WEDNESDAY, MAY 12, 2021                                         11:17 A.M.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

                    SILENCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

                                 VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

                    OF ALLEGIANCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

                    MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

                                 A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MAY 11TH.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO

                                          1



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MAY THE

                    11TH AND ASK THAT THE SAME WOULD STAND APPROVED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

                    ORDERED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, SIR.  FIRST I

                    WANT TO -- I'D LIKE TO OFFER A QUOTE TODAY.  THIS ONE COMES FROM MAYA

                    ANGELOU.  MOST FOLKS KNOW WHO SHE IS AND HOW INFAMOUS SHE WAS IN

                    HER ABILITY TO WRITE AND ARTICULATE.  THESE WORDS TODAY, "TRY TO BE A

                    RAINBOW IN SOMEONE ELSE'S CLOUD.  TRY TO BE A RAINBOW IN SOMEONE

                    ELSE'S CLOUD."

                                 MR. SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES, WELCOME TO CHAMBERS, BOTH

                    THOSE WHO ARE HERE WITH US IN THE CAPITOL AND THOSE WHO ARE REMOTE.  I

                    WANT TO REMIND FOLKS, ALTHOUGH I KNOW WE'VE BEEN KEEPING TRACK ON A

                    REGULAR BASIS NOW BECAUSE IT'S GETTING DOWN TO THE END, THAT THIS IS THE

                    THIRD SESSION DAY OF THE 19TH WEEK OF THE 244TH LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

                    MEMBERS HAVE ON YOUR DESK A CALENDAR, A MAIN CALENDAR, AND A

                    DEBATE LIST.  OUR PRINCIPAL WORK FOR TODAY, MR. SPEAKER, IS GOING TO

                    START WITH TAKING UP RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3 AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO GO

                    IMMEDIATELY TO THAT DEBATE LIST.  AND I CAN OFFER EXACTLY WHICH DEBATES

                    WE'RE GOING TO GO TO FIRST OFF FROM OUR LIST:  WE'RE GOING TO START WITH

                    CALENDAR NO. 234, IT'S ON PAGE 18 OF OUR MAIN CALENDAR; THEN WE'RE

                    GOING TO GO TO CALENDAR NO. 261, WHICH IS ON PAGE 20; AND THEN

                    CALENDAR NO. 267, WHICH IS ALSO ON PAGE 20; AND THEN CALENDAR NO.

                    294, THAT ONE'S ON PAGE 22; AND THEN CALENDAR NO. 309, THAT ONE'S ON

                                          2



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    PAGE 25.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE

                    GOING.  IF THERE NEEDS TO BE ANY ADDITIONS LATER DURING THE SESSION

                    TODAY, WE WILL DO SO AT THE PROPER TIME.  BUT IF THERE'S ANY

                    INTRODUCTIONS OR HOUSEKEEPING, NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  WE DO

                    HAVE SOME HOUSEKEEPING, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. DINOWITZ, PAGE 19, CALENDAR NO.

                    NO. 253, BILL NO. A04186-A, THE AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND

                    ADOPTED.

                                 WITHOUT A -- WITHOUT OBJECTION, ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    REYES TO RECONSIDER THE SUBSTITUTION OF BILL -- SENATE BILL NO. S00070

                    FOR ASSEMBLY BILL NO. A02230 AND SAID SENATE BILL IS RECOMMITTED TO

                    THE COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS AND SAID SENATE BILL IS RESTORED TO

                    ITS PLACE ON THE THIRD -- ON THE ORDER OF THIRD READING.  ON A MOTION

                    BY MS. REYES, THE AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.


                                 WE WILL GO TO PAGE 3, CALENDAR -- ASSEMBLY NO. 287,

                    THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 287, MS.

                    SOLAGES.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM MAY 12, 2021, AS HAITIAN UNITY DAY

                    IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE OBSERVANCE OF

                    HAITIAN HERITAGE MONTH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SOLAGES ON THE

                                          3



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    RESOLUTION.

                                 MS. SOLAGES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WITH THIS

                    RESOLUTION TODAY, MAY 12TH WE HONOR AS HAITIAN UNITY DAY IN

                    COLLABORATION WITH HAITIAN HERITAGE MONTH.  MAY IS USUALLY FILLED WITH

                    ACTIVITIES SUCH AS PARADES, FLAGS, FLAG RAISINGS AND EXHIBITS.  NORMALLY,

                    WE WOULD BE CELEBRATING IN THE CHAMBER WITH HUNDREDS OF INDIVIDUALS

                    THROUGHOUT THE STATE RECOGNIZING HAITIAN -- RECOGNIZING HAITI'S RICH

                    CULTURE AND SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTIONS.

                                 AS YOU KNOW -- AS YOU MAY HAVE HEARD SO MANY

                    TIMES, HAITI HAS BEEN A BEACON OF FREEDOM FOR THE WORLD AND HAS

                    PLAYED SUCH A CENTRAL ROLE IN PROMOTING INDEPENDENCE.  OUR MOTHER

                    COUNTRY OF HAITI IS STRUGGLING.  IT HAS BEEN MORE THAT A DECADE SINCE THE

                    -- THE HAITIAN PEOPLE EXPERIENCED THE EARTHQUAKE.  THERE IS A POLITICAL

                    AND ECONOMIC VACUUM THAT HAITI FACES.  IT'S A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE AND

                    EVERY DAY IT'S BECOMING MORE CHALLENGING.  AND SO TODAY, I PRAY FOR

                    PEACE IN HAITI.  IN MY HEART, I KNOW THE SOLUTIONS WILL COME FROM AND

                    BE CENTERED AROUND THE HAITIAN PEOPLE.  I CALL ON THIS FEDERAL

                    ADMINISTRATION TO COLLABORATE WITH THE HAITIAN AMERICAN DIASPORA AND

                    THE PEOPLE OF HAITI TOWARDS A SHARED GOAL OF PEACE AND PROSPERITY.  AS

                    A HAITIAN AMERICAN, I OWE IT TO OUR ANCESTORS WHO HAVE FOUGHT

                    COURAGEOUSLY TO CONTINUE REMINDING PEOPLE OF THE PRIDE WITHIN HAITIAN

                    HERITAGE AND THE COUNTRY'S HISTORIC FIGHT TO FREEDOM.

                                 SO WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I SAY HAPPY HAITIAN UNITY

                    DAY, L' UNION FAIT LA FORC:  UNITY MAKES US STRONGER.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                          4



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN.

                                 MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO AFFIRM MY SUPPORT FOR THIS RESOLUTION

                    WHICH PROCLAIMS MAY 12, 2021 AS HAITIAN UNITY DAY IN NEW YORK

                    STATE.  AS WE CELEBRATE HAITIAN HERITAGE MONTH, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE

                    RECOGNIZE THE RICH HERITAGE AND CONTRIBUTION OF THE PEOPLE OF HAITI WHO

                    RESIDES HERE IN OUR GREAT STATE AND NATION.  DURING THE HAITIAN HERITAGE

                    MONTH, WE CELEBRATE THE GREAT HISTORY AND CULTURAL TRADITIONS OF THE

                    HAITIANS IN THE UNITED STATES, TEACHING EVERYONE ABOUT THE FIRST AND

                    ONLY BLACK SLAVE ROLE AGAINST THE MIGHTY, POWERFUL FRENCH MILITARY

                    UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF TOUSSAINT LOUVERTURE; JEAN-JACQUES

                    DESSALINES, WHO WAS A FORMER SLAVE; PÉTION; JAMAICAN DUTTY

                    BOUKMAN; GRENADIAN HENRI CHRISTOPHE AND SO MANY MORE WHO HAVE

                    CONTRIBUTED.

                                 HAITIAN UNITY DAY IS ABOUT UNITY.  IT'S ABOUT ALL OF US

                    COMING TOGETHER TO SUPPORT BEING ONE, ONE AS A NATION.  AS YOU HEARD

                    FROM MY COLLEAGUE, HAITI IS STILL UNDERGOING SOME STRUGGLES IN THE

                    GOVERNMENT.  THERE'S FAMINE, PEOPLE ARE STILL HOMELESS.  AND WE

                    CONTINUE TO PRAY AS WE UNIFY ALL OF US FOR THE COUNTRY OF HAITI.  WHEN

                    WE LOVE OURSELVES, WE CAN LOVE OTHERS JUST AS MUCH AND MORE.  AND FOR

                    ALL THAT THE PEOPLE OF HAITI AND THE COMMUNITIES IN OUR -- IN HERE AND

                    ALL THE DOCTORS AND EDUCATORS AND BUSINESS OWNERS AS A RESULT OF THE

                    RESILIENCY AND PROUD -- AND PRIDE AND HARD WORK FROM THE PEOPLE OF

                    HAITI ALL HELP SHAPE LIVES HERE, RIGHT HERE.  AND WE SHOULD NOT

                    DENOUNCE THEIR EXISTENCE AND CONTRIBUTIONS.

                                          5



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MOST RECENTLY, A YOUNG HAITIAN AMERICAN CHILD IN MY

                    DISTRICT BY THE NAME OF ROMY VILSAINT DIED THIS WEEK AFTER A BULLYING

                    INCIDENT AT HIS PUBLIC SCHOOL.  MANY -- MANY IMMIGRANT CHILDREN,

                    INCLUDING HAITIAN AMERICANS, ARE SUBJECT -- SUBJECTED TO ETHNIC

                    HARASSMENT, DISCRIMINATION, AND BULLYING.  BUT TODAY, WE MUST

                    RECOGNIZE THAT WE CAN PREVENT TRAGIC INCIDENTS SUCH AS WHAT HAPPENED

                    TO THIS HAITIAN AMERICAN CHILD IN MY DISTRICT.  WE ARE PROUD OF THE

                    STRIDES MADE IN NEW YORK CITY, SUCH AS HAITIAN STUDIES INSTITUTE AT

                    BROOKLYN COLLEGE, THE ESTABLISHMENT OF LITTLE HAITI, AND SOON THE

                    CO-NAMING OF NEWKIRK AVENUE SUBWAY STATION TO BE CALLED LITTLE

                    HAITI.  WE IN THE ASSEMBLY ARE NOW SIX HAITIAN AMERICAN STRONG AND

                    TWO HAITIAN AMERICAN STRONG IN THE CITY COUNCIL.

                                 WE ARE REALLY EXCITED OF THIS DAY BECAUSE WE WANT TO

                    PROMOTE AND EDUCATE EVERYONE.  REMEMBER, THE HAITIAN FLAG MOTTO:  L'

                    UNION FAIT LA FORC.  THAT IS JUST A NICE WAY TO BEGIN.  WITH UNITY,

                    THERE'S STRENGTH; UNITY, STRENGTH, AND RECLAIMING THE HAITIAN HISTORY.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

                    AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 288, MR.

                    BYRNE.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM MAY 2021, AS WATER SAFETY

                    AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                          6



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NAY.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 289, MS.

                    GIGLIO.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM MAY 12, 2021, AS SCHOOL NURSE DAY

                    IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 290, MR.

                    RAMOS.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM MAY 12, 2021, AS TAIWAN HERITAGE

                    DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 291, MS.

                    BUTTENSCHON.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    ANDREW M. CUOMO TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 2021, AS DISABILITY

                    EMPLOYMENT AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                          7



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MS. BUTTENSCHON ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MS. BUTTENSCHON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    THIS MONTH IS DISABILITY EMPLOYMENT AWARENESS MONTH.  FOR YEARS,

                    MANY PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES HAVE PROVIDED SO MUCH INSIGHT AND

                    CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR STATE AS WELL AS THIS COUNTRY.  AS WE BEGIN THE

                    TRANSITION FROM REMOTE WORKPLACE TO BACK IN PERSON, WE WANT TO ENSURE

                    THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF ALL WORKERS, INCLUDING THOSE WITH DISABILITIES.

                    PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES HAVE WORKED THROUGHOUT THIS PANDEMIC AND

                    HAVE CONTINUED TO WORK AND PROVIDE ESSENTIAL TASKS THAT HELP MAINTAIN

                    OUR COMMUNITIES.  IT IS AN HONOR TO SPONSOR THIS RESOLUTION RECOGNIZING

                    THE MONTH OF OCTOBER, DISABILITY EMPLOYMENT AWARENESS MONTH IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  THIS YEAR'S THEME IS INCREASING ACCESS AND

                    OPPORTUNITY.

                                 AS NEW YORK STATE MEMORIALIZES OCTOBER DISABILITY

                    EMPLOYMENT AWARENESS MONTH, I ASK EVERYONE TO BE A PART AND HELP

                    SUPPORT THIS AS EVERYONE WITHIN OUR STATE DESERVES TO WORK IN A SAFE

                    AND HEALTHY WORKPLACE, AND THOSE WITH DISABILITIES THAT PROVIDE SO

                    MUCH TO OUR COMMUNITY.  AND IT'S -- WE NEED TO BE FAIR AND EQUAL IN ALL

                    WORKPLACES.  SO AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK AND

                    THANK YOU TO THOSE THAT EMPLOY OR ARE EMPLOYEES WITH DISABILITIES.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. WALSH ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WANT TO

                    JUST THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS RESOLUTION FORWARD.  THE

                                          8



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    EMPLOYMENT OR, RATHER, MORE ACCURATELY, THE UNEMPLOYMENT AND UNDER

                    EMPLOYMENT OF INDIVIDUALS WITH INTELLECTUAL AND DEVELOPMENTAL

                    DISABILITIES WITHIN OUR STATE IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE AND IT'S

                    SOMETHING THAT WE AS A BODY REALLY NEED TO CONTINUE TO WORK HARD TO

                    TRY TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE SO MUCH TO GIVE CAN FIND

                    EMPLOYMENT, MEANINGFUL EMPLOYMENT THAT REALLY WILL HELP TO MAKE

                    THEIR LIVES BETTER, GIVE THEM A SENSE OF VALUE AND TO -- TO REALLY

                    CONTRIBUTE TO OUR COMMUNITIES AND TO OUR STATE.  SO I THINK THAT IT'S

                    GREAT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT OCTOBER OF THIS YEAR TO HAVE AS DISABILITY

                    EMPLOYMENT AWARENESS MONTH, BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY SOMETHING THAT

                    WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF IN OUR WORK ALL YEAR ROUND AND EVERY YEAR.  SO

                    THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. SANTABARBARA.

                                 MR. SANTABARBARA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS RESOLUTION

                    FORWARD.  BY RECOGNIZING DISABILITY EMPLOYMENT AWARENESS MONTH IN

                    NEW YORK STATE, WE'RE SHOWING OUR LONGSTANDING COMMITMENT TO

                    BRING AWARENESS AND ACCEPTANCE TO THE PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITIES THAT

                    CONTRIBUTE SO MUCH DESPITE THE UNIQUE CHALLENGES THEY FACE.  EVERY

                    DAY, THOUSANDS OF NEW YORKERS WITH DISABILITIES ARE SHOWING HOW

                    DISABILITY DOES NOT DEFINE THEM.  PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES HAVE TAKEN ON

                    ROLES TO KEEP OUR ECONOMY MOVING WHETHER IF YOU ARE OUR STATE

                    AGENCIES OR OWN LOCAL BUSINESSES.  AND I'M SURE THAT ALL OF US IN THIS

                    LEGISLATIVE BODY TODAY HAVE EITHER A FRIEND, A NEIGHBOR OR A LOVED ONE,

                                          9



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    OR A CONSTITUENT WITH A DISABILITY.  AND THROUGH THESE RELATIONSHIPS WE

                    KNOW HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO BRING ATTENTION NOT ONLY TO THEIR UNIQUE

                    CHALLENGES, BUT TO TAKE THE TIME TO CELEBRATE THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR

                    GREAT STATE.  BY PASSING THIS RESOLUTION TODAY, WE'RE TAKING A STEP

                    FORWARD IN OUR EFFORTS TO PROMOTE A MORE FAIR AND INCLUSIVE SOCIETY FOR

                    ALL.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. ABINANTI.

                                 MR. ABINANTI:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I, TOO,

                    THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS RESOLUTION FORWARD.  I ECHO THE

                    COMMENTS OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO JUST SPOKE.  WE NEED TO URGE ALL

                    EMPLOYERS TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.  WE SHOULD

                    NOT BE LOOKING AT DISABILITIES, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT ABILITIES.  ALL

                    PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT ABILITIES.  ALL PEOPLE CAN CONTRIBUTE.  LET'S JUST

                    LOOK BACK IN HISTORY, PRESIDENT F. D. R. WAS IN A WHEELCHAIR; STEVIE

                    WONDER, THE FAMOUS MUSICIAN, WAS BLIND; HELEN KELLER, REMARKABLE

                    EDUCATOR, HAD SO MANY DISABILITIES; ALBERT EINSTEIN HAD A LEARNING

                    DISABILITY EVEN THOUGH HE HAD ASPERGER'S AS WELL, AND LOOK AT ALL HE DID

                    FOR US; TEMPLE GRANDIN, WHO'S PERHAPS IS THE MOST FAMOUS MODERN DAY

                    PERSON WITH AUTISM, IS A PROFESSOR AND AN AUTHOR.  WHEN GIVEN THE

                    CHANCE, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES CAN MAKE A GREAT CONTRIBUTION TO OUR

                    COMMUNITY.  WE JUST URGE ALL EMPLOYERS TO LOOK AT ABILITIES, NOT

                    DISABILITIES.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BURDICK ON THE

                    RESOLUTION.

                                         10



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. BURDICK:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  AS THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER JUST MENTIONED, THIS RESOLUTION

                    CERTAINLY IS TAKING US ON THE PROPER COURSE AND I'M ESPECIALLY

                    INTERESTED IN SEEING THIS RESOLUTION GO FORWARD AND THANK THE SPONSOR

                    OF THE RESOLUTION.  AS THE NEWLY -- AS THE CHAIR OF THE NEWLY-CREATED

                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE WITH

                    DISABILITIES, WE WILL BE LOOKING AT ALL OPPORTUNITIES TO DEVELOP

                    EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE, BOTH IN THE PRIVATE

                    SECTOR AND THROUGH PUBLIC AGENCIES, ESPECIALLY STATE AGENCIES.  BUT

                    HERE, WE'RE LOOKING FOR ACROSS THE BOARD THE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AND

                    EVERYONE TO SEE OPPORTUNITIES THAT ABSOLUTELY EXIST.  SO AGAIN, MY

                    THANKS TO THE SPONSOR OF THIS RESOLUTION.  I'LL BE VOTING FAVORABLY.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.

                                 PAGE 18, CALENDAR NO. 234, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S00391, CALENDAR NO.

                    234, SENATOR KAMINSKY (PAULIN, GALEF, MAGNARELLI, LUPARDO,

                    ENGLEBRIGHT, OTIS, GOTTFRIED, THIELE, JACOBSON, STERN, KELLES,

                    LAWLER--A00443).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE TOWN LAW AND THE VILLAGE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING LOCAL BUILDING AND PLANNING REGULATIONS TO

                    ACCOMMODATE THE USE OF CERTAIN RENEWABLE AND ALTERNATIVE ENERGY

                    RESOURCES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                                         11



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    REQUESTED, MS. PAULIN.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL

                    WOULD ENCOURAGE, AS LONG AS CONDITIONS PERMIT, TOWNS AND VILLAGES TO

                    CONSIDER CERTAIN RENEWABLE ENERGY SOURCES WHEN CREATING ZONING AND

                    PLANNING REGULATIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. PAULIN, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  LOOKING AT THE TEXT OF THIS BILL, IT

                    SAYS THAT THE ZONING -- LOCAL ZONING AND LAND USE REGULATIONS SHALL,

                    WHICH IS MANDATORY, MAKE PROVISION FOR, SO FAR AS PRACTICAL, A VARIETY

                    OF ENERGY PRODUCTION SYSTEMS, INCLUDING FARM WASTE, ELECTRIC

                    GENERATING EQUIPMENT AMONGST OTHER THINGS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  ACTUALLY, THERE WAS A PROVISION ADDED

                    SINCE WE'VE HAD THIS DEBATE LAST TIME, AND SO I JUST WANT TO CALL YOUR

                    ATTENTION TO SECTION 3, WHICH IS A NEW ADDITION IN 2019 WHICH WOULD --

                    WHICH SPECIFICALLY SAYS, BASED ON OUR DEBATE, MR. GOODELL, THAT

                    NOTHING IN THIS ACT SHALL BE CONSTRUED TO REQUIRE ANY TOWN OR VILLAGE TO

                    AMEND APPLICABLE LOCAL BUILDINGS CODE OR ZONING REGULATIONS.  AND

                    THEN IF YOU GO BACK TO THE SECTION THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, IT ALSO --

                                         12



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    THERE'S A CLAUSE, SO FAR AS CONDITIONS MAY PERMIT THE ACCOMMODATION

                    OF.  SO THE IMPLICATION OF THOSE TWO, READING THEM TOGETHER, WOULD BE

                    THAT IF AND WHEN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WAS DESIGNED, AND NO ONE IS

                    ASKING THEM TO -- TO DESIGN IT OUT OF SEQUENCE, SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE

                    NEXT TIME THEY DID A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN ONE OF THESE COMMUNITIES,

                    THEY SHOULD TAKE THESE THINGS, AS CONDITIONS PERMIT, INTO CONSIDERATION,

                    BUT THAT NOTHING REQUIRES THEM TO AMEND THEIR -- THEIR -- THEIR LOCAL

                    BUILDING CODE OR ZONING REGULATIONS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO LOOKING AT SECTION 3, DOES THAT

                    MEAN, THEN, THAT MUNICIPALITIES ARE FREE TO IGNORE THIS LAW?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, THEY'RE -- WHAT THEY'RE NOT FREE

                    TO DO IS THAT THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS LIST WHEN THEY'RE DOING A

                    COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND TO THINK ABOUT USING THESE ALTERNATIVES.  WHAT

                    WE TRIED TO DO WAS TO SAY THEY DO NOT, THOUGH, HOWEVER, HAVE TO AMEND

                    THEIR LAWS TO ACCOMMODATE ALL OF THEM IF CONDITIONS DON'T PERMIT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF I

                    UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, IF THEY'RE DOING A NEW PLAN, THEY MUST, IT'S

                    MANDATORY, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO RETROACTIVELY AND AMEND EXISTING

                    PLANS; IS THAT AN ACCURATE --

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THEY DON'T HAVE TO -- THEY DON'T HAVE

                    TO AMEND EXISTING PLANS, NO.  THEY -- THEY WOULD JUST -- AND THIS IS FOR

                    A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WHICH SOMETIMES -- YOU KNOW, I HAVE BEEN

                    INVOLVED IN A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN MY OWN VILLAGE MANY YEARS AGO,

                    AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT SOMETIMES IS WRITTEN IN THESE PLANS IS LOOKING AT

                    THE FUTURE.  SO IT'LL HAVE SOME IMMEDIATE THINGS TO DO, BUT THEN PERHAPS

                                         13



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    IN THE FUTURE THEY MAY WANT TO CONSIDER SOME OF THESE TYPES OF

                    ALTERNATIVES.  AND SO THEY WRITE THAT AS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE

                    STUDIED IN THE FUTURE, LOOKED AT IN THE FUTURE, BUT WE WANTED TO MAKE IT

                    CLEAR THAT THEY -- THAT IT WAS SPECIFIC TO THE MUNICIPALITY, IT WAS

                    FORWARD THINKING AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO DO ANY IMMEDIATE CHANGES TO

                    THEIR LOCAL LAWS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, I NOTE THAT THE LAW SAYS THAT

                    THESE PLANS HAVE TO CONSIDER ALL OF THESE:  SOLAR, WIND, WIND TURBINES,

                    HYDROELECTRIC, FARM WASTE, AS CONDITIONS PERMIT.  WHAT IS MEANT BY THAT

                    PHRASE, AS CONDITIONS PERMIT?  DOES THAT MEAN IF THERE'S ENOUGH WIND

                    VOLUME THEY MUST CONSIDER THE -- INSTALLING WIND TURBINES WITHIN THE

                    TOWN IF IT MEETS --

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, I WOULD ARGUE THAT WIND --

                                 MR. GOODELL:  -- (INAUDIBLE) (CROSS-TALK) BENEFIT

                    NEARBY FARMS THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT FARM WASTE?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SO THE -- CERTAINLY, WE HAVE ENOUGH

                    WIND ALL OVER THE STATE, BUT CONDITIONS PERMIT PROBABLY WOULD BE --

                    WOULD BE THOUGHT OF IN THOSE INSTANCES WHETHER THERE WAS ANY LAND TO

                    DO THAT.  I MEAN, CERTAINLY IN MY VILLAGE, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY

                    PLACE THAT YOU COULD ACTUALLY PUT A WIND TURBINE, IT'S SO BUILT UP, AND

                    YOU NEED SPACE.  SAME THING WITH A SOLAR FARM, YOU -- YOU KNOW, SOLAR

                    FARMS TAKE A LOT OF -- A LOT OF LAND.  SO WHILE YOU MAY BE ABLE TO PUT

                    SOLAR - REMEMBER, SOLAR WAS PART OF THE ORIGINAL LAW ALREADY - YOU

                    MIGHT BE ABLE TO PUT SOLAR ON A ROOFTOP, BUT YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO

                    PUT A SOLAR FARM IN YOUR COMMUNITY.  BUT SOLAR WAS IN THE LAW ALREADY,

                                         14



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    AND SO AS CONDITIONS PERMITTED, THEY COULD TAKE SOLAR AND NOW THESE

                    OTHER TYPES OF ALTERNATIVES INTO CONSIDERATION WHILE THEY'RE PLANNING.

                                 YOU KNOW, FOR -- FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, FARM WASTE

                    WOULD -- I -- WE DON'T HAVE MANY FARMS IN -- IN -- IN LOWER WESTCHESTER

                    COUNTY.  I DON'T KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WE COULD PROBABLY BUY FARM

                    WASTE, YOU KNOW, FROM, YOU KNOW, FROM SOME OF THE COMMUNITIES OR,

                    YOU KNOW, ASK FOR IT TO BE TRANSPORTED DOWN, BUT IT WOULDN'T -- YOU

                    KNOW, CONDITIONS DON'T PERMIT US TO REALLY CONSIDER THAT.  I WOULD

                    IMAGINE IN YOUR COMMUNITY IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT TYPES OF ALTERNATIVES

                    THAT MIGHT MAKE SENSE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. PAULIN.

                                 ON THE -- ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S DESIRE TO

                    PROMOTE RENEWABLE ENERGY AND I THINK THAT IS CERTAINLY A LAUDABLE GOAL.

                    BUT I ALSO RESPECT, A GREAT DEAL, THE WISDOM AND THOUGHTFULNESS OF OUR

                    LOCAL TOWN AND VILLAGE BOARDS AND THEIR PLANNING BOARDS AND THEIR

                    COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING.  AND AS MUCH AS WE LIKE TO SUPPORT GREEN

                    ENERGY, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT SOME GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS ARE SIMPLY

                    INCONSISTENT WITH THE LOCAL DESIRE TO DEVELOP TOWNS IN A CERTAIN WAY TO

                    BENEFIT LOCAL RESIDENTS AND TO PROTECT THEM FROM INCONSISTENT

                    DEVELOPMENT.  AND FOR DECADES WE'VE RECOGNIZED THAT THE ROLE OF LOCAL

                    ZONING IS TO PROVIDE A THOUGHTFUL DEVELOPMENT BLUEPRINT FOR EVERYONE'S

                    BENEFIT; TO PREVENT, FOR EXAMPLE A VERY DISRUPTIVE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT

                                         15



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL AREA.

                                 THE SPONSOR, TO HER CREDIT AND I APPRECIATE IT, HAS

                    MADE IT CLEAR THAT THIS LEGISLATION WOULD NOT APPLY RETROACTIVELY, AND I

                    THINK THAT'S A VERY POSITIVE ADDITION.  BUT THERE'S NO DOUBT IT WOULD

                    APPLY PROSPECTIVELY.  AND THE TITLE STARTS RIGHT OUT, IN RELATION TO

                    REQUIRING LOCAL BUILDING AND PLANNING REGULATIONS TO ACCOMMODATE

                    HYDROPOWER, WIND TURBINES, SOLAR ARRAYS, FARM WASTE, ELECTRIC

                    GENERATION AND OTHER TYPES OF GREEN ENERGY.  AND MANY OF THOSE TYPES

                    OF GREEN ENERGY ARE SIMPLY INCOMPATIBLE WITH LOCAL ZONING.  SO I DON'T

                    THINK IT'S AS APPROPRIATE FOR US AS A LEGISLATURE TO OVERRIDE THE

                    THOUGHTFUL, KNOWLEDGEABLE DISCRETION OF LOCAL PLANNING AND ZONING

                    OFFICERS TO MANDATE THAT THEY CONSIDER AND MAKE PROVISION FOR, AS FAR

                    AS PRACTICAL, GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS THAT COULD BE VERY INCOMPATIBLE

                    WITH THEIR OVERALL OBJECTIVES OF PROTECTING THE EXISTING RESIDENTS AND

                    PROVIDING FOR AN ORDERLY DEVELOPMENT OF THEIR TOWNS.  IN RECOGNITION OF

                    THAT RESPECT FOR LOCAL OFFICIALS AND THEIR ROLE, I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST

                    THIS AND RECOMMEND THE SAME FOR MY COLLEAGUES.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. TAGUE.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD THE

                    SPONSOR KINDLY YIELD FOR A QUICK QUESTION?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. PAULIN --

                                 MS. PAULIN:  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  -- WILL YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.

                                         16



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. TAGUE:  I HAVE A CONCERN.  YOU MENTIONED THE

                    TERM FARM WASTE.  AND WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU REFERRING TO WITH THE TERM

                    OF FARM WASTE?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  NOT BEING A FARMER, I CANNOT TELL YOU

                    EXACTLY WHAT GOES INTO FARM WASTE, I CAN JUST TELL YOU THAT IT'S -- IT'S AN

                    ACCEPTED DEFINITION BY THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNITY AS A TYPE OF -- OF

                    WASTE THAT IS CONSIDERED APPROPRIATE FOR ACCOMMODATION IN A -- IN A

                    COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RENEWABLES.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  SO WE -- COULD WE BE TALKING ABOUT

                    MANURE, OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT VEGETABLE WASTE OR -- IS THAT WHAT THIS

                    IS REFERRING TO?  I'M JUST TRYING TO GET MY HANDS AROUND EXACTLY WHAT IS

                    MEANT BY FARM WASTE.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, IT'S SPECIFICALLY FARM WASTE

                    ELECTRIC GENERATING EQUIPMENT.  SO THERE'S ALREADY AN ELECTRIC GENERATOR

                    THAT USES THIS WASTE TO PRODUCE -- THAT USES TO PRODUCE ELECTRICITY FOR

                    THAT FARM, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.  SO

                    WHETHER IT -- YOU KNOW, WHAT GOES INTO IT EXACTLY I'M NOT SURE, I JUST

                    KNOW THAT IT'S AN ACCEPTED DEFINITION, IT'S DIGESTERS AND IT'S MANURE

                    MOSTLY, I UNDERSTAND.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  OKAY.  WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I

                    -- I APPRECIATE YOUR WORK ON THIS BILL.  OF COURSE I WON'T BE SUPPORTING

                    IT, BUT...

                                 ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  LISTEN, AS MY COLLEAGUE HAD JUST

                                         17



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    MENTIONED, THIS -- THIS BILL IS OUT OF CHARACTER AND INCONSISTENT WITH

                    MANY LOCAL RURAL COMMUNITIES, THEIR PLANS.  YOU KNOW, IT ALSO COULD

                    OFFER DANGER TO PRODUCTIVE, TILLABLE FARMLAND.  THIS TO ME IS JUST

                    ANOTHER MANDATE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT.  LOCAL GOVERNMENT ARE THE ONES

                    THAT KNOW THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITIES BEST AND WE SHOULD LEAVE THIS --

                    THESE DECISIONS UP TO THEM.  THAT'S WHY THEY PUT THE ZONING AND

                    COMMUNITY PLANS INTO PLACE, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEIR COMMUNITIES

                    BEST.  THEY DON'T NEED ANY OF US FROM ALBANY TELLING US HOW WE SHOULD

                    PLAN FOR THE FUTURE IN OUR COMMUNITIES.  THIS, AGAIN, IS A

                    ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL TYPE OF LEGISLATION THAT MAY WORK IN MANHATTAN OR MAY

                    WORK IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK IN SCHOHARIE,

                    GREENE, DELAWARE OR OTSEGO, ULSTER OR ALBANY COUNTY, THE AREAS THAT I

                    SERVE.

                                 SO I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST THIS BILL.  AGAIN, THIS IS A

                    MANDATE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, PEOPLE THAT KNOW THEIR COMMUNITIES

                    BEST, AND THESE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT WE SHOULD STAY OUT OF.  LET

                    LOCAL GOVERNMENTS MAKE THESE DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES.  FOR THOSE

                    REASONS, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I URGE ALL,

                    ESPECIALLY MY RURAL, UPSTATE COLLEAGUES, TO VOTE NO ON THIS LEGISLATION.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.

                                 MR. -- MS. BYRNES.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  CAN I BE

                    HEARD ON THE BILL, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                         18



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MS. BYRNES:  WITH ALL DEEPEST RESPECT TO THE

                    SPONSOR, THIS IS JUST ANOTHER BILL THAT IS ERODING HOME RULE, LOCAL RULE IN

                    OUR MUNICIPALITIES.  IT IS A CONTINUATION ON OF THE OTHER RULES AND

                    REGULATIONS AND BILLS THAT HAVE BEEN GONE BEFORE IT AND IT IS JUST

                    UNCONSCIONABLE THAT WE CONTINUE TO TAKE POWER AND AUTHORITY AWAY

                    FROM OUR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES, OUR TOWNS AND OUR VILLAGES.  THIS ONE

                    DOESN'T AFFECT IT, BUT OUR COUNTIES, AS WELL, AND I, AS A RESULT, I

                    ABSOLUTELY CANNOT VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL.  I WILL BE VOTING NO.  THANK

                    YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. ANGELINO.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  WITH THE PASSAGE OF A-443, THIS IS

                    ANOTHER ATTACK ON HOME RULE AND IT CONTINUES WHAT MANY OF MY

                    CONSTITUENTS FEEL IS THE FURTHER COLONIZATION OF UPSTATE NEW YORK.

                    THIS IS GOING TO IMPACT OUR MOST RURAL TOWNSHIPS WHERE THEY CAN'T

                    AFFORD ANY LITIGATION WITH A LARGE ENERGY COMPANY.  MANY OF THESE

                    TOWNSHIPS ONLY EMPLOY THREE PEOPLE, USUALLY IN A HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT,

                    AND EVERYONE ELSE SERVES AS VOLUNTEER STATUS.  THIS IS GOING TO -- THIS

                    HAS THE POTENTIAL TO LEAD TO MANY COSTLY LAWSUITS AND LITIGATION AND I

                    CAN'T SUPPORT THIS AND I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE THIS IN THE NEGATIVE

                    WITH ME.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. SALKA.

                                         19



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. SALKA:  YEAH, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. SALKA:  THANK YOU, SIR.  AS BEING -- HAVING

                    BEEN A TOWN SUPERVISOR IN A RURAL, UPSTATE COMMUNITY FOR 11 YEARS,

                    ONE OF THE MOST USEFUL TOOLS THAT WE HAD TO REPRESENT THE BEST INTERESTS

                    OF OUR LOCAL CITIZENS, OUR LOCAL RESIDENTS, WAS THE POWER OF LOCAL LAW.

                    WHAT THIS WILL DO IS EBB AWAY AT THE OPTIONS THAT WE HAD TO BE ABLE TO

                    EXERCISE UNDER LOCAL LAW.  IT EBBS AWAY AT THE INDEPENDENCE THAT OUR

                    SMALL RURAL COMMUNITIES HAVE, AND I ECHO THE SENTIMENTS OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES FROM UPSTATE THAT THIS IS NOT A GOOD BILL FOR OUR UPSTATE

                    COMMUNITIES.  WE REALIZE THE NEED FOR ENERGY IN THE DOWNSTATE AREA,

                    BUT IT SHOULD NOT BE AT THE SACRIFICE AND THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR OUR

                    UPSTATE COMMUNITIES.  I'M SURE WE CAN WORK TOGETHER ON THIS AND I

                    APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S INTENT, BUT AS FAR AS WHAT IT WILL BE TO THE

                    ADVANTAGE OF OUR UPSTATE COMMUNITIES, IT DEFINITELY WILL NOT SERVE US

                    WELL.  SO IN THAT RESPECT, MR. SPEAKER, I'LL BE VOTING NO ON THIS BILL AND

                    I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MS. GIGLIO.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  YES.  HAVING BEEN AN ELECTED OFFICIAL

                    FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS IN A LOCAL TOWN, TOWN OF RIVERHEAD, WHERE OUR

                    FARMLAND AND OUR INDUSTRIAL LAND HAS BEEN BOUGHT UP AND SOLAR PANELS

                                         20



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    AND SOLAR ARRAYS ARE BEING PLANNED ON OVER 600 ACRES, THOSE ARE NOT

                    JOBS THAT ARE GOING TO BE HAPPENING BECAUSE OF THE INDUSTRIAL

                    DEVELOPMENT TURNING INTO SOLAR ARRAYS AND RENEWABLE ENERGIES.  I THINK

                    THAT A SITING BOARD THAT THE GOVERNOR PUT IN PLACE THAT USURPS LOCAL

                    AUTHORITY IS A DISGRACE.  LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO

                    DECIDE AND DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE ENOUGH SATURATION AND

                    WHETHER THEY'RE CARRYING THE WHOLE LOAD FOR THE WHOLE EAST END OF

                    LONG ISLAND WHICH RIGHT NOW, A TOWN IN MY DISTRICT IS.

                                 SO I COMPLETELY OBJECT TO THIS RULE, IT SHOULD NOT BE A

                    REQUIREMENT FOR THE PLANNING DEPARTMENTS AND BUILDING DEPARTMENTS TO

                    JUST LOOK THE OTHER WAY WHEN IT'S OVERSATURATED WITH RENEWABLE ENERGY

                    PROJECTS.  SO I WILL BE VOTING NO ON THE BILL AND I ENCOURAGE MY

                    COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.  WE NEED TO KEEP OUR FARMLANDS BEING

                    FARMED AND KEEP OUR INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES FOR JOB CREATION.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. PAULIN.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  JUST A

                    COUPLE OF POINTS ON THE BILL.  WHEN I WAS A LOCAL VILLAGE TRUSTEE AND WE

                    EMBARKED ON A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH IS REALLY THAT SECTION OF THE

                    LAW THAT THIS IS AMENDING, I WAS NOT AN EXPERT ON RENEWABLE ENERGY,

                    NOR WAS I AN EXPERT ON SOLAR OR ANY OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT THIS

                    PARAGRAPH IN THE LAW REQUIRED US TO LOOK AT.  FOR EXAMPLE, TO FACILITATE

                    THE PRACTICE OF FORESTRY, TO FACILITATE THE ADEQUATE PROVISION OF

                    TRANSPORTATION, WATER, SEWAGE, SCHOOLS, ET CETERA.  WE DON'T HAVE A

                    FOREST IN SCARSDALE, BUT THE LAW DID REQUIRE THE CONSULTANT THAT WE HIRED

                                         21



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    TO HELP US WITH THE MASTER PLAN OR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO LOOK AT

                    THOSE FACTORS.  AND THOSE CONSULTANTS CAME BACK AND SAID, YOU KNOW

                    WHAT?  YOU DO NOT HAVE A FOREST IN SCARSDALE SO, THEREFORE, WE WILL NOT

                    PUT ANY ASPECT OF THAT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.  WE MAY PUT A

                    SENTENCE THAT SAYS 'YOU DO NOT HAVE A FOREST.'  AND REALLY, THAT'S THE

                    SECTION THAT WE'RE AMENDING.

                                 SO WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE REAL PRACTICAL WORLD

                    IS THAT WHEN THESE -- WHEN A CONSULTANT IS HIRED FOR A FUTURE

                    COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THAT CONSULTANT WILL SAY TO THE COMMUNITY, WE

                    NEED TO TAKE -- WE NEED TO LOOK AT THESE THINGS, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT

                    SCARSDALE?  YOU DON'T HAVE FARMS SO, THEREFORE, WE MAY PUT A SENTENCE

                    IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT WE LOOKED AT THIS AND WE REALIZED THAT

                    YOU DO NOT HAVE A FARM OR DIGESTER IN YOUR COMMUNITY, NOR WILL YOU

                    EVER BE ABLE TO BECAUSE OF THE SHORTAGE OF LAND, BECAUSE SOME OF THE

                    OTHER PROVISIONS THAT ARE REQUIRED IS TO -- TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S

                    ADEQUATE LIGHT AND AIR, TO PREVENT OVERCROWDING OF LAND, ET CETERA.

                                 SO A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS A BALANCE, AND ALL WE'RE

                    SAYING IS SOLAR WAS THE ALTERNATIVE ENERGY AT THE TIME THAT PEOPLE WERE

                    THINKING ABOUT, AND NOW THERE ARE MORE.  AND NOW THERE ARE MORE

                    THINGS THAT LOCAL COMMUNITIES, WHETHER THEY'RE UPSTATE OR DOWNSTATE

                    OR IN THE MIDDLE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT WHEN THEY DEVELOP A

                    COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.  WE MADE IT SPECIFICALLY APPARENT THAT THEY DO

                    NOT HAVE TO AMEND THEIR LAWS IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE THINGS THAT

                    DON'T MAKE SENSE, BUT THEY WILL HAVE TO JUST TAKE THEM INTO

                    CONSIDERATION.  AND AS TIMES CHANGE, PERHAPS AS LAND USE CHANGES,

                                         22



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    THEY WILL HAVE TO THEN LOOK AT THAT.  I DON'T THINK THERE'LL EVER BE AN

                    OCEAN NEAR ALBANY, NOR WILL THERE BE AN OCEAN NEAR WESTCHESTER

                    COUNTY.  SO OCEAN THERMAL IS NOT LIKELY TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN

                    ACCOMMODATE, BUT IT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT THE CONSULTANT WILL HAVE

                    ON THEIR LIST.  AND SO WHEN THEY ARE LOOKING AT LONG ISLAND, FOR

                    EXAMPLE, OCEAN THERMAL MIGHT MAKE A LOT MORE SENSE.

                                 SO WITH THAT, THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE BILL.  IT'S BEEN

                    AROUND FOR A VERY LONG TIME, I'M VERY PLEASED THAT WE ARE FINALLY GOING

                    TO BE PASSING IT IN BOTH HOUSES BECAUSE I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT STEP

                    FORWARD TO CREATE -- TO CREATE MORE RENEWABLE TYPE OF ENERGY GOING

                    FORWARD.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 391.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO

                    WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS MANDATE, BUT THOSE WHO

                    SUPPORT IT SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE SO THAT WE CAN

                    PROPERLY RECORD THEIR VOTE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                         23



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF

                    THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  THOSE DESIRING TO BE AN EXCEPTION SHOULD FEEL

                    FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND YOUR VOTE WILL BE

                    PROPERLY RECORDED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING COLLEAGUES OF MINE SUPPORTING THIS LEGISLATION:  MR. BROWN,

                    MR. BYRNE, MR. DESTEFANO, MR. DURSO, MR. GANDOLFO, AND MR. LAWLER

                    -- MICHAEL LAWLER.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  IF YOU COULD RECORD OUR COLLEAGUES MRS. GUNTHER AND MR.

                    SANTABARBARA IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED ON THIS FIRST

                    VOTE OF THE DAY.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 20, CALENDAR NO. 261, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S01199, CALENDAR NO.

                                         24



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    261, SENATOR GIANARIS (CRUZ, GALEF, GRIFFIN--A05838).  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING AT LEAST ONE

                    COMMISSIONER OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO HAVE EXPERIENCE

                    IN UTILITY CONSUMER ADVOCACY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. CRUZ.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ASSEMBLY BILL

                    NO. 5832 AMENDS THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW IN RELATION TO REQUIRING AT

                    LEAST ONE COMMISSIONER OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO HAVE THE

                    EXPERIENCE IN UTILITY CONSUMER ADVOCACY.  BY REQUIRING THIS, THE BILL

                    WILL HELP RESTORE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THAT BODY IN ENSURING THAT PUBLIC

                    UTILITIES OPERATE IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE PUBLIC.  OTHER THAN

                    PROVISIONS FOR POLITICAL PARTY BALLOTS, THERE ARE CURRENTLY NO STATUTORY

                    STANDARDS FOR APPOINTMENTS TO THE PSC.  THIS STANDS IN MARKED

                    CONTRAST TO STATUTES IN MANY OTHER STATES, WHICH PROVIDE VARIOUS

                    MECHANISMS FOR DETERMINING QUALIFICATIONS FOR UTILITY REGULATORS,

                    INCLUDING REQUIREMENTS IN TWO OF OUR NEIGHBORING STATES THAT AT LEAST

                    ONE COMMISSIONER MUST HAVE EXPERIENCE IN CONSUMER PROTECTION AND

                    ADVOCACY.  THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR

                    OVERSEEING THE OPERATIONS OF PUBLIC UTILITIES, PROVIDERS OF ENERGY,

                    TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND CABLE SERVICES THAT PROVIDE ESSENTIAL SERVICES

                    THROUGHOUT THE -- THROUGH THE USE OF PUBLIC RIGHTS OF WAY AND SIMILAR

                    COMMON RESOURCES.

                                 IN RECENT YEARS, MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THE PSC HAS

                    STRAYED FROM ITS CORE MISSION OF ENSURING CONSUMERS RECEIVE ADEQUATE

                                         25



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    SERVICE AT REASONABLE RATES.  CURRENTLY, ALL FOUR COMMISSIONERS ARE

                    PRO-INDUSTRY AND ONE SEAT IS OPEN.  TO RECTIFY THIS SITUATION, THIS

                    LEGISLATION WOULD REQUIRE THAT AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE PSC

                    COMMISSIONERS HAVE EXPERIENCE IN ADVOCATING FOR THE INTEREST OF

                    UTILITY CONSUMERS, INCLUDING OUR SENIORS AND OTHER VULNERABLE

                    POPULATIONS.  THIS PROVISION IS ALREADY ENFORCED IN THE STATE OF

                    CONNECTICUT, MASS -- AND MASSACHUSETTS HAD SIMILAR REQUIREMENTS.

                    PLACING A DEDICATED CONSUMER PROTECTIVE -- PROTECT -- REPRESENTATIVE ON

                    THE PSC WILL HELP ENSURE THAT THE INTERESTS OF WORKING FAMILIES, SMALL

                    BUSINESSES, AND OTHER RATEPAYERS ARE NOT SUBORDINATE TO THE INTERESTS OF

                    PUBLIC UTILITIES AND OTHER COMMERCIAL INTERESTS THAT ARE ALREADY WELL

                    REPRESENTED IN THE PSC PROCEEDINGS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ --

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  -- WILL YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. CRUZ YIELDS, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ.  EARLIER THIS

                    WEEK, WE PASSED A BILL REQUIRING EVERY MEMBER TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    COMMISSION TO HAVE CERTAIN EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS, WHETHER AS AN

                    ENGINEER OR -- OR WHATEVER.  WOULD ALL THOSE EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS

                    ALSO APPLY TO THIS REPRESENTATIVE?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THOSE ARE TWO SEPARATE BILLS.  SO IF THE

                                         26



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    ONE THAT YOU'RE MENTIONING, IN FACT, BECOMES A LAW AND GETS SIGNED,

                    YES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND AREN'T ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE

                    PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION CHARGED WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY OF

                    WORKING IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE PUBLIC?  ISN'T THAT THE RESPONSIBILITY

                    FOR EVERY ONE OF THEM?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, ARGUABLY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THEIR

                    BIOS AND THEIR EXPERIENCE, WHILE THEY MAY BE CHARGED WITH THAT, ONE

                    CAN ASSUME NOT ONLY BASED ON THE STATISTICS OF HOW LONG IT'S TAKEN TO

                    MAKE CERTAIN FINDINGS AND DECISIONS THAT THEY, IN FACT, AREN'T

                    NECESSARILY ALL WORKING TOWARD THE BETTERMENT OF THE PUBLIC OR IN THE

                    INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND ARE THERE ANY SPECIFIC PSC

                    RULINGS THAT YOU FIND OBJECTIONABLE THAT YOU THOUGHT WERE NOT IN THE

                    BEST INTERESTS OF THE PUBLIC?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YEAH -- WELL, NOT NECESSARILY THE

                    DECISIONS, BUT THE LENGTH AND HOW -- THAT IT'S TAKEN TO MAKE SOME --

                    SOME OF THOSE DECISIONS.  IF YOU GIVE ME ONE SECOND I HAVE SOME

                    STATISTICS HERE.  SO IN MARCH OF 2020 THERE WERE OVER 1,200 COMPLAINTS

                    FILED AT THE PSC BY CONSUMERS HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE UTILITIES.  AND

                    AMONG THOSE, ABOUT 507 WERE FROM NEW YORK CITY ALONG -- ALONE AND

                    RESOLVING THE PROBLEM TOOK LONGER THAN 14 DAYS, WHICH, IN THE GRAND

                    SCHEME OF THINGS, 14 DAYS MAY NOT SEEM LIKE A LOT, BUT FOR SOMEONE

                    WHO HAS A PROBLEM WITH A LIFESAFE UTILITY, IT CAN BE.  SPECTRUM CABLE

                    HAS SEEN AND CONTINUES TO SEE SLOWER CONSUMER RESPONSES.  ALSO IN

                                         27



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    JANUARY OF 2021 ALONE, THE BILLING COMPLAINTS THAT WERE INVESTIGATED

                    BY THE PSC YIELDED ABOUT FOUR -- $644,000 IN REFUNDS TO APPROXIMATELY

                    83 CONSUMERS.

                                 AND AGAIN, I THINK IT'S ONLY FAIR THAT IF WE ARE GOING TO

                    HAVE A REGULATORY BODY THAT LOOKS AT -- THAT IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT THE

                    BEST INTEREST OF THE CONSUMER, THAT IS SUPPOSED TO ALSO TAKE INTO

                    ACCOUNT THE NEEDS OF THESE BUSINESSES, THAT WE HAVE SOMEONE THAT

                    REPRESENTS BOTH SIDES.  AND WHEN YOU HAVE MORE MEMBERS ON ONE OVER

                    THE OTHER, I -- I JUST -- I CAN'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE OBJECTION THAT

                    SOME FOLKS WOULD HAVE WHEN YOU HAVE FIVE SEATS, FOUR OF THEM ARE

                    PRO-BUSINESS AND ONE IS PRO-CONSUMER, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO

                    DO HERE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NOW, ALL -- HOW ARE THE CURRENT

                    REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION SELECTED?  AREN'T

                    THEY ALL SELECTED BY THE GOVERNOR?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND IF SO, IS IT YOUR POSITION, THEN,

                    THAT THE GOVERNOR IS NOT SELECTING A REPRESENTATIVE GROUP OF PEOPLE AND

                    THAT WE NEED TO CURB THE GOVERNOR'S POWER BY REQUIRING HIM TO APPOINT

                    A CONSUMER ADVOCATE?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WHILE I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO

                    DO AND TRYING TO GET ME TO SAY, MY POSITION IS THAT OUR BILL IS TRYING TO

                    LOOK AFTER THE INTERESTS OF THE CONSUMERS.  IT IS NOT MY POSITION AT THIS

                    MOMENT TO GO WITH THE LINE THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET ME TO GO WITH, BUT

                    I APPRECIATE IT.

                                         28



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I APOLOGIZE, BUT I THOUGHT YOU JUST

                    SAID THAT-- THAT ALL THE OTHER APPOINTEES OF THE GOVERNOR WERE

                    PRO-BUSINESS.  AND I -- I HAVE TO SAY, I -- I DON'T SHARE THAT PERSPECTIVE,

                    I -- I'VE ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION WAS VERY

                    REPRESENTATIVE AND VERY BALANCED.  SO I WAS JUST QUESTIONING WHY YOU

                    COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE GOVERNOR'S ONLY BEEN APPOINTING

                    PRO-BUSINESS REPRESENTATIVES TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT THE -- THE EXPERIENCE

                    AND THE BIOS OF THE INDIVIDUAL FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN APPOINTED, THEY

                    DON'T STRIKE ME AS SOMEONE WHO WAS A FORMER VP FOR VERIZON,

                    SOMEONE WHO IS A FORMER COLLEAGUE OF -- OF US ON -- IN THE REPUBLICAN

                    PARTY, SOMEONE WHO IS A VICE PRESIDENT OF THE -- OR TRANSPORTATION

                    PIPELINE.  SO I'M LISTENING TO -- TO WHAT CONSUMERS ARE SAYING, I'M

                    LOOKING AT THE BIOS AND I'M LOOKING AT HOW LONG IT'S TAKEN TO MAKE

                    CERTAIN DECISIONS ON BEHALF OF CONSUMERS.  AND THE ONLY CONCLUSION I

                    CAN COME UP WITH IS THAT WE ARE IN ABSOLUTE NEED OF HAVING SOMEONE

                    WHO'S COMPLETE -- A COMPLETE REPRESENTATION OF CONSUMERS.  AND HERE

                    WE HAVE FOLKS WHO ARE -- WHO SEEM TO BE MORE PRO-BUSINESS, WHOSE

                    EXPERIENCE IS IN BUSINESS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AM I CORRECT THAT ALL THESE

                    APPOINTMENTS REQUIRE APPROVAL BY THE SENATE?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YOU ARE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                                         29



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  FIRST, I -- I APPRECIATE THE -- THE

                    ANSWERS FROM MS. CRUZ.  RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE WE

                    HAVE A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR WHO APPOINTS ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE

                    PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION, SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF MORE THAN 50

                    PERCENT MAJORITY, NEARLY TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY IN THE

                    DEMOCRATIC-CONTROLLED SENATE; YET, WE'RE TOLD THAT THE GOVERNOR'S

                    APPOINTMENTS TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE

                    OF THE PEOPLE.  AND EVEN THOUGH I'M UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE CURRENT

                    PROCESS, WHICH MAY BE DOMINATED BY ONE POLITICAL PARTY, I

                    NEVERTHELESS HAVE ALWAYS RESPECTED THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION

                    FOR THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERTISE.

                                 I AM CONCERNED THAT WE ARE GOING DOWN THE ROAD OF

                    TAKING BROAD APPOINTMENTS THAT REQUIRE LEGISLATIVE APPROVAL IN THE

                    SENATE AND STARTING TO CARVE UP THE MEMBERSHIP INTO SPECIAL INTEREST

                    GROUPS, IF YOU WILL.  THE OBJECTIVE OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION

                    MEMBERSHIP WAS TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO -- AND I -- I'M SURE THE COLLEAGUE

                    -- MY COLLEAGUE AGREES WITH THIS, THE PURPOSE WAS TO HAVE

                    REPRESENTATIVES WHO DID NOT HAVE A PARTICULAR AXE TO GRIND, IF YOU WILL;

                    YET, THIS LEGISLATION SAYS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET ON AS A CONSUMER

                    ADVOCATE IS IF YOU HAVE A HISTORY OF OPPOSING UTILITY COMPANIES.  I DON'T

                    THINK WE SHOULD PUT A REQUIREMENT ON ANY APPOINTMENT THAT YOU WALK

                    INTO THE JOB WITH A HISTORY OF BEING PRO-UTILITY COMPANY OR A HISTORY OF

                    BEING ANTI-UTILITY COMPANY, IF YOU WILL, OR -- OR PRO-CONSUMER.  I -- I

                    THINK WE WANT TO LOOK FOR THE PEOPLE THAT CAN MEET THIS FIDUCIARY

                                         30



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    OBLIGATION IN THE BEST WAY TO PROTECT OUR UTILITY SYSTEM AND ENSURE THAT

                    WE ARE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.  AND I THINK THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    COMMISSION HAS A VERY HIGH LEVEL OF RESPECT BECAUSE THEY HAVE

                    BALANCED THOSE ISSUES WELL IN THE PAST.

                                 AND SO I FIND MYSELF RELUCTANTLY AGREEING WITH THE

                    AUTHORITY OF OUR GOVERNOR TO SELECT THE PEOPLE HE THINKS ARE MOST

                    QUALIFIED IN THE BROADEST WAY, SUBJECT TO CONFIRMATION BY THE SENATE.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 1199.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  ALTHOUGH I WILL BE

                    VOTING AGAINST THIS LEGISLATION, I SUSPECT THAT MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES IN

                    THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS WILL SUPPORT THAT.  IT IS ALWAYS AN INTERESTING

                    CHALLENGE TO BALANCE THE NEEDS OF CONSUMERS WITH THE NEEDS OF

                    PROVIDERS.  I THINK THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION IS DOING A GOOD JOB

                    AND I DON'T WANT IT SPLIT UP INTO SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS, BUT I RECOGNIZE

                    THAT MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES MIGHT WANT TO HAVE A DESIGNATED CONSUMER

                                         31



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    REPRESENTATIVE AS ONE OF THE FIVE PEOPLE.  SO IT'S A FAST ROLL CALL, WHICH

                    MEANS THAT MY COLLEAGUES WILL BE RECORDED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE UNLESS

                    THEY CALL AND SAY OTHERWISE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'M GOING TO BE

                    SUPPORTING THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN ON LONG

                    ISLAND OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, WHETHER IT WAS DEALING WITH PSEG WITH

                    THE STORMS LAST SUMMER OR SOMETHING THAT MANY OF US ARE FAMILIAR

                    WITH, NEW YORK AMERICAN WATER.  THE PSC HAS NOT BEEN THERE TO

                    FULLY ADVOCATE FOR THOSE RATEPAYERS AND I THINK WE NEED TO DO MORE TO

                    ENSURE THAT THAT ENTITY IS PRO-CONSUMER AND PROTECTING CONSUMERS FROM

                    -- FROM SOME OF OUR UTILITIES.

                                 YOU KNOW, THERE HAS BEEN THIS BILL BOUNCING AROUND

                    FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS HOW TO CREATE THIS OFFICE OF A CONSUMER ADVOCATE

                    WHICH -- WHICH UNFORTUNATELY, THE GOVERNOR HASN'T SEEN EYE TO EYE

                    WITH THE LEGISLATURE ON.  BUT WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO BE HAVING

                    CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS OR THAT BILL, SOMETHING TO HELP LEVEL THE PLAYING

                    FIELD TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PSC IS ACTING IN THE BEST INTEREST OF OUR -- OF

                    OUR CUSTOMERS.  SO I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD AND

                    CAST MY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. MONTESANO.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, ON

                                         32



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    THE -- TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  FIRST, THANKS TO THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL FOR

                    THIS VERY NECESSARY PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  AND TO ECHO THE COMMENTS OF

                    MY COLLEAGUE FROM NASSAU COUNTY WHO JUST SPOKE, MY SENTIMENTS ARE

                    EXACTLY THE SAME.  WE'VE SEEN SOME DISASTERS NOT ONLY IN NASSAU

                    COUNTY, BUT IN SUFFOLK COUNTY AND OTHER PLACES IN THE STATE.  BUT THIS

                    BIG ISSUE WE HAVE BACK HOME WITH NEW YORK AMERICAN WATER, THE

                    PSC, YOU KNOW, HAD A LOT OF ISSUES WITH THE RATE INCREASES AND THERE'S

                    NO ONE TO SPEAK THE MIND OF THE CONSUMERS WHEN THEY HAVE THESE

                    HEARINGS.  YOU HAVE NUMEROUS PEOPLE SHOW UP IN FAVOR OF THE UTILITIES

                    AND YOU'RE LUCKY IF YOU COULD GET ONE CONSUMER IN THERE, YOU KNOW, TO

                    OPPOSE.  IT'S A VERY BURDENSOME PROCEDURE FOR THE AVERAGE PROPERTY

                    OWNER OR -- OR RATEPAYER TO WALK INTO A PSC HEARING AND MAKE

                    THEMSELVES HEARD AND UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

                                 SO WHILE WE HAVE CONSUMER ADVOCATES FOR MANY OTHER

                    ISSUES, WE HAVE THEM ON A COUNTY LEVEL, WE HAVE THEM FOR ALL THE

                    REASONS, THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PLACES TO HAVE SOMEONE WITH

                    EXPERIENCE AS A CONSUMER ADVOCATE ON THERE.  SO THE GOVERNOR'S HAD

                    HIS ISSUES WITH THE LEGISLATURE OF, YOU KNOW, THE PSC IS HIS BABY, HE

                    DOES WHAT HE WANTS TO DO WITH IT, SO UNFORTUNATELY NOW HE'S PUT THE

                    LEGISLATURE IN A POSITION TO MANDATE THAT ONE OF HIS APPOINTEES HAS TO

                    HAVE A CERTAIN BACKGROUND IN CONSUMER ADVOCACY, AND THAT'S THE WAY

                    IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE.  SO IN SUPPORT OF THE BILL, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MONTESANO IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                         33



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. SALKA.

                                 MR. SALKA:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. SALKA:  THANK YOU, SIR.  I GUESS YOU HAVE TO

                    LOOK AT IT JUST BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT NEW YORK STATE HAS SOME OF THE

                    HIGHEST UTILITY RATES IN THE COUNTRY AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO THINK THERE IS

                    AT LEAST SOME CONNECTION BETWEEN THE REGULATORY AGENCY THAT OVERSEES

                    OUR UTILITIES AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A DIRECT OR INDIRECT CORRELATION

                    AS TO WHY WE ARE PAYING SOME OF THE HIGHEST RATES IN THE COUNTRY.  I -- I

                    COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON THIS BILL AND IF THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO

                    CREATE A BETTER REPRESENTATION FOR CONSUMERS ON ANY REGULATORY AGENCY

                    IN OUR STATE, IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT I WOULD ENDORSE

                    WHOLEHEARTEDLY.  AND AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR AND I WILL BE

                    VOTING UP ON THIS BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. SALKA EXPLAINING

                    THE BILL WILL VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THANKS SO MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS

                    IS REALLY A GOOD BILL.  THOSE OF US WHO LIVE ON LONG ISLAND, AS MY

                    COLLEAGUES HAVE -- FROM LONG ISLAND HAVE MENTIONED, HAVE HAD SOME

                    DIFFICULT ENCOUNTERS WITH THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OVER THE

                    COURSE OF THE LAST YEARS.  AND THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE ON THE HORIZON

                    THAT MANY IN MY PART OF THE WORLD ARE NOT AWARE OF, AND THAT HAS TO DO

                    WITH THE PSC ON MARCH 18TH ORDERING LIPA TO IMPROVE THE POWER

                    SYSTEM ON LONG ISLAND TO ACCOMMODATE NEW MEGAWATTS, MANY

                                         34



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    HUNDREDS OF MEGAWATTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE GENERATED IN TERMS OF

                    POWER BY OFFSHORE WIND.  NOW, THE $1.5 MILL -- I'M SORRY, $1.5 BILLION

                    WORTH OF IMPROVEMENTS HAS BEEN RULED BY PSC TO BE PAID BY THE

                    RATEPAYERS IN NASSAU, SUFFOLK, AND THE NEW YORK -- AND NEW YORK

                    CITY.  THAT'S GOING TO INCREASE OUR BILLS SUBSTANTIALLY.  THIS IS JUST

                    SOMETHING ON THE HORIZON.  I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN

                    ACTUAL CITIZEN, AN ACTUAL CONSUMER, SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS AND

                    APPRECIATES THE BOTTOM LINE EFFECT OF WHAT THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    COMISSION DOES ON THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION.  I WITHDRAW MY

                    REQUEST AND I VERY -- AND I'M VERY PLEASED TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE FOR

                    THIS BILL.  THANK YOU SO MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAVINE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. PALMESANO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YES, MR. SPEAKER, TO BRIEFLY

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  WHILE I UNDERSTAND THE INTENTION BEHIND THIS

                    LEGISLATION, I REALLY DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.  A

                    NUMBER OF REASONS WHY IS RIGHT NOW THIS LEGISLATURE COULD BE TAKING

                    ACTION TO -- TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE ITSELF.  WE COLLECT OVER $1-PLUS BILLION

                    A YEAR IN TAXES, FEES, AND ASSESSMENTS AS PART OF OUR ENERGY BILLS FOR OUR

                    CUSTOMERS.  THESE ARE GREEN PROJECTS.  YOU KNOW, A TEMPORARY 18-A

                    SURCHARGE.  WE TALKED ABOUT NET METERING, HOW IT SHIFTS COSTS TO

                    RATEPAYERS BECAUSE THEY REIMBURSE ALL THESE NET METERING FOR SOLAR

                    PROJECTS AND WIND PROJECTS AT THE RETAIL RATE AND THAT COST SHIFT FOR THE

                    TRANSMISSION AND DELIVERY, IT'S SHIFTED TO THE RATEPAYER.  THOSE ARE

                                         35



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    THINGS THAT ARE -- WOULD BE -- MAKE AN IMPACT TO HELP THE RATEPAYERS.

                    YOU COULD HAVE SOMEONE ON THE COMMISSION, BUT THESE MANDATES THAT

                    ARE BEING PLACED ON THEM, THE BIG MANDATE OF THEM ALL WHICH PEOPLE

                    DON'T REALIZE IT'S GOING TO HIT THEM YET, BUT IT'S GOING TO HIT THEM LIKE A

                    TON OF BRICKS IS THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CLCPA WHICH IS GOING TO

                    INCREASE COSTS DRAMATICALLY, THE ESTIMATED IS $6- TO $8 BILLION ANNUALLY

                    IN COST TO IMPLEMENT THE CLCPA.  TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO

                    RETROFIT AND CONVERT BUILDINGS AND HOMES.  THAT'S GOING TO HAVE A

                    SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON RATEPAYERS.

                                 SO WE CAN HAVE A CONSUMER ADVOCATE ON THERE, BUT IT'S

                    NOT GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE THIS LEGISLATURE AND THIS

                    GOVERNOR KEEP -- CONTINUE TO PLACE MANDATES ON THE TAXPAYERS, THE

                    RESIDENTS, AND THE BUSINESSES OF THIS STATE.  THAT'S WHY BUSINESSES ARE

                    LEAVING THE STATE AND THAT'S WHY MORE RESIDENTS ARE LEAVING THE STATE.

                    SO THAT'S MY REASONING.  WE CAN DO A LOT BETTER IF WE REALLY WANT TO

                    MAKE AN IMPACT.  THIS BILL IS NOT GOING TO MAKE THE IMPACT.  IT SOUNDS

                    GOOD, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE AN IMPACT TO REDUCE ANYONE'S

                    RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL UTILITY BILLS FOR OUR BUSINESSES, OUR FARMERS,

                    OUR SMALL BUSINESSES OR FAMILIES.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PALMESANO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. GRIFFIN.

                                 MS. GRIFFIN:  THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE, MR. SPEAKER.  I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS TO

                    THE FLOOR AND I AM PROUD TO COSPONSOR THIS BILL.  CLEARLY, THE PSC HAS

                                         36



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    NOT PUT THE CONSUMERS FIRST ON LONG ISLAND.  THIS LEGISLATION PUTS THE

                    CONSUMERS FIRST AND IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.  THIS LEGISLATION

                    WILL -- WILL BENEFIT THE CONSUMER AND ALSO TREAT THE RATEPAYER MORE

                    FAIRLY.  SO FOR THESE REASONS, I AM VERY, VERY PROUD TO VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GRIFFIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. TAGUE.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PROCEED.

                                 MR. TAGUE:  I JUST WANT TO FIRST OF ALL COMMEND THE

                    SPONSOR.  LONG TIME IN COMING FROM SOMEBODY THAT COMES FROM THE

                    AGRICULTURAL WORLD.  I HOPE THAT WITH THIS BILL BECOMES LAW THAT

                    SOMEONE FROM THE AGRICULTURE SECTOR PLAYS A PART WITH THESE RATES WITH

                    THE PSC.  HOWEVER, I DO AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE THAT SPOKE A MINUTE

                    OR SO AGO, THERE ARE MANY OTHER THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE.  BUT TODAY,

                    I THINK THIS BILL IS A GOOD START.  AND WITH THAT, MR. -- MR. SPEAKER, I

                    WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. TAGUE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. CRUZ TO CLOSE.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  MR. SPEAKER, THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THAT

                    OUR LEGISLATURE PROVIDES GUIDANCE IN HOW TO FORM ONE OF THESE BODIES.

                    WE ROUTINELY REQUIRE SEVERAL MEMBERS FROM THE SENATE BE APPOINTED,

                                         37



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    SEVERAL MEMBERS FROM THE ASSEMBLY, SOME FROM THE EXECUTIVE; THIS

                    ISN'T THE FIRST TIME.  AND THIS ISN'T ABOUT PUTTING SOMEONE WITH SPECIAL

                    INTERESTS ONTO THIS BODY.  THIS IS ABOUT PUTTING SOMEONE WITH THE

                    INTEREST OF THE CONSUMER IN MIND WHEN THEY'RE MAKING DECISIONS,

                    SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT OUR COLLEAGUES IN LONG ISLAND

                    DESCRIBED.  SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE NEEDS OF FARMERS, SOMEONE

                    WHO UNDERSTANDS THE NEEDS OF THE HOMEOWNERS, OF THE RENTERS, OF ALL OF

                    THE FOLKS WHO ARE FILING THE COMPLAINTS.  WHEN THEY GO IN FRONT OF THIS

                    BODY, THIS BODY'S EXPERIENCE IS SKEWED.  THERE IS NO ARGUMENT THAT IT IS

                    SKEWED TOWARD THE INTERESTS OF THE PRIVATE ENTITIES, OF THE BUSINESSES,

                    OF THE ELECTRIC COMPANIES, OF THE CABLE COMPANIES.  NO ONE HAS THE

                    CONSUMER IN MIND FIRST WHEN THEY'RE MAKING THESE DECISIONS.

                                 THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND I WILL SAY I DO

                    AGREE WE -- WITH MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUE, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE THAT

                    WE NEED TO BE DOING, AND WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO IT BECAUSE OUR

                    COMMUNITY, NEW YORKERS, CONSUMERS, DESERVE IT.  AND I WILL BE

                    VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I HOPE MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL JOIN

                    ME IN DOING THE SAME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I CERTAINLY WANT TO

                    JOIN MY COLLEAGUES IN THE CHAMBERS, AS WELL THOSE WHO ARE REMOTE,

                    THAT HAVE COMMENDED THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION.  THE PUBLIC

                                         38



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    SERVICE COMMISSION'S ROLE IS -- IT'S REALLY TWOFOLD.  IT'S GOVERNANCE AND

                    IT'S ABOUT BUSINESS, CLEARLY, BUT IT'S MORE IMPORTANTLY ABOUT THE

                    CONSUMER.  AND SO THE THOUGHT THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, SPENT THIS

                    AMOUNT OF TIME WITHOUT A CONSUMER PERSPECTIVE THERE IS A LITTLE

                    DISINGENUOUS AND I THINK IT'S TIME FOR US TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.

                    AND I CERTAINLY DO APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S PUTTING THIS BEFORE US AND I

                    WOULD HOPE THAT EVERYONE WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT FOLKS ARE USING

                    UTILITIES ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK ARE CONSUMERS, THEY ARE

                    RATEPAYERS AND THEY DESERVE TO BE HEARD AT THE TABLE ON A CONSISTENT

                    BASIS.  SO AGAIN, I APPLAUD THE SPONSOR AND LOOK FORWARD TO VOTING IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS ONE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL FOR EXCEPTIONS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING COLLEAGUES IN THE NEGATIVE:  MR. ANGELINO, MR. DIPIETRO, MR.

                    FITZPATRICK, MR. FRIEND, MR. GALLAHAN, MR. LAWLER, MR. NORRIS AND MR.

                    PALMESANO.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 20, CALENDAR NO. 267, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S01556, CALENDAR NO.

                    267, SENATOR PARKER (CAHILL--A06871).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC

                                         39



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO UTILITY MEMBERSHIP DUES USED FOR LOBBYING

                    ACTIVITIES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. CAHILL.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND

                    COLLEAGUES.  THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE BILL.  IT AMENDS THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    LAW TO CLOSE A LOOPHOLE THAT WOULD CURRENTLY ALLOW UTILITY COMPANIES

                    TO CHARGE THEIR CUSTOMERS FOR THE COST OF MEMBERSHIP THROUGH TRADE

                    ASSOCIATION DUES THROUGH OTHER ORGANIZATION INSTITUTION CORPORATIONS

                    AND OTHER ENTITIES THAT STILL ENGAGE IN LEGISLATIVE LOBBYING IN VIOLATION

                    OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PALMESANO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YES, MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. CAHILL, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  WITH PLEASURE.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. CAHILL YIELDS.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  -- MR. CAHILL.

                                 CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW, MR. CAHILL, UNDER NEW YORK

                    STATE LAW, UTILITIES ARE PROHIBITED FROM RECOVERING FOR COSTS ASSOCIATED

                    WITH LOBBYING ACTIVITY UNDER THE CURRENT LAW, CORRECT?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  UTILITIES ARE PROHIBITED FROM WHAT,

                    PHIL?  I COULDN'T CATCH THE END OF THAT.

                                         40



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  RIGHT NOW UNDER THE PUBLIC

                    SERVICE LAW 114-A, UTILITIES ARE PROHIBITED FROM RECOVERING THE COSTS

                    ASSOCIATED WITH LOBBYING ACTIVITY.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  IT'S CORRECT.  AND THIS BILL

                    SPECIFICALLY DEALS WITH TRADE ASSOCIATION AND MEMBERSHIPS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  YES.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  AND WITH THESE TRADE

                    ASSOCIATION MEMBERSHIPS, AREN'T THEIR BENEFITS DERIVED THROUGH THE

                    UTILITY AND ALSO THE RATEPAYERS AND CONSUMERS FROM SOME OF THESE

                    MEMBERSHIPS THEY PROVIDE --

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THERE -- THERE VERY WELL MAY BE.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE I KNOW THE

                    EDISON INSTITUTE, EDISON ELECTRIC INSTITUTE, THEY DO A LOT FOR THEIR --

                    THEIR PARTNERSHIP WITH THE UTILITIES THAT --

                                 MR. CAHILL:  DID YOU SAY THE EDISON ELECTRIC

                    INSTITUTE?

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  EDISON ELECTRIC INSTITUTE WITH

                    LIKE COMPLIANCE INDUSTRY AND TRAINING AND -- AND OTHER SOURCES, YOU

                    KNOW, THESE TRADE ASSOCIATIONS ARE ALLOWED TO USE UTILITIES, THEY SHARE

                    BEST PRACTICES INCLUDING OPERATION, ENVIRONMENTAL, CYBER SECURITY BEST

                    PRACTICES, LIKE WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT GIVEN THE RECENT HACKING OF

                    THE COLONIAL PIPELINE WHICH PROVIDES A MAJOR SOURCE OF ENERGY SUPPLY

                    TO THE EAST COAST.  OTHER -- OTHER BENEFITS FROM THIS IS BENCHMARKING

                    AND INFORMATION-SHARING, FACILITATION OF MUTUAL AID AND TO FOSTER STORE

                                         41



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    RESPONSE, THIS HAS ALL BEEN FOUND BY THE PSC TO HAVE AN OVERALL BENEFIT

                    TO THE CUSTOMERS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  I GUESS IN SOME INSTANCES THAT IS TRUE.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO THIS LEGISLATION WOULD ALSO

                    IMPACT ALL DUES PAID BY UTILITIES TO THESE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ENGAGE IN

                    ANY TYPE OF ADVOCACY, CORRECT?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO FOR EXAMPLE, THEY -- THESE

                    UTILITIES MIGHT BE INVOLVED IN LOCAL CHAMBERS OF COMMERCES, THEY

                    MIGHT BE INVOLVED WITH SUPPORTING THE RED CROSS OR THE YMCA OR

                    HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, WHO DO ADVOCATE FOR ISSUES --

                                 MR. CAHILL:  AND THAT'S PERFECTLY, PHIL -- MR.

                    SPEAKER, THEY ARE PERFECTLY ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE IN THOSE

                    ORGANIZATIONS.  THEY CAN PAY 20 TIMES WHAT THEY'RE PAYING RIGHT NOW IF

                    THEY CHOOSE.  THEY CAN DO ANYTHING THEY WANT WITH THOSE ORGANIZATIONS

                    EXCEPT FOR ONE THING UNDER THIS LAW, UNDER THE EXISTING LAW, THEY CAN'T

                    USE RATEPAYERS' MONEY TO LOBBY FOR ANYTHING.  NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT

                    THE RED CROSS, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE IN

                    YOUR HOMETOWN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGISLATIVE LOBBYING AND THAT'S

                    WHAT IS ALREADY PROHIBITED.  AND OUR UTILITIES HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF

                    A LOOPHOLE IN THE LAW TO -- TO USE TRADE ASSOCIATION DUES TO DO THAT

                    LOBBYING FOR THEM.  AND NOT JUST THEIR LOBBYING, BUT THEY'VE USED TRADE

                    ASSOCIATION DUES TO CREATE THE ECHO CHAMBER TO THEIR LOBBYING.

                                 SO ONE MEMO WE GOT FROM -- WAS FROM THE BUSINESS

                    COUNCIL.  AND THE BUSINESS COUNCIL SAYS, OH, BUT WE ARGUE AGAINST ALL

                                         42



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    TAXES AND THAT HELPS RATEPAYERS.  NO, THEY DON'T ARGUE AGAINST ALL TAXES,

                    THEY ARGUE AGAINST TAXES, EVEN THOSE THINGS THAT BENEFIT RATEPAYERS.  SO

                    -- AND HOW -- HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?  WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAD SOME

                    RENEWABLE ENERGY CHARGES ON THE BILL THAT WERE THEN USED TO FUND

                    RENEWABLE ENERGY PROJECTS THAT REDUCED THE OVERALL COST OF ELECTRICITY

                    FOR EVERYONE, BUT THEY LOBBIED AGAINST IT.  WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE

                    INSTEAD IF THEY WEREN'T BEING PAID BY THE UTILITIES WAS SAY, GO AHEAD

                    AND CHARGE THAT ASSESSMENT BECAUSE IT HELPS EVERYONE, BUT DON'T LET

                    THAT ASSESSMENT BE PASSED THROUGH TO THE RATEPAYERS.  LET IT BE

                    CHARGED TO THE SHAREHOLDERS.  NO PROBLEM WITH THAT WHATSOEVER.  FREE

                    SPEECH.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  AND -- BUT THE UTILITIES DO BREAK

                    DOWN THE PORTION OF MEMBERSHIP DUES THAT ARE -- THE TRADE ASSOCIATION

                    USE AND THAT'S -- IN WHAT'S USED FOR LOBBYING AND THAT'S SEGREGATED OUT

                    BECAUSE THEY CAN'T CHARGE BACK THOSE FEES TO THE RATEPAYER AND THAT'S

                    SEGREGATED OUT AND THE PSC (INAUDIBLE) --

                                 MR. CAHILL:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  -- IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  OKAY.  MR. SPEAKER, WHAT THEY --

                    MADAM SPEAKER, WHAT THEY DO IS THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED WHATSOEVER TO

                    CHARGE LOBBYING COSTS AGAINST THEIR OPERATING COSTS THAT THEY WOULD

                    THEN GET REIMBURSED FROM RATEPAYERS.  AND THEN THEY ARE TOLD TO

                    SEGREGATE THOSE PORTIONS OF DUES THAT ARE USED FOR LOBBYING PURPOSES

                    AND SUBTRACT THAT FROM THEIR OPERATING COST.  BUT WHAT DO THEY DO?

                    THEY CALL EDISON ELECTRIC INSTITUTE AND THEY SAY, HEY, HOW MUCH OF

                                         43



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    YOUR DUES GO TO LOBBYING?  AND EDISON ELECTRIC INSTITUTE WITH NO

                    AUDITING WHATSOEVER SAYS, 16 PERCENT; 84 PERCENT OF WHAT WE DO ISN'T

                    LOBBYING.  PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THE EDISON

                    INSTITUTE DOES.  AT LEAST 50 PERCENT OF WHAT THEY DO IS LOBBYING.

                                 LET'S TAKE THE AMERICAN GAS ASSOCIATION, THE

                    AMERICAN GAS ASSOCIATION THAT FOUGHT OUR FRACKING LAWS, THAT CONTINUE

                    TO FIGHT OUR CLEAN ENERGY LAWS, THAT, YOU KNOW, TEAMED UP WITH OTHERS

                    TO DO OTHER THINGS THAT WOULD ACTUALLY HARM OUR ENVIRONMENT.  YOU

                    KNOW HOW MUCH THEY SAY THEY USE FOR LOBBYING?  SIX PERCENT.  AND

                    WHAT DO OUR UTILITIES DO?  THEY TAKE THAT AMOUNT AND THEY PASS IT

                    THROUGH, 94 PERCENT OF WHAT THEY GIVE TO THE AMERICAN GAS

                    ASSOCIATION, WHAT THEY GIVE TO THE NUCLEAR ENERGY INSTITUTE, 84

                    PERCENT OF WHAT THEY GIVE TO THE EDISON ELECTRIC INSTITUTE.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO -- MR. CAHILL, SO -- BUT THE

                    PSC HAS REVIEWED THIS, THEY CONTINUE TO REVIEW THIS, AND IF THEY --

                    THESE -- IF THESE ORGANIZATIONS THAT THEIR MEMBERSHIPS PARTS OF THEIR --

                    ARE PART OF, AND THEY SHOW IT AS A BENEFIT TO THE CUSTOMERS AND THAT'S

                    WHERE, ON THE MEMBERSHIP SIDE OF IT, THEY HAVE ALLOWED FOR THE

                    REIMBURSEMENT OR THE RECOVERY ON THAT IF IT'S A TRUE BENEFIT.  AND WE

                    TALKED, AGAIN, ABOUT SOME OF THOSE AREAS.  WITH THE -- AND AGAIN, LIKE

                    CYBER SECURITY PRACTICES, THE STORM, THE MUTUAL AID, THOSE ARE ALL THINGS.

                    AND NOW UNDER THIS BILL THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE WITH

                    THOSE ORGANIZATIONS --

                                 MR. CAHILL:  NOT TRUE --

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  -- FROM A MEMBERSHIP

                                         44



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    PERSPECTIVE.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THEY COULD CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE.

                    AS I SAID, THEY COULD INCREASE THEIR CONTRIBUTION TO THOSE ORGANIZATIONS.

                    THEY COULD TRIPLE IT, QUADRUPLE IT.  THEY COULD DO IT TEN TIMES.  WHAT

                    THEY CAN'T DO IS CHARGE YOU AND ME AND MY MOM AND OTHER PEOPLE FOR

                    THEIR LOBBYING EFFORTS THAT THEY'RE USING THOSE TRADE ASSOCIATIONS FOR.

                    IT'S REALLY QUITE SIMPLE, THEY CAN CONTINUE TO DO IT, WHAT THEY CAN'T DO IS

                    CHARGE IT TO RATEPAYERS.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  AND I KNOW IN YOUR -- IN YOUR

                    MEMO YOU'VE MENTIONED THAT THESE -- THESE TRADE ASSOCIATIONS ARE

                    LOBBYING AT BOTH THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL FOR POLICIES THAT GOES

                    AGAINST THE INTERESTS OF TAXPAYER -- NEW YORK RATEPAYERS.  I -- I KNOW

                    THAT WAS YOUR MEMO, BUT SOME OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS, I THINK YOU

                    MENTIONED ONE ORGANIZATION, THEY HAVE -- HAVE ADVOCATED ON BEHALF OF

                    THE RATEPAYER, LIKE THE 18-A SURCHARGES HAVE BEEN CONTINUED TO BE

                    EXTENDED, SALES TAX ON ESCOS, YOU KNOW, MANDATING PREVAILING WAGE

                    ON UTILITIES WHICH IS A SHIFT TO THE RATEPAYERS.  SO IS THAT REALLY -- THAT

                    KIND OF COUNTERS YOUR ARGUMENT THAT IT GOES AGAINST THE INTEREST OF

                    RATEPAYERS.  IT DOES BENEFIT --

                                 MR. CAHILL:  IT'S NOT --

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  IT DOESN'T HAVE AN IMPACT ON

                    RATEPAYERS, SOME OF THESE POLICIES THAT THESE GROUPS DO ADVOCATE FOR OR

                    AGAINST.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  MADAM SPEAKER, ASSEMBLYMAN

                    PALMESANO, IT'S NOT JUST THAT THEY ARE LOBBYING, IT IS HOW THEY ARE

                                         45



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    LOBBYING.  IT IS HOW RATEPAYERS' MONEY IS BEING USED AGAINST THEM.

                    AND THAT'S ALL THIS BILL IS TRYING TO PREVENT.  IT'S TRYING TO REINFORCE THE

                    LAW THAT ALREADY EXISTS, CLOSE THE LOOPHOLE THAT HAS BEEN USED THROUGH

                    SLOPPY ACCOUNTING, THROUGH NO ACCOUNTABILITY, THROUGH

                    MISCLASSIFICATION OF EXPENSES TO PREVENT UTILITIES FROM DOING WHAT

                    THEY'RE ALREADY, BY LAW, PROHIBITED FROM DOING.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY FEAR THAT

                    THIS IS GOING TO DISCOURAGE OBVIOUSLY THESE ORGANIZATIONS THAT THEY

                    PARTICIPATE IN, THE LOCAL CHAMBERS OF COMMERCES, THE RED CROSSES, THE

                    YMCAS, WHO DO -- BECAUSE THOSE GROUPS ADVOCATE, THOSE GROUPS

                    TECHNICALLY LOBBY.  NOW THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PROVIDE MEMBERSHIP

                    DUES FOR THOSE AND THEY WILL BE PROHIBITED FROM DOING THAT.  WON'T THAT

                    DISCOURAGE THAT INVOLVEMENT IN THOSE LOCAL COMMUNITIES, THEN?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  UNDER EXISTING LAW, WITHOUT THIS LAW,

                    OUR UTILITIES ARE PROHIBITED FROM LOBBYING LEGISLATURES.  THEY ARE

                    PROHIBITED FROM PASSING THAT ON TO RATEPAYERS.  THEY CAN LOBBY, THEY

                    DO; I WAS ENERGY CHAIR FOR FOUR YEARS, TRUST ME, THEY MOVED INTO MY

                    OFFICE.  BUT WHAT THEY CAN'T DO TO PASS IT ON TO RATEPAYERS.  THEY CAN

                    CONTINUE TO DO THAT, I URGE THEM TO DO IT.  I URGE THEM TO PARTICIPATE IN

                    ASSOCIATIONS.  I URGE THEM TO HAVE THEIR VOICES HEARD.  AND I THINK IF I

                    OWN SHARES OF STOCK IN CENTRAL HUDSON, THE UTILITY THAT SERVES ME THAT'S

                    OWNED BY A CANADIAN COMPANY, OR IF I OWN SHARES OF STOCK IN NYMO

                    THAT'S OWNED BY ANOTHER BRITISH UTILITY, OR ROCHESTER GAS & ELECTRIC

                    THAT'S OWNED BY A SPANISH UTILITY, OR NEW YORK GAS & ELECTRIC THAT'S

                    OWNED BY A SPANISH UTILITY, I WOULD WANT THEM TO GO AHEAD AND LOBBY

                                         46



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    FOR THINGS THAT WORK FOR THE RATEPAYER, THAT'S GREAT.  WHAT I DON'T WANT

                    TO DO IS PAY FOR IT AS A RATEPAYER.  IF I WAS A SHAREHOLDER, HAVE AT IT.  IF

                    IT'S GOING TO HELP ME AS A SHAREHOLDER, I WANT THEM TO DO IT.  BUT A LOT

                    OF THOSE SHAREHOLDERS DON'T EVEN LIVE HERE, THEY LIVE IN CANADA, THEY

                    LIVE IN SPAIN, THEY LIVE IN ENGLAND.  ONLY ONE UTILITY IS NATIVE, THAT'S

                    CON ED.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU, MR. CAHILL, I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.  I UNDERSTAND YOUR --

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL -- OR MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE

                    BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YES, LISTEN.  I THINK I

                    UNDERSTAND THE INTENTION BEHIND THIS LEGISLATION, BUT THE FACT OF THE

                    MATTER IS RIGHT NOW, COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH LOBBYING ARE NOT RECOVERED

                    UNDER THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW.  I THINK THIS LEGISLATION REALLY GOES TO

                    THESE NON-LOBBYING ACTIVITIES.  THESE TRADE ASSOCIATION MEMBERSHIPS

                    HAVE MANY BENEFITS TO CUSTOMERS.  WE TALKED ABOUT THEM BEFORE, IT

                    ALLOWS UTILITIES TO SHARE BEST PRACTICES ON CYBER SECURITY AND, AGAIN,

                    WITH THE RECENT HACKING OF THE COLONIAL PIPELINE, WHICH IS A MAJOR

                    SUPPLIER OF ENERGY TO THE NORTHEAST, IT HELPS THEM.  BEING A PART OF

                    THESE ASSOCIATIONS, IT HELPS THEM TO FACILITATE ACTIVITIES, CRITICAL

                    ACTIVITIES LIKE MUTUAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS WHERE THE MEMBERS SHARE

                    DISASTER RECOVERY RESOURCES FOR HOPEFULLY FAST RECOVERIES, AND LOWER

                    COSTS FOR CUSTOMERS.  IT FACILITATES THE COORDINATION OF SHARING OF

                    EQUIPMENT AND HARD TO FIND TRANSFORMERS SOMETIMES.

                                         47



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 I THINK ALSO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT THIS IS GOING TO

                    HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON SOME OF THESE OTHER ASSOCIATIONS, AGAIN, YES,

                    LIKE THE RED CROSS, LIKE THE YMCA, LIKE THESE CHAMBERS OF

                    COMMERCE, BECAUSE THEY DO ADVOCACY ON OTHER ISSUES THAT HAVE

                    NOTHING TO DO WITH UTILITIES -- THESE UTILITIES PARTNER WITH THESE GROUPS.

                    IT COULD BE A HIT TO THEM AND A CONCERN TO THEM AND I THINK THAT'S

                    SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT AS WELL, BECAUSE THESE ASSOCIATIONS

                    PROVIDE A BENEFIT, IT'S BEEN DETERMINED BY THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    COMMISSION THAT THERE IS A BENEFIT TO THE CUSTOMERS AND THE RATEPAYERS

                    AND FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, THEY ANALYZE THIS, THEY BREAK IT UP.  THEY

                    HAVE TO DETERMINE IF IT'S APPROPRIATE OR NOT, AND THEN THOSE COSTS THAT

                    ARE APPROPRIATE ARE NOT THERE.

                                 SO -- AND FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, I'LL JUST CLOSE WITH

                    THIS.  I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN AND INTEREST FOR THE RATEPAYER, I SUPPORT

                    THAT, BUT I THINK WE -- THERE ARE A LOT MORE SUBSTANTIAL THINGS WE SHOULD

                    BE LOOKING AT AND DOING IT.  WE TALKED ABOUT THIS.  WE HAVE THE 18-A

                    SURCHARGE WHICH HAS BEEN ON OUR BILLS FOR YEARS, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE

                    TEMPORARY, OTHER TAXES, FEES, AND ASSESSMENTS --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ONE MINUTE.  MR.

                    CAHILL, WHY DO YOU RISE?

                                 MR. CAHILL: (INAUDIBLE).

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. --

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  I WOULD LOVE TO YIELD.  I'VE GOT A

                    COUPLE MINUTES AND THEN I'LL STAND UP AFTER.  I'M ALMOST DONE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PALMESANO WILL

                                         48



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    NOT YIELD AT THE MOMENT.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  NOT OUT OF DISRESPECT, I JUST

                    WANT TO FINISH MY COMMENT HERE AND THEN I'LL BE HAPPY TO YIELD, THANK

                    YOU.

                                 OUR CURRENT BILLS RIGHT NOW, $1-PLUS BILLION ARE TAXES,

                    FEES, AND ASSESSMENTS ON OUR LOCAL UTILITY BILLS, YOU KNOW, FOR THE 18-A

                    SURCHARGE, FOR OTHER GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS THAT WE SEE OVER AND OVER

                    AGAIN THAT ARE RAISING BILLS AND WE DID A UTILITY ADVOCATE ON THE PSC,

                    BUT THIS IS A MANDATE THAT IS GOING TO BE ON OUR BILLS THAT OUR RATEPAYERS

                    ARE GOING TO BE PAYING.  THIS IS SUBSTANTIAL.  THESE ARE -- WE'RE TALKING

                    ABOUT SUBSTANTIAL DOLLARS.  WE TALKED ABOUT THE NET METERING ISSUE

                    BEFORE WHERE THEY SHIFT THE COST TO THE RATEPAYERS BECAUSE THEY

                    REIMBURSE AT THE RETAIL RATE INSTEAD OF -- TO AVOID A COST RATE, WHICH IS

                    MORE OF THE SUPPLY ASPECT OF IT VERSUS THE TRANSPORTATION AND DELIVERY,

                    WHICH GETS PASSED ON THE RATEPAYERS BECAUSE THIS LEGISLATURE CONTINUES

                    TO PASS ON THESE MANDATES AND SHIFT THESE COSTS.

                                 I TALKED ABOUT THE CLCPA EARLIER.  IF WE WANT TO DO

                    SOMETHING SIGNIFICANTLY, THEN WE SHOULD BE DOING A FULL COST-BENEFIT

                    ANALYSIS OF THE CLCPA AND GET A TRUE FINANCIAL IMPACT OF WHAT THAT'S

                    GOING TO COST OUR RATEPAYERS, OUR BUSINESSES.  WE KNOW IT'S GOING TO

                    COST BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ANNUALLY TO COMPLY WITH THE MANDATES OF THE

                    CLCPA AS THEY MOVE FORWARD.  THE RETROFIT COSTS FOR -- FOR BUSINESSES,

                    FOR MANUFACTURERS, FOR HOMES TO CONVERT THEIR -- THEIR HOUSES OR

                    BUILDINGS OVER IS GOING TO BE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON FAMILIES.

                    THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE A DIRECT IMPACT, MAJOR IMPACT

                                         49



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    ON OUR RATEPAYERS AND OUR CUSTOMERS, AND WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR --

                    NOT TO PUT FORTH PROPOSALS THAT ARE GOING TO -- HAVE BEEN REPORTED THAT

                    COULD INCREASE GAS PRICES SIGNIFICANTLY AND HOME HEATING COSTS

                    SIGNIFICANTLY.  THERE IS SO MUCH MORE WE COULD BE DOING AS A BODY

                    HERE THAT WOULD ACTUALLY IMPACT WHAT'S GOING ON AND IMPACTING THE

                    RATEPAYERS, BUT NO, THIS BODY AND THIS GOVERNOR CONTINUES TO ADVANCE

                    POLICIES THEY SAY IS GOOD, BUT IT'S GOING TO HAVE A DRAMATIC IMPACT AND

                    HAS HAD A DRAMATIC IMPACT ON WHAT OUR RATEPAYERS ARE PAYING NOW.

                    AGAIN, ALREADY OVER $1-PLUS BILLION ANNUALLY.  AND WITH THE

                    IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CLCPA, IT'S GOING TO BE MUCH, MUCH, MUCH

                    MORE.  AND SOME OTHER PROPOSALS THAT HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED THAT ARE

                    OUT THERE, MUCH, MUCH MORE.

                                 SO THIS IS NOT GOING TO MAKE AN IMPACT, I THINK IT'S

                    MORE OF AN ACTION TO TRY TO SAY THAT THEY WANT TO TRY TO MAKE AN IMPACT,

                    BUT IT'S NOT.  AND THESE TRADE ASSOCIATIONS, THESE GROUPS, AGAIN, THEY

                    HELP COORDINATE ACTIVITIES WITH OTHER GROUPS TO HELP FOR THOSE THINGS

                    THAT I TALKED ABOUT, AGAIN, FROM STORM RECOVERY, MUTUAL AID ASSURANCE,

                    CYBER SECURITY, THOSE ARE ALL IMPORTANT THINGS THAT BENEFIT THE -- NOT JUST

                    THE UTILITY, IT BENEFITS THE CUSTOMER AND THE RATEPAYER AND THAT'S WHY THE

                    PSC HAS RULED THOSE ARE JUSTIFIABLE UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES IF IT'S A

                    BENEFIT TO THE CUSTOMER.

                                 SO THAT'S WHY FOR THOSE REASONS I'M GOING TO BE NO, BUT

                    I HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS, KEVIN, IF YOU WANT TO ASK ME A QUESTION, I'LL

                    TRY MY BEST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. CAHILL?

                                         50



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO, YOU MENTIONED THE -- THE CYBER SECURITY

                    ISSUE AND GAS PIPELINES AND, QUITE FRANKLY, I SPENT A COUPLE OF NIGHTS

                    THIS WEEK COMBING OBVIOUSLY JUST THE INTERNET, LOOKING TO SEE WHERE

                    THE AMERICAN GAS ASSOCIATION OR THE EDISON ELECTRIC INSTITUTE OR ANY

                    OF THOSE HAVE BEEN LOBBYING OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS TO IMPROVE

                    CYBER SECURITY.  I COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING.  DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING

                    ALONG THOSE LINES?

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  JUST GIVEN THE ASPECT OF THESE

                    ARE AREAS THAT THEY COULD BE.  I DON'T HAVE SOMETHING SPECIFIC THEY CAN

                    DO, BUT OBVIOUSLY WITH THOSE (INAUDIBLE) SOME OF THE THINGS THEY CAN

                    LOOK AT AND ACT ON AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE ALL SHOULD BE DOING

                    --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  UNFORTUNATELY, MR.

                    PALMESANO, YOU HAVE RUN OUT OF OUR TIME.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  I'D BE HAPPY TO TALK TO YOU

                    AFTER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO

                    ANSWER MR. CAHILL'S QUESTION.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR ONE OR TWO QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. CAHILL, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  WITH PLEASURE, MR. --

                                         51



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.  MR.

                    CAHILL YIELDS, SIR.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. CAHILL, JUST A

                    QUESTION OR TWO.  EARLIER YOU SAID IN THE PREVIOUS DEBATE THAT YOU THINK

                    THE COSTS SHOULD BE SHARED BY THE SHAREHOLDERS, CORRECT?  SO -- SO TELL

                    ME HOW THAT WOULD WORK.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  WELL, LET -- LET ME ANSWER YOUR

                    QUESTION.  WHAT I SAID IS THAT IF THE UTILITY WISHES TO PARTICIPATE IN THE

                    TRADE ASSOCIATIONS, THEY ARE FREE TO DO SO.  THEY ONLY -- THE ONLY THING

                    THIS BILL SAYS IS LIKE THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW ALREADY SAYS, THAT THEY

                    CAN'T CHARGE IT AGAINST THE RATEPAYERS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  AND DID I HEAR YOU

                    RIGHT WHEN YOU SAID THAT THE SHAREHOLDERS COULD COVER THAT COST, WAS

                    THAT --

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THAT'S EXISTING LAW AND THIS DOESN'T

                    CHANGE THAT, YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO MAYBE YOU CAN HELP

                    ME OUT HERE A LITTLE BIT, MAYBE I'M MISSING SOMETHING.  SO LET'S SAY I'M

                    THE SHAREHOLDER.  LET'S SAY YOU'RE THE COMPANY, I'M THE SHAREHOLDER.

                    YOU'RE OFFERING UP STOCK, I'M GOING TO BUY $100,000 WORTH OF YOUR

                    STOCK.  I'M A RETIRED GUY AND THAT'S MY SAVINGS, AND HERE'S $100,000.

                    SO WHEN YOU BUY STOCK, YOU GET QUARTERLY DIVIDENDS EVERY QUARTER

                    FROM THE COMPANY, OR HOPEFULLY YOU DO.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO LET'S SAY I GET THOSE

                                         52



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    QUARTERLY DIVIDENDS AND NOW I'M RECEIVING THEM, NOW I'M GOING TO USE

                    SOME OF THAT MONEY TO COVER THE COSTS OF A LOBBYIST; WOULD THAT BE

                    ACCEPTABLE?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  BUT WHEN THE COMPANY PAYS

                    FOR MY DIVIDEND, IS THAT NOT TAX -- OR RATEPAYERS' MONEY?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  NO, IT'S -- IT IS -- ACTUALLY, THEY SUBMIT

                    TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION HOW MUCH THEY WOULD LIKE TO PAY IN

                    DIVIDENDS TO THEIR SHAREHOLDERS AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION

                    APPROVES THAT, AS WELL.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT AND I

                    AGREE WITH THAT.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THEY'RE -- THEY'RE CALLED ABOVE THE

                    LINE OR BELOW THE LINE EXPENSES, AND IT'S VERY INTERESTING HOW UTILITIES

                    HAVE TREATED IT BECAUSE SOMETIMES THEY'LL TREAT AN ASSOCIATION AS AN

                    ABOVE THE LINE EXPENSE, AND SOMETIMES THEY'LL TREAT IT AS A BELOW THE

                    LINE EXPENSE, AND IT'S REALLY -- AND WHEN THEY GO BELOW THE LINE, THEY --

                    WHAT THEY MIGHT DO IS SUBTRACT OUT THAT 6 PERCENT THAT THE AMERICAN

                    GAS ASSOCIATION SAYS, BUT IF IT'S ABOVE THE LINE, IT DOESN'T ENTER INTO THE

                    RATE EQUATION WHATSOEVER, IT'S DEDUCTED FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  BUT -- BUT STILL, DOESN'T

                    -- DOESN'T THE DOLLARS COME FROM THE -- THE RATEPAYERS?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  EVERY DOLLAR THAT UTILITIES MAKE COME

                    FROM EITHER THE RATEPAYERS OR THEIR INVESTMENTS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO -- BUT IT IS A

                                         53



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    POSSIBILITY THAT SOME OF THAT MONEY COMING TO ME AS A SHAREHOLDER

                    COULD BE COMING FROM A RATEPAYER?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THAT'S MY POINT --

                                 MR. CAHILL:  ABSOLUTELY.  BUT LET'S NOT CONFUSE THAT

                    THIS IS JUST COMING OUT OF A DIFFERENT POCKET.  WHEN YOU GO BEFORE THE

                    PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION, YOU SAY -- LET'S JUST OVER SIMPLIFY IT.  YOU

                    SAY, HERE ARE THE FIVE THINGS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO HOW MUCH WE WANT TO

                    CHARGE $10 FOR.  THIS ONE IS $2, EACH ONE IS $2.  NONE OF THOSE $2 CAN

                    BE LOBBYING EXPENSES.  IF THEY SAY, HERE ARE THE SIX THINGS WE WANT TO

                    CHARGE OUR CUSTOMERS $2 FOR AND IT ADDS UP TO $12 AND TWO OF THOSE

                    DOLLARS IS LOBBYING, PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION SAYS, GREAT; YOU CAN

                    CHARGE $10 NOT $12.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  ALL RIGHT.  I UNDERSTAND THAT.  I

                    THINK THAT I STILL BELIEVE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE MONEY IS GOING TO

                    COME FROM THE TAXPAYER -- OR THE -- THE RATEPAYER NO MATTER WHAT.  I

                    MEAN, AS YOU JUST SAID, IT COULD BE DONE THIS WAY OR DONE THAT WAY.

                    AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE SHAREHOLDERS COVERING THE COST OF THAT, I

                    DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT I THINK THAT SHAREHOLDERS' MONEY IS

                    PROBABLY COMING FROM THE RATEPAYERS.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  IT IS NOT -- ACTUALLY, NO, BY LAW AND BY

                    REGULATORY PROCESS, IT IS NOT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  WELL, I APPRECIATE YOUR

                    TIME AND I'M ACTUALLY ON THE FENCE ON THIS BILL.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THANK YOU, MR. MANKTELOW.

                                         54



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OUR RULES IN THE ASSEMBLY REQUIRE

                    THAT THE TITLE OF EVERY BILL STATE BRIEFLY THE SUBJECT OF THE BILL.  AND THE

                    TITLE OF THIS BILL SAYS THAT IT RELATES TO UTILITY MEMBERSHIP DUES BEING

                    USED FOR LOBBYING ACTIVITIES.  IN REALITY, THIS BILL BANS UTILITY

                    MEMBERSHIP DUES FROM BEING USED TO SUPPORT ANY ORGANIZATION THAT

                    MAY ENGAGE IN LOBBYING.  AS THE SPONSOR WAS VERY CLEAR, AND I

                    APPRECIATE HIS COMMENTS, CURRENT LAW PROHIBITS UTILITY COMPANIES FROM

                    CHARGING RATEPAYERS ANYTHING FOR LOBBYING ACTIVITIES; THAT IS ALREADY NOT

                    ALLOWED.  IF I UNDERSTAND THE SPONSOR CORRECTLY, HIS CONCERN IS THAT THE

                    ALLOCATION BETWEEN LOBBYING ACTIVITIES AND NON-LOBBYING ACTIVITIES OF

                    SOME OF THESE MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATIONS IS NOT ACCURATE.  BUT THAT'S ALL

                    WITHIN THE CURRENT JURISDICTION OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION.  SO

                    IF HE HAS A CONCERN WITH THE WAY THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION IS

                    REVIEWING IT, THE REMEDY IS NOT TO CHANGE THE LAW, IT'S TO GET THE PUBLIC

                    SERVICE COMMISSION TO LOOK AT IT MORE CAREFULLY.

                                 SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM, THEN, WITH THIS LEGISLATION?

                    WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT HELP US AS LEGISLATORS BY

                    PROVIDING US WITH INFORMATION WITH A PERSPECTIVE THAT WE MIGHT NOT

                                         55



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    NECESSARILY KNOW ABOUT THAT GIVE US A VIEW FROM THE INDUSTRY THAT

                    GIVES US RELEVANT FACTS.  AND WHAT THIS BILL SAYS IS UTILITY COMPANIES

                    CANNOT CONTRIBUTE ANY MONEY AND GET REIMBURSED BY THE RATEPAYERS FOR

                    ANY ORGANIZATION THAT MIGHT BE ENGAGED IN LOBBYING EVEN THOUGH THEIR

                    FUNDING OF THAT ORGANIZATION, VERY CLEARLY, IS NOT REIMBURSED BY THE

                    RATEPAYERS FOR ANY OF THAT LOBBYING.  AND WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE A

                    NUMBER OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT PROVIDE VALUABLE SERVICES TO ITS

                    MEMBERSHIP.  AS AN ATTORNEY, I APPRECIATE THE SERVICES I GET THROUGH

                    THE NEW YORK STATE BAR ASSOCIATION, FOR EXAMPLE.  AND I WILL ASSURE

                    YOU THAT I DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH THEIR POSITIONS ON BILLS, BUT I

                    APPRECIATE READING THEM.  AND AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S A NUMBER OF OTHER

                    MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATIONS, RIGHT, WHERE WE APPRECIATE THEIR VIEWS

                    WHETHER WE AGREE WITH THEM OR NOT.  AND AS THE SPONSOR

                    ACKNOWLEDGED, THE REASON WHY WE WANT TO BAN ANY REIMBURSEMENT TO

                    UTILITY COMPANIES FOR MEMBERSHIP DUES FOR NON-LOBBYING EFFORTS IS

                    BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE ORGANIZATIONS THEY SUPPORT DON'T AGREE WITH A

                    PARTICULAR POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE.  THAT'S A DANGEROUS PATH, ISN'T IT?  IF

                    YOU LIKE WHO YOU'RE SUPPORTING, THEN YOU CAN INCLUDE IT IN YOUR RATE

                    BASE, AND IF WE DON'T LIKE WHAT THE ORGANIZATION MIGHT SAY IN AN

                    UNREIMBURSABLE LOBBYING ACTIVITY, THEN WE WON'T SUPPORT YOU AND WE

                    WON'T LET YOU EVEN CONTRIBUTE.

                                 AS MY COLLEAGUE -- AS MY FORMER COLLEAGUE -- CURRENT

                    COLLEAGUE, THE FORMER SPEAKER, THE RANKER ON ENERGY, NOTED A LOT OF

                    THESE MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATIONS ARE EXTRAORDINARILY HELPFUL TO UTILITY

                    COMPANIES AND TO THEIR CUSTOMERS, BY HELPING THEM, HELPING THEM TO

                                         56



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    UNDERSTAND AND COMPLY WITH ALL THE REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS WE KEEP

                    ADDING, HELP THEM TO UNDERSTAND AND COMPLY WITH MAINTENANCE

                    REQUIREMENTS AND COORDINATE MUTUAL AID AND BE UP TO SPEED ON ALL THE

                    REQUIREMENTS FOR PERSONNEL AND ALL THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS,

                    ENVIRONMENTAL COMPLIANCE AND EVERYTHING ELSE.  AS MY COLLEAGUE, THE

                    SPONSOR, NOTED, SOME OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS' BUDGETS HAVE A RELATIVELY

                    SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THEIR OVERALL BUDGET THAT'S REPORTED FOR LOBBYING, 6

                    PERCENT IN ONE CASE, 16 PERCENT IN ANOTHER AS I RECALL.  SO WHAT WE'RE

                    SAYING IS 100 PERCENT OF A UTILITY'S DUES TO A MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION

                    CAN NO LONGER BE REIMBURSED EVEN THOUGH 94 PERCENT OF THAT

                    ORGANIZATION'S BUDGET IS UNRELATED TO LOBBYING.

                                 UNFORTUNATELY, THE TITLE I THINK IS MISLEADING BECAUSE

                    IT DOESN'T RELATE TO UTILITY MEMBERSHIP DUES BEING USED FOR LOBBYING

                    ACTIVITIES, THAT'S ALREADY ILLEGAL.  WHAT IT REALLY DOES IS IT RELATES TO

                    UTILITY MEMBERSHIP DUES USED FOR ANY ORGANIZATION THAT ENGAGES IN ANY

                    LOBBYING EFFORT NO MATTER HOW SMALL OR INSIGNIFICANT IN ITS BUDGET,

                    WHICH WOULD MEAN UTILITY COMPANIES CANNOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE NEW

                    YORK STATE BUSINESS COUNCIL BECAUSE THEY DO A LITTLE BIT OF LOBBYING,

                    OR TO ANY OF THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE A BROADER PERSPECTIVE

                    THAN JUST LOBBYING SIMPLY BECAUSE SOME PORTION, NO MATTER HOW SMALL,

                    OF THEIR BUDGET IS RELATED TO LOBBYING AND IT'S ALREADY EXCLUDED FROM

                    REIMBURSEMENT.  BECAUSE I THINK THIS BILL GOES TOO FAR, I'LL BE

                    RECOMMENDING AGAINST IT TO MY COLLEAGUES.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. CAHILL ON THE

                    BILL.

                                         57



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. CAHILL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'D LIKE TO

                    JUST REMIND EVERYBODY THAT IT IS ALREADY ILLEGAL FOR UTILITIES, OUR

                    MONOPOLY UTILITIES IN NEW YORK STATE, TO CHARGE RATEPAYERS FOR

                    LOBBYING ACTIVITIES.  IT HAS BEEN ILLEGAL FOR SOME TIME AND IT'S A GOOD

                    LAW AND I THINK MOST OF US HERE SUPPORT THAT CONCEPT.  I THINK MOST OF

                    US AGREE THAT OUR RATEPAYER MONEY SHOULD NOT BE USED BY OUR UTILITIES

                    TO LOBBY US.  IF THEY WANT TO LOBBY US, LET THEM TAKE IT FROM PROFITS.  LET

                    THEM TAKE IT FROM SOME PART THAT IS NOT PART OF THE RATE THAT THEY CAN

                    CAPTURE AND RECOVER FROM THEIR RATEPAYERS.  IF YOU'RE AGAINST THAT, THEN

                    -- THEN FINE, THEN THAT'S YOUR PREROGATIVE.  THIS BILL DOESN'T CREATE THAT

                    PROHIBITION.  THIS CLOSES A LOOPHOLE THAT HAS MADE THIS PROHIBITION

                    VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO ENFORCE.

                                 QUESTIONS WERE RAISED ABOUT THE RED CROSS, QUESTIONS

                    WERE RAISED ABOUT -- I DON'T KNOW IF SOMEBODY ACTUALLY SAID IT, BUT THE

                    LITTLE LEAGUE.  AND I KNOW, I GO TO LITTLE LEAGUE GAMES AND THERE'S A NICE

                    BANNER ON THE SIDE OF THE FENCE AND IT SAYS, LIKE A GOOD NEIGHBOR,

                    CENTRAL HUDSON IS HERE; IT'S NOT REALLY WHAT IT SAYS, BUT IT SAYS

                    SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND, SPONSORED BY CENTRAL HUDSON, MY UTILITY.  IT

                    DOESN'T SAY SPONSORED BY THE RATEPAYERS OF CENTRAL HUDSON, IT SAYS,

                    SPONSORED BY CENTRAL HUDSON.  SO THERE'S A CHECK BOX ON MOST UTILITY

                    BILLS AND IT SAYS, DO YOU WANT TO HELP YOUR NEIGHBORS, DO YOU WANT TO

                    PAY THEIR UTILITY BILLS, HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO SPEND TO PAY YOUR

                    NEIGHBOR'S UTILITY BILLS.  WE'LL PUT IT IN THIS FUND, WE'LL USE IT FOR THAT

                    PURPOSE.  THAT'S WHEN A RATEPAYERS MAKES A DECISION ABOUT HOW THEY

                    WANT THEIR RATE TO BE USED AND HOW THEY WANT THEIR MONEY TO BE USED.

                                         58



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    BUT IF I DON'T LIKE WHAT MY UTILITY IS LOBBYING FOR OR IF I DON'T LIKE WHAT

                    THAT UTILITY IS USING TRADE ASSOCIATIONS TO LOBBY FOR, I'M POWERLESS IF I

                    CAN'T FIND OUT, IF I CAN'T TRACE THAT MONEY BACK.  AND IT IS ABSOLUTELY

                    TRUE THAT ADVOCATES BEFORE THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION CAN MAKE

                    THE CASE THAT THE ACCOUNTING BY THE UTILITIES IS INACCURATE.  BUT THE

                    UTILITIES THEMSELVES CLAIM IGNORANCE.  THEY SAY, THIS IS THE NUMBER

                    THEY GAVE US, WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO?  GO AUDIT THE EDISON

                    INSTITUTE?  ARE WE SUPPOSED TO AUDIT THE AMERICAN GAS ASSOCIATION TO

                    SEE HOW MUCH OF THEIR MONEY THEY'RE USING TO OPPOSE CLIMATE CHANGE

                    LEGISLATION, TO SUPPORT FRACKING, TO AVOID LAWS THAT WOULD CREATE

                    SUNSHINE OVER THEIR BOOKS, TO FIGHT NET METERING?  HOW MUCH ARE THEY

                    USING THEIR RESOURCES TO OPPOSE ROOFTOP SOLAR, HOW MUCH ARE THEY

                    USING TO FIGHT TAXES ON PROFITS, HOW MUCH ARE THEY USING TO CLASSIFY

                    COAL AND ALL THE FOSSIL FUELS AS CLEAN?  HOW MUCH ARE THEY USING TO

                    MANIPULATE THE TRANSMISSION AND THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM TO MAKE IT

                    MORE EXPENSIVE FOR CONSUMERS?  HOW MUCH ARE THEY USING TO LOBBY TO

                    SUPPORT EARNINGS FOR THEIR SHAREHOLDERS OVER LOWER RATES FOR THEIR

                    CUSTOMERS?  I DIDN'T MAKE ANY OF THOSE EXAMPLES UP.  THOSE ARE ALL

                    THINGS THAT THESE INSTITUTIONS ARE DOING AND NOT NECESSARILY ASSERTING

                    THEM AS LOBBYING EXPENSES.

                                 SO WHAT THIS IS ABOUT IS SUNSHINE.  THIS IS ABOUT

                    ACCOUNTABILITY.  THIS IS ABOUT MAKING SURE WHEN WE HAVE A LAW IN

                    PLACE THAT IT HAS SOME TEETH.  ON THE LAST BILL WE HAD UP HERE, IT WAS

                    ABOUT PUTTING A CONSUMER ADVOCATE OR SOMEBODY WHO KNEW THAT SIDE

                    OF THE EQUATION ON THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION.  TEN YEARS AGO

                                         59



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    BEFORE THE CURRENT GOVERNOR BECAME GOVERNOR, THAT WOULDN'T HAVE

                    BEEN NECESSARY BECAUSE WE HAD A GROUP CALLED THE UTILITY INTERVENTION

                    UNIT IN OUR CONSUMER BUREAU IN NEW YORK STATE.  BUT THIS GOVERNOR

                    DISBANDED THAT UNIT.  THAT UNIT WAS ALLOWED TO TAKE THE PUBLIC SERVICE

                    COMMISSION TO COURT.  THEY STILL EXIST AS A SHADOW OF THEMSELVES, AND

                    WHAT CAN THEY DO?  THEY CAN GO TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION AND

                    SAY, PRETTY PLEASE.  THAT'S ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE REDUCED TO.

                                 SO WHAT THIS ASSURES IS THAT IF A UTILITY WANTS TO HIDE

                    THEIR LOBBYING EXPENSES IN ORGANIZATIONAL DUES, THAT CAN NO LONGER BE

                    THE CASE.  IF THERE HAD BEEN MORE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE PART OF THE

                    UTILITIES TO DELVE A LITTLE DEEPER, TO BE A LITTLE MORE HONEST ABOUT IT, TO

                    ASSURE THAT WE RATEPAYERS WERE NOT PAYING FOR THEIR FANCIFUL FLIGHTS,

                    MAYBE THIS BILL WOULDN'T BE NECESSARY.  IF I COULD PICK A DIFFERENT

                    UTILITY BECAUSE I DIDN'T LIKE WHAT THEY WERE DOING, MAYBE THIS BILL

                    WOULDN'T BE NECESSARY.  BUT THOSE ARE HYPOTHETICALS THAT ARE ACTUALLY

                    NONEXISTENT, AND THAT IS WHY THIS BILL IS NECESSARY.  AND, MR. SPEAKER, I

                    WOULD URGE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES TO SUPPORT THEIR

                    RATEPAYERS, TO SUPPORT THEIR DOMESTIC RATEPAYERS WHO LIVE IN THIS STATE

                    AND VOTE IN SUPPORT OF THIS LEGISLATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 1556.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO

                    WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                                         60



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION, BUT THOSE WHO

                    SUPPORT IT SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE SO WE CAN

                    RECORD YOUR VOTE PROPERLY.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY THE ONE THAT'S ALWAYS

                    SUPPORTING CONSUMERS WILL BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS ONE; HOWEVER, SHOULD

                    THERE BE COLLEAGUES DESIRING TO BE AN EXCEPTION, THEY CAN CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE'LL BE HAPPY TO RECORD YOUR VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING COLLEAGUES OF MINE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE:  MR. MONTESANO, MR.

                    RA, AND MR. WALCZYK.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 22, CALENDAR NO. 294, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02206, CALENDAR NO.

                                         61



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    294, BARRETT, SEAWRIGHT, DINOWITZ, DE LA ROSA, WEPRIN, REYES,

                    LAVINE, QUART, BRONSON, GOTTFRIED, GLICK, RODRIGUEZ, SIMON, OTIS,

                    GRIFFIN, GALEF, JACKSON, SILLITTI, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, BURDICK.  AN ACT

                    TO ESTABLISH A TASK FORCE TO EXPLORE THE EFFECTS OF CYBER-BULLYING IN

                    NEW YORK STATE AND POTENTIAL MEASURES TO ADDRESS SUCH EFFECTS; AND

                    PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON THE EXPIRATION

                    THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. BARRETT, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  YES, I WILL, THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. BARRETT YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MRS.

                    BARRETT.  I SEE THIS TASK FORCE THAT DEALS WITH CYBER-BULLYING HAS NINE

                    MEMBERS, AND A MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS, FIVE ARE APPOINTED BY THE

                    GOVERNOR AND THEN TWO EACH FROM THE SENATE MAJORITY AND TWO FROM

                    THE ASSEMBLY MAJORITY.  IS THERE A REASON WHY THERE'S NOT A SINGLE

                    APPOINTMENT FROM THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE THAT REPRESENTS ROUGHLY

                    45 PERCENT OF THE ENTIRE STATE?

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  MR. GOODELL, AS FAR AS I

                    UNDERSTAND THIS BILL, IT SAYS THAT THERE ARE FIVE MEMBERS APPOINTED BY

                    THE GOVERNOR, TWO MEMBERS APPOINTED BY THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF

                                         62



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    THE SENATE AND TWO MEMBERS APPOINTED BY THE SPEAKER OF THE

                    ASSEMBLY.  AND SINCE CYBER-BULLYING IS NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE AND THESE

                    ARE THE LEADERS OF THESE TWO BODIES, I DON'T REALLY INTERPRET THIS AS

                    LEAVING OUT THE MINORITY.  I THINK WE HAVE REPRESENTATION FROM BOTH

                    LEGISLATIVE HOUSES AND THE GOVERNOR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO MY QUESTION AGAIN IS WHY DO

                    WE NOT HAVE AN APPOINTMENT FROM THE MINORITY LEADERS IN EACH HOUSE,

                    AS WELL?

                                 MRS. BARRETT:  BECAUSE ELECTIONS HAVE

                    CONSEQUENCES?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  YOU KNOW, WHEN I SAW THAT THERE

                    WAS NO REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATION OR APPOINTMENTS FROM ANY OF THE

                    REPUBLICAN MINORITY ON A TASK FORCE TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY ON

                    THE EFFECTS OF CYBER-BULLYING, MY FIRST REACTION WAS MAYBE

                    CYBER-BULLYING IS LIMITED TO DEMOCRAT DISTRICTS, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE

                    SPONSOR DOESN'T CARE ABOUT REPRESENTATION FROM THE 30 PERCENT OF THE --

                    OF THE STATE THAT'S REPRESENTED BY REPUBLICANS.  NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT

                    ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES AND IN MY DISTRICT, IT WAS A REPUBLICAN

                    ASSEMBLYMAN AND A REPUBLICAN SENATOR THAT WAS ELECTED, NOT A

                    DEMOCRAT ASSEMBLYMAN, THERE HAVE BEEN MANY WHO HAVE TRIED, AND IN

                    THE PAST WE'VE HAD SOME VERY FINE DEMOCRAT ASSEMBLYMEMBERS FROM

                                         63



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    MY DISTRICT.  BUT IF WE REALLY WANT TO HAVE AN EFFECTIVE COMMITTEE THAT

                    LOOKS AT THE ENTIRE STATE, NOT JUST DEMOCRAT DISTRICTS, BUT THE ENTIRE

                    STATE, THEN WE OUGHT TO HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE, AT LEAST ONE

                    REPRESENTATIVE, APPOINTED BY THE MINORITY LEADERS IN THE SENATE AND

                    THE ASSEMBLY.

                                 AND IS THERE ANY MAGIC ABOUT A COMMISSION THAT HAS

                    NINE MEMBERS?  WHAT, WE CAN'T HAVE ONE WITH 11?  THAT'S TOO

                    UNWIELDY?  IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF RESPECT FOR THE FACT THAT

                    MILLIONS OF NEW YORKERS ARE REPRESENTED HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY AND IN

                    THE SENATE BY A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATOR AND WE ARE ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT

                    CYBER-BULLYING.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 2206.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. REILLY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  I COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON THIS.  I THINK THIS IS A WORTHY

                    CAUSE, CYBER-BULLYING.  I HOPE THAT THE TASK FORCE WILL TAKE INTO ACCOUNT

                    SOME IMPLICATION FROM THE SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS IN OUR SCHOOLS WHO

                    HAVE FIRST CONTACT WITH STUDENTS, TEACHERS, AND FAMILIES AND THEY

                                         64



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    COUNSEL STUDENTS IN REGARDS TO CYBER-BULLYING AND HELP DIGITAL

                    CITIZENSHIP.  THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY HERE WE ARE IN POLICE

                    WEEK AND WE HAD THE POLICE MEMORIAL IN D.C.  THREE HUNDRED AND

                    NINETY-FOUR POLICE OFFICERS HAVE DIED IN THE LINE OF DUTY IN 2020, 182 OF

                    THEM FROM COVID.  SO IT'S -- I'M GLAD THAT WE'RE ABLE TO ACKNOWLEDGE

                    THEM, BUT I ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PUT LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE

                    SCHOOLS TO TALK ABOUT THIS, NOT NECESSARILY FOR SOME CRIMINAL ACTIVITY,

                    BUT MORE OF COUNSELING AND MORE OF BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS.

                                 SO I WILL GLADLY SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION AND I

                    COMMEND THE SPONSOR ONCE AGAIN.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.  MR.

                    REILLY IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  I WANT TO COMMEND MY COLLEAGUE FOR THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION, AS WELL.  OF RECENT, WITHIN I WOULD SAY AT LEAST THE LAST

                    THREE WEEKS, I'VE HEARD OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO LITERALLY COMMITTED

                    SUICIDE BECAUSE THEY WERE CYBER-BULLIED.  AND I GUARANTEE YOU,

                    BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T OLD ENOUGH TO BE REGISTERED, NEITHER ONE OF THEM

                    WERE DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN.  THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE DEALT

                    WITH AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PARTISANSHIP.  SO THANK YOU VERY

                    MUCH TO THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION.

                                 AND I ASSURE MY COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE AISLE THAT THIS

                    ISSUE CONCERNS EVERYBODY, WHETHER YOU'RE IN URBAN AREAS, RURAL AREAS,

                    SUBURBAN AREAS OR, QUITE FRANKLY, IN THE MIDDLE OF MIDTOWN, NEW YORK

                                         65



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    CITY.  IT IS AN ISSUE THAT CONCERNS US ALL AND THE WAY MY COLLEAGUE IS

                    SUGGESTING THAT IT BE DEALT WITH IS A PROPER WAY TO DO IT AND AT LEAST A

                    START, AND I HOPE THAT SHE'S -- THE TASK FORCE IS SUCCESSFUL AND I HOPE

                    THAT THEY WOULD TAKE THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE HERE

                    ON THE FLOOR, BECAUSE THERE ARE ANY NUMBER OF PEOPLE ACROSS THIS STATE

                    WHO ARE ENGAGED IN TRYING TO DEAL WITH THIS AS AN ISSUE AS WE SPEAK.

                    AND AS LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE BEEN ELECTED, WHETHER BY REPUBLICANS OR

                    DEMOCRATS, WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO BEGIN DEALING WITH IT.  SO

                    AGAIN, I THANK THE SPONSOR AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I

                    WASN'T GOING TO, BUT I JUST -- I JUST WANT TO SAY A FEW WORDS.  HAVING

                    DEALT WITH CYBER-BULLYING FIRSTHAND IN MY FAMILY AND BACK IN MY

                    DISTRICT, CYBER-BULLYING AS -- AS WE HEARD FROM THE SPONSOR JUST A LITTLE

                    WHILE AGO, THAT ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.  CYBER-BULLYING HAS

                    CONSEQUENCES AND ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO IN THIS CHAMBER TO PROTECT

                    OUR CHILDREN, OUR FAMILY MEMBERS FROM CYBER-BULLYING SHOULD BE TAKEN

                    TO THE FULL EXTENT.  IT SHOULDN'T MATTER WHETHER WE HAVE A D, AN R, AN I

                    BEHIND OUR NAME.  WHAT SHOULD MATTER IS WHO WE REPRESENT IN OUR

                    DISTRICTS AND MAKING SURE OUR DISTRICTS ARE REPRESENTED HERE.

                                 AND AS MY COLLEAGUE SAID, WE IN THE MINORITY, WE

                    SHOULD HAVE A SEAT AT THAT TABLE, ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE LIKE IT OR NOT WHEN

                    SOMEBODY CALLS MY OFFICE OR A FAMILY MEMBER, I DON'T ASK IF THEY'RE A

                                         66



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    DEMOCRAT, REPUBLICAN, INDEPENDENT, NON-PARTY; HOW CAN I HELP YOU?

                    AND THE EXPERIENCE THAT I HAVE COULD BE READILY USED FOR THIS TASK FORCE

                    AND WHY OUR LEADERS DON'T HAVE AN APPOINTMENT, I HAVE NO IDEA.  AND

                    IF THIS IS TRULY ABOUT ELECTIONS, THEN WE'RE NOT DOING THE WILL OF THE

                    PEOPLE FOR THIS STATE.

                                 I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IN THE

                    RIGHT MOVE.  I REALLY WANT TO VOTE NO ON THIS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A

                    SEAT AT THAT TABLE, BUT BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE I REPRESENT, BECAUSE OF THE

                    YOUNG PEOPLE THAT I'VE SEEN HAVE THEIR LIVES DESTROYED BECAUSE OF

                    CYBER-BULLYING, I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THIS BECAUSE IT IS A MOVE IN THE

                    RIGHT DIRECTION.  AND I DON'T CARE IF IT CAME FROM THE MAJORITY SIDE OR

                    THE MINORITY SIDE, I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THIS BILL FOR THAT REASON.  SO

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MANKTELOW IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 EXCEPTIONS?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING COLLEAGUES OF MINE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION:  MR.

                    BYRNE, MR. DIPIETRO, AND MR. FRIEND.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04112, CALENDAR NO.

                    309, THIELE, COOK, GALEF, SANTABARBARA, ZEBROWSKI, MCDONOUGH,

                                         67



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    ROZIC, L. ROSENTHAL, BARRON, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO ZONE PRICING OF GASOLINE, AND TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 579 OF THE LAWS OF 2008, AMENDING THE GENERAL BUSINESS

                    LAW RELATING TO ZONE PRICING FOR RETAIL MOTOR FUEL BASED ON GEOGRAPHIC

                    LOCATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. THIELE, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. THIELE:  I WILL, THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO MR. THIELE, I JUST WANT TO MAKE

                    SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND THIS.  IF I UNDERSTAND THIS BILL CORRECTLY, WHAT IT

                    SAYS IS THAT WHEN IT COMES TO THE SALE OF GASOLINE, THE SUPPLIER CAN ONLY

                    CHARGE ONE PRICE EQUAL TO THE TERMINAL PRICE PLUS THE COST OF

                    TRANSPORTATION, IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. THIELE:  I -- I WOULDN'T SAY ONE PRICE BECAUSE

                    THE WAY THE DEFINITION READS IS THE TERMINAL PRICE PLUS THE DIGITAL COST,

                    WHICH MEAN ALL REPLACEMENT COSTS, TRANSPORTATION COSTS, AND TAXES.

                    AND, YOU KNOW, SO WHAT YOU CAN'T DO IS CHARGE A PRICE BASED SOLELY ON

                    GEOGRAPHY WITH NO RELATIONSHIP TO THOSE COSTS.  SO I CAN FORESEE THAT

                    WITHIN THE RELEVANT GEOGRAPHIC MARKET THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES IN

                    COSTS THAT WOULD NECESSITATE DIFFERENCES IN PRICES, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE

                    RELATED TO THOSE COSTS.  IT CAN'T BE ARBITRARY AND JUST BE BASED ON THE

                    GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION.

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO WHAT THIS BILL WOULD THEN DO IS

                    PROHIBIT BY LAW CHARGING A DIFFERENT PRICE BASED ON COMPETITIVE MARKET

                    PRICES AND INSTEAD WOULD FOCUS ONLY ON PRICING BASED ON GEOGRAPHY, IS

                    THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. THIELE:  WELL, I WOULD LOOK AT IT EXACTLY JUST

                    THE OPPOSITE.  IT BASICALLY SAYS YOU CAN'T SET THE PRICE BASED ON

                    GEOGRAPHY, BUT IT HAS TO BE SET ON LEGITIMATE MARKET FORCES AND THAT IS

                    THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH SELLING A GALLON OF GASOLINE.  SO YOU KNOW,

                    THIS IS A -- A PRO-MARKET BILL.  YOU KNOW, LET COSTS AND SUPPLY AND

                    DEMAND TAKE ITS COURSE.  WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO SEE IS THAT IN PLACES

                    WHERE THERE MIGHT NOT BE AS MUCH COMPETITION, OR SUCH AS A

                    COMMUNITY WHERE I LIVE WHERE YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A SEASONAL

                    COMMUNITY, A LOT OF TOURISM WHERE SUDDENLY THE PRICES GET JACKED UP

                    IN THE SUMMERTIME, OR IN RURAL AREAS OR POOR AREAS WHERE THERE MAY NOT

                    BE A LOT OF COMPETITION WHERE PRICES ARE BEING FIXED BECAUSE THERE ISN'T

                    ENOUGH COMPETITION AND IT'S NOT RELATED TO THE COST.

                                 SO YOU KNOW, THE BILL IS REALLY FOCUSED ON PREVENTING

                    THE ARBITRARY SETTING OF PRICES BASED SOLELY ON YOUR LOCATION.  BUT IT

                    CERTAINLY, AND WHAT IT ATTEMPTS TO FOSTER IS THE SETTING OF PRICES BASED

                    ON LEGITIMATE ECONOMIC FACTORS, WHETHER IT BE TAXES, TRANSPORTATION, THE

                    COST AT THE TERMINAL, RENTALS, RENTAL PRICE OR PROPERTY VALUES, ALL OF THOSE

                    THINGS THAT GO INTO A -- A -- THE COST OF A GALLON OF GASOLINE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. THIELE.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, MR.

                                         69



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S

                    COMMENTS AND I THINK HE AND I HAVE THE SAME UNDERSTANDING OF THE

                    BILL.  WHAT THE BILL SAYS IS THAT A TERMINAL THAT SUPPLIES GASOLINE, THAT

                    COMPANY CAN ONLY CHARGE A PRICE BASED ON THE TERMINAL PRICE, PRICE

                    PICKING IT UP AT THE TERMINAL PLUS THE COST OF DELIVERY AND OTHER RELATED

                    EXPENSES.  AND THAT DIFFERS FROM THE CURRENT SYSTEM BECAUSE UNDER THE

                    CURRENT SYSTEM THE PRICE FOR GASOLINE IS BASED ON MARKET COMPETITIVE

                    PRESSURES, NOT SIMPLY ON ONE-PRICE-FITS-ALL.

                                 AND SO WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS THAT IN A GEOGRAPHIC AREA

                    WHERE THERE'S COMPETITION, THE GASOLINE COMPANY THAT MIGHT HAVE A

                    TERMINAL FURTHER AWAY ACTUALLY CHARGES LESS FOR THE GASOLINE TO OFFSET

                    THE COST OF TRANSPORTATION SO THAT IT CAN BE COMPETITIVE IN ANOTHER

                    MARKET AGAINST ANOTHER SUPPLIER WHO MAY HAVE A TERMINAL THAT'S CLOSER.

                    AND SO THE CURRENT SYSTEM FOSTERS COMPETITION ON PRICE, AND IT FOSTERS

                    COMPETITION ON PRICE BY ALLOWING DISTRIBUTORS TO ACTUALLY CUT THE COST

                    IN ORDER TO BE COMPETITIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

                                 AND WHAT THIS BILL WOULD DO, UNFORTUNATELY, MANY

                    ECONOMISTS HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION WHAT THIS BILL WOULD DO IS

                    ACTUALLY RAISE PRICES, AND HERE'S WHY.  LET'S SAY YOU HAVE A TERMINAL

                    THAT'S CLOSER TO A PARTICULAR POPULATION, THEN YOU'RE A COMPETITOR.  YOU

                    NOW KNOW THAT YOUR COMPETITOR CAN'T MATCH YOUR PRICE, BECAUSE IT'S

                    ILLEGAL UNDER THIS BILL FOR YOUR COMPETITOR TO CUT THE COST TO MATCH YOU.

                    AND SO WHAT DO YOU DO?  WELL, NOBODY IN BUSINESS LEAVES MONEY ON

                    THE TABLE.  AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THE CLOSEST DISTRIBUTOR WILL RAISE ITS

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    PRICE BECAUSE IT CAN RAISE ITS PRICE AND MAKE MORE MONEY BECAUSE ITS

                    COMPETITOR, UNDER THIS BILL, CANNOT REDUCE ITS PRICE.  AND SO ECONOMISTS

                    WHO HAVE LOOKED AT THIS, MANY OF THEM AT LEAST, IN THE INDUSTRY, HAS

                    COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS BILL, WHILE WELL INTENDED, WOULD RESULT

                    IN MUCH HIGHER GASOLINE PRICES FOR MANY RESIDENTS COMPARED TO OTHERS.

                                 AND FOR THAT REASON I DON'T SUPPORT IT ANYMORE THAN I

                    SUPPORT ANY OTHER PRICE SETTING MECHANISM FOR ANY OTHER GOODS THAT WE

                    NEED.  WE DON'T REQUIRE THE SUPPLIERS OF APPLES TO HAVE ONE TWICE.  YOU

                    KNOW, THE BOND PRICE PLUS TRANSPORTATION.  NO.  WHETHER IT'S MEAT,

                    PRODUCE, VEGETABLES, WHETHER IT'S CLOTHING OR ANY OTHER CONSUMER GOOD,

                    WE RELY ON THE COMPETITIVE PRESSURES OF THE MARKET TO GIVE US THE

                    HIGHEST QUALITY AT THE BEST PRICE.  AND THERE'S NO REASON THAT WE SHOULD

                    ENFORCE A PRICING MECHANISM THAT MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR A DISTRIBUTOR

                    OF GASOLINE TO REDUCE THE PRICE OF THE GASOLINE TO OFFSET THE

                    TRANSPORTATION DIFFERENCES SO THAT THEY CAN BE COMPETITIVE ANYMORE

                    THAN WE SHOULD SAY TO AMAZON, YOU CAN'T OFFER FREE SHIPPING.  SO LET'S

                    LET THE MARKET WORK.  IT WORKS BEST WHEN WE FOSTER COMPETITION AND

                    NOT BY STATUTE REGULATE PRICING.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 4112.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

                                         71



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION.  THOSE WHO

                    SUPPORT IT SHOULD CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE SO WE CAN

                    PROPERLY RECORD YOUR VOTE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS IN SUPPORT OF THIS LEGISLATION.

                    THOSE DESIRING TO BE AN EXCEPTION SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  WE'LL BE HAPPY TO RECORD YOUR VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD THE

                    FOLLOWING COLLEAGUES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE IN ADDITION TO THOSE WHO HAVE

                    VOTED ON THE FLOOR:  PLEASE RECORD MR. GANDOLFO, MR. MCDONOUGH, MS.

                    MILLER, MR. SCHMITT, AND MR. WALCZYK IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU,

                    SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, DO WE HAVE ANY EXCEPTIONS?

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

                    COULD RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MS. GRIFFIN IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU VERY

                                         72



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    MUCH.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU

                    HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WE HAVE BOTH.  FIRST

                    THE RESOLUTIONS [SIC].

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. DINOWITZ, PAGE 15, CALENDAR NO.

                    179, BILL NO. A01423-A, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. EPSTEIN, PAGE 23, CALENDAR NO.

                    297, BILL NO. A03112-A, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

                                 ON A PRIVILEGED RESOLUTION NO.  297, THE CLERK WILL

                    READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 297, MS.

                    LUPARDO.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION CELEBRATING THE LIFE AND

                    ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF DR. MICHAEL THONNEY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LEMONDES ON THE

                    RESOLUTION.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND

                    THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR ADVANCING THIS RESOLUTION.  THIS RESOLUTION

                    IS IN COMMEMORATION OF THE LIFE AND COMMUNITY SERVICE OF DR.

                    MICHAEL THONNEY OF ITHACA, NEW YORK, PROFESSOR OF THE CORNELL

                                         73



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE AND LIFE SCIENCES, WHO PASSED AWAY ON APRIL

                    23RD AT THE AGE OF 71.  HE WAS ONE OF THOSE COMMUNITY PILLARS WHO

                    MADE A DIFFERENCE OF DISTINCTION IN HIS LIFE.

                                 IF YOU'LL ALLOW ME TO SHARE A LITTLE ABOUT HIM.  MIKE,

                    AS HE PREFERRED TO BE CALLED, WAS ONE OF THOSE RARE INDIVIDUALS WHO

                    DEMONSTRATED SELFLESS SERVICE IN EVERY ASPECT OF HIS LIFE, TEACHING,

                    ADVOCATING FOR CAUSES HE BELIEVED IN, MENTORING, ET CETERA.  IF HE WAS

                    INVOLVED, HIS PRESENCE WAS KNOWN, AND IT WAS ALWAYS POSITIVE AND

                    WITH INVALUABLE CONTRIBUTIONS.  HE WAS HUMOROUS IN A WAY THAT COULD

                    CATCH YOU OFF GUARD, SOMETIMES SEVERAL MINUTES AFTER THE EXCHANGE

                    TOOK PLACE.  I ALWAYS ENJOYED LISTENING TO HIM.  AND IN SUPPORT OF

                    FARMERS LIKE MYSELF FROM ALL OVER NEW YORK STATE, HE NEVER REFUSED A

                    CALL FOR ADVICE.  I, LIKE SO MANY OTHERS, CALLED HIM MANY TIMES OVER THE

                    YEARS AS WE BEGAN OUR OWN FARMS AND STRUGGLED THROUGH THE CHALLENGES

                    OF DOING SO.

                                 PROFESSIONALLY HE WAS A PROFESSOR OF ANIMAL SCIENCE

                    AT CORNELL SINCE 1988 AND PERSONALLY DIRECTED THE CORNELL SHEEP

                    PROGRAM SINCE 1998, MANAGING A THREE TO 500-EWE FLOCK UNDER THE

                    CORNELL STAR ACCELERATED LAMBING SYSTEM, WHICH IS ONE OF THE MOST

                    SIGNIFICANT ADVANCEMENTS IN SHEEP HUSBANDRY IN THE NATION.  HE SERVED

                    AS HIS DEPARTMENT'S ALTERNATE SENATOR FOR BOTH THE UNIVERSITY AND

                    FACULTY SENATES, AND WAS THE DIRECTOR OF GRADUATE STUDIES FOR THE

                    CROSS-DEPARTMENTAL FIELD OF ANIMAL SCIENCE SINCE 2013, BUT WAS

                    OTHERWISE APOLITICAL, WHICH I REALLY ADMIRED.  WHENEVER WE SPOKE, IT

                    WAS ABOUT OUR INDUSTRY AND HOW TO IMPROVE IT.  HE WAS COMMITTED TO

                                         74



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    THE VIABILITY OF SMALL LIVESTOCK FARMS.  HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN THE

                    REORGANIZATION OF THE CORNELL SHEEP RESEARCH BLOCK AFTER THE 2016

                    REDUCTION, AND ESTABLISHED AN ON-CAMPUS STUDENT OPERATED SHEEP DAIRY

                    FACILITY, INITIALLY WITH HIS OWN FUNDS, AS AN INDICATOR OF HIS

                    COMMITMENT TO AGRICULTURE, HIS PROFESSION AND STUDENTS, AND HE ALSO

                    MANAGED THE LISTSERV FOR OUR INDUSTRY GROUP, WHICH WAS ALWAYS FULL OF

                    INVALUABLE INFORMATION, ADVICE AND TIPS.

                                 IN SHORT, HE WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY, PATIENT EDUCATOR

                    WHO HAS TAUGHT INNUMERABLE AGRICULTURAL STUDENTS THROUGHOUT HIS

                    CAREER, RESULTING IN A MUCH MORE VIBRANT, SMALL RUMINANT INDUSTRY IN

                    NEW YORK STATE.  THEREFORE, WITH DEEP RESPECT AND ADMIRATION AND ON

                    BEHALF ALL WHO KNEW HIM, AND IN RECOGNITION OF THE VALUE OF HIS

                    PROFESSIONAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO CORNELL UNIVERSITY, NEW YORK STATE

                    AGRICULTURAL, AND THE SMALL RUMINANT INDUSTRY NATIONALLY ACROSS THE

                    USA, THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU'VE DONE FOR SO MANY AND FOR SO LONG.

                    FAREWELL, MIKE.  MAY GOD LEAD YOU TO GREENER PASTURES, AND MAY HIS

                    FAMILY ACCEPT OUR DEEPEST CONDOLENCES.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

                    AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, WE HAVE --

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I NOW

                    MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, MAY THE

                    13TH, TOMORROW BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ONE MINUTE, MRS.

                                         75



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 12, 2021

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 WE STILL HAVE NUMEROUS OTHER RESOLUTIONS, WE'LL TAKE

                    THEM UP WITH ONE VOTE.  ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY

                    BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 292-296

                    WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

                                 I'M SORRY, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.  PROCEED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, SIR.  I MOVE

                    THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, MAY THE 13TH,

                    TOMORROW BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY, AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT 2:00 P.M.

                    ON MONDAY -- ON MAY THE 19TH, WEDNESDAY BEING THE NEXT SESSION

                    DAY; WEDNESDAY, MAY THE 19TH AT 2:00 P.M., MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

                    ADJOURNED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 1:33 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD

                    ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, MAY 13TH, THURSDAY BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY,

                    AND TO RECONVENE ON WEDNESDAY, MAY 19TH AT 2:00 P.M., WEDNESDAY

                    BEING A SESSION DAY.)















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