MONDAY, APRIL 4, 2022                                                                         11:31 A.M.



                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 THE RABBI BUTMAN WILL OFFER A PRAYER.

                                 RABBI SHMUEL BUTMAN:  (SPEAKING HEBREW).

                    OUR HEAVENLY FATHER, PLEASE BESTOW ALL OF YOUR KINDNESS ON THE

                    MEMBERS OF THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  BLESS THEM AND THEIR

                    FAMILIES WITH ALL THE GOOD THINGS AND HAPPINESS AND PROSPERITY IN ALL OF

                    THEIR DEEDS.  ESPECIALLY SINCE TODAY, THE MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY ARE

                    GOING TO PASS A RESOLUTION FOR 120 DAYS OF EDUCATION IN HONOR OF THE

                    120TH BIRTHDAY OF THE REBBE RABBI MENACHEM M. SCHNEERSON.  WE

                    START PSALM 121, THAT'S THE CUSTOM, AND IN PSALM 121 IT SAYS (SPEAKING

                    HEBREW), WHICH MEANS, MY HELP, SAYS KING DAVID, COMES FROM

                    ALMIGHTY GOD.  EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US HAS SOME -- SOMETIMES THAT

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WE NEED HELP.  AND WE KNOW THAT IF WE TURN TO ALMIGHTY GOD AND WE

                    ASK FOR HIS HELP, WE ARE GOING TO RECEIVE HIS HELP.  WE WITNESS -- AS WE

                    ALL DO, WE READ NEWSPAPERS AND WE HEAR AND WE SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN

                    THIS WORLD.  AND WE SEE THAT THE WORLD IS LESS THAN PERFECT THE WAY IT'S

                    TODAY.  AND TODAY THE REASON THAT WE DEDICATE DAYS OF EDUCATION

                    BECAUSE THE REBBE ALWAYS SAID THAT HE WANTS EACH AND EVERY CHILD TO

                    KNOW THAT THERE IS AN EYE THAT SEES AND AN EAR THAT HEARS AND THAT THE

                    WORLD IS NOT A JUNGLE.  HOW MUCH NICER THE WORLD WOULD BE TODAY IF ALL

                    THE LEADERS WOULD KNOW THAT THERE IS AN EYE THAT SEES AND AN EAR THAT

                    HEARS AND THAT THE WORLD IS NOT A JUNGLE.

                                 IN 1991, I WENT TO WASHINGTON AND I OPENED THE

                    UNITED STATES SENATE.  BEFORE I DID THAT I WENT TO SEE THE REBBE.  AND

                    THE REBBE SAID TO ME I SHOULD TAKE ME WITH A PUSHKA.  A PUSHKA

                    MEANS A CHARITY BOX.  AND WHILE I'M OFFERING THE INVOCATION I SHOULD

                    PUT IN ONE DOLLAR INTO THE PUSHKA.  AND THEN THE REBBE SAID, LET THEM

                    SEE WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT MONEY SHOULD BE

                    GIVEN FOR.  WE'RE GOING TO PUT IN ONE DOLLAR IN THE PUSHKA, AS THE REBBE

                    ASKED ME TO DO.  AND LATER ON IF ANYONE WANTS TO JOIN US IN PUTTING IN

                    ONE DOLLAR IN THE PUSHKA, WE IT WOULD BE -- IT WOULD BE GREATLY

                    APPRECIATED.  WELL, I DON'T WANT YOU TO THINK THAT THIS IS A FUNDRAISING

                    CAMPAIGN, BECAUSE IF IT WOULD BE WE WOULD ASK YOU FOR MORE THAN ONE

                    DOLLAR.  AND YOU'RE DEALING WITH A BUDGET ANYWAY, OF MORE THAN ONE

                    DOLLAR.  BUT THIS IS AN ACT OF GOODNESS AND KINDNESS.  ALMIGHTY GOD

                    HAS MADE YOU THE CUSTODIAN.  THE CUSTODIANS OF LAW AND ORDER AND ALL

                    THE GOOD THINGS FOR THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  BY EXTENSION, ALL OF

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    AMERICA IS LOOKING UP TO YOU, AND AMERICA IS A SUPERPOWER.

                    THEREFORE, YOU ARE A LIGHT NOT ONLY FOR AMERICA, A LIGHT FOR THE ENTIRE

                    WORLD.  I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT EVERY SATURDAY WE SAY A PRAYER FOR YOU.

                    WE SAY ALL OF THOSE WHO SERVE THE PUBLIC FAITHFULLY, ALMIGHTY GOD

                    SHOULD BLESS THEM.  THEY SHOULD HAVE A LOT OF PROSPERITY, AND YOU

                    SHOULD HAVE A LOT OF PROSPERITY IN YOUR PRIVATE LIVES AND IN YOUR PUBLIC

                    LIVES, AND YOU SHOULD PASS THE BUDGET SUCCESSFULLY TODAY.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 (LAUGHTER/APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  VISITORS ARE INVITED

                    TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

                    MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

                                 A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    JOURNAL OF SUNDAY, APRIL 3RD.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO

                    DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF SUNDAY, APRIL 3RD

                    AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

                    ORDERED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS.  I CERTAINLY WANT TO THANK THE RABBI

                    FOR THOSE BEAUTIFUL WORDS.  I WALKED RIGHT BACK TO MY OFFICE AND

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    GRABBED MY DOLLAR SO I'LL BE PREPARED.

                                 I DO HAVE A QUOTE I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE TODAY, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS ONE IS FROM NELSON MANDALA, WHO MOST OF YOU ALL

                    KNOW WAS A SOUTH AFRICAN ANTI-APARTHEID REVOLUTIONARY, POLITICAL

                    LEADER AND PHILANTHROPIST WHO SERVED AS THE FIRST PRESIDENT OF SOUTH

                    AFRICA FROM 1994 UNTIL 1999.  HIS WORDS FOR US TODAY, MR. SPEAKER AND

                    COLLEAGUES, THE GREATEST GLORY IN LIVING LIES NOT IN NEVER FALLING, BUT IN

                    RISING EVERY TIME WE FALL.  AGAIN, THOSE WORDS FROM NELSON MANDALA.

                                 MR. SPEAKER -- MR. SPEAKER AND COLLEAGUES, YOU HAVE

                    -- COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESKS THE MAIN CALENDAR WITH SIX NEW BILLS

                    ON IT.  AFTER ANY HOUSEKEEPING WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP RESOLUTIONS ON

                    PAGE 3.  NOT SURE IF COLLEAGUES WILL DESIRE TO SPEAK ON THOSE OR NOT, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  BUT AFTERWARDS WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP THOSE NEW BILLS ON

                    CONSENT BEGINNING WITH CALENDAR NO. 511.  IT'S ON PAGE 4.  AND THEN

                    WE'RE GOING TO WORK OFF OUR DEBATE.  WE'RE GOING TO START EXACTLY WHERE

                    WE LEFT OFF LAST WEEK, MR. SPEAKER, WITH CALENDAR NO. 294 BY MS.

                    SOLAGES, CALENDAR NO. 359 BY MR. DINOWITZ, CALENDAR NO. 385 BY MS.

                    ROSENTHAL, AND CALENDAR NO. 464 BY MR. ZEBROWSKI.  THERE IS A REAL

                    POSSIBILITY THERE MAY BE A NEED SOME ADDITIONAL -- FOR SOME ADDITIONAL

                    FLOOR WORK TODAY, BUT FOR SURE THERE WILL BE MEETINGS CALLED OFF THE

                    FLOOR FOR BOTH WAYS AND MEANS AND RULES.  AND IF THERE ANY FURTHER

                    ANNOUNCEMENTS WE'LL LET YOU KNOW AT A LATER TIME, MR. SPEAKER.

                    ABSOLUTELY THERE WILL BE A NEED FOR A MAJORITY CONFERENCE, THOUGH.

                    THAT WE -- WE KNOW.  THAT WILL HAPPEN AT THE CONCLUSION OF OUR WORK

                    TODAY AND IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN HEARING ROOM B.  AND AS ALWAYS

                                          4



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WE'LL ASK OUR COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE IF THEY HAVE THE

                    SAME NEEDS.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE.  IF THERE'S

                    HOUSEKEEPING NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  NO HOUSEKEEPING --

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  -- BUT WE DO HAVE AN

                    INTRODUCTION BY MR. WEPRIN.

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE THIS

                    INTRODUCTION TO BE JOINED BUT WITH ASSEMBLYMAN BRIAN CUNNINGHAM,

                    OUR NEW COLLEAGUE REPRESENTING CROWN HEIGHTS, AS WELL AS OUR

                    DISTINGUISHED CHAIR OF THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE WHO USED TO

                    REPRESENT CROWN HEIGHTS, HELENE WEINSTEIN, AND ASSEMBLYMEMBER

                    CLYDE VANEL WHO REPRESENTS THE -- THE OHEL WHERE THE -- THE REBBE IS

                    BURIED.

                                 RABBI SHMUEL BUTMAN IS A FRIEND OF THE WEPRIN

                    FAMILY FOR MANY YEARS.  HE'S A CLOSE FRIEND OF MY LATE UNCLE JACK, AS

                    WELL AS MY LATE FATHER SAUL.  HE'S BEEN COMING UP TO ALBANY EACH AND

                    EVERY YEAR TO COMMEMORATE THE LUBAVITCHER REBBE RABBI MENACHEM

                    MENDEL SCHNEERSON'S BIRTHDAY.  THIS YEAR IS A SPECIAL ANNIVERSARY, 120

                    YEARS, WHICH IS THE -- THE AGE OF MOSES WHEN HE PASSED AWAY.  AND

                    VERY OFTEN WHEN PEOPLE GIVE GREETINGS OF GOOD HEALTH THEY SAY, UNTIL

                    120.  AND THAT'S BECAUSE THAT'S HOW LONG MOSES LIVED.  RABBI BUTMAN

                    HAS BEEN INVOLVED -- HE ACTUALLY ERECTS EACH AND EVERY YEAR ON

                    HANUKKAH THE LARGEST MENORAH IN THE WORLD, WHICH IS AT 59TH STREET

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    AND 5TH AVENUE EVERY HANUKKAH THAT THEY LIGHT THAT MENORAH FOR EIGHT

                    NIGHTS.  AND I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGES MANY -- FOR MANY YEARS TO LIGHT ONE

                    OF THOSE CANDLES.  THE LUBAVITCHER YOUTH ORGANIZATION IS HEADED BY

                    RABBI BUTMAN FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, AND THEY ACTUALLY ARE INVOLVED

                    WITH OVER 65 DIFFERENT CHABAD HOUSES.  EVERY YEAR WE -- I'VE BEEN

                    SPONSORING THIS RESOLUTION WHICH WE WILL ADOPT AT THE END OF THE

                    SESSION TO COMMEMORATE RABBI SCHNEERSON'S 120TH YEAR.  RABBI

                    SCHNEERSON ESTABLISHED 1,500 LUBAVITCH CENTERS WORLDWIDE AND

                    HELPED PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE, WHETHER THEY BE JEWISH OR NOT

                    JEWISH.  TODAY THE CHABAD LUBAVITCH OPERATES 5,000 CENTERS IN OVER

                    1,000 CITIES AND 102 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.  THROUGHOUT RABBI

                    SCHNEERSON'S LIFE, HE DEDICATED HIMSELF AND HIS FOLLOWERS HAVE

                    DEDICATED THEMSELVES TO MANY PHILANTHROPIC CAUSES, HUMANITARIAN

                    EFFORTS AND ASTUTE JUDAIC LEADERSHIP.  HE HAS TRULY EARNED THE DEVOTION

                    OF HIS FOLLOWERS AND ALL OF US.

                                 WITH THAT SAID, I AM TRULY HONORED TO BRING THIS

                    RESOLUTION AT THE END OF SESSION, AND I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE EVERYONE TO

                    A LUNCHEON BEING HELD IN ROOM 711 NOW, FOR THE NEXT OF COUPLE HOURS.

                    SO YOU'RE ALL WELCOME TO JOIN US FOR A KOSHER LUNCH.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. WEPRIN, MR. CUNNINGHAM, MS. WEINSTEIN, MR. VANEL, THE

                    SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU AGAIN TO THE NEW YORK

                    STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU, RABBI, THE PRIVILEGES OF THE HOUSE AND

                    LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR VISIT EVERY YEAR.  THANK YOU FOR REMINDING US OF

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THE WORTH THAT WE HAVE TO PEOPLE, BUT THAT WE SHOULD ALSO CONSIDER

                    THEIR WORTH AS WE DO OUR BUSINESS.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

                                 RABBI BUTMAN:  THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MS. JACKSON FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

                                 MS. JACKSON:  WELL, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WE

                    HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT GUEST TODAY.  MOST OF YOU ALL KNOW HIM ALREADY,

                    BUT THIS IS HIS FIRST TIME ON THE FLOOR.  AND AS YOU CAN SEE EARLIER, YOU

                    KNOW WHY I DON'T BRING HIM ONTO THE FLOOR.  HE GOT REALLY DRESSED

                    TODAY BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR WAYNE JACKSON ARGUE WITH HIM

                    ABOUT A BOWTIE, SO HE HAS ONE ON.  THIS RIGHT HERE IS -- WE DEEMED HIM

                    THE CHAIR OF THE BABY CAUCUS.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 HE COMES EVERY WEEK TO HELP US PASS VERY IMPORTANT

                    LEGISLATION.  MOST OF YOU KNOW HIM AS TJ, BUT I FORMALLY INTRODUCE YOU

                    ALL TO TERRENCE TRAFTON, JR.  AND WE ARE SAYING TJ IS HERE, HAVE NO

                    FEAR, THE BUDGET WILL HAVE CHILDCARE THIS YEAR.

                                 (LAUGHTER/APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  TJ, ON BEHALF OF YOUR

                    MOTHER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE

                    NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  AS

                    FAMILY, YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE THESE PRIVILEGES.  LET ME SAY THAT THERE'S

                    NOTHING MORE SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THE CHANGES THAT WE'VE SEEN AS TO HAVE

                    YOUNG CHILDREN HERE ON THE FLOOR BECAUSE THAT WAS NOT WHAT HAPPENED

                    30 YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS HERE.  AND SO THIS IS A GREAT CHANGE AND A

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    GREAT REMINDER OF WHY WE DO WHAT WE DO.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH,

                    TJ.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 RESOLUTIONS, PAGE 3, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 719, MRS.

                    BARRETT.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 2022 AS LYME DISEASE AWARENESS

                    MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NAY.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 720, MS.

                    JOYNER.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 11-17, 2022 AT BLACK MATERNAL HEALTH

                    WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.

                                 PAGE 4, CALENDAR NO. 51 [SIC], THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03719-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 511, LAVINE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    NOTICE OF ART STOLEN DURING THE NAZI ERA IN EUROPE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                          8



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 3719-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08185-B, CALENDAR

                    NO. 512, ROZIC, BURDICK.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE BOARD OF MANAGERS OF A CONDOMINIUM TO

                    ALLOW UNIT OWNER MEETINGS TO BE CONDUCTED VIA ELECTRONIC MEANS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8185-B.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                          9



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08264-B, CALENDAR

                    NO. 513, L. ROSENTHAL.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW, THE

                    PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO REPLACING ALL

                    INSTANCES OF THE WORDS OR VARIATIONS OF THE WORDS "FEMININE HYGIENE

                    PRODUCTS" AND "SANITARY NAPKINS" WITH THE WORDS "MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS"

                    AND "PADS", RESPECTIVELY, OR A VARIATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09296, CALENDAR NO.

                    514, MCDONALD.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE RETURN OF A DOG TO ITS OWNER OR CUSTODIAN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9296.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09336-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 515, BARRETT, SIMON, JACOBSON.  AN ACT TO DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS, IN COOPERATION WITH THE NEW YORK STATE

                    ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, TO DEVELOP AND PRODUCE

                    GUIDANCE AND EDUCATIONAL MATERIALS ON THE USE OF AGRIVOLTAICS IN

                                         10



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    FARMING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MRS.

                    BARRETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09598, CALENDAR NO.

                    516, JOYNER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO REDEFINING

                    THE TERM "COVERED RENEWABLE ENERGY SYSTEM."

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

                                 PAGE 29, CALENDAR NO. 294 ON THE DEBATE LIST, THE

                    CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04908, CALENDAR NO.

                    294, SOLAGES.  AN ACT TO ESTABLISH A TASK FORCE TO IDENTIFY EVIDENCE-

                    BASED AND EVIDENCE-INFORMED SOLUTIONS TO REDUCE -- REDUCE CHILDREN'S

                    EXPOSURE TO ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANKS, MS. SOLAGES.  IS THERE ANY

                    REASON WHY THERE AREN'T ANY MINORITY APPOINTMENTS ON THIS TASK FORCE?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  WELL, I THANK MY COLLEAGUE FOR

                    BRINGING UP THIS VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC.  AND OF COURSE WE'RE WILLING TO

                                         11



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSIONS THAT WILL ALLOW PEOPLE, INDIVIDUALS, MEMBERS

                    TO HAVE THEIR SAY.  BUT AS THE BILL IS WRITTEN IT ALLOWS FOR SPECIFIC

                    DEPARTMENTS TO APPOINT MEMBERS OF THE TASK FORCE.  AND SO WE WANT TO

                    MAKE SURE GREAT EXPERIENCED INDIVIDUALS ARE SITTING ON THIS TASK FORCE

                    THAT REALLY CAN HIGHLIGHT ACES, WHICH ARE ADVERSE CHILDHOOD

                    EXPERIENCES, STRESSFUL EXPERIENCES, TRAUMAS.  WE WANT INDIVIDUALS WHO

                    ARE TRAUMA-INFORMED TO BE SITTING ON THIS TASK FORCE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  CERTAINLY, AND I -- I AGREE WITH

                    YOUR OBJECTIVE TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE WELL-INFORMED TO SERVE ON THIS

                    TASK FORCE.  IT'S AN OBJECTIVE WE ALL SHARE.  BUT WHY ARE THERE ONLY

                    APPOINTMENTS FROM THE MAJORITY AND NO APPOINTMENT FROM THE

                    MINORITY?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  YOU KNOW, AS I SAID BEFORE, MY --

                    MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS MAKING SURE THAT WE ASCERTAIN OR ARE ABLE TO GET

                    INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE TRAUMA-INFORMED WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW,

                    EXPERIENCE.  AND SO DEFINITELY THEY COULD HAVE -- WE HAVE FURTHER

                    DIALOGUE AND CONVERSATION BECAUSE RIGHT HERE THE -- THE APPOINTMENTS

                    DON'T END WITH US PASSING THIS BILL.  IT'S AN ONGOING CONVERSATION.  SO

                    DEFINITELY I'M INTERESTED IN HAVING FURTHER CONVERSATIONS WITH THE

                    MINORITY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I SEE.  SO EVEN THOUGH THIS

                    LEGISLATION DOESN'T PROVIDE FOR AN APPOINTMENT OF AN EXPERT FROM THE

                    MINORITY, YOU ANTICIPATE THAT THE MINORITY WILL HAVE INPUT ON THE

                    APPOINTMENT THAT'S BEING MADE BY THE MAJORITY?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  YEAH.  I'M OPEN TO A DIALOGUE ABOUT

                                         12



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THE TEN MEMBERS FROM SPECIFIC DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES THAT CAN

                    ASCERTAIN AND EVALUATE ACES AND OTHER, YOU KNOW, TRAUMA-INFORMED

                    POLICIES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I SEE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THE PURPOSE OF THIS TASK FORCE,

                    WHICH IS TO EVALUATE ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES AND MAKE

                    RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WILL BE HELPFUL IS CERTAINLY A VALUABLE AND

                    WORTHWHILE OBJECTIVE, SOMETHING I KNOW THAT ALL MY COLLEAGUES SHARE.

                    I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE, THOUGH, THAT THE MINORITY BOTH

                    HERE AND IN THE SENATE REPRESENT SEVERAL MILLION PEOPLE.  AND THIS IS AN

                    ISSUE THAT AFFECTS NOT JUST MAJORITY MEMBERS OR NOT JUST MAJORITY

                    DISTRICTS.  SADLY, IT'S AN ISSUE THAT AFFECTS EVERY DISTRICT ALL ACROSS THE

                    STATE.  AND I THINK IT'S ALWAYS VALUABLE WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT CREATING

                    TASK FORCES THAT WE SEE EXPERTS THAT COME FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

                    AND SO WHILE I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE MAJORITY APPOINTMENT WILL BE AN

                    EXPERT, A LOT OF TIMES THE MINORITY ALSO HAS EXPERTS THAT COME FROM A

                    SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE THAT MIGHT REFLECT, FOR EXAMPLE, A MORE

                    UPSTATE PERSPECTIVE OR A MORE RURAL PERSPECTIVE.  AND WE ALL KNOW THAT

                    ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES CAN VARY, WHETHER YOU'RE IN AN URBAN

                    SETTING OR IN A RURAL SETTING.  AND SO I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE MY

                    COLLEAGUE'S FOCUS ON ESTABLISHING A TASK FORCE FOCUSING ON ADVERSE

                    CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES.  I HOPE THAT WE CAN REEXAMINE THIS, INCREASE

                    THE NUMBER OF MEMBERSHIP, MAKE SURE THAT NOT JUST THE URBAN AREAS BUT

                                         13



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THE SUBURBAN AREAS AND THE RURAL AREAS ARE REPRESENTED, AND THAT'S

                    WHERE THE MINORITY CAN BE PARTICULARLY HELPFUL.

                                 SO WITH THAT I -- I WILL BE VOTING FOR IT AND RECOMMEND

                    IT TO MY COLLEAGUES.  BUT I ALSO WOULD COMMEND TO MY COLLEAGUE THAT

                    WE LOOK AT EXPANDING THE MEMBERSHIP AND INCLUDE A BROADER AND MORE

                    DIVERSE REPRESENTATION.  THANK YOU, SIR, AND THANK YOU TO MY

                    COLLEAGUE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. FITZPATRICK.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  HI.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THANK YOU.  MICHAELLE, CAN

                    YOU DEFINE FOR ME WHAT AN ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCE IS?  WHAT --

                    WHAT ARE THESE?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  YEAH, DEFINITELY.  YOU KNOW, ACES

                    ARE DEFINED AS STRESSFUL AND TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCES THAT HAVE OCCURRED

                    DURING CHILDHOOD WHICH STRONGLY ARE RELATED TO THE DEVELOP -- EFFECT

                    AND ARE RELATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT AND PREVALENCE OF A WIDE RANGE OF

                    PROBLEMS THROUGHOUT A PERSON'S LIFETIME.  SO, ABOUT 1/10TH OF EVERY

                    MUNICIPALITY, STATE, FEDERAL DOLLAR IS SPENT ON HEALTH-RELATED ISSUES,

                    TRAUMAS THAT AFFECT CHILDREN AT A YOUNG AGE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  OKAY.  VERY GOOD.  I -- I KNOW

                                         14



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    YOU MENTIONED TO THE -- TO THE FORMER QUESTIONER THAT YOU ARE OPEN TO

                    DIALOGUE.  WOULD -- WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO MAKE A COMMITMENT TO

                    ADD A MINORITY MEMBER OR MINORITY MEMBERS TO THIS PANEL?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  YOU KNOW, MY FIRST --

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  WOULD YOU GO ON THE RECORD TO

                    DO SO?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  OH, MY FIRST THOUGHT IS MAKING SURE

                    THAT WE GET, YOU KNOW, HEALTH PROFESSIONALS, MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS,

                    PEOPLE WITHIN STATE AGENCIES WHO ARE -- HAVE EXPERIENCE AND -- AND IN

                    MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE INTELLIGENT ABOUT TRAUMA-INFORMED POLICY.  SO,

                    YOU KNOW, WE'RE DEFINITELY HAVING CONVERSATIONS.  WE'RE DEFINITELY,

                    YOU KNOW, TALKING.  BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO BE FOCUSED ON

                    MAKING SURE THAT WE TACKLE ACES AND ARE HAVING TRAUMA-INFORMED

                    POLICY BECAUSE EVERY DAY AS A STATE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PAYING ON THE

                    BACK END INSTEAD OF JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW WE CAN BE PREVENTATIVE.  SO

                    I'M DEFINITELY OPEN TO CONVERSATION AND, YOU KNOW, LOOK FORWARD TO --

                    TO HEARING MORE, YOU KNOW, OFF THE FLOOR.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  BUT -- BUT YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO

                    MAKE A COMMITMENT.

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  SO, DEFINITELY I'M -- I'M WILLING TO

                    HAVE A CONVERSATION.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO MAKE A

                    COMMITMENT.

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I AM THE

                    ASSEMBLY SPONSOR SO --

                                         15



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  OKAY.  I'LL TAKE THAT AS YOU'RE

                    NOT WILLING TO MAKE A COMMITMENT.  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  I THANK MY COLLEAGUE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR ONE QUESTION?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SOLAGES YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THANK YOU.  FOLLOWING UP ON MY

                    COLLEAGUE'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE MINORITY NOT BEING RECOGNIZED HERE

                    AND BEING A PART OF THIS -- THIS COMMITTEE, THIS TASK FORCE, I BROUGHT THIS

                    UP IN COMMITTEE.  IT WAS AN OBJECTION THAT I HAD IN COMMITTEE, AND I

                    WAS TOLD THAT IT WOULD BE LOOKED INTO BEFORE THE BILL HIT THE FLOOR.  I

                    DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS LOOKED INTO OR NOT, BUT THE BILL'S ON THE FLOOR AND

                    WE DON'T HAVE THAT -- THAT COMMITMENT.  CAN YOU -- CAN YOU TELL ME

                    WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT MY QUESTION IN COMMITTEE AND MAYBE WHY IT

                    WASN'T ADDRESSED?

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  YOU KNOW, IN PREVIOUS YEARS THE

                    LEGISLATURE HAD VARIOUS PROPOSALS RELATED TO ACES, INCLUDING

                    EXPANDING CHILD CARE TRAINING REQUIREMENTS TO INCLUDE ACES, TO

                                         16



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    PROVIDE INFORMATION ON VARIOUS ENTITIES RELATED TO ACES, AND TO

                    PROVIDE GUIDANCE AND -- AND REPORT ON WHAT WE CAN DO TO TACKLE IT.  SO,

                    AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE FOCUSED THAT THE

                    PEOPLE WITHIN THE STATE AGENCIES AND THE PEOPLE SITTING ON THIS TASK

                    FORCE ARE FOCUSED ON ACES.  AND, YOU KNOW, TO ME ACES IS A -- IS A

                    BIPARTISAN ISSUE.  IT'S AN ISSUE THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT SOMEONE

                    COMING IN THERE THINKING FROM A POLITICAL LENS, BUT MORE THINKING ABOUT

                    HOLISTICALLY, WHAT CAN WE DO TO IMPROVE OUTCOMES FOR YOUNG CHILDREN

                    IN NEW YORK STATE.  AND SO I'M DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, OPEN TO

                    DIALOGUE, OPEN TO CONVERSATIONS.  BUT WE NEED TO REALLY BE FOCUSED ON

                    -- ON MAKING SURE THAT ACES ARE TAKEN CARE OF.  SO IF WE HAVE A

                    COMMITMENT TO REALLY TACKLE AND MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE

                    IMPROVING OUTCOMES, I'M ALL FOR IT.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  I CAN APPRECIATE, YOU KNOW, YOU

                    BEING OPEN AND WILLING TO -- TO COMMUNICATE.  BUT WEEKS AGO WE

                    VOTED ON THIS IN COMMITTEE AND APPARENTLY THERE'S NO COMMUNICATION

                    FROM THEN UNTIL NOW.  I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE THERE WILL BE

                    COMMUNICATION BETWEEN NOW AND LATER.  YOU KNOW, COMMITTEES AND

                    TASK FORCES ARE CONSTANTLY BEING FORMED IN THIS -- IN THIS CHAMBER, AND

                    TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN THE MINORITY IS NOT ON THESE COMMITTEES.

                    THERE'S NO APPOINTMENTS FROM THE MINORITY SIDE.  I VOTED FOR THIS IN

                    COMMITTEE, AND SEEING THERE'S NO REPRESENTATION FROM THE MINORITY

                                         17



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    SIDE I WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 4908.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. LAWLER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  IT LOOKS

                    LIKE WE'RE OFF TO A RAUCOUS START TODAY.  WE COULD AVOID THESE TYPES OF

                    QUESTIONS ON THE DAILY IF THE MAJORITY WOULD JUST AGREE THAT ANY TIME

                    THERE'S THESE TYPE OF TASK FORCES OR COMMITTEES THAT THEY ALLOW

                    MINORITY REPRESENTATION TO BE PART OF IT.  WE REPRESENT MILLIONS OF

                    PEOPLE ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK OF ALL BACKGROUNDS, AND THIS IS

                    WHY PEOPLE HAVE SUCH LITTLE FAITH IN GOVERNMENT.  WE TALK OFTEN ABOUT

                    THE COMMITTEE PROCESS, AND GO THROUGH THE COMMITTEE PROCESS.  THERE

                    IS NO COMMITTEE PROCESS, AS EVIDENCED BY MY COLLEAGUE'S COMMENTS,

                    THAT HE ASKED FOR THIS TO BE AMENDED BETWEEN COMMITTEE AND THE TIME

                    IT CAME TO THE FLOOR SO THAT THE MINORITY WAS INCLUDED IN IT.  IT

                    OBVIOUSLY WASN'T.  WE'RE GOING TO VOTE AT SOME POINT - MAYBE TODAY,

                    MAYBE TOMORROW - ON A BUDGET EXTENDER BECAUSE ONE-PARTY RULE CAN'T

                    SEEM TO GET TOGETHER AND PRODUCE A REAL BUDGET.  MAYBE, JUST MAYBE,

                                         18



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WE CAN START TO GET TO A POINT WHERE EVEN THE LITTLEST THINGS SUCH AS TASK

                    FORCE, WE CAN FIND SOME WAY TO BE -- TO WORK TOGETHER IN A BIPARTISAN

                    MANNER AND ENSURE THAT THERE ARE APPOINTMENTS FROM THE MINORITY TO

                    THESE TASK FORCES.  IT WOULD PROBABLY MAKE THESE BILLS MEAN SOMETHING

                    MORE TO THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HELP AND SERVE, MANY OF

                    WHOM LIVE IN OUR DISTRICTS AS THEY DO IN YOURS.

                                 SO WITH THAT AND BECAUSE BASED ON THE LINE OF

                    QUESTIONING AND THE NON-ANSWERS, I'M GOING TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAWLER IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MY

                    COLLEAGUE MR. DIPIETRO IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 30, CALENDAR NO. 359.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01861-C, CALENDAR

                    NO. 359, DINOWITZ, L. ROSENTHAL, GALEF, ABINANTI, FAHY, COLTON,

                    WEPRIN, LAVINE, REYES, CRUZ, LUNSFORD, DICKENS, JACOBSON.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING AN EMPLOYER FROM

                    REQUESTING OR REQUIRING THAT AN EMPLOYEE OR APPLICANT DISCLOSE ANY USER

                    NAME, PASSWORD OR OTHER MEANS FOR ACCESSING A PERSONAL ACCOUNT

                    THROUGH SPECIFIED ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS DEVICES.

                                         19



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ, AN

                    EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED, SIR.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THIS BILL WOULD PROHIBIT AN

                    EMPLOYER FROM REQUESTING OR REQUIRING THAT AN EMPLOYEE OR APPLICANT

                    DISCLOSE ANY USER NAME, PASSWORD OR OTHER MEANS FOR ASSESS --

                    ACCESSING PERSONAL ACCOUNTS THROUGH SPECIFIED ELECTRONIC

                    COMMUNICATION DEVICES SUCH AS COMPUTERS, TELEPHONES, PERSONAL

                    DIGITAL ASSISTANTS AND OTHER SIMILAR DEVICES.  AND THE BILL WOULD ALSO

                    PROHIBIT THE EMPLOYER FROM DISCHARGING, DISCIPLINING, PENALIZING,

                    THREATENING OR REFUSING TO HIRE AN EMPLOYEE FOR REFUSAL TO DISCLOSE

                    INFORMATION FOR ACCESSING A PERSONAL ACCOUNT.  AND THIS WOULD PROVIDE

                    PRIVACY PROTECTIONS TO EMPLOYEES AND JOB APPLICANTS REGARDING THEIR

                    PERSONAL ELECTRONIC ACCOUNTS SUCH AS FACEBOOK OR TWITTER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ.  SO I KNOW WE

                    HAVE DISCUSSED THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION IN THE PAST, SO I WANT TO JUST

                    START WITH -- BECAUSE MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOR

                    YEARS MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH PRIOR VERSIONS OF THIS BILL.  YOU KNOW,

                                         20



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    YEARS AGO -- I -- I READ BACK THROUGH SOME OF THE TRANSCRIPTS -- WE HAD A

                    DISCUSSION ABOUT EXEMPTIONS, AND THIS VERSION OF THE BILL DOES HAVE AN

                    EXEMPTION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND I BELIEVE FIREFIGHTER JOB

                    APPLICANTS; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY, THANK YOU.  SO IF YOU CAN JUST -- JUST

                    WALK WITH ME THROUGH I GUESS THE PROCESS HERE.  THIS IS FOR NOT

                    NECESSARILY -- OR NOT AN EXISTING EMPLOYEE, BUT FOR AN APPLICANT FOR A

                    JOB AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT PERSPECTIVE EMPLOYER CAN REQUEST ACCESS TO

                    THESE ACCOUNTS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  IT WOULD INCLUDE JOB APPLICANTS AS

                    WELL AS EMPLOYEES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO LET ME TAKE THE CURRENT EMPLOYEE

                    FIRST AND THEN GO BACK TO THE APPLICANT.  SO, A CURRENT EMPLOYEE WHO

                    MAY HAVE ACCESS, SAY, TO, YOU KNOW, INTERNAL TYPE OF MECHANISMS FOR

                    COMMUNICATIONS, BE THEY SOFTWARE OR HARDWARE.  WHAT IS THIS

                    PREVENTING THEIR EMPLOYER FROM DOING?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  IF THE EQUIPMENT IS -- BELONGS TO

                    THE EMPLOYER, IT DOESN'T REALLY PREVENT THEM FROM DOING ANYTHING, BUT

                    THEY WOULD HAVE TO DISCLOSE VARIOUS LIMITATIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE.  BUT

                    THE EMPLOYER CAN'T REQUIRE THE EMPLOYEE TO DISCLOSE THEIR OWN PERSONAL

                    ACCOUNTS.  SO IF AN EMPLOYEE HAD A -- LIKE, WE HAVE PASSWORDS FOR OUR

                    ASSEMBLY ACCOUNTS.  THAT'S NOT MY PASSWORD, THAT BELONGS TO THE

                    ASSEMBLY.  THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN MY OWN PASSWORD FOR MY OWN E-MAIL.

                                 MR. RA:  SURE.  SO WOULD THAT INCLUDE, THEN, THAT

                                         21



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    TYPE OF LIKE AN INTERNAL E-MAIL OR EVEN -- WHAT ABOUT -- I KNOW -- YOU

                    KNOW, WE GO INTO ONE OF OUR COMPUTERS IN OUR DISTRICT OFFICE OR -- OR IN

                    OUR OFFICES HERE IN ALBANY AND THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, A LOG-IN THAT THE

                    STATE HAS PROVIDED US.  THAT WOULD NOT BE A PERSONAL LOG IN, THAT WOULD

                    BE SOMETHING THAT AN EMPLOYER COULD UTILIZE?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  THAT -- THAT'S NOT A PERSONAL

                    ACCOUNT.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.  SO, GOING BACK TO THE JOB

                    APPLICANT.  SO, AS WE'VE DISCUSSED IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, I -- I THINK

                    ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS PEOPLE DO -- I CERTAINLY HAVE DONE IT WITH

                    PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYERS [SIC] -- IS -- IS, YOU KNOW, SEE IF I FIND THEM ON

                    SOCIAL MEDIA BECAUSE YOU WANT TO KNOW -- YOU MIGHT GET A WINDOW

                    INTO WHO YOU'RE HIRING.  IF THERE'S ANYTHING CONTROVERSIAL -- AND WE'VE

                    SEEN THIS -- WHETHER IT'S IN, YOU KNOW, HIGHER EDUCATION OR -- OR

                    EMPLOYMENT SITUATIONS WHERE SOMETHING COMES TO LIGHT AFTER THE FACT

                    AND AN UNFORTUNATE, YOU KNOW, RESCINDING OF AN OFFER HAS -- HAS TO BE

                    MADE.  SO I THINK WE -- I DON'T KNOW, I CAN CERTAINLY SEE BOTH SIDES OF

                    THIS IN TERMS OF NOT WANTING A PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYER TO BE ABLE TO SAY,

                    HEY, I WANT YOUR LOG IN FOR YOUR FACEBOOK ACCOUNT OR YOUR INSTAGRAM

                    ACCOUNT OR YOUR TWITTER ACCOUNT.  BUT I CAN ALSO SEE WHY A PROSPECTIVE

                    EMPLOYER WANTS TO -- OR AN EMPLOYER WANTS TO SEE WHAT'S OUT THERE THAT

                    MAY HAVE BEEN SAID BY -- BY AN EMPLOYEE.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, PEOPLE WANT A LOT OF THINGS

                    BUT THEY CAN'T ALWAYS HAVE WHAT THEY WANT OR GET WHAT THEY WANT.

                                 MR. RA:  SO, BUT MY -- MY QUESTION WITH THAT REGARD,

                                         22



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THEN, IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS, WE PUT STUFF OUT ON

                    THE INTERNET, BUT SOMETIMES WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY, HEY, I WANT MY

                    INFORMATION TO BE PRIVATE.  SO ONLY, SAY, MY FRIENDS CAN -- CAN ACCESS

                    IT.  PEOPLE WHO I HAVE CHOSEN TO ALLOW ACCESS TO IT.  SO WOULD ANYTHING

                    IN THIS PREVENT, YOU KNOW, AN HR PERSON OR -- OR SOMEBODY ELSE, ANY

                    PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYER FROM SAYING -- FROM REACHING OUT, MAKING A

                    FRIEND REQUEST OR A FOLLOWER ON TWITTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT SO THAT

                    THEY CAN SEE WHAT'S IN THIS PERSON'S ACCOUNT?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, IF SOMEBODY MAKES A FRIEND

                    REQUEST, THEN THE PERSON WHOSE ACCOUNT IT IS CAN CHOOSE WHETHER OR NOT

                    TO ACCEPT THAT REQUEST.  SOME PEOPLE ACCEPT ANY REQUESTS AND SOME

                    PEOPLE ARE WISE ENOUGH TO BE SELECTIVE ABOUT WHOSE REQUEST THEY

                    ACCEPT.  BUT WE'RE TALKING HERE ABOUT AN EMPLOYER OR A POTENTIAL

                    EMPLOYER FROM REQUIRING THAT THE PERSON GIVE UP THEIR -- THEIR

                    PASSWORDS, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS WOULD PREVENT.

                                 MR. RA:  SO SUPPOSE -- SUPPOSE SOMEBODY

                    INTERVIEWS SOMEBODY AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, MARY SMITH FROM OUR HR

                    DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO SEND YOU A FRIEND REQUEST.  WE'D LIKE YOU TO

                    ACCEPT IT BECAUSE SHE NEEDS TO JUST VERIFY THAT THERE'S NOTHING, YOU

                    KNOW, CONTROVERSIAL ON YOUR FACEBOOK ACCOUNT.  WOULD THAT VIOLATE

                    THIS STATUTE IF IT WERE TO BECOME LAW?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, I THINK I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT

                    THE BILL, BUT I THINK IT -- THE BILL BANS THE EMPLOYER FROM REQUIRING THE

                    DISCLOSURE OF THE PASSWORD.  SO, I MEAN, PERSONALLY I WOULDN'T -- I

                    WOULDN'T ACCEPT A FRIEND REQUEST UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, BUT THAT'S NOT

                                         23



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WHAT THE BILL ADDRESSES EXACTLY.  IT ADDRESSES THE -- THE FORCED

                    DISCLOSURE OF PASSWORDS.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.  NOW, SO IT'S JUST THE PASSWORD.

                    SO IF SUPPOSE SOMEBODY DOES WILLINGLY ACCEPT, YOU KNOW, THAT FRIEND

                    REQUEST OR WHATEVER, AND YOU SEE SOMETHING -- THE EMPLOYER SEES

                    SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH.  IS THERE ANY LANGUAGE IN

                    HERE THAT WOULD PREVENT THE EMPLOYER FROM DECIDING, I DON'T WANT TO

                    HIRE THAT PERSON?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NO.  I MEAN, YOU CAN LOOK UP

                    SOMEBODY ON FACEBOOK ANY TIME YOU WANT.  SOME PEOPLE'S ACCOUNTS

                    ARE MORE PUBLIC THAN OTHERS.  I -- SOME ACCOUNTS THEY -- THEY CAN -- I

                    DON'T KNOW HOW IT WORKS, IF YOU WANT TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST.  BUT

                    SOME ACCOUNTS IF YOU PUT A PERSON'S NAME IN IT'LL SAY, I DON'T KNOW,

                    PRIVATE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND OTHERS IS VERY PUBLIC.  BUT THAT'S

                    THEIR CHOICE.  BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT -- HERE ABOUT FORCING SOMEBODY

                    TO PROVIDE THE PASSWORD TO THE ACCOUNT, WHICH I GUESS WOULD GIVE OUT

                    MORE INFORMATION THAN SIMPLY LOOKING SOMEBODY UP.

                                 MR. RA:  AND THERE'S -- THERE'S ONE OTHER PIECE OF THIS

                    THAT I KNOW WE HAVE DISCUSSED IN THE PAST, AND I'M JUST GOING TO ASK

                    AGAIN IF YOU FOUND ANY INSTANCES OF THIS.  THERE'S AN AFFIRMATIVE

                    DEFENSE IF A -- YOU KNOW, IF THE PERSON'S ACTING PURSUANT TO -- TO SOME

                    STATUTE.  DO YOU KNOW OF ANY SUCH STATUTES?  I MEAN, I -- I ASSUME THAT

                    AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE IS IN THERE FOR A REASON, BUT DO YOU KNOW OF ANY

                    SUCH STATUTES THAT WOULD REQUIRE SOMEBODY TO DISCLOSE THIS TYPE OF

                    INFORMATION?

                                         24



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NO.  I THINK IT ALSO TALKS ABOUT A

                    COURT ORDER.  BUT NO, THE ANSWER IS I DON'T.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  I APPRECIATE MR. DINOWITZ ANSWERING THE

                    QUESTIONS.  YOU KNOW, THIS IS A BILL THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A NUMBER OF

                    YEARS.  AS I MENTIONED, THERE WERE PRIOR VERSIONS THAT DIDN'T PROVIDE

                    ANY EXEMPTIONS.  MANY ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE DID RAISE THE CONCERN

                    THAT PERHAPS SOME TYPE OF EXEMPTION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OR SIMILAR

                    OTHER TYPES OF OFFICIALS MIGHT BE NECESSARY.  THERE HAD BEEN ACTUALLY A

                    PIECE OF LOCAL LEGISLATION AT THE CITY COUNCIL LEVEL WITH REGARD TO THIS,

                    AND I KNOW I HAD HAD SOME DISCUSSION WITH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT

                    UNIONS DOWN THERE ABOUT THEIR THOUGHTS WITH REGARD TO THIS.  BASICALLY,

                    THE IDEA BEING YOU WANT TO KNOW OR -- OR -- OR TAKE ADVANTAGE OF

                    ANYTHING THAT'S OUT THERE TO SEE WHAT THE BACKGROUND OF AN INDIVIDUAL

                    THAT YOU MAY BE HIRING AND SEE IF THEY MAY BE ENGAGING IN, YOU KNOW,

                    NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY, WHETHER THEY'VE SAID THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO, YOU

                    KNOW, CAST A BAD LIGHT ON THE DEPARTMENT AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.  SO

                    I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE THAT THOSE EXEMPTIONS HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE

                    BILL.  I DO STILL HAVE CONCERNS WITH THIS LANGUAGE BECAUSE THERE ARE

                    CERTAINLY REASONS WHY YOU WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS INFORMATION.

                    NOW, I DON'T THINK NECESSARILY SOMEBODY SHOULD HAVE TO GIVE OVER

                    THEIR PASSWORD AND LOG IN, BUT I'M CONCERNED THAT THE LANGUAGE MAY

                    NOT BE TIGHT ENOUGH TO PREVENT A SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY JUST WANTS

                                         25



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NO -- THAT THERE'S

                    NOTHING THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE A SITUATION WHERE THAT COMPANY IS GOING

                    TO, YOU KNOW, BE CAST IN A BAD LIGHT.  WHY DID YOU HIRE THIS PERSON?

                    THIS PERSON WORKS FOR YOU.  AND I THINK WE CAN ALL THINK OF INSTANCES

                    IN THE RECENT PAST WHERE A COMPANY FOUND OUT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL'S

                    PAST STATEMENTS THAT -- THAT IS WORKING FOR THEM AND -- AND WERE THE

                    SUBJECT OF A LOT OF PUBLIC SCRUTINY FOR BEING ASSOCIATED WITH -- WITH AN

                    INDIVIDUAL WHO SAID MAYBE SOME NEGATIVE THINGS IN THE PAST OR TOOK

                    SOME ACTIONS IN THE PAST THAT ARE NOT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THAT

                    COMPANY WANTS TO BE PUTTING OUT INTO THE WORLD.

                                 SO I KNOW SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES, BECAUSE OF THOSE

                    CONCERNS, ARE STILL GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  BUT I -- I HOPE

                    WE CAN CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THIS ISSUE BECAUSE IT REALLY IS ABOUT A

                    BALANCING OF PRIVACY VERSUS MAKING SURE THAT OUR EMPLOYERS IN THIS

                    KIND OF DIGITAL WORLD KNOW WHAT -- WHAT PEOPLE ARE PUTTING OUT INTO THE

                    PUBLIC.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. ANGELINO.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I HAVE A

                    COUPLE OF QUESTIONS IF THE SPONSOR WILL YIELD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DINOWITZ, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  MY COLLEAGUE OVER HERE LUCKILY

                                         26



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    ASKED A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD CONCERNS WITH.  FIRST OFF, THE

                    EXEMPTION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FIREFIGHTERS IS PROBABLY NEEDED.

                    THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN A POSITION OF TRUST THAT YOU DO WANT TO

                    KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT.  I'M CONCERNED BECAUSE THIS HAS HAPPENED IN A

                    SITUATION THAT I WAS FAMILIAR WITH.  IF A PERSON HAS A LOCKED ACCOUNT, IT'S

                    PRIVATE AND ONLY HIS FRIENDS CAN SEE IT.  IF ONE OF THOSE FRIENDS DIVULGES

                    INFORMATION TO A PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYER, IS THAT FRUIT FROM A POISONOUS

                    TREE?  CAN THE EMPLOYER STILL ACT ON IT, OR...

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  ARE YOU -- ARE YOU ASKING IF THE

                    EMPLOYER CAN ASK SOMEBODY ELSE?

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  NO, IF SOMEBODY -- IF INFORMATION

                    COMES FROM A LOCKED ACCOUNT.  I -- I READ THIS, I SAW WHERE IT'S

                    PASSWORD PROTECTED AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE PROTECTING.  BUT IT'S -- IF AN

                    EMPLOYER ACTS ON INFORMATION RECEIVED FROM A THIRD-PARTY FROM THAT

                    PERSON'S ACCOUNT, IS THAT A PROBLEM FOR -- IS THIS COVERED IN THIS BILL?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  I -- I THINK THE BILL SIMPLY

                    ADDRESSES THE EMPLOYER REQUIRING THE EMPLOYEE OR POTENTIAL EMPLOYEE

                    OF PROVIDING -- FORCING THE PERSON TO PROVIDE A PASSWORD.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  OKAY.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                    MY QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  MR. DURSO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                         27



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  ONLY IF THEY'RE A COUPLE AND ONLY

                    IF THEY'RE QUICK.

                                 MR. DURSO:  I HAVE THREE AND I PROMISE I'LL MAKE

                    THEM QUICK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, SIR.  SO SINCE I HAVEN'T HAD

                    HAD A CHANCE TO DISCUSS THIS WITH YOU ON THE FLOOR IN PREVIOUS YEARS I

                    FIGURED I'D TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.  WHY IS

                    THE REQUIREMENT IN PLACE FOR FIRE, POLICE, EMS, THOSE TYPE OF WORKERS

                    THAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO ASK FOR THOSE PASSWORDS?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  WELL, FOR TWO REASONS.  I AMENDED

                    THE BILL.  ONE IS THIS WOULD ESSENTIALLY CONFORM IT TO THE LEGISLATION

                    PASSED IN NEW YORK CITY.  AND SECONDLY, BECAUSE OF MY EXTRAORDINARY

                    BIPARTISAN NATURE, I TOOK TO HEART THE SUGGESTIONS THAT SOME PEOPLE ON

                    YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE MADE THE LAST TIME WE DEBATED IT, AND ADDED THAT

                    TO THE BILL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU.  THAT'S A GREAT ANSWER.

                    THANK YOU.  SO THAT WAS A QUICK ANSWER, SO I ONLY HAVE TWO MORE --

                    TWO MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  OKAY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO OBVIOUSLY THIS IS ONLY PASSWORD,

                    CORRECT?  PASSWORD PROTECTION, ANYTHING LIKE THAT.  THEY -- THE

                    EMPLOYER CANNOT ASK YOU FOR A PASSWORD.  DOES THIS THEN HINDER

                    EMPLOYERS FROM COMING UP WITH ANY TYPE OF SOCIAL MEDIA POLICY OR

                    ANYTHING LIKE THAT WITHIN THE WORKPLACE?  THIS DOES NOT HINDER THAT AT

                                         28



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    ALL?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  IT DOES NOT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY, SO IT'S ONLY PASSWORD ONLY.  AND

                    IF THERE'S ANY TYPE OF INTERNAL INVESTIGATION DONE WITHIN THOSE -- FROM

                    THOSE EMPLOYERS WITHIN THOSE JOBS, ARE THEY THEN ALLOWED TO ASK FOR

                    PASSWORDS OR NOT AT ALL?

                                 MR. DINOWITZ:  NO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ.  I

                    APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON A.1861-C.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO

                    WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION.  BUT THOSE WHO

                    SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT HERE ON THE

                    FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY LEADER.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                                         29



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

                    THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  HOWEVER, SIR, THERE MAY BE COLLEAGUES THAT

                    DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY

                    RECORDED.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MY

                    COLLEAGUES MR. BRABENEC AND MR. NORRIS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 32, CALENDAR NO. 385, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02344-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 385, L. ROSENTHAL, STECK, STERN, LAVINE, MAGNARELLI, REYES,

                    GRIFFIN, BRABENEC, JACKSON, ABINANTI, CARROLL, SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO FOOD ALLERGY AWARENESS IN

                    FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENTS AND ONLINE FOOD ORDERING SERVICES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  AN -- AN EXPLANATION

                    HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS BILL WOULD HELP ENSURE THE

                    SAFETY OF PEOPLE WITH FOOD ALLERGIES BY REQUIRING RESTAURANTS TO POST A

                                         30



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    FOOD ALLERGY NOTICE, AND -- YEAH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MS. ROSENTHAL.  SO I JUST

                    HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS.  FIRST OF ALL, THE BILL APPLIES TO FOOD

                    SERVICE ESTABLISHMENTS, BUT THAT IS NOT DEFINED.  WOULD THAT -- IS IT FAIR

                    TO SAY THAT FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENTS WOULD INCLUDE EVERYTHING FROM

                    FINE DINING TO FAST FOOD AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, IT SAYS IN THE BILL FOOD

                    SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT SHALL MEAN A RESTAURANT, CATERING HALL OR GROCERY

                    STORE WHERE FOOD IS PREPARED AND SERVED EITHER ON OR OFF SITE.  THAT'S IN

                    THE BILL LANGUAGE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY, VERY GOOD.  SO THE PROCEDURES

                    THAT ARE GOING TO BE FOLLOWED -- SO THERE -- THERE IS A POSTER

                    REQUIREMENT IN THE BILL, AS YOU NOTED.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT'S A -- IT'S A NOTICE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  IT -- YEAH, A NOTICE REQUIREMENT.  BUT

                    THAT -- IT'S -- IT'S IN THE FORM OF A POSTER, THOUGH, ISN'T IT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NOT NECESSARILY.  I DON'T THINK IT

                    SAYS POSTER.

                                 MS. WALSH:  ALL RIGHT.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT JUST SAYS NOTICE.

                                         31



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MS. WALSH:  WELL, IT HAS TO BE DONE IN SIX

                    LANGUAGES, SO WOULDN'T IT BE A POSTER?  I MEAN, YOU'RE GOING TO SAY IT IN

                    SIX LANGUAGES TO EVERY CUSTOMER?  I DON'T -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT'S -- IT'S TO BE POSTED, IT'S NOT TO

                    BE GIVEN TO EVERY CUSTOMER.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO IT'S NOTICE THAT NEEDS TO BE POSTED

                    BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A POSTER?  I DON'T -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND.  I'M

                    SORRY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OKAY.  THERE -- THERE ARE A

                    COUPLE OF ELEMENTS TO THIS BILL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEAH.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  ONE OF THEM IS THAT THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WOULD CREATE A FOOD ALLERGY AWARENESS NOTICE ON

                    THE WEBSITE.  ANOTHER PORTION IS THAT ON THE MENU OR ATTACHED TO THE

                    MENU SHOULD BE THE LANGUAGE, IF YOU HAVE A FOOD ALLERGY PLEASE NOTIFY

                    US.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  AND RESTAURANTS SHOULD POST

                    NOTICE IN THE STAFF AREA IN LANGUAGE SPOKEN BY EMPLOYEES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THAT'S THE ONE THAT I WAS REFERRING TO.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  RIGHT.  SO IT CAN BE A NOTICE.  IT

                    CAN JUST BE ON A PIECE OF PAPER.  IT'S DOESN'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE A

                    POSTER.  IT'S NOT FOR THE PUBLIC THAT'S IN THE RESTAURANT, IT'S FOR THE STAFF.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO THERE'S THAT PART FOR THE STAFF AND

                    THEN THERE'S THE PART ON THE MENU, AND THEN THERE'S THE PART THAT'S GOING

                                         32



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    TO BE ON THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH'S WEBSITE --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH'S WEBSITE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEAH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEAH.  AND ALSO THERE'S ANOTHER PART OF

                    THE BILL, ISN'T THERE, THAT SAYS THAT IF FOOD CAN BE ORDERED ON LINE, IF THEY

                    -- IF THE RESTAURANT, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS AN INTERNET PRESENCE THERE HAS TO

                    BE SOME TYPE OF A PROCEDURE WHERE THE CUSTOMER CAN ALERT THE FOOD

                    ESTABLISHMENT OF AN ALLERGY; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  SO WHEN YOU ORDER ONLINE YOU

                    COULD SAY, YEAH, I'M ALLERGIC TO SPINACH, LET'S SAY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  GREAT.  SO, NOW THOSE -- THOSE

                    PROCEDURES, THOUGH, DON'T CURRENTLY EXIST IN STATUTE OR REGULATION,

                    CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  RIGHT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE

                    COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH IS GOING TO BE TASKED THROUGH THIS LEGISLATION

                    TO -- TO COME UP WITH; IS THAT RIGHT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, JUST THE PROCEDURES TO

                    FOLLOW IF A CUSTOMER INFORMS SOMEONE ON THE STAFF IF THEY HAVE AN

                    ALLERGY, WHAT TO DO AND PROCEDURES TO PREVENT CROSS-CONTACT AND WHAT

                    TO DO IF THERE'S A REACTION TO ANY OF THE FOOD.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  NOW IS THIS -- IS THIS RULE OR

                                         33



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THIS SET-UP IN THE LEGISLATION, IS THIS ALREADY IN EFFECT IN NEW YORK

                    CITY?  DO YOU KNOW?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T BELIEVE ALL PARTS OF IT ARE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SOME OF IT, BUT MAYBE NOT ALL

                    OF IT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT -- IT MIGHT BE.  I HAVE TO GO

                    CHECK MY NOTES, BUT YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  VERY GOOD.

                    NOW WHAT ABOUT IF AN INDIVIDUAL -- A CUSTOMER IS ORDERING THROUGH,

                    LIKE, DOORDASH OR GRUBHUB OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?  HOW -- HOW'S THAT

                    GOING TO BE SET UP SO THAT IF YOU'RE PLACING YOUR ORDER THROUGH ONE OF

                    THOSE APPS THAT THE -- THAT THE PERSON OR PEOPLE PREPARING THE FOOD

                    ACTUALLY BECOME ALERTED TO THE ALLERGY THAT THE CONSUMER IS SAYING THAT

                    THEY HAVE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, JUST LIKE YOU SAY, I WANT

                    EXTRA SAUCE.  HOWEVER THAT GETS TO THE CHEF, THE SAME WAY IT WOULD BE,

                    I'M ALLERGIC TO SPINACH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  AND --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T WANT TO SAY A BAD THING

                    ABOUT SPINACH.  I LOVE SPINACH.  I PICKED A NEUTRAL VEGETABLE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  NOW THE -- I AGREE WITH YOU, I LOVE

                    SPINACH, TOO.  SO ON -- ON PAGE 2 AROUND LINE 17 IT TALKS ABOUT THAT THE

                    FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT ON THE -- WAIT A MINUTE, I MIGHT BE IN THE

                    WRONG SECTION HERE.  OH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STAFF.  THE STAFF THAT IS

                    GOING TO BE TAKING YOUR ORDER OR -- THE STAFF THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE

                                         34



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    ALERTING THAT YOU'VE GOT THIS ALLERGY WITHIN A FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT

                    COULD BE A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE.  DOES THE BILL SPECIFY WHO STAFF IS

                    MEANT TO BE?  IS IT EVERYBODY IN THE PLACE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  UM, LET ME SEE.  WHAT LINE ARE

                    YOU ON?

                                 MS. WALSH:  HOLD ON A SECOND.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I MEAN, IT WOULD CERTAINLY --

                                 MS. WALSH:  PAGE 1, LINE 17.  I SAID PAGE 2

                    MISTAKENLY, I'M SORRY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEAH.  OKAY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO IN OTHER WORDS, WE HAVE TO COME

                    UP WITH PROCEDURES TO BE FOLLOWED IF A CUSTOMER INFORMS STAFF OF SUCH

                    FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT THAT THE CUSTOMER HAS A FOOD ALLERGY, AND

                    I'M -- I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT DOES STAFF MEAN?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  UM, THAT WOULD BE WHOEVER YOU

                    PLACE THE ORDER TO OR SOMETIMES PEOPLE -- THERE'S A MAÎTRE D OR

                    SOMEONE WHO SHOWS YOU WHERE TO SIT.  YOU MIGHT SAY, OH, I HAVE A

                    FOOD ALLERGY, AND THEY WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, TELL YOUR SERVER.  LIKE

                    THAT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IN

                    SOME INSTANCES I KNOW THAT THERE'S A WHOLE CONCEPT IN SOME

                    RESTAURANTS THAT HAVE, LIKE, TEAM SERVICE WHERE YOU COULD HAVE, YOU

                    KNOW, SEVERAL DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ACTUALLY SERVING YOU AT THE

                    TABLE FOR DIFFERENT PARTS OF YOUR MEAL.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  RIGHT.

                                         35



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO IS IT -- IS IT YOUR INTENTION THAT

                    NOTIFICATION TO ONE STAFF MEMBER WOULD COUNT TO NOTIFICATION TO THE --

                    BECAUSE IT'S THE ATTORNEY IN ME THAT -- YOU KNOW, MY EARS GO UP WHEN I

                    HEAR ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT.  I THINK ABOUT LIABILITY FOR THE

                    ESTABLISHMENTS IF THEY FAIL TO PREVENT AGAINST CROSS-CONTAMINATION OR --

                    OR THAT KIND OF THING.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, I GUESS IT'S UP TO THE

                    PERSON WITH THE ALLERGY, BUT I WOULD SAY THE MAIN SERVER.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  BUT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE

                    NERVOUS YOU COULD TELL THE PERSON WHO BRINGS YOU THE BREAD OR -- OR

                    THINGS LIKE THAT.  YEAH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I APPRECIATE

                    THAT.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU.  SO I THINK IT'S A -- IT'S A

                    REAL LAUDABLE GOAL TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE FOOD

                    ALLERGIES CAN EAT OUT SAFELY.  I HAVE TWO KIDS WHO HAVE TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE

                    NUT ALLERGIES AND CONTINUE TO HAVE THEM INTO THEIR 20'S.  AND I KNOW

                    THAT IT WAS AN AWAKENING FOR ME TO REALIZE THAT THERE ARE SOME PLACES

                    THAT WE JUST CAN'T GO BECAUSE WE CAN'T FEEL -- I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WITH A

                    NUT ALLERGY YOU CAN'T GO TO A PLACE LIKE FIVE GUYS WHERE THEY'VE GOT

                    BIG GIANT BARRELS FULL OF PEANUTS EVERYWHERE.  THERE'S JUST NOT -- YOU

                    JUST CAN'T SAFELY EAT THERE WITH YOUR -- WITH YOUR KIDS IF THEY'VE GOT A

                                         36



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    NUT ALLERGY LIKE THAT.  BUT I -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER -- I HAVE QUESTIONS

                    ABOUT WHETHER PUTTING UP A NOTICE THAT THE STAFF CAN READ IN SEVERAL

                    DIFFERENT LANGUAGES IS REALLY, LIKE, THE RIGHT WAY TO GO ABOUT THIS.  AND

                    I ALSO THINK THAT TASKING THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO DEVELOP A

                    WHOLE BUNCH OF REGULATIONS THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN YET OR REALLY HAVE

                    VOTED ON CALLS TO MIND ISSUES WHERE WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY DELEGATED

                    RESPONSIBILITY TO OTHER COMMISSIONERS, AND INSTEAD OF US REALLY

                    DECIDING WHAT WE WANT TO SEE AND MAKING IT PART OF THE LAW.  SO I DO

                    HAVE WORRIES ABOUT DELEGATING THOSE TYPES OF THINGS AS WELL.  ALSO, I

                    KNOW THAT THE SPONSOR MENTIONED TO ME THAT SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS

                    NOTICE WAS REALLY A POSTER.  BUT IT IS A POSTING THAT'S GOING UP FOR THE

                    BENEFITS OF EMPLOYEES TO READ AND BE RESPONSIBLE TO KNOW, POSTED IN A

                    NUMBER OF DIFFERENT LANGUAGES.  AND I WOULD JUST SAY FOR THE BENEFIT OF

                    MY COLLEAGUES THAT WE ALREADY HAVE -- I -- IT'S BEEN A SLOW CREEP UP

                    YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR OF THE POSTINGS THAT WE REQUIRE RESTAURANTS TO

                    DO.  WE HAVE THINGS FROM BLOOD DONATION LEAVE, DISCRIMINATION NOTICE,

                    EQUAL PAY LAW, FRINGE BENEFITS NOTICE, NEW YORK CORRECTION LAW, NEW

                    YORK MINIMUM WAGE, NEW YORK NO SMOKING POSTER AND CLEAN

                    INDOOR AIR ACT.  IT GOES ON AND ON AND ON.  I THINK THERE ARE, LIKE, 14.

                    AND THEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS A WHOLE BUNCH, TOO, THAT I WON'T

                    READ OUT LOUD.  SO I THINK THAT YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW, I

                    THINK SOMETHING LIKE A FOOD ALLERGY IS SOMETHING THAT IF YOU'RE THE

                    PARENT OR AN INDIVIDUAL WITH THE ALLERGY, YOU KNOW AND YOU'RE GOING TO

                    MAKE IT VERY CLEAR TO YOUR SERVERS, WHETHER YOU'RE IN A FAST FOOD PLACE

                    OR AT A RESTAURANT, ABOUT THOSE ALLERGIES.  YOU HAVE TO.  AND I THINK

                                         37



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    PREVENTING CROSS-CONTAMINATION IS IMPORTANT.  BUT I ALSO THINK THAT

                    PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE FOOD SERVICE INDUSTRY, THEY ALSO ARE VERY WELL

                    AWARE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH FOOD ALLERGIES AND CERTAINLY TO SERVE THE

                    CUSTOMER DON'T WANT TO SEE ANYTHING GO WRONG EITHER.

                                 THERE HAS BEEN NO PRIOR VOTE ON THIS BILL.  THIS WILL BE

                    OUR FIRST TIME.  AND I WOULD NOTE THAT THERE IS OPPOSITION FROM THE

                    FOOD INDUSTRY ALLIANCE AND MCDONALD'S, AND BASICALLY WHAT THEY'VE

                    SAID IS THAT THEY FEEL THAT THERE ARE ALREADY TOO MANY POSTER

                    REQUIREMENTS AND THAT THE BILL REQUIRES A FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT TO

                    PROVIDE A CUSTOMER WITH PROCEDURES FOR CROSS-CONTAMINATION OR

                    CROSS-CONTACT, BUT THESE PROCEDURES DO NOT CURRENTLY EXIST IN STATUTE OR

                    REGULATION.

                                 SO, ANYWAY THOSE -- I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S GOAL IN

                    TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE BE -- BE SAFER IN RESTAURANT ENVIRONMENTS.  MY

                    QUESTION IS ABOUT WHETHER THIS BILL IS REALLY THE CORRECT WAY TO ADDRESS

                    IT.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MS.

                    WALSH.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 2344-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                                         38



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                    I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S CONCERN ABOUT PEOPLE WITH FOOD ALLERGIES.

                    INDEED, MY WIFE IS A VEGETARIAN AND SHE IS ALLERGIC TO MEAT.  AND

                    SOMETIMES WE'LL GO TO SOME PLACE AND THEY'LL SAY, OH, THERE'S A VEGGIE

                    BURGER AND WE DISCOVER IT'S GRILLED ON THE SAME GRILL AS A -- AS A MEAT

                    PATTY ON EITHER SIDE OF IT, AND THAT WILL MAKE HER SICK.  AND I HAVE

                    FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES THAT ARE ALLERGIC TO ONIONS OR GARLIC OR A

                    COMMON ALLERGY IS PEANUTS.  BUT BELIEVE ME, THOSE FOLKS THAT ARE --

                    WHO HAVE FOOD ALLERGIES, THEY KNOW IT AND THEY'RE QUICK TO POINT IT OUT

                    AND THEY'RE THE RIGHT ONES TO SAY TO THE WAITER WHAT'S GOING ON.  IN MY

                    LAW FIRM I HAVE ABOUT 12 SQUARE FEET OF POSTERS PER EMPLOYEE.  AND

                    EVERY YEAR I GET A LETTER URGING ME TO SPEND A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF

                    MONEY TO UPDATE THEM.  AND OF COURSE THOSE LETTERS COME AND SAY IF I

                    DON'T I WILL BE IN VIOLATION AND THE LABOR DEPARTMENT WOULD FINE ME.

                    SO NOW IN MY DISTRICT WHERE WE PROBABLY SPEAK MAYBE THREE OR FOUR

                    LANGUAGES AT MOST, WE HAVE LITTLE BIT OF FRENCH CANADIAN AND A LOT OF

                    SPANISH, ENGLISH, NOW WE HAVE A POSTER THAT'S IN MULTIPLE LANGUAGES

                    THAT WE PUT ON TOP OF THE POSTERS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE THAT ARE NEXT TO

                    POSTERS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE.  AND IT'S AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN, AN

                    ADDITIONAL EXPENSE AND ADDITIONAL LIABILITY FOR EMPLOYERS WITH VIRTUALLY

                    NO ASCERTAINABLE IMPROVEMENT IN PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY.

                                 AND SO WHILE IT'S ALWAYS FUN TO ADD MORE AND MORE

                                         39



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    REGULATIONS ON BUSINESSES IN NEW YORK STATE, I THINK WE NEED TO BE

                    CAREFUL THAT WE JUST KEEP ADDING MORE AND MORE WITHOUT DOING ANY

                    COST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS.  AND FOR THAT REASON I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST THIS.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  A 2020 STUDY BY FARE, A FOOD ALLERGY RESEARCH AND

                    EDUCATION ORGANIZATION, FOUND THAT RESTAURANTS ARE THE SECOND-MOST

                    COMMON LOCATION FOR FOOD ALLERGY REACTIONS.  RESEARCHERS ESTIMATE THAT

                    32 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE FOOD ALLERGIES, INCLUDING 5.6 MILLION

                    CHILDREN UNDER AGE 18.  THE CDC REPORTS THE PREVALENCE OF FOOD

                    ALLERGY IN CHILDREN INCREASED BY 50 PERCENT BETWEEN 1997 AND 2011.

                    EVERY THREE MINUTES A FOOD ALLERGY REACTION SENDS SOMEONE TO THE

                    EMERGENCY ROOM, AND EACH YEAR IN THE U.S. 200,000 PEOPLE REQUIRE

                    EMERGENCY MEDICAL CARE FOR ALLERGIC REACTIONS TO FOOD.  THAT IS WHY IT'S

                    IMPERATIVE THAT PEOPLE COMMUNICATE PROPERLY SO THAT WHAT THEY ARE

                    SERVED DOES NOT -- WAS NOT IN CROSS CONTACT WITH AN ALLERGEN, AND

                    PEOPLE WHO SERVE FOOD UNDERSTAND THE CUSTOMER'S NEED TO AVOID CERTAIN

                    FOODS.  I DEVELOPED THIS LEGISLATION WITH SHAZIA RAFI AND HER DAUGHTER,

                    DR. ZARA ATAL, TWO GREAT FOOD ALLERGY AWARENESS ADVOCATES.  ZARA HAS

                    FOOD ALLERGIES AND HAS EXPERIENCED ALLERGIC REACTIONS DINING AT

                    RESTAURANTS.  SO PROVIDING STAFF WITH CLEAR GUIDANCE AND CHEFS HOW TO

                    HANDLE FOOD ALLERGY IS THE SUREST WAY TO ENSURE THAT NOBODY WILL GO

                                         40



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    INTO ANAPHYLAXIS AND THEY CAN ENJOY THEIR MEAL KNOWING THAT THEIR FOOD

                    IS SAFE FOR THEM TO EAT.  AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AS THE

                    OWNER OF A FOOD TRAILER, WE HAVE VERY LITTLE ROOM TO POST NOTICES.  AND

                    THEY HAVE TO BE POSTED SO THAT THE CUSTOMERS CAN SEE THEM.  SO WE

                    HAVE A SIDE WINDOW ON OUR FOOD TRAILER.  WITH ALL THE NOTICES THAT ARE

                    ON THE SIDE WINDOW OF THE FOOD TRAILER NOW, WE HAVE TO UNDERNEATH FOR

                    THE SIGN.  PRETTY SOON WE'RE GOING TO BE TAKING ORDERS OUT THE BACK DOOR

                    BECAUSE, QUITE FRANKLY, WE'VE GOT SO MANY POSTINGS ON OUR SIDE

                    WINDOW, I WISH I WOULD HAVE BUILT THAT TRAILER WITH A MUCH LARGER

                    WINDOW.

                                 AND FOR THAT -- FOR THAT REASON AND -- AND MANY OTHERS

                    -- I'VE BEEN IN THE FOOD INDUSTRY FOR MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS.  MAYBE

                    THERE ARE SOME -- SOME ROGUE RESTAURANTEURS OUT THERE THAT ARE NOT

                    TAKING CARE OF THEIR CUSTOMERS OR LISTENING TO THEIR NEEDS, BUT AS MY

                    COLLEAGUE STATED EARLIER, HIS WIFE HAS A -- A BEEF ALLERGY.  AND IF

                    SOMEONE HAS A BEEF ALLERGY AND THEY COME TO OUR ESTABLISHMENT WE

                    COOK IT ON A SEPARATE GRILL.  WE TAKE PRECAUTIONS.  IN ALL THE YEARS THAT

                    I'VE BEEN IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS, I'VE NEVER HAD A SITUATION WHERE I

                    WORKED THAT I HAD -- I HAD A PATRON HAVE AN ALLERGIC REACTION TO THE

                    FOOD WHILE IN THE RESTAURANT.  I CAN'T SAY WHEN THEY WENT HOME, MAYBE

                    POSSIBLY, BUT IN THE RESTAURANT.  ANYONE THAT KNOWS THEY HAVE A FOOD

                                         41



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    ALLERGY BRINGS IT TO THE IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THEIR WAITER OR THEIR

                    WAITRESS OR THEIR BUS PERSON OR TALKS DIRECTLY TO THE -- TO THE CHEF.  I

                    CAN'T IMAGINE GOING TO A RESTAURANT AND HAVING AN ALLERGY AND NOT

                    LETTING SOMEBODY KNOW ABOUT IT.  I MYSELF HAVE ALLERGIES TO DIFFERENT

                    THINGS AND I WANT TO KNOW IMMEDIATELY WHAT'S IN THE INGREDIENTS.

                    WHEN WE DO CHICKEN BARBECUES, I HAVE JUGS THAT I KEEP BECAUSE

                    PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT ALLERGIES.  AND I KEEP THAT JUG THERE SO THEY CAN

                    READ THE INGREDIENTS THEMSELVES ON THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S

                    NOTHING IN THERE THAT IS GOING TO AFFECT THEIR HEALTH.  SO IN ALL THE YEARS

                    -- AND IT'S BEEN CLOSE TO 100 THAT I HAVE BEEN IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS,

                    I HAD NO ISSUES WITH THIS WHATSOEVER, AND I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT

                    RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE IN THIS INDUSTRY DO.

                                 AND FOR THAT -- THAT REASON I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GALLAHAN IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MY

                    COLLEAGUES MR. DIPIETRO, MR. MCDONOUGH AND MR. NORRIS IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.  SO

                    NOTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                                         42



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    SPEAKER.  PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MS. PHEFFER AMATO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 37, CALENDAR NO. 464, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00797, CALENDAR NO.

                    464, ZEBROWSKI, SEAWRIGHT, SAYEGH.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC

                    SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION

                    TO DEVELOP A FORMULA FOR THE CALCULATION OF A RESIDENTIAL WATER COST

                    INDEX; REQUIRING EACH WATERWORKS CORPORATION AND MUNICIPAL WATER

                    SYSTEM SERVING 1,000 CUSTOMERS OR MORE TO CALCULATE AND SUBMIT TO THE

                    PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION ITS RESIDENTIAL WATER COST INDEX; AND

                    REQUIRING THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO PUBLISH A REPORT ON THE

                    RESIDENTIAL WATER COST INDEX OF EACH APPLICABLE WATERWORKS CORPORATION

                    AND MUNICIPAL WATER SYSTEM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. ZEBROWSKI.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND

                    GOOD AFTERNOON, MY COLLEAGUES.  THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THE PUBLIC

                    SERVICE COMMISSION TO ESTABLISH A WATER COST INDEX, WHICH WOULD BE A

                    MEASUREMENT OF THE ANNUAL COST OF WATER FOR AN AVERAGE SINGLE-FAMILY

                    HOUSEHOLD SERVED BY A PUBLIC OR A PRIVATE WATER SUPPLIER.  THE PURPOSE

                                         43



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    OF THIS BILL IS TO PROVIDE A TOOL FOR COMPARISON OF WATER RATES.  I DON'T

                    KNOW ABOUT MY COLLEAGUES, I ASSUME THIS TO BE TRUE, BUT HERE IN

                    ROCKLAND COUNTY WE HAVE SEEN SKYROCKETING WATER RATES, AND

                    OFTENTIMES ARE PRESENTED WITH RATE CASES BEFORE THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    COMMISSION WITH AT TIMES DOUBLE-DIGIT INCREASES.  WHEN YOU ATTEMPT

                    TO TESTIFY OR DIG INTO THESE RATE INCREASES TO EITHER OPPOSE THEM OR TO

                    ANALYZE THEM, OFTENTIMES YOU'RE MET WITH DIFFICULTY BECAUSE THE WAY

                    THAT WATER SYSTEMS BILL AROUND THE STATE IS WILDLY DISPARATE.  ONE WATER

                    SYSTEM MAY USE GALLONS, ANOTHER WATER SYSTEM MAY USE THOUSANDS OF

                    GALLONS, CUBIC FEET, CENTUM CUBIC FEET.  I TOOK A LOOK AT MY WATER BILL

                    EARLIER AND I USED 5 -- 5 HUNDREDTHS OF CUBIC FEET.  NOW WHEN YOU

                    ATTEMPT TO COMPARE THAT TO ANY OTHER SYSTEM IN GALLONS OR THOUSANDS OF

                    GALLONS, IT COMES -- IT BECOMES VERY DIFFICULT.  SO YOU'RE PRESENTED WITH

                    THESE RATE INCREASE CASES AND YOU HAVE AN INABILITY TO LOOK AT WHAT

                    OTHER SYSTEMS ARE DOING TO TRY TO SHOW WHETHER OR NOT THOSE RATES ARE

                    JUSTIFIABLE OR NOT.  SO THIS WOULD HOPEFULLY PROVIDE RATEPAYERS, ALL OF

                    US, OTHER FOLKS AROUND THE STATE, WITH SOME AVERAGE DATA SO THAT EACH

                    YEAR WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT OUR WATER SYSTEMS ARE CHARGING AND TRY TO

                    MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE THE MOST COST-EFFECTIVE FOR ALL OF OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LEMONDES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                         44



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  YES, MR. SPEAKER, I YIELD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU.  JUST A FEW QUESTIONS.

                    I RECOGNIZED THAT THE PREVIOUS GOVERNOR'S VETO WITH RESPECT TO THE

                    FORMULA USED HAS BEEN ADDRESSED IN THIS VERSION.  HOWEVER, I'D LIKE TO

                    ASK IF WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT IS PROBLEMATIC SINCE IT'S BASED ON A

                    SINGLE-FAMILY HOME AND DOES NOT INCORPORATE COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL

                    CUSTOMERS.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  SO, THAT WAS -- SO THE GOVERNOR'S

                    VETO DIDN'T LIKE OUR LANGUAGE LAST TIME BECAUSE IT RECOGNIZED THAT THERE

                    ARE THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CUSTOMERS.  SO WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS THE

                    BEST WAY TO GO AHEAD FOR A FIRST SHOT AT THIS WAS TO FOCUS ON ONE TYPE OF

                    CUSTOMER.  THAT WAY IT WILL -- AND THEY'LL KIND OF FOLLOW, RIGHT?  SO IF

                    WE KNOW WHAT AN AVERAGE SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSEHOLD IS PAYING IN WATER,

                    WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE A SENSE WHAT ALSO ARE THE RATES IN THOSE OTHER

                    AREAS.  BUT CERTAINLY IN THE FUTURE IF WE GET THIS UP AND RUNNING AND IT

                    PROVES HELPFUL, WE COULD PERHAPS LOOK AT ESTABLISHING AN AVERAGE INDEX

                    FOR THOSE AS WELL.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THAT'S MY POINT EXACTLY.  DON'T

                    YOU THINK THAT THERE COULD BE GROSS ERRORS IN HOW THOSE RATES WERE USED

                    WHEN YOU'RE TAKING THE DIFFERENCE BASED ON SCALE BETWEEN SINGLE-

                    FAMILY HOMES AND THEN, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL

                    CUSTOMERS?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  I'M SORRY, I DON'T REALLY

                    UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.  WHY WOULD PROVIDING AN AVERAGE COST INDEX

                                         45



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    FOR RESIDENTIAL DO ANYTHING TO THE OTHER RATEPAYERS, INDUSTRIAL OR

                    OTHERWISE?

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  IT -- THAT'S -- THAT'S MY QUESTION.

                    WOULD IT -- WOULD IT IMPACT THEM?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  NO, I DON'T -- NO, I DON'T THINK IT

                    WOULD IMPACT THEM.  LOOK, AT THE END OF THE DAY RIGHT NOW THIS IS JUST

                    TAKING WHAT IS THE CURRENT RATE STRUCTURES AND THE CHARGES THAT OUR

                    WATER SYSTEM ARE LEVYING UPON CUSTOMERS AND TRYING TO HAVE THE PUBLIC

                    SERVICE COMMISSION PUT THEM IN A -- A READABLE AND UNDERSTANDABLE

                    WAY.  SO WE'LL START WITH RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS HERE.  WE'LL GET A SENSE

                    OF SORT OF WHAT THE AVERAGE RATES ARE ACROSS THE STATE.  I KNOW WHEN I

                    LOOK AT MY CURRENT WATER SYSTEM'S RATES, I HAVE TO GO BACK TO LIKE THE

                    COMPTROLLER'S STUDY FROM A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WHERE -- WHERE HE

                    ACTUALLY SHOWED THAT MY WATER SYSTEM IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE WATER IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  BUT I HAVE TO GO TO THAT COMPTROLLER'S REPORT

                    BECAUSE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND ANY AGGREGATE OR OTHER DATA AROUND

                    THE STATE.  SO THIS WILL JUST PROVIDE THAT.  NOW, IT WILL PROVIDE THIS IN

                    THIS ONE AREA OF RESIDENTIAL RATES.  I THINK IT WILL PROBABLY BE CORRECT

                    THAT IF YOU HAVE THE HIGHEST RESIDENTIAL RATES, YOU PROBABLY HAVE THE

                    HIGHEST WATER RATES IN THE OTHER CATEGORIES AS WELL.  BUT IN THE FUTURE

                    WE COULD PROBABLY LOOK AT THOSE, TOO, AND MAYBE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE

                    TO COME UP WITH TWO OTHER INDEXES, TOO.  YOU'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO

                    BALANCE, RIGHT, COMING UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S EFFICIENT AND SIMPLE

                    AND UNDERSTANDABLE WITH ALSO BEING AS THOROUGH AS POSSIBLE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  SO, THANK YOU.  I -- I READ WHERE

                                         46



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THE FORMULA CAN BE UPDATED AT THE DISCRETION OF THE COMMISSION.  DOES

                    THAT INCLUDE STAKEHOLDERS?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  WELL, THE COMMISSION CAN --

                    CAN EVALUATE WHATEVER INFORMATION THEY WANT TO EVALUATE IN THE

                    PROCESS, BUT IT'S THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION THAT WILL BE TASKED

                    WITH THIS.  BUT ONCE AGAIN, THIS WON'T BE CHANGING ANY RATES.  THIS IS

                    JUST COMING UP WITH AN -- AN INDEX OF THE CURRENT RATES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  SO WITH RESPECT TO THE

                    MUNICIPALITIES, THOUGH, THEY'RE ALREADY REQUIRED TO SUBMIT AN ANNUAL

                    REPORT TO THE COMMISSION.  WOULDN'T THIS BE -- OR HOW WOULD THIS NOT

                    BE REDUNDANT FOR THEM?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT ANY OF

                    THESE ANNUAL REPORTS PROVIDE AVERAGE DATA.  SO IF YOU'RE A WATER SYSTEM

                    AND YOU'RE TELLING EVERYBODY WHAT YOU DO IN HUNDREDS OF CUBIC FEET,

                    WELL, THAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO COMPARE TO ANOTHER WATER SYSTEM THAT'S

                    DOING GALLONS OR THOUSANDS OF GALLONS.  I MEAN, LIKE I SAID EARLIER,

                    LOOKING AT MY BILL - AND I'M SURE, YOU KNOW, YOUR CONSTITUENTS OR ALL OF

                    OUR CONSTITUENTS CAN LOOK AT THEIR BILL - IT SAYS 5 AT $5.30 -- 34 -- I'M

                    SORRY, 5 AT $5.3421 EFF.  AND UNDER THAT IS COW 5 AT $1.31 EFF.

                    AND THERE'S A FACILITY CHARGE, A MAKE WHOLE SURCHARGE AND A

                    RECONCILIATION BEFORE I GET MY TOTAL CHARGES.  YOUR BILL PROBABLY LOOKS

                    TOTALLY DIFFERENT.  SO IF YOU AND I WERE GOING TO SIT DOWN AND TRY TO

                    ATTEMPT TO SEE WHAT YOUR WATER SYSTEM CHARGE IS COMPARED TO MY

                    WATER SYSTEM, WE'D PROBABLY BE SITTING THERE ALL DAY, AND THAT'S WHAT

                    THIS SEEKS TO FIX.

                                         47



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  SO ON THAT POINT, RECOGNIZING THE

                    OPPOSITION FROM THE CONFERENCE OF MAYORS AND MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS,

                    DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S VALID TO STILL GO THROUGH WITH THIS RECOGNIZING THAT

                    ALL OF THOSE OFFICIALS ENTRUSTED WITH HAVING TO IMPLEMENT THIS ARE IN

                    OPPOSITION TO IT?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE --

                    ANY -- ANY OFFICIAL WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PROVIDING THE AVERAGE

                    COST BASED UPON A FORMULA BY THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO THEIR

                    CONSTITUENTS.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU.  I APPRECIATE YOUR

                    RESPONSES.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  SO, RECOGNIZING THE SPONSOR'S

                    ATTEMPT HERE, I THINK THE -- THE ATTEMPT HAS -- HAS VALUE.  BUT I AM

                    PERSONALLY GOING TO VOTE AGAINST THIS BASED ON THE FOLLOWING REASONS

                    AND URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO SO.  THIS WILL INCREASE COST, IT WILL

                    INCREASE -- IT WILL INCREASE THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN, AND IT WILL ALSO --

                    IT -- IT ALSO POSES A PROBLEM BECAUSE THOSE OFFICIALS, AS I PREVIOUSLY

                    CITED, THE BIPARTISAN CONFERENCE OF MAYORS AND MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS

                    HAVE PUT IN WRITING THEIR OPPOSITION TO THIS.

                                 SO BASED ON THOSE REASONS, I URGE ALL COLLEAGUES TO

                    VOTE NO.  I DON'T THINK THIS IS -- THIS IS READY YET.  I THINK WITH FURTHER

                    ADJUSTMENTS IT COULD BE, BUT IT IS NOT NOW.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                         48



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. MONTESANO.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  YES, MR. SPEAKER, I YIELD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU.  MR. ZEBROWSKI,

                    THE -- IN ESSENCE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR HERE IS A UNIFORM BILLING TYPE

                    OF STATEMENT OR SYSTEM?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  NOT A UNIFORM BILL.  THEY'LL STILL

                    BE ABLE TO ISSUE THE BILLS AS THEY CURRENTLY ISSUE THEM AND MEASURE

                    WATER AS IT SEEMS TO BE MOST EFFICIENT FOR THEM.  BUT THIS BILL WILL HAVE

                    THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION COME UP WITH A FORMULA AND THEN POST

                    IT ANNUALLY SO THAT THERE'S AN AVERAGE COST FOR ALL THE SYSTEMS REGARDLESS

                    OF HOW THEY MEASURE THEIR WATER USAGE OR BILL THEIR CUSTOMERS.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE

                    CONFRONTED WITH THIS ISSUE LIKE THIS OUT IN NASSAU COUNTY, THAT WITH THE

                    HELP OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE FROM THE DISTRICT WE WERE ABLE TO GET SOME

                    -- SOME CHANGE.  WE WENT FROM A PRIVATE WATER SYSTEM, HOPEFULLY

                    WE'RE MOVING INTO A PUBLIC WATER SYSTEM.  BUT STILL, THE COST FOR ALL

                    THESE WATER DISTRICTS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT, WHETHER THEY BE A

                    MUNICIPAL WATER SYSTEM OR A PRIVATE WATER SYSTEM.  THEY ALL DO HAVE

                    DIFFERENT EXPENSES, WHETHER IT BE THEIR PAYROLL EXPENSES, THEIR

                                         49



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    INFRASTRUCTURE EXPENSES, HOW MUCH THEY CHARGE FOR HYDRANT RENTALS.  SO

                    I UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE PRIVATE HOUSES.  THAT'S THE ONE YOU WANT TO ZERO

                    IN ON FIRST.  BUT I -- BUT I THINK REALLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS THAT I

                    THINK THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION NEEDS TO EXERT SOME KIND OF

                    CONTROL OVER THE WATER PROVIDERS AS TO WHAT THEIR COSTS ARE AND WHAT

                    THEY COULD PASS ON TO THE CONSUMER.  RIGHT NOW WE'RE GOING TO BE

                    SEEING AN UPTICK, ESPECIALLY OUT ON LONG ISLAND BECAUSE OF ALL THE NEW

                    INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HAD TO BE BUILT BY THE MUNICIPAL WATER SYSTEMS TO

                    DEAL WITH ALL THE NEW EMERGING CONTAMINANTS THAT ARE BEING FOUND, AND

                    THEY HAD TO DESIGN EQUIPMENT TO FILTER THEM OUT.  SO IN SOME CASES THEY

                    HAVE TO BUILD NEW HOUSING FOR THOSE STRUCTURES.  THE -- THE EQUIPMENT

                    IS VERY EXPENSIVE.  SO IT'S DRIVING UP THE COST, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERABLY.

                    SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS BILL IS GOING TO DO IN THE SENSE OF THAT, BUT --

                    EXCEPT FOR SHOWING AN AVERAGE.  BUT YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT AN AVERAGE

                    BY COUNTY OR BY REGION BECAUSE IT'S JUST UNPREDICTABLE AS TO WHAT THESE

                    NUMBERS COULD, YOU KNOW, RESULT IN.  NOW, HOW DO YOU ANTICIPATE

                    WHEN THIS GETS DONE, THIS REPORT, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THEY ALREADY

                    HAVE AT THEIR FINGERTIPS AND IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TRANSMITTING IT TO THE

                    PSC?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  FIRST LET ME SAY I AGREE WITH

                    YOU, MR. MONTESANO.  AND SO THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO GIVE US A

                    COMPARISON TOOL SO WE CAN LOOK AT ALL THOSE THINGS.  BECAUSE I FIND IT,

                    EVEN AS A POLICY MAKER, REALLY UNDECIPHERABLE AT TIMES WHEN YOU GO

                    BEFORE THESE RATE CASES AND TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT.  LIKE I MENTIONED

                    EARLIER, IN -- IN MY CURRENT WATER BILL A FACILITY CHARGE, A MAKE WHOLE

                                         50



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    SURCHARGE, A RECONCILIATION.  WHY THESE THINGS ARE -- ARE SO

                    INDECIPHERABLE IS BEYOND ME.  AND HOPEFULLY IF WE CAN HAVE SOME

                    MORE INFORMATION FROM THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION WE'LL BE ABLE

                    TO BREAK THAT DOWN A LITTLE BIT.  I'M SORRY, MR. MONTESANO.  IN ME

                    ATTEMPTING TO ANSWER YOUR -- YOUR --

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  IT'S OKAY.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  -- (INAUDIBLE), I FORGOT YOUR

                    QUESTION.  COULD YOU GIVE IT TO ME AGAIN?

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  NO, IT'S -- YOU BASICALLY

                    ANSWERED WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.  I JUST WANT TO KNOW ABOUT DO THESE

                    WATER COMPANIES ALREADY POSSESS THIS INFORMATION IN THEIR ANNUAL

                    REPORTS THAT THEY JUST HAVE TO TRANSMIT IT TO THE PSC OR DO THEY HAVE TO

                    CREATE A WHOLE NEW TYPE OF REPORT TO GIVE TO THE PSC?

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  YES, SORRY.  I THINK THIS

                    INFORMATION IS READILY OBTAINABLE, IF NOT ALREADY SUBMITTED BY THE WATER

                    SYSTEMS, JUST NOT IN A WAY THAT IS EASILY READABLE OR DIGESTIBLE BY

                    RATEPAYERS OR BY FOLKS LIKE YOU OR ME.  SO I THINK -- WELL, THE PUBLIC

                    SERVICE COMMISSION WILL COME UP WITH A UNIFORM SET OF FACTORS THAT

                    WILL LOOK AT THINGS LIKE USAGE FEES, TAXES, SEASONAL RATE STRUCTURES, ET

                    CETERA, AND THEY'LL COME UP WITH THIS FORMULA SO IT'S NOT LIKE EVERY

                    WATER SYSTEM IS COMING UP WITH THEIR OWN FORMULA.  AND THEN IT WILL

                    BE JUST A MATTER OF SOMEBODY PUNCHING IN THEIR DATA INTO THIS FORMULA.

                    I CAN'T IMAGINE IT'LL TAKE TOO LONG IF -- IF NOT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE 15, 30

                    MINUTES FOR SOMEBODY TO DO.  I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT, MR. MONTESANO,

                    THAT WE DO LIMIT THIS TO WATER SYSTEMS THAT ARE SERVING OVER 1,000

                                         51



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    CUSTOMERS SO AS TO NOT GET INVOLVED IN THE SMALL NEIGHBORHOOD WATER

                    SYSTEMS.  THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WATER SYSTEMS AROUND THE STATE.  SO

                    ACTUALLY, I THINK THERE'S -- MY DATA SHOWS 8,507 WATER SYSTEMS IN THE

                    STATE, AND THIS BILL WOULD ONLY APPLY TO 768 OF THEM.  SO WHILE THAT'S A

                    SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL NUMBER OF SYSTEMS, IT ACTUALLY IS A VAST

                    MAJORITY OF THE CUSTOMERS BECAUSE MOST CUSTOMERS ARE SERVED BY VERY

                    LARGE SYSTEMS.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    ZEBROWSKI.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 797.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  MANY OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS BILL, NO DOUBT, BECAUSE IT PROVIDES

                    AN ADDITIONAL DISCLOSURE TO CONSUMERS SO THEY CAN COMPARE HOW THEIR

                    WATER RATES ARE COMPARED TO OTHER JURISDICTIONS.  AND I APPRECIATE THAT

                    TRANSPARENCY, AND -- AND I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL SUPPORT

                    THAT.  FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IT'S AN EXPENSIVE BUT MEANINGLESS

                    COMPARISON, BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE WATER JUGS NEXT

                                         52



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    DOOR TO GET CHEAPER WATER.  I MEAN, IF YOU'RE IN A MUNICIPALITY, IF YOU

                    WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH YOUR WATER RATE IS FOR RESIDENTIAL YOU LOOK AT

                    YOUR BILL.  THAT'S THE MOST MEANINGFUL RATE.  AND THE FACT THAT THE WATER

                    MAY BE MORE EXPENSIVE OR LESS EXPENSIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE STATE

                    OR IN A DIFFERENT COUNTY OR EVEN IN DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITY IN MY OPINION

                    REALLY KIND OF MISSES THE MARK.  BUT WHAT IS GUARANTEED UNDER THIS BILL

                    IS THAT OUR WATER COMPANIES WILL BE INCURRING ADDITIONAL COSTS TO

                    PREPARE THIS REPORT.  AND SO THOSE OF US WHO HAVE TO RELY ON THAT WATER

                    AND HAVE TO PAY THE RATE NO MATTER WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE I THINK ARE

                    GOING TO BE PAYING HIGHER RATES SO THAT WE KNOW HOW MUCH HIGHER

                    WE'RE PAYING COMPARED TO EVERYONE ELSE.  AND SO I JUST DON'T SEE THE

                    PURPOSE OF THE BILL.  BUT I KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT DOES GET MORE

                    INFORMATION THAT IF YOU WANT TO -- I SUPPOSE IF YOU'RE SHOPPING FOR A

                    HOUSE IN A DIFFERENT LOCALE AND YOUR -- THE PRICE OF WATER IS A FACTOR IN

                    YOUR PURCHASE THEN THIS WOULD BE HELPFUL.  BUT IF YOU'RE LIVING WHERE

                    YOU'RE LIVING AND YOU'RE JUST PAYING THE BILL IT ISN'T GOING TO HELP, IT'S

                    JUST GOING TO RAISE THE COST.

                                 FOR THAT REASON I'LL BE A NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. GRIFFIN.

                                 MS. GRIFFIN:  THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO

                    EXPLAIN -- EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS

                    IMPORTANT LEGISLATION FORWARD.  ON LONG ISLAND WE HAVE MANY

                    (INAUDIBLE), ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO PRIVATE WATER RATES.  ANYTHING

                                         53



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WE CAN DO TO PROVIDE TRANSPARENCY TOWARDS OUR CUSTOMERS IS KEY.

                    ESTABLISHING A REPORTING OF RESIDENTIAL WATER COST INDEXES IS A STEP IN

                    THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

                                 I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GRIFFIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  JUST TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  HAVING BEEN A FORMER TOWN

                    SUPERVISOR AND HAVING OUR VILLAGE DISSOLVE AND TAKING OUR VILLAGE OVER,

                    THEY HAD A WATER PLANT AND WE HAD TO TAKE OVER THE WHOLE -- THE WHOLE

                    WATER SYSTEM.  AND IN UPSTATE -- I'M SORRY, IN RURAL AREAS THE WATER

                    RATES ARE SO MUCH DIFFERENT.  THERE'S SO MANY MORE VARIABLES.  HOW OLD

                    IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE?  HOW OLD ARE THE PIPES?  WHERE ARE YOU GETTING

                    THE WATER FROM?  HOW FAR IS IT TO GET TO WHERE THE PLANT IS?  SOME --

                    SOME OF OUR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES DRAW FROM LAKE ONTARIO, SOME FROM

                    CANANDAIGUA LAKE.  SOME FROM WELLS, SOME NEED TO BE SOFTENED, SOME

                    NEED OTHER STUFF ADDED TO THE WATER.  AND IT MAY BE OKAY FOR A CITY AREA

                    TO LOOK AT THIS WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING AT ONE SOURCE OF WATER COMING IN

                    WITH A -- WITH A WIDE -- A WIDE SPECTRUM OF INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THE CITY.

                    BUT FOR OUR RURAL AREAS, MANY OF OUR SMALL COMMUNITIES HAVE, YOU

                    KNOW, A WELL, A BACKUP FROM A -- FROM A NEIGHBORING TOWN.  IT WOULD

                    BE PRETTY TOUGH TO DO THIS.  AND I THINK THEY'RE DOING A GOOD JOB AND I

                    THINK WE AS LOCAL OFFICIALS BACK HOME DO A GOOD JOB OF LETTING OUR

                    PEOPLE KNOW HOW MUCH THEIR WATER IS, WHAT WAS THE TRUE COST, AND IF

                                         54



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    NOT WE HAVE PUBLIC HEARINGS.

                                 SO I'D LOVE TO SUPPORT THIS BUT I CAN'T RIGHT NOW

                    BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK WELL FOR -- FOR CERTAIN AREAS IN MY DISTRICT.  SO

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. ZEBROWSKI:  THANKS, MR. SPEAKER.  I DON'T

                    WANT TO BELABOR THE -- THE DEBATE HERE, BUT JUST TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL

                    THING WHILE EXPLAINING MY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, WE HAVE NOT

                    RECEIVED ANY MEMOS OF OPPOSITION.  SO I KNOW DURING THE DEBATE IT

                    WAS SUGGESTED THAT NYCOM AND MAYBE SOME MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS

                    OPPOSED THIS.  PERHAPS A COUPLE FOLKS EXPRESSED SOME OPPOSITION TO

                    SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES, BUT WE HAVE RECEIVED NO OFFICIAL OPPOSITION.

                    I'VE RECEIVED NO PHONE CALLS, NO CORRESPONDENCE FROM ANYBODY IN THE

                    MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT SUGGESTING THAT THEY DON'T SUPPORT THIS.  AND

                    THIS BILL, AS WAS SAID EARLIER, I THINK WAS PASSED UNANIMOUSLY, I THINK.

                    AND ALTHOUGH IT WAS VETOED BY THE GOVERNOR AND WE DO BELIEVE WE

                    HAVE ADDRESSED THAT VETO MESSAGE, IT'S CERTAINLY BEEN AROUND FOR A BIT.

                    SO ANY OF THESE ASSOCIATIONS COULD HAVE AVAILED THEMSELVES OF EITHER

                    MEMOING OR CONTACTING OUR OFFICE.

                                 SO FOR ALL THE -- THAT REASON AND ALL THE PRIOR REASONS

                    DURING THE DEBATE, MR. SPEAKER, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ZEBROWSKI IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                         55



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE

                    TO ADDRESS THE -- THE STATEMENT THAT WAS JUST MADE.  I HAVE RIGHT HERE --

                    I'M READING IT -- MEMORANDUM IN OPPOSITION BECAUSE IT WOULD CREATE

                    AN UNFUNDED MANDATE IF THIS WERE TO BE ENACTED.  AND IT IS DATED

                    MARCH 22, 2022.  IT WAS SENT TO ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI AND SENATOR

                    COMRIE, AND IT IS SIGNED RR -- I CAN'T MAKE OUT THE NAME ON THE

                    SIGNATURE, BUT IT IS THE NYCOM MEMORANDUM.  HERE IT IS FOR ALL TO SEE.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  PLEASE

                    RECORD MY COLLEAGUES MR. DIPIETRO AND MR. NORRIS IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

                    COULD PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MR. EPSTEIN IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERRUPT OUR PROCEEDINGS VERY BRIEFLY

                                         56



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    FOR THE INTRODUCING OF GUESTS OF OUR COLLEAGUE CARRIE WOERNER.  THESE

                    ARE STUDENTS FROM THE TRIO UPWARD BOUND PROGRAM AT SUNY

                    ADIRONDACK.  TRIO IS A COLLEGE PREP PROGRAM FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS

                    FROM LOW-INCOME FAMILIES, MANY OF WHOM WHO WILL BE THE FIRST IN

                    THEIR FAMILIES TO ATTEND COLLEGE.  MR. SPEAKER, WE HAVE WITH US TODAY IN

                    THE CHAMBERS FOR THEIR ANNUAL LEADERSHIP AND GOVERNANCE DAY,

                    PATRICK GREENE.  HE'S THE DIRECTOR OF TRIO.  ECHO CUTTER IS AN ADVISOR.

                    AND STUDENTS.  ADAM BRENNAN, HE'S A SOPHOMORE AT SOUTH GLENS [SIC]

                    HIGH SCHOOL.  EDEN GILLIS IS A JUNIOR AT ARGYLE HIGH SCHOOL.  PAYTON

                    MATTISON -- KYLIE MATTISON IS A FRESHMAN AT ARGYLE HIGH SCHOOL.

                    ANGELA MORRISON IS A SOPHOMORE AT GLENS FALLS HIGH SCHOOL.  NYX

                    NELSON IS A JUNIOR AT NORTH WARREN HIGH SCHOOL.  AND AMELIA

                    SCROGGINS IS A FRESHMAN AT NORTH WARREN HIGH SCHOOL.  AND LENA --

                    LENA SCROGGINS IS A SOPHOMORE AT NORTH WARREN HIGH SCHOOL.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU COULD WELCOME THESE SCHOLARS AS

                    WELL AS THEIR ADVISORS TO OUR FLOOR AND GIVE THEM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE

                    HOUSE ON BEHALF OF MS. WOERNER AND ALL THE COLLEAGUES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MS. WOERNER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU

                    HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF

                    THE FLOOR.  THANK YOUR SUPERVISORS AND FOR THE WORK THAT THEY DO WITH

                    YOU.  HOPE THAT YOU ALL WILL BE SUCCESSFUL AND THAT YOU WILL HAVE

                    LEARNED SOMETHING HERE IN ALBANY ON YOUR TRIP.  AND KNOW THAT YOU'RE

                    ALWAYS WELCOME TO COME BACK.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH, AND

                    CONGRATULATIONS.

                                         57



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IF WE COULD CONTINUE OUR FLOOR WORK TODAY, WE'RE GOING TO GO

                    TO CALENDAR NO. 100.  IT'S ON PAGE 13 BY MS. SIMON.  FOLLOWED BY

                    CALENDAR NO. 174.  IT'S ON PAGE 20 BY MS. GLICK.  AND THEN

                    IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THAT, CALENDAR NO. 178.  IT'S ON PAGE 20 AS WELL.

                    THAT ONE'S BY MR. ENGLEBRIGHT.  IN THAT ORDER, SIR.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 PAGE 13, CALENDAR NO. 100, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02251-A, CALENDAR

                    NO. 100, SIMON, FERNANDEZ, CRUZ, REYES, GLICK, WEPRIN, BURDICK,

                    JACOBSON, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE CLOSURE OF HOSPITALS OR EMERGENCY OR MATERNITY DEPARTMENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. SIMON.

                                 MS. SIMON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  CURRENT LAW

                    REQUIRES A COMMUNITY FORUM TO BE HELD AFTER A GENERAL HOSPITAL HAS

                    ALREADY BEEN CLOSED, AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH

                    TO CONSIDER THE HEALTH NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY, INCLUDING EMERGENCY

                    MEDICAL CARE, TRANSITIONAL CARE OR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AS PART OF THE

                    COMMISSIONER'S DECISION TO APPROVE A HOSPITAL CLOSURE.  THIS BILL

                    WOULD ESTABLISH A PROCEDURE FOR THE CLOSURE OF A GENERAL HOSPITAL THAT

                    WOULD INCLUDE ADVANCED NOTICE SO BEFORE THE HOSPITAL CLOSES WE WOULD

                                         58



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    ENGAGE WITH COMMUNITY, PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO HAVE

                    PUBLIC COMMENTS.  AND FOR THE HOSPITAL CLOSURE PLAN TO REFLECT THE

                    NEEDS -- THE HEALTHCARE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUESTION?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SIMON, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. SIMON YIELDS.

                                 MS. SIMON:  CERTAINLY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MS. SIMON.  FIRST, I

                    JUST WANT TO KIND OF TAKE A LOOK AT THE TIME FRAME THAT'S ENVISIONED BY

                    THIS BILL TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND IT.  SO BEFORE A HOSPITAL WOULD

                    CLOSE, A MATERNITY WARD OR EMERGENCY ROOM OR CLOSE COMPLETELY, THEY

                    WOULD BE REQUIRED TO GIVE AT LEAST 30 DAYS NOTICE TO THE -- THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, RIGHT?  OR SEND IN THEIR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION.

                                 MS. SIMON:  WELL, THE HOSPITAL WOULD HAVE TO APPLY

                    FOR PERMISSION TO CLOSE, AND THEY WOULD NEED TO -- THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    HEALTH WOULD THEN NEED TO NOTIFY THE PUBLIC, AS WELL AS THE LOCAL

                    ELECTED OFFICIALS WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE APPLICATION HAVING BEEN FILED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  SO JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, LET'S

                    SAY THEY -- THEY MAKE THAT DECISION THEY HAVE TO CLOSE FOR WHATEVER

                    REASON.  THEY -- THEY NOTIFY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, SAY, JANUARY 1ST.

                    THEN AT THE END OF JANUARY, 30 -- WITHIN 30 DAYS, IT COULD BE AS LATE AS

                    THE END OF JANUARY, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT THEN SUBMITS A WRITTEN

                                         59



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    NOTIFICATION TO OTHERS.  THEY THEN SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING, RIGHT, AND

                    THEY HAVE -- THEY COULD HAVE AS MUCH AS 60 TO 75 DAYS AFTER THAT TO

                    SCHEDULE THE PUBLIC HEARING, RIGHT?

                                 MS. SIMON:  WELL, THEY HAVE TO -- THE WAY THIS

                    WOULD WORK IS THEY WOULD BE 30 DAYS SUBSEQUENT TO THE FILING OF AN

                    APPLICATION.  THAT NOTICE WOULD ALSO NEED TO PROVIDE A COPY OF WHAT

                    THAT APPLICATION PROPOSAL IS FOR THE CLOSURE OF THE HOSPITAL.  THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WOULD HAVE TO NOTIFY THE LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS

                    AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC, AND THEN THEY WOULD NEED TO HAVE A COMMUNITY

                    FORUM.  SO IT'S NOT A FORMAL HEARING WITH TESTIMONY, IT WOULD BE A

                    COMMUNITY FORUM THAT WOULD HAVE TO TAKE PLACE AT LEAST 60 DAYS PRIOR

                    TO THE PROPOSED CLOSURE DATE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND THAT, OF COURSE, WOULD BE --

                    THAT NOTICE COULD GO OUT AS LATE AS 45 DAYS AFTER THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION

                    WAS SUBMITTED, CORRECT?

                                 MS. SIMON:  IT COULD, YES.  IT DOESN'T HAVE TO WAIT 45

                    DAYS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND THEN THE PUBLIC FORUM HAS TO

                    BE AT LEAST 60 DAYS PRIOR TO ANY CLOSURE.  SO YOU HAVE THE INITIAL 30

                    DAYS.  THEN YOU PICK UP ANOTHER 15 TO 60.  I MEAN, 15 BECAUSE THE

                    NOTICE COULD GO OUT AFTER 45.  THAT'S 15 MORE.  PLUS 60 DAYS IT HAS TO BE

                    IN ADVANCE.  SIXTY DAYS NOTICE.  AND AFTER THEY HAVE THE COMMUNITY

                    FORUM THEY'RE REQUIRED TO ACCEPT WRITTEN COMMENTS AFTER THAT, RIGHT?

                                 MS. SIMON:  WELL, THE -- THEY'RE REQUIRED TO ALLOW

                    WRITTEN COMMENTS.  THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO -- PEOPLE ARE NOT REQUIRED

                                         60



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    TO COMMENT.  THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS IS TO HAVE NOTICE IN ADVANCE SO

                    THAT WHEN A HOSPITAL MAY BE CLOSING OR KEY TIME-SENSITIVE

                    DEPARTMENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ARE OFTEN -- ARE NOT SUBJECT TO A FULL

                    REVIEW CURRENTLY, ARE ABOUT TO CLOSE, THAT THE PUBLIC KNOWS AND THAT THE

                    LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS KNOW SO THEY CAN ALSO INFORM THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

                    AND THE IDEA IS TO ENSURE THAT THERE'S ACTUAL INFORMATION PROVIDED TO

                    THE PUBLIC.  AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, ANY PROPOSAL AND THE CLOSURE PLAN

                    HAS TO BE PROVIDED TO THE PUBLIC SO THEY'RE NOT GUESSING.  AND ALSO, THE

                    PUBLIC HAS TO BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO -- TO ENGAGE EITHER AT A PUBLIC

                    FORUM OR SEPARATELY BY WRITTEN COMMENTS.  AND THAT ALL HAS TO BE

                    ONLINE AS WELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND I APPRECIATE THAT.  BUT JUST

                    FOCUSING A LITTLE BIT ON THE TIME FRAME.  WE TALKED ABOUT THE 30 DAYS

                    INITIAL, ANOTHER 15, 60.  ANOTHER TWO WEEKS FOR WRITTEN COMMENTS.

                    AFTER THAT 120 DAY NOTICE, IS THERE ANY TIME FRAME IN THIS BILL FOR THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO ACTUALLY MAKE ANY DECISION?

                                 MS. SIMON:  I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THE -- TO MAKING

                    A DECISION?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  RIGHT.

                                 MS. SIMON:  NO.  THIS DOESN'T REQUIRE THEM TO MAKE

                    A DECISION WITHIN A PARTICULAR PERIOD OF TIME.  SOMETIMES THOSE CLOSURE

                    DECISIONS TAKE LONGER THAN OTHERS, BUT THIS DOESN'T MANDATE A PARTICULAR

                    TIME FRAME FOR THE DECISION TO CLOSE OR TO CLOSE A DEPARTMENT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, WHY WOULD A -- MAYBE YOU

                    CAN BRING ME UP TO SPEED.  WHY WOULD A HOSPITAL SEEK TO CLOSE?  I

                                         61



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    MEAN, IT SEEMS KIND OF FINAL IF THE WHOLE HOSPITAL IS CLOSING.  WHY

                    WOULD A HOSPITAL SEEK TO CLOSE?

                                 MS. SIMON:  YOU KNOW, YOU GOT ME.  HOSPITALS

                    CLOSE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS ALL THE TIME.  USUALLY THOSE REASONS ARE

                    NOT REASONS THE PUBLIC KNOWS.  THIS -- PART OF THE IMPETUS FOR THIS BILL

                    CAME OUT OF A CLOSURE OF A HOSPITAL IN MY DISTRICT.  IT WAS A HOSPITAL

                    THAT HAD BEEN AROUND FOR OVER 150 YEARS.  IT WAS A COMMUNITY HOSPITAL.

                    IT SERVED THE COMMUNITY, INCLUDING OUR PUBLIC HOUSING IN RED HOOK,

                    FOR EXAMPLE, WAS THEIR MAIN HOSPITAL.  IT SERVED OUR COPS, THE POLICE

                    PRECINCT WAS DOWN THE BLOCK.  THIS WAS A PLACE WHERE EVERYBODY USED.

                    AND A BIG OPERATOR CAME IN, KIND OF DRAINED THEM OF MONEY.  TOOK ALL

                    THAT MONEY AND BROUGHT IT TO MANHATTAN.  THE STATE TOOK OVER FOR A

                    COUPLE OF YEARS AND DID NOT DO WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE DONE.  AND SO ONE

                    OF THE BIG -- BIG ISSUES THAT WE FOUND WAS THAT THERE WAS VERY LITTLE

                    INFORMATION ACTUALLY PROVIDED TO THE PUBLIC.  WE DID KNOW FROM

                    ENGAGING WITH THE DOCTORS AND WITH OTHER PERSONNEL AT THE HOSPITAL THAT

                    THEY HAD A GREAT PAYOR MIX BUT THEY WEREN'T BILLING.  SO WE WOULD

                    KNOW THAT INFORMATION BEFOREHAND BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF THEY HAD

                    BILLED, THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SURVIVE.  BUT THAT WASN'T PART OF

                    THE CORPORATE PLAN.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO USING YOUR EXAMPLE, YOU

                    INDICATED THAT A PAYOR TOOK ALL THE MONEY OUT SO THE HOSPITAL RAN OUT OF

                    MONEY.  THE STATE STEPPED IN, THE STATE RAN IT FOR A FEW YEARS.  NOW,

                    YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT OUR STATE BUDGET -- WELL, I'M SORRY, LOOKING

                    FORWARD TO SEEING A STATE BUDGET, I WOULD SUSPECT THE STATE WOULD HAVE

                                         62



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    MONEY TO RUN A HOSPITAL FOREVER.  WHY DID THE STATE SHUT IT DOWN?

                                 MS. SIMON:  IT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.  AND WE

                    WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT WHY THEY DID THAT IF WE HAD THE INFORMATION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WHAT WAS THE EXPLANATION THEY

                    GAVE?  DID THEY SAY THEY WERE SHUTTING IT DOWN BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T

                    WANT TO KEEP SUBSIDIZING IT?

                                 MS. SIMON:  YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A WHOLE HOST OF

                    REASONS GIVEN.  AND I WOULD HAVE TO REFER BACK TO THE RECORD.  THE

                    REALITY IS THAT THE STATE DID A PARTICULARLY POOR JOB OF MEETING ITS

                    PROMISES TO THE COMMUNITY WHEN IT TOOK OVER THAT HOSPITAL.  SPENT A

                    LOT OF MONEY ON SIGNAGE, NOT A LOT OF MONEY ON MAKING THE -- THE

                    UPGRADES THAT THEY HAD PROMISED.  SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY DIDN'T BRING IN

                    THE EQUIPMENT THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD.  THIS WAS A LEVEL 1 TRAUMA

                    CENTER.  THIS WAS A STROKE CENTER.  THIS WAS A FINE HOSPITAL, AND THE

                    STATE KIND OF BLEW IT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW OF COURSE I'M HEARING FROM ALL

                    MY HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS, I'M SURE YOU ARE IN YOUR DISTRICT AS WELL, THAT

                    THEY HAVE AN ACUTE STAFFING SHORTAGE.  AND MANY OF MY FACILITIES HAVE

                    ACTUALLY REDUCED OCCUPANCY IN ORDER TO MEET STAFFING RATIOS.  AND --

                    AND INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY CAN ACCEPT AT THE

                    HOSPITAL.  IS THERE ANY EXCEPTION IN TERMS OF ALLOWING A HOSPITAL TO

                    CLOSE IF IT IS UNABLE TO STAFF IT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RATIOS THAT THIS

                    LEGISLATURE SUGGESTS?

                                 MS. SIMON:  THIS BILL IS NOT ABOUT STAFFING RATIOS,

                    AND IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY REQUIREMENTS FOR -- FOR THAT OR ANY OTHER TYPES

                                         63



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    OF SPECIFIC ISSUES WITH REGARD TO THE RUNNING OF THE HOSPITAL.  WHAT IT

                    DOES REQUIRE IS NOTICE.  AND IT DOES REQUIRE ENGAGEMENT.  AND IT DOES

                    REQUIRE THAT THE UNMET NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY THAT MAYBE, FOR

                    EXAMPLE, THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH AN ANALYSIS.  WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO

                    PROVIDE HEALTHCARE FOR THE POPULATIONS THAT THIS HOSPITAL SERVES IN AN

                    ALTERNATIVE SETTING?  WE DON'T KNOW THAT UNTIL WE DO THAT ANALYSIS.  SO

                    IT REQUIRES THEM TO DO THAT WORK, AND IT REQUIRES THEM TO COMMUNICATE

                    THAT AND ENGAGE WITH THE -- THE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SERVED

                    BY THE HOSPITAL.  YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD 41 HOSPITALS CLOSE IN THE LAST 21

                    YEARS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  MM-HMM.

                                 MS. SIMON:  FORTY-ONE HOSPITALS, COMPLETE CLOSURES.

                    THAT'S A REALLY DANGEROUS THING FOR -- FOR THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  IS THERE ANY FUNDING IN THIS BILL OR

                    ANY FUNDING MECHANISM IN THIS BILL TO KEEP A HOSPITAL OPEN WHILE THE

                    HEALTH DEPARTMENT EVALUATES THIS?

                                 MS. SIMON:  THIS IS ABOUT ENGAGEMENT AND

                    INVOLVING THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES IN THE DETERMINATIONS AS TO WHETHER

                    THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WILL PERMIT A HOSPITAL TO CLOSE.  THOSE OTHER

                    MECHANISMS THAT THE HOSPITAL -- THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH MAY HAVE TO

                    ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES ARE NOT PART OF THIS BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND ARE YOU AWARE OF OTHER

                    MECHANISMS THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS TO KEEP A HOSPITAL OPEN

                    INDEFINITELY WHILE THEY REVIEW IT IN TERMS OF COVERING STAFF SALARIES -

                    WHICH OF COURSE WE ALL THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT - ENSURING THAT THE

                                         64



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    NURSING STAFFAGE REMAINS HIGH AND THEY DON'T LEAVE FOR OTHER FACILITIES,

                    THINKING THAT THEIR OWN HOSPITAL IS GOING TO CLOSE?  DO WE HAVE ANY

                    MECHANISM TO ENSURE THAT THE ACCOUNTS PAYABLE ARE BEING MET SO WE

                    GET THE BANDAGES AND THE SUPPLIES AND THE DISINFECTANTS THAT A HOSPITAL

                    NEEDS TO OPERATE SAFELY?  ARE YOU AWARE OF THOSE PROGRAMS?

                                 MS. SIMON:  THOSE ISSUES WOULD BE ADDRESSED IN THE

                    CLOSURE PLAN.  AND THE RESPONSE TO THOSE ISSUES WOULD BE PART OF WHAT

                    WOULD BE PART OF THAT ENGAGEMENT WITH COMMUNITY AND ALSO WITH THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW IF A HOSPITAL ACTUALLY DECLARES

                    BANKRUPTCY, AM I CORRECT, THE FEDERAL BANKRUPTCY WOULD PREEMPT ANY

                    STATE LAWS?

                                 MS. SIMON:  YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I DO WHEN THERE'S

                    AN AUTOMATIC STAY BY VIRTUE OF FILING WITH THE BANKRUPTCY COURT THAT

                    WOULD, IN FACT, CONTROL THE PROCESS.  IT DOESN'T MEAN THERE WOULDN'T BE

                    ANY PROCESS.  AND, IN FACT, AS YOU'RE AWARE, MANY, MANY TIMES WHEN

                    THERE'S A BANKRUPTCY FILED THERE IS A PLAN THAT WORKS OUT A WAY FOR THE

                    INSTITUTION TO REMAIN OPEN AND ALSO TO PAY ITS DEBTS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. SIMON.

                    AS ALWAYS, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

                                 MS. SIMON:  THANK YOU, MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I NOT ONLY APPRECIATE MY

                                         65



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    COLLEAGUE'S COMMENTS, I APPRECIATE HER DESIRE THAT HOSPITALS PROVIDE A

                    GREAT DEAL OF NOTICE BEFORE THEY CLOSE AND THAT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT

                    REVIEW ANY OF THESE APPLICATIONS AND HAVE ADEQUATE TIME TO DO SO.  THE

                    PROBLEM THAT WE RUN INTO IS WHEN A GREAT PLAN RUNS INTO REALITY, AND THE

                    REALITY IS THAT OFTENTIMES THE REASON THE HOSPITAL IS CLOSING ITS MATERNITY

                    DEPARTMENT OR THEY'RE CLOSING THEIR EMERGENCY ROOM OR THE REASON THE

                    HOSPITAL IS CLOSING ENTIRELY IS BECAUSE IT'S RUN OUT OF MONEY AND IT

                    CANNOT AFFORD TO STAY OPEN.  AND SO IF YOU HAVE A HOSPITAL THAT'S LOSING

                    A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY, SAY, IN ITS MATERNITY WARD BUT COULD

                    SURVIVE OTHERWISE, FORCING THAT HOSPITAL TO CONTINUE TO LOSE MONEY FOR

                    MONTHS AND MONTHS ON END JEOPARDIZES THE EXISTENCE OF THE HEALTH

                    FACILITY ITSELF.  AND THIS IS JUST NOT HYPOTHETICAL.  I'VE LIVED IT, AND I'LL

                    BET MANY OF THE OTHER -- OF MY OTHER COLLEAGUES HAVE ACTUALLY LIVED IT.

                    I HAD A HOSPITAL HAVE TWO -- A HOSPITAL COMPANY THAT HAD TWO HOSPITALS

                    IN MY DISTRICT, AND THEY WERE FORCED TO SHUT ONE OF THE TWO HOSPITALS

                    DOWN OR IT WOULD HAVE BANKRUPTED THE ENTIRE FACILITY.  BOTH HOSPITALS

                    WOULD HAVE BEEN FORCED DOWN.  NOW, WE KNOW WHAT A CRITICAL STAFFING

                    SHORTAGE OUR HOSPITALS ARE FACING.  SO WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS WHEN

                    A HOSPITAL SENDS OUT A PUBLIC NOTICE THAT SAYS, BY THE WAY, WE'RE

                    CLOSING.  IF YOU HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT IT, THINK ABOUT IT FROM THE

                    PERSPECTIVE OF THE NURSE.  NURSES, KNOWING THERE'S A CRITICAL HOUSING --

                    OR A CRITICAL STAFFING SHORTAGE HAVE SEVERAL OPPORTUNITIES TO GO

                    ELSEWHERE, BECAUSE EVERYONE WANTS TO HIRE THEM.  AND SO THEY THEN

                    HAVE TO MAKE THAT DIFFICULT CHOICE, DO I STAY WITH THIS HOSPITAL THAT

                    ALREADY TOLD ME THEY'RE GOING TO FIRE ME IN A MATTER OF MONTHS OR DO I

                                         66



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    LOOK FOR A NEW JOB SO THAT I CAN MAKE SURE MY FAMILY'S FED?  AND SO AS

                    SOON AS THE HOSPITAL ANNOUNCES IT'S CLOSING, IT STARTS SHUTTING STAFF.  AND

                    THINK ABOUT YOUR SUPPLIERS.  I MEAN, THE ONLY WAY A HOSPITAL CAN

                    OPERATE IS IF IT HAS A STEADY SUPPLY OF BANDAGES AND SUTURES AND

                    PRESCRIPTION MEDICATION AND DISINFECTANT AND ALL OF THE SUPPLIES.  SO AS

                    SOON AS YOU TELL YOUR SUPPLIERS THAT YOU'RE FACING BANKRUPTCY AND

                    YOU'RE NOT SURE YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SUPPLY THEM, THEY GO ON

                    COD.  IT'S A GREAT IDEA THAT HOSPITALS GIVE US MONTHS AND MONTHS OF

                    NOTICE AND THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TAKES MONTHS AND MONTHS TO

                    REVIEW IT.  BUT THERE'S NOTHING IN THIS BILL THAT ADDRESSES WHAT HAPPENS

                    WHEN A HOSPITAL RUNS OUT OF MONEY AND CAN'T PAY ITS EMPLOYEES.

                    THERE'S NOTHING IN THIS BILL THAT ADDRESSES THE PROBLEM WHEN A HOSPITAL

                    RUNS OUT OF STAFF AND CAN'T PROVIDE THE LEVEL OF CARE THAT WE, IN THIS

                    LEGISLATURE, ARE DEMANDING WITH MINIMUM STAFFING LEVELS.  THERE'S

                    NOTHING IN THIS LEGISLATION THAT DEALS WITH THE FACT THAT A HOSPITAL THAT'S

                    GOING INTO BANKRUPTCY ISN'T GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET SUPPLIES.

                                 AND SO WHILE I APPRECIATE THE DESIRE TO HAVE AS MUCH

                    NOTICE AS POSSIBLE, THE REALITY IS IF WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT -- ABOUT

                    PROVIDING THIS PROCESS IN A TIMELY MANNER, WE HAVE TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT

                    PROVIDING THE STATE FUNDING THAT ENABLES IT TO HAPPEN.  THERE'S NO

                    MONEY TREE GROWING BEHIND HOSPITALS THAT THEY CAN SHAPE WHILE THE

                    STATE TAKES ITS TIME REVIEWING AN APPLICATION.  SO I APPRECIATE MY

                    COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE.  AND I WOULD SUPPORT HER IN GETTING AN AMENDMENT

                    TO THE STATE BUDGET THAT GUARANTEES THAT OUR DEDICATED NURSING STAFF

                    THAT SHOW THAT LOYALTY AND STAY WITH THE HOSPITAL TO THE BITTER END ARE

                                         67



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    PAID, AND THAT OUR SUPPLIERS WHO CONTINUE TO SUPPLY THOSE HOSPITALS GET

                    PAID.  BUT UNTIL WE GUARANTEE THAT OUR STAFF CAN BE PAID AND THAT THE

                    PATIENTS HAVE THE CARE THAT THEY NEED, JUST ADDING A MULTI-MONTH

                    PROCESS TO A CLOSURE APPROVAL CREATES HORRIFIC PRACTICAL PROBLEMS FOR

                    THE STAFF AND THE PATIENTS WITH NO SOLUTION.

                                 FOR THAT REASON I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION.  THANK

                    YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. MONTESANO.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU.  I -- I WOULD LIKE TO

                    COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL, HAVING FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE WITH

                    HOSPITAL CLOSURES, ESPECIALLY IN MY DISTRICT, A PROPOSED HOSPITAL

                    CLOSURE.  BUT BEING VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE SITUATION OF LONG ISLAND

                    COLLEGE HOSPITAL, WHICH BY THE WAY, WAS RUN BY THE STATE UNIVERSITY

                    OF NEW YORK.  SO -- SO YOU COULD FIGURE WHY.  BUT IT'S A VERY SERIOUS

                    PROBLEM WHEN A HOSPITAL MOVES FOR CLOSURE.  NOW, A COUPLE OF YEARS

                    AGO IN MY DISTRICT WE HAD A COMMUNITY HOSPITAL WHICH IS OWNED AND

                    OPERATED BY A LARGE NETWORK, HOSPITAL NETWORK.  AND BY -- YOU KNOW,

                    EVERYONE KNOWS BASICALLY THAT IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK EVERY HOSPITAL

                    IS A NON-FOR-PROFIT.  SO THEY'RE NOT WORKING FOR A PROFIT.  AND THEY JUST

                    CAME OUT OF THE BLUE AND SAID, WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE GLEN COVE

                                         68



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    HOSPITAL, WHICH EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY USES, ANY ADJOINING

                    COMMUNITY.  AND WHERE THIS HOSPITAL IS LOCATED IS IN THE NORTHERN

                    EASTERN PART OF THE DISTRICT WHERE -- IN NASSAU COUNTY WHERE IF YOU

                    CLOSED THEM AND TOOK AWAY THE EMERGENCY ROOM, THE ADJOINING

                    VILLAGES, TO GET TO THE NEXT HOSPITAL WOULD HAVE A 45-, 50-MINUTE

                    AMBULANCE RIDE IN GOOD WEATHER.  LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT SNOW AND ICE

                    AND EVERYTHING ELSE.  SO WE GOT -- I GOT -- ME AND SEVERAL OTHERS, WE

                    GOT THE COMMUNITY ACTIVATED AND INVOLVED AND WE GOT THE HOSPITAL

                    ADMINISTRATORS, THE BIG PEOPLE THAT OPERATE THE HOSPITAL NOT LOCALLY BUT

                    IN THE -- IN THE BOARD ITSELF, IN FOR A CONVERSATION TO SEE WHAT THEIR

                    PROBLEM WAS.  AND THEY JUST THOUGHT THERE WASN'T ENOUGH BUSINESS FOR

                    THE HOSPITAL AND THEY WANTED TO CLOSE IT.  AND WE EXPLAINED TO THEM

                    WHAT THEIR MORAL OBLIGATION WAS TO THE COMMUNITY TO KEEP THIS HOSPITAL

                    OPEN.  WE NEEDED IT THERE.  A LOT OF PEOPLE DEPENDED ON IT.  ALL OF OUR

                    NURSING HOMES FED INTO THAT HOSPITAL.  IT DID A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF

                    WORK.  THE STATE POURED A LOT OF MONEY INTO THAT FACILITY TO OPEN THE

                    FIRST EBOLA CENTER WHEN WE HAD THAT CRISIS GOING ON.  SO LONG STORY

                    SHORT, WE MANAGED TO GET THAT HOSPITAL TO STAY OPEN.  WE AGREED THAT

                    THEY SHOULD -- THAT THEY COULD CLOSE CERTAIN PARTS, AND THAT WAS THE

                    MATERNITY WARD AND THE PSYCHIATRIC UNIT.  AND THEY REDUCED BEDS BY

                    ABOUT 50.  AND -- AND THERE WAS GOOD REASON WHEN YOU LEARNED ABOUT

                    HOW HOSPITALS OPERATE.  SO INCREMENTALLY, FOR EVERY AMOUNT OF BEDS

                    THAT THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE TO INCREASE THE SOCIAL WORKERS, THE MEDICAL

                    STAFF, THE NURSING STAFF, SOCIAL -- EVERYBODY INCREMENTALLY GETS

                    INCREASED DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF BEDS.  THE PSYCH UNIT ONLY HELD

                                         69



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    20 BEDS.  AND FOR THE THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PATIENTS THAT THEY HANDLED

                    IN THERE, SENIOR CITIZENS, YOU KNOW, GERIATRIC PATIENTS, ADOLESCENTS AND

                    PEDIATRICS, THEY REQUIRED DIFFERENT STAFF, EVERY ONE OF THEM.  SO THAT

                    COULD BE UNDERSTOOD WHY THEY MANAGED -- THEY HAD AN ADJOINING

                    PROPERTY TO SEND THEM TO.  THEY DECIDED TO KEEP THE HOSPITAL OPEN, AND

                    THAT YEAR THEY HAD MADE A $400,000 NET PROFIT, KEEPING THE HOSPITAL

                    OPEN.  THEY DO A PHENOMENAL JOB THERE.  IT'S A REHAB CENTER, EMERGENCY

                    ROOM'S OPEN, ALL THE SURGERIES ARE BEING PERFORMED AND EVERYBODY'S

                    HAPPY.  BECAUSE IT WAS THE INPUT OF THE COMMUNITY.  BECAUSE THERE

                    WAS THE INPUT OF ELECTED OFFICIALS AND OTHER CONCERNED CITIZENS, THEY

                    SAW THE REASON AND KEPT THE PLACE OPEN.  ST. VINCENT'S HOSPITAL IN

                    MANHATTAN, IN THE HEART, RIGHT, OF LOWER MANHATTAN, ONE OF THE BUSIEST

                    PLACES YOU COULD FIND, THEY JUST CLOSED IT WITH NO THOUGHT ABOUT WHERE

                    THEY'RE GOING TO SHOVE ALL THESE PATIENTS.  THEY HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE.

                    THE VOLUME DOESN'T CHANGE.  THERE'S NOT LESS SICKNESS BECAUSE YOU

                    CLOSE A HOSPITAL.  IT HAPPENS.  THE BIG PROBLEM WE'RE SEEING NOW IN

                    NASSAU UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER IN NASSAU COUNTY, SAME PROBLEM.

                    MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR TO BE BEHIND THE

                    EIGHT BALL.  AND THE PROBLEM IS UNIQUE TO EVERY ONE OF THESE HOSPITALS.

                    AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS?  THE MEDICAID SYSTEM IN THIS STATE HOLDS

                    THEM HOSTAGE AND DOES NOT PAY ITS BILLS.  THEY PROVIDE THE SERVICES.

                    THEY PROVIDE THE SERVICES, A LOT OF THESE HOSPITALS ARE HIGH-END USE FOR

                    MEDICAID AND MEDICAID DOES NOT PAY THEM.  IT NICKLES AND DIMES

                    THEM.  IT PENALIZES THEM.  IT CLAWS BACK MONEY.  IT FINDS EVERY REASON IT

                    CAN NOT TO PAY THESE HOSPITALS.  SO HOW DO YOU THINK THEY'RE SUPPOSED

                                         70



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    TO OPERATE?  IT'S NOT FOR THEIR FAILURE OF MANAGEMENT THAT THEY CAN'T

                    FUNCTION, IT'S BECAUSE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES AND MEDICAID TORTURE

                    THEM.  A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO I WAS IN THE APPELLATE DIVISION, SECOND

                    DEPARTMENT, LISTENING TO A CASE BEFORE MINE WHERE A LAWSUIT AGAINST

                    OXFORD HOSPITAL, BY ONE OF THE LARGE HOSPITALS, SUING THEM FOR DELAYED

                    PAYMENTS.  AND THE GUY FROM OXFORD, THE LAWYER REPRESENTING THEM,

                    WAS CHASTISED BY THE COURT FOR SAYING A CLAIM COMES IN TO THE

                    INSURANCE CARRIER, THEY LOOK AT IT.  WHEN THEY FIND THE FIRST MISTAKE ON

                    THE CLAIM FORM, THEY KICK IT BACK AND THEY GET ANOTHER 30 TO 60 DAYS TO

                    PAY THE CLAIM ONCE THE CORRECTION IS MADE.  THEN THEY GO TO LINE

                    NUMBER 2.  FIND ANOTHER MISTAKE AND THEY DO THE SAME THING.  SO

                    INSTEAD OF READING THE WHOLE CLAIM FORM IN ITS ENTIRETY AND BRINGING ALL

                    THE ERRORS TO THE ATTENTION OF THE HOSPITAL AT ONE TIME, THEY DID THEM

                    ONE AT A TIME TO DRAW OUT THE TIME.  IN MOST CASES IT WAS A YEAR-

                    AND-A-HALF BEFORE THEY WERE PAID THE CLAIM.  THEY OWED THIS PARTICULAR

                    HOSPITAL $10 MILLION IN PAYMENTS.  THE APPELLATE DIVISION RULED THAT

                    NOT ONLY WHAT THEY DID WAS WRONG AND THEY HAD TO CORRECT IT, THEY

                    MADE THEM PAY THE $10 MILLION WITH 9 PERCENT INTEREST A YEAR, YOU

                    KNOW, AS A PENALTY, PLUS THE LEGAL FEES.  SO THIS IS THE GAME THAT GOES

                    ON.  INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE A VERY STRONG HAND IN THE OPERATION OF

                    HOSPITALS.  THEY DICTATE THE SERVICES BEING PROVIDED, HOW MUCH WE'RE

                    GOING TO PAY YOU BASED ON THE HOSPITAL NEXT DOOR.  WE HAD A BILL ABOUT

                    IT LAST WEEK ABOUT THE VARIATION IN PRICES.  WHAT DRUG COMPANIES THEY

                    USE.  THEY REGULATE -- THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE THEIR HAND IN THIS,

                    AND MEDICAID IS -- IS MORE THE GUILTY PARTY FOR THIS.  SO ALL THIS BILL, THE

                                         71



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WAY I READ IT, SEES -- SAYS IS THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO CLOSE A HOSPITAL, YOU

                    GOT TO GIVE THE PUBLIC NOTICE, HAVE THE PUBLIC INPUT AND LET THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH GO THROUGH THE DIFFERENT REASONS WHY THE

                    HOSPITAL SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT CLOSE.  COULD WE DOWNSIZE IT A LITTLE BIT?

                    COULD WE MODIFY ITS OPERATIONS?  COULD WE ELIMINATE -- MAYBE YOU

                    DON'T NEED A MATERNITY UNIT.  THEY HAPPEN TO BE VERY EXPENSIVE TO

                    OPERATE, AND IT'S CHEAPER WHEN YOU CAN CONSOLIDATE THEM IN ONE BIGGER

                    HOSPITAL.  SO THAT WORKS THAT WAY.  BUT FOR GENERAL HEALTHCARE, GENERAL

                    MEDICINE, SURGERY, GERIATRIC CARE, THESE PLACES ARE THE MOST ESSENTIAL IN

                    THE COMMUNITY.  THIS PARTICULAR HOSPITAL THAT'S THE SUBJECT MATTER OF

                    THIS BILL WAS IN THE HEART OF DOWNTOWN BROOKLYN.  IT SERVED A VERY,

                    VERY, VERY LARGE POPULATION.  AND AS THE SPONSOR NOTED ABOUT THE

                    CLOSURE OF HOSPITALS IN THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS IN THIS STATE, I WILL TELL

                    YOU IN THE '70S I WAS AN EMERGENCY -- EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN

                    FOR THE NEW YORK CITY EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE, AND WE HAD

                    HOSPITALS ALL OVER THE PLACE - MANY OF THEM SMALL, SOME LARGE - AND

                    EVERY ONE OF THEM IS GONE TODAY.  FROM MANHATTAN TO BROOKLYN TO

                    HARLEM.  THE OLD SYDENHAM HOSPITAL.  ALL THOSE PLACES ARE GONE FOR

                    THE SIMPLE REASON IS THEY WERE NOT PROPERLY SUPPORTED BY MEDICAID OR

                    BY THE INSURANCE COMPANIES.  NOT FOR A LACK OF PATIENTS.  THEY HAD

                    PLENTY OF PATIENTS TO TAKE CARE OF.  THE WAIT NOW IN THE HOSPITAL

                    EMERGENCY ROOMS IS PHENOMENAL DOWN ON LONG ISLAND.  YOU GO TO

                    COHEN CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL, WHICH IS -- SITS ON THE NASSAU-QUEENS

                    BORDERLINE, AT ANY GIVEN TIME - THIS IS A PEDIATRIC SPECIALITY HOSPITAL -

                    YOU'VE GOT FOUR TO FIVE HOURS WAIT IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM ALONE, AND

                                         72



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THEN TRY AND GET A BED IF YOU'RE BEING ADMITTED.  SO IT'S NOT BECAUSE WE

                    HAVE A LACK OF PATIENTS OR THE HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATORS ARE NOT PROPERLY

                    RUNNING THEIR HOSPITALS.  AND I KNOW ABOUT THE NURSES AND ABOUT THE

                    MEDICAL TECHNICIANS, AND THEY DO A PHENOMENAL JOB, AND THEY'RE

                    GETTING PAID.  AND WE SHOULD KEEP THESE HOSPITALS OPEN BECAUSE

                    THEY'RE DEPENDENT ON THEIR JOBS.  ONE OF THE BIGGEST OBLIGATIONS WE

                    HAVE AS LEGISLATORS IN THIS STATE IS THE WELFARE OF OUR PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY

                    IN THE HEALTHCARE SECTOR.  AND THAT'S WHERE WE FALL DOWN ON THE JOB.

                    OUR POPULATION HAS INCREASED BY THE MILLIONS, RIGHT, AND MANY OF THE

                    PEOPLE HAVE MEDICAL ISSUES AND PROBLEMS.  THERE'S MENTAL ILLNESS,

                    THERE -- THERE'S ALL KIND OF MEDICAL PROBLEMS GOING ON WITH PEOPLE, AND

                    YET WE DON'T LOOK TO TAKE CARE OF THEM AND PROVIDE THAT LEVEL OF CARE.

                                 SO FOR THAT PARTICULAR REASON I WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION, AND I THANK THE -- THE SPONSOR FOR IT.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. SPEAKER -- MADAM SPEAKER.  I'M SORRY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    MONTESANO.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON 2251-A.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO

                    WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                         73



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THIS

                    WILL BE A REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE GENERALLY OPPOSED.  I THINK WE HAD

                    40 NEGATIVE VOTES LAST TIME THIS CAME UP, AND THE BILL HASN'T BEEN

                    CHANGED SO I ANTICIPATE WE'LL HAVE ABOUT 40 NEGATIVE VOTES AGAIN.  BUT

                    CERTAINLY, THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT CAN AND SHOULD VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT ON

                    THE FLOOR OR NOTIFY THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MS. SOLAGES.

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THE

                    MAJORITY MEMBERS WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  IF THERE ARE ANY

                    EXCEPTIONS WE ASK THAT YOU REACH OUT TO THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE

                    SO THAT WE CAN REPORT YOU AS A NEGATIVE AND ANNOUNCE YOUR NAME

                    ACCORDINGLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  AS ONE

                    OF MY COLLEAGUES MENTIONED A HOSPITAL IN MY DISTRICT, I WOULD JUST LIKE

                    TO TELL THE BODY THAT THERE WAS A THREAT OF A MID-YEAR CUT TO MEDICAID

                    RATES.  THAT WAS PUSHED BACK.  I GOT A LETTER IN DECEMBER THANKING ME

                    FOR SAVING THE HOSPITALS THE MONEY THAT THEY WERE EXPECTING, AND THEY

                    LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH ME ON THE UPCOMING BUDGET.  THAT WAS

                    IN DECEMBER.  IN APRIL, THE HOSPITAL WAS CLOSED.  THERE WASN'T AN

                    OPPORTUNITY FOR THE COMMUNITY -- WE DID EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY COULD

                    BUT WE WERE GIVEN NO TIME.  AND MY COLLEAGUE WAS RIGHT.  INSURANCE

                                         74



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    COMPANIES WERE PAYING THAT HOSPITAL, THAT WAS NOT A HUGE HOSPITAL,

                    MUCH LESS THAN IT PAID OTHER HOSPITALS FOR THE SAME SERVICES.  THEY HAD

                    MORE MEDICAID, THEY WERE A TRAUMA ONE CENTER.  IT'S WHERE THEY

                    BROUGHT PEOPLE, EMERGENCY RESPONDERS.  IT WAS A TERRIBLE BLOW.  IT

                    UNDERMINED A LOT OF SMALL BUSINESSES IN THE COMMUNITY THAT SERVED THE

                    PEOPLE WHO WORKED AT THE HOSPITAL, SANDWICH SHOPS AND OTHER

                    BUSINESSES.  IT WAS A HUGE BLOW TO THE COMMUNITY.  WE NEEDED AND

                    SHOULD HAVE HAD MORE TIME TO WORK OUT WHAT WE COULD DO TO SAVE A

                    HOSPITAL THAT HAD BEEN THERE FOR 150 YEARS, THAT HAD GOTTEN SURVIVORS

                    FROM THE TITANIC BROUGHT TO THEM, AND THAT HOSPITAL WENT UNDER.  WE

                    NEEDED THE TIME.

                                 I SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION AND I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

                    BRINGING IT FORWARD, AND I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  MS. GLICK IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. SIMON:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I WANT TO

                    THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR THEIR SUPPORT OF THIS BILL.  AS WE DISCUSSED,

                    THIS IS THE OUTGROWTH OF THE CLOSURE OF LONG ISLAND COLLEGE HOSPITAL,

                    WHICH WAS A SIMILAR HOSPITAL TO ST. VINCENT'S.  IT REALLY WAS PART OF THE

                    FABRIC OF THE COMMUNITY.  IT IS WHERE -- YOU KNOW, IT WAS OPENED IN

                    1857.  IT WAS THE FIRST TEACHING HOSPITAL IN THE UNITED STATES.  IT PILOTED

                    THE RESIDENCY PROGRAMS THAT ARE STILL IN EFFECT TODAY.  SO IT'S BEEN A REAL

                    LEADER IN THE COMMUNITY.  AND I WILL SAY THAT IN PART OF THE IMPACT

                                         75



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WHICH WE WEREN'T ABLE TO ASSESS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ADEQUATE

                    INFORMATION OR ADEQUATE TIME, ALTHOUGH WE TRIED VERY HARD, AND THIS

                    DID GO TO -- TO LITIGATION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS CLEAR IS THAT THE

                    COURT FOUND THAT, IN FACT, THERE WASN'T A PROCESS BY WHICH NEW YORK

                    STATE HAD TO PROVIDE PEOPLE WITH THE INFORMATION THEY NEEDED.  AND

                    INDEED, UNFORTUNATELY, PEOPLE DIED BECAUSE AMBULANCES COULD NOT

                    UNDERSTAND WHERE THE ADDRESSES WERE IN THE LOCAL PUBLIC HOUSING

                    BECAUSE THOSE ADDRESSES DON'T -- YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALL INWARD LOOKING

                    TO A COURTYARD.  AND SO THE FAMILIARITY WITH THE AREA WAS REALLY CRITICAL

                    TO THE PROVISION OF EMERGENCY CARE, AND IT WAS REALLY A VERY DIFFICULT

                    SITUATION FOR OUR COMMUNITY.  WE HAVE REALLY LOST A VALUABLE PART OF

                    OUR COMMUNITY AND A VALUABLE ASPECT OF OUR HEALTHCARE.  AND WE COULD

                    NOT GO WRONG IF WE HAD BETTER INFORMATION.  WITH INFORMATION WE

                    WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT CONTINUUM, FOR EXAMPLE,

                    WHICH RETAINED THE CONTRACT FOR THE BILLING (INAUDIBLE) AFTER SUNY

                    CAME IN WASN'T ACTUALLY SENDING BILLS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SEND

                    BILLS BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO CLOSE THE HOSPITAL.  AND THAT WAS THEIR

                    MAIN GOAL, WAS CLOSURE OF THE HOSPITAL.  IT WAS THE COMMUNITY'S MAIN

                    GOAL TO KEEP HEALTHCARE IN OUR COMMUNITY FOR THE PEOPLE IN OUR

                    COMMUNITY.  THIS LEGISLATION WOULD ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.  AND I WILL

                    BE CASTING MY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  MS. SIMON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                         76



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    PLEASE RECORD MY COLLEAGUE MR. SCHMITT IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 20, CALENDAR NO. 174, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05499, CALENDAR NO.

                    174, GLICK, SIMON, GOTTFRIED, GRIFFIN, L. ROSENTHAL, EPSTEIN, OTIS,

                    ROZIC, LUPARDO.  AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO

                    CONDUCT A STUDY AND ISSUE A REPORT EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND

                    RESOURCE NEEDS FACING PREGNANT WOMEN IN NEW YORK AND THE IMPACT OF

                    LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS ON THE ABILITY OF WOMEN TO OBTAIN

                    ACCURATE, NON-COERCIVE HEALTH CARE INFORMATION AND TIMELY ACCESS TO A

                    COMPREHENSIVE RANGE OF REPRODUCTIVE AND SEXUAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  AN EXPLANATION HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED, MS. GLICK.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MS. SPEAKER.  THE BILL

                    WOULD AUTHORIZE THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A STUDY AND

                    ISSUE A REPORT EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND RESOURCES NEEDED FACING

                    PREGNANT WOMEN IN NEW YORK STATE, AND THE IMPACT OF LIMITED SERVICE

                    PREGNANCY CENTERS ON THE ABILITY OF WOMEN TO OBTAIN ACCURATE HEALTH

                    INFORMATION IN A TIMELY FASHION AND TO ACCESS A COMPREHENSIVE RANGE

                    OF REPRODUCTIVE AND SEXUAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES.  IT -- THE BILL ALSO

                    IDENTIFIES OR ESTABLISHES A DEFINITION OF THESE LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY

                                         77



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    CENTERS AS PRIMARILY OFFERING SERVICES TO CLIENTS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT

                    BE PREGNANT, IS NOT A HEALTH -- A STATE HEALTH LICENSED FACILITY, AND IS

                    NOT PROVIDING SERVICES UNDER THE DIRECTION OF A LICENSED HEALTH CARE

                    PROVIDER AND FAILS TO PROVIDE OR REFER CLIENTS TO OTHER PLACES WHERE THEY

                    COULD RECEIVE THE FULL RANGE OF COMPREHENSIVE REPRODUCTIVE AND SEXUAL

                    HEALTH CARE SERVICES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  MS. BYRNES.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  WOULD THE -- HELLO, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. GLICK:  CERTAINLY.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  THANK YOU.  SO TALKING AGAIN, TWICE

                    IN TWO WEEKS IS ALL GOOD.  I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU THOUGH

                    AND I'D LIKE TO START OUT VERY SIMPLY, AS I DID WITH THE LAST BILL, WITH

                    SOME DEFINITIONAL ISSUES.  NOW, OBVIOUSLY THIS BILL WOULD AUTHORIZE THE

                    COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A STUDY AND ISSUE A REPORT

                    EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND RESOURCE NEEDS FACING PREGNANT

                    WOMEN AND ANALYZE IMPACT OF LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS,

                    WHICH APPEAR TO BE DEFINED AS A FACILITY OR ENTITY, INCLUDING A MOBILE

                    FACILITY, THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF WHICH IS TO PROVIDE SERVICES TO CLIENTS

                    WHO ARE OR MAY BE PREGNANT.  MY QUESTION IS WHAT CONSTITUTES AN

                    ENTITY?  HOW BROAD IS THIS DEFINITION SO THAT DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS

                    THAT PROVIDE SERVICES OF ANY TYPE WOULD KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THEY

                    WOULD FALL WITHIN IT?  WHAT IS AN ENTITY?

                                         78



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I THINK I INDICATED THE DEFINITION

                    OF WHAT WOULD FALL UNDER THIS WHEN I SAID THAT A FACILITY OR A LOCATION OR

                    AN ENTITY OR A CENTER THAT MEETS THIS DEFINITION WHICH WOULD PRIMARILY

                    PROVIDE SERVICES TO CLIENTS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE PREGNANT BUT IS NOT

                    A STATE LICENSED HEALTH CARE FACILITY, OR IS NOT PROVIDING SERVICES UNDER

                    THE DIRECTION OF A LICENSED REPRODUCT -- A LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER

                    AND FAILS TO PROVIDE OR REFER FOR THE FULL RANGE OF COMPREHENSIVE

                    REPRODUCTIVE SEXUAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  ALL RIGHT.  SO WOULD A CHURCH

                    CONSTITUTE AN ENTITY IF CHURCHES AND PASTORS NORMALLY ARE CHARGED WITH

                    THE ROLE OF COUNSELING INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE THEIR PARISHIONERS IN ALL

                    ASPECTS OF LIFE, INCLUDING THOSE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE PREGNANT.  SO

                    ARE WE INCLUDING A CHURCH AS AN ENTITY WHICH WOULD FALL POTENTIALLY

                    WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF A LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTER?

                                 MS. GLICK:  I WOULD NOT BELIEVE SO.  CERTAINLY NOT

                    THE INTENTION OF THE LEGISLATION.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  NOW, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE PURPOSE

                    OF YOUR BILL IS TO ENSURE THAT PREGNANT WOMEN HAVE ACCESS TO

                    INFORMATION ON ALL OF THE LEGAL OPTIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO THEM,

                    BASICALLY COMPREHENSIVE PRENATAL CARE?

                                 MS. GLICK:  YES.  WELL, LOOK, WHAT IT -- THE PURPOSE

                    OF THE BILL IS TO ENSURE THAT SOMEBODY WHO GOES TO A LIMITED PREGNANCY

                    SERVICE CENTER WHETHER THEY ARE -- FIND THAT THEY'RE PREGNANT AND

                    CHOOSE TO CARRY THE PREGNANCY FORWARD, THEY SHOULD BE GOING TO FOR

                    PRENATAL CARE.

                                         79



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MS. BYRNES:  ALL RIGHT, BUT YOU --

                                 MS. GLICK:  EXCUSE ME, LET ME FINISH MY SENTENCE

                    IF YOU WOULD.  AND THEY SHOULD BE SEEING SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A

                    LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR THAT PRENATAL CARE.  OR IF THEY FIND

                    THAT THEY'RE PREGNANT AND WANT TO TERMINATE THE PREGNANCY, THEY SHOULD

                    LIKEWISE BE SEEING A LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  I UNDERSTAND AND -- AND NO

                    DISRESPECT, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO DO YOUR BEST TO EAT UP ALL MY TIME HERE.

                    BUT DON'T YOU THINK THAT WOMEN SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO INFORMATION ON

                    ALL OTHER LEGAL OPTIONS?  YES OR NO, MA'AM.

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I GET TO -- YOU GET TO ASK THE

                    QUESTION, I GET TO ANSWER IT.  SO -- AND THIS IS A DISCUSSION NOT A

                    CROSS-EXAMINATION.  SO WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WHO

                    ARE PREGNANT SHOULD RECEIVE INFORMATION FROM A LICENSED HEALTH CARE

                    PROVIDER.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  ALL RIGHT.  NOW, IF THE REPORT

                    ULTIMATELY IS GOING TO INDICATE UNMET HEALTH AND RESOURCE NEEDS, IF

                    ULTIMATELY YOU FIND OUT THAT THIS REPORT IS -- DEMONSTRATES THAT SOME OF

                    THE UNMET HEALTH AND RESOURCES NEEDS AVAILABLE TO PREGNANT WOMEN ARE

                    INFORMATION ABOUT SERVICES AND PROGRAMS THAT WOULD ASSIST A PREGNANT

                    WOMAN IN BRINGING A PREGNANCY TO A LIVE BIRTH OR TO AN ADOPTION,

                    WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO PROMOTE LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS IF

                    THEY ACHIEVED THIS GOAL WHICH THE REPORT FINDS IS, IN FACT, AN UNMET

                    HEALTH OR RESOURCE NEED?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I THINK THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF

                                         80



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    PLACES THAT WOMEN CAN RECEIVE DISCUSSION ABOUT -- THERE ARE CERTAINLY

                    MANY ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN ADOPTION SERVICES.  I THINK IF

                    YOU GO TO THE YELLOW PAGES, ALTHOUGH I THINK YOU DO THAT NOW ONLINE,

                    YOU WILL SEE A LISTING OF ADOPTION SERVICES IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU

                    ARE INTERESTED IN.  BUT I THINK THAT IF YOU ARE PREGNANT, YOU SHOULD BE

                    SEEING, FOR MEDICALLY LEGITIMATE INFORMATION, A LICENSED HEALTH CARE

                    PROVIDER.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  OKAY.  LET'S TALK ABOUT THE TASK FORCE

                    FOR A MOMENT.  THE TASK FORCE WILL HAVE NINE MEMBERS, IT LOOKS LIKE ALL

                    NINE WILL BE APPOINTED BY MEMBERS OF THE MAJORITY EITHER IN THE

                    ASSEMBLY, THE SENATE, OR BY THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.  IT LOOKS LIKE ONE

                    OF THOSE MEMBERS WILL BE A PHYSICIAN WHO PRACTICES ABORTION.  ONE

                    WILL HAVE SOMEBODY WHO HAS EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE IN FREE SPEECH

                    RIGHTS.  NO -- THERE IS NO REPRESENTATION ON THIS BOARD FROM THE

                    MINORITY IN EITHER THE ASSEMBLY OR THE SENATE; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. GLICK:  CURRENTLY AS IT IS YES, BUT I'M CERTAINLY,

                    YOU KNOW, WILLING TO DISCUSS WITH LEADERSHIP IF THERE SHOULD BE -- AND

                    WITH THE EXECUTIVE IF THAT'S THE OBSTACLE TO GETTING THE BILL PASSED,

                    MAKING THAT CHANGE.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  NOW, I FIND THE VERBIAGE IN THE BILL

                    SOMEWHAT INTERESTING.  WHEN IT REFERS TO THE -- A ABORTION PROVIDER A

                    DOCTOR WHO HAS PRACTICED ABORTIONS AS TO BEING -- AS WELL AS BIRTHS, AS

                    TO BEING ONE OF THE MEMBERS, AND IT REFERS SPECIFICALLY TO THE FACT THAT

                    THE INDIVIDUAL PRACTICES, THAT'S THE OPERATIVE WORD.  BUT THEN THE

                    VERBIAGE WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY WHO IS INVOLVED IN FREE SPEECH

                                         81



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THAT WE ALL CARE SO MUCH ABOUT, IN FREE SPEECH IT ONLY MERELY REFERS TO

                    AN EXPERIENCE OR AN EXPERTISE IN FREE SPEECH, BUT NO REQUIREMENT THAT

                    THE PERSON HAS TO PRACTICE FREE SPEECH OR BE A MEMBER OF AN

                    ORGANIZATION THAT IS DEVOTED TO MAKING SURE THERE'S FREE SPEECH IN ALL

                    OPTIONS ON THIS ISSUE.  WHY WAS THAT PARTICULAR VERBIAGE, CLEARLY IT WAS

                    CHOSEN ON PURPOSE, BUT WHY WAS THAT DONE SO THAT SOMEONE WHO

                    PRACTICES ABORTION IS ON AND ONLY SOMEBODY WHO MERELY EXPERIENCES

                    FREE SPEECH IS ON?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL --

                                 MS. BYRNES:  IT SEEMS A LITTLE UNFAIR.

                                 MS. GLICK:  IF YOU WILL GO TO PAGE 3, LINE 9, IT SAYS A

                    MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF OBSTETRICIANS AND GYNECOLOGISTS

                    WHOSE PRACTICE INCLUDES THE PROVISION OF ALL PREGNANCY RELATED CARE,

                    INCLUDING BIRTH AND TERMINATION OF A PREGNANCY --

                                 MS. BYRNES:  RIGHT.  INCLUSIVE.  AND --

                                 MS. GLICK:  -- AND AN INDIVIDUAL WITH PROFESSIONAL

                    EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELDS OF REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, HEALTH, AND JUSTICE.

                    AND THEN, A MEMBER WITH PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE IN

                    FIRST AMENDMENT AND FREE SPEECH RIGHTS.  NOW, PROFESSIONAL

                    EXPERIENCE IN THAT WAY I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE SOMEONE THAT

                    PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE PROBABLY MIGHT BE AN ATTORNEY WHO HAS DONE

                    CASES AROUND FREE SPEECH.  IT SAYS PROFESSIONAL.  IT DOESN'T JUST SAY

                    SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVES IN FREE SPEECH; IT SAYS SOMEONE WITH

                    PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  IS THERE -- UNDER ANY OF YOUR

                                         82



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    DEFINITIONS, UNDER ALL OF THE POTENTIAL MEMBERS OF THIS TASK FORCE,

                    ANYTHING THAT WOULD INCLUDE, BECAUSE FREE SPEECH, I CAN HAVE FREE

                    SPEECH AND BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH ABOUT EVERY ISSUE UNDER THE SUN, IT

                    DOESN'T MEAN IT'S SOMETHING I BELIEVE IN AND THAT I ADVOCATE FOR.  HOW

                    DO WE KNOW AS MEMBERS OF THE MINORITY THAT THERE'LL BE ANY MEMBER

                    OF THIS TASK FORCE WHO IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM HAS A PRO-LIFE PRO

                    -ADVOCACY PERSPECTIVE?  OR IS IT DESIGNED NOT TO HAVE ONE?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, IT CERTAINLY TALKS ABOUT HAVING

                    SOMEBODY WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE COLLEGE OF OBSTETRICIANS AND

                    GYNECOLOGISTS, IT DOESN'T SAY THEY HAVE TO HAVE -- YOU -- YOU INDICATED

                    THAT THEY HAD AND LIMITED IT TO ABORTION PROVISION, BUT THE BILL DOESN'T

                    SAY THAT.  THE BILL SAYS AN OBSTETRICIAN/GYNECOLOGIST WHO IS FAMILIAR IN

                    ALL ASPECTS OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH.  SO THAT INCLUDES PRENATAL CARE,

                    BIRTH, WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY STATED IN THE LEGISLATION, AS WELL AS

                    TERMINATION.  SO IT'S NOT IN THAT REGARD TILTED, IF YOU WILL, AND FREE

                    SPEECH, IT COULD BE AN ATTORNEY.  AND WE KNOW THAT ATTORNEYS CAN

                    ALWAYS ARGUE AT LEAST TWO SIDES OF AN ARGUMENT, IF NOT FIVE, AND SO

                    REGARDLESS OF -- IT DOESN'T SAY SOME -- ANYBODY, IT HAS TO BE SOMEONE

                    WHO IS "PRO-ABORTION" OR "ANTI-ABORTION," IT SAYS SOMEONE WHO IS A

                    GYNECOLOGIST/OBSTETRICIAN WHO IS FAMILIAR WITH ALL ASPECTS OF --

                                 MS. BYRNES:  I BELIEVE IT SAYS, AND CORRECT ME IF

                    I'M WRONG, YOU OBVIOUSLY DRAFTED THE BILL, BUT IT SAYS AN OBSTETRICIAN OR

                    GYNECOLOGIST WHO PRACTICES PREGNANCY RELATED CARE, INCLUDING BIRTH AND

                    TERMINATION.

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL --

                                         83



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MS. BYRNES:  IT'S AN INCLUSIVE TERM NOT AN

                    EXCLUSIVE TERM.  SO SOMEBODY IS DEFINITE WHO IS GOING TO FIT THAT

                    CATEGORY IS GOING TO HAVE ALSO COMMITTED ABORTIONS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, WHO IS -- WHOSE PRACTICE IS BROAD

                    AND I WOULD THINK THAT THERE ARE MANY OB/GYNS WHO HAVE DELIVERED

                    BABIES AS WELL AS TERMINATED PREGNANCIES FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS.

                    SOMETIMES PEOPLE HAVE AN ABORTION BECAUSE IT IS TO SAVE THE LIFE OR

                    HEALTH OF THE MOTHER.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  COUPLE OF OTHER QUESTIONS.  THANK

                    YOU.  (INAUDIBLE) IS OBVIOUSLY A KEY PROVISION OF THIS BILL IS

                    EMPOWERING THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO REQUEST AND RECEIVE DATA

                    AND INFORMATION FROM LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS ON AN

                    EXTENSIVE LIST OF ISSUES AND THE LIST OF INFORMATION.  IT'S MORE THAN

                    EXTENSIVE.  IT IS AN OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THAT'S GOING

                    TO BE REQUESTED.  SINCE MOST OF THESE PLACES, AT LEAST ANY THAT I'VE EVER

                    HEARD OF AND MAYBE YOU'RE AWARE OF OTHERS, NORMALLY TALK TO

                    INDIVIDUALS, WOMEN WHO ARE PREGNANT ABOUT WHAT THEIR OPTIONS ARE AS

                    FAR AS SERVICES THAT MAY BE AVAILABLE TO THEM, CARRYING ON THE

                    PREGNANCY, GOVERNMENT, PRIVATE RESOURCES THAT THEY MAY BE ABLE TO RELY

                    ON IF THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT FINANCES AND HOW TO DO IT IF THEY'RE AN

                    UNWED MOM.  THESE ARE THE THINGS THEY TALK ABOUT AND WORK TOWARDS;

                    ADOPTION IS AN OPTION.  I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT IS SO FRIGHTENING ABOUT

                    THAT DISCUSSION THAT YOU, IN ESSENCE, WANT TO FLOOD THEM WITH

                    PAPERWORK TO A POINT WHERE YOU SHUT THEM DOWN?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, THE -- THE PURPOSE OF THE BILL IS TO

                                         84



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    ACTUAL -- WE'VE HAD A GREAT DEAL OF ANECDOTAL INFORMATION, ANECDOTAL

                    INFORMATION FROM YOUNG WOMEN AND NOT SO YOUNG WHO INDICATED THAT

                    THEY SAW THAT THERE WAS -- THEY DIDN'T HAVE HEALTH CARE INSURANCE, THEY

                    THOUGHT THEY MIGHT BE PREGNANT, THEY WEREN'T SURE, AND THEY SAW

                    SOMETHING THAT SAID FREE PREGNANCY TEST AND SO THEY WENT IN AND INDEED

                    THE TEST WAS FREE --

                                 MS. BYRNES:  MA'AM, I'M NOT GOING TO -- I'M JUST

                    GOING TO CUT YOU SHORT BECAUSE I WANT TO BE HEARD ON THE BILL AND I ONLY

                    HAVE 20 SECONDS I THINK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  TWO MINUTES?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  TWENTY SECONDS.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  OKAY.  GO AHEAD.  I APOLOGIZE.  I

                    DIDN'T WANT TO RUN MYSELF OUT OF TIME.

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, IN ANY EVENT, SO WE -- WE GOT THIS

                    INFORMATION, ANECDOTAL INFORMATION THAT SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE

                    LED TO GO INTO SOMEPLACE AND BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT SINCE THEY

                    WERE OFFERING A TEST, IT WAS --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  MS. BYRNES FOR A

                    SECOND 15.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  MAY I HAVE ANOTHER 15 MINUTES?

                    THANK YOU.

                                 MS. GLICK:  SO THEY THOUGHT THAT THE TEST INDICATED

                    THAT THEY WERE GOING SOMEPLACE WHERE SOMEBODY COULD PROVIDE SOME

                    ADDITIONAL SERVICE, SO...

                                         85



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MS. BYRNES:  WERE THEY NOT PROVIDED WITH

                    SERVICE?

                                 MS. GLICK:  THEY -- THEY WERE PROVIDED WITH A FREE

                    TEST FOR SURE, BUT WHEN THEY WANTED TO FIND OUT ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THAT

                    WAS MEDICAL IN NATURE, THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO GET THAT INFORMATION AND

                    THEY FELT FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, A LITTLE SNOOKERED.  SO WE'VE HEARD

                    THIS OVER TIME AND WE SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S ANECDOTAL.  WHAT WE REALLY

                    NEED IS TO HAVE ACTUAL INFORMATION.  SO THAT'S WHY THERE'S THIS BILL.  I

                    HAVE A DIFFERENT BILL THAT WOULD SAY, FINE, OPERATE HOWEVER YOU WANT,

                    BUT THE FIRST TIME SOMEBODY CALLS YOU, YOU HAVE TO TELL THEM THAT YOU'RE

                    NOT A MEDICAL FACILITY AND THEN IT'S UP TO THEM WHETHER THEY WANT TO GO

                    OR NOT.  THAT'S A DIFFERENT BILL, BUT THIS BILL IS SIMPLY ABOUT TRYING TO CUT

                    THROUGH THE ANECDOTAL INFORMATION THAT WE'VE HAD AND HAVE ACTUAL

                    INFORMATION.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  ALL RIGHT.  AND YOU INDICATED EARLIER

                    THAT YOUR PRIMARY -- YOU DIDN'T SAY IT WAS YOUR PRIMARY, EXCUSE ME, BUT

                    THAT A MAJOR PUSH IN YOUR MIND ON ANY OF THESE BILLS IS TO MAKE SURE

                    THAT PREGNANT WOMEN TALK TO ACTUAL DOCTORS, HEALTH CARE WORKERS AS

                    OPPOSED TO PEOPLE WHO MAY BE COUNSELORS; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE

                    HEALTH CARE PROVISION DO, IN FACT, COUNSEL PEOPLE ON THEIR OPTIONS AND I

                    DON'T SEE THAT AS MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  ALL RIGHT.  YOU -- I THOUGHT EARLIER

                    YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT YOU WANTED TO SEE PEOPLE GO TO -- WOMEN GO

                    TO HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS RATHER THAN THE -- THE LIMITED SERVICE

                                         86



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    PREGNANCY CENTERS --

                                 MS. GLICK:  I DID SAY THAT BECAUSE PREGNANCY CAN BE

                    SOMEWHAT TIME-SENSITIVE, SO IF YOU ARE ACTUALLY SOME NUMBER OF

                    MONTHS -- YOU GET A PREGNANCY TEST, YOU REALLY DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW

                    HOW PREGNANT YOU ARE.  SO YOU SHOULD GO TO A -- A --

                                 MS. BYRNES:  NO, AND I'M GOING TO GUESS MOST

                    PEOPLE, AT LEAST WOMEN IN THIS ROOM AND WHO ARE WATCHING VIA ZOOM

                    HAVE EITHER TALKED TO THEIR MOTHERS, THEIR GRANDMOTHERS, THEIR PASTORS,

                    THEIR FRIENDS.  WE ALL REACH OUT ON ANY NUMBER OF ISSUES TO PEOPLE

                    AROUND US --

                                 MS. GLICK:  AND THIS DOESN'T PROHIBIT IT --

                                 MS. BYRNES:  -- IN ORDER TO GET GUIDANCE.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THIS DOESN'T PROHIBIT THAT.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  I UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU'RE TRYING TO

                    PROHIBIT PEOPLE FROM DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING SOMEBODY'S FRIEND

                    OR PASTOR WOULD DO --

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO, I'M NOT.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  -- BY CALL -- LABELING THEM IF THEY

                    HAVE A -- A SPECIFIC STOREFRONT AS A LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTER

                    AND YOU'RE TRYING TO LIMIT THEM FROM DOING THE SAME THING THAT THE

                    CONVERSATION YOU COULD HAVE WITH YOUR MOM, AND THAT DOESN'T SEEM

                    RIGHT.

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, WE'RE NOT --

                                 MS. BYRNES:  MANY ANY OF US REACH OUT TO OTHER

                    PEOPLE, OUR SPOUSES --

                                         87



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MS. GLICK:  THIS ISN'T --

                                 MS. BYRNES:  -- YOU KNOW, TO TALK ABOUT THINGS.

                    ALL RIGHT.  MY APOLOGIES.  GO AHEAD.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THIS BILL DOESN'T LIMIT ANYTHING.  THE

                    BILL IS A STUDY, NUMBER ONE.  NUMBER TWO, IF SOMEONE IS PREGNANT AND

                    -- AND AFTER A CONVERSATION WITH A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL FIGURES OUT THAT

                    THEY'RE ACTUALLY QUITE A BIT ALONG, THEY SHOULD BE GETTING PRENATAL CARE

                    AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT SO THAT THEY HAVE PROPER

                    NUTRITION AND THAT THE SUBSEQUENT PREGNANCY IS A HEALTHY ONE, ET CETERA.

                    SO I -- YES, I BELIEVE PEOPLE WHO ARE PREGNANT SHOULD, A, KNOW THEIR

                    OPTIONS BUT ALSO, B, BE HAVING THAT CONVERSATION WITH A HEALTH CARE

                    PROVIDER, NOT LIMITING THEM TO NOT TALKING TO THEIR PASTOR, NOT LIMITING

                    THEM TO TALK TO, YOU KNOW, THEIR GIRLFRIENDS OR, YOU KNOW, AN OLDER

                    SIBLING, BUT THIS IS JUST A STUDY BILL.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  IT'S A STUDY, BUT IT COMES WITH SUCH

                    ENORMOUS COST TO LIMITED -- LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS THAT IN

                    ESSENCE YOU COULD POTENTIALLY PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS JUST BY THE

                    SHEER VOLUME OF INFORMATION YOU'RE SEEKING; IS THAT YOUR GOAL?

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  ON THE BILL.  THANK --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS BILL DOES PLACE AN ONEROUS

                    BURDEN ON LAWFUL ORGANIZATIONS PURELY TO TARGET THEM BECAUSE

                                         88



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    INDIVIDUALS IN THIS CHAMBER DISAGREE WITH THEIR PHILOSOPHY AND THEIR

                    BELIEF IN THE SANCTITY OF LIFE AND THEIR PRO-LIFE ADVOCACY.  I BELIEVE IT'S

                    THE INTENTION OF THIS BILL TO INTIMIDATE, SILENCE, AND TO SHUT DOWN

                    OPPOSING POINTS OF VIEW AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE A DIFFERENT --

                    AGAIN, A DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY AND A DIFFERENT DESIRE FOR HOW PREGNANT

                    WOMEN SHOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF IN ORDER TO, IF THEY WANT, BRING THEM TO

                    A NICE LIVE HEALTHY BIRTH.

                                 THE ONLY THING THAT THIS BILL WILL DO IS TO STOP A LAWFUL

                    ORGANIZATION FROM PROVIDING PEOPLE WITH ALL THE INFORMATION THEY NEED.

                    I WOULD BE HARD-PRESSED TO FIND MANY WOMEN IN OUR STATE WHO DON'T

                    KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO AN ABORTION.  THIS WILL ALLOW THEM TO

                    KNOW THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS AND OTHER PEOPLE THAT CARE AND CAN GET

                    THEM THE SERVICES THEY NEED IF THEY WISH TO BRING A BABY TO A LIVE BIRTH.

                    THIS BILL WILL SIMPLY HURT THE OPTIONS OF THE WOMEN IN OUR STATE AND AS

                    A RESULT, I'M COMPELLED TO VOTE NO.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  I'M VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS.  FULL

                    TERM ABORTION DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ENOUGH FOR NEW YORK STATE, KILLING A

                    BABY AT NINE MONTHS AT A FULL TERM PREGNANCY WASN'T ENOUGH.  NOW WE

                    HAVE TO GO AFTER RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS, AVERAGE PEOPLE, PROFESSIONALS

                    WHO WANT TO COUNSEL WOMEN ON WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR

                                         89



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    PREGNANCY AND HOW THEY HOW -- AND ALL OF THEIR OPTIONS.  BUT IF ONE OF

                    THE OPTIONS IS NOT ABORTION, THEN THEY'RE GOING TO BE SHUT DOWN AND

                    THAT'S THE EXACT INTENT OF THIS BILL.  I'VE DEBATED IT BEFORE.  ALL NINE

                    MEMBERS ARE ALL GOING TO BE FULL TERM ABORTION ADVOCATES.  OF COURSE

                    THERE ARE NO MINORITY MEMBERS FROM THE ASSEMBLY OR THE SENATE ON

                    THIS, BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE WANTING TO BE ON THAT BOARD TO

                    GIVE AN OFFSET, TO GIVE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, TO GIVE THE PRO-LIFE,

                    WHICH I'M PROUD TO STAND FOR.

                                 IN THAT BILL IT SAYS THAT THESE ARE TO BE NON-COERCIVE.

                    ARE YOU KIDDING ME?  THIS TOTAL BILL IS COERCIVE.  THIS TOTAL BILL TELLS

                    YOU THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE PRO-LIFE.  THIS BILL TELLS YOU THAT YOU'RE GOING TO

                    GET SHUT DOWN.  WE KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THIS BILL IS.  I DON'T NEED

                    TO HAVE TECHNICAL -- TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES WITH -- WITH LANGUAGE.  THE

                    FORMER SPEAKER WAS 100 PERCENT CORRECT.  THIS WILL OPEN THE GATE TO

                    SHUT DOWN ANY CENTER THAT'S PRO-LIFE.

                                 I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF IT.  I'M URGING ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO

                    VOTE AGAINST IT, THIS IS A HORRIBLE BILL.  THIS IS A BILL THAT -- THAT -- THAT

                    BASICALLY SAYS IF YOU'RE NOT FOR ABORTION, YOU'RE GOING TO GET SHUT DOWN

                    AND TO SHUT UP.  IF YOU'RE PRO-LIFE, SHUT UP.  WE DON'T WANT YOU TALKING

                    TO PREGNANT WOMEN.  WE DON'T WANT YOU TALKING TO WOMEN WHO EVEN

                    THINK THEY'RE GOING TO GET PREGNANT.  THAT'S DISGUSTING TO ME, AND I'M

                    NOT GOING TO HOLD IT BACK.  THIS BILL NEEDS TO GO IN THE TRASH HEAP WHERE

                    IT BELONGS.  PRO-LIFE WILL NOT BE SILENCED.  WE ALREADY HAVE THE NUMBER

                    ONE ABORTION CAPITAL IN THE WORLD RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.  GOD

                    HELP US ALL.  FULL TERM ABORTION ON DEMAND.  I DEBATED IT.  SO I -- I

                                         90



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    LAUGH WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO TELL ME WHAT'S IN THE BILL.  I KNOW THE BILL

                    BETTER THAN ANYONE.  I'VE TALKED TO HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE, ATTORNEYS ABOUT

                    IT.  I KNOW THE LANGUAGE.  THE HEALTH OF A MOTHER?  WHEN I HEAR THIS,

                    OH, THIS BILL WOULD -- THE HEALTH OF A MOTHER IS LESS THAN 1 PERCENT IN

                    ANY PREGNANCY, SO PLEASE STOP USING THAT FALSE NARRATIVE AS IF 90

                    PERCENT OF WOMEN ARE -- HAVE -- HAVE LIFE OR DEATH ISSUES AT PREGNANCY.

                                 I'M GOING TO VOTE NO.  I URGE THIS TO NEVER COME BACK

                    UP AGAIN, THAT'S HOW STRONGLY I ADVOCATE A NO-VOTE ON THIS.  THE

                    LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.  THE WAY IT'S PUT TOGETHER, THE

                    NINE MEMBERS, SORRY.  CAN'T -- I CAN'T BE FOOLED WITH THE TECHNICAL

                    LANGUAGE, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS.  I'M GOING TO BE VOTING NO.

                    I'M URGING EVERYONE ELSE TO VOTE FOR NO.  STAND UP FOR LIFE.  STAND UP

                    FOR THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE.  STAND UP FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO

                    ADVOCATE FOR LIFE, WHO WANT TO TALK TO PREGNANT WOMEN AND TELL THEM

                    THERE IS AN OPTION, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO GET AN ABORTION.  BUT

                    UNFORTUNATELY, TO A LOT OF PEOPLE ABORTION IS THEIR RELIGION; I DON'T

                    KNOW, WHY BUT IT IS.  THAT IF YOU DON'T EVEN TAKE ON THE -- THE THOUGHT

                    OF HAVING AN ABORTION, YOU'RE CHASTISED, YOU'RE CASTRATED, YOU'RE VOTED

                    OUT OF EVERYTHING.  I'VE BEEN ATTACKED TOO MANY TIMES THAT I CAN

                    IMAGINE BECAUSE OF MY PRO-LIFE STANCE.  WHY, BECAUSE I STAND WITH

                    LIFE?  BECAUSE I STAND THAT A WOMAN SHOULD TAKE THAT PREGNANCY TO FULL

                    TERM AND HAVE THE BABY?  I DON'T GET IT, BUT I DON'T HAVE TO.  THESE ARE

                    MY BELIEFS AND I STAND BY THEM.  I'M GOING TO VOTE NO.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO

                    EXPRESS MY THOUGHTS ON THIS BILL.

                                         91



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  FOR THE REASONS STATED EARLIER BY

                    MY COLLEAGUES AND, ONCE AGAIN, FOR THE SECOND TIME TODAY, A TEMPORARY

                    TASK FORCE WILL BE CONSTRUCTED WITHOUT MINORITY REPRESENTATION.

                    SECOND TIME TODAY.  THAT'S 30 PERCENT OF THE RESIDENTS IN THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK.  THAT'S SIX MILLION PEOPLE THAT WON'T HAVE A SAY IN WHAT

                    HAPPENS.  THIS IS ROUTINE IN THIS ROOM AND I HOPE AND PRAY TO GOD IT

                    STOPS.  I AM IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW IS THE -- GOOD TRY.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUESTION OR TWO?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. GLICK:  CERTAINLY.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MS. GLICK.  AS I

                    READ THROUGH THE BILL AND LOOKED AT THE LANGUAGE, WHAT DO YOU SEE

                    HAPPENING TO A PLACE LIKE CARE NET, SAVE THE STORKS?  WHAT DO YOU SEE

                    HAPPENING TO AN ENTITY LIKE THAT IF THIS GOES FORWARD?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I THINK THAT THEY WILL SUBMIT THEIR

                                         92



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    INFORMATION AND THE DEPARTMENT WILL, YOU KNOW, ISSUE A REPORT AND

                    GIVE US SOME IDEA OF HOW -- WHETHER THESE ARE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE

                    WIDESPREAD OR -- WHICH SEEMS TO BE FROM THE ANECDOTAL INFORMATION

                    THEY SEEM TO BE QUITE PROLIFIC, BUT PERHAPS THAT'S ERRONEOUS AND WE'LL

                    FIND THAT IT'S A LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCE THAT IS NOT IMPEDING.  I WILL POINT

                    OUT TO YOU, THOUGH, THAT WE HAVE A SERIOUS MATERNAL MORTALITY RATE IN

                    THIS STATE SO DELAYING GOING TO A LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER IF YOU

                    INTEND TO CARRY A PREGNANCY FORWARD, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO GET THAT

                    PRENATAL CARE.  WE DO A MISERABLE JOB OF PROVIDING ACCESS TO THAT AND

                    SO ANYTHING THAT DELAYS WOMEN SEEKING ACTUAL LEGITIMATE MEDICAL

                    ATTENTION IS PROBABLY NOT GOOD, BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THIS IS TO STUDY

                    HOW WIDESPREAD THIS IS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO I WAS LOOKING AT SOME

                    OTHER AGENCIES IN NEW YORK STATE AND -- AND ONE THAT CAME ACROSS WAS

                    PDL, PREGNANCY DECISION LINE.  THEY HELP WOMEN THAT ARE

                    CONSIDERING AN ABORTION.  DO YOU KNOW IF THAT AGENCY HAS A MEDICAL

                    TECHNICIAN ON -- A LICENSED TECHNICIAN?

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO, I DON'T.  THAT'S WHY THE REPORT IS

                    IMPORTANT.  IF THEY HAVE A LICENSED MEDICAL PROVIDER THAT IS DIRECTING

                    THE HEALTH CARE, THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO KNOW.  BUT THE -- IF IT IS NOT

                    A STATE LICENSED HEALTH CARE FACILITY OR IT DOESN'T HAVE THE DIRECTION OF A

                    LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER, THEN IT FALLS UNDER THE TERMS OF THE

                    DEFINITION.  BUT I DON'T KNOW OFFHAND, AND YOU COULD GIVE ME 20

                    DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS AND I COULDN'T TELL YOU.  THAT'S THE POINT OF THE

                    BILL.

                                         93



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  YEAH, I -- I UNDERSTAND THE

                    POINT OF THE BILL.  SO AN AGENCY LIKE THIS IF THEY DIDN'T -- IF THEY DIDN'T

                    HAVE THE RIGHT INDIVIDUALS IN THEIR AGENCY, THEY WOULD THEN BE REQUIRED

                    TO DO SO?  WOULD THEY BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A LICENSED HEALTH

                    PROFESSIONAL AT THAT POINT?

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO, THAT'S NOT THE -- THIS IS A STUDY BILL.

                    IT HAS NO REQUIREMENT THAT CHANGES HOW THEY'RE OPERATING, THEY -- WE

                    JUST NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY'RE OPERATING.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO -- SO CARE NET AS I SAID

                    EARLIER, THIS BILL WOULD NOT AFFECT CARE NET AT ALL BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE

                    AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THEY SHOULD OPERATE.  WOULD THE FINDINGS OF

                    THIS TASK FORCE HAVE THE ABILITY TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY DO BUSINESS?

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO, THIS -- THAT WOULD NOT BE MY

                    UNDERSTANDING.  THIS IS TO GATHER INFORMATION ABOUT HOW ORGANIZATIONS

                    THAT FIT THE DEFINITION OF A LIMITED PREGNANCY CRISIS CENTER OPERATES AND

                    -- AND, YOU KNOW, HOW WIDESPREAD IT IS.  SO THAT WOULDN'T CHANGE, BUT I

                    CERTAINLY WOULD HOPE THAT IF THEY HAVE WOMEN WHO ARE LOOKING TO

                    CARRY THEIR PREGNANCY TO TERM THAT THEY WOULD IMMEDIATELY TELL THEM

                    THAT THEY SHOULD SEE A LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO THE GOAL OF THE -- THE GOAL

                    OF THE BILL IS TO MAKE SURE EACH PREGNANT WOMAN IS GIVEN THE OPTION OR

                    DIRECTION OF SEEING A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER, A LICENSED HEALTH CARE

                    PROVIDER, CORRECT?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, THAT IS CERTAINLY WHAT WE THINK

                    SHOULD HAPPEN, BUT WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT WOMEN DON'T

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    COME OUT FEELING THAT THEY WERE PRESSURED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.  THEY

                    SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO SEEK MEDICAL -- MEDICALLY LEGITIMATE

                    INFORMATION REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY WANT TO CARRY THE PREGNANCY TO

                    TERM OR TERMINATE THE PREGNANCY.  THAT SHOULD BE A DECISION THAT'S

                    DISCUSSED WITH SOMEONE WHO IS PROVIDING MEDICALLY LEGITIMATE

                    INFORMATION.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO AS YOU JUST SAID,

                    YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BEING PRESSURED.  WHEN A -- WHEN A YOUNG LADY OR

                    A WOMAN GOES TO AN ABORTION CLINIC, ARE THEY TOLD THE OTHER OPTION AT A

                    CLINIC THAT THEY COULD CARRY THE CHILD TO TERM?  IS THAT SOMETHING THAT

                    AN ABORTION CLINIC HAS TO DO?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I THINK THAT WHEN SOMEBODY HAS

                    MADE A DECISION AND THEY SEEK TO HAVE AN ABORTION, THEY HAVE MADE A

                    DECISION.  BUT I THINK THAT THERE CERTAINLY ARE TIMES WHEN PEOPLE HAVE

                    GONE AND IN THEIR -- THEY DISCUSS WHAT THE -- WHAT THEIR PROCEDURE IS

                    AND PEOPLE SOMETIMES CHANGE THEIR MIND.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO -- SO WHAT I'M

                    HEARING IS MANY OF THE -- THE LADIES THAT ARE GOING TO POSSIBLY DO AN

                    ABORTION HAVE -- HAVE ALREADY TALKED TO SOMEONE PRIOR TO GETTING TO THE

                    CLINIC TO KIND OF GUIDE THEM IN THAT DIRECTION.  WHO WOULD -- IS THAT A

                    LICENSED HEALTH PROFESSIONAL THAT WOULD DO THAT?

                                 MS. GLICK:  YEAH, WELL, I THINK WHEN SOMEBODY

                    GOES TO THEIR OBSTETRICIAN -- WELL, THEY GO TO A GYNECOLOGIST PROBABLY

                    AND THEY FIND THAT THEY ARE PREGNANT, THEY -- SOMETIMES THAT'S A GREAT

                    HAPPINESS, THEY MAY HAVE WAITED A LONG TIME TO CONCEIVE, OR THEY MAY

                                         95



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    BE A LITTLE BIT UPSET.  THEY MAY ALREADY HAVE SIX CHILDREN THAT THEY'RE

                    HAVING TROUBLE SUPPORTING, OR THEY MAY HAVE TWO KIDS, ONE OF WHOM

                    THEY'RE SPENDING THEIR TIME WITH BECAUSE THE CHILD HAS SPECIAL NEEDS,

                    AND I'M SPEAKING BASED ON CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD WITH FRIENDS OVER A

                    PERIOD OF YEARS.  SO PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT REACTIONS, SOMETIMES THEY'RE

                    REALLY HAPPY, SOMETIMES THEY'RE CONFLICTED, SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT SURE.

                    AND THEY MAY TALK TO ANY NUMBER OF THEIR FAMILY, FRIENDS, WHATEVER

                    BEFORE THEY MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHETHER TO CONTINUE A PREGNANCY OR

                    NOT.  BUT ONCE -- ONCE THEY'VE MADE A DECISION AND ACTUALLY ARE GOING

                    FOR AN APPOINTMENT FOR AN ABORTION, I THINK THEY'VE MADE A DECISION.

                    BUT I THINK A LOT OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS HAPPEN BEFORE THAT DECISION IS

                    MADE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO -- SO WHEN THEY MAKE THAT

                    DECISION PRIOR TO GOING TO AN ABORTION CLINIC, ALL OF THE OTHER

                    INDIVIDUALS THAT TALKED WITH THAT MOTHER, FAMILY, FRIENDS, OTHER -- OTHER

                    PREGNANT LADIES, I DON'T KNOW, THAT'S OKAY, THEY WOULD ACTUALLY NEED TO

                    TALK TO A HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL PRIOR TO GOING TO THAT CLINIC.  DID I

                    HEAR YOU RIGHT?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, THEY'VE ALREADY GOTTEN

                    INFORMATION FROM THEIR GYNECOLOGIST SO THEY HAVE, IN FACT, SEEN A HEALTH

                    CARE PROFESSIONAL.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  BUT ISN'T THAT THE POINT

                    OF THE BILL, TO GET THEM TO A HEALTH PROFESSIONAL BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T

                    SEEN THE GYNECOLOGIST BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE PREGNANT?

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO, THAT'S NOT --

                                         96



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL?

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO.  THAT'S NOT THE POINT OF THIS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO WHAT I'M READING UP HERE

                    ON THE -- ON THE WALL IS A REPORT EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND

                    RESOURCE NEEDS FACING PREGNANT WOMEN IN NEW YORK.  ISN'T THAT AN

                    UNMET NEED?  I'M JUST ASKING.

                                 MS. GLICK:  I THINK THE POINT OF THE BILL IS TO HAVE --

                    AUTHORIZE THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A SURVEY AND TO

                    DETERMINE THE PREVALENCE OF THOSE ORGANIZATIONS OR ENTITIES OR FACILITIES

                    THAT MEET THE DEFINITION OF LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY CENTER WHICH IS

                    NOT, IN FACT, A HEALTH CARE FACILITY.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  ONE -- ONE LAST

                    QUESTION, MADAM SPONSOR, IF YOU'RE WILLING.  I KNOW TALKING WITH A LOT

                    OF PARENTS, TALKING WITH SCHOOLS BACK HOME, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PUSHING

                    SEX EDUCATION EARLIER AND EARLIER AND EARLIER IN OUR GRADES.  YOU KNOW,

                    WE'RE TRYING TO GET OUR -- OUR YOUNG PEOPLE -- OUR YOUNG STUDENTS,

                    WE'RE TRYING TO GIVE THEM KNOWLEDGE WAY QUICKER THAN MOST PARENTS

                    WOULD LIKE TO SEE.  SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, ARE THERE ANY PROGRAMS

                    IN -- IN HIGH SCHOOL THAT THE SENIOR YEAR OF -- OF A SENIOR FEMALE THAT

                    GIVES THEM THE OPTIONS OF WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF THEY WERE PREGNANT?

                    DO THEY HAVE AN OPTION FOR AN ABORTION?  DO THEY HAVE AN OPTION TO --

                                 MS. GLICK:  I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT.

                    I WOULD HOPE THAT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE AGE APPROPRIATE --

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  MR. SPEAKER --

                                 MS. GLICK:  -- SEX EDUCATION.

                                         97



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  I CANNOT HEAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  I'M SORRY.  WE NEED A

                    LITTLE QUIET, IS THAT WHAT THE PROBLEM IS?  SHH.

                                 MS. GLICK:  I WOULD HOPE THAT WE WOULD HAVE AGE

                    APPROPRIATE INFORMATION TO YOUNGSTERS SO WE WOULDN'T GET TO BE A

                    SENIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL WITHOUT KNOWING A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN, YOU

                    KNOW, WHAT YOUR FRIENDS HAVE TOLD YOU.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO -- SO MY VERY LAST

                    QUESTION IS, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN YOUR BILL SEEING A HEALTH CARE

                    PROFESSIONAL, IS THE VALUE OF THE INFORMATION FROM A CHILD'S PARENTS

                    RELEVANT TO THIS?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I DON'T SEE WHERE IT FITS INTO THE

                    BILL.  OBVIOUSLY PARENTS TELLS THEIR KIDS ALL SORTS OF THINGS AND HAVE

                    ACCESS TO THEIR CHILDREN ALL THE TIME SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE POINT OF

                    THE QUESTION IS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  BUT -- BUT THE POINT IS, MA'AM,

                    THAT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF YOUNG MOTHERS REALLY RELY ON THEIR MOTHERS TO

                    GIVE THEM HEALTH CARE ADVICE, TO GIVE THEM DIRECTION, UNDERSTANDING OF

                    WHAT COULD AND COULDN'T HAPPEN AND IN THAT SITUATION, ESPECIALLY IN MY

                    DISTRICT WHERE WE HAVE AMISH INDIVIDUALS, WE HAVE MENNONITES, THEY

                    RELY MORE ON FAMILY THAN THEY DO A HEALTH PROFESSIONAL OR A HEALTH -- A

                    LICENSED HEALTH PROFESSIONAL.  WOULD THIS BILL AFFECT THEM?

                                 MS. GLICK:  THE BILL HAS NO -- IN NO WAY INTERFERES

                    WITH PEOPLE HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THEIR -- THEIR MOMS, NOR WILL

                    THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH BE ASKING ABOUT THAT TO MY UNDERSTANDING.

                                         98



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  DO --

                                 MS. GLICK:  THAT'S NOT THE INTENT OF THE BILL.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE -- DO

                    YOU KNOW WHAT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WILL BE ASKING?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, THAT'S IN THE BODY OF THE BILL.

                    THAT'S THE SUBSTANCE OF THE BILL.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  THANK YOU -- THANK

                    YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.  JUST

                    TO -- JUST TO SUM THINGS UP HERE.  MY -- MY CONCERN IS, AGAIN, WE'RE

                    GOING TO CREATE A TASK FORCE WITHOUT BRINGING ALL THE PLAYERS TO THE

                    TABLE.  AND, AGAIN, WE'RE GOING TO GET A LOPSIDED BUNCH OF NUMBERS THAT

                    WILL REALLY NOT BE A TRUE PICTURE OF WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON OUT THERE.

                    AND WHAT WILL WE DO?  WHO WILL WE HARM?  WHAT CHILDREN WILL NOT

                    MAKE IT TO THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING HERE?  I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE

                    -- THE TASK FORCE AND REALLY WHAT IT'S AIMED TO DO.

                                 SO I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT THE BILL AS -- AS I'M SURE

                    YOU KNOW, BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO DO A BILL LIKE THIS, WE NEED TO BRING

                    EVERY SIDE OF THE -- EVERY SIDE TO THE TABLE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE OUR

                    BEST UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE NEED, MOTHERS, PARENTS,

                    FAMILIES, PRO-LIFE, ABORTION, THEY -- THEY NEED TO ALL BE AT THAT TABLE.  SO

                    I GUESS I'M ASKING THAT IF THIS BILL PASSES, PLEASE LOOK AT AMENDMENTS TO

                    POSSIBLY BRING ALL OF THE PLAYERS TO THE TABLE.  THAT WAY THE DEPARTMENT

                                         99



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    OF HEALTH, THE COMMISSIONER CAN SEE EVERY ASPECT OF HOW IT AFFECTS

                    EVERYONE IN NEW YORK, NOT IN JUST ONE DIRECTION.  SO THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR THE TIME AND THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR, FOR ANSWERING

                    MY QUESTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. LAWLER.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. GLICK YIELDS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY, THANK YOU.  WITH RESPECT TO

                    THE STUDY, IS IT PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON SEEING WHAT RESTRICTIONS AND/OR

                    IMPEDIMENTS THERE ARE FOR A WOMAN TO RECEIVE ABORTION SERVICES?

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO.  THE -- THE POINT OF THE BILL IS TO GET

                    ACTUAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE PREVALENCE OF ORGANIZATIONS.  I KNOW

                    THERE'S BEEN A GREAT DEAL OF DISCUSSION ABOUT MAKING SURE EVERYBODY

                    HAS ALL THE OPTIONS, BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT IN MOST OF THESE INSTANCES

                    THE ONE OPTION THAT IS NOT DISCUSSED AT LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY

                    CENTERS IS THE OPTION TO TERMINATE.  SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF

                    DISINGENUOUSNESS, IF YOU WOULD, SIR.  BUT I THINK THAT WE'VE HAD A LOT OF

                    ANECDOTAL INFORMATION FROM VARIOUS GROUPS THAT HAVE OBSERVED THAT

                    THERE ARE THESE CENTERS OR FACILITIES THAT ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO COME IN

                    FOR A FREE TEST, THEY GET THE FREE TEST, BUT SHOULD THEY WANT TO DISCUSS A

                    TERMINATION THEN THERE IS NOT EXACTLY A FREE DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT.  ON

                                         100



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THE OTHER HAND, IF SOMEBODY IS PREGNANT, THEY SHOULD REALLY BE REFERRED

                    TO SOMEONE WHO CAN TALK TO THEM BECAUSE SOMEBODY MAY HAVE

                    UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS THAT COULD AFFECT A HEALTHY PREGNANCY.

                    AND WE DO HAVE -- WE REALLY DO HAVE A TERRIBLE RECORD IN NEW YORK

                    STATE ON MATERNAL MORTALITY AND UNDERWEIGHT BABIES, ET CETERA.  SO

                    SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO CONTINUE A PREGNANCY REALLY SHOULD NOT BE

                    TALKING TO LAY PEOPLE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, OPTIONS; THEY SHOULD BE TALKING

                    TO A HEALTH PROFESSIONAL.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO IF I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY,

                    SOMEBODY GOING TO A LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTER, PART OF THE

                    STUDY IS TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE FULLY MEETING THE NEEDS AND

                    PROVIDING ALL OF THE INFORMATION.  IF SOMEBODY GOES TO AN ABORTION

                    CLINIC, FOR INSTANCE, WILL THIS STUDY EXAMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE

                    PROVIDING THE PATIENT WITH INFORMATION ABOUT ADOPTIVE SERVICES, FOR

                    INSTANCE?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, PRESUMABLY, IF SOMEONE HAS NOT

                    GONE TO A LIMITED PREGNANCY CENTER AND HAS CHOSEN INSTEAD TO GO TO A

                    MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, THEY WILL HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THEIR

                    GYNECOLOGIST ABOUT HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THEIR PREGNANCY, HOW FAR ALONG

                    THEY ARE, AND THERE CERTAINLY COULD BE SOMEONE IN THE DOCTOR'S OR THE

                    NURSE PRACTITIONER'S OFFICE WHO ADVISES THEM IF THEY HAVE AMBIVALENCE

                    TO TALK TO A COUNSELOR.  WHEN SOMEBODY CHOOSES TO GO TO AN ABORTION

                    PROVIDER, THEY'VE ALREADY MADE UP THEIR MIND.  PRESUMABLY.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OH, ALL RIGHT.  I THINK THE PRESUMABLY

                    IS AN IMPORTANT WORD BECAUSE I DON'T THINK NECESSARILY THAT EVERYONE

                                         101



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WHO GOES TO SPEAK WITH A --

                                 MS. GLICK:  AND I -- AND I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE

                    PEOPLE WHO SOMETIMES CHANGE THEIR MIND AND THAT'S -- THEY'RE NOT

                    FORCED, THERE ARE NO FORCED ABORTIONS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  RIGHT.  I -- I GUESS THE -- MY -- MY

                    POINT IN ASKING THAT IS REALLY THAT IF THE -- IF YOU'RE -- FROM YOUR

                    PERSPECTIVE THE POINT OF THIS BILL IS TO ENSURE THAT PREGNANT WOMEN ARE

                    GETTING ALL OF THE INFORMATION.

                                 MS. GLICK:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SHOULDN'T THAT KIND OF APPLY ACROSS

                    THE BOARD TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE GETTING ALL OF THE INFORMATION AND

                    DON'T FEEL, POTENTIALLY, THAT THEIR ONLY OPTION MAY BE AN ABORTION?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I -- I WILL SAY THAT THERE IS BOTH A

                    CODE OF ETHICS FOR MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS, THEY ARE LICENSED BY THE

                    STATE.  THEY ARE THERE TO ASSIST THEIR PATIENTS IN MAKING DECISIONS THAT

                    ARE BEST FOR THEM.  SO THERE IS A SOME OVERSIGHT WHICH IS NOT IN ANY

                    WAY TRUE OF LIMITED PREGNANCY CENTERS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WILL THIS STUDY LOOK AT THE UNMET

                    NEEDS OF PREGNANT WOMEN BASED ON A NUMBER OF FACTORS SUCH AS RACE OR

                    ETHNICITY OR RELIGION AND HOW THAT IMPACTS WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE

                    GETTING THE RIGHT SERVICES?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I -- I THINK THAT THIS -- THE POINT OF

                    THE BILL IS TO LOOK AT THE PREVALENCE OF THESE PARTICULAR LIMITED SERVICE

                    PREGNANCY CENTERS AND IN FINDING OUT PERHAPS THAT THEY HAVE VERY FEW

                    CLIENTS.  I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE DO

                                         102



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    YOU SEE?  AND THEY MAY SEE VERY FEW PEOPLE AND THAT MAY BE AN

                    INDICATION THAT PEOPLE ARE, IN FACT, CHOOSING TO GO TO MEDICAL

                    PROFESSIONALS FIRST AND FOREMOST.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO --

                                 MS. GLICK:  WHICH WOULD BE GOOD THING, IN MY

                    PERSONAL OPINION.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  AND THE REASON I ASK THAT IS BECAUSE

                    ACCORDING TO STATISTICS THAT WERE RELEASED BY NEW YORK CITY, IN 2012

                    THERE WERE MORE ABORTIONS THAN LIVE BIRTHS AMONG CERTAIN RACES.  AND

                    SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, ARE -- ARE WE GOING TO EXAMINE AS PART OF THIS

                    STUDY WHETHER OR NOT WOMEN OF COLOR, FOR INSTANCE, ARE GETTING ALL OF

                    THE INFORMATION THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE A DECISION IN WHAT'S BEST FOR

                    THEM, WHETHER THAT IS TO HAVE AN ABORTION OR TO SEE A -- A BIRTH ALL THE

                    WAY THROUGH.  IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS VERY TARGETED TOWARDS ONE DIRECTION

                    AND NOT REALLY TRYING TO ENSURE THAT ALL WOMEN ACROSS THE STATE HAVE ALL

                    OF THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE.

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS IN -- IN THE

                    STUDY IS THE BASIC DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION THAT IS REQUESTED.  BUT I

                    WOULD SAY TO YOU THAT THIS -- MY BELIEF IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT

                    ACCESS FOR -- ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE FOR MOST NEW YORKERS WHICH IS WHY

                    I AM ON MR. GOTTFRIED'S NEW YORK HEALTH BILL TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS A

                    WIDER ACCESS TO BASIC HEALTH CARE FOR ALL NEW YORKERS, REGARDLESS OF

                    WHETHER THEY ARE PREGNANT OR NOT, OR PLANNING TO BE, ET CETERA.  SO THAT

                    TO ME IS A DIFFERENT PIECE OF LEGISLATION IN TERMS OF ENSURING THAT

                    EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO BASIC HEALTH CARE, AND I FULLY SUPPORT THAT BILL

                                         103



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    AND HOPE THAT WE CAN MOVE THAT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE

                    GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE?

                                 MS. GLICK:  YEAH, SOMEWHAT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO -- YEAH, THERE ARE CDC

                    STATISTICS, THERE'S ALSO STATISTICS THAT HAVE BEEN COMPILED BY THE

                    GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE.  ACCORDING TO THE GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE IN --

                    FROM 2011 TO 2017, IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IN 2011 THERE WERE 94

                    CLINICS THAT PROVIDE ACCESS TO ABORTION; IN 2017, THERE WERE 113.  THAT

                    IS THE SECOND-MOST IN THE COUNTRY BEHIND CALIFORNIA.  CALIFORNIA HAD

                    160 IN 2011 AND 161 IN 2017.  SO WE SAW A -- A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE OF

                    19 CLINICS COMPARED TO CALIFORNIA WHICH ONLY SAW AN INCREASE OF ONE.

                    NOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ACTUAL ABORTION RATES PER EVERY 1,000

                    WOMAN -- WOMEN AGE 15 TO 44, IN 2011 NEW YORK STATE'S RATE WAS

                    34.2; IN 2017 IT WAS 26.3.  NOW, I GUESS DEPENDING ON YOUR

                    PERSPECTIVE, A DECLINE IN THE NUMBER OF ABORTION CASES IS PROBABLY A

                    GOOD THING.  MAYBE PEOPLE'S NEEDS ARE BEING MET AND THEY'RE -- AND

                    THEY'RE CHOOSING TO BRING A -- A BABY TO FULL TERM.  IF YOU LOOK AT ACROSS

                    THE COUNTRY THE NUMBER OF ABORTION RESTRICTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN ENACTED,

                    OBVIOUSLY IT VARIES STATE TO STATE, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ABORTION

                    RESTRICTIONS HAVE BEEN ENACTED IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK DURING THAT

                    TIME PERIOD?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I DON'T SEE WHAT -- HOW THAT IS

                    GERMANE TO THE BILL, BUT I THINK THAT WE'VE SEEN IN -- ACROSS THE COUNTRY

                    HUNDREDS OF RESTRICTIONS, SO IT IS NOT -- IT WOULD NOT BE A SURPRISE TO ME

                                         104



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    AND SO I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU HAVE SO MUCH DATA SO

                    OBVIOUSLY THAT IS NOT PART OF A STUDY THAT WE NEED TO DO, BUT I THINK IT'S

                    INTERESTING THAT THERE'S BEEN A DIMINUTION OF ABORTIONS IN THE STATE.  I

                    SUSPECT THAT AT SOME POINT THAT MAY CHANGE BASED ON THE INCREASED

                    LIMITATIONS IN OTHER PLACES.  SO WE HAVEN'T ADDED RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE

                    WE BELIEVE IN THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT OF WOMEN TO MAKE CHOICES, OR

                    BARRING A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, WE BELIEVE THERE IS A MORAL RIGHT OF

                    WOMEN TO DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THEIR BODIES.  BUT WE ARE QUITE OFF

                    THE GERMANE POINT OF THE BILL.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  I WOULD DISAGREE, AND I'LL GET TO WHY

                    IN A SECOND.  THE -- JUST TO ANSWER THE QUESTION FOR EVERYONE, THERE --

                    THERE HAVE BEEN ZERO RESTRICTIONS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK DURING THE

                    TIME PERIOD OF 2011 TO 2017 AND, IN FACT, IT PREDATES ME, BUT I BELIEVE

                    YOU WERE THE SPONSOR OF THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ACT WHICH PASSED IN

                    2019, AND I BELIEVE THIS YEAR MARKS 51 OR 52 YEARS SINCE NEW YORK

                    STATE LEGALIZED ABORTION TO BEGIN WITH, WHICH WAS BEFORE ROE V. WADE.

                    SO I -- I GUESS MY QUESTION TO YOU ULTIMATELY IS GIVEN THAT NEW YORK

                    STATE HAS HAD ZERO RESTRICTIONS PUT IN PLACE OVER THE LAST DECADE-PLUS,

                    GIVEN THE FACT THAT NEW YORK STATE HAS INCREASED THE NUMBER OF

                    ABORTION CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE STATE, GIVEN THE FACT THAT YOU PASSED

                    THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ACT, AND I'M SURE YOU'RE VERY PROUD OF THAT, IS

                    IT YOUR CONTENTION THAT WOMEN IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK DO NOT HAVE

                    ACCESS TO ABORTION OR DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH ACCESS TO ABORTION?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I THINK THAT IN GENERAL WOMEN

                    DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE.  SO I THINK THAT THAT'S FOR SURE.

                                         105



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    AND WE CERTAINLY SEE THAT WOMEN -- MATERNAL MORTALITY AND -- AND

                    OTHER HEALTH CONCERNS ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN ON THE INCREASE, WHICH

                    SHOULD CONCERN ALL OF US.  AND SO THE POINT OF THE BILL IS TO SEE WHETHER

                    THE ANECDOTAL INFORMATION THAT ORGANIZATIONS THAT TRACK SOME OF THESE

                    CONCERNS, BECAUSE WOMEN RAISED THEM WITH THE ORGANIZATIONS, LIKE THE

                    NATIONAL COUNCIL OF JEWISH WOMEN, THEY HAVE ANECDOTAL INFORMATION

                    AND I, YOU KNOW, BELIEVE THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    HEALTH TO DETERMINE IF THIS -- THE PREVALENCE OF LIMITED SERVICE

                    PREGNANCY CENTERS IS AN ISSUE OR NOT AND WHAT THE DYNAMICS OF THAT ARE.

                    THAT'S THE POINT OF THE STUDY BILL AND, YES, I THINK THAT WE DON'T HAVE

                    ENOUGH ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE FOR WOMEN OR, FRANKLY, FOR MEN WHICH IS

                    WHY MR. GOTTFRIED'S BILL IS SO IMPORTANT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  I THINK IT IS SOMEWHAT ALARMING 52

                    YEARS AFTER NEW YORK STATE LEGALIZED ABORTION AND NEARLY THREE YEARS

                    AFTER THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION PASSED HER REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH

                    ACT, AND AT A TIME WHERE NEW YORK STATE HAS CONSISTENTLY RANKED AT OR

                    NEAR THE TOP OF THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS PROVIDED EVERY YEAR IN THE

                    STATE, THAT THE SPONSOR SOMEHOW WOULD LIKE TO INDICATE THAT PEOPLE IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO ABORTION SERVICES IN NEW

                    YORK STATE.  THIS BILL IS OBVIOUSLY INTENDED TO GO AFTER ORGANIZATIONS

                    THAT MAY COUNSEL WOMEN AND FAMILIES ABOUT OTHER OPTIONS BEYOND

                    ABORTION.  I THINK GENERALLY SPEAKING ANYONE WHO WOULD GO USE THOSE

                                         106



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    SERVICES IS PROBABLY INCLINED TO SUBSCRIBE TO THAT POSITION OR THAT POINT

                    OF VIEW.  I THINK THE IDEA THAT THE SPONSOR WANTS TO FOCUS ON THAT WHILE

                    SO MANY ABORTIONS ARE BEING PROVIDED THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK IS UNFORTUNATE, AND I THINK THERE IS A LOT BETTER USE OF OUR TIME

                    AND STATE RESOURCES TO HELP WOMEN AND PREGNANT WOMEN THROUGHOUT

                    OUR STATE.  AND WITH THAT, I WILL BE VOTING NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. SALKA.

                                 MR. SALKA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW BRIEF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. GLICK:  SURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK YIELDS.

                                 MR. SALKA:  THANK YOU, MS. GLICK.  NOW, SEVERAL

                    TIMES YOU'VE CITED THIS ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE COMING FROM THESE GROUPS.

                    WOULD ONE OF THOSE GROUPS BE PLANNED PARENTHOOD?

                                 MS. GLICK:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MR. SALKA:  WOULD ONE OF THE GROUPS THAT HAVE

                    GIVEN YOU THIS ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE, IF YOU WILL, OF PEOPLE NOT RECEIVING

                    THE PROPER COUNSELING, WOULD ONE OF THOSE GROUPS BE PLANNED

                    PARENTHOOD?

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO.

                                 MR. SALKA:  SO PLANNED PARENTHOOD HAS NOT -- NOT

                    CHIMED IN AT ALL ON THIS.

                                 MS. GLICK:  NO.

                                         107



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. SALKA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  NOW, THIS TASK

                    FORCE IS GOING TO BE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN DESIGNING THE QUESTIONNAIRE

                    AND DESIGNING THE STUDY?  OR WILL THIS BE SOMETHING THAT WILL BE UNDER

                    THE PURVIEW OF THE DOH?  JUST TRYING TO GET AN IDEA ABOUT --

                                 MS. GLICK:  THE DEPARTMENT CONDUCTS THE STUDY.

                                 MR. SALKA:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MS. GLICK:  THE DEPARTMENT CONDUCTS THE STUDY.

                    THE TASK FORCE PRESUMABLY LOOKS AT THE DATA AND PROVIDES

                    RECOMMENDATIONS.

                                 MR. SALKA:  SO WHO WILL BE GUIDING THE PARAMETERS

                    ON THIS STUDY?  IN OTHER WORDS, WHO WILL BE MAKING UP THE -- THE

                    CRITERIA THAT THEY WILL USE TO DESIGN THE STUDY THAT WILL -- THE RESULTS THAT

                    WILL BE -- THAT WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE TASK FORCE FOR -- FOR

                    IMPLEMENTATION?  WHO'S GOING TO MAKE UP THE QUESTIONS?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, THE -- THE BILL LISTS VARIETY OF AREAS

                    FOR DATA COLLECTION AND SO THAT'S -- THE BILL DIRECTS THAT.  THE REPORT BY

                    THE DEPARTMENT TO THE TASK FORCE WILL BE AN AGGREGATION OF THAT

                    INFORMATION AND THE TASK FORCE WILL PRESUMABLY PROVIDE

                    RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON THE DATA RECEIVED.

                                 MR. SALKA:  BASED ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE

                    DATA THAT'S COMPILED BY THE DOH.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THEY WILL MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS

                    BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN COLLECTED.

                                 MR. SALKA:  AND OF COURSE IT WILL BE -- ULTIMATELY

                    BE THE DOH THAT WILL DECIDE, GIVEN THAT DATA, ON WHAT DIRECTION THEY

                                         108



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WANT TO GO WITH ANY KIND OF IMPLEMENTATION OF POLICY --

                                 MS. GLICK:  I -- I DON'T BELIEVE THE TASK FORCE HAS THE

                    AUTHORITY TO TELL THE DEPARTMENT EXACTLY WHAT TO DO, BUT IT CAN MAKE

                    RECOMMENDATIONS.

                                 MR. SALKA:  OKAY.  ON -- ON THIS TASK FORCE, I

                    NOTICED YOU HAVE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE BUREAU OF SOCIAL JUSTICE,

                    BUT I DON'T NOTICE -- I DIDN'T NOTICE IF THERE'S ANY MEMBERS THAT WOULD

                    BE ABLE TO ADD TO THE DISCUSSION FROM LIKE CLERGY, ADOPTION SERVICES,

                    ANY KIND OF ETHICAL PANEL OR ANY KIND OF INPUT FROM SOMEONE WHO

                    COULD GIVE MORE OF A -- OF AN ETHICAL POINT ON -- ON -- ON THIS ON SOME

                    OF THE DATA?

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, I THINK THAT MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS

                    HAVE A CODE OF ETHICS.  SO TO SAY THERE'S NOBODY WHO HAS ANY ETHICAL

                    BACKGROUND IS A -- IS -- IS PERHAPS INCORRECT.

                                 MR. SALKA:  OR -- WELL, THE OTHER TWO GIVEN THAT

                    ADOPTION SERVICES AND CLERGY, BECAUSE THIS SOMETIMES IS CRITICAL

                    DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE BY THE WOMAN AND SOMETIMES IT'S GOOD TO HAVE

                    INPUT FROM ALL -- ALL ASPECTS OF HOW THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT THEIR LIVES.

                                 MS. GLICK:  WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I DON'T THINK THAT

                    THE CLERGY, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE A VERY DIVERSE STATE WITH LOTS

                    OF DIFFERENT RELIGIONS SO I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE VERY COMPLICATED TO

                    CHOOSE ONE OR 12 PEOPLE TO REPRESENT THE CLERGY.

                                 MR. SALKA:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU.  THANK

                    YOU, MS. GLICK.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                         109



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. SALKA:  WHAT WE'RE SEEING NATIONWIDE, AND I

                    WOULD THINK THAT THE SAME KIND OF NUMBERS PERTAIN TO NEW YORK STATE

                    ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THAT AS YOU SEE MORE AND MORE OPINION OF THE

                    PUBLIC THAT IS PRO-LIFE OR ANTI-ABORTION.  AND I'M AFRAID THAT THESE TYPES

                    OF LEGISLATIONS ARE IN RESPONSE TO THAT THREAT, THAT WHAT THEY'VE BEEN --

                    WHAT THEY'VE BEEN PRIORITIZED OR WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO BY

                    ALLOWING THIS TO BE EASIER AND EASIER TO GET AN ABORTION IS STARTING TO BE

                    CONTRARY TO PUBLIC OPINION.  SO I SUSPECT THAT WE'RE GOING TO START

                    SEEING MORE AND MORE HARASSMENT OF THESE LIMITED PREGNANCY CENTERS.

                    MY WIFE VOLUNTEERED AT ONE, YOU KNOW, GRANTED, THEY DIDN'T DISCUSS

                    ABORTION THAT MUCH BUT THEY DID AN ULTRASOUND AND MANY, MANY TIMES

                    THERE WERE PROFESSIONALS ON STAFF AS VOLUNTEERS, SOME PAID, AND THEY

                    WERE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE IF THERE WAS, IN FACT, AN ISSUE OR A PROBLEM WITH

                    A WOMAN'S PREGNANCY, SOMETIMES VERY EARLY IN STAGE OF THAT

                    PREGNANCY.

                                 SO I AGREE THAT HEALTH CARE FOR WOMEN, ESPECIALLY POOR

                    WOMEN, IS EMBARRASSING IN NEW YORK STATE.  AND I DON'T NECESSARILY

                    AGREE THAT MR. GOTTFRIED'S BILL IS GOING TO DO IT -- ADDRESS THAT, BUT AT

                    ANY RATE I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS THAT WE HAVE SOME

                    CONCERN FROM THE PRO-ABORTION COMMUNITY THAT THE PUBLIC IS STARTING TO

                    CHANGE THEIR MIND ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY THINK THAT'S AN ACCEPTABLE

                    PRACTICE.  AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO START SEEING MORE AND MORE OF

                    THESE TYPES OF -- OF HARASSMENT OF -- AND THE OPPORTUNITY OR THE -- THE

                    EFFORT TO -- TO SHUT THEM DOWN.  SO THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THANK YOU

                                         110



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    FOR THE TIME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 5499.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

                    IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE REASONS THAT

                    HAVE BEEN CITED.  THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY FREE TO VOTE IN

                    FAVOR ON THE FLOOR OR BY CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK

                    YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

                    THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE COLLEAGUES THAT WOULD

                    DECIDE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE, THEIR VOTE WILL BE PROPERLY RECORDED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                         111



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MS. LUNSFORD TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. LUNSFORD:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M

                    FASCINATED BY THE CONCERN HELD BY SOME PEOPLE IN THIS CHAMBER OVER A

                    STUDY, OVER FINDING OUT OBJECTIVE INFORMATION SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND

                    HOW SOME OF THESE CRISIS PREGNANCY CENTERS ARE WORKING.  WHO'S

                    IMPACTED BY THEM?  WHAT SORT OF SERVICES ARE BEING PROVIDED?  ARE

                    THEY ALL SAME?  ARE THEY ALL DIFFERENT?  WHAT IS IT THAT WE'RE SO WORRIED

                    ABOUT DISCOVERING IN A STUDY?  WE JUST DEBATED A STUDY FOR LIKE AN

                    HOUR.  WE JUST WANT TO LEARN INFORMATION.  WE SAW THIS ON GUN

                    VIOLENCE, AS WELL.  WHY ARE PEOPLE SO WORRIED ABOUT LEARNING ABOUT A

                    TOPIC?  IS IT THAT WE'RE CONCERNED WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DISCOVER?

                    BECAUSE IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE NEED THE STUDY ALL THE MORE.

                                 I LOOK AT SOME OF THESE CENTERS, THERE ARE SOME IN

                    ROCHESTER, AND BOY, DO THOSE WEBSITES LOOK LIKE HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS.

                    I WAS SHOCKED TO DISCOVER THAT ONE OF THEM WASN'T AN ABORTION PROVIDER

                    BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE MARKETING WORKS.  IF I WAS A HEALTH CARE CLINIC

                    AND PURPORTED TO PROVIDE A MEDICAL SERVICE FOR, LET'S SAY, DIABETES AND

                    SOMEONE WALKED IN LOOKING FOR A MEDICAL SERVICE AND I PROVIDED THEM

                    RELIGIOUS COUNSELING, I THINK THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WOULD HAVE

                    SOME KIND OF CONCERN ABOUT THAT.  SO I'M VERY INTERESTED TO DISCOVER

                    WHAT THIS STUDY WILL SHOW US, AND AFTER WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION

                    WHERE WE MAY DISCOVER THERE'S NO PROBLEM AT ALL, THEN WE CAN HAVE

                    THIS BROADER DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT THE NEEDS ARE OF THE PEOPLE OF NEW

                    YORK STATE.  I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. LUNSFORD IN THE

                                         112



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    YOU KNOW, PRIOR TO JOINING THIS ESTEEMED BODY, I SERVED AS THE

                    EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL LATINA INSTITUTE FOR REPRODUCTIVE

                    JUSTICE, AND I SPENT THE LAST 13 YEARS FIGHTING FOR HEALTH, DIGNITY, AND

                    JUSTICE FOR LATINAS, THEIR FAMILIES, AND THEIR COMMUNITIES.  AND I

                    WORKED TO ENSURE THAT EACH PERSON HAS ACCESS TO THE REPRODUCTIVE

                    HEALTH CARE THEY NEED TO DETERMINE IF, WHEN, AND HOW TO CREATE THE

                    FAMILIES THEY WISHED TO CREATE, AND THEN TO RAISE THOSE FAMILIES WITH

                    DIGNITY.  WORKING ACROSS THE COUNTRY, I'VE SEEN THE HARMS OF POLICIES

                    THAT RESTRICT ACCESS TO THE FULL SPECTRUM OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE,

                    INCLUDING ABSTINENCE ONLY EDUCATION THAT PERPETUATES LIES AND HARMFUL

                    STIGMAS ABOUT WOMEN AND LGBTQ COMMUNITIES, TO THE PROLIFERATION

                    OF THESE FAKE CLINICS THAT PROVIDE INACCURATE, MISLEADING AND

                    STIGMATIZING INFORMATION ABOUT ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION.  I HAVE

                    WITNESSED WHAT THE DENIAL OF ABORTION CARE THAT OFTEN FORCES VULNERABLE

                    IMMIGRANTS, WORKING-CLASS, AND LOW-INCOME COMMUNITIES INTO

                    SELF-MANAGING THEIR CARE AS OPPOSED TO BEING ABLE TO ACCESS A DOCTOR

                    FOR AN ABORTION.

                                 THESE POLICIES DON'T PREVENT ABORTION, IT JUST FORCES

                    THE PROCEDURE UNDERGROUND, SOMETIMES AT THE COST OF THE LIFE OF THE

                    PREGNANT PERSON.  THEY ARE ROOTED IN SEXISM, RACISM, HOMOPHOBIA,

                    XENOPHOBIA, NOT SCIENCE AND NOT HEALTH CARE.  I'M SO PROUD OF THE

                    SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS BILL FORWARD.  THIS BILL WOULD SIMPLY

                                         113



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    AUTHORIZE THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A STUDY REGARDING

                    THE HEALTH AND RESOURCES NEEDED FOR PREGNANT PEOPLE, AS WELL AS THE

                    POTENTIAL NEGATIVE IMPACTS OF PRACTICES BY THESE UNLICENSED FACILITIES,

                    WHICH I WILL CALL FAKE CLINICS.  IT IS UNCONSCIONABLE THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY

                    HAVING THIS DEBATE HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.  SO WE MUST UNDERSTAND

                    THE HARM, WE MUST ADDRESS THE HARM, AND WE MUST ENSURE THAT ANY

                    PREGNANT NEW YORKER CAN GET ACCESS TO THE HEALTH CARE THAT THEY NEED

                    WITHOUT STIGMA, WITHOUT SHAME, OR WITHOUT COERCION.  I PROUDLY VOTE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. SIMON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WANT TO

                    COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THIS BILL.  THIS IS A BILL THAT WILL ALLOW US TO

                    STUDY AND GATHER DATA SO WE CAN MAKE EVIDENCE-BASED DECISIONS.

                    THERE ARE MANY, MANY CRISIS PREGNANCY CENTERS THAT REALLY MARKET

                    THEMSELVES TO LOOK LIKE SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT.  THEY ARE FREE TO BE

                    WHAT THEY ARE, BUT THEY ARE -- SHOULD NOT BE FREE TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE

                    THEY ARE SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT.  IT IS VERY BASIC PRINCIPLE ABOUT TRUTH

                    IN ADVERTISING.  IF YOU ARE A MEDICAL FACILITY AND YOU PROVIDE X, Y OR Z

                    SERVICES, THAT'S GREAT.  BUT IF YOU ARE NOT, YOU SHOULD NOT PROMOTE

                    YOURSELVES AS IF YOU ARE A MEDICAL FACILITY, AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE

                    HEARING TOO MUCH ABOUT.  THIS CERTAINLY EXISTS IN MY DISTRICT, AS WELL,

                    AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS GATHER DATA TO KNOW WHETHER IT'S OUR

                    ANECDOTAL REPORTS ARE AS -- COMPLETE, OR THAT WE KNOW WHETHER THIS IS A

                                         114



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    BIG PROBLEM OR A SMALL PROBLEM OR A MIDDLE-SIZED PROBLEM.  BUT WE DO

                    KNOW IT'S A PROBLEM WHEN FACILITIES ARE OUT THERE PROMOTING

                    THEMSELVES AS SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT.  THAT IS ALL THIS BILL SEEKS TO DO

                    AND I'M VERY PLEASED TO BE ABLE VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SIMON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. GLICK:  WELL, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE BILL

                    IS PRETTY SIMPLE.  IT'S REALLY ABOUT TO IDENTIFY WHAT THE DIMENSIONS OF

                    THE ISSUE ARE.  ANECDOTALLY, I HAVE HEARD FROM YOUNG WOMEN WHO FELT

                    SNOOKERED; THAT'S A TECHNICAL LEGISLATIVE TERM.  THEY WENT INTO A FACILITY

                    AND IT LOOKED LIKE, IT SMELLED LIKE, IT (INAUDIBLE) LIKE, IT SOUNDED LIKE,

                    BUT WHEN THEY GOT THERE AND IT TURNED OUT THEY WERE PREGNANT, THERE

                    WAS A VERY HARD SELL THAT THEY SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT SEEK AN ABORTION.

                                 SO I THINK IT VERY INTERESTING THAT THERE'S ALL OF THIS

                    CONCERN THAT THERE BE ALL OF THE OPTIONS WHEN, IN FACT, THESE CLINICS,

                    THESE FAKE CLINICS, REALLY ARE TARGETED ON PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM

                    HAVING AN ABORTION.  BUT I ALSO THINK THAT IT DELAYS CONFUSED YOUNGSTERS

                    WHO MIGHT WANT TO CONTINUE A PREGNANCY FROM SEEKING MEDICAL

                    ATTENTION WHEN THAT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT FOR THEM.  YOUNG

                    WOMEN, IMMIGRANT WOMEN, WOMEN WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE LOOK FOR

                    A CHEAP ANSWER AND WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS YOU CAN GET SERVICES FOR FREE,

                    THEY ARE ATTRACTED THERE.  AND AS COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID, SOME OF THE

                    ADVERTISING IS SOMEWHAT MISLEADING, IF NOT OVERLY SO.

                                 AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS SHOCKING

                                         115



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    TO THINK THAT THERE WAS A RAISING THE FACT THAT MAYBE SOME OF THESE

                    CENTERS MIGHT HAVE SOME HARASSMENT WHEN, IN FACT, FOR AS LONG AS I

                    HAVE BEEN AN ADULT, ABORTION CLINICS CONSTANTLY HAVE PEOPLE HARASSING

                    PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE A DECISION ABOUT THEIR OWN PRIVATE HEALTH CARE.

                    I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANYBODY BEING HARASSED WHETHER THEY'RE GOING INTO

                    A LIMITED PREGNANCY CENTER OR WHETHER THEY'RE GOING INTO AN ABORTION

                    CLINIC.  WE HAVE TOO MUCH OF THAT BULLY BOY NONSENSE GOING ON ACROSS

                    THE COUNTRY IN TOO MANY WAYS, WHETHER IT'S A SCHOOL BOARD OR

                    OTHERWISE.  I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY OF THESE CENTERS HARASSED, BUT I

                    THINK PEOPLE HAVE TO STEP UP AND SAY WE SHOULD KNOW WHAT THE

                    DYNAMICS OF THE PROBLEM ARE.  THE STUDY IS A STUDY IS A STUDY.  I

                    WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 NO, MR. GOODELL, IT SEEMS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    YOU CALL ON MR. NORRIS FOR AN IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. NORRIS FOR AN

                    IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT.

                                 MR. NORRIS.

                                 MR. NORRIS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THERE IS A

                                         116



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    NEED FOR AN IMMEDIATE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IN THE PARLOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  IMMEDIATE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IN THE PARLOR.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

                    PLEASE PUT THE HOUSE AT EASE, AND I WOULD WANT TO ADVISE MEMBERS THAT

                    WHILE WE'RE AT EASE THERE PROBABLY WILL BE A NEED FOR A WAYS AND

                    MEANS AND A RULES COMMITTEE MEETING, SO PLEASE BE ADVISED AND LOOK

                    FORWARD TO RETURN AT THE CALL OF THE SPEAKER.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE STANDS AT

                    EASE.  WAYS AND MEANS AND RULES TO FOLLOW AS WE COME BACK.  THANK

                    YOU SO VERY MUCH.

                                 (WHEREUPON, THE ASSEMBLY STOOD AT EASE.)

                                              *     *     *     *     *

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  COLLEAGUES, YOU ALL HAVE ON YOUR DESK AN A-CALENDER.  I

                    WOULD ASK THAT YOU WOULD --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WE WILL NOW GO RIGHT TO RULES REPORT NO. 69 ON THAT

                    CALENDAR AND WE WILL TAKE IT UP ON DEBATE BY MS. WEINSTEIN.

                                         117



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PAGE 3, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 69, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09766, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 69, WEINSTEIN.  AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE SUPPORT OF

                    GOVERNMENT; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON

                    EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    WEINSTEIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK, THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                 THE CLERK:  I HEREBY CERTIFY TO AN IMMEDIATE VOTE,

                    KATHY HOCHUL, GOVERNOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA.

                                 AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MS. WEINSTEIN.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  SO THIS BILL WOULD PROVIDE $359.5

                    MILLION IN APPROPRIATION AUTHORITY FOR PAYROLL, CONTRACTS, LIABILITIES, AND

                    FEDERAL OR STATE ASSISTANCE OF VARIOUS STATE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES,

                    AS WELL AS THE GOVERNOR, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, COMPTROLLER AND

                    ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE PERIOD FROM APRIL 1ST THROUGH APRIL 7TH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WEINSTEIN

                    YIELDS, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  SO AS YOU I THOUGHT YOU WOULD, YOU

                                         118



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    COVERED MY FIRST TWO QUESTIONS IN YOUR EXPLANATION WHICH WAS THE

                    PERIOD THAT THIS COVERS AND THE APPROPRIATION AUTHORITY, SO I JUST HAVE

                    TWO OTHERS.  SO CAN YOU GIVE US SOME UPDATE AS TO WHERE THINGS STAND

                    AND WHEN WE MAY SEE SOME FINAL BUDGET BILLS?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE PROCEEDING

                    WELL AND I BELIEVE THAT WE WILL IN THE NEXT -- OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS,

                    BILLS WILL BE PRINTED AND WE WILL BE IN THIS CHAMBER VOTING.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND THIS PROVIDES FINANCING THROUGH

                    APRIL 7TH, AS YOU SAID, SO WE BELIEVE WE WILL COMPLETE A BUDGET BY

                    APRIL 7TH, OR BY THE END OF APRIL 7TH?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  THAT IS -- THAT IS THE PLAN AS OF

                    NOW; YES, CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  JUST QUICKLY, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT BILL.

                    CERTAINLY WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY IN OUR STATE WORKFORCE TO NOT GET A

                    PAYCHECK OR MISS A PAYCHECK BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, A DEADLOCK HERE.

                    BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT WE'RE IN A STATE RULED BY A SINGLE PARTY, YET

                    TWO YEARS IN A ROW WE'VE HAD TO DO A BUDGET EXTENDER.  WE HAVE

                    PEOPLE WHO HAVE WORKED TIRELESSLY IN ALL OF OUR AGENCIES, IN OUR HEALTH

                    CARE WORKFORCE, OUR MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WHOSE PAYCHECKS

                    WERE PUT IN JEOPARDY BY THE FACT THAT WE'RE HERE HAVING TO DO AN

                    EXTENDER, AND I REALLY JUST DON'T THINK THIS IS THE WAY WE SHOULD OPERATE

                    AS A GOVERNMENT AND, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE ANY OTHER ENTITY OR

                                         119



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    BUSINESS COULD GET AWAY WITH OPERATING IN THIS MANNER.

                                 AND JUST TO POINT OUT, AS MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES

                    KNOW, WE HAVE SCHOOL DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT OUR STATE.  WHEN THEY FILE

                    SOMETHING LATE, WE PENALIZE THEM.  WE'VE TRIED TO MAKE THAT RIGHT OVER

                    THE YEARS, HOPEFULLY WE'LL DO THAT IN THIS BUDGET, BUT THEY'VE GOTTEN

                    PENALIZED.  WE HAVE THE LUXURY RIGHT NOW OF HAVING BUDGET SURPLUSES,

                    WHICH IS GREAT, AND WE'RE IN A BETTER POSITION THAN WE HAVE BEEN IN THE

                    PAST, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE DECISIONS AND WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.

                                 AND LASTLY, I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S

                    5:13, SO NOT TOO BAD, BUT WE'VE KNOWN SINCE LAST WEEK AND, REALLY, FOR

                    WEEKS THAT WE HAD A BUDGET PARTY EXTENDER IN PLACE BY 4 P.M. TODAY, SO

                    I AM CERTAINLY DISAPPOINTED THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE THIS BILL OFFICIALLY

                    INTRODUCED REALLY UNTIL A COUPLE OF HOURS AGO.  IT CERTAINLY MAKES THE

                    NEW GOVERNOR LOOK LIKE THE OLD GOVERNOR WHEN WE OPERATE IN THIS

                    MANNER.

                                 ALL THAT BEING SAID, LIKE I SAID, THIS NEEDS TO BE

                    ENACTED SO THAT WE TAKE CARE OF OUR STATE WORKFORCE WHO SERVE THE

                    PUBLIC ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS, SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, BUT

                    I HOPE THAT BY THE TIME THIS RUNS OUT AT THE END OF THE DAY ON APRIL 7TH,

                    WE WILL HAVE A FULL AND COMPLETE BUDGET THAT MEETS THE NEED OF NEW

                    YORKERS.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MR. RA.

                                 MR. WALCZYK.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR BE SO KIND TO YIELD FOR SOME --

                                         120



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WEINSTEIN, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WEINSTEIN

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  THANK YOU.  THROUGH YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, WHEN WAS THE NEW YORK STATE BUDGET DUE?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  THE FISCAL YEAR ENDED ON MARCH

                    31ST.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  ON MARCH 31ST, AND I NOTICED THAT

                    WE ADJOURNED, MR. SPEAKER, BEFORE MIDNIGHT ON THE 31ST, ACTUALLY EARLY

                    IN THE AFTERNOON WITH ABOUT 11 HOURS TO SPARE WE ALL LEFT THIS CHAMBER.

                    THROUGH YOU, MR. SPEAKER, WHY IS THE BUDGET LATE AT THIS POINT?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  THERE ARE NEGOTIATIONS THAT ARE

                    TAKING PLACE AND THINGS WERE GETTING CLOSE ON THE 31ST; WE WEREN'T

                    THERE YET.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  THROUGH YOU, MR. SPEAKER --

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  AND WE'RE NOT QUITE THERE YET

                    EITHER, BUT WE'RE JUST ABOUT.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  I, AS RANKER ON THE HIGHER

                    EDUCATION COMMITTEE AND AN ACTIVE MEMBER IN THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY, I

                    PARTICIPATED IN EVERY BUDGET HEARING THAT I WAS INVITED TO, MANY OF

                    THEM WITH GREAT DIALOGUE WITH YOU, MADAM CHAIR.  HOW MANY PUBLIC

                    HEARINGS DID WE HAVE BETWEEN MARCH 31ST AND TODAY?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  AS -- AS -- AS YOU KNOW, THE

                                         121



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    BUDGET HEARINGS STARTED THE WEEK AFTER THE GOVERNOR PRESENTED HER

                    BUDGET.  WE HAD 13 HEARINGS.  YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU SAT THROUGH A LARGE

                    NUMBER OF THEM.  THEY WERE ON AVERAGE TEN TO 12 HOURS EACH, SO WE

                    HAD MORE THAN 100 HOURS OF HEARINGS ON THE BUDGET.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  I'M SORRY, I DON'T THINK I HEARD AN

                    ANSWER TO MY QUESTION THERE.  THROUGH YOU, MR. SPEAKER, I ASKED HOW

                    MANY PUBLIC HEARINGS DID WE HAVE ON THE BUDGET BETWEEN MARCH 31ST

                    AT MIDNIGHT, THE DEADLINE, AND TODAY?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  WE DIDN'T HAVE -- HAVE HEARINGS

                    THEN BECAUSE WE HELD THE HEARINGS ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION AND

                    THE LEGISLATIVE REQUIREMENTS AFTER THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET IS PRESENTED.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  HOW MANY PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE

                    SCHEDULED BETWEEN -- AND THIS IS, FOR THE RECORD, THIS IS A BILL THAT WILL

                    EXTEND THE PERIOD FROM APRIL 1ST, THE DEADLINE, TO APRIL 7TH, SO TO KICK

                    IT OUT A WEEK.  HOW MANY PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE SCHEDULED BETWEEN NOW,

                    APRIL 4TH, AND APRIL 7TH, SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN KNOW WHAT'S BEING

                    NEGOTIATED INTO THIS BUDGET?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  WELL, THERE AREN'T HEARINGS

                    SCHEDULED BECAUSE NOW WE'RE HAVING THE NEGOTIATIONS TO, BASED ON --

                    IN LARGE PART, BASED ON WHAT WE HEARD AT THOSE HEARINGS THAT WE DID

                    HAVE IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  THROUGH YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND I

                    JUST WONDER, ONE FINAL INDULGENCE, I NOTICE THAT A NUMBER OF MAJOR

                    ISSUES, WHETHER IT BE ON BAIL REFORM IN THE GOVERNOR'S LEAKED TEN POINTS

                    ON BAIL REFORM, OR WHETHER IT BE ON A TAXPAYER-FUNDED STADIUM HAVE

                                         122



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    BEEN PUT OUT IN THE PUBLIC REALM AS BUDGET NEGOTIATION PIECES.  I WAS

                    WONDERING AT WHAT POINT IS THE PUBLIC GOING TO HEAR ABOUT THOSE

                    NEGOTIATIONS BEFORE WE VOTE ON A FINAL BUDGET?  WHEN WILL THEIR INPUT

                    BE ALLOWED IN THIS PROCESS?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  WE -- WE HAVE HAD, AS I SAID, WE

                    HAVE HAD THE PUBLIC INPUT DURING THE HEARINGS.  SOME OF THE COMMENTS

                    WERE -- WELL, CERTAINLY ALL THE COMMENTS WILL HELP GUIDE US AS WE

                    PREPARE OUR FINAL BUDGET, AND THEY WILL -- THERE WILL BE OPPORTUNITY

                    ONCE THE BILLS ARE PRINTED FOR PEOPLE TO SEE, BUT CERTAINLY, AS YOU SAY,

                    THERE HAVE BEEN SOME ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE NEWS IN THE PUBLIC

                    DOMAIN, AND I'M SURE MANY OF OUR COLLEAGUES HAVE HEARD FROM OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS ABOUT THOSE ISSUES THAT ARE REPORTED IN THE NEWS.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, I'LL GO ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  NEW YORKERS OBVIOUSLY DESERVE

                    AN ON-TIME BUDGET.  THEY DESERVE A BUDGET WHERE ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT

                    ARE LEADING THE PROCESS PROBABLY SHOULD INFORM THEM ABOUT THE MAJOR

                    ISSUES THAT THEY'RE NEGOTIATING AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO TURN TO TWITTER TO

                    FIND OUT WHAT THE LATEST IN THE BUDGET PROCESS IS.  THEY DESERVE A

                    BUDGET, MR. SPEAKER, THAT IS NEGOTIATED IN GOOD FAITH, HAS A PUBLIC,

                    OPEN PROCESS AS OUTLINED IN THE CONSTITUTION.  THEY DON'T DESERVE

                    HAVING A LEGISLATURE NEGOTIATE IN SECRET WITH THREE PERSONS AND ONE

                    PARTY IN A ROOM, A BUDGET THAT WAS DUE LAST WEEK AND WE ACTUALLY, IF

                    YOU REMEMBER, MR. SPEAKER, I GAVE THEM ACCOLADES BECAUSE AT THE

                                         123



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    BEGINNING OF LAST WEEK, THERE WAS A BILL THAT WAS BROUGHT TO THE

                    CHAMBER FLOOR AND IT WAS THE FIRST BUDGET BILL, IT WAS THE DEBT SERVICE

                    BILL.  WE TALKED ABOUT PAYING THE MINIMUM ON OUR CREDIT CARD BILL AS

                    NEW YORK STATE, AND IT ACTUALLY HAD ENOUGH AGE IN THIS CHAMBER FOR

                    THE PUBLIC TO SEE IT, FOR US TO DISCUSS IT AND DIGEST IT, AND IT WAS BROUGHT

                    TO THIS CHAMBER FLOOR WITHOUT A MESSAGE OF NECESSITY OF THE GOVERNOR

                    SO IT DIDN'T SUBVERT EVEN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS, WHICH WAS A GOOD

                    THING.  AND THEN WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE LAST WEEK?  WELL, WE SHUT

                    DOWN EARLY BEFORE THE BUDGET DEADLINE, 11 HOURS BEFORE THE BUDGET

                    DEADLINE WE GAVELED OUT IN THIS CHAMBER, WE QUIT.  THEY SENT US

                    HOME.  THEY SAID, NO, WE'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO TRY FOR AN ON-TIME

                    BUDGET ANYMORE, AND THEN WE STAND HERE TODAY AFTER COMING BACK, WE

                    DEBATE A NUMBER OF BILLS THAT HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE

                    MOST PRESSING ISSUE RIGHT NOW WHICH IS THIS BUDGET, WHICH IS ALREADY

                    BEYOND ITS DEADLINE.  AND THE NEXT BUDGET BILL THAT WE TAKE UP IS ONE TO

                    KICK THE BUDGETARY CAN DOWN THE ROAD, TO SAY, WELL, WE HAVEN'T MADE

                    ENOUGH DECISIONS BEHIND THE PUBLIC'S BACK YET SO WE CAN'T DELIVER A

                    BUDGET TO YOU TODAY.

                                 SO WE'RE PASSING THIS WITH A MESSAGE OF NECESSITY

                    FROM THE GOVERNOR.  I WILL GIVE ACCOLADES BECAUSE AT 5:20 P.M., AT LEAST

                    NEW YORKERS ARE STILL AWAKE TODAY TO HEAR THIS CONVERSATION.  I HOPE

                    THAT THAT AT LEAST CONTINUES.  I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME BUDGET BILLS WITH

                    ENOUGH AGE SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN DIGEST THEM.  IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL

                    IF IN THE SPIRIT OF THE NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION THESE BILLS ALSO HAD

                    ENOUGH PUBLIC INPUT SO THAT THE PUBLIC AND THE LEGISLATORS THAT

                                         124



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    REPRESENT THEM IN BOTH THE SENATE AND THE ASSEMBLY HAVE THE

                    OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT AND ADJUST, BUT I UNDERSTAND WE'RE BEYOND

                    THAT.  IT'S APRIL 4TH NOW, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 SO I WON'T TAKE UP ANY MORE TIME IN THIS CHAMBER,

                    BUT I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO THINK ABOUT THIS LONG AND HARD AND I WANT

                    YOU TO THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY MISS THE NEXT DEADLINE,

                    WHICH THEY HAVE GIVEN THEMSELVES UNTIL APRIL 7TH.  HOW DO YOU VOTE

                    ON THAT BILL?  DO WE ALSO PLAN TO KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD?  AND

                    OBVIOUSLY, MR. SPEAKER, I WANT TO SEE NEW YORKERS GET PAID.  WE DID

                    THE DEBT SERVICE BILL BEFORE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO PAY THE MINIMUM

                    ON OUR CREDIT CARD AND NOW WE'RE TAKING UP THIS BILL TODAY TO SAY, HEY,

                    WE SHOULDN'T STOP PAYROLL, AND I KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO PASS AND

                    THAT'S A GOOD THING BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO SEE EMPLOYEES IN NEW

                    YORK STATE MISS THEIR PAYROLL.  IT'S ALSO INCLUDING A COUPLE OF BILLS THAT

                    NEW YORK STATE -- ARE COMING DUE FOR NEW YORK STATE IN THE NEXT

                    COUPLE OF WEEKS, WHETHER IT BE IN THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH OR

                    OPWDD, AND WE SHOULD PAY OUR BILLS.  BUT THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS

                    WHEN THE NEXT EXTENDER COMES AND WHAT THAT DOES TO THE PROCESS AND

                    THE LACK OF OPENNESS AND TRANSPARENCY WHEN A GOVERNOR WHO IS THE

                    SAME PARTY AS BOTH LEGISLATIVE LEADERS TOOK OFFICE AND SAID, I AM

                    GOING TO BE THE MOST TRANSPARENT, AND WE HAVEN'T HAD A PUBLIC HEARING

                    IN WEEKS ABOUT WHAT'S BEING NEGOTIATED IN SECRET IN THIS BUDGET.

                                 WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I'LL CONCLUDE MY COMMENTS.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                         125



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MR. LAWLER.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WEINSTEIN, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.  WHEN

                    SESSION WAS ADJOURNED ON THE 31ST, DID YOU REMAIN IN ALBANY THROUGH

                    THE WEEKEND INTO TODAY TO NEGOTIATE, OR DID YOU GO BACK TO YOUR

                    DISTRICT?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  THE SPEAKER AND OUR STAFF WAS

                    HERE.  I -- THEY HAVE THIS MIRACULOUS THING CALLED A TELEPHONE AND

                    COMPUTER SO I WAS AVAILABLE AND COMMUNICATED WITH THE STAFF

                    THROUGHOUT THAT -- THAT TIME PERIOD.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY, I WAS JUST CURIOUS.  IT'S NOT A

                    PROBLEM ABOUT TELECOMMUNICATION, APPARENTLY THE GOVERNOR'S STAFF ALL

                    HAD COVID SO I'M SURE THEY WERE NOT DOING IT IN PERSON, SO THAT'S FINE.

                    WHY DO YOU THINK THERE'S BEEN SO LITTLE TRANSPARENCY AROUND THIS

                    BUDGET?  WHEN THE GOVERNOR TOOK OFFICE, SHE PROMISED A NEW ERA OF

                    TRANSPARENCY.  SHE SAID SHE WOULD INFORM THE PUBLIC OF WHAT'S GOING

                    ON.  TODAY SHE HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN TEN DAYS

                    DURING THESE SECRET BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS.  WHY -- ARE YOU DISAPPOINTED

                    BY THE LACK OF TRANSPARENCY IN THIS PROCESS?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  AS I SAID TO MR. WALCZYK, AND

                    YOU WERE IN MANY OF THE BUDGET HEARINGS ALSO, WE HAD OVER 100 HOURS

                                         126



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    OF BUDGET HEARINGS WHERE WE GOT TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS

                    AGENCIES.  AS TO THE AGENCIES, AS TO THE NEEDS OF THE PUBLIC ON

                    COMMENTING ON THE BUDGET AND WE ARE TAKING, AS WE DO EVERY YEAR,

                    TAKING THAT INFORMATION AND WORKING ON CRAFTING A BUDGET THAT

                    ADDRESSES THE NEEDS OF NEW YORKERS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WELL, ACCORDING TO THE SPEAKER, PART

                    OF THE REASON THAT THE BUDGET IS DELAYED IS BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR TRIED

                    TO INTERJECT POLICY INTO THE FINAL WEEKS OF BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS.  SO

                    OBVIOUSLY, AS MY COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT, THERE'S BEEN NO HEARINGS SINCE

                    THE GOVERNOR INTERJECTED THE POLICY PROPOSALS INTO THE BUDGET.  SO

                    THAT'S WHY THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT THIS LACK OF TRANSPARENCY BECAUSE SO

                    MANY OF THE THINGS THAT ARE NOW BEING NEGOTIATED OR THAT HAVE CAUSED

                    THIS BUDGET TO BE LATE WERE NOT DISCUSSED IN THOSE BUDGET HEARINGS;

                    THEY HAVE SINCE BEEN INTRODUCED.  SO I JUST -- I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT

                    LACK OF TRANSPARENCY AND I WONDER IF YOU SHARE THAT CONCERN.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  I DO NOT.  THE -- THAT'S A NORMAL

                    PROCESS THAT THERE ARE ISSUES THAT ARISE AFTER THE BUDGET IS PRESENTED AND

                    THE -- SINCE YOU WERE AT THE BUDGET HEARINGS YOU KNOW THAT THERE WERE

                    ISSUES THAT CAME UP THAT WEREN'T IN THE BUDGET, ALSO AND WHAT --

                    INCLUDING CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUES THAT WEREN'T THERE.  SO THERE ACTUALLY

                    WAS A LOT OF PUBLIC COMMENT.  AND AS I MENTIONED, THE ISSUES HAVE ALL

                    BEEN IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN IN TERMS OF NEWS MEDIA AND MANY -- MOST

                    OF US, I'M SURE, HAVE HEARD FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS IN SUPPORT OR

                    OPPOSITION TO THOSE VARIOUS PROPOSALS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WHEN WE VOTED ON THE ASSEMBLY

                                         127



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    ONE-HOUSE RESOLUTION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HIGHLIGHTED IS THAT

                    THERE WAS VERY LITTLE POLICY IN THE ONE-HOUSE RESOLUTION AND THAT, YOU

                    KNOW, IT WAS REALLY DOLLARS AND CENTS.  DO YOU EXPECT POLICY TO BE IN

                    THE FINAL BUDGET?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  THERE PROBABLY, AND AS THERE

                    HAVE BEEN OVER THE YEARS, SOME AMOUNT OF POLICY, BUT I WOULD DARE SAY

                    THAT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF POLICY ISSUES WILL NOT BE -- THAT

                    HAVE BEEN PUT FORWARD WILL NOT BE IN -- IN THE BUDGET.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  AS THE CHAIR OF WAYS AND MEANS,

                    ARE YOU DISAPPOINTED THAT THERE WILL BE POLICY IN THE BUDGET?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  I THINK THAT AT TIMES A BUDGET IS A

                    NEGOTIATION AND ALL SIDES -- SOMETIMES YOU GET YOUR IDEAL SITUATION AND

                    SOMETIMES -- AND COMPROMISE IS PART OF IT.  I THINK THERE ARE IMPORTANT

                    ISSUES WITH TIMING THAT WE DO NEED TO ADDRESS NOW.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WHAT -- WHAT TIME WAS THIS BUDGET

                    EXTENDER RELEASED TODAY?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  IT WAS EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON.

                    THERE WAS AN ERROR IN THE ORIGINAL DRAFT, SO IT TOOK A LITTLE LONGER THAN

                    WE HAD ANTICIPATED.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  AND AS WAS MENTIONED AT THE

                    BEGINNING, WE NEEDED A MESSAGE OF NECESSITY TO VOTE ON THIS RIGHT

                    NOW, CORRECT?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES, CORRECT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT WE

                    WILL NEED A MESSAGE OF NECESSITY TO VOTE ON THE REMAINDER OF THE

                                         128



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    BUDGET?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  IT MAY BE POSSIBLE, BUT WE WILL

                    HAVE TO SEE WHEN WE CAN GET FINAL AGREEMENT.  THERE'S JUST A FEW ITEMS

                    THAT -- SMALL ITEMS THAT ARE OUTSTANDING, AND THEN WE WILL BE ABLE TO

                    PRINT THE BUDGET, AND WE'LL DETERMINE WHEN WE WILL BE ABLE TO GO

                    FORWARD.  I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THE BUDGET.

                    AS I SAID, SINCE THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF PUBLIC DISCUSSION, I THINK THAT

                    NEW YORKERS WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS BUDGET AS SOON AS POSSIBLE ADOPTED

                    AND NOT HAVE IT -- US DRAG ON FOR DAYS TO WAIT TO AVOID HAVING A

                    MESSAGE OF NECESSITY.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WELL, CERTAINLY SINCE WE ARE ALREADY

                    LATE, YOU KNOW, THE SHIP SAILED AND SO -- AND SINCE THERE HAS BEEN A

                    TOTAL LACK OF TRANSPARENCY DURING THIS PERIOD AFTER THE HEARINGS AND

                    WHEN THE GOVERNOR INTRODUCED NEW POLICY AND THE SPEAKER SAID THAT

                    THAT WAS THE HANG-UP, DO YOU AGREE THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK, THE TAXPAYERS, DESERVE AT LEAST THREE DAYS TO REVIEW THE BUDGET

                    BILLS?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  WELL, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK AWHILE

                    TO FIGURE OUT -- TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE ACTUALLY HAD THE THREE-DAY

                    REQUIREMENT.  I THINK BEFORE YOU GOT HERE, AND I -- COLLEAGUES WHO

                    WERE HERE FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME WILL REMEMBER THE STACKS OF BILLS

                    THAT WE HAVE UNDER OUR DESK.  THE THREE YEAR -- THE THREE-DAY PERIOD TO

                    REVIEW BILLS WAS PRE-COMPUTER, AND PEOPLE HAD TO PHYSICALLY COME TO

                    THE LEGISLATURE, COME TO THE CAPITOL TO ACTUALLY READ THE BILLS.  NOW,

                    THE INSTANT WE HIT PRINT ON THE -- AND ACTUALLY, WE ALSO THEN WHEN WE

                                         129



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    MOVED AWAY FROM PEOPLE HAVING TO COME HERE, BILLS COULDN'T BE

                    PRINTED -- WE'D HAVE BILLS GO OUT TO THE PRINTERS AND IT COULD TAKE SIX

                    HOURS TO PRINT EDUCATION BILLS.  AND WE'D HIT SIT HERE, WE PASSED THAT

                    AND WE'D WAIT ANOTHER FIVE HOURS TO PASS ANOTHER BILL.  SO PEOPLE -- THE

                    PUBLIC AND LEGISLATORS ALSO WEREN'T ABLE TO SEE THE BILLS INSTANTLY.  NOW,

                    WHEN PRINT IS PUBLISHED, THE BILLS GET PUT ONLINE IMMEDIATELY.  THE

                    PUBLIC, LEGISLATORS, ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO CAN SEE THE BILLS

                    IMMEDIATELY.  SO I THINK THE ISSUE OF A GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE IN ORDER TO

                    PASS A BILL IS MUCH LESS OF AN ISSUE THAN IT HAD BEEN IN THE PAST.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THE ISSUE OF PRINTED BILLS CERTAINLY

                    PREDATED ME, BUT I DO RECALL PHOTOS WHEN THEY WERE ON THE DESK.

                    WOULD YOU SAY THEY WERE ABOUT YAY HIGH, OR SO, ON THE DESK?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  DO YOU THINK REGARDLESS OF

                    WHETHER IT'S ON THE COMPUTER, ON THE TABLET, OR PRINTED IN PERSON, DO

                    YOU THINK ANYONE CAN READ THE ENTIRETY OF THE BUDGET IN LESS THAN 24

                    HOURS?

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  THAT DEPENDS HOW FAST A READER

                    YOU ARE.  THE REALITY IS MOST OF THE BUDGET IS REPEATED -- IT'S REPEATED

                    YEAR TO YEAR.  YOU REALLY CAN SEE THE ADDS AND THE ADDITIONS PRETTY --

                    PRETTY EASILY WITH SOME PRACTICE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SOMEHOW THERE ALWAYS SEEM TO BE A

                    LITTLE CHANGE AND A COMMA HERE AND A PERIOD THERE AND A DASH OVER

                    THERE AND A NUMBER HERE, SO I DON'T KNOW.  IT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE FOR

                    ALL OF US TO DO OUR LEVEL BEST TO READ IT IN A TIMELY MANNER.

                                         130



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS A --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  YEAH, MORE OF A STATEMENT.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  YOU CAN ALSO ASK SOME OF OUR

                    COLLEAGUES HOW MANY OF THEM ACTUALLY READ SOME OF THE BILLS FROM

                    BEGINNING TO END THAT ARE MUCH SHORTER THAN THAT STACK.  I THINK PEOPLE

                    GO TO LOOK AT -- BOTH LEGISLATORS AND ADVOCATES GO TO LOOK AT THE PART OF

                    THE BUDGET THAT RELATES TO AN ISSUE THAT THEY CARE THE MOST ABOUT, AND I

                    DO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ADEQUATE TIME FOR PEOPLE TO DO THAT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  I CERTAINLY ACCEPT YOUR PREMISE THAT

                    MOST LEGISLATORS DO NOT READ THE BILLS.

                                 WITH THAT, I WILL GO ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU.  WE HAD NUMEROUS

                    BUDGET HEARINGS, AS THE ESTEEMED CHAIRWOMAN POINTED OUT.  THEY

                    WERE VERY INFORMATIVE AND I CERTAINLY COMMEND THE CHAIRWOMAN FOR

                    THE WORK THAT SHE DOES IN HELPING LEAD THOSE BUDGET HEARINGS.  I KNOW

                    SHE PUTS A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT INTO THAT AND I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE

                    THAT.

                                 BUT PART OF WHAT WE HEARD OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST

                    MANY WEEKS WAS THAT THIS WOULD NOT BE A BUDGET LACED WITH POLICY;

                    THIS WOULD BE A BUDGET ABOUT DOLLARS AND CENTS.  AND THEN THE

                    GOVERNOR INTRODUCED HER 10-POINT PLAN TO DEAL WITH SOME OF THE

                    CHALLENGES THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH, WITH RESPECT TO PUBLIC SAFETY,

                    BECAUSE APPARENTLY SHE JUST BECAME AWARE OF THESE CHALLENGES ONLY

                    TWO WEEKS AGO.  BUT SHE INTRODUCED THIS 10-POINT PLAN THAT WAS LEAKED

                                         131



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    TO THE PRESS AND THEN TOOK A FEW DAYS FOR HER TO ACTUALLY ACKNOWLEDGE

                    THAT IT WAS, INDEED, HER PLAN; IN FACT, HER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WAS

                    RUNNING AWAY FROM THE PRESS WHEN ASKED ABOUT IT.  SO IT'S REALLY QUITE

                    FASCINATING AND, YOU KNOW, THAT PROBABLY WASTED A FEW DAYS THAT COULD

                    HAVE HELPED SPEED UP THE BUDGET PROCESS AND THE NEGOTIATIONS.

                                 BUT THERE'S BEEN NO TRANSPARENCY AS TO WHERE THESE

                    NEGOTIATIONS STAND.  IT IS STILL THREE PEOPLE IN A ROOM.  IT IS STILL A

                    GOVERNOR, A SPEAKER, AND A MAJORITY LEADER NEGOTIATING A BUDGET

                    BEHIND CLOSE DOORS.  THERE'S A GREAT SONG BY THE WHO CALLED WON'T

                    GET FOOLED AGAIN, AND IN IT, A LINE THAT SAYS, MEET THE NEW BOSS, SAME

                    AS THE OLD BOSS.  THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT WHILE THE GOVERNOR MAY

                    APPEAR DIFFERENT FROM THE PREVIOUS ONE, SHE IS CONTINUING DOWN THE

                    PATH OF SECRECY, OF LATE BUDGETS, AND A TOTAL LACK OF TRANSPARENCY FOR THE

                    TAXPAYERS.

                                 AS MY COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT, IT WAS PRETTY OBVIOUS

                    WE NEEDED TO PASS THIS BY 4 O'CLOCK, BUT IT APPARENTLY WAS VERY

                    DIFFICULT TO GET IT TO US BEFORE THEN, AND IT REQUIRED A MESSAGE OF

                    NECESSITY, NO LESS.  IF WE ENDED SESSION ON THE 31ST WITHOUT COMING TO

                    A BUDGET AGREEMENT AND WE WERE TOLD WE NEEDED TO BE BACK HERE ON

                    MONDAY, ONE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT MAYBE ON FRIDAY, I DON'T KNOW, WE

                    COULD HAVE RELEASED THIS PIECE OF PAPER THAT WAS GIVEN TO US.  DOESN'T

                    SEEM VERY LONG.

                                 SO THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH ONE PARTY RULE.  THIS IS THE

                    PROBLEM WHEN YOU HAVE AN ACCIDENTAL GOVERNOR.  NEW YORK STATE

                    GOVERNMENT IS BROKEN, AND IT NEEDS TO CHANGE.  I WOULD NOTE ONE OF THE

                                         132



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    THINGS THAT IS INCLUDED IN THIS EMERGENCY EXTENDER IS HEALTH CARE NEEDS

                    FOR AMERICAN INDIANS WITHIN NEW YORK, AND I'M GLAD WE'RE GOING TO

                    PAY THAT BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR JUST FLEECED THEM OUT OF HUNDREDS OF

                    MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, SO IT'S NICE THAT SHE OFFERS THEM HEALTH CARE.  BUT

                    THE PEOPLE DESERVE TRANSPARENCY, THEY DESERVE HONESTY, AND THEY

                    DESERVE BETTER THAN WHAT WE'RE GETTING.  THEY DESERVE A BUDGET THAT

                    WAS ON TIME, BUT SINCE WE'RE ALREADY LONG OVERDUE, AND MAYBE THEY'LL

                    GET THEIR RAINCHECK, AS WE HEARD LAST WEEK, IT WOULD BE NICE IF MAYBE

                    WE GIVE THEM A FEW DAYS TO REVIEW THE BUDGET SINCE WE HAVE EXTENDED

                    THIS ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE 7TH.  SO HOPEFULLY, HOPEFULLY THE GOVERNOR

                    AND OUR LEGISLATIVE LEADERS CAN COME TO SOME AGREEMENT AND CLUE THE

                    REST OF US IN ON IT SOMETIME BEFORE THIS BUDGET EXTENDER EXPIRES.

                                 AND WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE BECAUSE I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO HOLD OUR HARD-WORKING

                    EMPLOYEES, THOSE WITH DISABILITIES, AMERICAN INDIANS WITHIN NEW

                    YORK, THEY SHOULDN'T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE INCOMPETENT STATE

                    GOVERNMENT THAT WE HAVE.  IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.  SO I ENCOURAGE

                    EVERYBODY TO VOTE YES ON THE EXTENDER, BUT WE SHOULD ALL DEMAND

                    BETTER FROM OUR STATE GOVERNMENT AND OUR ELECTED LEADERS.  THERE

                    NEEDS TO BE TRANSPARENCY AND THERE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.  AND SO

                    WITH THAT, I VOTE YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8715.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                                         133



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I MOSTLY RISE TO HONOR

                    THE SPONSOR OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, BECAUSE WHAT WE SAW HER DO

                    HERE TODAY IS WHAT WE OFTEN HAVE TO SEE PEOPLE DO, PARTICULARLY

                    WOMEN, WE JUST SAW IT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WITH THE JUDGE WHO WAS

                    -- THE SUPREME COURT JUDGE WHEN SHE WAS CONSTANTLY BEAT DOWN ON

                    ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY TO THE ISSUE.  AND I ADMIRE THE

                    WAY SHE STOOD UP TO THAT, TOLD HER TRUTH, KEPT THE FACTS LIKE THEY WERE,

                    AND I THINK SHE DID THE RIGHT THING AND I'M VERY, VERY PLEASED WITH HER

                    RESPONSES.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  COULD YOU PLEASE -- NO.

                    FIRST, I SHOULD SAY DO YOU HAVE ANY HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS, THEN

                    AFTER THAT WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL ON MS. HUNTER FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN

                    ANNOUNCEMENT?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WE CAN DO THAT.  WE

                    DO HAVE RESOLUTIONS, NO HOUSEKEEPING.  ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          APRIL 4, 2022

                    FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 721-724

                    WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

                                 MS. HUNTER FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

                                 MS. HUNTER:  YES, MR. SPEAKER, GOOD EVENING.

                    THERE WILL BE AN IMMEDIATE NEED FOR A MAJORITY CONFERENCE AT THE

                    CONCLUSION OF OUR SESSION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MAJORITY CONFERENCE

                    AT THE CONCLUSION OF SESSION.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE

                    THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT 10 A.M.

                    ON TUESDAY, MARCH -- APRIL THE 5TH, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

                    ADJOURNED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 5:42 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD

                    ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY, APRIL 5TH AT 10:00 A.M., TUESDAY BEING A

                    SESSION DAY.)















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