WEDNESDAY, MARCH 31, 2021 4:42 P.M.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME
TO ORDER HOUSE.
IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF
SILENCE.
(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)
VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE
OF ALLEGIANCE.
(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND
MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)
A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE
JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MARCH 30TH.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MARCH
30TH AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO
ORDERED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. I WANT TO WELCOME OUR COLLEAGUES TO THE CHAMBERS, BOTH
THOSE WHO ARE HERE WITH US AND THOSE ARE WITH US REMOTELY. I DO WANT
TO OFFER A QUOTE TODAY, MR. SPEAKER. THIS ONE IS FROM INDIRA GANDHI.
SHE IS AN INDIAN POLITICIAN, A CENTRAL FIGURE IN THE INDIAN NATIONAL
CONGRESS. SHE WAS THE FIRST AND, TO DATE, THE ONLY FEMALE PRIME
MINISTER OF INDIA. HER WORDS TO SHARE WITH US TODAY, MR. SPEAKER, ARE
SOCIAL CHANGE IS BROUGHT ABOUT BY THOSE WHO DARE AND ACT, WHO CAN
THINK UNCONVENTIONALLY AND WHO CAN COURT UNPOPULARITY.
MR. SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES SHOULD KNOW THAT THEY HAVE
ON THEIR DESK A MAIN CALENDAR. I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND MEMBERS THAT
TODAY IS THE SECOND SESSION DAY OF THE 13TH WEEK OF THE 244TH
LEGISLATIVE SESSION, AND THAT OUR PRINCIPAL WORK ON THIS SECOND DAY OF
THE 13TH WEEK OF THE 244TH LEGISLATIVE SESSION, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP
THREE BILLS, THEY ARE AS FOLLOWS: A RULES BILL, RULES REPORT NO. BILL
NO. 47 BY MS. RICHARDSON; CALENDAR NO. 211 BY MR. BRONSON; AND
RULES REPORT NO. 49 BY MR. LAWLER. MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD MAKE
ADDITIONAL ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING SCHEDULING AND OTHER ISSUES SHOULD
THEY BE NECESSARY. AT THE CONCLUSION OF THIS SESSION, THOUGH, AND
WITHOUT ANY DOUBT WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER MAJORITY CONFERENCE
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
AND SO I'M ASKING FOLKS WHO ARE WITH US REMOTE TO STAY ON AND YOU WILL
BE CONTACTED AS TO WHEN YOU SHOULD BE IN CONFERENCE. THAT IS A
GENERAL OUTLINE -- OF COURSE WE WILL CONSULT WITH OUR COLLEAGUES TO SEE
WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE, BUT THAT'S A GENERAL OUTLINE, MR. SPEAKER, AND
NOW WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO DO HOUSEKEEPING.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE HAVE NO OTHER
BUSINESS BUT TO GO DIRECTLY TO THE BILL YOU ANNOUNCED, THAT'S PAGE 4,
RULES REPORT NO. 47, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06255-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 47, RICHARDSON, PEOPLES-STOKES, PAULIN, GOTTFRIED, COOK,
PERRY, DINOWITZ, COLTON, LUPARDO, L. ROSENTHAL, ABINANTI, BRONSON,
QUART, OTIS, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, SIMON, SEAWRIGHT, CARROLL, NIOU,
GRIFFIN, FRONTUS, FALL, REYES, STERN, JACOBSON, CLARK, ANDERSON,
JEAN-PIERRE. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 108 OF THE LAWS OF 2020,
AMENDING THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW RELATING TO ISSUING A MORATORIUM ON
UTILITY TERMINATION OF SERVICES DURING PERIODS OF PANDEMICS AND/OR
STATE OF EMERGENCIES, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF;
TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW AND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN
RELATION TO ISSUING A MORATORIUM ON UTILITY TERMINATION OF SERVICES; AND
PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON THE EXPIRATION
THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS
REQUESTED, MS. RICHARDSON.
MS. RICHARDSON: GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. SPEAKER.
I'M VERY HAPPY TO BE ON THE FLOOR BACK IN THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE. I SAY
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GOOD AFTERNOON TO YOU AND ALL MY COLLEAGUES BEHIND THE DAIS, AS WELL
AS OUR MAJORITY LEADER AND ALL MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE HERE IN THE
CHAMBER. THIS ACT PREVENTS UTILITY CORPORATIONS, MUNICIPALITIES,
TELEPHONE CORPORATIONS, CABLE COMPANIES, BROADBAND PROVIDERS AND
WATER AUTHORITIES FROM TERMINATING OR DISCONNECTING THE SERVICES OF
RESIDENTIAL AND SMALL BUSINESS CUSTOMERS FOR THE NONPAYMENT OF
OVERDUE CHARGES DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC ON DECEMBER 31ST
OF 2021 OR EARLIER AT THE END OF THE EMERGENCY OF COVID-19. THIS IS
CONSISTENT WITH THE CURRENT MORATORIUM FOR 180 DAYS FOLLOWING THE
EXPIRATION OF THIS MORATORIUM. UTILITY CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE SUFFERED A
COVID RELATED HARDSHIP WILL BE ABLE TO ENTER INTO AN INSTALLMENT PLAN
WITH THEIR UTILITY COMPANY IN ORDER TO AVOID SHUTOFFS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LEMONDES.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?
MS. RICHARDSON: ABSOLUTELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. RICHARDSON
YIELDS.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. NICE TO MEET YOU.
MS. RICHARDSON: NICE TO MEET YOU AS WELL.
MR. LEMONDES: I JUST HAVE A COUPLE VERY BRIEF
QUESTIONS AND THEN, AS THE RANKING MINORITY MEMBER ON THIS
COMMITTEE I'LL THEN TURN IT OVER TO MY COLLEAGUES TO CONTINUE THE
DEBATE. THE FIRST, COULD YOU PLEASE CLARIFY THE COVERED PERIOD?
MS. RICHARDSON: SO THE COVERED PERIOD, THIS ACT
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WILL GO UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR SO THAT'S DECEMBER 31ST OF THIS YEAR,
AND IF CUSTOMERS CAN PROVE THAT THEY HAVE AN ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, THEY
WILL THEN BE GIVEN AN EXTRA 180 DAYS. IN THAT, IT IS THE DEPARTMENT OF
PUBLIC SERVICE WHO WILL BE DETERMINING IF FOLKS ACTUALLY DO HAVE AN
ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THROUGH THE CURRENT
MORATORIUM THAT'S IN EFFECT.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU.
MS. RICHARDSON: YOU'RE WELCOME.
MR. LEMONDES: SECOND QUESTION. WITH RESPECT
TO WIRELESS SERVICES, DOES THE FACT THAT THIS BILL IS FEDERALLY PREEMPTED
MEAN ANYTHING?
MS. RICHARDSON: DOES THE FACT THAT THIS BILL IS
FEDERALLY PREEMPTED MEAN ANYTHING? NO.
MR. LEMONDES: OKAY. THANK YOU. AND HOW
DOES THE BILL PROTECT FROM ABUSE OF DIFFERENTIATING CUSTOMERS THAT CAN
PAY BUT DON'T HAVE -- BUT DON'T HAVE TO UNDER THE COVERAGE OF THE BILL'S
PROTECTIONS, I.E. HAVING A CHANGE IN FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES?
MS. RICHARDSON: WELL, WE ARE LEANING ON NEW
YORKERS TO SELF-ATTEST TO THEIR ECONOMIC HARDSHIPS, MUCH LIKE WHAT WE
HAVE DONE AROUND THE RENT AND OTHER AREAS OF BILL PAYMENT. WE ARE
LOOKING FOR CUSTOMERS TO MOVE WITH THE SPIRIT OF HONESTY AND, YOU
KNOW, IF THERE'S ABUSE THEN WE'LL SET UP RECOURSE.
MR. LEMONDES: BUT THERE IS NO -- THERE IS NO
RECOURSE CURRENTLY, CORRECT?
MS. RICHARDSON: AT THIS TIME, NO. WHAT WE'RE
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DOING IS PUTTING PEOPLE FIRST, UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ARE IN A NATIONAL
GLOBAL PANDEMIC AND INDIVIDUALS DO HAVE A DIFFICULTY TO PAY THEIR
UTILITY BILLS. WHAT WE HAVE DONE AS AN ASSEMBLY BODY HAS PROVIDED
SOME FISCAL MONIES THAT CAN BE USED TO ASSIST WITH THE PAYMENT OF
THESE TYPE OF BILLS. SO IF INDIVIDUALS ACTUALLY HAVE A TRUE ECONOMIC
HARDSHIP, THEY WILL THEN UTILIZE THE FUNDING THAT'S AVAILABLE TO THEM.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT. AND
THOSE ARE THE END OF MY QUESTIONS, I'LL SPEAK ON THE BILL, I PROMISED YOU
I'D BE BRIEF AND --
MS. RICHARDSON: YOU DID PHENOMENAL.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LEMONDES, ON
THE BILL, SIR.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU, SIR. THE DE FACTO
RESULT OF THIS BILL IS ULTIMATELY HIGHER COSTS FOR ALL RATEPAYERS AND
CUSTOMERS. IN MY OPINION, IT'S BAD FOR BUSINESSES BECAUSE IT
CIRCUMVENTS NORMAL RECOURSE FOR UNPAID BILLS BEYOND THE COVERED
PERIOD, THEREBY PLACING THE BURDEN ON ESSENTIAL WORKERS LIKE POLICE,
FIREMEN, MEDICAL PERSONNEL, FARMERS, THOSE ON FIXED INCOME LIKE
ELDERLY PEOPLE, RETIREES, SENIORS, VETERANS, SSI RECIPIENTS. WE ALREADY
PAY THE SECOND HIGHEST UTILITY RATES IN THE NATION, AND BECAUSE OF
REGULATIONS LIKE THIS, IT COULD MAKE THAT WORSE. SO I ASK TO PLEASE KEEP
THAT IN MIND.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
AND ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND THE SPONSOR'S INTENT AND
EVEN AGREE WITH IT TO SOME EXTENT, I THINK IT WEAKENS OUR RESPONSIBILITY
TO PAY OUR OWN DEBTS. YOUR DEBT IS NOT MY PROBLEM, NOR IS MINE
YOURS. WHEN YOU TRANSACT BUSINESS AND EXCHANGE TAKES PLACE,
TYPICALLY THE PROVISION OF A PRODUCT OR A SERVICE IN EXCHANGE FOR
PAYMENT. I DON'T THINK THIS ADVANTAGING EITHER SIDE OF THE EQUATION IS
BENEFICIAL FOR ALL OF US IN THE LONG RUN. FOR THESE REASONS, I'LL VOTE
AGAINST THIS AND YIELD BACK THE BALANCE OF MY TIME TO MY COLLEAGUES.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. PALMESANO.
MR. PALMESANO: YES. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. RICHARDSON, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MS. RICHARDSON: ABSOLUTELY, MR. SPEAKER.
MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, DIANA. QUICK --
COUPLE -- FIRST THING I WANTED TO ASK YOU, RIGHT NOW I SEE IN REPORTS, DO
YOU -- DO YOU -- ARE YOU AWARE HOW MUCH IN ARREARS WE ARE RIGHT NOW
WITH UTILITY AND OTHER BILLS? I SAW A REPORT IN NEWSDAY THAT SAID WE
WERE ABOUT $1.25 BILLION, AND JUST ON -- LIPA, $187 MILLION THAT'S
ARREARS. ACROSS THE STATE, ARE YOU -- ARE YOU AWARE OF HOW MUCH WE
HAVE IN ARREARS?
MS. RICHARDSON: THE EXACT NUMBERS, MR.
PALMESANO, NO I AM NOT AWARE OF, BUT I -- I CAN ASSURE YOU, MR.
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PALMESANO, THAT THE NUMBER IS SOME GREAT FIGURE BECAUSE WE HAVE
BEEN IN A PANDEMIC FOR A -- A YEAR'S TIME NOW.
MR. PALMESANO: THAT'S CORRECT, YEAH. I THINK
NEWSDAY HAD IT TAGGED AT ABOUT $1.25 BILLION, THAT'S SIGNIFICANT. I
GUESS THE QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK YOU ALSO, IS THERE ANY LANGUAGE IN
THIS BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE INDIVIDUALS TO APPLY FOR ASSISTANCE
PROGRAMS THAT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR TO QUALIFY FOR THE MORATORIUM? SO IF
THERE'S PROGRAMS THAT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR, REQUIRING THEM TO APPLY FOR
THESE ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS OR ANYTHING DIRECTING THE PSC OR PUBLIC
SERVICE COMMISSION TO REQUIRE THEM TO APPLY FOR THESE PROGRAMS THAT
THEY NORMALLY MIGHT APPLY FOR THAT THEY'RE NOT APPLYING FOR. IS THERE
ANY LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE THAT?
MS. RICHARDSON: REQUIRING INDIVIDUALS, NO, MR.
PALMESANO, BUT WHAT WE WILL BE DOING, WE HAVE A NOTIFICATION PORTION
OF THIS BILL SO ON THE ACTUAL BILLING STATEMENT FOR CONSUMERS, WE HAVE A
NOTIFICATION PORTION AND I WOULD ASSUME THAT UTILITY PROVIDERS WOULD
PUT A BLURP THERE ON HOW -- HOW THEIR CUSTOMERS CAN ACCESS AVAILABLE
FUNDS TO THEM.
MR. PALMESANO: REGARDING SOME OF THESE
PROGRAMS THAT ARE OUT THERE, I KNOW, I'LL JUST TELL YOU THAT RIGHT NOW
WE'VE GOT $1.3 BILLION IN FEDERAL AID FOR RENTERS THAT'S BEEN GIVEN TO
NEW YORK THAT WE HAVEN'T APPLIED YET THAT COULD BE USED FOR SOME OF
THESE PROGRAMS. DO WE KNOW WHEN THAT'S GOING TO BE BLEEDING OUT TO
THE COMMUNITIES? IF WE DON'T USE IT BY SEPTEMBER, WE FORFEIT THAT
MONEY BACK TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. DO WE KNOW IS THAT GOING TO
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BE USED TO HELP IN THESE INSTANCES WHETHER IT'S RENT OR UTILITY COSTS?
MS. RICHARDSON: WHAT WE HAVE PUT IN THE
PREVIOUS BILL, MR. PALMESANO, IS PROVISIONS FOR THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES
TO WORK WITH NON-PROFIT GROUPS THAT ARE CULTURALLY, LINGUISTICALLY
COMPETENT TO DO OUTREACH INTO COMMUNITIES TO EDUCATE CONSUMERS OF
THE RESOURCES THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO THEM. TRUST ME, I AM A PERSON
WHOSE LIVED MANY LIVES PRIOR TO STANDING ON THIS FLOOR. NO ONE WANTS
TO BE BEHIND ON THEIR BILLS. NO ONE WANTS TO BE FACING EVICTION. NO
ONE WANTS TO BE FACING UTILITY SHUTOFF. EVERYONE NEEDS THEIR LIGHT, THEIR
CABLE, THEIR HEAT AND PHONE AND SO FORTH. SO IT IS MY BELIEF AND THE
BELIEF OF MY COLLEAGUES AND THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AS
THESE RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE TO THEM, FOLKS WILL UTILIZE IT. WE JUST
HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB AS A STATE LEGISLATURE IN ENSURING THAT OUR
COMMUNICATION IS CLEAR AND THAT THE -- THE METRICS ON WHO QUALIFIES IS
CLEAR SO THAT FOLKS FEEL COMFORTABLE APPLYING.
MR. PALMESANO: NO, THAT'S -- I APPRECIATE THAT
BECAUSE WE DEFINITELY NEED TO HAVE THESE INDIVIDUALS APPLYING FOR
THESE PROGRAMS THAT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR BECAUSE WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT
THAT'S HAPPENING, AT LEAST THAT'S THE REPORTS WE'RE GETTING. AND THE
CONCERN I HAVE AND THE OTHERS HAVE IS ALL WE'RE GOING TO DO IS SEE THESE
ARREARS COMPOUND AND COMPOUND WHICH IS JUST GOING TO MAKE THE
SITUATION MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR THEM AND JUST COMPOUNDING THE DEBT.
AND SO I GUESS MY NEXT QUESTION IS NOW WHAT HAPPENS IF THE ARREARS
CONTINUE TO BUILD UP AND BUILD UP AND, YOU KNOW, THESE UTILITIES OR
CABLE COMPANIES ARE LOSING SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF MONEY. ISN'T IT
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ULTIMATELY THAT GOING TO PASS ON TO THE CUSTOMER AND THE RATEPAYER
THROUGH RATE CASES WHEN THEY GO TO THE PSC; ISN'T THAT A POSSIBILITY?
BECAUSE THOSE CASES HAVE TO BE -- HAVE TO BE MADE UP, THOSE FUNDS
HAVE TO BE MADE UP BECAUSE THEY'RE LOSSES IF THEY'RE NOT BEING PAID.
THAT'S A LOSS TO THAT INDIVIDUAL, THAT UTILITY COMPANY OR CABLE COMPANY.
SO WASN'T THAT POSSIBLE THAT THAT'S BEEN THE CAUSE FOR RATE CASE --
INCREASED RATES FOR EVERYBODY ELSE?
MS. RICHARDSON: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL
CAUSE RATE INCREASES, MR. PALMESANO. HONESTLY, I THINK THAT AS A STATE
LEGISLATURE AND A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND EVEN LOCALLY, WE -- WE
UNDERSTAND HOW WE ARE ALL INTERTWINED AND WE SAW THAT THERE WAS A LOT
DONE TO HELP THE HOUSING SITUATION. I THINK IF IT BECOMES SUCH A DIRE
SITUATION AS TO THE WAY YOU HAVE DESCRIBED THAT WE COULD PROBABLY SEE
SOME SORT OF RELIEF AND RESOLUTION IN A DIFFERENT WAY WITHOUT PASSING
ON THE COST TO THE CONSUMER, SO NO.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. WELL, I CAN RESPECT THAT
ANSWER, BUT I GUESS THE CONCERN WE HAVE TO REALIZE, THERE IS A PROCESS
IN PLACE WHERE UTILITIES OR OTHER COMPANIES GO BEFORE THE PSC BECAUSE
THEY'RE REGULATED BY THE PSC. IF THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT LOSS, I MEAN, THE
REGULATORS ARE WORRIED ABOUT THAT. THERE IS A PROCESS THAT THEY WOULD
TAKE THOSE LOSSES IF THEY'RE DOCUMENTED AND SIGNIFICANT TO PRESENT THAT
BEFORE THE PSC FOR A RATE INCREASE AND THEN THAT RATE INCREASE WOULD
NOT JUST BE BORNE BY ALL THE OTHER RATEPAYERS, IT WOULD BE BORNE BY THE
SAME INDIVIDUALS WE'RE TRYING TO HELP THE SHUTOFF BECAUSE THEY'LL HAVE
THE ARREARS AND THEN ON TOP OF IT, THEY'LL HAVE A RATE INCREASE, THAT IS A
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POSSIBILITY. I KNOW YOU THINK IT'S NOT, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY A POSSIBILITY
THAT COULD HAPPEN UNDER THIS SCENARIO, CORRECT?
MS. RICHARDSON: NO. AGAIN, MR. PALMESANO,
LET'S BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT THE TEXT OF THIS BILL STATES. THIS SIMPLY IS
GIVING CONSUMERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET INTO A REPAYMENT AGREEMENT,
OKAY. IT DOES NOT LET PEOPLE OFF THE HOOK. I AM FROM CENTRAL BROOKLYN
AND FROM THE CARIBBEAN AND AS WE SAY, YOU GOT TO GIVE PEOPLE A TIME
TO PAY, YOU GOT TO GIVE PEOPLE A TIME TO PAY. THIS IS A PANDEMIC.
INDIVIDUALS HAVE LOST THEIR EMPLOYMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES ARE
STRUGGLING AND WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW IS NOT, YOU KNOW, THE
EFFECT OF PASSING ON AN INCREASE TO CONSUMERS DOWN THE LINE. WE ARE
LOOKING AT MAKING SURE PEOPLE STAY WHOLE RIGHT NOW. AND, AGAIN, I
DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO THAT FALSE PRINCIPLE THAT THIS WILL INCREASE BILLS.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. FAIR ENOUGH. CERTAINLY
ON THE BROADBAND ISSUE, WE KNOW HOW CRITICAL THAT IS THROUGH THE
PANDEMIC, WHAT WE'VE SEEN WITH REMOTE LEARNING, REMOTE WORK, WE'VE
DONE IT HERE IN THE CHAMBER, OUR KIDS ARE DOING IT AT SCHOOL. I THINK
SOME OF THE CONCERNS I HAVE IS RELATIVE TO THE PROBLEM WITH THE
LANGUAGE THAT MY COLLEAGUE BROUGHT UP REGARDING FEDERAL PREEMPTION.
I GUESS MY QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU RESPOND IF THE STATE'S TRYING TO PUT
REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS ON BROADBAND SERVICE AND THE FACT IS THE
FEDERAL LAW PREEMPTS STATE REGULATION OF BROADBAND AS IT'S DEFINED AS
INTERSTATE INFORMATION AND COMMERCE, WHICH IS SUBJECT TO EXCLUSIVE
REALLY REGULATORY AUTHORITY, THE FCC, AND THEN ALSO -- THERE'S ALSO
LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT SAYS THAT YOU CAN'T EFFECT RATES AND, IN ESSENCE,
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AREN'T WE, WITH TRYING TO PUT THIS REGULATION ON BROADBAND AND ON
BROADBAND PROVIDERS AND EFFECTIVELY, YOU KNOW, WITH THE RATES, AREN'T
YOU BASICALLY STEPPING ON WHERE THE FEDERAL JURISDICTION IS, WHERE THE
STATE DOESN'T HAVE ANY JURISDICTION IN IT?
MS. RICHARDSON: NO, MR. PALMESANO, YOU'RE
INCORRECT. THE STATE HAS THE POWER TO ENFORCE CONSUMER REGULATION SO
WE ARE NOT STEPPING OUT OF OUR LANE.
MR. PALMESANO: ALL RIGHT. FAIR ENOUGH. I
APPRECIATE YOUR HONESTY. AND I DO HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I
WANTED TO ASK YOU.
MS. RICHARDSON: LET'S GO.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. PALMESANO: LAST YEAR WHEN I HAD A
CONVERSATION WITH THE SPONSOR ON THIS LEGISLATION, AND I CAME TO HIM
AND I BROUGHT UP IF WE HAD -- I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO
DO WITH THIS LEGISLATION, WE WANT TO TRY TO PROVIDE RELIEF TO HELP
INDIVIDUALS, BUT IF WE COULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY RIGHT NOW TO PROVIDE
REAL, EFFECTIVE, MEANINGFUL, IMMEDIATE RELIEF TO RATEPAYERS RIGHT NOW
AND LET THEM GET CAUGHT UP ON THEIR BILLS, IF THERE'S A WAY TO DO THAT
AND, SPECIFICALLY, WE REQUIRE -- IT'S JUST A DELAY OF SOME OF OUR GREEN
ENERGY PROJECTS, SOLAR FARMS AND WINDMILLS, WOULDN'T THAT BE AT LEAST
SOMETHING TO LOOK AT? I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULDN'T DO THOSE IN THE
FUTURE, JUST TO DELAY THEM AND THEN WE COULD PROVIDE IMMEDIATE RELIEF.
I MEAN, I KNOW WIND AND SOLAR IS FOR OUR FUTURE, BUT IF WE COULD
PROVIDE IMMEDIATE RELIEF TO HELP INDIVIDUALS RIGHT NOW; ISN'T THAT
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SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT DOING RIGHT NOW?
MS. RICHARDSON: I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT, MR.
PALMESANO, IN THE THOUGHT PROCESS THAT WE NEED TO BE EXTREMELY
CREATIVE AND TO LOOK AND RELOOK AT MEASURES WE HAVE PROBABLY TAKEN IN
THE PAST TO TRY TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY AVENUES FOR US TO MANIPULATE TO
GET SOME EXCESS FUNDING TO HELP WITH OUR IMMEDIATE NEEDS, SO I WOULD
SAY YES, BUT CAUTIOUSLY.
MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE -- AND
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.
PALMESANO.
MR. PALMESANO: CERTAINLY I WANT TO APPLAUD THE
SPONSOR. I KNOW HER INTENTIONS BEHIND THIS BILL IS TO HELP. WE ALL WANT
TO HELP, AND I -- I APPRECIATE THAT. I THINK -- I KNOW, YOU KNOW, SOME
CRITICISMS I'LL BRING UP ON THIS BILL, SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY, WELL,
HOW CAN YOU VOTE NO, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEAS OR A PLAN, AND I KNOW A
LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE HEAR THE WORD "UTILITY COMPANY," WE THINK OF A
BIG CORPORATION AND SHAREHOLDERS. I THINK OF IT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. I
HEAR "UTILITY," I THINK OF A RATEPAYER, I THINK OF THE CUSTOMER. I THINK OF
A SMALL BUSINESS OR FARMER. AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WHEN COST
INCREASED ON OUR UTILITIES, ON OUR BUSINESSES, OUR TELECOM COMPANIES,
WHEN THOSE COSTS INCREASE, THOSE COSTS ARE GOING TO BE COVERED THROUGH
INCREASED PRICES AND INCREASE RATES. IT'S JUST A FACT.
BUT YET, WE CAN HELP. I TALK ABOUT WHAT CAN WE DO
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HERE TODAY. WE CAN, WE HAVE A SUGGESTION, A SOLUTION RIGHT NOW. WE
CAN PROVIDE IMMEDIATE RELIEF TO PEOPLE WHO ARE HURTING RIGHT NOW WITH
THEIR ARREARS. ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS JUST TAKE SOME TIME AND DELAY SOME
OF OUR GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS, WIND AND SOLAR FARMS. I MEAN, I KNOW
WE'RE SPENDING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR ON GREEN ENERGY. WE COULD
TAKE SOME OF THAT MONEY, A PORTION OF IT, AND LET THAT GO RIGHT AND PAY
OFF SOME OF THESE ARREARS THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE. LAST YEAR WHEN WE
WERE DISCUSSING THIS, THERE WAS $1.1 BILLION SITTING IN A FUND WAITING TO
BE TRANSFERRED TO NYSERDA FOR GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS. WOULDN'T IT BE
BETTER TO USE THAT FUNDING TO HELP PROVIDE DIRECT, IMMEDIATE RELIEF TO
OUR CUSTOMERS WHO ARE HURTING RIGHT NOW, TO OUR RATEPAYERS WHO ARE
BEHIND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS -- OVER BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ACROSS THE STATE.
WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO USE THAT? WOULDN'T THAT BE A BETTER USE OF THAT
FUNDING? WE COLLECTED OVER $1 BILLION A YEAR IN TAX AND FEES AND
ASSESSMENTS ON OUR UTILITY BILLS. LOOK AT YOUR BILL, IT'S RENEWABLE
PORTFOLIO STANDARD, THE SYSTEMS BENEFIT CHARGE; SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF
MONEY. WE CAN HELP RIGHT NOW. WE CAN MAKE THAT -- PROVIDE THAT
RELIEF RIGHT NOW. THE GOVERNOR'S TALKING ABOUT 24 ENVIRONMENTAL
PROJECTS, GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS AT $29 BILLION. SOME OF THAT'S PRIVATE
MONEY, BUT SOME OF THAT IS STATE MONEY. DELAY SOME OF THESE PROJECTS
FOR A YEAR OR TWO. I'M NOT SAYING DON'T DO THEM, BUT JUST DELAY THEM FOR
A YEAR OR TWO. TAKE THAT MONEY, $1.2 BILLION, WE CAN PAY OFF ALL THE
ARREARS RIGHT NOW. WE SHOULD BE EXPLORING THAT. THAT WOULD PROVIDE
REAL AND MEANINGFUL RELIEF TO PEOPLE, FAMILIES, AND BUSINESSES. THAT'S
WHAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT DOING.
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THE OTHER AREA, TOO, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT I HAVE SOME
CONCERNS ABOUT, THERE IS FEDERAL PREEMPTION HERE. BECAUSE REALLY
UNDER THE LAW, IT CLEARLY PREEMPTS UNDER FEDERAL LAW THE THIRD
JURISDICTION FOR REGULATION OF BROADBAND FALLS WITH THE FCC AND THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, NOT THE STATE GOVERNMENT. AND ALL THIS IS GOING
TO DO IS TO LEAD TO MORE LAWSUITS, QUITE FRANKLY, AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO
PROVIDE THE ASSISTANCE TO THE PEOPLE THAT WE NEED TO DO. WE HAVE TO --
WHEN YOU'RE EFFECTING THE RATES THAT ARE BEING PAID, WHEN YOU'RE TRYING
TO HAVE THE REGULATION OF BROADBAND INTERNET ACCESS, WHICH IS REALLY
INTERSTATE COMMERCE, INTERSTATE SERVICE, THE FCC HAS BEEN REALLY CLEAR
ABOUT THAT. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO RUN INTO PROBLEMS WITH THAT IN THE
FUTURE. AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, IF WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO PUT THIS ON OUR
BROADBAND PROVIDERS, THIS IS CLEARLY GOING TO DISCOURAGE THE NECESSARY,
NEEDED INVESTMENT WE NEED TO BUILD OUT OUR BROADBAND NETWORK BY OUR
PROVIDERS, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL AREAS. WHY WOULD THEY MAKE THAT
INVESTMENT IF WE'RE TAKING THIS ATTACK AND APPROACH WITH THEM? AND I
THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE'RE MAKING SURE PEOPLE FIND AND APPLY
FOR THESE ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS, BECAUSE IF THEY'RE NOT, IF WE'RE NOT GOING
TO PROVIDE THAT TYPE OF ASSISTANCE I WAS TALKING ABOUT, THESE ARREARS ARE
GOING TO CONTINUE TO GROW. THEY HAVE TO APPLY FOR THESE PROGRAMS.
WE NEED TO MAKE THEM APPLY FOR THESE PROGRAMS THAT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE
FOR IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE -- QUALIFY FOR THIS MORATORIUM, BECAUSE WHAT'S
GOING TO HAPPEN, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WHEN RATES GO UP, RATES WILL
GO UP AND COSTS ARE GOING TO GO UP, RATES ARE GOING TO GO UP, IT'S GOING
TO IMPACT THE UTILITY BILLS OF EVERYBODY. IT'S GOING TO IMPACT THE UTILITY
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
BILLS OF OUR -- OUR ESSENTIAL WORKERS, THE NURSE, THE GROCERY CLERK; THEIR
RATES ARE GOING TO GO UP AND THE SENIOR CITIZENS ON FIXED INCOME,
BECAUSE THEY MAY NOT QUALIFY FOR FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES, AND THE
SENIORS ON FIXED INCOME. THAT TO ME, THAT'S PROBLEMATIC. THE FACT OF
THE MATTER IS WE KNOW THEY BRING RATE CASES BEFORE THE PCS ON THE
CUSTOMERS WHEN THEIR COSTS ARE GOING UP, THERE'S NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE
OTHER THAN TO INCREASE RATES ON EVERYONE ELSE TO MAKE UP THAT MONEY.
SO THIS IS JUST GOING TO LEAD TO HIGHER UTILITY RATES.
WE'RE ALREADY AT LIKE THE SECOND HIGHEST RATES IN THE COUNTRY, HIGHER
UTILITY RATES FOR EVERYONE ELSE, AND ON THE SAME PEOPLE WE'RE TRYING TO
HELP, AND THAT'S UNFORTUNATE. I JUST THINK THIS ISN'T A REALLY GOOD
SITUATION. I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO HELP, AND I APPRECIATE THE ATTENTION OF
THE SPONSOR DOING THIS, BUT WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE
ENCOURAGING THEY'RE APPLYING FOR ASSISTANCE BECAUSE IF WE DO THAT AND
WE GET THAT HELP TO THEM, THEN WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE HELPING THE
CUSTOMER LOWER THEIR ARREARS, OR ELIMINATE THEIR ARREARS WHICH IS WHAT
WE REALLY WANT TO DO, NOT JUST HAVE THEM BUILD UP AND COMPOUND AS
THEY CONTINUE TO DO. AND IT WOULD HELP A PROVIDER BE ABLE TO GET
REIMBURSED FOR THE SERVICES THAT ARE PROVIDED -- PROVIDING, WHICH
THEY'RE ENTITLED FOR THEIR REIMBURSEMENT. IF THEY'RE NOT BEING PAID, IT'S
GOING TO TAKE FOREVER TO GET THEM BACK, OR NOT GET BACK OR IT'S GOING TO
COME THROUGH THE RATE INCREASES. AND THAT WILL -- IF WE CAN DO THAT
TYPE OF ACTION, THAN THAT'S GOING TO LESSEN THE COST SHIFT THAT GOES TO OUR
ESSENTIAL WORKERS, IT'S GOING TO LESSEN THE COST SHIFT THAT GOES TO THOSE
INDIVIDUALS ACROSS THIS STATE THROUGH INCREASED UTILITY BILLS, INTERNET
16
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
BILLS. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING ON. WE WANT TO PROTECT
THEM AND I THINK, UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK THIS IS JUST GOING TO CREATE
SOME CONCERNS AND CHALLENGES FOR EVERYONE ELSE AS WE MOVE FORWARD,
EVEN THE VERY PEOPLE WE'RE TRYING TO HELP, BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY, THEIR
ARREARS ARE COMPOUNDING, BUT THEIR BILLS ARE GOING TO GO UP, TOO,
BECAUSE THERE ARE GOING TO BE RATE INCREASES ACROSS THE BOARD.
AND I GUESS I REALLY WANTED TO STRESS TO MY COLLEAGUES
RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE AN IDEA. IF WE JUST TAKE THE FUNDS THAT ARE USED FOR
GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR THAT ARE EFFECTED AND
SPENT THROUGH TAXES, FEES, AND ASSESSMENTS. IF WE CAN JUST DELAY SOME
OF THOSE PROJECTS. I'M NOT SAYING THEY'RE NOT WORTHWHILE PROJECTS, BUT
THE CRITICAL NEED IS FOR OUR CONSTITUENTS RIGHT NOW WHO ARE SUFFERING.
WE CAN TAKE THAT MONEY AND GO AND PROVIDE DIRECT, IMMEDIATE RELIEF
RIGHT NOW. GET RID OF THE ARREARS, GET RID OF THOSE BACK BILLS FOR OUR
SMALL BUSINESSES, FOR OUR RESIDENTS, THAT'S -- THAT'S THE SOLUTION. WE CAN
DO THAT RIGHT NOW IN THE BUDGET PROCESS. I ENCOURAGE US TO EXPLORE
THAT. THAT'S REAL RELIEF, THAT'S GOING TO PROVIDE THE HELP TO THE PEOPLE
WE'RE TRYING TO TALK ABOUT HELPING TODAY. THAT WILL BE REAL RELIEF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. PALMESANO: LET'S PROVIDE REAL RELIEF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PALMESANO, YOU
CAN TAKE A BREATH NOW.
(LAUGHTER)
17
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MR. JENSEN.
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL MY
COLLEAGUE FROM CENTRAL BROOKLYN YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. RICHARDSON, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MS. RICHARDSON: ABSOLUTELY, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. RICHARDSON
YIELDS.
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. A COUPLE
MINUTES AGO, YOU -- YOU MENTIONED TO -- THE ANSWER TO A QUESTION FROM
THE RANKING MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE THAT IT'S UP TO THE -- THE PUBLIC
SERVICE COMMISSION TO DETERMINE IF A CONSUMER HAS THE FINANCIAL
ABILITY TO PAY WHAT THEY'RE OWED ON THEIR BILLS. IS THAT FOR JUST
RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS OR THE SMALL BUSINESS CUSTOMERS AS WELL, OR BOTH?
(PAUSE)
MS. RICHARDSON: YEAH, IT'S FOR BOTH. SORRY I
NEEDED CLARITY.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. THANK YOU. SO I'M -- JUST A
FOLLOW UP ON THAT. I KNOW IN THE BILL IT TALKS ABOUT HOW THE
MORATORIUM PROTECTIONS NEED TO BE EXTENDED TO SMALL BUSINESSES WITH
CUSTOMERS OF -- WITH EMPLOYEES OF 25 OR FEWER.
MS. RICHARDSON: MM-HMM.
MR. JENSEN: SO LONG AS THEY ARE NOT A
PUBLICLY-HELD COMPANY, SEASONAL, SHORT-TERM OR TEMPORARY CUSTOMER, A
HIGH ENERGY CUSTOMER AS DEFINED BY THE PSC, OR A CUSTOMER THAT HAS
18
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
THE -- THAT THE UTILITY CAN DEMONSTRATE HAS THE RESOURCES TO PAY THE BILL.
SO IN THAT READING, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE ONUS IS ON THE SERVICE
PROVIDER TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEIR CUSTOMER HAS THE FINANCIAL
ABILITY TO PAY WHAT THEY OWE FOR THEIR SERVICES, AND IT DOESN'T FALL TO THE
PSC TO DETERMINE FINANCIAL ABILITY; WOULD THAT BE AN ACCURATE READING
OF THE BILL TEXT?
MS. RICHARDSON: YEAH, NOT REALLY. ULTIMATELY
THE RECOURSE WOULD BE TO THE PSC.
MR. JENSEN: SO THE PSC, THE UTILITIES DO HAVE TO
PROVIDE THE SMALL BUSINESS CUSTOMER OF ITS REASONS AND THEIR RIGHT TO
CONTEST THE DETERMINATION THROUGH A PSC COMPLAINT PROCEDURE BASED
ON THE EMERGENCY DECLARATION, BUT I'M MERELY JUST UNSURE ABOUT HOW
UTILITY IS ABLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEIR CUSTOMER HAS FINANCIAL
ABILITY TO SATISFY THEIR REQUIREMENTS.
MS. RICHARDSON: YEAH. THIS IS MORE PUT IN
PLACE IN THE LANGUAGE FOR BIG, BIG, BIG, COMPANIES THAT WE ALL, FOR
INSTANCE, LIKE THE GE, SOMEONE WHO WE KNOW HAS THE ABILITY TO PAY SO
THAT THEY DON'T, YOU KNOW, TRY TO SLIP INTO THIS SMALL BUSINESS CATEGORY.
MR. JENSEN: SO -- SO THE -- THE BIG BUSINESSES OF
26 EMPLOYEES OR LARGER ARE COVERED BY THIS BILL, OR NOT COVERED BY THIS
BILL?
MS. RICHARDSON: THEY ARE NOT AS PER THE
LANGUAGE OF THE BILL, AND IF THEY WERE HIGH USAGE, THEY WOULDN'T BE
COVERED EITHER.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. BUT THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO,
19
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
25 AND OVER, THEY'D STILL -- THE UTILITY PROVIDER WOULD STILL HAVE TO
DETERMINE IF THEY HAVE THE ABILITY BEFORE IT GOES TO THE PSC. I'M JUST --
I'M NEW, SO I'M LEARNING, SO I JUST -- I HAVE QUESTIONS.
MS. RICHARDSON: I WOULD SAY THAT'S ACCURATE.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. SO HOW WOULD THE UTILITY
COMPANY GO ABOUT FINDING OUT THE FINANCIAL WELL-BEING OF THEIR
CUSTOMER?
MS. RICHARDSON: WELL, THERE MIGHT REQUIRE
SOME OUTREACH TO THE BUSINESSES TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT SUBJECT TO
PROTECTIONS OF THIS BILL. IT'S GOING TO COST SOME LEGWORK AND SOME
OUTREACH.
MR. JENSEN: SO THE UTILITY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE
CERTAIN STEPS TO ENSURE THAT THEIR CUSTOMER IS ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING A
COVID-RELATED FINANCIAL HARDSHIP AND THEY'RE JUST NOT CHOOSING TO
DECLINE TO PAY THEIR BILL.
MS. RICHARDSON: WELL, WHEN IT COMES TO THE
SMALL BUSINESSES, I WOULD SAY YES, BUT TO BE HONEST, THEY'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO TAKE A LOT OF OUTREACH STEPS ANYWAY --
MR. JENSEN: OKAY.
MS. RICHARDSON: -- JUST GIVEN THE SITUATION --
MR. JENSEN: OKAY.
MS. RICHARDSON: -- BUT EVEN IF IT'S TO THE
RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER, RIGHT.
MR. JENSEN: SO -- AND THAT'S CERTAINLY, WE ARE, LIKE
YOU SAID, WE ARE IN A NATIONAL GLOBAL PANDEMIC SO CERTAINLY WE WANT TO
20
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO NEED -- NEED THAT LITTLE HELP AND MAY
NEED A HANDOFF ARE ABLE TO GET IT. BUT WHAT SORT OF OUTREACH WOULD THE
UTILITY COMPANY HAVE TO DO, IS IT A PHONE CALL? IS IT A CERTIFIED LETTER?
IS IT KNOCKING ON THE DOOR TO FIND OUT?
MS. RICHARDSON: WELL, WE LEAVE THE LANGUAGE
VERY OPEN FOR PROVIDERS TO DETERMINE WHAT'S THE BEST AND MAYBE
COST-EFFECTIVE OR MOST EFFECTIVE WAY FOR THEM TO REACH OUT TO THEIR
CONSUMERS. AS STATED HERE PREVIOUSLY, EVERYONE IS GETTING A BILL FROM
THEIR PROVIDERS ON A MONTHLY BASIS. IT'S EASY TO THROW A PARAGRAPH OR
TWO IN THE BILL STATEMENT LETTING FOLKS KNOW WHAT'S AVAILABLE TO THEM. I
-- YOU KNOW, THEY CAN SEND E-MAILS, DIGITAL IS PRETTY, YOU KNOW, GOOD
THESE DAYS, YOU KNOW.
MR. JENSEN: WELL, THAT'S AS LONG AS THEIR POWER'S
NOT BEING SHUT OFF.
MS. RICHARDSON: AS LONG AS THEY DON'T SHUT IT
OFF, HELLO.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. JENSEN: SO -- SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS. I DO HAVE A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS BASED
ON THE 25 EMPLOYEE ISSUE.
MS. RICHARDSON: OKAY.
MR. JENSEN: SO I KNOW IT WAS AMENDED TO HAVE
THE 25 OR FEWER, AND -- SO WHAT TYPE OF EMPLOYEES IN THAT NUMBER, IS IT
FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES, IS IT PART-TIME EMPLOYEES? SO IF SOMEBODY WORKS
A 20-HOUR WORK WEEK, DO THEY COUNT FOR HALF AN EMPLOYEE OR DO THEY
21
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
COUNT AS A FULL -- FULL EMPLOYEE? IF SOMEBODY IS AN UNPAID INTERN, DO
THEY COUNT TOWARDS THE EMPLOYEE NUMBER?
MS. RICHARDSON: YEAH, WE ARE JUST TALKING
ABOUT 25 EMPLOYEES PERIOD. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU ARE PART-TIME OR
FULL-TIME.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. AND SO SAY I'M A SMALL
BUSINESS.
MS. RICHARDSON: MM-HMM.
MR. JENSEN: I HAVE -- I MAYBE HAVE 100
EMPLOYEES AND I HAVE --
MS. RICHARDSON: YOU ARE NOT A SMALL BUSINESS
UNDER THE DEFINITION.
MR. JENSEN: AND THAT'S WHERE I'M GOING WITH THE
QUESTION. IF I HAVE -- YOU KNOW, I'M BASED IN ROCHESTER BUT I MAY
HAVE OFFICES IN BUFFALO, ROCHESTER, SYRACUSE, ALBANY, AND I HAVE 100
EMPLOYEES ACROSS MY SMALL BUSINESS BUT I MAYBE HAVE 50 IN
ROCHESTER, SO I WOULDN'T BE COVERED UNDER THE LEGISLATION, BUT I MAY
HAVE 20 IN -- 20 IN BUFFALO, 20 IN SYRACUSE AND TEN IN ALBANY. ARE MY
THREE LOCATIONS THAT HAVE LESS THAN 25, ARE THEY COVERED? OR IS IT
BECAUSE THE LARGER ORGANIZATION HAS OVER 25 I'M NOT COVERED FOR ANY OF
MY LOCATIONS?
MS. RICHARDSON: BECAUSE THE LARGER
ORGANIZATION HAS OVER 25, YOU ARE NOT CONSTITUTED TO BE A SMALL
BUSINESS UNDER THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
22
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MS. RICHARDSON: YOU ARE SO WELCOME.
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. ANGELINO.
MR. ANGELINO: WILL THE SPEAKER YIELD? EXCUSE
ME, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WILL YOU YIELD, MS.
RICHARDSON? HE JUST GAVE YOU A RAISE, BY THE WAY.
MS. RICHARDSON: OH, ABSOLUTELY, MR. SPEAKER.
MR. ANGELINO: HELLO, IT'S NICE TO SEE YOU HERE ON
THE FLOOR.
MS. RICHARDSON: THANK YOU. THAT'S MY
NEIGHBOR.
MR. ANGELINO: YES, WE ARE NEIGHBORS IN THE
LOB.
MS. RICHARDSON: IN THE LOB, YEAH. IN THE LOB.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. ANGELINO: REAL QUICK. WHAT -- WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT HERE, THE MORATORIUM ON SOME OF THESE, DOES THIS ABSOLVE
THE CUSTOMER FROM PAYING THE BILL?
MS. RICHARDSON: ABSOLUTELY NOT. ALL NEW
YORKERS ARE REQUIRED TO PAY THEIR BILLS. ALL WE ARE SIMPLY DOING IS
GIVING INDIVIDUALS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET INTO A PAYMENT AGREEMENT
WITHOUT PENALTY SO THAT THEY CAN AVOID HAVING THEIR UTILITIES SHUT OFF,
BUT WE ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LET ANYONE OFF THE HOOK. FOLKS MUST PAY THEIR
23
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
BILLS.
MR. ANGELINO: ARE WE DIGGING THEM DEEPER INTO
DEBT BY PUTTING THIS OFF?
MS. RICHARDSON: ABSOLUTELY NOT, BECAUSE AS
PREVIOUSLY STATED HERE ON THE FLOOR, WE HAVE PROVIDED FISCAL RELIEF THAT
CONSUMERS CAN APPLY FOR, SO I DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE PUTTING INDIVIDUALS
FURTHER INTO DEBT. LOOK, ONE CAN ARGUE THAT NATURALLY BY WAY OF THIS
PANDEMIC, A LOT OF PEOPLE WENT INTO DEBT BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE
SIMPLY LOST THEIR EMPLOYMENT. BUT RIGHT NOW AS THE SAYING GOES, YOU
CAN'T GET BLOOD FROM A STONE. YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE TO
PAY.
MR. ANGELINO: BUT THEY CAN DISCONTINUE THEIR
SERVICE BECAUSE -- YOU CAN'T GET IT FOR FREE WITHOUT PASSING IT ON.
EVENTUALLY, SOMEBODY HAS TO PAY.
MS. RICHARDSON: WELL, LISTEN. WHEN YOU TALK
THEY CAN DISCONTINUE THEIR SERVICE, SHOULD PEOPLE BE IN THE DARK?
SHOULD PEOPLE BE WITHOUT GAS? SHOULD PEOPLE BE WITHOUT WATER IN A
PANDEMIC BECAUSE THEY CAN'T PAY AND LOST THEIR JOB? I'M ASKING THAT
RHETORICAL BECAUSE I KNOW YOU KNOW THE ANSWER, IT'S NO. SO I THINK
THAT, AGAIN, WE ARE HERE TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW
YORK AND WHILE IT MAY NOT BE IDEAL FOR THE PROFIT, WE ARE -- WE ARE
PUTTING PEOPLE AND THE NECESSARY SERVICES FIRST AND WE ARE NOT JUST
PUTTING THIS MORATORIUM, BUT WE ARE ALSO PROVIDING A FISCAL AVENUE FOR
THOSE WHO QUALIFY TO GET RELIEF. SO I THINK THAT IT IS NOT THE MOST IDEAL
SITUATION, BUT IN THIS TIME WE HAVE TO BE LIKE A RUBBER BAND AND BE
24
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
FLEXIBLE.
MR. ANGELINO: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.
ANGELINO.
MR. ANGELINO: IF WE REALLY WANTED TO HELP THESE
PEOPLE, RENTERS, PEOPLE WHO ARE IN -- IN A BIND BECAUSE OF THE
PANDEMIC, WE'D BE RELEASING THE $1.3 BILLION THAT THE STATE IS SITTING ON,
THE FEDERAL MONEY THAT WAS SENT TO US IN DECEMBER TO HELP WITH
RENTERS AND SMALL BUSINESSES PAY RENT. THAT WOULD HELP MAYBE FREE UP
SOME MONEY THAT THEY COULD PAY THEIR UTILITY BILLS. AND I DON'T KNOW
HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN INTO MY DISTRICT, BUT I HAVE A VILLAGE OF
HANCOCK THAT HAS A FAMILY-OWNED TELECOMMUNICATION COMPANY
PROVIDING TELEPHONE, TELEVISION, AND INTERNET SERVICE. IT'S A FAMILY-RUN
BUSINESS, THE WRIGHTER FAMILY, IT'S BOB JR. AND SR., AND I THINK THERE'S A
NIECE OR A NEPHEW. I THINK TOTAL THEY DON'T HAVE 25 EMPLOYEES AND
THEY'RE PROVIDING THIS. THERE'S NO WAY THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE THIS
WITHOUT GETTING PAID SOMEHOW SOME WAY. THIS IS A SMALL BUSINESS
THAT HAPPENS TO BE PROVIDING THIS, AND I'VE GOT TO LOOK OUT FOR THEM.
SO I WOULD URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO THINK LONG AND HARD
ABOUT THIS BEFORE WE START PASSING MORE SOCIAL LEGISLATION LIKE THIS.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. GOODELL.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
25
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. RICHARDSON, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MS. RICHARDSON: ABSOLUTELY, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ABSOLUTELY.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.
RICHARDSON. JUST TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE'S CLEAR, THIS IS -- IF YOU'RE AN
INDIVIDUAL, IT'S TRIGGERED BY A CHANGE IN FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES, RIGHT?
MS. RICHARDSON: YES, MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: AND SO IF THERE IS NO CHANGE IN
YOUR FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES THEN YOU'RE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ANY OF THIS
RELIEF?
MS. RICHARDSON: NO, YOU ARE NOT, MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, IF YOU ARE A
SENIOR CITIZEN ON SOCIAL SECURITY, OR SSI, OR DISABILITY WITH NO OTHER
INCOME, OR A RETIREE WITH NO OTHER INCOME AND OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT
CHANGING, YOU WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE UNDER THIS, CORRECT?
MS. RICHARDSON: I'M SORRY, MR. GOODELL, CAN
YOU SAY IT AGAIN?
MR. GOODELL: CERTAINLY. SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, IF
YOU'RE ON SOCIAL SECURITY, YOU'RE A SENIOR CITIZEN, OR A DISABILITY, OR A
RETIREMENT INCOME THAT'S A FIXED INCOME, YOU WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR
ANY OF THE RELIEF UNDER THIS PROGRAM SINCE YOUR INCOME OR YOUR
FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES DIDN'T CHANGE, CORRECT?
MS. RICHARDSON: YOU STILL GET THE MORATORIUM,
26
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MR. GOODELL. AGAIN, IF -- IF FOLKS WHO ARE ON THAT FIXED INCOME AS YOU
ARE SAYING AND STILL HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF SERVICE PRIOR TO THE
PANDEMIC AND WERE SUCCESSFULLY PAYING THEIR BILLS, THEN THEY SHOULD
JUST CONTINUE TO PAY --
MR. GOODELL: I -- I WOULD CERTAINLY AGREE --
MS. RICHARDSON: -- BUT THEY -- THEY WOULD STILL
FALL UNDER, YES.
MR. GOODELL: I WOULD CERTAINLY AGREE WITH THAT.
MS. RICHARDSON: YES.
MR. GOODELL: AS YOU KNOW, MANY OF OUR
PROGRAMS HAVE INCOME THRESHOLDS BASED ON POVERTY, YOU KNOW, 100
PERCENT, 150, 200 PERCENT OF POVERTY. IS THERE ANY INCOME THRESHOLD IN
THIS BILL?
MS. RICHARDSON: NO, MR. GOODELL, NO INCOME
THRESHOLD IN THIS BILL.
MR. GOODELL: SO IN THEORY, YOU COULD BE EARNING
FIVE, TEN TIMES THE POVERTY LIMIT AND STILL BE ELIGIBLE, CORRECT?
MS. RICHARDSON: IT IS A MORATORIUM ACROSS THE
STATE LIKE A BLANKET, YES, MR. GOODELL, BUT YET AGAIN, MUCH LIKE WITH
OTHER SECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN EFFECTED BY THIS PANDEMIC, WE ARE
LOOKING TO NEW YORKERS TO DO THE RIGHT THING TO PAY. SO IF SOMEONE IS
MAKING FIVE, TEN, 100 TIMES, SOUNDS LIKE THAT PERSON HAS SOME MONEY
AND CAN AFFORD THEIR LIGHT, GAS, AND WATER BILL; THEY SHOULD PAY THEIR
BILL.
MR. GOODELL: I WOULD CERTAINLY HOPE SO, AND
27
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
LIKEWISE, WITH ASSETS, THERE'S NO ASSET LIMITATION LIKE WE NORMALLY HAVE
ON MOST OF OUR SOCIAL SERVICES PROGRAMS?
MS. RICHARDSON: NO, MR. GOODELL. IT'S A
MORATORIUM ACROSS THE STATE.
MR. GOODELL: NOW YOU MAY BE AWARE, I'M SURE
YOU ARE, THAT PUBLIC UTILITIES OFTEN HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAKE AN UNPAID
UTILITY BILL AND IMPOSE A TAX LIEN ON THE OWNER. THAT CERTAINLY IS A
SITUATION IN MY COMMUNITY WITH SEVERAL OF THE PUBLIC UTILITIES. IS THERE
ANY PROTECTION UNDER THIS BILL FOR A LANDLORD WHO ENDS UP WITH A TAX
LIEN FROM A TENANT THAT'S NOT PAYING A UTILITY BILL?
MS. RICHARDSON: YEAH, WE TOOK CARE OF THAT IN
DECEMBER, MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: WE DIDN'T RELIEVE THE LANDLORD OF
THE LIEN, RIGHT, WE JUST DELAYED THE FORECLOSURE ON THE LANDLORD'S
PROPERTY, CORRECT?
MS. RICHARDSON: THAT IS CORRECT, MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: SO THE LANDLORD WOULD STILL END UP
WITH A LIEN IF THE TENANT STOPS PAYING BUT CONTINUES TO TAKE SERVICE,
CORRECT?
MS. RICHARDSON: YES.
MR. GOODELL: ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES TOUCHED
BASE ON THIS, THERE'S -- I THINK YOU MADE IT CLEAR THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT
FOR THE CUSTOMER TO SEEK ANY STATE OR FEDERAL GRANTS, HEAP, FOR
EXAMPLE, IN ORDER TO OFFSET THESE PAYMENTS?
MS. RICHARDSON: REQUIREMENT, NO, BUT IS THE
28
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
RESOURCE THERE, YES.
MR. GOODELL: AND IS THERE ANY REQUIREMENT THAT
THE TENANT OR THE -- OR THE UTILITY CUSTOMER, IT MIGHT NOT BE A TENANT, BUT
THE UTILITY CUSTOMER MAKE PARTIAL PAYMENTS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THEIR
INCOME OR CHANGE IN INCOME MIGHT BE?
MS. RICHARDSON: WELL, REQUIREMENT -- THE WORD
REQUIREMENT, AGAIN, NO, MR. GOODELL, BUT IT IS VERY CLEAR IN THE
LANGUAGE OF THIS BILL THAT WE ARE PUSHING FOR CONSUMERS TO GET INTO
PAYMENT AGREEMENT. WE'RE NOT LETTING THEM OFF THE HOOK HERE. WE'RE
SIMPLY GIVING NEW YORKERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET.
MR. GOODELL: NOW AM I CORRECT THAT IF CUSTOMERS
DO ENTER INTO A DEFERRED PAYMENT AGREEMENT, AS YOU SUGGEST, IF THEY
DEFAULT ON THAT DEFERRED PAYMENT AGREEMENT, THERE'S STILL NO
TERMINATION OF SERVICE, CORRECT?
MS. RICHARDSON: UNDER THE MORATORIUM PERIOD,
NO, MR. GOODELL, BUT LOOK -- AGAIN, THE SERVICE PROVIDER IS GOING TO
HAVE TO PUT FORTH SOME EFFORT TO MEET INDIVIDUALS HALFWAY. CLEARLY IF
SOMEONE ENTERED INTO A PAYMENT AGREEMENT AND THEN DEFAULTED, THERE'S
SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEIR ECONOMIC SITUATION AND THAT JUST DOES NOT
MEAN THEY SHOULD BE IN THE DARK OR WITHOUT WATER. I WOULD THINK THAT
THE SERVICE PROVIDER WOULD THEN TRY TO REACH OUT TO THE PERSON, FIGURE
OUT WHAT'S GOING ON, AS THEY DO WITH COLLECTIONS, AND THEN FIGURE OUT A
GOOD PATHWAY FORWARD, WHICH IS WHAT RICHARDSON IS SUGGESTING.
MR. GOODELL: NOW AS YOU KNOW, THERE WAS
LEGISLATION PREVIOUSLY THAT ALLOWED LANDLORDS TO APPLY FOR FEDERAL
29
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
RENTAL ASSISTANCE ON BEHALF OF THE TENANT. IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS BILL
THAT WOULD ALLOW A UTILITY COMPANY TO APPLY FOR UTILITY ASSISTANCE ON
BEHALF OF A UTILITY CUSTOMER?
MS. RICHARDSON: AT THIS TIME, THAT LANGUAGE IS
NOT PRESENT IN THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, MR. GOODELL, BUT THAT IS A GOOD
POINT WELL-TAKEN, AND PERHAPS IT WILL SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY TO THIS FLOOR
SOMETIME SOON IF THE SITUATION CONTINUES TO BE WHAT IT IS HERE IN NEW
YORK STATE.
MR. GOODELL: NOW THIS BENEFIT OF THE
MORATORIUM APPLIES FOR AN INDIVIDUAL THAT HAS A CHANGE IN FINANCIAL
CIRCUMSTANCES. IS THIS A FINANCIAL CHANGE THAT'S ANALYZED EACH MONTH?
IN OTHER WORDS, IF I'M UNEMPLOYED IN APRIL BUT I BECOME FULLY
EMPLOYED AGAIN IN MAY, DO I HAVE TO RESUME PAYING MY UTILITY BILL IN
MAY?
MS. RICHARDSON: THAT -- THAT PARTICULAR SECTION
IS ONLY APPLICABLE TO THE 180 DAY PERIOD, MR. GOODELL, SO IF
INDIVIDUALS' FINANCES ARE FLUCTUATING IN THAT TIME, THEY NEED TO, AGAIN,
BE HONEST ABOUT THAT AND PAY THEIR BILLS BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY,
AS PREVIOUSLY STATED TIME AND TIME AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A, YOU KNOW, WALK
AWAY FREE AND WALK AWAY AND LEAVE THE UTILITY PROVIDER HOLDING THE
BAG. INDIVIDUALS WILL HAVE TO PAY. SO IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY
BUT YOU'RE NOT PAYING, YOU KNOW --
MR. GOODELL: DOES THIS BILL AUTHORIZE THE UTILITY
COMPANY THEN TO REQUEST A FINANCIAL VERIFICATION OF ANY KIND?
MS. RICHARDSON: NO, IT DOES NOT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MR. GOODELL: AND DOES IT ALLOW THE UTILITY
COMPANY TO REQUEST THE CUSTOMER TO RECERTIFY ON A MONTHLY BASIS, FOR
EXAMPLE, THAT THEY STILL ARE EXPERIENCING A CHANGE IN FINANCIAL
CIRCUMSTANCES?
MS. RICHARDSON: NO, IT DOES NOT.
MR. GOODELL: SO IF YOU LOSE YOUR JOB IN JANUARY
-- WELL, I BETTER BE MORE ACCURATE. LET'S SAY YOU LOSE YOUR JOB APRIL 1ST
AND YOU LOSE YOUR JOB FOR JUST A MONTH AND THEN THANKFULLY YOU GET
BACK ON YOUR FEET, YOU COULD STILL CLAIM THIS EXEMPTION FOR THE BALANCE
OF THE YEAR?
MS. RICHARDSON: YOU CAN CLAIM IT, BUT AGAIN,
MR. GOODELL, YOU CAN CLAIM IF -- SO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS ABUSE
AND PROBABLY FRAUD OF THIS HONOR SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE CREATED AND,
AGAIN, I CONTINUE TO POINT OUT TO YOU THAT IF FOLKS WANT TO PLAY THAT
GAME WITH THE UTILITY PROVIDERS, THEY WILL STILL HAVE TO ANTE UP, AS WE
SAY, AT THE END OF THIS PERIOD AND THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY THEIR BILLS. SO IT
IS IN THE BEST INTEREST FOR ALL PARTIES THAT INDIVIDUALS JUST PAY TIMELY,
AND IF THEY LOST THEIR JOB ONE MONTH AND WAS UNABLE TO PAY THEN BUT
THEN CAN PAY THE FOLLOWING MONTH BECAUSE THEY WERE ABLE TO GET BACK
ON THEIR FEET, THEN I BELIEVE THAT NEW YORKERS WILL DO THE RIGHT THING. I
DON'T THINK THAT THE AVERAGE CONSTITUENT IS WALKING AROUND SIMPLY
SAYING, OH, I'M NOT PAYING MY BILLS AND OH, I'M, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW,
THEY KNOW THAT THE DAY WILL COME. IT'S JUST, THIS IS A -- IT'S A DIFFICULT
TIME RIGHT NOW, WE KNOW WHAT THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATES ARE, WE'RE STILL
IN THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC. LET'S GIVE PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
PAY.
MR. GOODELL: AND I AGREE, THE VAST MAJORITY OF
NEW YORKERS ARE RESPONSIBLE AND HONEST INDIVIDUALS AND, OF COURSE,
THE UTILITY COMPANIES AREN'T WORRIED ABOUT THE HONEST AND THOUGHTFUL
CUSTOMERS, THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE FEW THAT CONTINUE TO INCUR UTILITY
BILLS WITHOUT PAYING. ON AVERAGE, OUTSIDE OF THE COVID SITUATION,
ISN'T IT TRUE UTILITIES ARE ROUTINELY TERMINATING SERVICE FOR NONPAYMENT?
MS. RICHARDSON: IS IT TRUE, MR. GOODELL? YOU
TELL ME.
MR. GOODELL: WELL, YES, IT IS. AND DO YOU KNOW
HOW MANY THOUSANDS ARE TERMINATED EVERY YEAR?
MS. RICHARDSON: NO, BUT I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO
TELL ME NOW, MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW THE NUMBER,
ALTHOUGH I -- I MEAN, IN THE BACK OF MY MIND IT'S IN THE -- IN THE TENS OF
THOUSANDS. BUT IF SOMEONE WAS FACING A TERMINATION OF UTILITY BEFORE
THE PANDEMIC, DOES THIS EXCUSE THEM EVEN THOUGH THEIR ARREARS
OCCURRED BEFORE THIS BILL, OR EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC?
MS. RICHARDSON: THE WORD "EXCUSE" IS BEING
USED VERY LOOSELY AND DANGEROUSLY HERE, MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: AND I AGREE, SO LET ME BE MORE
ACCURATE. DOES THIS PRECLUDE A TERMINATION OF SERVICE EVEN IF THE
TERMINATION PROCEEDING HAD BEGUN PRIOR TO COVID?
MS. RICHARDSON: AGAIN, MR. GOODELL, THIS IS A
MORATORIUM ACROSS THE -- THE STATE. IF SOMEONE HAD A MOUNTING BILL
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
PRIOR, AGAIN, THIS PERSON WOULD BE COVERED BUT STILL WOULD NEED TO PAY
AT THE END OF THIS YEAR AND/OR AT THE END OF THE 180 DAYS ADDITIONAL IF
THEY'RE ABLE TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE A FISCAL HARDSHIP.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.
RICHARDSON. I ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS.
MS. RICHARDSON: ME, TOO.
MR. GOODELL: YOU ALWAYS ANSWER IN A DIRECT
WAY, WHICH IS APPRECIATED BY ALL OF US. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER J.D. RIVERA: ON THE BILL.
MR. GOODELL: I APPRECIATE THE DESIRE OF MY
COLLEAGUE TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE NOT MAKING UTILITY PAYMENTS DURING
THE COVID SITUATION AND FACING A LOSS OF SERVICE, AND IT IS CERTAINLY A
LAUDABLE OBJECTIVE. WHAT'S INTERESTING IS WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW OTHER
STATES AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS APPROACHED THIS ISSUE, THEY'VE --
THEY'VE DONE IT IN A DUAL MANNER. THEY SAID, WE WANT TO HELP THOSE
WHO ARE HELPING THEMSELVES. WE WANT TO HELP THOSE WHO NEED THE HELP
THE MOST. AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FEDERAL RENT EVICTION MORATORIUM
IS INCOME-BASED BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GUIDELINES ON THE RENTAL
MORATORIUM SAY YOU HAVE TO BE LOW -- YOU HAVE TO BE BELOW A CERTAIN
INCOME IN ORDER TO QUALIFY. BUT THIS, AS MY COLLEAGUE NOTED, HAS NO
INCOME THRESHOLD AT ALL. THE FEDERAL STANDARD ALSO GOES ON TO SAY THAT
YOU CAN GET A MORATORIUM ON RENTAL EVICTION BUT YOU NEED TO BE
MAKING PARTIAL PAYMENTS THAT REFLECT THE CHANGE IN YOUR FINANCIAL
CIRCUMSTANCE. THIS BILL DOESN'T REQUIRE ANY PARTIAL PAYMENTS, NONE,
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
REGARDLESS OF YOUR FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES. THE FEDERAL BILL SAYS THAT
-- THAT WAS JUST SIGNED BY PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID YOU CAN AVOID RENTAL
EVICTION IF YOU'VE APPLIED FOR ALL GRANTS AND AID THAT YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR
TO REDUCE THE LIABILITY. THIS BILL DOESN'T REQUIRE ANY, ANY EFFORT BY THE
INDIVIDUAL TO APPLY FOR ANY GRANTS OR OTHER ASSISTANCE. AND THIS HAS A
VERY REAL IMPACT ON OUR UTILITIES, BECAUSE MY LOCAL UTILITIES ARE -- IS
ADVISING ME THAT MANY OF THEIR CUSTOMERS AREN'T EVEN APPLYING FOR
HOME ENERGY ASSISTANCE. AND MANY OF THEM ARE NO LONGER ELIGIBLE FOR
EMERGENCY HOME ENERGY ASSISTANCE BECAUSE THE ELIGIBILITY FOR
EMERGENCY HEAP, WHICH SOMETIMES IS LARGER THAN THE ORIGINAL HEAP,
IS THAT YOU'RE FACING TERMINATION.
SO WE HAVE A STRANGE SITUATION WHERE OUR LEGISLATION
IS PRECLUDING PEOPLE FROM APPLYING FOR FEDERAL AID TO HELP THE LOCAL
UTILITY. UNFORTUNATELY, MANY OF THESE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T MAKING ANY
PARTIAL PAYMENTS, WHO ARE INCURRING AN INCREASINGLY LARGE BILL, IF THEY
CAN'T PAY THEIR UTILITIES NOW, THE CHANCE THEY'LL BE ABLE TO PAY A YEAR'S
WORTH OF UTILITIES, OR A YEAR AND A HALF WORTH OF UTILITIES OR TWO YEARS
WORTH OF UTILITIES IS SOMEWHERE GOING TO BE CLOSE TO ZERO. AND WHEN
THEY DEFAULT, IT HAS A RIPPLE EFFECT. AND THAT RIPPLE EFFECT IS THAT THE
UTILITY COMPANIES FACING UNCOLLECTIBLE ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLE WILL SEEK A
RATE INCREASE TO COVER THE LOSS, AND THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BECAUSE THEIR
REVENUES AND THEIR EXPENSES ARE ALL REGULATED. UTILITY COMPANIES ARE
NOT ALLOWED BY REGULATION TO MAKE EXCESSIVE PROFIT. SO WHEN THEY
HAVE EXCESSIVE LOSSES, THEIR ONLY REMEDY IS TO GO BACK AND RAISE THE
RATES. AND WHO'S GOING TO PAY THE HIGHER RATES? ALL THOSE SENIOR
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
CITIZENS WHO DIDN'T HAVE A CHANGE IN FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES, ALL THOSE
RETIREES LIVING ON A FIXED INCOME, ALL OF THOSE FRONTLINE WORKERS WHO
NEVER HAD A CHANGE IN CIRCUMSTANCES. LET'S ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO HELP
THEMSELVES AND LET'S LIMIT OUR HELP TO THOSE WHO NEED IT. THANK YOU,
SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER J.D. RIVERA: THANK YOU.
MS. GALLAGHER.
MS. GALLAGHER: THANK YOU.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER J.D. RIVERA: ON THE BILL.
MS. GALLAGHER: I WANT TO GRATEFULLY THANK THE
SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD. THIS ISSUE IS ONE THAT I'VE HEARD
FROM MANY CONSTITUENTS AS A MAJOR PROBLEM IN THEIR ABILITY TO LIVE, AND
I WAS AFRAID THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE LEFT UNRESOLVED. I THINK THAT THE
ECONOMIC IMPACTS OF THIS PANDEMIC HAVEN'T BEEN RESOLVED YET. THE
GOVERNMENT ASKED PEOPLE TO STAY HOME AND THOSE WHO COULD, DID AND
MANY HAD TO USE EVEN MORE POWER AND UTILITIES BECAUSE THEN THEY WERE
DOING EVERYTHING FROM HOME. WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THE UTILITY DEBT
THAT THIS HAS CAUSED, AND I BELIEVE THAT, YES, WE WILL HAVE A
SURMOUNTING DEBT CRISIS, JUST AS WE ARE WITH RENT AND WITH OTHER FORMS
OF PAYMENTS THAT JUST HAVE OCCURRED BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT HAS
DECIDED TO PUT OUR STATE ON PAUSE FOR OUR SAFETY. WE ARE STILL IN THE
MIDDLE OF OUR COVID CRISIS AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE ARE STILL DOING
EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IS SAFE IN THEIR HOMES.
THAT INCLUDES MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO UTILITIES. AND I
35
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
AM VERY GRATEFUL AND WILL BE VOTING YES ON THIS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUICK QUESTION, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. RICHARDSON, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MS. RICHARDSON: ABSOLUTELY, MR. SPEAKER.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, COLLEAGUE.
JUST IF YOU COULD TELL ME WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SURE THAT THE
RATEPAYERS ARE AWARE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF THEM GETTING THEIR RATES
DEFERRED UNTIL THEY ARE ABLE TO PAY, IS IT THE COMPANY, THE MUNICIPAL --
OR THE MUNICIPALITY?
MS. RICHARDSON: IT'S THE COMPANY.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: OKAY. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: I WANT TO COMMEND MY
COLLEAGUE FOR THIS LEGISLATION. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT
FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE AND I'M, YOU KNOW, REALLY HAPPY TO HEAR HER SAY
THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT ABOUT PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO PAY. PEOPLE
PROBABLY ARE ABLE TO PAY, BUT THEY JUST MAY NEED TO PAY AT A SLOWER
PACE. AND WE ACTUALLY HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY IN THE GREAT CITY OF
BUFFALO, BUT THE COMPANY DID NOT DO THE PROPER ACKNOWLEDGEMENT TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
THE CONSTITUENTS SO PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW THAT THEY HAD THIS AVAILABILITY TO
MAKE THESE ARRANGEMENTS. AND SO INSTEAD OF THE COMPANY SAYING, WE
CAN MAKE ARRANGEMENTS WITH YOU AND HELP YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO PAY,
THEY WOULD JUST SEND DISCONNECT NOTICES. THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO TREAT
PEOPLE DURING THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC.
AND SO I THINK THAT SOMETIMES WE DO HAVE TO ASK
COMPANIES AND RATEPAYERS TO, YOU KNOW, INCREASE YOUR HUMANITY HERE.
LET'S FIGURE OUT HOW WE WORK THESE THINGS TOGETHER. AND SO I THINK
WHAT MS. -- OUR COLLEAGUE HAS PROPOSED HERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO
ENSURE THAT THAT HAPPENS, AND FOR AT LEAST THE FOLKS THAT I REPRESENT, IT'S
CRITICAL AND I APPRECIATE IT. SO I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HER
LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE AND I LOOK FORWARD TO VOTING IN SUPPORT OF THIS
LEGISLATION.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. ANDERSON.
MR. ANDERSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. ANDERSON: THANK YOU. I WANT TO THANK THE
SPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND I WANT TO VOICE MY SUPPORT FOR THIS BILL AS IT
EXTENDS THE EXISTING MORATORIUM ON UTILITY TERMINATION SERVICES.
WE'VE HAD CONSTITUENTS WHO'VE COME IN AND HAVE COMPLAINED AND
HAVE EXPLAINED TO MYSELF AND MY OFFICE THAT THE NEED FOR SUPPORT IN
THIS MOMENT, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC THAT HAS
CAUSED A GREAT DEAL OF FINANCIAL HARDSHIP TO MANY FAMILIES FOR A
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
REPRIEVE, FOR A BREAK, FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO PAY, AS MY COLLEAGUE JUST
SAID, IN SLOWER -- IN SLOWER INCREMENTS BECAUSE JOB HAS SLOWED DOWN,
INCOME IS NOT COMING IN AT THE SAME, AND WE, AS A LEGISLATURE, HAVE
THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROTECT THESE WORKING-CLASS FAMILIES BY EXTENDING
THIS MORATORIUM AND ALLOWING SERVICES LIKE WATER, GAS, ELECTRICITY, TO
NOT BE TURNED OFF SIMPLY FOR THE PROFIT OF THESE COMPANIES, LARGE
COMPANIES THAT WOULD SEEK TO TURN OFF UTILITIES IN THIS MOMENT OF NEED
AND GREAT IMPORTANCE.
SO I'M SO THANKFUL FOR MY COLLEAGUE,
ASSEMBLYWOMAN RICHARDSON, FOR INTRODUCING THIS BILL, AND MY FELLOW
COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE COSPONSORED THIS VERY IMPORTANT BILL. WE LOOK
FORWARD TO ENSURING THAT THE WORKING-CLASS FAMILIES WHO ARE STRUGGLING
IN THIS MOMENT ARE PROTECTED BY THIS BODY. SO I VOTE -- I PLAN TO VOTE
IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS BILL. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. BARRON.
MR. BARRON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. FIRST, I
WANT TO COMMEND MY COLLEAGUE, ASSEMBLYMEMBER RICHARDSON. I
LOVE YOUR STYLE, YOUR INTELLIGENCE, YOUR ASSERTIVENESS, YOUR BRING IT
BECAUSE I CAN HANDLE IT. I LIKE HOW YOU HANDLE THOSE HYPOTHETICALS THAT
SOME OF THE COLLEAGUES THROW AT YOU THAT PROBABLY WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
I JUST LIKE HOW YOU HANDLED YOURSELF.
THIS BILL IS VERY BASIC AND SIMPLE, VERY HUMANISTIC,
VERY PEOPLE-FRIENDLY. EXTEND THE MORATORIUM, GIVE US A CHANCE TO PAY,
EXTEND THE MORATORIUM AND GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE TO PAY; HOW COLD CAN
38
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
YOU GET? YOU WANT TO TURN PEOPLE'S LIGHTS, GAS OFF DURING A PANDEMIC,
BUT PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING FROM A PSYCHOLOGICAL AND MENTAL STRAINS
BECAUSE OF THE LOSS OF INCOME, NOT KNOWING -- THE FOOD INSECURITY, ALL
OF THIS AND YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE A BILL THAT SIMPLY SAYS EXTEND AND
GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO PAY. NOT WE DON'T WANT TO PAY ANYTHING, ASK
ME, THIS RICH COUNTRY SHOULD PAY THE BILLS OF EVERYBODY THAT'S IN NEED
DURING THIS PANDEMIC. THEY DO IT IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE THEY ARE
PAYING BILLS FOR PEOPLE DURING THIS PANDEMIC. BUT THIS IS SIMPLY SAYING
EXTEND THE MORATORIUM AND GIVE US A CHANCE TO PAY. WE ARE VERY, VERY
PROUD OF YOU. WE ARE VERY, VERY GLAD THAT YOU CAME UP WITH THIS, AND
THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE WILL APPRECIATE IT GREATLY REGARDLESS OF SOME OF
THE DISTRACTION, HYPOTHETICALS THAT ARE IRRELEVANT. GOOD WORK, MY
COMRADE; KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. I WILL SUPPORT THIS BILL 1,000
PERCENT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
RICHARDSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 1453-B. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER
WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION
IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS
PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
39
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL. THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO
SUPPORT IT SHOULD CALL THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE'LL ENSURE
THAT THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY COUNTED. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND MY COLLEAGUES THAT THIS IS A PARTY VOTE
IN FAVOR OF THIS LEGISLATION. COLLEAGUES DESIRING TO VOTE OTHERWISE
SHOULD PLEASE CONTACT THE OFFICE AND LET US KNOW AND WE WILL BE HAPPY
TO PROPERLY RECORD YOUR VOTE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU MA'AM.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, BRIEFLY TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR. I THINK IT IS DESPERATELY
DREADFUL FOR PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC TO HAVE THEIR WATER
TURNED OFF. IT'S HAPPENED IN A NUMBER OF PLACES. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S
BEEN IN NEW YORK STATE, BUT IT'S BEEN SHOCKING. WE TELL PEOPLE THAT
IT'S CRUCIAL TO STAY SAFE AND WASHING YOUR HANDS REGULARLY, AND THE
INABILITY TO STAY WARM, COOK FOOD FOR YOUR FAMILY, SANITIZE YOUR HANDS
IS VITAL TO ALL OF US. SO I COMMEND THE SPONSOR AND I VERY, VERY
STRONGLY SUPPORT THIS MEASURE. I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
40
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MR. PALMESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JUST
WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR HER CIVILITY AND CORDIALITY
DURING THIS DISCUSSION. I APPLAUD YOU. I KNOW YOU'RE TRYING TO HELP
THOSE IN NEED. I THINK WE ALL ARE. I THINK I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT WE'RE
POSSIBLY EXASPERATING A PROBLEM, MAKING IT WORSE WITH GROWING
ARREARS THAT INDIVIDUALS CAN'T GET OUT OF.
BUT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE CAN MAKE SOME
IMMEDIATE IMPACT RELIEF NOW. WE COLLECT OVER $1 BILLION A YEAR IN
TAXES, SURCHARGES AND FEES AND ASSESSMENTS ON OUR ENERGY BILLS. MUCH
OF THAT GOES FOR GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS THROUGH NYSERDA FOR WIND
AND SOLAR. I'M NOT SAYING WIND AND SOLARS AREN'T IMPORTANT PRIORITIES --
OR IMPORTANT NEED, BUT IT ISN'T AN URGENT NEED. THE URGENT NEED IS FOR
THOSE FAMILIES RIGHT NOW AND THE SMALL BUSINESSES WHO HAVE BEEN
CRIPPLED AND CRUSHED BY THESE ARREARS. WE NEED TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE
FOR THEM. JUST DELAY SOME OF THESE GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS AND PROVIDE
THOSE RESOURCES TO HELP GET RID OF THOSE ARREARS NOW. HELP THE PEOPLE
IN NEED. I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE. I THINK THE PEOPLE WOULD SUPPORT
THAT.
THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSED 24 PROJECTS FOR ABOUT $29
BILLION FOR GREEN PROJECTS. LET'S USE SOME OF THAT MONEY TO HELP THOSE
IN NEED RIGHT NOW AND GET THOSE ARREARS TAKEN CARE OF. WE HAVE -- WE
KNOW THERE'S OVER $1 BILLION IN ARREARS RIGHT NOW. WE CAN USE THAT AS
RESOURCES TO HELP THOSE IN NEED -- IN URGENT NEED RIGHT NOW AND TO JUST
DELAY THOSE FOR A LITTLE BIT. IT'S NOT GOING TO HURT ANYTHING BY DELAYING
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
THOSE PROJECTS, BUT WE CAN PROVIDE REAL ASSISTANCE RIGHT NOW IF WE WERE
ABLE TO DO THAT. AND BY DOING THAT, WE WILL ALSO AVOID REAL AND TRUE
COST SHIFTS OF HIGHER RATES, HIGHER UTILITY RATES, HIGHER BILLS TO ALL THE
RATEPAYERS, TO ALL THE CUSTOMERS. AND ALSO, MAYBE IF WE DO THAT,
MAYBE WE WOULD ENCOURAGE MORE BROADBAND INVESTMENT AND BUILD OUT
RATHER THAN DISCOURAGE THE BROADBAND BUILD OUT, WHICH I THINK THIS BILL
ULTIMATELY DOES BECAUSE OF THE FEDERAL PREEMPTION AND OTHER ISSUES
THAT GO ALONG WITH IT. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, IF WE WERE TO TAKE
THAT SUGGESTION I TALKED ABOUT, IT WOULD PROVIDE REAL SIGNIFICANT
MEANINGFUL RELIEF RIGHT NOW TO THOSE THAT ARE HURTING, FACING AN URGENT
NEED. LET'S DO THAT, THAT'S THE BETTER OPTION.
FOR THOSE REASONS, I'LL BE VOTING NO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PALMESANO IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MR. WALCZYK.
MR. WALCZYK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I VOTE NO, MR. SPEAKER. THE MESSINA ELECTRIC
DEPARTMENT HAS RESPECTED THE MORATORIUM AND AT THIS POINT, THEY HAVE
FIVE PERCENT OF THEIR CUSTOMERS BASE WHICH IS NOT PAYING. THAT MEANS
OTHERS IN MESSINA ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR THAT FIVE PERCENT THAT IS NOT
PAYING. AND I APPRECIATE THE BENEVOLENCE OF SOME IN THIS -- IN THIS
CHAMBER WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, BUT THIS IS REAL MONEY THAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT AND -- AND THOSE OTHER RATEPAYERS IN MESSINA DESERVE AN
OPPORTUNITY AS WELL. WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THE MESSINA ELECTRIC
DEPARTMENT, EIGHT OUT OF THEIR 100 MOST DELINQUENT RESIDENTIAL
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
CUSTOMERS HAVE APPLIED FOR HEAP AT THIS POINT IN TIME. EIGHT, THE
NUMBER EIGHT, OUT OF 100 HAVE EVEN APPLIED. THEY'RE ALL ELIGIBLE FOR
HEAP AT THIS TIME. THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE -- THE DELINQUENCY RATES.
THIS -- LOOK, I MEAN THE POINTS HAVE BEEN MADE HERE
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS YOU NEED TO CONSIDER WHEN YOU'RE MOVING
FORWARD WITH LEGISLATION LIKE THIS WHAT THE ACTUAL -- WHAT THIS ACTUALLY
MEANS FOR THE RATEPAYERS AT THE END OF THE DAY. IT'S A BAD PIECE OF
LEGISLATION. I URGE ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE NO. THERE'S A REASON
THAT WE HAVE THESE AGREEMENTS, THAT DPS IS IN PLACE AND THAT THERE ARE
AGREEMENTS WITHIN MUNICIPALITIES. IT'S GOING TO BE EXTRA HARD-HITTING
FOR SOME OF THESE MUNICIPAL ELECTRIC COMPANIES, SO I VOTE NO. THANKS,
MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. WALCZYK IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MS. RICHARDSON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. RICHARDSON: MR. SPEAKER, I WANT TO SAY
THANK YOU TO YOU AS WELL AS ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES FOR HAVING THIS BILL
COME TO THE FLOOR. AND I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE AISLE FOR A VERY SPIRITED DEBATE. WE ARE ONE YEAR INTO A
GLOBAL PANDEMIC THAT HAS WREAKED HAVOC ON THE LIVES OF NEW YORKERS.
INDIVIDUALS WERE FORCED TO SHELTER IN PLACE, STAY AT HOME AND AS A
RESULT, IT HAS LED TO A LOSS OF INCOME. NEW YORKERS ARE NOT OFF THE
HOOK, BUT WE DO HAVE TO GIVE INDIVIDUALS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRULY GET
BACK ON THEIR FEET. THIS LEGISLATION, WITH PUTTING A MORATORIUM ON
UTILITIES SHUTOFF AND INCLUDING CABLE AND BROADBAND IS SO ESSENTIAL TO
43
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
THE EVERYDAY VIABILITY OF NEW YORKERS TO GET THROUGH.
SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO ALL OF MY
COLLEAGUES FOR ALL OF THEIR SUPPORT, AND I KNOW THAT WITH THIS LEGISLATION
WE ARE CREATING MEANINGFUL IMPACTS ON THE GROUND. THANK YOU, THANK
YOU, AND THANK YOU AGAIN.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. RICHARDSON IN
THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE RECORD THE
FOLLOWING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE: MR. BROWN, MR. DURSO, MR. GANDOLFO,
MICHAEL LAWLER, MR. MONTESANO, MR. REILLY, MR. TANNOUSIS, AND MR.
SCHMITT. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. IF YOU COULD PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE, MS. BUTTENSCHON,
IN THE NEGATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
WE WILL GO TO PAGE 22, CALENDAR NO. 211, THE CLERK
WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06475, CALENDAR NO.
211, BRONSON, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION
TO ABSENTEE BALLOTS FOR SCHOOL DISTRICT ELECTIONS DURING A DECLARED
44
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
DISASTER EMERGENCY; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS
UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BRONSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. MR. BRONSON, AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. BRONSON: YES, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL WOULD
ALLOW AN INDIVIDUAL TO REQUEST AN ABSENTEE BALLOT FOR THE 2021 SCHOOL
BOARD ELECTION AND SCHOOL BUDGET VOTES IF VOTING IN PERSON WOULD
PRESENT A RISK OF CONTRACTING OR SPREADING AN ILLNESS. IT'S INTENDED TO
ADDRESS THE CURRENT PANDEMIC, AND THE BILL WOULD ONLY BE IN EFFECT FOR
THIS CALENDAR YEAR AFTER WHICH IT WOULD EXPIRE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BRONSON, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MR. BRONSON: YES, I WILL, MR. SPEAKER.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. BRONSON, AND I
THINK YOUR EXPLANATION IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD, BUT I JUST WANTED TO
TOUCH BASE WITH YOU ON A COUPLE OF ISSUES. AM I CORRECT THAT YOU
COULD APPLY FOR THIS ABSENTEE BALLOT EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE PERFECTLY
HEALTHY AND DON'T ANTICIPATE ANY SURGERY OR MEDICAL PROCEDURES OR
ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE?
MR. BRONSON: YES. THE BILL EXPANDS THE
DEFINITION OF "ILLNESS" TO INCLUDE A CONCERN OF CONTRACTING OR SPREADING,
45
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
IN THIS CASE COVID-19 DURING THIS PARTICULAR PANDEMIC, BUT IT WOULD
INCLUDE ANY TYPE OF ILLNESS.
MR. GOODELL: WOULD THIS NOT BE AVAILABLE, AM I
CORRECT IT WOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE IF YOU'VE ALREADY HAD, FOR EXAMPLE,
THE COVID VACCINE SINCE YOU WOULD NO LONGER BE AT RISK?
MR. BRONSON: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE THE
CASE. I THINK YOU CAN STILL HAVE A CONCERN OF A RISK OF CONTRACTING OR
SPREADING AN ILLNESS. VACCINATIONS, ALTHOUGH I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO
GET A VACCINATION - I'M VERY PLEASED, I'VE ALREADY GOTTEN MINE - BUT
THEY'RE NOT 100 PERCENT. AND WE HAVE THREE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS OF
VACCINATIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO CITIZENS RIGHT NOW AND EACH ONE OF
THEM HAVE A DIFFERENT PERCENTAGE OF EFFECTIVENESS.
MR. GOODELL: AND UNDER THIS BILL, COULD A PERSON
APPLY FOR AN ABSENTEE BALLOT EVEN THOUGH THEY'VE ALREADY HAD COVID,
AND MOST EXPERTS BELIEVE THAT THAT WOULD PRESENT A HIGH LIKELIHOOD THAT
YOU WOULD NOT CONTACT IT AGAIN; NOT -- APPARENTLY NOT 100 PERCENT, BUT A
VERY HIGH PROBABILITY; IS THAT CORRECT?
MR. BRONSON: CERTAINLY. THE PERSON WOULD STILL
BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR THE ABSENTEE BALLOT BECAUSE, ONCE AGAIN, THE
SCIENCE ISN'T 100 PERCENT PROOF AND WE KNOW THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY
STILL BE CONCERNED OF CONTRACTING OR SPREADING THE COVID VIRUS.
MR. GOODELL: NOW THIS BILL DOESN'T RESTRICT
ABSENTEE BALLOT APPLICATIONS TO THOSE WHO MAY BE AT HIGHER RISK BASED
ON THEIR AGE OR COMORBIDITIES OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE; IS THAT
CORRECT?
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MR. BRONSON: THE BILL DOES NOT EXPRESSLY ADDRESS
EVALUATING OR QUANTIFYING WHAT THE RISK MAY BE. IT INDICATES THAT IF A
PERSON FEELS THAT A RISK MAY PRESENT, THEN THEY'RE ABLE TO APPLY FOR THE
ABSENTEE BALLOT.
MR. GOODELL: IS THERE ANY ABILITY OF A BOARD OF
ELECTIONS OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER TO QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT THE
CONCERN OF POSSIBLY HAVING A RISK OF BECOMING INFECTIOUS -- INFECTED IS
REASONABLE OR NOT? THERE'S NO REVIEW --
MR. BRONSON: NO.
MR. GOODELL: -- PROCESS IS THERE?
MR. BRONSON: THAT IS CORRECT, THERE'S NO REVIEW
PROCESS.
MR. GOODELL: AS YOU KNOW, BACK IN DECEMBER
THE GOVERNOR ISSUED AN AMAZING CHART OUTLINING IN EXTRAORDINARY DETAIL
STATEWIDE CONTACT TRACING DATA FOR OVER 30 TYPES OF ACTIVITIES, BROKEN
ALL THE WAY DOWN TO TWO-HUNDREDTHS OF ONE PERCENT. APPARENTLY HE
DIDN'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED IN NURSING HOMES OR HOSPITALS, BUT
HE COULD TELL YOU WITH EXTRAORDINARY ACCURACY HOW MANY PEOPLE GOT
COVID IN A GYM, FOR EXAMPLE, OR AT CHILD CARE. THAT LIST WHICH WENT
ALL THE WAY DOWN TO TWO-HUNDREDTHS OF ONE PERCENT FOR
ACCOMMODATIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, DIDN'T LIST ANY REPORTED COVID TRANSFER
FROM THOSE WHO VOTED. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY DATA INDICATING THAT
ANYONE WHO VOTED IN PERSON CONTACTED COVID?
MR. BRONSON: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, MR. GOODELL, IT'S
INTRIGUING TO ME THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO A GOVERNOR'S REPORT AT THIS
47
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
POINT IN CONNECTION WITH THIS, BUT NO, I AM NOT AWARE OF IT. BUT THE
POINT OF THE BILL IS IF OUR CITIZENS WHO WANT TO FULLY PARTICIPATE IN THEIR
CIVIC DUTY OF VOTING BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, ARE CONCERNED UNDER THIS
EXTRAORDINARY PANDEMIC THAT THEY MAY CONTRACT OR SPREAD AN ILLNESS,
THAT CONCERN SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED AND WE SHOULD BALANCE THAT CONCERN
WITH THE DESIRE TO HAVE EACH AND EVERY PERSON WHO WANTS TO VOTE BE
ABLE TO VOTE. THAT'S THE PURPOSE, THAT'S THE INTENT OF THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION.
MR. GOODELL: MR. BRONSON, AM I CORRECT THAT
ROUGHLY 30 PERCENT OF NEW YORKERS HAVE ALREADY BEEN VACCINATED?
MR. BRONSON: I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK UP WHAT THE
PERCENTAGE IS, BUT IF YOU HAVE A REFERENCE THAT INDICATES THAT, WE CAN GO
FORWARD WITH YOUR HYPOTHETICAL.
MR. GOODELL: AND IF WE BELIEVE OUR PRESIDENT,
AND I HAVE NO REASON NOT TO, THEY'RE VACCINATING NATIONWIDE ABOUT THREE
MILLION A DAY. HE'S PROJECTING THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO RESUME
ALMOST ALL SOCIAL ACTIVITIES IN JUNE OR JULY IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. IF THAT'S
CORRECT, WHAT IS THE REAL RISK HERE?
MR. BRONSON: ONCE AGAIN, THE BILL IS BALANCING
THE RIGHT AND THE CIVIC DUTY OF INDIVIDUALS TO VOTE IN SOME OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT ELECTIONS WE HAVE WHEN WE SELECT THOSE WHO WILL BE IN
CONTROL OF OUR VARIOUS SCHOOLS AND THE EDUCATION OF OUR CHILDREN AND
THE FUNDING RELATED TO RUNNING OUR SCHOOLS, BALANCING THAT WITH THE REAL
CONCERN PEOPLE HAVE OF CONTRACTING OR SPREADING THE COVID VIRUS. SO
I THINK IT'S REASONABLE FOR US TO MOVE FORWARD IN THIS DIRECTION. WE
48
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
HAVE DONE THAT IN PREVIOUS LEGISLATION, PREVIOUS LEGISLATION THAT DEALT
WITH OTHER TYPES OF ELECTIONS. THAT -- THAT CHAPTER THAT WE PASSED IN
2020 WILL EXPIRE ON JANUARY 1ST, 2022. THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, IF
SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR, WHICH I EXPECT HE WILL, WILL ALSO EXPIRE ON
JANUARY 1ST, 2022.
MR. GOODELL: IS THIS LEGISLATION FOR SCHOOL BOARD
ELECTIONS LIMITED IN ANY WAY TO SCHOOLS THAT ARE NOT YET FULLY OPEN, OR
DOES IT APPLY EVEN IF THE SCHOOL IS FULLY OPEN FOR IN-PERSON INSTRUCTION?
MR. BRONSON: THE LEGISLATION DOES NOT MAKE A
DISTINCTION.
MR. GOODELL: WELL, AGAIN, MR. BRONSON, THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. BRONSON: THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE
TO PROVIDE BASICALLY NO EXCUSE ABSENTEE BALLOTING FOR ANYONE WHO HAS
A FEAR, WHETHER WELL-FOUNDED OR NOT, THAT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT CONTACT
AN ILLNESS IF THEY VOTE IN PERSON. AS THE SPONSOR ACKNOWLEDGED, AND I
APPRECIATE HIS -- HIS HONESTY AND FORTHRIGHT ANSWERS, YOU CAN APPLY FOR
THIS EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE PERFECTLY HEALTHY; YOU'VE BEEN VACCINATED OR
YOU'VE ALREADY HAD COVID; THERE'S NO RESTRICTION IN TERMS OF WHETHER
THE SCHOOL IS OPEN, THE SCHOOL MAY BE FULLY OPEN; YOUR BUSINESS OR
WHERE YOU'RE EMPLOYED OR WHERE YOU WORK COULD BE FULLY OPEN; YOU
49
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
COULD BE ATTENDING AND ENJOYING SHOPPING AND RESTAURANTS AND
EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR EXCEPT, OF COURSE, FOR OUR COURT
SYSTEM BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL CLOSED TO IN-PERSON EVEN AS EVERYONE IS
SEEKING TO OPEN. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT SAFETY PRECAUTIONS MIGHT BE
APPLIED OR AVAILABLE AND, CERTAINLY, WHEN I WENT TO VOTE IN PERSON
EVERYONE WAS WEARING MASKS OR PLEXIGLASS SHIELDS, WE ALL RECOGNIZED
SOCIAL DISTANCING AND SEPARATING. AND WE'RE ASKED TO ENACT THIS LAW
EVEN THOSE THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO DATA INDICATING THAT THERE'S ANY ACTUAL
TRANSMISSION BASED ON WHAT APPEARS TO BE EXTRAORDINARILY DETAILED
CONTACT TRACING DATA ISSUED BY OUR GOVERNOR.
NOW SOME MAY SAY, WELL, WHAT DO YOU CARE? AND
SOME OF US MAY ACTUALLY SUPPORT NO EXCUSE ABSENTEE BALLOTING. WELL
THE PROBLEM IS THAT OUR STATE CONSTITUTION IS VERY CLEAR ON WHAT THE
STANDARDS ARE FOR ABSENTEE BALLOTING. AND IT SAYS THAT ABSENTEE BALLOTS
SHALL BE AVAILABLE TO QUALIFIED VOTERS WHO ON THE OCCURRENCE OF ANY
ELECTION MAY BE UNABLE TO APPEAR PERSONALLY AT THE POLLING SITE BECAUSE
OF ILLNESS OR PHYSICAL DISABILITY, OR BECAUSE THEY'RE OUTSIDE OF THE AREA.
NOW WE ALL TOOK AN OATH OF OFFICE TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, AND UNTIL
WE AMEND THE CONSTITUTION, WE SHOULD NOT PASS LEGISLATION THAT CLEARLY
IS INTENDED TO CIRCUMVENT THE CONSTITUTIONAL LANGUAGE AND THE
CONSTITUTIONAL RESTRICTIONS. THAT'S MY OBJECTION. I DON'T CARE IF
SOMEBODY WANTS TO VOTE BY ABSENTEE BALLOT IF THEY'RE SICK OR THEY'RE OUT
OF THE OFFICE OR THEY'RE DISABLED. I DON'T EVEN MIND IF WE WANT TO LOOK
AT AMENDING THE CONSTITUTION. BUT UNTIL WE AMEND THE CONSTITUTION,
WE SHOULD FOLLOW IT AND WE SHOULDN'T INTRODUCE LEGISLATION THAT SAYS
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
YOU CAN VOTE BY ABSENTEE BALLOT EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT SICK, YOU'RE NOT
DISABLED, YOU'RE NOT ABSENT FROM THE AREA, JUST -- EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE
VIRTUALLY NO RISK WHATSOEVER, JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT TO.
LET'S PLAY BY THE RULES. LET'S MAKE SURE WE'RE ACTING
IN A CONSTITUTIONAL MANNER. AND IF WE WANT TO CHANGE THE
CONSTITUTION, LET'S PASS THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AND LET THE
VOTERS VOTE ON IT, ALTHOUGH WHEN THEY VOTE ON IT, HOPEFULLY THEY WILL
VOTE WITH ABSENTEE BALLOTS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE CONSTITUTIONAL
AMENDMENT. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
(PAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: LET'S START IT AGAIN.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 5545. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER WHO
WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS
REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS
PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THE GENERAL -- THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY WILL BE GENERALLY VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE, BUT THOSE WHO WOULD
LIKE TO SUPPORT THIS BILL ARE ENCOURAGED TO CALL THE MINORITY LEADER'S
OFFICE AND ADVISE THEM SO THAT WE CAN PROPERLY RECORD THEIR VOTE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. MAJORITY COLLEAGUES WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS
ONE. THOSE DESIRING TO BE AN EXCEPTION SHOULD PLEASE CONTACT THE
OFFICE AND WE WILL BE HAPPY TO PROPERLY RECORD YOUR VOTE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. LAVINE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. LAVINE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. SO I GUESS
THE -- IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, THE ARGUMENTS BEING MADE THAT WHAT
WE'RE DOING HERE PROVIDING FOR ABSENTEE BALLOTS EXPRESSLY DOESN'T PASS
CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER, BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. SO I'M LOOKING AT
THE STATE CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE II, SECTION 2, AND IT SAYS THAT YOU COULD
HAVE ABSENTEE BALLOTS WHEN THERE'S A DANGER BECAUSE OF ILLNESS. WELL,
IF WE DON'T HAVE A DANGER BECAUSE OF ILLNESS AS A RESULT OF THIS
PANDEMIC THEN -- THEN THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DANGER AND THERE IS NO
SUCH THING AS ILLNESS. THERE IS OBVIOUSLY ILLNESS ABOUT. PEOPLE ARE IN
DANGER. WHAT WE ARE DOING WITH THIS BILL, AND I WANT TO COMMEND THE
SPONSOR, IS NOT ONLY PERFECTLY CONSISTENT WITH THE CONSTITUTION, BUT
DARN IT, THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE CONSTITUTION WOULD AGREE WITH WHAT
I'M SAYING 100 PERCENT. AND EITHER WE, AS AMERICANS, FIGHT TO PROTECT
THE RIGHTS OF AMERICANS TO VOTE OR WE WILL NO LONGER BE AMERICANS.
THIS IS A CONTROVERSY RAGING THROUGHOUT THE NATION AND I THINK IT'S
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
ABOUT TIME THAT WE STAND STRONGLY FOR THE PROPOSITION THAT WE ARE ALL IN
THIS TOGETHER AND IF WE DON'T PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF OUR BROTHERS AND
SISTERS TO VOTE, WE ARE GOING TO LOSE OUR RIGHTS TO VOTE. I'M VERY
PLEASED TO VOTE FOR THIS. I'M VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. OTIS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. OTIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER AND THANK YOU,
MR. BRONSON, FOR SPONSORING THIS BILL. I AM A COSPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND
I'D LIKE TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT WE ARE STILL IN A PANDEMIC AND THAT IF
YOU LOOK AT THE STATISTICS IN NEW YORK AND AROUND THE COUNTRY, THE
INFECTION RATES ARE ACTUALLY ON THE UPRISE RIGHT NOW. THIS IS VERY MUCH
OF A CONCERN. THERE IS A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY REGARDING THE
HEIGHTENED VACCINATION RATES BUT THE REALITY IS THAT ALL THE MEDICAL
PEOPLE SEEM TO BE SAYING THAT EVEN IF YOU'VE BEEN VACCINATED, YOU CAN
ACTUALLY CARRY THE VIRUS TO SOMEBODY ELSE. AND SO WE MAY HAVE
PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN VACCINATED WHO HAVE PEOPLE IN THEIR HOUSEHOLD
WHO HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED YET AND PEOPLE SHOULD BE GIVEN THE
ABILITY TO FOLLOW THEIR CONCERNS AND STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE. THIS
ACTION IS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE DID LAST YEAR IN THE ELECTIONS THAT
WERE HELD LAST YEAR, PRIMARY AND GENERAL, TO MAKE ACCOMMODATION
DESPITE THE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION THAT WE'RE IN A SITUATION, WE'RE
GOING TO LET PEOPLE VOTE AND AS A RIGHT, VOTE IF THEY HAVE THIS CONCERN.
SO I VOTE AYE. THIS IS A -- A -- A -- A SIMPLE BILL BUT A
VERY IMPORTANT BILL TO PROTECT THE HEALTH OF OUR CITIZENS AND THE RIGHT TO
53
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
VOTE WITHOUT INHIBITION. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK YOU, MR.
BRONSON.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR. OTIS.
MR. MONTESANO.
MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FIRST, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS THOUGHTFUL
PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT'S VERY NECESSARY AT THIS TIME. IT WAS JUST
POINTED OUT, WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF AN EMERGENCY, A PANDEMIC, AND I
BELIEVE -- IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT AS THE GOVERNOR HAS ISSUED ORDERS
IN THE PAST, THERE'S CERTAIN EXCEPTIONS TO OUR CONSTITUTIONAL OBLIGATIONS
IN THE CASE OF AN EMERGENCY, ALBEIT ALSO THAT SCHOOL BOARD VOTING AND
BUDGET VOTING COMES UNDER THE EDUCATION LAW AND NOT UNDER THE
ELECTION LAW, SO IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT STANDARD.
NOW AS WE TALK ABOUT PEOPLE HAVING VACCINATIONS AND
NOT VACCINATED, I KNOW FOR A FACT IN MY COMMUNITY AND OUTSIDE MY
COMMUNITY, THERE'S TWO HOSPITALS THAT HAVE MAJOR ADMISSION OF
PATIENTS WITH COVID WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN VACCINATED THE TWO TIMES
AND ONE MONTH LATER, THEY'RE DOWN WITH COVID AND THEY'RE
HOSPITALIZED. WHILE THE ILLNESS HASN'T HIT THEM AS HARD AS IT MAY HAVE,
THEY'RE STILL SICK. THERE'S ONE IN THE LOCAL -- I BELIEVE IN THE POST OR THE
NEWSDAY TODAY OF A WOMAN WHO WORKS IN A SCHOOL, VACCINATED A
MONTH AGO, WENT TO A MEETING AND CAME INTO CONTACT WITH PEOPLE AND
SHE CONTRACTED COVID AND SHE'S BACK IN THE HOSPITAL.
SO WHILE WE THINK WE'RE SAFE WITH THESE VACCINATIONS,
IT DOESN'T ALWAYS STOP YOU FROM GETTING THE -- THE VIRUS. YOU KNOW, IT
54
NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MINIMIZES SOME OF THE CAUSES THAT YOU MAY GET, YOU KNOW, FROM IT, BUT
I THINK THIS IS A TIMELY PIECE OF LEGISLATION. I BELIEVE IT'S NECESSARY,
ESPECIALLY IN A LOT OF OUR SCHOOL BOARD VOTINGS AND BUDGET. I KNOW IN
MY DISTRICT HERE, MY COMMUNITY, THE SENIOR CITIZENS ARE A BIG
POPULATION THAT COME OUT, AND I KNOW THEY'RE VERY APPREHENSIVE TO
GATHER IN THESE PLACES TO TAKE PART, YOU KNOW, IN THE SCHOOL BOARD
VOTING. SO THANK YOU, AND I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MONTESANO IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. GLICK.
MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING
ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I THINK THAT THE RIGHT TO VOTE IS REALLY THE
BEDROCK OF DEMOCRACY AND WHETHER IT IS A LOCAL RACE, A SCHOOL BOARD
RACE, OR OUR OWN ELECTIONS WHICH -- DURING WHICH WE -- WE ALLOWED
PEOPLE TO VOTE ABSENTEE. THIS IS NOT OVER. IT MIGHT BE OVER HAD WE
MOVED MORE EXPEDITIOUSLY AND IF EVERYONE WOULD ACTUALLY WEAR A
MASK, BUT WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO, FOR WHATEVER
REASON, REFUSE TO REMAIN MASKED; EVEN IN OUR OWN HALLS THAT IS TRUE.
AND SO INFECTIONS ARE ON THE RISE, HOSPITALIZATIONS IN SOME INSTANCES
ARE ON THE RISE, ESPECIALLY AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE, AND IT IS INEXCUSABLE
FOR US NOT TO ACT TO PROTECT PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO VOTE BY ALLOWING THEM TO
PROTECT THEIR OWN HEALTH AND SAFETY, AND THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THEIR
FAMILY MEMBERS. I FIND IT PERPLEXING. RECENT POLLS SHOWED THAT 49
PERCENT OF REPUBLICAN MEN SAID THEY WOULDN'T EVEN GET VACCINATED. I
DON'T KNOW IF THAT HOLDS TRUE FOR NEW YORK STATE WHERE WE TEND TO BE
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MORE SANE, BUT IT IS CONCERNING WHEN YOU HAVE LARGE NUMBERS OF
PEOPLE WHO WON'T EVEN AGREE TO BE VACCINATED.
SO I COMMEND THE SPONSOR AND WITHDRAW MY REQUEST
AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. TO EXPLAIN
MY VOTE. SO I -- I DO SUPPORT THIS BILL. I SUPPORTED IT IN COMMITTEE,
I'M GOING TO SUPPORT IT HERE ON THE FLOOR. IT SUNSETS JANUARY 1ST, 2022.
I WILL SAY THAT IF THERE'S A BILL AFTER THAT TO FURTHER EXTEND IT, I MIGHT NOT
BE SO INCLINED. I JUST THINK THAT -- I'M TROUBLED BY THE DEFINITION OF
ILLNESS BEING VERY BROAD IN THIS BILL, BUT I'M STILL GOING TO SUPPORT IT
BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, EVEN WITHOUT A PANDEMIC THE
SCHOOLS HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME GETTING ENOUGH PEOPLE TO COME OUT AND
VOTE AT BUDGET TIME ANYWAY.
AND IT WAS INTERESTING, I WAS READING AN ARTICLE FROM
DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE THAT SAID THAT TURNOUT HAS PLUMMETED 37
PERCENT AT SCHOOL BOARD ELECTIONS SINCE AROUND 2012, AND I THINK THAT
THERE'S JUST GENERALLY BEEN AN EROSION OF A SENSE OF CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY
TO GET OUT AND VOTE. THAT'S TROUBLING, TOO, BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I
THINK IT'S WORTH SUPPORTING THIS BILL AT THIS TIME. I JUST THINK THAT AT
SOME POINT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DRAW THE LINE AND SAY, YOU KNOW,
FEAR OF ILLNESS IS -- IS NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH TO CHANGE OUR SYSTEM
UNLESS, AS ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES SAID, WE WANT TO GO AHEAD AND, YOU
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
KNOW, CHANGE -- CHANGE THE BROADER SENSE OF WHAT OUR GOALS ARE.
SO I'LL SUPPORT THIS BILL, BUT I THINK THAT JANUARY 1ST,
2022 IS A GREAT SUNSET DATE AND I HOPE WE DON'T HAVE TO GO BEYOND IT.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. IN A TIME WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE MOST RECENT ELECTION THAT WE
HAD, MORE PEOPLE VOTED THAN EVER BEFORE. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY
POWERFUL AND IT'S POWERFUL ENOUGH TO WANT TO ADD EVERY ADVANTAGE,
PARTICULARLY TO A SCHOOL BOARD RACE BECAUSE IN THOSE RACES, YOU DON'T
SEE EVERYBODY VOTING THAT REALLY SHOULD. AND SO I WANT TO COMMEND
THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION BECAUSE I THINK ANYTHING YOU CAN DO TO
REMOVE A BARRIER TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO GET TO THE POLLS, IN PARTICULARLY
FOR A SCHOOL BOARD ELECTION, IS A GOOD THING.
AND SO AGAIN, NOW MORE THAN EVER WE SHOULD BE
TRYING TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO USE THE POWER
THAT THEY HAVE. I KNOW ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND SOME OTHER PLACES
PEOPLE ARE DOING WHATEVER THEY CAN TO REMOVE THAT RIGHT OR TO SUPPRESS
THAT RIGHT. I AM ECSTATIC TO BE A NEW YORKER WHERE WE ARE NOT GOING TO
SUPPRESS PEOPLE'S VOTES, BUT WE'RE GOING TO ADD VALUE TO THEIR
OPPORTUNITY TO GET TO THE POLLS AND CAST THE VOTE. SO I WANT TO
COMMEND THE SPONSOR AND I'M GRATEFULLY VOTING IN THE POSITIVE FOR THIS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. CONTRARY TO MY
PRIOR ANNOUNCEMENT, THE MAJORITY OF THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE
SUPPORTS THIS LEGISLATION --
(LAUGHTER)
-- INCLUDING, SPECIFICALLY: MR. ASHBY, LEADER
BARCLAY, MR. BLANKENBUSH, MR. DESTEFANO, MR. GALLAHAN, MS. GIGLIO,
MR. GIGLIO, MR. HAWLEY, MR. JENSEN, MR. LAWLER, MR. MIKULIN, MR.
MILLER, MRS. MILLER, MR. MONTESANO, MR. MORINELLO.
(PHONE RINGING)
THAT'S ANOTHER POSITIVE VOTE.
(LAUGHTER)
I FORGET WHERE I LEFT OFF: MR. NORRIS, MR. PALMESANO,
MR. RA, MR. REILLY, MR. SALKA, MR. SCHMITT, MR. SIMPSON, MR. SMITH,
MR. TAGUE WHO JUST CHANGED HIS VOTE, MR. TANNOUSIS, MS. WALSH, AND
MR. MCDONOUGH I THINK. AND MR. FITZPATRICK.
(LAUGHTER)
SO THE FOUR OF US WHO ARE NOT SUPPORTING THIS, THANK
YOU, SIR.
(LAUGHTER)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? YOU STILL HAVE A CHANCE.
(LAUGHTER)
ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
RULES REPORT NO. 49, PAGE 4.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06711, RULES REPORT
NO. 49, LAWLER, SAYEGH. AN ACT IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE SUFFERN
CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT TO MOVE THE DATE OF THEIR ANNUAL MEETING AND
ELECTION FOR THE 2021 YEAR SO THAT IT DOES NOT CONFLICT WITH RELIGIOUS
OBSERVANCES; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON
EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
LAWLER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 5943. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. WE'VE GOT TWO
PARTIES HERE. WELL, THERE ARE TWO PARTIES.
(LAUGHTER)
THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL --
MR. GOODELL: YEAH, THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. WE'RE
ALL GOING TO HAVE A PARTY AFTER THIS VOTE, AND WE'RE ALL UP ON IT, I HOPE.
(LAUGHTER)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THAT'S WHY WE HAVE
TWO PARTIES.
THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE
RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. LAWLER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WAS -- I
CAME PREPARED TODAY FOR A RIGOROUS DEBATE, BUT I APPRECIATE THE FAST
ROLL CALL VOTE. THIS BILL IS NECESSARY BECAUSE THE SUFFERN SCHOOL
DISTRICT FAILED TO MEET THE MARCH 1ST DEADLINE TO CHANGE ITS ELECTION
FROM THE THIRD TUESDAY IN MAY TO THE SECOND TUESDAY IN MAY IN ORDER
TO AVOID A CONFLICT WITH A RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCE.
SO I THANK MY COLLEAGUE IN THE SENATE, SENATOR
REICHLIN-MELNICK, FOR HELPING CARRY THIS BILL FORWARD. I ALSO WANT TO
THANK LEADER BARCLAY AND THE GREAT STAFF AT 933, ESPECIALLY JUDY SKYPE
AND JASON KEHOE. I WANT TO THANK OUR FLOOR LEADER, ANDY GOODELL,
AND MARY BETH WALSH, AS WELL AS MICHELLE PELLEGRI FOR HELPING
SHEPHERD THIS BILL THROUGH. AND I WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER AND THE
MAJORITY LEADER AND THEIR STAFF ON THE MAJORITY SIDE FOR HELPING MOVE
THIS BILL FORWARD AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, AS WELL AS CHAIRMAN BENEDETTO
IN THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE FOR MOVING IT ALONG. FINALLY I WANT TO
THANK MY STAFF FOR THEIR HARD WORK IN GETTING THIS BILL PASSED HERE
TODAY, AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAWLER IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MR. LAWLER, CONGRATULATIONS, YOUR FIRST BILL.
(APPLAUSE)
ON THE 31ST OF MARCH.
(APPLAUSE)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I NOW
MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND AT RECESS AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT THE
CALL OF THE SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE ASSEMBLY STANDS
AT RECESS.
(WHEREUPON, AT 6:19 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD AT
RECESS.)
* * * * *
A F T E R T H E R E C E S S 10:15 P.M.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: THE HOUSE WILL
COME BACK TO ORDER.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER,
COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESK A ONE-BILL A-CALENDAR. I NOW MOVE TO
ADVANCE THAT A-CALENDAR.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: ON MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER. WE WILL NOW TAKE UP THAT A-CALENDAR DIRECTLY.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: THE CLERK WILL
READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03002-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 50, BUDGET BILL. AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE
LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE STATE DEBT SERVICE AND LEASE PURCHASE
PAYMENTS AND OTHER SPECIAL CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: ON A MOTION BY
MS. WEINSTEIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: I HEREBY CERTIFY TO AN IMMEDIATE VOTE,
ANDREW M. CUOMO, GOVERNOR.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MS. WEINSTEIN,
AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES, MADAM SPEAKER. THE BILL
THAT IS BEFORE US TODAY PROVIDES FOR $16.41 BILLION IN APPROPRIATIONS TO
SUPPORT DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS OF $7.1 BILLION. DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS
IN THIS BILL ARE ESTIMATED TO DECREASE BY $4.8 BILLION FROM THE 2021
YEAR AND WILL REMAIN IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LIMITATIONS SET FORTH BY
THE DEBT REFORM ACT OF 2000. AS I THINK MY COLLEAGUES KNOW, THIS
BILL IS NECESSARY FOR THE STATE TO MAKE LEGALLY REQUIRED DEBT SERVICE
PAYMENTS ON OUTSTANDING BONDS AND NEW STATE SUPPORTED ISSUANCES.
BOND SERVICE PAYS THE STATE'S GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS, LEASE PURCHASE
AGREEMENTS, SPECIAL CONTRACTUAL PAYMENTS AND REVENUE BOND FINANCING
AGREEMENTS. DEBT SERVICE WILL REMAIN UNDER THE DEBT CAP FOR THE STATE
SUPPORTED BOND PAYMENTS OF PRINCIPAL INTEREST AND OTHER RELATED
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
EXPENSES. DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS SUPPORT $67.8 BILLION IN OUTSTANDING
DEBT AND STATE DEBT, SUPPORTS TRANSPORTATION, PUBLIC PROTECTION,
INFRASTRUCTURE, SUNY, CUNY, AND OTHER EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES,
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, AS WELL AS HOUSING AND PARKS
INITIATIVES. SO I'D BE HAPPY TO RESPOND TO ANY QUESTIONS THAT OUR
COLLEAGUES -- MR. RA HAS.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MR. RA.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL
CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN YIELD, PLEASE?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES, I'M HAPPY TO YIELD.
MR. RA: THANK YOU. SO I THINK DESPITE, YOU KNOW,
THE HOUR AND UNCERTAINTY, I THINK WE'RE HAPPY TO BE TAKING UP THIS BILL
BECAUSE IT MEANS THE PROCESS IS MOVING ALONG. AND IT LOOKED LIKE
PERHAPS WE WOULDN'T CONTINUE THE TRADITION OF THIS BEING PART OF THAT
FIRST STEP, BUT WE'RE DOING SO WHICH IS GREAT. SO I JUST WANTED TO ASK A
FEW QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD STARTING WITH JUST THE GENERAL TOP LINE
NUMBER: HOW MUCH DOES THIS BILL APPROPRIATE?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YOU KNOW, SO I THINK I JUST SAID,
RIGHT, THAT IT'S $16.41 BILLION IN APPROPRIATIONS TO SUPPORT THE CASH
PAYMENTS OF $7.1 BILLION.
MR. RA: OKAY. THANK YOU. AND ONE THING THAT I
THINK WE SEE HERE, AS WE HAD LAST YEAR, THE APPROPRIATION IS LARGER THAN
-- THAN MAYBE WE'RE USED TO IN THIS BILL, AND PART OF THAT IS THAT, YOU
KNOW, LAST YEAR WE APPROVED $11 BILLION IN SHORT-TERM BORROWING. I
KNOW THE GOVERNOR REQUESTED TO DO THAT AGAIN THIS YEAR. THAT NUMBER
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SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN NEGOTIATED DOWN TO AN AGREED UPON $5 BILLION
NUMBER.
MS. WEINSTEIN: CORRECT.
MR. RA: NOW I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, SINCE THE
EXECUTIVE BUDGET PROPOSAL WAS INITIALLY MADE, WE'VE -- WE'VE HAD THE
REVISIONS TO OUR TAX RECEIPTS, WE'VE GOTTEN THE CERTAINTY FROM THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN THE $12.6 BILLION COMING, AND RECENTLY THE
BUDGET DIRECTOR SAID THAT WE HAD ENOUGH MONEY WITH THOSE TAX
RECEIPTS AND THE FEDERAL AID THAT WE COULD RESTORE ALL OF THE REDUCTIONS
IN THE EXECUTIVE BUDGET PROPOSAL. SO MY QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE
NECESSITY TO CONTINUE TO ALLOW FOR THIS SHORT-TERM DEBT ISSUANCE?
MS. WEINSTEIN: THE SHORT-TERM DEBT IS JUST THERE
IN CASE THINGS CHANGE. WE DON'T -- YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY WE'RE ON A
GOOD TRACK WITH CONTROLLING THE COVID-19 IN OUR STATE, BUT WE DON'T
KNOW THE TRAJECTORY THAT IT WILL TAKE SO THIS IS JUST AN APPROPRIATE -- DRY
APPROPRIATION THAT'S THERE IN CASE IT'S NEEDED LATER IN THE YEAR. AS YOU
NOTED, WE'VE REDUCED THE PIT NOTES FROM THE $8 BILLION THE EXECUTIVE
ASKED FOR DOWN TO $3 BILLION, AND THE LINE OF CREDIT FROM $3 BILLION TO
$2 BILLION. SO WE GREATLY REDUCED THE ABILITY TO HAVE THIS SHORT-TERM
BORROWING, BUT WE'RE HAVING IT, BUT WE NEED IT THERE JUST IN CASE.
MR. RA: ALL RIGHT.
MS. WEINSTEIN: SO THAT'S REALLY THE ANSWER. WE
DON'T -- WE DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT BEING USED, BUT THINGS CAN CHANGE SO
IT'S BETTER TO HAVE IT THERE THAN NOT.
MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. SO IS IT ANTICIPATED THAT
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
ALL OF THIS SHORT-TERM DEBT WOULD BE ISSUED AND, IN TURN, REPAID IN
FINANCIAL YEAR 2022? I KNOW THAT THE DEBT FROM THE LAST YEAR, THE
COMPTROLLER REPORTED EARLIER TODAY THAT ALL OF THAT DEBT HAD BEEN REPAID
BY THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR. IS IT ANTICIPATED THAT'LL BE THE SAME THING
WITH THIS SHORT-TERM DEBT, THAT IT'LL BE ISSUED AND REPAID WITHIN
FINANCIAL YEAR '22?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YOU KNOW, AT THE MOMENT WE
DON'T PLAN TO HAVE DEBT ISSUED, BUT I BELIEVE IF IT WOULD BE THAT, IN FACT,
IT WOULD BE PAID BY THE END OF THE COMING FISCAL YEAR.
MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. AND THEN ONE OF THE
CONDITIONS OR ISSUES LAST YEAR WITH THE $11 BILLION AND THIS YEAR WE'RE
DOING $5- WAS THERE WAS A PROVISION THAT ALLOWED IT TO BE CONVERTED TO
LONG-TERM DEBT. NOW I ASSUME ANY SUCH CONDITION MIGHT COME IN A
FUTURE BUDGET BILL, BUT COULD YOU TELL US ARE NEGOTIATIONS AT THE STAGE
THAT THERE'S AN AGREEMENT AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THIS DEBT COULD BE
CONVERTIBLE TO LONG-TERM DEBT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: I DO BELIEVE IT'S STILL BEING
NEGOTIATED, BUT IT WOULD BE IN THE PP -- PUBLIC PROTECTION AND GENERAL
GOVERNMENT, ARTICLE VII FOR PUBLIC PROTECTION AND GENERAL
GOVERNMENT.
MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
REALLY KIND OF DIFFERED BETWEEN THE EXECUTIVE BUDGET PROPOSAL AND THE
ONE-HOUSE, YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED EARLIER THERE ARE TAX RECEIPTS
COMING IN STRONGER, AS WELL AS THE FEDERAL FUNDS, IN THE UPDATED
FINANCIAL PLAN, THE GOVERNOR BASICALLY PROJECTED A STATE SURPLUS IN THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
FISCAL YEAR '21 AND '22 AND USED SOME OF THESE FUNDS COMING IN TO
MAKE PREPAYMENTS ON DEBT SERVICE TO BRING DOWN THE OUT-YEAR DEFICIT.
IN THE ONE-HOUSE PROPOSAL ISSUED BY THE MAJORITY HERE, A LOT OF THAT
WAS INSTEAD UTILIZED FOR ADDITIONAL SPENDING. HAS THERE BEEN ANY
AGREEMENT AMONG THE PARTIES AS TO HOW THIS ADDITIONAL TAX RECEIPTS AND
FEDERAL AID IS GOING TO BE USED IN THIS BUDGET?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES. SO LAST YEAR THERE WAS $450
MILLION TO PREPAYMENT, SO THE PREPAYMENT ON DEBT SERVICE FOR THE
'21-'22 BUDGET WILL BE $676 MILLION.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND THE EXECUTIVE BUDGET ALSO
INCLUDED SEVERAL PROPOSALS THAT COULD IMPACT STATE DEBT SERVICE,
INCLUDING THE SMART BOND REFINANCING, SECURED HOSPITAL PROJECT BOND
REFINANCING, REALIGNMENTS OF THE REVENUE BOND TAX FUND, DEBT SERVICE
TRANSFERS FOR MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES FUND, THE DEDICATED HIGHWAY
BRIDGE TRUST FUND AND HCRA, THE EMPIRE STATE COMPLEX BOND
ISSUANCE AND THE MTA BOND ISSUANCE. ARE WE EXPECTING ANY OF THOSE
PROPOSALS TO BE INCLUDED OR EXCLUDED FROM FUTURE BILL TEXT THAT WE MAY
SEE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS?
MS. WEINSTEIN: IT'S POSSIBLE WE WILL -- WE WILL
SEE HOW THAT IS RESOLVED OVER THERE IN THE NEAR FUTURE, BUT IT IS NOT YET
RESOLVED; IT'S STILL BEING DISCUSSED.
MR. RA: OKAY. DO WE KNOW AT THIS POINT WHAT THE
TOTAL OUTSTANDING DEBT WILL BE PROJECTED TO BE FOR THE STATE FISCAL YEAR
2021-'22? THE GOVERNOR HAD PROJECTED $67.8 BILLION IN THE EXECUTIVE
BUDGET PROPOSAL.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MS. WEINSTEIN: WE'RE -- WE'RE BASICALLY THE SAME,
$67.70 BILLION.
MR. RA: OKAY.
MS. WEINSTEIN: WHICH IS $8 BILLION OVER THE PRIOR
YEAR.
MR. RA: AND AS YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO OUR
STATE DEBT, WE'VE, YOU KNOW, INCREASINGLY REALLY RELIED UPON PERSONAL
INCOME TAX RECEIPTS AND SALES TAX RECEIPTS TO BACK OUR BONDS, AND
CERTAINLY THERE'S BEEN CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED CERTAINLY ON OUR
SIDE OF THE AISLE AS WELL AS IN THE EXECUTIVE THAT TAX INCREASES AND
THINGS LIKE THAT COULD LEAD TO CONTINUED OUTMIGRATION, WHICH WE'VE
SEEN DURING THIS PANDEMIC. IS THERE ANY CONCERN THAT WE'VE BECOME
TOO RELIANT ON BONDS BACKED BY OUR PERSONAL INCOME TAX RECEIPTS AND
SALES TAX RECEIPTS IN LIGHT OF THAT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: NO. AND AS YOU NOTED EARLIER, THE
-- OUR TAX RECEIPTS ARE HIGHER THAN HAD BEEN ORIGINALLY PROJECTED SO WE
BELIEVE THEY WILL STILL CONTINUE.
MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. I DO WANT TO, BEFORE I
THINK WE GET INTO THE DEBT CAP NUMBERS, BUT I ALSO WANTED TO ASK THERE
HAS BEEN A TOPIC OF A NEGOTIATION AND DISCUSSION ABOUT EXCLUDING DEBT
ISSUED FROM THE DEBT REFORM ACT WHICH -- WHICH THE GOVERNOR HAD
THAT PROPOSED AND DONE LAST YEAR. IS THERE ANY AGREEMENT WITH REGARD
TO THAT ISSUE IN THIS BUDGET AT THIS POINT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: NOT AT THIS POINT.
MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. SO IN TERMS OF THE DEBT
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
CAP, HOW MUCH DO WE HAVE REMAINING UNDER THE DEBT OUTSTANDING CAP
FOR FISCAL YEAR 2022?
MS. WEINSTEIN: SO THE REMAINING UNDER THE DEBT
CAP WOULD BE THE $15.4 BILLION.
MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. AND IN WHAT YEAR DOES
THE DEBT OUTSTANDING CAP REACH ITS LOWEST CAPACITY, AND WHAT'S THAT
NUMBER?
MS. WEINSTEIN: SO I HAVE NUMBERS THROUGH THE
FISCAL YEAR '25-'26 AND IT GOES DOWN TO $5.8 BILLION.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND HOW MUCH ROOM IS UNDER THE
DEBT SERVICE CAP FOR FISCAL YEAR 2022?
MS. WEINSTEIN: $4.17- -- OR $4.7-.
MR. RA: $4.7 BILLION, CORRECT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: $4.706- TO BE EXACT, YES.
MR. RA: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: ON THE BILL.
MR. RA: AND THANK YOU TO CHAIR WEINSTEIN FOR --
FOR ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS. I JUST WANT TO QUICKLY STATE WITH REGARD
TO THIS BILL, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE FIRST BUDGET BILL WE'RE DOING. DEBT IS
CERTAINLY A TOPIC OF CONCERN, PAYING OUR DEBT IS CERTAINLY IMPORTANT, BUT
THERE ARE SOME ITEMS OF CONCERN IN THIS PARTICULAR BILL. I MENTIONED
EARLIER, YOU KNOW, THE PROPOSAL THAT WE SAW LAST YEAR AND THE GOVERNOR
PUT FORWARD THIS YEAR REGARDING EXCLUDING DEBT FROM THE DEBT REFORM
ACT, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS DONE TO TRY TO GET OUR STATE DEBT
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
OVER CONTROL -- UNDER CONTROL. IT'S BEEN ESTIMATED BY OUR STATE
COMPTROLLER THAT WE ARE ONLY SECOND IN THE NATION IN TERMS OF THE DEBT
WE HAVE, ONLY TO CALIFORNIA. AND I WOULD URGE THE PARTIES THAT AS WE
CONCLUDE NEGOTIATION THAT WE DO NOT EXCLUDE DEBT FROM THE DEBT
REFORM ACT BECAUSE, REALLY, IT JUST PUTS US IN A MORE PRECARIOUS
SITUATION WITH OUR DEBT GOING FORWARD.
ONE OF THE OTHER TOPICS THAT I KNOW COMES UP OFTEN
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OUR STATE DEBT, WE HAVE PROVISIONS THAT REQUIRE
DEBT TO GO OUT TO THE VOTERS FOR APPROVAL, AND THAT'S FOR GOOD REASON.
THEY'RE GOING TO SHOULDER THE BURDEN OF THAT, THEIR CHILDREN, THEIR
GRANDCHILDREN, THEIR GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN ARE GOING TO SHOULDER THE
BURDEN OF THAT AND, UNFORTUNATELY, A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THAT DOES
THAT ACTUALLY HAPPEN. AND WE RELY ON THINGS LIKE BACK-DOOR BORROWING
THROUGH -- THROUGH PUBLIC AUTHORITIES AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR TOTAL
DEBT, NOT JUST OUR STATE-ISSUED DEBT, BUT THROUGH THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES,
IT'S MANY TIMES OVER WHAT -- WHAT IT SHOWS ON PAPER JUST IN TERMS OF
THE STATE-ISSUED DEBT.
SO I HOPE THAT THIS IS A TOPIC THAT AS NEGOTIATIONS
CONCLUDE, WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION TO, WE'RE TAKING ADVANTAGE HOPEFULLY
OF A SITUATION THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY IN WHERE WE FORTUNATELY HAVE
GOTTEN THE HELP FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT WE NEEDED. WE
HAVE THANKFULLY HAD UPWARD REVISIONS WITH REGARD TO OUR OWN TAX
SITUATION, AND I THINK THE APPROACH OF PERHAPS TRYING TO PAY DOWN SOME
OF THAT DEBT, TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT AS WE GET INTO THE OUT-YEARS WE'RE
IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION AS OPPOSED TO THE DEFICITS THAT WE MAY HAVE
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
BEEN LOOKING AT WHEN THE EXECUTIVE FIRST PROPOSED THIS BUDGET BACK IN
JANUARY, THAT WE KEEP THAT IN MIND. AND I HOPE THAT AS WE CONCLUDE
THESE NEGOTIATIONS, WE REALIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, YES AS A STATE WE TRY TO
MEET SO MANY DIFFERENT NEEDS AND THE NEEDS ARE, PERHAPS, GREATER THAN
EVER DURING THIS PANDEMIC, BUT WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY THAT WE CAN
MEET THOSE NEEDS BUT PUT OURSELVES ON SOUND FINANCIAL FOOTING GOING
FORWARD.
SO -- SO I HOPE WE KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WE GO THROUGH
THIS BUDGET. WE THINK ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS OF TAX INCREASES THAT
COULD CAUSE FURTHER OUTMIGRATION, THAT COULD DAMAGE THOSE TAX RECEIPTS
INTO THE FUTURE, AND THAT WE REALLY, REALLY TAKE A HARD LOOK THAT WE DO
WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO RESPOND TO THE PANDEMIC, BUT WE MAKE SURE WE
PUT NEW YORK ON THE BEST PATH FORWARD SO THAT A YEAR FROM NOW, TWO
YEARS FROM NOW, THREE YEARS FROM NOW AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE
NUMBERS IN OUR BUDGET, WE'RE NOT IN A POSITION THAT WE HAVE TO
CONTINUE TO RAISE MORE TAXES, TO ISSUE MORE DEBT TO CONTINUE TO MEET
THOSE NEEDS.
THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: WILL MS.
WEINSTEIN YIELD?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES, HAPPY TO.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: SHE YIELDS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AS YOU
MENTIONED EARLIER AND AS MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED, THE ENTIRE FISCAL
IMPACT OF THIS BILL IS PROJECTED AT $16.4 BILLION; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
MR. GOODELL: AND OUR CURRENT ESTIMATED DEBT IS
$59.9 BILLION BUT IS PROJECTED TO INCREASE TO $67.8 BILLION; IS THAT
CORRECT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
MR. GOODELL: SO DOES THIS BILL INCLUDE DEBT
PAYMENTS ON $8 BILLION THAT WE HAVE NOT YET AUTHORIZED IN BORROWING?
(PAUSE)
MS. WEINSTEIN: SO WE -- SOME OF IT IS FOR PRIOR
YEAR AND SOME OF IT IS FOR NEW DEBT THAT'S GOING TO BE ISSUED.
MR. GOODELL: AND SO THE PRIOR YEAR DEBT IS
ROUGHLY $60 BILLION AND THERE'S ANOTHER ALMOST $8 BILLION THAT WE
ANTICIPATE, RIGHT $7.9 BILLION THAT'S GOING TO BE ADDED UNDER OUR
PROJECTIONS, CORRECT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
MR. GOODELL: AND THE $7.9 BILLION, THE DEBT
PAYMENT ON THAT IS INCLUDED IN THIS BILL THEN?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
MR. GOODELL: SO WE'RE BEING ASKED TO APPROVE
DEBT PAYMENTS ON DEBT WE HAVE NOT YET AUTHORIZED, CORRECT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
MR. GOODELL: NOW I SEE THAT THE AMOUNT OF
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
PROJECTED INCOME TAX BASED ON THE AMAZING DOCUMENT, THE ECONOMIC
AND REVENUE REPORT THAT WAS PUT TOGETHER UNDER YOUR LEADERSHIP. AM
I CORRECT THAT WE ARE PROJECTING PERSONAL INCOME TAX REVENUES IN THE
AMOUNT OF $54.3 BILLION NEXT YEAR? I WAS REFERENCING THE CHART ON
PAGE 153 OF THAT REPORT.
MS. WEINSTEIN: I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE CORRECT, I'M
JUST LOOKING AT...
(PAUSE)
YES. I MEAN, I'M LOOKING AT THE SAME PAGE YOU'RE
LOOKING AT NOW.
MR. GOODELL: OKAY, I THANK YOU FOR THAT. SO TO
PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE, THE $16.4 BILLION THAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO
APPROVE TONIGHT ON DEBT PAYMENTS IS EQUAL TO ABOUT JUST OVER 30
PERCENT OF OUR ENTIRE PERSONAL INCOME TAX REVENUES THAT ARE PROJECTED
FOR NEXT YEAR, RIGHT, 30.2 PERCENT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU'RE MIXING
UP THE APPROPRIATION WITH THE ACTUAL SPENDING.
MR. GOODELL: THAT'S TRUE, I AM LOOKING AT THE
APPROPRIATION. WE'RE BEING ASKED TO APPROPRIATE $16.4 BILLION, RIGHT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: DEBT SERVICE PAYMENT, THE CASH IS
$7.1-.
MR. GOODELL: BUT THIS BILL APPROPRIATES $16.4-
RIGHT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES, IT DOES.
MR. GOODELL: AND THAT $16.4 BILLION IS EQUAL TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
30.2 PERCENT OF OUR ENTIRE PROJECTED INCOME TAX REVENUES, RIGHT? I
MEAN, IT'S SIMPLE MATH, 16.4 DIVIDED BY 54.3 IS 30.2 PERCENT.
MS. WEINSTEIN: RIGHT, BUT YOU'RE MIXING ACTUAL
ANTICIPATED REVENUES WITH A NUMBER THAT'S REALLY JUST A DRY NUMBER; IT
DOESN'T HAVE CASH BEHIND IT.
MR. GOODELL: YES; IN FACT, A LOT OF THIS LEGISLATION
I FIND VERY DRY, BUT I THINK THAT'S A DIFFERENT SUBJECT. SO YOU'RE SAYING
THE REAL NUMBER IS CLOSER TO $7 BILLION?
MS. WEINSTEIN: $7.1-, YES.
MR. GOODELL: $7.1-, WHICH IS ABOUT 14 OR 15
PERCENT OF OUR TOTAL PERSONAL INCOME TAX THEN, RIGHT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: I'LL TAKE YOUR MATH. WITHOUT
BEING ABLE TO DO SOME QUICK CALCULATIONS, I'LL -- I'LL ACCEPT YOUR -- YOUR
PERCENTAGES.
MR. GOODELL: I THINK YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT
OF THE PROJECTED $67.8 BILLION IN DEBT, ONLY $2.7 BILLION HAS BEEN
APPROVED BY THE TAXPAYERS, CORRECT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
MR. GOODELL: SO JUST TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE, IF
WE ONLY BORROWED THE MONEY THAT WAS AUTHORIZED BY THE TAXPAYERS
INSTEAD OF SPENDING $7.1- OR $7.2 BILLION THIS YEAR AND APPROPRIATING
$16.4- TO COVER CONTINGENCIES, WE COULD HAVE HAD A 15 PERCENT CUT IN
INCOME TAX, RIGHT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: WELL, AS YOU KNOW, AND I BELIEVE
MR. RA STOLE SOME OF YOUR -- YOUR POINTS THAT YOU NORMALLY MAKE ON
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
THIS ISSUE, THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE WAY THAT WE HAVE DEBT WITHOUT
HAVING TO GO IS -- IS ENACTED WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO THE VOTERS IS
CONSTITUTIONAL AND IT ALLOWS US TO MOVE FORWARD IN THIS LIMITED AMOUNT
THAT ARE -- HAVE GONE TO THE VOTERS.
MR. GOODELL: SO BY UTILIZING BACK-DOOR
BORROWING, A METHOD THAT'S NOT ACKNOWLEDGED IN THE CONSTITUTION AND
CIRCUMVENTING, CERTAINLY, THE INTENT OF THE CONSTITUTION, THAT ENABLES US
THEN TO BORROW A PROJECTED $67.8 BILLION, WHICH LOOKS LIKE IT'S $13
BILLION MORE THAN OUR ANNUAL INCOME TAX REVENUE; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD NOT
CHARACTERIZE THIS AS BACK-DOOR BORROWING. IT'S BEEN, AS YOU ALL KNOW,
IN SCHULZ V NEW YORK STATE IN 1994, THIS WAS UPHELD AS A
CONSTITUTIONAL WAY TO BORROW FOR OUR STATE, SO IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT
BACKDOOR. THIS IS A CONSTITUTIONAL CONSTRUCT THAT WE -- WE USE IN NEW
YORK STATE.
MR. GOODELL: AND I'M FAMILIAR WITH SOME OF THAT
COMPLEXITY. IT -- TO BE HONEST, IT FLIES IN THE FACE OF THE PLAIN LANGUAGE
OF THE CONSTITUTION, BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE ALTOGETHER. AT WHAT
POINT WILL WE BE ASKED TO APPROVE THE ADDITIONAL $7.9 BILLION IN DEBT, IS
THAT GOING TO BE A DIFFERENT BILL?
(PAUSE)
MS. WEINSTEIN: YEAH, SO -- YOU KNOW, AND AS WE
HAVE EVERY YEAR, THIS BILL HAS THE AUTHORIZE -- IS THE AUTHORIZING
APPROPRIATION. WE'LL SEE THE CAPITAL PROJECTS AS WE GO FORWARD IN
HAVING BILLS BEFORE US.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.
WEINSTEIN. BY THE WAY, IT IS A GREAT PLEASURE SEEING AND HEARING YOU
THIS YEAR. YOUR COLLEAGUE, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, DID A PHENOMENAL JOB
LAST YEAR WHEN YOU WERE OUT SICK, BUT IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU BACK -- BACK
HERE IN THIS DEBATE.
MS. WEINSTEIN: I FIGURED I'D HAVE TO COME BACK.
OTHERWISE I'D OWE HER SOME CASH FROM MY STIPEND.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. GOODELL: I MIGHT ADD THAT MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES WAS SAYING HER AMENS AS I SAID THAT.
(LAUGHTER)
ON THE BILL.
MS. WEINSTEIN: I DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANY MORE OF
YOUR TIME, MR. GOODELL, SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU.
ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: ON THE BILL.
MR. GOODELL: AS MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED, OUR
DEBT LOAD IN NEW YORK STATE IS SECOND BEHIND CALIFORNIA EVEN THOUGH
CALIFORNIA IS SEVERAL TIMES LARGER THAN WE ARE. AND TO PUT IT IN
PERSPECTIVE, THE TOTAL APPROPRIATION WHICH INCLUDES THE ACTUAL CASH WE
KNOW WE HAVE TO HAVE AS WELL AS CONTINGENCY IN CASE THE INTEREST RATE
AND THINGS CHANGE, THE TOTAL APPROPRIATION OF $16.4 BILLION IS EQUAL TO
30 PERCENT OF OUR ENTIRE PROJECTED PERSONAL INCOME TAX REVENUES. EVEN
IF WE LOOK AT JUST THE AMOUNT WE KNOW WE HAVE TO PAY, THE $7.1- OR .2
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BILLION, THAT'S ABOUT 14 PERCENT. IT'S AN ASTOUNDING DEBT LOAD. AND THE
CONSTITUTION, AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, STATES THAT -- IT'S VERY INTERESTING
LANGUAGE. I KNOW THE COURTS AND THE LEGISLATURE HAVE FOUND A WAY
AROUND IT, BUT IT SAID WITH CERTAIN EXCEPTIONS THAT DON'T APPLY HERE, NO
DEBT SHALL BE HEREAFTER CONTRACTED BY OR ON BEHALF OF THE STATE UNLESS
SUCH DEBT SHALL BE AUTHORIZED BY LAW OR SOME SINGLE WORK OR PURPOSE,
AND NO SUCH LAW SHALL TAKE EFFECT UNTIL IT SHALL, AT A GENERAL ELECTION,
HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE PEOPLE AND RECEIVED A MAJORITY OF ALL THE
VOTES CAST FOR AND AGAINST IT AT AN ELECTION. SO THE AMOUNT THAT'S BEEN
APPROVED OUT OF THE $67.8 BILLION PROJECTED DEBT IS ONLY $2.7 BILLION.
IT'S A SMALL FRACTION.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THE LEGISLATURE AND WITH THE IMPLICIT
APPROVAL OR EVEN EXPLICIT APPROVAL OF THE COURT SYSTEM HAS FIGURED OUT
A WAY AROUND ALL THIS LANGUAGE IN THE CONSTITUTION, BUT I WOULD SUGGEST
THAT THE VOTERS WHO APPROVED THAT LANGUAGE REALLY MEANT IT AND REALLY
WANTED TO CONTROL THE AMOUNT OF DEBT THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR. AND IF
THE VOTERS REALIZED THAT THEY COULD HAVE A 30 PERCENT TAX CUT IF WE
DIDN'T HAVE TO APPROPRIATE $16.4 BILLION, I THINK THEY WOULD BE QUITE
CONCERNED ABOUT HOW WE TAKE UP A BILL AFTER ALMOST ALL THE HARD-
WORKING NEW YORKERS ARE ASLEEP BECAUSE IT'S WAY PAST THEIR BEDTIME
AND PASS IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. FOR THOSE REASONS, I'LL BE VOTING
AGAINST IT AND RECOMMEND THE SAME TO MY COLLEAGUES. THANK YOU,
MADAM SPEAKER AND, AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MS. WEINSTEIN FROM ALL OF
US.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MR. BROWN.
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MR. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL
CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN YIELD FOR ONE QUESTION?
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: WILL MS.
WEINSTEIN YIELD?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES, BE HAPPY TO.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MS. WEINSTEIN
YIELDS.
MR. BROWN: CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN, I REALIZE THAT
I'M A FRESHMAN IN THIS HOUSE, BUT I'M ASTOUNDED TO HEAR FOR THE FIRST
TIME THAT THE COMPTROLLER RANKS NEW YORK STATE AS THE SECOND MOST
INDEBTED STATE BEHIND CALIFORNIA, AND I JUST DID A QUICK GOOGLE SEARCH
TO FIND THAT THE POPULATION OF CALIFORNIA IS 40 MILLION PEOPLE, WHEREAS
THE POPULATION OF NEW YORK IS 19.5-. SO I JUST HAVE ONE SIMPLE
QUESTION: FOR EVERY TAX DOLLAR IN REVENUE THAT NEW YORK RECEIVES,
HOW MUCH IS -- IS USED FOR DEBT SERVICING?
MS. WEINSTEIN: HOLD ON ONE MOMENT, LET ME JUST
LOOK THROUGH MY NOTES.
MR. BROWN: SURE.
(PAUSE)
MS. WEINSTEIN: UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T BELIEVE I
HAVE AN ACTUAL -- ACTUAL NUMBER HERE FOR YOU, BUT I WOULD JUST REMIND
YOU, AS OTHERS, THAT THIS DEBT SUPPORTS, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, SUNY
PROJECTS, CUNY, EDUCATION FACILITIES, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS
THROUGHOUT THE STATE, HOUSING, PARK INITIATIVES, TRANSPORTATION
INITIATIVES. SO, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO HAVE -- MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE
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BEST INFRASTRUCTURE WE -- WE HAVE.
MR. BROWN: AND I CAN APPRECIATE THAT. I DO KNOW
THAT BOTH THE IRS AND THE NEW YORK STATE OFFICE OF TAXATION AND
FINANCE, WHEN THEY PUT OUT THE TAX FORM FOR TAXPAYERS TO ACTUALLY PAY
THEIR TAXES, IT USUALLY HAS A PIE CHART ON THE BACK AND IT USUALLY SHOWS
WHAT THE LEVEL OF DEBT SERVICE IS FOR EVERY DOLLAR THAT'S BROUGHT IN. SO
I'M JUST ASKING, AND I APOLOGIZE, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE TAXPAYERS OF
NEW YORK STATE DESERVE TO KNOW JUST HOW MUCH OF THEIR MONEY THAT'S
GOING TO PAY TAXES IS BEING USED FOR ACTUAL SERVICES VERSUS HOW MUCH
IS BEING USED FOR DEBT SERVICE. AND I JUST WANT TO ADD, AS A SMALL
BUSINESS OWNER, THIS IS HOW I ALWAYS RUN MY BUSINESS AND I THINK IT'S A
REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO.
MS. WEINSTEIN: SO I BELIEVE THAT DEBT -- YOU
KNOW -- DEBT PER CAPITA IS APPROXIMATELY $3,000.
MR. BROWN: AND -- $3,000 PER PERSON IN NEW
YORK STATE?
MS. WEINSTEIN: PER PERSON, YES.
MR. BROWN: SO EVERY PERSON, IF THEY PAID $3,000
TO THE OFFICE OF TAXATION AND FINANCE WOULD WIPE OUT THE DEBT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YEAH -- YES.
MR. BROWN: OKAY. AND JUST, IF YOU COULD EDUCATE
ME SINCE I AM A FRESHMAN MEMBER, HAS THAT NUMBER STAYED THE SAME
OVER THE PAST COUPLE YEARS OR IS IT GROWING?
MS. WEINSTEIN: IT'S BEEN -- IT HAS BEEN GROWING
SLIGHTLY OVER THE, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON THE TIME FRAME THAT YOU'RE
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LOOKING AT.
MR. BROWN: OKAY. AND IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, IF YOU
COULD LET ME KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS, I'D BE VERY CURIOUS DURING THE
BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT PERCENTAGE OF DEBT SERVICE
IS. SO AT ANY POINT IN TIME, IF YOU COULD RELAY THAT TO MR. RA, I'D BE
CURIOUS.
SO ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.
MS. WEINSTEIN: WE DO HAVE A CHART THAT WE CAN
SHARE.
MR. BROWN: OKAY.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: ON THE BILL.
MR. BROWN: I WANT TO THANK CHAIRWOMAN
WEINSTEIN FOR -- FOR HER ANSWERS TO THE QUESTION BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M
SITTING HERE A LITTLE PERPLEXED AT THE FISCAL POLICY OF THIS STATE. IT SEEMS
TO ME THAT, YOU KNOW, AS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER I KNOW THAT I CAN'T
RUN MY BUSINESS LIKE THIS AND IT'S NOT VERY SUSTAINABLE TO CONTINUE TO
HAVE DEBT SERVICE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF -- OF $3,000 PER PERSON FOR
EVERY PERSON THAT LIVES IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AND THE FACT THAT
WE'RE THE SECOND-MOST INDEBTED STATE BEHIND CALIFORNIA IS REALLY
TROUBLING ON TOP OF THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A POPULATION THAT'S LESS THAN
HALF OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. SO BASED ON THAT, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE
NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MR. SMULLEN.
MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE?
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MS. WEINSTEIN: SURE, HAPPY TO.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: SHE YIELDS.
MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIR
WEINSTEIN. I REALLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS NEW YORK
STATE'S DEBT HERE, HEADING TOWARDS MIDNIGHT ON A MESSAGE OF NECESSITY
AS WE TYPICALLY DO IN THE BUDGET SORT OF THING. THIS IS A BIT OF AN
UNUSUAL YEAR IN THAT WE'VE HAD QUITE A BIT OF FEDERAL MONEY BEING SENT
TO NEW YORK STATE TO RESPOND TO THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC, AND I JUST
HAVE A -- MY FIRST QUESTION I THINK IS FAIRLY SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD,
IS ARE WE USING ANY OF THIS FEDERAL MONEY TO PAY ANY OF NEW YORK
STATE'S PAST DEBTS THAT WE HAVE INCURRED IN ORDER TO LIGHTEN THE STATE'S
LOAD ON DEBT SO WE CAN HAVE THAT SPACE TO POTENTIALLY BORROW
(INAUDIBLE) DURING THIS CRISIS?
MS. WEINSTEIN: SO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN THE SHORT
ANSWER WOULD BE NO TO YOU THAT WE'RE NOT DOING THE FEDERAL DOLLARS.
THE FEDERAL DOLLARS IS GOING TO RESTORE WHAT WERE PROJECTED CUTS
BECAUSE OF LOSS OF REVENUE THAT WE HAD BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC, AND
OUR LOSS OF SALES TAX, AND PERSONAL INCOME TAX AND OTHER HITS THAT THE
STATE TOOK.
MR. SMULLEN: SURE. NOW HAD WE ACTUALLY HAD A
LOSS OF REVENUE AT THIS POINT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: WE -- WE STARTED THE YEAR WITH A
LOSS OF REVENUE.
MR. SMULLEN: AT THIS POINT.
MS. WEINSTEIN: AT THIS POINT --
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MR. SMULLEN: -- FOR NEXT YEAR --
MS. WEINSTEIN: WE STILL ARE -- WE STILL ARE A LITTLE
BIT BELOW WHERE WE WERE LAST YEAR.
MR. SMULLEN: HOW MUCH?
MS. WEINSTEIN: I KNOW IT -- A COUPLE OF BILLION --
I KNOW THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A COUPLE OF BILLION AND, YOU
KNOW, AN EXACT NUMBER. I ALWAYS SAY TO MY CONSTITUENTS WHEN I'M IN
ALBANY TALKING MILLIONS AND BILLIONS BUT WHEN I'M BACK HOME, IT'S $10
AND $20.
MR. SMULLEN: NO, I UNDERSTAND. IN THE PENTAGON,
WE USED TO TALK BILLIONS ALL THE TIME SORT OF THING AND IT WAS -- IT WAS --
YOU KNOW, A FEW BILLION HERE, AND A FEW BILLION THERE AND PRETTY SOON
YOU'RE TALKING REAL MONEY SORT OF THING.
MS. WEINSTEIN: YOU GOT IT.
MR. SMULLEN: I'M VERY -- I'M VERY CONCERNED, YOU
KNOW, FOR OUR DEBT LOAD THAT WE'RE CARRYING, NOT ONLY AT THE STATE LEVEL
BUT AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, PARTICULARLY WITH THIS CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC
AND WITH THE MONEY THAT WAS BORROWED WITH THE FIRST COUPLE ROUNDS OF
STIMULUS AND NOW THE $1.9 TRILLION THAT'S BEEN BEING BORROWED, AND
WE'RE TALKING NOW ABOUT A $2 TRILLION INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN THAT THE
PRESIDENT ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT.
ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS -- I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT IS
THE USAGE OF FEDERAL MONEY TO BE ABLE TO MAKE NEW YORK WHOLE IN
THIS CRISIS SORT OF THING. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT OBVIOUSLY IS
CONCERNING THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ALREADY, AND I LOOKED AT THE 2020
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
ANNUAL REPORT BY THE AUTHORITIES BUDGET OFFICE ON PUBLIC AUTHORITIES
DEBT, IS HOW WE'RE GOING TO GO FORWARD IN THE FUTURE, NOT ONLY IN THIS
YEAR BUT IN THE OUT-YEARS AS FAR AS OUR DEBT AND HOW MUCH IT'S GOING TO
INCREASE AND IT'S, TO ME, IT'S VERY WORRISOME. YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT
SINCE WE'RE BORROWING FEDERAL MONEY AND SINCE NEW YORK IS A NET
DONOR STATE TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACCORDING TO MOST PEOPLE'S
PROJECTIONS, THAT IF WE'RE BORROWING MONEY FROM OURSELVES TO GIVE
MONEY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO GIVE IT BACK TO US AND THEN TO NOT
ACTUALLY SERVICE THAT DEBT, IT SEEMS A LITTLE BIT BACKWARDS IN A CRISIS THAT
WE OUGHT TO MAYBE BE TIGHTENING OUR BELTS AS OPPOSED TO SPENDING
MORE AND, YOU KNOW, RAISING TAXES TO SPEND EVEN MORE WHEN WE
ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE MUCH A REVENUE SHORTFALL IN THE OVERALL STATE
BUDGET. SO I DO REALLY APPRECIATE THE TIME YOU ENGAGED.
MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: ON THE BILL.
MR. SMULLEN: SO I THINK I'VE SAID WHAT I NEED TO
SAY ABOUT THIS. DEBT IS VERY WORRISOME, NOT ONLY AT THE STATE LEVEL BUT
AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL. AND I THINK ALL OF OUR -- OUR TAXPAYERS AND ALL OF
THE PEOPLE IN THE STATE THAT BENEFIT FROM OUR PROGRAMS, YOU KNOW,
REALLY OUGHT TO SEE -- TO SEE HOW THIS PROCESS WORKS. AND, YOU KNOW, I
THINK THIS -- THIS BILL THAT IT IS THE FIRST OF OUR TEN BUDGET BILLS, YOU
KNOW, JUST SHOWS HOW THE SYSTEM THAT WE'VE GOT SET UP HERE IN NEW
YORK IS -- IS REALLY NOT ONLY COMPLICATED AND CONVOLUTED, BUT IT'S -- IT'S
NOT VERY TRANSPARENT, IT'S NOT VERY FRIENDLY FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO
UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON AND I THINK WE COULD DO VERY MUCH BETTER
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AND I HOPE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THAT CONVERSATION GOING FORWARD IN MY
SERVICE HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE IT.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 50, SENATE BILL NO. S02502-B.
THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN
EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE
MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE
REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS
BILL. THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE SHOULD CONTACT
THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: SO NOTED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER. I WANT TO REMIND MY COLLEAGUES THAT THIS IS A PARTY VOTE AND
THE MAJORITY MEMBERS SHOULD BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, BUT IF THERE
ARE ANY EXCEPTIONS, YOU SHOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE IN CONTACTING THE
OFFICE AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT YOUR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: SO NOTED.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. LAWLER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. IT'S
OBVIOUSLY CRITICAL THAT WHEN WE BORROW MONEY WE PAY IT OFF, BUT
WHAT'S DEEPLY DISTURBING ABOUT THIS BILL IS, YOU KNOW, APPROXIMATELY
51 PERCENT OF OUR DEBT SERVICE COSTS ARE GOING TOWARDS PRINCIPAL, IN
OTHER WORDS, TO RETIRE THE DEBT. SO ABOUT $7.1 BILLION WILL BE USED TO
PAY DOWN THAT DEBT; YET, WE'RE PROJECTING THAT WE'RE GOING TO ADD ABOUT
$8 BILLION IN NEW DEBT. WE JUST RECEIVED $12.5 BILLION FROM THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND I'M NOT SURE IF ANY OF THAT IS EVEN BEING
ALLOCATED TOWARDS THIS. IT'S AMAZING TO ME THAT WE WOULD CONSIDER
BORROWING $8 BILLION AND INCREASE SPENDING BY ANYWHERE UP TO 15
PERCENT AT A TIME WHEN WE CLEARLY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. WE SHOULD
BE USING MORE FUNDS TO PAY DOWN OUR DEBT AND END OUR RECORD OF BEING
THE SECOND-MOST INDEBTED STATE IN THE COUNTRY. AND FOR THAT REASON, I
CAN'T SUPPORT A BILL THAT IS FOCUSED ON ADDING $8 BILLION IN NEW DEBT
AND MAKING THAT APPROPRIATION. SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: MR. LAWLER IN
THE NEGATIVE.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
PLEASE RECORD THE FOLLOWING REPUBLICANS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS
LEGISLATION: MR. ASHBY, MR. FITZPATRICK, MS. GIGLIO, AND MR. SMITH.
THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: SO NOTED.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 31, 2021
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, DO YOU
HAVE ANY HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: WE HAVE NEITHER.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THEN I MOVE THAT THE
ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, APRIL THE 1ST, TOMORROW
BEING A SESSION DAY, AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT THE CALL OF THE SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER HYNDMAN: THE ASSEMBLY
STANDS ADJOURNED.
(WHEREUPON, AT 11:02 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD
ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, APRIL 1ST AT THE CALL OF THE SPEAKER.)
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