WEDNESDAY, JUNE 21, 2023 10:27 A.M.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME

TO ORDER.

IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

SILENCE.

(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE

OF ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, JUNE 20TH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO

DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, JUNE THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

20TH AND ASK THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

ORDERED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR.

COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS, I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE

A QUOTE WITH YOU TODAY. THIS ONE COMES FROM SOMEONE WE ALL KNOW

OF HIS WORK AND CAREER AND GREAT THINGS HE'S DONE IN OUR SOCIETY, IT'S

NONE OTHER THAN REVEREND DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING. HIS WORDS, THERE IS

NO WORK IS INSIGNIFICANT. ALL LABOR THAT UPLIFTS HUMANITY HAS DIGNITY

AND IMPORTANCE AND SHOULD BE TAKEN -- UNDERTAKEN WITH PAINSTAKINGLY

[SIC] EXCELLENCE. AGAIN, THESE WORDS FROM DR. KING, AND THIS IS

GENERALLY WHAT WE DO HERE, MR. SPEAKER, IS IT TAKES A LOT OF PAIN

SOMETIMES BUT WE GET THROUGH IT.

SO COLLEAGUES SHOULD NOTICE YOU HAVE ON YOUR DESKS A

MAIN CALENDER, YOU ALSO HAVE A DEBATE LIST. AND AFTER YOU'VE DONE ANY

HOUSEKEEPING OR INTRODUCTIONS, MR. SPEAKER, WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN

WORKING ON THAT DEBATE LIST. WE'RE GOING TO START WITH CALENDAR NO. 88

BY MR. WEPRIN; FOLLOWED BY RULES REPORT NO. 403 BY MS. SOLAGES;

AND THEN RULES REPORT NO. 215 BY MS. GLICK. AT SOME POINT TODAY

THERE'S GOING TO BE A RULES COMMITTEE CALLED AND THAT COMMITTEE IS

GOING TO PRODUCE ADDITIONAL CALENDARS OF WHICH WE WILL PROBABLY BE

TAKEN UP TODAY. THERE WILL PROBABLY BE OTHER ADDITIONAL FLOOR

ANNOUNCEMENTS AS WE PROCEED; HOWEVER, MR. SPEAKER, THAT'S THE

GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE AT TODAY AT THIS MOMENT. IF YOU HAVE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

INTRODUCTIONS OR HOUSEKEEPING NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. NO

HOUSEKEEPING BUT WE DO HAVE A INTRODUCTION BY MR. GIBBS.

MR. GIBBS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TODAY

TO MAKE AN INTRODUCTION OF A GREAT ORGANIZATION, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY

OF A GREAT YOUNG MAN FROM MY COMMUNITY, MR. ANTONIO RIVERA AND

HIS FAMILY AND FRIENDS FROM SOUTH KOREA ON IT THAT SOUTH KOREA

DELEGATION TOOK THE TRIP UP TO ALBANY THIS AFTERNOON JUST TO SEE THE

WORK THAT WE DO HERE. THEY DO A LOT OF WORK IN OUR COMMUNITY AND

OUR DISTRICT AND I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE STARTING WITH MY DEAR FRIEND

MR. ANTONIO RIVERA, JR. WHO IS THE PRESIDENT OF HUG -- WORLD HUG

FOUNDATION. HE'S JOINED BY -- HE'S JOINED BY ANGELA RIVERA, MEMBER

OF THE WORLD HUG FOUNDATION. HE'S ALSO JOINED BY JOANNA KIL, CHAIR

OF THE WORLD HUG FOUNDATION, AS WELL AS KANG-CHUN LEE, DIRECTOR OF

THE WORLD HUG FOUNDATION; DAE-CHEON SEO, ASIA REPRESENTATIVE, ALSO

THE WORLD HUG FOUNDATION DIRECTOR, THE INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL OF

ACADEMY. WE ALSO HAVE LAUREN YEHWA SEO, ASIA STUDENT

REPRESENTATIVE, WORLD HUG FOUNDATION, MEMBER ALSO OF THE

INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL ACADEMY AND THEN WE HAVE YOUNSOO AHN

MEMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL ACADEMY; HYERAN KIM, MEMBER

OF THE INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL ACADEMY. ALSO, SOO-YEON YOO MEMBER

OF THE INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL ACADEMY, AND THEN WE HAVE JOHN PARK,

WHO IS ALSO A MEMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL ACADEMY.

MR. SPEAKER, I ASK THAT YOU PLEASE EXTEND MY DEAR

FRIENDS FROM EAST HARLEM AND AS WELL AS SOUTH KOREA THE CORDIALITY OF

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THIS GREAT CHAMBER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF

OF MR. GIBBS, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU HERE

TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE

FLOOR. OUR THANKS FOR COMING AND SHARING WHAT WE HOPE WILL BE OUR

LAST DAY IN SESSION THIS YEAR. WE HOPE THAT YOU ENJOY THE PROCESS. WE

HOPE THAT THE GREAT WORK OF YOUR ORGANIZATION WILL CONTINUE AND KNOW

THAT YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME HERE IN THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY,

THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE. CONGRATULATIONS. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

(APPLAUSE)

ON DEBATE: PAGE 20, CALENDAR NO. 88, THE CLERK WILL

READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04668-B, CALENDAR

NO. 88, WEPRIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

USING DRIVING HISTORY AS A RATING OR UNDERWRITING FACTOR FOR PRIVATE

PASSENGER MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

WEPRIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 403, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. S00405, RULES REPORT

NO. 403, PARKER (SOLAGES, L. ROSENTHAL, THIELE, SIMON, COLTON, OTIS,

LUPARDO, SANTABARBARA, SHRESTHA, KELLES, EPSTEIN --A7165) AN ACT TO

AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO UTILITY INTERVENOR

REIMBURSEMENT; AND TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

ESTABLISHING THE UTILITY INTERVENOR ACCOUNT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES, AN

EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.

MS. SOLAGES: SO NOW MORE THAN EVER RESIDENTIAL

AND SMALL BUSINESS UTILITY CUSTOMERS NEED AN EQUAL SEAT AT THE

NEGOTIATING TABLE IN MATTERS THAT AFFECT AFFORDABILITY -- AFFORDABILITY AND

RELIABILITY UTILITY SERVICES. AND SO THIS LEGISLATION WOULD ALLOW

NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS OR GROUPS OF INDIVIDUALS THAT REPRESENT THE

INTEREST OF A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF RESIDENTS OR SMALL BUSINESS UTILITY

CUSTOMERS TO APPLY FOR REIMBURSEMENT OF REASONABLE FEES AND OTHER

COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH PARTICIPATING AND UTILITY RATE CASES AND OTHER

POLICY PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION. THIS

LEGISLATION WILL ALSO CREATE A FUND THROUGH THE COMPTROLLER TO

REIMBURSE THE INTERVENORS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: YES, MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. SOLAGES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I KNOW

THIS LEGISLATION WE'VE DEBATED THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, THE GOVERNOR HAS

VETOED IT. HAS THIS LEGISLATION CHANGED AT ALL FROM LAST YEAR?

MS. SOLAGES: WE HAVEN'T CHANGED THE LEGISLATION,

BUT WE DEFINITELY DON'T AGREE WITH ITS VETO MESSAGE.

MR. PALMESANO: SO YOU DON'T AGREE WHEN THE

GOVERNOR SAID BASICALLY THIS WOULD INADVERTENTLY RESOLVE IN INCREASING

RATES BECAUSE IT WILL PROVIDE A BLANK CHECK FOR (INAUDIBLE)

REIMBURSEMENT FOR CUSTOMERS AND THIRD-PARTY REPRESENTATION WITH NO

CAP?

MS. SOLAGES: FIRST, WE DON'T AGREE WITH IT BECAUSE

AT THE END OF THE DAY THE RATEPAYERS ARE BEING REPRESENTED. WE ARE

CREATING A MECHANISM FOR GREATER PARTICIPATION. AND SECOND, IF YOU

LOOK AT OTHER MODELS THROUGHOUT THE STATE, FOR EXAMPLE, IN CALIFORNIA,

THE RATEPAYERS WERE SAVED ABOUT $1 BILLION BY SCALING BACK ON

POTENTIAL RATE HIKE PROPOSALS. AND SO THIS LEGISLATION IS JUST ALLOWING,

YOU KNOW, THE RATEPAYER, THE CUSTOMER TO HAVE A GREATER VOICE IN THE

CONVERSATION.

MR. PALMESANO: DON'T RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A

NUMBER OF DIFFERENT AGENCIES? WE HAVE THE UTILITY INTERVENTION UNIT

OF NEW YORK THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE, DIVISION OF CONSUMER

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PROTECTION WHICH REPRESENTS CONSUMERS AND UTILITY RATE AND POLICY

PROCEEDINGS. WE ALSO HAVE A CONSUMER FRAUD AND PROTECTION BUREAU AT

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, AND WE ALSO HAVE THAT WAS CREATED

UNDER GOVERNOR CUOMO IN 2020 THE SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR RATEPAYER

PROTECTION, AND THAT POSITION IS SPECIFICALLY CHARGED WITH REPRESENTING

THE INTEREST OF RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS OF NEW YORK'S

REGULATED ELECTRIC, GAS, WATER AND TELE-CAM COMPANIES WITH THE -- WITH

THE ABILITY TO PARTICIPATE AS A PARTY AT THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONS

ON HEARINGS AND INVESTIGATIONS (INAUDIBLE). WHAT -- ISN'T THAT ENOUGH?

WHAT -- WHAT MORE DO WE NEED?

MS. SOLAGES: LET ME TALK ABOUT REPRESENTING THE

RATEPAYERS, OUR CONSTITUENTS. FOR ME, IT'S NEVER ENOUGH, BUT THIS WOULD

ACTUALLY PRODUCE A -- A BODY, AN ENTITY THAT WOULD SOLELY BE FOCUSING

ON THE RATEPAYERS. AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE HAVING THIS

CONVERSATION IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE, YOU KNOW, REPRESENT BUSINESSES

AND -- AND INDIVIDUALS AND GET DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES IN THIS

CONVERSATION. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT THESE

OTHER ENTITIES ARE DOING, BUT WE ALSO ARE LOOKING FOR A GREATER VOICE IN

THESE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE RATES OF UTILITIES ARE

INCREASING.

MR. PALMESANO: SO -- OH YEAH, THEY'RE

INCREASING ALL RIGHT BECAUSE OF THE POLICIES THAT CONTINUE TO BE PASSED

IN THIS HOUSE LIKE THE (INAUDIBLE) BUT THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER ISSUE. SO

ONE QUESTION I WANT TO ASK, IN THE DEFINITION OF PROCEEDING, (INAUDIBLE)

ON PAGE 2, IT PROVIDES THIS LANGUAGE: SUCH SECTIONS OF THIS CHAPTER ARE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

-- AS ARE APPLICABLE TO A PROCEEDING IN WHICH THE COMMISSION MAKES A

FINDING ON THE RECORD THAT THE PUBLIC INTEREST REQUIRES THE

REIMBURSEMENT OF UTILITY INTERVENOR FEES PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION.

COULD YOU PROVIDE US EXAMPLES OF WHAT OTHER PROCEEDINGS MIGHT BE

COVERED? AND FOR EXAMPLE, I KNOW IN LONG ISLAND THERE'S A CITIZEN

GROUP WHICH ARE VEHEMENTLY OPPOSING WIND PROJECTS IN THEIR

UNDERGROUND POWER LINE SITINGS. WOULD THOSE GROUPS BE ELIGIBLE FOR

SUCH FUNDING UNDER THIS PROCESS?

MS. SOLAGES: NO. THIS IS STRICTLY DEALING WITH

RATE PROPOSAL HIKES.

MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT. SO, IN THAT CASE, THEN --

I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD.

MS. SOLAGES: THAT --

MR. PALMESANO: RATE PROPOSAL HIKES.

MS. SOLAGES: YES.

MR. PALMESANO: SO IN THAT CASE BECAUSE OF THIS

MAJOR MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR WIND PROJECT AS OFFSHORE WIND PROJECTS BEING

DISCUSSED, IT MIGHT COME UP IN COMMITTEE LATER OR LATER, SO THAT'S NOT --

THOSE INDIVIDUALS, THOSE GROUPS, THOSE CONSUMER GROUPS THAT WANT TO

REPRESENT THE INTEREST OF THOSE LONG ISLAND TAXPAYERS AND RATEPAYERS,

THEY WOULD NOT HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE FOR INTERVENOR FUNDS TO BE

ELIGIBLE FOR THEM FOR THIS PROPOSAL, WOULD THEY?

MS. SOLAGES: SO, THIS WOULD STRICTLY BE, YOU

KNOW, I KNOW THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER ISSUE, BUT THIS IS STRICTLY

FOR RATE PROCEEDINGS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT, BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT CASE

IS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. THAT PROJECT IS $1 BILLION PROJECT, A MULTI-BILLION

DOLLAR PROJECT THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT LOCAL NEIGHBORHOODS ON LONG

ISLAND AND THE COMMUNITY. WHO IS PAYING FOR THAT?

MS. SOLAGES: YOU KNOW, LONG ISLAND IS A -- IS A

BARRIER ISLAND AND WE REALLY HAVE TO BE EDUCATED ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF

CLIMATE CHANGE. AND SO I LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING THAT CONVERSATION A

BIT LATER BUT FOCUSING ON THIS BILL RIGHT HERE IN CHIEF THAT WE ARE

DEBATING, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE FOCUS ON THE RATEPAYERS AND

MAKING SURE THAT THEY HAVE A SEAT AT THE NEGOTIATION TABLE. AND THESE

ARE OUR CONSTITUENTS WHO ARE NOW STRUGGLING BETWEEN DECIDING

BETWEEN PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, GROCERIES, PAYING RENT AND ALSO PAYING FOR

UTILITIES. AND SO ALL THIS BILL SAYS IS INDIVIDUALS WILL NOW BE ABLE TO --

OR EXCUSE ME, GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS WILL NOW BE ABLE TO JUST HAVE

THEIR FEES REIMBURSED SIMILAR TO WHAT UTILITIES HAVE. NOW UTILITIES ARE

-- ARE BENEFITING FROM GETTING THEIR FEES REIMBURSED. AND, YOU KNOW,

THESE ARE PRIVATE ENTITIES, THESE ARE NOT OUR CONSTITUENTS, OUR -- OUR

TAXPAYERS, OUR RATEPAYERS.

MR. PALMESANO: SO ON THESE FEES, THERE'S NO CAP

ON THE AMOUNT THAT COULD BE REIMBURSED TO THESE UTILITY GROUPS, ARE

THERE?

MS. SOLAGES: YEAH. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A

PROCESS AND PROCEDURE, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST A RANDOM GROUP CAN JUST

COME UP AND SAY HEY, I WANT TO BE REIMBURSED, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TO

APPLY FOR -- FOR THE REIMBURSEMENT. AND IN ADDITION THERE'S A -- THERE'S

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

A PROCESS, AND SO SIMILAR TO THE -- THE PROCESS THAT UTILITIES GO -- GO

THROUGH, WE'RE JUST SAYING THAT ENTITIES SUCH AS PULP, AARP, CAN

PARTICIPATE AND HAVE THEIR FEES REIMBURSED. IT'S ALL ABOUT PARITY AND

FAIRNESS.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. SO, BUT JUST FOR THE

RECORD, THESE INTERVENOR GROUPS THAT MIGHT COME BEFORE THE PUBLIC

SERVICE COMMISSION ACT AS AN ADVOCATE OR AN INTERVENOR, THEY'LL BE

ELIGIBLE FOR THESE FUNDS. THOSE FUNDS WILL BE PAID FOR BY THE RATEPAYER,

CORRECT?

MS. SOLAGES: AND IT'S REASONABLE REIMBURSEMENT

DETERMINED BY THE PSC. SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO

JUST PICK A NUMBER AND THEN GET REIMBURSED. AGAIN, THERE'S A PROCESS

THAT'S ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT ALL WE'RE SAYING IS THAT THESE OUTSIDE

GROUPS CAN ALSO BENEFIT FOR WHAT UTILITIES ARE BENEFITING FROM RIGHT

NOW.

MR. PALMESANO: AND SO THESE COSTS THAT -- THAT

WILL BE PLACED ON THEM, LIKE I -- I KNOW YOU SAID IN CALIFORNIA, I KNOW

CALIFORNIA'S COSTING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR FOR DIFFERENT -- SOME 147

INTERVENORS COMPENSATIONS (INAUDIBLE) WERE RESOLVED, AVERAGE AMOUNT

OVER LIKE 114,000 IS THE AVERAGE CLAIM PER INTERVENOR. I MEAN, SO ALL

THESE CLAIMS, OBVIOUSLY, WE PAID FOR AND THAT DETERMINATION WAS GOING

TO GET PAID. IT WOULD BE PAID BY THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION, BUT

THE RATEPAYERS ARE THE ONES SUBSIDIZING THOSE RATES, CORRECT?

MS. SOLAGES: YOU KNOW, OVER A DOZEN STATES

CURRENTLY HAVE AN AUTHORIZING UTILITY INTERVENOR FUNDING AND, YOU

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

KNOW, GOING BACK TO THE EXAMPLE OF CALIFORNIA, ONE INTERVENOR GROUP

CALLED TURN, WHICH IS UTILITY REFORM NETWORK, SAVED CALIFORNIA GAS

AND ELECTRIC CUSTOMERS OVER 4 BILLION IN 2021 ALONE. AND SO, YOU

KNOW, THIS BILL WOULD REALLY PROVIDE LOW-INCOME INDIVIDUALS,

MARGINALIZED PEOPLE AND ADVOCATE AND A CHANCE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE

NEGOTIATIONS TO FIGHT AGAINST ANY RATE INCREASES.

MR. PALMESANO: WHAT ABOUT THESE INTERVENOR

GROUPS? SHOULD INTERVENORS THAT ARE ALREADY GOING TO RECEIVE PUBLIC

FUNDS, WILL THEY BE QUALIFIED TO RECEIVE THIS ADDITIONAL FUNDING? I

MEAN I KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, I'LL JUST -- YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THE PUBLIC

UTILITY LAW PROJECT, WE FUND THEM EACH YEAR OUT OF THE BUDGET. WOULD

THEY, YOU KNOW, WOULD THE STATE APPROPRIATION FROM THE TAXPAYERS,

WOULD THEY BE ELIGIBLE FOR A REIMBURSEMENT UNDER THIS PROGRAM, TOO?

MS. SOLAGES: SO, YOU KNOW, PULP IS SUCH A GREAT

ORGANIZATION AND THEY -- THEY DO MANY OTHER ITEMS. AND SO THIS BILL

WOULD ALLOW ENTITIES SUCH AS PULP, EVEN MUNICIPALITIES TO BE ABLE TO

BECOME INTERVENORS. AND SO, YOU KNOW -- AND WE KNOW

MUNICIPALITIES DO RECEIVE GOVERNMENT FUNDS AS WELL. SO, ALL WE'RE

SAYING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO NEGOTIATIONS, WHEN IT

COMES TO BRINGING EVERYONE TO THE TABLE AND HAVING A CONVERSATION

ABOUT RATE INCREASES, WE WANT WHAT THE UTILITIES ARE RECEIVING ALREADY

WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, REIMBURSEMENT.

MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT. NOW, DOES THIS BILL

CONTAIN ANY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE TO THE DEFINITION OF PARTICIPANT THAT

WOULD PRECLUDE MAYBE SOME OF THE (INAUDIBLE) FROM SEEKING

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

REIMBURSEMENT, ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, UTILITY INTERVENTION UNIT,

NYSERDA, THE POWER AUTHORITY, MUNICIPALITIES PARTICULARLY

REGARDING STREETLIGHTS, NET METERING CUSTOMERS, COMMUNITY CHOICE OR

WOULD ALL OF THOSE BE ELIGIBLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROGRAM AND BE

ELIGIBLE TO SEEK REIMBURSEMENT? THERE'S NO LANGUAGE THAT PRECLUDES

THEM FROM SEEKING REIMBURSEMENT, IS THERE?

MS. SOLAGES: MY BELIEF IS THAT PNC WOULD HAVE

SOME TYPE OF PARAMETERS. AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF THESE ENTITIES WERE

SEEKING REIMBURSEMENT, THERE'S -- THERE'S -- THERE'S A PROCESS, BUT, YOU

KNOW, REVIEWING THE BILL QUICKLY, SOME OF THOSE ENTITIES I DON'T THINK

WOULD BE QUALIFIED BUT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A CURRENT

PROCESS. THIS BILL JUST CREATES THE FUND AND, YOU KNOW, ALLOWS PEOPLE

-- ALLOWS ENTITIES TO GET REIMBURSEMENT.

MR. PALMESANO: SO I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT

CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK. THIS ALLOWS 30 DAYS TO REVIEW CONTRIBUTION

COSTS AND WHETHER INTERVENOR WOULD HAVE SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL HARDSHIP

VERSUS CALIFORNIA 75, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE THERE, RIGHT?

MS. SOLAGES: AND WHAT'S GREAT IS THAT THE -- THE

PSC CAN CHANGE THOSE PARAMETERS IF THEY -- IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO.

MR. PALMESANO: AND SHOULD THE PSC BE GIVEN

THE AUTHORITY TO JOIN -- TO JOIN INTERVENORS WITH SIMILAR INTEREST TOGETHER

TO AVOID PAYING DUPLICATE FEES TO THESE INTERVENOR FUNDS, BECAUSE WE'RE

GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT COME FORWARD ON THE SAME CASE

AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO BE PAYING OUT MULTIPLE ALLOCATIONS TO A

NUMBER OF DIFFERENT INTERVENORS BECAUSE THEY'RE ENTERING AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PARTICIPATING BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE AN INTERVENOR ON --

MS. SOLAGES: THIS LEGISLATION WOULD ALLOW

CONSOLIDATION OF -- OF DIFFERENT INTERVENORS AS WELL.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. ONE OTHER QUESTION I

WANT TO ASK YOU. RELATIVE TO PROCEEDING. AND IT SAYS THE DEFINITION

REALLY PERMITS AN APPLICATION INTERVENOR FUNDS IN A RULE-MAKING

PROCEEDING. THE RULE-MAKING PARTICIPATION -- THE REIMBURSEMENT FOR

PARTICIPATION AND THE RULE-MAKING PROCEED -- PROCEEDING WOULD SET A

PRECEDENT THAT WOULD ENABLE PARTIES --

MS. SOLAGES: CAN THE GENTLEMAN JUST SPEAK A

LITTLE BIT LOUDER?

MR. PALMESANO: YES. I CERTAINLY CAN.

MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU.

MR. PALMESANO: SO I WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE BIT

AGAIN ABOUT THE DEFINITION OF PROCEEDING ON PAGE 2 AS IT RELATES TO --

BECAUSE IT SAYS PROCEEDING MEANS INVESTIGATION, RULE-MAKING OR OTHER

FORMAL PROCEDURE, AND I WANTED TO ASK ON THAT. THE DEFINITION WOULD

PERMIT AN APPLICATION FOR INTERVENOR FUNDS IN A RULE-MAKING PROCEEDING

AND I THINK THE REIMBURSEMENT FOR PARTICIPATION IN RULE-MAKING

PROCEEDINGS WOULD SET A PRECEDENT THAT WOULD ENABLE PARTIES

PARTICIPATING IN RULE-MAKING PROCEEDINGS BY OTHER STATE AGENCIES TO

CITE THIS STATUTE TO SEEK ITS INTERVENOR FUNDS. WOULDN'T THAT NOT BE THE

CASE BECAUSE IT'S A PROCEEDING WHICH IS -- WHICH IS A RULE-MAKING

PROCEEDING VERSUS A RATE CASE, BECAUSE I'M JUST GOING BY THE LANGUAGE

IN YOUR BILL.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. SOLAGES: I -- I DON'T -- I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S

THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW OR BELIEVE -- BUT AGAIN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

REPRESENTING OUR CONSTITUENTS, RATEPAYERS --

MR. PALMESANO: I UNDERSTAND.

MS. SOLAGES: I -- I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT

WE HAVE A VOICE. AND SO IF A PRIVATE ENTITY IS -- IS HAVING A VOICE AND

THEY'RE ABLE TO GET REIMBURSEMENT, THEN, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD DO SO

THE SAME. I'M NOT PROMOTING THE IDEA BUT, YOU KNOW, I -- I DO THINK

THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID OF RATEPAYERS HAVING A -- A VOICE AT THE

TABLE WHEN IT COMES TO NEGOTIATIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT RATE INCREASES ON NEW YORKERS.

MR. PALMESANO: BECAUSE REGARDING THAT

SITUATION, TOO, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OTHER STATUTE THAT WOULD PROVIDE

INTERVENOR FUNDERS -- FUNDS WITH RESPECT TO AN INVESTIGATION OR RULE-

MAKING AS PROPOSED IN THE LANGUAGE OF THIS BILL?

MS. SOLAGES: THERE'S ALREADY PRECEDENCE IN

INTERVENORS DURING, YOU KNOW. SORRY. THERE'S ALREADY PRECEDENCE

WHEN IT COMES TO THE (INAUDIBLE) PROCESS FOR INTERVENORS TO -- TO

PARTICIPATE.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. GOING BACK TO THE

CALIFORNIA STATUTE DIFFERENT FROM THE LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL. IT'S MY

UNDERSTANDING THE CALIFORNIA STATUTE FOR INTERVENORS REQUIRES ELIGIBILITY

TO BE BECAUSE THE ORDER OR DECISION HAS -- HAS ADOPTED IN WHOLE OR PART,

ONE OR MORE FACTUAL OR LEGAL CONTENTIONS, SPECIFIC POLICY OR PROCEDURE

RECOMMENDATION. SO MY QUESTION IS, WHY IS THE ELIGIBILITY FOR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

REIMBURSEMENT IN THIS LEGISLATION BASED UPON THE POSSIBILITY OF

ADOPTION VERSUS ACTUAL ADOPTION, AND SHOULD RATEPAYERS BE REQUIRED TO

PAY FOR INTERVENORS THAT ARE EFFECTIVELY DUPLICATING THE WORK OF OTHER

PARTIES THAT ARE A PART OF THIS PROCEEDING?

MS. SOLAGES: SO THERE'S A LOT IN THAT QUESTION.

MR. PALMESANO: THERE IS, THERE IS.

MS. SOLAGES: SO, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THE PSC HAS

THE FREEDOM TO -- TO GET INTERVENORS TO WORK TOGETHER, AND AT THE END OF

THE DAY WE ARE ENSURING THAT PEOPLE HAVE A -- A VOICE IN THIS PROCESS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE CONCERN THAT YOU MAY HAVE, THE PSC HAS

THE FREEDOM TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY.

MS. SOLAGES: NOTHING ABOUT THE CONGO?

MR. PALMESANO: WHAT'S THAT?

MS. SOLAGES: NOTHING. I'M TEASING YOU.

MR. PALMESANO: NO, YOU'RE FINE. YOU'RE FINE.

WELL, LISTEN. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. I THINK I CAN SPEAK ON THE BILL

NOW.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.

PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: MR. SPEAKER, AND MY

COLLEAGUES, I UNDERSTAND THE INTENTION BEHIND THE LEGISLATION. I

UNDERSTAND WHAT THE SPONSOR IS TRYING TO DO. YES, PROTECTING THE

RATEPAYER IS AN IMPORTANT THING, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT ON THE FLOOR

ON A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT OCCASIONS. FOR EXAMPLE, WITH THE GREEN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

POLICIES, BUT RIGHT NOW THIS -- WE HAVE A NUMBER OF AGENCIES THAT WE'VE

LISTED BEFORE LIKE I SAID THE OFFICE OF -- OF SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR

RATEPAYER PROTECTION, WE HAVE THE UTILITY INTERVENTION UNIT, WE HAVE

THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION SPECIAL PROCESSES, WE HAVE AGENCY

AFTER AGENCY THAT'S GOAL IS PRIMARY [SIC] TO ACT ON BEHALF OF THE

RATEPAYER IN THESE PROCEEDINGS. AND I THINK THERE'S VERY WISE CONCERNS

RELATIVE TO THIS. THE GOVERNOR HAS CITED THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS IN THE

VETO MESSAGE. ULTIMATELY THIS IS GOING TO BORNE BY THE RATEPAYER AND

THAT'S -- THAT'S VERY PROBLEMATIC. I THINK THERE'S ALSO PROBLEMATIC

LANGUAGE IN THE LEGISLATION AS FAR AS DEALING WITH ACTUAL PROCEEDINGS,

RATE -- AND RULE-MAKING PROCEEDINGS, I THINK THAT'S PROBLEMATIC. IT'S

GOING TO MAKE THINGS ELIGIBLE FOR INTERVENTION UNITS FROM THESE

DIFFERENT AREAS. ALSO, I DID WANT TO POINT OUT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE

-- I BROUGHT UP THE -- THE ISSUE ON -- WITH THE OFFSHORE WIND PROJECT AND

WHETHER THEY WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR ANY REIMBURSEMENT. AND THE

SPONSOR SAID THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT RATE-MAKING.

AND THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM, I THINK, WITH SOME OF THE GREEN POLICIES

THAT WE KEEP SEEING BEING PUT IN PLACE IS THEY'RE NOT GOING THROUGH THE

RATE-MAKING PROCESS. THEY'RE JUST BEING PAID FOR, APPROVED AND THEN

BEING PUT ON THE BILLS ON THE SUPPLY SIDE BECAUSE MOST OF THE RATE --

MOST OF THE RATE CASES DEAL WITH THE TRANSPORTATION AND DELIVERY THAT THE

UTILITIES ARE REQUIRED TO PUT IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THE WIRES ARE FIXED,

THE PIPES ARE FIXED, THAT'S WHAT -- THAT'S WHERE THE RATE CASE IS GOING

AND THAT'S WHAT (INAUDIBLE) RATE CASE THAT RAISES UP MONEY. RATE CASE A

LOT OF PEOPLE UPSET BUT I NEVER HEAR ANYONE GET UPSET -- ANYONE GET

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

UPSET ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EQUATION WHEN WE SEE LIKE THIS OFFSHORE

WIND PROJECT THAT'S BEING PROPOSED, LIKE THE PROJECT COMING FROM

QUEBEC TO NEW YORK CITY. THOSE -- THOSE ARE MULT-BILLION DOLLAR

PROJECTS, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT ARE GOING ON THE RATEPAYERS' BILLS, IT'S A

FACT. THEY DON'T KNOW IT. THERE'S NO PSC APPROVAL. THEY'RE JUST

PUSHING IT THROUGH ALL IN THE SAKE OF GREEN ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE

WHEN WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE

BECAUSE WE'RE ONLY .4 PERCENT OF THE TOTAL GLOBAL EMISSIONS AND YET, WE

HAVE SOME OF THE -- THE BEST ENVIRONMENTAL POLICIES IN PLACE BUT WE'RE

DOING THIS ALL IN NEW YORK, THIS IS ALL BEING BORNE BY THE RATEPAYER.

THOSE -- THAT LINE FROM QUEBEC DOWN TO NEW YORK CITY, THAT'S NOT

COMING UP FOR RATEPAYER INTERVENOR FUNDS, THE PEOPLE (INAUDIBLE) WHEN

THEIR UTILITY BILLS ARE GOING UP. THEY'RE JUST SAYING YOU'RE GOING TO PAY

FOR IT. JUST LIKE THE LONG ISLAND PROJECT, OFFSHORE WIND. THAT'S GOING

ON EVERYONE'S UTILITY BILLS. AND I UNDERSTAND WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT

RATEPAYER CASES. I JUST -- I -- I WAS JUST KIND OF JUST SEEING -- WHEN I

SEE THE OUTRAGE WHEN THE UTILITIES GO FOR RATE CASES EVERYONE'S LIKE, YOU

KNOW, BESIDES THEMSELVES AND THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BUILD RESILIENCY AND

RELIABILITY IN THE SYSTEM TO PROVIDE AND TO ADDRESS THE ABUNDANCE OF

POWER THAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED TO DEAL WITH THIS GREEN MANDATE, AND

GREEN IS NOT SO GREEN. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT LATER. BUT

THAT'S WHERE MY CONCERN IS. THERE'S ALREADY DUPLICATION OF THESE

AGENCIES AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT USE THIS PROGRAM AND ACT ON BEHALF OF

THE RATEPAYER. ALL THIS IS GOING TO DO IS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE

INTERVENORS ACTING -- ADVOCATING ON BEHALF OF THE RATEPAYER, BUT YET

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THEY'RE -- THEY'RE COSTING THE RATEPAYERS' RATES TO GO UP BECAUSE OF THIS

ADDITIONAL BUREAUCRACY AND DUPLICATION OF SERVICES AND THERE'S NO CAP

ON THE FUNDS THAT CAN BE AWARDED, WE SEE THAT IN CALIFORNIA, IT CAN

HAPPEN HERE. AND WE CAN SAY WE CAN PUT IT IN THE PSC'S HAND, BUT THE

PSC ALREADY RIGHT NOW IS PUSHING THESE COSTS ONTO THE RATEPAYER LIKE

THE OFFSHORE WIND PROJECT THAT'S BEING PROPOSED, LIKE THE QUEBEC LINE

COMING DOWN TO NEW YORK CITY, ALL OF THEM. BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT

ARE BEING BORNE BY MY RATEPAYERS, BY YOUR RATEPAYERS, ALL IN THE NAME

OF GREEN ENERGY AND CLEAN ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE. BUT I WILL

REMIND YOU ONCE AGAIN, NEW YORK ONLY CONTRIBUTES 0.4 PERCENT OF

TOTAL GLOBAL EMISSIONS, WHILE CHINA CONTRIBUTES 29 PERCENT, HAS 1,000

COAL PLANTS AND IS BUILDING MORE. AND IF YOU WANT TO ADD ANY IN CHINA

AND ANY IN RUSSIA INTO THAT, THAT'S 40 PERCENT, WE'RE AT .4 PERCENT.

WE'RE NOT MAKING THE IMPACT WE'VE HAD, AND THIS IS ALL BEING DONE IN

NEW YORK. AND WHAT ARE WE DOING ALONG THE WAY? WE'RE NOT MAKING

AN IMPACT, WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE, WE'RE NOT. EVEN

IF WE GET DOWN TO ZERO, BECAUSE OF THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES. NO ONE ELSE

IS PARTICIPATING WITH US. AND WHEN WE BRING THIS UP, YOU ALWAYS SAY

WE'RE GOING TO LEAD, WE'RE GOING TO LEAD, WE'RE GOING TO LEAD. THE

COMMISSIONER OF DEC, THE PRESIDENT OF NYSERDA SAYS, THE

GOVERNOR SAYS WE'RE GOING TO LEAD, I'VE HEARD IT ON THIS FLOOR IN DEBATE.

BUT YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO LEAD ON THAT, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO CHILD

HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES AND DEALING WITH ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND THE

ELEMENTS THAT ARE NEEDED TO PRODUCE THOSE ELECTRIC VEHICLES LIKE COBALT,

WHICH WE KNOW IS EXTRACTED IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

IS USED IN CHILD LABOR. SOME 35- TO 40,000 CHILDREN ARE ESTIMATED TO BE

-- SOME AS YOUNG AS SIX YEARS OLD, HAND MINING IN ARTISAN MINES TO

EXTRACT COBALT USED TO PRODUCE THE BATTERIES TO POWER THE ELECTRIC

VEHICLES. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND WE SEE FIRE

AFTER FIRE, THE SAFETY ISSUE OF IT --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: YES?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PLEASE STAY ON THE

BILL THAT'S ON THE BOARD.

MR. PALMESANO: THIS IS --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I -- I -- I UNDERSTAND

YOUR WORLD VIEW. WE'VE --

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: -- HEARD YOUR WORLD

VIEW. BUT IF YOU WOULD STAY ON THE BILL THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT,

PLEASE.

MR. PALMESANO: I -- I CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT, MR.

SPEAKER. I -- I WOULD SAY I WOULD JUST MAKE THE CONTENTION THIS IS ALL

RELATED TO RATEPAYERS AND ENERGY COSTS AND ENERGY POLICIES. AND I

KNOW -- AND I KNOW THE SPONSOR WANT TO ADDRESS UTILITY RATES AND UTILITY

CUSTOMERS AND SO DO I, BUT THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEIR -- THEIR

DOLLARS ARE GOING FOR AND HOW THEY'RE SPENT. AND I THINK, AGAIN, THERE'S

ALREADY PROCESSES IN PLACE, THERE'S ALREADY TAX DOLLARS GOING FOR THIS,

THEY'RE ALREADY IN A PARTICIPATION PROCESS. IT'S NOT JUST ME THAT SAID IT,

THE GOVERNOR SAID IT. IT'S BEEN VETOED TWICE, IT SHOULD BE VETOED AGAIN.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ALL THIS WILL DO IS ULTIMATELY INCREASE RATES FOR CUSTOMERS IN RESIDENTIAL

AREAS, RESIDENTIAL PEOPLE AND IT'S NOT PROTECTING THOSE OTHER GROUPS THAT

WANT TO HAVE THEIR VOICE HEARD LIKE THE OFFSHORE WIND -- THAT NOT GOING

TO BE ABLE TO (INAUDIBLE) ON THAT PART OF IT. THIS IS ALL -- ASK THE

RATEPAYER, WE'RE NOT PROTECTING THEM. WE'RE NOT PROTECTING FOR THE --

THE LINE COMING DOWN FROM QUEBEC. SO THAT'S WHERE MY CONCERN IS,

THAT'S WHY I GET FRUSTRATED WITH THIS ISSUE ON A HOST OF ISSUES. AND THIS

IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE A CHALLENGE FOR OUR

RATEPAYERS IN THE STATE, OUR BUSINESSES AND ALL YOU'RE GOING TO DO, WE

AREN'T GOING TO MAKE THE IMPACT AT ALL. IT'S GOING TO INCREASE RATES FOR

SMALL BUSINESSES, FARMERS, MANUFACTURERS AND WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE

TO SEE THE EXODUS OF MORE AND MORE NEW YORKERS LEAVING THE STATE

BECAUSE WE ALREADY PAY SOME OF THE HIGHEST UTILITY AND ENERGY PRICES

IN THE COUNTRY AND IT'S JUST GOING TO GET WORSE UNDER THE POLICIES THAT

CONTINUE TO BE ADVANCED IN THIS HOUSE ALL IN THE NAME OF CLIMATE

CHANGE. AND THAT'S WHERE MY CONCERN IS BECAUSE ALLS WE'RE GOING TO

DO IS DRIVE MORE AND MORE BUSINESSES AND MANUFACTURERS OUT OF THE

STATE WHILE NOT MAKING AN IMPACT ON THE CLIMATE THAT WE ALL SAY WE

WANT TO PROTECT.

SO FOR THAT REASON, MR. SPEAKER, AND FOR ANOTHER HOST

OF OTHER REASONS, I'M GOING TO BE VOTING NO ON THIS BILL AND I WOULD

ENCOURAGE SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME IN THAT VOTE AS WELL AND

THANKS TO THE SPONSOR FOR HER TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. GOODELL.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. SOLAGES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANKS, MS. SOLAGES. ISN'T IT THE

PURPOSE OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO REVIEW THESE

APPLICATIONS? I MEAN THAT'S THEIR ROLE, ISN'T IT?

MS. SOLAGES: JUST TO CLARIFY. ARE YOU SAYING THE

PURPOSE OF THE PSC IS TO LOOK AT THE INTERVENOR -- INTERVENORS OR TO -- TO

LOOK AT THE WHOLE PROCESS IN A WHOLE?

MR. GOODELL: WELL, IT'S THE WHOLE PROCESS,

CORRECT?

MS. SOLAGES: YES, AND THEY -- THEY HAVE TO

REPRESENT BOTH THE UTILITIES AND THE RATEPAYERS. SO WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS

THAT WE WANT INTERVENORS JUST FOCUSING SOLELY ON THE RATEPAYERS'

INTEREST.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. SO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS

CONVERT WHAT HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN A REVIEW BY A STATE-FUNDED

THEORETICALLY INDEPENDENT AGENCY WHOSE SOLE MISSION IS TO PROTECT THE

CONSUMER AND THE SYSTEM AND CONVERT IT INTO AN ADVERSARIAL PROCEEDING

FUNDED ON BOTH SIDES BY THE UTILITY; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. SOLAGES: NO. THIS INTERVENOR PROCESS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ALREADY EXISTS. ALL WE'RE SAYING IS WE'RE GIVING PEOPLE A -- A GREATER

VOICE. THAT'S NOT A NEGATIVE THING TO HAVE PARTICIPATION. I ALWAYS SAY

THAT DEMOCRACY IS A PARTICIPATION SPORT. AND THE MORE PERSPECTIVE AND

VOICES THAT WE HAVE, THE BETTER THAT THE PROCESS WILL BE. SO THE PSC --

THE PSC REPRESENTS EVERYONE. ALL WE'RE SAYING IS THAT WE WANT JUST

ANOTHER SEAT AT THE TABLE. AND I THINK -- I THINK THE TABLE'S BIG ENOUGH

TO PULL UP ANOTHER CHAIR FOR THE INTERVENORS.

MR. GOODELL: BUT WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT THIS IS

YOU'RE ASKING UTILITIES TO PAY NOT ONLY THEIR OWN EXPENSES OF PRESENTING

THEIR CASE BEFORE THE PSC, BUT ALSO TO PAY THE CHARGES AND COST OF THOSE

WHO ARE OPPOSING THE CASE. BOTH BE PAID BY THE UTILITY, CORRECT?

MS. SOLAGES: THAT'S NOT A -- A -- A UNIQUE, YOU

KNOW, REQUEST.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, WE HAVE THAT SITUATION WHEN

SOMEBODY APPLIES FOR A SPDES PERMIT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE DEC. YOU

APPLY FOR A PERMIT. THE DEC, OF COURSE, WILL TAKE OPINIONS FROM

ANYBODY, THAT'S THEIR ROLE. DO WE ASK THE APPLICANT TO PAY FOR BOTH

SIDES OF THAT PROCEEDING?

MS. SOLAGES: WE DO FOR PERMITS FOR A PROJECT.

MR. GOODELL: WE DO?

MS. SOLAGES: FOR UTILITIES.

MR. GOODELL: ONLY FOR UTILITIES. I'M ASKING ABOUT

THE DEC. DO WE HAVE ANYTHING COMPARABLE IN THE DEC?

MS. SOLAGES: SO, THIS BILL IS A UTILITY BILL AND SO I

WANT TO STICK TO THE TOPIC OF UTILITIES.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. GOODELL: WELL, I UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU SAID

THIS WAS NOT UNUSUAL SO I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT, DO WE DO IT IN ANOTHER

AGENCY --

MS. SOLAGES: THIS IS NOT A (INAUDIBLE) UTILITY.

MR. GOODELL: DO WE DO IT WITH THE DEC -- JUST

LET ME FINISH THE QUESTION -- DO WE DO IT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF

ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION WHERE WE ASK AN APPLICANT FOR A PERMIT

TO PAY FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO OPPOSE THE PERMIT? DO WE DO IT IN THE

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WHEN SOMEONE APPLIES FOR A CERTIFICATE OF NEED

OR -- OR ANYTHING ELSE? I MEAN WE DON'T DO IT IN ANY OTHER REGULATORY

CONTEXT, DO WE?

MS. SOLAGES: SO YES, JUST STICKING BACK TO

UTILITIES. YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW THIS IS A DYNAMIC THAT DOES HAPPEN WITH

UTILITIES.

MR. GOODELL: NO, I UNDERSTAND. YOU MENTIONED

THAT --

MS. SOLAGES: AND NEW YORK HEALTH INSURANCE

COMPANIES ALREADY --

MR. GOODELL: SO MY QUESTION -- I MEAN JUST SO

WE'RE CLEAR, MY QUESTION IS, ARE THERE ANY OTHER STATE AGENCIES, OTHER

THAN THE PSC, WHERE WE REQUIRE A PERSON SEEKING PERMISSION FROM THE

STATE TO PAY THOSE WHO OPPOSE THEM ON THE PERMIT APPLICATIONS?

MS. SOLAGES: SO TO ENTERTAIN THE GENTLEMAN'S

REQUEST, THE NEW YORK HEALTH INSURANCE CUSTOMERS ALREADY SAVED

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS SIMILAR DUE TO THE ENACTMENT OF A 2010 PRIOR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

APPROVAL LAW WHICH REQUIRES INSURANCE RATE INCREASES REQUEST TO BE

SUBMITTED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE FOR APPROVAL PRIOR TO

GOING THROUGH THE EFFECT AND THAT IMPACTS THE CUSTOMER AND NON-PROFITS

ARE ALLOWED TO SUBMIT COMMENT AND GET REIMBURSEMENT. SO THIS -- THIS

DYNAMIC DOES EXIST, BUT I REALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON THE UTILITIES PROCESS.

MR. GOODELL: CERTAINLY. SO IN DESCRIBING WHO IS

ELIGIBLE FOR THIS REIMBURSEMENT --

MS. SOLAGES: ESPECIALLY SINCE UTILITIES DO HAVE A

MONOPOLY IF YOU LOOK AT ACROSS NEW YORK STATE. SO THIS JUST, YOU

KNOW, IS A DIFFERENT DYNAMIC SO I'M -- I -- I'M WEARY ABOUT TAKING

SAMPLES AND OTHER EXAMPLES AND HYPOTHETICALS. WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT

THE FACTS, WHICH IS UTILITIES AND, YOU KNOW, THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

MR. GOODELL: SURE. SO, LOOKING AT WHO IS

ELIGIBLE FOR REIMBURSEMENT BY THE UTILITY, YOU LIST, FOR EXAMPLE, I'M

LOOKING AT PAGE 1 UNDER THE DEFINITION OF PARTICIPANTS. THOSE WHO

REPRESENT THE INTEREST OF A SIGNIFICANT RESIDENT -- NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL

SMALL BUSINESS CUSTOMERS. IS THERE ANY STATUTORY REQUIREMENT THAT THE

INTERVENOR REPRESENT PEOPLE WITHIN THAT UTILITY JURISDICTION?

MS. SOLAGES: SO THE PSC WOULD CREATE THE

DYNAMICS OF RULES AROUND IT, YOU KNOW --

MR. GOODELL: NO, I UNDERSTAND. THE QUESTION IS,

IS THERE ANY STATUTORY REQUIREMENT THAT THOSE SEEKING REIMBURSEMENT

REPRESENT PEOPLE WITHIN THAT UTILITIES JURISDICTION?

MS. SOLAGES: THERE COULD BE A LIMIT, YES.

MR. GOODELL: AND IS THAT IN THE STATUTE? I DON'T

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SEE IT BUT...

MS. SOLAGES: THIS IS NOT IN THE STATUTE --

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. I THINK YOU ANSWERED

THE QUESTION. NOW I SEE THAT THE STATUTE SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS

REIMBURSEMENT FOR ONE OR MORE BUSINESSES OR INDUSTRIES WHICH RECEIVE

UTILITY SERVICE ORDINARILY AND PRIMARILY FOR USE IN CONNECTION WITH THE

MANUFACTURE, SALE, DISTRIBUTION OF GOODS AND SERVICES. WHY IS IT THAT

WE EXPRESSLY PROHIBIT ANY REIMBURSEMENT OR ANY MANUFACTURING IN

NEW YORK STATE? I'M LOOKING AT PAGE 1, STARTING ON LINE 16.

MS. SOLAGES: SO THE -- THE SPIRIT OF THE LEGISLATION

IS FOR THE RATEPAYERS, THE RESIDENTIAL RATEPAYERS THAT ARE MOST IMPACTED

BY -- BY, YOU KNOW, UTILITY INCREASES TO BE REPRESENTED. AND SO, YOU

KNOW, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR, YOU KNOW, THE RESIDENTIAL RATEPAYERS

TO HAVE A GREATER VOICE IN THIS PROCESS. AND --

MR. GOODELL: SO --

MS. SOLAGES: BUSINESSES --

MR. GOODELL: SO BASICALLY --

MS. SOLAGES: -- PRIVATE BUSINESSES HAVE RESOURCES,

YOU KNOW, THEY -- THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, VOICE THEIR CONCERN, BUT, YOU

KNOW, THE AVERAGE RATEPAYER WHEN WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, LOW

INCOME, MARGINALIZED INDIVIDUALS, YOU KNOW, THIS BILL IS TO GIVE THEM

AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOICE THEIR CONCERN DURING THE PROCESS.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING,

AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THE STATUTORY FRAMEWORK, WE ARE NOT GOING TO HELP

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

BUSINESSES SET MANUFACTURED GOODS AND SERVICES -- MANUFACTURE FOR

SALE OF DISTRIBUTION GOODS OR SERVICES, WE DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT THEM

IN TERMS OF THE STATUTORY REIMBURSEMENT, WE ONLY CARE ABOUT

ORGANIZATIONS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT REPRESENT PEOPLE WITHIN THAT UTILITY,

CORRECT?

MS. SOLAGES: NO, NOT CORRECT. YOU KNOW, FOR THE

RECORD, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE CONCERN FOR ALL NEW YORKERS, BUT THIS

BILL-IN-CHIEF THAT WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT IS -- IS FOR THE RESIDENTIAL AND

SMALL BUSINESS RATEPAYERS.

MR. GOODELL: OR ORGANIZATIONS.

MS. SOLAGES: OR ORGANIZATIONS.

MR. GOODELL: THAT PURPORT TO REPRESENT THEM.

OKAY. WHAT IS THE ESTIMATED COST TO THE UTILITY COMPANY FOR THIS

PROGRAM?

MS. SOLAGES: IT WILL VARY DEPENDING ON THE -- YOU

KNOW, THAT'S A -- THAT'S A QUESTION ON WHETHER THE UTILITIES ARE

REQUESTING A -- A -- A RATE PAYMENT OR RATE INCREASE SO IT WOULD VARY.

MR. GOODELL: BUT WHAT IS YOUR ESTIMATE, TOTAL

AGGREGATE. I UNDERSTAND IT'LL VARY FROM INDIVIDUAL CASES, BUT HOW MUCH

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF --

MS. SOLAGES: WELL, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A RATE --

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MR. GOODELL: -- WHAT IT WILL COST FOR UTILITY --

MS. SOLAGES: IF YOU DON'T HAVE A RATE PROCEEDING,

IT'S ZERO DOLLARS, BUT IF YOU DO, IT'S -- IT'S DIFFERENT. SO IT ALL DEPENDS ON

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE AMOUNT OF REQUEST THAT WE GET IN -- IN -- IN THE (INAUDIBLE).

MR. GOODELL: I UNDERSTAND IT DEPENDS ON THE

AMOUNT OF REQUEST. WHAT IS THE ESTIMATE OF THE AGGREGATE COST OF

IMPLEMENTING THIS PROGRAM? DO WE HAVE AN ESTIMATE? I MEAN IT'S

EITHER YES, WE HAVE AN ESTIMATE OR NO, AND IF WE DO HAVE AN ESTIMATE,

WHAT IS IT?

MS. SOLAGES: AND SO, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE

DIFFERENT ENTITIES THAT MAKE A REQUEST FOR A RATE PAYMENT SO THERE --

THERE CAN'T BE A QUANTIFICATION. BUT I'LL TELL YOU THAT THE MONEYS THAT

ARE NOT USED ARE (INAUDIBLE) BACK INTO THE ACCOUNT AND -- AND -- AND

STAY IN THE ACCOUNT FOR WHEN IT'S USED. SO --

MR. GOODELL: SO --

MS. SOLAGES: -- SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST A FUND TO

CREATE IT.

MR. GOODELL: SO WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IS

GOING TO BE CHARGED TO THE UTILITY COMPANIES. WE DON'T KNOW THE COST

OF THIS PROGRAM. WE DO KNOW THAT MANUFACTURERS ARE INELIGIBLE. WE

KNOW THAT NOT-FOR-PROFITS WHO PURPORT TO REPRESENT CUSTOMERS ARE

ELIGIBLE BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY HAVE TO ACTUALLY REPRESENT

ANYONE WITHIN THE UTILITY DISTRICT, CORRECT? IS THAT A FAIR SUMMARY OF

OUR DEBATE SO FAR?

MS. SOLAGES: NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S A FAIR SUMMARY

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YOU'RE -- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING INTO THE

LEGISLATIVE RECORD HYPOTHETICALS. AND SO ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT THIS IS AN

OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO BE REPRESENTED AND, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE AMOUNT OF REQUESTS, THEN WE WILL KNOW THE COST, BUT IT'S A FUND SO

IT'S A FINITE AMOUNT OF MONEY AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S PARAMETERS

AROUND IT. SO THE PSC HAS A JURISDICTION. I WOULD NOT WANT TO LEGISLATE

EVERYTHING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE'D BE DIFFERENT OPTION, DIFFERENT

PARAMETERS. AND SO THIS BILL WOULD GIVE THE -- THE FREEDOM FOR THE

PSC AND OTHER ENTITIES TO FIGHT FOR THE RATEPAYERS, AND THAT'S ALL WE'RE

SAYING. IF YOU WANT TO PUT SOMETHING INTO THE RECORD, I WOULD SAY THAT

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION IS ALLOWING PEOPLE TO BE AT THE NEGOTIATION

TABLE AND HAVE A GREATER CONVERSATION ABOUT THESE RATE INCREASES THAT

ARE IMPACTING ALL ACROSS THE STATE FROM, YOU KNOW, LONG ISLAND ALL THE

WAY UP TO, YOU KNOW, BUFFALO. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE PAYING, YOU

KNOW, THESE RATE INCREASES AND NOT BEING REPRESENTED AT THE TABLE SO

LET'S PUT THAT ON THE RECORD.

MR. GOODELL: AND I THINK YOU'VE ANSWERED THIS

SO I APOLOGIZE IF YOU HAVE AND I MISSED IT. THE GOVERNOR VETOED THIS

IN THE PAST, BUT THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY CHANGES SINCE HER VETO; IS THAT

CORRECT?

MS. SOLAGES: AND SO WE DISAGREE WITH THE VETO

MESSAGE, BECAUSE AGAIN --

MR. GOODELL: NO, I UNDERSTAND. MY QUESTION IS

HAVE THERE BEEN ANY CHANGES?

MS. SOLAGES: I'M -- I'M ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. HAVE THERE HAVE BEEN ANY

CHANGES? I THINK IT'S A YES OR NO.

MS. SOLAGES: AND SO I APPRECIATE THE -- THE -- THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

QUESTIONNAIRE'S ENTHUSIASM, AND I WOULD ASK THAT HE WAIT FOR ME TO

ANSWER THE QUESTION. SO BACK TO THAT. SO THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PLEASE, AGAIN. WHY

DON'T YOU --

MS. SOLAGES: OH, NO, NO, NO. I'M TRYING TO ANSWER

THE QUESTION AND THE GENTLEMAN KEEPS INTERRUPTING. AND SO IF I'M FREE

TO ANSWER THE QUESTION...

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PROCEED.

MS. SOLAGES: IF HE COULD POSE THE QUESTION AGAIN,

I WILL ANSWER THE QUESTION.

MR. GOODELL: SURE. IS THIS THE SAME LANGUAGE IN

THIS BILL THAT WAS VETOED BY THE GOVERNOR LAST YEAR?

MS. SOLAGES: SO WE DISAGREE WITH THE VETO

MESSAGE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE OTHER PARAMETERS, THE OTHER STATES, MONEY

WAS SAVED AT THE END OF THE DAY AND THERE ARE PARAMETERS AROUND IT. IT'S

FUNNY BECAUSE IN THE EXECUTIVE MESSAGE IT SAYS THAT THIS IS A BLANK

CHECK BUT THAT'S AN INFERENCE AND THAT'S SAYING THAT HER OWN -- THE

ADMINISTRATION, STATE AGENCY DOESN'T HAVE CONTROL OR CHECKS OVER THE

PROCESS, WHICH IS KIND OF ODD TO ME. AND SO THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION

HAS THE ABILITY TO PUT PARAMETERS AROUND WHO RECEIVES THE MONEY, IT

CREATES A FUND, WHICH ALLOWS INDIVIDUALS TO HAVE GREATER

REPRESENTATION. AND SO I DISAGREE WITH THE VETO MESSAGE, AND I HOPE

THROUGH -- THROUGH ME BEING THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL I CAN ADVOCATE FOR

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND NOT -- NOT TO RECEIVE A VETO MESSAGE.

MR. GOODELL: I UNDERSTAND YOU DISAGREE WITH THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

VETO MESSAGE. HAS THIS BILL CHANGED SINCE IT WAS VETOED?

MS. SOLAGES: NO, WE HAVE NOT CHANGED IT.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY, THANK YOU FOR -- FOR THAT.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THIS IS AN INTERESTING BILL BECAUSE

IN NEW YORK STATE WE'VE ESTABLISHED A PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION.

WE APPROVED THEIR BUDGET EVERY YEAR. THEY HIRE EXPERTS. THEIR SOLE

MISSION IS TO PROTECT NEW YORK RATEPAYERS AND UTILITIES TO MAKE SURE

THAT THE RATES THAT ARE CHARGED ARE FAIR AND REASONABLE AND THAT THE

UTILITIES HAVE ADEQUATE FUNDS TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE RELIABLE POWER.

THAT'S THEIR SOLE MISSION. AND WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT SAYS WE'RE GOING

TO NOW REQUIRE THE UTILITY COMPANIES TO PAY PEOPLE TO CHALLENGE WHAT

THEY SUBMIT TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION. WE ALREADY PAY THE

PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO MAKE THAT ANALYSIS. AND NOW WE'RE

ASKING UTILITY COMPANIES TO PAY NOT ONLY FOR THEIR PRESENTATION BUT THE

PRESENTATION AGAINST THEM. AND WE DON'T DO THIS IN OTHER CONTEXTS. WE

DON'T ASK OR WE DON'T PROVIDE PAYMENT IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO CHALLENGE

A REQUEST FOR A HOSPITAL FOR A CERTIFICATE OF NEED. WE DON'T REQUIRE THE

HOSPITAL TO PAY FOR THE DETAILED REPORT THAT GOES TO THE HEALTH

DEPARTMENT. WE DON'T PAY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT TO REVIEW IT AND

THEN CHARGE THE HOSPITAL AGAIN FOR POTENTIAL COMMENTS FROM

THIRD-PARTIES. WE DON'T DO IT IN THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL

CONSERVATION. IF YOU APPLY FOR A SPDES PERMIT OR ANY OTHER PERMIT,

WE DON'T REQUIRE THE APPLICANT TO PAY FOR BOTH THEIR OWN APPLICATION

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

AND ANYONE THAT MIGHT CHALLENGE IT. WE WORK ON A REGULATORY

FRAMEWORK, NOT AN ADVERSARIAL FRAMEWORK. BUT WHAT'S PARTICULARLY

STRIKING TO ME IS THIS BILL SHOWS AN OBVIOUS BIAS. BECAUSE IT SAYS WE'LL

REIMBURSE WITH A BLANK CHECK, I MEAN THERE'S NO STATUTORY RESTRICTIONS.

WE'LL REIMBURSE THOSE WHO ARE CHALLENGE [SIC] IT, WHO CLAIM THEY

REPRESENT UTILITY CUSTOMERS, RESIDENTIAL AND SMALL BUSINESS, BUT WE BAR

BY STATUTE ANY REIMBURSEMENT FOR ANY MANUFACTURING. WHY IS IT THAT

WE SEEM TO HAVE THIS OPEN ANIMOSITY TOWARD MANUFACTURING? IS IT

SOME CONCEPT THAT MAYBE IN NEW YORK STATE IF YOU'RE A MANUFACTURER

AND YOU EMPLOY PEOPLE AND YOU GIVE THEM A FAMILY SUSTAINING WAGE

AND YOU'RE THE BACKBONE OF OUR ECONOMY THAT WE'RE GOING TO EXCLUDE

YOU FROM BEING CONSIDERED ON A REIMBURSEMENT PROGRAM, WHAT'S THAT

ALL ABOUT? WE KNOW AND THE GOVERNOR'S POINTED OUT THAT THIS WILL BE

EXPENSIVE, ALTHOUGH WE'RE NOT TOLD HOW MUCH IT WILL COST. WE DON'T

EVEN HAVE AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MUCH IT WILL COST. AND WE'RE SUPPOSED

TO SIGN OFF ON A BLANK CHECK. LAST YEAR THERE WERE 41 NO VOTES. THE

BILL HASN'T CHANGED SINCE IT WAS VETOED. THE CONCERNS RAISED BY THE

GOVERNOR IN HER VETO MESSAGE HAVE NOT BEEN ADDRESSED. AND

THEREFORE, I CAN'T SUPPORT IT THIS YEAR EITHER. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED. THERE MAY BE THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT,

IN WHICH CASE THEY SHOULD VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR OF THE ASSEMBLY.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS

LEGISLATION AS WE HAVE IN THE PAST. THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO BE A

NEGATIVE SHOULD DO SO AT THEIR SEAT. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I JUST REALLY WANT TO

ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE'S AN UNDERSTANDING THAT WE DO WORK UNDER A

REGULATORY FRAMEWORK. WE HAVE BEEN SINCE THE EXISTENCE OF

GOVERNMENT PRETTY MUCH. BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO REMIND OURSELVES THAT

SOMETIMES THAT REGULATORY FRAMEWORK GROWS SO BUREAUCRATIC THAT IT

KIND OF ALMOST FORGETS THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO

SERVE, AND SOMETIMES THE PEOPLE HAVE TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I THINK

THIS LEGISLATION THAT'S PROVIDED FOR US TODAY BY THE SPONSOR OFFERS AN

OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE THAT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE RATEPAYERS, THE

PEOPLE WHO DO NEED TO USE THESE UTILITY SERVICES. AND QUITE FRANKLY, I

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

-- I DON'T THINK THEY'RE ADVERSE TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION.

THEY JUST WANT THEIR OPINION HEARD, TOO. AND I THINK THIS IS A FAIR

OPPORTUNITY AND I'M VERY PLEASED TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE IN

SUPPORT OF IT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: ARE THERE

ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 5, RULES REPORT NO. 215, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02917, RULES REPORT

NO. 215, GLICK, SIMON, JACKSON, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS, EPSTEIN, L.

ROSENTHAL, MCMAHON, KELLES, FAHY, BURDICK, LAVINE, STERN, COLTON,

HEVESI, DINOWITZ, RIVERA, SIMONE, BURGOS, LEVENBERG, BORES, PAULIN,

REYES, THIELE, SHIMSKY, ARDILA, RAGA, LEE, STECK. AN ACT TO AMEND

THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO MAKING CONTESTS,

COMPETITIONS, TOURNAMENTS AND DERBIES TO TAKE WILDLIFE UNLAWFUL.

ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: ON A

MOTION BY MS. GLICK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

BILL IS ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. GLICK: CERTAINLY, MADAM SPEAKER. THE BILL

PROHIBITS PEOPLE OR ORGANIZATIONS FROM SPONSORING, PROMOTING,

ORGANIZING OR PARTICIPATING IN A CONTEST OR A COMPETITION WITH THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

OBJECTIVE OF TAKING WILDLIFE FOR PRIZES OR ENTERTAINMENT. THIS EXEMPTS

DEER, BEAR AND TURKEY. IN ADDITION, IT EXEMPTS SPECIAL DOG TRAINING

AREAS OF FIELD TRIALS OR SIMILAR K9 PERFORMANCE EVENTS. THIS IN NO WAY

PREVENTS ANYONE FROM TAKING NUISANCE ANIMALS OR ASKING FRIENDS OR

NEIGHBORS TO ASSIST IN TAKING ANIMALS THAT ARE PREDATING ON LIVESTOCK OR

DAMAGING PROPERTY. THESE CONTESTS ARE NOT EFFECTIVE WILDLIFE

MANAGEMENT TOOLS AND ARE IN FACT COUNTERPRODUCTIVE BY DISRUPTING THE

FAMILY STRUCTURE OF SOME SPECIES AND THEREFORE RESULT IN MORE

REPRODUCTION.

ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: MR.

SIMPSON.

MR. SIMPSON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: DOES THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

MS. GLICK: OF COURSE. FOR MR. SIMPSON, ANY DAY.

MR. SIMPSON: GOOD MORNING, MS. GLICK. HOW

ARE YOU? GREAT TO BE HERE.

SO, I WANT TO START OFF BY JUST ASKING SOME QUESTIONS

ABOUT THIS BILL AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS AND WHAT EXISTS ALREADY

FOR HUNTING OPPORTUNITIES IN NEW YORK. SO COLLEAGUES NOW, BECAUSE

THIS IS PREDOMINANTLY AIMED AT COYOTE HUNTING AND COYOTE SPONSORED

HUNTS. I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT PRECIPITATED THIS LEGISLATION.

MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK -- I THINK IT INCLUDES OTHER

SPECIES; SQUIRRELS, FOX, CROWS --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. SIMPSON: RIGHT.

MS. GLICK: -- AND THE LIKE THAT WAS A BROADER ISSUE

IN TERMS OF THE IMPETUS FOR THE BILL.

MR. SIMPSON: SO CURRENTLY THERE'S A -- A SEASON

THAT'S PROMULGATED BY THE DEC THAT ESTABLISHES DATES OF WHEN YOU CAN

START HUNTING COYOTES, WHAT REGION BECAUSE WE HAVE DIFFERENT REGIONS

THAT OPEN AT DIFFERENT TIMES. WE ALSO HAVE BAG LIMITS ESTABLISHED. WE

ALSO HAVE REGULATIONS ON HOW COYOTES ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN -- TAKEN,

WHETHER IT'S AT NIGHT, DURING THE DAY, WITH LIGHTS, YOU CAN EVEN USE

ELECTRONIC CALLS FOR MANY OF THESE ANIMALS, WILDLIFE THAT ARE TAKEN

LEGALLY IN NEW YORK STATE. SO THERE'S A SPORT -- I MEAN THERE'S A --

THERE'S A POPULAR SPORT IN TAKING COYOTES. IT'S A -- IT'S A SPECIALIZED JUST

LIKE DEER HUNTING. PEOPLE ARE -- SOME PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED ON DEER

HUNTING, SOME PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED ON (INAUDIBLE). THIS LEGISLATION, THE

ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HUNTING THAT HAPPENS HERE IN THESE

CONTESTS AND THE HUNTING THAT IS LEGAL AND REGULATED BY NEW YORK STATE

CURRENTLY ARE THE PRIZES OR THE INDUCEMENT, CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY

LIMIT IT TO COYOTES. IT IS --

MR. SIMPSON: WELL, WE CAN DO ANY -- ANY ANIMAL

THAT'S --

MS. GLICK: IT'S -- IT IS -- AND THERE IS NO BAG LIMIT

ON A NUMBER OF ANIMALS WHILE THERE ARE BAG LIMITS ON CERTAIN ANIMALS.

MR. SIMPSON: BUT THERE ARE NO BAG LIMITS ON

SQUIRRELS, SO IT'S THE SAME THING. A LOT OF PEOPLE REALLY TAKE THEIR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SQUIRREL HUNTING SERIOUSLY, TOO. AND THERE'S A SEASON --

MS. GLICK: WELL --

MR. SIMPSON: -- AND A BAG LIMIT, JUST LIKE THESE

CONTESTS OPERATE DURING THOSE OPEN SEASONS, COMPLY WITH THE CURRENT

LEGAL SEASON REQUIREMENTS OR -- OR REGULATIONS THAT DEC HAS. NOBODY'S

EXCEEDING A BAG LIMIT. NOBODY'S HUNTING ILLEGALLY. EVERYBODY'S PAID

FOR THEIR LICENSE. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE PRIZE OR HOW THEY WERE

INDUCED.

MS. GLICK: YEAH. THIS IS ABOUT BANNING WHAT HAS

BEEN REFERRED TO AS KILLING CONTESTS WHERE THERE IS NO INTENTION OF USING

THE FUR, THE MEAT, OR ANY PART OF THE ANIMAL. IT IS JUST A MATTER OF

PAYING A REGISTRATION FEE, WHICH PRESUMABLY THEN GOES INTO A POT FOR

THE PURPOSE OF PAYING OFF A PRIZE FOR KILLING EITHER THE LARGEST NUMBER

OF ANIMALS OR THE BIGGEST ANIMAL. AND THERE ARE -- THIS DOESN'T STOP

ANYONE FROM HUNTING ANY OF THESE SPECIES ON THEIR PROPERTY OR A

NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY, BUT IT DOES SAY THAT CREATING A PRIZE CONTEST IS NOT

A MANAGEMENT TOOL AND IS AN INAPPROPRIATE WAY OF SUGGESTING THAT YOU

ARE IN SOME WAY MANAGING THE -- THE WILDLIFE.

MR. SIMPSON: BUT I WOULD SAY IN THE, YOU KNOW,

LANGUAGE AND -- AND -- AND NARRATIVE THAT -- THAT HAS BEEN PUSHED

AROUND THIS LEGISLATION IS THAT IT'S IN SOME WAYS INHUMANE DIFFERENT

THAN OTHER HUNTING THAT HAPPENS THAT'S LEGAL. THERE IS NO -- IN OTHER

WORDS, THIS GAME IS NOT BEING TORTURED, IT'S NOT BEING TAKEN IN ANY

DIFFERENT MANNER THAN IT IS THAT'S ALREADY LEGAL AND LICENSED BY NEW

YORK STATE. SO THE ONLY THING, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE THAT I CAN FIND THAT I

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

CAN POSSIBLY SEE IS THAT A GROUP OF PEOPLE DECIDED TO GET TOGETHER, AND

AMONGST THEM THEY SAY --

(SNEEZE IN BACKGROUND)

MS. GLICK: BLESS YOU.

MR. SIMPSON: BLESS YOU. THEY SAY FOR THE LARGEST

COYOTE YOU MIGHT WIN $100. THE BIG BUCK CONTEST HAS HAPPENED HERE

IN NEW YORK STATE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. PROBABLY ONE OF OUR MOST

FAMOUS, GREATEST MEMBERS OF THIS BODY, ASSEMBLYMEMBER ROOSEVELT

AT THE TIME WAS A GREAT HUNTING ENTHUSIAST IN THE ADIRONDACKS. AND

THERE WERE MANY PHOTOS WITH TROPHIES FOR THE LARGEST BUCK. THE MOST

BEAUTIFUL ANIMAL THAT HE TOOK IN THE ADIRONDACKS. WHAT IS THE

DIFFERENCE? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH OTHER THAN

TAKING AWAY A PRIZE OR A BENEFIT OR SOMETHING, AN ADVERTISEMENT OF AN

ORGANIZED HUNT, BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL GOING TO EXIST WITH DEER. OUR AREA

IS KNOWN FOR SOME OF THE BEST BASS FISHING IN LAKE CHAMPLAIN, THE

ADIRONDACKS. WE HAVE -- AND THAT'S EXCLUDED, BY THE WAY, IF I'M

CORRECT.

MS. GLICK: WELL --

MR. SIMPSON: THERE'S A -- THERE'S A BASS FISHING

TOURNAMENT THAT HAPPENS ON A LAKE NEAR MY HOUSE. THERE'S HUNDREDS

OF BASS THAT ARE HOOKED BY A BARBED HOOK AND RELEASED --

MS. GLICK: FISH ARE NOT WILDLIFE.

MR. SIMPSON: OKAY, BUT STILL IT'S A CONTEST WITH A

MANAGED -- IT'S A MANAGED RESOURCE OF NEW YORK THAT'S INDUCED BY A

COMPETITION OF A THOUGHT OF WINNING A PRIZE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. GLICK: IS THERE A QUESTION? OR ARE YOU ON THE

BILL OR SHOULD I SIT DOWN?

MR. SIMPSON: NO, I'M ON THE BILL. BUT I'M ASKING

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE AND -- AND YOU TALKED ABOUT WELL, THERE'S -- WELL,

THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE IN THE HUNTING METHODS, RIGHT? THERE'S NO --

NOBODY EXCEEDING -- IS THERE ANYBODY EXCEEDING THE BAG LIMIT?

MS. GLICK: THERE ISN'T A BAG LIMIT FOR A NUMBER OF

SPECIES, I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP TEDDY ROOSEVELT WHO WAS ACTUALLY

HORRIFIED BY THE DECIMATION OF CERTAIN SPECIES AND CREATED A CLUB OF

FOCUS ON THE ETHICAL HUNTING. AND I BELIEVE IT MAY BE AN APOCRYPHAL

STORY BUT THAT HE -- THAT THE TEDDY BEAR IS THE RESULT OF SOMEBODY HAVING

TIED A -- A BEAR TO A TREE AND HE SAID WELL, THAT'S NOT A FAIR CHASE, I'M NOT

GOING TO SHOOT THAT ANIMAL. I WILL SAY TO YOU SINCE YOU FOCUSED

PRIMARILY ON COYOTES, I WILL SAY TO YOU THAT THERE ARE WILDLIFE EXPERTS

FROM A VARIETY OF -- OF HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS

LIKE THE YELLOWSTONE ECOLOGICAL RESEARCH CENTER AND THEY ARE -- THEIR

OPINION, NOT MINE, THEIR OPINION IS IS THERE'S NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE THAT

INDISCRIMINATE KILLING OF COYOTES OR OTHER PREDATORS EFFECTIVELY SERVES

ANY GENUINE INTEREST IN MANAGING OTHER SPECIES. AND IN FACT,

INDISCRIMINATE KILLING ACTUALLY RESULTS IN THE DISRUPTION OF A PREDATOR'S

SOCIAL STRUCTURE AND FORGING ECOLOGY IN WAYS THAT INCREASE THE

LIKELIHOOD OF PREDATION AND MORE REPRODUCTION. NOT MY WORDS. THIS

COMES FROM THE PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT THE DEPARTMENT OF

ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR

OF ENVIRONMENTAL AND NATURAL RESOURCES AT OHIO STATE, PROFESSOR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

EMERITUS FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO BOULDER, AND I WILL SAY THAT

THERE'S A LONG LIST, I WON'T BORE EVERYBODY. BUT I WILL SAY THAT, YOU

KNOW, STATES NEARBY THAT HAVE A GREAT HISTORY AND A STORIED TRADITION IN

HUNTING LIKE VERMONT HAVE BANNED THIS PRACTICE AS WELL.

MR. SIMPSON: WELL, YOU KNOW, YELLOWSTONE IS A

LONG WAYS FROM THE ADIRONDACKS. WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT OTHER STATES

DO AND WHAT OTHER CITIES AND WHAT OTHER PEOPLE, I MEAN WE COULD GO

ON AND ON. BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU QUOTED

INDISCRIMINATE. WHAT MAKES IT INDISCRIMINATE WHEN THERE'S A -- A PRIZE

AT THE END OF THE DAY AS OPPOSED TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT GO OUT

COYOTE HUNTING THAT ARE NOT EXCEEDING ANY BAG LIMITS IN ANY WAY

FOLLOWING THE RULES, BECAUSE EVERYONE THAT IS PARTICIPATING IN THESE

CONTESTS ARE FOLLOWING THE RULES LAID OUT BY DEC. DEC IS CHARGED WITH

THE AUTHORITY TO MANAGE THE POPULATION TO PREVENT AN EXTINCTION --

EXTINCTION -- EXTINCTION -- EXTINCTION -- I CAN'T EVEN PRONOUNCE THAT THIS

MORNING OR, YOU KNOW, A NEGATIVE EFFECT TO THE RESOURCE.

MS. GLICK: WELL --

MR. SIMPSON: AND THEY HAVEN'T ISSUED ANYTHING,

HAVE THEY?

MS. GLICK: ONE, DEC SINCE THEY DON'T MANAGE

THESE CONTESTS DO NOT TAKE THEM INTO ACCOUNT, SO YOU ARE DISRUPTING THE

WAY IN WHICH DEC CAN IN FACT MANAGE OUR NATURAL RESOURCES, THAT'S

NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, I WOULD SAY WHAT'S INDISCRIMINATE IS THE

ENCOURAGEMENT FOR THE LARGEST NUMBER OF ANIMALS, WHICH IS TYPICALLY

THE ONE OF THE MORE PROMINENT WAYS IN WHICH PEOPLE GET TO WIN THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PRIZE IS THE LARGEST NUMBER. IF PEOPLE ARE GOING OUT HUNTING AND THERE'S

NO BAG LIMIT, THEY MAY DECIDE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL CALL IT A DAY AFTER

THEY'VE GOTTEN A FEW ANIMALS AND A FEW OTHER OF THEIR FRIENDS AND

THEY'LL CALL IT A DAY BUT THIS IS, I CALL IT INDISCRIMINATE AND OTHERS, OTHER

WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT SPECIALISTS CALL IT INDISCRIMINATE BECAUSE YOU'RE

OFFERING A PRIZE USUALLY FOR THE LARGEST NUMBER OF ANIMALS. AND

THEREFORE THE ENCOURAGEMENT IS TO KILL AS MANY ANIMALS AS POSSIBLE, NOT

IN COMPETITION WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEKING TO KILL THE LARGEST

NUMBER OF ANIMALS. SO THIS ISN'T ABOUT SOME FOLKS GETTING TOGETHER AND

DECIDING, LET'S GO HUNTING AND, YOU KNOW, LET'S CALL IT A DAY FOR WHEN

WE BREAK FOR LUNCH OR WE'LL GO GET A BEER DOWN AT THE BAR AT 4:00. THIS

IS ABOUT PEOPLE HAVING -- A NUMBER OF PEOPLE ALL TRYING TO KILL THE

LARGEST NUMBER OF ANIMALS. THAT'S WHY I CALL IT AND OTHERS CALL IT

INDISCRIMINATE.

MR. SIMPSON: NOW, WOULD -- IF A GROUP OF HUNTERS

GOT TOGETHER AND THEY DECIDED THEY WERE GOING TO GO COYOTE HUNTING,

LET'S SAY TEN PEOPLE. AND THEY SAY AMONGST THEMSELVES, THEY DIDN'T

PROMOTE IT IN THE PAPER, THEY DIDN'T ADVERTISE ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND THEY

SAY THE WINNER BUYS DINNER OR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE EVERYBODY ELSE BUYS

-- YOU KNOW, MAYBE EVERYBODY THROWS IN FIVE BUCKS UNOFFICIALLY AND

THEY GO TO DINNER AND, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO BE BROAD ENOUGH THAT THE

LANGUAGE INCLUDES THE SPORT ANY --

MS. GLICK: WELL --

MR. SIMPSON: -- FOR ENTERTAINMENT. ENTERTAINMENT

IS A VERY BROAD WORD SO...

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. GLICK: I WILL -- I WILL RESPOND TO THAT SAYING

THAT ALTHOUGH EVERYTHING'S CHANGED IN TERMS OF GAMBLING THESE DAYS,

BUT I WILL SAY THAT IF -- WHEN GAMBLING WAS NOT AS PROLIFIC AND

ENCOURAGED AS IT IS TODAY, FIVE GUYS GET TOGETHER AND HAVE A POKER

GAME AND, SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, WALKS OFF WITH A FEW BUCKS AT THE

END OF THE NIGHT. NOBODY IS LOOKING TO -- WOULD A, KNOW ABOUT IT

UNLESS SOMEBODY WAS BRAGGING, AND BASICALLY THAT WAS NEVER ANYTHING

THAT ANY LEVEL OF LAW ENFORCEMENT WAS PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN. WHAT

THEY WERE INTERESTED IN WERE ORGANIZED, PROMOTED AND SPONSORED

ACTIVITIES THAT WERE -- AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL SAYS. IT SAYS SPONSORING,

ORGANIZING, PROMOTING THESE CONTESTS. SO IT'S A SPECIOUS ARGUMENT TO

SAY A FEW GUYS GET TOGETHER AND -- AND -- AND -- MAKE A -- A BET

AMONGST THEMSELVES. THAT'S CLEARLY NOT WHAT THE BILL IS INTENDED TO OR

WOULD HAVE ANY ABILITY TO -- TO DIRECT ANY ACTIVITY TOWARDS. THIS IS

ABOUT CONTESTS THAT ARE PUBLICIZED, SPONSORED, PROMOTED AND WHERE

THERE ARE -- THERE IS PRIZE MONEY AVAILABLE BASED ON BASICALLY

REGISTRATION FEES. THIS IS NOT -- THIS ISN'T THREE GUYS GETTING TOGETHER

AND SAYING WHOEVER SHOOTS THE MOST SQUIRRELS IS GOING TO BUY EVERY --

BUY A ROUND OF DRINKS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE REGISTERING, PAYING A FEE

AND THEN THOSE INDIVIDUALS GOING OUT WITH THE INTENTION OF KILLING THE

LARGEST NUMBER OF ANIMALS, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY DISPLAYING THE,

YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT YOU KILLED THE MOST ANIMALS AND

THEN THAT PERSON WINS A -- A -- A PRIZE. AND THE PRIZES SOMETIMES ARE

QUITE LARGE SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT -- THAT -- THAT IS NOT JUST A FEW BUCKS ACROSS

THE TABLE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. SIMPSON: I HATE TO ASK THIS QUESTION BUT WHAT

WAS THE THOUGHT BEHIND LEAVING WHITE-TAILED DEER, TURKEY AND BEAR OUT

OF IT --

MS. GLICK: WELL, THOSE --

MR. SIMPSON: -- BECAUSE THERE ARE CONTESTS THAT,

YOU KNOW, CHARGE $5, $10, $25.

MS. GLICK: THERE ARE SPECIAL MANAGEMENT PLANS BY

DEC FOR THOSE SPECIES AND THERE ARE TAGS, BAG LIMITS AND SO FORTH. SO

THEY ARE A HIGHLY-MANAGED SPECIES. AND FRANKLY, IF YOU WANT TO CUT

DOWN ON THEM YOU DON'T WANT TO KILL ALL OF THE COYOTES BECAUSE YOU

WANT THEM TO BE HUNTING THE DEER AND NOT SOMEBODY'S COW.

MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU, MS. GLICK,

FOR --

MS. GLICK: THANK YOU.

MR. SIMPSON: -- THE DEBATE.

ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL.

MR. SIMPSON: SO THIS BILL -- THERE APPEARS TO

PRESENT HUNTING THESE ANIMALS THAT ARE COVERED UNDER THIS BILL AS

SOMEHOW INHUMANE. PEOPLE WANTON TAKING OF ANIMALS WHEN ALL OF

THOSE PEOPLE THAT PARTICIPATE IN THESE CONTESTS FOLLOW THE REGS TO THE

TEE. THERE'S NOBODY EXCEEDING THE BAG LIMITS. THERE'S NOBODY THAT'S

WIPING OUT A POPULATION, IT'S A FAIR CHASE. THESE ARE DIFFICULT ANIMALS

TO TAKE. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR MANY, MANY YEARS AND THERE

IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND OTHER HUNTING WHICH IS STILL GOING TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

CONTINUE HUNTING THESE ANIMALS OTHER THAN THE CONTEST OR THE PRIZE.

AND THE ONE THING THAT WE NEED IN NEW YORK IS MORE HUNTERS AND

MORE YOUTH GETTING ENGAGED IN THIS AND THIS IS ONE WAY THAT CAN

PROMOTE THIS ACTIVITY IN A WAY THAT ALIGNS WITH NEW YORK STATE'S

MISSION OF MANAGING ITS RESOURCES AND THIS BILL WILL INTERFERE WITH THAT

AND CONTINUE TO CREATE LESS AND LESS PEOPLE INTERESTED IN HUNTING AND,

THEREFORE, YOU KNOW, KIDS AND OTHER PEOPLE GETTING INTO THINGS THAT

THEY SHOULDN'T BE.

SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES TO OPPOSE

THIS BILL. THIS BILL DOES NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE NATURAL RESOURCES IN

NEW YORK AND DOES NOT HARM THE RESOURCES IN NEW YORK, ALTHOUGH IT'S

MADE TO SOUND LIKE IT IS. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. LEMONDES.

MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. GLICK: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. I LISTENED INTENTLY TO

THE PREVIOUS DEBATE AND I'M -- I'M WONDERING IF YOU COULD ELABORATE

FOR ME THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HUNTING DERBY AND A FISHING DERBY.

MS. GLICK: WELL, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THIS IS

ABOUT WILDLIFE AND FISH ARE NOT WILDLIFE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. LEMONDES: BUT THE ESSENCE OF THE DERBY IS

WHAT'S -- IS -- IS -- IS WHAT THIS BILL IS TARGETING, CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: WELL, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING DO WITH

FISH.

MR. LEMONDES: CORRECT, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING

TO DO WITH FISH, I'M USING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE. DERBY TO DERBY. SOCIAL

ASPECT OF A SPONSORED DERBY THAT'S -- THAT'S EXECUTED LEGALLY WITHIN OUR

STATE.

MS. GLICK: IS THERE A QUESTION?

MR. LEMONDES: I'M JUST LOOKING FOR YOUR

COMMENT AND CLARIFICATION ON WHY A HUNTING DERBY, PRESUMABLY

AGAINST, AS I GATHER, SQUIRRELS AND COYOTES IS TARGETED BY THIS BILL AND

OTHER DERBYS ARE NOT.

MS. GLICK: WELL, WE FOCUSED ON THE WILDLIFE

BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT IT IN PART DISRUPTS THE MANAGEMENT OF CERTAIN

NATURAL RESOURCES. THOSE RESOURCES ARE DISRUPTED WHEN THERE IS A

INDISCRIMINATE KILLING OF A LARGE NUMBER OF ANIMALS AND MAY IN FACT BE

COUNTERPRODUCTIVE IN THAT, PARTICULARLY WITH CERTAIN SPECIES, IT LEADS TO

THE REPRODUCTION, THE GREATER REPRODUCTION OF THOSE SAME SPECIES. SO

IT'S NOT A MANAGEMENT TOOL AND IN FACT IT'S A, IF YOU WILL, A

COUNTER-MANAGEMENT TOOL.

MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. WE CAN -- WE CAN

DISAGREE ON THAT. I -- I WOULD LIKE CLARIFICATION IF -- IF YOU DON'T MIND

ON IF I AS A PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER INVITED MY COLLEAGUES TO HUNT

COYOTES, THAT'S OKAY, BUT IF I CHARGED THEM AND SAID WHOEVER SHOOTS THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

LARGEST COYOTE, FOR EXAMPLE, GETS THE KITTY, THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL UNDER

THIS BILL, CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: WELL, IF YOU ARE -- YOU CAN -- IT DOESN'T

PREVENT ANYONE FROM INVITING FRIENDS OR NEIGHBORS IN ORDER TO HUNT ON

THEIR LAND. IT DOESN'T PREVENT YOU FROM OFFERING SOMEONE REFRESHMENTS

AT THE END OF THE DAY. WHAT IT DOES SAY IS THAT SPONSORING AND

PUBLICIZING AND PROMOTING A CONTEST IS PROHIBITED.

MR. LEMONDES: SO WHAT'S THE ESSENCE OF IT? IT

SEEMS TO ME AS A LIFELONG HUNTER, CONSERVATIONIST AND FARMER THAT THE

ESSENCE OF THIS IS ONE MORE ATTACK ON 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND

HUNTING RIGHTS.

MS. GLICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, NOBODY'S TAKING

ANYBODY'S GUN AWAY FROM THEM AND THEY ARE FREE TO SHOOT AS MANY

SQUIRREL AS THEY WANT. THEY JUST CAN'T HAVE -- WHICH IS FREQUENTLY

ORGANIZED BY A LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT OR A LOCAL BAR OR GRILL FROM

PROMOTING A CONTEST THAT IS -- FOR WHICH YOU PAY MONEY TO PARTICIPATE

WITH THE HOPES THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU WILL BE THE ONE OUT OF ALL

OF THESE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WILL HAVE EITHER KILLED THE LARGEST OR THE

GREATEST NUMBER OF ANIMALS OF WHATEVER PARTICULAR SPECIES HAS BEEN

TARGETED. BUT I WILL SAY TO YOU PARTICULARLY SINCE YOU MENTIONED

FARMING, THAT NOTHING PREVENTS ANYONE FROM INVITING FRIENDS AND

NEIGHBORS OVER TO HELP HUNT A PACK THAT IS PREDATING ON THEIR LIVESTOCK.

AND WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THAT IS IT IS IMPORTANT AT THE TIME AND THE

LOCATION TO GO AFTER THAT -- THOSE ANIMALS THAT ARE PREDATING, NOT TO WAIT

THREE WEEKS AND ANOTHER PLACE BECAUSE THAT IS LIKELY NOT TO IN FACT BE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE -- THE ANIMALS THAT ARE PREDATING ON YOUR PROPERTY.

MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT

UP SQUIRRELS. SO ARE RED, GRAY SQUIRRELS AND CHIPMUNKS COVERED UNDER

THIS OR NOT?

MS. GLICK: YES.

MR. LEMONDES: THEY ARE. ARE YOU AWARE OF THE

ECONOMIC IMPORTANCE OF BEING ABLE TO MANAGE SQUIRREL POPULATIONS,

PARTICULARLY IN THE CATSKILL REGION, FOR THE PRODUCTION OF GINSENG

WHICH IS ONE OF NEW YORK'S MOST IMPORTANT CROPS.

MS. GLICK: THERE'S -- THERE'S NO -- I WILL REPEAT IT.

I'LL REPEAT THE SAME PHRASE TWO OR THREE TIMES, THEN AFTER THAT I -- I

WON'T CONTINUE TO SAY THE SAME THING BECAUSE IT -- IT BORES THE REST OF

THE MEMBERS. NOTHING IN THE BILL PREVENTS ANYONE FROM KILLING AS

MANY NUISANCE ANIMALS ON THEIR PROPERTY AS THEY CHOOSE TO. BUT IT

MAY NOT IN FACT BE AS EFFECTIVE AS ONE MIGHT THINK BECAUSE IT MIGHT IN

FACT RESULT IN MORE REPRODUCTION, NOT ELIMINATION.

MR. LEMONDES: WELL, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

SQUIRRELS AND GINSENG, IT'S -- IT'S DIFFERENT. AND SO I'M JUST RAISING MY

POINT --

MS. GLICK: I UNDERSTAND.

MR. LEMONDES: -- THAT I THINK THIS IS AN

UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF THIS BILL THAT IT MIGHT -- IT MIGHT IMPEDE THE

ABILITY OF THOSE FARMERS THAT RAISE THAT CROP TO MANAGE THEIR NUMBER

ONE PREDATION SOURCE ON THEIR CROP.

SO, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. THIS BILL IS

DANGEROUS FOR MANY REASONS. AGAIN, THE ESSENCE OF IT IS ANOTHER ATTACK

ON 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND HUNTING RIGHTS IN NEW YORK STATE. IT'S

CLOAKED IN MANAGEMENT PRACTICES THAT WILL ACTUALLY QUOTE UNQUOTE, AS I

UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, CONTROL FOR CURRENT RIGHTS BUT JUST STOP THE ABILITY

OF ORGANIZATIONS, GROUPS, ET CETERA FROM CHARGING OR MAKING ANY

MONEY OFF OF A CONTEST, WHICH IF THE SPECIES WE WERE TALKING ABOUT

WERE FISH, WOULD BE -- WOULD BE OKAY AND FINE. AND SO IT'S THE

ESSENCE -- IT'S THE ESSENCE OF WHAT'S -- WHAT'S BEING POTENTIALLY PUT INTO

PLAY HERE. AND I WANT TO SPEAK -- I'M GLAD -- I'M GLAD WE TALKED ABOUT

AGRICULTURE BECAUSE I WANT TO PUT FORTH A FEW FACTS ABOUT AGRICULTURE

AND COYOTES. AND I WOULD LOVE TO SHOW ALL OF YOU WHAT A COYOTE KILL

ON A BABY LAMB LOOKS LIKE AND HOW MANY THEY KILL. GOATS, LAMBS,

CHICKENS, TURKEYS, OWL, ET CETERA. JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, DEPREDATION

ACCOUNTED FOR 30 PERCENT OF TOTAL SHEEP LOSS AND DEATHS, 40 PERCENT OF

LAMB DEATHS AND 15 PERCENT OF TOTAL PRODUCTION COSTS. THAT MEANS

EVERY TIME YOU GO TO A STORE AND BUY A RACK OF LAMB OR A LAMB CHOP,

IT'S 15 PERCENT HIGHER BECAUSE WE'RE LETTING MORE COYOTES RUN AROUND.

EVERY COYOTE THAT WE COULD KILL - AND I UNDERSTAND THE STUDY THAT -- THAT

YOU'RE REFERENCING - EVERY SINGLE COYOTE THAT WE COULD KILL DOES DISRUPT

THAT -- THEIR SOCIAL ORDER, AND ULTIMATELY THE FEWER COYOTES WE HAVE, THE

BETTER. WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR FOOD COSTS, FOOD SECURITY, PROTEIN

DIVERSITY, ALL OF THIS IS IMPACTED BY THE COYOTE, WHICH IF YOU REMEMBER

THOSE OF US THAT ARE OVER 40, 35, 40 YEARS AGO THERE PROBABLY -- THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

NUMBER OF COYOTES IN NEW YORK STATE WERE ALMOST NON-EXISTENT. NOW

THEY'RE BACK. THEY -- THEY -- THEY IMPACT SEVERAL MANAGEMENT

PRACTICES BY THE DEC, NUMBER ONE IS THE TURKEY REINTRODUCTION

PROGRAM. COYOTES ARE HUGE PREDATORS ON TURKEYS, AND I WANT TO -- I

WANT TO GO BACK FOR A MINUTE JUST TO MAKE SURE WE COVER -- THE DATA I

HAVE IS 2019 AND THIS IS NATIONAL. FORTY PERCENT -- 47 PERCENT OF KILLS

OF SHEEP NATIONALLY WERE FROM THE COYOTE ALONE. YOU MIGHT THINK

BLACK BEAR, GRIZZLY BEAR, MOUNTAIN LION, THAT'S ABOUT FOUR PERCENT TO

FIVE PERCENT. NUMBER TWO, 34 PERCENT, WILD DOGS, COY DOG HYBRIDS,

AND WOLF -- AND -- AND WOLF BREEDS WITH THE -- WITH THE COYOTE.

THIRTY-FOUR PERCENT AGAIN BY DOGS. THE -- THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THAT

IS 51.4 MILLION SPENT ON NON-LETHAL CONTROL METHODS, 4.7 MILLION ON

LETHAL CONTROL METHODS. AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS, IS THAT AS -- AS WE TRY

TO YET CURTAIL HUNTING RIGHTS EVEN GREATER WITH SOMETHING ON THE FRINGE,

WHAT'S NEXT? THAT'S THE -- THAT'S THE QUESTION HERE. WHAT'S NEXT?

WHAT'S COMING NEXT? AND I WANT TO GO BACK TO SHEEP AGAIN BECAUSE

WHAT MOST PEOPLE MAY NOT REALIZE IS ONE OF THE IMPACTS OF THE CLCPA

IS EVERY TIME ANOTHER SOLAR PANEL IS SET UP IN NEW YORK STATE IT

INCREASES THE NEED FOR SHEEP FOR MANAGEMENT. WHETHER YOU RECOGNIZE

THAT OR NOT, THAT'LL COME OUT OVER -- OVER THE ENSUING YEARS BECAUSE

SHEEP ARE THE ONLY SPECIES THAT CAN -- THAT CAN CONTROL IN THAT

ENVIRONMENT. SHEEP ARE PREDATED BY COYOTES EXTENSIVELY. EVERY

COYOTE THAT CAN BE TAKEN REDUCES YOUR COST TO FOOD IN THE GROCERY STORE.

JUST THINK ABOUT THAT. SO WHEN YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THE HIGH

PRODUCTION COST OF AGRICULTURAL PROTEIN THAT YOU PURCHASED, DON'T FORGET

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO RAISE THAT COST ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LEDGER.

I WANT TO GIVE ONE EXAMPLE OF ENERGY AND CONTROL THAT

SHEEP PROVIDE. AND AGAIN, THIS COMES BACK TO THE COYOTE, IT COMES

BACK TO THIS BILL AND HOW THIS BILL WILL IMPEDE HUNTING RIGHTS, HOW IT

WILL IMPEDE THE TAKING OF COYOTES, ONE OF OUR MOST ECONOMICALLY-

DESTRUCTIVE SPECIES IN NEW YORK STATE. IT COSTS 60 CENTS PER ACRE TO

GRAZE NOXIOUS WEEDS AND PLANTS WITH SHEEP. IT COSTS $35 PER ACRE TO

SPRAY VIA HELICOPTER WITH HERBICIDES. WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH

THIS BILL? AGAIN, THE RELATIVE IMPORTANCE OF SHEEP, WHICH THEIR NUMBER

ONE PREDATION SOURCE IN THIS STATE IS THE COYOTE, WILL INCREASE AS EACH

YEAR PASSES AND WITH THE INSTALLATION OF EACH NEW SOLAR PANEL, WHETHER

YOU RECOGNIZE THAT OR NOT. I COULD SPEAK FOREVER ON THIS. SKI RESORTS,

VINEYARDS, THEY'RE ALL RESORTING TO SHEEP FOR MANAGEMENT BECAUSE IT'S

CHEAPER, REDUCES CARBON FOOTPRINT, HELPS WITH SEQUESTRATION, ALL OF THE

THINGS THAT THE CLCPA CLAIMS TO PROVIDE. COYOTES ALSO KILL DOMESTIC

DOGS, CATS, CHICKENS, EVERYTHING THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE IN YOUR BACKYARD

OR IN YOUR HOME COYOTES TARGET MERCILESSLY AND DESTROY THEM.

SO TO SUM THIS ALL UP, IT'S MY BELIEF THAT THIS BILL IS AN

EXPLICIT INFRINGEMENT ON HUNTING RIGHTS AND 2ND AMENDMENT -- 2ND

AMENDMENT PRIVILEGES THAT WE AS AMERICANS AND NEW YORKERS HOLD

VERY, VERY DEARLY CLOAKED IN ALL OTHER THINGS, AS I PREVIOUSLY SAID,

NONETHELESS AN OVERT ATTACK. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. SMULLEN.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE MEMBER FROM THE 66TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT YIELD FOR SOME

QUESTIONS?

MS. GLICK: CERTAINLY, MR. SMULLEN.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK YIELDS.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIR. I -- I

APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE HERE IN PUBLIC

BECAUSE IT'S BEEN -- WE'VE DEBATED IT IN THE PAST AND WE'LL PROBABLY BE

DEBATING IT IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THESE HUNTING BILLS THAT

YOUR COMMITTEE HAS JURISDICTION OVER. I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU RIGHT

UP FRONT, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN HUNTING?

MS. GLICK: NO.

MR. SMULLEN: SO, THEREFORE, I ASSUME YOU HAVING

NOT BEEN HUNTING, YOU DON'T HAVE A HUNTING LICENSE?

MS. GLICK: NO, THOUGH, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE

RELEVANCE OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT PROFESSIONALS

HAVE SAID HAS TO DO WITH WHETHER I HAVE A HUNTING OR A FISHING LICENSE.

I DO HAVE A ENGLISH DEGREE SO I CAN READ.

MR. SMULLEN: SURE. WELL, WE'RE ALL LAW-ABIDING

CITIZENS IN THE HUNTING COMMUNITY, AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT AS

WE -- AS WE TALK ABOUT THESE BILLS AND ABOUT WHAT IS LAWFUL AND

UNLAWFUL, THAT WE'RE ON THE SAME SHEET OF MUSIC AS FAR AS WHAT HUNTERS

HAVE TO DO IN NEW YORK STATE TO ADHERE TO THE REGULATIONS. NOW, HOW

IS HUNTING REGULATION PAID FOR IN NEW YORK STATE?

MS. GLICK: I ASSUME A GREAT DEAL OF IT IS STATE

DOLLARS TO DEC AND THE CONSERVATION FUND.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. SMULLEN: SO SOME OF IT IS FROM HUNTERS

THEMSELVES WHO PAY FOR A LICENCE EACH YEAR WHICH GOES TO THE DEC

AND THAT PAYS FOR WHAT USED TO BE CALLED GAME WARDENS WHICH ARE NOW

CALLED ENCON POLICE THAT -- THAT ENFORCE THE HUNTING REGULATIONS UNDER

THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW. THIS LAW THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING

TO CHANGE, IS THAT UNDER THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW?

MS. GLICK: YES.

MR. SMULLEN: OKAY. SO WHERE DID YOU COME TO

THE -- THE IDEA OF THE FINES THAT WOULD BE LEVIED FOR VIOLATIONS OF THIS

LAW?

MS. GLICK: WE TALKED WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT

STAKEHOLDERS, SOME OF WHOM IN FACT ARE HUNTERS. WE HAVE A -- A MEMO

FROM FOLKS WHO ARE FROM VARIOUS PARTS OF THE STATE; OTSEGO COUNTY,

SUFFOLK COUNTY, ALBANY, ERIE, ONONDAGA, ESSEX. AND IN DISCUSSING IT,

WE WANTED TO MAKE IT NOT SO BURDENSOME. THEY'RE SORT OF IN LINE WITH

VIOLATIONS THAT DEC HAS AROUND HUNTING, IN GENERAL. SO IF YOU --

HUNTING IS RESTRICTED, YOU HAVE A SEASON, IF YOU TAKE A -- A DEER OUT OF

SEASON - AND I HAVE WITNESSED IN ROSCOE IN DELAWARE COUNTY AT THE

BORDER OF DELAWARE COUNTY, DEC POLICE, THE WEEK BEFORE HUNTING

SEASON STARTS, SETTING UP THERE TO SEE THAT NOBODY IS COMING WITH A DEER

THAT'S BEEN TAKEN OUT OF SEASON, PRESUMABLY IF THEY HAVE, THEY WOULD

RECEIVE A FINE WHETHER THEY HAD A HUNTING LICENSE OR NOT.

MR. SMULLEN: AND IS THIS A VIOLATION OR IS IT

CONSIDERED A CRIME?

MS. GLICK: IT'S A VIOLATION.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. SMULLEN: IT'S A VIOLATION. SO SOMEONE THAT

VIOLATED THIS -- THIS LAW THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING WOULD NOT HAVE A

CRIMINAL RECORD, THEY WOULD HAVE A ADMINISTRATIVE RECORD WITHIN THE

STATE SYSTEM.

MS. GLICK: YEAH, THEY WOULD PAY A FINE.

MR. SMULLEN: THEY WOULD PAY A FINE. AND THAT

FINE WOULD BE HOW MUCH?

MS. GLICK: FIVE HUNDRED FOR -- UP TO 500,

PRESUMABLY THEY COULD BE FINED LESS, RIGHT? IT'S UP TO 500 IN THE FIRST

INSTANCE.

(PAUSE)

OKAY. IT'S NOT LESS THAN 500 AND UP TO 2,000.

MR. SMULLEN: UP TO $2,000. SO IF A FIRE

COMPANY HAD A -- A CONTEST FOR SQUIRREL SAY, WHAT IS THE -- WHAT IS THE

BAG LIMIT FOR RED SQUIRRELS IN NEW YORK STATE?

MS. GLICK: THERE ARE NO LIMITS ON COYOTE,

RACCOONS, FOX, SKUNK, POSSUM, WEASEL, BOBCAT, SNIPE, RAILS, CROW,

WOODCOCK. THERE -- THERE'S NO BAG LIMIT THERE. THERE ARE BAG LIMITS

FOR GROUSE, RABBIT, HARE, (INAUDIBLE). THERE IS IN FACT A BAG LIMIT ON

GRAY, BLACK AND FOX SQUIRRELS INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH. SO -- BUT THERE IS --

THEY ARE -- RED SQUIRRELS ARE AN UNPROTECTED SPECIES.

MR. SMULLEN: AND THAT'S PROBABLY LIKE COYOTES

BECAUSE THEY'RE A NUISANCE SPECIES THAT MOST PEOPLE IN THE -- IN THE

AREAS THAT I'M FROM CONSIDER THEM TO BE.

SO, IF THERE AREN'T BAG LIMITS ON A LOT OF THESE WILDLIFE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SPECIES, WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE OF BANNING A CONTEST IF THERE IS NO

BAG LIMIT, IF YOU COULD JUST HUNT AS MANY AS YOU WANTED TO BASED ON

THE CURRENT DEC REGULATIONS WHICH HAVE BEEN KNOWN AND UNDERSTOOD

AND ENFORCED AND HAVE BEEN REVIEWED BY OUR -- OUR ACTUAL WILDLIFE

ECOLOGISTS IN THE STATE DEC?

MS. GLICK: WELL, CERTAINLY WE'VE LOOKED AT

INFORMATION FROM EXPERTS IN WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT.

MR. SMULLEN: WHO'S -- WHO'S A BETTER EXPERT IN

NEW YORK STATE THAN DEC?

MS. GLICK: WELL, DEC CERTAINLY AS A -- A STATE

AGENCY IS IMPORTANT AND IS A MANAGEMENT OVERSIGHT AGENCY. BUT SINCE

THEY DO NOT INTERACT WITH THE CONTEST, THEY DON'T MANAGE THOSE. THOSE

ARE ACTUALLY, IN MY VIEW, UNDERMINING THE POTENTIAL FOR DEC TO DO

PROPER MANAGEMENT BY HAVING WHAT WOULD BE PRESUMABLY A LARGER

NUMBER OF ANIMALS KILLED IN A SPECIFIC AREA DISRUPTING - PARTICULARLY

WHEN IT COMES TO COYOTES - DISRUPTING THE -- THE PACK AND IN FACT

PRODUCING MORE COYOTES AS A RESULT. SO I THINK THAT FROM A POINT OF

VIEW OF RESPECTING DEC, ONE WOULD SEE THESE CONTESTS AS UNDERMINING

THEIR ABILITY TO DO THEIR MANAGEMENT.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, I DON'T THINK THE ENCON

POLICE THAT ARE IN EVERY COMMUNITY THAT INTERACT WITH HUNTERS ON A

ROUTINE BASIS THAT MANAGE THE REPORTING OF ALL THE TAKING OF ALL THE

ANIMALS ACROSS THE STATE. THEY HAVE A -- A PRETTY DIRECT LINE TO THEIR

REGIONAL DEC HEADQUARTERS, TO THE ACTUAL MANAGERS OF THOSE

POPULATIONS AT THE DEC HEADQUARTERS IN ALBANY. SO, YOU MENTIONED IN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

YOUR MEMO THAT ONE OF THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT YOU HAD CONSULTED WITH

IS THE WORLD HUMANE SOCIETY. COULD YOU TELL ME WHY YOU WOULD SEEK

AN ORGANIZATION -- A POLICY AND ADVOCACY ORGANIZATION FOR SUCH A BILL?

MS. GLICK: WELL, THEY'VE REACHED OUT TO US. WE

WERE LOOKING AT, AS I SAID, PROJECT COYOTE WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THE

CHAIRMAN OF THE OREGON FISH AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION, THE PRESIDENT

OF THE CALIFORNIA FISH AND GAME COMMISSION. THESE GENTLEMEN

DENOUNCED THESE EVENTS AS UNETHICAL AND AN ANACHRONISM WITH NO

PLACE IN MODERN WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT. I -- I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU

KNOW, DEC DOESN'T WANT TO NECESSARILY STEP INTO THIS SPACE, ALTHOUGH

THEY HAVE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MANAGING WILDLIFE AND THIS -- THESE

CONTESTS ARE NOT WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT TOOLS. THEY ARE AN

ENTERTAINMENT, AS ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES MENTIONED, A SOCIAL

OPPORTUNITY. I JUST THINK THAT THIS IS AN INAPPROPRIATE WAY OF REACTING

TO -- WE DO -- WE'VE DONE A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST THAT

ARE TRADITIONAL. WE LEARNED THAT THEY HAVE A NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCE AND

WE EVOLVE AND WE DON'T DO THEM ANYMORE. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS

THAT YES, WE HAVE A LOT MORE COYOTES BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE WOLF AND

WE DON'T HAVE MOUNTAIN LIONS. WE USED TO HAVE THOSE IN THIS STATE AND

AS THEY DID IN VERMONT, WE DON'T HAVE THEM ANYMORE. THERE ARE NO

BREEDING POPULATIONS. EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE SOMEBODY SEES A

MOUNTAIN LION. MAYBE THEY SEE A MOUNTAIN LION, MAYBE THEY DON'T, BUT

IF THEY SAY THEY SEE A MOUNTAIN LION, I'M GOING TO TAKE THEM AT THEIR

WORD, BUT WE DON'T HAVE A BREEDING POPULATION. AND SO THOSE NATURAL

PREDATORS NO LONGER EXIST IN NEW YORK AND YES, WE HAVE A LARGE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

NUMBER OF COYOTES AND THEY ARE A PROBLEM, BUT KILLING MORE COYOTES

ONLY BREEDS MORE COYOTES. AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS TO NOT

UNDERMINE THE ABILITY OF DEC TO MANAGE THE WILDLIFE RESOURCES.

MR. SMULLEN: SO REALLY, YOU THINK THIS IS IMMORAL

THAT THESE -- THAT THESE CONTESTS -- THAT FIRE DEPARTMENTS OR FISHING GAME

CLUBS HAVE IS ACTUALLY AN IMMORAL ACT BECAUSE THEY DON'T COMPORT WITH

YOUR STANDARDS --

MS. GLICK: NO, I --

MR. SMULLEN: -- OF 21ST CENTURY MORTALITY?

MS. GLICK: NO, MR. SMULLEN. I DO NOT. I THINK THAT

THEY ARE AN INEFFECTIVE AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE ACTION.

MR. SMULLEN: BUT YOU DON'T HUNT. YOU DON'T

HAVE A HUNTING LICENSE. YOU'VE PARTICIPATED IN IT. YOU DON'T

UNDERSTAND THE SOCIAL OR CULTURAL RHYTHMS OF UPSTATE NEW YORK, SO

HOW WOULD YOU KNOW WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE FEELING WHEN THEY DO THIS,

WHEN THEY ACTUALLY ADHERE TO DEC REGULATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO THESE

-- THESE CERTAIN SPECIES?

MS. GLICK: WELL, MR. SMULLEN, AS YOU WELL KNOW, I

DO HAVE FRIENDS WHO LIVE IN THE CATSKILLS AND IN THE ADIRONDACKS.

THAT'S WHY THE ADIRONDACK COUNCIL HAS PUT OUT A MEMO IN SUPPORT.

PROTECT THE ADIRONDACKS HAS PUT OUT A MEMO IN SUPPORT. THOSE

INDIVIDUALS ARE CLEARLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIVED IN UPSTATE NEW YORK.

THE SPONSOR IS FROM UPSTATE NEW YORK. I DON'T HAVE TO BE A HUNTER TO

HAVE AN OPINION OR TO BE ABLE TO READ THOSE STUDIES OR THOSE MEMOS

FROM ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE DEEPLY STEEPED IN WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

UNDERSTAND THAT THESE CONTESTS ARE NOT AN APPROPRIATE MANAGEMENT

TOOL.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

YOUR -- YOUR COMMENTS, CHAIR. I WOULD REPLY THAT YOUR LIVED

EXPERIENCE IS NOT FROM THE ADIRONDACKS. AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS IN

MY OPINION, AND WE'LL DIFFER ON THIS, WE HAVE DIFFERENT TRADITIONAL

VALUES HAVING TO DO -- DO YOU, FOR INSTANCE, DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S

IMMORAL TO EAT MEAT?

MS. GLICK: WELL, THE BILL DOESN'T ADDRESS THAT AND I

DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TOLD WHETHER THEY CAN EAT MEAT OR

NOT.

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE WE

ACTUALLY CONSUME THE WILDLIFE IN UPSTATE NEW YORK THAT WE -- THAT WE

TAKE. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. SMULLEN: SO REALLY WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A --

IS A CULTURAL DIFFERENCE THAT -- THAT CANNOT BE BRIDGED. AND WHAT WE'RE

GOING TO DO HERE TODAY, LIKE WE DID LAST YEAR, IS BY A MAJORITY VOTE WITH

THE CHAMBER MOSTLY EMPTY, IF I WERE TO COUNT SEATS RIGHT NOW AND SAY

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN THIS CHAMBER ACTUALLY LISTENING TO THIS DEBATE,

I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S UNDER A THIRD, PERHAPS A QUARTER OF THE -- OF THE

MEMBERS. AND THAT IN PUBLIC AS WE HAVE THIS DEBATE, THAT PEOPLE

OUGHT TO LISTEN TO WHAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE THINK ABOUT

THESE BILLS. BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE AND I WON'T

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

REPEAT WHAT I'VE SAID IN PRIOR YEARS, BUT CULTURALLY SPEAKING, WE HAVE

REGIONAL DIFFERENCES ACROSS THIS STATE. WE HAVE A MAJORITY FROM THE

DENSE URBAN AREA THAT SAYS THAT THIS -- THIS BILL IS RIGHT AND PROPER, THAT

WE ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY THE PRIVILEGE TO HUNT IN A CERTAIN FASHION

THAT THE PEOPLE OF ANOTHER AREA OF THE STATE HAVE DONE SO BECAUSE WE

KNOW BETTER. AND I WOULD RESPECTFULLY SUBMIT TO ALL OF YOU THAT IF I

WERE TO COME INTO YOUR COMMUNITY WITH A MAJORITY VOTE AND PICK AN

ISSUE THAT ANY OF YOU DISAGREED WITH AND I FORCED IT UPON YOU BECAUSE I

SAID SO BECAUSE I HAVE THE VOTES, YOU WOULD THINK THAT'S WRONG. FROM

A LEGAL STANDPOINT, FROM A MORAL STANDPOINT, FROM ANY STANDPOINT THAT

YOU WOULD HAVE. AND I ASK ALL -- ALL OF THE MEMBERS THAT ARE HERE

TODAY, WHETHER YOU'RE FROM LONG ISLAND OR FROM SYRACUSE OR FROM

BUFFALO WHERE THE SENATE SPONSOR IS FROM, FROM THE CITY. LET US

ORGANIZE OUR LIVES AS WE SEE FIT AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT VIOLATING THE LAW.

LET US NOT CREATE A NEW LAW WHEN WE'RE JUST A HAMMER LOOKING FOR ANY

NAIL THAT WE CAN FIND TO DRIVE IT HOME SIMPLY BECAUSE WE CAN. THAT IS

THE TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY. THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS BILL. AND

THAT IS WHY I URGE ALL OF YOU TO VOTE NO. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

PLEASE CALL THE RULES COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM,

SIR?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. RULES

COMMITTEE, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. PIROZZOLO.

MR. PIROZZOLO: GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. SPEAKER,

HOW ARE YOU TODAY? I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE SPONSOR IF SHE WOULD YIELD

FOR A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. GLICK: CERTAINLY.

MR. PIROZZOLO: MS. GLICK, IF AT ANY TIME YOU

CAN'T HEAR ME, JUST LET ME KNOW, I'M A LITTLE BIT HOARSE, I'M NOT SICK, IT

JUST HAS MORE TO DO WITH ALLERGIES THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

MS. GLICK: WELL, I'M -- I'M SORRY TO HEAR THAT.

MAYBE WE CAN JUST WAIT UNTIL EVERYBODY MOVES OUT OF THE AREA BECAUSE

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THAT WOULD BE

APPROPRIATE.

MS. GLICK: -- IT WOULD MAKE IT EASIER ON YOU.

MR. PIROZZOLO: WELL, WHEN YOU SAY "EVERYBODY"

WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

MS. GLICK: WELL, PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO THE

RULES COMMITTEE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: HOLD ONE MINUTE.

JUST HOLD ONE MINUTE, AND IN FACT I MUST GET UP AND LEAVE.

MR. PIROZZOLO: IT CAN'T BE BECAUSE OF SOMETHING

I'VE SAID BECAUSE I HAVEN'T REALLY SAID IT YET.

(PAUSE)

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. GLICK: I THINK WE CAN HEAR YOU NOW, DESPITE

YOUR ALLERGIES FOR WHICH I AM SYMPATHETIC.

MR. PIROZZOLO: SO I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR

TIME THE OTHER DAY. WE SPOKE ABOUT THIS, WE HAD A BRIEF CONVERSATION

AND WE KIND OF AGREED ON THE TERM "MANAGEMENT TOOL" AND I LIKE THAT

TERM, BUT I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT IN COMPARISON TO SOME OTHER

THINGS AND I'M GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A DIFFERENT STANCE (INAUDIBLE) THE

OTHER DAY. I MEAN I BELIEVE THAT I AM AN ADVOCATE FOR ANIMALS, I DON'T

KNOW IF ANYONE HAS SEEN, BUT I'VE HAD MY DOG VALENTINE HERE AND, YOU

KNOW, I'M PRO PETS AND I THINK THERE'S CERTAIN ABUSES THAT -- THAT WE DO

NEED TO WORK ON. BUT THERE IS REALLY A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PETS,

THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WILDLIFE, AND THEN THERE'S A BIG

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANIMAL THAT, YOU KNOW, PRETTY MUCH ARE GROWN FOR

FOOD. I WOULD IMAGINE WE COULD AGREE UPON THAT. YES?

MS. GLICK: YEAH.

MR. PIROZZOLO: OKAY. AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, I

WANT TO GO OVER WHAT THIS BILL IS SO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT I UNDERSTAND

YOUR INTENTION IS THAT THIS IS ABOUT CONTESTS THAT HAVE PRIZES AND

ENTERTAINMENT. SO YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE GET

TOGETHER AND GLORIFY THE KILLING OF ANIMALS FOR PRIZES THAT (INAUDIBLE) OR

RECOGNITION. SO YOU REALLY WANT THAT TO STOP AND -- AND I GUESS THAT'S

REALLY WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW OF ANY OF THESE ANIMALS ON

THE LIST, ARE ANY OF THESE ANIMALS ON THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST?

MS. GLICK: WELL, IF THEY WERE, IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

TO GO AFTER AN ANIMAL ON THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST.

MR. PIROZZOLO: SO THEN I'LL TAKE THAT -- THAT NONE

OF THESE ANIMALS, THAT'S A NO, NONE OF THESE ANIMALS ARE ON THE

ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST. ARE ANY OF THESE ANIMALS CONSIDERED

PREDATORS?

MS. GLICK: YEAH.

MR. PIROZZOLO: OKAY. THE ANIMALS THAT ARE

CONSIDERED PREDATORS, WHAT DO THEY PREY? WHAT DO THEY -- WHAT DO

THEY EAT? WHO DO THEY ATTACK?

MS. GLICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, NATURE IS A FUNNY

THING. ANIMALS WILL EAT -- IF THEY ARE CARNIVORES, THEY WILL EAT ANYTHING

THAT THEY CAN OVERPOWER AND SO FREQUENTLY THEY'LL GO AFTER THE SMALLEST

ANIMAL OR THE WEAKEST ANIMAL, AND WE DON'T REALLY GET TO CHOOSE OR

DIRECT THEM TOWARDS WHICH ANIMALS THEY SHOULD IN FACT HUNT. SO...

MR. PIROZZOLO: THAT'S CORRECT. AS A MATTER OF

FACT THERE ARE EVEN NEWS STORIES WHERE SOME OF THESE PREDATORS HAVE

ATTACKED BABIES IN BACKYARDS AND CHILDREN. SO I AGREE WITH WHAT

YOU'RE SAYING THERE. DO YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHAT THE

POPULATION OF COYOTES IS IN NEW YORK?

MS. GLICK: I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'VE -- THAT

ANYBODY HAS A HANDLE ON THAT.

MR. PIROZZOLO: WELL, THAT'S NOT TRUE, SO I'M GOING

TO ASK AGAIN. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE POPULATION OF COYOTES IS

IN NEW YORK?

MS. GLICK: WELL, WE THINK THAT THAT'S A DIFFICULT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THING TO ESTIMATE.

MR. PIROZZOLO: ALL RIGHT. WELL, I'LL TELL YOU THAT

THERE'S ABOUT 20 TO 30,000 POPULATION OF COYOTES IN NEW YORK.

MS. GLICK: AND -- AND THAT NUMBER COMES FROM?

MR. PIROZZOLO: I JUST DID A VERY QUICK GOOGLE

SEARCH. IT COMES FROM AN ORGANIZATION WITHIN NEW YORK STATE, BUT I'M

NOT GOING TO -- IT'S NOT MY HILL TO BE -- IT'S NOT MY HILL TO DIE ON. I'M

JUST THROWING IT OUT THERE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW MANY

COYOTES THERE ARE IN NEW YORK. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA THE POPULATION

OF BOBCATS IN NEW YORK?

(PAUSE)

MS. GLICK: NO. THEY'RE -- THEY'RE FAIRLY SECRETIVE,

THOUGH I HAVE HAD THE GREAT -- GOOD PLEASURE OF SEEING SOME.

MR. PIROZZOLO: WELL, IF THAT'S TRUE I'M SURE IF YOU

TOOK A POLL (INAUDIBLE) BUT THERE ARE ABOUT 5,000, OKAY? SO THAT

QUESTION COULD CONTINUE IS DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY SQUIRRELS THERE ARE

IN NEW YORK?

MS. GLICK: I WILL ATTEST TO THE FACT THAT I DON'T HAVE

A LISTING OF THE POPULATION OF ANY OF THE ANIMALS THAT ARE ON THE LIST.

MR. PIROZZOLO: SO THEN YOU DON'T KNOW

SPECIFICALLY IF THIS CONTEST WILL HARM THE SPECIES OF THIS POPULATION OR

THESE POPULATIONS. YOU'RE JUST UPSET THAT THERE'S A PRIZE OR --

MS. GLICK: NO, NO, NO, PLEASE. PLEASE DO NOT

CHARACTERIZE, PLEASE DO NOT CHARACTERIZE.

MR. PIROZZOLO: ALL RIGHT, I APOLOGIZE. EXPLAIN IT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

TO ME THEN.

MS. GLICK: THE NATURAL RESOURCES OF THE STATE

BELONG TO THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK. DEC MANAGES THOSE

RESOURCES AND THE LEGISLATURE IS THE TRUSTEE OF THE NATURAL RESOURCES OF

THE STATE. THAT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY. THERE ARE SCIENTISTS FROM NEW

YORK WHO COME FROM BEDFORD, ISLIP, SOUTH SALEM, WILLSEYVILLE AND A

HOST OF OTHER PLACES THAT BELIEVE THAT THE INDISCRIMINATE KILLING OF

WILDLIFE IN THE FORM OF THESE CONTESTS WILL NOT EFFECTIVELY MANAGE

POPULATIONS AND DYSREGULATES THEIR NUMBERS. KILLING COYOTES, EVEN IN

LARGE NUMBERS, CAUSES COYOTES TO REPRODUCE MORE QUICKLY. DEC HAS

RECOGNIZED THE PHENOMENON AND STATES: STUDIES HAVE SHOWN AN

INCREASE IN REPRODUCTIVE RATES IN AREAS WHERE COYOTES WERE INTENSIVELY

REMOVED. PAST EXPERIENCE SHOW -- HAS SHOWN THAT ATTEMPTS TO CONTROL

OR LIMIT COYOTE POPULATIONS ON LARGE-SCALE BASIS MAY INCREASE BIRTH

RATES, THEREBY ACCELERATING THE COYOTE POPULATION GROWTH AND

EXPANSION. RANDOM KILLING DISRUPTS THEIR SOCIAL STRUCTURE THEREBY

ENCOURAGING MORE BREEDING AND MIGRATION. ADDITIONALLY, DUE TO

COYOTES' TERRITORIAL NATURE, THOSE WHO ARE REMOVED ARE REPLACED BY

OTHERS. SO THERE IS SOME NOTION THAT THESE CONTESTS ARE HELPFUL. I AM

READING FROM WILDLIFE SCIENTISTS IN THIS STATE AND COMMENTS FROM DEC

THAT POINT OUT THAT THESE EFFORTS ARE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE AND INEFFECTIVE.

THAT'S --

MR. PIROZZOLO: SO WHO REGULATES ANIMAL

(INAUDIBLE) POPULATIONS?

MS. GLICK: DEC.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. PIROZZOLO: HAS DEC ASKED FOR THIS? HAS

DEC SAID LET'S STOP THESE CONTESTS?

MS. GLICK: WE HAVE NEITHER A MEMO IN SUPPORT OR

OPPOSITION.

MR. PIROZZOLO: WHO HAS ASKED FOR THE

ELIMINATION OF THESE CONTESTS?

MS. GLICK: WELL, WE HAVE HAD, AS I JUST READ FROM,

A MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT FROM WILDLIFE SCIENTISTS. WE HAVE SOME

FROM HUNTERS WHO FEEL THAT THESE CONTESTS IN SOME WAY GIVE THEM A BAD

NAME, NOW IT'S NOT ALL HUNTERS, IT IS SOME HUNTERS WHO ARE CONCERNED

THAT THESE ARE -- JUST UNDERMINE THE -- WHAT IS VIEWED AS AN APPROPRIATE

AND ETHICAL FASHION OF HUNTING. AND WE HAVE A MEMO FROM FARMERS

THAT LIKEWISE ARE CONCERNED THAT IT INCREASES THAT THESE CONTESTS, IN THEIR

COMMUNITIES, INCREASE THE NUMBER OF COYOTES THAT THEY HAVE TO DEAL

WITH ON THEIR FARMS.

MR. PIROZZOLO: I -- I'D LOVE TO READ THOSE MEMOS

SOMETIME BECAUSE THAT'S -- THAT'S AWFUL STRANGE, BUT ARE ANY STUDIES --

HAVE ANY STUDIES BEEN DONE ON THE IMPACT OF COMMUNITIES AS

(INAUDIBLE). IF WE'RE GOING TO STOP THIS HUNTING BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT

TO INCREASE THE POPULATION BECAUSE BY REMOVING ANIMALS FROM THE

POPULATION, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW SOMEHOW THAT INCREASES IT, I'M SURE

THAT ARGUMENT WOULD BE MADE, WHICH YOU ARE MAKING. BUT IF WE DON'T

REMOVE THESE ANIMALS AND AS THE POPULATION INCREASES, DO WE HAVE ANY

IDEA OF THE IMPACT THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO OUR FARMERS, TO OUR

NEIGHBORS, TO JUST THE WILDLIFE POPULATION IN GENERAL? DO WE HAVE ANY

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

IDEA OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

MS. GLICK: WELL, THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS IS

REALLY THAT IF -- IF -- IF WE DIDN'T HAVE US AND ANIMALS WERE IN THE WILD,

THEY WOULD PREDATE ON THOSE ANIMALS IN THEIR AREA WHO WERE WEAKEST

AND PERHAPS OLDER AND THE NATURE DOES HAVE ITS OWN WAY OF CULLING

POPULATIONS. BUT WE ARE IN THE MIX AND WE DISRUPT THAT.

MR. PIROZZOLO: BUT SENSE WE DON'T HAVE

(INAUDIBLE) AS YOU ALREADY STATED BEFORE, THE MAIN PREDATOR IS OUT SO

BASICALLY WE'RE JUST KIND OF USING THESE CONTESTS AS MAYBE AS A

SUBSTITUTION. BUT I ALSO WANT TO GET BACK TO ONE OTHER POINT WHEN WE

SPOKE ABOUT WILDLIFE. WHY ARE FISH NOT CONSIDERED WILDLIFE? HOW DID

YOU MAKE THAT DETERMINATION?

MS. GLICK: I DIDN'T MAKE THAT DECISION.

MR. PIROZZOLO: WHO DID?

MS. GLICK: THAT IS D -- THAT IS A DEC. AND

FRANKLY, YOU MIGHT LOOK UP IN -- IN THE GOOGLE AND SEE THE U.S.

WILDLIFE AND FISH, THAT HAS JUST BEEN THE WAY THAT IT -- IT'S NOT ME, IT'S

JUST THE WAY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ORGANIZED.

MR. PIROZZOLO: SO THAT'S -- THAT'S DEC'S OPINION.

BUT IT'S FUNNY YOU SAY GOOGLE BECAUSE I DID GOOGLE WILDLIFE AND --

MS. GLICK: IT'S THE LAW. IT'S NOT AN OPINION, IT IS THE

LAW.

MR. PIROZZOLO: OKAY. SO MY OPINION IS THAT

THAT'S AN OPINION. FIVE CATEGORIES OF WILDLIFE ARE MAMMALS, FISH, BIRDS,

REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS. SO IT'S THE DEC'S OPINION THAT THE LAW SHOULD

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

BE THAT FISH ARE NOT CONSIDERED WILDLIFE. BUT, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, MY

THOUGHT HERE IS THAT THERE ARE CONSERVATION GROUPS WHO CONSIDER MAYBE

SOME OF THESE ANIMALS TO BE CUTE AND FURRY AND NOT REALLY BASED UPON

THEIR PREDATORY HISTORIES OF WHAT THEY CAN DO AND WHAT HAPPENS AS

POPULATION EXPLODES, THAT PEOPLE WHO REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY BUSINESS IN

THE IDEA OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT ARE GETTING INTO THE BUSINESS OF

WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM FEEL GOOD.

MS. GLICK: WELL, I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO THE

BIOLOGY, BUT WE CATEGORIZE SPECIES. THEY FALL INTO VARIOUS CATEGORIES

AND MAMMALS ARE WILDLIFE. THERE IS AVIAN WILDLIFE AND THEN THERE ARE

FISH. THEY ARE SEPARATE CATEGORIES --

MR. PIROZZOLO: FISH WILDLIFE.

MS. GLICK: -- AND THAT IS WHY IT'S NOT AN OPINION

BASED ON SOMEONE AT DEC IMAGINING. IT IS THE WAY THE LAW IS

STRUCTURED. WILDLIFE AND FISH ARE SEPARATE.

MR. PIROZZOLO: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

IF I MAY SPEAK ON -- ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: ON THE BILL.

MR. PIROZZOLO: SO, ONCE AGAIN, AS -- AS VERY

JUSTIFIABLY SAID BY MY COLLEAGUES, THIS DOES SEEM TO BE PEOPLE WHO ARE

NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT A PARTICULAR SUBJECT COMING INTO A

COMMUNITY AND SAYING WHAT YOU'RE DOING ARE WRONG BECAUSE I JUST

DON'T LIKE WHAT IT'S DONE. I'M NOT HAPPY THAT HUNTERS ARE BEING

CHARACTERIZED AS GLEEFUL AT THE DEATHS OF ANIMALS BECAUSE OF PRIZES AND

ENTERTAINMENT. MAYBE THE MANAGEMENT TOOL IS NOT BEING SEEN AS A

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MANAGEMENT TOOL BECAUSE IF THESE SPECIES WERE ENDANGERED, I'M SURE

THE DEPARTMENT OF PRESERVATION CONSERVATION WOULD HAVE SOMETHING

TO SAY ABOUT IT. AND IN ADDITION, BECAUSE THESE CONTESTS ARE GOING ON

AND IT IS BEING ALLOWED THAT THEY GO ON, AND I WILL NOTE THAT THEY ARE

BEING ALLOWED TO GO ON LEGALLY, THAT THAT IN ITSELF IS THE MANAGEMENT

TOOL THAT IS NOT BEING CREATED. IF WE TAKE AWAY THIS TOOL AND WE ALLOW

THESE POPULATIONS TO EXPLODE, THEN WE WILL HAVE TO BE DEALING WITH THIS

PROBLEM DOWN THE ROAD. SO THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE PIECES OF

LEGISLATION THAT I AGREE THAT WE'RE DOING SIMPLY BECAUSE WE CAN, BUT IT

TURNS INTO LEGISLATION WHERE WE ARE NO LONGER SERVING OUR CONSTITUENTS.

WE ARE SELF-SERVING BECAUSE IT MAKES US FEEL GOOD. SO I WOULD ASK

EVERYONE TO PLEASE VOTE AGAINST THIS LEGISLATION. WE REALLY HAVE NO

BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, AS A -- AS A CITY-BASED ORGANIZATION WITH A

CITY-BASED BODY DEALING WITH UPSTATE WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT. THANK

YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: MR. GALLAHAN.

MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

MS. GLICK: YES, I WILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU, ASSEMBLYMEMBER. I

HAVE JUST A FEW QUESTIONS, MY COLLEAGUES HAVE COVERED MANY BASIS

HERE. I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU DON'T HAVE A HUNTING LICENSE AND

YOU DON'T HUNT, BUT HAVE YOU EVER ATTENDED ONE OF THESE CONTESTS?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. GLICK: NO, THOUGH, I HAVE READ SOME OF THE

MATERIAL ABOUT THEM AND THERE ARE SOME VIDEOS THAT HAVE BEEN

PRODUCED, YOU KNOW, PHOTOS THAT HAVE BEEN PRODUCED --

MR. GALLAHAN: SURE.

MS. GLICK: -- BUT I HAVE NOT ATTENDED.

MR. GALLAHAN: WELL, I'VE ATTENDED SEVERAL AND

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THE -- THE 13 OF THEM THAT I ATTENDED THROUGH MY

LOCAL AMERICAN LEGION CHAPTER 457 IN PHELPS, NEW YORK. WE HAVE

DONE IT OVER A -- A 13-YEAR PERIOD. WE ALLOW FOR SQUIRREL, RABBIT AND

GROUSE. AND WHEN YOU BRING THOSE ANIMALS BACK IN TO THE LEGION, WE

HAVE PEOPLE IN WAITING TO CLEAN THEM AND PREPARE THEM FOR

CONSUMPTION. YOU STATED EARLIER IN YOUR DEBATE THAT NO INTENTION OF

USING THE MEAT. THAT WAS A STATEMENT THAT YOU MADE EARLIER IN DEBATE.

WELL, I BEG TO DIFFER. WE PUT ON A GAME DINNER EVERY YEAR AT THE

LEGION WHICH RAISES TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. ALL THESE ANIMALS ARE

TAKEN IN A PERFECTLY LEGAL WAY. ALL OF THESE ANIMALS ARE PREPARED FOR

CONSUMPTION AND THEN MADE INTO A MEAL FOR A GAME DINNER, WHICH

PROMOTES YOUTH -- CHILDREN AND YOUTH PROGRAMS AT THE LEGION AND

SERVICE MEMBERS PROGRAMS. SO LET'S TAKE THAT AWAY. SO 13 YEARS

(INAUDIBLE) OVER 100,000 BUCKS.

ALSO, IT SAYS HERE IN -- IT STATES IN YOUR SUMMARY: IT'S

SOLE OBJECTIVE IS TO PROHIBIT INHUMANE, UNSUPPORTING -- UNSUPPORTING

AND WASTEFUL WILDLIFE KILLING CONTESTS WHICH ARE OPPOSED BY A GROWING

NUMBER OF MANAGEMENT PROFESSIONALS AND STATE WILDLIFE COMMISSIONS.

IF THIS WAS INHUMANE AND UNSUPPORTING, WOULDN'T THERE BE VIOLATIONS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THROUGH THE DEC THAT WOULD BE ISSUED?

MS. GLICK: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I AM LOOKING AT DEC

BAG LIMITS AND THERE DO SEEM TO BE BAG LIMITS ON GROUSE AND RABBIT. SO

I'M NOT SURE WHETHER --

MR. GALLAHAN: WELL, LET ME REPEAT THAT QUESTION.

MS. GLICK: -- THOSE CONTESTS WERE -- WELL, YOU ASKED

ME A QUESTION.

MR. GALLAHAN: YEAH, OKAY. GO AHEAD.

MS. GLICK: SO -- AND IT TOOK A WHILE TO GET TO THE

QUESTION SO GIVE ME A MOMENT. THE -- THERE -- YOU TALKED ABOUT

GROUSE AND RABBIT FOR WHICH THERE ARE DAILY BAG LIMITS SO --

MR. GALLAHAN: ABSOLUTELY. SIX -- SIX FOR

SQUIRRELS AND FIVE FOR RABBIT, CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: CORRECT, AND GROUSE IS FOUR.

MR. GALLAHAN: YES.

MS. GLICK: SO -- SO IT -- IT -- IT -- IT -- IT SEEMS LIKE

THAT WAS MORE OF A -- AN ORGANIZED HUNT AND NOT -- NOT -- IF -- IF -- IF

THERE'S A BAG LIMIT ON CERTAIN SPECIES --

MR. GALLAHAN: YES.

MS. GLICK: -- AND PEOPLE ARE ONLY KILLING UP TO THE

BAG LIMIT, IT'S DIFFERENT THAN THOSE WHERE THERE IS IN FACT A NO LIMIT AND

THE LIMITATION -- IF THERE IS NO LIMIT, AND SO I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT THE

CONTEST YOU PARTICIPATED IN WAS.

MR. GALLAHAN: WELL, ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY WE DID

HAVE COYOTES IN THAT CONTEST AND THEY SKINNED THE COYOTES AND SOLD THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PELTS, AS YOU ALL KNOW THEY USE FUR --

MS. GLICK: OKAY.

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK).

MR. GALLAHAN: -- SO --

MS. GLICK: -- FOR WHICH THERE'S NO BAG LIMIT, OKAY.

MR. GALLAHAN: RIGHT, RIGHT, NO BAG LIMIT. SO,

WE DID THAT AND THEN THAT MONEY IS DONATED BACK TO THE AMERICAN

LEGION FOR THEIR PROGRAMS. SO, IN YOUR TESTIMONY EARLIER -- YOUR --

YOUR, I'M SORRY, YOUR DEBATE EARLIER, NO INTENT OF EATING THE MEAT IS -- IS

-- IS -- IS NOT THE CASE. AND IT'S NOT THE CASE IN MANY OF THE HUNTING

CONTESTS THAT I'VE -- I'VE PARTICIPATED IN AND IN PARTICULAR THE ONE THAT --

THAT I ENDED UP COOKING FOR FOR 160 PEOPLE AND RAISING TENS OF

THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR OUR LOCAL AMERICAN LEGION. BUT I WANT TO GET

BACK TO, ITS SOLE OBJECTIVE - TALKING ABOUT THIS BILL - IS TO PROHIBIT

INHUMANE, UNSUPPORTING -- UNSUPPORTING AND WASTEFUL WILDLIFE KILLING.

WHERE IS THIS INHUMANE AND UNSUPPORTING?

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MS. GLICK: I THINK YOU'RE READING FROM THE MEMO

AND NOT THE BILL.

MR. GALLAHAN: I'M READING FROM -- FROM YOUR --

YOUR SUMMARY, YES. YES, THIS IS IN YOUR SUMMARY.

MS. GLICK: WELL, WE'LL ONLY BE VOTING ON THE BILL.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. GALLAHAN: OKAY. OKAY.

ON THE BILL.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU, MS. GLICK. TO ME

THIS IS ANOTHER DIRECT HIT ON UPSTATE CULTURE. LET'S ELIMINATE THESE --

THESE CONTESTS. EVERYBODY THINKS THAT EVERYBODY'S OUT THERE KILLING

UNCONTROLLABLY, WIPING OUT THE WILDLIFE. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM

THE TRUTH. THAT'S -- THAT'S NOT THE CASE AT ALL. WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS

SINCE -- I'M A -- I'VE BEEN HUNTING FOR OVER 45 YEARS AND ALL THESE

CONTESTS THAT I'VE EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN HAVE BEEN RUN WITH INTEGRITY

AND 90 PERCENT OF THEM HAVE ALWAYS INTENDED TO USE THE MEAT. SO I

HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH -- WITH THE SPONSOR ON THAT, BUT YOU CHIP AWAY,

YOU CHIP AWAY, YOU CHIP AWAY, YOU CHIP AWAY, PRETTY SOON WE HAVE --

WE HAVE NOTHING LEFT. UPSTATE IS -- IS A COMMUNITY, MY COMMUNITY,

MY DISTRICT, THE 131ST, WHICH HAPPENS TO ENCOMPASS SEVEN COUNTIES

AND 47 TOWNS IS A HUNTING DISTRICT. AND I HAVE GOT HUNDREDS OF E-MAILS

IN OPPOSITION TO THIS BILL. AND I'M SURE THE SPONSOR HAS HAD E-MAILS

AGAINST THIS BILL BUT THEY WERE NEVER MENTIONED. JUST THE E-MAILS THAT

WERE IN FAVOR OF THE BILL WERE MENTIONED.

SO I WOULD -- I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT

WHAT'S HAPPENING UPSTATE, HOW WE RUN THESE -- THESE CONTESTS AND

REALLY LOOK HARD AT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THESE ARE SUCCESSFULLY RUN, AS

THE ONE THAT I PARTICIPATE IN, AND MAKE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR

OUR LEGION AND LOCAL COMMUNITIES. AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO -- TO

VOTE NO ON THIS BILL AND TO GIVE IT CONSIDERATION FOR WHAT'S HAPPENING TO

THE UPSTATE FOLKS, NOT JUST THE DOWNSTATE FOLKS. AS WE WENT THROUGH

ALL THESE BILLS YESTERDAY, 80 PERCENT OF THEM WERE FOR DOWNSTATE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. BYRNES.

MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU. MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. GLICK: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. BYRNES: I'M NOT GOING TO EVEN TALK ABOUT

COYOTES JUST FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION. SO I'LL USE KIND OF A DIFFERENT

EXAMPLE FOR THE QUESTION I HAVE. IF A LANDOWNER ACTUALLY IS ABLE TO GET

A NUISANCE PERMIT TO ELIMINATE RACCOONS OR CANADIAN GEESE, WHICH ARE

A HUGE PROBLEM WHERE WE ARE. IF THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A LEGITIMATE

NUISANCE PERMIT, ARE THEY ALLOWED WHEN THEY HAVE HUNTERS COME ON TO

THE PROPERTY TO INCENTIVIZE THEM TO SAY LOOK, I'LL GIVE YOU TWO BUCKS OR

FIVE BUCKS FOR EACH GEESE, BECAUSE -- OR WILL THAT BE A VIOLATION OF THE

COMPETITION EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE A LEGITIMATE NUISANCE PERMIT AND

THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO INCENTIVIZE THE USE OF THAT PERMIT?

MS. GLICK: WELL, THREE THINGS. ONE, NOTHING IN THE

BILL PREVENTS ANY INDIVIDUAL FROM ELIMINATING NUISANCE ANIMALS THAT ARE

EITHER THREATENING THEIR LIVESTOCK OR THEY'RE DAMAGING THEIR PROPERTY. I

CHOSE TO PUT UP A GATE AND HIRE SOMEBODY TO KILL THE PORCUPINE EATING

THE DECK, THAT'S MY CHOICE, BUT NOTHING STOPS ANYBODY FROM

ELIMINATING A NUISANCE ANIMAL. THIS IN NO WAY -- AND YOU COULD --

YOU CAN PAY PEOPLE TO ELIMINATE NUISANCE ANIMALS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. BYRNES: SO IF YOU GIVE A COUPLE OF HUNTERS

MONEY BASED UPON THE NUMBER THAT THEY KILL, THAT IS AN EXCEPTION THEN

TO ANY TYPE OF COMPETITION OR WOULD NOT FALL INTO THIS BILL?

(PAUSE)

MS. GLICK: WELL, YOU -- YOU CAN PAY PEOPLE TO

EXECUTE THE PERMIT. AND SO THE PERMIT -- PRESUMABLY THE -- THE

PERMITS, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, ARE LIMITED TO WHATEVER IS THE NUISANCE --

MS. BYRNES: CORRECT.

MS. GLICK: -- AND SO THAT IS WHAT CAN BE -- YOU CAN

HIRE SOMEBODY TO -- IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THE -- DO THE ACTUAL HUNTING

BASED ON WHAT IS THE LIMITATION PROVIDED BY THE PERMIT, YOU COULD PAY

SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO THAT.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. SO THAT -- ANYONE -- IF YOU

HAVE A LEGITIMATE NUISANCE PERMIT, A LANDOWNER DOES, THEN THAT WOULD

NOT -- THAT WOULD BE AN EXCEPTION AND TO ANYTHING WITH THIS CONTEST.

MS. GLICK: YES. WE SAID FROM THE BEGINNING THAT

THIS IS -- ANYONE CAN REMOVE A NUISANCE ANIMAL WITH THE PROPER PERMIT

AND IF YOU EITHER DON'T WANT TO PERSONALLY OR CAN'T FOR ANY REASON BE IT

TIME OR -- OR WHATEVER, YOU CAN PAY SOMEBODY TO USE -- TO EXECUTE THE

PERMIT.

MS. BYRNES: HOW MANY OF THE EVENTS THAT YOU

HAVE DEFINED IN THIS BILL, HOW MANY OF THESE CONTESTS ACTUALLY OCCUR

EVERY YEAR IN OUR STATE AND HOW MANY ANIMALS ARE ACTUALLY KILLED?

MS. GLICK: WE'RE NOT EXACTLY SURE BUT WE'VE SEEN

ESTIMATES FROM, I THINK, 29 TO 60 BUT --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. BYRNES: EVENTS PER YEAR IN THE ENTIRE STATE OF

NEW YORK?

MS. GLICK: YEAH.

MS. BYRNES: OKAY.

MS GLICK: SO IT IS HARDLY A THREAT TO THE 2ND

AMENDMENT.

MS. BYRNES: WELL, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT IT'S ALSO

HARDLY A THREAT TO WILDLIFE? I MEAN THAT'S NOT THAT MANY CONTESTS OVER

THE COURSE OF THE ENTIRE STATE OF NEW YORK.

MS. GLICK: WELL, IN A CERTAIN AREA, YOU KNOW, AS

WE HAVE -- WHICH WE LEARNED FROM THE TIME WE WERE KIDS IN SCHOOL

TAKING SCIENCE, NATURE IS A BALANCE AND IN A PARTICULAR AREA YOU CAN

DISRUPT THE BALANCE OF NATURE BY ELIMINATING A LARGE NUMBER OF THE TOP

PREDATOR. I WOULD THINK THAT SINCE WE DO HAVE IN SOME AREAS A LARGE

NUMBER OF DEER AND NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TAKING DEER, THE LIMITATIONS

PLACED BY DEC, WE WOULD PROBABLY WANT TO HAVE IN SOME LOCATIONS

MORE PREDATORS THAN LESS.

MS. BYRNES: LET'S TALK A SECOND. NOW I KNOW THAT

YOU HAVE AN EXCEPTION HERE IN THE BILL FOR SPECIAL DOG TRAINING AREAS OR

FIELD TRIALS OR SIMILAR K9 PERFORMANCE EVENTS, BASICALLY WHAT MANY OF

US UPSTATE WOULD REFER TO AS BIRD DOG OR GUN DOG COMPETITIONS OF

WHICH MY PUPPY HAS BEEN A PROUD PARTICIPANT. BUT MY QUESTION IS,

WHILE YOU HAVE -- I'M GUESSING THAT PHEASANT AND GROUSE ARE GOING TO

BE CONSIDERED WILDLIFE UNDER THIS BILL, CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: WELL, THEY'RE -- IT'S NOT UNDER THE BILL,

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

IT'S UNDER THE LAW CURRENTLY.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. THEN --

MS. GLICK: LET'S SAY THE BILL DIDN'T EXIST. THEY'D

STILL BE CONSIDERED WILDLIFE.

MS. BYRNES: PHEASANT AND GROUSE, THOUGH, MINUS

THE FACT THAT THEY MAY BE TAKEN INTO A SPECIAL FIELD TRIAL, DOG GUN

COMPETITION, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE TO HAVE A COMPETITION MINUS DOGS

BEING INVOLVED TO GO OUT AND SEE WHO COULD FIND THE MOST PHEASANTS

AND GROUSE, THAT WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THIS BILL, CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: I'M NOT -- COULD YOU REPEAT THE

QUESTION?

MS. BYRNES: WELL, IF -- IF -- IF WE HAVE A CASE

WHERE THERE ARE PHEASANT AND GROUSE OUT IN THE FIELDS AND THERE IS SOME

TYPE OF CONTEST, COMPETITION, TOURNAMENT OR DERBY WITH THE OBJECTIVE OF

TAKING THOSE PHEASANT OR GROUSE FOR SOME TYPE OF EVEN ENTERTAINMENT,

THAT WOULD BE BARRED AND MADE ILLEGAL BY THIS LEGISLATION, CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: WELL, THERE ARE -- FOR BOTH SPECIES THERE

ARE BAG LIMITS PER DAY. SO IF THEY ARE ABSENT A FIELD TRIAL, IT WOULD BE

ILLEGAL UNDER THIS BILL TO HAVE A CONTEST. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE CONTEST

WOULD BE IF YOU'RE LIMITED TO -- ON A DAILY BASIS TO SIX GROUSE --

MS. BYRNES: WELL, THERE -- THERE AREN'T THAT MANY

GROUSE AND PHEASANT THAT NATURALLY EXIST IN NEW YORK STATE ANYMORE

AND DEC ACTUALLY RAISES 30,000 PHEASANTS EVERY YEAR, ALTHOUGH THIS

YEAR I BELIEVE BECAUSE OF THE AVI -- AVIATION FLU OR WHATEVER IT IS, THEY

-- THIS YEAR'S PHEASANTS I BELIEVE WERE ALMOST TOTALLY DESTROYED AND NOT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PUT OUT IN FIELDS. BUT THE DEC DOES HISTORICALLY RAISE ABOUT 30,000

PHEASANTS EVERY YEAR THAT ARE PUT OUT IN AREAS THROUGHOUT NEW YORK

STATE FOR THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE OF IT BEING ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR

HUNTING ACTIVITIES IN NEW YORK.

SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE -- AND BUT THERE AREN'T THAT

MANY SO IT'S -- IT'S VERY HARD TO GET UP TO A LEGAL LIMIT. SO IF YOU GO OUT

AND YOU'RE COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER, ONE PERSON GETS THREE, THE OTHER

GETS TWO, WOO-HOO, I WAS THE WINNER TODAY, WOULD THAT BE A VIOLATION

OF THIS LEGISLATION?

MS. GLICK: WELL, IF YOU'RE -- IF -- IF -- IF THERE IS A

PRIZE FOR THE LARGEST NUMBER, YES.

MS. BYRNES: OR IT SAYS (INAUDIBLE). DOESN'T THAT

ALSO INCLUDE FOR ENTERTAINMENT?

MS. GLICK: I'M SORRY?

MS. BYRNES: ENTERTAINMENT. ISN'T THAT -- CORRECT

ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT IF -- IF THERE'S SOME TYPE OF PRIZE OR OTHER

INDUCEMENT OR FOR ENTERTAINMENT, WHICH IS PRETTY BROAD-RANGING.

MS. GLICK: WELL, IT -- IT JUST IS REFERRING TO THE

FORMAL ORGANIZED COMPETITION ITSELF BEING THE ENTERTAINMENT. SO IT'S

ASSOCIATED --

MS. BYRNES: SO, IT'S --

MS. GLICK: -- THE ENTERTAINMENT IS NOT THE PRIZE.

THE -- THE ORGANIZATION OF A CONTEST IS THE ENTERTAINMENT.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. SO IF -- IF IT'S NOT

SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN ORGANIZED BY A GROUP AND YOU JUST GOT TWO OR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THREE HUNTERS THAT ARE GOING OUT, THEN THEY CAN THEMSELVES, JUST AGAIN

GOING BACK TO WHERE WE STARTED, THEY CAN SAY OKAY, WHOEVER GETS THE

MOST GETS A BEER AFTER WE'RE DONE OR HAS TO BUY DINNER AND THAT'S NO

ISSUE.

MS. GLICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, THE -- IT REFERS TO

SPONSORING, PROMOTING, THE NOTION OF PUBLICIZING. IT'S RATHER A -- A

SOMEWHAT SPECIOUS ARGUMENT, AND I REFER TO MY ANALOGY TO A POKER

GAME, WHICH IF IT WERE ORGANIZED AND PROMOTED THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA

MIGHT GET THE ATTENTION OF THE POLICE, AND IF THERE WERE SIX GAMES

HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME THAT MIGHT COME TO THE ATTENTION OF THE

AUTHORITIES AND BE VIOLATIVE OF, THOUGH, I DON'T KNOW THE GAMING RULES I

WILL TELL YOU NOW, THAT MIGHT BE VIOLATIVE AND THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.

BUT FOUR PEOPLE GET TOGETHER. GROWING UP MY PARENTS HAD A TUESDAY

NIGHT CARD AND CANASTA --

MS. BYRNES: WELL, I MUST CONFESS --

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MS. GLICK: -- WITH A FRIEND --

MS. BYRNES: -- I HAVE NO IDEA TO HOW TO PLAY --

HOW TO PLAY CARDS --

MS. GLICK: WELL --

MS. BYRNES: -- NOT EVEN SOLITARY --

MS. GLICK: -- I'M SORRY.

MS. BYRNES: -- SO I'D LIKE TO STAY ON THE HUNTING

ISSUE.

MS. GLICK: WELL, I'M USING AN ANALOGY, WHICH I

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THINK IS MY PREROGATIVE. MR. SPEAKER, IS THAT PERMITTED WITHIN THE

RULES OF THE HOUSE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU CERTAINLY CAN

USE IT IN THE HOUSE.

MS. GLICK: SO I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THEY WOULD GO

AND I HAD NO IDEA IF MY FATHER AND HIS FOUR FRIENDS ACTUALLY PLAYED FOR

MONEY OR NOT. BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD HAVE KNOWN. THEY

WEREN'T RUNNING -- THEY WEREN'T RUNNING A -- A POKER GAME OR A GIN

GAME. IF SOMEBODY IS RUNNING A CONTEST, THAT IS THE ISSUE. AND IT'S

REALLY A -- A SPECIOUS ARGUMENT TO RAISE WHETHER A FEW PEOPLE GET

TOGETHER AND AMONGST THEMSELVES DECIDE THAT WHOEVER GETS WHATEVER IS

GOING TO BE THE PERSON PAYING FOR THE BEER AT THE END OF THE NIGHT.

MS. BYRNES: I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT WOULD BE

CORRECT OR WOULD BE BUYING DINNER. BUT SO YOU'RE SAYING ANYWAY THAT

THIS WOULD -- THAT WOULD -- THAT TYPE OF SCENARIO WOULD NOT BE WHAT'S

CONTEMPLATED BY THIS BILL. AND EVEN IF THEY PUT A POST UP ON

FACEBOOK, YOU KNOW, HOLDING UP THE -- THE GROUSE OR THE PHEASANTS, NO

PROBLEM, NO ISSUE, DEC IS NOT GOING TO COME KNOCKING AT THEIR DOOR IF

THERE ISN'T A POSTER SAYING THERE WAS A COMPETITION TODAY.

MS. GLICK: WELL, NOBODY IS REGISTERING, PAYING A

FEE AND PARTICIPATING IN AN ORGANIZED-SPONSORED CONTEST.

MS. BYRNES: AND THOSE ARE PREREQUISITES

MS. GLICK: WELL, YES. IT SAYS -- I WILL READ FROM

THE BILL BECAUSE IT'S PRETTY -- IF I CAN FIND AMONGST ALL OF THE PAPER, THE

BILL. THE BILL SAYS, UNLAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON TO ORGANIZE, SPONSOR,

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

CONDUCT, PROMOTE OR PARTICIPATE IN A CONTEST COMPETITION WITH THE

OBJECTIVE OF TAKING WILDLIFE FOR PRIZES OR OTHER INDUCEMENT OR AS

ENTERTAINMENT.

MS. BYRNES: RIGHT. SO --

MS. GLICK: SO IT'S REALLY THE ORGANIZING, THE

PROMOTING, THE REGISTRATION FEE, THE PRIZE AT THE END. THAT IS WHAT IS

PROHIBITED.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. AND AS THE SPONSOR, THAT IS

THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT, CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: TOTALLY.

MS. BYRNES: OKAY. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. IF I

COULD JUST BE HEARD BRIEFLY ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL.

MS. BYRNES: I THINK THAT, AGAIN, WITHOUT

BELABORING IT, I AGREE WITH THE OTHER MEMBERS WHO'VE SPOKEN OUT

AGAINST THIS. I BELIEVE IT IS AN UPSTATE, DOWNSTATE DIVIDE WHERE WE

HAVE DIFFERENT TRADITIONS. AND LIKE I SAID, DEC ACTUALLY SAID IN THEIR

WEBSITE THAT WE HAVE A LONG TRADITION IN THE STATE, ESPECIALLY OF

HUNTING ACTIVITIES AND ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR IS HUNTING ACTIVITIES IS

PHEASANT, WHICH IS WHY DEC RAISES 30,000 PHEASANTS EVERY YEAR FOR

THE EXPRESSED PURPOSE OF HAVING THEM KILLED. SO TO FEEL LIKE WE'RE ALL

OFFENDED BECAUSE WILDLIFE GETS KILLED IN THE STATE WHEN THE STATE

ACTUALLY RAISES THEM FOR THAT EXPRESSED PURPOSE IN ORDER TO ENCOURAGE

HUNTING ACTIVITIES, I THINK IS IN ITSELF A SPECIOUS ARGUMENT AND A

SPECIOUS PURPOSE FOR THIS BILL AND NEEDLESS TO SAY I'LL BE VOTING IN THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

NEGATIVE. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MS.

BYRNES.

MS. GLICK TO CLOSE.

ON THE BILL.

MS. GLICK: ON THE BILL, BRIEFLY. I APPRECIATE THE

NOTION THAT SOMEHOW BECAUSE I LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY AND ONLY SPEND

SOME TIME IN THE CATSKILLS THAT I HAVE NO CONNECTION TO THE ETHOS OR

TRADITIONS OR UNDERSTANDING OF UPSTATE. I -- I -- I REJECT THAT. I THINK

THAT I'VE GAINED A GREAT DEAL OF UNDERSTANDING OF -- OF HOW FOLKS

UPSTATE LIVE AND A GREAT APPRECIATION FOR THAT, BUT I HAVE RECEIVED

E-MAILS FROM PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN DISTRICTS UPSTATE THANKING ME FOR

SPONSORING THIS BILL AND TAKING WHAT THEY KNOW WILL BE HEAT FOR

PROMOTING IT. THEY OBVIOUSLY MAY NOT HAVE REACHED OUT TO THEIR OWN

MEMBERS THINKING THEY MIGHT NOT BE RECEPTIVE, BUT THIS IS -- THERE ARE

ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS FROM UPSTATE THAT HAVE

REACHED OUT, ORGANIZATIONS OF HUNTERS, FARMERS, RANCHERS AND OTHER

INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE IN FACT SAID THAT THEY FIND THAT THE CONTESTS

UNDERMINED THE WAY IN WHICH PEOPLE VIEW HUNTING IN GENERAL AND

WISH THAT THE CONTESTS WOULDN'T EXIST BECAUSE IT UNDERMINES THE -- THE

WAY IN WHICH PEOPLE VIEW THEM. SO I RESPECT THE CONCERNS OF MY

COLLEAGUES. I THINK THAT WE DO HEAR FROM OUR COLLEAGUES ABOUT -- THERE

ARE A LOT OF BILLS THAT ARE PUT OUT BY SOME OF THE MEN IN THE BODY THAT

HAVE TO DO WITH WOMEN'S ANATOMY WHICH THEY SEEMED NOT TO HAVE A

GREAT DEAL OF UNDERSTANDING OF. SO WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN APPROACHES TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

LEGISLATION. I BELIEVE BASED ON THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY WILDLIFE

MANAGEMENT EXPERTS AND SCIENTISTS, THAT THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE

MEASURE. AND I THEREFORE ASK FOR A SOLID VOTE IN SUPPORT OF -- OF

BANNING THESE PARTICULAR CONTESTS WHICH UNDERMINE PEOPLE'S INTEREST IN

ETHICAL HUNTING. I APPRECIATE THE CORDIALITY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND

RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR A SOLID VOTE IN SUPPORT OF THE MEASURE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT -- THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT

NOVEMBER 1ST.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. FOR THE REASONS WELL

EXPLAINED BY MY COLLEAGUES, THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY

OPPOSED. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY VOTE YES HERE ON THE

FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. FALL.

MR. FALL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY

CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. FOR

THOSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION THEY CAN DO SO AT

THEIR DESKS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MR. FALL.

MR. FALL: MR. SPEAKER, CAN WE NOW GO TO RULES

REPORT NO. 482 BY MS. CRUZ, FOLLOWED BY RULES REPORT NO. 451 BY

MR. OTIS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

PAGE 9, RULES REPORT NO. 482, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S02193, RULES REPORT NO.

482, SENATOR BAILEY (A00129, CRUZ, DE LOS SANTOS, SIMONE, KELLES,

SIMON, RAGA TAYLOR, SEAWRIGHT, LEVENBERG, OTIS, JOYNER, WALKER,

DAVILA, GLICK, ZACCARO, L. ROSENTHAL, ZINERMAN). AN ACT TO AMEND THE

CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING ACCURATE

INTERPRETATION OF STATEMENTS MADE BY DEPONENTS WITH LIMITED ENGLISH

PROFICIENCY IN ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENTS AND SUPPORTING DEPOSITIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MS. CRUZ.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL

WOULD REQUIRE ACCURATE INTERPRETATION OF STATEMENTS OF ACCUSATORY

INSTRUMENTS AND DEPOSITIONS BY PERSONS WITH LIMITED PROFICIENCY IN

ENGLISH. NEW YORK IS A LINGUISTICALLY-DIVERSE STATE AND SOME NEW

YORKERS ARE NOT FULLY PROFICIENT IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. THIS IS

DIFFICULT IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE CONTEXT WHEN SOMEONE SEEKS TO REPORT

A CRIME OR PROVIDE A STATEMENT TO LAW ENFORCEMENT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MORINELLO.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: ABSOLUTELY, JUDGE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ YIELDS.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I

APPRECIATE THAT. THERE'S BEEN AN ESTIMATE AS OF DECEMBER 21ST, 2021

OVER 600 TO 800 LANGUAGES IN NEW YORK STATE WITH DIFFERENT DIALECTS.

BUT MORE ACCURATELY, THE NEW YORK CITY OFFICE OF -- THE MAYOR'S

OFFICE OF IMMIGRATION AFFAIRS CELEBRATED ON FEBRUARY 21ST, 2023, THERE

ARE MORE THAN 400 LANGUAGES THAT ARE SPOKEN IN NEW YORK. IS --

WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THAT IS A ACCURATE STATEMENT?

MS. CRUZ: SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. AND WITHIN THOSE 400

LANGUAGES, ARE WE TO UNDERSTAND THERE ARE VARIOUS DIALECTS THAT SOME

MAY BE VERY OBSCURE?

MR. CRUZ: THAT SOUNDS ABOUT CORRECT, AS WELL.

MR. MORINELLO: ONE OF THE ISSUES IS BECAUSE OF

THE MULTIPLE LANGUAGES, THE NUMBER OF INTERPRETERS ARE LIMITED; AM I

CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: IN SOME LANGUAGES THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. AND NEW YORK STATE

BEING AS DIVERSE, NEW YORK CITY HAS MORE ACCESS TO INTERPRETERS OF

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

VARIOUS LANGUAGES THAN THE WESTERN PART OF THE STATE; CAN THAT BE AN

ACCURATE STATEMENT?

MS. CRUZ: SOMEWHAT. I THINK WITH OGS AND DCJS

PROVIDING INTERPRETATION SERVICES THROUGH CONTRACTS THAT ARE OFTEN

PHONE-BASED, YOU CAN HAVE ACCESS EVEN IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE

WHERE AN IN-PERSON INTERPRETER MAY NOT BE AS READILY AVAILABLE AS IT IS

IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. I CAN -- I CAN TELL YOU

FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, WHEN I WAS ON THE BENCH THERE WERE MANY

TIMES THAT WE HAD TO CALL A CENTRAL NUMBER FROM OCA TO GET A CERTIFIED

INTERPRETER. SOMETIMES IT WOULD TAKE A DAY OR TWO, AND IF IT WAS A

NONRESIDENT OF THE AREA, WE HAD TO HOLD THEM FOR THAT REASON. IN AN

INSTANT LIKE -- INSTANCE LIKE THAT WHERE IT IS A TELEPHONIC INTERPRETATION

WITH THE INTERPRETER BEING SWORN, THIS BILL REQUIRES THAT IT BE BOTH -- IT

BE IN WRITTEN -- IN A WRITTEN AUTHORIZATION. HAVE YOU CONSIDERED HOW

THAT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED IN SITUATIONS OF AN OBSCURE LANGUAGE BEING

INTERPRETED BY SOMEONE IN NEW YORK CITY FOR A JUDGE IN WESTERN NEW

YORK?

MS. CRUZ: SO, A COUPLE OF THINGS. THE INSTANCE

THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO IS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN POST THE BILL TAKING

EFFECT. THE BILL IS SUPPOSED TO HELP PRE GETTING INTO COURT. POST GETTING

INTO COURT, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S CONTEMPLATED BY THIS BILL. WHAT THE

BILL WOULD DO IS IF I, AS A VICTIM OR I WANT TO MAKE AN ACCUSATION

AGAINST SOMEONE AND I HAPPEN TO NOT SPEAK THE LANGUAGE, THEN THERE

ARE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS THAT IN ORDER FOR MY STATEMENT TO BE USED AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THAT LATER, ACTUALLY SERVE AS SOMETHING THAT WOULD HELP OVERTURN A CASE,

THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE AN INTERPRETATION AS WELL AS THE -- THE AFFIDAVIT

THAT HAS BEEN INTERPRETED BY SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY HAS THE

QUALIFICATIONS TO BE AN INTERPRETER. OUR HOPE AND OUR GOAL IS THAT

THROUGH THESE CONTRACTS THAT OGS AND DCJS HAVE, THAT THEY IMPLEMENT

A PIECE THAT WOULD MAKE THE AFFIDAVIT ALMOST AUTOMATIC IN INSTANCES

LIKE THIS.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, LET -- LET'S GO BACK TO WHAT

YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, THE AFFIDAVIT. AND I'M GOING TO USE THE SAME

SCENARIO. WE HAVE WESTERN NEW YORK, AND YOU HAVE TO CALL, THE

POLICE WOULD HAVE TO CALL OR WHOEVER'S DOING THE INVESTIGATION,

WHETHER IT'S THE VICTIM OR THE DEFENDANT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO CALL SOME

OUTSIDE NUMBER TO GET THAT. HOW WOULD THEY ACCOMPLISH THIS WRITTEN

AUTHORIZATION AND THE AFFIDAVIT AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT WHERE THEY

MIGHT HAVE HAD DIFFICULTY EVEN FINDING AN INTERPRETER?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: SO, IDEALLY, WE WOULD WANT DCJS AND

OGS TO MAKE IT PART OF THE CONTRACT THAT THEY WOULD HAVE, WHETHER IT'S

A PRO FORMA AFFIDAVIT OR THAT THEY PUT IT AS PART OF WHATEVER THE

STENOGRAPHER IS GOING TO TRANSCRIBE, THAT THEY ARE INTERPRETING

ACCURATELY. IF -- IN THE MEANTIME, IF THEY HAVE NOT GOT INTO THE CONTRACT

PIECE WHERE THEY AMEND THE CONTRACT TO ACTUALLY INCLUDE THIS PIECE,

THEN WE WOULD SAY THAT A WRITTEN STATEMENT SIGNED WOULD SERVE AS AN

AFFIDAVIT IN THE MEANTIME.

MR. MORINELLO: SO WOULD IT BE FAIR TO INTERPRET

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

IT, AND I'M NOT SURE, ASSUMING A POLICE OFFICER OR A SHERIFF OR SOME

PUBLIC OFFICIAL HAS TO INTERROGATE OR TAKE A STATEMENT ACROSS THE STATE

AND THEY FIND SOMEBODY IN NEW YORK CITY WHO HAS IT BECAUSE IT'S AN

OBSCURE DIALECT OF A ESTABLISHED LANGUAGE, HOW WOULD THEY PREPARE THAT

AFFIDAVIT OR THAT INFORMATION ON A SERIOUS ISSUE WHEN THERE'S -- WHEN

THERE'S THAT DISTANCE BETWEEN THEM?

MS. CRUZ: GIVE ME ONE SECOND.

(PAUSE)

SO, I -- I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I GET YOUR QUESTION

CORRECTLY. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT AN INSTANCE WHERE IT WOULD BE A

POSSIBLE DEFENDANT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN INSTANCE WHERE IT WOULD BE

A DEPONENT. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE -- THAT THIS IS WHERE WE'RE

GOING, RIGHT?

MR. MORINELLO: CORRECT -- WELL, EITHER, BUT LET'S

STAY WITH THE DEPONENT AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT.

MS. CRUZ: SO THIS BILL ONLY REFERS TO THE INSTANCES

WHERE IT WOULD BE WITH A DEPONENT.

MR. MORINELLO: I'M SORRY, WOULD YOU PLEASE

REPEAT THAT? I APOLOGIZE.

MS. CRUZ: SORRY. THIS -- THIS BILL ONLY ADDRESSES

THE INSTANCE -- THE INSTANCES WHERE WE'RE DEALING WITH A DEPONENT.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. SO IT DOESN'T DEAL WITH A

DEFENDANT.

MS. CRUZ: NO.

MR. MORINELLO: SO AN -- AN EXCLAMATORY OR A

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SPONTANEOUS UTTERANCE TO A POLICE OFFICER BY A DEFENDANT WHO HAS A

LANGUAGE BARRIER DOESN'T APPLY HERE?

MS. CRUZ: IT DOES NOT. I BELIEVE I DISCUSSED THIS

WITH ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES DURING THE COMMITTEE MEETING, AND WHAT I

EXPRESSED TO HIM IS THE -- THE -- THE RULE THAT WE'RE COMING UP WITH

HERE, THE LAW THAT WE'RE COMING UP WITH HERE WOULD NOT TOUCH THAT

INSTANCE.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. BUT -- SO LET'S GO BACK TO

THE DEPONENT. I LIVE IN A TOURIST AREA, AND I LIVE ON A BORDER, OKAY, AND

I'M NOT GONNA USE THE PHRASE "FRONT LINE -- FRONT -- FRONT PORCH OF

AMERICA," BUT I REALLY AM, OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER HEARD THAT TERM

BEFORE.

MR. MORINELLO: YEAH.

(LAUGHTER)

NOT FROM ME ANYWAY, BUT TRUST ME. BUT ANYWAY, LET'S

TAKE -- WE GET TOURISTS COMING THROUGH, OKAY, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF

ASIANS THAT COME THROUGH, OKAY, BECAUSE OF THE WATER ELEMENT AND THE

FEEL OF THE WATER, AND MANY OF THEM CANNOT SPEAK ENGLISH. BUT LET'S

ASSUME ONE OF THEM HAS AN UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT WHERE THEY'RE EITHER

ROBBED, SOMETHING HAPPENS TO THEM. AND THEY DON'T LIVE IN THE AREA,

THEY HAVE TO GIVE A STATEMENT, OKAY, BUT THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO BE

LEAVING THE AREA AND THAT STATEMENT WOULD THEN BE PART OF THE

COMPLAINT OR THE INFORMATION. HOW IS THAT ACCOMPLISHED WITH THE

CERTIFICATION THAT IS NEEDED FROM THE WITNESS OR THE VICTIM?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. CRUZ: SO AGAIN, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE

SIMULTANEOUSLY. YOU ARE TRANSLATING -- LET'S -- LET'S GIVE AN EXAMPLE. I

HAPPEN TO BE THE INTERPRETER FOR THAT PARTICULAR DEPONENT THAT YOU'RE

DESCRIBING. I, AS THE INTERPRETER WILL HAVE TO CERTIFY AND -- AND SIGN OFF,

BASICALLY SAYING I'M QUALIFIED TO BE AN INTERPRETER AND EVERY OTHER

REQUIREMENT THAT THE LAW IS ASKING ME TO PUT INTO THAT AFFIDAVIT. WHAT

HAPPENS ONCE THIS PERSON LEAVES OR HOW USEFUL OR WHAT THE RULES OF

EVIDENCE SAY, THEY CAN BE DONE WITH THAT STATEMENT. ONCE THAT PERSON

LEAVES IS NOT CONTEMPLATED BY THIS BILL.

MR. MORINELLO: OH, NO, BUT -- BUT THE POINT IS IT

WOULD BE A REMOTE TRANSLATION. SOMEBODY AT THE -- ON ONE END OF THE

STATE -- BECAUSE MOST --

MS. CRUZ: LET ME JUST VERIFY, ARE YOU ASKING IF THE

CRIME HAPPENS, THE PERSON WANTS TO FILE A COMPLAINT, BUT THEY'RE FILING

IT ONCE THEY'VE ALREADY LEFT?

MR. MORINELLO: NO, NO, NO. THERE'S AN INCIDENT,

IT'S INVESTIGATED. THE VICTIM GIVES THEIR -- HAS A STATEMENT TO GIVE, BUT

IT'S IN AN OBSCURE LANGUAGE SO THEY HAVE TO CHECK WITH WHATEVER

CENTRAL OFFICE.

MS. CRUZ: MM-HMM.

MR. MORINELLO: THEY FIND IT, BUT IT'S TELEPHONIC.

SO JUST FOR THE SAKE OF THIS, THE VICTIM IS IN NIAGARA FALLS, THE TEL -- THE

TRANSLATION IS IN NEW YORK CITY.

MS. CRUZ: IT'S THE SAME THING BECAUSE WHOEVER'S

DOING THE TELEPHONIC TRANSLATION WOULD STILL HAVE TO PROVIDE THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

AFFIDAVIT.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. AND A WRITTEN COPY OF

THE STATEMENT OR A TRANSLATED COPY --

MS. CRUZ: CORRECT.

MR. MORINELLO: -- OF THE STATEMENT. SO THAT

WOULD HAVE TO BE TRANSMITTED FROM NEW YORK CITY TO WESTERN NEW

YORK --

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. MORINELLO: -- AM I CORRECT? OKAY. SO

WOULD THERE BE ANY CHAIN OF CUSTODY OF THAT PARTICULAR STATEMENT ISSUE

THAT MIGHT HAPPEN?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S NOT CONTEMPLATED BY THIS BILL.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. SO THAT COULD BE AN

UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF THE -- OF THE RULE. AND THE REASON IS YOU'VE

GOT SOMEBODY WHO'S NOT PHYSICALLY THERE, WATCH -- LOOKING AT IT AND

HANDING IT OVER IMMEDIATELY. SO NOW YOU'VE GOT A SITUATION OF

SOMEBODY TRANSLATING IN NEW YORK CITY, THAT HAS TO BE GIVEN TO

SOMEBODY TO MOVE OVER OR TO -- OR TO -- TO TRANSMIT BACK --

MS. CRUZ: JUDGE, IF I MAY, THAT'S A PROCESS THAT IS

VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENS NOW. SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE NYPD CARRIES

AROUND, I BELIEVE IT'S A CARD OR AN ACTUAL SHEET WITH DIFFERENT LANGUAGES,

THE PERSON POINTS TO IT, THEY CALL. SO THE CHAIN OF CUSTODY ISSUE THAT

YOU'RE EXPLAINING IS SOMETHING THAT I SUSPECT IS ALREADY BEING

CONTEMPLATED BECAUSE MANY OF THESE AGENCIES AND ENTITIES ARE ALREADY

USING TELEPHONIC TRANSLATION FOR COMMUNICATION, WHETHER IT'S WITH

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SOMEONE WHO IS SIMPLY APPROACHING A POLICE OFFICER OR SOMEONE WHO

IS AN ACTUAL DEFENDANT. OR EVEN IN THE COURTHOUSE.

MR. MORINELLO: AND IF I UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU

SAID BEFORE CORRECTLY, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A DEFENDANT'S

STATEMENT, BUT WHAT DO WE DO WITH A DEFENDANT WHO SPEAKS AN OBSCURE

LANGUAGE THAT WANTS TO GIVE A STATEMENT, OKAY? THIS WILL NOT APPLY TO

THEM?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: THE -- THE CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS OF

TRANSLATING FOR A DEFENDANT ARE NOT CONTEMPLATED HERE. THERE'S A WHOLE

OTHER SET OF CASE LAW AND REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK -- THANK YOU FOR YOUR

COURTESIES.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MORINELLO ON THE

BILL; SOMETHING I LOVE TO SAY.

MR. MORINELLO: I WOULD LIKE TO START OFF --

(LAUGHTER)

I LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT.

(LAUGHTER)

NO, I'M -- I'M OKAY. I -- I WOULD LIKE TO START OUT WITH

THIS SESSION WE FOCUSED ON ACCURACY OF CONVICTIONS, ACCURACY OF

ALLEGATIONS AND WE TRIED TO AVOID ANY TYPE OF CONVICTIONS THAT WERE NOT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PROPER OR IMPROPER OR ANY LYING. I -- I SEE THAT THIS BILL HAS MERIT, AND I

SUPPORT THE MERIT. I AM JUST CONCERNED ABOUT UNINTENDED

CONSEQUENCES. AND IF YOU GET INTO A -- LET'S GO TO -- AND I'M GONNA USE

MY EXPERIENCE ON THE BENCH -- I'VE HAD WITNESSES THAT HAVE COME BACK

OR STAYED AROUND TO SUPPORT THEIR INFORMATION THAT ARE NOW TESTIFYING

AND UNDER CROSS-EXAMINATION. IT'S GOING TO BE IMPOSSIBLE TO GET AN --

AN INTERPRETER ON AN OBSCURE LANGUAGE FROM ANOTHER PART OF THE STATE.

AND THE CONCERN THERE IS, HOW DO YOU COMPLETE THE TRIAL? HOW -- HOW

DO YOU HAVE THAT INTERPRETER CERTIFY TO THE STATEMENT OR TO THE

TRANSLATION OF THE VICTIM WHILE THEY'RE ON THE STAND UNDER THE CURRENT

CIRCUMSTANCES?

SO THE INTENTION OF THE BILL IS HONORABLE. I HAVE NO

OBJECTION WITH THE INTENTION OF THE BILL, I JUST FEEL THAT THE UNINTENDED

CONSEQUENCES ARE TOO GREAT TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THE -- THE GOALS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: SURE THING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ. I SEE THE

BILL LANGUAGE SAYS THAT AN ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENT -- INSTRUMENT --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. CRUZ: CAN YOU REPEAT THAT, THAT IT SAYS WHAT?

MR. GOODELL: THE BILL LANGUAGE SAYS THAT AN

ACCUSATORY STATEMENT, QUOTE, "SHALL NOT BE SUFFICIENT UNLESS

ACCOMPANIED BY A CERTIFIED TRANSLATION." WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE

PHRASE "SHALL NOT BE SUFFICIENT"?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: YOU CAN'T USE IT UNLESS IT HAS THAT. IF -- IF

THE PERSON WHO IS PROVIDING THE STATEMENT IS NOT -- IS NOT PROFICIENT IN

ENGLISH, THEN THE ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENT IS NOT DEEMED SUFFICIENTLY

COMPLETED, LEGALLY SUFFICIENT, IN ORDER TO BE USED AS ANY OTHER

ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENT OR UNLESS IT IS ACCOMPANIED BY THAT TRANSLATION

CERTIFICATION.

MR. GOODELL: SO JUST SOME EXAMPLES SO WE

UNDERSTAND. SO YOU'RE SAYING IT COULD NOT BE USED TO ESTABLISH

PROBABLE CAUSE FOR A SEARCH WARRANT?

MS. CRUZ: FOR A -- FOR -- I'M SORRY. I -- I THINK

YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO SPEAK A LITTLE BIT LOUDER.

MR. GOODELL: SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE

STATEMENT, UNTIL ACCOMPANIED BY A WRITTEN CERTIFICATION, COULD NOT BE

USED TO ESTABLISH PROBABLE CAUSE FOR A SEARCH WARRANT?

MS. CRUZ: YUP, CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND IT COULD NOT BE USED TO JUSTIFY

AN ARREST, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND UNTIL IT HAD A CERTIFIED

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

TRANSLATION, COULD NOT OBVIOUSLY BE USED AT TRIAL.

MS. CRUZ: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, ISN'T IT POSSIBLE, THOUGH, THAT

THE ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENT OR THE -- THE ACCUSATION BY SOMEONE WHO IS

SPEAKING A FOREIGN LANGUAGE COULD BE ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY TRANSLATED

BY SOMEBODY WITH THAT FAMILIARITY WHO IS NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSLATOR?

MS. CRUZ: THE PROBLEM WITH INSTANCES LIKE THAT IS

IT THEN LEADS TO APPEALS, TO GROUNDS FOR APPEAL.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, YOU REFERENCE --

MS. CRUZ: ESPECIALLY IF IT'S NOT COMPLETELY

ACCURATE. AND -- AND I'M GOING TO USE AN EXAMPLE FROM WHEN I USED TO

BE IN PRACTICE. I -- EVEN SOMETIMES INTERPRETERS WHO ARE VERY WELL-

MEANING WILL MISINTERPRET A WORD BECAUSE OF WHAT JUDGE MORINELLO

WAS EXPLAINING BEFORE, THERE ARE DIALECTS OR THERE ARE DIFFERENCES IN,

YOU KNOW, FROM COUNTRY TO COUNTRY. AND SO WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A

CERTIFIED INTERPRETER AND THEY MIGHT USE A DIFFERENT WORD, YOU'RE GOING

TO NOW HAVE GROUNDS FOR A POSSIBLE APPEAL.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, YOU REFERENCED SEVERAL

PLACES THE PHRASE "AN INTERPRETER."

MS. CRUZ: CAN YOU REPEAT THAT? I'M SORRY.

MR. GOODELL: CERTAINLY. THE STATUTE REPEATEDLY

REFERENCES THE PHRASE "INTERPRETER," OR "THE INTERPRETER," OR...

MS. CRUZ: INTERPRETER, TRANSLATOR; WE USE THAT

INTERCHANGEABLY.

MR. GOODELL: IS THIS A REQUIREMENT THAT THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PERSON WHO DOES THE TRANSLATION BE IN ANY WAY CERTIFIED, OR CAN THEY

MERELY STATE THAT THEY ARE BILINGUAL?

MS. CRUZ: IT WOULD HAVE TO -- I THINK THE SECOND

ONE IS CORRECT, THAT THEY ARE INTERPRETING TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY.

THE REASON WHY I KEPT ON MENTIONING EARLIER SOME OF THESE

PROFESSIONAL SERVICES IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN USED BY OUR COURT

SYSTEM ALREADY FOR A COUPLE OF -- OF YEARS.

MR. GOODELL: AND THE LANGUAGE MAKES IT CLEAR,

THEN, THAT THIS ACCUSATION COULDN'T BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE, INCLUDING

OBTAINING A SEARCH WARRANT, UNTIL THERE WAS A WRITTEN CERTIFICATION AS TO

THE ACCURACY?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: SO I WANT TO READ A LITTLE SECTION ON THE

RECORD FOR YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE -- THE CORRECT

QUALIFICATIONS OF THE INTERPRETER. "AN AFFIDAVIT BY THE INTERPRETER

STATING THAT THE INTERPRETER'S QUALIFICATIONS AND AFFIRMING THE ACCURACY

OF SUCH TRANSLATION." THAT LANGUAGE, FOR ANY -- FOR THOSE OF US IN -- IN

PRACTICE WHO HAVE EVER HAD TO USE A TRANSLATOR, IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT'S

ALREADY USED WHEN YOU HAVE TO CERTIFY THE INTERPRETATION/TRANSLATION OF

THE DOCUMENT. SO IT'S -- IT'S VERY COMMON ALREADY.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WE TALKED ABOUT THE

STATEMENT NOT BEING SUFFICIENT FOR PROBABLE CAUSE OR ARREST OR FOR A

SEARCH WARRANT. WOULD THE STATEMENT PRIOR TO A WRITTEN CERTIFICATION BE

SUFFICIENT FOR AN APB OR AN AMBER ALERT OR A SILVER ALERT OR

SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. CRUZ: HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

(PAUSE)

THE BILL DOESN'T CONTEMPLATE THAT, AND I'M NOT SURE, I

DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE EVER HEARD OF AN ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENT ACTUALLY

BEING USED FOR THOSE PURPOSES. IT MAY BE, BUT I'M NOT -- I DON'T THINK

I'VE EVER HEARD OF THAT.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR

COMMENTS.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

MR. GOODELL: ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.

GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: NO HAPPINESS TO HEAR THAT?

(LAUGHTER)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I'M ALWAYS SMILING

WHEN YOU GET ON THE MIC, NO MATTER HOW I FEEL.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. GOODELL: OKAY THEN. ON THE BILL.

I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE TO MAKE SURE THAT

AN ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENT THAT'S -- THAT'S MADE TO THE POLICE OR LAW

ENFORCEMENT IS ACCURATELY TRANSLATED. I THINK THAT'S A BELIEF AND AN

OBJECTIVE THAT ALL OF US IN THIS ROOM SHARE. THE CONCERN I HAVE IS THAT

THIS LANGUAGE SAYS THAT UNTIL YOU GET THAT CERTIFIED TRANSLATION, YOU CAN'T

USE THIS STATEMENT AT ALL. AS MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED, THAT STATEMENT

UNTIL YOU GET A CERTIFIED TRANSLATION, QUOTE, "SHALL NOT BE SUFFICIENT."

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTIVITIES THAT ARE VERY TIME-

SENSITIVE. SO IF THE POLICE GET A REPORT OF WHAT A NEIGHBOR BELIEVES

MIGHT HAVE BEEN A MURDER OR A FELONIOUS ASSAULT OR A KIDNAPPING, THE

POLICE MAY NEED TO ACT IMMEDIATELY TO SECURE THE LOCATION, TO GET A

SEARCH WARRANT, TO STOP THE FURTHER COMMISSION OF A CRIME, OR TO CATCH

THE PERPETRATOR. IT SEEMS THE RIGHT BALANCE WOULD BE TO SAY THAT AN

ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENT IN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE CAN'T BE USED AT TRIAL

UNLESS ACCOMPANIED BY THE CERTIFICATION. BUT WE MOST ASSUREDLY WANT

TO BE ABLE TO USE THAT STATEMENT IN REGULAR LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTIVITIES,

PARTICULARLY WHEN TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. SO IF WE GET A -- A -- A

COMPLAINT TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, LET'S SAY IT'S IN A COMMON

LANGUAGE, LET'S SAY IT'S IN SPANISH, AND LET'S SAY THE OFFICER, THE DESK

SERGEANT, UNDERSTANDS SPANISH. HE CAN'T DISPATCH A CAR TO STOP A -- A

KIDNAPPING THAT'S IN PROCESS? HE CAN'T REFER THAT TO A WARRANT UNTIL WE

GET A WRITTEN CERTIFIED TRANSLATION? OBVIOUSLY, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE

THAT WE HAVE CLEAR AND OPEN COMMUNICATION. EVERYONE, INCLUDING THE

SPONSOR AND I, AGREE ON THAT. BUT WE NEED SOME BALANCE TO ENSURE THAT

THOSE STATEMENTS CAN BE USED IN THE INTERIM TO PROTECT INNOCENT

VICTIMS, TO MOVE FORWARD QUICKLY WITH THE NECESSARY DUE PROCESS,

PROBABLE CAUSE, WARRANTS OR WHATEVER ACTION IS NEEDED TO PROTECT THE

PUBLIC.

AND SO I HOPE THAT IF THIS COMES BACK, THAT WE SEE A

CHAPTER AMENDMENT THAT CLARIFIES THAT THOSE STATEMENTS CANNOT BE USED

IN A TRIAL UNTIL THEY'RE CERTIFIED, BUT CAN BE USED IN THE INTERIM WHERE

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE TO SAVE LIVES OR PROTECT PEOPLE. AND FOR THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

REASON I WILL BE OPPOSING THIS PARTICULAR LANGUAGE, BUT HOPE WE SEE A

NEW VERSION AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER AND,

AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. ANGELINO.

MR. ANGELINO: ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.

ANGELINO.

MR. ANGELINO: WHILE EVERYBODY WANTS ACCURACY

AND WE WANT CORRECTNESS, AND WE WANT EVERYTHING TO ENSURE A

CONVICTION AT THE END OF A -- OF A CASE, IT'S ALL WELL AND GOOD THAT WE'RE

DISCUSSING THIS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY IN THIS BEAUTIFUL BUILDING,

SURROUNDED BY ATTORNEYS AND KNOWLEDGEABLE PROFESSIONALS. A LOT OF

THE -- A LOT THE INCIDENTS THAT TAKE PLACE ARE MORE THAN LIKELY GOING TO

BE ON THE FRONT SEAT OF A PATROL CAR TALKING TO A DISTRAUGHT VICTIM WITH

RADIO COMMUNICATIONS BEING THE ONLY WAY THAT AN OFFICER CAN

COMMUNICATE. CELL PHONE SERVICE IS SKETCHY IN MUCH OF MY DISTRICT AS

SOON AS I GET OFF A PAVED HIGHWAY, A STATE HIGHWAY.

THE INTENTIONS OF THIS ARE GOOD, BUT IN PRACTICAL

APPLICATION IT IS GONNA BE NEAR IMPOSSIBLE FOR A VICTIM TO GET JUSTICE

AND FOR A -- A PERPETRATOR TO BE CAUGHT IN A TIMELY MANNER. THERE'S

BEEN SITUATIONS INSIDE THE KITCHEN OF A HOUSE DURING A VIOLENT DOMESTIC

OF A HISPANIC -- HISPANIC-SPEAKING PEOPLE, WHERE AN OFFICER IS LUCKY

THAT HE CAN SPEAK SPANISH. HE GETS THE GIST OF THE INFORMATION AND PUT

OUT A BROADCAST TO STOP SOMEBODY. THIS IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN NOW IN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE ARREST PHASE IF THIS BECOMES LAW.

AGAIN, WELL-INTENTIONED, BUT IN PRACTICAL APPLICATION I

CAN'T SUPPORT THIS BECAUSE IT'S -- IT'S NOT GONNA HELP VICTIMS. THANK

YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR.

ANGELINO.

MS. CRUZ, ON THE BILL?

(PAUSE)

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. ON THIS

LEGISLATION, THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY IN THE

NEGATIVE. IF THERE ARE ANY MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE, THEY MAY DO SO AT THEIR DESKS. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MS.

WALSH.

MR. FALL.

MR. FALL: THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. FOR THOSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO

VOTE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION CAN DO SO AT THEIR DESK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

AND MS. CRUZ TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JUST WANT TO

MAKE SURE THAT THE RECORD IS CLEAR. THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION ABSOLUTELY

DOES NOT IMPACT WHAT HAPPENS DURING AN ARREST. WE HAVE A SEPARATE

SET OF LAWS FOR THAT, A SEPARATE SET OF CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR

THAT. WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS SAY IF THE INFORMATION THAT GOES INTO WHAT'S

ACTUALLY CALLED AN INFORMATION OR AN ACCUSATORY DOCUMENT, CONTAINS

STATEMENTS BY SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT SPEAK ENGLISH AS THEIR FIRST

LANGUAGE OR WHO IS NOT PROFICIENT, THEN WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS

CERTIFIED BY SOMEONE AS HAVING BEEN TRANSLATED ACCURATELY. IF WE

ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT VICTIMS AND ABOUT JUSTICE, WE WANT TO DO THAT AND

NEED TO DO THAT IN THIS STATE WHERE CONTINUOUSLY WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO

SPEAK MANY OTHER LANGUAGES. WHAT THIS DOES IS ENSURE THAT WHATEVER

HAPPENS DURING THAT ARREST, WHATEVER HAPPENS DURING THE PROCESS OF

PUTTING THE INFORMATION INTO -- THE INFORMATION DOES NOT RESULT IN A

PIECE OF WORK THAT ACTUALLY CAN BE OVERTURNED. WE ALL WANT ACCURACY,

WE ALL WANT JUSTICE FOR VICTIMS. WE ALL WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT

WHATEVER IS GIVEN TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, TO THE POLICE AS PART OF THE

ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENT DOES NOT RESULT IN OVERTURNING A CASE AND

ACTUALLY TAKING JUSTICE AWAY FROM A VICTIM.

I'M GOING TO URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE YES, AND I

WILL BE DOING THE SAME. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ IN THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. CHANG TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. CHANG: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I THANK THE

SPONSOR FOR THIS BILL. IT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT I SUPPORT THIS BILL

BECAUSE IN MY COMMUNITY IN BROOKLYN, WHICH IS -- I REPRESENT -- 54

PERCENT ARE ASIAN, MANY OF THEM ARE -- HAVE -- ENGLISH IS NOT THEIR

PRIMARY LANGUAGE AND MANY OF THEM DO NOT HAVE PAPERS TO STAY IN THIS

COUNTRY. AND I HAVE SEVERAL CONSTITUENTS HAVE ISSUES DEALING WITH THE

LAW ENFORCEMENT SIDE AND LANGUAGE IS A LARGE BARRIER. NOW, SINCE I

LIVE IN BROOKLYN AND NEW YORK CITY HAS A VERY LARGE RESOURCES ON

TRANSLATION SUPPORT, ESPECIALLY OVER THE PHONE THAT ANY CITY AGENCY

HAVE, I'M ALSO CONCERN ON SOME OTHER UPSTATE AGENCY MAY NOT HAVE

THIS KIND OF WEALTH OR BREADTH OF SUPPORT FOR TRANSLATOR. I AM MORE

CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, TOO. I WISH THAT THESE AGENCIES WILL -- WILL PAY

ATTENTION AND FUND TRANSLATOR. BUT IN NEW YORK CITY, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR

ME, ESPECIALLY IN MY DISTRICT. MANY OF THEM ARE IMMIGRANTS. AND I

KNOW EVEN THROUGH MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH MY FAMILY THAT

ENGLISH IS NOT THEIR PRIMARY LANGUAGE. AND I'M ALWAYS AFRAID WHEN

THEY ENCOUNTER LAW ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE AND -- AND ANY -- OR ANY WITH

UNIFORM; IT COULD BE INSPECTION, IT COULD BE METER READING, IT COULD BE

TRAFFIC AGENTS. THEY'RE AFRAID TO -- TO EXPRESS THEIR CONCERN WHEN

CONFRONTED BY THEM.

SO IN THIS BILL, I SUPPORT IT, YES. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. CHANG IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 9, RULES REPORT NO. 451, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05221-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 451, OTIS, BENEDETTO, SIMON, LEE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE

DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION TO IMPLEMENT PERMIT

REGULATIONS AND GUIDANCE REGARDING SHORELINE MANAGEMENT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

OTIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MR. OTIS.

MR. OTIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER; THANK YOU, MR.

GOODELL. THIS BILL WOULD PLACE INTO STATUTE THE POLICY PREFERENCE IN

THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW THAT STABILIZING TIDAL SHORELINES

WOULD BE DONE VIA NATURE-BASED SOLUTIONS. WETLAND RESTORATIONS,

VEGETATION, OYSTER REEFS, RATHER THAN HARDENING KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE

BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, BAD FOR FLOOD CONTROL, BAD FOR EROSION. SO, A

SIMPLE BILL IS PROVIDING A PREFERENCE IN DEC'S STATUTE. BUT YOU SHOULD

BE AWARE THAT DEC ALREADY FOLLOWS THESE POLICIES. THEY PUT OUT A

GUIDANCE DOCUMENT IN 2017 THAT GUIDES THEIR WORK THAT ALREADY GIVES A

PREFERENCE TO THOSE KINDS OF VALUES, AND SO THIS BILL WOULD PUT INTO

STATUTE SOMETHING THE DEC IS ALREADY GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION ON.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

100

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

MR. OTIS: CERTAINLY, ANDY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. OTIS, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MR. OTIS: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. OTIS YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. OTIS. I -- I SEE THIS

IS AN A-PRINT, MEANING IT'S BEEN AMENDED. WHAT WAS THE AMENDMENT

FROM THE ORIGINAL AND WHY?

MR. OTIS: SURELY. THE AMENDMENTS WERE TO MAKE

IT VERY CLEAR, COMPARED TO THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE, THAT THIS IS A

PREFERENCE AND NOT A MANDATE OR A REQUIREMENT. IN SOME SETTINGS,

NATURE-BASED SOLUTIONS MAY NOT WORK, AND SO THIS IS -- CLARIFIES THAT

LANGUAGE THAT WE'D PREFER NATURE-BASED SOLUTIONS, BUT IF IT'S NOT

APPROPRIATE, THEN THERE MAY BE OTHER SOLUTIONS WOULD BE AUTHORIZED.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT

CLARIFICATION; THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. OTIS: THANK YOU, MR. GOODELL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. OTIS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. OTIS: I JUST WANT TO THANK IN TERMS OF THIS

101

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

LEGISLATION, RIVERKEEPER, NATURE CONSERVANCY, SENATOR SHELLEY MAYER,

HER STAFF, OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS AND THE DEPARTMENT OF

ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION. GIVEN THE ISSUE OF SEA LEVEL RISE AND --

AND THE FLOOD DAMAGE WE'VE HAD AROUND THE STATE, THESE ARE PRINCIPLES

THAT WILL SERVE US ALL VERY WELL.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. OTIS IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, MEMBERS

HAVE ON THEIR DESKS AN A-CALENDAR. I'D LIKE TO MOVE TO ADVANCE THAT

A-CALENDAR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON MRS. PEOPLES-

STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PAGE 3, RULES REPORT

NO. 867 ON THE A-CALENDAR, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05286-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 867, EPSTEIN, BURDICK, WOERNER, DE LOS SANTOS, REYES.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE FINANCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO CREATING A

PRIVATE EDUCATION DEBT REGISTRY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

102

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: OH. ON A MOTION BY

MR. EPSTEIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06538, RULES REPORT

NO. 868, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO A CHILD CARE LEAVE CREDIT FOR NEW YORK

CITY UNIFORMED CORRECTION OFFICERS WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE NEW YORK

CITY UNIFORMED CORRECTION/SANITATION REVISED PLAN.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

103

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06722-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 869, BARRETT. AN ACT TO ALLOW BENJAMIN DOTY TO BE ELIGIBLE

TO TAKE THE CIVIL SERVICE EXAM FOR THE POSITION OF DEPUTY SHERIFF FOR

THE COLUMBIA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

BARRETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07250, RULES REPORT

NO. 870, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL

LAW, IN RELATION TO DISABILITIES OF FIRE ALARM DISPATCHERS IN CERTAIN

CITIES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

104

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07675, RULES REPORT

NO. 871, HUNTER. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 591 OF THE LAWS OF 2001,

AMENDING THE BANKING LAW RELATING TO LIMITING THE CHECK CASHING

EXEMPTION FOR NATIONAL BANKS AND OTHER REGULATED ENTITIES, IN RELATION

TO THE EFFECTIVENESS OF SUCH CHAPTER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

HUNTER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

MR. GOODELL.

A PARTY VOTE HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL FOR REASONS THAT WE HOPE

TO EXPLAIN SHORTLY. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED TO

VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW OF US THAT WOULD

105

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

DECIDE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. WE SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT OUR SEATS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. RA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WHAT THIS BILL

DOES IS EXTENDS A PROVISION IN THE BANKING LAW THAT PROHIBITS OTHER

TYPES OF CHECK CASHING INSTITUTIONS, THOSE NAMELY OWNED BY BANKS,

FROM LOCATING WITHIN THREE-TENTHS OF A MILE OF A LICENSED CHECK CASHING

FACILITY. NOW, THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES THAT ARE REGULATED AND

LICENSED DIFFERENTLY. THIS HAS BEEN EXTENDED A NUMBER OF TIMES IN THE

PAST, AND THIS IS AN EXTENDER FOR ANOTHER TWO YEARS. AND -- AND

BASICALLY WHAT IT DOES IS IT PROHIBITS POTENTIAL COMPETITORS, THOSE BEING

OWNED BY BANKS, FROM LOCATING WITHIN THREE-TENTHS OF A MILE OF A

LICENSED CHECK CASHING FACILITY, AND -- AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY THERE

IS MANY NO VOTES ON THIS BILL.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA IN THE

NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF WE COULD

NOW TURN OUR ATTENTION BACK TO -- TO THE DEBATE CALENDAR, WE'RE GOING TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

GO ON TO RULES REPORT NO. 700 BY MS. JOYNTER -- MS. JOYNER, AND

RULES REPORT NO. 788 BY MRS. COOK WHICH WILL BE DEBATED BY MS.

LUNSFORD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

PAGE 13, RULES REPORT NO. 700, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S06720, RULES REPORT NO.

700, SENATOR BRISPORT (A05394, JOYNER, ALVAREZ, HEVESI, HYNDMAN,

REYES, JACKSON, WALKER, RAGA, TAPIA, KELLES, CLARK). AN ACT TO

AMEND THE FAMILY COURT ACT AND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION

TO ESTABLISHING PROCEDURES REGARDING ORDERS OF POST-TERMINATION

VISITATION AND/OR CONTACT BETWEEN A CHILD AND SUCH CHILD'S PARENT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MS. JOYNER.

MS. JOYNER: YES. THIS BILL GRANTS FAMILY COURT

JUDGES THE DISCRETION TO ORDER CONTINUED VISITATION AND CONTACT BETWEEN

CHILDREN AND THEIR BIRTH PARENTS AFTER A PARENT'S RIGHTS HAVE BEEN

TERMINATED. THE JUDGE MAY GRANT POST-TERMINATION CONTACT AT A

DISPOSITION HEARING AND A PARENTAL RIGHTS TERMINATION PROCEEDING WHEN

IT WOULD BE IN THE CHILD'S BEST INTEREST.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MS.

WALSH.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU. THIS BILL HAS BEEN

DEBATED A COUPLE TIMES. FOR THOSE MEMBERS WHO ARE IN THE CHAMBER

THAT WEREN'T HERE FOR PRIOR DEBATES, I'M GONNA START FROM -- KIND OF START

FROM THE BEGINNING SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE I'M COMING FROM AND

WHY I HAVE SUCH SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR BILL.

THIS LEGISLATION WAS VETOED IN BOTH 2019 AND 2020

AFTER FACING BIPARTISAN OPPOSITION. THE BILL HAS NOT BEEN AMENDED IN

ANY SIGNIFICANT WAY SINCE THEN. SO, THE TERM THAT YOU'RE GONNA HEAR IS

TPR, WHICH STANDS FOR TERMINATION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS, AND THE

QUESTION THEN IS WHY ARE A BIOLOGICAL PARENT'S RIGHTS TERMINATED, OR

TPR'D. IT'S DUE TO ABANDONMENT, PERMANENT NEGLECT, REPEATED OR

SEVERE ABUSE OF A CHILD, OR AN INABILITY TO PARENT DUE TO MENTAL ILLNESS

OR INTELLECTUAL ABILITY. AND IT IS -- I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT IN THE

YEARS THAT I'VE PRACTICED IN FAMILY COURT, THESE ARE THE SADDEST CASES

THAT COME IN -- INTO FAMILY COURT. THEY ARE -- IT CAN BE REALLY

HEARTBREAKING. AND THEY CAN GO ON FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

SO VERY OFTEN HOW IT COMES UP IS THERE IS AN ABUSE OR

A NEGLECT MATTER THAT IS BROUGHT IN FRONT OF FAMILY COURT, AND THERE HAS

BEEN A FINDING OF ABUSE OR NEGLECT AGAINST A PARTICULAR PARENT,

BIOLOGICAL PARENT. AT THAT POINT, THE CHILD MAY, IS OFTEN, REMOVED TO

FAMILY -- TO FOSTER CARE. AND THERE IS A -- A PROCESS THAT'S SET UP IN

ORDER TO TRY AND EVEN PRIOR TO THE ABUSE AND NEGLECT FINDING THERE

WOULD BE SERVICES THAT WOULD BE PROVIDED THROUGH THE LOCAL

DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES IN ORDER TO TRY TO CORRECT THE UNDERLYING

DEFICIENCY IN PARENTING THAT LED TO THE ABUSE OR NEGLECT HOTLINE BEING

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MADE AND FINDING BEING MADE. SO THE -- THOSE INTERVENTIONS COULD BE,

YOU NEED TO -- YOU NEED TO STOP YOUR ADDICTION TO DRUGS, TO ALCOHOL,

YOU NEED TO GO TO MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING, YOU NEED TO AVOID CONTACT

WITH YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER WHO HAS BEEN OR IS FEARED TO HAVE SEXUALLY

ABUSED YOUR CHILDREN. ANY NUMBER OF THINGS LIKE THAT, SOCIAL SERVICES

WILL WORK WITH THAT INDIVIDUAL FOR A VERY, VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME AND

EXTEND A LOT OF EFFORT TO TRY AGAIN TO CORRECT THE UNDERLYING CAUSES AND

REASONS FOR THE ABUSE OR THE -- OR THE NEGLECT.

AFTER THE CHILD IS REMOVED TO FOSTER CARE AND HAS

FOSTER PARENTS, THERE ARE THINGS CALLED PERMANENCY HEARINGS THAT

HAPPEN PERIODICALLY WHERE THE COURT BRINGS THE PARTIES BACK IN, AND IF

THE CHILD IS 14 OR OVER, THE CHILD WILL COME, TOO. BEFORE THAT TIME, THE

CHILD WILL BE -- OR CHILDREN WILL BE APPOINTED WITH ATTORNEYS FOR THE

CHILDREN WHO WILL APPEAR IN THEIR STEAD, AND THAT'S THE WORK THAT I DO IN

FAMILY COURT, I REPRESENT KIDS IN FAMILY COURT. SO I'VE ATTENDED A

NUMBER OF THESE PERMANENCY HEARINGS. I ALSO PROSECUTED ABUSE AND

NEGLECT CASES AS AN ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY IN MY COUNTY. SO, YOU

KNOW, I'VE GOT A LOT OF FAMILIARITY WITH THIS PROCESS. AT THESE

PERMANENCY HEARINGS, THERE IS A GOAL THAT IS ESTABLISHED FOR THAT CHILD.

AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PERMANENCY HEARING PROCESS, THE GOAL IS

ALMOST INVARIANTLY RETURNED TO PARENT. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO

ACCOMPLISH IN FAMILY COURT, WE ARE TRYING TO ESSENTIALLY REPAIR THROUGH

COUNSELING AND IN OTHER SERVICES AND SUPPORTS, WE'RE TRYING TO REPAIR

THAT FAMILY UNIT SO THAT IT WILL BE SAFE AND IN THE CHILD'S BEST INTEREST TO

RETURN TO THAT PARENT. OVER TIME, AS MULTIPLE PERMANENCY HEARINGS ARE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

HELD, AND I BELIEVE, I MIGHT BE MISTAKEN, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE HELD

EVERY SIX MONTHS, MIGHT BE EIGHT MONTHS, BUT I THINK IT'S SIX MONTHS.

THESE PERMANENCY HEARINGS ARE HELD AFTER YOU HAVE THE RETURN TO

PARENT, RETURN TO PARENT GOAL ESTABLISHED AND REESTABLISHED, AT SOME

POINT IN AN INTEREST TO HAVE A PERMANENCY FOR THAT -- FOR THAT CHILD, THE

GOAL CHANGES AND THE GOAL CHANGES TO FREE FOR ADOPTION. THAT BECOMES

THE NEW GOAL.

NOW, SOMETIMES YOU HAVE FOSTER PARENTS WHO ARE

SIMPLY ACTING AS FOSTER PARENTS TEMPORARILY AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN

PERMANENTLY ADOPTING THE CHILD, BUT WHAT I'VE SEEN IS THAT IN A -- IN A

NUMBER OF CASES THAT I'VE WORKED ON, FOSTER PARENTS REALLY FALL IN LOVE

WITH THE KIDS THAT ARE PLACED WITH THEM VERY OFTEN, AND OPEN THEIR

HEARTS, AND GOD BLESS THEM, AND THEY -- AND THEY WANT TO ADOPT THESE

CHILDREN AND MAKE THEM FULL AND COMPLETE MEMBERS OF THEIR

HOUSEHOLD AND THEY WANT TO BE THEIR PARENTS. THEY WANT TO BE THEIR

PARENTS AND PROVIDE FOR THEM THE REMAINDER OF THEIR LIVES. YOU KNOW,

THAT IS RARE RIGHT NOW. UNFORTUNATELY NEW YORK STATE IS 48TH OUT OF 50

STATES IN TERMS OF PLACEMENT OF CHILDREN FOR ADOPTION WHO HAVE BEEN IN

FOSTER CARE FOR TWO YEARS OR MORE. IT'S REALLY TOUGH TO FIND SPECIAL

ADOPTIVE PARENTS TO STEP UP AND RAISE THEIR HAND AND SAY, I NOT ONLY

WANT TO TEMPORARILY PROVIDE FOR THESE CHILDREN AS FOSTER PARENTS, BUT I

WANT TO ADOPT.

SO ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THIS BILL REALLY CONCERNS ME

IS THAT AFTER A PARENT, A BIOLOGICAL PARENT, HAS GONE THROUGH THAT LONG,

LONG PATH AND HAS BEEN FOUND TO BE SO DEFICIENT IN TERMS OF PARENTING,

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THAT YOU NEED TO TERMINATE THAT PARENT'S PARENTAL RIGHTS, AND THE PHRASE

THAT I WOULD USE IS THAT THEY HAVE SHOWN THROUGH THEIR CHOICES AND

CONTINUED ACTIONS THAT THEY WERE UNABLE TO PRIORITIZE OR MEET THEIR

CHILD'S BASIC NEEDS. AND THAT'S SAD. AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A LOT OF

DEBATE EARLIER, THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS ABOUT THE NEED FOR -- TO

UNDERSTAND THAT THERE CAN BE REDEMPTION AND SECOND CHANCES, AND I

BELIEVE IN THOSE. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT AFTER WE'VE GONE DOWN THIS LONG,

LONG ROAD WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT A TERMINATION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS, THAT

MANY, MANY THINGS HAVE BEEN TRIED IN ORDER TO REVERSE THE TRAJECTORY OF

THIS PARENT WITH THIS CHILD, IN THIS FAMILY. AND WE'VE HIT A PLACE WHERE

WE REALLY HAVE TO, IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH THE PERMANENCY FOR THIS CHILD,

WE NEED TO TERMINATE THE PARENTAL RIGHTS.

WHAT THIS BILL SAYS, AND LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS BILL

SPECIFICALLY DOES, ONCE YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE THE GOAL CHANGES

AND YOU'RE LOOKING TO TERMINATE PARENTAL RIGHTS, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF

DIFFERENT PATHS FOR GETTING THERE. ONE WAY IS BY CONSENT. WHEN THE

BIOLOGICAL PARENT TO SOME EXTENT COMES TO AN ACCEPTANCE THAT -- THAT

THE CHILD DESERVES TO BE IN A PERMANENT SETTING THAT THEY CANNOT

PROVIDE FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND THEY CONSENT TO HAVING THEIR PARENTAL

RIGHTS TERMINATED, THAT HAPPENS VERY, VERY FREQUENTLY AND WHAT

HAPPENS IN THOSE INSTANCES IS THAT THERE IS, THERE'S USUALLY SOME TYPE OF

POST-TPR CONTACT THAT IS ALLOWED. IT COULD BE SCHOOL PICTURES, IT COULD

BE REPORT CARDS, IT COULD BE, IN SOME INSTANCES IT COULD BE MEETING WITH

THE CHILD AT THE DISCRETION OF THE ADOPTIVE PARENTS, OR PRE-ADOPTIVE

PARENTS. THE SECOND WAY IS AFTER A TRIAL OR HEARING IN THE MATTER, A

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

JUDGE TERMINATES THE PARENTAL RIGHTS OF THAT BIOLOGICAL PARENT. AND I

HAVE BEEN THROUGH THOSE, AS WELL, AND THAT -- AND THOSE ARE TOUGH. BUT

THEY DO -- THEY DO HAPPEN AND SOMETIMES THAT'S NECESSARY.

AFTER THERE'S A COURT-ORDERED SURRENDER FOLLOWING A

TRIAL, WHAT THIS BILL WOULD SAY IS THAT THERE -- THERE IS A RIGHT FOR THAT

BIOLOGICAL PARENT, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEIR RIGHTS HAVE BEEN

TERMINATED AS TO THAT CHILD, TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO SEE OR HAVE

CONTACT OF -- OF SOME LEVEL, AND TO BE ABLE TO GET A COURT TO ORDER SOME

CONTINUED CONTACT AT THAT POINT. THEY GET ONE TRY UNDER THIS BILL. THEY

HAVE TO -- THEY HAVE TO SHOW THAT THE CONTACT HAS BEEN DENIED AND THEY

HAVE TO SHOW THAT THEY DESERVE IT AND THAT IT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE

CHILD TO GET IT. IF THE COURT GRANTS EVEN JUST A LITTLE BIT OF CONTACT, A

LITTLE BIT, THEN THAT PERPETUALLY OPENS THE DOOR FOR REPEATED AND

REPEATED AND REPEATED PETITIONS TO EXPAND THAT CONTACT. AND THAT, MY

FRIENDS, DOES NOT ACHIEVE ANY PERMANENCY FOR THAT CHILD. THAT CHILD IS

GOING TO HAVE, SAY, HIS ADOPTIVE PARENTS AND HIS BIOLOGICAL PARENT OR

PARENTS CONSTANTLY EMBROILED IN THE FAMILY COURT SYSTEM LOOKING FOR

GREATER AND GREATER CONTACT. AND AS THE CHILD BECOMES OLDER, THEY

UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A PROCESS THAT THEY'RE GETTING DRAGGED THROUGH,

AS WELL.

SO IT'S -- IT'S I BELIEVE REALLY UNFAIR TO THAT CHILD WHO, I

ADMIT, WILL BE CURIOUS ABOUT THEIR BIOLOGICAL PARENT, DEPENDING UPON

HOW AWARE THEY WERE BEFORE THEY WERE REMOVED TO FOSTER CARE AND

ULTIMATELY ADOPTED, THEY'RE GOING TO BE CURIOUS ABOUT THEIR PARENT.

AND WHEN THEY BECOME 18, I HAVE SEEN 18-YEAR-OLDS, 18, 19, 20-YEAR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

-OLDS TRY TO RECONNECT WITH THEIR BIOLOGICAL PARENT, AND I'M OKAY WITH

THAT, BECAUSE I FEEL THAT AT THAT POINT, THEY HAVE REACHED THE LEVEL OF

MATURITY TO BE ABLE TO MAKE -- MAKE THAT CONTACT AND THAT DECISION ON

THEIR OWN.

BUT WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT BASICALLY SAYS THAT INSTEAD

OF LOOKING OUT FOR THE CHILD'S BEST INTEREST, I BELIEVE WHAT IT'S DOING IS

IT'S SAYING WE FEEL SORRY FOR THE BIOLOGICAL PARENT. THAT BIOLOGICAL

PARENT HAS MADE MISTAKES BUT THEY SHOULD STILL HAVE CONTACT WITH THEIR

CHILD, AND I DON'T -- I JUST DON'T -- I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

I WANT TO -- I WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU SOME OF THE

OPPOSITION TO THIS BILL, IN ADDITION TO THE OPPOSITION THAT WE'VE HAD IN

THIS CHAMBER BEFORE IN THE TIMES THAT WE'VE HAD VOTES ON IT. I WANT TO

READ FROM THE VETO MESSAGE FROM GOVERNOR HOCHUL WHERE SHE SAID,

"FUNDAMENTALLY, HOWEVER, WE MUST PROTECT THE RIGHTS AND INTERESTS OF

CHILDREN IN THE FAMILY COURT SYSTEM. IT IS ESSENTIAL TO ACHIEVE

PERMANENCY FOR CHILDREN IN FOSTER CARE, AND ONCE PARENTAL RIGHTS ARE

TERMINATED, IT IS OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE TO SUPPORT THE ADOPTIVE

FAMILIES IN PROVIDING A LOVING AND PERMANENT HOME FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

CHILDREN DESERVE TO HAVE PARENTS WITH FULL RIGHTS, AND THE LAW SHOULD

OFFER FINALITY TO THESE PARENTS AFTER THE LENGTHY AND CAREFULLY

CONTEMPLATED ADOPTIVE PROCESS. AS WRITTEN, THIS BILL DOES NOT PROVIDE

ADOPTIVE PARENTS WITH THIS CRITICAL PARENS PATRIAE AUTHORITY TO DECIDE

WHAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THEIR CHILD. INSTEAD, THE BILL WOULD ALLOW

THE COURT TO SUBSTITUTE ITS JUDGMENT FOR THAT OF THE ADOPTIVE PARENTS ON

THE ISSUE OF VISITATION AND CONTACT WITH THE BIRTH PARENTS. THIS COULD

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MAKE THE PROCESS FOR ADOPTION OF CHILDREN FROM FOSTER CARE EVEN MORE

DIFFICULT. FOR THESE REASONS, I AM CONSTRAINED TO VETO THIS BILL." AND I

THINK THAT THAT REALLY DOES SAY AN AWFUL LOT.

THE SECOND THING I'D LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU IS FROM THE

NEW YORK PUBLIC WELFARE ASSOCIATION. AND THEY ALSO ARE IN STRONG

OPPOSITION TO THIS BILL. THEY SAY THAT THIS BILL WOULD PERMIT A PARENT

WHO HAS BEEN FOUND AFTER A FULL FAMILY COURT HEARING TO HAVE EITHER

ABANDONED, PERMANENTLY NEGLECTED, REPEATED OR SEVERELY ABUSED THE

CHILD, OR IS UNABLE TO PARENT DUE TO MENTAL ILLNESS OR INTELLECTUAL ABILITY

TO DEMAND CONTINUED CONTACT WITH THE CHILDREN POST-TERMINATION

PROCEEDING. THEY TALK ABOUT, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THAT IF THE COURT

AFTER THIS HEARING ORDERS SOME VISITS OR SOME CONTACT, THIS MEMO SAYS IF

THE INITIAL REQUEST FOR VISITATION OR CONTACT IS GRANTED, PARENTS MAY

PERPETUALLY FILE REQUESTS FOR MODIFICATION RESULTING IN YEARS OF

LITIGATION DURING WHICH THE CHILD WOULD SIMPLY LANGUISH WITH NO

STABILITY. BIRTH PARENTS AND THEIR ATTORNEYS WOULD HAVE NO INCENTIVE TO

SETTLE A TPR, TERMINATION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS WITH A SURRENDER AND

COULD LITIGATE THE TPR AND THEN LITIGATE THE VISITATION AND CONTACT

REQUEST.

LAST, I'D LIKE TO READ TO YOU A LITTLE BIT FROM A MEMO

THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED BY A GROUP CALLED - LET ME GET IT RIGHT -

THE ADOPTIVE AND FOSTER FAMILY COALITION. THIS REALLY STRUCK ME, AS

WELL. FINALLY, IT SAYS, THE COALITION IS TROUBLED BY THE IMPLICIT MESSAGE

OF THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION, THAT ADOPTIVE PARENTS ARE LITTLE MORE THAN

BABYSITTERS WHO PARK AND HOUSE A CHILD UNTIL THEIR 18TH BIRTHDAY.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PARENTS WHO ADOPT TRAUMATIZED, NEGLECTED CHILDREN FROM FOSTER CARE

DESERVE OUR STATE'S FULL SUPPORT. WHILE THE COALITION DOES NOT BELIEVE

THIS IS THE SPONSOR'S INTENTION, ADOPTIVE PARENTS DO NOT DESERVE THE

DISRESPECT THAT THIS BILL CONVEYS. REMEMBER, PLEASE, THAT ONCE A CHILD

IS ADOPTED, THE ADOPTIVE PARENTS ARE THE PARENTS OF THAT CHILD, AND THOSE

ADOPTIVE PARENTS CAN MAKE ARRANGEMENTS WITH BIRTH PARENTS AS THEY SEE

FIT FOR CONTINUED CONTACT. BUT FOR THIS BILL TO ALLOW FOR A HEARING

PROCESS TO ALLOW A JUDGE TO OVERRIDE AN ADOPTIVE PARENT'S DETERMINATION

ABOUT WHAT IS IN THEIR CHILD'S - THEIR CHILD'S - BEST INTEREST IS, IS I THINK,

REALLY SIGNIFICANTLY MISPLACED. AND IT REALLY LOOKS AT THE BIOLOGICAL

PARENTS AS THE VICTIMS WHEN, IN FACT, IT IS THESE CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN

NEGLECTED, TRAUMATIZED AND ABUSED AND LEFT WITHOUT PERMANENCY

SOMETIMES FOR YEARS, THEY ARE THE VICTIMS, IT IS THEIR BEST INTEREST THAT

MUST BE PRESERVED. AND IT'S FOR THOSE REASONS THAT I THINK THAT THIS BILL

IS A VERY, VERY BAD IDEA, THAT HAS BEEN VETOED TWICE, THAT HAS BEEN

OPPOSED IN THIS BODY WITH BIPARTISAN OPPOSITION SEVERAL YEARS, AND I

BELIEVE THAT THIS BILL SHOULD BE ALSO VOTED IN THE NEGATIVE STRONGLY AND

VETOED AGAIN BY THE GOVERNOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE OPPOSED TO THIS BILL. THOSE

WHO SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. RAMOS.

MR. RAMOS: MR. SPEAKER, THIS WILL BE A PARTY VOTE

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. IF YOU WANT TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE, YOU CAN DO SO

AT THEIR DESK.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THANK

GOD FOR OUR FOSTER PARENTS WHO ARE WILLING TO OPEN THEIR HEARTS AND

THEIR HOMES AND THEIR LIVES TO YOUNG CHILDREN WHO ARE SOMETIMES THE

MOST DIFFICULT AND CHALLENGING KIDS TO RAISE BECAUSE OF THE TRAUMA

THEY'VE GONE THROUGH. THANK GOD WE HAVE FAMILIES IN NEW YORK

STATE THAT HAVE THAT LEVEL OF COMPASSION. WE NEED TO RESPECT THAT. WE

DO NOT NEED TO PASS LEGISLATION IN THIS HOUSE THAT SUBJECTS THOSE

COMPASSIONATE, THOUGHTFUL, CARING PEOPLE TO THE POTENTIAL OF ENDLESS

LITIGATION AS THEY TRY TO RAISE AN ADOPTIVE CHILD THAT THEY'VE ACCEPTED

INTO THEIR HOUSEHOLD AS THEIR OWN. THANK GOD THEY'RE THERE, AND WE

SHOULD DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO SUPPORT THEM AND NOT SUBJECT THEM TO

THIS TYPE OF ENDLESS LITIGATION AND QUESTIONING OF THEIR PARENTAL

DECISIONS ON HOW BEST TO RAISE THEIR ADOPTIVE CHILD. AND FOR THAT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

REASON, I CANNOT SUPPORT THIS, AND I HOPE THAT MY COLLEAGUES RECOGNIZE

THE INCREDIBLE COMMITMENT THAT'S MADE BY THESE ADOPTIVE PARENTS AFTER

AN EXHAUSTED COURT PROCESS AND RESPECT THEIR RIGHTS AND THEIR NEED O

RAISE THEIR ADOPTIVE CHILD AS THEIR OWN. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. GOODELL IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. HEVESI TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.

MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

COMMEND THE SPONSOR, AND I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES

AND THE GOVERNOR. IT SEEMS THAT THIS IS THE ONE TIME WHERE THIS BODY

OR SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES IN THIS BODY DON'T BELIEVE IN JUDICIAL

DISCRETION. WE DON'T WANT THE JUDGE TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE

DECISION ABOUT THE BEST INTEREST OF THE KID? WHY NOT? WE BELIEVE IN

JUDICIAL DISCRETION ACROSS THE BOARD IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES, AND WE

BELIEVE IT HERE. WE ALSO BELIEVE IN THE REDEMPTION. SO WHILE I RESPECT

THE FOSTER PARENTS AND, BY THE WAY, WE IN THE ASSEMBLY MAJORITY FIGHT

CONSISTENTLY FOR MORE MONEY FOR FOSTER PARENTS, FOR MORE ASSISTANCE TO

THOSE PARENTS, BUT IT IS CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE ALLOW FOR THOSE

PARENTS TO HAVE THEIR PARENTAL RIGHTS TERMINATED. IF A JUDGE DECIDES THAT

CONTACT WITH THAT PARENT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD, WHY NOT?

HOW DOES THAT HURT THE ADOPTIVE PARENT?

THE ANSWER IS, WE BELIEVE IN JUDICIAL DISCRETION IN THIS

MATTER, AND WE SHOULD RESPECT THE COURTS AND THEIR DECISION-MAKING AS

OPPOSED TO SAYING THIS KID HAS ONLY EITHER THE CHOICE OF HIS ADOPTIVE --

HIS BIRTH PARENTS OR THE ADOPTIVE PARENTS. THE JUDGE MAY FIND OUT FOR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCE IS THAT THE PARENTS HAS TURNED THEIR LIFE

AROUND, AND THEY'RE NOW ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN A PRODUCTIVE WAY WITH

THEIR KID'S LIFE, WHY DON'T WE BELIEVE IN JUDICIAL DISCRETION NOW? I AM

HERE TO TELL YOU THAT I BELIEVE THAT THE SPONSOR IS CORRECT AND I AM A

LITTLE DISAPPOINTED IN THE GOVERNOR'S VETO. I THINK IT IS MISPLACED. I DO

RESPECT ALL OF OUR COLLEAGUES HERE, I KNOW SOME OF THEM HAVE GREAT

EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA, BUT I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE AND I WILL BE VOTING

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. HEVESI IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. JOYNER TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.

MS. JOYNER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WASN'T

PLANNING ON SPEAKING ON THIS BILL BECAUSE WE HAVE AT LENGTH DEBATED

THIS BILL OVER A COUPLE OF YEARS. I ALSO AGREE THAT THE GOVERNOR'S

DECISION ON THIS BILL HAS BEEN MISPLACED. I COULD SPEAK -- I'VE BEEN

HEARING PEOPLE SPEAKING FROM THEIR PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE, SPEAKING

ABOUT ADOPTIVE PARENTS, BUT THIS BILL TRULY JUST FOCUSES ON THE BEST

INTEREST OF THE CHILD, NOT THE ADOPTIVE PARENT, NOT THE BIOLOGICAL PARENT,

WHAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD. IN THESE CASES, WE ALREADY

HAVE TWO OUT OF THE FOUR DEPARTMENTS IN NEW YORK STATE THAT ALREADY

ALLOW THIS PROCESS TO HAPPEN. THE COURT OF APPEALS SAID FOR THE STATE

LEGISLATURE TO TAKE ACTION ON THIS, WHICH IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING,

BUT WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING FROM THEIR OWN PERSONAL

EXPERIENCE, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT A

FAMILY DOES NOT FIT A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL MODEL OR APPROACH. AND THAT'S

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

WHAT THIS BILL DOES. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN WHO KNEW WHO

THEIR BIOLOGICAL PARENT WAS. THESE ARE NOT CHILDREN THAT ARE ADOPTED

THAT HAD NO CONNECTION OR CONTACT WITH THEIR PREVIOUS BIOLOGICAL

PARENT, SO WE ARE ALLOWING COURTS AND FAMILIES TO CRAFT NEW FAMILY

STRUCTURES THAT BEST SUIT THEIR SITUATIONS. WE HAVE CHILDREN THAT ARE NOT

BEING ADOPTED BUT WHO KNOW WHO THEIR BIRTH PARENTS ARE, BUT LOSE THAT

RIGHT TO CONTACT IF THEIR BIOLOGICAL PARENT DECIDES TO GO TO COURT AND

--AND PROCEED WITH A TPR. THIS CREATES PARITY BECAUSE OTHERWISE,

WHAT IS HAPPENING IS THAT A LOT OF THESE BIOLOGICAL PARENTS ARE

SURRENDERING THEIR RIGHTS AND FOREGOING A CHILD BECAUSE THEY WANT TO

CONTINUE HAVE THAT CONTACT WITH THEIR CHILD. THIS BILL IS GOING TO CREATE

PARITY, THERE'S ALREADY STANDING WITHIN THE LAW THAT ALLOWS THIS TO

HAPPEN, FAMILIES ARE STILL STAYING TOGETHER, WE ARE HAVING BLENDED

FAMILIES, AND FAMILIES THAT LOOK TOTALLY DIFFERENT. SO I'M A HUGE

PROPONENT IN SUPPORT OF THIS BILL AND I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO CONTINUE

TO SUPPORT THIS BILL BECAUSE WE NEED TO GIVE FAMILIES THE OPPORTUNITY TO

SURVIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MS. JOYNER IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL HAS PASSED.

THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE S05591-A, RULES REPORT NO.

788, SENATOR COMRIE (COOK, PEOPLES-STOKES, HYNDMAN, DICKENS,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SIMON -- A5646A). AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION

TO THE COLLATERAL ESTOPPEL EFFECT OF ISSUES DECIDED BY CERTAIN ARBITRATORS.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS

BILL SIMPLY PROVIDES THAT A DECISION IN A NO-FAULT ARBITRATION EITHER BY

AN ARBITRATOR OR MASTER ARBITRATOR WILL NOT BE SUBJECT TO COLLATERAL

ESTOPPEL IN THE UNDERLYING SERIOUS INJURY RELATING TO THE PERSONAL INJURY

ACTION.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. LUNSFORD: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. LUNSFORD. FOR OUR

COLLEAGUES WHO MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH THE CONCEPT OF COLLATERAL

ESTOPPEL, WILL YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS?

MS. LUNSFORD: ABSOLUTELY. SO COLLATERAL

ESTOPPEL IS SIMPLY THE IDEA THAT YOU'RE PRECLUDED FROM RAISING AN ISSUE

IN A SUBSEQUENT MATTER THAT HAS BEEN GIVEN SOME SORT OF FINAL JUDGMENT

EITHER THROUGH A PLEA OR THROUGH A DECISION IN AN UNDERLYING MATTER.

THE MOST COMMON EXAMPLE MIGHT BE IF THERE'S A CRIMINAL AND A CIVIL

MATTER ARISING OUT OF THE SAME INCIDENT, IF THERE'S A CRIMINAL CONVICTION

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

YOU'RE PRECLUDED IN THE CIVIL ACTION FROM CLAIMING THAT YOU DID NOT

COMMIT THE UNDERLYING CRIME.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, FOR COLLATERAL ESTOPPEL TO

APPLY, AM I CORRECT IT HAS TO HAVE THE SAME ISSUES, THE PARTIES HAVE TO

HAVE FULL OPPORTUNITY TO FULLY ADDRESS ALL THE ISSUES, AND THERE HAS TO BE

A DECISION BY AN IMPARTIAL ARBITRATOR OR COURT, CORRECT?

MS. LUNSFORD: YES. AND THE ISSUES HAVE TO BE

MATERIALLY THE SAME.

MR. GOODELL: MATERIALLY THE SAME. AND WHAT IS

THE RATIONALE BEHIND COLLATERAL ESTOPPEL? WHY DO WE HAVE THAT

CONCEPT IN THE COURTS?

MS. LUNSFORD: I THINK TO SOME EXTENT IT'S TO

ELIMINATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET A SECOND BITE OF THE APPLE, TO MAKE THE

DETERMINATION FOR JUDICIAL EFFICIENCY AS WELL, IF PARTICULARLY A COMPLEX

ISSUE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DECIDED IN ONE VENUE TO GET AMPLE

OPPORTUNITY IN ANOTHER, I THINK PARTICULARLY IN THE CRIMINAL AND CIVIL

CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THE STANDARD IS HIGHER IN THE CRIMINAL MATTER.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, THIS BILL WOULD ELIMINATE

COLLATERAL ESTOPPEL IN THE CONTEXT OF AN INSURANCE CLAIM THAT MAY HAVE

BEEN FULLY LITIGATED AND INDEED MAY INVOLVE A COURT DECISION, CORRECT?

MS. LUNSFORD: POTENTIALLY.

MR. GOODELL: AND WHY IS IT THAT WE WOULD WANT

PARTIES TO BE ABLE TO GO TO COURT TWICE ON THE SAME ISSUES INVOLVING THE

SAME FACTS AND THE SAME PARTIES? WHY WOULD WE WANT TO IGNORE

COLLATERAL ESTOPPEL WHEN WE ALREADY HAVE A COURT DECISION THAT

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ADDRESSES IT AND MEETS ALL THE OTHER CRITERIA FOR COLLATERAL ESTOPPEL?

MS. LUNSFORD: WELL, IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE, WE'RE

NOT REALLY TALKING ABOUT COURT DECISION AS MUCH AS AN ARBITRATION.

WHEN YOU --

MR. GOODELL: IF I MAY INTERRUPT YOU, LOOK ON

PAGE 1, LINE 7, THAT SAYS, "OR IS COURT RENDERED," RIGHT?

MS. LUNSFORD: YES.

MR. GOODELL: SO LET'S JUST FOCUS ON THE COURT

RENDERED.

MS. LUNSFORD: SURE.

MR. GOODELL: WHY SHOULDN'T A COURT DECISION

INVOLVING THE SAME PARTIES, THE SAME ISSUES, HAVE BEEN FULLY LITIGATED

AND IN THIS CASE A COURT DECISION FOLLOWING AN ARBITRATION AND MAYBE

EVEN A MASTER ARBITRATION, WHY WOULD WE OPEN IT UP TO WHAT WOULD

APPEAR TO BE A FOURTH BITE AT THE APPLE; ARBITRATOR, MASTER ARBITRATOR,

COURT DECISION? WHY WOULD WE THROW ALL THAT OUT AND ALLOW THE

PARTIES TO RELITIGATE IT FROM SCRATCH?

MS. LUNSFORD: NO-FAULT IS A PARTICULARLY UNIQUE

CIRCUMSTANCE. WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH AN ADVERSE DECISION IN A

NO-FAULT DECISION, IT'S GENERALLY A BILL. IF MY INDEPENDENT MEDICAL

EXAMINER SAYS THAT THERE IS A NO CAUSAL NEXUS BETWEEN MY CAR ACCIDENT

AND MY ROTATOR CUFF TEAR, THE ONLY WAY TO APPEAL THAT DECISION IS

THROUGH THE ARBITRATION OF A BILL. AND THAT BILL COULD BE $100 FOR

PHYSICAL THERAPY. WHAT HAPPENS IN MANY CIRCUMSTANCES IS YOU

ACTUALLY HAVE THE DOCTOR WHO HAS THE ASSIGNMENT OF BENEFITS, BUNDLING

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BILLS TOGETHER, HANDING THEM OFF TO AN ATTORNEY, AND THAT ATTORNEY

WITHOUT THE CLAIMANT BEING INVOLVED AT ALL, THEN GOES AND NEGOTIATES A

DEAL TO GET THE BILLS PAID. THE STANDARD IS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT AND IN

MANY CASES YOU MAY HAVE A CLAIMANT THAT HAS THEIR RIGHTS IN THEIR

PERSONAL INJURY ACTION COMPLETELY TAKEN AWAY WITHOUT THEM EVEN

UNDERSTANDING WHAT'S HAPPENING BECAUSE THE DOCTOR WANTED TO BE PAID

THEIR $250.

SO HERE WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT A MERITORIOUS SERIOUS

INJURY CLAIM THAT A CLAIMANT MAY HAVE IN A PERSONAL INJURY ACTION FROM

BEING PRECLUDED BECAUSE OF WHAT'S EFFECTIVELY AN ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION

BY A DOCTOR.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, BUT JUST TO BE CLEAR, IF WE'RE

DEALING WITH A COURT DECISION, THAT COURT DECISION WOULD ONLY BE

RENDERED AFTER THERE IS AN ORIGINAL ARBITRATION, THEN A MASTER ARBITRATOR

REVIEWED IT AND APPROVED IT, THEN IT GOES TO COURT AND BY STATUTE, THAT

COURT DECISION MUST INVOLVE A DISPUTE EXCEEDING 5,000, CORRECT?

MS. LUNSFORD: SO, THERE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE

IF A CLAIM EXCEEDS $5,000 THE COURT IS THE DE NOVO DECISION-MAKER. SO

WITH THAT IT MAY ACTUALLY BE THE FIRST LEVEL DECISION THAT'S MADE.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO IN THAT CASE, YOU NOT

ONLY HAVE TWO ARBITRATIONS, YOU HAVE A DE NOVO COURT DECISION AND FOR

OUR COLLEAGUES THAT DON'T SPECIALIZE IN LATIN, WE USE LATIN BY THE WAY

IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION WHENEVER WE'RE CHARGING YOU MORE BUT TODAY

IT'S FREE, DE NOVO MEANS NEW.

MS. LUNSFORD: YES.

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MR. GOODELL: RIGHT?

MS. LUNSFORD: YES.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THOSE

CLARIFYING COMMENTS.

SIR, ON THE BILL.

MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON THE BILL.

MR. GOODELL: WE HAVE COLLATERAL ESTOPPEL AND

IT'S WELL-DEFINED BY THE COURT SYSTEM TO APPLY ONLY WHERE YOU HAVE THE

SAME ISSUES, THE SAME PARTIES, FULL AND FAIR OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR ALL THE

FACTS AND WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY REPEATEDLY LITIGATE AN ISSUE

OVER AND OVER AND OVER. AND HERE'S WHAT'S IRONIC. UNDER THE

INSURANCE LAW YOU ALREADY GET THREE BITES AT THE APPLE, ALREADY. YOU

START OUT WITH ARBITRATION. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT DECISION YOU CAN TAKE IT

TO A MASTER ARBITRATOR. AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT, YOU CAN TAKE IT TO AN

INDEPENDENT COURT IF THE AMOUNT EXCEEDS 5,000, AND THAT INDEPENDENT

COURT HAS A DE NOVO REVIEW, MEANING FROM SCRATCH. WHAT THIS BILL SAYS

IS ON ALL THOSE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN DECIDED BY A COURT, YOU CAN START

OUT AND DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN IN COURT. AND NOTHING THAT WAS DECIDED

AFTER THOSE EXHAUSTIVE HEARINGS ARE BINDING. IT JUST DOESN'T REALLY MAKE

SENSE, UNLESS OF COURSE YOU'RE A LITIGATOR, WHICH IS WHY THIS IS

SUPPORTED BY THE TRIAL LAWYERS, SURPRISE. BUT AS NOTED BY THE NEW

YORK INSURANCE ASSOCIATION, THIS LEGISLATION WILL RESULT IN DRAMATICALLY

EXPANDED CIVIL LITIGATION ALL ACROSS NEW YORK TOGETHER WITH

SKYROCKETING INSURANCE RATES THAT REFLECT THE FACT THAT YOU'LL NOW HAVE

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NOT THREE, BUT FOUR OPPORTUNITIES TO SUE YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY.

LIKEWISE, THE AMERICAN TRANSIT INSURANCE COMPANY SAYS THIS WILL

HAVE A DRAMATIC IMPACT ON YOUR INSURANCE.

NOW, I AM VERY LUCKY THAT I HAVE A PHENOMENAL

INSURANCE AGENT WHO QUICKLY SETTLED MY CLAIM WHEN MY CAR WAS STOLEN

LAST YEAR, BUT IT'S STILL PAINFUL EVERY TIME I WRITE THE CHECK TO PAY THAT,

EVEN THOUGH IT'S A GREAT PRICE. WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE HIGHER INSURANCE

RATES IN NEW YORK AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL WILL DO. FOR THAT REASON I

CAN'T SUPPORT IT.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR MY

COLLEAGUE FOR THOSE COMMENTS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LUNSFORD.

MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

MS. LUNSFORD: JUST IN A BRIEF RESPONSE. I THINK,

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE PAY OUR NO-FAULT PREMIUMS, WHICH ALL OF US PAY.

WE'RE REQUIRED TO CARRY NO-FAULT INSURANCE. WE ARE EXPECTING TO

RECEIVE A CERTAIN BENEFIT AND I DON'T THINK IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE THAT

ANYONE IS GETTING ANYTHING MORE THAN THEY'VE ALREADY PAID FOR. THE

CIRCUMSTANCE WE'RE DEALING WITH HERE IS VERY UNLIKELY TO BE ONE WHERE

SOMEONE HAS BEEN TO COURT MANY TIMES. IN FACT, IT'S GOING TO BE A

CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THAT CLAIMANT WAS NEVER HURT AT ALL. WHERE THAT

CLAIMANT DID NOT GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THEIR BILL DETERMINED, AND

IN MANY CASES THE COLLATERAL ESTOPPEL ISSUE, WHICH THANK YOU TO ALL OF

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE BEARING WITH THIS VERY TECHNICAL, VERY LENGTHY

ARGUMENT, IS ONE THAT PREVENTS THEM FROM ARBITRATING THEIR BILLS TO

BEGIN WITH. SO PEOPLE ARE PAYING OUT-OF-POCKET ON BILLS THAT WOULD

OTHERWISE BE RECOUPABLE THROUGH THEIR NO-FAULT PROVIDER. WE'RE

PAYING FOR SOMETHING WE'RE NOT RECEIVING IN MANY CIRCUMSTANCES. AS

SOMEONE WHO HAS BOTH BEEN IN NO-FAULT ARBITRATIONS AND IN, YOU

KNOW, CONFERENCE ROOMS AND HOTELS ALL ACROSS UPSTATE NEW YORK AND

ALSO IN COURT DEALING WITH MOTOR VEHICLE CLAIMS, I CAN TELL YOU THE

CHILLING EFFECT THIS HAS ON SEEKING REIMBURSEMENT FOR NO-FAULT

ARBITRATION CLAIMS.

SO I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND

THANK HER VERY MUCH FOR BRINGING THIS, I THINK IT WILL PROVIDE CLAIMANTS

THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEEK COMPENSATION FOR ACTIONS ON INJURIES THAT WERE

NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, AND FOR WHICH THEY CAN SEEK COMPENSATION DUE

TO THE NEGLIGENCE OF OTHERS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND I WILL BE

VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS. CERTAINLY THOSE WHO WISH TO

BE AN EXCEPTION CAN VOTE HERE ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

OF LEGISLATION. THERE MAY BE A FEW WHO WOULD LIKE TO BE AN EXCEPTION,

THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO CAST THEIR VOTE AT THE SEAT. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. IF WE COULD NOW BRING OUR ATTENTION TO RULES REPORT NO. 225

BY MR. RAMOS, FOLLOWED BY RULES REPORT NO. 580 BY MR. MAGNARELLI.

FOLLOWING THAT WOULD BE RULES REPORT NO. 568 BY MS. WALKER. IN THAT

ORDER, MR. SPEAKER. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

PAGE 6, RULES REPORT NO. 225, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04487, RULES REPORT

NO. 225, RAMOS, WEPRIN, TAYLOR, L. ROSENTHAL, THIELE, COLTON, REYES,

CARROLL, JACOBSON, GLICK, SAYEGH, SIMON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL

SERVICE LAW AND RULES, IN RELATION TO TIME LIMITATIONS FOR FILING CLAIMS

FOR CERTAIN INJURIES.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

RAMOS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

AND MR. RAMOS, AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, SIR.

MR. RAMOS: CERTAINLY, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL WILL

REQUIRE THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION TO COLLECT DATA AND PUBLISH

ANNUAL REPORTS ON THE ETHNICITY AND RACE OF PEOPLE WHO TAKE CIVIL

SERVICE EXAMINATIONS IN NEW YORK STATE. THIS LEGISLATION WILL ALLOW

FOR THE COLLECTION AND PUBLICATION OF EMPIRICAL DATA IN ORDER TO ASSESS

WHETHER ATTEMPTS BY THE LEGISLATURE AND CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION TO

MAKE CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATIONS MORE ACCESSIBLE TO MINORITY

COMMUNITIES IF THAT HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE OR NOT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RAMOS, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MR. RAMOS: I YIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. RAMOS. I NOTE

FROM THE MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF THIS LEGISLATION THAT THERE WAS A

CONCERNED RAISED ABOUT DECREASING NUMBER OF HISPANIC AND BLACK

EMPLOYEES IN THE STATE CIVIL SERVICE, BUT THE REPORT WAS DONE IN 2005.

DO WE HAVE ANY MORE RECENT REPORTS OTHER THAN THE ONE THAT WAS DONE

18 YEARS AGO IN 2005?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. RAMOS: NO, WE DON'T. AND THAT PRETTY MUCH

IS ONE OF THE JUSTIFICATION FOR NEEDING THIS EMPIRICAL DATA.

MR. GOODELL: NOW I SEE THAT THIS HAS BEEN

PENDING IN FRONT OF THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER FOR THE

LAST 18 YEARS. ANY IDEA WHY IT HASN'T BEEN CONSIDERED YET?

MR. RAMOS: WELL, I MEAN WE TRY TO PUSH IT EVERY

YEAR AND AS -- AS HAPPENED WITH MUCH LEGISLATION, IT BECOMES RIPE AT

SOME POINT AND THIS IS THE YEAR.

MR. GOODELL: THIS REPORT ONLY REQUIRES DATA ON

ETHNICITY AND RACE.

MR. RAMOS: YES.

MR. GOODELL: BUT WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF

LEGISLATIVE INITIATIVES THAT FOCUS ON OTHER THINGS AS WELL. LGBTQ+

STATUS, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER,

IDENTITY. A NUMBER OF OTHER CRITERIA. WHY ARE WE ONLY DEALING WITH

ETHNICITY AND RACE AND NOT ALL OF THOSE OTHER CATEGORIES THAT WE

PERIODICALLY PASS LEGISLATION ON?

MR. RAMOS: WELL, THE -- THIS DEALS WITH THE ISSUE

OF RACE. AND CERTAINLY ANY LEGISLATION THAT DEALS WITH LGBT OR OTHER

REPORTING ON -- ON BEHALF OF CIVIL SERVICE OR ANY DEPARTMENT OF THE

STATE IS -- IS LAUDABLE. THIS PARTICULAR ONE DEALS WITH THE ISSUE OF RACE

AND ETHNICITY.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. ARE THERE OTHER REPORTS THAT

ARE CURRENTLY ISSUED BY THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION THAT RELATE TO

OTHER DEMOGRAPHICS?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. RAMOS: NOT ON AN ANNUAL BASIS. THIS WOULD

BE THE FIRST ONE THAT REQUIRES ANNUAL REPORTING. AND THE REASON FOR THIS

DATA IS TO -- TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY WHERE THE PROBLEMS ARE. IF -- IF WE

AGREE THAT DIVERSITY IS A GOOD THING FOR THE STATE WORKFORCE, IT TAKES

PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY, GIVES THEM JOBS, PUTS THEM IN A CAREER PATH. IT

HELPS THE PUBLIC TO HAVE DIVERSE PEOPLE SERVING THEM. THERE'S ALL SORTS

OF -- OF BENEFITS TO IT AND BY HAVING THIS -- BY HAVING THIS REPORTING WE

CAN SEE WHERE WE'RE LACKING AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. RAMOS.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.).

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 10, RULES REPORT NO. 580, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S05775, RULES REPORT NO.

580, SENATOR KENNEDY (MAGNARELLI, WALLACE, CONRAD, STIRPE,

MCMAHON -- A05639). AN ACT TO AMEND THE RAILROAD LAW, IN RELATION

TO REQUIRING CERTAIN TRAINS AND LOCOMOTIVES TO HAVE A CREW SIZE OF NOT

LESS THAN TWO PERSONS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MAGNARELLI, A

EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED, SIR.

MR. MAGNARELLI: ABSOLUTELY. THIS BILL WOULD

PROHIBIT THE OPERATION OF FREIGHT TRAINS OR FREIGHT LOCOMOTIVES BY

RAILROAD CARRIERS HAVING ANNUAL OPERATING REVENUES OF MORE THAN $20

MILLION UNLESS THE TRAIN OR LOCOMOTIVE HAS ON BOARD A MINIMUM

TWO-PERSON CREW.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL?

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MAGNARELLI, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MAGNARELLI

YIELDS, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. MAGNARELLI. I NOTE

THAT IN 2019 THE FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION CONCLUDED AFTER

STUDYING THIS ISSUE THAT THERE WAS QUOTE, "INSUFFICIENT EMPIRICAL DATA TO

PROVE THAT TRAINS OPERATING WITH AT LEAST TWO PEOPLE WERE SAFER THAN

ONE PERSON CREWS." ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OTHER EMPIRICAL ANALYSES

THAT HAVE BEEN DONE SINCE 2019 OTHER THAN THE ONE THAT WAS DONE BY

THE FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION?

MR. MAGNARELLI: NO, BUT I DO KNOW THAT THERE

HAVE BEEN CASES ON THAT MATTER THAT THE FRA IN 2016 FIRST AUTHORIZED

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE NATIONAL MINIMUM TWO-PERSON CREW. THEN IN 2019, AS YOU SAY,

THEY REVERSED THEMSELVES. THEN IN 2020, A COURT BASICALLY UPHELD THAT,

AND, BUT THEN REFERRED TO A NINTH CIRCUIT CASE IN -- THAT WAS BEING HELD

IN -- WAS -- WAS TAKING PLACE IN WASHINGTON, SEATTLE, WASHINGTON.

AND SAID THAT IF THAT CASE -- IT SAID THE CASE THAT IF THE NINTH CIRCUIT

HOLDS, THAT THE FRA WITHDRAW ORDER IS INVALID, THEN THE ILLINOIS'

COMMERCE COMMISSION MAY MOVE TO VACATE THE ORIGINAL JUDGMENT.

AND IN FACT, THE U.S. COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT IN SEATTLE,

WASHINGTON DID ISSUE A RULING VACATING THE FRA'S 2019 ORDER. THE

COURT RULED THAT THE FRA'S ORDER WAS ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS, THAT

MEANS SOMETHING TO ME, AND THE FRA'S ORDER DID NOT IMPLICITLY

PREEMPT STATE SAFETY RULES. SO THAT LEADS US TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

THERE IS SOME CONFLICT BETWEEN THE FRA AND ITS

DIFFERENT OPINIONS OVER THE YEARS AND ALSO WITHIN THE COURTS.

MR. GOODELL: NOW I NOTE THAT IN JULY OF 2022 THE

FEDERAL RAILROAD COMMISSION INITIATED YET ANOTHER REVIEW OF THIS

ISSUE. WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THAT MOST RECENT REVIEW?

MR. MAGNARELLI: WE'RE NOT AWARE OF THAT.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, I

UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S BEEN LITIGATION OVER THE FEDERAL PREEMPTION

ISSUE WITH THE NINTH CIRCUIT RULING THAT THE FEDERAL RAILROAD

ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T CLEARLY PREEMPT IT. BUT AM I ALSO CLEAR, THOUGH,

THAT THERE HAVE BEEN NO OTHER BROAD ANALYSES OVER WHETHER OR NOT THIS

ACTUALLY RESULTS IN MORE SAFE CREWS OTHER THAN A FEW INSTANCES THAT YOU

REFERENCED?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. MAGNARELLI: WELL, THE ONLY THING I COULD

SAY IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN SEEING OVER THE PAST YEAR, WHAT HAPPENED IN

OHIO. I THINK THERE IS REASON TO THINK THAT A TWO-PERSON CREW MAY BE

OF SOME ADVANTAGE TO THE FREIGHT TRAINS THAT ARE CROSSING OUR STATES AND

THAT'S WHY WE'RE BRINGING THIS BILL BACK AGAIN, OKAY?

MR. GOODELL: IS THERE ANY INDICATION THAT THE

DERAILMENT THAT OCCURRED IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT FREIGHT TRAIN IN OHIO

WOULD'VE BEEN PREVENTED IF THEY HAD TWO PEOPLE IN THE CAB?

MR. MAGNARELLI: I DON'T KNOW.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE.

MR. MAGNARELLI: I'M JUST SAYING IT'S A

REASONABLE THING TO SUGGEST THAT IT MIGHT'VE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. I SEE THE GOVERNOR

VETOED THIS LAST YEAR, SITING CONCERNS WITH PREEMPTION. HAS THERE BEEN

ANY CHANGE IN THE LANGUAGE OF THIS BILL COMPARED TO LAST YEAR'S?

MR. MAGNARELLI: THERE'S NO CHANGE IN THE

LANGUAGE.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

MAGNARELLI.

MR. MAGNARELLI: THANK YOU.

MR. GOODELL: SIR, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.

GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THERE'S TWO CONCERNS THAT HAVE

BEEN RAISED IN THE PAST. THE FIRST ONE IS A FEDERAL PREEMPTION ISSUE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

AND AS MY COLLEAGUE NOTED, THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT'S BEING LITIGATED EVEN

NOW. AND IT WAS SITED BY THE GOVERNOR IN VETOING THIS. THE SECOND IS

WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S ACTUALLY ANY DATA THAT SUPPORTS THE NEED TO

DOUBLE THE CREW SIZE ON INTERSTATE RAILROADS. WE HAVE SEEN OF COURSE

RAILROAD ACCIDENTS THAT HAS HAPPENED WITH THE DERAILMENT IN OHIO, BUT

AS FAR AS I'VE BEEN ABLE TO TELL THERE'S BEEN NO CONNECTION BETWEEN

HAVING TWO PEOPLE IN A CAB, WHETHER THAT WOULD IN ANY CONCEIVABLE

WAY IMPACT THE DERAILMENT OF A CAR THAT'S A HALF-MILE AWAY IN THE

MIDDLE OF A TRAIN. THERE HAVE BEEN SUBSTANTIAL TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES

OVER THE YEARS, WHICH HAVE MADE A SINGLE PERSON CREW SAFE INCLUDED --

INCLUDING AUTOMATED CONTROL SYSTEMS SO THAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS TO

THE OPERATOR OF THE TRAIN IT AUTOMATICALLY STOPS. THEY HAVE ALSO

AUTOMATED SPEED CONTROLS IN CERTAIN AREAS, ALL OF WHICH MAKE IT LESS

EXPENSIVE AND MORE EFFICIENT FOR RAIL TRANSPORT.

SO BEFORE THIS LEGISLATURE GETS INVOLVED IN CHANGING

THE RULES FOR INTERSTATE RAIL TRANSPORTATION AND DOUBLING THE COST AND

DICTATING STAFFING LEVELS, I THINK WE SHOULD, AS A MATTER OF BOTH POLICY

AND LAW, DEFER TO THE EXPERTISE OF THE FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION,

WHICH UNDER FEDERAL LAW HAS EXCLUSIVE JURISDICTION. AND FOR THAT

REASON, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS. THANK YOU, SIR. AND THANK YOU

TO MY COLLEAGUE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

DAY.

134

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT ARE

CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED TO VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD

DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO VOTE AT THEIR SEATS.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 10, RULES REPORT NO. 568, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. 00587, RULES REPORT NO.

568, SENATOR COMRIE (WALKER, BRONSON, CARROLL, COLTON, COOK,

DICKENS, GLICK, HUNTER, HYNDMAN, JEAN-PIERRE, LUPARDO, PAULIN,

PRETLOW, L. ROSENTHAL, SIMON, STECK, WEPRIN, ZEBROWSKI, ZINERMAN,

MAMDANI -- A00568). AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

TO MANDATORY TRAINING CURRICULUM FOR POLL WORKERS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MS. WALKER.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AND

THANK YOU, MR. GOODELL. THIS LAW AMENDS THE ELECTION LAW -- SORRY,

THIS BILL AMENDS THE ELECTION LAW TO REQUIRE THE STATE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS TO ESTABLISH A TRAINING INSTITUTE TO DEVELOP A CURRICULUM FOR

CERTIFIED POLL WORKER TRAINING AND TRAIN THE TRAINER PROGRAMS. THE

CURRICULUM SHALL INCLUDE CURRICULUM LENDING TO A DIVERSE ELECTORATE,

PROFESSIONAL DELIVERY OF SERVICES, PROVIDING ASSISTANCE TO VOTERS WITH

DISABILITIES AND LIMITED ENGLISH PROFICIENCY, USE OF ALL VOTING SYSTEMS

AND SHALL UTILIZE INDUSTRY-PROVEN TRAINING TECHNIQUES. COUNTY BOARDS

SHALL ENROLL AT LEAST TWO TRAINERS IN THE PROGRAM TO BECOME AND

MAINTAIN CERTIFIED POLL WORKER INSTRUCTORS AND THAT STATUS WILL BE

REQUIRED AND ADEQUATE FOR THE TRAINERS TO MEET THE NEEDS OF OUR

COUNTIES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NORRIS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU. IS THIS GOING TO BE A

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

BRAND-NEW PROGRAM CREATED AT THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS OR DOES IT

CURRENTLY EXIST?

MS. WALKER: WELL, THERE IS ALREADY EXTENSIVE

SUPPORT AND TRAINING THAT THE BOARD OF ELECTION PROVIDES. HOWEVER,

THIS PROVIDES A CERTAIN LEVEL OF PROFESSIONALISM TO THAT TRAINING AS WELL

AS A CERTAIN LEVEL OF CONTINUITY SO THAT NO MATTER WHERE YOU'RE GOING

THERE WILL BE POLL WORKERS WHO HAVE UNDERGONE THE SAME LEVEL OF

TRAINING THROUGHOUT THE STATE SO THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GO TO A POLL

SITE IN MY DISTRICT IN THE 55TH AND THERE WILL BE MET WITH THE SAME LEVEL

OF PROFESSIONALISM, SERVICE AND EFFICIENCY AS THEY CAN BE MET IN YOUR

DISTRICT, SIR.

MR. NORRIS: HAVE YOU HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE

BOARD OF ELECTIONS IF THEY'RE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THIS PROGRAM?

MS. WALKER: WE BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO

MAINTAIN THIS PROGRAM, YES.

MR. NORRIS: AND DO YOU KNOW IF THERE'S ANY

FUNDING WITHIN THE STATE BUDGET TO -- FOR THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS

TO PROVIDE THIS PROGRAM?

MS. WALKER: WELL, BASED ON THE FACT THAT THERE'S

ALREADY A CERTAIN LEVEL OF TRAINING AND SUPPORT THAT THE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS ALREADY PROVIDES, BASED ON RESOURCES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN

PROVIDED MANY YEARS IN OUR STATE BUDGET, THAT THERE WILL BE LITTLE TO NO

ADDITIONAL COSTS. THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS WILL CONDUCT TRAINING

SESSIONS WITH THEIR EXISTING STAFF. THE LOCAL BOARDS ALREADY HAVE

PEOPLE TO CONDUCT POLL WORKER TRAINING AND THEY WILL NOW HAVE TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ATTEND TRAINING BY THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, BUT THIS WOULD NOT

REQUIRE ADDITIONAL STAFF AT LOCAL BOARD OF ELECTIONS. POLL WORKER

TRAINING IS ALREADY REQUIRED IN STATUTE, AND ALSO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF

ELECTION LAW BILLS THAT WE KNOW AND ADDITIONAL COST-SAVINGS. AND SO

AS WE ARE SAVING ON THE ONE END, WE ARE PROVIDING MORE OPPORTUNITIES

FOR THIS LEVEL OF TRAINING IN THIS (INAUDIBLE).

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. AND AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, I SEE IN

THE BILL THAT THE COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS WOULD REQUIRE TO SEND AT

LEAST TWO PEOPLE EVERY YEAR TO THE INSTITUTE FOR TRAINING. IS THERE ANY

FUNDING FOR THE COUNTY BOARDS FOR THAT?

MS. WALKER: THERE WILL BE NO ADDITIONAL

RESOURCES ACCORDING -- IN THIS BILL --

MR. NORRIS: OKAY.

MS. WALKER: -- FOR THAT. HOWEVER, AS YOU KNOW,

EVERY YEAR WE CONDUCT OUR BUDGET DELIBERATIONS AND PERHAPS THIS IS

SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DISCUSS DURING OUR BUDGETARY CONVERSATIONS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR, FOR

ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MR. NORRIS.

MR. NORRIS: ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU KNOW,

AS A FORMER ELECTIONS COMMISSIONER, I DO BELIEVE IN THE IMPORTANCE OF

MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE TRAINING FOR OUR ELECTION INSPECTORS AND WE

CURRENTLY HAVE THAT MANDATED IN THE STATUTE. I DO HAVE CONCERNS,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

HOWEVER, THAT BY CREATING THIS BRAND-NEW INSTITUTE WITH ADDITIONAL

COSTS AND BURDENS ON THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS AND EVEN ON OUR

LOCAL COUNTY TAXPAYERS TO SEND INDIVIDUALS TO THIS SPECIAL INSTITUTE

WITHOUT KNOWING THAT THE FUNDING IS ACTUALLY IN PLACE IN THE BUDGET HAS

CONCERNS OF MINE ON THAT ASPECT. AND FOR THAT REASON I WILL BE

OPPOSING THIS MEASURE THIS YEAR, BUT HOPEFULLY MAYBE NEXT YEAR IN THE

BUDGET WE CAN TALK ABOUT FUNDING THIS INSTITUTE PROPERLY. THANK YOU

VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR.

NORRIS.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. I HAD A QUICK

QUESTION IF I MAY, TO THE SPONSOR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: I WILL YIELD, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. WALKER. MANY OF

US ATTORNEYS, ACCOUNTANTS, DOCTORS TAKE CONTINUING EDUCATION COURSES.

AS AN ATTORNEY WE'RE REQUIRED TO TAKE 12 HOURS, I THINK EVERY YEAR.

THOSE ARE TYPICALLY DONE ON LINE. IS THERE ANY REASON WHY THIS TRAINING

HAS TO BE DONE IN PERSON?

MS. WALKER: WELL, MR. GOODELL, I WOULD LIKE TO --

I JUST SAW THAT, DIRECT YOU TO PAGE 1 OF THE BILL, ON LINE NUMBER 13 --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTUALLY BEGINNING AT LINE NUMBER 12.

MR. GOODELL: I APOLOGIZE. I --

MS. WALKER: ACTUALLY, WE CAN GO UP TO LINE

NUMBER 8. SUCH INSTRUCTION MAY BE GIVEN IN PERSON OR ONLINE AT

VARIOUS TIMES THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

MR. GOODELL: AND IS THE ONLINE AT THE OPTION OF

THE COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS OR AT THE OPTION OF THE STATE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS?

MS. WALKER: THE OPTION WILL -- CAN BE ELECTED.

I'M NOT SURE IF WE ACTUALLY WENT SO FAR AS TO DETERMINE THE

ADMINISTRATION OF THE LAW, PERHAPS THIS COULD BE UP TO THE BOARD OF

ELECTION, BUT THERE'S NOTHING PROHIBITING THE LOCAL BOARD OF ELECTIONS

OR THE INDIVIDUALS WHO THEY WILL BE SENDING TO BE CERTIFIED FROM

ELECTING TO UTILIZE THE ONLINE OPTION.

MR. GOODELL: LET ME BE -- I APOLOGIZE. MY

QUESTION WASN'T VERY ARTFUL. DOES THIS REQUIRE THE STATE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS TO MAKE THIS TRAINING AVAILABLE ON LINE?

MS. WALKER: WELL, IT DOES INDICATE THAT EACH

BOARD OF ELECTIONS SHALL AT LEAST ONCE EVERY YEAR CONDUCT A MANDATORY

SCHOOL FOR THE INSTRUCTION OF CERTAIN ELECTION INSPECTORS, POLL WORKERS,

POLL CLERKS AND ELECTION COORDINATORS. SUCH INSTRUCTION MAY BE GIVEN

IN PERSON OR ON LINE.

MR. GOODELL: I UNDERSTAND. MY QUESTION PERHAPS

I WASN'T CLEAR IS, DOES THIS --

MS. WALKER: WHAT IT MAY MEAN?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. GOODELL: DOES THIS -- DOES THIS REQUIRE THE

STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS TO PROVIDE THIS TRAINING ONLINE?

MS. WALKER: YES. IT'S THE STATE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS WHO IS PROVIDING THE TRAINING.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU.

MS. WALKER: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NORRIS FOR A

SECOND 15.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD

LIKE TO JUST FOLLOW UP WITH THAT QUESTION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AND YOU ARE ASKING

MS. WALKER TO YIELD.

MR. NORRIS: YES. I WILL BE --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: BECAUSE THERE WAS AN

INTERRUPTION. MS. WALKER HAS THE RIGHT TO YIELD OR NOT.

MS. WALKER, WILL YOU YIELD?

MS. WALKER: I WILL YIELD; HOWEVER, I DID SEE THERE

WAS LIKE SOME DOUBLE EFFORT RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS THAT WAS GOING ON

AND SO I DON'T KNOW WHO I'M YIELDING TO AT THIS POINT BUT --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I THINK YOU'RE GOING

TO YIELD TO MR. NORRIS WHO CONFERRED WITH LEARNED COUNSEL MR.

GOODELL. HOW ABOUT THAT? PROCEED.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. WOULD YOU MIND YIELDING?

MS. WALKER: I DO NOT MIND.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. I THINK FOR CLARIFICATION

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PURPOSES, ELECTION INSPECTORS, THE ONES WHO ARE ACTUALLY AT THE POLLING

SITE, THEY CAN HAVE THEIR ANNUAL INSTRUCTION BOTH IN PERSON OR ONLINE;

WOULD THAT BE CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: CORRECT.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO NOW THE TRAINERS WHO

ACTUALLY WILL TRAIN THOSE INDIVIDUALS, TRAIN THE ELECTION INSPECTORS, DO

THEY HAVE TO ATTEND THE ACTUAL INSTITUTE OR CAN THEY DO THAT BY AN OPTION

OF REMOTE, THE ACTUAL TRAIN -- GOING TO THE INSTITUTE?

MS. WALKER: OKAY. SO I'LL ANSWER THAT QUESTION

IN TWO PARTS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU.

MS. WALKER: WHOMEVER THE LOCAL BOARD OF

ELECTIONS CHOOSES TO BE THE TRAINED, THE TRAINER, REPRESENTATIVE, IF YOU

WILL, WHETHER IF THAT PERSON IS ALREADY A CLERK OR HAS SOME OTHER, YOU

KNOW, HAS SOME OTHER ROLE IS UP TO THE LOCAL BOARD. NOW THE TRAINING

PORTION OF THE BILL, WHICH WE ARE AMENDING, ALREADY PROVIDES THAT

TRAINING CAN BE DONE EITHER ONLINE OR IN PERSON. SO THE CHANGES THAT

WE'VE MADE WHICH CREATES THIS TRAINED TO TRAINER INSTITUTE, DOES NOT

PROHIBIT AN ONLINE OPTION FOR THE TRAINED, THE TRAINER INSTITUTE.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY.

MS. WALKER: AND SO WE DID NOT SPECIFY TO THE

STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS HOW TO ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM SORT OF ON ITS

OWN DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, BUT WE ARE ALIGN ON THE EXPERTISE OF THE -- OF THE

FOLK WHO ARE -- WHO ARE VERY CAPABLE OF HANDLING THIS IN ORDER TO

PROVIDE THIS ONLINE OPTION WHICH MAY BE CHOSEN AS AN OPTION OF THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

TRAINED, THE TRAINER DESIGNEE.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO IT SAYS SHALL ESTABLISH AND

HOST AN EDUCATION TRAINING INSTITUTE THAT COULD INCLUDE -- HOSTING WOULD

BE POTENTIALLY AN ONLINE FOR THE TRAINER OF -- OF THE ELECTION WORKERS IF

THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS CHOSE TO DO THAT BY REGULATION.

MS. WALKER: CORRECT.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I HAVE NO

FURTHER QUESTIONS.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR.

NORRIS.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. NORRIS TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD

LIKE TO JUST TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SAY I REVERSE MY DECISION AFTER

FURTHER CLARIFICATION WITH MR. GOODELL AND WITH THE SPONSOR THAT NOW

THIS OPTION OF TRAINING THE TRAINER WOULD ACTUALLY POTENTIALLY BE ABLE TO

BE DONE ONLINE AS AN OPTION. I STILL HAVE CONCERNS REGARDING THE COST

AND THE BURDENS ON THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS; HOWEVER, I'M HOPEFUL

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH THIS IN THE STATE BUDGET AND THEREFORE, I WILL BE

VOTING YES ON THIS BILL AFTER FURTHER CONSIDERATION AND I ENCOURAGE MY

COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NORRIS IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE AND A PROFILE IN COURAGE.

MR. CHANG TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. CHANG: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AND THANK

YOU CHAIRMAN WALKER, I TRULY SUPPORT THIS BILL.

BEFORE I BECAME ASSEMBLYMAN, FOR OVER 30 YEARS I

WAS A POLL WORKER COORDINATOR FOR OVER 30 YEARS, PLUS A CERTIFIED

TRAINER. AND IT'S A PERISHABLE SKILL-SET IF YOU DON'T DO THIS ALL THE TIME

AND MOST OF THE TRAINERS AND POLL WORKERS ARE PART-TIMERS, SO THEY DON'T

DO THIS FOR A LIVING. AND -- AND DEFINITELY A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE IS

IMPORTANT BECAUSE THIS TYPE OF SKILL-SET (INAUDIBLE). RULES AND

REGULATIONS HAVE CHANGED. EVERY TIME THERE'S A POLL -- EVERY TIME

THERE'S AN ELECTION THERE'S ALWAYS CHANGE IN PROCEDURES. AND IF YOU

GIVE OUT WRONG INFORMATION TO POLL WORKERS, IT TRICKLES DOWN TO BAD

INFORMATION. YES, I AGREE WITH IT. I AGREE WITH YOU. IT COULD BE EITHER

ONLINE OR BRICK AND MORTAR IN PERSON BUT BRICK AND MORTAR AND IN

PERSON IS A -- IS A FAR BETTER WAY TO LEARN THINGS THAN -- THAN ON LINE.

BUT I HOPE NEXT YEAR BUDGET, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT

INCREASING THE BUDGET ITSELF AND ALSO QUALITY OF PAY FOR THE POLL WORKERS

BECAUSE THEY REALLY NEED IT.

AND SO IN THIS -- IN THIS BILL I WOULD SUPPORT THIS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. CHANG IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU SIR.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. IF WE COULD NOW CALL OUR ATTENTION TO RULES REPORT NO. 817

BY MR. ZEBROWSKI.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PAGE 15, RULES

REPORT NO. 817, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S04859-A, RULES REPORT

NO. 817, SENATOR KRUEGER (ZEBROWSKI, L. ROSENTHAL, SIMON, COLTON,

REYES, SIMONE, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS, KELLES, MAMDANI, ARDILA, STECK,

SHRESTHA, BURDICK, SHIMSKY, GALLAGHER, STIRPE, RAMOS, OTIS, FAHY,

THIELE, CLARK, BORES, RAGA, LEVENBERG, CRUZ, ANDERSON, GLICK,

EPSTEIN, LEE, GUNTHER, SOLAGES -- A05682A). AN ACT TO AMEND THE

STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE NEW YORK TROPICAL

DEFORESTATION-FREE PROCUREMENT ACT; AND TO AMEND THE ECONOMIC

DEVELOPMENT LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE SUPPLY CHAIN

TRANSPARENCY ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MR. ZEBROWSKI.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. IT'S A

LENGTHY BILL BUT IN GENERAL IT DOES TWO THINGS. IT UPDATES PROVISIONS OF

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

LAW WHICH PREVENT TROPICAL DEFORESTATION, UPDATES THE LIST OF WOODS AND

SUCH. IT ALSO, THE SECOND PART OF THE BILL SETS UP A PROCESS TO ENSURE

THAT FOLKS THAT ARE CONTRACTING WITH THE STATE OF NEW YORK DO NOT

CONTRIBUTE TO TROPICAL DEFORESTATION AND THAT TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE,

EXERCISE DUE DILIGENCE THROUGH THE SUPPLY CHAIN TO ENSURE THAT THE

PRODUCTS THAT NEW YORK STATE IS PURCHASING WITH TAXPAYER FUNDING,

TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE NOT DERIVED FROM DEFORESTATION WHICH HAS BEEN A

GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL CRISIS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU FOR THE

EXPLANATION. AS YOU SAID IT'S A LENGTHY BILL INCLUDING A QUITE LONG LIST

OF HARDWOODS, SOME OF WHICH I'M NOT SURE I WOULD BE ABLE TO

PRONOUNCE. BUT THE GENERAL PURPOSE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, WOULD BE THAT,

YOU KNOW, ANY TYPE OF PROCUREMENT THE STATE'S DOING WOULD BE

AVOIDING SOURCING LUMBER THAT IS COMING FROM -- THAT IS CONTRIBUTING TO

DEFORESTATION, CORRECT? SO, IN TERMS OF WHERE THIS BURDEN WILL NOW LIE,

IT'S WITH THE CONTRACTOR WHO IS -- WHO IS CONTRACTING WITH THE STATE,

CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: CORRECT. THERE IS PROVISIONS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

TOWARDS THE END OF THE BILL WHERE WE TASK THE STATE AGENCIES WITH

MAKING IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER SETTING UP A TASK FORCE TO -- AS THEY DEVELOP

THE REGULATIONS AND ALSO HOPEFULLY IDENTIFYING BEST PRACTICES TO MAKE IT

A LITTLE BIT EASIER FOR THOSE CONTRACTORS.

MR. RA: OKAY. AS I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE, ONE OF THE

CONCERNS THAT HAS COME UP IS WITH REGARD TO WHETHER THAT IS THE

APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR -- FOR THIS BURDEN AS OPPOSED TO HIGHER UP THE

SUPPLY CHAIN, YOU KNOW, MANUFACTURERS, SUPPLIERS, BECAUSE IT MIGHT

NOT ALWAYS BE POSSIBLE FOR THE CONTRACTOR TO FULLY KNOW WHERE THEY'RE

SOURCING THE PRODUCTS. SO, WHAT -- WHAT HAPPENS IN THE INSTANCE THAT A

CONTRACTOR JUST DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE SOURCING FROM -- FROM, YOU

KNOW, A SOURCE THAT WAS IN CONFLICT WITH THIS BILL?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, THEY'RE EXPECTED TO USE

DUE DILIGENCE UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF THE BILL. BUT CERTAINLY IF THEY DID

NOT KNOW AND THAT'S DIRECTLY IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL, THERE WOULD BE

NO LIABILITY UNDER THE PENALTIES OF THE BILL.

JUST TO YOUR FIRST POINT, MR. RA. YOU KNOW, THIS DEALS

WITH CONTRACTING IN NEW YORK STATE. SO GOING UP THE LINES SAY TO THE

MANUFACTURERS AND STUFF, WOULD HAVE BEEN A FAR MORE BROAD BILL IN ONE

I DON'T KNOW THAT WE COULD NECESSARILY IMPLEMENT AND THAT WOULD BE TO

PREVENT EVEN THE IMPORT OF ANY OF THESE PRODUCTS IN AND AROUND NEW

YORK STATE. SO, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WOULD BE POSSIBLE. SO IN ORDER

TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE THIS IS A DOABLE BILL, ONE THAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW,

WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO -- WE HAVE LARGE PURCHASING POWER, RIGHT, SO WE

WANT TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION AND HOPEFULLY THIS COMBINED WITH

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

EFFORTS OF, YOU KNOW, FOLKS IN EUROPE AND OTHER COUNTRIES WILL LEAD

TOWARDS MORE KNOWLEDGE IN THE SUPPLY CHAIN AND OUR COMBINED EFFORTS

WILL HELP OUT THIS, YOU KNOW, WILL HELP PREVENT THE DEFORESTATION. BUT

TO GO FURTHER ON INTO THE MANUFACTURERS, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE REALLY

COULD DO UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO REGULATE HERE.

MR. RA: OKAY. NOW MY UNDERSTANDING IS IS THAT

THERE IS, YOU KNOW, FEDERAL REGULATION CURRENTLY. THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT HAS RULES REGARDING THE IMPORTATION OF WOOD PRODUCTS,

WHICH WOULD I THINK OBVIOUSLY APPLY TO ANY PRODUCTS THAT WERE BEING

USED BY A MANUFACTURER OR -- I'M SORRY, BY A CONTRACTOR IN NEW YORK

STATE, CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THERE ARE SOME FEDERAL

REGULATIONS OUT THERE BUT WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY GO FAR ENOUGH TO

ACHIEVE THE GOALS THAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO ACHIEVE.

MR. RA: OKAY. NOW I -- I WOULD NOTE, YOU KNOW,

USDA DOES REQUIRE PERMITS FOR THE IMPORTATION OF LOGS, LUMBER AND

OTHER UNMANUFACTURED WOOD PRODUCTS WHICH INCLUDES A PERMIT FOR

ENDANGERED SPECIES, WHICH HAS TO BE GRANTED BY THE GOVERNMENT BEFORE

IMPORTATION, AND THERE ARE ALSO RESTRICTIONS ON WHERE THE WOOD CAN

COME FROM AND THE USDA IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON REQUIRING TRACKING

OF EVEN MORE PRODUCTS TO PROTECT AGAINST ILLEGAL HARVESTING. SO THERE IS

IT SEEMS LIKE A WIDE RANGE OF FEDERAL ACTION IN THIS AREA. SO I GUESS

WHAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ARE WE MAKING SURE WE HAVE HERE THAT --

THAT DOESN'T GET COVERED ALREADY BY THE FEDERAL STATUTES AND REGULATION?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SO IT SEEMS LIKE YOU WERE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

READING FROM SOME OF THE REGULATIONS, COULD YOU JUST READ THEM AGAIN?

MR. RA: SO IT'S USDA HAS -- THERE'S A PERMIT

PROCESS. THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS ON WHERE THE WOOD CAN COME FROM AND

-- AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE'S ALSO CURRENTLY A -- A PROPOSAL OR

WORK ONGOING REGARDING TRACKING OF ADDITIONAL TYPES OF PRODUCTS.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SO, YOU KNOW, THE WORK

ONGOING, I'M NOT GOING TO ADDRESS BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN

IDENTIFY OR REALLY GUARANTEE THAT ANY OF THAT WILL PASS, BUT, YOU KNOW,

WE'VE HAD THIS LAW ON THE BOOKS FOR A LONG TIME BUT WE HAD CERTAIN

EXCEPTIONS TO IT. SO WE BELIEVE WITH OUR DEFINITIONS THAT ARE USED IN

TAKING OUT SOME OF THESE EXCEPTIONS, WHICH AFTER ALL THESE YEARS ARE --

ARE NO LONGER APPLICABLE, IN SOME CASES THERE'S ALTERNATIVE WOODS AND

ALTERNATIVE PRODUCTS THAT CAN BE USED, THAT WE GO FURTHER THAN ANY OF

THOSE FEDERAL REGULATIONS AND IN MANY WAYS WE ARE MARRYING WHAT IS

BEING DONE I THINK INTERNATIONALLY THAT IS BEST PRACTICES FOR PROTECTING

THESE FORESTS.

MR. RA: OKAY. NOW ARE THERE ANY EXCEPTIONS TO

THIS REQUIREMENT FOR CONTRACTORS SAY, YOU KNOW, AN EMERGENCY

SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO PROCURE A PRODUCT? AS I'M SURE YOU'RE

AWARE, YOU KNOW, AT THE HEIGHT OF COVID, ALL OF A SUDDEN WOOD

BECAME VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO GET A HOLD OF AND, YOU KNOW, IF

SOMEBODY WAS DEALING WITH AN -- YOU KNOW, AN ONGOING -- PERHAPS

THEY HAVE A CONTRACT OR WERE BROUGHT IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION AND

HAD TO SOURCE A PRODUCT, YOU KNOW, QUICKLY AND AS A RESULT MAYBE THEY

CAN'T GET SOMETHING THAT ISN'T IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS. ARE THERE ANY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

EXCEPTIONS?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: JUST A FEW EXCEPTIONS AND WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE TROPICAL HARDWOODS HERE. AND YOU WILL

FIND THOSE ON PAGE 7. JUST LET ME FIND IT FOR YOU HERE BECAUSE WE TAKE

SOME OUT. SO YOU FIND THAT ON PAGE 7 STARTING ON LINES 34. AND SOME

OF THEM HAVE TO DO WITH BIDS RECEIVED OR ENTERED TO PRIOR TO CERTAIN

DATES, THE RENEWAL OF CERTAIN CONTRACTS AND ALSO WHERE THERE WOULD BE A

VIOLATION OR INCONSISTENT WITH TERMS OF CERTAIN GRANTS, OR DEALING WITH A

CONTRACT WITH AN AGENCY OF -- OF THE UNITED STATES. YOU KNOW, AND AS

WE'VE DEBATED ON THIS FLOOR IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR HAS

CERTAIN EXECUTIVE POWERS THAT WOULD ENABLE HER TO SUSPEND CERTAIN

LAWS, SHOULD THAT BE NECESSARY.

MR. RA: THANK YOU. I WANT TO GET INTO THE -- THAT

SECOND PIECE OF IT, THE SUPPLY CHAIN TRANSPARENCY ASSISTANT [SIC]

PROGRAM. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS WOULD BE DONE UNDER EMPIRE STATE

DEVELOPMENT AND THEIR DIVISION OF MWBE'S; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YES, IT'S UNDER ESD. THERE IS A

PROVISION HERE FOR SMALL AND MEDIUM CONTRACTORS AND MWBES HAVING

A -- 10 PERCENT CONTRACT -- WHAT'S THE WORD...

MR. RA: SET-ASIDE.

MR. ZEBROWSKI....SET-ASIDE, RIGHT, BUT IT'S NOT THAT

OFTEN BECAUSE IT WOULD BE (INAUDIBLE).

MR. RA: OKAY. AND WITH -- WITHIN ESD, THOUGH,

ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT I HAVE HEARD IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE

BEEN SOME FUNDING CUTS IN THAT DIVISION OVER THE YEARS, AND THIS I THINK

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

IS GOING TO BE AN UNDERTAKING FOR THEM TO DO ALL THIS WORK. SO ARE WE

CONFIDENT THAT THEY HAVE THE APPROPRIATE RESOURCES TO DO SO, BECAUSE I

KNOW THE BILL DOES SAY TO ESTABLISH DEVELOPMENT AND MAINTAIN WITHIN

AVAILABLE APPROPRIATIONS THE SUPPLY CHAIN TRANSPARENCY ASSISTANCE

PROGRAM.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: CERTAINLY EVERYTHING THAT WE ASK

THE STATE AGENCY TO DO IS SUBJECT TO MONEY AND PERSONNEL CONSTRAINTS.

WE DO BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE ABILITY AND CERTAINLY ARE WILLING TO WORK

WITH THE EXECUTIVE WHO WOULD HAVE TO SIGN THIS BILL FOR IT TO COME INTO

LAW ON ANY NECESSARY ALLOCATIONS OR ANY CONCERNS SHE WOULD HAVE AS

THE GOVERNOR, IN THAT RESPECT.

MR. RA: I WOULD NOTE FOR MY COLLEAGUES, LAST -- LAST

YEAR'S BUDGET HAD $11 MILLION IN STATE-OPS FUNDING FOR THE MWBE

OFFICE OR DIVISION. THIS YEAR HAD ONLY 7, SO THERE WAS A CUT OF $4

MILLION ON THERE.

ONE SECOND. I THINK THOSE ARE ALL MY QUESTIONS FOR THE

-- FOR THE SPONSOR.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR. RA.

MR. RA: SO I THINK CERTAINLY THE ISSUE, THE

UNDERLYING ISSUE IS AN IMPORTANT ONE, BUT I -- I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT

HOW WE'RE GOING ABOUT IT IN -- IN THIS BILL. NUMBER ONE, IT MAY BE

DIFFICULT FOR A CONTRACTOR TO HAVE THIS INFORMATION AND IN SOME

INSTANCES THEY MAY NOT HAVE IT. AND REALLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET AT

IS THE STATE SAYING HEY, WE DON'T WANT TO BRING IN PRODUCTS THAT ARE

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CONTRIBUTING TO DEFORESTATION, GREAT, BUT WE'RE NOT REALLY PUTTING THE

BURDEN ON THE STATE. WHAT WE'RE DOING IS PUTTING THE BURDEN ON -- ON

THE CONTRACTORS. AND DESPITE THIS ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, WHICH I HOPE

WILL BE SUCCESSFUL IN -- IN HELPING SMALL BUSINESSES AND MWBES BE IN

COMPLIANCE AND GET STATE CONTRACTS, WITHOUT ADEQUATE FUNDING IN THE

DEPARTMENT, THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND THIS WILL REALLY END UP

CONTRIBUTING TO MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR THOSE SMALLER ENTITIES TO

GET THESE TYPES OF CONTRACTS, BECAUSE IF THEY'RE SMALLER AND DON'T HAVE

AN EASY TIME WITH PROCUREMENT OF THE MATERIALS AND -- AND HAVING THE

INFORMATION TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS BILL, THEY MAY JUST DECIDE

NOT TO APPLY FOR THOSE CONTRACTS. AND I -- I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT

MANY TIMES THIS SESSION AND IN THE PAST MAKING IT EASIER FOR THOSE

ENTITIES. I -- I FEAR THAT THIS MAY MAKE IT HARDER FOR THOSE ENTITIES. SO

I'M GOING TO BE CASTING MY VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD THE BILL

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI,

WOULD YOU YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: GLADLY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. ZEBROWSKI. I NOTE

THAT THIS BILL CHANGES THE EXEMPTIONS THAT WERE IN THE PRIOR BILL. FOR

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EXAMPLE, UNDER PRIOR LAW YOU -- YOU COULD BUY HARDWOODS THAT WERE

RAISED IN TROPICAL FORESTS AS PART OF A SUSTAINED-MANAGED FOREST. WHY

WOULDN'T WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO ALLOW THE PURCHASE OF -- OF HARDWOODS

FROM A SUSTAINED-MANAGED FOREST THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH FOREST

MANAGEMENT PRACTICES?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I THINK THAT AFTER ALL THESE YEARS

IT DOESN'T REALLY EXIST. THE -- THE DEGRADATION OF TROPICAL FORESTS IS SUCH

AND IS HAPPENING AT -- AT SUCH A RAPID RATE THAT THAT DOESN'T EXIST AND IS

NO LONGER REALLY AN EXEMPTION. THIS BILL HAS GONE THROUGH A COUPLE

DIFFERENT ITERATIONS. AND AT ONE POINT THE BOREAL FORESTS WERE IN THIS

BILL. HAD EXTENSIVE MEETINGS WITH CANADA AND THEIR FOREST TECHNIQUES

IS NO LONGER IN THIS BILL. SO WE DID MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO LOOK AT WHERE

THERE IS THIS SUSTAINABLE FORESTING, BUT IT'S NOT JUST REALLY, IT DOESN'T

REALLY EXIST IN THE TROPICAL REGIONS ANYMORE.

MR. GOODELL: AND I UNDERSTAND AND I APPRECIATE

YOUR -- YOUR COMMENTS THAT IT'S A VERY LIMITED EXCEPTION, BUT EVEN IF

IT'S A LIMITED EXCEPTION DOESN'T IT MAKE POLICY TO ENCOURAGE THAT TYPE OF

MANAGED FOREST DEVELOPMENT CONSISTENT WITH FOREST MANAGEMENT

PRACTICES? I MEAN THE EXCEPTION MAY BE SMALL, BUT DOESN'T IT MAKE

PUBLIC POLICY TO ENCOURAGE THAT TYPE OF FOREST MANAGEMENT PRACTICE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: IT DID, BUT GIVEN THE CRISIS THAT IS

EXISTING IN TROPICAL REGIONS, I THINK WE NEED TO MOVE WITH AS MUCH

ALACRITY AS POSSIBLE IN THAT EXCEPTION. WE DON'T THINK IT -- WE DON'T

THINK IT'S ENCOURAGING GOOD PRACTICES LIKE IT WAS MEANT TO.

MR. GOODELL: NOW ONE OF THE WOODS THAT'S

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SPECIFICALLY LISTED OF COURSE IS MAHOGANY. THERE'S MULTIPLE VARIATIONS

OF MAHOGANY. I WILL NOTE THAT THE MINORITY, WE HAVE LEFTOVER WOOD

DESKS, BUT I THINK THE MAJORITY ALL ENJOY BEAUTIFUL MAHOGANY DESKS.

WOULD THIS THEN PREVENT THE MAJORITY FROM REPLACING THE MAHOGANY

DESKS? I MEAN MAYBE --

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THESE DESKS?

MR. GOODELL: -- WE CAN GO BACK TO THE ROUTINE

OAK DESKS THAT THE MINORITY ENJOY.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THESE DESKS ARE WE TALKING

ABOUT?

MR. GOODELL: NO, NO, IN YOUR OFFICE.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: OH, IN MY OFFICE.

MR. GOODELL: YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED THAT

BEAUTIFUL REDDISH COLOR ON ALL THAT BEAUTIFUL MAHOGANY IN YOUR OFFICE.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I THINK WE NEED TO DO A LITTLE

OFFICE VISIT YOU AND I BECAUSE I THINK MY DESK AND FURNITURE HAVE THE

SAME DECADES-OLD ANTIQUE, VERY NICE, SERVICEABLE LOOK AS EVERYBODY

ELSE'S, BUT THAT -- THAT BEING -- THAT BEING PUT ASIDE --

MR. GOODELL: MOST ASSUREDLY YOU'RE -- YOU'RE

ALWAYS WELCOME.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DO THINK -- I DO THINK IN THE

CONFERENCE ROOM THEY REFINISHED SOME OF THE OLD SEEMS TO BE 1970S

WOOD.

MR. GOODELL: BUT THIS WOULD PROHIBIT THE

REPLACEMENT OF MAHOGANY FURNITURE IN -- IN THE STATE OFFICE COMPLEX,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: MAHOGANY FROM TROPICAL FORESTS.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. NOW AS YOU KNOW, SOME OF

THE BUILDINGS THAT WE OWN AS PART OF THE STATE HAVE GREAT HISTORIC VALUE.

MANY OF THOSE BUILDINGS ALSO USE MAHOGANY OR TROPICAL FOREST WOODS

IN PART OF THE MOULDINGS AND WOODWORK. THE EXISTING LAW EXEMPTS THE

PURCHASE OF MATCHING MAHOGANY WHEN USED IN THE CONTEXT OF HISTORIC

BUILDINGS. IS THERE A REASON WHY WE'RE ELIMINATING THAT EXCEPTION?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: AGAIN, TO -- BECAUSE WE FELT LIKE

THE EXEMPTIONS WERE NO LONGER APPLICABLE GIVEN THE CRISIS THERE, BUT I

DO THINK THAT UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF THE BILL, ANY HISTORIC RESTORATION

THEY COULD USE RECYCLED WOOD PRODUCTS. I KNOW I HAVE AT TIMES PAID

MORE THAN I THOUGHT I WOULD PAY FOR FOR CERTAIN RECYCLED BARNWOOD FOR

CERTAIN PROJECTS I NEVER REALLY GOT AROUND TO DOING, BUT I THOUGHT I WAS

AT ONE POINT. I THINK THAT DOES EXIST AS A -- AS A PRODUCT OUT THERE.

MR. GOODELL: AND INDEED I SEE THAT ONE OF THE

OTHER EXCEPTIONS THAT HAS BEEN ELIMINATED IS THE EXCEPTION THAT PROVIDE

WHERE THERE WOULD BE A SUBSTANTIAL COST INCREASE TO THE STATE. SO I

ASSUME THOSE GO HAND IN HAND. WE'RE ELIMINATING THE EXCEPTION TO USE

MAHOGANY, FOR EXAMPLE, TO REPAIR HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND RECOGNIZING

THAT THE COST MAY NOW BE MUCH, MUCH HIGHER, WE'RE ELIMINATING THE

EXCEPTION THAT RELATES TO UNUSUALLY HIGH COST, CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WE ARE BECAUSE WE DON'T

BELIEVE THAT THESE TROPICAL WOODS ARE NECESSARY ANYMORE. THERE ARE

CERTAINLY OTHER HARDWOODS THAT ARE AVAILABLE AND THERE IS - WHAT IS IT -

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WOOD PLASTIC THAT'S AVAILABLE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE PARK

BENCHES AND THE LIKE THAT ARE READILY AVAILABLE AND IN MANY CASES ARE

BETTER OR IN SOME CASES IF THEY'RE MORE EXPENSIVE, HAVE LESS UPKEEP

NECESSARY. SO WE DON'T THINK THE EXEMPTIONS ARE NECESSARY ANYMORE.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, OF COURSE, THE GREAT ADVANCE

WE HAVE ON THESE FORESTS IS THAT THE -- THE TREES THEMSELVES CAPTURE

CARBON, RIGHT, AND CONVERT IT INTO WOOD. BUT AM I CORRECT THAT THE

CARBON CAPTURE OF THESE FORESTS ARE THE SAME WHETHER IT'S A TROPICAL

FOREST OR A NORTHERN HARDWOOD, RIGHT? POUND FOR POUND IT'S THE SAME

CARBON CAPTURE, CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I DO THINK SCIENTISTS HAVE

DEBATED ABOUT THAT. THERE'S MORE TO DEFORESTATION I THINK THAN JUST THE

CARBON CAPTURE. AND SO I -- I WOULD HANG MY HAT ON ALL THE REST OF THE

THINGS, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF SPECIES EXTINCTION, WHERE WE CAN COUNT

ON, YOU KNOW, COUNTRIES DOING RESPONSIBLE FORESTRY PRACTICES AND

WHERE THEY CAN'T.

MR. GOODELL: I GUESS MY QUESTION IS - AND I

APPRECIATE THE -- LET ME ADDRESS -- THE SPECIES EXTINCTION IS ALREADY

ADDRESSED UNDER FEDERAL LAW, CORRECT?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

MR. GOODELL: WELL, AS NOTED BY MY COLLEAGUE WE

ALREADY HAVE FEDERAL PROVISIONS THAT DEALS SPECIFICALLY WITH SPECIES

EXTINCTION AND RESTRICTIONS ON IMPORTATION. BUT --

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL --

MR. GOODELL: -- HERE'S MY REAL QUESTION. I MEAN

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YOU'RE WELCOME TO COMMENT ON IT.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I WOULD JUST SAY, IF THE

DEFORESTATION IS ACCELERATING THE SPECIES EXTINCTION AND OUR DEFINITION

IS BROADER THAN THE FEDS AND WOULD RESTRICT THAT, THEN NO. BUT I DO

THINK THE FEDS HAVE SOME PROVISIONS DEALING WITH SPECIES EXTINCTION.

I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD.

MR. GOODELL: SO MY QUESTION IS, LET'S ASSUME THE

-- THE STATE IS BUYING SOME QUANTITY OF HARDWOOD. I MEAN, I DON'T

KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER MIGHT BE BUT LET'S SAY, YOU KNOW,

HALF-A-MILLION OF BOARD BEAD [SIC]. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE FROM

AN ENVIRONMENTAL PERSPECTIVE IF THAT HALF-A-MILLION OF BOARD BEAD [SIC]

COMES FROM SOUTH AMERICA OR THAT HALF-A-MILLION SQUARE FEET OF

LUMBER COMES FROM NEW YORK OR -- OR NORTH AMERICA? I MEAN IT HAS

THE EXACT SAME ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, DOESN'T IT, IN TERMS OF

DEFORESTATION.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, I WOULD SAY NO BECAUSE

THERE'S SO FEW OF THESE TROPICAL FORESTS AND THEY HAVE SUCH A SIGNIFICANT

EFFECT ON SORT OF OUR GLOBAL ECOSYSTEM THAT WE REALLY RUN THE RISK IN A

GENERATION OR LESS OF HAVING VIRTUALLY NONE OF THESE FORESTS LEFT.

WHEREAS, OTHER FORESTS WE ALSO WANT TO PREVENT DEGRADATION. LIKE I

SAID, WE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR FRIENDS TO THE NORTH. THEY

ARE MUCH MORE PLENTIFUL. THOSE COUNTRIES ARE TAKING MUCH MORE

SUCCESSFUL AND -- AND DISTINCTIVE, MEASURABLE STEPS TO PREVENT

DEFORESTATION THERE. BUT THESE TROPICAL FORESTS, THEY'RE BEING REDUCED AT

AN ALARMING RATE AND THERE ARE NOT MANY LEFT GIVEN THEIR IMPORTANCE TO

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THE GLOBAL ECOSYSTEM.

MR. GOODELL: AS YOU MIGHT APPRECIATE A LITTLE BIT

CLOSER TO HOME, STARTING IN THE '30S AND '40S, NEW YORK STATE HAD A

FAIRLY AGGRESSIVE PROGRAM FOR REFORESTATION UPSTATE FOR FARMLAND. WE

HAVE LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF ACRES IN MY COUNTY OF REFORESTATED LAND,

WHICH WAS GREAT. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN UNIQUE ECOSYSTEM, WHICH HAS

BEEN VERY HELPFUL, NO DOUBT. BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN MY COUNTY NOW

IS A NEW TYPE OF DEFORESTATION WHERE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF TIMBER ARE

CUT, CLEARCUT TO MAKE ROOM FOR SOLAR PANELS AND WIND FARMS WITH REALLY

NO REGARD FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT OF THAT DEFORESTATION. WHY IS

THAT DEFORESTATION IN NEW YORK STATE GOOD AND CUTTING A COMPARABLE

NUMBER OF TREES SOMEWHERE ELSE IS BAD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: I CERTAINLY HEARD MY COLLEAGUES

TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE. OBVIOUSLY, IT'S NOT ADDRESSED BY THIS BILL. I'M

HAPPY TO ENGAGE WITH YOU ON THAT ISSUE, TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE AMOUNT

OF FOREST WE HAVE LOST AND WHETHER THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES THAT WE COULD

PUT IN REGULATION OR STATUTE TO ENCOURAGE THE PRODUCTION OF RENEWABLE

ENERGY SYSTEMS WITHOUT CUTTING DOWN TREES.

MR. GOODELL: NOW YOU MENTIONED ONE OPTION IN

PARTICULAR, YOU MENTIONED PLASTIC THAT RESEMBLES WOOD.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YEAH.

MR. GOODELL: BUT ALL OF THAT REQUIRES FOSSIL FUEL

OF NATURAL GAS, PRIMARILY AND TO MAKE PLASTIC OR OIL-BASED PRODUCTS. IS

THAT AN ENVIRONMENTALLY-BENEFICIAL OR HARMFUL ALTERNATIVE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WE'D HAVE TO PROBABLY ENGAGE

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IN A -- A LENGTHY ANALYSIS OF BALANCING THOSE THINGS. I WOULD SAY THAT

WE HAVE A DISTINCTIVE CRISIS HERE THAT WE DON'T WANT TO BE A PART OF IN

NEW YORK, WHICH IS THE DEFORESTATION OF THESE TROPICAL FORESTS. IF

SOMEHOW A PARK BENCH CAN BE MADE IN THESE RECYCLABLE WOOD, PLASTIC

MATERIALS, I THINK DECKING IS MADE IN THIS, THEY TEND TO BE A LITTLE BIT

MORE EXPENSIVE, YOU SEE FOLKS MAKE THIS CHOICE SOMETIMES WHEN

THEY'RE PUTTING A NEW DECK ON THEIR HOME OR ON A CONDO OR SOMETHING

LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS MIGHT BE CHEAPER. I GET TEN YEARS OUT OF IT,

THIS IS MORE EXPENSIVE, I MIGHT GET 30 OR 40 YEARS OUT OF IT. SO THERE IS

CERTAINLY AN ENTIRE ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS THAT WE ARE ALWAYS

ATTEMPTING HERE AND ACROSS THE STATE TO ENGAGE IN AND KNOW MORE

ABOUT. BUT I THINK THIS IS A DISTINCTIVE THING THAT WE CAN HAVE AN EFFECT

ON AND THAT'S WHY WE PUT FORTH THE BILL BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALWAYS A

GIVE AND TAKE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

ZEBROWSKI. I ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU, MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THE

DEFORESTATION THAT WE'VE SEEN IN SOUTH AMERICA HAS BEEN DONE IN A

MANNER THAT'S NOT ENVIRONMENTALLY-SENSITIVE IN MANY SITUATIONS. AND IT

SHOULD BE A SIGNIFICANT CONCERN TO ALL OF US BECAUSE THE RAIN FORESTS ARE

A HUGE CARBON-ABSORBING NATURAL MECHANISM, AND THAT'S VERY, VERY

IMPORTANT. AT THE SAME TOKEN I MIGHT ADD, THAT HARDWOOD FORESTS IN

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NORTH AMERICA ALSO HAVE A UNIQUE AND VALUABLE DIVERSITY AND SERVE THE

SAME FUNCTION OF TAKING CARBON OUT OF THE AIR AND CONVERTING IT INTO

WOOD. SO SOMETIMES I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT WE PASS LEGISLATION

THAT APPEARS ENVIRONMENTALLY-SENSITIVE WHEN ALL IT DOES IS TRANSFER THE

ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT FROM ONE AREA TO ANOTHER. SO IN THIS CASE WE

BAN THE USE OF MAHOGANY IN NEW YORK STATE BASICALLY, INCLUDING

MAHOGANY THAT MAY BE RAISED AND GROWN IN A VERY ENVIRONMENTALLY-

RESPONSIBLE MANNER AS PART OF A SUSTAINED MANAGEMENT FOREST THAT

MEETS ALL OF OUR ENVIRONMENTAL PROSPECTIVES. SO WE ELIMINATE THE

PURCHASE OF MAHOGANY THAT'S RAISED IN AN ENVIRONMENTALLY-RESPONSIBLE

MANNER AND ULTIMATELY WE REPLACE IT WITH DEFORESTATION OF CANADIAN

FORESTS OR NORTH AMERICAN FORESTS THAT AREN'T USING THOSE FOREST

MANAGEMENT PRACTICES. I -- I HARDLY CONSIDER THAT TO BE MUCH MORE

THAN JUST SHIFTING THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES OUT OF NEW YORK, PATTING

OURSELVES ON THE BACK AND DECLARING AN ENVIRONMENTAL SUCCESS.

FOR THAT REASON I THINK THE EXISTING EXCEPTIONS SHOULD

BE CONTINUED RATHER THAN MOVE IN THIS DIRECTION. THANK YOU, SIR. AND

AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. ARI BROWN.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ZEBROWSKI, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SURE, I YIELD.

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ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR. YOU

KNOW, MANY TIMES IN THESE CHAMBERS WE TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT TYPE OF

TECHNOLOGIES, ESPECIALLY ELECTRIFICATION OF NEW YORK. SO I HAVE TO ASK,

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT OUR TELEPHONE POLES? IT'S TRUE FIR IS USED

VERY COMMONLY, BUT THE MOST COMMON WOOD USED FOR TELEPHONES AND

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE -- OUR -- OUR ELECTRICAL POLES ARE CEDAR, RED CEDAR.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T ROT, THEY STAY STRAIGHT AND

WHEN WE USE FIR THEY DEFORM. AS A MATTER OF FACT, HUNDREDS OF YEARS

BEFORE THE JEWS LEFT EGYPT, JOSEPH PLANTED CEDAR TREES IN THE EVENT THAT

THEY EVER LEFT THE SLAVES FROM EGYPT, THEY PLANTED CEDAR TREES BECAUSE

THEY KNEW THEY WOULD STAY STRAIGHT. THAT'S WHY CEDAR IS USED FOR THIS

PURPOSE. CEDAR IS - YOU CAN LOOK, IT'S ON THE LIST, ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF

CEDAR ARE ON THE LIST. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WHEN WE ELECTRIFY NEW

YORK TO CARRY THIS POWER ACROSS? CERTAINLY WE CAN'T ALWAYS GO

UNDERGROUND, CERTAINLY NOT IN UPSTATE, NEW YORK. WHAT WOULD WE

USE?

MR. ZEBROWSKI: IS CEDAR ONLY GROWN IN TROPICAL

FORESTS?

MR. A. BROWN: WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEFINITION

OF THE TROPICAL FOREST IT DOESN'T SAY SPECIFICALLY AN AREA. IT'S A VERY,

VERY BROAD STATEMENT. IT COULD BE A PROBLEM. THE REASON WHY I ASK

THIS IS AS A CARPENTER MYSELF, ALMOST EVERY WOOD SPECIES THAT'S USED BY

THE CARPENTRY INDUSTRY AND THE KITCHEN AND BATH INDUSTRY HAS BEEN

MADE NULL AND VOID. ACTUALLY, EVERY SINGLE ONE. THE MOST BASIC

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WOOD; ZEBRANO WOOD, MAHOGANY, WALNUT. THESE ARE THE BASICS OF THE

BASIC INDUSTRY. HAVE WE GOTTEN ANY ENDORSEMENTS FROM ANY OF THOSE

INDUSTRIES? CARPENTER UNIONS, CARPENTER INDUSTRIES, KITCHEN AND BATH

INDUSTRIES? WE'VE LITERALLY DECIMATED THAT INDUSTRY IN THE STATE OF NEW

YORK. THERE'S NOTHING LEFT.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: SO A COUPLE THINGS. ONE, I DON'T

KNOW IF CEDAR, IN PARTICULAR, FALLS -- IS AUTOMATICALLY GROWN IN THE

TROPICAL FOREST AS DEFINED ON -- ON PAGE 6. TWO, CARPENTERS AND FOLKS

TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY SPECIALIZE IN A CERTAIN WOOD AND PRIVATE HOMES

AREN'T INCLUDED IN THE BILL. THREE, I THINK IN TERMS OF TELEPHONE POLES, I

HADN'T HEARD OF THAT OBJECTION, NOBODY HAS COME FORTH TO PUT FORTH THAT

OBJECTION, POSSIBLY BECAUSE THEY'RE MANY TIMES PURCHASED BY THE

UTILITIES, THIS DEALS WITH NEW YORK STATE CONTRACTING. SO UNLESS IT'S US

AS A STATE CONTRACTING FOR THESE POLES, AND MAYBE THERE ARE SOME MINOR

ISSUES WITH THAT, I THINK IN GENERAL IT WOULD BE THE UTILITIES AND IT

WOULDN'T BE COVERED BY THE BILL. BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M ACTUALLY

INTERESTED TO KNOW WHAT TYPE OF WOOD THEY USE SO MAYBE IN THE FUTURE

I'LL LOOK, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'D BE COVERED BY THE BILL.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR. THE

REASON WHY I ASK AND I ASK THIS QUESTION AGAIN, THE CEDAR HAS TO BE

GOING INTO SOME TYPE OF TROPICAL FOREST, THEY CAN'T GROW IT IN ARID

SECTIONS SO IT DOES FALL UNDER YOUR BILL. WE WILL BE ELECTRIFYING NEW

YORK IN A BIG WAY. SOMEONE'S GOING TO BE BUYING IT. IT COULD BE THE

UTILITIES, THEY COULD BE SUBCONTRACTING IT OUT, AS MY COLLEAGUE MR.

GOODELL SAID. YOU KNOW, I THINK AT CERTAIN POINTS WE HAVE GOOD

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INTENTIONS, BUT AT CERTAIN POINTS WE CAN'T DRIVE ALL OF OUR BUSINESS TO

OUT-OF-STATE CONTRACTORS TO DO OUR WORK IN NEW YORK, WHETHER

PURCHASING OR CONTRACTING OUT TO SOMEONE ELSE WHO'S GOING TO BUY THE

WORK TO BE DONE IN NEW YORK FROM AN OUT-OF-STATE WORKER. WE HAVE

TO SOMETIMES TAKE MEASURES THAT DON'T CRUSH THE STATE AND DRIVE

EVERYBODY OUT IN EVERY INDUSTRY, WHICH THIS PROBABLY DOES.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: WELL, I --

MR. A. BROWN: IF YOU CAN LOOK INTO CEDAR WOOD, I

THINK YOU'LL FIND THAT --

MR. ZEBROWSKI: YEAH, I'M HAPPY -- I'M HAPPY TO

LOOK INTO THE ISSUE. LIKE I SAID, UTILITIES WOULDN'T BE COVERED BY THIS.

THE ISSUES YOU BRING UP, I CERTAINLY DO TRY TO TAKE INTO

CONSIDERATION BUT IT'S NOT LIKE A NEW YORK CONTRACTOR WOULD HAVE TO

COMPLY WITH THIS BUT AN OUT-OF-STATE CONTRACTOR WOULD NOT. NO MATTER

WHERE THE CONTRACTOR IS FROM, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY IN ORDER TO

DO THE WORK IN ORDER TO CONTRACT WITH NEW YORK STATE. THIS HAS

NOTHING TO DO WITH PRIVATE CONTRACTING, WITH BUILDINGS, HOMEOWNERS,

OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. AND ACTUALLY, THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE BILL THAT

WOULD INCENTIVIZE SMALL AND MEDIUM AND MWBE BUSINESSES TO

PURCHASE PRODUCTS FROM NEW YORK STATE BUSINESSES. SO WE DID

ATTEMPT TO EVEN HAVE A PROVISION IN THE BILL THAT WOULD BENEFIT NEW

YORK STATE BUSINESSES TO THE EXTENT THAT WE COULD. I AGREE WITH YOUR

CONCERNS, DO THINK WE NEED TO EVALUATE THEM WITH EVERY BILL. I DON'T

KNOW THAT I AGREE THAT THIS BILL DRIVES BUSINESS OUT OF NEW YORK STATE

BECAUSE YOU COULD BE A BUSINESS IN HAWAII IF YOU WANT TO -- IF YOU

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WANTED TO DO WORK WITH NEW YORK STATE YOU'VE GOT TO COMPLY WITH

THE BILL.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR.

MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. AS MENTIONED

DURING THE DEBATE, I HAVE CONCERNS THAT SOME OF THE EXCEPTIONS THAT

ALLOWED THE PURCHASE OF TROPICAL WOOD WERE REMOVED FROM THE CURRENT

LAW. THOSE EXCEPTIONS INCLUDED ALLOWING THE PURCHASE OF THAT TROPICAL

WOOD WHEN THERE WAS NO REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE OR WHERE THE COST OF

THE ALTERNATIVE WAS UNUSUALLY HIGH OR WHERE THAT TROPICAL WOOD WAS

NEEDED AS PART OF A HISTORIC RENOVATION. THOSE WERE CONCERNS OF MINE.

AT THE SAME TOKEN, I'M ALSO CONCERNED THAT THERE'S APPARENTLY NO

CONSIDERATION TO NORTH AMERICAN HARDWOODS, WHICH SERVE THE SAME

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION THAT A TROPICAL HARDWOOD DOES. AND SO WE AS

A STATE APPEAR TO BE ENDORSING THE DEFORESTATION OF NEW YORK STATE

PROPERTY WHEN IT COMES TO INSTALLING WINDMILLS AND SOLAR PANELS, WHILE

PROFESSING OUR ENVIRONMENTAL SENSITIVITY TO THE DEFORESTATION IN OTHER

COUNTRIES. AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WE REPEATEDLY SEEM TO THINK THAT WE

ARE SOLVING THE WORLD'S ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS BY SHIFTING THE

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ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. AND SO IN NEW YORK

STATE WE IMPOSE HIGH AIR EMISSION STANDARDS AND REFUSE TO PERMIT ANY

NATURAL GAS PLANTS, BUT FREELY IMPORT NATURAL GAS ELECTRICITY FROM ALL OF

OUR NEIGHBORING STATES, OR WE PROUDLY DRIVE AN ALL-ELECTRIC VEHICLE

KNOWING THAT THE BATTERY WAS MANUFACTURED IN CHINA USING COAL, OFTEN

CHARGED WITH FOSSIL FUELS HERE IN NEW YORK STATE. AND OF COURSE,

MINE IN HORRIFIC CONDITIONS IN OTHER FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

SO I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S SENSITIVITY TO

DEFORESTATION, AND I WOULD SUPPORT THIS BILL IF WE HAD KEPT IN THE

EXCEPTION THAT ALLOWED FOR THE PURCHASE OF THESE PRODUCTS FROM

PROPERLY-MANAGED SUBTROPICAL FORESTS, WHICH WAS AN EXCEPTION THAT

WAS REMOVED. FOR THAT REASON I WON'T BE SUPPORTING IT. THANK YOU,

SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. GOODELL IN

THE NEGATIVE.

MS. GLICK.

MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. BRIEFLY TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. THE TROPICAL RAINFORESTS ARE IN FACT THE LUNGS OF THE

WORLD AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT MEASURE. A COMPANY IN MY DISTRICT

REACHED OUT TO ME, THEY ARE A CHOCOLATE COMPANY. THEY ACTUALLY WORK

IN THESE AREAS WHERE THEY'RE GROWING THE COCOA AND, YOU KNOW, A WORLD

WITHOUT CHOCOLATE IS PRETTY SCARY. SO I THINK THAT IT'S NOT JUST THAT THESE

ARE THE LUNGS OF OUR EARTH BUT IT'S ALSO THAT THERE ARE OTHER PRODUCTS THAT

ARE GROWN IN THE SHADE OF THESE TREES AND ARE NECESSARY FOR THE

LIVELIHOOD OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE, BUT ALSO FOR PRODUCTS THAT WE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

USE HERE. ANCILLARY PRODUCTS THAT WE MAY NOT THINK OF AS BEING AN

IMPORTANT PART OF OUR FOOD SUPPLY. SO I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND

THANK THE SPONSOR AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MS. GLICK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL HAS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSE OF AN

ANNOUNCEMENT.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD

YOU PLEASE CALL THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S

CONFERENCE ROOM? AND BY THE WAY, COLLEAGUES, THAT'S GOING TO BE

IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY THE RULES COMMITTEE, IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: WAYS AND MEANS

COMMITTEE, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

(PAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WHILE OUR

COLLEAGUES MOVE TORWARDS THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS WE'RE GOING TO TAKE

UP THIS BILL THAT IS RULES REPORT NO. 231 BY MS. KELLES.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: PAGE 6, RULES

REPORT NO. 231, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04903, RULES REPORT

NO. 231, KELLES, BURDICK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

IN RELATION TO ACCESSING SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER SERVICES BASED ON THE

INDIVIDUAL'S GENDER IDENTITY, GENDER EXPRESSION AND/OR SEXUAL

ORIENTATION.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MS. KELLES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. KELLES.

MS. KELLES: CERTAINLY. THIS BILL IS VERY SIMPLE

AND STRAIGHTFORWARD. ALL IT DOES IS REQUIRE THAT SUBSTANCE USE TREATMENT

SERVICES IN NEW YORK STATE ARE PROVIDED IN THE CONTEXT OF AN

INDIVIDUAL'S GENDER PREFERENCE.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MS. KELLES, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MS. KELLES: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: SHE YIELDS.

MS. WALSH: I -- I AGREE WITH YOU, THERE AREN'T VERY

MANY LINES AND YET I STILL HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

MS. KELLES: SURE. NO WORRIES.

MS. WALSH: SO WHAT -- WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING TO

BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ADDICTION SERVICES AND SUPPORTS? WILL THEY

NEED TO DEVELOP NEW PROGRAMMING OR IS IT MORE THE SENSE OF A

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SENSITIVITY OF INDIVIDUALS SEEKING TREATMENT TO RESPECT AND, YOU KNOW,

UNDERSTAND THE -- THE GENDER PREFERENCE ISSUE OF THE INDIVIDUAL SEEKING

TREATMENT?

MS. KELLES: SO THE -- THE LATTER IS FOUNDATIONAL TO

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. IT IS UP TO, OF COURSE, THE STATE TO DETERMINE

WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE EFFECTIVELY MEETING THAT. ARE THERE -- IS THERE

ADDITIONAL CONTINUING EDUCATION THAT WE NEED TO PROVIDE, IS THERE ANY

ADDITIONAL EDUCATION THAT WE WOULD WANT TO ENSURE OR REQUIRE, CULTURAL

COMPETENCE, OF COURSE. I WOULD HOPE THAT TO PROVIDE TREATMENT THERE

WOULD BE AN AWARENESS THAT TO DO IT EFFECTIVELY YOU WOULD CERTAINLY

NEED TO HAVE THAT CULTURAL COMPETENCE AND EDUCATION AND CONTINUING

EDUCATION.

MS. WALSH: OKAY, OKAY. I APPRECIATE THAT. SO IT'S

NOT THAT -- BECAUSE I DID READ IN YOUR SPONSOR'S MEMO, YOU TALKED

ABOUT HOW INDIVIDUALS WHO IDENTIFIED AS LGBTQ+ CAN HAVE HIGHER

INCIDENCES OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES. BUT IS THERE -- THE -- THE METHOD

OF TREATMENT FOR SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES IS NOT DIFFERENT, IT'S MORE OF --

OF KIND OF MEETING THE PATIENT WHERE THEY ARE IN ALL RESPECTS, CORRECT?

MS. KELLES: WELL, FOR THE MOST PART, YES, BUT LET

ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

MS. WALSH: OKAY.

MS. KELLES: SO SAY SOMEONE REALLY NEEDED TO GO

INTO A TREATMENT FACILITY. THEY'RE A TRANS INDIVIDUAL, FEMALE, BUT THEY'RE

BEING FORCED TO BE IN -- SEPARATED OUT WITH ONLY MEN IN THE FACILITY OR A

MALE PART OF THE FACILITY BECAUSE BIOLOGICALLY A DOCTOR IDENTIFIES THEM

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

AS MALE AND REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY THEMSELVES, SEE

THEMSELVES, KNOW THEMSELVES TO BE A FEMALE. THAT WOULD BE COUNTER

TO THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. AND THAT WOULD BE A REASON WHY SOMEONE

WHO IS TRANSGENDER MIGHT NOT SEEK HELP BECAUSE THEY ARE -- THAT IS A

FORM OF ABUSE AND AGGRESSION AGAINST THEM. SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE

THINGS THAT THIS IS ADDRESSING.

MS. WALSH: OKAY, THAT'S GREAT. THAT'S GOOD TO

KNOW. THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WHAT

THE RATIONALE WAS FOR IT AND I -- I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU VERY

MUCH. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MS. KELLES, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MS. KELLES: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE SPONSOR

YIELDS.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. KELLES. THE

CURRENT LAW REQUIRES THAT ALL THESE ADDICTION SERVICES BE QUOTE, "OF

HIGH-QUALITY AND EFFECTIVENESS AND THAT THE PERSONAL AND CIVIL RIGHTS OF

PERSONS SEEKING AND RECEIVING ADDICTION SERVICES, CARE, TREATMENT AND

REHABILITATION ARE ADEQUATELY PROTECTED." THAT'S THE CURRENT LAW. IS IT

YOUR VIEW THAT THAT DIRECTIVE THAT THE SERVICES BE OF HIGH QUALITY AND

EFFECTIVENESS AND THAT THE PERSONAL AND CIVIL RIGHTS BE RESPECTED IS NOT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

BEING FOLLOWED OR THAT THAT STANDARD IS TOO LOW OR INADEQUATE?

MS. KELLES: I'M SAYING IT'S INADEQUATE. THAT BEING

EXPLICIT IN THIS WAY. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU MAY HAVE A HEALTH CARE

PRACTITIONER. THEY DON'T SEE THEMSELVES AS BEING DISCRIMINATORY, THEY

FEEL VERY STRONGLY AND CLEARLY THAT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO TREAT

SOMEONE BASED ON THEIR BIOLOGY IN THEIR MIND --

MR. GOODELL: BASED ON WHAT?

MS. KELLES: BIOLOGY, EXCLUSIVELY. IN THEIR MIND

THEY MAY FEEL THAT THAT'S ACCURATE.

MR. GOODELL: ARE ADDICTION SERVICES BASED ON

BIOLOGY?

MS. KELLES: SO IN THE EXAMPLE THAT I GAVE

SPECIFICALLY, JUST AS ONE EXAMPLE, IN PERSON OR IN A TREATMENT FACILITY,

RIGHT, THAT IS A PLACE WHERE YOUR PHYSICAL PERSON IS ACTUALLY PART OF THE

TREATMENT. YOUR EXISTING IN THAT FACILITY IS PART OF THAT TREATMENT. SO

YES, THAT REFERS TO YOUR BIOLOGY. IF YOU ARE PUT INTO A TREATMENT FACILITY

IN A PART OF THE FACILITY BASED ON YOUR BIOLOGY AND NOT YOUR GENDER

PREFERENCE, THAT IS A FEELING OF DISCRIMINATION AND ABUSE FOR THE

INDIVIDUAL. THAT MAY NOT BE THE INTENT. SO TO BE EXPLICIT IS TO

ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE MUST ACTUALLY TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHETHER

THE EMOTIONAL INTENT OF AN INDIVIDUAL OR THE EDUCATION OF AN INDIVIDUAL

IS -- IS -- IS THERE OR LACKING, THAT WE MUST BE EXPLICIT IN THE RECOGNITION

OF THE GENDER PREFERENCE AND THAT WE TREAT THEM AND THE SERVICE WE

PROVIDE IS RELEVANT TO THEIR GENDER PREFERENCE.

MR. GOODELL: SO --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. KELLES: AND THEY'RE ALSO -- JUST TO ADD, THERE

ARE EXPERIENCES OF MICRO-AGGRESSION THAT CAN PROFOUNDLY AND

SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACT A POPULATION'S SEEKING OF TREATMENT, WHICH THE

RESEARCH SHOWS IS IN FACT THE CASE, QUITE SIGNIFICANTLY WITH THE

LGBTQIA POPULATION.

MR. GOODELL: SO IS IT YOUR VIEW THAT THE STATUTORY

CHANGE WILL ELIMINATE MICRO-AGGRESSION?

MS. KELLES: I AM SAYING THAT IT CAN, AND THAT IS THE

INTENT, IS TO GO IN THAT DIRECTION. WILL IT ELIMINATE THE IMPERFECTIONS OF

HUMANITY? NO. IS THERE CERTAINLY EXAMPLES WHERE WE WILL FIND WE'RE

INDIVIDUALS, BUT ARE WE CREATING AN INTENT IN THE LAW TO MOVE IN THAT

DIRECTION, A HUNDRED PERCENT.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, OF COURSE -- WELL, MY FIRST --

MY FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE THESE ADDICTION SERVICES CURRENTLY BEING

PROVIDED ON A GENDER BASIS? BECAUSE I WAS NOT AWARE THAT THEY WERE

EVEN PROVIDED ON A GENDER BASIS.

MS. KELLES: PROVIDED --

MR. GOODELL: -- OR PERHAPS HOW OFTEN AND TO WHAT

EXTENT?

MS. KELLES: RIGHT. SO DO YOU MEAN GENDER OR DO

YOU MEAN SEX, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THE SAME THING.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, LET'S USE THE LANGUAGE OF YOUR

BILL BASED ON GENDER IDENTITY, GENDER EXPRESSION OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

SO HOW PREVALENT ARE SERVICES DIVIDED OR DISTINGUISHED ON THOSE

GROUNDS CURRENTLY, BECAUSE I WASN'T AWARE THAT THERE WAS ANY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

DISTINCTION CURRENTLY.

MS. KELLES: SO HERE'S AN EXAMPLE --

MR. GOODELL: -- BUT NEITHER A PRACTITIONER NOR A

PATIENT.

MS. KELLES: YEAH, YEAH. SO IN THE RESEARCH WHAT

HAS BEEN FOUND IS THAT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT INCREASED DISCOMFORT OF

TREATING THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY VERSES THE NON-LGBTQIA

COMMUNITY, AND THAT THERE ARE INSTANCES SUFFICIENT ENOUGH WHERE EVEN

THE GENDER PREFERRED BY THE INDIVIDUAL IS NOT WHAT'S BEING USED. SO IF

YOU -- YOU'RE A HE, RIGHT, I'M ASSUMING? I DON'T WANT TO BE TOO

PRESUMPTIVE BUT YES, YOU LIKE TO BE REFERRED TO AS HE/HIM.

MR. GOODELL: YOU CAN CALL ME ANDY OR...

MS. KELLES: BUT EVERY TIME YOU WENT TO SEE A

DOCTOR -- I -- I LOVE CALLING YOU ANDY AS WELL. BUT IF YOU WENT TO A

DOCTOR AND CONSISTENTLY THEY REFERRED TO YOU AS SHE OR HER, YOU WOULD

FEEL THAT YOU WERE NOT BEING SEEN OR IDENTIFIED AND IT WOULD PROBABLY

BOTHER YOU IN SOME WAY.

MR. GOODELL: ONLY ONCE, BY THE WAY.

MS. KELLES: SO IF YOUR TRUE IDENTITY --

MR. GOODELL: THAT WOULD ONLY BOTHER ME ONCE --

MS. KELLES: I AM SO SORRY THAT HAPPENED.

MR. GOODELL: -- BECAUSE I'D THEN QUOTE, THEN FIND

A DOCTOR THAT WASN'T VISUALLY IMPAIRED.

MS. KELLES: BUT YOU SOUGHT OTHER TREATMENT

BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WANT TO CONTINUE WITH THEM, THAT'S EXACTLY MY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

POINT. IT'S THE EXPERIENCE OF NOT BEING SEEN, NOT BEING REFERRED TO AND

IT'S ONE THING IF IT'S IN PUBLIC.

MR. GOODELL: SO MY QUESTION THEN IS --

MS. KELLES: -- THE EXPERIENCE IS IF IT'S WITH YOUR

HEALTHCARE PRACTITIONER.

MR. GOODELL: NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT ON AN

INDIVIDUAL BASIS - AND I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. MY

QUESTION IS, IS THIS A STRUCTURAL ISSUE THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED BY

LEGISLATION? IN OTHER WORDS, ARE OUR CURRENT ADDICTION SERVICES IN ITS

SUPPORTS IN ANY WAY STRUCTURALLY-ORIENTED AROUND GENDER EXPRESSION OR

SEXUAL ORIENTATION?

MS. KELLES: ARE THEY STRUCTURED? CAN YOU EXPLAIN

WHAT YOU MEAN BY ARE THEY STRUCTURED AROUND GENDER?

MR. GOODELL: I RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S A CONCERN

THAT YOU HAVE PRACTITIONERS WHO MAY NOT BE SENSITIVE. I UNDERSTAND

THAT. HOW WILL THIS STATUTE, STATUTORY CHANGE AFFECT THAT?

MS. KELLES: RIGHT. THIS WOULD REQUIRE THAT THE

TREATMENT BE SPECIFIC WITH THEIR GENDER PREFERENCE AND THEIR SEXUAL

ORIENTATION. IT WOULD REQUIRE THAT. SO IF -- LET'S TAKE THAT A STEP FURTHER.

IF SOMEONE EXPERIENCES THE OPPOSITE FROM THEM, BUT THIS WAS EXPLICIT

AND PROTECTS THEM, THAT WOULD GIVE THEM RECOURSE.

MR. GOODELL: AND THEN WHAT WOULD THE RECOURSE

BE? WOULD IT BE A CENSORSHIP, A SUSPENSION OF LICENSE, WITHDRAW OF

FUNDING, A FINE, WHAT -- HOW IS THIS GOING TO BE ENFORCED?

MS. KELLES: SO THAT WILL BE DESIGNED BY -- AND ALL

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE DETAILS OF THAT, AND I WAS VERY INTENTIONAL IN NOT HAVING THE HOW

LAID OUT IN THIS, BECAUSE THAT IS LEFT UP TO THE OASIS DEPARTMENT ON

HOW THEY WILL ENFORCE OR APPLY THIS. THE REQUIREMENT THAT IT EXISTS,

THAT THEY BE TREATED AS SUCH IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY. IT WAS VERY

INTENTIONAL AND I DID WORK WITH THE DEPARTMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE

WERE ALIGNED.

MR. GOODELL: NOW WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF

COMMENTS, PARTICULARLY DURING COVID, THAT THERE ARE OTHER GROUPS OF

PEOPLE THAT SEEM TO BE UNDERREPRESENTED IN TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO

OBTAIN HIGH-QUALITY TREATMENT. IN PARTICULAR BLACKS, MINORITIES,

SOMETIMES IMMIGRANTS OR THOSE WITH DIFFERENT ETHNICITY. WHY DOESN'T

THIS LANGUAGE SAY THAT IT INCLUDES EVERYONE REGARDLESS OF AGE, RACE,

COLOR, NATIONAL ORIGIN, ETHNICITY AND A FULL RANGE OF SERVICES THAT ARE

PROTECTED BY OUR HUMAN RIGHTS LAW?

MS. KELLES: SO YOU HAVE THEM ALL OUTLINED AS YOU

JUST DESCRIBED IN THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW ALREADY. WE ARE FINDING THAT

SPECIFICALLY TREATMENT IS NOT ALIGNED TO THE LEVEL THAT IT SHOULD BE. WE

ARE SEEING THAT LGBTQIA POPULATION IS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE LIKELY,

PARTICULARLY TRANS POPULATIONS, TO HAVE SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER PARTLY IN

RESPONSE TO THEIR CONSISTENT TREATMENTS, ABUSE AND DISCRIMINATION, AND

WE ARE SEEING A DECREASE OR SIGNIFICANT LOWER LEVEL OF ATTAINING OR

SEEKING TREATMENT FROM THIS PARTICULAR POPULATION. SO I WOULD POSE

BACK TO YOU. IF WE ARE SEEING AN INCREASE IN PREVALENCE OF SUDS AND

WE ARE SEEING A SPECIFIC DISPROPORTIONATE SIGNIFICANT LOWER LEVEL OF

USAGE OF THAT TREATMENT BY THE EXACT SAME POPULATION, THAT WOULD

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

REQUIRE OF US AN INTERVENTION, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS, TO ADDRESS THAT

DISPARITY.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT -- THAT THERE

MAY BE DISPARITIES BUT A FEW YEARS AGO WE PASSED A GENDER EQUALITY

AND NONDISCRIMINATION ACT, AND WE AMENDED THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW

TO COVER SPECIFICALLY THESE FACTORS, RIGHT? GENDER IDENTITY, GENDER

EXPRESSION, SEXUAL ORIENTATION. IS THIS AN ISSUE OF A FAILURE TO ENFORCE

EXISTING LAW?

MS. KELLES: I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IT IS NECESSARILY A

FAILURE. I THINK THIS IS A LACK OF AWARENESS AND CULTURAL SENSITIVITY THAT

WE ARE REQUIRING THE IMPLEMENTED AND INCLUDED IN THIS PARTICULAR TYPE

OF TREATMENT BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE. I WILL

NOTE, THOUGH, OF -- OF INTEREST TO ME. VERY RECENTLY THERE WAS A BILL THAT

WAS DEBATED. THIS WAS S1783, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE ASSEMBLY

NUMBER WAS, THAT IS -- IT WAS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION, AND THIS WAS IN LONG-TERM CARE. AND THAT BILL WAS

UNANIMOUS OF BIPARTISAN SUPPORT. SO THERE'S -- THERE'S NOT A LACK OF

PRECEDENT OF THIS EFFORT TO MAKE THE BEST PRACTICES WITHIN OUR

HEALTHCARE ARENA EXPLICIT, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS. THIS IS BEST PRACTICE.

THIS IS REQUIRED, BEST PRACTICE, THAT IS EXPLICIT BECAUSE OF WHAT WE ARE

SEEING, WHICH IS THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY NOT SUFFICIENTLY OR SUCCESSFULLY

ADDRESSING THE NEEDS OF THIS POPULATION.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I

APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. GOODELL ON

THE BILL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE CURRENT LAW,

WHEN IT APPLIES TO ADDICTION SERVICES, REQUIRES THOSE SERVICES TO BE

QUOTE, "OF HIGH-QUALITY AND EFFECTIVENESS." AND FURTHERMORE, THE

CURRENT LAW REQUIRES THAT THE PERSONAL AND CIVIL RIGHTS OF PERSONS

SEEKING AND RECEIVING ADDICTION SERVICES ARE PROTECTED. THE CONCERN I

HAVE IS THAT WHEN WE START LISTING CERTAIN CLASSIFICATIONS OF PEOPLE, THE

LIST INVARIABLY DOESN'T INCLUDE SOMEONE ELSE. AND SO WE START OUT WITH

A VERY GENERAL STATEMENT THAT SAYS EVERYONE IN NEW YORK STATE IS

ENTITLED TO HAVE HIGH-QUALITY AND EFFECTIVE ADDICTION SERVICES. WE START

OUT WITH THE CURRENT LAW THAT SAYS EVERYONE IN NEW YORK STATE SHOULD

HAVE SERVICES THAT ARE ADEQUATELY PROTECTING OF THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS, AND

THEN WE START ADDING. INCLUDING, THOSE WITH SEXUAL -- GENDER IDENTITY

OR GENDER EXPRESSION OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION. AND THE OBVIOUS QUESTION

IS, WELL, WHY DON'T WE INCLUDE EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING YOUR

NATIONALITY. INCLUDING YOUR ETHNICITY, INCLUDING YOUR RACE OR YOUR

COLOR. WHY DO WE TAKE ONE GROUP AND SAY AND WE MEAN YOU, WHEN THE

LAW ALREADY COVERS EVERYONE. THE CURRENT STANDARD IS THE CORRECT

STANDARD. EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO HIGH-QUALITY AND EFFECTIVE SERVICE.

EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO HAVE CARE, SERVICES, TREATMENT, REHABILITATION

THAT ADEQUATELY PROTECT THEM. EVERYONE. WE DON'T NOW NEED TO

AMEND THE LAW TO LIST EVERYONE. IT'S ALREADY COVERED. AND SO THE REAL

QUESTION IS, WHY ARE WE GOING DOWN THIS PATH? AND I DON'T -- STILL

DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHY WE NEED TO LIST SOME PEOPLE WHEN THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ORIGINAL LAW ALREADY APPLIES TO EVERYONE, INCLUDING THEM. THANK YOU,

SIR, AND THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSE OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THIS IS A REMINDER. THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE

RULES COMMITTEE NEED TO HEAD TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM,

IMMEDIATELY. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: RULES COMMITTEE,

SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM, IMMEDIATELY.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 30 DAYS.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. KELLES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. KELLES: SO I WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT OUR

RESPONSIBILITY, I BELIEVE, IN THIS -- IN THIS ROOM IS TO PROTECT THE HEALTH

AND WELL-BEING OF NEW YORKERS. AND THAT IS THE INTENTION OF THIS BILL.

AND I WANT EVERYONE TO REMEMBER AS WELL, THAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN

THIS ROOM HAS A GENDER IDENTITY. EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS ROOM HAS

A SEXUAL ORIENTATION. THERE IS NOTHING EXCLUSIONARY OR NARROWING

ABOUT THIS BILL. TO REQUIRE, AT A BASELINE, THAT WE INCLUDE IN TREATMENT

THAT PEOPLE BE TREATED BASED ON THEIR GENDER IDENTITY, GENDER

PREFERENCE AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION DOES NOT INCLUDE -- DISCLUDE ANYONE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

BUT IF OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO HELP THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF OUR

PEOPLE, WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE REALITY. AND THE REALITY IS, IN ALL

THE SCIENTIFIC ARTICLES, SPOTLIGHT ON LGBTQIA SUBSTANCE ABUSE

TREATMENT, SIGNIFICANTLY ON THE RISE IN THE LGBTQIA POPULATION. WE

NEED TO NOTE THAT. WE ALSO HAVE EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE SIGNIFICANTLY

LESS LIKELY TO SEEK TREATMENT. IF WE HAVE A POPULATION THAT WE KNOW

HAS A PROBLEM AND WE KNOW WE CAN HELP THEM, THEN IT IS OUR

RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO. AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DOING

TODAY WITH THIS VOTE. I OBVIOUSLY STAND IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. I HOPE

EVERYONE WILL HEAR THE HUMANITY OF THIS, THE INCLUSIVITY OF THIS AND JOIN

ME IN SUPPORTING THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, MEMBERS

HAVE ON THEIR DESKS A B-CALENDAR. I'D LIKE TO ADVANCE THAT B-CALENDAR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES, THE B-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR. IF WE

CAN NOW BRING OUR ATTENTION DIRECTLY TO RULES REPORT NO. 897 BY MS.

MITAYNES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07764, RULES REPORT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

897, MITAYNES, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC

AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING "THE PLANNED OFFSHORE WIND

TRANSMISSION ACT."

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

MITAYNES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. DO YOU HAVE A

HOME RULE REQUEST.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THERE IS NO HOME

RULE MESSAGE AT THE DESK.

MR. GOODELL: THEN, SIR, CONSISTENT WITH OUR OWN

RULES AND THE NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION, SINCE THIS DEALS

SPECIFICALLY WITH THE ALIENATION OF LOCAL PARKLAND AND PURPORTS TO

AUTHORIZE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO ACT, I BELIEVE WE NEED A HOME RULE

REQUEST BEFORE WE CAN PROCEED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: IN DISCUSSION WITH

OUR COUNSEL, NO HOME RULE REQUEST WAS REQUIRED IN THIS CASE AND I

BELIEVE THE SPONSOR WILL SPEAK TO THAT.

MR. GOODELL: BUT, SIR, EARLIER VERSIONS OF THIS BILL

REQUIRED A HOME RULE REQUEST. CAN I ASK FOR AN EXPLANATION AS TO WHY

OUR HOME RULE COUNSEL HAS REVERSED ITSELF ON THIS PARTICULAR BILL?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AND HOLD ON ONE

MINUTE.

(PAUSE)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE COUNSEL THAT THIS BILL NOW HAS LARGER ISSUES OF

STATEWIDE CONCERN, MORE THAN JUST A PARKLAND ALIENATION AND AS SUCH,

THEY RULED THAT IT WILL NOT REQUIRE A HOME RULE REQUEST.

MR. GOODELL: SO IS IT THE OPINION OF COUNSEL THAT

IF YOU TAKE A BILL, WHICH HAS ABSOLUTELY UNEQUIVOCAL IMPACT ON LOCAL

GOVERNMENT AND ADD SOMETHING ADDITIONAL, THAT WE THEN CIRCUMVENT

THE NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION AND REQUIRE THE HOME RULE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AS I'VE SAID PREVIOUS

TO THAT, THE ISSUES IS NOT JUST A MINOR ISSUES. IT'S A LONGER, BIGGER ISSUE

IMPACTING THE ENTIRE STATE, AND IT'S UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT THE

HOME RULE REQUEST IS NOT REQUIRED IN THIS INSTANCE.

MR. GOODELL: I WOULD NOTE THAT ARTICLE IX,

SECTION 2, SUBPARAGRAPH B(2) OF THE NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION SAYS

THAT, WE, THE STATE LEGISLATURE, SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO ACT IN RELATION

TO THE PROPERTY, AFFAIRS OR GOVERNMENT OF ANY LOCAL GOVERNMENT ONLY BY

GENERAL LAW OR BY SPECIAL LAW ONLY AT THE REQUEST OF THE MEMBERSHIP OF

THE LOCAL LEGISLATIVE BODY. THERE IS NO QUANTIFICATION AS TO WHETHER IT

HAS LARGER IMPLICATIONS. SO HOW IS IT THAT WE CAN TAKE THE POSITION THAT

IF IT'S A LARGER IMPLICATION THAT SOMEHOW THE CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT

NO LONGER APPLIES?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WELL, WE ARE

STANDING ON THAT RULING AND WILL BY THE VOTE OF THE BODY DETERMINE THAT

THIS IS A -- A BILL THAT WE WILL CARRY AND PASS, IF THAT IS THE WILL OF THE

BODY.

MR. GOODELL: DO WE HAVE AN EMERGENCY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR OR A CERTIFICATE OF NECESSITY?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NO. THIS IS A BILL THAT

OBVIOUSLY HAS A SENATE SPONSOR, PASSED BY THE SENATE AND SENT OVER TO

US.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, THEN WITH ALL DUE RESPECT,

HOW ARE WE IN COMPLIANCE WITH RULE III, SECTION 2 OF OUR OWN RULES

WHICH SAYS THAT WHERE A HOME RULE REQUEST OR A CERTIFICATE OF

NECESSITY OR AN EMERGENCY MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR IS PROVIDED,

THEN IT HAS TO BE FILED WITH YOU AND WE CAN PROCEED. I'D ALSO

REFERENCED BY THE WAY RULE III, SECTION 2, SUBPARAGRAPH I.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WELL, WE HAVE, MR.

GOODELL, RULED THAT IT'S NOT REQUIRED AND WE'LL PROCEED TO DEAL WITH THE

BILL AS IS PRESENTED.

MR. GOODELL: AND, MR. SPEAKER, WHO IS THE "WE"

THAT'S MADE THAT RULING BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN ANY VOTE OF

THIS LEGISLATURE; AM I CORRECT?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WELL, WE ARE

BRINGING THE BILL IN THE SAME MANNER WE BRING ALL BILLS THROUGH THE

COMMITTEE PROCESS.

MR. GOODELL: ALTHOUGH, THIS IS THE ONLY BILL THAT'S

COMING UP THIS YEAR WHERE THERE WAS A HOME RULE REQUEST, A HOME

RULE REQUEST WAS PROVIDED, THE HOME RULE COUNSEL REJECTED IT ON A

TECHNICALITY AND THERE'S BEEN NO SUBSEQUENT HOME RULE REQUEST; IS THAT

CORRECT?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THERE'S NO HOME

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

RULE REQUEST ON THIS BILL.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, THERE WAS A HOME RULE

REQUEST SUBMITTED ON ALMOST IDENTICAL LEGISLATION THAT WAS RECEIVED BY

THE ASSEMBLY ON JUNE 5TH AND WAS REJECTED BY THE HOME RULE COUNSEL

ON THE GROUND THAT THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH A DATE. IT WAS REJECTED ON

JUNE 20TH.

(PAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MY COUNSEL TELLS ME

THAT IT AMENDS THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW AND DOES NOT REQUIRE A

HOME RULE.

MR. GOODELL: BUT WE ALSO HAVE ALIENATION OF

PARKLAND INCLUDED IN THIS BILL, CORRECT?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AND AS I SAID IN THE

BEGINNING, BECAUSE IT HAS NOW TAKEN ON THIS ERA OF LARGER IMPACT TO THE

ENTIRE STATE, THAT THAT IS NOT REQUIRED, AND THAT IS THE RULING.

MR. GOODELL: THEN WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, SIR, I

APPEAL THE RULING OF THE CHAIR AND ASK THAT THE WHOLE BODY RULE ON

WHETHER OR NOT THE ALIENATION OF LOCAL PARKLAND THAT REQUIRES A LOCAL

LAW ALSO REQUIRES A HOME RULE REQUEST AS WE HAVE DONE IN THIS BODY

FOR AS MANY YEARS AS I HAVE BEEN HERE. AND I ASK FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO

EXPLAIN THE APPEAL.

(PAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL HAS

APPEALED THE RULING OF THE CHAIR AND HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN

THAT AND WE WILL EXPLAIN HIS APPEAL UPON WHICH WE WILL VOTE ON THIS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

RULING.

PROCEED, MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE BILL STARTING IN

SECTION VI WHICH IS ON PAGE 3, SPECIFICALLY DEALS WITH THE ALIENATION OF

PARKLANDS THAT ARE CONTAINED WITHIN THE CITY OF LONG BEACH IN NASSAU

COUNTY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. AND IT'S NOT JUST A HYPOTHETICAL

REFERENCE OR A PASSING REFERENCE. THE BILL THEN GOES ON TO PROVIDE A

DESCRIPTION BASED ON TAX LOT, BLOCK AND A FULL DESCRIPTION, INCLUDING A

LEGAL DESCRIPTION. THIS LEGISLATURE ALWAYS REQUIRES A HOME RULE

REQUEST WHEN WE ARE CONSIDERING AUTHORIZING A LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO

ALIENATE PARKLAND. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A REQUIREMENT. I DARE SAY THERE'S

NOT A SINGLE MEMBER IN THIS CHAMBER TODAY, AMONGST ALL 150, WHO

HAVEN'T HAD TO GET A HOME RULE REQUEST TO AUTHORIZE LOCAL GOVERNMENT

TO ALIENATE LOCAL PARKLAND. IT'S NEVER HAPPENED. BUT IT'S NOT JUST A

COURTESY TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT. IT IS A REQUIREMENT IN OUR NEW YORK

STATE CONSTITUTION AND IN OUR OWN LAW, OUR OWN RULES. SO ARTICLE IX,

SECTION 2, PARAGRAPH B OF THE NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION, WHICH

TALKS ABOUT THE BILL OF RIGHTS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT STATES, THAT THE

LEGISLATURE AND I QUOTE, "SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO ACT IN RELATION TO THE

PROPERTY, AFFAIRS OR GOVERNMENT OF ANY LOCAL GOVERNMENT ONLY BY

GENERAL LAW, OR BY SPECIAL LAW ONLY ON REQUEST OF TWO-THIRDS OF THE

TOTAL MEMBERSHIP OF ITS LEGISLATIVE BODY OR ON REQUEST OF ITS CHIEF

EXECUTIVE OFFICER CONCURRED IN BY A MAJORITY OF SUCH MEMBERSHIP." IN

OTHER WORDS, IF WE ARE ACTING IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE PROPERTY OF A LOCAL

GOVERNMENT, SUCH AS A PARK OWNED BY LOCAL GOVERNMENT, WE CAN ONLY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

DO IT WITH A HOME RULE REQUEST. THE WORD "ONLY" IS USED NOT ONCE,

BUT TWICE, JUST IN CASE YOU MISSED IT THE FIRST TIME.

THIS SESSION ALONE WE HAVE PASSED OTHER LOCAL LAWS.

THIS SESSION ALONE WE'VE PASSED LAWS DEALING WITH PARKLANDS HERE IN

THIS CHAMBER AND EVERY TIME WE'VE DONE IT THIS YEAR WE REQUIRED A

HOME RULE REQUEST. NOW WHY DON'T WE HAVE A HOME RULE REQUEST

HERE? PROBABLY BECAUSE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT HASN'T FILLED OUT THE

FORMS OR ASKED FOR IT. THEY DID ONCE, BY THE WAY. BECAUSE EARLIER THIS

YEAR, THE HOME RULE COUNSEL CORRECTLY RULED THAT THEY NEEDED A HOME

RULE REQUEST AND THEY SUBMITTED ONE AND IT WAS DEFECTIVE, THEY SENT IT

BACK. AND AS THE SPEAKER HAS TOLD US, WE DON'T HAVE ONE. LADIES AND

GENTLEMEN, WE DON'T GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT SECTIONS OF THE

CONSTITUTION WE FOLLOW. WE DON'T GET TO SAY WHAT ONE PROJECT, IT HAS

LARGER SIGNIFICANCE THAN PARKLAND AND THEREFORE WE LET A HOME RULE

REQUEST IT. WE IGNORE IT. THIS DEALS WITH THE ALIENATION OF PARKLAND.

WITHOUT A HOME RULE REQUEST WE DO NOT HAVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL

AUTHORITY TO PROCEED.

AND SO, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE VOTE TO FOLLOW

THE SAME PROCEDURE WE'VE USED FOR DECADES REQUIRING A HOME RULE

REQUEST, THAT WE VOTE TO FOLLOW THE SAME PROCEDURE WE'VE USED ALL YEAR

THIS YEAR AND REQUIRE A HOME RULE REQUEST, AND THAT WE VOTE TO FOLLOW

THE SAME PROCEDURE THAT WAS INSISTED UPON EARLIER THIS YEAR BY THE

HOME RULE COUNSEL THAT SAID WE HAD TO HAVE A HOME RULE REQUEST.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR. THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

QUESTION BEFORE THE HOUSE IS SHALL THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR STAND AS

THE JUDGMENT OF THE HOUSE. VOTING YES IS A VOTE TO SUSTAIN THE RULING

OF THE CHAIR. VOTING NO, A VOTE TO OVERRIDE THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR.

A PARTY VOTE HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO

THE CHAIR WHO IS SOMETIMES PUT IN AN AWKWARD POSITION OF EXPLAINING

WHY THE HOME RULE COUNSEL REVERSED HIMSELF, I THINK THE FIRST DECISION

WAS CORRECT AND I WOULD NOTE THAT THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IS

GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THE RULING OF THE CHAIR. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU'RE WELCOME, MR.

GOODELL, BUT I'M NOT IN AN AWKWARD POSITION.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. GOODELL: (INAUDIBLE), SIR.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, AND I CONCUR WITH YOU, YOU ARE NOT IN AN AWKWARD POSITION.

SO THE DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN A POSITION OF

SUSTAINING YOUR DECISION. YOUR RULING IS THE RULING WE WILL FOLLOW.

THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT RULES REPORT NO. 897 SHOULD MOVE FORWARD.

IT DOES NOT REQUIRE A HOME RULE AS IT DID IN THE PAST. THE PAST PIECE OF

LEGISLATION WAS WRITTEN BY A DIFFERENT LEGISLATOR WHO WAS JUST TALKING TO

HIS DISTRICT ALONE. THE CURRENT PIECE OF LEGISLATION IS BEING WRITTEN BY A

LEGISLATOR WHO REPRESENTS A DIFFERENT PART OF THE STATE THAT WILL BE

IMPACTED BY THE WORK OF THIS LEGISLATION. AND SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME AND THE REST OF US IN MAKING SURE THAT YOU'RE

DECISION IS SUSTAINED WITH A YES VOTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU BOTH.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE RULING OF THE CHAIR IS SUSTAINED.

ON THE BILL.

MR. GOODELL: MR. SPEAKER, PURSUANT TO RULE 2,

SECTION V OF OUR RULES, I HEREBY MOVE THAT WE AMEND THIS BILL BY

STRIKING SECTION VI, WHICH DEALS SOLELY WITH THE ALIENATION OF PARKLAND

FOR WHICH WE HAVE NO HOME RULE REQUEST. SO MY MOTION IS TO SIMPLY

STRIKE SECTION VI OF THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: HAVE YOU PRESENTED

IT TO THE DESK?

MR. GOODELL: NO, I HAVEN'T. I'M MAKING THE

MOTION FROM THE FLOOR, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AMENDMENTS MUST

BE PROVIDED IN WRITING TO THE DESK.

MR. GOODELL: AND WHERE IS THAT IN OUR RULES, SIR?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: IT HAS BEEN THE RULING

OF THIS BODY AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN HERE AND WE'VE HAD SIMILAR

CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE SUCH WAS BROUGHT FORWARD BUT WERE RULED

INAPPROPRIATE BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T PROVIDED IN FORM AND THAT OF THAT IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

REQUIRED.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, SIR, CAN

YOU POINT ME TO THE LANGUAGE IN OUR RULES THAT CONDITION A MOTION

MADE UNDER SECTION V OF RULE 2 ON ANY PRIOR WRITTEN NOTICE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WELL, IT'S MORE THAN

JUST A MOTION. IT IS AN AMENDMENT TO A BILL ON THE BOARD.

MR. GOODELL: INDEED. IT'S RULE 2, SECTION V,

SUBPARAGRAPH A, SECTION VII WHICH AUTHORIZES MOTIONS TO AMEND.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AND AS I SAID, IT'S THE

CUSTOM AND PRACTICE OF THE HOUSE THAT SUCH AMENDMENTS HAVE TO BE

BROUGHT FORWARD IN WRITING IN A FORM APPROVED, AS MOST AMENDMENTS

AS YOU WELL KNOW ARE PROVIDED.

MR. GOODELL: SO THERE'S NO WRITTEN REQUIREMENT

IN OUR RULES? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I THINK CUSTOM AND

PRACTICE ARE SELF-EXPLAINING.

MR. GOODELL: SO YOU'RE RULING MY MOTION OUT OF

ORDER EVEN THOUGH THERE'S NO PROVISION IN THE RULES THAT REQUIRE

ADVANCED WRITTEN NOTICE; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: FOLLOWING CUSTOM

AND PRACTICE I AM, YES.

MR. GOODELL: IS THIS THE SAME CUSTOM AND

PRACTICE THAT REQUIRES HOME RULE FOR ALL PARK ALIENATION LAND?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AS I SAID, MR.

GOODELL, I ALWAYS SMILE WHEN YOU GET TO THE MIC.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. GOODELL: I'M JUST READING THE RULES, SIR, AND I

JUST DON'T SEE ANY ADVANCED WRITTEN REQUIREMENT FOR ANY MOTION THAT'S

SET FORTH IN RULE 2, SECTION V, (A)7, BUT I HAVEN'T MEMORIZED THE ENTIRE

SECTION OF RULES. SO OTHER THAN CUSTOM AND PRACTICE WHICH WE'RE

THROWING OUT THE WINDOW IN THE EARLIER RULING, IS THERE ANYTHING IN

WRITING THAT REQUIRES ADVANCED WRITTEN NOTICE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ONE MINUTE WHILE I --

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR.

(PAUSE)

SIR, WHILE YOU'RE LOOKING THAT UP, I WOULD POINT OUT

THAT WE HAVE NOW PROVIDED YOU WITH A WRITTEN COPY OF THE SUGGESTED

AMENDMENT.

(PAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AGAIN, MR. GOODELL

-- MR. GOODELL?

MR. GOODELL: YES, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON PAGE 8 OF THE

RULES OF THE ASSEMBLY, SECTION VI(A), AMENDMENTS TO A BILL SHALL BE

MADE BY THE MEMBER PROPOSING THE AMENDMENT IN THE FORM PRESCRIBED

BY THE CLERK OF THE ASSEMBLY AND DELIVERED TO THE INDEX CLERK.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR, FOR THAT

CLARIFICATION. I WITHDRAW THE MOTION TO AMEND. AND NOW MAKE A

MOTION THAT WE TABLE THIS BILL FOR HALF AN HOUR TO ALLOW THE AMENDMENT

TO BE PRESENTED TO THE CLERK ON THE FORM PRESCRIBED BY THE CLERK SO

THAT YOU NOW WILL HAVE IT IN WRITING ON THE PROPER FORM. SO MY MOTION

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

IS TO TABLE THIS BILL FOR HALF AN HOUR SO THAT WE CAN GET YOU THAT SIMPLE

AMENDMENT IN THE FORMAT YOU REQUEST.

(PAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AGAIN, BY PAST

PRACTICE, MR. GOODELL, AN AMENDMENT MUST BE TAKEN UP BEFORE WE

HAVE A BILL ON THE BOARD. THE BILL IS ON THE BOARD AND IN PROCESS. AND

SO YOUR REQUEST FOR THAT HALF HOUR ADJOURNMENT IS NOT TAKEN FAVORABLY.

MR. GOODELL: FINE. I WITHDRAW THAT MOTION AND

HEREBY MAKE A MOTION TO STRIKE THIS BILL FROM THE CALENDAR SO THAT WE

CAN GIVE YOU A AMENDMENT ON THE FORM THE CLERK WOULD LIKE AND IT CAN

THEN BE PUT BACK ON THE CALENDAR.

(PAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THAT MOTION AT THIS

MOMENT IS OUT OF ORDER, MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: AND WHY IS THAT, SIR?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: BECAUSE WE HAVE A

BILL ON THE BOARD, WHICH WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF DEBATING. AND IT IS

OUR JUDGMENT THAT WE SHOULD PROCEED WITH THAT BILL.

MR. GOODELL: BUT AS, YOU KNOW, RULE 2, SECTION

V DEALING WITH MOTIONS SAYS, WHEN A QUESTION IS BEFORE THE ASSEMBLY,

ONLY THE FOLLOWING MOTION SHALL BE RECEIVED AND SUCH MOTION SHALL

HAVE PRECEDENCE IN THE ORDER STATED. SO A MOTION TO STRIKE FROM THE

CALENDAR HAS PRECEDENCE OVER EVERYTHING ELSE, SIR.

(PAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO READING FROM THIS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SECTION, WHEN A QUESTION IS BEFORE THE ASSEMBLY, ONLY THE FOLLOWING

MOTION SHALL BE RECEIVED AND SUCH MOTION SHALL HAVE PRECEDENT IN THE

ORDER STATED. ONE, ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE OR CALL OF THE HOUSE FOR

PREVIOUS QUESTION TO LAY ON THE TABLE TO POSTPONE TO A DAY CERTAIN TO

COMMIT TO AMEND TO POSTPONE INDEFINITELY AND TO STRIKE FROM THE

CALENDAR; HOWEVER, IT DOES NOT SAY THAT THOSE MOTIONS HAVE PRECEDENT

OVER EVERYTHING ELSE, SUCH AS THE RULING THAT WE HAVE PROVIDED. SO I

THINK YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES ARE INCORRECT AS PROVIDED BY

COUNSEL.

MR. GOODELL: AS YOU CORRECTLY NOTED HAVING READ

THE RULES, THAT THE FIRST PHRASE UNDER RULE 3, SECTION V, SUBPARAGRAPH

(A) IS WHEN A QUESTION IS BEFORE THE ASSEMBLY, WHEN A QUESTION IS

BEFORE THE ASSEMBLY, THE FOLLOWING MOTIONS CAN BE MADE. THE ONLY

TIME A QUESTION IS BEFORE THE ASSEMBLY IS WHEN A BILL IS CALLED UP. WE

DON'T HAVE A QUESTION BEFORE US IF THE BILL IS NOT ON THE AGENDA AND IS

NOT CALLED UP. AND SO SINCE THIS QUESTION IS NOW BEFORE US, PURSUANT TO

RULE 2, SECTION V, PARAGRAPH A, WHEN THIS QUESTION IS NOW BEFORE US,

AS IT IS NOW, PURSUANT TO SUBPARAGRAPH (A)9, I MAKE A MOTION TO STRIKE

THIS QUESTION THAT'S IN FRONT OF US FROM THE CALENDAR.

THE MOTION CAN'T BE MADE UNLESS THE QUESTION IS

BEFORE THE HOUSE UNDER OUR OWN RULES. SO I CAN'T MAKE THE MOTION

BEFORE THE BILL IS CALLED. I CAN ONLY MAKE THE MOTION AFTER THE BILL IS

CALLED. AND THE MOTION IS ONE OF THE MOTIONS THAT'S LISTED IN OUR RULES.

SO I HEREBY MAKE THE MOTION TO STRIKE FROM THE CALENDAR.

(PAUSE)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE HAVE STILL FIND

YOUR MOTION OUT OF ORDER, MR. GOODELL, AND IF YOU CHOOSE, YOU CAN

CHALLENGE THE RULING OF THE CHAIR AND WE WILL...

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT

OPPORTUNITY. I WOULD CHALLENGE THE RULING OF THE CHAIR AND ASK FOR A

MOMENT TO SPEAK ON THE APPEAL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. MR.

GOODELL HAS CHALLENGED THE RULING OF THE CHAIR AS TO THE MOTION HE

MADE, WHICH WE RULED OUT OF ORDER AND WE WILL HAVE MR. GOODELL

EXPLAIN.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. SO WE HAVE OUR

OWN RULES OF PROCEDURE THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW HERE IN THE

ASSEMBLY. AND THEY'RE ALL LAID OUT IN OUR RULES, WHICH YOU CAN SEE

ONLINE, ANY ONE OF YOU CAN PICK UP YOUR TABLET AND READ THEM YOURSELF.

IN RULE 2, SECTION V, STARTS OUT AND SAYS, S WHEN A QUESTION IS BEFORE

THE ASSEMBLY, AND IT GOES ON TO SAY CERTAIN MOTIONS CAN BE MADE. BUT

IT STARTS OUT, WHEN A QUESTION IS BEFORE THE ASSEMBLY. WELL, A QUESTION

IS ONLY BEFORE US IN THE ASSEMBLY WHEN THE BILL IS CALLED UP. WE ALL

KNOW THERE ARE BILLS THAT SOMETIMES ARE SUBMITTED, SOMETIMES YOU PULL

IT OUT OF COMMITTEE THAT NEVER HIT THE CALENDAR, RIGHT? WE KNOW THAT.

THE ONLY TIME WE'RE CALLED UPON TO VOTE IS WHEN THE BILL IS CALLED UP

FOR A VOTE, WHICH IS RIGHT NOW. AND OUR RULES SAY THAT WHEN THAT

QUESTION IS BEFORE THE ASSEMBLY, WE CAN MAKE VARIOUS MOTIONS. WE

CAN ADJOURN, CALL THE HOUSE, PREVIOUS QUESTION LAY ON THE TABLE,

POSTPONE TO A CERTAIN DAY, COMMIT, AMEND, POSTPONE INDEFINITELY OR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

STRIKE FROM THE CALENDAR. NOW LET ME ASK EACH OF YOU, I JUST LISTED THE

NINE, YOU MAY HAVE RECALLED NUMBER 4 WAS LAY ON THE TABLE. HAVE WE

EVER IN THIS CHAMBER LAID A BILL ASIDE BEFORE IT WAS CALLED? EVER! AS A

MINORITY LEADER I LAY ASIDE HUNDREDS OF BILLS. NEVER, EVER DO WE LAY

ASIDE A BILL BEFORE IT'S CALLED. WELL, THAT'S NUMBER 4, LAY ASIDE A BILL.

NUMBER 9 IS REMOVE FROM THE CALENDAR. NOW WE ARE BEING TOLD THAT

YOU CAN'T MAKE ANY OF THESE NINE RULINGS OR MOTIONS, YOU CAN'T MAKE

ANY OF THESE NINE MOTIONS ONCE THE BILL HAS BEEN CALLED. REALLY? SO

ONCE THE BILL IS CALLED WE CAN'T LAY IT ASIDE? IS THAT THE RULING? ONCE

THE BILL IS CALLED YOU CAN'T POSTPONE IT, YOU CAN'T ADJOURN, YOU CAN'T

AMEND. ONCE THE BILL IS CALLED YOU CAN'T CALL THE PREVIOUS QUESTION. IS

THIS WHAT WE'RE DOING, JUST TAKING THESE OUT, TOSSING THEM IN THE TRASH?

AREN'T WE A BODY OF RULES AND LAWS? AREN'T WE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW OUR

OWN RULES? OR DO WE THINK THAT IF YOU HAVE A MAJORITY, YOU DON'T HAVE

TO FOLLOW THE RULES.

NOW LOOK. I MADE A MOTION TO TAKE IT OFF THE TABLE.

THE DEMOCRAT PARTY HAS A MAJORITY, THEY DON'T LIKE THE MOTION THEY

CAN TURN IT DOWN. BUT TO SAY I CAN'T MAKE THE MOTION UNDER THE SAME

SECTION OF LAW THAT GIVES ME THE RIGHT TO LAY ASIDE A BILL IS SIMPLY

WRONG.

SO I WOULD RECOMMEND, THAT WITH GREAT RESPECT TO THE

SPEAKER, WHOM I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR, THAT WE OVERRIDE THAT RULING,

THAT WE ALLOW THE MOTION TO TAKE IT OFF THE CALENDAR TO BE HEARD BY THIS

BODY, AND THE MAJORITY, IF THEY WANT TO KEEP IT ON THE CALENDAR, CAN

VOTE TO KEEP IT ON THE CALENDAR, BUT LET'S NOT SHRED OUR RULES. THANK

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. THE

QUESTION BEFORE THE HOUSE IS SHALL THE JUDGMENT OF THE CHAIR STAND AS

THE JUDGMENT OF THE HOUSE. THOSE VOTING YES VOTE TO SUSTAIN THE RULING

OF THE CHAIR, THOSE VOTING NO VOTE TO OVERRIDE THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR

AND I PRESUME A PARTY VOTE IS REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: ON THAT ISSUE YOU ARE VERY ASTUTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I DIDN'T JUST GET HERE

BY ACCIDENT.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. GOODELL: THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE, WITH

DUE RESPECT, DISAGREES WITH YOUR PRIOR RULING AND WILL BE VOTING NO.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WOULD NOT OVERRIDE YOUR RULING.

YOUR RULING WILL BE SUSTAINED AND THE MERE SUGGESTION THAT SOMEHOW

WE DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW RULES, I THINK IS NOT TRUE. I THINK WE'VE --

WE'VE HEARD THREE TIMES MR. GOODELL ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE HAVE

TRIED TO CHANGE THE DECISION THAT WE'VE ALREADY PUT ON THE FLOOR. AND IF

IT CALLS FOR US CONTINUING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SUSTAINING YOUR RULING

UNTIL WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE CAN DEBATE THE BILL THAT'S ON THE

FLOOR, THEN I WOULD SAY LET'S DO THAT, MR. SPEAKER, AND I'M ENCOURAGING

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MY COLLEAGUES TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO NOT OVERRIDE, BUT WE SUBSTAIN

[SIC] YOUR RULING AND THAT WE VOTE TO SUPPORT THAT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE RULING OF THE CHAIR IS SUSTAINED.

ON THE BILL.

AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MS. MITAYNES.

MS. MITAYNES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. IN

RECENT DAYS WHERE WE HAVE SEEN ORANGE SKIES, WHERE PLANES WERE

GROUNDED BECAUSE OF LOW VISIBILITY FROM SMOKE, WHERE MANY

INDIVIDUALS OF MODERATE, LONG-TERM CHRONIC HEALTH CONDITIONS WERE

FORCED TO SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION AT THEIR LOCAL CLINICS, AND WHERE

COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE FACED THE CHALLENGE OF RECORD LOWS IN OUR

AIR QUALITY, THE PLANNED OFFSHORE WIND TRANSMISSION ACT IS CRITICAL TO

ENSURING THAT THE STATE OF NEW YORK CAN MEET ITS CLIMATE AND

RENEWABLE ENERGY MANDATE UNDER THE CLCPA. IT WILL ESTABLISH A

PROCESS OF IMPROVED TRANSMISSION PLANNING AND COORDINATION SYSTEM

FOR AN OFFSHORE GRID. THE STATE'S PLANNED OFFSHORE WIND PROJECTS ARE

ESSENTIAL TO MEETING ITS MANDATE OF REDUCING ECONOMY-WIDE

GREENHOUSE EMISSIONS BY 40 PERCENT FROM 1990 LEVELS BY YEAR 2030,

AND BY NO LESS 85 PERCENT BY YEAR 2050, AND PRODUCING NINE GIGAWATTS

194

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

BY THE YEAR 2035.

THE CREATION OF OFFSHORE WIND AND THE NATURE OF OUR

RENEWABLE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE IS A MATTER OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE.

A DELAY IN THIS PROJECT WOULD NEGATIVELY IMPACT WORKFORCE

DEVELOPMENT AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ASSOCIATED WITH OFFSHORE

WIND ENERGY DEVELOPMENT AND INTERCONNECTION, AND RISK FURTHER

ADVERSE CLIMATE IMPACTS TO COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE. ADDRESSING

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A MATTER OF SUBSTANTIAL STATE CONCERN, AND IMMEDIATE

PASSAGE OF THIS BILL IS THE ONLY WAY TO ENSURE THAT CRITICAL OFFSHORE WIND

PROJECTS PROCEED, THAT THE STATE CLIMATE MANDATE IS MET, AND THAT

THOUSANDS OF GOOD-PAYING UNION JOBS ARE NOT AT RISK.

IN ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE COMMUNITIES LIKE MINE AND

THOSE ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK, ENSURING THE CONTINUED SUCCESS OF

THIS PROJECT GUARANTEES RESPONSIBLE RETIREMENT OF AGING FOSSIL FUEL

POWER PLANTS IN OUR COMMUNITIES. A KEY PART OF THE CLCPA MANDATES

WILL TAKE PLACE AT THE SOUTH BROOKLYN MARINE TERMINAL IN MY DISTRICT,

AND PART OF THE PROJECTS THAT WILL BE ADVANCED BY THIS BILL. THE SOUTH

BROOKLYN MARINE TERMINAL IS LOCATED IN AN ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE

COMMUNITY, THE 51ST ASSEMBLY DISTRICT IN SOUTH BROOKLYN, IN THE

NEIGHBORHOOD OF SUNSET PARK. SUNSET PARK HAS GONE THROUGH YEARS OF

GOVERNMENT DISINVESTMENT, DIVIDED BY A HIGHWAY, IN A FLOOD ZONE,

WITH SOME OF THE HIGHEST ASTHMA RATES. WE MUST MOVE AWAY FROM THE

EXTRACTION ECONOMY AND MOVE TOWARD CLIMATE SOLUTIONS THAT PUT

FRONTLINE COMMUNITIES LIKE SUNSET PARK IN POSITIONS OF LEADERSHIP, WHO

HAVE BORNE THE BRUNT OF ENVIRONMENTAL INJUSTICE FOR SO MANY YEARS.

195

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE COMMUNITY HAS FOUGHT TO REVITALIZE THE PORT IN A

WAY THAT WOULD OFFER THE KIND OF HIGHLY-TRAINED, CAREER-SUSTAINING JOBS,

ALL WHILE PRESERVING THE LAST WORKING WATERFRONT IN NEW YORK CITY

FROM LUXURY DEVELOPMENTS, NOW MAKING SUNSET PARK ESSENTIAL IN

HELPING NEW YORK ACHIEVE THE CPA -- THE CLCPA GOALS. THE SOUTH

BROOKLYN MARINE TERMINAL STANDS TO BE THE CORNERSTONE IN ENABLING

NEW YORK STATE TO ACHIEVE ITS CLIMATE GOALS, TRANSFORMING THE REGION

INTO A RENEWABLE ENERGY HUB. THROUGH THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE

SOUTH BROOKLYN MARINE TERMINAL AS AN OFFSHORE WIND HUB, IT

MAINTAINED THE INDUSTRIAL AREA, OFFERED WORKFORCE OPPORTUNITIES THAT

PAY LIVING WAGES, ACCESSIBLE TO THE COMMUNITY AND NEW YORK AS A

WHOLE. THE SOUTH BROOKLYN MARINE TERMINAL STANDS TO BECOME THE

LEADING OFFSHORE WIND HUB WORLDWIDE. IT WILL BE HOME TO STAGING AND

ASSEMBLY FOR OFFSHORE WIND COMPONENTS. THE FACILITY WILL CREATE

FABRICATION AND ASSEMBLY CAREERS FOR DECADES TO COME, SUPPORTING

OFFSHORE WIND PROJECTS TO BE BUILT FIVE, TEN AND 20 YEARS FROM NOW.

CREATING AN OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE BASE WITH CAPABILITIES TO

SUPPORT WIND FARMS. SUPPORTING EMPIRE WIND 1 AND 2 WILL PRODUCE

2.1 GIGABYTES OF RENEWABLE ENERGY AND POWER MORE THAN ONE MILLION

NEW YORK HOMES. SOUTH BROOKLYN MARINE TERMINAL WILL ALSO PROVIDE

SUPPORT TO BEACON WIND, ANOTHER MAJOR OFFSHORE WIND FARM THAT WILL

CONNECT INTO ASTORIA, QUEENS, AT THE ASTORIA GATEWAY FROM ASTHMA

ALLEY TO RENEWABLE ROW. THE SOUTH BROOKLYN MARINE TERMINAL WILL

SUPPORT THOUSANDS OF JOBS ANNUALLY IN THE REGION, AND IS BEING

REDEVELOPED THROUGH LOCALLY-BASED SUPPLIERS, CREATING LOCAL

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OPPORTUNITY.

TOGETHER, THE PROJECTS THAT WILL BE SUPPORTED THROUGH

THE SOUTH BROOKLYN MARINE TERM -- TERMINAL, EMPIRE WIND AND

BEACON WIND WILL DELIVER 3.3 GIGAWATTS OF THE RENEWABLE ENERGY,

ENOUGH TO POWER TWO MILLION NEW YORK HOMES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BROWN.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. MITAYNES, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MS. MITAYNES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. MITAYNES YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR. I

HEARD A LOT ABOUT BROOKLYN AND SUNSET PARK. I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING

ABOUT LONG ISLAND BECAUSE, AFTER ALL, THE ENTIRE BILL HAS ONLY TO DO WITH

DIGGING UP THE STREETS OF LONG BEACH AND PUTTING UP FACILITIES IN ISLAND

PARK, AND NOT WORD -- ONE -- ONE WORD ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THOSE

COMMUNITIES. I'M GLAD YOUR COMMUNITY IS GOING TO BENEFIT, SO I'LL ASK

YOU THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS. HOW MANY MILES OF BOARDWALK ARE THERE

IN THE CITY OF LONG BEACH, SIX OR NINE MILES? I'LL GIVE YOU A CHOICE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR STAFF, YOU CAN LOOK AT ME; I'M SURE YOU

WERE THERE.

MS. MITAYNES: I DON'T SEE WHAT THIS HAS TO DO

WITH THE BILL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. A. BROWN: IT EXACTLY HAS TO DO WITH IT BECAUSE

WE HAVE AN EXCEPTIONAL SITUATION RIGHT NOW WHERE WE HAVE A SPONSOR

WHO HAS NO IDEA ABOUT A PARTICULAR COMMUNITY IS ASKING TO GROSSLY

IMPACT A COMMUNITY WITH HER BILL, A BILL THAT SHE'S TAKING ON THAT IS A

VERY, VERY, VERY LOCAL BILL. AND I SAY THAT WITH GREAT RESPECT TO THE

SPEAKER, BUT HE IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT. THIS IS COMPLETELY AND ONLY TO

DO WITH THE CITY OF LONG BEACH AND ISLAND PARK AND NOTHING ELSE.

NEW YORK CAN -- IF IT WAS A NEW YORK BILL, THEY COULD RUN IT RIGHT IN

THE WATER, BUT AS A FACT, THE PERSON THAT YOU'RE WORKING FOR THAT HE SAID

YOU WERE WORKING FOR, THEIR LOBBYIST SPECIFICALLY SAID HE TOLD YOU THAT

HE JUST DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO THE DEC. THAT WAS A FACT AND THE GUARDS

WERE THERE AT THE DOOR HEARING IT.

SO LET'S GET -- LET'S GET TO THE POINT. HOW MANY MILES

DO WE HAVE OF -- OF THE CITY OF LONG -- LET ME GIVE YOU A DIFFERENT

QUESTION. WHO IS THE MAYOR OF ISLAND PARK? YOU CERTAINLY HAVE MET

WITH HIM BECAUSE THIS IS A BIG ISSUE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WHISPER INTO

HER EAR, SHE MUST KNOW THAT. SHE MET WITH HIM. COME ON, WHAT'S --

WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE MAYOR?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. -- MR. BROWN.

MS. MITAYNES: I DON'T SEE THIS AS A LOCAL ISSUE.

WHILE IT'S TRUE THAT IT INVOLVES MUNICIPAL PARKLAND ALIENATION, IT IS ONLY

FOR TEMPORARY CONSTRUCTION, AUTHORIZATION AND A PERMANENT SUBSURFACE

EASEMENT WHICH ONCE COMPLETED, WILL INCLUDE A FULL SURFACE

RESTORATION. THIS MEANS THAT THE PARKLAND WILL CONTINUE TO BE USABLE AS

PARKLAND. IN ADDITION, WE HAVE A LETTER FROM THE CITY COUNCIL

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EXPRESSING THEIR SUPPORT FOR THIS LEGISLATION.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR. SO

THE ANSWER IS YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO -- WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, MADAM

SPONSOR. YOU HAVE THE LETTER. MAY I ASK, WHO IS THE CITY MANAGER,

THE PERSON THAT RUNS THE CITY OF LONG BEACH WHO YOU'RE QUOTING RIGHT

NOW? WHO'S THE CITY MANAGER? COME ON, YOU HAVE THE LETTER IN FRONT

OF YOU.

MS. MITAYNES: THE LETTER IS FROM THE LONG BEACH

CITY COUNCIL.

MR. A. BROWN: OKAY. WHO IS THE CITY MANAGER?

THE MAYOR, THE CHIEF OF LONG BEACH, WHO IS THAT, PLEASE? YOU MUST

HAVE SPOKEN TO HIM. IT'S THAT IMPORTANT, YOU READ ME THE LETTER.

MS. MITAYNES: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IS THE SUBJECT

OF THIS BILL.

MR. A. BROWN: I'M SORRY?

MS. MITAYNES: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT IS THE

SUBJECT OF THIS BILL.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR. YOU

QUOTED A LETTER THAT YOU RECEIVED OF SUCH IMPORTANCE THAT THEY WANTED

THIS, YOU MUST HAVE SPOKEN TO HIM OR HAVE IT IN THE BILL, WHO'S THE CITY

MANAGER, THE PERSON THAT INSTRUCTED TO WRITE THIS GREAT LETTER THAT YOU

JUST READ TO ME?

MS. MITAYNES: THE LETTER IS FROM THE LONG BEACH

CITY COUNCIL.

MR. A. BROWN: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU SPOKE TO

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THEM - I -- I RESPECT THAT, MADAM SPONSOR. WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU

SPOKE TO THEM OF THIS GREAT PIECE OF LITERATURE THAT YOU'RE READING TO

ME, WHO IS THE CITY MANAGER THAT ASKED YOU TO DO THIS? WE CAN GO ON

FROM THERE. LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION. HAVE YOU BEEN TO LONG

BEACH OR ISLAND PARK? THOSE ARE THE AREAS THAT ARE GOING TO BE VASTLY,

VASTLY IMPACTED BY DIGGING 80 FEET INTO THE GROUND, RUNNING HIGH-

POWER TRANSMISSION CABLES PAST THEIR HOMES. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE

YOU BEEN THERE?

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S NOT THE SUBJECT OF THIS BILL.

MR. A. BROWN: WELL, IT IS THE SUBJECT RIGHT NOW,

SO I'D LIKE AN ANSWER, PLEASE.

MS. MITAYNES: I DON'T SEE THAT THIS IS A LOCAL

ISSUE.

MR. A. BROWN: AND, MADAM SPONSOR, AND THAT'S

EXACTLY WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BE SPONSORING THE BILL BECAUSE AS WE ALL

KNOW, THIS ENTIRE BODY KNOWS, WE TAKE ON LOCAL BILLS BECAUSE WE CARE

ABOUT OUR COMMUNITIES. PEOPLE COME TO US, THEY HAVE PROBLEMS AND

QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS AND WE TAKE IT TO HEART. IT'S NOT BUSINESS, WE

TAKE IT PERSONAL BECAUSE WE CARE ABOUT OUR COMMUNITIES. THE FACT THAT

YOU CAN'T ANSWER MEANS YOU SIMPLY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE COMMUNITY

THAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO PUSH THIS EXCLUSIVELY LONG ISLAND BILL. THIS HAS

ALMOST COMPLETELY NOTHING TO DO, MR. SPEAKER, WITH THE STATE BECAUSE

THEY COULD HAVE JUST BYPASSED THE LONG ISLAND COMMUNITY. BUT AS THE

LOBBYIST THAT SAID -- THE SPONSOR IS WORKING FOR SAID THAT THEY

UNDERSTAND THAT THE DEC WOULD NOT ALLOW IT AND THEY'LL HAVE TO RUN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THROUGH LONG ISLAND.

LET'S GO TO THE NEXT --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE, WHY DO

YOU RISE?

MR. LAVINE: I RISE TO INQUIRE AS TO WHETHER MR.

BROWN WILL YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

MR. A. BROWN: I WON'T, MR. LAVINE, BUT I RESPECT

YOU FOR ASKING THE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BROWN WILL NOT

YIELD.

MR. A. BROWN: SO MADAM SPONSOR --

MS. MITAYNES: MM-HMM.

MR. A. BROWN: -- THIS IS BIG -- THIS IS A $3.2 BILLION

PROJECT. WHAT PRIVATE OR LOCAL FORUMS HAVE YOU CREATED IN -- IN YOUR

LOCAL OUTREACH TO EACH OF THE COMMUNITIES TO SEE IF THIS IS SOMETHING

THAT THE COMMUNITY ACTUALLY WANTS?

MS. MITAYNES: WE HAVE A LETTER FROM THE CITY

COUNCIL. IT'S SIGNED BY JOHN BENDO, ELIZABETH TRESTON, KAREN MCINNIS

AND TINA POSTERLI.

MR. A. BROWN: I RESPECT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT

GUESS WHAT? THEIR BOSS, THE CITY MANAGER, DIDN'T SIGN THAT, THAT'S RON

WALSH.

LET'S GO -- LET ME REPHRASE MY QUESTION AGAIN IN A

DIFFERENT WAY. WHAT LOCAL FORUMS OR FORUMS HAVE YOU CREATED IN YOUR

LOCAL OUTREACH TO THESE COMMUNITIES TO SEE IF THEY ACTUALLY WANT THIS?

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THEIR STREETS DUG UP, HIGH-POWERED LINES, SEVEN-STORY BUILDINGS GOING

UP IN FRONT OF THEM. WHAT FORUMS DID YOU DO TO COME INTO THESE

COMMUNITIES TO DO THIS? MADAM SPONSOR, THERE'S A REASON WHY

SOMEONE FROM A DIFFERENT DISTRICT 20-SOMETHING MILES AWAY WHO HAS

NO IDEA WHAT THIS COMMUNITY IS ABOUT DOESN'T SPONSOR A BILL IN

SOMEONE ELSE'S COMMUNITIES FOR THIS EXACT REASON. IT'S UNPRECEDENTED.

LET'S GO ON. I'LL ASK YOU SOME SIMPLE -- SIMPLER

QUESTIONS. HOW MANY RESIDENTS ARE THERE IN THE VILLAGE OF ISLAND

PARK? THAT'S A SIMPLE ONE BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HELPING NEW

YORK STATE RESIDENTS. HOW MANY RESIDENTS DO WE HAVE IN ISLAND PARK?

THAT'S AN EASY ONE.

MS. MITAYNES: THIS BILL IS ABOUT STATEWIDE --

MR. A. BROWN: YOU DON'T KNOW, BUT OKAY.

MS. MITAYNES: -- OFFSHORE WIND PROJECTS.

MR. A. BROWN: LET'S GET INTO THE TECHNICAL

ASPECTS, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU READ SO MANY THINGS. WHAT BODY OF WATER

WILL THE TRANSFER STATION SIT ON IN LONG BEACH? WITHOUT TURNING TO

THEM BECAUSE YOU READ IT TO ME ALREADY.

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: AGAIN, THIS BILL IS NOT ON LOCAL

ISSUES, THIS BILL IS ABOUT RENEWABLE ENERGY.

MR. A. BROWN: MADAM SPONSOR, I RESPECT WHAT

YOU'RE SAYING, BUT YOU ACTUALLY READ IT TO ME AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT

YOU EVEN READ TO ME? I CAN'T HEAR YOU THROUGH THE MASK, BUT MAYBE I

JUST COULDN'T HEAR IT. YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

REALLY? WELL, LET ME TELL YOU. IT'S --

MS. MITAYNES: IT SOUNDS LIKE I ALREADY ANSWERED

IT.

MR. A. BROWN: WHAT -- WHAT IS THEN ANSWER,

THEN? WHERE IN LONG BEACH -- WHAT BODY OF WATER DOES THE TRANSFER

STATION SIT IN? THAT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION. IT'S -- IT'S A PROJECT THAT'S GOING

TO AFFECT ALL OF NEW YORK STATE AND I CAN'T GET AN ANSWER WHERE THE

TRANSFER STATION THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THE ENTIRE PROJECT HAPPEN, YOU

CAN'T GIVE ME AN ANSWER ON THAT? WHERE'S IT GOING TO SIT? THAT IS THE

MOST BASIC QUESTION OF THIS WHOLE PROJECT.

MS. MITAYNES: REYNOLDS CHANNEL.

MR. A. BROWN: AND WHERE IS THAT?

MS. MITAYNES: IN BETWEEN LONG BEACH AND THE

MAINLAND.

MR. A. BROWN: YEAH, WELL, I'VE GOT NEWS FOR YOU

MADAM SPONSOR, IT'S ACTUALLY NOT, IT'S ACTUALLY IN ISLAND PARK. THIS IS A

SHAMEFUL, SHAMEFUL SITUATION GOING ON HERE. DO YOU HAVE THE VAGUEST

IDEA ABOUT WHERE ISLAND PARK OR LONG BEACH IS AND HOW THE

COMMUNITIES ARE IMPACTED?

MS. MITAYNES: AGAIN, THIS BILL IS NOT ABOUT A

LOCAL ISSUE, THIS IS ABOUT THE BIGGER PICTURE, WHAT THE STATE OF NEW

YORK STANDS TO GAIN.

MR. A. BROWN: SO MADAM SPONSOR, LET ME DO IT

IN YOUR VENUE, THEN. WE'LL DO THIS IN THE MORE SOCIALIST WAY.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHY AT LEAST 39 WHALES AND 37

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

DOLPHINS --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE? WAIT A

MINUTE, HOLD UP. EVERYBODY STAND AT THE SAME TIME, WE DON'T GO

ANYWHERE, ALL RIGHT? SO EVERYBODY, WE'RE GONNA TAKE IT DOWN A

MINUTE. I UNDERSTAND THE ANXIETY THAT YOU HAVE, WE GOT IT; HOWEVER,

THIS IS A PROCESS BY WE TALK TO EACH OTHER, WE DON'T --

MR. A. BROWN: MR. AUBRY --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: -- WE DON'T -- WE

DON'T ATTACK EACH OTHER, EVEN IN OUR OPPOSITION TO THE POSITION, RIGHT?

MR. A. BROWN: MR. SPEAKER, I THINK YOU'LL --

YOU'LL -- I THINK I HAVE THE REPUTATION OF BEING A GENTLEMAN. I DON'T

THINK ANY LADY OR MAN CAN SAY DIFFERENTLY. I --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AND WE WANT YOU TO

RETAIN THAT REPUTATION, SIR.

MR. A. BROWN: AND OUR MAJORITY LEADER WILL TELL

YOU WHO THE GENTLEMAN IN THIS ROOM ALWAYS IS, BUT WE HAVE

EXTENUATING -- WITH RESPECT, MR. SPEAKER, WE HAVE EXTENUATING

CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE RULES ARE BEING BREACHED, AND I SAY THAT

RESPECTFULLY TO YOU. COMMON LAW OF THIS HOUSE ARE NOT BEING

FOLLOWED, SO THINGS ARE GOING TO BE A BIT EXAGGERATED, SO YOU'LL FORGIVE

ME FOR ANY ANIMATED REMARKS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WELL, IF -- IF YOU HAVE

ANXIETY RELATIVE TO WHAT HAPPENED THEN YOU SHOULD DIRECT IT TO ME, BUT

NOT AT THE SPONSOR BECAUSE THE SPONSOR DIDN'T CREATE THE RULING THAT GOT

YOU HERE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. A. BROWN: THAT'S TRUE, BUT I DO ASK AND

REQUIRE A SPONSOR THAT BRINGS UP A BILL, MR. SPEAKER, TO BE ABLE TO

ANSWER ONE QUESTION --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: RIGHT.

MR. A. BROWN: -- JUST ONE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR ANSWERS

THE QUESTIONS AS SHE ANSWERS THEM, NOT AS YOU WANT HER TO ANSWER,

RIGHT?

MR. A. BROWN: IN LIFE, AS WE KNOW, I RAISED SEVEN

GOOD KIDS; THERE'S THE TRUTH AND THERE'S NOT THE TRUTH. SO ALL I ASK FOR,

MR. SPEAKER, IS THE TRUTH. WE CAN GO ON IF THAT'S OKAY, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AS LONG AS YOU

MAINTAIN SOME DECORUM, SIR.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN, I'LL REPHRASE THE QUESTION. CAN YOU

EXPLAIN TO US WHY AT LEAST 39 WHALES AND 37 DOLPHINS HAVE RECENTLY

BEEN FOUND DEAD OR STRANDED ON THE EAST COAST BEACHES?

MS. MITAYNES: IF YOU CAN ADDRESS ME AS

ASSEMBLYMEMBER.

MR. A. BROWN: OH. I THOUGHT MADAM SPONSOR --

THAT'S FINE. MADAM ASSEMBLYPERSON, COULD YOU PLEASE ANSWER ME WHY

-- EXPLAIN WHY AT LEAST 39 WHALES AND 37 DOLPHINS HAVE RECENTLY BEEN

FOUND DEAD OR STRANDED ON THE EAST COAST OF -- OF THE BEACHES? I WAS

THERE AND I SAW MANY OF THEM.

MS. MITAYNES: SO I CAN'T SPEAK TO THOSE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SPECIFICALLY, BUT I CAN SPEAK TO IN GENERAL. THERE'S BEEN A HUGE PUSH TO

TRY AND PRESERVE THESE SPECIES, SO THEY HAVE ACTUALLY GROWN IN

POPULATION. AND THE ONES THAT HAVE APPEARED ON SHORE THAT HAVE BEEN

EXAMINED AFTERWARDS, IT SEEMS THAT THE ISSUES ARE IMPACTS WITH VESSELS

AND NOT WITH WINDMILLS. AND I'M GETTING THIS FROM THE NOAA, AND THE

BUREAU OF OCEAN MANAGEMENT HAS STATED THERE ARE NO TIES BETWEEN

RECENT WHALE DEATH AND OFFSHORE WIND DEVELOPMENT.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM

ASSEMBLYPERSON. IN FACT, THE STUDIES HAVE ACTUALLY SHOWN THAT THE

ENERGY DEVELOPERS, THESE ENERGY DEVELOPERS, HAVE BEEN CONDUCTING

OFFSHORE WIND MAPPING SURVEYS AND THOSE SONAR EFFECTS WITH THIS

MAPPING HAS BEEN THROWING OFF THE DOLPHINS AND THEY'VE BEEN COMING

ASHORE. THAT IS A FACT, BUT WE CAN GO ON FROM THERE.

ONE LAST QUESTION, MADAM SPONSOR -- MADAM

ASSEMBLYPERSON, I'M SORRY.

MS. MITAYNES: ASSEMBLYMEMBER.

MR. A. BROWN: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO EITHER ONE

OF THE COMMUNITIES, LONG BEACH OR ISLAND PARK, AND DISCUSSED THIS

PROJECT WITH ANYBODY? JUST TO SEE --

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS BILL IS ABOUT.

MR. A. BROWN: I HEAR THAT, AND I RESPECT THAT; I

STILL WOULD LIKE AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION, PLEASE. JUST FOR THE RECORD.

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S YOUR ANSWER.

MR. A. BROWN: THAT'S MY ANSWER? OKAY. THANK

YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. A. BROWN: MR. SPEAKER, I HAVE GREAT

CONCERNS OVER THE BACKDOOR CHANNELING TO UNDERMINE RESIDENTS OF THE

20TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT. IT'S HAPPENED, IT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN IN THE

MOST CORRUPT WAYS, RIGHT UP TO THIS VERY MOMENT. MONEY IS BEING

SPREAD AROUND. THEY EVEN ENLISTED MARK RUFFALO, THE ACTOR, TO DO THEIR

BIDDING IN OUR SMALL TOWN COMMUNITIES, ISLAND PARK AND LONG BEACH.

LET ME GIVE YOU A LITTLE BACKGROUND. UNDER THE

BANNER OF THE EMPIRE WIND PROJECT, A NORWAY-BASED COMPANY,

EQUINOR SEEKS TO IMPOSE A $3.2 BILLION TWO-PART PROJECT ON TWO SMALL

RESIDENTIAL LOCAL COMMUNITIES. STATIONS HOUSING THE WIRES THAT WILL

TRANSMIT ENERGY FROM THE WIND TURBINES TO LAND WILL BE BUILT 15 TO 20

MILES OFFSHORE, A TOTAL OF 147 TURBINES, EACH 900 FEET TALL, WHICH MUCH

OF THE TURBINE COMPONENTS ARE NOT MADE IN AMERICA, WILL BE VISUALLY

APPARENT FOR ALL TO SEE AT THE SHORELINE. THIS ELECTRIFIED CABLE WOULD

ACTUALLY MAKE LANDFALL AT LONG BEACH AND TRANSVERSE 3.3 MILES ON

LAND, IN THE HEART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THROUGH A SUBSTATION IN ISLAND

PARK. THIS IS ONE OF THE THREE EQUINOR PROJECTS. ALL THE OTHERS,

INCLUDING BEACON WIND, EQUINOR'S THIRD PROJECT, HAVE THE HIGH --

HIGH-POWERED ELECTRIFIED TRANSMISSION CABLE GOING UNDERWATER. THIS

ONE SPAN -- ONE OF THEM EVEN SPANNING FROM MONTAUK ALL THE WAY TO

ASTORIA. SO OBVIOUSLY THE SHORTEST DISTANCE OF THIS ROUTE IS

INCONSEQUENTIAL AND IT DIDN'T HAVE TO GO ON LAND.

THE FACT IS THAT EQUINOR DOES NOT WANT TO DEAL WITH

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RED TAPE GOING THROUGH THE STATE WETLANDS, AND SO THEY FEEL IT'S EASIER

TO TRAMPLE ON THE RESIDENTS OF LONG BEACH AND ISLAND PARK, AND AS

EQUINOR SAID, THE CHEAPER OPTION. EQUINOR IS DISMISSIVE, AGGRESSIVE,

AND NOT LISTENING TO THE RESIDENTS OF ISLAND PARK AND LONG BEACH.

ACTUALLY, TO NO ONE EXCEPT THE INVESTORS. HOW'S THAT FOR BEING A GOOD

NEIGHBOR? AS MENTIONED MOMENTS AGO, THERE WILL BE A SEVEN-STORY

STRUCTURE - THAT'S JUST TWO STORIES LOWER THAN THE LOB - IN A RESIDENTIAL

NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS STRUCTURES NO TALLER THAN 30 FEET. DESPITE STRONG

COMMUNITY OPPOSITION, EQUINOR IGNORED THE COMMUNITY'S WISHES AND

WENT TO AN OUT-OF-TOWN BROOKLYN SENATOR AND ASSEMBLYMAN TO GET

THIS DONE TO IMPOSE THEIR WILL BY INTRODUCING BILL A.7764, IGNORING

HOME RULE. AND YOU CAN'T GET MORE HOME THAN THIS BILL.

EQUINOR HAS NOT BEEN UPFRONT OR HONEST, BY AND LARGE.

THE COMMUNITY IS IN FAVOR OF RENEWABLE ENERGY PRODUCTS IN A BIG WAY.

IT'S NOT THAT THEY DON'T LIKE THIS PROJECT, THEY JUST DON'T LIKE THE

APPROACH. THEY JUST WANT ANSWERS. THEY JUST WANT TO GIVE IT A LITTLE

TIME TO DIGEST THIS PROJECT. IT'S THE METHODOLOGY. CONGRESSMAN

D'ESPOSITO, SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK ON THE OTHER SIDE AND I HAVE

BEEN WORKING TOGETHER TO TALK WITH THE PEOPLE MOST AFFECTED BY THIS.

WE LIVE AND BREATHE THESE COMMUNITIES. MY BROOKLYN COLLEAGUES

DON'T EVEN HAVE A CLUE OF WHERE THESE TWO COMMUNITIES ARE.

YOU'RE ASKING YOURSELF, WELL, WHAT DOES THE

COMMUNITY THINK OF THIS -- THIS PROJECT? WELL, THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE

WAS SENT TO ME YESTERDAY MORNING FROM MAYOR MIKE MCGINTY OF

ISLAND PARK; YEAH, THAT'S HIS NAME. SOMEONE I ACTUALLY KNOW WELL,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SOMEONE THAT I COMMUNICATE WITH EACH AND EVERY DAY. "DEAR

ASSEMBLYMAN BROWN, ON BEHALF OF THE INCORPORATED VILLAGE OF ISLAND

PARK, ITS RESIDENTS AND THE VILLAGE BOARD, I'M WRITING AS IT RELATES TO THE

EMPIRE WIND PROJECT." I WON'T READ WORD FOR WORD BECAUSE NO ONE

WANTS TO HEAR THAT. "THE ONGOING SETTLEMENT NEGOTIATES HEARINGS

BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION AND THE PUBLIC

OUTREACH ATTEMPTS HAVE FAILED TO ADDRESS FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES AND THE

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS NECESSARY FOR THE VILLAGE OF ISLAND PARK TO

MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS AS TO THE EFFICACY OF THIS PROPOSAL."

YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT LONG BEACH, BUT HERE'S A

LETTER FROM JOHN BENDO, JUNE 9TH. THAT'S HIS THIRD SWITCH, YOU KNOW,

AND THERE'S A FOURTH AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A FIFTH COMING UP THE ROAD,

BUT, "ARI," -- HE KNOWS ME, WOW -- "I'M REQUESTING THAT YOU READ THE

BELOW MESSAGE REGARDING," -- THIS IS FROM LONG BEACH -- "MESSAGE

REGARDING THE EMPIRE WIND PROJECT TO THE STATE ASSEMBLY. IF YOU HAVE

ANY QUESTIONS, DON'T HESITATE TO CALL ME, JOHN." IT'S PERSONAL. WE DEAL

WITH OUR COMMUNITIES. "DEAR ASSEMBLYMAN BROWN, I WRITE WITH

URGENT CONCERN OVER THE EMPIRE WIND 1 AND 2 PROJECTS WHICH ARE

SLATED TO BE SITED OFF THE COAST OF LONG BEACH, AND FOR WHICH LEASES

HAVE BEEN GRANTED TO EQUINOR. AS A CITY THAT HAS BEEN IMPACTED BY

DRAMATIC EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE" -- HE TALKS ABOUT ALL THAT -- "HOW

MANY -- HOWEVER, MANY OF OUR CONSTITUENTS RAISE LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS

ABOUT THE PROJECT'S POTENTIAL IMPACT ON PUBLIC HEALTH, THE ENVIRONMENT,

MARINE LIFE, THE ECONOMY, HOME VALUES, NATIONAL SECURITY, SINCE THE

TRANSMISSION LINES FOR THIS PROJECT ARE PROPOSED TO COME ASHORE IN THE

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CITY AND TRANSVERSE UNDERGROUND ALONG THE DENSELY-POPULATED

RESIDENTIAL STREETS", AND HE ASKED ME TO PULL THE BILL. THE NEXT DAY HE

SWITCHED IT AND ANY MINUTE NOW, YOU'LL GET THE ONE PULLING IT ONCE

AGAIN. AGAIN, THE MESSAGE KEEPS MAGICALLY CHANGING.

MR. SPEAKER, THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE

COST BENEFITS. HUGE CLAIMS OF A $642 MILLION BENEFIT, BUT NONE OF THAT

IS MATERIALIZED IN ANY DISCUSSIONS. ON MAY 15TH, SEVERAL CONGRESS

PEOPLE PENNED A LETTER TO THE GAO, THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY

OFFICE, ASKING FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE IMPACTS OF OFFSHORE --

OFFSHORE WIND ACROSS THE EASTERN COASTLINE AMID CALLS FOR A MORATORIUM

ON DEVELOPMENT AND AN UPTICK IN MARINE LIFE DEATHS. THE CONGRESS

PEOPLE AUTHORED A BILL MANDATING A GAO PROBE THAT WAS PASSED AND

AMENDED TO THE LOWER ENERGY COST ACT WHICH THE HOUSE APPROVED ON

MARCH 30TH. IT'S AMAZING, CONGRESS CAN GET SOMETHING APPROVED AND

SET ASIDE AND WE CAN'T DO THAT IN 30 MINUTES IN OUR OWN ASSEMBLY.

THESE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS REQUESTED THE INVESTIGATION TO EXAMINE

THE IMPACT THAT OFFSHORE WIND DEVELOPMENT HAS ON MARINE LIFE,

INCLUDING WHALES, COMMERCIAL AND RECREATIONAL FISHING, TOURISM AND

MILITARY USE AND VESSEL CRAFT. THEY ALSO ASKED (INAUDIBLE) EXAMINE

HOW SEVERE WEATHER EVENTS MAY IMPACT WIND TURBINES. WE'RE ALWAYS

TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND CLIMATE CONTROL, LET'S LISTEN TO

CONGRESS FOR AT LEAST SOMETHING.

WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE, WITH SO MUCH REASON FOR

CAUTION AND CONCERN, THESE OFFSHORE WIND PROJECTS MUST BE AT A

MINIMUM PAUSED UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE

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CONCLUDES ITS STUDY. IN FACT, MANY OTHER LAWMAKERS AND ENVIRONMENTAL

GROUPS HAVE CALLED FOR A MORATORIUM ON OFFSHORE WIND DEVELOPMENT

AND AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE WILDLIFE DEATHS. THEN THERE'S THE

COMMUNITY BENEFIT. A $7.5 MILLION PAYMENT TO LONG BEACH AND

ISLAND PARK, AN ABSOLUTE JOKE AND SLAP IN THE FACE TO THE COMMUNITY.

MORE TO THE INSANITY, WHEN SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK AND I

QUESTIONED MOLLY MORRIS, THE PRESIDENT OF EQUINOR, LAST TUESDAY RIGHT

HERE IN THE LOB IN A MEETING ABOUT THE FINANCIAL ASPECTS OF THE

PROJECT, SHE POLITELY SAID TO US, JUST TRUST ME, ECHOED BY THAT YOUNG

MAN SITTING NEXT TO US WHO CLAIMED HE'S A BIG LOBBYIST AND WE SHOULD

JUST TRUST HIM BECAUSE HE'S A STEWARD OF THE ENVIRONMENT. SHE ALSO

STATED - AND EVERYBODY SHOULD LISTEN TO THIS - THAT THEY WERE HERE IN

ALBANY, LAST TUESDAY, TO RENEGOTIATE THE STATE CONTRACT ON THIS PROJECT

BECAUSE THEY WERE FINANCIALLY UNDERWATER, PUN INTENDED, DUE TO THE

CONSTRUCTION AND RELATED LABOR COST ESCALATION. IN OTHER WORDS, THIS IS

ALL A SHOW, WINDOW DRESSING. THEY CAN'T EVEN DO THE PROJECT.

BUT LET'S GET TO THE ISSUE AT HAND. IF THE PROJECT WAS SO

WELL-RECEIVED, IF EQUINOR WAS SO TRANSPARENT, WHY THE NEED TO SIT DOWN

WITH ME AND THE SENATOR LAST WEEK, ALL THE WHILE SCHEMING WITH

BROOKLYN POLITICIANS? TWO INDIVIDUALS, AS WE JUST REALIZED, HAVEN'T

THE VAGUEST IDEA OR FAMILIARITY WITH THE LONG ISLAND COMMUNITIES.

THEY'VE LITERALLY NEVER EVEN STEPPED FOOT INTO EITHER COMMUNITY. I'M

JUST READING PAST THE STUFF THAT GETS VERY PERSONAL, I APOLOGIZE. YOU

KNOW, THIS WOULD BE NO DIFFERENT THAN IF I WENT INTO BROOKLYN AND SAID,

YOU KNOW WHAT? I'M GOING TO PUT A 20-STORY TOWER IN DITMAS PARK, IN

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A RESIDENTIAL AREA. AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS I WOULD, OUT OF RESPECT

FOR BROOKLYN AND THE COMMUNITY, I WOULDN'T DARE DO SOMETHING LIKE

THAT.

THIS BILL IS SO LOCAL, MR. SPEAKER, THAT IT HAS METES

AND BOUNDS DESCRIPTIONS. IT DOESN'T GET MORE LOCAL THAN THAT, MR.

SPEAKER, AND WE CAN'T PRETEND IT'S NOT. METES AND BOUNDS DESCRIPTIONS

OF LONG BEACH RIGHT THERE IN THE TEXT; HOW MUCH MORE LOCAL CAN WE

GET? THIS IS A SHAMEFUL ACT BY LEGISLATORS THAT ARE OBVIOUSLY GREATLY

BENEFITTING -- AS THE LOBBYIST SAID TO ME RIGHT OUTSIDE THE DOOR -- FROM

THIS PROJECT ON THE BACKS OF MY CONSTITUENTS AND MY FELLOW

ASSEMBLYPEOPLE'S CONSTITUENTS THAT DON'T HAVE THE VAGUEST NOTION OF

WHOM OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE.

I RESPECTFULLY ASK ALL OF MY FELLOW LEGISLATORS TO

CONDEMN THIS UNPRECEDENTED AND UNHANDED MOVE AND ALLOW LOCAL

DETERMINATION BY THE RESIDENTS WHO -- AND THE PURPOSELY ELECTED PUBLIC

SERVANTS THAT ACTUALLY SERVE THE COMMUNITIES. IF YOU DON'T VOTE THIS

PIECE OF LEGISLATION DOWN, YOU'RE OPENING UP A BIG PANDORA'S BOX AND I

THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT. I PROMISE YOU, YOU WILL SEE THAT YOUR FELLOW

LADY AND FELLOW LEGISLATORS WILL BE PROPOSING LEGISLATION IN YOUR OWN

COMMUNITIES, AND IF YOU THINK, WELL, WE'LL JUST VOTE THE REPUBLICAN

BILLS DOWN, I GOTTA TELL YOU, I'VE SEEN YOU GUYS EAT YOUR OWN. THEY'RE

COMING AFTER YOU GUYS. DON'T FORGET, IT WAS JUST A WEEK AGO, A FEW

WEEKS AGO TODAY THAT I GAVE A SPEECH RIGHT AT THE MILLION DOLLAR

STAIRCASE, AND I SAID, BY THE SAME LEGISLATOR THAT'S PROPOSING THE NOT ON

MY DIME BILL, THEY'RE JUST USING JEWS AS THE OPENING SALVO. THEY'RE

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GOING AFTER YOU GUYS. WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS IS COMING FROM?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE, WHY DO

YOU RISE?

MR. LAVINE: THIS BILL HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO

WITH ANY OTHER PIECES OF LEGISLATION, NOR IS THIS BILL IN ANY WAY

ANTI-JEWISH. AND I WOULD URGE YOU TO CAUTION THIS -- THE PERSON WHO IS

SPEAKING NOW TO KEEP THAT IN MIND AND TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE ACTUAL

BILL ITSELF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR.

LAVINE.

MR. A. BROWN: I RESPECT MY COLLEAGUE AND I LIKE

HIM VERY MUCH --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

MR. A. BROWN: -- BUT HE HAPPENS TO ONCE AGAIN BE

INCORRECT, BUT I'LL HEED HIS ADVICE AS MUCH AS IT'S WORTH. THANK YOU,

MR. LAVINE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, BOTH.

MR. A. BROWN: HOW IRONIC THAT I STAND BEFORE YOU

ASKING MY COLLEAGUES TO ALLOW THIS COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT. I'LL

REMIND EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU THAT WE ALL JUST PASSED LAST WEEK

ASSEMBLY BILL A.2888 BY MY -- MY ESTEEMED COLLEAGUE,

ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT. IT READS, "IN ADDITION TO THE AUTHORITY'S

PROCUREMENT PROGRAMS AND IMPROVED STATE PERMITTING PROCESS,

RENEWABLE ENERGY PROJECTS REQUIRE COLLABORATION BETWEEN HOST

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COMMUNITIES AND RENEWABLE ENERGY DEVELOPERS IN ORDER TO BE

SUCCESSFULLY AND APPROPRIATELY SITED AND CONSTRUCTED." AT LEAST LET'S

ABIDE BY THE RULES. WE DON'T WANT TO DO WHAT'S HISTORIC, I GET IT, MR.

SPEAKER. BUT HOW ABOUT THE STUFF WE DID LAST WEEK? WE JUST

APPROVED 2 -- 2888, WE JUST DID THAT BILL LAST WEEK. SO LET'S AT LEAST

ABIDE BY THE BILL WE JUST PASSED?

AGAIN, WE ARE ALL CONCEPTUALLY IN FAVOR OF THIS PROJECT,

BUT WE MUST -- QUESTIONS MUST BE ANSWERED. THIS PROJECT CANNOT BE

HIJACKED BY AN OUTSIDE SPONSOR. FOR THIS REASON, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL BE

VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. MITAYNES, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MS. MITAYNES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. RA: THANK YOU. SO JUST WITH REGARD TO THE

PARKLAND ALIENATION PROVISIONS IN THIS BILL. SO YOU SAY IT'S A STATEWIDE

BILL, BUT LET'S START THERE. ARE THERE ANY OTHER PARKLAND ALIENATION

PROVISIONS OTHER THAN THE ONE SPECIFIC TO -- TO LONG BEACH AND -- AND

THIS SPECIFIC WIND PROJECT?

MS. MITAYNES: THE BILL DOES NOT CHANGE THE

PERMITTING PROCESS. THE COMMUNITY WILL HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS BEFORE

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THIS BILL AS THEY DO AFTER. THE BILL DOES CONTAIN A PARKLAND ALIENATION,

BUT THAT SIMPLY AUTHORIZES THE CITY OF LONG BEACH TO ALIENATE THE LAND.

IT DOES NOT REQUIRE THEM TO DO SO.

MR. RA: OKAY, BUT MY QUESTION IS, THERE IS ONLY ONE

PARKLAND ALIENATION, CORRECT? THERE'S NOT ONES IN OTHER PARTS OF THE

STATE OR OTHER DISTRICTS OR ANYWHERE ELSE, THERE'S JUST THE ONE.

MS. MITAYNES: THE REST OF THE BILL HAS TO DO WITH

OFFSHORE WIND.

MR. RA: AGREED. I'M ASKING, ARE THERE -- IS THERE

MORE THAN ONE PARKLAND ALIENATION IN THIS BILL?

MS. MITAYNES: NO.

MR. RA: OKAY. WITH REGARD TO THAT PARKLAND

ALIENATION, IF ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE EVER HAD TO CARRY A BILL FOR

PARKLAND ALIENATION, WE HAVE A PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE PROCESS WE HAVE

TO GO THROUGH, INCLUDING, I WOULD NOTE, AND I KNOW THAT THIS -- THIS

ISSUE WAS DEALT WITH EARLIER, BUT INCLUDING HOME RULE. AND -- AND I

WOULD NOTE THAT I DID A QUICK SEARCH EARLIER AND I FOUND WE'VE PASSED

AT LEAST EIGHT BILLS THIS SESSION FOR PARKLAND ALIENATION; EACH ONE

CARRIED A HOME RULE REQUEST, THIS ONE DOES NOT. BUT REGARDING THE

PROCESS OF HOME RULE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS DONE FOR PARKLAND

ALIENATION IS CONSULTING THE NEW YORK PARKS DEPARTMENT. THERE'S A

HANDBOOK, ACTUALLY, ON ALIENATION. SO HAS ANY CONSULTATION BEEN DONE

WITH STATE PARKS AS REQUIRED IN THAT HANDBOOK REGARDING THIS BILL?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS ISN'T A PARKLAND ALIENATION,

IT'S A STATEWIDE BILL.

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MR. RA: OKAY, BUT THERE'S A PARKLAND ALIENATION IN

THIS BILL WHERE -- WE AGREE ON THAT POINT, CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: YES.

MR. RA: SO HAS ANY CONSULTATION BEEN DONE WITH

STATE PARKS RELATED TO THAT PARKLAND ALIENATION?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS IS CONFORMING TO A PARKLAND

ALIENATION.

MR. RA: SO IS THAT A NO OR A YES? HAS ANY

CONSULTATION BEEN DONE WITH STATE PARKS?

MS. MITAYNES: THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT TO CHECK

WITH PARKS.

MR. RA: WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE ON THAT POINT, BUT

I'M ASKING HAS ANY CONSULTATION BEEN DONE WITH PARKS, REGARDLESS OF

WHETHER IT'S REQUIRED OR NOT? I THINK WE DO A LOT OF THINGS ON BILLS THAT

AREN'T NECESSARILY LEGALLY REQUIRED.

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: THIS IS A STATEWIDE BILL.

MR. RA: SO YOU -- YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHETHER OR NOT

THERE HAS BEEN CONSULTATION WITH STATE PARKS?

MS. MITAYNES: THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT TO DO SO.

MR. RA: MY QUESTION ISN'T IF THERE IS A REQUIREMENT,

MY QUESTION IS HAS ANY CONSULTATION BEEN DONE? THAT IS VERY DIRECTLY

RELATED TO THIS BILL. IT'S, I THINK, A PRETTY SIMPLE QUESTION.

MS. MITAYNES: THIS IS TREATED IN THE SAME MANNER

AS OTHER PARKLAND.

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MR. RA: I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT?

MS. MITAYNES: CONSULTATION IS NOT REQUIRED.

MR. RA: OKAY, BUT I'M NOT SAYING WHETHER A

CONSULTATION IS REQUIRED OR NOT, I'M ASKING IF THERE HAS BEEN

CONSULTATION?

MS. MITAYNES: AND WE ARE SAYING THAT WE ARE

DOING THE SAME THING FOR THIS COMPONENT OF THE BILL.

MR. RA: OKAY. I -- I DON'T THINK I'M OBVIOUSLY

GOING TO GET AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.

ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS IN THE HANDBOOK SAYS THAT

SEQR REVIEW SHOULD BE CONDUCTED FIRST. HAS A SEQR REVIEW ON THIS

PROJECT BEEN -- BEEN DONE YET? HAS THAT BEEN COMPLETED?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: THIS BILL IS NOT ABOUT THAT. THIS IS

ABOUT THE LARGER PICTURE OF NEW YORK STATE BEING THE LEADER IN OFFSHORE

WIND.

MR. RA: BUT DO YOU KNOW IF THE SEQR PROCESS ON

THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN DONE YET?

MS. MITAYNES: YES. THERE'S ONE ASSOCIATED WITH

THE LARGER PROJECT.

MR. RA: IS IT COMPLETED OR IS IT IN PROCESS?

MS. MITAYNES: IN PROCESS.

MR. RA: SO IT HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED.

MS. MITAYNES: IT'S IN PROCESS.

MR. RA: OKAY. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THE

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HANDBOOK SAYS IS TO CONSULT YOUR LOCAL REPRESENTATIVE. HAS THAT

CONSULTATION TAKEN PLACE WITH LOCAL REPRESENTATIVES OF -- OF THE

ASSOCIATED CITY AND -- AND VILLAGES?

MS. MITAYNES: THE LONG BEACH CITY COUNCIL

HAS -- HAS STATED THEIR SUPPORT FOR THIS.

MR. RA: SO REGARDING THE PARKLAND ALIENATION,

REGARDLESS OF THE SCOPE OF THIS BILL IN TOTALITY, IT STILL DOES A PARKLAND

ALIENATION AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT NORMALLY IS IN A PARKLAND

ALIENATION IS SOME REPLACEMENT OF THE LOST PARKLAND. USUALLY THERE'S

SOME TYPE OF SWAP WHEN A MUNICIPALITY REPLACES IT WITH, YOU KNOW, A

LIKE-SIZE PIECE OF PROPERTY. IS THERE ANY TYPE OF SWAP IN THIS BILL TO

REPLACE THE LOST PARKLAND?

MS. MITAYNES: REPLACEMENT IS NOT REQUIRED.

THIS BILL IS CONFORMING AND -- AND REQUIRES A PAYMENT OF FAIR MARKET

VALUE.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND WHO -- WHO WILL BE PAYING THAT

FAIR MARKET VALUE TO THE CITY OF LONG BEACH?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: THE ENTITY RECEIVING THE EASEMENT.

MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. THE OTHER THINGS I WANT

TO TALK ABOUT IS JUST THE SCOPE OF THIS PROJECT ITSELF. I KNOW THERE ARE --

AS ANY OF US CAN IMAGINE, THIS IS A MASSIVE PROJECT, RIGHT? THERE A LOT

OF APPROVALS THAT THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH FEDERALLY AND OTHERWISE,

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK MY COLLEAGUE WOULD -- WOULD, I THINK, CLEARLY

AGREE THAT WE'RE PUSHING THIS FORWARD WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT

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STILL NEED TO BE TAKEN CARE OF BEFORE SOMETHING LIKE THIS MOVES

FORWARD. NOW, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT JUST DAYS A COUPLE DAYS AGO

THE ENTITY WHO IS GOING TO BE ENGAGING THIS PROJECT FILED A PETITION WITH

THE PSC SAYING THEY NEED MORE MONEY TO COMPLETE THE PROJECT. SO

WHY THE RUSH TO DO THE PARKLAND ALIENATION NOW IF WE DON'T EVEN KNOW

WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE CAPITAL TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE

PROJECT?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS IS JUST SIMPLY TO AUTHORIZE A

LOCAL MUNICIPALITY TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

MR. RA: OKAY. DO WE KNOW WHAT THE SCHEDULE IS IN

TERMS OF CONSTRUCTION OF THIS PROJECT?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: THEY'RE IN THE PERMITTING STAGES.

MR. RA: OKAY. ONE OF THE REASONS I ASK IS, IF

ANYBODY HAS EVER BEEN TO THESE COMMUNITIES, THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL, REALLY

BEACH-FRONT COMMUNITIES WHO OBVIOUSLY COULD BE VERY IMPACTED

ECONOMICALLY BY DISRUPTIONS, IN PARTICULAR IN THE SUMMERTIME WHEN A

LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING DOWN THERE AND -- AND GOING ON THE BOARDWALKS

AND VISITING RESTAURANTS AND -- AND, YOU KNOW, ENGAGING IN -- IN ALL THE

ACTIVITIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE THERE. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS

IMPORTANT FOR US TO KEEP IN MIND.

NOW, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THIS OVERALL PROJECT IS

STILL AWAITING FEDERAL ENVIRONMENTAL APPROVAL THROUGH THE BUREAU OF

OCEAN ENERGY MANAGEMENT, AND THAT APPROVAL COULD END UP ALTERING

THE ROUTE OF THE PROJECT, MAYBE SIGNIFICANTLY. SO IF THAT WERE TO OCCUR,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

WOULDN'T THE PROPERTY, PERHAPS, CHANGE THAT WE NEED TO ALIENATE?

MS. MITAYNES: SO THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS BILL IS

ABOUT.

MR. RA: OKAY, BUT IF WE WERE TO -- IF THEY WERE TO

COME BACK WITH AN APPROVAL THAT IN SOME WAY SIGNIFICANTLY ALTERS THIS,

I WOULD ASSUME THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY MIGHT NOT CONFORM TO WHAT THEY

NEED TO DO, IN WHICH CASE DO YOU BELIEVE WE WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK

AND DO ANOTHER PARKLAND ALIENATION?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS IS AN AUTHORIZATION, THAT'S IT.

MR. RA: OKAY. AS WELL, THERE'S AN ARTICLE VII

PROCESS PENDING AT THE STATE LEVEL WHICH COULD ALSO CHANGE THE ROUTE.

SO AGAIN, WHY ARE WE DOING THE ALIENATION NOW WHEN THERE COULD BE

CHANGES THAT MATERIALLY WOULD MAKE THIS PARKLAND ALIENATION NOT ABLE

TO MAKE THE PROJECT MOVE FORWARD?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: WITHOUT THE PASSAGE OF THIS BILL

THIS SESSION, IN PARTICULAR, THE EMPIRE 1 AND 2 PROJECT WILL NOT STAY ON

ITS TIMELINE, JEOPARDIZING NOT ONLY THE CRITICAL INITIATIVE, BUT ALSO

CREATING A DOMINO EFFECT DELAYING AND POTENTIALLY DERAILING OTHER

CRUCIAL PROJECTS CURRENTLY IN THE PIPELINE.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND WITH REGARD TO THE ROUTE OF, YOU

KNOW, THESE CABLES AND EASEMENTS, THE -- THE ROUTE AS CURRENTLY

CONTEMPLATED CAUSES DISRUPTION TO MULTIPLE BUSINESSES. IN COMING UP

WITH THIS PARKLAND ALIENATION, HAVE WE CONSIDERED ANY LESS INTRUSIVE

ALTERNATIVES TO THE ROUTE THAT THIS WILL UTILIZE?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS BILL.

MR. RA: HAS AN ENVIRONMENTAL STUDY BEEN

CONDUCTED REGARDING THE ROUTE? MY UNDERSTANDING IS ONE OF THE THINGS

THEY'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH IS A COSTCO PARKING LOT, WHICH IS A CAPPED

BROWNFIELD, WHICH IS A SUPERFUND SITE. WHICH, AGAIN, GIVES -- I WOULD

THINK SHOULD GIVE PAUSE THAT OPENING THAT UP COULD CAUSE

ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS ON THE LOCAL COMMUNITY. SO AGAIN, HAVE YOU

CONSIDERED ALTERNATE ROUTES FOR THESE CABLES TO BE LAID?

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S A PART OF THE PERMITTING

PROCESS, IT'S NOT PART OF THIS BILL.

MR. RA: THANK -- THANK YOU, ASSEMBLYMEMBER.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. RA: SO I -- I JUST WANT TO REALLY SAY, NUMBER

ONE, BACK TO WHERE WE STARTED, THE HOME RULE ISSUE. THERE WAS A

PRIOR VERSION WHICH HAD HOME RULE, EVERYTHING WE'VE PASSED IN THIS

SESSION AND ANY PRIOR SESSION I CAN RECALL ABOUT A PARKLAND ALIENATION

REQUIRED HOME RULE. AND I'M SURE ANY -- ANY OF US WHO'S EVER HAD TO

GET HOME RULE FOR ANYTHING KNOWS HOW TECHNICAL THAT PROCESS IS. IF

IT'S -- IF IT'S PRINTED ON THE WRONG SIZE PIECE OF PAPER, IT'S NO GOOD. IF A

BILL GETS AMENDED, YOU HAVE TO GET A NEW ONE; YET, HERE WE ARE DOING A

BILL THAT HAS A PARKLAND ALIENATION, AND WE CAN CALL IT A STATEWIDE BILL

ALL WE WANT. IT HAS ONE PARKLAND ALIENATION. THERE'S NOT THREE OF THEM,

THERE'S NOT FIVE OF THEM, THERE'S NOT TEN OF THEM, THERE'S ONE. AND IF

YOU COULD JUST APPEND STATEWIDE PROVISIONS TO ANY BILL WITH PARKLAND

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ALIENATION AND RENDER THE HOME RULE PROCESS AND THOSE PROVISIONS OF

OUR CONSTITUTION MOOT, THEN THEY'D BE IRRELEVANT BECAUSE YOU COULD DO

THAT -- YOU COULD DO THAT FOR ANYTHING. YOU WOULD NEVER NEED -- YOU

WOULD NEVER NEED HOME RULE.

THERE ARE TEN SECTIONS IN THIS BILL. ONE OF THEM IS -- IS

REALLY JUST A TITLE; ONE OF THEM IS LEGISLATIVE INTENT; THE LAST ONE DEALS

WITH THE EFFECTIVE DATE. SO REALLY, THERE ARE SEVEN SECTIONS THAT

ACTUALLY HAVE SUBSTANCE TO THEM; FOUR OF THEM DEAL SOLELY WITH THIS

PARKLAND ALIENATION IN THE CITY OF LONG BEACH. SO WE CAN PRETEND THAT

THIS IS NOT A LOCAL BILL, WE CAN PRETEND THAT THIS ISN'T A PARKLAND

ALIENATION BILL, BUT I THINK WE ALL KNOW WHAT THIS BILL IS.

THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK WE ALL NEED TO KEEP IN

MIND IS THAT ANY OF US WHO HAVE TO CARRY BILLS RELATING TO OUR LOCAL

COMMUNITY, GO OUT, WE TALK TO OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, WE TALK

TO THE RESIDENTS. WE DON'T INTRODUCE BILLS, YOU KNOW, ON A WHIM. WE

HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS. IT'S JUST AS EASY -- AND THIS IS WHAT I WOULD

CAUTION EVERYBODY AS YOU'RE VOTING ON THIS -- IT IS JUST AS EASY FOR

ANOTHER BILL TO COME FORWARD THAT DOES SOMETHING IN YOUR DISTRICT AS IT

DOES IN THIS ONE. SO WE REALLY NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW, I WOULD SAY,

UNPRECEDENTED THIS IS. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT IN THE TIME THAT

I'VE BEEN HERE, I'VE BEEN HERE 13 YEARS. AND AGAIN, EVERY SINGLE TIME

I'VE SEEN A PARKLAND ALIENATION BILL, IT'S BEEN PROPOSED BY THE

REPRESENTATIVE OF A COMMUNITY WITH THE SUPPORT OF -- OF -- OF THAT

COMMUNITY AND WITH HOME RULE FROM THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT WHO'S

GOING TO BE IMPACTED BY THE PARKLAND ALIENATION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

NOW, THIS BILL, AGAIN, WITH REGARD TO THE PARKLAND, ALL

RIGHT, IT SAYS THAT THE AUTHORIZATION IN SECTION 5, JUST GOING BACK TO JUST

TO CLEAN UP A LITTLE WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, THE AUTHORIZATION

CONTAINED IN SECTION 4 OF THIS ACT SHALL ONLY BE EFFECTIVE ON THE

CONDITION THAT THE CITY OF LONG BEACH DEDICATED AN AMOUNT EQUAL TO OR

GREATER THAN FAIR MARKET VALUE OF THE PARKLANDS BEING ALIENATED. WE DO

THIS EVERY TIME THERE'S A PARKLAND, YOU HAVE TO HAVE LIKE PROPERTY.

THIS CONTEMPLATES SOME PAYMENT, BUT THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN SO MANY

OTHER BILLS THAT WE HAVE SEEN BECAUSE IT IS COMING FROM OUTSIDE THIS

DISTRICT, OUTSIDE THIS COMMUNITY THAT IS GOING TO BE DIRECTLY IMPACTED.

AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN ALL THINK ABOUT THAT AS WE'RE VOTING BECAUSE

AGAIN, THERE COULD BE A BILL TOMORROW THAT ALIENATES PARKLAND IN ANY

ONE OF OUR DISTRICTS, AND I WOULD DARESAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE HAPPY IF

THAT HAPPENS TO US.

SO I WOULD URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO THINK ABOUT THAT AS

-- AS THEY'RE VOTING ON THIS BILL AND THE UNPRECEDENTED NATURE OF THIS.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. SOLAGES.

ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

MS. SOLAGES: SO EVERYONE KNOWS HERE I'M A

NATIVE LONG ISLANDER, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE ACCENT. DON'T ASK ME TO

SAY WATER OR COFFEE, IT'S TERRIBLE. I HAD MANY OPTIONS TO LEAVE LONG

ISLAND, BUT I'VE ALWAYS STAYED. IT'S MY HOME. AND IF YOU GO TO MY

OFFICE RIGHT NOW IN THE LOB, YOU'LL SEE A PIECE OF THE LONG BEACH

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

BOARDWALK. I VIVIDLY REMEMBER THAT LATE OCTOBER IN 2012, STANDING ON

THE SHORES, BECAUSE I -- I DO A LITTLE THING; WHENEVER A HURRICANE COMES,

I GO TO LONG BEACH AND I SEE THE IMPACTS THAT ARE HAPPENING TO OUR

COMMUNITY. AND SO WHEN PEOPLE STAND HERE AND THEY SAY THIS IS A

LOCAL BILL, IT'S NOT, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE

IMPACTS EVERY SINGLE NEW YORKER THAT WE SEE HERE. AND SO WE TALK

ABOUT THE DOMINO EFFECT, AND I REALLY -- I REMEMBER THAT DAY OF

HURRICANE SANDY, THAT DOMINO EFFECT WHEN THE WINDS AND THE WATER

CAME, WHEN THE ELECTRICITY WAS OUT. I REMEMBER THAT DOMINO EFFECT. I

REMEMBER GOING DOWN TO LONG BEACH AND SEEING MY FRIENDS -- AND A

LITTLE TIDBIT, I ACTUALLY WAS MARRIED IN LONG BEACH, SO TO ME, LONG

BEACH IS LIKE A SECOND HOME -- AND HELPING PEOPLE DIG OUT OF LONG

BEACH. BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL.

AND SO WHEN WE STAND HERE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A BILL OF CRITICAL

IMPORTANCE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TRANSITION FROM FOSSIL FUELS DOWN

TO RENEWABLES. AND THIS IS NOT ABOUT A PERSON'S DISTRICT. EVEN THOUGH I

RESPECT HOME RULE AND LOCAL CONTROL, THIS IS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT

WE HAVE ENERGY INDEPENDENCE FOR NEW YORK STATE. AND AS WE FACE

THE CHALLENGES OF THE 21ST CENTURY, IT'S EVIDENT THAT EMBRACING

RENEWABLE ENERGY AND PARTICULARLY HARNESSING THE POWER OF WIND, IS

NOT JUST AN OPTION, BUT IT'S IMPERATIVE FOR SUSTAINABLE AND A PROSPEROUS

FUTURE FOR OUR REGION. AND I KNOW, AS I SAID, I'M FROM LONG ISLAND, I

SEE IT EVERY DAY THE IMPACTS OF A BARRIER ISLAND THAT WE LIVE ON,

ESPECIALLY IN LONG BEACH AND ISLAND PARK. BECAUSE I KNOW VERY WELL,

I KNOW MY COLLEAGUE WAS MENTIONING, DO YOU KNOW ABOUT LONG

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

BEACH, DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ISLAND PARK? I WAS JUST THERE ON MONDAY

AND SUNDAY. I DRIVE THROUGH THOSE AREAS AND I SEE THE FLOODING THAT

HAPPENS EVEN IN LIGHT RAIN AND LIGHT -- LIGHT WIND.

AND SO WE TALK ABOUT HOW TO COMBAT THAT CLIMATE

CHANGE, I VIVIDLY REMEMBER THE WORKING MEN AND WOMEN STRUGGLING

WHILE THEY ARE GOING THROUGH THIS TRIAL AND TRIBULATION OF STORM, BUT

ALWAYS SAYING THAT WE NEED TO DO BETTER IN OUR SOCIETY. SO WHEN WE

TALK ABOUT THIS PROJECT, IT'S REALLY, WE -- WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BILL, WE'RE

JUST GIVING THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT AN OPTION TO NEGOTIATE WITH EQUINOR.

THIS IS NOT AN END-ALL, THIS IS NOT US SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAVING THE

PROJECT TODAY. THIS IS JUST AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO ENGAGE IN A

CONVERSATION ABOUT OUR FUTURE, OUR STATE. AND MOREOVER, WHEN WE'RE

EMBRACING WIND ENERGY, WE ARE EMBRACING THE ENERGY INDEPENDENCE

AND SECURITY. LONG ISLAND, MUCH LIKE THE UNITED STATES, RELIES HEAVILY

ON IMPORTING FOSSIL FUELS, LEAVING US VULNERABLE TO PRICE FLUCTUATIONS

AND GEOPOLITICAL TENSIONS. BY TAPPING INTO OUR VAST RESOURCES OF WIND

-- OUR WIND RESOURCES, WE'RE DIVERSIFYING OUR ENERGY SOURCES AND WE'RE

REDUCING OUR RELIANCE ON THE UNSTABLE AND FINITE RESOURCE OF FOSSIL

FUELS. WIND ENERGY IS GOING TO EMPOWER US TO BE -- EMPOWER US TO BE

SELF-RELIANT AND PROVIDE US WITH A CLEAN, SUSTAINABLE DOMESTIC SOURCE OF

POWER. WE CAN GET INTO THE POLITICS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE LOCALS --

IN THE LOCAL AREAS OF SOUTHWESTERN NASSAU COUNTY, BUT WE REALLY NEED

TO PUT POLITICS ASIDE. WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT OUR COUNTRY AND OUR STATE

AND OUR FUTURE. AND THIS BILL DOES THAT. THIS TRANSITION TO WIND ENERGY

IS NOT JUST A MATTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP, BUT IT'S AN

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OPPORTUNITY FOR ECONOMIC GROWTH AND JOB CREATION. AND WE SAID

BEFORE, WHO'S SUPPORTING THIS? WE HAVE UNIONS, CSEA, LONG BEACH

UNIT 7569 SUPPORTING IT, WE HAVE THE BUILDING TRADES UNIT, THE

BUILDING CONSTRUCTION UNIT. WE HAVE A LOT OF LOCAL SUPPORT. WE HAVE

THE CITIZENS CAMPAIGN FOR ENVIRONMENTAL [SIC] RUN BY A LONG ISLANDER.

WE HAVE A LONG ISLAND ASSOCIATION. WE HAVE SO MANY ENTITIES AND,

YOU KNOW, MY TIME IS LIMITED, BUT I CAN GO ABOUT HOW MANY LONG

ISLANDERS ARE SUPPORTING THIS BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE OF LONG

ISLAND. THE DEVELOPMENT OF WIND FARMS WILL SPUR LOCAL INVESTMENT, IT

WILL ATTRACT BUSINESSES. IT WILL REDUCE OUR -- OUR ENERGY COSTS, IT WILL

PROVIDE DEVELOPMENT, MANUFACTURING AND -- AND SO MUCH MORE. THIS

WILL CREATE A MAGNITUDE OF SKILLED WORKERS AND RESIDENTS THAT WILL

REVITALIZE OUR ECONOMY. AND FURTHERMORE, THE WIND ENERGY PRODUCT

WILL PROVIDE INCOME TO LANDOWNERS WHO LEASE LAND TURBINES.

SO IN CONCLUSION, THIS BILL DOES NOT END THE

CONVERSATION, THIS BILL WILL EMPOWER THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO

NEGOTIATE AT THE TABLE. AND I KNOW I WILL NOW BE WATCHING WHAT'S

GOING ON. AND EVEN FOR EQUINOR, I REALLY ENCOURAGE THEM TO COME IN

GOOD FAITH. IF THE COMMUNITY BENEFIT PACKAGE IS NOT SUFFICIENT, WE'LL

COME BACK TO THE TABLE BECAUSE WE'RE WATCHING HERE IN THE STATE

LEGISLATURE. BUT WE CANNOT JUST DELAY, BECAUSE AS I SAID, THE DOMINO

EFFECT THAT WILL HAPPEN. WITHOUT PASSAGE OF THIS BILL, EMPIRE WIND 2

PROJECT WILL NOT BE ON A TIMELINE, WHICH WILL JEOPARDIZE NOT ONLY THE

CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT ALSO CREATE A DOMINO EFFECT THAT WILL DELAY

OTHER PROJECTS IN THE PIPELINE LIKE EMPIRE 1, LIKE THE SOUTH BROOKLYN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MARINE TERMINAL AND BEACON 1, AND EVEN PROJECTS RIGHT HERE IN

ALBANY.

MY COLLEAGUES, WE HAVE TO PUT POLITICS ASIDE,

ESPECIALLY FOR LONG ISLAND. AND SO I STAND HERE ASKING MY COLLEAGUES

TO SUPPORT THIS INITIATIVE FROM A LONG ISLANDER. FROM SOMEONE WHO

LOVES LONG BEACH, ISLAND PARK AND THE 22ND ASSEMBLY DISTRICT. SO WE

STAND HERE WITH AN OPPORTUNITY TO GROW NEW YORK STATE. AND I AM

REALLY -- AGAIN, I ENCOURAGE ALL PEOPLE TO COME TO THE TABLE AND TO LOOK

AT THE BIGGER PICTURE. BUT WE CANNOT LET POLITICS DERAIL US.

SO WITH THAT, I YIELD BACK MY TIME. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: MR. GRAY.

MR. GRAY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

MS. MITAYNES: YES.

MR. GRAY: THANK YOU, MADAM ASSEMBLYWOM --

MEMBER, EXCUSE ME. SO YOU CLAIM THIS IS -- THIS DEALS WITH THE CITY OF

LONG BEACH BUT IT'S NOT A LOCAL BILL; IS THAT CORRECT? NOT A HOME RULE

BILL?

MS. MITAYNES: I'M SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU. IF YOU

CAN SPEAK UP, PLEASE?

MR. GRAY: YES. SO THIS DEALS WITH THE CITY OF

LONG BEACH, BUT IT -- BUT YOU CLAIM IT'S NOT A HOME RULE BILL, IT'S NOT A

LOCAL BILL; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS IS A STATEWIDE ISSUE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. GRAY: OKAY. WHAT MAKES IT A STATEWIDE BILL?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: THE NEW YORK STATE ENERGY

RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, NYSERDA, IN CONSULTATION

WITH THE NEW YORK STATE INDEPENDENT SYSTEM OPERATOR AND THE PUBLIC

SERVICE COMMISSION, TO ESTABLISH A PLAN FOR IMPROVED TRANSMISSIONAL

PLANNING AND COORDINATION SYSTEMS FOR AN OFFSHORE GRID. REQUIRE

NYSERDA TO OVERSEE PROCUREMENT FOR INDEPENDENT TRANSMISSION

SYSTEMS RELATED TO OFFSHORE WIND PROJECTS, AND INCLUDE

RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE PLAN. SUCH RECOMMENDATIONS SHALL CONSIDER

COMMUNITY PROTECTION, IMPACTS ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND LOCAL

MUNICIPALITIES, AND OPPORTUNITIES TO STREAMLINE THE PROCESS FOR

TRANSMISSION PLANNING.

MR. GRAY: OKAY.

MS. MITAYNES: REQUIRE NYSERDA, IN

CONSULTATION WITH OTHER STATE AGENCIES, TO CONDUCT A BENEFIT COST-

ANALYSIS AND RATEPAYER IMPACT STUDY TO DETERMINE THE OVERALL COST OF

IMPLEMENTING PLANNED TRANSMISSION FOR AN OFFSHORE GRID.

MR. GRAY: OKAY.

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S WHY IT'S STATEWIDE.

MR. GRAY: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO LET

ME JUST GO THROUGH SOME AREAS HERE, AND YOU CAN TELL ME IF THEY ARE IN

THE PLANS FOR THE OFFSHORE STATEWIDE GRID. LAKE CHAMPLAIN, YES OR NO?

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S NOT IN THE BILL.

MR. GRAY: YEAH, BUT YOU'RE SAYING THIS IS A

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STATEWIDE BILL BECAUSE IT'S THE OFFSHORE GRID. SO I'M GOING TO GO

THROUGH SOME OFFSHORE AREAS AND I WANTED YOU TO TELL ME IF THEY'RE A

PART OF THIS -- IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE IN THE FORECAST OF THIS BILL. LAKE

CHAMPLAIN? YES OR NO?

MS. MITAYNES: NYSERDA --

MR. GRAY: NO, JUST -- ALL I NEED IS A YES OR NO.

LAKE CHAMPLAIN, PLEASE?

MS. MITAYNES: NYSERDA HAS CERTAIN STATEWIDE

REQUIREMENTS.

MR. GRAY: OKAY. SO -- SO IT'S YES OR NO. LAKE

CHAMPLAIN?

MS. MITAYNES: YOU DON'T GET TO TELL ME HOW TO

ANSWER.

MR. GRAY: OKAY. LAKE ONTARIO?

MS. MITAYNES: NYSERDA HAS REQUIREMENTS.

MR. GRAY: OKAY. ONEIDA LAKE?

MS. MITAYNES: NYSERDA HAS REQUIREMENTS.

MR. GRAY: LAKE GEORGE?

MS. MITAYNES: NYSERDA HAS REQUIREMENTS.

MR. GRAY: SENECA, SKANEATELES, ANY OF THE FINGER

LAKES?

MS. MITAYNES: ANY OFFSHORE WIND.

MR. GRAY: OKAY. HOW ABOUT INLAND? IF WE'RE

TAKING PARKLAND, HOW ABOUT INLAND? LET'S GO TO THE CATSKILLS OR THE

ADIRONDACKS.

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MS. MITAYNES: THIS IS ABOUT OFFSHORE.

MR. GRAY: OKAY, BUT IT'S TAKING OF PARKLAND, RIGHT,

AND -- AND IT'S STATEWIDE. SO TAKING OF PARKLAND IS JUST THAT; IS THAT

CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: IT'S NOT TAKING PARKLAND, IT'S

AUTHORIZING LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES TO DECIDE.

MR. GRAY: OKAY. SO ARE WE LIMITING JUST TO THIS,

THE CITY OF LONG BEACH, OR IS THE PLAN TO GO OUT -- BECAUSE EARLIER IN

THE BUDGET THIS YEAR WE APPROVED NYPA TO OWN AND OPERATE

THROUGHOUT NEW YORK STATE, RENEWABLE PROJECTS BEYOND WHAT THEY DO

RIGHT NOW IN HYDRO, WHICH WOULD BE SOLAR, WIND AND THINGS ALONG THAT

LINE, CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS ESTABLISHES AN OFFSHORE

PLANNING PROCESS.

MR. GRAY: OKAY. SO LET'S GO BACK THROUGH SOME

OFFSHORE BESIDES LONG BEACH, BECAUSE THIS IS BROADER THAN LONG BEACH

BECAUSE IT'S NOT -- IT IS -- IT IS A STATEWIDE BILL, CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: ANY OFFSHORE WIND.

MR. GRAY: OKAY. SO LET ME GO BACK THROUGH THE

LIST AGAIN. LAKE CHAMPLAIN?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: ANY OFFSHORE WINDS.

MR. GRAY: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I

APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: MR. GRAY, ON THE BILL?

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MR. GRAY: YES. SO IT'S DEFINITELY NOT CLEAR

WHETHER THIS IS A LOCAL BILL OR A STATEWIDE BILL. AND I WOULD ASK ANY

MEMBERS THAT I'VE JUST READ THROUGH SOME OF THOSE AREAS, IF THEY'RE

WILLING TO SACRIFICE THE TOURISM THAT GOES ALONG WITH ALL THOSE AREAS THAT

I LISTED, OR THE RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES, WHETHER IT'S HUNTING OR

FISHING OR ANYTHING ALONG THAT LINE, IF WE'RE GOING TO TRULY TREAT THIS AS A

STATEWIDE BILL. SO IF WE'RE WILLING TO GIVE THAT UP AND IF WE'RE WILLING

TO GIVE UP WHAT MAKES NEW YORK BEAUTIFUL, THEN I WOULD ENCOURAGE

YOU TO SUPPORT THAT. BUT IF YOU WANT TO PROTECT WHAT'S IMPORTANT IN

NEW YORK IN TERMS OF TOURISM AND IN TERMS OF RECREATION, WHETHER IT'S

FISHING OR HUNTING, THEN I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT YOU WOULD REJECT

THIS BILL. THERE'S OTHER WAYS -- RENEWABLE ENERGY IS AN ADMIRABLE GOAL,

VERY NOBLE, BUT THERE'S OTHER WAYS TO DO IT WITH -- WITH SITING THAT'S

MORE APPROPRIATE THAN WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING WITH THIS BILL.

I WOULD CONTEND THIS BILL IS STILL A LOCAL BILL, BUT THE

SPONSOR CANNOT ANSWER WHETHER -- WHAT THE NEXT AREAS ARE THAT WE'RE

GOING TO IMPOSE OURSELVES ON. SO OTHER THAN THAT, I WOULD ENCOURAGE

YOU TO VOTE NO. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: THANK YOU, MR. GRAY.

MR. CURRAN.

MR. CURRAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

MS. MITAYNES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: THE SPONSOR WILL YIELD.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. CURRAN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT'S ONLY A

COUPLE, A FEW QUESTIONS. YOU KNOW, EMPIRE WIND IS DIVIDED INTO TWO

SECTIONS; ONE IS THE PART DEALING WITH BROOKLYN, TWO IS THE PART DEALING

WITH -- WITH LONG ISLAND. AND IN YOUR DESCRIPTION OF THE BILL, YOU

TALKED ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF MAINLY EMPIRE 1 TO YOUR DISTRICT, AND --

AND I CAN RESPECT THAT AND I CAN APPRECIATE THAT. AND YOU ALSO SPOKE

ABOUT HOW THIS IS A STATEWIDE ISSUE. SO MY DISTRICT IS ACTUALLY RIGHT

ABOVE MY COLLEAGUE ARI BROWN'S DISTRICT, AND IT IS BECAUSE OF THAT I

HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROJECT. AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT

THIS BILL IS, IT IS GIVING AUTHORIZATION FOR A MUNICIPALITY TO SELL OR TO

GIVE PARKLAND. I GET THAT.

LET ME ASK YOU A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE

PROJECT ITSELF. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE TRANSMISSION LINES FROM THE

WIND FARM TO ISLAND PARK IS THEN GOING TO GO UP AS FAR AS GARDEN CITY,

WHICH WOULD THEN RUN STRAIGHT THROUGH MY DISTRICT. DO YOU KNOW IF

THAT'S TRUE OR NOT?

MS. MITAYNES: THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THE

PERMITTING PROCESS.

MR. CURRAN: AND I APOLOGIZE, SOMETHING WAS

BEHIND ME; I DIDN'T HEAR YOU.

MS. MITAYNES: THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THE

PERMITTING PROCESS --

MR. CURRAN: OKAY.

MS. MITAYNES: -- WHICH IS NOT INCLUDED IN THIS

BILL.

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MR. CURRAN: NO, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT SINCE

THIS IS A STATEWIDE ISSUE AND SINCE THIS PARTICULARLY DEALS WITH THE

PEOPLE OF MY DISTRICT AND SINCE WE ARE SAYING THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH

THIS BILL TONIGHT BECAUSE IT IS A STATEWIDE BILL, I'M ASKING JUST

SPECIFICALLY WITH REGARDS TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT A

TRANSMISSION LINE IS GOING TO RUN THROUGH MY DISTRICT, THE 21ST

ASSEMBLY DISTRICT, ALL THE WAY UP TO GARDEN CITY.

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: TRANSMISSION IS PART OF THE

PERMITTING PROCESS.

MR. CURRAN: OKAY. IS -- IS THAT -- AND I

APOLOGIZE, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND YOU. IS THAT YOU DON'T KNOW IF

IT RUNS THROUGH THE 21ST ASSEMBLY DISTRICT, OR IS THAT AN ISSUE THAT IS

GONG TO BE DEALT WITH BY THIS LEGISLATURE AT ANOTHER TIME WHEN I CAN

HAVE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THIS QUESTION? I'M TRYING TO

UNDERSTAND THE ANSWER.

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S NOT RELEVANT BECAUSE THAT'S

NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING IN THIS BILL.

MR. CURRAN: AND -- AND I APOLOGIZE. YOU KNOW

IT'S RELEVANT TO THE 130,000 PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT WHETHER OR NOT A

TRANSMISSION LINE THAT NEEDS PARKLAND, A PROJECT THAT NEEDS PARKLAND

THAT'S GONNA BE PASSED TONIGHT IS GONNA RUN THROUGH THEIR -- THEIR

HOMES AND THEIR DISTRICT, IT IS RELEVANT HERE TONIGHT IF WE'RE GOING TO

GIVE A MUNICIPALITY AUTHORIZATION TO GIVE AWAY A LAND SO THAT EMPIRE

WIND 2 CAN PROCEED FORWARD, AS YOU SAID ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS, AND

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AS WELL AS OTHER PEOPLE SAID, THAT IF WE DON'T DO IT, THIS PROJECT IS IN

JEOPARDY OF MISSING TIMELINES. SO I THINK IT IS VERY RELEVANT. CAN I ASK

YOU, THERE IS MAJOR CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP, BOTH IN THE

CITY OF LONG BEACH RESIDENTS, ISLAND PARK, AND NOW IN MY DISTRICT

ABOUT ANY HEALTH CONCERNS REGARDING THAT VERY TRANSMISSION LINE THAT IS

GONNA RUN THROUGH RESIDENTIAL HOUSING AND POSSIBLE RESIDENTIAL AREAS,

ALL THE WAY THROUGH MY DISTRICT, THE 21ST, UP TO GARDEN CITY. HAS THERE

BEEN A HEALTH STUDY DONE REGARDING ANY TRANSMISSION LINES' AFFECT ON

HEALTH OF ANYBODY IN THOSE AREAS?

MS. MITAYNES: SO THIS DOES NOT CHANGE THE

PERMITTING PROCESS. YOU CAN ASK THOSE QUESTIONS THEN, BUT THAT'S NOT

PART OF THIS BILL.

MR. CURRAN: OKAY. SO LET ME -- BUT WHEN YOU

SAY "THE PERMITTING PROCESS," IS THERE EVER GOING TO BE ANOTHER ISSUE,

WHETHER IT BE THE PERMITTING PROCESS OR ANY OTHER ISSUE THAT'S GONNA

COME BEFORE THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY ON EMPIRE WIND 2 TO YOUR

KNOWLEDGE?

MS. MITAYNES: RIGHT NOW WE ARE AUTHORIZING THE

LOCAL MUNICIPALITY TO ENTER INTO CONVERSATIONS, AND THAT, I ASSUME, WILL

BE PART OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

MR. CURRAN: I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THAT WAS NOT

AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION IS, I UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE

DOING HERE TONIGHT. MY QUESTION IS, RESPECTFULLY, AM I EVER GOING TO

GET ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THE VERY QUESTIONS THAT I'M ASKING HERE

TONIGHT AND NOT GETTING ANSWERS TO, FOR THE HEALTH OF MY RESIDENTS AND

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MY CONSTITUENTS ON THE EMPIRE WIND 2 LATER THAN TONIGHT?

MS. MITAYNES: YOU AND YOUR CONSTITUENTS CAN ASK

THOSE QUESTIONS DURING THE PERMITTING PROCESS.

MR. CURRAN: RIGHT, BUT THE PERMITTING PROCESS

DOESN'T COME BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE, DOES IT?

MS. MITAYNES: NO.

MR. CURRAN: RIGHT. AND THIS IS MY ONLY

OPPORTUNITY TO GET ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS WHICH YOU'RE TELLING ME

ARE NOT RELEVANT TO THE BILL.

MS. MITAYNES: NO. THERE WILL BE EXPERTS WHO

WILL BE ABLE TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS DURING THE PERMITTING PROCESS.

MR. CURRAN: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE

HAS BEEN ANY MARINE ENVIRONMENTAL STUDY WITH REGARDS TO THE EFFECTS OF

THIS SIZE WIND FARM ON LONG BEACH?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: THERE ARE A TOTAL OF 17 PERMITS

THAT ARE GONNA BE REQUIRED AS PART OF THIS PROCESS.

MR. CURRAN: OKAY.

MS. MITAYNES: AND THEY ARE IN VARIOUS STATES.

MR. CURRAN: OKAY. SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER

OR NOT THERE HAS BEEN AN ENVIRONMENTAL MARINE STUDY?

MS. MITAYNES: THESE ARE THE LIST OF THE 17

DIFFERENT PERMITS: COMMERCIAL LEASE OF SUBMERGED LANDS FOR

RENEWABLE ENERGY DEVELOPMENT, BUREAU OF OCEAN ENERGY

MANAGEMENT; APPROVAL FOR A SITE ASSESSMENT PLAN; APPROVAL FOR --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

APPROVAL FOR A CONSTRUCTION AND OPERATIONS PLAN; CONSULTATIONS

PERTAINING TO MAGNA [SIC]-STEVENS FISHERY CONSERVATION AND

MANAGEMENT ACT; MARINE MAMMAL PROTECTION ACT; NATIONAL HISTORIC

PREVENTION [SIC] ACT; ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT; A PERMIT FOR A SUBSIDY

CABLES UNDER THE CLEAN WATER ACT; PERMIT FOR NAVIGATIONAL LIGHTING;

CONSULTATIONS PERMITTING TO SITING; PERMITS FOR AIR QUALITY AND POLLUTION

PREVENTION; AUTHORIZATION FOR INCIDENTAL TAKE OR HARASSMENT UNDER THE

MARINE MAMMAL PROTECTION ACT; ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT; MIGRATORY

BIRD TREATY ACT; THE BALD AND EAGLE -- AND GOLDEN EAGLE PROTECTION

ACT; MAGNA [SIC]-STEVENS FISHERY CONSERVATION AND MANAGEMENT ACT;

PERMIT FOR THE TRANSMISSION SYSTEM CONNECTING TO OFFSHORE WIND FARM

TO NEW YORK CITY'S ELECTRICITY GRID; WATER QUALITY CERTIFICATION; PERMIT

FOR SURVEYING AND SEDIMENT SAMPLING; PERMITS FOR COASTAL

ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS; EASEMENT FOR UNDERWATER CABLES; FEDERAL

CONSISTENCY REVIEW UNDER THE NEW YORK STATE COASTAL MANAGEMENT

PROGRAM; AND RECEIVE PERMIT FOR WORK ON STATE-OWNED ROADS.

MR. CURRAN: THANK YOU -- THANK YOU FOR THAT LIST.

IN THAT LIST, IS -- IS A HEALTH STUDY WITH REGARDS TO THE TRANSMISSION LINE

INCLUDED IN ANY OF THOSE PERMITS?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: THAT SHOULD BE PART OF THE SEQR

PROCESS, BUT THIS IS NOT PART OF THIS BILL.

MR. CURRAN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR -- FOR

TAKING THE QUESTIONS. I APPRECIATE IT.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER OTIS: MR. CURRAN ON THE BILL.

MR. CURRAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU

KNOW, I GET IT. I -- I GET EVERYTHING ABOUT TONIGHT, AND -- AND BUT HERE'S

THE -- HERE'S THE PROBLEM -- PUTTING ALL POLITICS ASIDE AND EVERYTHING

ABOUT PROCESS, HERE'S THE THING: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGITIMATE

CONCERNS OF RESIDENTS WHO ARE DIRECTLY GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY THE

PASSAGE OF THIS BILL. AND WE CAN'T GET UP HERE AND SAY IT'S NOT A LOCAL

BILL, IT'S A STATEWIDE BILL, AND THEN SAY, WELL, IT'S NOT PART OF THE BILL TO

TALK ABOUT STATEWIDE ISSUES, OR AT LEAST THE VERY ISSUES THAT'S GONNA

AFFECT MY DISTRICT THAT IS ONE DISTRICT OVER FROM THE VERY LOCALITY OF

WHERE THIS PARKLAND IS GOING TO BE TAKEN FROM. IT IS -- IT'S

DISAPPOINTING THAT THIS MAY BE THE ONLY OPPORTUNITY IN WHICH

LEGISLATORS FROM THE VERY DISTRICTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED HAVE AN

OPPORTUNITY TO ASK SUBSTANTIATIVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE EMPIRE WIND 2

PROJECT, AND ALL WE ARE RECEIVING IS THE ANSWER, "IT'S NOT PART OF THIS

BILL."

FOR THAT REASON I'M GOING TO BE VOTING AGAINST IT, MR.

SPEAKER. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DINOWITZ.

MR. DINOWITZ: I -- I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I

AGREE WITH MUCH OF WHAT ASSEMBLYMEMBER SOLAGES SAID. THE

BENEFITS OF THIS PROJECT ARE INCALCULABLE. IN ORDER FOR US TO COMPLY WITH

THE CLCPA, WE REALLY HAVE TO TAKE VERY SIGNIFICANT ACTION IN ORDER TO

REDUCE OUR RELIANCE ON FOSSIL FUELS, AND THIS PROJECT COULD, IF EVERYTHING

THEY'RE SAYING IS TRUE, COULD HELP US IN THAT RESPECT. SO I'M NOT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

SPEAKING FOR OR AGAINST THIS, BUT I WANT TO I GUESS REMIND PEOPLE,

BECAUSE ONLY ABOUT A DOZEN OF YOU WERE HERE AT THE TIME, THAT 20 YEARS

AGO YESTERDAY THE ASSEMBLY VOTED 78 TO 68 - NOT THAT I HAVE A LONG

MEMORY - TO ALIENATE 48 ACRES OF PARKLAND IN MY DISTRICT. AND THE ONE

PART OF THIS BILL THAT DOES TROUBLE ME IS THE FACT THAT IT CONTAINS A

PROVISION TO ALIENATE LAND IN A DISTRICT OTHER THAN THAT OF THE SPONSOR.

WHEN THE 48 ACRES WAS ALIENATED IN MY DISTRICT, IT SAID ON THE BOARD - IT

DIDN'T HAVE MY NAME - IT SAID RULES, MR. RULES. MAYBE IT WAS MS.

RULES, BUT I GUESS IT WAS MR. RULES AT THE TIME. IT WAS MR. RULES. AND

THAT WAS NOT THE WAY TO DO THINGS, I DON'T BELIEVE. SO YOU COULD ARGUE

THAT THIS IS A STATEWIDE PROJECT. THEY CERTAINLY DID 20 YEARS AGO, AND

IT'S IRONIC THAT IT WAS EXACTLY 20 YEARS AGO. BUT IT'S HARD FOR ME TO

BELIEVE THAT THERE WASN'T A WAY TO DO THIS WITHOUT ALIENATING LAND IN

SOMEBODY ELSE'S DISTRICT. AND I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULDN'T VOTE FOR THIS

BILL. I'M NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL, BECAUSE I THINK THE BENEFITS ARE

IMMENSE. BUT I AM SAYING THAT IT REALLY MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE THAT

IT'S BEING DONE THIS WAY AND IT'S BEING JAMMED DOWN ANOTHER MEMBER'S

THROAT WHO -- IN WHOSE DISTRICT IT'S -- A PART OF THIS PROJECT IS GOING TO

BE IN. AND I STOOD HERE, ACTUALLY I STOOD HERE THAT NIGHT AND WE VOTED

ON IT AT 3:00 IN THE MORNING, SO WE MADE A BIG IMPROVEMENT SINCE

THEN, WE'RE VOTING ON THIS DURING THE DAYTIME. IT WAS ALSO THE LAST NIGHT

OF SESSION AND THERE WAS 68 PEOPLE IN THE ROOM WHO VOTED NO -- THAT'S

ALMOST ENOUGH, BUT NOT QUITE -- AND THERE WERE 78 PEOPLE, MANY OF

WHOM WERE IN THE ROOM, WHO VOTED YES SO IT -- IT PASSED. BUT THE

POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT WE -- AT LEAST FOR ME IT'S -- IT'S A BIT OF

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

DILEMMA BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH I BELIEVE WE

NEED TO DO, AND I CERTAINLY DON'T QUESTION THE MOTIVES OF ANYBODY

WHO'S A SPONSOR OF THE BILL. BUT THIS WAY WE'RE GOING ABOUT DOING IT IS

TROUBLING. AND SO I'VE WAITED 20 YEARS TO TALK ABOUT THAT NIGHT BECAUSE

I'VE BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE NOW, AND I COULD TRULY SAY THAT OF ALL THE

VOTES I HAVE TAKEN OVER THE YEARS, AND THAT'S OVER 29-PLUS YEARS, THAT

WAS THE BIGGEST DISGRACE THAT I'VE EVER SEEN. AND THE PROJECT THAT I

VOTED AGAINST AND THAT 78 PEOPLE VOTE YES ON TURNED OUT TO BE A -- A

SEVERAL-HUNDRED-MILLION-DOLLAR PROJECT WHICH COST $4 BILLION. SO

AMONG THE OTHER THINGS I SPOKE ABOUT THAT NIGHT WAS THE COST, WHICH

TURNED OUT NOT TO BE THE CASE.

SO I HOPE WE WILL CONTINUE TO TAKE THE STEPS THAT WE

NEED TO DO TO -- TO REDUCE OUR RELIANCE ON FOSSIL FUELS AND TO CARRY OUT

THE MANDATES OF THE CLCPL [SIC], BUT I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND

THAT NONE OF US WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT AFFECTS

OUR DISTRICT DONE BY SOMEBODY ELSE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. LAVINE.

MR. LAVINE: THANK YOU. SO MY FRIEND AND

COLLEAGUE FROM THE 20TH DISTRICT ASKS IS ANYONE IN THIS ROOM HAVE --

DOES ANYONE IN THIS ROOM HAVE FAMILIARITY WITH LONG BEACH, SO LET ME

SHARE THIS WITH YOU. I WAS FIRST ON LONG BEACH -- IN LONG BEACH IN

1955 VISITING RELATIVES WHO LIVED ON PARK. MY WIFE'S GRANDPARENTS

LIVED ON EAST BROADWAY. I, MYSELF, AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE STREET

SYSTEM IN LONG BEACH. I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE OUTLINES OF WHERE THIS

CABLE WILL RUN. YES, FROM RIVERSIDE TO EAST BROADWAY TO LINCOLN TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

HARRISON, YES. I ALSO HAD LUNCH AT THE GREAT LIDO DELI LAST WEEK, WHICH

I RECOMMEND AND I'M SURE MY COLLEAGUE FROM DISTRICT 20 WOULD JOIN

ME IN THAT. THIS PROJECT IS INTEGRAL TO THE FUTURE OF LONG ISLAND, NEW

YORK, THE EASTERN SEABOARD AND AMERICA. BECAUSE WHILE SOME DO NOT

BELIEVE THIS, SOME IN THIS ROOM DO NOT BELIEVE THIS, WE MUST MOVE

AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS. NOW, THIS IS NOT JUST MY OPINION. THIS BILL IS

SUPPORTED BY THE LONG BEACH CITY COUNCIL; THE BUILDINGS AND

CONSTRUCTION TRADES COUNCIL OF NASSAU AND SUFFOLK; CITIZEN'S

CAMPAIGN FOR THE ENVIRONMENT; IBEW, INCLUDING IBEW LOCAL 3; THE

LONG ISLAND ASSOCIATION; SUNY FARMINGDALE, WHICH -- WHICH IS

LEADING THE WAY IN RESEARCH INTO TRAINING YOUNG PEOPLE, STUDENTS, HOW

TO WORK IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT -- THAT INCLUDES WIND POWER. IT'S ALSO

BACKED BY THE ALBANY PORT DISTRICT COMMISSION; THE CAPITAL REGION

BOCES; HUDSON VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE; NEW YORK STATE

LABORERS PAC; NEW YORK LEAGUE OF CONSERVATION VOTERS; QUEENS

TOGETHER; THE RED HOOK INITIATIVE; SOUTHWEST BROOKLYN INDUSTRIAL

DEVELOPMENT AGENCY, THE VARIETY BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB OF QUEENS;

AND THE NATIONAL RESOURCES DEFENSE CENTER. I AM NOT ENTIRELY

COMFORTABLE ADVOCATING FOR A BILL THAT IMPACTS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF

DISTRICT 20, BUT THIS IS ALL A MATTER OF BALANCE. AND AS WE MOVE AWAY

FROM FOSSIL FUELS, WE MAY SEE THESE CONFLICTS ARISE AGAIN AND AGAIN, BUT

WE MUST DO THIS FOR THE GREATER GOOD. AND FINALLY, ISSUES INVOLVING

COMMUNITY BENEFITS ARE BEST LEFT TO THE CITY COUNCIL OF LONG BEACH,

WHICH WANTS THIS BILL. AND IN ITS MOST RECENT LETTER TO US, THE MEMBERS

OF THE CITY COUNCIL, FOUR OF THE FIVE MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

EXPRESSED CONCERN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT BELIEVE -- THEY DO NOT BELIEVE

THAT THIS SHOULD NOW BE A POLITICAL FOOTBALL BETWEEN THOSE WHO FAVOR

FOSSIL FUELS AND THOSE WHO REALIZE THAT WE MUST MOVE AWAY FROM FOSSIL

FUELS.

SO WHILE DO I HAVE SOME MEASURE OF HESITANCY AND

WOULD BE HAPPY TO HAVE LUNCH WITH MY COLLEAGUE FROM DISTRICT 20 AT

THE LIDO -- AT THE LIDO DELI, I AM GOING TO BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS.

THIS IS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF NOT ONLY US, BUT OUR CHILDREN AND OUR

GRANDCHILDREN. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. MITAYNES, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MS. MITAYNES: I'M READY FOR MY INITIATION, MR.

GOODELL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I THINK THAT'S A YES.

MR. GOODELL: I THINK SO, AND I SINCERELY HOPE SHE

ENJOYS IT. LOOKING AT THE BILL, THE FIRST SECTION OF THE BILL TALKS ABOUT

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY AND ON LINE 8 STARTING AT THE END IT SAYS IT'S IN

ANTICIPATION THAT THE STATE'S MANDATED WIND OFFSHORE WIND GOAL WILL BE

-- WILL INCREASE IMPROVED PLANNING AND COORDINATION. SO MY -- MY

FIRST QUESTION IS, WE'VE HEARD THAT THERE'S BEEN A LACK OF COORDINATION

AND COMMUNICATION WITH CERTAINLY THE CITY OF LONG BEACH AND ITS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

RESIDENTS. HOW WILL THIS BILL IMPROVE PLANNING AND COORDINATION?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: IT'LL INVOLVE NYSERDA, NYISO

AND -- AND PSC.

MR. GOODELL: IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS BILL,

THOUGH, THAT REQUIRES PLANNING AND COORDINATION WITH THE LOCAL

COMMUNITY? I UNDERSTAND NYSERDA AND THOSE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS

ARE ALL STATEWIDE. IS THERE ANY IMPROVED PLANNING AND COORDINATION

WITH THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES THAT ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS BILL STATES THAT IT WILL BALANCE

IMPACTS ON LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. I SEE THE NEXT GOAL IS

TO REDUCE COSTS. AM I CORRECT THAT WIND POWER IS TYPICALLY THREE TIMES

MORE EXPENSIVE THAN SHORE-BASED WIND POWER? OFFSHORE IS THREE

TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE THAN EVEN ONSHORE WIND POWER?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS BILL WILL INCREASE COSTS BY

ENCOURAGING LARGER PARTICIPATION. AND GREATER COOPERATION.

MR. GOODELL: BUT THE OVERALL PROJECT, RIGHT, THE --

THE ELECTRICITY GENERATED BY THESE OFFSHORE WIND FARMS, AM I CORRECT,

ARE TYPICALLY RUN THREE TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE THAN ONSHORE POWER; IS

THAT CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS BILL DOESN'T COST ABOUT --

DOESN'T TALK ABOUT INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS FOR REALLY THE NETWORK THAT WE'RE

TRYING TO CREATE.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND THE THIRD OBJECTIVE IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THAT IT'S THE INTENT OF THIS LEGISLATION TO MINIMIZE COMMUNITY AND

ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS OF OFFSHORE WIND. HOW DOES THIS PARK

ALIENATION MINIMIZE COMMUNITY IMPACTS?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: THAT WILL BE PART OF THE PERMITTING

PROCESS WITH NYSERDA, NYISO AND THE PSC.

MR. GOODELL: SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE --

MS. MITAYNES: IT'S IN THE FRONT PART OF THE BILL.

MR. GOODELL: SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE LEGISLATIVE

INTENT TO IMPROVE PLANNING AND COORDINATION DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY

PLANNING AND COORDINATION WITH THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT. THE LEGISLATIVE

INTENT TO REDUCE COSTS IS TO PROMOTE PROJECTS THAT COST THREE TIMES MORE

PER KILOWATT TO PRODUCE, AND THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT TO MINIMIZE

COMMUNITY AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS OF OFFSHORE INVOLVE TRAMPLING

THE LOCAL RIGHTS AND ALIENATING LOCAL PARKLAND. IS THAT -- AM I MISSING

SOMETHING IN THIS?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT IS FOR

VARIOUS STATE AND FEDERAL PERMITTING PROCESS THAT COULD BE

JEOPARDIZED, CAUSING POTENTIAL PROJECT DELAYS AND EVEN MATERIAL --

MATERIALLY INCREASING THE PROJECT'S RISK OF FAILURE.

MR. GOODELL: LOOKING AT PAGE 2 ON LINE 2, IT SAYS

CERTAIN LAND USE AND ALIENATION ACTION -- ACTIONS ARE NECESSARY

PROCEDURAL COMPONENTS ON THIS PROJECT. THAT'S AN ACCURATE STATEMENT,

ISN'T IT?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. MITAYNES: I'M SORRY, SAY THAT AGAIN.

MR. GOODELL: LOOKING AT LINE -- I'M SHIFTING

GEARS A LITTLE BIT. I -- I KIND OF MADE FUN OF THE ENTIRE LEGISLATIVE

PURPOSE WHICH I THINK IS ABSOLUTELY VIOLATED BY THIS LAW, BUT ON THE

OTHER HAND I THINK THAT THE LINE 2 ON PAGE 2 IS ACCURATE WHEN IT SAYS

CERTAIN LAND USE AND ALIENATION ACTIONS ARE NECESSARY. THAT STATEMENT

IS CORRECT, ISN'T IT?

MS. MITAYNES: CORRECT. THERE WILL BE A

TEMPORARY ALIENATION AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE LAND AND THEN

RETURNED.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT IT'S

TEMPORARY ALIENATION, BUT I WOULD DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO PAGE 3, LINE

29 AND 30. AM I CORRECT THAT THAT TALKS ABOUT A, QUOTE, "PERMANENT -- IT

SAID THAT THE PARKLAND DESCRIBED IN THIS BILL WILL BE, QUOTE,

"PERMANENTLY DISCONTINUED" AS PARKLAND, RIGHT?

MS. MITAYNES: THAT PART IS SUBTERRANEAN, UNDER

WATER, UNDER THE LAND.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, IT'S NOT UNDER WATER BECAUSE

IT DESCRIBES THE METES AND BOUNDS DESCRIPTION OF PROPERTY THAT'S ON

LAND, RIGHT?

MS. MITAYNES: UNDER THE GROUND IT WILL BE

RESTORED.

MR. GOODELL: AND SO THAT PART SAYS --

MS. MITAYNES: IT CAN CONTINUE TO BE USED AS

PARKLAND.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MR. GOODELL: SO THAT PART OF THE PARK IS

PERMANENTLY DISCONTINUED, CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: THE UNDERGROUND PORTION WILL BE.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO THE SURFACE IS

TEMPORARILY APPROPRIATED AND THE SUBSURFACE OF THE PARK IS

PERMANENTLY DISCONTINUED AS A PARK, CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: YES. WHAT WE'RE TRYING -- WHAT

THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS CREATE A SUBSTATION. ONCE THE WINDMILLS ARE

ACTUALLY PRODUCED AND ARE BUILT AND THEY'RE CREATING ENERGY, THEY'RE

GONNA NEED SOMEWHERE TO PLUG INTO.

MR. GOODELL: NOW, I NOTE ON PAGE 4, LOOKING AT

LINE 12 AND 13, IT SAYS THE PROVISION OF THIS ACTION SHALL NOT OCCUR UNTIL

THE CITY OF LONG BEACH HAS COMPLIED WITH ANY FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS

PERTAINING TO THE ALIENATION OR CONVERSION OF PARKLANDS, AND THAT WOULD

APPLY IF THEY RECEIVED ANY FEDERAL FUNDS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THOSE

PARKS, CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S STANDARD.

MR. GOODELL: AND HAS THE CITY OF LONG BEACH

RECEIVED FEDERAL FUNDING OR OTHER ASSISTANCE THAT WOULD REQUIRE

FEDERAL APPROVAL?

MS. MITAYNES: THAT'S STANDARD LANGUAGE THAT'S

INCLUDED.

MR. GOODELL: AND I APPRECIATE THAT IT'S STANDARD

LANGUAGE, MY QUESTION IS, HAVE THEY COMPLIED WITH THAT LANGUAGE OR --

OR DO WE KNOW WHETHER THEY EVEN NEED TO?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. MITAYNES: THEY DON'T NEED TO UNTIL IT'S

ALIENATED. THIS IS JUST AN AUTHORIZATION.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. SO OTHER THAN RECITING THE

LEGISLATIVE INTENT FROM 2019, WHICH IT APPEARS THAT WE'RE VIOLATING

EVERY PROVISION OF IT, AND OTHER THAN A SHORT SECTION DEALING WITH THE

AUTHORITY -- THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, THE REST OF THIS ALL DEALS WITH

THE ALIENATION OF -- OF PARKLAND IN THE CITY OF LONG BEACH, CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS ESTABLISHES REQUIREMENTS FOR

NYSERDA --

MR. GOODELL: BUT -- SO THIS --

MS. MITAYNES: -- THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION

AND NYISO --

MR. GOODELL: JUST TO BE -- JUST TO BE CLEAR --

MS. MITAYNES: -- TO ESTABLISH AN OFFSHORE WIND

FARM.

MR. GOODELL: -- WE'RE ALL UNDERSTANDING EACH

OTHER --

MS. MITAYNES: THE PLANNING PROCESS, I'M SORRY.

MR. GOODELL: -- THIS BILL HAS TEN SECTIONS, AND

ONLY SECTION 3 AMENDS THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, CORRECT?

(PAUSE)

MS. MITAYNES: TO ESTABLISH A STATEWIDE OFFSHORE

WIND PLANNING PROCESS.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO SECTION 4 DEALS WITH THE

ALIENATION OF PARKLAND BY THE CITY OF LONG BEACH; SECTION 5 TALKS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ABOUT A REQUIREMENT FOR THEM TO PROVIDE AN OFFSETTING DEDICATION;

SECTION 6 DESCRIBES THE PARKLAND THAT IS TEMPORARILY ALIENATED; SECTION

7 DESCRIBES THE SECTION THAT IS PERMANENTLY DISCONTINUED AS PARKLAND;

SECTION 8 TALKS ABOUT HOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO RE -- REHABILITATE THE

PARKLAND ONCE IT'S COMPLETED, THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED; AND SECTION 9

TALKS ABOUT THE OBLIGATION OF THE CITY OF LONG BEACH TO GET FEDERAL

CONSENT, CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: I'M SORRY, WHAT'S THE QUESTION?

MR. GOODELL: SO AM I CORRECT, THEN, THAT OF THE

TEN SECTIONS, THE TENTH BEING THE EFFECTIVE DATE, ALL OF THEM EXCEPT

SECTION 3, SECTION 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 AND 9 ALL DEAL WITH THE ALIENATION OF

PARKLAND IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S DISTRICT, CORRECT?

MS. MITAYNES: THIS -- THE BILL ESTABLISHES A

STATEWIDE PLANNING PROCESS.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. THANK YOU AGAIN. I HOPE

YOUR INITIATION WAS PLEASANT.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.

GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: I -- I THINK IT'S ABUNDANTLY CLEAR

THAT THIS BILL IS ABOUT BIG MONEY, HELPING BIG CORPORATIONS MAKE A BIG

PROFIT BY BUILDING MASSIVE WIND FARMS THAT CREATE ENERGY AT THREE TIMES

THE COST OF ENERGY CREATED ONSHORE, ALL IN AN EFFORT TO VALUE A SIGNAL

THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND NOT ABOUT TAXPAYERS,

RATEPAYERS OR LOCAL RESIDENTS. APPARENTLY, WE HAD THE BELIEF THAT IF WE

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CREATE SIX GIGAWATTS OF POWER, THAT WE SOMEHOW WILL SAVE THE

TAXPAYERS MONEY WHEN WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE SIX GIGAWATTS OF

REPLACEMENT POWER AVAILABLE FOR THOSE COLD, STILL NIGHTS WHEN NO

POWER IS BEING PRODUCED. SO IN ADDITION TO THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT

WILL BE SPENT ON THIS OFFSHORE WIND FARM, WE HAVE TO SPEND A

CORRESPONDING AMOUNT FOR ONSHORE BACKUP POWER OR THE LIGHTS WILL GO

OUT WHEN THE WIND STOPS BLOWING.

SO, SADLY, THIS LEGISLATION, CONTRARY TO ITS LEGISLATIVE

INTENT, DOES NOT IMPROVE PLANNING AND COORDINATION AT ALL. IT

DRAMATICALLY INCREASES COSTS BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE TO REPLICATE THE

ENTIRE COST OF THE WIND FARMS WITH THE ENTIRE DUPLICATE COST OF BACKUP

POWER, AND WE KNOW THAT OFFSHORE POWER COSTS SO MUCH MORE.

CONTRARY TO THIS LEGISLATION, THIS DOESN'T MINIMIZE COMMUNITY

ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE, IT ACTUALLY AUTHORIZES IT. AND LAST, AS ALL MY

COLLEAGUES HAVE MENTIONED, THE FUNDAMENTAL PURPOSE OF THIS BILL IS TO

ALIENATE PARKLAND IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S DISTRICT, OVER THEIR OBJECTIONS,

WITHOUT CONSULTING WITH THE COMMUNITY OR GETTING A HOME RULE

REQUEST AS WE HAVE REQUIRED MULTIPLE TIMES THIS YEAR AND HAVE REQUIRED

IN EVERY OTHER SITUATION THAT'S COMPARABLE. SO AS WE VIOLATE THE STATE

CONSTITUTION AND OUR OWN RULES IN ORDER TO KNEEL AT THE ALTAR OF

EXPENSIVE OFFSHORE WIND POWER, LET US REMEMBER ALL THE RULES AND

LIBERTIES AND PROCEDURES THAT WE ARE TOSSING ASIDE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK.

MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'M NOT A FAN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

OF PARK ALIENATION, ALTHOUGH I HAVE SUPPORTED IT IN SOME LIMITED

CIRCUMSTANCES. THE MTA, NOT NECESSARILY MY FAVORITE AGENCY, WHEN

THEY HAVE HAD TO BUILD A SUBSTATION IN ORDER TO KEEP THE TRAINS RUNNING,

I HAVE, IN FACT, SUPPORTED THOSE MEASURES. I HAVE HAD IN MY OWN

DISTRICT AN ALIENATION OF PARKLAND IN A CITY/STATE PUBLIC BENEFIT

AUTHORITY-CONTROLLED AREA ALIENATED OVER MY OBJECTIONS, SO I UNDERSTAND

THE DISCOMFITURE THAT MIGHT ARISE IN THIS SITUATION.

I SPENT ALL OF MY CHILDHOOD SUMMERS IN LONG BEACH,

VERY FOND MEMORIES. I WENT BACK AS A YOUNG ADULT WHEN I ACTUALLY

WAS ALLOWED TO DRIVE, AND UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT THAT COMMUNITY

IS AND HOW IMPORTANT ITS BEACHES ARE, HAVING GROWN UP IN EASTERN

QUEENS. BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT FOSSIL FUELS ARE DAMAGING THE

PLANET. WE HAVE HAD ENUMERABLE REMINDERS FROM MOTHER NATURE THAT

SOME OF OUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES, AND THOSE CONSEQUENCES ARE

FELT BY PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE FROM DIFFERENT TYPES OF

EXTREME WEATHER CIRCUMSTANCES. FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL NOT

APPRECIATE OUR TWIDDLING OUR THUMBS WHILE WE ARE SUBJECTED TO

SUPERSTORM SANDY AND THE MONTHS AND YEARS-LONG RECOVERY, FLOODS IN

UPSTATE NEW YORK, AND HOPEFULLY WE WILL NEVER SEE THE KINDS OF FOREST

FIRES THAT WE SAW IN QUEBEC AND FROM WHICH NOT ONLY WE, BUT PEOPLE

ACROSS NEW YORK CITY AND LONG ISLAND, FELT THE EFFECTS OF THAT SMOKE.

SO, EVEN THOUGH WE CANNOT DO WHAT OTHER -- WE CAN'T CHANGE THE ENTIRE

WORLD, WE CAN CHANGE WHAT WE DO. AND THERE ARE IMPACTS FROM

CONTINUING WITH FOSSIL FUELS AND THEY ARE VARIABLE. IT'S NOT A CONSTANT

SOURCE OF POWER FOR US, AS THE PEOPLE ON LONG ISLAND LEARNED YEARS AGO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

WHEN THEY LINED UP ON ALTERNATE DAYS IN ORDER TO GET GAS FOR THEIR CARS

BECAUSE WE DIDN'T CONTROL THAT MARKET OURSELVES. SO, THE STATE HAS

MADE A DETERMINATION THAT WE WILL TAKE STEPS TO ADD RENEWABLE ENERGY.

WIND POWER, UNLIKE SUN POWER, THE SUN DOES GO DOWN FOR PART OF THE

DAY. WIND POWER CAN BLOW AT NIGHT AND BLOW IN THE MORNING. T.

BOONE PICKENS, WHO WAS A GREAT TEXAS OIL MAN, BEFORE HE DIED

INVESTED HEAVILY IN WIND POWER. WHY? BECAUSE HE WAS A TREE

HUGGER? NO, BECAUSE HE SAW THE POTENTIAL FOR THAT RENEWABLE ENERGY AT

LOW COST TO HIMSELF ONCE HE MADE THE INITIAL INVESTMENT, TO MAINTAIN A

STEADY FLOW OF POWER THAT HE COULD SELL.

SO THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE STEP. IT APPEARS THAT THERE

ARE SERIOUS ORGANIZATIONS IN SUPPORT. AND AS MUCH AS IT DISCOMFORTS US

TO DO IT IN THIS FASHION, WE STILL HAVE TO TAKE STEPS FORWARD TO GET OFF OF

FOSSIL FUELS, WHICH WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DO COMPLETELY ANYWHERE IN

THE NEAR TERM, BUT WE HAVE TO TAKE THE STEPS THAT WE CAN AND START NOW.

BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS IF WE DON'T, BECAUSE WE'VE HAD

THE INTIMATIONS -- THE INTIMATIONS OF THE DISASTERS THAT HAVE AFFECTED

EVERY PART OF THE STATE. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HASN'T SEEN THE FLOODS,

HIGH WINDS THAT HAVE COME FROM MORE EXTREME STORMS. IT'S NOT JUST THE

GLOBAL WARMING AND THE CHANGE OF WEATHER PATTERNS IN THE OCEANS,

WHICH IN PART ARE DRIVING SOME OF OUR LARGER SEA MAMMALS CLOSER TO

SHORE. WE KNOW THAT THIS IS HAPPENING. AND TO SIT BACK AND ACT AS IF

WE ARE POWERLESS OR WE DON'T HAVE A CLUE OR WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE

HARD DECISIONS IS A MISTAKE. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A REALLY

UNCOMFORTABLE CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT WE'RE GONNA FACE A LOT MORE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

UNCOMFORTABLE CIRCUMSTANCES IF WE DON'T START TO ADDRESS THE REALITY

THAT FOSSIL FUELS NEED TO BE REPLACED BY RENEWABLE ENERGY, AND THAT IS

GONNA TAKE A LONG TIME. BUT WE CAN'T JUST WAIT UNTIL WE'RE ALL

COMFORTABLE, BECAUSE ALL OF YOU SEE THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN YOUR

COMMUNITIES CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR FUTURE AND WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT

THEM, TOO. EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT, OH, THE CHILDREN, THE CHILDREN.

WELL, THE CHILDREN AND THE CHILDREN'S CHILDREN ARE GOING TO PAY THE

PRICE FOR OUR INACTION.

SO I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR TAKING THE HEAT, AND I HOPE

THAT WE WILL UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS OUR OBLIGATION AND RESPONSIBILITY TO

FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TAKE THE NECESSARY AND PERHAPS DIFFICULT STEPS

NOW IN ORDER TO ADDRESS WHAT WE CAN SEE ON THE HORIZON. THANK YOU,

MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. I THINK THAT THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT BILLS

THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS SESSION. AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE SO MANY OF

US IN MANY OF OUR COMMUNITIES HAVE EXPERIENCED THE IMPACTS OF

CLIMATE CHANGE. I WASN'T AT LONG BEACH WHEN SANDY -- SUPERSTORM

SANDY CAME THROUGH, BUT I WAS IN BUFFALO IN DECEMBER. AND I'VE SEEN

MORE SNOW AND HIGHER WINDS THAN I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE BECAUSE THE

LAKE WAS STILL NOT FROZEN IN DECEMBER. THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH

THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, I -- I LOOK AT THE ENVIRONMENT AS IF IT'S SOMETHING

THAT THE CREATOR CREATED IN PERFECT CONDITION, PERFECT. AND EVERYTHING

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

WE'VE DONE AS A SOCIETY SINCE WE STARTED CAPITALIZING AND

INDUSTRIALIZING AND GROWING THE AMERICAN ECONOMY HAS HAD A NEGATIVE

IMPACT ON THAT ENVIRONMENT. AND HERE WE ARE, DECADES LATER, BUT WE

STILL ENJOY SOME OF THE BENEFITS OF THAT CREATION OF THAT ECONOMY. BUT

WE ALSO SEE SOME OF THE NEGATIVES OF THE DAMAGE THAT WAS DONE TO THE

ENVIRONMENT. AND IF WE'RE NOT GONNA BE THE ONES TO STAND UP AND SAY

IT'S TIME TO FIX IT, I DON'T LIKE THE METHODS THAT WE'RE USING TO FIX IT. I

DON'T LIKE IT. I DON'T LIKE THAT SOMEBODY WHO REPRESENTS A DISTRICT

DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A SAY IN WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE. BUT I ALSO

KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT IMPACTS HIS DISTRICT IMPACTS MINE.

AND SO IF THERE'S A SOLUTION TO BE FOUND IN HIS DISTRICT THAT IMPACTS MY

DISTRICT, THEN GO LOOK FOR IT, FIND IT. LET'S DO THAT. LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN.

ALL OF US HAVE CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN AND GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN,

SOME OF US HAVE GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN, AND WE WANT TO SEE THIS

ENVIRONMENT FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE IN THIS ENVIRONMENT TEN

YEARS FROM NOW, 20 YEARS FROM NOW. I'M TELLING YOU PEOPLE, WE HAVE

TO DO SOMETHING IF WE WANT THAT TO BE A REALITY. AND WE CAN'T JUST SIT

HERE AND FIND REASONS TO DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER OVER POLITICAL ISSUES,

THIS IS ABOUT OUR LIVELIHOOD. THIS IS ABOUT HOW WE SURVIVE IN THE

FUTURE. NOW, GRANTED, NEW YORK CAN'T FIX THIS ALL BY THEMSELVES, BUT

WE CAN START THE PROCESS, SOMEBODY HAS TO. AND I'M PROUD TO BE A

MEMBER OF A HOUSE WHERE WE'RE CHOOSING TO MAKE THESE KIND OF

DIFFICULT DECISIONS, EVEN THOUGH IT'S UGLY, IT'S NOT PRETTY, BUT IT'S THE

RIGHT THING TO DO.

AND SO I WANT TO COMMEND ALL OF THOSE WHO CAN STAND

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

IN SUPPORT OF OUR ENVIRONMENT. IN SUPPORT OF THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WAS

GIVEN TO US BY THE DIVINE CREATOR AND THE ONE THAT WE HAVE BEEN IN -- A

PART OF RUINING. LET'S BE A PART OF REPAIRING IT. THIS IS A PIECE OF THAT.

LET'S TRY AND DO IT TODAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A SLOW ROLL CALL HAS

BEEN REQUESTED. MEMBERS MUST COME TO THE CHAMBER AND CAST YOUR

BALLOT. MEMBERS IN THE SOUND OF MY VOICE, PLEASE RETURN TO THE

CHAMBER IMMEDIATELY AND CAST YOUR BALLOT.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. PIROZZOLO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. PIROZZOLO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'D LIKE

AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PIROZZOLO, GO

RIGHT AHEAD.

MR. PIROZZOLO: THANK YOU, SIR. SO, SO MUCH HAS

SAID -- HAS BEEN SAID HERE THAT IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE TAKING AWAY THE

SOVEREIGN RIGHTS OF LONG ISLAND FOR THE RIGHTS OF MANUFACTURING IN

BROOKLYN WILL SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE. I KNOW WE'VE SAID IT BEFORE, BUT

IF YOU WANT AN ACTIVE ROLE IN SOLVING CLIMATE CHANGE, WE NEED TO WORK

WITH RUSSIA, WE NEED TO WORK WITH CHINA, WE NEED TO WORK WITH INDIA.

BECAUSE THIS WIND FARM WILL HAVE ZERO IMPACT ON THE CLIMATE THAT'S

BEING DAMAGED BY NEW YORK OR BY THE UNITED STATES. IN FACT, WE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ALREADY ARE A LEADER IN REDUCING OUR CARBON IMPACT. SO I DON'T LIKE THE

FALSALITY [SIC] THAT I'M HEARING HERE THAT WE ARE GOING TO SAVE THE PLANET

BECAUSE LONG ISLAND IS GOING TO GET SOME WINDMILLS.

THERE'S A SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE MAY HAVE ALL HEARD IT,

MAY THE ODDS EVER BE IN YOUR FAVOR. AND THAT'S FROM A MOVIE CALLED

THE HUNGER GAMES WHERE OTHER AREAS DICTATE WHAT HAPPENS TO OTHER

AREAS, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE. LONG ISLAND IS BEING

SET UPON BY PREDATORS WHO THIS BODY DOES NOT LIKE. WE HAVE BIG

BUSINESS COMING IN HERE FOR BIG DOLLARS AND BIG PROFITS. THE MAJORITY

SPEAKS OUT AGAINST THAT EVERY SINGLE DAY, BUT WHEN IT APPEARS TO BE IN

THE FALSALITY [SIC] OF THE CAUSE OF SAVING THE PLANET, HOW QUICKLY WE ARE

TO TURN A BLIND EYE AND SAY THIS IS A GOOD THING. WE HAVE A COMPANY

THAT I'VE BEEN TOLD FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD HERE TODAY DOES NOT EVEN HAVE

THE MONEY TO CONTINUE OR FINISH THE PROJECT, BUT TO MAKE US LOOK GOOD

WE ARE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND DO IT.

SO FOR THAT AND ONE OTHER REASON, MR. SPEAKER, THAT

I'M NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR THIS IS THAT THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY LEGAL

ISSUES CREATED BY THE LEGISLATURE OURSELVES OF NOT BEING ABLE TO

WITHDRAW THE BILL, AMEND THE BILL, THAT I DON'T EVEN WANT TO BE

ASSOCIATED WITH VOTING FOR ANYTHING THAT IS SURE TO HAVE TREMENDOUS

LEGAL CHALLENGES. THAT WOULD BE AN EMBARRASSMENT. SO I VOTE NO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PIROZZOLO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. MCDONALD.

MR. MCDONALD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WHEN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

I FIRST LOOKED AT THIS LEGISLATION, AND IT COMES FROM THE EYES OF A MAN

WHO SERVED AS MAYOR FOR 13 YEARS, I HAD SOME VERY GRAVE CONCERNS

ABOUT LOCAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL, ABOUT HOME RULE. I DON'T CONDEMN

MY COLLEAGUE FOR FIGHTING FOR HIS COMMUNITY, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO

DO, IN MANY ASPECTS. AND I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR DEBATING

A VERY DIFFICULT BILL. IT WAS NOT EASY BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

HOWEVER, AT THE SAME TOKEN, AS YOU READ THE BILL AND LISTEN TO THE

DEBATE, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT STILL AT THE END OF THE DAY HAS A DECISION

TO MAKE. AND AS WAS MENTIONED BY SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ON THE

OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, I SURELY HOPE THAT ALL PARTIES COME TO THE TABLE

IN QUICK FASHION TO PUT A DEAL IN PLACE THAT SATISFIES THE CONCERNS OF THE

LOCAL GOVERNMENT. AT THE SAME TOKEN, WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO BUILD

MORE OFFSHORE WIND OPPORTUNITIES. WE NEED TO EXPAND OUR RENEWABLE

ENERGY RESOURCES STATEWIDE.

THIS LEGISLATION HAS IMPACT HERE IN THE CAPITAL REGION

AS IT SUPPORTS PLANS FOR MAJOR INVESTMENT AND JOBS IN THE PORT OF

ALBANY, AND THEREFORE, I AM SUPPORTING THIS LEGISLATION. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MCDONALD IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. SOLAGES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. SOLAGES: TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FIRST, FOR THE

RECORD, YOU KNOW, BROOKLYN IS ON LONG ISLAND. SORRY, YOU GUYS.

SECOND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A DANGEROUS GAME THAT WE'RE PLAYING. YOU

KNOW, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE BUILDING TRANSMISSION LINES AND

GETTING -- AND STRENGTHENING THE GRID. JUST YESTERDAY THE NEW YORK

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ISO APPROVED THE PROPEL NY ENERGY PROJECT, WHICH WILL BE GOING

THROUGH LONG ISLAND. AND SO CREATING A DYNAMIC THAT WOULD HAVE

COMMUNITIES LOOK AT THESE FELONIOUS, YOU KNOW, EXCUSES TO APPROVE

SOME OF THESE PROJECTS IS REALLY A DANGEROUS POLITICAL GAME THAT WE'RE

PLAYING.

LOOK, I -- I SUPPORT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND I REALLY

ENCOURAGE ALL PARTIES TO COME TO THE TABLE AND HAVE A CONVERSATION.

YOU KNOW, I ENCOURAGE THE -- THE SITTING ASSEMBLYMEMBER AND

SENATOR TO REALLY ENGAGE IN THE CONVERSATION, AND THE COMPANY TO ALSO

TALK TO THEM. BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT GIVING BACK AND IT'S ABOUT TALKING AND

COMMUNICATION. BUT AGAIN, WE HAVE AMBITIOUS GOALS HERE IN NEW

YORK STATE. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE -- THE STATE WANTS TO ACHIEVE ITS 70

PERCENT GOAL OF ENERGY BY 2030, AND DELAYING THIS BILL WOULD PUT US

BACK. AND SO WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND WE REALLY NEED TO WORK

TOGETHER FOR THE GOOD OF THE STATE AND FOR THE GOOD OF THIS COUNTRY,

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE ARE NOT ONLY DOWN WHEN IT COMES TO THE CLIMATE

CRISIS, WE ARE DOWN WHEN IT COMES TO ENERGY INDEPENDENCE IN -- IN THE

UNITED STATES.

SO I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE AND I AM ALSO GOING TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. GRAY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GRAY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY

VOTE. SO, YOU KNOW, ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES CUT BOTH WAYS. RENEWABLE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ENERGIES, RENEWABLE ENERGY PROJECTS ARE NOBLE AND ADMIRABLE TO -- IN

ORDER TO ACHIEVE OUR ENVIRONMENTALLY [SIC] DECARBONIZATION. BUT ALSO,

THESE PROJECTS HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT AS WELL. IN 2009

NYPA CAME TO JEFFERSON COUNTY AND WANTED TO PLACE PROJECTS IN LAKE

ONTARIO. THE RESIDENTS AT THE TIME AND OUR BOARD OF LEGISLATORS WAS

LED BY NONE OTHER THAN MR. BLANKENBUSH, AND OUR RESIDENTS AT THE TIME

OVERWHELMINGLY REJECTED THEM BASED ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES, THE LEAST

OF WHICH ARE SITE, RECREATION AND THE IMPACTS ON THE ENVIRONMENT. SO

-- SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO CONSIDER THAT WHEN THEY'RE

VOTING FOR THESE. IF THEY'RE WILLING TO SEE THEM IN THE ADIRONDACK PARK,

IF THEY'RE WILLING TO SEE THEM IN THE CATSKILLS, THEN BY ALL MEANS, THEN

GO AHEAD AND CAST YOUR VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. BUT OTHER THAN THAT,

YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES ON BOTH THE GOOD AND THE

BAD. THERE'S A GIVE AND TAKE ON THESE THINGS, AND SITING IS EVERYTHING

IN THESE CASES.

I DON'T PRETEND TO IMPOSE MY WILL ON THE CITY OF LONG

BEACH, NOR DO I WANT ANY OTHER MEMBERS TO IMPOSE THEIR WILL ON

JEFFERSON OR ST. LAWRENCE COUNTY, THE AREAS I REPRESENT, WHETHER IT BE

LAKE ONTARIO OR THE ST. LAWRENCE RIVER.

SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M IN THE NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. KEITH BROWN.

MR. K. BROWN: TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YES, SIR.

MR. K. BROWN: MR. SPEAKER, I -- I'M TROUBLED BY

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WE HAVE BEFORE US TODAY. I WANT TO VOTE FOR IT,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

I BELIEVE IN ALTERNATIVE ENERGY, I THINK IT IS THE FUTURE. I THINK IT'S

IMPORTANT FOR OUR KIDS BECAUSE WITHOUT ALTERNATIVE ENERGY OUR PLANET'S

GONNA OVERHEAT AND WE WON'T HAVE ANY FOOD, ALL THE THINGS THAT WE TALK

ABOUT WITH FARMING AND THE RISING OCEAN LEVELS. BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU,

MR. SPEAKER, I HEARD MY COLLEAGUES SPEAK VERY CLEARLY THAT THERE'S

TECHNICAL INCONSISTENCIES WITH THIS BILL FROM THE FACT THAT WHEN THE BILL

CAME UP WITH THE HOME RULE MESSAGE ON JUNE 9TH, THERE WAS A

TECHNICAL ERROR. IT WAS SENT BACK DOWN, IT WAS BROUGHT BACK UP ON THE

20TH, AND MIRACULOUSLY IT'S HERE ON THE FLOOR. WE ALL HAVE TO ADHERE TO

THE RULES OF THIS CHAMBER. IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO GET ANY BILL TO

THE FLOOR. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT THERE'S A REASON WHY WE HAVE A

HOME RULE MESSAGE REQUIREMENT IN THIS BODY, AND IT'S TO REDUCE

CORRUPTION. BECAUSE WITH A HOME RULE MESSAGE, YOU KNOW THAT THE

COMMUNITIES THAT'S BEING IMPACTED THE MOST HAS BOUGHT IN TO THE

MEASURE THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED BY THIS BODY AND THE STATE LAW

REQUIRES THIS BODY TO PASS THAT MEASURE. SO IT'S ANOTHER CHECK AND

BALANCE IN OUR SYSTEM THAT THE BRILLIANT PEOPLE WHO DESIGNED OUR WAY

OF GOVERNMENT CAME UP WITH OVER 200 YEARS AGO.

SO FOR THAT REASON AND FOR THE FACT THAT I DON'T BELIEVE

WE COULD JUST SKIRT AROUND THE RULES OF THIS HOUSE, AND I TOOK AN OATH

OF OFFICE AND SO DID 150 PEOPLE THAT ARE SURROUNDING ME RIGHT NOW, TO

UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION. THIS IS IN DEROGATION OF THE CONSTITUTION, AND

FOR THAT REASON I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS MEASURE. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. MR.

BROWN IN THE NEGATIVE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. MITAYNES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. MITAYNES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS

BILL WILL BRING ECONOMIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS TO THE STATE, MY

COMMUNITY AND YOURS. OFFSHORE WIND IS A MATTER OF STATEWIDE

IMPORTANCE. THE ALIENATION AUTHORIZATION IS IN SUPPORT OF THE

STATEWIDE GOAL. COMMUNITIES IN NEW YORK EXPECT TO SEE INSTITUTIONAL

AND ECONOMIC BENEFITS INCLUDING ALBANY, SOUTH BROOKLYN, QUEENS,

PORT JEFFERSON, EAST SAUTUCKER [SIC] AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES IN SUFFOLK

COUNTY, ALONG WITH STONY -- WITH SUNNY [SIC] STONY BROOK AND

FARMINGDALE HAVE ALREADY INVESTED AS MUCH AS $730 MILLION IN

COMBINED PRIVATE AND PUBLIC FUNDS TO AID OUR STATE AND COMMUNITIES

FOR A MORE GREEN RESILIENT FUTURE.

THANK YOU. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I YIELD THE

REST OF MY TIME.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. MITAYNES IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. FAHY TO SUPPORT -- TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. FAHY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOUR MIC IS NOT ON.

TRY NOW.

MS. FAHY: IT'S ON NOW. OKAY, IT'S ON NOW. SORRY.

THANK YOU AGAIN TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I, TOO, AM RISING IN SUPPORT OF

THIS LEGISLATION BECAUSE OF MY CONCERN AND MY CARE AND INTEREST IN

WIND ENERGY, PARTICULARLY AS IT RELATES TO THE ALBANY PORT, WHERE MYSELF

AND REGIONAL COLLEAGUES HAVE WORKED FOR YEARS AND YEARS TO SUPPORT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PROJECTS AT THE ALBANY PORT, TO GROW THAT PORT, AND MOST RECENTLY TO

EXPAND WIND ENERGY THERE WHICH IS TIED TO HUNDREDS OF FUTURE JOBS.

BUT I DO SHARE THE CONCERN RAISED BY SO MANY, THE TROUBLING PART OF THE

-- THE PRECEDENT POSSIBLY BEING SET HERE WITH REGARD TO HOME RULE

MESSAGES. JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WE NEEDED A HOME RULE

MESSAGE ON A SCHOOL SPEED ZONE, AND OUR ALBANY CITY COUNCIL HAD TO

GO INTO SPECIAL SESSION IN ORDER TO GET A REVISED HOME RULE MESSAGE.

SO I AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS SAID EARLIER TODAY, WE WANT TO SEE ALL

PARTIES TRY TO COME TOGETHER BECAUSE THIS PROJECT HAS A LONG, LONG ROAD

AHEAD OF IT, MANY YEARS WORTH OF WORK THAT WILL IMPACT MANY AREAS OF

THIS STATE. AND I DO HOPE THAT -- THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO COME TOGETHER

TO WORK ON THIS IN THE FUTURE, AND THAT PARTICULARLY IN THE AREAS DIRECTLY

IMPACTED ON LONG ISLAND THAT WE WILL FIND SOME COMMON GROUND AS

WE MOVE FORWARD TO ADDRESS OUR CLIMATE GOALS.

AND WITH THAT, AGAIN, I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. FAHY IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. ARI BROWN.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU

KNOW, IN MANY ARGUMENTS PEOPLE TRY TO CREATE A STRAW MAN TO DIVERT

ATTENTION IN A DIFFERENT WAY. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S HERE DEBATING THE

BENEFITS OF RENEWABLE ENERGY. ALL WE WERE SIMPLY ASKING FOR WAS TO

DELAY THIS UNTIL NEXT SESSION SO THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY SIT DOWN. I'VE

HEARD MANY TIMES PEOPLE SAY, WE HOPE THAT THE PEOPLE CAN COME

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

TOGETHER. WELL, I'VE PERSONALLY TRIED FOR NEARLY SIX MONTHS TO TALK TO

EQUINOR AND BYPASSED EVERY SINGLE WAY. THE COMMUNITY WANTS TO TALK

TO THEM. WHAT PROCESS SHOULD I TAKE TO GET THIS COMMUNICATION TO

HAPPEN? MR. SPEAKER, AGAIN, THE COMMUNITY IS IN FAVOR OF RENEWABLE

ENERGY. THEY'RE NOT OPPOSED TO THIS PROJECT. ALL THEY'RE ASKING FOR IS

PUT THE CABLE IN THE WATER, AS EQUINOR HAS DONE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

WHY DOES IT HAVE TO RUN THROUGH TOWN? I HEARD ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES

MENTION THAT SHE HAD THIS IN MANHATTAN. I DON'T KNOW IF SHE LIVES IN

UPSTATE OR MANHATTAN, I'M NOT SURE WHICH BUT I THINK IT WAS

MANHATTAN. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SMALL AREA. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 3.2

MILES OF ROADWAY IN A COMMUNITY THAT'S BARELY 3.2 MILES LONG. PUT IT

IN THE WATER. IT'S NOT -- AT A $3.2 BILLION PROJECT, THE LITTLE I KNOW ABOUT

CONSTRUCTION, DOING IT FOR 50 YEARS, I'LL TELL YOU IT WILL BE MINISCULE TO

DO THAT. AND LET'S HAVE THIS CONVERSATION AGAIN THE FIRST WEEK IN

JANUARY. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN'T COME TOGETHER IN THIS REGARD.

WE ALL LIKE RENEWABLE ENERGY, LET'S MAKE IT RIGHT FOR OUR COMMUNITIES,

ALL OF OUR COMMUNITIES. NOT JUST UPSTATE, NOT JUST IN BUFFALO, BUT LONG

ISLAND AS WELL. AND BY THE WAY, BROOKLYN IS NOT IN LONG ISLAND EVEN IF

IT LOOKS THAT WAY IN THE TOPOGRAPHY, WITH DEFERENCE TO MY COLLEAGUE.

FOR THOSE REASONS, MR. SPEAKER, I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BROWN IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MS. FORREST TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. FORREST: THANK YOU, SPEAKER. MR. SPEAKER.

AS A NATIVE LONG ISLANDER, BECAUSE BROOKLYN IS ON LONG ISLAND, I

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SUPPORT THIS PASSAGE OF THIS LEGISLATION. IT HAS STATEWIDE IMPLICATIONS,

THERE IS NOT A PLACE IN NEW YORK THAT HAS NOT FELT THE -- THE EFFECTS OF

CLIMATE CHANGE. SO THUS, NO PLACE SHOULD BE EXEMPT FROM ADDING TO A

WHOLESOME SOLUTION. AND SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS BILL IS

ACTUALLY SAYING, IT IS AUTHORIZING AN OPTION. IT IS AUTHORIZING THE

CONVERSATION TO INCLUDE THE COMMUNITY, TO INCLUDE ALL PERSON. AND

THIS AUTHORIZATION HAS BEEN APPROVED BY PEOPLE ON LONG ISLAND, FELLOW

LONG ISLANDERS LIKE MYSELF, RIGHT? THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVES IT.

LABOR APPROVES THIS CONVERSATION TO -- TO BEGIN. AND SO ANY OTHER

ARGUMENTS THAT SAY THAT THIS IS A BLOCKAGE TO CON -- CONVERSATION IS

QUITE DISINGENUOUS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO THE SPONSOR, CONGRATULATIONS

ON YOUR BILL. I AM SO EXCITED TO VOTE YES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. FORREST IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. BROOK-KRASNY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BROOK-KRASNY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER,

FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. MR. SPEAKER, ONCE UPON A TIME

THERE WAS A COUNTRY UP NORTH CALLED THE SOVIET UNION. IT WAS VERY

COMPLICATED HISTORY. THE -- THE COUNTRY WAS VERY WELL-KNOWN FOR

HUGE INDUSTRIAL PROJECTS LIKE SPACE PROGRAM, HUGE RAILROAD FROM

MOSCOW TO VLADIVOSTOK, THROUGH THE WHOLE COUNTRY. A LOT OF BIG

PROJECTS. AND EVERY TIME THE GOVERNMENT WAS SAYING, THIS IS ALL FOR

THE COUNTRY, THIS IS ALL FOR THE STATE, THIS IS ALL FOR THE PEOPLE. IN THE

PROCESS, THE COUNTRY WAS LOSING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, BUT FOR THE

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GOVERNMENT OF SOVIET UNION IT WAS A COLLATERAL DAMAGE. AND THE MOST

IMPORTANT THING FOR THE GOVERNOR -- FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF SOVIET

UNION WAS TO HAVE THAT SPACE PROGRAM, TO HAVE THAT HUGE RAILROAD.

FORGET ABOUT PEOPLE. AND THAT GOVERNMENT NEVER SPOKE TO THE PEOPLE.

NEVER. THEY'D BE DOING WHATEVER THEY WANT. THIS IS A WONDERFUL

PROJECT, WONDERFUL PROJECT. BUT I HOPE THAT STATE OF NEW YORK IS NOT A

SOVIET UNION STILL, SO THE PEOPLE IN THE 20TH DISTRICT CAN HAVE AN

OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO THE PROPONENTS OF THIS PROJECT. AN OPPORTUNITY

NOT TO BECOME A COLLATERAL DAMAGE IN THE PROCESS OF CREATING A

RENEWABLE ENERGY FOR THE STATE, FOR THE COUNTRY.

LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT PEOPLE. AND BECAUSE I SEE A

SITUATION WHERE GOVERNMENT IS FORGETTING PEOPLE AGAIN, IN PARTICULAR IN

THE 20TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT, I'M VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU

VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. REILLY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE

OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. YOU KNOW, I LISTENED INTENTLY TO THE

DEBATE. I LISTENED TO WHETHER IT WAS A LOCAL BILL, WHETHER IT WAS A

STATEWIDE BILL. BUT ONE THING THAT I HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS THAT

THE LOCAL CONTROL WAS THE ISSUE AND THE CONSTITUENTS THERE WEREN'T BEING

HEARD AND THE LOCAL REPRESENTATIVES WEREN'T BEING HOLD -- BEING HEARD.

NOW, THE ISSUE BECOMES THERE'S 150 OF US IN THIS BODY AND 63 NEXT

DOOR. IF IT COMES TO YOUR DISTRICT, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO WHEN IT

IMPACTS TRAFFIC, WHEN IT IMPACTS EVERYTHING, AND THEY'RE CALLING YOUR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

OFFICE COMPLAINING? WHO ARE WE GONNA REFER THEM TO? BECAUSE THIS

IS AN EXAMPLE OF OUR HANDS BEING TIED WHEN YOU REPRESENT THAT AREA.

AM I GONNA TELL THEM TO CALL THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL? I AM GONNA TELL

THEM TO CALL NYSERDA? AM I GONNA TELL THEM TO CALL THE SPEAKER

AND MAYBE THE LEADER OF THE SENATE? BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU'RE THE

MEMBER THAT HAD THAT AREA, YOUR HANDS ARE TIED BEHIND YOUR BACK. YOU

CAN'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE WE'RE JUST GOING TO SAY IT'S A STATEWIDE BILL.

WHEN DOES IT END? JUST REMEMBER, NEXT YEAR IT COULD BE YOU.

I'M A NO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. REILLY IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WHILE WE'RE

JUST KIND OF KILLING TIME WAITING FOR THOSE FEW EXTRA FOLKS TO COME ON

IN AND CAST THEIR BALLOT, I THOUGHT I'D JUST EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: I WAS REALLY HAPPY EARLIER THIS YEAR

WHEN SOME OF THE HOUSING PROPOSALS FELL DOWN LARGELY OVER ISSUES OF,

YOU KNOW, THE -- THE GOVERNMENT SAYING, WE'RE GOING TO SET THIS

AMBITIOUS HOUSING GOAL IN YOUR COMMUNITY AND IF YOU DON'T DO IT ON

YOUR OWN, WE'RE GONNA DO IT FOR YOU. SITING OF SOLAR ON FARMLAND HAS

BEEN AN ISSUE. I HEARD A LOT OF CONVERSATION TONIGHT ABOUT -- OR TODAY,

EARLIER TODAY, ABOUT COYOTES BUT WE DON'T SEEM TO CARE AS MUCH ABOUT

THE WHALES. I THINK THAT EVERYONE'S TALKING ABOUT THE HOME RULE ISSUE,

AND I GET THAT. I THINK THAT'S A REAL CONCERN. I THINK REALLY WHAT IT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

COMES DOWN TO FOR ME IS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, 50 YEARS AGO OR SO

THEY PLOWED DOWN A WHOLE BUNCH OF HOUSING HERE TO CREATE THIS

EMPIRE PLAZA THAT WE COME TO WORK EVERY DAY AND -- AND COME TO

VISIT. AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS FOR THE GREATER GOOD. AND HOW -- I THINK

WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO FOR ME IS WHEN IT COMES TO THESE CLIMATE GOALS

OR HOUSING GOALS OR HOW WE WANT THE CAPITOL TO LOOK, YOU KNOW, HOW

DO WE DEFINE THE GREATER GOOD AND WHAT -- WHO ARE WE WILLING TO KIND

OF STEP ON TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

SO I THINK THAT THE HOME RULE PIECE FOR ME, EVERYONE

HAS EXPRESSED DISCOMFORT WITH IT. I'M GONNA PUT MY NO VOTE BEHIND IT.

I THINK THAT AS WE START TO TRY TO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR CLIMATE GOALS AND

MOVE FORWARD, I THINK WE HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL. WE -- WE'VE SET

EXTREMELY AMBITIOUS GOALS, AND SOME OF US HAVE SAID AND HAVE ARGUED

THAT THEY'RE NOT REALLY ATTAINABLE. I THINK THAT IN ORDER TO TRY TO START TO

ATTAIN THEM, I THINK THAT WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER AND NOT BE SO

WILLING TO COME INTO SOMEBODY ELSE'S DISTRICT TO MAKE IT HAPPEN AND

THEN JUST CHALK IT UP TO THE GREATER GOOD.

SO I'LL BE A NO. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. I -- I UNDERSTAND THAT INCLUSIVE IN THIS BILL IS AN OPPORTUNITY

TO BEGIN REAL INTENSE EDUCATION AND PLANNING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE

AND AROUND COMMUNITIES NOT JUST THAT ARE IMPACTED OR HAVE BEEN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

IMPACTED BY ENVIRONMENTAL CHANGES, BUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN

IMPACTED BUT ARE GONNA HAVE TO CHANGE THEIR LIFESTYLES. AND SO I -- I

THINK THAT'S A HUGE PIECE OF HOW WE BEGIN WORKING ON CLIMATE CHANGE

IS EVERYBODY HAS TO BE ENGAGED. ALL COMMUNITIES, ALL INCOME LEVELS,

ALL EDUCATION LEVELS. AND THERE MUST BE A WAY TO GET THAT STARTED. IN

SOME WAYS WE'VE ALREADY STARTED THAT WITH THIS PAST BUDGET THAT WE JUST

WENT THROUGH, BUT I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE TO DO AND I THINK THIS BILL

CAN BE VERY HELPFUL TO HELPING MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM CLERK, WILL YOU

PLEASE RECOGNIZE OUR COLLEAGUES THAT ARE ON ZOOM FOR THEIR VOTES,

PLEASE?

THE CLERK: MR. ALVAREZ, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE

STATE YOUR NAME AND HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.

MR. ALVAREZ, WILL YOU PLEASE TURN ON YOUR MIC?

MR. ALVAREZ: YEAH, IT -- IT'S IS ON NOW.

THE CLERK: PLEASE STATE --

MR. ALVAREZ: CAN YOU HEAR ME?

THE CLERK: YES. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND HOW

YOU WISH TO VOTE.

MR. ALVAREZ: GEORGE ALVAREZ, AND I VOTE

AFFIRMATIVE.

THE CLERK: MR. ALVAREZ IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE

YOUR NAME AND HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: RODNEYSE BICHOTTE

HERMELYN, AND I WILL VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

THE CLERK: MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. DIPIETRO, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME

AND HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.

MR. DIPIETRO: PROFESSIONAL LIARS. ARE WE ON?

THE CLERK: YES, SIR.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. DIPIETRO: OKAY. DAVID DIPIETRO. THIS IS A

TRAVESTY. GOD BLESS ARI BROWN. I VOTE NO.

THE CLERK: MR. DIPIETRO IN THE NEGATIVE.

MR. FRIEND, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND

HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.

MR. FRIEND: CHRISTOPHER FRIEND, I VOTE NO.

THE CLERK: MR. FRIEND IN THE NEGATIVE.

MS. HYNDMAN, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME

AND HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.

MS. HYNDMAN: ALICIA HYNDMAN, I VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

THE CLERK: MS. HYNDMAN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. JEAN-PIERRE, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR

NAME AND HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

MS. JEAN-PIERRE: KIMBERLY JEAN-PIERRE, I VOTE IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

THE CLERK: MS. JEAN-PIERRE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. KIM, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND

HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.

MR. KIM: RON KIM, I VOTE YES.

THE CLERK: MR. KIM IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. LUCAS, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND

HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.

MS. LUCAS: NIKKI LUCAS, I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

THE CLERK: MS. LUCAS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. MCDONOUGH, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR

NAME AND HOW YOU WISH TO VOTE.

(PAUSE)

MR. MCDONOUGH, PLEASE TURN YOUR MIC ON.

MR. MCDONOUGH: DAVE MCDONOUGH, AND I VOTE

IN THE NEGATIVE.

THE CLERK: MR. MCDONOUGH IN THE NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. I RISE TO A POINT OF

ORDER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: STATE YOUR POINT OF

ORDER, PLEASE.

MR. GOODELL: I HAVE TWO. FIRST, ARTICLE III,

SECTION 15 SAYS THAT NO PRIVATE OR LOCAL BILL WHICH MIGHT BE PASSED BY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE LEGISLATURE SHALL EMBRACE MORE THAN ONE SUBJECT, AND THAT SUBJECT

HAS TO BE EXPRESSED IN THE TITLE. AND IT GOES ON TO DESCRIBE WHAT A

LOCAL BILL IS IN SECTION 17 WHICH INCLUDES, AND I QUOTE, "GRANTING ANY

CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION OR INDIVIDUAL TO WRITE -- WELL, I APOLOGIZE --

"ANY EXCLUSIVE PRIVILEGE, IMMUNITY OR FRANCHISE." AND IT IS CLEAR THAT

THE VERY PURPOSE OF THIS BILL IS TO GRANT A SPECIFIC PRIVATE COMPANY THE

ABILITY TO USE A PUBLIC PARK FOR PRIVATE USE. SO I BELIEVE THAT THIS BILL

SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A PRIVATE BILL AND, ACCORDINGLY, THE PROVISIONS

THAT INCORPORATE REFERENCES TO NYSERDA AND OTHER ENTITIES IS

IMPROPER AND THE BILL SHOULD BE STRICKEN, SPLIT INTO AND RE-PRESENTED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON YOUR POINT OF

ORDER, ONE MINUTE.

(PAUSE)

MR. GOODELL, ON YOUR POINT OF ORDER MY COUNSEL TELLS

ME THAT THE TWO SECTIONS SO CITED ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS BILL SINCE

THIS IS STILL A STATEWIDE BILL.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE, SIR. AND ISN'T THE ALIENATION

PROVISIONS OF THIS BILL INTENDED TO BENEFIT A PARTICULAR PRIVATE

COMPANY?

(PAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THIS BILL DOES NOT

ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU INDICATED THAT IT DOES. THE ALIENATION THAT ALLOWS

THE LOCALITY TO NEGOTIATE WITH A GROUP OF ENTITIES OVER THE -- AND IT'S STILL

A STATEWIDE BILL, SO...

MR. GOODELL: INDEED. MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD BE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

DELIGHTED IF IT DIDN'T DO WHAT I WAS AFRAID IT WOULD DO. BUT LET ME RAISE

ONE OTHER QUESTION, IF I MAY. ARTICLE III, SECTION 20 SAYS THE ASSENT OF

TWO-THIRDS OF THE MEMBERS ELECTED TO EACH BRANCH OF THE LEGISLATURE

SHALL BE REQUISITE TO EVERY BILL APPROPRIATING PROPERTY FOR LOCAL OR

PRIVATE PURPOSES. AND I KNOW WE HAVE USED THIS IN THE PAST WHEN WE

DEALT WITH THE SALE OR TRANSFER OF PROPERTY. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE

AUTHORIZATION FOR THE ALIENATION OF THIS PROPERTY FOR THE BENEFIT OF A

PRIVATE GROUP OR INDIVIDUAL WOULD TRIGGER THIS TWO-THIRDS VOTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO, IT WOULD APPEAR

THAT THIS APPLIES -- THE ARTICLES YOU STATE APPLIES WHEN STATE MONEY IS

APPROPRIATED FOR LOCAL OR PRIVATE PURPOSE, BUT DOESN'T -- WE DON'T HAVE

STATE PROPERTY OR FUNDS SUBJECT TO AN APPROPRIATION IN THIS BILL, AND IT

IS...

MR. GOODELL: SIR, ISN'T THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF THIS

LEGISLATION TO OPEN THE DOOR FOR A MASSIVE STATE SUBSIDY FOR THIS VERY

PROJECT? AND THE LEGISLATION AND THE EXPLANATION THAT WE HAVE HEARD

TODAY IS THAT THIS LEGISLATION IS NEEDED SPECIFICALLY TO ENABLE THIS

PROJECT TO PROCEED WITH THE FINANCIAL SUPPORT OF THE STATE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE -- WE HAVE A --

ACTUALLY, THAT'S RIGHT.

MS. GLICK: MR. SPEAKER, THERE'S A VOTE ON THE FLOOR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE ARE REMINDED

THERE IS A VOTE ON THE -- ON THE FLOOR. WE -- WE HAVE DISCUSSED THIS

BILL, WE UNDERSTAND ITS PURPOSE IS TO INITIATE THE PROCESS FOR THE LOCAL

DISCUSSION AS WELL AS A STATEWIDE PURPOSE. AND SO WE FIND YOUR POINT

270

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

OF ORDER NOT WELL-TAKEN. THANK YOU.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR, FOR ADDRESSING

THOSE ISSUES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

(APPLAUSE)

I BELIEVE THAT'S THE CALL FOR ICE CREAM.

(LAUGHTER)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF WE CAN

NOW GO TO THE RULES -- RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3 ON THE B-CALENDAR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE

3 --

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: AND MR. SPEAKER, WE'RE

GOING TO CONSENT THESE IN ORDER, IF YOU WILL, PLEASE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. THERE

WILL BE A VOTE ON THESE RESOLUTIONS.

RESOLUTION NO. 714, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 714, MR.

HEASTIE.

ESTABLISHING A PLAN SETTING FORTH AN ITEMIZED LIST OF

GRANTEES FOR A CERTAIN APPROPRIATION FOR THE 2023-2024 STATE FISCAL YEAR

FOR GRANTS IN AID FOR SERVICES AND EXPENSES OF THE EDUCATION

271

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

DEPARTMENT, HUMAN SERVICES ORGANIZATIONS, CRIMINAL JUSTICE

ORGANIZATIONS AND MUNICIPAL ENTITIES, HEALTH AND MENTAL HEALTH

PROGRAMS AND PROVIDERS, PUBLIC PARKS AND RECREATIONAL PROGRAMS,

VETERANS' ORGANIZATIONS SERVICES, OLDER ADULTS PROGRAMS, VARIOUS

NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES, AND EDWARD BYRNE MEMORIAL GRANTS, AS

REQUIRED BY A PLAN SETTING FORTH AN ITEMIZED LIST OF GRANTEES WITH THE

AMOUNT TO BE RECEIVED BY EACH, OR THE METHODOLOGY FOR ALLOCATING SUCH

APPROPRIATION. SUCH PLAN SHALL BE SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF THE

SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY AND THE DIRECTOR OF THE BUDGET AND THEREAFTER

SHALL BE INCLUDED IN A RESOLUTION CALLING FOR THE EXPENDITURE OF SUCH

MONIES, WHICH RESOLUTION MUST BE APPROVED BY A MAJORITY VOTE OF ALL

MEMBERS ELECTED TO THE ASSEMBLY UPON A ROLL CALL VOTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 715, MR.

HEASTIE.

ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION AMENDING ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION

R 2002 OF 2008 ESTABLISHING A PLAN SETTING FORTH AN ITEMIZED LIST OF

GRANTEES FOR THE NEW YORK STATE CAPITAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM

ESTABLISHED PURSUANT TO AN APPROPRIATION IN THE 2008-2009 STATE FISCAL

YEAR AND IN PART QQ OF CHAPTER 57 OF THE LAWS OF 2008.

272

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01715, RULES REPORT

NO. 872, GOODELL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN

RELATION TO DESIGNATING UNIFORMED COURT OFFICERS IN THE TOWN OF BUSTI,

COUNTY OF CHAUTAUQUA, AS PEACE OFFICERS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY -- ASSEMBLY NO. A01971,

RULES REPORT NO. 873, GOODELL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE UNIFORM CITY

COURT ACT, IN RELATION TO THE SELECTION OF CERTAIN CITY COURT JUDGES IN

THE CITY OF JAMESTOWN.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04250, RULES REPORT

NO. 874, RA, BLUMENCRANZ, LAVINE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY

LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM

AS THE "TROOPER THEODORE A. DOBBS MEMORIAL BRIDGE."

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

RA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. RA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY

VOTE. TROOPER THEODORE DOBBS DIED ALMOST 100 YEARS AGO. IT WAS

SEPTEMBER 29, 1924. HE WAS 24 YEARS OLD, FROM COMPLICATIONS OF

INJURIES ON A MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT ON LONG ISLAND. HE WAS RIDING ON

HIS MOTORCYCLE, WAS STRUCK BY A TRUCK ON JERICHO TURNPIKE AND -- AND

LATER DIED FROM HIS INJURIES. AND HE WAS ACTUALLY THE FIRST MEMBER OF

TROOP K TO LOSE HIS LIFE IN THE PERFORMANCE OF HIS DUTIES.

SO I'M PROUD TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CARRY THIS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PIECE OF LEGISLATION. I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE

COSPONSORED IT, AS WELL AS MY COLLEAGUE MS. GIGLIO, WHO HAS BEEN

INVOLVED IN TRYING TO FACILITATE RECOGNIZING SO MANY OF THESE TROOPERS

WHO LOST THEIR LIVES IN THE PAST. SO THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE TRIBUTE, AND I

THANK EVERYBODY FOR VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON IT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04606-B, RULES --

RULES REPORT NO. 875, MCGOWAN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TOWN LAW, IN

RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF ORANGETOWN, COUNTY OF ROCKLAND,

TO ESTABLISH COMMUNITY PRESERVATION FUNDS; TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN

RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF ORANGETOWN TO IMPOSE A REAL

ESTATE TRANSFER TAX WITH REVENUES THEREFROM TO BE DEPOSITED IN SAID

COMMUNITY PRESERVATION FUND; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN

PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MCGOWAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

275

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05349-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 876, TAGUE. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 333 OF THE LAWS OF

2006 AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF

SCHOHARIE TO IMPOSE A COUNTY RECORDING TAX ON OBLIGATION SECURED BY A

MORTGAGE ON REAL PROPERTY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS

THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

TAGUE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. TAGUE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. TAGUE: MR. SPEAKER, JUST TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE,

SIR. THROUGH YOU I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THIS BILL HAS A HOME RULE ON

IT, SIR. THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE/LAUGHTER)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. TAGUE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05361, RULES REPORT

NO. 877, GOODELL, DESTEFANO, E. BROWN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATE LAW, IN RELATION TO EXEMPTING THE EAST

DUNKIRK VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANY, INC. FROM THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE

PERCENTAGE OF NONRESIDENT FIRE DEPARTMENT MEMBERS NOT EXCEED 45

PERCENT OF THE MEMBERSHIP.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

GOODELL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05439, RULES REPORT

NO. 878, BARCLAY, HAWLEY, NORRIS, MORINELLO, LEMONDES, DESTEFANO,

J.M. GIGLIO, BLANKENBUSH, JENSEN, BRABENEC. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO FLOOD INSURANCE NOTICE IN COMMUNITIES

BORDERING LAKE ONTARIO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

277

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05930-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 879, MORINELLO. AN ACT TO REPEAL SECTION 926-O OF THE

GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW RELATING TO THE TOWN OF NIAGARA INDUSTRIAL

DEVELOPMENT AGENCY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MORINELLO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05941, RULES REPORT

NO. 880, GOODELL. AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE TOWNS OF HARMONY AND

NORTH HARMONY IN CHAUTAUQUA COUNTY TO ELECT A SINGLE TOWN JUSTICE TO

PRESIDE IN THE TOWN COURTS OF SUCH TOWNS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

278

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06387, RULES REPORT

NO. 881, J.M. GIGLIO. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 98 OF THE LAWS OF

2009 AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF

CATTARAUGUS TO IMPOSE AN ADDITIONAL MORTGAGE RECORDING TAX, IN

RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

[SIC] GIGLIO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06426-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 882, RA. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF

NASSAU ASSESSOR TO ACCEPT AN APPLICATION FOR A REAL PROPERTY TAX

EXEMPTION FROM NEW YORK JESUS BAPTIST CHURCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

279

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

RA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06498, RULES REPORT

NO. 883, BARCLAY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

EXTENDING THE AUTHORIZATION OF THE COUNTY OF OSWEGO TO IMPOSE AN

ADDITIONAL 1 PERCENT OF SALES AND COMPENSATING USE TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BARCLAY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06519, RULES REPORT

NO. 884, BARCLAY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

280

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

EXTENDING THE AUTHORIZATION OF THE CITY OF OSWEGO TO IMPOSE AN

ADDITIONAL 1 PERCENT OF SALES AND COMPENSATING USE TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BARCLAY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06581-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 885, GOODELL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

ALLOCATION OF REVENUE FROM THE HOTEL AND MOTEL TAXES IN CHAUTAUQUA

COUNTY; TO AMEND CHAPTER 405 OF THE LAWS OF 2007, AMENDING THE

TAX LAW RELATING TO INCREASING HOTEL/MOTEL TAXES IN CHAUTAUQUA

COUNTY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF SUCH PROVISIONS; TO

REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE TAX LAW RELATING THERETO; AND

PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

GOODELL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

281

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06692-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 886, GOODELL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

EXTENDING THE AUTHORIZATION FOR CHAUTAUQUA COUNTY TO IMPOSE AN

ADDITIONAL 1 PERCENT RATE OF SALES AND COMPENSATING USE TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

GOODELL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. BYRNES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

(PAUSE)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06920, RULES REPORT

NO. 887, GUNTHER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN

RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE MIDDLETOWN PARKING AUTHORITY AND

282

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

PROVIDING FOR ITS POWERS, DUTIES AND OBLIGATIONS; TO REPEAL CERTAIN

PROVISIONS OF THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW RELATING THERETO; AND

PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MRS.

GUNTHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07026, RULES REPORT

NO. 888, BARCLAY, GALLAHAN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION

TO EXTENDING THE AUTHORIZATION OF THE COUNTY OF CAYUGA TO IMPOSE AN

ADDITIONAL 1 PERCENT OF SALES AND COMPENSATING USE TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BARCLAY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

283

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07080, RULES REPORT

NO. 889, RA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE NASSAU COUNTY CIVIL DIVISIONS ACT,

IN RELATION TO THE VOLUNTEER AND EXEMPT FIREMEN'S BENEVOLENT

ASSOCIATION OF WILLISTON PARK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

RA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07082, RULES REPORT

NO. 890, WALSH. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 203 OF THE LAWS OF 1957

AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF BALLSTON, SARATOGA COUNTY, TO ESTABLISH A

PUBLIC LIBRARY FOR THAT PART OF THE TOWN LOCATED OUTSIDE OF THE

INCORPORATED VILLAGE OF BALLSTON SPA, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR THE

ELECTION OF TRUSTEES AND VOTER APPROVAL OF THE TAX LEVY OF SUCH LIBRARY

DISTRICT; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 672 OF THE LAWS OF 1993, AMENDING THE

PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW RELATING TO THE CONSTRUCTION AND FINANCING OF

FACILITIES FOR CERTAIN PUBLIC LIBRARIES, IN RELATION TO INCLUDING THE

284

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

BALLSTON COMMUNITY PUBLIC LIBRARY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

WALSH, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07132, RULES REPORT

NO. 891, TAGUE. AN ACT EXTENDING THE TIME WITHIN WHICH CERTAIN

ELECTED OFFICERS MAY FILE THEIR OATHS OF OFFICE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: HOME RULE MESSAGE

IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07220, RULES REPORT

285

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

NO. 892, PHEFFER AMATO, COLTON, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE CALCULATION OF

PAST SERVICE CREDIT FOR POLICE OFFICES EMPLOYED BY THE DIVISION OF LAW

ENFORCEMENT IN THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION IN THE

CITY OF NEW YORK TRANSFERRING BETWEEN THE NEW YORK CITY

EMPLOYEES' RETIREMENT SYSTEM TO THE NEW YORK STATE AND LOCAL

POLICE AND FIRE RETIREMENT SYSTEM.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER LEE: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07272, RULES REPORT

NO. 893, ANDERSON, MEEKS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE BANKING LAW, IN

RELATION TO PERMITTING THE SUBMISSION OF APPLICATIONS FOR BANKING

DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT DESIGNATIONS REGARDLESS OF THE DATE THE APPLICANT

OPENED.

ACTING SPEAKER LEE: ON A MOTION BY MR.

286

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ANDERSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER LEE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE

VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07285-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 894, MIKULIN. AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF NASSAU

ASSESSOR TO ACCEPT AN APPLICATION FOR A REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION

FROM THE EAST MEADOW FIRE DISTRICT.

ACTING SPEAKER LEE: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MIKULIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER LEE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE

VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07413, RULES REPORT

287

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

NO. 895, LEMONDES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW, IN

RELATION TO PERMITTING THE AUBURN ENLARGED CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT TO

ESTABLISH AN INSURANCE RESERVE FUND.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

LEMONDES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07724, RULES REPORT

NO. 896, CLARK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO

RESTRICTED CLINICAL LABORATORY LICENSES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

CLARK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

THE BILL IS PASSED.

(APPLAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF I COULD

JUST THANK COLLEAGUES FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE FOR THEIR COOPERATION

IN THESE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ONE MINUTE, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WOULD YOU PLEASE COME IN AND

HAVE A SEAT? A LITTLE BIT OF TIME, COME BACK IN THE CHAMBER, SIT DOWN,

PLEASE. EVERYBODY SETTLE DOWN FOR A MINUTE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: I WANTED TO TAKE THIS

MOMENT BEFORE WE CLOSE OUR LAST SESSION FOR THIS YEAR, WE THINK, JUST

TO REALLY THANK MEMBERS FOR THEIR COOPERATION. AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT

OUR CHAMBER LOOKS A LOT BETTER WHEN PEOPLE ARE SITTING IN THEIR SEAT. IT

REALLY DOES.

(APPLAUSE)

AND SO ALTHOUGH I KNOW IT'S A LOT MORE COMFORTABLE IN

YOUR OFFICES, BECAUSE MY OFFICE IS PRETTY COMFORTABLE, TOO, BUT THE

CHAMBER DOES LOOK BETTER WITH YOU IN YOUR SEAT. YOU LOOK GOOD, I

THANK YOU. I'M GLAD YOU'RE HERE. AND I WILL ALSO SAY THIS: DID YOU ALL

-- IN THESE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS HAVE SENT THE SPEAKER SO MANY TEXTS

ABOUT BILLS THAT YOU WANTED TO GET IN AND HE TRIED TO DO HIS BEST. YOU

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HAVE LITERALLY WORN HIM OUT, HE'S NOT COMING OUT HERE TO SAY GOODBYE

AND ALL THOSE GRAND SPEECHES THAT HE USED TO MAKE. BUT WE HAVE TO

APPLAUD SPEAKER HEASTIE FOR THE WORK THAT HE HAS DONE (INAUDIBLE).

(APPLAUSE/CHEERS)

AND SPEAKER AUBRY, I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DO NOT

REALLY THANK YOU FOR THE GRACIOUS MANNER IN WHICH YOU HANDLE

MANAGING THIS CHAMBER. I LOVE YOUR CANDOR, I LOVE YOUR

STRAIGHTFORWARD FRANKNESS, AND I REALLY LOVE YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR. YOU

DO A MARVELOUS JOB, SIR, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH.

(APPLAUSE/CHEERS)

NOW, I -- I CANNOT FORGET THE PERSON WHO HELPED THE

SPEAKER GET MOST OF WHAT HE GETS DONE, THAT'S JEN BEST AND HER TEAM

WITH JULIA. THEY DO AN AMAZING JOB. AND CERTAINLY --

(APPLAUSE)

-- STANDING VERY CLOSE TO JEN IS DEB MILLER,

(INAUDIBLE) SHE WALKS IN AND OUT ON A REGULAR BASIS.

(APPLAUSE)

AND CHRISSY, WHO IS ALWAYS READING THOSE LAW BOOKS,

THANK YOU, CHRISSY, FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO.

(APPLAUSE)

AND LAST, BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, I HAVE TO, YOU KNOW,

REALLY GIVE A LOT OF CREDIT TO THIS YOUNG MAN FOR KEEPING ME IN ORDER

BECAUSE I'M TELLING YOU, SOMETIMES I WANT TO POP OFF.

(APPLAUSE)

YES, HE DOES A PHENOMENAL JOB.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I'M REALLY GRATEFUL TO HAVE

THIS OPPORTUNITY. I THANK YOU, AND NOW I WOULD LIKE YOU TO GIVE YOUR

ATTENTION TO MY COLLEAGUE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, MR. GOODELL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: FOR THE LAST TIME, I

HOPE, FOR A WHILE, MR. GOODELL.

(APPLAUSE/LAUGHTER)

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I HOPE I

SAY THAT FOR THE LAST TIME, TOO.

(LAUGHTER)

WHAT AN HONOR IT IS TO BE WITH ALL OF YOU HERE ON THE

FLOOR OF THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY. SO MANY PEOPLE ASPIRE TO

HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHAPE THE FUTURE OF OUR GREAT STATE, AND EACH OF

YOU HAVE PLAYED A SPECIAL ROLE. AND SO I AM EXTRAORDINARILY THANKFUL

THAT I HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH ALL OF YOU. AND OF COURSE

AS YOU KNOW, WHILE I MAY RAISE POINTS OF ORDER, MAY EVEN ASK YOU A

FEW QUESTIONS, I AM THANKFUL THAT ALL OF YOU HAVE SHOWN ALL OF US

RESPECT AND THOUGHTFULNESS AND HAVE DONE YOUR BEST TO ANSWER OUR

QUESTIONS. AND I WILL SHARE WITH YOU THAT WHEN WE ASK A THOUGHTFUL

QUESTION, IT'S OFTEN BECAUSE WE'RE BACKED BY THOUGHTFUL, THOROUGH,

CAPABLE PEOPLE WHO ARE GIVING US THAT RESEARCH. AND SO BEHIND EACH

ONE OF US IS A WHOLE TEAM OF EXPERTS, AND WE ARE SO INDEBTED TO THEIR

KNOWLEDGE AND THEIR CAPABILITIES. AND LEADING US ON THE MINORITY SIDE

IS WILL BARCLAY.

(APPLAUSE)

IT'S NO ACCIDENT THAT I HAVE TWO PHONES NEXT TO MY

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DESK SO THAT WILL CAN ALWAYS GET THROUGH AND GIVE ME GOOD ADVICE.

WILL, YOU AND YOUR STAFF HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLE. THANK YOU, THANK YOU,

THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

AND OF COURSE ALL OF YOU KNOW AND LOOK FORWARD TO

THE TIME WHEN I STEP OFF THE FLOOR AND MARY BETH TAKES OVER.

(APPLAUSE/LAUGHTER)

AND NO ONE APPRECIATES MARY BETH MORE THAN I DO

WHEN I STEP OFF THE FLOOR AND SHE TAKES OVER. MARY BETH, THANK YOU FOR

A PHENOMENAL JOB.

(APPLAUSE)

AND JUST AS JOHN KNIGHT DOES HIS VERY BEST TO KEEP

CRYSTAL HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION -- THANK YOU, JOHN -- MICHELLE

PELLEGRI DOES THE SAME FOR ME.

(APPLAUSE)

AND ON YOUR SIDE, ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, YOU HAVE

HELENE WEINSTEIN HEADING UP WAYS AND MEANS. WHAT AN INCREDIBLE

LADY.

(APPLAUSE)

AND ALL OF YOU KNOW ON OUR SIDE WE HAVE ED RA AND A

PHENOMENAL TEAM.

(APPLAUSE)

A SPECIAL THANKS TO MY COLLEAGUE AND FRIEND CRYSTAL

PEOPLES-STOKES. WHAT A GREAT (INAUDIBLE).

(APPLAUSE)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

AND MR. AUBRY, EVEN THOUGH YOU OCCASIONALLY CALL

ME OUT OF ORDER INCORRECTLY --

(LAUGHTER)

-- YOU DO A PHENOMENAL JOB AND ARE SUCH A CREDIT TO

THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY. YOU ARE

OUR FACE IN SO MANY WAYS, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT INCREDIBLE WORK.

(APPLAUSE/CHEERS)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU MAKE ME GET UP.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. GOODELL: AND LAST OF COURSE, BUT CERTAINLY

NOT LEAST, THE GUYS THAT PROTECT US DAY IN AND DAY OUT, TELL US TO BE QUIET

AND SIT DOWN, WAYNE JACKSON AND HIS TEAM.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYBODY.

IT HAS BEEN A GREAT HONOR AND PLEASURE TO WORK WITH EACH AND EVERY

ONE OF YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

AND BEFORE WE TURN IT BACK OVER TO MRS. PEOPLES-

STOKES, LET ME SAY A FEW THINGS MYSELF. FIRST, TO BLAKE WASHINGTON

AND HIS INCREDIBLE CREW.

(APPLAUSE)

BLAKE ALWAYS KEEPS THE MONEY UNDER ONE SLEEVE OR

ANOTHER, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY HE NEVER TELLS YOU AN EXACT FIGURE. WELL,

MAYBE IT'S AROUND THAT. WE WANT TO THANK THEM, OBVIOUSLY. WE'RE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

ALSO HERE TO SAY GOODBYE TO A COLLEAGUE FROM QUEENS, A YOUNG MAN

THAT CAME TO US VERY YOUNG AND NOW HAS MATURED AND MOVING ON AND

WILL LEAVE US THIS YEAR, DANNY ROSENTHAL.

(APPLAUSE)

AND THE CHAIR WILL RECOGNIZE MR. ROSENTHAL FOR SOME

WORDS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T GIVE IT TO US OFTEN, YOU KNOW.

MR. ROSENTHAL: I'LL BE CONSISTENT THE WAY I HAVE

BEEN HERE THE ENTIRE TIME AND KEEP MY WORDS BRIEF. IT HAS TRULY BEEN

AN HONOR OF A LIFETIME TO SERVE WITH ALL OF YOU. IT HAS BEEN HUMBLING TO

MY CONSTITUENTS TO ALLOW ME TO REPRESENT THEM OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS.

I GOT HERE WHEN I WAS 26 YEARS OLD AND IT TRULY HAS BEEN AN AMAZING

EXPERIENCE, THE WORK THAT WE ARE ABLE TO DO HERE. REPRESENTING OUR

LOCAL COMMUNITIES, REPRESENTING OUR LOCAL SCHOOLS, OUR SENIORS, AND

THINGS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO BRING HOME TO OUR DISTRICT TO MAKE THEIR

LIVES A LITTLE EASIER HAS BEEN A TRULY AN AMAZING HONOR AND EXPERIENCE.

I WANT TO THANK SPEAKER HEASTIE FOR ALWAYS GIVING US THE TIME AND THE

RESPECT AND THE COURTESY AND KEEPING YOUR DOOR OPEN FOR US. IT IS TRULY

GRATEFUL FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP AND IT HAS BEEN AN HONOR TO SERVE IN YOUR

-- IN THIS CHAMBER WITH ALL OF YOU AND WE WILL -- I'LL MISS ALL OF YOU,

AND IT'S REALLY --, I THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU

HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I HAVE NOT A

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 21, 2023

RESOLUTION AND NO HOUSEKEEPING.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL. I

NOW MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, JUNE THE

22ND, TOMORROW BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT THE

SPEAKER, CARL HEASTIE.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

ADJOURNED.

(WHEREUPON, AT 8:23 P.M., THE HOUSE STOOD ADJOURNED

UNTIL THURSDAY, JUNE 22ND, THAT BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY, AND TO

RECONVENE AT THE CALL OF THE SPEAKER.)

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