WEDNESDAY, MAY 4, 2022 11:39 A.M.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME

TO ORDER.

IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

SILENCE.

(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

OF ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MAY 3RD.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MAY THE

3RD AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

ORDERED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER

COLLEAGUES, FRIENDS AND VISITORS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS AS WE BEGIN

OUR CELEBRATION OF LEGISLATIVE DISABILITY [SIC] AWARENESS DAY. I'D LIKE

TO BEGIN WITH A QUOTE. THIS QUOTE IS FROM ROBERT MICHAEL HENSEL. HE

WAS BORN WITH A BIRTH DEFECT KNOWN AS SPINA BIFIDA. HE'S ALSO THE

GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER FOR THE LONGEST NON-STOP WHEELIE IN A

WHEELCHAIR, COVERING A TOTAL OF 6.178 MILES. HIS WORDS FOR US TODAY,

THERE'S NO GREATER DISABILITY IN A SOCIETY THAN THE INABILITY TO SEE A

PERSON AS MORE. AGAIN, MR. SPEAKER, THESE WORDS FROM ROBERT

MICHAEL HENSEL.

COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESKS A MAIN CALENDAR.

YOU ALSO HAVE A DEBATE LIST. AND AFTER HOUSEKEEPING AND INTRODUCTIONS

WE ARE GOING TO TAKE UP RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3, INCLUDING ONE BY MR.

ABINANTI COMMENDING THE NEW -- NEW YORK ASSEMBLY LEGISLATIVE

DISABILITY [SIC] AWARENESS DAY. OUR PRINCIPAL WORK, HOWEVER, MR.

SPEAKER, WILL BE TO TAKE UP TEN BILLS FROM THE LEGISLATIVE DISABILITY

[SIC] AWARENESS PACKAGE. THOSE BILLS INCLUDE CALENDAR NO. 125 BY

MR. LAVINE; CALENDAR NO. 134 BY MR. CUSICK; CALENDAR NO. 232 BY

MS. WOERNER; CALENDAR NO. 240 -- I'M SORRY, CALENDAR NO. 232 BY MS.

KELLES; CALENDAR NO. 240 BY MS. WOERNER; CALENDAR NO. 310 BY MR.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ABINANTI; CALENDAR NO. 551 BY MR. BURDICK; CALENDAR NO. 552, MR.

EPSTEIN; 556, MR. EPSTEIN; RULES REPORT BY MR. ZEBROWSKI, NO. 93;

AND RULES REPORT NO. 94 BY MR. GIBBS. WE'RE GOING TO ALSO CONTINUE

OUR CONSENT OF NEW BILLS WHERE WE LEFT OFF ON YESTERDAY. WE'RE GOING

TO BEGIN WITH CALENDAR NO. 575, AND IT'S ON -- IT'S ON PAGE 41, AND

WE'RE GOING TO GO RIGHT THROUGH TO CALENDAR NO. 585. WE'RE ALSO GOING

TO TAKE UP A FEW BILLS FROM THE DEBATE LIST, MR. SPEAKER. WE HAVE

RULES REPORT BY MS. CRUZ, IT'S RULES REPORT NO. 90 -- 83 BY MS.

CRUZ, AND RULES REPORT NO. 91 BY MS. LUCAS. THERE COULD BE A NEED

FOR ADDITIONAL FLOOR ACTIVITY AS WE PROCEED, MR. SPEAKER. I'LL BE HAPPY

TO INFORM YOU AND COLLEAGUES SHOULD THAT BE NECESSARY.

THAT IS THE GENERAL OUTLINE. IF YOU HAVE

HOUSEKEEPING, NOW WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

ON A MOTION BY MR. BURGOS, PAGE 40, CALENDAR NO.

559, BILL NO. 9181-A, THE AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

MR. ABINANTI FOR AN INTRODUCTION. SIR.

MR. ABINANTI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WE ARE

BLESSED TODAY TO HAVE VISITORS FROM ALL PARTS OF THE STATE WHO ARE

ADVOCATES ON BEHALF OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES. WE HAVE NEW YORK

RESIDENTS FROM BUFFALO, NEW YORK CITY, THE HUDSON VALLEY, LONG

ISLAND AND EVERY OTHER PART OF THE STATE JOINING US TODAY BECAUSE TODAY

IS LEGISLATIVE DISABILITIES AWARENESS DAY. WE HAVE PEOPLE

REPRESENTING THE ARCS, APSC, THE ALLIANCE, IAC, (INAUDIBLE),

NYSID, INSPIRE, FAIR, NYAD, CO-OP RIDE AND SEVERAL OTHER

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ORGANIZATIONS. TOO MANY TO MENTION. SO I WANT TO THANK ALL OF THEM

FOR JOINING US TODAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF

OF MR. ABINANTI, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU

HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF

THE FLOOR. EXTEND TO YOU OUR THANKS, OUR HEARTFELT THANKS FOR THE WORK

THAT YOU DO ON BEHALF OF THOSE WHO MAY NOT BE ABLE TO COME HERE AND

MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SPEAK. BUT YOU DO THAT, YOU DO THE WORK AND YOU

ARE BLESSED FOR THAT. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. YOU'RE ALWAYS

WELCOME HERE.

(APPLAUSE)

RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 799, MS.

BUTTENSCHON.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 3, 2022 AS TEACHER APPRECIATION DAY

IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. BUTTENSCHON ON

THE RESOLUTION.

MS. BUTTENSCHON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON BEHALF OF ALL THE EDUCATORS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK AS WELL AS

MEMBERS OF THIS ASSEMBLY, WE CAN ALL THINK BACK TO THAT ONE TEACHER

THAT INSPIRED US, THAT GAVE US THAT INSPIRATION TO MOVE FORWARD. AND AS

WE HONOR TEACHERS THIS WEEK, SPECIFICALLY ON THE 3RD, THIS IDEA CAME

ABOUT IN THE 50'S AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND IN THE 90'S AT THE STATE LEVEL.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

SO TODAY WE HONOR THOSE TEACHERS THAT MANY OF THEM SPEND MORE TIME

DURING THE DAY WITH OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN THAN POSSIBLY WE

DO. SO WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE PROVIDING SOCIALIZATION, ACADEMIC

INSPIRATION AND INTERVENTION, AND WE THANK THEM.

SO ON BEHALF OF THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY I AM

HONORED TO CARRY THIS RESOLUTION ALONG WITH ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES TO

SUPPORT THOSE EDUCATORS ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK FOR ALL THAT THEY

DO. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

ON THE RESOLUTION, MR. SAYEGH.

MR. SAYEGH: ON THE RESOLUTION, MR. SPEAKER. I

ALSO RISE TO COMMEND THE TEACHING PROFESSION AND TO TRULY STATE THAT AS

AN EDUCATOR, AS SOMEONE THAT HAS WORKED WITH TEACHERS FOR MANY

YEARS, THE TEACHERS THAT TEACH OUR CHILDREN PLAY THE BIGGEST ROLE IN THE

DEVELOPMENT OF OUR CHILDREN. WE ALL KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF A GOOD

ACADEMIC PROGRAM. WE KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF TEACHERS AND

EDUCATORS WHO ARE COMMITTED, WHO ARE DEDICATED, WHO UNDERSTAND THE

INDIVIDUAL NEEDS OF EACH AND EVERY CHILD. AND WE IN NEW YORK STATE

ARE BLESSED WITH A TERRIFIC TEACHING STAFF ALL ACROSS THE STATE THAT WE

RELY ON TO ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF EVERY ONE OF OUR CHILDREN. WHETHER IT'S

A CHILD WITH SPECIAL NEEDS. AND TODAY AS WE HONOR PEOPLE WITH

DISABILITIES WE RECOGNIZE THAT THE NEED TO RESPECT EACH CHILD STARTS FROM

PRE-K AND IT GOES ON THROUGHOUT THE PRE-K TO 8TH AND HIGH SCHOOL.

AND AS WE GO INTO COLLEGES AND POST-GRADUATE, THERE'S SPECIAL TESTING

ACCOMMODATIONS. AND NOW WE REALIZE THE IMPORTANCE MOTIVATION HAS,

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

AND THAT'S WHAT TEACHERS PROVIDE. TO RECOGNIZE IF A CHILD HAS A

DISABILITY. IF A CHILD IS A GIFTED CHILD THAT NEEDS THE EXTRA RESOURCES OR

MOTIVATION. OR IF A CHILD IS AN ENGLISH LANGUAGE LEARNER THAT NEEDS

THAT SPECIAL PUSH. AND TODAY IS REALLY A TRIBUTE TO THE TEACHING

PROFESSION, TO THE MANY TEACHERS ACROSS OUR STATE AND NATION THAT TRULY

PLAY THE BIGGEST ROLE IN MAKING SURE WE SHAPE A POSITIVE LIFE FOR ALL OF

OUR CHILDREN SO THAT THEY CAN LEAD PRODUCTIVE CAREERS AND LIVES.

SO I -- I HUMBLY COMMEND THE SPONSOR, EACH -- EACH

AND EVERY ONE OF OUR COSPONSORS AND SUPPORTERS HERE AND ACROSS THE

STATE IN RECOGNIZING AND HONORING THE TEACHING PROFESSION. THANK YOU

VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. SIMON ON THE RESOLUTION.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I, TOO, WANT

TO RISE AND SUPPORT MY COLLEAGUE FOR THIS RESOLUTION TODAY. TEACHERS

ARE CRITICAL TO OUR CHILDREN'S DEVELOPMENT, TO OUR FAMILIES. AS

SOMEONE WHO TAUGHT IN THE SPONSOR'S DISTRICT MANY YEARS AGO, I HAVE A

VERY WARM SPOT IN MY HEART FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION, FOR EDUCATION OF

DEAF CHILDREN. BUT I HAVE TAUGHT THROUGHOUT THE SPECTRUM AND -- OF

EDUCATION AND HONOR AND APPRECIATE ALL THE TEACHERS IN NEW YORK

STATE, AND I'M SO HAPPY TO SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION TODAY ON THE FLOOR.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 812, RULES

AT THE REQUEST OF MR. ABINANTI.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 4, 2022 AS NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY

LEGISLATIVE DISABILITIES AWARENESS DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ABINANTI ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MR. ABINANTI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AS THE

CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE ON PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND ON BEHALF OF

MY VERY HARD-WORKING COMMITTEE, I AM PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THAT

TODAY WE ARE CELEBRATING THE 42ND ANNUAL LEGISLATIVE DISABILITIES

AWARENESS DAY. I AM HONORED AND PROUD TO BE PART OF TODAY'S EVENT

WHERE WE ARE ABLE TO FOCUS ON ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE

DISABILITY COMMUNITY. TODAY IN HONOR OF DISABILITIES AWARENESS DAY,

WE PLAN TO TAKE UP A RESOLUTION WHICH IS RIGHT BEFORE US AND A NUMBER

OF BILLS THAT WILL IMPROVE THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES IN

MEANINGFUL WAYS. OUR LEGISLATIVE PACKAGE THAT FOLLOWS THIS RESOLUTION

EMPHASIZES INCLUSION, INTEGRATION AND INDEPENDENCE FOR THE DISABILITY

COMMUNITY. THOSE WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, INTELLECTUAL

DISABILITIES, PHYSICAL DISABILITIES. WHETHER THOSE PHYSICAL DISABILITIES

BE MOBILITY IMPAIRMENT, VISUAL IMPAIRMENT, HEARING IMPAIRMENT OR

SPEECH IMPAIRMENT. NEW YORK MUST SUPPORT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES

WHO HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE A GOOD QUALITY LIFE. THIS YEAR'S DISABILITY [SIC]

AWARENESS DAY MARKS A TURNING POINT IN NEW YORK. OUR BUDGET FOR

THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG TIME AND OUR LEGISLATION RECOGNIZE THE POTENTIAL

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND THE BENEFITS WE ALL GAIN FROM HELPING

THEM OVERCOME THEIR CHALLENGES. AS THE RESOLUTION SAYS, WE ARE

CONCENTRATING ON -- HERE WE GO -- PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES, THEIR

FAMILIES AND ADVOCATES WHO DESERVE OUR RECOGNITION AS THEY REALIZE

THEIR GOALS OF INTEGRATION, INDEPENDENCE AND EQUALITY IN OUR

COMMUNITIES AND SOCIETY AT-LARGE. AND WE ARE FOCUSING ON THE

BENEFITS OF THEIR SOCIAL, ECONOMIC, EDUCATIONAL AND OTHER CONTRIBUTIONS

TO OUR SOCIETY.

SO WE RESOLVE TODAY TO ASK THE GOVERNOR TO DECLARE IN

A SUITABLY-ENGROSSED RESOLUTION THAT SHE DECLARE MAY 4TH TO BE NEW

YORK STATE ASSEMBLY LEGISLATIVE DISABILITIES AWARENESS DAY. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. BROWN ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. A. BROWN: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE RESOLUTION.

AS THE RANKING MEMBER OF THE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES [SIC], I WANT TO

THANK AND APPLAUD THE SPONSOR, MR. ABINANTI, FOR BRINGING THIS

IMPORTANT ISSUE TO THE FOREFRONT. AS THE ASSEMBLYMEMBER TO REPLACE

MISSY MILLER, A PERSON THAT HAS LIVED AND FOUGHT THIS FIGHT, I SHALL

CONTINUE HER EFFORTS. WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO SINCE THE AMERICAN

DISABILITIES ACT WAS PASSED IN 1990 AND I WILL WORK HARD TO MOVE

FORTH ALL OF HER EFFORTS.

THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR, MR. ASSEMBLYMAN.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. WEPRIN ON THE RESOLUTION.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. WEPRIN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE IN

SUPPORT OF THIS RESOLUTION. I'M A FORMER CHAIR OF THE ASSEMBLY TASK

FORCE ON PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES WHICH I DID FOR THREE YEARS BEFORE

SPEAKER HEASTIE ELEVATED THAT POSITION TO A FULL COMMITTEE ABLY CHAIRED

BY THE SPONSOR OF THIS RESOLUTION, TOM ABINANTI. I'VE BEEN AN ADVOCATE

FOR DISABILITY RIGHTS MY WHOLE LIFE. THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE THAT

THE GOVERNOR IS RECOGNIZING IN THIS RESOLUTION. I WAS VERY PROUD TO

MARCH IN THE FIRST DISABILITY PRIDE PARADE IN NEW YORK CITY WITH

FORMER SENATOR TOM HARKIN, THE -- THE PRIME SPONSOR OF THE

AMERICANS WITH DISABILITY [SIC] ACT, AND I STRONGLY SUPPORT THIS

RESOLUTION.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. BURDICK.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I FIRST

WANT TO THANK THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE ON PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES,

TOM ABINANTI, FOR HIS PERSEVERANCE, FOR HIS LEADERSHIP AND FOR HIS

TIRELESS EFFORTS TO ADVOCATE FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES. I ALSO WANT TO

THANK THE SPEAKER AND OUR VERY ABLE STAFF FOR PUTTING TOGETHER TODAY'S

GROUP OF BILLS THAT WILL BE VOTED ON SHORTLY. AND I WOULD WANT TO

MENTION, THOUGH, THAT THIS IS A START. LAST FALL IN MY CAPACITY AS CHAIR

OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE WITH

DISABILITIES, I JOINED WITH OTHER CHAIRS, CHAIR ABINANTI AND CHAIR

LATOYA JOYNER FOR HEARINGS ON BARRIERS FOR EMPLOYMENT FOR WITH PEOPLE

WITH DISABILITIES. AND AT THAT TIME WE VOWED THAT WE WOULD DO

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

EVERYTHING WE COULD TO REDUCE THOSE BARRIERS AND TO INCREASE

OPPORTUNITIES. SO SOME OF THOSE BILLS ARE RIGHT HERE IN THIS PACKAGE OF

BILLS, AND I THINK THIS IS A TERRIFIC START. AND I WAS VERY PLEASED THAT

GOVERNOR HOCHUL IN HER STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS NOT ONLY MENTIONED

PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, BUT THE NEED TO ADDRESS EMPLOYMENT

OPPORTUNITIES.

SO AGAIN, I STRONGLY SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION AND IT'S --

IT'S JUST A GREAT FIRST START. WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO. THANK YOU

VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MS. SIMON ON THE RESOLUTION.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AND I, TOO,

WANT TO COMMEND MR. ABINANTI FOR HIS WORK CHAIRING THE DISABILITIES

COMMITTEE AND SPONSORING TODAY'S RESOLUTION, AND TO THE MEMBERS OF

THE COMMITTEE. DISABILITY RIGHTS HAS BEEN A PART OF MY LIFE SINCE I

STARTED GRADUATE SCHOOL, AND I, TOO, HAVE BEEN VERY INVOLVED AT ALL

LEVELS WITH REGARD TO PASSAGE AND AMENDMENTS TO THE ADA AND

PRACTICING IN THAT FIELD. AND I'M VERY EXCITED THAT THE SPEAKER -- AND I

WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER FOR CREATING THIS AS A FULL COMMITTEE,

BECAUSE THIS IS AN AREA THAT HAS REALLY NEEDED THE ATTENTION OF A FULL

COMMITTEE. AND I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THE

COMMITTEE AND TO MOVING THE BALL FORWARD TO ADVANCE DISABILITY RIGHTS

IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IN A MORE FULL AND COMPREHENSIVE WAY THAN

WE HAVE IN THE PAST.

SO I STAND FIRMLY IN SUPPORT. THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. EPSTEIN.

MR. EPSTEIN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I STAND IN

SUPPORT OF THIS RESOLUTION, AND I REALLY WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR, CHAIR

ABINANTI, FOR BRINGING THIS DAY TO COME TOGETHER. IT'S BEEN AN

IMPORTANT YEAR TO FIGHT FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES. THE

UNEMPLOYMENT RATES AROUND THE COUNTRY FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES

ARE THROUGH THE ROOF. OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES NEED

REAL ATTENTION. AND IT'S A REALLY AMAZING PLACE HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY

WHERE WE TAKE THESE ISSUES ON WITHOUT RESERVATION. WE WORK ON BILLS,

WE HAVE (INAUDIBLE). WE FIGHT TOGETHER TO ENSURE REAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR

PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS DAY IS ABOUT. THAT'S WHAT

THIS RESOLUTION REPRESENTS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FIGHT FOR WITH

THIS PACKAGE OF BILLS.

I APPLAUD THE SPONSOR. I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO VOTE

IN FAVOR OF THIS RESOLUTION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. SALKA.

MR. SALKA: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE RESOLUTION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION,

SIR.

MR. SALKA: I WANT TO THANK THE ASSEMBLYMAN FOR

BRINGING THIS FORWARD. AS A PARENT OF A YOUNG MAN THAT WAS DIAGNOSED

WITH ASPERGER'S SYNDROME 21 YEARS AGO, WE UNDERSTAND THE

CHALLENGES. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF JOYS, THERE'S A LOT OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THERE'S SO MUCH THAT CAN BE LEARNED BY THE RESOLVE THAT PEOPLE WITH

DISABILITIES HAVE. AND I REMEMBER YEARS AGO WHEN THE ASSEMBLYMAN

AND I WORKED TOGETHER ON THE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES' COMMITTEE ON

SPECIAL -- SPECIAL NEEDS, AND WE'VE COME A LONG, LONG WAY SINCE THEN,

BUT OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE A LONG, LONG WAY TO GO.

SO I JUST WANT TO PRAISE HIM AND THANK HIM, AND I

WANT TO THANK THIS BODY FOR BEING ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE NEEDS OF

THOSE WHO HAVE THOSE SPECIAL NEEDS. AND AGAIN, I SAID WE HAVE A LOT

OF WORK TO DO, AND THROUGH THIS RESOLUTION WE CAN UNDERSTAND OR BEGIN

TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO TAKE CARE OF THIS VERY, VERY

VALUABLE PART OF OUR SOCIETY. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. LEMONDES ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE

RESOLUTION. I STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH THE -- WITH THE SPONSOR AS WELL AS

ALL COLLEAGUES LEFT AND RIGHT ON BEHALF OF THIS RESOLUTION AND ITS

IMPORTANCE AND SIGNIFICANCE TO US AS A SOCIETY. I WANT TO MENTION, I

HAVE BEEN PERSONALLY TOUCHED AS A CHILD K THROUGH 12 WITH SOMEBODY

SEVERELY DISABLED IN THE FAMILY OF A FRIEND WHOM I GREW UP WITH.

WHOM I WAS AFRAID OF AS A YOUNG CHILD AND GREW TO RESPECT AND THEN

LATER UNDERSTAND. WE CAN NEVER DO ENOUGH FOR THE FAMILIES, BOTH

NUCLEAR AND EXTENDED AND COMMUNITIES OF DISABLED PEOPLE, WHETHER

THEY'RE CHILDREN OR ADULTS. I AM GLAD TO SEE THE AWARENESS THAT THIS IS

BRINGING. I AM GLAD THAT WE ARE ALL A PART OF IT, AND AGAIN, MR.

ABINANTI, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. CAHILL ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. CAHILL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

I, TOO, WANT TO JOIN MY COLLEAGUES TODAY IN APPLAUDING THE CHAIR OF THE

NEWLY-FORMED COMMITTEE ON PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES FOR BRINGING

FORTH THE AGENDA. BUT I STAND FOR A VERY DIFFERENT REASON THAN MY

COLLEAGUES DO. MR. ABINANTI IS THE FIRST CHAIR OF THIS COMMITTEE, BOTH

THE TASK FORCE AND THE COMMITTEE, WHO HAD TO PRESENT THIS DAY

WITHOUT THE ABLE ASSISTANCE OF KIM HILL, WHO USED TO CHAIR -- USED TO

BE THE DIRECTOR OF OUR TASK FORCE ON PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, BUT WAS

FORTUNATELY CHOSEN BY GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL TO BE THE FIRST-EVER

CHIEF DISABILITIES OFFICER IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. FOR 25 YEARS KIM

STOOD HERE -- SAT HERE ON THE FLOOR AND HELPED US FORMULATE AN AGENDA

THAT -- THAT REALLY REPRESENTED REMARKABLE ADVANCES FOR PEOPLE WITH

DISABILITIES IN OUR STATE, BROUGHT TO OUR HOUSE A UNIQUE SENSIBILITY THAT

SHE IS NOW BRINGING TO THE ENTIRE STATE OF NEW YORK. I REALLY DO HAVE

TO APPLAUD GOVERNOR HOCHUL FOR -- FOR STEPPING OUT AND DOING

SOMETHING VERY UNIQUE IN ELEVATING THE ISSUES SURROUNDING THE

COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES TO THE LEVEL OF CABINET SO THAT

THERE'S A PERSON WHO IS GOING TO BE COORDINATING THESE THINGS AT THE

STATE LEVEL. I WISH KIM AND MR. ABINANTI GREAT SUCCESS IN ADVANCING

THE AGENDA THAT THIS HOUSE IS TAKEN THE LEADERSHIP ON EVERY YEAR FOR THE

PAST QUARTER OF A CENTURY.

AND WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. GOODELL ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. MY WIFE IS THE

TREASURER OF A LOCAL RESOURCE CENTER WHOSE ENTIRE FOCUS IS SERVING THOSE

WITH DISABILITIES. ONE OF MANY ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF MY WIFE FOR WHICH

I'M VERY PROUD. BUT WHILE IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE PASS THIS RESOLUTION

AND I'M IN FULL SUPPORT OF IT, CERTAINLY, AND HONOR THOSE WITH

DISABILITIES, WE ALSO NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE A REAL

RESPONSIBILITY, AND THAT IS TO ENSURE THAT THOSE WHO ARE CARING AND

HELPING THOSE WITH DISABILITIES CAN MAXIMIZE THEIR POTENTIAL HAVE THE

RESOURCES AND THE SUPPORT FROM EACH OF US TO ENSURE THAT THEY CAN

ACCOMPLISH THEIR GOAL. AND I KNOW ALL OF US FIND IT EXTRAORDINARILY

GRATIFYING WHEN WE HEAR STORIES AND EXAMPLES OF THOSE WITH

DISABILITIES WHO HAVE OVERCOME THOSE DISABILITIES AND HAVE MAXIMIZED

THEIR POTENTIAL. WE LOVE TO HEAR THOSE STORIES. BUT WE ALSO NEED TO

REALIZE THAT THOSE ACCOMPLISHMENTS ARE DIFFICULT TO ACCOMPLISH WHEN

WE DON'T PAY OUR DIRECT CARE STAFF AN APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF PAY AND WE

DON'T SUPPORT OUR ORGANIZATIONS WITH APPROPRIATE RESOURCES.

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. ABINANTI, AND I KNOW

YOU ARE ALSO A GREAT CHAMPION OF ENSURING THAT OUR GOOD WORKS TODAY

ARE BACKED BY GOOD DEEDS THAT MAKE THIS RESOLUTION A REALITY. THANK

YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. LUNSFORD.

MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS RESOLUTION AND STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH

OUR COMMITTEE, WITH OUR GOVERNOR AND WITH THE ROBUST AND ACTIVE

COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND THEIR FAMILIES WHO SUPPORT

THEM IN MONROE COUNTY. FOR TEN YEARS, PRIOR TO TAKING OFFICE, I WAS AN

ATTORNEY WHO WORKED CLOSELY WITH PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, AND I CAN

TELL YOU WHAT AN INSPIRATION IT IS TO GET TO REPRESENT THOSE PEOPLE HERE

IN A LEGISLATIVE BODY THAT TAKES THOSE ISSUES SERIOUSLY. THAT AFFORDS

EVERY NEW YORKER THE DIGNITY THEY DESERVE AND FIGHTS TO MAKE SURE

THAT EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO THE RESOURCES THEY NEED TO GROW AND THRIVE.

I'M VERY PROUD TO STAND HERE TODAY TO MAKE SURE THAT

EVERYONE FROM OUR INFANTS THROUGH OUR SENIORS KNOW THAT THEY HAVE

CHAMPIONS IN GOVERNMENT WHO ARE WORKING TO MAKE SURE THEIR

CAREGIVERS ARE WELL PAID, TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO SCHOOL,

TO HOUSING AND TO EMPLOYMENT SO THAT THEY CAN BOTH PARTICIPATE IN OUR

COMMUNITY AND BE AN INSPIRATION TO OTHERS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR BRINGING

THIS RESOLUTION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 813, RULES

AT THE REQUEST OF MRS. BARRETT.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 4, 2022 AS VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS'

APPRECIATION DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 814, RULES

AT THE REQUEST OF MR. DURSO.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 4, 2022 AS SKILLED TRADES DAY IN THE

STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DURSO ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT TO

THANK THE GOVERNOR FOR MEMORIALIZING THIS RESOLUTION FOR SKILLED

TRADES DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. THESE TALENTED AND

HARD-WORKING MEN AND WOMEN ARE AN ASSET TO NEW YORK STATE. THIS

DAY IS NOT ONLY A DAY TO RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT THE BENEFIT OF SKILLED

TRADES, BUT TO BRING AWARENESS AND THE NEED FOR MORE SKILLED TRADES IN

OUR STATE. CURRENTLY ALMOST 53 PERCENT OF ALL SKILLED LABOR ARE REACHING

RETIREMENT AGE IN THIS STATE. IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO TRAIN THE NEXT

GENERATION OF MEN AND WOMEN, BUT TO ALSO INFORM AND EDUCATE OUR

STUDENTS ON THE FUTURE PATH TO GOOD-PAYING JOBS THAT THEY HAVE BEFORE

THEM. THROUGH PROGRAMS LIKE BOCES AND OTHER CT PROGRAMS THERE'S

A PATH AND THE ABILITY TO LEARN A TRADE AND TO START A GREAT-PAYING CAREER

MUCH QUICKER THAN THE TRADITIONAL COLLEGE ROUTE. WE NEED TO RETAIN AND

RECRUIT OUR NEXT GENERATION OF SKILLED LABOR THAT NOT ONLY STARTS HERE IN

THIS CHAMBER TODAY, BUT WE NEED TO SHOW OUR STUDENTS IN OUR SCHOOLS

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THAT THERE IS MORE THAN ONE OPTION. AND THIS IS SO IMPORTANT TO ALL OUR

STUDENTS IN ALL OUR COMMUNITIES FROM ALL BACKGROUNDS TO UNDERSTAND

THAT THESE PROGRAMS ARE AVAILABLE, AND IT IS OUR JOB IN THIS CHAMBER TO

MAKE SURE THAT THESE PROGRAMS ARE AVAILABLE FOR OUR STUDENTS IN THE

FUTURE.

SO I THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR SPEAKING ON THIS.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

ON THE -- OH, MR. SAYEGH.

MR. SAYEGH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ON THE

RESOLUTION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION,

SIR.

MR. SAYEGH: I ALSO RISE TO -- TO COMMEND THE

SPONSOR AND TO STATE THAT MANY YEARS AGO LOOKING AT THE EVOLUTION OF

OUR EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM, SKILLED TRADE PROGRAMS ALL ACROSS THE STATE

GENERALLY FOCUS ON STUDENTS THAT WEREN'T LOOKING TO GO TO COLLEGE,

WEREN'T LOOKING TO REALLY EXPAND THEIR ACADEMIC KNOWLEDGE. AND IT

WAS REALLY A WAY FOR YEARS TO GET AN AVERAGE STUDENT OR A BELOW-

AVERAGE STUDENT TO SAY, WELL, LET'S GO INTO A TRADE AND THERE REALLY

WASN'T MANY SKILLS OTHER THAN MANUAL LABOR THAT WAS TIED INTO IT. BUT AS

TIME WENT ON, I CAN TELL YOU FROM THE EDUCATIONAL PERSPECTIVE, SKILLED

TRADES BECAME A -- A NEW PHENOMENON IN EDUCATION, AND TECHNICAL AND

TRADE SCHOOLS THROUGHOUT THE STATE BECAME SOME OF THE

HIGHEST-PERFORMING PROGRAMS. AND SKILLED LABOR, UNLIKE THE PAST,

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

REQUIRED AN EXTENSIVE AMOUNT OF SCIENTIFIC AND MATHEMATICAL AND OTHER

SKILLS THAT WERE BECOMING MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE NEW JOBS AND NEW

TECHNOLOGY THAT WE'RE FACED WITH TODAY.

SO I COMMEND THE SPONSOR, AND I WANTED JUST TO STATE

THE URGENCY AND THE IMPORTANCE OF SUPPORTING TRADE SKILLED PROGRAMS,

EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS THAT FOCUS ON CONTINUING TECHNICAL EDUCATION AND

BOCES AND OTHER SERVICES THAT PROVIDE THESE SERVICES. THANK YOU

VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. ANGELINO ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I

COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS -- THIS BILL AND HIGHLIGHTING IT AND

BRINGING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF EVERYONE BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE IS

DESTINED FOR COLLEGE. AND EVERYONE IS DESTINED TO HAVE SOME SORT OF

ISSUE IN THEIR HOME WHERE THEY NEED A SKILLED LABORER, AND I KNOW IN

THE AREA I LIVE IN IT'S DIFFICULT TO FIND THESE. THIS IS A WAY TO KEEP US

SOME YOUNG PEOPLE AND ALSO SOME TRANSITIONING FROM OTHER -- OTHER

OCCUPATIONS, KEEP THEM IN NEW YORK AND KEEP THEM IN BUSINESS AND

HELPING UPSTATE THRIVE.

I APPRECIATE THAT THIS HAPPENED AND I SUPPORT IT

WHOLEHEARTEDLY AND I THANK MR. DURSO, AND MAY THE 4TH BE WITH YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 815, RULES

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

AT THE REQUEST OF MR. BYRNE.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 1-7, 2022 AS PROFESSIONAL MUNICIPAL

CLERKS WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 816, RULES

AT THE REQUEST OF MR. THIELE.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY, 2022 AS LUPUS AWARENESS MONTH IN

THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 817, RULES

AT THE REQUEST OF MR. JONES.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY, 2022 AS CYSTIC FIBROSIS AWARENESS

MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 818, RULES

AT THE REQUEST OF MRS. GUNTHER.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY, 2022 AS MENTAL HEALTH AWARENESS

MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 819, RULES

AT THE REQUEST OF MS. HUNTER.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY, 2022 AS BUILDING SAFETY MONTH IN THE

STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 820, RULES

AT THE REQUEST OF MR. DESTEFANO.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY, 2022 AS WILDFIRE SAFETY AWARENESS

MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DESTEFANO ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MR. DESTEFANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

BEFORE I BEGIN I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO OFFER MY CONDOLENCES AND

PRAYERS TO THE FAMILY OF NEW YORK CITY FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY KLEIN OF

QUEENS, NEW YORK WHO DIED TRAGICALLY WHEN A CEILING COLLAPSED ON

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

HIM AS HE WAS BATTLING A HOUSE FIRE IN BROOKLYN A FEW WEEKS AGO. HIS

DEVOTION IN SERVING OTHER REMINDS US HOW VALUABLE ARE THOSE WHO

DEDICATE THEIR LIVES TO EMERGENCY SERVICES AND HOW DIFFERENT OUR WORLD

WOULD BE WITHOUT THEM. TODAY I'M PROPOSING TO DESIGNATE THE MONTH

OF MAY AS WILDFIRE SAFETY AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW

YORK. WHILE BRAVE FIREFIGHTERS SUCH AS TIMOTHY KLEIN RISK THEIR LIVES

EVERY DAY TO EXTINGUISH FIRES, THE KEY TO FIGHTING FIRES BEGINS BEFORE

THEY EVEN START. FOR THIS, EVERYONE HAS A ROLE TO PLAY. FIRE SAFETY AND

RISK REDUCTION IS CRITICAL IN SAVING LIVES AND PROTECTING PROPERTY. THERE

IS PLENTY WE CAN DO DAY IN AND DAY OUT TO KEEP OUR -- KEEP FIRES FROM

STARTING IN THE FIRST PLACE AND ELIMINATING THEIR IMPACT WHEN THEY DO

OCCUR. DEVELOPING AN EMERGENCY ACTION PLAN WHEN EVERYONE WITHIN

THE HOME, INCLUDING DETAILS FOR HANDLING YOUR PETS AND OTHER LARGE

ANIMALS OR LIVESTOCK. EVERYONE KNOWS YOU NEED A SMOKE ALARM TO

PROTECT YOUR HOME. BUSINESSES AND LOVED ONES. CHECK THEM ANNUALLY.

WE SHOULD BE CHECKING THEM EVERY TIME WE CHANGE OUR CLOCKS BACK

AND FORTH IN THE FALL AND IN THE SPRING. MAKE SURE THEY ARE WORKING.

COUNTLESS LIVES ARE LOST EVERY YEAR BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE WORKING

SMOKE DETECTORS IN THEIR HOMES. REMOVE FLAMMABLE FOLIAGE, TRASH AND

OTHER DEBRIS FROM YOUR PROPERTY. THIS WILL NOT -- THIS WILL NOT ONLY

REDUCE THE RISK OF FIRE, BUT WILL ALSO GIVE EMERGENCY PERSONNEL BETTER

ACCESS WHEN THERE'S A PROBLEM. SCREEN OFF AREAS BENEATH DECKS AND

PORCHES TO KEEP THE AREAS CLEAN. THESE CAN BECOME TRAPS FOR BURNING

EMBERS AND INCREASE THE CHANCE OF FIRE TRANSFERRING INTO YOUR HOME.

MAKE SURE YOUR HOUSE NUMBER IS CLEARLY VISIBLE SO RESPONDERS CAN FIND

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

IT IN AN EMERGENCY. BEFORE THE FIRE PROTECTION AND PREVENTION

REDUCTION STRUCTURE IGNITABILITY, FIRE-RESISTANT MATERIALS, THE MORE

FIRE-RESISTING THE ROOFING MATERIAL, THE BETTER. THE ROOF IS THE PORTION

OF THE HOUSE THAT IS MOST VULNERABLE TO IGNITION BY FALLING EMBERS

KNOWN AS FIRE BRANDS. METAL ROOFS AFFORD THE BEST PROTECTION AGAINST

IGNITION FROM FALLING EMBERS. SLATE OR TILES ARE ALSO NON-COMBUSTIBLE,

AND CLASS A ASPHALT SHINGLES ARE RECOMMENDED AS WELL. THE MOST

DANGEROUS TYPE OF ROOFING MATERIALS IS WOOD SHINGLES. REMOVING

DEBRIS FROM ROOF GUTTERS AND DOWNSPOUTS AT LEAST TWICE A YEAR WILL HELP

PREVENT FIRE ALONG WITH KEEPING THEM FUNCTIONING PROPERLY. SLIDING --

EXCUSE ME -- SLIDING NON-COMBUSTIBLE MATERIALS ARE IDEAL FOR THE HOME

EXTERIOR, PREFERRED MATERIALS INCLUDING STUCCO, CEMENT, BRICK AND

MASONRY. WINDOWS -- DOUBLE-PANED WINDOWS ARE MOST RESISTANT TO

HEAT AND FLAMES. SMALLER WINDOWS TEND TO HOLD UP BETTER THAN THE

FRAMES THAT ARE LARGER. TEMPERED GLASS IS BEST, PARTICULARLY FOR

SKYLIGHTS BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT (INAUDIBLE).

SO I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK

ON THIS RESOLUTION, MR. SPEAKER, AND I THANK GOVERNOR HOCHUL FOR

MAKING MAY WILDFIRE AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

PAGE 15, CALENDAR NO. 125, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03409-A, CALENDAR

NO. 125, LAVINE, SEAWRIGHT, SANTABARBARA, BUTTENSCHON, OTIS, WEPRIN,

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

JACOBSON, MEEKS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

PROVIDING A TAX CREDIT FOR UNIVERSAL VISITABILITY; AND PROVIDING FOR THE

REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 3409-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. LAVINE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. LAVINE: THANKS, MR. SPEAKER. THE CONCEPT

OF VISITABILITY, THAT IS MAKING LOCATIONS MORE ACCESSIBLE TO THOSE WHO

NEED A LITTLE EXTRA SPECIAL HELP -- THAT'S THE DISABLED, PEOPLE LIKE ME

WHO ARE OLDER -- IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT'S A BURGEONING NATIONAL TREND,

AND I'M GLAD TO SEE THIS SUPPORT. AND I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO

HAS VOTED FOR THIS. MY COLLEAGUES OFF ON THE LEFT AND MY COLLEAGUES OFF

ON THE RIGHT - AND I KNOW I'M USING THE WRONG HANDS - AND THE REST OF

US WHO ARE SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE.

THANKS MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 16, CALENDAR NO. 134, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03960-A, CALENDAR

NO. 134, CUSICK, LUPARDO, BLANKENBUSH, COLTON, WEPRIN, STERN,

WALSH, HUNTER, BUTTENSCHON, OTIS, SANTABARBARA, REILLY, SEAWRIGHT,

FALL, PALMESANO, STIRPE, MANKTELOW, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS, JACOBSON,

MEEKS, GRIFFIN, LAWLER, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW AND

THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A SMALL BUSINESS TAX CREDIT

FOR THE EMPLOYMENT OF DISABLED PERSONS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL

OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 3960-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

I'D LIKE TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HIS TENACITY IN CONTINUING TO BRING THIS

BILL FORWARD. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT BILL. I'D LIKE TO THANK THE SPEAKER

FOR GETTING IT TO THE FLOOR AGAIN THIS YEAR. THIS BILL HAS ENJOYED

UNANIMOUS OR NEAR UNANIMOUS SUPPORT IN THIS BODY FOR A NUMBER OF

YEARS, BUT IN MY ESTIMATION IT HAS BEEN SHAME -- SHAMEFULLY VETOED BY

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE PREVIOUS GOVERNOR BOTH IN 2018 AND 2019. WE JUST HAD A SERIES OF

RESOLUTIONS THAT WE ALL -- MANY OF US SPOKE ON, HAVING TO DO WITH THE

NEED TO ENCOURAGE INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES TO LIVE THEIR BEST LIFE,

AND THE BIG PART OF THAT IS BEING ABLE TO BE GAINFULLY EMPLOYED. THEY

JUST RELEASED STATISTICS WITHIN THE LAST FEW YEARS -- OR WITHIN THE LAST FEW

DAYS. THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT GAP BETWEEN THOSE UNEMPLOYMENT CLAIMS,

THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE READY TO WORK, AND THE HUGE NUMBER OF

AVAILABLE -- AVAILABLE JOB OPENINGS. THERE'S A HUGE DISCONNECT THAT WE

NEED TO TRY TO BRIDGE WITH EFFORTS FROM THIS CHAMBER AND FROM THIS

STATE. WE TALKED ABOUT DURING COVID THE GREAT RESIGNATION OF

INDIVIDUALS. WE HAVE A LOT OF JOBS THAT NEED TO BE FILLED. WE NEED TO

ENCOURAGE SMALL BUSINESSES AND BUSINESSES IN OUR STATE TO TAKE A

CHANCE ON AN INDIVIDUAL WITH DISABILITIES WHO WILL DO -- WILL DO AN

EXCELLENT JOB AND WILL FIND GREAT WORTH AND SATISFACTION FROM

EMPLOYMENT.

I WANT TO JUST QUICKLY RECOGNIZE INDIVIDUALS IN MY

DISTRICT LIKE LIFESONG, AIM SERVICES, SARATOGA BRIDGES, SCHENECTADY

COUNTY ARC AND OUR SARATOGA CHAMBER THAT YESTERDAY OR THE DAY

BEFORE HOSTED WHAT WAS KNOWN AS A REVERSE JOB FAIR TO TRY TO MATCH

INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES WITH EMPLOYERS WHO ARE LOOKING FOR

PEOPLE TO WORK. THINGS LIKE THIS CREDIT, WHICH IS -- WHICH IS A DROP IN

THE BUCKET, HONESTLY, IT WOULD REQUIRE -- IT WOULD PROJECT TO HAVE A

FISCAL IMPLICATION OF A DECREASE IN STATE TAX REVENUE OF $5 MILLION

STARTING NEXT YEAR. IN THE CONTEXT OF $220 BILLION STATE BUDGET, I

SUBMIT THAT THAT'S A DROP IN THE BUCKET. IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

AND I'M VERY PROUD TO SUPPORT IT.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MS. WALSH IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

MY VOTE. I'D LIKE TO ADD MY VOICE TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS

LEGISLATION. IT'S WIDELY KNOWN THAT THERE ARE TONS OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN

AND AROUND OUR COMMUNITIES AND OUR SOCIETY WHO ARE DISABLED, BUT

THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE UNABLE TO WORK AND UNABLE TO LIVE A

FULL LIFE. THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION ENCOURAGES EMPLOYERS TO HIRE THEM

AND ALLOW THEM TO USE THEIR FULL POTENTIALS. AND AGAIN, I THINK IT'S -- IT'S

VERY, VERY CREDIBLE AND I REMOVE MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 23, CALENDAR NO. 232, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07121, CALENDAR NO.

232, KELLES, LUPARDO, JACOBSON, SANTABARBARA, MEEKS ABINANTI, OTIS.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAW, IN RELATION TO WAIVING THE

STATE'S SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY TO CLAIMS UNDER THE AMERICANS WITH

DISABILITIES ACT OF 1990, THE FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT OF 1938, THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

AGE DISCRIMINATION IN EMPLOYMENT ACT OF 1967 AND THE FAMILY AND

MEDICAL LEAVE ACT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MS. KELLES.

MS. KELLES: I'LL MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS AS THOROUGH

AS POSSIBLE TO READ. A SUMMARY OF THIS BILL WOULD WAIVE THE STATE OF

NEW YORK'S SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY WITH REGARD TO ALL CLAIMS, ACTIONS AND

PROCEEDINGS BROUGHT IN REGARDS TO THE FOLLOWING FEDERAL LAWS: THE

AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT OF 1990, THE FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT

OF 1938, THE AGE DISCRIMINATION IN EMPLOYMENT ACT OF 1967 AND THE

FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE ACT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. KELLES, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. KELLES: INDEED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. KELLES. THIS BILL

SPECIFICALLY APPLIES TO FOUR FEDERAL BILLS THAT WOULD NOW BECOME

APPLICABLE NOT JUST FOR THE STATE BUT TO EVERY LOCAL GOVERNMENT, SCHOOL

DISTRICT, FIRE DEPARTMENT THAT'S A MUNICIPAL ENTITY. BUT I WANTED TO JUST

GO THROUGH SOME OF THESE TO SEE WHAT THE ACTUAL RAMIFICATION WOULD BE

IN PRACTICE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MS. KELLES: SURE.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, ONE OF THEM THAT YOU

MENTIONED WAS THE FEDERAL FAIR STANDARDS LABOR ACT [SIC] OF 1938.

IT'S ONLY BEEN AROUND NOW FOR JUST UNDER 90 YEARS.

MS. KELLES: GIVE OR TAKE.

MR. GOODELL: AS -- AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IT COVERS A

NUMBER OF FACTORS FOR EMPLOYEES ENGAGED IN AND PRODUCING GOODS FOR

INTERSTATE COMMERCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. KELLES: CORRECT. THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING.

MR. GOODELL: I APOLOGIZE, I COULDN'T HEAR.

MS. KELLES: THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING, YES.

MR. GOODELL: ARE THERE ANY STATE OR LOCAL

EMPLOYEES THAT ARE ENGAGED IN PRODUCING GOODS FOR INTERSTATE

COMMERCE?

MS. KELLES: I DO NOT HAVE A LIST OF EMPLOYERS, BUT

I WOULD IMAGINE.

MR. GOODELL: I -- I -- TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I'M

NOT AWARE THAT THE STATE OR LOCAL EMPLOYEES ARE PRODUCING ANY GOODS

THAT ARE BEING SOLD IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE.

MS. KELLES: YES, BUT IT DOESN'T PRECLUDE THAT THAT

WOULD NOT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. THIS BILL IS NOT ABOUT DETERMINING

WHETHER OR NOT WE COVER SOMETHING BASED ON THE REALITY THAT WE HAVE

NOW. IT IS BASED ON THE POTENTIAL REALITY AT SOME POINT.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. AND THE FEDERAL FAIR LABOR

STANDARDS ACT REQUIRES COMPLIANCE WITH THE NATIONAL MINIMUM WAGE,

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

OVERTIME PAY AND LIMITATIONS ON MINORS. AM I CORRECT THAT NEW YORK

STATE HAS MUCH, MUCH HIGHER STANDARDS NOW THAN ANYTHING CONTAINED

IN THE FEDERAL FAIR STANDARDS ACT AS IT RELATES TO THOSE ISSUES?

MS. KELLES: THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, I NOTED THAT THIS ALSO APPLIES

TO THE AGE DISCRIMINATION IN EMPLOYMENT ACT OF 1967, WHICH

PROHIBITS DISCRIMINATION AGAINST PERSONS 40 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER.

DOESN'T NEW YORK STATE ALREADY HAVE VERY EXTENSIVE STATUTORY AND

REGULATORY PROVISIONS PROHIBITING AGE DISCRIMINATION?

MS. KELLES: THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE IT ALSO APPLIES TO THE FEDERAL

FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE ACT, EXTENDING THOSE PROVISIONS TO STATE

AND LOCAL EMPLOYEES. AM I ALSO CORRECT THAT WHEN IT COMES TO THE

FEDERAL FAMILY -- WELL, WHEN IT COMES TO FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE,

NEW YORK STATE'S BENEFITS ARE SUBSTANTIALLY MORE GENEROUS AND MORE

EXTENSIVE THAN THOSE IN THE FEDERAL LEVEL?

MS. KELLES: SINCE IT WAS ENACTED, I THINK THAT WAS

IN 2018, YES.

MR. GOODELL: SO THE ONLY -- SO IN TERMS OF THE

PRACTICAL RAMIFICATIONS IF WE WERE TO ADOPT THIS TODAY, IT WOULD HAVE

REALLY NO IMPACT ON ADOPTING THE FEDERAL STANDARD FOR FEDERAL FAIR

LABOR STANDARDS OR AGE DISCRIMINATION OR FAMILY LEAVE BECAUSE NEW

YORK HAS ALREADY GOT LEGISLATION THAT'S MUCH MORE EXTENSIVE AND

PROTECTIVE, IF YOU WILL, THAN THE FEDERAL STANDARDS ON AT LEAST THOSE

THREE BILLS, CORRECT?

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MS. KELLES: WELL, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING

TO NOTE IN THIS CASE IS IT IS -- JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS MORE EXPANSIVE

DOES NOT MEAN IT'S UNIVERSAL. THAT IS I THINK REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOTE,

FIRST OF ALL. AND SECONDLY, WITH RESPECT TO THE FAMILY LEAVE

SPECIFICALLY, SINCE THAT WAS ENACTED IN 2018 - I'LL BRING UP ANOTHER

DISCUSSION POINT THAT WE CERTAINLY WANT TO COVER - THIS IS RETROACTIVE TO

2001. SO IT WOULD CREATE COVERAGE WHERE THERE CURRENTLY IS NOT.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, IT ONLY APPLIES TO THE FEDERAL

FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE PROVISIONS RETROACTIVE NOT TO 2001, IT WOULD

ONLY APPLY IT RETROACTIVE TO WHEN THE FEDERAL STATUTE WAS ENACTED,

CORRECT?

MS. KELLES: I'M SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU. CAN YOU

SPEAK INTO THE MIC?

MR. GOODELL: CERTAINLY. JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, THIS

BILL WOULD SAY THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND STATE GOVERNMENT WOULD BE

SUBJECT TO THOSE FEDERAL STATUTES, BUT ONLY AS FAR BACK AS THE FEDERAL

STATUTE EXISTS, RIGHT? WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE NOT APPLYING THE FEDERAL

STATUTE ITSELF BEYOND WHEN THE FEDERAL STATUTE EVEN EXISTED, CORRECT?

MS. KELLES: RIGHT. WE ARE SAYING THAT WE ARE

WAIVING OUR PROTECTION TO CREATE PARITY SO THAT A PERSON WHO HAS

DISABILITY, WHO IS DISCRIMINATED OR IF THERE'S A SPECIFIC CASE WHERE THEY

HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGAINST FOR THESE ISSUES, WOULD HAVE THE

ABILITY TO BRING A CASE FORWARD.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, I THINK THE CONCERN THAT'S

BEEN RAISED CERTAINLY BY THE NEW YORK STATE CONFERENCE OF MAYORS

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

AND MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS AND OTHER PUBLIC OFFICIALS RELATE TO THE

RETROACTIVE APPLICABILITY OF THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES LAW, RIGHT?

MS. KELLES: MM-HMM.

MR. GOODELL: AND THIS BILL PURPORTS TO TAKE AND

APPLY THE AMERICAN WITH DISABILITIES LAW THAT REQUIRES, FOR EXAMPLE,

HANDICAPPED ACCESS TO BUILDINGS AND APPLY IT RETROACTIVELY TO THE YEAR

2000; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. KELLES: 2001, YES.

MR. GOODELL: 2001. SO IT GOES BACK 21 YEARS.

MS. KELLES: MM-HMM.

MR. GOODELL: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? DOES THAT

MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT IF A PERSON WHO WAS UNABLE TO GET INTO A

MUNICIPAL BUILDING IN 2001 CAN NOW SUE FOR DAMAGES?

MS. KELLES: SO, IT MEANS THAT SOMEONE WILL BE

ABLE TO BRING A CASE FORWARD. IT IS CASE-BY-CASE BASIS. SO IF -- YOU

KNOW, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THAT NEEDS TO

BE BROUGHT FORWARD IN A CASE FOR A CASE TO BE SUCCESSFUL. SO IF YOU'RE

ASKING WHETHER ANYONE WHO EXPERIENCED PERSONALLY AND HAS A MEMORY

OF EXPERIENCING SOMETHING PERSONALLY COULD THEREFORE BRING A SUIT

FORWARD AND HAVE THAT BE A LONGSTANDING SUIT, I THINK THAT THAT'S

UNREALISTIC. IF THERE IS A -- A PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE FOR A CASE TO

BE BROUGHT FORWARD, THEN YES, WE ARE SAYING THAT THAT CASE WOULD BE

ELIGIBLE TO BE BROUGHT FORWARD IN A COURT.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO I THINK I UNDERSTAND YOUR

-- YOUR ANSWER. I MEAN, AS A PRACTICING ATTORNEY FOR OVER 40 YEARS I

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

UNDERSTAND SOMETIMES CASES THAT ARE 21 YEARS OLD ARE DIFFICULT TO

PROVE. BUT IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR ANSWER, THIS WOULD ALLOW THAT CASE TO

PROCEED SO IT WASN'T DISMISSED AS A MATTER OF LAW.

MS. KELLES: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: DO WE HAVE AN ASSESSMENT OF WHAT

KIND OF POTENTIAL LIABILITY OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE FACING GOING BACK

21 YEARS ON THESE TYPES OF CASES?

MS. KELLES: SO ARE YOU SAYING -- ARE YOU ASKING IF

THEIR LIABILITY WOULD BE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IT WOULD BE OTHERWISE?

WHETHER IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT FOR THOSE RETROACTIVE CASES? NO, WHAT

WE'RE SAYING IS THAT WOULD BE THE SAME.

MR. GOODELL: AND HOW MUCH LIABILITY WOULD THE

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS NOW FACE AS A RESULT OF THIS LAW?

MS. KELLES: IT WOULD HAVE PARITY WITH WHAT THEY

WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR, DETERMINED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS BY THE

COURTS DEPENDING ON ANY DETERMINATION OR A VIOLATION OR -- OR

IDENTIFIED DISCRIMINATION.

MR. GOODELL: HAVE YOU CONSIDERED WHETHER OR

NOT WE CAN, CONSISTENT WITH CONSTITUTIONAL DUE PROCESS, GO BACK MORE

THAN TWO DECADES AND ESTABLISH LIABILITY ON THE PART OF LOCAL

GOVERNMENTS FOR ACTIONS THAT THEY WERE PERFORMING 20 YEARS AGO THAT

WERE ENTIRELY LEGAL AND LAWFUL BACK THEN?

MS. KELLES: NO, I AM NOT CONCERNED. I THINK THAT

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY PRECEDENCE FOR BILLS AND LAWS TO BE RETROACTIVE IN

NATURE. I THINK IN THIS CASE THERE IS NO SUBSTANTIVE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST TODAY,

YESTERDAY, TEN YEARS AGO IF THE COURT DETERMINES THAT THERE IS AND WAS,

IN FACT, DISCRIMINATION. THIS IS CREATING A CORRECTION, I WOULD SAY, PRIOR

TO 2001, THE CASE IN 2001, THE JUDICIAL CASE. STATE EMPLOYEES WERE

CAPABLE OF BRINGING COURT CASES FORWARD. AT THAT TIME IT WAS

DETERMINED THAT THERE WAS OVERREACH AND THAT STATES SHOULD DETERMINE

IT. AT NO POINT WAS IT EVER SUGGESTED THAT WE SHOULD THEREFORE NOT BE

PROTECTING PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. THIS IS

ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT WHAT SHOULD BE AT

QUESTION, BUT RATHER WHO SHOULD BE DETERMINING AND WHICH

GOVERNMENT BODY. SO WE ARE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THAT RIGHT AND THAT

REQUIREMENT AND THAT RESPONSIBILITY WAS GIVEN TO THE STATES, AND AT THAT

TIME WE DID NOT RECTIFY IT, WHICH WE SHOULD HAVE. THIS, AS YOU KNOW,

OF COURSE, THIS BILL HAS BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD EVERY SINGLE YEAR NOW FOR

21 YEARS. TWENTY YEARS? TWENTY-ONE YEARS. IT HAS PASSED THIS HOUSE

FOR THAT MANY YEARS, RECOGNIZING THE VALIDITY OF THAT STATEMENT.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I

APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

ON THE BILL.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: ON THE BILL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AS THE

SPONSOR NOTED, THIS IS LEGISLATION THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD FOR OVER

TWO DECADES AND IT NEVER PASSED BOTH HOUSES. AND WHEN IT WAS FIRST

BROUGHT FORWARD MORE THAN TWO DECADES AGO, HAVING AN EFFECTIVE DATE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

OF THE SAME YEAR IT WAS BROUGHT FORWARD MADE PERFECT SENSE. BECAUSE

WHAT IT WAS SAYING WAS FROM HERE ON FORWARD YOU'VE GOT TO COMPLY

WITH THESE STANDARDS. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS BILL

HAS NEVER BEEN CHANGED IN 21 YEARS. AND SO NOW WHAT WE'RE SAYING TO

EVERY SINGLE LOCAL GOVERNMENT, EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT, EVERY FIRE DISTRICT,

EVERY LOCAL GOVERNMENT, IF YOU WEREN'T COMPLYING WITH A LAW THAT

DIDN'T APPLY TO YOU 21 YEARS AGO YOU CAN BE SUED. NOW, THINK ABOUT

THAT. WHAT THIS BILL SAYS IS EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE IN FULL COMPLIANCE

WITH A LAW THAT APPLIED TO YOU 20 YEARS AGO, YOU CAN BE SUED. WHEN

WE TALK ABOUT MAKING A LAW RETROACTIVE FOR TWO DECADES AND IMPOSING

LIABILITY ON ALL OF OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, THIS IS THE MOTHER OF ALL

MANDATES. AS NOTED BY THE NEW YORK STATE CONFERENCE OF MAYORS

AND MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS, IF ENACTED THIS LEGISLATION WOULD REMOVE THE

PROTECTION THAT EXISTED FOR THE LAST 21 YEARS AND, QUOTE, OPEN THE FLOOD

GATES FOR POTENTIAL LITIGATION AGAINST LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. BOTH

MUNICIPALITIES AND THE STATE WILL BE FORCED TO SPEND TAXPAYER MONIES

DEFENDING THEMSELVES AGAINST AN AVALANCHE OF LITIGATION. AN

AVALANCHE THAT GOES BACK BY -- BY THE WAY, FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES.

AND SO WHAT DO OUR LOCAL OFFICIALS RECOMMEND? THEY RECOMMEND A

STRAIGHTFORWARD COMMONSENSE APPROACH. THEY SAID THE PUBLIC WOULD

BE BETTER SERVED BY WORKING WITH MUNICIPALITIES TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE

MOVING FORWARD TO PROVIDE GREATER ACCESS AND ACCOMMODATION

STANDARDS FOR THE DISABLED, AS OPPOSED TO SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

DEFENDING ITSELF AGAINST THINGS IT CAN'T CHANGE THAT OCCURRED IN THE PAST

THAT WERE VALID UNDER THE LAW AT THAT TIME.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

SO ALL OF US HERE SUPPORT THE DESIRE TO MAKE SURE THAT

ALL OF OUR PUBLIC BUILDINGS ARE ACCESSIBLE TO THE DISABLED AND

HANDICAPPED. WE ALL SUPPORT THAT. I HOPE THAT WE ALL RECOGNIZE THE

UNFAIRNESS OF IMPOSING RETROACTIVE LIABILITY GOING BACK OVER TWO

DECADES. AND I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION IF THE

EFFECTIVE DATE WERE IN THE FUTURE RATHER THAN DECADES BEFORE MANY OF US

WERE ACTUALLY HERE.

FOR THAT REASON I'LL RECOMMEND AGAINST THIS BILL, AND I

NOTE THAT IT HAD STRONG BIPARTISAN OPPOSITION LAST YEAR FOR THAT VERY

SAME REASON. HOPEFULLY AFTER 21 YEARS WE CAN AMEND THE BILL AND HAVE

IT PROSPECTIVE SO WE CAN MOVE FORWARD IN A THOUGHTFUL WAY. THANK

YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MR. BROWN.

MR. A. BROWN: MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD TO A QUESTION?

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. KELLES: YES, OF COURSE.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS

IMPORTANT ISSUE TO THE FOREFRONT. ARE YOU AWARE THAT NEW YORK STATE

BUILDING CODE ALREADY ADDRESSES THIS ISSUE IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, IN

A WAY THAT MAY NOT BE SO HARMFUL TO PREEXISTING BUSINESSES OR SCHOOLS

OR WHATEVER IT IS? ARE YOU AWARE THAT THIS ISSUE IS ADDRESSED?

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MS. KELLES: OH, THIS ISSUE IS ADDRESSED TO SOME

EXTENT, NOT TO THE FULL EXTENT THAT THIS WOULD. SO THIS IS COMPREHENSIVE

TO THE -- TO -- IN EXCESS OF THE BUILDING CODE, YES.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: ON THE BILL.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU. THE NEW YORK STATE

BUILDING CODE ADDRESSED THIS ISSUE IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS. THERE'S A

GRANDFATHERING CLAUSE THAT ALLOWS NONCONFORMING BUILDINGS TO STAY AS

IT IS UNTIL THE NEXT NEW YORK STATE BUILDING CODE, WHICH IS THE 50

PERCENT RULE. ONCE A -- AN ALTERATION WHICH -- WHICH -- AN ALTERATION TO

A STRUCTURE WHICH CREATES A SITUATION WHERE 50 PERCENT OF THE VALUE OF

THE STRUCTURE EXCEEDS THE EXISTING COST YOU HAVE TO BE IN COMPLIANCE

WITH A MORE MODERN-DAY CODE. AND THAT'S WORKED QUITE WELL OVER THE

YEARS BECAUSE SINCE 1990 WHEN THE AMERICAN DISABILITIES ACT [SIC]

TOOK PLACE, MANY BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN RENOVATED. AND -- AND AS SUCH,

THEY PUT IN ADA-COMPLIANT BATHROOMS, PROPER ADA-COMPLAINT RAMPS,

LIFTS, ELEVATORS, BARS AND ACCESSORIES. THERE ARE VERY FEW BUILDINGS THAT

DON'T COMPLY. BUT TO ASK A BUILDING, WHETHER HISTORIC OR SOMETHING

BUILT PRE-1990, TO DO A MAJOR RENOVATION WOULD PUT -- PUT A BUSINESS

OUT OF BUSINESS IF THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANY -- ANY OF THESE TYPE OF

RENOVATIONS. SO, AGAIN, THE NEW YORK STATE BUILDING CODE DOES

ADDRESS THIS ISSUE IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS WITHOUT PENALIZING PEOPLE

WHO AREN'T DOING ANY SPECIFIC RENOVATIONS. THERE IS ALSO A SECTION OF

THE CODE IN 1990 WHICH, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE PARTICULAR BUILDING DOESN'T

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

HAVE ACCESS, WHETHER THROUGH A RAMP OR A LESS THAN HALF-INCH

THRESHOLD, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO PUT UP A CERTAIN TYPE OF SIGNAGE THAT

WOULD -- WOULD -- SIGNAGE AND A BUZZER WHICH WOULD ALLOW SOMEONE

TO CALL UPON SOMEONE TO ASSIST IN THESE MATTERS, WHETHER TO GET INTO A

BUILDING OR GET THROUGH A DOORWAY. THESE MECHANISMS WERE PUT IN

PLACE WITH THE AMERICAN DISABILITIES ACT [SIC], BUT TO PENALIZE

BUSINESSES AND LOOK -- HAVE THIS LOOK-BACK WOULD ONLY OPEN UP

EVERYBODY TO A MAJOR AMOUNT OF LAWSUITS.

SO WITH THAT I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE, AND I

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND SPONSOR.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: THANK YOU, MR.

BROWN.

MS. SIMON.

MS. SIMON: YES. WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A

QUESTION OR TWO?

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. KELLES: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. SIMON: SO, THIS IS A BILL TO WAIVE SOVEREIGN

IMMUNITY BY NEW YORK STATE; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. KELLES: CORRECT. AND ONLY NEW YORK STATE.

MS. SIMON: AND IT IS NOT A BILL THAT WAIVES LIABILITY

FOR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES OR COUNTIES?

MS. KELLES: THAT IS AN INCORRECT CHARACTERIZATION.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DO NOT HAVE SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY ALREADY. THIS

IS SPECIFIC TO STATE GOVERNMENT.

MS. SIMON: SO, I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT SOVEREIGN

IMMUNITY ONLY ATTACHES TO THE STATE GOVERNMENT, NOT TO LOCAL

MUNICIPALITIES OR COUNTY GOVERNMENTS; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. KELLES: CORRECT. IT HAS BEEN CHARACTERIZED AS

THAT TODAY, BUT THAT IS NOT, IN FACT, THE CASE. THIS IS EXCLUSIVE TO THE

STATE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY THE CASE THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS

DO NOT HAVE SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY.

MS. SIMON: AND IT DOESN'T APPLY AS WELL TO PRIVATE

BUSINESSES; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. KELLES: CORRECT. PRIVATE BUSINESSES ALSO ARE

NOT CURRENTLY -- DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY. AND THE

BIG DRIVER OF THIS BILL IS TO CREATE THAT PARITY BECAUSE WE HAVE AN

IMBALANCE WHERE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES WHO ARE DISCRIMINATED

AGAINST AND WORK FOR PRIVATE COMPANIES DO ACTUALLY, IN FACT, HAVE THE

RIGHTS THAT ARE OUTLINED IN FEDERAL LAW. AND THERE IS NOT THAT PARITY

BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR THE STATE GOVERNMENT ARE NOT PROTECTED

BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT DONE OUR JOB TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE FEDERAL COURT

CASE AND CONTINUE THE PROTECTION OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES IN NEW

YORK STATE.

MS. SIMON: SO JUST TO CLARIFY, THIS BILL WOULD ONLY

ALLOW PEOPLE WHO SEEK REDRESS FROM THE STATE BECAUSE OF A LACK OF

ACCESS OR DISCRIMINATION IN EMPLOYMENT BY THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

MS. KELLES: CORRECT.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU.

MS. KELLES: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE.

MR. LAVINE: THANKS, MR. SPEAKER. I WONDER IF THE

SPONSOR WILL YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF BRIEF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. KELLES, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. KELLES: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. LAVINE: SO, MS. KELLES, NEW YORK LAW HAS

FOR YEARS PROVIDED THAT STATUTES ARE NOT RETROACTIVE UNLESS EXPRESSLY OR

IMPLIEDLY SO PROVIDED. SO WHEN I READ THIS BILL - AND OF COURSE WE'RE

ONLY TALKING ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN LINES - I SEE NO REFERENCE WHATSOEVER TO

RETROACTIVE INTENT. IS MY READING CORRECT?

MS. KELLES: THE -- THE BILL WOULD BE RETROACTIVE TO

THE DATE OF FEBRUARY 2001. FEBRUARY 1ST IS MY UNDERSTANDING. AND

THAT ALIGNS WITH THE COURT CASE THAT DETERMINED THAT THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT EXCEEDED ITS JURISDICTION, AND IT SHOULD BE THE STATE THAT

DETERMINES WHETHER OR NOT THEY WAIVE THEIR SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY.

MR. LAVINE: THANK YOU.

SO, LAST QUESTION. WHERE DOES IT SAY ANYWHERE IN THE

LANGUAGE OF THE BILL THAT IT'S RETROACTIVE?

MS. KELLES: IT DOESN'T -- IT'S NOT EXPLICIT IN THE BILL

ITSELF, BUT THE IDENTIFICATION OF -- OR REFERENCE BACK TO THE COURT CASE,

THE JUDICIAL COURT CASE --

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. LAVINE: AND YOU'RE --

MS. KELLES: (INAUDIBLE)

MR. LAVINE: -- YOU'RE SUGGESTING THAT THAT'S

SOMEHOW IMPLIED HERE IN THIS LANGUAGE?

MS. KELLES: CORRECT.

MR. LAVINE: ALL RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND YOUR

SUGGESTION, NOT THAT I AGREE WITH IT.

MS. KELLES: OKAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7121. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THOSE WHO

SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO VOTE IN FAVOR HERE ON THE FLOOR OR

BY CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE IF THEY ARE COVID-IMPACTED.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

OF LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW OF OUR COLLEAGUES THAT

WOULD LIKE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO PRESS THEIR

BUTTONS WHILE THEY ARE IN THE CHAMBER OR CALL THE MAJORITY LEADER'S

OFFICE AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE GETS PROPERLY RECORDED.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. KELLES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. KELLES: SO, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS BILL

HAS BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD 20 YEARS IN A ROW. THERE'S NEVER BEEN MORE

THAN TEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE OPPOSED THIS BILL IN ANY ONE OF THOSE YEARS,

WHICH TO ME IMPLIES A BIPARTISAN SUPPORT RECOGNIZING OUR

RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT THOSE WHO WORK FOR THE STATE AND GIVE THEM

THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEEK REDRESS FOR DISCRIMINATION AGAINST SOMEONE

WITH DISABILITIES. I'M -- I'M HAVING A -- A DIFFICULT TIME WITH THE -- THE

FACT THAT WE'RE DEBATING THAT WE WOULD WANT TO PROTECT THOSE WHO

WORKED FOR US, WORK FOR THE STATE, DEDICATE THEIR ENTIRE LIVES TO

WORKING FOR THE BETTERMENT OF OUR STATE, THAT WE WOULD NOT PROVIDE

THEM THE SAME PROTECTIONS THAT ALL LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE REQUIRED TO

PROVIDE THEM. THAT ALL PRIVATE BUSINESSES ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE

THEM. THIS BILL IS SIMPLY ABOUT PARITY. I WOULD NOTE, TOO, THAT WE HAVE

RECEIVED NO LETTERS OF OPPOSITION TO THIS BILL. AND THE FACT SPECIFICALLY

THAT WE WOULD BE SAYING THAT IT IS OKAY TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PEOPLE

SIMPLY FOR THE SHEER FACT THAT WE HAVE NOT RECTIFIED A WRONG SINCE 2001

TO ME I FIND REPUGNANT.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

I WILL BE SUPPORTING, OBVIOUSLY, THIS BILL TODAY AND

FOREVER. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. KELLES IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

MY VOTE. SO, A LOT OF TIMES WE HAVE BILLS THAT ARE REALLY LONG, THEY'RE

KIND OF -- THEY'RE -- THEY'RE DIFFICULT TO READ. THIS BILL, WHICH -- WELL,

WE'VE ALL GOT, YOU KNOW, THESE NICE LITTLE PADS ON OUR DESKS HERE. YOU

CAN LOOK IT UP. IT'S ONLY 11 LINES LONG. AND I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT A

COUPLE OF REASONS WHICH REALLY UNDERLINE THE REASON WHY I CAN'T

SUPPORT THIS BILL. AT LINE 8 OF THE BILL IT SAYS, THE PROVISIONS OF SUCH

ACT SHALL APPLY -- SHALL APPLY -- TO THE STATE AND ANY INSTRUMENTALITY OR

POLITICAL SUBDIVISION THEREOF. SO THAT, TO ME, MEANS IT JUST DOESN'T

APPLY TO THE STATE, IT APPLIES TO ANY POLITICAL SUBDIVISION THEREOF, WHICH

WOULD MEAN LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. LASTLY, AT LINES 10 AND 11, THIS ACT

SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY AND SHALL BE DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN IN FULL

FORCE AND EFFECT ON AND AFTER FEBRUARY 21, 2001. THAT IS WHERE THE

RETROACTIVITY ISSUE COMES IN, AND THAT'S REALLY WHY I CAN'T SUPPORT THE

BILL. AND THAT -- AND THAT'S NOT A TYPO. I MEAN, THAT'S JUST -- IT'S 2001.

SO I CAN'T AGREE TO GOING BACK OVER 20 YEARS AND SUBJECTING LOCAL

GOVERNMENT OR STATE GOVERNMENT TO THESE -- THESE OBLIGATIONS. IT IS THE

MOTHER OF ALL MANDATES, IN THE WORDS OF -- OF MY COLLEAGUE TO MY RIGHT.

SO I -- I'M UNABLE TO SUPPORT THE BILL IN THAT FORM AND

FOR THAT REASON I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. BROWN.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I DON'T THINK

ANYBODY HAS ANY ISSUE WITH TRYING TO GET BUILDINGS INTO COMPLIANCY.

CERTAINLY, IT'S A WORTHWHILE THING TO DO AND -- AND A CERTAIN NEED.

PERHAPS WE SHOULD OFFER A CARVEOUT JUST FOR STATE-RUN BUILDINGS. BUT TO

PUT THIS ON EVERYONE ELSE WHEN SPECIFICALLY NOT ONLY NEW YORK STATE

BUILDING CODE ALLOWS FOR THIS CARVEOUT OF PREEXISTING BUILDINGS, THE

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES THAT WITH FEMA WITH THEIR 50 PERCENT RULE

AS WELL. SO IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND GOOD

ENOUGH FOR THE NEW YORK STATE BUILDING CODE, WHY ARE WE PUTTING

THIS ON EVERYBODY? PUT IT ON THE STATE. LET EVERY STATE BUILDING BE IN

COMPLIANCE AND HAVE THAT AS A CARVEOUT FOR THIS PARTICULAR BILL, WHICH

IS CERTAINLY WORTHWHILE.

THIS IS THE REASON WHY I'M VOTING NEGATIVE AND I

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BROWN IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. LAVINE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. LAVINE: SO I'VE HAD A -- THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE -- THE LANGUAGE, AND WHILE

THIS MAY VERY WELL HAVE BEEN INADVERTENT, BECAUSE THE LANGUAGE I'M

GOING TO SPEAK WITH IS NOT THE LANGUAGE THAT'S JUST BEEN ADDED BY THE

BILL, WHICH IS LINES 3 TO 9, BUT IT IS LANGUAGE THAT MUST HAVE BEEN IN THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ORIGINAL BILL SUBMITTED YEARS AGO WHICH DOES SAY, TO MY SURPRISE, THIS

SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY AND SHALL BE DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN IN FULL

FORCE AND EFFECT ON AND AFTER FEBRUARY 21, 2001. SO I CERTAINLY AGREE

AND LIKE AND SUPPORT THE PHILOSOPHY OF THIS BILL, BUT I'M HESITANT TO

OPEN UP A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS NOW THAT WILL GO BACK 21 OR 22 YEARS.

SO I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND I'M GOING TO VOTE IN THE

NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MS. SIMON.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I, TOO, HAVE

NOTICED THE -- THAT PROVISION WHICH I BELIEVE IS PROBABLY AN EARLIER

PROVISION IN THE BILL AND WAS NOT INTENDED TO GO BACK AS FAR AS 2001

TODAY. I THINK THAT THAT IS THE KIND OF THING THAT IS VERY EASILY RESOLVED

IN A CHAPTER AMENDMENT OR AN AMENDMENT. WE CAN BRING IT BACK TO

THE FLOOR. AND SO I'LL VOTE IN SUPPORT OF THIS. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I

WANT TO CLARIFY IS WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS, YOU

KNOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AGENCIES, YOU'RE TALKING PERHAPS ABOUT

PUBLIC AUTHORITIES. PUBLIC AUTHORITIES HAVE ALREADY BEEN SUED UNDER

THE ADA AND BEEN FOUND LIABLE UNDER THE ADA AND HAVE LOST MAJOR

SUITS, INCLUDING, FOR EXAMPLE, THE MTA. SO THE REALITY IS THAT

SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY DOESN'T NORMALLY ATTACH TO THOSE KINDS OF ENTITIES,

AND -- AND THEY CERTAINLY DOES NOT ATTACH TO LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES. AND

THAT IS THE -- THE LAW OF THE LAND AND HAS BEEN CASE LAW FOR YEARS. AND

ALSO I WOULD POINT OUT THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS IS THREE YEARS. SO EVEN

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

IF IT WERE RETROACTIVE TO 2001, IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE.

AND SO I WILL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL, AND

WOULD SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS A CHAPTER AMENDMENT MIGHT BE IN ORDER

WITH REGARD TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SIMON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MR. GOODELL FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WE'RE

BLESSED HERE IN THE CHAMBER TO HAVE WITH US A NUMBER OF HIGH SCHOOL

STUDENTS FROM CHERRY VALLEY-SPRINGFIELD CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT.

THEY'RE HERE VISITING THE CAPITOL AND THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY

CHAMBERS. THEY ARE FROM ASSEMBLYMAN BRIAN MILLER'S DISTRICT AS

WELL AS ASSEMBLYMAN CHRIS TAGUE. AND THESE ARE, YOU WILL BE GLAD TO

KNOW, PATRIOTS.

AND SO IF YOU WILL WELCOME ALL THESE PROUD PATRIOTS

FROM THE CHERRY -- CHERRY VALLEY-SPRINGFIELD CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT,

I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF

OF MR. MILLER, MR. TAGUE, MR. GOODELL, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE

MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.

WE EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. IT IS SUCH A PLEASURE

HAVING YOU WITH US TODAY. WE HOPE THIS DAY WILL BE INSTRUCTIVE AND

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THAT AS YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR EDUCATION YOU CONSIDER A JOB IN PUBLIC

SERVICE. WE GET A BAD REP EVERY NOW AND THEN, BUT IN MANY CASES WE

DO GOOD WORK AND WE HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONSIDER THAT. THANK YOU SO

VERY MUCH.

(APPLAUSE)

PAGE 24, CALENDAR NO. 240, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07356-B, CALENDAR

NO. 240, WOERNER, ABINANTI, WALSH, SAYEGH, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND

THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A PUBLIC

AWARENESS CAMPAIGN TO COMBAT THE STIGMA AND STEREOTYPING OF

INDIVIDUALS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7356-B. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. SPEAKER. I

FEEL LIKE I'VE BEEN SPEAKING ON A NUMBER OF THESE BILLS TODAY, BUT THESE,

AS YOU KNOW, ARE VERY CLOSE AND VERY NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART. I

WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD AGAIN. I'M A

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

PROUD COSPONSOR OF THIS BILL AS WELL. I JUST WANT TO SHARE THAT ABOUT 30

YEARS AGO WHEN MY SON TERRY WAS BORN, I REMEMBER TALKING TO HIS

PEDIATRICIAN. AND WHEN HE WAS ABOUT TWO OR THREE YEARS OLD AND --

AND THE PEDIATRICIAN, AFTER I DESCRIBED KIND OF WHAT I WAS SEEING AND --

AND REALLY NOT HEARING FROM MY SON IN TERMS OF LANGUAGE, SHE SAID,

WELL, MAYBE HE'S GOT A LITTLE AUTISM. AND, YOU KNOW, I -- THAT MADE NO

SENSE TO ME AT ALL. I HAD NO UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT AUTISM WAS. IT WAS

A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD THAT I KIND OF WAS PROPELLED INTO. I HAVE

TO SAY OVER THE LAST SIX YEARS JUST LISTENING TO DIFFERENT MEMBERS IN THE

CHAMBER SPEAK ABOUT THEIR CHILDREN, THEIR GRANDCHILDREN, THEIR

NEIGHBORS' CHILDREN, IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT WHEN IT COMES TO INDIVIDUALS

WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES THERE ARE SO MANY MORE STORIES AND

THERE'S SUCH -- SUCH A GREATER UNDERSTANDING THAN THERE USED TO BE. BUT

THE STIGMAS STILL REMAIN AND THE STEREOTYPING STILL REMAINS. THERE'S AN

OLD SAYING IN THE AUTISM COMMUNITY THAT IF YOU'VE MET ONE PERSON WITH

AUTISM, YOU'VE MET ONE PERSON WITH AUTISM. AND I THINK THAT EVEN IF

JUST THAT MESSAGE ALONE CAN GET OUT THAT -- WITH INDIVIDUALS WITH

DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES AND INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES, THERE IS SUCH A

WIDE RANGE OF ABILITY. AND I THINK THAT IF WE CAN SHIFT OUR THINKING TO

THINKING ABOUT WHAT INDIVIDUALS CAN DO INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON WHAT

THEY CAN'T, WE CAN LEARN TO THINK DIFFERENTLY IN THAT RESPECT. I THINK THAT

WE'RE GOING TO BE MUCH BETTER OFF AS A STATE AND AS -- AS A BIG FAMILY

AND COMMUNITY.

SO I REALLY THINK THAT ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO GET

THAT WORD OUT IS IMPORTANT, AND I'M VERY PROUD TO SUPPORT AND TO BE A

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

SPONSOR OF THIS BILL. SO, THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 27, CALENDAR NO. 310, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07443-B, CALENDAR

NO. 310, ABINANTI, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO REPLACING CERTAIN INSTANCES OF THE

TERM "MENTALLY RETARDED" WITH THE TERM "INDIVIDUALS WITH

DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES."

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7443-B. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. ABINANTI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. ABINANTI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'D LIKE

TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES AND THE STAFF FOR -- FOR MOVING THIS BILL

FORWARD. IT'S ABOUT TIME THAT WE CLEAN UP OUR -- ALL OF OUR STATUTES TO

REMOVE PEJORATIVE TERMS. THERE'S AN "R" WORD IN MANY OF OUR STATUTES,

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

WHICH HAS BECOME A VERY PEJORATIVE TERM, AND THAT IS CALLING SOMEONE

RETARDED. WE HAVE LEARNED OVER THE YEARS THAT RETARDATION IS A VERY

SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE. IT SHOULD NOT BE A PEJORATIVE TERM, BUT IT HAS

BECOME A PEJORATIVE TERM. SO WE'VE BECOME MUCH, MUCH MORE

CULTURALLY-SENSITIVE, APPROPRIATELY, AND TRYING TO DESCRIBE THE

CONDITIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE IN MORE ACCURATE TERMS. AND TO USE

PEOPLE-FIRST LANGUAGE. LET'S REMEMBER, WE'RE DEALING WITH PEOPLE. SO

IF A PERSON HAS A MENTAL ILLNESS, WE THEN TRY TO SAY THEY HAVE A MENTAL

ILLNESS, A PERSON WITH A MENTAL ILLNESS. AND WE TALK ABOUT A PERSON

WITH A DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITY. PEOPLE-FIRST LANGUAGE. IT IS IMPORTANT

TO STRESS TO EVERYONE THAT IT SHOULD BE PEOPLE FIRST, AND THEN DEAL WITH

THE CHALLENGE. LET'S ACCOMMODATE THE CHALLENGE. LET'S LOOK AT THE

ABILITIES.

SO I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES. THERE WILL BE

ADDITIONAL BILLS ON THIS VERY ISSUE. THERE ARE SOME MORE IN MY

COMMITTEE AND I'M SURE IN THE FUTURE WE'LL DISCOVER OTHER PLACES WHERE

THERE ARE TERMS THAT SHOULD BE CORRECTED. SO THIS IS THE SECOND TIME WE

HAVE DONE THIS IN THE LAST FEW YEARS. I'M EXPECTING WE'RE GOING TO BE

DOING THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN WITH DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF THE LAW.

BUT AGAIN, I THANK MY COLLEAGUES AND THE STAFF FOR

WORKING ON -- ON CORRECTING THIS, THE LANGUAGE IN THIS AND THESE

PARTICULAR STATUTES TO MAKE THEM CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE. THANK YOU,

MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. MR.

ABINANTI IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. BURDICK.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

MY VOTE. I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL, CHAIR ABINANTI,

FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD. AND IT REALLY SPEAKS TO A MAJOR ISSUE, AND

THAT IS THAT BEFORE WE PROPERLY CARE FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, BE THEY

INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES OR PHYSICAL DISABILITIES, WE REALLY NEED TO

CHANGE ATTITUDES IN SOCIETY. AND WHAT THE SPEAKER -- WHAT THE CHAIR

WAS JUST DESCRIBING WAS JUST EVIDENCE OF HOW PEOPLE WITH INTELLECTUAL

DISABILITIES HAVE BEEN CATEGORIZED. AND THIS IS A STEP, AND ONLY A FIRST

STEP, REALLY, IN HELPING TO CHANGE THOSE ATTITUDES. AS WE CHANGE

ATTITUDES, THEN I THINK WE WILL FIND GREATER SUPPORT IN SOCIETY AND HERE

IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK FOR THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING TO TRY TO

IMPROVE THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

SO I COMMEND THE CHAIR. I THANK THE -- THE SPEAKER

FOR ALLOWING THIS BILL AND THE OTHER BILLS TO COME FORWARD TODAY. I VOTE

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BURDICK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 39, CALENDAR NO. 551, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08540-A, CALENDAR

NO. 551, BURDICK, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN

RELATION TO REQUIRING SAME-DAY NOTIFICATION OF A PARENT OR PERSON IN

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

PARENTAL RELATION OF A STUDENT WITH A DISABILITY WHERE CERTAIN BEHAVIORAL

INTERVENTIONS ARE USED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8540-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. BURDICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

MY VOTE. I FIRST WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER AND I WANT TO THANK STAFF FOR

ALLOWING THIS BILL TO BE BEFORE THE CHAMBER TODAY. THIS IS A VERY

SIMPLE BILL. IT REALLY IS TO PUT THE STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES IN OUR

SCHOOLS AND THEIR PARENTS REALLY ON PARITY IN THE SAME BASIS AS OTHER

PARENTS WHEN SOMETHING OCCURS AT SCHOOL FOR WHICH NOTIFICATION NOT

ONLY IS APPROPRIATE, BUT SHOULD BE DONE IMMEDIATELY. THIS SIMPLY

PROVIDES FOR SAME-DAY NOTIFICATION BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OF THE

APPLICATION OF ANY RESTRAINTS TO A STUDENT WITH DISABILITIES, BE THEY

SECLUSION OR OTHER PHYSICAL RESTRAINT. IN MANY INSTANCES THOSE STUDENTS

LITERALLY ARE VOICELESS. AND I'VE HEARD ACCOUNTS OF THIS FROM PARENTS OF

CHILDREN WHO ARE AUTISTIC WHO DID NOT HEAR FOR WEEKS, IF NOT MONTHS, OF

RESTRAINTS THAT WERE APPLIED. AND JUST AS A PARENT OF A CHILD WHO GOES

ILL TO THE NURSE AND THE NURSE CALLS AND IT'S DONE ON THE SAME DAY. AND

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THIS WOULD PROVIDE THE SAME COURTESY AND THE SAME ATTENTION TO THE

HEALTH OF THE CHILD THAT IS AFFORDED TO ANY OTHER STUDENT THAT WOULD ALSO

BE AFFORDED TO THAT STUDENT WITH DISABILITIES AND THEIR PARENT.

SO AGAIN, I THANK THE SPEAKER VERY MUCH AND THE STAFF

FOR ALLOWING THIS TO MOVE FORWARD AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BURDICK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 39, CALENDAR NO. 552, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08599-A, CALENDAR

NO. 552, EPSTEIN, BURDICK, ABINANTI, GALLAGHER, SEAWRIGHT, GRIFFIN,

LAWLER, SIMON, ENGLEBRIGHT, MEEKS, CRUZ, MONTESANO, LEMONDES,

DESTEFANO, MCDONALD, FERNANDEZ, GUNTHER, GOTTFRIED, SALKA, SILLITTI,

COOK, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO

REQUIRING EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES TO BE POSTED ON THE DEPARTMENT OF

CIVIL SERVICE WEBSITE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8599-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. EPSTEIN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SO, THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE THING THAT ALLOWS

INFORMATION THAT MAY NOT BE AVAILABLE TO ALL COMMUNITIES TO BE

AVAILABLE IN A BROADER WAY. EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES IN THE STATE OF

NEW YORK SOMETIMES IS -- IS A CLOSELY-HELD SECRET, AND ESPECIALLY FOR

PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE.

THIS BILL JUST REQUIRES ALL POSITIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO BE POSTED ON

THE DEPARTMENT OF CIVIL SERVICE WEBSITE AND POSTED ESPECIALLY IF THERE

ARE SET-ASIDES WITH PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES SO THEY KNOW WHAT JOBS ARE

AVAILABLE SO THEY CAN APPLY FOR THEM. AS WE KNOW IN NEW YORK STATE

AND AROUND THE COUNTRY, UNEMPLOYMENT RATES FOR PEOPLE WITH

DISABILITIES ARE THROUGH THE ROOF. WE'RE AT ONLY 30 TO 35 PERCENT OF

PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES HAVING EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES. WE NEED TO

MAKE MORE JOBS AVAILABLE. WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE JOBS

THAT ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES KNOW ABOUT. THIS

IS A SIMPLE WAY TO GET THAT DONE.

I WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER FOR ALLOWING THIS BILL TO

COME TO THE FLOOR. I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. BURDICK.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD

LIKE TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL FOR THE TREMENDOUS WORK THAT

HE'S BEEN DOING IN THIS AREA OF EXPANDING EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES

FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES. LAST YEAR AFTER THE SPEAKER GAVE ME THE

HONOR OF CHAIRING THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR

PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, CHAIR ABINANTI ALLOWED ME TO INVITE MR.

EPSTEIN AS A MEMBER ALONG WITH MISSY MILLER, AND HE HAS BEEN JUST A

TREMENDOUS ADVOCATE AND SOMEONE WHO ROLLS UP HIS SLEEVES TO TRY TO

GET THINGS DONE. WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD THE HEARING IN THE FALL ON THE

EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES IF IT HAD NOT

BEEN NOT ONLY WITH THE HELP AND THE SUPPORT OF STAFF AND CHAIR

ABINANTI, BUT THE TREMENDOUS WORK WHICH MR. EPSTEIN HAS INSERTED IN

THIS AREA, AND THIS BILL IS JUST ONE MEASURE OF THAT. AND I APPLAUD HIM

FOR HIS WORK AND I ENTHUSIASTICALLY SUPPORT THIS BILL.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN [SIC] IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 39, CALENDAR NO. 556, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08816-A, CALENDAR

NO. 556, EPSTEIN, ABINANTI, BURDICK, GALLAGHER, SEAWRIGHT,

ENGLEBRIGHT, CRUZ, HEVESI, MCDONALD, FERNANDEZ, GOTTFRIED, GIBBS,

COOK, OTIS. AN ACT TO ESTABLISH THE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ACCESS TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

PROGRAMS COMMISSION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8816-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. EPSTEIN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. THIS BILL IS AN ISSUE THAT'S BEEN COMING UP FOR

DECADES IN THE DISABILITY COMMUNITY. WHAT WE LEARNED IN A HEARING IN

OCTOBER WAS WITH EIGHT DAYS -- EIGHT HOURS OF HEARING WITH 70

WITNESSES WHO CAME, AS MY COLLEAGUE TALKED ABOUT, TIME AND TIME

AGAIN WE HEARD FROM FAMILIES THAT SAID, MY CHILD APPLIED FOR PROGRAM

A AND IT TOOK A YEAR TO GET THROUGH THE SYSTEM. AND THEN THEY APPLIED

FOR PROGRAM B AND IT TOOK ANOTHER YEAR TO GET THROUGH THE SYSTEM. AND

THEN AT PROGRAM C, ANOTHER YEAR. TIME AND TIME AGAIN PEOPLE ARE

FACING HURDLES TO GET THE SERVICES THAT THEY NEED. THIS REQUIRES A

STREAMLINED PROCESS TO HAVE PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO DISABILITY SERVICES,

WHETHER IT'S WITH OPWDD, THE DEPARTMENT OF THE BLIND OR THROUGH THE

DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, YOU NEED A STRAIGHTFORWARD, SIMPLE APPROACH TO

ENSURE PEOPLE GET ACCESS TO THE SERVICES THAT THEY NEED. THIS IS EXACTLY

WHAT THIS BILL ALLOWS US TO DO.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

I WANT TO THANK THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE AND MY

COLLEAGUES WHO ARE -- BEEN REALLY MOVING THIS AGENDA FORWARD. I WANT

TO THANK THE SPEAKER FOR ALLOWING THIS PACKAGE -- THIS PACKAGE OF BILLS

TO GO FORWARD, AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE BECAUSE THIS IS A REAL BREAKING MOMENT IN THE ASSEMBLY

WHEN WE PRIORITIZE THE ISSUES WITH PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND THEIR

RIGHT TO EMPLOYMENT. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 5, RULES REPORT NO. 93, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06710-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 93, ZEBROWSKI, QUART, LUPARDO, SOLAGES, SIMON, DINOWITZ,

GUNTHER, MONTESANO, RA, ABINANTI, MAMDANI, ZINERMAN, DICKENS,

MCDONALD, COLTON, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN

RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE COMMISSION OF THE DEAF, DEAFBLIND AND

HARD OF HEARING; TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO

REQUIRING THE COMMISSION OF THE DEAF, DEAFBLIND, AND HARD OF

HEARING TO TRANSMIT COMPLAINTS IN MATTERS AFFECTING THE DEAF,

DEAFBLIND, AND HARD OF HEARING COMMUNITIES TO THE VULNERABLE PERSONS'

CENTRAL REGISTER; AND TO REPEAL SECTION 559 OF THE EXECUTIVE LAW

RELATING TO THE NEW YORK STATE INTERAGENCY COORDINATING COUNCIL FOR

SERVICES TO PERSONS WHO ARE DEAF, DEAF-BLIND, OR HARD OF HEARING.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 6710-B. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. ZEBROWSKI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. THIS BILL ESTABLISHES A COMMISSION FOR

THE DEAF, DEAFBLIND AND HARD OF HEARING. IT WILL REPLACE WHAT HAS BEEN

A DEFUNCT INTERAGENCY COORDINATING COUNCIL FOR SERVICES TO PERSONS

WHO ARE DEAF, DEAF-BLIND AND HARD OF HEARING. THAT INTERAGENCY

COUNCIL WAS CREATED IN 2007, BUT HASN'T REALLY MET. AND AS WE VOTE ON

THIS BILL TODAY I WANT TO GIVE CREDIT TO A PARTICULAR CONSTITUENT OF MINE,

SEAN GERLIS, WHO HAD BROUGHT THIS ISSUE TO ME A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO

NOW. AND THROUGH HIM I HAD MET WITH MANY ADVOCATES IN THIS AREA,

LISTENING TO THEM. WE HAD COMMUNICATED ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THIS

COMMUNITY AND HOW IT HAD SORT OF FALLEN THROUGH THE CRACKS. AND

ALTHOUGH THERE WAS AN INTERAGENCY COUNCIL ESTABLISHED, IT JUST NEVER

GOT REALLY OFF THE GROUND, NEVER PROVIDED THE SERVICES IT WAS SUPPOSED

TO, LEAVING THIS COMMUNITY WITHOUT THE COORDINATION OF SERVICES AND

DISCUSSIONS OF ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THEIR COMMUNITY AND THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

STATE. SO WITH THE PASSAGE OF THIS BILL TODAY AND HOPEFULLY IT MOVES TO

THE SENATE AND TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK, WE HOPE TO FINALLY WORK WITH

FOLKS WHO ARE DEAF, DEAFBLIND AND HARD OF HEARING, ATTEMPT TO HAVE

THEIR ISSUES HEARD AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF STATE GOVERNMENT AND ATTEMPT

TO COORDINATE SERVICES SO THAT THEY CAN INTERACT IN THE STATE OF NEW

YORK IN THE MOST EFFICIENT AND PRODUCTIVE WAY POSSIBLE.

SO I ENCOURAGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE FOR THIS BILL.

I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. AND I JUST REALLY WANTED TO THANK MR.

GERLIS AND ALL THE FOLKS OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS THAT MY STAFF AND I

HAVE INTERACTED WITH WHO HAVE HELPED CRAFT THIS BILL IN THE BEST

POSSIBLE WAY. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR. MR.

ZEBROWSKI IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 6, RULES REPORT NO. 94, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09976, RULES REPORT

NO. 94, GIBBS, OTIS, PEOPLES-STOKES. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 219 OF

THE LAWS OF 2003, AMENDING THE EDUCATION LAW RELATING TO PUBLISHERS

OR MANUFACTURERS PROVIDING PRINTED INSTRUCTIONAL MATERIALS FOR COLLEGE

STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9976. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

AND I SEE MR. GIBBS IS NOT IN YOUR SEAT AS USUAL. OH,

THERE YOU ARE, MR. GIBBS. MR. GIBBS, THIS APPEARS TO BE YOUR FIRST

PASSED BILL. CONGRATULATIONS, SIR.

(APPLAUSE)

AS YOU KNOW, MR. GIBBS, THIS IS THE LAST TIME THEY'LL

STAND AND CLAP FOR ANY BILL YOU PASS, BUT I'M SURE THERE WILL BE MANY

MORE. THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. GOODELL FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

SPEAKER. IT IS MY GREAT HONOR TO INTRODUCE A DELEGATION FROM THE ST.

LAWRENCE COUNTY, LED BY THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF LEGISLATORS,

WILLIAM SHERIDAN. WE ALSO HAVE WITH US KEVIN ACRES, THE CHAIR OF

THE FINANCE COMMITTEE. COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR RUTH DOYLE. DEPUTY

COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR DYLAN SOPER AND TREASURER RENEE COLE. WE'RE

HONORED TO HAVE ALL THESE TOP EXECUTIVES FROM ST. LAWRENCE COUNTY

HERE FROM MR. SMULLEN'S DISTRICT. ALTHOUGH I'M JUST A LITTLE WORRIED

ABOUT WHO MIGHT BE RUNNING ST. LAWRENCE COUNTY SINCE ALL THEIR TOP

PEOPLE ARE HERE. BUT IF YOU'D WELCOME TO OUR CHAMBER AND EXTEND THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF

OF MR. SMULLEN, MR. GOODELL, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE

WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY. WE EXTEND TO

YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. AND OF COURSE AS BROTHER AND SISTER

LEGISLATORS, WE UNDERSTAND THE BURDEN THAT YOU TAKE ON AS WE TAKE ON

SIMILAR BURDENS. WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU. HOPE THAT YOU CONTINUE TO

SERVE YOUR COUNTY IN AN EXCELLENT WAY, AS I'M SURE YOU HAVE, AND KNOW

THAT YOU'RE ALWAYS WELCOME HERE. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

(APPLAUSE)

ON CONSENT, PAGE 41, CALENDAR NO. 575, THE CLERK

WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09659, CALENDAR NO.

575, FAHY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE BANKING LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING

A WRITTEN NOTIFICATION OF OVERDRAFT FEES CHARGED TO CERTAIN ACCOUNT

HOLDERS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09677, CALENDAR NO.

576, TAPIA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

PROVISION OF INFORMED CONSENT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

TAPIA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED

AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09694, CALENDAR NO.

577, ZEBROWSKI. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

TO QUALIFICATION TO HOLD THE POSITION OF ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY IN THE

COUNTY OF ROCKLAND.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9694. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09764, CALENDAR NO.

578, DE LOS SANTOS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

RELATION TO REDEFINING THE DUTIES AND RENAMING THE OFFICE OF MINORITY

HEALTH TO THE OFFICE OF HEALTH EQUITY AND RENAMING THE MINORITY

HEALTH COUNCIL TO THE HEALTHY EQUITY COUNCIL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09814, CALENDAR NO.

579, PAULIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO

INFORMATION CONCERNING SERVICES FOR HUMAN RIGHTS TRAFFICKING VICTIMS

IN FACILITIES AT TRUCK STOPS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

DAY.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9814. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09821, CALENDAR NO.

580, JEAN-PIERRE, REYES, EPSTEIN, DARLING, FERNANDEZ, BUTTENSCHON,

COLTON, SIMON, MCDONALD. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE

CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING CURRICULUM RELATED TO HUMAN

TRAFFICKING AWARENESS TO BE INCLUDED IN ALCOHOL TRAINING AWARENESS

PROGRAMS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9821. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09883, CALENDAR NO.

581, PAULIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION

TO INFORMATION CONCERNING SERVICES FOR HUMAN TRAFFICKING VICTIMS IN

SERVICE AREAS MAINTAINED BY THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9883. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09956, CALENDAR NO.

582, DINOWITZ. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 483 OF THE LAWS OF 2017,

AMENDING THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW RELATING TO REQUIRING THE

METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH AN EXPIRED FARE

TRANSFER POLICY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9956. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09960, CALENDAR NO.

583, BURGOS. AN ACT TO REPEAL SUBDIVISION 9 OF SECTION 8-400 OF THE

ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO ABSENTEE VOTING IN PRIMARY ELECTIONS FOR

CERTAIN PARTY POSITIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9960. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09961, CALENDAR NO.

584, ZEBROWSKI. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION

TO CLARIFYING HOW CERTAIN NON-BILLING INFORMATION REGARDING THE

DELIVERY OF WATER IS DISCLOSED TO RESIDENTS OF COOPERATIVES,

CONDOMINIUMS OR MULTI-FAMILY DWELLINGS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09964, CALENDAR NO.

585, JOYNER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION

TO ESTABLISHING LIGHT DUTY DURING PREGNANCY AND PARENTAL LEAVE FOR

CERTAIN COMMUTER RAIL SERVICE EMPLOYEES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9964. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

RULES REPORT NO. 83, PAGE 5, BILL NO. 6328 [SIC], THE

CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06328-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 83, CRUZ, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, BURGOS, EPSTEIN, DE LOS

SANTOS, ANDERSON, WEPRIN, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS, SOLAGES, OTIS. AN ACT TO

AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION

BASED ON CITIZENSHIP OR IMMIGRATION STATUS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MS. CRUZ.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE STATE OF

NEW YORK AND ITS CITIZENS HAVE LONG HELD TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ROOM FOR DISCRIMINATION OF ANY KIND IN OUR STATE AND COMMUNITIES.

THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS CURRENTLY INVESTIGATES CASES IN WHICH

INDIVIDUALS HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BECAUSE OF THEIR NATIONAL

ORIGIN. THIS BILL WOULD AMEND SECTION 292 OF THE EXECUTIVE LAW TO

ESTABLISH THE DEFINITION FOR THE TERM "CITIZENSHIP" OR "IMMIGRATION

STATUS" WITHIN THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW, SECTION 296 OF THE EXECUTIVE

LAW TO PROHIBIT DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF CITIZENSHIP OR

IMMIGRATION STATUS, AND SECTION 63 OF THE EXECUTIVE LAW TO AUTHORIZE

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO PROSECUTE SUCH CIVIL AND CRIMINAL OFFENSES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ONE MINUTE, MR.

GOODELL.

MEMBERS, PLEASE. WE'RE ON DEBATE. WE'D APPRECIATE

IF YOU ARE NOT TAKING YOUR SEAT, TAKE YOUR CONVERSATIONS UNDER THE EAVE.

THANK YOU.

PROCEED, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ. I

UNDERSTAND THAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS BILL IS TO ELIMINATE DISCRIMINATION

BASED ON CITIZENSHIP OR IMMIGRATION STATUS. AND IMMIGRATION STATUS

WOULD MEAN WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE HERE LEGALLY, A PERMANENT RESIDENT

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

HERE LEGALLY ON A TEMPORARY VISA OF ONE TYPE OR ANOTHER OR HERE

ILLEGALLY; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: I'M GOING TO CHOOSE TO CHANGE A LITTLE BIT

OF THE LANGUAGE BECAUSE I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THE WORD ILLEGAL. NO

ONE IS AN ILLEGAL PERSON OR HUMAN. WHAT THE BILL BASICALLY DOES IS SAY

IF A PERSON IS HERE WITH STATUS, MEANING A PERMANENT RESIDENT, A PERSON

WHO IS AN ASYLEE OR WHO HAS ANY OTHER FORM OF FEDERALLY-RECOGNIZED

STATUS, INCLUDING CITIZENSHIP, OR DOES NOT HAVE THAT STATUS.

MR. GOODELL: WHEN YOU SAY DOESN'T HAVE STATUS

YOU MEAN THEY'RE HERE WITHOUT LEGAL IMMIGRATION PAPERS LIKE A LEGAL

VISA OF ANY KIND?

MS. CRUZ: THEY ARE HERE WITHOUT IMMIGRATION

STATUS. WELL, I COULD EXPLAIN TO YOU THE WHOLE GAMUT, IF THAT'S WHAT

YOU'D LIKE.

MR. GOODELL: (INAUDIBLE) I THINK --

MS. CRUZ: WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE --

MR. GOODELL: -- I UNDERSTAND.

MS. CRUZ: YOU ASKED ME SO I GET TO ANSWER. WE

HAVE FOLKS WHO HAVE A DEFERRED ACTION FOR CHILDHOOD ARRIVAL. WE HAVE

FOLKS WHO HAVE -- WHO ARE ASYLEES. WE HAVE FOLKS WHO HAVE

PERMANENT RESIDENCES. WE HAVE FOLKS WHO HAVE NONE OF THOSE.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. NOW, ONE OF THE

PROHIBITIONS UNDER THIS BILL WOULD BE TO PROHIBIT ANY BOYCOTT OR

BLACKLIST RELATED TO ANY PERSON'S CITIZENSHIP OR IMMIGRATION STATUS,

CORRECT?

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MS. CRUZ: I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THE QUESTION.

MR. GOODELL: I'M LOOKING AT PAGE 9, LINE 18. IT

PROHIBITS ANY BOYCOTT OR BLACKLIST OF ANY PERSON BASED ON THEIR

CITIZENSHIP OR IMMIGRATION STATUS, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: YOU SAID PAGE WHAT? I'M SORRY, PAGE 9?

MR. GOODELL: YES.

MS. CRUZ: MM-HMM. GIVE ME A SECOND. AND

WHAT LINE WAS IT THAT YOU WANTED?

MR. GOODELL: STARTING ON PAGE -- LINE 16 THROUGH

19.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: SO THIS MEANS THEN IT WOULD BE

ILLEGAL IF THIS WAS PASSED AND GOES INTO LAW TO BOYCOTT ISRAELIS, FOR

EXAMPLE, OVER THE PALESTINIAN DISPUTE OR RUSSIANS CURRENTLY?

MS. CRUZ: IF YOU ARE DOING SO BASED ON THEIR

IMMIGRATION STATUS, NOT BASED ON WHERE THEY COME FROM.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, IT APPLIES TO CITIZENSHIP AS

WELL, RIGHT?

MS. CRUZ: CITIZENSHIP IN THE UNITED STATES. SO IF

SOMEONE, WHOEVER IT IS - AND I SEE WHAT LINE YOU'RE TRYING TO TAKE ME

DOWN - IF SOMEONE IS BEING DISCRIMINATED NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE

RUSSIAN, BUT BECAUSE THEY LACK CITIZENSHIP IN THIS COUNTRY.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, THIS -- BUT THIS SAYS -- I MEAN,

IT -- IT'S RIGHT IN BLACK AND WHITE, IT WOULD BE A DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICE

FOR ANY PERSON TO BOYCOTT OR BLACKLIST BASED ON, AMONG OTHER THINGS,

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

CITIZENSHIP OR IMMIGRATION STATUS, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: WHEN WE ARE REFERRING TO CITIZENSHIP,

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CITIZENSHIP IN THE UNITED STATES, NOT CITIZENSHIP IN

ANOTHER COUNTRY.

MR. GOODELL: SO DO WE -- I MEAN, DO WE NEED TO

SAY THAT WE CAN'T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST A U.S. CITIZEN? ARE THERE PEOPLE

OUT THERE ACTUALLY DISCRIMINATING AGAINST PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE A

LAWFUL U.S. CITIZEN?

MS. CRUZ: BECAUSE THEY ARE PERCEIVED TO NOT HAVE

LAWFUL U.S. CITIZENSHIP.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO BUT WE'RE NOT WORRIED

ABOUT U.S. CITIZENS BEING THE SUBJECT OF DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE THEY

ARE U.S. CITIZENS, RIGHT?

MS. CRUZ: WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT U.S. CITIZENS

BEING DISCRIMINATED BECAUSE THEY ARE PERCEIVED TO NOT HAVE U.S.

CITIZENSHIP.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO WOULD THIS PROHIBIT

DISCRIMINATION AGAINST PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR NON-U.S. CITIZENSHIP?

MS. CRUZ: IF YOU COULD WALK ME DOWN AN EXAMPLE

IT WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO LET'S SAY LONGSHOREMEN

REFUSED TO GO UNLOAD A SHIP BECAUSE IT'S OWNED BY A RUSSIAN. WOULD

THAT BE BARRED BY THIS BECAUSE THIS PROHIBITS A BOYCOTT OR BLACKLIST

BASED ON CITIZENSHIP?

MS. CRUZ: THIS DOES NOT COVER THAT BECAUSE, AGAIN,

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

HE IS BOYCOTTING HIM BASED ON BEING A RUSSIAN CITIZEN AND NOT BASED

ON BEING A U.S. CITIZEN WHO'S PERCEIVED TO NOT HAVE CITIZENSHIP.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. NOW LET'S MOVE TO A

DIFFERENT SECTION. THIS ALSO APPLIES TO APPLICATIONS FOR CREDIT, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: APPLICATIONS FOR WHAT? I'M SORRY?

MR. GOODELL: FOR CREDIT.

MS. CRUZ: CREDIT, YES. I DIDN'T HEAR THAT PART.

MR. GOODELL: SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT A U.S. BANK

OPERATING IN NEW YORK STATE WOULD VIOLATE THIS BILL IF THEY REFUSED TO

GIVE A LONG-TERM LOAN TO A PERSON WHO IS HERE LEGALLY ON A SHORT-TERM

VISA?

MS. CRUZ: IF YOU WERE TREATING THEM DIFFERENTLY

BECAUSE OF IT. SO THERE ARE FEDERAL REGULATIONS THAT A BANK HAS TO

FOLLOW BASED ON -- ON FEDERAL LAW. THIS DOES NOT TOUCH THAT -- THAT

SECTION OF THE LAW. WE DON'T HAVE ANY POWER TO DO THAT. WHAT WE ARE

SAYING IS IF YOU HAVE TWO PEOPLE, ONE HAS CITIZENSHIP, ONE DOESN'T, AND

YOU ARE TREATING THEM DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN PERCEPTIONS OF

WHO THEY ARE, YOU BEING THE -- THE BANK, THEN THAT WOULD FALL INTO --

INTO WHAT THIS LAW COVERS.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, COULD A BANK, FOR EXAMPLE, IF

THIS WERE TO PASS, REFUSE TO GIVE A LOAN TO A PERSON BASED ON THEIR LACK

OF LAWFUL IMMIGRATION STATUS IN THE UNITED STATES?

MS. CRUZ: THAT IS COVERED BY FEDERAL LAW, THAT IS

NOT COVERED BY HERE. IF THEY'RE -- IF THEY HAVE THE STATUS BUT THEY ARE

PERCEIVED TO NOT HAVE THAT STATUS, IF THE LOAN OFFICER IS MAKING A

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

DECISION BASED ON HOW THE PERSON LOOKS RATHER THAN THE DOCUMENTS THAT

THE FEDERAL LAW REQUIRES FOR SOMEONE TO PRESENT IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY

OPEN THE ACCOUNT, THEN YES. BUT IF THE BANK WAS FOLLOWING ALL THE

REGULATIONS AND DECIDED THAT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWING SOMEONE TO OPEN THE

ACCOUNT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT MEETING THE DOCUMENT REQUIREMENT, THEN

THAT IS NOT COVERED BY HERE.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. I -- I KNOW YOU KEEP TALKING

ABOUT PERCEIVED, PERCEIVED, PERCEIVED. CAN YOU SHOW ME ANYWHERE IN

THIS BILL WHAT LINE, WHAT PAGE WE TALK ABOUT PERCEPTION?

MS. CRUZ: SO --

MR. GOODELL: I'M JUST LOOKING FOR THE REFERENCE

SO I CAN LOOK AT IT. BECAUSE TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I'VE READ THE WHOLE

THING, ALL 12 PAGES. I DIDN'T SEE ANY REFERENCE TO PERCEPTION. WHAT I

DID SEE IS UNEQUIVOCAL LANGUAGE WHICH SAYS, AS AN EXAMPLE, IT'S AN

UNLAWFUL DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICE FOR ANY CREDITOR IN THE CASE OF

APPLICATIONS FOR CREDIT - THAT'D BE FOR A LOAN - WITH RESPECT -- WITH

RESPECT TO THE PURCHASE OF ANYTHING, TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THE

APPLICANT BASED ON, UNDER THIS BILL, CITIZENSHIP OR IMMIGRATION STATUS.

SO ASSUMING A BANK IS NOT PROHIBITED BY FEDERAL LAW FOR MAKING THE

LOAN, AM I CORRECT THAT IF THIS PASSES IT WOULD MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR A BANK

TO REFUSE A LOAN TO A PERSON WHO IS HERE ON A TEMPORARY BASIS?

MS. CRUZ: IF THE PERSON IS MEETING EVERY SINGLE

REQUIREMENT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS IMPOSED ON THE BANK AS

TO WHEN AND HOW THEY CAN OPEN AN ACCOUNT FOR A PARTICULAR PERSON,

WHETHER THEY'RE HERE WITH A VISA, UNDOCUMENTED OR CITIZEN, AND THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

BANK -- THE TELLER OR THE STAFF OR WHOEVER IT IS, IS CHOOSING TO NOT OPEN

THAT ACCOUNT SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS, THEN

THEY WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF THIS LAW.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. I THINK I UNDERSTAND. SO IF

THEY DO HAVE A TAXPAYER IDENTIFICATION NUMBER, WHICH YOU WOULD GIVE,

FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAD AN H-1 OR AN H-1B --

MS. CRUZ: I'M SORRY, CAN YOU -- I -- I HATE TO DO

THIS, BUT CAN YOU SPEAK A LITTLE BIT LOUDER? YOU SAID SOMETHING NUMBER

AND I MISSED THAT PART.

MR. GOODELL: SO IF THEY HAVE A VALID TAXPAYER

IDENTIFICATION NUMBER --

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. GOODELL: -- BECAUSE THEY'RE HERE LEGALLY ON A

TEMPORARY VISA THAT AUTHORIZES THEM TO WORK IN THE U.S., LIKE AN H-1 OR

AN H-1B OR MAYBE -- YOU KNOW, MAYBE EVEN A B-1 VISA, SO THAT A BANK

COULD, UNDER FEDERAL LAW, MAKE A LOAN BECAUSE UNDER FEDERAL LAW YOU

HAVE TO HAVE DOCUMENTATION INCLUDING A TAXPAYER IDENTIFICATION

NUMBER. THIS WOULD IMPOSE A NEW RESTRICTION THAT SAYS A BANK WOULD

VIOLATE THIS LAW IF THEY REFUSE TO MAKE A LONG-TERM LOAN TO SOMEONE

WHO IS HERE ON A SHORT-TERM VISA.

MS. CRUZ: SO, I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH BANKING LAW

BUT I'M GOING TO ASSUME THAT FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES OF THIS

CONVERSATION, THE BANK HAS CERTAIN REGULATIONS THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW AS

TO WHO THEY ALLOW TO HAVE LONG-TERM LOANS VERSUS SHORT-TERM LOANS,

WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENTS THEY NEED, WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENTS THEY --

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THEY WILL NOT ACCEPT. IF THIS PERSON MEETS EVERY OTHER REQUIREMENT AND

THE BANK CHOOSES, NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE BARRED BY FEDERAL LAW, BUT

SIMPLY CHOOSES BECAUSE THEY SIMPLY DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT THIS PERSON

IS HERE ON A TEMPORARY VISA OR EVEN UNDOCUMENTED, THEN THEY WOULD BE

IN VIOLATION OF THIS LAW. AND -- AND THE CLOSEST EXAMPLE I CAN THINK OF

IS WHEN I WAS UNDOCUMENTED I WAS IN LAW SCHOOL, MY LAST YEAR, AND I

HAD -- I HAD NOT BECOME A CITIZEN JUST YET. AND WHEN YOU'RE NOT A

CITIZEN THERE ARE CERTAIN -- THERE ARE CERTAIN LOANS YOU CAN'T QUALIFY FOR.

I HAD NO FINANCIAL RECORD BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A CREDIT CARD. AND SO I

HAD TO GET -- IN ORDER TO GET A BAR STUDY LOAN, I HAD TO GET SOMEONE TO

COSIGN WITH ME. IF THAT PARTICULAR BANK - WHICH WE HAVE ONE HERE, KEY

BANK - IF THAT PARTICULAR BANK HAD CHOSEN TO TREAT ME DIFFERENTLY AND

BAR ME FROM OBTAINING IT EVEN THOUGH I MET EVERY OTHER REQUIREMENT,

THEN THEY WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF THIS LAW HAD THAT LAW BEEN IN PLACE

BACK THEN. BUT I PRESUME THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN VERY

CLEAR WITH A LOT OF THESE BANKING INSTITUTIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES

TO FOLKS WHO ARE NOT HERE ON A PERMANENT BASIS WHEN THEY CAN OPEN AN

ACCOUNT AND WHEN THEY CANNOT.

MR. GOODELL: I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY OF THOSE

RESTRICTIONS, AND I THINK YOU ALSO SAID YOU WEREN'T AWARE OF ANY FEDERAL

BANKING RESTRICTIONS THAT APPLY IN THAT SITUATION, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, OTHER THAN MY OWN PERSONAL ONE I

AM NOT. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, LET'S ASSUME FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS

CONVERSATION THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS PLACED ON THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT BECAUSE I AM ALMOST SURE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

PLACED CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS ON WHAT PEOPLE --

MR. GOODELL: AND JUST --

MS. CRUZ: CAN I FINISH? WHEN PEOPLE --

MR. GOODELL: SO THE TWO OF US ARE CLEAR --

MS. CRUZ: GO AHEAD. I WILL -- I WILL LET YOU FINISH

SINCE YOU WON'T LET ME.

MR. GOODELL: I THINK THE WHOLE (INAUDIBLE) THIS

BILL DOES NOT ATTEMPT TO OVERRIDE ANY FEDERAL --

MS. CRUZ: WE ARE NOT TRYING TO DO THAT, AND THAT'S

WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY FOR THE LAST FIVE MINUTES.

MR. GOODELL: AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND I'M

NOT INTERESTED IN ANY EFFORT TO OVERRIDE FEDERAL STANDARDS. SO MAYBE

OUR DISCUSSION WILL BE EASIER IF WE BOTH UNDERSTAND AND AGREE WE'RE NOT

TRYING TO OVERRIDE FEDERAL RESTRICTIONS.

MS. CRUZ: ABSOLUTELY NOT. YES.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, ONE OF THE PROVISIONS IN THIS

BILL MAKES IT A DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICE FOR AN EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION TO

DENY THE USE OF ITS FACILITIES OR ITS OPPORTUNITIES BASED ON IMMIGRANT

STATUS. AS YOU KNOW, FOREIGN -- NEW YORK STATE IS THE BENEFICIARY OF A

LOT OF FOREIGN STUDENTS. THEY COME IN ON AN F-1 VISA. THE UNITED

STATES AS A WHOLE ISSUES LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF F-1 VISAS.

THEY'RE A PARTICULAR VISA FOR STUDENTS. IF THIS PASSES, AM I CORRECT THAT A

UNIVERSITY OR A SCHOOL COULD NOT BAR THE USE OF ITS FACILITIES FOR

SOMEONE WHOSE F-1 VISA EXPIRED OR IS HERE WITHOUT A PROPER F-1?

MS. CRUZ: NOW THAT SOMEONE I'M MUCH MORE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

FAMILIAR WITH. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY PLACES REGULATIONS ON

STUDENTS THAT HAVE F-1 VISAS AND OTHER STUDENT VISAS THAT THEY ACTUALLY

CANNOT CONTINUE TO STUDY IN THAT PARTICULAR INSTITUTION. SO THAT'S

COVERED BY A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SET OF REGULATIONS. WHAT THIS SAYS IS

IF YOU HAVE TWO STUDENTS, ONE IS A CITIZEN -- THREE STUDENTS, THE SECOND

ONE IS A PERMANENT RESIDENT, THIRD ONE IS AN F-1 VISA, YOU'VE GOT TO TREAT

THEM ALL THE SAME. IF THEY ALL QUALIFY FOR EVERYTHING ELSE TO COME INTO

THE EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. THIS ALSO PROHIBITS

DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ANYONE PARTICIPATING IN THE NEW YORK NATIONAL

GUARD BASED ON THEIR CITIZENSHIP STATUS, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: LET ME DOUBLE CHECK THAT. HOLD ON.

MR. GOODELL: THAT'S ON PAGE 4 ON LINE 43, 44.

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: SO IT'S THE SAME AS WE'VE SAID BEFORE. IF

YOU MEET EVERY OTHER REQUIREMENT AND YOU'RE SIMPLY TREATED DIFFERENTLY

BECAUSE YOU HAVE CITIZENSHIP VERSUS PERMANENT RESIDENCY, IT WOULD BE

COVERED BY THIS BILL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. CRUZ. I

APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: SO WHAT THIS BILL SAYS IS THAT A LARGE

SEGMENT OF NEW YORK STATE WOULD BE BARRED FROM CONSIDERING A

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS. AND IF YOU JUST PUT IT IN CRYSTAL CLEAR

LANGUAGE, THIS BILL UNEQUIVOCALLY IN BLACK AND WHITE SAYS THAT THE NEW

YORK STATE NATIONAL GUARD CANNOT REQUIRE YOU TO BE A CITIZEN OF THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. OR A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES. IT WOULD BE

ILLEGAL FOR THE NEW YORK STATE NATIONAL GUARD TO REFUSE TO ALLOW

SOMEONE TO JOIN WHO IS FROM A FOREIGN COUNTRY AND IS HERE ILLEGALLY.

THIS BILL MAKES IT CLEAR THAT IF A BANK CAN EVER OTHERWISE MAKE A LOAN,

THEY CAN'T REFUSE THE LOAN BECAUSE THE PERSON'S HERE ILLEGALLY OR IS HERE

ON A SHORT-TERM VISA. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE. SOMEONE HERE

WHO'S ON A SHORT-TERM VISA, LET'S ASSUME THEY'RE 100 PERCENT HONEST AND

LAW-ABIDING, THEY HAVE ONE YEAR LEFT ON THEIR VISA, THEY GO INTO A BANK

AND THEY SAY, I WANT TO TAKE OUT A FIVE-YEAR LOAN, AND THIS BILL WOULD

MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR THAT BANK TO GIVE THEM -- TO SAY, NO, WE'RE NOT GOING

TO GIVE YOU A FIVE-YEAR LOAN WHEN YOU'RE HERE ON A ONE-YEAR VISA.

THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. THIS BILL SAYS THAT YOU CAN'T DISCRIMINATE

AGAINST A PERSON BASED ON THEIR VISA STATUS OR LACK OF STATUS.

(BUZZER SOUNDS)

SIR, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE QUEUE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NO, THERE IS NOT, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THEN IF I MAY, I'LL WRAP UP.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU ABSOLUTELY MAY.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. THIS SAYS THAT YOU

CAN'T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST A PERSON BASED ON THEIR LACK OF IMMIGRATION

STATUS OR -- OR BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT -- THEY'RE HERE ON A SHORT-TERM VISA OR

A VISA THAT DOESN'T ALLOW THEM TO WORK WHEN IT COMES TO PARTICIPATING

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

IN A JOB TRAINING PROGRAM. SO WE USE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF

DOLLARS OF NEW YORK STATE TAXPAYER MONEY FOR A JOB TRAINING PROGRAM,

AND IF THIS BILL PASSES IT'S ILLEGAL TO SAY TO SOMEBODY, SINCE YOU CAN'T

WORK HERE LEGALLY WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU JOB TRAINING. SINCE YOU

DON'T HAVE AN F VISA. SINCE YOU'RE HERE ON A VISITOR'S VISA. IT WOULD

MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR NEW YORK STATE TO SAY, YOU HAVE TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR

THE JOB THAT WE'RE TRAINING YOU FOR IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THE JOB

TRAINING PROGRAM. THIS WOULD SAY THAT NOTWITHSTANDING THE FEDERAL

RULES, IF YOU VIOLATE YOUR F-1 VISA WHEN YOU'RE HERE AS A STUDENT THE

UNIVERSITY COULDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL FOR

A UNIVERSITY TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST ANYONE BASED ON THEIR IMMIGRANT

STATUS OR LACK THEREOF, WHICH INCLUDES STUDENTS THAT ARE VIOLATING THEIR

F-1 VISA.

THIS BILL IS VERY CLEAR THAT YOU CAN CAN'T BOYCOTT OR

BLACKLIST A PERSON BASED ON THEIR CITIZENSHIP OR LACK OF U.S.

CITIZENSHIP, WHICH MEANS IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL UNDER NEW YORK STATE

LAW TO REFUSE TO UNLOAD A RUSSIAN-OWNED SHIP OR TO OTHERWISE

PARTICIPATE IN ANY NUMBER OF BOYCOTTS WHICH MEMBERS OF THIS

LEGISLATURE HAVE OPENLY SUPPORTED, WHETHER IT'S A BOYCOTT AGAINST

ISRAEL OR ISRAELIS BASED ON THE PALESTINIAN SITUATION. OR EARLIER THERE

WAS A BOYCOTT AGAINST SOUTH AFRICANS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T LIKE HOW THEIR

GOVERNMENT WAS RUN. BY THE WAY, I AGREE WITH THAT CONCEPT. OR

BOYCOTT NOW AGAINST RUSSIANS.

SO I APPRECIATE THE DESIRE OF THE SPONSOR TO SAY THAT IF

YOU'RE HERE LEGALLY OR ILLEGALLY THAT WE OUGHT TO TREAT YOU FIRST AND

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

FOREMOST AS A HUMAN BEING, I AGREE WITH THAT CONCEPT. AND I ACTUALLY

STARTED MY LEGAL CAREER DOING IMMIGRATION WORK. I WORKED FOR DAVE

CROSLAND, WHO WAS THE HEAD OF THE IMMIGRATION SERVICE UNDER

PRESIDENT CARTER. AND EVERY DAY, ALL DAY LONG, ALL I DID WAS TRY TO HELP

IMMIGRANTS GET INTO THE UNITED STATES LEGALLY. BUT WE ALSO TOLD

EVERYONE WE GOT INTO THE UNITED STATES LEGALLY, YOU HAVE A VISA, AN

H-1 VISA. IT ALLOWS YOU TO WORK FOR A PARTICULAR EMPLOYER. AND IF

YOU'RE GOING TO CHANGE JOBS YOU'VE GOT TO COME BACK AND WE HAVE TO

GET PERMISSION. AND THE REASON YOU HAVE TO GET PERMISSION IS BECAUSE

BEFORE YOU CAN GET AN H-1 VISA IN THE UNITED STATES YOU HAVE TO PROVE

THAT THE AMERICAN EMPLOYER COULD NOT FIND AN AMERICAN WORKER FOR

THAT JOB. IT'S DESIGNED TO PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS. WE DON'T SAY,

COME ON IN, DISPLACE ALL THE AMERICAN WORKERS YOU WANT. THERE IS A

FORMAL PROCESS TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN YOU COME IN ON AN H-1 VISA

YOU'RE NOT DISPLACING AN AMERICAN WORKER. AND THERE'S A PROCESS TO

MAKE SURE WHEN YOU COME IN ON A B-1 VISA, A VISITOR'S VISA, YOU ARE

NOT DISPLACING AN AMERICAN WORKER. YOU'RE NOT WORKING UNDER THE

TABLE, YOU'RE NOT VIOLATING THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF YOUR VISA. IF

YOU COME IN ON AN EXCHANGE PROGRAM, AN L-1 OR AN L-2 OR ON ANY

GOVERNMENT TRANSFER, IF YOU COME IN ON AN INTERCOMPANY TRANSFER FROM

A FOREIGN COUNTRY YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK FOR SOMEBODY ELSE

WITHOUT COMPLYING WITH THE RESTRICTIONS. AND SO WHAT'S THIS BILL DO?

THIS BILL SAYS YOU CAN PARTICIPATE IN JOB TRAINING PROGRAMS FUNDED BY

THE STATE OF NEW YORK EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT ELIGIBLE TO WORK IN THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. YOU CAN APPLY FOR AND SERVE IN THE NEW YORK

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

NATIONAL GUARD EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT A CITIZEN AND YOU'RE HERE

ILLEGALLY. YOU CAN APPLY FOR A LOAN FROM A BANK AND THE BANK HAS TO

GIVE YOU THAT LOAN IF YOU MEET ALL THE OTHER CRITERIA EVEN THOUGH THE

BANK MAY HAVE TO BE CHASING YOU IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY TO GET

REPAYMENT.

I APPRECIATE THE CONCEPT, BUT THIS BILL GOES WAY TOO

FAR. AND WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE IMMIGRATION PROGRAM IS

DESIGNED TO PROTECT OUR AMERICAN WORKERS. AND THAT WHEN THERE'S A

LACK OF AMERICAN WORKERS, THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO PROVIDE VISAS TO

HELP PEOPLE WHO WANT TO COME TO AMERICA, WHO WANT TO WORK, WANT TO

FILL THAT VACANCY, DO A GREAT JOB. BUT TO THROW OUT ALL OF THOSE

RESTRICTIONS WHOLESALE AS IT APPLIES TO NEW YORK STATE IS INAPPROPRIATE.

AND FOR THAT REASON I'LL RECOMMEND AGAINST IT TO MY COLLEAGUES.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. CRUZ.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

MS. CRUZ: SO, DESPITE MY COLLEAGUE'S INCORRECT

ASSESSMENT OF THIS BILL, WE ARE NOT TRYING TO CHANGE FEDERAL LAW, IN

SPITE OF HOW MUCH I WOULD LIKE TO. WE DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO DO

THAT. THIS BILL IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE WHO AN EMPLOYER CAN LEGALLY HIRE

OR CANNOT. WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENTS YOU HAVE TO DEM -- TO ACTUALLY

SHOW AN EMPLOYER WHEN YOU GO APPLY. IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE WHEN

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

YOU GO TO COLLEGE, WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENTS THE UNIVERSITY GETS TO ASK

FOR OR HOW AN A-1 OR ANY OF THOSE VISAS ACTUALLY COME INTO PLAY. WE'RE

NOT CHANGING ANY OF THAT. WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS IF YOU ARE AN

EMPLOYER AND YOU HAVE ONE WORKER WHO IS A U.S. CITIZEN AND YOU

DECIDED TO HIRE SOMEONE ELSE WHO HAPPENS TO BE AN UNDOCUMENTED

PERSON, YOU'VE GOT TO TREAT THEM BOTH THE SAME. YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO

USE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS TO TREAT THEM ANY DIFFERENT. TO

THREATEN THEIR EXISTENCE. TO STOP THEM FROM FILING A CLAIM AGAINST YOU

WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR. THAT IS WHAT WE'RE SAYING. WE ARE

SAYING YOU HAVE TO TREAT PEOPLE THE SAME.

WE CLAIM TO BE A STATE THAT SUPPORTS AND RESPECTS AND

FIGHTS FOR IMMIGRANTS, BUT IN MY OWN COMMUNITY I'VE HAD NOW TWO

DOZEN CASES OF WORKERS AND TENANTS WHERE THEIR IMMIGRATION OR

PERCEIVED IMMIGRATION STATUS OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS HAS BEEN USED

AGAINST THEM, HAS BEEN USED TO TRY TO GET THEM TO MOVE OUT OF THEIR

APARTMENT. HAS BEEN USED TO TRY TO GET THEM TO WITHDRAW A CLAIM FROM

THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR FOR OWED -- FRANKLY, FOR STOLEN WAGES. THIS IS

A LAW THAT ACTUALLY HAS EXISTED FOR QUITE SOME TIME IN THE CITY OF NEW

YORK AND HAS HELD PEOPLE WHO DISCRIMINATED AGAINST OTHER PEOPLE

BECAUSE OF THEIR IMMIGRATION STATUS OR LACK OF IMMIGRATION STATUS

ACCOUNTABLE. THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO THAT IN THE REST OF THE STATE. IF

WE ARE TRULY THE KIND OF STATE WHO PROTECT IMMIGRANTS, THEN THIS IS A

LAW THAT WE HAVE TO PASS. WE ARE NOT MEDDLING IN FEDERAL AFFAIRS. WE

ARE SIMPLY SAYING, IF YOU ARE LIVING IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND YOU

HAPPEN TO BE AN IMMIGRANT, WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET ANYONE DISCRIMINATE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

AGAINST YOU. AND FRANKLY, THIS IS A LONG-OVERDUE LAW. THIS IS A

MESSAGE TO IMMIGRANTS THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET YOUR EMPLOYER, YOUR

LANDLORD OR ANYONE USE YOUR IMMIGRATION STATUS AGAINST YOU. THE

NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT I SAW WHEN I WORKED AT THE DEPARTMENT OF

LABOR DOING INVESTIGATIONS OF WAGE THEFT THAT HAD THEIR IMMIGRATION

STATUS USED AGAINST THEM EITHER TO KEEP THEM WORKING LONGER, TO PAY

THEM LESS OR TO GET THEM TO WITHDRAW THEIR CLAIM, I CAN'T COUNT THE

NUMBER OF TIMES THAT I ENCOUNTERED THOSE CASES.

THE MESSAGE THAT I WANT TO SEND TO MY NEIGHBORS, TO

IMMIGRANTS AROUND NEW YORK IS THAT YOU MATTER. IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT

INVESTING MONEY. WE CAN'T THROW MONEY AT EVERYTHING. WE CAN'T JUST

SAY WE'RE GOING TO PASS A BUDGET AND WE'RE GOING TO SUPPORT

IMMIGRANTS. WE HAVE TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THEY VIOLATE

THE LAW, AND THAT -- THIS IS WHAT THIS LAW WILL DO.

(SPEAKING SPANISH)

I'M GOING BE VOTING YES, OBVIOUSLY. BUT I WANT TO

URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT EVERY SINGLE TIME ONE

OF US ON THIS SIDE OF THE AISLE RUNS FOR ELECTION, THERE'S IMMIGRANTS IN

OUR COMMUNITY WHO ARE DEPENDING ON US TO MAKE THEIR LIVES BETTER.

NOT BECAUSE THEY CAN VOTE FOR US, BECAUSE MANY OF THEM CAN'T. BUT

BECAUSE THEY SEE HOPE IN WHAT WE DO HERE AS A LEGISLATURE. AND WHAT

THIS DOES IS TELL THEM THAT POLICYMAKING MATTERS. THAT THEY MATTER, AND

THAT IN NEW YORK WE'RE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT ANY ABUSE AGAINST

IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. DE LOS SANTOS.

MR. DE LOS SANTOS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I

WANT TO COMMEND MY COLLEAGUE FOR INTRODUCING THIS IMPORTANT

LEGISLATION. AS A FORMER SOCIAL WORKER AND SOMEONE WHO REPRESENTED

A COMMUNITY OF IMMIGRANTS AND OFTENTIMES STRUGGLED WITH SORT OF A

FORM OF DISCRIMINATION, I PERFECTLY UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF

TODAY'S PIECE OF LEGISLATION. AND IT NEVER HAS BEEN MORE IMPORTANT

THAN TODAY AS WE CONTINUE TO RECOVER FROM THIS PANDEMIC. AND MANY,

MANY AMERICANS AND OUR IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY CONTINUE TO BE

TARGETED AND CONTINUED TO BE DISCRIMINATED. AND I KNOW THAT BECAUSE

I'VE DEALT WITH MANY SITUATIONS MYSELF, AND BECAUSE OF THAT I WANT TO

ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AS I WILL ALSO VOTE

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 6328-A. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THOSE WHO

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY VOTE HERE ON THE FLOOR, AND IF THEY'RE COVID-

IMPACTED CAN CALL THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND ADVISE THEM OF

THEIR VOTE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, SHOULD COLLEAGUES DECIDE TO BE AN

EXCEPTION THEY SHOULD CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE. THEIR

VOTE WILL BE PROPERLY RECORDED.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER J.D. RIVERA: MR. AUBRY TO

EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. AUBRY: CERTAINLY. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER,

FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. CERTAINLY I AM SUPPORTIVE OF THIS

LEGISLATION. AND IT OCCURRED TO ME WHILE I WAS LISTENING TO THIS

ARGUMENT -- BECAUSE YOU KNOW I -- I LIKE TO THINK ABOUT HISTORY -- THAT

IF YOU WERE ITALIAN OR GERMAN OR ANY NUMBER OF GROUPS AND CAME TO

THIS COUNTRY, YOU SUFFERED DISCRIMINATION WHEN YOU CAME HERE. IT WAS

(INAUDIBLE). GO BACK AND TALK TO YOUR GRANDFATHERS OR YOUR -- YOUR

LONG RELATIVES. YOU WILL KNOW THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO THEM, THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THEY WERE ABUSED BY THE FOLKS WHO WERE HERE ALREADY. I DON'T KNOW

WHY THAT HAPPENS, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW IN OUR

HISTORY. YOU SEARCH YOUR FAMILY HISTORY AND YOU WILL FIND THAT. IT

WASN'T RIGHT THEN, IT ISN'T RIGHT NOW. WE ARE AN EMERGING COUNTRY.

WE'RE A COUNTRY WHERE MANY PEOPLE COME BECAUSE OF WHAT WE STAND

FOR. SHALL WE ABUSE THEM WHEN THEY COME? SHALL WE DO THINGS TO

THEM THAT WE WOULDN'T WANT WOULD HAVE DONE TO MY GRANDPARENTS,

YOUR GRANDPARENTS?

SO I STAND WITH THIS BILL, STAND WITH THE SPONSOR, AND

STAND WITH THE CHANGING AMERICAN HISTORY THAT WE LIVE IN TODAY. YOU

HAVE TO STAND FOR CHANGE AND FOR JUSTICE, EVEN WHEN WE GREW OUT OF

INJUSTICE.

I REMOVE MY RESULT [SIC] AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER J.D. RIVERA: MR. AUBRY IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. LAWLER.

MR. LAWLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU

KNOW, I AM REMINDED BY THE SPEAKER PRO TEM AS SOMEONE WHO IS OF

IRISH AND ITALIAN DESCENT THAT, YES, IRISH IMMIGRANTS AND ITALIAN

IMMIGRANTS WERE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST WHEN THEY CAME HERE. AND IN

MUCH THE SAME WAY THAT MANY ETHNIC GROUPS AND THOSE OF DIFFERENT

FAITHS ARE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. AND WE MET THIS MORNING AND GOT A

REPORT ON ANTI-SEMITISM IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND IN THE COUNTRY.

DISCRIMINATION IS WRONG AT EVERY LEVEL, AND HATRED IS WRONG AT EVERY

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

LEVEL. AND I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT A BILL SUCH AS THIS, THE INTENT IS

RIGHT. THE INTENT IS TO ENSURE THAT NO ONE INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP IS

DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. MY WIFE CAME HERE ON A VISA TO THIS COUNTRY

ALMOST A DECADE AGO. WHEN WE GOT MARRIED WE HAD TO GO THROUGH THE

IMMIGRATION PROCESS, AND ULTIMATELY SHE GOT HER GREEN CARD AND SHE

BECAME A CITIZEN IN DECEMBER OF 2020. SO I UNDERSTAND THE

IMMIGRATION PROCESS. I UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM. IT IS A VERY FLAWED

SYSTEM THAT NEEDS A LOT OF REFORM AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. AND I DO HAVE

CONCERN WITH RESPECT TO THE CONTINUED INFLUX OF UNDOCUMENTED

IMMIGRANTS WITHOUT A MEANINGFUL CHANGE TO THE SYSTEM TO ENSURE THAT

EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO COME HERE CAN DO SO LEGALLY. I THINK THAT NEEDS

TO BE FIXED. I THINK OUR BORDER CRISIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED. IT IS WRONG. IT

IS A FAILURE OF GOVERNMENT. BUT I ALSO BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT ON A HUMAN

LEVEL WE CANNOT DISCRIMINATE.

(BUZZER SOUNDS)

AND I JUST ASK FOR ONE LAST SECOND. I THINK IT IS CRITICAL

IN A STATE AND A COUNTRY THAT WAS BUILT ON THE BACKS OF IMMIGRANTS THAT

WE WELCOME IMMIGRANTS TO THIS COUNTRY. WE WANT THEM TO THRIVE. WE

WANT THEM TO SUCCEED. WE ARE BETTER FOR IT. WE WANT THEM TO COME

HERE LEGALLY, AND IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

AND SO I WILL SUPPORT THIS BILL BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT

ANYONE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. BUT WE HAVE TO FIX THE SYSTEM AT A

FEDERAL LEVEL. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU'RE WELCOME, MR.

LAWLER. AND YOU OWE ME ABOUT FIVE SECONDS. THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. LAWLER: I WON'T SPEAK FOR THE REST OF THE DAY.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: OH, MY. A ROUND OF

APPLAUSE. THAT'S ALMOST LIKE PASSING YOUR FIRST BILL.

(LAUGHTER)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I REALIZE

IT'S A CHALLENGE SOMETIMES TO STAY WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF OUR RULES,

BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF ALL COLLEAGUES WOULD HONOR THAT. THE OTHER

DAY WE HAD THE UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT OF BEING -- A SLOW ROLL CALL BEING

CALLED. WE WERE FORCED TO FOLLOW ALL OF THOSE RULES EVEN THOUGH THERE

WERE SOME PEOPLE WHO HAD A CHALLENGE MAKING IT OVER HERE TO THIS

CHAMBER. IF WE CAN ENFORCE THAT TO HAPPEN, THEN CLEARLY WE CAN MAKE

SURE PEOPLE STAY WITHIN THE TIME FRAME FOR THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.

PLEASE, MR. SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES, JUST DON'T HONOR

SOME OF THE RULES AND DON'T HONOR ALL OF THEM.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO -- SO NOTED, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. MY CONFERENCE,

I'M SURE, TO THIS -- TO EVERY SINGLE MEMBER FULLY SUPPORTS LAWFUL

IMMIGRATION. WE ALL RECOGNIZE IT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE WHAT AN

INCREDIBLE BENEFIT NEW YORK STATE HAS AND THE NATION HAS WITH THE

INCREDIBLE TALENT AND BACKGROUND AND CULTURE THAT WE'VE BEEN

BENEFITTED -- THAT WE'VE RECEIVED AND WE'VE BENEFITTED FROM FROM ALL

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

AROUND THE WORLD. AND SO WE FULLY SUPPORT LAWFUL IMMIGRATION. THE

H-1 VISA PROGRAM. GREAT PROGRAM. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE

COME HERE FOR TEMPORARY WORK, HELPING SPECIFIC EMPLOYERS THAT CAN'T

RECRUIT AMERICAN WORKERS. THE F-1 STUDENT VISA PROGRAM IS A

PHENOMENAL PROGRAM. E-1 TREATY TRADERS, L-1 INTRACOMPANY

TRANSFERS, J-1, THE EXCHANGE PROGRAM. ALL OF THESE ARE TEMPORARY

VISAS WITH NO NUMERICAL LIMITATION, ALL DESIGNED TO HELP STRENGTHEN OUR

ECONOMY AND OUR NATION AND OUR CULTURE. AND OF COURSE WE HAVE A

NUMBER OF PERMANENT RESIDENCY VISAS, AS MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED.

BUT WHAT I CAN'T SUPPORT IS PROVIDING JOB TRAINING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE

HERE ILLEGALLY FOR JOBS THEY CANNOT TAKE LEGALLY AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSES.

OR FORCING COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES TO MAKE THEIR FACILITIES AVAILABLE

FOR STUDENTS WHOSE F-1 VISA HAS EXPIRED AND ARE NO LONGER HERE. OR

REQUIRING OUR NATIONAL GUARD TO TAKE AS MEMBERS WITHOUT

DISCRIMINATION PEOPLE WHO AREN'T CITIZENS, WHO AREN'T HERE LEGALLY. OR

REQUIRE BANKS TO MAKE LOANS TO PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GO THROUGH ANY OF

THIS PROCESS, WHO DIDN'T GET ANY OF THOSE TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT VISAS

WHO NEVER WENT THROUGH A BACKGROUND CHECK TO REQUIRE THEM TO MAKE

LOANS.

WE HAVE BENEFITTED FROM IMMIGRATION. BUT WE NEED

TO DO IT IN A LAWFUL MANNER AND SUPPORT LAWFUL IMMIGRATION, NOT MAKE

IT ILLEGAL TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WILL BE

VOTING FOR THIS BILL. I'VE LOOKED AT THE LANGUAGE IN THE -- THE BILL, AND I

JUST WANT TO ASSURE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE CONCERNED THAT THERE MIGHT

BE AN AREA OF EMPLOYMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE CITIZENSHIP MIGHT BE A

REQUIREMENT, A BONA FIDE OCCUPATIONAL QUALIFICATION, THERE'S A VERY

CLEAR EXCEPTION IN THIS BILL FOR THAT. AND SO THAT WILL NOT BE THE CASE.

AND THAT IF, IN FACT, THERE IS AN AREA THAT WOULD NOT BE APPLICABLE

BECAUSE OF FEDERAL LAW THAT THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE WOULD RULE AND --

AND WOULD PREEMPT STATE LAW IN THOSE NARROW CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE

THAT MIGHT BE THE CASE THAT SOMEONE HAS NOT YET ENVISIONED.

I ALSO WANTED TO SAY THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS

PROHIBITS IS DISCRIMINATION. IT'S ABOUT DISCRIMINATION AGAINST PEOPLE

BASED ON CITIZENSHIP OR IMMIGRATION STATUS. AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF

SOMEONE HAS EMPLOYED SOMEONE WITH A GREEN CARD AND THEY HAVE

ENGAGED IN PROTECTED ACTIVITY AND SUPPORTED ANOTHER MEMBER OF THEIR

-- ANOTHER EMPLOYEE WHO IS BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, THAT PERSON

WITH A GREEN CARD WHO STOOD UP FOR ANOTHER EMPLOYEE'S RIGHTS OR FOR

WHATEVER REASON CAN'T BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF

PROTECTIONS WE NEED.

WE NEED (INAUDIBLE) OUR WORKERS FEEL SAFE REGARDLESS

OF IMMIGRATION OR CITIZENSHIP STATUS, AND THAT'S ALL THIS BILL DOES. AND

I'M PLEASED TO SUPPORT IT AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SIMON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SPEAKER. PLEASE

RECORD MY COLLEAGUES MR. DESTEFANO, MR. DURSO AND MR. MONTESANO

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. IF YOU WOULD PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUES MR. BURKE AND

MR. CONRAD IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 5, RULES REPORT NO. 91, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09601-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 91, LUCAS, MEEKS, WEPRIN, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION BASED ON

STATUS AS A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

LUCAS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MS. LUCAS.

MS. LUCAS: ALL NEW YORKERS DESERVE THE RIGHT TO

ATTEND SCHOOL --

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. -- YOU'LL HAVE TO

TURN ON YOUR MIC AND START OVER.

MS. LUCAS: ALL NEW YORKERS DESERVE THE RIGHT TO

ATTEND SCHOOL AND OBTAIN HOUSING, EMPLOYMENT AND CREDIT WITHOUT FEAR

OF DISCRIMINATION OR HARASSMENT. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE REMAINS A

PERVASIVE ISSUE IN OUR SOCIETY WHICH CAN SHOW UP IN A VARIETY OF FORMS,

AND OF COURSE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF RELATIONSHIPS. THE CENTERS

FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION REPORTS THAT ONE IN FOUR WOMEN

AND ONE IN SEVEN MEN WILL EXPERIENCE SEVERE PHYSICAL VIOLENCE BY AN

INTIMATE PARTNER IN THEIR LIFETIME. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AFFECTS MANY

NEW YORKERS AND FURTHER HAS A DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT ON

MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES INCLUDING PEOPLE OF COLOR AND LGBTQIA+

INDIVIDUALS. UNDER CURRENT LAW, STATUS AS A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE IS INCLUDED AS A PROTECTED CLASS RELATED TO EMPLOYMENT. THIS

BILL WILL EXPAND PROTECTIONS FOR VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE BY

ADDING STATUS AS A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AS A PROTECTED CLASS IN

REMAINING JURISDICTIONAL AREAS UNDER THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW,

INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS, PRIVATE AND

PUBLICLY-ASSISTED HOUSING, EDUCATION AND CREDIT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. AND I APPRECIATE

THE SPONSOR'S COMMENTS. WOULD SHE YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. --

MS. LUCAS: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WILL YOU YIELD?

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE SPONSOR YIELDS. MS. LUCAS YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. AS GOOD LUCK WOULD

HAVE IT I HAVE THREE DAUGHTERS, AND OF COURSE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS AN

ISSUE THAT AFFECTS NOT JUST WOMEN BUT MEN AS WELL. AND AS YOU

CORRECTLY NO DOUBT NOTED, IT'S A VERY SERIOUS ISSUE AND OFTEN HAS SERIOUS

CONSEQUENCES. I HAD A FEW QUESTIONS, THOUGH, ON HOW THIS BILL WOULD

ACTUALLY WORK IN PRACTICE, AND I WAS HOPING YOU COULD HELP CLARIFY THAT.

AS I UNDERSTAND, THE DEFINITION OF A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS

CROSS-REFERENCED IN THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW AND CROSS- REFERENCED

FURTHER TO THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. LUCAS: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND AM I CORRECT THAT INCLUDED

WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE WOULD BE THE

PARENTS OR A MARRIED COUPLE WHOSE CHILDREN WERE THE VICTIM OF A

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENT; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. LUCAS: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND IN DEFINING WHAT IS A DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE INCIDENT, IT INCLUDES THINGS LIKE DISORDERLY CONDUCT, STALKING,

MENACING AND IDENTITY THEFT, AMONGST OTHERS, RIGHT?

MS. LUCAS: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: SO AM I CORRECT, THEN, THAT IF YOU'RE

A PARENT AND YOU HAVE A CHILD UNDER THE AGE OF 16 WHOSE IDENTITY WAS

STOLEN, THE PARENT WOULD BE A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE UNDER THAT

DEFINITION, CORRECT?

MS. LUCAS: IT WOULD BE SUCH ACT OR ACTS HAVE

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

RESULTED IN ACTUAL PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL INJURY OR HAVE CREATED A

SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL HARM TO SUCH PERSON OR SUCH

PERSON'S CHILD.

MR. GOODELL: SO, YOU'RE A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE EVEN THOUGH THE HARM DIDN'T OCCUR TO YOU, IT OCCURRED --

OCCURRED TO YOUR CHILD, RIGHT?

MS. LUCAS: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HARM IT

INCLUDES THINGS LIKES IDENTITY THEFT, RIGHT?

MS. LUCAS: AS I ANSWERED PREVIOUSLY, YES.

MR. GOODELL: AND MENACING, STALKING.

MS. LUCAS: AS I ANSWERED PREVIOUSLY, YES.

MR. GOODELL: YEAH. OKAY. SO IF A VICTIM OF

DOMESTIC ABUSE UNDER THESE DEFINITIONS INCLUDES AN ADULT WHOSE CHILD

HAD THEIR IDENTITY STOLEN, HOW WOULD AN EMPLOYER OR LANDLORD OR SCHOOL

OR JOB TRAINING ORGANIZATION, HOW WOULD THEY KNOW THAT THE PARENT WAS

A VICTIM IF THE PARENT THEMSELVES NEVER SUFFERED ANY OF THOSE PROBLEMS

AND IT WAS JUST THEIR CHILD? ARE WE EXPECTING THE PARENT TO SELF-

IDENTIFY?

MS. LUCAS: SO, IT WOULD MIMIC THE SAME WAY THAT

THE EMPLOYER WOULD IN THE EXISTING BILL AND IT'S ON A CASE-BY-CASE

BASIS. SO THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW PROHIBITS DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AN

INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE OF THAT INDIVIDUAL'S KNOWN RELATIONSHIP OR

ASSOCIATION WITH A MEMBER OR MEMBERS OF A PROTECTED CATEGORY

COVERED UNDER THE RELATIVE PROVISIONS OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW. TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

PROVE A CLAIM OF DISCRIMINATION, A COMPLAINANT MUST ESTABLISH THEY ARE

AGGRIEVED BY AN UNLAWFUL DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICE BY SHOWING THEY

HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO AN ADVERSE ACTION AS SPECIFIED TO RELEVANT

PROVISIONS OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW. BECAUSE OF THE UNKNOWN

RELATIONSHIP OR ASSOCIATION WITH A MEMBER OR MEMBERS OF A PROTECTED

CATEGORY COVERED UNDER THE RELEVANT PROVISIONS OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS

LAW, THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS EVALUATES COMPLAINTS ON A

CASE-BY-CASE BASIS. THE COMPLAINANT WOULD HAVE TO ESTABLISH THAT THEY

ARE -- WERE AGGRIEVED BY AN UNLAWFUL DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICE BASED ON

THEIR STATUS AS A MEMBER OF A PROTECTED CLASS. SO THE ONUS IS ON THE

VICTIM TO PROVE.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. AND I -- AND I THINK YOUR --

YOUR DESCRIPTION WAS EXTRAORDINARILY HELPFUL, CERTAINLY FOR ME. WHAT

YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING IS WE DON'T START OUT WITH A PRESUMPTION THAT

THERE'S DISCRIMINATION, WE START OUT AND SAY IF YOU WANT TO CLAIM

DISCRIMINATION THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE CLAIMANT.

MS. LUCAS: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND -- AND -- AND SO A LANDLORD, FOR

EXAMPLE, DOESN'T HAVE TO QUESTION EVERY TENANT SAYING, HEY, ANY OF

YOUR KIDS BEEN BULLIED IN SCHOOL, RIGHT? SO WE START FROM UNLESS THE

LANDLORD KNOWS THAT YOUR CHILD MIGHT HAVE HAD THEIR IDENTITIES STOLEN

OR MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE VICTIM OF STALKING, UNLESS THE LANDLORD KNOWS

THE CLAIMANT WOULD HAVE TO -- THE CLAIMANT PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE ABLE

TO ESTABLISH A CASE BECAUSE THE CLAIMANT HAS TO SHOW THAT THE LANDLORD

OR THE EMPLOYMENT AGENCY OR THE BANK OR THE SCHOOL AT SOME LEVEL HAD

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

TO BE AT LEAST AWARE THAT YOU'RE A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, RIGHT?

MS. LUCAS: WELL, I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DETERMINE

WHAT THEIR ABLE TO DETERMINE OR PROVE. HOWEVER, THE ONUS IS ON THE

VICTIM.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE

SPONSOR'S EXPLANATION, BECAUSE WHEN I FIRST READ THIS BILL I THOUGHT HOW

WOULD ANYONE KNOW THAT THE ADULT YOU'RE DEALING WITH HAS A MINOR

CHILD UNDER THE AGE OF 16 THAT MIGHT HAVE HAD THEIR IDENTITY STOLEN OR

MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE VICTIM OF STALKING OR MENACING OR BULLYING IN

SCHOOL. I MEAN, YOU JUST WOULDN'T KNOW. THERE'S NO DATABASE. IT'S NOT

LIKE YOU TYPE IN THE NAME OF THE ADULT IN FRONT OF YOU AND FIND OUT WHO

THEY'RE MARRIED TO AND WHO THEIR KIDS ARE AND WHAT THEIR SCHOOL RECORDS

ARE. WE -- NO ONE KNOWS THAT. AND SO AS I THINK THE SPONSOR WAS SO

HELPFUL IN EXPLAINING THIS, THAT IF YOU'RE CLAIMING THAT YOU'VE BEEN

DISCRIMINATED AGAINST AS A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, IT'S ON THE -- IT'S

THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CLAIMANT TO ESTABLISH THAT, A, THEY WERE A

VICTIM OF DISCRIMINATION AND, B, THAT THAT DISCRIMINATION WAS BECAUSE

THE LANDLORD OR SCHOOL OR JOB TRAINING PROGRAM WAS AWARE THEY WERE A

VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND THAT WAS THE REASON FOR THE

DISCRIMINATION.

SO WITH THAT THOUGHTFUL EXPLANATION LAYING OUT THE

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY, I SUPPORT THE BILL AND I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

COMMENTS BECAUSE REALLY, THERE'S NO ROOM IN NEW YORK STATE FOR

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. AND WE NEED TO BE CLEAR THAT WE'RE ON THE SIDE OF

THE VICTIMS AND WE WANT TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO HELP THEM AND

ELIMINATE THIS SCOURGE FROM NEW YORK STATE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO

THE SPONSOR. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AND THANK GOD I'M STILL WITHIN

MY TIME LIMITS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8417-B. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I ACTUALLY WOULD

WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION. VIOLENCE IN ANY

WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH. AND BY THE

WAY, ALL TOO MUCH OF IT HAPPENS IN OUR SOCIETY ON A REGULAR BASIS. BUT

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS DIFFERENT. BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE ARE

HURTING YOU WHO YOU THOUGHT LOVED YOU, WHO YOU THOUGHT CARED ABOUT

YOU AND THEY'RE HURTING AND ABUSING YOU. ANYTHING WE CAN DO AS

LAWMAKERS TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING, WE SHOULD DO.

AND SO I COMMEND THE SPONSOR AND REMOVE MY -- AND

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

AND MS. LUCAS, YOUR FIRST BILL, A HOME RUN.

(APPLAUSE)

AND YOU'RE HEADS DOWN TO THE SECOND FLOOR. EVEN

BETTER, MS. LUCAS. CONGRATULATIONS.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES,

WE CAN CONTINUE OUR FLOOR WORK BY GOING TO OUR -- STAYING ON OUR

DEBATE LIST AND WE'RE GOING TO GO TO CALENDAR NO. 145 BY MS. WALKER

AND CALENDAR NO. 148 BY MS. WALKER. IN THAT ORDER, MR. SPEAKER.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

CALENDAR NO. 145, PAGE 17, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04277-A, CALENDAR

NO. 145, WALKER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO

THE REQUIREMENTS FOR NOTARIES PUBLIC AND COMMISSIONERS OF DEEDS

RELATING TO CERTAIN INSTRUMENTS AFFECTING REAL PROPERTY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MS. WALKER.

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU,

MR. SPEAKER. THERE HAVE BEEN HUGE SPIKES IN REAL ESTATE VALUES AND

LAX STANDARDS FOR PROPERTY TRANSFERS. AND THESE THINGS HAVE LEFT MANY

HOMEOWNERS VULNERABLE TO DECEPTIVE PRACTICES BY INDIVIDUALS AND

ENTITIES SEEKING TO DEFRAUD HOMEOWNERS OUT OF THE TITLE TO THEIR HOME

IN ORDER FOR THEM TO MAKE A PROFIT. THE TWO MOST COMMON

MECHANISMS OF DEED THEFT ARE THROUGH FORGED DEEDS AND FRAUDULENTLY

TRANSFERRED DEEDS. IN THE INSTANCES OF A FORGED DEED, THE FORGER SIGNS

THE DOCUMENT CONVEYING THE REAL PROPERTY AS BOTH THE SELLER AND THE

BUYER WITHOUT ANY RIGHT TO IT. THIS TYPE OF THEFT TYPICALLY AFFECTS

PROPERTIES IN WHICH OWNERSHIP HAS RECENTLY PASSED THROUGH INHERITANCE

AND THESE DEED SCAMMERS QUICKLY FILE THE FORGED DEED. THIS

LEGITIMIZES THEIR TITLE AND ENABLES THEM TO TAKE POSSESSION OF THE

PREMISES. IN A CASE OF FRAUDULENTLY TRANSFERRED DEEDS, HOMEOWNERS

SIGN OVER THEIR DEEDS, EVEN KNOWINGLY OR UNKNOWINGLY, UNDER FALSE

PRETENSES. THESE INDIVIDUALS TARGET HOMES IN OR NEARING FORECLOSURE BY

APPROACHING THE VULNERABLE HOMEOWNERS WITH PROMISES OF REFINANCING

IN ORDER TO PREVENT FORECLOSURE OR SOME OTHER FRAUDULENT FINANCIAL

RELIEF. AND SOME EVEN MANIPULATE THE HOMEOWNERS TO DO A SHORT SALE

BY WHICH THEY PROMISE TO PAY HOMEOWNERS A SUM OF MONEY TO SATISFY

THE OUTSTANDING MORTGAGE IN EXCHANGE FOR SOME SHORT-TERM TITLE TO THE

PROPERTY WHICH THEY IN TURN PROMISE TO GIVE BACK AFTER THE LOAN IS

REPAID KNOWING THAT THEY WON'T. UNWITTING HOMEOWNERS ARE OFTEN LEFT

WITHOUT A HOME AND STILL OWING THEIR MORTGAGE. THIS BILL AMENDS THE

EXECUTIVE LAW TO REQUIRE NOTARY PUBLICS AND COMMISSIONERS OF DEEDS

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

TO COMPLETE AND RETAIN CERTAIN DOCUMENTS RELATING TO THE TRANSFER OF A

RESIDENTIAL REAL PROPERTY AND ADDS OTHER REQUIREMENTS TO SUCH

RECORDING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MONTESANO.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU. MS. WALKER, I JUST

WANTED TO GO OVER ONE OR TWO THINGS WITH YOU. I'M -- I'M FAMILIAR WITH

THE ISSUE, HAVING DEALT WITH IT MANY TIMES IN MY LAW PRACTICE SO I'M

PLEASED TO SEE A BILL OF THIS NATURE. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT

CONCERNS ME, THOUGH, IS THAT THERE'S SOME EXCEPTIONS IN THIS BILL OF

NOTARIES THAT DON'T HAVE TO FILE THIS DOCUMENT, SUCH AS THOSE WHO WORK

IN A LAW OFFICE, WORKING AS ATTORNEYS, WORKING AS A TITLE CLOSER. SO

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE EXCEPTIONS. WHAT MY CONCERN IS, IS HOW DOES

THE RECORDING OFFICER SUCH AS A COUNTY CLERK, OR IN THE CITY OF NEW

YORK THE REGISTRAR, KNOW THAT THE NOTARY PUBLIC FALLS INTO ONE OF THOSE

CATEGORIES AND IS EXEMPT FROM FILING THE FORM?

MS. WALKER: WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I DON'T

-- I GUESS MY QUESTION BACK TO YOU TO IS WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE

WHETHER OR NOT THE CLERK'S OFFICE KNOWS WHAT PARTICULAR PROFESSION THE

RECORDER OR THE INDIVIDUAL IS -- IS IN OR OPERATES WITHIN? BUT WHAT IS

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS THAT THOSE PARTICULAR PROFESSIONS HAVE RULES,

REGULATIONS, ET CETERA WITH RESPECT TO THEIR OWN BUSINESS PRACTICES.

AND SO THESE ENTITIES, INCLUDING INSURANCE AGENCIES, LAW FIRMS,

FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, AND THOSE WHO ARE WORKING AS ATTORNEYS AT LAW

ARE REQUIRED TO RETAIN THESE DOCUMENTS AS BUSINESS RECORDS, WHICH OF

COURSE ARE STILL LEGAL DOCUMENTS.

MR. MONTESANO: BECAUSE I DO REALIZE IN THE BILL

EVERYONE IS REQUIRED TO PREPARE THE FORM, BUT THE ONES THAT WE JUST

DISCUSSED, THE EXEMPTIONS WE JUST DISCUSSED DON'T HAVE TO FILE WITH IT

WITH THE RECORDING OFFICER. ONLY NOTARIES PUBLIC THAT ARE OPERATING

INDEPENDENTLY HAVE TO FILE THAT FORM WITH THE RECORDING OFFICER. SO

WHAT I WAS CURIOUS IS HOW DOES THE RECORDING OFFICER KNOW WHERE THIS

NOTARY FALLS INTO, WHAT CATEGORY THEY FALL INTO? AND -- AND SO THAT'S A

CONCERN, BECAUSE NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT SOME NOTARY PUBLICS WORK

FOR DIFFERENT PLACES, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN'T GET INVOLVED IN AN ACT OF

DECEPTION OR CORRUPTION EITHER. SO, IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE EVERYBODY

PREPARE THE FORM, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE FEASIBLE TO HAVE EVERYBODY

JUST FILE THE FORM WITH THE DEED OR TRANSFER DOCUMENT WHEN IT GOES INTO

THE CLERK FOR RECORDING. AND I THINK THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, FURTHER

BOLSTER, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE.

MS. WALKER: WELL, I DO BELIEVE ALSO THAT NOTARY

PUBLICS AS WELL AS MANY COMMISSIONERS OF DEEDS MAY NOT HAVE TO DEAL

WITH THE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS, STANDARDS, PROVISIONS WITH RESPECT TO

ETHICS AS MANY OF THESE OTHER PROFESSIONALS HAVE TO UNDERGO. AND SO

THERE IS A CERTAIN LEVEL OF AN EXPECTATION THAT THESE ADDITIONAL

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

REQUIREMENTS ON THESE PROFESSIONAL OPPORTUNITIES AND PROFESSIONS AND

JOBS WILL SUFFICE WITH RESPECT TO HOLDING THESE DOCUMENTS AS BUSINESS

RECORDS AS OPPOSED TO HAVING TO -- TO RECORD THEM. AND THE RECORDING

IN THIS PARTICULAR BILL ADDRESSES THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY NOT

NECESSARILY HAVE TO FILE, REGISTER AND/OR SUBMIT TO ADDITIONAL

PROFESSIONAL REQUIREMENT.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU. NOW, I KNOW YOUR

BILL CONTAINS IN IT A TEXT OR A PROPOSED FORMAT FOR REFORM, YOU KNOW,

WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO CONTAIN AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT HAS TO BE

PREPARED. IS ANY GOVERNMENT AGENCY GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR

PUBLISHING THIS FORM TO ALL THE NOTARIES SO THEY'RE ALL CONSISTENT WITH

EACH OTHER? SO IF WE LEAVE IT TO THEM UP TO MAKE IT UP THEMSELVES,

THEY MAY NOT BE CONSISTENT FOR WHEN THE RECORDING OFFICERS HAVE TO

REVIEW THEM OR SOMEONE ELSE HAS TO REVIEW THEM. HOW WOULD THAT BE

HANDLED?

MS. WALKER: NOT IN THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF -- OF FORMS THAT ARE MADE

AVAILABLE WHICH ARE -- WHICH BECOME SORT OF STANDARD OPERATING

PRACTICES WITH RESPECT TO HOW A RECORDING OF A NOTARY PUBLIC SHOULD BE

EXHIBITED IN THE FORM DOCUMENT. SO I'M SURE THAT THE INDUSTRY WILL

TAKE CARE OF THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.

WALKER.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: ON THE BILL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, I -- I

APPLAUD THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL. IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S LONG IN THE

MAKING. HAVING HANDLED A LOT OF REAL ESTATE MATTERS IN MY TIME AS AN

ATTORNEY I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN CASES WHERE PEOPLE WERE DEFRAUDED OF

THEIR PROPERTY AND FRAUDULENT DEEDS WERE PREPARED, THEY WERE FORGED.

A NOTARY PUBLIC NOT BEING AWARE MAYBE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON OR

MAYBE BEING AWARE AND BEING A PARTICIPANT IN THE MATTER, YOU KNOW,

EXECUTED THE DOCUMENTS AS THE NOTARY AND ENABLED IT TO BE RECORDED.

AND IT'S AN ONGOING PROBLEM, ESPECIALLY IN THE CITY. THERE'S BEEN

TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF LAWSUITS WITH PEOPLE TRYING TO RECLAIM THEIR

PROPERTY. SOME OF THEM WERE SUCCESSFUL AND SOME, UNFORTUNATELY,

WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL. IT'S JUST MY HOPE THAT -- MY VIEW ON THIS BILL,

WHICH I'M GOING TO SUPPORT IT, SHOULD BE THAT ANYBODY WHO NOTARIZES A

DEED OR A TRANSFER DOCUMENT, IRREGARDLESS WHO THEY WORK FOR, WHAT

POSITION THEY HOLD, WHEN THEY FILL OUT THIS FORM WHICH THIS BILL

REQUIRES, THEY SHOULD HAVE TO FILE IT WITH THE RECORDING OFFICER WITH THE

DEED ITSELF SO IT'S -- IT'S A MATTER OF RECORD IF THERE'S ANY EXAMINATION

THAT HAS TO BE DONE.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES, MR. SPEAKER.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. WALKER. A COUPLE

OF YEARS AGO WE PASSED LEGISLATION DEALING SPECIFICALLY WITH FRAUDULENT

TRANSFERS. ISN'T IT TRUE THAT WE NOW REQUIRE THE COUNTY CLERK TO SEND A

NOTICE TO THE GRANTOR, THE SELLER, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SALE WAS

AUTHORIZED?

MS. WALKER: I BELIEVE YOU ARE CORRECT. HOWEVER,

I WOULD NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE SPECIFIC LAW THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING

TO STATE MORE AFFIRMATIVELY, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, I PRACTICE REAL ESTATE. THAT'S

ALL I DO -- ALMOST ALL I DO FOR 40 YEARS, AND THERE'S A FEE ASSOCIATED WITH

THAT. WE HAVE TO FILE IT AND THEY SEND IT OUT. THERE'S ALSO A FEE

ASSOCIATED WITH FILING THIS NOTARY FORM AS WELL, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT FEE

WOULD BE?

MS. WALKER: UP TO $25.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, THAT'S THE FEE THAT THE NOTARY

CHARGES. BUT THE NOTARY IS SUPPOSED TO FILE THE FORM WITH THE COUNTY

CLERK WITHIN 14 DAYS, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: YES, THEY DO.

MR. GOODELL: AND WHAT'S THE FEE FROM THE COUNTY

CLERK?

MS. WALKER: THE BILL DOES NOT REFLECT THE FEE THAT

THE COUNTY CLERK WILL BE REQUIRED TO CHARGE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. GOODELL: AND WHO HAS TO PAY THAT FEE, THE

NOTARY?

MS. WALKER: SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE THE MAKINGS

OF ANOTHER BILL, SIR. HOWEVER, THIS BILL --

MR. GOODELL: NO, I'M -- I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE

OUT WHO HAS TO PAY THE FILING FEE.

MS. WALKER: WELL, I BELIEVE IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US

TO BE ABLE TO RESTRICT OUR QUESTIONS TO THE CONTENTS CONTAINED WITHIN THIS

BILL. AND THE COSTS WITH RESPECT TO THE FILING FEE AND/OR WHO HAS TO PAY

THE FILING FEE IS NOT WITHIN THE FOUR CORNERS OF THIS DOCUMENT, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, LOOKING ON PAGE 4 OF THE

DOCUMENT, IF I MAY, AM I CORRECT THAT THAT IS AN ISSUE THAT'S SPECIFICALLY

ADDRESSED BY THIS BILL?

MS. WALKER: WHAT ARE YOU SPECIFICALLY

REFERENCING? WHICH LINE?

MR. GOODELL: PAGE 4, LINE 30.

MS. WALKER: YES. BUT AS YOU CORRECTLY INDICATED

THAT THIS IS THE FEE THAT THE -- THAT HAS -- THAT THE NOTARY CAN CHARGE FOR

THE NOTORIAL ACT AS OPPOSED TO THE FILING FEE.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT -- A LOT

OF PROBLEMS WITH FRAUDULENT TRANSFERS, AND AS WE DISCUSSED WE'VE TRIED

TO ADDRESS THAT WITH ADDITIONAL NOTICES. A NOTARY, OF COURSE, ONLY

VERIFIES ON THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THE PERSON IN FRONT OF THEM IS THE

CORRECT PERSON, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: CORRECT.

103

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. GOODELL: AND SO IF A NOTARY INCORRECTLY

IDENTIFIES IT OR THE PERSON WHO SIGNED THE DEED DOESN'T ACTUALLY OWN

THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS THE BASIS OF THAT TYPE OF FRAUD, ISN'T -- AREN'T THE

-- ISN'T THE LAW CLEAR AND AREN'T THE COURT CASES ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT A

DEED THAT IS NOT ACTUALLY SIGNED BY THE SELLER, THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY

DOES NOT TRANSFER THE PROPERTY. RIGHT?

MS. WALKER: WELL, THAT MAY BE THE CASE, BUT THIS

PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION PERTAINS TO THE NOTARY, AND THE

REQUIREMENT THAT THE NOTARY HAS TO HAVE SOME PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF

OWNERSHIP OF THE PROPERTY IS NOT INDICATED HERE. BUT WHAT IS INDICATED

HERE ARE THE DOCUMENTS THAT MAY BE REQUIRED TO SHOW THAT THE PERSON

WHO IS ACTUALLY SIGNING IS THE PERSON WHO THEY PURPORT TO BE. SO IF I

SIGN A DOCUMENT SAYING THAT I AM LATRICE WALKER, I HAVE TO SHOW

ADEQUATE PROOF AND IDENTIFICATION TO PROVE THAT I AM LATRICE WALKER, I

SIGN THAT DOCUMENT AND THE NOTARY HAS FULFILLED THEIR REQUIREMENTS.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE THAT THE NOTARY HAS TO FILL OUT

THIS FORM, IT'S A STATUTORY FORM. INCLUDED AMONGST THAT FORM IS THE PIN

NUMBER OF THE PROPERTY. ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE SDL NUMBER OR WHAT

-- ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE TAX IDENTIFICATION NUMBER OR THE LIBER AND

PAGE? WHAT'S MEANT BY PIN?

(PAUSE)

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU. THE -- THAT REFERS TO THE

SECTION, BLOCK AND LOT NUMBERS.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. AND I SEE THAT THE STATUTORY

FORM REQUIRES A NOTARY TO LIST THEIR PHONE NUMBER. IF A NOTARY ONLY HAS

104

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

A CELL PHONE, AND MORE AND MORE PEOPLE, AS YOU KNOW, ELIMINATED

HARD LINES AND HAVE GONE WITH JUST CELL PHONES. SO DOES THIS MEAN,

THEN, THAT THE NOTARY HAS TO LIST THEIR PERSONAL CELL PHONE NUMBER ON A

DOCUMENT THAT'S FILED WITH THE COUNTY CLERK?

MS. WALKER: WELL, IF THAT NOTARY IS USING THAT

TELEPHONE NUMBER AS THEIR BUSINESS TELEPHONE NUMBER, THEN SURE.

MR. GOODELL: IS THERE ANY EXCEPTION FOR A NOTARY

THAT MAY BE THE VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OR OTHERWISE HAVE A

LEGITIMATE REASON TO KEEP THEIR CELL PHONE CONFIDENTIAL?

MS. WALKER: AGAIN, SOUNDS LIKE THE MAKING OF

ANOTHER PIECE OF LEGISLATION, SIR. HOWEVER, THIS BILL DOES NOT TAKE THAT

INTO ACCOUNT.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, IF THE NOTARY FOR SOME REASON

EITHER DOESN'T FILE THE FORM OR FILL OUT THE FORM OR PERHAPS AS OFTEN IS

THE CASE THE NOTARY WOULD GIVE THE DOCUMENT BACK TO THE CUSTOMER OR

BACK TO THE ATTORNEY TO FILE THEN THE NOTARY IS SUBJECT TO A $250 FINE; IS

THAT CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND CAN THE NOTARY THEN SUE THE

LAWYER IF THE LAWYER FORGETS TO FILE IT?

MS. WALKER: THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT

OPPORTUNITIES THAT THE NOTARY MAY BE ABLE TO AVAIL THEMSELVES OF UNDER

THE LAW. HOWEVER, THAT IS NOT THE SPIRIT OR THE PREMISES WITHIN THIS

PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, THIS BILL SPECIFIES ALL THE

105

NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THINGS THAT A NOTARY IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT IN ORDER TO VERIFY THE

IDENTITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL. IF SOMEONE IS HERE AND THEY'RE AN ILLEGAL

IMMIGRANT OR A PERSON WITHOUT DOCUMENTATION OR A PERSON THAT DOESN'T

HAVE A VALID VISA OR HOWEVER YOU MIGHT WANT TO DESCRIBE IT, HOW IS THE

NOTARY TO COMPLY WITH THIS?

MS. WALKER: WELL, I WILL ALSO SUBMIT TO YOU, SIR,

THAT LANGUAGE IS IMPORTANT, AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A CERTAIN

DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHAT'S ILLEGAL AND WHAT'S LAWFUL. AND SO I AM NOT

SURE WHEN YOU'RE REFERENCING ILLEGAL EXACTLY WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE

TALKING TO -- ABOUT A PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL. IF, HOWEVER, YOU ARE

MAKING REFERENCE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL UNDERGOING THE VALIDATION OF

THEIR STATUS HERE AS AMERICANS IN THIS COUNTRY, THERE IS A PARTICULAR

IDENTIFICATION, PARTICULARLY WITHIN NEW YORK CITY, THAT MANY OTHER

MUNICIPALITIES PERHAPS CAN FOLLOW WHICH WILL -- WHICH ARE THE VALID

MUNICIPAL IDENTIFICATION CARDS, AND THOSE CARDS ARE ISSUED PURSUANT TO

SECTION 3-115 OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK,

AND THEY CAN BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT DOCUMENTATION. IN ADDITION TO

THAT, SIR, WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE A NEW YORK STATE IDENTIFICATION CARD

WHICH IS FREE OF DISCRIMINATION BASED ON THE PERSON'S STATUS HERE IN THE

COUNTRY AND THEY MAY BE ABLE TO PROVIDE ANY SUCH FORMS OF

DOCUMENTATION.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND IF THEY DON'T HAVE THAT

DOCUMENTATION THEN THE NOTARY SIMPLY SAYS, SORRY, I CAN'T NOTARIZE THIS

UNTIL AND UNLESS YOU GET THAT DOCUMENTATION, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: WELL, THEY ARE ALSO ABLE TO PROVIDE,

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

SIR, A VALID PASSPORT WHICH IS ISSUED BY A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT IF THEY

HAVE THAT IN THEIR POSSESSION AS WELL.

MR. GOODELL: CERTAINLY. SO IF THEY HAVE A VALID

PASSPORT ISSUED BY A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT OR THEY HAD A MUNICIPAL ID

CARD WHICH IS -- IS ISSUED REGARDLESS OF IMMIGRATION STATUS, RIGHT, OR

THEY HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE WHICH -- BECAUSE NEW YORK NOW ISSUES

DRIVERS' LICENSES TO PEOPLE WHO AREN'T HERE LEGALLY, BUT IF THEY DON'T

HAVE THOSE DOCUMENTATION THEN THE NOTARY CAN'T -- CAN'T NOTARIZE,

CORRECT? I MEAN, THERE'S -- THEY HAVE TO HAVE ONE OF THOSE ITEMS THAT

ARE LISTED HERE, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: WELL, I WOULD SAY, MR. GOODELL, THAT

NO BILL WILL BE ABLE TO FORESEE THE ENTIRE GAMBIT OF THE UNIVERSE DURING

ITS INITIAL DRAFTING STAGES, AND IT MAY BE ABLE TO BE AMENDED TO REFLECT

ADDITIONAL FORMS OF IDENTIFICATION AS OUR COLLEAGUES OR ADVOCATES OR

OTHER INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE CITIZENS OR THE STATE OF NEW YORK OR

OTHERWISE MAY BE ABLE TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS FOR AMENDMENTS ABOUT.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.

WALKER, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: ON THE BILL.

MR. GOODELL: APPARENTLY IN SOME PARTS OF THE

STATE FRAUDULENT REAL ESTATE TRANSFERS WERE AN ISSUE. I AM VERY THANKFUL

THAT IT'S NOT AN ISSUE THAT AFFECTS MY DISTRICT, BUT APPARENTLY IT HAS

AFFECTED OTHER DISTRICTS. IN RESPONSE TO THAT WE ADDED MORE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ADMINISTRATIVE REQUIREMENTS ON ANY REAL ESTATE TRANSFER. NOW THE

COUNTY CLERK IN EVERY SINGLE COUNTY FOR EVERY SINGLE REAL ESTATE TRANSFER

HAS TO SEND OUT A SEPARATE INDEPENDENT NOTICE TO THE SELLERS, CONFIRMING

THAT THEY'VE SOLD THEIR PROPERTY. NOW, ALL OF US WHO PRACTICE REAL ESTATE

LAW WILL TELL YOU IT'S ELEMENTARY AND UNSALABLE AND WITHOUT DISPUTE THAT

IF THE DEED IS PRESENTED TO THE COUNTY CLERK AND IT'S NOT ACTUALLY SIGNED

BY THE OWNER, NO MATTER HOW NICELY DONE THE FORGERY, IT'S STILL A FORGERY

AND IS INVALID TO TRANSFER THE TITLE. THAT'S A LAW THAT GOES BACK TO THE

BEGINNING OF THE COMMON LAW 400 YEARS AGO IN ENGLAND. ONLY THE

PERSON WHO ACTUALLY OWNS THE PROPERTY CAN SIGN THE DEED. AND IF IT'S

FRAUDULENT OR IT'S FORGED OR IT'S SIGNED BY SOMEBODY ELSE IT SIMPLY

DOESN'T TRANSFER. IT SIMPLY DOESN'T HAPPEN. SO NOW WE TRIED LAST YEAR

OR THE YEAR BEFORE TO TRY TO NIP THIS TYPE OF FRAUD SOONER BY REQUIRING

THE NOTICE. SO THIS IS A BILL THAT'S A SOLUTION THAT'S LOOKING FOR A

PROBLEM. BECAUSE THE PROBLEM DOESN'T HAVE TO DO WITH THE

NOTARIZATION. IF YOU HAVE A FRAUDULENT SIGNATURE AND IT'S NOTARIZED SIX

WAYS TO SUNDAY, IT'S STILL FRAUDULENT, IT STILL DOESN'T TRANSFER THE TITLE. IT

DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU NOTARIZE IT. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW

MANY FRAUDULENT DOCUMENTS YOU PRESENT TO THE NOTARY. UNLESS IT'S

SIGNED BY THE OWNER, ACTUALLY SIGNED BY THE OWNER, IT DOESN'T TRANSFER.

SO THIS DOESN'T SOLVE THAT ISSUE, IT JUST CREATES A WHOLE BUNCH OF NEW

ISSUES. AND AS MY COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT, THIS BILL IS BOTH TOO NARROW

AND TOO BROAD. IT'S TOO NARROW BECAUSE IT LEAVES THE VAST MAJORITY OF

NOTARIES UNAFFECTED AT ALL, AND IT'S TOO BROAD BECAUSE IT REQUIRES A GREAT

DEAL OF INFORMATION AND INCREASES THE COST AND REQUIRES NOTARIES TO

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DISCLOSE THEIR PHONE NUMBER. IT REQUIRES NOTARIES TO FIGURE OUT WHAT

THE SECTION BLOCK AND LOT IS, THE SBL OR THE PIN NUMBER IS, AND RATHER

THAN JUST SAY, HEY, SHOW ME YOUR IDENTIFICATION. I'LL DO MY BEST TO

MAKE SURE YOU'RE RIGHT. THAT'S THE CURRENT STANDARD. THAT'S THE WAY IT

SHOULD RUN. THIS IMPOSES MORE COSTS, ONLY COVERS PART OF THE NOTARIES.

IT REQUIRES OBTRUSIVE INFORMATION TO BE REQUIRE -- TO BE FILED, PUTS

ANOTHER FINE ON TOP OF NOTARIES, $250 IF THEY DON'T FILL OUT THE FORM

PROPERLY OR SOMEBODY DOESN'T FILE IT PROPERLY, ADDS MORE COST TO REAL

ESTATE TRANSFERS BECAUSE THE COUNTY CLERK'S GOING TO IMPOSE A FEE ON TOP

OF THE NOTARY FEE. IT REQUIRES OWNERS' RECORDKEEPING THAT GOES BACK

SEVEN YEARS, AND SO CAN YOU TRACK DOWN ANYONE SEVEN YEARS LATER ON A

FRAUDULENT TRANSFER ANYWAY. IT'S BOTH TOO NARROW AND TOO BROAD. AS

MY COLLEAGUE, THE SPONSOR, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, SAID,

YEAH, THESE THINGS CAN BE AMENDED. I JUST THINK IT'S A BETTER POLICY IF

WE AMEND IT BEFORE WE ADOPT A LAW THAN TRY TO AMEND IT AFTER.

FOR THAT REASON I'LL RECOMMEND AGAINST IT. THANK YOU

VERY MUCH AGAIN TO MY COLLEAGUE FOR HER COMMENTS. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MS. ZINERMAN.

MS. ZINERMAN: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: ON THE BILL.

MS. ZINERMAN: I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE SPONSOR

FOR THIS IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION. AS OUR DISTRICTS BORDER EACH

OTHER, SHE KNOWS ALL TOO WELL WHAT WE HAVE SUFFERED OVER THE LAST

DECADE-PLUS WITH REGARD TO DEED THEFT. IN THE FIVE YEARS THAT I WAS IN

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL, THE TWO YEARS IN THE SENATE AND FOR THE

YEAR-AND-A-HALF THAT I'VE BEEN HERE, THE NUMBERS HAVE NOT GONE DOWN

IN TERMS OF THE OLDER ADULTS WHO OWN HOMES AND FAMILIES WHO OWN

HOME IN OUR -- IN OUR DISTRICT AND THEIR DEEDS ARE STILL BEING STOLEN.

AND SO I BELIEVE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH LEGISLATION THAT COULD -- THAT COULD

--- THAT WE HAVE NOT PASSED ENOUGH LEGISLATION TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE

OF -- EFFECTIVELY, BUT THIS LEGISLATION IS MOVING US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION

TO ENSURE THE OVERSIGHT OVER THOSE WHO ARE ENTRUSTED WITH ENSURING THAT

DOCUMENTS ARE NOT FRAUDULENT. I AM HAPPY THAT OTHER DISTRICTS AREN'T

DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE, BUT THIS IS A CRITICAL ISSUE IN KINGS COUNTY. ON

ANY GIVEN DAY IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE THERE ARE

PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE WHO ARE SCROLLING THROUGH DOCUMENTS TRYING TO

LOOK AT DEEDS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE OVER 70 YEARS OLD. I KNOW THIS

BECAUSE THOSE PREDATORS CAME TO THE DOOR OF MY MOTHER'S HOUSE AT 80

YEARS OLD. MY AUNT WAS IN A HOUSE WHO'S 92 YEARS OLD AND I HAVE A

COUSIN WHO'S 73. THEY LOOK AT THOSE DATES -- THOSE DATES OF BIRTH AND

THEY COME AND THEY TARGET PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY. WE WON'T TALK

TODAY ABOUT WHY THEY'RE TARGETING CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, BUT THIS JUST

HAS TO STOP.

AND SO I THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION AND I ASK ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE TO

PLEASE SUPPORT IT.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MR. NORRIS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD THE

SPONSOR YIELD JUST FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

I WANT TO JUST GO BACK TO THE INITIAL QUESTION. WHAT IS THE POINT OF YOU

DOING THIS? IS IT BECAUSE YOU FEEL THAT THERE HAVE BEEN FRAUDULENT

TRANSFERS AND THAT THE OWNERS HAVE NOT BEEN PROPERLY NOTIFIED OF THOSE

TRANSFERS?

MS. WALKER: THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THERE

HAVE BEEN FRAUDULENT TRANSFERS, AND THE INSTRUMENTALITY OF THE FRAUD HAS

BEEN THE DEED. AND ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF, YOU KNOW,

TRANSFERRING PROPERTY OF COURSE IS A PERSON'S SIGNATURE. AND YOU HAVE

TO BE WHO YOU PURPORT TO BE. AND IF THE DOCUMENT INDICATES THAT FRANK

SMITH IS THE OWNER OF A PIECE OF PROPERTY, THEN FRANK SMITH HAS TO

PRESENT BEFORE A NOTARY OR COMMISSIONER OF DEEDS AND SAY, HI, I AM

FRANK SMITH. HERE IS MY ADEQUATE IDENTIFICATION PROVING THAT I AM

SAME, AND I AM SIGNING THIS DEED OVER TO SALLY ROGERS. AND SO THIS

PARTICULAR BILL PUTS THE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENT ON THE NOTARY AND/OR THE

COMMISSIONER OF DEEDS TO TAKE CAREFUL PREPARATIONS IN ORDER TO ENSURE

THAT THEY ARE RECEIVING THE IDENTIFICATION THAT THEY MUST RECEIVE, WHICH

IS DOCUMENTED BY EITHER THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR THE STATE

GOVERNMENT OR A MUNICIPALITY, AND THEN PUTTING AN ADDITIONAL

REQUIREMENT ON THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOT SUBJECTED TO OTHER MORE

STRICT PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS TO BE ABLE TO SAY, THIS IS A DOCUMENT THAT I

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NOTARIZED AND I AM RECORDING IT WITH THE COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE AND I AM

SAYING THAT THE PERSON WHO SIGNED IT IS THE PERSON WHO CAME BEFORE ME

AND SAT BEFORE ME, ETCETERA.

MR. NORRIS: AND THEY WILL FILE THAT WITH THE

COUNTY CLERK, THIS AFFIDAVIT, THAT THEY -- THEY (INAUDIBLE) THINGS, RIGHT?

MS. WALKER: CORRECT. YES.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. NOW, MY QUESTION IS IN THE

BILL THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. SO IN ATTORNEYS' OFFICES, TITLE

COMPANIES, THEY DON'T HAVE TO FILE -- IF THEY'RE A NOTARY AND THEY'RE

ACTING IN THOSE CAPACITIES, THEY DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO FILE THAT AFFIDAVIT

WITH THE COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE. WOULD THAT BE CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: THERE ARE -- THEY DO NOT, SIR.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY.

MS. WALKER: HOWEVER, THERE ARE ALSO CERTAIN

OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT ATTORNEYS AND/OR OTHERWISE ACTING IN THEIR

PROFESSIONAL CAPACITIES HAVE TO -- TO RECORD AS WELL AND AS KEEP AND

STORE THESE RECORDS AS BUSINESS RECORDS.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. I JUST WANT TO ASK, THERE HAS

BEEN SOME CONFUSION -- YOU KNOW, I PRACTICE REAL ESTATE LAW. MY

OFFICE WILL FILE THE DEED AND THEN THEY STILL HAVE TO GET THAT NOTICE THAT

THE PROPERTY WAS SOLD. SO MY CLIENT WILL CALL UP AND THEY SAY, WHAT IS

THIS NOTICE, MR. NORRIS? I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY I'M GETTING A NOTICE.

DIDN'T YOU TAKE CARE OF THE TRANSFER? AND I WOULD SAY, YES, WE DID.

IT'S JUST A STANDARD NOTICE THAT GOES ON. I SEE YOUR POINT, THOUGH,

BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT FRAUDULENT TRANSFERS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

WHAT I WOULD ASK, POTENTIALLY, OF THE SPONSOR - AND I KNOW WE WON'T

DO THIS NECESSARILY TODAY - BUT COULD THERE BE -- BECAUSE I SEE THE

EXCEPTIONS IN PLACE. COULD POTENTIALLY THE NOTICE THAT IS FILED BY THE

NOTARY UNDER YOUR BILL BE SENT TO THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ACTUALLY SOLD THE

PREMISES? THEREFORE, THE INDIVIDUALS WHO WENT THROUGH A TITLE

COMPANY OR WENT THROUGH AN ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THEY WOULD NOT

NECESSARILY RECEIVE THAT SECONDARY -- THAT NOTICE FROM THE COUNTY

CLERK'S OFFICE WHICH HAS CAUSED CONFUSION FOR CLIENTS BECAUSE WE'RE

DOING THE WORK ALREADY AND THEY'RE GETTING DUPLICATE THINGS. SO, I SEE

YOUR POINT, I UNDERSTAND IT. I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE DUPLICATIVELY

WITH THE -- THE DOUBLE FILINGS.

MS. WALKER: SO, I APPRECIATE -- I APPRECIATE YOUR

COMMENTARY. AND I APPRECIATE YOUR ACTS AS AN ATTORNEY AND THE FACT

THAT YOUR CLIENT CAN COME TO YOU AND SAY, HEY, I GOT THIS NOTICE. I

THOUGHT YOU WERE TAKING CARE OF IT. BUT MANY OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO

COME TO ME WHO RECEIVE THAT NOTICE SAY, I RECEIVED THIS NOTICE AND I

NEVER SOLD MY HOUSE. AND I DON'T KNOW WHO -- WHO SIGNED THIS

DOCUMENT BECAUSE THIS IS NOT MY SIGNATURE, ON THE ONE HAND. IN

ADDITION TO THAT, WE HAVE OTHER EXPERIENCES WHERE PEOPLE ARE

TRANSFERRING THEIR PROPERTY KNOWINGLY AND/OR UNKNOWINGLY WHERE

THEY'RE NOT UTILIZING A GREAT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, BUT INSTEAD, THE TRANSFER OF

THAT DEED TAKES PLACE EITHER STANDING IN A DOORWAY OR AT A KITCHEN

TABLE. AND SO, WHILE WE RESPECT THE GREAT PROFESSIONS WITHIN OUR REAL

ESTATE INDUSTRY, WE WANT TO ALSO PROVIDE THE SAME LEVEL OF REGULATION AS

WELL AS ACCOUNTABILITY TO ALL OTHER INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY BE A PART OF THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

REAL ESTATE BODY POLITIC.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. WELL, I -- I UNDERSTAND THAT

POINT. BUT AGAIN, I KNOW IT'S CAUSED CONFUSION, AND I WOULD JUST

SUBMIT TO YOU AS THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL THAT MAYBE THERE'S AN

ADDITIONAL PATH THAT WE CAN LOOK AT TO AVOID DUPLICATIVELY WHEN WE

KNOW THAT THAT ACTUALLY HAS BEEN FILED BY THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, IT'S ON

RECORD AND THERE'S CONFUSION THERE. BUT OTHERWISE --

MS. WALKER: DULY NOTED, SIR.

MR. NORRIS: -- MS. WALKER, I DO APPRECIATE YOU

ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. I UNDERSTAND THIS IS A SERIOUS CONCERN IN THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. IT HAPPENS THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF NEW YORK.

LIKE (INAUDIBLE) IN MY COUNTY AS WELL, AND I JUST WAS CONCERNED ABOUT

WHAT I'M HEARING FROM MY CLIENTS AND UN -- AND A -- AND A BURDENSOME

ISSUE ON THEM. BUT MAYBE THERE'S A PATH WE CAN DO TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MS. WALKER: WELL, SOMETIMES, SIR, WE HAVE TO DO

SOME -- WE HAVE TO STIR UP A LITTLE GOOD TROUBLE. AND I BELIEVE THAT THE

INCONVENIENCE THAT PEOPLE MAY FEEL BY THIS ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENT --

ADDITIONAL FILING REQUIREMENT WOULD -- COULD NOT SURMOUNT TO THE

TROUBLE THAT AN UNASSUMING HOMEOWNER FEELS WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN

NOTIFIED THAT THEIR HOMES WERE STOLEN FROM THEM. SO I APPRECIATE YOUR

COMMENTARY AND I LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING THE DIALOGUE.

MR. NORRIS: CAN I JUST ASK ONE MORE QUESTION?

MS. WALKER: SURE.

MR. NORRIS: I SEE YOUR -- I SEE THE POINT. ARE YOU

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

INFERRING POTENTIALLY THAT WHEN SOMEONE USES AN ATTORNEY OR USES THE

TITLE COMPANY THAT THERE -- THERE'S A -- A FRAUDULENT TRANSFER IN THAT

SITUATION? BECAUSE TYPICALLY, I MEAN, WE'RE LICENSED AND WE HAVE TO

PERFORM OUR DUTIES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CANONS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

THAT'S WHERE I'M A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED. I UNDERSTAND IF THEY'RE A NON-

ATTORNEY OR THEY'RE A NOT A TITLE COMPANY, THEY SHOULD FILE THIS

DOCUMENT. BUT MAYBE IN THE CASES WHERE AN ATTORNEY IS DOING IT, THEY

DON'T NEED TO GET THE DUPLICATE RECORD OR IT COULD BE NOTED ON IT. THAT

-- THAT'S MY ONLY SUGGESTION TO YOU, IS THAT THEY'RE GETTING THE NOTICE,

THEY'RE PAYING FOR THE NOTICE, THEN THEY'RE CALLING ME AS AN ATTORNEY AND

THEY'RE LIKE, WHY DID I GET THIS NOTICE FROM THE COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE? I

EXPLAIN TO THEM, BECAUSE WE HAVE A SITUATION IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK,

IT'S COMMON PRACTICE. WE DON'T WANT FRAUDULENT ISSUES OF TAKING PLACE

WITH YOUR DEED, AND THEY UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT BY HAVING THIS, YOU

KNOW, ADDITIONAL AFFIDAVIT FILED -- AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S AN

EXCEPTION FOR THE ATTORNEY AND THE TITLE'S OFFICE, MAYBE IT COULD BE

REMOVED ON ONE SIDE AND NOT THE OTHER SIDE. SO, I ONLY SUBMIT THAT TO

YOU AND I APPRECIATE YOU --

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU.

MR. NORRIS: -- ANSWERING MY CONCERNS. AND

AGAIN, I THINK THERE'S CERTAINLY -- I UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF THIS BILL AND

I UNDERSTAND IT'S A CONCERN TO THE STATE OF NEW YORK. THANK YOU, MS.

WALKER.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: MRS. PEOPLES-

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: YES, MAJORITY

LEADER, THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MS. WALKER.

I HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO THE DEBATE FROM THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE

RECEIVED AND I'M -- I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF

YOUR LEGISLATION. SO, THERE ARE LITERALLY PEOPLE IN YOUR DISTRICT

(INAUDIBLE) PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT WHO EXPERIENCED THIS -- I'M ASKING A

DUPLICATE QUESTION -- BUT WHO GETS SOMETHING IN THE MAIL FROM

SOMEONE THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR PROPERTY, BUT THEY DON'T REALLY

KNOW THE FULL DETAILS OF IT AND THE NEXT THING THEY KNOW THEIR PROPERTY

IS IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S HANDS. IS THAT -- IS THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION TO

LITERALLY DEAL WITH THAT AS AN ISSUE?

MS. WALKER: YES, MAJORITY LEADER.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU. BECAUSE --

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR RESPONSE BECAUSE WHAT'S REAL CLEAR IN

MOST URBAN AREAS ACROSS AMERICA, INCLUDING THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IS

THAT COMMUNITIES ARE BEING GENTRIFIED. THEY'RE BEING GENTRIFIED REALLY

QUICKLY. A LOT OF IT IS LEGAL BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE READY TO MOVE ON

AND THEY JUST WANT TO SELL THEIR APARTMENT. BUT A LOT OF IT IS PREDATORY

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

AND UNDERHANDED. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU ALL LIVE IN

COMMUNITIES WHERE YOU HAVE 28 SIGNS ON ONE TELEPHONE POLE SAYING, I

BUY PROPERTY. DO YOU HAVE THE PROPERTY TO SELL? I DON'T KNOW HOW

MANY OF YOU RECEIVE THESE NOTES IN THE MAIL ON A REGULAR BASIS: WHAT'S

YOUR ADDRESS? I BUY PROPERTY. WILL YOU SELL? THAT'S PREDATORY. NO

ONE ASKED -- NOW CLEARLY, YOU, BEING A HOMEOWNER, IS A MATTER OF

PUBLIC RECORD. SO IF PEOPLE CAN GO STUDY THE RECORDS, SEE HOW LONG

YOU'VE OWNED IT, SEE HOW OLD YOU ARE, THEY CAN ALMOST TELL WHAT YOUR

INCOME IS AT THIS POINT, THEY'RE PRESSING YOU TO BUY YOUR PROPERTY, AND

WHEN THEY CAN'T PRESSURE YOU TO SELL IT TO THEM THEN THEY FIND WAYS TO

MANIPULATE IT. CRIMINALS COME IN ALL CAREERS AND ALL BACKGROUNDS.

AND IF YOU THINK THAT THERE ARE NOT SOME LEGAL PEOPLE OUT THERE

FIGURING OUT WAYS TO STEAL PEOPLE'S PROPERTY, PARTICULARLY SOMEBODY'S

BEAUTIFUL BROWNSTONES IN BROOKLYN -- AND THIS IS NOT A NEW ISSUE. THIS

HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR A WHILE. AT SOME POINT IF WE HAVE TO PUT SOME

DIFFERENT THINGS IN PLACE TO TRY TO STOP THAT, BECAUSE EVEN IF A PERSON IS

86 THEY MIGHT STILL WANT TO STAY IN THEIR HOME THAT HAS STAIRS IN IT. NO

ONE SHOULD BE PRESSURING THEM AND FIGURING OUT LEGAL MANEUVERS TO

TAKE IT FROM THEM.

AND SO I WANT TO APPLAUD THE SPONSOR FOR FIGURING OUT

ANOTHER WAY TO STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING, BECAUSE IT DOES HAPPEN.

AND IT CAN'T JUST BE BRUSHED TO THE SIDE AND SAY IT DOESN'T EXIST. IT DOES.

AND WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT, MUCH LIKE THE SPONSOR HAS. SO I

COMMEND HER FOR DOING THAT AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SUPPORTING THIS

PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THANK YOU.

MR. HAWLEY.

MR. HAWLEY: MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD

FOR ONE, MAYBE TWO QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER CUSICK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. HAWLEY: SO, I'VE BEEN A NOTARY FOR 25 YEARS.

I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY. DOES THIS MEAN THAT NOW AS A NOTARY PUBLIC WHO

IS NOT AN ATTORNEY THAT WE WILL HAVE TO FILE PAPERWORK?

MS. WALKER: YES, SIR.

MR. HAWLEY: AND IF WE ATTEST THAT SOMEONE GAVE

US INFORMATION THAT PROVED THAT THEY WERE THE PERSON THAT SAID THEY

WERE AND WE NOTARIZE THAT AND THERE'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS LATER ON

WE'RE ABLE TO BE FINED?

MS. WALKER: NOT ACCORDING TO THAT PARTICULAR FACT

PATTERN. THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT A PERSON PRESENT YOU WITH VALID

IDENTIFICATION SAYING THEY ARE WHO THEY ARE, AND THE ROLE AND

RESPONSIBILITY OF YOU AS A NOTARY PUBLIC WILL BE TO CHECK THAT PERSON'S

IDENTIFICATION AND THEN TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE REQUISITE SIGNING OF

THAT PARTICULAR DOCUMENT. WHEN YOU HAVE COMPLETED THAT TASK, THEN

YOU HAVE TO FILE THE PARTICULAR RECORD WITH THE CLERK'S OFFICE. IF YOU FAIL

TO DO SO, THEN YOU CAN AND WILL BE SUBJECTED TO A PENALTY OF UP TO $250

FOR THAT FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. HAWLEY: SO MY QUESTION IS, IF A -- IF A NOTARY

IS NOT AN ATTORNEY OR FROM AN ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WHAT INCENTIVE IS THERE

FOR SOMEONE TO BECOME A NOTARY TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE TO THE GENERAL

PUBLIC WITH THE PENALTIES THAT COME WITH THIS LEGISLATION?

MS. WALKER: WELL, I AM NOT SURE IF THIS IS AN

INCENTIVIZING PIECE OF LEGISLATION. HOWEVER, SECTION 2 OF THIS

PARTICULAR BILL ALLOWS NOTARIES TO NOW CHARGE UP TO $25 WHEN

NOTARIZING A DOCUMENT OF CONVEYANCE.

MR. HAWLEY: WELL, I -- I JUST THINK THAT THE RESULT

OF THIS COULD VERY WELL BE THAT FOLKS WILL NOT WANT TO BECOME A NOTARY

AND PROVIDE SERVICES FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND I FIND ISSUES WITH THAT.

SO, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO, BUT I THINK FOR NOTARIES THAT

ARE NOT AN ATTORNEY THAT THIS SERVICE IS A DISINCENTIVE AND MAY HURT THE

AVAILABILITY FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO COME AND SEE A NOTARY WHO IS NOT

AN ATTORNEY.

MS. WALKER: WELL, I APPLAUD YOU, MR. HAWLEY,

FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO WITH RESPECT TO THE NOTARIZATION OF DOCUMENTS.

THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION ONLY SPEAKS TO THOSE DOCUMENTS

WHICH ARE RELATING TO THE TRANSFER OF RESIDENTIAL REAL PROPERTY. SO IT

DOES -- IT'S NOT A BLANKET REQUIREMENT ON ALL NOTORIAL ACTS, JUST THOSE

WHICH FALL WITHIN THAT PARTICULAR INDUSTRY.

MR. HAWLEY: THANK YOU.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 4277-A. THIS IS PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THOSE WHO

SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR, OR IF THEY'RE

COVID-IMPACTED THEY CAN VOTE YES BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY

LEADER'S OFFICE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS CONSUMER-FRIENDLY PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO

MAINTAIN THEIR PROPERTIES AND PASS ON GENERATIONAL WEALTH. HOWEVER,

THERE MAY BE COLLEAGUES WHO WOULD DECIDE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY

SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND THEIR VOTE

WILL BE PROPERLY RECORDED.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. PLEASE

RECORD MY COLLEAGUES MR. KEITH BROWN, MR. GALLAHAN, MS. GIGLIO AND

MR. MONTESANO IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED. THANK

YOU.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 17, CALENDAR NO. 148, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04396, CALENDAR NO.

148, WALKER, EPSTEIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL OBLIGATIONS LAW,

IN RELATION TO TENANT SECURITY DEPOSIT ACCOUNTS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER -- HELLO,

MS. WALKER. HOW ARE YOU?

AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU. WOW, BUSY DAY. HERE

WE ARE. PRIOR TO 1970 THERE WAS NO REQUIREMENT THAT TENANTS BE PAID

INTEREST OF THE MONEY HELD BY LANDLORDS AS SECURITY DEPOSITS FOR THEIR

APARTMENTS. IN 1970 THE GENERAL OBLIGATIONS LAW WAS AMENDED SO

THAT LANDLORDS IN BUILDINGS WITH SIX OR MORE DWELLING UNITS MUST PLACE

TENANT SECURITY DEPOSITS IN ACCOUNTS EARNING THE PREVAILING RATE OF

INTEREST FOR SIMILAR ACCOUNTS IN THE AREA. LANDLORDS MAY RETAIN THE 1

PERCENT FEE REFERENCED ABOVE RELATIVE TO SUCH ACCOUNT. WITH CURRENT

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INTEREST RATES ON SUCH ACCOUNTS SO LOW -- ABOUT 1.1 PERCENT NOW VERSUS

6 PERCENT WHEN THE GENERAL OBLIGATIONS LAW PROVISIONS WERE ENACTED

IN 1970 -- LANDLORDS GET FAR MORE BENEFIT FROM THESE ACCOUNTS. FOR

EXAMPLE, ON A $1,000 SECURITY DEPOSIT THE LANDLORD GETS $10 AND THE

TENANT NETS $1; $11 IN INTEREST MINUS $10 FOR THE LANDLORD WITHOUT

RECOGNIZING THAT THE DEPOSIT BELONGS TO THE TENANT, NOT TO THE LANDLORD.

FURTHERMORE, BANKS DO REPORT THE TENANT AS GETTING THE FULL $11 IN

INTEREST FOR TAX PURPOSES, FURTHER ERODING THEIR NET INCOME RELATIVE TO

THE INTEREST RECEIVED. AS AMENDED, THE BILL GIVES MORE OF THE INTEREST

MONEY TO THE TENANTS AND BY GIVING THE LANDLORD A PERCENTAGE OF THE

INTEREST EARNED AND INCENTIVIZE LANDLORDS TO SEEK HIGH-YIELD ACCOUNTS.

SO THIS BILL AMENDS THE GENERAL OBLIGATIONS LAW TO PROVIDE THAT THE

FEE RETAINED BY LANDLORDS FOR EXPENSES AND ADMINISTERED AS A SECURITY

DEPOSIT ACCOUNTS IS 20 PERCENT OF THE INTEREST ON SUCH ACCOUNTS, UP TO A

MAXIMUM OF 1 PERCENT ON THE AMOUNT ON DEPOSIT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD

FOR JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU SO MUCH, MS. WALKER. SO,

YOU -- YOU DID A -- YOU TOOK AWAY MY FIRST QUESTION, WHICH WAS REALLY

THE RATIONAL OR THE REASON FOR THE BILL. IT'S REALLY TO TRY TO HELP TENANTS

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

TO KEEP MORE OF THE INTEREST THAT'S ACCRUING ON THEIR SECURITY DEPOSITS.

IS THAT -- THAT'S THE PURPOSE FOR THE BILL, RIGHT?

MS. WALKER: WELL, I WOULD -- I WOULD SAY THAT

WILL -- THAT'S A RESULT OF THE BILL, BUT THE PURPOSE OF THE BILL IS TO

RECOGNIZE THAT THE SECURITY DEPOSIT, THE MONIES WHICH ARE UTILIZED FOR

THE DEPOSIT BELONGS TO THE TENANT, NOT TO THE LANDLORD. AND SO, YOU

KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S THEIRS ALREADY.

MS. WALSH: SURE. YES. SO, IN TERMS OF WHAT IS NOT

CHANGING WITH -- WITH THIS LEGISLATION, DOES IT STILL APPLY TO LANDLORDS

WITH SIX OR MORE UNITS? IT DOESN'T -- IT DOESN'T REQUIRE ANYTHING OF

LANDLORDS WITH FEWER THAN SIX UNITS; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION I

BELIEVE DEALS JUST WITH SIX OR MORE DWELLING UNITS, BUT LET ME TAKE A

CLOSER LOOK.

(PAUSE)

YES.

MS. WALSH: GREAT. I APPRECIATE THAT CLARIFICATION.

I WAS -- I WAS LEGITIMATELY WONDERING ABOUT THAT.

NOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT -- AND IT IS TRUE -- THAT

INTEREST RATES RIGHT NOW ARE, YOU KNOW, VERY LOW. A LOT LOWER THAN

THEY WERE BACK IN THE 70'S WHEN THIS WAS FIRST CREATED. SO HOW MUCH

-- HOW MUCH MORE -- HOW MUCH MORE MONEY DO YOU SEE REALLY GOING

INTO THE TENANTS' POCKET? I MEAN, I KNOW IT IS THEIR SECURITY DEPOSIT,

BUT IN TERMS OF THE INTEREST, HOW MUCH MORE OF A BENEFIT DO YOU REALLY

THINK THAT THE TENANTS WILL GET FROM -- AS A RESULT OF THIS LEGISLATION?

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MS. WALKER: WELL, THERE IS STILL AND THERE HAS

BEEN AN AMOUNT THAT IS ALLOWED TO THE LANDLORD TO DEAL WITH ANY

ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS THAT THEY MAY HAVE TO INCUR BASED ON THE HOLDING

OF THESE ACCOUNTS. AND THE REMAINDER OF THOSE RESOURCES, DEPENDING

ON THE AMOUNT OF THE SECURITY DEPOSIT, YOU KNOW, COULD BE A

SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT, PARTICULARLY WHEN WE LOOK AT RENTS PARTICULARLY IN

NEW YORK CITY WHICH CAN BE OVER $3-, $4,000 A MONTH. AND IF THEIR

SECURITY DEPOSIT IS, YOU KNOW, TWO MONTHS OF A DEPOSIT, YOU KNOW,

YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT MAY BE VERY HELPFUL TO THE TENANT.

MS. WALSH: AND -- AND AS SOMEBODY WHO LIVES

UPSTATE AND HASN'T RENTED AN APARTMENT FOREVER, IS THAT -- IS THAT PRETTY

TYPICAL DOWN IN THE CITY AREA, A COUPLE OF MONTHS RENT WOULD BE -- IT'S

ONE MONTH? IS IT ONE, TWO MONTHS OF SECURITY? (SPEAKING WITH STAFF).

OKAY, I'M BEING TOLD THAT UNDER THE 2019 LEGISLATION ONE MONTH RENT IS

AS MUCH AS COULD BE ASSESSED FOR A SECURITY DEPOSIT RATHER THAN SEVERAL.

IS THAT -- IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING AS WELL?

MS. WALKER: WELL, IT LOOKS -- IT APPEARS AS IF

YOU'RE SPEAKING TO THE EXPERT ON THIS ISSUE. LET ME CHECK IN WITH MY

EXPERT.

(PAUSE)

WELL, LET'S JUST SAY WE WILL -- WE WILL -- WE WILL TAKE

YOUR -- FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS QUESTION AND ANSWER WITH RESPECT TO THIS

BILL WE WILL TAKE YOUR EXPERT'S WORD FOR THAT. AND THAT BEING SAID, YOU

KNOW, NOTWITHSTANDING WHATEVER THE AMOUNT OF THE RENT IS, IT'S STILL,

YOU KNOW, MONIES THAT ARE -- THAT BELONG TO THE TENANT, AND I'M SURE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THAT THEY WANT TO RECEIVE WHATEVER AMOUNT OF THAT INTEREST THAT THEY ARE

ENTITLED TO.

MS. WALSH: AND AS YOU CAN PROBABLY TELL FROM MY

QUESTIONING, I DON'T PRETEND TO BE ANY KIND OF A -- OF AN EXPERT IN THIS

PARTICULAR AREA OF THE LAW, SO I'M -- I'M FEELING MY WAY THROUGH IT. BUT

I -- I WANTED TO ASK YOU, TOO, IF YOU ARE A LANDLORD, YOU HAVE HAD THE

ABILITY TO UTILIZE WHAT'S KNOWN AS THE TENANT SECURITY DEPOSIT

ACCOUNT. DOES THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION DO ANYTHING TO AFFECT A

LANDLORD'S ABILITY TO STILL UTILIZE A -- A TENANT SECURITY DEPOSIT

ACCOUNT, WHICH SOME BANKS DO OFFER?

MS. WALKER: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS AFFECTS THE

TYPE OF ACCOUNT, NO.

MS. WALSH: SO A LANDLORD CAN STILL OPT TO UTILIZE IT.

AND I GUESS THE BENEFIT, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, OF DOING IT THAT WAY,

THROUGH THE TENANT SECURITY DEPOSIT ACCOUNT IS THEN THE BANK TAKES

CARE OF SOME OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE REQUIREMENTS, YOU KNOW,

ACCOUNTING FOR THE SECURITY DEPOSITS VERSUS THE LANDLORD HAVING TO DO IT

HIM OR HERSELF. SO ANYWAY, THAT'S WHY --

MS. WALKER: SO, ARE YOU SAYING, THEN, THAT WE

SHOULD REMOVE THE ABILITY FOR THE LANDLORDS TO BE ABLE TO BE ENTITLED TO

SOME OF THEIR COSTS FOR MAINTAINING THE ACCOUNTS SINCE THE BANK IS

DOING THESE THINGS THEMSELVES?

MS. WALSH: NO. I'M A BIG PROPONENT OF HAVING

MANY OPTIONS. I JUST LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE, SO I APPRECIATE

THAT. SO, LET'S SEE. I THINK THAT IS REALLY THE GIST OF WHAT I WANTED TO ASK

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

YOU ABOUT. I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU.

MS. WALSH: AND, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MS.

WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU SO MUCH. SO, I -- I DO

UNDERSTAND THE IDEA THAT A SECURITY DEPOSIT IS -- IS A TENANT'S MONEY,

AND I THINK THAT THE LANDLORD NEEDS TO ACT AS A STEWARD, AS A REASONABLE

STEWARD OF THAT MONEY TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS IN AN INTEREST-BEARING

ACCOUNT, AND THAT THIS LEGISLATION WILL ACT AS AN INCENTIVE FOR THE

LANDLORD TO SEEK OUT AN INTEREST-BEARING ACCOUNT THAT YIELDS THE MOST

INTEREST, AND -- AND THAT'S A GOOD THING, I THINK. THE ONLY THING IS IS

UNDER OUR CURRENT SITUATION WITH OUR -- IN OUR ECONOMY JUST WITH

INTEREST RATES, IT MIGHT BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR A LANDLORD OR ANY OF US,

REALLY, TO FIND AN ACCOUNT THAT'S GOING TO YIELD A DECENT INTEREST THESE

DAYS. IT'S VERY, VERY LOW. CERTAINLY MUCH LOWER THAN IT WAS IN 1970

WHEN IT WAS AROUND MAYBE 6 PERCENT INTEREST TO AROUND 1 TO 2 PERCENT

MAYBE TODAY. BUT THAT BEING SAID, I DO UNDERSTAND THE APPEAL OF THIS

BILL, AND I DO APPRECIATE THAT IT -- IT APPLIES TO LANDLORDS WITH SIX OR

MORE UNITS. AND ALTHOUGH I DID NOT ASK THIS QUESTION, I BELIEVE IT'S ALSO

ACCURATE TO SAY THAT IT ONLY APPLIES TO RESIDENTIAL LANDLORDS RATHER THAN

COMMERCIAL LANDLORDS. SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LANDLORD THAT'S GOT SIX

OR MORE FAMILY DWELLING UNITS. AND SO THOSE PEOPLE THAT WILL SUPPORT

THIS BILL WILL EMBRACE THE IDEA OF MAXIMIZING THE AMOUNT OF MONEY

THAT GOES INTO THE TENANT'S POCKET. ONCE THAT SECURITY DEPOSIT IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

RETURNED OR SOONER BECAUSE I -- FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IT CAN PAID OUT

ANNUALLY, THE PORTION OF THE INTEREST THAT IS THE TENANT'S ON THAT SECURITY

DEPOSIT, AT THE TENANT'S OPTION. I JUST -- I QUESTION WHETHER IT'S REALLY

GOING TO RESULT IN THAT MUCH MORE MONEY TO THE TENANT, BUT I DO

APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S INTENT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER THAT AMOUNT

IS THAT THE TENANT IS GOING TO BE RECEIVING A GREATER SHARE VERSUS THE

LANDLORD. I -- I WOULD JUST SAY, I GUESS IN CLOSING, THAT GIVEN THE

PARTICULAR DIFFICULTIES THAT LANDLORDS HAVE EXPERIENCED OVER THE LAST

COUPLE OF YEARS IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO COLLECT RENTS DURING THE

COVID PANDEMIC, IT DOES SEEM TO BE A CHANGE IN THE LAW THAT WILL NOT

BE A FINANCIAL BENEFIT TO THE LANDLORDS. SO -- BUT I -- I DON'T KNOW THAT

REALLY IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOLLARS AND CENTS HOW MUCH REALLY IT'S

GOING TO DO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER FOR LANDLORDS OR TENANTS.

AND WITH THAT, THOSE ARE REALLY MY COMMENTS. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MS.

WALSH.

MR. MANKTELOW.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ONE MINUTE, MR.

MANKTELOW. YOU'VE GOT TO -- WE HAVE A GATHERING BEHIND YOU. HI,

GATHERING. THANK YOU. PROCEED, SIR.

MR. MANKTELOW: THEY DIDN'T USE ANY OF MY

TIME, DID THEY?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NO.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. MANKTELOW: JUST KIDDING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I HAVEN'T STARTED THE

CLOCK -- THEY HAVEN'T STARTED THE CLOCK.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR ONE QUESTION, PLEASE?

MS. WALKER: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER YIELDS.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MS. WALKER. JUST

ONE QUESTION. WE ALL KNOW WHAT SECURITY DEPOSITS ARE FOR, IN CASE A

TENANT DECIDES TO LEAVE AND THEY DAMAGE THE APARTMENT OR THE LEASED

BUILDING, WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING, TO HELP COVER SOME OF THOSE

EXPENSES. AS THEY DO THAT, AND LET'S SAY THE TENANT LEAVES, ANY INTEREST

THAT'S ACCRUED THROUGH THAT MONEY WITH A SECURITY DEPOSIT AND IF THERE'S

MORE DAMAGE THAN WHAT THE SECURITY DEPOSIT COVERS, WOULD THAT

INTEREST GO TO THAT SECURITY DEPOSIT, AS WELL, TO HELP COVER THE DAMAGES?

MS. WALKER: I -- YES.

MR. MANKTELOW: IT WOULD?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. THAT'S IT, SIMPLE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MS. WALKER: THANKS.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

(LAUGHTER)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR.

MANKTELOW.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 4396. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER AND

COLLEAGUES, IF WE CAN CONTINUE OUR WORK ON DEBATE, WE'RE GOING TO GO

TO RULES REPORT NO. 366 BY MR. GOTTFRIED; FOLLOWED BY -- I'M SORRY,

THAT'S NOT A RULES REPORT, MR. SPEAKER, THAT'S A CALENDAR NO. 366; AND

THEN CALENDAR NO. 420 BY MS. PAULIN.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. NO. 366,

THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08472, CALENDAR NO.

366, GOTTFRIED, PAULIN, SIMON, SEAWRIGHT, HEVESI, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS,

ENGLEBRIGHT, GALEF, KELLES, CAHILL, SAYEGH, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO THE ESTABLISHMENT, INCORPORATION,

CONSTRUCTION, OR INCREASE IN CAPACITY OF FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MR. GOTTFRIED.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. GOTTFRIED: MR. SPEAKER, THIS BILL PROVIDES

THAT NEW YORK SHALL NOT LICENSE ANY FUTURE FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE

PROGRAMS, AND ANY HOSPICE PROVIDER -- ANY FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE PROVIDER

THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS SHALL NOT BE AUTHORIZED TO EXPAND ITS CAPACITY. WE

NOW HAVE ROUGHLY 40 NOT-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE PROGRAMS OPERATING IN

NEW YORK, AND I THINK THE COUNT IS TWO FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES. SO

FORTUNATELY, WE WOULD BE ACTING BEFORE THE HORSE IS OUT OF THE BARN.

THE REASON FOR THIS BILL IS BEST STATED IN A RECENT

ARTICLE IN THE JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, WHICH

STUDIED FOR-PROFIT VERSUS NON-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES AND FOUND, AND I'M

QUOTING HERE, "FOR-PROFIT COMPARED WITH NON-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES

PROVIDE NARROW IN RANGES OF SERVICE TO PATIENTS, USE LESS SKILLED CLINICAL

STAFF, CARE FOR PATIENTS WITH LOWER SKILLED NEEDS, HAVE HIGHER RATES OF

COMPLAINT ALLEGATIONS AND DEFICIENCIES, AND PROVIDE FEWER COMMUNITY

BENEFITS INCLUDING TRAINING, RESEARCH, AND CHARITY CARE. FOR-PROFIT

HOSPICES ARE MORE LIKELY THAN NON-PROFIT HOSPICES TO DISCHARGE

PATIENTS PRIOR TO DEATH, TO DISCHARGE PATIENTS WITH DEMENTIA, AND TO

HAVE HIGHER RATES OF HOSPITAL AND EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT USE." THANK

YOU.

MR. BYRNE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER; THANK YOU TO

THE SPONSOR. WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BYRNE ASKED YOU

TO YIELD, MR. GOTTFRIED.

MR. GOTTFRIED: YES.

MR. BYRNE: THANK YOU. AND THIS IS A SIMILAR, BUT

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

DIFFERENT DEBATE THAT WE HAD A FEW WEEKS AGO REGARDING RESTRICTION ON

FOR-PROFIT NURSING HOMES. SO IF SOME OF THE QUESTIONS SOUND FAMILIAR,

THAT SHOULD NOT COME AS A SURPRISE. YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE'S ONLY

TWO OF THE 40-SOME-ODD HOSPICE FACILITIES IN NEW YORK ARE FOR-PROFIT.

DO YOU KNOW IF -- HOW MANY VIOLATIONS MAY HAVE OCCURRED AT ANY OF

THESE FACILITIES, SPECIFIC TO NEW YORK? I KNOW YOU MENTIONED A STUDY

IN YOUR EXPLANATION, WHICH I APPRECIATE, THAT SEEMS TO COVER PROBABLY

HOSPICE -- HOSPICE FACILITIES IN THE FOR-PROFIT SECTOR OUTSIDE OF NEW

YORK. IF THERE'S ONLY TWO IN NEW YORK, DO YOU HAVE ANY DATA ON THOSE

TWO FACILITIES?

MR. GOTTFRIED: I DO NOT, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I

DON'T HAVE DATA ON HOW BAD THE CARE WILL BE BY THE NEXT 20 FOR-PROFIT

ENTITIES THAT COME INTO THIS FIELD, AND I WANT TO STOP THEM BEFORE IT'S TOO

LATE.

MR. BYRNE: WELL, IF WE'RE GOING TO SUPPORT A

CHANGE THAT IS GOING TO PROHIBIT EXISTING FACILITIES FROM BUILDING AND

EXPANDING CAPACITY, SIMILAR TO THE LEGISLATION THAT WE DEBATED A FEW

WEEKS AGO ON NURSING HOMES, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THEIR

PERFORMANCE AND THE SERVICES THAT THEY'RE PROVIDING TO PEOPLE. AND

OBVIOUSLY, I THINK A HOSPICE FACILITY AND PALLIATIVE CARE IS EXTREMELY

IMPORTANT TO A LOT OF FOLKS AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S VERY SENSITIVE TO

MANY PEOPLE THAT NEED THOSE SERVICES.

ANOTHER QUESTION THAT MAY SOUND FAMILIAR, I'M GOING

THROUGH --

MR. GOTTFRIED: BY THE WAY, IF THAT WAS A

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QUESTION, I'D LIKE TO ANSWER IT.

MR. BYRNE: GO AHEAD, YEAH.

MR. GOTTFRIED: THE FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES ARE

RELATIVELY NEW AND SO IT MAY JUST BE THAT THEY'VE BEEN ON GOOD

BEHAVIOR. WHEN THEY GET MORE ESTABLISHED, WHAT THE JAMA ARTICLE

TELLS US IS THAT WE HAD BETTER EXPECT POOR TREATMENT OF SOME OF THE MOST

VULNERABLE NEW YORKERS. WE DON'T NEED FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES IN THIS

FIELD, AND IT IS SAFER TO DO WITHOUT THEM.

MR. BYRNE: NOW, AS A STATE, AGAIN, REMINISCENT OF

OUR DEBATE ON THE NURSING HOMES, AS FAR AS HOSPICE FACILITIES, DO YOU

BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE A CAPACITY TO ACCOMMODATE A GROWING AGING

POPULATION IN NEW YORK FOR THOSE WHO NEED HOSPICE CARE?

MR. GOTTFRIED: WE COULD CERTAINLY USE MORE

HOSPICE SERVICES IN NEW YORK. NEW YORKERS, UNFORTUNATELY, ARE

AMONG THE LOWEST UTILIZERS OF HOSPICE CARE IN THE COUNTRY, SO I HAVEN'T

HEARD ANYONE SAYING THAT WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE CLAMORING TO GET INTO

HOSPICE THAN WE HAVE PROVIDERS FOR THEM. WHAT'S SIGNIFICANT HERE

COMPARING THIS TO -- TO NURSING HOMES, PERHAPS, IS THAT UNLIKE NURSING

HOMES YOU DON'T NEED A HEAVY CAPITAL INVESTMENT TO START A HOSPICE

PROGRAM. IT IS ALMOST ENTIRELY PROVIDED AS -- ESSENTIALLY AS A -- AS A

SPECIAL FORM OF HOME CARE AND, THEREFORE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY

ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EXPANDING -- WELL, EXPANDING HOSPICE CAPACITY DOES

NOT REQUIRE FINDING A SITE, GETTING A -- GETTING A BUILDING BUILT, ET CETERA,

ET CETERA. IT'S MORE AKIN TO EXPANDING A HOME HEALTH AGENCY. SO IF WE

DO NEED MORE HOSPICE ENTITIES FORMED IN NEW YORK - AND I DON'T KNOW

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THAT WE NEED MORE ENTITIES FORMED AS OPPOSED TO ENABLING THEM TO HIRE

MORE PEOPLE - IF WE DO NEED MORE ENTITIES FORMED, THERE'S NO REASON TO

THINK THAT WE WOULD BE DEPENDENT ON FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES IN ORDER FOR

THAT TO HAPPEN.

MR. BYRNE: THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR.

ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. BYRNE: I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HIS

EXPLANATION. THIS DEBATE IS SIMILAR TO A, AGAIN, A SEPARATE BILL THAT WE

REFERENCED AND THAT DEBATE WAS MUCH LONGER. I DON'T NEED TO RELITIGATE

EVERY SINGLE ISSUE BECAUSE THERE ARE VERY SIMILAR ARGUMENTS WHERE THE

SPONSOR SEEMS TO FEEL THAT THE FOR-PROFIT INDUSTRY IS SOMEHOW NOT

MOTIVATED TO PROVIDE THE SAME TYPE OF TOP-NOTCH QUALITY CARE AND

SERVICES TO THE PATIENTS AND THE PEOPLE THAT THEY SERVE. I CAN TELL YOU

THAT ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, BEFORE I SERVED IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE I

WORKED AS AN EMT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, I'VE SPOKEN WITH A SOME MY

COLLEAGUES ABOUT THAT, AND I TRANSPORTED PATIENTS FROM HOSPITALS FROM

THEIR -- THEIR RESIDENCES TO HOSPICE FACILITIES THROUGHOUT WESTCHESTER

AND THE BRONX, AND I'M JUST SAYING REGARDLESS IF THEY'RE NON-PROFIT OR

WHAT THEIR STATUS IS, THE PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THESE FACILITIES ARE TRULY

PASSIONATE PEOPLE, CARING PEOPLE. IT TAKES A SPECIAL KIND OF PERSON TO

TAKE ON THAT VOCATION TO WORK IN THAT FIELD. IT'S VERY PAINFUL FOR THE

FAMILIES THAT HAVE PEOPLE IN HOSPICE. AND I'M ALSO THANKFUL TO THE

PEOPLE THAT PROVIDE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE

DELIVERING THAT CARE TO THOSE PEOPLE, SOME OF OUR MOST VULNERABLE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

POPULATIONS.

I ALSO WANT TO NOTE THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT THE STATE

IS DOING AND THIS LEGISLATURE IS CONSIDERING AND SUPPORTING TO TRY TO

MAKE SURE THAT WE IMPROVE AND PUT GREATER FOCUS ON HOSPICE AND

PALLIATIVE CARE. JUST THIS WEEK IN THE HEALTH COMMITTEE, REPORTED A BILL

OUT THAT WOULD CREATE THE OFFICE OF HOSPICE AND PALLIATIVE CARE ACCESS

AND QUALITY. I THINK IT WAS PASSED WITH STRONG BIPARTISAN SUPPORT. I

THINK IT WAS UNANIMOUS. SO THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD THINGS THAT WE DO IN

THIS CHAMBER. I DON'T BELIEVE LIMITING THE GROWTH OF A FOR-PROFIT

INDUSTRY IS THE RIGHT ANSWER WHEN I SAID IT REPEATEDLY THAT WE SHOULD BE

EMBRACING BOTH THE NON-PROFIT AND THE FOR-PROFIT SECTORS WHEN WE WANT

TO LOOK AT A HEALTHY MIX TO EXPAND ACCESS TO CARE, AND THAT WOULD

INCLUDE HOSPICE CARE.

WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

NEGATIVE AND ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. JENSEN.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUESTION?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOTTFRIED, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. GOTTFRIED: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOTTFRIED YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I JUST

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

WANT TO ASK A BRIEF QUESTION FOR CLARIFICATION AND LEGISLATIVE INTENT

PURPOSES. IN LINE 6 AND 7 OF THE LEGISLATION IT STATES THAT "NO INCREASED

CAPACITY SHALL BE APPROVED FOR ANY EXISTING HOSPICE THAT IS OPERATED ON

A FOR-PROFIT BASIS OR BY A FOR-PROFIT ENTITY IN WHOLE OR IN PART." MY

QUESTION IS IF A NOT-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE ENTITY WANTS TO CONTRACT WITH A

FOR-PROFIT LONG-TERM CARE FACILITY, PERHAPS BECAUSE THAT FACILITY IS NOT

USING ALL THEIR LICENSED BEDS, WOULD THAT NOT-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE

PROVIDER BE ABLE TO EXECUTE THAT CONTRACT IF THEY HAVE TO RELY ON STAFF OR

MAYBE SOME SURPRISE OF A FOR-PROFIT ENTITY?

MR. GOTTFRIED: IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION

RIGHT, NOTHING IN THIS BILL WOULD INTERFERE WITH ANY HOSPICE ENTITY,

WHETHER FOR-PROFIT OR NOT-FOR-PROFIT, FROM PROVIDING SERVICES TO

RESIDENTS OF A NURSING HOME WHETHER THE NURSING HOME IS FOR-PROFIT OR

NOT-FOR-PROFIT. IT FOCUSES ONLY ON THE FORM OF ORGANIZATION OF THE

HOSPICE ITSELF.

MR. JENSEN: OKAY. SO IT'S JUST -- IT'S WHOEVER

HOLDS THE LICENSE FOR THE HOSPICE, THE DIRECT HOSPICE CARE AND NOT AN

ENTITY THAT THEY'D BE CONTRACTED WITH TO PROVIDE JANITORIAL, FOOD

SERVICE...

MR. GOTTFRIED: IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION

CORRECTLY, THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. JENSEN: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

CHAIRMAN.

MR. GOTTFRIED: YOU'RE WELCOME.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. MONTESANO.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOTTFRIED?

MR. GOTTFRIED: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOTTFRIED YIELDS.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.

WHAT STATE AGENCY OVERSEES THE OPERATION OF A HOSPICE?

MR. GOTTFRIED: THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

MR. MONTESANO: OKAY. AND HAS -- RELATIVE TO

WHAT YOU SPOKE ABOUT BEFORE ABOUT THE FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES VERSUS THE

NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES, DO YOU HAVE ANY STATISTICS ON THE AMOUNT OF

COMPLAINTS THAT EITHER HAVE RECEIVED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH?

MR. GOTTFRIED: I GUESS MY ANSWER IS PRETTY

MUCH THE SAME AS TO MR. BYRNE'S QUESTION, WHICH WAS PRETTY MUCH THE

SAME, WHICH IS NO, I DON'T HAVE THAT DATA.

MR. MONTESANO: NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU

READ AN ARTICLE IN JAMA AND THEY ALLUDED TO THE FACT THAT THE FOR-PROFIT

HOSPICE OPERATORS WERE MORE LIKELY TO DELIVER IMPROPER SERVICE OR

HAVE COMPLAINTS FILED AGAINST THEM?

MR. GOTTFRIED: YES.

MR. MONTESANO: OKAY. AND DID THEY GIVE A

REASON WHY THEY CAME TO THAT CONCLUSION?

MR. GOTTFRIED: WELL, THE ARTICLE BASICALLY WAS

OBSERVING WHAT THE DATA IS AND REPORTING ON THE DATA. I DON'T THINK IT

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GOT INTO EDITORIALIZING ON WHY FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES MIGHT BE BEHAVING

THAT WAY. I REALLY DON'T RECALL WHETHER IT DID OR NOT. I THINK I KNOW

WHY, IF -- AND I'D BE HAPPY TO TELL YOU IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO.

MR. MONTESANO: SURE.

MR. GOTTFRIED: YEAH, IT'S BECAUSE THE OWNERS OF

A FOR-PROFIT ENTITY HAVE A LEGAL OBLIGATION TO THEIR STOCKHOLDERS TO SPEND

-- EXCUSE ME, TO SPEND AS LITTLE OF THEIR STOCKHOLDER'S MONEY ON

PROVIDING CARE AS POSSIBLE; THAT'S BEEN THE OBLIGATION OF THE OWNERS OF

A FOR-PROFIT ENTITY FOR ABOUT AS LONG AS WE'VE HAD FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES.

NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES EXIST WITH A LEGAL OBLIGATION TO SERVE A MISSION

STATEMENT AND WHATEVER THE REASONS ARE, THE PLAIN FACT IS THAT

STATISTICALLY FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES DO A MUCH WORSE JOB FOR SOME OF THE

FRAILEST PEOPLE IN OUR SOCIETY, DO A MUCH WORSE JOB THAN NOT-FOR-PROFIT

ENTITIES. AND WHILE THAT MAY BE UNPLEASANT FOR PEOPLE WHO -- AN

UNPLEASANT THOUGHT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMPLETE FAITH IN EVERYTHING

THAT'S RUN FOR-PROFIT, THAT MAY BE DISAPPOINTING, BUT IT'S REALITY.

MR. MONTESANO: WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS:

DOESN'T THE NON-FOR-PROFIT OPERATORS, WHILE THEY HAVE A MISSION

STATEMENT TO COMPLY WITH, AREN'T THEY ALSO ANSWERABLE TO A BOARD OF

DIRECTORS?

MR. GOTTFRIED: THEY'RE ANSWERABLE TO A BOARD OF

DIRECTORS WHO, IN TURN, ARE OBLIGATED TO ADVANCE THE MISSION OF THE

ENTITY. THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS DO NOT -- DO NOT MAKE A PROFIT.

MR. MONTESANO: CORRECT, BUT ALSO THEY DO

MANAGE THE EXPENDITURES OF THE ORGANIZATION AND THAT'S WHY WE SEE IN

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SOME NOT-FOR-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS A LITTLE BIT OF THE MONEY GETS SPENT

ON THE MISSION AND THE REST GOES INTO THE POCKETS OF THE DIRECTORS AND

OTHER SENIOR ADMINISTRATIVE EMPLOYEES TO THE TUNE OF SIX-FIGURES EACH

PER YEAR. SO THERE'S AN INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO SPEND LESS ON THE PATIENTS

ALSO SO THEY CAN ENHANCE THEIR SALARIES AND THEIR BENEFITS; WOULDN'T YOU

AGREE WITH THAT?

MR. GOTTFRIED: NO. A COUPLE OF THINGS: ONE IS

THE MONEY THAT IS DRAWN OUT OF AN INSTITUTION THAT GOES TO, AS ORDINARY

INCOME TO THE SALARIES OF THE CEO REALLY PALES IN COMPARISON WITH THE

MONEY THAT IS DRAWN OUT OF FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES THAT GOES TO THE OWNERS IN

THE FORM OF DIVIDENDS OR CAPITAL GAINS WHICH ARE, BY THE WAY, TAXED

MUCH MORE FAVORABLY THAN -- THAN -- THAN EARNED INCOME. THAT'S

NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, WHATEVER YOU MIGHT THINK THAT THERE MIGHT

BE A POTENTIAL FOR THE CEO OF A NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITY TO CARE LITTLE ABOUT

THE QUALITY OF THE SERVICES AND FOCUS MAINLY ON FATTENING HIS OR HER

OWN SALARY, WHATEVER YOU MAY THINK OF THE REALITY OF THAT PROPOSITION,

THE UNDERLYING REALITY IS THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE STATISTICS ON QUALITY

OF CARE IN FOR-PROFIT HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS VERSUS NON-PROFIT HEALTH CARE

PROVIDERS, THE REALITY AND THE STATISTICS IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE JOURNAL

OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION FOUND IN THEIR ANALYSIS OF

FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES. SO WHATEVER THE ECONOMIC THEORY MIGHT LEAD YOU

TO SURMISE, THE STATISTICS TELL AN UNMISTAKABLE AND HORRIFYING STORY.

MR. MONTESANO: WELL, THEY MAY TELL THAT STORY

IN HOSPITALS, IN HEALTH CARE FACILITIES, BUT YOU YOURSELF ADMITTED EARLIER

THEY HAVE NO STATISTICS ON THE HOSPICES, ESPECIALLY THE TWO OF THEM THAT

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ARE LOCATED IN THE STATE. I SUBMIT TO YOU THAT THE --

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MR. GOTTFRIED: THE FACT THAT --

MR. MONTESANO: (INAUDIBLE) -- BY INSURANCE

CARRIERS.

MR. GOTTFRIED: YEAH. THE FACT THAT I DON'T KNOW

HOW MANY VIOLATIONS A GIVEN HOSPICE HAS HAD DOESN'T TELL US WHETHER

STATISTICALLY IT IS DANGEROUS FOR DYING PATIENTS TO BE IN THE HANDS OF A

FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE. AND WHILE WE MAY ONLY HAVE TWO OF THEM TODAY,

THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE WON'T HAVE 20 OF THEM TOMORROW. THERE WAS A

TIME WHEN WE HAD VERY FEW FOR-PROFIT NURSING HOMES IN THIS STATE, BUT

THEIR ABILITY TO ATTRACT CAPITAL IN THE STOCKMARKET ENABLED THEM TO GROW

TO A POINT WHERE THEY ARE NOW TWO-THIRDS OF THE NURSING HOME WORLD IN

NEW YORK.

I -- I -- IT SCARES THE DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ME TO THINK THAT

WE WILL HAVE A SIMILAR GROWTH OF FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES IN THIS STATE, AND

I THINK IF WE ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN, WE ARE JEOPARDIZING THE WELFARE OF

DYING NEW YORKERS, AND THERE'S NO GOOD REASON WHY, OTHER THAN --

OTHER THAN WANTING TO GO OUT OF OUR WAY TO ENRICH THE OWNERS OF

POTENTIAL FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES, BUT THERE'S NO RATIONALE HAVING TO DO WITH

THE WELFARE OF DYING NEW YORKERS THAT WOULD LEAD US TO WANT TO LEAVE

THE DOOR OPEN FOR FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES. THERE IS NOTHING FOR DYING NEW

YORKERS TO BE GAINED FROM LEAVING THE DOOR OPEN TO FOR-PROFIT

HOSPICES IN NEW YORK.

MR. MONTESANO: MR. GOTTFRIED, THANK YOU.

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MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU. MR. SPEAKER, THIS

IS ONCE AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE TAKE A -- THIS BILL TAKES THE POSITION THAT

SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING WRONG WITHOUT ANY PROOF OF IT. I WOULD

SUBMIT THAT IF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH OF THIS STATE HAD ISSUES WITH

FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES, THEY WOULD BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION, FIRST OF ALL, TO

THEMSELVES AND REGULATORS AND TAKE THE APPROPRIATE ACTION. AND IF THEY

FELT A CHANGE WAS NEEDED, THEY WOULD BRING THAT TO THE LEGISLATURE.

IT SEEMS THAT WE'RE SEEING A PATTERN OF BILLS HERE THAT

BENEFIT NOT-FOR-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS TO CAPITALIZE AND TO GET INVOLVED IN

THE DELIVERY OF CARE, WHETHER IT BE NURSING HOMES, HOSPITALS; OF COURSE,

IF ANYBODY REALIZES IN THIS STATE, THERE IS NO FOR-PROFIT HOSPITALS, AND

NOW THEY MOVE TO HOSPICE. SO RECENTLY I HAD AN EXPERIENCE WITH A

LONG-TIME DEAR FRIEND THAT WAS ADMITTED INTO A NON-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE

AND AFTER SIX DAYS, THE HEAD NURSE CAME INTO THE ROOM AND SAID TO THE

FAMILY THAT WAS STANDING THERE BY MY SIDE TELLING THEM THAT THE LIMIT IS

SIX DAYS WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANIES. IF THEY CAN'T -- IF THEY DON'T DIE

IN SIX DAYS, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN STRETCH IT MAYBE TO SEVEN OR EIGHT, THEN

THEY HAVE TO DISCHARGE THEM AND BRING THEM BACK WHEN THEY ARE MORE

NEAR DEATH. SO -- AND YEAH, SOME OF THESE PEOPLE MAY HAVE DEMENTIA,

BUT THESE THINGS ARE NOT BEING PUSHED BY THE FACILITIES, IT'S THE

INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE EXERCISING CONTROL OVER ALL FACILITIES, WHETHER

THEY'RE FOR-PROFIT OR NON-FOR-PROFIT.

SO TO TURN AROUND AND FOR THE SPONSOR TO CHASTISE THE

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FOR-PROFITS AND DEMONIZING THEM AND MAKING THEM EVIL WITHOUT ANY

BASIS, WITHOUT US SEEING ANY STATISTICAL DATA OR INFORMATION I THINK IS

REALLY WRONG AND AN INAPPROPRIATE APPLICATION OF LEGISLATION TO PREVENT

THIS. IT'S -- NOT-FOR-PROFITS SHOULD NOT HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE FULL CONTROL

OF ALL THESE BUSINESSES BECAUSE THEY HAVE ULTERIOR MOTIVES, ALSO. AND

THEY CUT CORNERS ON THE DELIVERY OF THEIR CARE, ALSO, SO THEY CAN PAY

ENHANCED SALARIES TO THEIR ADMINISTRATORS, THEIR BOARD MEMBERS, AND

ALSO IN THE REALM OF, YOU KNOW, BENEFITS THAT THEY GET, VEHICLES THEY

GIVE THEM, AND ALL THESE EXTRA LITTLE PERKS. SO THEY MAY NOT GET IT IN

STOCK, THEY MAY NOT GET IT IN DIVIDENDS, BUT THEY CERTAINLY GET IT

THROUGH OTHER FORMS.

SO I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT'S MORE

IMPORTANT FOR THE PEOPLE IN THIS STATE, THAT THERE'S FACILITIES AVAILABLE TO

TAKE CARE OF THEM FOR PALLIATIVE CARE OR WHEN THEY'RE NEAR DEATH AND

THEY NEED HOSPICE CARE. I MEAN, WE HAVE LOBBYISTS AROUND US EVERY

YEAR TALKING ABOUT COMPASSIONATE CARE, PALLIATIVE CARE, YOU KNOW,

HOSPICE. EVERYBODY WANTS THESE SERVICES, BUT THEN YOU WANT TO

DEMONIZE THE DIFFERENT PROVIDERS WHO DELIVER THE SERVICE BECAUSE THEY

MAKE AN INCOME FROM THE DELIVERY OF THE SERVICE. YOU KNOW, IT ALMOST

SEEMS TO ME THAT IN THIS LEGISLATURE, WE DEMONIZE ANY BUSINESS THAT

SEEKS TO MAKE A PROFIT ON THE CARE OR SERVICES THAT THEY DELIVER,

WHETHER IT BE MEDICAL, WHETHER IT BE, YOU KNOW, NURSING HOMES,

HOSPICE, NEXT WE'LL BE PICKING ON THE PHARMACISTS AND THE DRUGSTORES

SAYING THEY CAN'T MAKE A PROFIT EITHER, THEY ALL HAVE TO BE A

NON-FOR-PROFIT ENTITY BECAUSE NO ONE SHOULD PROFIT OFF THE SALE OF

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MEDICATIONS AND -- WHETHER THEY BE BY PRESCRIPTION OR THEY BE

OVER-THE-COUNTER.

SO I THINK THE TIME HAS COME, WE REALLY HAVE TO LOOK

SERIOUSLY AT THIS AND CONSIDER THE RAMIFICATIONS. SO I'M NOT ABLE TO

SUPPORT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I

WOULD ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER DOING THE SAME. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. DURSO.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOTTFRIED, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. GOTTFRIED: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOTTFRIED YIELDS.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED. SO JUST TO

DOVETAIL OFF MY COLLEAGUE'S LAST COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, SO I'M SURE I'LL

REPEAT A COUPLE, WHO DID THE STUDY AGAIN THAT YOU REFERENCED IN YOUR

SPONSOR'S MEMO?

MR. GOTTFRIED: IT WAS PUBLISHED IN THE JOURNAL

OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION. I DON'T HAVE THE CREDENTIALS OF

THE AUTHORS IN FRONT OF ME, BUT JAMA DOES NOT PUBLISH RESEARCH

ARTICLES WITHOUT EXTENSIVE PEER REVIEW AND VETTING.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO NOW WITHIN THAT ARTICLE THAT

YOU OBVIOUSLY READ AND STUDIED, DID THEY MENTION EITHER THE TWO

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FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES THAT ARE WITHIN NEW YORK STATE, OR THE 40 NON-PROFIT

ENTITIES THAT ARE IN NEW YORK STATE?

MR. GOTTFRIED: NO.

MR. DURSO: OKAY, SO...

MR. GOTTFRIED: WELL, LET ME CORRECT THAT.

MR. DURSO: SURE.

MR. GOTTFRIED: I DON'T KNOW WHAT ENTITIES WERE

IN THEIR SAMPLE, SO I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHETHER ANY OF THEM WERE IN

NEW YORK. THEY WERE CERTAINLY NOT THE -- SPECIFICALLY THE FOCUS, BUT

THERE IS NO REASON TO THINK THAT FOR-PROFIT AND NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES IN

NEW YORK SOMEHOW BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY FROM FOR-PROFIT AND

NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY, OR THAT THE NEXT 20 FOR-PROFIT

ENTITIES THAT MIGHT GET FORMED IN NEW YORK IN THE HOSPICE WORLD,

THERE'S NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD SUDDENLY BEHAVE MORE

VIRTUOUSLY THAN THE ONES THAT -- THAT PRODUCED THE STATISTICS THAT JAMA

FOUND.

MR. DURSO: WELL, THE ONES THAT OPERATE IN NEW

YORK STATE FALL UNDER THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, CORRECT, YOU SAID?

MR. GOTTFRIED: YES.

MR. DURSO: BUT THEY'RE REGULATED BY THE

DEPARTMENT --

MR. GOTTFRIED: THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH THAT

WHEN IT COMES TO THE QUALITY OF THEIR INSPECTING, AND I -- I WOULD

IMAGINE ALL OF US HAVE HAD THIS KIND OF CONCERN RAISED IN OUR DISTRICTS

ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, NURSING HOMES, THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WHEN IT

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COMES TO THE QUALITY OF THEIR INSPECTING HAS, AT MANY POINTS IN ITS

HISTORY, LEFT A LOT TO BE DESIRED.

MR. DURSO: WELL, I CAN AGREE WITH YOU THERE, AND

-- BUT MY QUESTION STILL REMAINS THE SAME. SO YOU'RE NOT SURE, YOU CAN'T

SAY IF THEY DID OR IF THEY DID NOT USE ANY OF THE 40 NON-FOR-PROFIT

HOSPICE CARE FACILITIES OR THE TWO FOR-PROFIT IN NEW YORK STATE WITHIN

THEIR ARTICLE, RIGHT? SO YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE STATISTICS, YOU'RE NOT SURE

INCLUDE OR DO NOT INCLUDE THIS; THAT WAS WHAT YOU WERE JUST SAYING,

CORRECT?

MR. GOTTFRIED: AND AS I HAVE SAID TWICE ON THE

FLOOR, ESSENTIALLY ANSWERING, ESSENTIALLY THE SAME QUESTION, THAT IS

CORRECT. WHAT WE DO KNOW FROM THIS ARTICLE IS HOW FOR-PROFIT VERSUS

NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES IN THE HOSPICE WORLD OPERATE ALL AROUND THE

COUNTRY. AND NO ONE HAS SUGGESTED ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT

SOMEHOW MIRACULOUSLY WHEN THEY SET UP OPERATION IN NEW YORK THEY

BEHAVE PROFOUNDLY DIFFERENTLY FROM THE WAY THEY BEHAVE ALL OVER THE

COUNTRY.

MR. DURSO: WELL, I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT NEW YORK

SETS A STANDARD IN A LOT OF THINGS, I BELIEVE ALL OF US --

MR. GOTTFRIED: WELL, YOU MIGHT LIKE TO THINK

THAT, I THINK YOU'D BE WRONG.

MR. DURSO: WELL, I THINK THAT'S A SHAME THAT WITH

ALL THE RULES --

MR. GOTTFRIED: YES, IT'S A SHAME. IT'S A CRYING

SHAME. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T TRUE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. DURSO: MR. GOTTFRIED, I WOULD --

MR. GOTTFRIED: BUT YOU --

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MR. DURSO: NO, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S TRUE

THAT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN TAKING THE AMERICAN MEDICAL JOURNAL, COULD

HAVE TAKEN THE STUDY IN OKLAHOMA OR IN FLORIDA OR IN NEBRASKA --

MR. GOTTFRIED: NO.

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MR. DURSO: -- THAT HAVE DIFFERENT REGULATIONS THAN

NEW YORK STATE HAS.

MR. GOTTFRIED: IT WAS A NATIONWIDE -- IT WAS A

NATIONWIDE SAMPLE.

MR. DURSO: RIGHT, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY

TOOK THOSE NATIONWIDE SAMPLES FROM. IT COULD'VE BEEN THREE STATES THAT

HAVE VERY, VERY LAX REGULATIONS --

MR. GOTTFRIED: NO. THEY --

MR. DURSO: -- FOR THEIR HOSPICE FACILITIES.

MR. GOTTFRIED: NO, THEY COULD NOT HAVE BEEN.

THEY COULD NOT HAVE BEEN BECAUSE THEN THEY COULDN'T HAVE PUBLISHED A

PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL ARTICLE IN A JOURNAL AS PROMINENT AS JAMA

PURPORTING -- SAYING THAT THEY WERE REPORTING ON NATIONAL DATA. THAT

WOULD BE COMPLETELY CONTRADICTORY TO EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT THE

NATIONAL STUDIES THAT ARE PUBLISHED IN JAMA. YOU'RE MAKING THIS STUFF

UP.

MR. DURSO: NO, NO. I'M NOT MAKING ANYTHING UP.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ACTUALLY, SIR, I WAS JUST ASKING, QUITE SIMPLY, DO WE KNOW WHERE THEY

TOOK THEIR INFORMATION FROM? AND THE REASON WHY I ASK IT IS THIS: WE

HAVE TWO FOR-PROFIT NURSING HOMES WITHIN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. YOU

BEING THE CHAIR ON HEALTH, HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING TO DISPARAGE THOSE

TWO FOR-PROFIT - EXCUSE ME, HOSPICE CARE FACILITIES, I SAID NURSING

HOMES SO I APOLOGIZE - IN THIS CASE, TWO FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE CARE

FACILITIES DISPARAGING INFORMATION UPON THOSE TWO WITHIN NEW YORK

STATE? HAVE YOU HEARD ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THOSE TWO INDIVIDUAL

ENTITIES?

MR. GOTTFRIED: I HOPE YOU'LL LET ME ANSWER YOUR

QUESTION. NO, I HAVE NOT, AND I AM NOT PROPOSING TO SHUT THEM DOWN.

I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE NEXT 20 THAT MIGHT COME INTO NEW YORK AND

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, ACCORDING TO

JAMA AND ACCORDING TO LOGIC, THEY PROVIDE DANGEROUSLY BAD CARE TO

DYING MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILIES AND I DON'T WANT THAT HAPPENING TO

DYING MEMBERS OF THIS HOUSE OR DYING MEMBERS OF ANY OF OUR FAMILIES

OR DYING MEMBERS OF ANY OF OUR CONSTITUENTS. I WANT TO TRY TO PROTECT

THEM FROM WHAT JAMA AND OTHERS HAVE -- WHAT JAMA HAS FOUND

ABOUT FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES, AND IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT THEY FOUND IT, IT'S

CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT IF YOU'RE AT ALL REALISTIC ABOUT

WHY PEOPLE PROVIDE HEALTH CARE SERVICES ON A FOR-PROFIT BASIS RATHER

THAN NOT-FOR-PROFIT. IT'S NO SURPRISE THAT THIS IS WHAT THEY FOUND, AND I

WANT TO PROTECT THE FAMILIES OF 20 MILLION NEW YORKERS FROM HAVING

THIS HAPPEN TO THEM.

MR. DURSO: NO, AND I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, MR.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

GOTTFRIED. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE THAT DO NEED HOSPICE

CARE ARE GETTING THE CARE THAT THEY NEED FOR NOT ONLY THEM, BUT ALSO

THEIR FAMILIES BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HOSPICE CARE DOES. AS SOMEONE,

MYSELF, WHO HAS HAD TWO FAMILY MEMBERS DIE WITHIN THE PAST YEAR AND

NEITHER ONE COULD GET INTO HOSPICE CARE OVER THE PAST YEAR, THAT'S TWO

FAMILY MEMBERS WITHIN ONE YEAR, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH HOSPICE

CARE PROVIDERS IN THE GREAT STATE OF NEW YORK. I FEEL THAT OBVIOUSLY

SHUTTING MORE DOWN OR REQUIRING THEM NOT TO OPEN OR EXTEND THEIR

FACILITIES IS ONLY HURTING NEW YORKERS; WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

MR. GOTTFRIED: WELL, THERE ARE PROBLEMS IN THE

WAY WE REIMBURSE HOSPICE. HOSPICE PROVIDERS, LIKE ALL PROVIDERS OF

HOME CARE-LIKE SERVICES HAVE HAD A HARD TIME FINDING ADEQUATE STAFF

BECAUSE OF THE FUNDING THAT MEDICARE AND MEDICAID PROVIDE TO THEM IN

ORDER TO PAY THEIR STAFF. BUT ALL OF THOSE PROBLEMS, NONE OF THOSE

PROBLEMS REQUIRE OPENING -- KEEPING THE DOOR OPEN TO FOR-PROFIT. NONE

OF THOSE -- NONE OF THOSE PROBLEMS WILL BE AMELIORATED IF WE HAVE

MORE FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES IN NEW YORK; IN FACT, EVERY ONE OF THOSE

PROBLEMS WILL BE MADE WORSE IF THE ENTITIES THAT ARE IN THE HOSPICE

FIELD ARE FOR-PROFIT BECAUSE THEY WILL HAVE EVEN MORE OF AN INCENTIVE TO

KEEP WAGES AND QUALITY DOWN, AND WE KNOW THAT FROM LOOKING AROUND

THE COUNTRY.

MR. DURSO: WELL, I UNDERSTAND, MR. GOTTFRIED, BUT

I MEAN --

MR. GOTTFRIED: AND, BY THE WAY, I HAVEN'T HEARD

ANYONE SUGGEST WHY KEEPING THE DOOR OPEN TO FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ENTITIES IS A BETTER WAY TO EXPAND THE HOSPICE PROGRAM THAN NOT. THE

WAY TO EXPAND THE HOSPICE PROGRAM IS TO PROVIDE -- ONE OF THE KEY

THINGS IS TO PROVIDE BETTER REIMBURSEMENT SO THEY CAN HIRE MORE

PEOPLE --

MR. DURSO: BUT, MR. GOTTFRIED --

MR. GOTTFRIED: -- AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT IF

THEY'RE FOR-PROFIT.

MR. DURSO: EXCUSE ME, I'M SORRY, SIR. BUT YOU

BASICALLY STATED THAT -- YOU JUST STATED NOW THAT I'M ASSUMING THAT THE

REAL MUSCLE BEHIND THIS BILL ESSENTIALLY IS TO SHUT DOWN FOR-PROFIT

HOSPICE CARE, CORRECT?

MR. GOTTFRIED: NO. THE IMPETUS BEHIND THE BILL

IS TO PREVENT IT FROM COMING INTO NEW YORK AND TAKING OVER. THE BILL,

AS I SAID --

MR. DURSO: WELL, THERE'S A 40 --

MR. GOTTFRIED: EXCUSE ME, LET ME FINISH.

MR. DURSO: MR. GOTTFRIED, YOU CAN EXPLAIN

YOURSELF WITH MORE TIME THAN I HAVE.

MR. GOTTFRIED: THE BILL -- THE BILL DOES NOT SHUT

DOWN THE TWO EXISTING FOR-PROFIT HOSPICES.

MR. DURSO: NO, WE JUST CAN'T EXPAND THEM,

CORRECT?

MR. GOTTFRIED: RIGHT.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED, I

APPRECIATE THE TIME.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. DURSO: UNFORTUNATELY IN NEW YORK STATE, AS

MR. GOTTFRIED SAID AND ACCORDING TO JAMA, WE HAVE 40 NOT-FOR-PROFIT

HOSPICE CARE FACILITIES AND TWO FOR-PROFIT. WITH NO INFORMATION, PROOF

OR ANYTHING OF THE SUCH THAT THE TWO FOR-PROFIT OPERATE AT A LESSER RATE,

PROVIDE LESS CARE THAN THE 40 NOT-FOR-PROFIT. NOW AGAIN, AS I STATED

EARLIER, AS SOMEONE WHO HAD TWO FAMILIES MEMBERS THAT UNFORTUNATELY

DIED THIS PAST YEAR AND NEITHER ONE HAD THE ABILITY TO GET INTO EITHER

TYPE OF HOSPICE CARE AND, AGAIN, THE HOSPICE CARE IS NOT ONLY PROVIDED

FOR THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS SICK AND POSSIBLY DYING, BUT FOR THEIR

FAMILIES. THAT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE SUFFERING AND A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT MAY

HAVE NEEDED HELP THAT COULDN'T GET IT.

MR. GOTTFRIED ALSO SPOKE ABOUT -- EARLIER ABOUT

STAKEHOLDERS AND STOCKHOLDERS WITHIN THESE COMPANIES. NOT EVERY

HOSPICE CARE PROVIDER THAT IS FOR-PROFIT HAS WHAT YOU WOULD CALL

STAKEHOLDERS OR STOCKHOLDERS, SOME OF THEM ARE PRIVATELY-OWNED

BUSINESSES, CORRECT, THEIR ONE STOCKHOLDER COULD BE THE ONE OWNER OF

THE FACILITY. WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT THEY'RE NOT PAYING THEIR PEOPLE

CORRECTLY, BUT AT THIS CURRENT TIME WHEN WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE

TO TAKE CARE OF OUR LOVED ONES THAT ARE SICK, I THINK THAT SHUTTING DOWN,

POSSIBLY SHUTTING DOWN, EXCUSE ME, OR LIMITING THE CARE THAT THEY CAN

PROVIDE FOR NEW YORK STATE RESIDENTS IS A SHAME. SO AGAIN, I'LL BE NOT

SUPPORTING THIS BILL AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MANKTELOW.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOTTFRIED?

MR. GOTTFRIED: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOTTFRIED YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED. I

JUST WANT A LITTLE CLARIFICATION. I THINK MY -- MY FRIEND HERE IN FRONT OF

ME JUST ASKED THE QUESTION, SO THE TWO FOR-PROFIT FACILITIES THAT ARE IN

NEW YORK STATE RIGHT NOW, DO THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO EXPAND?

MR. GOTTFRIED: TODAY, YES; UNDER THE BILL, NO.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO WE HAVE NOTHING AGAINST

THESE TWO FOR-PROFIT FACILITIES OTHER THAN THEY ARE FOR-PROFIT, CORRECT?

MR. GOTTFRIED: I'LL SAY IT FOR A FOURTH TIME, AND IF

ALL 43 MEMBERS OF THE MINORITY WANT TO ASK ME, I'LL SAY IT 39 MORE

TIMES: I DO NOT HAVE DATA ON COMPLAINTS, VIOLATIONS, QUALITY OF CARE, ET

CETERA, OF THOSE TWO ENTITIES.

MR. MANKTELOW: ALL RIGHT. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I

WANT TO APOLOGIZE IF I'VE ASKED YOU THE SAME QUESTION MORE THAN ONCE

TODAY, OR MY COLLEAGUES. I JUST WANTED CLARIFICATION AND I FORGOT WHAT

WAS SAID, SO MY APOLOGIES. I DIDN'T MEAN TO UPSET YOU WITH --

MR. GOTTFRIED: DOESN'T UPSET ME, IT'S ON YOUR

TIME.

MR. MANKTELOW: IT'S ON THE RESIDENTS OF THE

STATE'S TIME, ACTUALLY. SO MY SECOND QUESTION IS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH. YOU'VE CONSTANTLY SAID THAT YOU -- MAYBE

I'M WRONG, BUT HOW MUCH FAITH DO YOU HAVE IN OUR NEW YORK STATE

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH?

MR. GOTTFRIED: HOW MUCH FAITH DO I HAVE IN THE

NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH?

MR. MANKTELOW: YES, SIR.

MR. GOTTFRIED: I THINK THAT DEPENDS ON THE -- ON

EXACTLY WHAT ASPECT OF THEIR WORK YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT. BUT

HISTORICALLY, THROUGH A HALF A DOZEN GOVERNORS AND COMMISSIONERS, AS

CHAIR OF THE HEALTH COMMITTEE I HAVE FOUND A LOT OF THEIR QUALITY

ENFORCEMENT WORK WHEN IT COMES TO INSPECTING HOSPITALS, NURSING

HOMES, ET CETERA, QUESTIONABLE --

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY, SO --

MR. GOTTFRIED: -- IN TERMS OF ITS EXTENT.

MR. MANKTELOW: ITS WHAT, STAKES?

MR. GOTTFRIED: IN TERMS OF ITS EXTENT AND THE --

THE VIGOR OF IT, UNFORTUNATELY.

MR. MANKTELOW: AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE

TALKING ABOUT THE HOSPICE. DO YOU KNOW IN OUR BUDGET THAT WE JUST

PASSED A FEW WEEKS AGO THAT WAS ACTUALLY SEVEN OR EIGHT OR NINE DAYS

LATE, WAS THERE INCREASES IN FUNDING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO

HELP THEM BETTER STAFF THAT AGENCY?

MR. GOTTFRIED: NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO YOU'RE THE -- YOU'RE THE

CHAIR FOR THE HEALTH COMMITTEE AND WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE NOT DOING

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THEIR JOB, SO ISN'T IT OUR JOB AS LEADERS TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE

FUNDING AND THE ABILITY TO HIRE THE PEOPLE TO DO THEIR JOB SO THESE

PLACES LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DO NOT RUN INTO TROUBLE?

MR. GOTTFRIED: WELL, IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO A

DISCUSSION ABOUT THE BUDGET, HISTORICALLY - AND WHEN I SAY HISTORICALLY,

YOU KNOW, I GUESS IT MEANS SOMETHING. HISTORICALLY, BOTH HOUSES OF

THE LEGISLATURE HAVE BEEN LOATH TO PUT MONEY INTO THE BUDGET FOR STATE

OPERATIONS AS OPPOSED TO LOCAL ASSISTANCE, ESSENTIALLY BECAUSE LEGALLY

THE EXECUTIVE DOESN'T HAVE TO SPEND THE MONEY THAT WE PUT IN FOR STATE

OPERATIONS AND, THEREFORE, WE OFTEN REGARD THAT AS A -- AS A FRUITLESS

EFFORT. SO YOU'RE RIGHT, I'M NOT AWARE THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS EVER

TRIED TO PUT MORE MONEY INTO THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT'S ENFORCEMENT

BUDGET FOR THOSE REASONS.

MR. MANKTELOW: AND JUST, I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE

AS LONG AS YOU, I WAS JUST WONDERING, HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN THE

CHAIR OF THE HEALTH COMMITTEE?

MR. GOTTFRIED: THIRTY-FIVE YEARS.

MR. MANKTELOW: THIRTY-FIVE YEARS AND WE HAVE

NOT BEEN ABLE TO CRACK THAT NUT TO GET OVER THAT NEXT HILL TO DEAL WITH

THAT; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. GOTTFRIED: IT'S ONE OF MANY PROBLEMS THAT I

WISH I COULD HAVE SOLVED AND HAVE NOT.

MR. MANKTELOW: ALL RIGHT. WELL, I DEFINITELY

APPRECIATE YOUR DRIVE FOR 35 YEARS. I'M SURE WE'RE MUCH BETTER OFF IN

SOME AREAS OF THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HERE IN NEW YORK STATE BECAUSE

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OF YOUR DILIGENCE AND HARD WORK. SO ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE, WE HAVE

40 NON -- NOT-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE FACILITIES; I ACTUALLY HAVE TWO IN MY --

IN MY HOME COUNTY. AT ANY TIME MOVING FORWARD, WOULD ANY ONE OF

THOSE FACILITIES HAVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE IT FROM A NON-FOR-PROFIT TO A

FOR-PROFIT FACILITY?

MR. GOTTFRIED: I WOULD SUPPOSE THAT TECHNICALLY

ANY OF THEM COULD DO THAT. THERE ARE LEGAL STEPS THAT A NOT-FOR-PROFIT

HAS TO GO THROUGH TO CONVERT TO FOR-PROFIT STATUS, BUT I DON'T THINK

THERE'S ANY LAW THAT WOULD BAR THEM FROM DOING THAT.

MR. MANKTELOW: IF THIS BILL DID PASS HERE AND IN

THE SENATE AND THE GOVERNOR DID SIGN IT, WOULD THAT LIMIT THEM --

WOULD THAT -- WOULD THAT THEN STOP THAT ABILITY TO DO SO?

MR. GOTTFRIED: YES.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO AT THAT POINT, NONE OF THEM

COULD BE NON-FOR-PROFITS?

MR. GOTTFRIED: I'M SORRY, I...

MR. MANKTELOW: I'M SORRY. NONE OF THEM COULD

BE FOR-PROFITS, I APOLOGIZE.

MR. GOTTFRIED: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. HAVE YOU TALKED TO ANY

OF THE NON-FOR-PROFITS IN THE AREA RECENTLY, OR THROUGHOUT THE STATE?

MR. GOTTFRIED: I TALK TO THEM FREQUENTLY. WELL,

AT LEAST I TALK TO THEIR TRADE ASSOCIATION.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. I TALKED TO SOME OF

THEM DIRECTLY, SOME OF THE STAFF, SOME OF THE ONES THAT ACTUALLY RUN THE

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FACILITIES. THEY'RE STRUGGLING. AND YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT INCREASING

THE RATES THAT THEY GET REIMBURSED. A LOT OF THEM ARE STRUGGLING TO THE

POINT WHERE THEY MAY NOT BE AROUND NEXT YEAR BECAUSE IT JUST CANNOT

AFFORD TO RUN. AT THAT POINT IN TIME WHEN WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH

HOSPICE FACILITIES, WHERE DO THE FAMILIES GO?

MR. GOTTFRIED: WELL, I GUESS THE REAL QUESTION IF

IT'S PERTINENT TO THIS BILL -- TO BE PERTINENT TO THIS BILL IS WHETHER KEEPING

THE DOOR OPEN TO FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES IS ANY ANSWER TO THAT PROBLEM. AND

I WOULD SAY IF NOT-FOR-PROFITS ARE LEAVING THE FIELD BECAUSE WE DON'T

PAY THEM ENOUGH AND THEY -- THEY FEEL CONSTRAINED TO LEAVE RATHER THAN

PROVIDE SUBSTANDARD CARE, IMAGINE A WORLD IN WHICH FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES

LOOK AT THE SAME SET OF ECONOMICS AND DECIDE, WELL, I CAN -- I CAN

MAKE IT IN THAT FIELD, ALL I HAVE TO DO IS, AS THE AMERICAN MEDICAL

ASSOCIATION FOUND, ALL I HAVE TO DO IS SKIMP ON CARE. IF NOT-FOR-PROFITS

CAN'T MAKE IT AND PROVIDE QUALITY CARE, WHAT MAKES ANYONE THINK THAT

FOR-PROFITS, WHICH DRAIN OFF A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THEIR REVENUE TO PAY

PROFITS, WHAT MAKES ANYONE THINK THAT FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES ARE GOING TO

DO ANY -- ARE GOING TO DO A DECENT JOB BY OUR DYING CONSTITUENTS IN

PROVIDING CARE FOR THEM. THAT HAS NOT BEEN THE EXPERIENCE

NATIONWIDE. WHY WOULD WE -- WHY WOULD ANYONE FANTASIZE THAT IT

WOULD BE ANY BETTER HERE IN NEW YORK?

MR. MANKTELOW: BECAUSE -- BECAUSE, SIR, WE

ARE NEW YORK AND WE DO -- WE DO PUSH RESPONSIBILITIES TO OUR PEOPLE

THAT NEED HELP FROM NEW YORK STATE, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH HOSPICE

CARE, THROUGH NURSING HOMES, THROUGH HEALTH CARE, THROUGH ANYTHING

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LIKE THAT. WE TAKE PRIDE IN THAT. WE TAKE PRIDE, AS WE HEAR ON THE

FLOOR ALL THE TIME, THAT WE ARE LEADING THE COUNTRY IN SO MANY WAYS BUT,

YET, HERE WE SEEM NOT TO BE LEADING THE COUNTRY.

MR. GOTTFRIED: WELL, WE LEAD THE COUNTRY IN

MANY WAYS. I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT WE LEAD THE COUNTRY IN

THE QUALITY OF OUR QUALITY ENFORCEMENT WHEN IT COMES TO THINGS LIKE

NURSING HOMES, HOME CARE AND HOSPICE, AS I SAID SEVERAL TIMES HERE

TODAY.

MR. MANKTELOW: YES.

MR. GOTTFRIED: AND I THINK ALL OF US HAVE THE

EXPERIENCE IN OUR DISTRICTS OF HEARING COMPLAINTS FROM FAMILIES THAT

ESSENTIALLY ARE EVIDENCE OF WHAT I'VE JUST SAID.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. I -- SIR, I APPRECIATE

YOUR TIME TAKING -- OR LISTENING TO MY QUESTIONS. I DO HAVE SOME

CONCERNS HERE WITH WHAT YOU'RE PUSHING FORWARD.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL IF I MAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MANKTELOW: MR. SPEAKER, AGAIN, AS I TALKED

TO THE SPONSOR JUST A LITTLE WHILE AGO, MY CONCERN HERE IS, AGAIN, WE

HAVE TWO FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE CENTERS HERE IN NEW YORK STATE. WE HAVE

NOTHING TO SHOW THAT THEY'RE NOT DOING EVERYTHING IN A PROPER WAY. WE

HAVE HEARD NOTHING FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH THAT THEY'RE

NOT DOING THINGS IN A PROPER WAY. AGAIN, WE'RE PUSHING OUR FOR-PROFIT

FACILITIES OUT OF NEW YORK STATE, AND ONE OF MY BIGGEST CONCERNS HERE

IS WHAT ABOUT THE BORDERING STATES AROUND NEW YORK STATE? WHAT

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ABOUT THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE ON THOSE BORDERS IN NEW YORK AND OUR

HOSPICE CENTERS ARE CLOSED BECAUSE THEY JUST CAN'T AFFORD TO DO

BUSINESS? OR SECONDLY, THE ONES THAT CAN AFFORD IT ARE FOR-PROFIT WANT

TO EXPAND. WHERE ARE OUR RESIDENTS GOING TO GO? THEY'RE GOING TO

HAVE TO GO OUT-OF-STATE. AND MY CONCERN HERE IS EVEN THOUGH THE

SPONSOR SAYS HE DOESN'T HAVE A WHOLE A LOT OF FAITH IN OUR DEPARTMENT

OF HEALTH IN WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH THE OVERSIGHT OF THESE HOSPICE

CARE FACILITIES, I HAVE A LOT OF FAITH IN THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HERE IN

NEW YORK THAT OUR FACILITIES ARE FAR BETTER THAN MOST STATES, IF NOT ALL

STATES. I THINK OUR HEALTH DEPARTMENT DOES A GREAT JOB. DON'T ALWAYS

AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THEY DO, SIR, BUT I DO AGREE THAT THEY ARE OUT

THERE, THEY'RE ENFORCING WHAT THEY CAN WITH THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT

THEY HAVE.

AND AGAIN, JUST LIKE ON THIS FLOOR, WE REQUIRE, OR WE'RE

ASKING DEC TO DO MANY, MANY THINGS. WE'RE ASKING NOW THE

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, YOU KNOW, THEY NEED TO DO MORE THINGS. WELL,

IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO FUND THEM, HOW ON EARTH CAN WE EVER MAKE THIS

HAPPEN? AND MY CONCERN HERE, LIKE I SAID, IF OUR FOR-PROFITS LEAVE AND

OUR NON-FOR-PROFITS CANNOT MAKE IT, WHERE DO OUR RESIDENTS GO? DO

THEY STAY HOME WITH NO CARE? DO THE FAMILIES NOT HAVE AN OPTION TO

GET SOME -- ONE OF THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS TO A HOSPICE? MY COLLEAGUE

SAID EARLIER, HE HAD TWO DEATHS IN HIS FAMILY THIS YEAR AND THERE WAS

NOT ENOUGH HOSPICE FACILITIES.

SO I UNDERSTAND WHERE THE SPONSOR IS GOING, I

DEFINITELY DO NOT AGREE WITH THE SPONSOR. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH

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SUPPORTING FOR-PROFIT FACILITIES. AGAIN, IF THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING

WRONG WE, AS NEW YORKERS, NEED TO MAKE THEM DO THE THINGS IN THE

RIGHT WAY. AND AGAIN, HERE ON THE ASSEMBLY FLOOR, WE'RE BLAMING THE

FOR-PROFIT FACILITIES THAT WE HAVE. NO INFORMATION ON THEM IN NEW

YORK, WE HAVE TWO OF THEM, AND WE WANT TO STOP THEM FROM GROWING.

WE HAVE AN AGING POPULATION. OUR BABY BOOMERS ARE COMING OF AGE,

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILIES SO THEY CAN TAKE

CARE OF THEIR LOVED ONES WITH -- WITH HOSPICE FACILITIES. I'M SO THANKFUL

FOR THE ONES THAT WE HAVE IN OUR AREAS. THEY DO A GREAT JOB. IS

EVERYTHING PERFECT? ABSOLUTELY NOT, BUT THEY DO A REALLY GREAT JOB AND

FOR THE MOST PART, FAMILIES ARE PRETTY HAPPY.

SO AGAIN, I'M GOING TO ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO

VOTE NO ON THIS BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE'RE ATTACKING FOR-PROFIT BUSINESS IN

NEW YORK, FOR WHAT REASON I HAVE NO IDEA. I'VE HEARD NOTHING ON THIS

FLOOR TODAY THAT SAYS THEY'RE NOT DOING A GOOD JOB. AND FOR THAT REASON,

I'M GOING TO VOTE NO AND ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8472. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY MEMBER

WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

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MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT ARE

CERTAINLY FREE TO VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR OR CALL THE MINORITY LEADER'S

OFFICE. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY COLLEAGUES ARE GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR

OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF US WHO

WOULD LIKE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE

MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE, WE WILL MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY

RECORDED, OR IF THEY'RE IN CHAMBERS THEY CAN PRESS THE VOTE THEMSELVES.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOTTFRIED TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOTTFRIED: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. JUST A

COUPLE OF QUICK OBSERVATIONS. ONE, AFTER ALL OF THE CRAP THAT WE'VE

HEARD, LEGISLATORS AND OTHERS, THROWING AT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT OVER

THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THEIR PROTECTION OF

RESIDENTS OF OUR NURSING HOMES, IT WARMS MY HEART TO HEAR MEMBERS OF

THE MINORITY EXPRESSING NOW SUCH GREAT CONFIDENCE IN OUR HEALTH

DEPARTMENT'S INSPECTION WORK. SECONDLY, JUST TO CLARIFY, THE HOSPICE

AND PALLIATIVE CARE ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK STATE HAS, IN FACT,

MEMOED IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL AND I AM DELIGHTED TO VOTE IN THE

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AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOTTFRIED IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. MANKTELOW TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I

APOLOGIZE FOR WANTING TO SAY THIS, I JUST WANTED TO DO A CLARIFICATION ON

WHAT WAS JUST SAID. WE, THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF

OPINIONS ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR ANY

LEGISLATOR THAT'S ON THIS FLOOR, BUT I CAN SPEAK FOR MYSELF. AS A BUSINESS

OWNER, AS A LEADER OF A TOWN, AS A FATHER, A HUSBAND, AN ARMY VETERAN,

IT ALL GOES BACK TO LEADERSHIP, SIR, AND I THINK A LOT OF THE OPINIONS WERE

NOT OF THE WORKERS OR THE EMPLOYEES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

THEY HAVE DONE AN AWESOME JOB THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC. I'M SAYING I

HAD AN ISSUE WITH THE LEADER OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, I'LL LEAVE IT

AT THAT. SO AGAIN, HATS OFF TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH EMPLOYEES,

THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE ASKED TO DO AND I WOULD SUPPORT THEM 100

PERCENT. SO THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO AGAIN SAY I WILL NOT SUPPORT

THE BILL. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MANKTELOW IN

THE NEGATIVE.

MR. MONTESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. MONTESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FIRST, I WANT TO ECHO THE SENTIMENTS OF THE LAST -- MY

COLLEAGUE WHO LAST SPOKE ABOUT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT. THEY WERE

UNDER A LOT OF PROBLEMS DURING THE NURSING HOME CRISIS WITH

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COVID-19. THEY WERE MANIPULATED BY THE FORMER GOVERNOR AND THEIR

WORK WAS INTERFERED WITH, AND THEIR COMMISSIONER WAS COMPROMISED.

SINCE THEN, THERE'S A NEW COMMISSIONER AND THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT

STAFF DOES THEIR WORK. WE DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH THEM, BUT THEY DO

DO THEIR WORK IN FOLLOWING UP ON COMPLAINTS AND ISSUES THAT GO ON.

AND I'M JUST QUITE TROUBLED BY THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION

BECAUSE I SEE A PATTERN HERE BY THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL TO RUN OUT OF

BUSINESS ANYBODY IN THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY THAT APPEARS TO MAKE A

PROFIT, AND MAKING ALLEGATIONS ABOUT THE FOR-PROFIT FACILITIES, THE

HOSPICE FACILITIES, THAT ARE RENDERING CARE. UNTIL WE GET THE INSURANCE

INDUSTRY BACK WHERE THEY BELONG AND TAKE THEIR INFLUENCE OUT OF THE

CARE THAT PATIENTS RECEIVE IN, FOR NUMERICAL VALUE THAT THEY PROVIDE,

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS PROBLEM ACROSS THE BOARD. BUT I SEE HERE THE

POTENTIAL OF A TAKEOVER AND THE LOBBYING BEING DONE BY THESE

NON-FOR-PROFITS TO TAKE OVER ANYTHING THAT SEEMS TO BE IN COMPETITION

WITH THEM. FOR THESE REASONS, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MONTESANO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, PLEASE

RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MR. BARNWELL IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO NOTED, THANK YOU.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

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(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 30, CALENDAR NO. 420, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01144-A, CALENDAR

NO. 420, PAULIN, TAYLOR, SILLITTI, GALEF, CARROLL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO BALLOTS WHERE THE EXPRESS INTENT OF THE

VOTER IS UNAMBIGUOUS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PAULIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

MR. NORRIS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PAULIN, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. PAULIN: YES, OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. NORRIS: THIS IS ALL LIKE D�J� VU FROM EARLIER IN

THE WEEK. BUT IT'LL BE EASIER, I THINK.

(LAUGHTER)

MS. PAULIN, THIS -- I SEE IT'S A VERY SIMPLE LANGUAGE IN

THE BILL THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE COUNTING OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS, OR

AFFIDAVIT BALLOTS, THE ACTUAL BALLOTS WITH A STRAY MARK OR OTHER

MARKINGS. WHAT IS THE REASON FOR YOU TO BRING THIS FORTH, AND I HAVE

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SOME SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ABOUT DISTINGUISHING MARKS.

MS. PAULIN: SURE. THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, THIS IS

IN LINE WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY GIVE TO THE LOCAL BOARDS,

AND THERE'S INCONSISTENCY AMONG THE LOCAL BOARDS. SO IN WORKING WITH

THE STATE BOARD WE HAVE ALTERED THE LANGUAGE TO REFLECT THEIR INTENT SO

THAT IT WOULD PERHAPS ALLOW LOCAL BOARDS TO HAVE MORE UNIFORMITY.

MR. NORRIS: ALL RIGHT. IF I COULD JUST READ THE --

THE LANGUAGE JUST FOR THE RECORD, THAT'S RIGHT IN THE --

MS. PAULIN: SURE.

MR. NORRIS: -- PROPOSED BILL. IN CASES WHERE THE

EXPRESSED INTENT OF THE VOTER'S UNAMBIGUOUS -- ANY STRAY MARKS OR

WRITING SHALL NOT BE A BASIS FOR VOIDING A BALLOT. THAT'S THE EXACT

LANGUAGE. SO WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS TO SEE WHAT DO YOU FEEL THE TERM

"STRAY MARKS" OR "WRITINGS" MEAN UNDER THIS PROPOSED LANGUAGE?

MS. PAULIN: I'M NOT SURE I'M FOLLOWING IT EXACTLY

WHAT YOU SAID, MAYBE YOU JUST CAN REPEAT IT, I HAVE A LITTLE DISTRACTION.

MR. NORRIS: IT'S OKAY. WELL, ACTUALLY WHAT I WANT

TO KNOW IS AS THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL, WHAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION OF

"STRAY MARK" OR "WRITING?"

MS. PAULIN: WHAT IS MY INTERPRETATION?

MR. NORRIS: YES.

MS. PAULIN: I'M PRESUMING, YOU KNOW, WHAT

YOU'RE ASKING IS COULD THERE BE ANY INDICATION THAT THESE MARKS ARE

IDENTIFIABLE.

MR. NORRIS: CORRECT.

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MS. PAULIN: RIGHT? SO THAT, OF COURSE, IS UP TO THE

BOARD TO INTERPRET, NOT ME, SO I WOULD LEAVE THAT UP TO, YOU KNOW, THE

LOCAL BOARD WHEN THEY'RE OPENING THESE BALLOTS. YOU KNOW, CLEARLY WE

KNOW THAT ABSENTEE BALLOTS ARE ONLY USUALLY OPENED IN A VERY CLOSE RACE

OR -- OR A CONTESTED RACE THAT'S EXTRAORDINARILY CLOSE, REALLY. I MEAN, I

GUESS THE SAME THING. AND SO IF THERE WAS A RED DOT ON MANY OF THEM,

THEN THAT COULD BE AN IDENTIFIABLE MARK BECAUSE YOU SEE IT ON

NUMEROUS BALLOTS, ABSENTEE BALLOTS. AND THEY'RE -- HAPPEN TO BE IN THE

SAME PLACE. THAT COULD BE A MARK THAT MIGHT IDENTIFY OR INDICATE, YOU

KNOW, A -- A --

MR. NORRIS: A CONCERNED EFFORT?

MS. PAULIN: YEAH, A CONCERN. IF, HOWEVER, YOU

SAW, YOU KNOW, A RED DOT ON ONE THEN THAT'S LESS LIKELY OF A CONCERN,

RIGHT? SO I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT UP TO INTERPRETATION WHAT MIGHT BE

CONSIDERED A STRAY MARK VERSUS AN IDENTIFIABLE MARK.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. AND I JUST WANT IT FOR THE

RECORD BECAUSE I THINK YOU MISSPOKE. ALL OF THE BALLOTS WHO ARE LEGAL,

THE ABSENTEES, ARE COUNTED SO FOR THE VOTERS OUT THERE WHO MAY BE

LISTENING, THEY ARE COUNTED, BUT USUALLY JUST A CONTEST OR LEGAL

CHALLENGES OR PEOPLE AT THE -- AT THE TABLE WHEN THEY'RE RECOUNTED ONLY

HAPPEN WHEN THERE'S A CLOSE ELECTION, WOULD YOU AGREE?

MS. PAULIN: OR -- OR AN AUDIT.

MR. NORRIS: OR AN AUDIT, THAT WOULD BE --

MS. PAULIN: RIGHT.

MR. NORRIS: I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR

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ON THAT --

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. NORRIS: -- BECAUSE I KNOW YOU UNDERSTAND

THAT, JUST IN CASE SOMEONE'S LISTENING AT HOME. OKAY. NOW, I CAN

UNDERSTAND LIKE AN INADVERTENT MARK, YOU KNOW, LIKE A WHERE YOU CAN

SEE WITH A PEN IT'S JUST A SWIPE OR A LITTLE DOT, BUT I KNOW SOME OF THE

COURTS HAVE HELD, AS WELL, I BELIEVE IN THE REGULATIONS THE DIFFERENCE

BETWEEN INADVERTENT AND DISTINGUISHING OR IDENTIFIABLE. SO MAYBE I'LL

GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES OF THAT. AND I JUST WANT -- BECAUSE ONE

DAY SOMEONE MAY LOOK AT THIS LEGISLATIVE RECORD AND SEE. SO LIKE IF

THERE WAS A VOTER'S SIGNATURE ON THE ACTUAL BALLOT OR SOMEONE'S INITIALS,

FOR EXAMPLE, OR UNUSUAL MARKING ON IT, ALL OF THOSE WOULD BE

IDENTIFIABLE, MY POINT BEING, AND I JUST WANT TO SEE IF YOU AGREE WITH

THIS OR NOT, IS THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THE SANCTITY OF EVERYONE'S

BALLOT IS THERE, THAT IT'S PRESERVED, THAT YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND AS PEOPLE

ARE LOOKING AT ALL THE BALLOTS AND SAY, YEAH, THAT WAS MINE BECAUSE IT'S

IDENTIFIABLE; WOULD YOU AGREE WITH --

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. NORRIS: -- THAT DIFFERENCE?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. AND THEN IN TERMS OF, LIKE, THE

MARKS, FOR EXAMPLE. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE REPEATED MARKS, BUT A DOT,

HOW -- HOW FAR DO YOU GO WITH THE SIZE OF THE DOT? I MEAN, A 16TH OF

AN INCH, AN 8TH OF AN INCH, A 14TH, A 1/4TH OF AN INCH, THAT'S WHERE IT

BECOMES MORE IDENTIFIABLE AND THAT'S JUST WHY I WANT TO NARROW IT

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DOWN WITH YOU AS THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL JUST TO SEE WHERE DOES THAT

LINE GO?

MS. PAULIN: AGAIN, THAT'S NOT FOR YOU AND I TO

DETERMINE IN ANY GIVEN RACE. IT'S -- IT'S REALLY UP TO THE LOCAL BOARDS

WHO ARE LOOKING AT THAT BALLOT. MOST OFTEN, MOST CONTESTS, EVEN CLOSE

ONES, YOU DON'T EVEN SEE THE BALLOT, YOU KNOW, THE CONTEST IS OVER THE --

THE ENVELOPE, RIGHT, WITH THE NAME. AND THEN ONCE THAT'S SETTLED, THE

BALLOTS GO IN A PILE, YOU DON'T ALWAYS COORDINATE -- SOMETIMES YOU SEE

THE BALLOT BECAUSE THAT'S THE DEMAND OF THE PARTICULAR CANDIDATES, BUT

MOST OFTEN YOU DON'T EVEN SEE THAT. SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THE LOCAL

BOARDS WOULD HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ON THAT STRAY MARK.

AND, YOU KNOW, I -- I CAME ACROSS THIS IRONICALLY ONE

DAY WHEN I WAS ACTUALLY AT THE BOARD AND THERE WAS AN ELDERLY WOMAN

THERE AND SHE WAS TRYING TO FIND THE CIRCLE, YOU KNOW, AND THE -- AND

SHE WAS MAKING SOME STRAY MARKS AND THE WOMAN BEHIND THE COUNTER

WAS TRYING TO HELP HER AND SAY, OH, DON'T DO THAT. YOU KNOW, DON'T DO

THAT, YOUR VOTE MAY NOT COUNT. AND SHE'S, LIKE, STILL LOOKING AND SO I

BECAME VERY INVOLVED OR VERY OBSESSED FROM SEEING THAT, YOU KNOW,

WHETHER THIS POOR WOMAN'S BALLOT WOULD COUNT. AND -- AND LEARNED

THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S A GRAY AREA AND THAT, AGAIN, IT'S AGAIN UP TO

THE LOCAL BOARD TO DECIDE, BUT THAT IT'S INCONSISTENT IN TALKING TO THE

STATE BOARD. AND IN WORKING WITH THEM, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THEY

THOUGHT THIS LANGUAGE WOULD HELP THE -- THE -- THE LOCAL BOARDS MAKE

BETTER DECISIONS SO THAT, INDEED, THIS ELDERLY WOMAN'S VOTE WOULD

COUNT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. NORRIS: I SEE. SO THAT'S WHERE YOU COME UP

WITH THE IDEA --

MS. PAULIN: YEAH, YEAH.

MR. NORRIS: -- YOU TALKED TO THE STATE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS ON THIS. AND SO THE LANGUAGE'S EXPRESSED INTENT OF THE VOTER

IS UNAMBIGUOUS, YOU KNOW, IT'S CLEAR, THE EXPRESSED INTENT. THAT COULD

ALSO BE UP FOR INTERPRETATION, RIGHT, BETWEEN THE TWO ELECTION

COMMISSIONERS WHEN THEY LOOK AT IT, IT MAY NOT BE CLEAR TO ONE, BUT

CLEAR TO THE OTHER ONE; WOULD THAT BE FAIR?

MS. PAULIN: WELL, AGAIN, THERE'S -- THERE'D HAVE TO

BE -- THEY-- THEY WOULD HAVE TO PUT THAT BALLOT ASIDE --

MR. NORRIS: SURE.

MS. PAULIN: -- IF IT WASN'T -- YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T

MAKE A JOINT DECISION.

MR. NORRIS: I UNDERSTAND. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY

MUCH -- THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. PAULIN, FOR ANSWERING MY

QUESTIONS.

ON THE BILL, MR. -- MADAM SPEAKER, I'M SORRY.

ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: ON THE BILL.

MR. NORRIS: GREAT. YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT TO

MENTION AS THE RANKING MEMBER OF THE ELECTION LAW COMMITTEE, I

SERVED AS ELECTION COMMISSIONER TWO YEARS BACK NOW, BUT I DID SEE A

LOT OF BALLOTS OPENED UP IN MY TIME. AND THE COURTS HAVE LOOKED AT

THIS VERY, VERY CAREFULLY AND HAVE OFFERED ADVICE, AS WELL AS THE STATE

BOARD OF ELECTIONS, THROUGH THE REGULATIONS. AND WE HAD TO BE VERY

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

CAREFUL WHEN WE PUT SUCH SPECIFIC LANGUAGE IN THIS STATUTE, BECAUSE I

WAS THINKING AN INADVERTENT MARKING, WE WOULD WANT THAT TO COUNT. I

WANT IT TO COUNT IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE. BUT WHERE DOES IT GO? AND I

MENTIONED, LIKE, THE PARTICULAR IDENTIFYING MARK, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT

BE A 16TH OF AN INCH, AN 8TH OF AN INCH, A FOUR -- HOW FAR -- HOW BIG

DOES THE OVAL OR THE SQUARE HAVE TO BE, OR THE CHECKMARK HAS TO BE.

AND THAT'S MY CONCERN ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR LANGUAGE

BECAUSE IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE WHEN YOU LOOK IT AT. AND THE COURTS HAVE

ALREADY CAREFULLY LOOKED AT IT. OFTENTIMES THERE'S A DISPUTE BETWEEN

THE TWO ELECTIONS COMMISSIONER, A JUDGE WILL REVIEW IT AND LOOK AT

THAT GUIDANCE, AS WELL AS THE REGULATIONS THAT WERE PRESCRIBED UNDER THE

BOARD. AND IT'S -- IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE VOTER'S BALLOT SHOULD BE

SACRED. IT SHOULD BE COMPLETELY NOT KNOWN WHEN THAT BALLOT IS CAST.

AND THAT'S ANOTHER CONCERN OF MINE THAT DEPENDING ON HOW YOU

INTERPRET THAT PARTICULAR MARK AND THE SIZE OF THE MARK, OR THE ACTUAL,

THE WRITING ON THERE WHETHER IT SHOULD BE ON THERE. DOES IT BECOME

IDENTIFIABLE FOR ANYONE TO SAY, YEAH, THOSE ARE MY INITIALS, THAT'S MY

BALLOT, AND THAT'S SIMPLY NOT RIGHT BECAUSE OF THE SANCTITY OF THE BALLOT.

THAT'S MY ONLY POINT.

MS. PAULIN, I DO APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE

HEARD ON THIS. AND FOR THOSE REASONS TODAY, I JUST BELIEVE THAT THIS

PROPOSED BILL GOES A STEP TOO FAR IN THE INTERPRETATION AND, THEREFORE, I'LL

BE VOTING NO AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK

YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THANK YOU, MR.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

NORRIS.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 253-A. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

REPUBLICAN PARTY IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE

REASONS MENTIONED BY MY COLLEAGUE. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT CAN

CERTAINLY VOTE IN FAVOR ON THE FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY

LEADER'S OFFICE. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF OUR

COLLEAGUES WHO WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL

FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE, THEIR VOTE WILL BE PROPERLY

RECORDED. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THANK YOU.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WOULD

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

YOU PLEASE RECORD MR. RA IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS BILL. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: THANK YOU; MR. RA.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, IF WE

COULD NOW TURN OUR ATTENTION TO CALENDAR NO. 429 BY MR. STIRPE,

FOLLOWED BY CALENDAR NO. 448 BY MR. EICHENSTEIN.

ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: PAGE 31, CALENDAR

NO. 429, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05864-C, CALENDAR

NO. 429, STIRPE, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE BANKING LAW, IN

RELATION TO REQUIRING TRANSMITTERS OF MONEY TO PROVIDE A CERTAIN

WARNING TO CONSUMERS.

ACTING SPEAKER SILLITTI: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED.

MR. STIRPE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER -- MADAM

SPEAKER, SORRY. OKAY. THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE A PERSON ENGAGED IN THE

BUSINESS OF RECEIVING MONEY FOR A TRANSMISSION, OR TRANSMITTING MONEY

BY WIRE OR ELECTRONIC TRANSFER WHICH, AT THE REQUEST OF AN INDIVIDUAL

WHO IN PERSON, BY TELEPHONE, OR ELECTRONIC MEANS TRANSMITS FUNDS TO

ANOTHER PERSON, BUSINESS, OR ENTITY TO PROVIDE CLEAR, CONCISE AND

CONSPICUOUS CONSUMER FRAUD WARNING PRIOR TO INITIATING MONEY TRANSFER

TRANSACTION ON ALL FUNDS TRANSFER FORMS USED BY CONSUMERS TO SEND

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MONEY TO AN INDIVIDUAL. ALSO PROVIDING ANNUAL TRAINING FOR AGENTS

INVOLVED WITH FUND TRANSFERS, MONITOR AGENT ACTIVITY RELATED TO

CONSUMER FUND TRANSFERS, AND ESTABLISH A TOLL-FREE NUMBER FOR

CONSUMERS TO CALL TO REPORT FRAUD OR SUSPECTED FRAUD, AND TO PROVIDE

INFORMATION HOW TO STOP A TRANSFER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. STIRPE, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MR. STIRPE: I WILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. STIRPE YIELDS, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. JUST A FEW QUESTIONS TO

CLARIFY THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF THIS LEGISLATION. WHO WOULD HAVE TO

COMPLY WITH THIS? WOULD THIS APPLY TO ANY BANKS THAT ARE DOING WIRE

TRANSFERS, FOR EXAMPLE?

MR. STIRPE: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN?

MR. GOODELL: THIS REQUIREMENT THAT'S IN THIS BILL,

WOULD IT APPLY TO BANKS MAKING WIRE TRANSFERS?

MR. STIRPE: IT APPLIES TO PLACES LIKE MONEYGRAM

AND WESTERN UNION, PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN AGENT WHO SOMEONE WILL SAY,

I WANT TO TRANSFER, YOU KNOW, $1,000 TO WHOEVER. I DON'T BELIEVE THE

BANKS WORK IN THAT WAY.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. SO YOU DON'T ANTICIPATE IT

APPLYING TO BANKS, POST OFFICE, CASHIER CHECKS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE?

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

MR. STIRPE: I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND THIS -- THIS BILL CALLS FOR

A CLEAR, CONCISE AND CONSPICUOUS CONSUMER FRAUD NOTICE. WHAT WOULD

YOU ENVISION THAT NOTICE TO SAY?

MR. STIRPE: WELL, HAVING SEEN SOME OF THE

DOCUMENTS THEY USE AND THE ELECTRONIC FORMATS, THEY'RE BIG, BOLD

PROCLAMATIONS AT THE TOP OF EVERY FORM MAKING SURE -- THAT TELLS THE

PERSON TO MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHO YOU'RE SENDING THIS MONEY TO,

BASICALLY. AND IT ALSO, IN A LOT OF CASES, WILL IDENTIFY CERTAIN TYPES OF

FRAUD THAT ARE WELL KNOWN SO THAT IF SOMEONE ALL OF A SUDDEN SEES THAT

IT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY'VE BEEN ASKED TO TRANSFER MONEY TO, THEY'RE NOT

REAL SURE ABOUT IT, THEY CAN DIAL THE NUMBER THAT'S ON THE FORM AND FIND

OUT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THIS, THIS COULD BE FRAUD,

COULD YOU CHECK INTO IT? SO THEY WOULD DO ALL THAT BEFORE THE MONEY IS

ACTUALLY TRANSFERRED.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, YOU'VE SEEN SUCH A FORM?

MR. STIRPE: YES.

MR. GOODELL: IS THAT FORM USED COMMONLY BY

WESTERN UNION OR MONEYGRAM OR OTHERS?

MR. STIRPE: YES.

MR. GOODELL: SO ARE YOU TELLING ME THEN THAT

THESE ORGANIZATIONS ALREADY DO THIS?

MR. STIRPE: WELL, THEY HAVE -- DIFFERENT PEOPLE

HAVE DIFFERENT FORMS AND THERE'S MORE THAN JUST MONEYGRAM AND

WESTERN UNION. THEY'VE TRIED TO SORT OF GET OUT AHEAD OF IT, BUT THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

SMALLER PLAYERS HAVEN'T. YOU KNOW, IT ALSO INVOLVES IF IT'S IN-PERSON

HAVING SIGNS AT AN ACTUAL STATION WHERE YOU CONDUCT -- REQUEST A MONEY

TRANSFER. YOU KNOW, AND THINGS HAVE CHANGED AND ONE OF THE OTHER

THINGS ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE BILL IS THE TRAINING FOR AGENTS, TRYING TO KEEP

THEM UPDATED ON ALL THE LATEST SCAMS. YOU KNOW, WHEN TIMES WERE

TOUGH LIKE DURING THE GREAT RECESSION OR DURING THE PANDEMIC, THERE

WERE ALL THESE SCAMS ABOUT FREE GOVERNMENT MONEY THAT, YOU KNOW,

WAS GOING TO BE GIVEN OUT AND THEY'D TELL, YOU KNOW, THEY'D GET SOME

INFORMATION FROM YOU ON YOUR BANK ACCOUNTS AND STUFF AND THEY'D STEAL

WHATEVER MONEY YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO GET.

MR. GOODELL: I -- I SEE THAT THIS CALLS FOR A CIVIL

PENALTY OF $250 FOR THE FIRST VIOLATION, $500 FOR ANY SUBSEQUENT

VIOLATION.

MR. STIRPE: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: WHERE DOES THAT MONEY GO? DOES

IT GO TO THE CONSUMER OR DOES IT GO TO THE STATE OF NEW YORK?

MR. STIRPE: I BELIEVE THAT WOULD GO TO THE STATE OF

NEW YORK.

MR. GOODELL: DOES THIS CREATE A CIVIL REMEDY FOR

THE CONSUMER? IN OTHER WORDS, CAN A CONSUMER COME IN AND SAY, I WAS

DEFRAUDED, YOU DIDN'T TELL ME I WAS BEING DEFRAUDED AND, THEREFORE, SUE

WESTERN UNION, MONEYGRAM OR WHOEVER?

MR. STIRPE: I BELIEVE THE PURPOSE IS TO PREVENT THE

FRAUD FROM HAPPENING SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO REIMBURSE.

MR. GOODELL: OF COURSE. I KNOW THE PURPOSE, MY

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

QUESTION IS, DOES THIS THEN OPEN THE DOOR FOR A CONSUMER TO SUE ANY OF

THESE MONEY TRANSFER STATIONS ON THE GROUNDS THAT THIS STATEMENT

PERHAPS WAS TOO CONCISE OR NOT CONSPICUOUS ENOUGH OR NOT CLEAR

ENOUGH?

MR. STIRPE: THERE'S NOTHING ON THERE, BUT I JUST

WOULD SAY THAT MONEYGRAM PAID $125 MILLION PENALTY IN 2018

BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN GIVEN A FIVE-YEAR PERIOD BY THE FTC TO BEEF UP

THEIR, YOU KNOW, FRAUD PREVENTION AND IT WAS FOUND THAT THEY DIDN'T DO

THAT SO THEY ENDED UP PAYING $125 MILLION FINE.

MR. GOODELL: SO AS YOU MENTIONED, OBVIOUSLY

THE FTC IS ALREADY REGULATING THIS AREA, I ASSUME AFTER THAT FINE WAS

ISSUED MONEYGRAM AND SIMILAR COMPANIES WERE PAYING A LOT MORE

CLOSE ATTENTION --

MR. STIRPE: YEAH.

MR. GOODELL: -- TO THIS ISSUE.

MR. STIRPE: YEAH.

MR. GOODELL: HAS THERE'S BEEN ANY FINES SINCE

2018?

MR. STIRPE: NOT AWARE OF ANY, NO.

MR. GOODELL: IS THERE ANY OBLIGATION THAT THIS

WARNING BE IN ANY LANGUAGE OTHER THAN ENGLISH?

MR. STIRPE: IT MIRRORS THE FTC DISCLOSURE

REQUIREMENTS. I BELIEVE IT IS IN OTHER LANGUAGES, I DON'T KNOW HOW

MANY.

MR. GOODELL: IS THERE ANY SAFE HARBOR LANGUAGE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

WHERE AN ORGANIZATION KNOWS THAT IF THEY USE A CERTAIN LANGUAGE OR A

CERTAIN WARNING, THEY'RE GOING TO BE IN COMPLIANCE? AS YOU KNOW, WE

JUST FINISHED A BILL, FOR EXAMPLE, DEALING WITH NOTARIES, THERE WAS THE

STATUTORY LANGUAGE. EVERY FORM THAT'S FILED WITH THE STATE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS HAS STATUTORY LANGUAGE. IS THERE ANY STATUTORY LANGUAGE IN

THIS BILL THAT WOULD MEET THIS REQUIREMENT?

MR. STIRPE: NO, THERE'S NOTHING SPECIFICALLY IN THE

BILL THAT DETAILS WHAT LANGUAGES.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. STIRPE.

MR. STIRPE: SURE.

MR. GOODELL: I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.

GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: IT'S -- IT'S SO FRUSTRATING FOR ALL OF US

WHEN WE GET A CALL FROM A CONSTITUENT THAT'S BEEN DEFRAUDED. AND

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS IF YOU TALK TO THE CONSTITUENT BEFORE THEY'RE

DEFRAUDED, THEY OBVIOUSLY DON'T REALIZE THEY'RE BEING DEFRAUDED. I

MEAN, THERE'S A REASON WHY THEY FALL FOR THESE SCAMS, AND IT HAPPENS ALL

THE TIME. AND A TYPICAL SCAM MIGHT BE WHERE THEY GET A NOTIFICATION

THAT THEY JUST WON MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN THE LOTTERY IN EUROPE, AND I'VE

ACTUALLY HAD CLIENTS COME TO ME AND SAY, WOW, I JUST WON MILLIONS OF

DOLLARS. I SAID, DID YOU EVER ENTER THAT LOTTERY? WELL, NO, BUT I WON

AND IT'S A MIRACLE. AND THE -- OR THEY'LL -- AND THEN THE SCAM GOES ON

AND SAY ALL YOU'VE GOT TO DO IS OPEN A BANK ACCOUNT, SEND US THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

PROCESSING FEES, RIGHT? OR MAYBE THE SCAM SAYS A LONG LOST RELATIVE

THAT YOU NEVER KNEW EXISTED DIED IN ENGLAND AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO

PROCESS THE ESTATE. OR MAYBE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, A RESIDENT IN NIGERIA

AND HE LEFT AN ESTATE AND WE'RE LAWYERS, AND SO ALL YOU'VE GOT TO DO IS

SEND US SOME MONEY TO HANDLE THE PROCESSING AND THE PAPERWORK AND

THE FILING FEES AND WE'LL SEND YOU A CHECK. AND OF COURSE THEY SEND

THE MONEY AND THEY NEVER GET ANYTHING.

NOW, MOST OF US HAVE SEEN THESE SCAMS AND HEARD

ABOUT THEM AND READ ABOUT THEM ENOUGH SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT

WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GOVERNMENT WHERE WE THINK EVERYTHING IS A FREE

LUNCH, OUTSIDE OF GOVERNMENT THINGS AREN'T FREE, ARE THEY? PEOPLE

AREN'T JUST SENDING YOU MONEY. AND ANYONE WHO ASKS YOU FOR MONEY

FIRST BEFORE THEY SEND YOU MONEY THAT YOU DON'T DESERVE AND NEVER

EARNED AND AREN'T ENTITLED TO, IT'S PROBABLY A SCAM, RIGHT?

SO HERE'S THE PROBLEM. WE GO TO MONEYGRAM AND WE

GO TO WESTERN UNION AND ALL THESE OTHER COMPANIES THAT ARE ALREADY

REGULATED BY THE FTC, WHO ALREADY ARE REQUIRED TO GIVE AS MUCH NOTICE

AS THEY CAN AND WE TELL THEM, TELL THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE SO GULLABLE

THEY THINK THEY SHOULD SEND MONEY TO A STRANGER IN ORDER TO GET MONEY

THEY NEVER EARNED OR DESERVED, TELL THEM THEY MIGHT BE SUBJECT TO A

SCAM. HAVING DEALT WITH REAL CLIENTS WHO ARE ACTUALLY PAYING ME FOR

ADVICE, I CAN TELL YOU, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LISTEN.

SO WHAT DOES THIS BILL DO TO ACTUALLY STOP SCAMS?

WELL, BEYOND WHAT THEY ALREADY DO UNDER THE FEDERAL TRADE

COMMISSION, VERY, VERY LITTLE, ALMOST NOTHING. BUT WHAT IT DOES DO IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ONCE THE PERSON WHO'S SCAMMED FIGURES IT OUT THAT THEY DIDN'T REALLY

WIN A LOTTERY IN EUROPE OR HAVE A LONG LOST RELATIVE WHO IS RICH AND JUST

WANTED TO SEND THEM MONEY, ONCE THEY FIGURE IT OUT, THEY'RE UPSET.

AND THEY COME TO OUR OFFICES, RIGHT, AND WITH THIS LAW THEY'LL GO TO

WESTERN UNION OR MONEYGRAM AND SAY, HOW COME YOU DIDN'T

CONVINCE ME NOT TO SEND THIS MONEY? AND UNFORTUNATELY, I'M AFRAID

WHAT THIS WILL DO IS IT WON'T STOP FRAUDULENT SCAMS, BUT WILL INCREASE

LIABILITY TO THESE COMPANIES.

AND I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE, THE

SPONSOR. IT'S PAINFUL TO SEE THESE SCAMS. IT'S FRUSTRATING THAT THEY KEEP

GOING ON. BUT I APPRECIATE HIS COMMENTS THAT THIS IS AN AREA THAT'S

ALREADY WELL REGULATED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND I THINK

ADDITIONAL STATE LEGISLATION WON'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM, BUT IT WILL MAKE

US MORE REGULATED THAN WE WERE YESTERDAY. THANK YOU, AGAIN, TO MY

COLLEAGUE AND THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. MORINELLO.

MR. MORINELLO: OH, THANK YOU. IT WOULDN'T --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THERE YOU GO.

MR. MORINELLO: IT WOULDN'T GO ON.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MORINELLO: I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR

FOR BRINGING THIS FORTH ON OLDER CITIZENS MONTH, WHICH IS THE MONTH OF

MAY IN THIS COUNTRY. IT WAS INITIATED BY PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY. IN

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

READING THE BILL, THE IMPRESSION AND THE INTERPRETATION IS THAT THIS IS

REALLY TO PROTECT OLDER CITIZENS FROM THE SCAMS THAT WERE DISCUSSED.

THE MAIN PROBLEM ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES, WHEN I DISCUSSED IT IN CODES,

WAS THE BODEGAS AND THESE STORES THAT JUST SEND MONEY ORDERS, NOT THE

BANKING INSTITUTIONS AND NOT THE REGULATED INSTITUTIONS. AND I FEEL THAT

THIS WILL BE A STEP TOWARDS PROTECTING OLDER CITIZENS. THE CALL IN THE

MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT THAT YOUR GRANDSON IS IN JAIL IN FLORIDA AND YOU

NEED TO GO SEND MONEY TO GET HIM OUT OF JAIL TO SOME UNKNOWN

ADDRESS. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, I WILL BE VOTING YES ON IT AND I

COMMEND THE SPONSOR. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 5864-C. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS; HOWEVER, WE HAVE

SEVERAL WELL-RESPECTED MEMBERS WHO UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE THE

VALUE OF THIS AND WILL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF IT. SO IN GENERAL, THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING NO, BUT CERTAINLY ENCOURAGE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

THOSE WHO SUPPORT THIS BILL TO VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR OR CALL IN THEIR VOTE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

A CONSUMER PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT HELPS PARTICULARLY OUR SENIOR

POPULATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF US WHO WOULD LIKE TO BE

AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S

OFFICE AND THEIR VOTE WILL BE PROPERLY RECORDED. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE LAST TIME THIS

WAS ON THE FLOOR THERE WERE 41 NO VOTES, AND WHEN IT WENT THROUGH

COMMITTEE THE REPUBLICANS WERE GENERALLY NEGATIVE IN ALL THE

COMMITTEES. AND THEN IT WENT THROUGH ONE OF THE COMMITTEES TWICE

AND THE FIRST TIME THEY WERE ALL NO AND THE SECOND TIME THEY WERE ALL

YES. AND SO IT'S ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE WE'RE WRESTLING WITH

WISDOM OF THIS BILL.

I WILL BE VOTING NO BECAUSE I THINK WE NEED TO

IMPROVE THE BILL A LITTLE BIT, AND I THINK THERE'S EASY WAYS TO DO THAT.

AND THE WAY I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE IMPROVE THE BILL IS PROVIDE A

SAFE HARBOR SO THAT THE SMALL MONEY TRANSFERS KNOW THAT IF THEY USE A

CERTAIN NOTICE THAT'S CLEAR AND CONCISE, THAT THEY'RE COMPLYING WITH THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

LAW. AND WITHOUT THAT TYPE OF GUIDANCE, WITHOUT A SAFE HARBOR, WE SET

UP INNOCENT, SMALL ENTITIES THAT ENGAGE IN THIS TYPE OF BUSINESS FOR

POTENTIAL LIABILITY.

AND SO I LIKE AND I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S OBJECTIVE.

I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS FROM MY COLLEAGUES. I WOULD LIKE

TO SEE THE BILL IMPROVED A LITTLE BIT BY PROVIDING A LITTLE BIT MORE

BALANCE IN TERMS OF PROTECTING THOSE WHO ARE ENGAGED IN THIS BUSINESS

BY GIVING AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE MEAN BY "CLEAR AND CONCISE"

BECAUSE, AS WE ALL KNOW, THE MORE CONCISE FOR SOME PEOPLE, THE LESS

CLEAR AND WE NEED TO -- WE NEED TO HAVE THAT BALANCE SO THAT IT'S

ACTUALLY FAIR TO OUR BUSINESSES WHILE STILL PROTECTING OUR CONSUMERS. SO

I -- I WOULD LOOK FORWARD TO A NEW VERSION AT WHICH TIME I'D BE HAPPY

TO SUPPORT IT, BUT THE CURRENT VERSION I CAN'T. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. STIRPE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. STIRPE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. TO PUT MY

COLLEAGUE'S MIND AT EASE A LITTLE BIT, IT DOES MORE THAN JUST A LITTLE BIT OF

PREVENTING FRAUD. PROVIDING THE ANNUAL TRAINING FOR AGENTS INVOLVED

WITH FUNDS TRANSFERS I THINK WILL GO A LONG WAY, ESPECIALLY THOSE SMALL

MONEY TRANSFER OPERATIONS. AND SECONDLY, MONITORING AGENT ACTIVITY

RELATING TO CONSUMER FRAUD TRANSFERS. A LOT OF THE BIGGEST SCAMS AND

BIGGEST FRAUDS ARE HAPPENING WHEN PEOPLE ARE ON THE INSIDE DOING THIS.

SO IT'S OFTEN AN AGENT WHO'S PART OF THE SCHEME. AND BY MONITORING

THEM AND SEEING TRENDS AND STUFF, THEY CAN GO AHEAD AND PREVENT LARGER

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

FRAUDS FROM HAPPENING. SO WITH THAT, I JUST HOPE EVERYONE WOULD FEEL

COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AND I'LL BE VOTING IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. STIRPE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 32, CALENDAR NO. 448, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07256-A, CALENDAR

NO. 433, J. D. RIVERA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW.

(PAUSE)

MY APOLOGIES. ASSEMBLY NO. A08809-B, CALENDAR

NO. 448, EICHENSTEIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN

RELATION TO THE PERCENTAGE OF UNITS TO BE SOLD TO CONVERT CERTAIN REAL

PROPERTY TO COOPERATIVE OR CONDOMINIUM OWNERSHIP IN THE CITY OF NEW

YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8809-B. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL. ANY

MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

PROVIDED.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU

HAVE FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NO HOUSEKEEPING,

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, BUT WE DO HAVE RESOLUTIONS.

WE HAVE A PRIVILEGED RESOLUTION, RESOLUTION NO. 821.

THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 821, MS.

SILLITTI.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION COMMENDING EMMA NADEL

UPON THE OCCASION OF BEING THE FIRST FEMALE ELECTED TO THE OFFICE OF

CAPTAIN OF FLOWER HILL HOSE COMPANY NO. 1, PORT WASHINGTON FIRE

DEPARTMENT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SILLITTI ON THE

RESOLUTION.

PLEASE, MEMBERS, SETTLE DOWN. IT'S ALMOST OVER.

PROCEED, MS. SILLITTI.

MS. SILLITTI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

ALLOWING ME THE PRIVILEGE TO SPEAK ON THIS RESOLUTION. SO MAY 4TH IS

INTERNATIONAL FIREFIGHTERS DAY. IT IS THE TIME WHERE THE WORLD'S

COMMUNITY RECOGNIZES AND HONORS THE HISTORIC SACRIFICES THAT

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

FIREFIGHTERS MAKE TO ENSURE THAT OUR COMMUNITIES ARE SAFE. IT IS ALSO A

DAY IN WHICH CURRENT AND PAST FIREFIGHTERS COULD BE THANKED FOR THEIR

AMAZING CONTRIBUTIONS FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR GREAT STATE.

AND IN THE SPIRIT OF INTERNATIONAL FIREFIGHTERS DAY, AS

WELL AS VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS DAY, I AM HONORED TO RECOGNIZE CAPTAIN

EMMA NADEL WHO WAS BORN AND RAISED IN PORT WASHINGTON, NEW YORK

IN THE DISTRICT I PROUDLY REPRESENT AND IN THE TOWN I CALL HOME. AT THE

YOUNG AGE OF 17, EMMA NADEL DECIDED TO FOLLOW THE STEP -- FOOTSTEPS

OF HER LATE FIRE -- FATHER, FIREFIGHTER JAMES NADEL, AND JOINED THE PORT

WASHINGTON FIRE DEPARTMENT. THROUGHOUT THE LAST SEVEN YEARS, EMMA

QUICKLY ROSE THROUGH THE RANKS, HOLDING EVERY LINE OFFICER POSITION

WITHIN FLOWER HILL HOSE COMPANY OF THE PORT WASHINGTON FIRE

DEPARTMENT. WHEN EMMA FIRST BEGAN WORKING AT FLOWER HILL HOSE

COMPANY, BECOMING CAPTAIN WAS NOT A GOAL OF HERS; HOWEVER, GOALS

CHANGED FOR EMMA WHEN HER FATHER, JAMES, SAID, MY DAUGHTER IS GOING

TO BE CAPTAIN OF HER FIREHOUSE ONE DAY. AND NOW AT THE YOUNG AGE OF

25 YEARS OLD, EMMA NADEL HAS NOT ONLY MADE HISTORY, BUT SHE HAS

MADE HER FATHER'S DREAM COME TRUE AS THIS YEAR, EMMA NADEL WAS

ELECTED AND BECAME THE FIRST FEMALE CAPTAIN OF THE PORT WASHINGTON

FIRE DEPARTMENT. NOT TO BE OUTSHONE BY DAD, THOUGH, EMMA'S MOTHER

ALWAYS TOLD HER SHE COULD ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING. AND WITH THIS MOTTO,

EMMA HOPES TO SERVE AS A ROLE MODEL FOR ALL WOMEN TO CONSIDER

CAREERS IN MALE-DOMINATED FIELDS.

EMMA HAD PLANNED ON JOINING US TODAY HERE ON THE

ASSEMBLY FLOOR, BUT WORK CALLED HER AWAY. SHE IS LISTENING TO US

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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 4, 2022

ONLINE THOUGH RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU, CAPTAIN NADEL, FOR YOUR HEROIC

WORK, YOUR SACRIFICES, AND YOUR FEARLESS DETERMINATION IN YOUR LINE OF

DUTY, AND THANK YOU FOR BEING AN INSPIRATION FOR ALL GIRLS AND WOMEN,

THAT WE CAN ACHIEVE OUR DREAMS IN ANY FIELD IF WE WORK HARD AND NEVER

GIVE UP. WE RECOGNIZE YOU AND HONOR YOUR SACRIFICES AND

ACHIEVEMENTS ON THIS DAY. CONGRATULATIONS, CAPTAIN NADEL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

WE DO HAVE OTHER NUMEROUS RESOLUTIONS, FINE AS THEY

ARE. WE'LL TAKE THEM UP WITH ONE VOTE. ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN

FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 822 AND 823

WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I NOW

MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL 9:30 A.M., THURSDAY,

MAY THE 5TH, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY; 9:30 A.M.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NINE-THIRTY A.M.,

CINCO DE MAYO. LET'S SAY GOOD-BYE.

(WHEREUPON, AT 5:31 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD

ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, MAY 5TH AT 9:30 A.M., THURSDAY BEING A

SESSION DAY.)

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