MONDAY, APRIL 4, 2022 11:31 A.M.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME
TO ORDER.
THE RABBI BUTMAN WILL OFFER A PRAYER.
RABBI SHMUEL BUTMAN: (SPEAKING HEBREW).
OUR HEAVENLY FATHER, PLEASE BESTOW ALL OF YOUR KINDNESS ON THE
MEMBERS OF THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY. BLESS THEM AND THEIR
FAMILIES WITH ALL THE GOOD THINGS AND HAPPINESS AND PROSPERITY IN ALL OF
THEIR DEEDS. ESPECIALLY SINCE TODAY, THE MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY ARE
GOING TO PASS A RESOLUTION FOR 120 DAYS OF EDUCATION IN HONOR OF THE
120TH BIRTHDAY OF THE REBBE RABBI MENACHEM M. SCHNEERSON. WE
START PSALM 121, THAT'S THE CUSTOM, AND IN PSALM 121 IT SAYS (SPEAKING
HEBREW), WHICH MEANS, MY HELP, SAYS KING DAVID, COMES FROM
ALMIGHTY GOD. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US HAS SOME -- SOMETIMES THAT
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
WE NEED HELP. AND WE KNOW THAT IF WE TURN TO ALMIGHTY GOD AND WE
ASK FOR HIS HELP, WE ARE GOING TO RECEIVE HIS HELP. WE WITNESS -- AS WE
ALL DO, WE READ NEWSPAPERS AND WE HEAR AND WE SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN
THIS WORLD. AND WE SEE THAT THE WORLD IS LESS THAN PERFECT THE WAY IT'S
TODAY. AND TODAY THE REASON THAT WE DEDICATE DAYS OF EDUCATION
BECAUSE THE REBBE ALWAYS SAID THAT HE WANTS EACH AND EVERY CHILD TO
KNOW THAT THERE IS AN EYE THAT SEES AND AN EAR THAT HEARS AND THAT THE
WORLD IS NOT A JUNGLE. HOW MUCH NICER THE WORLD WOULD BE TODAY IF ALL
THE LEADERS WOULD KNOW THAT THERE IS AN EYE THAT SEES AND AN EAR THAT
HEARS AND THAT THE WORLD IS NOT A JUNGLE.
IN 1991, I WENT TO WASHINGTON AND I OPENED THE
UNITED STATES SENATE. BEFORE I DID THAT I WENT TO SEE THE REBBE. AND
THE REBBE SAID TO ME I SHOULD TAKE ME WITH A PUSHKA. A PUSHKA
MEANS A CHARITY BOX. AND WHILE I'M OFFERING THE INVOCATION I SHOULD
PUT IN ONE DOLLAR INTO THE PUSHKA. AND THEN THE REBBE SAID, LET THEM
SEE WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT MONEY SHOULD BE
GIVEN FOR. WE'RE GOING TO PUT IN ONE DOLLAR IN THE PUSHKA, AS THE REBBE
ASKED ME TO DO. AND LATER ON IF ANYONE WANTS TO JOIN US IN PUTTING IN
ONE DOLLAR IN THE PUSHKA, WE IT WOULD BE -- IT WOULD BE GREATLY
APPRECIATED. WELL, I DON'T WANT YOU TO THINK THAT THIS IS A FUNDRAISING
CAMPAIGN, BECAUSE IF IT WOULD BE WE WOULD ASK YOU FOR MORE THAN ONE
DOLLAR. AND YOU'RE DEALING WITH A BUDGET ANYWAY, OF MORE THAN ONE
DOLLAR. BUT THIS IS AN ACT OF GOODNESS AND KINDNESS. ALMIGHTY GOD
HAS MADE YOU THE CUSTODIAN. THE CUSTODIANS OF LAW AND ORDER AND ALL
THE GOOD THINGS FOR THE STATE OF NEW YORK. BY EXTENSION, ALL OF
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
AMERICA IS LOOKING UP TO YOU, AND AMERICA IS A SUPERPOWER.
THEREFORE, YOU ARE A LIGHT NOT ONLY FOR AMERICA, A LIGHT FOR THE ENTIRE
WORLD. I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT EVERY SATURDAY WE SAY A PRAYER FOR YOU.
WE SAY ALL OF THOSE WHO SERVE THE PUBLIC FAITHFULLY, ALMIGHTY GOD
SHOULD BLESS THEM. THEY SHOULD HAVE A LOT OF PROSPERITY, AND YOU
SHOULD HAVE A LOT OF PROSPERITY IN YOUR PRIVATE LIVES AND IN YOUR PUBLIC
LIVES, AND YOU SHOULD PASS THE BUDGET SUCCESSFULLY TODAY.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
(LAUGHTER/APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: VISITORS ARE INVITED
TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND
MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)
A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE
JOURNAL OF SUNDAY, APRIL 3RD.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO
DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF SUNDAY, APRIL 3RD
AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO
ORDERED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS. I CERTAINLY WANT TO THANK THE RABBI
FOR THOSE BEAUTIFUL WORDS. I WALKED RIGHT BACK TO MY OFFICE AND
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
GRABBED MY DOLLAR SO I'LL BE PREPARED.
I DO HAVE A QUOTE I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE TODAY, MR.
SPEAKER. THIS ONE IS FROM NELSON MANDALA, WHO MOST OF YOU ALL
KNOW WAS A SOUTH AFRICAN ANTI-APARTHEID REVOLUTIONARY, POLITICAL
LEADER AND PHILANTHROPIST WHO SERVED AS THE FIRST PRESIDENT OF SOUTH
AFRICA FROM 1994 UNTIL 1999. HIS WORDS FOR US TODAY, MR. SPEAKER AND
COLLEAGUES, THE GREATEST GLORY IN LIVING LIES NOT IN NEVER FALLING, BUT IN
RISING EVERY TIME WE FALL. AGAIN, THOSE WORDS FROM NELSON MANDALA.
MR. SPEAKER -- MR. SPEAKER AND COLLEAGUES, YOU HAVE
-- COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESKS THE MAIN CALENDAR WITH SIX NEW BILLS
ON IT. AFTER ANY HOUSEKEEPING WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP RESOLUTIONS ON
PAGE 3. NOT SURE IF COLLEAGUES WILL DESIRE TO SPEAK ON THOSE OR NOT, MR.
SPEAKER. BUT AFTERWARDS WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP THOSE NEW BILLS ON
CONSENT BEGINNING WITH CALENDAR NO. 511. IT'S ON PAGE 4. AND THEN
WE'RE GOING TO WORK OFF OUR DEBATE. WE'RE GOING TO START EXACTLY WHERE
WE LEFT OFF LAST WEEK, MR. SPEAKER, WITH CALENDAR NO. 294 BY MS.
SOLAGES, CALENDAR NO. 359 BY MR. DINOWITZ, CALENDAR NO. 385 BY MS.
ROSENTHAL, AND CALENDAR NO. 464 BY MR. ZEBROWSKI. THERE IS A REAL
POSSIBILITY THERE MAY BE A NEED SOME ADDITIONAL -- FOR SOME ADDITIONAL
FLOOR WORK TODAY, BUT FOR SURE THERE WILL BE MEETINGS CALLED OFF THE
FLOOR FOR BOTH WAYS AND MEANS AND RULES. AND IF THERE ANY FURTHER
ANNOUNCEMENTS WE'LL LET YOU KNOW AT A LATER TIME, MR. SPEAKER.
ABSOLUTELY THERE WILL BE A NEED FOR A MAJORITY CONFERENCE, THOUGH.
THAT WE -- WE KNOW. THAT WILL HAPPEN AT THE CONCLUSION OF OUR WORK
TODAY AND IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN HEARING ROOM B. AND AS ALWAYS
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
WE'LL ASK OUR COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE IF THEY HAVE THE
SAME NEEDS.
MR. SPEAKER, THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE. IF THERE'S
HOUSEKEEPING NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NO HOUSEKEEPING --
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: -- BUT WE DO HAVE AN
INTRODUCTION BY MR. WEPRIN.
MR. WEPRIN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'D LIKE THIS
INTRODUCTION TO BE JOINED BUT WITH ASSEMBLYMAN BRIAN CUNNINGHAM,
OUR NEW COLLEAGUE REPRESENTING CROWN HEIGHTS, AS WELL AS OUR
DISTINGUISHED CHAIR OF THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE WHO USED TO
REPRESENT CROWN HEIGHTS, HELENE WEINSTEIN, AND ASSEMBLYMEMBER
CLYDE VANEL WHO REPRESENTS THE -- THE OHEL WHERE THE -- THE REBBE IS
BURIED.
RABBI SHMUEL BUTMAN IS A FRIEND OF THE WEPRIN
FAMILY FOR MANY YEARS. HE'S A CLOSE FRIEND OF MY LATE UNCLE JACK, AS
WELL AS MY LATE FATHER SAUL. HE'S BEEN COMING UP TO ALBANY EACH AND
EVERY YEAR TO COMMEMORATE THE LUBAVITCHER REBBE RABBI MENACHEM
MENDEL SCHNEERSON'S BIRTHDAY. THIS YEAR IS A SPECIAL ANNIVERSARY, 120
YEARS, WHICH IS THE -- THE AGE OF MOSES WHEN HE PASSED AWAY. AND
VERY OFTEN WHEN PEOPLE GIVE GREETINGS OF GOOD HEALTH THEY SAY, UNTIL
120. AND THAT'S BECAUSE THAT'S HOW LONG MOSES LIVED. RABBI BUTMAN
HAS BEEN INVOLVED -- HE ACTUALLY ERECTS EACH AND EVERY YEAR ON
HANUKKAH THE LARGEST MENORAH IN THE WORLD, WHICH IS AT 59TH STREET
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
AND 5TH AVENUE EVERY HANUKKAH THAT THEY LIGHT THAT MENORAH FOR EIGHT
NIGHTS. AND I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGES MANY -- FOR MANY YEARS TO LIGHT ONE
OF THOSE CANDLES. THE LUBAVITCHER YOUTH ORGANIZATION IS HEADED BY
RABBI BUTMAN FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, AND THEY ACTUALLY ARE INVOLVED
WITH OVER 65 DIFFERENT CHABAD HOUSES. EVERY YEAR WE -- I'VE BEEN
SPONSORING THIS RESOLUTION WHICH WE WILL ADOPT AT THE END OF THE
SESSION TO COMMEMORATE RABBI SCHNEERSON'S 120TH YEAR. RABBI
SCHNEERSON ESTABLISHED 1,500 LUBAVITCH CENTERS WORLDWIDE AND
HELPED PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE, WHETHER THEY BE JEWISH OR NOT
JEWISH. TODAY THE CHABAD LUBAVITCH OPERATES 5,000 CENTERS IN OVER
1,000 CITIES AND 102 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. THROUGHOUT RABBI
SCHNEERSON'S LIFE, HE DEDICATED HIMSELF AND HIS FOLLOWERS HAVE
DEDICATED THEMSELVES TO MANY PHILANTHROPIC CAUSES, HUMANITARIAN
EFFORTS AND ASTUTE JUDAIC LEADERSHIP. HE HAS TRULY EARNED THE DEVOTION
OF HIS FOLLOWERS AND ALL OF US.
WITH THAT SAID, I AM TRULY HONORED TO BRING THIS
RESOLUTION AT THE END OF SESSION, AND I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE EVERYONE TO
A LUNCHEON BEING HELD IN ROOM 711 NOW, FOR THE NEXT OF COUPLE HOURS.
SO YOU'RE ALL WELCOME TO JOIN US FOR A KOSHER LUNCH.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF
OF MR. WEPRIN, MR. CUNNINGHAM, MS. WEINSTEIN, MR. VANEL, THE
SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU AGAIN TO THE NEW YORK
STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU, RABBI, THE PRIVILEGES OF THE HOUSE AND
LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR VISIT EVERY YEAR. THANK YOU FOR REMINDING US OF
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
THE WORTH THAT WE HAVE TO PEOPLE, BUT THAT WE SHOULD ALSO CONSIDER
THEIR WORTH AS WE DO OUR BUSINESS. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.
RABBI BUTMAN: THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.
(APPLAUSE)
MS. JACKSON FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.
MS. JACKSON: WELL, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WE
HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT GUEST TODAY. MOST OF YOU ALL KNOW HIM ALREADY,
BUT THIS IS HIS FIRST TIME ON THE FLOOR. AND AS YOU CAN SEE EARLIER, YOU
KNOW WHY I DON'T BRING HIM ONTO THE FLOOR. HE GOT REALLY DRESSED
TODAY BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR WAYNE JACKSON ARGUE WITH HIM
ABOUT A BOWTIE, SO HE HAS ONE ON. THIS RIGHT HERE IS -- WE DEEMED HIM
THE CHAIR OF THE BABY CAUCUS.
(LAUGHTER)
HE COMES EVERY WEEK TO HELP US PASS VERY IMPORTANT
LEGISLATION. MOST OF YOU KNOW HIM AS TJ, BUT I FORMALLY INTRODUCE YOU
ALL TO TERRENCE TRAFTON, JR. AND WE ARE SAYING TJ IS HERE, HAVE NO
FEAR, THE BUDGET WILL HAVE CHILDCARE THIS YEAR.
(LAUGHTER/APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: TJ, ON BEHALF OF YOUR
MOTHER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE
NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. AS
FAMILY, YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE THESE PRIVILEGES. LET ME SAY THAT THERE'S
NOTHING MORE SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THE CHANGES THAT WE'VE SEEN AS TO HAVE
YOUNG CHILDREN HERE ON THE FLOOR BECAUSE THAT WAS NOT WHAT HAPPENED
30 YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS HERE. AND SO THIS IS A GREAT CHANGE AND A
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
GREAT REMINDER OF WHY WE DO WHAT WE DO. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH,
TJ.
(APPLAUSE)
RESOLUTIONS, PAGE 3, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 719, MRS.
BARRETT.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 2022 AS LYME DISEASE AWARENESS
MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NAY. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 720, MS.
JOYNER.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 11-17, 2022 AT BLACK MATERNAL HEALTH
WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
PAGE 4, CALENDAR NO. 51 [SIC], THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03719-A, CALENDAR
NO. 511, LAVINE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO
NOTICE OF ART STOLEN DURING THE NAZI ERA IN EUROPE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 3719-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY
MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO
CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY
PROVIDED.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08185-B, CALENDAR
NO. 512, ROZIC, BURDICK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN
RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE BOARD OF MANAGERS OF A CONDOMINIUM TO
ALLOW UNIT OWNER MEETINGS TO BE CONDUCTED VIA ELECTRONIC MEANS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8185-B. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY
MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO
CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY
PROVIDED.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08264-B, CALENDAR
NO. 513, L. ROSENTHAL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW, THE
PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO REPLACING ALL
INSTANCES OF THE WORDS OR VARIATIONS OF THE WORDS "FEMININE HYGIENE
PRODUCTS" AND "SANITARY NAPKINS" WITH THE WORDS "MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS"
AND "PADS", RESPECTIVELY, OR A VARIATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09296, CALENDAR NO.
514, MCDONALD. AN ACT TO AMEND THE AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW,
IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE RETURN OF A DOG TO ITS OWNER OR CUSTODIAN.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9296. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER
WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE
MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09336-A, CALENDAR
NO. 515, BARRETT, SIMON, JACOBSON. AN ACT TO DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT OF
AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS, IN COOPERATION WITH THE NEW YORK STATE
ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, TO DEVELOP AND PRODUCE
GUIDANCE AND EDUCATIONAL MATERIALS ON THE USE OF AGRIVOLTAICS IN
10
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
FARMING.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MRS.
BARRETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09598, CALENDAR NO.
516, JOYNER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO REDEFINING
THE TERM "COVERED RENEWABLE ENERGY SYSTEM."
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
PAGE 29, CALENDAR NO. 294 ON THE DEBATE LIST, THE
CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04908, CALENDAR NO.
294, SOLAGES. AN ACT TO ESTABLISH A TASK FORCE TO IDENTIFY EVIDENCE-
BASED AND EVIDENCE-INFORMED SOLUTIONS TO REDUCE -- REDUCE CHILDREN'S
EXPOSURE TO ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. GOODELL: THANKS, MS. SOLAGES. IS THERE ANY
REASON WHY THERE AREN'T ANY MINORITY APPOINTMENTS ON THIS TASK FORCE?
MS. SOLAGES: WELL, I THANK MY COLLEAGUE FOR
BRINGING UP THIS VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC. AND OF COURSE WE'RE WILLING TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSIONS THAT WILL ALLOW PEOPLE, INDIVIDUALS, MEMBERS
TO HAVE THEIR SAY. BUT AS THE BILL IS WRITTEN IT ALLOWS FOR SPECIFIC
DEPARTMENTS TO APPOINT MEMBERS OF THE TASK FORCE. AND SO WE WANT TO
MAKE SURE GREAT EXPERIENCED INDIVIDUALS ARE SITTING ON THIS TASK FORCE
THAT REALLY CAN HIGHLIGHT ACES, WHICH ARE ADVERSE CHILDHOOD
EXPERIENCES, STRESSFUL EXPERIENCES, TRAUMAS. WE WANT INDIVIDUALS WHO
ARE TRAUMA-INFORMED TO BE SITTING ON THIS TASK FORCE.
MR. GOODELL: CERTAINLY, AND I -- I AGREE WITH
YOUR OBJECTIVE TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE WELL-INFORMED TO SERVE ON THIS
TASK FORCE. IT'S AN OBJECTIVE WE ALL SHARE. BUT WHY ARE THERE ONLY
APPOINTMENTS FROM THE MAJORITY AND NO APPOINTMENT FROM THE
MINORITY?
MS. SOLAGES: YOU KNOW, AS I SAID BEFORE, MY --
MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS MAKING SURE THAT WE ASCERTAIN OR ARE ABLE TO GET
INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE TRAUMA-INFORMED WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW,
EXPERIENCE. AND SO DEFINITELY THEY COULD HAVE -- WE HAVE FURTHER
DIALOGUE AND CONVERSATION BECAUSE RIGHT HERE THE -- THE APPOINTMENTS
DON'T END WITH US PASSING THIS BILL. IT'S AN ONGOING CONVERSATION. SO
DEFINITELY I'M INTERESTED IN HAVING FURTHER CONVERSATIONS WITH THE
MINORITY.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. SO EVEN THOUGH THIS
LEGISLATION DOESN'T PROVIDE FOR AN APPOINTMENT OF AN EXPERT FROM THE
MINORITY, YOU ANTICIPATE THAT THE MINORITY WILL HAVE INPUT ON THE
APPOINTMENT THAT'S BEING MADE BY THE MAJORITY?
MS. SOLAGES: YEAH. I'M OPEN TO A DIALOGUE ABOUT
12
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
THE TEN MEMBERS FROM SPECIFIC DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES THAT CAN
ASCERTAIN AND EVALUATE ACES AND OTHER, YOU KNOW, TRAUMA-INFORMED
POLICIES.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. GOODELL: THE PURPOSE OF THIS TASK FORCE,
WHICH IS TO EVALUATE ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES AND MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WILL BE HELPFUL IS CERTAINLY A VALUABLE AND
WORTHWHILE OBJECTIVE, SOMETHING I KNOW THAT ALL MY COLLEAGUES SHARE.
I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE, THOUGH, THAT THE MINORITY BOTH
HERE AND IN THE SENATE REPRESENT SEVERAL MILLION PEOPLE. AND THIS IS AN
ISSUE THAT AFFECTS NOT JUST MAJORITY MEMBERS OR NOT JUST MAJORITY
DISTRICTS. SADLY, IT'S AN ISSUE THAT AFFECTS EVERY DISTRICT ALL ACROSS THE
STATE. AND I THINK IT'S ALWAYS VALUABLE WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT CREATING
TASK FORCES THAT WE SEE EXPERTS THAT COME FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.
AND SO WHILE I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE MAJORITY APPOINTMENT WILL BE AN
EXPERT, A LOT OF TIMES THE MINORITY ALSO HAS EXPERTS THAT COME FROM A
SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE THAT MIGHT REFLECT, FOR EXAMPLE, A MORE
UPSTATE PERSPECTIVE OR A MORE RURAL PERSPECTIVE. AND WE ALL KNOW THAT
ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES CAN VARY, WHETHER YOU'RE IN AN URBAN
SETTING OR IN A RURAL SETTING. AND SO I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE MY
COLLEAGUE'S FOCUS ON ESTABLISHING A TASK FORCE FOCUSING ON ADVERSE
CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES. I HOPE THAT WE CAN REEXAMINE THIS, INCREASE
THE NUMBER OF MEMBERSHIP, MAKE SURE THAT NOT JUST THE URBAN AREAS BUT
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
THE SUBURBAN AREAS AND THE RURAL AREAS ARE REPRESENTED, AND THAT'S
WHERE THE MINORITY CAN BE PARTICULARLY HELPFUL.
SO WITH THAT I -- I WILL BE VOTING FOR IT AND RECOMMEND
IT TO MY COLLEAGUES. BUT I ALSO WOULD COMMEND TO MY COLLEAGUE THAT
WE LOOK AT EXPANDING THE MEMBERSHIP AND INCLUDE A BROADER AND MORE
DIVERSE REPRESENTATION. THANK YOU, SIR, AND THANK YOU TO MY
COLLEAGUE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. FITZPATRICK.
MR. FITZPATRICK: HI. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. FITZPATRICK: THANK YOU. MICHAELLE, CAN
YOU DEFINE FOR ME WHAT AN ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCE IS? WHAT --
WHAT ARE THESE?
MS. SOLAGES: YEAH, DEFINITELY. YOU KNOW, ACES
ARE DEFINED AS STRESSFUL AND TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCES THAT HAVE OCCURRED
DURING CHILDHOOD WHICH STRONGLY ARE RELATED TO THE DEVELOP -- EFFECT
AND ARE RELATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT AND PREVALENCE OF A WIDE RANGE OF
PROBLEMS THROUGHOUT A PERSON'S LIFETIME. SO, ABOUT 1/10TH OF EVERY
MUNICIPALITY, STATE, FEDERAL DOLLAR IS SPENT ON HEALTH-RELATED ISSUES,
TRAUMAS THAT AFFECT CHILDREN AT A YOUNG AGE.
MR. FITZPATRICK: OKAY. VERY GOOD. I -- I KNOW
14
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
YOU MENTIONED TO THE -- TO THE FORMER QUESTIONER THAT YOU ARE OPEN TO
DIALOGUE. WOULD -- WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO MAKE A COMMITMENT TO
ADD A MINORITY MEMBER OR MINORITY MEMBERS TO THIS PANEL?
MS. SOLAGES: YOU KNOW, MY FIRST --
MR. FITZPATRICK: WOULD YOU GO ON THE RECORD TO
DO SO?
MS. SOLAGES: OH, MY FIRST THOUGHT IS MAKING SURE
THAT WE GET, YOU KNOW, HEALTH PROFESSIONALS, MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS,
PEOPLE WITHIN STATE AGENCIES WHO ARE -- HAVE EXPERIENCE AND -- AND IN
MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE INTELLIGENT ABOUT TRAUMA-INFORMED POLICY. SO,
YOU KNOW, WE'RE DEFINITELY HAVING CONVERSATIONS. WE'RE DEFINITELY,
YOU KNOW, TALKING. BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO BE FOCUSED ON
MAKING SURE THAT WE TACKLE ACES AND ARE HAVING TRAUMA-INFORMED
POLICY BECAUSE EVERY DAY AS A STATE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PAYING ON THE
BACK END INSTEAD OF JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW WE CAN BE PREVENTATIVE. SO
I'M DEFINITELY OPEN TO CONVERSATION AND, YOU KNOW, LOOK FORWARD TO --
TO HEARING MORE, YOU KNOW, OFF THE FLOOR.
MR. FITZPATRICK: BUT -- BUT YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO
MAKE A COMMITMENT.
MS. SOLAGES: SO, DEFINITELY I'M -- I'M WILLING TO
HAVE A CONVERSATION.
MR. FITZPATRICK: YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO MAKE A
COMMITMENT.
MS. SOLAGES: YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I AM THE
ASSEMBLY SPONSOR SO --
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MR. FITZPATRICK: OKAY. I'LL TAKE THAT AS YOU'RE
NOT WILLING TO MAKE A COMMITMENT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
MS. SOLAGES: I THANK MY COLLEAGUE.
MR. FITZPATRICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. GALLAHAN.
MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR ONE QUESTION?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES YIELDS,
SIR.
MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU. FOLLOWING UP ON MY
COLLEAGUE'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE MINORITY NOT BEING RECOGNIZED HERE
AND BEING A PART OF THIS -- THIS COMMITTEE, THIS TASK FORCE, I BROUGHT THIS
UP IN COMMITTEE. IT WAS AN OBJECTION THAT I HAD IN COMMITTEE, AND I
WAS TOLD THAT IT WOULD BE LOOKED INTO BEFORE THE BILL HIT THE FLOOR. I
DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS LOOKED INTO OR NOT, BUT THE BILL'S ON THE FLOOR AND
WE DON'T HAVE THAT -- THAT COMMITMENT. CAN YOU -- CAN YOU TELL ME
WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT MY QUESTION IN COMMITTEE AND MAYBE WHY IT
WASN'T ADDRESSED?
MS. SOLAGES: YOU KNOW, IN PREVIOUS YEARS THE
LEGISLATURE HAD VARIOUS PROPOSALS RELATED TO ACES, INCLUDING
EXPANDING CHILD CARE TRAINING REQUIREMENTS TO INCLUDE ACES, TO
16
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
PROVIDE INFORMATION ON VARIOUS ENTITIES RELATED TO ACES, AND TO
PROVIDE GUIDANCE AND -- AND REPORT ON WHAT WE CAN DO TO TACKLE IT. SO,
AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE FOCUSED THAT THE
PEOPLE WITHIN THE STATE AGENCIES AND THE PEOPLE SITTING ON THIS TASK
FORCE ARE FOCUSED ON ACES. AND, YOU KNOW, TO ME ACES IS A -- IS A
BIPARTISAN ISSUE. IT'S AN ISSUE THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT SOMEONE
COMING IN THERE THINKING FROM A POLITICAL LENS, BUT MORE THINKING ABOUT
HOLISTICALLY, WHAT CAN WE DO TO IMPROVE OUTCOMES FOR YOUNG CHILDREN
IN NEW YORK STATE. AND SO I'M DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, OPEN TO
DIALOGUE, OPEN TO CONVERSATIONS. BUT WE NEED TO REALLY BE FOCUSED ON
-- ON MAKING SURE THAT ACES ARE TAKEN CARE OF. SO IF WE HAVE A
COMMITMENT TO REALLY TACKLE AND MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE
IMPROVING OUTCOMES, I'M ALL FOR IT.
MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. GALLAHAN: I CAN APPRECIATE, YOU KNOW, YOU
BEING OPEN AND WILLING TO -- TO COMMUNICATE. BUT WEEKS AGO WE
VOTED ON THIS IN COMMITTEE AND APPARENTLY THERE'S NO COMMUNICATION
FROM THEN UNTIL NOW. I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE THERE WILL BE
COMMUNICATION BETWEEN NOW AND LATER. YOU KNOW, COMMITTEES AND
TASK FORCES ARE CONSTANTLY BEING FORMED IN THIS -- IN THIS CHAMBER, AND
TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN THE MINORITY IS NOT ON THESE COMMITTEES.
THERE'S NO APPOINTMENTS FROM THE MINORITY SIDE. I VOTED FOR THIS IN
COMMITTEE, AND SEEING THERE'S NO REPRESENTATION FROM THE MINORITY
17
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
SIDE I WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 4908. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER
WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE
MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. LAWLER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. IT LOOKS
LIKE WE'RE OFF TO A RAUCOUS START TODAY. WE COULD AVOID THESE TYPES OF
QUESTIONS ON THE DAILY IF THE MAJORITY WOULD JUST AGREE THAT ANY TIME
THERE'S THESE TYPE OF TASK FORCES OR COMMITTEES THAT THEY ALLOW
MINORITY REPRESENTATION TO BE PART OF IT. WE REPRESENT MILLIONS OF
PEOPLE ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK OF ALL BACKGROUNDS, AND THIS IS
WHY PEOPLE HAVE SUCH LITTLE FAITH IN GOVERNMENT. WE TALK OFTEN ABOUT
THE COMMITTEE PROCESS, AND GO THROUGH THE COMMITTEE PROCESS. THERE
IS NO COMMITTEE PROCESS, AS EVIDENCED BY MY COLLEAGUE'S COMMENTS,
THAT HE ASKED FOR THIS TO BE AMENDED BETWEEN COMMITTEE AND THE TIME
IT CAME TO THE FLOOR SO THAT THE MINORITY WAS INCLUDED IN IT. IT
OBVIOUSLY WASN'T. WE'RE GOING TO VOTE AT SOME POINT - MAYBE TODAY,
MAYBE TOMORROW - ON A BUDGET EXTENDER BECAUSE ONE-PARTY RULE CAN'T
SEEM TO GET TOGETHER AND PRODUCE A REAL BUDGET. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE,
18
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
WE CAN START TO GET TO A POINT WHERE EVEN THE LITTLEST THINGS SUCH AS TASK
FORCE, WE CAN FIND SOME WAY TO BE -- TO WORK TOGETHER IN A BIPARTISAN
MANNER AND ENSURE THAT THERE ARE APPOINTMENTS FROM THE MINORITY TO
THESE TASK FORCES. IT WOULD PROBABLY MAKE THESE BILLS MEAN SOMETHING
MORE TO THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HELP AND SERVE, MANY OF
WHOM LIVE IN OUR DISTRICTS AS THEY DO IN YOURS.
SO WITH THAT AND BECAUSE BASED ON THE LINE OF
QUESTIONING AND THE NON-ANSWERS, I'M GOING TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAWLER IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE RECORD MY
COLLEAGUE MR. DIPIETRO IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 30, CALENDAR NO. 359.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01861-C, CALENDAR
NO. 359, DINOWITZ, L. ROSENTHAL, GALEF, ABINANTI, FAHY, COLTON,
WEPRIN, LAVINE, REYES, CRUZ, LUNSFORD, DICKENS, JACOBSON. AN ACT TO
AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING AN EMPLOYER FROM
REQUESTING OR REQUIRING THAT AN EMPLOYEE OR APPLICANT DISCLOSE ANY USER
NAME, PASSWORD OR OTHER MEANS FOR ACCESSING A PERSONAL ACCOUNT
THROUGH SPECIFIED ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS DEVICES.
19
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DINOWITZ, AN
EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED, SIR.
MR. DINOWITZ: THIS BILL WOULD PROHIBIT AN
EMPLOYER FROM REQUESTING OR REQUIRING THAT AN EMPLOYEE OR APPLICANT
DISCLOSE ANY USER NAME, PASSWORD OR OTHER MEANS FOR ASSESS --
ACCESSING PERSONAL ACCOUNTS THROUGH SPECIFIED ELECTRONIC
COMMUNICATION DEVICES SUCH AS COMPUTERS, TELEPHONES, PERSONAL
DIGITAL ASSISTANTS AND OTHER SIMILAR DEVICES. AND THE BILL WOULD ALSO
PROHIBIT THE EMPLOYER FROM DISCHARGING, DISCIPLINING, PENALIZING,
THREATENING OR REFUSING TO HIRE AN EMPLOYEE FOR REFUSAL TO DISCLOSE
INFORMATION FOR ACCESSING A PERSONAL ACCOUNT. AND THIS WOULD PROVIDE
PRIVACY PROTECTIONS TO EMPLOYEES AND JOB APPLICANTS REGARDING THEIR
PERSONAL ELECTRONIC ACCOUNTS SUCH AS FACEBOOK OR TWITTER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DINOWITZ, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS,
SIR.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ. SO I KNOW WE
HAVE DISCUSSED THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION IN THE PAST, SO I WANT TO JUST
START WITH -- BECAUSE MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOR
YEARS MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH PRIOR VERSIONS OF THIS BILL. YOU KNOW,
20
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
YEARS AGO -- I -- I READ BACK THROUGH SOME OF THE TRANSCRIPTS -- WE HAD A
DISCUSSION ABOUT EXEMPTIONS, AND THIS VERSION OF THE BILL DOES HAVE AN
EXEMPTION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND I BELIEVE FIREFIGHTER JOB
APPLICANTS; IS THAT CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. SO IF YOU CAN JUST -- JUST
WALK WITH ME THROUGH I GUESS THE PROCESS HERE. THIS IS FOR NOT
NECESSARILY -- OR NOT AN EXISTING EMPLOYEE, BUT FOR AN APPLICANT FOR A
JOB AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT PERSPECTIVE EMPLOYER CAN REQUEST ACCESS TO
THESE ACCOUNTS, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT WOULD INCLUDE JOB APPLICANTS AS
WELL AS EMPLOYEES.
MR. RA: OKAY. SO LET ME TAKE THE CURRENT EMPLOYEE
FIRST AND THEN GO BACK TO THE APPLICANT. SO, A CURRENT EMPLOYEE WHO
MAY HAVE ACCESS, SAY, TO, YOU KNOW, INTERNAL TYPE OF MECHANISMS FOR
COMMUNICATIONS, BE THEY SOFTWARE OR HARDWARE. WHAT IS THIS
PREVENTING THEIR EMPLOYER FROM DOING?
MR. DINOWITZ: IF THE EQUIPMENT IS -- BELONGS TO
THE EMPLOYER, IT DOESN'T REALLY PREVENT THEM FROM DOING ANYTHING, BUT
THEY WOULD HAVE TO DISCLOSE VARIOUS LIMITATIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE. BUT
THE EMPLOYER CAN'T REQUIRE THE EMPLOYEE TO DISCLOSE THEIR OWN PERSONAL
ACCOUNTS. SO IF AN EMPLOYEE HAD A -- LIKE, WE HAVE PASSWORDS FOR OUR
ASSEMBLY ACCOUNTS. THAT'S NOT MY PASSWORD, THAT BELONGS TO THE
ASSEMBLY. THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN MY OWN PASSWORD FOR MY OWN E-MAIL.
MR. RA: SURE. SO WOULD THAT INCLUDE, THEN, THAT
21
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
TYPE OF LIKE AN INTERNAL E-MAIL OR EVEN -- WHAT ABOUT -- I KNOW -- YOU
KNOW, WE GO INTO ONE OF OUR COMPUTERS IN OUR DISTRICT OFFICE OR -- OR IN
OUR OFFICES HERE IN ALBANY AND THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, A LOG-IN THAT THE
STATE HAS PROVIDED US. THAT WOULD NOT BE A PERSONAL LOG IN, THAT WOULD
BE SOMETHING THAT AN EMPLOYER COULD UTILIZE?
MR. DINOWITZ: THAT -- THAT'S NOT A PERSONAL
ACCOUNT.
MR. RA: THANK YOU. SO, GOING BACK TO THE JOB
APPLICANT. SO, AS WE'VE DISCUSSED IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, I -- I THINK
ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS PEOPLE DO -- I CERTAINLY HAVE DONE IT WITH
PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYERS [SIC] -- IS -- IS, YOU KNOW, SEE IF I FIND THEM ON
SOCIAL MEDIA BECAUSE YOU WANT TO KNOW -- YOU MIGHT GET A WINDOW
INTO WHO YOU'RE HIRING. IF THERE'S ANYTHING CONTROVERSIAL -- AND WE'VE
SEEN THIS -- WHETHER IT'S IN, YOU KNOW, HIGHER EDUCATION OR -- OR
EMPLOYMENT SITUATIONS WHERE SOMETHING COMES TO LIGHT AFTER THE FACT
AND AN UNFORTUNATE, YOU KNOW, RESCINDING OF AN OFFER HAS -- HAS TO BE
MADE. SO I THINK WE -- I DON'T KNOW, I CAN CERTAINLY SEE BOTH SIDES OF
THIS IN TERMS OF NOT WANTING A PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYER TO BE ABLE TO SAY,
HEY, I WANT YOUR LOG IN FOR YOUR FACEBOOK ACCOUNT OR YOUR INSTAGRAM
ACCOUNT OR YOUR TWITTER ACCOUNT. BUT I CAN ALSO SEE WHY A PROSPECTIVE
EMPLOYER WANTS TO -- OR AN EMPLOYER WANTS TO SEE WHAT'S OUT THERE THAT
MAY HAVE BEEN SAID BY -- BY AN EMPLOYEE.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, PEOPLE WANT A LOT OF THINGS
BUT THEY CAN'T ALWAYS HAVE WHAT THEY WANT OR GET WHAT THEY WANT.
MR. RA: SO, BUT MY -- MY QUESTION WITH THAT REGARD,
22
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
THEN, IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS, WE PUT STUFF OUT ON
THE INTERNET, BUT SOMETIMES WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY, HEY, I WANT MY
INFORMATION TO BE PRIVATE. SO ONLY, SAY, MY FRIENDS CAN -- CAN ACCESS
IT. PEOPLE WHO I HAVE CHOSEN TO ALLOW ACCESS TO IT. SO WOULD ANYTHING
IN THIS PREVENT, YOU KNOW, AN HR PERSON OR -- OR SOMEBODY ELSE, ANY
PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYER FROM SAYING -- FROM REACHING OUT, MAKING A
FRIEND REQUEST OR A FOLLOWER ON TWITTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT SO THAT
THEY CAN SEE WHAT'S IN THIS PERSON'S ACCOUNT?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, IF SOMEBODY MAKES A FRIEND
REQUEST, THEN THE PERSON WHOSE ACCOUNT IT IS CAN CHOOSE WHETHER OR NOT
TO ACCEPT THAT REQUEST. SOME PEOPLE ACCEPT ANY REQUESTS AND SOME
PEOPLE ARE WISE ENOUGH TO BE SELECTIVE ABOUT WHOSE REQUEST THEY
ACCEPT. BUT WE'RE TALKING HERE ABOUT AN EMPLOYER OR A POTENTIAL
EMPLOYER FROM REQUIRING THAT THE PERSON GIVE UP THEIR -- THEIR
PASSWORDS, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS WOULD PREVENT.
MR. RA: SO SUPPOSE -- SUPPOSE SOMEBODY
INTERVIEWS SOMEBODY AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, MARY SMITH FROM OUR HR
DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO SEND YOU A FRIEND REQUEST. WE'D LIKE YOU TO
ACCEPT IT BECAUSE SHE NEEDS TO JUST VERIFY THAT THERE'S NOTHING, YOU
KNOW, CONTROVERSIAL ON YOUR FACEBOOK ACCOUNT. WOULD THAT VIOLATE
THIS STATUTE IF IT WERE TO BECOME LAW?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I THINK I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT
THE BILL, BUT I THINK IT -- THE BILL BANS THE EMPLOYER FROM REQUIRING THE
DISCLOSURE OF THE PASSWORD. SO, I MEAN, PERSONALLY I WOULDN'T -- I
WOULDN'T ACCEPT A FRIEND REQUEST UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, BUT THAT'S NOT
23
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
WHAT THE BILL ADDRESSES EXACTLY. IT ADDRESSES THE -- THE FORCED
DISCLOSURE OF PASSWORDS.
MR. RA: THANK YOU. NOW, SO IT'S JUST THE PASSWORD.
SO IF SUPPOSE SOMEBODY DOES WILLINGLY ACCEPT, YOU KNOW, THAT FRIEND
REQUEST OR WHATEVER, AND YOU SEE SOMETHING -- THE EMPLOYER SEES
SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH. IS THERE ANY LANGUAGE IN
HERE THAT WOULD PREVENT THE EMPLOYER FROM DECIDING, I DON'T WANT TO
HIRE THAT PERSON?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. I MEAN, YOU CAN LOOK UP
SOMEBODY ON FACEBOOK ANY TIME YOU WANT. SOME PEOPLE'S ACCOUNTS
ARE MORE PUBLIC THAN OTHERS. I -- SOME ACCOUNTS THEY -- THEY CAN -- I
DON'T KNOW HOW IT WORKS, IF YOU WANT TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST. BUT
SOME ACCOUNTS IF YOU PUT A PERSON'S NAME IN IT'LL SAY, I DON'T KNOW,
PRIVATE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND OTHERS IS VERY PUBLIC. BUT THAT'S
THEIR CHOICE. BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT -- HERE ABOUT FORCING SOMEBODY
TO PROVIDE THE PASSWORD TO THE ACCOUNT, WHICH I GUESS WOULD GIVE OUT
MORE INFORMATION THAN SIMPLY LOOKING SOMEBODY UP.
MR. RA: AND THERE'S -- THERE'S ONE OTHER PIECE OF THIS
THAT I KNOW WE HAVE DISCUSSED IN THE PAST, AND I'M JUST GOING TO ASK
AGAIN IF YOU FOUND ANY INSTANCES OF THIS. THERE'S AN AFFIRMATIVE
DEFENSE IF A -- YOU KNOW, IF THE PERSON'S ACTING PURSUANT TO -- TO SOME
STATUTE. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY SUCH STATUTES? I MEAN, I -- I ASSUME THAT
AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE IS IN THERE FOR A REASON, BUT DO YOU KNOW OF ANY
SUCH STATUTES THAT WOULD REQUIRE SOMEBODY TO DISCLOSE THIS TYPE OF
INFORMATION?
24
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. I THINK IT ALSO TALKS ABOUT A
COURT ORDER. BUT NO, THE ANSWER IS I DON'T.
MR. RA: OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. RA: I APPRECIATE MR. DINOWITZ ANSWERING THE
QUESTIONS. YOU KNOW, THIS IS A BILL THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A NUMBER OF
YEARS. AS I MENTIONED, THERE WERE PRIOR VERSIONS THAT DIDN'T PROVIDE
ANY EXEMPTIONS. MANY ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE DID RAISE THE CONCERN
THAT PERHAPS SOME TYPE OF EXEMPTION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OR SIMILAR
OTHER TYPES OF OFFICIALS MIGHT BE NECESSARY. THERE HAD BEEN ACTUALLY A
PIECE OF LOCAL LEGISLATION AT THE CITY COUNCIL LEVEL WITH REGARD TO THIS,
AND I KNOW I HAD HAD SOME DISCUSSION WITH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT
UNIONS DOWN THERE ABOUT THEIR THOUGHTS WITH REGARD TO THIS. BASICALLY,
THE IDEA BEING YOU WANT TO KNOW OR -- OR -- OR TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
ANYTHING THAT'S OUT THERE TO SEE WHAT THE BACKGROUND OF AN INDIVIDUAL
THAT YOU MAY BE HIRING AND SEE IF THEY MAY BE ENGAGING IN, YOU KNOW,
NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY, WHETHER THEY'VE SAID THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO, YOU
KNOW, CAST A BAD LIGHT ON THE DEPARTMENT AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. SO
I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE THAT THOSE EXEMPTIONS HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE
BILL. I DO STILL HAVE CONCERNS WITH THIS LANGUAGE BECAUSE THERE ARE
CERTAINLY REASONS WHY YOU WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS INFORMATION.
NOW, I DON'T THINK NECESSARILY SOMEBODY SHOULD HAVE TO GIVE OVER
THEIR PASSWORD AND LOG IN, BUT I'M CONCERNED THAT THE LANGUAGE MAY
NOT BE TIGHT ENOUGH TO PREVENT A SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY JUST WANTS
25
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NO -- THAT THERE'S
NOTHING THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE A SITUATION WHERE THAT COMPANY IS GOING
TO, YOU KNOW, BE CAST IN A BAD LIGHT. WHY DID YOU HIRE THIS PERSON?
THIS PERSON WORKS FOR YOU. AND I THINK WE CAN ALL THINK OF INSTANCES
IN THE RECENT PAST WHERE A COMPANY FOUND OUT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL'S
PAST STATEMENTS THAT -- THAT IS WORKING FOR THEM AND -- AND WERE THE
SUBJECT OF A LOT OF PUBLIC SCRUTINY FOR BEING ASSOCIATED WITH -- WITH AN
INDIVIDUAL WHO SAID MAYBE SOME NEGATIVE THINGS IN THE PAST OR TOOK
SOME ACTIONS IN THE PAST THAT ARE NOT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THAT
COMPANY WANTS TO BE PUTTING OUT INTO THE WORLD.
SO I KNOW SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES, BECAUSE OF THOSE
CONCERNS, ARE STILL GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. BUT I -- I HOPE
WE CAN CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THIS ISSUE BECAUSE IT REALLY IS ABOUT A
BALANCING OF PRIVACY VERSUS MAKING SURE THAT OUR EMPLOYERS IN THIS
KIND OF DIGITAL WORLD KNOW WHAT -- WHAT PEOPLE ARE PUTTING OUT INTO THE
PUBLIC. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. ANGELINO.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I HAVE A
COUPLE OF QUESTIONS IF THE SPONSOR WILL YIELD.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DINOWITZ, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. ANGELINO: MY COLLEAGUE OVER HERE LUCKILY
26
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
ASKED A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD CONCERNS WITH. FIRST OFF, THE
EXEMPTION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FIREFIGHTERS IS PROBABLY NEEDED.
THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN A POSITION OF TRUST THAT YOU DO WANT TO
KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT. I'M CONCERNED BECAUSE THIS HAS HAPPENED IN A
SITUATION THAT I WAS FAMILIAR WITH. IF A PERSON HAS A LOCKED ACCOUNT, IT'S
PRIVATE AND ONLY HIS FRIENDS CAN SEE IT. IF ONE OF THOSE FRIENDS DIVULGES
INFORMATION TO A PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYER, IS THAT FRUIT FROM A POISONOUS
TREE? CAN THE EMPLOYER STILL ACT ON IT, OR...
MR. DINOWITZ: ARE YOU -- ARE YOU ASKING IF THE
EMPLOYER CAN ASK SOMEBODY ELSE?
MR. ANGELINO: NO, IF SOMEBODY -- IF INFORMATION
COMES FROM A LOCKED ACCOUNT. I -- I READ THIS, I SAW WHERE IT'S
PASSWORD PROTECTED AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE PROTECTING. BUT IT'S -- IF AN
EMPLOYER ACTS ON INFORMATION RECEIVED FROM A THIRD-PARTY FROM THAT
PERSON'S ACCOUNT, IS THAT A PROBLEM FOR -- IS THIS COVERED IN THIS BILL?
MR. DINOWITZ: I -- I THINK THE BILL SIMPLY
ADDRESSES THE EMPLOYER REQUIRING THE EMPLOYEE OR POTENTIAL EMPLOYEE
OF PROVIDING -- FORCING THE PERSON TO PROVIDE A PASSWORD.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MY QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MR. DURSO.
MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
27
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MR. DINOWITZ: ONLY IF THEY'RE A COUPLE AND ONLY
IF THEY'RE QUICK.
MR. DURSO: I HAVE THREE AND I PROMISE I'LL MAKE
THEM QUICK.
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, SIR. SO SINCE I HAVEN'T HAD
HAD A CHANCE TO DISCUSS THIS WITH YOU ON THE FLOOR IN PREVIOUS YEARS I
FIGURED I'D TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. WHY IS
THE REQUIREMENT IN PLACE FOR FIRE, POLICE, EMS, THOSE TYPE OF WORKERS
THAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO ASK FOR THOSE PASSWORDS?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, FOR TWO REASONS. I AMENDED
THE BILL. ONE IS THIS WOULD ESSENTIALLY CONFORM IT TO THE LEGISLATION
PASSED IN NEW YORK CITY. AND SECONDLY, BECAUSE OF MY EXTRAORDINARY
BIPARTISAN NATURE, I TOOK TO HEART THE SUGGESTIONS THAT SOME PEOPLE ON
YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE MADE THE LAST TIME WE DEBATED IT, AND ADDED THAT
TO THE BILL.
MR. DURSO: THANK YOU. THAT'S A GREAT ANSWER.
THANK YOU. SO THAT WAS A QUICK ANSWER, SO I ONLY HAVE TWO MORE --
TWO MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
MR. DINOWITZ: OKAY.
MR. DURSO: SO OBVIOUSLY THIS IS ONLY PASSWORD,
CORRECT? PASSWORD PROTECTION, ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THEY -- THE
EMPLOYER CANNOT ASK YOU FOR A PASSWORD. DOES THIS THEN HINDER
EMPLOYERS FROM COMING UP WITH ANY TYPE OF SOCIAL MEDIA POLICY OR
ANYTHING LIKE THAT WITHIN THE WORKPLACE? THIS DOES NOT HINDER THAT AT
28
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
ALL?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT DOES NOT.
MR. DURSO: OKAY, SO IT'S ONLY PASSWORD ONLY. AND
IF THERE'S ANY TYPE OF INTERNAL INVESTIGATION DONE WITHIN THOSE -- FROM
THOSE EMPLOYERS WITHIN THOSE JOBS, ARE THEY THEN ALLOWED TO ASK FOR
PASSWORDS OR NOT AT ALL?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ. I
APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE ON A.1861-C. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER WHO
WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS
REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS
PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. BUT THOSE WHO
SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT HERE ON THE
FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY LEADER.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
29
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF
THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, SIR, THERE MAY BE COLLEAGUES THAT
DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE
MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY
RECORDED.
THANK YOU, SIR.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE RECORD MY
COLLEAGUES MR. BRABENEC AND MR. NORRIS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 32, CALENDAR NO. 385, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02344-A, CALENDAR
NO. 385, L. ROSENTHAL, STECK, STERN, LAVINE, MAGNARELLI, REYES,
GRIFFIN, BRABENEC, JACKSON, ABINANTI, CARROLL, SEAWRIGHT. AN ACT TO
AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO FOOD ALLERGY AWARENESS IN
FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENTS AND ONLINE FOOD ORDERING SERVICES.
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: AN -- AN EXPLANATION
HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. ROSENTHAL: THIS BILL WOULD HELP ENSURE THE
SAFETY OF PEOPLE WITH FOOD ALLERGIES BY REQUIRING RESTAURANTS TO POST A
30
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
FOOD ALLERGY NOTICE, AND -- YEAH.
MS. WALSH: MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MS. ROSENTHAL. SO I JUST
HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS. FIRST OF ALL, THE BILL APPLIES TO FOOD
SERVICE ESTABLISHMENTS, BUT THAT IS NOT DEFINED. WOULD THAT -- IS IT FAIR
TO SAY THAT FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENTS WOULD INCLUDE EVERYTHING FROM
FINE DINING TO FAST FOOD AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN?
MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, IT SAYS IN THE BILL FOOD
SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT SHALL MEAN A RESTAURANT, CATERING HALL OR GROCERY
STORE WHERE FOOD IS PREPARED AND SERVED EITHER ON OR OFF SITE. THAT'S IN
THE BILL LANGUAGE.
MS. WALSH: OKAY, VERY GOOD. SO THE PROCEDURES
THAT ARE GOING TO BE FOLLOWED -- SO THERE -- THERE IS A POSTER
REQUIREMENT IN THE BILL, AS YOU NOTED.
MS. ROSENTHAL: IT'S A -- IT'S A NOTICE.
MS. WALSH: IT -- YEAH, A NOTICE REQUIREMENT. BUT
THAT -- IT'S -- IT'S IN THE FORM OF A POSTER, THOUGH, ISN'T IT?
MS. ROSENTHAL: NOT NECESSARILY. I DON'T THINK IT
SAYS POSTER.
MS. WALSH: ALL RIGHT.
MS. ROSENTHAL: IT JUST SAYS NOTICE.
31
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MS. WALSH: WELL, IT HAS TO BE DONE IN SIX
LANGUAGES, SO WOULDN'T IT BE A POSTER? I MEAN, YOU'RE GOING TO SAY IT IN
SIX LANGUAGES TO EVERY CUSTOMER? I DON'T -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
MS. ROSENTHAL: IT'S -- IT'S TO BE POSTED, IT'S NOT TO
BE GIVEN TO EVERY CUSTOMER.
MS. WALSH: SO IT'S NOTICE THAT NEEDS TO BE POSTED
BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A POSTER? I DON'T -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND. I'M
SORRY.
MS. ROSENTHAL: OKAY. THERE -- THERE ARE A
COUPLE OF ELEMENTS TO THIS BILL.
MS. WALSH: YEAH.
MS. ROSENTHAL: ONE OF THEM IS THAT THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WOULD CREATE A FOOD ALLERGY AWARENESS NOTICE ON
THE WEBSITE. ANOTHER PORTION IS THAT ON THE MENU OR ATTACHED TO THE
MENU SHOULD BE THE LANGUAGE, IF YOU HAVE A FOOD ALLERGY PLEASE NOTIFY
US.
MS. WALSH: OKAY.
MS. ROSENTHAL: AND RESTAURANTS SHOULD POST
NOTICE IN THE STAFF AREA IN LANGUAGE SPOKEN BY EMPLOYEES.
MS. WALSH: THAT'S THE ONE THAT I WAS REFERRING TO.
MS. ROSENTHAL: RIGHT. SO IT CAN BE A NOTICE. IT
CAN JUST BE ON A PIECE OF PAPER. IT'S DOESN'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE A
POSTER. IT'S NOT FOR THE PUBLIC THAT'S IN THE RESTAURANT, IT'S FOR THE STAFF.
MS. WALSH: SO THERE'S THAT PART FOR THE STAFF AND
THEN THERE'S THE PART ON THE MENU, AND THEN THERE'S THE PART THAT'S GOING
32
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
TO BE ON THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH'S WEBSITE --
MS. ROSENTHAL: THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.
MS. WALSH: THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH'S WEBSITE.
MS. ROSENTHAL: YEAH.
MS. WALSH: YEAH. AND ALSO THERE'S ANOTHER PART OF
THE BILL, ISN'T THERE, THAT SAYS THAT IF FOOD CAN BE ORDERED ON LINE, IF THEY
-- IF THE RESTAURANT, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS AN INTERNET PRESENCE THERE HAS TO
BE SOME TYPE OF A PROCEDURE WHERE THE CUSTOMER CAN ALERT THE FOOD
ESTABLISHMENT OF AN ALLERGY; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.
MS. WALSH: OKAY.
MS. ROSENTHAL: SO WHEN YOU ORDER ONLINE YOU
COULD SAY, YEAH, I'M ALLERGIC TO SPINACH, LET'S SAY.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. GREAT. SO, NOW THOSE -- THOSE
PROCEDURES, THOUGH, DON'T CURRENTLY EXIST IN STATUTE OR REGULATION,
CORRECT?
MS. ROSENTHAL: RIGHT.
MS. WALSH: SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE
COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH IS GOING TO BE TASKED THROUGH THIS LEGISLATION
TO -- TO COME UP WITH; IS THAT RIGHT?
MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, JUST THE PROCEDURES TO
FOLLOW IF A CUSTOMER INFORMS SOMEONE ON THE STAFF IF THEY HAVE AN
ALLERGY, WHAT TO DO AND PROCEDURES TO PREVENT CROSS-CONTACT AND WHAT
TO DO IF THERE'S A REACTION TO ANY OF THE FOOD.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. NOW IS THIS -- IS THIS RULE OR
33
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
THIS SET-UP IN THE LEGISLATION, IS THIS ALREADY IN EFFECT IN NEW YORK
CITY? DO YOU KNOW?
MS. ROSENTHAL: I DON'T BELIEVE ALL PARTS OF IT ARE.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. SOME OF IT, BUT MAYBE NOT ALL
OF IT?
MS. ROSENTHAL: IT -- IT MIGHT BE. I HAVE TO GO
CHECK MY NOTES, BUT YES.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD.
NOW WHAT ABOUT IF AN INDIVIDUAL -- A CUSTOMER IS ORDERING THROUGH,
LIKE, DOORDASH OR GRUBHUB OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? HOW -- HOW'S THAT
GOING TO BE SET UP SO THAT IF YOU'RE PLACING YOUR ORDER THROUGH ONE OF
THOSE APPS THAT THE -- THAT THE PERSON OR PEOPLE PREPARING THE FOOD
ACTUALLY BECOME ALERTED TO THE ALLERGY THAT THE CONSUMER IS SAYING THAT
THEY HAVE?
MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, JUST LIKE YOU SAY, I WANT
EXTRA SAUCE. HOWEVER THAT GETS TO THE CHEF, THE SAME WAY IT WOULD BE,
I'M ALLERGIC TO SPINACH.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND --
MS. ROSENTHAL: I DON'T WANT TO SAY A BAD THING
ABOUT SPINACH. I LOVE SPINACH. I PICKED A NEUTRAL VEGETABLE.
MS. WALSH: NOW THE -- I AGREE WITH YOU, I LOVE
SPINACH, TOO. SO ON -- ON PAGE 2 AROUND LINE 17 IT TALKS ABOUT THAT THE
FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT ON THE -- WAIT A MINUTE, I MIGHT BE IN THE
WRONG SECTION HERE. OH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STAFF. THE STAFF THAT IS
GOING TO BE TAKING YOUR ORDER OR -- THE STAFF THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE
34
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
ALERTING THAT YOU'VE GOT THIS ALLERGY WITHIN A FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT
COULD BE A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE. DOES THE BILL SPECIFY WHO STAFF IS
MEANT TO BE? IS IT EVERYBODY IN THE PLACE?
MS. ROSENTHAL: UM, LET ME SEE. WHAT LINE ARE
YOU ON?
MS. WALSH: HOLD ON A SECOND.
MS. ROSENTHAL: I MEAN, IT WOULD CERTAINLY --
MS. WALSH: PAGE 1, LINE 17. I SAID PAGE 2
MISTAKENLY, I'M SORRY.
MS. ROSENTHAL: YEAH. OKAY.
MS. WALSH: SO IN OTHER WORDS, WE HAVE TO COME
UP WITH PROCEDURES TO BE FOLLOWED IF A CUSTOMER INFORMS STAFF OF SUCH
FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT THAT THE CUSTOMER HAS A FOOD ALLERGY, AND
I'M -- I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT DOES STAFF MEAN?
MS. ROSENTHAL: UM, THAT WOULD BE WHOEVER YOU
PLACE THE ORDER TO OR SOMETIMES PEOPLE -- THERE'S A MAÎTRE D OR
SOMEONE WHO SHOWS YOU WHERE TO SIT. YOU MIGHT SAY, OH, I HAVE A
FOOD ALLERGY, AND THEY WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, TELL YOUR SERVER. LIKE
THAT.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IN
SOME INSTANCES I KNOW THAT THERE'S A WHOLE CONCEPT IN SOME
RESTAURANTS THAT HAVE, LIKE, TEAM SERVICE WHERE YOU COULD HAVE, YOU
KNOW, SEVERAL DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ACTUALLY SERVING YOU AT THE
TABLE FOR DIFFERENT PARTS OF YOUR MEAL.
MS. ROSENTHAL: RIGHT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MS. WALSH: SO IS IT -- IS IT YOUR INTENTION THAT
NOTIFICATION TO ONE STAFF MEMBER WOULD COUNT TO NOTIFICATION TO THE --
BECAUSE IT'S THE ATTORNEY IN ME THAT -- YOU KNOW, MY EARS GO UP WHEN I
HEAR ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I THINK ABOUT LIABILITY FOR THE
ESTABLISHMENTS IF THEY FAIL TO PREVENT AGAINST CROSS-CONTAMINATION OR --
OR THAT KIND OF THING.
MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, I GUESS IT'S UP TO THE
PERSON WITH THE ALLERGY, BUT I WOULD SAY THE MAIN SERVER.
MS. WALSH: OKAY.
MS. ROSENTHAL: BUT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE
NERVOUS YOU COULD TELL THE PERSON WHO BRINGS YOU THE BREAD OR -- OR
THINGS LIKE THAT. YEAH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE
THAT.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MA'AM.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU. SO I THINK IT'S A -- IT'S A
REAL LAUDABLE GOAL TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE FOOD
ALLERGIES CAN EAT OUT SAFELY. I HAVE TWO KIDS WHO HAVE TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE
NUT ALLERGIES AND CONTINUE TO HAVE THEM INTO THEIR 20'S. AND I KNOW
THAT IT WAS AN AWAKENING FOR ME TO REALIZE THAT THERE ARE SOME PLACES
THAT WE JUST CAN'T GO BECAUSE WE CAN'T FEEL -- I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WITH A
NUT ALLERGY YOU CAN'T GO TO A PLACE LIKE FIVE GUYS WHERE THEY'VE GOT
BIG GIANT BARRELS FULL OF PEANUTS EVERYWHERE. THERE'S JUST NOT -- YOU
JUST CAN'T SAFELY EAT THERE WITH YOUR -- WITH YOUR KIDS IF THEY'VE GOT A
36
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
NUT ALLERGY LIKE THAT. BUT I -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER -- I HAVE QUESTIONS
ABOUT WHETHER PUTTING UP A NOTICE THAT THE STAFF CAN READ IN SEVERAL
DIFFERENT LANGUAGES IS REALLY, LIKE, THE RIGHT WAY TO GO ABOUT THIS. AND
I ALSO THINK THAT TASKING THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO DEVELOP A
WHOLE BUNCH OF REGULATIONS THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN YET OR REALLY HAVE
VOTED ON CALLS TO MIND ISSUES WHERE WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY DELEGATED
RESPONSIBILITY TO OTHER COMMISSIONERS, AND INSTEAD OF US REALLY
DECIDING WHAT WE WANT TO SEE AND MAKING IT PART OF THE LAW. SO I DO
HAVE WORRIES ABOUT DELEGATING THOSE TYPES OF THINGS AS WELL. ALSO, I
KNOW THAT THE SPONSOR MENTIONED TO ME THAT SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS
NOTICE WAS REALLY A POSTER. BUT IT IS A POSTING THAT'S GOING UP FOR THE
BENEFITS OF EMPLOYEES TO READ AND BE RESPONSIBLE TO KNOW, POSTED IN A
NUMBER OF DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. AND I WOULD JUST SAY FOR THE BENEFIT OF
MY COLLEAGUES THAT WE ALREADY HAVE -- I -- IT'S BEEN A SLOW CREEP UP
YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR OF THE POSTINGS THAT WE REQUIRE RESTAURANTS TO
DO. WE HAVE THINGS FROM BLOOD DONATION LEAVE, DISCRIMINATION NOTICE,
EQUAL PAY LAW, FRINGE BENEFITS NOTICE, NEW YORK CORRECTION LAW, NEW
YORK MINIMUM WAGE, NEW YORK NO SMOKING POSTER AND CLEAN
INDOOR AIR ACT. IT GOES ON AND ON AND ON. I THINK THERE ARE, LIKE, 14.
AND THEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS A WHOLE BUNCH, TOO, THAT I WON'T
READ OUT LOUD. SO I THINK THAT YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW, I
THINK SOMETHING LIKE A FOOD ALLERGY IS SOMETHING THAT IF YOU'RE THE
PARENT OR AN INDIVIDUAL WITH THE ALLERGY, YOU KNOW AND YOU'RE GOING TO
MAKE IT VERY CLEAR TO YOUR SERVERS, WHETHER YOU'RE IN A FAST FOOD PLACE
OR AT A RESTAURANT, ABOUT THOSE ALLERGIES. YOU HAVE TO. AND I THINK
37
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
PREVENTING CROSS-CONTAMINATION IS IMPORTANT. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT
PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE FOOD SERVICE INDUSTRY, THEY ALSO ARE VERY WELL
AWARE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH FOOD ALLERGIES AND CERTAINLY TO SERVE THE
CUSTOMER DON'T WANT TO SEE ANYTHING GO WRONG EITHER.
THERE HAS BEEN NO PRIOR VOTE ON THIS BILL. THIS WILL BE
OUR FIRST TIME. AND I WOULD NOTE THAT THERE IS OPPOSITION FROM THE
FOOD INDUSTRY ALLIANCE AND MCDONALD'S, AND BASICALLY WHAT THEY'VE
SAID IS THAT THEY FEEL THAT THERE ARE ALREADY TOO MANY POSTER
REQUIREMENTS AND THAT THE BILL REQUIRES A FOOD SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT TO
PROVIDE A CUSTOMER WITH PROCEDURES FOR CROSS-CONTAMINATION OR
CROSS-CONTACT, BUT THESE PROCEDURES DO NOT CURRENTLY EXIST IN STATUTE OR
REGULATION.
SO, ANYWAY THOSE -- I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S GOAL IN
TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE BE -- BE SAFER IN RESTAURANT ENVIRONMENTS. MY
QUESTION IS ABOUT WHETHER THIS BILL IS REALLY THE CORRECT WAY TO ADDRESS
IT. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MS.
WALSH.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 2344-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY
MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO
CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY
38
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
PROVIDED.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S CONCERN ABOUT PEOPLE WITH FOOD ALLERGIES.
INDEED, MY WIFE IS A VEGETARIAN AND SHE IS ALLERGIC TO MEAT. AND
SOMETIMES WE'LL GO TO SOME PLACE AND THEY'LL SAY, OH, THERE'S A VEGGIE
BURGER AND WE DISCOVER IT'S GRILLED ON THE SAME GRILL AS A -- AS A MEAT
PATTY ON EITHER SIDE OF IT, AND THAT WILL MAKE HER SICK. AND I HAVE
FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES THAT ARE ALLERGIC TO ONIONS OR GARLIC OR A
COMMON ALLERGY IS PEANUTS. BUT BELIEVE ME, THOSE FOLKS THAT ARE --
WHO HAVE FOOD ALLERGIES, THEY KNOW IT AND THEY'RE QUICK TO POINT IT OUT
AND THEY'RE THE RIGHT ONES TO SAY TO THE WAITER WHAT'S GOING ON. IN MY
LAW FIRM I HAVE ABOUT 12 SQUARE FEET OF POSTERS PER EMPLOYEE. AND
EVERY YEAR I GET A LETTER URGING ME TO SPEND A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF
MONEY TO UPDATE THEM. AND OF COURSE THOSE LETTERS COME AND SAY IF I
DON'T I WILL BE IN VIOLATION AND THE LABOR DEPARTMENT WOULD FINE ME.
SO NOW IN MY DISTRICT WHERE WE PROBABLY SPEAK MAYBE THREE OR FOUR
LANGUAGES AT MOST, WE HAVE LITTLE BIT OF FRENCH CANADIAN AND A LOT OF
SPANISH, ENGLISH, NOW WE HAVE A POSTER THAT'S IN MULTIPLE LANGUAGES
THAT WE PUT ON TOP OF THE POSTERS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE THAT ARE NEXT TO
POSTERS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE. AND IT'S AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN, AN
ADDITIONAL EXPENSE AND ADDITIONAL LIABILITY FOR EMPLOYERS WITH VIRTUALLY
NO ASCERTAINABLE IMPROVEMENT IN PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY.
AND SO WHILE IT'S ALWAYS FUN TO ADD MORE AND MORE
39
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
REGULATIONS ON BUSINESSES IN NEW YORK STATE, I THINK WE NEED TO BE
CAREFUL THAT WE JUST KEEP ADDING MORE AND MORE WITHOUT DOING ANY
COST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS. AND FOR THAT REASON I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST THIS.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MS. ROSENTHAL TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. ROSENTHAL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. A 2020 STUDY BY FARE, A FOOD ALLERGY RESEARCH AND
EDUCATION ORGANIZATION, FOUND THAT RESTAURANTS ARE THE SECOND-MOST
COMMON LOCATION FOR FOOD ALLERGY REACTIONS. RESEARCHERS ESTIMATE THAT
32 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE FOOD ALLERGIES, INCLUDING 5.6 MILLION
CHILDREN UNDER AGE 18. THE CDC REPORTS THE PREVALENCE OF FOOD
ALLERGY IN CHILDREN INCREASED BY 50 PERCENT BETWEEN 1997 AND 2011.
EVERY THREE MINUTES A FOOD ALLERGY REACTION SENDS SOMEONE TO THE
EMERGENCY ROOM, AND EACH YEAR IN THE U.S. 200,000 PEOPLE REQUIRE
EMERGENCY MEDICAL CARE FOR ALLERGIC REACTIONS TO FOOD. THAT IS WHY IT'S
IMPERATIVE THAT PEOPLE COMMUNICATE PROPERLY SO THAT WHAT THEY ARE
SERVED DOES NOT -- WAS NOT IN CROSS CONTACT WITH AN ALLERGEN, AND
PEOPLE WHO SERVE FOOD UNDERSTAND THE CUSTOMER'S NEED TO AVOID CERTAIN
FOODS. I DEVELOPED THIS LEGISLATION WITH SHAZIA RAFI AND HER DAUGHTER,
DR. ZARA ATAL, TWO GREAT FOOD ALLERGY AWARENESS ADVOCATES. ZARA HAS
FOOD ALLERGIES AND HAS EXPERIENCED ALLERGIC REACTIONS DINING AT
RESTAURANTS. SO PROVIDING STAFF WITH CLEAR GUIDANCE AND CHEFS HOW TO
HANDLE FOOD ALLERGY IS THE SUREST WAY TO ENSURE THAT NOBODY WILL GO
40
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
INTO ANAPHYLAXIS AND THEY CAN ENJOY THEIR MEAL KNOWING THAT THEIR FOOD
IS SAFE FOR THEM TO EAT. AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. ROSENTHAL IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. GALLAHAN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AS THE
OWNER OF A FOOD TRAILER, WE HAVE VERY LITTLE ROOM TO POST NOTICES. AND
THEY HAVE TO BE POSTED SO THAT THE CUSTOMERS CAN SEE THEM. SO WE
HAVE A SIDE WINDOW ON OUR FOOD TRAILER. WITH ALL THE NOTICES THAT ARE
ON THE SIDE WINDOW OF THE FOOD TRAILER NOW, WE HAVE TO UNDERNEATH FOR
THE SIGN. PRETTY SOON WE'RE GOING TO BE TAKING ORDERS OUT THE BACK DOOR
BECAUSE, QUITE FRANKLY, WE'VE GOT SO MANY POSTINGS ON OUR SIDE
WINDOW, I WISH I WOULD HAVE BUILT THAT TRAILER WITH A MUCH LARGER
WINDOW.
AND FOR THAT -- FOR THAT REASON AND -- AND MANY OTHERS
-- I'VE BEEN IN THE FOOD INDUSTRY FOR MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS. MAYBE
THERE ARE SOME -- SOME ROGUE RESTAURANTEURS OUT THERE THAT ARE NOT
TAKING CARE OF THEIR CUSTOMERS OR LISTENING TO THEIR NEEDS, BUT AS MY
COLLEAGUE STATED EARLIER, HIS WIFE HAS A -- A BEEF ALLERGY. AND IF
SOMEONE HAS A BEEF ALLERGY AND THEY COME TO OUR ESTABLISHMENT WE
COOK IT ON A SEPARATE GRILL. WE TAKE PRECAUTIONS. IN ALL THE YEARS THAT
I'VE BEEN IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS, I'VE NEVER HAD A SITUATION WHERE I
WORKED THAT I HAD -- I HAD A PATRON HAVE AN ALLERGIC REACTION TO THE
FOOD WHILE IN THE RESTAURANT. I CAN'T SAY WHEN THEY WENT HOME, MAYBE
POSSIBLY, BUT IN THE RESTAURANT. ANYONE THAT KNOWS THEY HAVE A FOOD
41
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
ALLERGY BRINGS IT TO THE IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THEIR WAITER OR THEIR
WAITRESS OR THEIR BUS PERSON OR TALKS DIRECTLY TO THE -- TO THE CHEF. I
CAN'T IMAGINE GOING TO A RESTAURANT AND HAVING AN ALLERGY AND NOT
LETTING SOMEBODY KNOW ABOUT IT. I MYSELF HAVE ALLERGIES TO DIFFERENT
THINGS AND I WANT TO KNOW IMMEDIATELY WHAT'S IN THE INGREDIENTS.
WHEN WE DO CHICKEN BARBECUES, I HAVE JUGS THAT I KEEP BECAUSE
PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT ALLERGIES. AND I KEEP THAT JUG THERE SO THEY CAN
READ THE INGREDIENTS THEMSELVES ON THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S
NOTHING IN THERE THAT IS GOING TO AFFECT THEIR HEALTH. SO IN ALL THE YEARS
-- AND IT'S BEEN CLOSE TO 100 THAT I HAVE BEEN IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS,
I HAD NO ISSUES WITH THIS WHATSOEVER, AND I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT
RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE IN THIS INDUSTRY DO.
AND FOR THAT -- THAT REASON I WILL BE VOTING IN THE
NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GALLAHAN IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE RECORD MY
COLLEAGUES MR. DIPIETRO, MR. MCDONOUGH AND MR. NORRIS IN THE
NEGATIVE.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. SO
NOTED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
42
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
SPEAKER. PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MS. PHEFFER AMATO IN THE
NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 37, CALENDAR NO. 464, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00797, CALENDAR NO.
464, ZEBROWSKI, SEAWRIGHT, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC
SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
TO DEVELOP A FORMULA FOR THE CALCULATION OF A RESIDENTIAL WATER COST
INDEX; REQUIRING EACH WATERWORKS CORPORATION AND MUNICIPAL WATER
SYSTEM SERVING 1,000 CUSTOMERS OR MORE TO CALCULATE AND SUBMIT TO THE
PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION ITS RESIDENTIAL WATER COST INDEX; AND
REQUIRING THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO PUBLISH A REPORT ON THE
RESIDENTIAL WATER COST INDEX OF EACH APPLICABLE WATERWORKS CORPORATION
AND MUNICIPAL WATER SYSTEM.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS
REQUESTED, MR. ZEBROWSKI.
MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND
GOOD AFTERNOON, MY COLLEAGUES. THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THE PUBLIC
SERVICE COMMISSION TO ESTABLISH A WATER COST INDEX, WHICH WOULD BE A
MEASUREMENT OF THE ANNUAL COST OF WATER FOR AN AVERAGE SINGLE-FAMILY
HOUSEHOLD SERVED BY A PUBLIC OR A PRIVATE WATER SUPPLIER. THE PURPOSE
43
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
OF THIS BILL IS TO PROVIDE A TOOL FOR COMPARISON OF WATER RATES. I DON'T
KNOW ABOUT MY COLLEAGUES, I ASSUME THIS TO BE TRUE, BUT HERE IN
ROCKLAND COUNTY WE HAVE SEEN SKYROCKETING WATER RATES, AND
OFTENTIMES ARE PRESENTED WITH RATE CASES BEFORE THE PUBLIC SERVICE
COMMISSION WITH AT TIMES DOUBLE-DIGIT INCREASES. WHEN YOU ATTEMPT
TO TESTIFY OR DIG INTO THESE RATE INCREASES TO EITHER OPPOSE THEM OR TO
ANALYZE THEM, OFTENTIMES YOU'RE MET WITH DIFFICULTY BECAUSE THE WAY
THAT WATER SYSTEMS BILL AROUND THE STATE IS WILDLY DISPARATE. ONE WATER
SYSTEM MAY USE GALLONS, ANOTHER WATER SYSTEM MAY USE THOUSANDS OF
GALLONS, CUBIC FEET, CENTUM CUBIC FEET. I TOOK A LOOK AT MY WATER BILL
EARLIER AND I USED 5 -- 5 HUNDREDTHS OF CUBIC FEET. NOW WHEN YOU
ATTEMPT TO COMPARE THAT TO ANY OTHER SYSTEM IN GALLONS OR THOUSANDS OF
GALLONS, IT COMES -- IT BECOMES VERY DIFFICULT. SO YOU'RE PRESENTED WITH
THESE RATE INCREASE CASES AND YOU HAVE AN INABILITY TO LOOK AT WHAT
OTHER SYSTEMS ARE DOING TO TRY TO SHOW WHETHER OR NOT THOSE RATES ARE
JUSTIFIABLE OR NOT. SO THIS WOULD HOPEFULLY PROVIDE RATEPAYERS, ALL OF
US, OTHER FOLKS AROUND THE STATE, WITH SOME AVERAGE DATA SO THAT EACH
YEAR WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT OUR WATER SYSTEMS ARE CHARGING AND TRY TO
MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE THE MOST COST-EFFECTIVE FOR ALL OF OUR
CONSTITUENTS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LEMONDES.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL
YOU YIELD?
44
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, MR. SPEAKER, I YIELD.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. JUST A FEW QUESTIONS.
I RECOGNIZED THAT THE PREVIOUS GOVERNOR'S VETO WITH RESPECT TO THE
FORMULA USED HAS BEEN ADDRESSED IN THIS VERSION. HOWEVER, I'D LIKE TO
ASK IF WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT IS PROBLEMATIC SINCE IT'S BASED ON A
SINGLE-FAMILY HOME AND DOES NOT INCORPORATE COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL
CUSTOMERS.
MR. ZEBROWSKI: SO, THAT WAS -- SO THE GOVERNOR'S
VETO DIDN'T LIKE OUR LANGUAGE LAST TIME BECAUSE IT RECOGNIZED THAT THERE
ARE THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CUSTOMERS. SO WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS THE
BEST WAY TO GO AHEAD FOR A FIRST SHOT AT THIS WAS TO FOCUS ON ONE TYPE OF
CUSTOMER. THAT WAY IT WILL -- AND THEY'LL KIND OF FOLLOW, RIGHT? SO IF
WE KNOW WHAT AN AVERAGE SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSEHOLD IS PAYING IN WATER,
WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE A SENSE WHAT ALSO ARE THE RATES IN THOSE OTHER
AREAS. BUT CERTAINLY IN THE FUTURE IF WE GET THIS UP AND RUNNING AND IT
PROVES HELPFUL, WE COULD PERHAPS LOOK AT ESTABLISHING AN AVERAGE INDEX
FOR THOSE AS WELL.
MR. LEMONDES: THAT'S MY POINT EXACTLY. DON'T
YOU THINK THAT THERE COULD BE GROSS ERRORS IN HOW THOSE RATES WERE USED
WHEN YOU'RE TAKING THE DIFFERENCE BASED ON SCALE BETWEEN SINGLE-
FAMILY HOMES AND THEN, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL
CUSTOMERS?
MR. ZEBROWSKI: I'M SORRY, I DON'T REALLY
UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION. WHY WOULD PROVIDING AN AVERAGE COST INDEX
45
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
FOR RESIDENTIAL DO ANYTHING TO THE OTHER RATEPAYERS, INDUSTRIAL OR
OTHERWISE?
MR. LEMONDES: IT -- THAT'S -- THAT'S MY QUESTION.
WOULD IT -- WOULD IT IMPACT THEM?
MR. ZEBROWSKI: NO, I DON'T -- NO, I DON'T THINK IT
WOULD IMPACT THEM. LOOK, AT THE END OF THE DAY RIGHT NOW THIS IS JUST
TAKING WHAT IS THE CURRENT RATE STRUCTURES AND THE CHARGES THAT OUR
WATER SYSTEM ARE LEVYING UPON CUSTOMERS AND TRYING TO HAVE THE PUBLIC
SERVICE COMMISSION PUT THEM IN A -- A READABLE AND UNDERSTANDABLE
WAY. SO WE'LL START WITH RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS HERE. WE'LL GET A SENSE
OF SORT OF WHAT THE AVERAGE RATES ARE ACROSS THE STATE. I KNOW WHEN I
LOOK AT MY CURRENT WATER SYSTEM'S RATES, I HAVE TO GO BACK TO LIKE THE
COMPTROLLER'S STUDY FROM A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WHERE -- WHERE HE
ACTUALLY SHOWED THAT MY WATER SYSTEM IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE WATER IN
THE STATE OF NEW YORK. BUT I HAVE TO GO TO THAT COMPTROLLER'S REPORT
BECAUSE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND ANY AGGREGATE OR OTHER DATA AROUND
THE STATE. SO THIS WILL JUST PROVIDE THAT. NOW, IT WILL PROVIDE THIS IN
THIS ONE AREA OF RESIDENTIAL RATES. I THINK IT WILL PROBABLY BE CORRECT
THAT IF YOU HAVE THE HIGHEST RESIDENTIAL RATES, YOU PROBABLY HAVE THE
HIGHEST WATER RATES IN THE OTHER CATEGORIES AS WELL. BUT IN THE FUTURE
WE COULD PROBABLY LOOK AT THOSE, TOO, AND MAYBE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE
TO COME UP WITH TWO OTHER INDEXES, TOO. YOU'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO
BALANCE, RIGHT, COMING UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S EFFICIENT AND SIMPLE
AND UNDERSTANDABLE WITH ALSO BEING AS THOROUGH AS POSSIBLE.
MR. LEMONDES: SO, THANK YOU. I -- I READ WHERE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
THE FORMULA CAN BE UPDATED AT THE DISCRETION OF THE COMMISSION. DOES
THAT INCLUDE STAKEHOLDERS?
MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, THE COMMISSION CAN --
CAN EVALUATE WHATEVER INFORMATION THEY WANT TO EVALUATE IN THE
PROCESS, BUT IT'S THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION THAT WILL BE TASKED
WITH THIS. BUT ONCE AGAIN, THIS WON'T BE CHANGING ANY RATES. THIS IS
JUST COMING UP WITH AN -- AN INDEX OF THE CURRENT RATES.
MR. LEMONDES: SO WITH RESPECT TO THE
MUNICIPALITIES, THOUGH, THEY'RE ALREADY REQUIRED TO SUBMIT AN ANNUAL
REPORT TO THE COMMISSION. WOULDN'T THIS BE -- OR HOW WOULD THIS NOT
BE REDUNDANT FOR THEM?
MR. ZEBROWSKI: BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT ANY OF
THESE ANNUAL REPORTS PROVIDE AVERAGE DATA. SO IF YOU'RE A WATER SYSTEM
AND YOU'RE TELLING EVERYBODY WHAT YOU DO IN HUNDREDS OF CUBIC FEET,
WELL, THAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO COMPARE TO ANOTHER WATER SYSTEM THAT'S
DOING GALLONS OR THOUSANDS OF GALLONS. I MEAN, LIKE I SAID EARLIER,
LOOKING AT MY BILL - AND I'M SURE, YOU KNOW, YOUR CONSTITUENTS OR ALL OF
OUR CONSTITUENTS CAN LOOK AT THEIR BILL - IT SAYS 5 AT $5.30 -- 34 -- I'M
SORRY, 5 AT $5.3421 EFF. AND UNDER THAT IS COW 5 AT $1.31 EFF.
AND THERE'S A FACILITY CHARGE, A MAKE WHOLE SURCHARGE AND A
RECONCILIATION BEFORE I GET MY TOTAL CHARGES. YOUR BILL PROBABLY LOOKS
TOTALLY DIFFERENT. SO IF YOU AND I WERE GOING TO SIT DOWN AND TRY TO
ATTEMPT TO SEE WHAT YOUR WATER SYSTEM CHARGE IS COMPARED TO MY
WATER SYSTEM, WE'D PROBABLY BE SITTING THERE ALL DAY, AND THAT'S WHAT
THIS SEEKS TO FIX.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MR. LEMONDES: SO ON THAT POINT, RECOGNIZING THE
OPPOSITION FROM THE CONFERENCE OF MAYORS AND MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS,
DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S VALID TO STILL GO THROUGH WITH THIS RECOGNIZING THAT
ALL OF THOSE OFFICIALS ENTRUSTED WITH HAVING TO IMPLEMENT THIS ARE IN
OPPOSITION TO IT?
MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE --
ANY -- ANY OFFICIAL WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PROVIDING THE AVERAGE
COST BASED UPON A FORMULA BY THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO THEIR
CONSTITUENTS.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE YOUR
RESPONSES.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. LEMONDES: SO, RECOGNIZING THE SPONSOR'S
ATTEMPT HERE, I THINK THE -- THE ATTEMPT HAS -- HAS VALUE. BUT I AM
PERSONALLY GOING TO VOTE AGAINST THIS BASED ON THE FOLLOWING REASONS
AND URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO SO. THIS WILL INCREASE COST, IT WILL
INCREASE -- IT WILL INCREASE THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN, AND IT WILL ALSO --
IT -- IT ALSO POSES A PROBLEM BECAUSE THOSE OFFICIALS, AS I PREVIOUSLY
CITED, THE BIPARTISAN CONFERENCE OF MAYORS AND MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS
HAVE PUT IN WRITING THEIR OPPOSITION TO THIS.
SO BASED ON THOSE REASONS, I URGE ALL COLLEAGUES TO
VOTE NO. I DON'T THINK THIS IS -- THIS IS READY YET. I THINK WITH FURTHER
ADJUSTMENTS IT COULD BE, BUT IT IS NOT NOW. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
48
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MR. MONTESANO.
MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, MR. SPEAKER, I YIELD.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS,
SIR.
MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU. MR. ZEBROWSKI,
THE -- IN ESSENCE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR HERE IS A UNIFORM BILLING TYPE
OF STATEMENT OR SYSTEM?
MR. ZEBROWSKI: NOT A UNIFORM BILL. THEY'LL STILL
BE ABLE TO ISSUE THE BILLS AS THEY CURRENTLY ISSUE THEM AND MEASURE
WATER AS IT SEEMS TO BE MOST EFFICIENT FOR THEM. BUT THIS BILL WILL HAVE
THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION COME UP WITH A FORMULA AND THEN POST
IT ANNUALLY SO THAT THERE'S AN AVERAGE COST FOR ALL THE SYSTEMS REGARDLESS
OF HOW THEY MEASURE THEIR WATER USAGE OR BILL THEIR CUSTOMERS.
MR. MONTESANO: BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE
CONFRONTED WITH THIS ISSUE LIKE THIS OUT IN NASSAU COUNTY, THAT WITH THE
HELP OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE FROM THE DISTRICT WE WERE ABLE TO GET SOME
-- SOME CHANGE. WE WENT FROM A PRIVATE WATER SYSTEM, HOPEFULLY
WE'RE MOVING INTO A PUBLIC WATER SYSTEM. BUT STILL, THE COST FOR ALL
THESE WATER DISTRICTS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT, WHETHER THEY BE A
MUNICIPAL WATER SYSTEM OR A PRIVATE WATER SYSTEM. THEY ALL DO HAVE
DIFFERENT EXPENSES, WHETHER IT BE THEIR PAYROLL EXPENSES, THEIR
49
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
INFRASTRUCTURE EXPENSES, HOW MUCH THEY CHARGE FOR HYDRANT RENTALS. SO
I UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE PRIVATE HOUSES. THAT'S THE ONE YOU WANT TO ZERO
IN ON FIRST. BUT I -- BUT I THINK REALLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS THAT I
THINK THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION NEEDS TO EXERT SOME KIND OF
CONTROL OVER THE WATER PROVIDERS AS TO WHAT THEIR COSTS ARE AND WHAT
THEY COULD PASS ON TO THE CONSUMER. RIGHT NOW WE'RE GOING TO BE
SEEING AN UPTICK, ESPECIALLY OUT ON LONG ISLAND BECAUSE OF ALL THE NEW
INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HAD TO BE BUILT BY THE MUNICIPAL WATER SYSTEMS TO
DEAL WITH ALL THE NEW EMERGING CONTAMINANTS THAT ARE BEING FOUND, AND
THEY HAD TO DESIGN EQUIPMENT TO FILTER THEM OUT. SO IN SOME CASES THEY
HAVE TO BUILD NEW HOUSING FOR THOSE STRUCTURES. THE -- THE EQUIPMENT
IS VERY EXPENSIVE. SO IT'S DRIVING UP THE COST, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERABLY.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS BILL IS GOING TO DO IN THE SENSE OF THAT, BUT --
EXCEPT FOR SHOWING AN AVERAGE. BUT YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT AN AVERAGE
BY COUNTY OR BY REGION BECAUSE IT'S JUST UNPREDICTABLE AS TO WHAT THESE
NUMBERS COULD, YOU KNOW, RESULT IN. NOW, HOW DO YOU ANTICIPATE
WHEN THIS GETS DONE, THIS REPORT, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THEY ALREADY
HAVE AT THEIR FINGERTIPS AND IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TRANSMITTING IT TO THE
PSC?
MR. ZEBROWSKI: FIRST LET ME SAY I AGREE WITH
YOU, MR. MONTESANO. AND SO THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO GIVE US A
COMPARISON TOOL SO WE CAN LOOK AT ALL THOSE THINGS. BECAUSE I FIND IT,
EVEN AS A POLICY MAKER, REALLY UNDECIPHERABLE AT TIMES WHEN YOU GO
BEFORE THESE RATE CASES AND TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT. LIKE I MENTIONED
EARLIER, IN -- IN MY CURRENT WATER BILL A FACILITY CHARGE, A MAKE WHOLE
50
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
SURCHARGE, A RECONCILIATION. WHY THESE THINGS ARE -- ARE SO
INDECIPHERABLE IS BEYOND ME. AND HOPEFULLY IF WE CAN HAVE SOME
MORE INFORMATION FROM THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION WE'LL BE ABLE
TO BREAK THAT DOWN A LITTLE BIT. I'M SORRY, MR. MONTESANO. IN ME
ATTEMPTING TO ANSWER YOUR -- YOUR --
MR. MONTESANO: IT'S OKAY.
MR. ZEBROWSKI: -- (INAUDIBLE), I FORGOT YOUR
QUESTION. COULD YOU GIVE IT TO ME AGAIN?
MR. MONTESANO: NO, IT'S -- YOU BASICALLY
ANSWERED WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. I JUST WANT TO KNOW ABOUT DO THESE
WATER COMPANIES ALREADY POSSESS THIS INFORMATION IN THEIR ANNUAL
REPORTS THAT THEY JUST HAVE TO TRANSMIT IT TO THE PSC OR DO THEY HAVE TO
CREATE A WHOLE NEW TYPE OF REPORT TO GIVE TO THE PSC?
MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, SORRY. I THINK THIS
INFORMATION IS READILY OBTAINABLE, IF NOT ALREADY SUBMITTED BY THE WATER
SYSTEMS, JUST NOT IN A WAY THAT IS EASILY READABLE OR DIGESTIBLE BY
RATEPAYERS OR BY FOLKS LIKE YOU OR ME. SO I THINK -- WELL, THE PUBLIC
SERVICE COMMISSION WILL COME UP WITH A UNIFORM SET OF FACTORS THAT
WILL LOOK AT THINGS LIKE USAGE FEES, TAXES, SEASONAL RATE STRUCTURES, ET
CETERA, AND THEY'LL COME UP WITH THIS FORMULA SO IT'S NOT LIKE EVERY
WATER SYSTEM IS COMING UP WITH THEIR OWN FORMULA. AND THEN IT WILL
BE JUST A MATTER OF SOMEBODY PUNCHING IN THEIR DATA INTO THIS FORMULA.
I CAN'T IMAGINE IT'LL TAKE TOO LONG IF -- IF NOT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE 15, 30
MINUTES FOR SOMEBODY TO DO. I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT, MR. MONTESANO,
THAT WE DO LIMIT THIS TO WATER SYSTEMS THAT ARE SERVING OVER 1,000
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
CUSTOMERS SO AS TO NOT GET INVOLVED IN THE SMALL NEIGHBORHOOD WATER
SYSTEMS. THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WATER SYSTEMS AROUND THE STATE. SO
ACTUALLY, I THINK THERE'S -- MY DATA SHOWS 8,507 WATER SYSTEMS IN THE
STATE, AND THIS BILL WOULD ONLY APPLY TO 768 OF THEM. SO WHILE THAT'S A
SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL NUMBER OF SYSTEMS, IT ACTUALLY IS A VAST
MAJORITY OF THE CUSTOMERS BECAUSE MOST CUSTOMERS ARE SERVED BY VERY
LARGE SYSTEMS.
MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR.
ZEBROWSKI. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 797. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER
WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE
MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. MANY OF MY
COLLEAGUES WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS BILL, NO DOUBT, BECAUSE IT PROVIDES
AN ADDITIONAL DISCLOSURE TO CONSUMERS SO THEY CAN COMPARE HOW THEIR
WATER RATES ARE COMPARED TO OTHER JURISDICTIONS. AND I APPRECIATE THAT
TRANSPARENCY, AND -- AND I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL SUPPORT
THAT. FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IT'S AN EXPENSIVE BUT MEANINGLESS
COMPARISON, BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE WATER JUGS NEXT
52
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
DOOR TO GET CHEAPER WATER. I MEAN, IF YOU'RE IN A MUNICIPALITY, IF YOU
WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH YOUR WATER RATE IS FOR RESIDENTIAL YOU LOOK AT
YOUR BILL. THAT'S THE MOST MEANINGFUL RATE. AND THE FACT THAT THE WATER
MAY BE MORE EXPENSIVE OR LESS EXPENSIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE STATE
OR IN A DIFFERENT COUNTY OR EVEN IN DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITY IN MY OPINION
REALLY KIND OF MISSES THE MARK. BUT WHAT IS GUARANTEED UNDER THIS BILL
IS THAT OUR WATER COMPANIES WILL BE INCURRING ADDITIONAL COSTS TO
PREPARE THIS REPORT. AND SO THOSE OF US WHO HAVE TO RELY ON THAT WATER
AND HAVE TO PAY THE RATE NO MATTER WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE I THINK ARE
GOING TO BE PAYING HIGHER RATES SO THAT WE KNOW HOW MUCH HIGHER
WE'RE PAYING COMPARED TO EVERYONE ELSE. AND SO I JUST DON'T SEE THE
PURPOSE OF THE BILL. BUT I KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT DOES GET MORE
INFORMATION THAT IF YOU WANT TO -- I SUPPOSE IF YOU'RE SHOPPING FOR A
HOUSE IN A DIFFERENT LOCALE AND YOUR -- THE PRICE OF WATER IS A FACTOR IN
YOUR PURCHASE THEN THIS WOULD BE HELPFUL. BUT IF YOU'RE LIVING WHERE
YOU'RE LIVING AND YOU'RE JUST PAYING THE BILL IT ISN'T GOING TO HELP, IT'S
JUST GOING TO RAISE THE COST.
FOR THAT REASON I'LL BE A NO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MS. GRIFFIN.
MS. GRIFFIN: THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO
EXPLAIN -- EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS
IMPORTANT LEGISLATION FORWARD. ON LONG ISLAND WE HAVE MANY
(INAUDIBLE), ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO PRIVATE WATER RATES. ANYTHING
53
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
WE CAN DO TO PROVIDE TRANSPARENCY TOWARDS OUR CUSTOMERS IS KEY.
ESTABLISHING A REPORTING OF RESIDENTIAL WATER COST INDEXES IS A STEP IN
THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GRIFFIN IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. MANKTELOW.
MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. JUST TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. HAVING BEEN A FORMER TOWN
SUPERVISOR AND HAVING OUR VILLAGE DISSOLVE AND TAKING OUR VILLAGE OVER,
THEY HAD A WATER PLANT AND WE HAD TO TAKE OVER THE WHOLE -- THE WHOLE
WATER SYSTEM. AND IN UPSTATE -- I'M SORRY, IN RURAL AREAS THE WATER
RATES ARE SO MUCH DIFFERENT. THERE'S SO MANY MORE VARIABLES. HOW OLD
IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE? HOW OLD ARE THE PIPES? WHERE ARE YOU GETTING
THE WATER FROM? HOW FAR IS IT TO GET TO WHERE THE PLANT IS? SOME --
SOME OF OUR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES DRAW FROM LAKE ONTARIO, SOME FROM
CANANDAIGUA LAKE. SOME FROM WELLS, SOME NEED TO BE SOFTENED, SOME
NEED OTHER STUFF ADDED TO THE WATER. AND IT MAY BE OKAY FOR A CITY AREA
TO LOOK AT THIS WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING AT ONE SOURCE OF WATER COMING IN
WITH A -- WITH A WIDE -- A WIDE SPECTRUM OF INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THE CITY.
BUT FOR OUR RURAL AREAS, MANY OF OUR SMALL COMMUNITIES HAVE, YOU
KNOW, A WELL, A BACKUP FROM A -- FROM A NEIGHBORING TOWN. IT WOULD
BE PRETTY TOUGH TO DO THIS. AND I THINK THEY'RE DOING A GOOD JOB AND I
THINK WE AS LOCAL OFFICIALS BACK HOME DO A GOOD JOB OF LETTING OUR
PEOPLE KNOW HOW MUCH THEIR WATER IS, WHAT WAS THE TRUE COST, AND IF
54
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
NOT WE HAVE PUBLIC HEARINGS.
SO I'D LOVE TO SUPPORT THIS BUT I CAN'T RIGHT NOW
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK WELL FOR -- FOR CERTAIN AREAS IN MY DISTRICT. SO
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. ZEBROWSKI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANKS, MR. SPEAKER. I DON'T
WANT TO BELABOR THE -- THE DEBATE HERE, BUT JUST TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL
THING WHILE EXPLAINING MY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, WE HAVE NOT
RECEIVED ANY MEMOS OF OPPOSITION. SO I KNOW DURING THE DEBATE IT
WAS SUGGESTED THAT NYCOM AND MAYBE SOME MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS
OPPOSED THIS. PERHAPS A COUPLE FOLKS EXPRESSED SOME OPPOSITION TO
SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES, BUT WE HAVE RECEIVED NO OFFICIAL OPPOSITION.
I'VE RECEIVED NO PHONE CALLS, NO CORRESPONDENCE FROM ANYBODY IN THE
MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT SUGGESTING THAT THEY DON'T SUPPORT THIS. AND
THIS BILL, AS WAS SAID EARLIER, I THINK WAS PASSED UNANIMOUSLY, I THINK.
AND ALTHOUGH IT WAS VETOED BY THE GOVERNOR AND WE DO BELIEVE WE
HAVE ADDRESSED THAT VETO MESSAGE, IT'S CERTAINLY BEEN AROUND FOR A BIT.
SO ANY OF THESE ASSOCIATIONS COULD HAVE AVAILED THEMSELVES OF EITHER
MEMOING OR CONTACTING OUR OFFICE.
SO FOR ALL THE -- THAT REASON AND ALL THE PRIOR REASONS
DURING THE DEBATE, MR. SPEAKER, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. LEMONDES TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
55
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'D LIKE
TO ADDRESS THE -- THE STATEMENT THAT WAS JUST MADE. I HAVE RIGHT HERE --
I'M READING IT -- MEMORANDUM IN OPPOSITION BECAUSE IT WOULD CREATE
AN UNFUNDED MANDATE IF THIS WERE TO BE ENACTED. AND IT IS DATED
MARCH 22, 2022. IT WAS SENT TO ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI AND SENATOR
COMRIE, AND IT IS SIGNED RR -- I CAN'T MAKE OUT THE NAME ON THE
SIGNATURE, BUT IT IS THE NYCOM MEMORANDUM. HERE IT IS FOR ALL TO SEE.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. PLEASE
RECORD MY COLLEAGUES MR. DIPIETRO AND MR. NORRIS IN THE NEGATIVE.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED. THANK
YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU
COULD PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MR. EPSTEIN IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS
PIECE OF LEGISLATION.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERRUPT OUR PROCEEDINGS VERY BRIEFLY
56
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
FOR THE INTRODUCING OF GUESTS OF OUR COLLEAGUE CARRIE WOERNER. THESE
ARE STUDENTS FROM THE TRIO UPWARD BOUND PROGRAM AT SUNY
ADIRONDACK. TRIO IS A COLLEGE PREP PROGRAM FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS
FROM LOW-INCOME FAMILIES, MANY OF WHOM WHO WILL BE THE FIRST IN
THEIR FAMILIES TO ATTEND COLLEGE. MR. SPEAKER, WE HAVE WITH US TODAY IN
THE CHAMBERS FOR THEIR ANNUAL LEADERSHIP AND GOVERNANCE DAY,
PATRICK GREENE. HE'S THE DIRECTOR OF TRIO. ECHO CUTTER IS AN ADVISOR.
AND STUDENTS. ADAM BRENNAN, HE'S A SOPHOMORE AT SOUTH GLENS [SIC]
HIGH SCHOOL. EDEN GILLIS IS A JUNIOR AT ARGYLE HIGH SCHOOL. PAYTON
MATTISON -- KYLIE MATTISON IS A FRESHMAN AT ARGYLE HIGH SCHOOL.
ANGELA MORRISON IS A SOPHOMORE AT GLENS FALLS HIGH SCHOOL. NYX
NELSON IS A JUNIOR AT NORTH WARREN HIGH SCHOOL. AND AMELIA
SCROGGINS IS A FRESHMAN AT NORTH WARREN HIGH SCHOOL. AND LENA --
LENA SCROGGINS IS A SOPHOMORE AT NORTH WARREN HIGH SCHOOL.
MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU COULD WELCOME THESE SCHOLARS AS
WELL AS THEIR ADVISORS TO OUR FLOOR AND GIVE THEM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE
HOUSE ON BEHALF OF MS. WOERNER AND ALL THE COLLEAGUES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF
OF MS. WOERNER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU
HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF
THE FLOOR. THANK YOUR SUPERVISORS AND FOR THE WORK THAT THEY DO WITH
YOU. HOPE THAT YOU ALL WILL BE SUCCESSFUL AND THAT YOU WILL HAVE
LEARNED SOMETHING HERE IN ALBANY ON YOUR TRIP. AND KNOW THAT YOU'RE
ALWAYS WELCOME TO COME BACK. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH, AND
CONGRATULATIONS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
(APPLAUSE)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. IF WE COULD CONTINUE OUR FLOOR WORK TODAY, WE'RE GOING TO GO
TO CALENDAR NO. 100. IT'S ON PAGE 13 BY MS. SIMON. FOLLOWED BY
CALENDAR NO. 174. IT'S ON PAGE 20 BY MS. GLICK. AND THEN
IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THAT, CALENDAR NO. 178. IT'S ON PAGE 20 AS WELL.
THAT ONE'S BY MR. ENGLEBRIGHT. IN THAT ORDER, SIR. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES.
PAGE 13, CALENDAR NO. 100, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02251-A, CALENDAR
NO. 100, SIMON, FERNANDEZ, CRUZ, REYES, GLICK, WEPRIN, BURDICK,
JACOBSON, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO
THE CLOSURE OF HOSPITALS OR EMERGENCY OR MATERNITY DEPARTMENTS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS
REQUESTED, MS. SIMON.
MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. CURRENT LAW
REQUIRES A COMMUNITY FORUM TO BE HELD AFTER A GENERAL HOSPITAL HAS
ALREADY BEEN CLOSED, AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH
TO CONSIDER THE HEALTH NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY, INCLUDING EMERGENCY
MEDICAL CARE, TRANSITIONAL CARE OR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AS PART OF THE
COMMISSIONER'S DECISION TO APPROVE A HOSPITAL CLOSURE. THIS BILL
WOULD ESTABLISH A PROCEDURE FOR THE CLOSURE OF A GENERAL HOSPITAL THAT
WOULD INCLUDE ADVANCED NOTICE SO BEFORE THE HOSPITAL CLOSES WE WOULD
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
ENGAGE WITH COMMUNITY, PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO HAVE
PUBLIC COMMENTS. AND FOR THE HOSPITAL CLOSURE PLAN TO REFLECT THE
NEEDS -- THE HEALTHCARE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUESTION?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SIMON, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. SIMON YIELDS.
MS. SIMON: CERTAINLY.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. SIMON. FIRST, I
JUST WANT TO KIND OF TAKE A LOOK AT THE TIME FRAME THAT'S ENVISIONED BY
THIS BILL TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND IT. SO BEFORE A HOSPITAL WOULD
CLOSE, A MATERNITY WARD OR EMERGENCY ROOM OR CLOSE COMPLETELY, THEY
WOULD BE REQUIRED TO GIVE AT LEAST 30 DAYS NOTICE TO THE -- THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, RIGHT? OR SEND IN THEIR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION.
MS. SIMON: WELL, THE HOSPITAL WOULD HAVE TO APPLY
FOR PERMISSION TO CLOSE, AND THEY WOULD NEED TO -- THE DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH WOULD THEN NEED TO NOTIFY THE PUBLIC, AS WELL AS THE LOCAL
ELECTED OFFICIALS WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE APPLICATION HAVING BEEN FILED.
MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, LET'S
SAY THEY -- THEY MAKE THAT DECISION THEY HAVE TO CLOSE FOR WHATEVER
REASON. THEY -- THEY NOTIFY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, SAY, JANUARY 1ST.
THEN AT THE END OF JANUARY, 30 -- WITHIN 30 DAYS, IT COULD BE AS LATE AS
THE END OF JANUARY, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT THEN SUBMITS A WRITTEN
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
NOTIFICATION TO OTHERS. THEY THEN SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING, RIGHT, AND
THEY HAVE -- THEY COULD HAVE AS MUCH AS 60 TO 75 DAYS AFTER THAT TO
SCHEDULE THE PUBLIC HEARING, RIGHT?
MS. SIMON: WELL, THEY HAVE TO -- THE WAY THIS
WOULD WORK IS THEY WOULD BE 30 DAYS SUBSEQUENT TO THE FILING OF AN
APPLICATION. THAT NOTICE WOULD ALSO NEED TO PROVIDE A COPY OF WHAT
THAT APPLICATION PROPOSAL IS FOR THE CLOSURE OF THE HOSPITAL. THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WOULD HAVE TO NOTIFY THE LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS
AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC, AND THEN THEY WOULD NEED TO HAVE A COMMUNITY
FORUM. SO IT'S NOT A FORMAL HEARING WITH TESTIMONY, IT WOULD BE A
COMMUNITY FORUM THAT WOULD HAVE TO TAKE PLACE AT LEAST 60 DAYS PRIOR
TO THE PROPOSED CLOSURE DATE.
MR. GOODELL: AND THAT, OF COURSE, WOULD BE --
THAT NOTICE COULD GO OUT AS LATE AS 45 DAYS AFTER THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION
WAS SUBMITTED, CORRECT?
MS. SIMON: IT COULD, YES. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO WAIT 45
DAYS.
MR. GOODELL: AND THEN THE PUBLIC FORUM HAS TO
BE AT LEAST 60 DAYS PRIOR TO ANY CLOSURE. SO YOU HAVE THE INITIAL 30
DAYS. THEN YOU PICK UP ANOTHER 15 TO 60. I MEAN, 15 BECAUSE THE
NOTICE COULD GO OUT AFTER 45. THAT'S 15 MORE. PLUS 60 DAYS IT HAS TO BE
IN ADVANCE. SIXTY DAYS NOTICE. AND AFTER THEY HAVE THE COMMUNITY
FORUM THEY'RE REQUIRED TO ACCEPT WRITTEN COMMENTS AFTER THAT, RIGHT?
MS. SIMON: WELL, THE -- THEY'RE REQUIRED TO ALLOW
WRITTEN COMMENTS. THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO -- PEOPLE ARE NOT REQUIRED
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
TO COMMENT. THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS IS TO HAVE NOTICE IN ADVANCE SO
THAT WHEN A HOSPITAL MAY BE CLOSING OR KEY TIME-SENSITIVE
DEPARTMENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ARE OFTEN -- ARE NOT SUBJECT TO A FULL
REVIEW CURRENTLY, ARE ABOUT TO CLOSE, THAT THE PUBLIC KNOWS AND THAT THE
LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS KNOW SO THEY CAN ALSO INFORM THEIR CONSTITUENTS.
AND THE IDEA IS TO ENSURE THAT THERE'S ACTUAL INFORMATION PROVIDED TO
THE PUBLIC. AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, ANY PROPOSAL AND THE CLOSURE PLAN
HAS TO BE PROVIDED TO THE PUBLIC SO THEY'RE NOT GUESSING. AND ALSO, THE
PUBLIC HAS TO BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO -- TO ENGAGE EITHER AT A PUBLIC
FORUM OR SEPARATELY BY WRITTEN COMMENTS. AND THAT ALL HAS TO BE
ONLINE AS WELL.
MR. GOODELL: AND I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT JUST
FOCUSING A LITTLE BIT ON THE TIME FRAME. WE TALKED ABOUT THE 30 DAYS
INITIAL, ANOTHER 15, 60. ANOTHER TWO WEEKS FOR WRITTEN COMMENTS.
AFTER THAT 120 DAY NOTICE, IS THERE ANY TIME FRAME IN THIS BILL FOR THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO ACTUALLY MAKE ANY DECISION?
MS. SIMON: I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THE -- TO MAKING
A DECISION?
MR. GOODELL: RIGHT.
MS. SIMON: NO. THIS DOESN'T REQUIRE THEM TO MAKE
A DECISION WITHIN A PARTICULAR PERIOD OF TIME. SOMETIMES THOSE CLOSURE
DECISIONS TAKE LONGER THAN OTHERS, BUT THIS DOESN'T MANDATE A PARTICULAR
TIME FRAME FOR THE DECISION TO CLOSE OR TO CLOSE A DEPARTMENT.
MR. GOODELL: NOW, WHY WOULD A -- MAYBE YOU
CAN BRING ME UP TO SPEED. WHY WOULD A HOSPITAL SEEK TO CLOSE? I
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MEAN, IT SEEMS KIND OF FINAL IF THE WHOLE HOSPITAL IS CLOSING. WHY
WOULD A HOSPITAL SEEK TO CLOSE?
MS. SIMON: YOU KNOW, YOU GOT ME. HOSPITALS
CLOSE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS ALL THE TIME. USUALLY THOSE REASONS ARE
NOT REASONS THE PUBLIC KNOWS. THIS -- PART OF THE IMPETUS FOR THIS BILL
CAME OUT OF A CLOSURE OF A HOSPITAL IN MY DISTRICT. IT WAS A HOSPITAL
THAT HAD BEEN AROUND FOR OVER 150 YEARS. IT WAS A COMMUNITY HOSPITAL.
IT SERVED THE COMMUNITY, INCLUDING OUR PUBLIC HOUSING IN RED HOOK,
FOR EXAMPLE, WAS THEIR MAIN HOSPITAL. IT SERVED OUR COPS, THE POLICE
PRECINCT WAS DOWN THE BLOCK. THIS WAS A PLACE WHERE EVERYBODY USED.
AND A BIG OPERATOR CAME IN, KIND OF DRAINED THEM OF MONEY. TOOK ALL
THAT MONEY AND BROUGHT IT TO MANHATTAN. THE STATE TOOK OVER FOR A
COUPLE OF YEARS AND DID NOT DO WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE DONE. AND SO ONE
OF THE BIG -- BIG ISSUES THAT WE FOUND WAS THAT THERE WAS VERY LITTLE
INFORMATION ACTUALLY PROVIDED TO THE PUBLIC. WE DID KNOW FROM
ENGAGING WITH THE DOCTORS AND WITH OTHER PERSONNEL AT THE HOSPITAL THAT
THEY HAD A GREAT PAYOR MIX BUT THEY WEREN'T BILLING. SO WE WOULD
KNOW THAT INFORMATION BEFOREHAND BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF THEY HAD
BILLED, THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SURVIVE. BUT THAT WASN'T PART OF
THE CORPORATE PLAN.
MR. GOODELL: SO USING YOUR EXAMPLE, YOU
INDICATED THAT A PAYOR TOOK ALL THE MONEY OUT SO THE HOSPITAL RAN OUT OF
MONEY. THE STATE STEPPED IN, THE STATE RAN IT FOR A FEW YEARS. NOW,
YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT OUR STATE BUDGET -- WELL, I'M SORRY, LOOKING
FORWARD TO SEEING A STATE BUDGET, I WOULD SUSPECT THE STATE WOULD HAVE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MONEY TO RUN A HOSPITAL FOREVER. WHY DID THE STATE SHUT IT DOWN?
MS. SIMON: IT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. AND WE
WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT WHY THEY DID THAT IF WE HAD THE INFORMATION.
MR. GOODELL: WHAT WAS THE EXPLANATION THEY
GAVE? DID THEY SAY THEY WERE SHUTTING IT DOWN BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T
WANT TO KEEP SUBSIDIZING IT?
MS. SIMON: YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A WHOLE HOST OF
REASONS GIVEN. AND I WOULD HAVE TO REFER BACK TO THE RECORD. THE
REALITY IS THAT THE STATE DID A PARTICULARLY POOR JOB OF MEETING ITS
PROMISES TO THE COMMUNITY WHEN IT TOOK OVER THAT HOSPITAL. SPENT A
LOT OF MONEY ON SIGNAGE, NOT A LOT OF MONEY ON MAKING THE -- THE
UPGRADES THAT THEY HAD PROMISED. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY DIDN'T BRING IN
THE EQUIPMENT THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD. THIS WAS A LEVEL 1 TRAUMA
CENTER. THIS WAS A STROKE CENTER. THIS WAS A FINE HOSPITAL, AND THE
STATE KIND OF BLEW IT.
MR. GOODELL: NOW OF COURSE I'M HEARING FROM ALL
MY HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS, I'M SURE YOU ARE IN YOUR DISTRICT AS WELL, THAT
THEY HAVE AN ACUTE STAFFING SHORTAGE. AND MANY OF MY FACILITIES HAVE
ACTUALLY REDUCED OCCUPANCY IN ORDER TO MEET STAFFING RATIOS. AND --
AND INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY CAN ACCEPT AT THE
HOSPITAL. IS THERE ANY EXCEPTION IN TERMS OF ALLOWING A HOSPITAL TO
CLOSE IF IT IS UNABLE TO STAFF IT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RATIOS THAT THIS
LEGISLATURE SUGGESTS?
MS. SIMON: THIS BILL IS NOT ABOUT STAFFING RATIOS,
AND IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY REQUIREMENTS FOR -- FOR THAT OR ANY OTHER TYPES
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
OF SPECIFIC ISSUES WITH REGARD TO THE RUNNING OF THE HOSPITAL. WHAT IT
DOES REQUIRE IS NOTICE. AND IT DOES REQUIRE ENGAGEMENT. AND IT DOES
REQUIRE THAT THE UNMET NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY THAT MAYBE, FOR
EXAMPLE, THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH AN ANALYSIS. WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO
PROVIDE HEALTHCARE FOR THE POPULATIONS THAT THIS HOSPITAL SERVES IN AN
ALTERNATIVE SETTING? WE DON'T KNOW THAT UNTIL WE DO THAT ANALYSIS. SO
IT REQUIRES THEM TO DO THAT WORK, AND IT REQUIRES THEM TO COMMUNICATE
THAT AND ENGAGE WITH THE -- THE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SERVED
BY THE HOSPITAL. YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD 41 HOSPITALS CLOSE IN THE LAST 21
YEARS.
MR. GOODELL: MM-HMM.
MS. SIMON: FORTY-ONE HOSPITALS, COMPLETE CLOSURES.
THAT'S A REALLY DANGEROUS THING FOR -- FOR THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK.
MR. GOODELL: IS THERE ANY FUNDING IN THIS BILL OR
ANY FUNDING MECHANISM IN THIS BILL TO KEEP A HOSPITAL OPEN WHILE THE
HEALTH DEPARTMENT EVALUATES THIS?
MS. SIMON: THIS IS ABOUT ENGAGEMENT AND
INVOLVING THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES IN THE DETERMINATIONS AS TO WHETHER
THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WILL PERMIT A HOSPITAL TO CLOSE. THOSE OTHER
MECHANISMS THAT THE HOSPITAL -- THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH MAY HAVE TO
ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES ARE NOT PART OF THIS BILL.
MR. GOODELL: AND ARE YOU AWARE OF OTHER
MECHANISMS THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS TO KEEP A HOSPITAL OPEN
INDEFINITELY WHILE THEY REVIEW IT IN TERMS OF COVERING STAFF SALARIES -
WHICH OF COURSE WE ALL THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT - ENSURING THAT THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
NURSING STAFFAGE REMAINS HIGH AND THEY DON'T LEAVE FOR OTHER FACILITIES,
THINKING THAT THEIR OWN HOSPITAL IS GOING TO CLOSE? DO WE HAVE ANY
MECHANISM TO ENSURE THAT THE ACCOUNTS PAYABLE ARE BEING MET SO WE
GET THE BANDAGES AND THE SUPPLIES AND THE DISINFECTANTS THAT A HOSPITAL
NEEDS TO OPERATE SAFELY? ARE YOU AWARE OF THOSE PROGRAMS?
MS. SIMON: THOSE ISSUES WOULD BE ADDRESSED IN THE
CLOSURE PLAN. AND THE RESPONSE TO THOSE ISSUES WOULD BE PART OF WHAT
WOULD BE PART OF THAT ENGAGEMENT WITH COMMUNITY AND ALSO WITH THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.
MR. GOODELL: NOW IF A HOSPITAL ACTUALLY DECLARES
BANKRUPTCY, AM I CORRECT, THE FEDERAL BANKRUPTCY WOULD PREEMPT ANY
STATE LAWS?
MS. SIMON: YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I DO WHEN THERE'S
AN AUTOMATIC STAY BY VIRTUE OF FILING WITH THE BANKRUPTCY COURT THAT
WOULD, IN FACT, CONTROL THE PROCESS. IT DOESN'T MEAN THERE WOULDN'T BE
ANY PROCESS. AND, IN FACT, AS YOU'RE AWARE, MANY, MANY TIMES WHEN
THERE'S A BANKRUPTCY FILED THERE IS A PLAN THAT WORKS OUT A WAY FOR THE
INSTITUTION TO REMAIN OPEN AND ALSO TO PAY ITS DEBTS.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. SIMON.
AS ALWAYS, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: ON THE BILL, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: I NOT ONLY APPRECIATE MY
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COLLEAGUE'S COMMENTS, I APPRECIATE HER DESIRE THAT HOSPITALS PROVIDE A
GREAT DEAL OF NOTICE BEFORE THEY CLOSE AND THAT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT
REVIEW ANY OF THESE APPLICATIONS AND HAVE ADEQUATE TIME TO DO SO. THE
PROBLEM THAT WE RUN INTO IS WHEN A GREAT PLAN RUNS INTO REALITY, AND THE
REALITY IS THAT OFTENTIMES THE REASON THE HOSPITAL IS CLOSING ITS MATERNITY
DEPARTMENT OR THEY'RE CLOSING THEIR EMERGENCY ROOM OR THE REASON THE
HOSPITAL IS CLOSING ENTIRELY IS BECAUSE IT'S RUN OUT OF MONEY AND IT
CANNOT AFFORD TO STAY OPEN. AND SO IF YOU HAVE A HOSPITAL THAT'S LOSING
A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY, SAY, IN ITS MATERNITY WARD BUT COULD
SURVIVE OTHERWISE, FORCING THAT HOSPITAL TO CONTINUE TO LOSE MONEY FOR
MONTHS AND MONTHS ON END JEOPARDIZES THE EXISTENCE OF THE HEALTH
FACILITY ITSELF. AND THIS IS JUST NOT HYPOTHETICAL. I'VE LIVED IT, AND I'LL
BET MANY OF THE OTHER -- OF MY OTHER COLLEAGUES HAVE ACTUALLY LIVED IT.
I HAD A HOSPITAL HAVE TWO -- A HOSPITAL COMPANY THAT HAD TWO HOSPITALS
IN MY DISTRICT, AND THEY WERE FORCED TO SHUT ONE OF THE TWO HOSPITALS
DOWN OR IT WOULD HAVE BANKRUPTED THE ENTIRE FACILITY. BOTH HOSPITALS
WOULD HAVE BEEN FORCED DOWN. NOW, WE KNOW WHAT A CRITICAL STAFFING
SHORTAGE OUR HOSPITALS ARE FACING. SO WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS WHEN
A HOSPITAL SENDS OUT A PUBLIC NOTICE THAT SAYS, BY THE WAY, WE'RE
CLOSING. IF YOU HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT IT, THINK ABOUT IT FROM THE
PERSPECTIVE OF THE NURSE. NURSES, KNOWING THERE'S A CRITICAL HOUSING --
OR A CRITICAL STAFFING SHORTAGE HAVE SEVERAL OPPORTUNITIES TO GO
ELSEWHERE, BECAUSE EVERYONE WANTS TO HIRE THEM. AND SO THEY THEN
HAVE TO MAKE THAT DIFFICULT CHOICE, DO I STAY WITH THIS HOSPITAL THAT
ALREADY TOLD ME THEY'RE GOING TO FIRE ME IN A MATTER OF MONTHS OR DO I
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
LOOK FOR A NEW JOB SO THAT I CAN MAKE SURE MY FAMILY'S FED? AND SO AS
SOON AS THE HOSPITAL ANNOUNCES IT'S CLOSING, IT STARTS SHUTTING STAFF. AND
THINK ABOUT YOUR SUPPLIERS. I MEAN, THE ONLY WAY A HOSPITAL CAN
OPERATE IS IF IT HAS A STEADY SUPPLY OF BANDAGES AND SUTURES AND
PRESCRIPTION MEDICATION AND DISINFECTANT AND ALL OF THE SUPPLIES. SO AS
SOON AS YOU TELL YOUR SUPPLIERS THAT YOU'RE FACING BANKRUPTCY AND
YOU'RE NOT SURE YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SUPPLY THEM, THEY GO ON
COD. IT'S A GREAT IDEA THAT HOSPITALS GIVE US MONTHS AND MONTHS OF
NOTICE AND THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TAKES MONTHS AND MONTHS TO
REVIEW IT. BUT THERE'S NOTHING IN THIS BILL THAT ADDRESSES WHAT HAPPENS
WHEN A HOSPITAL RUNS OUT OF MONEY AND CAN'T PAY ITS EMPLOYEES.
THERE'S NOTHING IN THIS BILL THAT ADDRESSES THE PROBLEM WHEN A HOSPITAL
RUNS OUT OF STAFF AND CAN'T PROVIDE THE LEVEL OF CARE THAT WE, IN THIS
LEGISLATURE, ARE DEMANDING WITH MINIMUM STAFFING LEVELS. THERE'S
NOTHING IN THIS LEGISLATION THAT DEALS WITH THE FACT THAT A HOSPITAL THAT'S
GOING INTO BANKRUPTCY ISN'T GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET SUPPLIES.
AND SO WHILE I APPRECIATE THE DESIRE TO HAVE AS MUCH
NOTICE AS POSSIBLE, THE REALITY IS IF WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT -- ABOUT
PROVIDING THIS PROCESS IN A TIMELY MANNER, WE HAVE TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT
PROVIDING THE STATE FUNDING THAT ENABLES IT TO HAPPEN. THERE'S NO
MONEY TREE GROWING BEHIND HOSPITALS THAT THEY CAN SHAPE WHILE THE
STATE TAKES ITS TIME REVIEWING AN APPLICATION. SO I APPRECIATE MY
COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE. AND I WOULD SUPPORT HER IN GETTING AN AMENDMENT
TO THE STATE BUDGET THAT GUARANTEES THAT OUR DEDICATED NURSING STAFF
THAT SHOW THAT LOYALTY AND STAY WITH THE HOSPITAL TO THE BITTER END ARE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
PAID, AND THAT OUR SUPPLIERS WHO CONTINUE TO SUPPLY THOSE HOSPITALS GET
PAID. BUT UNTIL WE GUARANTEE THAT OUR STAFF CAN BE PAID AND THAT THE
PATIENTS HAVE THE CARE THAT THEY NEED, JUST ADDING A MULTI-MONTH
PROCESS TO A CLOSURE APPROVAL CREATES HORRIFIC PRACTICAL PROBLEMS FOR
THE STAFF AND THE PATIENTS WITH NO SOLUTION.
FOR THAT REASON I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION. THANK
YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THANK YOU, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. MONTESANO.
MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL, PLEASE.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: ON THE BILL.
MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU. I -- I WOULD LIKE TO
COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL, HAVING FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE WITH
HOSPITAL CLOSURES, ESPECIALLY IN MY DISTRICT, A PROPOSED HOSPITAL
CLOSURE. BUT BEING VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE SITUATION OF LONG ISLAND
COLLEGE HOSPITAL, WHICH BY THE WAY, WAS RUN BY THE STATE UNIVERSITY
OF NEW YORK. SO -- SO YOU COULD FIGURE WHY. BUT IT'S A VERY SERIOUS
PROBLEM WHEN A HOSPITAL MOVES FOR CLOSURE. NOW, A COUPLE OF YEARS
AGO IN MY DISTRICT WE HAD A COMMUNITY HOSPITAL WHICH IS OWNED AND
OPERATED BY A LARGE NETWORK, HOSPITAL NETWORK. AND BY -- YOU KNOW,
EVERYONE KNOWS BASICALLY THAT IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK EVERY HOSPITAL
IS A NON-FOR-PROFIT. SO THEY'RE NOT WORKING FOR A PROFIT. AND THEY JUST
CAME OUT OF THE BLUE AND SAID, WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE GLEN COVE
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HOSPITAL, WHICH EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY USES, ANY ADJOINING
COMMUNITY. AND WHERE THIS HOSPITAL IS LOCATED IS IN THE NORTHERN
EASTERN PART OF THE DISTRICT WHERE -- IN NASSAU COUNTY WHERE IF YOU
CLOSED THEM AND TOOK AWAY THE EMERGENCY ROOM, THE ADJOINING
VILLAGES, TO GET TO THE NEXT HOSPITAL WOULD HAVE A 45-, 50-MINUTE
AMBULANCE RIDE IN GOOD WEATHER. LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT SNOW AND ICE
AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO WE GOT -- I GOT -- ME AND SEVERAL OTHERS, WE
GOT THE COMMUNITY ACTIVATED AND INVOLVED AND WE GOT THE HOSPITAL
ADMINISTRATORS, THE BIG PEOPLE THAT OPERATE THE HOSPITAL NOT LOCALLY BUT
IN THE -- IN THE BOARD ITSELF, IN FOR A CONVERSATION TO SEE WHAT THEIR
PROBLEM WAS. AND THEY JUST THOUGHT THERE WASN'T ENOUGH BUSINESS FOR
THE HOSPITAL AND THEY WANTED TO CLOSE IT. AND WE EXPLAINED TO THEM
WHAT THEIR MORAL OBLIGATION WAS TO THE COMMUNITY TO KEEP THIS HOSPITAL
OPEN. WE NEEDED IT THERE. A LOT OF PEOPLE DEPENDED ON IT. ALL OF OUR
NURSING HOMES FED INTO THAT HOSPITAL. IT DID A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF
WORK. THE STATE POURED A LOT OF MONEY INTO THAT FACILITY TO OPEN THE
FIRST EBOLA CENTER WHEN WE HAD THAT CRISIS GOING ON. SO LONG STORY
SHORT, WE MANAGED TO GET THAT HOSPITAL TO STAY OPEN. WE AGREED THAT
THEY SHOULD -- THAT THEY COULD CLOSE CERTAIN PARTS, AND THAT WAS THE
MATERNITY WARD AND THE PSYCHIATRIC UNIT. AND THEY REDUCED BEDS BY
ABOUT 50. AND -- AND THERE WAS GOOD REASON WHEN YOU LEARNED ABOUT
HOW HOSPITALS OPERATE. SO INCREMENTALLY, FOR EVERY AMOUNT OF BEDS
THAT THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE TO INCREASE THE SOCIAL WORKERS, THE MEDICAL
STAFF, THE NURSING STAFF, SOCIAL -- EVERYBODY INCREMENTALLY GETS
INCREASED DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF BEDS. THE PSYCH UNIT ONLY HELD
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
20 BEDS. AND FOR THE THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PATIENTS THAT THEY HANDLED
IN THERE, SENIOR CITIZENS, YOU KNOW, GERIATRIC PATIENTS, ADOLESCENTS AND
PEDIATRICS, THEY REQUIRED DIFFERENT STAFF, EVERY ONE OF THEM. SO THAT
COULD BE UNDERSTOOD WHY THEY MANAGED -- THEY HAD AN ADJOINING
PROPERTY TO SEND THEM TO. THEY DECIDED TO KEEP THE HOSPITAL OPEN, AND
THAT YEAR THEY HAD MADE A $400,000 NET PROFIT, KEEPING THE HOSPITAL
OPEN. THEY DO A PHENOMENAL JOB THERE. IT'S A REHAB CENTER, EMERGENCY
ROOM'S OPEN, ALL THE SURGERIES ARE BEING PERFORMED AND EVERYBODY'S
HAPPY. BECAUSE IT WAS THE INPUT OF THE COMMUNITY. BECAUSE THERE
WAS THE INPUT OF ELECTED OFFICIALS AND OTHER CONCERNED CITIZENS, THEY
SAW THE REASON AND KEPT THE PLACE OPEN. ST. VINCENT'S HOSPITAL IN
MANHATTAN, IN THE HEART, RIGHT, OF LOWER MANHATTAN, ONE OF THE BUSIEST
PLACES YOU COULD FIND, THEY JUST CLOSED IT WITH NO THOUGHT ABOUT WHERE
THEY'RE GOING TO SHOVE ALL THESE PATIENTS. THEY HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE.
THE VOLUME DOESN'T CHANGE. THERE'S NOT LESS SICKNESS BECAUSE YOU
CLOSE A HOSPITAL. IT HAPPENS. THE BIG PROBLEM WE'RE SEEING NOW IN
NASSAU UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER IN NASSAU COUNTY, SAME PROBLEM.
MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR TO BE BEHIND THE
EIGHT BALL. AND THE PROBLEM IS UNIQUE TO EVERY ONE OF THESE HOSPITALS.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS? THE MEDICAID SYSTEM IN THIS STATE HOLDS
THEM HOSTAGE AND DOES NOT PAY ITS BILLS. THEY PROVIDE THE SERVICES.
THEY PROVIDE THE SERVICES, A LOT OF THESE HOSPITALS ARE HIGH-END USE FOR
MEDICAID AND MEDICAID DOES NOT PAY THEM. IT NICKLES AND DIMES
THEM. IT PENALIZES THEM. IT CLAWS BACK MONEY. IT FINDS EVERY REASON IT
CAN NOT TO PAY THESE HOSPITALS. SO HOW DO YOU THINK THEY'RE SUPPOSED
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
TO OPERATE? IT'S NOT FOR THEIR FAILURE OF MANAGEMENT THAT THEY CAN'T
FUNCTION, IT'S BECAUSE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES AND MEDICAID TORTURE
THEM. A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO I WAS IN THE APPELLATE DIVISION, SECOND
DEPARTMENT, LISTENING TO A CASE BEFORE MINE WHERE A LAWSUIT AGAINST
OXFORD HOSPITAL, BY ONE OF THE LARGE HOSPITALS, SUING THEM FOR DELAYED
PAYMENTS. AND THE GUY FROM OXFORD, THE LAWYER REPRESENTING THEM,
WAS CHASTISED BY THE COURT FOR SAYING A CLAIM COMES IN TO THE
INSURANCE CARRIER, THEY LOOK AT IT. WHEN THEY FIND THE FIRST MISTAKE ON
THE CLAIM FORM, THEY KICK IT BACK AND THEY GET ANOTHER 30 TO 60 DAYS TO
PAY THE CLAIM ONCE THE CORRECTION IS MADE. THEN THEY GO TO LINE
NUMBER 2. FIND ANOTHER MISTAKE AND THEY DO THE SAME THING. SO
INSTEAD OF READING THE WHOLE CLAIM FORM IN ITS ENTIRETY AND BRINGING ALL
THE ERRORS TO THE ATTENTION OF THE HOSPITAL AT ONE TIME, THEY DID THEM
ONE AT A TIME TO DRAW OUT THE TIME. IN MOST CASES IT WAS A YEAR-
AND-A-HALF BEFORE THEY WERE PAID THE CLAIM. THEY OWED THIS PARTICULAR
HOSPITAL $10 MILLION IN PAYMENTS. THE APPELLATE DIVISION RULED THAT
NOT ONLY WHAT THEY DID WAS WRONG AND THEY HAD TO CORRECT IT, THEY
MADE THEM PAY THE $10 MILLION WITH 9 PERCENT INTEREST A YEAR, YOU
KNOW, AS A PENALTY, PLUS THE LEGAL FEES. SO THIS IS THE GAME THAT GOES
ON. INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE A VERY STRONG HAND IN THE OPERATION OF
HOSPITALS. THEY DICTATE THE SERVICES BEING PROVIDED, HOW MUCH WE'RE
GOING TO PAY YOU BASED ON THE HOSPITAL NEXT DOOR. WE HAD A BILL ABOUT
IT LAST WEEK ABOUT THE VARIATION IN PRICES. WHAT DRUG COMPANIES THEY
USE. THEY REGULATE -- THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE THEIR HAND IN THIS,
AND MEDICAID IS -- IS MORE THE GUILTY PARTY FOR THIS. SO ALL THIS BILL, THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
WAY I READ IT, SEES -- SAYS IS THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO CLOSE A HOSPITAL, YOU
GOT TO GIVE THE PUBLIC NOTICE, HAVE THE PUBLIC INPUT AND LET THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH GO THROUGH THE DIFFERENT REASONS WHY THE
HOSPITAL SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT CLOSE. COULD WE DOWNSIZE IT A LITTLE BIT?
COULD WE MODIFY ITS OPERATIONS? COULD WE ELIMINATE -- MAYBE YOU
DON'T NEED A MATERNITY UNIT. THEY HAPPEN TO BE VERY EXPENSIVE TO
OPERATE, AND IT'S CHEAPER WHEN YOU CAN CONSOLIDATE THEM IN ONE BIGGER
HOSPITAL. SO THAT WORKS THAT WAY. BUT FOR GENERAL HEALTHCARE, GENERAL
MEDICINE, SURGERY, GERIATRIC CARE, THESE PLACES ARE THE MOST ESSENTIAL IN
THE COMMUNITY. THIS PARTICULAR HOSPITAL THAT'S THE SUBJECT MATTER OF
THIS BILL WAS IN THE HEART OF DOWNTOWN BROOKLYN. IT SERVED A VERY,
VERY, VERY LARGE POPULATION. AND AS THE SPONSOR NOTED ABOUT THE
CLOSURE OF HOSPITALS IN THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS IN THIS STATE, I WILL TELL
YOU IN THE '70S I WAS AN EMERGENCY -- EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN
FOR THE NEW YORK CITY EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE, AND WE HAD
HOSPITALS ALL OVER THE PLACE - MANY OF THEM SMALL, SOME LARGE - AND
EVERY ONE OF THEM IS GONE TODAY. FROM MANHATTAN TO BROOKLYN TO
HARLEM. THE OLD SYDENHAM HOSPITAL. ALL THOSE PLACES ARE GONE FOR
THE SIMPLE REASON IS THEY WERE NOT PROPERLY SUPPORTED BY MEDICAID OR
BY THE INSURANCE COMPANIES. NOT FOR A LACK OF PATIENTS. THEY HAD
PLENTY OF PATIENTS TO TAKE CARE OF. THE WAIT NOW IN THE HOSPITAL
EMERGENCY ROOMS IS PHENOMENAL DOWN ON LONG ISLAND. YOU GO TO
COHEN CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL, WHICH IS -- SITS ON THE NASSAU-QUEENS
BORDERLINE, AT ANY GIVEN TIME - THIS IS A PEDIATRIC SPECIALITY HOSPITAL -
YOU'VE GOT FOUR TO FIVE HOURS WAIT IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM ALONE, AND
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
THEN TRY AND GET A BED IF YOU'RE BEING ADMITTED. SO IT'S NOT BECAUSE WE
HAVE A LACK OF PATIENTS OR THE HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATORS ARE NOT PROPERLY
RUNNING THEIR HOSPITALS. AND I KNOW ABOUT THE NURSES AND ABOUT THE
MEDICAL TECHNICIANS, AND THEY DO A PHENOMENAL JOB, AND THEY'RE
GETTING PAID. AND WE SHOULD KEEP THESE HOSPITALS OPEN BECAUSE
THEY'RE DEPENDENT ON THEIR JOBS. ONE OF THE BIGGEST OBLIGATIONS WE
HAVE AS LEGISLATORS IN THIS STATE IS THE WELFARE OF OUR PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY
IN THE HEALTHCARE SECTOR. AND THAT'S WHERE WE FALL DOWN ON THE JOB.
OUR POPULATION HAS INCREASED BY THE MILLIONS, RIGHT, AND MANY OF THE
PEOPLE HAVE MEDICAL ISSUES AND PROBLEMS. THERE'S MENTAL ILLNESS,
THERE -- THERE'S ALL KIND OF MEDICAL PROBLEMS GOING ON WITH PEOPLE, AND
YET WE DON'T LOOK TO TAKE CARE OF THEM AND PROVIDE THAT LEVEL OF CARE.
SO FOR THAT PARTICULAR REASON I WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS
PIECE OF LEGISLATION, AND I THANK THE -- THE SPONSOR FOR IT. THANK YOU,
MR. SPEAKER -- MADAM SPEAKER. I'M SORRY.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THANK YOU, MR.
MONTESANO.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE ON 2251-A. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER WHO
WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS
REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS
PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
MR. GOODELL.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS
WILL BE A REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE GENERALLY OPPOSED. I THINK WE HAD
40 NEGATIVE VOTES LAST TIME THIS CAME UP, AND THE BILL HASN'T BEEN
CHANGED SO I ANTICIPATE WE'LL HAVE ABOUT 40 NEGATIVE VOTES AGAIN. BUT
CERTAINLY, THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT CAN AND SHOULD VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT ON
THE FLOOR OR NOTIFY THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THANK YOU, SIR.
MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE
MAJORITY MEMBERS WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. IF THERE ARE ANY
EXCEPTIONS WE ASK THAT YOU REACH OUT TO THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE
SO THAT WE CAN REPORT YOU AS A NEGATIVE AND ANNOUNCE YOUR NAME
ACCORDINGLY.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THANK YOU.
MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.
MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. AS ONE
OF MY COLLEAGUES MENTIONED A HOSPITAL IN MY DISTRICT, I WOULD JUST LIKE
TO TELL THE BODY THAT THERE WAS A THREAT OF A MID-YEAR CUT TO MEDICAID
RATES. THAT WAS PUSHED BACK. I GOT A LETTER IN DECEMBER THANKING ME
FOR SAVING THE HOSPITALS THE MONEY THAT THEY WERE EXPECTING, AND THEY
LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH ME ON THE UPCOMING BUDGET. THAT WAS
IN DECEMBER. IN APRIL, THE HOSPITAL WAS CLOSED. THERE WASN'T AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR THE COMMUNITY -- WE DID EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY COULD
BUT WE WERE GIVEN NO TIME. AND MY COLLEAGUE WAS RIGHT. INSURANCE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
COMPANIES WERE PAYING THAT HOSPITAL, THAT WAS NOT A HUGE HOSPITAL,
MUCH LESS THAN IT PAID OTHER HOSPITALS FOR THE SAME SERVICES. THEY HAD
MORE MEDICAID, THEY WERE A TRAUMA ONE CENTER. IT'S WHERE THEY
BROUGHT PEOPLE, EMERGENCY RESPONDERS. IT WAS A TERRIBLE BLOW. IT
UNDERMINED A LOT OF SMALL BUSINESSES IN THE COMMUNITY THAT SERVED THE
PEOPLE WHO WORKED AT THE HOSPITAL, SANDWICH SHOPS AND OTHER
BUSINESSES. IT WAS A HUGE BLOW TO THE COMMUNITY. WE NEEDED AND
SHOULD HAVE HAD MORE TIME TO WORK OUT WHAT WE COULD DO TO SAVE A
HOSPITAL THAT HAD BEEN THERE FOR 150 YEARS, THAT HAD GOTTEN SURVIVORS
FROM THE TITANIC BROUGHT TO THEM, AND THAT HOSPITAL WENT UNDER. WE
NEEDED THE TIME.
I SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION AND I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR
BRINGING IT FORWARD, AND I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: MS. GLICK IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I WANT TO
THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR THEIR SUPPORT OF THIS BILL. AS WE DISCUSSED,
THIS IS THE OUTGROWTH OF THE CLOSURE OF LONG ISLAND COLLEGE HOSPITAL,
WHICH WAS A SIMILAR HOSPITAL TO ST. VINCENT'S. IT REALLY WAS PART OF THE
FABRIC OF THE COMMUNITY. IT IS WHERE -- YOU KNOW, IT WAS OPENED IN
1857. IT WAS THE FIRST TEACHING HOSPITAL IN THE UNITED STATES. IT PILOTED
THE RESIDENCY PROGRAMS THAT ARE STILL IN EFFECT TODAY. SO IT'S BEEN A REAL
LEADER IN THE COMMUNITY. AND I WILL SAY THAT IN PART OF THE IMPACT
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
WHICH WE WEREN'T ABLE TO ASSESS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ADEQUATE
INFORMATION OR ADEQUATE TIME, ALTHOUGH WE TRIED VERY HARD, AND THIS
DID GO TO -- TO LITIGATION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS CLEAR IS THAT THE
COURT FOUND THAT, IN FACT, THERE WASN'T A PROCESS BY WHICH NEW YORK
STATE HAD TO PROVIDE PEOPLE WITH THE INFORMATION THEY NEEDED. AND
INDEED, UNFORTUNATELY, PEOPLE DIED BECAUSE AMBULANCES COULD NOT
UNDERSTAND WHERE THE ADDRESSES WERE IN THE LOCAL PUBLIC HOUSING
BECAUSE THOSE ADDRESSES DON'T -- YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALL INWARD LOOKING
TO A COURTYARD. AND SO THE FAMILIARITY WITH THE AREA WAS REALLY CRITICAL
TO THE PROVISION OF EMERGENCY CARE, AND IT WAS REALLY A VERY DIFFICULT
SITUATION FOR OUR COMMUNITY. WE HAVE REALLY LOST A VALUABLE PART OF
OUR COMMUNITY AND A VALUABLE ASPECT OF OUR HEALTHCARE. AND WE COULD
NOT GO WRONG IF WE HAD BETTER INFORMATION. WITH INFORMATION WE
WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT CONTINUUM, FOR EXAMPLE,
WHICH RETAINED THE CONTRACT FOR THE BILLING (INAUDIBLE) AFTER SUNY
CAME IN WASN'T ACTUALLY SENDING BILLS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SEND
BILLS BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO CLOSE THE HOSPITAL. AND THAT WAS THEIR
MAIN GOAL, WAS CLOSURE OF THE HOSPITAL. IT WAS THE COMMUNITY'S MAIN
GOAL TO KEEP HEALTHCARE IN OUR COMMUNITY FOR THE PEOPLE IN OUR
COMMUNITY. THIS LEGISLATION WOULD ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN. AND I WILL
BE CASTING MY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: MS. SIMON IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
PLEASE RECORD MY COLLEAGUE MR. SCHMITT IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK
YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THANK YOU.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 20, CALENDAR NO. 174, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05499, CALENDAR NO.
174, GLICK, SIMON, GOTTFRIED, GRIFFIN, L. ROSENTHAL, EPSTEIN, OTIS,
ROZIC, LUPARDO. AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO
CONDUCT A STUDY AND ISSUE A REPORT EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND
RESOURCE NEEDS FACING PREGNANT WOMEN IN NEW YORK AND THE IMPACT OF
LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS ON THE ABILITY OF WOMEN TO OBTAIN
ACCURATE, NON-COERCIVE HEALTH CARE INFORMATION AND TIMELY ACCESS TO A
COMPREHENSIVE RANGE OF REPRODUCTIVE AND SEXUAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: AN EXPLANATION HAS
BEEN REQUESTED, MS. GLICK.
MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MS. SPEAKER. THE BILL
WOULD AUTHORIZE THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A STUDY AND
ISSUE A REPORT EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND RESOURCES NEEDED FACING
PREGNANT WOMEN IN NEW YORK STATE, AND THE IMPACT OF LIMITED SERVICE
PREGNANCY CENTERS ON THE ABILITY OF WOMEN TO OBTAIN ACCURATE HEALTH
INFORMATION IN A TIMELY FASHION AND TO ACCESS A COMPREHENSIVE RANGE
OF REPRODUCTIVE AND SEXUAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES. IT -- THE BILL ALSO
IDENTIFIES OR ESTABLISHES A DEFINITION OF THESE LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
CENTERS AS PRIMARILY OFFERING SERVICES TO CLIENTS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT
BE PREGNANT, IS NOT A HEALTH -- A STATE HEALTH LICENSED FACILITY, AND IS
NOT PROVIDING SERVICES UNDER THE DIRECTION OF A LICENSED HEALTH CARE
PROVIDER AND FAILS TO PROVIDE OR REFER CLIENTS TO OTHER PLACES WHERE THEY
COULD RECEIVE THE FULL RANGE OF COMPREHENSIVE REPRODUCTIVE AND SEXUAL
HEALTH CARE SERVICES.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: MS. BYRNES.
MS. BYRNES: WOULD THE -- HELLO, MADAM SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: CERTAINLY.
MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU. SO TALKING AGAIN, TWICE
IN TWO WEEKS IS ALL GOOD. I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU THOUGH
AND I'D LIKE TO START OUT VERY SIMPLY, AS I DID WITH THE LAST BILL, WITH
SOME DEFINITIONAL ISSUES. NOW, OBVIOUSLY THIS BILL WOULD AUTHORIZE THE
COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A STUDY AND ISSUE A REPORT
EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND RESOURCE NEEDS FACING PREGNANT
WOMEN AND ANALYZE IMPACT OF LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS,
WHICH APPEAR TO BE DEFINED AS A FACILITY OR ENTITY, INCLUDING A MOBILE
FACILITY, THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF WHICH IS TO PROVIDE SERVICES TO CLIENTS
WHO ARE OR MAY BE PREGNANT. MY QUESTION IS WHAT CONSTITUTES AN
ENTITY? HOW BROAD IS THIS DEFINITION SO THAT DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS
THAT PROVIDE SERVICES OF ANY TYPE WOULD KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THEY
WOULD FALL WITHIN IT? WHAT IS AN ENTITY?
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK I INDICATED THE DEFINITION
OF WHAT WOULD FALL UNDER THIS WHEN I SAID THAT A FACILITY OR A LOCATION OR
AN ENTITY OR A CENTER THAT MEETS THIS DEFINITION WHICH WOULD PRIMARILY
PROVIDE SERVICES TO CLIENTS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE PREGNANT BUT IS NOT
A STATE LICENSED HEALTH CARE FACILITY, OR IS NOT PROVIDING SERVICES UNDER
THE DIRECTION OF A LICENSED REPRODUCT -- A LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER
AND FAILS TO PROVIDE OR REFER FOR THE FULL RANGE OF COMPREHENSIVE
REPRODUCTIVE SEXUAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES.
MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. SO WOULD A CHURCH
CONSTITUTE AN ENTITY IF CHURCHES AND PASTORS NORMALLY ARE CHARGED WITH
THE ROLE OF COUNSELING INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE THEIR PARISHIONERS IN ALL
ASPECTS OF LIFE, INCLUDING THOSE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE PREGNANT. SO
ARE WE INCLUDING A CHURCH AS AN ENTITY WHICH WOULD FALL POTENTIALLY
WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF A LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTER?
MS. GLICK: I WOULD NOT BELIEVE SO. CERTAINLY NOT
THE INTENTION OF THE LEGISLATION.
MS. BYRNES: NOW, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE PURPOSE
OF YOUR BILL IS TO ENSURE THAT PREGNANT WOMEN HAVE ACCESS TO
INFORMATION ON ALL OF THE LEGAL OPTIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO THEM,
BASICALLY COMPREHENSIVE PRENATAL CARE?
MS. GLICK: YES. WELL, LOOK, WHAT IT -- THE PURPOSE
OF THE BILL IS TO ENSURE THAT SOMEBODY WHO GOES TO A LIMITED PREGNANCY
SERVICE CENTER WHETHER THEY ARE -- FIND THAT THEY'RE PREGNANT AND
CHOOSE TO CARRY THE PREGNANCY FORWARD, THEY SHOULD BE GOING TO FOR
PRENATAL CARE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT, BUT YOU --
MS. GLICK: EXCUSE ME, LET ME FINISH MY SENTENCE
IF YOU WOULD. AND THEY SHOULD BE SEEING SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A
LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR THAT PRENATAL CARE. OR IF THEY FIND
THAT THEY'RE PREGNANT AND WANT TO TERMINATE THE PREGNANCY, THEY SHOULD
LIKEWISE BE SEEING A LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.
MS. BYRNES: I UNDERSTAND AND -- AND NO
DISRESPECT, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO DO YOUR BEST TO EAT UP ALL MY TIME HERE.
BUT DON'T YOU THINK THAT WOMEN SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO INFORMATION ON
ALL OTHER LEGAL OPTIONS? YES OR NO, MA'AM.
MS. GLICK: WELL, I GET TO -- YOU GET TO ASK THE
QUESTION, I GET TO ANSWER IT. SO -- AND THIS IS A DISCUSSION NOT A
CROSS-EXAMINATION. SO WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WHO
ARE PREGNANT SHOULD RECEIVE INFORMATION FROM A LICENSED HEALTH CARE
PROVIDER.
MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IF THE REPORT
ULTIMATELY IS GOING TO INDICATE UNMET HEALTH AND RESOURCE NEEDS, IF
ULTIMATELY YOU FIND OUT THAT THIS REPORT IS -- DEMONSTRATES THAT SOME OF
THE UNMET HEALTH AND RESOURCES NEEDS AVAILABLE TO PREGNANT WOMEN ARE
INFORMATION ABOUT SERVICES AND PROGRAMS THAT WOULD ASSIST A PREGNANT
WOMAN IN BRINGING A PREGNANCY TO A LIVE BIRTH OR TO AN ADOPTION,
WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO PROMOTE LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS IF
THEY ACHIEVED THIS GOAL WHICH THE REPORT FINDS IS, IN FACT, AN UNMET
HEALTH OR RESOURCE NEED?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
PLACES THAT WOMEN CAN RECEIVE DISCUSSION ABOUT -- THERE ARE CERTAINLY
MANY ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN ADOPTION SERVICES. I THINK IF
YOU GO TO THE YELLOW PAGES, ALTHOUGH I THINK YOU DO THAT NOW ONLINE,
YOU WILL SEE A LISTING OF ADOPTION SERVICES IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU
ARE INTERESTED IN. BUT I THINK THAT IF YOU ARE PREGNANT, YOU SHOULD BE
SEEING, FOR MEDICALLY LEGITIMATE INFORMATION, A LICENSED HEALTH CARE
PROVIDER.
MS. BYRNES: OKAY. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE TASK FORCE
FOR A MOMENT. THE TASK FORCE WILL HAVE NINE MEMBERS, IT LOOKS LIKE ALL
NINE WILL BE APPOINTED BY MEMBERS OF THE MAJORITY EITHER IN THE
ASSEMBLY, THE SENATE, OR BY THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE. IT LOOKS LIKE ONE
OF THOSE MEMBERS WILL BE A PHYSICIAN WHO PRACTICES ABORTION. ONE
WILL HAVE SOMEBODY WHO HAS EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE IN FREE SPEECH
RIGHTS. NO -- THERE IS NO REPRESENTATION ON THIS BOARD FROM THE
MINORITY IN EITHER THE ASSEMBLY OR THE SENATE; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. GLICK: CURRENTLY AS IT IS YES, BUT I'M CERTAINLY,
YOU KNOW, WILLING TO DISCUSS WITH LEADERSHIP IF THERE SHOULD BE -- AND
WITH THE EXECUTIVE IF THAT'S THE OBSTACLE TO GETTING THE BILL PASSED,
MAKING THAT CHANGE.
MS. BYRNES: NOW, I FIND THE VERBIAGE IN THE BILL
SOMEWHAT INTERESTING. WHEN IT REFERS TO THE -- A ABORTION PROVIDER A
DOCTOR WHO HAS PRACTICED ABORTIONS AS TO BEING -- AS WELL AS BIRTHS, AS
TO BEING ONE OF THE MEMBERS, AND IT REFERS SPECIFICALLY TO THE FACT THAT
THE INDIVIDUAL PRACTICES, THAT'S THE OPERATIVE WORD. BUT THEN THE
VERBIAGE WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY WHO IS INVOLVED IN FREE SPEECH
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THAT WE ALL CARE SO MUCH ABOUT, IN FREE SPEECH IT ONLY MERELY REFERS TO
AN EXPERIENCE OR AN EXPERTISE IN FREE SPEECH, BUT NO REQUIREMENT THAT
THE PERSON HAS TO PRACTICE FREE SPEECH OR BE A MEMBER OF AN
ORGANIZATION THAT IS DEVOTED TO MAKING SURE THERE'S FREE SPEECH IN ALL
OPTIONS ON THIS ISSUE. WHY WAS THAT PARTICULAR VERBIAGE, CLEARLY IT WAS
CHOSEN ON PURPOSE, BUT WHY WAS THAT DONE SO THAT SOMEONE WHO
PRACTICES ABORTION IS ON AND ONLY SOMEBODY WHO MERELY EXPERIENCES
FREE SPEECH IS ON?
MS. GLICK: WELL --
MS. BYRNES: IT SEEMS A LITTLE UNFAIR.
MS. GLICK: IF YOU WILL GO TO PAGE 3, LINE 9, IT SAYS A
MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF OBSTETRICIANS AND GYNECOLOGISTS
WHOSE PRACTICE INCLUDES THE PROVISION OF ALL PREGNANCY RELATED CARE,
INCLUDING BIRTH AND TERMINATION OF A PREGNANCY --
MS. BYRNES: RIGHT. INCLUSIVE. AND --
MS. GLICK: -- AND AN INDIVIDUAL WITH PROFESSIONAL
EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELDS OF REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, HEALTH, AND JUSTICE.
AND THEN, A MEMBER WITH PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE IN
FIRST AMENDMENT AND FREE SPEECH RIGHTS. NOW, PROFESSIONAL
EXPERIENCE IN THAT WAY I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE SOMEONE THAT
PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE PROBABLY MIGHT BE AN ATTORNEY WHO HAS DONE
CASES AROUND FREE SPEECH. IT SAYS PROFESSIONAL. IT DOESN'T JUST SAY
SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVES IN FREE SPEECH; IT SAYS SOMEONE WITH
PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE.
MS. BYRNES: IS THERE -- UNDER ANY OF YOUR
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DEFINITIONS, UNDER ALL OF THE POTENTIAL MEMBERS OF THIS TASK FORCE,
ANYTHING THAT WOULD INCLUDE, BECAUSE FREE SPEECH, I CAN HAVE FREE
SPEECH AND BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH ABOUT EVERY ISSUE UNDER THE SUN, IT
DOESN'T MEAN IT'S SOMETHING I BELIEVE IN AND THAT I ADVOCATE FOR. HOW
DO WE KNOW AS MEMBERS OF THE MINORITY THAT THERE'LL BE ANY MEMBER
OF THIS TASK FORCE WHO IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM HAS A PRO-LIFE PRO
-ADVOCACY PERSPECTIVE? OR IS IT DESIGNED NOT TO HAVE ONE?
MS. GLICK: WELL, IT CERTAINLY TALKS ABOUT HAVING
SOMEBODY WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE COLLEGE OF OBSTETRICIANS AND
GYNECOLOGISTS, IT DOESN'T SAY THEY HAVE TO HAVE -- YOU -- YOU INDICATED
THAT THEY HAD AND LIMITED IT TO ABORTION PROVISION, BUT THE BILL DOESN'T
SAY THAT. THE BILL SAYS AN OBSTETRICIAN/GYNECOLOGIST WHO IS FAMILIAR IN
ALL ASPECTS OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH. SO THAT INCLUDES PRENATAL CARE,
BIRTH, WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY STATED IN THE LEGISLATION, AS WELL AS
TERMINATION. SO IT'S NOT IN THAT REGARD TILTED, IF YOU WILL, AND FREE
SPEECH, IT COULD BE AN ATTORNEY. AND WE KNOW THAT ATTORNEYS CAN
ALWAYS ARGUE AT LEAST TWO SIDES OF AN ARGUMENT, IF NOT FIVE, AND SO
REGARDLESS OF -- IT DOESN'T SAY SOME -- ANYBODY, IT HAS TO BE SOMEONE
WHO IS "PRO-ABORTION" OR "ANTI-ABORTION," IT SAYS SOMEONE WHO IS A
GYNECOLOGIST/OBSTETRICIAN WHO IS FAMILIAR WITH ALL ASPECTS OF --
MS. BYRNES: I BELIEVE IT SAYS, AND CORRECT ME IF
I'M WRONG, YOU OBVIOUSLY DRAFTED THE BILL, BUT IT SAYS AN OBSTETRICIAN OR
GYNECOLOGIST WHO PRACTICES PREGNANCY RELATED CARE, INCLUDING BIRTH AND
TERMINATION.
MS. GLICK: WELL --
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MS. BYRNES: IT'S AN INCLUSIVE TERM NOT AN
EXCLUSIVE TERM. SO SOMEBODY IS DEFINITE WHO IS GOING TO FIT THAT
CATEGORY IS GOING TO HAVE ALSO COMMITTED ABORTIONS, CORRECT?
MS. GLICK: WELL, WHO IS -- WHOSE PRACTICE IS BROAD
AND I WOULD THINK THAT THERE ARE MANY OB/GYNS WHO HAVE DELIVERED
BABIES AS WELL AS TERMINATED PREGNANCIES FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS.
SOMETIMES PEOPLE HAVE AN ABORTION BECAUSE IT IS TO SAVE THE LIFE OR
HEALTH OF THE MOTHER.
MS. BYRNES: COUPLE OF OTHER QUESTIONS. THANK
YOU. (INAUDIBLE) IS OBVIOUSLY A KEY PROVISION OF THIS BILL IS
EMPOWERING THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO REQUEST AND RECEIVE DATA
AND INFORMATION FROM LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS ON AN
EXTENSIVE LIST OF ISSUES AND THE LIST OF INFORMATION. IT'S MORE THAN
EXTENSIVE. IT IS AN OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THAT'S GOING
TO BE REQUESTED. SINCE MOST OF THESE PLACES, AT LEAST ANY THAT I'VE EVER
HEARD OF AND MAYBE YOU'RE AWARE OF OTHERS, NORMALLY TALK TO
INDIVIDUALS, WOMEN WHO ARE PREGNANT ABOUT WHAT THEIR OPTIONS ARE AS
FAR AS SERVICES THAT MAY BE AVAILABLE TO THEM, CARRYING ON THE
PREGNANCY, GOVERNMENT, PRIVATE RESOURCES THAT THEY MAY BE ABLE TO RELY
ON IF THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT FINANCES AND HOW TO DO IT IF THEY'RE AN
UNWED MOM. THESE ARE THE THINGS THEY TALK ABOUT AND WORK TOWARDS;
ADOPTION IS AN OPTION. I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT IS SO FRIGHTENING ABOUT
THAT DISCUSSION THAT YOU, IN ESSENCE, WANT TO FLOOD THEM WITH
PAPERWORK TO A POINT WHERE YOU SHUT THEM DOWN?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THE -- THE PURPOSE OF THE BILL IS TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
ACTUAL -- WE'VE HAD A GREAT DEAL OF ANECDOTAL INFORMATION, ANECDOTAL
INFORMATION FROM YOUNG WOMEN AND NOT SO YOUNG WHO INDICATED THAT
THEY SAW THAT THERE WAS -- THEY DIDN'T HAVE HEALTH CARE INSURANCE, THEY
THOUGHT THEY MIGHT BE PREGNANT, THEY WEREN'T SURE, AND THEY SAW
SOMETHING THAT SAID FREE PREGNANCY TEST AND SO THEY WENT IN AND INDEED
THE TEST WAS FREE --
MS. BYRNES: MA'AM, I'M NOT GOING TO -- I'M JUST
GOING TO CUT YOU SHORT BECAUSE I WANT TO BE HEARD ON THE BILL AND I ONLY
HAVE 20 SECONDS I THINK.
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: ON THE BILL.
MS. BYRNES: TWO MINUTES?
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: TWENTY SECONDS.
MS. BYRNES: OKAY. GO AHEAD. I APOLOGIZE. I
DIDN'T WANT TO RUN MYSELF OUT OF TIME.
MS. GLICK: WELL, IN ANY EVENT, SO WE -- WE GOT THIS
INFORMATION, ANECDOTAL INFORMATION THAT SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE
LED TO GO INTO SOMEPLACE AND BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT SINCE THEY
WERE OFFERING A TEST, IT WAS --
ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: MS. BYRNES FOR A
SECOND 15.
MS. BYRNES: MAY I HAVE ANOTHER 15 MINUTES?
THANK YOU.
MS. GLICK: SO THEY THOUGHT THAT THE TEST INDICATED
THAT THEY WERE GOING SOMEPLACE WHERE SOMEBODY COULD PROVIDE SOME
ADDITIONAL SERVICE, SO...
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MS. BYRNES: WERE THEY NOT PROVIDED WITH
SERVICE?
MS. GLICK: THEY -- THEY WERE PROVIDED WITH A FREE
TEST FOR SURE, BUT WHEN THEY WANTED TO FIND OUT ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THAT
WAS MEDICAL IN NATURE, THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO GET THAT INFORMATION AND
THEY FELT FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, A LITTLE SNOOKERED. SO WE'VE HEARD
THIS OVER TIME AND WE SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S ANECDOTAL. WHAT WE REALLY
NEED IS TO HAVE ACTUAL INFORMATION. SO THAT'S WHY THERE'S THIS BILL. I
HAVE A DIFFERENT BILL THAT WOULD SAY, FINE, OPERATE HOWEVER YOU WANT,
BUT THE FIRST TIME SOMEBODY CALLS YOU, YOU HAVE TO TELL THEM THAT YOU'RE
NOT A MEDICAL FACILITY AND THEN IT'S UP TO THEM WHETHER THEY WANT TO GO
OR NOT. THAT'S A DIFFERENT BILL, BUT THIS BILL IS SIMPLY ABOUT TRYING TO CUT
THROUGH THE ANECDOTAL INFORMATION THAT WE'VE HAD AND HAVE ACTUAL
INFORMATION.
MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU INDICATED EARLIER
THAT YOUR PRIMARY -- YOU DIDN'T SAY IT WAS YOUR PRIMARY, EXCUSE ME, BUT
THAT A MAJOR PUSH IN YOUR MIND ON ANY OF THESE BILLS IS TO MAKE SURE
THAT PREGNANT WOMEN TALK TO ACTUAL DOCTORS, HEALTH CARE WORKERS AS
OPPOSED TO PEOPLE WHO MAY BE COUNSELORS; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE
HEALTH CARE PROVISION DO, IN FACT, COUNSEL PEOPLE ON THEIR OPTIONS AND I
DON'T SEE THAT AS MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. YOU -- I THOUGHT EARLIER
YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT YOU WANTED TO SEE PEOPLE GO TO -- WOMEN GO
TO HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS RATHER THAN THE -- THE LIMITED SERVICE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
PREGNANCY CENTERS --
MS. GLICK: I DID SAY THAT BECAUSE PREGNANCY CAN BE
SOMEWHAT TIME-SENSITIVE, SO IF YOU ARE ACTUALLY SOME NUMBER OF
MONTHS -- YOU GET A PREGNANCY TEST, YOU REALLY DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW
HOW PREGNANT YOU ARE. SO YOU SHOULD GO TO A -- A --
MS. BYRNES: NO, AND I'M GOING TO GUESS MOST
PEOPLE, AT LEAST WOMEN IN THIS ROOM AND WHO ARE WATCHING VIA ZOOM
HAVE EITHER TALKED TO THEIR MOTHERS, THEIR GRANDMOTHERS, THEIR PASTORS,
THEIR FRIENDS. WE ALL REACH OUT ON ANY NUMBER OF ISSUES TO PEOPLE
AROUND US --
MS. GLICK: AND THIS DOESN'T PROHIBIT IT --
MS. BYRNES: -- IN ORDER TO GET GUIDANCE.
MS. GLICK: THIS DOESN'T PROHIBIT THAT.
MS. BYRNES: I UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU'RE TRYING TO
PROHIBIT PEOPLE FROM DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING SOMEBODY'S FRIEND
OR PASTOR WOULD DO --
MS. GLICK: NO, I'M NOT.
MS. BYRNES: -- BY CALL -- LABELING THEM IF THEY
HAVE A -- A SPECIFIC STOREFRONT AS A LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTER
AND YOU'RE TRYING TO LIMIT THEM FROM DOING THE SAME THING THAT THE
CONVERSATION YOU COULD HAVE WITH YOUR MOM, AND THAT DOESN'T SEEM
RIGHT.
MS. GLICK: WELL, WE'RE NOT --
MS. BYRNES: MANY ANY OF US REACH OUT TO OTHER
PEOPLE, OUR SPOUSES --
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
MS. GLICK: THIS ISN'T --
MS. BYRNES: -- YOU KNOW, TO TALK ABOUT THINGS.
ALL RIGHT. MY APOLOGIES. GO AHEAD.
MS. GLICK: THIS BILL DOESN'T LIMIT ANYTHING. THE
BILL IS A STUDY, NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, IF SOMEONE IS PREGNANT AND
-- AND AFTER A CONVERSATION WITH A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL FIGURES OUT THAT
THEY'RE ACTUALLY QUITE A BIT ALONG, THEY SHOULD BE GETTING PRENATAL CARE
AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT SO THAT THEY HAVE PROPER
NUTRITION AND THAT THE SUBSEQUENT PREGNANCY IS A HEALTHY ONE, ET CETERA.
SO I -- YES, I BELIEVE PEOPLE WHO ARE PREGNANT SHOULD, A, KNOW THEIR
OPTIONS BUT ALSO, B, BE HAVING THAT CONVERSATION WITH A HEALTH CARE
PROVIDER, NOT LIMITING THEM TO NOT TALKING TO THEIR PASTOR, NOT LIMITING
THEM TO TALK TO, YOU KNOW, THEIR GIRLFRIENDS OR, YOU KNOW, AN OLDER
SIBLING, BUT THIS IS JUST A STUDY BILL.
MS. BYRNES: IT'S A STUDY, BUT IT COMES WITH SUCH
ENORMOUS COST TO LIMITED -- LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTERS THAT IN
ESSENCE YOU COULD POTENTIALLY PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS JUST BY THE
SHEER VOLUME OF INFORMATION YOU'RE SEEKING; IS THAT YOUR GOAL?
MS. GLICK: NO.
MS. BYRNES: ON THE BILL. THANK --
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MA'AM.
MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS BILL DOES PLACE AN ONEROUS
BURDEN ON LAWFUL ORGANIZATIONS PURELY TO TARGET THEM BECAUSE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
INDIVIDUALS IN THIS CHAMBER DISAGREE WITH THEIR PHILOSOPHY AND THEIR
BELIEF IN THE SANCTITY OF LIFE AND THEIR PRO-LIFE ADVOCACY. I BELIEVE IT'S
THE INTENTION OF THIS BILL TO INTIMIDATE, SILENCE, AND TO SHUT DOWN
OPPOSING POINTS OF VIEW AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE A DIFFERENT --
AGAIN, A DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY AND A DIFFERENT DESIRE FOR HOW PREGNANT
WOMEN SHOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF IN ORDER TO, IF THEY WANT, BRING THEM TO
A NICE LIVE HEALTHY BIRTH.
THE ONLY THING THAT THIS BILL WILL DO IS TO STOP A LAWFUL
ORGANIZATION FROM PROVIDING PEOPLE WITH ALL THE INFORMATION THEY NEED.
I WOULD BE HARD-PRESSED TO FIND MANY WOMEN IN OUR STATE WHO DON'T
KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO AN ABORTION. THIS WILL ALLOW THEM TO
KNOW THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS AND OTHER PEOPLE THAT CARE AND CAN GET
THEM THE SERVICES THEY NEED IF THEY WISH TO BRING A BABY TO A LIVE BIRTH.
THIS BILL WILL SIMPLY HURT THE OPTIONS OF THE WOMEN IN OUR STATE AND AS
A RESULT, I'M COMPELLED TO VOTE NO. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. DIPIETRO.
MR. DIPIETRO: THANK YOU, SIR.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL.
MR. DIPIETRO: I'M VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS. FULL
TERM ABORTION DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ENOUGH FOR NEW YORK STATE, KILLING A
BABY AT NINE MONTHS AT A FULL TERM PREGNANCY WASN'T ENOUGH. NOW WE
HAVE TO GO AFTER RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS, AVERAGE PEOPLE, PROFESSIONALS
WHO WANT TO COUNSEL WOMEN ON WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR
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PREGNANCY AND HOW THEY HOW -- AND ALL OF THEIR OPTIONS. BUT IF ONE OF
THE OPTIONS IS NOT ABORTION, THEN THEY'RE GOING TO BE SHUT DOWN AND
THAT'S THE EXACT INTENT OF THIS BILL. I'VE DEBATED IT BEFORE. ALL NINE
MEMBERS ARE ALL GOING TO BE FULL TERM ABORTION ADVOCATES. OF COURSE
THERE ARE NO MINORITY MEMBERS FROM THE ASSEMBLY OR THE SENATE ON
THIS, BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE WANTING TO BE ON THAT BOARD TO
GIVE AN OFFSET, TO GIVE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, TO GIVE THE PRO-LIFE,
WHICH I'M PROUD TO STAND FOR.
IN THAT BILL IT SAYS THAT THESE ARE TO BE NON-COERCIVE.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THIS TOTAL BILL IS COERCIVE. THIS TOTAL BILL TELLS
YOU THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE PRO-LIFE. THIS BILL TELLS YOU THAT YOU'RE GOING TO
GET SHUT DOWN. WE KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THIS BILL IS. I DON'T NEED
TO HAVE TECHNICAL -- TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES WITH -- WITH LANGUAGE. THE
FORMER SPEAKER WAS 100 PERCENT CORRECT. THIS WILL OPEN THE GATE TO
SHUT DOWN ANY CENTER THAT'S PRO-LIFE.
I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF IT. I'M URGING ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO
VOTE AGAINST IT, THIS IS A HORRIBLE BILL. THIS IS A BILL THAT -- THAT -- THAT
BASICALLY SAYS IF YOU'RE NOT FOR ABORTION, YOU'RE GOING TO GET SHUT DOWN
AND TO SHUT UP. IF YOU'RE PRO-LIFE, SHUT UP. WE DON'T WANT YOU TALKING
TO PREGNANT WOMEN. WE DON'T WANT YOU TALKING TO WOMEN WHO EVEN
THINK THEY'RE GOING TO GET PREGNANT. THAT'S DISGUSTING TO ME, AND I'M
NOT GOING TO HOLD IT BACK. THIS BILL NEEDS TO GO IN THE TRASH HEAP WHERE
IT BELONGS. PRO-LIFE WILL NOT BE SILENCED. WE ALREADY HAVE THE NUMBER
ONE ABORTION CAPITAL IN THE WORLD RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK STATE. GOD
HELP US ALL. FULL TERM ABORTION ON DEMAND. I DEBATED IT. SO I -- I
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LAUGH WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO TELL ME WHAT'S IN THE BILL. I KNOW THE BILL
BETTER THAN ANYONE. I'VE TALKED TO HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE, ATTORNEYS ABOUT
IT. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE. THE HEALTH OF A MOTHER? WHEN I HEAR THIS,
OH, THIS BILL WOULD -- THE HEALTH OF A MOTHER IS LESS THAN 1 PERCENT IN
ANY PREGNANCY, SO PLEASE STOP USING THAT FALSE NARRATIVE AS IF 90
PERCENT OF WOMEN ARE -- HAVE -- HAVE LIFE OR DEATH ISSUES AT PREGNANCY.
I'M GOING TO VOTE NO. I URGE THIS TO NEVER COME BACK
UP AGAIN, THAT'S HOW STRONGLY I ADVOCATE A NO-VOTE ON THIS. THE
LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. THE WAY IT'S PUT TOGETHER, THE
NINE MEMBERS, SORRY. CAN'T -- I CAN'T BE FOOLED WITH THE TECHNICAL
LANGUAGE, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS. I'M GOING TO BE VOTING NO.
I'M URGING EVERYONE ELSE TO VOTE FOR NO. STAND UP FOR LIFE. STAND UP
FOR THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE. STAND UP FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO
ADVOCATE FOR LIFE, WHO WANT TO TALK TO PREGNANT WOMEN AND TELL THEM
THERE IS AN OPTION, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO GET AN ABORTION. BUT
UNFORTUNATELY, TO A LOT OF PEOPLE ABORTION IS THEIR RELIGION; I DON'T
KNOW, WHY BUT IT IS. THAT IF YOU DON'T EVEN TAKE ON THE -- THE THOUGHT
OF HAVING AN ABORTION, YOU'RE CHASTISED, YOU'RE CASTRATED, YOU'RE VOTED
OUT OF EVERYTHING. I'VE BEEN ATTACKED TOO MANY TIMES THAT I CAN
IMAGINE BECAUSE OF MY PRO-LIFE STANCE. WHY, BECAUSE I STAND WITH
LIFE? BECAUSE I STAND THAT A WOMAN SHOULD TAKE THAT PREGNANCY TO FULL
TERM AND HAVE THE BABY? I DON'T GET IT, BUT I DON'T HAVE TO. THESE ARE
MY BELIEFS AND I STAND BY THEM. I'M GOING TO VOTE NO.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO
EXPRESS MY THOUGHTS ON THIS BILL.
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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. GALLAHAN.
MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. GALLAHAN: FOR THE REASONS STATED EARLIER BY
MY COLLEAGUES AND, ONCE AGAIN, FOR THE SECOND TIME TODAY, A TEMPORARY
TASK FORCE WILL BE CONSTRUCTED WITHOUT MINORITY REPRESENTATION.
SECOND TIME TODAY. THAT'S 30 PERCENT OF THE RESIDENTS IN THE STATE OF
NEW YORK. THAT'S SIX MILLION PEOPLE THAT WON'T HAVE A SAY IN WHAT
HAPPENS. THIS IS ROUTINE IN THIS ROOM AND I HOPE AND PRAY TO GOD IT
STOPS. I AM IN THE NEGATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. MANKTELOW.
MR. MANKTELOW IS THE -- GOOD TRY.
MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUESTION OR TWO?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: CERTAINLY.
MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MS. GLICK. AS I
READ THROUGH THE BILL AND LOOKED AT THE LANGUAGE, WHAT DO YOU SEE
HAPPENING TO A PLACE LIKE CARE NET, SAVE THE STORKS? WHAT DO YOU SEE
HAPPENING TO AN ENTITY LIKE THAT IF THIS GOES FORWARD?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT THEY WILL SUBMIT THEIR
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INFORMATION AND THE DEPARTMENT WILL, YOU KNOW, ISSUE A REPORT AND
GIVE US SOME IDEA OF HOW -- WHETHER THESE ARE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE
WIDESPREAD OR -- WHICH SEEMS TO BE FROM THE ANECDOTAL INFORMATION
THEY SEEM TO BE QUITE PROLIFIC, BUT PERHAPS THAT'S ERRONEOUS AND WE'LL
FIND THAT IT'S A LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCE THAT IS NOT IMPEDING. I WILL POINT
OUT TO YOU, THOUGH, THAT WE HAVE A SERIOUS MATERNAL MORTALITY RATE IN
THIS STATE SO DELAYING GOING TO A LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER IF YOU
INTEND TO CARRY A PREGNANCY FORWARD, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO GET THAT
PRENATAL CARE. WE DO A MISERABLE JOB OF PROVIDING ACCESS TO THAT AND
SO ANYTHING THAT DELAYS WOMEN SEEKING ACTUAL LEGITIMATE MEDICAL
ATTENTION IS PROBABLY NOT GOOD, BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THIS IS TO STUDY
HOW WIDESPREAD THIS IS.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO I WAS LOOKING AT SOME
OTHER AGENCIES IN NEW YORK STATE AND -- AND ONE THAT CAME ACROSS WAS
PDL, PREGNANCY DECISION LINE. THEY HELP WOMEN THAT ARE
CONSIDERING AN ABORTION. DO YOU KNOW IF THAT AGENCY HAS A MEDICAL
TECHNICIAN ON -- A LICENSED TECHNICIAN?
MS. GLICK: NO, I DON'T. THAT'S WHY THE REPORT IS
IMPORTANT. IF THEY HAVE A LICENSED MEDICAL PROVIDER THAT IS DIRECTING
THE HEALTH CARE, THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO KNOW. BUT THE -- IF IT IS NOT
A STATE LICENSED HEALTH CARE FACILITY OR IT DOESN'T HAVE THE DIRECTION OF A
LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER, THEN IT FALLS UNDER THE TERMS OF THE
DEFINITION. BUT I DON'T KNOW OFFHAND, AND YOU COULD GIVE ME 20
DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS AND I COULDN'T TELL YOU. THAT'S THE POINT OF THE
BILL.
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MR. MANKTELOW: YEAH, I -- I UNDERSTAND THE
POINT OF THE BILL. SO AN AGENCY LIKE THIS IF THEY DIDN'T -- IF THEY DIDN'T
HAVE THE RIGHT INDIVIDUALS IN THEIR AGENCY, THEY WOULD THEN BE REQUIRED
TO DO SO? WOULD THEY BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A LICENSED HEALTH
PROFESSIONAL AT THAT POINT?
MS. GLICK: NO, THAT'S NOT THE -- THIS IS A STUDY BILL.
IT HAS NO REQUIREMENT THAT CHANGES HOW THEY'RE OPERATING, THEY -- WE
JUST NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY'RE OPERATING.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO -- SO CARE NET AS I SAID
EARLIER, THIS BILL WOULD NOT AFFECT CARE NET AT ALL BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE
AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THEY SHOULD OPERATE. WOULD THE FINDINGS OF
THIS TASK FORCE HAVE THE ABILITY TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY DO BUSINESS?
MS. GLICK: NO, THIS -- THAT WOULD NOT BE MY
UNDERSTANDING. THIS IS TO GATHER INFORMATION ABOUT HOW ORGANIZATIONS
THAT FIT THE DEFINITION OF A LIMITED PREGNANCY CRISIS CENTER OPERATES AND
-- AND, YOU KNOW, HOW WIDESPREAD IT IS. SO THAT WOULDN'T CHANGE, BUT I
CERTAINLY WOULD HOPE THAT IF THEY HAVE WOMEN WHO ARE LOOKING TO
CARRY THEIR PREGNANCY TO TERM THAT THEY WOULD IMMEDIATELY TELL THEM
THAT THEY SHOULD SEE A LICENSED HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO THE GOAL OF THE -- THE GOAL
OF THE BILL IS TO MAKE SURE EACH PREGNANT WOMAN IS GIVEN THE OPTION OR
DIRECTION OF SEEING A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER, A LICENSED HEALTH CARE
PROVIDER, CORRECT?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THAT IS CERTAINLY WHAT WE THINK
SHOULD HAPPEN, BUT WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT WOMEN DON'T
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COME OUT FEELING THAT THEY WERE PRESSURED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. THEY
SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO SEEK MEDICAL -- MEDICALLY LEGITIMATE
INFORMATION REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY WANT TO CARRY THE PREGNANCY TO
TERM OR TERMINATE THE PREGNANCY. THAT SHOULD BE A DECISION THAT'S
DISCUSSED WITH SOMEONE WHO IS PROVIDING MEDICALLY LEGITIMATE
INFORMATION.
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. SO AS YOU JUST SAID,
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BEING PRESSURED. WHEN A -- WHEN A YOUNG LADY OR
A WOMAN GOES TO AN ABORTION CLINIC, ARE THEY TOLD THE OTHER OPTION AT A
CLINIC THAT THEY COULD CARRY THE CHILD TO TERM? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT
AN ABORTION CLINIC HAS TO DO?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT WHEN SOMEBODY HAS
MADE A DECISION AND THEY SEEK TO HAVE AN ABORTION, THEY HAVE MADE A
DECISION. BUT I THINK THAT THERE CERTAINLY ARE TIMES WHEN PEOPLE HAVE
GONE AND IN THEIR -- THEY DISCUSS WHAT THE -- WHAT THEIR PROCEDURE IS
AND PEOPLE SOMETIMES CHANGE THEIR MIND.
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. SO -- SO WHAT I'M
HEARING IS MANY OF THE -- THE LADIES THAT ARE GOING TO POSSIBLY DO AN
ABORTION HAVE -- HAVE ALREADY TALKED TO SOMEONE PRIOR TO GETTING TO THE
CLINIC TO KIND OF GUIDE THEM IN THAT DIRECTION. WHO WOULD -- IS THAT A
LICENSED HEALTH PROFESSIONAL THAT WOULD DO THAT?
MS. GLICK: YEAH, WELL, I THINK WHEN SOMEBODY
GOES TO THEIR OBSTETRICIAN -- WELL, THEY GO TO A GYNECOLOGIST PROBABLY
AND THEY FIND THAT THEY ARE PREGNANT, THEY -- SOMETIMES THAT'S A GREAT
HAPPINESS, THEY MAY HAVE WAITED A LONG TIME TO CONCEIVE, OR THEY MAY
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BE A LITTLE BIT UPSET. THEY MAY ALREADY HAVE SIX CHILDREN THAT THEY'RE
HAVING TROUBLE SUPPORTING, OR THEY MAY HAVE TWO KIDS, ONE OF WHOM
THEY'RE SPENDING THEIR TIME WITH BECAUSE THE CHILD HAS SPECIAL NEEDS,
AND I'M SPEAKING BASED ON CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD WITH FRIENDS OVER A
PERIOD OF YEARS. SO PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT REACTIONS, SOMETIMES THEY'RE
REALLY HAPPY, SOMETIMES THEY'RE CONFLICTED, SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT SURE.
AND THEY MAY TALK TO ANY NUMBER OF THEIR FAMILY, FRIENDS, WHATEVER
BEFORE THEY MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHETHER TO CONTINUE A PREGNANCY OR
NOT. BUT ONCE -- ONCE THEY'VE MADE A DECISION AND ACTUALLY ARE GOING
FOR AN APPOINTMENT FOR AN ABORTION, I THINK THEY'VE MADE A DECISION.
BUT I THINK A LOT OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS HAPPEN BEFORE THAT DECISION IS
MADE.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO -- SO WHEN THEY MAKE THAT
DECISION PRIOR TO GOING TO AN ABORTION CLINIC, ALL OF THE OTHER
INDIVIDUALS THAT TALKED WITH THAT MOTHER, FAMILY, FRIENDS, OTHER -- OTHER
PREGNANT LADIES, I DON'T KNOW, THAT'S OKAY, THEY WOULD ACTUALLY NEED TO
TALK TO A HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL PRIOR TO GOING TO THAT CLINIC. DID I
HEAR YOU RIGHT?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THEY'VE ALREADY GOTTEN
INFORMATION FROM THEIR GYNECOLOGIST SO THEY HAVE, IN FACT, SEEN A HEALTH
CARE PROFESSIONAL.
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. BUT ISN'T THAT THE POINT
OF THE BILL, TO GET THEM TO A HEALTH PROFESSIONAL BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T
SEEN THE GYNECOLOGIST BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE PREGNANT?
MS. GLICK: NO, THAT'S NOT --
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MR. MANKTELOW: THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL?
MS. GLICK: NO. THAT'S NOT THE POINT OF THIS.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO WHAT I'M READING UP HERE
ON THE -- ON THE WALL IS A REPORT EXAMINING THE UNMET HEALTH AND
RESOURCE NEEDS FACING PREGNANT WOMEN IN NEW YORK. ISN'T THAT AN
UNMET NEED? I'M JUST ASKING.
MS. GLICK: I THINK THE POINT OF THE BILL IS TO HAVE --
AUTHORIZE THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A SURVEY AND TO
DETERMINE THE PREVALENCE OF THOSE ORGANIZATIONS OR ENTITIES OR FACILITIES
THAT MEET THE DEFINITION OF LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY CENTER WHICH IS
NOT, IN FACT, A HEALTH CARE FACILITY.
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. ONE -- ONE LAST
QUESTION, MADAM SPONSOR, IF YOU'RE WILLING. I KNOW TALKING WITH A LOT
OF PARENTS, TALKING WITH SCHOOLS BACK HOME, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PUSHING
SEX EDUCATION EARLIER AND EARLIER AND EARLIER IN OUR GRADES. YOU KNOW,
WE'RE TRYING TO GET OUR -- OUR YOUNG PEOPLE -- OUR YOUNG STUDENTS,
WE'RE TRYING TO GIVE THEM KNOWLEDGE WAY QUICKER THAN MOST PARENTS
WOULD LIKE TO SEE. SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, ARE THERE ANY PROGRAMS
IN -- IN HIGH SCHOOL THAT THE SENIOR YEAR OF -- OF A SENIOR FEMALE THAT
GIVES THEM THE OPTIONS OF WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF THEY WERE PREGNANT?
DO THEY HAVE AN OPTION FOR AN ABORTION? DO THEY HAVE AN OPTION TO --
MS. GLICK: I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT.
I WOULD HOPE THAT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE AGE APPROPRIATE --
MR. MANKTELOW: MR. SPEAKER --
MS. GLICK: -- SEX EDUCATION.
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MR. MANKTELOW: I CANNOT HEAR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I'M SORRY. WE NEED A
LITTLE QUIET, IS THAT WHAT THE PROBLEM IS? SHH.
MS. GLICK: I WOULD HOPE THAT WE WOULD HAVE AGE
APPROPRIATE INFORMATION TO YOUNGSTERS SO WE WOULDN'T GET TO BE A
SENIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL WITHOUT KNOWING A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN, YOU
KNOW, WHAT YOUR FRIENDS HAVE TOLD YOU.
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. SO -- SO MY VERY LAST
QUESTION IS, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN YOUR BILL SEEING A HEALTH CARE
PROFESSIONAL, IS THE VALUE OF THE INFORMATION FROM A CHILD'S PARENTS
RELEVANT TO THIS?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I DON'T SEE WHERE IT FITS INTO THE
BILL. OBVIOUSLY PARENTS TELLS THEIR KIDS ALL SORTS OF THINGS AND HAVE
ACCESS TO THEIR CHILDREN ALL THE TIME SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE POINT OF
THE QUESTION IS.
MR. MANKTELOW: BUT -- BUT THE POINT IS, MA'AM,
THAT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF YOUNG MOTHERS REALLY RELY ON THEIR MOTHERS TO
GIVE THEM HEALTH CARE ADVICE, TO GIVE THEM DIRECTION, UNDERSTANDING OF
WHAT COULD AND COULDN'T HAPPEN AND IN THAT SITUATION, ESPECIALLY IN MY
DISTRICT WHERE WE HAVE AMISH INDIVIDUALS, WE HAVE MENNONITES, THEY
RELY MORE ON FAMILY THAN THEY DO A HEALTH PROFESSIONAL OR A HEALTH -- A
LICENSED HEALTH PROFESSIONAL. WOULD THIS BILL AFFECT THEM?
MS. GLICK: THE BILL HAS NO -- IN NO WAY INTERFERES
WITH PEOPLE HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THEIR -- THEIR MOMS, NOR WILL
THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH BE ASKING ABOUT THAT TO MY UNDERSTANDING.
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MR. MANKTELOW: DO --
MS. GLICK: THAT'S NOT THE INTENT OF THE BILL.
MR. MANKTELOW: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE -- DO
YOU KNOW WHAT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WILL BE ASKING?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THAT'S IN THE BODY OF THE BILL.
THAT'S THE SUBSTANCE OF THE BILL.
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. THANK YOU -- THANK
YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. MANKTELOW: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL. JUST
TO -- JUST TO SUM THINGS UP HERE. MY -- MY CONCERN IS, AGAIN, WE'RE
GOING TO CREATE A TASK FORCE WITHOUT BRINGING ALL THE PLAYERS TO THE
TABLE. AND, AGAIN, WE'RE GOING TO GET A LOPSIDED BUNCH OF NUMBERS THAT
WILL REALLY NOT BE A TRUE PICTURE OF WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON OUT THERE.
AND WHAT WILL WE DO? WHO WILL WE HARM? WHAT CHILDREN WILL NOT
MAKE IT TO THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING HERE? I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE
-- THE TASK FORCE AND REALLY WHAT IT'S AIMED TO DO.
SO I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT THE BILL AS -- AS I'M SURE
YOU KNOW, BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO DO A BILL LIKE THIS, WE NEED TO BRING
EVERY SIDE OF THE -- EVERY SIDE TO THE TABLE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE OUR
BEST UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE NEED, MOTHERS, PARENTS,
FAMILIES, PRO-LIFE, ABORTION, THEY -- THEY NEED TO ALL BE AT THAT TABLE. SO
I GUESS I'M ASKING THAT IF THIS BILL PASSES, PLEASE LOOK AT AMENDMENTS TO
POSSIBLY BRING ALL OF THE PLAYERS TO THE TABLE. THAT WAY THE DEPARTMENT
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OF HEALTH, THE COMMISSIONER CAN SEE EVERY ASPECT OF HOW IT AFFECTS
EVERYONE IN NEW YORK, NOT IN JUST ONE DIRECTION. SO THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, FOR THE TIME AND THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR, FOR ANSWERING
MY QUESTIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. LAWLER.
MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK YIELDS.
MR. LAWLER: OKAY, THANK YOU. WITH RESPECT TO
THE STUDY, IS IT PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON SEEING WHAT RESTRICTIONS AND/OR
IMPEDIMENTS THERE ARE FOR A WOMAN TO RECEIVE ABORTION SERVICES?
MS. GLICK: NO. THE -- THE POINT OF THE BILL IS TO GET
ACTUAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE PREVALENCE OF ORGANIZATIONS. I KNOW
THERE'S BEEN A GREAT DEAL OF DISCUSSION ABOUT MAKING SURE EVERYBODY
HAS ALL THE OPTIONS, BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT IN MOST OF THESE INSTANCES
THE ONE OPTION THAT IS NOT DISCUSSED AT LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY
CENTERS IS THE OPTION TO TERMINATE. SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF
DISINGENUOUSNESS, IF YOU WOULD, SIR. BUT I THINK THAT WE'VE HAD A LOT OF
ANECDOTAL INFORMATION FROM VARIOUS GROUPS THAT HAVE OBSERVED THAT
THERE ARE THESE CENTERS OR FACILITIES THAT ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO COME IN
FOR A FREE TEST, THEY GET THE FREE TEST, BUT SHOULD THEY WANT TO DISCUSS A
TERMINATION THEN THERE IS NOT EXACTLY A FREE DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT. ON
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THE OTHER HAND, IF SOMEBODY IS PREGNANT, THEY SHOULD REALLY BE REFERRED
TO SOMEONE WHO CAN TALK TO THEM BECAUSE SOMEBODY MAY HAVE
UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS THAT COULD AFFECT A HEALTHY PREGNANCY.
AND WE DO HAVE -- WE REALLY DO HAVE A TERRIBLE RECORD IN NEW YORK
STATE ON MATERNAL MORTALITY AND UNDERWEIGHT BABIES, ET CETERA. SO
SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO CONTINUE A PREGNANCY REALLY SHOULD NOT BE
TALKING TO LAY PEOPLE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, OPTIONS; THEY SHOULD BE TALKING
TO A HEALTH PROFESSIONAL.
MR. LAWLER: OKAY. SO IF I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY,
SOMEBODY GOING TO A LIMITED SERVICE PREGNANCY CENTER, PART OF THE
STUDY IS TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE FULLY MEETING THE NEEDS AND
PROVIDING ALL OF THE INFORMATION. IF SOMEBODY GOES TO AN ABORTION
CLINIC, FOR INSTANCE, WILL THIS STUDY EXAMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE
PROVIDING THE PATIENT WITH INFORMATION ABOUT ADOPTIVE SERVICES, FOR
INSTANCE?
MS. GLICK: WELL, PRESUMABLY, IF SOMEONE HAS NOT
GONE TO A LIMITED PREGNANCY CENTER AND HAS CHOSEN INSTEAD TO GO TO A
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, THEY WILL HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THEIR
GYNECOLOGIST ABOUT HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THEIR PREGNANCY, HOW FAR ALONG
THEY ARE, AND THERE CERTAINLY COULD BE SOMEONE IN THE DOCTOR'S OR THE
NURSE PRACTITIONER'S OFFICE WHO ADVISES THEM IF THEY HAVE AMBIVALENCE
TO TALK TO A COUNSELOR. WHEN SOMEBODY CHOOSES TO GO TO AN ABORTION
PROVIDER, THEY'VE ALREADY MADE UP THEIR MIND. PRESUMABLY.
MR. LAWLER: OH, ALL RIGHT. I THINK THE PRESUMABLY
IS AN IMPORTANT WORD BECAUSE I DON'T THINK NECESSARILY THAT EVERYONE
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WHO GOES TO SPEAK WITH A --
MS. GLICK: AND I -- AND I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE
PEOPLE WHO SOMETIMES CHANGE THEIR MIND AND THAT'S -- THEY'RE NOT
FORCED, THERE ARE NO FORCED ABORTIONS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
MR. LAWLER: RIGHT. I -- I GUESS THE -- MY -- MY
POINT IN ASKING THAT IS REALLY THAT IF THE -- IF YOU'RE -- FROM YOUR
PERSPECTIVE THE POINT OF THIS BILL IS TO ENSURE THAT PREGNANT WOMEN ARE
GETTING ALL OF THE INFORMATION.
MS. GLICK: MM-HMM.
MR. LAWLER: SHOULDN'T THAT KIND OF APPLY ACROSS
THE BOARD TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE GETTING ALL OF THE INFORMATION AND
DON'T FEEL, POTENTIALLY, THAT THEIR ONLY OPTION MAY BE AN ABORTION?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I -- I WILL SAY THAT THERE IS BOTH A
CODE OF ETHICS FOR MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS, THEY ARE LICENSED BY THE
STATE. THEY ARE THERE TO ASSIST THEIR PATIENTS IN MAKING DECISIONS THAT
ARE BEST FOR THEM. SO THERE IS A SOME OVERSIGHT WHICH IS NOT IN ANY
WAY TRUE OF LIMITED PREGNANCY CENTERS.
MR. LAWLER: WILL THIS STUDY LOOK AT THE UNMET
NEEDS OF PREGNANT WOMEN BASED ON A NUMBER OF FACTORS SUCH AS RACE OR
ETHNICITY OR RELIGION AND HOW THAT IMPACTS WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE
GETTING THE RIGHT SERVICES?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I -- I THINK THAT THIS -- THE POINT OF
THE BILL IS TO LOOK AT THE PREVALENCE OF THESE PARTICULAR LIMITED SERVICE
PREGNANCY CENTERS AND IN FINDING OUT PERHAPS THAT THEY HAVE VERY FEW
CLIENTS. I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE DO
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YOU SEE? AND THEY MAY SEE VERY FEW PEOPLE AND THAT MAY BE AN
INDICATION THAT PEOPLE ARE, IN FACT, CHOOSING TO GO TO MEDICAL
PROFESSIONALS FIRST AND FOREMOST.
MR. LAWLER: SO --
MS. GLICK: WHICH WOULD BE GOOD THING, IN MY
PERSONAL OPINION.
MR. LAWLER: AND THE REASON I ASK THAT IS BECAUSE
ACCORDING TO STATISTICS THAT WERE RELEASED BY NEW YORK CITY, IN 2012
THERE WERE MORE ABORTIONS THAN LIVE BIRTHS AMONG CERTAIN RACES. AND
SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, ARE -- ARE WE GOING TO EXAMINE AS PART OF THIS
STUDY WHETHER OR NOT WOMEN OF COLOR, FOR INSTANCE, ARE GETTING ALL OF
THE INFORMATION THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE A DECISION IN WHAT'S BEST FOR
THEM, WHETHER THAT IS TO HAVE AN ABORTION OR TO SEE A -- A BIRTH ALL THE
WAY THROUGH. IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS VERY TARGETED TOWARDS ONE DIRECTION
AND NOT REALLY TRYING TO ENSURE THAT ALL WOMEN ACROSS THE STATE HAVE ALL
OF THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE.
MS. GLICK: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS IN -- IN THE
STUDY IS THE BASIC DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION THAT IS REQUESTED. BUT I
WOULD SAY TO YOU THAT THIS -- MY BELIEF IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT
ACCESS FOR -- ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE FOR MOST NEW YORKERS WHICH IS WHY
I AM ON MR. GOTTFRIED'S NEW YORK HEALTH BILL TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS A
WIDER ACCESS TO BASIC HEALTH CARE FOR ALL NEW YORKERS, REGARDLESS OF
WHETHER THEY ARE PREGNANT OR NOT, OR PLANNING TO BE, ET CETERA. SO THAT
TO ME IS A DIFFERENT PIECE OF LEGISLATION IN TERMS OF ENSURING THAT
EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO BASIC HEALTH CARE, AND I FULLY SUPPORT THAT BILL
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AND HOPE THAT WE CAN MOVE THAT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
MR. LAWLER: OKAY. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE
GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE?
MS. GLICK: YEAH, SOMEWHAT.
MR. LAWLER: OKAY. SO -- YEAH, THERE ARE CDC
STATISTICS, THERE'S ALSO STATISTICS THAT HAVE BEEN COMPILED BY THE
GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE. ACCORDING TO THE GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE IN --
FROM 2011 TO 2017, IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IN 2011 THERE WERE 94
CLINICS THAT PROVIDE ACCESS TO ABORTION; IN 2017, THERE WERE 113. THAT
IS THE SECOND-MOST IN THE COUNTRY BEHIND CALIFORNIA. CALIFORNIA HAD
160 IN 2011 AND 161 IN 2017. SO WE SAW A -- A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE OF
19 CLINICS COMPARED TO CALIFORNIA WHICH ONLY SAW AN INCREASE OF ONE.
NOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ACTUAL ABORTION RATES PER EVERY 1,000
WOMAN -- WOMEN AGE 15 TO 44, IN 2011 NEW YORK STATE'S RATE WAS
34.2; IN 2017 IT WAS 26.3. NOW, I GUESS DEPENDING ON YOUR
PERSPECTIVE, A DECLINE IN THE NUMBER OF ABORTION CASES IS PROBABLY A
GOOD THING. MAYBE PEOPLE'S NEEDS ARE BEING MET AND THEY'RE -- AND
THEY'RE CHOOSING TO BRING A -- A BABY TO FULL TERM. IF YOU LOOK AT ACROSS
THE COUNTRY THE NUMBER OF ABORTION RESTRICTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN ENACTED,
OBVIOUSLY IT VARIES STATE TO STATE, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ABORTION
RESTRICTIONS HAVE BEEN ENACTED IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK DURING THAT
TIME PERIOD?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I DON'T SEE WHAT -- HOW THAT IS
GERMANE TO THE BILL, BUT I THINK THAT WE'VE SEEN IN -- ACROSS THE COUNTRY
HUNDREDS OF RESTRICTIONS, SO IT IS NOT -- IT WOULD NOT BE A SURPRISE TO ME
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AND SO I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU HAVE SO MUCH DATA SO
OBVIOUSLY THAT IS NOT PART OF A STUDY THAT WE NEED TO DO, BUT I THINK IT'S
INTERESTING THAT THERE'S BEEN A DIMINUTION OF ABORTIONS IN THE STATE. I
SUSPECT THAT AT SOME POINT THAT MAY CHANGE BASED ON THE INCREASED
LIMITATIONS IN OTHER PLACES. SO WE HAVEN'T ADDED RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE
WE BELIEVE IN THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT OF WOMEN TO MAKE CHOICES, OR
BARRING A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, WE BELIEVE THERE IS A MORAL RIGHT OF
WOMEN TO DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THEIR BODIES. BUT WE ARE QUITE OFF
THE GERMANE POINT OF THE BILL.
MR. LAWLER: I WOULD DISAGREE, AND I'LL GET TO WHY
IN A SECOND. THE -- JUST TO ANSWER THE QUESTION FOR EVERYONE, THERE --
THERE HAVE BEEN ZERO RESTRICTIONS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK DURING THE
TIME PERIOD OF 2011 TO 2017 AND, IN FACT, IT PREDATES ME, BUT I BELIEVE
YOU WERE THE SPONSOR OF THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ACT WHICH PASSED IN
2019, AND I BELIEVE THIS YEAR MARKS 51 OR 52 YEARS SINCE NEW YORK
STATE LEGALIZED ABORTION TO BEGIN WITH, WHICH WAS BEFORE ROE V. WADE.
SO I -- I GUESS MY QUESTION TO YOU ULTIMATELY IS GIVEN THAT NEW YORK
STATE HAS HAD ZERO RESTRICTIONS PUT IN PLACE OVER THE LAST DECADE-PLUS,
GIVEN THE FACT THAT NEW YORK STATE HAS INCREASED THE NUMBER OF
ABORTION CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE STATE, GIVEN THE FACT THAT YOU PASSED
THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ACT, AND I'M SURE YOU'RE VERY PROUD OF THAT, IS
IT YOUR CONTENTION THAT WOMEN IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK DO NOT HAVE
ACCESS TO ABORTION OR DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH ACCESS TO ABORTION?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT IN GENERAL WOMEN
DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE. SO I THINK THAT THAT'S FOR SURE.
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AND WE CERTAINLY SEE THAT WOMEN -- MATERNAL MORTALITY AND -- AND
OTHER HEALTH CONCERNS ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN ON THE INCREASE, WHICH
SHOULD CONCERN ALL OF US. AND SO THE POINT OF THE BILL IS TO SEE WHETHER
THE ANECDOTAL INFORMATION THAT ORGANIZATIONS THAT TRACK SOME OF THESE
CONCERNS, BECAUSE WOMEN RAISED THEM WITH THE ORGANIZATIONS, LIKE THE
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF JEWISH WOMEN, THEY HAVE ANECDOTAL INFORMATION
AND I, YOU KNOW, BELIEVE THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH TO DETERMINE IF THIS -- THE PREVALENCE OF LIMITED SERVICE
PREGNANCY CENTERS IS AN ISSUE OR NOT AND WHAT THE DYNAMICS OF THAT ARE.
THAT'S THE POINT OF THE STUDY BILL AND, YES, I THINK THAT WE DON'T HAVE
ENOUGH ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE FOR WOMEN OR, FRANKLY, FOR MEN WHICH IS
WHY MR. GOTTFRIED'S BILL IS SO IMPORTANT.
MR. LAWLER: OKAY. THANK YOU.
ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. LAWLER: I THINK IT IS SOMEWHAT ALARMING 52
YEARS AFTER NEW YORK STATE LEGALIZED ABORTION AND NEARLY THREE YEARS
AFTER THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION PASSED HER REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH
ACT, AND AT A TIME WHERE NEW YORK STATE HAS CONSISTENTLY RANKED AT OR
NEAR THE TOP OF THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS PROVIDED EVERY YEAR IN THE
STATE, THAT THE SPONSOR SOMEHOW WOULD LIKE TO INDICATE THAT PEOPLE IN
THE STATE OF NEW YORK DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO ABORTION SERVICES IN NEW
YORK STATE. THIS BILL IS OBVIOUSLY INTENDED TO GO AFTER ORGANIZATIONS
THAT MAY COUNSEL WOMEN AND FAMILIES ABOUT OTHER OPTIONS BEYOND
ABORTION. I THINK GENERALLY SPEAKING ANYONE WHO WOULD GO USE THOSE
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SERVICES IS PROBABLY INCLINED TO SUBSCRIBE TO THAT POSITION OR THAT POINT
OF VIEW. I THINK THE IDEA THAT THE SPONSOR WANTS TO FOCUS ON THAT WHILE
SO MANY ABORTIONS ARE BEING PROVIDED THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF NEW
YORK IS UNFORTUNATE, AND I THINK THERE IS A LOT BETTER USE OF OUR TIME
AND STATE RESOURCES TO HELP WOMEN AND PREGNANT WOMEN THROUGHOUT
OUR STATE. AND WITH THAT, I WILL BE VOTING NO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. SALKA.
MR. SALKA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW BRIEF QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: SURE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK YIELDS.
MR. SALKA: THANK YOU, MS. GLICK. NOW, SEVERAL
TIMES YOU'VE CITED THIS ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE COMING FROM THESE GROUPS.
WOULD ONE OF THOSE GROUPS BE PLANNED PARENTHOOD?
MS. GLICK: I'M SORRY?
MR. SALKA: WOULD ONE OF THE GROUPS THAT HAVE
GIVEN YOU THIS ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE, IF YOU WILL, OF PEOPLE NOT RECEIVING
THE PROPER COUNSELING, WOULD ONE OF THOSE GROUPS BE PLANNED
PARENTHOOD?
MS. GLICK: NO.
MR. SALKA: SO PLANNED PARENTHOOD HAS NOT -- NOT
CHIMED IN AT ALL ON THIS.
MS. GLICK: NO.
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MR. SALKA: OKAY. THANK YOU. NOW, THIS TASK
FORCE IS GOING TO BE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN DESIGNING THE QUESTIONNAIRE
AND DESIGNING THE STUDY? OR WILL THIS BE SOMETHING THAT WILL BE UNDER
THE PURVIEW OF THE DOH? JUST TRYING TO GET AN IDEA ABOUT --
MS. GLICK: THE DEPARTMENT CONDUCTS THE STUDY.
MR. SALKA: I'M SORRY?
MS. GLICK: THE DEPARTMENT CONDUCTS THE STUDY.
THE TASK FORCE PRESUMABLY LOOKS AT THE DATA AND PROVIDES
RECOMMENDATIONS.
MR. SALKA: SO WHO WILL BE GUIDING THE PARAMETERS
ON THIS STUDY? IN OTHER WORDS, WHO WILL BE MAKING UP THE -- THE
CRITERIA THAT THEY WILL USE TO DESIGN THE STUDY THAT WILL -- THE RESULTS THAT
WILL BE -- THAT WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE TASK FORCE FOR -- FOR
IMPLEMENTATION? WHO'S GOING TO MAKE UP THE QUESTIONS?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THE -- THE BILL LISTS VARIETY OF AREAS
FOR DATA COLLECTION AND SO THAT'S -- THE BILL DIRECTS THAT. THE REPORT BY
THE DEPARTMENT TO THE TASK FORCE WILL BE AN AGGREGATION OF THAT
INFORMATION AND THE TASK FORCE WILL PRESUMABLY PROVIDE
RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON THE DATA RECEIVED.
MR. SALKA: BASED ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE
DATA THAT'S COMPILED BY THE DOH.
MS. GLICK: THEY WILL MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS
BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN COLLECTED.
MR. SALKA: AND OF COURSE IT WILL BE -- ULTIMATELY
BE THE DOH THAT WILL DECIDE, GIVEN THAT DATA, ON WHAT DIRECTION THEY
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WANT TO GO WITH ANY KIND OF IMPLEMENTATION OF POLICY --
MS. GLICK: I -- I DON'T BELIEVE THE TASK FORCE HAS THE
AUTHORITY TO TELL THE DEPARTMENT EXACTLY WHAT TO DO, BUT IT CAN MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS.
MR. SALKA: OKAY. ON -- ON THIS TASK FORCE, I
NOTICED YOU HAVE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE BUREAU OF SOCIAL JUSTICE,
BUT I DON'T NOTICE -- I DIDN'T NOTICE IF THERE'S ANY MEMBERS THAT WOULD
BE ABLE TO ADD TO THE DISCUSSION FROM LIKE CLERGY, ADOPTION SERVICES,
ANY KIND OF ETHICAL PANEL OR ANY KIND OF INPUT FROM SOMEONE WHO
COULD GIVE MORE OF A -- OF AN ETHICAL POINT ON -- ON -- ON THIS ON SOME
OF THE DATA?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS
HAVE A CODE OF ETHICS. SO TO SAY THERE'S NOBODY WHO HAS ANY ETHICAL
BACKGROUND IS A -- IS -- IS PERHAPS INCORRECT.
MR. SALKA: OR -- WELL, THE OTHER TWO GIVEN THAT
ADOPTION SERVICES AND CLERGY, BECAUSE THIS SOMETIMES IS CRITICAL
DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE BY THE WOMAN AND SOMETIMES IT'S GOOD TO HAVE
INPUT FROM ALL -- ALL ASPECTS OF HOW THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT THEIR LIVES.
MS. GLICK: WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I DON'T THINK THAT
THE CLERGY, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE A VERY DIVERSE STATE WITH LOTS
OF DIFFERENT RELIGIONS SO I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE VERY COMPLICATED TO
CHOOSE ONE OR 12 PEOPLE TO REPRESENT THE CLERGY.
MR. SALKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU, MS. GLICK.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. SALKA: WHAT WE'RE SEEING NATIONWIDE, AND I
WOULD THINK THAT THE SAME KIND OF NUMBERS PERTAIN TO NEW YORK STATE
ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THAT AS YOU SEE MORE AND MORE OPINION OF THE
PUBLIC THAT IS PRO-LIFE OR ANTI-ABORTION. AND I'M AFRAID THAT THESE TYPES
OF LEGISLATIONS ARE IN RESPONSE TO THAT THREAT, THAT WHAT THEY'VE BEEN --
WHAT THEY'VE BEEN PRIORITIZED OR WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO BY
ALLOWING THIS TO BE EASIER AND EASIER TO GET AN ABORTION IS STARTING TO BE
CONTRARY TO PUBLIC OPINION. SO I SUSPECT THAT WE'RE GOING TO START
SEEING MORE AND MORE HARASSMENT OF THESE LIMITED PREGNANCY CENTERS.
MY WIFE VOLUNTEERED AT ONE, YOU KNOW, GRANTED, THEY DIDN'T DISCUSS
ABORTION THAT MUCH BUT THEY DID AN ULTRASOUND AND MANY, MANY TIMES
THERE WERE PROFESSIONALS ON STAFF AS VOLUNTEERS, SOME PAID, AND THEY
WERE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE IF THERE WAS, IN FACT, AN ISSUE OR A PROBLEM WITH
A WOMAN'S PREGNANCY, SOMETIMES VERY EARLY IN STAGE OF THAT
PREGNANCY.
SO I AGREE THAT HEALTH CARE FOR WOMEN, ESPECIALLY POOR
WOMEN, IS EMBARRASSING IN NEW YORK STATE. AND I DON'T NECESSARILY
AGREE THAT MR. GOTTFRIED'S BILL IS GOING TO DO IT -- ADDRESS THAT, BUT AT
ANY RATE I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS THAT WE HAVE SOME
CONCERN FROM THE PRO-ABORTION COMMUNITY THAT THE PUBLIC IS STARTING TO
CHANGE THEIR MIND ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY THINK THAT'S AN ACCEPTABLE
PRACTICE. AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO START SEEING MORE AND MORE OF
THESE TYPES OF -- OF HARASSMENT OF -- AND THE OPPORTUNITY OR THE -- THE
EFFORT TO -- TO SHUT THEM DOWN. SO THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THANK YOU
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FOR THE TIME.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 5499. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER
WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION
IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS
PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE REASONS THAT
HAVE BEEN CITED. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY FREE TO VOTE IN
FAVOR ON THE FLOOR OR BY CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF
THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE COLLEAGUES THAT WOULD
DECIDE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE
MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE, THEIR VOTE WILL BE PROPERLY RECORDED.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
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MS. LUNSFORD TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'M
FASCINATED BY THE CONCERN HELD BY SOME PEOPLE IN THIS CHAMBER OVER A
STUDY, OVER FINDING OUT OBJECTIVE INFORMATION SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND
HOW SOME OF THESE CRISIS PREGNANCY CENTERS ARE WORKING. WHO'S
IMPACTED BY THEM? WHAT SORT OF SERVICES ARE BEING PROVIDED? ARE
THEY ALL SAME? ARE THEY ALL DIFFERENT? WHAT IS IT THAT WE'RE SO WORRIED
ABOUT DISCOVERING IN A STUDY? WE JUST DEBATED A STUDY FOR LIKE AN
HOUR. WE JUST WANT TO LEARN INFORMATION. WE SAW THIS ON GUN
VIOLENCE, AS WELL. WHY ARE PEOPLE SO WORRIED ABOUT LEARNING ABOUT A
TOPIC? IS IT THAT WE'RE CONCERNED WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DISCOVER?
BECAUSE IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE NEED THE STUDY ALL THE MORE.
I LOOK AT SOME OF THESE CENTERS, THERE ARE SOME IN
ROCHESTER, AND BOY, DO THOSE WEBSITES LOOK LIKE HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS.
I WAS SHOCKED TO DISCOVER THAT ONE OF THEM WASN'T AN ABORTION PROVIDER
BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE MARKETING WORKS. IF I WAS A HEALTH CARE CLINIC
AND PURPORTED TO PROVIDE A MEDICAL SERVICE FOR, LET'S SAY, DIABETES AND
SOMEONE WALKED IN LOOKING FOR A MEDICAL SERVICE AND I PROVIDED THEM
RELIGIOUS COUNSELING, I THINK THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WOULD HAVE
SOME KIND OF CONCERN ABOUT THAT. SO I'M VERY INTERESTED TO DISCOVER
WHAT THIS STUDY WILL SHOW US, AND AFTER WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION
WHERE WE MAY DISCOVER THERE'S NO PROBLEM AT ALL, THEN WE CAN HAVE
THIS BROADER DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT THE NEEDS ARE OF THE PEOPLE OF NEW
YORK STATE. I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LUNSFORD IN THE
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AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
YOU KNOW, PRIOR TO JOINING THIS ESTEEMED BODY, I SERVED AS THE
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL LATINA INSTITUTE FOR REPRODUCTIVE
JUSTICE, AND I SPENT THE LAST 13 YEARS FIGHTING FOR HEALTH, DIGNITY, AND
JUSTICE FOR LATINAS, THEIR FAMILIES, AND THEIR COMMUNITIES. AND I
WORKED TO ENSURE THAT EACH PERSON HAS ACCESS TO THE REPRODUCTIVE
HEALTH CARE THEY NEED TO DETERMINE IF, WHEN, AND HOW TO CREATE THE
FAMILIES THEY WISHED TO CREATE, AND THEN TO RAISE THOSE FAMILIES WITH
DIGNITY. WORKING ACROSS THE COUNTRY, I'VE SEEN THE HARMS OF POLICIES
THAT RESTRICT ACCESS TO THE FULL SPECTRUM OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE,
INCLUDING ABSTINENCE ONLY EDUCATION THAT PERPETUATES LIES AND HARMFUL
STIGMAS ABOUT WOMEN AND LGBTQ COMMUNITIES, TO THE PROLIFERATION
OF THESE FAKE CLINICS THAT PROVIDE INACCURATE, MISLEADING AND
STIGMATIZING INFORMATION ABOUT ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION. I HAVE
WITNESSED WHAT THE DENIAL OF ABORTION CARE THAT OFTEN FORCES VULNERABLE
IMMIGRANTS, WORKING-CLASS, AND LOW-INCOME COMMUNITIES INTO
SELF-MANAGING THEIR CARE AS OPPOSED TO BEING ABLE TO ACCESS A DOCTOR
FOR AN ABORTION.
THESE POLICIES DON'T PREVENT ABORTION, IT JUST FORCES
THE PROCEDURE UNDERGROUND, SOMETIMES AT THE COST OF THE LIFE OF THE
PREGNANT PERSON. THEY ARE ROOTED IN SEXISM, RACISM, HOMOPHOBIA,
XENOPHOBIA, NOT SCIENCE AND NOT HEALTH CARE. I'M SO PROUD OF THE
SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS BILL FORWARD. THIS BILL WOULD SIMPLY
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AUTHORIZE THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO CONDUCT A STUDY REGARDING
THE HEALTH AND RESOURCES NEEDED FOR PREGNANT PEOPLE, AS WELL AS THE
POTENTIAL NEGATIVE IMPACTS OF PRACTICES BY THESE UNLICENSED FACILITIES,
WHICH I WILL CALL FAKE CLINICS. IT IS UNCONSCIONABLE THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY
HAVING THIS DEBATE HERE IN NEW YORK STATE. SO WE MUST UNDERSTAND
THE HARM, WE MUST ADDRESS THE HARM, AND WE MUST ENSURE THAT ANY
PREGNANT NEW YORKER CAN GET ACCESS TO THE HEALTH CARE THAT THEY NEED
WITHOUT STIGMA, WITHOUT SHAME, OR WITHOUT COERCION. I PROUDLY VOTE IN
THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS
IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT TO
COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THIS BILL. THIS IS A BILL THAT WILL ALLOW US TO
STUDY AND GATHER DATA SO WE CAN MAKE EVIDENCE-BASED DECISIONS.
THERE ARE MANY, MANY CRISIS PREGNANCY CENTERS THAT REALLY MARKET
THEMSELVES TO LOOK LIKE SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT. THEY ARE FREE TO BE
WHAT THEY ARE, BUT THEY ARE -- SHOULD NOT BE FREE TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE
THEY ARE SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT. IT IS VERY BASIC PRINCIPLE ABOUT TRUTH
IN ADVERTISING. IF YOU ARE A MEDICAL FACILITY AND YOU PROVIDE X, Y OR Z
SERVICES, THAT'S GREAT. BUT IF YOU ARE NOT, YOU SHOULD NOT PROMOTE
YOURSELVES AS IF YOU ARE A MEDICAL FACILITY, AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE
HEARING TOO MUCH ABOUT. THIS CERTAINLY EXISTS IN MY DISTRICT, AS WELL,
AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS GATHER DATA TO KNOW WHETHER IT'S OUR
ANECDOTAL REPORTS ARE AS -- COMPLETE, OR THAT WE KNOW WHETHER THIS IS A
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BIG PROBLEM OR A SMALL PROBLEM OR A MIDDLE-SIZED PROBLEM. BUT WE DO
KNOW IT'S A PROBLEM WHEN FACILITIES ARE OUT THERE PROMOTING
THEMSELVES AS SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT. THAT IS ALL THIS BILL SEEKS TO DO
AND I'M VERY PLEASED TO BE ABLE VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SIMON IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. GLICK: WELL, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE BILL
IS PRETTY SIMPLE. IT'S REALLY ABOUT TO IDENTIFY WHAT THE DIMENSIONS OF
THE ISSUE ARE. ANECDOTALLY, I HAVE HEARD FROM YOUNG WOMEN WHO FELT
SNOOKERED; THAT'S A TECHNICAL LEGISLATIVE TERM. THEY WENT INTO A FACILITY
AND IT LOOKED LIKE, IT SMELLED LIKE, IT (INAUDIBLE) LIKE, IT SOUNDED LIKE,
BUT WHEN THEY GOT THERE AND IT TURNED OUT THEY WERE PREGNANT, THERE
WAS A VERY HARD SELL THAT THEY SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT SEEK AN ABORTION.
SO I THINK IT VERY INTERESTING THAT THERE'S ALL OF THIS
CONCERN THAT THERE BE ALL OF THE OPTIONS WHEN, IN FACT, THESE CLINICS,
THESE FAKE CLINICS, REALLY ARE TARGETED ON PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM
HAVING AN ABORTION. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT IT DELAYS CONFUSED YOUNGSTERS
WHO MIGHT WANT TO CONTINUE A PREGNANCY FROM SEEKING MEDICAL
ATTENTION WHEN THAT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT FOR THEM. YOUNG
WOMEN, IMMIGRANT WOMEN, WOMEN WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE LOOK FOR
A CHEAP ANSWER AND WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS YOU CAN GET SERVICES FOR FREE,
THEY ARE ATTRACTED THERE. AND AS COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID, SOME OF THE
ADVERTISING IS SOMEWHAT MISLEADING, IF NOT OVERLY SO.
AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS SHOCKING
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TO THINK THAT THERE WAS A RAISING THE FACT THAT MAYBE SOME OF THESE
CENTERS MIGHT HAVE SOME HARASSMENT WHEN, IN FACT, FOR AS LONG AS I
HAVE BEEN AN ADULT, ABORTION CLINICS CONSTANTLY HAVE PEOPLE HARASSING
PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE A DECISION ABOUT THEIR OWN PRIVATE HEALTH CARE.
I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANYBODY BEING HARASSED WHETHER THEY'RE GOING INTO
A LIMITED PREGNANCY CENTER OR WHETHER THEY'RE GOING INTO AN ABORTION
CLINIC. WE HAVE TOO MUCH OF THAT BULLY BOY NONSENSE GOING ON ACROSS
THE COUNTRY IN TOO MANY WAYS, WHETHER IT'S A SCHOOL BOARD OR
OTHERWISE. I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY OF THESE CENTERS HARASSED, BUT I
THINK PEOPLE HAVE TO STEP UP AND SAY WE SHOULD KNOW WHAT THE
DYNAMICS OF THE PROBLEM ARE. THE STUDY IS A STUDY IS A STUDY. I
WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
NO, MR. GOODELL, IT SEEMS.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
YOU CALL ON MR. NORRIS FOR AN IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NORRIS FOR AN
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT.
MR. NORRIS.
MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THERE IS A
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NEED FOR AN IMMEDIATE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IN THE PARLOR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: IMMEDIATE
REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IN THE PARLOR.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU
PLEASE PUT THE HOUSE AT EASE, AND I WOULD WANT TO ADVISE MEMBERS THAT
WHILE WE'RE AT EASE THERE PROBABLY WILL BE A NEED FOR A WAYS AND
MEANS AND A RULES COMMITTEE MEETING, SO PLEASE BE ADVISED AND LOOK
FORWARD TO RETURN AT THE CALL OF THE SPEAKER. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE STANDS AT
EASE. WAYS AND MEANS AND RULES TO FOLLOW AS WE COME BACK. THANK
YOU SO VERY MUCH.
(WHEREUPON, THE ASSEMBLY STOOD AT EASE.)
* * * * *
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME
TO ORDER.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. COLLEAGUES, YOU ALL HAVE ON YOUR DESK AN A-CALENDER. I
WOULD ASK THAT YOU WOULD --
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. WE WILL NOW GO RIGHT TO RULES REPORT NO. 69 ON THAT
CALENDAR AND WE WILL TAKE IT UP ON DEBATE BY MS. WEINSTEIN.
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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PAGE 3, RULES REPORT
NO. 69, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09766, RULES REPORT
NO. 69, WEINSTEIN. AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE SUPPORT OF
GOVERNMENT; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON
EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
WEINSTEIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: I HEREBY CERTIFY TO AN IMMEDIATE VOTE,
KATHY HOCHUL, GOVERNOR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA.
AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MS. WEINSTEIN.
MS. WEINSTEIN: SO THIS BILL WOULD PROVIDE $359.5
MILLION IN APPROPRIATION AUTHORITY FOR PAYROLL, CONTRACTS, LIABILITIES, AND
FEDERAL OR STATE ASSISTANCE OF VARIOUS STATE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES,
AS WELL AS THE GOVERNOR, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, COMPTROLLER AND
ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE PERIOD FROM APRIL 1ST THROUGH APRIL 7TH.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE CHAIR
YIELD?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WEINSTEIN
YIELDS, SIR.
MR. RA: SO AS YOU I THOUGHT YOU WOULD, YOU
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COVERED MY FIRST TWO QUESTIONS IN YOUR EXPLANATION WHICH WAS THE
PERIOD THAT THIS COVERS AND THE APPROPRIATION AUTHORITY, SO I JUST HAVE
TWO OTHERS. SO CAN YOU GIVE US SOME UPDATE AS TO WHERE THINGS STAND
AND WHEN WE MAY SEE SOME FINAL BUDGET BILLS?
MS. WEINSTEIN: THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE PROCEEDING
WELL AND I BELIEVE THAT WE WILL IN THE NEXT -- OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS,
BILLS WILL BE PRINTED AND WE WILL BE IN THIS CHAMBER VOTING.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND THIS PROVIDES FINANCING THROUGH
APRIL 7TH, AS YOU SAID, SO WE BELIEVE WE WILL COMPLETE A BUDGET BY
APRIL 7TH, OR BY THE END OF APRIL 7TH?
MS. WEINSTEIN: THAT IS -- THAT IS THE PLAN AS OF
NOW; YES, CORRECT.
MR. RA: THANK YOU.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. RA: JUST QUICKLY, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT BILL.
CERTAINLY WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY IN OUR STATE WORKFORCE TO NOT GET A
PAYCHECK OR MISS A PAYCHECK BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, A DEADLOCK HERE.
BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT WE'RE IN A STATE RULED BY A SINGLE PARTY, YET
TWO YEARS IN A ROW WE'VE HAD TO DO A BUDGET EXTENDER. WE HAVE
PEOPLE WHO HAVE WORKED TIRELESSLY IN ALL OF OUR AGENCIES, IN OUR HEALTH
CARE WORKFORCE, OUR MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WHOSE PAYCHECKS
WERE PUT IN JEOPARDY BY THE FACT THAT WE'RE HERE HAVING TO DO AN
EXTENDER, AND I REALLY JUST DON'T THINK THIS IS THE WAY WE SHOULD OPERATE
AS A GOVERNMENT AND, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE ANY OTHER ENTITY OR
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BUSINESS COULD GET AWAY WITH OPERATING IN THIS MANNER.
AND JUST TO POINT OUT, AS MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES
KNOW, WE HAVE SCHOOL DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT OUR STATE. WHEN THEY FILE
SOMETHING LATE, WE PENALIZE THEM. WE'VE TRIED TO MAKE THAT RIGHT OVER
THE YEARS, HOPEFULLY WE'LL DO THAT IN THIS BUDGET, BUT THEY'VE GOTTEN
PENALIZED. WE HAVE THE LUXURY RIGHT NOW OF HAVING BUDGET SURPLUSES,
WHICH IS GREAT, AND WE'RE IN A BETTER POSITION THAN WE HAVE BEEN IN THE
PAST, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE DECISIONS AND WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.
AND LASTLY, I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S
5:13, SO NOT TOO BAD, BUT WE'VE KNOWN SINCE LAST WEEK AND, REALLY, FOR
WEEKS THAT WE HAD A BUDGET PARTY EXTENDER IN PLACE BY 4 P.M. TODAY, SO
I AM CERTAINLY DISAPPOINTED THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE THIS BILL OFFICIALLY
INTRODUCED REALLY UNTIL A COUPLE OF HOURS AGO. IT CERTAINLY MAKES THE
NEW GOVERNOR LOOK LIKE THE OLD GOVERNOR WHEN WE OPERATE IN THIS
MANNER.
ALL THAT BEING SAID, LIKE I SAID, THIS NEEDS TO BE
ENACTED SO THAT WE TAKE CARE OF OUR STATE WORKFORCE WHO SERVE THE
PUBLIC ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS, SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, BUT
I HOPE THAT BY THE TIME THIS RUNS OUT AT THE END OF THE DAY ON APRIL 7TH,
WE WILL HAVE A FULL AND COMPLETE BUDGET THAT MEETS THE NEED OF NEW
YORKERS. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR. RA.
MR. WALCZYK.
MR. WALCZYK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
THE SPONSOR BE SO KIND TO YIELD FOR SOME --
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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WEINSTEIN, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WEINSTEIN
YIELDS.
MR. WALCZYK: THANK YOU. THROUGH YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, WHEN WAS THE NEW YORK STATE BUDGET DUE?
MS. WEINSTEIN: THE FISCAL YEAR ENDED ON MARCH
31ST.
MR. WALCZYK: ON MARCH 31ST, AND I NOTICED THAT
WE ADJOURNED, MR. SPEAKER, BEFORE MIDNIGHT ON THE 31ST, ACTUALLY EARLY
IN THE AFTERNOON WITH ABOUT 11 HOURS TO SPARE WE ALL LEFT THIS CHAMBER.
THROUGH YOU, MR. SPEAKER, WHY IS THE BUDGET LATE AT THIS POINT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: THERE ARE NEGOTIATIONS THAT ARE
TAKING PLACE AND THINGS WERE GETTING CLOSE ON THE 31ST; WE WEREN'T
THERE YET.
MR. WALCZYK: THROUGH YOU, MR. SPEAKER --
MS. WEINSTEIN: AND WE'RE NOT QUITE THERE YET
EITHER, BUT WE'RE JUST ABOUT.
MR. WALCZYK: I, AS RANKER ON THE HIGHER
EDUCATION COMMITTEE AND AN ACTIVE MEMBER IN THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY, I
PARTICIPATED IN EVERY BUDGET HEARING THAT I WAS INVITED TO, MANY OF
THEM WITH GREAT DIALOGUE WITH YOU, MADAM CHAIR. HOW MANY PUBLIC
HEARINGS DID WE HAVE BETWEEN MARCH 31ST AND TODAY?
MS. WEINSTEIN: AS -- AS -- AS YOU KNOW, THE
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BUDGET HEARINGS STARTED THE WEEK AFTER THE GOVERNOR PRESENTED HER
BUDGET. WE HAD 13 HEARINGS. YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU SAT THROUGH A LARGE
NUMBER OF THEM. THEY WERE ON AVERAGE TEN TO 12 HOURS EACH, SO WE
HAD MORE THAN 100 HOURS OF HEARINGS ON THE BUDGET.
MR. WALCZYK: I'M SORRY, I DON'T THINK I HEARD AN
ANSWER TO MY QUESTION THERE. THROUGH YOU, MR. SPEAKER, I ASKED HOW
MANY PUBLIC HEARINGS DID WE HAVE ON THE BUDGET BETWEEN MARCH 31ST
AT MIDNIGHT, THE DEADLINE, AND TODAY?
MS. WEINSTEIN: WE DIDN'T HAVE -- HAVE HEARINGS
THEN BECAUSE WE HELD THE HEARINGS ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION AND
THE LEGISLATIVE REQUIREMENTS AFTER THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET IS PRESENTED.
MR. WALCZYK: HOW MANY PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE
SCHEDULED BETWEEN -- AND THIS IS, FOR THE RECORD, THIS IS A BILL THAT WILL
EXTEND THE PERIOD FROM APRIL 1ST, THE DEADLINE, TO APRIL 7TH, SO TO KICK
IT OUT A WEEK. HOW MANY PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE SCHEDULED BETWEEN NOW,
APRIL 4TH, AND APRIL 7TH, SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN KNOW WHAT'S BEING
NEGOTIATED INTO THIS BUDGET?
MS. WEINSTEIN: WELL, THERE AREN'T HEARINGS
SCHEDULED BECAUSE NOW WE'RE HAVING THE NEGOTIATIONS TO, BASED ON --
IN LARGE PART, BASED ON WHAT WE HEARD AT THOSE HEARINGS THAT WE DID
HAVE IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY.
MR. WALCZYK: THROUGH YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND I
JUST WONDER, ONE FINAL INDULGENCE, I NOTICE THAT A NUMBER OF MAJOR
ISSUES, WHETHER IT BE ON BAIL REFORM IN THE GOVERNOR'S LEAKED TEN POINTS
ON BAIL REFORM, OR WHETHER IT BE ON A TAXPAYER-FUNDED STADIUM HAVE
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BEEN PUT OUT IN THE PUBLIC REALM AS BUDGET NEGOTIATION PIECES. I WAS
WONDERING AT WHAT POINT IS THE PUBLIC GOING TO HEAR ABOUT THOSE
NEGOTIATIONS BEFORE WE VOTE ON A FINAL BUDGET? WHEN WILL THEIR INPUT
BE ALLOWED IN THIS PROCESS?
MS. WEINSTEIN: WE -- WE HAVE HAD, AS I SAID, WE
HAVE HAD THE PUBLIC INPUT DURING THE HEARINGS. SOME OF THE COMMENTS
WERE -- WELL, CERTAINLY ALL THE COMMENTS WILL HELP GUIDE US AS WE
PREPARE OUR FINAL BUDGET, AND THEY WILL -- THERE WILL BE OPPORTUNITY
ONCE THE BILLS ARE PRINTED FOR PEOPLE TO SEE, BUT CERTAINLY, AS YOU SAY,
THERE HAVE BEEN SOME ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE NEWS IN THE PUBLIC
DOMAIN, AND I'M SURE MANY OF OUR COLLEAGUES HAVE HEARD FROM OUR
CONSTITUENTS ABOUT THOSE ISSUES THAT ARE REPORTED IN THE NEWS.
MR. WALCZYK: THANK YOU.
MR. SPEAKER, I'LL GO ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. WALCZYK: NEW YORKERS OBVIOUSLY DESERVE
AN ON-TIME BUDGET. THEY DESERVE A BUDGET WHERE ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT
ARE LEADING THE PROCESS PROBABLY SHOULD INFORM THEM ABOUT THE MAJOR
ISSUES THAT THEY'RE NEGOTIATING AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO TURN TO TWITTER TO
FIND OUT WHAT THE LATEST IN THE BUDGET PROCESS IS. THEY DESERVE A
BUDGET, MR. SPEAKER, THAT IS NEGOTIATED IN GOOD FAITH, HAS A PUBLIC,
OPEN PROCESS AS OUTLINED IN THE CONSTITUTION. THEY DON'T DESERVE
HAVING A LEGISLATURE NEGOTIATE IN SECRET WITH THREE PERSONS AND ONE
PARTY IN A ROOM, A BUDGET THAT WAS DUE LAST WEEK AND WE ACTUALLY, IF
YOU REMEMBER, MR. SPEAKER, I GAVE THEM ACCOLADES BECAUSE AT THE
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BEGINNING OF LAST WEEK, THERE WAS A BILL THAT WAS BROUGHT TO THE
CHAMBER FLOOR AND IT WAS THE FIRST BUDGET BILL, IT WAS THE DEBT SERVICE
BILL. WE TALKED ABOUT PAYING THE MINIMUM ON OUR CREDIT CARD BILL AS
NEW YORK STATE, AND IT ACTUALLY HAD ENOUGH AGE IN THIS CHAMBER FOR
THE PUBLIC TO SEE IT, FOR US TO DISCUSS IT AND DIGEST IT, AND IT WAS BROUGHT
TO THIS CHAMBER FLOOR WITHOUT A MESSAGE OF NECESSITY OF THE GOVERNOR
SO IT DIDN'T SUBVERT EVEN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS, WHICH WAS A GOOD
THING. AND THEN WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE LAST WEEK? WELL, WE SHUT
DOWN EARLY BEFORE THE BUDGET DEADLINE, 11 HOURS BEFORE THE BUDGET
DEADLINE WE GAVELED OUT IN THIS CHAMBER, WE QUIT. THEY SENT US
HOME. THEY SAID, NO, WE'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO TRY FOR AN ON-TIME
BUDGET ANYMORE, AND THEN WE STAND HERE TODAY AFTER COMING BACK, WE
DEBATE A NUMBER OF BILLS THAT HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
MOST PRESSING ISSUE RIGHT NOW WHICH IS THIS BUDGET, WHICH IS ALREADY
BEYOND ITS DEADLINE. AND THE NEXT BUDGET BILL THAT WE TAKE UP IS ONE TO
KICK THE BUDGETARY CAN DOWN THE ROAD, TO SAY, WELL, WE HAVEN'T MADE
ENOUGH DECISIONS BEHIND THE PUBLIC'S BACK YET SO WE CAN'T DELIVER A
BUDGET TO YOU TODAY.
SO WE'RE PASSING THIS WITH A MESSAGE OF NECESSITY
FROM THE GOVERNOR. I WILL GIVE ACCOLADES BECAUSE AT 5:20 P.M., AT LEAST
NEW YORKERS ARE STILL AWAKE TODAY TO HEAR THIS CONVERSATION. I HOPE
THAT THAT AT LEAST CONTINUES. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME BUDGET BILLS WITH
ENOUGH AGE SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN DIGEST THEM. IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL
IF IN THE SPIRIT OF THE NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION THESE BILLS ALSO HAD
ENOUGH PUBLIC INPUT SO THAT THE PUBLIC AND THE LEGISLATORS THAT
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REPRESENT THEM IN BOTH THE SENATE AND THE ASSEMBLY HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT AND ADJUST, BUT I UNDERSTAND WE'RE BEYOND
THAT. IT'S APRIL 4TH NOW, MR. SPEAKER.
SO I WON'T TAKE UP ANY MORE TIME IN THIS CHAMBER,
BUT I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO THINK ABOUT THIS LONG AND HARD AND I WANT
YOU TO THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY MISS THE NEXT DEADLINE,
WHICH THEY HAVE GIVEN THEMSELVES UNTIL APRIL 7TH. HOW DO YOU VOTE
ON THAT BILL? DO WE ALSO PLAN TO KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD? AND
OBVIOUSLY, MR. SPEAKER, I WANT TO SEE NEW YORKERS GET PAID. WE DID
THE DEBT SERVICE BILL BEFORE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO PAY THE MINIMUM
ON OUR CREDIT CARD AND NOW WE'RE TAKING UP THIS BILL TODAY TO SAY, HEY,
WE SHOULDN'T STOP PAYROLL, AND I KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO PASS AND
THAT'S A GOOD THING BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO SEE EMPLOYEES IN NEW
YORK STATE MISS THEIR PAYROLL. IT'S ALSO INCLUDING A COUPLE OF BILLS THAT
NEW YORK STATE -- ARE COMING DUE FOR NEW YORK STATE IN THE NEXT
COUPLE OF WEEKS, WHETHER IT BE IN THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH OR
OPWDD, AND WE SHOULD PAY OUR BILLS. BUT THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS
WHEN THE NEXT EXTENDER COMES AND WHAT THAT DOES TO THE PROCESS AND
THE LACK OF OPENNESS AND TRANSPARENCY WHEN A GOVERNOR WHO IS THE
SAME PARTY AS BOTH LEGISLATIVE LEADERS TOOK OFFICE AND SAID, I AM
GOING TO BE THE MOST TRANSPARENT, AND WE HAVEN'T HAD A PUBLIC HEARING
IN WEEKS ABOUT WHAT'S BEING NEGOTIATED IN SECRET IN THIS BUDGET.
WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I'LL CONCLUDE MY COMMENTS.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
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MR. LAWLER.
MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WEINSTEIN, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. WHEN
SESSION WAS ADJOURNED ON THE 31ST, DID YOU REMAIN IN ALBANY THROUGH
THE WEEKEND INTO TODAY TO NEGOTIATE, OR DID YOU GO BACK TO YOUR
DISTRICT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: THE SPEAKER AND OUR STAFF WAS
HERE. I -- THEY HAVE THIS MIRACULOUS THING CALLED A TELEPHONE AND
COMPUTER SO I WAS AVAILABLE AND COMMUNICATED WITH THE STAFF
THROUGHOUT THAT -- THAT TIME PERIOD.
MR. LAWLER: OKAY, I WAS JUST CURIOUS. IT'S NOT A
PROBLEM ABOUT TELECOMMUNICATION, APPARENTLY THE GOVERNOR'S STAFF ALL
HAD COVID SO I'M SURE THEY WERE NOT DOING IT IN PERSON, SO THAT'S FINE.
WHY DO YOU THINK THERE'S BEEN SO LITTLE TRANSPARENCY AROUND THIS
BUDGET? WHEN THE GOVERNOR TOOK OFFICE, SHE PROMISED A NEW ERA OF
TRANSPARENCY. SHE SAID SHE WOULD INFORM THE PUBLIC OF WHAT'S GOING
ON. TODAY SHE HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN TEN DAYS
DURING THESE SECRET BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS. WHY -- ARE YOU DISAPPOINTED
BY THE LACK OF TRANSPARENCY IN THIS PROCESS?
MS. WEINSTEIN: AS I SAID TO MR. WALCZYK, AND
YOU WERE IN MANY OF THE BUDGET HEARINGS ALSO, WE HAD OVER 100 HOURS
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OF BUDGET HEARINGS WHERE WE GOT TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS
AGENCIES. AS TO THE AGENCIES, AS TO THE NEEDS OF THE PUBLIC ON
COMMENTING ON THE BUDGET AND WE ARE TAKING, AS WE DO EVERY YEAR,
TAKING THAT INFORMATION AND WORKING ON CRAFTING A BUDGET THAT
ADDRESSES THE NEEDS OF NEW YORKERS.
MR. LAWLER: WELL, ACCORDING TO THE SPEAKER, PART
OF THE REASON THAT THE BUDGET IS DELAYED IS BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR TRIED
TO INTERJECT POLICY INTO THE FINAL WEEKS OF BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS. SO
OBVIOUSLY, AS MY COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT, THERE'S BEEN NO HEARINGS SINCE
THE GOVERNOR INTERJECTED THE POLICY PROPOSALS INTO THE BUDGET. SO
THAT'S WHY THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT THIS LACK OF TRANSPARENCY BECAUSE SO
MANY OF THE THINGS THAT ARE NOW BEING NEGOTIATED OR THAT HAVE CAUSED
THIS BUDGET TO BE LATE WERE NOT DISCUSSED IN THOSE BUDGET HEARINGS;
THEY HAVE SINCE BEEN INTRODUCED. SO I JUST -- I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT
LACK OF TRANSPARENCY AND I WONDER IF YOU SHARE THAT CONCERN.
MS. WEINSTEIN: I DO NOT. THE -- THAT'S A NORMAL
PROCESS THAT THERE ARE ISSUES THAT ARISE AFTER THE BUDGET IS PRESENTED AND
THE -- SINCE YOU WERE AT THE BUDGET HEARINGS YOU KNOW THAT THERE WERE
ISSUES THAT CAME UP THAT WEREN'T IN THE BUDGET, ALSO AND WHAT --
INCLUDING CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUES THAT WEREN'T THERE. SO THERE ACTUALLY
WAS A LOT OF PUBLIC COMMENT. AND AS I MENTIONED, THE ISSUES HAVE ALL
BEEN IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN IN TERMS OF NEWS MEDIA AND MANY -- MOST
OF US, I'M SURE, HAVE HEARD FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS IN SUPPORT OR
OPPOSITION TO THOSE VARIOUS PROPOSALS.
MR. LAWLER: WHEN WE VOTED ON THE ASSEMBLY
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ONE-HOUSE RESOLUTION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HIGHLIGHTED IS THAT
THERE WAS VERY LITTLE POLICY IN THE ONE-HOUSE RESOLUTION AND THAT, YOU
KNOW, IT WAS REALLY DOLLARS AND CENTS. DO YOU EXPECT POLICY TO BE IN
THE FINAL BUDGET?
MS. WEINSTEIN: THERE PROBABLY, AND AS THERE
HAVE BEEN OVER THE YEARS, SOME AMOUNT OF POLICY, BUT I WOULD DARE SAY
THAT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF POLICY ISSUES WILL NOT BE -- THAT
HAVE BEEN PUT FORWARD WILL NOT BE IN -- IN THE BUDGET.
MR. LAWLER: AS THE CHAIR OF WAYS AND MEANS,
ARE YOU DISAPPOINTED THAT THERE WILL BE POLICY IN THE BUDGET?
MS. WEINSTEIN: I THINK THAT AT TIMES A BUDGET IS A
NEGOTIATION AND ALL SIDES -- SOMETIMES YOU GET YOUR IDEAL SITUATION AND
SOMETIMES -- AND COMPROMISE IS PART OF IT. I THINK THERE ARE IMPORTANT
ISSUES WITH TIMING THAT WE DO NEED TO ADDRESS NOW.
MR. LAWLER: WHAT -- WHAT TIME WAS THIS BUDGET
EXTENDER RELEASED TODAY?
MS. WEINSTEIN: IT WAS EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON.
THERE WAS AN ERROR IN THE ORIGINAL DRAFT, SO IT TOOK A LITTLE LONGER THAN
WE HAD ANTICIPATED.
MR. LAWLER: OKAY. AND AS WAS MENTIONED AT THE
BEGINNING, WE NEEDED A MESSAGE OF NECESSITY TO VOTE ON THIS RIGHT
NOW, CORRECT?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES, CORRECT.
MR. LAWLER: OKAY. DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT WE
WILL NEED A MESSAGE OF NECESSITY TO VOTE ON THE REMAINDER OF THE
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BUDGET?
MS. WEINSTEIN: IT MAY BE POSSIBLE, BUT WE WILL
HAVE TO SEE WHEN WE CAN GET FINAL AGREEMENT. THERE'S JUST A FEW ITEMS
THAT -- SMALL ITEMS THAT ARE OUTSTANDING, AND THEN WE WILL BE ABLE TO
PRINT THE BUDGET, AND WE'LL DETERMINE WHEN WE WILL BE ABLE TO GO
FORWARD. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THE BUDGET.
AS I SAID, SINCE THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF PUBLIC DISCUSSION, I THINK THAT
NEW YORKERS WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS BUDGET AS SOON AS POSSIBLE ADOPTED
AND NOT HAVE IT -- US DRAG ON FOR DAYS TO WAIT TO AVOID HAVING A
MESSAGE OF NECESSITY.
MR. LAWLER: WELL, CERTAINLY SINCE WE ARE ALREADY
LATE, YOU KNOW, THE SHIP SAILED AND SO -- AND SINCE THERE HAS BEEN A
TOTAL LACK OF TRANSPARENCY DURING THIS PERIOD AFTER THE HEARINGS AND
WHEN THE GOVERNOR INTRODUCED NEW POLICY AND THE SPEAKER SAID THAT
THAT WAS THE HANG-UP, DO YOU AGREE THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW
YORK, THE TAXPAYERS, DESERVE AT LEAST THREE DAYS TO REVIEW THE BUDGET
BILLS?
MS. WEINSTEIN: WELL, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK AWHILE
TO FIGURE OUT -- TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE ACTUALLY HAD THE THREE-DAY
REQUIREMENT. I THINK BEFORE YOU GOT HERE, AND I -- COLLEAGUES WHO
WERE HERE FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME WILL REMEMBER THE STACKS OF BILLS
THAT WE HAVE UNDER OUR DESK. THE THREE YEAR -- THE THREE-DAY PERIOD TO
REVIEW BILLS WAS PRE-COMPUTER, AND PEOPLE HAD TO PHYSICALLY COME TO
THE LEGISLATURE, COME TO THE CAPITOL TO ACTUALLY READ THE BILLS. NOW,
THE INSTANT WE HIT PRINT ON THE -- AND ACTUALLY, WE ALSO THEN WHEN WE
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MOVED AWAY FROM PEOPLE HAVING TO COME HERE, BILLS COULDN'T BE
PRINTED -- WE'D HAVE BILLS GO OUT TO THE PRINTERS AND IT COULD TAKE SIX
HOURS TO PRINT EDUCATION BILLS. AND WE'D HIT SIT HERE, WE PASSED THAT
AND WE'D WAIT ANOTHER FIVE HOURS TO PASS ANOTHER BILL. SO PEOPLE -- THE
PUBLIC AND LEGISLATORS ALSO WEREN'T ABLE TO SEE THE BILLS INSTANTLY. NOW,
WHEN PRINT IS PUBLISHED, THE BILLS GET PUT ONLINE IMMEDIATELY. THE
PUBLIC, LEGISLATORS, ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO CAN SEE THE BILLS
IMMEDIATELY. SO I THINK THE ISSUE OF A GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE IN ORDER TO
PASS A BILL IS MUCH LESS OF AN ISSUE THAN IT HAD BEEN IN THE PAST.
MR. LAWLER: THE ISSUE OF PRINTED BILLS CERTAINLY
PREDATED ME, BUT I DO RECALL PHOTOS WHEN THEY WERE ON THE DESK.
WOULD YOU SAY THEY WERE ABOUT YAY HIGH, OR SO, ON THE DESK?
MS. WEINSTEIN: YES.
MR. LAWLER: OKAY. DO YOU THINK REGARDLESS OF
WHETHER IT'S ON THE COMPUTER, ON THE TABLET, OR PRINTED IN PERSON, DO
YOU THINK ANYONE CAN READ THE ENTIRETY OF THE BUDGET IN LESS THAN 24
HOURS?
MS. WEINSTEIN: THAT DEPENDS HOW FAST A READER
YOU ARE. THE REALITY IS MOST OF THE BUDGET IS REPEATED -- IT'S REPEATED
YEAR TO YEAR. YOU REALLY CAN SEE THE ADDS AND THE ADDITIONS PRETTY --
PRETTY EASILY WITH SOME PRACTICE.
MR. LAWLER: SOMEHOW THERE ALWAYS SEEM TO BE A
LITTLE CHANGE AND A COMMA HERE AND A PERIOD THERE AND A DASH OVER
THERE AND A NUMBER HERE, SO I DON'T KNOW. IT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE FOR
ALL OF US TO DO OUR LEVEL BEST TO READ IT IN A TIMELY MANNER.
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MS. WEINSTEIN: I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS A --
MR. LAWLER: YEAH, MORE OF A STATEMENT.
MS. WEINSTEIN: YOU CAN ALSO ASK SOME OF OUR
COLLEAGUES HOW MANY OF THEM ACTUALLY READ SOME OF THE BILLS FROM
BEGINNING TO END THAT ARE MUCH SHORTER THAN THAT STACK. I THINK PEOPLE
GO TO LOOK AT -- BOTH LEGISLATORS AND ADVOCATES GO TO LOOK AT THE PART OF
THE BUDGET THAT RELATES TO AN ISSUE THAT THEY CARE THE MOST ABOUT, AND I
DO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ADEQUATE TIME FOR PEOPLE TO DO THAT.
MR. LAWLER: I CERTAINLY ACCEPT YOUR PREMISE THAT
MOST LEGISLATORS DO NOT READ THE BILLS.
WITH THAT, I WILL GO ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU. WE HAD NUMEROUS
BUDGET HEARINGS, AS THE ESTEEMED CHAIRWOMAN POINTED OUT. THEY
WERE VERY INFORMATIVE AND I CERTAINLY COMMEND THE CHAIRWOMAN FOR
THE WORK THAT SHE DOES IN HELPING LEAD THOSE BUDGET HEARINGS. I KNOW
SHE PUTS A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT INTO THAT AND I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE
THAT.
BUT PART OF WHAT WE HEARD OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST
MANY WEEKS WAS THAT THIS WOULD NOT BE A BUDGET LACED WITH POLICY;
THIS WOULD BE A BUDGET ABOUT DOLLARS AND CENTS. AND THEN THE
GOVERNOR INTRODUCED HER 10-POINT PLAN TO DEAL WITH SOME OF THE
CHALLENGES THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH, WITH RESPECT TO PUBLIC SAFETY,
BECAUSE APPARENTLY SHE JUST BECAME AWARE OF THESE CHALLENGES ONLY
TWO WEEKS AGO. BUT SHE INTRODUCED THIS 10-POINT PLAN THAT WAS LEAKED
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TO THE PRESS AND THEN TOOK A FEW DAYS FOR HER TO ACTUALLY ACKNOWLEDGE
THAT IT WAS, INDEED, HER PLAN; IN FACT, HER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WAS
RUNNING AWAY FROM THE PRESS WHEN ASKED ABOUT IT. SO IT'S REALLY QUITE
FASCINATING AND, YOU KNOW, THAT PROBABLY WASTED A FEW DAYS THAT COULD
HAVE HELPED SPEED UP THE BUDGET PROCESS AND THE NEGOTIATIONS.
BUT THERE'S BEEN NO TRANSPARENCY AS TO WHERE THESE
NEGOTIATIONS STAND. IT IS STILL THREE PEOPLE IN A ROOM. IT IS STILL A
GOVERNOR, A SPEAKER, AND A MAJORITY LEADER NEGOTIATING A BUDGET
BEHIND CLOSE DOORS. THERE'S A GREAT SONG BY THE WHO CALLED WON'T
GET FOOLED AGAIN, AND IN IT, A LINE THAT SAYS, MEET THE NEW BOSS, SAME
AS THE OLD BOSS. THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT WHILE THE GOVERNOR MAY
APPEAR DIFFERENT FROM THE PREVIOUS ONE, SHE IS CONTINUING DOWN THE
PATH OF SECRECY, OF LATE BUDGETS, AND A TOTAL LACK OF TRANSPARENCY FOR THE
TAXPAYERS.
AS MY COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT, IT WAS PRETTY OBVIOUS
WE NEEDED TO PASS THIS BY 4 O'CLOCK, BUT IT APPARENTLY WAS VERY
DIFFICULT TO GET IT TO US BEFORE THEN, AND IT REQUIRED A MESSAGE OF
NECESSITY, NO LESS. IF WE ENDED SESSION ON THE 31ST WITHOUT COMING TO
A BUDGET AGREEMENT AND WE WERE TOLD WE NEEDED TO BE BACK HERE ON
MONDAY, ONE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT MAYBE ON FRIDAY, I DON'T KNOW, WE
COULD HAVE RELEASED THIS PIECE OF PAPER THAT WAS GIVEN TO US. DOESN'T
SEEM VERY LONG.
SO THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH ONE PARTY RULE. THIS IS THE
PROBLEM WHEN YOU HAVE AN ACCIDENTAL GOVERNOR. NEW YORK STATE
GOVERNMENT IS BROKEN, AND IT NEEDS TO CHANGE. I WOULD NOTE ONE OF THE
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THINGS THAT IS INCLUDED IN THIS EMERGENCY EXTENDER IS HEALTH CARE NEEDS
FOR AMERICAN INDIANS WITHIN NEW YORK, AND I'M GLAD WE'RE GOING TO
PAY THAT BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR JUST FLEECED THEM OUT OF HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, SO IT'S NICE THAT SHE OFFERS THEM HEALTH CARE. BUT
THE PEOPLE DESERVE TRANSPARENCY, THEY DESERVE HONESTY, AND THEY
DESERVE BETTER THAN WHAT WE'RE GETTING. THEY DESERVE A BUDGET THAT
WAS ON TIME, BUT SINCE WE'RE ALREADY LONG OVERDUE, AND MAYBE THEY'LL
GET THEIR RAINCHECK, AS WE HEARD LAST WEEK, IT WOULD BE NICE IF MAYBE
WE GIVE THEM A FEW DAYS TO REVIEW THE BUDGET SINCE WE HAVE EXTENDED
THIS ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE 7TH. SO HOPEFULLY, HOPEFULLY THE GOVERNOR
AND OUR LEGISLATIVE LEADERS CAN COME TO SOME AGREEMENT AND CLUE THE
REST OF US IN ON IT SOMETIME BEFORE THIS BUDGET EXTENDER EXPIRES.
AND WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL VOTE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE BECAUSE I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO HOLD OUR HARD-WORKING
EMPLOYEES, THOSE WITH DISABILITIES, AMERICAN INDIANS WITHIN NEW
YORK, THEY SHOULDN'T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE INCOMPETENT STATE
GOVERNMENT THAT WE HAVE. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT. SO I ENCOURAGE
EVERYBODY TO VOTE YES ON THE EXTENDER, BUT WE SHOULD ALL DEMAND
BETTER FROM OUR STATE GOVERNMENT AND OUR ELECTED LEADERS. THERE
NEEDS TO BE TRANSPARENCY AND THERE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY. AND SO
WITH THAT, I VOTE YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8715. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER
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WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE
MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I MOSTLY RISE TO HONOR
THE SPONSOR OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, BECAUSE WHAT WE SAW HER DO
HERE TODAY IS WHAT WE OFTEN HAVE TO SEE PEOPLE DO, PARTICULARLY
WOMEN, WE JUST SAW IT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WITH THE JUDGE WHO WAS
-- THE SUPREME COURT JUDGE WHEN SHE WAS CONSTANTLY BEAT DOWN ON
ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY TO THE ISSUE. AND I ADMIRE THE
WAY SHE STOOD UP TO THAT, TOLD HER TRUTH, KEPT THE FACTS LIKE THEY WERE,
AND I THINK SHE DID THE RIGHT THING AND I'M VERY, VERY PLEASED WITH HER
RESPONSES. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: COULD YOU PLEASE -- NO.
FIRST, I SHOULD SAY DO YOU HAVE ANY HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS, THEN
AFTER THAT WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL ON MS. HUNTER FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN
ANNOUNCEMENT?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE CAN DO THAT. WE
DO HAVE RESOLUTIONS, NO HOUSEKEEPING. ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2022
FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.
(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 721-724
WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)
MS. HUNTER FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT.
MS. HUNTER: YES, MR. SPEAKER, GOOD EVENING.
THERE WILL BE AN IMMEDIATE NEED FOR A MAJORITY CONFERENCE AT THE
CONCLUSION OF OUR SESSION.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MAJORITY CONFERENCE
AT THE CONCLUSION OF SESSION.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE
THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT 10 A.M.
ON TUESDAY, MARCH -- APRIL THE 5TH, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE ASSEMBLY STANDS
ADJOURNED.
(WHEREUPON, AT 5:42 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD
ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY, APRIL 5TH AT 10:00 A.M., TUESDAY BEING A
SESSION DAY.)
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