MONDAY, JANUARY 24, 2022                                         3:03 P.M.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, AS WE PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

                    SILENCE, LET US KEEP IN OUR THOUGHTS THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICERS

                    INVOLVED IN LAST CITY'S SHOOTINGS.  WE HOPE THE RECOVERY OF OFFICER

                    WILBERT MORA, AND REMEMBER THE SACRIFICE OF OFFICER JASON RIVERA.

                    WE ALSO HOLD IN OUR THOUGHTS THEIR FAMILIES, FRIENDS, AND COLLEAGUES.

                                 (WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

                                 VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

                    OF ALLEGIANCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

                    MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

                                          1



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    JOURNAL OF SATURDAY, JANUARY 22ND.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE

                    THAT WE DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF SATURDAY,

                    JANUARY THE 22ND AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

                    ORDERED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  I WANT TO WELCOME ALL MY COLLEAGUES BACK TO OUR BEAUTIFUL

                    CHAMBERS.  HAPPY MONDAY.  FOR THE RECORD, I DID WATCH THE GAME

                    YESTERDAY.  I THOUGHT IT WAS A GREAT GAME, ALL FOUR OF THEM.  WELL, TWO

                    OF THEM THAT WERE GREAT GAMES, IT WAS KIND OF THE BEST FOOTBALL OF THE

                    SEASON.  AND WHILE WE DIDN'T END UP THE WINNERS OF THE GAME, WE

                    DIDN'T REALLY LOSE EITHER BECAUSE IT WAS A GREAT GAME.  I WANT TO END THAT

                    LITTLE BILLS TRIBUTE BY A QUOTE OF DR. KING IS, "THE ULTIMATE MEASURE OF

                    A MAN IS NOT WHERE HE STANDS IN THE MOMENT OF COMFORT AND

                    CONVENIENCE, BUT WHERE HE STANDS AT TIMES OF CHALLENGE AND

                    CONTROVERSY."  AGAIN, MR. SPEAKER, REVEREND DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING

                    EVER SHARING WORDS WITH US TODAY.

                                 COLLEAGUES, MEMBERS SHOULD HAVE ON YOUR DESK A

                    MAIN CALENDAR.  THERE ARE 19 NEW BILLS ON IT.  AFTER THERE'S ANY

                    HOUSEKEEPING, MR. SPEAKER, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE

                    3 AND THEN WE WILL TAKE UP A RULES CHANGE RESOLUTION, E493; THAT'LL BE

                                          2



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    ON DEBATE, MR. SPEAKER.  ONCE WE ARE COMPLETED WITH THE RULES

                    CHANGE, WE WILL THEN CONSENT NEW BILLS STARTING WITH CALENDAR NO. 291

                    WHICH IS ON PAGE 4.  THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHERE WE GOING -- WHERE WE'RE

                    GOING TODAY, MR. SPEAKER, THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE.  IF YOU DO HAVE

                    HOUSEKEEPING, NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    MAJORITY LEADER, AND WE DO HAVE HOUSEKEEPING.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. BRAUNSTEIN, PAGE 60, CALENDAR

                    NO. 36, BILL NO. 355, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. ABINANTI, PAGE 25, CALENDAR NO.

                    90, BILL NO. 2045, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MS. RICHARDSON, PAGE 32, CALENDAR

                    NO. 124, BILL NO. A3366-A, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MS. HYNDMAN, PAGE 48, CALENDAR

                    NO. 210, BILL NO. A6430-A, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 PAGE 3, RESOLUTIONS, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 489, PAULIN.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JANUARY 23-29, 2022 AS CERTIFIED REGISTERED

                    NURSE ANESTHETIST WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 490, MR.

                    MAGNARELLI.

                                          3



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JANUARY 23-29, 2022 AS ENROLLED AGENT

                    WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 491, MS.

                    ROSENTHAL.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JANUARY 24-28, 2022 AS DATA VACANCY --

                    PRIVACY AWARENESS WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 492, MR.

                    DURSO.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JANUARY 2022 AS TECHNOLOGY MONTH IN THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DURSO ON THE

                    RESOLUTION.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK

                    YOU TO THIS BODY FOR RECOGNIZING JANUARY AS TECHNOLOGY MONTH IN THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.  CAN YOU IMAGINE OUR WORLD WITHOUT TECHNOLOGY?

                    EVERY DAY, TECHNOLOGY CHANGES OUR LIVES.  LET'S FACE IT, TECHNOLOGY IS

                                          4



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    IN EVERYTHING THAT WE DO, WHETHER IT'S AGRICULTURE, HEALTH CARE,

                    EDUCATION, FOOD SERVICE INDUSTRY, SECURITY OR CONSTRUCTION.  BECAUSE OF

                    TECHNOLOGY, OUR LIVES HAVE GOTTEN BETTER, AND IN SO MANY WAYS.  AND

                    TECHNOLOGY HAS SAVED COUNTLESS LIVES, AND IT WILL SAVE SO MANY MORE IN

                    THE FUTURE.

                                 BUT IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT WE MAKE MORE PATHWAYS

                    INTO TECHNOLOGY AND THE JOBS THAT COME WITH IT TO OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.

                    BUT WE MUST ALSO NOT FORGET THAT WITH ALL GREAT INNOVATIONS IN

                    TECHNOLOGY, INNOVATIONS LIKE SOCIAL MEDIA ARE GREAT, BUT THEY CAN HAVE

                    A NEGATIVE EFFECT IN OUR YOUNG PEOPLE IN SOCIETY TODAY.  LET US NOT

                    FORGET THAT SOCIAL MEDIA FOLLOWS THOSE CHILDREN HOME.  SOCIAL MEDIA

                    FOLLOWS KIDS FROM HOME, FROM SCHOOL; IT'S NOT A BULLY THAT YOU CAN

                    LEAVE AT SCHOOL AND GET AWAY FROM.  THINGS THAT KIDS PUT ON SOCIAL

                    MEDIA WILL NEVER GO AWAY AND WILL FOLLOW THEM FOREVER.  WE NEED TO

                    TEACH OUR YOUNG PEOPLE THAT TECHNOLOGY IS WONDERFUL, BUT USED

                    INCORRECTLY CAN BE A DETRIMENT.  WE NEED TO TEACH OUR CHILDREN AND NOT

                    TO LET THE INTERNET AND SOCIAL MEDIA HURT THEM OR RAISE THEM.

                                 I THANK THIS BODY FOR LETTING ME RECOGNIZE THAT

                    JANUARY IS TECHNOLOGY MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AND THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON THE

                    RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE

                    RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

                                 RULES RESOLUTION NO. 493, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 493, MRS.

                                          5



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.  AMENDING SECTION 6 OF RULE V AND SECTION 10 OF

                    RULE IV OF THE ASSEMBLY RULES, IN RELATION TO THE CONSIDERATION OF

                    BILLS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS RESOLUTION WILL PROVIDE FOR A ONE-TIME LIMIT OF 15

                    MINUTES PER MEMBER ON DEBATE.  IT ALSO ALLOWS EACH LEADER OF THE

                    HOUSE OR THEIR DESIGNEE AN ADDITIONAL ONE-TIME 15 MINUTES TO SPEAK ON

                    THE BILL.  THE TOTAL TIME TO SPEAK ON EACH BILL WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE

                    HOURS, FOUR FOR DEBATE AND ONE FOR EXPLANATION OF ONE'S VOTE.  THE TOTAL

                    TIME TO SPEAK ON CERTAIN RESOLUTIONS WOULD BE 30 MINUTES.  THOSE

                    WOULD BE THE PRIVILEGED AND CALENDAR RESOLUTIONS, MR. SPEAKER.

                    MEMBERS WILL BE ABLE TO SUBMIT ADDITIONAL COMMENTS FOR OFFICIAL

                    RECORD ON LEGISLATION.  SUCH COMMENTS WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE SAME

                    RULES AS OUR DECORUM IS ON THE FLOOR.  MESSAGES OF NECESSITY WILL NO

                    LONGER BE NECESSARY TO BE APPROVED BY RULES COMMITTEE AS IT IS IN THE

                    SENATE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    MAJORITY LEADER YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES,

                    WILL YOU YIELD?

                                          6



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES, OF COURSE, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

                    YIELDS, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.  SO A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN

                    WE ADOPTED TEMPORARY RULES RELATED TO THE COVID EMERGENCY IT WAS

                    STATED THAT GOING TO THE ONE 15-MINUTE ALLOWANCE TO SPEAK WAS FOR THE

                    PURPOSES OF KEEPING US ON THE FLOOR LESS TIME, KEEPING EVERYBODY SAFE.

                    SO WHY ARE WE MAKING THIS PERMANENT NOW?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THE DECISION TO CHANGE

                    THE RULES AGAIN, MR. RA, IS FOR THERE BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO SPEND

                    AS MUCH TIME AS POSSIBLE GETTING THE INFORMATION OUT ABOUT THE PIECE

                    OF LEGISLATION BEFORE US AND USING THE REMAINDER OF THAT TIME TO FOCUS

                    ON GETTING THE BILL PASSED AND GETTING THE INFORMATION OUT TO OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS.

                                 MR. RA:  WELL, I WOULD ARGUE WE'RE DOING THE

                    OPPOSITE OF THAT, BUT MY -- MY ONE OTHER QUESTION WITH REGARD TO THIS

                    RESOLUTION, YOU SAID THAT THE LEADER ON EITHER SIDE WOULD HAVE THE

                    OPPORTUNITY TO DESIGNATE A SECOND 15-MINUTES.  THE LANGUAGE OF THIS

                    SAYS THE FLOOR LEADER OF EACH CONFERENCE OR HIS OR HER DESIGNEE                                        MAY

                    BE GRANTED.  IS IT YOUR INTENTION THAT THAT EXTRA 15 MINUTES IS ALWAYS

                    GIVEN TO EITHER SIDE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  IF YOU ASK FOR IT, THAT

                                          7



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    WOULD BE -- THAT IS MY INTENTION, THAT'S THE INTENTION OF THE RULE CHANGE.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MADAM MAJORITY LEADER.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  SO, A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN WE ADOPTED

                    THESE EMERGENCY RULES, MANY OF US ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE WERE --

                    WERE PRETTY ANNOYED WITH THEM, BUT IT WAS STATED THAT THEY WERE BEING

                    DONE BECAUSE THERE WAS AN EMERGENCY, WE HAD TO SPEND AS LITTLE TIME

                    AS POSSIBLE ON THE FLOOR.  AND HERE WE ARE ALMOST TWO YEARS LATER

                    MAKING THAT PERMANENT.  WE USED TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK FOR 15 MINUTES,

                    MAYBE ASK QUESTIONS OF THE SPONSOR, AND THEN STILL HAVE ANOTHER 15

                    MINUTES TO GO ON THE BILL.  WE'RE COMPLETELY TAKING THAT AWAY TODAY.

                                 AND THIS IS NO SMALL THING WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT, YOU

                    KNOW, WE HAVE A BUDGET PROCESS THAT'S JUST GETTING UNDERWAY.  THERE

                    ARE PROVISIONS IN THIS PROPOSED BUDGET THAT MODIFY THE VOTER

                    REGISTRATION DEADLINE, CREATE A NEW INDEPENDENT ETHICS ENTITY,

                    PROVISIONS THAT OVERRULE OUR LOCAL SUNY, IN ADDITION TO TENS OF BILLIONS

                    OF DOLLARS OF EDUCATION FUNDING, TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF HEALTH

                    CARE FUNDING DURING A PANDEMIC.  JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE, THE PROPOSED

                    BUDGET, PUBLIC PROTECTION AND GENERAL GOVERNMENT BILL HAS 28 PARTS;

                    THE ELFA BILL HAS 32 PARTS; THE HEALTH AND MENTAL HYGIENE BILL HAS 43

                    PARTS; THE TED BILL, TRANSPORTATION AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, HAS

                    58 PARTS; AND THE REVENUE BILL HAS 31 PARTS AND WE ARE GOING TO BE

                    EXPECTED TO HAVE ONE 15-MINUTE PERIOD TO TAKE A BILL WHICH, AS IT

                                          8



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    ALWAYS IS IN THE PAST, YOU -- COME BEFORE US, THE PUBLIC HAVING NEVER

                    SEEN IT BEFORE UNTIL IT'S DEBATED ON THIS FLOOR.

                                 NOW, THE LAST FEW WEEKS ONE OF THE BIG TOPICS OF

                    DISCUSSION FEDERALLY AND EVEN HERE HAVE BEEN VOTING RIGHTS, AND WE

                    GOT LECTURED LAST WEEK THAT BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO COMPLY WITH THE

                    PROVISIONS OF OUR STATE CONSTITUTION AND BECAUSE WE WERE NOT WILLING

                    TO GO AROUND WHAT THE VOTERS OF NEW YORK STATE DECIDED LAST YEAR,

                    WHICH WAS THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT NO-EXCUSE ABSENTEE VOTING, THAT WE

                    WERE TRYING TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM VOTING AND THE MAJORITY WAS JUST

                    TRYING TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE.  WELL, WHAT GOOD IS IT FOR

                    PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO VOTE IF THE REPRESENTATIVES THEY ELECT COME HERE

                    AND THEN GET MUZZLED AND AREN'T ABLE TO SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF?

                                 SO MY QUESTION TO ANYBODY, BECAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO

                    ASSUME WHO'S GOING TO VOTE FOR THIS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, I'M

                    SURE THE VOTES ARE THERE, BUT MY QUESTION TO ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO

                    ARE GOING TO VOTE ON IT IS WHAT ARE YOU HIDING BY FURTHER STYMYING OUR

                    DEBATE IN THIS HOUSE.  TOO OFTEN ON BUDGET BILLS AND OTHER PIECES OF

                    LEGISLATION THAT COME BY MEANS OF MESSAGE OF NECESSITY, WHICH NOW

                    WE WILL NO LONGER HAVE TO AFFIRMATIVELY ACCEPT, THE WAY THE PUBLIC

                    FINDS OUT WHAT'S IN THEM IS BY QUESTIONS BEING ASKED ON THIS FLOOR.

                                 SO THIS IS NO SMALL THING.  THIS IS MAKING PERMANENT

                    TAKING ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES AND TAKING AWAY THEIR ABILITY TO ASK

                    QUESTIONS AND RAISE POINTS ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE THEY REPRESENT.

                    HOW DO WE CONTINUE TO CALL OURSELVES THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE IF WE SHUT

                    OUT THE PEOPLE'S REPRESENTATIVES?  SO I URGE EVERYONE IN THIS CHAMBER

                                          9



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    TO REJECT THIS RULES CHANGE THAT WILL PERMANENTLY CHANGE THE

                    DELIBERATIVE NATURE OF THIS HOUSE.  IT WILL CHANGE THE WAY WE DO THINGS

                    AND HAVE DONE THINGS FOR YEARS AND WILL MAKE SURE WE NEVER GO BACK

                    TO THE REGULAR ORDER OF BUSINESS THAT WE HAD PRIOR TO THE COVID

                    PANDEMIC.  MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, IT TAKES AWAY THE DELIBERATIVE

                    NATURE OF THIS BODY AND IT TAKES AWAY OUR ABILITY TO REPRESENT OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS.  I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I URGE MY COLLEAGUES

                    TO DO THE SAME.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. WALCZYK.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  IN MARCH OF 2020 WE PASSED A

                    RESOLUTION THAT WAS SIMILAR TO THIS, THERE'S A KEY WORD THAT WAS

                    DIFFERENT, AND THAT WAS ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION E854.  THE SPEAKER IN A

                    PRESS RELEASE THE DAY PRIOR SAID, DURING THESE EXTRAORDINARY

                    CIRCUMSTANCES.  THE SAME MAJORITY LEADER THAT BRINGS THIS RESOLUTION

                    BEFORE US TODAY SAID IN THAT SAME PRESS RELEASE, THIS RESOLUTION GIVES

                    US THE ABILITY TO ADOPT A NEW REALITY DURING THIS PANDEMIC AND FUTURE

                    EMERGENCIES.  AND WHEN ASKED BY MY GOOD COLLEAGUE FROM WESTERN

                    NEW YORK HERE, THE SAME MAJORITY LEADER ON THAT RESOLUTION AT THE

                    TIME WHEN PRESSED THROUGH AN OPEN DEBATE SAID, YES, THE RESOLUTION

                    SPECIFICALLY SAYS TEMPORARY.  THAT WAS A LIE.  THAT WAS A LIE.  WE VOTED

                                         10



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    AGAINST IT AT THE TIME.  IT WASN'T ABOUT EMERGENCIES, IT WASN'T ABOUT

                    EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES.  IT WAS ABOUT SILENCING THE VOICE OF THE

                    REPUBLICAN.  YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO HAVE PEOPLE NOT HAVE FAITH IN

                    OUR REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY AND OUR REPUBLIC?  THERE'S BEEN A HUGE

                    PUSH ABOUT VOTING RIGHTS THESE DAYS, RIGHT?  WELL, PEOPLE WILL GET REALLY

                    EXCITED TO GET TO THE POLLS AND VOTE FOR THEIR REPRESENTATIVE THAT CAN'T

                    EVEN SWING UP THEIR MICROPHONE AND BECAUSE IT WASN'T THEIR TURN THAT

                    DAY DEBATE ON THE BILL THAT MATTERED TO THEM.  YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT

                    DISENFRANCHISEMENT?  BREAK THE SYSTEM, BREAK OUR VOICE FIRST, THEN THE

                    VOICE OF THE PEOPLE TRULY WON'T MATTER.  IT'S A STRATEGY, I DON'T THINK IT'S

                    GOING TO BRING ANY OF US CLOSER TOGETHER, AND IT WAS BASED ON A LIE IN

                    THE FIRST PLACE.

                                 WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REAPPORTIONMENT OF DISTRICTS AND

                    ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE.  WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT?  WHAT KIND

                    OF -- WHAT DOES THIS COMMUNICATE TO THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK WHEN THIS BODY DOESN'T EVEN HOLD FREE DEBATE AND FREEDOM OF

                    SPEECH IN THEIR OWN HOUSE?  WHAT KIND OF EXAMPLE ARE WE SETTING FOR

                    OUR KIDS ABOUT WHAT THE FIRST AMENDMENT MEANS IN THIS SOCIETY?

                                 I KNOW WE LOVE QUOTES IN THIS BODY AND I'D LIKE TO

                    SHARE A COUPLE, MR. SPEAKER, ONE FROM THOMAS JEFFERSON, REASON --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. WALCZYK, IF YOU

                    WOULD, PLEASE.  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  A DEBATE FOR ANOTHER DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  I KNOW IT'S HARD.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  REASON AND FREE INQUIRY ARE THE

                                         11



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    ONLY EFFECTUAL AGENTS AGAINST ERROR.  I'D AGREE WITH MR. JEFFERSON, BUT

                    ANOTHER ONE:  BUT SOMEWHERE I READ OF THE FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY.

                    SOMEWHERE I READ OF THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.  AND THAT WAS DR. MARTIN

                    LUTHER KING, JR.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING NO ON THIS

                    RESOLUTION.  AND TO EVERY MEMBER THAT'S EVER WALKED INTO THIS

                    CHAMBER, BEEN ELECTED BY SOMEONE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, RAISED

                    THEIR RIGHT HAND AND SWORE AN OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THIS STATE AND

                    OF THE UNITED STATES, I URGE YOU TO VOTE NO, AS WELL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. TAGUE.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  FIRST AND FOREMOST, I WANT TO SAY THAT

                    ENGAGING IN SPIRITED DEBATE AND DISCUSSION IS PRECISELY WHAT OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS SEND US HERE TO DO.  WE ARE THE VOICES OF OUR PEOPLE,

                    SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF INDIVIDUALS ACROSS THE STATE, FACING INCREDIBLY

                    VARIED CIRCUMSTANCES IN THEIR LIVES AND COMMUNITIES, WHO OTHERWISE

                    WOULD NOT BE HEARD IN A STATE WHOSE POLITICS ARE DOMINATED BY THE

                    INTEREST OF THOSE LIVING IN URBAN AND METROPOLITAN COMMUNITIES.  TO

                    SPEAK AT THE LENGTH THROUGH THE STRUGGLES THEY FACE AND INFORM OUR

                    PEERS OF THEIR EXPECTATIONS AND EXPERIENCE IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE

                    MEANT TO GATHER HERE TO DO.

                                 AND THIS RESOLUTION'S PRESENCE ON THE FLOOR SPEAKS

                    VOLUMES ABOUT WHAT'S BEEN LOST IN OUR LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.  UNDER ONE

                                         12



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    PARTY RULE, THE PASSAGE OF BILLS HAS BECOME ALL BUT PREDETERMINED AND

                    OUR LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS HAVE BEEN REDUCED TO RUBBER STAMPING,

                    SELF-CONGRATULATORY SPECTACLES WHERE WE SNEAK PAST ONE ANOTHER

                    WITHOUT THE THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION OF EACH OTHER'S IDEAS.  THIS

                    DELIBERATE CHAMBER HAS BECOME A PLACE TO GRANDSTAND, NOT TO DEBATE,

                    AND THIS RESOLUTION WILL ONLY FURTHER REDUCE THE ABILITY OF OUR

                    LEGISLATURE TO MEANINGLY COLLABORATE ON LEGISLATION THAT AFFECTS ALL

                    NEW YORKERS.  WE ARE A BIG STATE AND IN ORDER TO MAKE ITS LAWS WORK

                    FOR EVERYONE WHO LIVE HERE, WE NEED TO HEAR ABOUT HOW A BILL WILL

                    AFFECT ALL OF US, FROM BUSINESS PEOPLE IN THE CITY TO FARMERS IN UPSTATE

                    NEW YORK.  CRAFTING AND PASSING LEGISLATION THAT IS HELPFUL AND, MORE

                    IMPORTANTLY, NOT HARMFUL SHOULD NEVER BE A QUICK OR SIMPLE PROCESS.

                    BY PUTTING OUR PROPOSALS THROUGH THE RINGER OF DEBATE IN THIS CHAMBER,

                    WE HELP BRING THE LATE, DANGEROUS ELEMENTS OF LEGISLATION THAT COULD

                    END UP SERIOUSLY AFFECTING PEOPLE'S LIVELIHOODS IF PASSED.  AND THERE

                    HAVE BEEN TOO MANY TIMES THROUGHOUT THIS LAST DECADE ALREADY WHEN

                    RUSHED BILLS HAVE COME IN WITH NUMEROUS CONSEQUENCES THAT WERE

                    EITHER UNFORESEEN OR NOT TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

                                 WITH THE IMPACT THESE POLICIES HAVE ON THE LIVES OF

                    US -- OF US ALL, THE LAST THING WE SHOULD BE DOING IS WORKING TO STIFLE,

                    STIFLE THE VOICES OF THE PEOPLE OR THE VOICES OF THE LEGISLATORS

                    REPRESENTING REGIONS THAT DON'T CARRY THE POLITICAL WEIGHT OF OTHERS.  AS

                    LAWMAKERS, IT SHOULD BE OUR DUTY AND OUR HONOR TO SAY ALL WE CAN SAY

                    ABOUT HOW OUR LAWS WILL IMPROVE OR JEOPARDIZE THE WELL-BEING OF ALL

                    THE PEOPLE THAT WE REPRESENT, AND WE SHOULD ALL HONOR THAT OBLIGATION

                                         13



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    BY REJECTING THIS MEASURE.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, MY GRANDFATHER WAS A WORLD WAR II

                    PEARL HARBOR SURVIVOR, BATTLE OF THE BULGE, AND D-DAY.  HE FOUGHT FOR

                    THAT FLAG THAT STANDS ABOVE YOU TO GIVE ALL OF US FREEDOM AND ALLOW US

                    TO BE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PEOPLE.  I REPRESENT 133,000 PEOPLE AND BY

                    TAKING TIME AWAY FROM ME DURING A DEBATE INFRINGES UPON THE RIGHTS OF

                    THOSE PEOPLE I REPRESENT.  I, LIKE THE OTHER 149 MEMBERS OF THIS

                    LEGISLATION [SIC] GOT ELECTED TO DO A JOB FOR AND BY THE PEOPLE, THAT'S

                    WHAT I INTEND TO DO.  THE PEOPLE WHERE I COME FROM DON'T WANT TO HEAR

                    THAT MY VOICE WASN'T HEARD, THEY WANT TO KNOW WHY IT WASN'T.

                                 SO I ASK ALL, ALL OF YOU IN THIS CHAMBER, REPUBLICAN,

                    DEMOCRAT, INDEPENDENT, STAND UP FOR THAT FLAG, THE FREEDOM AND THE

                    PEOPLE THAT CAME BEFORE US.  INSIST ON ALL OF US HAVING AN EQUAL TIME TO

                    DEBATE THE BILLS AND TO BE ABLE TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE THAT COME FROM

                    WHERE WE COME FROM.  GOD BLESS AMERICA.  VOTE NO ON THIS RESOLUTION.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    MA'AM.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN MY -- MY

                    BRIEF COMMENTS, BECAUSE WE HAVE FIVE MINUTES EACH, WITH A QUOTE.

                    THE QUOTE IS, "OUR LIVES BEGIN TO END THE DAY WE BECOME SILENT ABOUT

                    THE THINGS THAT MATTER."  AND THAT'S MARTIN LUTHER KING.  THIS

                    RESOLUTION OFFERS PERMANENT CHANGES WITHOUT JUSTIFICATION.  AS MR. RA

                    STATED, SOME BILLS ARE COMPLEX, MANY BILLS ARE COMPLEX, OMNIBUS.

                                         14



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    THINK OF THE BUDGET BILLS, THINK OF US TRYING TO ADDRESS BUDGET BILLS

                    WITH MULTIPLE PARTS TO THEM, STILL WARM OFF THE PRINTERS WHEN WE'RE

                    BRIEFED ON THEM AND THEN ASKED TO GO IN AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE 15

                    MINUTES EACH TO BE ABLE TO TRY TO ADDRESS THOSE BUDGET BILLS, TO A BUDGET

                    THAT'S DEVELOPED ESSENTIALLY IN DARKNESS.  THIS IS EQUIVALENT TO DOING

                    AWAY WITH THE FILIBUSTER WHERE ALL THAT ARGUMENT IS GOING ON AT THE

                    NATIONAL LEVEL, THIS IS -- THAT'S WHAT THIS IS RIGHT HERE.  THIS ISN'T

                    DEMOCRACY.  THIS IS NOT AN ADEQUATE REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE THAT

                    WE ARE ALL ELECTED TO REPRESENT.

                                 THE WORD STIFLE WAS USED BEFORE.  IT STIFLES THE

                    PRINCIPAL OPPOSITION.  WE ARE 150 DIVERSE MEMBERS FROM 150 DIVERSE

                    DISTRICTS.  THIS WILL LIMIT OUR ABILITY TO BE THE PRINCIPAL OPPOSITION.

                    HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE STOOD HERE ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE AND

                    ARGUED ABOUT BILLS AND THEN WE COME BACK AND WE SEE THE CHAPTER

                    AMENDMENT, THE CHAPTER AMENDMENT THAT REFLECTS THE EXACT DEBATE THAT

                    WE BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR.  WE SERVE A PURPOSE.  WE SERVE A PURPOSE AND

                    THIS IS GOING TO REALLY HURT OUR ABILITY TO DO OUR JOB AND TO REPRESENT THE

                    PEOPLE THAT PUT US HERE.  IT'S OFFENSIVE.  THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, BUT

                    THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE OR THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER,

                    THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ECHO CHAMBER.  THERE WILL BE NO DIFFERING

                    OPINIONS ALLOWED.

                                 YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT TRANSPARENCY, THAT'S

                    A BUNCH OF LIP SERVICE BECAUSE THIS HURTS TRANSPARENCY.  THIS HURTS THIS

                    BODY, THIS HURTS OUR WORK, AND THIS HURTS THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE ELECTED

                    US.  I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT THIS IS BEING OFFERED ON THE FLOOR TODAY AND I

                                         15



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    HOPE, I HOPE THAT THIS WILL BE VOTED DOWN.  I OBVIOUSLY WILL BE NOT

                    SUPPORTING IT, AND I DO HOPE THAT NO MATTER WHAT LETTER IS AFTER YOUR

                    NAME THAT YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT YOUR GOAL IS IN THIS ASSEMBLY

                    CHAMBER AND YOU VOTE NO AGAINST THESE CHANGES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ANGELINO.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU.  AS LITTLE AS FIVE YEARS

                    AGO, I HAD NO IDEA, NO INTENTIONS AND ACTUALLY NO DESIRE TO EVEN BE A

                    MEMBER OF THE ASSEMBLY.  AFTER THE 2019 BAIL REFORM WHICH COINCIDED

                    WITH MY RETIREMENT AS A POLICE CHIEF, THE ACTIVITY THAT HAPPENED IN THIS

                    ROOM AND ACROSS THE BUILDING PROPELLED ME TO THIS POSITION, PROPELLED

                    ME TO THIS POSITION AHEAD OF FOUR OTHERS WHO CHALLENGED ME.  AND IT

                    WAS BECAUSE I PROMISED THAT I WOULD BE THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE OF THE

                    122ND DISTRICT.  THAT DISTRICT'S ENORMOUS AND I TRAVEL AND SPEAK TO A LOT

                    OF PEOPLE, COUNTLESS NUMBERS OF CONSTITUENTS I'VE MADE THAT PROMISE

                    THAT I WOULD BE THEIR VOICE IN ALBANY, AND I HAVE DOCUMENTED ALMOST

                    30,000 MILES TRAVELING ACROSS THAT DISTRICT.

                                 THERE ARE TIMES THAT I'VE SPOKEN WITH CONSTITUENTS

                    ABOUT CONCERNS.  THEY -- THEY READ THE LEGISLATION, THEY'RE WORRIED

                    ABOUT IT AND THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES THAT THEIR VOICE ACTUALLY CAME OUT

                    OF MY MOUTH ON THIS FLOOR AND I ECHOED THEIR CONCERNS TO COLLEAGUES

                    DURING DEBATE, OR ALSO WHEN I WAS ON THE BILL.  THERE'S BEEN TIMES

                    WHEN I SAT ON THIS FLOOR LOOKING ACROSS DURING DEBATE, LISTENING

                                         16



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    INTENTLY, THAT I'VE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT THE DIVERSITY OF THE 150 MEMBERS

                    AND THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE EACH ONE OF US REPRESENTS.  I HOPE THAT

                    THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES THAT PEOPLE HAVE LISTENED TO ME AND LEARNED

                    ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT TAKE PLACE IN MY RURAL AREA.  BUT I KNOW I

                    HAVE LEARNED A LOT AND BY STIFLING ME, IT'S TAKING AWAY THAT VOICE OF THE

                    133,000 PEOPLE I REPRESENT.  AND IT'S -- IT'S JUST UNFATHOMABLE THAT

                    WE'RE DOING THIS.

                                 I ONLY LEARNED ABOUT THIS A MATTER OF MINUTES AGO THAT

                    WE WERE CHANGING THESE RULES, AND AS I WALKED HERE AND CONTEMPLATED

                    IT, I REALIZED THE GRAVITY OF WHAT WE WERE DOING.  WE'RE TAKING AWAY

                    THE PEOPLE'S VOICE IN THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE AND WE'RE LIMITING THE AMOUNT

                    OF TRANSPARENCY TO MY CONSTITUENTS BY DOING THIS.  I DON'T KNOW HOW

                    MANY TIMES I'VE LISTENED TO COLLEAGUES ON MY SIDE OF THE AISLE ASK THE

                    QUESTIONS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE AND HAVING THE PEOPLE ON THE

                    OTHER SIDE REALIZE THEY MAY HAVE ERRED WHEN THEY WERE WRITING THEIR

                    LEGISLATION AND, LO AND BEHOLD, THE NEXT TIME AROUND WE FIND OUT THERE'S

                    BEEN AN AMENDMENT THAT INCLUDES THE EXACT QUESTIONS THAT MY

                    COLLEAGUES ASKED.

                                 MY -- BY LIMITING MY ABILITY TO ASK QUESTIONS IS

                    HARMFUL TO THE 133,000 PEOPLE I REPRESENT.  I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS

                    HAPPENING IN THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE AND I WOULD URGE ALL OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES IN THIS ROOM, IN THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE OF THE NEW YORK STATE

                    ASSEMBLY, TO VOTE NO ON THIS AND JOIN ME IN VOTING THIS DOWN.  THANK

                    YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BYRNE.

                                         17



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MR. BYRNE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  YOU KNOW, JUST TO GO DOWN MEMORY LANE, A COUPLE YEARS AGO

                    BEFORE THIS PANDEMIC, BEFORE ALL THESE RESTRICTIONS, BEFORE THIS

                    TEMPORARY CHANGE IN OUR RULES ON HOW WE VOTED, I REMEMBER

                    PARTNERING WITH MY COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE TO HAVE A

                    ROBUST DEBATE TO PROTECT OUR SAFETY IN HOSPITALS.  MY COLLEAGUES FROM

                    WESTCHESTER STOOD UP PROUDLY, THEY USED TWO ROUNDS OF 15 MINUTES TO

                    DEBATE SOMETHING FIERCELY, TIRELESSLY TO PROTECT THEIR DISTRICT.  IT

                    WORKED.  THAT BILL WAS AMENDED, IT DIDN'T COME BACK FROM THE SENATE.

                    IT WORKED BECAUSE THEY WERE PASSIONATE AND THEY WERE FIGHTING FOR

                    THEIR DISTRICT.  THAT WAS YOUR MEMBERS.  THOSE WERE DEMOCRAT

                    MEMBERS.  THIS ISN'T JUST DISENFRANCHISING THE MINORITY, IT'S

                    DISENFRANCHISING THE VOICE OF EVERY SINGLE MEMBER IN THIS CHAMBER.

                                 NO MEMBER SHALL SPEAK MORE THAN ONCE ON ANY BILL OR

                    AMENDMENT.  OUR STATE'S BUDGET LAST YEAR WAS $212 BILLION, THE

                    EXECUTIVE'S PROPOSED AT $216 BILLION.  I'VE DEBATED BUDGETS.  LAST TIME

                    I TRIED TO GO THROUGH IN, LIKE, A SUPER FAST MOTION JUST TO GO THROUGH THE

                    HEALTH BUDGET, COULDN'T GET TO EVERYTHING WE WANTED.  A LOT OF

                    IMPORTANT CHANGES, THINGS THAT AFFECT OUR LOCAL COUNTY HEALTH

                    DEPARTMENTS, VARIOUS CHARITIES THAT DO GOD'S WORK HELPING PEOPLE WITH

                    LESSER NEEDS.  THIS IS A TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE TO HOW THE MEMBERS

                    OF THE ASSEMBLY WILL CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS AND VOTE.  IT

                    DISENFRANCHISES EACH AND EVERY MEMBER, MAJORITY OR MINORITY, THE

                    SPEAKER, MAJORITY LEADER, MINORITY LEADER.  IT LIMITS OUR VOICE, IT

                    LIMITS OUR ABILITY TO DO OUR JOB AND BECAUSE OF IT, MILLIONS OF NEW

                                         18



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    YORKERS WILL HAVE THEIR VOICE WEAKENED.

                                 I VOTE NO AND I ASK ALL MY COLLEAGUES AND EVERY

                    COLLEAGUE THAT HAS EVER GONE TO 15 MINUTES AND HAS BEEN SHUT DOWN

                    AND TOLD TO SIT DOWN, I THINK THEY HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO VOTE NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. REILLY.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. REILLY:  RULES, RULES THAT PROBABLY HAVE TO BE

                    FOLLOWED NOW IN THIS CHAMBER.  WE HAVE A LOT OF RULES IN THIS

                    CHAMBER THAT WE HAVE TO FOLLOW.  THERE ARE RULES IN PLACE WHEN THE

                    STATE OF THE STATE WAS GIVEN BY THE GOVERNOR TO ENSURE THAT YOU HAD

                    YOUR MASK ON.  THE GOVERNOR STOOD IN THIS CHAMBER WITHOUT A MASK

                    ON TO SPEAK.  IT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE THAT I THINK WE ALL HAVE TO TAKE INTO

                    ACCOUNT HERE.

                                 IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE RULES, LET'S HAVE AN OPEN

                    DISCUSSION ABOUT THEM BEFORE THEY GET PRESENTED.  YOU KNOW, THE MASK

                    IS KILLING ME TALKING HERE, I'M FOLLOWING THE RULE.  EVERY BIT OF MY FIBER

                    WANTS TO RIP IT OFF BECAUSE MY GLASSES ARE FOGGING UP.  BUT LET'S GET ON

                    THIS RESOLUTION, WHAT HAPPENS IF I'M DEBATING AND THEN ANOTHER

                    COLLEAGUE DECIDES TO DEBATE AND IT REFRESHES MY MEMORY ABOUT

                    SOMETHING I FORGOT TO BRING UP, OR DURING ANOTHER DEBATE SOMETHING

                    COMES UP AND IT'S A VALID POINT TO RAISE.  WE NOW MISS THAT

                    OPPORTUNITY.  THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK MISS THAT OPPORTUNITY.  ALL OUR

                                         19



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    CONSTITUENTS, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY HAVE AN R, A D, AN I, A C OR

                    NOTHING, WE ARE FAILING THEM IF WE DON'T ALLOW THEIR VOICES TO BE HEARD.

                    BECAUSE THAT'S OUR JOB HERE.  AND ALL I COULD SAY IS, HOW MANY TIMES --

                    OR THE QUESTION IS ASKED HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE ACTUALLY HAD THAT

                    MUCH OF A DEBATE WHERE WE WENT INTO OVER FIVE, SIX, SEVEN HOURS?

                    AND THE BILL THAT WE DID DO THAT ON DESERVED TO HAVE THE LIGHT SHINED

                    ON THEM.  THAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE, THAT IF WE DON'T SHINE THE LIGHT THEN

                    WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE TRULY THE RIGHT THING.  AND YES, IT'S A SAVE IN

                    TIME, I HAVE TWO MINUTES AND 30 SECONDS LEFT, I WILL YIELD THEM BACK.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  THERE ARE 150 MEMBERS OF THIS

                    HOUSE, EACH DULY-ELECTED TO COME HERE AND SPEAK FOR ROUGHLY 130,000

                    NEW YORKERS ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT MATTER TO THEM, BECAUSE EVERY

                    SINGLE THING WE DO HERE IMPACTS THE LIVES OF MILLIONS OF NEW YORKERS

                    WHETHER YOU'RE RICH, POOR, MIDDLE-CLASS, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR RACE IS.

                    EVERYTHING DONE HERE DESERVES TO BE THOROUGHLY DISCUSSED.  WE SHOULD

                    BE DISCUSSING THESE ISSUES MORE, NOT LESS.  THIS IS THE LEGISLATURE THAT

                    BROUGHT BAIL REFORM, WHICH HAS BEEN A TOTAL DISASTER FOR OUR STATE.  WE

                    PASSED BUDGETS THAT INCLUDE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

                                         20



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    WHY ARE WE LIMITING DEBATE?  IT'S BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT THE

                    OPPOSITION SHINING THE LIGHT ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CAPITOL OF NEW

                    YORK.

                                 SO INSTEAD OF TAPPING THE DEBATE TIME AT 15 MINUTES

                    PER PERSON, FOUR HOURS TOTAL, WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE A MORE LIVELY,

                    PRODUCTIVE DISCUSSION.  HOW CAN ANY MEMBER OF THIS BODY GO HOME TO

                    THEIR CONSTITUENTS AND WHEN ASKED, WHY DIDN'T YOU BRING UP THIS POINT

                    ON THAT BILL, OR WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING, AND YOUR RESPONSE IS

                    THEN, WELL, I WASN'T ALLOWED TO SPEAK, YOU KNOW, TOO MANY PEOPLE HAD

                    SPOKEN BEFORE ME, SORRY.  THE MAJORITY JUST WANTED TO RAM THROUGH

                    THEIR AGENDA.  AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY, MR. SPEAKER.

                    I'M VOTING NO ON THIS AND I ENCOURAGE EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF THIS

                    CHAMBER WHO CARES ABOUT DEMOCRACY AND REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY

                    TO DO THE SAME.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. LAWLER.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AND I DO

                    WANT TO RECOGNIZE YOUR COMMENTS AT THE BEGINNING OF TODAY'S SESSION.

                    I APPRECIATE THAT, BUT THE FACT THAT THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE

                    TODAY THAT WE'RE DEBATING IS A JOKE.  IT'S AN EMBARRASSMENT AND THIS

                    BODY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF ITSELF.

                                 WE ARE ALL ELECTED IN OUR OWN RIGHT.  I WASN'T ELECTED

                    BY THE SPEAKER OR THE MAJORITY LEADER.  I WAS ELECTED BY THE

                    CONSTITUENTS WHO I REPRESENT.  WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO OUR LEGISLATIVE

                    LEADERS, YOU WERE ELECTED TO YOUR POSITIONS BY US, BY THIS BODY.  WE

                                         21



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    ARE NOT HERE TO DO YOUR BIDDING, WE ARE HERE ON BEHALF OF OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS AND TO DO THEIR BIDDING.

                                 WE TALK ALL THE TIME ABOUT THE NEED FOR TRANSPARENCY.

                    THIS ISN'T TRANSPARENT.  THESE RULES ARE AN ABSOLUTE JOKE.  RULE VIII OF

                    THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY EXEMPTS US FROM FOIL.  THE FACT THAT

                    WE ARE LIMITING DEBATE AND TRYING TO SILENCE OPPOSITION, AND TO MY

                    COLLEAGUES ON THE LEFT, LET'S BE VERY CLEAR, THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT SILENCING

                    THE MINORITY.  THIS IS ABOUT SILENCING OPPOSITION WITHIN YOUR OWN

                    PARTY.  ALL OF YOU PROGRESSIVES, SELF-INVENTED SOCIALISTS, BE VERY CLEAR,

                    THIS IS VERY MUCH AIMED AT YOU, TOO.  AND IT'S -- IT'S WRONG.  THIS IS NOT

                    HOW WE SHOULD BE GOVERNING.  SO MANY TIMES I'VE HEARD IN THIS

                    CHAMBER, COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE SAY, WE'LL GO THROUGH THE

                    COMMITTEE PROCESS.  WELL, THE DIRTY LITTLE JOKE IS THERE IS NO COMMITTEE

                    PROCESS.  IT'S NOTHING MORE THAN A RUBBER STAMP.  THE HYSTERIA THAT

                    ENSUES WHEN SOMEBODY VOTES AGAINST A BILL IN COMMITTEE IS LAUGHABLE.

                    LAST YEAR WE OVERRODE A VOTE IN THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE WHEN THE

                    CHAIRMAN TRIED TO STIFLE A BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE THE HOLOCAUST TO BE

                    TAUGHT IN OUR SCHOOLS.  GIVE ME A BREAK.  WE ARE THE LOYAL OPPOSITION,

                    THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT, AND PART OF OUR JOB IS TO POINT OUT THE

                    PROBLEMS WITH LEGISLATION.  IF THAT WAS A TRUE COMMITTEE PROCESS, OKAY,

                    I COULD ACCEPT MAYBE SOME LIMITATION ON DEBATE, BUT THERE ISN'T.  THIS

                    IS OUR OPPORTUNITY AS INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS TO RAISE CONCERN, TO RAISE

                    ISSUES THAT MATTER TO OUR CONSTITUENTS.

                                 I SAID WHEN I RAN FOR OFFICE THAT I WOULD BE UP HERE

                    EVERY DAY DEBATING THESE BILLS, DEBATING THESE ISSUES, THAT I WILL BE A

                                         22



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    VOICE FOR MY DISTRICT.  IT'S A 2-1 DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT.  YOU KNOW WHY I

                    GOT ELECTED?  BECAUSE MY PREDECESSOR WAS A POTTED PLANT, THAT'S WHY.

                    AND I SAID I WOULD NOT DO THAT.  I DON'T CARE IF I GET REDISTRICTED INTO

                    NEW JERSEY.  I DON'T CARE IF I'M ONLY HERE ONE TERM.  I WILL BE PROUD OF

                    THE FACT THAT I STOOD UP AND SPOKE OUT AGAINST THE NONSENSE THAT COMES

                    OUT OF THIS CHAMBER.  NOW, I VOTED WITH THE SPEAKER 83 PERCENT OF THE

                    TIME LAST YEAR, 83 PERCENT AS A REPUBLICAN.  IT WAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN

                    MY CONFERENCE.  BUT ON THE 17 PERCENT THAT I DISAGREED WITH HIM, IT

                    MATTERED TO DEBATE THOSE BILLS.  IT MATTERED TO POINT OUT THE PROBLEMS.

                                 SO I SAY TO ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES, LEFT OR RIGHT, THIS IS

                    YOUR ONE OPPORTUNITY, YOUR ONE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK UP AND TO HAVE

                    YOUR VOICE HEARD FOR YOUR CONSTITUENTS, NOT FOR YOUR LEGISLATIVE

                    LEADERS, NOT FOR YOUR POLITICAL PARTY, BUT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO PUT YOU

                    HERE AND WHO ARE PAYING YOUR SALARY.  AND I'LL JUST LEAVE YOU WITH THIS:

                    COULD YOU IMAGINE THE OUTRAGE ON THE PAGES OF THE NEW YORK TIMES

                    OR ON TWITTER IF THIS WAS DONE IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA?  OR THE STATE OF

                    TEXAS?  OR THE STATE OF FLORIDA?  I GUARANTEE YOU IF I LOOKED AT THE

                    TWITTER FEEDS OF EVERY ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES ON THE LEFT, THEY WOULD BE

                    SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS.  SO YOU KNOW WHAT?  DO IT FOR YOUR

                    OWN CONSTITUENTS AND YOUR OWN STATE INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT WHAT

                    THEY'RE DOING IN GEORGIA, WORRY ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.  VOTE NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. SMULLEN.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    MEMBER FROM THE 141ST ASSEMBLY DISTRICT PLEASE YIELD FOR A FEW

                    QUESTIONS?  MADAM MAJORITY LEADER?

                                         23



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  OF COURSE I WILL.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I REALLY

                    APPRECIATE IT.  THE DIALOG TO ME IS VERY IMPORTANT.  REPRESENTING THE

                    118TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT, WHICH IS THE MOHAWK VALLEY AND THE

                    WESTERN PART OF THE ADIRONDACKS, THE LARGEST ASSEMBLY DISTRICT IN NEW

                    YORK STATE BY SQUARE MILES, BUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF PEOPLE.  AND MY

                    VOICE OUGHT TO BE HEARD ON BEHALF OF MY PEOPLE IN THIS ASSEMBLY.  AND

                    I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE DISCUSS A COUPLE, AND I KNOW I'VE

                    ONLY GOT A FEW MINUTES HERE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT FIVE MINUTES FOR

                    RESOLUTIONS, BUT THE -- THE CLAUSE IN THE RESOLUTION THAT SAYS WHEN

                    TWO-THIRDS OF THE MEMBERS PRESENT AUTHORIZE IT, MORE TIME CAN BE --

                    CAN BE ALLOTTED.  IS THAT PEOPLE THAT'S TWO-THIRDS PRESENT IS ON THE FLOOR

                    SO IF WE ALL VOTED TWO-THIRDS, THERE'S MORE REPUBLICANS HERE THAN

                    DEMOCRATS, WOULD THAT CARRY THE VOTE ON THE FLOOR?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  SO THE RESOLUTION BEFORE

                    US TODAY TO CHANGE THE RULES WILL ALLOW FOR EACH LEADER TO DECIDE, THAT

                    WOULD BE THE LEADERS ON THE FLOOR, MR. GOODELL AND MYSELF, IF

                    SOMEONE NEEDS AN ADDITIONAL 15 MINUTES, THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED THAT.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  BUT THE TWO-THIRDS PROVISIONS I

                    THINK IS -- IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE WOULD GET OUR

                    COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE TO GET TO THAT TWO-THIRDS NUMBER

                    TO BE ABLE TO DO IT.  IS THAT JUST MEMBERS PRESENT OR CAN THEY BE PRESENT

                    -- I KNOW NOW YOU HAVE TO BE HERE IN PERSON TO SPEAK, WILL THAT BE THE

                    PROCESS GOING FORWARD?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  SIR, THE RESOLUTION BEFORE

                                         24



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    US TODAY IS LITERALLY ALLOWING FOR MEMBERS TO HAVE AN ADDITIONAL 15

                    MINUTES SHOULD THAT DECISION BE MADE BY THE LEADERSHIP.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  BECAUSE MY -- MY CONCERN HERE IS

                    HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK ON BUDGET BILLS THAT ARE OFTEN BROUGHT UNDER

                    MESSAGES OF NECESSITY, AND THOSE BILLS, AS ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES HAS

                    MENTIONED, ARE OFTEN NOT PROVIDED UNTIL THEY ARE ACTUALLY BROUGHT OUT

                    ONTO THE FLOOR.  AND THEN THE LIST OF QUESTIONS THAT WE WANT BROUGHT

                    OUT, AND MANY OF THESE THINGS IN THE BUDGET ARE -- ARE POLICY PROVISIONS

                    WHICH DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH BUDGETING, BUT THEY'RE --

                    THEY'RE POLICY THAT'S BROUGHT THROUGH, YOU KNOW, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE

                    NIGHT SORT OF THING AND IT'S REALLY HARD TO MAKE OUR -- OUR PEOPLE'S

                    POSITION KNOWN WHEN THERE'S ONLY 15 MINUTES AND WE'RE DOING THESE

                    REPETITIVE BILLS.  BECAUSE THE WAY I'M READING THIS, FIVE HOURS AND WE'RE

                    GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GO THROUGH A FORM OF CLOTURE TO LIMIT THE DEBATE.

                    AND JUST -- MR. SPEAKER, ON THE RESOLUTION, SO I MAY -- MAY FINISH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  CLOTURE, OR CLOSURE, INFORMALLY A

                    GUILLOTINE, IS A MOTION OR PROCESS IN PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE AIMED AT

                    BRINGING DEBATE TO A QUICK END.  THE CLOTURE PROCEDURE ORIGINATED IN

                    THE FRENCH NATIONAL ASSEMBLY, THAT WAS DURING THE FRENCH REVOLUTION

                    WHEN THEY WERE ACTUALLY GUILLOTINE -- GUILLOTINING PEOPLE, FROM WHOM

                    THE NAME WAS TAKEN.  IT'S FRENCH FOR THE ACT OF TERMINATING SOMETHING

                                         25



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    AND IT WAS INTRODUCED INTO ENGLAND IN THE PARLIAMENT IN THE U.K. TO

                    OVERCOME THE OBSTRUCTIONISM OF THE IRISH PARLIAMENTARIAN PARTY AND

                    WAS MADE PERMANENT IN 1887, AND FROM THERE IT CAME TO OUR UNITED

                    STATES SENATE WHERE WE KNOW THE TERM.

                                 WELL, WE'VE NEVER HAD CLOTURE BEFORE HERE IN THE

                    LIMITING OF THE DEBATE IN THIS BODY, AND I THINK OVERALL THAT HAS BEEN A

                    GOOD THING.  LOOKING AT THE -- OUR COMMITTEE SYSTEM, HOW WE BRING

                    BILLS OUT, HOW WE DO CHAPTER AMENDMENTS, ABOUT HOW WE MAKE THINGS

                    BETTER FOR OUR CONSTITUENTS, IN MY CASE ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION COMMITTEE, CHAPTER AMENDMENTS ARE VERY IMPORTANT,

                    COMMITTEE PROCESS IS IMPORTANT, BUT THE FLOOR DEBATE IS WHERE YOU CAN

                    ACTUALLY GET THE GOVERNOR'S EAR TO PERHAPS TAKE A SECOND LOOK AT A BILL.

                    AND IF WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND WE'RE GOING TO REDUCE IT AND WE'RE

                    GOING TO LIMIT IT TO FIVE HOURS, THAT'S GOING TO PRESSURIZE, PARTICULARLY

                    DURING THE BUDGET SEASON, OUR PROCESS HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY.  AND IT'S

                    GOING TO CAUSE NOT ONLY A LOT OF INTERNAL CONSTERNATION, WHETHER IT'S

                    FROM THE REPUBLICANS OR FROM THE PROGRESSIVES OR WHOMEVER, BUT IT'S

                    GOING TO CAUSE A LOT, A LOT OF CONFUSION AMONGST THE PEOPLE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALKER, WHY DO

                    YOU RISE?

                                 MS. WALKER:  WILL THE GENTLEMAN YIELD FOR A FEW

                    QUESTIONS?

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  MOST CERTAINLY, MS. WALKER.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 MS. WALKER:  THANK YOU.  I APPRECIATE HEARING

                                         26



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    YOUR HISTORY LESSONS (INAUDIBLE/MIC NOT ON) -- WITH RESPECT -- I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR HISTORY WITH RESPECT TO CLOTURE.  BUT THERE'S ANOTHER

                    HISTORY WITH RESPECT TO LEGISLATIVE PROCEEDINGS WHICH INVOLVES

                    FILIBUSTER.  AND THE DEFINITION THAT I READ FOR FILIBUSTER IS IT'S A POLITICAL

                    PROCEDURE IN WHICH ONE OR MORE MEMBERS OF A LEGISLATIVE BODY

                    PROLONGS DEBATE ON PROPOSED LEGISLATION SO AS TO DELAY OR ENTIRELY

                    PREVENT ITS PASSAGE.  IT IS SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS TALKING A BILL TO

                    DEATH AND IT IS CHARACTERIZED AS A FORM OF OBSTRUCTION IN A LEGISLATURE

                    OR OTHER DECISION-MAKING BODY.  ARE YOU AWARE --

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  MOST CERTAINLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALKER, YOU --

                    YOU -- YOU USED HIS LAST TIME TO ASK THE QUESTION.

                                 MS. WALKER:  I'M SORRY, SIR.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  YOU FILIBUSTERED ME.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YOU JUST ELIMINATED

                    HIS OPPORTUNITY.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  MR. SPEAKER, MAY I SUM UP,

                    PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PLEASE SUM.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  I THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION

                    BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO NOT DO IS TO GO INTO FILIBUSTERING.  IF YOU

                    GIVE US ENOUGH TIME TO -- TO BRING THE -- THE ISSUES OUT, TO MAKE THINGS

                    BETTER, THEN WE WON'T HAVE TO GO TO THE TACTICS OF WHAT HAPPENS IN, SAY,

                                         27



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    LIKE THE UNITED STATES SENATE WITH THE FILIBUSTER AND ALL THE NEGATIVE

                    CONSEQUENCES THAT GO ALONG WITH IT.

                                 SO WHAT I'M ASKING IS THAT MY COLLEAGUES EVERYWHERE

                    IN THE BODY, WE AGREE THAT WE ASSEMBLE, WE'RE ALL EQUAL AS A -- ONE OF

                    150 MEMBERS ON THE FLOOR AND THAT WE GET, WITH FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WE

                    GET TO REPRESENT OUR PEOPLE IN ALL THESE ISSUES OF THE DAY THAT ARE

                    BROUGHT BEFORE US.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. SALKA.

                                 MR. SALKA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 YOU KNOW, IT'S PROTOCOL HERE WHEN WE OPEN UP

                    SESSION TO SAY A PRAYER, OR TO BOW OUR HEADS.  SOMETIMES WE'LL LISTEN

                    TO CLERGY THAT'S HERE, MANY TIMES WITHOUT SO IT'S UP TO US TO BE ABLE TO

                    CONTEMPLATE IN OUR MINDS WHY WE'RE HERE.  AND I ALWAYS ASK THE GREAT

                    -- THE GREAT ONE, I CALL HIM, TO GIVE ME THE GUIDANCE TO HAVE A PROPER

                    VOTE, TO HAVE THE WISDOM TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS IN THE

                    BEST INTERESTS OF THE 130,000 PEOPLE I REPRESENT.

                                 SO INVARIABLY, I ALWAYS ASK MYSELF WHY ARE WE HERE.

                    WE'RE OBVIOUSLY HERE TO REPRESENT THOSE PEOPLE.  WE'RE OBVIOUSLY HERE

                    TO BE A CONDUIT.  WE'RE HERE TO BE, AS ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES, THEIR

                    VOICE IN THIS GREAT CHAMBERS.  NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT UNLIMITED DEBATE

                    IS SOMETHING THAT'S POSSIBLE -- NOT POSSIBLE, OBVIOUSLY NOT JUST FOR THE

                    SAKE OF TIME, BUT ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS DOES IS THIS IS WHAT I CALL A

                    MODIFIED GAG ORDER.  THIS IS NOT ALLOWING REPRESENTATIVES WHO HAVE

                                         28



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    BEEN ELECTED BY THE MAJORITY OF THEIR VOTERS IN THEIR DISTRICT TO REPRESENT

                    THEIR VOICES IN THIS CHAMBER.  AND THIS IS CONTRARY TO WHY WE'RE HERE.

                                 AND I GUESS THE QUESTION IS THIS, TO WHY?  ARE WE

                    MAKING THESE CHAMBERS SAFER?  I DON'T THINK SO.  ARE WE MAKING THESE

                    CHAMBERS MORE EFFICIENT?  I'D HAVE TO SAY NO.  ARE WE HERE REALLY

                    REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK BY LIMITING THE

                    AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION, THE AMOUNT OF ROBUST DEBATE, WHAT THIS

                    DEMOCRACY IS BASED ON, THE EXCHANGE OF IDEAS, FREE SPEECH GUARANTEED

                    BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT.  ARE WE REALLY PERTAINING TO THOSE TRUE

                    VALUES?  ARE WE REALLY ADHERING TO THOSE TRUE VALUES?  AND I'D HAVE TO

                    SAY NO.  AS WE GET INTO COMPLICATED ISSUES LIKE HEALTH CARE AND

                    EDUCATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE, TO LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT CAN BE

                    DEBATED ON THOSE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES IS JUST PLAIN WRONG.  IT'S

                    COUNTERPRODUCTIVE AND IT'S CONTRARY TO WHAT THIS BODY STANDS FOR.

                                 NOW, AMERICA DIDN'T TAKE FIVE MINUTES TO FORM, IT

                    DIDN'T TAKE 15 MINUTES TO FORM, IT DIDN'T TAKE 30 MINUTES TO FORM.  IT

                    TOOK HUNDREDS OF YEARS TO DEVELOP THIS DEMOCRACY AND ESSENTIALLY

                    WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE WITH THIS RESOLUTION IS WE'RE TRYING TO

                    UNDERMINE THAT TIME THAT'S NEEDED TO DEBATE THE ISSUES THAT ARE SO

                    IMPORTANT TO MAINTAINING THE QUALITY OF THAT DEMOCRACY, TO MAKE SURE

                    THAT THIS COUNTRY REMAINS FREE, THAT WE HAVE ROBUST DIALOG, THAT

                    REPRESENTATIVES FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE CAN LOOK AT EACH OTHER,

                    MOST OF THE TIME BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, OBVIOUSLY, BUT WE CAN LOOK AT

                    EACH OTHER AND WE CAN REALLY FIGURE THE BEST WAY TO TAKE CARE OF THE

                    BEST INTERESTS OF THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                         29



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST THIS RESOLUTION BECAUSE THIS

                    RESOLUTION FLIES IN THE FACE OF A FREE DEMOCRACY.  IT FLIES IN THE FACE OF

                    FREE SPEECH, AND IT FLIES IN THE FACE OF WHY WE'RE HERE AS A BODY TO

                    DEBATE AN ISSUE, DEBATE THE ISSUES AND TO MAKE SURE WE DO WHAT'S IN THE

                    BEST INTERESTS OF THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MS. MILLER.

                                 MS. MILLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    MA'AM.

                                 MS. MILLER:  YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS YOUNGER I WAS

                    TAUGHT A BASIC PRINCIPAL, TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WOULD WANT THEM TO

                    TREAT YOU.  AND CAN I ASK YOU HONESTLY, IF YOU'RE TRULY HONEST WITH

                    YOURSELF, IF OUR ROLES WERE REVERSED FOR JUST THIS DAY FOR THIS RULE, WOULD

                    YOU WANT THIS IMPOSED ON YOU?  WE WERE ELECTED TO REPRESENT ALL OF

                    OUR CONSTITUENTS, ALL OF THEM, DESPITE WHATEVER PARTY THEY'RE FROM.

                    LIMITING OUR ONLY ABILITY TO DISAGREE WITH CERTAIN LEGISLATION IS

                    SILENCING THE VOICES OF THE NEW YORK STATE RESIDENTS.

                                 I HAVE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I'M WATCHING THIS ON ZOOM.

                    A LOT OF OUR MEMBERS, I CAN SEE WHILE WE'RE DEBATING THIS, WE DON'T

                    EVEN HAVE THE RESPECT OF MANY OF YOUR ATTENTION.  THEY'RE NOT EVEN

                    INTERESTED IN WHAT WE'RE SAYING DEBATING THIS RULES CHANGE.  THEY'RE

                    TALKING ON THE PHONE, THEY'RE TALKING TO OTHER PEOPLE.  THIS IS NOT

                                         30



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    DEMOCRACY.  SHAME ON THE MAJORITY.  I AM -- I AM DEEPLY

                    DISAPPOINTED.  YOU'RE SILENCING NEW YORK STATE RESIDENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LEMONDES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I, LIKE SO

                    MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES, AM WORRIED ABOUT THIS.  I -- I THINK IT'S A -- IT'S

                    A CHILLING AFFECT, IT'S AN ATTACK ON INHERENT RIGHTS.  IT'S A RULE CHANGE, OF

                    COURSE, BUT NOT ONE THAT BENEFITS ANY CITIZEN OF NEW YORK STATE.  I

                    SPECIFICALLY BELIEVE IT'S AN INFRINGEMENT ON THE FIRST AMENDMENT.  AND

                    FOR THE 133,000 PEOPLE THAT I REPRESENT, THEY DON'T WANT ME STIFLED.  I

                    AM THEIR VOICE IN THIS HOUSE, AND THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR

                    VOICE IS HEARD.

                                 THIS STIFLES FREE DEBATE.  AND IN ORDER TO SOLVE

                    PROBLEMS, NO MATTER WHETHER IT'S A SIMPLE PROBLEM OR A COMPLEX

                    PROBLEM, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO LISTEN.  THAT REQUIRES RESPECT.  AND

                    THEN FROM THAT, YOU HAVE FREE DEBATES.  AND THEN HOPEFULLY AFTER THAT,

                    YOU CAN LAND ON A GOOD SOLUTION, OR THE BEST ONE FOR THE MOST AMOUNT

                    OF PEOPLE.  WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO INTERACT, WE CAN'T SOLVE PROBLEMS ON

                    THE -- FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR CONSTITUENTS IN AN OPTIMAL WAY.  I WILL VOTE

                    NO ON THIS BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT'S AN INFRINGEMENT ON THE FIRST

                    AMENDMENT.  I BELIEVE IT STIFLES THE PROFESSIONAL INTERACTION WHICH WE

                    WERE ALL ELECTED TO PERFORM AND THAT THE PEOPLE'S VOICE NEED TO BE

                                         31



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    HEARD -- PEOPLE'S VOICES NEED TO BE HEARD THROUGH US.  THEY CANNOT

                    WITH THIS LEGISLATION.  FOR THAT REASON, I WILL VOTE NO AND I ASK EVERY

                    SINGLE COLLEAGUE TO CONSIDER THE SAME AND VOTE NO WITH ME.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. DURSO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. DURSO:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THIS RESOLUTION I HAVE

                    FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK.  I PROMISE YOU I WILL NOT TAKE UP ALL THAT TIME.

                    ALSO ON -- NORMALLY, WE HAVE TWO 15-MINUTE TIME PERIODS TO SPEAK.  I

                    CAN GUARANTEE YOU RIGHT NOW I WOULD NEVER USE THAT WHOLE 30 MINUTES,

                    THAT'S JUST ME, BUT I HAVE THE OPTION TO DO IT.  I HAVE THE OPTION TO HAVE

                    THE VOICES HEARD OF MY CONSTITUENTS.  THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.  IT'S

                    PRETTY QUIET, THERE'S NOT MANY PEOPLE IN HERE RIGHT NOW, INCLUDING OUR

                    OWN LEGISLATORS.  NOW, THEY'RE ON ZOOM, THEY'RE IN THEIR OFFICES

                    BECAUSE WE'RE LIMITED IN THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT WE CAN HAVE IN THIS

                    ROOM AT ONE TIME.  UP IN THE RAFTERS, THERE'S NO ONE HERE.  OUT IN THE

                    HALLWAYS, IN THE LOB, THERE'S -- NOBODY'S HERE, NOBODY'S VOICES RIGHT

                    NOW DUE TO COVID ARE BEING HEARD.  SO OUR CONSTITUENTS COME TO US

                    WITH THEIR ISSUES, WITH THEIR PROBLEMS, WITH THEIR CONCERNS.  AND WE

                    ARE THEIR VOICES HERE IN THE LEGISLATURE.  AND TO LIMIT OUR VOICES FOR

                    OUR CONSTITUENTS IS A PROBLEM.

                                         32



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 I WAS ELECTED TO THIS OFFICE BY MY CONSTITUENTS, LIKE

                    EVERYBODY ELSE HERE, DOESN'T MATTER WHAT LETTER COMES AFTER YOUR NAME,

                    TO REPRESENT THEM AND THEIR NEEDS NO MATTER WHAT PARTY THEY ARE, BUT BY

                    SILENCING US, BY SILENCING ANY MEMBER IN THIS LEGISLATURE, YOU ARE

                    SILENCING ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WE ALL REPRESENT.  LIMITING OUR TIME FROM

                    30 MINUTES TO 15 MINUTES MAY NOT SEEM LIKE A BIG DEAL TO A LOT AND

                    AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, I PROMISE YOU, MR. SPEAKER, I'LL MORE THAN LIKELY

                    NEVER USE THAT 30 MINUTES, BUT IT'S THERE IN CASE.  IT'S THERE IN CASE THERE

                    IS A BILL THAT WE ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT, A BILL THAT AFFECTS OUR AREA,

                    AFFECTS OUR CONSTITUENTS, AFFECTS THE PEOPLE THAT WE CARE ABOUT.  THOSE

                    ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ELECTED US TO REPRESENT THEM.  I WAS ELECTED BY

                    130,000 PEOPLE.  NOT EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT VOTED FOR ME WAS A

                    REPUBLICAN.  I REPRESENT EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN MY DISTRICT THE SAME

                    AND I DO WITH PRIDE, BUT BY LIMITING OUR VOICES, YOU ARE LIMITING THE

                    VOICES OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE REPRESENT.  I DON'T THINK THAT ANYONE HERE

                    SHOULD VOTE YES FOR THAT.  YOU'RE VOTING YES TO LIMIT THE VOICES OF ALL

                    OUR CONSTITUENTS IN THIS BODY.  SO I ASK EVERYONE TO VOTE NO.  THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. BYRNES.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  MAY I BE

                    HEARD ON THE RESOLUTION?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SPEAK ON THE

                    RESOLUTION, MA'AM.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  THANK YOU.  I APPRECIATE THE

                                         33



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    OPPORTUNITY.  I DON'T THINK HE'S HERE NOW, BUT I KNOW MR. HEASTIE WAS

                    HERE EARLIER, I WISH HE HAD STAYED AND WAS STILL IN THE ROOM.  IN THIS

                    BODY, THE DEMOCRATS OUTNUMBER THE REPUBLICANS 107 TO 43.  WE HAVE

                    NO ABILITY TO STOP A BILL ONCE IT GETS TO THE FLOOR.  BUT, IT'S BEEN POINTED

                    OUT BEFORE, WE CAN AT LEAST RAISE IMPORTANT ISSUES.  WE CAN RAISE

                    CONCERNS AND A LOT OF THOSE BEAR FRUIT WHEN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE

                    MAKES DECISIONS WHETHER OR NOT TO SIGN A BILL OR VETO A BILL.  SO THERE IS

                    PURPOSE.

                                 I TELL MY CONSTITUENTS IF THEY'RE ELECTING ME, EVEN

                    THOUGH I CANNOT AFFECT POLICY IN THIS STATE BECAUSE I WILL BE THEIR VOICE.

                    I'LL BE THE VOICE FOR MY REGION IN UPSTATE NEW YORK STATE.  I WILL BE

                    THEIR VOICE.  AND I REPRESENT OVER 30,000 REGISTERED DEMOCRATS.  WE

                    ALL REPRESENT ABOUT 133,000 PEOPLE, MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN.  MANY

                    OF MY CONSTITUENTS ARE DEMOCRATS AND THEY SENT ME HERE ALSO TO BE

                    THEIR VOICE FOR OUR REGION, WHICH MAY HAVE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT

                    ISSUES FOR REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS THAN IT DOES IN OTHER PLACES IN

                    THE STATE.  BUT THEY WERE UNITED IN SENDING ME HERE.  IF THIS RESOLUTION

                    PASSES, THIS WILL NO LONGER BE THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.  SILENCING

                    OPPOSITION AND SILENCING AND LIMITING DEBATE IS THE ANTITHESIS TO

                    DEMOCRACY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE MADAM FLOOR LEADER YIELD FOR A COUPLE QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MADAM MAJORITY

                                         34



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    LEADER, WILL YOU YIELD?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES, I WILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE MAJORITY LEADER

                    YIELDS, SIR.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU MR. SPEAKER, AND

                    THANK YOU, MADAM.  GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE AND MY CONDOLENCES ON THE

                    BUFFALO BILLS NOT --

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  NO CONDOLENCES

                    NECESSARY, IT WAS A GREAT GAME.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT

                    I'VE BEEN -- WE HAVE LISTENED TO ALREADY IS THERE ARE 150 MEMBERS ON

                    THIS FLOOR.  IF WE'RE ONLY ALLOWED FOUR HOURS OF DEBATE AND EACH ONE OF

                    THOSE MEMBERS TAKES 15 MINUTES, WHO CHOOSES THE 16 MEMBERS THAT

                    ARE GOING TO DEBATE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  I THINK THAT WOULD BE UP

                    TO THE INDIVIDUAL MEMBER IF THEY CHOOSE TO DEBATE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO IS IT -- IS IT GOING TO BE

                    DONE ON WHO PUSHES THE BUTTON FIRST?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE UP

                    TO THE MEMBER IF THEY CHOOSE TO DEBATE.  AS A MATTER OF FACT, I WANT TO

                    SAY THAT MOST OF YOUR COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE BEEN DEBATING THE

                    RESOLUTION BEFORE US TODAY HAVE NOT EVEN USED THE FIVE MINUTES THAT'S

                    ALLOTTED TO THEM.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  NO, NO; I UNDERSTAND THAT.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  OKAY.

                                         35



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  BUT THANK YOU.  BUT ON SOME

                    OF THE BILLS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED IN THIS -- IN THIS CHAMBERS, THE

                    VACCINE BILL, THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ACT, ALL THOSE BILLS, COULD YOU

                    IMAGINE ONLY 16 MEMBERS BEING ABLE TO DEBATE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  SOMETIMES THAT'S ALL IT

                    TAKES, COLLEAGUE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  SOMETIMES THAT'S ALL IT

                    TAKES AND OUR RESPECTIVE COLLEAGUES CAN -- CAN NOTICE THAT AND SEE THAT

                    AND CHOOSE NOT TO INSIST ON HAVING 15 MINUTES OR FIVE MINUTES OR THREE

                    MINUTES.  I MEAN, I'LL HONESTLY SAY I REPRESENT 130,000 PEOPLE, TOO, AND

                    A LOT OF THEM WATCH THIS ALL THE TIME AND THEY WANT TO KNOW WHY IS IT

                    TAKING EVERYBODY SO LONG TO SAY THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN?

                    AND I SAID IT'S ABOUT DEBATE AND IT'S IMPORTANT, AND I FEEL THAT IT'S

                    IMPORTANT, BUT SOMETIMES IT'S ABOUT DEBATE AND SOMETIMES IT'S ABOUT

                    GRANDSTANDING.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  I'D RATHER STAY ON THE

                    DEBATE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    FLOOR LEADER.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  AS THE MADAM LEADER JUST

                    STATED, SOMETIMES WE HEAR IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER ON THIS

                                         36



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    FLOOR, ESPECIALLY DURING DEBATES.  BUT I CAN TELL YOU WHAT, THAT'S WHERE I

                    LEARN, THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF US LEARN.  I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT THE

                    WORD DISCRIMINATION.  I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT COMMUNITIES OF

                    COLOR.  SO IF THIS GOES THROUGH AND THE RESIDENTS IN MY DISTRICT, AS WELL

                    AS EVERY DISTRICT, HOW ARE WE GOING TO STIFLE THOSE MINORITY RESIDENTS?

                    HOW IS IT FATHOMABLE THAT ON THIS FLOOR WE TALK ABOUT THE VOICES NEED

                    TO BE HEARD, WE TALK ABOUT THE RIGHT THAT THEY HAVE TO VOTE.  THEY HAVE

                    A RIGHT TO BE HEARD HERE THROUGH THEIR ELECTED OFFICIAL.  I DON'T CARE

                    WHAT PART OF THE STATE YOU'RE FROM, I DON'T CARE WHAT MINORITY WE'RE

                    LOOKING AT.  THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HEARD.  AND FOR EVERYTHING I HAVE

                    HEARD HERE FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS ABOUT REPRESENTATION AND ABOUT

                    HELPING MEMBERS OF MINORITIES, OF COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, IN MY DISTRICT

                    WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT AWAY BECAUSE IF I DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO

                    DEBATE AND LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO -- THAT THESE MEMBERS

                    KNOW IT WAS IMPORTANT TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS BACK IN MY DISTRICT, HOW IS

                    THAT FAIR?

                                 I JUST -- THIS IS -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS.  AND AS I

                    SAID, I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH.  WHEN WE VOTE HERE, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT

                    THE MEMBERS OF OUR DISTRICT, IT'S ABOUT ALL OF THEM, WHETHER IT'S THE ONES

                    THAT ARE SITTING AT THESE CHAIRS, THE ONES UP IN FRONT OF THE SPEAKER'S

                    PODIUM, THE STAFF IN THE BACK, WHEN WE VOTE, WE VOTE FOR EACH ONE OF

                    YOU.  WHEN WE SPEAK, WE SPEAK FOR EACH ONE OF YOU AS WELL.  DO YOU

                    WANT YOUR VOICES TO BE HEARD OR NOT?  THIS IS WHAT THIS BILL WILL DO.

                    HOW ON EARTH IS THIS A GOOD THING?  HOW ON EARTH WILL THIS HELP ALL OF

                    NEW YORK MOVE FORWARD?  HOW WILL WE EVER COMPETE IN THE WORLD?

                                         37



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    HOW WILL WE BE THE EMPIRE STATE AGAIN?

                                 SO I'M ASKING ALL MEMBERS, I'M NOT GOING TO TALK

                    ABOUT AISLES, PLEASE THINK ABOUT THIS, PLEASE VOTE NO.  THIS IS NOT A GOOD

                    BILL.  AND THANK YOU FOR THE TIME, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. GIGLIO.

                                 MR. GIGLIO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. GIGLIO:  THANK YOU AGAIN.  YOU KNOW, I HAVE

                    BEEN A HERE A LONG TIME NOW AND EVERY TIME I WALK OVER FROM THE LOB

                    INTO THE CAPITOL AND THESE CHAMBERS, I THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT

                    HAVE COME BEFORE US AND HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE ARE NOW.  AND WE

                    LIKE TO TALK IN THIS CHAMBER A LOT ABOUT HOW NEW YORK WAS A LEADER

                    AND THAT WE LED THE WAY IN THE NATION.  AND A LOT OF THAT HISTORY IS TRUE.

                    SO AS I SIT HERE TODAY AND LISTEN TO THIS -- THIS DEBATE, I ASK MYSELF

                    WHERE ARE WE GOING AND WHY?  AND I REALLY CAN'T COME UP WITH A GOOD

                    ANSWER.  BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT CAME BEFORE US MADE TOUGH DECISIONS

                    ON THIS FLOOR DEBATING THEM.  THE PEOPLE THAT OCCUPY THESE CHAMBERS,

                    THAT OCCUPY THESE SEATS ARE THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE THE FUTURE AND IT'S

                    VERY IMPORTANT TO THEM.

                                 SO THOSE THAT HAVE CAME BEFORE US CREATED ALL OF THIS,

                    THIS GREAT NEW YORK STATE.  AND I WONDER TO MYSELF, WHY WOULD WE

                    CHANGE IT THAT MUCH?  IT GETS TEDIOUS IN HERE, NO DOUBT; NO DOUBT IT GETS

                                         38



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    VERY TEDIOUS SOMETIMES AND YOU WONDER, AGAIN, I DON'T UNDERSTAND

                    WHY SOMEBODY WOULD BRING UP THIS KIND OF RULE, BUT I ALSO KNOW IT'S

                    NOT A GOOD RULE BECAUSE WHAT WE LEARN ON THESE FLOORS -- WHEN I WALK

                    INTO THESE CHAMBERS, A LOT OF TIMES I HAVEN'T MADE DECISIONS ABOUT THE

                    BILLS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE -- BE BEFORE US.  I MAKE THEM AFTER I HEAR

                    THE DEBATE AND THEY MAKE GOOD JUDGMENT.  SOMETIMES I MAKE THEM

                    AFTER THE MAJORITY LEADER CLOSES WITH SOME WISDOM, OR SOMEBODY ELSE

                    CLOSES, OR WHEN THE SPEAKER COMES OUT AND WE OPEN SESSION AND WE

                    OPEN IT WITH ALL THAT HOPE.  I DON'T WANT TO LOSE ANY OF THAT.  I WANT TO

                    STAND ON THE SHOULDERS OF THE PEOPLE THAT CAME BEFORE US.  I WANT THOSE

                    NOW TO WORK VERY HARD FOR THOSE WHO COME AFTER US AND STAND ON OUR

                    SHOULDERS AND WE CAN BE PROUD OF THE WORK THAT HAPPENS HERE IN THESE

                    CHAMBERS.  AND I AM PROUD OF IT AND I AM PROUD TO SERVE AND I AM

                    PROUD TO SIT IN THIS SEAT.  AND I ASK FOR EVERYBODY THAT COMES FROM NOW

                    ON AND THAT COMES AFTER US, THEY GET THE SAME OPPORTUNITY THAT I HAVE

                    BEEN GOD GIVEN AND THANKFUL TO HAVE.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. MILLER.

                                 MR. MILLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. MILLER:  I HAVE SAT HERE AND I HAVE LISTENED TO

                    THIS DEBATE FOR AN HOUR OR SO RIGHT NOW.  AND I THINK ONE THING THAT'S

                                         39



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    BEEN SAID, MY COLLEAGUE TO MY RIGHT WHO JUST SAID IT, I'M GOING TO SAY IT

                    A LITTLE DIFFERENT WAY.  I'M ONE MEMBER WHO IS ONE OF 150 WHO

                    REPRESENTS 19.2 MILLION PEOPLE, AND WE'RE MAKING DECISIONS FOR 19.2

                    MILLION PEOPLE HERE IN THIS CHAMBERS.  AND I DON'T CARE HOW LONG IT

                    TAKES FOR US TO DEBATE A BILL, TALK ABOUT A BILL, ARGUE ABOUT A BILL, THOSE

                    19.2 MILLION PEOPLE DESERVE EVERY MOMENT WE CAN GIVE THEM.

                                 I'M JUST GOING TO USE MY ENGINEER BACKGROUND FOR A

                    LITTLE WHILE HERE.  YOU KNOW, WHEN I FIRST CAME TO ALBANY, SOMEBODY

                    ASKED ME WHAT I DID.  I TOLD THEM I WAS AN ENGINEER.  THEY SAID, YOU'RE

                    NOT GOING TO FIT VERY WELL HERE.  WELL, I THINK I FIT VERY WELL HERE AND

                    I'M VERY PROUD OF BEING AN ENGINEER, AND I'M EXTREMELY PROUD OF BEING

                    AN ASSEMBLYMEMBER.  BUT THE FIRST THING WE DO IS A ROOT CAUSE

                    ANALYSIS.  OKAY, SO OUR ROOT CAUSE IS ONE ROUND OF 15 MINUTE DEBATE

                    AND CAN'T DO THAT WITH ANOTHER 15 MINUTE DEBATE.  THAT'S AN ISSUE.  AND

                    THEN WE'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH A CORRECTIVE ACTION PLAN.  SO WE START

                    ASKING OURSELVES SOME QUESTIONS:  WHAT ARE WE HERE FOR IF NOT TO

                    DEBATE AND DISCUSS CRUCIAL LEGISLATION?  IT TAKES TIME AND WE NEED TO

                    GIVE EACH PIECE OF LEGISLATION AS MUCH TIME AS WE CAN.

                                 THIS IS HOW WE ALL COME TOGETHER, TO DEBATE AND

                    DISCUSSION.  LEARNING TAKES PLACE THROUGH INFORMED DEBATE AND

                    DISCUSSION WHICH LEADS TO A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING OF THESE VAST TOPICS.

                    NEW YORK IS INCREDIBLY DIVERSE, FROM URBAN, RURAL, A HEALTHY, LONG

                    DEBATE IS CRUCIAL TO GET BOTH SIDES LISTENING TO ONE ANOTHER AND GET ALL

                    THE VIEWPOINTS, FACTS AND INFORMATION TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS.

                                 I REPRESENT THE 101ST ASSEMBLY DISTRICT, AND IT'S

                                         40



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    PROBABLY ONE OF THE LONGEST DISTRICTS IN NEW YORK STATE, IF NOT THE

                    MOST DIVERSE.  I GO FROM NEW HARTFORD, NEW YORK WHICH IS IN THE

                    MOHAWK VALLEY UP BY UTICA ALL THE WAY TO ORANGETOWN.  NOW, ALL THAT

                    WAY, I GO THROUGH MANY, MANY REGIONS AND WE TALK -- AND WE HAVE

                    DIFFERENT ISSUES.  I SIT HERE WHEN WE'RE HERE IN THIS CHAMBERS OR IF I'M

                    HOME VIRTUALLY AND I LISTEN TO EVERY DEBATE THAT TAKES PLACE.  AND I

                    LISTEN TO THE POINTS THAT ARE MADE AND THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE -- THAT ARE

                    ASKED AND ANSWERED.  WE NEED TO GIVE THOSE 19.2 MILLION PEOPLE THEIR

                    JUST DUE ON THIS FLOOR.  AND I URGE EVERYONE TO VOTE AGAINST THIS

                    RESOLUTION.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. ASHBY.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    MAJORITY LEADER YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES,

                    WILL YOU YIELD?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES, MR. SPEAKER, IT

                    WOULD BE MY PLEASURE.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  THANK YOU.  MADAM MAJORITY LEADER,

                    WOULD YOU SAY THAT SOME OF THE DEBATES THAT WE HAVE IN HERE CAN YIELD

                    SOME POSITIVE CHANGES TO THE LEGISLATION THAT'S BEST?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES; YEAH, I DO.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  WOULD YOU SAY THAT LIMITING DEBATE

                    COULD ALSO LIMIT POSITIVE CHANGES TO THE LEGISLATION THAT IS PASSED HERE?

                                         41



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  NO, I WOULD NOT AGREE

                    WITH THAT.  I NOTICE THAT MANY OF THE SAME PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT WE

                    PASS ON REGULAR BASIS YEAR AFTER YEAR, OR HOWEVER MUCH AFTER THE SENATE

                    GETS DONE AN HOUR OR TWO, AND THEY DEBATE, TOO.  SO SOMETIMES DEBATE

                    IS NECESSARY TO BE EXTENSIVE, BUT I DON'T THINK THIS WILL BE NECESSARY TO

                    DEBATES MORE EXTENSIVE THAN 15 MINUTES PER PERSON.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  SO JUST THINKING BACK TO THE

                    LIMITATIONS THAT WE'VE SEEN DURING COVID AND DURING THE MANY

                    CHANGES THAT THIS CHAMBER HAS SEEN DURING THAT TIME AND OUR ABILITY TO

                    DEBATE THAT'S BEEN LIMITED, AND THE NUMBER OF BILLS THAT HAVE BEEN

                    BROUGHT UP THAT'S BEEN LIMITED, AND OUR ABILITY TO SPEAK THAT'S BEEN

                    LIMITED, YOU DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S ANY POSSIBILITY THAT THINGS HAVE

                    BEEN LOST ON THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK BECAUSE OF THESE LIMITATIONS?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  ACTUALLY AGAIN, SIR, I

                    DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE'S BEEN ANYTHING LOST AT ALL.  I THINK PROBABLY

                    ONCE THESE RULES WERE PUT INTO EFFECT THERE WAS NOT TV TIME LIKE IT IS

                    NOW, THERE'S NOT SOCIAL MEDIA TIME LIKE IT IS NOW.  THERE WAS NOT A/V

                    EQUIPMENT SITTING IN AND AROUND OUR CHAMBERS.  THERE WAS NOT ACCESS

                    TO INDEPENDENT AND INDIVIDUAL RADIO AND TV IN THE CAPITOL THAT

                    MEMBERS HAVE THE AVAILABILITY TO USE ON A REGULAR BASIS TO

                    COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR CONSTITUENCY.  SO YOU KNOW, I THINK, YOU

                    KNOW WHAT, SOMETIMES TIMES CHANGE AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE MOVE

                    WITH THOSE TIMES TO ALLOW US TO GET THROUGH THE SAME NUMBER OF PIECES

                    OF LEGISLATION THAT WE CAN GET THROUGH DURING THE COURSE OF A YEAR THAT

                    WILL PROVIDE ADDED VALUE TO THE CONSTITUENCY THAT WE ALL SERVE.

                                         42



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MR. ASHBY:  AND THOSE MEASURES ARE SO IMPORTANT

                    THAT THEY NEED TO BE MADE PERMANENT, NOT LIKE SOME OF THE OTHER

                    CHANGES THAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO DURING THIS PANDEMIC

                    WHERE THEY'VE HAD SUNSET CLAUSES AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOW MAKING IT

                    PERMANENTS CHANGES TO HERE.  I JUST -- I -- I THINK OF ALL THE THINGS THAT

                    HAVE HAPPENED AND THE TALK OF OVERREACH ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE,

                    RIGHT, PAST ADMINISTRATIONS WHAT THEY'VE DONE, AND HOW SOMETHING LIKE

                    THAT SEEMS TO RESEMBLE THAT TYPE OF OVERREACH.  IT SEEMS TO RESEMBLE

                    THAT TYPE OF ATTITUDE WHERE, WE MAY NOT BE INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU HAVE

                    TO SAY, WE'RE JUST GOING TO TRY AND PUSH THIS THROUGH.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  WELL, THAT'S THE FURTHEST

                    THING FROM MY MINDSET, COLLEAGUE.  I AM INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU HAVE TO

                    SAY.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  WELL, I -- I APPRECIATE THAT.  I ALSO

                    THINK OF ALL THE BILLS FANS LAST NIGHT, RIGHT, YOU BEING ONE OF THEM,

                    MYSELF BEING ONE OF THEM, WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN GRATEFUL FOR AN

                    OPPORTUNITY TO REPLY, BUT THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO, WERE THEY?  I THINK THEY

                    CALLED IT SUDDEN DEATH, RIGHT, AND IT SEEMS TO RESEMBLE A LITTLE BIT WHAT'S

                    GOING ON HERE IN TERMS OF HOW WE'RE LIMITING DEBATE AND LIMITING THE

                    ABILITY OF THINGS TO COME THROUGH, WOULD YOU -- COULD YOU SEE THE

                    SIMILARITY THERE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  ACTUALLY, THEY DID HAVE

                    AN OVERTIME, BUT THAT TIME FRAME, AS WELL, AND RULES, WHOEVER MAKES

                    THE FIRST SCORE, THE GAME IS OVER.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  AND THAT'S JUST A FOOTBALL GAME,

                                         43



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    MADAM MAJORITY LEADER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  IT'S JUST A GAME WHICH

                    WE ALL ENJOYED, AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY

                    SHOULD BE FEELING BAD HERE TODAY, BUT I WILL SAY THAT I HAVE BEEN CALLED

                    A LIAR TODAY, OUR FORMER COLLEAGUE HAS BEEN CALLED A POTTED PLANT, AND

                    THIS IS ALL IN THE INTEREST OF DEBATE?  THIS IS NOT DEBATE IN MANY CASES.

                    THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE GO THROUGH ON A REGULAR BASIS, IT'S

                    GRANDSTANDING.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  I DON'T THINK I'M GRANDSTANDING HERE,

                    MADAM MAJORITY LEADER.  I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER

                    MY QUESTIONS AND FOR THE DEBATE.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL BRIEFLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. ASHBY:  MR. SPEAKER, I -- I KNOW THAT THE

                    COMPARISON OF A FOOTBALL GAME VERSUS WHAT WE DO HERE IN NEW YORK

                    STATE MAY NOT BE THE BEST COMPARISON, BUT I KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT OF

                    BILLS FANS OUT THERE HURTING RIGHT NOW WHO MAY BE ABLE TO CONNECT WITH

                    THAT.  BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY IN WHAT WE'RE LOOKING

                    AT DOING HERE IN NEW YORK STATE AND WHAT WE'VE ALL GONE THROUGH OVER

                    THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS OF HOW WE'VE ALL BEEN LIMITED IN OUR CAPACITY

                    IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, AND NOW AGAIN.  NOT JUST US HERE IN THE

                    CHAMBER ARE WE GOING TO BE LIMITED, WE ARE GOING TO BE LIMITING OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS, AT LEAST THE ONES WHO ARE CHOOSING TO STAY HERE IN THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                         44



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MR. GALLAHAN.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THANK YOU.  I WAS ELECTED IN

                    NOVEMBER OF 2020 TO REPRESENT THE 133,000 CONSTITUENTS OF MINE IN

                    THE 131ST DISTRICT, AS 149 OTHER MEMBERS WERE ALSO ELECTED AT THAT

                    SAME TIME.  COMING HERE FROM A BACKGROUND OF MANY YEARS IN SALES,

                    11 YEARS AS A -- AS A TOWN SUPERVISOR, IT WAS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO ME TO

                    SURROUND MYSELF WITH PEOPLE THAT WERE SMARTER THAN ME SO THAT THEY

                    COULD GET THE JOB DONE SO THAT I DIDN'T HAVE TO WORK SO HARD.  THAT'S

                    WHAT BUSINESS DOES.  AND PART OF THAT IS LETTING YOUR CONSTITUENTS OR

                    YOUR -- YOUR -- YOUR -- YOUR REPORTS KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

                                 SO I CAME DOWN HERE, I HAD THE FURTHEST THING FROM

                    KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING ON BECAUSE I NEVER KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON

                    UNTIL I CAME HERE AND HAD TO ASK MY -- MY COLLEAGUES HERE WHAT WAS

                    GOING ON BECAUSE NOTHING WAS EVER TOLD AHEAD OF TIME, AND I'LL GIVE

                    YOU AN EXAMPLE.  A FEW FRIDAYS AGO, A FEW MONTHS AGO I WAS

                    ENTERTAINING AT MY HOME AND -- AND ONE OF MY CONSTITUENTS THAT WAS

                    THERE CAME UP TO ME ON HER CELL PHONE AND SAID, JEFF, WHAT'S THIS?  I

                    SAID, OH, THAT'S A MASK MANDATE FROM OUR GOVERNOR, OUR TRANSPARENT

                    GOVERNOR.  I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT.  AND IT HAPPENED ON THIS --

                    ON THIS RESOLUTION TODAY.  I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THIS UNTIL I WALKED IN

                    THE BUILDING THIS MORNING.  I'M NOT A LITTLE GUY, BUT YOU COULD HAVE

                                         45



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    KNOCKED ME OVER WITH A FEATHER.

                                 IF THIS RESOLUTION WERE TO PASS, THERE'S A DISTINCT

                    POSSIBILITY THAT I MIGHT NOT GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO DEBATE A BILL OR A

                    RESOLUTION WITH THE TIME RESTRAINTS THAT ARE PROPOSED.  THIS WOULD

                    PRECLUDE 133,000 CONSTITUENTS IN MY DISTRICT FROM HAVING THEIR VOICES

                    HEARD.  THEY WOULDN'T BE REPRESENTED ON THAT BILL OR THAT RESOLUTION, AS

                    WELL AS MANY OTHER DISTRICTS, NOT JUST MINE.  THIS -- IS THIS WHAT YOU

                    CALL REPRESENTATION?  ABSOLUTELY NOT.  YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S CALLED?  A

                    GAG ORDER.  ALL VIEWS AND CONCERNS SHOULD BE HEARD.  ALL

                    ASSEMBLYMEMBERS SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEBATE ON THIS

                    FLOOR.  APPARENTLY, MANY MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY BODY, THEY DON'T

                    CARE ABOUT RESIDENTS OR OPINIONS OR VIEWS ARE, EITHER POSITIVE OR

                    NEGATIVE PERTAINING TO THESE ISSUES AT HAND.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, I'M IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS RESOLUTION AS

                    IN MY OPINION, ALL ASSEMBLYMEMBERS AND THEIR CONSTITUENTS SHOULD

                    HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD ON ALL BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS HERE IN THE

                    ASSEMBLY CHAMBER.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. BROWN.

                                 MR. BROWN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. BROWN:  MR. SPEAKER, TODAY I RISE ON BEHALF OF

                    THE 130,000 CONSTITUENTS FROM LONG ISLAND WHO HAVE EVERY RIGHT, JUST

                                         46



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    LIKE EVERY OTHER MEMBER OF THIS HOUSE, HAS A RIGHT TO BE HEARD.  NOW,

                    I'VE ONLY BEEN IN OFFICE FOR A LITTLE OVER A YEAR BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT I

                    HAVE NOT SEEN MANY BILLS THAT HAVE EVEN COME CLOSE TO THE LIMIT.  MY

                    UNDERSTANDING IS THE SAFE ACT, MEDICAL MARIHUANA, AND THE

                    MARIHUANA BILL THAT WE DEBATED LAST YEAR WERE THE ONLY ONES THAT CAME

                    CLOSE.  BUT THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO RISE AND SPEAK OUT, I -- TO USE THE

                    WORD, MR. SPEAKER, I'M OFFENDED.  I'M OFFENDED BECAUSE I KNOW FOR A

                    FACT THAT THE LEADER OF OUR CONFERENCE WAS NEVER, EVER SPOKEN TO

                    ABOUT THIS RULE CHANGE UNTIL IT WAS PROPOSED.  WAS THERE EVER AN

                    OPPORTUNITY FOR COMPROMISE?  WAS THERE EVER AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A

                    DISCUSSION?  NO, NONE.  THIS IS ONE-PARTY RULE RUN AMUCK.  THIS IS

                    ABOUT POWER.  THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFICATION, AND THE JUSTIFICATION

                    I HEARD EARLIER ABOUT THE FILIBUSTER RULES IS NONSENSE.  THE FILIBUSTER

                    RULES OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO HERE.  EVERY

                    MEMBER HAS A RIGHT TO VOTE, NO MEMBER HAS THE ABILITY TO STOP A VOTE IN

                    THIS CHAMBER, THE PEOPLE'S CHAMBER.  BUT YET, THAT'S THE EXPLANATION

                    WE HEARD.  EVERYONE HAS EQUAL TIME FOR EQUAL VOTES.  ONE HUNDRED AND

                    FIFTY PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO STAND UP AND SPEAK FOR 15 MINUTES AND AN

                    EQUAL RIGHT IF THEY WANT TO SPEAK FOR AN ADDITIONAL 15 MINUTES.  THIS

                    WILL HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT, THIS IS DESIGNED TO HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT,

                    THIS IS TO STIFLE DEBATE AND NOTHING MORE.

                                 I WANT TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION TO ALL THE MEMBERS OF

                    THIS HOUSE THAT MAY NOT BE AWARE, BUT I APPEAR OFTEN IN FRONT OF PUBLIC

                    FORUMS AND OUR OWN STATE, DEPARTMENT OF STATE, THE GOVERNOR HERSELF

                    AND THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAS PROMULGATED RULES FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS,

                                         47



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    AND THE RULES SAY THERE'S NO LIMIT ON THE AMOUNT OF DEBATE.  THERE IS,

                    HOWEVER, LIMITS ON SPEAKERS TO SPEAK FOR TWO TO THREE MINUTES, BUT

                    THERE'S NO OVERRIDING RULE ON THE AMOUNT OF TIME.  AND THE REASON FOR

                    THAT IS BECAUSE IN THE DISCOURSE IS WHERE COMPROMISE COMES IN.  IN THE

                    DISCOURSE BETWEEN PEOPLE, RATIONAL PEOPLE, THERE IS AN EXCHANGE OF

                    IDEAS, THE MUTUAL EXCHANGE OF IDEAS.

                                 I'M GOING TO READ YOU THE DEFINITION OF THE

                    MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS IF I CAN FIND IT ON MY PHONE, AND IT SAYS, THE

                    MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS:  THE CONCEPT THAT WITHIN A SOCIETY DIFFERENT

                    (INAUDIBLE) CAN FREELY COMPETE WITH ONE ANOTHER IN AN OPEN,

                    TRANSPARENT, PUBLIC DISCOURSE INSTEAD OF BEING CENSORED BY THE

                    GOVERNMENT OR SOME PART OF SOCIETY.  IF THAT DOESN'T APPLY HERE, MR.

                    SPEAKER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT DOES.  THERE'S 19 MILLION NEW YORKERS, 19

                    MILLION PEOPLE WHO NEED TO BE HEARD AND MANY TIMES, MY

                    UNDERSTANDING IN THE SHORT TIME I'VE BEEN HERE AND DURING THE DEBATE,

                    WE BRING UP VERY GOOD IDEAS, IDEAS THAT THE GOVERNOR LISTENS TO THAT ARE

                    MADE IN A FORM OF AMENDMENTS TO BILLS THAT ARE LATER TAKEN UP BY THIS

                    HOUSE, AND THE BILLS ARE OF TRUTH.  AND THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE

                    EXERCISE.  THIS RESOLUTION BEFORE US TODAY IS UN-AMERICAN, IT'S

                    AUTHORITARIAN, AND IT'S UNDEMOCRATIC.  IT'S A JOKE AND I VOTE NO.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. SIMPSON.

                                 MR. SIMPSON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                         48



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. SIMPSON:  THE MERITS OF WORKING IN THE SPIRIT

                    OF COOPERATION AND COLLABORATION IS BORNE OUT OF THE IDEA THAT WHEN WE

                    COME TOGETHER AND SHARE WITH ONE ANOTHER A DIVERSE SET OF IDEAS ON A

                    GIVEN SUBJECT, WE WILL FIND COMMON GROUND SOLUTIONS THAT BETTER

                    REPRESENT US ALL.  WHAT IS DISHEARTENING TO ME THE MOST ABOUT THIS

                    RESOLUTION IS NOT THAT THIS SIGNIFICANTLY DEFLATES THAT VERY SPIRIT, IT IS THAT

                    THIS RESOLUTION IS A SECOND STEP IN DEFLATING THE SPIRIT OF CIVIL DISCOURSE

                    HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  WHAT BEGAN AS A TEMPORARY MEASURE IS

                    NOW BEING MADE PERMANENT UNDER THE GUISE OF HAVING MORE TIME TO

                    GET MORE INFORMATION TO OUR CONSTITUENTS.

                                 I COME FROM A DISTRICT WHO JUST LAST WEEK, ONE OF THE

                    COUNTIES ADDED AN ADDITIONAL MONTHLY COUNTY BOARD MEETING

                    SPECIFICALLY FOR MORE DEBATE AND MORE DISCUSSION, MORE TRANSPARENCY;

                    QUITE THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TODAY.  I THINK THEY HAVE IT

                    RIGHT, MORE DEBATE, MORE DISCUSSION LEADS TO BETTER DECISIONS, BETTER

                    DECISIONS FOR THE NEW YORKERS THAT WE REPRESENT.  I HAVE THE

                    UNFORTUNATE DISTINCTION OF NOT EVER BEING ABLE TO REPRESENT MY DISTRICT

                    IN A NON-COVID ATMOSPHERE.  THIS RESOLUTION WILL MAKE ELEMENTS OF

                    THE COVID-ERA GOVERNING PERMANENT, NOT BECAUSE IT IS WHAT THE VOTERS

                    HAVE ASKED FOR, BUT BECAUSE OF WHAT?  THIS RESOLUTION HAS A DEAFENING

                    TONE TO IT AND I EMPHATICALLY IMPLORE ALL OF YOU TO VOTE THIS DOWN.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                                         49



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    SIMPSON.

                                 MS. GIGLIO.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  DOES THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES, I WOULD LIKE THAT.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  THANK YOU.  SO HOW WILL THE 16

                    PEOPLE THAT WILL BE ABLE TO SPEAK WITHIN THOSE FOUR HOURS BE CHOSEN?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  I'M SORRY, COULD YOU

                    REPEAT THAT?

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  HOW -- SO THERE'S FOUR SPEAKERS AN

                    HOUR FOR FOUR HOURS, 16 PEOPLE PLUS THE TWO FLOOR LEADERS.  HOW WILL

                    THOSE PEOPLE BE CHOSEN TO SPEAK IN A DEBATE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  IN THE SIMILAR PROCESS

                    THAT WE USE NOW, COLLEAGUE.  YOU PUSH YOUR BUTTON, YOUR NAME GOES

                    ON A LIST AND YOU GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  SO WITH THE LIMITED NUMBER OF PEOPLE

                    THAT CAN BE IN THE CHAMBER, HOW -- ARE WE GOING TO KEEP PEOPLE

                    OUTSIDE THAT MAY HAVE TO RUSH IN?  IS IT GOING TO BE LIKE A GAME SHOW

                    WHERE YOU HAVE TO RUSH IN, EVERYBODY HAS TO RUSH IN AND PRESS THEIR

                    BUTTON FIRST SO THEY GET TO, YOU KNOW, SPEAK?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  NO, I THINK OUR

                    COLLEAGUES ARE PRETTY GOOD AT KEEPING UP WITH THE CALENDAR AND

                    REALIZING WHEN SOMETHING IS ON THE FLOOR THAT THEY'D LIKE TO MAKE

                                         50



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    COMMENTS ON, AND THEY CAN COME ON THE FLOOR AND DO SO.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  I FEEL SORRY FOR WAYNE, HE'S GOT A

                    TOUGH JOB AS IT IS AND THIS JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT

                    CRAZY IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS GOING TO SPEAK ON WHAT BILL.  BUT I

                    THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.

                    BY THE WAY, WAYNE HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE, HE'S USED TO A TOUGH JOB,

                    HE CAN DO IT.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  SO I UNDERSTAND THAT WE WANT TO MOVE

                    BILLS ALONG AND I UNDERSTAND THAT SOMETIMES DEBATE CAN TAKE SOME TIME

                    AND WE FEEL THAT SOME PEOPLE GRANDSTAND, BUT THAT'S THEIR RIGHT AS AN

                    ELECTED OFFICIAL, TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS.  WE -- WE

                    DEBATE VERY FEW BILLS IN A SESSION AND I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE

                    ALWAYS START LATE AND WE ALWAYS LEAVE EARLY, AND THEN IT COMES TO THE

                    LAST MONTH OR THE LAST TWO MONTHS OF SESSION AND EVERYBODY'S RUNNING

                    AROUND CRAZY.  AND IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME THAT WE ALWAYS

                    START LATE AND WE ALWAYS LEAVE EARLY.  IF WE WANT TO DEBATE MORE BILLS,

                    WE SHOULD BE DOING OUR JOBS AND WE SHOULD BE IN THE CHAMBER DOING

                    IT.

                                 SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T GET ANSWERS FROM THE SPONSOR.  I

                    MEAN, I'M NEW AT THIS AND I -- I LISTEN TO WHAT EVERYBODY SAYS AND

                    SOME SPONSORS OF BILLS ARE VERY GOOD AT RUNNING AROUND THE CIRCLES

                    WITHOUT ACTUALLY ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS AND I THINK IT'S VERY HELPFUL

                    WHEN MY COLLEAGUES PICK UP ON THAT AND MAY FOLLOW UP WITH A

                    QUESTION TO WHERE THEY CAN GET THE ANSWER FOR ME IF I'M NOT ABLE TO GET

                                         51



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    THE ANSWER THAT I'M LOOKING FOR, OR THAT I NEED TO REALLY UNDERSTAND

                    WHAT'S HAPPENING.  AND I LEARN FROM LISTENING SO I -- I APPRECIATE THE

                    DEBATES AND SOMETIMES I CHANGE MY DECISION ON BILLS AND VOTE WITH

                    THE MAJORITY BECAUSE I LISTEN TO THE DEBATE AND I TAKE EVERYTHING INTO

                    CONSIDERATION.  WE HAVE DIFFERENT CHALLENGES AND UNIQUE DISTRICTS AND

                    EVERY BILL THAT'S PASSED APPLIES TO A DISTRICT IN A DIFFERENT WAY.  SO WE

                    NEED TO GET THE ANSWERS FOR OUR CONSTITUENTS SO WE CAN BRING IT BACK TO

                    THEM AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE -- WE NEED TO GET THE ANSWERS, WE NEED TO

                    KNOW HOW IT'S GOING TO AFFECT THE PEOPLE IN OUR DISTRICTS.

                                 I DEBATED A BILL AND WHEN I SAID I WANTED TO DEBATE,

                    THE FLOOR SPEAKER SAID -- THE FLOOR LEADER SAID, WHY DO YOU WANT TO

                    DEBATE THIS BILL, THIS BILL HAS PASSED UNANIMOUSLY SINCE 2014 EVERY

                    SINGLE YEAR.  AND BY THE TIME I GOT DONE DEBATING THE BILL, MANY OF THE

                    MEMBERSHIP ON BOTH SIDES VOTED AGAINST THE BILL.  DEBATE IS IMPORTANT,

                    IT REALLY IS AND IT REALLY -- IT BRINGS THINGS OUT THAT SOMEBODY MAY HAVE

                    NOT LOOKED AT IT IN THAT PARTICULAR WAY.

                                 THERE'S A LOT OF TALK RIGHT NOW ABOUT VOTER SUPPRESSION

                    AND I REALLY FEEL THAT THIS IS SUPPRESSING MY RIGHT TO SPEAK AS AN ELECTED

                    OFFICIAL, SUPPRESSING MY RIGHT TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MY CONSTITUENTS.

                    AND WE TALK ABOUT FILIBUSTER, YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

                    COULDN'T STOP THE FILIBUSTER WITHOUT THE VOTES, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES

                    AND IN MY OPINION, THIS IS A WAY OF GETTING AROUND DEMOCRACY BY

                    CHANGING THE RULES.  I VOTE NO AND I ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

                    THIS IS SENDING A MESSAGE TO ALL OF US THAT THEY REALLY DON'T WANT TO

                    HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY AND I JUST THINK IT'S WRONG.  THANK YOU.

                                         52



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    GIGLIO.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH.

                                 YOU NEED TO UNMUTE, MR. MCDONOUGH.

                                 YOU'RE STILL MUTED.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH, SIR, COULD YOU UNMUTE YOUR ZOOM?

                    THERE WE GO.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  WE CAN, SIR,

                    THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  I'M SORRY.  THEY WEREN'T

                    ALLOWING ME TO UNMUTE FOR A MOMENT THERE.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE

                    RESOLUTION, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  OKAY, THANK YOU.  AND WOULD

                    THE MAJORITY LEADER PLEASE YIELD FOR A QUESTION?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES, OF COURSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE MAJORITY

                    LEADER YIELDS.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  THANK YOU, MADAM LEADER.

                    I'M CURIOUS.  I'M NOT THERE BECAUSE OF COVID SO I'M DOING THIS BY

                    ZOOM, BUT I HAVE WATCHED EVERY SESSION EVERY DAY THAT I'M NOT THERE

                    AND I'M VERY CURIOUS BECAUSE I'VE BEEN HERE 20 YEARS IN THE ASSEMBLY

                                         53



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    AND I'VE NEVER SEEN A DEBATE WHERE NOT ONE PERSON IN THE MAJORITY HAS

                    SPOKEN.  AND I THINK THAT'S RATHER UNUSUAL AND IT RAISES THE QUESTION

                    HAVE THEY BEEN INSTRUCTED OR RECOMMENDED NOT TO SPEAK ON THIS BILL?  I

                    CAN'T BELIEVE THAT OVER 100 MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY, TWO-THIRDS OF

                    THE ASSEMBLY, NOBODY HAS AN OPINION TO SPEAK OUT ON THIS BILL OTHER

                    THAN YOURSELF AND I'M CURIOUS, WAS THERE ANY INSTRUCTION TO THESE

                    PEOPLE NOT TO TALK ON THIS BILL?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  SIR, THAT'S NOT AN

                    INSTRUCTION THAT I OR SPEAKER HEASTIE WOULD GIVE TO OUR COLLEAGUES.

                    THAT IS THEIR DECISION AND, BY THE WAY, THEY STILL HAVE TIME TO WEIGH IN.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  WELL, I THANK YOU.  I'VE NEVER

                    SEEN THAT BEFORE.  THANK YOU.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MR. MCDONOUGH:  I WILL ECHO ALL OF THE THINGS

                    THAT MY COLLEAGUES IN THE MINORITY HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT, AND I WON'T

                    REPEAT THEM ALL, BUT THIS IS A VERY, VERY UNUSUAL DAY.  AND AS I SAID, I'VE

                    BEEN HERE 20 YEARS AND I'VE NEVER SEEN IT HAPPEN THIS WAY.  SO IT

                    STRIKES TO ME THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING TOLD TO THEM ORIGINALLY OR NONE

                    OF THEM HAVE THE COURAGE TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT THE BILL.  BUT MADAM

                    SPEAKER, I AM OPPOSED TO THIS BILL AND I JOIN MY COLLEAGUES, AND I ALSO

                    ASK ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CHAMBER TO THINK TWICE ABOUT THIS AND VOTE

                    NO.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    MCDONOUGH.

                                         54



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MR. SMITH.

                                 MR. SMITH:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I RISE

                    TODAY -- OH, ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. SMITH:  THANK YOU.  I RISE TODAY TO EXPRESS MY

                    DEEP CONCERNS ABOUT THIS PROPOSED RULES CHANGE, THIS RESOLUTION.  AS A

                    MEMBER OF THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, I'M VERY CONCERNED THAT THIS WOULD

                    LIMIT JUST BY DESIGN THE ABILITY FOR ALL 150 MEMBERS TO SPEAK ON ISSUES

                    THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE PEOPLE THAT THEY WERE ELECTED TO REPRESENT,

                    OVER 20 MILLION NEW YORKERS AS OF THE LAST CENSUS.  AND I FIND IT

                    IRONIC AND INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S ALMOST AN INVERSE RELATIONSHIP

                    BECAUSE THE ISSUES THAT ARE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT, THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL

                    ARE ISSUES WHERE MEMBERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE WOULD LIKE TO

                    EXPRESS EITHER SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION, CONCERNS, QUESTIONS, AND I THINK

                    THAT THAT'S THE TYPE OF RELATIONSHIP THAT WE'VE ALWAYS HAD IN THIS

                    CHAMBER, A VERY CORDIAL DISCUSSION.  IT'S SOMETHING I ADMIRE WHEN I

                    BRING BACK HOME TO MY DISTRICT IS THAT WHEN WE DEBATE ON ISSUES THAT

                    ARE IMPORTANT TO NEW YORKERS IN THIS CHAMBER, WE DO SO ON THE ISSUE.

                    WE NEVER MAKE IT PERSONAL AND WE, YOU KNOW, WE MAKE EFFORTS TO STAY

                    ON TOPIC AND WITH RESPECT TO THAT.  I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY EFFORT TO

                    FILIBUSTER WITH A COORDINATED EFFORT WHERE HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS

                    WERE SPENT JUST TRYING TO WIND DOWN TIME.  YOU KNOW, UNDER THE MATH,

                    IT COULD BE NUMEROUS IF EVERY MEMBER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE

                    DECIDED TO SPEAK ON SOMETHING, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY EVIDENCE

                                         55



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    OF THAT AT LEAST IN THE LAST TEN YEARS WHERE I'VE EITHER BEEN A MEMBER OR

                    INVOLVED WITH THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY.

                                 SO I THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS A REALLY MOOT

                    POINT ON THAT END.  SO THE QUESTION IS IF THIS RULES CHANGE IS NEEDED,

                    THEN THAT'S SIMPLY TO SILENCE DEBATE ON CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS.  SO I THINK

                    AS A MEMBER AND ALL OF US AS MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, WE REALLY

                    HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT.

                                 THE FINAL COMMENTS I'LL SAY, AND MY WIFE -- TWO

                    THINGS MY WIFE SAYS I'M VERY GOOD AT, NUMBER ONE IS SPEAKING ABOUT

                    THINGS AND NUMBER TWO IS -- SHE ALWAYS TELLS ME I HAVE A VERY HIGH

                    TOLERANCE FOR BORING THINGS SO IN THAT REGARD, JOKING ASIDE, I THINK IT'S

                    OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO LISTEN TO EVERY MEMBER.  PART OF OUR JOB IS NOT JUST

                    TO SPEAK OUT AND TO GIVE A VOICE TO OUR PEOPLE, IT'S ALSO TO LISTEN TO ONE

                    ANOTHER AND TO FORM AN ADVISED OPINION.  SO I TAKE GREAT PRIDE AND

                    PLEASURE IN LISTENING TO WHAT MY COLLEAGUES HAVE TO SAY ON ANY NUMBER

                    OF TOPICS, WHETHER IT BE SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE, THE MARIHUANA

                    DEBATE, THE SAFE ACT MANY AREAS AGO, LISTENING BECAUSE EVEN -- AND

                    ESPECIALLY IF IT'S AN OPINION THAT I DISAGREE WITH, I REALLY WANT TO HEAR

                    WHERE THE PERSON'S COMING FROM.

                                 AND I GUESS I WILL CONCLUDE MY COMMENTS BY SAYING

                    OVER THE LAST 200-PLUS YEARS AS A NATION, WE CONTINUE TO REPRESENT AND

                    TO BE THAT MORE PERFECT UNION AND AT A TIME WHERE THERE ARE MANY

                    MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE

                    STRIVE, ALL OF US IN OUR OWN WAY TO GIVE A VOICE MANY TIMES TO THOSE

                    WHO DO NOT HAVE A VOICE.  AND BY DOING SO, THAT HAS ADVANCED THIS

                                         56



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    AMERICAN EXPERIMENT AND MADE OUR COUNTRY A MUCH BETTER PLACE.  FOR

                    THAT REASON, I THINK WE NEED MORE DEBATE AND NOT LESS SO I WILL BE

                    VOTING NO ON THIS RESOLUTION AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO

                    DO THE SAME.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SMITH.

                                 MR. MONTESANO.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    MAY I SPEAK ON THE RESOLUTION?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU.  YOU KNOW, I'M

                    NOT GOING TO REPEAT WHAT MANY OF THE MEMBERS HAVE SAID SO FAR

                    TONIGHT, I'LL JUST ECHO THEIR COMMENTS.  THIS IS MY 12TH YEAR OF BEING

                    HERE AND I KNOW WE'VE HAD SOME LATE NIGHTS, ESPECIALLY DURING THE

                    BUDGET SEASON, OF DEBATING BILLS.  I REMEMBER TIMES WE WENT 22, 23

                    HOURS STRAIGHT AND WERE LEAVING HERE AT 6:30, 7:00 IN THE MORNING

                    WHEN THE DAY STAFF WAS WALKING IN THE BUILDING.  SO -- AND I UNDERSTAND

                    THAT FRUSTRATION, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WITH THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE,

                    MAYBE WITH THE LEADERSHIP, THAT THIS GOES ON.  LAST YEAR WE HAD A VERY

                    CONTENTIOUS BUDGET DEBATE AND IT WENT BACK AND FORTH, IT WAS ON BOTH

                    SIDES OF THE AISLE BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT'S IN THOSE BILLS

                    UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE.  I REMEMBER SITTING HERE 2:00 IN THE MORNING AND

                    ANOTHER BUDGET BILL COMES OUT THIS BIG, AND THAT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT OUR

                    ANALYSTS AND OUR WAYS AND MEANS PEOPLE ARE GETTING TO SEE THAT PIECE

                                         57



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    OF LEGISLATION, AND EVERYBODY HAS TO TAKE A PIECE OF IT AND SORT THROUGH

                    IT SO WE CAN DEVELOP OUR QUESTIONS.

                                 NOW, EVEN IN COMMITTEE, WE'VE HAD MANY LIVELY

                    DEBATES IN COMMITTEE THAT HAVE CHANGED THE MINDS OF THE PEOPLE ON

                    THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, ON THE MAJORITY SIDE OF THE AISLE.  I DEBATED

                    A POWER OF ATTORNEY BILL ONCE IN CODES FOR 45 MINUTES STRAIGHT AND THE

                    MEMBERS OF THE MAJORITY SIDE STARTED LOOKING AT EACH OTHER, BECAUSE

                    THEY DIDN'T REALIZE WHAT I WAS POINTING OUT WAS ACTUALLY IN THAT BILL.

                    AND THE CHAIRMAN WHO IS NOW RETIRED LOOKED OVER HIS SHOULDER TO HIS

                    LEGAL COUNSEL TO ASK WHAT I SAID IF IT WAS ACCURATE OR NOT AND HE WAS

                    TOLD YES, HE IMMEDIATELY PULLED THE BILL OFF THE CALENDAR, AND THAT'S

                    HAPPENED ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION BECAUSE WE GET INFORMED

                    THROUGH DEBATE OF WHERE THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH A BILL, WHERE

                    THERE'S AN IRREGULARITY.

                                 YOU KNOW, I'LL SAY FROM MY SIDE OF THE AISLE, THANKS

                    TO OUR STAFF WE'RE VERY WELL-BRIEFED AND FILLED IN ABOUT EVERY BILL THAT

                    HITS THIS FLOOR.  MAYBE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE YOU'RE NOT AND IT

                    MAY BE INTENTIONAL OR NOT INTENTIONAL THAT YOU'RE NOT FULLY BRIEFED, BUT

                    YOU NEED TO HEAR, AS WE GO BACK AND FORTH, WHAT'S IN THESE BILLS

                    BECAUSE SOMETIMES THEY'RE ALL NOT WHAT PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE.  THE

                    WAY THEY'RE PRESENTED TO YOU, YOU GET ONE OR TWO LINES ON THE CALENDAR

                    OR THE WAY THAT YOU GET THEM IN A CONFERENCE, THAT INFORMATION IS NOT

                    ALWAYS THE SAME AS WHAT YOU THINK IT IS UNLESS YOU FLUSH OUT THE BILLS.

                    AND SOME OF THESE BILLS NEED TO BE FLUSHED OUT ON BOTH SIDES.  THERE

                    WERE TIMES I SAT HERE, MY COLLEAGUE SAID BEFORE FROM UPSTATE, OUR

                                         58



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    VOTES CHANGE WHILE WE'RE SITTING HERE.  I COME IN WITH THE IDEA I'LL BE

                    VOTING NO ON A BILL AND THEN WHEN I LISTEN TO BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE

                    DEBATE IT, A PIECE OF INFORMATION COMES OUT, I CHECK IT, MY VOTE IS

                    CHANGED; MANY A TIMES I GO UP AND MANY TIMES I GO IN THE NEGATIVE.

                    BUT FOR THIS HOUSE TO TAKE THIS POSITION AND SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO

                    ALLOW THIS ANYMORE, THIS FURTHER (INAUDIBLE), I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND

                    WHERE YOU'RE GOING AND HOW THE MAJORITY WILL VOTE FOR THIS AND THEN GO

                    HOME TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS.  IT'S THE MAJORITY SIDE AS WELL AS OUR SIDE,

                    IT'S OUR JOBS AROUND THIS WHOLE STATE TO FLUSH OUT THE INFORMATION ON

                    THESE BILLS.  WE ALL KNOW ON OUR SIDE THAT YOU HAVE THE VOTES TO PASS

                    ANYTHING YOU WANT.  YOU DON'T REALLY NEED US, WE COULD BE OUT OF HERE

                    FOR A MONTH STRAIGHT AND YOU COULD PASS ANY PIECE OF LEGISLATION YOU

                    WANT, BOTH IN THE COMMITTEE AND IN THIS HOUSE WITH A RARE EXCEPTION,

                    ALL RIGHT.  IT'S JUST DESIGNED THAT WAY.  YOU NEVER LET IT HAPPEN, YOU

                    NEVER LET A BILL COME TO THE FLOOR WITHOUT 76-PLUS VOTES.  YOU DON'T

                    WANT TO COUNT ON US FOR ANY -- WE KNOW THAT.  SO OUR JOB IS TO BRING TO

                    LIGHT WHERE THE DEFICIENCIES ARE IN THESE BILLS, WHERE THE BAD STUFF IS IN

                    THESE BILLS, AND THEN SOMETIMES WE PERSUADE YOU AND I'VE SEEN -- IT'S A

                    RARITY, TRUST ME, A RARITY, THAT A BILL GETS PULLED AT THE LAST MINUTE

                    BECAUSE IT CAN'T GET THE VOTES.

                                 THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER OF THIS HOUSE WHO I UNDERSTAND

                    IS NO LONGER WITH US WHO PASSED EARLIER TODAY, WHEN HE TOOK HIS SEAT

                    AFTER HE RESIGNED BEING THE SPEAKER, RIGHT OVER THERE IN THAT CORNER, AND

                    DEBATED ONE OF HIS OWN PARTY MEMBERS ON A BILL, THAT BILL DIED ON THE

                    FLOOR BECAUSE HE PUT OUT INFORMATION ABOUT THAT BILL THE REST OF THE

                                         59



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    MEMBERS ON THAT SIDE OF THE AISLE WERE NOT AWARE OF.  SO THAT'S THE

                    WHOLE IDEA OF THE DEBATE.  SO I REALIZE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN SIT HERE FOR

                    HOURS AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS TALKED ABOUT FILIBUSTER, LOOK, I'D BE THE

                    FIRST TO TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, FROM SITTING HERE ALL THESE YEARS.  THERE'S

                    TIMES I WANT TO BANG MY HEAD ON THE TABLE WHEN THESE THINGS GO ON

                    AND ON AND ON.  TRUST ME, I GET IT.  I'M NO FAN OF IT, BUT IT'S THE

                    NECESSARY JOB THAT WE DO.  I USED TO HAVE A MEMBER SITTING BEHIND ME

                    WHO WAS A DENTIST.  I USED TO -- IT WAS LIKE GETTING A ROOT CANAL FROM

                    HIM WITHOUT ANESTHESIA WITH SOME OF THESE BILLS THAT WOULD GO ON.

                                 SO A LOT OF US KNOW THAT THAT HAVE BEEN HERE LONG

                    ENOUGH OF HOW THESE THINGS CAN CARRY ON AND I UNDERSTAND THE

                    FRUSTRATION, BUT IT'S OUR JOB -- IT'S OUR JOB TO FLUSH OUT THE INFORMATION

                    AND IF, YOU KNOW, OTHER MEMBERS DECIDE, YOU KNOW, (INAUDIBLE) NOT

                    CARING WHAT THE PIECE OF LEGISLATION SAYS, THAT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE AND

                    THEY'LL HAVE TO ANSWER UP FOR IT LATER ON TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS.  BUT ON

                    THE MINORITY SIDE, IT'S OUR JOB TO BRING THIS STUFF TO LIGHT.  AND THERE IS A

                    LOT OF STUFF THAT COMES OUT ON THIS FLOOR THAT'S SUPERB, THEY'RE EXCELLENT

                    IDEAS, AND WE JUMP RIGHT BEHIND IT.  AND I HEARD A COLLEAGUE BEFORE, HE

                    SAID HE VOTES 83 PERCENT OF THE TIME WITH THE SPEAKER, SO DO MANY OF

                    US BECAUSE THEY'RE GOOD BILLS, THEY'RE LEGITIMATE BILLS, WE'RE PROUD TO

                    STAND BEHIND THEM, WE'RE PROUD TO SUPPORT THEM.

                                 BUT THERE ARE TIMES THAT IDEAS COME OUT THAT JUST DON'T

                    MAKE IT AND THAT WE HAVE TO -- WE HAVE TO SPEAK ABOUT.  AND AS, YOU

                    KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S DISTASTEFUL, SOMETIMES WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR

                    ABOUT IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S THAT TYPE OF JOB THAT HAS TO BE DONE.

                                         60



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 SO I WOULD ASK YOU ALL TODAY THAT NO MATTER WHAT YOU

                    WOULD EXPLAIN TO ABOUT WHY THIS IS A GOOD RESOLUTION AND WHY YOU

                    SHOULD BE VOTING FOR IT AND WHY MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE CRITICIZING IT,

                    THINK OF YOURSELF AS AN INDIVIDUAL, OF WHY YOU'RE HERE, WHO YOU'RE

                    ANSWERING TO.  EVERYBODY IN THIS HOUSE IS EDUCATED.  EVERYBODY HAS

                    DEGREES, MANY HAVE PROFESSIONAL DEGREES AND EDUCATION IN LAW AND IN

                    MANY OTHER DIFFERENT FIELDS.  WE'VE HAD MANY IN THE MEDICAL

                    PROFESSION WHO SIT IN THIS ROOM, SO IT'S NOT THAT WE'RE NOT AN EDUCATED

                    LEGISLATURE --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MONTESANO,

                    WOULD YOU WRAP UP, YOU'VE GONE A LITTLE PAST YOUR TIME.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  I'M SORRY, I APOLOGIZE, I DIDN'T

                    HEAR THE BUZZER.

                                 SO I WOULD JUST ASK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ALL THINK HARD

                    ABOUT THIS AND I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I ASK ALL MY COLLEAGUES

                    TO DO THE SAME.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE COURTESY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. SCHMITT.

                                 YOU'RE NOW AT A MINUS FROM MR. MONTESANO'S TIME --

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE MAJORITY LEADER YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES,

                    WILL YOU YIELD?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  OF COURSE I WILL, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                         61



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  THANK YOU, MADAM MAJORITY

                    LEADER.  JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, IT WOULD BE FOUR HOURS OF TRADITIONAL

                    DEBATE, CORRECT, THAT WOULD BE THE OVERALL TIME LIMIT, PLUS AN ADDITIONAL

                    ONE HOUR OF EXPLANATION?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES, THAT WOULD BE RIGHT,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  NOW, THAT ADDITIONAL HOUR WOULD

                    ONLY BE USED FOR AN EXPLANATION IF -- THERE'S NO CROSSOVER BETWEEN USES,

                    IS THAT -- WOULD THAT BE CORRECT?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YES.  TRADITIONALLY, IT'S

                    STARTED BY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  ON THE FIRST PERSON ONCE THAT STARTS,

                    OKAY.  IS -- HAS THIS CHAMBER EVER PREVIOUSLY HAD AN OVERALL TIME LIMIT

                    RESTRICTION FOR INDIVIDUAL BILL DEBATE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF,

                    SIR.  I DEBATED A BILL LAST YEAR THAT TOOK SIX-AND-A-HALF HOURS.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  I DO REMEMBER THAT AND A FEW

                    OTHERS THAT WENT FOR -- FOR SOME TIME.  WHAT WAS THE METHODOLOGY OR

                    THE SOURCE -- HOW DID WE COME UP WITH A FOUR-HOUR/ONE-HOUR, WHAT

                    WAS THE BASIS FOR THAT INSTEAD OF THREE AND TWO, OR SEVEN AND ONE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  I THINK THE BASIS

                    GENERALLY IS THAT THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF TIME TO -- FOR

                    MEMBERS TO RAISE QUESTIONS AND HAVE THEM ANSWERED.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  BASED ON AN AVERAGE OF DEBATE?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  BASED ON THE NUMBER OF

                                         62



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    MEMBERS WHO SERVE IN OUR BODY AND BASED ON THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS

                    WHO SERVE IN THE SENATE WHO GET THE SAME THINGS DONE WITH LESS TIME.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  DOES THE SENATE CURRENTLY HAVE AN

                    OVERALL TIME LIMIT ON DEBATE PER BILL?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YEAH, THEY HAVE TWO

                    HOURS FOR AN ENTIRE DEBATE AND THIS HAS BEEN CONSISTENT, NOTHING HAS

                    CHANGED FOR THEM, AND THEY HAVE TWO MINUTES TO EXPLAIN THEIR VOTE.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  NOW, MY CALCULATION IS THAT THE

                    MINIMUM AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO MIGHT POSSIBLY BE ABLE TO DEBATE

                    WOULD BE 16 IF THE FIRST 16 PEOPLE CAME IN AND USED THE FULL 15

                    MINUTES.  IS THE PROCESS FOR COUNTING THIS TIME GOING TO BE THROUGH THE

                    SPEAKER, OR HOW WILL THAT BE TRACKED, HOW MUCH TIME HAS BEEN

                    (INAUDIBLE)?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  SO YOUR QUESTION IS FOR

                    YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SPOKE -- SPOKEN ALREADY ON A DEBATE FOR 15

                    MINUTES, IF YOU NEEDED TO HAVE MORE TIME TO DO THAT, THAT WOULD BE A

                    CONVERSATION FOR YOU AND MR. BARCLAY OR MR. --

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  JUST TO CLARIFY.  THERE'S FOUR HOURS

                    OVERALL THAT ANYONE CAN DEBATE ON EITHER SIDE.  WHO IS IT RESPONSIBLE

                    FOR MAINTAINING WHAT -- WHEN THAT STARTS OR WHEN THAT ENDS OR WHEN IT'S

                    BEEN REACHED?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  WELL, I THINK ONCE WE ALL

                    UNDERSTAND THE RULES, WE WILL BE CONSIDERATE OF EACH OTHER, AND 85 OF

                    US WOULD NOT WANT TO USE 15 MINUTES.  AS A MATTER OF FACT, I HAVE

                    MENTIONED THIS EARLIER ON THE FLOOR, WE HAVE FIVE MINUTES TODAY TO

                                         63



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    DEBATE THIS RESOLUTION AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR COLLEAGUES HAVE NOT

                    USED THE ENTIRE FIVE MINUTES.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  THE -- MY OTHER QUESTION IS SAY

                    WE'RE NEARING THE END OF THE FOUR HOURS AND YOU, ME, ANY MEMBER GETS

                    UP FOR THEIR CHANCE, THEY GET THE CHANCE TO SPEAK AND THERE'S ONLY THREE

                    MINUTES LEFT IN THAT OVERALL FOUR-HOUR PERIOD.  HOW IS THAT GOING TO BE

                    ADJUDICATED?  WOULD THEY STILL BE ABLE TO FINISH OUT THEIR QUESTIONING

                    TIME OR WOULD THEY LOSE THEIR OVERALL 15 MINUTES AND JUST BE KEPT TO

                    WHENEVER THE TIME LIMIT IS OR WILL SOMEONE NOT BE BROUGHT UP IF THEY

                    USE THEIR FULL 15?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YOU PROBABLY JUST

                    NOTICED IT, THE GENTLEMANLY ATTITUDE OF OUR SPEAKER WHEN THE LAST

                    COLLEAGUE WAS OVER HIS FIVE MINUTES, HE DID NOT START SOUNDING THE

                    GAVEL TO HAVE HIM SIT DOWN, HE ALLOWED HIM TO COMPLETE AND REMINDED

                    HIM THAT HE WAS AT THE TIME, THE GENTLEMAN SAID OKAY AND HE FINISHED

                    UP.  AND SO I AGREE IT'S THAT KIND OF CORDIAL CONVERSATION THAT WE'LL HAVE

                    AMONGST EACH OTHER TO FOLLOW THE RULES.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  THANK YOU, MADAM LEADER, FOR

                    ANSWERING SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  YOU'RE VERY WELCOME,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. SCHMITT:  HISTORICALLY, OUR COUNTRY HAS

                                         64



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    BENEFITTED AND EMBRACED VIGOROUS AND MANY TIMES EXHAUSTIVE DEBATE

                    FROM OUR VERY FOUNDING.  I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD KEEP

                    IN MIND AS WE CONSIDER ANY RESOLUTION TO LIMIT THE POTENTIAL FOR

                    MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY TO BE ABLE TO FULLY EMBRACE THEIR

                    CONSTITUTIONAL ROLE AS A MEMBER OF THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.

                    FOR THAT REASON, I WILL BE OPPOSING THIS RESOLUTION WHEN IT IS BROUGHT TO

                    A VOTE, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME THIS AFTERNOON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. PALMESANO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  OH, I'M SORRY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THERE WE GO, I'M

                    SORRY.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR YOU.

                                 YOU KNOW, MR. SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, I'M

                    PROUD TO SERVE IN THIS BODY, BUT THIS IS A SAD DAY FOR THIS INSTITUTION.

                    YOU KNOW, LAST YEAR WE SAID THIS WAS GOING TO BE TEMPORARY BECAUSE

                    OF COVID, BECAUSE OF SAFETY REASONS.  BUT YOU CLEARLY WERE NOT TELLING

                    THE TRUTH, PERIOD.  THIS IS A STAIN ON THIS INSTITUTION.  THIS IS A BLACK EYE

                    TODAY.  SIMPLY PUT, YOU DO NOT WANT ACCOUNTABILITY.  YOU DO NOT WANT

                    TRANSPARENCY.  YOU DO NOT WANT TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.  WITH THIS ACTION,

                    YOU ARE SILENCING THE VOICE -- THE VOICE OF MEMBERS REPRESENTING

                    MILLIONS OF NEW YORKERS ACROSS THIS STATE.  YOU'RE LIMITING DEBATE.

                    YOU'RE LIMITING TIME FOR MEMBERS TO SPEAK, YOU'RE LIMITING TIME

                    OVERALL; THAT'S WRONG.  YOU'RE CONTROLLING THE DEBATE BY CONTROLLING THE

                    TIME FOR MEMBERS, LIMITING WHO CAN SPEAK, BASICALLY RESTRICTING IT TO

                                         65



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    ABOUT 16 PEOPLE.  AND HOW IS THAT FAIR WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

                    CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES?

                                 WHEN I THINK ABOUT OUR BUDGET PROCESS, WE HAVE A

                    $216 BILLION BUDGET WE'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH AND IT IMPACTS

                    EVERY NEW YORKER FROM OUR SMALL BUSINESSES, OUR FARMERS, OUR

                    MANUFACTURERS, OUR SENIORS, OUR VETERANS, OUR FAMILIES, OUR CHILDREN,

                    OUR SCHOOLS AND YOU'RE DECIDING 15 MINUTES IS ENOUGH AND FOUR HOURS

                    IS ENOUGH TO DEBATE IN LENGTH ON SOME OF THESE THINGS?  WHO ARE YOU

                    TO DECIDE?  WHY ARE YOU AFRAID OF ACCOUNTABILITY?  YOU KNOW, I KNOW

                    THE MAJORITY LEADER MENTIONED ABOUT GRANDSTANDING WITH DEBATE.  LET

                    ME BE CLEAR, THAT'S NONSENSE.  DURING DEBATE, WE ASK THOUGHTFUL,

                    DELIBERATE QUESTIONS TO GET ANSWERS, TO HAVE TRANSPARENCY FOR THE

                    PEOPLE WE REPRESENT, AND HOW THESE POLICIES IMPACT THEM, TO POINT OUT

                    PROBLEMS IN THE LEGISLATION TO HOPEFULLY MAKE -- OFFER CORRECTIONS AND

                    THINGS TO FIX IT.  LAST WEEK WE VOTED ON VOTING RIGHTS ISSUES AND YOU

                    TALKED INCESSANTLY ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND DEMOCRACY AND HOW

                    IMPORTANT IT WAS, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE ONLY INTERESTED IN

                    TRANSPARENCY AND DEMOCRACY WHEN IT FITS YOUR IDEOLOGICAL INTERESTS,

                    YOUR NARRATIVE, AND YOUR TALKING POINTS.  SHAME ON YOU.

                                 YOU CONTROL THE PROCESS, YOU CONTROL THE VOTES, WE ALL

                    KNOW THAT.  SO WHY ARE YOU NOW AFRAID OF DEBATE?  WHY ARE YOU NOW

                    AFRAID OF ACCOUNTABILITY?  TO STAND UP AND ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT

                    DEFEND BAD POLICY, OR GOOD POLICY IF IT'S FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.  YOU

                    KNOW, I DON'T USE 15 MINUTES VERY OFTEN.  I DID IT FOR THE CLCPA TO

                    TALK ABOUT THE -- THE IMPACTS ON AFFORDABILITY, RELIABILITY, OUR ENERGY

                                         66



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    POLICY, I DID IT ON THE FARM LABOR BILL TO TALK ABOUT THE SURVIVAL OF OUR

                    FAMILY FARMS WHICH 98 PERCENT OF OUR FARMS ARE FAMILY-OWNED FARMS.

                                 YOU KNOW, WE TOOK A MOMENT OF SILENCE EARLIER TODAY

                    FOR THAT -- TWO NYPD OFFICERS WHO WERE SHOT, ONE WAS KILLED, ONE

                    HANGING ON FOR LIFE, A DISCERNING PATTERN OF VIOLENCE WE'RE SEEING

                    AROUND THE STATE AND THIS IS YOUR PRIORITY, TO LIMIT DEBATE ON IMPORTANT

                    POLICIES LIKE CRIMINAL JUSTICE POLICIES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE SAFETY OF

                    OUR CITIZENS?  YOU DON'T -- IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU DON'T WANT TO HOLD

                    ANYONE ACCOUNTABLE.  YOUR POLICIES CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO HOLD

                    CRIMINAL -- CRIMINALS -- THE VIOLENT CRIMINALS ACCOUNTABLE AND NOW YOU

                    DON'T WANT TO HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR YOURSELF.  (INAUDIBLE) SERIOUS

                    CRIMES.  SILENCE.  JUST LIKE THERE'S SILENCE HERE TODAY.  YOU SIMPLY

                    DON'T WANT TO ANSWER TOUGH, CHALLENGING QUESTIONS ON BAD POLICY OR

                    DEFEND THE POLICIES THAT YOU SUPPORT AND PUT OUT PRESS RELEASES ON

                    AFTER.

                                 A FREE AND OPEN DEBATE IS CRITICAL TO PROVIDE

                    TRANSPARENCY TO THE PUBLIC, TO -- CRITICAL TO PROVIDING ANSWERS, CRITICAL

                    TO OUR DEMOCRACY AND WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS ABOUT, "WE THE

                    PEOPLE," AND YOU HAVE DECIDED HERE TODAY THAT THE PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE

                    A RIGHT TO KNOW, YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO KNOW.  WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE

                    TODAY IS WRONG AND YOU KNOW IT.

                                 AND I SAID BEFORE, ENACTING THIS RESOLUTION IS A STAIN

                    AND A BLACK EYE ON THIS INSTITUTION, PERIOD.  AND AGAIN, I HAVE BEEN SO

                    PROUD TO SERVE HERE, BUT THIS DAY OF JANUARY 24TH IS GOING TO GO DOWN

                    AS A SAD DAY FOR THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY.  YOU HAVE MADE A CLEAR

                                         67



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    STATEMENT WITH YOUR ACTION HERE TODAY TO DAMAGE THIS INSTITUTION

                    FOREVER AND TO TELL THE PUBLIC THAT THEIR VOICE AND THAT THE VOICE OF THEIR

                    REPRESENTATIVES DOES NOT MATTER, NO MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE IS, NO MATTER

                    HOW FAR IMPACTING IT IS OR CONTROVERSIAL IT IS.  YOU'RE DEFINITELY

                    DISENFRANCHISING NEW YORKER'S VOICES BY THIS ACTION TODAY.  YOU ARE

                    HURTING OUR DEMOCRACY SAYING TRANSPARENCY DOESN'T MATTER AND IT ISN'T

                    IMPORTANT.  SHAME ON YOU.  THIS IS WRONG.  I VOTE NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR -- ON

                    THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THERE

                    SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO MISUNDERSTANDING AT THIS POINT THAT THIS BILL

                    CUTS THE DEBATE TIME FOR ALL THE MEMBERS IN THIS CHAMBER IN HALF, WITH

                    TWO EXCEPTIONS, AND LIMITS THE TOTAL AMOUNT TO JUST 16 LEGISLATORS TO USE

                    THEIR FULL ALLOTTED TIME.  WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 134 LEGISLATORS?  WHAT

                    ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS TO STAND UP AND ASK QUESTIONS OR EXPRESS THEIR

                    OPINIONS.  AND IN REALITY, IT'S MORE THAN 134 BECAUSE THE TOTAL TIME IS

                    NOT MEASURED BY 15 MINUTE INCREMENTS, IT'S MEASURED BY THE CLOCK AND

                    SO IF THERE'S A FEW MINUTES BETWEEN EACH PERSON BEING CALLED, MORE

                    THAN 135 OF US, THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR MEMBERS WILL HAVE NO

                    OPPORTUNITY ON THE FLOOR OF THE ASSEMBLY TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THEIR

                    CONSTITUENTS.  THAT IS NOT OPEN, TRANSPARENT, WELCOMING GOVERNMENT.

                                 WHAT ARE WE AFRAID OF?  ARE WE AFRAID THAT WE MIGHT

                                         68



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    HAVE TO SIT IN THIS CHAMBER AND LISTEN TO OTHER COLLEAGUES, MORE THAN

                    16 OF THEM AT A TIME, ARE WE AFRAID OF THAT?  ARE WE WORRIED THAT THERE

                    MIGHT BE POINTS THAT ARE BROUGHT UP THAT MIGHT BE EMBARRASSING?  WHAT

                    ARE WE TRYING TO HIDE?  WHY ARE WE SO FOCUSED ON LIMITING PUBLIC

                    DEBATE?  NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT WE DEAL WITH CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES ALL

                    THE TIME AND THAT SOME OF US MIGHT THINK THAT 15 MINUTES IS A LOT OF

                    TIME.  AND FOR A SIMPLE BILL, IT WOULD BE, BUT WHAT ABOUT OUR BUDGET

                    BILLS?  EVERYONE ON THE FLOOR OF THIS LEGISLATURE KNOWS THAT THE ARTICLE

                    VII BUDGET BILLS NORMALLY CONTAIN ALMOST THE ENTIRE LEGISLATIVE AGENDA

                    OF THE GOVERNOR, WHICH IS WHY THE PUBLIC PROTECTION AND GENERAL

                    GOVERNMENT BUDGET HAS 28 SEPARATE PARTS.  OR THE EDUCATION, LABOR

                    AND FAMILY ASSISTANCE HAS 32 SEPARATE PARTS.  OR WHAT ABOUT THE STATE

                    HEALTH AND MENTAL HEALTH THAT HAS 43 PARTS?  SO THINK ABOUT THAT, YOU

                    HAVE 15 MINUTES TO DEBATE A BILL THAT HAS 43 SEPARATE STATUTORY

                    PROVISIONS, THAT GIVES YOU 20 SECONDS FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE SECTIONS.

                                 AND WHAT ARE WE AFRAID OF?  SURELY ALL OF US HAVE

                    TIME TO LISTEN TO THE -- AND RESPECT THE COMMENTS OF OUR COLLEAGUES,

                    SURELY.  JUST THREE YEARS AGO WE WERE ALL BLESSED WITH A 40 PERCENT

                    INCREASE IN SALARY, AND FOR $110,000 WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO TALK ABOUT

                    ANY BILL MORE THAN FOUR HOURS?  REALLY?  WHAT IS IT THAT PREVENTS US

                    FROM ALLOWING MORE THAN 16 MEMBERS TO SPEAK FOR 15 MINUTES?  WHY

                    DO WE WANT TO GAG OR SILENCE THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEMBERS WHO TRAVEL

                    HERE FROM EVERY CORNER OF THE STATE AND BRING THE CONCERNS AND

                    INTERESTS AND OBJECTIVES OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS?  IN THE PAST, WE WOULD

                    HAVE A LEGISLATIVE CALENDAR, WE'D CALL IT OPEN MEETINGS LAW, OR OPEN

                                         69



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    SUNSHINE WEEK OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES -- SUNSHINE WEEK.

                    THIS IS THE OPPOSITE, ISN'T IT?  IT'S NOT ABOUT BRINGING SUNSHINE IN, IT'S

                    ABOUT CLOSING DEBATE.

                                 NOW, WHAT I FIND FRUSTRATING, AND I'M SURE IT'S

                    FRUSTRATION SHARED BY ALL MY COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, IS

                    THAT WHILE EVERY BUSINESS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS ALLOWED TO BE

                    OPEN, THE PUBLIC CANNOT GO INTO THE LEGISLATIVE OFFICE BUILDING AND

                    MEET WITH US.  THERE'S ARMED GUARDS CHECKING ID TO MAKE SURE THAT NO

                    MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC CAN MEET WITH US IN THE LEGISLATIVE OFFICE.  AND

                    THERE'S ARMED GUARDS MAKING SURE THAT NO MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC CAN

                    COME INTO THESE CHAMBERS AND MEET WITH US.  AND NOW WE'RE TAKING

                    THE NEXT STEP BY SAYING ONLY A FEW MEMBERS CAN SPEAK ON ANY BILL.

                    THAT'S THE WRONG DIRECTION, I THINK.  AND SO I URGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO

                    VOTE AGAINST THIS RESOLUTION.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  I REALIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE AN IMPORTANT TOPIC HERE

                    BEFORE US.  I DO TAKE EXCEPTION TO MY COLLEAGUES WHO WANT TO ASSUME

                    THAT THIS IS SOMEHOW TAKING AWAY THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO THEIR

                    PUBLIC, TO SPEAK TO THEIR CONSTITUENCIES; I THINK JUST THE OPPOSITE.  I

                    THINK WHAT THIS ALLOWS US TO DO, THERE ARE A LOT OF OUR COLLEAGUES WHO

                    HAVE VERY IMPORTANT LEGISLATION THAT IMPACTS THEM SPECIFICALLY AND

                    SOMETIMES JUST THEIR DISTRICT THAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE MOVED AND BECAUSE

                    WE HAVE SO MANY PIECES OF LEGISLATION BEFORE US AND SO MANY

                                         70



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    DISCUSSIONS, SOMETIMES WE'RE NOT ABLE TO GET TO EVERYTHING.  I HAVE

                    BEEN HERE WHEN WE WERE HERE UNTIL 5 AND 6:00 IN THE MORNING.  I'M ONE

                    OF THE PEOPLE WHO WAS STILL DEBATING A BILL FOR SIX-AND-A-HALF ALMOST

                    SEVEN HOURS.  SO IT'S NOT ABOUT NOT GETTING PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO

                    COMMUNICATE.  IT'S ABOUT BEING MORE, IF POSSIBLE, EXPEDIENT.

                                 I MENTIONED THIS THREE TIMES ALREADY TODAY, I'M GOING

                    TO SAY IT AGAIN BECAUSE I THINK IT'S VERY INFORMATIVE.  EVERYONE HAD FIVE

                    MINUTES TODAY ON THIS DEBATE AND HONESTLY, ONLY THREE PEOPLE USED THE

                    ENTIRE FIVE MINUTES.  SO TO SUGGEST THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO

                    DEBATE A BILL WHEN WE'RE ALL ADULTS, WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE

                    WHEN WE COME HERE, WE ALL KNOW THE QUESTIONS THAT WE WANT TO HAVE

                    ASKED AND ANSWERED, I THINK WE CAN GET THAT DONE IN FIVE MINUTES.

                    AND SO FOR THE CONSTITUENCY THAT MAY BE STILL LISTENING TO THIS DEBATE,

                    WHICH SOMETIMES WHEN GRANDSTANDING, ALL OF OUR DECORUM, BECAUSE WE

                    DON'T CALL PEOPLE NAMES ON THIS FLOOR, BUT I'VE HEARD IT THREE TIMES

                    TODAY, FOR THOSE WHO ARE STILL LISTENING, TO TAKE THIS FOR SURE.  THIS IS NOT

                    ABOUT LIMITING PUBLIC ANYTHING.  THIS IS ABOUT GOING TO WORK FOR THE

                    PEOPLE IN THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT JUST THE PEOPLE THAT I

                    PERSONALLY REPRESENT, BUT THE PEOPLE THAT MY COLLEAGUES REPRESENT AS

                    WELL.

                                 THIS WILL BRING VALUE TO OUR PROCESS.  THIS WILL NOT

                    DETRACT FROM IT.  AND I KNOW PEOPLE WANT TO MAKE YOU FEEL THAT WAY

                    BECAUSE CHANGE IS ALWAYS A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH, BUT THAT DOESN'T

                    MEAN IT'S NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO.  THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, AND

                    I'M ENCOURAGING ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES, EVEN THOSE WHO THINK THAT WE

                                         71



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    SOMEHOW DON'T WANT YOU SPEAKING, WE DO WANT YOU SPEAKING, WE NEED

                    YOUR VOICE, TO VOTE YES ON THIS RESOLUTION.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON RESOLUTION NO.

                    493.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS

                    AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION.  IF

                    THERE ARE ANY MEMBERS WHO SUPPORT IT, THEY ARE ENCOURAGED TO CALL THE

                    MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE WILL ENSURE THAT THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY

                    RECORDED.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  (INAUDIBLE/MIC NOT ON) --

                    OUR COLLEAGUES THAT THIS IS A MAJORITY VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS LEGISLATION;

                    HOWEVER, SHOULD MEMBERS DECIDE TO DO OTHERWISE THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE

                    TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THEIR

                    VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU SO VERY

                    MUCH.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                         72



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  PLEASE

                    RECORD MY COLLEAGUE, MR. BRABENEC, IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS

                    RESOLUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  DO YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER

                    HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WE HAVE ONE PIECE OF

                    HOUSEKEEPING AND NUMEROUS FINE RESOLUTIONS, WE WILL TAKE UP THE

                    HOUSEKEEPING FIRST.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MS. SIMON, PAGE 26, CALENDAR NO.

                    100, BILL NO. A2251, THE AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 WE HAVE NUMEROUS FINE RESOLUTIONS.  ON THE

                    RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE

                    RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 487-488 AND

                    493-503 WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, COULD YOU

                    PLEASE CALL MR. GOODELL FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  MR.

                                         73



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                             JANUARY 24, 2022

                    GOODELL FOR THE PURPOSES OF A ANNOUNCEMENT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WANTED

                    TO REMIND MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES THAT WE ARE HAVING A BUDGET

                    BRIEFING IN 15 MINUTES, STARTING IN 15 MINUTES.  THIS IS A ZOOM BUDGET

                    MEETING AND BRIEFING.  EVERY MEMBER IN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS CAN

                    ASK QUESTIONS WITHOUT LIMITATION, BUT WE DO ASK ALL OF THEM TO SHOW

                    RESPECT.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE AFTER SESSION UNFETTERED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND MY DEMOCRATIC COLLEAGUES THAT THERE

                    WILL BE AN IMMEDIATE CONFERENCE IN HEARING ROOM.  MEMBERS SHOULD

                    MAKE THEIR WAYS THERE.  AND TO MY COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE

                    AISLE, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU SHOULD FEEL FREE TO ASK ME.  I'LL

                    PROVIDE AN ANSWER IF YOU'VE GOT AN ANSWER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  DEMOCRATIC

                    CONFERENCE IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING SESSION, ALSO UNFETTERED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 THE ASSEMBLY STANDS ADJOURNED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 5:12 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD

                    ADJOURNED.)







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