WEDNESDAY, APRIL 3, 2024 1:15 P.M.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME
TO ORDER.
IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF
SILENCE.
(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)
VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE
OF ALLEGIANCE.
(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND
MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)
A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE
JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, APRIL THE 2ND.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, APRIL THE
2ND AND THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO
ORDERED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR.
COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS, I'D LIKE TO SHARE A
QUOTE WITH YOU TODAY FROM ROMA DOWNEY. SHE'S AN IRISH EMINY --
EMINY -- AN IRISH-NOMINATED ACTRESS -- EMMY-NOMINATED ACTRESS AND
PRODUCER AND AUTHOR OF INSPIRATIONAL CONTENT FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS. HER
INSPIRATIONAL WORDS FOR US TODAY, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR LOSSES DOESN'T
MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY; IT DOESN'T MEAN THE LOSS DIDN'T HAPPEN. BUT IT
DOES MEAN THAT EVEN IN THE DARKEST MOMENTS THERE CAN BE LIGHT AGAIN.
AGAIN, THESE WORDS FROM ROMA DOWNEY.
MR. SPEAKER, OUR COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESKS A
MAIN CALENDAR AND A DEBATE LIST. AFTER YOU HAVE DONE ANY
INTRODUCTIONS OR HOUSEKEEPING WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP CALENDAR
RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3. THEN WE WILL TAKE UP THE FOLLOWING BILLS ON
DEBATE. WE'RE GOING TO START WITH CALENDAR NO. 201 BY MS. SOLAGES,
FOLLOWED BY CALENDAR NO. 94 BY MR. EPSTEIN, CALENDAR NO. 110 BY
MS. PAULIN, CALENDAR NO. 166 BY MS. GLICK, CALENDAR NO. 306 BY MR.
VANEL, AND CALENDAR NO. 2 -- 324 BY MS. GLICK. AGAIN, MR. SPEAKER,
THERE MAY BE A NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FLOOR ACTIVITY OR CONFERENCE NEEDS
AS WE PROCEED, BUT RIGHT NOW THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE
GOING, SIR. IF YOU HAVE INTRODUCTIONS OR HOUSEKEEPING, NOW WOULD BE A
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
GREAT TIME.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. WE DO
HAVE SOME HOUSEKEEPING.
ON A MOTION BY MR. CARROLL, PAGE 12, CALENDAR NO.
93, BILL NO. 3499-A, THE AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.
ON A MOTION BY MR. GIBBS, PAGE 28, CALENDAR NO.
363, BILL NO. A.860-A, THE BILL IS AMENDED AS OF A.860.
FOR THE PURPOSES OF A INTRODUCTION, MR. DURSO.
MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND
WELCOME EVERYBODY TO TODAY'S PROCEEDINGS. TODAY I'M JOINED BY MY
NIECE, RORY. RORY, CAN STAND UP. RORY IS HERE TODAY VISITING OUR
CHAMBER FOR THE FIRST TIME. I EVEN KNOW HER -- BOTH HER PARENTS WERE
STAFFERS ONE TIME HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY AND SENATE. RORY IS MY NIECE
AND ALSO THE NIECE OF OUR MEMBER TAYLOR DARLING. WE'LL EXPLAIN THAT
AT ANOTHER TIME.
(LAUGHTER)
BUT RORY HAS BEEN WELCOMED TO OUR CHAMBER TODAY
AND SHE'S BEEN WALKING AROUND, MEETING SOME OF THE MEMBERS AND
SHE'S VERY EXCITED. RORY WANTS TO BE A SCHOOLTEACHER IN THE FUTURE AND
ALSO RUN FOR PRESIDENT.
SO MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU COULD WELCOME OUR NIECE RORY
TO THE CHAMBERS TODAY AND GIVE HER ALL THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR, I
WOULD APPRECIATE IT, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
OF MR. DURSO AND MS. DARLING, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE
WELCOME YOU, RORY, HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO
YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. AS -- AS A FAMILY MEMBER YOU ALWAYS
HAVE PRIVILEGES HERE. WE HOPE TO SEE YOU A LOT OVER YOUR TIME, AND
HOPEFULLY ONE DAY MAYBE HERE IN A MORE PROFESSIONAL CAPACITY. THANK
YOU FOR JOINING US. IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE HAVING YOU. THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
WE'LL GO TO RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3, ASSEMBLY 1065,
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1065, MR.
PALMESANO.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 2024 AS ORGAN AND TISSUE DONATION
AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE
OBSERVANCE OF NATIONAL DONATE LIFE MONTH.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PALMESANO ON
THE RESOLUTION.
MR. PALMESANO: YES, MR. SPEAKER AND MY
COLLEAGUES. I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THIS IMPORTANT
RESOLUTION. AS WE KNOW, EVERY YEAR IN APRIL WE PASS THIS RESOLUTION IN
CONJUNCTION WITH NATIONAL DONATE -- DONATE LIFE MONTH. IT'S BEEN A
PRIVILEGE FOR ME TO HELP LEAD THIS RESOLUTION WITH OUR MAJORITY LEADER
OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS, I APPRECIATE THAT VERY -- VERY MUCH. BUT
FROM 1992 TO 2012, OUR FORMER COLLEAGUE AND FRIEND JIM CONTE
INTRODUCED AND LED THIS RESOLUTION ON THE FLOOR. THOSE OF YOU THAT DID
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
NOT KNOW JIM, HE WAS A TWO-TIME KIDNEY TRANSPLANT RECIPIENT, A GREAT
HUMAN BEING, AND A STAUNCH AND TIRELESS ADVOCATE FOR THE ISSUE TO
PROMOTE ORGAN DONATION AWARENESS. JIM SAT RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME HERE
WHERE MR. GOODELL SITS. HE WAS OUR FLOOR LEADER, BUT HE WAS ALSO THE
HEART AND SOUL OF OUR CONFERENCE. UNFORTUNATELY IN 2012 WE LOST JIM.
AND ALTHOUGH HIS PASSING LEFT A HOLE IN THE HEART OF THIS CHAMBER, HIS
MEMORY AND MISSION TO PROMOTE ORGAN DONATION AWARENESS LIVES ON.
AND IT'S INCUMBENT UPON US, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US, TO CARRY ON THIS
IMPORTANT MISSION AND MESSAGE, BECAUSE IT IS LITERALLY ABOUT SAVING
LIVES.
NOW, WHEN JIM SPOKE ABOUT THIS ISSUE, HE SPOKE
ABOUT IT WITH EMOTION, HE SPOKE ABOUT IT WITH PASSION, AND HE SPOKE
ABOUT THE FACTS. SO LET ME SHARE SOME OF THE FACTS WITH ALL OF US HERE IN
THE CHAMBER TODAY TO GIVE US SOME PERSPECTIVE. NATIONALLY, RIGHT NOW
WE HAVE 103,000 PEOPLE WAITING FOR AN ORGAN TRANSPLANT. BUT RIGHT
HERE IN NEW YORK STATE, WE HAVE NEARLY 8,000 NEW YORKERS WAITING
FOR AN ORGAN TRANSPLANT. NEARLY 1,100 HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR MORE THAN
FIVE YEARS. WE HAVE 52 REGISTRIES ACROSS OUR COUNTRY AND TERRITORIES;
NEW YORK IS NUMBER 50 OUT OF 52. WE ARE AHEAD OF PUERTO RICO AND
NEW JERSEY. THE NATIONAL DONATION REGISTRY IS -- THE RATE IS 40 -- OR
64 PERCENT, BUT NEW YORK IS 50 AT 47 PERCENT. IN NEW YORK WE HAVE
THE THIRD-HIGHEST NEED FOR ORGAN DONORS, BUT THE THIRD-WORST ORGAN
DONOR ENROLLMENT RATE. LAST YEAR, UNFORTUNATELY WE LOST 400 NEW
YORKERS WAITING FOR A LIFESAVING ORGAN TRANSPLANT.
MR. SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
WE CAN AND WE MUST DO BETTER. BUT WHEN YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT STATS
AND -- AND FACTS, THIS IS PROBABLY THE SINGLE-MOST IMPORTANT STAT THAT
YOU SHOULD KNOW: A SINGLE PERSON WHO DONATES AT THE TIME OF THEIR
DEATH CAN SAVE UP TO EIGHT LIVES AND IMPROVE THE LIVES OF 75 OTHERS
THROUGH EYE AND TISSUE DONATION. AGAIN, ONE MORE TIME, A SINGLE
PERSON WHO DONATES AT THE TIME OF THEIR DEATH CAN SAVE UP TO EIGHT
LIVES AND IMPACT THE LIVES OF 75 OTHERS.
YOU KNOW, I KNOW THIS ISSUE HAS TOUCHED MANY
MEMBERS OF OUR ASSEMBLY FAMILY OVER THE YEARS AND THEIR FAMILIES.
SOME ARE STILL SERVING IN THE CHAMBER, SOME ARE NOT. IF YOU ARE, I
DEFINITELY WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO SHARE YOUR STORY IF YOU'RE ABLE TO DO
SO AND WANT TO, BECAUSE THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT IT, THE MORE WE SHARE
OUR STORIES, THE MORE WE CONNECT, THE MORE WE EDUCATE AND THE MORE
WE WILL CONTINUE TO CHANGE THESE NUMBERS FOR THE POSITIVE. BUT I
WOULD LIKE TO JUST SPEAK ABOUT SOME OF THE MEMBERS WHO ARE NO LONGER
SERVING IN THIS CHAMBER THAT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW ABOUT.
A LITTLE OVER 32 YEARS AGO ON THIS VERY ASSEMBLY FLOOR
ON MARCH 25, 1992, FORMER ASSEMBLYMAN BILL HOYT SUFFERED A HEART
ATTACK AND DIED. AND WE DIDN'T KNOW -- I GUESS MY UNDERSTANDING TO
THAT VERY DAY, HE WAS AWAITING A HEART TRANSPLANT. HIS SON SAM WHO
SUCCEEDED HIM TOOK THAT ISSUE AND CONTINUED TO PROMOTE ORGAN
DONATION AND TISSUE AWARENESS FOR -- FOR YEARS. OUR FORMER COLLEAGUE
ASSEMBLYMAN RICHARD BRODSKY, HIS DAUGHTER WILLIE RECEIVED A KIDNEY
FROM HIS WIFE AND HE BECAME A STAUNCH ADVOCATE FOR THE ISSUE OF ORGAN
DONATION. UNFORTUNATELY, OUR COLLEAGUE MR. BRODSKY PASSED AWAY IN
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
2020. OUR FORMER COLLEAGUE FELIX ORTIZ, THE SPONSOR OF LAUREN'S LAW,
BECAME INVOLVED WHEN HIS MOTHER WAS IN NEED OF A KIDNEY TRANSPLANT,
AND MR. ORTIZ ALSO LED THIS RESOLUTION ON THE FLOOR AS WELL. SO A LOT OF
HISTORY. FOR ME PERSONALLY, MR. SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, WHEN I
TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE IT'S PERSONAL. I TALK ABOUT MY SISTER TERESA. MY
SISTER TERESA WAS A JUVENILE DIABETIC DIAGNOSED AT THE AGE OF 13. THIS
DISEASE RAVAGED HER BODY OVER HER LIFETIME AND NEEDED A NEW --NEW
ORGANS. SO SHE HAD AN ORGAN -- A KIDNEY -- A PANCREAS TRANSPLANT IN
2000 FROM THE KINDNESS OF A STRANGER, AND THEN IN 2006 I HAD THE
PRIVILEGE AND OPPORTUNITY TO DONATE A KIDNEY TO MY SISTER.
UNFORTUNATELY, MY SISTER PASSED AWAY IN 2013. IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF THE
KIDNEY, IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE JUVENILE DIABETES AND HOW IT RAVAGED HER
BODY. BUT MR. SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, I REALIZED MY SISTER TERESA
WAS THE LUCKY ONE. SHE HAD TWO TRANSPLANTS. I DID NOT REALIZE HOW
TERRIBLE THE NUMBERS WERE UNTIL I STEPPED ON THE FLOOR OF THE ASSEMBLY
HERE IN 2011. I HAVE SEEN FIRSTHAND HOW ORGAN DONATION CAN IMPACT
THE FAMILIES' QUALITY OF LIFE AND HOW IT CAN SAVE LIVES. BUT THE GOOD
NEWS, MR. SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, WE HAVE MADE SIGNIFICANT
PROGRESS SINCE 2011. WE HAVE HELPED BRING MORE AWARENESS AND
EDUCATION AND PROGRESS. WHEN I USED TO TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE BACK IN
2011 AND '12, I WAS TALKING ABOUT AN ORGAN DONATION RATE FOR THE STATE
AT 23 PERCENT INSTEAD OF WHERE WE ARE NOW AT 47 PERCENT. INSTEAD OF
TALKING ABOUT NEARLY 8,000 NEW YORKERS, I WAS TALKING ABOUT MORE
THAN 10,000 NEW YORKERS ON THE WAIT LIST. INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT
1,100 PEOPLE WAITING FOR FIVE YEARS, I WAS TALKING ABOUT 1,700 NEW
7
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
YORKERS WAITING FOR FIVE YEARS. AND THEN WE PASSED LAUREN'S LAW,
NAMED AFTER LAUREN SHIELDS, THE HEROIC 12-YEAR-OLD WHO HAD A
LIFESAVING HEART TRANSPLANT AND THEN JUST -- NOT JUST LEND HER NAME, BUT
SHE LENT HER FACE AND POWERFUL VOICE AND BECAME A FIERCE ADVOCATE FOR
ORGAN DONATION, WHICH NOW WHEN YOU GO IN TO GET YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE
THEY ASK YOU THE QUESTION, DO YOU WANT TO BE AN ORGAN DONOR, YOU
HAVE TO EITHER ANSWER YES OR SKIP THE QUESTION. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY
YES, BUT YOU HAVE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. IN 2015 WE ALLOWED 16- AND
17-YEAR-OLDS TO REGISTER (INAUDIBLE) BECOME AN ORGAN DONOR. AND
PERSONALLY, AS A FATHER I'LL NEVER FORGET WHEN MY -- MY DAUGHTER AND
SON CAME HOME WITH THEIR -- THEIR PERMITS, AND ON THAT IT SAID "ORGAN
DONOR." WE DIDN'T REALLY DISCUSS IT, THEY DID IT ON THEIR OWN. AND THEN
SEVERAL YEARS AGO IN 2017, WE MADE A SUBSTANTIAL STEP WHEN WE
ACTIVATED AND CREATED AN ONLINE ORGAN DONOR REGISTRY. YOU JUST ANSWER
A FEW QUESTIONS AND YOU CAN BE REGISTERED TO BE AN ORGAN DONOR.
SO YES, MR. SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, WE HAVE
MADE PROGRESS, BUT WE CAN STILL DO MORE AND MUST DO A BETTER JOB.
AND I UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS ISSUE, WE'RE THINKING
ABOUT ONE'S OWN DEATH SO IT MIGHT BE PAUSED. BUT I WOULD SAY TO YOU,
YOU HEARD THOSE NUMBERS WE TALKED ABOUT. WHAT IF IT WAS YOUR MOM
OR DAD, YOUR BROTHER OR SISTER, YOUR HUSBAND OR WIFE, OR GOD FORBID,
YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER AND THEY WERE IN NEED OF A LIFESAVING ORGAN
TRANSPLANT? MAYBE YOU MIGHT THINK ABOUT THIS ISSUE A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.
YOU KNOW, WE PASS A LOT OF BILLS IN THIS HOUSE, SOME
GOOD, SOME NOT SO BAD, BUT THIS IS AN ISSUE WE SHOULD ALL WRAP OUR
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ARMS AROUND BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY SAVES LIVES. IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A LOT OF
MONEY, IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A LOT OF PASSING OF BILLS. BUT IT DOES REQUIRE A
COMMITMENT ON OUR POINT TO ADVOCATE, EDUCATE AND PROMOTE AWARENESS
AND EDUCATION TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING AN ORGAN
DONOR. YOU MAY SAY, WHAT CAN I DO? IF YOU'RE NOT AN ORGAN DONOR
ALREADY, BECOME AN ORGAN DONOR AND REGISTER. USE YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA,
YOUR FACEBOOK AREAS TO PROMOTE ORGAN DONATION. PUT A LINK ON YOUR
WEBSITE. PARTNER WITH DONATE LIFE AND GET THOSE OPPORTUNITIES. WE
CAN GET THIS QUESTION IN FRONT OF MORE AND MORE PEOPLE. THE MORE WE
PUT THAT QUESTION IN FRONT OF PEOPLE, THEY WILL SAY YES. PEOPLE ARE
GENEROUS AND GOOD IF WE GET THEM. AND WE SHOULD PUT IT ON EVERY
FORM THAT WE HAVE IN NEW YORK STATE. YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE ARE
FILING TAXES WE SHOULD ASK THE QUESTION. ANY INTERACTION THE STATE HAS
WITH NEW YORKERS, WE SHOULD BE ASKING THAT QUESTION BECAUSE THE
MORE WE ASK THE QUESTION, THE MORE PEOPLE WILL SAY YES.
AND IN CONCLUSION, MR. SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, I
APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE. INDIVIDUALLY, NO ONE CAN DO AS MUCH AS JIM
CONTE DID ON THIS ISSUE, BUT COLLECTIVELY, AS A BODY, WE CAN DO MUCH
MORE IF WE WORK TOGETHER. WE CAN CONTINUE TO MOVE THIS ISSUE
FORWARD, CONTINUE TO BRING ATTENTION AND AWARENESS TO EDUCATE THE
PUBLIC ABOUT HOW THIS IS SAVING LIVES. AND THAT'S WHAT JIM WOULD WANT
US TO DO, AND SO I ASK US, LET'S WORK TOGETHER, LET'S HELP IMPROVE THE
QUALITY OF LIFE OF OUR -- OUR FAMILIES AND LET'S SAVE LIVES.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ON THE RESOLUTION.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. I WOULD LIKE TO JOIN MY COLLEAGUE MR. PALESAMO [SIC] AND
THANKING HIM, ACTUALLY, FOR SUBMITTING THIS RESOLUTION ON A YEARLY BASIS.
AND I AM ALWAYS PLEASED AND HONORED TO STAND UP NOT JUST TO SUPPORT
IT, BUT TO SPEAK EVERY ONE OF HIS WORDS. WITHOUT REPEATING WHAT HE
SAID, IT IS SO CRITICAL THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF BEING AN ORGAN
DONOR. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE IN THE CHAMBERS, MR. SPEAKER.
NONE OF US ARE GOING TO GET OUT OF HERE ALIVE, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN
THAT WE NEED TO TAKE ALL OF OUR ORGANS WITH US. AND SO THERE IS AN
OPPORTUNITY THAT WE ALL HAVE CURRENTLY ON OUR DRIVER'S LICENSE, AND
THERE'S PROBABLY SOME OTHER PLACES WHERE YOU CAN ACTUALLY SIGN UP TO
BE AN ORGAN DONOR. MY FAMILY WAS GRATEFUL THAT SOMEONE MADE THAT
DECISION TO SIGN UP TO BE AN ORGAN DONOR, AND AS A RESULT OF IT MY
NOW-DECEASED DAUGHTER WAS ABLE TO LIVE AT LEAST FOUR -- FOUR ADDITIONAL
YEARS OF HER LIFE. BECAUSE HE DONATED HIS ORGAN, SHE WAS ABLE TO GET A
KIDNEY THAT LITERALLY GAVE HER FOUR YEARS OF LIFE. AND SO IT MAY SEEM
LIKE IT'S, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BOX YOU CHECK OFF ON YOUR LICENSE, BUT IT'S A
LOT MORE THAN THAT. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW HOW MANY LIVES THAT YOU CAN
-- THAT YOU CAN MAKE SURE THEY HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF LONGEVITY AND MORE
LIFE IN TERMS OF BEING HEALTHY IF YOU WOULD JUST CHECK THAT BOX ON YOUR
LICENSE.
NOW, I -- I DO WANT TO ANNOUNCE THAT ON APRIL THE
16TH, MR. PALESAMO [SIC] AND I ARE HOSTING A BIG EVENT IN THE WELL
WHERE WE'RE HAVING SOME FOLKS FROM NOT JUST THE NATIONAL DONATE LIFE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ASSOCIATION, BUT THE STATEWIDE AS WELL AS HOPEFULLY DMV THAT WILL BE
IN PLACE. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO COME INTO OUR BUILDING ON A
REGULAR BASIS, INTO THE LOB. ENCOURAGE THEM TO STOP BY THAT LOCATION.
THERE SHOULD BE SOMEBODY THERE WITH AN APPLICATION WHERE YOU CAN AT
THAT POINT MAKE A DECISION TO BE A DONOR. THERE ARE TONS OF ORGANS THAT
ARE IN YOUR BODY THAT MAY NOT TRANSCEND WHEN YOU TRANSCEND, BUT THEY
CAN USED BY SOMEONE ELSE. GIVE THAT SOME THOUGHT AND CONSIDER IT.
THE NUMBERS ARE GOING DOWN, WE ARE LOOKING BETTER IN NEW YORK, BUT
WE'RE -- WE'RE A LOT BETTER THAN WHAT THE NUMBERS LOOK LIKE. WE COULD
DO BETTER, WE SHOULD DO BETTER, AND THERE'S NO REASON NOT TO.
AND SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO TAKE SOME
TIME. YOU HEAR ALL THE STATISTICS THAT MY COLLEAGUE JUST GAVE OUT.
THEY'RE REAL, THEY'RE FACTUAL. ALL THESE COLLEAGUES USED TO WORK ON THE
LEGISLATION THAT HE TALKED ABOUT. I KNEW EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. BUT
THERE'S ALWAYS A TIME WHEN IT'S THE TIME TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND THE
RIGHT THING TO DO IS TO MAKE YOURSELF AN ORGAN DONOR AT SOME POINT IN
YOUR LIFE. YOU COULD DO IT WHILE YOU'RE ALIVE, ACTUALLY. WE ONLY NEED
TWO [SIC] KIDNEYS, REALLY, TO LIVE. SO THERE ARE A TON OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
WALKING AROUND NOW WITH ONE KIDNEY AND THEY'RE LIVING COMPLETELY
SAFE AND HEALTHY LIVES. YOU MAY JUST WANT TO BE A KIDNEY DONOR
WITHOUT NECESSARILY TRANSITIONING. BUT IF YOU CAN'T GET TO THAT, AT
MINIMUM WE SHOULD ALL BE A DONOR ON OUR DRIVER'S LICENSE.
I WILL END WITH THAT AND AGAIN THANK MR. PALESAMO
[SIC] FOR HIS LEADERSHIP ON THIS AND OTHER ISSUES. AND I HOPE TO SEE YOU
ALL SOMEWHERE IN THE WELL ON APRIL 16TH FILLING OUT THAT FORM OR
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BRINGING SOMEONE FROM YOUR OFFICE OR SOMEONE FROM YOUR DISTRICT IN TO
FILL THAT FORM OUT TO BECOME AN ORGAN DONOR. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. SMULLEN ON THE RESOLUTION.
MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. IT'S TRULY
MY HONOR TODAY TO SPEAK ON THIS RESOLUTION. I'M VERY PROUD TO SUPPORT
ORGAN AND TISSUE DONOR AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK
IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE OBSERVANCE OF NATIONAL DONATE LIFE MONTH.
AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY WHEN WE PASSED LEGISLATION ON THIS TOPIC, MY
WIFE MEGAN AND I LOST OUR SON ALEXANDER JOHN SMULLEN, OR AJ AS HIS
FRIENDS AND FAMILY KNEW HIM, THIS PAST MONTH. HE PASSED AWAY AT
ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER ON WEDNESDAY, MARCH 6TH, RIGHT HERE IN
ALBANY, NEW YORK AT THE AGE OF 14 FOLLOWING A FIERCE FIGHT IN THE
PEDIATRIC ICU AFTER BEING HIT BY CAR IN A TRAGIC ACCIDENT ON THURSDAY,
FEBRUARY 22, 2024. I'D LIKE TO THANK ALL OF THE MEMBERS OF THIS BODY
WHO BOTH VISITED US IN THE ICU, WHO ATTENDED HIS FUNERAL, WHO SENT
CARDS, GREETINGS, LOVE AND PRAYERS FOR OUR BELOVED SON. WE LISTENED
EACH AND EVERY DAY, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MY WIFE AND I HAVE
FOUND SOLACE IN SINCE HIS PASSING IS THIS DONATE LIFE PROGRAM. YOU
SEE, AJ GAVE THE ULTIMATE GIFT BY PARTICIPATING IN THIS LIFESAVING
PROGRAM. IT'S TRULY A NON-PROFIT PROGRAM. IT HAS ORGANIZATIONS THAT
HEALTH PROFESSIONALS, INDIVIDUALS IN NEED WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN
AFFECTED, AS YOU'VE HEARD. AND I AM FOREVER PROUD OF MY SON FOR
PARTICIPATING IN THIS PROGRAM AND HELPING SAVE WHAT WE THINK AT THIS
POINT IS FIVE LIVES, FIVE FAMILIES WHO HAVE BEEN AFFECTED. WE PRAY,
12
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MEGAN AND I DO, EACH AND EVERY MORNING WHEN WE GET UP, FOR THOSE
FAMILIES AND FOR THE LIVES THAT THEY'VE TOUCHED. AND WHAT I WANT TO SAY
TODAY IS THAT I WILL CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE FOR THIS PROGRAM, AND I
ENCOURAGE ALL OTHER LOCAL AND STATE LEADERS TO PROMOTE IT ON BEHALF OF
ALL NEW YORKERS, THE 20 MILLION OF US WHO CALL NEW YORK STATE HOME.
NO PARENT EVER WANTS TO OUTLIVE THEIR CHILD, BUT IF ONE MUST, THEN THE
DONATE LIFE PROGRAM IS AN INCREDIBLE WAY TO CREATE SOME GOODNESS OUT
OF TRAGEDY.
I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE IN THIS BODY AND TO ALSO
ENCOURAGE YOUR COLLEAGUES IN THE SENATE AND THE MEMBERS OF THIS
ADMINISTRATION TO HELP SPREAD AWARENESS OF THIS PROGRAM TO OUR STATE.
IF WE CAN SPREAD AWARENESS AND EDUCATION AND PROMOTE LEGISLATION,
MORE FAMILIES LIKE OURS WILL HOPEFULLY BE INSPIRED TO GIVE THE ULTIMATE
GIFT BECAUSE IT'S TRULY A BLESSING TO BE ABLE TO GIVE THE GIFT OF LIFE TO
SOMEONE IN NEED, AND AJ'S COURAGE IN DOING SO CANNOT BE OVERSTATED.
I WANT TO COMMEND ASSEMBLYMEMBER PALMESANO FOR
HIS PERSEVERANCE ON THIS ISSUE, THE MAJORITY LEADER FOR HER STEADFAST
LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE, AND ASK ALL OF YOU TO JOIN ME IN OUR MISSION TO
UPDATE THE DONATE LIFE PROGRAM FOR NEW YORK STATE.
THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ARI BROWN ON
THE RESOLUTION.
MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT
TO THANK ASSEMBLYMEMBER PALMESANO, CERTAINLY THE MAJORITY LEADER
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
AND OUR HEROES, MEGAN, THE COLONEL AND AJ FOR BEING THE BEST
EMISSARIES FOR THIS ISSUE. THE JEWISH PEOPLE HAVE SURVIVED INTACT MORE
THAN ANY OTHER GROUP BECAUSE WE'RE -- WE'VE LEFT EVERYTHING
UNCHANGED; OUR CUSTOMS, OUR SPEECH, MANNERISMS. I COULD SPEAK TO
MOSES IF HE WERE ALIVE TODAY, I COULD SPEAK TO JESUS IN NORMAL TONGUE.
NO OTHER RACE, RELIGION OR CREED CAN DO THAT. WE DON'T CHANGE OUR
CUSTOMS. SO WHEN I WAS A KID AND THEY SAID, WELL, THERE'S NO SUCH
THING AS ORGAN DONATION BECAUSE THEY HAD THIS THING CALLED (SPEAKING
FOREIGN LANGUAGE), YOU HAVE TO COME BACK WITH ALL OF YOUR ORGANS. I
SAID, REALLY? GOD CAN'T FIGURE OUT A WAY IF HE'S BRINGING US BACK
ANYWAY? JUST THROW ME BACK WHATEVER IT IS I'M MISSING. LUCKILY, THIS
IS THE ONE THING THAT ACTUALLY CHANGED. I ALWAYS GAVE BLOOD SINCE I WAS
18 OR 20, WHATEVER IT WAS, 18 YEARS OLD, AND I'M IN THE FEW GALLON OR
100-GALLON MARK, WHATEVER IT IS. I HAD A FRIEND A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO
WHO NEEDED A KIDNEY. I TESTED, I DIDN'T MATCH, AND I KEPT TESTING OVER
THE YEARS. I THINK IT WAS OCTOBER OR SEPTEMBER I GOT A CALL, MR. BROWN,
YOU'RE A MATCH. I SAID, GREAT, LET'S DO IT BECAUSE I GOT TO GET TO ALBANY.
SO DECEMBER 11TH I DONATED A KIDNEY, AND IT TURNED OUT IT WAS FOR
ANOTHER GRANDFATHER AND A PURPLE HEART VETERAN, AND WE MET. THEY
SAID, NO, YOU'VE GOT TO WAIT TO MEET. I SAID, YOU KNOW, THE
GRANDFATHERS ARE GONNA TO MEET. FORGET ABOUT WHAT YOUR PROTOCOL IS.
AND I SAID TO HIM ONE IMPORTANT THING, I SAID, YOU BETTER LIVE FOREVER,
IF NOT I'M GONNA KILL YA.
(LAUGHTER)
SO I SAID, NOW THAT YOU HAVE THREE KIDNEYS AND I HAVE
14
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ONE, YOU KNOW, MAKE GOOD USE OF IT. IMMEDIATELY WHEN THEY
TRANSPLANTED HE LIT UP AND HIS WIFE SAID, WE HAVE A LIFE. IMAGINE BEING
HOOKED UP SEVERAL TIMES A WEEK TO A MACHINE FOR HOURS A DAY, THERE IS
NO LIFE AT ALL. AND I WILL TELL EVERYBODY, I'M LOOKING AROUND THE ROOM,
IT'S EASY. I WAS OUT IN LESS THAN 36 HOURS; YES, THAT WAS A RECORD, BUT
NEVERTHELESS, A LITTLE SHOULDER PAIN. GUYS, THIS IS REALLY THE SIMPLEST
THING TO DO. I'M HEALTHY, AND THANK GOD I SEE NO ADVERSE EFFECTS. I
ACTUALLY AM BENCHING, LIKE, A LITTLE MORE, ALMOST A LITTLE OVER THREE
PLATES ON EACH SIDE. DO IT, ORGAN DONATION.
THANK YOU, SPONSOR, FOR -- FOR BRINGING THIS
RESOLUTION.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. FITZPATRICK ON THE RESOLUTION.
MR. FITZPATRICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I,
TOO, WOULD LIKE TO RISE AND THANK THE SPONSOR AND THE MAJORITY LEADER
FOR THEIR SUPPORT ON THIS ISSUE. AND I'D JUST LIKE TO TELL A LITTLE STORY
ABOUT A MEMBER OF MY STAFF, MY CHIEF-OF-STAFF KATHY ALBRECHT, WHO
RESPONDED TO AN ARTICLE IN OUR LOCAL NEWSPAPER ABOUT A YOUNG GIRL
SUFFERING FROM A VERY RARE DISORDER THAT CAUSED HER KIDNEYS BASICALLY TO
DIE, AND FIVE PEOPLE RESPONDED TO THIS ARTICLE TO OFFER A KIDNEY OF
THEIRS. AND AS THE PROCESS OF QUALIFICATION BEGAN, TWO OF THE FIVE
FAILED AND WERE NOT ELIGIBLE, TWO OTHERS HAD A CHANGE OF HEART. THEY
CHANGE THEIR MIND, DECIDED THEY DIDN'T WANT TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.
THAT LEFT KATHY AS THE LAST POSSIBLE DONOR STANDING. AND THE FAMILY
15
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
BECAME A LITTLE BIT WORRIED AND CONCERNED THAT MAYBE KATHY WOULD
CHANGE HER MIND AS WELL, AND SHE SAID TO THE FAMILY, DO NOT WORRY, I'M
COMMITTED TO DOING THIS TO HELP SAVE YOUR DAUGHTER. AND AS TIME WENT
ON, SHORTLY THEREAFTER THE YOUNG GIRL BECAME ILL. AND SHE RECOVERED,
BUT THEY COULD NOT PERFORM THE TRANSPLANT FOR 90 DAYS. THE YOUNG GIRL
HAD TO BE HEALTHY FOR AT LEAST 90 DAYS BEFORE THEY COULD DO THE
TRANSPLANT. AGAIN, THE FAMILY BECAME A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT KATHY
MIGHT CHANGE HER MIND. KATHY SAID, RELAX, I'M COMMITTED. I WILL
DONATE MY KIDNEY TO YOUR DAUGHTER FOR HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES. THAT
TIME CAME, KATHY DONATED HER KIDNEY. SHE BOUNCED BACK LIKE ARI, 36
HOURS SHE WAS BACK ON HER FEET, HAD NONE OF THE SYMPTOMS THAT CAN
POSSIBLY HAPPEN TO A LIVE DONOR. SHE WAS BACK AT WORK IN A COUPLE OF
DAYS LIKE NOTHING EVER HAPPENED. THAT YOUNG GIRL LIVED FOR A NUMBER
OF YEARS, SHE HAS SINCE PASSED AWAY, UNFORTUNATELY. BUT SHE WAS GIVEN
EXTRA LIFE BECAUSE OF THE GENEROSITY OF KATHY ALBRECHT, MY
CHIEF-OF-STAFF. BECAUSE OF WHAT KATHY DID, HER HUSBAND DAVE, A
RETIRED NYPD OFFICER, DECIDED TO DONATE A KIDNEY OF HIS TO A STRANGER.
JUST TAKE ONE, I'M HAPPY TO GIVE IT TO ANYONE WHO CAN USE IT. I SIGNED
THE BACK OF MY LICENSE AND HAPPILY BECAME A POTENTIAL DONOR MYSELF.
SO, THIS IS A WONDERFUL PROGRAM. I'M VERY PROUD OF
KATHY AND DAVE AND EVERYONE WHO HAS DONATED A KIDNEY OR HAS SIGNED
UP. IT'S NOT A HARD THING TO DO, WE SHOULD ALL DO IT. AND SAVING A LIFE,
IT'S -- IT'S WORTH EVERY EFFORT. SO THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AND PLEASE
SIGN UP, EVERYBODY. LET'S -- LET'S MAKE THIS HAPPEN. NEW YORK SHOULD
BE NUMBER ONE, NOT NUMBER 50 OR AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HEAP IN TERMS OF
16
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
DONATION HERE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. GOODELL ON THE RESOLUTION.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WE'VE HEARD FROM
SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN PERSONALLY AFFECTED IN MULTIPLE WAYS BY
GIVING A GIFT OF LIFE, AND THAT'S WHAT ORGAN DONATION IS ABOUT. IT'S ABOUT
A GIFT OF LIFE. YOU KNOW, WE AS A SOCIETY SOMETIMES, WE'LL GET TOGETHER
AND WE'LL CELEBRATE A HERO. NOW, SOMEBODY THAT SHOWED UP AT AN
ACCIDENT AND SAVED SOMEBODY'S LIFE OR WAS A FIRST RESPONDER AND RAN
INTO A BUILDING FACING DANGER. BUT THERE ARE OTHER HEROES IN THIS WORLD.
AND A REAL HERO IN THIS WORLD IS SOMEONE WHO SAVES SOMEBODY ELSE'S
LIFE, AND THAT'S WHAT ORGAN DONATION IS ABOUT. IT'S ABOUT GIVING THE GIFT
OF LIFE. I OFFERED TO GIVE PART OF MY LIVER TO A NEIGHBOR WHO WAS VERY
SICK. I WAS REJECTED. IT'S NOT EASY BEING REJECTED, AND UNLIKE ARI I
DIDN'T HAVE THE FORTITUDE TO KEEP TRYING. ARI, CONGRATULATIONS. MY
DAUGHTER DONATED A KIDNEY TO A CLASSMATE. ALLOWED THAT CLASSMATE TO
LIVE A NORMAL LIFE. MY COUSIN ANN, A VERY BEAUTIFUL, VIVACIOUS YOUNG
WOMAN, WAS ON VACATION IN FLORIDA WITH HER FAMILY, 56 YEARS OLD, HAD
A BRAIN ANEURYSM, DIED ON THE SPOT IN THE HOTEL ROOM WITH HER FAMILY.
YOU CAN IMAGINE THE DEVASTATION. THREE YOUNG KIDS, A HUSBAND. BUT
ANN HAD MADE THE DECISION IN ADVANCE TO BE AN ORGAN DONOR. SO, YOU
KNOW, THEY KEPT HER ON LIFE SUPPORT UNTIL THEY MADE ALL THE
ARRANGEMENTS. AND WHEN I SAY IT'S A GIFT OF LIFE, IT'S A GIFT THAT KEEPS
GIVING. BECAUSE THAT FAMILY GOT LETTERS FROM ALL THE PEOPLE WHO GOT
ORGANS FROM ANN WHOSE LIVES WERE FOREVER CHANGED. AND WHAT A
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
BLESSING TO THE FAMILY, AS IT WILL BE FOR OUR ASSEMBLYMEN COLLEAGUES.
SO WE ALL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEROES. WE ALL
HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE SOMEONE'S LIFE IN AN INCREDIBLY
IMPORTANT AND MEANINGFUL MANNER. SO THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUES ON
BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE FOR THEIR RECOGNITION OF HOW INCREDIBLY
IMPORTANT IT IS TO BE AN ORGAN DONOR.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING
AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1066, MR.
CUNNINGHAM.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM FEBRUARY 7, 2024, ST. VINCENT FLAG DAY IN
THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1067, MR.
BRABENEC.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM AUGUST 21, 2024, AS ONION APPRECIATION
DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
18
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1068, MS.
SEAWRIGHT.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 2024, AS AUTISM AND
NEURODIVERGENCE AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SEAWRIGHT ON THE
RESOLUTION.
MS. SEAWRIGHT: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AS
CHAIR OF THE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES COMMITTEE, I RISE TO SPEAK ABOUT
THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS RESOLUTION PROCLAIMING THE MONTH OF APRIL AS
AUTISM AND NEURODIVERGENCE AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW
YORK. NEURODIVERSITY [SIC] AWARENESS MONTH IS A TIME TO CHALLENGE
STEREOTYPES AND MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT OUR NEUROLOGICAL DIFFERENCES.
THE NEURODIVERSITY MOVEMENT WAS LAUNCHED BY A WOMAN NAMED JUDY
SINGER, AN AUSTRALIAN SOCIOLOGIST WHO HERSELF IS ON THE AUTISM
SPECTRUM. SINGER SAW NEURODIVERSITY AS A SOCIAL JUSTICE MOVEMENT TO
PROMOTE EQUALITY OF WHAT SHE CALLED "NEUROLOGICAL MINORITIES", PEOPLE
WHOSE BRAINS WORK IN ATYPICAL WAYS. ANOTHER WOMAN, TEMPLE
GRANDIN, A PH.D SCHOLAR WITH AUTISM, WILL BE THE SUNY STATE
UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT COBLESKILL COMMENCEMENT SPEAKER AND
RECEIVING AN HONORARY DOCTORATE. HER LIFE STORY IS PLAYING ON NATIONAL
TV RIGHT NOW, DOCUMENTING THE ADVANCEMENTS THAT SHE HAS MADE IN
THE AGRICULTURAL FIELD. ALL OF US PROBABLY KNOW AND LOVE SOMEONE WITH
AUTISM OR WHO IS NEURODIVERGENT. ABOUT 1 IN 36 CHILDREN HAVE BEEN
19
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
IDENTIFIED WITH AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDER, ASD. THIRTY-ONE PERCENT
OF CHILDREN WITH AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDER ALSO HAVE AN INTELLECTUAL
DISABILITY. FIFTEEN TO 20 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION IS NEURODIVERGENT.
SEVERAL RECOGNIZED TYPES OF NEURODIVERGENCE INCLUDE AUTISM,
ASPERGER'S SYNDROME, DYSLEXIA, DYSCALCULIA, EPILEPSY, HYPOLEXIA,
DYSPRAXIA, ADHD, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER AND TOURETTE
SYNDROME. INDIVIDUALS WITH AUTISM WHO ARE NEURODIVERSE OFTEN HAVE
UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES AND WAYS OF THINKING THAT THEY CAN LEAD TO
BREAKTHROUGHS IN SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY AND OTHER FIELDS, SUCH AS TEMPLE
GRANDIN, WHOSE BREAKTHROUGH LED TO THE HUMANE TREATMENT OF
SLAUGHTER HOUSES.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE AND WORK TO RESPOND TO
THE NEEDS OF THIS VIBRANT POPULATION. WE MUST ALL RESOLVE TO EMBRACE
OUR DIFFERENCES AND MAKE SOCIAL SPACES AND FIELDS INCLUSIVE OF ALL. I
CAST MY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
ON THE RESOLUTION -- OH, I'M SORRY. MR. SANTABARBARA
ON THE RESOLUTION.
MR. SANTABARBARA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
I RISE TO SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION. AS A STATE LEGISLATOR AND A FATHER OF A
SON WITH AUTISM, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING IT FORWARD
AND GIVING US AN OPPORTUNITY TO RECOGNIZE ITS MEANING. AUTISM AND
NEURODIVERGENCE ARE NOT MERELY ABSTRACT CONCEPTS, THEY ARE INTEGRAL
PARTS OF OUR COMMUNITY AFFECTING COUNTLESS LIVES. WE ACKNOWLEDGE
THIS MONTH OF RECOGNITION AND UNDERSTAND NEURODIVERGENCE
20
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ENCOMPASSES A SPECTRUM OF CONDITIONS, INCLUDING AUTISM, DYSLEXIA,
ADHD AND MORE. EACH INDIVIDUAL ON THE SPECTRUM POSSESSES UNIQUE
ABILITIES AND CHALLENGES, DESERVING ACCEPTANCE AND SUPPORT. MOREOVER,
THE DISPARITIES AND DIAGNOSIS AND ACCESS TO RESOURCES AMONG DIFFERENT
DEMOGRAPHICS AS HIGHLIGHTED BY THE CDC, DESERVE -- DEMAND OUR
ATTENTION AND ACTION. TOO OFTEN, EARLY SIGNS OF AUTISM ARE OVERLOOKED
OR MISUNDERSTOOD, LEADING TO DELAYED INTERVENTION AND SUPPORT. WE
MUST ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT AUTISM IS NOT SOLELY DEFINED BY ITS CHALLENGES,
IT'S PART OF A PERSON'S IDENTITY, ENRICHING OUR COMMUNITIES WITH DIVERSE
PERSPECTIVES AND TALENTS.
SO BY PASSING THIS RESOLUTION HERE TODAY PROCLAIMING
APRIL 2024 AS AUTISM AND NEURODIVERGENCE AWARENESS MONTH, WE
AFFIRM OUR COMMITMENT TO FOSTERING INCLUSIVE COMMUNITIES WHERE
EVERY INDIVIDUAL, REGARDLESS OF NEURODIVERSITY, CAN THRIVE. TOGETHER,
LET'S ADVOCATE FOR GREATER UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE, AND SUPPORT
FOR THOSE ON THE SPECTRUM, ENSURING THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THE
OPPORTUNITIES THEY DESERVE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. DAIS ON THE RESOLUTION.
MR. DAIS: MY SUPPORT FOR THE RESOLUTION IS FOR WHO
I CALL MY NEPHEW, NOEL. ONE OF MY BEST FRIEND'S SONS WAS NONVERBAL
FROM A YOUNG AGE. THEIR PARENTS GOT THE SERVICES TO ENSURE THAT HE
COULD HAVE A MORE PRODUCTIVE LIFE. SOMETHING I'M PROUD OF BEING A
NEW YORKER, WE DO A GOOD JOB, BETTER THAN MOST STATES, IN PROVIDING
RESOURCES FOR FAMILIES THAT HAVE CHILDREN THAT ARE DEALING WITH AUTISM
21
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
OR NEURODIVERGENCE. WE HAVE TO CONTINUE THIS SUPPORT OF OUR NEW
YORKERS, TO THE FAMILIES, TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE
RESOURCES THAT WILL ALLOW THEM TO CONTINUE TO PROVIDE -- I MEAN, TO
PROVIDE RESOURCES FOR THEIR CHILDREN SO THEY CAN THRIVE. WE HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND THE DIFFICULTIES THAT PARENTS FACE WHEN THEY HAVE CHILDREN
WITH AUTISM, AND WHEN WE DO OUR LEGISLATION AND WHEN WE THINK ABOUT
WHAT WE CARE ABOUT IN OUR BUDGET AND ALL THE OTHER LEGISLATIVE AGENDAS,
MAKE SURE WE KEEP THEM IN MIND.
THE ONE QUICK STORY I'LL TELL ABOUT NOEL, HE SAW ME
FROM OVER 200 YARDS AWAY IN MY CAR COMING OPPOSITE WAYS. HE GOT
REALLY EXCITED AND HIS DAD WOULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHY HE WAS GETTING
EXCITED IN HIS CAR SEAT. HE HAD THIS AMAZING VISION, AND HE COULD SEE --
AND HE COULD SEE ME FROM ACROSS THE WAY. HIS SMILE, HOW HE LIT UP,
I'VE SEEN IT BECAUSE I ALWAYS GAVE HIM A BIG HUG, TREATED HIM WITH A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RESPECT BECAUSE I REALIZED HE IS SPECIAL. I
UNDERSTAND THAT THE PARENTS GO THROUGH SOMETHING SO SERIOUS WHEN
THEY'RE DEALING WITH THIS.
SO I APPRECIATE THE RESOLUTION -- APPRECIATE THE
RESOLUTION AND I'M VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MS. GIGLIO.
MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I THANK THE
SPONSOR FOR PUTTING UP THIS RESOLUTION, IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT RESOLUTION.
AND I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT BUDGETS ARE ABOUT PRIORITIES. AND THE
DSPS, DIRECT SERVICE PROFESSIONALS WHO TAKE CARE OF MANY PEOPLE
22
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THROUGHOUT THE STATE WHO HAVE INTELLECTUAL AND DEVELOPMENTAL
DISABILITIES INCLUDING AUTISM AND NEURODIVERGENCE ARE REALLY BECOMING
SCARCE THROUGHOUT THE STATE. THERE IS A SHORTAGE. I -- I WANT YOU TO ALL
RECOGNIZE EVERYBODY THAT WAS HERE TODAY WITH THE MOVEMENT TO
SUPPORT OUR DIRECT SERVICE PROFESSIONALS, OUR NURSES, THE PEOPLE THAT
COOK IN -- IN THESE HOMES AND IN PEOPLE'S HOMES. IT'S A VERY SPECIAL
COMMUNITY, AND LIKE I SAID, PRIORITY -- BUDGETS ARE A PRIORITY STATEMENT
FROM THE STATE. AND I'M HOPING THAT WE CAN FIND CONSENSUS BETWEEN
THE ASSEMBLY ONE-HOUSE AND THE SENATE ONE-HOUSE TO PROVIDE NOT
ONLY THE COLA, BUT WAGE ENHANCEMENTS FOR THE PEOPLE THAT TAKE CARE
OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE INTELLECTUAL AND DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1069, MS.
SOLAGES.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 2024, AS CESAREAN AWARENESS MONTH
IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 1070, MR.
SMITH.
23
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 2024, AS MATHEMATIC -- MATHEMATICS
AND STATISTICS AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
WE'LL GO TO PAGE 22, CALENDAR NO. 201, THE CLERK WILL
READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07167, CALENDAR NO.
201, SOLAGES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PERSONAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION
TO PROHIBITING CERTAIN PROVISIONS IN RETAIL LEASE AGREEMENTS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES, A
EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
AND WILL WE PLEASE, MEMBERS, TAKE YOUR SEATS. WE
NEED A LITTLE QUIET. IF YOU HAVE CONVERSATIONS, TAKE THEM OUTSIDE THE
CHAMBER.
MS. SOLAGES, PROCEED.
MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL
WOULD BAR CERTAIN FEES AT THE EXPIRATION OF A MOTOR VEHICLE LEASE. FEES
THAT WOULD BE BARRED ARE LEVIED SOLELY FOR ADMINISTRATIVE, HANDLING OR
CLERICAL PURPOSES. THIS BILL WOULD NOT BAR FEES LEVIED IF THE DRIVER
EXCEEDS CONTRACTUAL MILEAGE ALLOTMENT NOR FEES ASSOCIATED WITH
DAMAGE DONE TO THE VEHICLE BEYOND NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR. SO WE'RE
JUST TACKLING JUNK FEES WHEN IT COMES TO RETURNING VEHICLES UPON LEASE
EXPIRATION.
24
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES YIELDS,
SIR.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. SOLAGES. I FIRST
WANT TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S COVERED OR NOT COVERED BY THIS
BILL.
MS. SOLAGES: MM-HMM.
MR. GOODELL: SO, IF THE VEHICLE IS RETURNED AND
IT'S EMPTY, CAN THE DEALER CHARGE TO REFILL THE VEHICLE WITH GAS?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS TACKLING
ADMINISTRATIVE FEES, HANDLING FEES AND CLERICAL FEES. SO IF IT'S NOT
CLERICAL -- LIKE, IF IT'S NOT DEALING WITH ANY OF THOSE THREE SECTIONS, THEN
THEY CAN'T CHARGE THOSE FEES.
MR. GOODELL: SO THEY COULD, THEN, CHARGE TO REFILL
IT --
MS. SOLAGES: THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A JUNK
FEE.
MR. GOODELL: I'M SORRY?
MS. SOLAGES: THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A JUNK
FEE.
25
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MR. GOODELL: A JUST FEE.
MS. SOLAGES: JUNK. A JUNK FEE.
MR. GOODELL: WHAT ABOUT CLEANING THE CAR? YOU
KNOW, VACUUMING IT OUT, DETAILING IT, WASHING IT, WAXING IT.
MS. SOLAGES: SO MANY OF THESE DEALERSHIPS
INCORPORATE THAT WHEN YOU NEGOTIATE, SO IT'S IN THE -- IN THE, YOU KNOW,
THE PRICE OF THE LEASE WHEN YOU GO UPON THE NEGOTIATION OF IT. SO THAT
-- IF THEY'RE CHARGING A FEE AFTER THE FACT, THAT IS -- THAT WOULD BE
ENCOMPASSED OF THE BILL SO THEY CANNOT CHARGE AN EXTRA FEE.
MR. GOODELL: SO THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO
CHARGE FOR CLEANING, DETAILING IT, WAXING IT, GETTING IT READY FOR
RE-LEASING OR RESALE, CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, THAT WOULD BE INCORPORATED IN
THE COST OF -- OF LEASING THE CAR. SO IF -- IF THEY'RE DOING IT AFTER THE
FACT, THAT WOULD -- THAT WOULD BE A FEE THAT THEY CAN'T LEVY.
MR. GOODELL: NOW, ONE OF THE FEES THAT'S OFTEN
LEVIED AT THE END AS I UNDERSTAND IT IS THE COST OF -- OF RELOCATING THE
VEHICLE.
MS. SOLAGES: MM-HMM, COMMONLY KNOWN AS A
DESTINATION FEE.
MR. GOODELL: YES. AND IS THAT PROHIBITED BY THIS
BILL?
MS. SOLAGES: THAT WOULD BE PROHIBITED BY THIS
BILL.
MR. GOODELL: WHAT ABOUT THE STORAGE, TEMPORARY
26
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
STORAGE OF THE VEHICLE? I MEAN, YOU BRING IT ON MONDAY, EVEN IF THE
DEALER DOESN'T CALL -- CHARGE YOU THE COST OF RELOCATING IT, THEY MAY
HAVE TO STORE IT TEMPORARILY UNTIL IT CAN BE MOVED SOMEWHERE ELSE. IS
THE TEMPORARY STORAGE FEE INCLUDED OR NOT INCLUDED?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
THE DIFFERENT FEES. SO THIS BILL WOULD SIMPLY PROHIBIT CHARGING A
TURN-IN FEE OR ANY SORT OF FEE, A HANDLING FEE, ADMINISTRATIVE FEE, WHEN
YOU TURN IN THE MOTOR VEHICLE AT THE END OF THE LEASE. AND WE SEE THAT
THIS IS A COMMON THING THAT DOES HAPPEN. JUST RECENTLY, THE -- THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL OPENED UP AN INVESTIGATION ON NISSAN DEALERSHIPS IN
NEW YORK CITY AND LONG ISLAND, AND THEY FOUND THAT THE DEALERSHIPS
WERE ADDING ALL THESE ADMINISTRATIVE DEALERSHIP FEES AT THE END,
SOMETIMES OVERCHARGING INDIVIDUALS $7,000 -- $7,000 TO $18,000 IN
THE -- IN THE INVOICE AFTER THE FACT. SO THESE CUSTOMERS WERE UNAWARE
OF THAT LEASE FEES WERE HAPPENING. AND SO IT'S NOT FAIR WHEN WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT THE -- WHEN CONSUMERS ARE LURED INTO A PROMISE OF A LOW
PRICE, BUT AT THE END OF THE LEASE ALL OF A SUDDEN THESE FEES ARE BEING
ADDED AND LEVIED ONTO THE CONSUMER.
MR. GOODELL: NOW, I --
MS. SOLAGES: AND SO IN THIS BILL WE'RE TRYING TO
MAKE SURE THAT ESPECIALLY AS WERE SUFFERING AN AFFORDABILITY CRISIS, WE
WANT TO GET RID OF THE -- THE JUNK FEES THAT THEY'RE -- THEY'RE DEALING
WITH AND MAKE OUR ECONOMY MORE TRANSPARENT. JUST SAYING THAT, YOU
KNOW, ALL THIS SHOULD BE INCORPORATED AT THE BEGINNING INTO THE PRICE OF
THE CAR, INTO THE PRICE OF THE LEASE, SO THAT CONSUMERS ARE WELL AWARE
27
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THAT THIS IS COMING THROUGH. AND SO ADDING THESE FEES AT THE END
WITHOUT HAVING THE CONVERSATION WITH THE CONSUMER IS -- IS UNEXPECTED
AND UNNECESSARY, UNFAIR TO THE CONSUMER.
MR. GOODELL: NOW, YOU MENTIONED THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL IS INITIATING AN INVESTIGATION, WHICH LEADS ME TO CONCLUDE THAT
UNFAIR FEES THAT ARE UNJUSTIFIED BY THE CONTRACT ARE ALREADY PROHIBITED,
OTHERWISE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WOULDN'T BE INVESTIGATING IT, CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, MANY OF THESE FEES, LIKE FOR
EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, I'M A PERSON WHO LIKES TO LEASE CARS, AND SO MANY
OF THESE ADMINISTRATIVE FEES, YOU KNOW, CLEANUP FEES ARE ACTUALLY, YOU
KNOW, THEY -- THEY EXEMPT THEM. THEY GET RID OF THE FEES IF YOU SIGN
UP FOR ANOTHER LEASE.
MR. GOODELL: RIGHT, BUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS
ONLY LOOKING AT FEES THAT VIOLATE CURRENT LAW, CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, THEY WERE -- THEY WEREN'T
LOOKING -- THEY DID AN INVESTIGATION ON THEM AND THEY WERE LOOKING AT
-- THEY -- THEY WERE DOING THE INVESTIGATION BECAUSE THERE WERE REPORTS
OF OVERCHARGING CONSUMERS AND GIVING THEM INACCURATE RECEIPTS. SO
THEY WERE --
MR. GOODELL: MAYBE I'M NOT BEING CLEAR IN MY
QUESTION. AM I CORRECT THAT OVERCHARGING AND OTHER ABUSES THAT THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL WERE INVESTIGATING ARE ALREADY BARRED UNDER CURRENT
LAW, CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
MR. GOODELL: OKAY.
28
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MS. SOLAGES: SO, WE DID PASS SOME TYPE OF
LEGISLATION HERE -- LET ME LOOK AT MY NOTES RIGHT HERE. SO, WE ADOPTED
THE NEW YORK STATE MOTOR VEHICLE LEASING ACT, AND SO THERE WAS
LANGUAGE THAT SAID THAT THERE CANNOT BE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW,
EXTENSIVE OR -- SORRY, EXCUSE ME. THERE -- THAT CERTAIN EXPENSES COULD
NOT BE LEVIED, BUT WE STILL SEE THAT HAPPENING SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE'RE CLARIFYING THE LAW SO THAT WE HAVE TRANSPARENCY FOR OUR
CONSUMERS.
MR. GOODELL: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE
TRANSPARENCY, THE 1994 MOTOR VEHICLE LEASING ACT DOES REQUIRE ALL
TURN-IN FEES TO BE DESCRIBED IN DETAIL IN THE CONTRACT NOW, CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: IT DOES SAY THAT, YES.
MR. GOODELL: NOW, DOES PENNSYLVANIA OR
CONNECTICUT OR NEW JERSEY BAR TURN-IN FEES?
MS. SOLAGES: AND SO THIS -- THIS -- I UNDERSTAND,
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEW YORK STATE AND
CONSUMERS --
MR. GOODELL: NO, I UNDERSTAND --
MS. SOLAGES: -- ARE PURCHASING CARS IN NEW YORK
STATE.
MR. GOODELL: I'M SORRY, MY QUESTION WAS, DO YOU
KNOW WHETHER PENNSYLVANIA, NEW JERSEY OR CONNECTICUT IMPOSE THESE
TYPES OF FEES OR BAR THOSE FEES?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, I DON'T HAVE RESEARCH, BUT MY
WORK AS A NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATOR, MY CONCERN IS FOR CURRENT NEW
29
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
YORKERS RIGHT NOW --
MR. GOODELL: NOW, NOTHING IN --
MS. SOLAGES: -- AND MAKING SURE THAT NEW
YORKERS WHO ON AVERAGE PURCHASE CARS IN A LOCAL DEALERSHIP IN THEIR
NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY WHEN IT COMES TO
PURCHASING A CAR.
MR. GOODELL: AND NOTHING IN THIS BILL WOULD
PROHIBIT A LEASING COMPANY TO TAKE THOSE CHARGES THAT THEY WOULD
NORMALLY CHARGE AT THE END AND CHARGE THEM AT THE BEGINNING, CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, THIS IS OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE OF
THE BILL. AS TURN-IN FEES -- SO THIS IS OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE OF THE BILL.
LIKE, THIS BILL WOULD JUST ALLOW FOR A CLEAN BREAK AT THE END OF THE
LEASE.
MR. GOODELL: GOTCHA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I
APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU.
MR. GOODELL: ON THE BILL, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: SO, RIGHT NOW AND FOR THE LAST 30
YEARS, SINCE 1994 WITH THE MOTOR VEHICLE LEASING ACT, ALL OF THE
CHARGES THAT YOU'RE GOING TO INCUR WHEN YOU LEASE A VEHICLE MUST BY
LAW BE FAIR AND REASONABLE AND DETAILED IN THE LEASE AGREEMENT. THE
LEASE AGREEMENT YOU SIGN RIGHT UPFRONT. AND SOME OF THE BILLS THAT
YOU'RE CHARGED AT THE END, WE KNOW YOU HAVE TO BE CHARGED AT THE END
30
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GONNA BE AT THE BEGINNING, SUCH
AS EXCESS MILEAGE. YOU KNOW, AT THE BEGINNING IF YOU USE MORE
MILEAGE THAN YOU'RE LEASING THE VEHICLE FOR, THEN YOU'RE GONNA GET A
CHARGE AT THE END. AND THE CONDITION OF THE VEHICLE. IF YOU HAVE A
FENDER BENDER OR -- OR MORE SERIOUS ACCIDENT, YOU KNOW AT THE END
YOU'RE GOING TO BE FACING A FEE, AND THOSE FEES CAN'T BE CALCULATED IN
ADVANCE. BUT THE LEASE AGREEMENTS, IN BLACK AND WHITE, VERY
TRANSPARENT AS REQUIRED BY CURRENT LAW, ALLOW THE LEASING COMPANY TO
CHARGE YOU A TURN-IN FEE FOR THE COST OF CLEANING THE VEHICLE, DOING THE
TITLE WORK, DOING THE ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS TO BE DONE -- YOU KNOW IT
HAS TO BE DONE AT THE END -- AND DOING THAT ADMINISTRATIVE WORK. NOW,
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT NONE OF OUR NEIGHBORING STATES PROHIBIT
THOSE FEES FROM BEING CHARGED AT THE END. THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THAT
THOSE FEES BE CHARGED AT THE FRONT END. IT DOESN'T SAVE THE CONSUMERS
ANY MONEY, IT JUST REQUIRES THAT THE CONSUMERS PUT UP MORE OF THEIR
HARD-EARNED CASH AT THE BEGINNING OF THE LEASE RATHER THAN AT THE END.
AND SO NEW YORK LEASING COMPANIES ARE SAYING, WAIT A MINUTE.
WE'RE COMPETING WITH NEW JERSEY AND CONNECTICUT AND PENNSYLVANIA,
AND THEY'RE ALL OFFERING LEASES THAT INVOLVE LESS MONEY UPFRONT, YET THE
PRICE TO THE CONSUMER IS EXACTLY AT THE SAME BECAUSE WE HAVE TO
CHARGE THE TURN-IN FEES UPFRONT AND THEY CHARGE THE TURN-IN FEES AT THE
END AND IT PUTS US AT A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE [SIC] WITHOUT ANY BENEFIT
TO THE CONSUMER.
AND SO LET'S BE CLEAR: NO ONE IN THIS ROOM SUPPORTS
EXCESSIVE CHARGES. NO ONE SUPPORTS CHARGES THAT VIOLATE THE LEASE
31
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO THAT, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CORRECTLY AND
PROPERLY HAS THE AUTHORITY TO INVESTIGATE YOU; CAN AND SHOULD. SO THE
ONLY QUESTION IN THIS BILL IS, ARE WE GONNA REQUIRE NEW YORK LEASING
COMPANIES TO CHARGE ALL THESE EXPENSES UPFRONT, CREATING AN -- AN
ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL BURDEN FOR ANYONE WHO IS OF LIMITED INCOME AND
WANTS TO LEASE A -- A CAR, WHO IS PLANNING TO PUT A LITTLE BIT ASIDE EVERY
MONTH IF THEY NEED BE TO PAY THE CLOSING EXPENSES? DO WE WANNA
FORCE EVERYONE TO PUT UP MORE MONEY UPFRONT? AND DO WE WANT TO PUT
NEW YORK LEASING COMPANIES AT A COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE FROM ALL
THE LEASING COMPANIES RIGHT ACROSS THE BORDER WHO ALLOW THE CUSTOMER
TO PAY LESS MONEY UPFRONT WITH A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY HAVE A
YEAR OR TWO YEARS OR HOWEVER THE LENGTH OF THE LEASE IS, TO COME UP
WITH THE CLOSING EXPENSES? LET'S LET THE MARKET ACT PROPERLY, AS WE
HAVE FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS. LET THE DEALERS GIVE A BREAK TO THE
CONSUMER SO THEY CAN GET INTO A LEASED CAR WITHOUT MORTGAGING THEIR
HOUSE WITH THE UPFRONT COSTS.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NOVAKHOV.
MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES YIELDS,
SIR.
32
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. JUST ONE
QUICK QUESTION. CAN THE -- CAN THOSE PAYMENTS BE KIND OF SPREAD AND
PUT IN THE MONTHLY --
MS. SOLAGES: I'M SORRY, I COULDN'T HEAR THE
QUESTION. COULD YOU JUST SPEAKER LOUDER?
MR. NOVAKHOV: YEAH, SURE. A QUICK QUESTION.
THOSE PAYMENTS THAT NEEDED TO BE PAID IN THE -- IN THE FRONT, IN THE
BEGINNING OF THE LEASE, RIGHT, BEFORE THE LEASE, CAN THEY BE PUT INTO THE
PAYMENTS OF THE LEASE TO SPREAD OUT FOR THE TERM OF THE LEASE?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, JUST A POINT OF CLARIFICATION. A
LOT OF THESE FEES ARE WAIVED WHEN YOU CONTINUE TO LEASE WITH THE
DEALERSHIP. SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THESE FEES, SOME OF
THESE ARE JUST USED TO PAD THE, YOU KNOW, THE PROFITS OF THE CAR. SO, FOR
EXAMPLE, I LEASED A CAR THE OTHER DAY AND BECAUSE I CONTINUE TO LEASE
WITH ONE COMPANY, THEY WAIVED ALL THESE ADMINISTRATIVE FEES, YOU
KNOW, DESTINATION FEES. AND SO SOME OF THESE FEES ARE JUST
NONEXISTENT, AND SO THIS IS ENSURING THAT WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE PROTECTING
NEW YORKERS FROM THESE UNNECESSARY FEES. SO AGAIN, THE -- WE'RE JUST
TRYING TO ENSURE THAT THESE FEES ARE NOT PUT TO THE CONSUMER.
MR. NOVAKHOV: SO, MR. GOODELL JUST -- JUST
MENTIONED THAT THIS IS NOT ABOUT ELIMINATING THE FEES, THIS IS ABOUT
PUTTING THESE FEES -- INSTEAD OF PAYING THE FEES AT THE END OF THE LEASE,
PAYING THEM IN -- IN -- BEFORE THE -- THE LEASE; IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT
TRUE?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, THIS WOULD NOT INCLUDE ANY
33
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MILEAGE OVERAGES OR THE CONDITION OF THE CAR. YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE
STANDARD FEES THAT WILL STILL EXIST.
MR. NOVAKHOV: RIGHT.
MS. SOLAGES: THIS BILL WOULD JUST BASICALLY SAY
THAT -- EXCUSE ME -- IT WOULD PROHIBIT ANY RETAIL LEASING AGREEMENT
FROM CONTAINING SUCH FEES OR CHARGE SO THAT SUCH A CLAUSE IN THE LEASE
COULD NOT BE UNFORESEEN. SO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE FEES THAT ARE
JUST USED FOR THE DEALERSHIP WOULD -- WOULD NOT BE LEVIED ON NEW
YORKERS.
MR. NOVAKHOV: IN OTHER WORDS, ADMINISTRATIVE
FEES, RIGHT?
MS. SOLAGES: EXACTLY. ADMINISTRATIVE FEES, YOU
KNOW, DESTINATION FEE, STORAGE FEE EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE --
MR. NOVAKHOV: RIGHT, RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND, I
UNDERSTAND. BUT ARE WE -- DOES THIS BILL ELIMINATE THESE FEES? DOES
THIS BILL --
MS. SOLAGES: YES, IT ELIMINATES IT. IT PROHIBITS
THOSE FEES FROM BEING TRANSLATED TO NEW YORKERS TO THE CONSUMER.
MR. NOVAKHOV: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU SO
MUCH. THANK YOU.
MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
34
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE
REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE
OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, IF THERE ARE ANY MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE IN
FAVOR, THEY CAN DO SO AT THEIR DESKS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF
THIS CONSUMER-FRIENDLY PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE
SOME THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO
SO AT THEIR SEATS. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 12, CALENDAR NO. 94, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03703, CALENDAR NO.
94, EPSTEIN, CARROLL, COLTON, DICKENS, DILAN, GLICK, HEVESI, KIM,
PEOPLES-STOKES, PRETLOW, L. ROSENTHAL, SIMON, PHEFFER AMATO,
SEAWRIGHT, REYES, EACHUS, LEE, CUNNINGHAM. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO THE CLOSURE OF NURSING HOMES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS
35
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
REQUESTED, MR. EPSTEIN.
MR. EPSTEIN: THIS AMENDS THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW,
REQUIRING A 90-DAY NOTICE ABOUT INTENTION TO CLOSE NURSING HOMES IN
NEW YORK STATE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. JENSEN.
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW INSIGHTFUL QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MR. EPSTEIN: ONLY FOR THE INSIGHTFUL ONES, THOUGH.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN YIELDS.
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. EPSTEIN. I
APPRECIATE THAT VERY DETAILED EXPLANATION OF THE BILL. IN THIS LEGISLATION,
WHAT EXACTLY WOULD THE UPDATE TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW PERTAIN TO IN
RELATION TO THE CLOSURE? WHAT -- WHAT ARE THE SPECIFICS?
MR. EPSTEIN: SO RIGHT NOW THERE ARE SOME
REGULATIONS IN PLACE THAT REQUIRE -- THOSE REGULATIONS OUTLINE A
FRAMEWORK TO CLOSE A NURSING HOME, IT DOESN'T REQUIRE ANY PUBLIC
NOTICE OR PUBLIC PARTICIPATION BEFORE THE CLOSURE HAPPENS. THIS
REQUIRES, ONE, A STATUTORY PROVISION, NOT JUST REGULATIONS, AND WITHIN
THOSE STATUTORY LANGUAGE, REQUIRES PUBLIC NOTIFICATION AND AN
OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT ON THE PROPOSED CLOSURE BEFORE THE STATE
HEALTH DEPARTMENT ALLOWS THE FACILITY TO CLOSE.
MR. JENSEN: SO, IN THE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION PROCESS
OF -- OF YOUR LEGISLATION, WHO WOULD BE NOTIFIED OF AN IMPENDING
36
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
CLOSURE OF A NURSING HOME?
MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, SO THE -- THE PEOPLE WHO
WOULD BE NOTIFIED ARE LOCAL COMMUNITY BOARDS, LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS,
AND PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THE PROCESS, AND MIGHT RESULT IN
A PUBLIC HEARING AS WELL.
MR. JENSEN: SO IT JUST WOULD BE NOTIFICATION TO
CERTAIN ELECTED OFFICIALS, NOT THE PUBLIC AT-LARGE?
MR. EPSTEIN: WELL, IT COULD -- IT COULD HAPPEN TO
BOTH. THE BILL REQUIRES NOTIFICATION TO ELECTED OFFICIALS, AND THE ELECTED
OFFICIALS COULD THEN NOTICE THE PUBLIC AT-LARGE. THEY COULD ALSO PUT IT
ON THEIR WEBSITE IF THEY'RE NOTIFYING THE PUBLIC AT-LARGE. BUT THERE ISN'T
A MECHANISM THAT WE'RE -- WE'RE NOT REQUIRING A HEARING, WHICH MIGHT
BE (INAUDIBLE) TO THE LARGER PUBLIC, BUT IT IS -- ONCE IT GETS NOTICE OUT
THERE, IT'LL GET TO THE PUBLIC AT-LARGE IF THEY ARE INTERESTED IN THE ISSUE.
MR. JENSEN: SO I -- I KNOW IN THE LEGISLATION IT
SPECIFICALLY OUTLINES CERTAIN ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO WOULD HAVE TO BE
NOTIFIED, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. BUT IT IS THE -- THE LOCAL CHIEF
EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SO THE MAYOR IF IN NEW YORK CITY OR THE COUNTY
EXECUTIVE. IF OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK CITY, THE PRESIDING OFFICER OF THE
COUNTY LEGISLATIVE BODY, AND IF IN NEW YORK CITY, THE COMMUNITY
BOARD, CORRECT?
MR. EPSTEIN: THOSE ARE -- THOSE ARE THE
INDIVIDUALS THAT WOULD NOTIFY AS WELL AS OTHER LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. DO ANY OF THOSE ENTITIES OR
ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE A STATUTORY ROLE THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF
37
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
HEALTH IN THE POTENTIAL CLOSURE OF A NURSING HOME?
MR. EPSTEIN: WHEN YOU SAY "STATUTORY ROLE," WHAT
--
MR. JENSEN: DO THEY HAVE ANY SAY IN WHETHER OR
NOT A NURSING HOME CAN CLOSE?
MR. EPSTEIN: I THINK EVERY ELECTED OFFICIAL HAS A
SAY TO WHETHER --
MR. JENSEN: THAT'S --
MR. EPSTEIN: -- THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WILL
TAKE GUIDANCE FROM US IN MAKING A DETERMINATION ABOUT WHETHER A
FACILITY SHOULD CLOSE.
MR. JENSEN: BUT UNDER EXISTING NEW YORK STATE
LAW, DOES -- DO THEY HAVE ANY OFFICIAL ROLE IN THE DETERMINATION BY THE
HEALTH COMMISSIONER OR THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WHETHER OR NOT A
NURSING HOME CAN CLOSE?
MR. EPSTEIN: IS YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THEY
HAVE A VOTE?
MR. JENSEN: NO. WHAT -- ARE THEY THE ONES
MAKING THE DETERMINATION WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A CLOSURE?
MR. EPSTEIN: NO, THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT
WILL MAKE THE -- WILL BE THE SOLE ENTITY THAT WILL MAKE THE
DETERMINATION WHETHER IT CAN CLOSE OR NOT.
MR. JENSEN: IS -- IS THERE ANY EXISTING CURRENT STATE
LAW OR CURRENT DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH REGULATION THAT PROHIBITS ANY
ELECTED OFFICIAL OR COMMUNITY MENDER -- MEMBER FROM VOICING THEIR
38
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
OPINION TO THEIR LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS AT THE STATE LEVEL OR THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH ON THE POTENTIAL CLOSURE OF A NURSING HOME?
MR. EPSTEIN: WELL, I GUESS IF THEY DIDN'T KNOW A
NURSING HOME WOULD BE CLOSING, HOW WOULD THEY KNOW TO COMMENT?
SO THE -- THE LAW DOESN'T EXIST NOW, AND THE REGULATIONS DON'T REQUIRE
PUBLIC NOTICE, IT JUST REQUIRES THAT -- THAT THE NURSING HOME THAT ASKED
THAT IT BE CLOSED GIVE A 90-DAY WINDOW AND THEN POTENTIALLY CLOSE.
MR. JENSEN: WELL, THE PEOPLE MOST DIRECTLY
IMPACTED BY THE CLOSURE OF A NURSING HOME WOULD BE THE RESIDENTS OF A
NURSING HOME. AND UNDER EXISTING -- AS YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR -- MY
INITIAL -- ANSWER TO MY INITIAL QUESTION, IS UNDER STATE HEALTH
REGULATIONS THERE'S ALREADY A 90-DAY NOTICE THAT HAS TO BE FURNISHED,
INCLUDING TO THE RESIDENTS OF A POTENTIAL -- TO-BE-CLOSED NURSING HOME
SO THAT THE PEOPLE IN A COMMUNITY MOST DIRECTLY IMPACTED, THE
RESIDENTS AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS, ARE ALREADY BEING NOTIFIED UNDER
EXISTING STATE HEALTH REGS. SO MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT I -- THE -- THE
FURTHER MANDATED NOTIFICATION TO COMMUNITY STAKEHOLDERS, WHILE
IMPORTANT, ISN'T NECESSARY BECAUSE IF THERE'S GONNA BE A CRISIS TO COME,
CERTAINLY THAT'S GONNA BE KNOWN TO THE COMMUNITY AT-LARGE, AS WE'VE
SEEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN WHEN NURSING HOMES ARE BEING PROPOSED TO
BE CLOSED. IT SEEMS AS IF A LOT OF THE MANDATED UPDATES TO THE PUBLIC
HEALTH LAW ARE ALREADY CONTAINED IN EXISTING DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
REGULATIONS AS IT PERTAINS TO NOTIFICATION AND ENSURING SAFE DISCHARGE TO
OTHER FACILITIES FOR RESIDENTS. AM I INCORRECT IN THAT ASSUMPTION?
MR. EPSTEIN: I'M NOT SURE THERE WAS A QUESTION
39
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THERE.
MR. JENSEN: THERE WAS, AND IT WAS REALLY ME
RANTING A LITTLE BIT WITH A QUESTION JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT I DIDN'T GET
ADMONISHED BY THE SPEAKER.
MR. EPSTEIN: SO IF THE QUESTION IS, IS THE
NOTIFICATION SUFFICIENT AS IT EXISTS TODAY I WOULD SAY NO.
MR. JENSEN: SO -- SO YOU DON'T THINK THAT THE
NOTIFICATION THAT'S ALREADY UNDER -- UNDER -- BEING DONE BY THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND THE NURSING HOMES TO THE RESIDENTS AND THEIR
FAMILY MEMBERS IS ROBUST ENOUGH? YOU THINK IT HAS TO GO A STEP
FURTHER?
MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH. I -- AN EXAMPLE, A NURSING
HOME THAT WAS CLOSED DOWN BY ME IN -- IN MY PART OF THE CITY, WE
FOUND OUT AFTER BECAUSE THE RESIDENTS WHO WERE -- WHO WERE LIVING
THERE WERE -- THEY DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH AGENCY AS OTHER PEOPLE IN THE
COMMUNITY, SO THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE PROCESS TO GO THROUGH TO GET
CONNECTED TO THE ELECTED OFFICIALS AND WE FOUND OUT THAT PROCESS
AFTERWARDS. AND SO WE REALIZED THAT THEY HAD APPROVED THE CLOSURE
BEFORE WE EVEN GOT INVOLVED. THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO GET PEOPLE IN FRONT
OF THE ISSUE TO BE ABLE TO EITHER PRESERVE THE NURSING HOME OR TO KIND OF
PRESERVE THE BUILDING TO MAKE SURE THAT OTHER NON-PROFIT USES ARE
AVAILABLE.
MR. JENSEN: SO IN A SITUATION WITH A POSSIBLE
CLOSURE, WHEN YOU HAVE THIS -- THIS NOTIFICATION THAT WOULD TAKE PLACE
UNDER THE TERMS OF THIS -- THIS LEGISLATION, DO YOU HAVE A CONCERN THAT
40
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
INDIVIDUALS, WHETHER LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS OR THE COMMUNITY AT-LARGE,
WHO MAY NOT HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING OF PUBLIC HEALTH LAW OR STATE
HEALTH REGULATIONS LIKE YOU AND I, IT MAY EXACERBATE PUBLIC PANIC
BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL THE REQUIREMENTS UNDER STATE LAW
WHICH WOULD BE IN PLACE IF THIS PASSED OR WHAT'S CURRENTLY IN PLACE
UNDER STATE HEALTH REGULATIONS. DO YOU HAVE A CONCERN THAT THAT COULD
CAUSE UNDUE PANIC BECAUSE OF CONFUSION AND THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE?
MR. EPSTEIN: SO, I DON'T THINK PROVIDING MORE
NOTICE TO PEOPLE ABOUT A NURSING HOME THAT MIGHT CLOSE WOULD CREATE
PANIC. IT WOULD CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE IN THE
COMMUNITY ABOUT THE RISK OF POTENTIAL CLOSURE AND GIVE THOSE PEOPLE IN
THE COMMUNITY, AS WELL AS THE RESIDENTS WHO LIVE THERE, AN OPPORTUNITY
TO SEEK ALTERNATIVE OPPORTUNITIES IF THEY KEEP THE FACILITY OPEN, TRANSFER
IT TO A NEW NON-PROFIT OR CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THAT FACILITY TO FIGURE
OUT WHAT'S CAUSING THE POTENTIAL CLOSURE AND MAYBE HELP TURN THAT
SITUATION AROUND.
MR. JENSEN: SO IN THE LEGISLATION IT SAYS THAT THIS --
THE ENTITIES THAT ARE ALERTED, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE/MAYOR, THE PRESIDING
OFFICER OF THE LEGISLATIVE BODY OR THE COMMUNITY BOARD, IF THEY BELIEVE
THAT THE CLOSURE IS BEING DONE BY -- BECAUSE OF SOMETHING OTHER THAN
THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE RESIDENTS, THEY HAVE 45 DAYS TO CONVENE A
PUBLIC HEARING TO PASS ON THEIR VIEWPOINT OR THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS TO
THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH. HOW WOULD ANY OF THOSE ENTITIES KNOW
WHETHER OR NOT IT'S BASED ON THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF RESIDENTS OR
BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL REASONS?
41
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MR. EPSTEIN: SO, THEY WOULD BE IN COMMUNICATION
WITH PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE OR RESIDE THERE, LIKE WE DO WITH OTHER
FACILITIES, LIKE WE DO WITH POTENTIAL HOSPITAL CLOSINGS OR CLOSING OF
UNITS, TO LEARN WHAT THE ISSUES ARE AND THEN MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE
EDUCATING PEOPLE AT THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT ABOUT OUR CONCERNS
THAT -- TO KEEP IT OPEN OR NOT KEEP IT OPEN. MAYBE WE WANT IT TO CLOSE
BECAUSE IT'S -- THE FACILITY NEEDS TO CLOSE OR MAYBE WE WANT TO KEEP IT
OPEN, AND THESE ARE THE REASONS WHY BECAUSE WE WILL THEN HAVE
GATHERED THE INFORMATION THAT MAYBE IS NOT BEING PROVIDED DIRECTLY TO
THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT BY THE ENTITY THAT'S TRYING TO CLOSE THE
FACILITY.
MR. JENSEN: BUT IF A FACILITY IS CLOSING BECAUSE OF
FINANCIAL INSTABILITY, WHETHER OR NOT A PUBLIC HEARING IS HELD OR A
COMMUNITY BELIEVES THAT, NO, NO THIS -- THIS NURSING HOME SHOULD STAY
OPEN, IT'S -- IT'S NOT LIKE ALL THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS ARE GONNA SAY, NO,
NO, WE'RE GONNA TO PUT UP MONEY OR CREATE A SPECIAL TAX DISTRICT TO
FUND THE FINANCIAL SHORTFALL. BECAUSE THAT'S THE FINANCIAL REALITY THAT
THE COMMUNITY WOULD HAVE NO ABILITY TO CORRECT, AND THE
RECOMMENDATIONS TO STAY OPEN WOULD BE NON-VIABLE BECAUSE OF OUR
OUTDATED REIMBURSEMENT MODEL THROUGH THE MEDICAID PROCESS, WHICH
IS WHAT CAUSES MOST OF THE FINANCIAL STRUGGLES THAT OUR NURSING HOMES,
NON-PROFIT AND FOR-PROFIT AND COUNTY-OWNED AND OPERATED, ARE
CURRENTLY FACING. SO I GUESS --
MR. EPSTEIN: I WOULD JUST SAY IN RESPONSE TO THAT,
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED DOWN BY ME, WHERE THEY -- WE FOUND OUT
42
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
AFTER THE FACT THAT THE FACILITY WAS CLOSING, THE COMMUNITY RALLIED
AROUND THE -- THE FACILITY TO TRY TO KEEP THAT NURSING HOME AROUND. WE
FOUND ANOTHER PROVIDER, MOUNT SINAI, TO OPEN UP A LONG-TERM CARE
FACILITY IN THAT SITE. THE RIBBON CUTTING FOR THAT NEW LOCATION HAPPENED
LAST YEAR. AND IT WAS REALLY -- IT WAS THE COMMUNITY'S RESPONSE TO SAY,
OKAY, WE NEED TO KEEP THIS BUILDING IN THAT -- IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD,
AND IF WE HAD KNOWN BEFORE THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WAS ACTING,
WE COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS. BUT NOW WE ARE WORKING TO RALLY BEHIND
IT TO KIND OF MAKE SURE THAT THIS CARE THAT'S NEEDED IN OUR COMMUNITY
CONTINUES TO HAPPEN.
MR. JENSEN: SO, IN THAT STORY I THINK THAT'S GREAT
THAT THE COMMUNITY CAME TOGETHER AND HELPED. BUT YOU'RE -- YOU'RE
KIND OF PROVING MY POINT IN THE FACT THAT YOUR COMMUNITY WAS ABLE TO
DO ALL THAT WITHOUT THIS LEGISLATION BECOMING LAW. SO I THINK THE
EXAMPLE THAT YOU BRING UP SHOWS THAT THE CURRENT STATE HEALTH
REGULATIONS IN PLACE ALREADY PROVIDE ENOUGH ABILITY TO EFFECT A POSSIBLE
CLOSURE, AND THAT THIS LAW IS NOT NECESSARY.
SO I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS AND FOR
SHARING YOUR STORY FROM YOUR COMMUNITY ABOUT HOW YOU WERE ABLE TO
EFFECT THAT WITHOUT A LAW BEING IN PLACE. SO THANK YOU, MR. EPSTEIN;
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT APRIL 1ST.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
43
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE
REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE
OF LEGISLATION. IF THERE ARE MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE THEY MAY DO SO AT THEIR DESKS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE
VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AND THOSE MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE IN THE
NEGATIVE CAN DO SO NOW AT THEIR DESK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. EPSTEIN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SO, RIGHT NOW IN STATE LAW THERE ARE NO PROVISIONS
THAT OVERSEE THE CLOSING OF NURSING HOMES. AND LIKE OTHER FACILITIES -- I
THINK WE TALKED ABOUT A HOSPITAL CLOSING BILL JUST YESTERDAY -- IT WOULD
REALLY REQUIRE A ROBUST COMMUNITY OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE THAT THE BEST
INTERESTS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE NEEDS OF THAT COMMUNITY ARE
TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. THIS BILL JUST MAKES SURE THAT THERE'S LEGISLATION IN
PLACE THAT REQUIRES NURSING HOMES THAT GO THROUGH A PROCESS WITH THE
STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, AND THAT THERE'S COMMUNITY INPUT IN THAT
PROCESS TO ASSURE THAT THE NEIGHBORS KNOWS WHAT'S HAPPENING AND CAN
ACT ACCORDINGLY AND CAN PROVIDE INFORMATION DIRECTLY TO THE STATE
44
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH. THIS WOULD JUST CREATE A SYSTEM AND STRUCTURE
IN PLACE THAT DOESN'T EXIST NOW. I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN
FAVOR OF THIS BILL BECAUSE I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR NEIGHBORS TO
HAVE INFLUENCE AND PREVENT THESE TRAGEDIES FROM HAPPENING IN CLOSINGS
THAT MAY BE UNNECESSARY FOR THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS.
I'M VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. BURDICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT TO
COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS BILL, AND IN THE DEBATE THAT WE
JUST HEARD HE OUTLINED THE REASONS WHY THIS CAN BE VERY HELPFUL.
BECAUSE IF THE COMMUNITY LEARNS ABOUT A POSSIBLE CLOSURE, THEY CAN
TAKE ACTION BEFORE THAT CLOSURE ACTUALLY OCCURS AND POSSIBLY FIND A
SOLUTION TO PREVENT THAT CLOSURE, ALL IN THE BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY
ITSELF. AND SO THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE PROCEDURE THAT CAN HAVE A PROFOUND
BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY WHICH THAT NURSING HOME WOULD SERVE.
I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BURDICK IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 14, CALENDAR NO. 110, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04060-A, CALENDAR
45
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
NO. 110, PAULIN, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, ARDILA, BORES, BURDICK, BURGOS,
COLTON, GALLAGHER, LAVINE, LEE, LEVENBERG, MAGNARELLI, RAGA, RIVERA,
ROZIC, SHIMSKY, SIMON, STIRPE, MCDONOUGH, FORREST, KELLES, DE LOS
SANTOS, SEAWRIGHT, DARLING. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW,
IN RELATION TO REQUIRING MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS IN PUBLIC COLLEGES AND
UNIVERSITIES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE REASONS I
HOPE TO BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN IN A FEW MINUTES. BUT THOSE WHO FIND MY
EXPLANATION UNCONVINCING SHOULD VOTE YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE
VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE -- THOSE MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE IN
THE NEGATIVE CAN DO SO NOW.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU BOTH.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. THIS
BILL IS VERY SIMPLE. IT PROVIDES THAT WE, BY LAW, WOULD MANDATE THAT ALL
46
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES PROVIDE MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS FOR FREE. I
HAVE THREE DAUGHTERS. OUR HOUSEHOLD COVERED THEIR COSTS OF PERSONAL
CARE PRODUCTS, BUT ONCE THEY WENT TO COLLEGE WE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME
FOR THEM TO PICK UP THE COST OF THEIR OWN PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS. SO
THE QUESTION IS AT WHAT POINT DO WE EXPECT COLLEGE STUDENTS TO BE
RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN COST OF PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS? THIS BILL
SAYS NOT UNTIL YOU GRADUATE FROM COLLEGE. AND IN THE MEANTIME, THIS
BILL WOULD REQUIRE EVERY SINGLE RESIDENT IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK THAT
PAYS TAXES TO PAY SO THAT PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS ARE, QUOTE, AT YOUR
EXPENSE RATHER THAN AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PERSON WHO'S IN COLLEGE WHO
DOESN'T WANT TO PAY FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS. THERE COMES
A TIME WHEN WE BECOME YOUNG ADULTS AND ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY
FOR PAYING FOR OUR OWN PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS, AND I THINK COLLEGE IS A
GOOD TIME TO START THAT PROCESS AND STOP ASKING THE TAXPAYERS TO PAY FOR
EVERYTHING.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IS IN THE
NEGATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 19, CALENDAR NO. 166, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05856, CALENDAR NO.
166, GLICK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW, IN
RELATION TO RENEWALS OF LICENSES AND PERMITS.
47
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, AN
EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.
MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE PURPOSE
OF THE BILL IS TO REQUIRE THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY TO CREATE A
STANDARDIZED FORM FOR COMMENT BY MUNICIPALITIES OR COMMUNITY
BOARDS ON RENEWALS OF LICENSES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: SURE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK YIELDS.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. GLICK. WHY DO WE
NEED A STANDARD FORM?
MS. GLICK: WELL, AT LEAST IN -- THERE ARE 52 DIFFERENT
COMMUNITY BOARDS IN NEW YORK CITY, THERE ARE NUMEROUS
MUNICIPALITIES ACROSS THE STATE. WHEN THERE IS GOING TO BE A RENEWAL
OF A LIQUOR LICENSE, IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO WEIGH IN. WE THINK THAT IT
WOULD BE APPROPRIATE AND EASIER IF EVERYONE WAS USING A STANDARD FORM
SO THAT THE INFORMATION THAT THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY WOULD TAKE INTO
CONSIDERATION WOULD BE EASIER FOR THEM TO REVIEW BECAUSE THEY ARE, IN
FACT, OBLIGATED TO REVIEW THAT INFORMATION IF THERE WAS, IN FACT, A
STANDARD FORM.
MR. GOODELL: WAS THIS THEN REQUESTED BY THE
48
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY?
MS. GLICK: NO, IT WAS NOT. IT WAS A MATTER OF THE
FACT THAT IN MY AREA I HAVE THREE, NOW FOUR COMMUNITY BOARDS AND THEY
DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY. AND IT SEEMED -- AND IN ONE COMMUNITY BOARD I
THINK -- WELL, IN MY DISTRICT I THINK I HAVE 1,000 LICENSED PREMISES.
THAT IS JUST ON-PREMISE LICENSE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LIQUOR
STORES, THE BODEGAS AND THE LIKE WHERE ONE CAN PURCHASE FOR OFF-
PREMISE. AND IT IS A COMPACT, CONGESTED AREA, AND SO THERE ARE
DIFFERENCES IN THE WAY IN WHICH COMMUNITY BOARD 1 OR 2 MIGHT
COLLATE THEIR INFORMATION THAN BOARD 3. AND I ASSUME THAT WHEN YOU
GET THE 52 COMMUNITY BOARDS AND PERHAPS THE NUMEROUS MUNICIPALITIES
AROUND THE STATE THAT PEOPLE ARE DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY. THE STATE
LIQUOR AUTHORITY HAS A GREAT DEAL OF WORK TO DO, AND IT SEEMS THAT IT
WOULD BE EASIER FOR DATA COLLECTION AND CERTAINLY EASIER FOR THEM IF THEY
WERE SIMPLY REVIEWING STANDARDIZED FORMS THAN WHATEVER IS PRESENTED
TO THEM BY DIFFERENT ENTITIES BASED ON THOSE INDIVIDUAL BOARDS OR
MUNICIPALITIES THINKING, THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO DO IT OR, THAT'S THE BEST
WAY TO DO IT.
MR. GOODELL: HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING FROM
YOUR COMMUNITY BOARDS OR OTHERS THAT EXPRESSED CONCERN THAT THE
LIQUOR AUTHORITY WAS NOT READING AND RESPONDING TO THEIR COMMENTS?
MS. GLICK: OH YEAH. YES.
MR. GOODELL: SO ISN'T THAT A PROBLEM WITH THE
LIQUOR BOARD [SIC]?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT IT MAY BE THAT -- WELL,
49
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
I -- LET ME TAKE A HALF-STEP BACK. I THINK THAT THERE ARE A VARIETY OF
CONCERNS WITH THE WAY IN WHICH THE BOARD MAY OPERATE BECAUSE THERE
ARE A GREAT MANY AND INCREASING NUMBERS OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR LIQUOR
LICENSES TO BE DISSEMINATED. AND SO IT SEEMS AS THOUGH ONE OF THE
WAYS THAT WE COULD ENSURE THAT THE LIQUOR AUTHORITY WAS OPERATING
MORE EFFICIENTLY AND, THEREFORE, MAYBE BEING MORE RESPONSIVE TO
COMMUNITY CONCERNS WOULD BE TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR EVERYBODY TO BE
PROVIDING THEIR INFORMATION AND CONCERNS OR SUPPORT, BECAUSE MANY --
MANY OF THE LICENSES ARE SUPPORTED. BUT IT WOULD MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE
BOARD TO BE ABLE TO CHECK THINGS OFF IF EVERYTHING WAS PROVIDED TO
THEM IN THE SAME FORMAT.
MR. GOODELL: AS YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, UNDER THE
-- UNDER THE LIQUOR AUTHORITY LAW [SIC] THERE'S ALREADY PUBLISHED
NOTICE, RIGHT, OF THESE RENEWALS AND RESIDENTS ARE ENCOURAGED BY THE
PUBLIC NOTICE TO FILE COMMENTS. WOULD IT BE YOUR EXPECTATION THAT IF
PUBLIC COMMENTS CAME IN, AND SOMETIMES THEY'RE SENT DIRECTLY TO THE
LIQUOR BOARD [SIC], WOULD IT BE YOUR EXPECTATION THAT THE LIQUOR BOARD
[SIC] WOULD READ AND CONSIDER THOSE COMMENTS EVEN IF THEY WERE NOT
ON THIS PARTICULAR FORM?
MS. GLICK: THE LIQUOR AUTHORITY IS OBLIGATED TO
TAKE INFORMATION FROM THE PUBLIC, BUT THIS IS THE STANDARDIZED FORM THAT
APPLICANTS FOR RENEWALS HAVE TO PROVIDE. SO IT MAKES SENSE, I THINK,
THAT THERE BE A STANDARDIZED FORM FOR MUNICIPALITIES AND COMMUNITY
BOARDS. AND OF COURSE I'M MOST FAMILIAR WITH THE OPERATION OF
COMMUNITY BOARDS IN MY DISTRICT AND NEAR MY DISTRICT WHERE WE DO
50
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
HAVE, AS I SAID, ON ANY GIVEN TIME, THE COMMUNITY BOARD COULD BE
REVIEWING DOZENS OF THESE RENEWALS AND WE HAVE A FAIRLY ACTIVE
COMMUNITY. AND SO DURING THE GENERAL COMMENT PERIOD AND AT -- AT
COMMITTEE MEETINGS WHICH THEN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE FULL
BOARD, LOTS OF PEOPLE SHOW UP BECAUSE THEY ARE WELL AWARE OF THE FACT
THAT THERE IS AN APPLICATION PENDING. SO THIS IS JUST AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE
THE WORK OF THE BOARD MORE EFFICIENT AND FOR THE COMMUNITY BOARDS TO
LIKEWISE -- WHICH ARE UNPAID, VOLUNTEER PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN
APPOINTED AND TAKE THIS WORK SERIOUSLY -- FOR THEM ALL TO BE ON THE
SAME PAGE, LOOKING AT THE WAY IN WHICH THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY,
BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE CREATING THE FORM, WOULD LIKE TO RECEIVE THE
INFORMATION.
MR. GOODELL: NOW, AS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE
MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF -- IN OUR STATUTE WHERE THE LEGISLATURE
CREATES A FORM. FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE ELECTION LAW THERE'S A CERTAIN
FORM YOU HAVE TO USE FOR PETITIONS, RIGHT, AND CERTAIN FORMS FOR
EXCEPTIONS AND DECLINATION. EVEN IN THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY ACT
THERE ARE STATUTORY-SPECIFIED FORMS, STATUTORY-SPECIFIED NOTICES. BUT
THIS BILL DOESN'T ACTUALLY SPECIFY ANY PARTICULAR FORM AT ALL, IT JUST
DELEGATES THAT RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LIQUOR AUTHORITY; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. GLICK: YES.
MR. GOODELL: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
YOUR COMMENTS. I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, MS. GLICK.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON THE BILL.
51
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MR. GOODELL: THIS IS AN INTERESTING BILL BECAUSE
IT DOESN'T JUST AUTHORIZE THE LIQUOR AUTHORITY TO CREATE A STANDARDIZED
RESPONSE FORM, IT MANDATES THAT NOT ONLY THE LIQUOR AUTHORITY CREATE
THE STANDARDIZED FORM, BUT THAT EVERY MUNICIPALITY ACROSS THE ENTIRE
STATE OF NEW YORK USE THE SAME STATE-MANDATED FORM IN MAKING
COMMENTS TO THE LIQUOR AUTHORITY. MY DISTRICT IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT
THAN MANHATTAN. I HAVE 1,000 SQUARE MILES, NOT 1,000 BARS. ON THE
OTHER HAND, I HAVE 26 WINERIES WHICH WE'D LOVE TO SEND ALL OF OUR WINE
TO THE 1,000 BARS IN MY COLLEAGUE'S DISTRICT. I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT
MAYBE A STATEWIDE STANDARDIZED FORM THAT'S MANDATED ON LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS IS NOT THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO MOVE FORWARD, AND THAT
INSTEAD WE WOULD -- SHOULD AND CAN AND SHOULD ENCOURAGE THE STATE
LIQUOR AUTHORITY TO CONSIDER ALL THE COMMENTS THAT COME IN,
REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY'RE ON ANY STANDARDIZED FORM, AND MAKE A
THOUGHTFUL, CAREFUL DECISION. SO RATHER THAN ADD MORE BUREAUCRATIC
HURDLES AND MORE FORMS, I THINK WE'RE BETTER OFF TO ENCOURAGE THE
LIQUOR AUTHORITY TO CONSIDER ALL COMMENTS REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY
COME IN, AND MAKE IT A THOUGHTFUL AND EFFICIENT DETERMINATION.
I DO APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE TO HELP THE
LIQUOR AUTHORITY BE MORE EFFICIENT. IT'S A DESIRE I'M SURE WE BOTH
SHARE, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT A STATEWIDE MANDATED FORM IS THE RIGHT
APPROACH. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH
52
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS MANDATE, ALTHOUGH YOU MAY
HAVE COLLEAGUES, MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES THAT WANT TO SUPPORT IT.
AND SO IF SO, THEY SHOULD VOTE YES HERE ON THE FLOOR OF THE ASSEMBLY.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THANK YOU.
MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE
MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE WHO
WISH TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE CAN DO SO AT THIS TIME.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. LET ME JUST
SAY THAT THIS IS -- IT IS THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY WHICH RECEIVES THE
INFORMATION AND HAS WORKED WITH COMMUNITY BOARDS AND
MUNICIPALITIES, AND I BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO THINK
THROUGH THE DIFFERENCES IN THOSE DIFFERENT ENTITIES AND COULD CREATE A
FORM THAT WOULD, FOR THEM, MAKE THEIR WORK EASIER AND MORE EFFICIENT.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE WOULD NOT WANT A STATE AGENCY TO REQUEST
53
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THAT THE INFORMATION PRESENTED TO THEM COME IN IN A FORM THAT IS EASIEST
FOR THEM TO PROCESS. BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, NOTHING IN THE BILL FORBIDS
ANYONE FROM MAKING A COMMENT ON A -- IN A DIFFERENT FORMAT. SO IF AN
INDIVIDUAL DOESN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE FORM AND WISHES TO COMMUNICATE
WITH THE BOARD, THEY CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT.
AND WITH THAT, I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE, SUPPORTING EFFICIENCY IN GOVERNMENT. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MS. GLICK IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. NOVAKHOV TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. NOVAKHOV: SO, IT - IT -- TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. IT MIGHT SEEM LIKE -- LIKE A GOOD BILL, BUT I
REMEMBER THE SITUATION IN MY DISTRICT WITH MY CONSTITUENT WHO WAS
WAITING FOR HIS LIQUOR LICENSE FOR NINE MONTHS, FOR NINE MONTHS, PAYING
THE RENT, PAYING ALMOST $20,000 A MONTH WITHOUT HAVING AN ABILITY OF
SELLING LIQUOR IN HIS RESTAURANT. AT THE SAME TIME, THE SAME OWNER HAD
THE LIQUOR LICENSE WITH HIS PREVIOUS RESTAURANT FOR TEN YEARS. AND I
BELIEVE, I'M AFRAID, THAT THIS BILL WILL CREATE MORE BUREAUCRACY. THIS
BILL WILL DELAY BECAUSE EVERYTHING, EVERY PIECE OF PAPER, EVERY
DOCUMENTATION THAT WE SEND TO THE LIQUOR AUTHORITY, IT TAKES MONTHS
FOR THEM TO RESPOND OF THAT. AND I'M AFRAID THAT THIS LEGISLATION MIGHT
CREATE EVEN MORE BUREAUCRACY AND WILL DELAY THE LIQUOR AUTHORITY TO
ISSUE LICENSES TO BARS AND RESTAURANTS, AND THIS IS WHY I CANNOT SUPPORT
THIS BILL. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. NOVAKHOV IN
54
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THE NEGATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR, FOR ALLOWING ME TO
MAKE AN INTRODUCTION. WE HAVE WITH US AS A SPECIAL GUEST OF
ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN, THERESA GAFFNEY, WHO IS THE VILLAGE
ADMINISTRATOR OF EAST ROCKAWAY, AND WITH HER IS HER SON JOHN
GAFFNEY. AND AS YOU KNOW, OF COURSE THE VILLAGE OF EAST ROCKAWAY IS
A GREAT MUNICIPALITY ON LONG ISLAND.
IF YOU WOULD PLEASE EXTEND THE CORDIALITIES OF OUR
HOUSE TO THERESA GAFFNEY AND HER SON JOHN GAFFNEY ON BEHALF OF OUR
COLLEAGUE ARI BROWN.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: CERTAINLY. ON
BEHALF OF MR. GOODELL, MR. BROWN, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS,
WE WELCOME YOU TO THIS CHAMBER. WE EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF
THE FLOOR. WE HOPE THAT YOU HAVE ENJOYED TODAY'S PROCEEDINGS, AND WE
LOOK FORWARD TO WELCOMING YOU BACK AT ANOTHER TIME. THANK YOU SO
MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.
(APPLAUSE)
PAGE 24, CALENDAR NO. 306, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03502, CALENDAR NO.
306, VANEL, CRUZ. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW AND THE
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN RELATION TO DIRECTING THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
55
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
STATE POLICE TO DEVELOP AND INSTITUTE CHILD-SENSITIVE ARREST POLICIES AND
PROCEDURES FOR INSTANCES WHERE POLICE ARE ARRESTING AN INDIVIDUAL WHO
IS A PARENT, GUARDIAN OR OTHER PERSON LEGALLY CHARGED WITH THE CARE OR
CUSTODY OF A CHILD.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY
MR. VANEL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
MR. VANEL, AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. VANEL: THIS IS A BILL THAT AMENDS THE
EXECUTIVE LAW AND THE CRIMINAL LAW [SIC] IN RELATIONS TO DIRECTING THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE TO DEVELOP AND INSTITUTE CHILD-SENSITIVE
ARREST POLICIES AND PROCEDURES FOR INSTANCES WHERE THE POLICE ARE
ARRESTING AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS A PARENT OR GUARDIAN OR OTHER PERSONS
LEGALLY CHARGED WITH THE CARE OR CUSTODY OF A CHILD.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON THE BILL, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE BILL SPONSOR,
MR. VANEL, IS REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO A LONG, SPIRITED DEBATE -- OR NOT
-- AND SO AT THE RISK OF OFFENDING HIM AND NOT GIVING HIM AN
OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW UP, I'D LIKE TO JUST SPEAK ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON THE BILL, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: SO THIS BILL, AS -- AS OUR COLLEAGUE
MENTIONED, REQUIRES BOTH THE STATE POLICE AS WELL AS LOCAL POLICE TO
DEVELOP AND IMPLEMENT WHAT ARE KNOWN AS CHILD-SENSITIVE ARRESTS.
56
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
AND I CERTAINLY APPLAUD THE OBJECTIVE OF HAVING CHILD-SENSITIVE ARRESTS.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT NO ARREST OF A PARENT IS GOOD FOR THE CHILD. IF WE'RE
REALLY SENSITIVE ABOUT PROTECTING CHILDREN, WE SHOULD REFRAIN FROM
DOING ACTIVITIES THAT WILL RESULT IN THE ARREST OF THE PARENT AND THE
INCARCERATION OF THE PARENT. AND THERE'S JUST NO WAY AROUND IT. IF -- IF
MOM OR DAD IS SENT TO STATE PRISON, IT'S BAD NEWS FOR THE KIDS, AND THE
DATA IS OVERWHELMING, IT'S BAD NEWS FOR THE KIDS. THE PROBLEM IS THAT
WHILE THIS BILL IS CERTAINLY WELL-INTENDED AND CERTAINLY OFFERED IN THE
RIGHT SPIRIT, IT CREATES EXTRAORDINARY CHALLENGES FOR LOCAL LAW
ENFORCEMENT ACROSS THIS STATE. BECAUSE IT REQUIRES THEM, WHEN THEY'RE
ARRESTING A PARENT, TO INQUIRE WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE ANY KIDS UNDER
THE AGE OF 18, MAKE ARRANGEMENTS FOR THEIR CARE. INCLUDING MAKING
PHONE CALLS TO THOSE WHO MIGHT BE AVAILABLE, AND OTHERWISE REALLY
DEALING LIKE SOCIAL WORKERS.
NOW, IMAGINE YOU STOP A PARENT FOR DWI. YOU DO A
ROADSIDE SOBRIETY TEST AND THEY BLOW THREE TIMES HIGHER THAN THE
MAXIMUM. YOU THEN WAIT ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD WHILE YOU ARRANGE
FOR CHILDCARE OR YOU HAVE AN ARREST WARRANT. YOU ARREST THEIR PARENTS
AND THEIR -- THEIR HOUSE IS FILLED WITH GUNS, MONEY AND DRUGS. BUT EVEN
MORE SERIOUS, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO STOP. YOU CAN'T BRING THE PARENT
INTO CUSTODY, YOU CAN'T SECURE THEM, YOU CAN'T TAKE THEM TO THE STATION
HOUSE FOR QUESTIONING UNTIL YOU MAKE CHILDCARE ARRANGEMENTS. IT GETS
EVEN MORE DIFFICULT IN THE RURAL SECTIONS OF THE COUNTIES AND WITH A LOT
OF THE LOCAL POLICE OFFICERS WHO HAVE JUST ONE PERSON IN A CAR. A LOT OF
OUR MUNICIPALITIES DO NOT HAVE TWO PEOPLE IN A PATROL CAR. AND SO
57
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
WHEN THEY MAKE AN ARREST, THEY NEED TO DEAL WITH THE INMATE OR THE
ARRESTEE OR THE DEFENDANT, AND THEY NEED TO DEAL WITH IT RIGHT THEN AND
THERE.
AND SO WHILE I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE OBJECTIVES OF
MY COLLEAGUE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT THOUGHTFULNESS, THIS IS A
HUGE UNFUNDED MANDATE ON LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT WHICH CREATES VERY
DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES TO IMPLEMENT. AND FOR THAT REASON,
WHILE I APPRECIATE THE CONCERN OF MY COLLEAGUE, I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS
PARTICULAR BILL BECAUSE OF ITS IMPACT ON LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE
COSTS AND DIFFICULTIES IT WOULD IMPOSE.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THANK YOU, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. ANGELINO.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER AND MR.
SLATER. WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. VANEL, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MR. VANEL: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU. WAS THERE SOME SORT
OF INCIDENT THAT PRECIPITATED THIS LEGISLATION?
MR. VANEL: WELL, ACTUALLY, YES. IF I COULD TAKE
SOME TIME TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THERE WAS A NATIONAL STUDY THAT
58
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ESTIMATED OF PARENTS THAT WERE ARRESTED, 67 PERCENT WERE HANDCUFFED IN
FRONT OF THEIR CHILDREN, 27 PERCENT WERE REPORTED -- REPORTEDLY HAD
WEAPONS DRAWN IN FRONT OF THEIR CHILDREN, 4.3 -- 4.3 WERE REPORTED TO
HAVE A PHYSICAL STRUGGLE IN FRONT OF CHILDREN. FURTHERMORE, 3.2 WERE
REPORTED TO HAVE SEEN THEIR PARENTS PEPPER SPRAYED IN FRONT -- IN FRONT
OF THEIR CHILDREN. A STUDY ALSO FOUND THAT CHILDREN WHO WITNESS ARRESTS
OF SOMEONE IN THEIR HOUSEHOLD HAD A -- OR THAT WERE RECENTLY ARRESTED
WERE 73 -- 73 PERCENT MORE LIKELY TO HAVE AN ELEVATED POST-TRAUMATIC
STRESS SYMPTOMS THAN CHILDREN WHO DID NOT HAVE THAT ARRESTED PARENT OR
WITNESSED THAT IN FRONT OF THEM.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU. AND THIS LEGISLATION
IF PASSED AND SIGNED INTO LAW, ANY OF THOSE THINGS YOU MENTIONED,
THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS LEGISLATION.
MR. VANEL: WHAT THIS LEGISLATION DOES, IT -- IT
ALLOWS FOR THE SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE, IN COORDINATION WITH THE
OCFS AND IN COORDINATION WITH THE CRIMINAL SERVICES DIVISION, THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICE DIVISION, TO COME UP WITH -- WITH PROTOCOLS
AND PROCESSES FOR THE STATE POLICE.
MR. ANGELINO: AND WHEN THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
THE STATE POLICE AND HIS STAFF COME UP WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON
HOW TO AVOID SOME OF THESE SITUATIONS THAT YOU MENTIONED, YOU'RE
GOING TO ACCEPT THAT AND WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK AND
MODIFY WHAT -- WHAT THE OFFICERS CAN DO?
MR. VANEL: WE -- THAT'S NOT IN THE BILL. THAT --
THAT'S IS NOT IN THE BILL. SO THEY'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH THESE
59
NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
PROCESSES.
MR. ANGELINO: RIGHT. AND YOU -- AND YOU'RE
GONNA TO ACCEPT THAT?
(PAUSE)
MR. VANEL: YES, WE'RE MAKING -- WE'RE MAKING
THEM DIRECT THEIR -- THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE -- TO THE STATE POLICE,
YES.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. AND -- AND I HEARD OUR
FLOOR LEADER MENTION THIS -- THIS ISN'T JUST THE STATE POLICE, IT'S ALL LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES?
MR. VANEL: THIS IS LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES
UNDER THE STATE -- UNDER STATE AUSPICES.
MR. ANGELINO: UNDER THE WHAT?
MR. VANEL: UNDER THE STATE (INAUDIBLE) --
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. SO, ALL -- ALL LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES IN NEW YORK. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON THE BILL, MR.
ANGELINO.
MR. ANGELINO: AS THE FLOOR LEADER MENTIONED, I
HAPPEN TO BE ONE OF THOSE OFFICERS WHO WORKS SOLO IN A CAR. MY
NEAREST BACKUP SOMETIMES IS 12 MILES AWAY, SOMETIMES THEY'RE A
COUPLE OF BLOCKS AWAY. BUT AT THE TIME OF AN ARREST, OFFICERS, MYSELF
INCLUDED AND MANY OFFICERS, ARE ALWAYS COGNIZANT OF THE -- OF CHILDREN
BEING SOMEHOW HARMED BY WHAT WE'RE DOING. MANY TIMES WE WALK
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PEOPLE OUT OF THE BUILDING, WE'LL WALK THEM TO THE CAR AND THEN SECURE
THEM BETTER THAN WE WOULD HAVE IF THERE WEREN'T CHILDREN PRESENT.
OFFICERS ARE PRETTY MUCH COGNIZANT OF THIS ALL THE TIME. BUT THERE'S SO
MANY EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES. I HOPE THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE
STATE POLICE IS ON HIS GAME WHEN THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE WE CAN'T
MANDATE THIS TO HAPPEN EVERY TIME, ALL THE TIME. THERE'S POLICE
OFFICERS IN WRESTLING MATCHES IN LIVING ROOMS DAILY AND, YOU KNOW, WE
CAN'T BE -- PUT THE SAFETY OF OURSELVES AND OTHERS PRESENT IN JEOPARDY
WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS, YOU KNOW, RESISTING ARREST. I THINK
MOST OFFICERS ARE PRETTY -- PRETTY WELL COGNIZANT. I -- I WOULD LOOK
FORWARD TO TRAINING ON THIS AND HAVING OFFICERS TAUGHT TO BE COGNIZANT
OF IT, BUT I THINK THAT'S ALREADY IN THE DCJS BASIC COURSE FOR POLICE
OFFICERS. I -- I DO BELIEVE THIS IS JUST ONE MORE THING THAT'S GOING TO
MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT. NOT EVERY AGENCY IS NYPD. YOU KNOW,
LUCKILY, I'VE ONLY HAD TO WORK A FEW SUNDAYS THIS PAST MONTH, BUT THIS
MONTH COMING I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF WEEKENDS AND THINGS ARE USUALLY A
LITTLE MORE DICEY ON WEEKENDS. AND, YOU KNOW, IF I -- IF I CAN GET
SOME BODY CAM FOOTAGE IF I HAPPENED TO MAKE AN ARREST, YOU KNOW, I
WOULD LIKE TO SHOW IT TO THE SPONSOR. AND IF THERE'S CHILDREN PRESENT,
THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE TAKE GREAT PAINS AND EFFORT, YOU
KNOW, NOT TO MAKE IT A TRAUMATIZING EXPERIENCE. BUT MOST OF THE
SITUATIONS THAT OFFICERS GET IN, THEY WANT TO TAKE THE EASIEST PATH, AND IT
IS THE PERSON BEING ARRESTED WHO ULTIMATELY CHOOSES AND CHANGES THAT
PATH, AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO BE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH SOMETHING LIKE
THIS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
SO I LOOK FORWARD TO ANY OTHER DEBATE THAT MAY
HAPPEN, AND I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HIS ANSWERS. THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. MCGOWAN.
MR. MCGOWAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. VANEL, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MR. VANEL: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. MCGOWAN: THANK YOU, SIR. I KNOW YOU
TALKED ABOUT A STUDY; I BELIEVE YOU SAID IT WAS A NATIONAL STUDY THAT LED
TO CREATING THIS BILL?
MR. VANEL: YES.
MR. MCGOWAN: CAN YOU DESCRIBE A -- A SCENARIO,
JUST -- JUST AS AN EXAMPLE WHERE THIS WOULD COME INTO PLAY?
MR. VANEL: WELL, WE FIND THAT -- AGAIN, WHEN IN
THESE SITUATIONS, MANY TIMES WE FIND THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN IMAGINE
A PARENT, YOU KNOW, ME WALKING WITH MY SON OR MY CHILD IF I HAD A
CHILD AND, YOU KNOW, I GET ARRESTED, WRONG GUY, WRONG PERSON AND, YOU
KNOW, AND THE POLICE GET OVERLY AGGRESSIVE WHILE I HAVE A, YOU KNOW, A
CHILD WITH ME. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, IF -- IF THE POLICE
CAN TAKE -- AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHY WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF POLICE [SIC] OR, YOU KNOW, WOULD TALK -- WOULD
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
FIGURE OUT THE PROPER PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES TO TRY TO DEAL IN THAT
TYPE OF SITUATION. WE COULD IMAGINE SITUATIONS WHERE IF SOMEONE GOT
ARRESTED WITHOUT THE PERSON -- WITHOUT A CHILD IN -- YOU KNOW, WITHOUT
THE CHILD IN FRONT OF THEM OR WHAT HAVE YOU AND IF THEY WERE THE SOLE
CUSTODIAN OF THE CHILD, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE -- THAT THAT WOULD BE
INTERESTING -- THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR US TO KNOW HOW TO -- YOU
KNOW, IF WE NEED TO PROVIDE SERVICES OR WHAT HAVE YOU TO CARE FOR THE
CHILD OR IF THAT'S -- IF THAT'S A SITUATION THAT -- THAT -- YOU KNOW, TO BE
ABLE TO BE COGNIZANT OF.
MR. MCGOWAN: SO UNDERSTANDING -- I THINK ONE OF
MY COLLEAGUES MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, ANY ARRESTS WOULD BE A
TRAUMATIZING EVENT, AND YOU'RE DESCRIBING SOMEBODY WRONG PLACE OR
WRONG TIME. BUT IT COULD BE THE RIGHT PERSON CHARGED WITH THE RIGHT
CRIME. BUT PUTTING SIDE THAT JUST GENERALLY ANY ARREST COULD BE A
TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE TO THE PERSON BEING ARRESTED, TO ANY WITNESSES IN
THE VICINITY, CERTAINLY A CHILD, IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE STUDY OR ANYTHING
THAT HAS BROUGHT ABOUT THE INTRODUCTION OF THIS LEGISLATION TO SAY THAT
POLICE IN NEW YORK HAVE FAILED TO LOOK OUT FOR KIDS OR -- OR PROTECT
CHILDREN IN THE SCENARIO WHERE THEY ARE MAKING AN ARREST OF AN ADULT OR
A PARENT?
MR. VANEL: YES. SO THIS -- LET'S KEEP IN MIND THAT
THIS SITUATION IS DIFFICULT. WE'RE DEALING WITH A DIFFICULT SITUATION
WHERE THESE ARRESTS AFFECT NOT JUST THE PERSON BEING ARRESTED, BUT
FAMILIES. AND THERE ARE RIPPLE EFFECTS. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
ARE DEALING WITH, JUST LIKE THIS BILL TALKS ABOUT, MAKING SURE THAT THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
STATE POLICE SUPERINTENDENT -- THE STATE -- THE SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE
POLICE, IN CONJUNCTION WITH OCFS AND IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE DIVISION, YOU KNOW, COME UP WITH THE PROPER
POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. I CAN IMAGINE IT CAN BE DIFFERENT IN DIFFERENT
REGIONS, IN DIFFERENT -- DIFFERENT -- DIFFERENT SIDES, STATE DEPARTMENTS OR
WHAT HAVE YOU. AND THERE ARE -- THIS IS -- CAN BE VERY STATE -- VERY FACT
SPECIFIC. BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IN CERTAIN SCENARIOS THAT WE
KEEP IN MIND THAT THERE MAY BE A CHILD OR CHILDREN THAT ARE BEING
AFFECTED.
MR. MCGOWAN: DOES THIS BILL CONTEMPLATE RULES
OR REGULATIONS THAT WOULD CALL FOR -- YOU KNOW, WHAT ABOUT AN EXIGENCY
OR AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WHERE AN ARREST HAS TO BE MADE? AND
PERHAPS CERTAIN PROTOCOL IN AN IDEAL SCENARIO WHEN EVERYONE'S
COOPERATIVE AND, YOU KNOW, THE SUN IS SHINING AND THINGS ARE GREAT,
RIGHT, IT GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN. BUT WHAT ABOUT AN EXIGENCY? WHAT
ABOUT WHEN A CHILD IS -- IS -- IS A VICTIM OF A CRIME OR YOU HAVE A -- A
VEHICLE STOP WHERE A PARENT IS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OR YOU HAVE A
WEAPON INVOLVED OR THE SAFETY OF THE OFFICER OR THE SURROUNDING
INDIVIDUALS, INCLUDING A CHILD, IS -- IS COMPROMISED OR THREATENED?
DOES THIS BILL TALK ABOUT THE CREATION OF EXCEPTIONS WHERE PERHAPS THE
PERFECT SCENARIO CANNOT BE FOLLOWED AND THE POLICE WILL HAVE TO TAKE
OTHER ACTION TO SECURE THE SAFETY OF EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE ARREST?
MR. VANEL: AS I SAID, THIS IS REALLY COMPLICATED.
THIS BILL DOESN'T STATE WHAT THE COPS SHOULD -- WHAT THE POLICE SHOULD
DO IN A SITUATION OR NOT. THIS TALKS ABOUT THE SUPERINTENDENT COMING
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
UP WITH THE PROCESSES IN ORDER TO DO SO, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE TWO
OTHER STATE AGENCIES BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY CONTINGENTS.
MR. MCGOWAN: SO THAT'S MY QUESTION. YOU'RE
PROPOSING THIS, I WOULD ASSUME FROM YOUR ANSWERS, SAYING THAT WE
NEED SOMETHING IN PLACE.
MR. VANEL: YES.
MR. MCGOWAN: WHAT -- CAN YOU IDENTIFY THE
FAILURE OR ANY FAILURE BY ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY IN A SCENARIO
WHERE THERE'S AN ARREST AND WE --WE NEED SOMETHING ELSE? WHAT ARE
WE MISSING UNDER THE LAW RIGHT NOW?
MR. VANEL: YES, I'VE IDENTIFIED THE STUDIES OF
SAYING THAT WHEN WE DON'T HAVE -- WHEN IT'S -- WHEN IT'S DONE WRONG
THE CHILDREN ARE ADVERSELY AFFECTED PSYCHOLOGICALLY, THEY'RE ADVERSELY
AFFECTED EMOTIONALLY. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS PART OF THE
TRAINING. JUST LIKE WE HAVE TRAINING ON A WHOLE HOST OF -- HOST OF
DIFFERENT POINTS WHEN IT COMES TO THE POLICE PROCESSES, THIS IS ANOTHER
ONE THAT -- THAT SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO UNDERSTANDABLY, AGAIN,
THE POINT THAT ANY ARREST CAN BE TRAUMATIC TO -- TO A WITNESS OR A CHILD --
MR. VANEL: THAT'S RIGHT, YES.
MR. MCGOWAN: YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT -- IS THIS A
NATIONAL STUDY THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING? YOU'RE SAYING STUDIES. I'M
LOOKING FOR EXAMPLES IN NEW YORK THAT CALLS FOR NEEDING THIS LAW TO BE
PASSED OTHER THAN -- IS THERE ANYTHING OTHER THAN A NATIONAL STUDY THAT
YOU'VE CITED TO THIS POINT?
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MR. VANEL: WE'VE -- WE'VE CITED A NUMBER OF
STUDIES. LET ME SEE IF THERE WERE....
(PAUSE)
SO, THIS IS NOT -- YEAH, THIS IS NOT IN RESPONSE TO
ANYTHING THAT NEW YORK STATE DID WRONG IN SPECIFIC, BUT THIS IS -- THIS
IS MAKING SURE THAT THIS WOULD BE A STATEWIDE PROCEDURE FOR CHILD-
SENSITIVE ARREST POLICIES.
MR. MCGOWAN: DO YOU KNOW IF THERE ARE ALREADY
IN PLACE PROCEDURES AND POLICIES EITHER AT THE STATE LEVEL OR -- OR A LOCAL
MUNICIPALITY THAT THEY ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE THAT -- THAT ADDRESS THE
CONCERNS THAT YOU'VE IDENTIFIED?
MR. VANEL: THERE'S NO UNIFORM STATEWIDE POLICY
-- CHILD-SENSITIVE ARREST POLICIES.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY, NO UNIFORM STATEWIDE
POLICY. BUT I THINK YOU'VE IDENTIFIED THAT THE COMPLICATED NATURE OF
THIS, RIGHT? IT'S -- IT'S FACT-SPECIFIC, IT'S CASE-SPECIFIC. BUT AS YOU STAND
HERE TODAY WITH THIS BILL, ARE THERE -- YOU SAY THERE'S NO UNIFORM
STANDARD, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE'S NO STANDARD AND THAT THERE
AREN'T PROCEDURES OR POLICIES IN PLACE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? I MEAN, DO
YOU KNOW IF -- IF ANY AGENCY, EITHER AT THE STATE LEVEL, LOCAL LEVEL, IS
MISSING OR DOESN'T HAVE A POLICY TO ADDRESS THESE VERY CONCERNS THAT
YOU'VE IDENTIFIED?
MR. VANEL: AGAIN, THIS BILL WILL -- WILL -- AND IF
ENACTED WILL TELL THE SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE -- OF STATE POLICE TO
BE ABLE TO ENACT POLICIES ACROSS THE STATE WITH -- IN CONJUNCTION WITH
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THE TWO AGENCIES THAT WE -- WE ALREADY -- WE ALREADY MENTIONED.
MR. MCGOWAN: SO IN OTHER WORDS, IS THIS BILL
ENABLING POLICIES AND PROCEDURES?
MR. VANEL: WELL, THEY'RE NOT IN -- IN PLACE YET,
RIGHT? SO THIS BILL WOULD -- THIS BILL, AS STATED, WILL DIRECT THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE TO DEVELOP AND INSTITUTE THESE
PROCEDURES. SO IT -- IT WOULD ENABLE THEM TO DEVELOP AND INSTITUTE
THESE PROCEDURES.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. THANK YOU, SIR. I
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON THE BILL.
MR. MCGOWAN: SO, I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S
COMMENTS AND RESPONSES TO MY QUESTIONS, AND CERTAINLY AS I THINK HAS
BEEN STATED, THIS IS A -- A LAUDABLE GOAL TO PROTECT CHILDREN, RIGHT, AS
BEST WE CAN TO PROTECT CHILDREN FROM TRAUMATIC EVENTS. AND CERTAINLY,
SEEING A PARENT, GUARDIAN ARRESTED WOULD -- WOULD MOST CERTAINLY
QUALIFY AS THAT. THE PROBLEM THAT I HAVE IS THAT WE, AS A STATE, PERHAPS
ARE TRYING TO MICROMANAGE A PROBLEM THAT I'M NOT SURE EXISTS BECAUSE I
-- I'M NOT SATISFIED BY THE STATEMENTS MADE TODAY THAT WE HAVE
EXPLORED OR -- OR KNOW THAT THERE ARE POLICIES THAT ARE LACKING, THERE
ARE PROCEDURES THAT ARE LACKING. IN MY ENTIRE CAREER AS AN ATTORNEY,
I'VE WORKED WITH POLICE OFFICERS, AND -- AND ESPECIALLY BEING A -- A
FORMER SPECIAL VICTIMS PROSECUTOR DEALING WITH CHILD ABUSE CASES AND
REALLY SENSITIVE MATTERS, EVERY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY THAT I'D EVER
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WORKED WITH, PROTECTING CHILDREN AND MAKING SURE THAT CHILDREN ARE
PROTECTED IN EVERY SCENARIO IS -- IS AT THE TOP OF THEIR PRIORITY. BECAUSE
SOME NATIONAL STUDY SAYS THAT KIDS ARE TRAUMATIZED BY SEEING A PARENT
ARRESTED, OBVIOUSLY, OF COURSE. BUT IF AN ARREST HAS TO BE MADE EITHER
BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS JUST COMMITTED A CRIME AND THE POLICE HAVE TO
EFFECTUATE AN ARREST OR BECAUSE THERE WAS -- THERE WAS A WARRANT AFTER
AN INVESTIGATION, PRESENTATION TO A JUDGE, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS -- THIS
IS THE REALITY: PEOPLE COMMIT CRIMES. I'M SORRY TO SAY IN THIS CHAMBER
THAT PEOPLE DO COMMIT CRIMES IN NEW YORK, AND THEY ARE GUILTY OF
CRIMES AND THE POLICE HAVE TO DO THEIR JOB TO MAKE THOSE ARRESTS. BUT
BY PRESENTING BILLS LIKE THIS IT MAKES IT AS IF, WELL, THE POLICE NEED TO BE
SUPERVISED FURTHER BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT -- THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR PART TO
-- TO ENSURE SAFETY OF CHILDREN. AND I JUST DON'T SEE NECESSARILY THE
CORRELATION BETWEEN THIS TYPE OF LEGISLATION AND THE JUSTIFICATION THAT
HAS BEEN PRESENTED FOR IT. I THINK IF ANYTHING, WE NEED TO DO A FURTHER
EXAMINATION TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE RULES AND POLICIES IMPLEMENTED
THROUGHOUT OUR STATE ARE SUFFICIENT. I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THEY ARE.
EVEN IF YOU HAVE RULES IN PLACE, ARRESTS HAVE TO HAPPEN AND,
UNFORTUNATELY, SOMETIMES THEY HAPPEN IN FRONT OF CHILDREN. AND I
WOULD BET THAT OUR POLICE AGENCIES IN NEW YORK TO DO EVERYTHING THEY
CAN TO ENSURE THAT THE CHILDREN ARE PROTECTED IN THE EVENT THAT A PARENT
OR GUARDIAN OR SOMEONE CLOSE TO THEM IS ARRESTED.
SO AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND THE THOUGHT AND I APPRECIATE
MY -- MY COLLEAGUE AND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL PRESENTING THAT GOAL,
BUT I'M NOT SURE THIS QUITE DOES IT. I THINK THIS MISSES A FEW KEY AREAS
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
IN THIS LEGISLATION, AND FOR THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE
NEGATIVE. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. RAMOS.
MR. RAMOS: MR. SPEAKER, WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD
FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. VANEL, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MR. VANEL: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. RAMOS: MR. VANEL, I -- I, TOO, WAS A POLICE
OFFICER FOR 20 YEARS, AND I WAS READING THE BILL. THIS BILL DOESN'T
DICTATE WHAT A POLICE OFFICER SHOULD DO OR SHOULDN'T DO, RIGHT?
MR. VANEL: NO, IT DOES NOT.
MR. RAMOS: AND WE HEAR -- LIKE WE JUST HEARD
NOW THAT SOMETIMES A POLICE OFFICER HAS TO ARREST A PERSON IN FRONT OF
THE CHILD. THIS DOESN'T PROHIBIT THAT?
MR. VANEL: NO, IT DOES NOT.
MR. RAMOS: AS -- AS FAR AS THE RULES AND
PROCEDURES, THE SUPERINTENDENT OF POLICE MAKE RULES AND PROCEDURES
FOR POLICE THROUGHOUT THE STATE, RIGHT?
MR. VANEL: YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
MR. RAMOS: AND AS IT -- IT DOESN'T -- THE -- IF THIS
GIVES THE SUPERINTENDENT THE ABILITY TO COME UP WITH THESE PROTOCOLS
AND IT DOESN'T DICTATE WHAT HE SHOULD DO, AND SOME OF THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WERE SPOKEN ABOUT HERE, IF THE -- YOU'RE PUTTING THIS
IN THE HANDS OF A POLICE AGENCY TO DECIDE THE PROPER PROTOCOLS AND THEY
CAN CONSIDER THOSE EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES, RIGHT, IN THEIR PROTOCOLS?
MR. VANEL: THAT'S CORRECT.
MR. RAMOS: ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON THE BILL.
MR. RAMOS: MR. SPEAKER, AS A POLICE OFFICER I CAN
TELL YOU THAT MANY TIMES WE ARE SECOND-GUESSED, SOMETIMES MONDAY
MORNING QUARTERBACKED, AND THERE'S NOTHING MORE THAT PROTECTS A POLICE
OFFICER THAN HAVING WELL-DEFINED RULES AND PROCEDURES. THEN YOU
KNOW WHAT YOU DID WRONG, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU SHOULD DO. AND IT --
WHEN YOU HAVE EVERYTHING IN -- IN A VAGUE SITUATION WHERE YOU WALK
INTO A SITUATION AND NOTHING IS DEFINED, EVERY POLICE DEPARTMENT CAN DO
THINGS IN A DIFFERENT WAY AND THEN YOU GET SECOND-GUESSED, IT'S REALLY A
SUBJECTIVE OPINION AS TO WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT POLICE OFFICER OR WHETHER
THE POLICE OFFICER DID SOMETHING WRONG OR HE DIDN'T.
SO I SUBMIT THAT THIS BILL ACTUALLY HELPS POLICE OFFICERS
BY DEFINING THEIR JOB VERY WELL AND CREATING A CIRCUMSTANCE THAT
PROTECTS THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS THE POLICE OFFICERS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. FLOOD.
MR. FLOOD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. VANEL, WILL YOU
YIELD?
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MR. VANEL: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. VANEL YIELDS, SIR.
MR. FLOOD: THANK YOU. SO PRIOR TO SUBMITTING
THIS LEGISLATION, DID YOU CONSULT WITH ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES
UPON THEIR OPINIONS ON WHAT THIS BILL WAS GOING TO ENTAIL?
MR. VANEL: WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANY CONCERNS
REGARDING THE BILL.
MR. FLOOD: OKAY, BUT THAT -- THAT'S NOT THE
QUESTION I ASKED. THE QUESTION WAS, DID YOU CONSULT WITH ANY LAW
ENFORCEMENT?
MR. VANEL: WE CONSULTED WITH A NUMBER OF
DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT.
MR. FLOOD: COULD YOU CLARIFY THAT, PLEASE?
MR. VANEL: THE BILL -- THE BILL ITSELF WOULD MAKE
SURE THAT WE CONSULT WITH THE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
STATE POLICE.
MR. FLOOD: OKAY. DID YOU GET AN OPINION FROM
THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION?
MR. VANEL: NO.
MR. FLOOD: OKAY. I'M JUST LOOKING AT THIS BILL, AND
SO I -- I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU ASKED THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
STATE POLICE TO ARCHITECT THIS BILL, AND THEN YOU SAID WITH CONSULTATION
TO DCJS AND THE OFFICE OF CHILDREN AND FAMILY SERVICES. WHY HAVEN'T
SOMEONE LIKE THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION OR MORE MEMBERS OF
THE PBA BECAUSE, AS YOU KNOW, NEW YORK STATE IS VERY BIG AND
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
DIVERSE. WE HAVE NEW YORK CITY, WHICH IS ONE OF THE MOST POPULATED,
DENSE AREAS IN THE WORLD, AND THEN WE HAVE RURAL COUNTIES WHERE WE
HAVE ONE HOUSE EVERY SEVERAL MILES, AND THEN WE HAVE SUBURBS. SO
WOULDN'T YOU THINK HAVING MORE REPRESENTATION OF EACH AREA WOULD BE
A -- A BETTER ALTERNATIVE THAN LEAVING IT TO THE HANDS OF ESSENTIALLY ONE
PERSON WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE?
MR. VANEL: WELL, WE BELIEVE THAT THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE IS IN THE BEST POSITION TO BE ABLE TO
PROVIDE SUCH STATEWIDE POLICIES IN CONSULTATION WITH THE OTHER TWO
AGENCIES.
MR. FLOOD: WELL, SO THAT'S -- YOU -- YOU ALSO BRING
UP DCJS, AND WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THERE'S ONE MEMBER OF THEIR
EXECUTIVE BOARD WHO HAS ANY EXPERIENCE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT. MISS --
WHATEVER IT IS, MISS GLADDEN WAS A FORMER PROSECUTOR, BUT YOUR, YOU
KNOW, YOUR COMMISSIONER PRIOR TO BEING COMMISSIONER OF DCJS HAD
30 YEARS OF MEDIA EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE. NO ONE IN THIS EXECUTIVE
BOARD OTHER THAN THE -- WHAT I JUST PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, HAS ANY LAW
ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE OR ANY HANDS-ON KNOWLEDGE OF HOW POLICE
WORKS, THE POLICING WORKS IN THE STATE. SO WHY IS IT THAT THESE PEOPLE
ARE BEING CONSULTED ON HOW POLICE OFFICERS SHOULD TAKE ACTION?
MR. VANEL: AGAIN, THE BILL DIRECTS THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF THE STATE POLICE TO BE ABLE TO DO SO, IN CONJUNCTION
WITH THESE OTHER TWO AGENCIES. BUT THE -- THE SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE
POLICE IS GOING TO BE THE ONE PRIMARILY PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.
MR. FLOOD: SO, AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
SAYING, BUT IS IT WISE TO PUT A STATE AS LARGE AND AS POPULOUS AND
DIVERSE AS NEW YORK STATE TO ESSENTIALLY TO PUT IN THE HANDS OF ONE
PERSON WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE TO COME WITH UP ESSENTIALLY
ALL OF THE PRACTICES FOR THE ENTIRE STATE?
MR. VANEL: THE SUPERINTENDENT -- SUPERINTENDENT
OF STATE POLICE DOES THAT ON MANY DIFFERENT -- A MYRIAD OF ISSUES, AND
THIS IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER ONE OF THEM.
MR. FLOOD: BUT ESSENTIALLY, I CAN -- I CAN ASSURE
YOU, I'M NOT A POLICE OFFICER, MY TWIN BROTHER IS, THOUGH, AND HE'S ONE
OF THE RARE PEOPLE THAT HAS JURISDICTION THROUGHOUT THE STATE AS A
MEMBER OF THE MTA. HE GOES WHEREVER THE RAILROADS GO. IT'S A LOT
DIFFERENT WHEN HE'S POLICING IN NEW YORK CITY THAN IT IS WHEN YOU'RE --
YOU'RE UP IN, YOU KNOW, RURAL ORANGE COUNTY OR SOMEWHERE WHERE
THERE'S MORE SUBURBAN YOU HAVE MORE OR LESS TO THINK ABOUT, YOU HAVE
DIFFERENT SCENARIOS. WOULDN'T IT BE WISE TO SAY IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE
THIS BROAD-STANDING BILL FOR EVERY POLICE OFFICER IN THE STATE TO FOLLOW
THIS PROCEDURE, THAT WE'D INCLUDE MORE PEOPLE IN THE PROCESS OF COMING
UP WITH THESE BILLS?
MR. VANEL: AGAIN, NO. THIS -- THIS BILL IS NOT
DIRECTING ANY SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION OR ANY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS,
RECOMMENDATIONS OR POLICIES. IT'S REQUIRING THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
STATE POLICE WHO IS -- OVERSEES THE STATE POLICE WHETHER YOU'RE IN NEW
YORK CITY OR UPSTATE OR NORTH COUNTRY. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. AND IN
ORDER TO DO SO, THAT'S -- YOU KNOW, THIS WILL PROMULGATE SO THAT THEY, IN
CONJUNCTION WITH THE TWO OTHER AGENCIES TO BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THE PROPER PROCEDURES.
MR. FLOOD: I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT YOU SAID -- LIKE
YOU SAID, HE OVERSEES STATE POLICE. HE DOESN'T OVERSEE COUNTY POLICE,
HE DOESN'T OVERSEE LOCAL POLICE. HE OVERSEES THE STATE POLICE. SO
THERE MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE FROM OTHER AGENCIES, ESPECIALLY
OTHER AGENCIES WHERE YOU DON'T GET THE STATE POLICE. OCCASIONALLY OUT
ON LONG ISLAND YOU MIGHT SEE A POLICE -- LIKE A STATE POLICE CAR ON THE
HIGHWAY SOMEWHERE ON THE LONG ISLAND EXPRESSWAY. YOU DON'T SEE
THEM IN THE TOWNS AND IN THE VILLAGES. YOU -- YOU JUST DON'T. SO THEY
DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCE AS OUR LOCAL POLICE.
NOW, I'M JUST GONNA THROW THIS OUT THERE: WE SAY THIS
A LOT AND, YOU KNOW, MY COLLEAGUE SAID SOMETIMES WE COME BACK AND
WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE, YOU KNOW -- WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE FIXES TO THINGS,
UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE TRYING -- AND WE'RE ALSO RIGHT NOW TRYING TO MAKE
FIXES TO THE BAIL REFORM LAWS WHICH, AGAIN, WERE PASSED IN 2019
WITHOUT CONSULTING THE PROPER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. SO BEFORE
WE PASS A BILL THAT'S GONNA HAVE LONGSTANDING, YOU KNOW, AND, YOU
KNOW, DRAMATIC EFFECTS ON THE WAY POLICE DO THEIR JOB, WOULDN'T IT BE
SMART TO START THE PROCESS BY ADDING MORE OPINIONS OF LOCAL, CITY,
URBAN, SUBURBAN POLICE OFFICERS AND PEOPLE IN LEO AND PEOPLE THAT
PROSECUTE THESE CASES LIKE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS THAN JUST PUTTING IT IN THE
HANDS OF -- OF THE COMMISSIONER OF THE STATE POLICE? I'M SORRY, THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF THE STATE POLICE.
MR. VANEL: I -- I'M NOT HERE TO TELL THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF THE STATE POLICE HOW TO DO THEIR JOBS. I BELIEVE THAT
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
IT'S GREAT FOR PEOPLE -- FOR MORE STAKEHOLDERS TO PARTICIPATE IN MANY --
IN MANY OF OUR DECISION-MAKING AND PROCESSES OF WHAT TO DO. BUT
WE'RE -- THIS BILL DIRECTS THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE STATE POLICE, AGAIN,
AND NOT ALONE, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE TWO OTHER AGENCIES TO BE ABLE TO
PROMULGATE THE PROPER PROTOCOLS.
MR. FLOOD: WELL, I UNDERSTAND. AND WITH ALL DUE
RESPECT TO THE TWO OTHER AGENCIES, I BELIEVE THE DEPARTMENT OF
CHILDREN AND FAMILIES WILL DO A GREAT JOB LOOKING OUT FOR THE
DEPARTMENT OF CHILDREN -- AND FOR THE CHILDREN OF THIS ISSUE, BUT MY
CONCERN IS ALSO WITH THE MEMBERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT. DCJS -- DCJS
DOES NOT HAVE ANY MEMBER OVER ONE WITH ANY BACKGROUND IN LAW
ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE. I'VE READ THROUGH THE ENTIRE EXECUTIVE BIOS;
ONE PROSECUTED FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE. NONE OF THEM HAS
ANY EXPERIENCE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT. WE HAVE MORE LAW ENFORCEMENT
EXPERIENCE IN THIS BODY THAN DCJS DOES. AS A MEMBER OF -- AS A
MEMBER OF -- YOU KNOW, I -- I GREW UP AS A FAMILY OF POLICE OFFICERS;
MY GRANDFATHER, MY UNCLE, MY BROTHER, MY BROTHER-IN-LAW, SEVERAL
COUSINS. EACH OF THEM HAVE REPRESENTED DIFFERENT AREAS AND EACH OF
THEM HAVE DONE A VERY DIFFERENT JOB. SO WHEN YOU'RE SAYING WE'RE
GONNA PUT ALL OF THE STATE'S STAKEHOLDERS AND BASICALLY EVERYTHING A
POLICE OFFICER IS GOING TO DO IN THE HANDS OF ONE OFFICIAL FROM LAW
ENFORCEMENT, I JUST THINK THAT'S UNWISE.
MR. VANEL: WELL, LISTEN, THAT -- THE -- THE -- WHAT
WE HAVE IN PLACE IS WE HAVE A SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE, AND
THAT'S OUR -- THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE. THAT'S THE PROCESS AND PROCEDURES
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE. AND WHAT WE'RE -- WHAT WE'RE DIRECTING FOLKS TO
DO IN THIS BILL, AGAIN, WE'RE NOT TELLING THEM HOW TO ARREST FOLKS, HOW TO
ARREST PARENTS OR NOT TO ARREST PARENTS. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ARRESTS
AND CHILD-SENSITIVE ARREST POLICIES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REALLY AT THREE
DIFFERENT TIMES; PRE-ARREST, THE ARREST AND POST-ARREST. WE WANT TO
MAKE SURE THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT WE HAVE CHILD-SENSITIVE
POLICES TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MINIMIZE THE IMPACTS ON -- ON THE
CHILDREN.
MR. FLOOD: WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT AS MY
COLLEAGUE JUST MENTIONED, POLICE OFFICERS ALREADY DO THIS. WHEN
CHILDREN ARE AT THE SCENE, ANOTHER POLICE OFFICER COMES AND STAYS WITH
THEM, THEY MAKE ARRANGEMENTS. I MEAN, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHERE THIS
IS COMING FROM, BECAUSE HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A SITUATION WHERE
SOMEONE, A FATHER, A MOTHER IS ARRESTED AND THE POLICE LEFT CHILDREN AT
THE HOUSE BY THEMSELVES TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES?
MR. VANEL: UNFORTUNATELY, YES. UNFORTUNATELY I'VE
HEARD OF MANY INSTANCES WHERE -- WHERE -- WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN --
WHEN THERE HAVE BEEN ARRESTS OR WHEN THERE ARE CRIMINAL-RELATED
INSTANCES WHERE CHILDREN ARE LEFT UNATTENDED. THAT HAPPENS,
UNFORTUNATELY.
MR. FLOOD: CAN -- CAN YOU FIND ME A -- YOU KNOW,
OBVIOUSLY NOT RIGHT NOW, BUT CAN YOU FIND ME A SPECIFIC INSTANCE OF
THAT HAPPENING?
MR. VANEL: YES.
MR. FLOOD: BECAUSE I -- I GOT TO BE HONEST, I --
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
I'M HARD TO BELIEVE THAT TO BE ACCURATE.
ANYWAY, SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. FLOOD: I'M GOING TO PONTIFICATE A LITTLE HERE
BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY, WE WERE AT A PRESS CONFERENCE THIS MORNING
TALKING ABOUT HOW WE NEED TO PROTECT LAW ENFORCEMENT.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAD A MEMBER OF THE NEW YORK -- NYPD MURDERED
OVER THE WEEKEND. POLICE OFFICERS DON'T NEED MORE BUREAU --
BUREAUCRATIC NONSENSE TELLING THEM HOW TO DO THEIR JOB. THEY GO
THROUGH BASIC. THEY'RE THE ONES OUT ON THE STREETS, THEY'RE THE ONES THAT
KNOW HOW TO DO THEIR JOBS. THEY'RE THE ONES THAT KNOW HOW IT IS TO
COME HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES. REGARDLESS OF WHAT THIS BODY SAYS, THE
MAJORITY, OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF POLICE OFFICERS DO THEIR JOB
BECAUSE THEY WANT TO PROTECT PEOPLE. AND SO IN A SITUATION WHERE,
UNFORTUNATELY, A PARENT IS BEING ARRESTED, THOSE POLICE OFFICERS AT THE
SCENE WANT TO PROTECT THOSE CHILDREN JUST AS MUCH AS THEY WANT TO
PROTECT EVERYONE ELSE. TO KEEP ADDING OVERSIGHT AND KEEP MAKING IT
SO THAT OUR POLICE CAN'T DO THEIR JOB, NEW YORK STATE IS JUST BECOMING
A LESS SAFE STATE. THIS IS ANOTHER REASON WHY PEOPLE FLEE NEW YORK,
WHY PEOPLE FEEL LESS SAFE IN NEW YORK. OUR POLICE OFFICERS DO AN
ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL JOB. BUT THEY'RE HANDCUFFED BY THE RULES THAT THIS
BODY, THE SENATE AND THE GOVERNOR PUT INTO PLACE OVER THE LAST FIVE
YEARS. THESE KIND OF BILLS MAKE IT HARDER FOR THE POLICE TO DO THEIR JOBS
EFFECTIVELY.
PLEASE, BEFORE WE PASS MORE ILL-SUITED LEGISLATION, CAN
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
WE, YOU KNOW, TAKE THE TIME TO SPEAK TO THE MEMBERS OF THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY TO GET THEIR INPUT, NOT JUST SIMPLY SAY, OH,
WELL, NO ONE'S HAD ANY, YOU KNOW, OPPOSITION TO IT? DO THEY EVEN
KNOW? WHY RUSH THESE THINGS? WHY -- WHY RUSH THIS WHEN WE CAN
TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY REACH OUT AND GET LAW ENFORCEMENT'S, YOU
KNOW, PERSPECTIVE ON THIS? GET THE PERSPECTIVE OF OUR DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION WHO PROSECUTE THESE MATTERS. BRING THEM ALL
INTO IT.
I'M GONNA VOTE NO ON THIS LEGISLATION AND I HOPE MY
COLLEAGUES WILL DO THE SAME. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. REILLY.
MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. VANEL, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MR. VANEL: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. VANEL YIELDS, SIR.
MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MR. VANEL. SO WITH THIS
LEGISLATION, IS THERE ANY MECHANISM IN PLACE? I GUESS A PENALTY FOR THE
STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF POLICE ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH THIS?
MR. VANEL: NO.
MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO WHEN IT COMES -- I SAW IT IN
SECTION C OF THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL, THERE'S A SECTION THAT SAYS ABOUT
EDUCATION ON HOW WITNESSING VIOLENCE CAUSES EMOTIONAL HARM TO
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CHILDREN AND HOW LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN ASSIST IN MINIMIZING THE IMPACT
OF SUCH HARM.
MR. VANEL: YES.
MR. REILLY: CAN YOU -- CAN YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT WHAT -- THAT PORTION?
MR. VANEL: AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO SEE -- WE'RE
TRYING TO -- THAT'S WHAT -- WHERE THE SUPERINTENDENT WOULD WORK IN
CONJUNCTION WITH THE OTHER AGENCY -- WITH OCFS POTENTIALLY TO -- IN
SOME SORT OF MAYBE POTENTIAL TRAINING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MINIMIZE
THE EFFECTS OF -- OF -- OF ANY POTENTIAL INTERACTION WITH THE POLICE FOR --
WITH THE PARENTS WHERE CHILDREN ARE -- ARE IDENTIFYING THAT POSITION.
MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO I NOTICED THROUGHOUT THE
LANGUAGE OF THE BILL IT SPECIFICALLY STATES, MEMBERS OF THE STATE POLICE.
NOW DURING THE DEBATE I HEARD THAT IT WOULD APPLY TO LOCAL POLICE
DEPARTMENTS, POTENTIALLY LAW ENFORCEMENT THROUGHOUT THE STATE. CAN
WE BE MORE CLEAR ON THAT? IS IT STRICTLY FOR THE STATE POLICE OR WOULD IT
BE THE ENTIRE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY THROUGHOUT NEW YORK
STATE?
MR. VANEL: IT'S FOR THE STATE AND LOCAL LAW
ENFORCEMENT. LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, I BELIEVE -- I BELIEVE USES IT --
USES OUR POLICIES AS A GUIDE, BUT WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THE STATE.
MR. REILLY: SO AS A -- SO WHEN YOU SAY "AS A
GUIDE," YOU MEAN SPECIFICALLY THEY ARE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR BEST
PRACTICES? WOULD THAT BE -- WOULD THAT BE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
MR. VANEL: I -- I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK TOO STRONGLY
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ON THAT BUT WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THE STATE POLICE.
MR. REILLY: SO THE STATE POLICE SUPERINTENDENT
HAS JURISDICTION OVER LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENTS?
(PAUSE)
MR. VANEL: SO AGAIN, WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER
THE STATE POLICE, LOCAL LAW -- LOCAL -- LOCAL LAW ORGANIZATIONS MAY USE
OUR PROCESSES AS A GUIDE, BUT WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THE STATE
POLICE.
MR. REILLY: OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. VANEL.
ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.
REILLY.
MR. REILLY: SO, LIKE LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT LIKE
NEW YORK CITY, THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT, THEY ALREADY
HAVE A HUGE PATROL GUIDE THAT HAS POLICIES IN PLACE THAT ARE A GUIDANCE
FOR POLICE OFFICERS. AND IN ONE OF THE SECTIONS, IT'S SPECIFICALLY DEALING
WITH YOUTH THAT ARE -- A FAMILY MEMBER IS TAKEN INTO CUSTODY. SO THOSE
POLICIES ARE IN PLACE IN NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT. SO THE
REASON WHY I WAS ASKING MY QUESTIONS BECAUSE I WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT
WHEN THIS BILL TAKES EFFECT AND IT BECOMES LAW AND IT'S SIGNED BY THE
GOVERNOR, THAT THE SUPERINTENDENT OF POLICE AND THOSE OTHER AGENCIES
THAT WILL PUT TOGETHER THE RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE POLICIES FOR STATE
POLICE OFFICERS, THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE USED AS A GUIDE, A SUGGESTION
FOR OTHER LOCAL AUTHORITIES. AND I THINK WHEN -- WHEN WE LOOK AT IT IN
THE TERMS OF BEST PRACTICES, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT LOCAL
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
DEPARTMENTS SHOULD HAVE AN INPUT WITH, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE
MAY GET WITH THOSE OUTSIDE AGENCIES BEING A PART OF IT. SO I'M LOOKING
FORWARD TO HEARING A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT IT AND SEEING WHERE IT WILL GO
DOWN THE ROAD WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT I THINK JUST A CLARIFICATION THAT
THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF POLICE, THIS WOULD MANDATE HIS AGENCY
TAKE PLACE WITH THESE POLICIES THAT MAY BE IMPLEMENTED AND THE OTHER
DEPARTMENTS WOULD BE A GUIDE. SO THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THANK
YOU, MR. VANEL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE
REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE
OF LEGISLATION. IF THERE ARE MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE YES, THEY MAY
DO SO AT THEIR DESKS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, THE
MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES THAT WOULD
DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. ANGELINO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. UNDER THE REIGN OF CUOMO II, THERE WAS THE POLICE
IMPROVEMENT ACT THAT WAS PUSHED UPON EVERY LAW ENFORCEMENT
AGENCY IN THE STATE, AND THAT REQUIRED ALL AGENCIES TO FOLLOW THE
ACCREDITATION PROCESS. AND THE ACCREDITATION PROCESS OF LAW
ENFORCEMENT, IT'S 2- OR 300 DIFFERENT POINTS THAT EVERY AGENCY HAS TO
ADHERE TO. AND EVERY AGENCY IN THE STATE HAS TO HAVE THAT INCLUDED IN
THEIR POLICY PROCEDURES MANUAL. THE REASON THERE IS NO UNIFORM POLICY
OVER IN NEW YORK STATE IS BECAUSE THERE'S 500 POLICE AGENCIES IN NEW
YORK STATE. AND HEARING THAT THE SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE HAS
AUTHORITY OVER THOSE AGENCIES WAS NEWS TO ME. I WAS THE ADMINISTRATOR
OF A CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR OVER 20 YEARS AND NEVER ONCE DID THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF THE STATE POLICE DICTATE ANYTHING IN MY AGENCY. THE
OTHER AGENCIES THAT DO HAVE SAY OVER THAT AGENCY IN NEW YORK STATE IS
THE NEW YORK STATE SHERIFFS ASSOCIATION AND THE NEW YORK STATE
ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE. THEY OFTENTIMES COLLABORATE WITH THE
NEW YORK STATE POLICE TO HELP WITH POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. BUT A
QUICK LOOK-THROUGH THE NEW YORK STATE ACCREDITATION PROCESS SHOWS
THERE'S A POLICY THAT ALL AGENCIES ADHERE TO KNOWN AS SAFEGUARDING OF
CHILDREN OF ARRESTED PARENTS AND CAREGIVERS. SO THIS IS ALREADY
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COVERED BY DCJS AND IT'S PROBABLY THE REASON THIS BILL HAS BEEN AROUND
SINCE 2012. THIS BILL HAS NOT CHANGED SINCE 2012 BUT LAW ENFORCEMENT
IN NEW YORK STATE HAS. THAT MAKES THIS WHOLE LANGUAGE OF THIS
LEGISLATION MOOT.
SO HOPEFULLY I HAVE CONVINCED SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES
TO JOIN ME IN VOTING NO ON THIS LEGISLATION. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ANGELINO IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MS. LUNSFORD TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. A FEW
YEARS AGO A WOMAN WAS ARRESTED FOR SHOPLIFTING. HER THREE-YEAR-OLD
DAUGHTER WAS WITH HER AT THE TIME. SHE WAS APPROACHED, DETAINED AND
WHEN SHE PROTESTED THAT SHE HAD DONE NOTHING WRONG, SHE WAS PINNED,
HANDCUFFED AND PEPPER SPRAYED. HER THREE-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER FLED THE
AREA, WAS LEFT SOBBING UNTIL ANOTHER OFFICER ARRIVED ON THE SCENE AND
REMOVED THE CHILD. THAT WOMAN WAS ULTIMATELY GIVEN AN APPEARANCE
TICKET FOR TRESPASSING BECAUSE THEY COULD FIND NO EVIDENCE THAT SHE HAD
BEEN SHOPLIFTING. ABOVE AND BEYOND THE TRAUMA THAT THREE-YEAR-OLD
GIRL SUFFERED IN THAT MOMENT, THAT WAS VERY LIKELY HER FIRST INTERACTION
WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT. AND FOR TOO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE, SEEING A
LOVED ONE ARRESTED IS THEIR FIRST CONTACT WITH A POLICE OFFICER. WHEN WE
SEE TEENS AND YOUNG ADULTS FLEEING THE POLICE AND WE ASK WHY, THAT'S
WHY. WHEN WE SAY THAT YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE POLICE,
THAT'S WHY. SO I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING FORTH THIS
BILL THAT WILL HOPEFULLY BEGIN TO REPAIR THAT LOSS OF TRUST AND GIVE YOUNG
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A BETTER INTERACTION WITH LAW
ENFORCEMENT. AS A DAUGHTER OF A POLICE OFFICER I KNOW THAT THERE ARE
PLENTY OF GOOD POLICE WHO MEAN VERY WELL, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT YOUNG PEOPLE GET TO SEE THAT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LUNSFORD IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. WALKER TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR
ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. AGAIN, THIS IS NOTHING NEW. THE
INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE HAVE PROMULGATED BEST
PRACTICES FOR POLICIES AND PROCEDURES WITH RESPECT TO CHILD SENSITIVE
ARRESTS. THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IN A PUBLICATION
ENTITLED THE POLICE CHIEF ALSO HAS BEST PRACTICES WITH RESPECT TO THIS
VERY SAME ISSUE. MY MOM WAS A FOSTER PARENT, AND MANY LATE NIGHTS
SHE WOULD RECEIVE CHILDREN WHO WERE BROUGHT TO HER THROUGH THE
SYSTEM AFTER A PARENT HAD BEEN ARRESTED. I REMEMBER THE SHAKING,
DEVASTATED, TEARFUL INFANTS, TODDLERS WHO WERE CRYING OUT FOR THEIR
PARENTS IN THAT INSTANCE. AND SO FEEL HOW YOU MAY FEEL WITH RESPECT TO
THE CRIMINALIZATION OR OVER-POLICING OF COMMUNITIES WHETHER WRONGFUL
OR JUST. BUT THE CHILDREN ARE THE INNOCENT. BUT AGAIN, WE HAVE SEEN
TIME AND TIME AGAIN WHERE THEY HAVE SUFFERED THE MOST, THE LATE AND
DETRIMENTAL EFFECTS. THE TRAUMATIZATION OF WATCHING THEIR PARENTS BE
ARRESTED MAKES THEM SUFFER IRREPARABLE HARM. SO I, TOO, WANT TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT BILL AS WE LOOK OUT FOR
THE INTEREST OF THE MOST VULNERABLE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITIES, OUR
CHILDREN WHO WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT WHEN THEY GROW UP THAT THEIR
INTERACTIONS WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS ONE THAT IS MEMORABLE, IS
ONE THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT THE POLICE ARE THERE TO SERVE AND TO PROTECT
THEIR INTEREST AS OPPOSED TO DEMEANING AND DEMORALIZING THEIR PARENTS
WHO THEY PROBABLY LOVE MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS WORLD.
SO AGAIN, THANK YOU AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. FLOOD TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. FLOOD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. SO I KNOW
THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS AFTER I -- AFTER I GOT SOME QUESTIONING ABOUT
MY COLLEAGUES OF WHETHER THE STATE POLICE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THE
LOCAL WHICH OF COURSE THEY DON'T; HOWEVER, THIS BILL ADDRESSES THAT. SO
IF YOU GO DOWN TO SECTION 3, THIS AMENDS THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW,
SECTION 120.85 WHERE IT STATES, STATE AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT
OFFICERS WHO ARREST INDIVIDUALS SHALL, MEANING THAT THEY MUST. IT DOES
IT AGAIN IN SECTION 140.17. STATE AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS
WHO ARREST AN INDIVIDUAL SHALL. SO AGAIN, WE ARE PUTTING ALL OF STATE
POLICE'S PROCESSES IN THE HAND OF ONE INDIVIDUAL WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT
EXPERIENCE. THIS BILL ONE, I THINK IS UNNECESSARY, TWO, IF ANYTHING IF
THIS BODY IS DEAD SET ON PASSING IT, IT SHOULD GO BACK TO THE DRAWING
TABLE AND INCLUDE MORE MEMBERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT FROM EACH
SPECIFIC AREA IN SUBURB, URBAN, RURAL AND LET THESE LAW ENFORCEMENT
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
OFFICERS COME TO THE TABLE AND HAVE A SAY IN THE PROCESS, NOT SIMPLY THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF THE STATE POLICE BECAUSE THIS EFFECTS EVERY POLICE
OFFICER THROUGHOUT THE STATE. I'M VOTING NO, THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. FLOOD IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MR. NOVAKAHOV TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I
THINK IF WE WOULD BE VOTING FOR THIS BILL BACK IN 2019, I BELIEVE MANY
OF US WOULD BE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THIS LEGISLATIVE
BODY CREATED SO MANY BAD BILLS, SO MANY BILLS THAT ARE
ANTI-ENFORCEMENT, ANTI-POLICE AND PRO CRIMINAL THAT WE'RE JUST AFRAID
THAT THIS -- THIS IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER BAD ANTI-POLICE AND ANTI-POLICY
ENFORCEMENT BILL, AND FOR THIS REASON I'M IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU,
MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NOVAKAHOV IN
THE NEGATIVE.
MR. VANEL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. VANEL: (MIC CUT OUT)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: HOLD ON, MR. VANEL.
YOUR MIC IS A LITTLE LOW. TRY THAT NOW.
MR. VANEL: MR. SPEAKER, SO THIS BILL IS A SIMPLE
BILL. THIS BILL IS NOT TELLING THE POLICE WHAT TO DO WITH THE PROPER
PROCEDURES. THIS BILL IS TELLING THE POLICE, TELLING THE SUPERINTENDENT
OF STATE POLICE TO COME UP WITH CHILD SENSITIVE ARREST POLICIES. WE
WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE -- WE TAKE CARE OF THE BEST INTEREST OF THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
CHILDREN. WE'RE NOT AGAINST POLICE. WE WANT A SAFE COMMUNITY, BUT
WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PROTECT THE CHILDREN. THERE'S MANY
INSTANCES WHERE, AS -- AS MY COLLEAGUES MENTIONED, WHERE ARRESTS
HAPPEN, RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY SO, IN FRONT OF THE CHILD AND -- AND THE
POLICIES AREN'T -- THE POLICIES AREN'T IN PLACE. WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT POLICE OFFICERS HAVE PROPER POLICIES IN PLACE. WE WANT TO
MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE RIGHT RULES. THIS IS COMPLICATED AND IT'S
DIFFICULT, BUT WE WANT -- WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT NEW YORK IS A
PLACE THAT IS SAFE AND THAT WE TAKE CARE OF THE CHILDREN. AND ALSO, WE
WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE CLEAR RULES FOR THE OFFICERS IN POSITIONS
WHERE WE CAN DO SO. I VOTE IN THE POSITIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. VANEL IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
YOU PLEASE WITHDRAW THIS VOTE AND PROCEED WITH A ROLL CALL VOTE?
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE VOTE IS
WITHDRAWN AND A SLOW ROLL CALL HAS BEEN REQUESTED. MEMBERS MUST
COME TO THE FLOOR TO CAST YOUR VOTE. THANK YOU.
A REMINDER, MEMBERS YOU HEARING MY VOICE MEANS
THAT YOU SHOULD BE ON THE WAY TO THE CHAMBER TO CAST YOUR VOTE.
MR. HEVESI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, SHH.
THANK YOU.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MR. HEVESI: SO LISTEN, THE REASON WHY I'M
SPEAKING ON THIS BILL IS TO CONGRATULATE THE SPONSOR BUT I THINK THERE'S A
MISSED IMPRESSION THAT THIS IS AN ANTI-POLICE BILL. ABSOLUTELY NOT IN NO
WAY, ANY SHAPE OR FORM. FIRST, YOU'RE ASKING THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
POLICE TO MAKE REGULATIONS FOR ARRESTS AND POLICIES AND PROCEDURES.
THAT'S WHAT HE DOES, HE OR SHE DOES. THAT'S THEIR JOB. AND THEN THE
SECOND THING IS, IT'S NOT JUST THAT WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID TRAUMA BECAUSE
TRAUMA IS BAD, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID THE LONG-TERM ADVERSE
CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES OF THOSE TRAUMA. SO EVERY KID IF THEY SEE THEIR
PARENTS SLAMMED UP AGAINST A CAR OR SOMEBODY IN THEIR OFFICE AT WORK,
THIS DOES NOT SAY THAT THE COPS DID ANYTHING WRONG. I AM PRO COP, I GOT
COPS IN MY FAMILY, OKAY? BUT COPS ARE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT, IF
SOMEBODY IN YOU'RE FAMILY IS BEING ARRESTED, THAT'S A TRAUMATIC
EXPERIENCE AND WHAT HAPPENS TO TRAUMATIZED KIDS? EXPONENTIALLY
MORE LIKELY TO FAIL OUT OF SCHOOL, EXPONENTIALLY MORE LIKELY TO WIND UP
IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, EXPONENTIALLY MORE LIKELY TO GET
DISEASES BECAUSE OF THE STRESS OF THE TRAUMA. THE REASON WHY WE'RE
DOING THIS IS TO PROTECT KIDS, SO THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-COP BILL, THIS IS HEY,
HOW CAN WE LET LAW ENFORCEMENT GUIDE US ON HOW TO DO LAW
ENFORCEMENT BETTER. THAT'S ALL THIS IS. SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE IDEA
THAT THIS IS AN ANTI-COP BILL, THIS IS A PRO KID BILL AND EVERYBODY SHOULD
BE SUPPORTING THIS BILL TODAY. THANK YOU. MR. VANEL FOR BRINGING IT TO
OUR ATTENTION. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. HEVESI IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MR. FRIEND TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. FRIEND: THANK YOU MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN
MY VOTE. UNFORTUNATELY LAST FRIDAY WE HAD A TERRIBLE INCIDENT HAPPEN
IN CHEMUNG COUNTY IN BIG FLATS. WE HAD A SHOPLIFTER AT TARGET, THEY
WEREN'T JUST STEALING BREAD, THEY WERE STEALING BIG SCREEN TVS. THIS
INDIVIDUAL MANAGED TO DROP THOSE ITEMS BEFORE HE LEFT THE STORE BUT THE
POLICE PURSUED HIM. THE DEPUTY SHERIFF INVESTIGATOR MICHAEL THEETGE
APPREHENDED THE INDIVIDUAL IN THE -- IN THE DRIVE -- OUT IN THE DRIVE
AREA. UNFORTUNATELY THE GETAWAY DRIVER THOUGHT IT WAS IN HER BEST
INTEREST TO HIT BOTH OF THEM. MICHAEL THEETGE HIT THE CAR FIRST
PROTECTING THE SHOPLIFTER, THE GETAWAY DRIVER IMMEDIATELY TURNED
THROWING BOTH OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS TO THE GROUND. ONCE AGAIN, DEPUTY
INVESTIGATOR MICHAEL THEETGE PROTECTED THE SHOPLIFTER AND HE CRACKED
HIS HEAD ON THE GROUND. HE HAS BEEN IN CRITICAL CONDITION EVER SINCE
LAST FRIDAY. NOW WHY DO I BRING THIS UP? BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT
TRAUMA, EMOTIONAL HARM. THAT DOESN'T JUST GO ONE WAY. THIS WAS A
PARKING LOT IN A SHOPPING AREA WITH MANY PEOPLE FROM THE COMMUNITY.
WHERE IS IT IN THAT GETAWAY DRIVER'S INTEREST WAS IT IN THE COMMUNITY
AND THE CHILDREN THAT SHE WAS RIGHT THERE HAVING THE BEST INTEREST TO GO
AND HIT A POLICE OFFICER? THIS EDUCATION GOES IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. THE
BEST EDUCATION YOU GIVE IS TO LIVE A LAWFUL LIFE. DON'T STEAL, DON'T
SHOPLIFT, DON'T COMMIT CRIME, DON'T DO DRUGS. SIMPLE RULES TO LIVE BY,
THAT DID NOT HAPPEN LAST FRIDAY. THIS DEPUTY SHERIFF IS STILL IN CRITICAL
CONDITION. MY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO HE AND HIS FAMILY. HE
HAS TWO YOUNG SONS AT HOME, A WIFE WAITING FOR HIM TO COME HOME.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THIS COULD HAVE ALL BEEN PREVENTED HAD SHE JUST NOT HIT HIM, IF SHE HAD
BEEN THINKING FORWARD. I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. FRIEND IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MR. ANDERSON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. ANDERSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT
TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR INTRODUCING THIS CRITICAL PIECE OF LEGISLATION.
IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT OUR POLICE AGENCIES AND ALL AGENCIES ACROSS
OUR STATE HAVE POLICIES IN WHICH THEY WORK WITH CHILDREN. THE REASON
WHY I TOOK A MOMENT TO SPEAK UP ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, AS A
YOUNG BLACK BOY GROWING UP IN BROOKLYN AND MOVING TO QUEENS AT A
YOUNGER AGE, THE MAIN THING THAT OUR SCHOOLS WANTED TO USE AS A TOOL TO
HELP WITH RESOLVING CONFLICT WAS CALLING THE POLICE, AND AT AGE SEVEN I
WAS HANDCUFFED TO A CHAIR AT A CLASSROOM AND THAT WASN'T A CHILD
SENSITIVE RESPONSE TO A FIGHT OR A SCUFFLE THAT I HAD WITH ANOTHER
STUDENT. I THINK THAT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WOULD ENSURE THAT OUR
POLICE AGENCIES KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH A SEVEN-YEAR-OLD WHO HAS A
SCUFFLE WITH ANOTHER STUDENT AND KNOWS HOW TO DEAL WITH THOSE THINGS
IN A CHILD SENSITIVE WAY. THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY ANY POWERS FROM
POLICE. THIS DOES NOT TAKE ANY POWERS AWAY FROM EMS OR ANY OTHER
RESPONDING AGENCIES OR ENTITIES. IT ENSURES THAT WE HAVE A CLEAR SET OF
RULES AND GUIDELINES ACROSS OUR AGENCIES.
SO I'M SADDENED THAT MY COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE AISLE
WILL TAKE THIS AS A OPPORTUNITY TO SAY THAT THIS IS AN ANTI-POLICE PIECE OF
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LEGISLATION, BUT IT CERTAINLY HELPS OUR POLICE BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW TO
RESOLVE AND WORK THROUGH THOSE CONFLICTS IN THAT MOMENT.
AND FOR THOSE REASONS, MR. SPEAKER, I WITHDRAW MY
REQUEST AND PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ANDERSON IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU
PLEASE HAVE THE CLERK RECOGNIZE OUR COLLEAGUES THAT ARE ON ZOOM FOR
THEIR VOTES, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CLERK WILL RECORD
THOSE ON ZOOM.
THE CLERK: MS. GALLAGHER, FOR THE RECORD PLEASE
STATE YOUR NAME AND HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.
MS. GALLAGHER: (MIC OFF)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: HER SOUND IS --
MS. GALLAGHER: HI. I'M EMILY GALLAGHER AND I
VOTE YES.
THE CLERK: MS. GALLAGHER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. MCDONOUGH, PLEASE STATE -- FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE
STATE YOUR NAME AND HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.
MR. MCDONOUGH?
MR. MCDONOUGH?
MR. MCDONOUGH: YES. DAVID MCDONOUGH IN
THE NEGATIVE.
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THE CLERK: MR. MCDONOUGH IN THE NEGATIVE.
MS. SILLITTI, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND
HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.
MS. SILLITTI: GINA SILLITTI AND I VOTE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
THE CLERK: MS. SILLITTI IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANYWHERE? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
(APPLAUSE)
PAGE 25, CALENDAR NO. 324, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01903-A, CALENDAR
NO. 324, GLICK, BORES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN
RELATION TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF UNIFORM STANDARDS FOR THE COLORING OF
WIND TURBINE ROTOR BLADES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A EXPLANATION IS
REQUESTED HOWEVER LONG YOU WANT TO MAKE IT, MS. GLICK.
MS. GLICK: WELL, HAPPY TO EXPLAIN THE BILL. IT
WOULD REQUIRE THE OFFICE OF RENEWABLE ENERGY CITING -- TO ESTABLISH
STANDARDS FOR THE COLORING OF A WIND TURBINE BLADE IN ORDER TO MINIMIZE
BIRD COLLISIONS ONCE A DETERMINATION AUTHORIZING SUCH BLADE COLORING
HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE FAA. AND I WILL SAY THAT THERE IS CURRENTLY A
STUDY BEING DONE BY THE U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY WITH THE U.S. FISH
AND WILDLIFE, THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, OREGON STATE UNIVERSITY
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
AND OTHERS TO DETERMINE THE EFFICACY OF THIS. IT IS -- IT IS AN ISSUE
BECAUSE THERE WAS AN EARLIER STUDY PUBLISHED IN THE JOURNAL OF ECOLOGY
AND EVOLUTION THAT FOUND THAT BY PAINTING A SINGLE BLADE ON A WIND
TURBINE IT MADE IT MORE VISIBLE TO BIRDS AND REDUCED BIRD COLLISIONS BY
72 PERCENT. SO THAT WAS A SEPARATE STUDY AND NOW THE FAA HAS
UNDERTAKEN THIS MORE EXTENSIVE REVIEW IN WYOMING.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MANKTELOW.
MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: CERTAINLY. THAT'S WHY I STAYED
STANDING.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK YIELDS.
MR. MANKTELOW: I'M SORRY. I COULDN'T HEAR MS.
GLICK.
MS. GLICK: THAT'S WHY I STAYED STANDING, BRIAN.
MR. MANKTELOW: GREAT TO SEE YOU. JUST BACK TO
THE FFA, THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, WHERE ARE THEY -- WHERE
ARE THEY WITH THIS WHOLE PROCESS RIGHT NOW?
MS. GLICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THIS BILL BEFORE
US BEFORE BASED ON THE EARLIER STUDY, AND THEN WE DISCOVERED THAT IN
FACT WE -- THAT THIS IS CONTROLLED BY THE FAA AND IT IS GRATIFYING THAT THE
FAA WORKING WITH -- THAT THE STUDY WAS UNDERTAKEN WITH THE
UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FAA WOULD REVIEW THE RESULTS OF THE STUDY AND
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
WOULD ACT UPON IT DEPENDING ON WHAT THE RESULTS OF THE STUDY ARE.
MR. MANKTELOW: AND DOES THAT ALSO INCLUDE THE
COLOR BLACK FOR THE BLADE?
MS. GLICK: YES, I BELIEVE IN FACT THAT IS THE COLOR
THEY ARE USING.
MR. MANKTELOW: AND -- AND MADAM, WHO CHOSE
THAT COLOR? IS THERE A SIGNIFICANCE TO THAT COLOR?
MS. GLICK: I THINK IT WAS THE CONTRAST, WHITE BLACK.
MR. MANKTELOW: IS THAT MORE FOR THE BIRDS OR
MORE FOR THE PILOTS?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I WOULD THINK THAT WE WOULD
HOPE THAT PILOTS WOULDN'T BE GETTING CLOSE TO WIND TURBINES.
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. SO IF THIS DOES GO
THROUGH, AND I THINK THAT STUDY WAS DONE IN NORWAY, CORRECT?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THAT FIRST STUDY. THE CURRENT
STUDY THAT IS BEING UNDERTAKEN BY -- IN COOPERATION WITH A NUMBER OF
AGENCIES IS OCCURRING NOW IN WYOMING.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO IF -- IF THE DETERMINATION IS
TO GO TO A -- A SINGLE COLOR BLADE TO OFFSET, YOU KNOW, EITHER THE WHITE
ONES OR THE LIGHT GRAY ONES AS --
MS. GLICK: THEY ARE WHITE. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO
BE WHITE UNDER THE FAA RULES. I BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE ALL WHITE. IF ONE
IS PERCEIVING SOME TO BE GRAY, THAT MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH
THEM NOT BEING CLEAN, BUT THEY -- IT IS A WHITE. IT'S REQUIRED TO BE A
WHITE BLADE AND WHAT THEY ARE EXPLORING IS A SINGLE BLACK BLADE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
MR. MANKTELOW: AND IS THAT THE SAME COLOR
BLADE THAT WAS USED IN THE NORWAY STUDY AS WELL?
MS. GLICK: I BELIEVE IT WAS, BUT I DON'T HAVE THAT
INFORMATION DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF ME.
MR. MANKTELOW: AND IF THIS DOES GO THROUGH,
DO YOU SEE AN INCREASED COST TO THE INDIVIDUALS PUTTING THESE UNITS UP?
WILL THAT --
MS. GLICK: I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THAT IS ANYTHING BUT
A DE MINIMUS CHANGE IN THEIR OPERATION.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO --
MS. GLICK: FOR ALL I KNOW, THEY START OUT WITH A
BLACK BLADE AND THEY PAINT IT WHITE.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO AS WE LOOK AT DIFFERENT
STUDIES AND YOU SPOKE ABOUT ONE JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO, ARE WE
CONSIDERING ANY PILOT STUDIES HERE IN NEW YORK STATE?
MS. GLICK: WELL, WE DON'T HAVE TO - IF YOU'LL
PARDON THE PUN - REINVENT THE WHEEL. IF IN FACT THIS STUDY THAT IS BEING
UNDERTAKEN BY THE ARRAY OF AGENCIES COMES OUT WITH A DETERMINATION,
THAT WOULD BE -- THE FAA WOULD ACT ON IT AND WE WOULD THEREFORE NOT
NEED TO DO A SEPARATE STUDY. THE PURPOSE OF THIS STUDY IS BEING DONE,
AS I SAID, BY A COALITION OF US GOVERNMENT AGENCIES TO INFORM THE
FAA.
MR. MANKTELOW: AND THEY'RE GOING TO INFORM
THE FFA -- FAA OF WHAT? THE COLOR CHOICE OR --
MS. GLICK: WHETHER OR NOT IT IS SUFFICIENTLY
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
EFFECTIVE IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS A -- AUTHORIZE IT AS A REQUIREMENT OR
AUTHORIZE IT AS PERMISSIVE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT RULING WOULD BE MADE
BY THE FAA BECAUSE THE STUDY HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED.
MR. MANKTELOW: AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT FLIGHT
PATTERNS OF BIRDS AS WELL I'M ASSUMING?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I DON'T HAVE IN FRONT OF ME ALL OF
THE DETAILS OF THE PROTOCOLS FOR THE STUDY BUT I HAVE GREAT CONFIDENCE IN
THE U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, U.S. GEOLOGICAL
SURVEY, RENEWABLE ENERGY WILDLIFE INSTITUTE AND OTHERS TO DESIGN THE
STUDY AND DETERMINE FROM THE METHODOLOGY WHETHER OR NOT THIS HAS THE
SAME DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT IN AVOIDING BIRD COLLISIONS AND THEREBY
SAVING MANY BIRDS.
MR. MANKTELOW: WELL, THE ONE STUDY I DID LOOK
AT, THE ONE THAT'S ACTUALLY COMPLETE THAT WAS DONE BACK A FEW YEARS
AGO, THE ONE THAT WAS DONE OUT IN NORWAY, THERE WERE SIX INDIVIDUALS
THAT HAD DONE THAT STUDY AND THIS IS WHAT THEY SAID. THEY SAID, WE
RECOMMEND TO EITHER REPLICATE THIS STUDY PREFERABLY WITH MORE TREATED
TURBINES OR TO IMPLEMENT THE MEASURE AT NEW SITES AND MONITOR
COLLISION FATALITIES TO VERIFY WHETHER SIMILAR RESULTS ARE OBTAINED
ELSEWHERE AND TO DETERMINE TO WHICH EXTENT THE EFFECT IS GENERALIZABLE.
SO SEEING THIS IS DONE OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK STATE, WHEN DO YOU SEE US
DOING ONE IN NEW YORK STATE?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE REPETITIVE
AND UNNECESSARY. I THINK THAT THIS STUDY BEING DONE IS -- WE HAVE TO
SEE WHAT THE RESULTS ARE, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S BEING DESIGNED IN A WAY TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
INFORM THE FAA, AND I DON'T THINK THAT -- AND THIS IS A LARGER STUDY. I
BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE WORKED ON 28 TURBINES AND ARE COMPLETING
ADDITIONAL EIGHT THIS YEAR. SO I, YOU KNOW, METHODOLOGY IN DESIGNING
STUDIES, IT IS COMPLICATED WHICH IS WHY I THINK THESE VARIOUS AGENCIES
ARE WORKING TOGETHER. STATISTICALLY THEY CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION AS
TO WHETHER OR NOT THE -- THE PAINTING OF A SINGLE BLADE HAS HAD AN
EFFECT. I PRESUME THAT THERE IS SOME CONTROL INVOLVED IN SOME OF THE
TURBINES WITHIN THAT AREA NOT BEING PAINTED VERSUS THOSE THAT ARE AND
THAT IS HOW YOU DO A COMPARISON, BUT THE DETAILS OF THE ENTIRE STUDY
DESIGN IS NOT AVAILABLE TO ME HERE BUT I SUSPECT THAT THE FAA WILL NOT
ACT PRECIPITOUSLY IF IT DOES NOT FEEL THAT THERE IS A SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF
DATA. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THEY COULD DETERMINE AT THE END OF THE STUDY
THAT AN ADDITIONAL STUDY NEEDS TO BE TAKEN OR THE RESULTS COULD BE
SUFFICIENTLY DRAMATIC THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT THE DE MINIMUS COST OF
PAINTING ONE BLADE OF A TURBINE IS, AS I SAY, AN INSIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC
COST THAT IS WORTH SAVING A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF BIRDS AND RAPTORS'
LIVES.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO -- SO -- SO WHAT'S DRIVING
THIS LEGISLATION IS ACTUALLY SAVING THE BIRDS, CORRECT? THE BIRDS AND THE
BEES BECAUSE BEES DO GET TAKEN OUT BY WIND TURBINES AS WELL.
MS. GLICK: WELL, IT'S PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON BIRDS.
MR. MANKTELOW: BIRDS.
MS. GLICK: THERE IS I THINK PROBABLY SOME OTHER
THOUGHT. HAVING LOOKED AT THE U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY WEBSITE IT
LOOKS LIKE THERE MAY BE SOME OTHER CONSIDERATION FOR A DIFFERENT TYPE
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OF STUDY FOR -- RELATED TO BATS BECAUSE BATS ECHOLOCATE AS OPPOSED TO
VISUAL, SO THIS IS PRIMARILY BIRDS.
MR. MANKTELOW: ALL RIGHT. I DID A LITTLE
RESEARCH ON THIS AND I WAS -- I WAS REALLY SURPRISED THAT MANY OF THE
MAJOR GROUPS SITE THAT THIS STUDY IS BEING INSUFFICIENT TO ESTABLISH A
GENERALIZED THEORY OF A PAINTED BLADE ON WIND TURBINES MINIMIZING THE
BIRD COLLISIONS, AND SOME OF THESE GROUPS ARE HERE -- HERE IN NEW
YORK. THE AUDUBON OF NEW YORK, ALLIANCE FOR CLEAN ENERGY, THE
AMERICAN BIRD CONSERVANCY, INDEPENDENT POWER PRODUCERS OF NEW
YORK. AND THE INDIVIDUAL, JOEL MERRIMAN, DO YOU KNOW WHO -- WHO
THAT PERSON IS?
MS. GLICK: OH YEAH.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO HE EVEN CITED THAT IT'S TOO
SOON TO BILL THIS AS A PROVEN TECHNIQUE TO MINIMIZE BIRD MORTALITY AT
WIND ENERGY FACILITIES. WE'RE SEEING MANY PEOPLE REFER -- REFER TO THIS
PAPER AS IF IT'S A PROVEN METHOD. AND I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT WE ARE
DOING SOME OTHER STUDIES. WHAT I'D REALLY LIKE TO SEE IS ONE OR TWO
PILOT STUDIES HERE IN NEW YORK, BECAUSE THE MIGRATION OF THE BIRDS THAT
COME THROUGH OUR STATE ARE MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THEY ARE OUT IN THE
MIDWEST. AND SPEAKING OF THAT, SO OF THE MANY DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE
KILL BIRDS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, THAT BIRDS ARE TAKEN OUT, WHY ARE
WE PUSHING THE WIND TURBINES AT THIS POINT?
MS. GLICK: WELL, WE'RE NOT -- THAT'S THE ONLY THING
THAT WE'RE DOING. OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE HAD -- THERE ARE MEASURES AROUND
BIRD SAFE GLASS. AS AN EXAMPLE, THE JAVITS CONVENTION CENTER WAS
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KNOWN AS A -- A KILLING SITE FOR BIRDS BECAUSE OF THE REFLECTIVE GLASS.
THEY REDID THE GLASS WITH THREADED MARKINGS AND IT ALMOST COMPLETELY
ELIMINATED BIRD COLLISION. SO IT'S NOT THE ONLY THING WE'RE DOING, IT'S
ONE THING THAT WE'RE DOING. THERE ARE -- WHEN WE DO THE TRIBUTE IN
LIGHT FOR A COMMEMORATION OF 9/11, THERE ARE TWO VERY POWERFUL BEAMS
THAT ARE UP AT NIGHT AND THEY -- WORKING WITH CORNELL, THEY OBSERVE
RADAR PATTERNS DURING THE MIGRATION BECAUSE SEPTEMBER IS A MIGRATORY
TIME AND THEY SHUT THE LIGHTS OFF WHEN THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF
BIRDS MOVING BECAUSE THAT -- THOSE LIGHTS DISORIENTED THE BIRDS. SO WE
SEE SOME OF OUR ACTIONS THAT ARE DETRIMENTAL TO WILDLIFE AND WE TRY TO
ADDRESS THAT, BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO CASUALLY AND CARELESSLY
HAVE WILDLIFE OF VARIOUS DESCRIPTIONS NEEDLESSLY KILLED.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH ON,
YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT WAYS THAT BIRDS ARE TAKEN OUT, AND IT REALLY
SURPRISED ME THAT THE NUMBER ONE IS BY CATS; 2.4 BILLION BIRDS SINCE
2013 HAVE TAKEN OUT THAT MANY BIRDS. AND THEN MORE SURPRISINGLY, THE
COLLISIONS WITH THE BIRDS IN THE GLASS THAT YOU JUST SPOKE ABOUT, ABOUT
599 MILLION SINCE '14, VEHICLE COLLISION IS AT 72 OR 214,500,000,
COLLISION WITH COMMUNICATION POWERS. BUT THE OTHER ONE THAT REALLY
CAUGHT MY EYE AND I'M JUST WONDERING HOW WE'RE GOING TO DEAL WITH
THIS, IS THE COLLISION WITH POWER LINES. ELECTROCUTIONS OF BIRDS. AND
WERE ALREADY AT 5,600,000. AS WE PUSH ELECTRIFICATION IN NEW YORK,
WE'RE ADDING MORE AND MORE POWER LINES, OVERHEAD POWER LINES. SO
WHAT IS OUR PLAN THERE TO OFFSET THE DEATH OF THE BIRDS BY ADDING MORE
POWER LINES?
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MS. GLICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, THE BILL IS NOT ABOUT,
YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE THE DETAILED LIST OF INTERACTIONS THAT KILL BIRDS.
OBVIOUSLY, CATS ARE A PROBLEM AND I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT NOBODY
SHOULD LET THEIR CAT OUT OF THE HOUSE. CATS THAT ARE ROAMING FREE ARE
PROBLEMATIC, SOMETIMES IT IS NOT FOR FOOD, BUT SOMETIMES IT IS. BUT LOTS
OF PEOPLE LET THEIR CATS OUT INEXPLICABLY SO I THINK THAT'S A BAD IDEA.
MR. MANKTELOW: IT'S A LOT OF FERAL CATS AS WELL.
MS. GLICK: AND THERE ARE CERTAINLY FERAL CATS WHICH
IS WHY I TOOK ONE IN -- BUT LET ME, I'M SORRY, LET ME JUST RESPOND. YOU
ASKED ABOUT ELECTRIC TOWERS AND I WILL SAY THAT THERE HAVE BEEN EFFORTS
BY A NUMBER OF ELECTRIC COMPANIES TO DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT MANY OF
THE LARGER BIRDS LIKE OSPREY OR EAGLES MAKE NESTS ON THE TOWERS AND
THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A PROCESS BY WHICH THEY PUT UP A GUARD OF SOME SORT
TO PROTECT BIRDS OF COMING IN AND OUT OF THOSE NESTS. NOW I DON'T KNOW
WHETHER CONTACT WITH EVERY PART OF THE WIRE IS DANGEROUS BUT -- THERE
WE GO. I'M SO SORRY. DO YOU NEED YOUR NEXT 15?
MR. MANKTELOW: MY TIME IS UP. I'LL HAVE A FEW
MORE COMMENTS -- WHEN I EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR
TIME --
MS. GLICK: WELL, THANK YOU.
MR. MANKTELOW: AND WE'LL BE CHATTING MORE,
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PALMESANO.
MR. PALMESANO: YES, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?
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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: YES, OF COURSE.
MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MS. GLICK. I
APPRECIATE IT. MY COLLEAGUE COVERED SOME OF THE AREAS. I DID HAVE
SOME QUESTIONS I WANTED TO ASK, AND I KNOW YOU PROBABLY TOUCHED ON
THEM BUT JUST FOR THE RECORD.
CURRENTLY, NEW YORK'S REGULATIONS REQUIRE THAT WIND
TURBINES, TOWERS AND BLADES SHALL BE FAA-APPROVED WHITE OR OFF WHITE
COLORS TO AVOID THE NEED FOR DAYTIME AVIATION HAZARD LIGHTING AND THE
FAA STANDARDS CURRENTLY STATE THAT WIND TURBINES SHOULD BE PAINTED
WHITE OR LIGHT GRAY. THAT'S CORRECT RIGHT NOW UNDER THE REGULATIONS,
YES?
MS. GLICK: YES.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY, THANK YOU. SO REALLY THIS
LEGISLATION, I KNOW THERE'S A STUDY THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT -- THE STUDY
THAT'S BEING DONE, THIS BILL WOULDN'T TAKE EFFECT UNTIL AFTER THAT STUDY IS
COMPLETED --
MS. GLICK: NOT EVEN AFTER THE STUDY IS DONE. IT
WOULDN'T TAKE EFFECT UNTIL THE FAA ACTS.
MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT.
MS. GLICK: AND THAT COULD BE AT THE END OF THIS
STUDY OR THE END OF TWO OTHER STUDIES.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. DOES THIS BILL EXEMPT
EXISTING FACILITIES OR IF THE FAA CAME BACK AND SAID SOMETHING, WOULD
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THEY -- THIS BILL DOESN'T EXEMPT EXISTING FACILITIES --
MS. GLICK: IT ALLOWS OURS TO SET STANDARDS SO I
WOULD IMAGINE THAT THEY WOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHETHER OR NOT
IT WAS NECESSARY OR APPROPRIATE TO REQUIRE AT REPLACEMENT OR REPAIR A
CHANGE.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. IF IT DOES REQUIRE A
RETROFITTING OF THESE EXISTING FACILITIES, DO YOU ENVISION THAT BEING A
PROBLEM WITH THE STATE MEETING THEIR CLCPA GOALS IN ANY WAY
WHATSOEVER?
MS. GLICK: NO. I -- I DON'T ENVISION THAT THE -- OURS
WOULD PROBABLY GIVE SUFFICIENT TIME FOR THERE TO BE -- IF THERE NEEDED
TO BE A RETROFIT. ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE GIVEN TIME PERIODS SO I DON'T
FORESEE THAT IT WOULD IMPACT IN ANY WAY ON OUR ABILITY TO MEET THE
CLCPA GOALS.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. IN YOUR SPONSOR'S MEMO
I THINK YOU BROUGHT UP WHERE YOU SAID THAT FISH AND WILDLIFE ESTIMATES
THERE'S 500 BIRD DEATHS -- 500,000 BIRD DEATHS ANNUALLY FROM WIND?
MS. GLICK: NO, THAT WAS BRIAN.
MR. PALMESANO: WELL, I'M JUST READING FROM
YOUR SPONSOR'S MEMO THAT SAYS THE U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE
ESTIMATES THAT UP TO 500,000 BIRD DEATHS ARE ATTRIBUTED TO COLLISION WITH
WIND TURBINES. THAT'S FROM YOUR MEMO.
MS. GLICK: WELL, THEN THAT'S WHAT THE INFORMATION
THAT WE HAD. IT COULD BE MORE NOW, IT COULD BE LESS.
MR. PALMESANO: NO, I UNDERSTAND. SO 500,000
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AND WE WANT TO AVOID THAT FROM HAPPENING. I MEAN WOULDN'T ONE WAY
TO AVOID IT FROM HAPPENING IS JUST NOT PUT THEM UP IN THE FIRST PLACE?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THAT WOULD BE OF COURSE ONE WAY
TO -- AND IN FACT, WE COULD MEET OUR GOALS BY GOING BACK TO HORSE AND
BUGGY, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
MR. PALMESANO: SO WE'RE ALSO NOT ONLY -- WITH
THESE BIRD STRIKES, ARE THEY ON LAND? WHAT ABOUT OFFSHORE? BECAUSE
WE HAVE BIRD STRIKES THAT HAPPEN PROBABLY OFFSHORE AND THERE'S ALSO
ISSUES WITH WHALES AND MARINE LIFE BEING IMPACTED BY, YOU KNOW,
SOME STUDIES AND PEOPLE -- ENVIRONMENTAL ADVOCATES ARE COMING OUT
AND SPEAKING ON IT. ISN'T THAT A CONCERN AS WELL? ISN'T A --
MS. GLICK: WELL, THAT MAY BE A CONCERN BUT THE BILL
IS FOCUSED ON THE PAINTING OF ONE TURBINE BLADE --
MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT.
MS. GLICK: -- IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM MORE VISIBLE TO
BIRDS AND THE STUDY IS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, TRY TO ASCERTAIN IF THAT IS A
SIGNIFICANT ADJUSTMENT TO MAKE IT WORTHWHILE.
MR. PALMESANO: ANY REASON WHY THE COLOR BLACK
IS THE MAIN COLOR TO BE USED TO PAINT THE BLADE OR IS THAT NOT IT? COULD
IT BE GREEN, YELLOW OR... I THINK THE STUDY --
MS. GLICK: I DON'T KNOW HOW THE STUDY IS DESIGNED
SO IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THEY HAVE TRIED SOME OTHER COLORS, BUT THE INITIAL --
THE INITIAL ATTEMPT, WHICH DEMONSTRATED IN A SMALL STUDY, WAS BLACK
AND I PRESUME THAT THAT WAS ABOUT CONTRAST. YOU KNOW, SOME -- AND IT
MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH WHAT THE LARGEST NUMBER OF BIRDS IN
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TERMS OF COLOR PERCEPTION. I'M NOT A BIOLOGIST SO I'M NOT -- OR AN
OPHTHALMOLOGIST, SO I'M NOT CERTAIN WHAT THE RECEPTORS FOR BIRDS ARE BUT
I PRESUME THAT THAT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE DETERMINATION.
MR. PALMESANO: AND SO WHEN THESE BIRD STRIKES
HAPPEN, DON'T THEY ALSO OBVIOUSLY -- BECAUSE THE BLADES ARE FIBERGLASS
AND THEY'RE -- NOW YOU GOT PARTICLES OF FIBERGLASS GOING OVER TO LANDS
AND SOILS WHEN THOSE COLLISIONS HAPPEN WHICH ISN'T GOOD FOR THE LAND
AND THE ENVIRONMENT AS WELL, WOULDN'T YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
MS. GLICK: NOT NECESSARILY.
MR. PALMESANO: OH, SO IT IS OKAY FOR FIBERGLASS
TO BE ON LAND AND SOIL AND THAT'S NOT PROBLEMATIC ENVIRONMENTALLY?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I -- I DON'T -- YOU'RE ASKING ME TO
ASSERT THAT -- TO AFFIRM THAT YOUR ASSERTION IS ACCURATE AND I DON'T KNOW
THAT TO BE TRUE. SO I'M NOT GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, YES WHAT YOU HAVE
SAID IS ACCURATE AND THEREFORE I AGREE. I DON'T THINK IT'S A POSITIVE THING
TO BE SPRAYING FIBERGLASS IN THE SAME WAY THAT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD
BE USING LEAD IN BULLETS BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION..
MR. PALMESANO: THAT IS A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION
AND I'LL -- I'LL ACCEPT YOUR ANSWER ON THAT. WITH THE SMALLER STUDY THAT
TOOK PLACE, THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT EIGHT TURBINES AND THEN
FOUR OF THEM HAD PAINT ON THEM, CORRECT? AND THAT'S WHEN THEY CAME
OUT --
MS. GLICK: I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU.
MR. PALMESANO: ON A SMALLER STUDY, I THINK THE
ONE YOU'RE REFERRED TO AND ACKNOWLEDGED IS A SMALLER STUDY, I THINK IT
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WAS DONE IN NORWAY A FEW YEARS AGO, THAT HAD -- THEY PAINTED FOUR
TURBINES. THEY PAINTED FOUR OF THE EIGHT TURBINES, CORRECT?
MS. GLICK: I -- I DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT IN FRONT OF
ME.
MR. PALMESANO: AND SO, AGAIN, OBVIOUSLY YOU'LL
PROBABLY POINT TO THE FACT THAT THAT'S WHY THERE'S BIGGER STUDIES THAT ARE
TAKEN BECAUSE THE AUTHORS OF THAT STUDY WHEN THEY -- WHEN THEY PUT IT
OUT SAID THAT WE MUST THEREFORE BE CAREFUL WHAT WE DEDUCED FROM THE
EXPERIMENT GIVEN THE LIMITED NUMBER OF TURBINES -- TURBINE (INAUDIBLE).
SO WITH, YOU'LL SAY, OKAY, THAT'S WHY WE NEED THE BIGGER STUDY THAT'S
GOING ON RIGHT NOW.
MS. GLICK: WELL, WE FREQUENTLY LOOK AT SMALL
SAMPLES. THEY GIVE US AN INDICATION BUT THEN WE DECIDE THAT IT'S NOT
SUFFICIENTLY INFORMATIVE OR DISPOSITIVE OF THE THESIS. SO THEN WE GO
BACK AND WE LOOK AT A LARGER SAMPLE, AND THAT IS WHAT'S BEING
UNDERTAKEN NOW. IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY IN
CONSULTATION WILL DECIDE THAT THEY NEED YET ANOTHER STUDY AND PERHAPS
IN ANOTHER LOCATION, BUT THAT'S TO BE DETERMINED AFTER THIS ONE IS DONE.
MR. PALMESANO: SURE. NO, I APPRECIATE THAT. SO
AS FAR AS THE STUDY THAT IS GOING -- I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT HAVE MENTIONED
-- DID YOU SAY SOME TURBINES ARE BEING TESTED NOW AND THEY'RE PAINTING
THEM -- IS THAT ACCURATE OR WE'RE NOT SURE WHERE THE STUDY IS OR WHAT'S
INVOLVED IN THAT STUDY?
MS. GLICK: THEY ARE DEFINITELY PAINTING ONE BLADE
ON A LARGER NUMBER OF TURBINES, BUT I DID SAY WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY
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WHAT THE METHODOLOGY IS INVOLVED IN THE DESIGN OF THE STUDY, I
PRESUMED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE SOME THAT WERE SIMILARLY SITUATED THAT
WERE NOT BEING PAINTED SO THEY WOULD HAVE A COMPARISON BUT I DON'T
KNOW THAT FOR SURE. I'M JUST ASSUMING THAT IN MOST SCIENTIFIC
EXPERIMENTS YOU HAVE CONTROL AND YOU HAVE THE -- WHAT YOU'RE TESTING.
MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT, AND I CAN -- I CAN
APPRECIATE THAT. AND AS FAR AS THE PAINT, I MEAN I KNOW WE SAID BLACK
PAINT IS BEING USED ON THE ONES IN THE NORWAY STUDY. WE DON'T KNOW
WHAT THE PAINTS ARE GOING TO BE ON THE OTHER ONES THAT ARE BEING TESTED.
WILL THIS PAINT BE LIKE OIL-BASED PAINT OR WATER-BASED PAINT BECAUSE OF
FIBERGLASS YOU PROBABLY NEED OIL-BASED PAINT, RIGHT? I KNOW THERE'S
CONCERNS ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL KINDS OF OIL-BASED PAINT.
MS. GLICK: I -- I REALLY DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, IT'S
ALWAYS A QUESTION WHAT EXACTLY SHOULD YOU USE ON ACRYLIC TO CLEAN IT
VERSUS, YOU KNOW, STONE. SO I AM NOT DESIGNING OR RUNNING THE TEST. I
PRESUME THOSE WHO ARE HAVE DETERMINED WHICH PAINTS ARE MOST
APPROPRIATE FOR THE APPLICATION.
MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MS. GLICK, FOR YOUR
TIME. I APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
MS. GLICK: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL.
MR. PALMESANO: YES, MR. SPEAKER, AND MY
COLLEAGUES. I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE SPONSOR IS TRYING TO DO HERE. I THINK
THERE'S A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT BEFORE WE GO DOWN THIS ROAD.
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OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THE INITIAL STUDY THAT WAS CITED EARLY ON IN THE
SPONSOR'S MEMO WAS MORE NARROW. TO FIND OUT THERE'S A MORE
THOROUGH STUDY BEING DONE I THINK THAT'S A POSITIVE SIGN THAT NEEDS TO
BE ADDRESSED. BUT I THINK ALSO THESE GUIDELINES REALLY NEED TO BE KEPT
AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND NOT THE STATE LEVEL, AND I ALSO THINK WE NEED TO
EXAMINE THE ISSUE OF WHEN WE ARE GOING FORWARD AS FAR AS WHETHER
THEY ARE RETROFITTING EXISTING WIND TURBINES AND WHETHER THAT -- I MEAN
PART OF THAT CONCERN IS WHETHER WE MEET OUR CLCPA GOALS NOW. I'M
BEING HONEST WITH YOU. I WOULD NOT HESITATE TO DELAY THE CLCPA FOR A
WHOLE OTHER HOST OF REASONS BUT THAT'S ANOTHER DISCUSSION. OBVIOUSLY I
KNOW THERE'S GOTTA BE DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE FAA AND OFFICE OF
RENEWABLE ENERGY, BUT RIGHT NOW WE NEED MORE RESEARCH AND THAT --
HOPEFULLY THAT STUDY BRINGS US MORE OF THAT RESEARCH AS WE MOVE
FORWARD. I GUESS I'LL JUST PIVOT TO THIS. I MEAN OBVIOUSLY WITH THE
WINDMILLS IS ALL PART OF THE CLCPA, THE WIND FARMS WE SEE GOING UP
ALL OVER UPSTATE, NEW YORK, NOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE OFFSHORE. IT'S NOT
REALLY A DISPATCHABLE SOURCE OF ENERGY, IT'S NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE OF
ENERGY, IT'S NOT AN IMPORTABLE SOURCE OF ENERGY. BUT WE CONTINUE TO
SEE THIS LAND UPSTATE BEING PENETRATED BY THESE WINDMILLS ON OUR
FARMLAND. AND I WOULD SAY, TOO, I MEAN A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE
WAY THESE WINDMILLS LOOK NOW. AND NOW THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE ONE OF
THEM PAINTED A DIFFERENT COLOR, THIS IS JUST GOING TO MAKE IT EVEN LOOK
WORSE, I WOULD THINK. I THINK, I MEAN I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD
THINK SO TO HAVE ONE WINDMILL WITH ALL WHITE BLADES BUT THEN ANOTHER
BLACK BLADE IN THERE. I THINK THAT DOESN'T LOOK TOO FRIENDLY TO THE EYE
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ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL SIDE OF THAT, BUT I THINK SOMETIMES I THINK WHEN
WE DO THIS TYPE OF LEGISLATION IT'S MORE FEEL GOOD LEGISLATION. IF WE
WANT TO STRIKE -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 500,000 BIRD STRIKES ANNUALLY OF
BIRDS DYING. THE SIMPLEST WAY, LET'S NOT JUST KEEP PUTTING THESE THINGS
UP. WE ALSO HEAR ABOUT IN THE -- IN THE OCEAN WITH THE OFFSHORE WIND
THAT'S BEING DEVELOPED, WE SEE PEOPLE RAISING THE ALARM ABOUT WHALES
DYING AND MARINE LIFE BEING IMPACTED. HOW COME THAT'S NOT BEING
TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, BUT IT'S REALLY KIND OF PART OF THE WHOLE
CLCPA, GREEN NEW DEAL FOR NEW YORK WITH THE WIND, THE SOLAR,
WHICH AGAIN IS PROLIFERATING ALL OVER UPSTATE, NEW YORK. TAKING OUR
LANDS, OUR FARMLANDS, IT KIND OF GOES INTO THE SAME THING WE HAVE WITH
THE MINING FOR LITHIUM WHERE IN THE AFRICAN COUNTRIES YOU SEE WATER,
SEWERS, RIVERS BEING POLLUTED IN THESE COUNTRIES. THE SAME THING AS
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST WITH THE COBALT MINING THAT'S BEING DONE
BY THE CHILDREN IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO, SOME 35- TO
40,000 CHILDREN ARE ESTIMATED WORKING THESE ARTISAN MINES WITH THESE
MINING COLLAPSES HAS HAPPENED, KILLED THEM, PARALYZED THEM AND
MAIMED THEM. THAT'S PROBLEMATIC FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AS WELL. AS
PART OF THIS PLAN IT JUST SEEMS LIKE -- WITH THESE POLICIES THE END
JUSTIFIES THE MEANS. I ADMIT, I'M GOING A LITTLE BIT OFF TRACK ON THE
SPECIFICS OF THE BILL BUT WINDMILLS AND WIND FARMS ARE PART OF THE
CLCPA SO I DO THINK THAT IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S ETHICAL TO WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT HERE. AND ALSO, THE OTHER THING WITH THE WINDMILLS, THE
PROCESS TO PRODUCE THE WINDMILLS, THE SITING OF THEM HAS A NEGATIVE
ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT AS WELL. I BROUGHT UP THE POINT WITH THE
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FIBERGLASS, (INAUDIBLE) THE FIBERGLASS IS SPREADING. WE HAD A FIRE ON A
WINDMILL IN THE SOUTHERN TIER AND YOU COULD SEE THE FLAMES AND THE
FIBERGLASS BLOWING OFF. I DON'T THINK THAT'S PROBABLY
ENVIRONMENTAL-FRIENDLY, CERTAINLY NOT FOR THE LANDS IN UPSTATE NEW
YORK ON THE FARMERS' LANDS WHERE IT'S LANDING ON THEIR SOIL IS NOT WHAT
IS APPROPRIATE. BUT AGAIN, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IN ALL THESE POLICIES
WHETHER IT'S WIND, SOLAR, ELECTRIC VEHICLES WITH THE BATTERIES WHERE
THEY'RE POISONING WATERS, RIVERS AND STREAMS WITH LITHIUM MINING IN
AFRICAN COUNTRIES, THE COBALT MINING WITH THE CHILDREN OF THE CONGO
MINING FOR THAT. JUST ONE THING AFTER ANOTHER AND IT'S ALL PART OF AN
ENERGY POLICY THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT MORE AFFORDABLE OR RELIABLE AND
CERTAINLY NOT DISPATCHABLE SO ON A 24/7 DEMAND. AND I KNOW IT'S FEEL
GOOD LEGISLATION BECAUSE WE CAN TRY TO GET THIS -- NEW YORK IS ONLY 0.4
PERCENT OF TOTAL GLOBAL EMISSIONS .4. CHINA JUST BROKE 29 PERCENT AND
IS NOW 30 PERCENT OF GLOBAL EMISSIONS. AND PRESIDENT BIDEN ONCE
SAID, AND I DON'T AGREE WITH HIM ON MUCH, HE SAID IF CHINA IS NOT WITH
US, WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME. I AGREE WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, WE'RE
WASTING OUR TIME ON THIS POLICY, IT'S FEEL GOOD. IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE A
SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON GLOBAL EMISSIONS. BUT IT IS GOING TO DRIVE MORE
AND MORE NEW YORK FAMILIES, FARMERS, BUSINESSES AND MANUFACTURERS
LEAVING THE STATE AND THE NATION LEADING IN THE OUTMIGRATION --
OUTMIGRATION CRISIS THAT WE SEE HAPPENING EACH AND EVERY DAY IN THIS
STATE.
SO FOR THIS REASON AND OTHERS, I'LL BE VOTING NO BUT I DO
APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S TIME ON THIS LEGISLATION. THANK YOU.
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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. BYRNES.
MS. BYRNES: MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: SURE.
MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. OBVIOUSLY
THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE TO YOU, WHICH IS WHY YOU'RE HERE IF HUNDREDS
OF THOUSANDS OF BIRDS ARE BEING KILLED BY THE WIND TURBINES, OBVIOUSLY
WAY MORE ARE BEING KILLED BY WIND TURBINES THAN PHEASANT OR GROUSE
DURING HUNTING SEASON SO IT IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE. WOULD YOU SUPPORT
OR DOES THIS BILL SUPPORT AND INCLUDE A MORATORIUM ON THE CONSTRUCTION
OF NEW WIND TURBINES UNTIL WE HAVE BIRD-FRIENDLY BLADE PROTOCOLS IN
PLACE --
MS. GLICK: NO.
MS. BYRNES: -- TO STOP THE MASS KILLINGS?
MS. GLICK: NO, IT DOES NOT.
MS. BYRNES: OKAY. MASS KILLINGS CAN CONTINUE.
500,000 IS A LOT OF DEAD BIRDS.
MS. GLICK: WELL, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THERE ARE
LOTS OF HUMAN ACTIVITIES THAT ARE DAMAGING TO WILDLIFE OF VARIOUS
DESCRIPTIONS AS WELL AS TO OUR OWN HEALTH AND WELL-BEING. AND SO WE
HAVE SEEN FROM THE USE OF FOSSIL FUELS THAT THERE ARE NEGATIVE IMPACTS
ON THE ENVIRONMENT FROM EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRIES.
MS. BYRNES: CORRECT.
MS. GLICK: WE'RE TRYING TO FIND DIFFERENT WAYS AND
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WHEN WE SEE WHAT MIGHT BE A PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS IT.
(INAUDIBLE) SOLVES EVERYTHING.
MS. BYRNES: SO YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED A PROBLEM OF
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BIRDS BEING KILLED AND MURDERED BY WIND
TURBINES AND THE --
MS. GLICK: IT'S NOT INTENTIONAL. IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT --
-- IT'S NOT INTENTIONAL.
MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. YOU ALSO MENTIONED THE
IMPORTANCE AND YOU REFERENCED TO HUMAN BEINGS, TOO. IS THERE ANY
STUDY THAT GOES INTO THIS -- THIS DECISION ON THE COLOR OF THE BLADES THAT
OTHER THAN THE BIRDS THAT -- THAT ANY STUDY THAT'S TAKEN INTO EFFECT THE
COLOR OF THE BLADES ON THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE UNDERNEATH THEM OR ARE
OTHERWISE EFFECTED BY THEM? IT'S CLEAR FROM ALL OF THE WIND TURBINE
MANUFACTURERS THAT I'VE SPOKEN TO, THEY RECOGNIZE THAT THERE IS A
SPECIFIC EFFECT, THEY CALL IT FLICKER. WHEN THE BLADES ARE GOING AROUND
DEPENDING ON WHERE THE SUN IS IN THE SKY, IT CAN BE A HUGE PROBLEM FOR
HOMES THAT ARE IN THE SHADE AND AS THOSE BLADES GOING AROUND THEY CALL
IT FLICKER. (MAKING SOUND) IN AND OUT, IN AND OUT, IN AND OUT. IS THERE
ANY STUDIES ABOUT THE EFFECT OF EITHER THE COLOR OF THE BLADES ON THE --
OR THE ROTATION OF THE BLADES GENERALLY ON HUMAN BEINGS, OR WE ONLY
CARE ABOUT THE BIRDS?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THAT COULD BE A SUBJECT OF A
DIFFERENT BILL. I LOOK FORWARD TO YOU PUTTING THAT FORWARD, BUT THIS BILL
BEFORE THE HOUSE RELATES TO THE -- THIS PARTICULAR CONCERN. BUT WE, YOU
KNOW, WE ARE HAPPY TO HEAR ABOUT OTHER ISSUES THAT MAYBE SHOULD BE
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SUBJECT TO ANOTHER OR DIFFERENT STUDY, BUT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, A FAIRLY
NARROW BILL AND WHILE SOME OF THE DEBATE MAY HAVE GONE FURTHER
AFIELD, THIS IS A PRETTY BASIC SIMPLE BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE ONE BLADE TO
BE PAINTED BLACK, AND RIGHT NOW IT IS THE SUBJECT OF A STUDY AND WHEN
THERE IS A DETERMINATION EITHER AFTER THAT STUDY OR PERHAPS SOME OTHER
STUDIES BY THE GOVERNMENT, WE MAY SEE AN ACTION BY THE FAA WHICH I
WOULD HOPE WOULD REQUIRE ONE BLADE TO BE PAINTED, BECAUSE I THINK IT
PROBABLY IS HELPFUL.
MS. BYRNES: ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL.
MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU, MS. GLICK. I KNOW YOU
TRIED YOUR BEST. THE -- THE MAIN POINT HERE IS THAT IF THE ISSUE OF THE
COLOR OF THE BLADES IS SO IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE TO PASS A BILL NOW
BEFORE THERE EVEN APPARENTLY IS A DEFINITIVE STUDY THAT'S MADE, THEY'RE
HOPING TO LOOK AT WHAT IT IS IN THE FUTURE POSSIBLY RETROGRADE IF THAT'S
WHAT'S APPROPRIATE IN THE FUTURE, THEN IF IT IS SO IMPORTANT IF LITERALLY
THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BIRDS THAT ARE BEING KILLED AS
MENTIONED IN THE SPONSOR'S MEMO, THEN WE SHOULD NOT BE BUILDING
THESE WIND TURBINES. OBVIOUSLY, THEY'RE DANGEROUS TO WILDLIFE AND I
KNOW HOW MUCH THE MAJORITY CARES ABOUT PRESERVING WILDLIFE IN THIS
AREA SO WE SHOULD BE SUPPORTING OUR WILDLIFE IN EVERY FORM, BE IT BIRD
OR ANY OTHER TYPE. AND ALSO, IF THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THESE THINGS
THEY SHOULD ALSO BE LOOKING AT THE MORATORIUM AND THAT THEY SHOULD
WAIT PENDING THE STUDY TO MAKE SURE WE KNOW HOW TO SAFELY AND
EFFECTIVELY CONSTRUCT WIND TURBINES IN THE FUTURE.
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SO FOR THOSE REASONS AND OTHERS I WILL BE VOTING NO,
MR. SPEAKER. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, AND THANK YOU, MS. GLICK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH.
MR. DIPIETRO.
MR. DIPIETRO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: SURE.
MR. DIPIETRO: THANK YOU, MS. GLICK. YOU MIGHT
HAVE ANSWERED THESE SO REAL QUICKLY. THIS IS ONLY IN NEW YORK,
CORRECT, THIS BILL? IS THIS A NATIONWIDE STUDY GOING ON OR --
MS. GLICK: THIS IS NOT CONGRESS. THIS IS ONLY --
MR. DIPIETRO: JUST US, OKAY.
MS. GLICK: JUST US.
MR. DIPIETRO: IS THIS -- I THINK -- QUITE UNDERSTAND
-- IS THIS RETROACTIVE TO ALL THE TURBINES THAT ARE UP NOW OR IS THIS GOING
-- IF THIS HAPPENS WILL IT BE GOING FORWARD WITH NEW ONES BEING BUILT?
MS. GLICK: THE OFFICE OF RENEWABLE ENERGY SITING
WOULD SET THE STANDARD SO THEY WOULD MAKE THAT DETERMINATION.
MR. DIPIETRO: OKAY. DID THEY -- BECAUSE THERE'S,
I DON'T KNOW, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THERE'S TWO WAYS TO EITHER PAINT
IT OR ACTUALLY MANUFACTURE THE BLADE. DO YOU KNOW THE COST?
MS. GLICK: I DON'T HAVE COST FIGURES BUT I THINK THAT
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IT'S A DE MINIMUS COST IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT
IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN IT'S FIRST MANUFACTURED, SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ALL JUST
SHINY AND THEY HAVE TO PAINT IT WHITE AND IF THEY HAVE TO PAINT IT WHITE,
PAINTING ONE BLACK WOULD NOT SEEM TO BE A DRAMATIC COST CHANGE.
MR. DIPIETRO: AND I'VE GOT A LOT OF WIND TURBINES
IN MY DISTRICT, HUNDREDS. SO IF THIS HAPPENS WHO WILL -- WHO WILL
ACTUALLY PAY? WILL IT BE THE MANUFACTURER? WILL IT BE THE DISTRIBUTOR?
WILL THE TOWNS THAT THESE ARE IN -- WHERE WOULD THE COST GO TO?
MS. GLICK: THIS WOULD -- THIS WOULD CERTAINLY NOT
BE A COST ABSORBED BY THE MUNICIPALITY. THIS WOULD BE BY THE ENERGY
COMPANY AND THAT WOULD BE DETERMINED IF IT HAS TO BE -- YOU KNOW,
WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU'RE PURCHASING YOU CREATE SPECS, SPECIFICATIONS,
AND THE MANUFACTURER IS TO THOSE SPECIFICATIONS. SO I WOULD ASSUME
THAT WITHIN THE PURCHASING DONE BY THE ENERGY COMPANY, I DON'T
BELIEVE THE ENERGY COMPANIES ARE THE MANUFACTURERS. I WOULD ASSUME
THAT THEY WOULD, WITHIN THEIR SPECIFICATION, THEIR CONTRACT, WOULD
SPECIFY THAT THIS COMPLY WITH THIS REGULATION AND THEN THAT'S HOW IT
WOULD BE DONE. BUT IT WOULD CERTAINLY NEVER BE A -- A COST THAT WOULD
BE ASSIGNED TO THE MUNICIPALITY.
MR. DIPIETRO: RIGHT. DOES -- RIGHT NOW WIND
ENERGY IS SUBSIDIZED. WILL THESE BE INCLUDED IN THE SUBSIDY?
MS. GLICK: I -- I JUST THINK THAT THAT'S COMPLETELY,
YOU KNOW, DISTANT FROM THE BILL. I THINK THAT IT IS THE PAINTING OF A
SINGLE BLADE. IT WOULD BE IN THE MANUFACTURER, IT WOULD BE IN THE
ENERGY COMPANY'S SPECIFICATIONS. I DON'T THINK THAT IT CHANGES WHETHER
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SOMETHING IS SUBSIDIZED OR NOT, OR THE DEGREE TO WHICH IT'S SUBSIDIZED
BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A DE MINIMUS COST.
MR. DIPIETRO: OKAY. THERE'S A GROUP FROM --
WHERE I'M FROM IT'S ACTUALLY CALLED CAWTILE, IT STANDS FOR CITIZENS
AGAINST WIND TURBINES IN LAKE ERIE. THAT'S BEEN A HUGE ISSUE UP
WHERE I AM IN MY DISTRICT AND AROUND WESTERN, NEW YORK OBVIOUSLY.
AND I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THAT GROUP. ARE -- ARE -- ARE YOU FAMILIAR
THAT IF -- FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IF THEY PAINT THESE IT'S A DIFFERENT
PAINT THAT THEY WOULD USE ON THE LAND-BASED WIND TURBINES VERSUS THE
ONES THAT WOULD GO IN THE LAKE, AND THE -- THE APPLICATION THAT THEY
WOULD PUT ON THESE IN THE LAKE IS ACTUALLY POSSIBLY TOXIC TO THE WILDLIFE
IN LAKE ERIE OR IN THE LAKES. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT AT ALL?
MS. GLICK: WELL, NOT TO THE DEGREE THAT SOME WHO
HAVE STUDIED THAT, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN PAINT FOR
MARINE APPLICATIONS. AND THAT MAY BE A -- OF A DIFFERENT MAKEUP THAN
WHAT WE WOULD PUT IN OUR LIVING ROOM OR DINING ROOM IF WE WERE
PAINTING, WHICH IS USUALLY AN ACRYLIC LATEX PAINT BUT MARINE
APPLICATIONS DO USE A -- I BELIEVE, USE A DIFFERENT COMPOSITION.
MR. DIPIETRO: THEY DO, OKAY. THAT WAS IT. THANK
YOU, APPRECIATE IT.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.
DIPIETRO.
MR. DIPIETRO: THANK YOU. A NUMBER OF ISSUES
HERE BUT WHY I'M IMPOSED, THIS IS -- THESE ARE ALL SUBSIDIZED. SO
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WHETHER IT'S RETROACTIVE OR NO, T THEY'RE GOING TO BE SUBSIDIZED AND IT'S
GOING TO DRIVE UP COSTS FOR WHAT WE'RE TRYING DO IS LOWER COSTS,
ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT GREEN ENERGY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
ACTUALLY DRIVING UP COSTS. THE COSTS ON THESE TO INSTALL -- IF THEY HAVE
TO ACTUALLY INSTALL A BLADE, SAY A MANUFACTURED BLADE, IS GOING TO BE
WELL OVER ALMOST A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS BY THE TIME THEY MANUFACTURE
IT, GET IT OUT TO THE WIND TURBINE, TAKE ONE OF THOSE BLADES OFF, WHICH IS
VERY EXPENSIVE BECAUSE UP IN MY AREA THOSE ARE 460 FOOT TURBINES,
THEY'RE THE LARGE ONES AND EACH BLADE IS UP APPROXIMATELY OVER 200
FEET FROM WHERE IT'S ATTACHED SO THAT -- THAT TRYING TO GET -- JUST TO GET
UP, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN JUST GET ON A LADDER AND TAKE THAT DOWN. SO THE
COST ON THAT IS WELL OVER A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS, AND WHEN YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT HUNDREDS OF WIND TURBINES, YOU'RE TALKING A LOT, YOU
KNOW, 50- TO $100 MILLION MAYBE OR MORE AND THAT'S GOING TO
OBVIOUSLY DRIVE UP COST. IT'S NOT GOING TO LOWER ANY COSTS TO PUT A
DIFFERENT COLOR BLADE ON.
THE LAKE ERIE ISSUE WHICH WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING FOR
YEARS IS -- IF THEY PUT THOSE IN AND ONE BLADE FALLS IF THEY DO USE THE -- IF
THE PAINT IS THE SPECIALIZED, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE GOING TO SAY IT WON'T
EFFECT THE LAKE, BUT IF IT DOES FALL INTO THE LAKE, IF SOMETHING HAPPENS,
YOU'RE LOOKING AT A CONTAMINATION OF AN UNFATHOMABLE AND OUR GOAL IS
JUST TO KEEP THEM ALL OUT OF LAKE ERIE. SO WITH THAT -- AND THEN I JUST
THOUGHT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, ON A PERSONAL NOTE WHERE I'M VERY
PASSIONATE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE -- WHEN IT'S MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, WE
HAVE MANY ACTIVITIES THAT ARE HARMFUL TO HUMANS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
500,000 OR A MILLION BIRDS KILLED, WE'RE GETTING VERY UPSET ABOUT THAT. I
JUST WANT TO GO BACK THAT THERE'S BEEN OVER 64 MILLION BABIES KILLED.
HUMAN LIFE, NOT ANIMAL LIFE. SO I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: ANDY, I LOOK FORWARD TO IT.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. GLICK. AND I
APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS YOU ALREADY HAD TODAY, AND I WAS CROSSING OFF
MY QUESTIONS AS MY COLLEAGUES ASKED THEM AND YOU ANSWERED THEM
AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
THESE WINDMILL BLADES ARE -- MANY OF THEM ARE HUGE.
I HAVE OFTEN SEEN THEM ON TRACTOR TRAILERS GOING DOWN EXPRESSWAYS
WITH ACTUAL ESCORTS. ARE ALL THE WINDMILL BLADES CURRENTLY PAINTED OR IS
THE COLOR OF THE CURRENT WINDMILLS PART OF THE COMPOSITION OF THE
FIBERGLASS THAT THEY'RE MADE OF?
MS. GLICK: EARLIER I SAID THAT I WAS NOT CERTAIN
WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE AT THE POINT OF MANUFACTURE. ALTHOUGH, WHEN I
WENT TO CLINTON COMMUNITY COLLEGE WHICH INTERESTINGLY HAS A WIND
TURBINE -- A TURBINE CERTIFICATION COURSE, WHAT I OBSERVED WAS AT THAT
TIME LOOKED LIKE IT HAD BEEN PAINTED, BUT I CAN'T TELL YOU WHETHER IT WAS
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
EMBEDDED IN THE MATERIAL OR ON THE SURFACE.
MR. GOODELL: WELL, IF --IF THEY'RE CURRENTLY ALL
PAINTED, THEN THE COST OF PAINTING JUST ONE A DIFFERENT COLOR PRESUMABLY
WOULD NOT IMPOSE A HUGE NEW COST. BUT IF THEY ARE NOT PAINTED THEN
OBVIOUSLY IT IS A -- A POTENTIAL COST. ANY IDEA WHAT IT WOULD COST TO
PAINT A WINDMILL BLADE OF THAT SIZE?
MS. GLICK: AM I DOING IT ON THE WEEKEND AT HOME
OR IS THIS SOMETHING I'M HIRING SOMEONE?
MR. GOODELL: PRESUMABLY WITH A ROLLER.
MS. GLICK: I HAVE NO IDEA. WHAT WOULD YOU
IMAGINE THE COST TO BE?
MR. GOODELL: I -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF PAINT
THEY WOULD USE OR THE TOXICITY OF THE PAINT OR WHETHER THEY WOULD
PRIME IT AND HOW MANY COATS OR HOW OFTEN THEY WOULD NEED TO RECOAT
IT. SO I JUST DON'T KNOW AND I WAS HOPING THAT YOU HAD THAT KNOWLEDGE.
MS. GLICK: WE DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION BEFORE
US, BUT WE'LL BEGIN TO LOOK INTO THAT.
MR. GOODELL: NOW, AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S A
SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF CONTROVERSY OVER THE FLICKER EFFECT OF WINDMILLS
ON HUMAN HEALTH. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SEMINAL ARTICLES INITIALLY
SUGGESTING THAT IF THERE WAS A FREQUENCY ABOVE THREE HERTZ IT POSED
MEASURABLE AND SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON TRIGGERING PHOTOSENSITIVE
EPILEPSY. WILL THE PAINTING OF THE WINDMILLS EXACERBATE THAT OR REDUCE
THAT IMPACT ON HUMANS?
MS. GLICK: I HAVE NO IDEA IF THAT'S PART OF THE
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DESIGN OR WHETHER THERE IS IN FACT, FOR ALL I KNOW THERE IS ALREADY A
STUDY UNDERWAY. THAT WAS NOT WHAT WE WERE LOOKING AT. THIS
PARTICULAR ISSUE WAS FOCUSED ON THE IMPACT ON BIRD LIFE AS OPPOSED TO
HUMAN LIFE. THERE MAY BE STUDIES GOING ON NOW THAT I HAVE NO IDEA
ABOUT.
MR. GOODELL: YOUR MEMO SUPPORT, AS MY
COLLEAGUES NOTED AND CITED, THE U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICES
INDICATED AS MANY AS A HALF A MILLION BIRDS ARE KILLED ANNUALLY WITH
WINDMILLS, AND OF COURSE WE'RE BUILDING MORE AND MORE WINDMILLS
EVERY DAY SO PRESUMABLY THAT NUMBER WILL CONTINUE TO GO UP. TO HELP
ME UNDERSTAND THE PERSPECTIVE OF THAT NUMBER OF BIRDS, A HALF A MILLION
A YEAR, HOW IS THAT COMPARED TO THE NUMBER OF BIRDS THAT ARE KILLED
WITH NEONICOTINOID TREATED SEEDS?
MS. GLICK: I DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION.
MR. GOODELL: DO WE HAVE ANY BIRD MORTALITY
DATA AT ALL ON NEONICOTINOID TREATED SEEDS?
MS. GLICK: I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE IS A DIRECT STUDY
ON THAT -- THAT THE NUMBER OF WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT THERE WAS A --
WE CAN ATTRIBUTE THE NUMBER OF BIRDS DEATHS TO CERTAIN THINGS LIKE
BUILDING STRIKES, GLASS STRIKES AND CATS AND THE LIKE, BUT WE ALSO KNOW
THAT THERE IS A HUGE NUMBER OF I THINK IN THE LAST TEN YEARS IT WAS -- I
DON'T WANT TO MISSPEAK BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THAT IN MY NOTES BUT IT WAS
I THINK THREE BILLION -- 30 BILLION BIRDS IN THE LAST TEN YEARS. AND SO
CLEARLY THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE IMPACTING INCLUDING THINGS LIKE
METHANE FLARES AND THE LIKE THAT IMPACT FLYING CREATURES LIKE BIRDS AND
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BATS.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU AGAIN, MS. GLICK.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: I SHARE THE BILL SPONSOR'S CONCERN
WITH BIRD MORTALITY ABSOLUTELY, AND I THINK BIRDS PLAY A REALLY IMPORTANT
ROLE IN OUR OVERALL ECOSYSTEM, SOMETIMES IT'S A ROLE THAT WE DON'T FULLY
APPRECIATE. AT THE SAME TIME I'M NOT SURE THAT PAINTING ONE BLADE
BLACK IS A BLACK AND WHITE ISSUE. I THINK IT'S MORE DIFFICULT AND I AGREE
WITH MY COLLEAGUES I THINK ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE THAT THIS IS SURELY
A WORTHWHILE AREA TO STUDY. AND THAT STUDY OF COURSE NOT ONLY WANTS TO
EVALUATE THE IMPACT ON BIRDS BUT ALSO NEEDS TO IMPACT -- DISCUSS THE
IMPACT ON FLICKER AND WHETHER OR NOT IT ENHANCES OR REDUCES
PHOTOSENSITIVE EPILEPSY SEIZURES BY PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEAR THESE
WINDMILLS. IT SHOULD -- THAT STUDY SHOULD ANALYZE THE COST-BENEFIT RATIO.
HOW MUCH ARE WE TALKING ABOUT TO PAINT THESE AND ARE WE PAINTING
THESE WINDMILL BLADES WITH TOXIC PAINT, AND IF SO, HOW MUCH AND HOW
OFTEN DO WE HAVE TO REPAINT THEM? AND IT'S NOT JUST A SIMPLE MATTER OF
SPRAYING BLACK PAINT BECAUSE, AS YOU KNOW, WINDMILLS HAVE TO BE VERY
CAREFULLY BALANCED BECAUSE IF THEY'RE OUT OF BALANCE IT DESTROYS THE
WINDMILL ITSELF. SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE CAN PUT SEVERAL HUNDRED POUNDS OF
PAINT ON ONE BLADE AND WATCH TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS. IT'S MUCH MORE
SOPHISTICATED. SO ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES' CONCERN OVER
BIRD MORTALITY, BUT I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE DO THE STUDY FIRST
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BEFORE WE PASS THE LEGISLATION SO THAT WE KNOW THE COST-BENEFIT RATIO
AND WE KNOW THE IMPACT NOT ONLY ON BIRD MORTALITY BUT ON HUMAN
HEALTH AS WELL.
SO FOR THAT REASON, WHILE I APPRECIATE THE INTENT, I
THINK THE BILL MAY BE PREMATURE AND WE SHOULD WAIT FOR THE STUDIES SO
THAT WE KNOW -- SO THAT "WE" KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING WHEN WE PASS
LEGISLATION. THANK YOU, SIR, AND AGAIN THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MR. ARI BROWN.
MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: YES.
MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.
UNFORTUNATELY I'VE BECOME SOMEWHAT OF AN EXPERT IN THIS FIELD OF WIND
TURBINES OVER THE PAST YEAR. ARE YOU AWARE THAT MOST INTERNATIONAL
STUDIES AND MOST COUNTRIES REQUIRE THAT THE BLADES ON THE TURBINE BE
KEPT IN THEIR NATURAL STATE OF WHITE AND/OR PAINTED WHITE FOR THE SPECIFIC
REASON OF AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL VISIBILITY SPECIFICALLY AT NIGHT, THAT'S
INTERNATIONALLY?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THAT HAS BEEN THE CURRENT
CIRCUMSTANCE AND THE STUDY IS -- THERE WAS A STUDY TO DETERMINE IF THERE
WOULD BE A DIFFERENCE. THERE SEEMED TO BE IN A VERY SMALL STUDY A
RATHER DRAMATIC DIFFERENCE IN BIRD STRIKES AND SO THIS -- AT LEAST HERE
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THERE IS THIS OTHER STUDY THAT'S BEING UNDERTAKEN. I HAVE NO IDEA IF THERE
ARE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE SIMILARLY INVESTIGATING ON THEIR PART WHAT
THE CHANGE IN A ONE BLADE OF A TURBINE WOULD DO FOR VISIBILITY.
OBVIOUSLY, THE FAA IS NOT GOING TO AUTHORIZE THIS IF IT HAS A NEGATIVE
IMPACT ON THE ABILITY OF PILOTS TO SEE WIND TURBINES.
MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR. ARE
YOU ALSO AWARE THE REASON WHY THE BLADES ARE NEVER PAINTED BLACK OR A
MONOLITHIC/MONOTONE COLOR, AND POSSIBLY ONLY AN ADDING OF A STRIPE IS
BECAUSE OF THIS VISIBILITY ISSUE AND THERE ISN'T A SINGLE COUNTRY
ANYWHERE THAT EVER PASSED SUCH A THING BECAUSE OF THE DANGER?
MS. GLICK: WELL, ALL I WILL SAY IS THAT THE WIND
INDUSTRY IS IN TERMS OF MOST OF OUR WORK IN RENEWABLE ENERGY NOT OF
LONGSTANDING, BUT I ALSO KNOW THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF WIND
TURBINES THAT ARE BEING EXPLORED, SOME IN A CONICAL CONFIGURATION
WHICH MAY REDUCE BY NATURE OF ITS DESIGN THE ISSUE COMPLETELY, AND
THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT IN THE FUTURE, SMARTER GENERATIONS WILL BE --
WILL CREATE AND WILL POSE NO THREAT EITHER TO AVIATION OR DRAMATICALLY TO
BIRDS.
MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR. ONE
LAST QUESTION, ARE YOU ALSO AWARE THAT THE REASON WHY INTERNATIONALLY
SUGGESTED NOT TO PAINT THE BLADES AND KEEP IT AS MR. GOODELL HAD
SUGGESTED, KEEP IT IN ITS NATURALLY-FORMED LIGHT GRAY PALE OR WHITE
SHADE IS BECAUSE OF THE EXCESSIVE SHEDDING OF THE FIBERGLASS AND OTHER
MATERIALS INTO THE -- INTO THE OCEAN? THE BONDING PROCESS AND THE
CHEMICAL ADHESION OF THE PAINT ONTO THE -- ONTO THE BLADES CAN'T BE
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DONE SIMPLY WITH A LATEX BORNE PAINT WHICH WOULD BE WATER SOLUBLE. IT
WOULD HAVE TO BE, AS MY COLLEAGUE HAD SUGGESTED, SOMETHING TOXIC AND
THE SHEDDING HAS CAUSED IN EVERY STUDY EXCESSIVE DEATHS IN MOST
MARINE LIFE AND THAT'S WHY IT'S ALMOST STRICTLY PROHIBITED EVERYWHERE
INTERNATIONALLY EXCEPT FOR THIS MYSTERIOUS BILL.
MS. GLICK: THIS WHAT?
MR. A. BROWN: THIS UNUSUALLY PROPOSED BILL.
MS. GLICK: WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S -- THE BILL IS
UNUSUAL IN THAT IT'S PROPOSING THAT WE TRY TO REDUCE BIRD STRIKES IN THIS
FASHION. OBVIOUSLY, THE FIRST STUDY WAS IN NORWAY WHICH IS ANOTHER
COUNTRY, AND SO I THINK THAT THERE MAY BE OTHER PLACES AND I'M
FASCINATED BY THE DEEP CONCERN ABOUT TOXIC MATERIALS SINCE WE ARE
CONSTANTLY PUTTING ALL MANNER OF TOXIC MATERIALS IN THE OCEAN. AND IN,
YOU KNOW, ARE YOU AWARE OF THE FACT THAT BY 2050 THERE'LL BE MORE
PLASTIC IN THE OCEAN THAN FISH? SO I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT WE ARE RAISING
THESE ISSUES ABOUT TOXICITY. WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO WORK AS BEST WE CAN
TO REDUCE TOXIC MATERIALS, AND IN FACT RENEWABLE ENERGY OFFERS THAT
POSSIBILITY, BUT EVERYTHING WE DO MAY HAVE SOME DOWNSIDE. THIS MAY
HAVE LESS DOWNSIDE THAN POURING METHANE INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.
MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU MADAM SPONSOR.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. A. BROWN: WHILE I COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON
HER IDEALISTIC APPROACH TO TRY TO SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT, WHEN WE LOOK
AT THIS PARTICULAR BILL IN ITS ENTIRETY IT ACTUALLY HAS THE TOTAL OPPOSITE
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EFFECT AND THAT'S IRREFUTABLE. THE INTERNATIONAL STUDIES, THE
INTERNATIONAL WORLD FORUM WHEN IT COMES TO THESE WIND TURBINES HAS
DETERMINED THAT THIS PROCESS IS DANGEROUS AND HAS NOT BEEN DONE
SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT PUTS PASSENGERS ON PLANES AT RISK. THAT'S WHY IT
SHOULD BE LEFT IN ITS PALE STUDY AND THE SHEDDING OF THE CHEMICALS -- THE
SHEDDING OF THE CHEMICALS HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO DAMAGE AND DESTROY
THE WILDLIFE, AND FOR THAT REASON I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK
YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. GALLAHAN.
MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: YES.
MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU, ASSEMBLYWOMAN
GLICK. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. WHAT PERCENTAGE OF BIRD KILLS WILL THIS
PROCESS ELIMINATE?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE STUDY.
MR. GALLAHAN: AND WHERE CAN I FIND THAT STUDY?
MS. GLICK: IT IS BEING DONE NOW, MR. GALLAHAN.
MR. GALLAHAN: OH, OKAY. SO WE'RE GOING TO
PASS THIS BEFORE THE STUDY. OKAY. SO WHAT ABOUT NIGHTTIME KILLS?
BIRDS OF PREY IN THE EVENING ARE COLORBLIND. I DON'T SEE THAT
ELIMINATING ANY OF THOSE NIGHTTIME KILLS.
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MS. GLICK: NOT EVERYTHING WE DO IS A HUNDRED
PERCENT EFFECTIVE.
MR. GALLAHAN: AND MY LAST QUESTION WOULD BE,
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF BIRD KILLS?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THAT IS NOT FOR ME TO DETERMINE. I
THINK THAT EVERYTHING THAT WE DO IS BALANCED BETWEEN THE POSITIVE
EFFECT AND THE NEGATIVE EFFECT. AND SO IF IN FACT THE ORIGINAL SMALL
STUDY, WHICH DEMONSTRATED A 72 PERCENT REDUCTION IN BIRD STRIKES IS
PROVEN TO BE ACCURATE, THEN I THINK THAT WOULD BE A WORTHY COURSE OF
ACTION TO PURSUE.
MR. GALLAHAN: SO INSTEAD OF 500,000 BIRD KILLS A
YEAR WE WOULD BE HAPPY WITH 150,000 --
MS. GLICK: THAT -- THAT -- YOU KNOW, I WILL TAKE
EXCEPTION TO THE WAY IN WHICH YOU FRAMED THAT FOR THE RECORD.
MR. GALLAHAN: POINT WELL-TAKEN.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. GALLAHAN: YEARS AGO IN THE -- IN THE TUG
HILL AREA THEY PUT UP INITIALLY 177 WINDMILLS, AND A GOOD PORTION OF
THOSE WERE PUT ON A FARMER'S PROPERTY THAT I HUNTED EVERY YEAR. AND
WHEN THEY FIRST WENT UP, I WENT UP AS I ALWAYS DO TO GET PERMISSION TO
HUNT HIS PROPERTY AND I INQUIRED ABOUT THOSE -- THOSE WINDMILLS, AND
INQUIRED ABOUT HIS FARM. AND HE SAID JEFF, I DON'T HAVE TO FARM
ANYMORE. I'VE SOLD ALL MY FARMING EQUIPMENT EXCEPT FOR MY FRONT
LOADER AND MY PLOWS, MY SNOW PLOWS. I'VE BEEN HIRED BY THE -- THE
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ENERGY COMPANY TO TAKE CARE OF THE DRIVEWAYS FOR ALL THESE WINDMILLS.
HE SAID, I HAD -- I HAD TO KEEP MY FRONT LOADER AND MY BACKHOE TO DIG
A HOLE TO PUT ALL THE BIRDS IN BECAUSE I'M IN CHARGE OF PICKING UP ALL THE
BIRDS. SO I ASKED HIM, HOW MANY BIRDS DO YOU GET UNDERNEATH THE
WINDMILL IN A MONTH'S TIME? HE SAID I'VE NEVER TAKEN A COUNT, BUT I
CAN TELL YOU WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR THERE WERE OVER 10,000 BIRDS KILLED BY
THE WINDMILLS ON MY PROPERTY, INCLUDING HAWKS, OWLS AND BALD EAGLES.
SO MY QUESTION TO THE SPONSOR IN REGARDS TO HOW THIS IS GOING TO
REDUCE AND WHAT IS AN ACCEPTABLE LEVEL IS -- IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME
AND WITHOUT KNOWING THAT THROUGH A STUDY THAT HASN'T BEEN COMPLETED
YET, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS BILL. I NEED
MORE INFORMATION ON THIS BILL AND I THINK IT'S PREMATURE. I THINK THAT --
THAT IT'S A -- IT'S A GRAND IDEA. I THINK THAT WE NEED TO LOOK INTO THIS
BECAUSE I'VE WITNESSED IT FIRSTHAND AND BIRD KILLS ARE -- ARE EXCEEDING
WHAT I WOULD EVER DEEM ACCEPTABLE RIGHT NOW. SO WITH (INAUDIBLE),
DOES THE END JUSTIFY THE MEANS? WE DON'T KNOW. AND WE WON'T KNOW
UNTIL THE STUDIES ARE DONE. SO UNTIL THOSE STUDIES ARE DONE AND I HAVE
MORE INFORMATION AND CAN MAKE A REASONABLE ASSUMPTION OF WHAT
WOULD HAPPEN, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
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MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. FOR THE REASONS
MENTIONED BY MY COLLEAGUES, THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY
OPPOSED. THOSE WHO WISH TO SUPPORT IT SHOULD CERTAINLY VOTE YES HERE
ON THE FLOOR OF THE ASSEMBLY. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE
OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW OF OUR COLLEAGUES THAT
WOULD LIKE TO BE AN EXCEPTION, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR
SEATS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. MANKTELOW TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I APPLAUD THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD
BECAUSE I -- I THINK THE GOAL IS VERY ADMIRABLE. OF COURSE WE ALWAYS
WANT TO SAVE BIRDS, ABSOLUTELY. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT ABOUT
AS WE DEBATED THIS JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO WAS ABOUT FOUR TO SIX WEEKS
AGO WE DEBATED AN AMENDMENT TO A BILL THAT WAS PASSED LAST YEAR
CALLED THE BIRDS AND THE BEES BILL IN REGARDS TO NEONICS AND I
REMEMBER ON THIS FLOOR AND WE CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE TRANSCRIPTS,
IT'S THERE, WE TALKED ABOUT SAVING EVERY BIRD AND EVERY BEE. AND MY
COLLEAGUE ASKED THE QUESTION WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE? I GUESS MY QUESTION
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IS IF WE CAN'T GET TO AN ACCESSIBLE NUMBER, IF WE CAN'T STOP THIS, ARE WE
GOING TO PUT THE SAME PRESSURES, ARE WE GOING TO PUT A GOAL OUT THERE OF
2029 THAT IF WE CAN'T STOP THIS, WE'RE GOING TO STOP PUTTING UP
WINDMILLS, WE'RE GOING TO STOP DOING SOLAR PROJECTS BECAUSE IT'S KILLING
BIRDS AND BEES? THAT'S WHAT WE DID TO OUR FARMERS. WE STOPPED IT
UNTIL 2029, THEN SOMETHING'S GOT TO CHANGE. ARE WE GOING TO KEEP THE
PLAYING FIELD LEVEL HERE? WE TALK ABOUT EQUITY, WE TALK ABOUT FAIRNESS,
WE TALK ABOUT DOING THINGS ACROSS THE BOARD. SO IF THAT'S THE CASE LET'S
DO IT BOTH WAYS. ON ONE HAND IF WE'RE GOING TO HOLD OUR FARMERS
ACCOUNTABLE, THEN WE BETTER HOLD THESE POWER PRODUCERS ACCOUNTABLE
AS WELL.
SO I WILL BE VOTING NO, AND AS A COUPLE OF MY
COLLEAGUES SAID, DOES THE END JUSTIFY THE MEANS? I GO BACK TO MY
ASSEMBLY PARTNER OVER HERE WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT THE CHILDREN IN THE
CONGO. IT JUST BRINGS BACK TO DOES IT REALLY JUSTIFY THE MEANS? SO
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER AND I'LL BE VOTING NO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MANKTELOW IN
THE NEGATIVE.
MR. LAVINE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. LAVINE: (MIC CUT OUT) THIS STRAIGHTFORWARD BILL
WHICH SIMPLY SAYS THAT THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE WIND TURBINES OUGHT TO
INCLUDE CONSIDERATION FOR THE BEST COLOR FOR THE BLADES TO BE TO
MINIMIZE BIRDS DEATHS. UNSURPRISINGLY, THERE'S BEEN RESISTANCE TO THIS
STRAIGHTFORWARD BILL AND IT'S NO SURPRISE BECAUSE THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY
AND ONE OF OUR POLITICAL PARTIES HAS DECIDED TO CONDUCT A WAR ON
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RENEWABLE ENERGY. THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, TWO-THIRDS, SUPPORT
GREEN ENERGY. AND I'M PLEASED TO REPORT THAT AMERICA'S FIRST
LARGE-SCALE OFFSHORE WIND PROJECT HAS JUST BEEN COMPLETED OFF THE
SHORES OF LONG ISLAND, IT'S THE SOUTH FORK WIND PROJECT WHICH WILL
PRODUCE 130 MEGAWATTS OF POWER AND ENOUGH TO POWER 70,000 HOMES,
70,000 HOME REPRESENTS 15 PERCENT, 1-5 PERCENT OF THE HOMES ON LONG
ISLAND. THIS IS THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT OUR PLANET IS
HEATING UP. EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT. EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN
SCIENCE UNDERSTANDS THAT. SO WE EITHER CONFRONT GLOBAL HEATING OR WE
ALL PERISH. WE DON'T WANT THAT. SO I'M VERY PLEASED TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF
THIS -- OF THIS BILL. AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO SAY THIS VERY SIMPLY, WE EITHER
CONFRONT AND MASTER GLOBAL HEATING OR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US PERISHES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF WE COULD
NOW TURN OUR ATTENTION TO CALENDAR NO. 349, IT'S ON PAGE 27. IT IS BY
MS. LUNSFORD ON DEBATE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07494-B, CALENDER
NO. 349, LUNSFORD, STIRPE, SHIMSKY, ARDILA, MCMAHON, BRONSON,
LAVINE, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, DICKENS, SIMON, BURDICK, SAYEGH,
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LEVENBERG. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND THE
AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING ALLERGEN LABELING
FOR PREPACKAGED FOODS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS
REQUESTED.
MS. LUNSFORD: THIS BILL ALL STARTED BY SAYING IS
RESPONSIVE TO AN ISSUE I ENCOUNTERED MYSELF. MY THEN THREE-YEAR-OLD
SON WAS EATING COOKIES FROM A BAKERY THAT WE FREQUENTED ALL THE TIME
FROM A MIXED COLLECTION OF COOKIES WE PURCHASED A LOT AND HE FOUND
HIMSELF ACCIDENTLY INGESTING WALNUTS. I, MYSELF, CHECKED THE LABELED
ON THIS BOX, IT DID NOT SAY THAT ANY OF THE COOKIES CONTAINED NUTS. I
MYSELF EVEN SAMPLED THE COOKIE, NOT KNOWING IT CONTAINED GROUND
WALNUTS. MY SON HAS ANAPHYLAXIS REACTIONS TO WALNUTS. HE HAS A
NUMBER OF FOOD ALLERGIES WHICH IS NOT UNCOMMON. MOST KIDS WITH
FOOD ALLERGIES ARE ALLERGIC TO MORE THAN ONE FOOD. AND THIS INCIDENT
SENT MY THREE-YEAR-OLD TO THE HOSPITAL IN AN AMBULANCE. HE HAD TO GET
AN EPIPEN SHOT AT HOME. HE HAD TO GET TWO MORE SHOTS AT THE HOSPITAL
AND ON TOP OF THE TERROR THAT HE FELT AND THAT I FELT, WE ALSO HAD A HIGH
DEDUCTIBLE INSURANCE PLAN AND THIS COST ME $3,500. THE PURPOSE OF
THIS BILL IS TO ENSURE THAT THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN TO ANY OTHER FAMILIES.
THIS BILL REQUIRES THAT ESTABLISHMENTS LIKE SUPERMARKETS, DELIS AND
BAKERIES THAT PREPACKAGE THEIR OWN FOOD FOR SALE SIMPLY PUT A LABEL ON
THE PREPACKAGED CONTAINER THAT STATES IF IT CONTAINS ANY OF THE MAJOR
FOOD ALLERGENS THAT ARE DESCRIBED BY THE FDA.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. JENSEN.
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MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LUNSFORD, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MS. LUNSFORD: I WILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LUNSFORD YIELDS,
SIR.
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. -- MS.
LUNSFORD. SO WITH THIS LEGISLATION, CERTAINLY NOBODY HERE, MYSELF
INCLUDED, WANTS ANY FAMILY TO GO THROUGH A SIMILAR SITUATION THAT YOU
AND YOUR SON WENT THROUGH AND PROBABLY COUNTLESS PEOPLE IN THE STATE
HAVE TO DEAL WITH EVERY YEAR. BUT IN THIS LEGISLATION, I THINK THERE'S
SOME CONFUSION ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT THE REQUIREMENT IS ON THE
SUPERMARKETS, DELIS, BAKERIES WOULD HAVE TO DO. THE WAY THE BILL IS
WRITTEN, WOULD THEY HAVE TO LIST EVERY INGREDIENT THAT IS IN THAT
PREPACKAGED THING; COOKIE, SANDWICH, PISTACHIO CREAM PUFF, WHATEVER
IT MAY BE?
MS. LUNSFORD: NO, THEY WOULD ONLY NEED TO LABEL
THE MAJOR ALLERGENS. THE WAY THE BILL READS SAYS THAT THEY MUST HAVE A
DESCRIPTION OF ALL INGREDIENTS AND LABELS FOR MAJOR FOOD ALLERGENS. SO
IF IT WERE TO CONTAIN SAY PEANUT BRITTLE, YOU MIGHT SAY IT CONTAINS
PEANUTS. IF IT CONTAINS FLOUR, YOU MIGHT SAY FLOUR, PARENTHESIS, WHEAT.
BUT IT WOULD ONLY NEED TO CONTAIN THOSE INGREDIENTS ON THE LABEL THAT
WERE REPRESENTED BY THE FDA AS MAJOR FOOD ALLERGENS.
MR. JENSEN: AND I THINK IN THAT CONTEXT, I THINK
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THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE, BUT WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT THE
DRAFTING OF THE LEGISLATIVE LANGUAGE IS INCONSISTENT WITH YOUR LEGISLATIVE
INTERPRETATION OF WHAT IT SAYS. BECAUSE CERTAINLY WHAT IT SAYS ON PAGE
2, STARTING AT LINE 37, IDENTIFYING ALL INGREDIENTS AND LABELING FOR MAJOR
FOOD ALLERGENS. I READ THAT AS SAYING THAT YOU HAVE TO LIST ALL THE
INGREDIENTS AND LABEL THE MAJOR FOOD ALLERGENS. THAT IT'S BOTH THINGS,
NOT THE INGREDIENTS THAT ARE THE FOOD ALLERGENS. SO I THINK SOME OF THE
ISSUE THAT WE HAD WHEN THIS CAME BEFORE THE HEALTH COMMITTEE, IS AN
INCONSISTENCY IN THE DRAFTING OF THE LEGISLATION.
MS. LUNSFORD: I DON'T THINK IT'S AN INCONSISTENCY
AS MUCH AS A AMBIGUOUS INTERPRETATION THAT I UNDERSTAND WHY THAT
WOULD READ THAT WAY POTENTIALLY SO I'M GLAD WE'RE HAVING THIS
CONVERSATION WHERE WE CAN CLEAR THIS UP ON THE FLOOR. THAT THIS SHOULD
BE READ AS ALL INGREDIENTS AND LABELING FOR MAJOR FOOD ALLERGENS.
MR. JENSEN: AND I KNOW THIS BILL WAS AMENDED
FROM WHEN IT WAS IN THE HEALTH COMMITTEE WHERE PREVIOUSLY IT WAS A
THREE MONTH EFFECTIVE DATE THAT GOT EXTENDED TO A YEAR AND I THINK IT
MAKES IT A BETTER BILL. AND I THINK IT'S WORTH WITH THIS THE SAME AS IN
THE SENATE NOT MOVING IT, THAT IT MAY BE WORTH SOME SORT OF
AMENDMENT BEFORE GOING TO THE GOVERNOR TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS NO
CONFUSION MOVING FORWARD.
IN THE CONTEXT OF THE IMPLEMENTATION, WAS THERE ANY
THOUGHT TO THE BURDEN THAT THIS MAY PLACE ON SMALLER BUSINESSES IF THEY
MAY NOT HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TO LABEL THESE THINGS? A SMALL MOM AND
POP DELI IN A VERY SMALL COMMUNITY, THAT THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE THE
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TECHNOLOGY AND EQUIPMENT TO ACTUALLY FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE LABELING.
MS. LUNSFORD: SO I DID HAVE EXTENSIVE
CONVERSATIONS WITH THE BUSINESS COUNCIL AND WITH OTHER VARIOUS
SMALLER RETAILERS EVEN NOT SO SMALL, YOUR STEWART'S, YOU KNOW, NOT
GIGANTIC SUPERMARKETS, AND THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WE DECIDED TO
EXTEND THE EFFECTIVE DATE TO GIVE PEOPLE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO ADOPT
THE TECHNOLOGY THEY NEED. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YOUR WEGMANS, YOUR
TOPS, THEY ALL HAVE INGREDIENT PRINTERS. THIS IS A PRETTY COMMON
MECHANISM, EVEN 7-ELEVENS FOR THE MOST PART. BUT ALL THAT WOULD BE
REQUIRED IS A SIMPLE LABEL THAT COULD FRANKLY BE PRINTED OUT ON A HOME
PRINTER THAT JUST SAYS, YOU KNOW, CONTAINS WHEAT, CONTAINS MILK. IT
DOESN'T NEED TO BE A BIG LONG THING. SO LET'S SAY YOU'RE A BODEGA AND
YOU REGULARLY CREATE PREPACKAGED SAY BREAKFAST SANDWICHES, YOU COULD
SAY HEY, HERE'S A BIG PILE THAT CONTAINS EGGS STICKER AND YOU COULD JUST
HAVE THAT FOR YOUR EMPLOYEES AS THEY MAKE THOSE SANDWICHES TO POP
RIGHT ON TOP.
MR. JENSEN: SO I'M THINKING ABOUT THEIR SUB.
MS. LUNSFORD: WE'RE ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT THEIR
SUB.
MR. JENSEN: WELL, THAT IS THE WORLD'S GREATEST
SUPERMARKET SO IT DOES MAKE SENSE. BUT I THINK OF WEGMANS IN
ORDERING A SUB AND WALKING UP TO THE SUB COUNTER, IF I WERE TO ORDER A
SUB, YOU KNOW, A TURKEY SUB AND I WOULD SEE THEM MAKE IT, I KNOW
WHAT'S IN IT. IF I WALK FIVE FEET ACROSS FROM THAT, I CAN GET A PRE-MADE
TURKEY SUB. WOULDN'T WE STILL BE ABLE TO FULFILL THE SAME PURPOSE BY
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HAVING THE RETAILER TO HAVE A LIST OF ALLERGENS THAT ARE IN SOME OF THEIR
MOST COMMON PREPACKAGED DISHES SO THAT WEGMANS, FOR INSTANCE, FOR
THEIR ROLLS, IT WOULD HAVE A LIST THAT WOULD BE AT THE SUB COUNTER AND
THEY WOULD SAY OKAY, THIS IS WHAT'S IN OUR SEEDED EVERYTHING ROLL. SO
THAT WAY WHEN SOMEBODY WHO DOES HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT WHEAT ALLERGY
OR SOME OTHER ALLERGY COULD WALK UP AND SAY HEY, I JUST WANT TO SEE
WHAT YOUR -- YOUR ALLERGY INGREDIENT LIST IS FOR THIS ROLL. INSTEAD OF
HAVING TO MARK EVERY SINGLE TURKEY SUB THAT THEY MAKE AND PUT OUT IN A
PREPACKAGED SETTING.
MS. LUNSFORD: THIS IS REALLY DESIGNED FOR EASE OF
THE CONSUMER AND TO ENSURE THAT NOTICES ARE READILY APPARENT. YOU,
LIKE ME, HAVE SMALL CHILDREN. YOU'VE BEEN TO THE SUPERMARKET, THE
IDEA OF HAVING TO WALK UP TO THE WEGMANS SUB COUNTER ON SAY A BUSY
SATURDAY AFTERNOON WHERE THERE'S A LINE OF SEVEN OR EIGHT PEOPLE LONG
TO ORDER SUBS TO SAY HI, EXCUSE ME, IF I COULD JUST -- IF I COULD JUST GET
THE -- IT BECOMES VERY BURDENSOME FOR SOME PEOPLE AND I KNOW THAT
BUSY PARENTS OFTEN DON'T HAVE TIME. AS SOMEONE WHO HAS TO LOOK AT
FOOD LABELS, I CAN TELL YOU IT'S AN ONEROUS PROCESS AND I'M FRUSTRATED
FREQUENTLY WHEN I CAN'T TELL IF SOMETHING CONTAINS SESAME OR TREE NUTS
OR WHICH TREE NUTS, BECAUSE MY SON IS ALLERGIC TO SOME TREE NUTS AND
NOT OTHER TREE NUTS. SO IT IS JUST VERY BURDENSOME FOR PARENTS AND FOR
PEOPLE WHO -- I MEAN THERE'S ALMOST 2 MILLION NEW YORKERS WHO HAVE
FOOD ALLERGIES. PEOPLE CARRY EPIPENS AROUND WITH THEM EVERYDAY. SO
THIS IS TO ENSURE EASE FOR THE CONSUMER AND TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE
AREN'T BEING ACCIDENTALLY EXPOSED TO THINGS THAT CAN KILL THEM.
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MR. JENSEN: WELL, THAT'S -- I THINK THAT'S A LAUDABLE
GOAL. I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR ARGUING THAT WE SHOULD DO THINGS TO KILL
PEOPLE BUT JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY FORWARD. AND I DIDN'T
SEE IT IN THIS LEGISLATION BUT IS THERE ANYTHING THAT SPEAKS TO THE
STANDARDIZATION OF WHAT THAT ALLERGEN STICKER WOULD HAVE TO BE? WOULD
IT HAVE TO BE A LIST OF WORDS? COULD THEY PUT A PICTURE OF A WALNUT ON
AN ORANGE CIRCLE AND STICK THAT ON, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A CHICKEN FOR AN
EGG? LIKE IS THERE A STANDARDIZED --
MS. LUNSFORD: I BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE NOTORIOUSLY
CHALLENGED WHEN IT COMES TO ID'ING SKETCHES OF NUTS, SO WE ARE GOING
TO JUST GOING TO USE THE STANDARDS THAT ARE ALREADY PRESCRIBED BY THE
FDA, WHICH SIMPLY SAY THAT IT NEEDS TO EITHER SAY CONTAINS, COLON, OR
WHATEVER THE ALLERGENS ARE OR AN INGREDIENTS LIST. YOU MAY CHOOSE TO
PUT AN ENTIRE INGREDIENTS LIST ON YOUR PRODUCT, AND THEN IT WOULD JUST
NEED TO SPECIFY. IN THE EVENT THAT THE -- THE ALLERGEN WAS PART OF A
PRODUCT LIKE LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE IT WAS A MIXED FLOUR, AND SOME OF
THAT FLOUR WAS RICE AND SOME OF THAT FLOUR WAS WHEAT, YOU WOULD NEED
TO SPECIFY THAT AS PART OF WHAT THE FLOUR CONTAINED, BUT ALL OF THAT IS PER
THE REGULAR LABELING GUIDELINES THE FDA ALREADY PUTS OUT.
MR. JENSEN: SO -- AND THIS MAY BE A SILLY QUESTION
BUT FOR -- WHEN IT'S VERY OBVIOUS THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD FALL
IN THE FDA LIST. I'LL USE THE WALNUT EXAMPLE THAT YOU BROUGHT UP
EARLIER, THAT IF IT'S A CHOCOLATE AND WALNUT COOKIE, THAT'S WHAT IT'S
LABELED AS, BEING SOLD AS, WOULD THEY STILL HAVE TO PUT THE LABEL THAT
THERE IS WALNUTS ON THIS EVEN IF IT ALREADY SAYS IT'S A CHOCOLATE AND
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WALNUT COOKIE?
MS. LUNSFORD: THAT IS THE FDA REQUIREMENT. I
BELIEVE THAT THIS -- THE SPIRIT OF THIS LAW WOULD REQUIRE THAT. HOWEVER,
CONSIDERING THAT THE PENALTIES FOR THIS ARE AT THE DISCRETION OF THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH IN A SITUATION WHERE IT WAS VERY, VERY EVIDENT
LIKE THAT WHERE THE TITLE OF IT WAS, YOU KNOW PISTACHIO CREME BRULEE OR
WHAT HAVE YOU, THAT THAT MAY BE SUFFICIENT TO AVOID A PENALTY. BUT I
WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO CONTINUE FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES TO LABEL
EVERYTHING (INAUDIBLE).
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.
LUNSFORD.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: ON THE BILL.
MR. JENSEN: I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR ASKING OR
ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. I DO BELIEVE EVEN AFTER OUR CONVERSATION THAT
THE LEGISLATION SHOULD BE AMENDED TO ELIMINATE ANY UNCLEAR
COMPONENTS OF IT ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAVE TO BE LABELED IN THE EVENT THIS
DOES BECOMES LAW. ADDITIONALLY, I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE BURDEN WE
WOULD PLACE ON SOME OF OUR SMALLER BUSINESSES IN THE STATE. YOU
KNOW, I THINK THERE'S A WAY TO DO THIS THAT STILL ALLOWS FAMILIES AND
INDIVIDUALS TO KNOW WHAT ALLERGENS MIGHT BE IN PREPACKAGED FOOD
ITEMS WITHOUT HAVING TO LABEL EACH FOOD ITEM INDIVIDUALLY EVERY TIME
THEY CREATE IT.
SO ONCE AGAIN, I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S ANSWERS.
BUT I THINK THERE'S A POTENTIALLY BETTER WAY THAT WE COULD GO ABOUT THIS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?
MS. LUNSFORD: OF COURSE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. HOW DOES THIS
COMPARE TO THE FOOD ALLERGEN LABELING AND CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT
OF 2004, THAT'S THE FEDERAL ACT.
MS. LUNSFORD: IT REMAINS CONSISTENT, BUT THERE
ARE CERTAIN PRODUCERS THAT ARE EXEMPT FROM THAT WHEN THEY MAKE
PREPACKAGED FOOD IN THE SCENARIO. THIS WOULD ACTUALLY JUST TAKE THOSE
DELIS, SUPERMARKETS, YOU KNOW, SMALL GROCERY STORES AND ADD THEM TO
THAT ACT SO IT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE REQUIREMENTS AS IT PERTAINS
TO MAJOR ALLERGEN (INAUDIBLE).
MR. GOODELL: AND WOULD A SMALL DELI,
SUPERMARKET, OR THOSE OTHER SMALL BUSINESSES THAT YOU MENTIONED, MEET
THE CRITERIA OF THIS LAW IF THEY HAD A PREPRINTED WARNING THAT THEY JUST
SLAPPED ON AND SAID WARNING, THIS PROJECT -- PRODUCT MAY CONTAIN MILK,
EGGS, WHEAT, TREE NUTS OR OTHER ALLERGENS?
MS. LUNSFORD: NO. AND ACTUALLY THAT'S PART OF
WHY I BRING THIS BILL UP, BECAUSE VIRTUALLY EVERY PRODUCT IN A BAKERY
COMES INTO CONTACT WITH NUTS. SO VIRTUALLY EVERY BAKERY USES NUTS IN
SOMETHING. VIRTUALLY EVERY BAKERY USES EGGS OR MILK AND MANY PEOPLE
ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT TRACE CONTAMINATION. THIS WAS THE ISSUE THAT
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
HAPPENED TO ME. THE COOKIES THAT MY SON ROUTINELY ATE CAME FROM
THIS PACKAGE AND IT SAID MADE IN A FACILITY THAT PROCESSES NUTS AND MILK
AND EGGS BUT THAT WAS INSUFFICIENT TO DESCRIBE THE MADE OF GROUND
WALNUTS COOKIE THAT MY SON ATE. SO THIS IS TO ENSURE SPECIFICITY THAT
THIS MAY NOT JUST HAVE TRACE CONTAMINATION, IT'S NOT JUST BEING IN A
BUILDING, IT'S NOT JUST THAT WE SOMETIMES PUT NUTS IN THIS BUT THIS TIME
WE DIDN'T. THIS PARTICULAR PRODUCT CONTAINS A MAJOR ALLERGEN.
MR. GOODELL: AND SO WOULD YOU ENVISION THAT
THESE SMALL BUSINESSES WOULD HAVE TO ACTUALLY MEASURE IN ANY WAY
HOW MUCH MILK, EGG, FISH, SHELLFISH, TREE NUTS, SWEETS, PEANUTS, SESAME
OR SOYBEAN WAS IN THEIR PRODUCT?
MS. LUNSFORD: NO, SO LONG AS IT CONTAINED ANY OF
THOSE MAJOR ALLERGENS AS AN INGREDIENT. THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY ADDED TO
THE PRODUCT AS A PREPARATION OR LET'S SAY YOU'RE USING ROLLS YOU DIDN'T
BAKE. YOU CAN LOOK AT THE INGREDIENTS ON THOSE PRE-MADE ROLLS,
PRESUMABLY MADE OF WHEAT AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO INCLUDE THAT AS
WELL.
MR. GOODELL: SO THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE JUST TO
MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND BETWEEN THIS AND THE FEDERAL LABELING
REQUIREMENT IS THIS SUPPLIES -- THIS BILL WOULD APPLY TO MOM AND POP
SMALL DELIS, FOLKS THAT MAKE SUBS, SELL THEM AT GROCERY STORES THINGS
LIKE THAT AND THE FEDERAL LABELING ONLY APPLIES TO FOOD MANUFACTURERS?
MS. LUNSFORD: YES.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE.
MS. LUNSFORD: SO THIS IS ONLY FOR FOOD THAT IS
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PACKAGED, PREPARED, PREPACKAGED AND SOLD ON THE PREMISES.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS.
MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 365TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: A PARTY VOTE HAS BEEN
REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED BY MY
COLLEAGUE, BUT SOME OF US MAY WANT TO SUPPORT IT FOR THE REASONS
MENTIONED BY OUR OTHER COLLEAGUES. THOSE WHO WISH TO SUPPORT IT
SHOULD VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE
OF LEGISLATION.
ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. LUNSFORD TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. LUNSFORD: I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR
ALLOWING ME TO BRING THIS BILL TO THE FLOOR. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A VERY
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PERSONAL BILL TO ME. THE EVENTS OF THAT DAY CONTINUE TO HAUNT MY SON.
HE'S VERY, VERY CONCERNED ABOUT ALLERGEN EXPOSURE NOW GETTING POKED
WITH A NUMBER OF NEEDLES WILL DO THAT TO YOU. BUT THIS IS A BILL THAT I
THINK IS GOING TO GENUINELY SAVE LIVES. IT'S GOING TO CERTAINLY ENSURE
BETTER HEALTHCARE OUTCOMES FOR MILLIONS OF NEW YORKERS WHO SUFFER
FROM FOOD ALLERGIES AND I JUST WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO APPRECIATE ALL
-- THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE SUPPORTING IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: MR. MEEKS TO EXPLAIN
HIS VOTE.
MR. MEEKS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'D LIKE TO
COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON THIS BILL. I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE A QUOTE AND
IT'S FROM THE GOSPEL ARTIST YOLANDA ADAMS AND IT'S TITLED WHAT ABOUT
THE CHILDREN. WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN TO IGNORE IS SO EASY. SO MANY
INNOCENT CHILDREN WOULD CHOOSE THE WRONG WAY. SO WHAT ABOUT THE
CHILDREN. REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE CHILDREN. AND IF NOT FOR THOSE WHO
LOVED US AND WHO CARED ENOUGH TO SHOW US, WHERE WOULD WE BE TODAY.
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR AS A MOTHER BECAUSE THERE'S
CERTAIN EXPERIENCES THAT YOU CAN RELATE TO THAT ME AS A FATHER I JUST
COULD NOT RELATE TO. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR ADVOCATING FOR NOT JUST
YOUR JOB BUT RECOGNIZING THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU EXPERIENCE AS A
MOTHER AND ADVOCATING FOR ALL THE CHILDREN IN NEW YORK STATE AND THIS
TYPE OF LEGISLATION IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY AND MAYBE ONE DAY IT WILL
BE A NATIONAL LAW TO ENSURE THAT WE ALL KNOW ACROSS THIS COUNTRY THE
INGREDIENTS THAT WE ARE SHARING WITH OUR CHILDREN. THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I, TOO, WOULD LIKE TO
COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. YOU KNOW, VERY
OFTEN AS PARENTS WHEN WE'RE RAISING OUR CHILDREN, WE HAVE EXPERIENCES
THAT ALMOST SHAKE US TO OUR CORE WHEN YOU HAVE TO RUSH YOUR BABY OFF
TO THE HOSPITAL. IT'S JUST -- IT HAD TO BE VERY HURTFUL PROCESS FOR HER TO
GO TO -- THROUGH, BUT FOR HER TO COME THROUGH THAT REALIZING THAT OTHER
PEOPLE COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM, SHOULD SHE NOT BE
WILLING TO DO SOMETHING SPEAKS VOLUMES TO HER CHARACTER AND HER
DESIRE TO SEE THAT NO OTHER MOTHER OR PARENT HAS TO EVER SEE THEIR
CHILDREN GO THROUGH AN EXPERIENCE OF ENJOYING THE COOKIE THAT THEY
LIKE NOT KNOWING THAT IT HAD WALNUTS IN IT. SO I REALLY WANT TO THANK
HER FOR HER WORK HERE AND I'M PLEASED TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU
HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE HAVE A PIECE OF
HOUSEKEEPING.
ON A MOTION BY MS. HUNTER, PAGE 17, CALENDAR NO.
142, BILL NO. 85073, AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND ADOPTED.
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NYS ASSEMBLY APRIL 3, 2024
WE HAVE SEVERAL OTHER FINE RESOLUTIONS, WE WILL TAKE
THEM UP WITH ONE VOTE.
ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING
AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.
(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 1065-1070
WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: I NOW MOVE THAT THE
ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT 10:30 A.M.
TUESDAY, APRIL THE 4TH, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE ASSEMBLY STANDS
ADJOURNED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THURSDAY -- THURSDAY --
THURSDAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THURSDAY.
(WHEREUPON, AT 5:39 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD
ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY, APRIL 4TH AT 10:30 A.M., TUESDAY BEING A
SESSION DAY.)
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