TUESDAY, MARCH 29, 2022 1:51 P.M.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME

TO ORDER.

IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

SILENCE.

(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

OF ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

JOURNAL OF MONDAY, MARCH 28TH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THAT WE DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF MONDAY,

MARCH THE 28TH AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

ORDERED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR.

COLLEAGUES AND MEMBERS, AS WELL AS GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS

INCLUDING THE ONE MEMBER OF OUR BABY CAUCUS, I WANT TO WELCOME YOU

HERE TODAY IN OUR CHAMBERS. I DO HAVE A QUOTE I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE.

IT'S FROM A NURSE, MR. SPEAKER. HER NAME IS FLORENCE NIGHTINGALE.

SOME OF US MAY RECALL LEARNING ABOUT HER SOME YEARS AGO IN

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, PERHAPS. AND HER WORDS FOR US TODAY, TO BE IN

CHARGE IS CERTAINLY NOT ONLY TO CARRY OUT THE PROPER MEASURES YOURSELF,

BUT IT IS TO SEE THAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES, TOO. AGAIN, THESE WORDS ARE

FROM FLORENCE NIGHTINGALE.

COLLEAGUES, MEMBERS HAVE ON YOUR DESK A MAIN

CALENDAR AND A DEBATE LIST. WE ALSO HAVE A ONE-BILL A-CALENDAR. MR.

SPEAKER, I NOW MOVE THAT WE ADVANCE THAT A-CALENDAR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON MRS. PEOPLES-

STOKES' MOTION THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. AFTER HOUSEKEEPING WE ARE GOING TO TAKE UP RESOLUTIONS ON

PAGE 3, WHICH SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES MAY DESIRE TO SPEAK ON. WE

WILL THEN TAKE UP RULES REPORT NO. 68 BY SPEAKER HEASTIE FROM --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

FROM THE A-CALENDAR, AND AFTER THAT WE ARE GOING TO BEGIN WORKING OFF

OUR DEBATE LIST. A LOT OF OUR COLLEAGUES ARE VERY EXCITED ABOUT MOVING

FORWARD WITH THE DEBATE LIST. BUT WE'RE GOING TO START WITH CALENDAR

NO. 58 BY MS. PHEFFER AMATO. FOLLOWED BY CALENDAR NO. 82 BY MR.

PRETLOW, CALENDAR NO. 127 BY MS. GALEF, CALENDAR NO. 177 BY MR.

ENGLEBRIGHT AND CALENDAR NO. 264 BY MR. HEVESI.

MR. SPEAKER, THERE MAY BE A NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FLOOR

ACTIVITY TODAY. IF IT IS I WILL CERTAINLY BE MAKING YOU GUYS AWARE OF

THAT. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A NEED TODAY FOR A MAJORITY CONFERENCE IN

HEARING ROOM B IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE CONCLUSION OF OUR WORK

TODAY. AND AS ALWAYS, WE WILL CONCUR WITH OUR COLLEAGUES ON THE

OTHER SIDE TO DETERMINE WHAT THEIR NEEDS MAY BE AS WELL.

THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE, MR. SPEAKER. IF THERE'S

HOUSEKEEPING, NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NO HOUSEKEEPING,

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES. BUT WE DO HAVE AN INTRODUCTION BY MS. DARLING.

A DARLING IN HER HANDS.

MS. DARLING: YES. HI, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME

TO INTRODUCE THE NEWEST MEMBER OF OUR FAMILY, BABY LORDE. HE IS TEN

MONTHS TODAY AND TEETHING AND WE ARE SO EXCITED TO HAVE HIM. DAD

RETURNED FROM PATERNITY LEAVE BACK TO THE HOSPITAL AND HE'S VERY SAD

ABOUT THIS, RIGHT? STOP. (BABY CRYING) THIS IS -- THIS IS MY MOMENT,

OKAY? ALL RIGHT. SO HERE IS LORDE. WE'RE JUST SO EXCITED HE'S IN GOOD

HEALTH AND HE'S HERE, AND I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE FOR BEING SO

WELCOMING AND SUPPORTIVE OF US HAVING A LITTLE BABY RIGHT NOW AND --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

(ADDRESSING LORDE) DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SAY?

(LAUGHTER)

MS. DARLING: HE'S A TAURUS. YOU CAN'T TELL HIM

ANYTHING.

(LAUGHTER/APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE TRADITION OF

WEANING DOESN'T DO YOU JUSTICE, THAT'S FOR SURE. SO WE ARE JUST SO

HAPPY THAT YOU'VE ALLOWED YOUR SON TO COME AND SHARE THIS DAY WITH

US. WE HOPE THAT HIS LIFE WILL BE BETTER THAN OURS BECAUSE THAT IS THE

TRADITIONAL HOPE OF ALL PARENTS AND ALL FAMILIES. AND SO GO WITH OUR

LOVE. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

(APPLAUSE)

ON THE MAIN CALENDAR, RESOLUTIONS, PAGE 3, ASSEMBLY

NO. 711, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 711, MRS.

BARRETT.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MARCH 29, 2022 AS VIETNAM VETERANS DAY

IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE OBSERVANCE OF

NATIONAL VIETNAM VETERANS DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. BARRETT ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MRS. BARRETT: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. ON THE

RESOLUTION. VIETNAM VETERANS DAY COMMEMORATES THE SACRIFICES OF

VIETNAM VETERANS AND THEIR FAMILIES. IT'S PART OF A NATIONAL EFFORT TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

RECOGNIZE THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO WERE DENIED A PROPER WELCOME

WHEN THEY CAME HOME SOME 50 YEARS AGO. MORE THAN THREE MILLION

MEN AND WOMEN LEFT THEIR FAMILIES AND HOMES TO SERVE OUR COUNTRY

DURING THIS POLITICALLY-DIVIDED PERIOD OF OUR HISTORY. PATRIOTIC AND

BRAVE, THESE YOUNG AMERICANS PUSHED THROUGH UNFAMILIAR JUNGLES AND

RICE PADDIES, SCORCHING HEAT AND DRENCHING MONSOONS, FIGHTING TO

PROTECT THE IDEALS WE HOLD SO DEAR. AT ITS PEAK APPROXIMATELY 543,000

AMERICAN TROOPS WERE IN VIETNAM. THE HUMAN TOLL WAS PROFOUND.

58,220 SERVICEMEN AND WOMEN DIED. COUNTLESS OTHERS EXPERIENCED

AND MANY STILL LIVE WITH THE PHYSICAL, MENTAL AND MORAL INJURIES OF THAT

SERVICE, AND OF THE WAY THEY WERE TREATED BY THEIR FELLOW AMERICANS,

INCLUDING MANY OLDER VETERANS, ON THEIR RETURN HOME. TOO MANY

VIETNAM VETERANS IN ALL OF OUR DISTRICTS STILL WON'T GO TO THE VA OR

ACCESS OTHER STATE AND FEDERAL SERVICES AND BENEFITS THEY EARNED

BECAUSE OF THOSE EXPERIENCES.

IT IS MY HONOR AS CHAIR OF THE NEW YORK STATE

ASSEMBLY VETERANS AFFAIRS COMMITTEE TO SPONSOR THIS RESOLUTION AND

TO THANK AND RECOGNIZE OUR OWN SERGEANT-AT-ARMS WAYNE JACKSON -

THE CANDYMAN - WAYNE JACKSON FOR HIS SERVICE DURING THIS CONFLICT. I

HOPE WE CAN LEARN FROM THIS PERIOD OF OUR HISTORY AND TAKE THE TIME TO

REFLECT ON WHAT OUR SERVICEMEN AND WOMEN AND THEIR FAMILIES OF EVERY

ERA HAVE BEEN THROUGH EVEN AS WE THANK THEM FOR THEIR SERVICE. IN A

TIMELINE OF RECOGNITION, IT WAS 1984 WHEN NEW YORK BECAME THE FIRST

STATE IN THE NATION TO DEDICATE A VIETNAM MEMORIAL WHEN THE NEW

YORK STATE VIETNAM VETERANS MEMORIAL WAS DEDICATED IN ALBANY TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

COMMEMORATE THOSE MEMBERS OF THE U.S. ARMED FORCES WHO DIED AT

WAR WERE DECLARED MISSING IN ACTION IN VIETNAM. THAT'S RIGHT HERE IN

OUR COMPLEX. CHAPTER 90 OF THE LAWS OF 2008 DESIGNATED MARCH 29TH

OF EACH YEAR AS VIETNAM VETERANS DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, A DAY

OF COMMEMORATION TO HONOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO SACRIFICED FOR THEIR

COUNTRY. AND BY PRESIDENTIAL PROCLAMATION IN 2012, PRESIDENT BARACK

OBAMA DECLARED THAT THE PERIOD OF MEMORIAL DAY FROM MAY 28TH,

2012 THROUGH VETERANS DAY, NOVEMBER 11TH, 2025, THAT SHOULD BE

KNOWN AS COMMEMORATION OF THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE VIETNAM

WAR, A 13-YEAR PROGRAM, TO HONOR AND GIVE THANKS TO A GENERATION OF

PROUD AMERICANS WHO SAW OUR COUNTRY THROUGH ONE OF THE MOST

CHALLENGING OF TIMES. FURTHER, THE UNITED STATES VIETNAM WAR

RECOGNITION ACT OF 2012 -- 2017 ENCOURAGES THE FLYING OF THE

AMERICAN FLAG ON NATIONAL VIETNAM WAR VETERANS DAY EVERY YEAR ON

MARCH 29TH.

SO, I HOPE YOU WILL JOIN ME TODAY IN FLYING THE

AMERICAN FLAG AND IN SUPPORTING THIS RESOLUTION. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

BARRETT.

MR. ANGELINO.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

ALLOWING ME TO CONTINUE MEMORIALIZING OUR VIETNAM VETERANS. THE

VIETNAM WAR ON THEIR CAMPAIGN RIBBON HAS A 1961 AS A START DATE, AND

SOME DISPUTE IT WAS EVEN EARLIER THAN THAT. BUT FROM 1961 TO 1975, A

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

HALF-MILLION U.S. MEN AND WOMEN, MOST OF THEM DRAFTEES, WERE SENT TO

VIETNAM. THOSE WHO WEREN'T DRAFTEES WHO ENLISTED VOLUNTARILY OR WHO

WERE ALREADY IN, THOSE WERE CALLED "LIFERS." AND FOR THE LIFERS WHO

STUCK IT OUT, I WANT TO THANK THEM IN ADDITION TO THOSE WHO WERE

DRAFTED. IT WAS THOSE LIFERS WHO TOOK ME UNDER THEIR WING AS A YOUNG

MARINE IN DESERT STORM, AND EVEN THOUGH WE HAD ALL BEEN THROUGH THE

TRAINING, THE UNITED STATES HAD NOT BEEN THROUGH A LARGE ARMED CONFLICT

IN MANY YEARS. IT WAS THOSE VIETNAM LIFERS THAT TAUGHT ME FIELD CRAFT

AND TAUGHT ME BASICALLY HOW TO STAY ALIVE IN A VERY, VERY HOSTILE

ENVIRONMENT. AND THOSE VIETNAM VETERANS, ONE MENTIONED ALREADY,

THERE ARE MANY OF THEM SURROUNDING US ALL THE TIME. AND THEY'RE QUIET,

THEY DON'T WANT TO SEEK OUT THE PRAISE BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY WERE

WELCOMED HOME. AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THERE'S MORE THAN ONE

IN THIS CHAMBERS TODAY. I OWE A DEBT OF GRATITUDE TO A GENTLEMAN WHO

SITS TO MY LEFT FOR HIS SERVICE OVER THERE, AND HE'S STILL TEACHING ME

TODAY.

SO, TO ALL OF THOSE VIETNAM VETERANS, WELCOME HOME,

AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. MORINELLO.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I

WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE RECOGNITION. I HAD NO PREPARED

STATEMENTS, BUT I'M GOING TO SPEAK FROM THE HEART, IF YOU DON'T MIND.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THERE WAS CONFLICT REGARDING THE PURPOSE OF THE VIETNAM WAR. THEY

CALLED IT A POLITICAL WAR. THEY CALLED IT A CONFLICT. THERE WAS STRIFE

BACK HOME. THAT DID NOT DIMINISH THE BRAVERY OF MYSELF AND MY

FELLOW COMRADES, THOSE WHO MADE IT HOME AND THOSE WHO DID NOT.

AND AT THAT TIME WE WENT BECAUSE WE BELIEVED THAT TO PROTECT OUR

FREEDOMS, THE FREEDOMS TO ALLOW THOSE TO COME INTO THIS BUILDING AND

SCREAM FROM THE MILLION-DOLLAR STAIRWAY FOR THEIR WANTS. THE ABILITY

FOR THOSE TO PROTEST. THE ABILITY FOR THOSE TO -- THAT MAKE DEMANDS.

THAT WAS BECAUSE OF THOSE THAT CHOSE TO HONOR THIS COUNTRY AND DO

THEIR DUTY. WHEN WE GOT BACK WE HAD TO HIDE THE FACT THAT WE HAD

COME BACK FROM VIETNAM. I HAD A LITTLE BIT OF HAIR. BUT I HAD TO BUY A

FAKE MUSTACHE AND I HAD A SUIT MADE IN HONG KONG SO THAT I COULD

THROW MY CLOTHES IN THE GARBAGE. AND WE NEVER LET ANYBODY KNOW,

AND IT WASN'T UNTIL RECENTLY. BUT I WANT TO TELL EVERY MEMBER OF THIS

BODY, IT IS WITH DEEP APPRECIATION THE RECOGNITION YOU ARE GIVING TO

OUR VETERANS IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS. THE RECOGNITION THAT THE --

THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE VETERANS COMMITTEE IS DOING TO PROTECT OUR

FREEDOMS BY RECOGNIZING.

I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE AGAIN AND I WANT TO THANK

THOSE WHO HAVE FINALLY DECIDED TO WELCOME US HOME. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. ASHBY.

MR. ASHBY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'D LIKE TO

THANK THE SPONSOR OF THIS RESOLUTION, AND I'D LIKE TO THANK ALL OF MY

COLLEAGUES ON THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT, THOSE WHO SERVED IN VIETNAM.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

AND LIKE ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES HAD MENTIONED, WHEN I WAS SERVING IT

WAS THOSE VIETNAM VETERANS THAT HAD STAYED IN WHO HELPED US TO

PREPARE A FEW DECADES AGO TO GO BACK TO WAR. AND WHEN I RETURNED,

AGAIN, IT WAS OUR VIETNAM VETERANS WHO HELPED RE-ACCLIMATE AND

HELPED US REINTEGRATE BACK -- BACK INTO SOCIETY. AND THAT IS A DEBT THAT

CAN NEVER BE REPAID. BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE.

AND NOT JUST ON VIETNAM VETERANS DAY, WHICH IS OF UTMOST

IMPORTANCE, BUT WE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE IT EVERY DAY IN OUR DAILY

INTERACTIONS WITH OUR VETERANS, WITH THEIR FAMILIES. BE THOUGHTFUL,

MINDFUL AND CONSIDERATE OF IT IN THE LEGISLATION THAT WE WRITE HERE AND

THAT WE PASS, AND WHAT WE ASPIRE TO DO AS A BODY FOR OUR VETERANS AND

THEIR FAMILIES.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. SPEAKER. THANK YOU TO MR.

JACKSON. THANK YOU, MR. ANGELINO. THANK YOU, MR. MORINELLO, MR.

BLANKENBUSH. PLEASE DISREGARD ME MENTIONING NAMES. THANK YOU,

MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. MANKTELOW.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS RESOLUTION FORWARD. THANK

YOU TO ALL OF OUR VIETNAM VETERANS THAT ARE HERE ON THIS FLOOR. THANK

YOU ALL. I JUST WANT TO SHARE A QUICK STORY. DECEMBER 31ST, 2021, THIS

DECEMBER, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH A VIETNAM VETERAN. HE

WAS AN INFANTRYMAN IN THE JUNGLES. AND I MET WITH HIM IN THE MORNING

AND I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT WITH HIM AND HIS WIFE AND AROUND THEIR

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

TABLE AND JUST LET HIM TELL ME HOW HE FELT, HOW THEY FELT, WHAT THEY

ACCOMPLISHED FOR OUR COUNTRY AND HOW MUCH LOVE THEY STILL HAD FOR OUR

COUNTRY AND STILL HAVE. THAT WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE FINEST MOMENTS

I'VE EVER HAD IN MY LIFE TO SIT WITH THAT GENTLEMAN. AND THEY JUST WANT

TO BE HEARD. THAT EVENING - I DIDN'T REALIZE THIS - MY DAD HAD PASSED

AWAY ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO AND MY MOM IS SEEING A GUY. HIS NAME IS

IVAN. AND HE BROUGHT A VIDEO WITH HIM THAT HIM AND SOME OF HIS

COLLEAGUES HAD MADE, VIETNAM VETERANS. HE WAS A DOOR GUNNER ON A

HUEY, AND HIM AND HIS BUDDIES FROM VIETNAM PUT THIS VIDEO TOGETHER.

AND WERE ABLE TO SEE FOR 45 MINUTES EXACTLY WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH,

EXACTLY HOW THINGS WERE DONE. AND AGAIN, THE AMOUNT OF LOVE,

COURAGE, DEDICATION TO OUR COUNTRY, TO OUR FAMILIES AT SUCH A YOUNG

AGE. THESE MEN AND WOMEN THAT WERE ON THAT BASE, JUST REMARKABLE,

ALSO IN THE TESTIMONY THAT THEY GAVE US.

AND TO CLOSE, I JUST -- I JUST WANT TO SHARE THIS LAST

THING, MR. SPEAKER. WHEN I WAS GOING THROUGH BASIC TRAINING MY

SENIOR DRILL INSTRUCTOR, SERGEANT FIRST CLASS GARVEY, HE WAS A VIETNAM

VETERAN AND ALSO A U.S. ARMY TANKER, AS I WAS AS WELL. AND THE THINGS

HE TAUGHT US ABOUT HIMSELF, ABOUT WHAT THEY HAD BEEN THROUGH, WHAT

THEY HAD SEEN AND THE DIRECTION THEY GAVE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US AS

RECRUITS AND SOON-TO-BE E1S AND E2S HAS SERVED ME WELL THROUGHOUT

MY WHOLE LIFE. HE HELPED AND SERVED EVERYONE ELSE THAT WAS IN MY

COMPANY IN THAT PLATOON AT THE SAME TIME.

SO AGAIN, MADAM SPONSOR, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING

THIS RESOLUTION FORWARD. THANK YOU AGAIN TO ALL OF OUR VIETNAM

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

VETERANS THAT ARE HERE, THE ONES THAT JUST CAME IN THE BACK OF THE

CHAMBER. MAY GOD BLESS ALL OF THOSE VETERANS, THEIR FAMILIES, AND

MAY THEY WATCH OVER THEM AND MAY WE TRULY APPRECIATE THE FREEDOMS

WE HAVE BECAUSE OF THEM. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MS. GRIFFIN.

MS. GRIFFIN: THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK

ON THIS RESOLUTION. FIRST, I WANTED TO THANK OUR CHAIR OF VETERANS FOR

BRINGING THIS RESOLUTION FORWARD. I WANT TO THANK ALL OF OUR MEMBERS

ON THE FLOOR WHO ARE VETERANS, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE

VISITING TODAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. AND I ALSO JUST WANT TO

TELL A BIT -- A LITTLE STORY ABOUT MY DISTRICT. I'M -- I REPRESENT AD 21,

AND WE HAVE -- IT'S IN NASSAU COUNTY, LONG ISLAND -- WE HAVE A LOT OF

VETERANS. SO, WHEN I FIRST GOT ELECTED I STARTED A VETERAN'S ADVISORY

COMMITTEE FOR ASSEMBLY DISTRICT 21. WE MEET MONTHLY -- NOT SO

MUCH DURING HUNTING SEASON, BUT WE MEET MONTHLY. WE HAVE A

VETERANS RUN WHERE WE RAISE MONEY FOR THEIR HALLS AND THEN EACH

OCTOBER I DO A VETERANS HALL OF HONOR. AND THIS PAST OCTOBER I WAS

ABLE TO HONOR MY COUSIN BUDDY WHO FOUGHT IN THE VIETNAM WAR. AND

WHEN I WAS IN KINDERGARTEN BUDDY WAS IN VIETNAM AND HE USED TO

SEND ME LETTERS. AND THE THING I WAS MOST PROUD OF THAT BUDDY SENT

ME MONEY - I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW YOU SAY VIETNAMESE MONEY - BUT

ANYWAY, HE SENT ME SOME DOLLARS OF VIETNAMESE MONEY, AND I WAS SO

PROUD TO GO INTO KINDERGARTEN SHOW AND TELL AND -- AND SHOW THAT

MONEY FROM COUSIN BUDDY. AND IT WAS AN HONOR THIS OCTOBER THAT I

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

GOT TO HONOR BUDDY AND HIS WHOLE FAMILY, WHO ARE MY FAMILY, WE ALL

GOT TO BE THERE.

SO, I JUST WANT TO SAY AGAIN, THANK YOU TO ALL THE

VETERANS WHO HAVE SACRIFICED SO MUCH FOR ALL OF US. THANK YOU AND

GOD BLESS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. LAWLER ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK

YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR PUTTING THIS RESOLUTION FORWARD. I GOT STARTED IN

MY POLITICAL CAREER WORKING FOR A VIETNAM VETERAN, FORMER UNITED

STATES SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN IN HIS 2008 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. AND

HIS MANTRA WAS "TO SERVE A CAUSE GREATER THAN ONE'S OWN SELF INTEREST."

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR VIETNAM VETERANS, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY

DID. TO A PERSON, THEY SERVED A CAUSE GREATER THAN THEIR OWN SELF

INTEREST. AND THEY TOOK NOT JUST THE BULLETS ON THE BATTLEFIELDS, BUT THE

SLINGS AND ARROWS WHEN THEY CAME HOME. AND THEY ALWAYS TOOK IT

WITH GREAT COURAGE AND HUMILITY AND SACRIFICE FOR OUR COUNTRY AND IN

DEFENSE OF FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY. AND WHEN I WORKED FOR SENATOR

MCCAIN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WAS REALLY STRUCK BY WAS THAT DURING

THE VIETNAM WAR, WITH THE MANY PRISONERS OF WAR AND THOSE MISSING IN

ACTION, SENATOR BOB DOLE WORE A BRACELET WITH SENATOR MCCAIN'S NAME

ON IT, ALONG WITH MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WHO WORE BRACELETS. AND I

WAS MOVED BY THAT, AND MOVED DURING THE 2008 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN

WHEN SENATOR MCCAIN WORE THE BRACELET OF A FALLEN SOLDIER IN THE IRAQ

WAR. AND SINCE THAT TIME, I HAVE WORE A BRACELET EVERY DAY OF A

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MARINE WHO WAS KILLED IN THE IRAQ WAR. AND I KNOW THERE ARE OTHER

MEMBERS IN THIS CHAMBER WHO DO AS WELL. AND SO WHAT IS IMPORTANT

IN THAT AND WHAT IS IMPORTANT IN WHAT SENATOR DOLE DID WEARING THAT

BRACELET OF SENATOR MCCAIN IS TO ALWAYS REMEMBER THE SERVICEMEN AND

WOMEN WHO SERVED THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVE MADE THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE

IN DEFENSE OF THIS COUNTRY. AND SO ESPECIALLY TODAY ON VIETNAM

VETERANS DAY, WE THANK THOSE SERVICEMEN AND WOMEN WHO DID MAKE

THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE IN THE VIETNAM WAR AND IN THE WARS BEFORE AND

SINCE IN DEFENSE OF OUR COUNTRY.

AND I WANT TO CLOSE BY RECOGNIZING THE VIETNAM

VETERANS CHAPTER 333 OF ROCKLAND COUNTY. THEY DO TREMENDOUS

WORK EVERY DAY IN SUPPORT OF THEIR FELLOW SERVICE MEMBERS AND IN

SUPPORT OF OUR COMMUNITY. AND THEY ARE A WONDERFUL ORGANIZATION

AND WE ARE FORTUNATE TO HAVE THEM IN ROCKLAND COUNTY.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MRS. GALEF.

MRS. GALEF: I RISE BECAUSE I HAVE SO MUCH RESPECT

FOR THOSE THAT HAVE SERVED OUR NATION AND PROVIDED WITH US THE

FREEDOMS THAT WE LIVE TODAY AND WE LIVE TODAY HERE. AND WE

RECOGNIZE WHAT'S HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD WHEN THERE AREN'T THOSE

FREEDOMS. BUT ENTERING OUR CHAMBER TODAY ARE A NUMBER OF VETERANS

FROM MY AREA. WILLIE NAZARIO IS HERE - MAYBE YOU COULD STAND UP -

AND OTHERS. WILLIE IS FROM MY DISTRICT, AND HE HAS -- HE'S A MEMBER OF

THE PURPLE HEART, ALONG WITH OUR WONDERFUL WAYNE JACKSON. AND WE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

WORKED VERY HARD TO RENAME THE BEAR MOUNTAIN BRIDGE THE PURPLE

HEART MEMORIAL BRIDGE. BUT THE -- THE GROUP THAT'S HERE TODAY HAS

WORKED VERY HARD IN OUR COMMUNITIES. IN THE TOWN OF CORTLAND THEY

HAVE AN ADVISORY BOARD THAT ADVISES EACH OF US AS LEGISLATORS ON THE

ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THEM AND IMPORTANT TO US. AND, YOU KNOW,

THEY GO FORWARD ON A FEDERAL LEVEL TO DO THE SAME. THEY'VE

ESTABLISHED AND THROUGH OUR -- OUR LEADER, THE VETERANS COMMITTEE

PEER-TO-PEER GROUPS WHICH IS HELPING OTHER PEOPLE, AS BEEN SAID BY ONE

OF OUR COLLEAGUES. JUST WONDERFUL SERVICE. BUT WHAT IS BEFORE US RIGHT

NOW IS DESTRUCTION OF THE VA HOSPITALS, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE

REALLY, REALLY HAVE TO WORK ON. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY OUR ISSUE, IT'S A

FEDERAL ISSUE. BUT IT IS OUR ISSUE FOR OUR VETERANS. SO WHATEVER WE CAN

DO TO HELP IN THAT AREA. AND I JUST -- AGAIN, MY -- MY GREAT RESPECT FOR

EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE DONE DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME. I KIND OF LIVED

THROUGH THE VIETNAM WAR PERIOD. I HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS THAT WENT TO

VIETNAM, LOST ARMS, LEGS AND EVERYTHING, AND IT WAS A VERY, VERY

DIFFICULT TIME. BUT WE'RE SO GLAD THAT YOU'RE HERE AND YOU'VE PROTECTED

US ALL THESE MANY, MANY YEARS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. LAVINE.

MR. LAVINE: THANKS, MR. SPEAKER. I SUPPOSE -

AND NO ONE KNOWS THIS MORE THAN OUR VETERANS WHO ARE HERE - THAT

WE'VE ALWAYS LIVED IN DIFFICULT TIMES. SOMETIMES A LITTLE BETTER,

SOMETIMES A LITTLE WORSE. BUT I WANT TO REMEMBER AND THINK ABOUT THE

VIETNAM DAYS. I REMEMBER THAT THERE WAS A CRUEL TWIST OF FATE THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

OCCURRED DURING THE COURSE OF AMERICA'S INVOLVEMENT IN THAT WAR.

INITIALLY, THOSE WHO PROTESTED WERE THE SUBJECT OF ANGER AND

AGGRESSION. THE ODD AND THE CRUEL AND THE UNFATHOMABLE TWIST OF FATE

WAS THAT AS THE WAR YEARS WENT ON AND OUR TROOPS RETURNED HOME, THAT

ANGER, THAT AGGRESSION WAS TOO OFTEN DIRECTED TO OUR RETURNING TROOPS.

THAT WILL NEVER, EVER HAPPEN AGAIN. AND NO TROOPS, AMERICAN TROOPS

RETURNING FROM ANY CONFLICT WILL EVER AGAIN BE MET WITH THAT SAME

ATTITUDE. AND FOR THAT WE CAN THANK THE VIETNAM VETERANS. A PROFOUND

THANKS. AND AS I LOOK AT THE BOARD ABOVE WITH THE RESOLUTION -- AND I

WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE RESOLUTION. SO FIT AND SO APPROPRIATE.

ON A PERSONAL NOTE I THINK OF MY CHILDHOOD FRIEND STEVE MICHALSKI.

STEVE WAS THE FIRST KID IN OUR HIGH SCHOOL TO HAVE A BEATLES HAIRCUT.

TO GREAT REGRET, STEVE NEVER RETURNED FROM VIETNAM.

SO, I THANK -- THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SHARE MY

THOUGHTS WITH YOU AND MAY GOD BLESS AND PROTECT OUR VETERANS AND OUR

TROOPS. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. LUNSFORD.

MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AND

THANK YOU ALSO TO THE SPONSOR. MY FATHER WAS DRAFTED INTO VIETNAM IN

1964 AND HE SERVED THROUGH 1965, WHICH WAS OF COURSE A VERY, VERY

CHALLENGING PERIOD DURING THAT WAR. HE CAME HOME WITH TWO BRONZE

SERVICE STARS AND SCARS THAT WE COULDN'T SEE. AND HIS ENTIRE LIFE HE

SUFFERED WITH THE EMOTIONAL WEIGHT OF THE FACT THAT HE CAME HOME AND

THAT MANY OF HIS FRIENDS DIDN'T. HE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT HIS TIME IN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

VIETNAM. EVER. IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, THE ONLY STORIES HE EVER TOLD ME

WERE KIND OF AROUND THAT EXPERIENCE. BECAUSE UNLIKE OUR WORLD WAR

II VETERANS WHO CAME HOME TO TICKER TAPE PARADES, HE CAME HOME TO

ANIMOSITY. AND I DON'T THINK HE FELT LIKE HE COULD ADDRESS THE REALITY OF

WHAT HE EXPERIENCED. ONE OF THE STORIES HE WOULD TELL, THOUGH, WAS

THAT HE DIDN'T TELL HIS FAMILY HE WAS COMING HOME. HE ARRIVED AT THE

AIRPORT AND GOT ON A TRAIN OUT TO LONG ISLAND. AND THE TRAIN WAS FULL.

AND HE WALKED ON IN HIS CIVILIAN CLOTHES, AND FROM WAY, WAY BACK IN

THE CAR ONE GUY STOOD UP AND HE WALKED TO THE FRONT AND HE GAVE MY

DAD A SEAT. AND MY DAD SAID HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HOW THIS GUY KNEW

WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I'M GOING TO GUESS IT WAS HIS HAIRCUT. BUT HE --

HE TOOK THAT SEAT. AND HE SAID THAT THAT GESTURE MEANT SO MUCH TO HIM

BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE ACKNOWLEDGED WHAT HE HAD GONE THROUGH. AND I

THINK THAT THAT IS A STORY FAMILIAR TO MANY PEOPLE WHO SERVED. AND WE

HERE TODAY NOT ONLY HONOR THOSE SACRIFICES AND THOSE LOSSES, BUT THAT

SERVICE. BECAUSE MY DAD DIDN'T ASK TO GO TO WAR. BUT THAT DOESN'T

MAKE HIS SACRIFICE ANY LESS REAL AND ANY LESS MEANINGFUL.

SO THANK YOU AGAIN TO THE SPONSOR. THANK YOU TO

EVERYONE WHO SERVED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO CLOSE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. I CERTAINLY WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR OF THIS RESOLUTION. AND

I REALLY JUST RISE TO HONOR ALL VETERANS, AND PARTICULARLY THOSE VETERANS

WHO SERVED IN THE VIETNAM WAR. MOST OF YOU KNOW I'M FROM A LARGE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

FAMILIES, SO JUST A TON OF MY FIRST AND SECOND COUSINS WERE STILL BEING

DRAFTED. AND THEY DID SERVE IN VIETNAM. THE UNFORTUNATE THING IS THAT

ALMOST HALF OF THEM DID NOT COME BACK LIKE THEY LEFT. THEY CAME BACK

WITH ALL SORTS OF ISSUES BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY EXPERIENCED WHILE THEY

WERE THERE. AND THEY DID NOT COME BACK TO A WELCOMING COMMUNITY.

AND SO WHILE I HONOR ALL THE VETERANS WHO'VE EVER SERVED US BOTH IN

THIS HOUSE AND ACROSS THE WORLD, I ALSO WANT TO HONOR WARREN

GALLOWAY, WHO IS -- HE SERVED IN THE VIETNAM WAR. HE, LIKE MY

COUSINS, WENT IN VOLUNTARILY BUT HE WENT -- HE SERVED AND HE CAME

BACK AND HE WAS NOT APPRECIATED WHEN HE GOT BACK. RIGHT NOW HE

SERVES WITH ME AS A CO-CHAIR OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN VETERANS

MONUMENT IN THE GREAT CITY OF BUFFALO. THIS IS A MONUMENT THAT'S

DESIGNED TO HONOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN VETERANS FOR ALL 12 WARS THAT AS A

PEOPLE WE'VE ALWAYS FOUGHT IN, FOR ALL BRANCHES AND FOR ALL VETERANS

EITHER ALL SERVING NOW OR THOSE WHO SERVED IN THE PAST. AND I WANT TO

HONOR WARREN GALLOWAY BECAUSE HE OFTEN SAYS THAT HIS OPPORTUNITY TO

SERVE IN THIS CAPACITY AS THE CO-CHAIR OF THIS MONUMENT COMMITTEE

FEELS LIKE HIS TICKER TAPE PARADE THAT HE DIDN'T GET WHEN HE RETURNED

FROM VIETNAM. AND WHILE NO VETERANS WHO RETURNED FROM VIETNAM

GOT A TICKER TAPE PARADE, THEY ARE ALL DESERVING OF A TICKER TAPE PARADE

EVERY DAY BECAUSE THEY PROVIDED A SERVICE THAT MANY OF US COULD NOT,

AND WE'RE VERY APPRECIATIVE OF THEM.

SO, I JUST WANT TO HONOR ALL VETERANS AND PARTICULARLY

THOSE WHO SERVED IN VIETNAM. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

PEOPLES-STOKES.

WILL THE MEMBERS RISE AS WE VOTE ON THIS RESOLUTION?

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

LET US THANK OUR MEMBERS HERE.

(APPLAUSE)

FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION,

ASSEMBLYMEMBER BYRNE.

MR. BYRNE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE FOR THE

PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION ON BEHALF OF MYSELF AND MR. GIBBS, AND I

WILL SAY MRS. GALEF FROM THE 95TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT. WE ARE BLESSED

TO BE VISITED BY MANY OF OUR MILITARY HEROES AND SERVICE MEMBERS

FROM THE VIETNAM WAR. ONE OF THE -- SOME OF THEM MAY HAVE BEEN

MENTIONED BEFORE. WE HAVE WILLIE NAZARIO, WHO IS FROM THE -- SERVED

IN THE UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS. I BELIEVE HE'S FROM THE TOWN OF

CORTLAND. WE HAVE ART HANLEY, WHO IS AN ARMY VETERAN AND ALSO

SERVES AS THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR THE PUTNAM COUNTY VETERANS

SERVICES DEPARTMENT. WE ALSO HAVE EUGENE LANGE FROM WESTCHESTER

COUNTY IN YORKTOWN WHO IS ALSO AN ARMY VETERAN AND PURPLE HEART

RECIPIENT, AS IS WILLIE NAZARIO. HARRY SERCOM (PHONETIC), WHO IS A

GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, AND ARMY -- I'M SORRY, A MARINE CORPS VETERAN

FROM THE TOWN OF SOUTHEAST, BOBBY MAZZUCCA (PHONETIC), WHO IS A --

IS A MILITARY VETERAN AS WELL. AND ROBERT RODCAMP (PHONETIC) FROM

BREWSTER IS A -- IS A VETERAN FROM BREWSTER AS WELL. AND AGAIN, WE'RE

GOING TO DO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, MAKE THIS BIPARTISAN AND

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

WE'RE GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO MR. GIBBS TO INTRODUCE THE REST OF OUR

MILITARY HEROES WHO ARE HERE THIS AFTERNOON.

MR. GIBBS: THANKS, DAVE [SIC]. SO, WE'RE GOING TO

INTRODUCE MY GOOD BUDDY STEVE C (PHONETIC) FROM THE ARMY. JAMES

MECCA FROM THE ARMY, AS WELL AS TORI HEDSTEAD (PHONETIC) FROM THE

ARMY.

MR. BYRNE: THANK YOU. AND MR. SPEAKER, EXTEND

THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR AND GIVE THEM A GREAT BIG ALBANY

WELCOME.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF

OF MR. BYRNE AND MR. GIBBS, OUR ODD COUPLE, WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO

THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE

FLOOR ON BEHALF OF THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS. WE HONOR YOU FOR

YOUR SERVICE AND YOUR COMMITMENT AND THE FACT THAT YOU CONTINUE TO

STRUGGLE AND MAKE THIS A BETTER WORLD FOR ALL OF THOSE WHO SERVED WITH

YOU. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME HERE.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. EPSTEIN FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. EPSTEIN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'D LIKE TO

WELCOME MY AUNT, MY MOTHER'S MUCH YOUNGER SISTER, TO THE FLOOR,

PAULA GALOWITZ (PHONETIC). SHE'S COME HERE FROM NEW YORK CITY. I

WISH -- YOU KNOW, SHE'S BEEN AN INSPIRATION FOR ME ALL MY LIFE, HELPING

WITH MY PROFESSIONAL CAREER. IT'S REALLY LOVELY TO HAVE HER IN THE

CHAMBERS. I HOPE WE WELCOME HER AND PROVIDE HER THE CORDIALITIES OF

THE FLOOR TO HER AS WELL.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF

OF MR. EPSTEIN, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU

HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY. GLAD THAT YOU'VE LOOKED AFTER

HIM ALL THESE YEARS. YOU'VE DONE A FINE JOB. WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE

HIM. CONTINUE THAT WORK BECAUSE HE CONTINUES TO NEED SOME LOOKING

AFTER. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH AND WELCOME HERE.

(APPLAUSE)

CALENDAR A, PAGE 3, RULES REPORT NO. 68, THE CLERK

WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09607, RULES REPORT

NO. 68, HEASTIE. AN ACT EXTENDING THE TIME WITHIN WHICH CERTAIN

APPOINTED OFFICERS MAY TAKE OR FILE THEIR OATHS OF OFFICE OR OFFICIAL

UNDERTAKINGS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MR. ZEBROWSKI.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANKS, MR. SPEAKER. IT'S MY

PLEASURE TO OFFER THIS BILL BEFORE THE HOUSE AND GIVE AN EXPLANATION FOR

SPEAKER HEASTIE. THIS BILL WOULD PROVIDE AN OFFICIAL ELECTED OR

APPOINTED OFFICER WITHIN ANY CITY OF NEW YORK STATE AS OF JANUARY 1ST,

2022 THROUGH MARCH 31ST, 2022 WHO FAILS TO TAKE OR FILE A RESPECTIVE

OATH OF OFFICE OR TAKE AN OFFICIAL UNDERTAKING WOULD CONTINUE TO SERVE

IN SUCH CAPACITY FOR THE DURATION OF THE TERM. MR. SPEAKER, THIS WILL

CORRECT AN OVERSIGHT, AND I'LL JUST POINT OUT TO MY COLLEAGUES, MAYBE

CUT OFF SOME QUESTIONS, IT'S A -- IT'S A THING THE LEGISLATURE HAS DONE

FROM TIME TO TIME TO HELP OUT OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. IT WAS DONE IN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THE PAST FOR OUR GOOD COLLEAGUE MR. FITZPATRICK, CHAPTER 30 OF THE

LAWS OF 2014 FOR SMITHTOWN; OUR GOOD COLLEAGUE MR. OTIS, CHAPTER 94

OF THE LAWS OF 2016. AND I THINK WE WOULD SEEK TO GIVE SIMILAR

CONSIDERATION TO THE REQUEST OF ANY MUNICIPALITY WHERE THERE MIGHT

HAVE BEEN AN OVERSIGHT IN THE FUTURE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. LAWLER.

MR. LAWLER: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI

YIELDS, SIR.

MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU. SO I WILL REFER YOU TO A

DAILY NEWS ARTICLE FROM YESTERDAY, MARCH 28, 2022, WHICH TALKS ABOUT

NEW YORK CITY COMPTROLLER BRAD LANDER ASKING ALBANY TO FIX AN

ERROR THAT COULD RESULT IN HIM LOSING HIS POST. SO, IS THAT THE IMPETUS

FOR THIS BILL, MR. LANDER'S SITUATION?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WE'VE BEEN MADE OF AWARE OF A

FEW SITUATIONS, MR. LANDER ONE OF THEM. I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF

OTHER APPOINTED OFFICIALS WHERE THERE WERE SOME MISTAKES OR

OVERSIGHTS MADE. MR. LANDER'S I BELIEVE IS A SURETY BOND THAT WAS

FILLED OUT BUT NOT MAYBE FILED IN THE RIGHT SPOT, WHICH WAS THE CITY

CLERK. IT'S INTERESTING IN OUR RESEARCH, IT MAY SEEM AS THAT OTHER

COMPTROLLERS PAST HAVE NOT FILED IT IN THE PROPER PLACE. MAYBE WE'LL

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

TALK ABOUT THIS IN THE FUTURE. BUT FOR RIGHT NOW WE WANT TO MAKE SURE

THAT WE RESPECT THE WILL OF THE VOTERS IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK LIKE

WE'VE DONE IN SMITHTOWN OR OTHER PLACES AND MAKE SURE THAT

GOVERNMENT EFFICIENTLY RUNS WITHOUT ANY HICCUPS, FOR THE LACK OF A

BETTER WORD.

MR. LAWLER: NOW, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, UNDER BOTH

PUBLIC OFFICER'S LAW AS WELL AS THE NEW YORK CITY ADMINISTRATIVE

CODE SECTION 3-301, SO MR. LANDER, AS THE NEW YORK CITY

COMPTROLLER, IS SUPPOSED TO FILE HIS OATH OF OFFICE, WHICH I BELIEVE HE

DID, AND HE'S SUPPOSED TO FILE A SURETY BOND TO ENSURE HE WOULD, QUOTE,

"FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THE DUTIES", END QUOTE, OF HIS OFFICE. SO AS I

UNDERSTAND IT, HE HAS SEEMINGLY FILED IT WITH THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE BUT

IT WAS AFTER THE 30-DAY WINDOW IN WHICH HE WAS SUPPOSED TO; IS THAT

CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THAT'S THE FACT PATTERN AS I

UNDERSTAND IT AS WELL.

MR. LAWLER: OKAY. AND AS YOU MADE REFERENCE

TO, IT WOULD APPEAR AS THOUGH BASED ON NEWS REPORTS - AND WE WILL TAKE

THEM AT FACE VALUE FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS DISCUSSION - IT WOULD APPEAR

THAT BOTH OF HIS PREDECESS -- HIS IMMEDIATE PREDECESSOR AND THE

PREDECESSOR BEFORE HIM BOTH FAILED TO FILE THEIR SURETY BOND WITH THE

CITY CLERK. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT TO BE CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WHILE I HAVE NO DIRECT

KNOWLEDGE, I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT HAS BEEN ASSERTED. I JUST CAN'T

INDEPENDENTLY VERIFY IT FOR YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. LAWLER: SO GIVEN THAT -- ACCORDING TO THAT

FACT PATTERN, GIVEN THAT NEITHER ONE OF THEM PREVIOUSLY FILED WITH THE

CITY CLERK WITHIN THE REQUIRED 30-DAY WINDOW AND I DON'T BELIEVE

EITHER ONE OF THEM WAS REMOVED FROM OFFICE FOR NOT DOING SO, WHY IS

THIS BILL NECESSARY FOR MR. LANDER IF IT WAS NOT TAKEN UP ON THE PRIOR

TWO FOLKS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY

RAISED IT. SO NOW THAT IT'S BEEN RAISED, CERTAINLY WE WANT TO MAKE SURE

THAT THE LETTER OF THE LAW IS FOLLOWED. SO WHY TAKE ANY CHANCES IF WE'RE

NOW MADE AWARE OF THIS SITUATION?

MR. LAWLER: OKAY. SO, IF THERE IS CONCERN THAT

THE 30-DAY WINDOW APPLIES AND THAT MR. LANDER DID NOT FOLLOW THAT

30-DAY REQUIREMENT AND NOW WE ARE MADE AWARE OF IT, THOUGH WE MAY

NOT HAVE BEEN MADE AWARE OF IT IN THE PRIOR TWO INSTANCES, HOW ARE WE

GOING TO RETROACTIVELY GO BACK AND EXTEND THIS PERIOD FOR HIM TO FILE?

SHOULDN'T HE BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: NO, I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK WE

CAN AMEND THE LAW, AS WE DO AT ANY TIME. I ALSO THINK IN MANY CASES

THERE'S A PRESUMPTION OF VALIDITY TAKEN OR GIVEN TO THESE OFFICIALS OR TO

GOVERNMENT ACTIONS. AND CERTAINLY I THINK WITH THE PASSAGE OF THIS IT

WOULD SHOW OUR INTENT THAT THE WILL OF THE VOTERS BE RESPECTED, THAT THIS

BE WAIVED BY AMENDMENT OF THE LAW, LIKE I SAID, AS WE'VE DONE IN OUR

BRIEF RESEARCH TWO OTHER TIMES FOR OTHER COLLEAGUES DEALING WITH LOCAL

GOVERNMENTS. AND I THINK -- I THINK THE LAW -- I THINK THE ACTIONS OF

THE COMPTROLLER WILL STAND. SOMEBODY COULD CERTAINLY AVAIL

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THEMSELVES OF THE COURTS IF THEY WANTED TO, BUT IN MY OPINION A JUDGE

WOULD -- WOULD DISPATCH THIS WITH GREAT HASTE, SEEING -- USING THEIR

COMMON SENSE AND USING THE INTENT OF THE LEGISLATURE THE FACT THAT

WE'RE PASSING THIS LAW AND LOOKING AT THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE OTHER COMPTROLLERS ALSO PERHAPS ALSO HAD THIS

OVERSIGHT.

MR. LAWLER: I BELIEVE WE IN ROCKLAND COUNTY

HAD A SITUATION WITHIN THE LAST YEAR OR SO IN THE VILLAGE OF POMONA

WHERE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL DID NOT FILE THEIR OATH OF OFFICE AND THEY WERE

REMOVED. SO -- AND I BELIEVE IT WENT TO COURT IN THAT -- IN THAT INSTANCE.

BUT, I MEAN, THERE IS PRECEDENCE FOR SOMEBODY TO BE REMOVED FOR NOT

FILING THEIR -- THEIR OATH OF OFFICE, OR IN THIS CASE UNDER NEW YORK CITY

ADMINISTRATIVE CODE NOT FILING THE SURETY BOND. AND SINCE THE PUBLIC

HAS BEEN MADE AWARE OF THIS AND WE ARE NOW MADE AWARE OF THIS, I'M

JUST WONDERING WHY THE 30 DAYS WOULDN'T TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WHY THE 30 DAYS?

MR. LAWLER: THE 30-DAY REQUIREMENT THAT HE WAS

SUPPOSED TO FILE, AND WHY WOULDN'T THAT TAKE EFFECT AS SOON AS WE'RE

MADE AWARE? HE MISSED THE 30 DAYS. SO SHOULD -- IF -- IF THERE IS A

REQUIREMENT THAT THEY BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE FOR FAILURE TO FILE, WHY

WOULDN'T THAT TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME OTHER

FACT PATTERNS THAT I THINK MUDDY THE WATERS A BIT. PERHAPS THE CITY

CLERK HAD A REQUIREMENT TO GIVE NOTICE THAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FILED

AND THAT WASN'T DONE. I THINK TO ME WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE IS TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

FIX IT. WE'RE HERE TO FIX PROBLEMS. WE FIX THEM FOR OTHER

MUNICIPALITIES. WE DO THINGS AT TIMES TO FIX WHEN THERE SEEMS TO BE AN

OVERSIGHT IN STATE LAW. WE TAKE IT ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS. I THINK IF

YOU LOOK AT THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES HERE, THIS MAKES SENSE ON

WHAT TO DO HERE SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS

UNFORESEEN GAPS IN THE DUTIES OF THE COMPTROLLER AND -- AND THINGS THE

COMPTROLLER HAS DONE. AND, YOU KNOW, THE ELECTION HAPPENED. THE

PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK SAID WHO THEY WANTED TO BE

COMPTROLLER, SO I THINK THIS MAKES SENSE TO RESPECT THAT AND TO -- IT

MAKES SENSE FOR THE OVERALL EFFICIENT RUNNING OF GOVERNMENT.

MR. LAWLER: IS THERE ANY CONCERN THAT OFFICIAL

ACTS THAT HE TOOK DURING THE MONTHS OF FEBRUARY AND NOW INTO MARCH

ARE INVALID?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: NOT BY ME. AND I THINK

CERTAINLY IF WE PASS THIS BILL AND IT GETS SIGNED INTO LAW, I THINK THAT

WILL MAKE ANY OF THOSE CONCERNS MOOT.

MR. LAWLER: DO WE KNOW IF -- LET'S SAY THIS BILL

WERE NOT TO PASS -- THOUGH IT'S ON THE FLOOR SO I WOULD SAY IT'S PROBABLY

A CERTAINTY THAT IT WILL -- BUT IN -- IN THE EVENT THAT IT DOES NOT, WHAT

WOULD HAPPEN?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DON'T PARTICULARLY KNOW OR -- OR

I DON'T HAVE AN ABILITY TO TELL YOU WITH GREAT CERTAINTY. IF I WAS A JUDGE

AND SOMEONE BROUGHT THIS BETWEEN -- BEFORE ME AND I WAS WEIGHING

THE LETTER OF THE LAW AND ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES, I WOULD PROBABLY

ATTEMPT TO FOLLOW THE LAW WHILE ALSO ATTEMPTING TO RESPECT THE WILL OF

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THE -- THE VOTERS. AND I VERY WELL MAY BE -- MAY FALL DOWN ON THE SIDE

OF KEEPING THE COMPTROLLER AND NOT DISPATCHING HIM FROM OFFICE

BECAUSE OF A TECHNICAL REQUIREMENT LIKE THIS. BUT I'M NOT A JUDGE, SO I

DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.

MR. LAWLER: THERE -- THERE -- THERE IS CERTAINLY A

PRECEDENT THAT HIS PAST TWO PREDECESSORS DID NOT LEAVE OFFICE FOR FAILURE

TO FILE THIS WITH THE CITY CLERK.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES. AND THOUGH THEY SEEMED

TO FULFILL THEIR DUTIES, AND I'M SURE THERE ARE THINGS THEY DID, BONDS THEY

TOOK OUT, I -- I DON'T KNOW, THINGS THAT THE NEW YORK CITY COMPTROLLER

DID THAT ARE STILL IN EFFECT RIGHT NOW, THAT IF YOU SOMEHOW NULLIFY THOSE

ACTIONS IT WOULD CREATE SOME CHAOS. AND I THINK A JUDGE WOULD

ATTEMPT TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION IN A RULING.

MR. LAWLER: OKAY. THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR.

AND ALL OF MY QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. THANK YOU.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANKS, MR. LAWLER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES. I'M SORRY, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI

YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. ZEBROWSKI. SO

UNDER SECTION 30 OF THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IF AN ELECTED OFFICIAL FAILS

TO FILE THEIR OATH OF OFFICE OR THEIR UNDERTAKING AS -- AS NECESSARY WITHIN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

30 DAYS IT SAYS THE OFFICE SHALL BE VACANT AS A MATTER OF LAW. AS A

MATTER OF SECTION 30 OF THE PUBLIC OFFICER'S LAW. SO, ONCE AN OFFICE IS

VACANT -- AND THE CITY COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE IS VACANT RIGHT NOW AS A

MATTER OF LAW, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH -- THE CITY CHARTER, AS I

UNDERSTAND, HAS A PROCEDURE FOR FILLING THE VACANCY, PURSUANT TO WHICH

THE CITY COUNCIL HAS THE POWER TO FILL THAT VACANCY. WHY SHOULD WE

PREEMPT THE CITY COUNCIL'S AUTHORITY TO FILL THE VACANCY?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I THINK IT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF

THE LEGISLATURE TO STEP IN WHEN THERE ARE OVERSIGHTS LIKE THIS, LOOK AT

THE CIRCUMSTANCES ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS AND MAKE THE BEST DECISION.

WE THINK THIS IS THE BEST DECISION. I THINK THE COMPTROLLER'S ACTIONS

HAVE A PRESUMPTION OF VALIDITY. I CERTAINLY THINK THE WILL OF THE VOTERS

SHOULD HAVE A PRESUMPTION OF VALIDITY. AND I DON'T REMEMBER THE

EXACT -- THE CASE DURING 2014, LIKE I SAID, ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES HAD A

LAW IN 2016, BUT I PRESUME IT WAS PROBABLY SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND IN THOSE TOWNS OR VILLAGES WE MADE A DECISION TO TAKE STATE ACTION

TO ENSURE THAT THE WILL OF THE VOTERS ARE RESPECTED AND I THINK WE

SHOULD DO THE SAME THING HERE. AND I THINK IF WE PASS THIS BILL, AS WE

SAY MAYBE SOMETIMES IN COMMON -- COMMON PARLANCE, NO HARM, NO

FOUL.

MR. GOODELL: AND I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWER

WHICH YOU ALREADY MENTIONED BEFORE ALL THE REASONS AND I APPRECIATE

YOU REPEATING THOSE. BUT MY QUESTION IS, WHY DON'T WE RELY ON THE

CITY COUNCIL TO EXERCISE THEIR LEGAL AUTHORITY TO FILL THE VACANCY? I

MEAN, PRESUMABLY EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED WOULD APPLY EQUALLY TO A

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

DECISION BY THE CITY COUNCIL. WHY ARE WE TAKING IT AWAY FROM THE

CITY COUNCIL AND EXERCISING OUR DISCRETION? SHOULDN'T WE RESPECT THEIR

ROLE AND LET THEM CONSIDER EVERY COMMENT YOU JUST MADE IN

DETERMINING WHO AND THEN THEY WOULD CERTAINLY BE FREE TO REAPPOINT

THE CURRENT ONE, CORRECT? SO MY QUESTION --

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I -- I DON'T --

MR. GOODELL: WHY IS IT TAKEN AWAY FROM THE CITY

COUNCIL?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I THINK WE HAVE A PREROGATIVE AS

THE STATE LEGISLATURE TO GOVERN SOME OF THE FUNCTIONING OF OUR LOCAL

GOVERNMENTS. WE CERTAINLY ATTEMPT TO BALANCE THAT WITH HOME RULE. I

DON'T KNOW OF ANY OBJECTION FILED OR SENT TO US FROM ANYONE WITHIN THE

CITY COUNCIL, OR CERTAINLY THERE WAS NO OFFICIAL TAKE AND MAYBE THERE'S

AN INDIVIDUAL OR SO. SO I THINK THE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE BECAUSE WE

THINK THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO FIX THIS IS BY STATE STATUTE INSTEAD OF

THAT METHOD YOU MENTIONED.

MR. GOODELL: WITH THAT IN MIND, HAVE WE BEEN

REQUESTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL TO DO THIS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DON'T KNOW OF A FORMAL

RESOLUTION, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS IS AN INFORMAL REQUEST FROM

THE CITY COUNCIL, OBVIOUSLY, I THINK THE COMPTROLLER AND THE CITY AND

OTHERS. AND I DON'T KNOW OF ANY FORMAL OR INFORMAL OPPOSITION, TO BE

HONEST WITH YOU, MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, THIS

DOESN'T TRIGGER ANY OF THE PROHIBITIONS ON A PRIVATE BILL THAT ARE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

CONTAINED IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION? AS YOU KNOW, THIS ONLY, AS A

PRACTICAL MATTER, RELATES TO JUST ONE INDIVIDUAL. BUT AS FAR AS YOU KNOW,

NO CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS THAT -- AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S A COUPLE OF

DIFFERENT SECTIONS DEALING WITH PRIVATE BILLS. ARE WE -- ARE WE WITHIN

ALL THOSE EXCEPTIONS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YEAH, WE DON'T KNOW OF ANY

CONSTITUTIONAL BARMENT -- BAR OF THIS, WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, AND I

THINK WE'VE DONE IT IN THE PAST. I JUST WANT TO CORRECT MY -- MY LAST

ANSWER TO YOU, MR. GOODELL. I WOULD SAY -- I SAID CITY COUNCIL.

MAYBE CITY HALL IS THE BETTER WAY TO SAY WHERE WE RECEIVED

COMMUNICATION FROM. I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ON THE RECORD. BUT WE

DON'T -- WE DON'T BELIEVE THIS IS CONSTITUTIONALLY BARRED FOR YOUR CURRENT

QUESTION.

MR. GOODELL: ONE OTHER QUESTION. IF WE PASS

SPECIAL LEGISLATION EVERY TIME WE'RE REQUESTED TO BECAUSE SOMEBODY

MISSES THE REQUIREMENTS OF SECTION 30 OF THE PUBLIC OFFICER'S LAW,

WOULDN'T IT BE SIMPLY BETTER TO AMEND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW SECTION

30, PERHAPS SAY THAT YOUR AUTHORITY IS SUSPENDED UNTIL YOU FILE OR PUT A

STATUTORY NOTICE, FOR EXAMPLE, BECAUSE THERE'S NONE IN THERE CURRENTLY?

I MEAN, IF -- IF -- IF EVERY TIME SOMEBODY MISSES A DEADLINE WE PASS A

SPECIAL LAW, WHY HAVE A DEADLINE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THAT'S A FAIR POINT, MR. GOODELL,

AND MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD TAKE UP IN THE FUTURE. OBVIOUSLY

WE WANT TO FIX THIS PROBLEM NOW. BUT IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING I THINK

IS FAIR TO SAY WE SHOULD CONSIDER IN THE FUTURE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. ZEBROWSKI.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANKS, MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: MR. SPEAKER?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE THAT WE

MIGHT WANT TO REVISIT SECTION 30 OF THE PUBLIC OFFICER'S LAW, BECAUSE

IF EVERY TIME SOMEONE MISSES A STATUTORY REQUIREMENT WE SIMPLY WAIVE

IT, MAYBE WE OUGHT TO LOOK BACK AT THAT STATUTORY REQUIREMENT AND

MAYBE ADD A NOTICE PROVISION OR SAY YOU'RE SUSPENDED UNTIL YOU DO FILE

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, WHICH IS A MUCH BETTER AND FAIRER APPROACH TO

ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE. I AM SYMPATHETIC TO THE COMPTROLLER BECAUSE,

YOU KNOW, IN THE EXCITEMENT OF BEING ELECTED AND ALL THE CHALLENGES OF

SETTING UP A NEW OFFICE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, IT'S EASY TO MISS A

TECHNICALITY. AND THIS IS -- IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S REALLY QUITE A TECHNICALITY

BECAUSE APPARENTLY HE ACTUALLY HAD THE BOND, HE JUST DIDN'T FILE IT. SO I

WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS. BUT I DO THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE BROADER

ISSUE OF WHETHER IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR US EVERY TIME SOMEONE FORGETS TO

SIMPLY OVERRIDE IT BY A SPECIAL LAW THAT DEALS IN EFFECT WITH ONE PERSON,

THEREBY PREEMPTING ALL THE EXISTING PROVISIONS FOR THE FILLING OF A

VACANCY, WHETHER IT'S BY THE TOWN BOARD OR BY THE CITY COUNCIL IN THIS

CASE, AND COMING UP WITH AN AD HOC SOLUTION EACH TIME.

BUT I WILL BE SUPPORTING IT AND RECOMMEND IT TO MY

COLLEAGUES. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9607. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE RECORD MY

COLLEAGUE MR. DIPIETRO IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 11, CALENDAR NO. 58, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00950-C, CALENDAR

NO. 58, PHEFFER AMATO, JONES, COOK, WALLACE, BENEDETTO, GRIFFIN,

FERNANDEZ, ZINERMAN, CRUZ. AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN

RELATION TO HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE DEDUCTIBLES TRIGGERS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THIS BILL WOULD

REQUIRE THE SUPERINTENDENT OF INSURANCE, BY REGULATION, TO ESTABLISH

UNIFORM HURRICANE WIND DEDUCTIBLES AND OTHER UNIFORM STANDARDS AS IT

RELATES TO DEDUCTIBLES. THE ISSUE AROSE FOLLOWING SUPERSTORM SANDY

WHEN DIFFERENT HOMEOWNERS ON LONG ISLAND HAD DIFFERENT TRIGGERING

EVENTS. THAT IS, DIFFERENT WEATHER DEFINITIONS THAT WOULD TRIGGER THEIR

INSURANCE AND DIFFERENT DEDUCTIBLES. AND SO THIS BILL PURPORTS TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

CORRECT THAT SITUATION BY HAVING UNIFORM DEDUCTIBLE AND UNIFORM

TRIGGERING EVENTS. THE CONCERN IS THAT THIS LEGISLATION FORGETS WHY

WE'RE HERE IN THIS SITUATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO, IN 1992 FOLLOWING

HURRICANE ANDREW, THE INSURANCE DEPARTMENT STEPPED FORWARD AND

AUTHORIZED INSURERS TO PROVIDE MORE OPTIONS AND MORE FLEXIBILITY TO

CONSUMERS BECAUSE FOLLOWING HURRICANE ANDREW THERE WAS A SERIOUS

CONCERN THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH INSURANCE POLICIES AVAILABLE.

AND SO ADDRESSING THAT ISSUE, THE INSURANCE DEPARTMENT REJECTED A

ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL APPROACH FOR WINDSTORM AND HURRICANE DEDUCTIBLES,

AND IT APPROVED A VARIETY OF WINDSTORMS, TRIGGERING EVENTS AND

DEDUCTIBLES SO THAT CONSUMERS COULD HAVE A CHOICE AND OPTIONS AND TO

INCREASE THE INSURANCE MARKET. AND, IN FACT, THAT CHANGE HAD THE

DESIRED EFFECT. THE INSURANCE MARKET DRAMATICALLY IMPROVED ON LONG

ISLAND AND THROUGHOUT THE STATE. SO THIS LEGISLATION TAKES US BACK 30

YEARS, LITERALLY 30 YEARS, TO WHERE WE WERE IN 1992. AND WHAT IT DOES

IS IT ELIMINATES THE ABILITY OF CONSUMERS TO SELECT THE TYPE OF INSURANCE

THEY WANT, WHAT LEVEL OF DEDUCTIBLE, WHAT LEVEL OF COVERAGE AND WHEN

IT KICKS IN. AND OF COURSE THE NET EFFECT WHEN YOU ELIMINATE ALL

CONSUMER CHOICE AS IT APPLIES IN EVERY SITUATION IS THAT CONSUMER

OPTIONS WHEN THEY GO DOWN, THEIR PRICES GO UP. THEY CAN NO LONGER

SELECT A LESS EXPENSIVE POLICY THAT MIGHT HAVE A HIGHER DEDUCTIBLE.

THE SECOND PROBLEM IS THAT THERE'S SOME INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT WILL

BACK OUT OF THE MARKET BECAUSE THEIR POLICY UNDERWRITING STANDARDS ARE

BASED ON THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF RISK. AND WE'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN OVER

TIME.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

SO, FOR THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO SUPPORT THE PRIVATE

SECTOR, WHO WANT TO SUPPORT A FREE COMPETITIVE ECONOMY, WHO THINK

THAT CONSUMERS OUGHT TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO SELECT THE POLICY THAT BEST

MEETS THEIR NEEDS, THAT OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO SELECT A POLICY THAT MIGHT

HAVE A HIGHER DEDUCTIBLE AND A LOWER PREMIUM, WHO SUPPORT CONSUMER

CHOICE, THIS BILL IS THE ANTITHESIS OF CONSUMER CHOICE AND INSTEAD

ASSUMES THAT THOSE OF US IN THE LEGISLATURE VOTING ON THIS BILL KNOW

MORE ABOUT WHAT CONSUMERS OUGHT TO HAVE THAN THE THOUSANDS OF

CONSUMERS WHO UNDERSTAND THEIR OWN FINANCIAL SITUATION AND THEIR OWN

NEEDS BETTER THAN ANY OF US, WE'RE ASSUMING THAT WE IN THE LEGISLATURE

KNOW MORE THAN THEY DO, AND THIS BILL ELIMINATES CONSUMER CHOICE AND

DRIVES UP THE COST OF INSURANCE.

AND FOR THAT REASON I WILL BE OPPOSING IT AND

RECOMMEND MY COLLEAGUES OPPOSE IT AS WELL. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 950-C. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. CAHILL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. CAHILL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THANK YOU,

MR. SPEAKER. I JUST STAND FIRST TO CONGRATULATE THE SPONSOR ON THIS VERY

IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION, ONE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN

CONSIDERING FOR A VERY GOOD LONG TIME IN THE INSURANCE WORLD, AND THAT

IS TO ELIMINATE THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE AFTER THE ELEMENT OF DISASTER HAS

STRUCK YOUR HOME. A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT THE BIGGEST SURPRISE

PEOPLE FACED AFTER A DISASTER WAS COMING HOME AND FINDING OUT THAT THE

ROOF WAS BLOWN OFF THEIR HOUSE. BUT THE BIGGEST SURPRISE WAS WHEN

THEY CALLED THEIR INSURANCE AGENT TO FIND OUT THAT THEIR COVERAGE THAT

THEY THOUGHT WAS IDENTICAL TO THEIR NEIGHBOR'S WAS VASTLY DIFFERENT.

NOW, THIS ISN'T A QUESTION OF CONSUMER CHOICE, THIS IS A QUESTION OF THE

INTRICACIES OF AN INSURANCE POLICY THAT PEOPLE MAY OR MAY NOT READ.

AND IF THEY -- IF THEY DO READ IT, GOD BLESS THEM IF THEY UNDERSTAND IT,

BECAUSE HALF THE TIMES THEY CAN'T. WHAT THIS SAYS -- IT DOESN'T SUBSTITUTE

THE JUDGMENT OF THE LEGISLATURE, IT SAYS LET'S MAKE THINGS STANDARD.

LET'S MAKE SURE THAT IF I BUY WIND COVERAGE WITH A DEDUCTIBLE, I GET

WIND COVERAGE WITH A DEDUCTIBLE. IF I BUY HURRICANE COVERAGE, I GET

HURRICANE COVERAGE, AND IT'S NOT UP TO SOME ACTUARY IN KANSAS CITY TO

DEFINE WHAT A HURRICANE IS IN NEW YORK, LONG ISLAND OR ALONG THE

COASTAL PARTS OF NEW YORK STATE WHERE WE'VE SEEN DIFFERENT INSURANCE

COMPANIES DEFINE IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT CONSUMER

PROTECTION. THIS IS ONE THAT IS NECESSARY TO MAKE SURE THAT CONSUMERS

GET WHAT THEY PAY FOR.

I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST, CONGRATULATE THE SPONSOR ONE

MORE TIME AND VOTE VERY MUCH IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. CAHILL IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MRS. PHEFFER AMATO. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN --

MS. PHEFFER AMATO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ONE MINUTE -- ONE

MINUTE, MS. --

MS. PHEFFER AMATO: SURE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE -- WE'VE GOT AN

AWFUL LOT OF CONVERSATION. I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE ALL HAPPY TO BE

TOGETHER AGAIN, BUT YOU DON'T NEED TO TALK TO EACH OTHER WHILE WE'RE ON

DEBATE. THANK YOU.

MS. PHEFFER AMATO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

SUPERSTORM SANDY RAVAGED SOUTH QUEENS, SPECIFICALLY, BROAD CHANNEL

AND ROCKAWAY WHERE I WAS BORN AND RAISED. HOMES, LOCAL BUSINESSES,

LIVELIHOODS AND SCHOOLS WERE COMPLETELY DESTROYED. WE SAW PART OF

OUR HOMES, BOARDWALK AND CARS FLOATING IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR STREETS.

OUR COMMUNITY WAS WIPED OUT COMPLETELY, AND NOW NEARLY TEN YEARS

LATER PEOPLE ARE STILL TRYING TO GET THEIR LIVES BACK TOGETHER OR

OVERCOMING CONTINUOUS COMPLICATIONS. THIS BILL SEEKS TO ENSURE BASIC

FAIRNESS. AFTER THE STORM, NEIGHBORS CAME TO FIND OUT THEY WERE BEING

TREATED DIFFERENTLY FROM THEIR -- FROM THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES; ONE

FAMILY BEING TOLD THAT A WINDSTORM HAD OCCURRED AND THEIR DEDUCTIBLE

APPLIED, WHILE THE OTHER WAS TOLD THAT THERE WAS NO WINDSTORM. AFTER

THE STORM THAT WRECKED [SIC] HAVOC ON MANY OF OUR LIVES, PEOPLE WERE

BEING TREATED UNFAIRLY AND HORRIBLY BY THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES EVEN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THOUGH THEY DID NOTHING WRONG. THIS BILL CREATES UNDERSTANDABLE AND

FAIR STANDARDS THAT WILL ENSURE THAT CATASTROPHIC WINDSTORM DEDUCTIBLES

ARE REASONABLE AND ACTUARIALLY APPROPRIATE AND APPLIED IN PROPER

CIRCUMSTANCES. OUR MESSAGE IN THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY IS

CLEAR: WE MUST PROTECT OUR CONSUMERS AND THE STATE FROM NATURAL

DISASTERS, AND FROM COMPANIES IN WHICH THEY ENTRUST THEIR FINANCIAL

SECURITY.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PHEFFER AMATO

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE RECORD MY

COLLEAGUE MR. DIPIETRO IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED. THANK

YOU.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 13, CALENDAR NO. 82, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01693, CALENDAR NO.

82, PRETLOW, WALLACE, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE BANKING LAW, IN

RELATION TO MAIL-LOAN CHECKS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: AN EXPLANATION?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PRETLOW, AN

EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED, SIR.

MR. PRETLOW: ABSOLUTELY, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL

AMENDS THE BANKING LAW TO FORBID BANKING INSTITUTIONS FROM SENDING

UNSOLICITED LOAN CHECKS TO UNAWARE INDIVIDUALS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

MR. PRETLOW: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PRETLOW, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MR. PRETLOW: YES, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PRETLOW YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. PRETLOW. AM I

CORRECT THIS WOULD ONLY APPLY TO NEW YORK CHARTERED BANKS?

MR. PRETLOW: PARDON?

MR. GOODELL: THIS LEGISLATION WOULD ONLY APPLY

TO NEW YORK CHARTERED BANKS, CORRECT?

MR. PRETLOW: YES. BUT I DON'T HAVE AUTHORITY --

OR WE DON'T HAVE AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE THE -- THE ACTIONS OF OUT-OF-STATE

BANKING INSTITUTIONS.

MR. GOODELL: SO ALL THE -- THE BIG PLAYERS, YOU

KNOW, M&T, HSBC, BANK OF AMERICA, ALL OF THOSE WOULD NOT BE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

AFFECT -- NONE OF THOSE WOULD BE AFFECTED BY THIS?

MR. PRETLOW: IF THEY'RE NOT CHARTERED IN NEW

YORK WE DON'T HAVE AUTHORITY OVER THEM.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND OTHER THAN THE

NATIONALLY-CHARTERED BANKS OR OUT-OF-SIGHT -- OUT-OF-STATE BANKING

ENTITIES, DO ANY STATE-CHARTERED BANKS CURRENTLY DO THIS?

MR. PRETLOW: I AM NOT SURE. I'D HAVE TO GET BACK

TO YOU ON THAT.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. NOW, OF COURSE WE HAVE THE

FEDERAL CONSUMER CREDIT PROTECTION ACT THAT APPLIES TO ALL BANKS --

MR. PRETLOW: RIGHT.

MR. GOODELL: -- ALL OVER THE STATE AND FEDERALLY-

CHARTERED, AND THAT REQUIRES DETAILED DISCLOSURE ON ANY LOAN

APPLICATION, CORRECT?

MR. PRETLOW: YES.

MR. GOODELL: AND IS IT -- AND I WOULD ASSUME,

THEN, THAT EVEN THOUGH A CHECK MIGHT BE SENT OUT IT WOULD BE

ACCOMPANIED BY EVERYTHING THAT'S REQUIRED UNDER THE FEDERAL

CONSUMER CREDIT PROTECTION ACT?

MR. PRETLOW: YES, THESE UNSOLICITED CHECKS DO

HAVE DISCLOSURE ON THEM. UNFORTUNATELY, THEY'RE ONLY WRITTEN IN POINT

ONE FONT AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO READ BY MANY INDIVIDUALS, ESPECIALLY OUR

SENIOR CITIZENS.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, ACTUALLY THE -- THE CONSUMER

CREDIT PROTECTION ACT ACTUALLY COVERS FONT SIZE AND DISCLOSURE, RIGHT?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. PRETLOW: WELL, THE CHECKS THAT I'VE SEEN -- I

USED TO HAVE COPIES OF THEM. I NO LONGER HAVE THEM SINCE WE CAN'T DO

DEMONSTRATIONS ON THE FLOOR ANYWAY. BUT THEY ARE DIFFICULT TO READ.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND WE ALSO HAVE THE NEW

YORK STATE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW SECTION 349 DEALING WITH DECEPTIVE

ACTION PRACTICES --

MR. PRETLOW: YES.

MR. GOODELL: -- AND THAT APPLIES TO BOTH STATE-

AND FEDERALLY-CHARTERED BANKS, CORRECT?

MR. PRETLOW: YES.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. I -- I HAVE NO OTHER

QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, MR. PRETLOW --

MR. PRETLOW: THANK YOU, MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: -- I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: SO THERE'S TWO CONCERNS THAT WE

HAVE WITH THIS LEGISLATION. THE FIRST IS WHETHER WE NEED IT. WE HAVE

BOTH FEDERAL AND STATE LEGISLATION THAT ALREADY IS IN EXISTENCE THAT

PROHIBITS DECEPTIVE ACTION PRACTICES, PROVIDES SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGES IF

THERE ARE DECEPTIVE ACTION PRACTICES, REQUIRE FULL DISCLOSURE. SO THOSE

PROVISIONS ARE ALREADY IN PLACE. IN ADDITION, AS -- AS MY COLLEAGUE

MENTIONED, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY STATE-CHARTERED BANK THAT ACTUALLY

DOES THIS. BUT THE MOST FRUSTRATING ASPECT OF THIS LEGISLATION FOR MANY

OF US IS THAT THIS LEGISLATION ONLY APPLIES TO OUR OWN STATE-CHARTERED

BANKS AND ALL THE BIG PLAYERS WOULD NOT BE SUBJECT TO IT. AND EVERY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

TIME WE ADD MORE AND MORE REQUIREMENTS THAT JUST APPLY TO THE

COMMUNITY BANKS AND THE SMALL LOCAL BANKS, IT MAKES IT MORE AND

MORE DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO SURVIVE. AND I THINK THOSE WERE THE REASONS

WHY THERE WERE -- A MAJORITY OF MY COLLEAGUES VOTED NO THE LAST TIME

THIS CAME UP AND -- AND I'LL RECOMMEND AGAINST IT AS WELL.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 4894. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER WHO

WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THEIR CONFERENCE POSITION IS

REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION, BUT THOSE WHO

SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR OR BY CALLING THE MINORITY

LEADER'S OFFICE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY COLLEAGUES ARE GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE THOSE WHO WOULD

LIKE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY

LEADER'S OFFICE AND THEIR VOTE WILL BE PROPERLY RECORDED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 17, CALENDAR NO. 127, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03491-B, CALENDAR

NO. 127, GALEF, ABINANTI, MAGNARELLI, SEAWRIGHT, J. RIVERA, HYNDMAN,

WILLIAMS, COOK, STIRPE, WALLACE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY

TAX LAW AND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE TAXATION OF

PROPERTY OWNED BY A COOPERATIVE CORPORATION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 3491-B. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, TO EXPLAIN THIS BILL AND

MY VOTE. UNDER CURRENT LAW A CO-OP OR A CONDO IS ASSESSED ON THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

VALUE OF THE ENTIRE BUILDING. NOT ON THE INDIVIDUAL CONDOS OR CO-OPS,

BUT ON THE ENTIRE BUILDING. AND -- AND WHAT MANY MUNICIPALITIES HAVE

DISCOVERED OVER TIME IS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL CO-OPS OR CONDOS OFTEN SELL

FOR MUCH MORE THAN YOU WOULD EXPECT TO IF YOU WERE JUST TO TAKE THE

BUILDING AND DIVIDE IT BY THE NUMBER OF UNITS. AND SO AS A RESULT YOU'LL

HAVE A CONDO THAT SELLS FOR A QUARTER-MILLION, BUT BECAUSE IT'S ONE-TENTH

OF A -- OF A $500,000 BUILDING, FOR EXAMPLE -- AND THIS WOULDN'T BE

ACCURATE -- BUT IT'S ASSESSED FOR A FRACTION OF WHAT IT ACTUALLY SOLD FOR.

SO THIS BILL GIVES THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES THE AUTHORITY, AT THEIR OPTION,

TO EITHER ASSESS THE BUILDING AS A WHOLE OR LOOK AT THE SALE PRICES OF

INDIVIDUAL UNITS AND ASSESS THE BUILDING BASED ON THE SALE PRICE OF THE

INDIVIDUAL UNITS. NOT SURPRISINGLY, THE NEW YORK -- NYCOM, NEW

YORK COUNCIL OF MAYORS, LOVES THIS OPTION BECAUSE IT DRAMATICALLY

INCREASES THEIR TAX BASE. AND NOT SURPRISINGLY, THE NEW YORK STATE

BUILDER -- BUILDERS ASSOCIATION HATES THIS OPTION BECAUSE IT INCREASES

THE TAX BASE AND THE TAX LIABILITY. I WILL BE SUPPORTING IT BECAUSE IT'S A

LOCAL OPTION AND I RESPECT LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS IN MAKING THAT

TYPE OF TOP DECISION ON WHAT IS THE MOST FAIR AND EQUITABLE WAY TO

ASSESS PROPERTY.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MRS. GALEF.

MRS. GALEF: THANK YOU, MR. GOODELL, FOR

EXPLAINING THE BILL. YOU DID A WONDERFUL JOB. I'D JUST LIKE TO ADD TO IT

THAT IT DOESN'T AFFECT NASSAU COUNTY AND IT DOESN'T AFFECT NEW YORK

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

CITY. AND IT DOES NOT AFFECT ANYTHING THAT'S BUILT TODAY. THERE'S NO

CONDO, THERE'S NO CO-OP THAT'S BUILT TODAY. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE FUTURE.

AND PEOPLE HAVE NOT EVEN GOTTEN APPROVALS TO DO DEVELOPMENT. SO

WE'RE NOT IMPACTING ANYBODY THAT'S THERE TODAY. AND AGAIN, IT'S LOCAL

OPTION THAT WE'RE GIVING TO OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 22, CALENDAR NO. 177, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05532-A, CALENDAR

NO. 177, ENGLEBRIGHT, GUNTHER, JOYNER, DAVILA, SAYEGH, JEAN-PIERRE,

BRABENEC. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW,

IN RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR TAXPAYER GIFTS FOR DIABETES RESEARCH AND

EDUCATION AND ESTABLISHING THE DIABETES RESEARCH AND EDUCATION

FUND.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 5532-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

COULD RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MR. STECK IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED. THANK

YOU.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

CALENDAR NO. 264, PAGE 31, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07661, CALENDAR NO.

264, HEVESI, THIELE, DAVILA, KELLES, LUPARDO, ENGLEBRIGHT, SIMON,

MAGNARELLI, DINOWITZ, SEAWRIGHT, GOTTFRIED, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS, FORREST,

BYRNES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO

PROVIDING THAT PUBLIC WELFARE OFFICIALS SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED TO LIMIT

AUTHORIZED CHILDCARE SERVICES STRICTLY BASED ON THE WORK, TRAINING OR

EDUCATIONAL SCHEDULE OF THE PARENTS, AND MAKING TECHNICAL CHANGES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED, MR. HEVESI.

MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. GOOD

AFTERNOON, MY COLLEAGUES. THIS BILL WILL CLARIFY THAT SOCIAL SERVICES

DISTRICTS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO LIMIT CHILDCARE ASSISTANCE TO FAMILIES BASED

ON THE WORK, TRAINING OR EDUCATION SCHEDULE OF THE PARENTS OR THE

NUMBER OF HOURS FOR WORK, TRAINING AND EDUCATION, THE ACTIVITIES THAT

THOSE PARENTS UNDERTAKE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. HEVESI, WILL YOU

YIELD, SIR?

MR. HEVESI: IT WOULD BE MY PLEASURE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU SO MUCH. WOULD YOU JUST

EXPLAIN HOW -- HOW THE SYSTEM CURRENTLY WORKS AND THEN WE'LL TALK A

LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THIS BILL DOES TO CHANGE IT?

MR. HEVESI: SURE. SO, THE REASON FOR THIS BILL IS WE

WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT NEW YORK STATE FOLLOWS THE BRAIN AND TRAUMA

SCIENCE, WHICH IS VERY SIMPLE. FOR KIDS TO HELP THEM SURVIVE IN A VERY

DIFFICULT ENVIRONMENT, THEY NEED, THE SCIENCE TELLS US, A CARING ADULT

THAT PROVIDES TWO THINGS: ONE IS EMOTIONAL SUPPORT FOR KIDS.

REMEMBER, WE'RE IN A PANDEMIC. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TIMES FOR KIDS THESE

DAYS. EMOTIONAL SUPPORT, BASICALLY TELLING THE KIDS, YOU CAN GET

THROUGH THIS TOUGH TIME. AND THE OTHER THING IS TO HELP THE KID

PROBLEM SOLVE AND THEN LEARN TO PROBLEM SOLVE. SO WHAT WE'VE

IDENTIFIED IS THERE IS A PROBLEM THAT CHILDREN OF PARENTS WHO HAVE

FLEXIBLE SCHEDULES WHO WORK ON THE WEEKENDS, WHO WORK PART-TIME,

SOME LOCAL SOCIAL SERVICES DISTRICTS HAVE BEEN UNDER THE IMPRESSION

THAT THOSE KIDS ARE NOT ALLOWED FULL-TIME CARE. SO THIS BILL IS DESIGNED

TO TELL THE LOCAL SOCIAL SERVICES DISTRICTS, NO, EVEN KIDS WHO HAVE

PARENTS WHO ARE WORKING PART-TIME OR ON THE WEEKENDS, THOSE KIDS ARE

ENTITLED TO FULL-TIME CARE LIKE ALL THE OTHER KIDS.

MS. WALSH: SO IN OTHER WORDS, IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THIS BILL REMOVES ANY REQUIREMENT THAT THE PARENT BE ENROLLED IN SCHOOL,

IN PARTICULAR, FULL-TIME OR PART-TIME STUDY? IT REMOVES THE REQUIREMENT

THAT THE PARENT WORK A CERTAIN NUMBER OF HOURS IN ORDER -- IN ORDER TO --

TO HAVE A CHILDCARE PAID FOR FOR THOSE FAMILIES; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. HEVESI: YES. THAT IS CORRECT.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. AND I ALSO NOTICED THAT IN THE

BILL IT CHANGES FROM THE DEPARTMENT, WHICH I ASSUME IS THE

DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES, THEIR DECISION AND IT CHANGES IT TO

OFFICE OF CHILDREN AND FAMILY SERVICES.

MR. HEVESI: YEAH.

MS. WALSH: WHY -- WHY IS THAT CHANGED? IF THIS --

I LOOKED AT THE BILL MEMO AND THE BILL MEMO SAID THAT WHAT THE BILL WAS

TRYING TO DO WAS TO GIVE -- MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THE -- CLARIFY THAT A SOCIAL

SERVICES DISTRICT IS NOT REQUIRED TO AUTHORIZE -- TO LIMIT AUTHORIZED

CHILDCARE SERVICES, BUT THEN IT BASICALLY IN THE BILL TAKES THE

DEPARTMENT OUT OF IT AND SAYS THAT OCFS IS GOING TO PROMULGATE

REGULATIONS. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

MR. HEVESI: YEAH, IT'S BECAUSE THE REGULATIONS WILL

BE COMING FROM OCFS, NOT THE LOCAL SSD. THIS IS A TECHNICAL CHANGE.

IT WAS SORT OF AN ADD-ON TO THE BILL. I DON'T THINK IT'S SUBSTANTIVE.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHY -- IF -- IF

WE'RE TRYING TO GIVE GUIDANCE TO THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES

WHY WOULD TAKE THEM OUT OF IT AND PUT OCFS IN.

MR. HEVESI: YOU -- YOU'RE RIGHT THAT WE PUT IT IN --

BOTH ISSUES INTO THE SAME BILL AND IT COULD BE CONFUSING. BUT I WILL TELL

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

YOU, THE FIRST ISSUE STANDS ALONE THAT WE DISCUSSED A SECOND AGO AND

THIS WAS A TECHNICAL CORRECTION THAT WE PUT IN AS WELL. THEY ARE, I DON'T

THINK, IN CONFLICT AT ALL. AND -- AND IT'S A TECHNICAL CORRECTION TO MAKE

SURE THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT THE REGULATIONS TO BE FOLLOWED

COME FROM OCFS.

MS. WALSH: NOW CURRENTLY, UNDER EXISTING LAW

THERE ARE INCOME STANDARDS THAT ARE APPLIED IN DETERMINING A FAMILY

WITH A CERTAIN NUMBER OF CHILDREN MAKING X INCOME OR BELOW WOULD

QUALIFY FOR -- FOR FREE CHILDCARE SERVICES.

MR. HEVESI: SUBSIDIZED.

MS. WALSH: SUBSIDIZED CHILDCARE SERVICES. SO

DOES THIS BILL CHANGE THOSE INCOME LEVELS?

MR. HEVESI: IT DOES NOT.

MS. WALSH: BUT ISN'T THERE ALSO -- DON'T YOU HAVE

ANOTHER BILL THAT WE HAVE NOT TAKEN UP YET THAT BASICALLY DOUBLES THE

AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT A FAMILY OF A CERTAIN SIZE CAN MAKE AND STILL GET

SUBSIDIZED CHILDCARE?

MR. HEVESI: SO, LET ME ANSWER IT THIS WAY. YES, I

PROBABLY HAVE A BILL THAT DOES THAT, BUT THAT BILL IS NOT ACTIONABLE NOT

ONLY TODAY BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE MOVING ON IT. I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO

SEE A LOT OF ACTIVITY IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS WHEN THIS BUDGET IS DONE

WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO INFUSE AS RESPONSIBLY AS POSSIBLE STATE AND

FEDERAL MONEY INTO THE FAMILIES THAT NEED IT THE MOST. SO YEAH, THE

OTHER BILL THAT YOU WERE REFERENCING TO, I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO

COME UP. BUT IN THE BUDGET WE'RE LOOKING TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES AND

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THEY'RE ONGOING NEGOTIATIONS.

MS. WALSH: SO I'M JUST CURIOUS. YOU TALKED A

LITTLE BIT AT THE BEGINNING ABOUT BRAIN SCIENCE AND CHILDHOOD

DEVELOPMENT AND ALL THOSE ISSUES.

MR. HEVESI: YES.

MS. WALSH: IS THAT WHY WE WOULD BE ASKED AS

TAXPAYERS TO SUBSIDIZE CHILDCARE FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOT WORKING,

WHO ARE NOT IN SCHOOL BUT WHO HAVE CHILDREN? IS IT -- IS IT --

MR. HEVESI: YES.

MS. WALSH: -- JUST SIMPLY BECAUSE THOSE KIDS NEED

CHILDCARE AND THERE -- THERE ISN'T A PARENT TO PROVIDE THAT CHILDCARE?

MR. HEVESI: NO. SO HERE'S HOW I WOULD -- I WOULD

FRAME THAT. SO EVERYTHING IN THE CHILDREN AND FAMILIES COMMITTEE

THAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO DO AND WITH CHILDCARE IS PREVENTION. WE'RE

TRYING TO PREVENT SOCIETAL PROBLEMS. SO I BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF THE

THINGS THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT -- CRIME, HOMELESSNESS, PEOPLE ON

PUBLIC ASSISTANCE IN PERPETUITY -- ALL ARE, TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, A FUNCTION

OF CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED, SOME OF THEM VERY YOUNG, AND

WE HAVEN'T PREVENTED THE TRAUMA. AND THEN IF WE HAVEN'T GIVEN CARE

WE HAVEN'T PUT THEM IN A PLACE TO -- TO BECOME RESILIENT KIDS BECAUSE

THEY NEED, AS SCIENCE TELLS US, THE STABLE CAREGIVER. SO I WILL ARGUE THAT

ALLOWING THESE KIDS -- WHO BY THE WAY, THEY'RE LIKE ANY OTHER KIDS, THE

ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THEIR PARENTS WORK PART-TIME OR A FLEXIBLE SCHEDULE.

SO THOSE KIDS GET THE SAME CARE AS ANY OTHER KIDS BECAUSE WE REALIZE

THAT IF WE DON'T AND WE ALLOW TRAUMATIZED KIDS TO REMAIN TRAUMATIZED

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THROUGHOUT THEIR LIVES, THEN THE CHANCES ARE EXPONENTIALLY MORE FOR

EVERY TAXPAYER. YOU'RE GOING TO BE PAYING FOR HOMELESS SHELTERS,

PRISONS AND ALL OF THE OTHER COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH OUT-OF-CONTROL

SOCIETAL FAULTS. SO EVERY DOLLAR SPENT ON CHILDCARE, ON PRE-K, ON

KINSHIP, ON EVERYTHING WE'RE GOING FOR IS PREVENTING CRISES TO SAVE

TAXPAYERS MONEY. IT IS A SHORT OUTLAY IN THE -- IN THE SHORT-TERM, AND

THE LONG-TERM COST SAVINGS WILL BE MUCH BIGGER.

MS. WALSH: I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE OF

COST BECAUSE IF WE ARE GOING TO BE EXPANDING THIS PROGRAM TO

ENCOMPASS FAMILIES THAT ARE UNEMPLOYED AND ARE NOT IN A FIELD OF STUDY

OR NOT IN SCHOOL, THAT'S AN EXPANSION OF THE EXISTING PROGRAM. HOW --

HOW MUCH MORE IS THIS GOING TO COST?

MR. HEVESI: THAT'S DUE -- THAT'S, TO BE HONEST,

ABOVE MY PAY GRADE. THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE HAPPENING WITH OUR LEADERS

AND THEY WILL MAKE THAT DETERMINATION. I HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT

WE'LL SEE WHAT THEY COME UP WITH. BUT I DO KNOW THAT THIS SPECIFIC BILL

IDENTIFIES ONE PROBLEM, WHICH IS THAT KIDS WHO HAVE PARENTS WHO WORK

A FLEXIBLE SCHEDULE ARE JUST NOT ENTITLED TO THE SAME LEVEL OF CARE OF

OTHER KIDS. AND THAT'S NOT FAIR AND THAT'S -- FOR THEM OR THEIR FAMILIES.

AND I ALSO THINK BY LETTING KIDS GO THROUGH WITHOUT APPROPRIATE CARE,

WE HAVE -- AND I SAY THIS WITHOUT ANY ANIMUS TO ANYBODY -- BUT OUR

SYSTEM HAS ALLOWED A CULTURE OF TRAUMA AND GENERATIONAL TRAUMA -- I'M

TALKING SEXUAL ABUSE, PHYSICAL ABUSE, WITNESSING VIOLENCE, DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE -- AND BECAUSE WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH THAT PROBLEM UP FRONT,

IT COSTS US BILLIONS IN THE LONG-TERM. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO UNDER OUR EXISTING SYSTEM,

HOW IS THAT COST SHARING AS BETWEEN THE COUNTIES AND THE STATE ABOUT

WHO PAYS FOR THE PROGRAM AS IT EXISTS RIGHT NOW?

MR. HEVESI: AGAIN -- AND I'M NOT TRYING TO BE

EVASIVE -- THAT'S SUBJECT TO ONGOING NEGOTIATIONS. THIS BILL IS ONLY

TRYING TO CLARIFY THAT THE KIDS WHO HAVE PARENTS WHO WORK FLEXIBLE

SCHEDULES ARE ENTITLED TO THE SAME LEVEL OF CARE AS EVERYBODY ELSE.

MS. WALSH: I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE

NEGOTIATIONS AS FAR AS WHAT THE BUDGET IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE AND OUTLAYS

(INAUDIBLE) MOVING FORWARD. I'M ASKING YOU, LAST WEEK OR LAST MONTH,

YOU KNOW, HOW IS THE COST SHARING AS BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND THE STATE

ON THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM?

MR. HEVESI: I -- I BELIEVE IT WOULD REMAIN

UNCHANGED. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE -- WHAT THE SPLIT IS, TO BE PERFECTLY

HONEST WITH YOU.

MS. WALSH: OKAY.

MR. HEVESI: THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, THOUGH. I

APPRECIATE IT.

MS. WALSH: YEAH. I -- I DID NOT KNOW WHAT THE

RATIO WAS.

MR. HEVESI: I COULD GET -- I COULD GET BACK TO YOU

ON THAT. BUT IT IS UNCHANGED WITH THIS BILL.

MS. WALSH: BUT THE COUNTIES DO BEAR -- OR THE

LOCALITIES DO BEAR A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE COST BECAUSE IT'S RUN

THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES, RIGHT?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. HEVESI: THEY DO. BUT I KNOW -- I'LL GIVE YOU

ONE THING THAT I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T, BUT I'M GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY. IT IS

MY RESPECTFUL HOPE FOR THIS BUDGET THAT THERE WILL BE SIGNIFICANT

MANDATE RELIEF TO COUNTIES. AND THE REASON IS THAT THE LAST DEMOCRATIC

GOVERNOR SQUOZED THE COUNTIES TO WITHIN AN INCH OF THEIR LIFE AND WAS

THE ENEMY OF THE LOCAL TAXPAYER, AND I THINK WE SHOULD GET PAST THAT AS

A GOVERNMENT.

MS. WALSH: ALL RIGHT. WELL, I APPRECIATE YOUR

COMMENTS.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MS.

WALSH.

MS. WALSH: I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THERE ARE CHILDREN

WHO NEED -- AND FAMILIES WHO NEED APPROPRIATE CHILDCARE ASSISTANCE

FOR THEIR FAMILIES. OUR EXISTING SYSTEM BASICALLY SAYS WE WANT TO HELP

OUT FAMILIES THAT ARE MAKING REAL EFFORTS TO PULL THEMSELVES OUT OF

POVERTY, OUT OF BAD SITUATIONS, BY BECOMING MORE EDUCATED TO BE ABLE

TO GET A BETTER JOB TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES AND THEIR CHILDREN, OR TO

ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO WORK AND EARN ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THEIR

FAMILIES. WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT -- IT COMPLETELY ELIMINATES THE NEED

FOR A FAMILY LOOKING FOR CHILDCARE ASSISTANCE TO BE HOLDING DOWN A JOB

AT ALL, TO BE IN ANY KIND OF A FIELD OF STUDY AT ALL, AND I DON'T THINK THAT

THAT'S FAIR. I -- I THINK THAT -- I WANT TO SEE ALL CHILDREN THRIVE, BUT I ALSO

THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO REWARD -- AS A STATE, REWARD THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

BEHAVIOR THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE. AND I THINK THE BEHAVIOR THAT WE

WANT TO SEE ARE FAMILIES THAT ARE DOING EVERYTHING THAT THEY CAN TO

WORK, TO BECOME BETTER EDUCATED, TO GET BETTER JOBS, TO BE ABLE TO GET

OUT OF A BAD SITUATION AND TO BE ABLE TO BETTER SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES. I

THINK THAT THE -- WHAT THIS DOES IS IT REALLY JUST PUTS MORE OF A BURDEN

ON LOCALITIES, ON -- ON OUR LOCAL COUNTIES AND LOCALITIES IN TERMS OF COST.

AND I AM TROUBLED -- I MEAN, I -- I KNOW THAT THE SPONSOR INDICATED

THAT IT WAS JUST A TECHNICALITY TO TAKE THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES

OUT OF THIS BILL AND REPLACE IT WITH OCFS, THE OFFICE OF CHILDREN AND

FAMILY SERVICES, TO ESTABLISH CRITERIA. BUT IF THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE

BILL IS TO EMPOWER THE -- THE LOCAL DSSS TO MAKE DETERMINATIONS ABOUT

WHAT FAMILIES THEY CAN HELP AND REMOVE OBSTACLES TO BE ABLE TO HELP

EVERYBODY THAT THEY THINK MERITS HELP, THEN WHY ARE WE TAKING THEM

OUT OF THE MIX AND JUST PUTTING OCFS AT THE STATE LEVEL IN CHARGE OF

DEVELOPING THE CRITERIA? THAT TROUBLES ME. AND I -- I DON'T FEEL THAT

THAT WAS -- I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE I RECEIVED A SATISFACTORY ANSWER, WITH ALL

DUE RESPECT TO -- TO MY COLLEAGUE -- TO THAT PARTICULAR CONCERN. THINGS

ARE STRUCK AND ADDED TO LEGISLATION FOR A REASON. AND I THINK THAT THE

REASON MAY BE THAT WE WANT THE STATE AND OCFS TO REALLY CALL THE SHOTS

ABOUT GIVING ASSISTANCE FOR CHILDCARE TO ANY FAMILY. AND THEN WE --

WE KNOW -- I KNOW THAT THERE IS -- THERE IS ANOTHER BILL THAT WOULD

BASICALLY DOUBLE UP SO THAT YOU WOULD HAVE A FAMILY THAT WOULD BE

MAKING TWICE AS MUCH AND STILL BE ABLE TO GET CHILDCARE ASSISTANCE

UNDER THESE OTHER PROPOSED LEGISLATION WHICH WE MAY OR MAY NOT BE

TAKING UP.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

SO I WOULD AGREE DEFINITELY WITH THE SPONSOR THAT THIS

IS SOMETHING THAT WE EXPECT TO SEE SOME THINGS IN THE BUDGET ABOUT. I

JUST THINK THAT FUNDAMENTALLY I DON'T LIKE THE DIRECTION THAT THIS

PARTICULAR BILL TAKES. I THINK THAT -- AGAIN, I THINK THAT WE NEED TO TRY TO

DEVELOP LEGISLATION THAT EXPRESSES WHAT OUR PRIORITIES ARE. IF WE'RE

TRYING TO ASSIST FAMILIES TO BETTER THEMSELVES, I THINK THAT THAT'S WHEN

WE WANT TO PUT THE MONEY BEHIND IT AND GIVE THE ASSISTANCE, WHEN

WE'RE SEEING THINGS THAT ARE POSITIVE LIKE WORK AND EDUCATION.

SO FOR THOSE REASONS I WON'T BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THIS

BILL AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE ON IT.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7661. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THEIR CONFERENCE

POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. FOR THE

REASONS ARTICULATED BY MY COLLEAGUE, THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS

GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT ARE

CERTAINLY FREE TO VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR OF THE ASSEMBLY OR NOTIFY THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE THOSE THAT WOULD

DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE WILL PROPERLY RECORD YOUR VOTE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE RECORD MY

COLLEAGUE MR. GALLAHAN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS BILL. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED. THANK

YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I -- I REALLY THINK THAT

THIS IS A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION, AND SO I WANT TO START

WITH THANKING THE SPONSOR OF IT. BUT IF WE DIP INTO THE REAL REASON ON

THIS ONE, THIS IS PROVIDING AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET THE MULTIPLE LEVELS OF

RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE FROM FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AS WELL AS OUR OWN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

GOVERNMENT TO THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT. I THINK IF WE GO OVER A PERIOD

OF TIME AND HAVE MULTIPLE LEVELS OF RESOURCES GOING IN DIFFERENT

DIRECTIONS WITH DIFFERENT LAWS, AT SOME POINT IT BECOMES CUMBERSOME

TO MOVE THE PROCESS ALONG QUICKLY. THAT IMPACTS FAMILIES. THAT

IMPACTS MOTHERS AND FATHERS WHO -- THEY NEED TO GET TO WORK, MAY

NEED TO GET ADDITIONAL TRAINING, MAY NEED TO COMPLETE THEIR EDUCATION

SO THAT THEY CAN EARN ADDITIONAL RESOURCES. AND SO I REALLY DO WANT TO

COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON THIS ONE AND OTHER PIECES OF LEGISLATION LIKE

THIS THAT REALLY FOCUSES ON HOW DO WE PAY ATTENTION TO ENSURING THAT

CHILDCARE DOLLARS GET TO WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. IT'S A HUGE PIECE OF OUR

ECONOMY, HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY TO GROW FURTHER IS MAKING SURE THAT

PARENTS HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET THEIR CHILDREN INTO QUALITY CHILDCARE.

SO AGAIN, I THANK THE SPONSOR AND IT'S A PLEASURE TO

HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SUPPORT THE AGENDA WITH CHILDCARE ISSUES.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF WE CAN

CONTINUE OUR WORK ON OUR DEBATE LIST, WE WANT TO GO TO CALENDAR NO.

28 BY MS. PAULIN, FOLLOWED BY CALENDAR NO. 137 BY MR. ENGLEBRIGHT,

CALENDAR NO. 152 BY MR. ZEBROWSKI, AND CALENDAR NO. 180. THAT ONE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

IS BY MR. ENGLEBRIGHT AS WELL. IN THAT ORDER, MR. SPEAKER.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

CALENDAR NO. 28, PAGE 8, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00381-A, CALENDAR

NO. 28, PAULIN, GRIFFIN, SAYEGH, BRABENEC. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO THE SALE OF NEW MOTOR VEHICLE

CHILD RESTRAINT SYSTEMS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PAULIN, AN

EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.

MS. PAULIN: THANK YOU SO MUCH. THE BILL WILL

HELP PREVENT UNNECESSARY DEATHS BY REQUIRING CHILD RESTRAINT ALARM

DEVICES TO BE SOLD ALONGSIDE CAR SEATS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. PAULIN: I WILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PAULIN YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. PAULIN. OF COURSE

WE ALL KNOW HOW INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT CHILD SEATS ARE, CAR SEATS ARE.

AM I CORRECT THAT THE DATA INDICATES THAT LITERALLY THOUSANDS AND

THOUSANDS OF LIVES ARE SAVED BY HAVING CAR SEATS?

MS. PAULIN: I WOULD THINK THAT, YES, THAT YOUNG

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

CHILDREN, IF THEY WERE JUST AS INFANTS SLEPT IN THE BACK SEAT TO THEIR OWN

DEVICES THEY'D PROBABLY FALL AND INJURE THEMSELVES AND LOSS OF LIFE

WOULD OCCUR.

MR. GOODELL: ACCORDING TO THE NATIONAL SAFETY

COUNCIL, ON AVERAGE ABOUT 38 CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 15 DIE EVERY

YEAR BY HEAT EXHAUSTION, AND IN 2020 I THINK THE NUMBER WAS 24. EACH

OF THOSE, OF COURSE, IS A HORRIFIC TRAGEDY. AND THESE ARE KIDS THAT WERE

LEFT IN A CAR SEAT AND THE PARENTS DIDN'T REALIZE HOW HOT THE CAR WAS

WHEN THEY RAN IN TO GET SOMETHING IN THE STORE OR SOMETHING OF THAT

NATURE; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: YES. OR FORGOT THAT THEY HAD THEM, AS

WHAT HAPPENED IN ROCKLAND COUNTY.

MR. GOODELL: AND OF COURSE THAT IS, YOU KNOW, A

HORRIFIC, HORRIFIC TRAGEDY. NOW, THIS BILL TRIES TO ADDRESS THAT TRAGEDY

BY SAYING THAT A RETAILER CANNOT SELL A CAR SEAT UNLESS THEY ALSO HAVE A --

A HEAT ALARM PRODUCT IN STOCK, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: THEY -- IN STOCK. THEY MUST HAVE IT

ALONGSIDE SO THAT PARENTS ARE AWARE OF THAT WHEN THEY BUY A CAR SEAT.

MR. GOODELL: SO IT'S POSSIBLE, THEN, THAT A PARENT

COULD COME INTO A STORE, WANT TO BUY A CAR SEAT, READY TO BUY A CAR SEAT,

MIGHT NOT EVEN WANT THE ALARM, AND THEY CAN'T BUY A CAR SEAT IF THE

STORE RAN OUT OF STOCK?

MS. PAULIN: IT WOULD BE UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL STORE

TO ENSURE -- YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE THEY WOULD LIKELY NOT WANT TO RUN OUT

OF CAR SEATS IF THEY WERE A PROVIDER OF -- OF CHILDREN'S -- SMALL

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

CHILDREN'S STUFF, RIGHT? THEY SHOULD NOT RUN OUT OF ALARMS FOR THE SAME

REASON. AND FRANKLY, IF THEY WERE SELLING THEM AT THAT LARGE A VOLUME,

THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T WANT TO AS A PROFIT.

MR. GOODELL: BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, IF FOR SOME

REASON THEY'RE OUT OF STOCK, THEN THIS BILL WOULD MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR

THEM TO SELL THE CAR SEAT TO A PARENT WHO WANTED TO PUT IN A CAR SEAT,

CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: I -- I THINK THAT THE GOAL IS TO MAKE

SURE THAT THE ALARMS ARE VISIBLE AND PEOPLE ARE AWARE SO -- SO THAT THEY

KNOW THIS IS SOMETHING THEY SHOULD BE GETTING. PERHAPS IF THEY KNOW

THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY -- THEY HAVE IN THAT CASE, YOU KNOW, OTHER

CHILDREN THAT THEY MIGHT GET DISTRACTED BY AND THEN LEAVE THEIR -- THEIR

BABIES IN THE CAR.

MR. GOODELL: AT THE RISK OF BEING REDUNDANT --

AND I THINK THIS IS A YES OR NO QUESTION --

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. GOODELL: IF THEY RUN OUT OF ALARMS, THEN IT'S

ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO SELL A CAR SEAT TO A PARENT WHO IS DESPERATE TO BUY

ONE, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: WELL, WHEN YOU --

MR. GOODELL: I THINK THAT'S EITHER YES --

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. GOODELL: -- IT'S ILLEGAL OR --

MS. PAULIN: YES. IF THEY'RE LEGAL, YOU KNOW, I

DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A -- YOU KNOW, WE OUTLINE A PENALTY, BUT THE --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

WE DO SAY THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE THESE IN THEIR -- IN THEIR -- NEXT TO THEIR

CHILD RESTRAINT SYSTEMS. YOU KNOW, THAT THEY SHOULD HANG ALONGSIDE A

CHILD RESTRAINT ALARM AND THAT THERE SHOULD BE SIGNAGE. YOU KNOW,

THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WE DO -- WE DO SAY. AND WE

SAY THAT OTHERWISE THEY WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF THE PROVISIONS OF THIS

SECTION, RIGHT, FOR A CIVIL PENALTY. SO IT'S NOT -- YOU KNOW -- YOU KNOW,

IT'S NOT A CRIME. IT'S ESSENTIALLY A -- IT'S A -- IT'S A WAY FOR US TO ENSURE

THAT THESE ALARMS ARE GOING TO BE AVAILABLE AND BE ACCESSIBLE AND MAKE

PARENTS AWARE DURING THE COURSE OF THEIR -- WHEN THEY'RE BUYING THESE

CAR SEATS.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND THIS IS A REQUIREMENT

THAT IT BE PHYSICALLY IN STOCK. IT CAN'T BE MEANT BY HAVING ONLINE

AVAILABILITY; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. PAULIN. I

APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS AND YOUR -- AND YOUR CLARIFICATION.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: I -- I ABSOLUTELY SHARE THE SPONSOR'S

CONCERN ABOUT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF CHILDREN THAT DIE FROM HEATSTROKE

BECAUSE THEY WERE LEFT UNATTENDED IN A CAR BY THEIR PARENTS WITHOUT --

WITHOUT OPENING THE WINDOWS OR LEAVING THE AIR CONDITIONING ON. I

MEAN, IT'S A HORRIFIC, HORRIFIC SITUATION. AND INDEED, IN 2020 THERE WERE

24 CHILDREN WHO DIED BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS LEFT THEM IN A CAR AND THEY

DIED FROM HEATSTROKE WHILE THE PARENT WAS OFF SHOPPING AND LEAVING

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THEIR CHILD UNATTENDED. IT'S A HORRIFIC SITUATION. BUT THE REMEDY, IN MY

OPINION, IS TO IMPOSE SANCTIONS ON THE PARENT OR ENCOURAGE --

ENCOURAGE PARENTS TO BE RESPONSIBLE TOWARD THEIR OWN CHILDREN. WELL,

WHAT DOES THIS BILL DO? THIS BILL SAYS THAT IT'S ILLEGAL FOR A STORE TO SELL

PARENTS CAR SEATS IF THE STORE HAPPENS TO RUN OUT OF THE ALARM. NOW

THINK ABOUT THAT. CAR SEATS SAVE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF LIVES

EVERY YEAR, AND THIS BILL SAYS YOU CAN'T SELL THE PARENT A LIFE-SAVING CAR

SEAT, EVEN THOUGH THE PARENT IS THERE, WANTS TO BUY THE CAR SEAT. YOU

CAN'T SELL THEM A LIFE-SAVING CAR SEAT IF THEY DON'T ALSO HAVE AN ALARM IN

STOCK. AND IF THE STORE SELLS A PARENT WHO'S DESPERATE FOR A CAR SEAT TO

PROTECT THEIR KIDS AND THEY DIDN'T ALSO HAVE THE ALARM, THE STORE CAN BE

FINED $500 FOR SELLING THAT LIFE-SAVING CAR SEAT. AND FROM THE STORE'S

PERSPECTIVE THEY HAVE TO MONITOR IT, DON'T THEY? BECAUSE THE NUMBER

OF PEOPLE THAT COME IN -- THERE MIGHT BE SOME PEOPLE THAT COME IN AND

JUST BUY THE ALARM AND THERE MIGHT BE SOME PEOPLE THAT COME IN AND

JUST BUY THE CAR SEAT. AND SO EVERY TIME A CAR SEAT COMES UP TO THE

CHECKOUT COUNTER, THE STORE SHOULD SEND THE CLERK BACK TO MAKE SURE

THEY STILL HAVE ALARMS IN STOCK. BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE ALARM IN

STOCK BECAUSE THE LAST CUSTOMER BOUGHT THE LAST ALARM, THE STORE COULD

BE FINED $500 FOR SELLING THAT CAR SEAT. I MEAN, THERE'S NO WORDS TO

DESCRIBE THE TRAGEDY THAT OCCURS WHEN 24 KIDS DIE FROM HEATSTROKE.

BUT WE MOST ASSUREDLY WANT TO ENCOURAGE STORES TO SELL LIFE-SAVING CAR

SEATS, AND WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE CAR SEATS HOSTAGE TO THE AVAILABILITY

OF ALARMS.

AND SO WHILE I APPRECIATE THE DESIRE OF THE SPONSOR, I

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THINK THIS APPROACH OF REDUCING THE AVAILABILITY OF CAR SEATS AND

IMPOSING LIABILITY ON STORES $500 IF THEY RUN OUT OF ALARMS IS NOT REALLY

THE BEST APPROACH. FOR THAT REASON I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST IT AND

RECOMMEND THAT MY COLLEAGUES LIKEWISE VOTE AGAINST IT. THANK YOU,

SIR. AND AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MR. MONTESANO.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MS. PAULIN. I JUST

-- I JUST HAVE A QUESTION, TOO, BECAUSE I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED BASED ON THE

DIALOGUE THAT WENT BACK AND FORTH. DOES THIS BILL JUST REQUIRE THE

RETAILERS TO STOCK THE ITEM AND MAKE IT AVAILABLE FOR SOMEONE TO

PURCHASE IT?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. MONTESANO: OKAY. BUT CAN A PERSON, IF

THEY GO IN AND BUY A CAR SEAT, CAN THEY BUY THE CAR SEAT BY ITSELF OR ARE

THEY COMPELLED TO BUY BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER?

MS. PAULIN: YOU KNOW, I READ IT THE WAY YOU'RE

SAYING, THAT THEY COULD JUST BUY -- OH, YEAH. THEY COULD BUY THE CAR

SEAT BY THEMSELVES. ABSOLUTELY.

MR. MONTESANO: OKAY. SO REALLY, THE OBLIGATION

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ON THE RETAILER IS JUST TO MAKE THIS AVAILABLE AS PART OF THEIR INVENTORY IF

PEOPLE WANT TO BUY IT.

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. MONTESANO: OKAY. BECAUSE I WAS JUST

GETTING UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU COULDN'T BUY A CAR SEAT WITHOUT

BUYING THE ALARM.

MS. PAULIN: NO, NO.

MR. MONTESANO: OKAY.

MS. PAULIN: AND I IMAGINE MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT

BUY THE ALARM.

MR. MONTESANO: ALL RIGHT. BUT THERE IS A

SANCTION TO A RETAILER IF THEY FAIL TO, ONE, STOCK THE ITEM --

MS. PAULIN: YEAH.

MR. MONTESANO: -- AND, TWO, PUT THE SIGN UP OF

ITS AVAILABILITY?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. MONTESANO: OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MR. MANKTELOW.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR JUST ONE QUESTION?

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MADAM. JUST ONE

QUESTION. AS WE'VE JUST COME OUT OF COVID AND I KNOW MANY, MANY,

MANY DIFFERENT DISTRIBUTORS ARE NOT ABLE TO PROVIDE (INAUDIBLE) NEEDED

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

TO AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURERS, TO STORES, TO SUPPLY CHAINS. IN A SITUATION

THAT JUST COMING OUT OF COVID AND IF THE STORE CANNOT GET ANY OF THE

EMERGENCY ALARMS, WHAT DO THEY DO IN THAT SITUATION?

MS. PAULIN: I WOULD IMAGINE THAT SINCE CAR SEATS

ARE PROBABLY MUCH MORE IN DEMAND IT'S MORE LIKELY THEY COULDN'T GET

CAR SEATS. HAVING JUST RECENTLY BOUGHT A CAR SEAT FOR MY DAUGHTER FOR

HER BABY, A LOT OF STORES WERE OUT OF CAR SEATS, FRANKLY, AND WE ENDED

UP BUYING IT ON AMAZON. SO I DO THINK THERE IS AN ISSUE AS IT MIGHT

RELATE TO CAR SEATS, BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN, YOU KNOW, SINCE ALARMS ARE SO

HARDLY BOUGHT IT'S LIKELY, FRANKLY, THAT THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE THE

PROBLEM.

MR. MANKTELOW: BUT IF IT WAS, COULD THERE BE A

PASS FOR THE DEPARTMENT OR STORE OR WHOEVER THAT WAS SELLING THE CAR

SEATS?

MS. PAULIN: IF -- SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT IF BY SOME

CHANCE THE STORE OWNER DIDN'T DO AN INVENTORY LOOK IN A TIMELY ENOUGH

WAY FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO GET INVENTORY IN THEIR STORE AND ONE OF THOSE

ITEMS HAPPENED TO BE THE ALARM, COULD -- WOULD THEY BE PREVENTED

FROM THE SALE OF -- OF A CAR SEAT. IS THAT --

MR. MANKTELOW: NO, NO. THE QUESTION IS, YOU

ALREADY SAID THAT THEY CAN STILL SELL THE CAR SEAT. BUT WOULD THE -- COULD

THEY BE FINED FOR NOT HAVING THE ALARM TO SELL WITH THE CAR SEAT?

MS. PAULIN: COULD THEY BE -- I THINK IF THEY'RE --

AND YOU KNOW, LOOK. I'M NOT THE ARBITER OF A CERTAIN SITUATION. IF THEY

HAD THEM ON ORDER, IF THEY -- THEY WERE STOCKING THEM, AS WAS SAID BY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

YOUR COLLEAGUE AND MINE, THAT WOULD BE PERHAPS ONE SCENARIO. THIS IS

TO REALLY -- THE FINE IS AN ATTEMPT TO GET AT THOSE STORES THAT HAVE NO

DESIRE TO SELL THE ALARM. THEY DON'T HAVE AN ORDER FOR THE ALARM. THEY

HAVE MADE NO -- THEY DIDN'T POST ANY SIGNAGE ABOUT THE NEED OR THE --

THE -- THE HARM THAT IT -- THAT, YOU KNOW, A CHILD COULD BE UNDER IF LEFT

ALONE. SO WHAT THE FINE IS REALLY ATTEMPTING TO DO IS TO GET AND TO

ENCOURAGE TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ALARM AND A

-- YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF PEOPLE'S MINDS WHEN THEY COME IN. SO IS IT

LIKELY THAT A STORE IS GOING TO BE FINED IF -- IF THEY'RE BACKORDERED AND

SOMEONE JUST CAME IN AND WANTED TO BUY A CAR SEAT I WOULD SAY THAT

WOULD BE -- 99 OUT OF 100 YOU MIGHT GET A MEAN INSPECTOR, BUT THE --

THE ODDS ARE VERY RARE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT STORE WOULD GET A FINE.

IF THEY WALKED INTO A STORE AND THERE WAS NO ALARMS EVER AND THERE WAS

NO SIGNAGE THEN, YEAH, I THINK THEN THEY WOULD GET -- PROBABLY THEY'D

GET A WARNING FIRST AND THEN THEY'D GET A FINE.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. THANK YOU.

JUST ONE LAST QUESTION. A LOT OF OUR COUNTY HEALTH

DEPARTMENTS GIVE OUT CAR SEATS TO FAMILIES THAT DON'T HAVE THEM WHEN

THEY HAVE A NEWBORN. WOULD THEY ALSO BE REQUIRED TO GIVE OUT THE

ALARM AS WELL?

MS. PAULIN: NOT ACCORDING TO THE BILL.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO, AGAIN, RETAILERS, PRIVATE

BUSINESSES HAVE TO PROVIDE IT BUT GOVERNMENT --

MS. PAULIN: I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BUYING AND

GIVING, YOU KNOW, WHICH -- YOU KNOW, BUT IT'S NOT A BAD IDEA.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ACTUALLY, YOU'RE GIVING ME A NEW BILL IDEA THAT THERE SHOULD BE PERHAPS

SOME SIGNAGE IF -- IF COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENTS ARE GIVING OUT CAR

SEATS.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR

TIME, MA'AM. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE ON A.381-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER WHO

WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE RECORD MY

COLLEAGUE MR. DIPIETRO IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 18, CALENDAR NO. 137, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04074, CALENDAR NO.

137, ENGLEBRIGHT, L. ROSENTHAL, THIELE, REYES, GOTTFRIED, GRIFFIN, OTIS,

STECK, EPSTEIN, JACOBSON, CARROLL, SEAWRIGHT, COLTON, GLICK, WILLIAMS,

NIOU, HUNTER, FAHY, SIMON, FALL, PAULIN, DINOWITZ, BRONSON, GUNTHER,

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ABINANTI, LAVINE, STIRPE, FERNANDEZ, KELLES, DICKENS, STERN, SAYEGH.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO PRESERVING

ECOLOGICAL INTEGRITY, WILDLIFE AND OPEN SPACE IN THE ADIRONDACK PARK.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

THIS BILL IS AN EFFORT TO PRESERVE THE CHARACTER OF THE ADIRONDACK PARK,

TO PROTECT ITS ECOLOGICAL INTEGRITY, TO PROTECT THE VIABILITY OF THE FORESTRY

PRACTICES AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATED WITH TIMBER HARVESTING, TO PROTECT THE

PARK'S SENSE OF PLACE BY REQUIRING CERTAIN THOUGHT TO BE GIVEN BEFORE

SUBDIVISIONS ARE APPROVED THAT WOULD LEAD TO FORM A SPRAWL THAT IS ALL

TOO FAMILIAR TO THOSE OF US WHO ARE FROM SUBURBAN AREAS OF THE STATE.

THAT SHOULD NOT BE A FATE VISITED UPON THE ADIRONDACKS. THIS IS A BILL

INTENDED TO MAKE SURE THAT ADVERSITY DOES NOT OCCUR.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MR. SIMPSON.

MR. SIMPSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I YIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. SIMPSON: THANK YOU. AS YOU KNOW, I'VE --

WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT THIS MANY TIMES OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, AND A

COUPLE OF THINGS HAVE EVOLVED SINCE THE TIME THAT THIS CONVERSATION

COMMENCED. AND ONE OF THEM BEING THE APA, THE ADIRONDACK PARK

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

AGENCY, ACTUALLY REVISED THEIR LARGE SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS TO INCLUDE

A LOT OF WHAT IS BEING, YOU KNOW, OUTLINED IN THIS BILL. WOULD YOU

AGREE WITH THAT?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: THEY HAVE MADE SOME

ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGES. I THINK THAT THAT'S POSITIVE. I'M GLAD YOU SEEM

TO AGREE. THE WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS NOT LOST OR FORGOTTEN

BECAUSE PEOPLE CHANGE, AND SOMETIMES THE SENSE OF MISSION THAT HAS

BROUGHT ABOUT THESE IMPROVEMENTS MIGHT BE FORGOTTEN UNLESS WE HAVE

BLACK LETTER LAW TO BACK UP THE THOUGHTFUL POLICY THAT HAS BEEN ADOPTED

IN RECENT YEARS.

MR. SIMPSON: RIGHT. SO, I ACTUALLY HAVE -- AND

I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH IT, IT'S IN THE NEW YORK CODES, RULES AND

REGULATIONS 9 CRR-NY57 -- OR 574.5. AND IT ACTUALLY OUTLINES ALL OF

THE DEVELOPMENT CONSIDERATIONS THAT -- THAT HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT FOR

EVERY SINGLE SUBDIVISION. YOU KNOW, WATER, EXISTING WATER QUALITY,

NATURAL SEDIMENTATION, EXISTING TOPOGRAPHY, MINERAL RESOURCES. I

MEAN, IT'S A QUITE EXTENSIVE LIST. CRITICAL RESOURCE AREAS, RIVERS,

CORRIDORS, RARE PLANT COMMUNITIES, KEY HABITAT FOR WILDLIFE, HISTORICAL

FACTORS, ALPINE, SUB-ALPINE LIFE ZONES. WHAT ISN'T COVERED IN THIS LAW

THAT IS ACTUALLY IN STATUTE?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: WE HAVE THE ABILITY, IF WE

MOVE THIS MEASURE, TO PUT INTO LAW SOME OF THE PRINCIPLES THAT THE

APA HAS ADOPTED ADMINISTRATIVELY. THAT GIVES A GREATER SENSE OF

RELIABILITY GOING FORWARD. I SHOULD POINT OUT, THE SCIENCE OF

CONSERVATION DESIGN IS ADVANCING. WE ARE LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

IMPORTANCE OF NOT FRAGMENTING FORESTED TRACKS. THERE ARE ECOLOGICAL

PRINCIPLES THAT HAVE BECOME A PART OF THE UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHY

GOOD CONSERVATION IS THAT HAVE REALLY ONLY BEEN LEARNED BY SCIENTISTS IN

THE LAST 30 TO 50 YEARS. AND WE CONTINUE TO LEARN. BY PASSING THIS

STATUTE, WE WOULD MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR THAT NEW LEARNING TO BE APPLIED.

BY THE WAY, I SHOULD POINT OUT THE IDEA OF THINKING BEFORE MOVING

FORWARD WITH -- WITH SUBDIVISIONS AND APPLYING ECOLOGICAL PRINCIPLES IS

SOMETHING THAT WE LEARNED THE HARD WAY ON LONG ISLAND WHERE WE, FOR

BETTER OR WORSE, INVENTED SPRAWL AND SAW THE FRAGMENTATION OF THE

LARGEST PRAIRIE IN EASTERN NORTH AMERICA REDUCED FROM 60,000 ACRES TO

FOUR ACRES OF -- OF THE HEMPSTEAD PRAIRIE. AND -- AND I COULD GO ON

AND GIVE OTHER EXAMPLES. THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN TO THE PREMIERE

ECOSYSTEM OF THE (INAUDIBLE) PORTION OF OUR STATE.

MR. SIMPSON: WELL, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU. AND

WE PROBABLY MAY DIFFER ON THE RISK AT THIS POINT. I ACTUALLY LIVE THERE.

WE HAVE PROBABLY THE STRONGEST ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS IN THE

STATE. I DON'T THINK WE'RE IN ANY DANGER OF BECOMING -- I JUST SPENT TWO

DAYS ON LONG ISLAND AND, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH YOU. THERE'S AN

AWFUL LOT OF PAVEMENT, NOT A LOT OF TREES, NOT A LOT OF -- SO I CAN SEE THE

DRASTIC DIFFERENCE. BUT, YOU KNOW, THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY WAS

CREATED IN 1972. THAT WAS AN AGENCY CREATED BY, IN LAW, BY THE STATE

OF NEW YORK TO PROTECT THAT RESOURCE AND TO DECIDE THESE -- MAKE THESE

DECISIONS ON SUBDIVISIONS. THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES. I CAN'T POINT TO

ANY INSTANCE SINCE THESE REGULATIONS HAVE BEEN ADOPTED THAT THE CURRENT

AGENCY HASN'T WORKED. AND SO I WOULD -- I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT THERE'S

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

SIX MILLION ACRES IN THE ADIRONDACK PARK. ALMOST THREE MILLION

PRIVATE, THREE MILLION PUBLIC. HOW DID THE THREE MILLION --

APPROXIMATELY THREE MILLION ACRES OF PRIVATELY-OWNED PROPERTY, ONLY

ABOUT 15 PERCENT IS EVEN DEVELOPABLE? WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

BECAUSE OF TERRAIN SLOPES, GEOLOGY, THE WETLANDS.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: AS IT SHOULD BE, THIS IS THE

HIGH GROUND OF OUR STATE. THE WELLSPRING OF OUR WATER SYSTEMS FOR

MUCH OF THE STATE. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF LONG ISLAND IT'S ALL OF THE

STATE.

MR. SIMPSON: SO MOVING ON, IN THIS BILL, THIS

WOULD ACTUALLY PROVIDE IN SOME INSTANCES MORE DEVELOPMENT THROUGH

DENSITY BONUSES. WOULD YOU AGREE?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: THERE IS A DENSITY BONUS AS

AN INCENTIVE THAT IS AUTHORIZED AS A CONSIDERATION. WE HAVE

EXPERIENCED THIS ON LONG ISLAND. TOO LATE TO SAVE THE GENERAL

LANDSCAPE OF MUCH OF THE ISLAND. BUT IN EASTERN LONG ISLAND WHERE

WE DID LEARN FROM THE EXPERIENCE OF WESTERN LONG ISLAND, WE HAVE

SEEN CLUSTERING. WE HAVE SEEN CONSERVATION DESIGN PRINCIPLES BUILT IN,

GREEN BELTS PRESERVED. AND EVEN WITH THE DENSITY BONUSES, IT'S NOT --

IT'S NOT AN ADVERSITY TO HAVE SOME DENSITY BONUSES IF IN THE LARGER

PICTURE YOU ARE PRESERVING BIODIVERSITY, SPECIES' ABILITY TO CONTINUE TO

LIVE. WE KNOW FROM ECOLOGICAL STUDIES THAT FRAGMENTING A FOREST INTO

ISLANDS REDUCES THE CARRYING CAPACITY OF -- OF MANY OF THE ANIMALS THAT

LIVE THERE, AND THEY'D GO LOCALLY EXTINCT DUE TO THE CREATION OF -- OF

ECOLOGICAL ISLANDS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. SIMPSON: WHICH BRINGS UP ANOTHER IMPORTANT

QUESTION. IF WE'RE GOING TO DECIDE IMPORTANT ECOLOGICAL RESOURCES IN A

GEOGRAPHIC AREA THAT MAKES UP SIX MILLION ACRES, WHY WOULD WE FOCUS

ON LARGE PARCELS RATHER THAN LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE ADIRONDACK PARK? I

THINK THERE'S A FLAW IN THAT ANALYSIS TO LOOK AT SMALLER POSTAGE-

STAMP-SIZE LOTS COMPARED TO THE OVERALL FOOTPRINT. SO WHY WOULD WE

DO AN ASSESSMENT OF THE ADIRONDACK PARK?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS LIMITS

IN ANY WAY THE ABILITY OF THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY TO LOOK AT THE

ENTIRE RESOURCE AND PLAN APPROPRIATELY. THAT'S THE KEY WORD, PLAN.

THE ABILITY TO THINK, THE ABILITY TO KNOW THAT THROUGH THAT THOUGHTFUL

PROCESS OF TAKING INFORMATION AT THE FRONT-LOADING OF A DEVELOPMENT

PROPOSAL THAT WE WOULD LEARN BEFORE WE SEE A DEVELOPER INVESTING A LOT

OF MONEY INTO A PLAN AND COME IN WITH A DRAWING THAT IS COMPLETELY

INCOMPATIBLE WITH CONSERVATION DESIGN AND MODERN CONSERVATION

PRINCIPLES. THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE NOW IN -- IN ALL TOO MANY INSTANCES.

MR. SIMPSON: SO THAT BRINGS UP ANOTHER QUESTION.

THIS IS PROMOTING CLUSTERING, BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, AT A HIGH LEVEL.

YOU KNOW, IN THE ADIRONDACK PARK BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, THE NATURE

OF THE PROPERTY, THE STEEP SLOPES, THE WETLANDS, TO FOCUS ON CLUSTERING IS

GOING TO, YOU KNOW, BRING FORTH THE NEED TO HAVE QUITE A SOPHISTICATED

WASTEWATER TREATMENT SYSTEM, NOT JUST A REGULAR SEPTIC SYSTEM. I MEAN,

IF YOU CLUSTERED TEN FAMILIES TOGETHER, YOU KNOW THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO

-- THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE A MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED SYSTEM TO PROTECT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: IT DEPENDS --

MR. SIMPSON: -- VERSUS A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME

WHICH ALSO MAKES IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHICH

SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE NUMBER

ONE ISSUES THAT HAS BEEN RAISED IN JUST ABOUT EVERY CONVERSATION.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: THE IDEA OF INCREASING

DENSITY DOES RUN COUNTER TO THE IDEA OF PROTECTING WATER UNLESS YOU

HAVE A TREATMENT SYSTEM. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT'S TO THE ADVANTAGE OF

ANY WATER COURSE OR WATER BODY TO HAVE HOUSES PLACED WITHIN ITS WATER

CATCHMENT AREA WITHOUT TREATMENT. THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE NOW,

UNFORTUNATELY, IN TOO MANY INSTANCES. SO YES, IT MAY COST SOME

MONEY, BUT THERE ARE SAVINGS FROM CLUSTERING IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF

ROAD MACADAM THAT YOU HAVE TO LAY DOWN, FOR EXAMPLE. THE AMOUNT

OF WIRING THAT YOU HAVE TO BRING TO EACH OF THE HOMES GIVES YOU THE

CHANCE TO ALSO PRESERVE A SENSE OF PLACE BY PUTTING THAT WIRING

UNDERGROUND. IF THE HOUSES ARE CLUSTERED THAT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO

DO IF YOU HAVE THE TOP OF EACH HILL AS A SITE FOR A HOME. AND FROM A

WATER CHEMISTRY PERSPECTIVE, THOSE UNTREATED CESSPOOL SYSTEMS RUNNING

DOWNHILL INTO WHAT IN MANY CASES IS THE PUBLIC WATER SOURCE IS JUST NOT

GOOD HYGIENE.

MR. SIMPSON: SO IF THIS IS SO IMPORTANT FOR ONE

REGION IN NEW YORK STATE, WHY AREN'T WE -- WHY ISN'T IT IMPORTANT

ENOUGH TO ASSESS THE VALUE ACROSS THE ENTIRE UNITED STATE -- OR NEW

YORK STATE --

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I WISH WE COULD -- I WISH WE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

COULD --

MR. SIMPSON: NO, I'M JUST --

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: LET'S -- LET'S SAY FOR THE STATE.

I -- I RESPECT OUR BOUNDARIES OF LIMITATION IN THAT REGARD. I THINK IT -- IT

DOES MAKE SENSE FOR US TO ENCOURAGE MODERN PLANNING PRINCIPLES TO BE

USED ANY TIME WHERE WE HAVE LARGE FORESTED TRACKS IN -- INCLUDING

EASTERN LONG ISLAND AND -- AND THE SOUTHPORT PINE BARRENS AND THE

PINE BARRENS REGIONS OF EASTERN SUFFOLK COUNTY AND OTHER PARTS OF THE

STATE AS WELL, INCLUDING THE ADIRONDACKS. BUT THE ADIRONDACKS HAS A

SPECIAL CACHE. AND SINCE, AS YOU POINTED OUT, IN 1972 -- THE APA WAS

ESTABLISHED IN 1973 -- THE LAND USE PLAN FOR THE ADIRONDACKS -- AND

EVEN BEFORE THAT A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT GOING BACK TO THE 19TH

CENTURY REALLY CLEARLY UNDERSCORING THAT THE ADIRONDACKS IS A PARK, A

STATE PARK, THE LARGEST IN THE NATION, A MODEL FOR NATIONAL PARKS IN OTHER

PARTS OF THE WORLD. THAT'S DIFFERENT. AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO SAY

WE SHOULD IMPOSE THIS CONCEPT ON ALL PARTS OF OUR STATE, I SHOULD POINT

OUT THE ADIRONDACKS ARE THE ONLY PART OF THE STATE THAT ARE SO IDENTIFIED

AS A STATE PARK.

MR. SIMPSON: WELL, THANK YOU.

AND ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. SIMPSON: MR. SPEAKER, I -- I AM VERY

CONCERNED ABOUT PASSING A BILL LIKE THIS WHEN WE, THIS LEGISLATURE,

CREATED AN AGENCY TO DEAL WITH PRECISELY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

IN THIS BILL. AND NOW MAYBE THE CONVERSATION SHOULD BE DO WE NEED

THE APA IF THE LEGISLATURE IS NOW GOING TO GET INVOLVED IN SUBDIVISION

REGULATIONS, DENSITY BONUSES, TRANSFER AND DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS. I -- I

FEAR THAT -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S 150 MEMBERS HERE AND THERE'S PROBABLY

NOT VERY MANY THAT UNDERSTAND THE REGULATED PART OF THE ADIRONDACK

PARK. THE REGULATIONS OF THE ADIRONDACK PARK AND THE PROTECTIONS THAT

NEW YORK STATE HAS ALREADY SOLIDIFIED IN LAW.

SO I'M OPPOSED AT THIS -- WITH THIS BILL. AND I WOULD

ALSO SAY THAT SINCE THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY HAS REVISED THEIR

APPLICATIONS FOR SUBDIVISION, FOR LARGE SCALE SUBDIVISIONS, THAT THEY

HAVE ADDRESSED EVERY SINGLE ISSUE IN THIS BILL WITHOUT -- WITHOUT

SOMETHING THAT PROVIDES FOR INCREASED DEVELOPMENT OR PROPERTY OWNERS

BEING UNDULY SEVERELY HAMPERED BY LEGISLATION THAT'S DONE HERE IN

ALBANY. SO I -- I'M GOING TO VOTE NO AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE ALL OF MY

COLLEAGUES TO ALSO VOTE NO. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. SMULLEN.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR CONTINUE TO YIELD FOR A FEW MORE QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ENGLEBRIGHT, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I YIELD, YES. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ENGLEBRIGHT

YIELDS.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ENGLEBRIGHT. THIS IS TRULY AN IMPORTANT BILL TO THE PEOPLE THAT I

REPRESENT IN THE PARK ALONG WITH MR. SIMPSON. AND I THINK THE

IMPORTANT THING HERE IS THAT THIS BODY NEEDS TO KNOW HOW THE PEOPLE

OF -- OF OUR DISTRICTS FEEL ABOUT THIS SORT OF LEGISLATION. IT SEEMS TO BE

VERY TECHNICAL, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT. AND I'D LIKE TO ASK A FEW QUESTIONS

ALONG THE LINE AND TRY NOT TO BE REPETITIVE ABOUT THE BILL THAT WE HAVE

BEFORE US.

NOW, YOU STATED THAT YOU GOT THIS -- THE IDEA FOR THIS

BILL FROM -- FROM LONG ISLAND. IS THAT A -- IS THAT A FAIR ASSUMPTION? I

KNOW WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT THIS A FEW TIMES.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: THE IDEA ACTUALLY CAME FROM

THE ADIRONDACKS, FROM ADIRONDACK WILD AND THE SIERRA CLUB, OTHER

ENTITIES WITHIN THE ADIRONDACKS, AS A SPECIFIC CRY FOR HELP BECAUSE THE

ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY REALLY WAS STARTING TO TREAT THEIR LARGE-SCALE

SUBDIVISION APPLICATIONS AS SORT OF A ROUTINE RUBBER STAMP PROCESS.

HOWEVER, YES, I ALSO WAS PREDISPOSED TO LISTENING TO AND

UNDERSTANDING THAT CRY FOR HELP BASED UPON WHAT I HAD EXPERIENCED

LIVING ON LONG ISLAND WHERE I REMEMBER NOT TOO MANY YEARS AGO IT

WAS THOUGHT TO BE A -- A ROUTINE MATTER TO GIVE A RUBBER STAMP APPROVAL

TO LARGE SUBDIVISIONS THAT RESULTED IN CLEAR-CUTTING OF HUNDREDS OF ACRES

OF FORESTED LAND, AND WITHOUT ANY CONSEQUENTIAL OR SIMULTANEOUS

THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT THE -- THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT MIGHT BE FOR OUR

WATER QUALITY AND OUR DRINKING WATER SOURCE AREA.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, THANK YOU FOR THAT BECAUSE I

THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE PEOPLE KNOW THE ORIGINS OF THE BILL. BUT I

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

WOULD -- I WOULD SUPPOSE AND I COULD ARGUE -- AND I WILL -- THAT THE

ADIRONDACK PARK IS NOT LONG ISLAND. IN FACT, THE DISTRICT THAT I

REPRESENT IN SQUARE MILES IS BIGGER THAN ALL OF LONG ISLAND WITH ALMOST

FOUR MILLION PEOPLE AND THAT THE PARADIGM THAT WE -- WE HAVE HERE IS A

LITTLE BIT OFF. AND I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED SOME OF THE ORGANIZATIONS,

THE ADVOCACY ORGANIZATIONS THAT YOU'VE DIALOGUED WITH. BUT THERE ARE

OTHER ORGANIZATIONS SUCH AS THE ADIRONDACK PARK LOCAL GOVERNMENT

REVIEW BOARD, THE -- THE INTERCOUNTY GROUP THAT REPRESENTS THE

COUNTIES AROUND NOT ONLY THE CORE OF THE PARK, THE SIX MILLION ACRES, THE

THREE MILLION PUBLIC AND THREE MILLION PRIVATE, BUT ALSO THE RING OF THE

PARK, WHICH IS 12 COUNTIES, INCLUDING MANY OF THE FIVE COUNTIES THAT I

REPRESENT; ST. LAWRENCE COUNTY, HAMILTON COUNTY, HERKIMER COUNTY,

FULTON COUNTY AND PARTS OF ONEIDA COUNTY. AND WHAT I WOULD

SUPPOSE AND SAY AND I'D LIKE YOUR COMMENT ON IS WHAT IS -- SINCE THE

ADIRONDACK PARK CAME INTO EXISTENCE IN 1973, HAVE THERE BECOME

MORE OR LESS PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY LIVE IN THE PARK?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I REALLY CAN'T ANSWER THAT

QUESTION. I KNOW THAT THERE HAS BEEN SOME INFLUX. I ALSO KNOW THAT

THERE HAS BEEN SOME MIGRATION OUT. YOUNG PEOPLE LOOKING FOR JOBS

AND SEARCHING FOR THEIR CAREERS AFTER GOING TO OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE

AND NATION TO DO SCHOOLING AND -- AND RECEIVE THEIR TRAINING. I WOULD --

I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT I WOULD DEFER TO YOU TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

I SUSPECT YOU KNOW THE ANSWER. I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, THE -- THE ANSWER IS IS THAT

THE POPULATION IS ACTUALLY SHRINKING --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: (INAUDIBLE)

MR. SMULLEN: AND THAT'S PARTICULARLY BOTHERSOME

BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMICS OF THE PARK. AND WE'LL GET INTO A LITTLE BIT

ABOUT THE ECONOMICS OF THE -- THE PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THE VARIOUS

INDUSTRIES IN THE PARK AND WHETHER THEY CAN AFFORD TO LIVE IN THE PARK.

AND WE'LL ALSO GET INTO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SCHOOLING, ABOUT THE

CHILDREN THAT -- THAT GO TO SCHOOL IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN THE AREAS THAT

I REPRESENT. BUT WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS -- IS -- WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT

THIS ISSUE -- THIS ISSUE FOR A LONG TIME, AND IT HASN'T BEEN UNTIL NOW THAT

THIS BILL HAS COME TO THE FLOOR WITH A SERIOUSNESS AND A -- AND A SENATE

SPONSOR THAT -- THAT MAY INDICATE THAT IT WOULD PASS. BUT FROM 2014

THERE WAS A STUDY DONE BY THE ADIRONDACK PARK REVIEW IN WHICH THEY

TALKED ABOUT HOW MUCH OF THE PARK IS RESTRICTED FROM FURTHER

DEVELOPMENT AND THAT 58 PERCENT OF IT IS RESTRICTED FROM FURTHER

DEVELOPMENT, THAT THE STATE HAS 45 PERCENT OF THE LAND AND THAT 13

PERCENT IS -- IS SUBJECT TO CONSERVATION EASEMENT. IF THIS BILL IS PASSED,

WILL IT BECOME MORE OR LESS RESTRICTIVE FOR PRIVATE LANDOWNERS TO

DEVELOP THEIR LAND THAT IS WITHIN THE PARK ACCORDING TO APA

REGULATIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY EXISTING?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: THE PASSING OF THIS MEASURE

DOES NOT IMPACT UPON A LANDOWNER'S RIGHTS EXCEPT THAT THEY -- FOR

CERTAIN LARGE PARCELS IN PARTICULAR -- WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH A

PLANNING PROCESS IN WHICH THERE IS AN UPFRONT ECOLOGICAL ASSESSMENT

AND LAND USE ASSESSMENT. BUT THAT IS A THOUGHT PROCESS. IT DOES NOT

TAKE AWAY ANY RIGHTS. LET ME JUST POINT OUT SOMETHING. YOU

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MENTIONED THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LONG ISLAND AND THE ADIRONDACKS IN

TERMS OF ACREAGE. IT'S TRUE. WE ARE FROM A SMALLER GEOGRAPHY, BUT THE

PRINCIPLES OF THE CARRYING CAPACITY FOR RARE, THREATENED AND ENDANGERED

ANIMALS AND PLANTS, EVEN ORDINARY ANIMALS AND PLANTS, WILL BE PRETTY

MUCH THE SAME PRINCIPLE IN THE ADIRONDACKS OR IN THE TUG HILL

PLATEAU, IN THE HUDSON VALLEY OR ON LONG ISLAND. THOSE SAME

PRINCIPLES APPLY. AND IN THE -- IN THE CASE OF THE ADIRONDACKS, WE

HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL BASIS FOR RECOGNIZING THAT THIS IS A PARTICULARLY

SPECIAL FORESTED REGION, AND TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE WE SHOULD NOT

IGNORE THAT. THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY ANYBODY'S PROPERTY RIGHTS, BUT IT

DOES CALL FOR THOUGHT IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN AN APPROVAL IS

GIVEN THAT IT -- IT MAKES BEST USE OF SCIENCE.

MR. SMULLEN: WILL -- WILL THIS RAISE THE

PERMITTING COST FOR DEVELOPMENT IN THE PARK?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: IT SHOULD SAY THAT. IF, IN FACT,

THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY IS ALREADY APPLYING THE PRINCIPLES OF THIS

BILL - AND I BELIEVE THAT'S TRUE, AS WE HEARD FROM THE PRIOR SPEAKER - I

THINK IT'S BECAUSE WE PUT THE BILL FORWARD, BY THE WAY. BUT IN -- IN

SUCH AN INSTANCE THIS WILL ACTUALLY SAVE MONEY FOR A LARGE-SCALE

DEVELOPER BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WAIT UNTIL THE END OF THE PROCESS TO LEARN

THAT HE'S MADE A MISTAKE IN TERMS OF HIS PROPOSED SUBDIVISION. HE

LEARNS UP FRONT WHAT THE NATURAL LIMITATIONS OF THE LAND ARE OR WHAT THE

ECOLOGICAL IMPACTS WILL BE AND HE'S ABLE TO PLAN TO AVOID A LAST-MINUTE

NEEDED CHANGE. THAT RESULTS IN SAVINGS. THIS IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING

THAT A DEVELOPER SHOULD DO, BUT THAT THEY USUALLY DON'T DO WHEN THEY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MAKE AN APPLICATION.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, I'VE BEEN -- I'VE BEEN

FOLLOWING THIS VERY CLOSELY, OBVIOUSLY, AND SOME PEOPLE FEEL THAT IT

WILL JUST SIMPLY BE AN UPFRONT NO AND THAT WILL ATTAIN THE GOAL THAT'S --

THAT'S BEHIND SOME OF THIS BILL. WHAT'S THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY'S

POSITION ON THIS BILL?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIFIC

KNOWLEDGE THAT THEY'VE TAKEN A POSITION ON THIS. I WOULD NOT BE

SURPRISED THAT THEY HAD A MIXED OPINION IF YOU WERE TO TALK TO PEOPLE

WHO HAVE BEEN MEMBERS OF THE PARK COMMISSION OVER TIME. YOU

PROBABLY HAVE SOME DIVERSITY OF OPINION. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY'VE

TAKEN A FORMAL POSITION.

MR. SMULLEN: I THINK IT VARIES IF YOU'RE IN-PARK OR

OUT-OF-PARK AS FAR AS WHERE YOUR BOARD SEAT IS.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: YOU MAY BE RIGHT.

MR. SMULLEN: NOW I -- BACK TO THE OLD QUESTION.

DOES DEC HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO -- TO ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS

BILL? IT SEEMS THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A LOT MORE TECHNICAL REGULATION

THAT WE'RE LEGISLATING HERE. DO THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES IN THERE, DEC

REGION 5 AND 6?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE

ABILITY, AND OF COURSE I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH

APPLICATIONS THAT COME THROUGH THE DOOR IN EITHER EVENT. THEY SHOULD

DEAL WITH THOSE APPLICATIONS, THOUGH, FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF A

MEANINGFUL KNOWLEDGE BASE. I SHOULD JUST POINT SOMETHING OUT. THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

PEOPLE OF THE STATE ARE DRAWN TO THE ADIRONDACKS IN LARGE NUMBERS AS

TOURISTS, AS WELL AS PARTICIPANTS IN THIS EXTRAORDINARY EXPERIMENT IN

CONSERVATION THAT HAS LED THE NATION FOR OVER 100 YEARS. THE PEOPLE OF

THE STATE EXPECT THAT WE WILL DO OUR BEST TO PROTECT THAT RESOURCE.

THAT'S WHAT THIS MEASURE ENDEAVORS TO DO.

MR. SMULLEN: AND LAST QUESTION BEFORE I GO ON

THE BILL. COULD THIS BE CHARACTERIZED AS AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL FURTHER

TAKING OF PRIVATE LAND AS MANY THAT FELT THE ORIGINAL ADIRONDACK PARK

ACT WAS?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: CERTAINLY NOT. REQUIRING

PEOPLE TO THINK IS NOT AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACT. I'VE HEARD THAT ON LONG

ISLAND FROM DEVELOPERS WHO OBJECTED TO PROPOSALS IN SOUTH HAMPTON

AND EAST HAMPTON, BROOKHAVEN WHEN THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT

REQUIRING A CLUSTERING. THE INITIAL CONCERNS EXPRESSED EVEN RESULTED IN

COURT. I ACTUALLY TESTIFIED IN FEDERAL COURT ON THIS MATTER. IT IS NOT

UNCONSTITUTIONAL. IN FACT, IT IS SIMPLY MAKING BEST USE OF AVAILABLE

PRINCIPLES OF CONSERVATION. IT IS NOT ALSO SOMETHING THAT TAKES VALUE

AWAY, WHICH WAS DETERMINED THROUGH THOSE COURT ACTIONS IN

BROOKHAVEN TOWN. IT DOESN'T TAKE VALUE AWAY. IN FACT, IF YOU GO TO

THE TOWNSHIPS THAT I'VE JUST MENTIONED AND LOOK AT WHAT THE VALUE OF

THE PROPERTIES ARE, YOU WILL BE ASTONISHED. CLUSTER PROPERTIES IN FACT

NOT ONLY HELD THEIR OWN, THERE ARE MANY CASES BECAUSE THEY HAVE A

SENSE OF COMMUNITY, THEY HAVE A GREATER LEVEL OF DESIRABILITY AND THEY

COME IN VERY HIGH PRICES. I REALIZE THAT DOESN'T HELP THE QUESTION OF

AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT IF YOU'RE LOSING POPULATION IN THE REGION, THEN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

IT MEANS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE OLD HOUSING AVAILABLE.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

THAT. I DO WISH THERE WAS IN THIS PROVISION THAT -- IN THIS BILL THAT

REQUIRED THE STATE TO FEEL HOW THE PEOPLE IN THE PARK VIEW THESE --

THESE TYPES OF LEGISLATION.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. SMULLEN: SO THIS -- THIS BILL THAT WE HAVE

BEFORE US IS A FURTHER REGULATION OF THE ZONING SCHEME THAT WE HAVE IN

THE PARK THAT'S CURRENTLY ADMINISTERED BY THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY.

AND, YOU KNOW, MICRO LEGISLATION LIKE THIS IS OFTEN RIFE WITH SPECIAL

INTERESTS AND THAT'S -- THERE'S NO EXCEPTION HERE. THERE ARE MANY AREAS

OF THE PARK AND THIS IS THE -- THE CORE OF THE PARK SURROUNDED BY THE

RING IN WHICH PEOPLE LIVE. AND THESE ARE -- THESE ARE REAL PEOPLE. AS I

MENTIONED, THEY ARE THE PEOPLE THAT I REPRESENT. AND IT'S BECOMING

HARDER AND HARDER TO -- TO MAINTAIN OUR VOLUNTARY AMBULANCE CORPS, TO

MAINTAIN THE PUBLIC ORGANIZATIONS THAT SUPPORT A RICH AND VIBRANT

CULTURAL LIFE IN THE PARK FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE YEAR-ROUND. TO

HAVE GOOD JOBS IN WHICH THEY CAN SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES. TO HAVE THE

BASIS FOR WHICH SCHOOLS CAN EDUCATE THE YOUNG CHILDREN SO THEY CANNOT

ONLY BE BORN AND RAISED IN SUCH A WONDERFUL PLACE AS THE ADIRONDACK

PARK, BUT POTENTIALLY LIVE AND RAISE FAMILIES THERE THEMSELVES. AND

SINCE 1973, THE PARK HAS BEEN GOING DARK WITH -- FROM THE PEOPLE THAT I

REPRESENT. PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE PARK MORE THAN THEY'RE STAYING. AND

IT'S CHANGED THE COMPLEXION SO MUCH SO THAT I WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

OF THE PEOPLE IN THE PARK AND THE PEOPLE THAT I REPRESENT. AND WHILE I

UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE -- THE VARIOUS PROVISIONS THAT THIS BILL IS AND HOW

TECHNICAL IT SEEMS AND HOW RIGHT IT IS, I ASK THE MEMBERS OF THIS BODY,

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF THE STATE CAME INTO YOUR TOWN AND TOLD YOU

WHAT YOU COULD AND YOU COULD NOT DO IN MANHATTAN OR IN THE BRONX OR

IN BROOKLYN OR IN QUEENS OR IN BUFFALO OR IN SYRACUSE OR IN LONG

ISLAND? IF SOMEONE CAME FROM ANOTHER PART OF THE STATE WITH

MANDATES AND RESTRICTIONS THAT GO BEYOND THE -- THE -- THE NORMS OF

COMMONSENSE THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED DOWN FROM GENERATION TO

GENERATION BY THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THIS AREA WHO CALL IT HOME.

FOR THAT REASON I CAN OBVIOUSLY NOT SUPPORT THIS BILL,

AND I WOULD URGE ALL MEMBERS OF THIS BODY TO THINK ABOUT THIS FROM

YOUR OWN LOCAL PERSPECTIVE. AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT PEOPLE

COMING FROM ANOTHER AREA OF THE STATE TO DO FUNDAMENTAL THINGS THAT

WOULDN'T PASS IN A HOME RULE MESSAGE FROM THE 12 COUNTIES IN THIS

AREA THAT YOU PAUSE AND CONSIDER. AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO THINK THAT

OUR OTHER BODY, THE SENATE, WOULD DO THE SAME THING AND THAT THE

EXECUTIVE BRANCH WHEN THEY THINK ABOUT THIS BILL AS TO WHETHER OR NOT

THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY IS DOING ITS JOB TO BE THE MOST RESTRICTIVE

LAND USE AND ZONING ORGANIZATION IN THE NEW YORK STATE, IS THAT NOT

ENOUGH? AND WHY DO WE NEED THIS LEGISLATION?

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: MR. SPEAKER, I JUST WANT TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

READ A PORTION OF THE MEMORANDUM OF SUPPORT FROM ADIRONDACK WILD.

THIS IS A CONSERVATION ORGANIZATION BASED IN THE ADIRONDACKS. QUOTE,

"APA CONTINUES TO ISSUE PERMITS FOR BADLY-DESIGNED DEVELOPMENT OF

PRIVATE ADIRONDACK LAKES AND FORESTS WHICH FRAGMENT ECOSYSTEMS INTO

MULTIPLE OWNERSHIPS AND WHICH LACK LARGE CONTIGUOUS BLOCKS OF OPEN

SPACE, LIMITING OPTIONS FOR WILDLIFE CONNECTIVITY, FORESTRY AND OPEN

SPACE RECREATION. THE MOST RECENT EXAMPLE WAS THE APA PERMIT FOR

34 NEW HOMES AT WOODWARD LAKE IN MARCH OF 2021. THEREFORE, APA

REQUIRES THIS NEW LEGISLATIVE DIRECTION TO DESIGN FUTURE LARGE-SCALE

SUBDIVISIONS IN WAYS THAT ARE BOTH ECOLOGICALLY AND ECONOMICALLY

SOUND. THE BILL WOULD MAXIMIZE FLEXIBILITY AND THE CONCEPTUAL

ANALYSIS, STUDY AND SELECTION OF PREFERRED SUBDIVISION DESIGNS WHICH

HARMONIZE WITH THEIR ENVIRONMENTS AND DO NOT NEEDLESSLY FRAGMENT

ECONOMICALLY AND ECOLOGICALLY USEFUL BLOCKS OF WORKING FORESTS.

HUNTING, FISHING AND OTHER OPEN SPACE RECREATION PURSUITS ARE

PROTECTED. IN 2019 THE BILL ENJOYED DIVERSE ADIRONDACK STAKEHOLDER

SUPPORT." END QUOTE.

I AM VERY PLEASED TO ADVANCE THIS FOR A VOTE HERE

TODAY. I HOPE IT BECOMES LAW TO PROTECT THE HIGH GROUND OF OUR STATE,

ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PARTS OF NORTH AMERICA. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR.

ENGLEBRIGHT.

MR. BURDICK.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. BURDICK: I RISE IN SUPPORT OF THIS BILL. AND AS

ONE WHO ROSE UP THROUGH MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT AND SAW THE NEED IN

MY OWN TOWN OF BEDFORD WITH VAST AREAS OF WETLANDS AND

ENVIRONMENTALLY-SENSITIVE AREAS, I SAW THE NEED OF BALANCING THE

INTERESTS OF PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS WITH THE NEED TO PRESERVE OUR MOST

ENVIRONMENTALLY-SENSITIVE LANDS. AND THE SAME IS TRUE HERE. AND I

WISH TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR REACHING A VERY THOUGHTFUL BALANCE

BETWEEN THE NEEDS OF PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS AND THE NEED TO PROTECT

THESE INCREDIBLY VALUED AREAS THAT ARE SUCH A RICH AREA HERE IN THE STATE

OF NEW YORK. AND IT'S NOTED, AS -- AS THE CHAIR AND THE SPONSOR HAS

STATED THAT IT PROVIDES INCENTIVES. IT PROVIDES DENSITY BONUSES. SO

THAT'S PART OF THE BALANCE ACHIEVED.

AND I STRONGLY SUPPORT THE ENACTMENT OF THIS BILL, AND

AGAIN THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE WORK DONE TO BRING THIS FORWARD, AND

THE SPEAKER FOR BRINGING IT TO THE FLOOR AS WELL. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY 4074. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER WHO

WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THEIR CONFERENCE POSITION IS

REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. FOR THE REASONS

MENTIONED BY MY COLLEAGUES, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS GENERALLY

OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT, THEY CAN CERTAINLY

VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR OR VOTE YES BY CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER'S

OFFICE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME WHO WANT TO BE

AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S

OFFICE AND THEIR VOTE WILL BE PROPERLY RECORDED.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WITH ALL

DUE RESPECT TO MY COLLEAGUES FROM LONG ISLAND AND WESTCHESTER, AS

SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY LIVES IN THE FOOTHILLS OF THE ADIRONDACKS AND

ALONG WITH MY COLLEAGUES WHO REPRESENT PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE

ADIRONDACKS, I WANT TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF PERSPECTIVE. I -- I ALSO CAME

UP THROUGH MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT. I WORKED AS A MEMBER OF THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ZONING BOARD, THE PLANNING BOARD. I CURRENTLY REPRESENT A TOWN THAT'S

IN PART OF THE ADIRONDACKS RIGHT NOW, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT ONCE I

STARTED REPRESENTING THAT TOWN I LEARNED ABOUT THE APA. THE APA IS A

VERY STRINGENT AND RIGOROUS STEP IN THE LAND USE AND APPROVAL PROCESS

FOR SUBDIVISIONS THAT I HAVE HAD TO LEARN A GREAT DEAL ABOUT AS -- AS

ATTORNEY FOR THIS TOWN. THEY WERE ORGANIZED -- IT WAS ORGANIZED IN

1973. THE ADIRONDACKS IS A TREASURE, AND IT IS BEING MANAGED WELL. I

JUST THINK OF THIS BILL AS A WAY OF SAYING -- THE STATE SAYING ALTHOUGH

THE ADIRONDACKS IS A TREASURE AND IT'S BEING MANAGED WELL, WE, THE

STATE, ARE GOING TO TELL YOU THAT YOU MUST, MUST REQUIRE CONSERVATION

SUBDIVISIONS TO BE UTILIZED. AND I THINK THAT THAT JUST TAKES AWAY FROM

THE IDEA OF THE APA AS A FULLY-FUNCTIONING, VERY CAPABLE, VERY RIGOROUS

ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. AND IT TAKES AWAY FROM WHAT THE WISHES ARE OF

THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIVE THERE.

SO FOR THOSE REASONS I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. SMULLEN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

SPEAKER. I RAN OUT OF TIME IN MY 15 MINUTES, I DIDN'T WANT TO GO INTO A

SECOND. BUT I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T MENTION AND MEMORIALIZE

FRED MONROE, WHO PASSED AWAY DECEMBER 17TH OF 2021. A LONG-TIME

SUPERVISOR IN WARREN COUNTY, ALSO VERY ACTIVE IN THE ADIRONDACK PARK

LOCAL GOVERNMENT REVIEW BOARD. MR. MONROE, REST IN PEACE. WE

HAVE THE WATCH AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

PRINCIPLES YOU ESPOUSED.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MRS. GUNTHER IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED. THANK

YOU.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 20, CALENDAR NO. 152, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04620, CALENDAR NO.

152, ZEBROWSKI. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY ACTIONS AND

PROCEEDINGS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING LOAN SERVICES FOR LOANS ON

VACANT AND ABANDONED RESIDENTIAL REAL PROPERTY TO PAY CERTAIN

CONDOMINIUM COMMON CHARGES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, SIR.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS

IS AN IMPORTANT BILL FOR CONDOMINIUM OWNERS ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW

YORK. WHAT IT DOES IS IT CLEARLY ESTABLISHES THAT IN THE CASE OF A

FORECLOSURE WHERE THE PROPERTY IS ABANDONED THAT THE SERVICER MUST PAY

THE CONDOMINIUM COMMON CHARGES AS DEFINED IN SECTION 339(E) OF THE

REAL PROPERTY LAW. WE PASSED A LAW IN 2019 THAT ADDED THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

REQUIREMENT THAT HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION AND COOPERATIVE FEES BE PAID

BY THE SERVICER. AT THE TIME I, AND I THINK OTHERS, INTERPRETED THAT TO

INCLUDE CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATIONS, BUT IT SEEMS THAT THE INTERPRETATION

OF THE LAW IS MIXED AT BEST AND THERE DOES SEEM TO BE SOME CONFUSION.

AND SO WHAT THIS BILL WOULD DO WOULD BE TO MAKE SURE THAT

CONDOMINIUM COMMON CHARGES ARE INCLUDED IN THAT SECTION. AND THE

REAL WORLD IMPLICATION FOR FOLKS ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS THAT

WHEN THERE IS AN ABANDONED CONDOMINIUM, IT COULD BE IN A COMPLEX OF

SEVERAL HUNDRED CONDOMINIUMS, IT COULD BE IN A COMPLEX OF I HAVE AS

FEW AS, YOU KNOW, FIVE, SIX OR SEVEN-UNIT CONDOMINIUM COMPLEXES IN

MY DISTRICT. AND WHEN ONE GOES VACANT AND INTO THE FORECLOSURE

PROCESS, THE REST OF THE UNIT OWNERS HAVE TO PICK UP ANY OF THE COSTS

ASSOCIATED WITH THE MAINTENANCE OF THE PROPERTY. AND WHEN YOU HAVE

A VERY SMALL NUMBER OF CONDOMINIUM UNITS, OR EVEN, QUITE FRANKLY,

DOZENS, THAT BECOMES A REAL BURDEN ON CONDOMINIUM OWNERS THAT OWN

THE REST OF THEM AND COULD REALLY RESULT IN THEM PAYING HIGHER AND

HIGHER CONDOMINIUM CHARGES TO COVER THAT UNIT DURING THAT TIME. SO

THIS BILL SEEKS TO REMEDY THAT SITUATION, OR IN ACTUALITY I THINK IT SERVES

TO CLARIFY THE LAW THAT WAS PASSED IN 2019.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WILL YOU YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. ZEBROWSKI. THESE

CONDOMINIUM COMMON CHARGES, AM I CORRECT THAT THAT WOULD INCLUDE,

FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE CONDO HAD TENNIS COURTS OR SWIMMING POOLS OR

EXTENSIVE GROUNDS? I KNOW SOME CONDOS CATER TO THOSE WHO HAVE A

PARTICULAR PASSION FOR ALL OF IT. SO THOSE WOULD ALL BE INCLUDED IN THOSE

COMMON CHARGES, CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES. THE COMMON CHARGES

WOULD BE WHAT EACH UNIT OWNER IS CHARGED FOR THE OVERALL MAINTENANCE

OF THE-- OF THE COMPLEX. I WILL NOTE THAT IN THE EXISTING LANGUAGE IT

DOES SAY NEEDED TO MAINTAIN THE PROPERTY.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, CURRENTLY THESE

CONDOMINIUM COMMON CHARGES ARE A CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT, IF YOU

WILL, BETWEEN THE OWNER OF THE CONDO AND THE CONDO ASSOCIATION,

CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I GUESS CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENT

IS A FAIR WAY TO PUT IT. WE, OF COURSE, HAVE A SECTION OF LAW HERE IN

NEW YORK STATE THAT GOVERNS IT, SO IT'S NOT PURELY A PRIVATE CONTRACTUAL.

WE HAVE STANDARD LAWS AND THERE IS -- THERE ARE BYLAWS, THERE ARE DEED

RESTRICTIONS. SO I THINK CONTRACTUAL IS SOMEWHAT FAIR TO SAY. I DON'T

KNOW IF IT'S COMPLETELY -- FITS COMPLETELY WITHIN THAT DESCRIPTION.

MR. GOODELL: AM I CORRECT THAT THESE

CONDOMINIUMS ARE OPERATED TYPICALLY BY A BOARD OF DIRECTORS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. GOODELL: AND THE MEMBERS, THE OWNERS

ELECT THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES. THERE'S USUALLY A PROCESS

WHEN -- SOMETIMES IT'S TURNED OVER WITH THE SPONSOR, BUT YOU'RE CORRECT

GENERALLY.

MR. GOODELL: AND THE MEMBERS THEMSELVES THEN

CAN SERVE ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS PRESUMABLY?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THE -- THE UNIT OWNERS? YES.

MR. GOODELL: YES, UNIT OWNERS.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

MR. GOODELL: AND THE UNIT OWNERS CAN VOTE ON --

ON THE BUDGET FOR THE CONDO?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S A

REQUIREMENT IN THE CONDOMINIUM LAW OF THE STATE. I BELIEVE SOME

HAVE THAT AND SOME THE BUDGET IS PASSED JUST BY THE BOARD OF

(INAUDIBLE).

MR. GOODELL: NOW, OF COURSE DURING THE

FORECLOSURE PROCESS AND UNTIL THERE'S BEEN AN AUCTION AND THE DEED

ACTUALLY TRANSFERS, THE BANK DOESN'T ACTUALLY OWN THE UNIT, RIGHT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: BUT WOULD YOU ENVISION THAT EVEN

THOUGH THE BANK DOESN'T OWN THE UNIT, THE BANK WOULDN'T HAVE THE

OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE FOR CONDO MEMBERS ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OR

ATTEND AS AN OWNER?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: NO, I DON'T -- I DON'T THINK SO.

MR. GOODELL: SO WE WOULD ENVISION THAT EVEN

THOUGH THE BANK DOESN'T OWN IT, CAN'T VOTE FOR THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS,

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, HAS NO CONTRACTUAL OR DEED

RELATIONSHIP WHATSOEVER WITH THE CONDO, WE STILL WANT THEM TO JUST

PAY?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, WHAT I THINK WE DO IN THIS

ENTIRE SECTION OF LAW IS RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S CERTAIN KEY THINGS THAT

HAVE TO HAPPEN, WHETHER IT'S WITH MAINTENANCE OF THE PROPERTY,

PROPERTY TAXES, THOSE TYPE OF THINGS. AND WE ALSO DON'T GIVE AUTHORITY

TO THE BANK TO VOTE FOR THE MAYOR OF A VILLAGE OR THE SUPERVISOR OF A

TOWN, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE PROPERTY. SO I THINK BY

PUTTING THIS IN THIS SECTION OF LAW, WE RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S CERTAIN

THINGS THAT THE LOAN SERVICER HAS TO DO IN THE BETTERMENT OF THE

COMMUNITY-AT-LARGE. YOU CAN'T ALLOW THE PROPERTY, I BELIEVE, IN ONE

SECTION OF THIS SECTION OF LAW TO -- TO MAINTAIN A NUISANCE. YOU NEED TO

SECURE THE -- THE INGRESS AND EGRESS OF THE PROPERTY, I BELIEVE. WE HAVE

A SECTION, YOU HAVE TO BOARD UP APPROPRIATELY THE WINDOWS AND THINGS

LIKE THAT. AND THEN WAY DOWN IN SECTION K WE ADDED A HOMEOWNERS

ASSOCIATION OR COOPERATIVE FEES IN 2019, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS AN

OVERSIGHT TO ADD THAT WITHOUT HAVING CONDOMINIUM COMMON CHARGES

IN THERE.

MR. GOODELL: VERY GOOD. THANK YOU FOR THAT

EXPLANATION, MR. ZEBROWSKI.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS CONCEPT THAT

BECAUSE WE GO TO THE BANK THE BANK HAS -- AND THEY ARE ABLE TO CASH

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

OUR CHECKS WITHIN REASON THAT THE BANK HAS LOTS OF MONEY THAT THEY CAN

USE TO SPEND. AND WHILE THEY MAY HAVE A LOT OF OUR MONEY BECAUSE

THE BANK'S MONEY ALL COMES FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE INVESTED IN THE

BANK IN SAVINGS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, THEY, LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS,

HAS TO OPERATE. AND THEY HAVE TO OPERATE IN A PROFITABLE MANNER OR

THEY GO OUT OF BUSINESS. AND SO WHEN WE TURN AND WE SAY TO THE

BANKS, HEY, EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T OWN THIS CONDO, EVEN THOUGH YOU

DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHT TO USE THE CONDO, EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T HAVE ANY

RIGHT TO USE THE POOL OR THE TENNIS COURT OR THE GOLF COURSE THAT'S

ASSOCIATED WITH THE CONDO, EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T HAVE A VOTE ON WHO

IS ON THE CONDO BOARD OF DIRECTORS, YOU HAVE TO PAY THE CONDO FEES.

AND OF COURSE THE BANK HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO PASS THOSE FEES ON IN

TERMS OF HIGHER INTEREST RATES AND HIGHER UNDERWRITING. AND SO THE NET

EFFECT IS IT IS HARDER TO GET A LOAN, AND THE COST OF THE LOAN HAS TO GO UP.

AND OF COURSE THIS IS FUNDAMENTALLY UNFAIR BECAUSE THE BANK DIDN'T

NEGOTIATE WHAT THOSE CONDO FEES WOULD BE. THEY DIDN'T SIGN ANY

CONTRACT. THEY DIDN'T AGREE TO ANY OF IT. THEY JUST AGREED TO LEND

MONEY AT THE REQUEST OF A CUSTOMER SO THAT THE CUSTOMER COULD BUY IT.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE SAYING IF THE BANK LENT YOU THE MONEY TO BUY A CAR,

THE BANK HAS TO PAY THE SERVICE STATION IF YOU DEFAULT ON YOUR LOAN ON

THE CAR. OR THE BANK HAS TO PAY, YOU KNOW, FOR YOUR INSURANCE ON YOUR

CAR OR THE REGISTRATION ON YOUR CAR. NO, THE BANK LENT YOU THE MONEY TO

BUY THE CAR. IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOU TO PAY FOR YOUR OWN

MAINTENANCE, YOUR OWN REPAIRS, YOUR OWN INSURANCE, YOUR OWN

EXPENSES. AND THE SAME SHOULD APPLY HERE. SO WHEN THIS CAME UP

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

EARLIER -- AS MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED IT CAME UP IN THE CONTEXT OF A

HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION -- THERE WERE 44 NO VOTES ON THAT BECAUSE WE

RECOGNIZED IT WOULD HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON CONSUMERS WHO WANT

TO GET A LOAN. THAT IT PUT THE BANK IN A POSITION OF BEING FORCED TO PAY

FOR FEES THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OF AND NEVER NEGOTIATE AND HAVE NO --

REALLY SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY OBLIGATION TO PAY. AND TO SUGGEST THAT IT'S A

GREAT THING FOR A BANK TO HAVE TO PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S ENJOYMENT OF A

TENNIS COURT OR A POOL OR ANY OF THE OTHER AMENITIES I THINK IS -- GOES

WELL BEYOND WHAT WE'VE EVER EXPECTED BANKS TO PAY IN TERMS OF

PROTECTING THE VALUE OF THEIR ASSET.

AND FOR THAT REASON I WILL BE RECOMMENDING AGAINST

TO MY COLLEAGUES. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AND AGAIN, I ALWAYS

APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS FROM MY COLLEAGUE. THANK YOU, MR.

ZEBROWSKI.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. MONTESANO.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MONTESANO: MR. SPEAKER, ONCE AGAIN I FIND

MYSELF ON THE OPPOSITE END OF MY COLLEAGUE'S ARGUMENT, AND OF COURSE

I HAVE TO DEFEND MY FRIEND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE. SO IT -- YOU

KNOW, MANY YEARS OF DOING REAL ESTATE WORK AND DOING A LOT OF COURT-

ORDERED FORECLOSURE SALES AND, YOU KNOW, AS A REFEREE AND DOING

HEARINGS FOR SURPLUS MONEY AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. THE BANKS NEVER

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

LOSE A DOLLAR AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, BECAUSE WHATEVER THEY LAY OUT IN

A FORECLOSURE PROCEEDING THEY RECOUP AT THE TIME OF SALE. SO WHEN I

ANNOUNCE HOW MUCH THE BID PRICE STARTS AT, WHAT THE KNOCKDOWN PRICE

IS, IT INCORPORATES ALL THE MONEY THAT THEY LAID OUT; PRINCIPAL, INTEREST

UP TO THE DAY OF THE SALE, RIGHT, MONEY THEY LAID OUT FOR INSURANCE,

MONEY THEY LAID OUT FOR TAXES, MONEY THEY LAID OUT FOR REPAIRS, FOR

BOARDING UP, FOR MAINTENANCE. ALL THAT IS INCLUDED IN THAT SALE PRICE.

IN ADDITION, WHEN THEY PAY THE INSURANCE THEY BUY IT AT A HIGHER RATE

AND THAT COST GETS PASSED ON, TOO. SO THAT MONEY IS RECOUPED AT THE

TIME OF THE SALE. NOW, CONDOMINIUMS ARE CONSIDERED REAL PROPERTY, SO

THEY SHOULDN'T BE TREATED ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN HOUSES THAT STAND ON THEIR

OWN BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY DOING THAT FOR HOUSES THAT STAND ON THEIR

OWN. THEY'RE PAYING CARRYING CHARGES, THEY'RE PAYING MAINTENANCE

CHARGES. AND WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN YOU HAVE CONDOMINIUMS GOING TO

FORECLOSURE AND THE COMMON CHARGES OR MAINTENANCE CHARGES ARE NOT

BEING PAID, THAT HAS A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON THE ADJOINING PROPERTY

OWNERS THAT HAVE THEIR HOUSES THERE. AND IT ALSO HAS A DETRIMENTAL

EFFECT ON THE UPKEEP OF THE CONDOMINIUM COMMON GROUNDS WHICH

EVENTUALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY'VE GOT TO UP THE ANTE AND CHARGES TO

THE EXISTING PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE PAYING THE BILL. SO I THINK IT'S A

MATTER OF HOW, YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT IT. AND OF COURSE NONE OF US,

INCLUDING MYSELF, WANT TO PENALIZE BANKS OR HAVE THEM INCUR

ADDITIONAL EXPENSES AGAINST WHAT THEIR OVERHEAD IS OR WHAT THEIR

EXPECTATIONS ARE. BUT I WOULD BEG TO DIFFER. I BELIEVE THEY KNOW

EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE OBLIGATIONS ARE. THEY KNOW WHAT THEIR EXPOSURE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

IS, AND IT'S ALL BUILT INTO THAT NUMBER WHEN THERE'S A FORECLOSURE. ARE

THERE TIMES THAT THEY MAY HAVE TO UNDERWRITE A LOSS OR SELL IT OFF AT A

LOSS? OF COURSE. THAT'S PART OF WHAT THEY DO IN BANKING. CREDIT CARD

COMPANIES HAVE TO WRITE OFF LOSSES, ESPECIALLY WHEN PEOPLE DIE AND

THEY CAN'T COLLECT ON THE CREDIT CARD. YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S ALL FACTORED

INTO THE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS THAT THEY DO. AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY

RECOUP IT ALL. SOMETIMES A LITTLE BIT OF A LOSS WHICH THEY'RE MORE THAN

HAPPY TO WRITE OFF AGAINST THEIR GROSS INCOME EVERY YEAR.

SO -- SO, YOU KNOW, WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENCES OF

OPINION EVEN THOUGH I'M ON THIS SIDE OF AISLE. SO I WOULD THINK THAT

THIS BILL I'M IN FAVOR OF, AND I WOULD ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THAT

WHEN THEY CAST THEIR VOTES. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 4620. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THEIR CONFERENCE

POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS. BUT CERTAINLY, WE'LL HAVE AT

LEAST ONE MEMBER, IF NOT MORE, VOTING IN FAVOR OF IT AND I WOULD

ENCOURAGE THEM TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY ON THE FLOOR HERE OR BY CALLING THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS WONDERFUL PIECE OF LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT

WOULD DECIDE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE WILL BE HAPPY TO ENSURE THEIR VOTE IS

PROPERLY RECORDED.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. AS I MENTIONED, I'LL BE

VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. I WOULD POINT OUT TO MY COLLEAGUES THAT THE

REAL PROPERTY LAW ARTICLE 9(B) WHICH CODIFIES THE CONDOMINIUM ACT

ALSO ALLOWS CONDOMINIUMS TO IMPOSE A LIEN ON A CONDO UNIT FOR UNPAID

COMMON CHARGES. AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT WHEN THAT UNIT IS SOLD,

ANY UNPAID CONDO CHARGES ARE THEN RECOUPED BY THE CONDOMINIUM.

AND SO IT'S NOT JUST THE BANK THAT CAN RECOUP ALL THESE EXPENSES. BUT

CERTAINLY, THE CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION ITSELF HAS SPECIAL STATUTORY

PROTECTIONS. WHAT THIS BILL DOES IT SAYS EVEN THOUGH THE CONDO CAN

PROTECT ITSELF WITH A LIEN, WE'RE GOING TO FORCE THIS EXPENSE ON TO A BANK

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

THAT WAS NEVER INVOLVED IN CREATING THE LIEN OR PAYING THE LIEN OR

NEGOTIATING A LIEN OR HAVING ANY VOICE IN THE LIEN. AND THAT'S THE

DIFFERENCE I THINK IN THIS BILL BETWEEN WHAT IS THE CURRENT LAW AND

WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SPEAKER. PLEASE

RECORD MY COLLEAGUE MR. SCHMITT IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED. THANK

YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

COULD PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MRS. GUNTHER IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS

PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 23, CALENDAR NO. 180, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05551, CALENDAR NO.

180, ENGLEBRIGHT, MONTESANO, SOLAGES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PERSONAL

PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING CERTAIN PROVISIONS IN RETAIL

LEASE AGREEMENTS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ENGLEBRIGHT, AN

EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, SIR.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

THIS MEASURE WOULD AMEND THE PERSONAL PROPERTY LAW TO PROHIBIT THE

LEASEE OF A MOTOR VEHICLE FROM BEING CHARGED A TURN-IN FEE AT THE LEASE

EXPIRATION IF THE TURN-IN FEE WAS SOLELY FOR ADMINISTRATIVE, HANDLING OR

CLERICAL CHARGES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ENGLEBRIGHT, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I YIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ENGLEBRIGHT

YIELDS, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. MR. ENGLEBRIGHT,

WOULD THIS APPLY TO EXISTING LEASE AGREEMENTS THAT HAVE THAT CLAUSE?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I BELIEVE THAT THIS WOULD BE

PROSPECTIVE. I DON'T BELIEVE IT WOULD REASSEMBLE EXISTING CONTRACTS.

MR. GOODELL: AND AS YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE

CURRENT LEASES ARE REQUIRED BY LAW. WE HAVE -- THE STATUTE'S BEEN

AROUND I THINK SINCE 1994 IN THE MOTOR VEHICLE LEASING ACT THAT

REQUIRES ANY TURN-IN FEES TO BE DISCLOSED. SO, A LEASING COMPANY

WOULD BE ABLE TO COMPLY IF THIS IS ADOPTED BY IMPOSING THOSE FEES

UPFRONT RATHER THAN WAITING AT THE END?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: WELL, THIS IS NOT A -- A HIDDEN

CHARGE RIGHT NOW, BUT IT IS OFTEN A FORGOTTEN CHARGE BECAUSE IT IS IN THE

MYRIAD OF THINGS THAT ONE CONSIDERS WHEN ENTERING INTO A CONTRACT TO

LEASE A CAR. THE LOOK AHEAD TO THE END OF THE LEASE IS PROBABLY NOT

FOREMOST IN THE MIND OF THE INDIVIDUAL ENTERING INTO THE LEASE. AND

THEN THERE'S OFTEN THE -- THE FEELING OF BETRAYAL SOMEHOW. IT'S NOT

(INAUDIBLE), BUT IT IS THE HUMAN EMOTION TO FEEL THAT THEY'VE BEEN TAKEN

ADVANTAGE OF AT THE END OF THE LEASE WHEN THEY'RE PRESENTED WITH A -- A

TURN-IN CHARGE. IN FACT, THAT'S UNFORTUNATE BUT WE CAN CORRECT IT BY

PASSING THIS MEASURE BECAUSE THE -- THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD BE

ELIGIBLE FOR CONSIDERATION WOULD BE SOMETHING REALLY EGREGIOUS, LIKE

SOMETHING'S STOLEN FROM THE CAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT IF THE CAR

IS TURNED BACK UNDAMAGED AND DOES NOT EXCEED THE MILEAGE ALLOWED, IT

WOULD BE A CLEAN BREAK AT THE END OF THE LEASE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. ENGLEBRIGHT.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MR. GOODELL: ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: AS MY COLLEAGUE NOTED, THERE ARE A

NUMBER OF CHARGES THAT CAN BE IMPOSED AT THE END OF A LEASE TERM THAT

WE ALL EXPECT. MANY LEASES, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE MILEAGE LIMITATIONS,

AND SO IF YOU BRING IN A LEASED CAR THAT'S WELL IN EXCESS OF THE MILEAGE

LIMITATIONS, YOU PAY AN EXTRA FEE. YOU EXPECT THAT, AND THAT'S

REASONABLE. AND LIKEWISE, IF THE CONDITION OF THE VEHICLE IS -- IS NOT UP

TO PAR. I MEAN, IF YOU SIDESWIPED SOMEBODY AND YOU TURN IN A LEASED

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

VEHICLE, THEY'RE GOING TO CHARGE YOU. AND OF COURSE WE ALL KNOW THAT

WHEN YOU TURN IN THE VEHICLE THE DEALERSHIP OR THE LEASING COMPANY

INCURS CERTAIN EXPENSES INCLUDING INSPECTING THE VEHICLE, CLEANING IT.

YOU KNOW, PREPPING FOR RESALE, RELOCATING IT TO ANOTHER FACILITY AND ALL

THOSE NORMAL ROUTINE ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES. SO SEVERAL YEARS AGO

THE NEW YORK STATE MOTOR VEHICLE LEASING ACT WAS ADOPTED BY THE

STATE LEGISLATURE, AND THAT WAS THE RESULT OF EXTENSIVE AND FAIRLY

LENGTHY NEGOTIATIONS OF BALANCING THE INTERESTS OF CONSUMERS AND THE

INTERESTS OF LEASING COMPANIES. AND AS PART OF THAT EXTENSIVE

NEGOTIATION IT WAS AGREED THAT CERTAIN EXPENSES COULD BE PAID AT THE

END, SUCH AS MILEAGE OVERAGE, THE CONDITION OF THE VEHICLE AND THE

NORMAL ROUTINE ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES. THIS BILL ATTEMPTS TO

BASICALLY GO BACK ON THAT NEGOTIATION, IF YOU WILL, AND CHANGE IT BY

SAYING ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES AT THE END CANNOT BE IN -- CHARGED AT

THE END. WHICH MEANS THAT THOSE EXPENSES WOULD HAVE TO BE CHARGED

UP FRONT, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE IT INCREASES THE

UPFRONT CHARGES OF THE LEASE RATHER THAN ALLOWING THE CONSUMER TO PLAN

FOR THEM TOWARDS THE END.

THE OTHER CHALLENGE IS THAT ADMINISTRATIVE FEES ARE NOT

ALWAYS CLEAR. WHAT'S ADMINISTRATIVE AND WHAT IS NOT. SO FOR EXAMPLE,

IS CLEANING THE CAR AND GETTING IT READY, DOING THE PAPERWORK, THE TITLE

WORK, IS THAT ALL ADMINISTRATIVE OR IS THAT PART OF THE TURN-IN? SO FOR

THESE REASONS MY COLLEAGUES IN THE PAST HAVE GENERALLY OPPOSED THIS

LEGISLATION. BUT WE ALSO HAVE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT BECAUSE AS THE

SPONSOR CORRECTLY NOTED, SOMETIMES CONSUMERS FORGET WHAT THEY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

AGREED TO PAY WHEN IT COMES TIME TO PAY IT. AND SO CERTAINLY HAVING

THE CONSUMER PAY ALL OF THESE UPFRONT COSTS RATHER THAN DELAY IT WILL

ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM OF A FORGETFUL CONSUMER WHO FORGETS WHAT HE

PROMISED TO PAY, BUT IT IS A DIFFERENCE THAT MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY OTHER

MEANING OTHER THAN INCREASING THE UPFRONT COST. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. PERRY.

MR. PERRY: THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT, WOULD YOU YIELD FOR A QUESTION?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ENGLEBRIGHT, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I YIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ENGLEBRIGHT

YIELDS, SIR.

MR. PERRY: THANK YOU, STEVE. WHAT INSPIRED YOU

TO PUSH THIS LEGISLATION TO PASS?

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY

DISTRICT WHO DRIVE CARS, AND WHICH IS LIKE EVERYBODY OF AGE, PRETTY

MUCH. AND MANY OF THEM WERE VERY UNHAPPY LEARNING THAT THE FINE

PRINT THAT THEY DIDN'T READ CLOSELY AT THE TIME THAT THEY ENTERED INTO THE

LEASE TRANSLATED INTO A SENSE OF BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF AT THE CLOSE OF

THE LEASE. THEY BROUGHT IT TO MY ATTENTION AND I'M ATTEMPTING TO

CORRECT THE TENDENCY OF THAT TYPE OF SENSE OF VICTIMIZATION THROUGH THIS

MEASURE.

MR. PERRY: WELL, YOU SEEM A LITTLE NERVOUS TALKING

100

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

TO ME, STEVE. BUT I'M STILL YOUR COLLEAGUE.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: I'M NOT PARTICULARLY NERVOUS.

I'M JUST -- I'M JUST WONDERING IF YOU HAVE SOME QUESTION ABOUT THIS THAT

I MIGHT BE ABLE TO ANSWER.

MR. PERRY: WELL, YOU DID ANSWER THE QUESTION.

THANK YOU, STEVE.

MR. ENGLEBRIGHT: YOU'RE QUITE WELCOME.

MR. PERRY: AND I JUST WANT TO CONGRATULATE YOU FOR

BRINGING THIS. I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION. I WILL BE

TURNING A CAR IN SHORTLY, AND IF WE COULD GET THIS SIGNED INTO LAW IT WILL

PROBABLY SAVE ME SOME MONEY. AND I'M SURE ALL MY COLLEAGUES HERE

LIKE TO SAVE MONEY, ESPECIALLY MONEY THAT YOU DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD

BE PAYING IN THE FIRST PLACE. ESPECIALLY MONEY THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY

BECAUSE IT'S CATEGORIZED IN A MANNER THAT DOESN'T EVEN EXPLAIN TO YOU

BEFOREHAND THAT YOU WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS PAYMENT AT SOME

LATER TIME. AND THEN I UNDERSTAND THAT SOMETIMES THAT MONEY IS

OFFERED AS AN INCENTIVE. WE WILL NOT PAY THAT, WE WILL NOT CHARGE YOU

THIS IF YOU DO THAT. SO IT DOES RAISE QUESTIONS. AND WE LIKE ALL

CONSUMERS, PEOPLE THAT I REPRESENT, THAT YOU REPRESENT, TO GET A FAIR

DEAL ALL THE TIME AND TO KNOW HOW FAIR IT IS.

SO I'M PLEASED TO SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION AND TO JOIN

YOU IN VOTING FOR ITS PASSAGE. AND I'M ALSO PLEASED TO HAVE THE

OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE WITH YOU OVER ALMOST 30 YEARS ON GOOD LEGISLATION,

CONSUMER PROTECTION TYPE OF LEGISLATION, WHICH IS WHAT WE TRY TO DO IN

THIS HOUSE. AND BEFORE I CAST MY VOTE, MR. SPEAKER, I'D JUST LIKE TO

101

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

TAKE THE PRIVILEGE AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES WHO

HAVE PUT UP WITH ME FOR THE PAST 30 -- ALMOST 30 YEARS AND SERVED WITH

ME, GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOME FUN WITH THEM. AND

ESPECIALLY FOR SERVING THE PEOPLE OF THE 58TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT THAT I

REPRESENT. I'LL REMAIN ON THE ROSTER UNTIL SOMETIME TOMORROW, BUT THIS

WILL BE MY LAST PARTICIPATION IN A DEBATE IN THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY.

AND I HAVE HAD HONOR AND PRIVILEGE SERVING THE PEOPLE OF MY DISTRICT

AND THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK. I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT, THANK

YOU FOR BEING GOOD COLLEAGUES. AND MY BEST WISHES AS YOU CONTINUE

THE GOOD WORK OF LEGISLATORS WHO WORK FOR THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK.

THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR.

PERRY. I HAVE ENJOYED ALL 30 OF OUR YEARS TOGETHER, BELIEVE THAT. THANK

YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 5551. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THEIR CONFERENCE

POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. I APPRECIATE MR.

PERRY'S COMMENTS AND WISH HIM THE VERY BEST. FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT

102

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

AWARE OF IT, IN JAMAICA THE APPROPRIATE SALUTATION FOR THE EMBASSADOR

IS MR. EXCELLENCE OR YOUR EXCELLENCE. IT'S SOMETHING TO JUST KEEP IN

THE BACK OF YOUR MIND IN YOU'RE IN JAMAICA AND VISIT MR. PERRY. SADLY

FOR MR. PERRY, THIS BILL WON'T SAVE HIM ANY MONEY.

(LAUGHTER)

AND FOR THAT AND OTHER REASONS, THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO IT. ALTHOUGH IF HIS EXCELLENCY

NEEDS SOME HELP I'D BE GLAD TO HELP. BUT THERE WILL BE UNDOUBTEDLY

MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WHO WANT TO SUPPORT IT. BUT

IN GENERAL, BASED ON PAST VOTES THE MAJORITY OF THE REPUBLICANS WILL BE

OPPOSED. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT CERTAINLY ARE ENCOURAGED TO CALL THE

MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE OR VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT ON THE FLOOR.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED. THANK

YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN

CONCURRENCE WITH HIS EXCELLENCY AS THIS IS A CONSUMER-FRIENDLY PIECE

OF LEGISLATION AND WE WILL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF IT. HOWEVER, SHOULD

THERE BE COLLEAGUES THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION, THEY SHOULD

FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE'LL BE HAPPY TO

RECORD THEIR VOTE. AND I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING HIS EXCELLENCY IN

JAMAICA AT SOME POINT.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

103

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. IF WE CAN CONTINUE OUR WORK ON THE DEBATE LIST, WE WANT TO

CALL ON CALENDAR NO. 202 BY MR. STECK AND CALENDAR NO. 223 BY MS.

PAULIN. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

202, PAGE 26, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06152-A, CALENDAR

NO. 202, STECK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO

REQUIRING THE MODIFICATION OF RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS PRIOR TO THE SALE OF

REAL PROPERTY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN -- AN EXPLANATION

IS REQUESTED, MR. STECK.

MR. STECK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS IS A BILL

THAT REMOVES ILLEGAL RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS FROM DEEDS. AND WHILE

SOME OF MY LEARNED COLLEAGUES IN THE CHAMBER MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH

THE CASE LAW THAT MAKES THESE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS ILLEGAL, THE PUBLIC-

AT-LARGE IS NOT, AND WE WOULD BE IN A FAR BETTER POSITION IF THESE

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RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS WERE NOT PRESENT AT ALL. AND SO OBVIOUSLY, THAT IS

-- THAT IS WHY WE INTRODUCED THIS LEGISLATION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. STECK, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MR. STECK: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. STECK YIELDS, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. STECK. AS YOU

POINTED OUT, THERE ARE CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN STRUCK DOWN

BY THE COURT AS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND TYPICALLY THOSE THAT RELATE TO RACE,

COLOR, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. NATIONALITY HAS CERTAINLY BEEN STRUCK

DOWN BEFORE. ANCESTRY HAS BEEN STRUCK DOWN. SO THIS BILL IS NOT REALLY

NEEDED FOR THE ONES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN STRUCK DOWN BECAUSE THE

COURTS HAVE ALREADY RULED ON THAT. BUT MY QUESTION IS THIS: SOME OF

THESE RESTRICTIONS HAVE NOT BEEN STRUCK DOWN; AM I CORRECT?

MR. STECK: I DON'T HAVE AN ENCYCLOPEDIC

KNOWLEDGE OF EVERY COVENANT IN REAL PROPERTY THAT HAS BEEN STRUCK

DOWN, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE FACE OF IT, CERTAINLY IF THEY HAVEN'T BEEN

THEY SHOULD BE.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO THERE ARE SOME -- SOME

GROUPS THAT ARE LIKE RETIREMENT HOMES. THIS IS MORE COMMON PERHAPS

IN FLORIDA THAN IN NEW YORK, BUT THERE ARE CERTAINLY RETIREMENT

COMMUNITIES WHERE ONE OF THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS MIGHT BE THAT

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

YOU'RE OVER A CERTAIN AGE. AGE 55, FOR EXAMPLE. THAT TYPE OF

RETIREMENT COMMUNITY WITH THE RESTRICTION THAT YOU BE OVER AGE 55,

THAT -- THAT'S NOT ILLEGAL, IS IT?

MR. STECK: THAT'S NOT ADDRESSED IN THIS BILL SO IT'S

OFF TOPIC.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, YOU DO -- YOU DO MENTION

AGE, DON'T YOU?

MR. STECK: I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.

MR. GOODELL: THEN SOME RETIREMENT

COMMUNITIES --

MR. STECK: PRECISELY FOR THE REASON YOU CITED.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. AND SOME RETIREMENT

COMMUNITIES HAVE RESTRICTIONS DESIGNED PRIMARILY -- I MEAN, BECAUSE

THEY'RE RETIREES, THEY DON'T WANT A WHOLE BUNCH OF KIDS MAKING NOISE.

SO WOULD A RESTRICTION THAT SAYS YOU CAN ONLY LIVE IN THIS RETIREMENT

COMMUNITY IF YOU DON'T HAVE KIDS BE STRUCK DOWN UNDER THIS BILL?

MR. STECK: IT DOESN'T SAY THAT.

MR. GOODELL: BUT IT DOES MAKE DISCRIMINATION

BASED ON -- ON FAMILIAL STATUS, RIGHT? THAT -- THAT'S --

MR. STECK: WELL, I THINK THAT'S -- THAT RELATES TO THE

TYPE OF FAMILY THAT YOU'RE A PART OF, NOT NECESSARILY TO WHETHER YOU

HAVE CHILDREN OR NOT.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. THERE ARE SOME

ORGANIZATIONS WHERE THEY HAVE A, YOU KNOW, HOUSING UNIT, RETIREMENT

OR OTHERWISE THAT REALLY CATERS TO A CERTAIN RELIGION. MAYBE IT'S ALL

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

CATHOLIC OR A CERTAIN RELIGIOUS ORDER, FOR EXAMPLE. THAT WOULD BE

STRUCK BY THIS, TOO, RIGHT, SINCE IT PROHIBITS ANY RESTRICTIONS BASED ON

RELIGION?

MR. STECK: MY GRANDMOTHER LIVED IN B'NAI B'RITH

APARTMENTS IN ALBANY AFTER LEAVING THE CITY OF NEW YORK, AND THERE

WERE NOT RESTRICTIONS ON THE BASIS OF RELIGION. SO I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS

SOMETHING THAT THE BILL WOULD ENVISION OCCURRING.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. NOW CERTAINLY A LOT OF OUR

COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS HAVE SAME-SEX

BUILDINGS. THAT'S NOT AT ALL UNCOMMON. WOULD THIS IN ANY WAY AFFECT

A RESTRICTION THAT MIGHT BE IN A CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTION THAT'S GIVEN TO A

COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY FOR HOUSING FOR WOMEN, FOR EXAMPLE?

MR. STECK: THIS RELATES TO DEEDS HAVING RESTRICTIVE

COVENANTS. YOU'RE GOING WAY OFF TOPIC INTO A DISCUSSION OF

EDUCATIONAL POLICY, WHICH IS NOT ADDRESSED IN THIS BILL.

MR. GOODELL: BUT IT WOULD STRIKE DOWN A DEED

PROVISION IN A GIFT FROM A DONOR WHERE THE DEED SAYS THIS PROPERTY IS TO

BE USED FOR WOMEN'S HOUSING, CORRECT?

MR. STECK: IT COULD, IF THERE WERE SUCH A DEED IN

QUESTION. BUT IT DOES NOT INVALIDATE HOUSING FOR WOMEN. MY DAUGHTER

ATTENDED A COLLEGE WHERE ALL THE HOUSING IS FOR WOMEN BECAUSE IT'S A

SINGLE-SEX COLLEGE. SO, NO, THAT IS NOT PART OF THIS BILL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. AND LAST, THIS BILL

REQUIRES THAT ANY OF THESE RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE ALREADY IN A DOCUMENT BE

REMOVED BY THE SELLER. SO IF THE SELLER RECEIVES A DEED THAT HAS A

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

RESTRICTIVE COVENANT, WHICH ASSUMING THAT ABSENT THIS BILL THAT

RESTRICTIVE COVENANT IS VALID, THEN THE SELLER DOESN'T HAVE THE LEGAL

AUTHORITY TO CONVEY A DEED WITHOUT THAT RESTRICTION, CORRECT? I MEAN,

WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT REAL PROPERTY OWNERSHIP AS BEING -- SOMETIMES

THEY USE IT AS A BUNDLE OF STICKS -- YOU HAVE ALL THE SEPARATE OWNERSHIP

CHARACTERISTICS, AND THE CURRENT OWNER NEVER GOT THAT -- THAT RIGHT, HOW

CAN THEY TRANSFER IT? AND WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT, BY THE WAY -- JUST

SO WE'RE CLEAR -- WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THOSE SITUATIONS THAT AREN'T

ALREADY BANNED.

MR. STECK: SO THE QUESTION WAS EXTREMELY

CONFUSING, BUT I THINK I ADDRESSED IT IN MY INTRODUCTORY COMMENTS,

WHICH IS THAT THE PURPOSE IS NOT TO ASSUME THAT EVERYONE WHO'S

RECEIVING THE DEED -- AND NOT EVERYBODY WOULD BE REPRESENTED BY

COUNSEL AT A CLOSING -- NOT -- AND EVEN IF THEY WERE, THE -- ANYONE WHO

IS RECEIVING A DEED SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY IMPRESSION THAT A RESTRICTIVE

COVENANT OF THIS NATURE, WHICH IS INCLUDED IN SUCH A DEED, WOULD BE

LEGAL AND ENFORCEABLE. AND WE DON'T WANT TO PRESUME THAT THESE

PEOPLE ACQUIRING PROPERTY HAVE AN ENCYCLOPEDIC KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THE

VARIOUS RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS THAT HAVE BEEN DECLARED UNLAWFUL. SO

WHILE MY LEARNED COLLEAGUE MAY KNOW THESE THINGS, THE AVERAGE

PERSON DOES NOT.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I

APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, MR. STECK.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: SO AS MY COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT

DIRECTLY, RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS THAT HAVE NO -- NO JUSTIFICATION AND ARE

DISCRIMINATORY HAVE ALREADY BEEN STRUCK DOWN. AND EVERYONE KNOWS

THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE A RESTRICTIVE COVENANT BASED ON RACE, FOR EXAMPLE,

OR ANY OTHER PROTECTED CLASS. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT. AND EVERYBODY

KNOWS THAT. IF THERE'S ANYONE THAT THINKS THAT THEY CAN HAVE A DEED

RESTRICTION THAT RESTRICTS OWNERSHIP BY RACE OR NATIONAL ORIGIN OR -- OR

SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEY'RE LIVING IN A DIFFERENT TIME AND A DIFFERENT

ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE, I THINK. SO THIS BILL TAKES THAT CONCEPT WHICH HAS

BEEN APPLIED ALREADY IN MANY CONTEXTS AND IT -- AND IT SWEEPS IT WITH A

MUCH BROADER BRUSH TO INCLUDE THINGS LIKE NATIONAL ORIGIN OR RELIGION OR

SEX OR FAMILIAL STATUS, AND IN THE PROCESS IMPEDES ON WHAT ARE

GENERALLY CONSIDERED VALID RESTRICTIONS FOR RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES, FOR

EXAMPLE. AND THERE ARE SOME IN OUR STATE WHERE THEY EXPECT YOU, IF

YOU'RE LIVING IN A SPECIALIZED RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY, TO SHARE SOME OF

THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. OR FRATERNAL ORGANIZATIONS. FOR EXAMPLE, IN MY

COUNTY WE HAVE THE VIKINGS. IT'S A FRATERNAL ORGANIZATION THAT OWNS A

LOT OF LAND, AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME SCANDINAVIAN HERITAGE IN ORDER

TO JOIN. IT'S NOT JUST THE VIKINGS, BUT WE HAVE OTHER FRATERNAL

ORGANIZATIONS FOR, YOU KNOW, IRISHMEN AND ITALIANS AND OTHER GROUPS.

AND THOSE FRATERNAL ORGANIZATIONS SAY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO BE A

MEMBER YOU HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST SOME -- SOME CORRELATION TO THAT

FRATERNAL ORDER. ALSO, IN MY NEW DISTRICT ARE THE SENECA INDIANS. AND

YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU CAN'T OWN LAND IN THE SENECA NATION UNLESS

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

YOU'RE RECOGNIZED AS A SENECA NATION MEMBER. SO NON-INDIANS CANNOT

OWN LAND. THIS WOULD BE STRUCK BY THIS BILL. AND I THINK FOR MANY

REASONS THIS IS WHY REPUBLICANS IN BOTH THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE AND

IN RULES WERE UNANIMOUSLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THE COURTS

HAVE ALREADY STRUCK OUT RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS IN THOSE AREAS WHERE IT'S

INAPPROPRIATE, BUT WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS ARE

STILL APPROPRIATE IN MANY OTHER SITUATIONS. AND THIS SHOULD BE AN ISSUE

ADDRESSED BY THE COURTS ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS AND NOT BY BROAD-

BRUSH LEGISLATION.

THANK YOU, SIR. AND THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE MR.

STECK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER PERRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON A.6152-A. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES

TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THEIR CONFERENCE POSITION IS

REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, YOUR EXCELLENCY. THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED, BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT

THE BILL ARE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED TO VOTE IN FAVOR ON THE FLOOR OR BY

CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER PERRY: MS. SILLITTI.

MS. SILLITTI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD

LIKE TO REMIND MY COLLEAGUES THAT THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. MAJORITY

MEMBERS WILL BE RECORDED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. IF THERE ARE ANY

EXCEPTIONS, I ASK MAJORITY MEMBERS TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S

OFFICE AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED. I WILL THEN ANNOUNCE YOUR

NAME ACCORDINGLY.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER PERRY: MS. GIGLIO TO EXPLAIN

HER VOTE.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. ALTHOUGH I

DO UNDERSTAND WHY THE SPONSOR IS PUTTING THIS LEGISLATION FORWARD, ON

LONG ISLAND WE HAVE A DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES IN THAT WE HAVE DEEDED

RESTRICTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO WETLANDS, WHEN IT COMES TO

RIGHT-OF-WAYS, WHEN IT COMES TO CLEARING LIMITS ON PROPERTIES THAT ARE

IN THE DEEDS TO ADVISE ANY FUTURE HOMEOWNER THAT THEY CANNOT JUST

CLEAR THAT WHOLE PROPERTY. OR THERE MAY BE A STREAM ON THE PROPERTY

THAT THEY CANNOT FILL IN. SO THOSE TYPE OF DEEDED RESTRICTIONS ARE VERY

POPULAR AND OFTEN USED IN LONG ISLAND, AS WELL AS DEEDED RIGHT-OF-WAYS

WITH ACCESS AND WHAT CAN TRAVEL OVER THOSE ROADWAYS.

SO FOR THOSE REASONS I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER PERRY: MR. STECK TO EXPLAIN

YOUR VOTE.

MR. STECK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

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MY VOTE VERY BRIEFLY. I DO CONCUR WITH MY COLLEAGUE THAT PEOPLE WHO

SUPPORT COVENANTS OF THIS KIND THAT ARE CLEARLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL WOULD

BE LIVING IN THE DARK AGES. BUT IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS IN THIS COUNTRY,

I THINK WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF UNEXPECTED ISSUES OF THIS KIND, AND

THEREFORE, I VOTE IN SUPPORT OF THE BILL TO STOP THESE THINGS FROM

HAPPENING.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER PERRY: MR. BURDICK TO

EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YEARS

BACK BEFORE I BEGAN PUBLIC SERVICE I WAS AN ATTORNEY WITH A NUMBER OF

TITLE INSURANCE COMPANIES. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAD TO

UNDERWRITE IS HOW THESE COVENANTS WERE VOIDED AGAINST PUBLIC POLICY.

THIS CLEANS UP A LOT OF THAT. THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FROM A SOCIAL

POLICY STANDPOINT AND FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT. AND I THANK THE

SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS BILL FORWARD AND WILL VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER PERRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

WE GO TO PAGE 28, CALENDAR NO. 223. THE CLERK WILL

READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06706, CALENDAR NO.

223, PAULIN, OTIS, GALEF, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE

LAW, IN RELATION TO TRANSFERS OF CABLE SYSTEMS.

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ACTING SPEAKER PERRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED.

MS. PAULIN: YES. THIS BILL WOULD REINSTATE AND

MAKE PERMANENT FOR PUBLIC INTEREST REVIEW STANDARD FOR REVIEWING

CABLE CORPORATION MERGERS OR ACQUISITIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER PERRY: MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

MR. PAULIN: YES.

MR. PALMESANO: NOW, AMY, I UNDERSTAND THE --

SOME OF THE INTENTIONS BEHIND THIS LEGISLATION. I JUST WANT TO FOCUS ON

SOME POINTS IF WE COULD. LIKE RIGHT NOW, DO OUR CABLE COMPANIES

OPERATE UNDER SEPARATE AND UNIQUE FRANCHISE THAT FOLLOW EXTENSIVE AND

STRICT FEDERAL AND STATE REQUIREMENTS IN ORDER TO OPERATE THEIR CABLE

SYSTEMS? THEY DO THAT RIGHT NOW, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: YES, THEY DO.

MR. PALMESANO: AND THESE ARE OFTEN -- THESE ARE

REALLY CAREFULLY NEGOTIATED FRANCHISE DOCUMENTS THAT REFLECT THE NEEDS

OF THE PROVIDERS AND THE COMMUNITIES THEY SERVE, AND THEY ALL MUST

RECEIVE PSC APPROVAL TO GO FORWARD, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. PALMESANO: SO, THERE'S AN EXISTING STATUTORY

FRAMEWORK THAT RECOGNIZES FRANCHISE TRANSFERS EXCEPT IN CIRCUMSTANCES

WHERE THE -- THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMISSION AND THE DEPARTMENT OF

PUBLIC SERVICE DETERMINED THE TRANSFER IS NOT IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST.

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THAT'S -- THAT'S HOW IT WORKS NOW, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: YES. I DON'T KNOW, ARE YOU AWARE THAT

THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION-REQUESTED BILL? BECAUSE THEY

BELIEVE THAT THE STANDARD, WHEN IT WAS SHIFTED TO THE -- BACK TO THE PSC

INSTEAD OF ON THE CABLE COMPANIES TO PROVE PUBLIC INTEREST THAT THE

PUBLIC INTEREST WAS -- WAS HURT.

MR. PALMESANO: YEAH, BECAUSE I -- MY

UNDERSTANDING IS OBVIOUSLY WHERE BEFORE THAT THE INTERESTS WOULD GO TO

THE PUBLIC SERVICE TO COVER -- MAKE THE DETERMINATION, BUT THIS

LEGISLATION WOULD PUT THE ONUS ON THE -- THE -- THE TRANSFER COMPANY TO

MAKE --

MS. PAULIN: THAT'S DURING THE APPLICATION TO MERGE

FOR -- TO -- OR TO TAKE OVER A SMALLER ENTITY, WHICH IS WHAT USUALLY WHAT

HAPPENS. BUT IF -- IF THERE'S A MERGER, EVEN IF TWO EQUAL COMPANIES

MERGE THAT THERE IS A REQUIREMENT TO SHOW THAT IT'S IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST

THAT WHEN A COMPANY TAKES OVER ANOTHER THAT THEY'RE NOT HARMING THE

CONSTITUENTS THAT THEY SERVE. AND BECAUSE WE KNOW HOW IMPORTANT

RIGHT NOW THINGS LIKE BROADBAND AND -- -

MR. PALMESANO: SURE.

MS. PAULIN: -- AND ISSUES THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT

CABLE COMPANIES PROVIDE, THAT WE WANT TO BE SURE THAT -- THAT OUR

CONSTITUENTS ARE NOT HARMED IN THAT MERGER. AND THAT'S WHY THE PSC

HAS ASKED FOR THIS LEGISLATION.

MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT. AND RIGHT NOW, THOUGH,

WE HAVE -- THIS REALLY KIND OF (INAUDIBLE) THE FRAMEWORK THAT'S IN PLACE.

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NOW IT PUTS THE PROOF ON THE COMPANIES TO SHOW IT'S IN -- IN THE INTEREST

OF THE PUBLIC, AND ALMOST LIKE DENIAL IS ASSUMED AND LET -- INSTEAD OF

FIRST LETTING THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION AND DPS HOW IT NORMALLY

OPERATES BECAUSE THEY STILL OFTEN HAVE TO SIGN OFF ON THAT AND DON'T

REALLY -- THESE COMPANIES WHO ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE TRANSFER, THEY

MUST ADHERE TO THE EXISTING FRANCHISE AGREEMENTS THAT REFLECT THE LOCAL

NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITIES. AND -- AND USUALLY THESE CABLE MERGERS

HAVE EXISTING CONTRACTS OR SET UP CONTRACTS WITH INDIVIDUAL

COMMUNITIES. LIKE SOME 1,400-PLUS AGREEMENTS, THEY HAVE TO

NEGOTIATE THAT AND WORK THAT OUT. SO, NOW WE'RE GOING TO UPEND THAT

FRAMEWORK AND -- AND GO TO A DIFFERENT MECHANISM?

MS. PAULIN: SO, THEY WANT TO GO BACK TO THE

MECHANISM THAT EXISTED AND EXPIRED. AND BECAUSE WHAT THEY FOUND

WAS THAT THAT WAS THE MECHANISM THAT REALLY DID HELP PREVENT A

POSSIBILITY OF PUBLIC HARM. SO -- SO IN THE FORMER WAY OF -- OF MERGERS,

THE WAY THAT IT USED TO BE PRIOR TO THE EXPIRATION, THERE'S A -- THERE WAS

A BURDEN ON THE PART OF THE CORPORATION TO PROVE THAT IT WAS IN THE

PUBLIC INTEREST. THEY HAD TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT NOW IS NO LONGER

PROVIDED TO THE PSC. SO THESE DECISIONS ARE MADE WITHOUT THAT PROOF.

AND SO -- SO THE PSC DOES NOT HAVE AS MUCH INFORMATION AS THEY FEEL

THEY NEED TO HAVE TO MAKE AN APPROPRIATE DECISION. SO -- SO, YES, THERE

ARE DECISIONS BEING MADE, BUT THE -- THE INFORMATION IS NOT AS PROLIFIC

AS IT HAD BEEN.

MR. PALMESANO: BUT I GUESS FROM THAT

PERSPECTIVE, I JUST WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION THAT IF WE HAVE -- THIS IS THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

WAY WE'VE BEEN WORKING, THIS IS THE WAY IT'S BEEN OPERATING, THE PUBLIC

SERVICE COMMISSION HAS THE AUTHORITY TO GO BACK AND REQUEST OF THE

COMPANY IF THERE'S QUESTIONS THEY HAVE THAT THEY FEEL ARE NOT ANSWERED,

THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY AND THE ABILITY TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS IN

ADDRESSING THOSE ISSUES NOW. SO IT'S --

MS. PAULIN: THEY -- THEY ABSOLUTELY DO HAVE THE

ABILITY TO ASK, BUT IF THE -- IF THERE ISN'T ENOUGH INFORMATION PROVIDED

THEY DON'T ALWAYS KNOW WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK. SO THIS WAY THE BURDEN

TO HAVE THE INFORMATION IN FRONT OF THE PSC IS ON THE CORPORATION, WHO,

FRANKLY, IS GOING TO BENEFIT FROM THE MERGER, WHO WANTS THE MERGER

AND WILL HAVE AN ECONOMIC INTEREST IN -- IN THE MERGER HAPPENING. SO,

YOU KNOW, THE BURDEN SHOULD BE ON THE COMPANY TO PROVE ADDITIONALLY

THAT ASIDE FROM THE ECONOMIC BENEFIT THAT THEY WILL GET, THAT IT'S ALSO

GOING TO HAVE SOME BENEFIT ON THE PEOPLE THAT WE ALL REPRESENT AND

CARE ABOUT.

MR. PALMESANO: SURE. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT A

COUPLE OF SECTIONS IN THE BILL THAT -- THAT I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT

THAT KIND OF SEEM TO CONFLICT. FIRST, UNDER SECTION 3(A), IT STATES THAT,

YOU KNOW, AS YOU GO DOWN FURTHER, IT STATES UNDER CURRENT LAW IT SHALL

NOT PRECLUDE THE APPROVAL OF ANY APPLICATION THAT THE COMMISSION

FINDS THAT SUCH APPROVAL WOULD SERVE THE PUBLIC INTEREST. THAT'S IN

SECTION 3(A). BUT THEN DOWN TO SECTION 3(B) IT GOES BASICALLY THE LAW

IS AMENDED TO STATE THE COMMISSION SHALL NOT APPROVE THE APPLICATIONS

TO A TRANSFER OF FRANCHISE FOR ANY TRANSFER OF CONTROL OF A FRANCHISE OR A

CERTIFICATE OF CONFIRMATION UNLESS THE APPLICANT CONFORMS TO THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

STANDARDS ESTABLISHED IN THE REGULATIONS PROMULGATED AND THEN THE

TRANSFER IS OTHERWISE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST. SO IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THOSE

TWO STAT -- THOSE TWO PARTS OF LAW ALMOST CONFLICT WITH EACH OTHER, AND

ONE -- IN ONE BREATH IS SAYING THAT THEY -- THEY WON'T PRECLUDE THE

APPROVAL, BUT IN THE NEXT BREATH THEN IT KIND OF COMES BACK AND IT SAYS

WELL NOW THEY HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, SHOW IT'S IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST. AND

AGAIN, I MEAN, WHEN IT'S THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION IT'S THEIR JOB

MAKE SURE IT'S IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST. AND -- AND THOSE CORPORATIONS

HAVE TO PROVIDE THE DATA TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE BEEN.

MS. PAULIN: WELL, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT, YOU KNOW,

THE INFORMATION SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO THE PSC AND -- AND OFTENTIMES

-- AND -- AND NOW THERE WOULD BE NO -- UNDER THE CURRENT STATUTE SINCE

WE'VE HAD THE EXPIRATION THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT THAT THE INFORMATION IS

PROVIDED. SO THE PSC IS MAKING DECISIONS, BUT IF THEY COULD MAKE A

MORE INFORMED DECISION WE WOULD BE BENEFITTING A GREAT DEAL MORE.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. THANK YOU, AMY, FOR

YOUR TIME.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, MY

COLLEAGUES. OUR CABLE TELECOMMUNICATION INDUSTRY EMPLOYS MORE THAN

20,000 NEW YORKERS, GENERATES $100 MILLION IN TAXES, FEES FOR OUR

STATE AND OUR MUNICIPALITIES ANNUALLY. THEY ALREADY ADHERE TO A STRICT

REGULATORY FRAMEWORK THAT'S IN PLACE BOTH AT THE FEDERAL, STATE AND

EVEN IN NEGOTIATING AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION

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AND THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE EVALUATES, REVIEWS AND

DETERMINES IF IT'S IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST. COMPANIES PARTICIPATING IN A

TRANSFER MUST ADHERE TO THESE EXISTING FRANCHISE AGREEMENTS AND MAKE

SURE IT REFLECTS THE LOCAL NEED, WHICH IS PART OF THOSE CONTRACTS THAT ARE

ESTABLISHED WITH THOSE LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES. THIS BILL REALLY UPENDS THE

FRAMEWORK TO PLACE THE BURDEN OF THE -- ON THE COMPANIES FOR THE

TRANSFER. IT'S ALMOST WHEN YOU SAY IT'S A SIMILAR MODEL TO A DECADES-OLD

MODEL USED BY -- USED FOR -- FOR THE MONOPOLY ERA ENERGY UTILITIES

WHEN WE HAD MORE OF A MONOPOLY OF THAT ISSUE. THIS REALLY CHANGES,

COMPLICATES AND CONFUSES THE PROCESS, IN MY OPINION, TO THE DETRIMENT

OF THE PUBLIC AND IT REALLY DOES NOT NEED TO HAPPEN. CONFORMITY WITH

THE LAW IS ACCEPTED AND -- AND -- CONFORMITY WITH THE LAW, EXCUSE ME,

IS AN ACCEPTED AND RECOGNIZED PRECURSOR TO GRANTING A FRANCHISE. BUT

SAYING NOW THAT A CABLE FRANCHISE MUST TRANSFER IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST

AND THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT WHEN THEY'RE PROVIDING ALL THAT INFORMATION

TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE DEPARTMENT [SIC] AND THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC

SERVICE WHO HAS THAT RESPONSIBILITY TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABILITY [SIC]

AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE DOING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DOING. THIS REALLY

JUST CREATES A NEW BURDEN ON AN INDUSTRY WHICH, IN MY OPINION AND

OTHERS, WILL LEAD TO DELAYS IN APPROVAL, DENY RESOURCES TO OFTEN HARD-TO-

SERVE AREAS, ACCESS TO -- ACCESS TO OUR MODERN SERVICES, CABLE SERVICES

THAT OUR CUS -- OUR CONSTITUENTS DESERVE. THIS WILL REALLY LEAD TO STIFLE

INVESTMENT AND HAVE LESS ACCESS TO THE TECHNOLOGY THAT'S NEEDED. IT'S

PARTICULARLY IN OUR RURAL AREAS THAT ARE STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW TO GET

BROADBAND AND INTERNET ACCESS. THIS WAS A PROBLEM BEFORE COVID, IT

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

WAS A PROBLEM THAT WAS EXACERBERATE -- EXACERBATED AFTER COVID. WE

KNOW THE VIDEO MARKET IS HIGHLY COMPETITIVE AND OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE

NUMEROUS OPTIONS FROM WIRELESS CABLE, INTERNET, PROTOCOL, VIDEO

STREAMING, SATELLITE AND HIGH DEFINITION. THESE COMPANIES ARE INVESTED

IN STATE-OF-THE-ART FIBER HYBRID NETWORKS TO BRING BROADBAND

(INAUDIBLE) UP FOR THE PUBLIC AND OTHER TECHNOLOGY SERVICES. THERE ARE

STILL CHALLENGES TO THE INVESTMENT OF THIS, THOUGH, BECAUSE OF POLICIES

THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY THIS CHAMBER. THE DOT RIGHT-OF-WAY TAX

THAT BASICALLY IS CONTRADICTORY TO OUR GOALS OF UNIVERSAL BRAD --

BROADBAND. IT'S THE POLICIES I THINK LIKE THIS THAT PUT MORE OF A BURDEN,

MORE OF A HARDER -- HARD -- HARDSHIP ON THE VERY PEOPLE WE WANT TO

INVEST AND CREATE JOBS AND DEVELOP THAT ACCESS I THINK IS A CHALLENGE.

THE ANSWER WOULD BE TO ELIMINATE THE DOT RIGHT-OF-FEE TAX [SIC] AND

LET THIS FIBER AND THE DEVELOPMENT CONTINUE TO GO OUT TO OUR RURAL

COMMUNITIES. AND WE NEED TO HAVE POLICIES THAT DON'T CREATE A

DISINCENTIVE FOR INVESTMENT, AND I THINK THIS POLICY IF THIS GOES FORWARD

AND BECOMES LAW I THINK THAT COULD LEAD TO THAT. IT COULD HINDER THE

ACCESS AND EXPANSION TO MOVE OUR CHILDREN AND OUR FAMILIES IN

LOW-INCOME RURAL AREAS TO HAVE THE ACCESS TO THE BROADBAND AND

INTERNET AND TECHNOLOGY SERVICES THAT WE ALL WANT THEM TO HAVE, THAT

WE ALL NEED THEM TO HAVE. I THINK THIS IS AT A TIME NOW MORE THAN EVER

-- AS I SAID, IT'S PARTICULARLY IN OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES, ACCESS TO THE

INTERNET AND BROADBAND WAS A CHALLENGE EVEN BEFORE COVID, BUT IT'S

BEEN PARTICULARLY EXACERBATED AFTER IT. AND WE DON'T NEED TO BE PUTTING

POLICIES IN PLACE, MORE REGULATORY BURDENS IN FRONT OF THE VERY

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ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE WANT TO MAKE THAT PRIVATE SECTOR INVESTMENT TO

EXPAND THE BROADBAND. SO I THINK THIS IS GOING TO HINDER THAT

INVESTMENT, IT'S GOING TO BE A DISINCENTIVE TO INVESTMENT. AGAIN, THESE

ARE MAJOR ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE EMPLOYING AND CONTRIBUTING TO OUR

ECONOMY. SO WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT -- WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT POLICIES

THAT ARE GOING HELP ENCOURAGE THAT INVESTMENT? BUDGET'S COMING UP.

HOPEFULLY IN YOUR BUDGET YOU HAVE AN ELIMINATION OF THE DOT

RIGHT-OF-WAY FIBER AND TAX FEE WHICH HINDERS THAT INVESTMENT. THAT

WOULD BE A GOOD THING FOR US TO DO INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, JUST LOOKING

AT OTHER POLICIES LIKE THIS I THINK IT'S JUST GOING TO MAKE IT MORE -- MUCH

MORE DIFFICULT. I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO HELP US EXPAND ACCESS TO

OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES OR ANYONE THAT'S LOOKING TO EXPAND. I THINK IT'S

JUST GOING TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT.

SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, MR. SPEAKER, I'M GOING TO

BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE

SAME. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 6706. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THEIR CONFERENCE

POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

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MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. EVEN THOUGH MR.

PALMESANO STILL HAD OVER THREE-AND-A-HALF MINUTES LEFT IN HIS TIME, THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS STILL OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. BUT THOSE

WHO WANT TO SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY VOTE IN FAVOR ON THE FLOOR OR BY

CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU VERY

MUCH. MY COMPLIMENTS TO MR. PALMESANO. IT'S OBVIOUSLY AN

IMPROVEMENT.

(LAUGHTER)

MRS. -- MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF OUR

COLLEAGUES WHO WOULD DECIDE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL

FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THEIR

VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU

HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE HAVE FINE

RESOLUTIONS. WE'LL TAKE THEM UP WITH ONE VOTE.

ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 712-714

WERE UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

PLEASE CALL ON OUR COLLEAGUE MS. HUNTER FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN

ANNOUNCEMENT?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. HUNTER FOR THE

PURPOSES OF A ANNOUNCEMENT.

MS. HUNTER: YES, MR. SPEAKER. THERE WILL BE AN

IMMEDIATE NEED FOR CONFERENCE AT THE ADJOURNMENT OF SESSION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: IMMEDIATE

DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE AT THE END OF SESSION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: I NOW MOVE THAT THE

ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL 10:00 A.M., WEDNESDAY, MARCH THE

30TH, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

ADJOURNED.

(WHEREUPON, AT 6:07 P.M., THE HOUSE STOOD ADJOURNED

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 29, 2022

UNTIL WEDNESDAY, MARCH 30TH AT 10:00 A.M., THAT BEING A SESSION DAY.)

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