THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2023 10:46 A.M.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME

TO ORDER.

IMAM TAHIR WILL OFFER A PRAYER.

IMAM TAHIR KUKAJ: IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST

GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL, MERCIFUL LOVING GOD, WE THANK YOU FOR THIS

BEAUTIFUL DAY. WE THANK YOU FOR OUR GATHERING AND WE THANK YOU FOR

BEING WITH US TODAY, AND WE PRAY THAT YOUR PRESENCE WILL BE WITH US,

WITH OUR ASSEMBLYMEMBERS AS THEY LOOK FORWARD TO SERVE OUR GREAT

STATE OF NEW YORK. GOD ALMIGHTY, IN THE SPIRIT OF FASTING THE MONTH

OF RAMADAN AND PASSOVER, WE ASK YOU THAT THE BLESSINGS OF THIS MONTH

AND PASSOVER TO CONTINUE TO BE WITH OUR MEMBERS, TO REMEMBER THE

GREAT PROPHETS AND RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY, HOW

THEY'VE BEEN SERVING, HOW THEY'VE BEEN LEADERS OF THEIR NATIONS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

DURING OUR HOLIDAYS OF FASTING WE REMEMBER THE LEADERSHIP OF PROPHET

MUSA AS HE LED HIS NATION TO FREEDOM FROM SLAVERY. DURING THESE

HOLIDAYS WE REMEMBER THE FASTING OF MARY, MOTHER OF JESUS, AS SHE SET

AN EXAMPLE OF DISCUSSING NOT WITH THOSE WRONGLY ACCUSE HER. AS WE

TAKE AN EXAMPLE OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD FROM HIS NOBILITY AND

LEADERSHIP, GOD ALMIGHTY WE ASK THAT YOU BLESS EARS OF OUR

ASSEMBLYMEMBERS TO HEAR YOUR VOICE. BLESS THEIR EYES SO THEY CAN

SEE THEIR BOUNTIES, YOUR BLESSINGS. BLESS THEIR HEARTS SO THEY CAN

RECEIVE YOUR LOVE. BLESS THEIR MINDS SO THEY CAN RECEIVE YOUR WISDOM.

GOD ALMIGHTY, BLESS THIS ASSEMBLY, BLESS NEW YORK

STATE, AND ALWAYS, GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. IN YOUR

NAME WE MAKE THIS PRAYER. AMEN.

MEMBERS: AMEN.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: VISITORS ARE INVITED

TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF -- PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY, MARCH 22ND.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO

DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY, MARCH

THE 22ND AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

ORDERED.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR.

COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS, I WOULD LOVE TO SHARE

THIS QUOTE WITH YOU TODAY. THIS ONE IS FROM AUDRE LORDE. SHE WAS AN

AMERICAN WRITER, A FEMINIST, A PROFESSOR AND A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST.

HER WORDS FOR US TODAY, I AM NOT FREE WHILE ANY WOMEN IS UNFREE, EVEN

WHEN HER SHACKLES ARE VERY DIFFERENT FROM MY OWN. AGAIN, THESE

WORDS ARE FROM AUDRE LORDE.

COLLEAGUES SHOULD BE AWARE THAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR

DESK A MAIN CALENDAR. AFTER ANY INTRODUCTIONS AND/OR HOUSEKEEPING

WE WILL BEGIN OUR WORK ON THE FLOOR BY TAKING UP RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE

3. AFTER THAT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP THE FOLLOWING BILLS ON DEBATE:

CALENDAR NO. 10 ON PAGE 6 BY MS. PAULIN, CALENDAR NO. 62 ON PAGE 10

BY MS. PAULIN, AND CALENDAR NO. 68 ON PAGE 11 BY MR. EPSTEIN. AS

WE PROCEED, MR. SPEAKER, THERE MAY BE A NEED FOR FURTHER

ANNOUNCEMENTS REGARDING LEGISLATIVE ACTIVITY; HOWEVER, THAT IS THE

GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE GOING TODAY. IF THERE ARE INTRODUCTIONS

AND HOUSEKEEPING, NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME, SIR.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES. AND WE DO HAVE HOUSEKEEPING.

ON A MOTION BY MS. PAULIN, PAGE 6, CALENDAR NO. 2,

BILL NO. A.117, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.

AND FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION, MR. FALL.

MR. FALL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JUST WANT TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

REALLY THANK IMAM TAHIR FOR BEING HERE WITH US THIS MORNING ON THE

FIRST DAY OF RAMADAN. IT'S NOT EASY TRAVELING A COUPLE HOURS FROM

STATEN ISLAND TO ALBANY DURING RAMADAN, SO THANK, IMAM, FOR BEING

HERE WITH US.

IMAM TAHIR IS THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE ALBANIAN

CULTURAL CENTER OUT ON STATEN ISLAND, AND HE'S ALSO THE HEAD IMAM OF

THE ALBANIAN CULTURAL CENTER, SERVES AS A CHAPLAIN IN THE NYPD AND

ALSO SERVES AS AN ADVISOR TO MAYOR ERIC ADAMS ON HIS CLERGY TASK

FORCE. AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I REALLY APPRECIATE ABOUT

IMAM IS THROUGHOUT THE YEARS HE OFTEN HAS GATHERINGS THAT BRING FOLKS

TOGETHER ON VARIOUS PROJECTS THAT THE COMMUNITY COULD DO TOGETHER.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHEN THERE IS ANY LEVEL OF HATE TOWARD ONE

GROUP HE'S THE FIRST CLERGY MEMBER IN MY DISTRICT THAT BRINGS PEOPLE

TOGETHER TO ENSURE THAT WE SEND A MESSAGE THAT HATE TOWARD ONE IS HATE

TOWARD ALL. AND SO, IMAM TAUGHT HIS REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT

RAMADAN MEANS, RIGHT? YOU KNOW, GOT TO DO A LOT OF SELF-REFLECTION

AND GIVING CHARITY, GIVING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY, OF COURSE, AND OF

COURSE THAT INCLUDES FASTING FROM SUNRISE TO SUNSET.

SO, MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU COULD KINDLY WELCOME IMAM

TAHIR TO THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE AND EXTEND THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF

OF MR. FALL, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, IMAM, WE WELCOME YOU

HERE AGAIN TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY. WE EXTEND TO YOU THE

PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. OUR THANKS FOR YOU PROVIDING PRAYER FOR US, BUT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

ALSO FOR THE GREAT WORKS THAT YOU'RE DOING IN YOUR COMMUNITY AND FOR

THE CITY OF NEW YORK.

IMAM TAHIR KUKAJ: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: GOD BLESS.

IMAM TAHIR KUKAJ: GOD BLESS YOU ALL. THANK

YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WOERNER FOR THE

PURPOSES OF A INTRODUCTION.

MS. WOERNER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. MR.

SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, I RISE TO INTRODUCE A GROUP FROM THE

BEAGLE SCHOOL IN SARATOGA SPRINGS. THEY ARE HERE IN THE CAPITOL TODAY

TO COMMEMORATE THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE START OF THE BEAGLE

SCHOOL. THIS WAS A RESOLUTION THAT WE TOOK UP ON THE FLOOR A FEW

WEEKS AGO AND THEY ARE HERE TO RECEIVE THEIR RESOLUTION AND BE

WELCOMED BY ALL OF YOU IN THE CHAMBER. SO JOINING US TODAY IS JESSICA

TODTENHAGEN, THE DIRECTOR; JENNIFER TAYLOR, THE BOARD PRESIDENT; ANNA

QUERRARD AND AUDREY MOORE, WHO ARE BOTH PARENTS OF STUDENTS AT THE

BEAGLE SCHOOL. WE HAVE SOME YOUNG STUDENTS. WE HAVE ASLYN

(PHONETIC) MOORE, WE HAVE FREDDIE AND GEORGE ENGLISH. WE HAVE AN

ALUMNI, PATRICK LADD, WHO IS NOW WITH PLUG POWER. WE HAVE MARIE

ENGLISH, WHO IS ALSO A BOARD -- A PARENT AND A BOARD MEMBER, AND

DEIRDRE LADD, WHO IS AN ALUMNI PARENT. THEY ARE ALL HERE FROM THE

BEAGLE SCHOOL, WHICH WAS STARTED IN 1972 AS A PRESCHOOL AND HAS

REMAINED COMMITTED TO EDUCATING YOUNG CHILDREN THROUGH THE ART OF

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

CREATIVE PLAY FOR NOW OVER 50 DECADES -- FIVE DECADES. THE BEAGLE

SCHOOL, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, IS NOT NAMED AFTER THE BREED OF DOG, AS

YOU MAY THINK, BUT RATHER AFTER THE RENOUNCED SCIENTIST CHARLES

DARWIN'S FAMOUS SHIP, THE HMS BEAGLE, IN WHICH HE FAMOUSLY SET OUT

FROM HOLLAND TO EXPLORE THE NATURAL WORLD. UNDER THE DIRECTION OF ITS

-- OF ITS CURRENT -- UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF ITS CURRENT DIRECTOR, JESSICA

TODTENHAGEN, THE BEAGLE SCHOOL HAS FOR OVER 50 YEARS FOCUSED ON

FOSTERING A SENSE OF WONDER AND CURIOSITY IN CHILDREN, INSPIRING A

LIFETIME LOVE OF LEARNING. FIFTY YEARS OF PRESCHOOL EDUCATION TEACHING

THE IMPORTANCE OF LIFE SKILLS AND SELF-HELP SKILLS, OUTDOOR PLAY AND THE

DRAMATIC ARTS, MATH AND LANGUAGE, COMMUNITY AND KINDNESS HAVE ALL

HELPED TO PREPARE THE YOUTH OF TODAY FOR TO BE LEADERS OF TOMORROW,

AND IT'S TRULY A WONDERFUL AND CELEBRATORY ACCOMPLISHMENT.

SO, MR. SPEAKER, I HOPE YOU WILL JOIN ME IN

CONGRATULATING THE BEAGLE SCHOOL ON 50 YEARS AND ON WELCOMING THESE

FINE PEOPLE TO OUR CHAMBER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF

OF MS. WOERNER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME THIS

EXTRAORDINARY GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS FROM AN EXTRAORDINARY SCHOOL TO THE

NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY. WE CONGRATULATE YOU AND THE INSTITUTION

ON 50 YEARS OF GREAT SERVICE TO YOUR COMMUNITY. WE WOULD HOPE FOR

ANOTHER 50 YEARS IN ORDER FOR YOU TO CONTINUE THAT GREAT MISSION THAT

YOU HAVE AND THAT YOU HAVE ALLOWED CHILDREN TO GROW IN A WAY THAT IS

ESPECIALLY SPECIAL TODAY IN THIS TIME. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING

HERE. PLEASE ENJOY YOUR TRIP HERE TO ALBANY. THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

(APPLAUSE)

RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY -- ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION

NO. 227, MS. BYRNES.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MARCH 24, 2023 AS WOMEN IN AGRICULTURE

DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. BYRNES ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU, SIR. MR. SPEAKER, MAY I

BE HEARD ON THE RESOLUTION?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PLEASE.

MS. BYRNES: AS WE CELEBRATE WOMEN'S HISTORY

MONTH, I FEEL THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THE WOMEN IN AGRICULTURE.

FARMING IS NOT JUST A JOB, IT'S A WAY OF LIFE WITH DEEP ROOTS IN THE SOIL.

MANY FAMILIES HAVE FARMED THE SAME LAND FOR MULTIPLE GENERATIONS.

SOME EVEN TRACE THEIR ROOTS IN THE LAND BACK TO THE EARLY 1700S.

ACCORDING TO THE USDA, WOMEN HAVE PLAYED A CRUCIAL ROLE IN FARMING

ACROSS THIS COUNTRY AND AROUND THE GLOBE FOR CENTURIES. RIGHT NOW THE

PRESIDENT OF MY LOCAL FARM BUREAU IS CLAIRE MULLIGAN, FOURTH

GENERATION FARMER. THEY DO CROP AND DAIRY. AND BEFORE HER THE

PRESIDENT WAS LESLIE HAMILTON FROM TRIPLE H FARMS. THEY'RE CROP

FARMERS. AND I KNOW THAT LIVINGSTON COUNTY IS YET NOT UNIQUE WITH

THE NUMBER OF WOMEN FARMERS OR THEIR ROLES BOTH WITH THE FARM

BUREAU AND WITH AGRICULTURE IN GENERAL. OUR WOMEN IN AGRICULTURE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

VALUE THE PAST AND WORK TOWARDS PRESERVING FARMLAND, YET THEY ALSO

INCORPORATE INNOVATIVE FARMING TECHNIQUES AS THEY PLAN FOR ALL OF OUR

FUTURES. THEY ARE GREAT STEWARDS OF THE LAND. I AM SO PROUD TO

RECOGNIZE THE WOMEN WHO FARM OUR LAND, MILK OUR COWS, FIX THE

EQUIPMENT, MANAGE AND RUN DIFFICULT BUSINESSES, AND ALSO RAISE THE

NEXT GENERATION WHO WILL ALSO LOVE THIS LAND.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MS.

BYRNES.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION -- THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

(APPLAUSE)

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 228, MS.

ROSENTHAL.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM 8:30 P.M. THROUGH 9:30 P.M. ON SATURDAY,

MARCH 25, 2023 AS EARTH HOUR IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL

THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

PAGE 6, CALENDAR NO. 10, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01287, CALENDAR NO.

10, PAULIN, MCDONOUGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW,

IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING THE SALE OF INFANT LOUNGERS AND RESTRICTING THE

USE OF SUCH INFANT LOUNGERS IN CERTAIN SETTINGS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PAULIN, AN

EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.

MS. PAULIN: YES, THANK YOU. THE BILL BANS THE SALE

OF INFANT LOUNGERS AND RESTRICTS THEIR USE IN CHILDCARE FACILITIES UNLESS A

MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL HAS DETERMINED IT MEDICALLY NECESSARY FOR A

PARTICULAR CHILD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PAULIN YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. PAULIN. AM I

CORRECT THAT THE -- THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE MANUFACTURER IN THE UNITED

STATES THAT MADE THESE INFANT LOUNGERS, THEY -- THEY NO LONGER

MANUFACTURE THEM AND THAT THEY HAVE A NATIONWIDE RECALL?

MS. PAULIN: WELL, SINCE WE'VE HAD THAT

CONVERSATION WE'VE ACTUALLY UNCOVERED THAT THERE IS A COUPLE OF OTHER

LOUNGERS STILL ON THE MARKET. VERY FEW, BUT THERE ARE SOME. BUT THERE

IS ONE, AS YOU POINT OUT, ONE MAJOR MANUFACTURER, YES. WAS ONE.

MR. GOODELL: WAS ONE. AND WHEN DID THEY HAVE

THEIR RECALL?

MS. PAULIN: THEY HAD THEIR RECALL WITH -- RIGHT

AFTER THE BAN. RIGHT -- RIGHT -- RIGHT AFTER IT WAS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT

THERE WERE CHILDREN DYING FROM BEING IN THESE.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND THE OTHER

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MANUFACTURERS, ARE THEY --

MS. PAULIN: WE -- WE -- THERE'S -- WE HAVEN'T SEEN

THAT. WE'VE LOOKED. WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT THEY HAVE. WE DON'T KNOW

THAT THERE'S THAT MANY OUT THERE, BUT WE DO KNOW THERE'S SOME.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. ARE THERE -- WHEN WAS THIS

RECALL CONDUCTED?

MS. PAULIN: SO, THE EXACT DATE I'M NOT SURE I HAVE

HERE. I DON'T -- I DON'T HAVE THAT IN MY FILE. I CAN GET BACK TO YOU ON

THAT.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. BUT IT WAS -- IT WASN'T

RECENTLY.

MS. PAULIN: NO, NO. IT WAS -- IT WAS AT LEAST ONE

YEAR AGO.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, THIS LEGISLATION DOES NOT BAN

THE POSSESSION OF THESE INFANT LOUNGERS, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: SO THE ONLY THING THAT IS BANNED IS

THE SALE, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.

GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: I -- I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S

CONCERN ABOUT THE SAFETY OF INFANT LOUNGERS, AND -- AND THAT'S WHY THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

LARGEST MANUFACTURER ACTUALLY STOPPED MANUFACTURING IT AND HAD A FULL

RECALL. AND SO THE REAL QUESTION THEN IS, WHY SHOULD THE NEW YORK

STATE LEGISLATURE PASS LEGISLATION THAT BANS PRODUCTS THAT HAVE ALREADY

BEEN RECALLED? NOW, WE DON'T BAN THEIR POSSESSION NOR THEIR USE, JUST

THE SALE. AND SO I UNDERSTAND THAT IN THEORY WE'RE WORKING ON A $230

BILLION BUDGET. WE MIGHT BEST SPEND OUR TIME FOCUSING ON ISSUES OTHER

THAN BANNING PRODUCTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN RECALLED.

AND FOR THAT REASON I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THAT WE

ADD MORE VOLUME TO OUR ALREADY VOLUMINOUS STATUTORY PROVISIONS.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WHILE WE

CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S INTENT, WE DON'T THINK THE LEGISLATION

IS NECESSARY IN GENERAL AND ACCORDINGLY, THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE

WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED. BUT CERTAINLY, ANY MEMBER WHO WISHES TO

VOTE IN FAVOR CAN DO SO HERE ON THE FLOOR OF THE ASSEMBLY.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT WOULD SUPPORT AND PROTECT BABIES, AND SO

WE'RE GOING BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS ONE, SIR.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 10, CALENDAR NO. 62, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04157, CALENDAR NO.

62, PAULIN, VANEL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO

THE USE OF AUTOMATIC LICENSE PLATE READER SYSTEMS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION, MS.

PAULIN, IS ALSO REQUESTED.

MS. PAULIN: YES. THE BILL WOULD CREATE STANDARDS

FOR THE USE OF AUTOMATIC LICENSE PLATE READER TECHNOLOGY BY LAW

ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MORINELLO.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PAULIN, WILL YOU

YIELD?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MS. PAULIN: YES, I'D BE HAPPY TO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I SEE

THAT THIS BILL WAS ORIGINALLY INTRODUCED IN 2019 AND PASSED THIS BODY;

IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MORINELLO: AND THEN IT WAS AGAIN REPEATED

IN 2020 AND PASSED THIS BODY, AND THEN IT WAS ALSO INTRODUCED IN 2021

AND IT WAS HELD; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: I KNOW THAT I'VE IT PASSED IT A COUPLE

OF TIMES. I MAYBE DIDN'T OPT TO DEBATE IT LAST YEAR, I DON'T REMEMBER.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, THE REASON -- THE REASON I

WENT THROUGH THAT HISTORY IS THROUGH -- THROUGH THAT, THE MUNICIPAL

POLICE TRAINING COUNCIL OF THE DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE IN

MARCH OF 2021 PRODUCED A FIVE-PAGE LICENSE PLATE READER'S MODEL

POLICY. IS THAT WHAT THIS BILL IS ASKING FOR?

MS. PAULIN: THE BILL IS ACTUALLY ASKING FOR THAT

POLICY -- YES, FOR THE POLICY TO BE DEVELOPED BUT ALSO TO BE -- FOR POLICE

OFFICERS TO BE TRAINED ON THAT POLICY AND FOR THAT POLICY TO BE POSTED ON

LOCAL WEBSITES.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. I WAS ABLE TO FIND THAT

POLICY ON MY WEBSITE BY JUST GOOGLING IT. SO IT IS AVAILABLE ON -- ON

READERS, ON GOOGLE AND OTHER AREAS. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I HAVE

CHECKED WITH ALL OF THE POLICE AGENCIES THROUGH MY SHERIFF'S

DEPARTMENT AND EVERY POLICE AGENCY IN THEIR TRAINING HAS THIS POLICY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

THAT THEY PUT IN PLACE. IS THE SPONSOR AWARE OF THAT?

MS. PAULIN: SO, WE'RE AWARE THAT THEY'RE BEGINNING

TO TRAIN POLICE OFFICERS ON THIS POLICY. WE DON'T -- HAVE NOT HEARD THAT

IT'S STATEWIDE, THAT -- AND THAT ONCE POLICE OFFICERS ARE TRAINED, THE

QUESTION BECOMES, YOU KNOW, IS THIS POLICY THEN PART OF AN ONGOING

TRAINING? WE HAVEN'T HEARD THAT EITHER. SO THIS WOULD REQUIRE THAT,

AND IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE -- THIS BILL RESULTED FROM A LOCAL INCIDENT

THAT WE HAD WHERE POLICE OFFICERS WERE USING THIS TECHNOLOGY TO -- TO --

TO STALK A PARTICULAR WOMAN, A GIRLFRIEND OR A WIFE, I'M NOT SURE WHICH,

BUT... SO WE KNOW THAT IT WAS BEING ABUSED, AND THIS MAKES IT FRONT AND

CENTER THAT THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE, THAT IT'S A VIOLATION OF THE POLICY. THAT,

YOU KNOW, WE -- IT'S TRANSPARENT, IT'S ON THE LOCAL PRECINCTS' EITHER

WEBSITE OR POSTED. AND, YOU KNOW, WE THINK THEN POLICE OFFICERS

WOULDN'T BE INCLINED TO ABUSE IT IF IT WAS MORE VISIBLE.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, I ALSO HAVE CHECKED WITH

VARIOUS POLICE ACADEMIES, AND IN THEIR TRAINING THEY DO UTILIZE THE

INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE MODEL POLICY. ARE YOU AWARE OF THAT?

MS. PAULIN: BUT REMEMBER, THE ACADEMIES ARE FOR

THE NEW POLICE OFFICERS. YOU KNOW, THIS INCIDENT WAS BY POLICE

OFFICERS THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN TRAINED PRIOR TO THE ENACTMENT OF -- OF

THESE POLICIES. SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IT'S TO MAKE NOT JUST THE NEWER

POLICE OFFICERS, BUT EVERYONE, AWARE THAT TECHNOLOGY CHANGES AND THAT

THIS IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR FOR POLICE TO -- TO USE IT IN AN

INAPPROPRIATE WAY.

MR. MORINELLO: SO THE INCIDENT YOU REFER TO, WAS

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

THAT PRIOR TO THE 2021 MARCH PRODUCTION OF THE MODEL POLICY?

MS. PAULIN: I DON'T KNOW -- REMEMBER -- OR

REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN THIS WAS HAPPENING. I CAN CERTAINLY LET YOU

KNOW, BUT I DON'T HAVE 100 PERCENT RECALL, YOU KNOW, WHEN -- WHEN

THAT WAS OCCURRING.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MORINELLO: IT SEEMS THAT LATELY THIS BODY IS

PRODUCING BILLS THAT ARE UNNECESSARY, THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN COVERED.

IF THERE WAS A VIOLATION PRIOR TO 2021, THAT HAS BEEN RESOLVED BECAUSE

THIS BILL ORIGINALLY STARTED IN 2019 AND THEN THROUGH THE PROGRESSION A

SET OF POLICIES BY THE DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE HAS RESULTED. IT

SEEMS THAT THERE MAY BE INTERNAL VIOLATIONS THAT NEED TO BE PROSECUTED.

BUT TO CLOG UP THE RULES, LAWS OF -- OF THIS STATE TO ADD BILLS -- TO ADD

LAWS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARY THAT ARE ALREADY COVERED I THINK IS AN

INJUSTICE TO THE TAXPAYERS AND IT'S A COSTLY PROCESS THAT IS NOT NEEDED.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. ANGELINO.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. ANGELINO: SO HERE WE GO AGAIN. WE HAVE

ONE INCIDENT THAT TOOK PLACE IN THIS STATE SOME TIME AGO, AND THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

PRIVACY OF AN INDIVIDUAL WAS LIKELY VIOLATED AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN

TAKEN CARE OF INTERNALLY BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT DISCIPLINARY PANEL. BUT

WE'RE CREATING A LAW BECAUSE I THINK IT'S BECOME VERY VOGUE TO CREATE

LAWS THAT ARE SOMEHOW CONTROLLING OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS OF

OUR STATE.

I WANT TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE INSIDE BASEBALL ON LICENSE

PLATE READERS, HAVING BEEN AN OPERATOR OF A PLATE READER AND SUPERVISED

SCORES OF OFFICERS WHO DID OPERATE THEM. THE -- THE PLATE READER IN THE

CAR IS JUST ONE OTHER TOOL THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS. AND IF YOU'RE

CONCERNED ABOUT PRIVACY, IT DOES NOT RUN EVERY LICENSE PLATE THAT YOU

SEE. IT CHECKS A DATABASE FOR FLAGGED LICENSE PLATES. FLAGGED LICENSE

PLATES; A STOLEN CAR, SOMEBODY WANTED IN A KIDNAPPING, A SUSPICIOUS

INCIDENT. THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE -- THAT ARE FLAGGED AND THAT ARE

PUT INTO A LICENSE PLATE READER. SO AS YOU'RE OPERATING A PATROL CAR WITH

A PLATE READER ON IT AND YOU'RE DRIVING THROUGH A PARKING LOT AS FAST AS

YOU CAN DRIVE, IT IS -- IT IS LOOKING AT EVERY LICENSE PLATE. YOU KNOW

WHAT ELSE IT LOOKS AT? IT LOOKS AT THE NUMBERS ON PIZZA BOXES, IT LOOKS

AT THE TELEPHONE NUMBERS ON THE SIDES OF TRUCKS. AND A REAL FAVORITE OF

LICENSE PLATE READERS IS THE REALTOR SIGNS ALONG THE CURBLINE. IT PICKS UP

ALL OF THOSE, ALSO. THE OFFICERS ARE TRAINED, TRAINED AND TRAINED AGAIN

EVERY YEAR ON HOW TO -- HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE INFORMATION THAT THE

PLATE READER IS -- IS LOOKING AT. AND IT'S ONLY THOSE FLAGGED NUMBERS

THAT POP UP AND ALERT AN OFFICER IN THE CAR. FRANKLY, THE OFFICERS IN CARS

ARE PRETTY BUSY ABOUT ALL OF THE THINGS GOING ON AROUND THEM. THE

PLATE READER IS NOT REALLY HIGH ON THEIR LIST UNLESS THEY'RE A TRAFFIC

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

OFFICER OR A PARKING ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. SO THE PRIVACY OF INDIVIDUALS

IS NOT BEING VIOLATED WITH THESE UNLESS YOU DON'T HAVE INSURANCE ON

YOUR CAR OR YOUR CAR HAS BEEN STOLEN. THAT'S WHAT GETS ENTERED INTO THE

PLATE READER.

THE -- THE PLATE READER IS A FANTASTIC TOOL, IT'S BEEN

AROUND FOR AT LEAST 20 YEARS. I KNOW THE AGENCY I SUPERVISED, WE GOT

OURS I THINK IN 2004 OR 2005, AND SINCE THAT TIME THERE'S BEEN ALL KINDS

OF POLICIES AND PRIVACY CONCERNS BEING ADDRESSED. SO FOR EVERY LAW

ENFORCEMENT AGENCY TO HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH POSTING THIS ON A

WEBSITE, WITH HAVING THIS IN THEIR ACADEMIES, WHICH IT ALREADY IS, BUT

THIS WHOLE THING IS MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING. AND NOT TO TAKE AWAY

FROM WHATEVER OFFICERS IT WAS THAT DID THE WRONGDOING AND WHATEVER

THE INCIDENT WAS, I'M SURE THAT'S BEEN DEALT WITH. BUT TO PAINT A BROAD

BRUSH OF ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES IS JUST NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MS. GIGLIO.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PAULIN?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PAULIN YIELDS.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU. SO, YOU REFERRED TO ONE

SPECIFIC CASE WHICH IS WHY WE ARE HAVING THIS LAW BEFORE US TODAY,

CORRECT?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MS. PAULIN: SO, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THE DEPUTY

MAYOR OF THE -- OF THE CITY CAME TO ME AND SAID THIS WOULD -- WE

SHOULD DO THIS STATEWIDE BECAUSE THEY WERE CONCERNED THAT THIS KIND OF

INCIDENT WAS EASILY REPEATABLE. AND -- AND SO IT WAS THROUGH THAT

CONVERSATION THAT THIS LAW WAS DRAFTED, OR THIS BILL WAS DRAFTED.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. AND THEN SO WAS THE OFFICER

THAT WAS USING THE PLATE READER, WAS HE A VETERAN, WAS HE A NEW LAW

ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WAS HE GETTING HIS ANNUAL TRAINING?

MS. PAULIN: I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS STATUS

WAS. SO, YOU KNOW, I -- I JUST DON'T KNOW. I DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T ASK THE

DEPUTY MAYOR.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. BECAUSE THE USES OF PLATE

READERS AS I KNOW THEM, AND BEING A FORMER POLICE COMMISSIONER IN

THE TOWN THAT I WAS ON THE CITY COUNCIL FOR, WE HAD USED IT FOR

REGISTRATION AND INSURANCE TO KEEP OTHER DRIVERS ON THE ROAD SAFE.

BECAUSE THE PLATE READERS WOULD READ IF YOUR REGISTRATION WAS EXPIRED,

IF YOUR INSURANCE WAS EXPIRED, AND THAT WAS A REVENUE SOURCE FOR THE

STATE OF NEW YORK ALSO, AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, KEEPING PEOPLE SAFE ON

THE ROADS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE INSURANCE AND THEIR CARS ARE

REGISTERED. AND AS MY OTHER COLLEAGUE STATED, NOT A STOLEN CAR OR, YOU

KNOW, NOT A CAR THAT'S ON THE RUN WITH A CHILD BASED ON A CALL FOR, YOU

KNOW, A CHILD THAT'S MISSING. IT'S A TOOL THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT USES

WHEN THERE ARE THESE AMBER ALERTS AND OTHER ALERTS, AND I JUST -- I FEAR

THAT BY CREATING A LAW SUCH AS THIS YOU'RE GOING TO DISCOURAGE LAW

ENFORCEMENT FROM USING THE PLATE READERS AND THEY'RE JUST GOING TO LET

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

THE CARS GO BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BE SCRUTINIZED AS TO HOW THEY

USED THE PLATE READER. AND I'VE READ OTHER BILLS THAT HAVE COME ACROSS

THIS WEEK THAT ARE REALLY ABOUT RACIAL -- RACIAL PROFILING. YOU KNOW,

WE'VE DONE AWAY WITH THAT, WE'VE DONE AWAY WITH MANY THINGS, MANY

TOOLS THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT USES. AND I JUST THINK THIS IS ANOTHER TOOL

OUT OF THE TOOLBOX AND ANOTHER TOOL TO BE USED AGAINST LAW ENFORCEMENT

IF THEY SHOULD WRITE A TICKET ON THE PLATE READER.

SO, I'M SORRY TO KEEP YOU STANDING. AND THAT WAS ON

THE BILL. AND THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RAMOS.

MR. RAMOS: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW

QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. PAULIN, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. RAMOS: MS. PAULIN, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND

THE BILL. WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT CALLS FOR A STUDY TO CREATE UNIFORM

STANDARDS UNDER THE USE OF LICENSE PLATE READERS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

IS THAT WHAT THIS BILL DOES?

MS. PAULIN: IT GOES FURTHER THAN THAT. IT ACTUALLY

REQUIRES THE POLICE OFFICERS GET TRAINED AND THAT THIS POLICY THEN IS

POSTED LOCALLY.

MR. RAMOS: SO MAKING UNIFORM STANDARDS AND

ASSURING THAT ALL POLICE OFFICERS UNDERSTAND THOSE STANDARDS.

MS. PAULIN: YES.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MR. RAMOS: AND THAT THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS THE --

THE AMOUNT OF INTRUSION THAT THIS -- THIS PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY WOULD

HAVE ON -- ON THEIR PERSONAL LIVES, RIGHT?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. RAMOS: THANK YOU.

ON THE BILL, SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. RAMOS: IN MY DISTRICT I FUNDED LICENSE PLATE

READERS, ABOUT 70 LICENSE PLATE READERS THAT -- THAT KIND OF PUT A CYBER

(INAUDIBLE) OVER MY COMMUNITY. AND THIS WAS IN RESPONSE TO A

SITUATION WHERE WE HAD OVER 12 GANG MURDERS IN ONE YEAR IN MY

DISTRICT. AND WHAT -- WHAT THIS DID IS IT ALLOWED POLICE OFFICERS TO HAVE

WHAT'S CALLED A "COLD HIT." AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, I WAS A POLICE

OFFICER FOR -- FOR 20 YEARS, AND I REALIZED THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY WOULD

GIVE US A TOOL FOR -- TO SOLVE CRIME. SO IN OTHER WORDS, IN THE ABSENCE

OF ANY INFORMATION, A BURGLARY HAPPENS OR A MURDER HAPPENS, YOU HAVE

NO INFORMATION, NOBODY SAW ANYTHING, BUT THE POLICE WOULD KNOW

EVERY CAR THAT LEFT THAT PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD AT THE TIME OF THE -- OF

THE MURDER, OF THE CRIME. IT'S A VERY USEFUL TOOL. BUT AT THE SAME TIME

IT'S A TOOL THAT CAN BE ABUSED. AND -- AND MOST POLICE OFFICERS WOULD

NOT ABUSE IT, MOST POLICE OFFICERS USE IT FOR INVESTIGATIVE PURPOSES. BUT

WE ALL KNOW HOW PEOPLE IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES, YOU KNOW, HAVE

INDISCRETIONS AND DO THINGS. YOU KNOW, A POLICE OFFICER COULD POSSIBLY

FOLLOW AROUND HIS GIRLFRIEND, FIGURE OUT WHERE SHE IS BECAUSE THIS IS IN

-- IN -- THIS IS MAPPED OUT SO THAT YOU CAN'T GO ANYWHERE IN MY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

COMMUNITY WITHOUT PASSING ONE OF THESE CAMERAS. IF A BURGLARY

OCCURS, NOT ONLY DO WE KNOW EVERY CAR THAT LEFT THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT

THAT COULD BE TRACKED TO WHEREVER IT WENT. IF THAT HAPPENED THE

DESTINATION OF THAT CAR WAS IN THE COMMUNITY, THAT WOULD BE -- THAT

WOULD TELL THE POLICE OFFICERS WHERE THAT WENT. SO IF -- IF SOMEBODY

WENT TO ABUSE THAT, THEY COULD VERY WELL ABUSE IT. AND EVERY POLICE

DEPARTMENT IN NEW YORK STATE HAS DIFFERENT RULES AND PROCEDURES. WE

DON'T HAVE THE SAME STANDARDS ACROSS THE BOARD. SO I THINK IT'S

IMPORTANT THAT WE PROTECT -- WE ALLOW THIS TO BE USED, WE MAKE SURE

THAT OFFICERS FULLY UNDERSTAND IT, AND WE PROTECT THE PUBLIC. I MEAN,

THAT -- THAT'S WHAT -- WHAT'S SO BEAUTIFUL ABOUT OUR COUNTRY IS THAT WE

HAVE A BALANCE OF EVERYTHING. THIS BILL JUST PUTS THAT PROTECTION THERE

SO THAT IT'S NOT ABUSE.

NOW, IN -- IN MY PARTICULAR COUNTY, WHEN I FUNDED

THIS I INSISTED THAT THE PROTOCOL BE THAT THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD ACCESS

THIS -- A POLICE OFFICER COULD ACCESS THIS INFORMATION IS IF THEY DRAW A --

A CASE NUMBER OF A CRIME. A POLICE OFFICER SAYS, THIS CRIME OCCURRED,

AND THE POLICE OFFICER WOULD HAVE TO FILL OUT A FORM AND EXPLAIN THE

NEXUS BETWEEN THE INFORMATION THAT HE IS REQUEST -- HE OR SHE IS

REQUESTING AND THE CRIME THAT WAS COMMITTED SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST

ANYBODY WHO IS CURIOUS OR IT'S NOT JUST PERHAPS A POLITICIAN WHO

HAPPENS TO KNOW A COP AND WANTS TO KNOW WHERE HIS OPPONENT IS

GOING AROUND. THIS COULD BE ABUSED IN SO MANY WAYS. AND I DON'T SEE

WHY THERE WOULD BE ANY OBJECTION TO HAVE A UNIFORM STANDARD THAT

ALLOWS POLICE OFFICERS TO USE THIS MAGNIFICENT TOOL AND AT THE SAME TIME

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

PROTECTS -- PROTECTS THE PRIVACY OF OUR CITIZENRY.

MR. SPEAKER, I URGE EVERYBODY TO VOTE YES ON THIS BILL.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 365TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THOSE WHO

SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY VOTE IN FAVOR HERE ON THE FLOOR.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT BOTH HONORS OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT AS WELL

AS PROTECTS OUR CITIZENS.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. AS IN THE PAST, A

GOOD IDEA THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN IMPLEMENTED. AND WHEN THIS BILL WAS

FIRST INTRODUCED IN 2019 IT WASN'T A UNIFORM STANDARD. THAT UNIFORM

STANDARD HAS BEEN DEVELOPED. AS MY COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE

AISLE WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT POINT OUT, THESE

LICENSE PLATE READ -- READERS ARE VERY VALUABLE, AND EVEN BEFORE THE

UNIFORM POLICY, THE LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENTS HAD CLEAR STANDARDS

ALREADY IN PLACE. SO I GET FRUSTRATED WHEN WE START FROM THE PREMISE

THAT THE POLICE ARE INCOMPETENT AND DON'T HAVE ANY POLICIES WHEN THAT'S

JUST NOT TRUE. AND WE HAVE A BILL THAT CALLS FOR A UNIFORM STANDARD

WHEN WE ALREADY HAVE ONE. FOR THAT REASON I CAN'T SUPPORT IT. I

RECOGNIZE THAT WHENEVER YOU HAVE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE

WHO ARE ENGAGED IN ANY OCCUPATION, THERE WILL BE FROM TIME TO TIME,

AN ABUSE. AND THAT WHEN THAT HAPPENS WE DON'T NEED TO PASS A LAW

CALLING FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF STANDARDS THAT ALREADY EXIST. WHEN

THAT HAPPENS, THE LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENTS CAN, SHOULD AND DO TAKE

APPROPRIATE STEPS.

FOR THAT REASON I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THIS. THANK

YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. ANGELINO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. TO

EXPLAIN WHY I AM VOTING NO, LUCKILY, NEW YORK STATE FOR A LONG TIME

HAS HAD THE DIVISION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICES, AND A BRANCH OF THAT

IS THE MUNICIPAL POLICE TRAINING COUNCIL. THEY'RE ALL TRAINED

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

PROFESSIONALS, THEY ALL LOOK OUT FOR THE WELFARE OF THE PEOPLE OF THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. THEY ARE A NEUTRAL AGENCY, AND THEY ARE VERY

MUCH CONCERNED WITH HOW PROPERLY LAW ENFORCEMENT CONDUCTS THEIR

DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS. THEY PROBABLY HEARD ABOUT INCIDENTS OF

MISUSE, AND MAYBE EVEN THE ONE IN THE 88TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT THAT THE

SPONSOR MENTIONED. THEY REACTED TO THAT. THEY PUT OUT A MODEL

POLICY FOR ALL AGENCIES IN THE STATE. ALL AGENCIES IN THE STATE WITH A

LICENSE PLATE READER SYSTEM, OR MORE THAN ONE, NOW CONFERS WITH DCJS

ON HOW TO DO THIS. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO

SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD.

THIS IS AN UNNECESSARY CHAPTER IN OUR LONG HISTORY OF

LAWS IN NEW YORK STATE THAT OVER -- LOOKS OVER THE SHOULDER OF LAW

ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND IT'S JUST NOT NEEDED AND I'LL BE VOTING NO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ANGELINO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. GIGLIO.

MR. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AS

EVERYBODY SHOULD KNOW, ALMOST EVERY POLICE DEPARTMENT IN THE STATE

OF NEW YORK HAS SOMETHING CALLED THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL

STANDARDS. AND WHEN AND IF SOMEBODY WITHIN YOUR DEPARTMENT

VIOLATES ANY LAW OR MISCHARACTERIZES ANYTHING OR DOES ANYTHING WRONG,

THAT'S USUALLY REFERRED TO THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS. WE

DEAL WITH THAT IN-HOUSE, AND ANYBODY THAT DOES SOMETHING LIKE WAS

DESCRIBED BY THE SPONSOR IS PUNISHED FOR IT. THIS LAW IS NOT NECESSARY.

I THINK WE CAN DEPEND ON THEM TO DO THE RIGHT THING ALL THE TIME.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'LL BE VOTING NO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GIGLIO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. TAYLOR TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. TAYLOR: GOOD MORNING, MR. SPEAKER, AND

THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I THINK THIS IS A GREAT

PIECE OF LEGISLATION. IT'S ACCOUNTABILITY, IT'S CHECK-AND-BALANCE AND

ALLOWS PEOPLE TO NOT GO OFF ON A WHIM. AND WE KNOW NATIONALLY WHEN

WE LOOK AT SCENARIOS ACROSS OUR NATION WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

COURTESY AND PROFESSIONALISM AND WHAT FOLKS OUGHT NOT DO, WE WOULD

NOT HAVE HAD THE RODNEY KINGS, WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD THE SITUATION

IN MEMPHIS, WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE BLUE WALLS OF SILENCE.

PROFESSIONAL COURTESY IS GREAT WHEN IT'S AT WORK, AND THIS IS JUST ANOTHER

TOOL TO HELP THOSE DO THE JOB MUCH BETTER.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. TAYLOR IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. MCGOWAN.

MR. MCGOWAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU

KNOW, I STAND HERE TODAY IN OPPOSITION. I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE

ON THIS BILL. YOU KNOW, IN MY CAREER AS A -- AS A PROSECUTOR, BOTH IN

BRONX COUNTY AS WELL AS ROCKLAND COUNTY, I WORKED WITH LAW

ENFORCEMENT MEMBERS IN ALL DIFFERENT AGENCIES AND CAPACITIES. I WAS A

FORMER INSTRUCTOR AT THE ROCKLAND COUNTY POLICY ACADEMY, MY TIME IN

THE ROCKLAND COUNTY DAS OFFICE, AND IN MY PRIVATE PRACTICE I'VE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

REPRESENTED POLICE OFFICERS FOR YEARS. AND POLICE OFFICERS ARE TRAINED

ON VIRTUALLY EVERY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT THEY UTILIZE, INCLUDING

LICENSE PLATE READERS, WHICH ARE A VALUABLE TOOL TO PROTECT OUR

COMMUNITIES WHEN CHILDREN ARE MISSING, WHEN THERE'S AN ABDUCTION,

WHEN THERE'S A CRIME COMMITTED. THIS IS A -- AN ESSENTIAL RESOURCE THAT

WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY FOR TO BETTER OUR COMMUNITIES AND MAKE US

SAFER. AND TO STAND HERE TODAY AND SAY THAT POLICE OFFICERS ARE NOT

TRAINED ON THIS OR THEY'RE INCOMPETENT IS FRANKLY INSULTING. I THINK THIS

IS -- THIS LEGISLATION REALLY EXTENDS A THINLY-VEILED ATTEMPT TO DISPARAGE

POLICE OFFICERS WHEN WE NEED OUR OFFICERS TO KNOW THAT WE SUPPORT

THEM. AND TO IGNORE THE FACT THAT THEY ARE ALREADY TRAINED AND TO TRY TO

PASS THIS LEGISLATION IS SIMPLY I THINK THE WRONG MESSAGE THAT THIS BODY

IS SENDING TO OUR OFFICERS AND TO OUR STATE.

SO I STAND HERE TODAY IN THE NEGATIVE. THE FACT THAT

ONE INCIDENT OCCURRED THAT HAS RESULTED IN THIS LEGISLATION, I -- I THINK

THERE ARE BETTER USES OF OUR TIME. WE NEED TO TRUST OUR OFFICERS, WE

NEED TO TRUST THE TRAINING INSTITUTIONS, THE AGENCIES THAT -- THAT SUPPORT

THEM AND DO PROVIDE TRAINING, AND WE NEED TO FIND OTHERS WAYS TO

SPEND OUR TIME. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MCGOWAN IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. REILLY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. LICENSE

PLATE READER'S MODEL -- MODEL POLICY, MARCH 2021, MUNICIPAL POLICE

TRAINING COUNCIL. IT ALREADY EXISTS. THEY -- THEY'VE GARNERED ALL THIS

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

INFORMATION AND PUT IT INTO A, HMM, NINE-PAGE DOCUMENT WITH ALL OUR

POLICE AGENCIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE ADDING THE PERMISSIBLE USE. IF

YOU READ THAT DOCUMENT, IT DELINEATES EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

BUT THE REASON WHY I RISE AND EXPLAIN MY VOTE IS BECAUSE WE'RE TAKING

URGENCY OVER ONE INCIDENT. THERE ARE OTHER LAWS THAT WE NEED TO FIX

THAT WE CONTINUOUSLY HEAR MULTIPLE INCIDENTS THROUGHOUT THE DAY, AND

THOSE PERVIATE AROUND CRIME. AND WE SHOULD BE TAKING THAT UP, NOT

TAKING UP SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXISTS.

SO FOR THAT REASON, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING IN

THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. REILLY IN THE

NEGATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 11, CALENDAR NO. 68, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05074, CALENDAR NO.

68, EPSTEIN, STECK, SEAWRIGHT. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL

PROCEDURE LAW AND THE PENAL LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING WRITTEN

NOTICE TO A DEFENDANT OF HIS OR HER RIGHT TO COMPLETE COURT-ORDERED

ALCOHOL OR SUBSTANCE USE TREATMENT IN A NONRELIGIOUS TREATMENT

PROGRAM.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MR. EPSTEIN.

MR. EPSTEIN: THE BILL ALLOWS NEW YORKERS WHO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

ARE FORCED TO GO INTO MANDATED TREATMENT PROGRAMS TO BE GIVEN AN

OPTION TO HAVE NON-RELIGIOUS TREATMENT PROGRAMS WHEN THEY NEED NO

RELIGIOUS OPTIONS. ACROSS THE STATE IN EVERY COUNTY WE HAVE

NON-RELIGIOUS OPTIONS, BUT MOST PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW THOSE OPTIONS

EXIST. THIS BILL WOULD JUST REQUIRE THE COURT TO GIVE PEOPLE NOTICE THAT

THOSE OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE, AND TO ENSURE THAT THEY GET TO THE TREATMENT

PROGRAM THEY NEED. JUST TO BE CLEAR, PEOPLE WHO NEED NON-RELIGIOUS

TREATMENT PROGRAMS ARE EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL WHEN THEY GET THOSE

OPTIONS. WE'VE SEEN DATA AFTER DATA AFTER DATA (INAUDIBLE) OF PEOPLE

WHO DON'T GET THOSE OPTIONS THAT THEY NEED, FAIL TO GO TO THOSE

TREATMENT PROGRAMS. AND THE GOAL FOR ALL OF US WITH THIS

COURT-MANDATED TREATMENT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE GET THE TREATMENT THAT THEY

NEED SO THEY CAN GET THE HELP THAT THEY DESERVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MORINELLO.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN, WILL YOU

YIELD, SIR?

MR. EPSTEIN: HAPPY TO YIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN YIELDS.

MR. MORINELLO: WHAT -- WHAT IS YOUR

UNDERSTANDING OF THE PURPOSE OF THE JUDICIAL DIVERSION PROGRAM?

MR. EPSTEIN: SO, DIVERSION PROGRAMS ARE PROGRAMS

THAT OF -- AVOID PEOPLE FROM GOING TO BE INCARCERATED, AND YOU GET

OTHER SERVICES THAT THEY NEED THAT THE COURT HAS IDENTIFIED ARE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

APPROPRIATE FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

MR. MORINELLO: WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF

THE PROCEDURE THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED PRIOR TO ACCEPTANCE IN A JUDICIAL

DIVERSION PROGRAM?

MR. EPSTEIN: WHEN YOU SAY THE "PROCEDURE," I'M

NOT 100 PERCENT CLEAR WHAT YOU MEAN BY PROCEDURE.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, WHAT I'M REFERRING TO IS,

WHAT IS THE SPONSOR'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROCESS NECESSARY TO BE

QUALIFIED AND ACCEPTED IN THE PROGRAM?

MR. EPSTEIN: WELL, I'M SURE THE PROCESS IS

DIFFERENT JURISDICTION BY JURISDICTION, BUT GENERALLY I'LL SAY THAT THERE'S A

-- A PROSECUTOR AND A DEFENSE TEAM WHO BOTH ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS

WOULD BE A GOOD COURSE OF ACTION FOR THE DEFENDANT, AND THAT THE COURT,

IN CONSULTATION WITH SOME THIRD-PARTY MOSTLY, WILL MAKE THE

DETERMINATION THAT THIS OPTION IS AVAILABLE TO THIS INDIVIDUAL AND THEN

COLLECTIVELY DECIDE THAT THE TREATMENT PROGRAM IS THE APPROPRIATE

DIVERSION PROGRAM AND THEN THEY, THROUGH A PROCESS, CHOOSE WHAT

PROGRAM THAT WOULD BE AND THE LENGTH OF THAT PROGRAM FOR THE

INDIVIDUAL.

MR. MORINELLO: IS -- IS THE SPONSOR AWARE THAT,

NUMBER ONE, AN INDIVIDUAL HAS TO BE CONVICT -- ACCUSED OF CERTAIN

CRIMES? THAT NOT EVERY SINGLE CRIME MAKES THEM ELIGIBLE FOR JUDICIAL

DIVERSION?

MR. EPSTEIN: I AM AWARE THAT NOT EVERY CRIMINAL

DEFENDANT IS ELIGIBLE FOR A DIVERSION PROGRAM, YES.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MR. MORINELLO: AND IS THE SPONSOR AWARE THAT

ONE OF THE UNDERLYING REASONS THAT YOU BECOME ELIGIBLE IS YOUR CRIME

IS ASSOCIATED WITH EITHER ALCOHOL ABUSE OR DRUG ABUSE?

MR. EPSTEIN: MY UNDERSTANDING FOR A DIVERSION

PROGRAM RELATED TO A TREATMENT PROGRAM IS THERE'S SOME EITHER

UNDERLYING DRUG OR ALCOHOL ISSUE OR THE CRIME IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO DRUG

OR -- DRUG OR ALCOHOL.

MR. MORINELLO: AND IS THE SPONSOR AWARE THAT

PROCEDURALLY, THE PROCESS WOULD BE AS FOLLOWS: NUMBER ONE, A

DEFENDANT MUST BE REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL, WHETHER IT'S PRIVATE OR

ASSIGNED?

MR. EPSTEIN: MY UNDERSTANDING IS IN THE STATE OF

NEW YORK AND CURRENTLY UNDER THE CONSTITUTION, PEOPLE WHO ARE FACING

JAIL TIME ARE REQUIRED TO GET REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL.

MR. MORINELLO: IS THE SPONSOR AWARE THAT THE

DEFENDANT, AFTER CONSULTATION WITH THEIR ATTORNEY, MUST REQUEST THE

PROCESS -- OR THE PROGRAM THROUGH -- THROUGH THEIR ATTORNEY TO THE

COURT?

MR. EPSTEIN: I THINK I SAID EARLIER THAT THE -- IT IS

THE DEFENDANT WHO -- WHO REQUESTS IT AND THE PROSECUTOR WHO'S ON

BOARD WITH IT AND THEN THEY COLLECTIVELY WOULD GO TO THE JUDGE ABOUT

THE DIVERSION PROGRAM.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. IS THE SPONSOR AWARE THAT

OFFICE -- OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION HAS A SET PROCEDURE THAT MUST

BE FOLLOWED IN ORDER TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR THE PROGRAM?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MR. EPSTEIN: WHEN YOU SAY "SET PROCEDURE" THEY

HAVE QUALIFICATIONS AND -- AND CHARACTERISTICS OF INDIVIDUALS WHO

WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR IT?

MR. MORINELLO: NO, WHAT I'M REFERRING TO IS,

NUMBER ONE, ONCE IT'S REQUESTED THERE HAS TO BE AN INDEPENDENT

EVALUATION OF WHETHER OR NOT, A, THE DEFENDANT WHO IS REQUESTING HAS

ONE OF THE TRIGGERING FACTORS, EITHER ALCOHOL OR DRUG, AND THEN NUMBER

TWO, WHETHER THAT WAS THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF THE ALLEGATION AGAINST

THEM.

MR. EPSTEIN: SO AS I SAID EARLIER, THEY'RE THE

THIRD-PARTY WHO MAKES THAT DETERMINATION, SO YOU'RE REITERATING I THINK

WHAT I JUST SAID EARLIER.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, I'M JUST WONDERING

WHETHER THE SPONSOR IS AWARE OF IT, IT'S AN INDEPENDENT EVALUATOR THAT IS

APPROVED BY OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION.

MR. EPSTEIN: WELL, SINCE I SAID IT A FEW MINUTES

AGO BEFORE YOU ASKED, AGAIN, I -- I MADE THAT STATEMENT. SO I THINK YOU

CAN ASCERTAIN THAT I WAS AWARE OF IT BECAUSE I JUST SAID IT.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE YOUR

ANSWER WASN'T THAT CLEAR. IT'S A THIRD-PARTY, BUT NOT AN EVALUATOR

APPROVED BY OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION AND THAT'S ONE OF THE KEY

FACTORS AND THAT REPORT HAS TO BE GIVEN. THAT'S WHAT I WAS ALLUDING TO

AND NOT JUST SOME GENERAL THIRD-PARTY.

MR. EPSTEIN: I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S A QUESTION

THERE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MR. MORINELLO: NEXT, ONCE THEY'RE EVALUATED

AND THEY'RE APPROVED AND ACCEPTED, AT THAT POINT IS THE SPONSOR AWARE

THAT THE DEFENDANT THEN BECOMES UNDER THE JURISDICTION AND DIRECTION OF

THE COURT ITSELF, THE JUDGE WHO HANDLES THAT CASE?

MR. EPSTEIN: SO, I -- JUST SO I'M CLEAR ON YOUR

QUESTION, YOU'RE SAYING ONCE THE PARTIES AGREE TO GO TO THIS DIVERSION

PROGRAM THE COURT HAS OVERSIGHT OVER THAT DIVERSION PROGRAM AND HOW

WELL THE DEFENDANT IS DOING IN THAT PROGRAM?

MR. MORINELLO: THE COURT HAS OVERSIGHT OVER THE

DEFENDANT. THE QUESTION -- THE QUESTION, BOTTOM LINE, IS THIS: I GET THE

FEELING THAT THE SPONSOR DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE PROCEDURES. I DID

THEM FOR 14 YEARS, I HANDLED OVER 600 CASES, AND SOME OF THE ANSWERS

DO NOT -- DO NOT CORRESPOND TO THE ACTUAL PROCEDURES. IS THE -- IS THE

SPONSOR AWARE THAT THERE'S A CONTRACT THAT HAS TO BE SIGNED BY THE

DEFENDANT AND ACCEPTED TO THE COURT WITH ALL THE QUALIFICATIONS,

RESTRICTIONS AND OBLIGATIONS?

MR. EPSTEIN: IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE

DEFENDANT AGREES ORALLY AND IN WRITING TO THE TERMS OF THIS DIVERSION

PROGRAM.

MR. MORINELLO: BUT IS THE -- IS THE SPONSOR

AWARE THAT THERE'S AN ACTUAL BINDING CONTRACT LISTING ALL THE OBLIGATIONS

AND ALL THE PENALTIES?

MR. EPSTEIN: LIKE ANY PLEA AGREEMENT OR

DIVERSION AGREEMENT IN COURT IT IS BINDING UPON THE DEFENDANT BECAUSE

THEY'RE AGREEING TO IT IN AN OPEN COURT.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN

WHAT YOU'VE SAID. IT'S SPECIFIC TO THESE PARTICULAR CRIMES. AND

INCLUDED IN THAT, IS THE SPONSOR AWARE THAT THE ADMONISHMENT FOR A

SENTENCE SHOULD THERE BE FAILURE IS INCLUDED IN THAT AGREEMENT?

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT IF THE PERSON

DOESN'T LIVE UP TO THE STANDARDS OF THE AGREEMENT THERE ARE

CONSEQUENCES IN THAT PROCEDURE LIKE THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES FOR OTHER

CRIMINAL DEFENDANTS IN OTHER PLEA AGREEMENTS THEY ENTER INTO BECAUSE

THEY'RE MAKING A DETERMINATION THAT THIS IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST, AND

THE COURT'S SAYING, THESE ARE THE TERMS YOU NEED TO COMPLY WITH AND IF

YOU DON'T THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES. OF COURSE, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT

HAPPENS.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, IT'S A LITTLE MORE STRINGENT

THAN THAT BECAUSE THERE'S AN ACTUAL WRITTEN BINDING CONTRACT. SO PRIOR

TO GETTING TO ANYTHING, THAT PROCEDURE MAY TAKE THREE OR FOUR COURT

APPEARANCES. IS THE SPONSOR AWARE OF THAT?

MR. EPSTEIN: I'M NOT AWARE OF HOW MANY COURT

APPEARANCES THIS PARTICULAR, WHATEVER FICTIONAL DEFENDANT WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT TAKES, BUT USUALLY PEOPLE TAKE MULTIPLE TIMES TO GO BACK TO COURT

TO BE ABLE TO GET TO A PLEA AGREEMENT. SOME PLEA AGREEMENTS AND SOME

DIVERSION PROGRAMS ARE MUCH QUICKER, BUT OBVIOUSLY WHEN THERE'S

COURT PROCESS IT REQUIRES SOME TIME FOR PEOPLE TO KEEP COMING BACK TO

COURT.

MR. MORINELLO: NOW, ONCE A DEFENDANT IS

ACCEPTED INTO THE PROGRAM, IS THE SPONSOR AWARE THAT THEY ARE -- THEY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

ARE CONTRACTUALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE OF EITHER THE BENEFITS OR THE NEGATIVES

ENTERING INTO THAT PROGRAM?

MR. EPSTEIN: SO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ANYONE KNOWS

OR DOESN'T KNOW WHEN THEY ENTER INTO A PLEA AGREEMENT, BUT I BELIEVE

THEY'VE BEEN REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL AND THE COUNSEL IS MAKING THEM

AWARE OF WHAT THEIR OBLIGATIONS ARE UNDER THAT -- UNDER THOSE

AGREEMENTS AND THAT ORDER. IT IS MY HOPE AND MY EXPECTATION THAT THE

CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY IS MAKING SURE THE INDIVIDUAL CONSCIOUSLY

KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE BEING OBLIGATED TO DO IN THAT -- IN THAT AGREEMENT

AND WHAT THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES ARE TO THE COURT.

MR. MORINELLO: ARE YOU AWARE OF THE BENEFITS

THAT ARE CONTRACTUALLY PLACED IN THAT CONTRACT SHOULD THEY COMPLY WITH

ALL THE RULES AND COMPLETE THE PROGRAM THAT THEY -- FITS WHATEVER THEIR

AILMENT OR ADDICTION IS?

MR. EPSTEIN: I'M SURE EACH CASE IS CASE-BY-CASE,

BUT HOPEFULLY PEOPLE GET AN ACD OR OTHER OPPORTUNITY THAT THE

UNDERLYING ALLEGED CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR IS NO LONGER GOING TO BE PART OF

THEIR PERMANENT RECORD, AND HOPEFULLY THAT DIVERSION PROGRAM WILL LEAD

SOMEONE TO BE ABLE TO GET OVER WHATEVER ADDICTION ISSUES THEY HAVE IN

THEIR LIVES.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU.

ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MORINELLO: I WAS A JUDGE FOR 14 YEARS. I

HANDLED OVER 600 JUDICIAL DIVERSION CASES. THERE ARE VERY STRINGENT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

RULES TO LEAD UP TO A CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT. THE FIRST ASSESSMENT WILL

DETERMINE IF, IN FACT, THE CRIME WAS A RESULT OF AN ADDICTION BY EITHER

DRUG OR ALCOHOL. I RECALL THE FIRST BILL THAT I SUPPORTED - I BELIEVE IT WAS

THE FIRST - IN THIS CHAMBER WAS IN ADDITION TO A CRIME THAT ONE OF OUR

LEADERSHIP ON THE MAJORITY HAD PROPOSED ADDING CAR STRIPPING TO THE

LIST OF CRIMES FOR JUDICIAL DIVERSION ELIGIBILITY. A DEFENDANT WILL BE

FACING A FELONY AND A STATE JAIL TIME SHOULD THEY BE CONVICTED, BUT THIS

PROGRAM WILL AVOID THAT FOR THEM SHOULD THEY BE SUCCESSFUL. BUT ONE

OF THE KEYS, AND IT'S SIMILAR TO A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, THAT THE POWER AND

CONTROL IS TAKEN FROM THE INDIVIDUAL DEFENDANT AND GIVEN TO A SUPERIOR

FIGURE, IN THIS CASE BEING THE JUDGE. SO TO NOW ALLOW THE BENEFICIARY OF

THAT AGREEMENT, THE BENEFICIARY OF THEIR BEING ABLE TO AVOID A CRIMINAL

CONVICTION, THE BENEFICIARY OF BEING AVAILABLE TO AVOID INCARCERATION,

THIS PUTS SOME POWER INTO IT. THERE ARE NO, THAT I KNOW OF, THAT OFFICE

OF COURT ADMINISTRATION HAS EVER, EVER ALLOWED THAT IS A RELIGIOUS

PROGRAM. THE MAJORITY OF THESE PROGRAMS ARE THROUGH GRANTS PROVIDED

BY MONIES FROM THIS LEGISLATURE. SO TO NOW -- TO TAKE THE POWER AWAY

FROM THE COURT TO THE BENEFICIARY WHO IN MOST INSTANCES COULD BE

FACING SIGNIFICANT JAIL TIME IN A STATE FACILITY SHOULD THEY BE CONVICTED,

NOW TAKES AWAY FROM THE IMPACT AND IMPORTANCE OF CONTROL OVER THAT

INDIVIDUAL. MANY OF THEM GO IN NOT BECAUSE THEY FEEL IT'S TIME FOR

THEM TO BE ABLE TO ATTACK THEIR ADDICTION, IT'S BECAUSE THEY WANT TO

AVOID THE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES OF THE CONVICTION OR INCARCERATION.

FOR THOSE REASONS, I ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER

VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PARTICULAR BILL. THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MR. EPSTEIN: HAPPY TO YIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO, I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT A

LITTLE BIT OF THE LANGUAGE IN THE BILL. SO YOU SAY NON-RELIGIOUS. WHAT

ABOUT A SPIRITUALLY-BASED PROGRAM, RIGHT? A LOT -- A LOT OF AA AND SA,

THEY'RE MORE OF A SPIRITUAL BASIS THAN A RELIGIOUS ONE. WOULD YOU SAY

THAT THAT WOULD BE DEFINED AS RELIGIOUS IF THERE WERE SPIRITUAL ASPECTS TO

THE PROGRAM?

MR. EPSTEIN: WELL, IT'S NOT MY TERM -- I DON'T HAVE

TO DEFINE IT. IT'S LIKE THE DEFENDANT IN THAT CASE BE TOLD THAT THEY HAVE

NON-RELIGIOUS OPTIONS. SOME PEOPLE FEEL LIKE SPIRITUALNESS IS

FAITH-BASED AND IT DOESN'T WORK FOR THEM, SO THEY WOULD THEN BE GIVEN

AN NON LIKE, AA OPTION FOR A TREATMENT PROGRAM. IT WOULD REALLY BE UP

TO THAT DEFENDANT.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN

THE INSTANCE WHERE WE LIVE IN A RURAL COMMUNITY, A LOT OF THE BASIS OF

SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS IS WITH SPIRITUAL-BASED PROGRAMMING, WHICH IS

THE VAST MAJORITY OF A LOT OF THESE, YOU KNOW, SUBSTANCE ABUSE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

PROGRAMS. WHAT WOULD BE THE ALTERNATIVE TO THAT?

MR. EPSTEIN: SO LIKE I SAID EARLIER, THERE ARE

PROGRAMS IN EVERY COUNTY IN THE STATE THAT ARE NON-RELIGIOUS-BASED

RIGHT NOW. THEY ARE AVAILABLE FOR DEFENDANTS TODAY, THEY JUST DON'T

KNOW ABOUT IT. AND SO ALLOWING THEM TO BE AWARE OF IT ALLOWS THEM TO

MAKE A CHOICE. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO GO THROUGH

RECOVERY, AND WE WANT TO HELP THEM BECAUSE WE ALL WANT THEM TO

RECOVER. AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RECOVERY PROGRAM IS

BEST FOR THEM, ESPECIALLY FOR NON-RELIGIOUS PEOPLE WHO NEED

NON-RELIGIOUS TREATMENT. SO I'M NOT SAYING ANYONE SHOULD CHOOSE

SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE FORCED TO CHOOSE, I'M JUST SAYING LET'S LET

PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OPTIONS AND KNOW ABOUT IT AND NOT BE TOLD THAT THEY

HAVE TO DO A FAITH-BASED ONE OF THEY'RE NOT FAITH-BASED. BUT IF

SOMEONE'S FAITH-BASED AND THEY WANT TO DO A FAITH-BASED ONE, GREAT.

WE WANT THEM TO GET THE TREATMENT THAT THEY DESERVE.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE.

MR. LAVINE: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN, WILL YOU

YIELD, SIR?

MR. EPSTEIN: I'M HAPPY TO YIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. LAVINE: MR. EPSTEIN, SO, I -- I'VE READ THE --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

READ THE BILL. IT'S -- IT'S A PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD PROPOSITION. DOES THIS

BILL IN ANY WAY MANDATE THAT SOMEONE WHO MAY BE IN NEED OF

TREATMENT CANNOT RECEIVE THAT TREATMENT?

MR. EPSTEIN: IT DOES NOT, MR. LAVINE.

MR. LAVINE: ALL RIGHT. AND IS THIS BILL ENTIRELY

CONSISTENT WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES

CONSTITUTION, WHICH I THINK WAS NUMBER ONE IN OUR BILL OF RIGHTS IF --

IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

MR. EPSTEIN: IT -- IT IS EXTREMELY CONSISTENT WITH

THE LAW, AND NUMEROUS PEOPLE HAVE HAD TO SUE OVER GETTING

NON-RELIGIOUS OPTIONS BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T OFFERED THAT. AND COURT

AFTER COURT AFTER COURT HAS UPHELD THE RIGHT TO HAVE NON-RELIGIOUS

TREATMENT PROGRAMS.

MR. LAVINE: NOW, WHAT DO YOU IMAGINE MAY

HAPPEN IF SOMEONE WHO -- WHO IS OF A DIFFERENT RELIGION OR SOMEONE

WHO HAS NO RELIGION ENDS UP BEING PUT IN A TREATMENT PROGRAM THAT HAS

A HEAVY EMPHASIS ON ONE PARTICULAR RELIGIOUS ORDER?

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH. SO MY HOPE IS THAT PERSON

WILL STILL MOVE TO RECOVERY, BUT THE DATA UNFORTUNATELY SHOWS THAT

PEOPLE WHO ARE NON-RELIGIOUS AND PUT INTO HEAVY RELIGIOUS TREATMENT

PROGRAMS ARE LESS LIKELY TO GET THROUGH RECOVERY.

MR. LAVINE: AND SO DO YOU THINK THERE -- THERE IS

A DANGER TO THE SPIRIT OF AMERICA POSED BY ANY ONE -- THE FOLLOWERS OF

ANY ONE RELIGION WHO WANT TO IMPOSE THE STRICT MANDATES OF THAT

RELIGION ON EVERYBODY ELSE?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU KNOW, I FIRMLY BELIEVE IN

RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN THIS COUNTRY, AND I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE

ABLE TO MAKE WHATEVER CHOICES THEY WANT TO MAKE IN THEIR LIVES AND I

DO THINK PUSHING PEOPLE DOWN A CERTAIN PIPELINE REALLY IMPACTS THAT

ABILITY TO KEEP THEIR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM INTACT.

MR. LAVINE: VERY, VERY GOOD. THANK YOU, MR.

EPSTEIN.

MR. EPSTEIN: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED BY

MY COLLEAGUE, BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO VOTE

IN FAVOR ON THE FLOOR.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. THERE MAY BE SOME EXCEPTIONS. IF YOU'RE IN

THE CHAMBERS YOU'LL NEED TO TAKE THAT OPTION.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. EPSTEIN: THANK -- THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I

RISE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SO, WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT BELIEVES IN

INDEPENDENCE AND RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. AND HERE ALL WE'RE SAYING IS FOR

SOMEONE WHO'S GOING TO A COURT-MANDATED TREATMENT PROGRAM, THEY

SHOULD BE GIVEN THE OPTION TO DO A TREATMENT PROGRAM THAT WORKS BEST

BASED ON THEIR FAITH OR LACK OF FAITH. AND WHERE SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE

IN 12 STEPS, SOME PEOPLE DON'T. SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE IN HIGHER

POWERS, SOME PEOPLE DON'T. AND WE WANT PEOPLE TO GET THROUGH

RECOVERY, AND THIS IS ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE FIND THE BEST WAY FOR THEM

TO GO THROUGH RECOVERY, AND UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, THE DATA DOESN'T

SUPPORT PEOPLE -- UNFORTUNATELY, PEOPLE WHO ARE NON-RELIGIOUS AND

GOING TO RELIGIOUS-BASED PROGRAMS DON'T DO THAT WELL. THE DATA ALSO

SAYS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE RELIGIOUS AND DON'T -- AND GO TO NON-RELIGIOUS

PROGRAMS DON'T DO AS WELL. WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO GO TO THE BEST

PROGRAM THEY HAVE, AND IT JUST ALLOWS OCA TO NOTIFY PEOPLE THAT THEY

HAVE THIS AVAILABLE. IT'S A RIGHT THAT EXISTS UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION THAT'S

BEEN HELD UP COURT CASE AFTER COURT CASE AFTER COURT CASE AND WE WANT

TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT RIGHT.

SO I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS

BILL. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. EACHUS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. EACHUS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AS CHAIR

OF THE LOCAL SALVATION ARMY FOR TWO YEARS, WE WERE PART OF A DIVERSION

PROGRAM AND WE HAD MANY FOLKS COME THROUGH THE SALVATION ARMY

DOING VARIOUS DIFFERENT TASKS. I HAD SOME OF THOSE FOLKS, I WAS IN

CHARGE AND OBVIOUSLY TOOK SOLE RESPONSIBILITY AS CHAIR OF THE SALVATION

ARMY. WE HAD SOME OF THOSE FOLKS WHO CAME THROUGH WHO DID COME

FROM OTHER PROGRAMS WHICH DID FORCE RELIGIOUS CONCEPTS ON THEM. AND

THEY ACTUALLY JUST -- THEY COULDN'T HANDLE IT. AND AS MR. EPSTEIN -- I'M

SORRY, THE SPONSOR MENTIONED, THIS IS SIMPLY A CHOICE GIVEN TO THEM SO

THAT THEY WILL BE SUCCESSFUL. AND THAT'S, OF COURSE, ULTIMATELY WHAT

WE'RE LOOKING FOR; FOR ALL OF THESE THAT GO THROUGH DIVERSION PROGRAMS

TO BE SUCCESSFUL. AND I HAD PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ON THE OTHER END, NOT

AS A JUDGE OR A DEFENDANT OR ANYTHING ELSE, BUT AS ONE WHO HELPED

SPONSOR A DIVERSION PROGRAM.

SO CERTAINLY, I THINK THIS IS A GREAT, GREAT BILL AND I AM

VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EACHUS IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 23, 2023

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD

LIKE TO REMIND OUR MAJORITY CONFERENCE THAT THERE MAY BE A NEED FOR A

CONFERENCE, BUT IT WILL BE CALLED AT THE SPEAKER AND PEOPLE SHOULD FEEL

FREE TO GO HOME.

SO SIR, ARE THERE ANY RESOLUTIONS AND/OR HOUSEKEEPING?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES,

WE HAVE NEITHER RESOLUTIONS NOR HOUSEKEEPING. BUT MAY I TAKE A

MOMENT TO JUST APOLOGIZE. I KNOW YOU WANTED TO SPEAK ON AN EARLIER

RESOLUTION AND I THINK I CUT YOU OFF. SO YOU MIGHT WANT TO SHARE WITH

US YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT AS WE CONCLUDE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: I MOVE TO -- THAT THE

ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL MARCH THE 24TH, TOMORROW BEING A

LEGISLATIVE DAY.

(APPLAUSE/LAUGHTER)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ALWAYS TO THE POINT.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: AND TO MEET AT 2:00

P.M. ON MONDAY MARCH THE 27TH, MONDAY BEING A SESSION DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

ADJOURNED.

(WHEREUPON, AT 11:56 A.M., THE HOUSE STOOD

ADJOURNED UNTIL MONDAY, MARCH 27TH AT 2:00 P.M., THAT BEING A SESSION

DAY.)