WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 20, 2021 12:31 P.M.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME

TO ORDER.

IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

SILENCE.

(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

OF ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, JANUARY 19TH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THAT WE DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY,

JANUARY THE 19TH AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

ORDERED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. IF I COULD, WITH MY COLLEAGUES BOTH IN THE CHAMBERS AND

THOSE WHO ARE REMOTE, SHARE WITH A QUOTE FOR TODAY FROM, AGAIN, THE

REVEREND DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING. TODAY DR. KING IS SAYING TO US,

"WHATEVER AFFECTS ONE DIRECTLY, AFFECTS ALL INDIRECTLY. I CAN NEVER BE

WHAT I OUGHT TO BE UNTIL YOU ARE WHAT YOU OUGHT TO BE. THIS IS THE

INTERRELATED STRUCTURE OF REALITY." AGAIN, DR. REVEREND MARTIN LUTHER

KING.

MR. SPEAKER, MEMBERS DO HAVE ON THEIR DESKS A

CALENDAR. A MAIN CALENDAR AND AN A-CALENDAR. THE A-CALENDAR I

WOULD NOW LIKE TO ADVANCE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN OUR WORK TODAY BY TAKING UP A

RESOLUTION BY MS. SOLAGES, AND WHAT SHE IS GOING TO SPEAK ON, MR.

SPEAKER, REGARDING THE HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE DAY. WE WILL THEN PRO

-- PROCEED TO TAKE UP THE A-CALENDAR WHICH CONTAINS ONE BILL BY MR.

ZEBROWSKI. IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING SESSION THERE WILL BE A NEED FOR A

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MAJORITY CONFERENCE, AND AS ALWAYS WE WILL CHECK WITH OUR COLLEAGUES

ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE TO DETERMINE THEIR NEEDS.

MR. SPEAKER, THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE. AND IF WE

HAVE ANY HOUSEKEEPING, NOW WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME FOR THAT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NO HOUSEKEEPING.

WE WILL PROCEED RIGHT TO THE RESOLUTION.

THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 17, MS.

SOLAGES.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JANUARY 1ST, 2021 AS HAITIAN

INDEPENDENCE DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AT THIS

HISTORICAL TIME, MR. SPEAKER, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE ANOTHER

INFLUENTIAL TIME IN OUR HISTORY. TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO

ON JANUARY 1, 1804, HAITI FORMALLY DECLARED ITS INDEPENDENCE FROM

FRANCE AT THE END OF A BITTER WAR AGAINST FORCES SENT BY NAPOLEON

BONAPARTE. THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION INVOLVED ARMIES FROM FRANCE,

BRITAIN, SPAIN AND ARMIES OF SLAVES AND FORMER SLAVES AND FREED

NON-WHITE COLONIAL RESIDENTS. ALLIANCES CHANGED THROUGHOUT THE WAR,

BUT IT WAS AN INTERNATIONAL AFFAIR FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. THROUGH

THE STRUGGLE, THE HAITIAN PEOPLE ULTIMATELY WON THEIR INDEPENDENCE

FROM FRANCE AND THEREBY BECOMING THE FIRST COUNTRY TO BE FOUNDED BY

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

FORMER SLAVES. THE HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE HAD MANY INTERNATIONAL

REPERCUSSIONS. IT ENDED NAPOLEON'S ATTEMPT TO CREATE A FRENCH EMPIRE

IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, AND ALSO CAUSED FRANCE TO DECIDE TO SELL

ITS NORTH AMERICAN HOLDINGS TO THE UNITED STATES. HOWEVER, IT ALSO

EXPEDITED THE MOVE FOR BOTH FRANCE AND BRITAIN TO ABOLISH THE SEASON

OF AFRICANS AS SLAVES AND LED TO THE END OF THE TRANSATLANTIC SLAVE

TRADE.

WITH THIS RESOLUTION, MR. SPEAKER, WE HONOR HAITI'S

LEGACY. TODAY THE DIASPORA IN NEW YORK CONTINUES TO EFFECT CHANGE. I

WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK ALL THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS OF HAITIAN

DESCENT, AND ALL THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS WHO ARE CURRENTLY FIGHTING

AGAINST THE GLOBAL COVID-19 PANDEMIC. YOUR COURAGE AND BRAVERY IS

HONORABLE. AND IT REMINDS US MORE THAN EVER THE IMPORTANCE OF

SOLIDARITY AND UNITY.

WITH THAT, I WISH ALL INDIVIDUALS OF HAITIAN DESCENT A

HAPPY HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE DAY AND ENCOURAGE YOU TO CONTINUE TO

SHARE AYITI'S CULTURE AND TRADITION.

THANK YOU, MR. -- MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MS.

SOLAGES.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN ON THE RESOLUTION.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK ON THIS RESOLUTION OF THE HAITIAN

INDEPENDENCE DAY ON THIS HISTORICAL -- ON THIS HISTORICAL DAY FOR

AMERICA IN ITS INAUGURAL DAY FOR OUR PRESIDENT, JOSEPH BIDEN AND VICE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS. AS WE REFLECT ON THE MANY CONTRIBUTIONS

THAT HAITI AND THE HAITIAN PEOPLE HAS OFFERED THIS NATION, HAITI, WHICH

IS THE FIRST BLACK NATION TO GAIN ITS INDEPENDENCE 217 YEARS AGO IN

1804, WAS THE ONLY SUCCESSFUL BLACK SLAVE REVOLT. THIS SLAVE ABOLITION

MOVEMENT HAS PAVED THE WAY TO FREE OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE CARIBBEAN

ISLANDS AND OTHERS LIKE IN BOLIVIA AND SOUTH AMERICA AND THE U.S. THAT

AFTER HAITIANS DEFEATED NAPOLEON AND THE FRENCH ARMY ALLOWED THE

EXPANSION OF THE UNITED STATES WITH THE PURCHASE OF THE LOUISIANA

TERRITORY. AND LET'S NOT FORGET THE SYMBOLISM OF THE SAVANNAH,

GEORGIA'S HAITIAN MONUMENT IN FRANKLIN SQUARE HONORING THE LARGEST

UNIT OF MEN OF AFRICAN DESCENT WHO WERE RECRUITED FROM PRESENT-DAY

HAITI TO SERVE IN THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR, THE BATTLE OF SAVANNAH,

GEORGIA, WHICH OCCURRED BETWEEN SEPTEMBER 16TH AND OCTOBER 18TH,

1779. IT BECAME ONE OF THE BLOODIEST BATTLES DURING THE AMERICAN

REVOLUTIONARY WAR. THIS MEMORIAL PLAYS TRIBUTE TO THE SIGNIFICANT

ROLES THESE SOLDIERS HAD DURING THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR AND RECOGNIZES

THE SUPPORT THEY GAVE TO THE FOUNDING OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

LIKE MANY TOGETHER WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS NATION, WE MUST NOT

FORGET THE SACRIFICES IT TAKES TO GAIN DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM, FAIRNESS. A

LIFETIME OF FOREVER BATTLES. RECOGNIZING THE ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL

INJUSTICES THAT HAITI HAD TO UNDERGO UNDER A DICTATORSHIP REGIME THAT

LEAVES THIS COUNTRY TODAY WITH NEVER-ENDING DEMOCRATIC IMBALANCES

AND CLIMATE DISASTER LIKE THE EARTHQUAKE THAT HAPPENED 11 YEARS AGO ON

JANUARY 12TH, 2010 THAT IMPACTED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

WE WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT DAY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

AS I CALL ON MY ANCESTORS TOUSSAINT LOUVERTURE,

PÉTION, OR JAMAICAN DUTTY BOUKMAN AND GRENADIAN HENRI CHRISTOPHE

AND MY GREAT-GREAT GRANDFATHER, JEAN-JACQUES DESSALINES, ALL WHO WERE

REVOLUTIONISTS, I THINK OF THE SPIRIT OF HAITI AND THE HAITIAN PEOPLE, THAT

OUR SPIRIT CAN NEVER BE BROKEN. AND WE CONTINUE TO STRIVE FOR EQUITY

AND FAIRNESS BECAUSE THAT STRIVE IS MADE WITH STEEL. WHICH IS WHY I

DECIDED TO WED WITH MY HUSBAND EDU HERMELYN ON HAITIAN

INDEPENDENCE DAY, JANUARY 1, 2021.

SO I SALUTE MY ANCESTORS OF WOMEN, WOMEN HAITIAN

HEROES LIKE CATHERINE FLON, WHO WAS THE SEAMSTRESS OF THE HAITIAN

FLAG. QUEEN ANACAONA, CÉCILE FATIMAN, A SENEGALESE MAMBO.

ADBARAYA TOYA, THE AFRICAN WHO ADOPTED JEAN-JACQUES DESSALINES.

SHE'S THE WARRIOR. MARIE-CLAIRE FÉLICITÉ, WHO WAS THE SPOUSE OF

JEAN-JACQUES DESSALINES, A HUMANITARIAN. LIEUTENANT SANITÉ BÉLAIR,

FREEDOM FIGHTER IN TOUSSAINT'S ARMY. CATHERINE FLON, I MENTIONED

ALREADY, THE SEAMSTRESS OF THE HAITIAN FLAG. AND SO MANY MORE.

AND SO I SALUTE THESE HEROES AND SHEROES IN THE SPIRIT

OF DEMOCRACY, IN THE SPIRIT OF FREEDOM, IN THE SPIRIT OF JUSTICE, SOCIAL

JUSTICE, AND EQUITY, AND I SALUTE IN THE SPIRIT AND IN PRAYER FOR OUR VICE

PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS, OUR PRESIDENT, JOE BIDEN, THAT WE WILL DEFEAT

HATE, WE WILL DEFEAT INJUSTICE AND INEQUITIES.

SO WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD LIKE TO SALUTE ALL OF

MY HAITIAN PEOPLE, HAITIAN-AMERICANS ACROSS THE WORLD. ALL OF OUR

FRONTLINE WORKERS, OUR ESSENTIAL WORKERS. I THANK EVERYONE. AND I

THANK ALL THE FRIENDS WHO BATTLED WITH THE HAITIAN PEOPLE. ALL THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

FRIENDS AND FAMILIES WHO RECOGNIZE THE HAITIAN PEOPLE AND RECOGNIZE

THE HISTORY OF THE HAITIAN PEOPLE AND UPLIFT US WHEN WE UPLIFT HAITI

AND ITS CONTRIBUTIONS, AND UPLIFT HAITI WHEN HAITI IS DOWN AND

SUFFERING. WE THANK ALL OF OUR FRIENDS OF HAITI.

HAPPY HAITI [SIC] INDEPENDENCE DAY. (SPEAKING

HAITIAN). THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. FRONTUS ON THE RESOLUTION.

MS. FRONTUS: THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

I APPRECIATE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THIS RESOLUTION TO

COMMEMORATE HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE DAY. THE STORY OF HAITIAN

INDEPENDENCE IS ONE WHICH HAS REVERBERATED ACROSS THE ENTIRE GLOBE

SINCE JANUARY 1ST, 1804. IT IS A STORY OF THE FIRST BLACK NATION IN THE

WESTERN HEMISPHERE TO OVERTHROW A COLONIAL REGIME AND ESTABLISH AN

INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOUNDED AND GOVERNED BY FORMERLY ENSLAVED

AFRICANS. TO DATE, IT REMAINS THE ONLY SUCCESSFUL SLAVE RESULT -- SLAVE

REVOLT IN HISTORY. HOWEVER, IT WOULD NOW SERVE AS THE FOUNDATION FOR

OTHER FREEDOM STRUGGLES AROUND THE WORLD FOR PEOPLE OF AFRICAN

DESCENT. HERE IN THE UNITED STATES BETWEEN 1619 WHEN AFRICANS WERE

FIRST BROUGHT HERE IN SHACKLES AGAINST THEIR WILL UNTIL 1865 WHEN

SLAVERY WAS OFFICIALLY ABOLISHED, THERE WERE SOME 250 SLAVE REBELLIONS.

WE KNOW OF NAT TURNER IN 1831 WHO ENLISTED APPROXIMATELY 60 OTHER

SLAVES TO OVERTHROW THEIR OWNERS. THE STONO REBELLION IN SOUTH

CAROLINA IN 1739 WHICH BEGAN WITH A GROUP OF ABOUT 20 SLAVES BUT

GREW IN SIZE TO ABOUT 100. TO SAY NOTHING OF HERE IN NEW YORK STATE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

WHICH HAD MANY SLAVE UPRISINGS, THERE WAS ONE IN 1708 IN LONG

ISLAND, ONE IN 1741 IN NEW YORK CITY, AND LET'S NOT FORGET ALBANY,

NEW YORK IN 1793.

AS WE CELEBRATED DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY JUST

TWO DAYS AGO, ONE OF HIS MOST FAMOUS QUOTES WAS, "IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO

BE IN FAVOR OF JUSTICE FOR SOME PEOPLE AND NOT BE IN FAVOR OF JUSTICE FOR

ALL PEOPLE." IT IS ON THIS PREMISE THAT THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION WAS

FOUNDED. I'D LIKE TO CALL IT THE ORIGINAL BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT.

IT WAS A MOVEMENT WHERE BLACK PEOPLE ASSERTED THEIR RIGHT TO DIGNITY,

TO FREEDOM, INDEPENDENCE FROM BONDAGE, INDEPENDENCE FROM CONTROL,

AND INDEPENDENCE FROM INSTITUTIONALIZED RACISM. WHILE WE CELEBRATE

THE TREMENDOUS COURAGE, THE FORESIGHT, THE LEADERSHIP AND THE EXPERTISE

OF TOUSSAINT LOUVERTURE, JEAN-JACQUES DESSALINES AND ALL THOSE WHO

HAD A HAND IN HAITI'S SUCCESSFUL REBELLION, WE MUST ALSO RECOGNIZE THE

STRUGGLE FOR BLACK FREEDOM THAT HAS CONTINUED EVER SINCE. AROUND THE

WORLD TODAY, INCLUDING RIGHT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, PEOPLE OF

AFRICAN DESCENT CONTINUE TO ASSERT THEIR RIGHT FOR SELF-DETERMINATION,

DIGNITY, RESPECT, JUSTICE AND EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW.

I WANT TO THANK THE HAITIAN REVOLUTIONARIES FOR SETTING

THE WHEEL IN MOTION AND SHOWING THE WHOLE WORLD THAT BLACK FREEDOM

WON'T WAIT, BECAUSE, AS IT'S BEEN SAID BEFORE, NONE OF US ARE FREE UNTIL

ALL OF US ARE FREE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MS.

FRONTUS.

MR. BARRON.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

YOU HAVE TO UNMUTE YOURSELF, MR. BARRON.

(PAUSE)

OKAY, WE WILL COME BACK.

MR. LAWLER.

MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AS I

MENTIONED YESTERDAY DURING MY REMARKS ON THE RESOLUTION HONORING

DR. KING, I'M PROUD TO REPRESENT ONE OF THE MORE DIVERSE DISTRICTS IN

THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AND THAT DIVERSITY INCLUDES A LARGE AND GROWING

HAITIAN COMMUNITY IN THE VILLAGE OF SPRING VALLEY AND PART IN THE

VILLAGE OF NYACK. AND SO I'M PROUD TO RISE IN SUPPORT OF THIS

RESOLUTION HONORING HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE DAY, AND LOOK FORWARD OVER

THE NEXT TWO YEARS TO REPRESENTING OUR -- OUR GREAT AND GROWING HAITIAN

COMMUNITY IN ROCKLAND COUNTY IN THE VILLAGE OF SPRING VALLEY, AND

LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH OUR RESIDENTS, OUR COMMUNITY LEADERS.

I'M PROUD TO HAVE HIRED A STAFF MEMBER WHO SPEAKS CREOLE AND -- AND

CAN HELP SERVE -- BETTER SERVE THAT COMMUNITY WITHIN MY DISTRICT.

SO I RISE IN SUPPORT AND WILL BE VOTING IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS RESOLUTION. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

AGAIN, BACK TO MR. BARRON.

MR. BARRON: THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO SAY TO

PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT, IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO JUST WAX ELOQUENTLY ABOUT

THE HAITIAN REVOLUTIONARY AND NOT SET THE EXAMPLE AND ACT

REVOLUTIONARY IN THIS PEOPLE'S CHAMBERS ESPECIALLY DURING BUDGET TIME.

THE HAITIAN REVOLUTIONARIES BOUKMAN, DESSALINES, HENRI CHRISTOPHE,

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THEY SET AN EXAMPLE FOR US. WE ARE AN AFRICAN PEOPLE. NO MATTER

WHERE THE BOATS DROPPED YOU OFF, DR. CLARK REMINDS US THAT WE'RE NOT

WHO WE ARE BASED UPON WHERE THE SHIPS DROPPED YOU OFF. WE'RE WHO

WE ARE BASED UPON WHERE THE SHIPS PICKED US UP FROM, AFRICA. SO WE

ARE AN AFRICAN PEOPLE. AND WHEN WE QUOTE MARTIN LUTHER KING

ELOQUENTLY, WHEN WE WAX ELOQUENTLY ABOUT THE GREAT HAITIAN

REVOLUTION THAT WE DO EVERY YEAR, AND THEN WHEN WE SIT BACK AND

ALLOW FRANCE TO HAVE HAITI PAY REPARATIONS TO THEM, ALLOW AMERICA TO

NOT PAY REPARATIONS TO HAITI AND ALLOW OTHERS TO GO IN AND EXPLOIT THE

ECONOMIC MISERY IN HAITI. AND HAITI'S A RICH COUNTRY, NOT A POOR

COUNTRY. IT'S RICH IN RESOURCES. AND IMPERIALISM AND GREEDY

CAPITALISM HAS EXPLOITED THE HAITIAN PEOPLE. SO WHEN WE HAVE THESE

EVENTS AND WE DO OUR RESEARCH AND EXPRESS THE HISTORY, HISTORY HAS

BEEN DONE SO THAT YOU CAN DO THE SAME IN YOUR TIME. SO WHEN WE TALK

ABOUT MARTIN LUTHER KING, THEN WE CAN'T GET TO THE BUDGET TIME $180

BILLION BUDGET-PLUS AND DON'T MAKE THE GOVERNOR PUT IN A

MULTI-BILLION-DOLLAR PLAN FOR ANTIPOVERTY THAT KING DIED FOR. WHEN WE

TALK ABOUT THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION, DESSALINES, WE GOT TO HAVE HIS SPIRIT

TO SAY, I'M GOING TO ACT LIKE A REVOLUTIONARY, TOO, IN MY TIME. IT'S EASY

TO REVIEW HISTORY AND GIVE ACCOLADES TO THOSE WHO GAVE UP THEIR LIVES

SO YOU CAN BE HERE TODAY. THE HAITIAN REVOLUTIONARIES GAVE UP THEIR

LIVES SO THAT -- AND AMERICA EXPANDED BECAUSE OF THAT, AS SOME OF YOU

MENTIONED. SO I'M HOPING THAT REMEMBER TOUSSAINT, REMEMBER

BOUKMAN, REMEMBER HENRI CHRISTOPHE, REMEMBER DESSALINES DURING

BUDGET TIME. REMEMBER MALCOLM X. REMEMBER THE STONO REBELLION

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS DURING BUDGET TIME. IT'S EASY TO DO IT NOW. IT'S

EASY TO WAX ELOQUENTLY NOW, AND THEN WHEN YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY

TO SAY THAT THESE VERY PEOPLE OF AFRICAN ANCESTRY, IN SOME OF THE MOST

IMPOVERISHED COMMUNITIES IN THIS STATE, A STATE WITH AN $180

BILLION-PLUS BUDGET, A CITY WITH A $90 BILLION-PLUS BUDGET AND HAVE

MORE ABJECT POVERTY IN BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES THAN ANY PLACE.

SO LET'S PUT SOME MEAT, LET'S PUT SOME CONVICTION AND COURAGE. LET'S

ACT LIKE TOUSSAINT DURING BUDGET TIME, AND LET'S ACT LIKE DESSALINES AND

HENRI CHRISTOPHE AND BOUKMAN DURING BUDGET TIME. AND REMEMBER,

WE ARE ONE AFRICAN PEOPLE. WHETHER YOU SPEAK ENGLISH, THE TONGUE OF

YOUR OPPRESSOR; FRENCH, THE TONGUE OF YOUR OPPRESSOR; SPANISH, THE

TONGUE OF YOUR OPPRESSOR; OR NO MATTER WHERE YOU CAME FROM IN THE

DIASPORA, WE ARE ONE AFRICAN PEOPLE AND WE OWE IT TO OUR CHILDREN TO

MAKE THIS PLACE A BETTER PLACE AND PRIORITIZE OUR FREEDOM AND

LIBERATION OVER YOUR PERSONAL AMBITION. PRIORITIZE THE PEOPLE OVER

YOUR PARTY. PRIORITIZE NEED OVER CAPITALIST GREED. AND PRIORITIZE

LIBERATION OVER JUST MERELY SURVIVING. (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOUFFRANT

FORREST.

MS. SOUFFRANT FORREST: THANK YOU,

EVERYONE. I'M REALLY EXCITED TO TALK TODAY ON A TOPIC THAT I GET SUPER,

SUPER EXCITED ABOUT ALL THE TIME, WHICH IS HAITI, MY HOMELAND. IN

PARTICULAR, THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION WHICH TOOK BETWEEN -- WHICH TOOK

PLACE BETWEEN 1791-1804 IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE HAITI IS THE ONLY

COUNTRY WHERE SLAVE -- WHERE SLAVE FREEDOM WAS TAKEN BY FORCE AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MARKS THE ONLY SUCCESSFUL SLAVE REVOLT IN MODERN TIMES. A FORCE OF

SLAVES MANAGED TO UNIFY HAITI, DEFEAT EUROPE'S MOST POWERFUL ARMY,

AND BECOME THE FIRST COUNTRY IN LATIN AMERICA TO GAIN INDEPENDENCE,

SECOND ONLY TO THE UNITED STATES AND AMERICA AS A WHOLE. AND THE

FIRST BLACK NATION. HAITI BOLDLY ENTERS INTO HUMAN HISTORY BY DOING THE

UNTHINKABLE. HAITI BEAT THREE WORLD POWERS: FRANCE, BRITAIN AND

SPAIN. AND IF YOU LOOK INTO HISTORY, THE REASON WHY BRITAIN EVENTUALLY

ENDED THE TRANSATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE WAS BECAUSE OF THE HAITIAN

REVOLUTION. THE UNITED STATES IS WHAT IT IS TODAY BECAUSE OF HAITI.

FRANCE SOLD THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE FOR A MERE $14 MILLION BECAUSE IT

LOST "LA PERLE DES ANTILLES", THE PEARL OF THE CARIBBEAN. ALTHOUGH

HAITI'S HISTORY IS MARKED BY INTERNATIONAL DISREGARD BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT

WAS THE FIRST BLACK NATION IN THE AMERICAS. SO OF COURSE YOU KNOW THE

EUROPEAN POWERS WOULDN'T STAND UP AND SUPPORT THAT, BUT IT'S HISTORY.

HER HISTORY IS ONE THAT MERITS CELEBRATION. YOU CANNOT DENY THE RICH

HISTORY OF HAITI. AND THAT CONTINUES TO PERMEATE ALL CORNERS OF THE

UNITED STATES, AND MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, THE LEGISLATIVE HALLS OF NEW

YORK STATE WHERE SIX MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY ARE HAITIAN DESCENT.

THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION IS AN EXAMPLE THAT THE STRUGGLE IS REAL AND

CONTINUES TO BE REAL TODAY. WE SHOULD SUPPORT HAITI AS IT STRUGGLES TO

REST ITSELF FROM COLONIAL VESTIGES AS HAITIAN FREEDOM STOOD AND FOUGHT

FOR FREEDOM DURING THE -- EVEN THE UNITED STATES CIVIL WAR.

I THANK YOU ALL FOR LISTENING, AND THANK YOU FOR

SUPPORTING AND ADVANCING THIS RESOLUTION. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MS. SEPTIMO.

MS. SEPTIMO, YOU'LL HAVE TO UNMUTE YOURSELF. THERE

YOU GO.

MS. SEPTIMO: HERE WE GO. THANK YOU. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER. CONGRATULATIONS TO THE HAITIAN COMMUNITY OF NEW

YORK AND OF THE WORLD ON CELEBRATING THEIR INDEPENDENCE. THANK YOU

ALL FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR SOCIETY AND TO OUR HISTORY. THE STORY

OF YOUR INDEPENDENCE IS ONE THAT RINGS ACROSS THE WORLD, AS IT IS THE

MOMENT WHEN BLACK PEOPLE RIGHTFULLY CLAIMED THE SELF-DETERMINATION

THAT HAD BEEN STRIPPED FROM THEM FOR SO LONG. AS A BLACK WOMAN, I

AM GRATEFUL FOR THIS HISTORY AND FOR ITS IMPACT IN OUR WORLD AND IN MY

LIFE. AND AS A DOMINICAN WOMAN, I AM PROUD TO KNOW THAT NEXT-DOOR

TO THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC IS A NATION WHOSE HISTORY AND PEOPLE ARE

ROOTED IN RESILIENCE AND PRIDE. CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS CELEBRATION OF

YOUR INDEPENDENCE DAY, OF YOUR RICH CULTURE, OF YOUR ENUMERABLE

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND OF THE GIFTS YOU'VE -- YOUR FIGHT HAS GIVEN TO OUR

WORLD.

I LOOK FORWARD TO GROWING THE RELATIONSHIP AND

UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE HAITIAN COMMUNITY AND THE DOMINICAN

COMMUNITY, BOTH ABROAD AND HERE IN NEW YORK, AND STAND IN SUPPORT

OF THIS RESOLUTION TO COMMEMORATE THIS VERY SPECIAL DAY.

CONGRATULATIONS ONCE AGAIN. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU SO VERY

MUCH.

MS. JEAN-PIERRE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MS. JEAN-PIERRE: GOOD AFTERNOON AND THANK YOU,

MR. SPEAKER. TODAY'S RESOLUTION COMMEMORATES 11 YEARS PASSING

SINCE THE DEVASTATING EARTHQUAKE IN HAITI WHICH KILLED MORE THAN

220,000 PEOPLE, INCLUDING 22 AMERICANS, AND LEFT OVER ONE MILLION

PEOPLE WITHOUT HOMES. AS THE DAUGHTER OF HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS, THIS

RESOLUTION IS ESPECIALLY PERSONAL FOR ME, AND I'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND HOW

LIFE-ALTERING THE DESTRUCTION CAUSED BY THE EARTH -- EARTHQUAKE HAS

BEEN. IN 2021, HAITI CONTINUES TO REBUILD AND RECOVER, BUT MILLIONS

STILL LACK THE BASIC NECESSITIES LIKE SHELTER AND WATER. IT IS ALMOST

NOTEWORTHY THAT WE ARE TAKING UP THIS RESOLUTION ON THE SAME DAY WE

INAUGURATE A NEW PRESIDENT AND ADMINISTRATION THAT PROMISES TO BE FAR

MORE CARING AND EMPATHETIC TO OUR HAITIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS THAN

THE PRECEDING ADMINISTRATION. LITERALLY JUST HOURS AGO, IN THE FINAL

HOURS OF TRUMP'S PRESIDENCY, IMMIGRATION OFFICIALS DETAINED A

NINE-YEAR-OLD HAITIAN BOY WITH A VALID U.S. VISA, SEPARATED FROM HIM

AND HIS ELDER BROTHER, AND INCARCERATED THE BOY. JUST THE LATEST AND

HOPEFULLY LAST INSTANCE REPRESENTING THE ABSOLUTE WORST OF AN INHUMANE

FAMILY SEPARATION CARRIED OUT OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

SO AS WE PAUSE TO REMEMBER AND HONOR ALL THOSE

WHOSE LIVES WERE LOST ON THIS TRAGIC (INAUDIBLE), TODAY (INAUDIBLE) TEAM

OF LEADERS TO DO ALL WE CAN DO TO PROTECT AND LOOK OUT FOR ALL HAITIAN

GROUPS AND NEIGHBORS. AMERICA HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BEACON OF HOPE FOR

A GENERATION OF IMMIGRANTS AND REFUGEES, INCLUDING THOSE FROM HAITI.

AND AS A PROUD HAITIAN-AMERICAN I'LL CONTINUE STANDING UP FOR THOSE

WHO HAVE BEEN -- WHO HAVE -- WHO HAVE MADE NEW YORK AND THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

UNITED STATES THEIR HOME. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU SO VERY

MUCH.

MR. VANEL.

YOU HAVE TO UNMUTE YOURSELF, MR. VANEL.

MR. VANEL: MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING

ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THIS MOMENTOUS DAY FOR US TO

RECOGNIZE HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE DAY. MR. SPEAKER, TODAY SHOWED --

MARKS AN EXAMPLE OF THE CONNECTING HISTORY WITH MODERN DAY.

HAITIANS ACROSS THE WORLD, HAITIANS IN NEW YORK, HAITIANS IN THIS

COUNTRY HAVE CONTRIBUTED MUCH TO NEW YORK STATE, MUCH TO THIS

COUNTRY AND MUCH TO THE WORLD. AS MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES

MENTIONED, THE -- THE LONG HISTORY OF THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION AND ITS

CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE WORLD. BUT TODAY I'M GOING TO SPEAK ABOUT THE

CONTRIBUTION THAT HAITIAN- AMERICANS HAVE TODAY IN NEW YORK AND

TODAY IN AMERICA. AS ONE OF MY MEMBERS STATED, THERE ARE SIX

HAITIAN-AMERICANS THAT SERVE ON THIS VERY BODY WITH HONOR AND

DISTINCTION. ALSO, THERE ARE MANY OF MY MEMBERS HERE THAT ARE -- THAT

ARE NEIGHBORS OF -- OF -- OF -- HAITIANS AND REPRESENT HAITIANS. WE

WORK IN NEW YORK, WE PAY TAXES IN NEW YORK. WE ARE LEADERS OF

INDUSTRY. WE ARE THE -- THE ESSENTIAL WORKERS. WE HELP IN EVERY ASPECT

OF -- OF NEW YORK STATE AND IN THE COUNTRY, AND ON THIS DAY WE'RE

RECOGNIZING THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF HAITIANS FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE AND ALL

CORNERS OF THE EARTH AND ALL CORNERS OF THE STATE.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 18, MS.

LUPARDO.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM JANUARY, 2021 AS RADON AWARENESS

MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, HAVING

ADVANCED CALENDAR A, COULD WE TAKE UP THAT RULES REPORT DIRECTLY?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE HAVE ADVANCED IT.

THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01916, RULES REPORT

NO. 8, ZEBROWSKI, RODRIGUEZ. CONCURRENT RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE

AND ASSEMBLY PROPOSING AN AMENDMENT TO SECTIONS 2, 4, 5, 5-A AND

5-B OF ARTICLE III OF THE CONSTITUTION, IN RELATION TO THE NUMBER OF STATE

SENATORS AND INCLUSION OF INCARCERATED PERSONS IN THE FEDERAL CENSUS

FOR POPULATION DETERMINATION FOR REDISTRICTING PURPOSES AND TO THE

FUNCTIONING OF THE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION IN THE

DETERMINATION OF DISTRICT LINES FOR CONGRESSIONAL AND STATE LEGISLATIVE

OFFICES; AND TO REPEAL SECTION 3 OF ARTICLE III OF THE CONSTITUTION

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

RELATING THERETO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: FIRST, BEFORE THAT, ON

A MOTION BY MR. ZEBROWSKI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE

SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

MR. GOODELL, MR. ZEBROWSKI HAS ASKED FOR AN

EXPLANATION.

I DO BELIEVE MR. GOODELL ASKED FOR AN EXPLANATION, IS

THAT RIGHT? WELL THEN, MR. ZEBROWSKI, ARE YOU --

MR. ZEBROWSKI: (INAUDIBLE).

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: LET'S GET THE MIC

WORKING. THERE WE GO, SIR. I'M SORRY.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THAT'S OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON,

MR. SPEAKER, MAJORITY LEADER, FLOOR LEADER AND ALL MY COLLEAGUES.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL. THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT I SPONSOR

TODAY AND PUT FORTH BEFORE YOU IS UP FOR SECOND PASSAGE. WE HAD

DEBATED THIS BILL -- THIS AMENDMENT LAST YEAR, AND AS A REMINDER TO MY

COLLEAGUES AND TO OUR NEWER MEMBERS, THIS DOES A FEW THINGS. I'LL

SPEAK ABOUT THEM RATHER BROADLY AND THEN WE CAN GET INTO THE DEBATE.

SO, THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT FIXES TIME FRAMES DUE TO OUR NEW

POLITICAL CALENDAR. IT MAKES TECHNICAL CORRECTIONS THAT CONFORMS THE --

THAT CONFORMS THE PROCESS TO CONSTITUTIONAL AND OTHER STATUTORY

MANDATES, AND WE BELIEVE IT ESTABLISHES A WORKABLE AND ORDERLY

PROCESS WITHIN AN INDEPENDENT AND BIPARTISAN STRUCTURE FOR REDISTRICT --

FOR REDISTRICTING, WHICH IS SO IMPORTANT. IT ALSO ENSURES IN THESE

UNCERTAIN TIMES WITH THE FEDERAL CENSUS AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THAT NEW YORK RECEIVES AN ACCURATE COUNT AND APPORTIONS

REPRESENTATIVES IN A WAY THAT RESULTS IN EQUAL AND JUST REPRESENTATION

FOR ALL THE PEOPLE OF OUR GREAT STATE.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I'LL YIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, KEN. JUST A COUPLE

OF QUICK QUESTIONS. BUT I KNOW BEFORE -- JUST TO VERIFY, I'M SORRY I'M

NOT THERE WITH YOU -- I KNOW IN 2012 AND IN 2013 THE LEGISLATURE

OVERWHELMINGLY APPROVED THIS -- A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT IN A

BIPARTISAN FASHION TO CREATE THE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION

TO DRAW OUR LEGISLATIVE AND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT LINES. AND WE KNOW

IN 2014 THE VOTERS OF THIS STATE OVERWHELMINGLY APPROVED THAT MEASURE

TO AMEND THE CONSTITUTION TO CREATE THIS COMMISSION. GIVEN THAT, I

HAVE SEVERAL QUICK QUESTIONS TO ASK YOU BEFORE I SPEAK ON THE BILL. I

HAVE A LOT TO TALK ABOUT ON THE BILL, SO I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU A COUPLE

OF QUESTIONS, IF I COULD. FIRST OF ALL, REGARDING THE COMMISSION, KEN,

GIVEN THE CURRENT MAKEUP OF OUR HOUSE WITH THE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER

AND THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER BEING OF THE SAME PARTY, UNDER OUR

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

STATE'S CURRENT CONSTITUTION, WHICH WAS ALREADY APPROVED BY THE VOTERS

IN 2014, APPROVAL OF A PLAN BY THE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING

COMMISSION WOULD REQUIRE SEVEN VOTES OF THE COMMISSION WITH A

POSITIVE VOTE IN FAVOR COMING FROM AT LEAST ONE MEMBER FROM EACH OF

THE FOUR LEADERS' APPOINTEES OF EACH PARTY OF EACH HOUSE. BUT THE BILL

BEFORE US HERE TODAY NO LONGER REQUIRES ONE VOTE FROM EACH OF THE FOUR

LEADERS' APPOINTEES, JUST SEVEN MEMBERS IN TOTAL, REGARDLESS OF THE

PARTY OR THE APPOINTEE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. PALMESANO: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. NOW,

REGARDING THE LEGISLATURE'S VOTING THRESHOLD FOR APPROVAL OF A

COMMISSION PLAN, AGAIN, GIVEN THE CURRENT MAKEUP OF OUR HOUSE WITH

THE SPEAKER AND THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER BEING OF THE SAME PARTY,

UNDER OUR STATE'S CONSTITUTION, AGAIN, WHICH WAS APPROVED BY THE

VOTERS IN 2014, APPROVAL OF THE COMMISSION PLAN WOULD REQUIRE A VOTE

OF TWO-THIRDS OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE TO APPROVE THE COMMISSION'S

REDISTRICTING PLAN. HOWEVER, THE BILL BEFORE US WOULD NO LONGER

REQUIRE TWO-THIRDS OF THE MAJORITY VOTE OF THE LEGISLATURE TO APPROVE

THE PLAN, BUT INSTEAD REPLACE IT WITH A SIMPLE MAJORITY VOTE IN -- OF THE

HOUSE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THE ANSWER IS YES, MR.

PALMESANO. I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT I HEARD YOU

CORRECTLY, BECAUSE THEY ARE LONG QUESTIONS AND YOU'RE ASKING ME FOR A

ONE WORD ANSWER, SO I DON'T WANT TO SAY YES AND THEN FIGURE OUT THAT

SOMEWHERE IN THE LONG QUESTION THERE WAS A LINE I DISAGREED WITH. SO

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

LET ME -- LET ME JUST CLARIFY MY "YES." YOU STATED THAT IN THE PRIOR

AMENDMENT IT REQUIRED AN APPROVAL BY AN APPOINTEE OF EACH LEGISLATIVE

LEADER. THIS AMENDMENT CHANGES THAT. WE STILL MAINTAIN A 10-PERSON

BIPARTISAN PANEL WITH TWO ADDITIONAL MEMBERS, BUT THERE ARE TWO

MEMBERS APPOINTED BY EACH LEGISLATIVE LEADER SO THERE IS NO MORE

DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATION ON THE COMMISSION -- IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT

THAT; WE WOULD HOPE THIS WOULD BE INDEPENDENT -- BUT IF YOU WANT TO

GO BY WHO APPOINTS THESE FOLKS, THERE IS NO MORE

DEMOCRATIC-APPOINTED MEMBERS THAN THERE IS REPUBLICAN-APPOINTED

MEMBERS. AND IN ORDER TO GET A MAJORITY, NEITHER PARTY, NEITHER

DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE ENOUGH VOTES ON THAT PANEL TO

GET A MAJORITY. SO WE DO CHANGE THAT, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT

MY YES WAS A YES WITHIN THAT CONTEXT. AND TO YOUR SECOND QUESTION,

MR. PALMESANO, YES, UNDER THE OLD AMENDMENT IN CERTAIN

CIRCUMSTANCES THERE WAS A TWO-THIRDS REQUIRED VOTE OF THE LEGISLATURE.

IN THIS BILL, UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, SOME OF WHICH ARE SIMILAR BUT

NOT THE EXACT SAME, THE VOTING THRESHOLD OF MEMBERS TO APPROVE THE

PLAN WOULD BE 60 PERCENT. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY TO MAKE SURE THAT

I'M ANSWERING YOUR -- YOUR QUESTIONS ACCURATELY.

MR. PALMESANO: WELL, THANK YOU, KEN. I

APPRECIATE THAT. I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION, AND GIVEN THE TIME FRAME

THAT I HAVE WITH 15 MINUTES TO ASK THE QUESTIONS, I'M GOING TO ASK THE

QUESTION, BUT HOPEFULLY I HEAR IT IN YOUR CONTEXT OF THE DEBATE THAT'S

GOING TO BE GOING ON THIS AFTERNOON. BECAUSE I WANT TO GET ON THE BILL

AND I HAVE A LOT TO SAY. AND IF I FINISH UP IN TIME THEN I'LL ASK THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

QUESTION AGAIN. BUT AGAIN, MY QUESTION IS GOING TO BE TO -- TO YOU AND

TO THE SENATE AND THE ASSEMBLY DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS -- CAUCUS. WHY

DO YOU FEEL IT'S NECESSARY TO MAKE SUCH SIGNIFICANT VOTING CHANGES TO

THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS THAT CLEARLY LIMITS AND ATTEMPTS TO SILENCE THE

PARTICIPATION OF THE MINORITY IN THE PROCESS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME

ACTUALLY TELLING THE VOTERS THAT YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THEM WHO ALREADY

APPROVED, OVERWHELMINGLY APPROVED A REFERENDUM VOTE? WHAT WERE

THE COMPELLING REASONS TO MAKE SUCH SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO SILENCE THE

MINORITY PARTICIPATION AND DISREGARD TO ALL THE VOTERS?

SO WITH THAT I'M GOING TO GO ON THE BILL AND I LOOK

FORWARD TO HEARING YOUR COMMENTS THROUGHOUT THIS DEBATE WHICH I

EXPECT WILL BE LENGTHY.

SO ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.

PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: YES, MR. SPEAKER AND MY

COLLEAGUES. LAST YEAR, BEFORE OUR FIRST PASSAGE, I PARTICIPATED IN A

ZOOM HEARING WITH THE SO-CALLED GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS FOR INPUT

AND SUGGESTIONS TO CHANGE THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS TO MAKE IT BETTER,

FAIRER. AND I REMIND YOU AGAIN, A PROCESS THAT WAS ALREADY APPROVED

BY THE VOTERS IN 2014. MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. THIS SO-CALLED

HEARING WAS ALL PART OF A BIGGER PLAN AND EFFORT TO BRING FORWARD THIS

VERY BILL WE HAVE BEFORE US TODAY. THE BILL -- THE BILL WE HAVE BEFORE

US TODAY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKING THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS

BETTER, MORE FAIR, NONPARTISAN OR BIPARTISAN. IN FACT, IT CLEARLY MAKES IT

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

WORSE. THIS IS CLEARLY AN EFFORT, A DELIBERATE AND WILLFUL EFFORT BY THE

MAJORITIES OF BOTH HOUSES TO UNDO AND UNDERMINE WHAT THE VOTERS

WANTED AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHAT THE VOTERS ALREADY APPROVED WITH

THEIR VOTE. QUITE SIMPLY AND FRANKLY, THIS IS A BLATANT POLITICAL POWER

GRAB. IT'S A DELIBERATE ONE-SIDED PARTISAN AND POLITICAL HIT JOB TO SILENCE

THE MINORITY AND TO ENSURE ONE-PARTY RULE IN NEW YORK STATE.

ONE-PARTY RULE, WHICH I WOULD SAY HAS NOT REALLY WORKED TOO WELL FOR

THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS WITH SOME OF THE

DISASTROUS BILLS THAT HAVE PASSED THIS HOUSE, INCLUDING THE DISASTROUS

AND DANGEROUS BAIL AND DISCOVERY LAWS WHICH HAVE MADE OUR

COMMUNITIES AND NEIGHBORHOODS LESS SAFE. AND THE OBNOXIOUS AND

INSULTING TAXPAYER-FUNDED CAMPAIGN SYSTEM WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED

WHICH IS GOING TO COST THE TAXPAYERS OF THIS STATE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS

OF DOLLARS. OBVIOUSLY, BEING IN THE MAJORITY IS OBVIOUSLY NOT ENOUGH.

THE EFFORT -- THIS EFFORT IS CLEARLY ABOUT SILENCING THE MINORITY AND

PARTICIPATION IN THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS AND THEN IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING AS YOU TAKE UP THIS EFFORT TO TAKE FULL CONTROL

OF THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS, AND AGAIN, UNDERMINE THE WILL OF THE VOTERS

WHO, AGAIN, ALREADY APPROVED THIS MEASURE. HEARING THIS DISCUSSION

HERE, THE MAJORITY HERE AND IN THE OTHER CHAMBER WILL DO THEIR BEST TO

DRESS UP THIS BILL, PUT LIPSTICK ON IT TO MAKE IT LOOK PRETTY. LET'S BE VERY

CLEAR. THIS IS NOT PRETTY. IT'S UGLY. AND IN FACT, IT STINKS, TOO. THE

MAJORITIES ARE GOING TO TELL YOU THAT -- AND THE PUBLIC THAT THIS JUST

TAKES POLITICS OUT OF THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS. THAT IS CLEARLY NOT TRUE.

THE ONLY THING POLITICAL THAT THEY ARE TAKING OUT OF THE REDISTRICTING

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

PROCESS IS THE VOICE OF THE MINORITY IN APPROVING THE REDISTRICTING PLAN.

THAT AND THE VOICE OF THE MINORITY IN THE STATE GOVERNMENT PROCESS.

EVEN MORE SO, AT THE SAME TIME, SHUNNING AND INSULTING THE WILL OF THE

VOTERS OF OUR STATE, AGAIN, WHO IN 2014 SUPPORTED THIS PLAN AND

OVERWHELMINGLY APPROVED THE CURRENT PROCESS THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE

THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO AMEND TODAY. YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO SAY -- THEY'RE

GOING TO TRY TO SAY -- SELL THIS AS A FAIR AND INDEPENDENT PROCESS. BUT

LET'S BE CLEAR. THIS IS ANYTHING BUT. YOU KNOW IT, THE MEDIA KNOWS IT.

THE SO-CALLED GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS KNOW IT. AND SPEAKING OF THE

GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS, I'D LIKE TO COMMEND THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN

VOTERS AND CITIZENS UNION FOR COMING OUT AND CLEARLY OPPOSING THIS

BILL, AND RIGHTFULLY SO. BUT THERE ARE SOME GOOD SO-CALLED GOOD

GOVERNMENT GROUPS THAT HAVE NOT SPOKEN OUT IN OPPOSITION TO THIS BILL,

LIKE NYPIRG, COMMON CAUSE AND REINVENT ALBANY. LET ME BE VERY

CLEAR TO THESE GROUPS: IF YOU'RE NOT OUT THERE OPPOSING THIS LEGISLATION

AND WORKING TO DEFEAT IT AT THE BALLOT BOX, YOU HAVE LOST ALL CREDIBILITY

AND ARE ESSENTIALLY ENDORSING A PLAN AND A PROCESS THAT SILENCES

PARTICIPATION OF THE MINORITY AND AGAIN UNDERMINES WHAT THE PUBLIC

WANTED AND VOTED FOR IN THE REFERENDUM; A FAIR, BALANCED, INDEPENDENT,

NONPARTISAN OR BIPARTISAN REDISTRICTING PROCESS. SOMETHING YOU'VE ALL

PROUDLY CLAIMED TO ADVOCATE AND SUPPORT.

I THINK IT WOULD BE INTERESTING JUST TO READ A LITTLE BIT

ABOUT WHAT CITIZENS UNION AND THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS PUT OUT

IN THEIR STATEMENT, WHICH KIND OF SUMMARIZES IT. THIS PROPOSED

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT INCLUDES MAJOR CHANGES TO THE REDISTRICTING

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

POLICY. MOST NOTABLY, ATTEMPTING TO BRING BACK REDISTRICTING POWER TO

INCUMBENT LAWMAKERS AND SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCING THE ROLE OF THE

MINORITY PARTY. CHANGE IN REDISTRICTING MIDSTREAM IN A HIGHLY-RUSHED

TIMELINE WITH NO ROOM FOR PUBLIC INPUT WOULD BE DISRUPTIVE AND

POTENTIALLY DAMAGE PUBLIC CONFIDENCE IN THE PROCESS. SHIFTING

PROCEDURAL RULES AND CHANGE STANDARDS BASED ON ELECTION RESULTS SET A

DANGEROUS AND DESTRUCTIVE PRECEDENT. IT WOULD BE COUNTER TO THE GOAL

OF ENSURING THAT NO ONE POLITICAL PARTY CAN DOMINATE THE REDISTRICTING

PROCESS. WE URGE THE LEGISLATURE NOT TO PASS THIS RESOLUTION. THIS

SHOULD BE SIGNED BY ALL THE GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS, NOT JUST TWO.

AND QUITE FRANKLY, THE MEDIA AS WELL. THE EDITORIAL BOARDS. YOU

SHOULD BE OUT THERE EDUCATING THE PUBLIC TO DEFEAT THIS BLATANTLY

POLITICAL PROPOSAL AT THE BALLOT BOX IN NOVEMBER.

AND LET US TALK ABOUT THOSE WHO USED TO BE CONCERNED

ABOUT REDISTRICTING FAIRNESS AND THE ROLE OF THE MINORITY PARTY. I HAVE A

QUOTE HERE THAT WAS SPOKEN IN 2012, AND THE QUOTE READS THIS: I'D LIKE

TO SEE FAIRNESS IN THE PROCESS. WE HAVE A PROCESS THAT'S CONTROLLED BY

THE MAJORITIES, AND THEY WANT TO DAMAGE THE MINORITIES. THAT WAS IN

2012. WHO SAID THIS QUOTE? THE CHIEF SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION IN

THE SENATE. THE CHIEF SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION'S CLEARLY PARTISAN AND

DAMAGING BILL. HOW CAN YOU CLAIM TO WANT FAIRNESS IN THE PROCESS?

HOW CAN YOU CLAIM THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT THE PROCESS TO BE CONTROLLED

BY THE MAJORITIES, AND HOW CAN YOU CLAIM THAT THE -- TO SAY THAT THE

MAJORITIES WANT TO DAMAGE THE MINORITIES AND YOU'RE OPPOSED TO THAT,

BUT THEN BRING THIS DESTRUCTIVE, RIDICULOUS BILL FORWARD? HOW

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

HYPOCRITICAL AND DISINGENUOUS. BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS BILL

BEFORE US WE HAVE IS. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE ALL ADVOCATING FOR WITH

PASSAGE OF THIS BILL, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE ABOUT TO VOTE ON.

THIS BILL IS NOT ABOUT FAIRNESS IN THE PROCESS. THIS BILL IS ABOUT THE

MAJORITY CONTROLLING THE PROCESS OF REDISTRICTING. THIS BILL IS ABOUT

DAMAGING THE MINORITY PARTY. AND AGAIN, MORE IMPORTANTLY AND

PROBABLY MORE OFFENSIVE, IS IT UNDERMINES THE WILL OF THE VOTERS WHO

HAD ALREADY APPROVED THIS PASSAGE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

BACK IN 2014.

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING TO LOOK BACK ON WHEN WE

PASSED THIS LEGISLATION BACK IN 2012, SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WERE

MADE ON THE FLOOR BY SOME OF THE MEMBERS ON YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE.

I'M NOT GOING TO MENTION NAMES, BUT JUST A FEW STATEMENTS. I RISE

TONIGHT TO VERY ENTHUSIASTICALLY VOTE FOR THIS PROPOSAL BEFORE US. THIS

IS A TERRIFIC BILL. I'VE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THIS. I LOOK FORWARD TO

REDISTRICTING TEN YEARS FROM NOW. ANOTHER QUOTE: I THINK THIS BILL GOES

A LONG WAY. WE CAN FINALLY REFORM THIS PROCESS. WE CAN MAKE GOOD

ON THAT BY VOTING FOR THIS BILL AND I ENCOURAGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO

VOTE FOR THIS BILL. ANOTHER MEMBER SAID, WITH THIS VOTE TONIGHT IS

ABOUT ASKING THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK STATE IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO

CONTINUE THE POWER IN THE LEGISLATURE TO CREATE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS. IT

WENT ON TO SAY, I HAVE NO PROBLEM LETTING THE -- THE PEOPLE MAKE THE

DECISION ON THAT. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. AND ANOTHER COLLEAGUE

SAID, THIS PROPOSAL, THAT ONCE THE CONSTITUTION IS AMENDED, WILL BE

ABLE TO PUT IN PLACE AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AND RESULT IN FAIR

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

LINES BEING ADOPTED, THAT THE PUBLIC CAN VIEW AS BEING FAIR. WOW!

HOW HYPOCRITICAL THEN, HOW HYPOCRITICAL NOW.

MR. SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, IT IS MY SINCEREST

HOPE AND THOSE ON MY SIDE -- OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE AS WELL THAT THE

VOTERS OF THIS STATE DO NOT BUY THIS. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS CLEARLY

POLITICAL RIDICULOUS AND DISINGENUOUS BILL. I HOPE AND URGE THE MEDIA

AND THE EDITORIAL BOARDS -- BOARDS AND GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS TO DO

THE RIGHT THING AND HELP EDUCATE THE PUBLIC AND HELP DEFEAT THIS

AMENDMENT AT THE BALLOT BOX, AND CALL THIS OUT FOR WHAT IT TRULY IS: A

BLATANT POLITICAL HIT JOB. A BLATANT POLITICAL POWER GRAB. A BLATANT

POLITICAL EFFORT TO SILENCE THE MINORITY PARTY, FIRST IN THE REDISTRICTING

PROCESS, THEN IN STATE GOVERNMENT. A POLITICAL -- A POLITICAL -- A BLATANT

POLITICAL EFFORT TO UNDERMINE THE WILL OF VOTERS, AGAIN WHO ALREADY

APPROVED AND SUPPORTED OUR CURRENT PROCESS THROUGH THE CONSTITUTIONAL

AMENDMENT IN 2014. A GOOD PROCESS, AND CLEARLY A MUCH BETTER

PROCESS THAN THIS ONE. A FAIR, BALANCED, NONPARTISAN AND BIPARTISAN

INDEPENDENT PROCESS. THAT YES, A PROCESS THAT DOES INCLUDE AND PROTECT

THE ROLE AND VOICE OF THE MINORITY PARTY IN THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS IN

STATE GOVERNMENT.

DUMPING THIS BILL BEFORE US COMPLETELY AND CLEARLY

UNDERMINES AND ELIMINATES. FOR THAT REASON, I'M GOING TO BE VOTING

AGAINST THIS FAILED AND RIDICULOUS BILL AND I'M GOING TO URGE MY

COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. AND I THINK I HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, AND

KEN, IF YOU WANT, AGAIN, MY QUESTION IS TO WHY? WHY DOES THE

DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS IN THE SENATE AND THE ASSEMBLY FEEL IT'S NECESSARY

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

TO MAKE SUCH SIGNIFICANT VOTING CHANGES TO THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS

THAT CLEARLY LIMITS ATTEMPTS TO SILENCE THE PARTICIPATION OF THE MINORITY

IN THE PROCESS, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SAYING YOU BELIEVE YOU KNOW

BETTER THAN THE MILLIONS OF NEW YORKERS, THE PUBLIC, WHO ALREADY

OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORTED THIS PLAN WITH A REFERENDUM VOTE? WHAT

WAS SO COMPELLING TO MAKE THESE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES THAT SILENCE THE

MINORITY PARTICIPATION AND DISREGARDS THE WILL OF THE VOTERS BEFORE WE

GIVE IT A CHANCE -- CHANCE TO WORK?

THANK YOU, KEN. THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: MR. SPEAKER, WAS THAT A

QUESTION OR A POLITICALLY-CHARGED SPEECH? I'M NOT SURE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE ARE CONSIDERING IT

AS PART OF HIS COMMENT ON THE BILL.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: OH, OKAY. I -- I THOUGHT HE

ENDED WITH A QUESTION. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: ABSOLUTELY, I'LL YIELD, MR. RA.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI

YIELDS.

MR. RA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT'S GOOD TO SEE

YOU.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: GREAT TO SEE YOU AS WELL.

MR. RA: AND, YOU KNOW, IT FEELS LIKE WE JUST

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

DEBATED THIS LAST JULY, ONLY, I GUESS, ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO, SO...

MR. ZEBROWSKI: TIME HAS BEEN SUSPENDED.

MR. RA: YES. BUT I -- I DID HAVE JUST REALLY ONE

QUICK QUESTION. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS CHANGES IS THAT IN THE

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT WAS APPROVED BY THIS LEGISLATURE, TWO

SUCCESSIVE LEGISLATURES, AND BY THE VOTERS IS THAT IT CURRENTLY HAS A

PROCESS THAT DEPENDING ON THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP IN EITHER HOUSES

CHANGES THE VOTE THRESHOLD FOR THE PASSAGE OF MAPS IN EACH HOUSE,

CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. RA: AND WOULD YOU SAY THE REASON FOR DOING

THAT IS THAT YOU FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION

SHOULD NOT BE CONTINGENT ON WHO IS POLITICALLY IN CHARGE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES. WE'VE FOUND -- WE FIND

THAT WE COULD IMPROVE UPON THE INDEPENDENT PROCESS OF THE PRIOR

AMENDMENT BY TAKING OUT THE -- WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE POLITICAL

MECHANISMS OF AN OTHERWISE BIPARTISAN COMMISSION. THERE'S EQUAL

REPRESENTATION ON THE COMMISSION. IF THEY CAN COME TO A CONSENSUS,

WE SHOULDN'T ALLOW THE APPOINTEES OF A LEGISLATIVE -- A POLITICAL

LEGISLATIVE LEADER TO VETO THAT INDEPENDENT PLAN PUT FORTH BEFORE US.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO -- SO MY QUESTION THEN IS, WHY

GO WITH THE SIMPLE MAJORITY FOR THE VOTES IN THE LEGISLATURE AS OPPOSED

TO SAYING YOU NEED THE SUPERMAJORITY REGARDLESS OF WHO'S POLITICALLY IN

CHARGE IF WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, BIPARTISAN

SUPPORT FOR MAPS THAT PASS WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE?

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR

QUESTION, MR. RA, BECAUSE THE -- IN OUR AMENDMENT BEFORE THE HOUSE,

THERE REMAINS A 60 PERCENT VOTING REQUIREMENT IN CERTAIN

CIRCUMSTANCES BASED UPON THE VOTING, THE NUMBER OF VOTES BY THE

COMMISSION FOR A PLAN. SO I'M NOT SURE IF I UNDERSTAND, SO MAYBE YOU

COULD RESTATE YOUR QUESTION.

MR. RA: WELL, I'M SAYING WHY NOT MAKE THAT HIGHER

THRESHOLD THE THRESHOLD FOR ANY MAPS TO PASS, THUS GUARANTEEING THAT

WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE YOU WILL NEED VOTES FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE

POLITICAL AISLE TO PASS A SET OF MAPS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENED

WITHIN THE COMMISSION?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WHY NOT LEAVE THE 60 PERCENT

THRESHOLD NO MATTER WHAT?

MR. RA: YES.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, WE FELT THAT IF THEY -- IF

THIS INDEPENDENT COMMISSION WAS ABLE TO ACHIEVE SEVEN VOTES -- AND I

JUST WANT TO REMIND MY COLLEAGUES THAT THE APPOINTEES FROM THE

LEGISLATIVE LEADERS ARE TWO FROM THE SPEAKER, TWO FROM THE MINORITY

LEADER IN THE ASSEMBLY, TWO FROM THE MAJORITY LEADER IN THE SENATE,

TWO FROM THE MINORITY LEADER IN THE SENATE, AND THEN TWO MORE

ELECTED BY A MAJORITY. SO NEITHER PARTY'S REPRESENTATIVES COULD EQUAL A

MAJORITY OR HIT THAT SEVEN-VOTE THRESHOLD. SO WE FELT IF THIS

INDEPENDENT PANEL COULD GET SEVEN VOTES AND PUT THAT BEFORE THE

HOUSE, THEN THE BEST WAY OF RESPECTING THAT INDEPENDENT PANEL'S

RECOMMENDATIONS IS TO REQUIRE -- IS TO THEN HAVE 50 PERCENT. NOT HAVE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

LIKE AN ADDED THRESHOLD WHERE WHO KNOWS WHAT CAN -- WHAT CAN END

UP IN THAT DEBATE. SO THAT'S WHAT WE FELT WAS THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT

TO ACHIEVE THE INDEPENDENCE.

MR. RA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. RA: SO MY -- MY CONCERN IS OBVIOUSLY THE SAME

AS IT WAS A FEW MONTHS AGO WHEN WE DEBATED THIS, BUT PERHAPS EVEN

MORE SO WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE THEN. WE SAW

THIS COMMISSION THAT WAS CREATED BY THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

THAT WAS APPROVED BY OUR VOTERS AT LEAST ATTEMPT TO START TO DO THEIR

WORK, AND WHAT DID WE SEE? FIGHTS OVER ELECTING THE EXECUTIVE

DIRECTOR, AND IN PARTICULAR, NOT GETTING THE FUNDING THAT THIS LEGISLATURE

APPROVED IN BUDGETS. NOW SUPPOSEDLY, THAT WAS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,

WE'RE IN A REVENUE SHORTFALL SITUATION WITH COVID AND EVERYTHING. IF

YOU BELIEVE THAT, I HAVE A BRIDGE TO SELL YOU. I THINK IT'S VERY CLEAR

WHAT WAS GOING ON. THEY'RE TRYING TO BASICALLY STOP THAT COMMISSION,

SLOW DOWN THAT COMMISSION, BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO GO OUT TO THE

VOTERS THIS YEAR. IT'S GOING TO TAKE EFFECT NEXT JANUARY IF APPROVED, AND

IT'S GOING TO MOVE UP THAT TIME FRAME AND CHANGE THE PROCESS. SO NOW

YOU HAVE A COMMISSION GOING ON WITH ITS WORK THAT'S ALREADY MONTHS

BEHIND. WE -- WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE DELAYS IN THE DATA THAT WE NEED

BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, THE SITUATION WE'RE UNDER AND NOW THE RULES ARE

GOING TO BE CHANGED MIDSTREAM AS WELL.

SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

SPONSOR. I THINK HAVING THE HIGHER THRESHOLD, REGARDLESS OF WHO'S IN

CHARGE, IS THE BETTER WAY OF GOING ABOUT THIS. BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M

FORCED TO ALSO LOOK AT THIS THROUGH THE LENS OF WHERE WE ARE TODAY, AND

THE FACT IS THAT GIVEN THE CURRENT MAKEUP OF THE LEGISLATURE, THERE WILL

NOT NEED TO BE A SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTE IN EITHER HOUSE TO ULTIMATELY

APPROVE A SET OF MAPS. THAT SCENARIO EXISTS AS THIS -- AS THESE MAPS

COME OUT. YOU KNOW, THERE ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT MECHANISMS

DEPENDING ON WHAT COMES OUT OF THE COMMISSION, BUT I THINK WE CAN

PREDICT IF YOU END UP JUST WITH A, YOU KNOW, SPLIT PARTISAN MAPS THAT

THEY -- NOBODY GETS A MAJORITY OF NUMBER OF VOTES, NOBODY GETS THAT

SEVEN VOTES, WE CAN GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND ULTIMATELY THE

LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO DECIDE BY A MAJORITY IN EACH OF THE

HOUSES TO ADOPT WHATEVER MAPS THEY SEE FIT. AND I THINK IT'S

UNFORTUNATE THAT -- THAT WE'RE DOING THIS. ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE DOING IT

UNDER THESE MODIFIED RULES WITH LIMITED DEBATE. I QUESTION THE TIMING

OF WHY WE'RE DOING THIS TODAY WHEN -- I -- I MEAN, I'M EXTREMELY

DISAPPOINTED TO BEGIN WITH IN HOW THIS HAS BEEN APPROACHED BY

EDITORIAL BOARDS AND SOME OF THE GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS WHO -- WHO

HAVEN'T CRITICIZED IT FOR WHAT IT IS. BUT ON TOP OF IT, I MEAN, HOW DOES

THIS EVEN REGISTER TOMORROW TO ANYBODY WITH THE DAY WE'RE UNDER? WE

JUST HAD A NEW PRESIDENT SWORN IN JUST MINUTES AGO. HE FINISHED HIS

INAUGURATION ADDRESS AS WE WERE BEGINNING SESSION. SO THIS ISN'T

GOING TO REGISTER ANYWHERE IN THE NEWS. IT'S GOING TO GO COMPLETELY

UNDER THE RADAR. AND I JUST HOPE THAT THROUGHOUT THIS STATE, WHETHER

YOU'RE A MEMBER OF AN EDITORIAL BOARD OF A NEWSPAPER, YOU KNOW, A --

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

A PUNDIT THAT -- THAT DOES, YOU KNOW, WORK WITH TELEVISION, ON SOCIAL

MEDIA OR WHETHER YOU'RE A GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUP, IT'S NOT TOO LATE.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY. THIS IS GOING TO GO OUT TO THE

VOTERS, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THE RIGHT THING

AND CALL OUT THIS FOR WHAT IT IS. IT IS GOING TO MAKE IT EASIER TO

GERRYMANDER DISTRICTS IN NEW YORK STATE. AND AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS

BEEN THROUGH THIS PROCESS ONCE -- IT WAS MY FIRST TERM WHEN WE WENT

THROUGH THE PROCESS LAST TIME, AND THAT PARTISAN PROCESS IS REALLY JUST --

I MEAN, IT'S A HORRIFIC PROCESS. IT'S -- IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS IN A

VERY SECRETIVE MANNER. YOU KIND OF -- EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT SOME

PEOPLE ON -- ON THE MAJORITY SIDE HAVE SEEN THEIR MAPS ALREADY, AND

THEN YOU WAIT AND THEN A MAP COMES OUT. MY MAPS PERSONALLY, WHEN

THEY CAME OUT, ABOUT 88 PERCENT OF MY DISTRICT WAS NO LONGER IN THE

DISTRICT I LIVED IN WHEN -- WHEN THOSE MAPS CAME OUT BACK IN 2012.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE GOING FORWARD,

ULTIMATELY. BUT I THINK WE CAN DO BETTER. THIS PROCESS THAT THE VOTERS

APPROVED -- YOU KNOW, ONE THING I -- I AGREE WITH THAT -- THAT PEOPLE

HAVE SAID ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, IS IT PERFECT? NO. IT -- IT -- IT

COULD BE STRONGER. WHERE -- WHERE WE REALLY SHOULD BE IS THAT THE

LEGISLATURE AREN'T THE ONES MAKING THE FINAL DETERMINATION ON THE

MAPS. THAT'S INDEPENDENCE. THAT'S HOW YOU HAVE AN INDEPENDENT

COMMISSION -- NOT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, SEND SOMETHING TO THE

LEGISLATURE AND, YOU KNOW, WE CAN REJECT IT A COUPLE OF TIMES AND THEN

DO -- AND DO WHAT YOU WANT. SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE SHOULD BE

PUSHING FOR IN THE FUTURE. BUT THE VOTERS APPROVED THIS PROCESS. IT

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO GO FORWARD FOR THIS REDISTRICTING PROCESS, AND THEN

LET'S DO BETTER FOR THE NEXT TIME. LET'S MAKE A TRULY INDEPENDENT

PROCESS SO IT DOESN'T COME BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE, SO IT DOESN'T

BECOME POLITICAL AND IT DOESN'T END UP BASICALLY WHERE THE POLITICIANS

ARE CHOOSING THEIR VOTERS RATHER THAN THE VOTERS CHOOSING THEIR ELECTED

OFFICIALS.

SO I -- I HOPE MY COLLEAGUES WILL TAKE THAT TO HEART AS

YOU'RE -- YOU'RE VOTING ON THIS. I AM CERTAINLY GOING TO BE VOTING NO.

AND I CERTAINLY HOPE, AGAIN, EVERYBODY OUT THERE WHO HAS THAT

PLATFORM - THE GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS, EDITORIAL BOARDS, PUNDITS - LET

THE PUBLIC KNOW WHAT THIS REALLY IS AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE VOTING

FOR WHEN IT GETS PUT OUT THIS FALL OR AT SOME -- AT SOME OTHER TIME.

MAKE SURE THEY'RE AWARE THAT THE END RESULT IS GOING TO BE IT'S GOING TO

BE EASIER FOR MAPS TO PASS THROUGH THIS HOUSE AND THE SENATE WITHOUT

GETTING A SINGLE VOTE FROM THE MINORITY PARTIES.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NORRIS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WILL YOU YIELD, SIR?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, I'LL YIELD, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. ZEBROWSKI. MY FIRST

QUESTION IS IS, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS COMMISSION IS TRULY

INDEPENDENT AS THE TITLE SAYS IT IS?

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I BELIEVE THAT THIS COMMISSION

IS A VAST IMPROVEMENT TO WHAT WE HAVE SEEN FOR DECADES AND DECADES

IN NEW YORK STATE AND AROUND THE COUNTRY. I BELIEVE IT IS AN ATTEMPT

TO FIND A WORKABLE MODEL THAT HAS INDEPENDENCE FROM THE WAY THINGS

WERE DONE PREVIOUSLY.

MR. NORRIS: INDEPENDENCE MEANING THAT EIGHT OF

THE APPOINTEES ARE APPOINTED BY THE FOUR POLITICAL LEGISLATIVE LEADERS OF

THE TWO CHAMBERS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS,

AND I'M SURE MANY, MANY WAYS THAT WE COULD SET UP A COMMISSION TO

DRAW LINES. SO THIS IS ONE OF THEM. THERE IS AN INDEPENDENT

COMMISSION, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN THE WAY LINES WERE DRAWN IN EVERY

DECADE PREVIOUSLY. I WOULD JUST NOTE, MR. NORRIS, THAT IT'S INTERESTING --

I MEAN, I THINK I SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH YOUR QUESTIONING. SO IN

ONE HAND WE WANT LEGISLATIVE LEADERSHIP APPOINTEES TO HAVE A VETO OF A

(INAUDIBLE) PLAN, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT IF THERE

ARE APPOINTEES THEY MAY NOT BE INDEPENDENT ENOUGH. WE CAN'T HAVE IT

BOTH WAYS.

MR. NORRIS: NOW YOU'VE MADE SOME PROPOSED

AMENDMENTS TO THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT. IT'S IN THE

CONSTITUTION. WHY DON'T YOU MAKE AMENDMENTS THAT TAKES THE POLITICS

OUT OF IT, SUCH AS HAVING TEN APPOINTEES OF VARIOUS BACKGROUNDS WHO

ARE TRULY INDEPENDENT? SUCH AS SOMEONE WHO DOES STATS. SOMEONE

WHO IS A CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR. PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES WHO

CAN TRULY BE INDEPENDENT AND DRAW THE LINES FAIRLY AND IN A BIPARTISAN

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MANNER. WHY WOULDN'T YOU PUT THAT FORWARD AS A PROPOSAL FOR AN

AMENDMENT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, AS I SAID, MR. NORRIS, WE

COULD CERTAINLY DEBATE MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TO COME UP WITH A PANEL,

BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT THE MEMBERS OF THE PANEL NEED TO BE

APPOINTED SOME -- OR SELECTED SOMEHOW. SO ABSENT A MESSAGE FROM

THE ALMIGHTY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COME UP WITH SOME PROCESS FOR

THESE FOLKS TO BE SELECTED AND THIS IS ONE -- THIS IS THE ONE THAT WAS

SIMILARLY IN THE PRIOR AMENDMENT AND THE AMENDMENT BEFORE THE

HOUSE TODAY.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO MR. ZEBROWSKI, THIS IS NOT

AN INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION. WHAT THIS IS WAS A

POLITICAL COMPROMISE OF THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS BACK THEN TO PUT FORTH A

PROPOSAL TO THE VOTERS WHO APPROVED IT. BUT IT'S NOT INDEPENDENT. IT

REALLY IS JUST A BIPARTISAN COMMISSION TO TRY TO GET MORE FAIRNESS IN

TERMS OF REDISTRICTING, UNLIKE THE PREVIOUS TEN DECADES THAT WE'VE HAD

REDISTRICTING AND VAST GERRYMANDERING IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION,

MR. NORRIS. IF I WALK DOWN THE STEPS OF THE CAPITOL TODAY OUT ON TO

STATE STREET AND I RANDOMLY SELECTED TEN PEOPLE OUT ON STATE STREET IN

THE GREAT CITY OF ALBANY TO BE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION AND NINE

OF THEM HAPPENED TO BE DEMOCRATS AND ONE HAPPENED TO BE A

REPUBLICAN, WOULD THAT BE INDEPENDENT?

MR. NORRIS: WELL, I'LL ANSWER THE QUESTION. AT

LEAST THAT WAY THEY WOULD HAVE TEN INDIVIDUALS WHO DID NOT HAVE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

POLITICAL INSIDE BASEBALL TO ACTUALLY EVALUATE THE MAPS AND TO MAKE

SURE THAT WE HAVE FAIRNESS IN THIS PROCESS.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU PUT IT

THAT WAY, KNOWLEDGE OF POLITICAL INSIDE BASEBALL BECAUSE I WILL REFER TO

PRIOR ARGUMENTS BOTH IN THAT PAST DEBATE AND THIS DEBATE. IF YOU WOULD

CHARACTERIZE THESE FOLKS HAS HAVING POLITICAL INSIDE BASEBALL

KNOWLEDGE, THEN WE SHOULD CERTAINLY NOT GIVE ONE OF THEM THE ABILITY

TO VETO AN OTHERWISE PASSED MAJORITY PLAN BY A BIPARTISAN PANEL.

MR. NORRIS: WELL, IN TERMS OF THAT, HOW THE

SYSTEM IS SET UP RIGHT NOW, HOW WE HAVE THAT, AT LEAST THERE IS A VETO TO

MAKE SURE THAT ONE PARTY UNDER THIS BIPARTISAN COMMISSION THAT WAS

SET UP BY POLITICAL COMPROMISE DO NOT HAVE ROUGHSHOD OVER THE

COMPLETE PROCESS, AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, BUT, YOU KNOW, BY THAT

YOU'RE SAYING SO ONE -- ONE PERSON'S APPOINTEES COULD SAY, YOU KNOW

WHAT? I DON'T CARE THAT THIS PANEL HAS SEVEN VOTES OR EIGHT VOTES. IT

DOESN'T MAXIMIZE THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS IN MY HOUSE, SO THEREFORE,

I'M VETOING IT. THAT, TO ME, DOES NOT SOUND INDEPENDENT.

MR. NORRIS: THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS IS THIS IS NOT

AN INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION. THIS IS A BIPARTISAN

COMMISSION TO PROVIDE FAIRNESS TO THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW

YORK WHO HAVE VOTED ALREADY TO APPROVE THIS. AND NOW WHAT IS

HAPPENING IS THAT WE ARE TRYING, UNDER YOUR PROPOSAL, TO REDUCE THE

NUMBER ALREADY OF INDIVIDUALS FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO APPROVE IN TERMS

OF THE PERCENTAGES. AND THIS, IN MY OPINION, IS A CALCULATED MOVE TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

REMOVE THAT BIPARTISAN APPROACH THAT WAS AGREED UPON BY THE POLITICAL

LEADERSHIP BECAUSE IT IS NOT INDEPENDENT.

NOW, IF I COULD JUST ASK A FEW MORE QUESTIONS. IN

TERMS OF THE COMMISSION VOTES, IF THERE ARE SEVEN OR MORE - I JUST WANT

TO MAKE SURE I HAVE THIS CORRECT - THERE IS A SIMPLE MAJORITY NEEDED BY

THE LEGISLATURE TO APPROVE IT; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. NORRIS: AND IF THERE'S LESS THAN SEVEN, THEY

CAN'T AGREE, IT REQUIRES 60 PERCENT; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. NORRIS: AND IF THERE IS A SPEAKER AND

PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE OF THE SAME PARTY, UNDER THE CURRENT LAW IT

WOULD REQUIRE TWO-THIRDS OF THE LEGISLATURE TO APPROVE IT.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: UNDER THE CURRENT PLAN, YES.

MR. NORRIS: YES. HOW WOULD THAT CHANGE UNDER

YOUR PROPOSAL?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THIS AMENDMENT TAKES OUT THE

PARTISAN COMMISSION VOTING RULES THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. NOW, WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT?

YOU ALREADY HAVE TWO-THIRDS OF THE SENATE. YOU ALREADY HAVE

TWO-THIRDS IN THIS HOUSE. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE, AS THE CHIEF SPONSOR OF

THIS BILL, TO DO THAT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WE THINK WE CAN IMPROVE UPON

THE PRIOR AMENDMENT BY ELIMINATING THE PARTISAN COMMISSION VOTING

RULES. AND WHEN I SAY "PARTISAN COMMISSION VOTING RULES", SINCE FOLKS

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

HAVE BEEN CITING VARIOUS GOOD GOVERNMENT MEMOS, I TAKE THAT FROM THE

MEMO ISSUED BY COMMON CAUSE, NYPIRG AND REINVENT ALBANY.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. NOW, IF THE COMMISSION FAILS

TO BRING FORTH ANY PLAN, WHAT IS THE NUMBER OR THE PERCENTAGE OF THE

LEGISLATURE THAT HAS TO VOTE ON THAT IF THERE IS NOTHING PRESENTED BY THE

COMMISSION?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SO, NOTHING HAS BEEN PRESENTED

BY THE COMMISSION AT ALL, OR IT GOT SIX VOTES? I MEAN, THERE'S -- THERE'S

VARIOUS PROVISIONS IN THIS BILL. SO, IF YOU DON'T GET SEVEN VOTES YOU

GENERALLY NEED 60 PERCENT FOR APPROVAL OF THE LEGISLATURE. THERE'S

VARIOUS PROVISIONS -- YOU KNOW, IF MULTIPLE PLANS HAVE THE SAME

AMOUNT OF VOTES, BOTH OF THEM WILL BE SENT OVER TO THE LEGISLATURE. IF

THEY ABSOLUTELY REFUSE OR DON'T HAVE ANY TYPE OF PLAN, THEY WOULD SEND

THEIR WORK PRODUCT OVER TO THE LEGISLATURE. SO THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME

WORKABLE MODEL FOR, I GUESS, ALL THE POSSIBLE -- ALL THE POSSIBILITIES OUT

THERE. BUT IN GENERAL, IF YOU DON'T HAVE SEVEN VOTES FOR A PLAN, 60

VOTES IS A 60 PERCENT MAJORITY.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. WHAT IS THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF

THE AMENDMENT IF IT'S PASSED BY THE VOTERS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: JANUARY 1ST.

MR. NORRIS: AND WHEN ARE THE FIRST MAPS DUE BY

THE COMMISSION?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: IN 2022, JANUARY 1ST. ALTHOUGH

THE -- YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSION DOES -- THAT -- THAT'S THE DATE, I

SHOULD SAY, MR. NORRIS, THAT IT'S PRESENTED TO THE LEGISLATURE. BUT THERE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

IS A PROCESS FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS THAT GO ON AROUND THE STATE, SO

PRESUMABLY THERE WOULD BE DRAFTS THAT FOLKS COULD COMMENT ON AROUND

THE STATE PRIOR TO THAT JANUARY 1ST. BUT THE DATE FOR SUBMISSION TO THE

LEGISLATURE IS JANUARY 1ST.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. WILL THERE BE PUBLIC HEARINGS,

THEN, AFTER THAT PROPOSAL IF IT FAILS OR DOESN'T GET THE VOTES IN THE

LEGISLATURE IN TIME SO THE PUBLIC WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE

VOICED UPON AMENDMENTS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THE PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE BEFORE

THE SUBMISSION STARTS TO THE LEGISLATURE.

MR. NORRIS: WHAT ABOUT IF IT -- IF IT -- IF THE FIRST

ONE DOESN'T PASS AND THERE'S AMENDMENTS PUT FORTH? WOULD THE PUBLIC

HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO WEIGH IN ON THOSE MAPS EITHER BY A SECOND MAP

OF THE COMMISSION OR THE LEGISLATURE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES. THROUGH THE NORMAL

WEIGHING-IN PROCESS FOR ANY LEGISLATION OR -- OR ACT OF THE LEGISLATURE

OR THE GOVERNOR, THROUGH ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES, THROUGH -- THROUGH

PUBLIC SPEECH. SO IF -- IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL

IT WOULD BE CERTAINLY THROUGH THE ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES. BUT IF YOU'RE

TALKING ABOUT OVERALL MESSAGES TO THE COMMISSION SHOULD THEY HAVE TO

COME UP WITH A SECOND PLAN, I WOULD PRESUME THAT THOSE WOULD BE

DONE WITHIN THE CONSTRUCT OF THE FIRST PUBLIC HEARING SCHEDULE WHICH IS

SET UP WITHIN THE AMENDMENT TO ENSURE THAT IT'S DONE IN PLACES ALL

AROUND THIS STATE. BUT YOU KNOW, THEORETICALLY, THAT PUBLIC DISCUSSION

WOULD CONTINUE. BUT THE FORMALIZED HEARING PROCESS SO THAT WE CAN

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

HAVE A WORKABLE MODEL WHERE THE COMMISSION CAN BOTH HEAR FROM THE

PUBLIC AND DO ITS WORK IS BEFORE THEY'RE ACTUALLY SUBMITTED TO THE

LEGISLATURE.

MR. NORRIS: I HOPE THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CASE.

MR. ZEBROWSKI, THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

I WOULD LIKE TO GO ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. NORRIS: YES. THE REASON BEFORE I HAD A

DISCUSSION WITH MR. ZEBROWSKI ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS COMMISSION

IS TRULY INDEPENDENT IS BECAUSE IT'S NOT INDEPENDENT. IT WAS A POLITICAL

COMPROMISE THAT WAS SET UP BACK IN 2012 OR 2013 TO ADDRESS THE

GERRYMANDERING SITUATION IN NEW YORK. AND IN TERMS OF TRUE

INDEPENDENCE, IF WE WERE GOING TO DO THIS PROPERLY, WE WOULD MAKE

SURE THAT IT WAS OUTSIDE THE REALM OF THE LEGISLATURE IF IT WAS TRULY

INDEPENDENT. AND HAVE PROFESSIONALS, PEOPLE WHO DEAL WITH STATISTICS,

PEOPLE WHO DEAL WITH CONSTITUTIONAL LAW AND ALL OF THIS. BUT IT'S NOT.

THIS IS A POLITICAL COMPROMISE FROM WAY BACK WHEN. THE VOTERS HAD

AN OPPORTUNITY TO WEIGH IN ON THAT. THEY APPROVED IT, I BELIEVE, BY 58

PERCENT OR SO ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK. NOW BECAUSE IT'S NOT

CONVENIENT HOW THE CURRENT RULES ARE FOR THE MAJORITIES, PARTICULARLY

BACK IN JULY WHEN THERE WAS AN UNKNOWN AT THE TIME WHETHER OR NOT

THE SENATE WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A TWO-THIRDS OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OR

NOT, THEY BROUGHT THE FIRST PROPOSAL FORWARD. TODAY THEY'RE DOING IT

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

AGAIN. BUT THIS IS ABOUT POLITICS. THIS IS NOT ABOUT INDEPENDENCE.

AND WE JUST SHOULD BE HONEST WITH THE VOTERS ABOUT THIS. THAT'S MY

MESSAGE TO THE VOTERS. THIS COMMISSION HAS NOT EVEN HAD THE

OPPORTUNITY YET TO DO ITS WORK. TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THE PASSAGE

WHICH THEY PUT THROUGH, THE VOTERS, EVEN HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET IT

DONE. AND I SEE MY TIME IS CONCLUDING. WHAT I WANT TO SAY, TOO, IS

THAT BALANCE IS IMPORTANT IN GOVERNMENT. WHETHER IT BE IN

WASHINGTON, WHETHER IT BE IN ALBANY, WHETHER IT BE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL,

THAT PEOPLE ARE ALL REPRESENTATIVE. THERE ARE 43 REPUBLICANS IN THIS

CHAMBER. WE REPRESENT 5.5 MILLION NEW YORKERS OUT OF 19-. THIS

PROPOSAL WILL ENSURE THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NO VOICE WHATSOEVER

ON THIS. THAT UPSTATE WILL REALLY HAVE NO VOICE ON THIS REDISTRICTING

PLAN. AND THAT'S A SHAME. THAT IS REALLY A SHAME. AND THE BUFFALO

NEWS IN 2013 IN AN EDITORIAL SAID THE FOLLOWING ON THE FIRST PROPOSAL. I

QUOTE FROM FEBRUARY 11, 2013. THIS IS A CON JOB. IT IS DESIGNED NOT

ONLY TO RETAIN POLITICAL REDISTRICTING, BUT TO ENSHRINE THAT INSULT TO

DEMOCRACY IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION AND TO DO IT UNDER THE GUISE OF

REFORM. THAT WAS BEFORE THESE CHANGES WERE EVEN CONSIDERED. AND I

TELL YOU, IF THEY CALL IT A CON JOB, THIS IS A SHAM. AND I HOPE ALL THE

EDITORIAL BOARDS, I HOPE ALL THE BLOGGERS AND I HOPE EVERYONE AROUND

THE STATE RECOGNIZES THAT THIS IS A POWER GRAB. THIS IS NOT FAIR. THIS

DOES NOT PROVIDE BALANCE TO OUR STATE, WHICH IS GREATLY NEEDED. AND I

JUST HOPE - AND I KNOW IT'S GOING TO PASS TODAY, IT'S ALREADY IN FRONT OF

US - I JUST HOPE THAT THE VOTERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK OVER THE NEXT

SEVERAL MONTHS REALIZE EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS, AND THAT THEY REJECT THIS AT

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THE POLLS IN NOVEMBER.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK YOU,

MR. ZEBROWSKI, FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. SCHMITT.

MR. SCHMITT: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SURE, I'LL YIELD, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. SCHMITT: THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR.

ZEBROWSKI. I JUST HAVE A FEW QUICK QUESTIONS FOR YOU. ONE, I KNOW IN

OUR PREVIOUS CONVERSATION ON THIS OVER THE SUMMER, WE WERE

DISCUSSING WHAT HAS BEEN ALLOCATED AND WHAT HAS NOT BEEN ALLOCATED

BUDGET-WISE. AND I KNOW SOME OF THE PUBLIC CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN

RAISED IS THAT THE $1 MILLION THAT'S PREVIOUSLY BEEN APPROVED IN THE

MOST RECENT BUDGET STILL HASN'T BEEN DISTRIBUTED. IS THAT -- IS THAT AN

ACCURATE ASSESSMENT FROM YOUR KNOWLEDGE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, MR. SCHMITT. I -- I STILL DO

NOT BELIEVE THAT THE MONEY HAS BEEN ALLOCATED TO THE COMMISSION, AND

I WOULD HOPE THAT IT IS DONE SO (INAUDIBLE).

MR. SCHMITT: NOW, MY SECOND CONCERN IS I KNOW

WE GOT THE BUDGET BILLS QUITE LATE YESTERDAY, ALMOST MIDNIGHT, BUT I'M

SEEING THAT IN THE -- THE NEW PROPOSED BUDGET FROM THE EXECUTIVE THERE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

IS NOT A SINGLE MENTION OF THE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.

DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE CASE IS, AND IS

THAT POSSIBLY IMPACTED BY THIS PENDING BILL BEFORE US TODAY?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I HAVE NOT HAD AN OPPORTUNITY,

MR. SCHMITT, TO GO THROUGH EVERY LINE OF THE GOVERNOR'S EXECUTIVE

BUDGET YET TO KNOW HOW -- WHAT, IF ANY, CHANGES OR HOW IT

APPROPRIATES THE FUNDS. I THINK I CAN SAY THAT THE -- THE INITIAL FUNDING

THAT WAS APPROPRIATED FOR THIS COMMISSION, WE STILL BELIEVE THAT IT WILL

EVENTUALLY BE FULLY APPROPRIATED AND FULLY SENT TO THE COMMISSION SO

THAT IT'S FUNDED.

MR. SCHMITT: NOW THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WHY WE HAVE

A SIGNIFICANT TIME DELAY NOW FOR THE COMMISSION TO BE ABLE TO DO ITS

WORK. AND IF I'M CORRECT FROM RECALLING OUR CONVERSATION FROM THE LAST

TIME WE DISCUSSED THIS BILL, THE GOAL OF THIS LEGISLATION IS NOT TO PREVENT

OR DELAY THE COMMISSION FROM WORKING, BECAUSE THE RULES WOULD NOT

TAKE EFFECT UNTIL JANUARY 1 OF 2022, CORRECT? SO YOU STILL ENVISION THE

COMMISSION PERFORMING ITS DUTIES AS IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE IN REAL TIME?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: RIGHT. I -- I THINK THAT BOTH

UNDER THE PRIOR AMENDMENT AND THIS AMENDMENT, THE COMMISSION WILL

HAVE TO START ITS WORK AND WE WOULD PREFER THAT IT START ITS WORK AS SOON

AS POSSIBLE SO THAT WE CAN GET AN ACCURATE COUNT AND A FAIR

REDISTRICTING. I WILL SAY THAT AT THIS POINT I STILL BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF THE

DATA IS OUT, SO I -- I -- I THINK THAT THERE'S STILL ENOUGH TIME FOR THIS

MONEY TO BE APPROPRIATED SO THAT THE COMMISSION ISN'T HINDERED IN ANY

WAY. BUT I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, MR. SCHMITT, THAT -- LET'S GET THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MONEY FULLY APPROPRIATED AND GET THE WORK UNDERWAY.

MR. SCHMITT: NOW THAT'S A GOOD SEGUE TO THE NEXT

QUESTION I HAD REGARDING, OBVIOUSLY, THE CENSUS DATA INFORMATION, AND

IT'S PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE THAT THERE'S BEEN DELAY IN THE RELEASE OF, YOU

KNOW, THIS CRITICAL CENSUS DATA. AND THERE'S BEEN SOME CHANGES WITH,

OBVIOUSLY, THE FEDERAL ADMINISTRATION AND HOW WE MIGHT BE

PROCEEDING WITH THAT. I GO BACK TO OUR DEBATE FROM THE SUMMER WHERE

WE DISCUSSED LANGUAGE IN THE BILL. I -- I THINK THAT YOU SAID

SPECIFICALLY, LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL ADDS THE ABILITY FOR NEW YORK TO

UTILIZE OTHER DATA IF FEDERAL CENSUS DATA FAILED TO SHOW THE TOTAL

NUMBER OF INHABITANTS. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'D JUST EXPAND ON WHAT

IS THE SPECIFIC OTHER DATA THAT COULD BE UTILIZED, AND HOW WOULD THAT

KIND OF EITHER BE DISCOVERED OR COME TO BE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I THINK THE BILL ENVISIONS A

PROCESS WHERE IF THE DATA IS NOT FORTHCOMING, NEW YORK WOULD BOTH

SET UP A PROCESS TO DO ITS OWN COUNT, ITS OWN DATA ANALYSIS TO MAKE

SURE THAT WE HAVE A FAIR AND ACCURATE NUMBER OF -- OF NEW YORKERS. I

THINK WE ALL HOPE THAT THE CENSUS, WE WILL GET THAT DATA. CERTAINLY, WE

FEAR THAT IT COULD BE DELAYED AND -- AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY IT'S

IMPORTANT FOR NEW YORK TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY. AND I DO BELIEVE

THAT SOME OF THAT OPPORTUNITY WAS ALREADY CONTAINED WITHIN THE --

WITHIN THE CONSTITUTION. HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THE YEAR WE'RE IN,

GIVEN THE PANDEMIC, GIVEN SOME OF THE DELAYS WE HEARD, WE CERTAINLY

WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT NEW YORK HAS EVERY TOOL AT ITS DISPOSAL.

MR. SCHMITT: SO ARE THERE ANY GUIDELINES AT ALL

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED SHOULD THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF THE LEGISLATION

HAPPEN TO BE INVOKED? SO DOES IT HAVE TO BE A STATE-RUN CENSUS

BASICALLY MIRRORING HOW THE FEDERAL WOULD DO IT? IS IT SOMETHING THAT

COMMERCIAL DATA COULD BE PURCHASED BY THE STATE AND THERE COULD BE

SOME TYPE OF MATHEMATICAL EQUATION THAT IS UTILIZED, I GUESS, OR IS

ANYTHING POSSIBLE AND THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE COMMISSION AND/OR THE

LEGISLATURE? WHAT, IF ANY, ARE THOSE GUIDELINES?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I WOULD POINT YOU TO SECTION 4,

THE FIRST PAGE - IT'S NOT EVEN CHANGED LANGUAGE - WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT

THE LEGISLATURE, BY LAW, SHALL PROVIDE FOR THE MAKING AND TABULATION BY

STATE AUTHORITIES IN THE ENUMERATION OF INHABITANTS OF THE ENTIRE STATE

TO BE USED FOR SUCH PURPOSES. SO THAT'S GENERALLY WHERE IT STARTS. AND

LIKE I SAID EARLIER, I THINK THERE'S LANGUAGE ALREADY IN THE CONSTITUTION,

AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT NEW YORK HAS EVERY OPPORTUNITY IF,

GOD FORBID, WE DON'T GET ANY COUNT THAT WE CAN FAIRLY AND ACCURATELY

DEPICT HOW MANY NEW YORKERS ARE OUT THERE IN ALL OF OUR DISTRICTS.

MR. SCHMITT: NOW, OBVIOUSLY WE WANT THIS TO BE

DONE IN A TIMELY FASHION - I THINK WE'RE BOTH IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT -

AND IN A FAIR PROCESS. WITH THE REDISTRICTING YEAR, WITH THE CHANGED

TIME FOR PETITIONING AND FOR BALLOT ACCESS FOR CANDIDATES FOR OFFICE IN

THE YEAR OF 2022, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY CONCERN -- THIS CHANGES IT TO

JANUARY 1ST. THERE'S A DELAY IN, YOU KNOW, ANY TYPE OF ACTIONS BEING

TAKEN IN AND OUT BECAUSE FUNDS AREN'T BEING DISBURSED AND/OR WE DON'T

HAVE THE PROPER CENSUS DATA. IS THERE ANY CONCERN ON YOUR PART THAT

WE COULD FACE A SITUATION WHERE WE NEED TO MODIFY THE ELECTION

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

CALENDAR FOR THE REDISTRICTING YEAR, OR DO YOU NOT SEE THAT BEING A

CONCERN AT ALL?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YOU'RE ASKING ME MY OPINION,

MR. SCHMITT, AND AT THIS POINT, NO, I -- I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE -- THAT THE

GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, THE DIVISION OF BUDGET, TWO HOUSES OF THE

LEGISLATURE WILL NOT FIND A WAY TO ENSURE THAT MONIES ARE APPROPRIATED

SO THAT WE CAN GET A FAIR AND ACCURATE COUNT. I GUESS I'M -- I'M

OPTIMISTIC.

MR. SCHMITT: SO THE -- THE DATE CHANGES AND THE

PROCESS CHANGES WHICH WOULD, SHOULD THIS PASS HERE TODAY, PASS A

REFERENDUM VOTE, WILL NOT IN ANY WAY IMPEDE THE NORMAL ELECTION TIME

FRAME FOR THE YEAR 2022?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SO. AND --

AND I WOULD JUST ADD THAT WE BELIEVE AND I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS ALL THE

MORE REASON WHY THIS AMENDMENT IS NECESSARY, BECAUSE WE MOVE UP

THE PROCESS SO THAT IT IS WORKABLE WITHIN THE POLITICAL CALENDAR.

MR. SCHMITT: THE -- DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER

MECHANISMS IN PLACE OR DO YOU -- OR DOES THE CHANGE PRESENT ANY OTHER

MECHANISMS THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW -- AGAIN, I THINK THAT THE MESSAGE

THAT WE'RE SENDING HERE BY CHANGING THE RULES MIDSTREAM, I THINK THAT'S

THE CONTENTION THAT I HAVE, THAT THIS GROUP IS SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING

NOW. SO IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD POINT TO THAT SHOWS THAT THE

WORK WILL BE ACCEPTED BY THE CURRENT WORKING GROUP? WE CHANGE THE

RULES. WILL THE EXECUTIVE -- LET'S GO TO THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS, FOR

EXAMPLE. WILL THEY HAVE TO CHANGE MIDSTREAM OR TOWARDS THE END OF

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THIS PROCESS BECAUSE NOW THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THEY ARE

NOW?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: NO. I KNOW WE'RE IN CRAZY

TIMES, BUT I THINK THAT WE CAN STILL COUNT ON IF WE SET UP A PANEL EITHER

STATUTORILY OR BY AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION LIKE WE DO IN OTHER

AREAS OF -- OF STATE GOVERNMENT, THAT THEY WILL FOLLOW THE -- THE DICTATES

OF THE LAW OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AND GET THEIR WORK DONE

AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO. I -- I DON'T SEE WHY WE WOULD HAVE ANY

MASSIVE FEARS THAT SUDDENLY THIS, YOU KNOW, PANEL IS NOT GOING TO DO ITS

WORK AS PRESCRIBED BY STATE LAW AND THE STATE CONSTITUTION.

MR. SCHMITT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MR.

ZEBROWSKI.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. SCHMITT: MR. SPEAKER, I'M GOING TO BE

OPPOSED, ONCE AGAIN, TO THIS LEGISLATION. YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE THAT WE

NEED TO LOOK AT THE NEARLY 60 PERCENT OF NEW YORKERS WHO CAME OUT TO

VOTE IN THE 2014 REFERENDUM. OVER 1.7 MILLION NEW YORKERS APPROVED

THE CURRENT LANGUAGE THAT WE HAD. AND I FEEL THAT THIS CHANGE NOW,

REALLY IN THE 11TH HOUR, IS AN AFFRONT TO THOSE OVER 1.7 MILLION NEW

YORKERS WHO CHOSE, FROM ALL PARTIES, FROM ALL BACKGROUNDS, FROM --

FROM ALL AREAS OF THE STATE, TO OVERWHELMINGLY APPROVE THE SYSTEM WE

HAVE IN PLACE NOW THAT PROTECTS THE INTERESTS OF BOTH THE MAJORITY PARTY

AND THE MINORITY PARTY, WHATEVER THAT PARTY MAY BE FROM NOW AND

GOING FORWARD IN THE FUTURE. WE'RE DEALING CURRENTLY WITH AN ONGOING

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

PROBLEM WHERE FUNDS THAT HAVE BEEN BUDGETED FOR THE COMMISSION TO

OPERATE HAVE STILL YET TO BE DISBURSED. THERE'S BEEN ONGOING CONCERN,

PUBLIC CONCERN INCLUDING AT THE MOST RECENT MEETING OF THE

REDISTRICTING COMMISSION TO THIS VERY ISSUE. THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO START

THE WORK THAT THEY NEED TO DO BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF FUNDS. IT SEEMS TO

BE SOME TYPE OF DELAY, WHATEVER THE REASON MIGHT BE - I DON'T WANT TO

GET INTO ACCUSATIONS - BUT THERE'S A DELAY AND IT'S AN UNACCEPTABLE

DELAY. WE ALSO HAVE THE EXECUTIVE'S BUDGET PROPOSAL WHICH FROM THE

INITIAL RELEASE FROM LATE LAST NIGHT, WE DO NOT SEE A SINGLE MENTION. WE

SEE OTHER ELECTIONS CHANGES, OTHER FUNDING INCLUDING FOR BOARD OF

ELECTIONS POSITIONS, BUT WE DON'T SEE A SINGLE MENTION OF ANY FUNDING

ABOUT THE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION, WHICH IS A

CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT. SO THIS IS REALLY AN AFFRONT TO 1.7 MILLION

NEW YORKERS WHO APPROVED THE CURRENT PROCESS. THE CURRENT PROCESS

IS BEING DELAYED AND STYMIED BY A LACK OF DISBURSEMENT OF FUNDS THAT IS

NECESSARY TO DO THIS CRITICAL WORK. THE LANGUAGE OF THIS BILL, YOU

KNOW, IN PARTICULAR A POLITICO REPORT TODAY, JUST 15 MINUTES AGO,

STATES, IT WOULD JUST MAKE IT EASIER FOR DEMOCRATS TO DOMINATE THE --

THE LINE-DRAWING PROCESS NEXT YEAR, END QUOTE. I THINK IT'S QUITE

OBVIOUS. AND THE EXECUTIVE AND THE LEGISLATIVE -- YOU KNOW, BUDGET

OFFICES NEED TO ENSURE AND -- WAYS AND MEANS, SENATE FINANCE AND THE

DIVISION OF BUDGET NEEDS TO ENSURE THAT THESE FUNDS ARE DISBURSED

IMMEDIATELY, AND WE NEED TO UTILIZE THIS PROCESS AND, AGAIN, LISTEN TO

THE WILL OF 1.7 MILLION NEW YORKERS WHO PUT THE PROCESS IN PLACE THAT

THEY WANT AND WE'RE NOW TRYING TO SUBVERT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

I'LL BE VOTING NO. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. TAGUE.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI

YIELDS.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MR. ZEBROWSKI. I

APPRECIATE IT. YOU -- LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A LONG DAY, SO I'LL

KEEP IT AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE AND APPRECIATE --

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THAT'S OKAY, MR. TAGUE, I LOVE

THIS. I DO.

MR. TAGUE: OKAY. MR. ZEBROWSKI, THE

INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION WAS ESTABLISHED BY AN

AMENDMENT TO THE STATE CONSTITUTION BACK IN 2014. SO AT THIS TIME IT

HAS NOT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO UNDERTAKE ONE ROUND OF REDISTRICTING

SINCE ITS CREATION. GIVEN THAT, WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO MAKE

CHANGES THAT THIS AMENDMENT WOULD MAKE AT THIS TIME?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WE THINK WE COULD IMPROVE

UPON THE AMENDMENT THAT WAS PASSED SIX OR SO YEARS AGO NOW. AND I

WOULD POINT OUT THAT IF YOU LOOKED AT BILLS INTRODUCED BY MEMBERS -

ALTHOUGH I HAVEN'T DONE A TABULATION - I WOULD SAY PERHAPS A MAJORITY

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

OR IF NOT A GREAT MANY OF THEM WOULD BE AMENDING PRIOR LAWS. THAT

DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE PRIOR LAWS WERE BAD OR, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T HAVE A

PURPOSE OR THAT PEOPLE WOULD REGRET THEIR VOTE WHEN THEY FIRST PASSED

IT. IT JUST MEANS THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS IN A -- IN A CONSTANT STATE OF

ATTEMPTING TO IMPROVE, BOTH PASS NEW LAWS AND AMEND OLD LAWS, AND I

WOULD SAY THAT THIS FALLS IN THAT CATEGORY.

MR. TAGUE: OKAY. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS

AMENDMENT WEAKENS THE GUARANTEES OF ARTICLE I, SECTION 11 OF THE

EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION? AND DO YOU

BELIEVE THAT THIS AMENDMENT WOULD VIOLATE THE EQUAL PROTECTION

CLAUSE OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: NO. DO YOU WANT ME TO EXPAND

ON IT?

MR. TAGUE: NO, THAT'S FINE. YES OR NO IS -- IS FINE,

SIR. THE FEDERAL VOTING RIGHTS ACT ENSURES PROPER MINORITY

REPRESENTATION IN THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS. CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THIS

AMENDMENT WOULD ENSURE THAT THE PROTECTIONS AFFORDED BY THE VOTING

RIGHTS ACT WOULD BE THREATENED?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SURE, MR. TAGUE. FIRST OF ALL, AS

I PREVIOUSLY STATED, THIS COMMISSION IS MADE UP OF TEN MEMBERS; TWO

APPOINTED BY THE SPEAKER, TWO APPOINTED BY THE MINORITY LEADER OF

THE ASSEMBLY - THE SPEAKER'S A DEMOCRAT AND THE MINORITY LEADER IS A

REPUBLICAN - TWO BY THE MAJORITY LEADER OF THE SENATE, TWO BY THE

MINORITY LEADER OF THE SENATE. THAT'S TWO BY THE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY

LEADER AND TWO BY THE DEMOCRATIC [SIC] MINORITY LEADER. SO THAT IS

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

FOUR APPOINTED BY DEMOCRATIC LEADERS, FOUR APPOINTED BY REPUBLICAN

LEADERS. THE FINAL TWO ARE APPOINTED BY A MAJORITY VOTE OF THOSE

MEMBERS. SO YOU WOULD NEED BOTH DEMOCRATS AND -- AND REPUBLICAN

APPOINTEES, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT THAT WAY. LIKE I SAID EARLIER, I

PREFER TO LOOK AT IT AS THEM BEING INDEPENDENT, BUT IF YOU WANT TO LOOK

AT IT THAT WAY, YOU KNOW -- - SO THOSE EXTRA TWO WOULD NEED

COOPERATION BETWEEN THE APPOINTEES FROM ALL OF THE LEGISLATIVE PARTIES.

SO DESPITE BOTH HOUSES OF THE LEGISLATURE BEING CONTROLLED BY

DEMOCRATS, IN -- IN LARGE NUMBERS, THE PANEL AND THE COMMISSION HAS

EQUAL REPRESENTATION BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES. I WOULD ALSO, MR.

TAGUE, POINT YOU TO PAGE 4, LINE 31 IN THE -- IN THE SECTION OF -- OF THE

CONSTITUTION THAT TALKS ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES THAT ARE TO BE USED IN THE

CREATION OF STATE SENATE AND STATE ASSEMBLY AND CONGRESSIONAL

DISTRICTS. SECTION 5 -- OR SUB -- SO IT'S SECTION 5 OF THAT. STARTING ON

PAGE LINE ONE SAYS, EACH DISTRICT SHALL NOT BE DRAWN TO DISCOURAGE

COMPETITION OR FOR THE PURPOSE OF FAVORING OR DISFAVORING INCUMBENTS

OR OTHER POLITICAL CANDIDATES OR POLITICAL PARTIES. SO I WOULD POINT TO

BOTH THE MAKEUP OF THE COMMISSION AND THAT SECTION TO SHOW HOW THIS

PROCESS AND THE COMMISSION IS FAIR AND BIPARTISAN.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU. AND SO, I WOULD SAY IT'S

FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS AMENDMENT, IF IT'S ADOPTED, WOULD

PREVENT PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING OF ALL LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: MY -- MY -- MY INTENTION OF

OFFERING THIS AMENDMENT BEFORE THE HOUSE IS TO CREATE A FAIR

REDISTRICTING PROCESS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MR. TAGUE: AND LASTLY, MR. ZEBROWSKI -- AND

AGAIN, I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS AND GIVING ME THE TIME TO ASK THESE

QUESTIONS. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE CITIZENS OF NEW YORK STATE HAVE A

RIGHT TO BE FREE OF PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING THAT HAS ALSO BEEN

ESTABLISHED BY SECTION 9 OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAW, THE SECTION OF LAW

THAT GUARANTEES ALL CITIZENS TO THE RIGHT OF FREE ELECTIONS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: MR. TAGUE, I'M GOING TO KEEP TO

THE PARAMETERS OF THE AMENDMENT BEFORE THE HOUSE INSTEAD OF TAKING

OUT MY LAW BOOKS AND ATTEMPTING TO ENGAGE IN A MUCH BROADER

DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT OTHER RIGHTS ARE IN EITHER THE FEDERAL OR THE STATE

CONSTITUTION. I WOULD JUST REFER YOU BACK TO THE PRINCIPLES THAT ARE IN

THE AMENDMENT BEFORE THE HOUSE, AND THAT IS, AS I PREVIOUSLY STATED,

DISTRICTS SHALL NOT BE DRAWN TO DISCOURAGE COMPETITION FOR THE PURPOSE

OF FAVORING OR DISFAVORING INCUMBENTS OR OTHER PARTICULAR CANDIDATES OR

POLITICAL PARTIES. SO I BELIEVE THAT IF WE -- MY COLLEAGUES PASS THIS

AMENDMENT TODAY AND IT GOES BEFORE THE VOTERS AND THEY PASS THAT

AMENDMENT IN A REFERENDUM, THAT THAT SECTION IS A GOOD SECTION THAT THE

PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK CAN RELY UPON.

MR. TAGUE: WELL, AGAIN, I THANK YOU VERY MUCH,

MR. ZEBROWSKI, FOR YOUR ANSWERS.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: ON THE BILL.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU. FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE

TO THANK THE SPEAKER FOR THE NEW FLOOR ACTION ON OUR COMPUTERS THAT

MAKES IT A LOT EASIER FOR US TO DO OUR JOBS, THOSE OF US THAT ARE REMOTE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

SO, MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THOSE CHANGES.

ON THIS BILL, TAKING THE MINORITY OUT OF THIS PROCESS

WILL DO NOTHING BUT ALLOW FOR MORE GERRYMANDERING, MORE UNFAIRNESS

AND ONLY SERVES THE PURPOSE OF ENTRENCHING THE POWER OF OUR ALREADY

POWERFUL DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN NEW YORK STATE. WE SHOULD BE

WORKING TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT POLITICAL PARTIES. I

COULD NEVER SUPPORT LEGISLATION THAT EMPOWERS MOSTLY DOWNSTATE

LAWMAKERS TO ROB UPSTATE RESIDENTS OF LEGITIMATE REPRESENTATION AS THIS

BILL DOES. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THE STATE CONSTITUTION WAS

AMENDED IN 2014 TO ESTABLISH A FAIR, INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING PROCESS.

THIS AMENDMENT PASSED BOTH HOUSES OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE. IT WAS

OVERWHELMINGLY APPROVED BY THE VOTERS OF NEW YORK STATE. THIS IS A

PROCESS WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN THROUGH ONCE. WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO FIX

IF WE HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED THE PROCESS BUT ONCE? WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED

IS NOTHING MORE THAN A POORLY-TIMED AND ILL-CONCEIVED POWER GRAB THAT

WILL DO NOTHING, NOTHING TO UNIFY THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK STATE OR

IMPROVE OUR DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

AND FOR THAT REASON, MR. SPEAKER, I REJECT THIS BILL

COMPLETELY AND URGE EVERYBODY ELSE IN THIS BODY THAT VALUES OUR

DEMOCRACY TO DO THE SAME. AND I WANT TO ADD THIS: KUDOS TO THE

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS AND CITIZENS UNION FOR STANDING UP FOR

DEMOCRACY AND THE CONSTITUTION. I HOPE THAT THE VOTERS OF THIS STATE

WILL STAND FOR FAIRNESS, DEMOCRACY AND THE CONSTITUTION, TOO, WHEN

GIVEN THEIR CHANCE.

GOD BLESS AMERICA. THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MR. SMULLEN.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, MADAM SPEAKER, I'LL YIELD.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU. I KNOW WE'VE GOT ONLY

15 MINUTES OR SO HERE, SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE I MOVE FAIRLY QUICKLY

THROUGH OUR -- OUR DISCUSSION HERE. I'VE GOT A LOT TO COVER AND IT'S

REALLY -- IT'S REALLY VERY IMPORTANT STUFF. SO, I ASSUME IT'S, YOU KNOW,

NO COINCIDENCE WE'RE DEBATING THIS BILL ON INAUGURATION DAY WHEN

MOST OF THE NEWS OUTLETS ARE COVERING THE NATIONAL POLITICAL EVENTS, BUT,

REALLY, TO CUT TO THE -- THE CHASE AND THE MATTER AT HAND, IS -- WHAT IS

THIS COMMISSION GOING TO DO SPECIFICALLY FOR REDRAWING FEDERAL

CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS FOR 2022?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I'M NOT SURE IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR

QUESTION, MR. SMULLEN, BUT WHAT WILL THE COMMISSION DO TO DRAW

CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS? IT WILL DO THE SAME PROCESS BY WHICH TO DRAW

SENATE OR ASSEMBLY DISTRICTS. I COULD GO THROUGH THE PRINCIPLES -- I

JUST SPOKE TO MR. TAGUE ABOUT PRINCIPLE -- PART OF PRINCIPLE NUMBER

FIVE, DO YOU WANT ME TO GO THROUGH THE PRINCIPLES THAT THEY WILL USE TO

DRAW THE LINES? DO YOU WANT ME TO GO THROUGH -- YOU KNOW, LOOK.

THE -- BROADLY, THEY WILL TAKE THE CENSUS DATA AND ATTEMPT TO DRAW FAIR

MAPS THAT ARE SUBSTANTIALLY EQUAL IN NUMBER. THEY WILL TAKE INTO

CONSIDERATION THE PRINCIPLES THAT ARE DELINEATED WITHIN THE STATUTE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MR. SMULLEN: AND ALSO FOLLOW THE FEDERAL

GUIDELINES FOR HOW MANY PEOPLE NEED TO BE IN A CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. SMULLEN: AND SO, HOW MANY DISTRICTS IS NEW

YORK GOING TO LOSE UNDER THE MASSIVE POPULATION OUTMIGRATION WE'VE

HAD SINCE THE LAST CENSUS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WE DON'T HAVE THE CENSUS DATA

YET, SO I DON'T KNOW WHETHER NEW YORK WILL LOSE OR GAIN. I TAKE IT

FROM THE CONTEXT OF YOUR QUESTION YOU BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL LOSE

SIGNIFICANTLY. I DON'T KNOW THAT ANSWER YET UNTIL WE HAVE THE CENSUS

DATA.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, ONE OR TWO IS WHAT THE

QUESTION IS. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S COMMONLY KNOWN IN THE PRESS AND I

BELIEVE 1.2 MILLION NEW YORKERS LEAVING IS GOING TO CHANGE OUR

EQUATION, PARTICULARLY IN UPSTATE NEW YORK FOR CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THE DATA WILL BE THE DATA, MR.

SMULLEN.

MR. SMULLEN: AND IN THIS DAY AND AGE, THE DATA

CAN BE MICROSLICED DOWN TO THE INDIVIDUAL VOTER LEVEL TO BE ABLE TO

DETERMINE WHAT ARE THE DISTRICTS THAT PROVIDE THE MOST ADVANTAGE TO THE

POWER, WHATEVER THAT POWER MAY BE, HOLDING THAT -- THAT AUTHORITY TO

DRAW THOSE LINES. NOW, THIS HAS BEEN THE SUBJECT OF POLITICAL DEBATE IN

THE UNITED STATES SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE REPUBLIC; IN FACT,

ELBRIDGE GERRY WAS ONE OF THE -- HE WAS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE VICE

PRESIDENTS IN THE EARLY DAYS OF OUR REPUBLIC. GERRYMANDERING WAS A

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

DISTRICT THAT HE DREW IN MARYLAND THAT LOOKED LIKE A SALAMANDER. NOW,

MOST RECENTLY, THE U.S. SUPREME COURT HAS REVIEWED THIS VERY

THOROUGHLY. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CASE RUCHO V. COMMON CAUSE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DON'T HAVE THE CASE LAW IN

FRONT OF ME, BUT I AM, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR WITH THE -- THE

LAW AND THE ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH THE SUPREME COURT, BUT

I WILL -- I WILL DEFER TO YOU DURING YOUR TIME TO TALK ABOUT THE CASE.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU. SO, IS THIS LAW THAT

WE'RE ABOUT TO PASS, WILL IT BE REVIEWABLE UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION

IN FEDERAL COURT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: OF COURSE, MR. SMULLEN. THE

U.S. CONSTITUTION AND THE -- THE DECISIONS HANDED DOWN BY THE

SUPREME COURT ARE, OF COURSE, BINDING UPON THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

MR. SMULLEN: OF COURSE, AND THAT'S ALSO TRUE IN

STATE COURTS UNDER OUR STATE CONSTITUTION THAT IT CAN, INDEED, BE

REVIEWED IF ENOUGH INTEREST IS SPARKED AND TO SUBJECT IT TO SOME SORT OF

JUDICIAL REVIEW?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I THINK AS THE THIRD BRANCH OF

GOVERNMENT, THE JUDICIARY SERVES AS AN ARBITER OF MANY DISPUTES, BOTH

-- BOTH THOSE THAT ARE CONSTITUTIONAL IN NATURE AND THOSE THAT ARE

LEGISLATIVE IN NATURE AND ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

MR. SMULLEN: CERTAINLY. SO, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT

ABOUT RUCHO V. COMMON CAUSE. IT WAS A CASE THAT WAS DECIDED BY THE

SUPREME COURT IN 2019 WHERE THE PLAINTIFFS CHALLENGED THE 2016 PLAN

IN NORTH CAROLINA ON MULTIPLE CONSTITUTIONAL GROUNDS, SOME OF WHICH

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT, SOME OF WHICH WILL NOT. I'LL KEEP IT BRIEF

BECAUSE I'M ONLY LIMITED TO 15 MINUTES OF -- OF DEBATE TIME HERE, BUT

THE SUPREME COURT, THE CHIEF JUSTICE, QUOTE, "WE DECIDED GILL V.

WHITFORD, A 2018 GERRYMANDERING CASE IN WISCONSIN. IN THAT CASE, WE

HELD THAT A PLAINTIFF ASSERTING A PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING CLAIM BASED

ON A THEORY OF VOTE DILUTION MUST ESTABLISH STANDING BY SHOWING HE

LIVES IN AN ALLEGEDLY, QUOTE, "CRACKED" UNQUOTE, OR, QUOTE "PACKED"

UNQUOTE, "DISTRICT." WHAT DOES PACKING IN TERMS OF GERRYMANDERING

MEAN TO YOU UNDER THIS BILL?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THIS BILL DOESN'T TALK ABOUT

PACKING OR UNPACKING. THE BILL, ON PAGE 4, STARTING WITH LINES 13 SAYS

THAT, SUBJECT TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION AND

STATUTES AND IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE STATE CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS,

THE FOLLOWING PRINCIPLES SHALL BE USED IN THE CREATION OF SENATE AND

ASSEMBLY DISTRICTS. AND I KNOW I'M ON YOUR TIME, MR. SMULLEN, SO I

DON'T WANT TO READ THE WHOLE THING AND TAKE MORE OF YOUR TIME.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: BUT IT TALKS NOT -- THE DENIAL OR

ABRIDGEMENT OF RACIAL AND LANGUAGE MINORITY VOTING RIGHTS, IT TALKS

ABOUT CONTAINING EQUAL -- NEARLY AS EQUAL NUMBER OF INHABITANTS,

CONTINUOUS TERRITORY, COMPACT AND FORMED AS PRACTICABLE, NOT DRAWN TO

DISCOURAGE COMPETITION OR FAVOR INCUMBENTS OR OTHER POLITICAL

CANDIDATES OR PARTIES, AND SHALL CONSIDER THE MAINTENANCE OF CORES OF

EXISTING DISTRICTS. SO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THOSE STRUCTURES, THOSE

ARE PRINCIPLES THAT WOULD BE IN OUR STATE CONSTITUTION TO GUIDE THE --

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THE DRAWING OF FAIR MAPS. I MEAN, DO YOU WANT -- SO, THAT BEING SAID,

DO YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER YOU AS TO WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE PACKING OR

FRACTURING?

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, LET'S MOVE ON BECAUSE THE

CRACKING IS THE NEXT ONE. AND I WON'T ASK YOU -- I WON'T ASK YOU WHAT

IS CRACKING IN TERMS OF THIS BILL, BECAUSE I DO HAVE LIMITED TIME

BECAUSE DEBATE IS LIMITED, BUT IN THIS SUPREME COURT CASE, AND IT'S VERY

RELEVANT TO WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY BECAUSE THE NORTH CAROLINA

AND THE MARYLAND SITUATIONS WAS ONE DEMOCRAT ADVANTAGE, ONE

REPUBLICAN ADVANTAGE. IN THIS CASE, ONE PARTY WILL BE A SEVERE

DEMOCRAT ADVANTAGE IN NEW YORK STATE FOR THE COMING TEN YEARS.

AND WHAT I THINK WE'RE ABOUT TO DO HERE IS -- IS VERY SIMILAR OR EVEN

MORE POLITICALLY CHARGED. THIS IS BECAUSE IN -- AND JUSTICE ROBERTS

SAID THAT, ARTICLE 3 OF THE CONSTITUTION LIMITS THE FEDERAL COURTS TO

DECIDE IN, QUOTE, "CASES" AND, QUOTE, "CONTROVERSIES," UNQUOTE. WE

HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT LIMITATION TO MEAN THE FEDERAL COURTS CAN

ADDRESS ONLY QUESTIONS HISTORICALLY VIEWED AS CAPABLE OF RESOLUTIONS TO

THE JUDICIAL PROCESS. SO, THEY TOOK A PASS ON TAKING CASES OF POLITICAL

GERRYMANDERING FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS; HOWEVER, THEY HELD THAT

EXCESSIVE PARTISANSHIP IN DISTRICTING LEADS TO RESULTS THAT REASONABLY

SEEM UNJUST. BUT THE FACT THAT SUCH GERRYMANDERING IS, QUOTE,

"INCOMPATIBLE WITH DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES," - THIS IS THE ARIZONA STATE

LEGISLATURE CASE - "DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE SOLUTION LIES WITH THE

FEDERAL JUDICIARY. WE CONCLUDE THAT PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING CLAIMS

PRESENT POLITICAL QUESTIONS BEYOND THE REACH OF THE FEDERAL COURTS," -

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

BUT YOU'VE STATED THAT THIS IS NOT BEYOND THE REACH OF THE STATE COURT IN

DECIDING IF THERE IS -- IF THERE IS A RULE OF LAW ISSUE HERE - SO IN

CONSIDERING WHETHER PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING CLAIMS ARE JUSTICEABLE,

WHICH IS AN INTERESTING TERM, WE ARE MINDFUL OF JUSTICE KENNEDY'S

COUNSEL IN THE VF CASE. ANY STANDARD FOR RESOLVING SUCH CLAIMS MUST

BE GROUNDED IN A LIMITED AND PRECISE RATIONALE AND BE CLEAR,

MANAGEABLE AND POLITICALLY NEUTRAL.

SO I ASK AGAIN, IS THIS BILL WE'RE ABOUT TO PASS, IS IT

POLITICALLY NEUTRAL WHEN WE COME TO PACKING AND CRACKING AND WE

LOOK AT WHAT -- WHAT REDISTRICTING IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE ON JANUARY 15TH,

2022?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: MR. SMULLEN, I FEEL LIKE YOUR

QUESTIONS ARE ASKING ME TO ANSWER THINGS BASED UPON LINES AND MAPS

THAT I DON'T HAVE BEFORE ME BECAUSE THIS COMMISSION WILL DRAW THE

LINES AND MAPS. I WOULD SAY THAT NONE OF THAT IS CONTAINED WITHIN THIS

AMENDMENT. IT'S NEUTRAL WE BELIEVE. I -- I TRULY BELIEVE THAT THIS

COMMISSION THAT WE HAVE SET UP AND THE PROCESS THAT'S SET UP IN NEW

YORK IS NOT -- IS NOT ANALOGOUS TO THE CASES THAT WERE BROUGHT BEFORE

THE -- THE SUPREME COURT THAT -- THAT YOU'RE CITING RIGHT NOW. BUT HOW

-- HOW CAN I -- I CAN'T SIT HERE TODAY AND DEFEND LINES THAT AREN'T YET

DRAWN.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, THOSE --

MR. ZEBROWSKI: OR TALK ABOUT, FORGET ABOUT

DEFEND. I CAN'T -- I DON'T -- HOW -- HOW COULD I SAY WHETHER A DISTRICT IS

PACKED, OR WE COULD TALK ABOUT A PACKED DISTRICT WITHOUT HAVING A

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

DISTRICT?

MR. SMULLEN: OR A CRACKED DISTRICT, DON'T FORGET

CRACKED DISTRICTS.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: OR A CRACKED DISTRICT.

MR. SMULLEN: DON'T FORGET THOSE. SO, YOU KNOW,

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU THINK THAT THIS CASE IN THE SUPREME COURT GIVES YOU

THE GREEN LIGHT FOR PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING IN NEW YORK STATE, BUT

JUSTICE KAGAN ARGUED IN THE DISSENT ON THIS CASE, AND SHE WAS QUITE

ELOQUENT, I MIGHT ADD, THAT, QUOTE, "FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, THIS COURT

REFUSES TO REMEDY A CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION BECAUSE IT THINKS THE TASK

BEYOND JUDICIAL CAPABILITIES. AND NOT JUST ANY CONSTITUTIONAL

VIOLATION, THE PARTISAN GERRYMANDERS IN THESE CASES DEPRIVES CITIZENS OF

THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL OF THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, THE RIGHTS TO

PARTICIPATE EQUALLY IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS, TO JOIN WITH OTHERS TO

ADVANCE POLITICAL BELIEFS, AND TO CHOOSE THEIR POLITICAL REPRESENTATIVES.

IN SO DOING, THE PARTISAN GERRYMANDERS HERE DEBASED AND DISHONORED

OUR DEMOCRACY, TURNING UPSIDE DOWN THE CORE AMERICAN IDEA THAT ALL

GOVERNMENTAL POWER DERIVES FROM THE PEOPLE. THESE GERRYMANDERS

ENABLE POLITICIANS TO ENTRENCH THEMSELVES IN OFFICE AS AGAINST VOTERS

PREFERENCES. THEY PROMOTED PARTISANSHIP ABOVE RESPECT FOR THE

POPULAR WILL, THEY ENCOURAGED THE POLITICS OF POLARIZATION AND

DISFUNCTION. IF LEFT UNCHECKED, GERRYMANDERS LIKE THE ONES HERE MAY

IRREPARABLY DAMAGE OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT." DON'T YOU AGREE WITH

JUSTICE KAGAN?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I BELIEVE THAT IF JUSTICE KAGAN

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

WERE TO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR AMENDMENT HERE TODAY AND THE COMMISSION

THAT IS SET UP THAT HAS EQUAL REPRESENTATION BETWEEN APPOINTEES FROM

THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES, DESPITE THE ELECTORAL ADVANTAGES THAT EXIST IN

BOTH HOUSES FOR DEMOCRATS, I THINK JUSTICE KAGAN WOULD BE PLEASED

ABOUT THE MAKEUP OF THAT COMMISSION. I WOULDN'T -- I SAY THAT WITH ALL

DUE RESPECT TO JUSTICE KAGAN AND WOULD NOT TRY TO PUT MYSELF IN HER

SHOES OR HER BRAIN AS TO WHAT SHE WOULD EXACTLY SAY, BUT I, ONCE AGAIN,

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE CASES THAT SHE IS HEARING AND DISSENTING UPON OR

ISSUING OPINIONS ON ARE ANALOGOUS TO THE BIPARTISAN, EQUAL

REPRESENTATION COMMISSION THAT'S BEFORE THE HOUSE TODAY.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

ZEBROWSKI.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MR. SMULLEN ON

THE BILL.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU. THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN

WITH US SINCE THE BIRTH OF OUR REPUBLIC AND, INDEED, IT'S BEEN THE CAUSE

OF BOTH FEDERAL LEGISLATION IN NUMEROUS AREAS, STATE LEGISLATION THAT'S

ENSHRINED IN OUR CONSTITUTION. AND THIS IS FRANKLY A TRAVESTY. HERE WE

ARE ON INAUGURATION DAY. WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE CELEBRATING THE

PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER, BUT WE'RE INDEED PERPETRATING THE

PURPOSEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER PERMANENTLY FROM ONE GROUP OF CITIZENS

IN THE UNITED -- IN THIS GREAT STATE OF NEW YORK. HERE IN A PANDEMIC

WHERE DEBATE IS LIMITED AND WE ARE UNABLE TO FREELY DEBATE FOR AS LONG

AS POSSIBLE, FOR AS LONG AS NECESSARY, ONE OF THE MOST MOMENTOUS

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THINGS THAT WE ARE GOING TO LEGISLATE HERE THIS YEAR, WHICH WILL, INDEED,

COME TO THE VOTERS THIS FALL.

PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING NEVER ENDS WELL FOR GOOD

GOVERNANCE. OUR VOTERS DESERVE BETTER ALL ACROSS THIS STATE. ONE PARTY

RULE -- ONE PARTY RULE IS SIMPLY SLIPPING INTO A TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY

HERE IN NEW YORK STATE. THIS IS AN UNCONSCIONABLE

DISENFRANCHISEMENT OF A GREAT CHUNK OF NEW YORK'S VOTERS, ALMOST

ONE-THIRD. I SAY IF IT'S NOT BROKEN, WE DON'T NEED TO FIX IT HERE TODAY. I

WILL CERTAINLY NOT BE VOTING FOR THIS LAW AND I ENCOURAGE ALL MY

COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE TO STAND UP AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT,

TO DO WHAT IS IN OUR COMMON CAUSE TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL VOTERS IN NEW

YORK HAVE EQUAL REPRESENTATION.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MR. WALCZYK.

MR. WALCZYK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR BE SO KIND AS TO YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, MR. WALCZYK.

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: HE YIELDS.

MR. WALCZYK: THANK YOU. AND THROUGH YOU,

MADAM SPEAKER, I'M ENCOURAGED THAT THIS IS AT LEAST HAPPENING IN THE

LIGHT OF DAY. BILL PROPOSALS LIKE THIS ONE TRADITIONALLY IN THIS BODY OF

LEGISLATURE, I WOULD CONSIDER THIS SO POLITICALLY HOT BUTTON THAT IT

WOULD BE JAMMED INTO A "BIG UGLY" OR A BUDGET BILL, SO I'M VERY

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

ENCOURAGED, THROUGH YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, THAT THIS IS BROUGHT OUT AND

WE CAN HAVE THIS DEBATE, WHILE IT IS ON INAUGURATION DAY. BUT, THEN I

DID ASK COUNSEL AND IT TURNS OUT THAT THIS ACTUALLY HAS TO BE DEBATED AS A

STANDALONE BILL AND CAN'T BE JAMMED INTO ONE OF THOSE, EVEN STILL, I'M --

I'M GLAD TO BE HAVING THIS DIALOG WITH YOU. WHAT -- WHAT IS THE OVERALL

GOAL OF THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: TO IMPROVE UPON THE

AMENDMENT THAT WAS PASSED BACK IN 2014 AND APPROVED BY THE VOTERS

TO CREATE A FAIR PROCESS, TO APPORTION -- WELL, TO -- TO -- TO COUNT THE

GOOD RESIDENTS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND -- SO THAT DISTRICTS ARE

CREATED BY AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION, NOT JUST THIS BODY, AND WE

CAN COME UP WITH DISTRICTS THAT ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PEOPLE OF THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. AND AS I SAID BEFORE, I TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE

PRINCIPLES THAT ARE IN THE AMENDMENT, THE DISTRICTS WERE, YOU KNOW,

SHOULD BE SUBSTANTIALLY -- OR AS GREAT AS POSSIBLE, EQUAL IN SIZE, AND I'M

JUST LISTING THINGS NOW, BUT WHY DON'T YOU GO ON, MR. WALCZYK.

MR. WALCZYK: THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR, AND I

KNOW YOU'VE YIELDED FOR MANY QUESTIONS FROM MY COLLEAGUES, I

APPRECIATE THAT. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THIS DIALOG IN THE OPEN.

IN YOUR -- IN YOUR OPENING EXPLANATION OF THE BILL, YOU DID SAY A COUPLE

OF THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, SORT OF PERKED MY INTEREST. ONE OF THEM WAS

THAT THERE WERE TECHNICAL ISSUES WITH THE UNITED -- OR WITH THE NEW

YORK STATE CONSTITUTION THAT NEEDED TO BE CHANGED HERE. WHAT IN THIS

PIECE OF JOINT RESOLUTION IS THE TECHNICAL CHANGE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SOME OF THE TECHNICAL CHANGES

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

ARE THE DATE CHANGES, THE REMOVAL OF THE WORD "ALIEN" IN VARIOUS

PLACES; THAT'S A COUPLE.

MR. WALCZYK: OKAY. SO YOU WOULD CONSIDER

REMOVING THE WORD -- THE WORD "ALIEN" WHICH MEANS SOMEONE WHO IS

NOT LEGALLY A UNITED STATES CITIZEN BUT DWELLING IN THE STATE OF NEW

YORK A TECHNICAL CHANGE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. WALCZYK: OKAY. AND YOU ALSO USED --

HAVING REDISTRICTING HAPPEN AS PART OF AN ORDERLY PROCESS, OR HAPPEN IN

AN ORDERLY WAY. WHAT IN THE OLD SYSTEM THAT WAS VALIDATED BY 1.7

MILLION NEW YORKERS WAS DISORDERLY?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: IF I COULD JUST AUGMENT MY PRIOR

RESPONSE, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN COUNTING FOLKS, SO BY REMOVING THE WORD

"ALIEN," I'M SAYING IT'S TECHNICAL BECAUSE THAT'S THE PROCESS BY WHICH

WE HAVE BEEN COUNTING PREVIOUSLY. SO, SORRY, MR. WALCZYK, I JUST

WANTED TO AUGMENT THAT, BUT COULD YOU REPEAT YOUR CURRENT QUESTION?

MR. WALCZYK: I WOULD, AND I WOULD LOVE TO CIRCLE

BACK TO NON-CITIZEN RESIDENTS OF NEW YORK STATE IN A MOMENT, AS WELL,

BUT IN YOUR -- IN YOUR OPENING EXPLANATION YOU SAID YOU'RE CHANGING

THE NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION SO THAT WE CAN REDISTRICT IN A MORE

ORDERLY WAY; WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY -- BY THAT? AND WHAT WAS

DISORDERLY ABOUT THE WAY THAT OUR CONSTITUTION WAS FUNCTIONING IN THE

LAST REDISTRICTING?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER

YOU'RE ASKING ME ABOUT ORDERLY BASED UPON 2010, WHICH WAS BEFORE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

EVEN THE PRIOR AMENDMENT, OR WHETHER YOU'RE ASKING ME ON ORDERLY IN

HOW WE CHANGE THE CURRENT AMENDMENT THAT WAS IN 2014. SO, TO TAKE

THE LATTER, IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ORDERLY, I WOULD POINT OUT AS

PROBABLY THE MOST -- ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IS THE NEW TIME

FRAMES WHICH RESPECT OUR NEW POLITICAL CALENDAR AND I THINK CREATE A

MORE ORDERLY AND WORKABLE STRUCTURE WITHIN THAT POLITICAL CALENDAR.

MR. WALCZYK: I WOULD LOVE TO CONTINUE TALKING

ABOUT THE -- THE CALENDAR, SINCE YOU BROUGHT IT UP. SO, THERE'S A -- A

TIMING, OBVIOUSLY, HERE THAT IS IN LINE WITH THE CENSUS AND THAT GOVERNS

OUR -- OR FEEDS INTO THE DATA THAT WOULD MAKE FOR OUR REDISTRICTING

PROCESS. WHAT'S THE -- WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF USING THE -- THE BIG

PICTURE PURPOSE OF USING THE FEDERAL CENSUS' NUMBERS IN OUR

REDISTRICTING?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THE BIG PICTURE PURPOSE,

BECAUSE THAT IS THE WAY BY WHICH THIS COUNTRY COUNTS INHABITANTS AND

PROVIDES DATA SO THAT, THEREFORE, WE CAN ENSURE THE, YOU KNOW,

CONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE OF ONE PERSON/ONE VOTE TO THE EXTENT

PRACTICABLE AND UNDER, YOU KNOW, CURRENT FEDERAL LAW AND

CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, SO THE CENSUS HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESS BY

WHICH WE COME UP WITH THAT DATA.

MR. WALCZYK: OKAY. IF -- IF IT'S -- FOR

CONSIDERATION OF ONE PERSON/ONE VOTE, THEN WHY IN REDISTRICTING WOULD

YOU INCLUDE THOSE WHO ARE NOT ELIGIBLE TO VOTE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WHAT ONE PERSON/ONE VOTE

MEANING THAT THE INHABITANTS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK WITHIN THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

DISTRICTS SHALL HAVE SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR DISTRICT SIZE. YOU KNOW, IF

YOU GO BACK IN HISTORY, WE HAD ALL TYPES OF MODELS THAT I DO NOT

BELIEVE WOULD FULFILL THAT, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTATION BY COUNTY. WE

HAVE COUNTIES WITH MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND WE HAVE COUNTIES WITH, YOU

KNOW, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. SO, THAT CERTAINLY --

MR. WALCZYK: SURE. IF I COULD -- I APOLOGIZE FOR

CUTTING YOU OFF --

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SURE.

MR. WALCZYK: -- BUT JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN

LIMITED IN OUR TIME FOR A DEBATE HERE, I -- I WANT TO GET THROUGH THESE

QUESTIONS BECAUSE I THINK THEY'RE IMPORTANT TO GET ON THE RECORD. AND I

WANT TO POINT OUT THAT ONE PERSON/ONE VOTE IS A VERY IMPORTANT

PRINCIPLE AND ONE THAT WE SUBSCRIBE TO AS UNITED STATES CITIZENS IN OUR

-- IN OUR DISTRICTING PROCESS AND WE SWEAR AN OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION.

YOU'RE COUNTING IN DISTRICTS HERE, YOU'RE REMOVING WHAT YOU CALL A

TECHNICAL AMENDMENT, "ALIENS" FROM NOT BEING COUNTED, RIGHT? SO

THEY'RE GOING TO BE COUNTED IN A DISTRICT. BUT YOU USED "INHABITANTS" IN

YOUR REBUT THERE. AT THE SAME TIME, YOU'RE TAKING PRISONERS AND YOU'RE

COUNTING THEM IN A PLACE WHERE THEY DON'T ACTUALLY LIVE AND RESIDE. SO,

IS IT -- IS IT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO LIVE AND RESIDE IN AN AREA AND THEY'RE

GOING TO HAVE REPRESENTATION IN THE SENATE AND THE ASSEMBLY AND THE

CONGRESS, OR IS IT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE? I'M HAVING A

HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING THE PRINCIPLE HERE.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SURE. IT'S ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO

LIVE WITHIN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT STANDARDS. SO

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

FOR THE STANDARDS OF INCARCERATED PEOPLE AS WAS PASSED BY THE

LEGISLATURE IN 2010, PARAPHRASING -- I COULD QUOTE THE EXACT LANGUAGE

FOR YOU IF YOU WANT WITHIN THIS MINUTE, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS TO THE EXTENT

PRACTICABLE COUNTED AT THEIR LAST KNOWN ADDRESS.

MR. WALCZYK: OKAY. SO PRIOR TO THIS, THROUGH

YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, THERE WERE JOINT REQUIREMENTS FOR, AND I KNOW

THE -- THE TERM HAS BEEN DEBATED TODAY ABOUT THIS INDEPENDENT

REDISTRICTING COMMISSION; I -- I THINK BIPARTISAN IS PROBABLY A BETTER

WAY TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IT WAS IN THE PAST, PARTISAN IS PROBABLY THE BEST

WAY TO DESCRIBE WHAT IT IS PROPOSED TO BE IN THE FUTURE. THERE WAS A

REPUBLICAN AND A DEMOCRAT CO-COMMISSIONER OF THIS COMMISSION;

THAT REQUIREMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED. CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHY THAT'S

BEEN?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THE SELECTION OF THE -- THE

EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS WAS SIMILARLY PARTISAN, AS WAS THE VOTING

REQUIREMENTS. IT WAS BASED UPON THE -- WHO THE MAJORITY LEADER OF THE

SENATE AND THE MAJORITY LEADER OF THE SPEAKER [SIC] WERE, AND SO I

WOULD REFER BACK, ONCE AGAIN, TO THE LANGUAGE I QUOTED EARLIER FROM THE

COMMON CAUSE, NYPIRG AND REINVENT ALBANY MEMO, THEY ACTUALLY

REFERRED TO BOTH. IT DOES AWAY WITH THE PARTISAN CO-DIRECTORS OF THE

REDISTRICTING COMMISSION AND ELIMINATES THE PARTISAN COMMISSION

VOTING RULES. SO, IN OUR ARGUMENT, BOTH THINGS WERE UNNECESSARILY

PARTISAN. THE PANEL IS BIPARTISAN.

MR. WALCZYK: RIGHT.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: NEITHER PARTY HAS A MAJORITY SO

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

BY REQUIRING A MAJORITY TO ELECT THOSE FOLKS, IT IS BIPARTISAN.

MR. WALCZYK: THROUGH YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, I

THINK ANOTHER WAY TO READ THAT, AND I APPRECIATE YOU READING THAT QUOTE

OFF, I THINK ANOTHER WAY TO READ THAT IF YOU'RE REMOVING THE

PARTISANSHIP THEN YOU'RE ALSO REMOVING THE BIPARTISANSHIP. IF YOU SAY

THAT THERE HAS TO BE, LIKE WE'VE SELECTED THESE EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS TO BE

ONE REPUBLICAN AND ONE DEMOCRAT, THAT'S PARTISAN, BUT IT'S ALSO

BIPARTISAN. IT'S BI-PARTY, BUT WE'VE ALSO MADE SURE THAT THERE ARE ONE

REPRESENTED FROM EACH PARTY AND THAT IS THE REQUIREMENT THAT'S BEING

REMOVED. BUT TO MOVE ALONG, THROUGH YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, WHY

CHANGE THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF SENATORS THAT CAN BE REPRESENTED IN

ONE SINGLE COUNTY? IS THIS -- WHAT'S THE -- WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THAT IN

THIS LEGISLATION?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WE DON'T COUNT THAT WAY. WE

DON'T NECESSARILY, WHILE WE RESPECT JURISDICTIONAL BOUNDARIES, AND I

CITED THE PRINCIPLES BEFORE AND IT IS ONE OF THE PRINCIPLES, WE DO NOT

DRAW DISTRICTS JUST BASED PURELY UPON POLITICAL BOUNDARIES. IF WE DID,

THEN YOU'D HAVE, YOU KNOW, ONE SENATOR FROM BROOKLYN AND ONE

SENATOR FROM ROCKLAND COUNTY, AND THAT CERTAINLY WOULDN'T PASS

CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER.

MR. WALCZYK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WITH TIME QUICKLY COMING TO A CLOSE, I'D LIKE TO GO ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: ON THE BILL.

MR. WALCZYK: I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S

RESPONSES. WHILE WE MAY HAVE DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT WHAT IT LOOKS TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

BE BIPARTISAN OR INDEPENDENT, OUR CURRENT SYSTEM CERTAINLY IS NOT

PERFECT THE WAY THAT THE NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION WRITES. THIS WAS

BY POLITICAL PARTY BOSSES HERE IN ALBANY, BUT IT GUARANTEED THAT THERE

WAS AT LEAST BIPARTISAN REPRESENTATION IN THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS.

ON INAUGURATION DAY WHEN WE GET TO HEAR OUR

PRESIDENT, JOE BIDEN, TALKING ABOUT THE NATION COMING TOGETHER, TALKING

ABOUT HOW HE REPRESENTS ALL PEOPLE NO MATTER WHAT PARTY, WHETHER THEY

VOTED FOR HIM OR NOT, I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT MESSAGE AND ONE THAT

NEEDS TO BE HEARD IN THIS CHAMBER, BECAUSE IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING

REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, IT'S ABOUT BALANCE OF POWER. IT'S ABOUT EQUAL

REPRESENTATION. IT'S ABOUT SOME OF THE PRINCIPLES THAT THE SPONSOR OF

THIS JOINT RESOLUTION SAID RIGHT HERE, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY

COME TOGETHER. A TRULY INDEPENDENT -- YOU KNOW, AS ONE OF MY

COLLEAGUES POINTED OUT, A TRULY INDEPENDENT COMMISSION WOULD BE

VERY DIFFICULT TO PUT TOGETHER, ESPECIALLY IN THE CLIMATE THAT ALBANY HAS.

PICKING TRULY INDEPENDENT MEMBERS, I MEAN, IT'S PARTY BOSSES THAT RUN

IT HERE. BUT WHAT WE CAN DO, WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S CHECKS AND

BALANCES. WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, UPSTATERS,

DOWNSTATERS ARE ALL REPRESENTED ON THE COMMISSION. THAT'S SOMETHING

THAT AT LEAST THE PARTIES BRING TO THE TABLE.

YOU WANT TO CREATE TRUST IN GOVERNMENT? YOU WANT TO

HAVE A MORE TRUSTING CITIZENRY OF WHAT WE DO IN THIS CHAMBER AND IN

THIS STATE HOUSE? CREATE MORE BALANCE. AND IF YOU WANT TO WIN MORE

SEATS, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THIS LEGISLATION, AND I ASKED THE SPONSOR RIGHT

UP FRONT WHAT WAS THE GOAL HERE. THE GOAL HERE IS POLITICAL. THE GOAL

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

HERE IS TO HAVE MORE DEMOCRATS ELECTED TO THE NEW YORK STATE

ASSEMBLY AND TO THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE. YOU KNOW HOW TO DO

THAT? GO KNOCK ON MORE DOORS THAN YOUR OPPONENT. WORK HARDER. DO

BETTER WORK HERE THAT GETS THE INCUMBENTS BACK IN. YOU DON'T HAVE TO

FIX THE RACE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FIX THE RULES. WE'VE ALREADY GOT A

SYSTEM THAT IS COMPETITIVE AND MAKES IT BETTER FOR THE CITIZENS OF NEW

YORK. PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED WITH OUR GOVERNMENT, BUT THIS ISN'T THE

WAY TO FIX THAT BY SAYING ONE PARTY GETS TO PICK THE -- THE DISTRICT LINES.

YOU CAN'T JUST REMOVE OUR SEATS, CHANGE THE LINES

AROUND, GERRYMANDER DISTRICTS, CUT OUR DEBATE TIME FROM 30 MINUTES TO

15 MINUTES AND EXPECT NEW YORKERS NOT TO CONTINUE TO LEAVE IN

DROVES. I GOT USED TO SAYING 19 MILLION NEW YORKERS, AND THEN I HAD

TO SCRATCH IT OUT WHEN I WROTE IT DOWN HERE, IT'S ACTUALLY 17.5 MILLIONS

NEW YORKERS. WE'RE COUNTING THEM DIFFERENTLY. WE KEEP UP THESE

POLICIES, I MEAN, MAYBE BY THE END OF THE SESSION I'LL BE SAYING 15

MILLION NEW YORKERS. FLORIDA'S GROWING, AND HERE'S A REASON WHY.

SO TO MY COLLEAGUES, ESPECIALLY TO THE NEW COLLEAGUES

OF THIS BODY, AND I DON'T CARE WHETHER YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN OR A

DEMOCRAT, YOU ARE LOW ON THE POLITICAL TOTEM POLE HERE AND PARTY

BOSSES, NOW JUST DEMOCRAT PARTY BOSSES, WHEN THEY DRAW THE LINES, YOU

ARE LAST IN LINE. SO THINK ABOUT THAT IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT FROM NEW

YORK CITY THAT JUST GOT ELECTED, DULY-ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE IN YOUR

DISTRICT, YOUR DISTRICT LINES ARE ABOUT TO CHANGE, AND NOT AN INDEPENDENT

COMMISSION, NOT EVEN A BIPARTISAN COMMISSION ANYMORE IS GOING TO

DECIDE WHAT YOUR DISTRICT LOOKS LIKE NEXT TIME AROUND. AND TO THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, THIS HAS ALREADY PASSED THE SENATE,

THIS JOINT RESOLUTION IS ABOUT TO PASS THIS HOUSE. THEY WOULDN'T PUT IT

ON THE FLOOR IF THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD THE VOTES, WOULD THEY, MR.

SPEAKER - OR MADAM SPEAKER.

SO, ONE PARTY RULE IS GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU AND IT'S

YOUR JOB, THE CITIZENS OF NEW YORK WHEN YOU SEE THIS ON THE BALLOT, TO

FLIP YOUR BALLOT OVER, AND BE THE FINAL CHECK AND BALANCE ON THIS

GOVERNMENT. WE CAN KEEP THE OLD SYSTEM THAT WAS NOT PERFECT, WAS

NOT GREAT, STILL ALLOWED GERRYMANDERED DISTRICTS, BUT AT LEAST HAD

BIPARTISAN CHECKS AND BALANCES IN DRAWING THE LINES FOR THE CONGRESS,

FOR THE SENATE AND FOR THE ASSEMBLY. BUT IT'S UP TO YOU.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I VOTE NO.

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MR. LAWLER.

MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER; MR.

SPEAKER, GOOD TO SEE YOU ON THE FLOOR. BEFORE I ASK THE SPONSOR TO

YIELD, I WANT TO MAKE TWO COMMENTS. THIS BODY HAS NOT BEEN IN

REGULAR ORDER SINCE LAST MARCH. IT HAS NOT BEEN DOING ITS WORK UNDER

NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE RULES OF THIS BODY AND, YET, THE FIRST BILL

WE'RE DEALING WITH IS REDISTRICTING. SECONDARILY, AT A TIME OF

UNPRECEDENTED CRISIS WHERE VACCINES ARE NOT BEING DISTRIBUTED TO OUR

CITIZENS, THIS IS THE FIRST BILL THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH? THIS IS WHAT OUR

FOCUS IS? IT'S SHAMEFUL.

I WOULD ASK THE SPONSOR TO YIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: WILL YOU YIELD,

MR. ZEBROWSKI?

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, MADAM SPEAKER, I'LL YIELD.

MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. ZEBROWSKI. THREE

PROCESS QUESTIONS. PUTTING ASIDE THE CALENDAR CHANGE, WHICH I WOULD

AGREE BASED ON THE FACT THAT WE MOVED THE PRIMARY UP, IT'S NECESSARY,

WOULD YOU -- PUTTING THAT ASIDE, IF DEMOCRATS DID NOT TAKE CONTROL OF

THE STATE SENATE IN 2018, WOULD THIS BILL BE UNDER CONSIDERATION TODAY,

AND WOULD YOU HAVE SPONSORED IT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I CAN'T PUT MYSELF IN THE SHOES OF

THAT SENATE MAJORITY, MR. LAWLER, SO IF THEY WOULD AGREE TO THIS

AMENDMENT AND THEN IT WOULD BE BEFORE THE HOUSE, BUT I DON'T KNOW

WHAT THE MAJORITY LEADER OR THOSE SENATE MAJORITY MEMBERS WOULD

THINK ABOUT THIS.

MR. LAWLER: I WILL VENTURE A GUESS THAT NO. WHAT

YEAR DID THE ORIGINAL CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT PASS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: 2014.

MR. LAWLER: WAS THAT A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION

YEAR?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. LAWLER: IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS

BILL, IF PASSED -- IF IT PASSES THE LEGISLATURE, WILL BE PUT UP FOR A

REFERENDUM THIS YEAR?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. LAWLER: IS THIS A LOCAL ELECTION YEAR?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. LAWLER: WOULD YOU AGREE THAT GUBERNATORIAL

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

ELECTIONS GENERALLY HAVE A HIGHER TURNOUT THAN LOCAL ELECTION YEARS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I THINK THAT'S USUALLY WHAT

HAPPENS.

MR. LAWLER: OKAY. DO YOU THINK PUTTING THIS BILL

UP FOR A REFERENDUM IN A LOCAL YEAR AS OPPOSED TO A GUBERNATORIAL YEAR

DISENFRANCHISES VOTERS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: EVERY VOTER WILL HAVE AN

OPPORTUNITY TO CAST A BALLOT IN NEW YORK STATE BASED UPON -- ON THIS

AMENDMENT. I WOULD HOPE THEY ALL DO SO. I'M CERTAINLY NOT

DISENFRANCHISING ANYBODY. VOTERS ARE FREE TO CHOOSE WHETHER TO VOTE

OR NOT TO VOTE.

MR. LAWLER: BUT YOU AGREE, THROUGH, THAT,

GENERALLY SPEAKING, HIGHER TURNOUT OCCURS IN A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION

AND THAT THIS PREVIOUS VERSION OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT WAS

PASSED DURING A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION AND NOT A LOCAL ELECTION.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: IT'S TOUGH TO COMPARE, MR.

LAWLER, BECAUSE I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES' BILLS

THAT WILL MAKE IT EASIER TO VOTE IN NEW YORK STATE, SO I HOPE THE NEXT

VOTING YEAR AFTER THESE BILLS WILL HAVE A LOT MORE TURNOUT.

MR. LAWLER: I WOULD AGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT

THAT I HOPE WE HAVE HIGHER TURNOUT, ALTHOUGH I DO FEAR THAT TRYING TO

PASS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT IN A LOCAL ELECTION YEAR AS OPPOSED TO

A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION YEAR, AS WE DID ON THE ORIGINAL, WILL

DISENFRANCHISE VOTERS.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I JUST DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

DEFINITION OF "DISENFRANCHISE." YOU KNOW, I MEAN, LIKE NOTHING IN THIS

AMENDMENT WILL PREVENT ANYBODY FROM VOTING THAT CAN'T -- THAT WILL

PREVENT ANYONE FROM VOTING PERIOD, I GUESS. SO, EVERY VOTER WILL HAVE

AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON THIS.

MR. LAWLER: WELL, I HOPE THEY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF

IT, THOUGH I FEAR THEY WON'T. LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION WITH RESPECT TO

THE TWO ADDITIONAL MEMBERS. YOU HAVE SAID THOSE ARE APPOINTED BY

THE EIGHT MEMBERS WHO ARE APPOINTED BY THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS OF

EACH CAUCUS WITHIN EACH HOUSE, CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: RIGHT, BY A MAJORITY.

MR. LAWLER: OKAY. AND BY A MAJORITY OF THOSE

MEMBERS, THANK YOU. THOSE MEMBERS, OBVIOUSLY, IN ORDER TO GET TO

SEVEN, YOU WOULD NEED AT LEAST ONE REPUBLICAN THEORETICALLY, A

REPUBLICAN APPOINTEE TO VOTE TO GET TO SEVEN, CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. LAWLER: UNDER THE CURRENT CONSTITUTIONAL

AMENDMENT, IT REQUIRES AT LEAST ONE APPOINTEE FROM EACH CAUCUS WITHIN

EACH HOUSE, CORRECT, TO GET TO SEVEN?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: ONE APPOINTEE --

MR. LAWLER: IN ORDER TO BUILD CONSENSUS.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: IT WOULD REQUIRE ONE APPOINTEE

FROM EACH ONE OF THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS.

MR. LAWLER: AT LEAST ONE, RIGHT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SORRY. GO AHEAD, ASK YOUR

QUESTION. I KNOW THE STENOGRAPHER NEEDS US TO SPEAK SEPARATELY, SO -- I

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

DIDN'T ANSWER YOUR QUESTION; DID YOU SAY AT LEAST ONE?

MR. LAWLER: SO -- SO UNDER CURRENT CONSTITUTIONAL

AMENDMENT, IN ORDER TO GET TO SEVEN IT REQUIRES AT LEAST ONE VOTE FROM

EACH CAUCUS WITHIN EACH HOUSE, CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, MR. LAWLER. I MEAN, I

HESITATE BECAUSE I THINK YOUR QUESTION SUGGESTS THAT IT'S THE CAUCUSES OR

THE CONFERENCES OF EACH HOUSE. WE WOULD ENVISION A MORE

INDEPENDENT PROCESS, BUT I'LL -- I'LL GENERALLY SAY YES.

MR. LAWLER: I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE, THIS IS NOT A

TRULY INDEPENDENT COMMISSION. THIS IS A BIPARTISAN COMMISSION, IT IS

NOT A TRULY INDEPENDENT COMMISSION; WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, AS I ASKED MR. NORRIS

BEFORE, THERE COULD BE MANY WAYS THAT FOLKS WOULD BE SELECTED. MANY

OF THOSE WAYS COULD LEAD TO MORE DEMOCRATS OR MORE REPUBLICANS, I

GUESS, BEING MEMBERS OF THE PANEL.

MR. LAWLER: RIGHT, BUT THAT'S -- I APOLOGIZE, JUST

GIVEN THE TIME, THAT WE DON'T NEED TO TALK IN HYPOTHETICALS, WE CAN TALK

IN JUST -- BASED ON WHAT IT IS. CURRENTLY THESE ARE APPOINTED PEOPLE BY

THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS, SO IT'S A BIPARTISAN COMMISSION, IT'S NOT AN

INDEPENDENT COMMISSION BY ANY DEFINITION OF "INDEPENDENT."

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, IT'S NOT THE LEGISLATURES,

WHICH IS HOW IT OPERATED FOR DECADES AND DECADES AND DECADES. SO,

IT'S NOT THE LEGISLATURES SO I WOULD SAY IT'S INDEPENDENT.

MR. LAWLER: WELL, THE LEGISLATURE ULTIMATELY HAS

APPROVAL ON ANY MAP, NO?

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, WE ARE A BRANCH OF

GOVERNMENT, SO CERTAINLY.

MR. LAWLER: RIGHT. SO, ULTIMATELY IT IS THE

LEGISLATURE.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WE HAVE SET UP A PANEL WHICH

WILL INDEPENDENTLY DRAW LINES.

MR. LAWLER: RIGHT.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THAT IS CERTAINLY MORE

INDEPENDENT THAN WAS THE PROCESS AND MORE INDEPENDENT THAN MANY

OTHER STATES IN THE UNION.

MR. LAWLER: OKAY. AGAIN, I WOULD JUST SAY THIS

IS MORE BIPARTISAN THAN THE PREVIOUS PROCESS; IT IS CERTAINLY NOT

INDEPENDENT. IN TERMS OF, THOUGH, THESE TWO MEMBERS, NOW YOUR

CHANGE, OKAY, BASICALLY IN TERMS OF GETTING TO THE SEVEN, YOUR CHANGE

IN -- IN YOUR AMENDMENT NO LONGER REQUIRES AT LEAST ONE MEMBER OF

EACH CAUCUS OF EACH HOUSE, CORRECT, TO APPROVE OF THE PLAN?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES. WE NO LONGER WANT AN

APPOINTEE OF A LEGISLATIVE LEADER TO BE AN AUTOMATIC VETO TO AN

OTHERWISE INDEPENDENT, FAIR PLAN.

MR. LAWLER: WELL, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY AN

AUTOMATIC VETO, BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE ULTIMATELY IS THE DECIDER. IF --

IF -- IF THEY DON'T REACH SEVEN, YOU'RE STILL GOING TO GET A MAP, NO?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: IT DEPENDS. I MEAN, THERE'S

VARIOUS PROCESSES BY WHICH MAPS WILL END UP BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE,

BUT THIS PLAN ENVISIONS A BIPARTISAN PROCESS, AN INDEPENDENT PROCESS

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

WHERE AS IT'S NOT THE LEGISLATURE, WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT THAT, AND WHERE

WE ENCOURAGE SEVEN VOTES, WHICH IS -- WHICH WOULD REQUIRE BOTH

PARTIES, DESPITE -- DESPITE THE CURRENT MAKEUP OF THE LEGISLATURE, I

MEAN, THAT'S WHAT HAS ME PRETTY FLABBERGASTED HERE. I CAN'T CROSS-CHECK

MR. NORRIS' NUMBERS BEFORE, BUT I THINK HE SAID THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IN THE NEW YORK ASSEMBLY REPRESENTS 5.5 MILLION OUT OF

19.5 MILLION; THAT'S AROUND 29 PERCENT. WE DIDN'T DO THAT, WE DIDN'T

GIVE THE MINORITY LEADER 29 PERCENT ON THE COMMISSION. WE GAVE

HIM 50 PERCENT ON THE COMMISSION. SO, I THINK THIS IS BIPARTISAN, I

THINK IT'S INDEPENDENT.

MR. LAWLER: WELL, WHEN YOU SAY "WE," WHEN YOU

SAY "WE," IT WAS YOU, THIS -- THIS BODY, THE ASSEMBLY DEMOCRATIC

MAJORITY AND THE SENATE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY. SO "WE" WAS A

BIPARTISAN WE, IT WASN'T OUT OF BENEVOLENCE FROM THIS BODY.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, THE PROVERBIAL "WE," AND IT

TAKES ON SEVERAL CONNOTATIONS HERE. IT'S THE 2014 AMENDMENT, IT WAS

ALSO THE VOTERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AND I WILL SAY THE VOTERS,

THAT'S NOT CHANGING, THAT PANEL'S NOT CHANGING, SO SOME OF THIS IS

CHANGING. THE PROVERBIAL "WE."

MR. LAWLER: I APOLOGIZE TO SPEED THIS ALONG, BUT

TWO QUICK QUESTIONS. IF THE MAP IS SO GOOD AND IT GETS SEVEN MEMBERS,

WHOEVER THOSE SEVEN MEMBERS ARE, WOULDN'T IT STAND TO REASON THAT IT

WOULD GET 60-PLUS PERCENT OF THE SUPPORT IN THE LEGISLATURE? WHY DO

WE NEED TO CHANGE IT TO A SIMPLY MAJORITY IF IT'S SUCH A GOOD MAP THAT

SEVEN MEMBERS OF THIS BIPARTISAN COMMISSION AGREE, WHY WOULD WE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

NEED TO ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR MAYBE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT WITHIN THIS

BODY?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, I DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE THIS

-- THIS PANEL WITH SEVEN MEMBERS IS NOW INDEPENDENT AND WE

CERTAINLY, WE WOULD TRY TO COME UP WITH A MECHANISM WHEREAS, YOU

KNOW, A FEW NUMBER OF LEGISLATORS WHO THEORETICALLY ARE JUST WORRIED

ABOUT THEIR OWN DISTRICT OR DON'T LIKE THE POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS OF THE

MAP COULDN'T HALT AN OTHERWISE FAIR MAP.

MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU. YOU COMMENTED

EARLIER, ONE PERSON/ONE VOTE, SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR DISTRICTS. THE

AVERAGE, UNDER THE LAST CENSUS, WAS ABOUT 129,500 INHABITANTS, WITH A

5 PERCENT DEVIATION. WHEN LOOKING THROUGH ALL 150 ASSEMBLY

DISTRICTS, THE HIGH WAS 149,000 IN A DISTRICT AND THE LOW WAS 109,000

IN A DISTRICT; WOULD YOU CALL THAT SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DON'T HAVE YOUR STATISTICS IN

FRONT OF ME. I BELIEVE THAT THE PRIOR MAPS, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WENT

THROUGH A COURT BASED UPON THAT ISSUE OR A COURT CHALLENGE, BUT IF IT DID,

I -- I GATHER, SINCE WE -- THE STATE HAS BEEN OPERATING UNDER THEM THAT

IS FOUND TO MEET THAT CONSTITUTIONAL --

MR. LAWLER: OKAY.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: -- MANDATE, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT

I WOULD HOPE THAT THE DISTRICTS COULD BE, JUST LIKE THIS AMENDMENT

BEFORE THE HOUSE, AS EQUAL AS POSSIBLE.

MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. ZEBROWSKI.

ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. LAWLER: ANY DEFINITION OF INDEPENDENT,

OKAY, NOT SUBJECT TO CONTROL BY OTHERS, NOT AFFILIATED WITH A LARGER

CONTROLLING UNIT, NOT BOUND BY A COMMITTED -- BUT WE'RE COMMITTED TO A

POLITICAL PARTY. THIS IS NOT INDEPENDENT; IT NEVER WAS. IT WAS

BIPARTISAN. IT WAS AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE SPEAKER AND THE MAJORITY

LEADER AT THE TIME. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS, OKAY? AND YOU GUYS NOW ARE

ATTEMPTING TO ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR BIPARTISANSHIP. YOU ARE

ATTEMPTING TO THWART THE WILL OF ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW

YORK, AND YOU'RE ATTEMPTING TO ENSURE ONE PARTY RULE. AND ALL THAT WILL

DO IS ENSURE GROUP THINGS. THAT SERVES NOBODY. THAT DOES NOT HELP

ANYBODY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. YOU ALREADY HAVE 107 MEMBERS

OUT OF 150; THE SENATE IS 43 MEMBERS OUT OF 63. THERE IS NO SITUATION

AT THIS MOMENT WHERE YOU GUYS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PASS WHATEVER

LEGISLATION YOU WANT, OKAY? ALL THIS IS DOING IS TRYING TO SILENCE THE

MINORITY.

ED KOCH BROUGHT ABOUT THIS REDISTRICTING COMMISSION

BY IMPLORING PEOPLE TO BE CHAMPIONS AND HEROES OF REFORM. THE

SPONSOR WAS LABELED A HERO OF REFORM BECAUSE HE SUPPORTED THE IDEA OF

AN INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION. THIS BILL WILL FOREVER

CHANGE THAT AND MY HOPE IS THAT MY COLLEAGUES WILL SEE REASON, THAT THE

SPEAKER WILL SEE REASON, AND THAT WE WILL ALL TRY TO MOVE FORWARD IN A

BIPARTISAN WAY. AND IF WE REALLY WANT AN INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING

COMMISSION, THEN WE WOULD PROPOSE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT

WOULD DO JUST THAT. THIS DOES NOT DO THAT. I OPPOSE THIS BILL STRONGLY,

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

AND I THANK YOU FOR THE TIME, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. ABINANTI.

MR. ABINANTI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. ABINANTI: YES. I RISE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF

THIS LEGISLATION. THIS PROPOSAL IS A PROPOSAL TO GIVE THE VOTERS AN

OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS THAT THEY PREVIOUSLY

APPROVED. THERE WAS A LOT OF CRITICISM ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONAL

AMENDMENT THAT WE PASSED BACK IN 2014 FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE

FROM ALL AROUND THE STATE. BUT AS SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE POINTED

OUT, IT WAS A COMPROMISE. IT WAS THE BEST THAT WE COULD DO AT THE TIME.

BUT AS WE NOW APPROACH THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT PROCESS, SEVERAL

PROBLEMS HAVE SURFACED, THINGS THAT PEOPLE SPOKE ABOUT BEFORE.

THIS CHANGE THAT WE ARE PROPOSING WOULD MAKE THE

PROCESS MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS BASED ON

MAJORITY RULE AND PROTECTION OF MINORITY RIGHTS. THIS IS, FIRST OF ALL, NOT

AN ATTEMPT BY THE LEGISLATURE TO SUBVERT THE VOTER'S CHOICE. THIS WILL

GIVE THE VOTERS THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECONSIDER WHAT THEY DID BEFORE AND

PERHAPS IMPROVE IT. THIS IS NOT THE LEGISLATURE ATTEMPTING TO SUBVERT

THE VOTERS. WE ARE GOING TO GIVE THE VOTERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME OUT

AND VOTE ON THIS IN A YEAR WHEN THERE'S NOT A LOT OF OTHER BIG ISSUES OUT

THERE, WHERE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET CONFUSED BY A GUBERNATORIAL

ELECTION OR BY A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. THEY'RE COMING OUT TO VOTE ON

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

LOCAL ISSUES, AND THIS WILL BE ONE OF THE STATEWIDE ISSUES THAT THEY CAN

LOOK AT, DISCUSS, AND MAKE A DETERMINATION ON. EVERY VOTER WILL HAVE

A RIGHT TO COME OUT AND TAKE A LOOK AT THIS AND CAST A VOTE.

A SECOND IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT THIS PRESERVES THE

TWO-STEP PROCESS THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE BEFORE. THERE WILL BE A

REDISTRICTING COMMISSION AND THEN A VOTE BY THE LEGISLATURE. THE

REDISTRICTING COMMISSION WILL NOT BE CHANGED IN COMPOSITION. IT IS

STILL GOING TO BE APPOINTED BY THE MAJORITY AND MINORITY IN EACH OF THE

TWO HOUSES. THAT HAS NOT CHANGED. AND DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE

DEMOCRATS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK MAKE UP 50 PERCENT OF THE

REGISTERED VOTERS, THE TWO DEMOCRATIC LEADERS WILL PROVIDE ONLY 50

PERCENT OF THE COMPOSITION. NOW, I SAY "ONLY" BECAUSE THE TWO

MINORITY LEADERS, WHICH HAPPEN TO BE REPUBLICAN LEADERS NOW,

REPRESENT APPROXIMATELY 25 PERCENT OF THE REGISTERED VOTERS IN THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. I'VE HEARD SOME DIFFERENT NUMBERS COME AROUND.

I JUST LOOKED ON THE WEBSITE OF THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS AND I SEE

REPUBLICANS REPRESENT -- BEING 22 PERCENT OF THE REGISTERED VOTERS,

WHICH MEANS THAT DEMOCRATS, 50 PERCENT, REPUBLICANS, 22, THE REAL

MINORITY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS NOT REPUBLICANS, IT'S EVERYBODY

ELSE. AND SO, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT REPRESENTS THIS SMALL

PERCENTAGE OF THE VOTERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, WELL, THE REGISTERED

VOTERS, HAS 50 PERCENT OF THE COMMISSION, BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO

CHANGE; THERE'S STILL GOING TO BE THAT BIPARTISANSHIP. SO, THE

REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT REPRESENTS A SMALL PART OF THE REGISTERED VOTERS IS

STILL GOING TO HAVE 50 PERCENT ON THE COMMISSION.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

WHAT THIS DOES DO IS IT SAYS THAT IF THE PARTY -- IF THE

PARTIES CANNOT AGREE AND COME UP WITH A PLAN AGREEABLE TO EVERYONE,

THEN WHEN IT COMES TO THE LEGISLATURE, WE'RE REDUCING THE NUMBER OF

VOTERS -- OF VOTES NEEDED TO PASS A PLAN FROM 67 TO 60. NOW, I DON'T

KNOW WHERE 67 CAME FROM, BUT 60 PERCENT SEEMS TO BE THE AGREED TO

NUMBER ON JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING. IN A DEMOCRACY, WE SOMETIMES ASK

FOR A SUPERMAJORITY. EVEN THE UNITED STATES SENATE, WHEN IT BREAKS A

FILIBUSTER, REQUIRES ONLY 60 PERCENT; IT DOESN'T REQUIRE TWO-THIRDS.

NOW, WHY ARE WE CONCERNED ABOUT DOING THIS? WELL,

AS THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL JUST SAID RECENTLY, IN RESPONSE TO THE LAST

QUESTIONS, WE DON'T WANT TO ALLOW A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE TO HOLD UP

THE PROCESS, TO CAUSE STALEMATE, TO CAUSE GRIDLOCK. AND IF YOU'RE GOING

TO REQUIRE TWO-THIRDS OF THE MEMBERS TO VOTE FOR A PLAN, YOU'RE

ALLOWING ONE-THIRD TO STOP PROGRESS. THAT IS SAYING THAT ONE-THIRD OF

THE MEMBERS IN EITHER HOUSE CAN CAUSE A STALEMATE FOR WHATEVER

REASON. AND THERE'S NOTHING IN THE LAW THAT SAYS THAT THEIR REASON HAS

TO HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH REDISTRICTING.

SO, ALL WE ARE DOING IS MAKING THIS MORE OF A

DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. WE'RE REDUCING FROM TWO-THIRDS TO 60 PERCENT,

WHICH IS A GENERALLY ACCEPTED NUMBER, OF THE VOTES THAT WOULD BE

NEEDED TO PASS A PLAN IF THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ON THE

COMMISSION CAN'T AGREE. NOW REMEMBER, THE DEMOCRATS AND THE

REPUBLICANS ARE 50/50 ON THE COMMISSION. SO, THAT'S THE OPPORTUNITY

FOR THE REPUBLICANS TO WORK OUT A DEAL IF THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE

DEMOCRATS RUNNING ALL OVER THEM, THEY GOT 50 PERCENT OF THE VOTE AT

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THAT POINT. BUT THEY COULD CAUSE A STALEMATE, AND WE DON'T WANT TO SEE

THAT SAME STALEMATE TO GO ON AND ON AND ON IN THE LEGISLATURE. AND,

FRANKLY, 60 PERCENT IS A GOOD NUMBER. IT'S ACCEPTED EVERYWHERE ELSE.

SO, I WANT TO SUGGEST TO ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES THAT THIS

IS A VERY GOOD CHANGE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE -- EVEN THE LAST VOTE FOR

PRESIDENT, THE DEMOCRATS STATEWIDE GOT 60 PERCENT AND THE

REPUBLICANS GOT 37 PERCENT. SO, WE ARE GIVING THEM FAR MORE POWER

ON THE COMMISSION AND WE ARE REFLECTING THE VOTE IN THE STATE OF NEW

YORK WHEN IT COMES TO PASSING A REDISTRICTING PLAN IN THE LEGISLATURE.

SO, I COMMEND MR. ZEBROWSKI FOR BRINGING THIS BILL

FORWARD. I THINK HE HAS DEFENDED IT VERY WELL AND I URGE MY COLLEAGUES

TO PASS THIS LEGISLATION AND GIVE THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK A

SAY IN WHETHER THEY WOULD LIKE TO IMPROVE THE PROCESS THAT WE'VE

ALREADY APPROVED. SO, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE

WHEN THE VOTE COMES. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

MS. WALSH: I WOULD FIRST LIKE TO REALLY COMMEND

THE EIGHT MEMBERS OF MY CONFERENCE WHO SPOKE BEFORE ME, BECAUSE

YOU MIGHT SAY GREAT MIND THINK ALIKE, BUT A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT HAD

BEEN MENTIONED WERE THINGS THAT I WAS GOING TO MENTION, AND I STILL

MIGHT, BUT I WAS LAUGHING A LITTLE BIT TO MYSELF THIS MORNING GETTING

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

READY FOR THIS DEBATE AND THINKING ABOUT MY COMMENTS AND YOU KNOW

WHO I WAS THINKING ABOUT WAS OUR FORMER MAJORITY LEADER, JOE

MORELLE, NOW CONGRESSMAN MORELLE. I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW WHEN

HE WOULD START EACH SESSION, HE WOULD TALK ABOUT "DID YOU KNOW," AND

HE WOULD TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE STATE, DIFFERENT

COMMUNITIES, AND KIND OF FUN FACTS ABOUT DIFFERENT -- DIFFERENT

COMMUNITIES AROUND THE STATE. AND SO, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE

ORIGIN OF THE WORD "GERRYMANDER," AND I MENTIONED IT TO MY KIDS AND

ONE OF THEM SAID, GERRY, WHO IS GERRY? YOU KNOW, AND THERE REALLY IS

A GERRY, AS ASSEMBLYMEMBER SMULLEN POINTED OUT. ELBRIDGE GERRY,

WHO WAS ONE OF THE SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, HE

HAS, I GUESS UNFORTUNATELY BEEN BRANDED WITH THE WORD "GERRYMANDER."

SO, GERRYMANDERING HAS BEEN AROUND AS LONG AS THE

REPUBLIC, BACK IN AROUND 1818 IS WHEN THE FIRST KNOWN AMERICAN

EXAMPLE ANYWAY OF GERRYMANDERING OCCURRED. YOU KNOW, OUR

GOVERNMENT IS FOUNDED ON BELIEFS OF A TWO-PARTY SYSTEM AND THE

STRENGTH THAT CAN BE ACHIEVED WHEN OPPOSING VIEWS ARE CONSIDERED AND

WHEN THERE ARE CHECKS AND BALANCES. WHY SHOULD THE PUBLIC CARE

ABOUT THIS BILL? I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S BECAUSE THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT A

BUNCH OF POLITICIANS TRYING TO SAVE THEIR OWN BACON, TRYING TO SAVE THEIR

JOBS. IT'S ABOUT SPEECH, IT'S ABOUT DISSENT. IT'S ABOUT A CONTINUING

PATTERN OF BLATANT CONSOLIDATION OF POLITICAL POWER IN THE HANDS OF ONE

PARTY. IT'S A PATTERN THAT INCLUDES CHANGING OUR CHAMBERS OWN DEBATE

RULES, TO HAVE HALF THE DEBATE TIME THAT WE USED TO, TO THOUGHTFULLY

DEBATE AND CONSIDER LEGISLATION. IT'S ABOUT BIG TECH GIANTS STEPPING IN

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

TO DECIDE WHAT SPEECH HAS VALUE AND WHAT SPEECH SHOULD BE CENSORED.

IT'S ABOUT COMMENTS MADE IN THE MEDIA IN JUST THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS

SUGGESTING THAT THE 75 MILLION OR SO SUPPORTERS OF OUR FORMER PRESIDENT

NEED TO BE DEPROGRAMMED, AS IF THEY -- THE 49 PERCENT OF THE VOTERS ARE

PART OF SOME KIND OF A CULT.

HOW WOULD THE MEMBERS OF THE MAJORITY FEEL IF THE

SHOE WERE ON THE OTHER FOOT, LOOKING AT THIS BILL. WELL, ACTUALLY WE

KNOW HOW BECAUSE WHEN THE SENATE WAS CONTROLLED BY REPUBLICANS,

THERE WAS SUCH AN OUTCRY REGARDING THE UNFAIRNESS OF REDISTRICTING THAT

THE 2014 CHANGES TO THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION WERE CREATED AND

VOTED ON BY NEW YORKERS AND APPROVED; YET, THAT INFINITELY FAIRER

PROCESS WAS NOT EVEN GIVEN ONE ELECTION CYCLE TO WORK. THE POLITICAL

SCIENCE STUDENT IN ME WONDERS WITH UNAFFILIATED VOTERS NOW OVERTAKING

REPUBLICANS IN NUMBERS IN NEW YORK OVER THIS PAST ELECTION CYCLE, IS

THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM ANTIQUATED? IS IT OUTMODED? IS IT SIMPLY TO BE

THE PARTY IN POWER AND THEN JUST EVERYBODY ELSE?

WHEN A LOCAL EDITORIAL BOARD OF A NEWSPAPER WILL NOT

ENDORSE A SINGLE MEMBER OF MY PARTY BECAUSE THEY DON'T SUPPORT

ANYONE WHO WOULD STAND IN THE WAY OF WHAT THEY DEFINED OR VIEW AS

PROGRESS, YOU KNOW, TO THE VOTERS WHO WILL BE CONSIDERING THIS CHANGE

TO OUR CONSTITUTION IN NOVEMBER, I HOPE THAT YOU WAKE UP. YOU

SHOULD CARE. THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS DOES, THEY OPPOSE THIS

BILL. IF THIS GOES FORWARD WITH REDISTRICTING BROUGHT BACK TO A POLITICAL

GERRYMANDERING, BLATANT POWER GRAB FOR THE ONE -- MEMBERS OF ONE

PARTY, THE PARTY IN POWER, YOU MAY VERY WELL LOSE YOUR CURRENT

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE NO MATTER HOW WELL HE SERVES YOU, NO

MATTER HOW WELL HE REFLECTS YOUR CONCERNS AND BELIEFS IN ALBANY, BUT

BECAUSE OF LINES REDRAWN ON A MAP. VOTERS, YOUR VOTE IN 2014 WILL IN

PASSING THE LAST CHANGE TO OUR STATE CONSTITUTION, AND IT'S NEVER BEEN

GIVEN THE CHANCE TO WORK, IT WILL BE SUBVERTED BY THIS LEGISLATION.

SOMEONE ELSE ALREADY MENTIONED, BUT I DID THINK IT

WAS A REFRESHING CHANGE THAT THE PASSAGE OF THIS BILL TODAY IS NOT

HAPPENING UNDER THE COVER OF DARKNESS, AS SO MANY BAD IDEAS IN

ALBANY DO, ALTHOUGH WITH THE INAUGURATION OF PRESIDENT BIDEN EARLIER

TODAY IN TERMS OF THE NEWS CYCLE, IT MIGHT AS WELL BE. IT'S HONESTLY

GALLING TO ME THAT THIS BILL IS BEING MARKETED AND TIED UP WITH A BOW

AND BRANDED AS FAIR, JUST, EQUITABLE, AND APOLITICAL. OH, COME ON. I

WAS BORN AT NIGHT MY DAD USED TO SAY, BUT NOT LAST NIGHT. THIS IS A SAD

DAY FOR ALBANY AND FOR THE SMALL D DEMOCRATIC PROCESS, AND I DISSENT.

I VOTE NO. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: ABSOLUTELY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. ZEBROWSKI, AND

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR RESPONSES TODAY AND YOUR ABILITY TO STAND ON

YOUR FEET FOR HOURS ON END.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU, MY FRIEND.

MR. GOODELL: AND I ASKED SPECIFICALLY TO BE

TOWARD THE END, HOPEFULLY THE END, AS A COURTESY TO ALL OF OUR

COLLEAGUES, AND I HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE OF CROSSING OFF ALL THE QUESTIONS

AS OTHERS ASKED THEM. BUT I THINK THERE'S A QUESTION THAT WASN'T ASKED

AND IF IT WAS, PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES AND REMIND OF THE ANSWER.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SURE.

MR. GOODELL: AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IF THE

COMMISSION DOESN'T VOTE ON ANY PLAN, THAT WOULD TRIGGER SUBSECTION

G.1, THEN THE LEGISLATURE IS FREE TO APPROVE WHATEVER THEY WANT BY A

MAJORITY VOTE; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SO, IF NOTHING IS SENT TO THE

LEGISLATURE, RIGHT.

MR. GOODELL: BY THE DEADLINE.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I GUESS, YOU KNOW, WE'D HAVE TO

DRAW OUT THE HYPOTHETICAL IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND NOTHING IS SENT

AND THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO SEND THEIR WORK PRODUCT OVER, WHATEVER THEY

HAVE THERE, THEN -- LOOK. THAT -- THAT SECTION OF THE STATUTE DOESN'T REFER

SPECIFICALLY TO THE VOTING REQUIREMENTS, BUT IN GENERAL IF ANYTHING

DOESN'T HAVE SEVEN MEMBERS, IT'S 60 PERCENT.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, THE REASON I WAS ASKING IS IF

YOU LOOK ON PAGE 3 AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE, IT SAYS APPROVAL OF

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

LEGISLATION SUBMITTED BY THE INDEPENDENT DISTRICTING COMMITTEE WITH AT

LEAST SEVEN VOTES REQUIRES A MAJORITY, THAT'S FINE. TOP OF PAGE 4, LINE

3 -- I GUESS LINE 5, IF IT'S SUBMITTED BY LESS THAN SEVEN, BUT STILL HAD THE

HIGHEST VOTE PLAN, THEN IT REQUIRES 60 PERCENT, RIGHT? THAT WOULD BE

THE PROPOSAL SUBMITTED PURSUANT TO SECTION -- OR SUBDIVISION G. BUT

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PRIOR PAGE, IT TALKS ABOUT A VOTE WHICH APPEARS TO

BE A MAJORITY VOTE, IF THE SUBMISSION TO THE LEGISLATURE IS PURSUANT TO

SUBDIVISION G.1, AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT G.1, THAT'S WHERE THE

COMMISSION DOESN'T VOTE AT ALL, OR SUBMIT A PROPOSAL AT ALL. SO, I

WOULD ASSUME THAT'S A MAJORITY VOTE, AS WELL?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: AS I SAID, MR. GOODELL, IT

DOESN'T, IN THAT PARTICULAR SECTION STATE THE 60 PERCENT RULE, BUT IF I'M

READING THE STATUTE AS A WHOLE, IT ENVISIONS A PROCESS BY WHICH SEVEN

VOTES GETS 50 PERCENT, LESS THAN SEVEN 60 PERCENT. SO I WOULD INTERPRET

IT TO BE 60 PERCENT.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, THE SAME QUESTION WAS ASKED

BY SENATOR GIANARIS, AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT HE SAID THAT IF

THERE'S NO VOTE BY THE COMMISSION, THE VOTE TO APPROVE A LEGISLATIVE

PLAN CREATED SOLELY BY THE LEGISLATURE WOULD ONLY A REQUIRE MAJORITY

VOTE. SHOULDN'T THIS BE AN ISSUE THAT WE CLARIFY BEFORE WE MOVE

FORWARD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DIDN'T HEAR MR. GIANARIS'

DEBATE; I'M CERTAINLY HAPPY TO DISCUSS THIS WITH HIM, AND WE MAY HAVE

DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS IN STATUTORY LANGUAGE. IT PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE

THE FIRST TIME THE ASSEMBLY AND THE SENATE HAD SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

INTERPRETATIONS OF SOME STATUTORY LANGUAGE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. ONE OF THE TECHNICAL

AMENDMENTS YOU REFERENCED WAS CHANGING THE CONSTITUTION SO THAT

ALIENS ARE INCLUDED IN THE COUNT FOR THE PURPOSE OF ALLOCATING

LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS. AND THE OLD -- THE CURRENT VERSION EXPRESSLY

EXCLUDES ALIENS, THE NEW VERSION INCLUDES ALIENS; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: MY UNDERSTANDING, MR. GOODELL,

IS THAT UNDOCUMENTED FOLKS ARE ALREADY COUNTED WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF

-- SO THAT THIS -- THIS DOESN'T MAKE A SUBSTANTIATIVE CHANGE WITH HOW THE

PROCESS WORKS. IT MERELY NOW MIRRORS WHAT WAS HAPPENING ALREADY.

MR. GOODELL: BUT IN SEVERAL PLACES IN THIS

LEGISLATION, FOR EXAMPLE ON PAGE 8, LINE 21, LINE 31, LINE 38, LINE 40,

LINE 54, I MEAN THE NEXT PAGE, LINE 5, LINE 19, ALL OF THAT REMOVES THE

PROVISION UNDER THE CURRENT CONSTITUTION THAT EXCLUDES THE

CONSIDERATION OF ALIENS WHEN CREATING LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS, RIGHT? I

MEAN, THE CURRENT LANGUAGE HAS EXCLUDED ALIENS AND THE PROPOSED

LANGUAGE WOULD DELETE THAT EXCLUSION, CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THERE ARE SEVERAL PARTS OF THE

REDISTRICTING -- THE CONSTITUTIONAL REDISTRICTING PROVISION AND NOW, AS

AMENDED, THAT HAVE CARRIED OVER FOR DECADES EVEN THOUGH SUBSEQUENT

LAWS HAVE CHANGED, AND SUBSEQUENT, YOU KNOW, FEDERAL MANDATES HAVE

CHANGED AND THOSE TYPE OF THINGS. SO, I WOULD SAY THAT WE WERE,

BECAUSE OF THOSE OTHER CHANGES, THE EXACT LETTER OF THIS PROVISION OF THE

CONSTITUTION WASN'T FOLLOWED IN CERTAIN RESPECTS, AND I THINK THIS IS ONE

OF THEM. SO, THE CHANGE TAKES THE WORD OUT, BUT IN MY OPINION FOLLOWS

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

WHAT IS ALREADY THE PRACTICE IN COUNTING -- IN COUNTING FOR NEW YORK

AND DRAWING DISTRICTS.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, AS YOU KNOW, HAVING LISTENED

TO ME DEBATE FOR YEARS, IT HAS OFTEN BEEN MY OPINION THAT OUR LAWS

DON'T FOLLOW THE LANGUAGE OF THE CONSTITUTION, AND I SUPPOSE THIS

MAKES US BE THE LATEST EXAMPLE OF THAT. THIS NEW BILL CALLS FOR THE

LEGISLATURE TO APPROVE ANY PLAN THAT'S SUBMITTED, PRESUMABLY

SOMETIME BETWEEN JANUARY 1ST AND IF IT'S TURNED DOWN, THEN WE HAVE TO

VOTE AGAIN SOMETIME AFTER JANUARY 15TH, RIGHT? AND PRESUMABLY, WE'LL

HAVE IT DONE BEFORE THE END OF JANUARY; IS THAT WHAT YOU WOULD

ENVISION IN TERMS OF A TIME FRAME?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: FOR 2022, THE FIRST PLAN WOULD

BE SUBMITTED JANUARY 1ST, SECOND BY JANUARY 15TH, IF THERE HAD TO BE A

SECOND. AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'D BE A TIME THEORETICALLY THEREAFTER IF

THAT SECOND PLAN WAS REJECTED. AND JUST TO CLARIFY WITHOUT TAKING TOO

MUCH TIME, IT'S DIFFERENT AFTER 2022, THEN IT'S NOVEMBER 1ST.

MR. GOODELL: BUT JUST LOOKING AT NEXT YEAR.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YEAH.

MR. GOODELL: AND THEN LOOKING AT NEXT YEAR,

WE'RE EXCEPTED TO START CIRCULATING PETITIONS FEBRUARY, AROUND FEBRUARY

24TH ROUGHLY?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DON'T HAVE THE POLITICAL

CALENDAR DIRECTLY IN MY HEAD, BUT THAT SOUNDS CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: SO, ROUGHLY THREE WEEKS AFTER THE

DISTRICT LINES HOPEFULLY ARE APPROVED, WE CIRCULATE PETITIONS. I

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

APOLOGIZE, I MEANT TO JUST ASK THIS BEFORE. IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF

ALIENS, AM I CORRECT THERE'S ABOUT A MILLION LAWFUL PERMANENT RESIDENTS,

THESE WOULD BE PEOPLE THAT ARE LAWFULLY HERE BUT ARE NOT U.S. CITIZENS,

AND AN ESTIMATED 560,000 UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DON'T HAVE THOSE STATISTICS

AVAILABLE TO ME, MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. AGAIN, THANK YOU VERY

MUCH FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND PERSEVERANCE.

ON THE BILL.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: MAKE NO MISTAKE, THIS LEGISLATION

IS NOTHING MORE THAN A RAW POLITICAL POWER GRAB. IT SYSTEMATICALLY

ELIMINATES CRITICAL COMPONENTS OF THE CURRENT CONSTITUTION THAT REQUIRE

BIPARTISANSHIP. IT ELIMINATES THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE CO-EXECUTORS

REPRESENT DIFFERENT PARTIES, ELIMINATED. IT ELIMINATES THE REQUIREMENT

THAT THERE BE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR ANY PROPOSAL AS IT RELATES TO THE

ASSEMBLY REPRESENTATION AND THE SENATE REPRESENTATION. IT REDUCES THE

VOTING REQUIREMENTS TO APPROVE A REAPPORTIONMENT PLAN. DEPENDING

ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES, IT REDUCES IT FROM TWO-THIRDS TO 60 PERCENT, OR

FROM TWO-THIRDS TO A MAJORITY VOTE. AND AS THE SPONSOR ACKNOWLEDGED,

THERE MAY BE SOME AMBIGUITY OVER WHAT HAPPENS IF THE COMMISSION

GIVES US NO PLAN. AND AS I READ THE LAW, AND I WOULD HOPE THAT THE

COURTS AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE, BUT THE SENATE READS THE LAW AS SAYING

THAT IF THERE'S NO VOTE, IT REVERTS TO A MAJORITY VOTE, WHICH MEANS YOU

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

CAN TAKE THE EFFORT OF THIS COMMISSION AND YOU CAN JUST SHRED IT.

WHY IS THAT A REAL POSSIBILITY? BECAUSE AS MY

COLLEAGUE, THE SPONSOR, POINTED OUT, DESPITE A CLEAR APPROPRIATION AND A

TIGHT DEADLINE, THE GOVERNOR HAS REFUSED TO RELEASE THE FUNDS FOR THIS

COMMISSION TO DO ITS WORK. IT IS ABSOLUTELY INEXCUSABLE. IT IS AN

ATTACK ON THE VERY DEMOCRATIC PROCESS BY REFUSING TO ALLOW THIS

COMMISSION TO HAVE THE FUNDS TO MOVE FORWARD, AND THAT'S DELAYING

THE PROCESS. AND THE SECOND THING THAT'S DELAYING THE PROCESS, OF

COURSE, IS COVID AND THE DIFFICULTIES WE HAVE IN DEALING WITH THAT.

AND THEN ON TOP OF THIS, RATHER THAN EXTEND THE TIME FOR THEM TO

COMPLETE THEIR THOUGHTFUL WORK, WE SHORTEN THE TIME. ALL OF WHICH HAS

THE OBVIOUS, LIKELY RESULT OF EITHER HAVING A RUSHED PLAN OR NO PLAN BY

THE DEADLINE.

SO, WHEN IS THIS NEW PLAN SUPPOSED TO BE AVAILABLE

UNDER THIS BILL? SATURDAY, JANUARY 1ST, NEW YEAR'S DAY. SO WE GIVE

THEM THE CENSUS DATA LATE, WE DON'T GIVE THEM ANY FUNDING, AND WE

EXPECT THEM TO MOVE THE DEADLINE UP, MEET ON SATURDAY, PRESUMABLY,

OR MAYBE FRIDAY, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF NEW YEAR'S EVE, INSTEAD OF

ENJOYING NEW YEAR'S EVE, THEY CAN WORK ALL NIGHT AND PRODUCE THIS

PLAN AND IF THEY DON'T, AT LEAST THE SENATE IS OF THE BELIEF THAT ALL THESE

SUPER MAJORITY VOTING IS OUT THE WINDOW AND WE CAN DO WHATEVER THE

HECK WE WANT WITH A MAJORITY VOTE.

AND THEN THERE'S SOME SLEEPERS IN HERE, AREN'T THERE?

THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT MAKES IT CLEAR THAT THOSE WHO ARE

INCARCERATED IN OUR STATE PRISONS WHO CANNOT LAWFULLY VOTE BECAUSE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THEY'RE SERVING TIME FOR A FELONY, ARE COUNTED IN THE DISTRICT IN WHICH

THEY LAST RESIDED FOR THE PURPOSES OF ALLOCATING SEATS. IF YOU CHECK THE

DATA, YOU'LL SEE A SUBSTANTIAL MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE

INCARCERATED IN OUR PRISONS COME FROM NEW YORK CITY. SO, THAT MEANS

WE ARE GOING TO CREDIT ALL THOSE FOLKS TO NEW YORK CITY LEGISLATIVE

DISTRICTS SO THAT THE LEGISLATORS IN THOSE DISTRICTS CAN REPRESENT FEWER

LAW-ABIDING RESIDENTS THAN EVERYONE ELSE. BUT THOSE NUMBERS ARE

SMALL COMPARED TO THE OTHER CHANGE WHICH CHANGES THE CONSTITUTION

WHICH PREVIOUSLY SAID IN ALLOCATING REPRESENTATION THAT WE EXCLUDE

ALIENS. ALIENS INCLUDE THOSE WHO ARE HERE LEGALLY WITH PERMANENT

RESIDENT STATUS, OR A GREEN CARD, WHO ARE WORKING, ABOUT A MILLION

PEOPLE IN NEW YORK STATE. AND THERE'S ANOTHER HALF A MILLION PEOPLE,

OVER HALF A MILLION PEOPLE, OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. SO, WHAT'S THAT

MEAN? BY THE WAY, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF THOSE IN MY DISTRICT. DON'T

HAVE A LOT OF THOSE FOLKS UPSTATE. THEY TEND TO BE LOCATED IN NEW

YORK CITY AND OUR LARGE, METROPOLITAN AREAS. SO, WHAT'S THAT MEAN? IF

EACH OF US IS REPRESENTING 100-AND, YOU PICK THE NUMBER, 130,000, THAT

MEANS THERE'S TEN TO 15 SEATS THAT ARE BEING CREATED BY THAT CHANGE IN

NEW YORK STATE -- IN NEW YORK CITY REPRESENTING PEOPLE WHO CAN'T

VOTE, WHO HAVE NO CITIZENSHIP.

SO, WE'RE BEING ASKED TODAY TO APPROVE LEGISLATION

THAT ELIMINATES CRITICAL BIPARTISANSHIP, THAT ELIMINATES THE TIME FRAME

AND -- OR SHORTENS THE TIME FRAME UNDER A CRITICAL TIME PERIOD, AND

PROVIDES FOR REPRESENTATION FOR ABOUT 1.5 MILLION PEOPLE WHO ARE IN

NEW YORK WHO ARE NOT CITIZENS AND CANNOT VOTE. AND FOR THOSE

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

REASONS AND OTHERS, I WILL JOIN MY COLLEAGUES IN OPPOSING THIS

LEGISLATION. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND, AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY

COLLEAGUE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. FIRST, I WANT TO APPRECIATE MR. ZEBROWSKI FOR THE SECOND YEAR

IN A ROW, ACTUALLY, DEBATING THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT I, WHO HAVE

LIVED THROUGH A NUMBER OF REAPPORTIONMENT OPPORTUNITIES AND SEE THEIR

IMPACTS, PARTICULARLY ON COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, I APPRECIATE YOUR

EFFORTS ON THIS TODAY, BECAUSE I DO UNDERSTAND GERRYMANDERING. I LIVE

IN AN AREA WHERE AT LEAST TWO SENATORIAL DISTRICTS HAVE FOR DECADES BEEN

GERRYMANDERED. THEY LOOK LIKE SPAGHETTI GOING ALONG THE BORDER TO

TAKE SOME VOTERS OUT AND TO PUT SOME VOTERS IN. I LOOK FORWARD TO A

BIPARTISAN PANEL OF PEOPLE WHO CAN COME IN WITH A MANNER TO FAIRLY

DRAW DISTRICT LINES.

I'VE BEEN IN A COUNTY LEGISLATURE WHEN THERE WERE TEN

OF US AND SEVEN REPUBLICANS, BUT THEN THEY CHANGED THE RULES THROUGH

THE COURTS, JUST OUT OF -- NO, WE'RE NOT USING THOSE NUMBERS, WE USING A

WEIGHTED VOTE. AND SO, THERE'S ALWAYS A WAY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO

ELIMINATE PEOPLE FOR A NARROW OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE, OR TO GIVE THE VOTERS

WHO YOU WANT THEM TO VOTE FOR AS OPPOSED TO ALLOW THEM TO VOTE FOR

THE PERSON OF THEIR CHOICE.

NOW, WE'VE BEEN CELEBRATING DR. KING THIS MONTH,

AND WE WILL FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE MONTH. WELL, HOPEFULLY SOME OF

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

US CELEBRATE HIM ALL YEAR, BUT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE WORK THAT HE DID

WAS ABOUT DEMANDING THAT PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO VOTE. I DON'T HAVE TO

TELL ANYBODY IN THIS CHAMBERS OR ANYBODY WHO WAS WITH -- CAN HEAR

MY VOICE HOW EXTENSIVE OF A PROCESS THIS DEMOCRACY HAS GONE

THROUGH TO DISENFRANCHISE AND ELIMINATE PEOPLE'S RIGHTS TO VOTE. IT HAS

BEEN CONSISTENT. SO NOW WE'RE PUSHING TOWARDS A SYSTEM THAT IS

SIMPLY ABOUT EQUITY AND FAIRNESS, AND WE GIVE ALL SORTS OF REASONS WHY

THAT CAN'T HAPPEN. ALL OF A SUDDEN, MAJORITY RULES DOESN'T MATTER

ANYMORE. NORMALLY IT DOES. NOW, WE NEED TO CHANGE THE RULES. BUT

THE SAME LINES, MR. SPEAKER, THAT WE WERE ALL ELECTED ON WITHIN THE LAST

TEN YEARS ARE THE LINES THAT ELECTED PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THESE CHAMBERS

TODAY. NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE CAN'T TRUST NEW YORKERS TO MAKE

THE RIGHT DECISION TO SEND WHO THEY WANT TO THE SENATE AND WHO THEY

WANT TO THE ASSEMBLY. I CAN. AND I THINK WE CAN TRUST THEM TO MAKE A

DECISION ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE WITH REAPPORTIONMENT. I THINK

IT'S FAIR, IT'S EQUITABLE, AND WHEN IT GOES TO THE VOTERS THEY'RE GOING TO

SAY, WE DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE ANY MORE OF THAT GERRYMANDERING THAT'S

HAPPENED IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK FOR DECADES. WE WANT THAT OVER.

THIS IS THE WAY TO DO IT. AND IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR A GOOD OPPORTUNITY

TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN, THERE'S 50 PERCENT ON THIS SIDE AND THERE'S 50

PERCENT ON THAT SIDE. EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT 50 PERCENT IN TERMS OF

REGISTRATION AND/OR IN TERMS OF REPRESENTATION. HOW MUCH FAIRER CAN

YOU BE? WHAT ELSE DO WE NEED TO DO TO MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE IN

CONTROL AND WE'RE NOT? THAT SHOULDN'T BE THE GOAL ANYWAY. THE GOAL

SHOULD BE HOW CAN WE MAKE IT BETTER FOR NEW YORKERS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

IN THIS PAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, MR. SPEAKER, MORE

PEOPLE -- MORE NEW YORKERS VOTED THAN EVER IN THE HISTORY. MORE

PEOPLE IN AMERICA VOTED EVER IN THE HISTORY. EIGHT MILLION, 500-OR-SO

THOUSAND PEOPLE VOTED. MORE OF THEM WERE DEMOCRAT THAN THERE WERE

REPUBLICANS, BUT IT WASN'T 50/50, BUT THAT'S OKAY. WE STILL NEED TO GET

TO A PLACE WHERE WE CAN PUT TOGETHER NUMBERS THAT WILL MAKE SENSE FOR

REPRESENTATION IN OUR LEGISLATIVE BODIES, AND OUR CONGRESSIONAL

BODIES, AS WELL.

NOW I WILL MENTION THIS. YOU KNOW, WE -- THE

NUMBERS THAT WE USE ARE BASED ON THE CENSUS. I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW

HARD THE FIGHT WAS JUST IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO COUNT THE CENSUS. AT THE

FEDERAL LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT THIS YEAR - NOT THIS YEAR, 2020, 2019 - SO

MANY EFFORTS WERE PUT OUT TO TRY TO STOP THAT COUNT AND NOT TO HAVE THE

COUNT RIGHT. NOW, I'M NOT GOING TO BLAME THAT ON THE PANDEMIC,

BECAUSE WE WERE ALREADY IN THE PANDEMIC. IT WASN'T A HOAX, IT WAS

REAL. AND BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT EVER SINCE BIBLICAL DAYS, SOCIETY

COUNTED THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THEIR COMMUNITIES. IT'S

EVER SINCE BIBLICAL DAYS. THESE DAYS ARE NO DIFFERENT. WE STILL NEEDED

A COUNT IN SPITE OF THE PANDEMIC. SO, WE SHOULD HAVE HAD SUPPORT

FROM THE FEDERAL LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT. WE SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO FIGHT

TO GET IT EXTENDED AND ARGUE WITH PEOPLE TO STOP THEM FROM CUTTING IT

OFF SHORT. WE SHOULD'VE HAD HELP TO GET THESE NUMBERS DONE, BUT WE

DIDN'T AND WE MADE IT BY THAT, AS WELL, MR. SPEAKER.

SO, AGAIN, MANY OF US HAVE LIVED THROUGH THE EFFORTS

OF DENYING PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE BECAUSE THEY WERE INCARCERATED,

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

DENYING THEM THE RIGHT TO VOTE BECAUSE OF WHERE THEY LIVED, OR DENYING

THEM THE RIGHT TO VOTE BECAUSE OF THE COMPLEXION OR THE COLOR OF THEIR

SKIN. THAT'S OVER. THIS IS A NEW DAY. THIS IS A FAIR DAY. EVERYBODY

GETS AN OPPORTUNITY, REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU LIVE, WHAT THE COLOR OF

YOUR SKIN IS OR WHETHER OR NOT YOU'VE BEEN INCARCERATED BEFORE.

AND SO, MR. SPEAKER, AGAIN, I WANT TO COMMEND MR.

ZEBROWSKI AND I WANT TO ENCOURAGE ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES, NEW

COLLEAGUES, OLD COLLEAGUES, SENIOR COLLEAGUES, REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES,

DEMOCRATIC COLLEAGUES, THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. WITH THAT, MR.

SPEAKER, I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE FOR THIS ONE

AND LET'S MOVE FORWARD, AND LET'S MOVE THE STATE FORWARD. THAT'S WHAT

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE WANT, THEY'VE ALREADY SPOKEN TO US ONCE. LET'S

GO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI TO

CLOSE.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANKS, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT TO

THANK THE MAJORITY LEADER FOR HER KIND WORDS. I SHOULD PROBABLY JUST

SIT DOWN WHEN YOU GET A COMPLIMENT LIKE THAT FROM THE MAJORITY

LEADER, BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE THAT CHANCE DEBATING THE BILL TO

SUM UP MY OWN ARGUMENTS AND THOUGHTS BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME I'M

ANSWERING QUESTIONS, AND I THANK MY COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF

THE AISLE FOR THEIR QUESTIONS TODAY.

A FEW THINGS, MR. SPEAKER. THERE WAS A REPORT BY THE

WASHINGTON POST IN 2014 THAT TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE REPUBLICAN

STATE LEGISLATURES GERRYMANDERING: NORTH CAROLINA, LOUISIANA,

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

VIRGINIA, PENNSYLVANIA, OHIO AND ALABAMA. AND IT SUGGESTED THAT 11

MORE SEATS THAN WERE EXPECTED FROM THE TOTAL VOTE CHAIR ACTUALLY WENT

TO 11 MORE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS. AND I'M NOT GOING TO

PRETEND THAT IT'S JUST A REPUBLICAN PROCESS. WE'VE CERTAINLY SEE

GERRYMANDERING FROM -- FROM BOTH PARTIES. BUT I WOULD SUGGEST, MR.

SPEAKER, THAT IF I SUBMITTED THIS BIPARTISAN PANEL WITH AN EQUAL NUMBER

OF DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS COMING UP WITH MAPS TO THOSE STATES, I

WOULD GET LAUGHED OUT OF THE ROOM IF THEY THOUGHT THE GOAL WAS TO

GERRYMANDER THE MAPS. THE FACT REMAINS THAT THIS PANEL HAS AN EQUAL

NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS AND TWO NON-AFFILIATED

DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, AN EQUAL NUMBER, DESPITE THE FACT THAT

THERE ARE SIX MILLION OR SO DEMOCRATS IN THE STATE, IF MY NUMBERS ARE

RIGHT, 2.7 MILLION REPUBLICANS. AS I SAID BEFORE, TAKING MR. NORRIS'

NUMBER OF THE ASSEMBLY REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE REPRESENTING 5.5 OUT

OF THE 19.5 MILLION PEOPLE IN NEW YORK STATE, DESPITE THAT FACT AND

VAST DEMOCRATIC MAJORITIES IN BOTH HOUSES, THIS AMENDMENT BROUGHT

BEFORE THE HOUSE KEEPS THAT EQUAL NUMBER OF MEMBERS.

IT ALSO REMAINS ENSHRINED IN OUR CONSTITUTION THE

FOLLOWING PRINCIPLES, THAT THE DISTRICTS SHALL NOT DENY OR ABRIDGE THE

RIGHTS OF RACIAL OR MINORITY LANGUAGE GROUPS. TO THE EXTENT

PRACTICABLE, DISTRICTS SHALL CONTAIN AS NEARLY AN EQUAL NUMBER OF

INHABITANTS, SHALL CONTAIN TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE CONTIGUOUS

TERRITORIES AND BE AS COMPACT AND FORM AS PRACTICABLE. IT SHALL NOT BE

DRAWN TO DISCOURAGE COMPETITION, OR FOR THE PURPOSE OF FAVORING OR

DISFAVORING INCUMBENTS OR OTHER POLITICAL CANDIDATES OR PARTIES. THAT'S

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

ENSHRINED IN THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BEFORE THE HOUSE.

MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT IF THE GOAL OF

MYSELF AS THE SPONSOR OF THE AMENDMENT OR THE ASSEMBLY MAJORITY

WAS A POWER GRAB, AS YOU'VE HEARD FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE

TODAY, WE ARE DOING A POOR JOB AT IT. A POWER GRAB WOULD SUGGEST THAT

WE SHOULD HAVE PARTICIPATION ON THIS PANEL FROM THE NUMBER OF

LEGISLATORS FROM EACH PARTY COMMENSURATE WITH THE NUMBER OF ELECTED

TO THE HOUSE, OR THE NUMBER -- THE NUMBER OF ENROLLED DEMOCRATS OR

REPUBLICANS OUT THERE IN THE STATE, WE COULD MAKE THAT ARGUMENT, BUT

WE'RE NOT MAKING THAT ARGUMENT.

A LOT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT TODAY ABOUT WHETHER THE

PANELS ARE INDEPENDENT OR NOT INDEPENDENT. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS

THE STATE LEGISLATURE IS NO LONGER DRAWING THESE MAPS. PREVIOUSLY, THE

STATE LEGISLATURE DID SO IT'S CERTAINLY INDEPENDENT THERE, BUT WOULD MY

COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE CONSENT TO A PROCESS WHERE TEN

RANDOM NEW YORKERS ARE SELECTED, EVEN IF IT'S WITH THE BACKGROUND

THAT I THINK MR. NORRIS SUGGESTED? YOU WOULD LIKELY GET A MAJORITY OF

THOSE FOLKS TO BE DEMOCRATS, AND A MINORITY IF YOU TAKE THAT

PERCENTAGE, SIX MILLION TO 2.7 MILLION, YOU'D GET A, YOU KNOW, SIX

DEMOCRATS AND 2.7 REPUBLICANS ON THE PANEL. IS THAT WHAT MY

COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE WOULD ARGUE FOR? I -- I WOULD

SUGGEST THAT THE DEBATE TODAY WOULD BE LONGER AND MORE STRENUOUS IF

WE CAME UP WITH A RANDOMIZED SELECTION PROCESS, BECAUSE IT WOULD

RESULT IN MORE DEMOCRATS IN MANY WAYS ON THAT PANEL THAT'S DRAWING

THE MAPS THAN REPUBLICANS, BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT WE DO, MR. SPEAKER.

NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

THERE IS EQUAL REPRESENTATION. EQUAL REPRESENTATION.

WHAT WE DO DO IS WE CHANGE THE ABILITY OF ONE

LEGISLATIVE LEADER TO VETO AN OTHERWISE FAIR AND INDEPENDENT MAP. AND

THERE'S AN ASSUMPTION IN THE DEBATE LAST YEAR AND THE DEBATE THIS YEAR

THAT SOMEHOW, THAT SOMEHOW BY ELIMINATING THIS, IT IS THE POWER GRAB.

BUT THAT LEGISLATIVE LEADER, MR. SPEAKER, COULD BE THE SENATE MINORITY

LEADER WHO LIKES THE CURRENT SENATE MAPS, OR IT COULD BE THE SENATE

MAJORITY LEADER. IT COULD BE THE ASSEMBLY MINORITY LEADER, OR IT

COULD BE THE SPEAKER. IF YOU ASK ME, MR. SPEAKER, WHICH OF THE TWO

PARTIES WOULD HAVE MORE OF AN IMPETUS TO VETO AN OTHERWISE FAIR MAP

VOTED ON BY SEVEN MEMBERS OF THE PANEL? I WOULD SUGGEST IT'D BE THE

TWO LEADERS THAT HAVE CURRENTLY ENJOYED THE RECENT ELECTORAL SUCCESS.

THERE'S 107, I BELIEVE, DEMOCRATS IN THIS BODY. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY

OUT THE HYPOTHETICAL, THE SPEAKER COULD CERTAINLY, OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE,

COULD VETO A MAP. WELL, 107 SEATS OUT OF 150, THAT IS PRETTY GOOD. ONE

OF MY COLLEAGUES BEFORE TALKED ABOUT IF YOU WANT TO WIN AN ELECTION,

KNOCK ON DOORS. AND I WOULD SAY THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE A

PRETTY GOOD JOB OF KNOCKING ON DOORS. AND IN ALL DUE RESPECT TO MY

REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES, YOU'VE DONE A GOOD JOB OF KNOCKING ON DOORS,

TOO.

WE'VE ALL GOTTEN HERE THROUGH HARD WORK IN

REPRESENTING OUR CONSTITUENTS. BUT I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THE NOTION

THAT THAT VETO, BY ELIMINATING THAT VETO IT SOMEHOW ONLY

DISENFRANCHISES OR ONLY HINDERS THE ABILITY OF THE MINORITY. I COULD

MAKE THE SAME EXACT ARGUMENT THAT THE SPEAKER OR THE CURRENT SENATE

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MAJORITY LEADER COULD USE THAT VETO, AS WELL. AND THAT'S WHY, MR.

SPEAKER, THE MEMO BEFORE THAT I CITED, AND --IN -- IN -- IN -- WITH ALL

DUE CANDOR, YOU KNOW, THE MEMO TALKS ABOUT THEY WOULD GO FURTHER

AND HAVE OTHER REFORMS. BUT THAT IS WHY THE MEMO, ISSUED BY THREE

GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AND MY

COLLEAGUES CITED ANOTHER MEMO BY TWO THAT DISAGREE, AND I'VE SPOKEN

TO THOSE GROUPS, SAYS THAT, THE PROPOSAL BEING ADVANCED BY THE

LEGISLATURE DOES AWAY WITH PARTISAN CO-DIRECTORS OF THE REDISTRICTING

COMMISSION AND ELIMINATES THE PARTISAN COMMISSION VOTING RULES.

BECAUSE IT'S TOO PARTISAN, MR. SPEAKER, AND IT COULD BE TOO PARTISAN AS A

SWORD FOR THE MINORITY, THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE, OR IT COULD BE TOO

PARTISAN FOR THE MAJORITY OR THE DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE. SO, I GIVE THE

SPEAKER GREAT CREDIT FOR SUPPORTING AN AMENDMENT BEFORE THE HOUSE

TODAY, DESPITE HAVING A LARGE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS THAT DOES

NOTHING TO CHANGE THE PANEL MAKEUP, DOES NOTHING TO CHANGE THE

PRINCIPLES THAT I MENTIONED BEFORE. ENSHRINED IN THE CONSTITUTION WILL

BE THAT PRINCIPLE OF, THAT LINE SHALL NOT BE DRAWN TO DISCOURAGE

COMPETITION FOR THE PURPOSE OF FAVORING OR DISFAVORING INCUMBENTS OR

OTHER POLITICAL CANDIDATES OR PARTIES.

COME ON, MR. SPEAKER. AT SOME POINT WE'VE GOT TO

USE A LITTLE BIT OF COMMON SENSE. IF WE WERE TRYING A DEMOCRATIC

POWER GRAB, THIS IS NOT HOW WE WOULD DO IT. AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS

DOES A LOT. I FOCUSED ON ANSWERING SOME OF THE QUESTIONS, BUT IT DOES A

LOT. IT CHANGES THINGS SO THAT IT TAKES OUT CERTAIN LANGUAGE THAT'S NO

LONGER APPLICABLE, WAYS THAT WE NO LONGER DRAW DISTRICTS. IT CHANGES

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THE TIME FRAME, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT. BUT IT ALSO, MR. SPEAKER, IS

MORE FAIR. IT TAKES OUT A PARTISAN POISON PILL THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN

IN THERE.

NOW TO ADDRESS, JUST LASTLY, MY COLLEAGUE'S COMMENTS

OF THE VOTERS -- THE VOTERS IN 2014 WERE GIVEN ONE OPTION, THEY WEREN'T

GIVEN THIS OPTION AND THAT OPTION, OR TEN OPTIONS OR FIVE OPTIONS, THEY

WERE GIVEN ONE OPTION AND THEY DECIDED THAT THAT AMENDMENT WAS

BETTER THAN THE STATUS QUO. WE COULD HAVE AMENDED HERE TODAY AND

TRIED TO GO BACK TO THE STATUS QUO IF WE WERE GOING TO DO A POWER GRAB.

BUT THAT'S WHAT THE VOTERS VOTED ON IN 2014, THEY VOTED ON THAT

AMENDMENT. SO THIS IS NOW BEING PUT FORTH -- IF IT PASSES TODAY, IT WILL

BE PUT FORTH TO THE VOTERS AGAIN. THEY WILL HAVE THEIR OPPORTUNITY, WE

RESPECT THE VOTERS AND THEY WILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO VOTE AT A FULL

REFERENDUM, OUR PROPOSAL TO IMPROVE UPON THE PROCESS. IMPROVE UPON

THE PROCESS AND MAKE SURE THAT NO LEGISLATIVE LEADERS' APPOINTEES ARE

ABLE TO VETO AN OTHERWISE VALID, FAIR, AND INDEPENDENT PLAN PUT FORTH BY

THE PANEL WHICH IT ENVISIONED IS SET UP TO ACHIEVE A MAJORITY OF FOLKS

THAT CAN'T COME FROM EITHER PARTY, IS PUT FORTH TO ACHIEVE SEVEN VOTES

OUT OF TEN, THAT'S WHAT THIS ENVISIONS AND THAT'S WHAT WE HOPE TO

ACHIEVE, A BIPARTISAN AND FAIR INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING PROCESS, AND

WE ELIMINATE WHAT IS A PARTISAN POISON PILL.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 8, SENATE BILL NO. S515. THIS IS A PARTY

VOTE. ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE

CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY

LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS IS A PARTY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

COLLEAGUES DESIRING TO CAST THEIR VOTE A DIFFERENT WAY, PLEASE FEEL FREE

TO CONTACT THE OFFICES AND WE'LL BE HAPPY TO SO REFLECT THAT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BURKE TO EXPLAIN

HIS VOTE.

MR. BURKE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD

CERTAINLY LIKE TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR A JOB WELL DONE TODAY. LAST

YEAR WHEN THIS VOTE CAME UP, I FELT THE BILL CAME FORWARD TOO QUICKLY

AND I DIDN'T GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO FULLY REVIEW IT AND VET IT, SO I VOTED

AGAINST IT ON PROCESS. THIS YEAR AFTER HAVING THAT TIME, I'M COMFORTABLE

WITH IT. SO, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, BUT I WANT TO MAKE THE

POINT THAT I DID MAKE SOME OF IT LAST YEAR THAT THIS SORT OF OUTRAGE ABOUT

-- ABOUT THIS BILL AND THE IDEA THAT WE'RE GERRYMANDERING TO TAKE POWER,

YOU KNOW, I FIND A LITTLE DISINGENUOUS. FOR A PARTY THAT HAS -- HAS

THRIVED OFF OF BEING IN POWER BY GETTING LESS VOTES ACROSS THIS COUNTRY

AND IN MULTIPLE STATES, YOU KNOW, RED-MAPPING, OPERATION REDMAP

IS A KNOWN REPUBLICAN TACTIC TO DISENFRANCHISE MINORITY VOTERS IN THE

SOUTH AND EMPOWER REPUBLICANS. SO, THIS INDIGNATION NOW, YOU

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KNOW, I JUST -- I DON'T WANT ANYONE FALLING FOR IT. IT'S DISINGENUOUS AND,

YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GIVING A PANEL AND GIVING OUTSIZED

POWER TO THE MINORITY PARTY, BUT IT'S NOT JUST THE MINORITY PARTY. IF THE

DEMOCRATS ARE THE SUPERMAJORITY IN BOTH HOUSES, THEN THE MINORITY

PARTY IS THE SUPER MINORITY PARTY IN BOTH HOUSES, AND THROUGH VOTER

REGISTRATION. SO, WE'RE GIVING THEM OUTSIZED POWER, WE'RE ACTUALLY

DOING THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY

IN THEIR EFFORT TO TAKE POWER BY GETTING LESS VOTES.

SO, I COMMEND THE SPONSOR. I COMMEND THOSE WHO

ARE ADVOCATING FOR DEMOCRACY AND MAKING A MORE FAIR PROCESS. YOU

KNOW, I THINK WE'RE THE ONLY, YOU KNOW, POLITICAL GROUP THAT WOULD

SOMEHOW TRY AND LIMIT OUR POWER RATHER THAN TAKING MORE WHEN GIVEN

THE OPPORTUNITY. SO, I'M HAPPY TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BURKE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. CAHILL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. CAHILL, WE'RE NOT HEARING YOU.

WE'LL MOVE ON. IF YOU CAN GET YOUR SOUND FIXED, WE'LL

BRING YOU BACK.

MR. BYRNE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BYRNE, YOU MUST UNMUTE. THERE WE GO.

MR. BYRNE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JUST

WANTED TO MAKE ONE POINT TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I OPPOSED THIS

LEGISLATION LAST YEAR AND WHILE I RESPECT ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES AND WE

HAVE VERY DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON CERTAIN POLICIES, AND WE HAVE PLENTY OF

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ROOM TO DISAGREE, I DON'T BELIEVE THE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED BY MY

COLLEAGUES WERE DISINGENUOUS. I DON'T BELIEVE THE CONCERNS RAISED BY

THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS IN NEW YORK STATE WERE DISINGENUOUS

AND I WILL BE VOTING NO ON THIS PROPOSAL. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RODRIGUEZ TO

EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. RODRIGUEZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE

OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE AND, OF COURSE, THANK YOU TO THE

SPONSOR OF THE BILL FOR, AGAIN, DOING A TREMENDOUS JOB IN TERMS OF

ARGUING THE MERITS OF THIS IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION. I CERTAINLY

AGREE WITH THE ARGUMENTS THAT WERE MADE IN TERMS OF US TAKING THE

NECESSARY STEPS, THAT WE HAVE A PROCESS THAT CANNOT BE LOGJAMMED IN

LIGHT OF WHAT WE KNOW IS GOING TO BE A PARTICULARLY CONDENSED PERIOD

OF TIME IN WHICH WE HAVE TO RECEIVE CENSUS DATA AND -- AND NEED TO

HAVE A QUICK EVALUATION OF THAT DATA TO BE ABLE TO PERFORM THE

RESPONSIBILITIES, IT'S IMPORTANT TO MOVE THE TIMELINE UP SO THAT WE HAVE

THE OPPORTUNITY TO EVALUATE THOSE AND VOTE ON THEM AS A LEGISLATURE.

SO, THAT IS ONE OF THE IMPORTANT REASONS THAT I THINK

THIS LEGISLATION MUST COME FORWARD AND I THINK, OF COURSE, IN THE END

ULTIMATELY THE VOTERS WILL DECIDE IN A REFERENDUM ON THIS -- ON THIS --

ON THESE PARTICULAR CHANGES. ONE OTHER COMMENT IS THAT I THINK, YOU

KNOW, I CONTINUE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE RHETORIC AROUND ALIENS AND,

YOU KNOW, I THINK -- I THOUGHT THIS WAS AN ISSUE THAT WE DEALT WITH IN

MANY OTHER REFERENCES ACROSS OTHER PIECES OF LEGISLATION. YOU KNOW,

BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK

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WHO ARE RESIDING HERE, WHO ARE RECEIVING SERVICES, WHO ARE OUR

NEIGHBORS IN OUR PARTS OF OUR COMMUNITIES, AND WHEN WE CONTINUE TO

REFER TO THEM WHETHER IT'S A LEGAL TERM OR NOT, AS ALIENS, I CONTINUE TO BE

OFFENDED BY THAT. I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE TALK -- FOR

THAT REASON, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I THANK THE SPONSOR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. SMULLEN.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

SPEAKER. I REALLY NEEDED TO COME BACK AND EXPLAIN MY VOTE BECAUSE

SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE JUST BEEN MADE. YOU KNOW, THIS TO

ME IS A VERY REGRETTABLE DAY FOR NEW YORK STATE BECAUSE THIS ISSUE HAS

BEEN AROUND FOR SO LONG. IT'S REALLY OBVIOUS THAT THIS IS GOING TO

ENSHRINE PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING INTO THE STATE CONSTITUTION WITH

ONE-PARTY RULE. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE VOTES TO DO IT DOESN'T MAKE

IT RIGHT. IT'S THE OPPOSITE OF GOOD GOVERNANCE AND, IN MY MIND, WILL

EFFECTIVELY DISENFRANCHISE A LARGE GROUP OF VOTERS FOR AN ENTIRE DECADE.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY REASON TO CHANGE THIS LAW THAT

HASN'T EVEN BEEN TESTED OR HASN'T EVEN BEEN TRIED OUT FOR NEXT YEAR AS

WE ENTER THE ELECTION SEASON. AND I REALLY DO, I ENCOURAGE ALL GOOD

GOVERNMENT GROUPS TO STAND UP AND TAKE UP THIS ISSUE IN PUBLIC. IT'S

REALLY THE TIME FOR NEW YORKERS WHO THIS WILL AFFECT TO WAKE UP TO THIS

ISSUE. I CAN'T IMAGINE A WORSE PROGNOSIS FOR NEW YORK IN THE FUTURE

BECAUSE OF THIS BILL. I'VE ONLY BEEN IN THE LEGISLATURE A COUPLE YEARS,

BUT I'VE SEEN A DIVIDE THAT'S GROWING BIGGER. THIS REALLY FURTHER DIVIDES

THE STATE BETWEEN THE DENSE URBAN AREAS AND THE AREAS IN UPSTATE NEW

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YORK, AND I'LL REALLY THINK THAT'S REGRETTABLE IN SO MANY WAYS. THANK

YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. KELLES TO EXPLAIN

HER VOTE.

YOU HAVE TO UNMUTE YOURSELF. YOU WERE UNMUTED

AND THEN YOU MUTED. THERE WE GO. THANK YOU.

MS. KELLES: THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER,

AND I WANTED TO THANK ASSEMBLYMEMBER ZEBROWSKI, AS WELL, BOTH FOR

YOUR WORK ON THIS, BUT ALSO FOR YOUR INCREDIBLY ARTICULATE, INTELLIGENT,

AND THOUGHTFUL CLOSING STATEMENTS. I VERY MUCH APPRECIATED THEM.

THE REASON THAT I SUPPORT THIS, I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THAT WHAT I

BELIEVE IS AN EFFORT TO CHANGE A LAW THAT WAS FUNDAMENTALLY BIASED, AND

TO SAY THAT WE ARE NOT GIVING THAT EFFORT TO SEE HOW IT DOES, TO MOVE

FORWARD WITH SOMETHING THAT IS BIASED I THINK IN AND OF ITSELF WOULD BE

IRRESPONSIBLE. I APPRECIATE THAT THE COMMISSION IS BALANCED AND -- AND

FAIR, AND THAT WE ARE GIVING THEM AN EFFORT TO DISCUSS AND ARGUE AND

DEBATE THIS ISSUE AND BRING IT FORWARD TO THE ENTIRE LEGISLATURE.

I DID WANT TO ADD MY -- MY VOICE TO WHAT

ASSEMBLYMAN RODRIGUEZ SAID. I PERSONALLY ALSO FIND IT DEEPLY

TROUBLING THAT WE ARE STILL USING THE WORD "ALIEN." I WANT THAT TO SINK IN

FOR ALL OF US, THE WORD "ALIEN," AS IF THEY ARE NOT OF THIS PLANET. THAT IS

WHAT THAT TERM IS OFTEN REFERRED TO. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A LEGAL TERM,

BUT THE IMPLICATION AND THE EMOTION BEHIND IT IS ANTIQUATED AND DEEPLY

RACIST, AND I WOULD REALLY HOPE THAT WE CAN MOVE BEYOND THIS TERM.

MR. GOODELL: MR. SPEAKER.

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MS. KELLES: AS FAR AS THE --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ONE MINUTE. MR.

GOODELL, WHY DO YOU RISE?

MR. GOODELL: WHEN WE QUOTE THE EXACT LANGUAGE

THAT'S CONTAINED IN THE CONSTITUTION AND IS BEING AMENDED BY THIS BILL,

IT IS NOT DEEPLY RACIST. AND SO, I WOULD ASK THE MEMBER NOT TO SUGGEST

THAT ANY MEMBER WHO IS QUOTING THE EXACT LANGUAGE IS RACIST.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL, MS.

KELLES WAS REALLY QUOTING THE USE OF THE TERM THAT WAS IN THE

CONSTITUTION --

MS. KELLES: CORRECT, THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: -- SO THAT'S WHAT SHE

WAS REFERRING TO. SHE WASN'T REFERRING TO ANY MEMBER ON THE FLOOR.

THERE IS A GENERAL MOVE AROUND THE COUNTRY TO TRY AND GET AWAY FROM

THE TERM "ALIEN." SHE'S ENTIRELY CONSISTENT WITH THAT, AND I'M SURE IT'S

SOMETHING THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WILL ALSO AGREE TO.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, THEN PERHAPS --

MS. KELLES: AND I AM ENCOURAGED BY OUR JOINT

EFFORT --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ONE MINUTE, MS.

KELLES, PLEASE. THANK YOU.

MR. GOODELL: MR. SPEAKER, THEN PERHAPS WE

SHOULD AMEND THE LANGUAGE IN THE CONSTITUTION, BUT IT IS INAPPROPRIATE

TO SUGGEST THAT ANYONE WHO USES THE EXACT QUOTE IS IN ANY WAY RACIST.

THANK YOU, SIR.

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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WELL, I THINK SHE,

AGAIN, WAS REFERRING TO IT IN THE CONSTITUTION, SIR, NOT NECESSARILY TO

ANYONE'S USE OF IT. I'M SORRY, MS. KELLES, PLEASE PROCEED.

MS. KELLES: AND I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT I

AM DISCUSSING WHY I AM SUPPORTING THIS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AND MY

APPRECIATION AND PRIDE THAT WE, AS A BODY, ARE REMOVING THIS LANGUAGE

AND THAT IT IS EVEN CONSIDERED TECHNICAL BECAUSE UNDOCUMENTED

IMMIGRANTS, LET'S JUST NOTE THEY PAY TAXES. THEY ARE COUNTED. THEY ARE

RESIDENTS. THEY ARE INTEGRATED PARTS OF OUR COMMUNITY AND SHOULD BE

RECOGNIZED AND APPRECIATED AS SUCH. SO, I -- I -- THAT IS ANOTHER REASON

THAT I AM IN SUPPORT OF THIS.

I ALSO APPRECIATE THE -- THE SECTION THAT IDENTIFIES FOR

PRISON -- PEOPLE WHO ARE INCARCERATED, THAT THEY ARE COUNTED FROM

WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED OR WHERE THEY LIVE, AND NOT WHERE THEY ARE

CURRENTLY IN A PRISON. I THINK THAT WE ALL ARE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT

PRISONS THEMSELVES ARE HIGHLY CONCENTRATED IN THE UPSTATE WHERE A LOT

OF THE PEOPLE COME FROM DOWNSTATE. SO, THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YES, MA'AM. MS.

KELLES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. LAVINE.

MR. LAVINE: I WANT TO COMMEND -- I WANT TO

COMMEND THE SPONSOR. I WANT TO MAKE TWO QUICK POINTS TO CORRECT THE

RECORD, AND THEN I'M GOING TO HAVE A QUESTION FOR ALL MY COLLEAGUES.

TO BEGIN WITH, NEW YORK'S POPULATION IS DETERMINED BY THE UNITED

STATES CENSUS BUREAU AND FIGURES RELEASED TWO-AND-A-HALF WEEKS AGO

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IS NOT 17 MILLION, IT IS 19,336,776. SECONDLY, I AM VERY PROUD NOT TO

BE A MEMBER OF A POLITICAL PARTY THAT HAS A LONG HISTORY ASSOCIATED WITH

VOTER SUPPRESSION. THIRDLY, DURING THE DISCUSSION I WAS LOOKING UP,

JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY, WHAT -- WHAT ARE THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF A STATE LIKE

OHIO. OHIO, AS WE KNOW, HAS 16 CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES. OF

THAT NUMBER, 12 ARE REPUBLICANS AND FOUR ARE DEMOCRATS. EQUAL

NUMBERS OF REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IN THAT STATE. IS THAT

GERRYMANDERING? IT SURE IS. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO GET AWAY FROM THAT.

SO, HERE'S MY QUICK QUESTION, I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A

QUOTE, SO LET'S SEE WHO CAN COME UP WITH THE ANSWER. WHO SAID THIS:

BEING AT THE MERCY OF LEGISLATIVE MAJORITIES IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF

DESCRIBING THE BASIC AMERICAN PLAN, REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY. WE

DO MORE TO BE FAIR IN THIS BILL THAN WE WOULD EXPECT THE OTHER PARTY TO

EXHIBIT TOWARDS US. THAT'S NOT BILL KUNSTLER, IT'S NOT THOMAS PAINE, IT'S

NOT EUGENE DEBS, THAT WAS ROBERT BORK. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO

IMPLEMENT A FAIRER PROCESS HERE AND I AM VERY PLEASED TO VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. LAWLER.

MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. JUST IN A

FEW COMMENTS, I WANT TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES

REFERENCED PERCENT ENROLLMENT AND USING THAT AS A DETERMINING FACTOR

AS TO HOW MANY PEOPLE SHOULD BE REPRESENTED ON THE COMMISSION.

OBVIOUSLY, NOTHING WOULD BE MORE PARTISAN THAN TO DO THAT. I DON'T

THINK THAT IS IN ANY WAY THE -- THE INTENT OF THE SPONSOR'S BILL, BUT I

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CERTAINLY WOULD OPPOSE ANY EFFORT TO TRY AND USE ENROLLMENT AS A

DETERMINING FACTOR, AS OPPOSED TO OBVIOUSLY THE MAKEUP OF -- OF -- THAT

IT CURRENTLY IS.

ALSO, THERE'S TALK ABOUT VETO POWER AND TAKING AWAY

THE ABILITY OF SOMEONE TO VETO A PERFECTLY GOOD MAP. THE REALITY IS

THAT THERE ALREADY EXISTS VETO POWER, AND IT'S CALLED THE NEW YORK STATE

ASSEMBLY AND THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE. THE LEGISLATURE HAS THE

ABILITY TO VETO A MAP IT DOES NOT LIKE AND -- AND PASS MAPS THAT IT DOES.

AND, ULTIMATELY, AGAIN, THAT IS WHY THIS IS NOT TRULY AN INDEPENDENT

COMMISSION BY ANY STANDARD AND IT IS WHY I AM VOTING AGAINST

CHANGES TO THE PREVIOUS CONSTITUTION AMENDMENT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WE DO

HAVE COLLEAGUES THAT ARE GOING BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE:

MR. SANTABARBARA, MRS. BARRETT, MS. GRIFFIN, MS. BUTTENSCHON AND MR.

JONES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I KNOW

YOU HAVE A NUMBER OF FINE RESOLUTIONS, TWO OF WHICH I HAVE THAT I

WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON, AND DO YOU HAVE ANY HOUSEKEEPING?

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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NO HOUSEKEEPING,

AND WE WILL BRING UP A PRIVILEGED RESOLUTION BY YOU, MADAM MAJORITY

LEADER.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU SO MUCH, SIR.

I DO APPRECIATE YOU AND MY COLLEAGUES' PATIENCE JUST A LITTLE LONGER

HERE. I WOULD LIKE TO --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ONE MINUTE.

THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 20, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MOURNING THE DEATH OF GEORGE

K. ARTHUR, PROMINENT POLITICAL LEADER, DISTINGUISHED CITIZEN AND A

MAJOR FIGURE IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

ON THE RESOLUTION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. MR. GEORGE K. ARTHUR MENTORED A TON OF PEOPLE IN THE GREAT

CITY OF BUFFALO. HE SERVED FOR 26 YEARS IN THE CITY COUNCIL, AND MORE

RECENTLY, EVEN ACTUALLY JUST NOVEMBER I BELIEVE HE PROBABLY WENT TO

HIS LAST BUFFALO FISCAL STABILITY AUTHORITY MEETING. HE WAS A STEWARD IN

THE COMMUNITY, HE'S A MAJOR PIECE OF THE UNDERGROUND RAILROAD,

MICHIGAN HERITAGE CORRIDOR THAT WE'RE CREATING IN THE GREAT CITY OF

BUFFALO, AND HE WILL BE MISSED BY NOT JUST HIS FAMILY, BUT AN ENTIRE

COMMUNITY. THAT'S NONE OTHER THAN MR. GEORGE K. ARTHUR. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 19, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MOURNING THE DEATH OF BISHOP

WILLIAM H. HENDERSON, RELIGIOUS LEADER, DISTINGUISHED CITIZEN AND

DEVOTED MEMBER OF HIS COMMUNITY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

ON THE RESOLUTION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, AGAIN, MR.

SPEAKER. I CAN RECALL DURING OUR OPENING DAY COMMENTS, I ACTUALLY

SAID I'D PRAY THAT NO ONE ELSE PASSES, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THIS JUST KEEPS

TO BE AN ONGOING THING, NOT NECESSARILY ALL RELATED TO COVID, BUT

BISHOP WILLIAM HENDERSON WAS AN AMAZING MAN WHO ALSO WORKED ON

THE MICHIGAN STREET HERITAGE CORRIDOR IN PUTTING TOGETHER A MUSEUM

DISTRICT THAT REPRESENTS THE HISTORY OF BLACK PEOPLE, NOT JUST THE

UNDERGROUND RAILROAD CHURCH, WHICH BISHOP HENDERSON WAS THE

PASTOR OF, BUT THE NASH HOUSE WHERE GEORGE K. ARTHUR WORKED, AND

CERTAINLY THE UNDER -- THE COLORED MUSICIANS CLUB, WHICH -- THE ONE

AND ONLY AFRICAN-AMERICAN-OWNED RADIO STATION IS LOCATED IN THIS

DISTRICT, AS WELL.

BUT BISHOP HENDERSON, HIS CAREER WAS WORLDWIDE,

MR. SPEAKER. HE DID MINISTRIES IN JAMAICA, TRINIDAD, WEST INDIES,

NIGERIA, WEST AFRICA, GHANA AND WEST AFRICA. HE SPENT TIME WITH

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JEWISH BELIEVERS IN RUSSIA, AND ON THE HILLTOPS OF JERUSALEM. HIS

MINISTRY HAS TAKEN HIM TO MANY PLACES AND NOT JUST ACROSS THE UNITED

STATES OF AMERICA, BUT ACROSS THE EAST AND THE WEST OF THE WORLD. A

PHENOMENAL GENTLEMAN THAT WILL BE -- TRULY BE MISSED. AND SO, I THANK

YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO HONOR HIM TODAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON THE

RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED NO. THE

RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF RESOLUTIONS WHICH WE WILL TAKE

UP ON ONE VOTE. ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. WERE

UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

COULD CALL ON MR. GOODELL TO --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

YOU PLEASE RECOGNIZE MR. NORRIS FOR AN IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. MR.

NORRIS FOR THE PURPOSES OF A ANNOUNCEMENT, SIR.

MR NORRIS: YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD

LIKE TO CALL AN IMMEDIATE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE VIA ZOOM, AND ALSO

IN THE SPIRIT OF UNITY TODAY, TO ROOT ON OUR BUFFALO BILLS THIS SUNDAY

NIGHT IN THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. GO BUFFALO BILLS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING, AND I -- I WILL JOIN YOU IN GO BILLS.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, CAN YOU

CALL ON MS. HUNTER FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. HUNTER FOR THE

PURPOSES OF A ANNOUNCEMENT.

MS. HUNTER: YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THERE

WILL BE AN IMMEDIATE MAJORITY CONFERENCE FOLLOWING THE CONCLUSION OF

SESSION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: IMMEDIATE MAJORITY

CONFERENCE VIA ZOOM FOLLOWING SESSION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THOSE OF US FROM WESTERN NEW

YORK IN AND AROUND THE STATE OF NEW YORK WILL ALWAYS AGREE ON IS GO

BILLS.

(LAUGHTER)

SO NOW, MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND

ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, JANUARY THE 21ST, TOMORROW BEING A

LEGISLATIVE DAY, AND THAT WE WILL RECONVENE AT 2:00 P.M. ON JANUARY THE

25TH, THAT MONDAY BEING A SESSION DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY, AND LET ME

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NYS ASSEMBLY JANUARY 20, 2021

ADD THIS TO ALL OF YOU. I THINK TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO SAY GO UNITED

STATES OF AMERICA. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

ADJOURNED.

(APPLAUSE)

(WHEREUPON, AT 3:56 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD

ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, JANUARY 21ST, THURSDAY BEING A LEGISLATIVE

DAY, AND TO RECONVENE ON MONDAY, JANUARY 25TH AT 2:00 P.M., MONDAY

BEING A SESSION DAY.)

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