAT EVERY MEMBER OF THE HOUSE CAN AFFIRM

                                         181



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THE PRINCIPLE THAT HOUSING DISCRIMINATION HAS NO PLACE IN OUR STATE.

                                 AND LET ME JUST SAY, MR. SPEAKER, THAT I OWE A DEBT OF

                    GRATITUDE TO THE CURRENT MAJORITY LEADER, THE THEN-CHAIR OF THE

                    GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS COMMITTEE WHO PROVIDED THIS OPPORTUNITY

                    FOR ME TO CARRY THIS BILL WHEN I WAS A FRESHMAN ASSEMBLYMEMBER, TO

                    THE CURRENT CHAIR OF THE GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS COMMITTEE, WHO IS

                    A COSPONSOR OF THE BILL, THE STAFF OF THE GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS

                    COMMITTEE WHO HAS BEEN SUPPORTIVE THROUGHOUT.  I'M JUST PLEASED THAT

                    THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I GET TO BE HERE IN ALBANY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE

                    ARE STANDING UP FOR THE BASIC RIGHTS OF ALL NEW YORKERS.  THANK YOU

                    VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 248.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION.

                    THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                         182



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SO NOTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. -- MR. SPEAKER, THIS

                    IS A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THOSE CHOOSING TO NOT VOTE WITH THE

                    PARTY CAN CERTAINLY FEEL FREE TO CONTACT OUR OFFICES AND WE'LL BE HAPPY

                    TO RECORD YOU AS SUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BYRNE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M NOT IN

                    ALBANY TODAY, I'M VOTING REMOTELY FROM HOME IN PUTNAM COUNTY, BUT I

                    -- I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK BRIEFLY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I DO APOLOGIZE TO

                    THE SPONSOR, HE'S NOT GOING TO GET MY VOTE ON THIS PARTICULAR BILL, BUT I

                    DO WANT TO SAY I SUPPORT HIM AS A -- AS A COLLEAGUE AND A MEMBER.

                    AND THIS MAY, HOPEFULLY NOT, BE HIS LAST BILL BEFORE OUR SESSION

                    CONCLUDES.  I REPRESENT THE -- THE DISTRICT THAT'S IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT

                    AND NORTH TO THE 93RD ASSEMBLY DISTRICT THAT THE SPONSOR REPRESENTS.

                    WE'VE WORKED VERY WELL TOGETHER SERVING THE PEOPLE OF WESTCHESTER

                    COUNTY.  IT'S BEEN AN HONOR TO WORK WITH HIM.  I KNOW HE'S EXTREMELY

                    PASSIONATE AND CARING ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT HE SERVES AND, DAVID, IT'S

                    JUST BEEN AN HONOR AND I WANT TO THANK YOU AND WISH YOU WELL.  I AM

                    SURE THAT WE'LL STILL BE WORKING TOGETHER IN SOME CAPACITY IN

                    WESTCHESTER IN THE -- IN THE FUTURE YEARS.  THANKS AGAIN AND, SORRY, BUT

                    I DO VOTE NEGATIVE.

                                         183



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BYRNE IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I

                    WILL BE VOTING NO, BUT I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT WHILE I MAY DISAGREE

                    WITH THIS LEGISLATION, I HAVE THE GREATEST RESPECT FOR THE SPONSOR.  I

                    THINK MR. BUCHWALD HAS DONE A GREAT JOB AS A MEMBER OF THIS

                    ASSEMBLY.  I ECHO THE COMMENTS OF MY COLLEAGUE, MR. BYRNE.  I HAD

                    THE PLEASURE OF SERVING WITH HIM ON SOME OF OUR COMMITTEES AND

                    EVERY TIME HE SPOKE, WE LISTENED BECAUSE HE WAS ALWAYS

                    KNOWLEDGEABLE, THOUGHTFUL, DELIBERATE AND CERTAINLY A GREAT ASSET FOR US

                    HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY.  SO, AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.  THAT

                    DOESN'T MEAN, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE THE GREATEST RESPECT, I ALWAYS AGREE,

                    BUT, NEVERTHELESS, HE REALLY WAS A GREAT ASSET TO OUR -- TO OUR CHAMBER.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09702, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 253, WEPRIN, CRUZ, EICHENSTEIN, AUBRY, EPSTEIN, L. ROSENTHAL,

                    MOSLEY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PROHIBITING THE COMMISSIONER OF CORRECTIONS AND COMMUNITY

                    SUPERVISION FROM PROMULGATING POLICY TO REQUIRE INMATES TO WAIVE

                                         184



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    RELIGIOUS RIGHTS IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN INMATE PROGRAMS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. WEPRIN.

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL

                    WOULD ADD A NEW SUBDIVISION 5 TO SECTION 112 OF THE CORRECTION LAW

                    THAT WOULD PROHIBIT THE COMMISSIONER OF THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    CORRECTION FROM PROMULGATING ANY POLICY REQUIRING AN INCARCERATED

                    INDIVIDUAL TO WAIVE ANY RELIGIOUS RIGHT AS A CONDITION FOR PARTICIPATING

                    IN ANY INMATE PROGRAM.  THE BILL WOULD ALSO GRANT INCARCERATED

                    INDIVIDUALS EXEMPTIONS FOR ACTIVITIES THAT COINCIDE WITH RELIGIOUS

                    HOLIDAYS IN -- IN VIOLATION OF THEIR RELIGIOUS RIGHTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD FOR JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. WEPRIN, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  I'D BE HAPPY TO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. WEPRIN YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. WEPRIN.  SO, AS I WAS

                    READING THROUGH THIS BILL AND THE BILL MEMO, IT -- IT SOUNDED AS THOUGH

                    THE -- WHAT PROMPTED THIS BILL WAS THE IDEA THAT INMATES WERE BEING

                    ASKED TO SIGN WRITTEN WAIVERS SAYING THAT THEY WOULD NOT EXERCISE THEIR

                    RELIGION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN DIFFERENT PROGRAMS; DO I HAVE THAT

                    RIGHT?

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                         185



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MS. WALSH:  DID -- DID YOU SEE ANY OF THESE

                    WAIVERS?  IS THIS -- IS THIS -- IS THIS AN ISSUE THAT WE'RE SEEING ACROSS THE

                    STATE?  THIS JUST SEEMS REALLY KIND OF SHOCKING TO ME.

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  WELL, THAT'S WHY I INTRODUCED THE BILL.

                    IT WAS SHOCKING TO ME, AS WELL, AND I ACTUALLY HAD BEEN CONTACTED BY A

                    NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WERE INCARCERATED WHO WOULD LIKE TO

                    PARTICIPATE, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE SHOCK INCARCERATION PROGRAM, THEY'RE

                    ELIGIBLE BECAUSE THEY MEET ALL THE CRITERIA EXCEPT THEY REFUSE TO WAIVE

                    THEIR RELIGIOUS RIGHTS, YOU KNOW, IN VIOLATION -- IN MY OPINION, YOU

                    KNOW, OF THEIR FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED

                    STATES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND I WOULD ABSOLUTELY TEND TO AGREE

                    WITH YOU ABOUT THAT.  THE -- THE QUESTION I GUESS I'VE GOT IS ONE OF, FOR

                    LACK OF A BETTER TERM, LIKE "LOGISTICS."  SO, YOU'VE GOT A SHOCK PROGRAM

                    WHICH, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IS A VERY INTENSIVE EXPERIENCE --

                    PROGRAM SIMILAR TO LIKE A MILITARY BOOT CAMP.  AND COULD IT BE POSSIBLE

                    THAT -- THAT THESE INMATES WHO DO HAVE RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCE NEEDS

                    COULD NOT BE -- IT COULD NOT BE PROGRAMMED AROUND THESE INDIVIDUALS?

                    I MEAN, I'M JUST -- I'M STRUGGLING TO UNDERSTAND WHY A WAIVER WOULD BE

                    SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE EVEN ASKED FOR OF THESE INMATES.

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  WELL, I AGREE.  I DON'T SEE WHY THEY

                    CAN'T HAVE RELIGIOUS ACCOMMODATIONS JUST LIKE THEY DO FOR ANY OTHER

                    PERSON, YOU KNOW, IN ANY, YOU KNOW, CAPACITY OF ANY STATE PROGRAM,

                    BUT INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS SHOULD NOT BE DEPRIVED OF THEIR ABILITY TO

                    EXERCISE THEIR FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND IF THEY OTHERWISE WOULD BE

                                         186



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ELIGIBLE FOR THIS PROGRAM, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT SHOULD NOT BE A

                    HINDRANCE TO -- TO THEM BEING ELIGIBLE AND PARTICIPATING IN THE PROGRAM,

                    WHICH COULD RESULT IN A REDUCTION OF THEIR SENTENCE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. WEPRIN.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEAH.  I -- I'M REALLY GRATEFUL THAT THE

                    SPONSOR HAS BROUGHT A BILL LIKE THIS FORWARD.  THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I --

                    I'M VERY SURPRISED WOULD BE A THING, THAT THIS WOULD EVEN BE SOMETHING

                    THAT WOULD BE ASKED FOR.  SOMETHING LIKE A SHOCK PROGRAM IS

                    SOMETHING THAT COULD BE A TREMENDOUS BENEFIT TO WHAT USED TO BE JUST

                    YOUNGER, NON-VIOLENT OFFENDERS.  NOW I THINK THAT THEY'VE ACTUALLY

                    EXPANDED THE AGE BRACKET OF PEOPLE WHO COULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS

                    PROGRAM.  BUT, I MEAN, THE SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT, THE ACADEMIC

                    EDUCATION, THE VALUE OF A PROGRAM LIKE THIS, TO -- TO ONLY ADMIT

                    INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM THEIR RELIGION AND NOT --

                    AGREE NOT TO OBSERVE THEIR RELIGION AND TO SIGN A WAIVER SAYING THAT

                    THEY WOULD NOT EXERCISE THAT IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT PROGRAM IS

                    DIFFICULT TO WRAP MY MIND AROUND.  AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS BILL AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES TO

                    DO THE SAME AND I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    WALSH.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         187



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 253.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WISHING TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. WEPRIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I THANK MY

                    COLLEAGUES FOR SUPPORTING THIS LEGISLATION.  WHEN I FIRST HEARD ABOUT IT,

                    I WAS, FRANKLY, A LITTLE SHOCKED, AS WELL, THAT WE'VE GONE OUT OF OUR WAY

                    IN THE STATE SYSTEM, WHETHER IT BE IN THE CORRECTION SYSTEM OR ANY

                    OTHER STATE AGENCIES TO ACCOMMODATE INDIVIDUAL'S FREEDOM OF RELIGION

                    AND EXERCISING THEIR RELIGIOUS RIGHTS.  AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE ARE

                    MANY PROVISIONS FOR INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS TO GET SPECIAL DIETARY

                    MEALS FOR THEIR RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCE, AND TO HAVE RELIGIOUS SERVICES.

                    SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S REALLY -- IT GOES AGAINST, YOU KNOW, ALL FIRST

                    AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND FREEDOM OF RELIGION.  SO, I WITHDRAW MY

                    REQUEST AND PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. WEPRIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY A10194, RULES REPORT NO.

                    265, WEPRIN, SIMON, GOTTFRIED, SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    CORRECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION

                                         188



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    TO ACCESS, VISIT, INSPECT, AND EXAMINE ALL STATE CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  FIRST, ON A MOTION BY

                    MR. WEPRIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  MR. WEPRIN, A [SIC] EXPLANATION IS REQUIRED.

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  YES.  THIS BILL WOULD ADD A NEW

                    SUBDIVISION 32 IN SECTION 2 OF THE CORRECTION LAW TO DEFINE THE

                    CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK, AND ADDS A NEW SUBDIVISION 3

                    TO SECTION 146 OF THE CORRECTION LAW TO PERMIT THE CORRECTIONAL

                    ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK TO ACCESS, VISIT, INSPECT AND EXAMINE ALL

                    STATE CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, AND FURTHER THE MISSION OF THE CORRECTIONAL

                    ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK, WHICH WAS GRANTED LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY

                    UNDER NEW YORK STATE LAW IN 1846 TO MONITOR PRISONS AND ISSUE

                    REPORTS TO THE LEGISLATURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS WALSH.  NO?

                                 MR. GIGLIO.

                                 MR. GIGLIO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  IT IS REALLY

                    GOOD TO SEE ALL OF YOU UP FRONT.  I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN A LONG TIME.  AND

                    IT'S GREAT TO BE IN THIS ROOM, I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE IN A LONG TIME EITHER.

                    BUT I WISH I WASN'T HERE FOR THE REASON I AM.  IT'S ABOUT THIS BILL.  ON

                    THIS BILL.

                                 LET ME START WITH CORRECTIONS.  WHAT HAPPENS IN OUR

                    CORRECTIONS FACILITIES, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT HAPPENS THERE ON A

                    DAILY BASIS IS CALLED SAFE AND SECURE.  YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP

                    EVERYBODY WITHIN THOSE WALLS SAFE AND SECURE.  I BELIEVE THAT THIS BILL

                    GOES A LONG WAY TO STOPPING THAT AND TO MAKING -- INFRINGING ON THAT.  I

                                         189



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    ALSO BELIEVE THIS BILL IS SO EXPANSIVE THAT I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE

                    IT IN ALL THE YEARS I'VE BEEN INVOLVED.

                                 AND LET ME START WITH THE ORIGINAL PREMISE.  THEY CAN

                    SHOW UP AT A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY AT ANY TIME WITHOUT ANY NOTICE WITH

                    UP TO 12 PEOPLE.  I'LL GO BACK TO THE 12 PEOPLE.  WHO ARE THESE 12

                    PEOPLE?  WHAT KIND OF VETTING HAVE THEY HAD?  WHY ARE THEY THERE?

                    AND JUST BECAUSE THE CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION SAYS, THESE ARE THE 12

                    PEOPLE WE DESIGNATE, THERE HAS BEEN NO VETTING AND NO BACKGROUND.

                    SO, I WAS TOLD DURING THE COMMITTEE MEETING THAT, WELL, AS ELECTED

                    OFFICIALS, WE HAVE THAT SAME RIGHT, AND IT'S TRUE, BUT THEN AGAIN, WE'RE

                    VETTED EVERY TWO YEARS.  WE'RE SENT HERE BY OUR DISTRICTS AS THEIR

                    DELEGATE.  EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO WE ARE AND WHY WE'RE HERE.  NOBODY

                    KNOWS WHO THESE FOLKS ARE.  WHO ARE THESE DESIGNEES WHO ARE NOT

                    NECESSARILY PART OF THE CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION, BUT HAVE DECIDED TO

                    COME ALONG.  THEY'RE ALLOWED TO WALK INTO THAT FACILITY WITHOUT ANY

                    NOTICE WHEN THEY'RE ON LOCKDOWN.  LET ME REMIND YOU, LOCKDOWN DOES

                    NOT HAPPEN EVERY DAY.  IT HAPPENS WHEN THERE IS BIG TROUBLE WITHIN THE

                    FACILITY.  WHY WOULD WE INTRODUCE CIVILIANS INTO A PLACE THAT MIGHT BE

                    DANGEROUS?

                                 LET ME GO FURTHER THAN THAT.  NOW LET'S GET INTO THE

                    THINGS THEY CAN LOOK AT, THE LOG BOOKS, E-MAILS, BOOKS, DATA, VIDEO,

                    AUDIO RECORDING, POLICY AND PROCEDURE PERTAINING TO ALL THOSE THINGS.

                    LOG BOOKS ARE A SPECIAL THING ON A BLOCK IN A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY

                    BECAUSE THEY TELL YOU ABOUT THE COMINGS AND GOINGS OF THE DAY.  AND

                    I'M NOT SURE WHAT IN A LOG BOOK WOULD HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT

                                         190



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THEY'RE LOOKING FOR OR EXACTLY WHAT THEIR MISSION IS.

                                 LET ME GO DOWN FURTHER, AND THIS ONE REALLY GETS ME.

                    IT SAYS IT AUTHORIZES THE CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION REQUEST TO PROMPTLY

                    RECEIVE FROM DOCS OR - OR - ANY OTHER STATE AGENCY OR PUBLIC

                    AUTHORITY SUCH PAPER, ELECTRONIC AND DIGITAL RECORDS SO TO ENABLE THE

                    CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION TO CARRY OUT ITS MISSION AND DUTIES

                    REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SUCH REQUESTED RECORDS COULD HAVE BEEN

                    WITHHELD UNDER ARTICLE XI OF FOIL AND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW.  IT

                    PROVIDES THAT ANY SUCH RECORD DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A WAIVER FOR ANY

                    CONFIDENTIALITY OR PRIVILEGE REGARDING SUCH RECORDS.  NOW YOU'RE NOT

                    JUST TALKING ABOUT CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT

                    EVERY SINGLE STATE AGENCY.  EVERY SINGLE ONE.  I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY

                    WHAT THAT WOULD HAVE TO DO WITH THE OPERATIONS OF A CORRECTIONAL

                    FACILITY OR BY DOCS, BUT THAT'S WHERE YOU ARE.

                                 THEN, THE LAST PART OF THIS THAT GOT ME A LITTLE BIT

                    FRIGHTENED IS IT SAYS, IN ANY CASE WHERE DOCS OR AN EMPLOYEE FAILED

                    TO COMPLY WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THIS BILL AUTHORIZED THE CORRECTIONAL

                    ASSOCIATION TO APPLY TO THE SUPREME COURT FOR AN ORDER DIRECTED TO

                    DOCS, OR SUCH EMPLOYEE REQUIRING COMPLIANCE THEREWITH.  FAILURE TO

                    COMPLY WITH THIS ORDER SHALL BE CONTEMPT OF COURT.  ANY ACTION OR

                    PROCEEDING COMMENCED BY THIS GROUP PURSUANT TO THIS BILL SHALL HAVE -

                    AND THIS IS THE KEY WORD - PREFERENCE OVER ALL OTHER CASES EXCEPT

                    HABEAS CORPUS PROCEEDINGS AND PENDING BEFORE THE COURT.

                                 SO NOT ONLY DO THEY WANT TO GO TO EVERY SINGLE STATE

                    AGENCY AND BE ABLE TO GET ALL THEIR RECORDS, NOT ONLY WILL THEY FILE A

                                         191



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    FOIL BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO, BUT THEN WHEN YOU GET TO THE

                    SUPREME COURT, YOUR CASE TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER EVERYTHING.  LET ME

                    REMIND YOU THAT THE WOMEN AND MEN IN DOCS AND ANY OTHER CIVILIAN

                    EMPLOYEES HAVE UNION REPRESENTATION.  THEY HAVE RIGHTS, TOO.  AND,

                    AGAIN, THIS -- THIS GOES WAY BEYOND IT.  I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ANYBODY

                    COULD EVEN THINK OF THESE THINGS.  AND LET'S GET BACK TO WHO RUNS THESE

                    FACILITIES.  THE STATE OF NEW YORK RUNS THESE FACILITIES.  WE ARE A

                    PUBLIC ENTITY THAT RUNS THESE FACILITIES.  THE PEOPLE IN THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK GIVE US, BY THEIR CONSENT, THE ABILITY TO DO THESE THINGS.  IF YOU

                    LOOK AT THIS BILL, THEY DON'T ONLY WANT TO DO TO THE COMMISSION OF

                    CORRECTION'S WORK AND DOCS' WORK, BUT EVERYONE ELSE'S, TOO.  I HAVE

                    NEVER SEEN A BILL THIS EXPANSIVE IN ALL MY TIME IN THIS BODY AND ALL MY

                    TIME WORKING IN CORRECTIONS.  I FIND THIS UNBELIEVABLY BROAD AND

                    EXPANSIVE.

                                 I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE GOAL IS AND WHAT THEY REALLY

                    WANT OUT OF THIS.  THERE HAS BEEN GREAT COOPERATION BETWEEN THE

                    EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THIS LEGISLATURE WITH THE CORRECTIONAL

                    ASSOCIATION, AND WE ARE NOT ARGUING OVER THEIR MISSION.  THEIR MISSION

                    IS VERY IMPORTANT, BUT YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF YOUR MIND TO BELIEVE THAT

                    YOU WOULD SUSPEND EVERYBODY ELSE'S RIGHTS FOR THEM AND THEN NOT

                    KNOWING WHO OR WHAT THEY ARE WHEN THEY'RE COMING BEHIND THOSE --

                    THOSE WALLS.

                                 I'M SORRY.  THIS BILL IS WAY TOO EXPANSIVE, WAY TOO

                    DANGEROUS AND IT DOES NO GOOD FOR ANYBODY WITHIN THOSE WALLS OR THE

                    PUBLIC OUTSIDE THOSE WALLS.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                         192



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 265.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE; HOWEVER, IF I'M MISTAKEN

                    ABOUT ANY MEMBER, THEY SHOULD CONTACT THE LEADER'S OFFICE, THE

                    MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND ADVISE THEM THAT THEY WANT A DIFFERENT

                    VOTE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, THE

                    MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION.  SHOULD ANY OF OUR COLLEAGUES DESIRE TO DO OTHERWISE, THEY

                    CAN FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE OFFICES AND WE WILL PROPERLY RECORD THEIR

                    VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. PALMESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                         193



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  MY

                    COLLEAGUE DID A GREAT JOB EXPLAINING THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS BILL.  I'M

                    GOING TO BE VOTING NO.  WHAT I WANTED TO EMPHASIZE, THOUGH, IF WE

                    REALLY WANT TO GET SERIOUS ABOUT ADDRESSING POLICIES GOING IN OUR

                    CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT PROVIDING TOOLS AND

                    RESOURCES TO OUR CORRECTION'S OFFICERS AND STAFF THAT WORKING IN A VERY

                    DANGEROUS ENVIRONMENT.  WE CONTINUE TO SEE IT FROM OUR PRISON

                    CLOSURES, FROM THE POLICIES TAKING TOOLS AND RESOURCES AWAY FROM OUR

                    CORRECTION'S OFFICERS.

                                 OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS, VIOLENCE IS UP DRAMATICALLY

                    IN OUR PRISONS.  IT'S A POWDER KEG ENVIRONMENT BASED ON THE POLICIES

                    WE CONTINUE TO SEE OUT OF THIS ADMINISTRATION.  THERE'S GANG VIOLENCE,

                    INMATE ON INMATE STAFF ASSAULT -- INMATE ON INMATE ASSAULTS ARE UP OVER

                    40 PERCENT.  INMATE ON STAFF ASSAULTS ARE UP 40 PERCENT.  I MEAN, WE

                    CONTINUE TO SEE THIS POWDER KEG ENVIRONMENT GOING ON IN OUR FACILITIES.

                    IT'S A VERY DANGEROUS ENVIRONMENT.  DRUGS ARE GETTING INTO OUR FACILITIES

                    LEFT AND RIGHT, WHETHER THEY'RE THROUGH VISITATION OR WHETHER THROUGH

                    PACKAGE.  WE HAD A SECURE VENDOR PILOT PROGRAM THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO

                    BE STARTED.  IT STARTED AND IT GOT CANCELLED BY THE ADMINISTRATION.  WE

                    HAVE NOTHING THERE TO HELP STOP GETTING CONTRABAND INTO OUR FACILITIES,

                    AND WE HAD LEGISLATION IN COMMITTEE TO TRY TO MOVE THAT FORWARD.  IT

                    WAS -- IT WAS TURNED DOWN.  WE HAD IDEAS THAT COULD HELP KEEP THE

                    DRUGS OUT OF THE PRISONS.  THE DRUGS GETTING IN OUR PRISONS ARE THE

                    THINGS THAT HELP CAUSE VIOLENCE.  WE HAVE GANG ACTIVITY.

                                 LET'S GET SERIOUS ABOUT ADDRESSING WHAT'S GOING IN OUR

                                         194



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    FACILITIES.  THERE'S TOO MUCH VIOLENCE.  OUR -- OUR BRAVE MEN AND

                    WOMEN WHO ARE WORKING IN THESE FACILITIES RISK THEIR LIVES EACH AND

                    EVERY DAY, AND THE ASSAULTS THAT ARE GOING ON, IT'S NOT SAFE FOR THEM AND

                    IT'S NOT SAFE FOR OTHER INMATES WITH THE VIOLENCE WE SEE GOING ON.  SO,

                    THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE SHOULD BE WORKING ON IF WE WANT TO

                    DEAL WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, BECAUSE THE

                    POLICIES THAT WE'RE SEEING COMING OUT OF THE ADMINISTRATION AND THIS

                    BODY IS NOT WORKING, IT'S NOT DOING ANYTHING TO KEEP OUR -- CORRECTIONS

                    OFFICERS AND STAFF WORKING IN THOSE FACILITIES ANY SAFER; IN FACT, IT'S

                    GETTING MORE AND MORE DANGEROUS EACH AND EVERY DAY, EACH AND EVERY

                    YEAR, AND WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND WE NEED TO DO

                    SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

                    WOULD PLEASE HAVE OUR COLLEAGUE, MRS. GUNTHER, VOTING IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THERE MIGHT BE MORE,

                    MR. SPEAKER.  THANK YOU.

                                 AND MRS. -- MS. BUTTENSCHON, AS WELL.  AND MS.

                    GRIFFIN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 MR. BARRON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                         195



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 MR. BARRON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS IS A

                    GREAT BILL.  I KNOW THIS AGENCY FOR A LONG TIME, THE CORRECTIONAL

                    ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK.  THEY DO GREAT WORK IN PRISONS AND THEY

                    PUSH FOR REFORM, THEY PUSH FOR POSITIVE THINGS IN THE PRISON SYSTEM.  I

                    THINK IT'S A GOOD BILL.  I THINK THEIR OVERSIGHT OVER THE YEARS, EVEN WHEN

                    THEY DON'T HAVE AMENABLE ACCESS HAS BEEN PHENOMENAL.  I CAN

                    REMEMBER YEARS AGO WHEN THEY WERE EVEN CAMPAIGNING AGAINST THE

                    PRISON BOND ISSUE WHERE THEY WANTED TO USE STATE BONDS TO BUILD MORE

                    PRISONS AND THEY WERE SAYING, NO, THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES TO

                    INCARCERATION, LIKE COMMUNITY SENTENCING AND -- AND OTHER KINDS OF

                    THINGS.

                                 SO, I THINK THIS IS A GREAT BILL.  I THINK IT WILL DO ALL OF

                    THOSE THINGS THAT THE PRIOR SPEAKER SPOKE OF.  THE CORRECTIONAL

                    ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK HAS BEEN ALWAYS A POSITIVE FORCE TO

                    REMEDIATE AND RESOLVE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES.  SO, I DON'T SEE WHY THEY

                    SHOULDN'T HAVE ACCESS, AND EASY ACCESS.  I THINK IT WILL BE A BENEFIT TO

                    THE STATE PRISON SYSTEM TO HAVE A GROUP LIKE THIS INVOLVED.  SO, I WANT

                    TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BARRON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, THERE IS A

                                         196



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    BRIEF CHANGE IN OUR ORIGINALLY PROPOSED AGENDA, SO WE'RE GOING TO GO TO

                    CALENDAR NO. 47, WHICH IS BY MEMBER ROSENTHAL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01026, CALENDAR NO.

                    47, L. ROSENTHAL, PERRY, WEPRIN, SEAWRIGHT, BLAKE.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND RULES, IN RELATION TO INCREASING PENALTIES

                    FOR FAILURE TO EXECUTE AND FILE SATISFIED JUDGMENTS OF $5,000 OR MORE

                    WITH THE COURT CLERK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    ROSENTHAL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  UNDER CURRENT LAW, IF A JUDGMENT IS

                    RENDERED BY A COURT AGAINST A DEBTOR, AND THE DEBTOR EVENTUALLY PAYS

                    OFF THE JUDGMENT, WHICH WE ALWAYS HOPE HAPPENS, UNDER CURRENT LAW

                    THE CREDITOR WHO FINALLY GOT PAID HAS 20 DAYS TO FILE A SATISFACTION, AND

                    IF THEY DON'T, THEY CAN BE SUBJECTED TO A $500 FINE -- OR A $100 CIVIL

                    PENALTY, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT IRONIC THAT YOU MIGHT GO TO COURT, GO

                    THROUGH A WHOLE TRIAL, GET A JUDGMENT, CHASE AFTER THE JUDGMENT

                    CREDITOR, HAVE DEPOSITIONS, DO EXECUTIONS - THAT'S NOT WITH A GUN, THAT'S

                    WITH LEGAL PROCESS - SEIZE CERTAIN PROPERTY, GO THROUGH A SALE BY THE

                    SHERIFF.  AND AFTER ALL THAT EFFORT, YOU FINALLY GET PAID, OFTEN WITH NO

                                         197



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    COOPERATION FROM THE JUDGMENT DEBTOR.  YOU THEN HAVE TO FILE A

                    SATISFACTION WITHIN 20 DAYS, EVEN THOUGH IT MAY HAVE TAKEN YOU FIVE

                    YEARS TO GET THERE, YOU HAVE 20 DAYS TO FILE A SATISFACTION AND IF YOU

                    DON'T, YOU END UP PAYING $100 TO THE JUDGMENT DEBTOR WHO OWED YOU

                    ALL THAT MONEY FOR ALL THAT TIME.

                                 WELL, THIS BILL AMENDS THE LAW AND SAYS IF THE ORIGINAL

                    JUDGMENT WAS FOR MORE THAN $5,000, THEN YOU -- AND YOU DON'T SATISFY

                    THE JUDGMENT WITHIN 20 DAYS, THE PENALTY IS FIVE TIMES HIGHER THAN IT IS

                    UNDER CURRENT LAW, IT'D BE $500.  THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS AS THE

                    JUDGMENT GETS LARGER, SO DOES THE COMPLEXITY SOMETIMES IN GETTING A

                    SATISFACTION SIGNED BECAUSE THE JUDGMENT MIGHT COME FROM A

                    CORPORATION, AND THE LAWSUIT MAY INVOLVE LAWYERS.  AND SO, THE

                    PAYMENT MIGHT BE TO A CLERK OF A CORPORATION AND IT MAY TAKE TIME FOR

                    THAT CLERK TO NOTIFY THE PROPER STAFF AND THE CORPORATION TO GET BACK TO

                    THE ATTORNEY TO MAKE SURE A PROPER RELEASE OR A DISCHARGE IS PREPARED

                    AND SENT BACK TO THE CORPORATION TO BE SIGNED.  AND, OF COURSE, THESE

                    ARE RECORDED SO IT HAS TO BE NOTARIZED, AND BACK TO THE COUNTY CLERK ALL

                    WITHIN LESS THAN THREE WEEKS.

                                 SO, THIS IS AN INTERESTING BILL WHERE WE PROVIDE A

                    MUCH BIGGER OPPORTUNITY FOR A JUDGMENT CREDITOR WHO OWES A LOT MORE

                    MONEY, WHO FINALLY PAYS OFF THE JUDGMENT, TO COLLECT A $500 REFUND, IF

                    YOU WILL, IF THAT SATISFACTION ISN'T FILED WITHIN 20 DAYS.  I THINK THE $100

                    INCENTIVE IS ENOUGH AND I ALWAYS WINCE WHEN WE INCREASE THE PENALTY

                    TO SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T RESPOND IN LESS THAN THREE WEEKS TO A

                    JUDGMENT THEY MAY HAVE BEEN SEEKING TO GET SATISFIED FOR YEARS.

                                         198



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 SO, FOR THAT REASON, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS AND

                    RECOMMENDING TO MY COLLEAGUES THAT THEY ALSO NOT SUPPORT THIS

                    CHANGE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON CALENDAR NO. 47.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WISHING TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY IN THE NEGATIVE, BUT IF THERE ARE THOSE

                    WHO WISH TO SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION, THEY SHOULD CALL THE MINORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  SO

                    NOTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE

                    ON THIS ONE.  WE ASK COLLEAGUES WHO WOULD CHOOSE NOT TO VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE, TO PLEASE CONTACT THE RESPECTIVE OFFICE AND WE WILL RECORD

                    YOUR VOTE.

                                         199



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  IF WE COULD RECORD OUR

                    COLLEAGUES MR. DILAN AND MS. WOERNER IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, DO WE

                    HAVE ANY HOUSEKEEPING AND/OR RESOLUTIONS TO TAKE UP?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  NO HOUSEKEEPING,

                    MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES; HOWEVER, WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF FINE

                    RESOLUTIONS WHICH WE WILL TAKE UP WITH ONE VOTE.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

                    AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 974-977

                    WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I NOW

                    MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL 10:00 A.M., THURSDAY,

                    JULY THE 23RD, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.  AGAIN, 10:00 A.M.,

                                         200



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                        JULY 22, 2020

                    THURSDAY, JULY THE 23RD.  TOMORROW IS A SESSION DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  I'M NOT GOING TO ASK

                    YOU THAT TIME AGAIN, BECAUSE I WAS FOOLED ONCE.  FOOL ME TWICE, I DON'T

                    KNOW.

                                 THE ASSEMBLY STANDS ADJOURNED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 9:05 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD

                    ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, JULY 23RD AT 10:00 A.M., THURSDAY BEING A

                    SESSION DAY.)



































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