WEDNESDAY, JUNE 1, 2022                                                                      11:58 A.M.



                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE HOUSE WILL COME

                    TO ORDER.

                                 IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

                    SILENCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

                                 VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

                    OF ALLEGIANCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

                    MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

                                 A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MAY 31ST.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO

                                          1



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MAY THE

                    31ST AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

                    ORDERED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, SIR.  I'D LIKE

                    TO BEGIN WITH A QUOTE TODAY.  THIS ONE IS FROM BOOKER T. WASHINGTON.

                    MOST OF YOU REMEMBER WHO BOOKER T. WAS FROM OUR HISTORY LESSONS.

                    NO MATTER WHERE YOU WENT TO SCHOOL AT YOU LEARNED OF HIS WORK.  BUT

                    THE WORDS THAT HE'S SHARING WITH US TODAY, MR. SPEAKER, IS THAT,

                    EDUCATION IS NOT A THING APART FROM LIFE.  IT'S NOT A SYSTEM NOR A

                    PHILOSOPHY, IT IS THE DIRECT TEACHING OF HOW TO LIVE AND HOW TO WORK.

                    AGAIN, THESE WORDS FROM BOOKER T. WASHINGTON.

                                 COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS, IF

                    YOU CAN JUST GIVE ME A FEW MINUTES I WILL EXPLAIN WHERE WE'RE GOING

                    TODAY.  COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESK A MAIN CALENDAR AND AN

                    A-CALENDAR AS WELL AS A DEBATE LIST.  I MOVE TO ADVANCE THAT

                    A-CALENDAR, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON MRS. PEOPLES-

                    STOKES' MOTION THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES--

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, SIR.  WE'RE

                    GOING TO BEGIN OUR WORK TODAY BY TAKING UP RESOLUTIONS WHICH ARE ON

                    PAGE 3.  AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP ON DEBATE WITH CALENDAR NO.

                    NO. 280 BY MS. ROSENTHAL.  AND IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE DEBATE WITH

                                          2



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    MS. ROSENTHAL WE'RE GOING TO GO STRAIGHT TO CONSENT THE A-CALENDAR,

                    BEGINNING WITH RULES REPORT NO. 15 AS WELL AS THE RESOLUTION THAT'S ON

                    THE A-CALENDAR.  FOLLOWING CONSENT, WE WILL THEN TAKE UP THE

                    FOLLOWING BILLS ON DEBATE WITH CALENDAR NO. 560 BY MS. ROZIC, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 270 BY MS. PHEFFER AMATO, RULES REPORT NO. 313 BY MS.

                    FAHY, RULES REPORT NO. 318 BY MR. BRONSON, RULES REPORT NO. 366 BY

                    MS. CRUZ, RULES REPORT NO. 369, MR. THIELE, RULES REPORT NO. 389,

                    MR. BRAUNSTEIN, RULES REPORT NO. 390, MR. CAHILL, RULES REPORT NO.

                    391 BY MR. ANDERSON.  I'M JUST GOING TO ASK AGAIN FOR COLLEAGUES'

                    PATIENCE.  MUCH LIKE WE DID YESTERDAY WE'VE GOT A VERY LONG DAY BUT

                    WE GOT A LOT OF THINGS DONE.  WE'D LIKE TO DUPLICATE THAT BY GETTING AS

                    MUCH OR MORE COMPLETED TODAY.  SO I WANT TO THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR

                    YOUR COOPERATION AND YOUR PATIENCE AND YOUR ABILITY TO LET COLLEAGUES

                    DEBATE WITHOUT A LOT OF CHATTER IN THE CHAMBERS.  THANK YOU SO MUCH

                    FOR THAT IN ADVANCE.  IF THERE IS GOING TO BE A NEED FOR FURTHER

                    ANNOUNCEMENTS, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL ANNOUNCE IT AT THE APPROPRIATE

                    TIME.  NOW IS A GREAT TIME FOR YOU TO DO HOUSEKEEPING AND/OR

                    INTRODUCTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  NO HOUSEKEEPING,

                    MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.  HOWEVER, WE DO HAVE INTRODUCTIONS.

                                 MS. WILLIAMS FOR THE PURPOSE OF AN INTRODUCTION.

                                 MS. WILLIAMS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK BEFORE TODAY'S BODY TO TODAY'S COLLEAGUES.

                    TODAY WE HAVE SOME SPECIAL GUESTS.  ONE OF THEM IS VERY SPECIAL WHO

                    YOU GUYS MAY KNOW, AND THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NEW MEMBERS.  SO I'D

                                          3



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    LIKE TO WELCOME ON THIS DAY AS WE CELEBRATE OUR CARIBBEAN CULTURE

                    FORMER ASSEMBLYMEMBER DIANA RICHARDSON, WHO IS NOW THE DEPUTY

                    BOROUGH PRESIDENT FOR BROOKLYN.  WE HAVE CONSUL GENERAL FROM

                    TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, MR. ANDRÉ LAVEAU.  WE HAVE CONSUL GENERAL

                    FOR BARBADOS, MACKIE HOLDER.  WE HAVE THE CONSUL GENERAL FOR ST.

                    LUCIA, JEREMIAH HYACINTH.  DOMINICAN REPUBLIC VICE CONSUL IVAN

                    TOLENTINO.  DR. JUDY NEWTON, RETIRED NYPD OFFICER -- SORRY, DETECTIVE.

                    SHARON LONG.  BROOKLYN CHAMBER PRESIDENT RANDY PEERS.  AND FROM

                    BROOKLYN CHAMBER AS WELL, VLADIMIR STERLIN (INAUDIBLE), AND FROM

                    EMBLEM HEALTH WE HAVE ANN MARIE ADAMSON.  AND WE ALSO HAVE

                    SOME GUESTS FROM BROOKLYN BOROUGH HALL.  YOU GUYS CAN ALL STAND.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD LIKE YOU TO WELCOME ALL THE

                    GUESTS TODAY AS WE CELEBRATE CARIBBEAN HISTORY MONTH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MS. WILLIAMS, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU

                    HERE, THIS DISTINGUISHED GROUP, TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY,

                    EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  KNOW THAT WE APPRECIATE THE

                    CULTURES THAT YOU REPRESENT, THE COUNTRIES THAT YOU REPRESENT, AND THAT

                    YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO SPEND THIS DAY WITH US IS A HONOR.  BUT THEN

                    PARTICULARLY FOR OUR FORMER MEMBER, AS WE ALWAYS SAY, ONCE A MEMBER,

                    ALWAYS A MEMBER.  SO YOUR PRIVILEGES HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR LIFE.

                    SO GOOD TO SEE YOU.  HOPE YOU'RE ENJOYING YOUR NEW ROLE IN THE

                    BOROUGH OF BROOKLYN.  BUT TO ALL OF YOU, YOU'RE WELCOME HERE ANY

                    TIME.  THIS IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A PLACE WHERE YOU WILL FIND A

                    WELCOMING HOME.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.  CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL OF

                                          4



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    YOU.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MR. LAWLER FOR THE PURPOSES OF A INTRODUCTION.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  IT IS MY

                    PRIVILEGE TO INTRODUCE TO THIS BODY LORI ALHADEFF, THE PRESIDENT OF

                    MAKE OUR SCHOOLS SAFE, AND HER MOTHER TERRY RABINOWITZ.  THEY ARE

                    HERE FROM PARKLAND, FLORIDA WHERE LORI'S DAUGHTER ALYSSA WAS SHOT

                    EIGHT TIMES IN HER ENGLISH CLASSROOM IN THE HORRIFIC MASSACRE AT

                    MARJORIE STONEMAN DOUGLAS HIGH SCHOOL ON VALENTINE'S DAY 2018.

                    MR. SPEAKER, LORI'S COUSIN JORDAN TURNER AND HIS DAUGHTER JANE WHO

                    LIVE IN ROCKLAND COUNTY, AND THEY HAVE CONNECTED MYSELF AND

                    ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI WITH LORI AND TERRY.  SINCE THAT TRAGIC DAY,

                    LORI AND HER FAMILY HAVE FORMED MAKE OUR SCHOOLS SAFE, A 501(C)(3)

                    NATIONAL NON-PROFIT ORGANIZED -- ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO PROTECTING

                    STUDENTS AND TEACHERS AT SCHOOLS.  THEIR MISSION IS TO EMPOWER

                    STUDENTS AND STAFF TO HELP CREATE AND MAINTAIN A CULTURE OF SAFETY AND

                    VIGILANCE IN A SECURE SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT.  MR. SPEAKER, AS WE SAW JUST

                    LAST WEEK, ANOTHER SENSELESS SCHOOL SHOOTING THAT TOOK THE LIFE OF 19

                    CHILDREN AND TWO TEACHERS, DESTROYING FAMILIES ACROSS UVALDE, TEXAS

                    AND FORCING FAMILIES LIKE THE ALHADEFFS TO RELIVE THE TRAGIC DEATH OF

                    THEIR DAUGHTER.  MR. SPEAKER, THEY ARE HERE TODAY AND WILL BE HERE

                    THROUGH THE WEEK TO DEMAND ACTION, TO PROTECT OUR SCHOOLS AND TO

                    ENSURE THAT THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.  THAT IS WHY THEY ARE TIRELESS

                    ADVOCATES FOR ALYSSA'S LAW, NAMED AFTER HER DAUGHTER, A CRITICAL PIECE

                    OF LEGISLATION THAT ADDRESSES THE ISSUE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT RESPONSE

                                          5



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TIME WHEN A LIFE-THREATENING EMERGENCY OCCURS BECAUSE TIME EQUALS

                    LIFE.  THE LAW, WHICH HAS PASSED THE STATE SENATE AND IS CARRIED BY MR.

                    ZEBROWSKI IN THIS CHAMBER, CALLS FOR THE INSTALLATION OF SILENT PANIC

                    ALARMS THAT ARE DIRECTLY LINKED TO LAW ENFORCEMENT SO IN CASE OF ANY

                    EMERGENCY THEY WILL GET ON THE SCENE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND END

                    THE THREAT AND TRIAGE THE VICTIMS.  MR. SPEAKER, I JOIN THEM IN THEIR

                    URGENCY TO SEE THIS LEGISLATION PASSED AND ENCOURAGE ALL OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES HERE TO DEMAND AN UP OR DOWN VOTE BEFORE WE LEAVE

                    ALBANY THIS WEEK.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, I'D ASK THAT YOU PLEASE WELCOME MS.

                    ALHADEFF AND MS. RABINOWITZ AND EXTEND ALL THE COURTESIES AND

                    PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO THEM, AND MAY WE ALWAYS REMEMBER THEIR

                    BEAUTIFUL DAUGHTER AND GRANDDAUGHTER ALYSSA AND ALL OF THE CHILDREN

                    WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES DUE TO GUN VIOLENCE IN OUR SCHOOLS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. LAWLER, MR. ZEBROWSKI, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE

                    WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  AND WE STAND IN

                    AWE OF THOSE WHO HAVE SUFFERED AND TURNED THAT SUFFERING INTO THE

                    PROCESS OF TRYING TO ENSURE NO ONE ELSE FOLLOWS YOU IN THAT TASK.  AND

                    WE UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT THE WORK THAT YOU DO.  SO YOU HAVE HERE THE

                    PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR AND ALSO THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE PEOPLE OF

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 WE GO TO RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3.  THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1040, RULES

                                          6



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MR. CUSICK.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 1, 2022 AS GLOBAL RUNNING DAY IN THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1041, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. DAVILA.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 1-8, 2022 AS FIBRO -- FIBROADENOMA

                    AWARENESS WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1042, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. SOLAGES.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 13-19, 2022 AS INFANT MENTAL HEALTH

                    AWARENESS WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1043, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MR. ZEBROWSKI.

                                          7



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2022 AS MIGRAINE AND HEADACHE

                    AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1044, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. LUPARDO.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2022 AS DAIRY MONTH IN THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1045, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MRS. BARRETT.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2022 AS FARMERS MARKET APPRECIATION

                    MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1046, RULES

                    -- RULES AT THE REQUEST OF MS. WILLIAMS.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                                          8



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2022 AS CARIBBEAN HERITAGE MONTH IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WILLIAMS ON THE

                    RESOLUTION.

                                 MS. WILLIAMS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK ON THIS RESOLUTION.  AS A PROUD TRINIDAD-

                    AMERICAN WHO ALSO HAS ROOTS FROM VENEZUELA, TODAY I'M PROUD TO

                    STAND BEFORE THIS BODY TO PAY TRIBUTE TO THE CULTURAL HERITAGE OF SO

                    MANY ETHNIC GROUPS WHICH COMPRISE AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE RICHNESS AND

                    DIVERSITY OF THE CARIBBEAN CULTURE AS WE ADOPT JUNE AS CARIBBEAN

                    HERITAGE MONTH.  AND TODAY WE'LL BE SERVING LUNCH IN ROOM 711-A VIA

                    OUR LOCAL RESTAURANT BACK IN BROOKLYN FROM TRINI JAM, AND WE ALSO

                    HAVE CALVIN AND LATOYA, THE SOLE OWNERS THAT'S HERE WITH US.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  HELLO.  THANK YOU

                    TO THE SPEAKER, MAJORITY LEADER, MY COLLEAGUES, THE ASSEMBLYWOMAN

                    JAIME WILLIAMS.  AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, I'M A PROUD CARIBBEAN

                    WOMAN FROM BARBADOS AND JAMAICA WHO REPRESENTS A DISTRICT FILLED

                    WITH THE RICH CULTURE OF OUR PEOPLE.  MANY OF -- AND YOU KNOW I HAVE --

                    I MUST SAY PARDON ME, BIG UP TO MY MENTOR NICK PERRY WHO'S NOT HERE

                    WITH US BUT ALWAYS WITH ME.  MANY OF MY CONSTITUENTS ARE OR COME

                    FROM IMMIGRANT FAMILIES THAT COME TO THE UNITED STATES IN SEARCH OF

                    THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A BETTER LIFE OR THE AMERICAN DREAM, AS WE CALL IT.

                                          9



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    IT IS THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND OPPORTUNITIES THAT GIVE ME THE INSPIRATION TO

                    DO THE WORK THAT WE DO.  LIKE MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES, MY OFFICE

                    SERVES AS A COMMUNITY RESOURCE HUB THAT NOT ONLY CONNECTS PEOPLE TO

                    SERVICES, BUT ALSO LEVERAGE OUR PLATFORM TO ASSIST RESIDENTS TO NAVIGATE

                    THE IMMIGRATION PROCESS SO THAT WE CAN LIVE, WORK AND PROSPER WITHOUT

                    FEAR OF BEING TORN AWAY FROM OUR FAMILIES.  IT IS OUR OBLIGATION AS

                    ELECTED OFFICIALS TO SERVE OUR CONSTITUENTS AND WORK TO BRING

                    COMMUNITIES TOGETHER.  UNFORTUNATELY, MANY OF THE ISSUES THAT PLAGUE

                    MY COMMUNITY CROSS DISTRICT LINES, AND ONLY THROUGH COLLABORATION

                    BETWEEN ELECTED OFFICIALS AND COMMUNITY STAKEHOLDERS WOULD THESE

                    CHALLENGES BE SUFFICIENTLY ADDRESSED.  I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH

                    YOU ALL TO ENSURE THAT WE CREATE A NEW NORMAL FOR OUR PEOPLE WHERE

                    RESOURCES AND OPPORTUNITIES ARE EASILY ACCESSIBLE TO ALL OF OUR

                    CONSTITUENTS.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES ON THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THE RESOLUTION.  I -- I WANT TO

                    CONGRATULATE MY COLLEAGUE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THAT

                    WE DO ASK THE GOVERNOR TO HONOR THE HERITAGE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE

                    CONTRIBUTED SO MUCH TO THIS COUNTRY.  AND, YOU KNOW, WE ARE IN A TIME

                    AND SPACE IN -- IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE THERE ARE MANY FOLKS WHO

                    DON'T THINK IMMIGRANTS HAVE A ROLE HERE, AND THEY -- THEY DON'T

                    UNDERSTAND THAT IF IT WAS NOT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ALEXANDER HAMILTON WE

                                         10



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WOULD NOT EVEN HAVE OUR COUNTRY FOUNDED IN THE WAY THAT IT HAS BEEN.

                    HE WAS FROM THE CARIBBEAN.  AND SO TO -- TO THINK THAT PEOPLE JUST GOT

                    HERE IS NOT ACCURATE.  WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN HERE, CARIBBEANS HAVE ALWAYS

                    BEEN HERE, AFRICANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN HERE AND WE'RE BEING JOINED BY

                    OTHER IMMIGRANTS.  BUT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO HONOR AND KNOW

                    THEIR CULTURE.  BECAUSE WHEN YOU KNOW YOUR CULTURE AND KNOW YOUR

                    SOUL, YOU WILL SUCCEED NO MATTER HOW MANY OBSTACLES ARE PUT IN FRONT

                    OF YOU.

                                 SO, I HONOR MY COLLEAGUE FOR DOING THIS RESOLUTION.  I

                    HONOR ALL HER GUESTS THAT SHE HAS BROUGHT TO CELEBRATE THIS, AND I HOPE

                    THAT I HAVE TIME TO RUN BY 711-A FOR LUNCH.  AGAIN, MR. SPEAKER, I

                    WANT TO CONGRATULATE HER AND THANK HER FOR HER WORK IN THIS AREA.  AND

                    IT'S GREAT TO SEE OUR COLLEAGUE DIANA RICHARDSON BACK, TOO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1047, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. GLICK.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2022 GAY PRIDE MONTH IN THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GLICK ON THE

                    RESOLUTION.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  JUNE IS GAY

                    PRIDE MONTH BECAUSE IN 1969 A GROUP OF FOLKS WHO WERE AT THE

                                         11



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    STONEWALL INN WERE TIRED OF THE HARASSMENT AND THE POLICE RAIDS AND

                    PUSHED BACK AND FOUGHT BACK.  AND THE STONEWALL UPRISING WAS THE

                    BEGINNING OF THE MODERN GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT.  IT IS IN MY DISTRICT.  IT

                    IS NOW A NATIONAL PARK, A HISTORIC SITE.  AND WHILE NEW YORK STATE HAS

                    COME A LONG WAY, IN 2002 WE GUARANTEED BASIC CIVIL RIGHTS FOR LESBIANS

                    AND GAY MEN IN THIS STATE.  THAT WAS 11 YEARS AFTER I BECAME A MEMBER

                    OF THIS BODY.  AND IN 2011, THIS STATE TOOK A MAJOR STEP FORWARD IN

                    LEGALIZING SAME-SEX MARRIAGE.  AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT AS FAR AS WE HAVE

                    COME OVER THIS PERIOD OF TIME, IT SADDENS ME TO SEE THE RHETORIC THAT

                    HARKENS BACK TO A DISGRACEFUL PERIOD WHEN LESBIANS AND GAY MEN AND

                    TRANSGENDER AMERICANS WERE USED AS POLITICAL PAWNS TO INFLAME THE

                    ELECTORATE FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES.  THE GAY AMERICANS DESERVE THE SAME

                    RESPECT THAT EVERYBODY EXPECTS FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES.  WE

                    DESERVE NO LESS.  AND TO HAVE PEOPLE USE THAT NOTION OF GROOMING,

                    RECRUITING, TO HAVE A BILL IN SOME STATES THAT SAY THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN

                    DISCUSS IT AND USE CHILDREN AS THE VEHICLE FOR ANXIETY FOR THEIR PARENTS

                    SHOWS THAT WE ARE NOT AS MATURE A PEOPLE AS WE LIKE TO THINK WE ARE.

                    WHAT DO FIRST- AND SECOND-GRADERS TALK ABOUT OR KINDERGARTNERS?  THEY

                    TALK ABOUT THEIR FAMILIES.  BUT IF YOU HAVE TWO MOMS OR TWO DADS, YOUR

                    TEACHER IS IN DANGER IF YOU MENTION THAT.  SO THERE ARE PARTS OF THIS

                    COUNTRY THAT DEMONIZE WHO WE ARE AND THEN PRETEND TO TALK ABOUT HOW

                    THEY'RE -- EVERYBODY'S GOD'S CHILDREN.  THOSE WORDS SHOULD STICK IN

                    THEIR THROATS.  SO WE ARE HERE TODAY TO CALL ON THE GOVERNOR TO DECLARE

                    JUNE GAY PRIDE MONTH BECAUSE WE ARE PROUD OF WHO WE ARE, WE'RE

                    PROUD OF OUR FAMILIES.  WE'RE PROUD OF THE FACT THAT WE HAVE OVERCOME

                                         12



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    STIGMA, DISCRIMINATION AND VIOLENCE AGAINST US.  WHETHER WE'RE

                    LESBIAN, GAY, TRANSGENDER SHOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE.  WE ARE ALL A PART

                    OF HUMANITY, AND WE ONLY ASK THAT PEOPLE BEHAVE IN THE SAME WAY TO

                    US AS THEY EXPECT US TO BEHAVE TOWARDS THEM.

                                 NOW, MY PARENTS WERE STRAIGHT.  MANY OF OUR PARENTS

                    WERE STRAIGHT.  SO WHERE DID WE COME FROM?  WE ARE JUST WHO WE ARE.

                    WE DON'T HAVE TO GO OUT AND RECRUIT.  NOW I'LL TELL YOU, THERE ARE SOME

                    PEOPLE WE WOULDN'T WANT.  THEY SHOW UP ANYWAY.  WHY?  BECAUSE

                    PEOPLE ARE JUST PEOPLE.  SO, WE'RE HERE TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE

                    ADVANCEMENTS WE'VE MADE.  WE'RE NOT GOING BACK.  THE CLOSET DOOR IS

                    OPEN.  IT'S BEEN TAKEN OFF THE HINGES AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THE RHETORIC

                    THAT PEOPLE USE, BECAUSE ONCE PEOPLE KNOW WHO THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS

                    ARE THEY REJECT THE STEREOTYPES.

                                 SO THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S

                    KIND ATTENTION, AND I HOPE THAT EVERYBODY HAS A VERY HAPPY GAY PRIDE

                    MONTH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. BRONSON.

                                 MR. BRONSON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  IT IS WITH

                    PRIDE THAT I RISE AND STAND IN SUPPORT OF THIS RESOLUTION BROUGHT BY

                    ASSEMBLYMEMBER DEBORAH GLICK, AND I THANK HER FOR HER LEADERSHIP

                    AND THANK HER AND ASSEMBLYMEMBER DANNY O'DONNELL WHOSE

                    SHOULDERS I STAND ON ALONG WITH THOSE SHOULDERS OF MY LATE FRIEND,

                    COUNCIL MEMBER TIM O. MAINS.  THESE FOLKS ARE TRAILBLAZERS WHO IN

                    DIFFICULT TIMES IN OUR HISTORY WERE BRAVE ENOUGH TO STAND UP AND SAY

                                         13



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WHO THEY ARE AND TO LIVE AUTHENTICALLY.  AS THE SPONSOR MENTIONED, WE

                    ARE SEEING MORE AND MORE FOLKS IN OTHER STATES IN PARTICULAR WHO ARE

                    USING OUR COMMUNITY AS A POLITICAL WEDGE.  THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, I LIVE BY AND I LEGISLATE BY A SIMPLE

                    PROPOSITION:  THAT NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE, WHAT

                    YOUR ABILITY, WHERE YOU COME FROM, WHO YOU LOVE OR HOW YOU IDENTIFY,

                    WE ALL HAVE DIGNITY.  AND WITH THAT DIGNITY WE DESERVE FULL EQUALITY,

                    JUSTICE AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED.  HERE IN NEW YORK STATE WE

                    HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF FIGHTING FOR EQUALITY FOR ALL.  AND CERTAINLY THAT

                    HISTORY INCLUDES MY COMMUNITY, THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY.  BUT WE

                    HAVE WORK LEFT TO BE DONE.  THE FIGHT WILL CONTINUE AND WE WILL FOREVER

                    STRUGGLE FOR THAT FULL EQUALITY HERE IN NEW YORK AND ACROSS THIS

                    COUNTRY.  BUT GAY PRIDE MONTH GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THAT

                    HISTORY.  IT GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO CELEBRATE LIVING AUTHENTICALLY.  IT

                    GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHOUT OUT LOUD, I AM GAY, I AM PROUD AND I

                    LOVE WHO I AM.  AND I ONLY ASK OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR SOCIETY TO SEE

                    OUR COMMUNITY WITH THE DIGNITY THAT EACH OF US HAVE INSIDE AND TREAT

                    US WITH THE JUSTICE AND THE FAIRNESS AND THE HUMANITY THAT EVERY

                    PERSON, EVERY PERSON DESERVES.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK YOU

                    ASSEMBLYMEMBER GLICK FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1048, RULES

                                         14



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. REYES.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JULY 25, 2022 AS AFRO-LATINA --

                    AFRO-AMERICAN AND AFRO DIASPORA WOMEN'S DAY [SIC] IN THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1049, RULES

                    AT THE REQUEST OF MS. ROSENTHAL.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2022 AS CYTOMEGALOVIRUS AWARENESS

                    MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

                    THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.

                                 MS. WALSH FOR THE PURPOSES OF A INTRODUCTION.

                                 MS. WALSH:  GOOD MORNING, MR. SPEAKER, AND

                    THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALLOWING ME TO INTERRUPT THE PROCEEDINGS TO

                    INTRODUCE A COUPLE OF SPECIAL GUESTS TO THE CHAMBER TODAY.  I'D LIKE TO

                    INTRODUCE CARTER CUKERSTEIN AND HIS MOTHER AND FATHER ALYSSA AND JOSH

                    CUKERSTEIN WHO ARE HERE IN THE CHAMBER TODAY.  CARTER IS A MEMBER OF

                    THE SHENENDEHOWA VARSITY TRACK AND FIELD TEAM THAT'S LOCATED IN MY

                    DISTRICT IN CLIFTON PARK, NEW YORK.  DURING THIS MOST RECENT INDOOR

                    TRACK AND FIELD SEASON, CARTER WAS RECOGNIZED AMONG THE TOP SPRINTERS

                                         15



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    IN THE UNITED STATES.  DURING THE MILLROSE GAMES TRIALS IN JANUARY HE

                    RAN THE FASTEST 55-METER DASH IN THE COUNTRY AT THIS TIME, POSTING A

                    6.29- SECOND FINISH.  CARTER WOULD THEN GO ON TO BE UNDEFEATED DURING

                    THE SEASON IN THE 55-METER, WINNING THE NEW YORK STATE CHAMPIONSHIP

                    IN 6.28 SECONDS.  CARTER ALSO SET THE NEW YORK STATE ALL-TIME INDOOR

                    55- METER AND 60-METER RECORDS DURING THE OCEAN BREEZE ELITE

                    INVITATIONAL ON STATEN ISLAND.  HE'S NOW A SENIOR AT SHENENDEHOWA.

                    HE HOLDS FIVE ALL-TIME SHENENDEHOWA RECORDS.  AND JUST IN CASE YOU

                    DON'T KNOW, SHENENDEHOWA IS AN ATHLETIC POWERHOUSE.  THEY -- THEY

                    HOLD A LOT OF RECORDS.  SO, TO HOLD FIVE ALL-TIME SHENENDEHOWA RECORDS

                    IS PRETTY BIG, IN THE 55 METER, 60 METER, 4X200 METER, 100 METER AND

                    200 METER DISTANCES, AND HE'S BEEN A PART OF NUMEROUS SUBURBAN

                    COUNCIL AND SECTION 2 CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS FOR THE SCHOOL.  HE'S

                    GRADUATING THIS YEAR.  HE'S GOING TO ATTEND THE UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA,

                    A DIVISION 1 SCHOOL THIS FALL SPRINTING FOR THE SOONERS ON A FULL ATHLETIC

                    SCHOLARSHIP.

                                 AND I ASK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO PLEASE RECOGNIZE

                    CARTER AND HIS PROUD PARENTS ALYSSA AND JOSH AND WELCOME THEM TO

                    THE CHAMBER.  THANK YOU SO MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MS. WALSH, THE SPEAKER ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU HERE TO

                    THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE

                    FLOOR.  WE'RE IN AWE OF THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS YOU HAVE MADE AS A

                    RUNNER, OBVIOUSLY WITH THE SUPPORT OF YOUR PARENTS.  SO IMPORTANT THAT

                    YOU HAVE THAT SUPPORT AS YOU PROCEED IN LIFE.  LOOKING FORWARD TO

                                         16



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PROBABLY SEEING YOU IN THE OLYMPICS IF IT LOOKS GOOD TO ME, AND I WILL

                    BE WATCHING INTENSELY FOR YOU, SIR.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH AND GOOD

                    LUCK ON YOUR BEGINNING CAREER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 PAGE 37, CALENDAR NO. 280, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07926-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 280, L. ROSENTHAL, MEEKS, SIMON, EPSTEIN, ZINERMAN,

                    GALEF, FERNANDEZ, BURGOS, GOTTFRIED, STECK, SEAWRIGHT, NIOU,

                    ZEBROWSKI, ABINANTI, CARROLL, PAULIN, GALLAGHER, DINOWITZ, FAHY,

                    QUART, COLTON, GRIFFIN, HYNDMAN, PRETLOW, BURDICK, O'DONNELL, GLICK.

                    AN ACT TO AMEND THE PENAL LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING SEMIAUTOMATIC

                    PISTOLS SOLD IN THIS STATE BE VERIFIED AS A MICROSTAMPING-ENABLED PISTOL;

                    AND TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE DIVISION

                    OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICES TO CERTIFY THE VIABILITY OF

                    MICROSTAMPING-ENABLED PISTOLS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. ROSENTHAL.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS BILL WOULD AMEND THE PENAL

                    LAW TO REQUIRE THE DIVISION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICES TO EXAMINE

                    THE TECHNOLOGICAL VIABILITY OF MICROSTAMPING-ENABLED PISTOLS, AND IF

                    SUCH INVESTIGATION DEEMS THE TECHNOLOGY VIABLE WOULD REQUIRE ALL

                    SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOLS SOLD IN NEW YORK STATE TO BE MICROSTAMPING-

                    ENABLED.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                         17



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  WELL, THANK YOU, MS. ROSENTHAL.

                    SO THANK YOU FOR THAT EXPLANATION.  BUT WHAT IS MICROSTAMPING REALLY

                    ABOUT?  YOU AS THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL, COULD YOU TELL US WHAT YOU

                    MEAN BY THIS BILL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I CAN EXPLAIN WHAT

                    MICROSTAMPING IS.  IT'S -- IT IS A FORENSIC TECHNOLOGY THAT IMPRINTS A

                    MICROSCOPIC ARRAY OF CHARACTERS ON A CARTRIDGE CASING TO IDENTIFY THE

                    MAKE, MODEL AND SERIAL NUMBER OF THE PISTOL.  SO, EACH FIREARM HAS A

                    UNIQUE CODE ENGRAVED INTO THE GUN'S FIRING PIN WHICH IS THEN STAMPED

                    ONTO EACH CARTRIDGE CASE WHEN THE GUN IS FIRED.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  AND WHAT -- WHAT IS THE PURPOSE,

                    THEN, OF MICROSTAMPING FROM A CRIMINAL JUSTICE PERSPECTIVE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THE PURPOSE IS TO TRACK DOWN

                    THOSE WHO HAVE USED THAT GUN IN -- IN A CRIME.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO THE -- THE ULTIMATE PURPOSE IS TO

                    -- IS TO CATCH CRIMINALS, YOU WOULD SAY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I WOULD SAY THAT IS SO, AND TO,

                    YOU KNOW, HELP THE FAMILIES PUT CLOSURE ON -- ON THE CRIME THAT

                    HAPPENED TO THEM.  IT CAN IMPROVE LAW ENFORCEMENT'S ABILITY TO ADDRESS

                    GUN VIOLENCE, PROVIDE INTELLIGENCE ABOUT MULTIPLE SHOOTINGS CARRIED OUT

                    WITH THE SAME GUN, ALLOW FOR MORE GUN CRIMES TO BE EASILY TRACED, HELP

                    -- HELP IDENTIFY LEADS, SOLVE SHOOTINGS AND BRING CLOSURE TO VICTIMS AND

                                         18



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THEIR FAMILIES.  SO IT HAS A MULTITUDE OF GOOD PURPOSES.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO IN THIS BILL ITSELF THERE'S SOME

                    DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ACTUAL FEASIBILITY OF THE TECHNOLOGY.  THERE'S A

                    PROVISION IN THE BILL THAT IS GOING TO GIVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY TO THE

                    STATE POLICE.  CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE -- WHAT THE STATE POLICE'S ROLE

                    WOULD BE UNDER YOUR BILL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THE STATE POLICE WOULD

                    HAVE TO CERTIFY OR DECLINE TO CERTIFY THAT MICROSTAMPING-ENABLED PISTOLS

                    ARE TECHNOLOGICALLY VIABLE.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO AT THIS POINT WE DO NOT KNOW IF

                    THIS TECHNOLOGY IS VIABLE, AND IN DOING SO IN WRITING THE BILL THE FIRST

                    THING WE MUST DO IS ACTUALLY TASK OUR PREEMINENT LAW ENFORCEMENT

                    ORGANIZATION TO ACTUALLY SEE IF THE TECHNOLOGY WILL WORK?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THERE HAVE BEEN STUDIES

                    THAT SHOW THAT IT ACTUALLY -- IT HAS PROVEN TO BE VIABLE, BUT WE JUST WANT

                    TO MAKE SURE DCJS --

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  WHAT -- WHAT STUDIES ARE YOU

                    REFERRING TO?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I CAN -- HOLD ON A SECOND.  THE

                    COALITION TO STOP GUN VIOLENCE HAS A PAPER, MICROSTAMPING

                    TECHNOLOGY PRECISE AND PROVEN.  I CAN FORWARD YOU THE ARTICLE.  LAST --

                    THIS IS LAST VISITED ON MAY 10TH, 2022.  SO THAT'S THE MOST NOTABLE AND

                    MOST --

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO IT'S A STUDY -- IT'S A --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  -- AND MOST RECENT RESEARCH ON

                                         19



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    MICROSTAMPING --

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THE MOST RECENT RESEARCH BY

                    MOSTLY AN ANTI-GUN ORGANIZATION.  I -- I'LL TAKE THAT FOR WHAT IT IS.  WHAT

                    OTHER STATES HAVE IMPLEMENTED MICROSTAMPING HERE IN THE UNITED

                    STATES?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, CALIFORNIA.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO CALIFORNIA HAS AN ACTIVE

                    MICROSTAMPING PROGRAM AND A LAW THAT'S ON THE BOOKS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THAT ONE HAS A LONG HISTORY

                    INCLUDING AN ATTEMPT BY MANUFACTURERS TO GET AROUND THE LAW, AND THEY

                    WERE NOT -- THEY DID NOT WORK TOGETHER WITH THE STATE GOVERNMENT.  SO

                    THAT -- THAT LAW TALKED ABOUT NEWLY -- NEW MODELS OF SEMIAUTOMATIC

                    GUNS.  AND SO THE MANUFACTURER SAID, WELL, WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO

                    MAKE NEW MODELS.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO THE --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THEY WERE TRYING TO THWART THE

                    INTENT AND THE ABILITY FOR MICROSTAMPING TO PLAY A ROLE IN LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO THE -- THE 2007 CALIFORNIA LAW

                    HAS BEEN A FAILURE IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD CALL

                    IT.  I WOULD CALL IT A FIRST ATTEMPT AND THEY'VE DONE SUBSEQUENT --

                    SUBSEQUENT LEGISLATION.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  AND WHAT -- YOU KNOW, FOR THAT

                    CALIFORNIA LAW IT'S BEEN 15 YEARS.  DOES CALIFORNIA SELL PISTOLS NOW THAT

                                         20



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ONLY HAVE MICROSTAMPS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN

                    CALIFORNIA, IN 2020 THEY PASSED A NEW LAW TO ADDRESS THE OBSTRUCTION

                    CREATED BY THE MANUFACTURERS WHO REFUSED TO PARTICIPATE IN LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT'S EFFORTS TO IDENTIFY CRIMINALS.  AND THEY PASSED A NEW

                    LAW TO ENSURE THAT MORE HANDGUNS CERTIFIED FOR SALE AND MANUFACTURED

                    COME EQUIPPED WITH BASIC LIFESAVING CONSUMER SAFETY FEATURES AS WELL

                    AS MICROSTAMPING MECHANISMS.  SO, BEGINNING ON JULY 1ST OF 2022 THE

                    LAW WILL DIRECT DOJ TO REMOVE THREE OLDER LESS SAFE SEMIAUTOMATIC

                    PISTOL MODELS FROM ITS ROSTERS, ROSTER HANDGUNS CERTIFIED FOR SALE IN

                    CALIFORNIA FOR EVERY NEW CERTIFIED MICROSTAMPING MODEL.  AND

                    EVENTUALLY, SLOWLY BUT SURELY, IT WILL ENSURE THAT MORE COMMERCIALLY-

                    AVAILABLE HANDGUNS BECOME FULLY COMPLIANT WITH CALIFORNIA'S MODERN

                    SAFETY -- GUN SAFETY LAWS OVER TIME.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO -- SO IT HASN'T BEEN IMPLEMENTED

                    AND WE'RE -- WE'RE STILL STRUGGLING WITH THE TECHNOLOGY IN CALIFORNIA.

                    TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ACTUAL TECHNOLOGY ITSELF.  WHO OWNS IT?

                    HOW MANY ACTUAL ORGANIZATIONS OR -- OR CORPORATIONS THAT WORK WITH

                    THESE GUN MANUFACTURERS OWN THIS TECHNOLOGY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, WE KNOW AT LEAST TWO

                    MANUFACTURERS THAT PRODUCE MICROSTAMPING MECHANISMS FOR

                    SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOLS AND WE ALSO ANTICIPATE THAT OTHER COMPANIES WILL

                    FOLLOW.  THE TECHNOLOGY IS NOT PATENTED, AND SO THE BILL ALLOWS -- ALSO

                    ALLOWS TIME FOR THIS TO OCCUR.  BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT EXISTS AND WE

                    PREDICT THAT MORE COMPANIES WILL PARTICIPATE IN THE MICROSTAMP

                                         21



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TECHNOLOGY FIELD.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  BUT -- BUT AT THIS POINT CALIFORNIA

                    DOES NOT HAVE A -- A VALID VERIFIABLE VIABLE MICROSTAMPING TECHNOLOGY

                    THAT'S BEEN IMPLEMENTED AFTER 15 YEARS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THIS IS NEW YORK STATE SO

                    WE DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  OKAY.  WELL, THANK YOU.  I NEED TO

                    MOVE ON TO A DIFFERENT AREA OF THIS PROPOSED LAW.  THERE'S AN UNLAWFUL

                    SALE PROVISION THAT'S IN THE LAW.  DOES THIS AFFECT -- DOES THIS TAKE EFFECT

                    IMMEDIATELY UPON PASSAGE OF THIS LAW IF THE GOVERNOR SIGNS IT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO, IT DOESN'T AND LET ME -- WELL,

                    ASK THE NEXT QUESTION.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  DOES THIS UNLAWFUL SALE PROVISION

                    PROHIBITING THE SALE OF PISTOLS WITHOUT MICROSTAMPING TECHNOLOGY TAKE

                    EFFECT IMMEDIATELY UPON SIGNATURE BY THE GOVERNOR?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO -- NO, IT DOES NOT.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO IT TAKES EFFECT AFTER THE -- THE

                    STATE POLICE'S EVALUATION OF THE TECHNOLOGY, THEIR PROMULGATION OF

                    REGULATIONS, ABOUT FOUR YEARS IS WHAT -- WHAT I THINK THE LAW SAYS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  UP TO FOUR YEARS.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  UP TO FOUR YEARS.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  UP TO FOUR YEARS, RIGHT.  FIFTEEN

                    YEARS IN CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK HAS FOUR YEARS TO IMPLEMENT IT FOR THIS

                    -- THIS PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY.  SO AFTER THAT POINT, THEN, NO PISTOLS IN

                                         22



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NEW YORK WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE SOLD WITHOUT MICROSTAMPING

                    TECHNOLOGIES IF ALL GOES ACCORDING TO YOUR PLAN.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  AND -- AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN

                    FOR THE PISTOLS THAT ARE ALL ALREADY LAWFULLY LICENSED BY PEOPLE IN NEW

                    YORK?  WHAT -- WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THOSE -- THOSE LAW-ABIDING

                    CITIZENS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I MEAN THIS LAW APPLIES TO

                    PISTOLS MANUFACTURED AFTER THIS LAW GOES INTO EFFECT.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  AND HOW MANY PISTOLS ARE LICENSED

                    IN NEW YORK STATE?  HOW MANY LAWFUL GUN OWNERS WILL THIS AFFECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I'M NOT SURE.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  NO -- NO IDEA?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, I HAVE SOME IDEA BUT

                    MAYBE YOU CAN TELL ME.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  WELL, IF WE'RE GOING TO PASS A LAW,

                    IT WOULD BE INCUMBENT TO -- TO KNOW HOW MANY OF OUR CITIZENS THAT THIS

                    ACTUAL LAW IS GOING TO AFFECT, AT LEAST IN MY --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL WE CAN'T -- WE DON'T KNOW

                    BECAUSE IT'S FUTURE PURCHASES.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  RIGHT.  AND -- AND THIS WOULD ONLY

                    AFFECT SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOLS --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  -- IT WOULDN'T AFFECT REVOLVERS --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO.

                                         23



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  -- HISTORICAL OR ANY ANTIQUE

                    FIREARMS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  AND SO, YOU KNOW, KNOWING THAT

                    AND KNOWING HOW MANY PISTOLS ARE ACTUALLY LICENSED IN NEW YORK

                    STATE, HOW WILL THIS ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING WITH STOLEN GUNS THAT ARE USED

                    BY CRIMINALS?  WHAT LAWFUL GUN OWNERS WHO REGISTER THEIR PISTOLS WITH

                    THE STATE TO NOT COMMIT CRIMES BECAUSE THEY'RE -- THEY'RE ACTUALLY --

                    THEIR -- THEIR PURPOSES OF OWNING ARE FOR THE -- THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE

                    SECOND AMENDMENT.  FOR THOSE CRIMINALS WHO CAN SIMPLY FILE OFF THE

                    MICROSTAMPING DEVICE ON THE -- ON THE BREECH OF THE -- OF THE PISTOL OR

                    CHANGE THE FIRING PIN, HOW -- HOW IS THAT GOING TO STOP A CRIMINAL FROM

                    -- FROM EVADING THIS LAW?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, ONE MIGHT ASK THE SAME

                    QUESTION ABOUT EVERY LAW WE PASS THAT CRIMINALS DO NOT ADHERE TO.  THE

                    FACT ABOUT CRIMINALS REMOVING THE MICROSTAMP CODE, THAT WOULD BE

                    PROHIBITED AND IT WOULD BE A CRIME.  BUT CRIMINALS DON'T OBEY THE LAW.

                    SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO OBEY ANY NEW LAWS, EITHER, PERHAPS, BUT WE

                    HOPE THEY WILL.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  SO --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THAT'S WHY WE'RE ALL HERE, TO

                    PASS LAWS THAT PEOPLE WILL OBEY.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  BUT IT -- BUT IT'S YOUR ESTIMATE AS

                    THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL AND BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION THAT CRIMINALS DON'T

                    FOLLOW THE LAW, THAT IT'S -- IT'S A MUCH LESS CRIME TO SAY, LET'S FILE OFF

                                         24



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THIS -- THIS BREECH MARKING AND THEN PUT A FIRING PIN IN -- A DIFFERENT

                    FIRING PIN IN, AND THEN THE GUN BECOMES UNTRACEABLE IN THE COMMISSION

                    OF MORE SERIOUS CRIMES.  SO --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK UP IN THE

                    DICTIONARY "CRIMINAL", CRIMINAL IS SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT FOLLOW THE

                    LAW.  THAT APPLIES TO EVERY LAW WE PASS HERE.  BUT THERE -- THERE ARE

                    PENALTIES, AND THIS GIVES LAW ENFORCEMENT ANOTHER TOOL, WHICH I THINK

                    WE ALL WANT TO GIVE THEM AND THAT THEY WANT TO HAVE BETTER WAYS TO

                    TRACK DOWN WHO -- WHO COMMITTED A CRIME CONNECTED WITH PERHAPS

                    OTHER CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED BY THE SAME INDIVIDUAL.  THIS IS

                    WHAT LAW ENFORCEMENT NEEDS TO CONTINUE IN ITS QUEST TO PROTECT SOCIETY.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  BUT WE'RE GOING TO LET THE STATE

                    POLICE DECIDE WHETHER THE TECHNOLOGY IS VIABLE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU DON'T TRUST THE STATE POLICE?

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  I -- I'M JUST -- I'M ASKING THE

                    QUESTION.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL --

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  IN THIS -- HOW THIS LAW IS WRITTEN --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THE STATE POLICE WILL DECIDE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WE -- DCJS WILL DECIDE IF THE

                    TECHNOLOGY IS VIABLE.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  VERY GOOD.  WELL, THANK YOU FOR

                    THAT.

                                 SO, A FEW FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS REGARDING LAWFUL GUN

                                         25



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OWNERS.  WHAT IS YOUR ESTIMATE OF THE COST, THE ADDITIONAL COST THAT

                    MICROSTAMPING WILL HAVE FOR LAWFUL GUN OWNERS TO BUY NEW FIREARMS

                    GOING FORWARD FOUR YEARS FROM NOW IF THIS LAW IS DEEMED VIABLE BY THE

                    STATE POLICE THROUGH DCJS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  RIGHT.  I MEAN, I'VE HEARD AND

                    I'VE READ ABOUT IT ADDS ABOUT $1.50, IT COULD BE $5 IN COST PER FIREARM.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  HOW MUCH?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT COULD BE $1.50 TO $5 IN COST

                    PER FIREARM.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  PER FIREARM.  SO WHAT ABOUT THE

                    ACTUAL COST FOR MAINTAINING THE DATABASE AND THE ACTUAL SYSTEM ITSELF

                    FOR -- FOR THESE LOOK -- LOOKING AFTER THESE THINGS?  IF WE'RE GOING TO --

                    WE'RE TRYING TO USE THIS TO SOLVE CRIMES.  WE THINK THAT CRIMINALS DON'T

                    -- ARE -- ARE GOING TO EVADE IT BY AVOIDING THE MICROSTAMPING

                    TECHNIQUES.  BUT THE ACTUAL APPLICATION OF THE DATABASE ITSELF, WHO'S

                    GOING TO MAINTAIN THAT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THIS BILL DOES NOT CREATE A

                    NEW DATABASE.  A DATABASE ALREADY EXISTS INTO WHICH THESE -- THESE

                    ALPHANUMERIC CODES CAN BE LOADED.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  AND ABOUT HOW MANY --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO PUN INTENDED.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  AND ABOUT HOW MANY CRIMES PER

                    YEAR INVOLVE HANDGUNS WHERE THIS MICROSTAMPING TECHNIQUE WOULD BE

                    USEFUL TO PEOPLE TRYING TO SOLVE CRIMES?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I MEAN, WE DO KNOW THAT FROM

                                         26



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    2019 TO 2020, GUN HOMICIDES INCREASED 76 PERCENT WHICH IS THE

                    HIGHEST RATE IN 15 YEARS.  AND DATA FROM 2021 FROM CITIES ACROSS THE

                    STATE SUGGEST THAT GUN HOMICIDES REMAIN PERSISTENTLY HIGH.  IN

                    ROCHESTER, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM 2019 TO 2021, SHOOTINGS INCREASED BY

                    143 PERCENT.  THEY DOUBLED IN NEW YORK CITY AND IN BUFFALO, AND IN

                    ALBANY THEY INCREASED BY 83 PERCENT.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

                    ADMITTING THAT CRIME IS OFF THE CHARTS SINCE WE'VE REPEALED MANY OF THE

                    CRIMINAL JUSTICE LAWS.  IN -- IN MY MIND IT WOULD HELP --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  BUT I DIDN'T EXACTLY SAY THAT --

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  -- REMOVE THOSE CRIMINALS FROM THE

                    STREET --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  -- YOU CAN INFER WHAT YOU WANT

                    TO INFER.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THANK YOU.  THERE WAS -- I DIDN'T --

                    I DIDN'T DETECT A NUMBER IN THERE ABOUT HOW MANY CASES THIS IS -- THIS IS

                    ACTUALLY GOING TO HELP US SOLVE AND WHETHER OR NOT THE JUICE IS WORTH

                    THE SQUEEZE HERE.  BUT MY TIME IS RUNNING SHORT.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON -- ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  UNFORTUNATELY, THIS TECHNOLOGY AS A

                    TOOL IN -- IN CRIMINAL JUSTICE MATTERS IS -- IS LARGELY UNACHIEVABLE.  FOR

                    15 YEARS CALIFORNIA HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO MAKE A GO AT IT.  IT'S GOING TO

                    ONLY SIMPLY ADD TO THE COST FOR LAWFUL GUN OWNERS.  AND THAT'S

                    PROBABLY THE REAL PURPOSE OF THIS BILL, IS TO INCREASE THE COST OF GUN

                                         27



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OWNERSHIP FOR THOSE WHO LAWFULLY, PROPERLY UNDER THE SECOND

                    AMENDMENT EXERCISING THEIR RIGHTS HAVE THESE PARTICULAR KIND OF

                    PISTOLS.  THIS IS COMPLETELY UNFEASIBLE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HOW

                    MANY PISTOLS THERE ARE THAT ARE LAWFULLY OWNED, AND THEN GOING

                    FORWARD THIS WILL EFFECTIVELY PRECLUDE THE SALE AFTER WE GO THROUGH THIS

                    CHARADE OF FOUR YEARS OF EVALUATING WHETHER OR NOT THE TECHNOLOGY IS

                    USABLE.  IT'S GOING TO EFFECTIVELY PRECLUDE THE SALE OF PISTOLS IN NEW

                    YORK STATE.  AND IT HAD A CHILLING EFFECT IN CALIFORNIA.  IT'S CERTAINLY

                    GOING TO HAVE THAT EFFECT HERE IN NEW YORK.  AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT

                    WON'T DO ANYTHING TO MAKE OUR SCHOOLS SAFER, WHICH IS I THINK THE

                    PURPOSE OF THIS -- THIS DEBATE THAT'S GOING TO GO ON THIS WEEK AS FAR AS

                    GUN CONTROL IN NEW YORK.

                                 (BUZZER SOUNDS)

                                 AND THIS IS REALLY ABOUT CONTROLLING GUNS.  IT'S A BAD

                    BILL.  IT'S BEEN HERE BEFORE AND WE SHOULD VOTE NO.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. ANGELINO.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  SURELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THIS WILL -- THIS

                                         28



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WON'T BE AS LONG AS I EXPECTED BECAUSE MY LEARNED COLLEAGUE TO MY LEFT

                    ANSWERED MANY -- ASKED MANY OF MY QUESTIONS AND I APPRECIATE YOUR

                    ANSWERS.  SO, I -- I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 2010 CALIFORNIA STARTED THEIR

                    MICROSTAMPING.  IS THAT WHAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR NOTES?

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 IT'S BEEN SOME TIME --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I JUST WANT TO GET THE EXACT --

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  YEAH, IT'S -- IT'S BEEN SOME TIME.

                    SO WE CAN SAY ABOUT A DECADE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEAH, DEFINITELY.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  ARE THERE ANY EXAMPLES FROM

                    CALIFORNIA OF WHERE MICROSTAMPING HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN AN

                    INVESTIGATION AND LED TO A PROSECUTION?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT HASN'T BEEN IMPLEMENTED YET,

                    SO WE DON'T HAVE INFORMATION ON THAT.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  OKAY.  THE -- THE MICROSTAMPING,

                    JUST TO NAME ITSELF, MICRO MEANS TINY.  WILL THE MICROSTAMP ON THE

                    FIREARM BE VISIBLE TO THE NAKED EYE OR IS THIS MICROSCOPE THINGS WE'RE

                    TALKING ABOUT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I MEAN, IT'S MICROSCOPIC, ONE

                    WOULD SAY, TO GET -- TO GET IT ON THE, YOU KNOW, THE CASING.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  AND I -- I DID SOME RESEARCH ON

                    THIS AND I -- THERE'S DIFFERENT PORTIONS OF THE -- THE HANDGUN THAT CAN BE

                    LASER ENGRAVED.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  RIGHT.

                                         29



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  ONE IS THE BREECH, THE OTHER IS THE

                    FIRING PIN.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT'S JUST THE --

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  WHAT DOES YOUR BILL PROPOSE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THE PIN.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THE FIRING PIN.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  OKAY.  THE -- THE FIRING PIN IS A

                    MOVING PART INSIDE THE WEAPON, AND I -- I GUESS WHEN THE FIRE PIN

                    STRIKES THE AMMUNITION, MICROSTAMPED --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  -- IMPRESSION IS LEFT.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  ON THE CASING.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  -- AND THE SPENT SHELL CASING IS

                    EJECTED.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  ON THE CASING, YES.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  RIGHT.  AND LAW ENFORCEMENT IS

                    GOING TO FIND THE SHELL CASING.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  GOT IT.  SO THERE -- THEY'LL BE ABLE

                    TO TIE THE CASING THAT THEY FIND AT THE SCENE, MAYBE THERE'S A GUN LEFT

                    BEHIND, I DON'T KNOW, BUT THEY WILL KNOW WHICH PISTOL FIRED THEM.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES, THEY SHOULD.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  AND THE -- A HANDGUN -- YOU

                    KNOW, I DON'T THINK CRIMINALS GO OUT AND BUY A BRAND-NEW HANDGUN

                                         30



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SPECIFICALLY LOOKING FOR MICROSTAMPING BECAUSE THAT'S THE NEWEST

                    TECHNOLOGY.  THEY -- THEY'LL PROBABLY BE USING OLDER FIREARMS.  ONCE

                    MICROSTAMPING TAKES PLACE AND THAT METAL-ON-METAL CONTACT HAPPENS

                    AND IT HAPPENS DURING AN EXPLOSION, HOW MANY FIRINGS DO THE EXPERTS

                    SAY BEFORE THAT MICROSTAMP WEARS OFF?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, NOT FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

                    THEY'VE CONDUCTED TESTS WHERE THEY FIRED THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF

                    ROUNDS AND THE -- THE TECHNOLOGY STOOD UP VERY WELL.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THERE WAS NO OBLITERATION OR

                    DEGRADATION?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, EVEN IF THERE WAS A

                    LITTLE BIT, THERE WAS ENOUGH THERE TO HELP IDENTIFY WHERE IT CAME FROM.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  WELL, THAT'S AMAZING BECAUSE I -- I

                    READ A STUDY HERE ON MY DESK THAT SAID IT'S OBLITERATED --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO --

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  -- AFTER ABOUT A THOUSAND FIRINGS.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO, NO I -- THAT'S NOT MY

                    INFORMATION.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  OKAY.  I'M SURE WE HAVE BIASED

                    STUDIES THAT WE'RE EACH LOOKING AT, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

                                 AND THIS IS ONLY FOR SEMIAUTOMATIC HANDGUNS.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  CRIMINALS GENERALLY DON'T WANT TO

                    CAUGHT.  WE CAN AGREE THERE, CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.  UNLESS THEY DO.

                                         31



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  WELL, SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT THE

                    BRIGHTEST --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  BUT THAT'S A DEEPER

                    PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE.  YES.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  YES.  BUT THE -- GENERALLY

                    SPEAKING, CRIMINALS WANT TO COMMIT THEIR CRIME AND GET AWAY.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEP.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  DO YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE

                    AN INCREASE IN THE USE OF REVOLVERS THAT DO NOT EJECT THEIR CASINGS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I MEAN, THIS HASN'T HAPPENED YET

                    SO I CAN'T PREDICT THE FUTURE.  BUT IN ANY EVENT, THERE WERE STILL BE

                    SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOLS OUT THERE THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN USE THE

                    MICROSTAMPING TECHNOLOGY TO PURSUE THE PEOPLE WHO COMMITTED

                    CRIMES.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  SO THE NEW TECHNOLOGY IN THE NEW

                    PISTOLS THAT WILL -- CAN ONLY BE PURCHASED LAWFULLY BY A PERMITTED GUN

                    OWNER, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO BE HOLDING THE

                    MICROSTAMPING UNLESS THEY GET STOLEN FROM THE OWNER.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  SO, AGAIN, I -- YOU KNOW,

                    CRIMINALS AREN'T DUMB, THEY DON'T WANT TO GET CAUGHT.  I THINK WE'RE

                    GOING TO SWITCH TO REVOLVERS.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  AND IN MY EXPERIENCE THERE'S

                    MANY MORE REVOLVERS THAN HANDGUNS BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN AROUND

                                         32



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    LONGER.  THE --  I HEARD THE -- I HEARD BOTH.  STATE POLICE AND DCJS IS

                    GOING TO CERTIFY THE VIABILITY OR IS IT -- OR IS THAT WRONG?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  DCJS.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  DCJS.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  OKAY.  I DID HEAR --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  AND -- AND ALSO I JUST WANTED TO

                    COMMENT WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER IS THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE BUYS A

                    GUN LAWFULLY AND ALL THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WON'T COMMIT A CRIME.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.  SO A MICROSTAMPED

                    LAWFULLY-BOUGHT SEMIAUTOMATIC CAN ALSO BE USED IN A CRIME.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  AND THE SAME GOES WITH ANYTHING,

                    ANY LAW THAT WE HAVE, THOUGH.  YOU KNOW, I CAN BUY A NEW --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEAH.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  -- CAR AND BE ARRESTED FOR DRUNK

                    DRIVING.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEAH, BUT YOU WERE -- YOU WERE

                    SAYING ONLY UNLAWFUL --

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  RIGHT.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  -- AND SOME WILL BE LAWFULLY

                    BOUGHT.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  I -- I THINK I ASKED ABOUT THE

                    CALIFORNIA AND I READ, TOO, THAT THEY'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR QUITE A

                    WHILE.

                                         33



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  DO YOU ENVISION THAT WE'RE GOING

                    TO BE MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN CALIFORNIA AT THIS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, WE ALWAYS WANT NEW

                    YORK TO BE MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN ANY OTHER STATE, BUT I THINK THAT WE

                    HAVE LEARNED FROM THEIR EXPERIENCE AND THIS BILL HAS BEEN DRAFTED AND

                    -- AND THOUGHT ABOUT AND CREATED TO NOT MEET SOME OF THE PITFALLS OF THE

                    CALIFORNIA LAW.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  WELL, THE -- THE FIRING PIN IS AN

                    EASILY REMOVED ITEM ON A GUN AND CAN -- FIRING PINS BREAK.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A GUN

                    OWNER HAS A FIRING PIN THAT DOES SNAP UNDER THE EXPLOSION?  WHERE DO

                    THEY GET A NEW FIRING PIN THAT'S BEEN MICROSTAMPED?  AT MY HOME RIGHT

                    NOW I HAVE MORE THAN ONE FIRING PIN FOR A COUPLE OF WEAPONS JUST FOR

                    THAT OCCASION.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEAH.  ONE SEC.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 SO, IF A MICROSTAMPING COMPONENT OF A

                    MICROSTAMPING-ENABLED PISTOL WHEN IT'S DAMAGED OR IN NEED OF

                    REPLACEMENT, THEN THAT CAN HAPPEN.  LAWFULLY, THE -- THE BILL PROVIDES

                    FOR THAT TO BE REPLACED FOR A LEGITIMATE PURPOSE THAT IS ONLY USED FOR

                    THAT PURPOSE.  SO YES, IT COULD BE REPLACED.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  OKAY.  THE -- THE FIRING PIN,

                    AGAIN, IT'S A DELICATE PART, IT'S ONE OF THE SMALLER PARTS, AND IT -- IT LOOKS

                                         34



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    LIKE A NAIL.  IT'S GOT A VERY SMALL --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  SO THE -- THERE'S OTHER METHODS OF

                    MICROSTAMPING.  DID YOU CONSIDER MICROSTAMPING THE BREECH FACE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I THINK WE DECIDED THE -- THE --

                    USING THE PIN WOULD BE THE BEST METHOD.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  OKAY.  AGAIN, I DISAGREE BECAUSE

                    THE FIRING PIN -- IF YOU REALLY WANT THIS TO BE SUCCESSFUL, THE FIRING PIN IS

                    EASILY REPLACED, MODIFIED AND EXCHANGED, WHERE THE BREECH HAS A

                    SERIAL NUMBER ON IT.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  AND IT'S BASICALLY WHERE THE BULLET

                    EXPLODES, AND THAT CAN'T BE REPLACED WITHOUT HAVING ANOTHER SERIALIZED

                    PART.  AND I WAS JUST -- IS IT MORE DIFFICULT TO LASER ENGRAVE THE BREECH?

                    BECAUSE THE FIRING PIN IS THE -- THE WEAK LINK IN THIS.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OKAY.  THE TECHNOLOGY THAT

                    EXISTS RIGHT NOW HAS TO DO WITH THE FIRING PIN.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  OKAY.  WELL, LASER -- LASER

                    ENGRAVING, ANYWHERE YOU CAN SHINE A LIGHT A LASER BEAM CAN GET IN

                    THERE AND ENGRAVE IT.  BUT THE -- I'M JUST -- I GUESS I'M JUST SAYING THAT

                    THE BREECH WOULD BE THE BETTER PLACE TO DO THIS.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I MEAN, THIS BILL TALKS ABOUT THE

                    FIRING PIN AND PERHAPS DOWN THE LINE WE CAN ADD MORE COMPONENTS,

                    TOO, THAT HAVE TO BE GETTING -- YOU KNOW, HAVE TO HAVE THE NUMBER PUT

                    ON THEM.  BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST DOING IT THROUGH THE PIN.

                                         35



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

                    YOU CAN TAKE A BREAK.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  SO, I CONTACTED LAW ENFORCEMENT

                    AGENCIES IN CALIFORNIA AND THE MICROSTAMPING OF SEMI --

                    SEMIAUTOMATIC HANDGUNS IN THEIR STATE HAS BEEN A -- A BOONDOGGLE, WAS

                    THEIR WORD, BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY TEN YEARS AGO WHEN THEY STARTED

                    WASN'T WHAT IT IS TODAY.  BUT THEY'VE HAD ZERO CASES OF ANYBODY IN A

                    DECADE OF BEING CAUGHT FROM THE SCENE OF A CRIME BECAUSE OF A FIRED

                    BULLET AND THE CASING LEFT BEHIND.  THE -- THE DEAL WITH MICROSTAMPING

                    IS IT -- THEIR WORDS WERE THIS IS JUST TO SCARE GUN MANUFACTURERS AWAY

                    FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO DO THE SAME

                    THING IN OUR STATE.  AND THAT'S A VIABLE MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY.  YOU

                    KNOW, WITH HIGH TECHNOLOGY AND ALSO SKILLED CRAFTSMEN TAKING BLOCKS

                    OF METAL AND MAKING IT INTO A USEFUL TOOL FOR HUNTING, SPORT -- SPORTING

                    AND I BELIEVE ALLS WE'RE GOING TO DO HERE IS JUST CREATE ANOTHER LAW THAT

                    WILL MAKE CRIMINALS OUT OF WHO WERE ONCE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.

                                 YOU KNOW, IN THE 1950S AUTOMOBILES WERE A

                    RELATIVELY NEW DEVICE.  THEY'D ONLY BEEN AROUND 25, 30 YEARS.  AND IN

                    THE1950S THE FIRST GENERATION OF CARS WERE BECOMING OLD USED CARS AND

                    YOUNG PEOPLE WERE BUYING THEM.  AND THEY WERE DRIVING THEM WITH

                    RECKLESS ABANDON AND THEY WERE KILLING THEMSELVES IN THOSE CARS.  SO,

                    WE REALIZED THAT IT WAS A PROBLEM WITH THE AUTOMOBILE AND WE STARTED

                    TEACHING CHILDREN IN HIGH SCHOOL DRIVERS EDUCATION.  I TOOK IT AND

                                         36



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    LEARNED A LOT AND I STILL USE SOME OF THOSE TECHNIQUES TO THIS DAY.  IN

                    THE 60S AND 70S WE HAD A LOT OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES.  YOUNG

                    TEENAGE GIRLS WERE FINDING THEMSELVES IN A PREDICAMENT AND I THINK

                    THAT'S WHERE IN '73 THE MONUMENTAL DECISION WAS MADE.  BUT WE ALSO

                    TRIED TO EDUCATE THE YOUNG PEOPLE, BOYS AND GIRLS, ABOUT SEX EDUCATION

                    IN OUR SCHOOLS.  WHEN I WAS GOING TO SCHOOL WE HAD A RIFLE TEAM.  WE

                    HAD A -- A FIRING RANGE ON SCHOOL PROPERTY, AND WE DIDN'T HAVE THE MASS

                    SHOOTINGS.  THE SECOND AMENDMENT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A COUPLE OF

                    HUNDRED YEARS PLUS.  YET, THESE MASS SHOOTINGS ARE SOMETHING THAT IS A

                    PHENOMENON THAT HAS HAPPENED STEADILY IN ABOUT THE LAST 20 YEARS.  SO

                    SOMETHING CHANGED IN THOSE 20 YEARS.  THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A RANDOM

                    SHOOTING HERE OR THERE, BUT THE EPIDEMIC THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT

                    NOW IS SOMETHING NEW.  AND I THINK WE OUGHT TO PICK THE SCAB OFF AND

                    REALIZE THAT THIS IS A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE, NOT AN INANIMATE OBJECT ISSUE.

                    AND IF WE REALLY WANT TO GAIN SOME RESPECT AND EDUCATION IN THIS, WE

                    OUGHT TO START CONSIDERING TEACHING FIREARM SAFETY TO THOSE WHO WANT TO

                    PARTICIPATE IN IT IN A MENTORED ADULT SETTING WITH YOUNG PEOPLE.  I

                    SPONSOR A SKEET TEAM FOR A HIGH SCHOOL IN MY DISTRICT, AND IT IS

                    MARKSMANSHIP, FUN AND SAFETY.  AND THEY STRESS THE SAFETY PART OF IT

                    EVERY MINUTE THAT THEY'RE DOING IT.  IT'S RESPECT FOR THE TOOL IN THEIR

                    HAND.  AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS MICROSTAMPING IS ACTUALLY GOING TO DO

                    ANYTHING.  CALIFORNIA HAS BEEN DOING IT FOR A DECADE NOW AND I WILL

                    PROBABLY BE LONG RETIRED FROM THIS CHAMBER AND IT WILL STILL BE BEING

                    DEBATED.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                         37



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    ANGELINO.

                                 MR. LEMONDES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I'D LIKE TO

                    TAKE THE CONVERSATION IN A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT DIRECTION BASED ON THE

                    TECHNOLOGY READINESS LEVEL OF THIS PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY THAT'S BEING

                    PROPOSED THAT'S THE BASIS FOR THIS ENTIRE BILL.  COULD YOU STATE THE

                    TECHNOLOGY READINESS LEVEL OF THIS TECHNOLOGY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I BELIEVE IT'S -- IT'S READY.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  EVERYTHING I'VE DONE IN MY

                    RESEARCH AND AS WE'VE HEARD FROM MY COLLEAGUES, WE BELIEVE THAT IT IS

                    NOT READY.  THERE ARE GENERALLY NINE TECHNOLOGY READINESS LEVELS WITH

                    LEVEL NINE BEING PROVEN TECHNOLOGY.  SO I THINK THIS LIES SOME --

                    SOMEWHERE BETWEEN ONE AND EIGHT.  ADDITIONALLY, WITH RESPECT TO COST,

                    COULD YOU ADDRESS AGAIN THE -- THE COST THAT THIS WOULD IMPOSE PER

                    WEAPON?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  AS I -- I SAID EARLIER, IT'S

                    COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE, CAN BE MASS PRODUCED FOR A COST OF BETWEEN

                    50 CENTS TO $5 PER FIREARM, ARE THE ESTIMATES I HAVE.

                                         38



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THAT'S INTERESTING.  I HAVE

                    INFORMATION STATING THAT IT COULD RAISE THE COST AS MUCH AS $200 PER

                    PART --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OH NO, I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT

                    NUMBER.  I HAVE SEEN 50 CENTS TO $5.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  SURE.  I -- I UNDERSTAND WE -- WE

                    ARE WORKING OFF OF DIFFERENT INFORMATION.

                                 ADDITIONALLY, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY JOBS THIS COULD

                    IMPACT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IN TERMS OF ADDING JOBS?

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  IN -- IN TERMS OF JOB LOSS.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T THINK IT WOULD RESULT IN

                    ANY JOB LOSS.  I WOULD ASSUME IT WOULD -- IT COULD HELP INCREASE THE

                    NUMBER OF JOBS AVAILABLE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  AGAIN, WE DISAGREE.  THANK YOU

                    FOR YOUR ANSWER.

                                 WITH RESPECT TO CRIME SCENES, COULD YOU -- COULD YOU

                    TELL ME THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF ROUNDS NECESSARY TO BE RECOVERED FROM

                    A CRIME SCENE IN ORDER TO PIECE TOGETHER THE SIGNATURE OF THAT PARTICULAR

                    WEAPON?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I WOULD SAY YOU NEED THE CASING

                    FROM THE GUN THAT WAS -- THAT WAS USED IN THE COMMISSION OF THE CRIME.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  -- HOW MANY CASINGS DO YOU

                                         39



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NEED?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU CAN GET ONE CASING.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  AGAIN, WE HAVE -- WE'RE WORKING

                    OFF OF DIFFERENT INFORMATION.  THE -- THE INFORMATION I HAVE SAYS THAT IN

                    ORDER TO RECOVER THE CODE YOU CAN NEED UP TO TEN ROUNDS OF

                    AMMUNITION.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I HAVE NOT SEEN THAT ANYWHERE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THAT'S THE -- THAT'S THE

                    INFORMATION THAT I HAVE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OKAY.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  AND THE -- DO YOU KNOW HOW

                    MANY -- HOW MANY ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION ARE USED IN THE COMMISSION

                    OF A TYPICAL CRIME WITH A FIREARM, WITH A HANDGUN?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT -- THAT VARIES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  I'M SORRY, I COULDN'T HEAR YOU.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I SAID THAT VARIES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THAT'S OKAY.  THE NUMBER I HAVE

                    IS FOUR.  AND THE POINT IS THAT IF THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF ROUNDS OF

                    AMMUNITION USED IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME IS FOUR, YET YOU MAY

                    NEED AS MANY AS TEN TO PIECE TOGETHER THE CODE ON THE ACTUAL

                    MICROSTAMP, IN MOST CRIMES YOU WON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, YOUR ASSUMPTION IS TEN

                    AND MY FACT IS ONE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  I -- I WOULD DISPUTE THE VALUE OF

                    THE FACT BECAUSE THE FIRING PINS THEMSELVES CAN BE EASILY REMOVED AND

                                         40



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CHANGED.  ANY CRIMINAL THAT -- THAT COMMITTED A CRIME WITH A WEAPON

                    THAT'S MICROSTAMPED COULD EASILY REMOVE THE FIRING PIN, THROW IT AWAY

                    AND -- AND YOU WOULD -- YOU WOULD HAVE QUITE A TIME PIECING THAT

                    WEAPON TO THAT CRIME.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT I HAVE

                    LEARNED THROUGHOUT THIS IS THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT NEEDS MORE TOOLS AND

                    THIS A TOOL THAT THEY WANT AND THAT THEY CAN USE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  SURE.  I -- I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU

                    ON THAT.

                                 ALL RIGHT.  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU.  I THINK THE CART MAY

                    BE BEFORE THE HORSE.  IF WE CAN'T EVEN STATE THE TECHNICAL READINESS LEVEL

                    OF THIS TECHNOLOGY AND -- AND DEMONSTRATE THAT IT IS PROVEN WHEN

                    THERE'S SO MUCH INFORMATION THAT SAYS SOME SOURCES SAY IT'S WORKABLE,

                    OTHERS SAY IT'S UNPROVEN, AS MY COLLEAGUE JUST MENTIONED.  FOR OVER TEN

                    YEARS IN CALIFORNIA IT HASN'T LED TO THE -- TO THE SOLVING OF A SINGLE

                    CRIME.  AND SO, THEREFORE, DUE TO UNPROVEN TECHNICAL -- UNPROVEN

                    TECHNOLOGY AND ITS -- AND ITS LIMITATIONS, THIS DOES NOT IMPACT THE -- THE

                    SOURCE OF ILLEGAL WEAPONS FLOW.  IT WILL ONLY IMPACT LAW-ABIDING

                    CITIZENS.  IF WE REALLY WANT TO REDUCE CRIME FROM WEAPONS, LET'S CLOSE

                    THE SOUTHERN BORDER.  LET'S STOP THE ELICIT FLOW OF WEAPONS THAT ARE

                    COMING INTO OUR COUNTRY EVERY SINGLE DAY, PROBABLY BY THE THOUSANDS,

                    THAT WILL BE USED IN THE HANDS OF TERRORISTS, THAT WILL ACCOMPANY

                    FENTANYL THAT'S KILLING 285 AMERICANS A DAY.  LET'S GO AFTER THAT.  THE

                                         41



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ADDITIONAL CONSIDERABLE COST THAT THIS WILL IMPOSE ON LAW-ABIDING

                    CITIZENS AND THE COST TO STATE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES THAT HAVE TO

                    BUY THE TECHNOLOGY OR LEARN HOW TO -- LEARN HOW TO USE THE TECHNOLOGY

                    AND MAINTAIN THE TECHNOLOGY TO DO THIS, YET THE PERSON WHO COMMITS

                    THE CRIME CAN SIMPLY REMOVE THE FIRING PIN, THROW IT AWAY, REPLACE IT

                    WITH ANOTHER ONE.  AND BY THE WAY, IT TAKES ABOUT TWO TO THREE MINUTES

                    TO REMOVE A FIRING PIN.  THAT DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS.

                                 SO, FOR THOSE REASONS, I HAVE TO VOTE AGAINST THIS.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THANK YOU.  CAN YOU TELL ME

                    HOW THIS BILL WOULD DIFFER FROM WHAT WE HAD SEVERAL YEARS AGO DURING

                    THE PATAKI ADMINISTRATION CALLED COBIS WHERE UP IN MY AREA, THE

                    131ST IN ONTARIO AND SENECA COUNTIES, NEIGHBORS HAD TO TAKE THEIR --

                    THEIR FIREARMS TO BATAVIA FOR A FIRING AND THEN THEY WOULD REGISTER THE

                    CARTRIDGE AND -- AND IT WAS WHAT I SEE IS ALMOST THE SAME IDENTICAL BILL

                    THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE TODAY.  NOW, WE -- WE ENACTED THAT BILL

                                         42



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    DURING -- DURING THE PATAKI ADMINISTRATION, AS DID MARYLAND.  AND

                    OVER 71,000 ROUNDS WERE REGISTERED AND NOT ONE CRIME WAS EVER

                    SOLVED.  CAN YOU TELL ME HOW THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM THE PREVIOUS BILL

                    THAT WE HAD, AND MAYBE WHY FORMER GOVERNOR CUOMO DISBANDED THE

                    PROGRAM AND GOT RID OF IT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL THAT IS WAY BEYOND THE

                    SCOPE OF THIS BILL.  I -- I -- I HAVE NO CLUE WHY THE FORMER GOVERNOR DID

                    MUCH OF ANYTHING IN CERTAIN AREAS.  HOWEVER, THIS BILL WE KNOW WILL

                    HELP LAW ENFORCEMENT FIGHT CRIME AND IDENTIFY CRIMINALS.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE

                    TECHNOLOGY IS IN THIS BILL VERSUS THE LAST LAW THAT WE HAD ON THE BOOKS?

                    HOW DO THEY DIFFER?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE TECHNOLOGY

                    IN THIS BILL, SO I BELIEVE I DESCRIBED IT EARLIER.  I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT

                    ONE, BUT I CAN REPEAT THAT A MICROSTAMPED FIREARM HAS A UNIQUE CODE

                    ENGRAVED INTO THE GUN'S FIRING PIN WHICH IS THEN STAMPED ONTO EACH

                    CARTRIDGE CASE WHEN THE GUN IS FIRED.  SO, LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN MATCH

                    SPENT CARTRIDGE CASINGS TO A SPECIFIC FIREARM IN THE SAME WAY LICENSE

                    PLATES CAN BE USED TO IDENTIFY THE MAKE, THE MODEL AND THE REGISTERED

                    OWNER OF A CAR.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  I -- I

                    UNDERSTAND THAT.

                                 ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS, YOU KNOW, BULLETS AND

                    CARTRIDGE CASES ARE MADE OF DIFFERENT MATERIALS.  AND I'VE BEEN IN THE --

                    IN THE CUTTING TOOL INDUSTRY FOR 35 YEARS AND I'VE BEEN SELLING TO MANY

                                         43



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    FIREARMS MANUFACTURERS AND MACHINE SHOPS THAT PRODUCE THESE PARTS TO

                    PRODUCE THESE -- THESE WEAPONS HERE IN NEW YORK.  THERE'S FIRING

                    IMPRESSIONS.  AND WHAT HAPPENS IS WITH THE -- WITH THE THREE MATERIALS

                    THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE -- SOFT MATERIAL ALLOYS, BRASS, NICKEL-

                    PLATED BRASS AND STEEL.  EACH ONE OF THOSE MATERIALS HAS A DIFFERENT

                    RELATIVE FLEXIBILITY SO THAT WHEN THE FIRING PIN HITS THAT MATERIAL SOME

                    OF IT IS -- WILL CREATE A HALF-WAY DECENT IMAGE.  WHEN YOU GET INTO THE

                    HARDER STEELS, ESPECIALLY AMMUNITION THAT IS BOUGHT OVERSEAS THAT'S

                    BROUGHT TO THE UNITED STATES, PURCHASED HERE, THAT AMMUNITION, THE --

                    THE PRIMER IN THAT AMMUNITION, MUCH OF IT IS MADE OF EXTREMELY HARD

                    STEEL AND IT WON'T MICROSTAMP WITH ANY KIND OF REGULARITY.  AND IN

                    CALIFORNIA, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE STUDY, 50 FIRING -- 50 FIRING CASES

                    FROM THE FEDERAL CARTRIDGE CORPORATION WORKING FOR THE DEPARTMENT,

                    JUST IN THE SAME GUN A MICROSCOPIC EXAMINATION BY EXPERTS IN

                    CALIFORNIA - THIS WAS DONE BY THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE - 38 PERCENT

                    WERE MISSED.  WHEN DIFFERENT CARTRIDGE MAKES WERE ADDED TO THE MIX,

                    ALL FROM THE SAME GUN, 62 PERCENT WERE MISSED.  OBVIOUSLY THIS

                    PRESENTS A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH AN ONLY ONCE-FIRED BULLET (INAUDIBLE)

                    THIS -- THIS TECHNOLOGY.  AND -- AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS IS GOING

                    TO AFFECT SOLVING CASES IN OUR STATE.  MAYBE YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT

                    OPINION.  MAYBE YOU CAN TELL ME HOW THESE HARD STEEL PRIMERS ARE --

                    ARE -- ARE GOING TO NOT BE AFFECTED BY THIS -- BY THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE

                    HAVE TODAY.  BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW IT CANNOT BE AFFECTED.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THAT IS WHY WE LEAVE IT TO

                    DCJS TO CERTIFY OR TO DECLINE TO CERTIFY THAT THE MICROSTAMPING-ENABLED

                                         44



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PISTOLS ARE TECHNOLOGICALLY VIABLE.  WE -- WE LEAVE THAT IN THEIR LEARNED

                    HANDS.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  OKAY.  THANK YOU FOR YOUR

                    ANSWER.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THE LAST QUESTION I HAVE IS, FIRING

                    PINS ARE MADE FROM MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF STEEL.  AND WE DISCOVERED

                    THAT IF YOU CODE A FIRING PIN, THAT CODING IS ANYWHERE FROM 89 TO 95

                    PERCENT ROCKWELL HARDENED.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  SO IF YOU GET A NEW FIRING PIN

                    AND YOU COAT IT, IT WILL LAST MUCH LONGER THAN A STANDARD FIRING PIN.  SO

                    IN COMPETITION SHOOTING, WHICH HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, YOU GET A BROKEN

                    FIRING PIN, WHICH MY COLLEAGUE ALLUDED TO EARLIER IN HIS -- HIS DEBATE.

                    SO, MY QUESTION IS, HOW IS THIS TECHNOLOGY GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE WHEN

                    YOU TAKE THAT FIRING PIN FROM THAT WEAPON AND YOU COAT IT WITH TIN

                    COATING OR CHICKEN COATING OR TITANIUM CARBON NITRATE COATING?  HOW IS

                    THAT GOING TO AFFECT IT, WHICH IS -- WHICH IS A COMMON PRACTICE TODAY TO

                    ENSURE THAT YOUR FIRING PINS LAST MUCH LONGER ON THE LINE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR

                    EXPERTISE IN THAT MATTER.  I -- I BELIEVE THAT DCJS WILL TAKE ALL OF THOSE

                    FACTORS AND OTHERS INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN CONSIDERING THE VIABILITY OF

                    THE TECHNOLOGY.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  OKAY.  MY FINAL QUESTION I GUESS

                    WOULD BE IF I'M AT THE FIRING RANGE IN A COMPETITION AND I BREAK MY

                                         45



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    FIRING PIN, IF I REPLACE THAT FIRING PIN, WHICH I CAN DO WITHIN A MATTER OF

                    MINUTES AT THE FIRING RANGE WITH A STANDARD FIRING PIN THAT DOESN'T HAVE

                    THE MICROSTAMPING TECHNOLOGY IN IT TO FINISH -- TO FINISH MY -- MY

                    COMPETITION, DOES THAT MAKE ME A CRIMINAL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  I CAN DO THAT?  I CAN CHANGE THAT

                    FIRING PIN ON THE LINE, ON THE SPOT, AND CONTINUE IN MY COMPETITION?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  FOR SPORTING PURPOSES IT DOES

                    NOT APPLY.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  WHEN -- WELL, IF IT DOESN'T APPLY

                    FOR SPORTING PURPOSES, THE FIREARMS THAT I BUY ARE STRICTLY FOR SPORTING

                    PURPOSES.  SO THEY'RE -- THEY'RE EXEMPT FROM THIS BILL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  LET ME GET YOU THE EXACT

                    LANGUAGE.  THIS IS RIGHT NEAR THE END OF THE BILL.  IT SAYS, ANY PERSON

                    WHO MODIFIES A MICROSTAMP-ENABLED PISTOL OR MICROSTAMPING

                    COMPONENT WITH THE INTENT TO PREVENT PRODUCTION OF A MICROSTAMP IS

                    FOR A FIRST OFFENSE GUILTY OF A CLASS B MISDEMEANOR, ET CETERA ET CETERA.

                    IT SHALL NOT BE UNLAWFUL TO REPLACE THE MICROSTAMPING COMPONENT OF A

                    MICROSTAMPING-ENABLED PISTOL WHEN THE COMPONENT IS DAMAGED OR IN

                    NEED OF REPLACEMENT WITH ANOTHER VALID MICROSTAMPING COMPONENT FOR

                    THE SAFE USE OF THE FIREARM OR REPLACING SUCH PIN FOR A LEGITIMATE

                    SPORTING PURPOSE THAT IS ONLY USED FOR THAT LEGITIMATE PURPOSE.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  SO I'M -- I'M STILL CONFUSED.  IT

                    SAYS THAT IT HAS TO BE REPLACED WITH A MICROSTAMPED FIRING PIN.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                         46



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  SO WHEN YOU BUY A NEW -- A NEW

                    HANDGUN, ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO ORDER EIGHT OR TEN MORE FIRING

                    PINS FOR THAT PARTICULAR WEAPON SO THAT YOU HAVE THEM ON HAND SO THAT

                    YOU'RE NOT BREAKING THE LAW?  WHEN YOU BREAK A FIRING PIN AT THE RANGE

                    AND YOU HAVE TO REPLACE THAT FIRING PIN, IT'S A MISDEMEANOR, WHICH YOU

                    JUST READ TO ME, IF I USE A STANDARD FIRING PIN, BUT IT'S NOT A

                    MISDEMEANOR IF I USE A MICROSTAMPED FIRING PIN.  HOW DO YOU ACQUIRE

                    THOSE MICROSTAMPED FIRING PINS AND HAVE THOSE EXTRA IN YOUR SHOOTING

                    BAG SO THAT WHEN YOU BREAK YOUR FIRING PIN YOU CAN REPLACE IT LEGALLY

                    AND NOT BE BREAKING THE LAW?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, IF IT -- IF IT DOES

                    BREAK THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO REPLACE IT WITH A MICROSTAMPED-ENABLED

                    FIRING PIN.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  SO HOW DO YOU FINISH YOUR

                    COMPETITION IF YOU HAVE A BROKEN FIRING PIN?  WHAT HAPPENS TO THE

                    THOUSANDS OF -- OF INCIDENTS THAT HAPPENS ACROSS OUR STATE EVERY YEAR?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THOUSANDS OF

                    TIMES.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  IT IS QUITE -- QUITE FREQUENT IN --

                    IN THE SPORTING WORLD TO BREAK A FIRING PIN.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THAT -- YOU KNOW.  THAT --

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  IT'S VERY COMMON.  VERY

                    COMMON.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OKAY.  WELL THAT'S THE

                    RESPONSIBILITY UNDER THE LAW.

                                         47



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  SO HOW WOULD YOU -- YOU

                    WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FINISH THE COMPETITION.  IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING

                    ME?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE PROPER

                    FIRING PIN THEN I GUESS YOU WOULDN'T.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  SO, MY NEXT QUESTION -- I'M

                    SORRY, I THOUGHT I HAD THE LAST QUESTION --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEAH, YOU SAID ONE.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  BUT --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  GO AHEAD.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  BUT APPARENTLY I CAN'T COUNT.  MY

                    NEXT QUESTION WOULD BE, IF YOU DO BREAK THAT FIRING PIN AND YOU HAVE

                    THAT USELESS WEAPON, HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT GETTING ANOTHER FIRING PIN

                    FOR THAT WEAPON?  DO YOU HAVE TO SEND THAT WEAPON BACK TO THE

                    MANUFACTURER?  WILL THE MANUFACTURER SEND YOU A FIRING PIN BECAUSE

                    DOESN'T THAT HAVE TO BE FIRED THROUGH THE -- THROUGH THE WEAPON IN

                    ORDER TO REGISTER THAT -- THAT CARTRIDGE?  SO THAT WOULD ENTAIL SENDING

                    THAT WEAPON BACK TO THE MANUFACTURER AT AN INCURRED COST TO THE -- TO

                    THE SHOOTER, SHIPPING IT ALL BACK, WHATEVER THE MANUFACTURER -- THEY'RE

                    NOT GOING TO DO IT FOR FREE.  THAT'S -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT FOR FREE,

                    SO IT SEEMS LIKE A LARGE INCONVENIENCE FOR A LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN TO

                    HAVE TO GO THROUGH TO KEEP SHOOTING IN THE -- IN THE SPORT THAT THEY --

                    THEY SO DEARLY APPRECIATE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, I THINK IF YOU GO TO THE

                    GUN DEALER THEY COULD PROVIDE ADVICE AND DIRECTION AND PROBABLY A

                                         48



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    FIRING PIN.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  I'M SURE THE FIRING -- THE -- THE

                    DEALER IS NOT GOING TO HAVE FIRING PINS AT THEIR -- AT THEIR DISPOSAL AT

                    THEIR -- AT THEIR SHOP.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OKAY.  I MEAN DCJS I'M SURE

                    WILL CONSIDER ALL OF THESE SCENARIOS.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GALLAHAN:  THIS TECHNOLOGY'S BEEN AROUND

                    FOR -- FOR DECADES.  NEW YORK PARTICIPATED IN THIS TECHNOLOGY FOR FIVE

                    YEARS.  NEVER SOLVED A CRIME.  OUR FORMER GOVERNOR RECOGNIZED THAT

                    THIS WAS A COST BURDEN TO THE STATE, A SEVERE COST BURDEN TO THE STATE

                    AND DISBANDED THE PROGRAM.  I CAN'T SEE WHERE TECHNOLOGY HAS

                    ADVANCED TO THE POINT -- THE OTHER STATES THAT ARE DOING IT CERTAINLY

                    AREN'T SUCCESSFUL WITH SOLVING CRIMES WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY.  I'M

                    LOOKING THROUGH THE BILL MEMOS.  I DON'T SEE THE SUPPORT OF ANY LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.  I SEE SOME NO OPINIONS BUT I SEE NO SUPPORT.

                    SO I CANNOT -- I CANNOT SUPPORT THIS BILL.  THE TECHNOLOGY IS NOT WHERE

                    IT NEEDS TO BE.  IT IS NOT SUCCESSFUL IN ANY OTHER STATE.  ANY KIND OF -- I

                    DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT A CRIME HAS BEEN SOLVED WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY IN

                    OTHER STATES.

                                 SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  I WOULD

                    ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. LAWLER.

                                         49



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES, OF COURSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU.  SO I -- I WANT TO START

                    WHERE MY COLLEAGUE JUST LEFT OFF BECAUSE I'M -- I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED BY

                    THIS.  SO, THE MICROSTAMPING TECHNOLOGY THAT YOU ASSERT AS AVAILABLE

                    AND FUNCTIONING WOULD BE WITH RESPECT TO THE FIRING PIN, CORRECT?

                    THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES?  IT MICROSTAMPS THE FIRING PIN?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I MEAN IT MICROSTAMP -- THE

                    CASING IS WHAT IS MICROSTAMPED.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  BUT THE -- THE ACTUAL ENGRAVEMENT IS

                    ON THE FIRING PIN?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO WHEN THE FIRING PIN

                    BREAKS, AS MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES EXPLAINED -- AND I WOULD TAKE THEIR

                    ADVICE ON THIS, THEY ALL SEEM TO HAVE QUITE A BIT OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IT

                    -- WHEN THE FIRING PIN BREAKS AND YOU REPLACE THE FIRING PIN, IS THE

                    MICROSTAMP SUPPOSED TO BE THE EXACT SAME MICROSTAMP THAT WAS ON

                    THE BROKEN FIRING PIN, OR IS IT A NEW MICROSTAMP?

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, EACH -- IT'S A UNIQUE CODE

                    EACH TIME.  SO I WOULD THEN SAY THAT IT IS PROBABLY SPECIFIC TO -- AND I'D

                                         50



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ALSO QUESTION HOW OFTEN THE FIRING PIN BREAKS.  I KNOW YOU'VE SAID IT

                    BREAKS A LOT, BUT IT IS -- IT'S EXTREMELY HARD TO REMOVE AND I DON'T

                    BELIEVE IT BREAKS THAT OFTEN.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WELL, CAN I YOU ASK A QUESTION?  DO

                    YOU HAVE FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE WITH WHETHER OR NOT IT BREAKS OR YOU'RE

                    JUST SURMISING?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  DO YOU?

                                 MR. LAWLER:  I -- I DO, YES.  DO YOU?  I'M -- I'M

                    JUST ASKING.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I HAVE CONSULTED WITH MANY

                    EXPERTS IN THIS FIELD AND WHAT THEY TELL ME IS THAT IT DOESN'T BREAK THAT

                    OFTEN AS YOU ALLUDE TO --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WELL, I DIDN'T -- JUST TO -- FOR CLARITY,

                    I DIDN'T ALLUDE TO, MY COLLEAGUES WALKED -- WALKED THROUGH IT AND I'M

                    JUST FOLLOWING UP.  SO IF --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IF THE DEALER -- THE DEALER WOULD

                    REPLACE IT WITH A NEW MICROSTAMPED PIN.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WITH A NEW FIRING PIN.  WOULD IT BE

                    THE SAME MICROSTAMPED ENGRAVING OR WOULD IT BE A NEW MICROSTAMPED

                    ENGRAVING?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT WOULD BE A NEW

                    MICROSTAMPED --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO ONCE IT'S A NEW

                    MICROSTAMPED ENGRAVING -- SO YOU CAN ONLY HAVE -- THERE'S ONLY GOING

                    TO BE ONE FIRING PIN WITH A MICROSTAMPED ENGRAVING.  IN OTHER WORDS,

                                         51



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    YOU CAN'T ORDER TEN OF THEM WITH THE SAME -- SAME ENGRAVING, CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEAH, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE,

                    YOU KNOW --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  IT'S GOT TO BE UNIQUE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  -- CONNECTED.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  YOU WANT IT TO BE UNIQUE, LIKE A

                    FINGERPRINT.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  RIGHT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  AND YOU WANT IT TO BE

                    CONNECTED WITH THE -- THE GUN --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  YOU DON'T WANT SOMEBODY TO BE ABLE

                    TO TAKE A FIRING PIN AND --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  MR. LAVINE, WHY DO

                    YOU RISE?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WOULD THE GENTLEMAN POSING THE

                    QUESTIONS PLEASE ALLOW THE SPONSOR TO FINISH HER STATEMENT BEFORE

                    INTERRUPTING?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  OKAY.  LET'S ONE TALK,

                    THE OTHER TALK.  I'M GOING TO TRY TO DO MY -- MY BEST MR. AUBRY UP HERE.

                    SO --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER JONES:  -- WE'LL ASK QUESTIONS

                    AND ALLOW THE SPONSOR TO ANSWER.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU.  BEFORE I WAS RUDELY

                                         52



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    INTERRUPTED, LET ME REPHRASE MY QUESTION.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T THINK YOU WERE RUDELY

                    INTERRUPTED.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  I WAS.  I'LL REPHRASE MY QUESTION.  IF

                    THE MICROSTAMP IS REPLACED WITH A NEW MICROSTAMP ON THE FIRING PIN --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  -- DOES THAT HAVE TO BE REREGISTERED

                    SOMEWHERE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I THINK THERE -- THERE WOULD BE A

                    NEW RECORD OF PURCHASE.  SO YES, IT WOULD HAVE TO -- YOU KNOW, ON --

                    ON THIS DOCUMENT WHERE -- ON THIS DOCUMENT WHERE ALL THE VITAL

                    INFORMATION IS RECORDED, THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE ADDED TO IT.  SO, YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO IT WOULD BE REGISTERED IN A

                    SYSTEM THAT WOULD BE SET UP BY --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS IS -- THIS IS -- SORRY.  THE

                    SYSTEM IS SET UP, WE JUST HAVE TO ADD THIS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO IT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO IN THE SYSTEM THAT HAS

                    ALREADY BEEN SET UP UNDER THE SAFE ACT?  IS THAT WHAT WE'RE -- WHAT

                    SYSTEM ARE WE REFERRING TO?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THERE IS A SYSTEM, WHICH I CAN

                    -- IF YOU HOLD ON I CAN GET IT AND DESCRIBE, BUT IT'S... OKAY.  OKAY, SO, IF

                    YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO WANTS TO PURCHASE A HANDGUN MUST OBTAIN A

                    LICENSE, STATE LAW REQUIRES A COPY OF ALL THE LICENSES TO BE FILED WITH

                    THE COUNTY CLERK, A DUPLICATE COPY OF THE LICENSE TO BE FILED WITH THE

                    LICENSING OFFICER OF THE STATE POLICE, AND THE STATE IS SUPPOSED TO

                                         53



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    MAINTAIN A DATABASE OF ALL PERMIT RECORDS.  AND SO DEALERS ALSO HAVE TO

                    KEEP RECORDS OF LICENSES.  SO WITHIN THAT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO EVERY TIME THE FIRING PIN

                    IS REPLACED IT HAS TO BE REGISTERED.  SO, IN OTHER WORDS, WOULD THE GUN

                    OWNER BE ABLE TO REPLACE THE FIRING PIN THEMSELVES OR WOULD THEY HAVE

                    TO GO TO A DEALER TO REPLACE IT SO THAT IT CAN BE REGISTERED?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  A PERSON WOULD BE ABLE TO

                    REPLACE IT BUT THEY HAVE TO PURCHASE IT AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO

                    REGISTER IT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO THEY COULD PURCHASE -- FOR

                    INSTANCE, LET'S SAY THEY PURCHASED FIVE AT A TIME.  WHEN THEY PURCHASE

                    IT ALL FIVE WOULD BE REGISTERED WITH THAT GUN?  IS THAT HOW THAT WOULD

                    WORK IF THEY PURCHASED MULTIPLE AT A TIME BECAUSE THEY NEEDED TO BE

                    ABLE TO REPLACE IT?  IT WOULD BE REGISTERED AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, THE -- THE BILL DOESN'T

                    GOES INTO DETAILS ON THAT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  WHAT HAPPENS IF DCJS

                    DECLINES TO CERTIFY?  WHAT -- WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WITH THIS BILL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE

                    RENDERED UNWORKABLE AND WE'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND COME UP WITH

                    SOMETHING ELSE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  AND THIS BILL IS MODELED ON

                    CALIFORNIA'S LAW OR --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO, IT'S -- IT'S -- IT TAKES INTO

                    ACCOUNT WHAT HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA AND AVOIDS SOME OF THE PITFALLS

                                         54



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THAT OCCURRED IN CALIFORNIA BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF COOPERATION FROM

                    GUN MANUFACTURERS.  AND AS SOMEONE EARLIER POINTED OUT, THE

                    CALIFORNIA LAW WAS 2007, SO WE'VE GAINED A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT

                    TECHNOLOGY AND -- SINCE THEN.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO IN 15 YEARS WOULD YOU SAY

                    CALIFORNIA'S LAW IS WORKING?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I'M NOT A CALIFORNIA RESIDENT SO I

                    CAN'T PROPERLY JUDGE IT.  HOWEVER, I THINK NEW YORK'S BILL/LAW WILL

                    WORK BECAUSE WE'VE DESIGNED IT TO WORK.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO THE IDEA BEHIND

                    MICROSTAMPING IS TO SAY IF SOMEBODY PURCHASES A GUN AND THEY COMMIT

                    A CRIME, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TRACE THE SHELL CASING BACK TO THE GUN

                    AND POTENTIALLY THE OWNER; CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  NOW, THIS WOULD APPLY TO ALL

                    THOSE WHO LEGALLY PURCHASE A GUN AND COMMIT A CRIME.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  SEMI -- SEMIAUTOMATICS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  RIGHT.  WHAT HAPPENS WITH 16- AND

                    17-YEAR-OLDS WHO USE A GUN IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS BILL DOESN'T ADDRESS THAT

                    PARTICULAR SITUATION.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WELL, THIS BILL APPLIES TO ANYBODY,

                    CORRECT, WHO WOULD USE A MICROSTAMPED GUN IN THE COMMISSION OF A

                    CRIME, RIGHT, OR DOES SOMETHING TO CHANGE THE MICROSTAMPING ON A GUN,

                    CORRECT?

                                         55



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I MEAN, THIS BILL APPLIES TO THE

                    SALE AND DEFACEMENT.  SO IT DOESN'T --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  I'M SORRY, DEFACEMENT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  DEFACEMENT.  IF SOMEBODY --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO IF THEY -- IF THEY ALTER THE

                    MICROSTAMPING.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YEAH.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO IF THE 16- OR 17-YEAR-OLD

                    USES A DEFACED MICROSTAMPED GUN WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IT DEPENDS.  IF THEY DEFACED IT --

                    HOLD ON A SEC.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WILL THEY BE CHARGED CRIMINALLY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU ON

                    THAT.  I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO -- I MEAN, I THINK IT'S AN

                    IMPORTANT QUESTION TO HAVE AN ANSWER ON BECAUSE AS WE'VE SEEN ACROSS

                    THE STATE YOU HAVE A LOT OF 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLDS THAT ARE COMMITTING

                    CRIMES WITH GUNS.  AND IF WE'RE TRYING TO CLOSE SOME OF THE LOOPHOLES,

                    IF WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS GUN VIOLENCE, SHOULDN'T THOSE WHO USE A GUN

                    IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN CRIMINAL COURT?

                    SO IF THEY ALTER A MICROSTAMPED GUN AND USE THAT IN THE COMMISSION OF

                    A CRIME SHOULDN'T THEY BE CHARGED CRIMINALLY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THE

                    LAST QUESTION?

                                 MR. LAWLER:  YES, NO PROBLEM.  SO IF A -- IF THE

                                         56



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OBJECTIVE HERE IS TO ENSURE THAT WE GIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT A TOOL --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  -- TO GO AFTER CRIMINALS AND THAT

                    ANYBODY WHO WOULD ALTER THE MICROSTAMPING OF A GUN IS HELD

                    ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A 16- OR 17-YEAR-OLD USES A

                    GUN -- AND THIS IS NOT LIKE SOME HYPOTHETICAL, THIS IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING

                    -- WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT 16- OR 17-YEAR-OLD?  SHOULD THEY BE HELD IN --

                    -- IN -- CHARGED IN CRIMINAL COURT BASED ON THIS LAW?

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THE LAWS GOVERNING 16- AND

                    17-YEAR-OLDS WOULD -- WOULD APPLY HERE AND THEY WOULD BE

                    MISDEMEANOR OFFENSES.  FOR THE FIRST VIOLATION, IT WOULD BE A CLASS B,

                    SECOND WOULD BE A CLASS A IF -- IF THEY BASICALLY DEFACE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO WHEN YOU SAY THE LAWS GOVERNING

                    16- AND 17-YEAR-OLDS WOULD APPLY, THAT MEANS THEY WOULD BE CHARGED

                    IN FAMILY COURT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY, SO DO YOU NOT SEE A PROBLEM

                    WITH SOMEBODY WHO'S 16 AND 17 USING A DEFACED GUN IN THE

                    COMMISSION OF A CRIME?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS

                    DEFACEMENT, NOT -- NOT USED BY A PERSON OF -- OF A CERTAIN AGE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WELL, IN ORDER TO DETERMINE THE

                    DEFACEMENT OBVIOUSLY IT WAS USED SOMEWHERE, CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NOT NECESSARILY.

                                         57



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO IF THEY JUST CARRY A

                    DEFACED GUN HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DETERMINE THAT IT WAS DEFACED IF

                    THEY'RE JUST CARRYING IT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THAT WOULD BE UP TO LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.

                                 ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  IT'S CLEAR BASED ON THIS CONVERSATION

                    HERE TODAY THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS UNANSWERED AND THE

                    TECHNOLOGY IS NOT THERE.  THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TO STIPULATE IN THE BILL

                    THAT DCJS NEEDS TO CERTIFY OR NOT CERTIFY, DECLINE TO CERTIFY WHETHER OR

                    NOT THIS TECHNOLOGY IS THERE AND VIABLE IS DISTURBING.  SO MANY OF THE

                    QUESTIONS COULDN'T EVEN BE ANSWERED.  AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FACT

                    THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MICROSTAMPING A SPECIFIC COMPONENT THAT CAN

                    BE EASILY REPLACED, OBVIOUSLY THOSE PEOPLE WHO WOULD SEEK TO DO HARM

                    AND COMMIT VIOLENT ACTS WILL DO JUST THAT.  THEY WILL DEFACE THE GUN.

                    OR AS MY COLLEAGUE ASTUTELY POINTED OUT THEY WILL USE A REVOLVER IN

                    WHICH THE CASING DOES NOT LEAVE THE GUN.  SO I THINK THIS BILL HAS A LOT

                    OF WORK STILL LEFT TO DO.  I THINK IT CONTINUES TO BE DEEPLY DISTURBING THAT

                    WHEN THIS BODY TRIES TO ADDRESS GUN VIOLENCE THEY REFUSE TO ADDRESS

                    16- AND 17-YEAR-OLDS WHO USE GUNS IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME.  IF --

                    IF WE'RE TRYING TO END GUN VIOLENCE, IF WE'RE TRYING TO END THE SCOURGE

                    OF PEOPLE USING GUNS TO CAUSE HARM THEN THERE MUST BE ZERO TOLERANCE.

                    A16- OR 17-YEAR-OLD SHOULD BE CHARGED IN CRIMINAL COURT IF THEY WERE

                                         58



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO VIOLATE THIS LAW OR ANY OTHER PROVISIONS WITH RESPECT TO GUNS.  IT IS

                    ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO POSSES IT AND YET WE WANT TO CHARGE THEM IN FAMILY

                    COURT.  THIS IS HAPPENING ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHERE GANGS ARE USING

                    16- AND 17-YEARS-OLDS TO COMMIT CRIMES.  AND SO IF WE'RE GOING TO

                    CRACK DOWN ON ILLEGAL GUNS, ON GHOST GUNS, IF WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO

                    MICROSTAMP GUNS THEN THERE HAS TO BE ZERO TOLERANCE.  AND THE FACT THAT

                    MY COLLEAGUE SAID THAT --

                                 (BUZZER SOUNDS)

                                 -- THE CURRENT LAWS WOULD GOVERN 16- AND

                    17-YEAR-OLDS IS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAWLER, THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU SO MUCH, MA'AM.

                    EARLIER -- EARLIER ON THE DEBATE WE -- THIS IS A MICROSTAMPING BILL, OF

                    COURSE, YOU TALKED ABOUT GUN SAFETY.  SO -- SO WHAT DOES THIS BILL DO FOR

                    GUN SAFETY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS GIVE LAW

                                         59



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ENFORCEMENT A TOOL TO -- TO TRACK DOWN CRIMES AND THE PEOPLE WHO

                    COMMIT THEM.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  BUT ISN'T THE GOAL IS TO CREATE

                    NO CRIMES, TO STOP THE CRIMES FROM HAPPENING THROUGH DIFFERENT WAYS

                    OF DOING GUN SAFETY?  ISN'T THAT THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS TO STOP THE CRIMES,

                    STOP COMMITTING THE CRIMES, STOP USING A GUN.  ISN'T THAT THE ULTIMATE

                    GOAL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WE

                    WANT THAT TO BE A GOAL OF ALL OF OUR -- OUR GUN LAWS.  HOWEVER, IT MAKES

                    PEOPLE HAVE TO BE MORE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE LAW BECAUSE THEY ARE

                    REQUIRED TO USE MICROSTAMPED-ENABLED SEMIAUTOMATIC TO BUY IT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WHO DOES IT MAKE MORE

                    ACCOUNTABLE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WHO DOES IT MAKE MORE

                    ACCOUNTABLE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WHO DOESN'T...

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WHO -- YOU SAID IT MAKES

                    INDIVIDUALS MORE ACCOUNTABLE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WHAT INDIVIDUALS ARE YOU

                    TALKING ABOUT?  WHO -- WHO DOES IT MAKE MORE ACCOUNTABLE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  SO IF A PERSON BUYS A

                    MICROSTAMPED THEY KNOW THAT IF THEY USE IT IN COMMITTING A CRIME, FOR

                    EXAMPLE, THAT IT CAN BE MORE EASILY TRACED.

                                         60



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO YOU -- YOU -- SO JUST TO --

                    JUST TO HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS.  SO IF I'M A BAD GUY OR A ROBBER OR

                    SOMETHING, I'M GOING TO KNOW TO CHECK THAT PISTOL OUT AND MAKE -- TO

                    SEE IF IT'S MICROSTAMPED BEFORE I COMMIT THE CRIME SO -- SO I KNOW I

                    WON'T DO IT THEN BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S MICROSTAMPED?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, WE -- WE -- WE ENACT

                    LAWS AND -- AND WE EXPECT PEOPLE TO BE LAW-ABIDING AND FOLLOW THE

                    LAW.  IN THIS CASE IF A MICROSTAMPED GUN IS USED IN THE COMMISSION OF A

                    CRIME, LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS ANOTHER TOOL TO HELP TRACK DOWN WHO --

                    WHO COMMITTED THAT CRIME.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO -- SO IF MY GUN IS -- IF MY

                    PISTOL IS TAKEN FROM MY HOUSE AND IT'S MICROSTAMPED, SOMEBODY USES IT

                    IN A CRIME WILL I BE HELD LIABLE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IS IT WHAT?

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WILL I BE HELD LIABLE BECAUSE IT

                    WAS MY PISTOL?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, I -- I WOULD HOPE IF THAT

                    HAPPENED TO YOU THAT YOU WOULD REPORT IT IMMEDIATELY THAT YOUR GUN

                    WAS STOLEN.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WELL, OF COURSE.  ABSOLUTELY

                    THE FIRST THING I -- THE FIRST THING I WOULD DO, MA'AM.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  BUT IF -- IF THE BAD PERSON GETS

                    MY PISTOL AND USES IT TO KILL SOMEONE BECAUSE IT WAS MY PISTOL --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  RIGHT.

                                         61



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  -- HE TOOK IT, HE OR SHE TOOK IT,

                    IS THERE A CHANCE THAT I WOULD BE HELD LIABLE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IF SOMEONE STOLE YOUR CAR AND

                    YOU HIT SOMEBODY, WOULD YOU BE CHARGED WITH KILLING THAT PERSON?  IT'S

                    THE SAME SYSTEM.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO I -- SO I WOULD NOT

                    BE HELD LIABLE.  THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, RIGHT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IF YOU DID NOT DO IT AND YOU

                    REPORTED THAT YOUR GUN IS STOLEN THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU WILL NOT BE HELD

                    LIABLE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO AS LONG AS I REPORT IT I

                    SHOULD BE IN THE CLEAR.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, YOU KNOW HOW IT IS.  IF

                    YOUR -- IF YOUR CAR IS STOLEN AND -- AS I SAID EARLIER, YOUR CAR IS STOLEN,

                    THE PERSON WHO STOLE IT HITS SOMEONE AND KILLS THEM, THEY'RE NOT GOING

                    GO TO YOU, THEY'RE GOING TO TRACK DOWN -- IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT OF THE

                    CASE THEY'RE GOING TO TRACK DOWN WHO -- WHO ACTUALLY DID IT.  AND IF

                    YOU HAVE A PERFECTLY GOOD EXPLANATION, THEN WHY WOULD YOU BE HELD

                    ACCOUNTABLE?

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO -- SO I STILL DON'T

                    UNDERSTAND.  SO IF YOU TRACKED DOWN MY PISTOL THAT BELONGS TO ME IN A

                    CRIME, HOW DOES THAT HELP SOLVE THAT CRIME?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  IF YOU -- YOU KNOW, IT GIVES

                    THEM A LEAD.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  A LEAD TO WHAT?

                                         62



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THE MORE INFORMATION THAT LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT HAS THE BETTER THAT THEY CAN FIT THE PIECES TOGETHER.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WELL, IF THEY HAVE THE

                    CARTRIDGE THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN MICROSTAMPED, THEY HAVE ALL THE

                    INFORMATION THEY'RE GOING TO GAIN FROM THAT PISTOL.  I JUST -- I JUST REALLY

                    DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT MORE THEY'RE GOING TO GAIN.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, WE -- WELL, I'M NOT

                    LAW ENFORCEMENT.  I DON'T DEVELOP CASES, BUT --

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SURE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  -- VERY EXPERIENCED DETECTIVES,

                    ET CETERA, THEY KNOW HOW TO HANDLE THESE KIND OF ISSUES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  JUST ANOTHER QUESTION.

                    YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HELPING TO SOLVE CRIMES.  WHAT KIND OF CRIMES ARE

                    YOU TALKING ABOUT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  ANY CRIMES THAT ARE COMMITTED

                    WITH THESE PISTOLS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO A ROBBERY, A MURDER,

                    ANYTHING.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WHATEVER CRIMES ARE COMMITTED

                    WITH THE PISTOLS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  ARE -- ARE WE DOING

                    ANYTHING TO ADDRESS THE INDIVIDUAL THAT'S ACTUALLY PULLING THE TRIGGER?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THE WHAT?

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  ARE WE DOING ANYTHING THAT

                    ACTUALLY ADDRESSES THE INDIVIDUAL THAT MAKES THE DECISION TO PULL THAT

                                         63



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TRIGGER?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THAT'S BEYOND THE SCOPE OF

                    THIS BILL.  BUT THERE -- WE HAVE OTHER LAWS.  THERE ARE OTHER BILLS

                    COMING UP THAT PERHAPS DEAL WITH THAT, BUT THIS BILL DOES NOT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO THE WAY I LOOK AT IT,

                    GUN SAFETY WOULD BE USED PRIOR TO SOMEONE USING A GUN, TEACHING THEM

                    THE RIGHT AND WRONG WAYS.  I GUESS THAT'S WHERE MY CONFUSION WAS.

                                 I WAS DOING A LITTLE RESEARCH WHILE WE WERE DEBATING

                    HERE WITH SOME OF THE OTHER MEMBERS, AND DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY OF

                    THE -- WHAT THE MAKEUP IS OF MALE VERSUS FEMALE SHOOTERS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DO NOT HAVE THAT NUMBER HERE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  IT'S ABOUT 90 TO 95 PERCENT

                    MALE SHOOTERS, MAYBE EVEN A LITTLE MORE IN SOME SITUATIONS.  I WONDER

                    WHY THAT IS.  I WONDER WHY IT'S MALE -- THAT MANY MALE VERSUS FEMALE.

                    WHY IS IT NOT 50-50, 65 -- 65-35?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I'M NOT SURE HOW -- WHAT THE

                    RELEVANCE OF THAT QUESTION IS TO THIS BILL'S CONTENT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  WELL, THE BILL IS

                    ULTIMATELY DESIGNED FOR GUN SAFETY TO STOP CRIMES, CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO MATTER YOUR -- YOUR GENDER,

                    HOW YOU IDENTIFY, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH

                    IT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO, IT HAS TO DO WITH THE PERSON

                    WHO DEFACES OR -- OR BUYS IT, SELLS IT, AND NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR

                                         64



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    GENDER, IF THEY'RE GAY, IF THEY'RE TRANSGENDER, IF THEY'RE STRAIGHT, IF

                    THEY'RE NON-BINARY.  NONE OF THAT HAS ANY IMPORTANCE HERE WHEN IT

                    COMES TO THIS BILL.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  SO ALL THIS BILL IS GOING

                    TO DO IS IDENTIFY THE CARTRIDGE THAT WAS -- THAT WAS USED COMING OUT OF

                    THE GUN, THE AUTOMATIC PISTOL BECAUSE OF THE MICROSTAMPING, CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  AND -- AND IF WE DO THAT, THAT

                    WILL HELP MAKE OUR STREETS SAFER, CREATE LESS -- LESS CRIMES?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW -- AND I'M GOING TO

                    MAKE A PUN HERE -- THERE'S NO MAGIC BULLET THAT WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM

                    OF GUN VIOLENCE OUT THERE.  BUT WE TAKE STEPS.  AND AS I'M SURE YOU'VE

                    HEARD, THE PLEAS OF THE MOTHERS AND FATHERS WHOSE CHILDREN WERE

                    MASSACRED IN BUFFALO OR IN TEXAS, THEY SAY, DO SOMETHING.  WE ARE

                    DOING SOMETHING, AND THERE ARE MORE BILLS IN THIS PACKAGE THAT WILL DO

                    SOMETHING BECAUSE IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS

                    NOT GOING TO TAKE STEPS, WE HERE IN THE STATE WILL DO SOMETHING TO

                    PROTECT OUR SOCIETY FROM GUN VIOLENCE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME,

                    MADAM.  AND YES, YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT.  THERE IS NO SILVER BULLET THAT

                    WILL FIX ANYTHING OF THIS.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, MINE WAS "MAGIC" BUT

                    YOU CAN HAVE A SILVER ONE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WELL, I'M -- WELL, I THANK YOU

                    --

                                         65



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  -- FOR YOUR TIME.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, SIR.  I JUST ASKED A

                    FEW QUESTIONS AND THE SPONSOR DID SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE MASS

                    SHOOTINGS.  OF COURSE WE'RE -- WE'RE DEVASTATED FOR THOSE FAMILIES THAT

                    LOST THOSE LOVES ONES, AND AS THE SPONSOR SAID, IT'S -- THE FEDERAL

                    GOVERNMENT IS NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING.  THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ADDRESS

                    THIS.  OR AT LEAST NOT THE WAY WE THINK WE SHOULD HERE IN NEW YORK

                    STATE.  BUT AGAIN, WE ARE AGAIN LOOKING AT THE GUN.  THE GUN HERE IS NOT

                    THE ISSUE.  AND I WILL GIVE THIS EXAMPLE -- I'LL GIVE TWO EXAMPLES,

                    ACTUALLY:  IF A BAD PERSON USES A GUN AND KILLS SOMEONE, THEY -- THEY

                    BLAME THAT PERSON -- OR THEY BLAME THAT GUN, I'M SORRY.  THEY BLAME THE

                    GUN.  WHEN OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT, GOD FORBID THEY HAVE TO USE IT TO

                    SAVE SOMEBODY'S LIFE, WHO'S ON TRIAL?  IT'S OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS

                    RIGHT OFF THE BAT.  IT'S NOT THAT GUN, IT'S OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS.

                    WE HAVE GOT TO COME TOGETHER TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION.

                                 SO I WAS DOING A LITTLE RESEARCH, AND AS THE SPONSOR

                    HAD BROUGHT UP AGAIN ABOUT THE MASS SHOOTINGS NOT ONLY RECENTLY HERE

                    IN NEW YORK AND IN TEXAS, WHICH ARE HORRIFIC, BUT AROUND -- AROUND

                    THE UNITED STATES, AROUND -- AROUND EVERYWHERE.  SO WHEN I WAS YOUNG

                    -- MY PRIOR MEMBER HERE HAD TALKED ABOUT 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLDS.

                    WHAT'S THE COMMON THREAD?  IF YOU DO THE MATH, IF YOU LOOK AT

                    EVERYTHING GOING ON, THE COMMON THREAD ARE -- IS MOST OF THESE

                                         66



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SHOOTERS ARE MALE SHOOTERS.  NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.  SO WHAT'S DRIVING

                    THOSE MALE SHOOTERS TODAY?  I WAS A MALE.  I WAS A MALE BACK AT 16 AND

                    17.  I HAD LOTS OF GUNS.  I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT SHOOTING ANYBODY, I

                    NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT COMMITTING A CRIME.  SO I WAS DOING A LITTLE

                    RESEARCH ON THIS, AND WE HAVE TO STOP IT BEFORE IT GETS TO THE CRIME.  SO

                    WHAT'S DRIVING THESE YOUNG MEN, THESE YOUNG MALE FIGURES TO DO THESE

                    CRIMES?  AND LOOKING AT WHAT ONE OF THE PROFESSORS LOOKED AT, THEY'RE

                    -- THEY'RE LOOKING AT VIDEO GAMES.  THE DRASTIC AGGRESSIVE SOLUTIONS.

                    AND I'LL QUOTE -- I'LL -- I WOULD LIKE TO READ THIS, WHAT DR. ANDERSON

                    SAID.  VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES PROVIDE A FORM FOR LEARNING AND PRACTICING

                    AGGRESSIVE SOLUTIONS TO CONFLICT -- TO CONFLICT SITUATIONS, SAID DR.

                    ANDERSON.  IN THE SHORT-RUN, PLAYING A VIDEO --A VIOLENT VIDEO GAME

                    APPEARS TO AFFECT AGGRESSIVE (INAUDIBLE) PRIMARY AND AGGRESSIVE

                    THOUGHTS.  AND IF YOU LOOK -- IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF MALE OR

                    YOUNG MEN THAT PLAY VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES COMPARED TO YOUNG BOYS AND

                    MEN THAT CREATE VIOLENT ACTIONS BY SHOOTING, THERE'S DEFINITELY A TIE.

                    THERE'S A TIE TOGETHER.  SO INSTEAD OF AGAIN ADDRESSING THE GUN, LET'S

                    HELP THESE INDIVIDUALS GET HELP SO THEY DON'T GET TO THE POINT WHERE

                    THEY'RE USING A GUN.  WE, AS THE STATE, SHOULD BE LOOKING AT SOME OF

                    THIS INSTEAD OF AGAIN ADDRESSING A GUN THAT WE ALL KNOW IF WE'RE GOING

                    TO MICROSTAMP IT'S NOT GOING TO STOP A BAD PERSON FROM USING IT.

                    THEY'RE GOING TO FIND WAYS AROUND IT.  WE'VE HEARD THAT THIS MORNING

                    HEAR ON THE FLOOR.  WE KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO GET IT FROM ANOTHER STATE,

                    WE KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO FILE SOMETHING DOWN.  LET'S REALLY ADDRESS

                    THE ISSUE AND GET THESE YOUNG INDIVIDUALS HELP.  THAT IS THE MOST

                                         67



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PROACTIVE THING WE CAN DO, BECAUSE AS THE SPONSOR SAYS, IT WILL HELP

                    SOLVE THE CRIME.  LET'S DO THE RIGHT THING AND NOT ALLOW IT TO BE A CRIME.

                    LET'S STOP IT BEFORE IT BECOMES A CRIME.  LET'S GET THE HELP FOR THESE

                    INDIVIDUALS.  SO MR. SPONSOR -- I'M SORRY, MR. SPEAKER, I APOLOGIZE --

                    MR. SPEAKER, THIS DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.  THIS ISN'T GOING TO SLOW

                    ANYTHING DOWN.  WE HAVE TO GET IT DONE BEFORE THEY GET THE URGE TO

                    WANT TO SHOOT.  SO LET'S WORK ON THAT, AND I'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO

                    HELP ANYONE DO THIS.

                                 SO THANK YOU FOR THE TIME, MADAM SPONSOR, THANK

                    YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.  I VERY

                    MUCH APPRECIATE IT.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THANK YOU.  FIRST, I'D LIKE TO

                    CONGRATULATE PEOPLE ON MY SIDE OF THE AISLE.  THEY'VE SHOWN THAT

                    THEY'RE KNOWLEDGEABLE, EXPERTISE AND THEY KNOW THIS BILL INSIDE AND

                    OUT AND THEY'VE DONE A GREAT JOB.  I WOULD LIKE TO START OUT WITH WE ALL

                    DEBATE A LOT OF THINGS UP HERE SOME OF US DON'T LIKE.  YOU KNOW, THERE'S

                    A LOT OF GARBAGE UP HERE, BUT FOR ME PERSONALLY THIS IS PROBABLY THE

                    BIGGEST DUMP -- DUMPSTER FIRE OF ANY BILL THAT I'VE DEBATED.  AND I

                    ENJOY DEBATING THIS BECAUSE LET'S START OUT WITH TECHNOLOGY.  LET'S BE

                    VERY CLEAR:  THERE IS NO TECHNOLOGY OUT THERE TODAY TO MICROSTAMP.

                                         68



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ZERO.  SO YOU CAN TALK ABOUT PIE IN THE SKY, WE'RE GOING TO DO

                    SOMETHING, WE'RE GOING TO STOP THE CRIMINALS WITH MICROSTAMPING.

                    THERE'S NO TECHNOLOGY.  TALK TO REMINGTON.  I HAVE.  TALK TO THE

                    LEADING SCIENTISTS ON MICROSTAMPING OUT OF CALIFORNIA.  I HAVE.  THE

                    TECHNOLOGY IS NOT THERE.  IT'S LIKE SAYING, WE ALMOST FOUND BIGFOOT.  WE

                    ALMOST GOT HIM.  IT'S NOT THERE.

                                 LET ME TELL YOU A LITTLE SOMETHING ABOUT TECHNOLOGY.

                    THIS -- THE PEOPLE HERE IN 1998 I WAS IN DRY CLEANING THAT CHANGED THE

                    TECHNOLOGY FOR A NEW DRY CLEANING MACHINE THAT HAD TO EQUAL SO MANY

                    BILLIONS OF PARTS FOR EMISSIONS.  THERE WAS NO TECHNOLOGY IN THE WORLD

                    AT THAT TIME TO DO THIS.  ONLY IN NEW YORK STATE.  BUT THEY ENACTED IT

                    ANYWAY.  AND YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAID?  THEY SAID BECAUSE THE

                    TECHNOLOGY WILL BE THERE IN A FEW YEARS.  SO WHEN 20 PERCENT OF THE DRY

                    CLEANERS WENT OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T AFFORD THESE NEW

                    MACHINES, WHICH WEREN'T -- WEREN'T TECHNICALLY SPECIFIC, THEY DIDN'T

                    HAVE IT, TO THIS DAY 24, 25 YEARS LATER THE TECHNOLOGY STILL IS NOT THERE

                    AROUND THE WORLD.  THE MANUFACTURERS STILL HAVEN'T FOUND OUT A WAY TO

                    COMPLY WITH ONLY NEW YORK STATE'S TECHNOLOGY.  THAT'S THE JUNK WE

                    GET HERE.  AND WE GOT IT WITH ELECTRIC.  THERE'S NO TECHNOLOGY OUT THERE

                    TO MAKE IT WORTHWHILE IN 2024 AND IN 2030 AND WE'RE DOING IT TODAY.

                                 LET'S TALK ABOUT TECHNOLOGY.  LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FIRING

                    PIN.  OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS CHAMBER HAVE NO CLUE WHAT A

                    FIRING PIN DOES OR WHAT IT IS.  THE FIRING PIN, IF I'M A CRIMINAL - AND

                    SOME MIGHT THINK I AM - BUT I'M JUST GOING TO CHANGE THE FIRING PIN

                    FROM ANOTHER STATE.  HOW STUPID IS THIS?  WE'RE GOING TO PASS UP IN

                                         69



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NEW YORK STATE WHICHEVER CRIMINAL IS JUST GOING TO GO TO ANOTHER

                    STATE.  CAN YOU TELL ME?  I'VE TALKED TO THE SHERIFF IN BUFFALO AND I

                    TALKED TO ONE OF THE TROOPERS -- OR SHERIFFS IN CHICAGO LAST YEAR.  EVERY

                    WEEKEND, HOW MANY MURDERS DO THEY HAVE IN NEW YORK CITY,

                    CHICAGO?  DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY LEGAL GUNS ARE USED IN THOSE

                    MURDERS?  LESS THAN ONE PERCENT.  CRIMINALS DO NOT USE LEGAL GUNS THAT

                    CAN BE TRACED.  AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO USE SOMETHING AS STUPID AS A

                    MICROSTAMP THAT DOESN'T EVEN WORK.  THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE PIN

                    OUT, THEY'RE GOING TO FILE IT DOWN.  AND IF YOU TALK TO THE PEOPLE, THE

                    SCIENTISTS LIKE I HAVE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FILE THE WHOLE THING DOWN, YOU

                    FILE ONE LITTLE PART OF IT AND THEY'LL NEVER TRACE IT.  IT DOESN'T WORK.  LET'S

                    TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY SAID, WELL, WHY DON'T YOU DO A DATABASE?  I HEARD

                    THIS DATABASE.  DO YOU REALLY TRUST A DATABASE?  WHAT DOES THAT

                    DATABASE DO?  WELL, IF YOU WEREN'T HERE TEN YEARS AGO AND DEBATING IT

                    LIKE I DID AND THEN EVERY YEAR AFTER THAT, THE DATABASE WAS WHEN

                    GOVERNOR CUOMO PUT $80 MILLION IN THE SAFE ACT OVER FIVE YEARS,

                    $16 MILLION A YEAR FOR A DATABASE.  AND AN ADDITIONAL $3.2 MILLION

                    EVERY YEAR FOR FIVE YEARS FOR 16 -- WE FOUND OUT 16 STATE TROOPERS.

                    AND YOU KNOW WHAT WAS IRONIC ABOUT THAT AS I DEBATED THAT EVERY YEAR

                    IS BECAUSE THE 16 TROOPERS WHEN I ASKED THE MAJORITY EVERY YEAR WHO

                    THEY WERE, WHAT THEY DID, WHAT THEIR TITLE WAS, WHERE WERE THEY

                    STATIONED, THEY WOULD NOT GIVE ME AN ANSWER BECAUSE GOVERNOR

                    CUOMO TOLD THEM THEY COULDN'T GIVE ANY ANSWERS.  WHAT THEY WERE

                    WERE BROWN SHIRT SECRET POLICE THAT WORKED ONLY FOR THE GOVERNOR.

                    THAT DATABASE THAT HE PUT TOGETHER WAS ONLY TO FIND LAW-ABIDING GUN

                                         70



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OWNERS, $80 MILLION.  WHERE IS THAT DATABASE, FOLKS?  HAVE YOU HEARD

                    IT?  THAT WAS TEN YEARS AGO.  WHERE'S THE DATABASE?  WHO ARE THE 16

                    STATE TROOPERS THAT WERE WORKING SECRETLY FOR GOVERNOR CUOMO ON THE

                    SAFE ACT?  WHERE ARE THEY?  GIVE ME AN ANSWER.  NO ONE HAS IN TEN

                    YEARS.  SO YOU EXPECT US TO SIT HERE WITH THIS GARBAGE LEGISLATION AND

                    BELIEVE IT AND TRUST IT LIKE SOME OF THE OTHER JUNK THAT COMES UP HERE?

                    NOT A CHANCE.  LOOK, FACED WITH THE FACTS ABOUT CRIMINALS THE OTHER

                    SIDE OF THE AISLE REFUSES AND IGNORES THE FACTS.  FOR SOME REASON,

                    CRIMINALS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS AND

                    LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS WHO ARE LEGAL GUN OWNERS ARE NOW CRIMINALS.

                    HOW UPSIDE DOWN AND CRAZY IS THAT?  BUT THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE HERE.

                    OH, YOU WANT AN ILLEGAL GUN, 16, 17-YEAR-OLDS?  OH, FORGET IT, WE'RE NOT

                    EVEN GOING TO TOUCH THAT.  REALLY?  WHY DO YOU THINK REMINGTON LEFT?

                    IT WAS AN ASSAULT ON GUN MANUFACTURERS.  THEY SAID, SEE YOU LATER,

                    SAYONARA.  WE'RE GONE.  THREE THOUSAND JOBS, POOF.  BUT THAT'S OKAY.

                                 YOU KNOW, I DEBATED ANOTHER ONE OF THESE STUPID GUN

                    BILLS IN THE -- IN THE -- IN THE FIRST PART OF THIS SESSION.  I ASKED A VERY

                    SIMPLE QUESTION OF THE SPONSOR.  WHAT DOES AR MEAN TO YOU?  BECAUSE

                    THAT'S ALL WE HEAR, AR-15, AR, AR.  AND THE ANSWER FROM THE MAJORITY

                    WAS ASSAULT RIFLE.  (INDISCERNIBLE SOUND).  NO.  AR STANDS FOR ARMALITE

                    RIFLE COMPANY.  IT'S THE MANUFACTURER WHICH WAS BROKEN DOWN TO AR.

                    IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ASSAULT RIFLE.  THAT'S NOT WHAT IT MEANS.  BUT

                    THAT'S THE IGNORANCE OF PEOPLE WHO DEBATE GUN BILLS WHO DON'T KNOW

                    ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.  I CAN'T WAIT TO PASS THIS BILL

                    AND WATCH THE CRIMINALS GO, BOY, I WAS GOING TO GO SHOOT UP SOMEBODY

                                         71



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    IN CHICAGO OR NEW YORK CITY, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?  I GOT TO WAIT A

                    WEEK BECAUSE I JUST DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT MICROSTAMPED FIRING PIN.  BOY,

                    I'M GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT ON THAT.  GIVE ME A BREAK.  WE WASTED TWO

                    HOURS OF OUR TIME IN THIS CHAMBER ON THIS JUNK.  THIS IS A DUMPSTER

                    FIRE, IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN.  I ENJOY DEBATING IT, THOUGH.  AND I'D LIKE YOU

                    TO TAKE THAT TO HEART VERY SERIOUSLY ABOUT WHAT I SAID ABOUT GOVERNOR

                    CUOMO AND THE $80 MILLION FOR A DATABASE THAT NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IT

                    IS, WHERE IT IS, WHAT IT'S USED FOR.  AND THE $16 MILLION OR THE $2. --

                    EXCUSE ME, $3.2 MILLION FOR FIVE YEARS, ABOUT 16 MILLION THAT WENT TO A

                    SECRET POLICE FORCE WHICH YOU NEVER CAN FIND OUT ANY DATA ON AND HAVE

                    NEVER BEEN ABLE TO.  THAT'S VERY SCARY STUFF, FOLKS, AND IT HAPPENED

                    RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK.

                                 SO WITH THAT, BOY, I -- I URGE A HUGE NO VOTE ON THIS ON

                    JUST ONE BASIC FACT:  THERE'S NO TECHNOLOGY.  IT'S NOT THERE.  IT'S NOT

                    GOING TO BE THERE NEXT YEAR AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THERE THE YEAR AFTER.

                    AND YOU CAN TALK TO THE NUMBER-ONE SCIENTIST WHO IS DEVELOPING THIS IN

                    CALIFORNIA AND HE WILL TELL YOU THAT.  AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT THEN GO

                    AHEAD.  BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?  IS THEY'RE JUST

                    GOING TO GO TO PENNSYLVANIA OR NEW JERSEY AND THEY'RE GOING TO BUY

                    THEIR FIREARMS BECAUSE 99 PERCENT OF ALL THE MURDERERS ARE NOT WITH

                    LEGAL FIREARMS.  AND CRIMINALS ARE VERY SMART.  AND THEY LOOK AT WHAT

                    WE DO UP HERE ON THIS STUFF AND THEY LAUGH.

                                 WITH THAT, I APPRECIATE YOU ALLOWING ME TO VENT MY

                    COMMENTS, MR. SPEAKER.  I URGE A NO VOTE ON THIS.  THANK YOU VERY

                    MUCH.

                                         72



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. REILLY.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  CERTAINLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MS. ROSENTHAL.  SO,

                    CALIFORNIA HAS HAD MICROSTAMPING, AS I HEARD EARLIER, AND THEY'VE HAD IT

                    SINCE 2007, THEY JUST REDID A BILL IN 2020.  DO WE KNOW HOW MANY

                    CASES THAT INVOLVED ILLEGAL SHOOTINGS, AGGRAVATED ASSAULT BY A FIREARM,

                    THAT WERE SOLVED WITH THE USE OF MICROSTAMPING SINCE 2007?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE,

                    THE BILL DID NOT GO INTO EFFECT BECAUSE THE MANUFACTURERS REFUSED TO --

                    TO ISSUE NEW MODELS.  SO WE CAN'T USE ANY DATA FROM CALIFORNIA ON THE

                    ISSUES YOU'RE QUESTIONING ME ABOUT.

                                 MR. REILLY:  IS THERE -- IS THERE ANY DATA THAT'S

                    AVAILABLE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NOT FROM CALIFORNIA.

                                 MR. REILLY:  IS THERE ANY DATA FROM ANYWHERE ELSE

                    BESIDES STUDIES?  I'M TALKING REAL-LIFE PRACTICE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THERE -- THERE ARE PLENTY OF --

                    THERE'S PLENTY OF EVIDENCE ON THE EFFICACY OF MICROSTAMPING AND THE

                                         73



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ABILITY OF LAW ENFORCEMENT TO USE THE CASINGS TO TRACK THE GUN.

                                 MR. REILLY:  CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES OF

                    THAT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I DON'T HAVE EXAMPLES RIGHT

                    HERE, BUT THERE'S PLENTY OF EVIDENCE I CAN GET FOR YOU.

                                 MR. REILLY:  WELL, COULD YOU JUST RATTLE OFF A LITTLE

                    BIT OF TYPES OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU MAY HAVE?  IS THERE STUDIES, HOW

                    MANY -- HOW MANY STUDIES ARE INVOLVED?  MAYBE HOW MANY ROUNDS

                    WERE FIRED IN EACH STUDY, DID THEY FIND ANY DEFICIENCIES.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 DO WE KNOW IF THERE -- AS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THAT I JUST

                    WANT TO ADD THIS QUESTION TO THAT.  DO WE KNOW IF THERE'S A NUMBER OF

                    ROUNDS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE FIRED TO DETERMINE THAT THEY ARE

                    ACCURATELY OBTAINING THE MICROSTAMPED NUMBER?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, THERE HAVE BEEN MANY

                    PEER-REVIEWED STUDIES THAT HAVE FOUND THAT MICROSTAMPED-EQUIPPED

                    FIREARMS ACCURATELY MARKED THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS FIRED ACROSS A VARIETY

                    OF DIFFERENT FIREARM MODELS, AND THAT THE MICROSTAMPED CODES WERE

                    LEGIBLE ON OVER 90 PERCENT OF CARTRIDGE CASES TESTED.

                                 MR. REILLY:  CAN YOU TELL ME WHO DO THAT STUDY?

                    WAS THAT THE MANUFACTURER OF THE MICROSTAMPING?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  NO, THESE ARE PEER REVIEW

                    STUDIES.  I CAN GET YOU WHO THE AUTHOR WAS AT A LATER DATE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO PEER-REVIEWED MICROSTAMPING

                    ANALYSIS.  DO WE KNOW HOW MANY MICROSTAMPING EXPERTS THERE MAY BE

                                         74



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    IN THE WORLD?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I FAIL TO SEE THE RELEVANCE OF

                    THAT.  WE HAVE TASKED DCJS WITH DETERMINING THE VIABILITY OF THIS

                    TECHNOLOGY.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  SO THE REASON WHY I ASKED

                    THAT, I'M GOING TO TIE THIS INTO DRUG RECOGNITION EXPERTS THAT DO DWI

                    AND DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE.  I TALKED ABOUT THAT TREMENDOUSLY

                    DURING A DEBATE SEVERAL YEARS AGO, AND THE REASON WHY I BRING THAT UP

                    IS BECAUSE DRUG RECOGNITION EXPERTS HAVE A SPECIAL TALENT AND TRAINING

                    TO TESTIFY IN COURT ABOUT HOW THEY OBTAIN THAT INFORMATION.  IT COSTS

                    ROUGHLY $60,000 TO TRAIN EACH DRUG RECOGNITION EXPERT.  TO PUT THAT

                    INTO PERSPECTIVE, THE NYPD THAT HAS 35,000 POLICE OFFICERS HAVE 16

                    DRES.  THE REASON WHY I TIE THAT IN IS IF WE ARE GOING TO USE EXPERTS TO

                    TESTIFY IN COURT BASED ON MICROSTAMPING, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO BE

                    CERTIFIED AS EXPERTS IN THE COURT OF LAW IF WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH

                    EXPERTS ACROSS THE NATION OR THE WORLD TO -- TO -- TO GIVE THAT TRAINING

                    AND TO CERTIFY THOSE OFFICERS?  THAT'S WHERE WE COME INTO A CONFLICT OF

                    IF WE EVEN HAVE MICROSTAMPING, HOW CAN WE PROVE IT?  BECAUSE LET'S

                    FACE IT, THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE LIKE CSI WHERE WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE A

                    CRIME IN 40 MINUTES.  WE NEED TO HAVE THE FUNDING.  SO IS THERE

                    FUNDING IN THIS BILL FOR THAT TRAINING?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THIS BILL DOES NOT HAVE FUNDING

                    ATTACHED TO IT.

                                 MR. REILLY:  I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  I SAID THIS BILL DOES NOT HAVE

                                         75



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    FUNDING ATTACHED TO IT.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  SO GETTING BACK TO THAT

                    QUESTION ABOUT HOW MANY EXPERTS WE HAVE IN MICROSTAMPING ACROSS

                    THE COUNTRY, DO WE KNOW HOW MANY AND HOW MANY ACTUALLY DID THE

                    PEER REVIEW OF THAT STUDY?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW, THERE -- THERE IS A

                    COMPANY CALLED TACLABS, AND IN 2018 IT BEGAN DEVELOPING A

                    MACHINE TO PRODUCE LARGE NUMBERS OF FIRING PINS EQUIPPED WITH

                    MICROSTAMPING TECHNOLOGY AND THE TOOL WAS INTRODUCED TO THE MARKET

                    FOR FIREARM MANUFACTURERS.  FIREARM MANUFACTURERS NOW HAVE

                    MACHINES AVAILABLE TO DO EXACTLY WHAT THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THEM TO

                    DO.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO THE COMPANY THAT DID THE STUDY,

                    WAS THAT SOMEONE WHO INVENTED OR MAYBE SELLS MICROSTAMPING

                    EQUIPMENT?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION?

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO, THE COMPANY THAT DID THAT STUDY IN

                    2018 --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  WELL, IT'S TACLABS WHICH

                    DEVELOPS A MACHINE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO THEY -- SO TACLABS, WHO -- WHO

                    WE'RE BASING OUR STUDY INFORMATION ON AND DATA OF 90 PERCENT ACCURACY

                    ARE THE ONES THAT MAKE THE MACHINES AND SELL THEM TO THE GUN

                    MANUFACTURERS?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YOU KNOW I THINK YOU'RE TRYING

                                         76



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO IMPUNE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP THIS COUNTRY GET A HANDLE

                    ON GUN VIOLENCE BY QUESTIONING HOW MANY PEOPLE THERE ARE.  THERE ARE

                    PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERT ON THIS.  THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE VERIFIED.

                    THERE ARE PEER STUDIES THAT ALL SHOW THAT MICROSTAMPING TECHNOLOGY

                    WORKS.  YOU CAN FIRE THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS, AND YOU

                    COULD STILL TRACE -- EVEN WITH PARTIAL OF THE ALPHANUMERIC CODE ON THE

                    CASING YOU CAN STILL TRACE IT BACK.  SO I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE TAKE

                    COMFORT IN THAT KNOWLEDGE BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS HERE.

                    WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO TEAR APART TOOLS THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT HAVE ASKED

                    FOR.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO I -- I AGREE WITH YOU 100 PERCENT

                    THAT WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO TIE AND TAKE AWAY TOOLS THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT

                    HAVE, BUT UNFORTUNATELY -- YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA -- MR. SPEAKER, ON THE

                    BILL, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO IT IS IRONIC THAT WE JUST TALKED

                    ABOUT TAKING AWAY TOOLS FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT TO COMBAT GUN

                    VIOLENCE.  I STAND UP HERE EVERY DAY TALKING ABOUT THE THINGS THAT WE

                    WRITE IN THIS LEGISLATION THAT DOES NOT TRANSITION TO THE STREET THE WAY IT'S

                    SUPPOSED TO.  SIXTEEN AND 17-YEAR-OLDS, WE HEARD ABOUT IT EARLIER, I'VE

                    TALKED ABOUT AD NAUSEAM.  WE TALKED ABOUT IT JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO

                    ABOUT SELLING GUNS.  THE PRESUMPTION, THREE FIREARMS.  I GAVE A NICE

                    LITTLE SCENARIO TO EVERYBODY IN THIS CHAMBER.  SIXTEEN AND 17-YEAR-OLDS

                    WITH THREE FIREARMS.  IF HE HAS THEM IN HIS BACKPACK IT SHOULD BE

                    AUTOMATICALLY A PRESUMPTION THAT THEY'RE FOR SALE NOW AND HE SHOULD GO

                                         77



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO CRIMINAL COURT.  BUT NO, HE GOES TO FAMILY COURT.  BECAUSE A TOOL WAS

                    TAKEN AWAY FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHICH INCLUDES PROSECUTORS AND

                    NOW IT GOES TO FAMILY COURT.  WE SEE 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLDS LIGHTING UP

                    OUR STREETS.  IT'S IN THE NEWS EVERY OTHER DAY ACROSS OUR STATE, AND WE

                    HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO FIX THAT.  I BEGGED YOU TO FIX THAT.  THE STUFF

                    WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY, MICROSTAMPING, THE TECHNOLOGY'S NOT THERE.

                    I SAID IT BEFORE.  IT'S NOT CSI.  THIS ISN'T A CBS SHOW.  WE'RE NOT GOING

                    TO SOLVE IT IN 40 MINUTES.  I ASKED SPECIFICALLY, DO WE HAVE CASE STUDIES

                    OF ACTUAL CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED AND SOLVED WITH MICROSTAMPING.

                    WE DO NOT.  WE DO NOT.  SO WHAT THAT TELLS ME IS WE CANNOT HAVE THE

                    EXPERTS TO TESTIFY IN COURT TO ACTUALLY PROVE THAT CASE.  THE STUDY YOU

                    JUST HEARD ABOUT IN 2018 IS DONE BY THE MANUFACTURER OF THE

                    MICROSTAMPING MACHINE.  A REAL PEER REVIEW?  MAYBE THE STATE SHOULD

                    HAVE BOUGHT A MICROSTAMPING MACHINE AND ACTUALLY DID THE TEST

                    THEMSELVES AND NOT RELY ON SOMEONE THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY GET A BID TO

                    IMPLEMENT THAT.  I HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF TRYING TO PUSH AWAY THE ISSUE

                    TO SOMETHING ELSE JUST IN THIS DEBATE.  I'M NOT DOING THAT.  I'M TRYING TO

                    RAISE THE ISSUES THAT WE CAN DO TO FIX THINGS THAT WE SEND FROM THIS

                    LEGISLATURE.  THAT'S ALL I EVER DO HERE IS TRY AND IMPROVE IT, TRY AND

                    MAKE IT WORK BETTER.  BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU, THE YEARS THAT I SPENT ON

                    THE STREETS IN NEW YORK PATROLLING, I WANTED THE LEGISLATURE TO DO THE

                    RIGHT THING AND HELP ME PROTECT OUR STREETS.  WE'VE GONE WAY PAST THAT

                    NOW.  WE DON'T DO THAT.  WE ACTUALLY MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT.  BUT WE

                    DECIDE THAT WE'RE GOING TO PASS LEGISLATION TO FEEL GOOD.  LET'S STOP

                    WORRYING ABOUT FEELING GOOD AND ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH -- ACCOMPLISH

                                         78



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SOMETHING.  HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET OUR POLICE OFFICERS TRAINED AS

                    EXPERTS FOR THIS?  HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET THE LABS, THE TECHNICIANS, TO

                    BE CERTIFIED?  IT'S NOT EVEN ADDRESSED.  BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?  WE CAN

                    HIT OUR GREEN BUTTONS, WE CAN HIT OUR RED BUTTONS, WE CAN ALL WALK OUT

                    THE DOOR AND SAID WHY WE DID THAT, WHY WE DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT IT,

                    WHY WE WANT TO SUPPORT IT.  BUT WE ACTUALLY COULD MAYBE GET TO A

                    PLACE WHERE WHAT WE PUT ON PAPER REALLY TURNS OUT TO DO THE THINGS IT'S

                    SUPPOSED TO ON THE STREET, IN THE COURTROOM.  BUT UNTIL THAT DAY I'M

                    GOING TO STAND UP HERE EVERY TIME WE DISCUSS THESE THINGS, BECAUSE

                    THERE IS A TIME THAT I HOPE WE WILL COME TO WHERE WE'LL BE ABLE TO HAVE

                    THESE DISCUSSIONS AND FIX THE NECESSARY CHANGES.  BUT UNTIL THAT DAY,

                    THIS IS MERELY FLUFF.  SO HOPEFULLY YOU'LL ALL JOIN ME ONE DAY AND SAY,

                    LISTEN, I THINK WE CAN FIX THIS.  I THINK WE CAN ACTUALLY ADD SOME

                    SUBSTANCE INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT A PRESS RELEASE.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1,

                    2023.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7926-A.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                                         79



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION.  THOSE WHO

                    SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY VOTE YES HERE ON THE FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE

                    MINORITY LEADER.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE IN FAVOR OF THIS

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES

                    WHO WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT

                    THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND THEIR VOTE WILL BE PROBABLY RECORDED.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE, MR. ENGLEBRIGHT.

                                 MR. ENGLEBRIGHT:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  SO,

                    I JUST WANT TO COMPLIMENT THE SPONSOR.  I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT BILL

                    AND WE NEED TO, I THINK, PLACE IT IN PERSPECTIVE AS WE PREPARE TO VOTE.

                    THIS IS REALLY ABOUT TRACE EVIDENCE.  A MICROSTAMP IS SIMPLY A MARK,

                    AND WHEN METAL HITS METAL, WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A GUN IS FIRED,

                    THERE IS A MARK MADE.  THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVE ANONYMOUS MARKS

                    BEING MADE NOW BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE FIRING PINS MAKE THE SAME MARK.

                    YOU CAN GO INTO A FORENSICS STORAGE FACILITY AND MOST POLICE STATIONS

                    AND THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF SHELL CASES THAT HAVE BEEN PICKED UP FROM

                    CRIME SCENES, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE MARK THEY'RE ALL THE SAME.  WHAT

                                         80



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THIS BILL IS ATTEMPTING TO DO IS PROVIDE ANOTHER TOOL.  WE HAVE TRACE

                    EVIDENCE TOOLS THAT ARE WELL-KNOWN; FINGERPRINTS, SHOE PRINTS, BLOOD

                    TYPE, BLOOD SPATTER.  THESE ARE ALL TOOLS.  BITE MARK PATTERNS,

                    FINGERPRINTS.  AND YES, WE SHOULD HAVE UNIQUE MARKS BEING MADE.  IT

                    DOESN'T COST -- THE COST IS SO TRIVIAL THAT IT'S RIDICULOUS.  AND TO SAY THAT

                    THIS IS NOT A TECHNOLOGY THAT IS AVAILABLE IS RIDICULOUS.  WHEN METAL HITS

                    METAL IT MAKES A MARK, AND IF YOU FILE IT YOU MAKE A NEW UNIQUE MARK.

                                 I VOTE YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ENGLEBRIGHT IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THANK YOU.  I WANT TO DISPEL SOME OF

                    THE ODD MYTHS THAT HAVE BEEN ADVANCED.  I'M GOING TO ADDRESS JUST FOUR

                    OF THEM.  IT'S NOT MEXICAN GUNS COMING OVER THE MEXICAN BORDER THAT

                    ARE KILLING OUR CHILDREN, IT'S AMERICAN GUNS SMUGGLED OVER THE

                    MEXICAN BORDER THAT ARE KILLING MEXICANS.  SECONDLY, THE FIRING PIN IS

                    NOT GOING TO LAST MORE THAN 1,000 ROUNDS OR SO.  I NEVER THOUGHT I'D GET

                    TO RELY ON THIS REFERENCE POINT, BUT CONSIDER WHAT CLEMENZA TOLD

                    MICHAEL IN THE GODFATHER.  LEAVE THE GUN, TAKE THE CANNOLI.

                    CRIMINALS DON'T WANT TO GET CAUGHT WITH THE GUNS.  DAMN, THAT WAS

                    GOOD.  CERTAINLY.  WHY DIDN'T THIS HAPPEN 20 YEARS AGO?  YOU'RE TELLING

                    ME AMERICANS WE'RE NOT AS CRAZY 20 YEARS AGO AS WE ARE TODAY?  I

                    DOUBT THAT VERY MUCH.  TWENTY YEARS AGO WAS THE BEFORE THE

                    PROLIFERATION AND THE MARKETING OF TACTICAL WEAPONS IN THE UNITED

                    STATES, ROMANTICIZING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE YOUNG AND PEOPLE WHO DO

                                         81



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HAVE PROBLEMS HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR THEM TO STICK UP FOR THEIR RIGHTS

                    AND GET EVEN BY HAVING THE ABILITY TO FIRE MANY ROUNDS AT THE SAME

                    TIME.  COST?  I WILL GUARANTEE YOU ANY COST ASSOCIATED WITH

                    MICROSTAMPING IS GOING TO COST A WHOLE A LOT LESS THAN IT COSTS TO BURY A

                    CHILD.

                                 I'M PLEASED TO REPORT THAT JUST MOMENTS AGO, 1,700

                    STUDENTS AT PLAINVIEW-OLD BETHPAGE HIGH SCHOOL ON LONG ISLAND

                    MARCHED OUT OF THEIR SCHOOL AND STOOD FOR 21 MINUTES.  TWENTY-ONE

                    MINUTES, ONE MINUTE FOR EACH OF OUR AMERICANS DEAD IN UVALDE.  WHAT

                    WE ARE DOING WITH THESE BILLS IS WE ARE TRYING OUR BEST TO CHANGE THE

                    GUN FETISH CULTURE IN THE UNITED STATES.  AND IF ANYONE BELIEVES WE

                    DON'T HAVE A GUN FETISH CULTURE THEY COULD HAVE LISTENED TO SOME OF THE

                    ARGUMENTS, THE PASSIONATE, HYPER-PASSIONATE ARGUMENTS MADE.

                                 (BUZZER SOUNDS)

                                 LET'S DO WHAT WE CAN TO PROTECT ALL OF OUR CHILDREN.  I

                    VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAVINE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. ANGELINO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                    WE SPENT ABOUT TWO HOURS HERE DEBATING THIS TECHNOLOGY.  I'VE OFFERED

                    SOME TIPS ON HOW DO IT BETTER.  THIS IS LIKELY GOING TO COST MILLIONS OF

                    DOLLARS TO MANUFACTURES, PURCHASERS.  AND ALL OF THESE LAW-ABIDING

                    CITIZENS AND GUN MANUFACTURERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ADAPT TO THIS

                    TECHNOLOGY.  AGAIN, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, TWO HOURS OF DEBATE.  AND AS I

                                         82



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SAID EARLIER, CRIMINALS DON'T WANT TO GET CAUGHT, AND ALL OF THE EFFORT

                    WE'VE PUT INTO THIS BILL CAN BE DEFEATED BY A CRIMINAL PICKING UP HIS

                    BRASS AND LEAVING THE SCENE.  OR IF HE'S A REALLY CUNNING CRIMINAL HE'LL

                    PICK UP HIS BRASS AND HE'LL THROW DOWN SOMEBODY ELSE'S BRASS.

                                 SO, DON'T THINK THOSE THINGS DON'T HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY

                    DON'T WANT TO GET CAUGHT, AND FOR THOSE REASONS AND MANY, MANY OTHERS

                    I WILL BE VOTING NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ANGELINO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. WALCZYK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. WALCZYK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  MY

                    INTENT IS TO RISE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE IN A WAY THAT MAY ASSIST MEMBERS

                    OF THIS BODY IN REMEMBERING THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY AS I CAST THIS

                    VOTE HERE TODAY AND TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE

                    UNITED STATES THAT YOU RAISED YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SWORE TO DO.  THIS

                    BILL REQUIRES PISTOLS SOLD IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO BE

                    MICROSTAMPING-ENABLED.  IT ESTABLISHES FINES FOR VIOLATIONS AND

                    REQUIRES THE DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICES TO CERTIFY A

                    TECHNOLOGY THAT DOESN'T YET EXIST.  WE HAVE A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THIS, IF

                    YOU REMEMBER BACK, THE COMBINED BALLISTICS IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM

                    RAN FOR A LITTLE WHILE.  THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FINGERPRINT ON THE

                    ROUNDS THAT WENT OUT OF EVERY ROUND.  THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE

                    WASTED MILLIONS OF MAN HOURS AND MILLIONS OF TAX DOLLARS TO SOLVE

                    EXACTLY ZERO CRIMES WITH THAT PROGRAM AND PREVENTED ZERO CRIMES WITH

                    THAT PROGRAM, AND HERE WE ARE TODAY ON A MADE-UP TECHNOLOGY IN ORDER

                                         83



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO TRY TO INSTITUTE THE SAME EXACT THING.  THE SECOND AMENDMENT OF

                    THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES THE OTHER NINE BILL OF RIGHTS.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, I VOTE NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. WALCZYK IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. SIMON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I WANT TO

                    COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THIS BILL, AND I WANT TO ALSO THANK OTHERS WHO

                    HAVE SPOKEN IN SUPPORT.  THE REALITY IS THAT WE HAVE LEARNED FROM

                    CALIFORNIA'S EXPERIENCE.  THAT IS WHAT SMART LEGISLATORS DO, THEY LEARN

                    AND THEY CRAFT BILLS THAT WILL ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES.  LAST SUNDAY, THE

                    NEW YORK TIMES REVIEW HAD -- THE FRONT COVER OF THE REVIEW SECTION

                    WAS 20 OR SO DATES OF MASS SHOOTINGS IN THIS COUNTRY.  AND THOSE 20 OR

                    SO DATES, FOLLOWING EACH ONE IT SAID, POLICE SAID THAT THE GUN OR THE

                    WEAPON WAS LEGALLY PURCHASED.  SO THE REALITY IS, THESE ARE NOT STOLEN

                    WEAPONS.  EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE MASS SHOOTINGS, SOMEBODY BOUGHT

                    THAT GUN LEGALLY.  THEY USED IT FOR AN ILLEGAL PURPOSE, BUT THEY BOUGHT IT

                    LEGALLY.  SO THIS NONSENSE THAT SOMEHOW OR OTHER IT'S JUST CRIMINALS AND

                    THEY DON'T BUY GUNS LEGALLY AND IT'S ALL LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS THAT HAVE

                    GUNS AND THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO HAVE GUNS, THAT IS JUST NOT TRUE.

                    AND I POINT OUT THAT ONE REASON WE HAVE HAD A PROLIFERATION OF MASS

                    SHOOTINGS IN THE LAST 18 YEARS, AND I SAY 18 YEARS BECAUSE THE ASSAULT

                    WEAPONS BAN WAS NOT REAUTHORIZED IN 2004.  AND IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR

                    A REASON, IT'S NOT MENTAL ILLNESS, WHICH HAS BEEN WITH US SINCE TIME AND

                    MEMORIAL, IT'S THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN EXPIRING.  THAT'S WHAT

                                         84



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PROMPTED THIS.  THAT AND THE ADDITIONAL TACTICAL EQUIPMENT AND

                    FOSTERED AND ENGENDERED THIS LOVE OF GREATER AND GREATER FIRE POWER.

                    THESE GUNS -- THESE -- THESE WEAPONS WERE MADE TO KILL PEOPLE, AND AS

                    MANY AS POSSIBLE.  THAT'S WHAT HAS HAPPENED.  WE NEED TO USE EVERY

                    PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY TO DRIVE THE DEMAND TO DRIVE BETTER TECHNOLOGY TO

                    ENSURE THAT WE'RE ABLE TO HELP LAW ENFORCEMENT AND HELP REDUCE CRIME

                    AND THE NUMBER OF UNNECESSARY DEATHS DUE TO FIREARMS IN THIS COUNTRY.

                                 I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SIMON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. LAWLER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I STARTED

                    TODAY'S SESSION BY INTRODUCING THE MOTHER OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS IN THE

                    PARKLAND SHOOTING.  SHE IS ADVOCATING FOR A BILL TO BE TAKEN UP IN THIS

                    BODY BEFORE WE LEAVE, WHOSE TECHNOLOGY ACTUALLY WORKS AND WOULD

                    ACTUALLY HELP PREVENT INNOCENT CHILDREN FROM BEING KILLED IN SCHOOLS BY

                    MAKING SURE THAT THE LAW ENFORCEMENT RESPONSE TIME IS AS QUICK AS

                    POSSIBLE.  FOR SOME BIZARRE REASON, THE STAFF IN THIS PLACE HAS BLOCKED

                    THIS BILL.  THAT BILL NEEDS TO COME UP FOR A VOTE.  THAT TECHNOLOGY

                    ACTUALLY WORKS.  AS WE'VE SEEN IN THIS DEBATE, THIS TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT

                    WORK.  THE SPONSOR COULD NOT VERIFY THE TECHNOLOGY AND, IN FACT, THE

                    BILL SAYS WE NEED DCJS TO CERTIFY OR NOT CERTIFY WHETHER THIS IS EVEN

                    POSSIBLE.  NUMEROUS EXAMPLES OF HOW THE MICROSTAMPING COULD BE

                    ELIMINATED.  NOT TO MENTION THE FACT, OBVIOUSLY, THAT GUNS CAN BE

                    TRANSPORTED ACROSS STATE LINES AND USED IN THE COMMISSION OF CRIMES,

                                         85



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AND NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLDS ARE USING GUNS TO

                    COMMIT CRIMES AND ARE BEING TREATED IN FAMILY COURT.  MY COLLEAGUE

                    FROM NASSAU TALKED ABOUT 21 MINUTES AND STUDENTS STANDING IN PROTEST

                    TO REMEMBER THE 21 LIVES LOST.  TWENTY-ONE MINUTES?  LET'S GET THE BILL

                    ON THE FLOOR IN 21 MINUTES AND PASS ALYSSA'S LAW TODAY.  WE DON'T

                    NEED TO WAIT ANY FURTHER.  WE CAN TAKE ACTION TO ACTUALLY HELP PREVENT

                    SENSELESS TRAGIC DEATHS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAWLER -- MR. --

                    STAY ON THE BILL, PLEASE.  NO ADVOCATING FOR OTHER BILLS WHILE YOU'RE ON

                    THIS ONE.  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I VOTE NO

                    ON THIS BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAWLER IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  OVER 30 PEOPLE KILLED THIS PAST WEEKEND IN NEW YORK CITY

                    AND CHICAGO, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ASSAULT RIFLES WERE USED IN THOSE

                    DEATHS?  ZERO.  ZERO.  I HEARD SOMEONE SAY THAT IT'S THE ASSAULT RIFLE

                    BAN, IF WE HAD THAT BACK ALL THESE DEATHS WOULD GO AWAY.  YOU'VE GOT

                    TO BE KIDDING ME.  PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS, PEOPLE WITH PROBLEMS, IF

                    THEY -- IF THERE'S AN ASSAULT RIFLE BAN, NUMBER ONE, THEY WON'T BUY OR

                    FIND AN ILLEGAL ONE OR THEY WON'T USE A DIFFERENT TYPE OF WEAPON?  THAT

                    THIS IS ALL GOING TO MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR?  THERE WILL BE NO MORE SCHOOL

                    SHOOTINGS?  YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.  THE LAST THING, WHAT

                                         86



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HAPPENS EVERY TIME -- GOING TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, EVERY TIME

                    THERE'S A SCHOOL SHOOTING, EVERY TIME THERE'S A MASS SHOOTING, EVERY

                    TIME THERE'S A MURDER OF SOME SORT, WHAT DO WE ALL DO?  WE ALL PRAY.

                    IRONIC THAT EVERY TIME SOMETHING HAPPENS WE ALL ASK FOR PRAYER, YET

                    WE'VE TAKEN PRAYER OUT OF SCHOOL.  KIDS CAN'T PRAY, TEACHERS CAN'T PRAY,

                    YOU CAN'T EVEN MENTION GOD IN SCHOOL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DIPIETRO, SAME

                    ADMISSION TO YOU AS TO MR. LAWLER.  THE BILL IS IN FRONT OF US.

                                 MR. DIPIETRO:  THIS IS PART OF THE BILL.  SO WITH THAT

                    I'LL BE VOTING NO AND URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ALSO BECAUSE THERE'S NO

                    EASY ANSWERS, BUT THIS IS NOT THE ANSWER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DIPIETRO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  THERE HAVE BEEN MORE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS THAN DAYS IN

                    THE YEAR 2022, AND THAT SHOULD MAKE EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS BODY

                    FURIOUS.  AND AFTER MASS SHOOTINGS WE RING OUR HANDS, WE SEND

                    THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS AND WE WONDER WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE TO

                    PREVENT THE KILLING.  SINCE SANDY HOOK WHEN 20 6- AND 7-YEAR-OLDS

                    AND SIX TEACHERS WERE MURDERED AND WE SAID, NEVER AGAIN, BUT DID

                    VERY LITTLE ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL TO CRACK DOWN ON GUNS, WE HAVE TAUGHT

                    OUR STUDENTS, PRE-K STUDENTS AS YOUNG AS FOUR TO HIDE UNDER THEIR DESKS

                    AND STAY QUIET IF A BAD PERSON WITH A GUN COMES INTO THEIR CLASSROOM.

                    TO HOLD -- TO HOLD THEIR CRIES IN IN THE HOPES THE GUN -- THE GUNMAN

                                         87



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WON'T HEAR THEM.  SCHOOL SHOOTINGS HAVE BECOME A FORGONE

                    CONCLUSION.  WE CAN'T PREVENT THEM, ONLY PREPARE FOR THEM.  AND AS

                    POLICYMAKERS WE CANNOT THROW UP OUR HANDS IN THE FACE OF SO MUCH

                    SENSELESS VIOLENCE AND BLAME UNLOCKED DOORS, VIDEO GAMES, EDUCATORS,

                    MENTAL ILLNESS FOR THE DEVASTATION AND VIOLENCE CAUSED BY THIS COUNTRY'S

                    OBSESSION WITH GUNS.  WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE ACTION.  ANYONE

                    WHO COULD WALK INTO A SCHOOL FILLED WITH INNOCENT BABIES AND START

                    SHOOTING INDISCRIMINANTLY AND WITHOUT PROVOCATION IS A MADMAN, BUT

                    MADMEN --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL --

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SIMILARLY TO THE

                    OTHERS, YOU HAVE A BILL IN FRONT YOU.  YOU NEED TO SPEAK TO THAT BILL.

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OKAY, I WILL DO THAT.  THANK

                    YOU.  WE NEED TO TIGHTEN OUR LAWS, ENSURE THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS

                    EVERY SINGLE TOOL AVAILABLE TO THEM TO PREVENT AND SOLVE GUN CRIMES TO

                    MAKE OUR STREETS SAFE FOR OUR CHILDREN, AND MICROSTAMPING, DESPITE

                    WHAT OTHERS PURPORT TO KNOW, IS AMONG ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL TOOLS

                    AVAILABLE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT.  IT IS AVAILABLE, IT'S AFFORDABLE, IT'S

                    EFFECTIVE AND IT WILL SAVE LIVES.  WE DESERVE TO LIVE WITHOUT THE FEAR OF

                    PREVENTABLE GUN VIOLENCE.

                                 (BUZZER SOUNDS)

                                 I WOULD LIKE TO THANK MOMS DEMAND ACTION, NEW

                    YORKERS AGAINST GUN VIOLENCE, BRADY CAMPAIGN AGAINST GUN

                    VIOLENCE, GIFFORDS LAW CENTER, EVERY TOWN FOR GUN SAFETY, OUR

                                         88



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    FORMER COLLEAGUE MICHELLE SCHIMEL FOR ADVOCACY FOR THIS.  AND IN

                    CONCLUSION, HISTRIONICS AND ANGRY PROCLAMATIONS CITING ALTERNATIVE FACTS

                    WILL NOT WORK.  OUR RESIDENTS KNOW --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL, HOW

                    DO YOU VOTE, PLEASE?

                                 MS. ROSENTHAL:  OUR RESIDENTS KNOW WHO IS

                    SHOWBOATING AND WHO WANTS TO DO SOMETHING, AND IN THAT VEIN I VOTE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROSENTHAL IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

                    PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUES MR. STIRPE AND MRS. GUNTHER IN THE

                    NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. GOODELL FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AFTER

                    THAT NICE SPIRITED DEBATE IT IS MY PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE SOME

                    DISTINGUISHED GUESTS, DANA PLATIN, WHO IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE NEW

                    YORK STATE PTA, AND HER SON TYLER.  THEY'RE MEMBERS OF THE NEW

                    YORK STATE PTA LEADERSHIP TEAM, AND THEY'RE IN OUR

                    ASSEMBLYMEMBER DOUG SMITH'S ASSEMBLY DISTRICT.  PRESIDENT PLATIN

                                         89



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AND MEMBERS FROM ACROSS THE STATE ARE HERE IN ALBANY CELEBRATING THE

                    125TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE NEW YORK STATE PTA WHICH, OF COURSE, HAS A

                    GREAT AND PROUD HISTORY SUPPORTING NEW YORK CHILDREN.  PRESIDENT

                    PLATIN IS ALSO A KINDERGARTEN SCHOOL-RELATED PROFESSIONAL IN THE SACHEM

                    SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND IT IS MY GREAT HONOR TO INTRODUCE THE PRESIDENT OF

                    THE NEW YORK STATE PTA ASSOCIATION HERE VISITING US ON THIS

                    AUSPICIOUS 125TH ANNIVERSARY.  PLEASE EXTEND THE CORDIALITIES OF THE

                    HOUSE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MR. GOODELL, MR. SMITH, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE

                    WELCOME YOU ALL HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE EXTEND TO

                    YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR, HOPE THAT YOU'VE ENJOYED YOUR TIME

                    WITH US.  HOPE YOU ENJOYED THAT SPIRITED DEBATE THAT GOES ON IN THE

                    NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  KNOW THAT YOUR GOVERNMENT WILL FIGHT FOR

                    ITS -- ITS VARIOUS CONCERNS AND ALLOWS AN OPEN AND FREE DISCUSSION OF

                    ISSUES.  YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF THAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT DEMOCRACY IS

                    ABOUT.  AND FOR YOU, FOR THE -- AS ALL PART OF THE PTAS, I WANT TO THANK

                    YOU FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO TO ENSURE THAT YOUR SCHOOLS WORK AND THAT

                    YOUR SCHOOLS HAVE PARENTS INVOLVED WITH TEACHERS IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT

                    INSTITUTION WORK BETTER.  THANK YOU AGAIN VERY MUCH.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES,

                    THERE WILL BE AN IMMEDIATE MEETING OF THE WAYS AND MEANS

                    COMMITTEE OFF THE FLOOR.  THOSE WHO ARE IN THEIR OFFICES REMOTELY CAN

                                         90



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    JUST STAY THERE.  YOU WILL BE SWITCHED TO THE ROOM.  THOSE WHO ARE IN

                    THE CHAMBER WITH US CAN GO TO ROOM 30.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  WAYS AND MEANS --

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THOSE WHO ARE IN THE

                    ROOM WITH US CAN GO TO ROOM 345 WHERE THE WAYS AND MEANS

                    MEETING WILL BE HELD.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ROOM 345 FOR THOSE

                    OF YOU ARE HERE IN THE CHAMBER.

                                 ON THE A-CALENDAR, PAGE 3, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    TITLE OF THE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  RULES AT THE REQUEST OF MR.


                    ZEBROWSKI, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 953.

                                 CONCURRENT RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE AND ASSEMBLY

                    CONCERNING THE RESCISSION OF ALL PREVIOUS REQUESTS BY THE NEW YORK

                    STATE LEGISLATURE OR EITHER HOUSE THEREOF FOR A CONVENTION UNDER

                    ARTICLE V OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE RESOLUTION IS LAID

                    ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00146-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 515, GOTTFRIED, SIMON, MORINELLO, CAHILL, J.M. GIGLIO,

                    COLTON, THIELE, ENGLEBRIGHT, COOK, GUNTHER, MCDONOUGH, DINOWITZ,

                    PEOPLES-STOKES, STECK, GOODELL, L. ROSENTHAL, QUART, KIM, PALMESANO,

                    ABINANTI, RA, DIPIETRO, HYNDMAN, JEAN-PIERRE, BENEDETTO, GALEF,

                    WEPRIN, WILLIAMS, LAVINE, WOERNER, DICKENS, BRONSON, NIOU, CUSICK,

                    NORRIS, CARROLL, SOLAGES, SEAWRIGHT, ZEBROWSKI, TAYLOR, SAYEGH,

                                         91



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SALKA, MCDONALD.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, THE TAX

                    LAW AND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO SUPPORT OF LIVING

                    ORGAN DONATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    GOTTFRIED, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT APRIL 1ST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 1594.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. PALMESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I JUST

                    WANT TO TAKE A MINUTE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE AND THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

                    BRINGING UP THIS LEGISLATION.  HE'S CERTAINLY BEEN A LEADER ON THE ISSUE

                    OF ORGAN DONATION OVER THE YEARS AND DURING HIS CAREER AND I APPRECIATE

                    HIS LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE ESPECIALLY.  AND I JUST WANT TO REMIND MY

                    COLLEAGUES, IT'S LEGISLATION LIKE THIS THAT HELPS US IMPROVE OUR NUMBERS

                    REGARDING ORGAN DONATION AND INCREASE OUR NUMBERS.  WE'VE MADE A LOT

                    OF PROGRESS OVER THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS BUT WE STILL HAVE A LONG WAY

                    TO GO.  AND JUST TO REMIND YOU HOW FAR WE HAVE TO GO, RIGHT NOW STILL IN

                    NEW YORK WE HAVE 8,500 NEW YORKERS WAITING FOR AN ORGAN

                    TRANSPLANT.  THIRTEEN HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR MORE THAN FIVE YEARS.  LAST

                    YEAR IN 2021 WE LOST 450 MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN WAITING FOR A

                                         92



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    LIFESAVING ORGAN TRANSPLANT.  RIGHT NOW IN NEW YORK OUR ORGAN DONOR

                    REGISTRATION RATE IS 45 PERCENT, THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS 62 PERCENT.

                    THERE ARE 52 REGISTRIES ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.  NEW YORK IS NUMBER 50

                    OUT OF 52.  WE'RE ONLY AHEAD OF NEW JERSEY AND PUERTO RICO.  WE HAVE

                    THE THIRD-HIGHEST NEED FOR ORGAN DONORS, THE THIRD-WORST REGISTRY.  SO

                    WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.  THERE'S MUCH MORE WE CAN DO.  WE SHOULD

                    BE LOOKING AT LEGISLATION LIKE THIS THAT CAN INCREASE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR

                    PEOPLE TO SAY YES.  WE SHOULD BE PUTTING IT ON OUR TAX FORMS, ON PUBLIC

                    ASSISTANCE FORMS, COLLEGE APPLICATIONS, ASKING PEOPLE IF THEY WANT TO BE

                    AN ORGAN DONOR.  BECAUSE I'M CONVINCED THAT IF WE GIVE THEM THE

                    CHANCE TO SAY YES THEY WILL SAY YES.  BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT STATISTIC

                    THAT WE ALL NEED TO KNOW IS THAT ONE PERSON DONATES AT THE TIME OF THEIR

                    DEATH CAN SAVE UP TO EIGHT LIVES AND IMPACT THE LIVES OF 75 OTHERS.  SO I

                    KNOW WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO TALK

                    ABOUT IT BECAUSE YOU'RE THINKING OF ONE'S DEATH.  BUT THINK OF IF YOUR

                    LOVED ONE, YOUR MOM OR DAD, BROTHER OR SISTER OR, GOD FORBID, YOUR SON

                    OR DAUGHTER WERE IN NEED OF A LIFESAVING ORGAN TRANSPLANT AND YOU SAW

                    THOSE STATISTICS NUMBERS I JUST LAID OUT HERE.  SO LET'S IMPROVE -- LET'S

                    CONTINUE TO IMPROVE THE ORGAN DONATION RATE.  THIS LEGISLATION IS

                    CERTAINLY A GREAT PIECE OF LEGISLATION TO HELP ENCOURAGE LIVING DONORS --

                    LIVING DONORS TO DO THOSE DONATIONS, HELP OUR MORE SUCCESSFUL AND

                    HAVE BETTER VIABILITY.  THERE'S -- AND I KNOW THERE'S DOCUMENTATION ON

                    THAT.

                                 SO AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HIS

                    LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE AND I ENCOURAGE ENTHUSIASTICALLY YOU TO VOTE

                                         93



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    YES ON THIS LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU, MR. -- MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MR. PALMESANO IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THANK YOU, MRS. SPEAKER.  THIS

                    IS PRESUMABLY NOT MY LAST BILL, I CERTAINLY HOPE NOT.  I'VE GOT A FEW

                    MORE.  BUT I THINK THIS IS PROBABLY A GOOD TIME TO SAY A FEW WORDS.

                    FIRST I WANT TO THANK ALL THE AMAZING STAFF WHO HAVE WORKED WITH ME

                    ALL THESE YEARS.  MY STAFF, PEOPLE ON OTHER STAFFS.  AND THANK YOU TO THE

                    SPEAKER HEASTIE AND THE FIVE SPEAKERS I HAVE SERVED WITH BEFORE HIM.

                    AND TO ALL OF YOU, MY COLLEAGUES, AND -- AND THOSE WHO HAVE COME

                    BEFORE YOU.  WE'VE DONE SOME PRETTY GREAT WORK TOGETHER.

                                 YOU KNOW, FROM TIME TO TIME SOME

                    ASSEMBLYMEMBERS THINK OF RUNNING FOR WHAT THEY CONSIDER HIGHER

                    OFFICE, AND THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE.  BUT I THINK WE ALREADY HOLD A PRETTY

                    HIGH OFFICE.  THE PUBLIC MAY THINK MOSTLY ABOUT CITY HALL OR

                    WASHINGTON, BUT MOST OF THE LAWS THAT AFFECT OUR LIVES COME FROM

                    ALBANY.  SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT SMART, HARDWORKING PEOPLE WITH

                    GOOD HEARTS BE COMMITTED TO THE ASSEMBLY.  IT DOES TAKE WORK AND

                    TIME TO LEARN HOW TO MAKE THIS PLACE -- THIS PLACE WORK TO ADVANCE

                    YOUR AGENDA.  AND CERTAINLY AFTER 52 YEARS I'M STILL LEARNING.  AND OUR

                    PROCESS IS CERTAINLY OFTEN FRUSTRATING, BUT IT'S WORTH THE TIME AND EFFORT.

                                 AND AS ROBERT KENNEDY SAID, THE FUTURE IS NOT A GIFT,

                    IT IS AN ACHIEVEMENT.  THANK YOU ALL.  AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                         94



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MRS. PEOPLES-

                    STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER

                    -- MADAM SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO HONOR

                    DICK GOTTFRIED AS WELL.  THERE'S NO ONE HERE NOW OR PROBABLY EVEN IN

                    THE PAST THAT SERVED UNDER FIVE SPEAKERS.  NOT ONE, NOT TWO, NOT THREE,

                    NOT FOUR, BUT FIVE SPEAKERS.  AND I REALLY THINK THAT WHAT HE HAS TO

                    OFFER IN TERMS OF HIS EXPERIENCE CAN BE HELPFUL TO US ALL.  AND SO IF WE

                    HAVE NOT HAD A CHANGE TO ENGAGE WITH HIM BEFORE HE LEAVES THE NEXT

                    COUPLE OF DAYS I'M JUST GOING TO INVITE YOU TO TRY AND DO THAT BECAUSE

                    RIGHT THERE IS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE THAT WE ALL ABSOLUTELY NEED.

                                 WITH THAT, I AM PLEASED TO VOTE IN SUPPORT OF HIS BILL.

                    AS YOU ALL KNOW, MY DAUGHTER WAS A DONOR RECIPIENT AND WE WERE

                    GRATEFUL WHEN SHE WAS ABLE TO RECEIVE THAT DONATION.  BUT IT IS SO MUCH

                    BETTER FOR PEOPLE TO GET HEALTHIER SO MUCH FASTER IF THERE'S MORE

                    AVAILABILITY OF DONATIONS.  AND SO I APPLAUD HIM FOR HIS LEGISLATION AND

                    I'M PERSONALLY, PERSONALLY GLAD TO VOTE YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MRS. PEOPLES-

                    STOKES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I

                    SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THIS BILL.  I CERTAINLY WANT TO SUPPORT IT.  BEING A

                    DONOR, A LIVING DONOR, IS A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO SAVE SOMEONE ELSE'S

                    LIFE.  MY DAUGHTER DONATED A KIDNEY TO A PERSON ABOUT THE SAME AGE.

                    THEY WERE ACQUAINTANCES.  SHE'S DONE FINE, HE'S DONE FINE, BUT IT'S

                                         95



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    REALLY A LIFE-CHANGING OPPORTUNITY, IF YOU WILL.  I TRIED TO DONATE A PIECE

                    OF LIVER TO A NEIGHBOR AND UNFORTUNATELY I WAS REJECTED.  I RECOVERED

                    FROM THAT REJECTION AND HE WENT ON TO GET A MUCH BETTER DONATION, ALSO

                    FROM A LIVING DONOR, AND IS LIVING A PRODUCTIVE LIFE FOR A YOUNG GUY

                    THAT, YOU KNOW, WAS IN HORRIFIC CONDITION COULD NOW BE HEALTHY AND

                    OUT ENJOYING LIFE.  SO WHAT A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY.

                                 AND I ALSO WANT TO EXTEND MY GREAT APPRECIATION TO

                    THE SPONSOR, MR. GOTTFRIED.  AS YOU KNOW, FROM TIME TO TIME I ASK

                    QUESTIONS OF MEMBERS, AND WHAT I PARTICULARLY APPRECIATE ABOUT MR.

                    GOTTFRIED IS I KNOW WHEN I'M ASKING QUESTIONS TO MR. GOTTFRIED HE

                    KNOWS MORE ABOUT THE SUBJECT THAN I DO.  AND THAT IS A GREAT BLESSING

                    TO EVERYONE IN THIS CHAMBER WHEN WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO TAKES THE

                    TIME AND THE EFFORT TO KNOW THEIR SUBJECT INSIDE OUT AND IS

                    COMPASSIONATE AND FULLY COMMITTED TO HELPING NEW YORK STATE

                    BECOME A BETTER STATE.  SO TO MR. GOTTFRIED, MY HAT'S OFF TO YOU.  THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MR. GOODELL IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 AND I WOULD ADD TO WHAT MR. GOODELL JUST SAID THAT

                    MR. GOTTFRIED HAS INDEED SET A VERY HIGH BAR FOR ALL OF US WHAT IT MEANS

                    TO BE AN EFFECTIVE MEMBER OF THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         96



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00911-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 516, JEAN-PIERRE, ENGLEBRIGHT, DICKENS, GRIFFIN, STIRPE, D.

                    ROSENTHAL, SMITH, DESTEFANO, MCDONOUGH, THIELE, RA, STERN,

                    GOTTFRIED, MONTESANO, WOERNER, B. MILLER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    NAVIGATION LAW AND THE PENAL LAW, IN RELATION TO OPERATING A VESSEL

                    WHILE INTOXICATED WHEN A CHILD WHO IS 15 YEARS OF AGE OR LESS IS A

                    PASSENGER IN SUCH VESSEL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 516, A.911 -- A.911 [SIC].  THIS IS

                    A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE

                    NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I JUST WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION AND I'M VERY PROUD TO BE A COSPONSOR OF IT.  THIS BASICALLY

                    TAKES LEANDRA'S LAW AND APPLIES IT TO THE WATER SO PEOPLE WHO BOAT

                    AND ARE UNDER THE INFLUENCE AND HAVE A CHILD ON BOARD ARE GOING TO

                    FACE STIFFER PENALTIES, AND I THINK THAT'S ONLY RIGHT.  THE AREA THAT I

                    REPRESENT INCLUDES AREAS OF THE GREAT SACANDAGA LAKE, BALLSTON LAKE

                                         97



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AND AREAS WHERE THERE -- WHERE THERE ARE BOATING ACCIDENTS AND WHERE

                    NOT EVERYBODY IS RESPONSIBLE IN THE WAY THAT THEY OPERATE THEIR -- THEIR

                    BOATS AND IT CAN CAUSE INJURIES TO OTHER PEOPLE.  I REALLY THINK THAT THIS

                    IS A VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                                 I COMMEND THE SPONSOR AND I'M THRILLED TO SUPPORT IT.

                    AND I CAN SEE FROM THE BOARD THAT IT HAS -- IT APPEARS TO BE UNANIMOUS

                    SUPPORT AND THAT'S AS IT SHOULD BE.  SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MS. WALSH IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD

                    YOU PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MS. MITAYNES IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS

                    ONE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  MS. MITAYNES IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A01023-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 517 WAS PREVIOUSLY AMENDED ON THIRD READING AND IS

                    HIGH.


                                 ASSEMBLY NO. A01773-C, RULES REPORT NO. 518,

                    PRETLOW.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RACING, PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING AND

                    BREEDING LAW, IN RELATION TO STATE GAMING COMMISSION OCCUPATIONAL

                    LICENSES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE BILL IS LAID

                                         98



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A02039-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 519, DILAN, HEVESI, D. ROSENTHAL, COOK, ABINANTI, REYES,

                    HYNDMAN, MCDONOUGH, WILLIAMS, GLICK, FERNANDEZ, COLTON, HUNTER,

                    DICKENS, TAYLOR, BRAUNSTEIN, SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO MODULAR CONSTRUCTION WORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON A MOTION BY

                    MR. DILAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03144-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 520, PRETLOW, DICKENS, REYES, MCMAHON, SIMON,

                    MAMDANI, SALKA, GALEF, FAHY, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    PUBLIC SERVICE LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING

                    THE ACCESSIBLE ELECTRONIC INFORMATION ACT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE -- THE CLERK

                    WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 520, A.3144 [SIC].  THIS IS A

                    FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE

                    IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                         99



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03801-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 521, ABINANTI, WEPRIN, WILLIAMS, CRUZ, SMULLEN, REILLY,

                    MCDONOUGH, EPSTEIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO ENACTING THE "TOLL PAYER PROTECTION ACT"; AND PROVIDING FOR

                    THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 521, A.3801 [SIC].  THIS IS A FAST

                    ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04535-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 522, COOK, HYNDMAN, VANEL, WALKER, JACKSON, DICKENS,

                    ANDERSON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    COMMUTER VAN AND AMBULETTE OR PARATRANSIT VEHICLES CLASSIFICATION

                    REVIEW.

                                         100



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 522, A.4535 [SIC].  THIS IS A FAST

                    ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  READ THE LAST SECTION --

                    OH, SORRY, ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04687-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 523, PEOPLES-STOKES, MEEKS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE OFFICE OF SPECIAL INVESTIGATION

                    INSPECTING SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURIES THAT MAY HAVE RESULTED IN DEATH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE -- LAID

                    ASIDE.  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05278-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 524, BARRETT, BURDICK, SOLAGES, GRIFFIN, OTIS.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    DISCHARGED LGBT VETERANS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                         101



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 524, A.5278 [SIC].  THIS IS A FAST

                    ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05304-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 525, MCDONALD.  AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE WILLIAM SCHUMAKER

                    AND MARK HENNESSY TO RECEIVE CERTAIN SERVICE CREDIT UNDER SECTION

                    384-D OF THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE HOME RULE

                    MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05337-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 526, MCDONALD, JONES, SANTABARBARA, LUPARDO, MORINELLO,

                    J.M. GIGLIO, ASHBY, DARLING, FAHY, JACOBSON, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE REAL PROPERTY ACTIONS AND PROCEEDINGS LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    AUTHORIZING SPECIAL PROCEEDINGS TO CONVEY TITLE TO ABANDONED

                    COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL REAL PROPERTY TO A CITY, TOWN OR VILLAGE; AND

                    PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE BILL IS LAID

                    ASIDE.

                                         102



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05623-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 527, THIELE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE -- TO PROVIDE PROCEDURES

                    RELATING TO THE ADOPTION AND SUBMISSION OF AN ANNUAL BUDGET BY THE

                    TRUSTEES OF THE FREEHOLDERS AND COMMONALTY OF THE TOWN OF

                    SOUTHAMPTON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON A MOTION BY

                    MR. THIELE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 527, SENATE BILL 5013 [SIC].  THIS

                    IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE

                    NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05860-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 528, REYES, WILLIAMS, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO THE PRICE GOUGING OF MEDICINE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON A MOTION BY

                    MS. REYES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                         103



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 528, SENATE BILL 3081 [SIC].  THIS

                    IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE

                    NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05926-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 529, RAMOS, THIELE, ENGLEBRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 635 OF THE LAWS OF 1987, ESTABLISHING THE OAK BRUSH PLAIN

                    STATE PRESERVE, LOCATED ON LONG ISLAND, IN RELATION TO THE ACQUISITION OF

                    LANDS PREVIOUSLY COMPRISING PILGRIM STATE HOSPITAL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  ON A MOTION BY

                    MR. RAMOS, THE BILL -- THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE

                    BILL IS ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON RULES REPORT NO. 529, SENATE BILL 6142 [SIC].  THIS

                    IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE

                    NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                                         104



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU

                    FOR THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A BRIEF INTERRUPTION OF OUR WORK ON THE FLOOR TO

                    INTRODUCE A GUEST OF OUR COLLEAGUE MR. GIBBS.  SHE IS NONE OTHER THAN

                    THE MOST RECENTLY-CROWNED MS. NEW YORK.  SHE WAS CROWNED ON

                    SUNDAY, APRIL THE 3RD, SHE'S A RESIDENT OF HARLEM, BORN IN WASHINGTON,

                    D.C., A HAITIAN IMMIGRANT.  MARIE CHARLES WAS EDUCATED IN BOTH HAITI

                    AND IN THE UNITED STATES.  SHE'S A GRADUATE OF THE ESTEEMED

                    MASSANUTTEN MILITARY ACADEMY WHERE SHE UPHOLDS THE VALUES AND

                    PRINCIPLES AND RESILIENCY AND MORAL RECTITUDE, LEVERAGING THESE ABILITIES

                    TO IMPROVE BOTH HERSELF AND OTHERS.  IN 2004 SHE PROUDLY GRADUATED

                    FROM BARUCH COLLEGE WITH A DEGREE IN BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU PLEASE WELCOME MS. NEW

                    YORK TO OUR CHAMBERS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES AND ASSEMBLYMEMBER GIBBS, WE WELCOME

                    YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  WE EXTEND TO YOU THE

                    PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  DELIGHTED THAT YOU WILL REPRESENT US AS A STATE.

                    I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE HOW WONDERFUL IT MUST BE TO BE CROWNED MS.

                                         105



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NEW YORK STATE.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR SHARING WITH US.  WE

                    WISH YOU ALL THE LUCK IN YOUR YEAR OF REIGN.  IT'S A YEAR, RIGHT?  YOU GET

                    A WHOLE YEAR?

                                 MS. MARIE CHARLES:  (INAUDIBLE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  OH, GOOD.  WELL, SO

                    WE -- WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOU DOING THAT AND REPRESENTING US.  THANK

                    YOU SO VERY MUCH AND YOU'RE ALWAYS WELCOME AND TO YOUR CROWN.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06150-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 530, SEPTIMO, MAMDANI, ANDERSON, FERNANDEZ, SIMON,

                    SILLITTI, EPSTEIN, GOTTFRIED, SOLAGES, FORREST, JACKSON, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS,

                    DARLING, L. ROSENTHAL, KELLES, SEAWRIGHT, THIELE, OTIS, FAHY,

                    ENGLEBRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO EMISSIONS OF TOXIC AIR CONTAMINANTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    SEPTIMO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06365-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 531, ABBATE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

                    SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO ACCIDENTAL DISABILITY RETIREMENT FOR

                    UNIFORMED COURT OFFICERS AND PEACE OFFICERS EMPLOYED IN THE UNIFIED

                    COURT SYSTEM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    ABBATE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                                         106



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8399.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO JUST

                    BRIEFLY EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  AS MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES KNOW, I'VE BEEN

                    AN ATTORNEY FOR 30 YEARS AND I HAVE PRACTICED A LOT IN VARIOUS COURTS IN

                    MOSTLY SARATOGA COUNTY.  AND I'VE HAD A CHANCE OVER THAT TIME TO GET

                    TO KNOW A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNIFORMED COURT OFFICERS IN THE

                    COURT SYSTEM.  AND I REALLY DO SUPPORT THIS BILL.  I -- I'M NOT ALWAYS

                    COMPLETELY ON BOARD WITH EVERYTHING THAT THE SPONSOR HAS IN TERMS OF

                    RETIREMENT SYSTEM CHANGES.  THIS ONE I REALLY DO SUPPORT.  I THINK THAT

                    THIS BILL PROVIDES A PRESUMPTION THAT THE UNIFORMED COURT OFFICERS AND

                    PEACE OFFICERS IN THE UNIFORM [SIC] COURT SYSTEM THAT ARE INJURED AS A

                    RESULT OF PHYSICAL ASSAULT BY AN ASSAILANT, SUFFERED IN-SERVICE WILL BE

                    ENTITLED TO ACCIDENTAL DISABILITY RETIREMENT IN MOST INSTANCES.  AND I

                    WILL SAY THAT PARTICULARLY IN FAMILY COURT THAT HAPPENS.  THAT -- THAT

                    HAPPENS.  THEY -- THEY HAVE PROTECTED ME PERSONALLY ON A NUMBER OF

                    OCCASIONS.  IT'S GETTING INCREASINGLY MORE OUT OF HAND AND -- AND

                    VIOLENT AND WITHOUT THEIR ASSISTANCE WE WOULD ALL BE IN A LOT OF TROUBLE.

                                         107



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SO THEY DO BECOME INJURED IN THE -- IN THE CAUSE OF PROTECTING THE REST

                    OF US.

                                 I THINK THAT THIS IS A FAIR AND JUST PIECE OF LEGISLATION

                    AND I'M VERY HAPPY TO -- TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND TO JUST THANK

                    THEM FOR THEIR SERVICE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALSH IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK.

                                 MR. FITZPATRICK:  YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    JUST TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF THESE BILLS AT

                    THIS TIME OF YEAR, AND IT IS A GREAT BENEFIT TO HAVE.  HOWEVER, IT CAN BE

                    AND WILL MORE THAN LIKELY BE VERY EXPENSIVE AND, THEREFORE, IT IS NOT

                    UNFAIR OR UNREASONABLE TO ASK THAT THIS BE NEGOTIATED AT THE BARGAINING

                    TABLE RATHER THAN GO THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE.  THAT IS WHAT COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING IS FOR.  IT NEEDS TO BE USED IN INSTANCES LIKE THIS.  AND,

                    AGAIN, THIS SHOULD NOT GO THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE AND BE MANDATED ON

                    THE TAXPAYERS.  IT SHOULD BE A NEGOTIATED ITEM WHERE THE OTHER SIDE IS

                    ASKED TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE TABLE TO HELP OFFSET THE POTENTIALLY

                    TREMENDOUS COST OF THIS.

                                 WITH THAT SAID, WE ADMIRE WHAT THEY DO, WE RESPECT

                    THEM GREATLY.  BUT THESE TYPES OF BENEFITS SHOULD BE NEGOTIATED THROUGH

                    COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.  THANK YOU, AND I VOTE NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. FITZPATRICK IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                         108



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A06724, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 532, ENGLEBRIGHT, OTIS, THIELE, L. ROSENTHAL, AUBRY, COOK,

                    MONTESANO, DESTEFANO, JEAN-PIERRE, NIOU, STECK, SIMON, GALLAGHER,

                    DICKENS, DINOWITZ, ABINANTI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE NOT-FOR-PROFIT

                    CORPORATION LAW AND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE DISCOVERY

                    AND DISPOSAL OF HUMAN REMAINS AND FUNERARY OBJECTS; AND TO AMEND THE

                    PARKS, RECREATION AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    REQUIRING CERTAIN NOTICE AND CONSULTATION PRIOR TO THE UNDERTAKING OF

                    CERTAIN PROJECTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    ENGLEBRIGHT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 5701.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                         109



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER,

                    FOR ALLOWING ME TO INTERRUPT THESE PROCEEDINGS ON BEHALF OF OUR

                    COLLEAGUE ASSEMBLYWOMAN JODI GIGLIO, WHO HAS AN INTRODUCTION THAT

                    I'M GOING TO MAKE FOR HER.  JOINING WITH US TODAY IN THE CHAMBER ARE

                    TWO ESTEEMED GUESTS, MANNY VILAR, THE RETIRING PRESIDENT OF THE PBA

                    OF NEW YORK STATE, AND ALSO DIXON PALMER, THE VICE PRESIDENT OF

                    POLICE CONFERENCE FOR NEW YORK STATE.

                                 WOULD YOU PLEASE, MR. SPEAKER, OFFER THE CORDIALITIES

                    OF THE HOUSE TO THESE TWO VISITORS TO OUR CHAMBER?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.  ON BEHALF

                    OF MS. WALSH, MS. GIGLIO, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, SIR, WE

                    WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU THE

                    PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.  THANK YOU FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO TO ENSURE

                    AND KEEP OUR PUBLIC SERVICE EMPLOYEES WELL AND TAKEN CARE OF.

                    CONTINUE THAT GREAT WORK.  KNOW THAT YOU WILL ALWAYS BE WELCOME

                    HERE.  THANK YOU.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07006-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 533, FAHY, LUPARDO, MAGNARELLI, GLICK, GOTTFRIED,

                    BRONSON, L. ROSENTHAL, STECK, MCDONALD, DICKENS, REYES, SIMON,

                    GUNTHER, SEAWRIGHT, PHEFFER AMATO, NIOU, COLTON, GRIFFIN, FALL, GALEF,

                    ZINERMAN, BURKE, HUNTER, WOERNER, J. RIVERA, MAMDANI, JACKSON,

                    FORREST, THIELE, B. MILLER, CLARK, HEVESI, BLANKENBUSH, JEAN-PIERRE,

                    KIM, WALLACE, CARROLL, LUNSFORD, BURDICK, GALLAGHER, JACOBSON,

                                         110



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BURGOS, GIBBS, KELLES, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, ZEBROWSKI, ENGLEBRIGHT,

                    STERN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    SALE OF DIGITAL ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT AND PROVIDING DIAGNOSTIC AND

                    REPAIR INFORMATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07079-C,

                    RULES REPORT NO. 534, BURDICK, THIELE, DICKENS, GUNTHER, FERNANDEZ,

                    OTIS, CLARK, JACKSON, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, KELLES, EPSTEIN, WOERNER.  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE PENAL LAW, IN RELATION TO SEXUAL CONDUCT AGAINST A

                    CHILD IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7079-C.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BURDICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BURDICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  THIS BILL FILLS A GAP IN THE DEFINITION UNDER THE PENAL LAW OF

                    THE OFFENSE OF SEXUAL CONDUCT AGAINST A CHILD IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

                    WITH THIS AMENDMENT IT EXPANDS THE DEFINITION TO INCLUDE USE OF A

                    FINGER WHICH, SADLY, CASE LAW HAS HELD DOES NOT CONSTITUTE SUCH AN

                                         111



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OFFENSE.  THE BILL CAME ABOUT THROUGH THE SEXUAL ASSAULT OF A

                    9-YEAR-OLD GIRL, THE DAUGHTER OF A RESIDENT OF MY DISTRICT, WHO IN TEARS

                    CAME TO ME YEARS AFTER THE OFFENSE AND ASKED ME IF SOMETHING COULD

                    BE DONE TO CHANGE THE LAW.  THIS AMENDMENT WILL NOT CHANGE WHAT

                    OCCURRED, BUT WILL PROVIDE SOME CLOSURE AND PEACE FOR THE VICTIM AND

                    HER PARENTS.  WHILE I RECOGNIZE THAT CLARIFYING THE LAW DOES NOT

                    NECESSARILY DETER SUCH ACTION -- ASSAULTS, AT LEAST IT WILL PROVIDE SOME

                    RECOURSE FOR FUTURE VICTIMS.

                                 I AM GRATEFUL FOR THE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR THIS

                    MEASURE AND THE TREMENDOUS HELP WHICH STAFF PROVIDED IN SIGNIFICANTLY

                    IMPROVING THE BILL.  I ALSO WISH TO THANK CODES CHAIR JEFF DINOWITZ

                    AND THE SPEAKER FOR FINDING THE PATH TO ENACTMENT OF THIS BILL.  I VOTE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BURDICK IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07436-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 535, ABBATE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE DIRECT DEPOSIT OF CERTAIN SALARIES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    ABBATE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         112



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1,

                    2023.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 6617-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07747-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 536, MAGNARELLI, WOERNER, JONES, STIRPE, BUTTENSCHON.  AN

                    ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND THE PARKS, RECREATION

                    AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO FEES FOR SNOWMOBILE TRAIL

                    DEVELOPMENT AND MAINTENANCE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON 7747-B.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES

                    TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR

                    MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         113



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07805-D, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 537, CYMBROWITZ, FALL, BENEDETTO, BURDICK, COOK, TAPIA,

                    J. RIVERA, SEAWRIGHT, DINOWITZ, EICHENSTEIN, DAVILA, D. ROSENTHAL,

                    HYNDMAN, HEVESI, TAYLOR, NOLAN, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, WILLIAMS,

                    CARROLL, RAJKUMAR.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HOUSING LAW AND THE

                    ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO

                    ESTABLISHING THE NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC HOUSING PRESERVATION TRUST FOR

                    PROPERTIES OWNED OR OPERATED BY THE NEW YORK CITY HOUSING

                    AUTHORITY AND PROVIDING FOR THE ISSUANCE OF CERTAIN BONDS, NOTES OR

                    OTHER OBLIGATIONS OF THE NEW YORK CITY HOUSING DEVELOPMENT

                    CORPORATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7805-D.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. ANDERSON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SIR.

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  THANK YOU.  SO, YOU KNOW, TODAY

                                         114



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    IS A VERY DISAPPOINTING DAY WITH THIS BILL THAT'S IN FRONT OF US.  WE HAD A

                    REAL OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NEW YORK CITY HOUSING

                    AUTHORITY THAT HAS BEEN NEGLECTED FROM HAVING FUNDING FOR OVER 40

                    YEARS A TRUE OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC HOUSING TO REMAIN PUBLIC.  WE HAD

                    AN OPPORTUNITY FOR 40 YEARS TO DO THE RIGHT THING.  THIS BILL REPRESENTS

                    THE WRONG THING.  THIS BILL REPRESENTS US TRADING PENNIES FOR GOLD.

                    SECTION 9 IS GOLD AND IT PROVIDES TRUE AND REAL AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO

                    MANY WORKING-CLASS FAMILIES IN PERPETUITY.  THIS BILL HARMS MANY

                    ASPECTS OF THAT ABILITY TO ADD AND ALLOW FOR TRUE AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO

                    EXIST.  WE UNDERSTAND THE CONDITIONS OF OUR RESIDENTS, OF OUR

                    NEIGHBORS, ARE IMPACTED TO THEM AND AT THIS TIME I FEEL THAT WE'RE

                    TURNING OUR BACKS ON THEM BY VOTING ON THIS TRUST.  IT'S HARD TO TRUST A

                    TRUST WHEN THERE'S NO COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.  IT'S HARD TO TRUST A TRUST

                    WHEN THERE'S NO VOTING THRESHOLD, RULES AND REGULATIONS TO ENSURE THAT

                    JUST FIVE PEOPLE IN A VERY VOTER-APATHETIC PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENT

                    SITUATION AND SCENARIO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRULY DETERMINE THEIR

                    FUTURE.

                                 SO I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE

                    AISLE AND HERE IN THIS CONFERENCE TO VOTE NO ON THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION, AND I HOPE THAT EVERYBODY WILL DO THAT AS WELL.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ANDERSON IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I RISE TO

                                         115



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  SO, I REPRESENT 13 PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS IN

                    NEW YORK CITY, AND I HAVE MET WITH MY NYCHA LEADERS NUMEROUS

                    TIMES AROUND THIS AND THEY ARE UNIFORMLY OPPOSED TO THIS TRUST BILL.

                    ONE, THEY'RE REALLY DEEPLY CONCERNED AROUND LOSING THEIR SECTION 9

                    PROTECTIONS AND MOVING TO SECTION 8, CONCERNS AROUND THE DEFAULT

                    PROVISIONS.  IF THE TRUST FAILS TO PAY, WHAT'S OWED WHEN THEY BORROW

                    FUNDS, AND THROUGH THIS BONDING AUTHORITY WHAT THE RISK WILL BE TO

                    THOSE RESIDENTS WHO THROUGH -- THROUGH WHOEVER (INAUDIBLE) BONDED

                    THE MONEY.  THEIR VOTING RIGHTS.  ENSURING THAT THEY ENSURE THAT THE

                    MAJORITY OF THE RESIDENTS WHO LIVE IN THOSE DEVELOPMENTS CAN CHOOSE

                    THE PATH THAT THEY WANT.  TIME AND TIME AGAIN WE'VE SAID TO PUBLIC

                    HOUSING AUTHORITIES, LIKE, LISTEN TO OUR RESIDENTS.  AND THIS IS WHAT

                    WE'RE DOING.  WE'RE LISTENING TO OUR RESIDENTS WHO ARE TELLING US TO VOTE

                    NO.  WE ARE LISTENING TO OUR RESIDENTS WHO CARE DEEPLY ABOUT WHAT THEY

                    -- WHERE THEY LIVE AND WANT US TO DO SOMETHING RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

                    THIS BILL DOESN'T GET THERE.  THIS BILL DOESN'T DO WHAT WE NEED.  THIS

                    BILL DOESN'T HAVE THE SUPPORT OF OUR COMMUNITIES.  SO TIME AND TIME

                    AGAIN THERE'S OUR OBLIGATION TO STAND UP FOR OUR RESIDENTS.  STANDING UP

                    FOR OUR RESIDENTS MEANS VOTING AGAINST THIS BILL.  STANDING UP FOR OUR

                    RESIDENTS MEANS TELLING NYCHA TO DO A BETTER JOB ENGAGING WITH OUR

                    COMMUNITIES, ENGAGING WITH OUR RESIDENTS, ENSURING THAT THEY HAVE A

                    PLAN THAT WORKS FOR THEM.  THIS IS THEIR HOME.  THEY ARE -- MANY OF

                    THEM IN MY COMMUNITY WERE BORN AND RAISED IN THESE PUBLIC HOUSING

                    DEVELOPMENTS.  THEY HAVE RAISED THEIR KIDS THERE AND THEIR GRANDKIDS

                    THERE.  THEY BELIEVE IN THIS DEVELOPMENT.  THEY WANT TO FIGHT FOR THEIR

                                         116



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PUBLIC HOUSING AND IT IS OUR OBLIGATION TO FIGHT WITH THEM.

                                 I'M GOING TO VOTE AGAINST THIS BILL AND I ENCOURAGE MY

                    COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. NIOU.

                                 MS. NIOU:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING

                    ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I STAND HERE TODAY ON BEHALF OF PUBLIC HOUSING

                    RESIDENTS IN 45 ALLEN STREET, 17 ELDRIDGE STREET, THE HERNANDEZ,

                    HOUSES, THE LAGUARDIA HOUSES, LOWER EAST SIDE I, MELTZER TOWER, THE

                    RUTGERS HOUSES, SEWARD PARK EXTENSION, THE SMITH HOUSES, THE TWO

                    BRIDGES DEVELOPMENT AND THE VLADECK HOUSES, ALL 11 NYCHA

                    DEVELOPMENTS IN MY DISTRICT, TO FIRMLY OPPOSE THIS LEGISLATION AND ANY

                    OTHER ATTEMPT TO TRANSFORM SECTION 9 PUBLIC HOUSING INTO SECTION 8

                    UNITS.  I OPPOSE THIS BILL ON PROCEDURAL GROUNDS, THAT IT WAS CRAFTED

                    WITHOUT SUFFICIENT INPUT FROM RESIDENTS AND ON SUBSTANTIVE GROUNDS THAT

                    IT ULTIMATELY PUTS UNITS AT AN INTOLERABLE LEVEL AT RISK.

                                 FIRST AND FOREMOST, MY OPPOSITION IS OWED TO

                    COMMUNITY OPPOSITION BY NYCHA RESIDENTS IN EVERY DEVELOPMENT IN

                    MY DISTRICT.  BEYOND JUST MY DISTRICT, NINE OF THE TEN REPRESENTATIVES ON

                    THE CCOP, A BOARD OF TENANTS ELECTED TO REPRESENT THEIR NEIGHBORS,

                    OPPOSE THE TRUST.  I AM DISAPPOINTED IN MY COLLEAGUES WHO SAY THIS

                    SCHEME IS BEST FOR NYCHA RESIDENTS.  TENANTS HAVE BOLDLY AND LOUDLY

                    DECLARED THAT THEY DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS IS BEST FOR THEM.  AND THEY

                    ARE BROADLY DISTRUSTFUL OF MANY OF THIS PLAN'S IMPLICATIONS AND WOULD

                                         117



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    RATHER WORK TO SOLVE THE ISSUES WITH SECTION 9 RATHER THAN TURN TO

                    SECTION 8.  WE CANNOT MAKE DECISIONS FOR PUBLIC HOUSING RESIDENTS

                    WITHOUT PUBLIC HOUSING RESIDENTS.  THEY MUST HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE

                    IN DRAFTING ANY PROPOSED NYCHA OVERHAUL, AND THEY HAVE BEEN

                    REGULARLY EXCLUDED AND IGNORED IN THE PROCESS OF CREATING THIS BILL.

                                 I WILL BE REGISTERING ALL OF MY COMMENTS OFFICIALLY FOR

                    THE RECORD.  THANK YOU, AND I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. NIOU IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. LAWLER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  TWO OF

                    THE BIGGEST AUTHORITIES THAT WE HAVE IN THIS STATE ARE THE MTA AND

                    NYCHA, AND BOTH ARE ABJECT FAILURES.  THEY'RE HORRIBLY RUN.  THE

                    AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT GOES INTO THEM AND IS WASTED, MISMANAGED,

                    MISUSED.  YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIVING IN NYCHA HOUSING WHO HAVE HOLES

                    IN THEIR CEILINGS.  LITERALLY WATER POURING DOWN AS THEY GO TO THE

                    RESTROOM, HAVING TO HOLD AN UMBRELLA.  IT'S SHAMEFUL, IT'S DISGRACEFUL,

                    IT'S DISGUSTING.  THIS BILL SIMPLY SHIFTS THE BLAME, SHIFTS THE PROBLEM,

                    MOVES THE COSTS, ALLOWS FOR MORE BORROWING, AND NO REAL PLAN TO FIX

                    THE PROBLEMS.  I DON'T KNOW HOW IN GOOD CONSCIENCE WE COULD

                    CONTINUE DOWN THIS PATH AND JUST THROW MORE MONEY AT IT, ALLOW FOR

                    MORE BORROWING, MORE DEBT AND A NEW NAME.  THIS IS NOT A PLAN.  THIS

                    IS NOT GOING TO FIX A THING.  IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN WINDOW DRESSING,

                    AND I THINK THE RESIDENTS OF NYCHA HOUSING DESERVE FAR BETTER THAN

                    WHAT THEY'VE RECEIVED AND WHAT THIS BILL WOULD EVEN DO.

                                         118



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THIS IS A MONEY GRAB AND WE SHOULD NOT BE IN FAVOR OF

                    IT.  WE SHOULD BE VOTING AGAINST IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAWLER IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. WEINSTEIN:  MR. SPEAKER, I STAND IN SUPPORT OF

                    THIS LEGISLATION.  I'M JUST LISTENING AND HEARD A NUMBER OF COLLEAGUES

                    WHO TALKED ABOUT THEIR NYCHA RESIDENTS OPPOSING THIS MEASURE.  IN

                    MY DISTRICT IN THE SHEEPSHEAD-NOSTRAND HOUSES, THE PRESIDENT OF THE

                    NOSTRAND HOUSES IS A VERY STRONG PROPONENT OF THIS LEGISLATION, THIS --

                    THIS CONCEPT OF TRUST.  AND THE RESIDENTS IN MY COMMUNITY BELIEVE THAT

                    THIS WILL BE A TREMENDOUS BENEFIT FOR THEM OVER THE LONG-TERM. SO I JUST

                    WANTED TO BRING THAT PERSPECTIVE.  THERE'S NOT UNIFORMITY IN HOW

                    RESIDENTS OF NYCHA VIEW THIS PROPOSAL.  AND HAVING LISTENED TO IT AND

                    SPOKEN WITH THE NYCHA LEADERSHIP I BELIEVE THAT IT WILL BE A

                    TREMENDOUS BENEFIT TO MANY RESIDENTS OF NYCHA AND I'M PROUD TO

                    VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WEINSTEIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. SEPTIMO TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. SEPTIMO:  I REPRESENT THE SOUTH BRONX.  MY

                    DISTRICT IS HOME TO MORE THAN 15 NYCHA DEVELOPMENTS.  MY DISTRICT

                    IS ALSO HOME TO THE POOREST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT IN THE NATION.  WE

                    KNOW THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS COMPLETELY ABANDONED ITS

                    RESPONSIBILITY TO OUR TENANTS, TO NYCHA TENANTS ACROSS THE CITY, TO

                                         119



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PUBLIC HOUSING TENANTS ACROSS THE NATION.  ULTIMATELY, THESE TENANTS

                    DESERVE BETTER.  THE NYCHA TRUST BLUEPRINT IS NOT THE PROCESS THAT IS

                    GOING TO GET THEM TO BETTER, AND WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE WHETHER YOU ARE

                    FIGHTING ON THE SUBSTANCE OF THE BILL AND HOW THESE VOUCHERS COME TO

                    BE AND HOW THEY GET FUNDED OR THE PROCESS, AT EVERY SINGLE POINT THERE

                    ARE TOO MANY QUESTIONS AND TOO MANY FLAWS THAT REMAIN.  THIS PROCESS

                    HAS BEEN ONE THAT HAS FAILED TO CONSIDER TENANT VOICE AND TENANT RIGHTS

                    FROM START TO FINISH.  TODAY WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE SCORES -- THOUSANDS

                    OF TENANTS ACROSS NEW YORK CITY WHO ARE FEELING VULNERABLE ABOUT

                    THEIR RIGHTS GOING INTO THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE

                    SAYING THAT WE ARE NOT CONCERNED WITH THESE GENUINE MOMENTS OF

                    PAUSE.

                                 I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION BECAUSE ULTIMATELY, ANY PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT IS AIMING

                    TO HELP PEOPLE HAS TO CONSIDER THE PERSPECTIVES OF THOSE PEOPLE AND

                    ULTIMATELY THE BLUEPRINT FAILS TO DO THAT.  THERE ARE QUESTIONS AS IT

                    RELATES TO HOW DEVELOPMENTS WILL OPT INTO THE BLUEPRINT.  THERE ARE

                    QUESTIONS AS TO WHAT WILL MAKE ELECTIONS THAT PUT PROPERTIES INTO THE

                    BLUEPRINT LEGITIMATE.  THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT REMAIN ABOUT HOW MANY

                    PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO PARTICIPATE IN DECISION-MAKING FOR DEVELOPMENTS

                    THAT WILL AFFECT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES AND THAT WE KNOW WILL

                    AFFECT THE HOUSING STOCK FOR YEARS TO COME.  BECAUSE OF THESE QUESTIONS

                    AND SO MANY OTHERS THAT HAVE BEEN -- HAVE REMAINED UNANSWERED AND

                    BECAUSE OF THE WHOLESALE DISREGARD OF TENANTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY WHO

                    ARE IN OPPOSITION TO THIS PROJECT, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I

                                         120



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HOPE THAT WE CAN ALL RESTORE OUR COMMITMENT TO THESE TENANTS AND

                    RESPECTING THEIR VOICE MOVING FORWARD.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. SEPTIMO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  I RISE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I UNDERSTAND THAT PUBLIC HOUSING

                    ACROSS THE NATION IS A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBILITY, AND IN MANY

                    WAYS I -- I -- I RESENT THE WAY THAT THEY ABDICATED THEIR RESPONSIBILITY

                    CONSISTENTLY OVER THE DECADES.  AND -- AND WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN NEW

                    YORK AND I WOULD SUSPECT IN OTHER STATES AS WELL IS TO TRY AND TAKE CARE

                    OF OUR RESIDENTS IN SPITE OF WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS OR WAS

                    NOT DOING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CAN WE GET A LITTLE

                    QUIET, PLEASE?  SHH.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  AND SO I THINK, MR.

                    SPEAKER, IN MANY WAYS WHAT THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE AND THE

                    SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION IS TRYING TO DO IS TO SAY TO NEW YORK STATE

                    RESIDENTS WHO ARE NYCHA TENANTS AND MOST LIKELY THE RESPONSIBILITY

                    OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THAT WE'RE NOT JUST GOING TO KEEP WAITING ON

                    THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO DO THEIR RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOU.  WE'RE GOING

                    TO TRY AND HELP YOU AND HELP THEM HELP YOU.  SO I THINK THIS BILL IS

                    WORTH THE EFFORT.  I'M GLAD THAT THE SPONSOR HAS INTRODUCED IT.  AND

                    ALBEIT NOT EVERYTHING EVERYBODY WANTS, BUT WHEN DO WE EVER GET

                    EVERYTHING THAT EVERYBODY WANTS?  WE'RE NOT THERE YET, BUT WE ARE IN A

                                         121



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    GOOD PLACE WHERE I THINK THIS COULD BE BENEFICIAL TO THE TENANTS BOTH IN

                    THE SHORT-TERM AND IN THE LONG-TERM.

                                 SO I'M VOTING YES.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

                    IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. JACKSON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. JACKSON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I HAVE THE PLEASURE OF -- I HAVE THE

                    PLEASURE OF SPEAKING UP FOR OVER 20 NYCHA DEVELOPMENTS IN MY

                    DISTRICT, AND FROM THE BEGINNING OF THIS BILL WHEN I LEARNED ABOUT IT

                    BEFORE I EVEN BECAME AN ASSEMBLYMEMBER IT WAS PROBLEMATIC

                    BECAUSE OF HOW AND WHICH NYCHA DECIDED TO ROLL OUT THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION.  THE TENANT LEADERS HAVE HAD ISSUES WITH THE ROLLOUT SINCE

                    THE BEGINNING, THEY HAVE BEEN EXPLAINING TO LEADERSHIP FOR THE LONGEST

                    THAT THERE ARE THINGS IN HERE THAT THEY ARE AFRAID OF FOR THEIR -- THEIR

                    LIVING ENVIRONMENT.  THEY WANT TO PROTECT PUBLIC HOUSING.  MY TENANT

                    LEADERS WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT PUBLIC HOUSING STAY PUBLIC, AND WHAT

                    THIS BILL DOES FOR THEM SCARES THEM.  AND SO IT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO

                    SPEAK UP AND TO BE THE VOICE SINCE THEY CANNOT BE HERE ON THE FLOOR

                    AND EXPRESS THEIR VOTE TO SAY THAT I WILL NOT BE VOTING FOR THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION.  AND I RESPECT PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE.  I DON'T LIVE THERE NOR

                    DOES ANYONE IN THIS BODY THAT I KNOW OF LIVES IN PUBLIC HOUSING, SO IT'S

                    HARD FOR US TO TELL THEM WHAT -- WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM.  WE ARE

                    SUPPOSED TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE AND ALLOW THE PEOPLE TO HAVE SAY ON

                    THEIR LIVING ENVIRONMENTS.  WE KNOW HOW BAD IT IS.  WE DON'T NEED A

                                         122



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CRASH COURSE IN THAT BECAUSE WE KNOW.  BUT AT THIS POINT WE'RE ASKING

                    THAT --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ONE MINUTE, MS.

                    JACKSON.

                                 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN UNDER THE EAVE, YOU'RE GOING TO

                    HAVE TO TONE IT DOWN.

                                 MS. JACKSON:  WE'RE ASKING -- THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WE'RE ASKING THAT THEIR -- THAT THE AMENDMENTS THAT THEY'RE

                    ASKING FOR, THE RULES THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR BE -- BE ADOPTED AS SUCH.

                    SO I AM A NO VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. JACKSON IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. DAVILA TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. DAVILA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                    ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  WELL, I -- I DEFINITELY UNDERSTAND THAT

                    THERE MIGHT BE SOME MEMBERS THAT ARE EXTREMELY CONCERNED ABOUT

                    NYCHA AND THE WAY IT HAS BEEN TREATED FOR DECADES AND DECADES.

                    THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THERE IS -- THE TRUST FUND, NOT TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE

                    TRUSTWORTHY OF IT, SO TO SPEAK.  BUT I -- IN MY DISTRICT I HAVE FIVE, SIX

                    DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENTS AND I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR

                    DECADES AND DECADES.  THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BETTER PLANS THAT I

                    HAVE SEEN THAT CAN GIVE THESE TENANTS AN OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE IN A

                    HABITABLE ENVIRONMENT AND TO ALSO MAINTAIN THEIR HOUSING STATUS AS

                    PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENT.  THE THING IS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE

                    TO CHOOSE.  THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS -- THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED

                                         123



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BEFORE.  SO WE -- WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THAT STEP ONE WAY OR

                    ANOTHER TO ENSURE THAT OUR TENANTS ARE TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT

                    AND THAT THEY CAN LIVE IN A HABITABLE ENVIRONMENT AND THAT THEY ARE NO

                    LONGER TARGETED AS A LOW-INCOME DEVELOPMENT OR HAVE TO FEEL LIKE THEY

                    HAVE TO WALK AROUND RATS AND -- AND ROACHES AND -- BECAUSE WE ARE NOT

                    DOING WHAT WE NEED TO DO ON OUR PART.

                                 SO WITH THAT SAID, MR. SPEAKER, I VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. DAVILA IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. FRONTUS ON ZOOM.

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. SPEAKER,

                    FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I HOPE THAT EVERYONE CAN HEAR

                    ME.  THERE IS A BIT OF A DELAY HERE.  I REPRESENT THE 46TH DISTRICT,

                    SOUTHERN BROOKLYN, MY HOME NEIGHBORHOOD OF CONEY ISLAND WHICH

                    HAS SOME NINE NYCHA DEVELOPMENTS.  SOME OF THEM ARE AS LARGE AS

                    15 BUILDINGS.  SOME OF MY LEADERS ARE FOR THE TRUST, SOME ARE AGAINST IT.

                    BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT LAST NIGHT I HAD A THREE-HOUR TOWN HALL MEETING

                    AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE THERE TOLD ME THAT THEY ARE AGAINST THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION.  WHAT I FIND THE MOST TROUBLING, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, IS

                    THAT THE AVERAGE RESIDENT IN MY COMMUNITY WAS HEARING THE WORDS

                    "BLUEPRINT FOR CHANGE", WAS HEARING ABOUT RAD, WAS HEARING ABOUT THE

                    PRESERVATION TRUST FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME.  IF WE ARE GOING TO ASK

                    PEOPLE TO TRUST US, WE ARE MEMBERS OF GOVERNMENT, WE HAVE TO BEHAVE

                    IN A MANNER WHERE PEOPLE CAN TAKE US SERIOUSLY.  AND I, FRANKLY, JUST

                                         124



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS A WAY TO EARN TRUST WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN

                    DISAPPOINTED FOR DECADES AND DECADES.  SOME OF THE FAMILIES AT

                    NYCHA ARE SECOND-GENERATION, SOME ARE THIRD-GENERATION.  THEY'RE

                    USED TO BROKEN PROMISES.  THEY'RE USED TO PEOPLE NOT KEEPING THEIR

                    WORD.  IF WE ARE TRYING TO TURN OVER A NEW PAGE, IF WE ARE TRYING TO TURN

                    OVER A NEW LEAF, THEN WHAT NYCHA SHOULD HAVE DONE IS MEET WITH ALL

                    OF THE TENANTS, AS THEY SAID THEY WOULD, BECAUSE WHEN THEY FIRST CAME

                    OUT WITH THIS PLAN THEY MET WITH MEMBERS LIKE MYSELF IN THE

                    LEGISLATURE AND THE FIRST QUESTION WE ASKED THEM IS, ARE YOU GOING TO

                    HAVE TOWN HALL MEETINGS AND MEET WITH THE RESIDENTS TO MAKE SURE THEY

                    ARE INFORMED?  THEY TOLD US THAT THEY WOULD, AND MUCH TO MY CHAGRIN,

                    MUCH TO MY CHAGRIN, WHEN I STARTED ASKING AROUND PEOPLE KNEW

                    ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

                                 (BUZZER SOUNDS)

                                 AND SO MY NEGATIVE VOTE TODAY IS NOT REALLY AGAINST

                    THE TRUST OR THE PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FRONTUS, HOW DO

                    YOU VOTE?

                                 MS. FRONTUS:  I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU

                    SO MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FRONTUS IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. REYES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. REYES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL IS

                    VERY TROUBLING FOR ME BECAUSE LIKE SO MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE

                                         125



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    MENTIONED, RESIDENT ENGAGEMENT HAS BEEN VERY LACKING AROUND THIS

                    ISSUE.  AND YES, RESIDENTS OF NYCHA DESERVE INVESTMENT.  NOBODY

                    SHOULD BE LIVING IN THE CONDITIONS THAT NYCHA RESIDENTS ARE LIVING IN.

                    BUT THE REALITY IS THAT NYCHA HAS ALSO SQUANDERED LOTS AND LOTS OF

                    MONEY, LOTS OF RESOURCES.  THEY'VE HAD TIME AND TIME OPPORTUNITIES TO

                    DO RIGHT BY TENANTS AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE THAT.  SO IT'S IRONIC THAT WE

                    SEE A BILL THAT CREATES A TRUST IN WHICH THE RESIDENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO

                    NOW TRUST THAT NYCHA IS GOING TO DO RIGHT BY THEM.  WE'VE SEEN RAD

                    PACT CONVERSIONS AND OTHER ITERATIONS OF A NYCHA PLAN WITH SHOTTY

                    RENOVATIONS THAT ARE FAILING CURRENTLY, AND WITH IT WE ALSO SAW SOME OF

                    THE HIGHEST EVICTION RATES IN OUR CITY.  THAT, TO ME, IS PROBLEMATIC.

                    THE FACT THAT WE ARE PASSING THIS WITHOUT TRUE DISCUSSION AND TRUE

                    CONFERENCE AND DEBATE ON A LITANY OF ISSUES IN THE LANGUAGE OF THIS TRUST

                    IS ALSO PROBLEMATIC.  ONE PIECE IS THAT -- THE REALITY IS THAT SECTION 9 IS

                    THE LAST BASTION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN OUR COUNTRY, AND THIS WOULD

                    BE DOING AWAY WITH SECTION 9 VOUCHERS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                    SOME OF THE FEW THAT ARE LEFT.  BUT ALSO THERE'S A LABOR COMPONENT TO

                    THIS, AND THIS LANGUAGE LITERALLY GIVES THE OPTION TO NYCHA, EITHER

                    PARTICIPATE OR NOT, IF THEY WISH, IN COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, POSSIBLY DOING

                    AWAY WITH GOOD-PAYING LABOR UNION JOBS THAT THE VERY PEOPLE WHO LIVE

                    IN NYCHA NEED TO SURVIVE AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN OUR CITY

                    DEPEND ON AS WELL.

                                 FOR THAT AND MANY OTHER REASONS I'M GOING TO BE

                    VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. REYES IN THE

                                         126



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. WALSH FOR EXCEPTIONS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD YOU

                    PLEASE RECORD MR. DESTEFANO IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  PLEASE RECORD OUR

                    COLLEAGUES MR. BARNWELL, MS. MITAYNES, MR. MAMDANI AND MS.

                    GALLAGHER IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07837-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 538, NORRIS.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY

                    OF NIAGARA TO TRANSFER OWNERSHIP OF CERTAIN PARKLAND TO THE TOWN OF

                    LOCKPORT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    NORRIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         127



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 6313-C.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

                    PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MR. DINOWITZ IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07876-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 539, CARROLL, WALKER, GALLAGHER, BARNWELL, JONES,

                    ANDERSON, STERN, ROZIC, QUART, PAULIN, CYMBROWITZ, GOTTFRIED,

                    DINOWITZ, GRIFFIN, NOLAN, ABINANTI, SANTABARBARA, L. ROSENTHAL,

                    MCDONALD, LAVINE, THIELE, OTIS, HEVESI, DAVILA, SEAWRIGHT,

                    D. ROSENTHAL, LUPARDO, JACOBSON, FERNANDEZ, O'DONNELL, CUSICK,

                    KELLES, BURDICK, FAHY, GALEF, STECK, MAGNARELLI, WOERNER, BARRETT,

                    STIRPE, SIMON, HUNTER, DURSO, GANDOLFO, NIOU, CRUZ, MIKULIN,

                    MONTESANO, ENGLEBRIGHT, GIBBS, COLTON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

                    PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION

                    CONCERNING FLOOD INSURANCE ON RESIDENTIAL LEASES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    CARROLL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                                         128



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ADVANCED AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07919-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 540, BRONSON, WALLACE, BYRNES, BURKE, JENSEN, DINOWITZ,

                    BARNWELL, LUNSFORD, ROZIC, MCDONALD, OTIS, DICKENS, GOTTFRIED,

                    LUPARDO, GRIFFIN, DARLING, SOLAGES, JOYNER, HAWLEY, GALLAHAN,

                    MORINELLO, MIKULIN, LAWLER, J.M. GIGLIO, DESTEFANO, GANDOLFO,

                    WALCZYK, K. BROWN, DURSO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW,

                    THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW, THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW AND THE

                    HIGHWAY LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE NEW YORK STATE BUY

                    AMERICAN SALT ACT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7919-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. BYRNES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. BYRNES:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. SPEAKER.  I KNOW THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL AND I'LL BE VERY BRIEF.  I JUST

                    WANTED TO INDICATE AND TO THANK MR. BRONSON, ALTHOUGH HE'S NOT HERE.  I

                    REPRESENT IN MY DISTRICT ONE OF THE LARGEST SALT -- ACTUALLY, THE LARGEST

                    SALT MINE IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  AND AMERICAN ROCK

                    SALT AND ITS PREDECESSOR HAD MINED SALT UNDER LIVINGSTON COUNTY FOR

                                         129



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OVER 100 YEARS.  IT IS THE ECONOMIC DRIVER OF LIVINGSTON COUNTY, WHICH

                    IS MY DISTRICT.  IT SUPPORTS 7- TO 800 FAMILIES.  NOT JUST MINERS, BUT ALSO

                    TRUCK DRIVERS, RAILROAD PERSONNEL, AND ALSO FARMERS BECAUSE IN THE

                    WINTERTIME WHEN FARMERS WOULD NORMALLY PUT THEIR TRUCKS IN STORAGE

                    NOW THEY'RE ABLE TO USE THEM IN ORDER TO TRANSPORT SALT IN THE

                    WINTERTIME.  SO THIS IS JUST AN ECONOMIC BOOM FOR MY AREA.  THE SALT

                    MINE PLAYS BY OLD RULES, IT FOLLOWS THE REGULATIONS, IT PAYS THE RIGHT

                    WAGES AND BENEFITS.  ALL THE MINERS WANTED WAS A CHANCE TO HAVE A

                    LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.  WE HAVE TALKED A LOT IN THIS HOUSE ABOUT FOREIGN

                    SUBSTANDARD MINING ON FOREIGN SOIL AND POTENTIAL HUMAN RIGHTS

                    CONCERNS.  AND NO, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT COBALT.  NOW WE'RE TALKING

                    ABOUT SALT.  AND AS A RESULT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT OUR NEW YORK STATE

                    LOCAL PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPORTING OUR OWN FAMILIES IN OUR OWN

                    NEIGHBORHOODS BE ABLE TO WORK AND THRIVE, AND THAT IS WHY I'M

                    SUPPORTING THIS BILL.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. BYRNES IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. BYRNE.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I VOTE --

                    YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO MY COLLEAGUE,

                    AND I UNDERSTAND THAT LIKE MANY PIECES OF LEGISLATION THERE ARE CERTAIN

                    POLICIES THAT WE EMBRACE AND SUPPORT THAT ARE VERY FAVORABLE TO SOME

                    PORTIONS OF THE STATE AND NOT SO FAVORABLE TO OTHER PORTIONS OF THE

                    STATE.  AND WHILE I -- I CERTAINLY RESPECT HER POSITION AND UNDERSTAND

                                         130



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WHY SHE'S FIGHTING FOR IT, I HAVE GOTTEN PHONE CALLS AND LETTERS,

                    COMMUNICATIONS FROM A NUMBER OF MY HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENTS,

                    RAISING THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT THE CAP -- THE CAPACITY TO ATTAIN ENOUGH

                    SALT, THE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES THAT THIS COULD HAVE ON THEM BEING

                    ABLE TO OBTAIN THE SALT THEY NEED FOR THEIR OPERATIONS.  JUST AS RECENTLY

                    AS TWO DAYS AGO I SPOKE WITH THE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT OF PUTNAM

                    VALLEY WHO IS A REGISTERED DEMOCRAT AND WHO TOLD ME, PLEASE, KEVIN,

                    DO NOT SUPPORT THIS BILL.  AND THAT IS WHY I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BYRNE IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07952, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 541, LALOR.  AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 476 OF THE LAWS OF 1957

                    RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS OF THE LAND OFFICE

                    TO GRANT CERTAIN EASEMENTS IN LANDS OF THE STATE UNIVERSITY AGRICULTURAL

                    AND TECHNICAL INSTITUTE AT FARMINGDALE TO CENTRAL HUDSON GAS AND

                    ELECTRIC CORPORATION IN IN RELATION TO THE DESCRIPTION OF LANDS FOR

                    WHICH THE COMMISSIONER OF GENERAL SERVICES IS AUTHORIZED TO GRANT AN

                    EASEMENT TO THE CENTRAL HUDSON GAS AND ELECTRIC CORPORATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    LALOR, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                                         131



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9288.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08098, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 542, CYMBROWITZ.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PRIVATE HOUSING FINANCE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO RENTAL ASSISTANCE AND LEGAL REGULATED RENTS IN

                    AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    CYMBROWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 7235.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                         132



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08151, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 543, SILLITTI.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING ST. FRANCIS HOSPITAL,

                    ROSLYN, NEW YORK, TO FILE AN APPLICATION FOR EXEMPTION FROM REAL

                    PROPERTY TAXES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    SILLITTI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 7265.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08169-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 544, CRUZ, ANDERSON, SOLAGES, JACKSON, SIMON, MAMDANI,

                    FERNANDEZ, HEVESI, DINOWITZ, SEAWRIGHT, SAYEGH, J.D. RIVERA,

                    WILLIAMS, JOYNER, TAPIA, BURGOS, BARNWELL, COLTON, GLICK, GONZÁLEZ-

                    ROJAS, FORREST, RAMOS, AUBRY, J. RIVERA, CARROLL, BURDICK, BICHOTTE

                                         133



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HERMELYN, EPSTEIN, GALLAGHER, JACOBSON, SEPTIMO, DE LOS SANTOS,

                    KIM, JEAN-PIERRE, DICKENS, NIOU.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO CERTAIN PROHIBITED CONTRACT PROVISIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    CRUZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED

                    AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08331, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 545, B. MILLER.  AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE JOHN RAFTERY OF THE TOWN OF

                    SHAWANGUNK TO TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATION FOR THE

                    POSITION OF POLICE OFFICER AND BE PLACED ON THE ELIGIBLE LIST FOR

                    EMPLOYMENT AS A FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER OF THE TOWN OF SHAWANGUNK

                    POLICE DEPARTMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    MILLER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 7490.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         134



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08425, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 546, BURKE, TAYLOR, STIRPE, EPSTEIN, SIMON, AUBRY, GALEF,

                    ZEBROWSKI, MAGNARELLI, SILLITTI, HEVESI, BRAUNSTEIN, DICKENS,

                    GOTTFRIED, GLICK, MCMAHON, O'DONNELL, MCDONOUGH, JEAN-PIERRE,

                    OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING

                    NONPUBLIC SCHOOLS TO FOLLOW THE SAME RULES AND REGULATIONS AS PUBLIC

                    SCHOOLS REGARDING A PUPIL WHO SUFFERS A CONCUSSION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    BURKE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JULY 1ST.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 973.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08455-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 547, BYRNE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE

                    "PUTNAM VALLEY FIRST RESPONDERS BRIDGE."

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         135



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8455-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  YES, I

                    DEFINITELY WILL SUPPORT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  I ALSO JUST WANTED TO

                    NOTE FOR MY COLLEAGUES THAT THIS IS OUR COLLEAGUE KEVIN BYRNE'S LAST BILL

                    DURING HIS TIME HERE IN THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY.  KEVIN IS A

                    CLASSMATE OF MINE.  WE BOTH CAME TO THE ASSEMBLY IN 2017.  HE IS A

                    FRIEND AND HE HAS BEEN AN AMAZING COLLEAGUE IN THE CHAMBER AND AS

                    OUR HEALTH COMMITTEE RANKER.  HE REALLY BROUGHT HIS EXPERIENCE AND

                    BACKGROUND IN EMERGENCY SERVICES, HIS RESPECT FOR THE FIRE SERVICE.

                    AND HE REALLY -- I -- I THINK HE JUST REALLY -- I'VE REALLY WATCHED HIM

                    GROW AS A LEGISLATOR AND I'M -- I'M VERY SAD THAT HE'S GOING TO BE

                    LEAVING US.  BUT I'M SURE THAT HIS WIFE, BRIANA, AND SON WILL BE VERY

                    HAPPY TO HAVE HIM A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO HOME IN THE COMING YEARS.

                                 SO I JUST WANTED TO WISH HIM VERY WELL, AND OF COURSE

                    I'LL SUPPORT THIS BILL AS WELL.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BYRNE, IN MY

                    TIME YOU'VE BEEN THE FIRST TO EVER WEAR KILTS ON THE FLOOR.

                                         136



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 HOPEFULLY YOU WON'T BE THE LAST.

                                 MR. BYRNE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  WELL, I WASN'T SURE IF I WAS GOING TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE, BUT NOW I WILL.  THANK YOU TO OUR ASSISTANT MINORITY

                    LEADER PRO TEM FOR THOSE VERY KIND WORDS.  A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS BILL,

                    IT'S FITTING THAT IT COULD BE ONE OF MY LAST BILLS OR THE LAST BILL.  WHAT

                    WE'RE RENAMING IS AN OVERPASS, PUDDING STREET OVERPASS OVER THE

                    TACONIC STATE PARKWAY.  AND A LOT OF OUR COLLEAGUES THAT COMMUTE UP

                    TO ALBANY OR DRIVE UP TO ALBANY, THIS WAS A VERY DANGEROUS

                    INTERSECTION ON THE TACONIC STATE PARKWAY WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAD A

                    SCHOOL BUS TRAVELING OVER THE TACONIC, STOPPING IN THE MEDIAN AND

                    THEN GOING BACK OVER THE NORTHBOUND.  WE ACTUALLY HAD A TOWN HALL

                    FORUM.  IT WAS BEFORE I WAS ELECTED AND I WAS PRESENT WITH MY

                    PREDECESSOR STEVE KATZ IN ATTENDANCE.  SENATOR TERRY GIPSON WAS

                    THERE, TRYING TO ADVOCATE FOR THIS CAPITAL PROJECT TO HAPPEN.  FORMER

                    CONGRESSMAN [SIC] SUE KELLY, WHO I INTERNED FOR MANY YEARS AGO,

                    BROUGHT BACK FEDERAL DOLLARS FOR THIS PROJECT.  IT NEVER HAPPENED.

                    FINALLY, ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO THE PROJECT MOVED.  IT WAS A $28 MILLION

                    PROJECT, AND IT HAPPENED.  THE -- THE OVERPASS OPENED UP ABOUT A YEAR

                    OR SO AGO.  I MISSED THE GROUNDBREAKING, BUT HERE IN TIME TO AT LEAST

                    RENAME IT AFTER SOMEBODY.  WE WERE INITIALLY TRYING TO DEDICATE IT AFTER

                    TWO PROMINENT PUTNAM VALLEY PEOPLE, JIM GORDON AND JOE MARRA,

                    BOTH FIRST RESPONDERS, BOTH U.S. SERVICE MEMBERS, BOTH PUBLIC SERVANTS

                    IN THE TOWN OF PUTNAM VALLEY, BUT WE HAD TO SHORTEN THE NAME.  SO

                                         137



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WE DECIDED TO CONSOLIDATE IT AS PUTNAM VALLEY FIRST RESPONDERS

                    BECAUSE FEW PEOPLE KNOW MORE ABOUT HOW VALUED THAT BRIDGE IS THAN

                    THE FIRST RESPONDERS BECAUSE IT NOW CONNECTS THAT COMMUNITY

                    (INAUDIBLE) WITH THE REST OF PUTNAM VALLEY AND IT'S GOING TO BE A

                    TREMENDOUS ASSET.  AND I WANT TO THANK ALL MY COLLEAGUES FOR

                    SUPPORTING IT.  IT'S BEEN AN HONOR SERVING IN THE ASSEMBLY AND HAVING

                    ALL THE PRODUCTIVE DEBATES.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BYRNE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08535-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 548, JENSEN, SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM

                    AS THE "SPECIALIST JASON HASENAUER MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    JENSEN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8681-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                                         138



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08549-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 549, BURDICK, GALLAGHER, MEEKS, SEAWRIGHT, SANTABARBARA,

                    ENGLEBRIGHT, J.M. GIGLIO, HEVESI, SAYEGH, LAWLER, WOERNER,

                    GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, SILLITTI, STERN, RA, DESTEFANO, J.A. GIGLIO, SIMON,

                    EPSTEIN, MCDONALD.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO PREFERRED SOURCE STATUS FOR ENTITIES THAT PROVIDE EMPLOYMENT

                    TO CERTAIN PERSONS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS

                    UPON THE EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    BURDICK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 7578-C.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BURDICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                         139



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. BURDICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  THIS BILL UPDATES A PROVISION IN THE NEW YORK STATE FINANCE

                    LAW KNOWN AS THE PREFERRED SOURCE PROGRAM WHICH PROVIDES THAT NEW

                    YORK STATE AGENCIES PROVIDE A PREFERENCE IN THE AWARD OF CONTRACTS TO

                    FIRMS THAT PROVIDE EMPLOYMENT FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.  THE BILL

                    UPDATES AND MODERNIZES THIS 45-YEAR-OLD TRADITION NOT JUST BY REPLACING

                    ARCHAIC TERMS, BUT BY ADJUSTING WORK RATIOS AND THRESHOLDS FOR REVIEW

                    TO MAKE IT EASIER BOTH FOR STATE AGENCIES AND FIRMS DOING BUSINESS WITH

                    THEM.  THE BILL CAME ABOUT FROM TESTIMONY PRESENTED AT ASSEMBLY

                    HEARINGS LAST FALL ON BARRIERS TO EMPLOYMENT FOR PEOPLE WITH

                    DISABILITIES HELD BY THE LABOR COMMITTEE, THE COMMITTEE ON PEOPLE

                    WITH DISABILITIES AND THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES

                    FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, WHICH I HAVE THE HONOR OF CHAIRING.  I'M

                    GRATEFUL FOR THE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR THIS MEASURE AND THE HELP WHICH

                    STAFF PROVIDED IN SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVING THE BILL.  I ALSO WISH TO THANK

                    TOM ABINANTI, CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE ON PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES;

                    KEN ZEBROWSKI, CHAIR OF THE GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS COMMITTEE AND

                    STAFF, AND EACH -- EACH SECOND ALONG THE WAY THEY PITCHED IN.  AND OF

                    COURSE, SPEAKER HEASTIE FOR ALLOWING THIS BILL TO COME TO THE FLOOR.

                    FINALLY, I WISH TO THANK MAUREEN O'BRIEN, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF

                    THE NON-PROFIT NEW YORK STATE INDUSTRY [SIC] FOR THE DISABLED.

                                 I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                         140



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08630-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 550, REYES, THIELE, FORREST.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING COSMETIC

                    PRODUCTS AND PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS THAT CONTAIN MERCURY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JULY 1, 2023.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8630-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08681, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 551, CRUZ, JACKSON, DILAN BURGOS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL

                    PROCEDURE LAW, IN RELATION TO RULES OF EVIDENCE CONCERNING THE

                    ADMISSIBILITY OF EVIDENCE OF A DEFENDANT'S CREATIVE EXPRESSION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    CRUZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED

                    AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09046-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 552, GALLAHAN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN

                                         141



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE

                    "RALPH CALABRESE MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    GALLAHAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8085-C.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09068-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 553, ANGELINO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM THE "1LT

                    STEPHEN H. DOANE MEMORIAL BRIDGE."

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    ANGELINO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         142



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 7903-B.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09099-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 554, CUSICK, SIMON.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR THE AUTOMATED IDENTIFICATION OF

                    AFFORDABILITY PROGRAM PARTICIPANTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9099-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09215, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 555, MCDONALD, ENGLEBRIGHT, BUTTENSCHON, LUPARDO, WOERNER,

                    SEAWRIGHT, THIELE, COLTON, GOTTFRIED, AUBRY, GALEF, SIMON, JACOBSON,

                                         143



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    GLICK, BRABENEC, J.A. GIGLIO, ANGELINO, BYRNE, SILLITTI, O'DONNELL,

                    STECK, FAHY, DICKENS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO ENSURING IDENTICAL HEALTH BENEFITS FOR SKILLED NURSING CARE

                    FOR PUBLIC RETIREES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    MCDONALD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8192.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09255-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 556, LEMONDES.  AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 996 OF THE LAWS

                    OF 1965 RELATING TO INCORPORATING THE FAIRMOUNT VOLUNTEER EXEMPT

                    FIREMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION AND PROVIDING FOR ITS POWERS AND

                    DUTIES, IN RELATION TO ITS PURPOSE AND THE USE OF FOREIGN FIRE INSURANCE

                    PREMIUM TAXES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    LEMONDES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                                         144



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8344-A. THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09325, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 557, ABBATE, JONES, CUSICK, MCDONALD, WALLACE, ENGLEBRIGHT,

                    BURDICK, ROZIC, TAPIA, GRIFFIN, LAVINE, WOERNER, ZEBROWSKI,

                    BARNWELL, SILLITTI, GUNTHER, STERN, CYMBROWITZ, THIELE, SOLAGES, FAHY,

                    LUPARDO, CLARK, CONRAD, AUBRY, RAMOS, FALL, COLTON, BARRETT,

                    DESTEFANO, DURSO, PHEFFER AMATO, ABINANTI, DARLING, JEAN-PIERRE, J.A.

                    GIGLIO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A 20-YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN FOR MEMBERS OR

                    OFFICERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    ABBATE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         145



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8477.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09326-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 558, SILLITTI.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY

                    OF NASSAU ASSESSOR TO ACCEPT AN APPLICATION FOR A REAL PROPERTY TAX

                    EXEMPTION FROM THE NASSAU CEMETERY ASSOCIATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9326-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09334-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 559, J.A. GIGLIO.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE

                                         146



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    COUNTY OF SUFFOLK TO TRANSFER OWNERSHIP OF CERTAIN PARKLAND TO THE

                    TOWN OF SOUTHOLD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    GIGLIO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 7739-C.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09335-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 560, FITZPATRICK.  AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF SUFFOLK

                    AND THE TOWN OF SMITHTOWN, LOCATED IN THE COUNTY OF SUFFOLK, TO

                    EXCHANGE CERTAIN PARKLANDS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9335-B.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                                         147



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  ARE THERE

                    ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09343-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 561, MAGNARELLI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO VEHICLE COST RECOVERY FEES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  READ THE

                    LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  THE

                    CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON A9343-B.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. MONTESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. MONTESANO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER,

                    TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS BEING PRO-BUSINESS AND

                    UNDERSTANDING THE OVERHEADS AND COSTS THAT BUSINESSES HAVE,

                    SOMETIMES THEY NEED TO PASS THINGS OVER TO THE CONSUMER.  AND THIS

                                         148



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PARTICULAR BILL ALLOWS NOW RENTAL CAR COMPANIES TO PASS ON TO THE

                    CONSUMER WHEN THEY CALCULATE ADDITIONAL PRICING FOR THE CAR, WHAT IT

                    COST THE CAR RENTAL AGENCY TO PAY FOR TITLE, REGISTRATION, INSPECTION, ET

                    CETERA, TO BE ADDITIONAL CHARGES.  AND I THINK WHAT HAPPENS IS IN THE

                    CAR RENTAL AGENCIES, THEY HAVE ADVERTISED LOW PRICES, YOU KNOW, TO GET

                    THE CONSUMER TO COME IN AND RENT THE CAR, AND THEN THEY LAY ON TOP OF

                    THEM ALL THESE EXTRA CHARGES THAT INFLATES THE PRICE OF THE RENTAL, YOU

                    KNOW, AS SEPARATE AND APART FROM THE INITIAL RENTAL FEE.

                                 I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT DECEPTIVE AND I THINK ALSO THAT

                    THESE RENTAL CAR COMPANIES HAVE TO INCUR THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS.

                    THEY BUY A NEW CAR, THEY PUT IT ON THE ROAD TO RENT OUT, THEY GOT TO PAY

                    FOR THE REGISTRATION AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES WITH IT.  I DON'T THINK

                    IT NEEDS TO BE THE RENTER'S EXPENSE.  IF THEY WANT TO PASS ON ALL THESE

                    EXPENSES TO THE RENTER, THEN IT SHOULD BE ALL INCLUDED INTO THE PRICE THAT

                    THEY ADVERTISE, YOU KNOW, FOR THE RENTAL OF THE CAR SO PEOPLE KNOW UP

                    FRONT WHAT IT'S COSTING THEM, AND THEN THEY COMPARE BETWEEN DIFFERENT

                    RENTAL CAR AGENCIES.  SO LIKEWISE, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  READ THE

                    LAST SECTION -- I'M SORRY.  I APOLOGIZE -- ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?

                    ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09418-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 562, CRUZ, FERNANDEZ, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, HEVESI, REYES,

                                         149



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    QUART, EPSTEIN, FAHY, TAYLOR, SIMON, SOLAGES, GOTTFRIED, MCDONALD,

                    GLICK, L. ROSENTHAL, DE LOS SANTOS, FORREST, SEAWRIGHT.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO ENACTING THE LORENA BORJAS TRANSGENDER AND GENDER NON-BINARY

                    (TGNB) WELLNESS AND EQUITY FUND.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  ON A

                    MOTION BY MS. CRUZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE

                    BILL IS ADVANCED.  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09435, RULES -- RULES

                    REPORT NO. 563, SOLAGES, DARLING, ZINERMAN, AUBRY, DICKENS,

                    PRETLOW, WILLIAMS, WALKER, PEOPLES-STOKES, COOK, VANEL, HYNDMAN,

                    CAHILL, JEAN-PIERRE, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, TAYLOR, DILAN, JOYNER,

                    BENEDETTO, EPSTEIN, FRONTUS, REYES, NOLAN, O'DONNELL, CRUZ, JACKSON,

                    BURGOS, FORREST, ANDERSON, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, J. RIVERA, GIBBS, OTIS,

                    GALLAGHER, RAMOS, GOTTFRIED.  AN ACT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE FUNDAMENTAL

                    INJUSTICE, CRUELTY, BRUTALITY AND INHUMANITY OF SLAVERY IN THE CITY OF

                    NEW YORK AND THE STATE OF NEW YORK; TO ESTABLISH THE NEW YORK

                    STATE COMMUNITY COMMISSION ON REPARATIONS REMEDIES, TO EXAMINE

                    THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY, SUBSEQUENTLY DE JURE AND DE FACTO RACIAL AND

                    ECONOMIC DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AFRICAN-AMERICANS, AND THE IMPACT

                    OF THESE FORCES ON LIVING AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND TO MAKE

                    DETERMINATIONS REGARDING COMPENSATION; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL

                    OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  THE BILL

                    IS LAID ASIDE.

                                         150



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09456, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 564, MAGNARELLI, HUNTER.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO COMMUTER PASSES ON THE NEW YORK STATE THRUWAY

                    IN THE SYRACUSE AREA; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS

                    UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  THE BILL

                    IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09623, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 565, ABBATE, AUBRY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

                    SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO MODIFYING THE RETIREMENT PROGRAM FOR

                    TRIBOROUGH BRIDGE AND TUNNEL MEMBERS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  READ THE

                    LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  THE

                    CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON 9623.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PROVIDED --

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09756-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 566, JEAN-PIERRE.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE

                                         151



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    "WYANDANCH HEALTH AND WELLNESS CENTER DESIGN-BUILD ACT"; AND

                    PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  ON A

                    MOTION BY MS. JEAN-PIERRE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE

                    SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  THE

                    CLERK -- THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON 9756-A.  THIS -- AND SENATE

                    BILL S8531-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE

                    RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR

                    MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09893, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 567, MCDONALD.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE OAKWOOD

                    COMMUNITY CENTER TO FILE AN APPLICATION FOR A REAL PROPERTY TAX

                    EXEMPTION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  ON A

                    MOTION BY MR. MCDONALD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE

                    SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  THE

                    CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON SENATE 8818.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.

                                         152



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09907-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 568, KELLES, MITAYNES, FAHY, ENGLEBRIGHT, OTIS.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE LOCAL FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING A PERIOD OF

                    PROBABLE USEFULNESS FOR BROADBAND AND RELATED TELECOMMUNICATIONS

                    INFRASTRUCTURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  READ THE

                    LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  THE

                    CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON A9907 [SIC].  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09968, RULES REPORT

                                         153



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NO. 569, PAULIN, ZINERMAN, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 154 OF THE

                    LAWS OF 1921, RELATING TO THE PORT AUTHORITY OF NEW YORK AND NEW

                    JERSEY, IN RELATION TO THE OPERATION OF A YOUTH SERVICE UNIT WITHIN THE

                    PORT AUTHORITY POLICE DEPARTMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  ON A

                    MOTION BY MS. PAULIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE

                    BILL IS ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  THE

                    CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON SENATE 8907.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.

                    ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10002-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 570, DARLING.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE VILLAGE

                    OF FREEPORT, COUNTY OF NASSAU, TO ALIENATE AND DISCONTINUE THE USE OF

                    CERTAIN PARKLANDS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  HOME

                    RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER PHEFFER AMATO:  THE

                                         154



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE ON 10002-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10028, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 571, PRETLOW.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE RACING, PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING

                    AND BREEDING LAW, IN RELATION TO ALLOWING NEW YORK SIRE STAKES

                    ELIGIBILITY FOR FOALS SIRED BY NEW YORK STATE STALLIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 10028.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10041-A, RULES

                                         155



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    REPORT NO. 572, SILLITTI, RA.  AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE VILLAGE OF

                    MINEOLA, COUNTY OF NASSAU, TO ALIENATE CERTAIN PARKLANDS FOR USE IN THE

                    VILLAGE OF MINEOLA PUBLIC WATER SUPPLY SYSTEM AND REPLACE SUCH

                    ALIENATED PARKLAND WITH A NEW, DEDICATED PARKLAND.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    SILLITTI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8895-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. RA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK -- THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I JUST

                    QUICKLY WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HER PARTNERSHIP IN -- IN GETTING

                    THIS DONE FOR THE VILLAGE OF MINEOLA, AS WELL AS OUR CHAIR OF LOCAL

                    GOVERNMENTS FOR THEIR ASSISTANCE.  IT'S GOING TO HELP THE VILLAGE MOVE

                    FORWARD WITH A PROJECT, SO I'M GLAD IT'S GETTING DONE.  I CAST MY VOTE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         156



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10072, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 573, DICKENS, BICHOTTE HERMELYN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A CAPTIVE INSURANCE PROGRAM FOR

                    COMMUTER VANS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10095, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 574, OTIS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO IMPLEMENTING A RESIDENTIAL PARKING SYSTEM IN THE CITY OF

                    RYE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    OTIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

                    HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8939.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10113, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 575, MCDONALD, FAHY.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY

                    ACTIONS AND PROCEEDINGS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING A PETITION IN A

                    SUMMARY PROCEEDING TO RECOVER POSSESSION OF REAL PROPERTY IN THE CITY

                                         157



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OF ALBANY TO ALLEGE PROOF OF COMPLIANCE WITH LOCAL LAWS REQUIRING

                    RENTAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY REGISTRATION AND LICENSURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT A10113.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10140, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 576, LUNSFORD.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO REPLACING AN INSTANCE OF THE OFFICE OF ALCOHOLISM AND

                    SUBSTANCE ABUSE SERVICES WITH THE OFFICE OF ADDICTION SERVICES AND

                    SUPPORTS; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 378 OF THE LAWS OF 2019 RELATING TO

                    CREATING A PUBLIC EDUCATION INITIATIVE DESIGNED TO ELIMINATE STIGMA AND

                    MISINFORMATION ABOUT MENTAL ILLNESS AND SUBSTANCE USE AMONG MILITARY

                    SERVICE MEMBERS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    LUNSFORD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         158



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9408.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10168, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 577, COMMITTEE ON RULES (PRETLOW).  AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE

                    ALIENATION OF CERTAIN PARKLANDS REQUIRED TO SUPPORT THE REDEVELOPMENT

                    OF THE HISTORIC GLENWOOD POWER PLANT, UNIQUELY LOCATED ON THE HUDSON

                    RIVER IN THE CITY OF YONKERS, WHICH SITE LACKS ANY LAND FOR PARKING,

                    AND WHICH PROJECT WAS CONTEMPLATED IN THE APPROVED MAY 2009 CITY

                    OF YONKERS ALEXANDER STREET MASTER PLAN WITH A NEW ROAD NETWORK

                    CONNECTING ALEXANDER STREET TO THE SOUTH PAST THE GLENWOOD POWER

                    PLANT THROUGH JOHN F. KENNEDY MARINA AND TREVOR PARK NORTH TO

                    PROVIDE INCREASED PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE HUDSON RIVER AND ENHANCE SAID

                    PARKS THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT OF A NEW SUSTAINABLE RIVERFRONT,

                    TRANSIT-ORIENTED PROJECT BY ENHANCING THE EXISTING PARKS WITH NEW

                    AMENITIES; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 125 OF THE LAWS OF 2013, RELATING

                    TO AUTHORIZING THE ALIENATION OF CERTAIN PARKLAND REQUIRED TO SUPPORT

                    THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE HISTORIC GLENWOOD POWER PLANT, UNIQUELY

                    LOCATED ON THE HUDSON RIVER IN THE CITY OF YONKERS, WHICH SITE LACKS

                                         159



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ANY LAND FOR PARKING, AND WHICH PROJECT WAS CONTEMPLATED IN THE

                    APPROVED MAY 2009 CITY OF YONKERS ALEXANDER STREET MASTER PLAN

                    WITH A NEW ROAD NETWORK CONNECTING ALEXANDER STREET TO THE SOUTH

                    PAST THE GLENWOOD POWER PLANT THROUGH JOHN F. KENNEDY MARINA AND

                    TREVOR PARK NORTH TO PROVIDE INCREASED PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE HUDSON

                    RIVER AND ENHANCE SAID PARKS THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT OF A NEW

                    SUSTAINABLE RIVERFRONT, TRANSIT-ORIENTED PROJECT BY ENHANCING THE

                    EXISTING PARKS WITH NEW AMENITIES, IN RELATION THERETO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9111.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10176, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 578, COMMITTEE ON RULES (THIELE).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO LICENSES TO SELL LIQUOR

                    AT OFF-PREMISES CATERING ESTABLISHMENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         160



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 10176.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10205, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 579, COMMITTEE ON RULES (GALEF).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE VILLAGE OF COLD SPRING TO IMPOSE A HOTEL

                    AND MOTEL TAX; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON

                    EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 10205.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                         161



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WE HAVE A

                    FEW EXCEPTIONS:  MS. MCMAHON, MR. BARNWELL, MR. STIRPE, MS.

                    BARNETT [SIC], AND MR. RAMOS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MY

                    COLLEAGUE MR. REILLY IN THE NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10216-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 580, COMMITTEE ON RULES (PAULIN, DINOWITZ, ENGLEBRIGHT,

                    BURDICK, ABINANTI, CUSICK, TAYLOR, FALL, GLICK, QUART, FERNANDEZ,

                    NIOU, BURGOS, REILLY, SAYEGH, SEAWRIGHT, CARROLL, JEAN-PIERRE,

                    DICKENS, REYES, AUBRY, EPSTEIN, SILLITTI, JOYNER, L. ROSENTHAL, J. D.

                    RIVERA, JACOBSON, SEPTIMO, THIELE, CLARK, BUTTENSCHON, MCDONALD,

                    MCMAHON, STERN, PRETLOW, RAMOS, VANEL, J. RIVERA, ROZIC, OTIS,

                    DURSO, MORINELLO, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, TANNOUSIS, DESTEFANO, GRIFFIN,

                    SOLAGES, WOERNER, GALEF, MIKULIN, BURKE, BRONSON, GALLAGHER, CRUZ,

                    FORREST, SIMON, LUPARDO, HYNDMAN, LAVINE, GANDOLFO, SMITH, COOK,

                    MCDONOUGH).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PROTECTING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS BETWEEN PUBLIC SERVICE

                    COMPANIES AND THEIR EMPLOYEES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                                         162



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PAULIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8919.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10244, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 581, COMMITTEE ON RULES (J. D. RIVERA).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO A LICENSE TO SELL LIQUOR

                    AT RETAIL FOR CONSUMPTION ON CERTAIN PREMISES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    RIVERA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9371.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                         163



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10271, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 582, COMMITTEE ON RULES (WOERNER).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PRIVATE

                    HOUSING FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO INCREASING THE TIMELINE FOR

                    COMPLETION AND AMOUNT SPENT ON EMERGENCY HOME REPAIRS FOR

                    LOW-MODERATE INCOME SENIOR CITIZENS THROUGH THE RESTORE PROGRAM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 10271.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10280, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 583, COMMITTEE ON RULES (STERN).  AN ACT IN RELATION TO

                    ESTABLISHING A CAUMSETT STATE PARK FIRE READINESS STUDY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    STERN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         164



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9019.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10393, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 584, COMMITTEE ON RULES (CAHILL).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    NAVIGATION LAW, IN RELATION TO HUDSON RIVER PILOTAGE FEES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    CAHILL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST,

                    2023.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9128-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10427, RULES REPORT

                                         165



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NO. 545, COMMITTEE ON RULES (PAULIN, GALEF, BURDICK, SAYEGH,

                    ABINANTI, OTIS).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE JUDICIARY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS FOR STENOGRAPHERS IN THE COUNTY OF

                    WESTCHESTER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    PAULIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8985.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. LAWLER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  SEEING THE

                    WORD "STENOGRAPHER" SEEMS LIKE A VERY APPROPRIATE TIME TO THANK OUR

                    TWO STENOGRAPHERS WHO DO A GREAT JOB DAY IN, DAY OUT, KEEPING TRACK OF

                    ALL THE WONDERFUL THINGS THAT WE SAY ON THE FLOOR OF THE NEW YORK

                    STATE ASSEMBLY.  SEEMS VERY RELEVANT TO THE BILL, SO I JUST WANTED TO

                    TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO THANK OUR STENOGRAPHERS FOR ALL OF THEIR HARD

                    WORK.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AND YOU MAY DELETE

                    ANY OF MR. LAWLER'S STATEMENTS AT YOUR WILL.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                         166



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  PRESUMABLY THE TRANSCRIPT WILL SAY

                    RAUCOUS, STANDING OVATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  NO DOUBT.  DESERVED

                    OVATION, TOO.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10440, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 586, COMMITTEE ON RULES (BRAUNSTEIN, PHEFFER AMATO).  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO A REBATE AGAINST REAL

                    PROPERTY TAXES FOR CERTAIN OWNERS OF REAL PROPERTY IN THE CITY OF NEW

                    YORK FOR THE FISCAL YEAR COMMENCING ON THE 1ST OF JULY, 2021.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    BRAUNSTEIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9399.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         167



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10442, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 587, COMMITTEE ON RULES (WEPRIN).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

                    PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO THE DETERMINATION OF ADJUSTED BASE

                    PROPORTIONS IN SPECIAL ASSESSING UNITS WHICH ARE CITIES.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9372.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10444, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 588, COMMITTEE ON RULES (QUART).  AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 538

                    OF THE LAWS OF 2013, AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO THE ESTATE TAX

                    TREATMENT OF DISPOSITIONS TO SURVIVING SPOUSES WHO ARE NOT UNITED

                    STATES CITIZENS, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF THE PROVISIONS

                    THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    QUART, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9398.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                                         168



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10450, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 589, COMMITTEE ON RULES (FAHY).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO THE PURCHASE OR LEASE OF ZERO EMISSION VEHICLES FOR

                    STATE-OWNED VEHICLE FLEETS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    FAHY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED

                    AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10455, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 590, COMMITTEE ON RULES (BARRETT).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE

                    MANUFACTURE OF BEER, SPIRITS, CIDER, WINE AND MEAD AT THE CULINARY

                    INSTITUTE OF AMERICA; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH LAW

                    RELATING THERETO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MRS.

                    BARRETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8989-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                                         169



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10459, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 591, COMMITTEE ON RULES (BICHOTTE-HERMELYN).  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE NEW YORK CITY CHARTER, IN RELATION TO OPPORTUNITIES FOR BUSINESSES

                    OWNED BY WOMEN AND MINORITIES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    BICHOTTE-HERMELYN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE

                    BILL IS ADVANCED AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10461, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 592, COMMITTEE ON RULES (DINOWITZ, WEPRIN).  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE NEW YORK CITY CIVIL COURT ACT, IN RELATION TO MONETARY

                    JURISDICTIONAL LIMITS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9377.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                         170



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10470, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 593, COMMITTEE ON RULES (DINOWITZ).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    JUDICIARY LAW, IN RELATION TO MAKING TECHNICAL CHANGES TO PROVISIONS

                    PROVIDING FOR CERTIFICATION FOR SERVICE AS A RETIRED JUDGE OF THE COURT OF

                    APPEALS OR A RETIRED JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9341.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10476, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 594, COMMITTEE ON RULES (MCMAHON).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO MEDICAL ASSISTANCE TO CERTAIN

                    DISABLED INDIVIDUALS.

                                         171



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 10476.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10491, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 595, COMMITTEE ON RULES (COOK).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PENAL

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO ASSAULTS UPON CERTAIN EMPLOYEES OF A TRANSIT AGENCY

                    OR AUTHORITY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 10491.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                         172



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09193-B, CALENDAR

                    NO. 560, ROZIC.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO FRAUD IN CONNECTION WITH AN ABNORMAL DISRUPTION OF THE

                    MARKET.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MS.

                    ROZIC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MS. ROZIC.

                                 MS. ROZIC:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL

                    AMENDS THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, AND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW'S

                    349 NEW YORK'S DECEPTIVE ACTS LAW, PROTECT CONSUMERS AND OTHERS

                    FROM DECEPTIVE ACTS AND PRACTICES.  IT'S ONE OF THE STATES'S PRIMARY AND

                    MOST-OFTEN USED CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS.  UNLIKE THE PRICE GOUGING

                    LAW, WHICH IS GENERAL BUSINESS LAW SECTION 396R, THE DECEPTIVE ACTS

                    LAW DOES NOT TREAT DECEPTIVE CONDUCT DIFFERENTLY IF IT IS DONE DURING A

                    TIME OF EMERGENCY, AND WE HAVE SEEN DURING THIS PANDEMIC -- OR WE

                    SAW DURING THIS PANDEMIC UNSCRUPULOUS BUSINESSES TRYING TO TAKE

                    ADVANTAGE OF CONSUMERS OR OTHER BUSINESSES BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULT

                    ECONOMIC AND PUBLIC HEALTH CIRCUMSTANCES.  BUT THE STATE DOES NOT

                    HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO IMPOSE ELEVATED FINES ASSOCIATED WITH THE PRICE

                    GOUGING LAW, SO THIS BILL WILL CHANGE THAT.  IT HELPS ENSURE THAT ANY

                    BUSINESS THAT ENGAGES IN DECEPTIVE CONDUCT DURING A TIME OF

                                         173



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    EMERGENCY WILL BE SUBJECT TO STRONGER PENALTIES, SIMILAR TO THE STATE'S

                    PRICE GOUGING LAW, AND THE PENALTY WILL BE UP TO 15,000 PER VIOLATION,

                    OR THREE TIMES THE ACTUAL RESTITUTION NEEDED, WHICHEVER IS GREATER.  IT

                    ALSO GIVES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AUTHORITY TO MAKE REGULATIONS

                    REASONABLY NECESSARY TO IMPLEMENT THIS ACT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MIKULIN.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  THANK YOU.  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. ROZIC WILL YIELD.

                                 MS. ROZIC:  YES.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  JUST A FEW VERY SHORT QUESTIONS HERE.

                    FIRST, WE TALK ABOUT ABNORMAL CHANGES IN -- OR DISRUPTION OF THE

                    MARKET.  CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT FURTHER?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  SURE.  SO FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS BILL,

                    THE PHRASE "ABNORMAL DISRUPTION OF THE MARKET" AS DEFINED IN THE BILL

                    SHALL MEAN ANY CHANGE IN THE MARKET, WHETHER ACTUAL OR IMMINENTLY

                    THREATENED RESULTING FROM STRESS OF WEATHER, CONVULSION OF NATURE,

                    FAILURE OR SHORTAGE OF ELECTRIC POWER OR OTHER SOURCE OF ENERGY, STRIKE,

                    CIVIL DISORDER, WAR, MILITARY ACTION, NATIONAL OR LOCAL EMERGENCY, OR

                    OTHER CAUSE OF AN ABNORMAL DISRUPTION OF THE MARKET WHICH RESULTS IN

                    THE DECLARATION OF A STATE OF EMERGENCY BY THE GOVERNOR.  IT IS SIMILARLY

                    REFLECTIVE OF THE PRICE GOUGING LAW.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT STATE OF

                    EMERGENCY, WHAT SPECIFICALLY -- COULD IT BE A LOCAL EMERGENCY AS WELL,

                    OR WOULD THAT JUST APPLY TO THE LOCAL LOCALITY?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  THIS BILL JUST SAYS THAT THE DECLARATION

                                         174



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OF A STATE OF EMERGENCY BY THE GOVERNOR.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  OKAY.  AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

                    STATE OF EMERGENCY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PANDEMIC, CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  A PANDEMIC WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  SO ISN'T IT TRUE THAT WE'RE IN A STATE

                    OF EMERGENCY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  AS LONG AS THE GOVERNOR HAS DECLARED IT

                    A STATE OF EMERGENCY, IT WOULD BE COVERED BY THIS.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  SO WE COULD PARTICULARLY HAVE A

                    CONTINUED STATE OF EMERGENCY IN THIS STATE, CORRECT?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  SAY THAT A LITTLE LOUDER, I COULDN'T HEAR

                    YOU.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WE COULD HAVE A CONTINUED STATE OF

                    EMERGENCY THEN?

                                 MS. ROZIC:  WE ARE STILL CURRENTLY IN A STATE OF

                    EMERGENCY ACCORDING TO THE GOVERNOR.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WITH -- ACCORDING TO -- WITH ALMOST

                    NO MEANS TO -- WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THIS IS EVEN GOING TO END, THIS

                    COULD GO ON FOR YEARS.

                                 MS. ROZIC:  THAT'S NOT UP TO ME.  THAT'S NOT SPOKEN

                    FOR IN THIS BILL, BUT I CAN TELL YOU WITHOUT AN ACTIVELY DECLARED STATE OF

                    EMERGENCY, THERE WOULD BE NO ABNORMAL DISRUPTION IN THE MARKET

                    REQUIRED TO TRIGGER THE BILL.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                         175



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  I THINK THIS BILL IS VERY

                    WELL-INTENTIONED, BUT UNFORTUNATELY AS WE'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST TWO

                    YEARS, WE ARE IN A CONTINUED STATE OF EMERGENCY, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT

                    COMES DOWN TO COVID.  NOW, IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS MORE OF A

                    DISRUPTION OF THE MARKET AS WE ALL SAW, BUT NOW WE HAVE COME TO A

                    SINCE OF NORMALCY AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS GIVING TOO MUCH POWER

                    TO THE GOVERNOR AND FOR THAT REASON, I'M GOING TO BE IN THE NEGATIVE

                    AND I HOPE MY COLLEAGUES DO THE SAME.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY BILL -- - EXCUSE ME, SENATE BILL 4954-C.  THIS IS

                    A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION

                    TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR

                    MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION.  THOSE

                    WHO SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED TO VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR OR BY

                    CONTACTING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE

                    MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION;

                                         176



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY

                    SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE, WE WILL MAKE

                    SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 270, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10188-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 270, COMMITTEE ON RULES (PHEFFER AMATO).  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE FILLING

                    OF BORROW PITS IN JAMAICA BAY; TO AMEND CHAPTER 288 OF THE LAWS OF

                    2014 AMENDING THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW RELATING TO THE

                    FILLING OF BORROW PITS IN JAMAICA BAY, IN RELATION TO MAKING THE

                    PROVISIONS OF SUCH CHAPTER PERMANENT; IN RELATION TO DIRECTING THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION TO CONDUCT A STUDY ON

                    ECOLOGICAL RESTORATION NEEDS IN JAMAICA BAY; AND PROVIDING FOR THE

                    REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  ON A MOTION BY THE

                    SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE -- OH.  ON BEHALF OF MEMBER PHEFFER

                    AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    THIS BILL WILL RAISE THE STANDARDS OF FILL THAT IS PUT INTO JAMAICA BAY, AN

                                         177



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    18,000 SQUARE ACRE OF BEAUTIFUL NATURAL RESOURCES LOCATED WITHIN MY

                    COMMUNITY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO:  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I SEE THAT

                    THIS BILL HAS BEEN VETOED SEVERAL TIMES -- PASSED THIS ASSEMBLY SEVERAL

                    TIMES AND BEEN VETOED BY THE GOVERNOR SEVERAL TIMES, INCLUDING IN

                    2014, '16, LOOKS LIKE '18 AND '20.  HAS THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL BEEN

                    AMENDED OR HAVE THE GOVERNOR'S CONCERNS BEEN ADDRESSED?

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO:  THE BILL HAS BEEN AMENDED

                    FROM THE TIMES IT WAS VETOED.  IT'S ACTUALLY HAVING A SUNSET, IT WOULD

                    EXPIRE AT THE END OF THIS MONTH, AND WE HAVE AMENDED THE BILL TO

                    INCLUDE A STUDY TO LOOK AT LONG-TERM PLANS FOR THE JAMAICA BAY AREA, IN

                    ADDITION TO RAISING THE LEVEL OF CHECKING ON THE CONTAMINANTS THAT

                    WOULD BE IN THE FILL THAT GOES INTO THE BORROW PITS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND AM I CORRECT THAT UNDER THE

                    CURRENT VERSION --

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO:  I'M SORRY, CAN YOU...

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AM I CORRECT THAT UNDER THE CURRENT

                                         178



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    VERSION IF THE DREDGED MATERIAL TESTS RELATIVELY CLEAN THAT IT WOULD

                    QUALIFY FOR UNLIMITED OCEAN DEPOSITION, DOESN'T HAVE ANY HIGH LEVELS OF

                    CONTAMINATION AND WOULDN'T CAUSE ANY SHORT-TERM OR LONG-TERM

                    POLLUTION ISSUES IT CAN BE USED; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. PHEFFER-AMATO:  CORRECT.  IN THE LAST 100

                    YEARS, THE BAY, WITH ITS LOCAL STEWARDS, HAVE MADE THE WATERS IN THE

                    BAY THE CLEANEST IT'S BEEN IN 100 YEARS.  WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD OUR FIRST

                    SEAL THIS YEAR.  SO YOU KNOW, IT'S A WETLAND, IT'S GROWING, IT'S VIBRANT,

                    IT'S AN ECONOMICAL ENGINE FOR OUR COMMUNITY, AND THE GOAL IS TO MAKE

                    IT AS CLEAN AS POSSIBLE.  WE UNDERSTAND THERE COULD BE BORROW PITS AND

                    THEY DO PUT DREDGE IN, BUT WE WANT THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF TESTING FOR THE

                    LEAST AMOUNT OF CONTAMINANTS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND I

                    APPRECIATE THOSE CLARIFICATIONS.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  AS IS OFTEN THE CASE

                    WITH LEGISLATION THAT WE ADDRESS HERE IN THE HOUSE, WE'RE DOING A

                    BALANCING ACT.  THE JAMAICA BAY AREA FROM TIME TO TIME NEEDS TO BE

                    DREDGED FOR NAVIGATIONAL PURPOSES, AND THERE ARE SOME DEEP PITS IN

                    JAMAICA BAY THAT WERE CREATED A LONG TIME AGO WHEN PEOPLE TOOK FILL

                    MATERIAL OUT OF THE BAY AND USED IT ON LAND.  IT'S MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE

                    TO USE THE DREDGED MATERIAL THAT'S NEARBY TO FILL THOSE PITS SOME THAN IT

                    IS TO TAKE IT OUT INTO THE OCEAN.  AND SO IF YOU'RE ONLY LOOKING AT THE

                    COST OF THE DREDGING TO MAINTAIN NAVIGATION, YOU'D SAY, WELL, LET'S FILL IN

                                         179



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THESE PITS THAT ARE NEARBY.

                                 THE SPONSOR CORRECTLY, I BELIEVE, STRIKES THE RIGHT

                    BALANCE BY SAYING, YEAH, YOU CAN DO THAT, BUT YOU FIRST HAVE TO

                    ESTABLISH THAT THE DREDGED MATERIALS WE'RE PUTTING IN THERE MEET

                    ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS, ARE NOT HIGHLY TOXIC, WON'T CAUSE EITHER

                    SHORT-TERM OR LONG-TERM ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES.  AND SO I THINK IT'S THE

                    RIGHT BALANCE AND FOR THAT REASON, I WOULD RECOMMEND IT TO MY

                    COLLEAGUES, AND I WOULD ALSO RECOMMEND IT TO THE GOVERNOR.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  MS. PHEFFER AMATO.

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO:  ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO:  JAMAICA BAY IS AN 18,000

                    THOUSAND ACRE WETLAND ESTUARY SURROUNDED BY THE ROCKAWAY

                    PENINSULA; TO THE SOUTH, BROOKLYN -- AND SOUTH TO BROOKLYN AND

                    QUEENS TO THE EAST.  IT IS A BEAUTIFUL JEWEL OF NEW YORK CITY.  YOU

                    HAVE TO -- YOU HAVE TO COME SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.  IT HAS, YOU KNOW,

                    WATER SPORTS, FAMILIES, FISH LIFE IS GOING, THERE'S DIVING IN THE WATER, IT'S

                    JUST BEAUTIFUL.  UNFORTUNATELY, PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE NOT

                    RECOGNIZED THE FACT THAT WE MUST PRESERVE OUR NATURAL HABITATS, THAT WE

                    MUST PRESERVE AREAS IN OUR COMMUNITIES THAT WE ALLOW DUMPING FOR

                    AND TO A REASON.  AND THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE FOR POINTING OUT THE

                    BALANCE THAT WE NEED TO HAVE.

                                 BUT AFTER ALL, IN THIS STATE WE'VE INVESTED SO MUCH

                    MONEY TO MAKE OUR WATERS CLEAN THAT IN OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES, WE

                                         180



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE AS LOCAL

                    ENVIRONMENTALISTS, STEWARDS OF OUR OWN BACKYARDS, THAT THE STATE HAS

                    TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE TO LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF CONTAMINANTS THAT ARE

                    LITERALLY IN OUR BACKYARD.  SO I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO

                    SPEAK ON THIS BILL AND ASK EVERYONE FOR THEIR SUPPORT.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE 886 -- EXCUSE ME, 8816-A.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.

                    ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. ENGLEBRIGHT TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MR. ENGLEBRIGHT:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I

                    WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR.  JAMAICA BAY IS THE LARGEST OF ALL OF THE

                    SEMI-RESTRICTED BAYS AROUND LONG ISLAND.  IT WAS THE ORIGINAL

                    SETTLEMENT OF LONG ISLAND BY THE DUTCH WHO LOOKED AT IT AND SAW THE

                    BEAUTIFUL MARSHES THERE AND SAID THIS IS JUST LIKE WHERE WE CAME FROM

                    IN HOLLAND IN THE 1600S.  UNFORTUNATELY IN THE EARLY PART OF THE LAST

                    CENTURY, JAMAICA BAY WAS JUST SPOILED BY DREDGE AND FILL OPERATIONS.

                    WE LOST 25,000 ACRES OF FRINGING MARSH.  MUCH OF THAT WAS DUE TO

                    EXTRACTION FROM THE BAY BOTTOM AND PLACED THE SEDIMENTS UPON THE

                    LIVING MARSH.

                                 THIS MEASURE IS VERY THOUGHTFUL.  IT WILL IMPROVE THE

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WATER CHEMISTRY OF THE HARBOR.  THE MAIN REASON FOR THAT IS THAT THE

                    DEEP BORROW PITS WILL BE LEVELED.  THE ANOXIC CONDITIONS AT THE BOTTOM

                    OF THE PITS WILL BE REMOVED, AND THE RESIDENT'S TIME OF POLLUTANTS

                    ENTERING THE ESTUARY WILL BE REDUCED.  THIS IS A VERY WISE AND

                    THOUGHTFUL MEASURE.  IT'S GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, IT'S GOOD FOR THE

                    PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK WHO ARE THE MAIN CONSTITUENTS WHO

                    WILL BE BENEFITTING.  I CONGRATULATE, AGAIN, THE SPONSOR, AND I VOTE AYE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  MR. ENGLEBRIGHT IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 10, RULES REPORT NO. 313, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07865-A, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 313, FAHY, WALLACE, OTIS, GRIFFIN, SILLITTI, LUPARDO,

                    MCDONALD, PAULIN, O'DONNELL, JACOBSON, WOERNER, ABINANTI, STIRPE,

                    MCMAHON, LUNSFORD, THIELE, ZEBROWSKI, CONRAD, BURDICK, CARROLL,

                    GLICK, SOLAGES, L. ROSENTHAL, STERN, RAMOS, CYMBROWITZ.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING SOCIAL MEDIA

                    NETWORKS TO PROVIDE AND MAINTAIN MECHANISMS FOR REPORTING HATEFUL

                    CONDUCT ON THEIR PLATFORM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  AN EXPLANATION HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. FAHY:  ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER, IS IN 7865,

                    AGAIN, AND THIS IS A BILL THAT WOULD -- ACTUALLY ORIGINATED A YEAR AGO

                                         182



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AFTER THE INSURRECTION IN THE CAPITOL AND GIVEN A NUMBER OF ISSUES WITH

                    THE SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORKS AND THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH

                    PEOPLE CONDUCT AND VIOLENCE BEING PORTRAYED AND POSTED ON SOCIAL

                    MEDIA.  IT WOULD NOW -- THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE A CLEAR AND CONCISE

                    POLICY REGARDING HOW SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS OR NETWORKS WOULD

                    RESPOND TO INCIDENCES OF HATEFUL CONDUCT ON THEIR PLATFORMS, AS WELL AS

                    HAVE THEM -- REQUIRE THEM TO MAINTAIN AN EASILY ACCESSIBLE MECHANISM

                    FOR REPORTING THAT CONDUCT ON THE PLATFORMS.  IT DOESN'T TELL THEM HOW, IT

                    JUST LAYS OUT THAT THEY -- THEY MUST HAVE ONE.  AND LET ME JUST ADD THAT

                    PART OF THIS IS WE NEED HELP.  WE HAVE SEEN THE GOVERNOR TALK ABOUT

                    SETTING UP A TASK FORCE AND TURNING -- A TASK FORCE AND TURNING TO THE

                    AG FOR ASSISTANCE WITH BETTER MONITORING AND WARNING SIGNS ON SOCIAL

                    MEDIA, BUT WE ALSO ARE REMINDED THAT AN ESTIMATED 4.75 BILLION, 4.75

                    BILLION POSTS ARE MADE EVERY DAY ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND THAT'S JUST AN

                    ESTIMATE.  SO WE NEED HELP.  WE NEED THESE -- THESE NETWORKS HELPING

                    US TO MONITOR AND PROVIDING INDIVIDUALS A VEHICLE FOR RECORDING HATEFUL

                    AND VIOLENT INTENDED CONDUCT.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  MR. DURSO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. SPEAKER.  WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS:  YES.

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MS. FAHY.  I JUST HAVE A

                    COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU.  SO, GOING TOWARDS THE BILL IT SAYS -- REALLY

                    WHAT DOES THE BILL DEFINE AS SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORK?  SO WILL IT JUST BE

                    SOMETHING LIKE A FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM OR WILL IT ALSO INCLUDE PRIVATE

                    MESSAGING APPS SUCH AS WHATSAPP OR SIGNAL OR ANY OTHER PRIVATE

                    MESSAGING APPLICATIONS?

                                 MS. FAHY:  IT -- IT COULD INCLUDE -- IT REALLY IS THE --

                    THE PROVIDERS.  AND WE -- WE DO INCLUDE A DEFINITION, IT'S VERY BRIEF.  I'LL

                    JUST -- I'LL JUST READ IT.  A NETWORK IS A PROVIDER FOR PROFIT-MAKING

                    PURPOSES THAT OPERATES INTERNET PLATFORMS THAT ARE DESIGNED TO ENABLE

                    USERS TO SHARE CONTENT WITH OTHER USERS OR TO MAKE THAT CONTENT

                    AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC.  SO I THINK ONE OF YOUR EXAMPLES MAY NOT

                    APPLY HERE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.

                                 MS. FAHY:  IT WOULD BE -- IT WOULD BE THOSE THAT ARE

                    SHARED WITH THE PUBLIC.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO -- SO NOT SO MUCH A PRIVATE

                    MESSAGING APP BETWEEN ME AND SOMEONE ELSE, BUT ANYTHING THAT COULD

                    BE VIEWED BY THE PUBLIC.

                                 MS. FAHY:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO WOULD THAT INCLUDE OUR ASSEMBLY

                    WEBSITE, FOR INSTANCE?

                                 MS. FAHY:  IF THE WEBSITE, WHERE YOU CAN POST ON IT,

                    I DON'T THINK --

                                 MR. DURSO:  WELL, ON OUR -- I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.  I

                                         184



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    APOLOGIZE.

                                 MS. FAHY:  I DON'T -- I'M NOT SURE THE PUBLIC CAN

                    ACCESS OUR WEBSITE.  WE MAKE POSTS ON THERE BUT I DON'T KNOW IF OUR

                    ACTUAL WEBSITE WOULD BE APPLICABLE HERE SINCE IT'S -- IT'S NOT -- WELL, IT'S

                    AVAILABLE TO -- WELL, I GUESS -- OH, I DON'T KNOW, I THINK THE -- A WEBSITE,

                    IT'S -- IT'S NOT AN EXCHANGE, THAT'S JUST A WEBSITE.  BUT I -- I --

                                 MR. DURSO:  WELL, I THINK I CAN ASK YOU A MORE

                    SPECIFIC QUESTION ABOUT IT, IF THAT'S OKAY.

                                 MS. FAHY:  YEAH, SURE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO, ON -- ON OUR ASSEMBLY WEBSITE, SO

                    IF YOU LOOK UP, SAY, FOR INSTANCE, MY ASSEMBLY PAGE THERE'LL BE THINGS

                    POSTED UP THERE FROM CERTAIN EVENTS THAT WE DO, WHETHER THEY'RE HERE IN

                    THE CAPITOL OR IN THE DISTRICT.  WOULD THEN THE WEBSITE FROM THE

                    ASSEMBLY, WHETHER MY -- YOU KNOW, MY SPECIFIC PAGE, YOURS, ANYBODY

                    ELSE IN THE CHAMBER, WOULD THAT CONSTITUTE A SOCIAL MEDIA WEBSITE?

                                 MS. FAHY:  I DON'T THINK IT MEETS THIS TYPE OF

                    DEFINITION ON SOCIAL MEDIA CONDUCT, BUT A SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORK.

                    HOWEVER, I WILL SAY OUR WEBSITE IS ALREADY CLOSELY MONITORED, JUST AS

                    OUR NEWSLETTERS ARE.  ALL OF THOSE ARE VETTED BEFORE ANY OF OUR VIDEO

                    CLIPS ARE PUT UP.  EVERYTHING IS VETTED.  SO WE -- WE DO MONITOR.  WE

                    CERTAINLY HAVE A RECORDING MECHANISM SINCE ALL OF OUR CONTACT

                    INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE, BUT -- BUT I'M NOT SURE WE MEET THE DEFINITION

                    OF A SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORK.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  WELL, I'M SURE I'LL

                    COME BACK TO THAT.

                                         185



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO JUST IN REGARDS TO IN THE -- THE

                    SUMMARY OF THE BILL, THERE'S PARTS -- THE TERM "HATEFUL CONDUCT" IS

                    DEFINED TO MEAN THE USE OF SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORK, VILIFY, HUMILIATE,

                    INCITE VIOLENCE AGAINST A GROUP OR CLASS OR PERSONS ON THE BASE OF RACE,

                    COLOR, RELIGION, ETHNICITY, NATIONAL ORIGIN, DISABILITY, SEX, SEXUAL

                    ORIENTATION, GENDER IDENTITY OR GENDER EXPRESSION.  I JUST WANTED TO GET

                    THROUGH ALL THE PIECES.  THE -- THE FIRST TWO THAT I WANT TO SPECIFICALLY

                    JUMP ON ARE "VILIFY" AND "HUMILIATE."  COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO ME IN

                    REGARDS TO THE BILL WHAT THOSE MEAN SPECIFICALLY?  BECAUSE THEY MAY

                    HAVE A DIFFERENT MEANING TO YOU OR TO ME THAN THEY MAY HAVE TO

                    SOMEBODY ELSE.  SO, IN REGARDS TO THIS BILL, WHAT DOES VILIFY, HUMILIATE

                    MEAN?

                                 MS. FAHY:  AGAIN, WE HAVE IT IN AS -- IT'S -- IT'S AN

                    EXPLANATION OF WHAT HATEFUL CONDUCT WOULD BE.  SO I THINK IT WOULD

                    MEAN VILIFY OR HUMILIATE AS A PART OF A HATEFUL CONDUCT AGAINST ANY OF

                    THE GROUPS OR CLASSES OF PERSONS THAT ARE LISTED.  SO I THINK, AGAIN, IT IS

                    -- IT IS INTENDED WITH THAT TYPE OF CONDUCT, AND AS YOU SEE IN THAT SAME

                    PHRASE IT SAYS "OR INCITE VIOLENCE."  SO IT'S ALL ALONG THAT SAME

                    TRAJECTORY, IF YOU WILL, OF HATEFUL CONDUCT WHICH -- WHICH IS DONE BY

                    VILIFYING, HUMILIATING OR INCITING VIOLENCE.  SO IT'S -- IT'S SOMEWHAT

                    MODIFYING VIOLENCE TERM THERE AS WELL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  GOT IT.  ALL RIGHT.

                                 MS. FAHY:  AGAINST ANY OF THOSE GROUPS LISTED.

                                 MR. DURSO:  AND -- AND -- AND LISTEN, I -- I WANT TO

                                         186



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SAY THIS UP FRONT.  I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU WHEN IT COMES TO SOCIAL

                    MEDIA NETWORKS, ANYBODY INCITING VIOLENCE OR AGAINST A GROUP OR CLASS

                    OF PERSONS OR ANYBODY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE OR GENDER, SEXUAL

                    ORIENTATION, I 100 PERCENT AGREE.  SO I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU ON

                    THAT PORTION.  MY -- MY CONCERN IS WITH THOSE TWO WORDS BECAUSE

                    AGAIN, WHAT MIGHT HUMILIATE ME OR MIGHT HUMILIATE SOMEBODY ELSE

                    MAY BE DIFFERENT TO EACH PERSON.  SO IF I HAVE MY WEBSITE UP OR -- OR

                    MY SOCIAL MEDIA OR MY FACEBOOK OR MY INSTAGRAM AND I'M WEARING A

                    SHIRT THAT SAYS "VOTE REPUBLICAN", RIGHT, AND -- AND SOMEBODY -- I'M --

                    I'M JUST THROWING IT OUT THERE, SOME MIGHT -- MIGHT THINK THAT THAT'S

                    HUMILIATING OR VILIFYING ME.  SOMEBODY ELSE MAY BE VILIFYING PEOPLE

                    IN GENERAL AND THEY COULD HIT A REPORT BUTTON, WHICH WE'LL GET INTO IN A

                    MOMENT.  WOULD THAT CONSTITUTE SOMEONE HITTING A REPORT BUTTON AND

                    THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE ANSWER TO THAT?

                                 MS. FAHY:  AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD FALL

                    UNDER THE -- THE PRIMARY DEFINITION WHICH IS HATEFUL CONDUCT AND, YOU

                    KNOW, WE HAVE AN EXPLICIT PROVISION IN HERE THAT THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO

                    HINDER OR VIOLATE ANY FREE SPEECH RIGHTS THAT -- THAT ONE HAS.  AND

                    AGAIN, KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS AGAINST A GROUP OR CLASS OF PERSONS.  SO

                    I -- I THINK SOME OF THESE THINGS WILL GET DEFINED IN THE REGS, BUT KEEP

                    IN MIND IT REALLY IS HATEFUL TOWARD THAT VIOLENT CONDUCT.  THAT'S WHAT

                    WE'RE AFTER.  WITH 4.7 BILLION POSTS A DAY, A DAY, YOU KNOW, WE NEED

                    HELP, AND CERTAINLY IT IS THE MOST EGREGIOUS ONES THAT WE UNFORTUNATELY

                    TOO OFTEN FIND OUT ABOUT AFTER THE FACT.  SO THE INTENT HERE IS TO BE

                    PROACTIVE, NOT -- NOT AS REACTIVE AS -- AS HAS BEEN THE CASE IN TOO MANY

                                         187



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HORRIFIC INCIDENCES OF -- OF VIOLENCE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  AND I WOULD -- I WOULD TOTALLY AGREE

                    WITH YOU AND I UNDERSTAND.  MY -- MY CONCERN WITH THAT IS IT'S VERY

                    BROAD LANGUAGE AND THAT -- AND AGAIN, TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU WHEN IT

                    COMES TO GREAT GROUPS, HATE SPEECH, INCITING ANY TYPE OF VIOLENCE.  JUST

                    WITH THE WORDS HUMILIATE AND VILIFY, AGAIN, EVERYBODY COULD TAKE

                    THOSE, YOU KNOW, IT -- HOW THEY DEFINE THEM, HOW THEY FEEL.  WHAT,

                    AGAIN, MIGHT HUMILIATE YOU MAY NOT HUMILIATE ME, SO IF SOMEONE

                    REPORTS IT AND LET'S JUST SAY FACEBOOK WAS TO TAKE IT DOWN BECAUSE YOU

                    REPORTED SAYING THAT YOU'RE HUMILIATED BY MY ACTIONS OR SOMETHING THAT

                    I'M DOING UPSETS YOU, THAT IS HINDERING MY FREE SPEECH EVEN THOUGH IT

                    IS NOTHING THAT IS ATTACKING A GROUP, A RACE, ANYBODY UPON THEIR SEXUAL

                    ORIENTATION OR GENDER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

                                 BUT LET ME MOVE ON TO A COUPLE OF MORE QUESTIONS.

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  AS FAR AS THE SOCIAL MEDIA OUTLETS THAT

                    ARE OUT THERE NOW, MOST OF THEM DO HAVE A REPORT BUTTON OR -- OR SOME

                    WAY TO REPORT THESE TYPES OF BEHAVIORS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. FAHY:  MOST HAVE GOTTEN BETTER.  SOME OF THE

                    MORE TRADITIONAL ONES THAT WE'VE KNOWN OF, CERTAINLY, TO USE TWITTER AS

                    AN EXAMPLE, THEY HAVE GOTTEN BETTER AT LEAST UNTIL MAYBE ELON MUSK

                    BUYS IT.  BUT -- BUT SO FAR THEY'VE -- THEY'VE I HAVE NOTICED A CHANGE IN

                    THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.  BUT AS CAME TO LIGHT AFTER ONE OF THE MOST

                    RECENT HORRIFIC MASSACRES, THERE IS A WHOLE HOST OF SOCIAL MEDIA

                    PLATFORMS, IT SEEMS AS IF THERE'S A NEW ONE EVERY DAY AND IT'S VERY HARD

                                         188



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO KEEP UP WITH THOSE.  SO -- SO YES, I THINK WE'VE SEEN SOME EFFORTS,

                    AND CERTAINLY FACEBOOK, AS YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN TAKEN TO COURT A

                    NUMBER OF TIMES ON THIS.  SO -- SO WE'RE SEEING PROGRESS THERE.  BUT THIS

                    MAKES SURE IT IS A CLEAR AND CONCISE POLICY THAT IS NOTED AND A

                    RECORDING MECHANISM.  SO IT'S REALLY -- IT -- IT'S LAYING OUT SOMETHING A

                    -- A LITTLE MORE, AGAIN, IN A -- IN A PROACTIVE MANNER AND CHARGING THE

                    AG WITH THIS.  THE GOVERNOR, AS YOU KNOW, HAS JUST ASSIGNED A TASK

                    FORCE ON THIS.  BUT IT'S -- IT'S TOO MONUMENTAL.  WE NEED THE PRIVATE

                    SECTOR WORKING WITH US ON THIS.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  UNDERSTOOD.  SO -- SO GOING

                    BACK TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID, THE MECHANISM AND THE REPORT BUTTON.  SO IF

                    THERE'S A REPORT BUTTON ON EVERY SOCIAL MEDIA WEBSITE AND THERE'S

                    HATEFUL CONDUCT OR SOMETHING THAT MAY INCITE VIOLENCE OR BE

                    HUMILIATING, THEY WILL REPORT IT.  NOW, NEW YORK STATE, RIGHT, WE'RE

                    HERE.  IF A SOCIAL MEDIA SITE IS RAN OUT OF ANOTHER STATE, SO YOU SAY

                    CALIFORNIA OR OKLAHOMA OR FLORIDA, HOW ARE WE GOING TO REGULATE WHAT

                    THEY DO WITH THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANY THAT'S IN ANOTHER STATE?

                                 MS. FAHY:  IF THEY'RE CONDUCTING BUSINESS HERE, IF

                    THEY HAVE A FOOTPRINT HERE, MY SENSE IS THEY WILL FALL UNDER THIS.  SOME

                    OF THAT WILL HAVE TO BE DETERMINED.  BUT WE RAN INTO THIS WITH THE NET

                    NEUTRALITY BILL A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO WHEN THE FTC WAS THREATENING TO

                    ELIMINATE NET NEUTRALITY AND -- AND THERE ARE WAYS TO MAKE SURE THAT IF

                    THEY'RE DOING BUSINESS HERE THAT THEY HAVE TO COMPLY BY OUR RULES.  SO,

                    AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL HAVE TO BE WORKED OUT.  BUT CERTAINLY,

                    MOST OF THE MAJOR COMPANIES HAVE A -- IF NOT A PHYSICAL FOOTPRINT, THEY

                                         189



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CERTAINLY ARE BEING USED BY RESIDENTS HERE.  SO WE -- WE THINK IT WOULD

                    BE APPLICABLE AND SOME OF THIS WILL HAVE TO BE HASHED OUT, SOME OF THIS

                    MAY END UP IN THE COURTS AS -- AS OUR GUN LIABILITY BILL DID FROM LAST

                    YEAR.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO, AS -- AS OF RIGHT NOW, RIGHT,

                    SO -- I'M -- I'M NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND ACT LIKE I KNOW ABOUT ALL OF

                    THESE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES, I'M NOT --

                                 MS. FAHY:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  -- AS TECH SAVVY AS I PROBABLY SHOULD

                    BE.  BUT A COMPANY THAT IS BASED OUT OF CALIFORNIA RIGHT NOW, WE PUT

                    THESE REGULATIONS IN PLACE, RIGHT, SAYING THEY HAVE TO HAVE A REPORT

                    BUTTON, THEY HAVE TO HAVE A -- A MECHANISM IN PLACE TO BE ABLE TO

                    REPORT THIS TYPE OF CONDUCT AND THEY DON'T DO IT.  HOW CAN NEW YORK

                    STATE FIND THEM IF THEY'RE NOT HERE?

                                 MS. FAHY:  YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THAT WILL BE UP TO THE

                    ATTORNEY GENERAL.  SHE'S -- SHE IS GRANTED THE ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY

                    HERE AND -- AND IF NEED BE TO ISSUE -- THE ABILITY TO ISSUE SUBPOENAS.

                    WHAT SHE CAN DO ACROSS STATE LINES, YOU USED CALIFORNIA AS AN EXAMPLE,

                    SHE'S -- SHE'S WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH -- WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

                    THERE, AND CERTAINLY MOST OF THESE PLATFORMS ARE AVAILABLE AROUND THE

                    WORLD.  SO, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE

                    WORKED OUT.  I WOULD HOPE IN CONJUNCTION WITH OTHER STATES, BUT THAT --

                    THAT -- AGAIN, THEY MAY BE CHALLENGED AND IF SO, THE COURTS WILL -- WILL

                    SETTLE IT.  BUT WE THINK THAT IF THEY -- IF THEY HAVE A PRESENCE, IF IT'S

                    BEING USED HERE AND THEY HAVE PAYING CUSTOMERS OR PAYING ADVERTISERS

                                         190



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ON THOSE PLATFORMS, THEY HAVE A -- A BASE HERE IN THIS STATE.  SO I'D LIKE

                    TO THINK, YOU KNOW, OUR -- OUR UNDERSTANDING IS IT WILL HAVE A REACH.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  AND THEN THAT WILL JUST BRING

                    ME INTO ONE OF MY FINAL QUESTIONS BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY BROUGHT IT UP.

                    SO IF THERE'S A COMPANY THAT'S BASED OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES.  DOES

                    THE ATTORNEY GENERAL REALLY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO GO THAT FAR WITH IT OR

                    SHOULD THIS BE MORE OF A FEDERAL ISSUE?  MAYBE WE SHOULD BE LOBBYING

                    CONGRESS AT THIS POINT TO MAYBE TAKE OVER A BILL SOMEWHAT LIKE THIS.  I

                    MEAN, IT -- IT -- DO WE HAVE THAT FAR-REACHING EFFECT HERE IN NEW YORK

                    STATE?

                                 MS. FAHY:  TO BE PERFECTLY, YOU KNOW, REALISTIC

                    HERE, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S HARDER, RIGHT?  AND AGAIN, JUST TRYING TO KEEP UP

                    WITH FACEBOOK, IF YOU JUST THINK OF FACEBOOK, AGAIN, WITH BILLIONS,

                    BILLIONS OF POSTS EVERY DAY, THIS IS A MONUMENTAL TASK.  SO I THINK THIS

                    IS JUST THE START, AND CLEARLY WE'LL BE -- WE WILL BE RELYING ON THE

                    COOPERATION OF -- OF THE SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORKS TO SET UP THAT POLICY AND

                    TO -- TO BEGIN TO BETTER MONITOR.  AND THEN WE DON'T HAVE A -- A BASHFUL

                    ATTORNEY GENERAL AND WE RECOGNIZE THE -- THE CORRELATION.  ESTIMATES

                    ARE THAT 80 PERCENT OF MASS SHOOTERS HAVE SHOWN SIGNS OF CRISIS, AND

                    ABOUT ONE-HALF OF THAT 80 PERCENT HAVE ESTIMATED TO HAVE REVEALED THEIR

                    PLANS AHEAD OF TIME BY A SOCIAL MEDIA POST.  SO WE KNOW WE HAVE AN

                    ISSUE.  WE KNOW WE NEED MORE TOOLS TO ADDRESS IT.  OVERSEAS WILL

                    CLEARLY BE -- HARDER PLATFORMS THAT ARE OPERATED OVERSEAS WILL -- WILL

                    CLEARLY BE A MORE CHALLENGING TASK.  BUT CERTAINLY -- CERTAINLY WE KNOW

                    WE HAVE A PROBLEM AND IT'S NOT JUST -- IT -- IT'S NOT JUST CONFINED TO NEW

                                         191



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    YORK.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  THANK YOU, MS. FAHY.  I

                    APPRECIATE ALL YOUR TIME.

                                 MS. FAHY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK -- THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.  HAPPY TO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY YIELDS, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  AND CERTAINLY I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR -- YOUR EFFORT WITH REGARD TO, YOU KNOW, THIS ISSUE AND

                    IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK -- IT'S TRICKY, RIGHT?  IT'S -- WE'RE TRYING TO

                    ADDRESS SOMETHING THAT HAS, YOU KNOW, SOME FEDERAL LAW, OBVIOUSLY,

                    POTENTIALLY TRIGGERING CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS, AND DIFFERENT STATES ARE

                    DIFFERENT -- DOING DIFFERENT THINGS AND -- AND THAT'S I THINK ONE OF THE,

                    YOU KNOW, CONCERNS.  BUT I WAS JUST READING ONE OF THE -- THE MEMOS

                    FROM THE NYCLU REGARDING THIS, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE ALL KNOW

                    THAT LIKE WE HAVE A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO SPEAK AND ALL THAT, BUT

                    THERE'S A LEVEL AT WHICH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAUSE DANGER OR -- OR

                    SOMETHING LIKE THAT.  SO I GUESS REALLY THE -- THE QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW,

                    WITH THIS -- THIS LANGUAGE THAT'S IN THE BILL, HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT WE

                    DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE THAT, YOU KNOW, A

                                         192



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SOCIAL MEDIA ENTITY NOW REGULATES PAST WHAT WE'RE TRYING -- YOU KNOW,

                    WE'RE TRYING TO GET AT THAT REALLY DANGEROUS, HATEFUL CONDUCT THAT CAN

                    INCITE VIOLENCE, ALL OF THAT.  BUT HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT THEY DON'T

                    USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, SPEECH MAY BE

                    POLITICAL IN NATURE ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER AND -- AND CUT DOWN ON THAT

                    TYPE OF SPEECH?

                                 MS. FAHY:  AGAIN, WE AGREE THIS IS TRICKY.  THIS IS

                    AN AREA THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE -- WE ARE VENTURING INTO TERRITORY THAT --

                    THAT HAS BEEN TRIED BEFORE, AND I THINK THERE'S BEEN SOME HESITANCY

                    BECAUSE ALL OF US VALUE THE -- THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH.  WE DO, AGAIN,

                    ADD IN HERE THAT NOTHING IS INTENDED TO HINDER THAT.  AT THE SAME TIME,

                    WE KNOW -- AND -- AND NOTHING IS INTENDED TO INCREASE THE LIABILITY OF

                    THESE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS.  BUT WE KNOW WE HAVE AN ISSUE.  WE

                    KNOW VIOLENT OFFENDERS ARE TOO OFTEN POSTING, AND AGAIN, WE ARE TRYING

                    TO KEEP THIS FOCUSED ON HATEFUL CONDUCT LEADING TO OR IS TRYING TO INCITE

                    -- WE HAVE THE WORD INCITE VIOLENCE THERE -- AND IT IS AGAINST A GROUP OR

                    CLASS OF PERSONS BASED ON THE -- THE DEFINITION THAT WAS READ EARLIER, SO

                    BASED ON A WHOLE HOST OF -- OF CATEGORIES YOU -- YOU'RE QUITE FAMILIAR

                    WITH.  AND SO THERE IS AN EFFORT TO DRAW THAT FINE LINE, YET WE'VE GOT TO

                    HAVE THESE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES WORKING WITH US.  YOU KNOW, THE

                    -- THE ATTORNEY GENERAL COULD HIRE A THOUSAND INVESTIGATORS TOMORROW,

                    AND WITHOUT THE COOPERATION OF THESE PLATFORMS AND WITHOUT BETTER

                    TRANSPARENCY WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET AT THIS -- THESE VIOLENT

                    INTENTIONS OR THESE VIOLENT INCIDENCES THAT ARE BEING POSTED.

                                 MR. RA:  AND THANK YOU.  AND -- AND I KNOW THAT,

                                         193



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD SOCIAL MEDIA ENTITIES TESTIFY BEFORE

                    CONGRESS AND, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO GET AT THE HEART OF THIS ISSUE AND I

                    AND I -- AND I REALLY THINK THAT ULTIMATELY THAT'S MAYBE WHERE SOME

                    SOLUTION LIES IF, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN GET THEMSELVES TOGETHER.  WE KNOW

                    GETTING ANYTHING IN AGREEMENT IN CONGRESS IS -- IS TOUGH THESE DAYS.

                    BUT, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE YOU END UP WITH KIND OF LIKE A SHISH KABOB

                    OF ALL THESE DIFFERENT STATE LAWS.  THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT.  YOU KNOW, YOU

                    HAVE TEXAS WHO DID SOMETHING THAT IS LIKE VERY MUCH I THINK CAN LEAD

                    TO GREAT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF JUST KIND OF ANYTHING GOES.  BUT

                    THEN YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING LIKE THIS THAT -- THAT I THINK COULD

                    ALSO LEAD TO UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.  BUT I WANT TO GET TO MAYBE THE

                    SPECIFICS THERE.  SO, YOU KNOW, THEY MAKE A POLICY ACCESSIBLE TO THE

                    USER, RIGHT, AND -- AND I WOULD THINK ANY MAJOR ENTITY IS JUST GOING TO

                    HAVE TO DO THIS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE REACHING NEW YORK JUST LIKE

                    THEY'RE REACHING REALLY WORLDWIDE, MOST OF THESE PLATFORMS.  SO TO -- I

                    MEAN, HOW DETAILED DOES THIS HAVE TO BE?  DOES IT HAVE TO SAY

                    SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, ONCE REPORTED, WHERE YOU WILL VERIFY THIS

                    WITHIN 24 HOURS, 48 HOURS AND HAVE IT REMOVED?  DOES IT HAVE TO GO TO

                    THE EXTENT OF WE WILL FOLLOW-UP WITH THE PERSON WHO HAS REPORTED THIS?

                    CAN -- CAN YOU GIVE ME LIKE AN IDEA OF HOW DETAILED A POLICY WE WOULD

                    EXPECT UNDER THIS?

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.  AGAIN, HERE A COUPLE -- IN A

                    COUPLE OF PLACES WE DO NOTE THAT THEY -- THEY ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE THIS

                    POLICY BUT IT IS -- IT IS TO BE CLEAR AND CONCISE.  AND I THINK IT -- THE

                    CONCISENESS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE WANT IT -- WE DON'T, YOU KNOW,

                                         194



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WANT TEN PARAGRAPHS OF POLICY THAT EVERYBODY JUST CHECKS OFF AND --

                    AND DOESN'T READ AGAIN AS THEY'RE ACCESSING -- AS THEY'RE PURCHASE -- AS

                    THEY'RE PURCHASING THINGS ONLINE.  SO THIS IS INTENDED TO BE CLEAR AND

                    CONCISE AND READILY AVAILABLE, AS WELL AS ACCESSIBLE ON THE WEBSITE AS

                    WELL AS THE ABILITY TO REPORT.  WE ALSO INCLUDE A PROVISION THAT SAYS THAT

                    THE -- THE SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORKS THEMSELVES NEED TO SHOW HOW THEY

                    PLAN TO RESPOND.  BUT WE HAVE LEFT THIS PURPOSELY OPEN, IF YOU WILL,

                    BECAUSE WE ARE LEAVING IT UP TO THEM.  AND AS IS OFTEN THE CASE, THE

                    LARGER PROVIDERS, AS WERE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, TWITTER AND FACEBOOK

                    HAVE SPENT THE LAST FEW YEARS TRYING TO NAVIGATE THIS, TRYING TO BETTER

                    MONITOR.  AND WE SAW WITH THE MASSACRE IN BUFFALO -- I -- I DON'T KNOW

                    IF IT WAS 4CHAN, I FORGET WHAT PLATFORM THAT THAT MASSACRE WAS BEING

                    FILMED ON -- IT WAS TAKEN DOWN.  ONE TOOK IT DOWN IN TEN MINUTES, THE

                    OTHERS SPENT HOURS BEFORE THEY TOOK DOWN THOSE VIDEOS AND I'M SURE

                    SOME ARE STILL OUT IN THE ETHERLAND.  SO WE KNOW WE'VE HAD MIXED --

                    MIXED SUCCESS, AND THAT'S WHY WE -- WE CONTEND WE NEED TO BE MORE

                    ASSERTIVE HERE AND WE'VE GOT TO GET THEM WORKING WITH US AND WORKING

                    WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND THEN IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THE

                    -- THE CIVIL PENALTY SECTION, SO IS THAT CIVIL PENALTY TRIGGERED -- THE

                    VIOLATION WOULD BE NOT HAVING A POLICY.  COULD AN ENTITY HAVE THAT, YOU

                    KNOW, PENALTY TRIGGERED BY THEIR LACK OF ACTION TO SOMETHING REPORTED

                    TO THEM OR WOULD IT JUST BE THAT THEY HAVE TO THE PROPER MECHANISMS IN

                    PLACE FOR THESE THINGS TO BE REPORTED?

                                 MS. FAHY:  IT -- IT ALSO INCLUDES A LACK OF ACTION.  A

                                         195



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    FAILURE TO COMPLY COULD TRIGGER THAT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO -- SO THEORETICALLY, AND -- AND

                    THIS I GUESS MIGHT BE OR IS ONE OF MY CONCERNS, IS THAT, YOU KNOW,

                    SOMEBODY COULD -- WELL I GUESS IT WOULD -- THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

                    WOULD BE THE ONE ENFORCING THIS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. FAHY:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MR. RA:  THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WOULD BE THE ONE

                    ENFORCING IT?

                                 MS. FAHY:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  SO, YOU KNOW, I -- I -- SO, IF THE ATTORNEY

                    GENERAL SAY -- SAY SOMETHING GETS REPORTED, THE SOCIAL MEDIA ENTITY

                    GOES THROUGH THEIR PROCESS, THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T THINK THIS IS,

                    YOU KNOW, VIOLATIVE OF OUR -- OF OUR POLICIES.  WE'RE -- WE'RE OKAY WITH

                    THIS.  IT MAYBE PUSHES -- PUSHES THE LINE BUT IT DOESN'T QUITE CROSS IT,

                    AND THEY ALLOW IT TO STAY, POTENTIALLY THE -- THE ATTORNEY GENERAL COULD

                    SAY, NO, I THINK THIS DOES GO PAST THAT AND BRING AN ACTION FOR VIOLATING

                    THIS; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. FAHY:  I THINK, AGAIN, IN AN EFFORT TO BE

                    PROACTIVE IF THAT POLICY IS PUBLISHED AT THE FRONT END, THAT CLEAR AND

                    CONCISE POLICY AND WHERE IT'S AGREED TO, I THINK IT -- IT WOULD

                    PRESUMABLY PREVENT SOME OF THAT, YOU KNOW, SECOND GUESSING --

                    SECOND GUESSING AFTERWARDS.  YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S -- THERE'S NO PENALTY

                    INVOLVED HERE FOR NOT REPORTING AT THIS POINT.  IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT

                    TELLING THEM WHAT -- WHAT THE POLICY SHOULD BE NOR IF -- IF IT'S REPORTED.

                    THIS IS -- IN SO MANY WAYS THESE ARE JUST THE FIRST STEPS OF REALLY TRYING

                                         196



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO TACKLE -- TACKLE A -- A MONSTER ITEM WITH 4.75 BILLION POSTS EVERY

                    DAY.  SO THESE ARE -- YOU KNOW, QUITE FRANKLY, I THINK THEY'RE -- THEY'RE

                    SMALL STEPS BUT WE ARE WADING INTO, AS DISCUSSED, TRICKY TERRITORY WITH

                    TRYING TO BE RESPECTFUL OF FREE SPEECH AND TRYING TO -- AND TRYING TO GET

                    THE ASSISTANCE OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR BECAUSE THERE IS -- THERE -- WE ARE

                    HINDERED.  WE KNOW FROM SO MANY OTHER VIOLENT INCIDENCES THAT WERE

                    ONLINE BEFOREHAND, BUFFALO WAS FAR FROM THE FIRST, WE KNOW WE NEED

                    MORE COOPERATION, WE NEED BETTER POLICIES.  IT'S -- IT'S LIKE THE NEW

                    YORK CITY ISSUE OF SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING.  IT'S -- WE'RE TRYING

                    TO ENCAPSULATE THAT BUT WITH SOCIAL MEDIA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH --

                                 MS. FAHY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. RA:  -- I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS WITH REGARD TO --

                    TO THIS ISSUE.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  JUST QUICKLY, YOU KNOW, WE -- WE DO

                    CERTAINLY NEED TO FIND WAYS TO LOOK AT THIS ISSUE.  A LOT OF, YOU KNOW,

                    THE FEDERAL LAWS DATE BACK TO THE EARLIER DAYS OF THE INTERNET.  I DON'T

                    KNOW WHEN, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST TIME PEOPLE WERE USING SOME OF THOSE

                    OLD SEARCH ENGINES OR DOING WHATEVER THEY WERE DOING ONLINE, GOING TO

                    THESE BASIC WEBSITES WE EVER CONTEMPLATED THE SOCIAL MEDIA WORLD WE

                    LIVE IN NOW.  SO CERTAINLY WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT DAY AND -- AND OUR LAWS

                    SHOULD -- SHOULD REFLECT THAT.  AND -- AND I THINK APPROPRIATELY, YOU

                    KNOW, A FEDERAL POLICY THAT REQUIRES, YOU KNOW, REALLY NEUTRAL POLICIES

                                         197



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BY -- BY SOCIAL MEDIA OPERATORS I THINK WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE.  BUT

                    -- BUT THE WHOLE POINT OF THAT FEDERAL LAW WAY BACK THEN WAS TO KIND

                    OF JUST ALLOW THE INTERNET TO KIND OF FLOURISH AND GIVE KIND OF SAFE

                    HARBOR SO THAT OPERATORS WEREN'T HELD LIABLE FOR -- FOR THINGS PEOPLE

                    POSTED.  AND I THINK SOME WAY HERE WHERE WE NEED TO GET IS THAT IF THE

                    ENTITY IS MAKING A GOOD FAITH EFFORT THAT THERE'S NOT THAT POTENTIAL FOR

                    THEM TO BE SECOND-GUESSED.  THE PROBLEM IS AT THE END OF THE DAY SOME

                    HUMAN BEING, YOU KNOW, THEY -- THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THEIR ALGORITHMS

                    AND THINGS TRY TO CATCH THINGS WHICH THEY ALL HAVE.  AND AS ANY OF US

                    SHOULD REALIZE WHEN YOU GO ON ANY OF THESE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS

                    THERE'S -- THERE'S AN ALGORITHM TRYING TO MAKE SURE YOU SEE WHAT THEY

                    WANT -- WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO SEE, AND -- AND UNFORTUNATELY IN A LOT OF

                    WAYS IT ENDS UP CREATING SOCIAL MEDIA ECHO CHAMBERS BECAUSE THEY'RE

                    SENDING CONTENT THAT THEY THINK YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE AND NOT NECESSARILY

                    THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LIKE.  BUT MY CONCERN IS THAT AT SOME

                    POINT THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME PERSON MAKING A -- REALLY A SUBJECTIVE

                    DETERMINATION ABOUT SOMETHING, AND -- AND THAT'S WHERE WE GET INTO A

                    REALLY TRICKY AREA.

                                 SO I -- I KNOW THIS IS NOT AN EASY AREA TO LEGISLATE, SO I

                    CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THIS BILL BEFORE US AND I'M SURE A LOT

                    OF WORK WENT INTO GETTING THIS LANGUAGE BEFORE US.  AND -- AND I HOPE

                    THAT IT'S A CONTINUED CONVERSATION BECAUSE SOCIAL MEDIAL OUTLETS CAN BE

                    WONDERFUL, BUT THEY CAN BE ABSOLUTELY AWFUL AT TIMES, TOO, IN TERMS OF

                    JUST PEOPLE SAYING THINGS THAT THEY WOULD NEVER SAY TO SOMEBODY'S FACE

                    AND CERTAINLY INCITING, YOU KNOW, HATE AND VIOLENCE AS WELL.  SO, I -- I

                                         198



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THANK THE SPONSOR FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. JENSEN.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                    WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I JUST WANT TO

                    GO IN A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN MY -- MY TWO COLLEAGUES

                    PREVIOUSLY.  END OF LAST WEEK I WAS IN A -- A COMMUNITY MEETING TRYING

                    TO ADDRESS VIOLENCE IN THE GREATER ROCHESTER AREA.  AND REPRESENTATIVES

                    FROM FAITH-BASED, COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS WHO ACT AS VIOLENCE

                    INTERCEPTORS IN THE COMMUNITY MENTIONED THAT THEY'RE SEEING OVER THE

                    PAST FEW YEARS MORE AND MORE INDIVIDUALS IN THE COMMUNITY USING

                    SOCIAL MEDIA, FACEBOOK, AS A WAY TO THREATEN VIOLENCE AGAINST OTHER

                    PEOPLE.  AND THEY DON'T FALL INTO THE PROTECTED CLASSES THAT YOU

                    MENTIONED IN THE BILL, BUT YET THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO INCITE VIOLENCE AND

                    INCITE HATE BECAUSE THEY'RE IN A RIVAL GANG, A RIVAL ORGANIZATION.  AND

                    WE'VE SEEN THAT WITH, YOU KNOW, WAVING FIREARMS, THREATENING PEOPLE

                    DIRECTLY, THREATENING WITNESSES.  THERE WAS A DONNYBROOK IN A WALMART

                    PARKING LOT WHERE SOMEBODY SUFFERED GUNSHOT WOUNDS.  AND I GUESS

                    MY QUESTION IS, WOULD THIS COVER THOSE TYPES OF HATEFUL CONDUCT?

                                         199



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BECAUSE I THINK IF YOU'RE THREATENING TO KILL A WITNESS TO A CRIME, THAT'S

                    PRETTY HATEFUL.  WOULD THAT BE COVERED EVEN -- EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT

                    A PROTECTED CLASS?

                                 MS. FAHY:  MY READING OF THIS -- YEAH, THAT'S AN

                    EXCELLENT QUESTION.  CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS TARGETED AT GROUPS OR

                    CLASSES OF PERSONS AS WERE READ BEFORE AND I WON'T REREAD THEM.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  YEP.

                                 MS. FAHY:  IF IT'S TO PURPOSELY TARGET A WITNESS, TO

                    TAKE OUT A WITNESS, IF YOU WILL, OF ANOTHER CRIME, THAT IS -- THAT IS -- MY

                    READING WOULD SAY IT'S NOT COVERED HERE.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  IT'S NOT.

                                 MS. FAHY:  BUT MAYBE THAT'S ANOTHER BILL.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  YEAH.

                                 MS. FAHY:  BUT CERTAINLY I -- I SEE YOUR POINT.

                    AGAIN, I'M -- I'M TRYING TO BE AS FRANK AS I CAN BE.  THIS IS -- THESE ARE

                    SMALL STEPS TO GET AT WHAT IS A MONUMENTAL BUT DIFFICULT PROBLEM.  AND

                    BUT WE -- YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS WAS INITIATED LAST YEAR AFTER JANUARY

                    6TH.  CERTAINLY WE'VE HAD INCIDENT AFTER INCIDENT.  WE KNOW WE HAVE TO

                    BEGIN SOMEWHERE.  BUT YOU RAISE AN EXCELLENT POINT.  SO -- BUT -- BUT IF

                    THE POLICY WERE THERE, NOTHING WOULD PRECLUDE THE SOCIAL MEDIA

                    PLATFORM OR NETWORK FROM ADDING THAT IN.  YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S BACK

                    TO THE NEW YORK CITY VERSION OF SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING, BUT

                    WE'RE TRYING TO DO IT ONLINE.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  RIGHT.  AND I -- AND I THINK, YOU

                    KNOW, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WITH THAT IS I KNOW TWITTER HAS A MUCH

                                         200



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    MORE MAYBE STRINGENT INCITING VIOLENCE AND ACTUAL THREAT.  AND SO I

                    GUESS, YOU KNOW, MR. RA TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT, THAT BECAUSE OF

                    THE VAGUENESS OF THIS LEGISLATION THAT WE COULD HAVE A CORNUCOPIA OF

                    DIFFERENT SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS HAVING DIFFERENT RULES FOR CONSTITUTING

                    WHAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE A POLICY FOR.  AND WHILE THEY MAY HAVE TO

                    ADDRESS TAKING IT DOWN OR REMOVING IT FROM THEIR PLATFORM, IS THERE

                    ANYTHING THAT WOULD MAKE THEM HAVE TO REPORT THOSE TYPES OF THREATS TO

                    LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE RELEVANT JURISDICTION RATHER THAN JUST REMOVING

                    THE CONTENT FROM THEIR PLATFORM?

                                 MS. FAHY:  AS -- AS NOTED, WE'RE -- WE'RE NOT EVEN

                    TELLING THEM -- BECAUSE WE ARE JUST STARTING HERE, WE'RE NOT EVEN TELLING

                    THEM WHAT TO DO.  WE'RE JUST SAYING THAT THEY -- THEY NEED TO STATE HOW

                    THEY WOULD RESPOND, WE'RE NOT SAYING OR ADDRESS.  BUT WE'RE NOT TELLING

                    THEM HOW THEY WOULD DO THAT.  AND AGAIN, I THINK THESE ARE THE TYPES

                    OF THINGS, ONE, THAT ARE WORKED OUT IN REGS, BUT ALSO WORKED OUT BY THE

                    -- THE BIGGER NETWORKS WHO HAVE ALREADY SPENT THE LAST FEW YEARS TRYING

                    TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE ON THIS BECAUSE OF PREVIOUS INCIDENCES.  AND I

                    THINK THAT WILL SET THE TONE AND LAY OUT -- LAY OUT SOME PATHS FORWARD

                    ON THIS.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.

                                 MS. FAHY:  IS MY SENSE.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I

                    APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                         201



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. OTIS.

                                 MR. OTIS:  THANK YOU.  I'M GOING TO SPEAK ON THE

                    BILL AND --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. OTIS:  -- AND I'M GOING TO CONGRATULATE THE

                    SPONSOR OF THE BILL FOR HAVING THE FORESIGHT TO BRING A CONCEPT THAT IS A

                    VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS.  BUT A LOT OF THE

                    DISCUSSION HAS BEEN ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE ACTUALLY NOT IN THE BILL.  THIS

                    IS A VERY SIMPLE BILL.  THIS IS A BILL THAT BASICALLY RAISES THE STANDARD FOR

                    SOCIAL MEDIA SITES TO HAVE A -- AND I'LL READ THE LANGUAGE -- EASILY --

                    EASILY ACCESSIBLE MECHANISM TO REPORT HATEFUL MATERIAL.  THAT'S ALL THE

                    BILL REALLY DOES.  IT -- IT WOULD HAVE TO REPORT ON THEY HANDLE THE

                    COMPLAINTS.  BUT WHAT THE BILL DOES NOT DO IS THE BILL IS NOT ABOUT THE

                    FIRST AMENDMENT, WE DON'T TELL THE SOCIAL MEDIA SITES WHAT THEY DO,

                    WHAT -- WHAT JUDGMENTS THEY MAKE.  IT IS NOT ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT

                    TELLING SOCIAL MEDIA SITES WHAT TO KEEP UP OR WHAT TO TAKE DOWN.  AND

                    IT'S NOT VERY COMPLICATED.  WHAT IT DOES DO IS IT SETS UP -- IT DOESN'T --

                    DOESN'T TELL THEM WHAT THEIR ROLE SHOULD BE.  WHAT THE BILL DOES IS

                    BASICALLY SAY WE WANT SPEED IN GETTING HATEFUL MATERIAL DOWN.  THE

                    SITE'S GOING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT MATERIAL ON THEIR OWN POLICIES THEY'RE

                    GOING TO TAKE DOWN OR THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP UP.  BUT AS THE SPONSOR

                    ALLUDED TO, IN THE EVIL THAT OCCURRED IN BUFFALO, IT WAS POSTED LIVE BY

                    THE KILLER AND THEN REPOSTED ON OTHER SITES, SOMETIMES FOR HOURS AND

                    HOURS, AND THE SPONSOR SPECULATED THAT MAYBE IT'S STILL UP IN SOME

                    PLACES.  AND SO WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS WE WANT TO MAKE IT AS EASY AS

                                         202



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE THAT SEE THIS TO REPORT IT TO THE SITE, AND AT A CERTAIN

                    POINT THESE SITES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT THEIR OWN MORALITY AND

                    THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE AND -- AND DECIDE WHAT THEIR POLICIES ARE GOING TO

                    BE.  AND MAYBE SOME OF THESE OTHER MORE COMPLICATED JUDGMENTS AND

                    ISSUES ARE GOING TO BE HANDLED IN OTHER LEGISLATION OR BY THE FEDERAL

                    GOVERNMENT, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS BILL DOES.  THIS BILL SIMPLY SAYS

                    WE HAVE TO HAVE A CLEAR, QUICK WAY THAT THE PUBLIC CAN REPORT STUFF THAT

                    THEY -- THEY THINK VIOLATES THEIR SENSE OF WHAT HATEFUL SPEECH IS.

                                 SO COMPLIMENTS TO THE SPONSOR.  SHE CAME UP WITH --

                    WITH THIS BILL A WHILE AGO, BUT WE'VE SEEN IT IN REAL LIFE IN -- IN BUFFALO

                    AND OTHER PLACES AROUND THE COUNTRY.  THIS IS A BILL EVERYBODY SHOULD

                    SUPPORT.  SOME OF THESE OTHER ISSUES, THEY'RE FOR ARGUMENTS ABOUT OTHER

                    BILLS THAT AREN'T BEFORE US TODAY.

                                 THANK YOU.  I'LL BE VOTING AYE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MR. LAWLER.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY YIELDS, SIR.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU.  SO, FORMER SUPREME

                    COURT JUSTICE ANTONIN SCALIA IN TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT

                    BASICALLY SAID THAT THE PRINCIPAL ROLE OF THE COURT IN THE AREA OF CIVIL

                                         203



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    LIBERTIES IS TO PREVENT THE GOVERNMENT FROM BACKSLIDING IN ITS

                    PROTECTIONS OF LONG-RECOGNIZED PERSONAL LIBERTIES.  OBVIOUSLY, THIS

                    DYNAMIC IS IN MANY RESPECTS A VERY NEW FRONT IN THE -- IN THE FIRST

                    AMENDMENT FIGHT.  AND -- AND I THINK AS WE'VE SEEN, THE FIRST

                    AMENDMENT IS NOT ABSOLUTE.  THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT YOU CANNOT

                    SAY OR DO THAT -- AND ESPECIALLY IN THREATENING VIOLENCE OR -- OR HARM TO

                    OTHERS.  AND I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT I THINK OBVIOUSLY IT'S

                    INCUMBENT UPON NOT JUST SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES, BUT ACROSS THE

                    SPECTRUM TO ENSURE THAT THOSE TYPES OF HATEFUL RHETORIC DO NOT OCCUR.

                    WHERE I DO GET CONCERNED IS THAT WE'RE SEEING IN OTHER STATES KIND OF

                    THE -- THE CONVERSE HERE WHERE THEY'RE SAYING THAT SOCIAL MEDIA

                    COMPANIES CANNOT TRY TO SENSOR PREDOMINANTLY POLITICAL SPEECH AND

                    POLITICAL THOUGHT.  AND CERTAINLY IT APPEARS AT TIMES THAT CERTAIN

                    POLITICAL PARTIES AND/OR ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE MORE REGULATED OR LOOKED

                    AT THAN OTHERS.  THE SUPREME COURT HAS BASICALLY UPHELD -- ALLOWED

                    TEXAS' LAW TO GO FORWARD.  ISN'T THIS SOMETHING THAT MAYBE NEEDS TO BE

                    DEALT WITH FEDERALLY AS OPPOSED TO A STATE-BY-STATE-BY-STATE BASIS GIVEN

                    OBVIOUSLY THE FACT THAT THE INTERNET IS GLOBAL AND NOT JUST OPERATING IN --

                    IN ONE LITTLE AREA OF THE WORLD?

                                 MS. FAHY:  AS WITH SO MUCH LEGISLATION WE DO HERE,

                    AS WITH SO MANY BILLS ESPECIALLY THIS WEEK AND TALKING ABOUT A NUMBER

                    OF GUN MEASURES, WE ABSOLUTELY WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE WORK DONE AT

                    THE FEDERAL LEVEL.  I MENTIONED THE NET NEUTRALITY BILL I HAD A FEW YEARS

                    AGO.  CERTAINLY -- CERTAINLY WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE DONE THERE, BUT

                    WE KNOW NO SECRET OF THE PARALYSIS AS WELL IN WASHINGTON AND -- AND

                                         204



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WE CAN'T WAIT, RIGHT?  THIS WAS OUR BACKYARD.  AND -- AND BUFFALO WAS

                    FAR FROM THE FIRST WHERE 180 PAGES WERE POSTED ON SOCIAL MEDIA WITH

                    LOTS OF VIOLENCE POSTED WITHIN THOSE 180 PAGES, AND YET, YOU KNOW,

                    COULD A LAW LIKE THIS OR A BILL LIKE THIS HAVE PREVENTED THAT?  WE DON'T

                    KNOW.  BUT WE KNOW WE NEED TO DO MORE AND WE NEED MORE

                    TRANSPARENCY.  AND SO IT'S A MATTER OF DO WE WAIT OR DO WE NOT FOR THE

                    FEDS AND I SAY WE DON'T.  WE'VE GOT TO START.  AND QUITE FRANKLY, I THINK

                    WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE -- MORE COOPERATION GIVEN THE -- THE HORRORS

                    OF THE LAST TWO WEEKS, LET ALONE OF ALMOST DAILY VIOLENCE.  AND -- AND

                    THE USE, THE EXPLOSIVE -- IN 2020 THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT ISSUED --

                    ISSUED A -- A STUDY SAYING RACIST VIOLENCE IS BOTH ON THE, QUOTE, "ON THE

                    RISE AND SPREADING GEOGRAPHICALLY", END QUOTE, AS WHITE SUPREMACISTS

                    INCREASINGLY TARGET MINORITY GROUPS LIKE IMMIGRANTS, ETHNIC MINORITIES,

                    LGBTQ AND OTHER, QUOTE, "PERCEIVED ENEMIES".  SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE

                    -- WE CAN'T WAIT IS THE SIMPLE ANSWER.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  I THINK ALL OF US PROBABLY IN THIS

                    CHAMBER HAVE SOME SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS, WHETHER WE'RE ACTIVE OR

                    NOT.  BUT I'M -- I'M SURE EVERYBODY HERE HAS AN ACCOUNT.  AND, YOU

                    KNOW, AS -- AS LIZA MINELLI ONCE SAYING, YOU KNOW, IF I CAN MAKE IT

                    HERE I CAN MAKE IT ANYWHERE.  OBVIOUSLY, NEW YORK IS ROUGH AND

                    TUMBLE.  IT IS -- YOU KNOW, POLITICS CAN BE -- CAN BE ROUGH.  ALL OF US,

                    I'M SURE, HAVE GOTTEN NOTIFICATIONS OF SOME OF THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS

                    THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID ABOUT EACH OF US.  AND I THINK THE -- THE

                    QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS, YOU KNOW, LOOK, OBVIOUSLY ANYONE WHO IS A

                    RACIST OR BIGOTED OR HOMOPHOBIC OR ATTACKING SOMEBODY ELSE BECAUSE

                                         205



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OF WHO THEY ARE, THAT IS A -- THAT IS A PROBLEM.  IT'S A SOCIETAL PROBLEM

                    THAT WE HAVE TO -- TO CONTINUE TO COMBAT.  BUT I GUESS THE QUESTION IS,

                    YOU KNOW, MANY OF US, I'M SURE AT TIMES, LIKE I SAID, HAVE BEEN CALLED

                    SOME OF THE WORST THINGS.  I'VE BEEN CALLED A FASCIST.  I DIDN'T KNOW THAT

                    -- THAT MY VIEWS WERE SO REPREHENSIBLE, BUT, YOU KNOW, DOES THAT INCITE

                    HATE?  DOES THAT INCITE VIOLENCE?  LIKE, WHO IS SUPPOSED TO REGULATE

                    THIS?  WHO IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION?  AND I KNOW AS MY

                    COLLEAGUE SAID THAT THIS BILL IS NOT SAYING WHAT THEY SHOULD DO, BUT LIKE

                    WHERE'S THE LINE IN YOUR MIND AS TO WHAT SHOULD BE REGULATED VERSUS

                    WHAT SHOULD BE NOT?  SHOULD -- SHOULD PEOPLE ON SOCIAL MEDIA BE

                    ALLOWED TO SAY THINGS ABOUT THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS?  YOU KNOW, WE'VE

                    SEEN ELECTED OFFICIALS BE COMPARED TO -- TO HITLER, TO, YOU KNOW, ET

                    CETERA.  I MEAN, WHERE -- WHERE IS THAT LINE THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR TO

                    STOP THAT HATRED, STOP THAT VIOLENCE FROM OCCURRING?

                                 MS. FAHY:  IT -- FIRST OF ALL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, AGAIN,

                    AND BEING AS FRANK AS I CAN BE, WE ARE -- WE ARE TAKING SOME VERY SMALL

                    STEPS HERE, RIGHT, TO TRY TO BE PROACTIVE.  ONCE AGAIN, GOVERNMENT IS

                    TRYING TO CATCH UP WITH TECHNOLOGY.  AND -- AND WE'RE -- WHAT WE'RE

                    ASKING IN THIS CASE, WE'RE ASKING THOSE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES, IN THIS

                    CASE SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORKS, TO ASSIST US.  WE CANNOT -- WE COULD NOT

                    WITH A THOUSAND ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS TOMORROW ASSIGNED TO THIS, THERE

                    IS NO WAY WE COULD DO THIS THROUGH -- THROUGH GOVERNMENT.  WE NEED

                    THAT ASSISTANCE WITH THAT REPORTING AND THE -- THE MECHANISM -- WELL,

                    SORRY -- THE MONITORING ON THE PART OF THE -- THE COMPANY ITSELF AND

                    THEN THE MECHANISM FOR MAKING IT EASILY REPORTABLE.  WE'RE NOT TELLING

                                         206



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THEM WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS.  WE DON'T SAY THEY BE FINED IF -- WE'RE NOT

                    SAYING WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO WITH IT OTHER THAN TO SHOW US HOW THEY

                    WOULD RESPOND AND ADDRESS IT.  SO THESE ARE SMALL STEPS.  BUT IT IS AN

                    EFFORT BECAUSE I -- BECAUSE OF THAT RECOGNITION.  SO REGULATION, IT'S A --

                    WE'RE NOT REGULATING AT THIS POINT, WE ARE -- WE ARE EMPOWERING,

                    HOWEVER, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO -- TO FOLLOW THROUGH AND MAKE SURE

                    THAT COMPANIES ARE COMPLYING.  OR -- OR ENABLING HER TO FINE WHERE

                    THEY ARE NOT COMPLYING.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  BUT IF WE'RE SAYING THAT THEY NEED TO

                    COME UP WITH SOME MECHANISM TO REPORT AND THEY NEED TO LET US KNOW

                    HOW THEY MAY RESPOND TO HATEFUL CONDUCT, WHAT IF THEIR RESPONSE IS,

                    YOU KNOW, THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO REMOVE IT?  THAT'S A RESPONSE.  I

                    MEAN, SO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO AFTER THEM FOR

                    NOT REMOVING WHAT SHE DEEMS HATEFUL?

                                 MS. FAHY:  THIS DOES NOT EMPOWER HER IN THAT

                    REGARD.  AGAIN, THAT MAY BE OTHER LEGISLATION, BUT -- BUT THIS DOES NOT --

                    UNFORTUNATELY, DOES NOT EMPOWER HER.  BUT I THINK SOME OF THIS IS THE

                    MORALITY OF -- OF THE SITUATION.  WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO GO AFTER HERE,

                    AGAIN, WITH BILLIONS OF POSTS EVERY DAY, WE REALLY ARE TRYING TO TARGET

                    THIS ON INCITING VIOLENCE.  THE -- THE HATEFUL CONDUCT MOVING TOWARD

                    THAT INCITING OF VIOLENCE, RIGHT?  SO IT'S A -- IT'S A -- IT'S A HIGHER

                    THRESHOLD THAN JUST CALLING YOU A NAME OR CALLING ME A NAME.  WE'VE

                    ALL BEEN CALLED NAMES HERE.  BUT IT'S -- IT'S MOVING TOWARD THAT INCITING

                    OF VIOLENCE, THE HATEFUL CONDUCT --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WELL --

                                         207



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. FAHY:  -- MOVING TOWARD VIOLENCE TOWARD

                    TARGETED CLASSES OF PEOPLE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  I -- I THINK WHERE SOME OF THE

                    CONCERN IS AND -- AND THE NEW YORK CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION RAISED,

                    OBVIOUSLY, THE ISSUE OF THIS BE -- THIS BILL BEING PREEMPTED BY FEDERAL

                    LAW AND POTENTIALLY PRESENTING A FIRST AMENDMENT PROBLEM, BUT REALLY

                    THE DEFINITION OF HATEFUL CONDUCT BEING QUITE VAGUE, AND WHERE WE SAY

                    VILIFY, HUMILIATE OR INCITE VIOLENCE.  SO IT'S NOT JUST THE VIOLENCE PART,

                    IT'S VILIFYING AND HUMILIATING.  SO THE -- THE -- IT'S NOT AND, IT'S OR.  SO I

                    GUESS THE QUESTION BECOMES WHO'S COMING UP WITH THE DEFINITION OF

                    VILIFY OR HUMILIATE, WHICH IS PART OF WHAT MY COLLEAGUE WAS ASKING AT

                    THE BEGINNING.  THIS IS, YOU KNOW, YOUR DEFINITION OF WHAT IT IS TO VILIFY

                    SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY I POSTED A PICTURE OF SOMEBODY WEARING

                    A FANNY PACK AND -- AND, YOU KNOW, MADE A JOKE ABOUT IT, RIGHT?  LIKE,

                    THAT MAY BE VILIFYING SOMEBODY OR -- OR HUMILIATING THEM.  BUT WHAT IS

                    KIND OF THE -- WHAT'S THE DEFINITION?  WHO -- WHO IS GOING TO DECIDE

                    THAT?

                                 MS. FAHY:  AGAIN, THIS WOULD BE -- YOU KNOW, THIS

                    WOULD BE A -- LAID WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.  AND I -- THE WAY THIS IS

                    READ IT REALLY IS, IN MY VIEW, IT'S -- IT'S THE -- THE WHOLE PHRASE OF -- IT'S

                    -- IT'S HATEFUL CONDUCT USING SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORKS TO VILIFY, HUMILIATE

                    OR INCITE VIOLENCE.  I STILL THINK IT'S ALL -- IT'S ALL -- YOU COULD READ IT AS

                    MODIFYING VIOLENCE, HATEFUL CONDUCT MODIFYING THE VIOLENCE IS ONE

                    READ OF IT.  HUMILIATING SOMEBODY -- AGAIN, WITH BILLIONS OF POSTS EVERY

                    DAY, I DON'T THINK THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS LOOKING FOR POSTS THAT MAY

                                         208



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HURT YOUR FEELINGS OR HUMILIATE -- YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PEOPLE MAY BE

                    HUMILIATED WITH DIFFERENT THINGS.  IT REALLY IS LEANING TOWARD THAT

                    HATEFUL CONDUCT AND LEADING TOWARD VIOLENCE.  I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT --

                    THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO GET AT.  THAT'S THE PATTERN THAT WE ARE

                    SEEING ALL TOO REPEATEDLY, REPEATEDLY WITH THE -- THE PROFILES THAT HAVE

                    BEEN DONE OF MASS MURDERERS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO -- SO THE INTENT IS NOT SO MUCH TO

                    GO AFTER POLITICAL SPEECH, BUT JUST --

                                 MS. FAHY:  NO.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  -- BUT TO GO AFTER THOSE WHO WOULD

                    USE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS TO SUGGEST THAT OTHERS, YOU KNOW, COMMIT

                    VIOLENT ACTS OR -- OR SUGGEST THAT THEY ARE GOING TO COMMIT VIOLENT ACTS?

                                 MS. FAHY:  THAT'S MORE HOW I READ IT.  AGAIN, I

                    THINK THAT WORD INCITING VIOLENCE IS -- IS PROBABLY THE KEY WORD HERE.

                    AND I THINK WE NEED A HIGH THRESHOLD, RIGHT?  WE WANT -- WE WANT

                    THESE NETWORKS WORKING, COOPERATING.  WE WANT THEM HAVING THAT CLEAR

                    AND CONCISE POLICY OF -- OF WHAT THEY'RE MONITORING, BUT WE ALSO WANT

                    THAT REPORTING MECHANISM.  AGAIN, WE -- WHAT I'VE READ, SEE

                    SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING IN NEW YORK CITY HAS BEEN SOMEWHAT

                    EFFECTIVE, RIGHT?  THE AIRPORTS USE IT.  IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S BEEN -- SO THIS IS --

                    IN MY VIEW, THIS IS SIMILAR TO THAT.  WE ARE LOOKING FOR THAT ASSISTANCE.

                    IN NEW YORK CITY IT'S FROM THE PUBLIC, HERE IT IS FROM THE SOCIAL MEDIA

                    PLATFORMS BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY ANY GOVERNMENT ENTITY CAN MONITOR

                    BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF POSTS EVERY DAY.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OH, I -- I AGREE WITH THAT.

                                         209



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. FAHY:  SO I SEE IT AS A HIGH THRESHOLD.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  I AGREE WITH THAT.  I THINK SOME OF

                    THE CONCERN REALLY AS WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, I MEAN, I --

                    I -- PERSONALLY, I THINK SOCIAL MEDIA IS GENERALLY TOXIC.

                                 MS. FAHY:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  IT -- IT IS -- THERE'S VERY FEW POSITIVE

                    THINGS ON IT.  YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE JUST KEYBOARD WARRIORS.  YOU

                    KNOW, THEY'RE -- THEY'RE HAPPY TO ATTACK.  MANY OF THE THINGS THAT

                    PEOPLE WOULD SAY ON SOCIAL MEDIA THEY'D NEVER SAY TO YOUR FACE.

                                 MS. FAHY:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO IT -- IT'S -- I THINK GENERALLY

                    SPEAKING IT -- IT -- IT'S BECOME A VERY TOXIC COMPONENT TO OUR POLITICAL

                    DISCOURSE.  I DON'T THINK THERE'S MANY INTELLIGENT DISCUSSIONS ON SOCIAL

                    MEDIA.  IT IS A LOT OF ECHO CHAMBERING GROUP THINKING AND PEOPLE JUST

                    WANTING TO REINFORCE THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVES.  AND FRANKLY, I THINK THE

                    WAY THE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES HAVE OPERATED WITH THEIR ALGORITHMS,

                    THEY FEED INTO THAT.

                                 MS. FAHY:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO THAT I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT

                    DOES NEED TO BE LOOKED AT AND -- AND REGULATED FROM A FEDERAL

                    PERSPECTIVE.  I DO HAVE CONCERN ABOUT STATE-BY-STATE-BY-STATE TRYING TO

                    REGULATE SOMETHING THAT REALLY CROSSES STATE BOUNDARIES.  AND I THINK

                    ALSO THERE IS A PROBLEM WHERE SOME OF THESE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES

                    ARE NOT CONSISTENT IN HOW THEY APPLY THEIR OWN INTERNAL RULES WITH

                    RESPECT TO VILIFYING, HUMILIATING OR INCITING VIOLENCE.  THEY SEEM TO BE

                                         210



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OKAY WHEN THINGS ARE SAID ABOUT CERTAIN PEOPLE OR GROUPS AND

                    OBVIOUSLY NOT WHEN THINGS ARE SAID ABOUT OTHERS.  WE SHOULD BE

                    CONSISTENT IN HAVING ZERO TOLERANCE FOR ANYONE INCITING VIOLENCE IN ANY

                    WAY, WHETHER IT'S STORMING A CAPITOL, WHETHER IT IS TAKING CONTROL OF A

                    FEDERAL COURTHOUSE FOR, YOU KNOW, NEARLY 100 DAYS.  THERE SHOULD BE

                    NO TOLERANCE FOR ANY OF IT.  AND I -- AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THERE HAS

                    BEEN --

                                 (BUZZER SOUNDS)

                                 -- A LACK OF CONSISTENCY ACROSS THE BOARD ON THIS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAWLER, YOU HAVE

                    EXPENDED YOUR TIME.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  HAPPILY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. FAHY:  IF -- IF I COULD JUST ADD ON -- ON THE BILL

                    AND IN RESPONSE.  WE FULLY AGREE ON EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED, AND

                    YES, SOCIAL MEDIA HAS BECOME QUITE TOXIC.  I WOULD MAKE ONE

                    EXCEPTION TO THAT, AND THAT IS I DON'T BELIEVE WE CAN WAIT ON THE FEDERAL

                    GOVERNMENT ANYMORE BEFORE WE CAN MORE PROACTIVELY REQUIRE THE

                    MEDIA COMPANIES THEMSELVES TO DO THIS AND BEGIN TO WORK TO MONITOR

                    THEM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ANGELINO.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE MADAM SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                         211



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY YIELDS.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THANK YOU VERY

                    MUCH FOR INDULGING ME WITH A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS.  I HAVE SOME

                    GRAVE CONCERNS ABOUT FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS WITH THIS, AND I THINK

                    MANY IN MY CAUCUS DO.  MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ALLEVIATE SOME OF THAT

                    BECAUSE I AGREE THIS IS SOMETIMES, AS MY COLLEAGUE IN FRONT JUST SAID, IT

                    CAN REALLY GET INCITEFUL AT TIMES.  I'M READING PARAGRAPH A -- EXCUSE

                    ME, -- YES, IT'S PARAGRAPH A, THE CLASSES OF PEOPLE BASED ON RACE, COLOR,

                    RELIGION, ETHNICITY, NATIONAL ORIGIN, DISABILITY, SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION,

                    GENDER OR GENDER EXPRESSION.  WOULD THIS INCLUDE -- A BUZZ THING

                    HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IS GENDER PRONOUNS.  WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING

                    THAT -- IS THAT INCITEFUL OR HUMILIATING (INAUDIBLE) THIS BILL?

                                 MS. FAHY:  I'M NOT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, BUT I DON'T

                    -- I DON'T READ IT AS -- THAT AS HATEFUL CONDUCT NOR AS ANY ABILITY TO LEAD

                    TOWARD INCITING VIOLENCE.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  WE -- WE'VE SEEN RECENTLY A LOT OF

                    THAT IS BEING USED RIGHT NOW FOR -- AGAINST -- THE BIG CASE WAS A HIGH

                    SCHOOL STUDENT WHO REFUSED AND SAID IT WAS HIS RIGHT TO USE A DIFFERENT

                    PRONOUN.  BUT ANOTHER CASE, AND IT'S NOT COVERED ON HERE AND IT CAN GET

                    QUITE -- QUITE HEATED IS DEBATE ON SPORTS TEAMS, AND THAT LANGUAGE CAN

                    SOMETIMES TURN INTO, WE'RE GONNA -- WE'RE GONNA MURDER YOU OR THINGS

                    LIKE THAT.  THESE AREN'T GOING TO TRIGGER SOME SORT OF ALGORITHM ON A

                    WEBSITE PAGE AND SAY, OH, MY GOSH, YOU KNOW, RED FLAG THIS GUY.

                                 MS. FAHY:  QUITE FRANKLY, AGAIN, SINCE THEY -- MANY

                                         212



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS HAVE BECOME QUITE SOPHISTICATED AND QUITE

                    PROFICIENT AT CREATING ALGORITHMS.  I WOULD THINK IF SOMEBODY IS TALKING

                    ABOUT THE MURDER OF ANY GROUP OR CLASS OF INDIVIDUALS THAT IT WOULD

                    TRIGGER A MINIMUM REPORTING MECHANISM.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  I KNOW I HAVE BEEN ON VETERANS'

                    CHAT GROUPS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PROBLEM OF SUICIDE AMONGST

                    VETERANS, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE ALL HAVE BEEN FLAGGED AND WE GET THE

                    CRISIS HOTLINE NUMBER DIRECTED TO US THROUGH A DIRECT MESSAGE.  SO I'M

                    JUST CONCERNED THAT THE CLASSES IN THERE, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LIKE

                    EMPLOYMENT.  LIKE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE PROTECTED HERE.  WE'RE

                    SUPPOSED TO HAVE THICK SKIN AND TAKE THIS.

                                 MS. FAHY:  WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE WHAT?  I'M

                    SORRY.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THICK -- WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE

                    THICK SKIN AND TAKE THESE THREATS?

                                 MS. FAHY:  WELL, AGAIN, I THINK DEPENDING UPON THE

                    GROUP OR --  OR CLASS OF PERSONS, AGAIN, IF IT IS TO INCITE VIOLENCE WE

                    WOULD WANT SOMETHING LIKE THAT REPORTED.  BUT GENERALLY -- GENERALLY,

                    AGAIN, THIS IS TARGETED AT -- AT THE GROUPS OR CLASSES OF PERSONS BASED ON,

                    AGAIN, THEIR RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, ETHNICITY, NATIONAL ORIGIN, DISABILITY,

                    SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER IDENTITY OR GENDER EXPRESSION.  SO IT IS

                    --  BUT -- BUT -- BUT THAT IS A NEXT STEP FOR -- FOR INDIVIDUALS.  SO THE CASE

                    EARLIER WHERE IT'S TARGETING A GANG MEMBER FOR MURDER, THAT IS NOT --

                    THAT'S NOT SOMETHING COVERED UNDER THIS BILL.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                         213



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  WELL, EARLIER THIS YEAR IN MY

                    POSITION AS ASSEMBLYMEMBER SOMEBODY THREATENED ME, AND THE BCI

                    DOWNSTAIRS GOT INVOLVED.  IT DIDN'T REALLY BOTHER ME TOO MUCH, BUT I

                    KNOW THE -- THE HR STAFF HERE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT IT.  BUT I'M KIND OF

                    USED TO THAT FROM MY PREVIOUS LIFE, WHICH BRINGS ME TO A REAL GROUP OF

                    PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HUMILIATED AND VILIFIED, AND THAT'S THE CLASS OF

                    PEOPLE WHO ARE OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.  THAT'S REAL HATRED THERE

                    THAT'S BEING DIRECTED AT THEM, PARTICULARLY A COUPLE YEARS AGO IN THE

                    HEAT OF THE -- THE GEORGE FLOYD MURDER.  AND WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING

                    SOUR GRAPES, WE'RE TALKING REAL HATRED.  YOU KNOW, I -- THE NYPD

                    COMES TO MIND PRETTY QUICKLY BECAUSE WE SAW VIDEOS DOWN THERE THAT

                    TURNED INTO A COTTAGE INDUSTRY OF PEOPLE PULLING WATER BOTTLES OUT OF A

                    FANNY PACK RIGHT UP TO FIVE-GALLON BUCKETS OF WATER BEING POURED ON

                    THOSE NYPD OFFICERS.  AND I --  IF YOU'VE EVER SAW THE VIDEO YOU

                    WOULD DEFINITELY AGREE THEY WERE HUMILIATED AND THEY REALLY HAD NO

                    COURSE OF ACTION AFTER THAT.  I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY.  I'M LISTENING TO THE

                    DEBATE.  I HOPE THERE'S MORE BECAUSE I'M UNDECIDED IN THIS, BUT I WANT

                    TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR TRYING TO DO SOMETHING IN LIGHT OF WHAT'S BEEN

                    GOING ON.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MS. GLICK.

                                 MS. GLICK:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  BRIEFLY, I

                                         214



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A FEW COMMENTS.  FIRST, THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

                    BRINGING THIS FORWARD, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT NOT EVERYTHING

                    (INAUDIBLE) OUR WORLD ON SOCIAL MEDIA IS COARSE AND MAYBE A LITTLE OVER

                    AGGRESSIVE IN -- IN SOME INSTANCES.  BUT NOT ALL SOCIAL MEDIA IS LIKE

                    THAT.  THERE ARE A WHOLE RANGE OF FOLKS ON, WHETHER IT'S FACEBOOK OR

                    TWITTER, THAT FOCUS ON THINGS LIKE NATURE.  AND THEY'RE REALLY QUITE

                    SPECIFIC AND VERY SOOTHING.  I LIKE TO RE-TWEET SOME STUFF AROUND BIRDS.

                    SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW ME BECAUSE OF MY POLITICAL INVECTIVE

                    TOOK EXCEPTION TO THE FACT THAT THERE WERE JUST TOO MANY BIRDS, WHICH I

                    THOUGHT WAS THEIR PROBLEM, NOT MINE.  BUT AS YOU MAY KNOW, AS

                    ELECTED OFFICIALS WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO ACTUALLY BLOCK PEOPLE ON

                    TWITTER.  THERE WAS A COURT CASE, AND AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, PRESIDENT

                    TRUMP, AND SO WE CANNOT BLOCK PEOPLE.  BUT WHAT WE CAN DO ON OUR

                    OWN TWITTER FEED, AND I PRESUME -- I'M NOT ON FACEBOOK, BUT I

                    PRESUME THERE, TOO -- THAT YOU CAN SET UP A CRITERIA FOR BLOCKING.  AND

                    IF YOU ADMINISTER IT IN AN EVEN-HANDED WAY YOU CANNOT BE, I PRESUME,

                    SUED FOR BLOCKING SOMEONE.  SO I DON'T THINK IT'S ROCKET SCIENCE, AND I

                    THINK WE WOULD EXPECT THAT THE GENIUSES WHO CAN PROGRAM AND

                    DEVELOP ALGORITHMS COULD FIGURE OUT A WAY, A MORE EFFICIENT WAY THAN

                    THEY HAVE THUS FAR TO DO THAT.  SO I UNPINNED THAT TWEET WITH MY

                    BLOCKING CRITERIA SO ANYBODY WHO GOES TO MY SITE SEES IT.  POSTING OF

                    MISTAKEN OF FACTS, UNSAVORY COMMENTS ABOUT PERSONAL LIVES, THREATS OF

                    HARM, POSTS OR PEOPLE ENGAGED IN OR AFFILIATED WITH CHILD OR REVENGE

                    PORN -- THAT WAS TO GET AT SOMEBODY WHO WAS ACTUALLY THREATENING TO

                    SUE ME.  POSTS OR PEOPLE ENGAGED IN OR AFFILIATED WITH SEXUAL ASSAULT,

                                         215



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    USING ABUSIVE, SCATOLOGICAL OR INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE.  IT HAS CLEANED

                    UP SOME OF THE COMMENTS, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS ANYTHING THAT

                    THESE TECH COMPANIES COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO A BETTER JOB OF.

                    AND THEY REALLY OWE IT TO SOCIETY BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN PERNICIOUS AND IT

                    HAS BEEN USED TO ORGANIZE VIOLENT ACTIVITIES.  AND SO THEY HAVE A

                    RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING MONEY SELLING ADS, SELLING

                    PRIVATE INFORMATION AS THEY TRACK US IN OUR SEARCHES ONLINE.  THEY OWE

                    IT TO SOCIETY TO BE MORE RESPONSIBLE.  AND I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR

                    FOR HER EFFORT TO REQUIRE THEM TO DO A BETTER JOB OF REMOVING THE POISON

                    THAT IS UNDERMINING OUR CONFIDENCE IN FACTS, IN REALITY, CREATING

                    DIVISION AND UNDERMINING OUR ABILITY TO GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER.

                                 SO I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR.  I THINK IT'S A

                    MEASURED APPROACH.  AS SHE HAS SAID, A FIRST STEP, BUT IT IS A SIGNAL TO

                    THESE PLATFORMS THAT THEY ACTUALLY HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY.  THEY LIKE

                    TO SAY, WE'RE A TECH COMPANY, AND THERE'S NOTHING -- YOU KNOW, THEY'RE

                    NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING.  BUT THEY'RE MAKING MONEY AND THEY'RE

                    USING YOUR INFORMATION AND SELLING IT TO DATA BROKERS.  SO THEY ARE, THEY

                    ARE -- PART OF THEIR WORK IS TO BE MORE RESPONSIBLE AND TO STOP CREATING

                    A VEHICLE FOR DIVISION, MISINFORMATION, DISINFORMATION AND VIOLENCE

                    AND DIVISION AMONGST US.

                                 SO I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, MR. SPEAKER, AND I WANT TO

                    THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                         216



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  FIRST, I THINK IT SHOULD BE REALLY

                    CLEAR THAT THIS BILL DOESN'T -- ISN'T REALLY AIMED AT CONDUCT AT ALL.  IT'S

                    AIMED AT SPEECH.  SOMEONE SAYS HATEFUL CONDUCT, BUT WHAT WE'RE REALLY

                    TALKING ABOUT IS HATEFUL SPEECH ON SOCIAL PLATFORMS.  AND IT REGULATES

                    THREE TYPES OF SPEECH:  SPEECH THAT VILIFIES, SPEECH THAT HUMILIFIES AND

                    SPEECH THAT INCITES VIOLENCE.  THE FIRST AMENDMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN

                    VERY CLEAR THAT SPEECH THAT INVOLVES HUMILIATION OR VILIFICATION IS

                    GENERALLY PROTECTED.  AND IF YOU WANT TO SEE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT YOU

                    CAN SEE HOW MSNBC TREATS REPUBLICANS OR FOX NEWS TREATS

                    DEMOCRATS, AND IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S THEIR SPORT TO TRY TO VILIFY OR HUMILIATE

                    THE OPPOSITE PARTY.  THAT SPEECH IS PROTECTED.  ALWAYS HAS BEEN.  THE

                    THIRD CATEGORY IS SPEECH THAT INCITES VIOLENCE.  THAT SPEECH HAS NEVER,

                    EVER BEEN PROTECTED.  AND WE ALREADY HAVE ACTIONABLE CAUSES OF ACTION

                    HERE IN NEW YORK STATE WHICH HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES IF YOU'RE

                    A VICTIM OF SPEECH THAT'S INCITED VIOLENCE.  AS MY COLLEAGUES

                    MENTIONED, THE PROBLEM WHEN WE TRY TO PASS LEGISLATION THAT REGULATES

                    SPEECH, WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL TO BE CONSISTENT WITH

                    THE CONSTITUTION.  AND SO WHAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO REGULATE IS SPEECH

                    THAT'S ON A PLATFORM THAT IN MOST CASES IS OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK STATE.

                    IT'S MAINTAINED BY COMPANIES THAT ARE EITHER NATIONAL OR INTERNATIONAL.

                    SO IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE EXAMPLES -- THIS, BY THE WAY, DOESN'T

                    REGULATE SPEECH THAT INCITES VIOLENCE AGAINST ANYONE, IT HAS TO BE

                    VIOLENCE THAT'S INCITED AGAINST CERTAIN PEOPLE BASED ON RELIGION, RACE,

                                         217



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    COLOR, CREED, ETHNICITY, NATIONAL ORIGIN.  WHICH IS SOMETHING --

                    SOMEWHAT INTERESTING BECAUSE I WOULD GUESS IF YOU GOT ON THE INTERNET

                    RIGHT NOW YOU'D FIND A LOT OF ARTICLES THAT ARE VERY INCITE -- AIMED AT

                    INCITING VIOLENCE TOWARD RUSSIANS OR UKRAINIANS OR WHATEVER GROUP

                    MAY BE IN A VIOLENT SITUATION RIGHT NOW.

                                 SO I JUST URGE MY COLLEAGUES, MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT

                    IT, THIS IS A BILL THAT PURPORTS TO REGULATE SPEECH AND IN DOING SO IT NEEDS

                    TO BE NARROWLY TAILORED TO MEET A STRONG LEGITIMATE INTEREST OF

                    GOVERNMENT OR IT'S INVALID.  SO NOBODY HERE IN THIS ROOM -- I DON'T

                    THINK ANYONE HERE IN THIS ROOM SUPPORTS HATEFUL SPEECH.  I HOPE

                    NOBODY INTENTIONALLY USES SPEECH THAT HUMILIATES OR EMBARRASSES

                    ANYONE ELSE OR -- OR VILIFIES ANYONE ELSE.  I THINK THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE.

                    BUT I ALSO RECOGNIZE, AS ALL OF US DO AS POLITICIANS, THAT WE'RE THE

                    SUBJECT OF THAT SPEECH ON A REGULAR BASIS, AND THAT'S -- THAT'S ONE OF THE

                    NATURES OF OUR -- OF OUR DEMOCRACY THAT WE ALLOW UNCOMFORTABLE

                    SPEECH AND WE DON'T LEAVE IT TO SOME FOREIGN CORPORATION TO DECIDE

                    WHAT SPEECH IS TOO UNCOMFORTABLE OR TOO HUMILIATING OR TOO VILIFYING.

                    THAT'S NOT A ROLE FOR US TO DO AS A STATE TO APPOINT PRIVATE COMPANIES TO

                    BE AUTOMATIC CENSORS OF LANGUAGE THAT WE OURSELVES FEEL

                    UNCOMFORTABLE WITH.

                                 SO I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S DESIRE,

                    ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT YOU WITH EFFORTS TO CURB LANGUAGE THAT INCITES

                    VIOLENCE.  I WOULD POINT OUT IT HAS BEEN ON OUR BOOKS FOR DECADES AND I

                    CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THAT LANGUAGE AND EXPANDING IT IN DIFFERENT

                    MEDIUMS MAKES SENSE TO ME.  BUT I THINK THIS BILL NEEDS TO BE

                                         218



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NARROWED SO THAT WE MEET CONSTITUTIONAL OBJECTIVES WHILE RECOGNIZING

                    THAT OUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN BUILT ON A FOUNDATION THAT ENCOURAGES ROBUST

                    AND SOMETIMES UNCOMFORTABLE SPEECH.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.  AND AGAIN, THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR

                    FOR HER EFFORTS.

                                 I ALMOST FORGOT.  YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN WRESTLING WITH

                    THIS.  I THINK MY CAUCUS IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN THE NEGATIVE, SIR.

                    PART OF THE CHALLENGE WHEN WE DEAL WITH SUBJECTIVE WORDS IS THAT IT

                    CREATES THE POTENTIAL FOR A DONNYBROOK BECAUSE THERE'S NO GENERAL

                    ACCEPTED MEANING OF WHAT'S MEANT BY HUMILIATE OR VILIFY.  AND WHILE

                    WE ALL AGREE THAT VIOLENCE AND GENOCIDE, THOSE TYPES OF ACTIVITIES, ARE

                    CLEARLY OUTSIDE OF THE APPROPRIATE SCOPE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE

                    STAY AWAY FROM SUBJECTIVE TERMS RECOGNIZING THAT SOME THINGS THAT

                    SOME OF US LOVE, WHETHER IT'S SPEECH OR IN LIFE, OTHERS ABSOLUTELY HATE.

                    SO WE TRY TO STRIKE THAT BALANCE, SIR, AND AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING

                    ME TO COMMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 180 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7865-A.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  AS YOU MENTIONED,

                                         219



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED

                    OVER OUR CONCERNS ON FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

                    BUT CERTAINLY WE ARE OPPOSED TO HATEFUL SPEECH THAT INCITES VIOLENCE

                    AND WE DO SUPPORT RED-FLAG EFFORTS TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE AND HELP THEM

                    ADDRESS THEIR ISSUES.  BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT THIS CAN CERTAINLY VOTE YES

                    ON THE FLOOR OR CALL THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD LIKE TO

                    REMIND MY COLLEAGUES THAT THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WISHING

                    TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE IS WELCOME TO CALL THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE

                    AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY TO EXPLAIN

                    HER VOTE.

                                 MS. FAHY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY

                    VOTE.  AGAIN, THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORKS TO PROVIDE

                    A CLEAR AND CONCISE POLICY REGARDING HOW THEY WOULD RESPOND TO

                    INCIDENCES OF HATEFUL CONDUCT LEADING TOWARD THIS INCITING OF VIOLENCE

                    ON THEIR -- THEIR PLATFORMS AS WELL AS EASILY ACCESSIBLE MECHANISMS FOR

                    REPORTING THIS AND RESPONDING TO IT.  IT DOES NOT TELL THEM HOW TO DO

                    THIS, IT SIMPLY SAYS THEY MUST HAVE ONE.  THIS IS CUTTING EDGE, AS YOU

                    HEARD A LOT ABOUT TONIGHT.  CUTTING EDGE LEGISLATION.  WE'RE CHARTERING

                    SOME NEW TERRITORY HERE IN AN EFFORT TO BE PROACTIVE GIVEN THE REPEATED,

                                         220



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    REPEATED INCIDENCES OF WHERE, AGAIN, THE PROFILE OF MASS SHOOTERS THAT

                    80 PERCENT ARE SHOWING A CRISIS IN ADVANCE, AND OF THOSE AN ESTIMATED

                    ONE-HALF ARE ESTIMATED TO HAVE REVEALED THEIR PLANS AHEAD OF TIME ON

                    SOME TYPE OF SOCIAL MEDIA.  WE NEED TO BE PROACTIVE.  THERE ARE

                    ROUGHLY FIVE BILLION POSTS, SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS, DONE DAILY, DAILY.  WE

                    NEED THE HELP.  WE NEED THE HELP OF THOSE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES.

                    WE KNOW JUST FROM THE HORRORS OF THE BUFFALO SHOOTER THAT -- THAT

                    MASSACRE JUST TWO WEEKS AGO, THERE WAS A 180-PAGE DOCUMENT FILED

                    ONLINE BEFORE THAT MASSACRE.  ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.  IN 2020, WELL BEFORE

                    THIS THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAID THAT RACIST VIOLENCE IS ON THE RISE AND

                    SPREADING, INCREASINGLY TARGETING MINORITY GROUPS SUCH AS IMMIGRANTS,

                    ETHNIC MINORITIES, LGBTQ AND OTHER, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, "PERCEIVED

                    ENEMIES."  WE NEED A MULTI-PRONGED ATTACK.  THAT'S MUCH ABOUT WHAT

                    NEW YORK HAS BEEN ABOUT THESE LAST FEW DAYS.

                                 AND WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I -- I THANK MY SENATE

                    SPONSOR, I THANK THE SPEAKER AND I THANK THE CHAIR OF THE SENATE --

                    SORRY, THE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY FOR HELPING TO MOVE THIS BILL

                    FORWARD.  AND WITH THAT I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. LAVINE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THANK YOU.  VERY, VERY BRIEFLY, I JUST

                    WANT TO CORRECT THE RECORD.  I THINK DURING THE COLLOQUY THERE WAS --

                    SOMEONE MADE A REFERENCE TO THE FACT THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAD

                                         221



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    UPHELD THE TEXAS LAW.  THE TEXAS LAW IS HB20.  THE TEXAS LAW

                    PUNISHED PLATFORMS FOR REMOVING OFFENSIVE SPEECH.  SO IT SEEMS TO ME

                    WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS REALLY JUST THE OPPOSITE.  IT REQUIRES A SET OF

                    POLICIES AND IT PROVIDES INDIVIDUALS WITH THE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

                    WITH THE SOCIAL PLATFORM COMPANY IN ORDER TO LODGE CONCERNS ABOUT

                    CONTENT AND CONDUCT.  YES, IT'S A DANGEROUS NEW WORLD WE'RE ALL

                    INVOLVED IN.  NOTHING NEW THERE, I THINK THAT'S BEEN THE STORY OF OUR

                    LIVES.  BUT I THINK THAT THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND I'M GOING

                    TO BE VERY PLEASED TO VOTE FOR IT.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAVINE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. DURSO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  I WANT TO AGREE WITH THE SPONSOR AND THANK YOU BECAUSE,

                    AGAIN, I APPLAUD YOUR EFFORTS ON THIS AND I DO AGREE WITH YOU THAT WE

                    NEED TO DO SOMETHING.  THE PROBLEM IS, THIS BILL IN THE END IS GOING TO

                    DO NOTHING AND THAT'S MY CONCERN.  I'M WORRIED THAT IT MAY LULL US INTO

                    A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.  HAVING A REPORT BUTTON ON SOCIAL MEDIA

                    WEBSITES IS A GREAT THING AND I AGREE WITH IT.  AND WE CAN'T HAVE HATEFUL

                    CONDUCT GOING, INCITING VIOLENCE AGAINST PROTECTED CLASSES AND I

                    COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU.  THE PROBLEM IS THERE'S NO MECHANISM IN

                    PLACE AT THE CURRENT TIME FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO MOVE FORWARD

                    AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE CONDUCT THAT GOES UP ON A SOCIAL MEDIA

                    SITE THAT MAYBE BEGAN IN A DIFFERENT STATE.  SO UNTIL WE GET THAT IN PLACE

                                         222



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    -- AGAIN, WE'RE PUTTING A BILL IN PLACE BEFORE WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO

                    ENFORCE IT.  AND AGAIN, I JUST -- I'M CONCERNED WITH THE UNINTENDED

                    CONSEQUENCES THAT COULD COME OUT OF IT.  I AGREE, SOMETHING NEEDS TO

                    BE DONE.  I APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS TO DO SOMETHING.  BUT AGAIN, I JUST -- I

                    -- I MORE FEAR THAT ONCE AGAIN WE'RE GOING TO PUT TOGETHER A TASK FORCE

                    OR A BILL OR PUT SOMETHING FORWARD, NO ONE'S GOING TO MEET, NOTHING'S

                    GOING TO GET DONE WITH IT, AND I FEEL THAT THERE COULD BE MORE HARM

                    THAN GOOD WITH THAT.  I WOULD LOVE TO HELP YOU SPONSOR SOMETHING LATER

                    THAT WILL ACTUALLY LEAD TO SOMETHING AND THAT WE COULD DO SOMETHING,

                    MAYBE WRITE A LETTER TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, HAVE THEM DO IT.  THEY

                    COULD DO IT THROUGHOUT THE STATES -- THE UNITED STATES.  BUT NEW YORK

                    STATE, ONCE AGAIN, AS ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES SAID, WE'RE ALWAYS RUSHED

                    TO BE THE FIRST, BUT LET'S BE THE BEST.  LET'S DO IT RIGHT.  LET'S DO

                    SOMETHING TO ACTUALLY EFFECT CHANGE AND MAYBE WE COULD HELP SOME OF

                    OUR KIDS THAT DO GO ON SOCIAL MEDIA SITES.  AND SOCIAL MEDIA, TO ME, IS

                    DISGUSTING.  I CAN'T STAND IT.  I NEVER HAVE UNTIL I RAN FOR OFFICE.  I STILL

                    DON'T WANT IT.  I THINK IT'S -- IT'S JUST HORRIBLE.  BUT UNTIL WE CAN DO THAT

                    AND SOMEONE CAN ACTUALLY EFFECTUATE THE CHANGE AND HAVE THAT

                    MECHANISM IN PLACE, I JUST FEEL IT'S GOING TO DO NOTHING.  SO I'M GOING

                    TO VOTE NO ON THIS BILL.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. DURSO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. WALLACE TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. WALLACE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

                                         223



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WANT TO COMMEND THE

                    SPONSOR FOR PUTTING FORTH THIS LEGISLATION WHICH, TO BE CLEAR, JUST

                    REQUIRES THE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES TO HAVE A POLICY.  IT'S NOT TELLING

                    THEM WHAT THAT POLICY SHOULD BE, IT'S NOT FORCING THEM TO -- TO APPLY

                    THEIR OWN POLICY.  IT IS JUST TELLING THEM THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE A POLICY.

                    AND BECAUSE WE'RE NOT TELLING SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES WHAT THAT

                    POLICY SHOULD BE, IT DOES NOT, I DO NOT BELIEVE, IMPLICATE THE FIRST

                    AMENDMENT.  PERSONALLY, I WISH WE WOULD GO FURTHER.  I WISH WE

                    WOULD HOLD SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR FAILURE TO

                    BETTER POLICE THEMSELVES AND POLICE THEIR CONTENT.  WE KNOW FOR A FACT

                    THAT THE BUFFALO TERRORIST WAS INSPIRED AND RADICALIZED BY HATEFUL

                    CONDUCT THAT HE READ ON THE INTERNET.  AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT HE

                    RECORDED THE MASSACRE FOR ALL TO SEE.  DOING NOTHING IS NO LONGER AN

                    OPTION.  SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES ARE MAKING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OFF OF

                    THEIR PLATFORMS WITH ZERO, ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY.  UNFORTUNATELY, AS HAS

                    BEEN SAID, WE ARE LIMITED IN WHAT WE CAN DO BECAUSE CONGRESS IN ITS

                    INFINITE WISDOM, OR I WOULD SUGGEST MAYBE LACK THEREOF, HAS FAILED --

                    HAS CHOSEN TO GIVE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES COMPLETE IMMUNITY.

                    WHILE THAT MIGHT HAVE MADE SENSE WHEN THE INTERNET WAS FIRST STARTING,

                    I THINK GIVEN THE GOLIATH POSITION THAT THESE COMPANIES HAVE IN OUR

                    SOCIETY RIGHT NOW AND THE HARM THAT THEY ARE CAUSING, WE -- CONGRESS

                    SHOULD REVISIT THAT ISSUE.  BUT IN THE MEANTIME I APPLAUD THE SPONSOR

                    FOR TRYING TO NIP THE EDGES AND ENCOURAGE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES TO

                    START POLICING THEMSELVES.

                                 SO I PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                         224



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. WALLACE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MY

                    COLLEAGUE MR. SMITH IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 10, RULES REPORT NO. 318, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S05356, RULES REPORT NO.

                    318, SENATOR BRESLIN (A08159, BRONSON, FAHY, COLTON, REYES, STECK,

                    LUNSFORD, MCDONALD).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF CONSULTANT CONTRACTS BY STATE

                    AGENCIES AND ENSURING THE EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE USE OF STATE TAX

                    DOLLARS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. BRONSON.

                                 MR. BRONSON:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL WOULD

                    REQUIRE STATE AGENCIES TO CONDUCT A COST COMPARISON BEFORE ENTERING

                    INTO CONTRACTS FOR CONSULTING SERVICES IF THAT CONTRACT IS ANTICIPATED TO

                    COST IN EXCESS OF $1 MILLION WITHIN A 12-MONTH PERIOD, AND THE ANALYSIS

                    WOULD BE FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETERMINING WHETHER SUCH SERVICES CAN

                    BE PERFORMED AT AN EQUAL OR LOWER COST BY UTILIZING STATE EMPLOYEES.

                    THE OBJECTIVE OF THE BILL IS TO ENSURE THE EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE USE OF

                                         225



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    STATE TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BRONSON, WILL

                    YOU YIELD, SIR?

                                 MR. BRONSON:  YES, I WILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    BRONSON.  AS YOU KNOW, THIS BILL HAS BEEN VETOED SEVERAL TIMES BY THE

                    FORMER GOVERNOR WHO DECIDED THAT THE COST OF DOING THIS ANALYSIS AND

                    THE DELAY WOULD ACTUALLY OVERALL INCREASE THE COST TO THE TAXPAYERS

                    RATHER THAN REDUCE COST.  AND OF COURSE YOU AND I BOTH WANT TO KEEP

                    COST AS EFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE.  THAT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF YOUR BILL.

                    HAS THIS BILL BEEN CHANGED SINCE THEN TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS?

                                 MR. BRONSON:  ACTUALLY, I THINK THE VETO MESSAGES

                    INDICATED THAT THE GOVERNOR IN HIS BELIEF INDICATED THAT AGENCIES WERE

                    ALREADY DOING THIS ANALYSIS, WHICH I DISAGREE WITH, AND ALSO THAT THERE

                    MAY BE A DELAY IN GOING FORWARD WITH LETTING OUT CONTRACTS.  I DON'T

                    BELIEVE THE GOVERNOR INDICATED IN HIS VARIOUS VETO MESSAGES THAT THE

                    COST OF PERFORMING THE ANALYSIS WOULD BE PROHIBITIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  YOU INDICATED THAT THE GOVERNOR,

                    WHO IS OF COURSE THE HEAD OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THOUGHT THE

                    EXECUTIVE BRANCH WAS ALREADY DOING IT.  YOU DIDN'T THINK THE

                    EXECUTIVE BRANCH WAS DOING IT.  HOW WOULD YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT

                                         226



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THEY'RE DOING IT?

                                 MR. BRONSON:  WELL, BECAUSE IN HIS VETO MESSAGE

                    THE GOVERNOR INDICATED IN ALL OF HIS VETO MESSAGES THAT THE ANALYSIS,

                    ONE, ESTABLISHES AND DOCUMENTS THE NEED FOR SERVICES; TWO, ENSURES

                    THAT THE COST IS REASONABLE; AND THREE, ANALYZE THE EXISTENCE OF NEEDED

                    RESOURCES AVAILABLE AT AN AGENCY.  THOSE THREE ITEMS ARE INCLUDED IN

                    THIS ANALYSIS, BUT THIS ANALYSIS REQUIRES MUCH MORE.  SO I WOULD ARGUE

                    TO THE GOVERNOR IN HIS VETO MESSAGES THAT THAT IS NOT THE SAME ANALYSIS

                    THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED IF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WERE TO BECOME LAW.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I GUESS MY QUESTION REMAINS,

                    THOUGH, HOW WOULD YOU KNOW WHETHER THIS BILL IS BEING IMPLEMENTED

                    ASSUMING WE PASSED IT AND THE NEW GOVERNOR SIGNS IT?  HOW WOULD

                    YOU KNOW THAT?

                                 MR. BRONSON:  IF -- IF IT'S BEING IMPLEMENTED?

                    BECAUSE WE WOULD KNOW IF -- THERE'S TWO CRITERIA.  IF IT'S TEN PERCENT OR

                    MORE THERE'S A REQUIREMENT TO DO A BUSINESS PLAN.  THAT BUSINESS PLAN

                    WOULD BE REVIEWED BY THE COMPTROLLER.  IF IT IS TEN PERCENT OR LESS

                    MORE, THEN THERE IS A PERMISSIVE ABILITY TO DO A BUSINESS PLAN THAT

                    WOULD ALSO BE SENT TO THE COMPTROLLER.  SO WE WOULD KNOW WHETHER OR

                    NOT IT'S BEING DONE WHEN WE'RE REVIEWING CONTRACTS AND WHETHER THE

                    COMPTROLLER IS ISSUING REPORTS RELATED TO THOSE ANALYSIS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE

                    COMPTROLLER TO DO AUDITS OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO VERIFY WHETHER OR

                    NOT THEY WERE COMPLYING WITH THE COST ANALYSIS THAT WOULD BE CALLED

                    FOR UNDER THIS BILL?

                                         227



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. BRONSON:  THE -- THE COMPTROLLER WOULD BE

                    REQUIRED TO ISSUE A REPORT REGARDING THE INFORMATION RECEIVED FROM THE

                    SECOND FLOOR ON THEIR ANALYSIS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    BRONSON.  I APPRECIATE THOSE COMMENTS.

                                 ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. BRONSON:  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  CERTAINLY I SHARE THE SPONSOR'S

                    CONCERN AND A DESIRE THAT WE OPERATE SAFELY AND AS EFFICIENTLY AS

                    POSSIBLE.  THE GOVERNOR INDICATED THAT AT LEAST SOME LEVEL OF REVIEW IS

                    ALREADY BEING PERFORMED AS A MATTER OF ROUTINE AMONGST THE STATE

                    AGENCIES IN EVALUATING WHETHER THEY SHOULD DO WORK IN-HOUSE OR

                    CONTRACT IT OUT.  THIS BILL TAKES THAT PROCESS AND MAKES IT MORE FORMAL,

                    AND PROVIDES AN INDEPENDENT VERIFICATION THROUGH THE COMPTROLLER, AS

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD -- OR MENTIONED.  ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE ALWAYS

                    WRESTLE WITH WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH GOVERNMENT IS WHETHER OR NOT

                    THE PROCESS THAT WE USE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE EFFICIENT ITSELF CREATES

                    US AN INEFFICIENT SITUATION.  AND THAT'S EXACTLY THE CONCERN THAT'S BEEN

                    EXPRESSED BY THE AMERICAN COUNCIL OF ENGINEERING COMPANIES.  THEY

                    SAID THIS BILL IS UNNECESSARY AND BURDENSOME AND THAT IT WILL SERVE ONLY

                    TO INCREASE BUREAUCRACY AND INEFFICIENCY WITHIN THE STATE CONTRACTING

                    PROCESS.  THE BUSINESS COUNCIL ALSO WROTE THERE'S NO JUSTIFICATION FOR

                    THIS LEGISLATION, AS IT WOULD ONLY FURTHER BURDEN THE STATE BY EXPENDING

                    REVENUES TO PERFORM A TASK THAT THEY'RE ALREADY DOING.  THAT WAS

                                         228



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ECHOED BY THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF ARCHITECTS WHO SAID THE

                    REQUIREMENT WOULD ADD SEVERAL MONTHS TO THE FRONT END OF A PROJECT

                    AND DIVERT STAFF FROM THEIR CORE OF DUTIES.  AND SO IN EVERY SITUATION

                    WHERE WE'RE ALL STRIVING - THE SPONSOR, MYSELF, EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS

                    ROOM - TO OPERATE STATE GOVERNMENT AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE, WE JUST

                    WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE REVIEW PROCESS ITSELF DOESN'T COST MORE THAN

                    IT SAVES.  AND I'LL JUST POINT OUT ONE SIMPLE EXAMPLE.  WHEN I WAS

                    WORKING FOR THE COUNTY WE HAD AN AUDIT.  AND WHEN THE AUDIT WAS

                    DONE ONE OF OUR DEPARTMENTS DISCOVERED A HALF-A-MILLION-DOLLAR ERROR

                    THAT HAD BEEN MISSED BY THE AUDITING COMPANY.  AND I WAS VERY

                    THANKFUL THAT OUR OWN INTERNAL AUDITORS CAUGHT IT.  OUR EXTERNAL

                    AUDITORS SAID, YOU KNOW, BASED ON THAT ERROR WE SHOULD AUDIT EVERY

                    SINGLE ONE OF YOUR ACCOUNTS.  AND I SAID, THAT'S GREAT.  HOW MUCH

                    WOULD IT CHARGE AND HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SAVE US?

                    AND THE ANSWER IS IT WOULD COST SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND AND WE'D BE

                    LUCKY TO SAVE A FEW THOUSAND AND THE STUDY ITSELF EXCEEDED ANY

                    SAVINGS.  AND FOR THAT REASON I THINK YOU'LL FIND THAT THE REPUBLICAN

                    CAUCUS IS GOING TO BE SPLIT.  MANY OF US, IRONICALLY, MAY BELIEVE THE

                    GOVERNOR THAT THIS PROCESS IS ALREADY BEING CONDUCTED AS A MATTER OF

                    COMMONSENSE AND GOOD GOVERNMENT ON A ROUTINE BASIS AND A MORE

                    EXPENSIVE AND FORMALIZED PROCEDURE WON'T BE COST-EFFECTIVE.  THERE'S

                    OTHERS OF US WHO MIGHT NOT BELIEVE THE GOVERNOR'S PROTESTATIONS IN THE

                    PAST AND THINK A MORE FORMAL PROCEDURE IS JUSTIFIED.  AND SO I EXPECT

                    THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS TO BE SOMEWHAT SPLIT, REFLECTING THAT QUESTION

                    OF WHETHER OR NOT THE COST OF THE STUDY WILL EXCEED THE BENEFIT.

                                         229



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THANK YOU, SIR, AND AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 90 DAYS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 5356.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BRONSON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BRONSON:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  I ABSTAIN FOR THE

                    PURPOSES OF EXPLAINING MY VOTE.  THIS BILL IS INTENDED TO SAVE TAXPAYER

                    DOLLARS AND FINDING EFFICIENCIES.  IN NEW YORK STATE WE SPEND OVER $2

                    BILLION A YEAR ON CONSULTANT CONTRACTS, AND IN MANY CASES THESE

                    CONSULTANTS PERFORMED WORK THAT COULD BE DONE EASILY BY THE

                    PROFESSIONAL AND QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS WE HAVE IN THE STATE WORKFORCE.

                    BY SOME ESTIMATES THE STATE SPENDS 32 PERCENT MORE ON STATE CONTRACTS

                    AND CONSULTING TODAY THAN IT DID A DECADE AGO.  OVER THE YEARS VARIOUS

                    COMPTROLLERS, BOTH REPUBLICAN COMPTROLLERS AND DEMOCRAT

                    COMPTROLLERS, HAVE INDICATED WE COULD SAVE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF

                    DOLLARS IF WE DID AN ANALYSIS TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD

                    IN-SOURCE THIS WORK VERSUS OUT-SOURCE THIS WORK.  INDEED, THE FOLKS

                    WHO ARE OPPOSED TO THIS BILL ARE FOLKS WHO GET THESE CONTRACTS, SO THEY

                    HAVE A SELF INTEREST, A MONETARY INTEREST, TO SUGGEST THAT SOMEHOW THIS

                    IS GOING TO COST DELAYS AND BE MORE COSTLY WHEN, IN FACT, ANALYSIS BY

                    COMPTROLLERS, ANALYSIS BY AN ASSEMBLY TASK FORCE, ANALYSIS BY THE

                                         230



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SENATE HAVE ALL CONCLUDED THAT IF WE DO THIS COMPARISON BEFORE LETTING

                    OUT CONTRACTS WE'RE GOING TO BE SAVING TAXPAYER DOLLARS, AND THOSE

                    DOLLARS IN TURN COULD BE USED TO SPEND ON THE IMPORTANT PROGRAMS THAT

                    WE PROVIDE AS A STATE.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND I WILL VOTE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. BRONSON IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MY

                    COLLEAGUE MR. SIMPSON IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 366, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S02903-A, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 366, SENATOR KAVANAGH (A09877-A, CRUZ).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE COURT, PRIOR TO

                    ACCEPTING A PLEA, TO ADVISE THE DEFENDANT OF THE RISK OF DEPORTATION IF

                    HE OR SHE IS NOT A CITIZEN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MORINELLO.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. MORINELLO?

                                         231



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  AN EXPLANATION, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  OH.  USE THE MIC,

                    MR. MORINELLO.  MY EARS ARE GETTING A LITTLE WORSE.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I'M SORRY.  AN EXPLANATION,

                    PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ, AN

                    EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  IT'S GETTING LATE, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THANK YOU.  THIS IS A COURT NOTIFICATION

                    BILL, AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW IN RELATION TO

                    REQUIRING THE COURT, PRIOR TO ACCEPTING A PLEA, TO ADVISE A DEFENDANT OF

                    THEIR RISK OF DEPORTATION IF HE OR SHE IS NOT A CITIZEN.  THIS BILL WOULD

                    AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW TO REQUIRE THE COURT, PRIOR TO

                    ACCEPTING A GUILTY PLEA, TO ADVISE EVERY DEFENDANT OF THE RISK OF

                    DEPORTATION, DENIAL OF NATURALIZATION OR EXCLUSION FROM THE COUNTRY IF

                    HE OR SHE IS NOT A U.S. CITIZEN AND IS CONVICTED OF ANY OFFENSE.  THIS

                    CHANGE WOULD REQUIRE JUDGES IN ALL CASES, FELONY AS WELL AS

                    MISDEMEANORS, TO GIVE THE FOLLOWING NOTICE TO DEFENDANTS ORALLY AND

                    ON THE RECORD AT ARRAIGNMENT AND PRIOR TO ACCEPTING A GUILTY PLEA.  IF

                    YOU'RE NOT A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES YOU MAY BECOME DEPORTABLE,

                    INELIGIBLE FOR NATURALIZATION OR INADMISSIBLE TO THE UNITED STATES BASED

                    ON A CONVICTION BY PLEA OR VERDICT.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  THANK YOU.  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ, WILL YIELD?

                                         232



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. CRUZ:  (INAUDIBLE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  CERTAINLY.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  IS THERE A REQUIREMENT FOR A

                    NOTIFICATION OF THE ADMONISHMENT CURRENTLY?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YES, THERE IS.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  ALL RIGHT.  AND WHO HAS THAT

                    OBLIGATION?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  CAN YOU -- CAN YOU SAY THAT A LITTLE BIT

                    LOUDER?  I'M SORRY.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I'M SORRY.  WHO HAS THAT

                    OBLIGATION?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THE JUDGE HAS AN OBLIGATION TO PROVIDE

                    NOTIFICATION ON WHEN THERE IS A FELONY INVOLVED AND WHEN SOMEONE'S

                    TAKING A PLEA FOR A FELONY.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  NO, MY QUESTION WAS WHO

                    CURRENTLY HAS THAT OBLIGATION?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THE JUDGE.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  THE JUDGE CURRENTLY HAS THE

                    OBLIGATION?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YES.  THE JUDGE HAS THAT OBLIGATION

                    WHEN IT'S A FELONY CASE AS WELL AS THE ATTORNEY.  THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  ALL RIGHT.  SO THEN WHAT IS THE

                    CHANGE IN THIS ONE IF THE JUDGE ALREADY HAS THE OBLIGATION?

                                         233



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WE'RE EXPANDING IT TO ALSO INCLUDE

                    MISDEMEANORS AND WE'RE STANDARDIZING THE LANGUAGE THAT IS USED

                    BECAUSE CURRENTLY WHILE WE ARE REQUIRING A JUDGE TO MAKE A

                    NOTIFICATION, WE ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY SAYING WHAT LANGUAGE THE JUDGE

                    SHOULD USE AND IT HAS RESULTED IN -- IN CERTAIN DEFENDANTS TAKING PLEAS

                    THAT THEY PERHAPS WOULD HAVE NOT TAKEN, AS WELL AS DEFENSE ATTORNEYS

                    NOT BEING ABLE TO REPRESENT THEIR CLIENTS TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  BUT CURRENTLY THAT

                    ADMONISHMENT IS GIVEN TO PREVENT SOMEONE FROM TAKING A PLEA SO THAT

                    THEY WOULDN'T BE DEPORTED; AM I CORRECT?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  CURRENTLY -- I WOULD FRAME IT DIFFERENTLY.

                    IT'S NOT TO PREVENT SOMEONE, BUT IT'S TO ENSURE THAT SOMEONE HAS ENOUGH

                    INFORMATION WHEN THEY'RE MAKING THE DECISION TO TAKE THE PLEA.  THE

                    PROBLEM IS THAT BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE STANDARDIZED LANGUAGE YOU CAN

                    HAVE A JUDGE IN ONE COUNTY SAYING IT ONE WAY AND HAVING ONE OUTCOME,

                    VERSUS A JUDGE SAYING IT IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAY IN ANOTHER

                    COUNTY AND HAVING A DIFFERENT OUTCOME.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  BUT THE PURPOSE IS TO PREVENT OR

                    ACKNOWLEDGE -- TO HAVE SOMEONE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY COULD BE

                    SUBJECT TO DEPORTATION.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  CORRECT.  SO THIS IS TO ENSURE

                    THAT SOMEONE WHO HAS BROKEN THE LAW IN THIS COUNTRY WHO MAY NOT

                    HAVE LEGAL STATUS IN THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT GET DEPORTED, CORRECT?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THAT IS INCORRECT.  THIS IS TO ENSURE THAT

                                         234



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF A CRIME AND NOT YET ACTUALLY FOUND

                    GUILTY OR TAKEN A PLEA HAS ENOUGH INFORMATION TO ASSERT THEIR RIGHTS THAT

                    HAVE BEEN RECOGNIZED BY THE CONSTITUTION IN THE SUPREME COURT.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  OKAY.  BUT THAT -- THAT EXISTS

                    ONLY FOR NONCITIZENS?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  OKAY.  SO THIS BILL NOW FORCES A

                    JUDGE OR COMPELS A JUDGE TO GIVE THAT ADMONISHMENT TO CITIZENS ALSO

                    WHO ARE NOT SUBJECT TO DEPORTATION?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  OKAY.  UNDER THE EXISTING LAW

                    THEY CAN INQUIRE AS TO THE STATUS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  LET ME VERIFY THAT.  GIVE ME ONE

                    SECOND.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  SURE.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  OKAY.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THAT IS NOT WHAT IS TRIGGERED BY THIS

                    PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  THERE COULD BE IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES

                    WHERE A JUDGE MAY BE ABLE TO ASK THAT QUESTION.  BUT WHEN ADVISING

                    SOMEONE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE PLEA, WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS

                    PROVIDE THE STATEMENT AND MOVE FORWARD -- AND MOVE ON WITH THE REST

                    OF THE TRIAL.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  ALL RIGHT.  BUT -- BUT THE ISSUE IS,

                                         235



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THAT STATEMENT IS ONLY TO BENEFIT SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE STATUS IN

                    THIS COUNTRY, SUBJECT TO DEPORTATION, CORRECT?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  INCORRECT.  THAT STATEMENT IS TO PROTECT

                    THE CONSTITUTIONALLY-RECOGNIZED RIGHT OF SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN

                    ACCUSED BUT NOT FOUND GUILTY OF A CRIME BUT HAPPENS TO NOT HAVE

                    IMMIGRATION STATUS IN THIS COUNTRY.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  RIGHT, BUT --

                                 MS. CRUZ:  OR ACTUALLY, IF I MAY, MR. MORINELLO,

                    MAY ACTUALLY HAVE IMMIGRATION STATUS BECAUSE THEY MAY BE A

                    PERMANENT RESIDENT OR MAY BE SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT KIND OF NON-

                    PERMANENT STATUS THAT COULD FACE IMMIGRATION CONSEQUENCES IF THEY

                    TAKE THAT PLEA.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  BUT THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO A

                    LAWFUL CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY, CORRECT?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  OKAY.  SO WHAT IS THE PURPOSE

                    OF HAVING THAT ADMONISHMENT GIVEN TO A LAWFUL CITIZEN WHO HAS NO

                    POSSIBILITY OF DEPORTATION?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, THE CURRENT LAW ALREADY RECOGNIZES

                    THAT EVERYONE WHO'S TAKEN A PLEA NEEDS TO BE TOLD THAT STATEMENT.  WHAT

                    WE ARE SIMPLY DOING IS EXPANDING THAT TO ENSURE THAT IT'S NOT JUST IN

                    CASES OF FELONIES BUT IT'S ALSO IN CASE OF MISDEMEANORS.  SO THE COURT

                    HAS ALREADY RECOGNIZED THAT.  AND WE ARE SAYING HERE SPECIFIC

                    LANGUAGE, IT'S ABOUT A 30 SECOND STATEMENT, AND THEN THE PERSON CAN

                    MOVE FORWARD WITH THEIR CASE.

                                         236



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I APPRECIATE THAT ANSWER, BUT IT

                    DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION.  WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF GIVING THAT

                    ADMONISHMENT TO A U.S. CITIZEN WHO HAS NO ABILITY OR IS SUBJECT TO

                    DEPORTATION?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, I WOULD ARGUE THE PURPOSE IS TO

                    INFORM EVERY SINGLE PERSON, REGARDLESS OF IMMIGRATION STATUS, WHO

                    STEPS INTO A COURT AND IS ACCUSED OF THEIR CRIME OF WHAT THEIR RIGHTS ARE

                    UNDER THE CONSTITUTION AND THEY'RE RECOGNIZED BY THE SUPREME COURT

                    REGARDLESS OF IMMIGRATION STATUS.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  ALL RIGHT.  SO, WE RECOGNIZE

                    THAT.  BUT THE QUESTION IS, WHY DO WE HAVE TO GIVE IT TO A LAWFUL CITIZEN

                    OF THE UNITED STATES RATHER THAN JUST BE AN INQUIRE OF THE STATUS OF THE

                    DEFENDANT?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, WE'RE NOT INQUIRING AS TO THE STATUS

                    OF A PERSON, SO WE WOULDN'T KNOW IF THE PERSON -- IF THE JUDGE -- IF I AM

                    THE JUDGE AND I'M REQUIRED TO PROVIDE THAT STATEMENT, I'M NOT INQUIRING,

                    ARE YOU A CITIZEN OR ARE YOU NOT A CITIZEN IN ORDER FOR ME TO KNOW IF I

                    SHOULD GIVE THAT STATEMENT OR NOT.  WE ARE JUST REQUIRING THAT EVERY

                    DEFENDANT BEFORE THEY TAKE A PLEA SHOULD -- AND AT ARRAIGNMENT NEEDS

                    TO BE TOLD THAT STATEMENT.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  BUT CURRENTLY THEY'RE ALLOWED TO

                    INQUIRE AS TO THE STATUS.  THE QUESTION IS, WHY ARE WE ELIMINATING THE

                    ABILITY TO INQUIRE AS TO THE STATUS AND -- AND PUTTING IT ON U.S. CITIZENS,

                    ALSO.  THAT'S -- IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, I -- I THINK WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO

                                         237



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    DO HERE IS ENSURE THAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT WALKS THROUGH THE

                    COURTHOUSE IS TREATED WITH THE SAME RIGHTS REGARDLESS OF IMMIGRATION

                    STATUS OR LACK THEREOF.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  WELL, YOU'RE ENSURING THAT.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YEAH.  AND I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER

                    THINGS THAT HAPPENS IS WE DON'T ALWAYS KNOW WHO'S A CITIZEN AND WHO

                    ISN'T.  THE JUDGE MAY BE ABLE TO INQUIRE, BUT WE DON'T ALWAYS KNOW

                    WHO IS AND WHO ISN'T.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  NO, BUT CURRENTLY YOU CAN

                    INQUIRE.  SO YOU'RE CHANGING THAT ABILITY TO INQUIRE.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  ONLY IN RELATION TO THE SPECIFIC

                    STATEMENT.  WE'RE NOT SAYING AT ANY OTHER POINT DURING THE TRIAL THAT

                    MAY NOT COME UP.  WE'RE SAYING WHEN YOU ARE REQUIRED TO GIVE THE

                    STATEMENT YOU ARE AT -- YOU ARE GIVEN THE STATEMENT AND YOU'RE NOT

                    MOVING BEYOND THAT PIECE.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  IF YOU'LL BEAR WITH ME FOR ONE

                    MOMENT.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  TAKE YOUR TIME.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  WELL, I'LL MOVE ON.  IT IS -- JUST

                    SO YOU KNOW, IT IS CURRENTLY IN THE STATUTE THAT YOU CAN INQUIRE AS TO THE

                    STATUS.  NOW, THIS ALSO SAYS YOU HAVE TO GIVE THAT ADMONISHMENT IN THE

                    LANGUAGE OF THE INDIVIDUAL.  BUT YOU'RE NOT -- CAN YOU INQUIRE AS TO THE

                    LANGUAGE NECESSARY SO THAT THEY CAN GIVE THE ADMONISHMENT?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, YES.  AND -- AND -- IN -- IN PRACTICE

                                         238



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WHAT GENERALLY HAPPENS IS WHEN -- WHEN A DEFENDANT GOES TO COURT

                    THERE'S GOING TO BE AN INTERPRETER PROVIDED.  SO THAT -- THAT GOES BEYOND

                    THE SCOPE OF WHAT THIS BILL -- THIS PARTICULAR BILL DOES, BUT THAT'S

                    SOMETHING THAT ALREADY HAPPENS IN PRACTICE.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  WELL, NO, NO, NO.  THE BILL

                    SPECIFICALLY PROVIDES, YOUR BILL, THAT IT WILL BE GIVEN IN THE LANGUAGE

                    THAT THE DEFENDANT CAN SPEAK OR UNDERSTANDS.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, THE LANGUAGE THEY SPEAK DOES NOT

                    HAVE TO DO WITH THE IMMIGRATION STATUS, BUT THE LANGUAGE THEY SPEAK

                    HAS TO DO WITH THEIR ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE ADMONISHMENT.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  CORRECT.  CORRECT.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  IF I MAY FINISH THE ANSWER.  AND SO WHAT

                    HAPPENS IN PRACTICE IS THERE'S AN INTERPRETER IN COURT, AND THAT

                    INTERPRETER IS JUST GOING TO SAY WHATEVER THE JUDGE IS SAYING AND,

                    THEREFORE, MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE BILL.  WE'RE NOT ASKING THE

                    JUDGE TO GO AND LEARN A NEW LANGUAGE AND BE ABLE TO GIVE THE

                    ADMONISHMENT.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I NEVER SAID THAT.  THERE'S 62

                    COUNTIES.  NOT EVERY COUNTY HAS AN INTERPRETER IN THE COURTROOM.  SO, I

                    DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE AWARE OF, THERE IS A CENTRAL REPOSITORY THAT YOU

                    CAN CALL AND THEY WILL ATTEMPT TO DETERMINE IF THEY CAN FIND SOMEONE

                    WITH THAT LANGUAGE.  NOW, IF THERE'S A DELAY IN FINDING IT BECAUSE IT'S AN

                    OBSCURE LANGUAGE, WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT PARTICULAR DEFENDANT?  ARE YOU

                    ALLOWED TO HOLD HIM EVEN THOUGH IT MAY BE A CHARGE THAT IS

                    NON-BAILABLE?

                                         239



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YEAH.  I THINK THAT PIECE GOES A LITTLE BIT

                    BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THIS BILL, BUT I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE JUDGE CAN, IN

                    FACT, INQUIRE ABOUT THE LANGUAGE.  MOST OF THOSE SERVICES THAT YOU'RE

                    DESCRIBING HAVE -- I HAVE USED IT MYSELF AND I'VE BEEN ABLE TO FIND THE

                    KIND OF LANGUAGE THAT YOU COULDN'T EVEN PRONOUNCE OR -- OR THINK OF.

                    SO I WOULD ARGUE THAT, IF IN FACT, THE PERSON IS ABLE TO -- TO ACTUALLY GET

                    THAT STATEMENT IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I'VE BEEN -- I WAS ON THE BENCH

                    14 YEARS.  THERE WERE MANY TIMES BECAUSE I WAS IN A BORDER TOWN THAT

                    WE HAD DEFENDANTS THAT WE COULD NOT FIND THROUGH THE CENTRAL

                    REPOSITORY A READY INTERPRETER TO BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THAT PARTICULAR

                    FUNCTION, AND SOMETIMES IT WOULD TAKE A DAY OR TWO BECAUSE OF THE

                    LANGUAGES.  SO MY QUESTION IS, BECAUSE THE BILL SAYS IT MUST BE IN THAT

                    LANGUAGE, WHICH MEANS IF THE JUDGE DOESN'T SPEAK IT YOU HAVE TO HAVE

                    AN INTERPRETER, ARE YOU ALLOWED TO HOLD THAT PERSON DURING THAT PERIOD

                    OF TIME?  MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT THE ISSUE HERE IS TO PROTECT HIM FROM

                    DEPORTATION SO THAT YOU REALLY HAVE THE POTENTIAL RISK OF FLIGHT.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  SO, THERE ARE OTHER PARTS OF -- OF THE

                    PENAL LAW THAT MAKE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS ABOUT HOW LONG YOU CAN

                    HOLD SOMEONE OR IF THEY ARE OUT ON -- ON -- ON BAIL.  I'M SURE THAT'S A

                    FAVORITE WORD AROUND HERE LATELY.  AND SO THOSE WOULD BE THE

                    CONSIDERATIONS THAT ACTUALLY DETERMINE HOW LONG YOU CAN HOLD

                    SOMEONE.  YOU STILL HAVE TO, AS -- AS A JUDGE, AND -- AND AS YOU

                    MENTIONED, YOU WERE IN A BORDER TOWN SO I'M SURE YOU'RE VERY FAMILIAR

                                         240



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THAT OFTEN IMMIGRANTS, BECAUSE OF THESE SAME PRESSURES THAT OUR SYSTEM

                    HAS PUT ON THEM - LACK OF INTERPRETATION, LACK OF AVAILABLE ATTORNEY,

                    LACK OF A NUMBER OF THINGS - HAVE BEEN FORCED INTO PLEAS THAT THEY

                    PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE TAKEN THAT THEN IMPLICATE THEIR ABILITY TO STAY

                    IN THE COUNTRY.  SO WE ARE TRYING TO PASS A BILL THAT TAKES THAT INTO

                    ACCOUNT AND PROTECTS PEOPLE'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.  A COMPLETELY

                    SEPARATE PART OF OUR -- OUR STATE'S LAW HANDLES WHETHER THEY CAN STAY

                    AND -- AND HOW LONG.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON THIS

                    BILL, BUT STILL, I DO NOT FEEL THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS, WHICH WERE

                    VERY SPECIFIC, WERE SATISFIED.

                                 ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH

                    PROTECTING THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF ALL INDIVIDUALS.  I HAVE NO

                    DIFFICULTY IN PROTECTING THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND ADVISING THOSE THAT

                    COULD BE SUBJECT TO DEPORTATION FOR -- WITH -- WITH THOSE RIGHTS.  I, IN

                    FACT, HAVE HAD THAT OBLIGATION AND HAD THAT OPPORTUNITY.  CURRENTLY, IT IS

                    NOT THE JUDGE'S OBLIGATION, IT'S THE OBLIGATION OF THE ATTORNEY.  I THINK

                    THAT PART OF THE BILL IS ADMIRABLE.  BUT TO HAVE TO PUT THE BURDEN ON

                    EVERY SINGLE DEFENDANT THAT TAKES THE PLEA IN EVERY SINGLE COURT IN THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK WHERE IF THAT ADMONISHMENT IS NOT GIVEN TO

                    SOMEONE NOT EVEN SUBJECTED TO DEPORTATION IS SUBJECT TO VACATUR, WHICH

                    MEANS THAT THAT PLEA IS GONE.  AGAIN, THIS BODY IS LOOKING AT NOT THE

                    VICTIMS, BUT THE DEFENDANTS.  NOT THE VICTIMS AND NOT THE CITIZENS.

                                         241



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THEY'RE LOOKING TO PROTECT THOSE THAT ARE NOT HERE AND THAT ARE NOT

                    WATCHING OUT FOR THOSE THAT HAVE -- THAT BELONG HERE.

                                 THERE IS ALSO ONE LAST POINT.  PEOPLE ARE NOT BEING

                    RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS.  WE ARE FORGETTING

                    THAT LITTLE PREMISE THAT I GREW UP WITH AND ALMOST EVERYONE IN THIS

                    BODY GREW UP WITH.  OUR YOUNG PEOPLE THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH

                    ANYTHING AND WE CHANGE THE LAWS.  WITH THAT BEING SAID I WILL BE IN THE

                    NEGATIVE AND I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE NO ON THIS BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. LAWLER.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  I'D LIKE TO SAY NO.  GO AHEAD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ YIELDS, SIR.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  YOU KNOW YOU ENJOY THE BANTER.

                    THAT'S OKAY.  SO, I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY.  THE

                    -- AND -- AND MY COLLEAGUE JUST I THINK DID A VERY NICE JOB SUMMING

                    THIS UP, BUT THE COURT OF APPEALS RULED IN NOVEMBER OF 2013 THAT DUE

                    PROCESS COMPELS A TRIAL COURT TO APPRISE A DEFENDANT THAT IF THE

                    DEFENDANT IS NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, HE OR SHE MAY BE DEPORTED AS A

                    CONSEQUENCE OF A GUILTY PLEA TO A FELONY.  SO THIS BILL WOULD EXPAND IT

                    TO ALL GUILTY PLEAS OR VERDICTS?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  IT WOULD -- YES.  IT WOULD EXPAND IT

                    BEYOND FELONIES TO ALSO INCLUDE MISDEMEANORS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  TO INCLUDE MISDEMEANORS.  WOULD IT

                                         242



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ALSO INCLUDE VIOLATIONS?  SO, FOR A TRAFFIC VIOLATION?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO IF SOMEBODY, FOR INSTANCE,

                    GETS A TRAFFIC VIOLATION AND THEY GET THE TICKET HANDED TO THEM, WILL THE

                    TICKET NOW HAVE THIS VERBIAGE ON IT?  BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE WILL

                    PLEAD GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY, BUT THEY'LL PLEAD GUILTY POTENTIALLY ON THE

                    TICKET OR THEY WILL GO ON LINE AND PLEAD GUILTY.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  NO, IT'S ONLY UPON THE COURT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO IF SOMEBODY CHOOSES TO

                    PLEAD GUILTY BECAUSE THEY FILL OUT THE FORM, THE TICKET THAT THEY WERE

                    GIVEN, THEY SEND IT IN AND THE COURT ACCEPTS THAT AS A GUILTY PLEA, DOES

                    THE COURT HAVE ANY OBLIGATION TO TELL THEM ABOUT THIS?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  CAN YOU HOLD THAT THOUGHT FOR A SECOND?

                                 MR. LAWLER:  YES.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MS. CRUZ:  IF IT'S A PENAL LAW VIOLATION, BUT IF IT'S A

                    TRAFFIC COURT VIOLATION IT DOES NOT.  AND GENERALLY --I -- I KNOW WHICH

                    TICKETS YOU'RE SPEAKING OF, AND GENERALLY THOSE PARTICULAR TICKETS ARE

                    TRAFFIC COURT VIOLATIONS AND TRAFFIC LAW VIOLATIONS, NOT PENAL LAW

                    VIOLATIONS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO -- SO THEN TRAFFIC LAW

                    VIOLATIONS WOULD NOT FALL UNDER THIS?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  I APPRECIATE THAT

                    CLARIFICATION.  THIS APPLIES TO -- WHEN WE SAY NON-U.S. CITIZENS, THIS

                                         243



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    APPLIES TO GREEN CARD HOLDERS, THOSE HERE ON A VISA AND THOSE WHO ARE

                    UNDOCUMENTED, CORRECT?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YES.  IF YOU HAVE A DEFERRED ACTION FOR

                    CHILDHOOD ARRIVAL, IF YOU'RE AN (INAUDIBLE), ANYTHING THAT'S NOT -- THAT

                    DOESN'T GRANT YOU U.S. CITIZENSHIP, IF YOU WILL.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  WHAT ARE THE RULES -- WHAT --

                    WHAT IS THE LAW CURRENTLY WITH RESPECT TO DEPORTATION IF YOU VIOLATE THE

                    LAW?  IF YOU PLEAD GUILTY TO A FELONY OR A MISDEMEANOR, ARE YOU -- ARE

                    YOU AUTOMATICALLY, YOU KNOW, GOING TO BE DEPORTED?  WHAT -- WHAT IS

                    THE ACTUAL CURRENT FEDERAL LAW?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, YOU'RE ASKING FOR A VERY LONG

                    EXPLANATION.  BUT THE SUMMARY IS --

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WE -- WE HAVE TIME.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  OH, NO, WE DON'T.  THE -- THE GIST OF IT IS

                    THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN OFFENSES, BOTH MISDEMEANOR AS WELL AS FELONIES

                    THAT MAKE YOU REMOVABLE FROM THE COUNTRY - GENERALLY, THEY'RE CALLED

                    CRIMES OF MORAL TURPITUDE - AND THEY COULD IN TURN INTO AN IMMIGRATION

                    COURT CASE AND IMMIGRATION REMOVAL PROCEEDING, ET CETERA.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO WHAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF A

                    CRIME OF MORAL TURPITUDE?

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MS. CRUZ:  SO, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT THIS HAS TO

                    DO WITH THE BILL, SO IF YOU CAN ELABORATE?

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WELL, IF SOMEBODY IS -- IF SOMEBODY

                    COMMITS A CRIME OF MORAL TURPITUDE, LET'S SAY THEY COMMIT A RAPE.

                                         244



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WOULD THAT CONSTITUTE A CRIME OF MORAL TURPITUDE?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WELL, I'M -- I'M GOING TO REALLY BACK UP

                    A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE GOING BEYOND THE SCOPE OF WHAT THIS

                    BILL DOES.  WE ARE NOT ASKING THE JUDGE THAT WANTS -- THE PERSON HASN'T

                    BEEN FOUND GUILTY, WHICH IS WHEN IMMIGRATION PROCEEDINGS AND

                    IMMIGRATION CONSEQUENCES WOULD KICK IN, TO MAKE THE ADMONISHMENT.

                    WE'RE ASKING THEM TO DO IT BEFORE, WHEN SOMEONE, UNDER THE

                    CONSTITUTION, IS STILL DEEMED INNOCENT, TO BE ABLE TO RECEIVE THAT

                    INFORMATION SO THAT THEY HAVE ALL THE TOOLS AND INFORMATION TO

                    DETERMINE IF TO TAKE THE PLEA, IF NOT TO TAKE THE PLEA.  IF WHAT THEIR

                    ATTORNEY IS SAYING SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT OR IT DOESN'T.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  WELL, I GUESS THE -- THE QUESTION

                    BECOMES IF SOME -- IF SOMEBODY IS GUILTY OF AN OFFENSE AND THEY WOULD

                    LIKE TO PLEAD GUILTY -- I MEAN, I THINK MOST OF OUR CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS

                    ARE THE RESULT OF A GUILTY PLEA AS OPPOSED TO A TRIAL VERDICT -- MOST

                    PEOPLE DO END UP PLEADING GUILTY EITHER FOR A LESSER OFFENSE, SHORTER

                    SENTENCE, ET CETERA.  I MEAN, THERE ARE REASONS WHY PEOPLE WOULD DO IT.

                    I -- I DO -- I DO HAVE CONCERN THAT IF WE ARE USING THIS, THE -- THE THREAT

                    OF DEPORTATION, TO TRY AND PREVENT GUILTY PLEAS, POTENTIALLY, THAT IT -- IT

                    WILL OPEN UP A -- A SERIOUS SITUATION WHERE VICTIMS OF, SAY, SEXUAL

                    OFFENSES, ARE GOING TO BE PUT IN HARM'S WAY HAVING TO TESTIFY, YOU

                    KNOW, BEFORE A TRIAL, RELIVE THE ASSAULT.  AND IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE TRYING

                    TO IN SOME WAY PREVENT GUILTY PLEAS BY DOING THIS.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  AS MUCH AS I APPRECIATE YOUR EXAMPLES

                    IN THIS SITUATION, ARGUABLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS TO PROTECT

                                         245



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE CASE, BOTH THE DEFENDANT AND ARGUABLY THE --

                    THE VICTIM.  WHAT WE DON'T WANT IS SOMEONE -- BECAUSE THE

                    CONSTITUTION PROTECTS EVERYONE UNTIL IT DOESN'T EXCEPT -- YOU KNOW, I'M

                    NOT GOING TO GET INTO THAT PART BECAUSE THAT'S BEYOND HERE.  BUT WHAT

                    WE WANT IS EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN OUR STATE - AND I WISH IT WAS AN

                    ENTIRE COUNTRY - BEFORE THEY TAKE A PLEA, IF THEY HAPPEN TO HAVE

                    ANYTHING OTHER THAN A CITIZENSHIP STATUS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO

                    DETERMINE HOW THAT CITIZENSHIP OR NON-CITIZENSHIP STATUS OR THEIR ABILITY

                    TO STAY IN THE COUNTRY IS GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY WHATEVER HAPPENS IN

                    THEIR CRIMINAL CASE.  BECAUSE AT THE POINT WHEN THE ADMONISHMENT IS

                    GIVEN THEY'RE STILL PRESUMED INNOCENT.  THEY HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH TRIAL,

                    WE HAVEN'T SEEN ALL OF THE EVIDENCE.  AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN

                    PRACTICE IS ACTUALLY A TRAVESTY AND THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU'RE

                    DESCRIBING.  WE HAVE PEOPLE TAKING PLEAS FOR CRIMES THAT THEY DIDN'T

                    COMMIT BECAUSE THEY GOT ERRONEOUS ADVICE, MISUNDERSTOOD THE ADVICE,

                    AND END UP BEING REMOVED FROM THE ONLY COUNTRY THEY KNOW AS HOME

                    WHEN THEY COULD HAVE GONE THROUGH THE ENTIRE TRIAL AND POSSIBLY PROVE

                    THAT THEY WERE INNOCENT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO, IF THIS BILL TAKES EFFECT AND THE

                    COURT DOES NOT PROVIDE THIS ADMONISHMENT OR DOES NOT PROVIDE IT IN

                    FULL, THEN THE GUILTY PLEA WOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY VACATED?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THEY CAN APPLY TO HAVE IT VACATED.  IT'S

                    NOT AUTOMATIC.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  AND WHO WOULD MAKE THAT

                    DETERMINATION?

                                         246



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. CRUZ:  WHOEVER THEIR ATTORNEY IS AT THAT TIME,

                    AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO IN FRONT OF A JUDGE.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SORRY, I -- WHO WOULD THEY APPLY TO?

                    THEY APPLY TO THE TRIAL COURT JUDGE OR WOULD THEY GO TO ANOTHER JUDGE?

                    WHO WOULD -- WHO WOULD THEY BE --

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THE APPELLATE COURT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  THEY -- THEY -- OKAY, THEY WOULD

                    TAKE THE CONVICTION TO THE APPELLATE COURT.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YES.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  AND THE APPELLATE COURT

                    WOULD BE BOUND TO THROW IT OUT OR THEY CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION

                    BASED ON THE INDIVIDUAL'S CIRCUMSTANCES?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  SO, IF -- IF IT'S DETERMINED THAT IT WAS NOT

                    PROVIDED ON THE RECORD AND THE WAY THAT IT'S REQUIRED IN THE LANGUAGE

                    THAT THE PERSON SPEAKS -- AND ACTUALLY, LET ME READ TO YOU.  POTENTIAL

                    ACTUAL IMMIGRATION CONSEQUENCES FOR THE DEFENDANT WOULD RENDER THE

                    PLEA UNKNOWING TO VOLUNTARY INTELLIGENCE AND REQUIRE VACATUR WHERE

                    IT'S DETERMINED THAT IT WOULD -- THAT THE WAY THAT THEY WERE PROVIDED

                    THE ADMONISHMENT OR THEY WEREN'T PROVIDED THE ADMONISHMENT DID NOT

                    COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS WE'RE SEEING HERE TODAY.  THAT'S ONE OF

                    THE REASONS WHY WE'RE LITERALLY SPELLING OUT THE LANGUAGE THAT WE WILL

                    REQUIRE THE JUDGE TO SAY ON THE RECORD.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  AND RIGHT NOW BASED ON THAT

                    COURT OF APPEALS RULING THIS IS REQUIRED IN ALL FELONY PLEAS.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YES.

                                         247



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. LAWLER:  HAS ANY -- HAS ANY FELONY PLEA BEEN

                    THROWN OUT SINCE 2013 BASED ON THE FAILURE TO DO THIS?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO YOU'RE SIMPLY -- THIS --

                    THIS BILL IS --

                                 MS. CRUZ:  CAN YOU HOLD ON FOR A SECOND?

                                 MR. LAWLER:  YES.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  I'M SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR.  WE'RE GOOD OVER

                    THERE?  ALL RIGHT.  GO AHEAD.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  SO THIS BILL IS SIMPLY SEEKING TO

                    CODIFY THE 2013 COURT OF APPEALS RULING INTO LAW, EXPAND IT TO

                    MISDEMEANORS, AND ADD A PROVISION THAT IF THIS ADMONITION IS NOT GIVEN

                    IN THE INDIVIDUAL'S NATIVE LANGUAGE THAT IT CAN BE VACATED -- IT -- IT SHALL

                    BE VACATED BY THE COURT?

                                 MS. CRUZ:  I -- I'M GOING TO EDIT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  PLEASE.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  RIGHT NOW IT'S IN STATE LAW AS WELL AS IN

                    THE DECISION BY THE COURT SAYING THAT A DEFENDANT HAS TO BE TOLD THAT

                    STATEMENT.  BUT WE ARE NOT TELLING A JUDGE EXACTLY WHAT TO SAY, WE'RE

                    JUST SAYING IN GENERAL NATURE THEY SHOULD BE ADVISED OF X, Y AND Z.

                    AND WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THIS BILL IS SAYING THIS IS THE SPECIFIC

                    LANGUAGE THAT WE NEED TO GIVE EVERY DEFENDANT WHEN THEY'RE GOING

                    THROUGH -- THROUGH -- BEFORE THEY TAKE A PLEA AND WHEN THEY'RE GOING

                    THROUGH -- WHY IS THE WORD ESCAPING ME NOW -- AN ALLOCUTION.  SORRY, I

                    HAD A BRAIN FREEZE THERE FOR A MOMENT.  AN ALLOCUTION.  AND WE ARE

                                         248



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SAYING IF THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN, THEN AN INDIVIDUAL CAN APPLY TO HAVE

                    THEIR -- THEIR PLEA VACATED AND IT WOULD BE VACATED IF -- IF THAT STATEMENT

                    WAS FOUND TO NOT MEET THOSE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  IF IT'S NOT PART OF THE RECORD.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  YES.  IF IT'S NOT PART OF THE RECORD, IT WAS

                    NOT IN THE LANGUAGE, IF IT IS NOT THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE GIVING

                    THEM.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  AND EVEN IF THE -- JUST A HYPOTHETICAL

                    -- IF THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY DID INFORM THE CLIENT OR IF THE PROSECUTOR DID

                    INFORM THE CLIENT WHEN NEGOTIATING AND OFFERING THE -- SORRY, THE

                    DEFENDANT NEGOTIATING AND OFFERING THE PLEA DEAL AS OPPOSED TO THE

                    COURT, WOULD THAT CONSTITUTE SUFFICIENT NOTIFICATION TO AVOID VACATING OF

                    THE --

                                 MS. CRUZ:  I WOULD CHERISH THE DAY WHEN A DA

                    WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.  A DEFENDANT -- A DEFENDANT'S ATTORNEY IS

                    ALREADY REQUIRED BY -- BY THE SUPREME COURT UNDER THE CASE OF

                    (INAUDIBLE) TO DO SUCH A THING, TO ADVISE OR TO GET ADVICE FROM AN

                    IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY AND INFORM THEIR CLIENT OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF

                    TAKING A PLEA OR WHATEVER IS HAPPENING IN THEIR CASE.  WHAT WE HAVE

                    HERE IS A REQUIREMENT ON THE JUDGES.  ONE DOES NOT DO AWAY WITH THE

                    OTHER.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  SO AS -- AS -- REGARDLESS OF

                    WHAT THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY MAY DO, REGARDLESS OF, HYPOTHETICALLY, A

                    PROSECUTOR DOING, THE JUDGE MUST DO IT AND IF THEY DO NOT THE COURT --

                    THE APPELLATE DIVISION MUST VACATE THE DECISION ASSUMING IT IS FOUND

                                         249



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ON THE RECORD THAT THEY DID NOT DO IT.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  AND THAT APPLIES TO MISDEMEANORS

                    AND FELONIES, BUT NOT TO VIOLATIONS.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. LAWLER:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 2903-A.  THIS -- THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED.  THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY

                    VOTE SO IN THE CHAMBERS HERE OR BY CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, MAJORITY

                    COLLEAGUES ARE GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION.  HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME WHO DECIDE TO BE AN

                                         250



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S

                    OFFICE AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. CRUZ TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. CRUZ:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE SUPREME

                    COURT HAS ALREADY DETERMINED THAT UNDER THE CONSTITUTION IMMIGRANTS

                    HAVE THE RIGHT TO RECEIVE IMMIGRATION ADVICE FROM COUNSEL WHEN

                    THEY'RE FACING CRIMINAL CHARGES.  THIS IS BECAUSE OF A PLEA OR

                    CONVICTION EITHER FOR A MISDEMEANOR OR A FELONY CAN CARRY ADDITIONAL

                    CONSEQUENCES UNDER IMMIGRATION LAW WHICH CAN LEAD TO MANDATORY

                    DETENTION OR EVEN DEPORTATION.  IN NEW YORK CURRENTLY THE LAW REQUIRES

                    THAT ALL JUDGES NOTIFY PEOPLE OF THE RISK OF TAKING A PLEA, BUT ONLY IN

                    FELONY CASES IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT THEY'RE MAKING AN INFORMED

                    DECISION.  THE NEW YORK COURT OF APPEALS FOUND THAT JUDICIAL

                    NOTIFICATION IS LEGALLY REQUIRED UNDER THE STATE CONSTITUTION IN FELONY

                    CASES, AND IT'S ALSO MEMORIALIZED IN NEW YORK STATE LAW.  HOWEVER,

                    OUR CURRENT LAW DOES NOT APPLY TO MISDEMEANORS, AND IMPORTANTLY, THE

                    LANGUAGE OR THE FORM USED FOR NOTIFICATION IS NOT STANDARDIZED IN OUR

                    STATUTE.  SO JUDGES PROVIDE NOTIFICATION THAT CAN BE MORE HARMFUL THAN

                    HELPFUL AND CAN CONFLICT WITH THE DEFENSE COUNSEL'S DUTY TO PROVIDE

                    ACCURATE LEGAL DEFENSE.  OUR BILL TODAY, WHICH FOLLOWS ACTUALLY

                    (INAUDIBLE) 15 OTHER STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY WILL PROVIDE UNIFORM

                    (INAUDIBLE) CONSISTENT SCRIPT FOR JUDGES TO USE DURING THIS PROCESS AND

                                         251



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WILL FURTHER FACILITATE MEANINGFUL CONSTITUTIONAL CONSULTATION BETWEEN

                    CLIENTS AND THEIR ATTORNEY.  I HAVE SEVERAL CONSTITUENTS WHO HAVE TAKEN

                    PLEAS FOR CRIMES WITH -- THAT WITH PROPER NOTIFICATION COULD HAVE

                    RESULTED IN A DIFFERENT OUTCOME, AND YEARS LATER THEY'RE FACING

                    IMMIGRATION CONSEQUENCES BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT AWARE OF THEIR

                    RIGHTS.  THIS BILL IS AN IMPORTANT STEP TO CHANGE THIS FOR SO MANY OTHERS.

                                 I WANT TO THANK THE ADVOCATES AND THE SPEAKER FOR

                    ALWAYS PRIORITIZING THE RIGHTS OF IMMIGRANT NEW YORKERS.  I'LL BE

                    VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I URGE OTHERS TO DO THE SAME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. CRUZ IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 369, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09895, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 369, THIELE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO THE PROHIBITION OF HUNTING WILD DEER ON STATE LANDS

                    ADJACENT TO A LICENSED WILDLIFE REHABILITATION FACILITY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. THIELE.

                                 MR. THIELE:  WELL, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  IT IS

                    LOCAL BILL SEASON, AND OF ALL THE LOCAL BILLS THIS MAY BE THE MOST LOCAL OF

                    ALL.  IT APPLIES TO ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY, ONE PIECE OF STATE PROPERTY IN

                    -- IN MY ASSEMBLY DISTRICT.  TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ABOUT

                                         252



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HOW THIS BILL CAME ABOUT, I HAVE A -- A SUFFOLK COUNTY PARK IN -- IN MY

                    DISTRICT.  IT'S CALLED MUNN'S -- MUNN'S POND COUNTY PARK, AND IT'S ON THE

                    EDGE OF THE PINE BARRENS AND HAMPTON BAYS.  AND ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO

                    THE COUNTY OF SUFFOLK GAVE A PERMIT TO WHAT IS NOW CALLED THE EVELYN

                    ALEXANDER WILDLIFE REHABILITATION CENTER.  AND THAT REHABILITATION

                    CENTER HAS BEEN THERE, THEY'RE LICENSED BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.  THEY'VE BEEN DOING THEIR WORK THERE FOR

                    THE BETTER PART OF 25 YEARS.  SUBSEQUENT TO THAT THERE'S -- THERE'S A PIECE

                    OF STATE PROPERTY THAT IS ADJACENT TO THIS PROPERTY.  AND AFTER THE

                    WILDLIFE REHABILITATION CENTER HAD BEEN ESTABLISHED, THE -- THE STATE

                    DECIDED THROUGH THE DEC TO ALLOW HUNTING ON THAT ADJACENT PROPERTY.

                    BUT THERE'S NO DIRECT ACCESS TO THE PROPERTY, SO THE -- THE PARKING,

                    THERE'S THREE PARKING SPACES FOR HUNTING.  IT'S A RATHER MODEST FACILITY,

                    AND THEY -- THEY NEED ACCESS TO GO ACROSS THE COUNTY PROPERTY TO BE

                    ABLE TO GET TO THE STATE PROPERTY.  NOW, THERE HAVE BEEN -- BECAUSE OF

                    -- OF THIS CONFIGURATION AND THE SITUATION THERE -- THERE HAVE BEEN A

                    NUMBER OF ISSUES WITH HUNTING IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA.  THE -- THE

                    DIRECTORS OF THE WILDLIFE REHABILITATION CENTER MAKE COMPLAINTS

                    PERIODICALLY THROUGH THE YEARS ABOUT (INAUDIBLE), ET CETERA.  YOU KNOW,

                    SEEING HUNTERS IN THE BUFFER AREA WHERE THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ON

                    ANY.  REPORTING TO THE DEC, NOT A LOT WAS DONE.  BUT WHAT HAPPENED IN

                    JANUARY OF THIS YEAR KIND OF CROSSED THE LINE, AND THAT IS THAT A HUNTER

                    WAS ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY, SHOT A DEER ON THE PROPERTY OF THE

                    REHABILITATION CENTER AND APPARENTLY WASN'T THAT GREAT A SHOT BECAUSE

                    IN ADDITION TO FINALLY SHOOTING A DEER, A COUPLE OF STRAY BULLETS BLEW

                                         253



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    RIGHT THROUGH THE -- THE -- THE REHABILITATION CENTER, MISSING WORKERS

                    AT THE REHABILITATION CENTER BY A COUPLE OF FEET.  SO THIS WAS A BIG

                    ISSUE IN MY DISTRICT.  THE COUNTY LEGISLATOR WHO I WORK WITH WHO

                    SHARES THE AREA BECAUSE IT WAS COUNTY LAND AND STATE LAND, WE WORKED

                    TOGETHER -- IN ESSENCE, WE WERE AT THE TIME TRYING TO SEEK AND GET THE

                    ESTABLISHMENT OF A GREATER BUFFER TO GET AWAY FROM THE WILDLIFE

                    REHABILITATION CENTER.  AND WE DID GET A MEETING, WE DID TRY TO WORK

                    WITH THE DEC.  THEIR RESPONSE BASICALLY WAS SIMPLY TO JUST PUT UP

                    MORE SIGNAGE.  AND THAT REALLY WAS THE GENESIS OF THIS BILL.  YOU KNOW,

                    WE REALLY WEREN'T ABLE TO GET THE ATTENTION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.  SO, THIS BILL IN ESSENCE WOULD IN THIS

                    ONE LOCATION BECAUSE OF THIS PARTICULAR CONFIGURATION OF THE PROPERTY

                    AND THE ADJACENT LAND USE WHICH WAS THERE BEFORE WOULD -- WOULD

                    PROHIBIT HUNTING ON THIS ONE PARCEL ADJACENT TO THE WILDLIFE

                    REHABILITATION CENTER.  AND THAT'S WHAT THE -- THE BILL DOES.  WE DREW IT

                    VERY TIGHTLY.  IT ONLY APPLIES TO PROPERTIES THAT ARE IN THE TOWN OF

                    SOUTHHAMPTON AND THE COUNTY OF SUFFOLK WHERE THERE IS A

                    REHABILITATION CENTER ON A COUNTY PARCEL AND THERE'S A STATE PROPERTY

                    NEXT DOOR.  SO, YOU KNOW, WE CERTAINLY WEREN'T TRYING TO IMPACT

                    HUNTING IN ANY -- ANY WAY.  IN FACT, YOU KNOW, I'VE SPONSORED MEASURES

                    HERE THAT HAVE OPENED UP THOUSANDS OF ACRES OF AREAS OF HUNTING IN MY

                    DISTRICT ON THE EAST END.  BUT THIS IS MORE OF A PUBLIC SAFETY MATTER, AND

                    THAT'S WHY WE PUT IN THE BILL IN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. SMULLEN.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                                         254



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  I REALLY APPRECIATE THE -- THE

                    SPONSOR'S VERY CLEAR AND THOUGHTFUL EXPLANATION OF THE NATURE AND --

                    AND GENESIS OF THIS BILL AND THE SAFETY CONCERNS THAT ARE -- THAT ARE

                    EXPRESSED AMONGST THE LOCAL CITIZENRY.  HOWEVER, THIS SEEMS TO BE A

                    SPECIAL CASE BILL THAT HAS SOME WORRISOME IMPLICATIONS.  ONE OF THE

                    THINGS THAT'S IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW IS A 500 FOOT

                    PROHIBITION.  AND IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THERE HAVE BEEN LOTS OF SIGNS

                    POSTED BUT THEY'VE BEEN REPEATEDLY VIOLATED.  NOW WHEN I -- WHEN I

                    LOOK AT A SITUATION LIKE THIS, IT'S EVIDENT TO ME -- CAN I GET SOME QUIET IN

                    THE CHAMBER, PLEASE, MR. SPEAKER?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  GENTLEMEN, A

                    COLLEAGUE IS TALKING.  HE DOESN'T NEED TO COMPETE WITH YOU.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AND --

                    AND -- WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS SITUATION, IT SEEMED TO ME THAT THE -- THIS

                    WAS A SPECIAL CASE, AND LIKE -- AS I SAID, I -- I UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF

                    IT.  BUT WITH THE -- THE 500 FOOT PROHIBITION THAT'S ALREADY IN THE

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IT SEEMED TO ME NOW HEARING THE

                    SPONSOR'S EXPLANATION THAT THERE'S ACTUALLY A CRIME WAS COMMITTED

                    HERE, THAT THERE IS AN ENDANGERING THING, YOU KNOW, I WONDER IF WE'RE --

                    WE'RE HEADED DOWN THE WRONG TRACK WITH WHAT I CALL MICRO LEGISLATION.

                    AND -- AND WHAT THAT IS IS WHEN THERE'S -- THERE'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS

                                         255



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO BE FIXED BUT A DEPARTMENT DOESN'T NECESSARILY REACT THE WAY THEY

                    SHOULD, IN THIS CASE THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.

                    AND IF -- IF IT WERE -- TO ME, I WOULD -- I WOULD ASK THE DEPARTMENT

                    MUCH MORE STRONGLY THAT THEY WOULD INTERVENE IN THIS CASE AND -- AND

                    PROVIDE NOT ONLY SIGNAGE BUT ENFORCEMENT TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT

                    PEOPLE WERE NOT PUT IN DANGER IN THEIR PLACE OF WORK OR THAT THE -- THE

                    WILDLIFE REHABILITATION CENTER WAS WELL OUTSIDE THE BUFFER AND THAT IT

                    WAS -- IT WAS NOT ONLY CLEARLY MARKED BUT -- BUT ALSO ADHERED TO.

                    BECAUSE WHAT THIS IS GOING TO DO, IT'S GOING TO PROVIDE A VERY

                    DANGEROUS PRECEDENT WHEN IT COMES TO HUNTERS' RIGHTS TO RECREATE ON

                    STATE LANDS.  THE LAND THAT -- THAT'S OUT THERE THAT'S -- THAT'S OWNED BY

                    THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, WHEN IT'S THERE FOR THE EXPRESS

                    PURPOSE IN THIS CASE OF HUNTING, THAT HAS A VERY HIGH PRIORITY IN TERMS

                    OF HOW WE SHOULD VIEW THE USAGE OF THAT LAND AND WHETHER OR NOT IT'S

                    UP TO THE DEPARTMENT TO PROPERLY REGULATE IT.

                                 FOR THAT REASON AND -- AND UNDERSTANDING ALL THE SAFETY

                    CONCERNS, YOU KNOW, I -- I CAN'T VOTE FOR THIS LEGISLATION ALTHOUGH I

                    COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF THE -- OF THE IDEA BEHIND IT AND

                    WHAT WE SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T DO.  BUT BECAUSE OF HOW THINGS ARE GOING

                    IN THIS CHAMBER AND HOW THIS BODY OFTEN LOOKS AT LEGISLATION THAT

                    AFFECTS HUNTERS, THAT AFFECTS THE -- THE ABILITY OF PEOPLE TO USE GUNS THAT

                    ARE PROTECTED UNDER THE SECOND AMENDMENT, I URGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES

                    TO VERY CAREFULLY CONSIDER THIS AND VOTE NO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE

                    WHAT'S -- WHAT'S GOOD -- THE MOST GOOD FOR THE MOST PEOPLE HERE.  THERE

                    ARE 800,000 HUNTERS IN -- IN NEW YORK STATE THAT DON'T NEED TO BE

                                         256



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PROHIBITED FROM HUNTING IN A MICRO AREA WHEN THAT WOULD SET A

                    DANGEROUS PRECEDENT FOR OTHER LEGISLATORS AROUND THE STATE WHO DON'T

                    LIKE HUNTING, WHO WANT TO GO AHEAD AND THEN FOIST WHAT IS REALLY

                    CONTRARY TO NEW YORK STATE'S LAWS ON -- ON THE PEOPLE THROUGH THIS

                    TYPE OF LEGISLATION.

                                 SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.  I URGE ALL OF

                    MY COLLEAGUES THAT ARE SO INCLINED TO VOTE NO ON THIS BILL TO SEND A

                    STRONG MESSAGE TO THE GOVERNOR AND TO THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION TO DO THEIR JOB.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9895.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

                    IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED BY

                    MY COLLEAGUE, ALTHOUGH WE ARE SYMPATHETIC TO THIS UNIQUE SITUATION.

                    THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE YES SHOULD DO ON THE FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING

                    THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  MR. SPEAKER, THE MAJORITY

                                         257



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  IF

                    THERE ARE ANY MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE THEY CAN

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. GIGLIO.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  WHILE I RESPECT MY COLLEAGUE AND HIS POSITION ON THIS MATTER

                    AND I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE WILDLIFE FACILITY THAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT

                    AND THEY DO DO GREAT THINGS.  HOWEVER, WE HAVE A VERY SEVERE DEER

                    PROBLEM ON THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH FORK OF LONG ISLAND.  THE DEER

                    MANAGEMENT PERMIT PLAN BY THE NEW YORK STATE DEC FOR THE

                    2020-2030, WHAT THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE NOT EVEN BEING

                    CONSIDERED.  WE ARE BEING -- HAVING OUR CONSTITUENTS HOSPITALIZED WITH

                    TICKBORNE ILLNESSES.  WE ARE REALLY IN A BAD STATE.  CAR ACCIDENTS EVERY

                    DAY FROM DEER RUNNING OUT INTO THE ROAD, FARMERS PUTTING UP DEER

                    FENCES.  I COME FROM A VERY LARGE AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT AND I JUST FEEL

                    THAT THIS IS SETTING A BAD PRECEDENT.  THERE'S VERY FEW PROPERTIES TO HUNT

                    AND THERE ARE MANY DEER.  SO AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED THAT HUNTER, HIS

                    LICENSE SHOULD'VE BEEN TAKEN AWAY IF HE WAS TOO CLOSE WHERE HIS

                    BULLETS WERE COMING CLOSE TO ACTUAL -- TO PEOPLE.  SO -- AND THE

                    MARKERS SHOULD BE OUT THAT IT'S PRIVATE PROPERTY AND THAT THEY NEED TO

                    STAY AWAY FROM THERE.  BUT THE DEER PROBLEM, AND I'M SURE HE COULD

                                         258



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AGREE, IS RAMPANT.  AND WE ARE WORKING TOGETHER -- THE LEGISLATOR ON

                    THE NORTH FORK OF LONG ISLAND HAS BEEN WORKING CLOSELY WITH ME AND I

                    DO HAVE A BILL FILED TO ALLOW FOR LENIENCY ON HUNTING BECAUSE THE DEER

                    PROBLEM IS SO BAD.

                                 SO, WHERE I RESPECT MY COLLEAGUE AND I UNDERSTAND

                    WHY HE'S DOING THIS BECAUSE HE REPRESENTS HIS CONSTITUENTS WELL, I WILL

                    DEFINITELY BE A NO ON THIS BILL.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. GIGLIO IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MY

                    COLLEAGUES MR. DURSO AND MR. GANDOLFO IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  ARE THERE ANY

                    OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 389, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S09184, RULES REPORT NO.

                    389, SENATOR SEPULVEDA (A10215, COMMITTEE ON RULES, BRAUNSTEIN,

                    COLTON).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE LOCAL FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    SALE OF BONDS AND NOTES OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, THE ISSUANCE OF

                    BONDS OR NOTES WITH VARIABLE RATES OF INTEREST, INTEREST RATE EXCHANGE

                    AGREEMENTS OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, THE SELLING OF BONDS AT PRIVATE

                                         259



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SALE, THE REFUNDING OF BONDS, AND THE DOWN PAYMENT FOR PROJECTS

                    FINANCED BY BONDS; TO AMEND THE NEW YORK STATE FINANCIAL

                    EMERGENCY ACT FOR THE CITY OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO A PLEDGE AND

                    AGREEMENT OF THE STATE; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 142 OF THE LAWS OF

                    2004, AMENDING THE LOCAL FINANCE LAW RELATING TO INTEREST RATE

                    EXCHANGE AGREEMENTS OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK AND REFUNDING BONDS OF

                    SUCH CITY, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON SENATE BILL 9184.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE -- OH.  I APOLOGIZE.

                    THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN

                    EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK -- THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  THE CLERK WILL

                    NOW RECORD THE VOTE ON SENATE BILL 9184.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE STILL.

                    ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE

                                         260



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CONFERENCE POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY

                    LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR

                    GIVING ME A SECOND OPPORTUNITY TO ANNOUNCE THAT THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE REASONS I

                    WILL EXPLAIN IN A MOMENT.  AFTER THE EXPLANATION I HOPE MY COLLEAGUES

                    WAIT AT LEAST THAT LONG. THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE YES, CAN DO SO CERTAINLY

                    HERE ON THE FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  MS. HYNDMAN.

                                 MS. HYNDMAN:  MADAM SPEAKER, THE MAJORITY

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                    SHOULD ANY MEMBERS WANT TO WISH TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE PLEASE

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AT THE NUMBER PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  MR. GOODELL TO

                    EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THIS

                    BILL ALLOWS THE CITY OF NEW YORK TO SELL ITS BONDS, ITS DEBT, AT A PRIVATE

                    SALE RATHER THAN THROUGH A COMPETITIVE BID PROCESS THAT APPLIES TO

                    ALMOST ALL OF THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK.  SO IF YOU LIVE IN SUFFOLK COUNTY OR NASSAU COUNTY OR

                    WESTCHESTER OR ALMOST ANY OF THE OTHER COUNTIES WITH THE EXCEPTION OF

                    ERIE, THOSE BONDS ARE PUT OUT FOR A COMPETITIVE BID.  AND ARE THREE

                                         261



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    IMPORTANT REASONS WHY WE USE COMPETITIVE BIDDING:  FIRST, COMPETITIVE

                    BIDDING HAS BEEN PROVEN OVER HISTORY TO GIVE YOU THE BEST PRICE.  OR IN

                    THE CASE OF A BOND THE LOWEST INTEREST RATE.  SECOND, COMPETITIVE

                    BIDDING ENSURES THAT EVERYONE HAS A FAIR AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO BID

                    ON IT.  THERE AREN'T THE INSIDERS OR THE OUTSIDERS, THERE AREN'T THE

                    WINNERS OR THE LOSERS.  OPEN COMPETITIVE BIDDING GIVES EVERYONE A FAIR

                    OPPORTUNITY.  AND THIRD, COMPETITIVE BIDDING HELPS AVOID COLLUSION AND

                    FAVORITISM AND CORRUPTION, WHEREAS IF YOU'RE NEGOTIATING DIRECTLY WITH A

                    PERSON ON A MULTIMILLION OR BILLION-DOLLAR BOND TRANSACTION, THERE ARE A

                    DOZEN WAYS TO SUNDAY WHERE THAT PERSON CAN REWARD YOU FOR YOUR

                    PRIVATE NEGOTIATIONS, WHETHER IT'S CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS OR SUPPORT IN

                    ANY NUMBER OF OTHER WAYS.  SO THE REASON WHY EVERY -- ALMOST EVERY

                    OTHER MUNICIPALITY COMPETITIVELY BIDS ITS BONDS IS TO GET THE BEST PRICE

                    FOR THE TAXPAYERS, TO BE FAIR FOR EVERYONE AND TO AVOID THE POTENTIAL OF

                    FRAUD, COLLUSION OR CORRUPTION.

                                 NOW, THE CITY OF NEW YORK RECEIVES SPECIAL

                    AUTHORIZATION TO SELL THEIR BONDS AT A PRIVATE SALE.  IN 1978 THERE WAS A

                    TEMPORARY AUTHORIZATION, TEMPORARY, 44 YEARS AGO IN 1978 BECAUSE THE

                    CITY OF NEW YORK WAS ON THE EDGE OF BANKRUPTCY.  DO YOU REMEMBER

                    THAT?  AND THEY COULDN'T SELL THEM.  AND EVERY YEAR SINCE THEN FOR 44

                    YEARS WE'VE ALLOWED THEM TO CONTINUE.  NEW YORK CITY IS NO LONGER IN

                    BANKRUPTCY, THERE'S NO LONGER ANY JUSTIFICATION AND, THEREFORE, WE

                    SHOULD NOT EXTEND THIS TO AN EXTENSION OF 46 YEARS.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  THANK YOU.

                                         262



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 390, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S08902, RULES REPORT NO.

                    390, SENATOR BRESLIN (A10227, COMMITTEE ON RULES, CAHILL).  AN ACT

                    TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS RELATING TO MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURERS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  AN EXPLANATION

                    IS REQUESTED.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  YES, THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    THIS BILL WOULD MERELY EXTEND THE PROVISIONS OF THE INSURANCE LAW

                    INTO 2025 TO EXEMPT MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURERS FROM CERTAIN RISK-

                    BASED CAPITAL REQUIREMENTS.  I THINK THAT WAS A LITTLE SHORTER THAN MR.

                    THIELE'S EXPLANATION OF THE BILL TWO -- ABOUT TWO AGO.  THAT'S IT.  THAT'S

                    THE WHOLE EXPLANATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  MR.

                    BLANKENBUSH.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  MADAM SPEAKER, IF I MAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  YOU KNOW, MADAM

                    SPEAKER, SOMETIMES WE GO JUST LIKE CLOCKWORK AND SOMETIMES WE

                    THROW A FEW CURVE BALLS.  THANK YOU FOR RECOGNIZING ME.  WOULD THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  NO.  YES, OF COURSE.

                                         263



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I'M HAPPY EITHER WAY.

                                 MR. CAHILL:  I'M SO HAPPY, MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  MR. CAHILL, THIS IS REALLY DESIGNED

                    TO HELP PHYSICIANS DEAL WITH SOME OF THEIR MALPRACTICE INSURANCE; IS

                    THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  YES, THAT'S INDEED CORRECT.  THESE ARE

                    TWO MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT SEVERAL YEARS AGO

                    WERE REGISTERING IN VERY SIGNIFICANT CAPITAL DEFICITS.  THEY WERE

                    BASICALLY PUT INTO REHABILITATION AND OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS HAVE

                    BEEN ABLE TO GO FROM A DEFICIT SITUATION TO A MINOR SURPLUS.  BUT THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES BELIEVES WITH ANOTHER THREE YEARS TO

                    GO, THESE TWO COMPANIES CAN BE FULLY REHABILITATED AND BE VITAL PARTS OF

                    THE MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURANCE PRODUCT THAT'S AVAILABLE IN THE STATE

                    OF NEW YORK.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  BUT IN -- IN THE PROCESS IT ALSO

                    ADJUSTS THE CAPITAL REQUIREMENTS FOR AN INSURANCE COMPANY, CORRECT?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  IT ADJUSTS THE CAPITAL REQUIREMENTS FOR

                    THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TEMPORARILY, YES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND WHAT IT DOES IS IT ELIMINATE --

                    OR REDUCES, SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCES THE NORMAL CAPITAL REQUIREMENTS THAT

                    AN INSURANCE COMPANY WOULD HAVE FOR THIS TYPE OF COVERAGE?

                                 MR. CAHILL:  YES, IT TEMPORARILY REDUCES THE

                    CAPITAL REQUIREMENTS THAT THESE COMPANIES WOULD BE REQUIRED TO

                    MAINTAIN.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND WHAT IS THAT REDUCTION?

                                         264



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. CAHILL:  WELL, IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S PREVENTING THEM

                    FROM HAVING TO MEET THE MINIMUMS, WHICH I BELIEVE IS A DETERMINATION

                    THAT IS MADE BY THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

                                 ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THOSE WHO

                    ARE ENGAGED IN DELIVERING BABIES FACE EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH LIABILITY

                    COSTS BECAUSE A SMALL ERROR CAN HAVE LIFETIME CONSEQUENCES.  AND SO IN

                    AN EFFORT TO HELP THEM WE IMPLEMENTED THIS PROGRAM TO PROVIDE

                    ASSISTANCE, IF YOU WILL, FOR THAT PARTICULAR CATEGORY OF INSUREDS.  SEVERAL

                    OF MY COLLEAGUES, THOUGH, HAVE CONSIDERABLE CONCERNS ON THIS BECAUSE

                    IT, AS THE SPONSOR NOTED, SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCES THE CAPITAL RESERVE

                    REQUIREMENTS AND THAT DRAMATICALLY INCREASES THE RISK THAT AN INSURANCE

                    COMPANY WON'T HAVE ENOUGH CASH TO ACTUALLY MAKE THE PAYMENTS THAT

                    WOULD BE REQUIRED.  AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THOSE CAPITAL RESERVES.

                    AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE NEW YORK STATE INSURANCE ASSOCIATION

                    WROTE, THE MEASURE REPRESENTS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS PUBLIC POLICY

                    BECAUSE IT WOULD EVISCERATE THE CURRENT STRONG STATUTORY ACCOUNTING

                    RULES FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT REQUIRE ADEQUATE RESERVES AND

                    SURPLUS BASED ON ACTUAL FINANCIAL ASSETS AND INSTEAD WOULD REPLACE IT

                    WITH A CASH ACCOUNTING METHODOLOGY.  AND SO WHILE WE ARE VERY

                    SYMPATHETIC FOR THE OBJECTIVES OF THIS WILL -- OF THIS BILL, WE ARE VERY

                    CONCERNED ABOUT THE REDUCTION IN CAPITAL REQUIREMENTS AND THE DANGER

                                         265



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    IT POSES FOR THIS TYPE OF INSURANCE POLICY WHICH COULD VERY HAVE VERY

                    SERIOUS RAMIFICATIONS IF THE CASH ACCOUNTING METHOD PROVES TO BE

                    INADEQUATE.  AND FOR THAT REASON, THE LAST TIME THIS CAME UP FOR A VOTE

                    THERE WERE 38 NO VOTES.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION.

                    AND SO ACTUALLY CALL FOR THE VOTE.  THOSE WHO ARE IN THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE THAT WANT TO VOTE FOR IT CAN CERTAINLY DO HERE IN THE

                    CHAMBER OR BY CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  WE'RE ALL EAGER.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON SENATE BILL 8902.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, THE

                    MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO GENERALLY BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION.  HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES WHO

                    WOULD CHOOSE NOT TO DO SO.  THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE

                                         266



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE SO THAT THEIR VOTE MAY BE PROPERLY RECORDED.

                                 THANK YOU, MA'AM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BLANKENBUSH TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BLANKENBUSH:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  AS MY COLLEAGUE HAS -- HAS JUST SPOKEN, THE -- THIS MEASURE I

                    THINK IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS FOR PUBLIC POLICY.  RIGHT NOW, THE

                    INSURANCE COMPANIES CURRENTLY HAVE STRONG STATUTORY ACCOUNTING RULES

                    FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT REQUIRE ADEQUATE RESERVES AND SURPLUSES

                    BASED ON ACTUAL FINANCIAL ASSETS AND REPLACE IT WITH CASH ACCOUNTING IS

                    A SCHEME FOR MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURERS.  THEY CAN COUNT POTENTIAL

                    BUT NOT ACTUALLY EXISTING SURCHARGES AND ASSESSMENTS AS ADMITTED ASSETS

                    OF THE MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURER.

                                 FOR THOSE REASONS, I WILL BE -- I WILL BE VOTING NO AND

                    HOPE MY COLLEAGUES WOULD FOLLOW SUIT.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  MR.

                    BLANKENBUSH IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER,

                    COLLEAGUES, WE ARE ACTUALLY DOING PRETTY WELL.  WE COULD GO A LITTLE

                    FASTER, BUT WE'RE DOING GOOD.  WE'RE DOING GOOD.  SO LET'S JUST KEEP

                                         267



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    GOING HERE.  MR. ANDERSON HAS NOT MADE IT BACK TO THE BUILDING YET, SO

                    WE ARE GOING TO GO TO RULES REPORT NO. 472, RULES REPORT NO. 473,

                    RULES REPORT NO. 477 AND RULES REPORT NO. 478.  THESE ARE NOT

                    DEBATABLE -- THEY'RE -- WELL, THEY COULD BE DEBATABLE BUT I DON'T THINK

                    THEY WILL BE, SIR -- MA'AM.  THANK YOU.  THEN WE'RE GOING TO RULES

                    REPORT NO. 405 BY MR. GOTTFRIED, FOLLOWED BY RULES REPORT --

                    ACTUALLY, CALENDAR -- WAS IT RULES?  YES, IT IS RULES REPORT -- IT'S 514,

                    IT'S BY MS. FAHY.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  PAGE 16, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 472, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S08129, RULES REPORT NO.

                    472, SENATOR KENNEDY (A09365, PEOPLES-STOKES).  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE LOCAL FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE SALE OF MUNICIPAL OBLIGATIONS

                    BY THE COUNTY OF ERIE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.  OH, HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE SENATE BILL 8129.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

                    IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                         268



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS FOR THE

                    REASONS I WILL EXPLAIN SHORTLY.  THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT

                    CAN CERTAINLY DO SO HERE ON THE FLOOR OR BY CALLING THE MINORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  MRS. PEOPLES-

                    STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS STILL GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF LOCAL

                    PEOPLE MAKING LOCAL DECISIONS.  HOWEVER, SHOULD SOME COLLEAGUES

                    DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION THEY ARE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY

                    RECORDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  AS

                    WITH THE BILL THAT WE TALKED ABOUT A MOMENT AGO DEALING WITH THE CITY

                    OF NEW YORK, THIS BILL WOULD AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY OF ERIE TO SELL ITS

                    DEBT OR ITS BONDS IN A PRIVATE SALE.  AND I WOULD NOTE THAT ALL THE OTHER

                    COUNTIES OUTSIDE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK INCLUDING SUFFOLK AND

                    NASSAU SELL THEIR BONDS AT PUBLIC AUCTION.  AND THEY DO THAT TO GET THE

                    BEST PRICE FOR THE TAXPAYERS, TO AVOID FAVORITISM AND GIVE EVERYONE A

                    FAIR AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO BID, AND TO AVOID THE POTENTIAL FOR ANY

                    CORRUPTION OR ABUSE.  AND WE INITIALLY AUTHORIZED THIS FOR THE COUNTY OF

                                         269



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ERIE AT A TIME WHEN THEY WERE FACING VERY SEVERE FINANCIAL STRESS.

                    THANKFULLY, THROUGH THE LEADERSHIP OF THAT COUNTY THEY'VE MADE

                    DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENTS IN THEIR FINANCIAL STRENGTH, AND FOR THAT REASON

                    I THINK WE SHOULD REVERT BACK TO THE SAME PROCESS USED BY ALL THE OTHER

                    COUNTIES IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE IN NEW

                    YORK CITY AND HAVE AN OPEN COMPETITIVE BID THAT'S FAIR, OPEN,

                    TRANSPARENT, FOCUSED ON GETTING THE BEST PRICE FOR EVERYONE IN THE CITY

                    OF -- OR THE COUNTY OF ERIE.

                                 FOR THAT REASON, I'LL OPPOSE IT AND RECOMMEND AGAINST

                    IT TO MY COLLEAGUES.  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD:  MR. GOODELL IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 16, RULES REPORT NO. 473, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S08253, RULES REPORT NO.

                    473, SENATOR KENNEDY (A09367, PEOPLES-STOKES).  AN ACT TO AMEND

                    THE LOCAL FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO FACILITATING THE MARKETING OF ANY

                    ISSUE OF SERIAL BONDS OR NOTES OF THE CITY OF BUFFALO ISSUED ON OR BEFORE

                    A CERTAIN DATE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         270



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8253.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO

                    WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE

                    REASON THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED IN THE LAST TWO BILLS.  AGAIN, IT'S A PRIVATE

                    SALE OF BONDS USING A -- A BUYER THAT'S BEEN HAND-SELECTED RATHER THAN

                    THROUGH AN OPEN COMPETITIVE BID PROCESS.  AND FOR THAT REASON THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY OPPOSE THIS AND INSTEAD

                    RECOMMEND AN OPEN COMPETITIVE BID AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY, DESIGNED

                    TO GET THE LOWEST PRICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

                    THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME WHO WOULD

                    CHOOSE NOT TO.  THEY CAN FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S

                    OFFICE, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO RECORD YOUR VOTE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                         271



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 17, RULES REPORT NO. 477, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S08497, RULES REPORT NO.

                    477, SENATOR KAMINSKY (A09465, LAVINE).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

                    PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO BASE PROPORTIONS IN ASSESSING UNITS IN

                    NASSAU COUNTY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8497.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO

                    WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION.  THERE WILL BE

                    MEMBERS THAT WILL BE SUPPORTING IT, FOR SURE.  SO THOSE MEMBERS WHO

                    ARE SUPPORTING IT, MAKE SURE YOU VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR OR CONTACT THE

                    MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  MAJORITY COLLEAGUES ARE -- WILL GENERALLY BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS

                                         272



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ONE.  HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD CHOOSE NOT TO.  THEY

                    SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  WE'LL MAKE

                    SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MA'AM.

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE COUNTY OF

                    SUFFOLK HAS A TAX -- TAXING SYSTEM, REAL PROPERTY TAX SYSTEM THAT'S A

                    LITTLE BIT UNIQUE IN THAT THEY PUT PROPERTIES IN DIFFERENT CLASSIFICATIONS.

                    SO YOU CAN HAVE A RESIDENTIAL CLASSIFICATION OR A COMMERCIAL

                    CLASSIFICATION OR OTHER CLASSIFICATIONS.  AND WHAT THIS BILL DOES, IT SAYS

                    BASICALLY THE RESIDENTIAL BASE WILL NOT INCREASE BY MORE THAN ONE

                    PERCENT IN THE -- OVER THE PRIOR YEAR.  NOW, NOT SURPRISINGLY THIS IS A

                    VERY, VERY POPULAR PROVISION FOR RESIDENTS WHO DON'T WANT TO PAY MORE

                    IN PROPERTY TAXES.  AND WHO DOES, RIGHT?  AND IT'S EQUALLY VERY

                    UNPOPULAR WITH EVERYONE ELSE WHO HAS TO PAY A LOT MORE BECAUSE THEY

                    PICK UP THE DIFFERENCE.  SO MANY OF US UPSTATE WHO ARE NOT LIVING IN

                    THE COUNTY OF SUFFOLK THINK A FAIR AND EQUITABLE APPROACH IS TO TAX

                    EVERYONE BASED ON FAIR MARKET VALUE.  BUT I CERTAINLY RECOGNIZE THAT

                    MY COLLEAGUES FROM SUFFOLK COUNTY WHOSE RESIDENTS ARE AFFECTED BY

                    THIS -- BY THIS BILL WILL WANT TO PROBABLY VOTE IN FAVOR OF KEEPING THE

                    RESIDENTS WHO VOTE -- IN NASSAU COUNTY, MY COLLEAGUES IN NASSAU

                    COUNTY WANT TO BE PAYING ATTENTION TO THE BILL THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY ON SO

                    THAT THEY CAN VOTE APPROPRIATELY.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.  SAME SITUATION IN NASSAU AND SUFFOLK

                                         273



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    COUNTY, BUT THANK YOU, SIR, FOR POINTING THAT OUT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. --

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  PLEASE RECORD THE FOLLOWING

                    COLLEAGUES VOTING FOR NASSAU COUNTY'S PROPORTIONAL ASSESSING UNIT

                    SYSTEM:  MR. DESTEFANO, MR. DURSO, MR. MCDONOUGH AND MR.

                    MIKULIN.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 17, RULES, REPORT NO. 478, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S08387, RULES REPORT NO.

                    478, MS. -- SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS (A09490, PRETLOW).  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE LOCAL FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO BONDS AND NOTES OF THE

                    CITY OF YONKERS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  HOME RULE IS AT THE

                    DESK.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                                         274



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8387.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO

                    WISHES TO BE TO RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE

                    REASONS I'LL MENTION.  BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY VOTE YES

                    ON THE FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU.  AGAIN, MR.

                    SPEAKER, I WANT TO -- GENERALLY, MAJORITY CONFERENCE MEMBERS WILL BE

                    IN SUPPORT OF THE LOCAL DECISIONS SO THEY'LL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS

                    ONE.  HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.

                    WE WILL WELCOME THEIR VOTE BY CALLING THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MA'AM.

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  IN 2007 THIS

                    ASSEMBLY AUTHORIZED THE CITY OF YONKERS TO SELL BONDS AT A PRIVATE

                    SALE BECAUSE THEY WERE STRUGGLING FINANCIALLY.  AND THANKFULLY, THE

                    CITY OF YONKERS HAS DRAMATICALLY IMPROVED ITS FINANCIAL SITUATION, YET

                    UNLIKE ALMOST EVERY OTHER CITY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IT STILL WANTS

                                         275



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO SELL ITS BONDS AT A PRIVATE NEGOTIATED SALE, PICKING A WINNER AND

                    LOSERS ON THOSE WHO CAN PROFIT FROM THE SALE OF ITS BONDS.  AND THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE GENERALLY SUPPORTS OPEN, COMPETITIVE BIDDING

                    DESIGNED TO GET THE BEST PRICE, TO BE FAIR AND EQUAL TO EVERYBODY AND TO

                    REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD OF FAVORITISM OR ANY CORRUPTION.

                                 FOR THAT REASON MOST OF MY COLLEAGUES, IF NOT ALL --

                    MOST OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL BE VOTING AGAINST THIS.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

                    PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MR. ENGLEBRIGHT IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS

                    ONE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 PAGE 13, RULES REPORT NO. 405, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A07230-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 405, GOTTFRIED, HEVESI, DINOWITZ, BRAUNSTEIN, MCDONALD,

                    THIELE, STIRPE, SIMON, STECK, FERNANDEZ, SOLAGES, L. ROSENTHAL,

                    SEAWRIGHT, GLICK, BRONSON, JEAN-PIERRE, COLTON, WALKER, PRETLOW,

                    WOERNER, REYES, BURGOS, AUBRY, GALEF, ZEBROWSKI, GRIFFIN.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE PRIMARY

                    CARE REFORM COMMISSION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. GOTTFRIED.

                                         276



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL

                    WOULD CREATE A COMMISSION ON PRIMARY CARE SPENDING TO DEVELOP

                    RECOMMENDATIONS ON INCREASING SPENDING ON PRIMARY CARE,

                    STRENGTHENING PRIMARY CARE INFRASTRUCTURE AND AVOIDING ANY INCREASE IN

                    COSTS TO PATIENTS OR TOTAL HEALTHCARE SPENDING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOTTFRIED YIELDS,

                    SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. GOTTFRIED.  SO JUST A FEW

                    QUESTIONS ON THIS.  I THINK THE GOAL OF THE BILL IS A LAUDABLE ONE AND ONE

                    THAT I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OFTEN ON THE HEALTH COMMITTEE AND THIS

                    CHAMBER.  BUT, YOU KNOW, IT DOES HAVE REQUIREMENTS THAT SOME ON THE

                    INSURANCE SIDE HAVE VIEWED AS BEING ONEROUS AND PERHAPS DUPLICATIVE

                    OF -- OF EXISTING COSTS.  SO I -- I WANT TO START WITH JUST, YOU KNOW, MY

                    UNDERSTANDING IS ALL THE INSURERS WOULD HAVE TO SUBMIT INFORMATION FOR

                    THE PRIOR FIVE YEARS; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  IT REQUIRES INFORMATION FOR THE

                    PRIOR FIVE YEARS AND THEN ANNUALLY GOING FORWARD, YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND IN TERMS OF THE DETAIL OF THIS

                    INFORMATION AND HOW IT DIFFERS FROM THE ALL-PAYER DATABASE THAT WAS

                    PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED, WHAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IS THIS BILL GOING TO

                    REQUIRE BE DISCLOSED?

                                         277



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S ADDITIONAL

                    INFORMATION.  IT WOULD -- IT WOULD HAVE THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THE

                    -- IN THE AGGREGATE BY TWO MAJOR CATEGORIES.  ONE IS PRIMARY CARE

                    SPENDING, THE OTHER IS EVERYTHING ELSE.  I DON'T -- SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S

                    NOT INFORMATION THAT EVERY THIRD-PARTY PAYER DOESN'T HAVE READILY

                    AVAILABLE AT THE PUSH OF A BUTTON.

                                 MR. RA:  SO, I MEAN, I DO THINK THIS WOULD BE A LARGE

                    AMOUNT OF DATA BUT YOU'RE SAYING IT'S DATA THAT THEY'RE LARGELY ALREADY

                    DISCLOSING?

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  ANY INSURANCE CEO THAT DOESN'T

                    HAVE THIS INFORMATION READILY AVAILABLE BEFORE LUNCHTIME ON ANY GIVEN

                    DAY IS AN INSURANCE COMPANY THAT IS PROBABLY ALREADY BANKRUPT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  NOW, WHAT -- WHAT ABOUT, YOU

                    KNOW, PROPRIETARY DATA?  PRICING INFORMATION, PROPRIETARY INFORMATION.

                    WOULD THEY BE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE THAT AS WELL?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THE BILL DOES NOT SPEAK TO ANYTHING

                    RESEMBLING THAT.  ALTHOUGH INFORMATION THAT COMES THAT IS SIMILAR TO

                    THAT IS ARGUABLY ALREADY IN THE ALL-PAYER CLAIMS DATABASE.  BUT ACTUALLY

                    THIS BILL DOES NOT SPEAK IN THOSE TERMS.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  NOW, ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT

                    HAS BEEN EXPRESSED AND -- AND I THINK THERE'S CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT

                    ULTIMATELY WOULD COME OUT OF THIS INFORMATION AND RECOMMENDATIONS

                    THAT MAY COME FORWARD.  SO, THEY'RE -- THEY'RE CONCERNED WITH THE

                    PLAN'S ABILITY TO MINIMIZE CONSUMER COST-SHARING AND HIGH QUALITY OF

                    CARE --

                                         278



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  COULD YOU HOLD -- HOLD ON FOR

                    JUST A SECOND?

                                 MR. RA:  -- AND ITS ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE TERMS.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  COULD YOU FOLKS KEEP IT DOWN?  I

                    CAN'T HEAR HIM.

                                 I'M SORRY.  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  SO IN TERMS OF THE PLAN'S ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE

                    TERMS, THAT'S ONE OF THE OBJECTIONS OR CONCERNS THAT HAS BEEN RAISED THAT

                    THIS WOULD -- MAY RESULT IN LIMITS TO THEIR ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE TERMS.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  THEY MUST BE THINKING OF A

                    DIFFERENT BILL.  I'M -- YOU AND I HAVE I ASSUME BOTH READ THE BILL.

                    THERE'S NOTHING RESEMBLING THAT IN THIS BILL.  AMONG OTHER THINGS, THIS

                    BILL DOESN'T -- THIS COMMISSION DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO ORDER

                    ANYTHING.  ALL IT CAN DO IS MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS.

                                 MR. RA:  CORRECT.  AND I -- AND I THINK THEIR -- THEIR

                    CONCERN THERE IS BEING RAISED IN TERMS OF THAT THAT MAY BE A GOAL OR

                    SOMETHING THAT COMES ABOUT AFTER THIS INFORMATION IS ANALYZED AND

                    RECOMMENDATIONS ARE MADE.  AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE CORRECT, THAT

                    WOULD I GUESS REALLY BE UP TO THIS BODY IN THE FUTURE TO DECIDE WHAT TO

                    DO WITH THAT INFORMATION AND PERHAPS GOING DOWN THAT ROAD.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  RIGHT.  AND REMEMBER THAT THE

                    BILL ALSO TALKS ABOUT CALLING ON THE COMMISSION TO AVOID

                    RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WOULD INCREASE TOTAL SPENDING ON HEALTHCARE.

                    SO, FOR THIRD-PARTY PAYERS THE RECOMMENDATIONS MAY CALL FOR SHIFTING

                    MONEY TOWARDS PRIMARY CARE, WHICH I THINK ANY INSURANCE COMPANY

                                         279



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WORTH ITS SALT RECOGNIZES IS THE WAY TO GO IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE

                    IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF CARE AND ULTIMATELY SAVING MONEY.  THIS

                    SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE FOR -- FOR THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY.

                                 MR. RA:  ALL RIGHT.  THANK -- THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOTTFRIED.

                                 MR. GOTTFRIED:  YOU'RE WELCOME.

                                 MR. RA:  MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. RA:  LET ME JUST QUICKLY BEFORE I SPEAK ABOUT

                    THE BILL QUICKLY, THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR.  THIS MAY BE THE LAST CHANCE

                    I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THE SPONSOR QUESTIONS ON HEALTHCARE

                    ISSUES, SO I WISH HIM WELL.  I'VE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT THIS TOPIC FROM --

                    FROM SERVING ON THE HEALTH COMMITTEE FOR MANY YEARS.  SO THANK YOU

                    FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS ON THIS BILL.

                                 AS -- AS I SAID, I THINK THE GOAL OF INCREASING THE USE

                    OF PRIMARY CARE IS ONE THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A LOT ON THE HEALTH

                    COMMITTEE, IN THIS BODY, AND OBVIOUSLY IN TERMS OF JUST UTILIZING THE

                    HEALTHCARE SERVICES THAT ARE OUT THERE AND USING THEM EFFICIENTLY.  THE

                    CONCERN THAT HAS BEEN RAISED WITH REGARD TO THIS BILL IS -- IS REALLY

                    TWOFOLD.  IT'S -- ONE IS THAT THE REQUIREMENTS MAY BE DUPLICATIVE OF

                    OTHER PRIOR PIECES OF LEGISLATION, PRIOR LAWS THAT -- THAT THEY'RE

                    COMPLYING WITH.  IT IS A LOT OF DATA, BUT ON TOP OF THAT WHERE THIS

                    ULTIMATELY LEADS US.  AND I JUST WANT TO QUICKLY READ THE POINT I WAS

                    MAKING ABOUT THE ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE TERMS AND -- BEAR WITH ME.  SO

                    THEY SAID, IMPLEMENTATION OF ANY RECOMMENDATION RESULTING FROM THIS

                                         280



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BILL THAT STRUCK THIS CRITICAL FUNCTION WOULD BE UNPRECEDENTED AND

                    SIGNIFICANTLY HAMPER THE INSURANCE EFFORTS TO OFFER AFFORDABLE

                    PREMIUMS WITH MINIMAL COST-SHARING RESPONSIBILITIES.  NOW, WE'RE

                    TALKING OBVIOUSLY ABOUT THE SPENDING ON PRIMARY CARE, TOTAL SPENDING

                    BY THESE PROVIDERS.  LIKE I SAID, THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS A VERY GOOD ONE,

                    BUT GETTING THERE IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS THE PROVIDERS TO DO THE THINGS

                    THAT THEY DO TO PROVIDE CARE EFFICIENTLY IS REALLY I THINK WHERE -- WHERE

                    THE CRUX OF THE ISSUE IS HERE.

                                 SO I JUST WANTED TO RAISE THOSE CONCERNS AND I THANK

                    THE SPONSOR FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 7230-B.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL, BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT

                    CAN CERTAINLY VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR OR BY CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER'S

                    OFFICE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                         281



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

                    THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION FROM SOMEONE WHO'S PROBABLY THE BEST CHAIR

                    OF THE HEALTH COMMITTEE THIS HOUSE HAS EVER SEEN, MR. GOTTFRIED.

                    HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES THAT WOULD CHOOSE TO

                    BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY'RE WELCOME TO CALL THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE

                    AND WE'LL BE PLEASED TO RECORD THEIR VOTE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  CERTAINLY.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  I THINK EVERYONE

                    HERE IN THE ROOM AGREES THAT PRIMARY CARE SHOULD BE CONSIDERED

                    PRIMARY AND THAT THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF WISDOM IN MAKING SURE THAT

                    INDIVIDUALS HAVE ACCESS TO HIGH-QUALITY PRIMARY CARE, AND THAT HIGH-

                    QUALITY PRIMARY CARE CAN HAVE LONG-TERM PHYSICAL BENEFITS.  THE

                    CONCERN THAT MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND I HAVE IS THAT THIS LEGISLATION

                    CAN ALSO BE USED IN AN EFFORT TO PROMOTE OTHER APPROACHES TO HEALTHCARE

                    THAT WE FIND DIFFICULT TO RECONCILE, INCLUDING A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM THAT

                    WOULD ELIMINATE COMPETITION THROUGHOUT THE MARKETPLACE AND RESULT

                    THE GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER OF HEALTHCARE.  SO WE'RE VERY CONCERNED

                    ABOUT WHERE THIS STUDY ULTIMATELY GO -- GOES, BUT WE ARE CERTAINLY

                    SUPPORTIVE OF PRIMARY CARE.  AND I'LL -- I'LL JUST MENTION ONE QUICK

                    INSTANCE.  BACK BEFORE MANY OF YOU WERE EVER THINKING ABOUT EVER

                    BEING INVOLVED IN POLITICS I HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE OF WORKING IN THE

                    COUNTY OF CHAUTAUQUA AND WE HAD A BRILLIANT COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH.

                                         282



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AND THIS IS IN THE EARLY '90S.  AND HE REALIZED THAT OUR MEDICAID

                    PATIENTS WHO WERE UNABLE TO GET A DOCTOR FOR PRIMARY CARE BECAUSE THE

                    MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT RATE WAS SO LOW AND THE PAPERWORK WAS SO

                    HIGH THAT MOST PHYSICIANS WITH A PRIMARY CARE PRACTICE SIMPLY COULD

                    NOT SEE A LOT OF MEDICAID PATIENTS AND STILL PAY THEIR OWN BILLS.  AND AS

                    A RESULT THE MEDICAID PATIENTS WERE GOING TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM,

                    WHICH COST US SO MUCH MORE MONEY AND THE QUALITY OF CARE WAS SO

                    MUCH LOWER AND THERE'S NO CONTINUITY OF CARE.  AND SO MY HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER PUT TOGETHER A PHYSICIAN CASE MANAGEMENT PROGRAM

                    AND HE WORKED WITH SOME OF THE PRIMARY CARE PRACTITIONERS AND THEY

                    SET UP A PROGRAM WHERE THEY PAID A FLAT FEE FOR EVERY MEDICAID PATIENT

                    THAT PRACTICE ACCEPTED, AND IN RETURN THAT PRACTICE AGREED TO SEE THE

                    PATIENT FOR ALL NON-EMERGENT PRIMARY CARE.  THEY COMPLETELY

                    ELIMINATED ALL THE PAPERWORK.  YOU GOT A FLAT RATE.  HOW MANY PATIENTS

                    DID YOU HAVE TIMES THE FEE, FLAT RATE.  ALL THAT AUDITING, ALL THAT

                    PAPERWORK, ALL THAT OVERHEAD.  THE PRACTICE MADE MONEY AND MY

                    COUNTY SAVED A BUNDLE.  WE CUT OUR -- OUR COST BY LIKE 60 PERCENT.  BUT

                    IT DOESN'T FIT THE MINDSET THAT SEEMS TO HAVE GOVERNMENT FOCUSED ON FEE

                    FOR SERVICE OR SOME VARIATION.  SO IF THE STUDY GOES FORWARD I HOPE THEY

                    LOOK AT COMPLETELY DIFFERENT APPROACHES AND HOW WE CAN RESTRUCTURE IT

                    TO IMPROVE CARE AND REDUCE COSTS.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                         283



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.



                                 PAGE 18, RULES REPORT NO. 514, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S09405, RULES REPORT NO.

                    514, SENATOR PARKER (COMMITTEE ON RULES, FAHY--A10439).  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE ENERGY LAW, THE EXECUTIVE LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE "ADVANCED BUILDING CODES,

                    APPLIANCE AND EQUIPMENT EFFICIENCY STANDARDS ACT OF 2022."

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MS. FAHY.

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.  THIS BILL, AS IT IS ENTITLED, IS THE -

                    IT'S A LONG ONE - IT ESTABLISHES THE ADVANCED BUILDING CODES,

                    APPLIANCE AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY STANDARDS ACT FOR THIS YEAR.  AND

                    ESSENTIALLY, THE LEGISLATION WOULD ALIGN THE ENERGY CODE WITH CLEAN

                    ENERGY AND CLIMATE POLICY GOALS THE STATE ADOPTED A FEW YEARS AGO, AS

                    WELL AS INCREASE THE STATE'S EFFICIENCY STANDARDS FOR APPLIANCES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. PALMESANO.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YES, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. FAHY:  SURE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THANK YOU, MS. FAHY.  I KNOW

                    WE WENT THROUGH A LONGER DEBATE LAST TIME, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO DO

                                         284



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THAT THIS TIME.  I JUST KIND OF WANT TO JUST ASK A COUPLE QUESTIONS.  CAN

                    YOU MAYBE -- I KNOW THIS BILL IS AMENDED, CAN YOU RUN US THROUGH

                    SOME OF THE AMENDMENTS THAT YOU MADE FROM THIS BILL FROM THE LAST BILL

                    THAT WE PASSED EARLIER THIS YEAR?

                                 MS. FAHY:  YES.  A COUPLE OF PRIMARY ONES, WERE

                    ONES THAT WE ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THE LAST TIME AND THAT WAS THE

                    BUILDING CODE COUNCIL ITSELF.  WE HAD LEFT THAT ALONE IN THE LAST

                    VERSION, AND IN THIS VERSION WE HAVE AUTHORIZED THE DEC, DEPARTMENT

                    OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION, AS WELL AS NYSERDA, COULD BE

                    APPOINTED -- MAY BE APPOINTED TO THE COUNCIL.  THE OTHER ONE

                    AUTHORIZES NYSERDA, WITH THE APPROVAL OF DEC, TO ESTABLISH THESE

                    ENERGY EFFICIENCY STANDARDS FOR WATER-RELATED APPLIANCES AND FIXTURES

                    THAT USE A RESULT AND NOT -- THE CONSUMPTION OF ENERGY.  ONE OTHER

                    SMALL ONE WAS ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION.  IT MADE THAT LANGUAGE A LITTLE

                    CLEARER AND SLIGHTLY BROADER.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  OKAY.  SO AS FAR AS SOME OF THE

                    CHANGES YOU MADE, REALLY, NOTHING ADDRESSED THE COST CONCERNS THAT WE

                    BROUGHT UP IN THE LAST BUDGET DEBATE, OR THE LAST BILL DEBATE RELATIVE TO

                    RETROFIT COSTS AND NEW YORK CONSTRUCTION COSTS BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE

                    FROM A 10-YEAR PAY BACK TO A LIFECYCLE COST.  NONE OF THIS -- NONE OF

                    THE CHANGES ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES; THOSE STILL REMAIN INTACT, CORRECT?

                                 MS. FAHY:  NO.  AND IT DOESN'T ADDRESS THAT DIRECTLY,

                    BUT IT IS INTENDED, THE ESTIMATES ARE THAT IT WOULD SAVE BILLIONS IN

                    EFFICIENCY SAVINGS OVER THE NEXT -- LESS THAN TEN YEARS.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  THOSE BILLINGS THAT YOU REFERRED

                                         285



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO, THOSE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT SOCIETAL BENEFITS, NOT JUST COST-SAVINGS THAT

                    ARE THROUGH THE EFFICIENCY PROCESS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. FAHY:  YOU MEAN THE LIFECYCLE COST?

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  RIGHT.  LIFE -- BECAUSE --

                    SOCIETAL BENEFITS ARE INCLUDED IN THOSE LIFECYCLE COST BENEFITS THAT

                    YOU'RE TALKING, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING --

                                 MS. FAHY:  YES, YES.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  OKAY.  GREAT.  NOW, YOU

                    MENTIONED ABOUT HISTORIC PRESERVATION.  I KNOW DURING THE LAST DEBATE

                    WE MENTIONED CONCERNS THAT WE HAD RELATIVE TO PREVIOUSLY HISTORIC

                    BUILDINGS WERE EXEMPT FROM THE CODE, NOW THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE, GO

                    THROUGH LIKE AN APPLICATION PROCESS WITH -- WITH THE -- WAS IT THROUGH

                    THE -- THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH AN APPLICATION PROCESS TO GET THAT

                    EXEMPTION NOW; IS THAT CORRECT, UNDER THE NEW -- UNDER THIS NEW BILL --

                    NEW LAW?

                                 MS. FAHY:  NO.  IT JUST REMOVES THE EXISTING ENERGY

                    CODE EXEMPTION, BUT IT DOESN'T -- LET'S SEE, IT -- IT JUST REMOVES THE

                    CURRENT ONE AND AUTHORIZES THE CODE COUNCIL TO PROVIDE A MORE

                    GENERIC EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO WE REMOVED THE --

                    PREVIOUSLY THEY HAD A FLAT OUT EXEMPTION.  NOW WITH THE PASSAGE OF

                    THIS BILL AND THE PREVIOUS BILL AND THESE CHANGES, NOW THEY DON'T HAVE

                    THE EXEMPTION, BUT THEY HAVE TO BASICALLY APPLY AND HAVE TO GET THAT

                    FROM THE CODES COUNCIL, DEALING WITH THAT BUILDING THAT THEY HAVE IF

                    THEY WANT TO TRY TO GET SOME RELIEF FROM THIS, OR HOW DOES THAT WORK

                                         286



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    EXACTLY?

                                 MS. FAHY:  THEY DON'T HAVE TO APPLY NECESSARILY.

                    THE COUNCIL CAN GO AHEAD AND JUST GIVE THAT EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  BUT THEY DO IT ON A

                    CASE-BY-CASE BASIS AS FAR AS SOMEONE --

                                 MS. FAHY:  NO.  THAT'S NOT THE INTENT, TO DO A

                    CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO HOW DOES THE COUNCIL MAKE

                    THE DETERMINATION IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER OF

                    HISTORIC PRESERVATION BUILDINGS WE HAVE, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO MAKE

                    THAT DETERMINATION THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS?

                                 MS. FAHY:  THEY CAN MAKE A NUMBER OF THOSE

                    DECISIONS UP FRONT AND DO THAT AS A PART OF ADOPTING THESE NEW

                    STANDARDS.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  SO WOULD IT BE JUST A BLANKET

                    ALMOST, LIKE, EXEMPTION, FOR HISTORICS OR NOT?  I JUST -- I'M JUST KIND OF

                    CONFUSED ON IT, BECAUSE IF THEY HAD A BLANKET EXEMPTION BEFORE, NOW

                    THEY'RE SAYING THE CODE COUNCIL CAN OFFER THAT TO THEM, BUT I'M REALLY

                    JUST -- I'M KIND OF CONFUSED ON THE SPECIFICS ON HOW THAT WOULD WORK,

                    THAT'S ALL.

                                 MS. FAHY:  IT COULD BE.  IT DOES GIVE THEM THAT

                    FLEXIBILITY.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  OKAY.  WELL, THANK YOU FOR

                    YOUR TIME, I APPRECIATE IT.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                         287



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. PALMESANO:  YEAH, THIS LEGISLATION REALLY IS

                    -- IS REALLY GOING TO ELIMINATE CONSIDERATION BY THE CODE COUNCIL TO

                    WHAT ARE COSTS OF MATERIALS AND INSULATION WILL RESULT IN PRESENT VALUE

                    ENERGY SAVINGS IN TEN YEARS TO A LIFECYCLE COST METHODOLOGY, AND THIS

                    ALSO EXPANDS THE MANDATE OF THE ENERGY CODE TO PROMOTE CLEAN ENERGY

                    CLIMATE AGENDA.  AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS JUST ANOTHER STEP IN

                    THE PLAYBOOK TO DISMANTLE OUR STATE'S ECONOMY TO ENSURE THAT THE

                    AFFORDABILITY AND RELIABILITY OF OUR ENERGY SUPPLY SYSTEM IS NOT -- IS NOT

                    TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, IT WILL ULTIMATELY LEAD TO -- CERTAINLY LEAD TO

                    INCREASED COSTS FOR FAMILIES, FARMERS, SENIORS, SMALL BUSINESSES AND

                    MANUFACTURES WITH, IN MY OPINION, VERY LITTLE BENEFITS.  I KNOW THEY

                    TALK ABOUT SOCIETAL BENEFITS, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THIS LIFECYCLE CHANGE

                    FROM THE 10-YEAR PAYBACK TO LIFECYCLE.  THIS LEGISLATION, THE ORIGINAL

                    HAD IT AND NOW THIS BILL HAS LIKE SOME 60 TO 70-PLUS DEFINITION CHANGES.

                    SOME ARE VERY BROAD, THEY ARE LISTED, AND BASICALLY GIVES THE AUTHORITY

                    TO NYSERDA TO ACT ON THAT.  I THINK, YOU KNOW, PROVIDING THAT

                    AUTHORITY TO NYSERDA TO BASICALLY ADOPT REGULATIONS DEALING WITH

                    ESTABLISHING ENERGY EFFICIENCY, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE ALL THESE DEFINITIONS

                    AND SOME NOT DEFINED, I THINK THAT'S CONCERNING.

                                 AND CHANGING TO THE CODE AS IT RELATES TO THE LIFECYCLE

                    CHANGES ARE CONCERNING INSTEAD OF GOING TO A 10-YEAR PAYBACK ANALYSIS

                    I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.  CODE

                    CHANGES THAT HAVE SIGNIFICANT COST IMPACTS ON CONSTRUCTION, BOTH NEW

                    AND REHABILITATION COSTS, WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE FUTURE, THE MARCH

                                         288



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TOWARDS ELECTRIFICATION WITH GEOTHERMAL INSTALLATIONS, WHICH WOULD

                    REQUIRE BUILDING SHELL UPGRADES -- UPGRADES TO OUR ELECTRIC CIRCUITS AND

                    PANELS.  THIS ALL NEEDS TO BE RECOGNIZED IN THE CODE TO BE FAIR AND

                    TRANSPARENT.  IT DOESN'T, JUST LIKE THE OTHER POLICIES THAT COME OUT OF THIS

                    HOUSE WHEN IT COMES TO THE CLCPA AND THEIR IMPLEMENTATION THAT'S

                    BEING TALKED ABOUT BY THE CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL.

                                 BY ELIMINATING THE 10-YEAR PAYBACK, YOU'RE BASICALLY

                    REMOVING AFFORDABILITY AND COST AS A CONSIDERATION FOR NEW CODE

                    CHANGES IN NEW YORK.  AND EVEN THAT 10-YEAR PAYBACK DIDN'T REQUIRE IT

                    TO BE ACTED UPON, IT JUST ASKED FOR THAT TO BE A CONSIDERATION.  BUT

                    UNFORTUNATELY, BUSINESS AS USUAL IN NEW YORK, COST AND AFFORDABILITY

                    ARE NOT BEING TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AS WE ADVANCE THESE POLICIES

                    DOWN THE PIPELINE WITH TREMENDOUS UPFRONT COSTS TO CONSUMERS, SENIOR

                    CITIZENS, OUR FARMERS, OUR FAMILIES, SMALL BUSINESSES, MANUFACTURES AND

                    THE LIKE.

                                 WE TALK ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THIS CHAMBER

                    TIME AND TIME AGAIN.  THE PROBLEM CONTINUES TO GROW AND THE NEED

                    CONTINUES TO GROW.  WE KNOW ABOUT THE FAMILIES AND INDIVIDUALS WHO

                    ARE BACKDATED ON RENTS, LANDLORDS WHO HAVEN'T RECEIVED PAYMENTS,

                    MORTGAGES THAT WERE IN DISTRESS.  THIS IS JUST GOING TO INCREASE COSTS

                    AND NOW COST -- THESE COST INCREASES WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED TO HELP

                    CREATE MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.  IT'S GOING TO BE MORE PROBLEMATIC FOR

                    OUR HOMEOWNERS, FOR THE TENANTS, FOR OUR FAMILIES.  LIKE I SAID, THE

                    TENANTS IN THE BUILDINGS AND THEN -- WHICH IS GOING TO INCREASE -- YOU

                    KNOW, REQUIRE ADDITIONAL COSTS FOR LANDLORDS WHICH WILL BE PASSED ON

                                         289



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    TO TENANTS THROUGH RENT INCREASES.  IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO SEE

                    HAPPEN?  I DON'T THINK SO.

                                 YOU HAVE THE NYCHA PUBLIC HOUSING, WHICH I HAVE

                    TOURED AND VISITED, WHICH IS A DISASTER THAT NEEDS ASSISTANCE AND NEEDS

                    IMPROVEMENTS, AND UPGRADES ARE GOING TO COST A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT

                    OF MONEY.  HOW IS THAT GOING TO BE PAID FOR WITH THE PUBLIC HOUSING IN

                    ALL THOSE AREAS?  I HAVE VERY STRONG CONCERNS ABOUT THE HISTORIC

                    BUILDING ASPECT OF THIS BILL.  WE PREVIOUSLY HAD EXEMPTIONS IN PLACE.

                    NOW SUPPOSEDLY THE BILL -- THE BUILDING CODES ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO

                    PUT IN PLACE SOME SORT OF EXEMPTION, BUT JUST REALLY DOESN'T SEEM TO BE

                    DEFINED HERE.  AND I THINK IT'S ALSO GOING TO BE ALMOST LIKE A NEW

                    BUREAUCRATIC LENGTHY -- POSSIBLE LENGTHY PROCESS.  AND THEN, YOU KNOW,

                    THERE ARE MANY OLDER HOMES THAT AREN'T GOING TO BE QUALIFIED FOR

                    HISTORIC, YOU KNOW, OLDER FARM HOMES THAT MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO GET THAT

                    ELIGIBILITY.  THEY'RE GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANT COST IMPROVEMENTS FOR THEM

                    TO MAKE THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT IN THIS CONSIDERATION, AS

                    WELL, WHICH I DO NOT THINK IS BEING DONE.

                                 AND AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ALL PART OF

                    THE MARCH TOWARDS ELECTRIFICATION, THESE CHANGES WITH THE BUILDING

                    CODE, COST TO FULLY -- COME 2030, YOUR CONSTITUENTS, MY CONSTITUENTS,

                    OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE FACED WITH A RUNAWAY FREIGHT TRAIN BECAUSE COME

                    2030 IF YOU HEAT YOUR HOME WITH NATURAL GAS AND A NATURAL GAS BOILER

                    OR A NATURAL GAS FURNACE, IF THAT NATURAL GAS BOILER OR FURNACE GOES, YOU

                    WILL NOT, BASED ON THE POLICIES BEING ADOPTED BY THE CAC AND THE

                    CLCPA TO GET THE ZERO EMISSION GOALS, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CONVERT

                                         290



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THAT HOME TO PROVIDE -- EXCUSE ME, TO BUY A NATURAL GAS BOILER OR

                    FURNACE.  AT THAT POINT IN TIME, YOU WILL HAVE TO FULLY CONVERT YOUR

                    HOME TO FULL ELECTRIC COME 2030, WHICH MEANS BUYING A GEOTHERMAL

                    HEAT PUMP, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, WHICH ALSO MEANS IMPROVING

                    THE SHELL OF YOUR PROPERTY, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.  IMPROVING

                    YOUR CIRCUITS AND YOUR ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF

                    DOLLARS.  THE ESTIMATES SHOW THAT IT WOULD COST THE AVERAGE FAMILY

                    HOMEOWNER $35,000 TO CONVERT THEIR HOME OVER TO ELECTRIFICATION.

                    EVEN THE CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL HAS ESTIMATES IN THEIR PLANS BEING

                    $25- TO $50,000.  THESE ARE SIGNIFICANT, UPFRONT COSTS THAT THE PUBLIC

                    HAS NO IDEA THAT'S COMING THEIR WAY, ALL IN THE NEED TO SAY THAT WE'RE

                    GOING TO MEET OUR CLIMATE GOALS AND I THINK THAT'S JUST VERY, VERY

                    CONCERNING TO ME FROM THE PERSPECTIVE THIS IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT I

                    HAVE BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT BECAUSE YOUR CONSTITUENTS, MY

                    CONSTITUENTS, THEY REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THIS AREA.

                    THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN -- AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT OUR ELECTRIC BILL

                    PRICES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE CONVERSION COSTS.

                                 AND LISTEN, WHEN I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS ISSUE, I HAVE

                    NEVER SAID WE SHOULDN'T INVEST IN RENEWABLE ENERGY, OUR SIDE HAS NEVER

                    SAID WE SHOULDN'T DO THAT.  WE JUST SAID WE WANT IT TO BE BALANCED AND

                    WE JUST DON'T WANT TO DO IT ALONE.  THE PROBLEM IS WHEN WE TRY TO -- OUR

                    MARCH TO ZERO NET EMISSIONS, NEW YORK RIGHT NOW ONLY CONTRIBUTES 0.4

                    PERCENT OF THE TOTAL GLOBAL EMISSIONS IN THE WORLD -- .4.  CHINA IS 29

                    PERCENT, INDIA IS 7 PERCENT, RUSSIA IS 4 PERCENT.  CHINA CONTINUES TO

                    BUILD COAL PLANTS, THEY HAVE OVER 1,000 COAL PLANTS, THEY CONTINUE TO

                                         291



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BUILD MORE.  INDIA DOESN'T HAVE ELECTRICITY, THEY WANT TO USE COAL TO

                    PROVIDE ELECTRICITY.  RUSSIA IS INVESTING IN $110 BILLION ARCTIC OIL PORT.

                    ALL THESE THINGS ARE -- THESE GROUPS, DO WE EXPECT THEM GOING TO HELP

                    US WITH OUR MARCH TO TRY TO GET TO ZERO NET EMISSIONS?  NO.  WE'RE

                    PUTTING THIS ALL ON THE BACK OF OUR -- OF OUR TAXPAYERS, OUR RATEPAYERS

                    BECAUSE NO ONE IS GOING TO PARTICIPATE WITH US IN THIS GOAL.  SO WE CAN

                    GET TO 0 PERCENT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE'RE GOING TO JEOPARDIZE OUR

                    RELIABILITY IN OUR ENERGY SYSTEM, WHICH NYSERDA HAS ALREADY SAID BY

                    2040 WE HAVE A HUGE GAP THAT NEEDS TO BE MET, AND MET SOON.  IT'S NOT

                    IDENTIFIED -- THE CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL CAN'T IDENTIFY THAT.  THERE'S

                    GOING TO BE CARBON LEAKAGE WHEN WE -- WE CAN BE ZERO HERE, OUR NEW

                    YORK STATE DOESN'T KNOW BOUNDARIES WHEN IT COMES TO CLIMATE AND

                    CARBON EMISSIONS.  AGAIN, IF CHINA'S EMITTING AT 29 PERCENT, INDIA AT 7

                    PERCENT -- AND CHINA IN THE FIRST QUARTER OF 2021 INCREASED THEIR CARBON

                    EMISSIONS BY 14.5 PERCENT.  EVEN PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID IF CHINA'S NOT

                    ON BOARD, WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME.  I AGREE WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, WE'RE

                    WASTING OUR TIME.  AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THE CLCPA.  I

                    UNDERSTAND THE GOALS AND THE INITIATIVES TO TRY TO GET THE CLEAN ENERGY,

                    BUT WE'RE GOING AT A PACE THAT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE, THAT IS NOT AFFORDABLE

                    AND CERTAINLY NOT RELIABLE.  HOW GREAT IS IT TO BE AT 0 PERCENT IF WE CAN'T

                    KEEP THE HEAT AND THE LIGHTS ON WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FULLY

                    POWERING YOUR HOME WITH HEAT IF YOU'RE IN THE NORTH COUNTRY OR IN

                    WESTERN NEW YORK BY SOLAR AND WIND WHICH IS NOT RELIABLE, WHICH WE

                    KNOW IS INTERMITTENT.

                                 I KNOW I'M TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS HERE, BUT THIS

                                         292



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    IS ALL RELATABLE TO THIS BILL BECAUSE IT'S ALL PART OF A PACKAGE THAT CLIMATE

                    ACTIVISTS CONTINUE TO PUSH.  BUT MY CONCERN, AND A NUMBER OF THE

                    CONCERNS ON MY SIDE OF THE AISLE, THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND THE

                    FAMILIES IS THIS IS NOT BEING DONE IN A FAIR AND BALANCED APPROACH.

                    AFFORDABILITY AND RELIABILITY CONTINUES NOT TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT,

                    AND THAT'S UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY, VERY

                    PROBLEMATIC FOR YOUR CONSTITUENTS, FOR MY CONSTITUENTS, FOR THIS ENTIRE

                    STATE.  WHAT ARE WE GOING TO SEND TO -- WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE ARE WE

                    SENDING TO OUR BUSINESS COMMUNITY IF THEY CAN'T -- OUR MANUFACTURES

                    AND OUR SMALL BUSINESSES CAN'T OPERATE IF THEY DON'T HAVE A RELIABLE

                    SOURCE OF ENERGY AND IF THE ENERGY IS TOO EXPENSIVE THAT THEY'RE

                    RECEIVING?

                                 ONE OTHER POINT, ENERGY SECURITY.  YOU KNOW, WITH THE

                    MARCH, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE

                    SUPPLIES THAT THEY USE, CHINA CONTROLS 87 PERCENT OF THE MARKETPLACE

                    WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THOSE RARE EARTH -- THE METALS AND THE ELEMENTS

                    THAT GO INTO PRODUCTION OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES, GO INTO THE PRODUCTION OF

                    BATTERIES, 87 PERCENT OF THAT IS PROCESSED BY CHINA.  THEY CONTROL THAT

                    MARKET.  SO WE'RE TURNING OUR WHOLE ENERGY SECURITY OVER TO CHINA

                    WHILE, AT THE SAME TIME, WHEN THEY DO PROCESS THAT, WHAT ARE THEY

                    USING?  THEY'RE USING COAL POWER TO PROCESS.  SO WHAT KIND OF IMPACT

                    ARE WE MAKING ON OUR ENVIRONMENT AS WE WORK TOWARDS THESE GOALS

                    HERE IN NEW YORK STATE WHEN NO ONE ELSE IS JOINING US, NO ONE ELSE IS

                    GOING TO FOLLOW US, AND I KNOW WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE ON YOUR

                    SIDE OF THE AISLE YOU SAY WE'RE GOING TO LEAD.  WE'RE GOING TO LEAD, ALL

                                         293



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO LEAD WITH BUSINESSES, FAMILIES, MANUFACTURERS,

                    FARMERS LEAVING OUR STATE WHILE WE BANKRUPT THOSE WHO ARE STILL HERE

                    AND CAN'T MOVE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT.  IT'S CHALLENGING AND THERE'S

                    A LOT MORE WE NEED TO DO.

                                 SO AS WE CONTINUE THIS MARCH TO ZERO NET EMISSIONS

                    AND THESE CLCPA GOALS THAT CONTINUE TO BE PUSHED, I'M JUST

                    CONCERNED.  I WISH YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE

                    CONCERNED ABOUT THE FINANCIAL COSTS AND IMPACT, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT

                    GOING TO MAKE THE TRUE IMPACT OVERALL WHEN NEW YORK ONLY

                    CONTRIBUTES 0.4 PERCENT OF THE TOTAL CARBON EMISSIONS IN THE WORLD, AND

                    CHINA'S RUNNING RAMPANT AND NOT HELPING US AND CONTINUING THEIR

                    MARCH TO DOMINATE THE ENERGY MARKET, WHETHER IT'S BUILDING COAL PLANTS

                    AND CONTROLLING THE RARE EARTH MATERIALS THAT ARE NEEDED FOR FULL

                    ELECTRIFICATION ALONG THE WAY.  SO FOR THAT -- THESE MANY REASONS, MR.

                    SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, I'M GOING TO VOTE NO AND I URGE MY

                    COLLEAGUES TO CONTINUE TO DO THE SAME.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9405.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO

                    WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                                         294



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE REASONS

                    MENTIONED BY MY COLLEAGUE AND OTHERS.  THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT CAN

                    CERTAINLY VOTE YES HERE ON THE FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

                    THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME WHO CHOOSE TO

                    BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY CAN EITHER SELECT THAT OPTION HERE IN THE

                    CHAMBERS OR THEY CAN CALL THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE WILL

                    MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  OBVIOUSLY HERE ON

                    THE FLOOR OF THE LEGISLATURE, WE BELIEVE IN THE IMPORTANCE AND VALUE OF

                    LEGISLATION, AND THE POWER AND THE STRENGTH OF THE STATE THROUGH

                    MANDATES, BACKED BY LAW, TO ACCOMPLISH OBJECTIVES.  BUT THERE'S AN

                    EVEN STRONGER AND MORE EFFECTIVE WAY TO PROMOTE EFFICIENCY AND THAT'S

                    THROUGH THE MARKETPLACE.  AND SO IF MORE EFFICIENT APPLIANCES COST

                    CONSUMERS LESS MONEY, EITHER IN THE SHORT-TERM OR LONG-TERM, WE DON'T

                    NEED TO PASS LEGISLATION, DO WE, BECAUSE OUR RESIDENTS ARE SMART

                    PEOPLE.  AND OUR RESIDENTS WILL VOTE WITH THEIR POCKETBOOK.

                                 AND SO RATHER THAN PASSING MANDATES THAT SOME OF OUR

                                         295



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    RESIDENTS WON'T BE ABLE TO AFFORD, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF WE FOCUS ON

                    HOW WE MAKE ENERGY EFFICIENCY MORE AFFORDABLE RATHER THAN MORE

                    EXPENSIVE.  AND TO THE EXTENT WE'RE SUCCESSFUL IN MAKING ENERGY

                    EFFICIENCY MORE AFFORDABLE, OUR SMART RESIDENTS WON'T MOVE IN THAT

                    DIRECTION WITHOUT STATE LEGISLATION.  AND FOR THAT REASON, I DON'T THINK

                    THIS LEGISLATION IS THE RIGHT APPROACH, AND ALTHOUGH I CERTAINLY SUPPORT

                    MY COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE TO IMPROVE ENERGY EFFICIENCY, THE BEST WAY TO DO

                    IT IS THROUGH THE MARKETPLACE BY MAKING IT MORE COST-EFFECTIVE RATHER

                    THAN MANDATING IT.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. FAHY TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. FAHY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I JUST WANT TO

                    BRIEFLY NOTE THAT THIS BILL, AGAIN, IT ESTABLISHES ADVANCED BUILDING

                    CODES, APPLIANCE AND EQUIPMENT EFFICIENCY.  IT BUILDS UPON THE

                    CLIMATE GOALS THAT WE ADOPTED IN 2019 AND I THINK WILL HELP US WITH

                    MOVING TOWARD MORE EFFICIENT APPLIANCES, AS WELL AS BUILDINGS.

                    BUILDINGS ARE THE SINGLE LARGEST USER OF ENERGY IN THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK AND ACCOUNT FOR MOST OF THE ENERGY CONSUMED BY THE END USE IN

                    -- IN -- IN THE STATE.  THESE NEW CODES WOULD HELP GOVERN NEW

                    BUILDINGS, AS WELL AS EXISTING BUILDINGS AND BUILD US TOWARDS A LESSER

                    CARBON FOOTPRINT.

                                 I SHOULD ADD THAT ONE ANALYSIS SHOWS THAT ENERGY

                    EFFICIENCY IN PRODUCT STANDARDS HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO REDUCE 36 MILLION

                    METRIC TONS OF CARBON DIOXIDE, THE EQUIVALENT OF THOSE EMISSIONS OVER

                                         296



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    LIFETIME OF MEASURES BY 2030, OR THE EQUIVALENT OF REMOVING THE

                    ENERGY OF HALF A MILLION CARS FROM THE ROAD EACH YEAR.  THIS NEW

                    PRODUCT AND APPLIANCE STANDARDS ALSO HAS THE ABILITY TO DELIVER A

                    PROJECTED $15 BILLION IN UTILITY SAVINGS BY 2035, WHICH ALSO INCLUDES 6

                    BILLION OF THAT 15- IN UTILITY SAVINGS FOR LOW- TO MODERATE-INCOME

                    HOUSEHOLDS.

                                 THIS IS OVERDUE, IT WILL HELP US MEET OUR GOALS AND

                    HELP INCREASE EFFICIENCY.  AND WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I VOTE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. FAHY IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. ENGLEBRIGHT TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. ENGLEBRIGHT:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I

                    JUST WANT TO COMPLIMENT THE SPONSOR.  HER INITIATIVE, I THINK, IS

                    FARSIGHTED AND NECESSARY.  WE HAVE JUST HEARD DURING THE DEBATE SOME

                    PREREQUISITES THAT HAVE BEEN SURMISED TO BE APPROPRIATE BEFORE WE TAKE

                    ACTION IN NEW YORK.  I WOULD POINT OUT THAT NEW YORK IS A LEADER AND

                    THAT THE ENTIRE PART OF THE EARTH THAT WE CALL CIVILIZATION NEEDS TO MOVE

                    IN THE DIRECTION THAT THIS BILL POINTS US TOWARD.  WE SHOULDN'T IMPOSE

                    PREREQUISITES FOR OUR OWN ACTION TO WAIT FOR CHINA TO CATCH UP WITH THE

                    REALITY THAT ATMOSPHERE CHANGES AND -- ATMOSPHERIC CHANGES AND

                    CHANGES IN THE GLOBAL OCEAN ARE IMPERILING THE GLOBAL ECOSYSTEM.

                    AGAIN, THIS IS A VERY APPROPRIATE, FARSIGHTED INITIATIVE.  THANK YOU TO

                    THE SPONSOR FOR PUTTING IT BEFORE US.  I VOTE AYE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ENGLEBRIGHT IN

                                         297



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  WE'RE GOING TO GO NOW BACK TO MR. ANDERSON, WHO IS READY.

                                 MR. ANDERSON.  THAT'S RULES REPORT NO. 391,

                    ANDERSON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PAGE 12, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 391, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S09297, RULES REPORT NO.

                    391, SENATOR KAVANAGH (COMMITTEE ON RULES, ANDERSON--A10228).

                    AN ACT TO AMEND THE PRIVATE HOUSING FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    INCREASING THE BONDING AUTHORITY OF THE NEW YORK CITY HOUSING

                    DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. ANDERSON.

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THANK

                    YOU, MR. GOODELL.  THIS BILL WOULD ESSENTIALLY INCREASE THE BONDING

                    AUTHORITY OF THE NEW YORK CITY HOUSING DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION,

                    ALSO KNOWN AS HDC, BY $1 BILLION FOR A TOTAL CAP OF $18 BILLION.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                                         298



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ANDERSON, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  FOR MR. GOODELL, I WILL YIELD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL, THE

                    GENTLEMAN YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. ANDERSON.  AND

                    YOU'LL BE GLAD TO KNOW THERE ARE MORE ANDERSONS IN JAMESTOWN THAT I

                    REPRESENT THAN ANY OTHER MUNICIPALITY OF ITS SIZE.

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  WAIT A MINUTE, IS IT THE COOL

                    ANDERSON WITH THE O, OR THE E?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  S-O-N.

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  AHH, THERE WE GO.  SO THEY'VE

                    DONE IT CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO YOU'LL FEEL RIGHT AT HOME IN

                    MY DISTRICT.

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  I'M EXCITED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AM I CORRECT THAT THESE BONDS ARE

                    BACKED BY THE TAXPAYERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK IF THEY'RE NOT PAID

                    FOR BY THE PROCEEDS OF THE BONDS?

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  I'M SORRY, MR. GOODELL, CAN YOU

                    REPEAT?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AM I CORRECT THAT THE -- THESE

                    BONDS ARE BACKED BY THE STATE OF NEW YORK?

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  NO, MR. GOODELL, THESE BONDS ARE

                                         299



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NOT BACKED BY THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  THIS IS A PUBLIC AUTHORITY SO

                    THESE BONDS ARE DONE SEPARATELY FROM THAT PROCESS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I SEE.  AND DOES THE STATE OF NEW

                    YORK HAVE ANY, WHAT WE CALL "MORAL OBLIGATION" TO PAY THESE BONDS

                    BASED ON ANY APPROPRIATION FROM THE STATE?

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  NO.  NO MORE OBLIGATIONS ON

                    THESE BONDS, MR. GOODELL; IN FACT, AND I KNOW YOU STUDIED

                    CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES AND, IN THIS CASE,

                    CORPORATIONS, ARE ALLOWED TO ISSUE DEBT.  SO THAT'S WHAT THIS CORPORATION

                    DOES, HDC, ISSUED DEBT AND THAT'S UPHELD BY THE SCHULZ V. NEW YORK

                    CASE IN 1994.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND WE'RE -- JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO

                    WE PASSED A BUDGET BILL, WE INCLUDE SEVERAL BILLIONS DOLLARS IN DEBT AND

                    INTEREST PAYMENTS.  WERE ANY OF THE FUNDS IN THE BUDGET BILL THAT WE

                    PASSED JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO USED TO PAY DOWN THE DEBTS OF THIS

                    ORGANIZATION?

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  NO, MR. GOODELL.  THIS IS, AGAIN,

                    A PRIVATE SORT OF ENTITY, PUBLIC CORPORATION, IF YOU WILL, RATHER.  SO THAT

                    -- THAT -- THAT PIECE DOESN'T APPLY.  SO I WANT TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT

                    WE'RE CLEAR.  AND I ALSO WANT TO -- I KNOW THAT YOU REFERENCED EARLIER IN

                    RELATION TO A SEPARATE BILL, BUT THE LEGISLATIVE HISTORY ON THIS BILL IS VERY

                    CLEAR.  IT'S PASSED 2010, 2013, '18, '19, '21, AND IT'S BECAUSE, AGAIN,

                    WE'RE JUST GIVING HDC THE AUTHORITY TO BORROW MORE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND LOOKING AT THE LEGISLATIVE

                    HISTORY, AND YOU'RE CORRECT, IT APPEARS AS THOUGH EVERY YEAR FOR THE LAST

                                         300



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    19 YEARS WE HAVE INCREASED THEIR BOND LIMIT.  HAS THEIR --

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  BONDING AUTHORITY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  BONDING AUTHORITY.  HAS THEIR DEBT

                    EVER GONE DOWN?

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  BUT I WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT,

                    MR. GOODELL, THESE ARE REVENUE BONDS SO THEY CAN ALWAYS BORROW AND

                    PAY DOWN, YOU KNOW, AS -- AS TIME PASSES.  AGAIN, THESE ARE REVENUE

                    BONDS.  I DON'T WANT YOU TO THINK THAT THESE ARE BONDS WHICH, YOU

                    KNOW, IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    ANDERSON.  I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS AND CLARIFICATION.

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  NEW YORK HAS THE DUBIOUS

                    DISTINCTION OF HAVING SOME OF THE HIGHEST DEBT PER CAPITA IN THE NATION,

                    AND OUR PUBLIC AUTHORITIES, INCLUDING THIS AUTHORITY, LEAD THE WAY IN

                    TERMS OF ADDING MORE AND MORE DEBT EVERY YEAR.  AND INDEED, THIS BILL

                    ADDS $1 BILLION, $1 BILLION IN ADDITIONAL DEBT.  NOW, NO DOUBT THIS

                    ADDITIONAL DEBT WILL BE VERY HELPFUL FOR THIS ORGANIZATION, AND NO DOUBT

                    SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY IT BACK.  AND THAT'S GOING

                    TO BE OUR KIDS OR OUR GRANDKIDS OR SOMEONE ELSE.

                                 AND SO JUST SPEAKING FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IN MY

                    PRIVATE LIFE I DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO REDUCE MY DEBT AND THE RESTRUCTURE

                    OF MY OPERATIONS SAW THAT MY REVENUES MEET OR EXCEED MY EXPENSES,

                                         301



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AND THAT'S THE PROCESS THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND FOR OUR AUTHORITIES, AS

                    WELL.  SOME PRACTICAL, COMMON SENSE ECONOMIC THEORY THAT SUGGESTS

                    THAT WE SHOULD AND CAN KEEP OUR SPENDING IN LINE WITH OUR REVENUES

                    RATHER THAN BORROWING MORE AND MORE AND MORE FOR 19 YEARS IN A ROW.

                                 SO FOR THAT REASON, I AND MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL

                    BE OPPOSING THIS BILL, BUT I RECOGNIZE THAT AS WITH MANY OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES, THEY DO GREAT WORK WITH ALL THE MONEY THEY BORROW.

                    THANK YOU, SIR, AND THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE FOR THOSE COMMENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. ANDERSON ON THE

                    BILL.

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  SIR, YOU'VE GOT TO GET

                    THAT MIC ON.

                                 MR. ANDERSON:  SORRY.  I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THE

                    MIC WAS WORKING.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  SO I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR

                    THAT MOST HOUSEHOLDS BALANCE THEIR HOUSEHOLDS ON DEBTS AND DEFICITS,

                    AND I THINK IF WE DO SO RESPONSIBLY WE'RE ABLE TO ENSURE THAT THERE'S

                    SUCCESSFUL USE IN THAT.  AND HDC, AGAIN, IS REQUIRING THAT CAP TO BE

                    LIFTED SO THAT IT CAN PRODUCE THE THOUSANDS OF AFFORDABLE HOMES AND

                    APARTMENTS ACROSS THE CITY OF NEW YORK TO ENSURE THAT WE ADDRESS THE

                    EXACERBATED HOMELESSNESS CRISIS THAT'S IMPACTING, AND HOUSING

                    INSECURITY CRISIS THAT'S IMPACTING MANY, MANY NEW YORKERS.

                                 SO IT'S VERY CRITICAL THAT WE PASS THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION, AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT.  I WILL

                                         302



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BE, AS WELL, AND I THANK MY COLLEAGUE, MR. GOODELL, FOR HIS

                    QUESTIONING.  IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, AGAIN, THAT WE LOOK AT THIS FROM A

                    HOLISTIC SENSE OF WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY PRODUCING WITH THESE DEBTS AND

                    DEFICITS.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    ANDERSON.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 9297.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER WHO

                    WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION IS

                    REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THE $1 BILLION INCREASE IN DEBT FOR

                    THE NEW YORK CITY HOUSING DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, BUT CERTAINLY

                    WE HAVE MEMBERS THAT APPRECIATE ALL THE GREAT WORK THEY DO WITH ALL

                    THAT FUND -- ALL THOSE FUNDS.  AND SO IN GENERAL, WE'LL BE VOTING NO, BUT

                    HISTORICALLY THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL MEMBERS THAT VOTE YES AND I WOULD

                    ENCOURAGE THEM TO CONTINUE TO DO SO HERE IN THE CHAMBER OR BY CALLING

                    THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                                         303



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SPEAKER.  MAJORITY COLLEAGUES ARE GENERALLY GOING TO SUPPORT OUR

                    COLLEAGUE IN THIS LEGISLATION TO IMPROVE HOUSING AND AFFORDABLE

                    HOUSING IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME WHO

                    WOULD CHOOSE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE IN

                    CONTACTING THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE WILL BE HAPPY TO

                    RECORD YOUR VOTE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES,

                    WE'RE GOING TO KEEP GOING HERE BECAUSE WE'RE DOING SO WELL.  SO WE'RE

                    GOING TO GO TO RULES REPORT NO. 139; RULES REPORT NO. 429.  I'M

                    SORRY, LET ME JUST SAY RULES REPORT NO. 139 IS THE SPONSOR, LUPARDO;

                    RULES REPORT NO. 429 IS SPONSORED BY MR. MAGNARELLI; CALENDAR NO.

                    44 IS SPONSORED BY MS. ROSENTHAL; CALENDAR NO. 160 IS SPONSORED BY

                    MS. BUTTENSCHON -- BICHOTTE HERMELYN, I'M SORRY; AND CALENDAR NO.

                    365 IS BY MR. WEPRIN, AND 474 IS BY MR. WEPRIN AS WELL.  THOSE --

                    479, MR. WEPRIN AS WELL.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, THOSE WILL BE STRAIGHT VOTES AND THEN

                    WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO ACTUAL DEBATES AND THAT'S GOING TO BE

                    CALENDAR NO. 24 BY MR. JACOBSON; RULES REPORT NO. 513 BY MR.

                    ABBATE; CALENDAR NO. 163 BY MR. ABBATE; CALENDAR NO. 29 BY MS.

                                         304



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PAULIN; AND CALENDAR NO. 194 BY MS. JOYNER.  IN THAT ORDER, MR.

                    SPEAKER, THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  PAGE 6, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 139, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09328-B, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 139, LUPARDO.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES

                    LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING CERTAIN FUNDS

                    RECEIVED BY THE NEW YORK STATE ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT

                    AUTHORITY THAT ARE RELATED TO RENEWABLES DEVELOPMENT ON VIABLE

                    AGRICULTURAL LANDS TO BE USED FOR FARMLAND PROTECTION PROGRAMS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 9328-B.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 14, RULES REPORT NO. 429, THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                 (PAUSE)


                                 THE CLERK:  SENATE NO. S08956-C, SENATOR

                    MANNION.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW.

                                         305



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  NO, WE'RE GOING TO

                    HAVE TO -- IT HAS --

                                 THE CLERK:  MY APOLOGIES.


                                 ASSEMBLY NO. A09966-C, RULES REPORT NO. 429,

                    MAGNARELLI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO THE SYRACUSE REGIONAL AIRPORT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    MAGNARELLI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 8956-C.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE

                    MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 23, CALENDAR NO. 44, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00715, CALENDAR NO.

                    44, L. ROSENTHAL, WEPRIN.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW

                    AND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING EMERGENCY MEDICAL

                    SERVICE PERSONNEL TO PROVIDE BASIC FIRST AID TO CATS AND DOGS UNDER

                    CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                         306



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 365TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 715.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE SHOULD CONTACT THE MAJORITY

                    OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THIS BILL ALLOWS

                    EMTS TO PROVIDE BASIC FIRST AID TO DOG AND CATS BEFORE TRANSPORTING

                    THEM TO A LICENSED VET.  AND I LOVE DOGS AND CATS, AND I'LL BE

                    SUPPORTING THE BILL, BUT I WOULD POINT OUT THAT THIS IS NOT QUITE AS

                    STRAIGHTFORWARD AS YOU MIGHT THINK, SO LET ME JUST GIVE YOU SOME

                    THINGS TO THINK ABOUT.

                                 SO YOUR DOG OR CAT GETS HURT, YOU'RE GOING TO CALL THE

                    LOCAL EMTS AND HOPE THEY SHOW UP WITH AN AMBULANCE AND TRANSPORT

                    YOUR DOG OR CAT TO THE VET.  WELL, THIS BILL WILL ALLOW THEM TO DO IT

                    WITHOUT BEING SUED.  WHAT HAPPENS IF YOUR DOG, IN PAIN, BITES THE

                    EMT?  WELL, THE EMT CAN SUE YOU, YOU JUST CAN'T SUE THE EMT; THAT'S

                    WHAT THIS BILL SAYS.  NOW, WHAT IF HE TAKES YOUR AGED DOG OR CAT TO THE

                    VET AND THE VET BILL IS A COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLARS?  AND YOU SAID, YOU

                    KNOW, I LOVE SPOT, BUT NOT THAT MUCH.  THIS BILL DOESN'T ADDRESS THAT

                    ISSUE.

                                 SO BEFORE PEOPLE START CALLING EMTS TO RUSH OVER AND

                    TAKE CARE OF THEIR DOG OR CAT, YOU MIGHT WANT TO GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO

                                         307



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SOME OF THESE OTHER ISSUES AND MAKE SURE, BY THE WAY, THAT THEY SEND A

                    SPARE AMBULANCE BECAUSE IF YOUR NEIGHBOR HAS A HEART ATTACK, YOU

                    SURELY DON'T WANT THE AMBULANCE THAT'S TRANSPORTING YOUR DOG TO THE VET

                    TO HAVE TO STOP AND DUMP YOUR DOG ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD SO THEY CAN

                    PICK UP YOUR NEIGHBOR AND SAVE HIS LIFE.  I'M JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW, I

                    SUPPORT THE BILL, I LOVE THE CONCEPT, LOVE DOGS AND CATS, BUT IT'S, YOU

                    KNOW, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE CHALLENGING THAN WHAT IT MIGHT FIRST APPEAR,

                    THAT'S ALL.

                                 SO I URGE MY LOCAL VOLUNTEER FIREMEN TO BE

                    COMPASSIONATE, BUT REMEMBER THEIR FIRST MISSION IS TO RESCUE HUMANS

                    IN THAT AMBULANCE AND RENDER FIRST AID TO DOGS AND CATS AS A SECONDARY

                    OBLIGATION.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ARE THERE ANY OTHER

                    VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 29, CALENDAR NO. 160, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A04947-B, CALENDAR

                    NO. 160, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, REYES, GRIFFIN, MEEKS, COLTON,

                    ZINERMAN, SIMON, FRONTUS, J. A. GIGLIO, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS.  AN ACT TO

                    AMEND THE PENAL LAW, IN RELATION TO CRIMES INVOLVING THE DEATH OR

                    INJURY OF A WORKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                         308



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 4947-B.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN TO EXPLAIN THE BILL [SIC].

                                 MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  THIS BILL SEEKS TO

                    PROTECT WORKERS FROM CORPORATIONS AND THEIR AGENTS THAT FAIL TO COMPLY

                    WITH SAFETY PROTOCOLS BY AMENDING THE PENAL CODE TO CREATE NEW

                    OFFENSES AND SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASING THE FINES THAT CAN BE IMPOSED

                    UPON A CORPORATE DEFENDANT CONVICTED OF CERTAIN CRIMES THAT LEAD TO AN

                    INJURY OR DEATH OF A WORKER.

                                 THIS BILL IS NOT A PUNITIVE BILL, BUT A DETERRENT TO HAVE

                    CORPORATIONS PAY ATTENTION TO SAFETY AND STOP HAVING WORKERS KILLED.

                    CONSTRUCTION IS A DANGEROUS BUSINESS, AND THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

                    A WORKER DYING IN AN ACCIDENT AND A WORKER BEING KILLED BY ACTIONS

                    UNDERTAKEN BY THEIR EMPLOYER.  THIS BILL WOULD ISSUE A FINE FOR

                    CONVICTED MISDEMEANOR, 300,000 TO 500,000, AND FOR CONVICTED OF

                    FELONY, 500,000 TO 1 MILLION.

                                 CARLOS' LAW IS NAMED FOR 22-YEAR-OLD CARLOS

                    MONCAYO, AN ECUADORIAN IMMIGRANT WHO WAS BURIED ALIVE AT A

                    CONSTRUCTION SITE IN NEW YORK CITY, MEAT PACKING DISTRICT IN APRIL

                    2015 WHILE WORKING IN AN UN-REENFORCED 14-FOOT-DEEP TRENCH THAT HAD

                                         309



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BEEN CITED BY SAFETY INSPECTORS.  THE WALLS OF THE TRENCH COLLAPSED ON

                    CARLOS, WHO WAS PRONOUNCED DEAD ON THE SCENE.  THE SAFETY VIOLATIONS

                    THAT LED TO CARLOS' DEATH WAS HARCO CONSTRUCTION IN CONJUNCTION WITH

                    SKY MATERIALS.  HE WAS WORKING TO ACHIEVE THE AMERICAN DREAM, AND

                    ALL OF THAT HAS ENDED.  AND I CAN TELL YOU FROM FIRSTHAND AS A HAITIAN

                    IMMIGRANT, AS THE DAUGHTER OF A HAITIAN IMMIGRANT, MY BROTHER, TOO,

                    HAD EXPERIENCED ALMOST DYING, FALLING OFF SEVEN STORIES OF A SCAFFOLD,

                    AND NEVER BEEN ABLE TO RECOVER.  HE'S DISABLED AND UNEMPLOYED.

                                 THE CURRENT $10,000 PENALTY FOR WORKERS BEING KILLED

                    OR INJURED IS NOT SUFFICIENT, IT'S NOT SUFFICIENT FOR MY BROTHER AND

                    CERTAINLY NOT SUFFICIENT FOR THE DEATH OF CARLOS MONCAYO.  IN THE LAST

                    DECADE, THERE HAS BEEN OVER 500 DEATHS, CONSTRUCTION WORKERS, DEATH-

                    RELATED CASES; 263 SINCE THE BILL WAS FIRST INTRODUCED BY FRANCISCO

                    MOYA.  MR. SPEAKER, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A PUNITIVE BILL; INSTEAD, IT'S A BILL

                    THAT WOULD DETER CORPORATIONS, EMPLOYERS FOR BEING NEGLIGENT AND

                    RECKLESS, CAUSING WORKERS TO BE KILLED AT THESE CONSTRUCTION SITES.  I

                    WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO SO

                    AS WELL.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MS. BICHOTTE

                    HERMELYN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 CALENDAR NO. 365, PAGE 38, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08190-A, CALENDAR

                                         310



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NO. 365, WEPRIN, GIBBS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO ALLOWING A TELEPHONE CALL PRIOR TO AN INCARCERATED

                    INDIVIDUAL'S TRANSFER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    WEPRIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON SENATE PRINT 402-B.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

                    IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THIS WILL BE A

                    PARTY VOTE WITH THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE GENERALLY IN THE NEGATIVE.

                    OBVIOUSLY THOSE WHO WANT TO VOTE IN FAVOR CAN DO SO ON THE FLOOR OR BY

                    CALLING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  AND I WILL EXPLAIN IN A MOMENT

                    WHY MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL BE OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION.  THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO PRETTY MUCH BE IN FAVOR

                    OF THIS LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD CHOOSE TO

                    BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY

                                         311



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    LEADER'S OFFICE.  WE WILL MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. WEPRIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. WEPRIN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  THIS BILL

                    MAY SEEM LIKE A SIMPLE BILL, BUT AS CHAIR OF CORRECTION, I'M OFTEN

                    CONTACTED BY FAMILIES OF INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS WHO CANNOT LOCATE

                    THEIR LOVED ONE BECAUSE THEY WERE TRANSFERRED AND NO ONE FROM DOCS

                    HAD NOTIFIED THEM THAT THE INDIVIDUAL WAS BEING TRANSFERRED, AND THERE

                    WAS A CERTAIN SECRECY WITH IT.  SO IT SEEMS TO BE A VERY REASONABLE

                    REQUEST TO ALLOW THE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL TO MAKE A PHONE CALL TO

                    THEIR LOVED ONES TO LET THEM KNOW WHERE THEY'RE BEING TRANSFERRED TO.

                    IT PROVIDES, YOU KNOW, SANITY, STATE OF MIND TO THE FAMILIES AND IT'S A

                    REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION.  AND I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND PROUDLY

                    VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. WEPRIN IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  UNDER CURRENT LAW,

                    AN INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL WHO IS TRANSFERRED TO A DIFFERENT FACILITY IS

                    ENTITLED TO A PHONE CALL WITHIN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVING AT THE NEW

                    FACILITY.  THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE DOCS TO PROVIDE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR

                    A PHONE CALL BEFORE THE TRANSFER EXCEPT UNDER EXCEPTIONAL

                    CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THERE'S AN UNACCEPTABLE RISK TO THE SAFETY AND

                                         312



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SECURITY OF THE STAFF.  AND THEN WHEN THERE IS SUCH AN EXCEPTIONAL

                    CIRCUMSTANCE, IT HAS TO BE IMMEDIATELY DOCUMENTED.

                                 WELL, OUR CORRECTIONAL STAFF HAVE A REALLY DIFFICULT AND

                    CHALLENGING JOB AND IT'S ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL TO THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF

                    OUR CORRECTIONAL STAFFS THAT WE MINIMIZE ALL THEIR RISK.  AND THE NUMBER

                    OF ASSAULTS ON OUR CORRECTIONAL STAFF CONTINUE TO GO UP, AND IT'S REALLY,

                    REALLY TROUBLESOME.  AND SO THIS BILL DOESN'T SAY THAT YOU DON'T GET A

                    PHONE CALL IF THERE'S A RISK, IT HAS TO BE AN UNACCEPTABLE RISK AND IT HAS

                    TO BE EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES.  AND THAT'S NOT THE CORRECT STANDARD

                    FOR US TO APPLY WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE LIFE AND SAFETY OF OUR

                    CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS.  AND WHEN A PRISONER IS TRANSPORTED FROM ONE

                    FACILITY TO ANOTHER, THERE ARE INHERENT RISKS BECAUSE YOU'RE OUTSIDE THE

                    CONFINES OF THAT PRISON, YOU'RE IN A VEHICLE.  THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THE

                    VEHICLE COULD BE STOPPED OR ATTACKED OR AMBUSHED, OR AN INMATE COULD

                    ESCAPE IS DRAMATICALLY HIGHER.

                                 AND SO FOR MOST OF MY COLLEAGUES, WE WANT TO PUT THE

                    LIFE AND SAFETY OF OUR CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS FIRST RECOGNIZING, AS THE

                    SPONSOR DID, THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTIFY THE FAMILIES IMMEDIATELY, AND

                    THE CURRENT LAW HAS THE CORRECT BALANCE BY REQUIRING THAT THAT PHONE

                    CALL BE MADE AND AVAILABLE WITHIN 24 HOURS AFTER THE ARRIVAL RATHER THAN

                    BEFORE WHERE SOME INMATES WILL TIP OFF THEIR RELATIVES WHEN THEY'RE

                    MOVING.  FOR THAT REASON, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. MEEKS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                         313



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. MEEKS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR AN

                    OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I THINK -- I RISE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  I

                    SUPPORT THIS BILL.  AND I THINK WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THESE ARE

                    INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS.  THEY ARE THE FAMILY MEMBERS, THEY ARE THE

                    LOVED ONES OF OTHERS.  AND IN THIS PROCESS, YOU ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER

                    THE FACT THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS SET UP IN A MANNER WHICH PEOPLE

                    TRAVEL ACROSS THE STATE IN ORDER TO VISIT LOVED ONES WHO MAY BE

                    INCARCERATED.  SO YOU HAVE MAY HAVE AN INSTANCE WHERE A FAMILY

                    MEMBER HAS SAVED RESOURCES TO VISIT SOMEONE ACROSS THE STATE AND GO

                    TO THE FACILITY TO FIND OUT THAT THEY'RE NO LONGER THERE.  AND IT IS ALSO A

                    SAFETY MEASURE FOR INDIVIDUALS TO KNOW WHERE THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS

                    ARE AND WHERE THEY'RE BEING TRANSFERRED TO.  SO I RISE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. MEEKS IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GIBBS.

                                 MR. GIBBS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I RISE IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE AS WELL, AND I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE BILL -- AND I

                    WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE BILL.  IT'S NECESSARY THAT WE NOTIFY THE

                    INDIVIDUAL'S FAMILIES FOR THE INDIVIDUAL INCARCERATED, WHETHER IT BE

                    PRIOR TO BEING TRANSFERRED, BECAUSE LIKE MEMBER MEEKS SAID, THERE ARE

                    FAMILY MEMBERS WHO ARE TRAVELING FAR, AND IN MANY CASES I WENT TO A

                    PRISON AND THE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL WAS NOT THERE.  IT'S A LOT OF

                    RESOURCES, IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY AND SINCE TAKING THIS SEAT, I VISITED

                    NINE PRISONS AND THESE ARE ONE OF THE SITUATIONS WHERE NO FAMILY

                                         314



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    MEMBERS ARE NOTIFIED ABOUT BEING TRANSFERRED OR OTHER INCARCERATED

                    INDIVIDUALS NO LONGER AT THAT FACILITY.  SO I RISE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I

                    THANK ASSEMBLYMEMBER WEPRIN FOR THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GIBBS IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GIGLIO.

                                 MR. GIGLIO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT'S HERE IS SAFETY AND SECURITY.

                    AND WHEN THOSE PHONE CALLS ARE MADE AFTER THEY ARRIVE AT THEIR

                    DESTINATION, THEY'RE ASSURED THEY GET THERE SAFE AND SECURE.  THE SECOND

                    PART OF THIS IS WHEN WE DID CHAPTER CORRECTIONS ABOUT WHY THOSE PHONE

                    CALLS MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN MADE, A LOT OF OUR INCARCERATED PERSON'S

                    CHOICE ON WHO THEY'RE GOING TO CALL, AND IT'S NOT ALWAYS THEIR FAMILY.

                    SO WE CAN'T LEGISLATE WHO THEY'RE GOING TO CALL, BUT WE CAN KEEP THEM

                    SAFE AND THAT'S WHY I WILL BE VOTING NO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 MRS. GALEF TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MRS. GALEF:  YES, I'D JUST LIKE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                    I HAD A REALLY INTERESTING EXPERIENCE THIS WEEKEND.  I SPENT ALL SUNDAY

                    AT GREENE COUNTY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY.  I HAVE A FRIEND WHO HAD A

                    FOSTER CHILD, OR ADOPTED A CHILD WHO ENDED UP THERE AND I, FRANKLY,

                    BECAUSE I WANTED TO TAKE MY FRIEND WHO ACTUALLY HAD CANCER AND WAS

                    ON A BREATHING TUBE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, THERE SO I COULD ALLOW HER TO

                    EXPERIENCE THAT HUG THAT SHE HAD FOR HER FOSTER CHILD.  BUT IT WAS SO

                    INTERESTING FOR ME TO SEE PEOPLE THAT HAD COME FROM ROCHESTER, THEY

                                         315



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    HAD SPENT THREE HOURS TO GET TO THE PRISON.  WE HAD SPENT TWO HOURS TO

                    GET THERE.  THERE WERE PROBABLY OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAD SPENT MANY

                    MORE HOURS TO BE ABLE TO COME AND TAKE CARE OF THEIR LOVED ONES.  WE

                    SAT IN THE VISITOR ROOM, YOU COULD SEE PEOPLE HUGGING AND CHATTING AND

                    SO ON.  AND IT IS TERRIBLE THAT PEOPLE ARE THERE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE

                    WANT TO BE SURE THAT WHEN YOU GO THERE AS A VISITOR THAT YOU CAN GET IN.

                    JUST THINK OF TRAVELING THREE HOURS AND FINDING OUT THAT YOUR LOVED ONE

                    IS SOMEWHERE ELSE AND YOU DON'T KNOW IT?

                                 SO I THINK IT'S ONLY RIGHT THAT WE ALLOW CONNECTIONS

                    BETWEEN THE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY OR THE PRISON AS TO WHERE THAT

                    INDIVIDUAL IS.  AND THIS IS JUST A GOOD BILL, IT JUST MAKES SENSE.  AND I

                    THINK IT MAKES SENSE FOR THE CORRECTION OFFICERS THAT ARE THERE, TOO, THAT

                    ARE TRYING TO DO THEIR JOB AND THEY KNOW THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE ENGAGED

                    WITH INDIVIDUALS THAT THEY CARE ABOUT THAT HOPEFULLY THEY WILL BE BETTER

                    RESIDENTS OF THE FACILITY.  IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING EXPERIENCE.  I WOULD

                    SUGGEST -- I HAVE BEEN AT SING SING, YOU KNOW THAT, FOR MANY, MANY

                    TIMES, BUT NOT TO VISIT AN INDIVIDUAL, AND I WAS VERY, VERY -- IT WAS

                    DIFFICULT TO DO.  THANK YOU.  I WILL BE VOTING YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. GALEF IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 42, CALENDAR NO. 479, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08902, CALENDAR NO.

                                         316



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    479, WEPRIN, O'DONNELL, AUBRY, WALKER, GIBBS.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    CORRECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO CERTIFICATES OF RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 8902.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

                    IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS.  THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT

                    CAN VOTE HERE ON THE FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY LEADER'S

                    OFFICE.  AND I WILL PROVIDE A BRIEF EXPLANATION WHY MANY OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES ARE OPPOSED TO THIS IN A MOMENT, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THIS, AGAIN, IS A VOTE THAT GENERALLY DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO

                    BE IN SUPPORT OF; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME COLLEAGUES WHO CHOOSE

                    TO BE AN EXCEPTION, AND THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO EITHER PUSH THEIR BUTTON

                    IN THE CHAMBERS AND/OR CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND I WILL

                    MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                         317



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  IF AN INDIVIDUAL IS

                    CONVICTED OF VARIOUS OFFENSES, THERE ARE SOME POSITIONS THEY CANNOT

                    THEN OCCUPY; FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN'T GET A LIQUOR LICENSE IF YOU HAVE

                    CERTAIN CONVICTIONS, OR CERTAIN OTHER LICENSES OR PRIVILEGES.  AND THE

                    ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET SUCH A LICENSE IS TO GET A CERTIFICATE OF RELIEF FROM

                    DISABILITIES.  THAT CERTIFICATE OF RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES CAN BE ISSUED BY

                    THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES OR BY A COURT UPON A FINDING

                    THAT YOU HAVE COMPLETED YOUR SENTENCE AND THAT YOU ARE AN ELIGIBLE

                    OFFENDER, AND THAT THE GRANTING OF THE CERTIFICATE IS CONSISTENT WITH THE

                    REHABILITATION AND HELPFUL, AND CONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC SAFETY.

                                 UNDER CURRENT LAW, THE ISSUANCE OF THAT CERTIFICATE OF

                    RELIEF OF DISABILITIES IS DISCRETIONARY.  THIS BILL WOULD MAKE IT

                    MANDATORY.  AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT SOUND

                    DISCRETION CAN ENSURE THAT THE CERTIFICATE OF RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES IS

                    ONLY ISSUED TO THOSE WHO QUALIFY AND ARE SAFE FOR THOSE OCCUPATIONS

                    THAT THEY'LL THEN BE APPLYING FOR AND NOT AUTOMATICALLY GRANTED UPON

                    COMPLETION OF THEIR PRISON SENTENCE.  FOR THAT REASON, I WILL BE VOTING

                    AGAINST THIS BECAUSE I THINK SOME DISCRETIONARY REVIEW IS APPROPRIATE

                    IN THIS SITUATION.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                         318



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 PAGE 21, CALENDAR NO. 24, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00349-B, CALENDAR

                    NO. 24, JACOBSON, OTIS, SAYEGH.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE MUNICIPAL

                    HOME RULE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE DEFINITION OF "POPULATION" FOR

                    PURPOSES OF PROVIDING SUBSTANTIALLY EQUAL WEIGHT FOR THE POPULATION OF

                    THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENT IN THE ALLOCATION OF REPRESENTATION IN THE LOCAL

                    LEGISLATIVE BODY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AN EXPLANATION, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  AN EXPLANATION IS

                    REQUESTED, MR. JACOBSON.

                                 MR. JACOBSON:  THANK YOU.  THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE,

                    BUT IMPORTANT BILL.  THIS BILL CODIFIES EXISTING CASE LAW WITH RESPECT TO

                    REDISTRICTING AND MAKES IT CLEAR THAT THE DEFINITION OF "POPULATION" FOR

                    PURPOSE OF REDISTRICTING FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND COUNTIES SHALL MEAN

                    RESIDENTS.  THIS BILL MODIFIES SECTION 10 AND SECTION 34 OF THE

                    MUNICIPAL HOME RULE LAW.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 349-B.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

                    IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBER

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                         319



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED FOR THE REASONS I WILL EXPLAIN IN A

                    MOMENT, BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT SHOULD VOTE IN FAVOR HERE ON THE

                    FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

                    OF LEGISLATION.  THERE MAY BE SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES WHO WOULD

                    CHOOSE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD CONTACT THE MAJORITY LEADER'S

                    OFFICE, I WILL MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.  THANK YOU,

                    SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THIS LEGISLATION

                    REMOVES ANY REFERENCE TO CITIZENS IN TERMS OF DETERMINING HOW

                    ELECTION DISTRICTS ON THE LOCAL LEVEL SHOULD BE REAPPORTIONED.  I POINT

                    OUT THAT OUR NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION IN ARTICLE II, SO YOU DON'T

                    HAVE TO READ TOO FAR INTO IT, THE FIRST SECTION REFERS TO, EVERY CITIZEN

                    SHALL BE ENTITLED TO VOTE.  NOW, I RECOGNIZE THAT IN SOME AREAS THE

                    NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CITIZENS CAN BE SIGNIFICANT; IN FACT, I SAW

                    THAT THE CITY OF NEW YORK WAS TRYING TO PASS LEGISLATION TO ENABLE NOT

                    ONLY NON-CITIZENS, BUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, OR UNDOCUMENTED

                    IMMIGRANTS, TO VOTE AND THEY HAD ESTIMATED THERE WERE AS MANY AS

                                         320



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    800,000 WHO WERE THERE.  BUT I THINK THE FIRST AND PRIMARY FUNCTION OF

                    THE NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE TO REPRESENT NEW YORK

                    STATE RESIDENTS WHO ARE CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENTS HERE IN OUR STATE.

                    AND LIKEWISE, THAT IF YOU FOCUS ON ONE PERSON/ONE VOTE CONCEPT AND

                    YOUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT CITIZENS WHO ARE LAWFULLY IN YOUR

                    COMMUNITY, WE SHOULD NOT ELIMINATE THE REFERENCE TO CITIZENSHIP IN

                    TERMS OF LOCAL REDISTRICTING.

                                 AND FOR THAT REASON, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING IT BOTH

                    BECAUSE I THINK IT'S INCONSISTENT WITH THE LETTER AND SPIRIT OF OUR OWN

                    STATE CONSTITUTION, BUT ALSO INCONSISTENT WITH THE CONCEPT THAT

                    REPRESENTATION IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE BASED ON EQUAL

                    REPRESENTATION OF THOSE WHO ARE LAWFULLY HERE AND ARE CITIZENS.  THANK

                    YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. JACOBSON TO

                    EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. JACOBSON:  THE CURRENT STATE OF THE LAW

                    FOLLOWS A NUMBER OF CASES THAT HAVE COME FROM THE SUPREME COURT

                    AND IN 1964 IN THE CASE OF REYNOLDS V. SIMS, THE COURT HELD THAT THE

                    EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE REQUIRES THAT BOTH SEATS -- THAT THE SEATS IN

                    BOTH HOUSES OF A BICAMERAL STATE LEGISLATURE, SUCH AS WE HAVE - WE

                    HAVE AN ASSEMBLY AND A STATE SENATE - MUST BE APPORTIONED ON A TOTAL

                    POPULATION BASIS.  THAT'S WHAT WE DO.  WE, BEFORE WE REDISTRICT, WE USE

                    ALL OF THE POPULATION OF THE ENTIRE STATE.  AND THAT'S -- AND WE DO THAT

                    AND THAT'S WHAT THE LAW IS NOW.

                                 AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THAT WE REPRESENT

                                         321



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN OUR RESPECTIVE DISTRICTS.  WE REPRESENT ADULTS

                    AND CHILDREN, THOSE WHO ARE VOTING AGE AND THOSE WHO ARE NOT.  WE

                    REPRESENT THOSE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TO REGISTER TO VOTE, BUT CHOOSE NOT TO,

                    AND OF THOSE WHO ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE, WE REPRESENT THOSE WHO SOME

                    WILL VOTE AND SOME WHO DO NOT VOTE.  WE REPRESENT CITIZENS AND

                    NON-CITIZENS.  IN SHORT, WE REPRESENT ALL THE RESIDENTS IN OUR DISTRICTS

                    AND WHEN IT COMES TO REDISTRICTING OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE, WE USE THE

                    NUMBER OF RESIDENTS IN THE STATE.  THIS BILL MAKES SURE THAT LOCAL

                    GOVERNMENTS DO THE SAME AND USE ALL THE RESIDENTS IN THEIR

                    MUNICIPALITY.

                                 SO WITH THAT, I VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE BILL.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ASSEMBLYMAN

                    JACOBSON IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 18, RULES REPORT NO. 513, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A10425, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 513, COMMITTEE ON RULES (ABBATE, SILLITTI, ENGLEBRIGHT, THIELE,

                    BRAUNSTEIN, JONES, COLTON, GUNTHER, OTIS, BURDICK, SANTABARBARA,

                    ABINANTI, DINOWITZ, GRIFFIN, LAVINE, WOERNER, STERN, JEAN-PIERRE,

                    STIRPE).  AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW AND THE LABOR LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO CLARIFYING THE VESTING OF RETIREE HEALTH INSURANCE WITHIN

                    COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                         322



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  ON THE BILL, SIR.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THE COURTS HAVE ALMOST

                    UNIVERSALLY, FOR GOING BACK DECADES OR CENTURIES, HELD THAT WHEN THERE'S

                    A WRITTEN CONTRACT BETWEEN PARTIES, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE FOUR CORNERS

                    OF THE CONTRACT TO DECIDE WHAT THE PARTIES INTENDED TO DO.  AND AS LONG

                    AS A CONTRACT IS REASONABLY CLEAR, THE COURTS WOULD NOT ALLOW PEOPLE

                    AFTER THEY SIGNED A CONTRACT TO GO TO COURT AND SAY, HEY, THAT'S NOT

                    REALLY WHAT I MEANT, OR, THERE SHOULD BE MORE THINGS COVERED BY THIS

                    CONTRACT.  AND THAT RULE WHICH SAID IF YOU WANT TO BE CLEAR, YOU HAVE A

                    WRITTEN CONTRACT, WRITE IT DOWN AND WE WILL NOT CONSIDER EXTRINSIC

                    VERBAL EVIDENCE TO CHANGE WHAT'S IN THE WRITING.  AND IT'S CALLED A PAROL

                    EVIDENCE RULE, PAROL MEANING VERBAL.

                                 SO IN 2020, THE NEW YORK STATE COURT OF APPEALS

                    APPLIED THAT LONGSTANDING RULE OF CONTRACT INTERPRETATION TO COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING AGREEMENTS AS THEY RELATED TO LIFETIME HEALTH INSURANCE FOR

                    RETIREES.  AND THEY SAID YOU HAVE TO READ THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

                    AGREEMENT, IT'S A WRITTEN AGREEMENT, THE WORDS WERE NEGOTIATED, THE

                    PARTIES WERE ALMOST ALWAYS REPRESENTED BY COMPETENT LAWYERS, AND

                    THEY SAID -- THE COURT OF APPEALS SAID YOU DON'T GET LIFETIME HEALTH

                    BENEFITS AS A RETIREE UNLESS THE CONTRACT SAYS YOU DO.  AND THE ONLY

                    TIME YOU CAN HAVE ORAL TESTIMONY THAT GOES BEYOND THE CONTRACT TERMS

                    IS IF THE CONTRACT WAS, QUOTE, "SUFFICIENTLY AMBIGUOUS AS TO REQUIRE

                    ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY."

                                         323



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 AND WHAT THIS BILL SAYS IS NO, EVEN IF IT'S NOT

                    AMBIGUOUS, EVEN IF IT'S NOT CLEARLY COVERED, YOU CAN INTRODUCE ORAL

                    TESTIMONY.  AND THE PROBLEM WITH IT IS THAT IT REMOVES THE CONFIDENCE

                    THAT THE PARTIES HAVE THAT THEIR WRITTEN AGREEMENT ACTUALLY DEFINES THE

                    WRITTEN TERMS AND CONDITIONS, AND IN THIS AREA OF LIFETIME RETIREE HEALTH

                    INSURANCE, IT OPENS A POSSIBILITY THAT PEOPLE CAN CLAIM THAT EVEN THOUGH

                    THE CONTRACT DIDN'T COVER IT, THEY MEANT TO HAVE LIFETIME HEALTH

                    INSURANCE.

                                 NOW, MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND I HAVE RECEIVED

                    LOBBYING EFFORTS FROM PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING AT RETIREMENT BECAUSE

                    HAVING LIFETIME RETIREE IS A HUGE BENEFIT, OF COURSE.  THE OLDER I GET, THE

                    MORE VALUABLE IT LOOKS.  BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO REMEMBER IT'S A HUGE COST

                    TO OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND SCHOOLS AND OTHERS, AND IN MY PARTICULAR

                    DISTRICT, THIS LIFETIME RETIREMENT BENEFIT ALMOST DROVE THE CITY OF

                    JAMESTOWN INTO BANKRUPTCY.

                                 SO I THINK WE SHOULD STICK WITH STANDARD CONTRACT

                    INTERPRETATIONS, REQUIRE AND EXPECT THE PARTIES WHO ARE REPRESENTED BY

                    ATTORNEYS TO PUT WHAT THEY MEAN AND MEAN WHAT THEY SAY WHEN THEY

                    WRITE THE CONTRACT, AND TO ALLOW PAROL EVIDENCE, OR VERBAL EVIDENCE,

                    ONLY WHEN THERE'S AN AMBIGUITY THAT NEEDS THAT ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE.

                    FOR THAT REASON, I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST IT, BUT I RECOGNIZE THAT MANY OF

                    MY COLLEAGUES WILL WANT TO SUPPORT IT.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                         324



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 10425.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 30, CALENDAR NO. 163, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05108, CALENDAR NO.

                    163, ABBATE, COLTON, BARNWELL, LAWLER, SILLITTI, SAYEGH, J. A. GIGLIO,

                    ZEBROWSKI, TANNOUSIS.  AN ACT IN RELATION TO AFFECTING THE HEALTH

                    INSURANCE BENEFITS AND CONTRIBUTIONS OF CERTAIN RETIRED PUBLIC

                    EMPLOYEES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THE CLERK WILL RECORD

                    THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY PRINT 5108.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY MEMBER

                    WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE POSITION

                    IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS

                    PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE

                                         325



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    REASONS I'LL EXPLAIN IN A MOMENT.  THOSE WHO WISH TO SUPPORT IT CAN

                    CERTAINLY VOTE YES HERE ON THE FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING OUR LEADER'S

                    OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, THE

                    DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

                    OF LEGISLATION TO ASSURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTH INSURANCE;

                    HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW OF US WHO WANT TO BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY

                    SHOULD FEEL FREE TO EITHER VOTE IN CHAMBERS AND/OR CALL THE MAJORITY

                    LEADER'S OFFICE AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY:  THANK YOU, MA'AM.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THIS BILL MAKES IT

                    ILLEGAL FOR PUBLIC EMPLOYERS TO DIMINISH THE HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS

                    PROVIDED TO RETIREES AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS LAW.  AND THIS

                    CREATES TREMENDOUS PROBLEMS BECAUSE A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES ARE BEING

                    -- SEEING THOSE COSTS ESCALATING WAY BEYOND WHAT THEY HAD EVER

                    PLANNED FOR AND, AS A RESULT, MANY MUNICIPALITIES ARE NEGOTIATING WITH

                    THEIR RETIREES TO HAVE THEM LEAVE A 100 PERCENT LOCALLY-FUNDED RETIREE

                    PLAN OR HEALTH PLAN -- RATHER, A HEALTH PLAN AND INSTEAD GO INTO A

                    MEDICAID SUPPLEMENTAL PLAN.  AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THESE RETIREE

                    HEALTH BENEFITS BROUGHT THE CITY OF JAMESTOWN RIGHT TO THE EDGE OF

                                         326



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BANKRUPTCY, AND THEY ADDRESSED IT BY PROVIDING THEIR RETIREES WITH A

                    SUPPLEMENTAL MEDICAID PLAN, OR MEDICARE PLAN, SO THEY ENDED UP WITH

                    THE EQUIVALENT COVERAGE AT A FRACTION OF THE COST.

                                 THIS BILL WOULD MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR MUNICIPALITIES TO

                    IMPLEMENT THOSE TYPES OF INNOVATIVE COST-CUTTING MEASURES THAT SHIFT

                    THE COST FROM THE LOCAL TAXPAYER ON TO MEDICARE AND WOULD, THEREFORE,

                    RESULT IN MUCH HIGHER TAXES FOR A LOT OF OUR MUNICIPALITIES WITH NO

                    CORRESPONDING BENEFIT FOR THE RETIREES.  FOR THAT REASON, I CAN'T SUPPORT

                    IT AND RECOMMEND AGAINST IT TO MY COLLEAGUES.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. GOODELL IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  PLEASE

                    RECORD MY COLLEAGUES MR. DURSO, MR. GANDOLFO, AND MR. RA IN THE

                    AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  SO NOTED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  ALSO RECORD MY

                    COLLEAGUES MR. SMITH -- MR. SCHMITT AND MR. BRABENEC.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  SO NOTED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND JODI GIGLIO, AND LET'S NOT

                    FORGET MR. MIKULIN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    GOODELL, SO NOTED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                         327



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. WALSH TO

                    EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  ACTUALLY, MR. SPEAKER, I'M NOT GOING

                    TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE, BUT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO PLEASE RECORD MR.

                    TANNOUSIS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS BILL.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 22, CALENDAR NO. 29, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A00382, CALENDAR NO.

                    29, PAULIN, L. ROSENTHAL, JACOBSON, COLTON, QUART, GOTTFRIED, VANEL,

                    HEVESI, FAHY, LUPARDO, KELLES, WALLACE, LUNSFORD, FORREST, GALLAGHER,

                    STIRPE, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, CYMBROWITZ, REYES, SAYEGH, LAVINE,

                    MAMDANI.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE CREATION, OPERATION, AND DUTIES OF NATURAL ORGANIC

                    REDUCTION FACILITIES AS CEMETERY CORPORATIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. PAULIN, AN

                    EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  OF COURSE, I'D LOVE TO.  THE BILL

                    PROVIDES FOR THE CREMATION -- A CREATION, OPERATION AND DUTIES OF

                    NATURAL, ORGANIC REDUCTION FACILITIES BY A CEMETERY CORPORATION.  JUST SO

                    YOU KNOW WHAT NATURAL ORGANIC PRODUCTION IS, IT'S THE CONTAINED

                    ACCELERATED CONVERSION OF HUMAN REMAINS TO SOIL OVER ROUGHLY A

                    30-DAY PERIOD.

                                         328



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. LEMONDES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. PAULIN,

                    WILL YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I'D BE HAPPY TO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE THAT AT

                    THIS LATE HOUR.  COULD YOU DESCRIBE THE PROCESS IN A LITTLE MORE DETAIL

                    JUST SO -- JUST SO I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THE HUMAN

                    BODY IN THIS SITUATION?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SURE.  SO ESSENTIALLY THE REMAINS ARE

                    PLACED IN AN ABOVE GROUND CAPSULE CONTAINING A MIXTURE OF ALFALFA

                    LEAVES, WOOD CHIPS AND BRASS, AND GENTLY AND NATURALLY CONVERT TO SOIL

                    OVER A PERIOD OF 30 DAYS.  IT'S SIMILAR TO BURIAL EXCEPT ONCE YOU PUT

                    FORMALDEHYDE ON THE BODY, IT TAKES LONGER TO DECOMPOSE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  SO WHAT -- WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF

                    THIS?  I'M STRUGGLING WITH THE -- TO ME THAT -- THAT SEEMS AS IF IT'S

                    DESECRATING THE HUMAN BODY --

                                 MS. PAULIN:  UM, IN FACT --

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  -- DEPENDING ON WHAT ONE'S --

                    WHAT ONE'S FAITH MIGHT BE.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, LET'S TAKE THE THREE -- THE TWO

                    OPTIONS THAT ARE ALLOWED BY LAW.  ONE IS PUTTING THE BODY IN A COFFIN

                                         329



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    WITH A LOT OF CHEMICALS AND BURYING IT, AND THEN IT DECOMPOSES OVER A

                    PERIOD OF TIME AND THE FORMALDEHYDE CREATES A LOT OF POLLUTION

                    UNDERGROUND.  THE REQUIREMENT OF A CASKET IS A LOT OF MAN HOURS AND A

                    LOT OF NATURAL RESOURCES, AND IT'S A LOT OF LAND.  THE SECOND OPTION IS

                    CREMATION.  CREMATION YOU ESSENTIALLY BURN THE BODY, WHICH REQUIRES A

                    LOT OF FOSSIL FUELS AND IS VERY DETRIMENTAL TO THE ENVIRONMENT.  THIS

                    THIRD OPTION IS SIMILAR TO BURIAL EXCEPT WITHOUT THE FORMALDEHYDE AND

                    IT'S ABOVE GROUND.  SO IT'S -- IT'S -- I THINK IF YOU WATCH OLD MOVIES YOU

                    CAN THINK OF THE TOMB THAT YOU PUT THE BODY IN AND IT DECOMPOSES, BUT

                    IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO UNDERGROUND EXCEPT WITHOUT THE CHEMICALS AND

                    WITHOUT THE LAND SPACE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  SO -- AND THANK YOU FOR THAT.  IF

                    YOU DON'T MIND, I'M GOING TO KEEP GOING ON THIS.  IF I UNDERSTAND YOU

                    CORRECTLY THERE IS NO FORMALDEHYDE, NO EMBALMING FLUID USED

                    WHATSOEVER IN THIS.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  OKAY.  WOULD THIS BE A

                    REQUIREMENT OR AN OPTION FOR THOSE FAMILIES?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  ALL -- THIS WOULD BE AN OPTION.  IT

                    WOULD JUST BE A CHOICE OF THE FAMILY WHO CERTAINLY COULD USE ANY OF

                    THE OTHER TWO METHODS.  BOTH ARE -- WE'RE NOT MAKING ANY OF THEM

                    ILLEGAL, WE'RE JUST LEGALIZING THIS ONE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  SO IS THE -- IS THE PRIMARY DRIVER

                    SPACE, OR ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS OR BOTH?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I THINK IT'S BOTH.  AND TO GIVE FAMILIES

                                         330



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ANOTHER OPTION.  WHEN THIS BILL PASSES, WHICH WE EXPECT IT WILL IN THE

                    SENATE AS WELL AND SIGNED INTO LAW, WE WOULD BE THE FIFTH STATE TO

                    ALLOW THIS, SO IT'S A GROWING TREND IN THE UNITED STATES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  I DISAGREE ON THE SPACE

                    COMPONENT OF THAT.  WE LOST 319,000 PEOPLE IN NEW YORK LAST YEAR, WE

                    LOST 1.2 MILLION OVER THE LAST DECADE, OUR POPULATION IS DECREASING, IT'S

                    NOT INCREASING, AND THE MAIN RELIGIONS AS FAR AS I HAVE INFORMATION ON,

                    THE CATHOLIC CONFERENCE, THE JEWISH FAITH AND THE ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN

                    GROUPS VIEW THIS AS DESECRATION OF THE BODY.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, I'VE ONLY RECEIVED ONE NEGATIVE

                    MEMO FROM, YOU KNOW, A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION AND THAT IS THE

                    CATHOLIC CONFERENCE.  AND THE CATHOLIC CONFERENCE SAYS THAT A

                    PROCESS WHEREBY HUMAN REMAINS ARE COMPOSED AND SCATTERED IN A

                    DESIGNATED SCATTERING GARDEN OR AREA IN A CEMETERY FAILS TO SUFFICIENTLY

                    RESPECT THE DIGNITY DUE THE DECEASED.  SO THE QUESTION I WONDERED,

                    BECAUSE I'M NOT CATHOLIC, IS DOES THE CATHOLIC FAITH OBJECT TO

                    CREMATION?

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  I CAN'T ANSWER THAT, I'M NOT -- I'M

                    NOT CATHOLIC.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I DON'T -- I DON'T THINK THEY DO.  AND

                    THE WORDS THAT ARE IN THE LAW FOR CREMATION AND FOR WHAT WE'RE

                    PROPOSING ARE IDENTICAL.  SO I DON'T KNOW WHY ONE TYPE OF BURIAL OR,

                    YOU KNOW, ONE TYPE OF DEALING WITH HUMAN REMAINS WOULD BE CONTRARY

                    TO A RELIGIOUS BELIEF WHEN THE LAW IS IDENTICAL FOR THE OTHER TYPE.  BUT

                    AGAIN, IT'S A CHOICE.  SO IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO USE THIS AS THEIR OPTION

                                         331



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THEY CAN, AND IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T THEY DON'T HAVE TO.  IF I WANT TO BE

                    ABLE TO TAKE SOME OF THE REMAINS AND PLANT A TREE WITH MY REMAINS SO

                    THAT MY FAMILY COULD CHERISH THAT TREE FOREVER AND REMEMBER MY

                    MEMORY, THEN THAT WOULD BE SOME OPTION THAT I COULD USE.  IF SOMEONE

                    BELIEVES THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS CONTRARY TO THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, THEN

                    THEY DO NOT HAVE TO DO THIS OPTION AND THEY CAN GO WITH EITHER

                    CREMATION OR -- OR BURIAL AS WE HAVE IN THE LAW CURRENTLY.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING THAT.

                    DO YOU THINK THAT THIS WOULD IMPACT JOBS AT ALL, PERHAPS, IN THE FUNERAL

                    INDUSTRY ACROSS OUR STATE?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THE -- YOU KNOW, THERE HAS TO BE A

                    TYPE OF -- WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE HUMAN REMAINS SO AS LONG PEOPLE

                    DIE, YOU KNOW, AT THE SAME RATE AS WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE PEOPLE --

                    YOU KNOW, THERE'S -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP THOSE JOBS.  SO I

                    DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S REALLY A JOB ISSUE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING THOSE

                    QUESTIONS.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU.  DUE TO THE

                    OPPOSITION OF THE FUNERAL DIRECTORS ASSOCIATION, THE CATHOLIC FAITH,

                    AND I WILL SPEAK ONLY ON MY OWN FAITH AS AN ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN, THIS IS

                    NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD DO.  I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS.  I WOULD ALSO PUT

                    FORWARD IF THE -- IF THE CONCERN IS OF BURIAL AND SPACE, THERE ARE --

                    CREMATION IS STILL A VIABLE OPTION.  THEY USE WOOL CASKETS AS IS DONE IN

                                         332



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OTHER COUNTRIES WHICH IS COMPLETELY BIODEGRADABLE WITHOUT ANY

                    CHEMICALS IS ALSO AN OPTION AS WELL.  FOR THOSE REASONS, I WOULD NOT

                    SUPPORT THIS AND URGE MY COLLEAGUES NOT TO AS WELL.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY BILL 382.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  BASED ON OUR PRIOR

                    COMMITTEE VOTES, THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS PRIMARILY IN THE

                    NEGATIVE ON THIS, BUT THERE MAY BE SOME COLLEAGUES THAT SUPPORT THIS

                    OPTION.  AND THEY ARE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO USE IT THEMSELVES PROVIDED

                    IT PASSES AND IS SIGNED INTO LAW, AND THEY SHOULD VOTE YES HERE ON THE

                    FLOOR OR BY CONTACTING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

                    OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF US WHO WOULD CHOOSE TO

                    BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO BY CALLING THE

                                         333



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE AND/OR PRESSING THEIR BUTTON IN THE CHAMBERS.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

                    PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUES MR. EICHENSTEIN, MR. BARNWELL AND MR.

                    COLTON IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ITEM.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 32, CALENDAR NO. 194, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A05891-C, CALENDAR

                    NO. 194, JOYNER, SIMON, DICKENS, CARROLL, AUBRY, O'DONNELL,

                    DINOWITZ, FORREST, JACKSON, HEVESI, MITAYNES, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, OTIS,

                    EPSTEIN, KELLES, CRUZ, REYES, ZINERMAN, SEAWRIGHT, PRETLOW,

                    ANDERSON, BURDICK, BURGOS, QUART, L. ROSENTHAL.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE

                    FAMILY COURT ACT AND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    CUSTODIAL INTERROGATION OF JUVENILES BY LAW ENFORCEMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. JOYNER, AN

                    EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  SURE.  THIS BILL -- THIS BILL WOULD

                    PROVIDE FOR ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS AND PROCEDURES WHEN A YOUTH IS

                    TAKEN INTO CUSTODY BY LAW ENFORCEMENT DURING YOUTH INTERROGATIONS.

                                         334



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. JOYNER,

                    WILL YOU YIELD?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU SO MUCH.  SO I'D LIKE TO GET

                    -- I HAVE -- I HAVE A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ACTUALLY, ABOUT THIS, IT'S VERY

                    INTERESTING.  FIRST OF ALL, I NOTICED THAT THIS BILL IS IN A C PRINT.  CAN YOU

                    JUST TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ANY CHANGES THAT WERE MADE IN THE BILL ALONG

                    THE WAY?  BECAUSE SOME OF THE -- SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT -- SOME OF

                    THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE WEIGHED IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER HAVE

                    COMMENTED THAT THE BILL APPEARS TO BE IMPROVED FROM EARLIER VERSIONS

                    IN THEIR VIEWS, SO I'D JUST LIKE TO HEAR THAT FROM YOU.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  I MEAN, YES.  WE TOOK IN FEEDBACK

                    FROM DIFFERENT GROUPS AND WE LANDED ON THE LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE

                    DISCUSSING TODAY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO BASICALLY THE WAY I READ THE

                    BILL IS THAT IT DOES, YOU KNOW, A FEW DIFFERENT THINGS.  THE FIRST HAS TO

                    DO WITH NOTIFYING A PARENT OR PERSON LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE

                    JUVENILE DEFENDANT AT THE MOMENT PRECEDING THE ARREST OR QUESTIONING

                    OF THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT.  CAN YOU JUST TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT PROCESS IS

                    GOING TO BE UNDER -- UNDER THIS LEGISLATION?

                                         335



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  IT CLARIFIES WHAT IMMEDIATE

                    NOTIFICATION IS.  RIGHT NOW, IT'S AMBIGUOUS.  THE BILL MAKES IT CLEAR THAT

                    IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION IS BEFORE THERE'S ANY TRANSPORT OF THE CHILD TO

                    ANOTHER LOCATION.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  AND -- SO IF THE POLICE

                    REASONABLY BELIEVE THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A PARENT OR PERSON LEGALLY

                    RESPONSIBLE AT THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT'S HOME, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO TAKE

                    THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT TO THEIR HOME AND SEE IF A PARENT OR PERSON

                    LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE COMES TO THE DOOR; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.  PRESUMPTION IS TO RELEASE TO THE

                    PARENT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO -- AND THEN WHEN THEY -- SAY

                    THEY GO THERE AND THERE'S A PARENT OR, AND I'LL JUST SAY PLR, PERSON

                    LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE, IS AVAILABLE, THEY COME TO THE DOOR.  IF IT IS A

                    FELONY CHARGE, THEN WHAT HAPPENS IN THAT CASE?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  IF IT'S A DESIGNATED FELONY, YOU KNOW,

                    THEY HAVE DIFFERENT OPTIONS.  THEY CAN TAKE THE CHILD TO THE POLICE

                    STATION, FAMILY COURT, OR MAGISTRATE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OR, WHAT WAS THE LAST?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  MAGISTRATE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OH, MAGISTRATE, OKAY.  NOW, IF IT'S

                    SOMETHING THAT'S NOT A DESIGNATED FELONY, THEY'RE DIRECTED TO ISSUE AN

                    APPEARANCE TICKET AND ALLOW THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT TO REMAIN AT THEIR

                    HOME WITH THEIR PARENT OR PLR, RIGHT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                         336



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO WHAT HAPPENS -- OKAY.  SO

                    IS THERE ANY DETERMINATION THAT'S BEING MADE BY LAW ENFORCEMENT?

                    LET'S SAY THEY GET TO THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT'S HOME AND A PARENT COMES

                    TO THE DOOR WHO IS OBVIOUSLY INTOXICATED, IS OBVIOUSLY IMPAIRED IN

                    SOME WAY OR IS, YOU KNOW, FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS AN UNSUITABLE

                    PERSON TO LEAVE THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT WITH.  UNDER THIS LEGISLATION,

                    MUST THEY STILL DO THAT IF IT'S A -- IF IT'S A NON-FELONY?  DO THEY STILL NEED

                    TO RELEASE WITH AN APPEARANCE TICKET IN THAT INSTANCE?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  SO IF IT'S AN UNSAFE CONDITION,

                    POLICE WILL RETAIN DISCRETION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO

                    RELEASE THE YOUTH AT THEIR HOME.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY, THAT'S GOOD.  SO LET'S SAY THEN

                    THAT -- LET'S SAY IT'S A FELONY, A DESIGNATED FELONY AND INSTEAD OF -- SO IN

                    THAT INSTANCE, DO THEY -- DOES LAW ENFORCEMENT HAVE TO TAKE THE

                    JUVENILE DEFENDANT TO THE HOME FIRST OR MAY THEY TAKE THEM DIRECTLY TO

                    THE POLICE STATION?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  SO IF IT'S A DESIGNATED FAMILY

                    ACT -- FELONY, SORRY.  IF IT'S A DESIGNATED FELONY, YES, THE PRESUMPTION IS

                    TO EITHER TAKE TO THE FAMILY COURT OR THE MAGISTRATE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  BUT BEFORE THEY DO THAT, MUST THEY STILL

                    MAKE ATTEMPTS TO NOTIFY THE PARENT OR PLR?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  AND IF THERE IS NO RESPONSE OR

                    IF THERE IS A RESPONSE, WOULD THE PARENT COME TO THE -- WOULD THE

                    UNDERSTANDING BE THAT THEY WOULD COME TO THE STATION TO JOIN THE

                                         337



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    JUVENILE DEFENDANT AT THE STATION DURING PROCESSING?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  THE PRES -- YOU KNOW, WE

                    WOULD BE PRESUMING THAT THE PARENT OR THE PLR WOULD SHOW UP BUT,

                    YES, THIS BILL IS JUST CLARIFYING THE TIMING OF NOTIFICATION AND GIVING THE

                    PARENTS, YOU KNOW, AWARENESS THAT THEY ARE -- THE CHILD IS IN CUSTODY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AN AWARENESS THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED

                    AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO APPEAR.  IS THERE ANY CONSEQUENCE IF THAT PARENT

                    OR PLR SAYS, YOU KNOW WHAT, THIS IS THE EMPTEENTH TIME THAT THIS KID

                    HAS BEEN IN TROUBLE, I'M WORKING, OR I'M BUSY, OR I'M NOT COMING DOWN

                    THERE.  DOES THAT CHANGE ANYTHING AS WE LOOK THROUGH THE SEQUENCE

                    HERE OF WHAT HAPPENS?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  NO.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO THEY GET TO THE STATION.  AT

                    THAT POINT, WHAT HAPPENS AT THAT POINT, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  IT DEPENDS.  IF IT'S JUST FOR

                    QUESTIONING, IT'S AN INVEST -- YOU KNOW, AN INVESTIGATORY PROCESS THEY

                    CAN, YOU KNOW, ASK QUESTIONS, BUT IF IT'S A CUSTODIAL PROCESS, THAT'S

                    WHERE, YOU KNOW, MIRANDA RIGHTS ARE REQUIRED TO BE READ AND THE

                    CONSULTATION WITH AN ATTORNEY MUST BE PROVIDED TO THE -- TO THE CHILD.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY, THAT'S INTERESTING.  SO THE

                    CONSULTATION WITH THE ATTORNEY THEN ONLY TAKES PLACE IF THERE'S GOING TO

                    BE A CUSTODIAL RESULT.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY, THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW.  I DID NOT

                    GET THAT FROM THE BILL, I APPRECIATE THAT.  SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT

                                         338



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CONSULTATION WITH THE ATTORNEY.  IT CAN BE BY VIDEO CONFERENCE, IT CAN

                    BE BY TELEPHONE, IT CAN BE IN PERSON.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  CORRECT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  DEPENDING UPON THE TIME OF

                    THE NIGHT, WHETHER IT'S A WEEKEND OR A WEEKDAY, IS IT ENVISIONED THAT

                    THERE WOULD BE ATTORNEYS FOR THE CHILDREN THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE OR

                    ON-CALL OR ON STAFF TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THESE TYPES OF SERVICES, OR...

                                 MS. JOYNER:  AFTER CONSULTATION WITH OCA AND

                    LEGAL AID, YES, THIS -- THEY FEEL LIKE THE NEED WILL BE MET.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A

                    BIG STATE HERE AND SOME AREAS ARE PRETTY RURAL AND I KNOW SPEAKING AS

                    AN ATTORNEY FOR THE CHILD MYSELF THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S -- THE CANDLE

                    IS DWINDLING RIGHT NOW.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  AND THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, WE MADE

                    THIS EXPANSIVE LIST OF OPTIONS.  SO AGAIN, PHONE, VIDEO, OR IN PERSON.

                    SO WE, YOU KNOW, MADE IT ENOUGH THAT IT'S FLEXIBLE WHERE OPTIONS ARE

                    AVAILABLE TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE, YOU KNOW, THE

                    ISSUES YOU'RE BRINGING UP.

                                 MS. WALSH:  IS THERE -- IS THERE -- WHAT IF THERE JUST

                    ISN'T ANYBODY IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE, AN ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY

                    AVAILABLE TO CONFER WITH THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT; WHAT HAPPENS THEN?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  THEN STATEMENTS CANNOT BE TAKEN AT

                    THAT POINT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  AND -- OKAY.  SO LET'S SAY THAT

                    THEY'RE ABLE TO PATCH IN THROUGH VIDEO CONFERENCE, SAY, AN ATTORNEY FOR

                                         339



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THE CHILD, AND THAT ATTORNEY HAS A CONSULTATION.  IS THAT A PRIVATE

                    CONSULTATION WITH THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT OR IS IT IN THE PRESENCE OF LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  PRIVATE, YES.  PRIVATE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO LET'S SAY THAT THAT OCCURS AND

                    LET'S SAY THAT THE ATTORNEY ADVISES THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT, DO NOT MAKE

                    ANY STATEMENTS, THAT IS -- I DON'T WANT YOU MAKING ANY STATEMENTS AT

                    ALL.  AND THEY COMPLETE THE CONSULTATION AND THEN THE JUVENILE

                    DEFENDANT SAYS, YEAH, I KNOW THAT THE ATTORNEY SAID THAT, BUT I, HAVING

                    BEEN GIVEN MY MIRANDA RIGHTS, AND EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN MET ON

                    THE MIRANDA RIGHTS, I WANT TO MAKE A VOLUNTARY STATEMENT.  CAN THEY --

                    CAN THAT DEFENDANT DO THAT AND STILL HAVE THAT ADMISSIBLE LATER?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.  IF IT'S A KNOWING AND VOLUNTARY

                    WAIVER, IT'S ADMISSIBLE, AND ESPECIALLY AFTER A CONSULTATION WITH AN

                    ATTORNEY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO IT'S STILL APPROPRIATE -- IT COULD BE

                    APPROPRIATE FOR THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT TO REJECT ANY ADVICE THROUGH THE

                    CONSULTATION, THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THE CONSULTATION DID OCCUR.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  ALL RIGHT.  AND IF -- OKAY.  SO LET ME

                    JUST -- I KNOW I'M THROWING THESE AT YOU PRETTY QUICKLY, LET ME JUST GET

                    BACK TO MY NOTES HERE.  ALL RIGHT.  NOW, I NOTICED THAT IN THE LAW ITSELF,

                    AND THIS WASN'T A PORTION THAT WAS CHANGED BY THE -- BY THE BILL, THERE'S

                    A SECTION THAT DEALS WITH KIND OF FACTORS TO BE CONSIDERED.  I'M LOOKING

                    AT PAGE 3 STARTING AROUND LINE 22, ABOUT -- IN DETERMINING THE

                                         340



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SUITABILITY OF QUESTIONING.  YOU'RE GOING TO CONSIDER THE PRESENCE OR

                    ABSENCE OF PARENTS, THE REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME FOR QUESTIONING, DO

                    YOU SEE THAT SECTION?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  WHAT -- WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE OF THOSE

                    DETERMINATIONS?  BECAUSE DOESN'T THE BILL REALLY HAVE TO DO WITH

                    WHETHER A STATEMENT IS GOING TO BE SUPPRESSED AS A MATTER OF LAW?  I

                    MEAN, ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO BE DOING LIKE A HUNTLEY HEARING AS FAR AS

                    WHETHER A STATEMENT IS GOING TO BE SUPPRESSED OR NOT SUPPRESSED?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  SO HUNTLEY HEARINGS ARE STILL

                    PERMISSIBLE AND, YOU KNOW, WE PUT THIS LANGUAGE IN FOR THE JUDGES TO

                    DECIDE, YOU KNOW, HOW THE INTERROGATION WENT WITH THE CHILD.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT A JUDGE AT A

                    HUNTLEY HEARING WILL SAY, ALL RIGHT, FIRST OF ALL, HAS THERE BEEN -- MUST I

                    SUPPRESS AS A MATTER OF LAW BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ATTORNEY

                    CONSULTATION?  IF THERE WAS ATTORNEY CONSULTATION AND THERE'S STILL A

                    STATEMENT, THEN I TAKE A LOOK AT THESE OTHER FACTORS TO SEE WHETHER OR

                    NOT IT WAS -- WHETHER OR NOT RULES WERE FOLLOWED THAT MAKE IT A

                    REASONABLE -- REASONABLY OBTAINED STATEMENT THAT I'M GOING TO FIND

                    DOES NOT NEED TO BE SUPPRESSED.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  SO THIS DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING

                    THAT'S, YOU KNOW, CURRENTLY HAPPENING.  IT'S BASICALLY LAID OUT IN THIS

                    WAY TO REASSERT, YOU KNOW, FACTORS THAT THE JUDGES CAN LOOK AT IN TERMS

                    OF LOOKING AT THE INTERROGATION PROCESS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  SO -- HOLD ON A

                                         341



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SECOND.  OKAY.  SO ONE OF THE THINGS -- ONE OF THE GROUPS THAT HAS

                    CONCERNS WITH THE LEGISLATION EVEN IN ITS C PRINT WHERE WE ARE HERE IS

                    THE NEW YORK STATE SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION.  SO I JUST WANT TO REVIEW

                    WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.  THEY'RE SAYING, THIS VERSION IS BETTER THAN THE

                    ORIGINAL BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL WOULD HAVE PROHIBITED POLICE FROM EVEN

                    TALKING TO AN ARRESTED JUVENILE UNLESS IT WAS NECESSARY TO PREVENT THE

                    IMMEDIATE DEATH OR INJURY OF A THIRD-PARTY.  SO THAT WAS MAYBE SOME

                    OF THE FEEDBACK THAT YOU RECEIVED, YOU CHANGED THE BILL, THAT'S GREAT.

                    BUT THEY SAY -- THEY SAY, NO DEFENSE ATTORNEY WILL EVER TELL THEIR CLIENT

                    TO SPEAK WITH THE POLICE SO IN VIRTUALLY ALL CASES, THE JUVENILE'S

                    CULPABILITY FOR A CRIME WOULD HAVE TO BE PROVEN ANOTHER WAY.  WHAT --

                    WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT CONCERN FROM THE SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  SO YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THIS

                    BILL IS JUST ENSURING THAT CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS ARE ACTUALLY A

                    REALITY.  SO YOU KNOW, I HEAR THE ARGUMENTS, THAT'S WHY WE NEED THE

                    BILL, WE MADE ADDITIONAL CHANGES TO THE BILL IN TERMS OF NARROWING THE

                    SCOPE.  BUT, YOU KNOW, DATA IS THAT 90 PERCENT OF ADOLESCENTS ARE

                    WAIVING THEIR MIRANDA RIGHTS, SO AGAIN, WE FEEL LIKE THIS IS A VERY

                    IMPORTANT ISSUE AND THIS BILL BEST ADDRESSES THAT GOAL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND YOU JUST REMINDED ME OF A

                    QUESTION I FORGOT TO ASK YOU EARLIER WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT

                    MIRANDA RIGHTS.  LET'S SAY THAT THERE IS A PARENT OR PLR THAT COMES --

                    SAY COMES TO THE STATION WITH THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT.  MAY THE JUVENILE

                    DEFENDANT HIM OR HERSELF WAIVE MIRANDA RIGHTS?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  IT'S A NON-WAIVEABLE RIGHT FOR A CHILD.

                                         342



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THE PARENT CANNOT WAIVE THIS RIGHT ON BEHALF OF THE CHILD, NO.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO THEY PARENT CANNOT WAIVE IT --

                                 MS. JOYNER:  NO.

                                 MS. WALSH:  -- ONLY THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT HIM OR

                    HERSELF COULD WAIVE IT.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  CORRECT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY, THANK YOU FOR THAT.  SO ONE OF

                    THE OTHER THINGS THAT THE SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION POINTS OUT IS THEY SAY,

                    THE BIG QUESTION IS WHAT ABOUT VOLUNTARY STATEMENTS MADE TO OFFICERS

                    BEFORE THE JUVENILE IS BROUGHT TO A STATION OR TO THEIR HOME.  WOULD

                    THESE BE ADMISSIBLE?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  SO AGAIN, IF IT'S DURING THE

                    INVESTIGATION PROCESS, STATEMENTS ARE, YOU KNOW, ALLOWED.  IT'S ONLY

                    AFTER A CUSTODIAL -- CUSTODY ARREST WHERE CONSULTATION WITHIN AN

                    ATTORNEY IS, YOU KNOW, MANDATED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO FOR EXAMPLE - AND I'M NOT A

                    CRIMINAL LAWYER SO I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS - WHEN THEY ARE

                    TRANSPORTING THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT, SAY, TO THE HOME TO SEE IF THE

                    PARENT IS THERE AND IN THE CAR, IN THE SQUAD CAR ON THE WAY OVER TO THE

                    HOME THE JUVENILE DEFENDANT IS MAKING ADMISSIONS.  IS THAT -- IS THAT

                    CONSIDERED TO BE CUSTODY WHERE THOSE STATEMENTS WOULD NOT BE OKAY,

                    OR WOULD WE BACK IT UP FURTHER TO, SAY, AT THE SCENE OF THE CRIME, OR

                    ALLEGED CRIME IF THERE ARE STATEMENTS MADE THERE BY THE JUVENILE

                    DEFENDANT WHERE THAT DEFENDANT IS NOT CURRENTLY IN CUSTODY?  I MEAN,

                    WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE AS FAR AS THOSE EARLIER STATEMENTS PRIOR TO,

                                         343



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SAY, BEING AT THE STATION?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  CUSTODY IS DEFINED AS WHETHER THE

                    PERSON FEELS THEY CAN LEAVE OR NOT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  OKAY.  SO I DON'T KNOW THE

                    ANSWER TO THAT.  DID YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW IF THAT MEANS THAT IF THEY'RE IN

                    THE SCENARIO WHERE THEY'RE IN THE POLICE CAR ON THE WAY TO THE HOME?

                    DOES IT DEPEND ON WHETHER THE CAR DOOR IS LOCKED?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YOU KNOW, THIS WOULD BE UP TO A

                    JUDGE TO LOOK AT --

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  -- WHETHER OR NOT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN,

                    WITH THE FACTORS WE LAID OUT IN THE BILL WOULD A CHILD FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE

                    THE ABILITY TO LEAVE OR NOT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY, VERY GOOD.  NOW, ONE OF THE

                    CONCERNS THAT WAS RAISED BY -- A MEMO OF ACTUAL SUPPORT THAT I THOUGHT

                    WAS INTERESTING WAS FROM SAFE HORIZON AND ALTHOUGH THEY WERE OVERALL

                    SUPPORTIVE OF THE LEGISLATION, THEY RAISED WHAT I THOUGHT WAS KIND OF --

                    KIND OF AN INTERESTING CONCERN.  THEY SAY, FIRST, IT'S IMPORTANT TO

                    ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THIS BILL.  TREATMENT AND

                    COUNSELING FOR CHILDREN EXHIBITING PROBLEMATIC SEXUAL BEHAVIORS IS

                    OFTEN ACCESSED THROUGH A CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROCESS.  THIS MUST CHANGE,

                    OF COURSE, BUT IF CHILDREN WHO CAUSE HARM ARE LIKELY GOING TO BE

                    EXTRACTED FROM POLICE INTERROGATIONS THAT CURRENTLY -- THAT CURRENT

                    EXISTING PATH TO TREATMENT MAY BE CLOSED.  ADDITIONALLY, WHEN LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT IS UNABLE TO OBTAIN STATEMENTS FROM THOSE SUSPECTED OF

                                         344



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CAUSING HARM, MORE PRESSURE IS PLACED ON THE VICTIM OF THE CRIME IN

                    QUESTION WHOSE STATEMENT IS ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT MAY HAVE.  WE DO NOT

                    WANT TO UNINTENTIONALLY HARM VICTIMS AND SURVIVORS OF VIOLENCE AND

                    ABUSE, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN.  AND I THINK IN THAT INSTANCE THEY WERE

                    TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT PERHAPS YOUTH-ON-YOUTH SEXUAL CRIME.  I

                    THINK THAT THEY WERE SPECIFICALLY REFERRING TO THAT.  HOW WOULD YOU

                    RESPOND TO THAT CONCERN EXPRESSED BY SAFE HORIZON?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  THERE'S NOTHING IN THIS BILL THAT WOULD

                    PROHIBIT ANY YOUTH THAT FEELS UNSAFE TO BE, YOU KNOW, TRANSPORTED TO A

                    SAFE LOCATION.  BUT AGAIN, IF, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE IN CUSTODY AND THEY

                    ARE ALLOWED -- THIS BILL IS GOING TO ALLOW AN ATTORNEY TO BE PRESENT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  VERY GOOD.  ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU

                    VERY MUCH, MS. JOYNER, I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS.

                                 MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU SO MUCH.  I THINK THAT MY

                    INITIAL 15 MINUTES IS ALMOST EXPIRED SO I WILL SAVE MY -- I'LL SPEAK ON

                    THE BILL -- OR I'LL EXPLAIN MY VOTE LATER IS WHAT I'M SAYING.  I THINK THAT

                    THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE QUESTIONS.  THANK YOU SO MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. REILLY.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THE SPONSOR

                                         345



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MS. JOYNER.  I APOLOGIZE,

                    I'M BEHIND YOU, SO -- YOU DON'T HAVE TO TURN AROUND, DON'T WORRY ABOUT

                    IT.  I HAVE A QUESTION.  DURING THE -- I KNOW IN THE BILL IT STATES THAT

                    WHEN THE POLICE ARRIVE ON THE SCENE AND THERE'S AN INCIDENT WHERE THE

                    JUVENILE, WHETHER THAT'S ANYBODY UNDER THE AGE OF 18, IT SAYS, THEY

                    SHALL IMMEDIATELY, BEFORE TRANSPORTING THE CHILD TO THE POLICE STATION,

                    HAVE TO CONTACT THE PARENT.  NOW, IS THAT ACCURATE?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  IS THERE ANY EXCEPTIONS TO THAT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  SO THERE'S STILL -- THE PUBLIC

                    SAFETY EXCEPTION IS STILL APPLICABLE.  IF THERE'S AN EMERGENCY SITUATION,

                    THAT'S ALSO STILL APPLICABLE.  SO EXISTING EXCEPTIONS ARE STILL PERMISSIBLE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  IS THERE A REASON WHY WE USE "SHALL,"

                    THEN, BECAUSE SHALL WOULD MEAN THAT THEY HAVE TO DO IT AND THERE'S NO

                    EXCEPTIONS.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  SO SHALL IMMEDIATELY IS

                    CURRENT LAW.  THIS BILL DOESN'T CHANGE CURRENT LAW ON THAT ISSUE --

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  -- IN TERMS OF "SHALL," "MUST."  THE

                    CURRENT LAW STILL SAYS SHALL.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO -- BUT THE CURRENT LAW, BECAUSE I

                    SEE THE NEW GREEN HIGHLIGHTED, UNDERLINED, IT SAYS "BEFORE

                    TRANSPORTING."  THE CURRENT LAW DOESN'T SAY BEFORE TRANSPORTING,

                    CORRECT?  IT WAS IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU CONTACTED THE

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    PARENTS; IS THAT ACCURATE?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  SO THE PURPOSE OF THAT SECTION IS

                    BASICALLY TO CLARIFY AND FULLY LAY OUT THAT IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION IS

                    BEFORE A CHILD IS TRANSPORTED TO ANY OTHER LOCATION.  THAT'S THE PURPOSE

                    OF THE PROVISION.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO IF YOU HAVE A SCENARIO, SAY AT 42ND

                    STREET AND BROADWAY IN TIMES SQUARE, THERE'S A BIG MOVIE THEATER,

                    RIGHT, IN MANHATTAN.  LARGE FIGHT, 100 JUVENILES, THEY GET INTO AN

                    ARGUMENT, THEY HAVE A FIST FIGHT, POLICE ARRIVE, THEY'RE MAKING ARRESTS

                    FOR MISDEMEANOR ASSAULTS.  THERE'S A LARGE CROWD THERE.  CAN THEY

                    TRANSPORT THOSE KIDS, THOSE OFFENDERS, TO THE PRECINCT WITHOUT HAVING TO

                    CONTACT THE PARENTS?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  CURRENT EXCEPTIONS ARE STILL

                    APPLICABLE.  SO IF IT'S AN EMERGENCY, AN EXIGENT SITUATION, AS YOU, YOU

                    KNOW, LAID OUT, THESE EXCEPTIONS IN TERMS OF TRANSPORTING THE CHILD ARE

                    STILL PERMISSIBLE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE BILL

                    THAT WOULD ACTUALLY CLARIFY THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE EXIGENT

                    CIRCUMSTANCES --

                                 MS. JOYNER:  I MEAN, CASE LAW ALREADY LAYS OUT,

                    YOU KNOW, THOSE PROTECTIONS AND THAT ABILITY TO TRANSPORT CHILDREN IN

                    THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY, THANK YOU.  SO DURING THE

                    PREVIOUS -- MY COLLEAGUE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS AND TALKED ABOUT WHAT

                    WOULD EQUATE TO A SPONTANEOUS UTTERANCE.  SO IF YOU'RE DOING, IN THAT

                                         347



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    SCENARIO, RIGHT, THAT SCENARIO 42ND STREET AND BROADWAY, AND I'M ON

                    PATROL WITH MY PARTNER AND WE ARRIVE AND WE MAKE THE ARREST AND IT'S A

                    14-YEAR-OLD AND WE HANDCUFF THEM AND WE PUT THEM IN THE BACKSEAT OF

                    THE RMP, THE RADIO MOTOR PATROL CAR, AND WE'RE DRIVING BACK TO THE

                    PRECINCT BECAUSE THERE'S EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES, RIGHT, THE SHEER AMOUNT

                    OF PEOPLE, AND THAT 14-YEAR-OLD SAYS, I HAD A GUN AND I HAD IT ON THE

                    SIDEWALK AND I PLACED IT THERE.  WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED A

                    SPONTANEOUS UTTERANCE AND ADMISSIBLE EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOT HAVE

                    THAT CONSULTATION WITH AN ATTORNEY AND THEIR PARENT WASN'T NOTIFIED?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  SO UNDER THE FACTS YOU PRESENTED, I

                    THINK THE COURT WOULD LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE RELEVANT

                    CIRCUMSTANCES THAT YOU SAID.  WAS THERE QUESTIONING OF THE POLICE OR

                    WAS THIS IS A VOLUNTARY STATEMENT, AND THAT WOULD BE UP FOR THE JUDGE TO

                    DECIDE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WAS THIS IS A VOLUNTARY STATEMENT OR NOT.

                    BUT AGAIN, THIS LAW IS GOING TO MANDATE THAT ONCE THE CHILD IS IN

                    CUSTODY, CONSULTATION WITH AN ATTORNEY IS MANDATED.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  IS THERE ANY, I GUESS,

                    CLEARINGHOUSE OF JUVENILE ATTORNEYS THAT WILL BE ON-CALL WHEN POLICE

                    OFFICERS IN -- THROUGHOUT THE STATE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO, YOU KNOW,

                    PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT CONSULTATION?  AND IF THERE'S NONE

                    AVAILABLE, WHAT HAPPENS?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THIS BILL IS

                    MANDATING THAT CONSULTATION WITH AN ATTORNEY MUST HAVE HAPPEN.  OCA

                    BELIEVES THAT THEY CAN FULFILL THIS OBLIGATION SO YES, IN ALL OF THESE

                    CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE AN ATTORNEY MUST BE PRESENT AND, AGAIN, WE LAY

                                         348



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OUT, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR ATTORNEYS PRESENCE TO BE ALLOWED.

                    YOU KNOW, WE -- THERE WILL BE FUNDING TO SUPPORT THIS INITIATIVE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  AND ANOTHER -- IN LINE 7 IN SUB

                    B IN HERE IT SAYS, WHEN THE OFFICER DOES NOT REASONABLY BELIEVE THE

                    PARENT OR OTHER PERSON LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD'S CARE WILL

                    APPEAR FOR THE CHILD.  WHEN WE SAY "REASONABLY BELIEVE," ARE -- WHAT

                    STANDARDS ARE WE USING?  DOES IT HAVE TO BE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PHONE

                    CALLS?  IS THAT BASED ON CASE LAW?  HOW MANY ATTEMPTS, WHAT WOULD WE

                    USE FOR THAT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  I GUESS, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE BASED

                    ON WOULD A REASONABLE OFFICER BELIEVE THAT A PARENT WOULD APPEAR OR

                    NOT.  SO THAT'S OPEN.  IF THE PARENT DOESN'T PICK UP OR, YOU KNOW, SEEING

                    THAT THEY'RE WORKING, THAT -- THAT I BELIEVE WOULD BE ON THE DISCRETION

                    OF THE POLICE OFFICER AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE PARENT WOULD APPEAR.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY, ALL RIGHT.  SO EARLIER DURING THE

                    DEBATE WITH OUR COLLEAGUE, THERE WAS A CONVERSATION ABOUT CAN THE

                    JUVENILE WAIVE THEIR RIGHT TO THROUGH MIRANDA AFTER THEY'VE HAD A

                    CONSULTATION WITH THE ATTORNEY.  I BELIEVE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, YOU SAID

                    THAT THEY COULD?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO THE REASON WHY I ASK THAT IS

                    BECAUSE I THOUGHT ONCE THEY INVOKE THE RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY, AS A LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT AGENT RIGHT THERE QUESTIONING HAD TO STOP AND AT THAT

                    POINT, IF THEIR ATTORNEY WAS NOT PRESENT, THEY COULD NOT WITHDRAW THAT

                    RIGHT.  SO IS THERE ANYTHING THAT -- CAN YOU RECITE ANY, BECAUSE AREN'T

                                         349



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THEY INVOKING THE RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY THERE WITH THAT CONSULTATION?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  SO YES, THE BILL DOESN'T CHANGE ANY

                    CURRENT CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS SO YES, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO AN

                    ATTORNEY.  THIS IS ALSO ADDING THE PROVISION THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO

                    CONSULT AN ATTORNEY.  AFTER CONSULTATION, IT'S UP TO THE YOUTH WHETHER OR

                    NOT THEY WANT TO WAIVE THEIR RIGHTS AND CONTINUE SPEAKING OR, YOU

                    KNOW, THEY WANT TO -- THEY WANT TO INVOKE THEIR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  AND I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY,

                    BEFORE, YOU SAID THE PARENTS CAN'T WAIVE THEIR RIGHT.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  NO, THEY CANNOT.

                                 MR. REILLY:  ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU, MS. JOYNER.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  WOULD THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  DOES THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANKS, MS. JOYNER.  I'M LOOKING

                    AT THE TOP OF PAGE 3.  AS I UNDERSTAND THIS, IT SAYS THAT AN OFFICER

                    NORMALLY CAN'T QUESTION A CHILD ABOUT A CRIME UNLESS THEY CONTACT THE

                    CHILD'S PARENTS OR GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS THAT YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER; IS

                                         350



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND THAT APPLIES EVEN IF THE CHILD

                    IS NOT CONSIDERED A SUSPECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  IF THEY'RE NOT CONSIDERED -- WHAT DO

                    YOU MEAN?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  A SUSPECT, THEY'RE JUST A WITNESS.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  IF THEY'RE NOT IN CUSTODY AND THEY'RE

                    JUST A WITNESS, YES, QUESTIONING CAN HAPPEN.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND THEN AT WHAT POINT DOES THAT

                    CHANGE?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  WHEN THE -- THE CHILD FEELS LIKE THEY

                    CANNOT LEAVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  WHEN THEY ARE IN CUSTODY AND THEY

                    FEEL LIKE THEY CANNOT LEAVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WHEN THEY'RE IN CUSTODY?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  SO LET ME JUST GIVE SOME QUICK

                    EXAMPLES, MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME OUT.  POLICE RESPOND TO A SHOOTING

                    IN NEW YORK CITY, THEY ARRIVE, THERE'S A DEAD PERSON ON THE STREET AND

                    THERE ARE A COUPLE OF YOUNG TEENAGERS, CLEARLY WITNESSES, COULD BE

                    SUSPECT, BUT OFFICERS OBVIOUSLY ARRIVE AND DON'T KNOW, AND THE OFFICERS

                    QUESTION THE KIDS.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  OKAY, YEAH.  SO IF THEY ARE A WITNESS,

                                         351



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    QUESTIONING IS PERMISSIBLE, WHICH IS ALREADY ALLOWED UNDER CURRENT

                    LAW.  ONCE THEY ARE A SUSPECT OR, YOU KNOW, TRANSITIONED INTO THEIR --

                    THEY CANNOT LEAVE AND THEY'RE IN CUSTODY, THAT'S WHEN ALL OF THESE OTHER

                    ADDITIONAL SAFEGUARDS AND PROTECTIONS WOULD BE IMPLICATED.  SO THIS

                    DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH ANY INVESTIGATORY PROCESS THAT HAPPENS IN THE

                    BEGINNING.  IT'S ONLY AFTER THE CHILD IS A SUSPECT OR HELD IN CUSTODY THAT

                    THEN THESE ADDITIONAL RIGHTS ARE MANDATED.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, THE REASON I'M A LITTLE

                    CONFUSED IS IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT PAGE 3, SAY STARTING ON LINE 9, IT SAYS,

                    THE CHILD SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION UNLESS OR

                    UNTIL A, THE CHILD AND THE PERSON REQUIRED TO BE NOTIFIED, IF PRESENT,

                    HAVE BEEN ADVISED, RIGHT?  THE CHILD'S BEEN ADVISED OF THE RIGHT TO

                    REMAIN SILENT, RIGHT?  YOU HAVE BASICALLY A MIRANDA WARNING, A

                    STATEMENT MADE BY THE CHILD MAY BE USED BY THE CHILD, A CHILD'S RIGHT

                    TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY PRESENT, A CHILD HAS CONSULTED AND B, THE CHILD HAS

                    CONSULTED WITH LEGAL COUNSEL IN PERSON, BY TELEPHONE, BY VIDEO

                    CONFERENCE.  THIS CONSULTATION MAY NOT BE WAIVED, CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  ALL RIGHT, SO NOW WITH THOSE THINGS

                    IN MIND, INCLUDING THE ABSOLUTE RIGHT FOR A CHILD TO HAVE LEGAL COUNSEL

                    IN PERSON BEFORE THEY CAN BE QUESTIONED, IF YOU GET A CALL ON A SCHOOL

                    SHOOTING AND YOU SHOW UP AND YOU HAVE A ROOM FULL OF 15-YEAR-OLD

                    KIDS WHO WITNESSED A SCHOOL SHOOTING, AM I CORRECT THAT YOU CAN'T

                    QUESTION THEM UNTIL YOU GIVE ALL THE CHILDREN A MIRANDA RIGHT AND GIVE

                    THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A LAWYER?

                                         352



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MS. JOYNER:  NO, THAT'S NOT CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WELL, WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEN BY

                    PAGE 7, LINE 20?  IT SAYS, A CHILD MAY NOT BE QUESTIONED UNLESS OR UNTIL,

                    ON PARAGRAPH B ON LINE 20, THE CHILD HAS CONSULTED WITH LEGAL COUNSEL

                    IN PERSON.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  SO THIS -- THE SECTIONS YOU'RE

                    READING KICK IN ONLY AFTER THERE'S BEEN AN IDENTIFIABLE CHILD THAT HAS

                    BEEN TAKEN INTO CUSTODY.  THAT'S THE READING OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                    SO IT'S NOT TAKEN IN ISOLATION, IT'S AFTER THE CHILD IS ALREADY IN CUSTODY,

                    THEN THESE PROVISIONS KICK IN.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  BUT ISN'T IT TRUE THAT THE COURTS

                    CONSIDER A CHILD IN CUSTODY WHENEVER THE CHILD CANNOT FREELY LEAVE?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  SECTION 305 OF THE FAMILY COURT ACT

                    LAYS OUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN A CHILD IS IN CUSTODY OR NOT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  SECTION 305 OF THE FAMILY COURT ACT,

                    IT LAYS OUT THE FACTORS TO DETERMINE WHETHER A CHILD IS TAKEN INTO

                    CUSTODY.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  BUT A CHILD IS CONSIDER IN CUSTODY

                    IF THE CHILD IS NOT FREE TO LEAVE.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO IF AN OFFICER SHOWS UP AT A

                    PLACE AND CRIME SCENE, YOU KNOW, LIKE IN TEXAS, AND THE POLICE

                    OFFICERS SAY, WE WANT TO QUESTION YOU, AND NO, YOU CAN'T LEAVE UNTIL

                    WE'VE HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO YOU.  THEN THE CHILDREN ARE CONSIDERED IN

                                         353



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CUSTODY, CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  SO AT THAT POINT, THEY'RE ALL WITNESSES

                    SO QUESTIONING CAN BE PERMISSIBLE, BUT ONCE THERE'S AN IDENTIFIABLE

                    PERSON THAT IS GOING TO BE HELD IN CUSTODY, THAT'S WHEN ALL THESE OTHER

                    PROVISIONS KICK IN.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO THE POLICE ARRIVE, THEY HAVE

                    ALL THESE KIDS, IT'S ABSOLUTE CHAOS, THEY SAY, DON'T LET ANYONE LEAVE UNTIL

                    WE HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK TO YOU, THEY TALK TO ONE OF THE KIDS AND THE

                    KID SAID, YEAH, I SHOT EVERYONE ELSE.  NOW, THAT STATEMENT UNDER THIS

                    ISN'T INADMISSIBLE BECAUSE HE WASN'T GIVEN HIS MIRANDA RIGHTS, HE

                    WASN'T GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A LAWYER, RIGHT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  IF IT'S VOLUNTARY AND BEFORE CUSTODY,

                    IT'S PERMISSIBLE.  AND THE CURRENT LAW OF ALLOWING EXIGENT

                    CIRCUMSTANCES AND EMERGENCY CIRCUMSTANCES STILL ALLOW THE POLICE

                    OFFICERS TO ASK QUESTIONS.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  SO NOW THE OFFICERS SAY,

                    WELL, WE'D LIKE YOU TO COME TO THE STATION AND GIVE A STATEMENT, RIGHT.

                    THEY CAN'T TAKE THE CHILD TO THE STATION, CORRECT, WITHOUT -- THEY HAVE TO

                    TAKE INSTEAD TO THE CHILD'S HOME, CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  NO, THAT'S NOT CORRECT.  YES, PARENTAL

                    NOTIFICATION, BUT IF IT'S AN EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCE THEY CAN TRANSPORT THE

                    CHILD BUT, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THEY WOULD NOTIFY THE PARENTS THAT ARE

                    TRANSPORTING THE CHILD FROM THE LOCATION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  BUT BEFORE THEY TAKE THE CHILD TO

                    THE POLICE STATION FOR QUESTIONING OR FOR VIDEOTAPING, RIGHT, BECAUSE WE

                                         354



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ALL WANT THESE VIDEOTAPED, THEY MUST IMMEDIATELY AND BEFORE

                    TRANSPORTING THE CHILD NOTIFY THE PARENTS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  SO YOU HAVE POLICE -- SO WE

                    KNOW YOU HAVE TO VIDEOTAPE THESE, RIGHT, THAT'S PART OF THE LAW NOW.

                                 MS. JOYNER:  YES.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND OF COURSE THE POLICE DON'T

                    COME WITH A MOBILE VIDEO VAN, RIGHT, THEY DO THAT IN THE POLICE STATION

                    WHERE THEY HAVE THE PROPER EQUIPMENT, CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THE

                    QUESTION?

                                 MR. GOODELL:  CERTAINLY.  I MEAN, THE POLICE DON'T

                    DRIVE AROUND WITH LARGE MOBILE VIDEO CONFERENCING ROOMS, RIGHT, SO

                    THEY WOULD HAVE TO, UNDER EXISTING LAW, TAKE THEM TO THE STATION IN

                    ORDER TO VIDEOTAPE THE IN-QUESTION, CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  AND SO YOU SHOW UP TO SCHOOL,

                    THERE'S BEEN A MASS SHOOTING, YOU WANT TO GET ALL THE KIDS' STATEMENTS

                    DOWN ON THE RECORD, YOU WANT TO VIDEOTAPE THEM.  NUMBER ONE, YOU

                    CAN'T TAKE THEM TO THE STATION WITHOUT NOTIFYING THEIR PARENTS, CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  RIGHT.  SO PARENTAL NOTIFICATION IS

                    REQUIRED, BUT THE EXCEPTIONS OF EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES ARE ALSO -- I

                    WOULD SAY TRUMP PARENTAL NOTIFICATION.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  AND THEN -- BUT ASSUMING,

                    YOU KNOW, THAT THE SITUATION -- I MEAN, THERE'S NO ACTIVE SHOOTER SO IT'S

                                         355



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NOT EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES ANYMORE.  THEN BEFORE YOU TAKE THEM DOWN

                    TO HAVE THEM INTERVIEWED, YOU HAVE TO NOTIFY THE PARENTS, YOU HAVE TO

                    GIVE THEM MIRANDA RIGHTS, RIGHT, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE THEM WITH AN

                    ATTORNEY, RIGHT, AND ANYTHING THAT THEY DO, VIDEOTAPING, IF IT WASN'T

                    DONE WITH AN ATTORNEY IN ADVANCE IS INADMISSIBLE, CORRECT?

                                 MS. JOYNER:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  OKAY.  I THINK I UNDERSTAND IT.

                    THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HELPING EXPLAIN IT TO ME.

                                 SIR, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  WE HAVE ALL BEEN SHAKEN BY THE

                    AMOUNT OF VIOLENCE THAT WE HAVE SEEN ACROSS THE NATION IN THE LAST FEW

                    WEEKS AND, SADLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA, A LOT OF THE FBI DATA

                    INDICATES THAT -- WELL, THE LAST DATA I SAW WERE THAT 33 OF THE SCHOOL

                    SHOOTINGS INVOLVED KIDS THAT WERE UNDER THE AGE OF 18, 17,

                    16-YEAR-OLDS, 15-YEAR-OLDS.  AND IT'S JUST HORRIFIC WHEN THAT HAPPENS,

                    RIGHT?  SO IF YOU HAVE A GANG SHOOTING AT A PARTY OR SOMETHING LIKE

                    THAT, CURRENT LAW REQUIRES THE POLICE TO VIDEOTAPE THE INTERVIEW OF THE

                    CHILD.  SO THEY SHOW UP AND BEFORE THEY CAN TAKE THEM TO THE STATION TO

                    VIDEOTAPE THEM AND GET THE WITNESS'S TESTIMONY, THEY MUST NOTIFY THE

                    PARENTS.  AND IF IT WAS A GANG FIGHT, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PARENTS ARE

                    GOING TO SAY TO THE CHILD?  ARE THEY GOING TO SAY, YEAH, IDENTIFY THE

                    GANG MEMBER WHO PULLED THE TRIGGER AND SHOT THREE OF YOUR FRIENDS.

                    THAT'S NOT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.  THE PARENTS ARE GOING TO SAY TO

                    THEIR KID, YOU KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT OR YOU MIGHT BE THE NEXT VICTIM.

                                         356



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AND IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT HAPPENS, TALK TO THE POLICE IN NEW YORK

                    CITY AND ASK THEM HOW MUCH COOPERATION THEY HAVE WITH WITNESSES

                    AFTER THEIR PARENTS TALK TO THEM AND AFTER THEY LAWYERED UP.

                                 ARE WE SERIOUS ABOUT STOPPING VIOLENCE?  DO WE WANT

                    TO SOLVE THESE CRIMES?  DO WE WANT THE POLICE TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO

                    A SCHOOL SHOOTING AND TALK TO THE KIDS?  OR ARE WE MORE CONCERNED

                    ABOUT MAKING SURE THE PARENTS TELL THE KIDS TO SHUT UP AND DON'T GET

                    INVOLVED?  ARE WE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THESE KIDS

                    HAVE LAWYERS?  BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES.

                                 I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT BLOOD ON MY HAND, AND I

                    HOPE YOU WON'T HAVE IT ON YOUR HANDS EITHER.  OUR NUMBER ONE MISSION

                    IS NOT TO MAKE SURE THAT CHILD WITNESSES ARE LAWYERED UP.  THAT'S NOT

                    OUR MISSION.  OUR MISSION IS TO REDUCE CRIME, TO REDUCE DEATHS, TO FIND

                    OUT WHO THE PERPETRATORS ARE, TO GET TO THE TRUTH, AND THIS MAKES IT

                    HARDER, NOT EASIER.  FOR THAT REASON, I CANNOT SUPPORT IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. TANNOUSIS.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  YOU KNOW, MY TIME AS A

                    PROSECUTOR IN BOTH THE BRONX AND ON STATEN ISLAND, I HAVE DEALT WITH

                    SHOOTING VICTIMS WITH WITNESSES, BODIES ON THE STREET, CHILD WITNESSES,

                    CHILD VICTIMS, AND IT WAS A STRUGGLE TO GET THEM TO COOPERATE IN ORDER

                    FOR US TO GET THE BAD GUYS, THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE ACTS OFF THE

                    STREET.  AND THIS BODY CONTINUES TO HAVE THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE POLICE

                    ARE VIOLATING OR PURPOSELY VIOLATE PEOPLE'S RIGHTS.  THEY ARE TRYING TO

                    DO THE RIGHT THING AND LAWS LIKE THIS WILL HINDER THE POLICE OFFICERS

                                         357



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    FROM BEING ABLE TO CARRY OUT THESE INVESTIGATIONS SO THEY CAN DO THEIR

                    PART TO KEEP OUR STREETS SAFE.

                                 WE JUST WENT THROUGH A BUDGET PROCESS A FEW MONTHS

                    AGO AND WE SAT HERE AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT 16- AND

                    17-YEAR-OLDS ARE BEING USED BY GANG MEMBERS TO CARRY OUT CRIMES.

                    AND INSTEAD OF PASSING ANY TYPE OF SUBSTANTIVE LEGISLATION THAT WOULD

                    GO AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HARMING OUR COMMUNITIES, WE ARE NOW

                    PASSING BILLS THAT WILL MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR POLICE OFFICERS TO DO

                    THEIR JOBS.  WE ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE POLICE

                    IS OUT THERE VIOLATING PEOPLE'S RIGHTS AND NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING

                    INSTEAD OF ADEQUATELY PROTECTING OUR COMMUNITY.  I HAVE DEALT WITH

                    MEMBERS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.  THE VAST MAJORITY OF POLICE

                    OFFICERS ARE WITH US, SERVING THEIR COMMUNITY TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

                    AND WE NEED THEM.  WE NEED POLICE TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND TO WORK

                    WITH US, NOT MAKE THEIR JOBS MORE DIFFICULT.  I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                    THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO -- I WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO ASK THE

                    SPONSOR SOME QUESTIONS, BUT I DON'T THINK I WILL AFTER I LISTENED TO THE

                    LAST COUPLE OF MY COLLEAGUES' COMMENTS BECAUSE IT ALWAYS APPEARS AS

                    IF IN OUR EFFORTS OF TRYING TO PROTECT PEOPLE THAT WE'RE SOMEHOW GOING

                    AGAINST OTHER PEOPLE.  THAT'S NOT THE CASE HERE.  AND JUST TO, YOU KNOW,

                    MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT IT IS NOT TO PROTECT PEOPLE JUST

                                         358



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    BECAUSE THEY HAVE A TITLE, I'M GOING TO USE THE EXAMPLE OF JUST WHAT

                    HAPPENED IN BUFFALO.  THERE'S A FBI AGENT WHO WAS ON A CALL 30

                    MINUTES WITH THIS MURDEROUS YOUNG MAN WHO COULD HAVE ALERTED

                    PEOPLE.  HE SWORE AND PROTECT, AND HE MIGHT BE RETIRED, BUT HE TOOK AN

                    OATH.  HE SAID NOTHING.  THAT'S NOT TO SAY ALL FBI AGENTS ARE BAD, BUT IT

                    IS TO SAY THAT THEY'RE PEOPLE, THEY'RE HUMAN AND SOMETIMES THEY DO THE

                    WRONG THING.

                                 AND IN THE SAME INSTANCE, THERE'S A CORRECTION OFFICER

                    WHO WENT ONLINE AND ALMOST APPLAUDED THIS YOUNG MAN FOR HIS

                    MURDEROUS THINGS THAT HE DID AT THAT SUPERMARKET.  WE PAY HIM WITH

                    PUBLIC TAX DOLLARS.  SO DON'T TRY TO PROTECT EVERYBODY THAT'S SUPPOSED TO

                    BE A PUBLIC DEFENDER, BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL NOT.  LET'S JUST BE ANALYSTS,

                    LET'S JUST BE OBJECTIVE.  THE SPONSOR HERE IS TRYING TO PROTECT YOUNG

                    PEOPLE, WHETHER IT BE FROM THEIR FAMILY, OR WHETHER IT BE FROM THE

                    PUBLIC SERVANTS WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING TO DEFEND THEM.

                    DON'T TRY TO JUDGE THEM ALL AS IF THEY'RE PERFECT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT,

                    SOME OF THEM ARE NOT.  AND, BY THE WAY, JUST LIKE YOU CAN FIND PEOPLE

                    WHO WILL ON THE STREET AND BE GANG BANGERS, YOU CAN FIND PEOPLE IN THE

                    CORRECTION INSTITUTION THAT PROMOTE THAT, THAT PUSH IT, THAT AGITATOR.

                                 AND SO PLEASE, LET US STOP TRYING TO PROTECT PEOPLE

                    WHO ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT.  JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE TITLE AND PERHAPS

                    EVEN THE SKIN COMPLEXION DOESN'T MAKE YOU FREAKING PERFECT.  PLEASE,

                    LET'S STOP TRYING TO ACT LIKE IT DOES.

                                 LET ME CONGRATULATE THE SPONSOR ON HER PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION AND HOPE THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD IN A WORLD THAT DOESN'T

                                         359



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ALWAYS MAKE US RIGHT BECAUSE WE'VE HAD SOME PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE

                    WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT OR WITH OUR BUDDIES WHO WORK IN -- WHO HAVE

                    ALL TAKEN A PUBLIC OATH.  WE TOOK A PUBLIC OATH, TOO, AND OUR PUBLIC

                    OATH DIDN'T SAY WE'RE GOING TO ONLY PROTECT PEOPLE WHO HAVE A BADGE,

                    OR ONLY PROTECT PEOPLE WHO ARE SWORN TO AN OATH, OR ONLY PROTECT

                    PEOPLE WHO WEAR THEIR UNIFORM ON.  IT SAYS WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT ALL

                    PEOPLE, AND THESE CHILDREN THAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT NEED PROTECTION.

                    LET'S MAKE THAT HAPPEN.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT APRIL 1ST,

                    2023.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY BILL 5891-C.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS LEGISLATION.  THOSE WHO

                    SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED TO VOTE YES HERE ON THE FLOOR OR BY

                    CONTACTING THE MINORITY LEADER'S OFFICE.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MRS.

                    PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                         360



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  MAJORITY COLLEAGUES ARE GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

                    THIS; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF US WHO WOULD CHOOSE TO BE AN

                    EXCEPTION.  THAT'S OKAY, CALL THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OFFICE, WE'LL BE

                    HAPPY TO RECORD YOUR VOTE, OR IF YOU'RE IN THE CHAMBERS, PRESS YOUR

                    OWN VOTE.  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. ANGELINO

                    TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

                    EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  THIS -- I LISTENED VERY INTENTLY TO ALL OF THIS AND THIS

                    SEEMS TO BE A BILL THAT IS GOING TO MAYBE WORK AND MAYBE WORK WELL IN

                    A METROPOLITAN AREA, BUT THERE'S PROBABLY POLICE STATIONS IN THE BRONX

                    THAT ON ANY PARTICULAR SHIFT HAVE MORE PEOPLE CALLING IN SICK THAN WE

                    HAVE WORKING IN THE ENTIRE COUNTY THAT I LIVE IN, AND ANY OF THE

                    COUNTIES I REPRESENT.  THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE WORKABLE WHEN YOU HAVE

                    ONE OFFICER WORKING AND THE NEAREST BACKUP CAR IS ANOTHER AGENCY 16

                    MILES AWAY.  I HAVE BEEN ON THE SCENES WHERE IT'S HECTIC, AND ONE

                    OFFICER, ONE CAR, AND SIX PEOPLE.

                                 AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY THIS ONE.  THIS IS

                    LOOKING OUT FOR THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE, I GET THAT, AND -- BUT IT'S JUST NOT

                    WORKABLE.  EVEN SOME OF THE ONES THAT WERE BROUGHT UP IN THE DEBATE,

                    YOU KNOW, THE VIDEOTAPING, I'VE HAD PEOPLE HANDCUFFED TO BALL RINGS IN

                    THREE DIFFERENT LOCATIONS TRYING TO OPERATE VIDEO EQUIPMENT, AND I'LL BE

                    WORKING THIS SATURDAY UNLESS WE'RE STILL HERE IN SESSION AND I WOULD

                                         361



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    ASK ANYBODY TO COME SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A ONE-MAN DEPARTMENT, OR

                    A SMALL AGENCY WITH ONLY TWO OR THREE OFFICERS WORKING.  IT'S VERY

                    DIFFICULT AND THIS IS NOT GOING TO MAKE IT EASIER.

                                 FOR THOSE REASONS, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE POLICE

                    AGENCIES ALL OVER NEW YORK STATE ARE NOT NEW YORK CITY POLICE, FOR

                    THOSE REASONS I'LL BE VOTING NO.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. ANGELINO

                    IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. REILLY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

                    MY VOTE.  SO WE HAD A LOT DISCUSSED DURING THE DEBATE, THERE'S A LOT OF

                    AMBIGUITY HERE.  I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED WITH THE WHOLE CONSULTATION

                    WITH AN ATTORNEY.  AND THEN DURING THE DEBATE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE

                    PART OF BEING ABLE TO -- FOR THE CHILD TO WAIVE THAT RIGHT AFTER THAT

                    CONSULTATION.  I THINK THAT CREATES A VERY GRAY AREA HERE WHERE ONCE

                    THEY'VE INVOKED THEIR RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY BY THAT CONSULTATION, BECAUSE

                    I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE CHALLENGED IN COURT TO SEE IF

                    THAT TRULY IS A, YOU KNOW, THEM INVOKING THEIR RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY.

                    AND THEN ONCE THEY HANG UP AFTER THAT CONSULTATION, CAN THEY WAIVE

                    THAT RIGHT TO TALK TO THE POLICE DURING INTERROGATION?  I THINK THAT'S A

                    SLIPPERY SLOPE AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE CHALLENGED, BECAUSE ANYTHING

                    THEY WOULD SAY PROBABLY WOULD BE DISMISSED, IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE

                    DURING MY TRAINING IT WAS ONCE THEY INVOKE THE RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY, ALL

                    QUESTIONING STOPPED NO MATTER WHAT.  SO I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT

                    REALLY NEEDS TO BE WORKED OUT AND I'M GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE

                                         362



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    NEGATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. REILLY IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  SO I WANT TO

                    THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE DEBATE THAT WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE.  IT WAS -- IT

                    WAS VERY DETAILED.  YOU HANDLED THE QUESTIONS I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW,

                    VERY WELL.  I FEEL THAT THE BILL, IN MY OPINION, STILL NEEDS SOME MORE

                    WORK.  WHAT -- IN REGARD TO WHAT THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER AND WHAT HE

                    SAID, I'M AN ATTORNEY FOR THE CHILD.  I HAVE REPRESENTED JUVENILE

                    DEFENDANTS.  I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN MY COUNTY, THE AFC PANEL IS

                    DWINDLING.  YOU CANNOT GET ATTORNEYS WHO WANT TO BE ON THE AFC

                    PANEL ANYMORE AND THE REASON IS THAT THE PAY STINKS, THE PAY'S TERRIBLE.

                    AND THIS BODY, THERE WAS A BIG PUSH FROM THE AFC, THE OFFICE OF

                    ATTORNEYS FOR CHILDREN THIS YEAR DURING BUDGET TO TRY TO BASICALLY

                    DOUBLE THE HOURLY RATE AND IT DIDN'T MAKE IT INTO THE BUDGET.  AND

                    ATTORNEYS FOR THE CHILD ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, I CAN DO -- I CAN DO

                    MATRIMONIAL WORK AND MAKE $350-$400 AN HOUR, EVEN UPSTATE, OR I

                    CAN MAKE $75 AN HOUR AS AN ATTORNEY FOR THE CHILD.  AND THEY'RE

                    SAYING, I'M NOT DOING IT, THEY'RE NOT ON THE PANEL.

                                 SO WE CAN'T EVEN IN MY COUNTY FIGURE OUT AND HANDLE

                    CENTRALIZED ARRAIGNMENTS YET.  SO WE'RE NOT PREPARED.  I KNOW -- I

                    RESPECT THE FACT THAT THE SPONSOR SAID THAT THERE WILL BE FUNDING TO

                    SUPPORT AFCS.  I'D LIKE TO SAY WHEN?  YOU KNOW, WHEN IS THAT GOING TO

                    HAPPEN BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, IF, YOU KNOW, REQUIRING A CONSULTATION WITH

                                         363



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AN ATTORNEY WHO DOESN'T EXIST IS NOT -- IS NOT A SOLUTION HERE.  SO I THINK

                    THAT THAT NEEDS TO GET FIGURED OUT BEFORE WE PUT SOMETHING THIS BIG INTO

                    PLACE.

                                 I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANYBODY'S RIGHTS GETTING TRAMPLED

                    EVER, BUT I'M NOT PREPARED TO VOTE FOR THIS BILL NOW.  I JUST THINK IT

                    NEEDS SOME MORE WORK.  BUT I DO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HER -- FOR HER

                    WORK ON THE BILL.  I DO THINK IT'S AN IMPROVED VERSION, BUT I'M NOT READY

                    TO VOTE FOR IT YET.  I VOTE NO.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. WALSH IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. MEEKS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. MEEKS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE

                    OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR

                    FOR THIS LEGISLATION.  I THINK IT IS HIGHLY RELEVANT.  ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES

                    STATED THAT EVERYWHERE IS NOT NEW YORK CITY; YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

                    THERE'S ROCHESTER, THERE'S SYRACUSE, THERE'S BUFFALO AND A NUMBER OF

                    OTHER PLACES IN BETWEEN.  I ONLY WISH THAT I HAD A COMMUNITY IN WHICH

                    WE HAD THREE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BECAUSE IT'S LIKELY THAT THOSE

                    THREE INDIVIDUALS WOULD KNOW EVERY FAMILY AND EVERY RELATIVE WITHIN

                    THOSE FAMILIES; HOWEVER, I DON'T LIVE IN THAT TYPE OF COMMUNITY.  WE

                    LIVE IN A COMMUNITY WHERE WE HAVE 7- TO 800 POLICE OFFICERS AND 4

                    PERCENT LIVE IN THE CITY IN WHICH THEY WORK IN.  WE CONSTANTLY SEE THE

                    TAX BASE AS IT RELATES TO THE RESOURCES THAT WE PAY AS TAXPAYERS TAKING

                    FLIGHT TO THE SURROUNDING SUBURBS.  WE ALSO SEE A PRACTICE OF AN

                    OCCUPYING FORCE COMING IN, TREATING US AS IF WE'RE INSURGENTS.  SO I

                                         364



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    THINK THAT OUR CHILDREN AND MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY NEED TO KNOW

                    THEIR RIGHTS AND THEIR RIGHTS NEED TO BE UPHELD AND WE, AS LEGISLATORS,

                    NEED TO DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE IN DOING SO.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. MEEKS IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

                    PLEASE RECORD OUR COLLEAGUE MR. COLTON IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.

                    THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER AND MY

                    COLLEAGUES, IF WE COULD NOW CALL OUR ATTENTION TO CALENDAR NO. 631 BY

                    MS. TAPIA, FOLLOWED BY RULES REPORT NO. 458 BY MR. JACOBSON.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  PAGE 47,

                    CALENDAR NO. 631, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A09606, CALENDAR NO.

                    631, TAPIA.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    REQUIRING THIRD TRIMESTER SYPHILIS TESTING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. TAPIA, AN

                    EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. TAPIA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE

                                         365



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    OPPORTUNITY.  THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE PHYSICIANS AND AUTHORIZED

                    PRACTITIONERS ATTENDING TO PREGNANT PATIENTS TO ORDER A SYPHILIS TEST FOR

                    THEIR PATIENTS DURING THE THIRD TRIMESTER OF PREGNANCY.  CONGENTIAL

                    SYPHILIS DRAMATICALLY INCREASES THE RISK OF MISCARRIAGES, FETAL GROWTH

                    RESTRICTION AND NEONATAL DEATHS BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF EARLY SYPHILIS

                    DIAGNOSES IN PREGNANT INDIVIDUALS AND CONGENITAL SYPHILIS DIAGNOSES

                    HAVE INCREASED DRAMATICALLY IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, AND SYPHILIS IS

                    TREATABLE DURING ANY POINT DURING THE PREGNANCY.  THIS BILL REPRESENTS A

                    PRACTICAL (INAUDIBLE) THRESHOLD TO REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD THAT BABIES ARE

                    BORN WITH -- WITH OR DIE FROM -- FROM A PREVENTABLE DISEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. BYRNE.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK

                    YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR THAT EXPLANATION.  I'M GOING TO BE EXPLAINING MY

                    VOTE A LITTLE BIT TO SHARE SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED,

                    BUT I DO WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE EXPLANATION.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  READ THE LAST

                    SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 365TH

                    DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON ASSEMBLY BILL 9606.  THIS IS A FAST ROLL CALL.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED IN THE NEGATIVE IS REMINDED TO

                    CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY

                    PROVIDED.

                                         366



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BYRNE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BYRNE:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  AGAIN, I

                    WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE EXPLANATION OF THE BILL.  I THINK IT'S

                    VERY WELL-INTENTIONED TO TRY TO HELP ADDRESS SYPHILIS WITH PREGNANT

                    WOMEN TO TRY TO NOT ONLY HELP THE -- THE MOTHER BUT ALSO THE CHILD.

                    THERE'S SOME CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING

                    ABOUT ADDING ANOTHER MANDATE.  THERE'S ALREADY A REQUIRED MANDATORY

                    TESTING EARLY ON IN THE PREGNANCY WITH BLOOD TESTS, BUT WE'RE ADDING

                    ANOTHER ONE IN THE THIRD TRIMESTER.  IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO BE

                    CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT IT'S NECESSARY FOR PREGNANT WOMEN WHO ARE

                    NOT SEXUALLY ACTIVE AND IT SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S JUST NOT BEING

                    ACCOUNTED FOR IN THIS BILL.  AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SOME OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES AND I DISCUSSED WAS IN THE HEALTH COMMITTEE, IT WAS JUST A

                    BIT ODD BECAUSE THIS IS ONE BILL WE'RE VOTING ON AND SOME OF US MAY

                    OPPOSE THIS, SOME MAY VOTE -- VOTE YES.  BUT THERE'S ALWAYS SOME

                    UNDERLYING CONCERNS WHEN AS LEGISLATORS WE'RE INTERVENING IN THE

                    DOCTOR-PATIENT RELATIONSHIP.  ALSO, THERE'S ANOTHER BILL THAT SOME OF US

                    ARE EXPECTING TO BE ON THE CALENDAR MAYBE TOMORROW THAT GOES IN THE

                    OPPOSITE DIRECTION THAT WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE IT HARD OR PROHIBIT DOCTORS

                    FROM REQUIRING CERTAIN DRUG TESTS AND ALCOHOL TESTS FOR PREGNANT

                    WOMEN.  SO THERE SEEMS TO BE THIS LITTLE BIT OF CONTRADICTION IN THE

                    POLICYMAKING IN OUR STATE'S CAPITOL.  THAT SAID, I CERTAINLY ADMIRE THE

                    GOALS OF THIS BILL, AND HEARING THE EXPLANATION I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO

                    VOTE YES.

                                         367



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. BYRNE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. TAPIA TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. TAPIA:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  CONGENITAL

                    SYPHILIS HAD NEARLY BEEN COMPLETELY ELIMINATED IN NEW YORK STATE IN

                    -- IN 2000.  SINCE THAT TIME IT HAS COME BACK AT AN ALARMING RATE.  LAST

                    YEAR, DOH, THE DEPARTMENT -- DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH REPORTED SYPHILIS

                    DIAGNOSIS IN WOMEN HAVE NEARLY DOUBLED SINCE 2015 TO 1,700

                    DIAGNOSES, WITH 41 INFANTS BORN WITH CONGENITAL SYPHILIS.  IN 2015

                    THERE WERE ONLY 12 CASES.  2015 (INAUDIBLE) WE HAD 41 CASES.  THE

                    SCREENING AGAIN IN THE THIRD TRIMESTER PRESENTS AN INSTANT SOLUTION TO A

                    PREVENTABLE DISEASE.

                                 I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. TAPIA IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE

                    TO PROTECT KIDS FROM SYPHILIS.  BUT THIS IS A MANDATORY MEDICAL TEST THAT

                    WE ARE REQUIRING EVERY PREGNANT WOMAN IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO

                    TAKE IN THEIR THIRD TRIMESTER, EVEN THOUGH THE FIRST TEST WAS NEGATIVE.

                    AND IN MY DISTRICT, THANKFULLY, MOST PEOPLE, AS FAR AS I KNOW, ARE

                    RELATIVELY MONOGAMOUS AND WE DON'T CARE.  WE SAY, WE DON'T CARE IF

                    YOU'RE WITH THE SAME PERSON, WE DON'T CARE IF YOUR HUSBAND'S JUST WITH

                    YOU.  WE DON'T CARE IF YOU HAVE ZERO RISK FACTORS, YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE THE

                    SECOND TEST.  AND FOR -- FOR THOSE OF US WHO LIVE IN THOSE KIND OF

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    COMMUNITIES IT'S REALLY KIND OF INSULT TO SAY YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE THE TEST

                    REGARDLESS OF YOUR RISK FACTOR.  I FULLY SUPPORT HAVING THE PHYSICIAN SAY

                    TO PATIENTS, LOOK, IF YOU HAVE ANY RISK -- OF THESE RISK FACTORS YOU OUGHT

                    TAKE THE TEST.  I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM SAYING YOU OUGHT TO TAKE THE

                    TEST IF YOU HAVE A RISK FACTOR.  BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT THIS BILL SAYS.  THIS

                    BILL SAYS YOU MUST TAKE THE TEST REGARDLESS OF ANY RISK FACTORS.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. GOODELL IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  I'LL BE BRIEF,

                    I KNOW IT'S LATE.  I -- I JUST WOULD PREFER TO LEAVE DECISIONS AS FAR AS

                    WHAT KIND OF TESTING SHOULD OCCUR BETWEEN A PATIENT AND -- AND HER

                    DOCTOR.  I JUST -- I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE

                    -- THERE COULD BE A BEST PRACTICE THAT'S DEVELOPED WITHIN THAT PROFESSION

                    AS FAR AS THIS.  I JUST DON'T THINK AS A STATE WE SHOULD BE LEGISLATING THIS.

                    SO I'M GOING TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS ONE.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. WALSH IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 PAGE 16, RULES REPORT NO. 458, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A08200-B, RULES

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    REPORT NO. 458, JACOBSON, GUNTHER, SIMON, BUTTENSCHON, LUNSFORD,

                    WALLACE.  AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    PROHIBITING INDIVIDUALS IN CERTAIN POSITIONS FROM TAKING ANY POSITION

                    WITH A BUSINESS OR ENTITY DONG BUSINESS WITH AN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT

                    AUTHORITY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  ON A MOTION BY

                    MR. JACOBSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THE CLERK WILL

                    RECORD THE VOTE ON SENATE BILL 7445-B.  THIS IS A PARTY VOTE.  ANY

                    MEMBER WHO WISHES TO BE RECORDED AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE CONFERENCE

                    POSITION IS REMINDED TO CONTACT THE MAJORITY OR MINORITY LEADER AT THE

                    NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THE REPUBLICAN

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE

                    REASONS THAT I HOPE TO EXPLAIN IN A MOMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MRS. PEOPLES-

                    STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER.  THE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IS GENERALLY GOING TO SUPPORT OUR

                    COLLEAGUE ON THIS LEGISLATION.  HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF US WHO

                    WOULD CHOOSE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO BY

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    EITHER PRESSING THEIR VOTE IN THE CHAMBERS OR CALL THE MAJORITY LEADER'S

                    OFFICE AND WE'LL MAKE SURE YOUR VOTE IS PROPERLY RECORDED.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  THIS BILL HAS THE

                    LAUDABLE AND POSITIVE INTENT OF TRYING TO PROHIBIT CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

                    INVOLVING OUR IDAS, AND THAT'S A GREAT THING TO -- TO SEE.

                    UNFORTUNATELY, THE LANGUAGE IS EXTRAORDINARILY BROAD AND WHEN -- AND

                    PROVIDES THAT NO INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR THAT'S WORKING FOR AN IDA CAN

                    BE AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR OR ANYBODY WHO HAS RECEIVED ANY

                    FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FROM THE IDA.  SO LET ME GIVE YOU A SIMPLE

                    EXAMPLE.  TRY CALLING A PLUMBER TO FIX THE TOILET AT THE IDA.  IF THE -- IF

                    THE TRADESMAN COMES AND THE PLUMBER, THE ELECTRICIAN, THE CARPENTER,

                    THE CLEANING SERVICE, THEY'RE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.  AND UNDER THIS

                    LANGUAGE IF THEY COME AND WORK FOR THE IDA THEY CAN'T WORK FOR

                    ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS RECEIVED ANY FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FROM THE IDA.

                    SO PRESUMABLY, IF THEY COME AND DO THE ELECTRICAL OR PLUMBING OR

                    CONTRACTING WORK OR CLEANING WORK OR ANY OTHER INDEPENDENT

                    CONTRACTING WORK FOR THE IDA, ANY SUBSEQUENT CLIENT WOULD HAVE TO

                    SAY, ARE YOU GETTING A PILOT AGREEMENT FROM THE IDA?  SORRY, I CAN'T

                    DO THE ELECTRICAL WORK FOR YOU, CAN'T DO PLUMBING WORK FOR YOU, CAN'T

                    DO ANY TRADES WORK FOR YOU.  SO, THE CONCEPT IS RIGHT.  I AGREE WITH MY

                    COLLEAGUE -- MY COLLEAGUE, THE SPONSOR, THAT WE NEED TO TIGHTEN THESE

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    CONFLICT OF INTEREST RULES SO THAT PEOPLE AREN'T WORKING BOTH SIDES OF THE

                    EQUATION.  AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH MY COLLEAGUE TO SEE IF

                    WE CAN COME UP WITH THE LANGUAGE THAT ACCOMPLISHES THAT.

                    UNFORTUNATELY, THIS LANGUAGE WHICH INCLUDES INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS

                    IS WAY TOO BROAD AND FOR THAT REASON I CAN'T SUPPORT IT.  BUT AGAIN, I

                    LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH MY COLLEAGUE TO SEE IF WE CAN COME UP

                    NARROWER LANGUAGE THAT ACCOMPLISHES OUR OBJECTIVES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MR. GOODELL IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. GOODELL.

                                 MR. GOODELL:  THANK YOU, SIR.  PLEASE RECORD MY

                    COLLEAGUES MR. BRABENEC, MR. MIKULIN, MR. SCHMITT AND MR. SMITH IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  SO NOTED.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU

                    HAVE FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  WE DO HAVE

                    BOTH, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. LAWLER, PAGE 30, CALENDAR NO.

                    168, BILL NO. 5373-A, THE AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. SCHMITT, PAGE 31, CALENDAR NO.

                    181, BILL NO. 5585-B, THE BILL IS AMENDED TO ITS PREVIOUS NUMBER OF

                    5585-A.

                                 WE HAVE TWO PRIVILEGED RESOLUTIONS.  RESOLUTION

                    1057, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1057, MS.

                    GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION COMMEMORATING THE 30TH

                    ANNIVERSARY OF THE QUEENS LGBTQ PRIDE PARADE ON JUNE 5, 2022.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  MS. GONZÁLEZ-

                    ROJAS.

                                 MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                    FIRST OFF, HAPPY PRIDE.  I KNOW IT'S AFTER MIDNIGHT, BUT I WANT TO WISH

                    EVERYONE HAPPY PRIDE.  I WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER AND THE STAFF FOR

                    THEIR ASSISTANCE WITH THIS RESOLUTION.  MY HOME BOROUGH OF QUEENS IS

                    HOME TO THE SECOND-OLDEST AND SECOND-LARGEST PARADE -- PRIDE PARADE

                    IN NEW YORK CITY, WHICH WILL HAPPEN ON JUNE 5TH THIS YEAR.  IT WAS

                    COFOUNDED BY MY FRIEND AND THE FORMER NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL

                    MEMBER DANNY DROMM.  THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF JACKSON HEIGHTS WHERE

                    IT'S HELD AND WHICH I LIVE AND REPRESENT IS RICH WITH A HISTORY OF QUEER

                    AND TRANSGENDER PEOPLE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR THEIR RIGHT TO LIVE AND TO

                    THRIVE.  THIS YEAR WE'LL MARCHING AS OUR ANCESTORS AND OUR TRANS-CESTORS

                    BEFORE US, REMEMBERING THE LIVES OF SO MANY WHOSE SHOULDERS WE

                    STAND ON.  WE WILL REMEMBER JULIO RIVERA AND EDGAR GARZON AND SO

                    MANY LIVES LOST TO VIOLENCE AGAINST OUR LGBTQIA SIBLINGS FROM

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    QUEENS.  WE WILL MARCH FOR RESOURCES, FOR OUR HUMAN RIGHTS, AND TO

                    REMIND EACH OTHER THAT WE GOT US.  BUT, WE WILL ALSO DANCE, WE WILL

                    SING AND WE WILL CELEBRATE.  SO THIS SUNDAY WE WILL BE QUEER AND

                    PROUD BECAUSE WE LIVE IN THE WORLD'S BOROUGH AND BECAUSE QUEENS IS

                    THE FUTURE.

                                 SO TO CONCLUDE, PLEASE JOIN US, PLEASE MARCH WITH US,

                    AND AS SYLVIA RIVERA SAID, I AM NOT MISSING A MINUTE OF THIS.  IT IS THE

                    RESOLUTION -- THE REVOLUTION.  SO, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  ON THE

                    RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NAY.  THE

                    RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

                                 RESOLUTION 1055, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. 1055, MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION CONGRATULATING LEO MALONE

                    UPON THE OCCASION OF CELEBRATING HIS 100TH BIRTHDAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  COLLEAGUES, IF

                    WE COULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT QUIET IN THE CHAMBERS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.  ON

                    BEHALF OF LEADER BARCLAY AND MYSELF, IT IS MY PLEASURE TO DO THIS

                    INTRODUCTION OF A GENTLEMAN I MET ABOUT SIX WEEKS AGO.  HIS NAME IS

                    LEO -- LEO MALONE, AND IT IS ON HIS OCCASION OF HIS 100TH BIRTHDAY,

                    WHICH IS JUNE 27TH OF THIS MONTH.  BUT WHAT'S SO SPECIAL ABOUT THIS

                    GENTLEMAN IS HE IS ONE OF OUR FEW LEFT WORLD WAR II VETERANS.  JOINING

                    THE UNITED STATES ARMY AIR CORPS IN 1942, LEO MALONE TRAINED TO BE

                                         374



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                    AN AIRPLANE ENGINE MECHANIC.  HE WENT TO STEWART TECHNICAL SCHOOL IN

                    NEW YORK CITY TO HONE HIS CRAFT AND LATER WORK ON B-17 BOMBER

                    AIRCRAFT.  HE WAS STATIONED IN HONINGTON AIR BASE IN ENGLAND WHERE HE

                    WAS BOTH A MECHANIC AND PART OF THE SALVAGE CREW.  HE AND HIS TEAM

                    WOULD GO OUT TO A CRASH SITE AND SALVAGE WHAT THEY COULD FROM CRASHED

                    AIRPLANES.  LEO MALONE WAS HONORABLY DISCHARGED ON DECEMBER 23,

                    1945.  HE EARNED THE MARKSMAN MEDAL, EUROPEAN THEATER OF

                    OPERATION MEDAL, AND THE "RUPTURED DUCK" MEDAL FOR HIS HONORABLE

                    DISCHARGE.  WHEN I MET THIS GENTLEMAN HE -- HIS ZEST FOR LIFE WAS

                    AMAZING.  HE'S THE TYPE OF GUY THAT WOULD BE HERE ON THIS FLOOR WITH US

                    TONIGHT DOING -- ARGUING FOR NEW YORKERS, WHAT HE DID FOR US AS A

                    COUNTRY.

                                 SO ON BEHALF, AGAIN, OF LEADER BARCLAY AND MYSELF,

                    IT'S MY HONOR AND PRIVILEGE TO INTRODUCE HIM AND SAY THANK YOU, MR.

                    SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO BRING THIS FORWARD.  AND THANK YOU SO

                    MUCH HERE ON AN EARLY THURSDAY MORNING.  HAPPY BIRTHDAY, LEO.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  ON THE

                    RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NAY.  THE

                    RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

                                 WE ALSO HAVE A GROUP OF OTHER RESOLUTIONS WE'LL TAKE

                    UP TOGETHER.

                                 ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED,

                    NAY.  THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 1051-1054

                    AND 1056 WERE UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED.)

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                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                            JUNE 1, 2022

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE

                    THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL 10:00 A.M., THURSDAY, JUNE

                    THE 2ND, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.  I WILL SAY THIS, COLLEAGUES.

                    THE SOONER YOU GET IN AND GET SWIPED INTO THE BASE AND GET READY FOR

                    THOSE COMMITTEE MEETINGS THAT WE PROBABLY WILL HAVE TO HAVE -

                    CODES, WAYS AND MEANS AND RULES - THE SOONER WE CAN START SESSION

                    AT 10:00.  HOW ABOUT THAT?  WOULDN'T THAT BE GREAT?  YES, LET'S DO IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI:  THE ASSEMBLY

                    STANDS ADJOURNED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 12:09 A.M., THE HOUSE STOOD

                    ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, JUNE 2ND AT 10:00 A.M., THAT BEING A SESSION

                    DAY.)

























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