FRIDAY, JUNE 7, 2024 11:33 A.M.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME
TO ORDER.
IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF
SILENCE.
(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)
VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE
OF ALLEGIANCE.
(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND
MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)
A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE
JOURNAL OF THURSDAY, JUNE THE 6TH.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO
DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF THURSDAY, JUNE THE
1
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
6TH, AND THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO
ORDERED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR. AS WE
ARE GATHERED HERE TODAY, I HAVE THIS QUICK LITTLE QUOTE TODAY FOR OUR
COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS, THIS ONE IS FROM
AGATHA CHRISTIE. MOST OF YOU HAVE HEARD OF HER, SHE'S AN ENGLISH
AUTHOR AND SHE WRITES DETECTIVE NOVELS. BUT HER WORDS FOR US TODAY,
JUST TO BE ALIVE IS A GRAND THING. AGAIN, AGATHA CHRISTIE. AND IT IS A
GRAND THING, NOT JUST TO BE ALIVE BUT TO BE HERE TODAY, MR. SPEAKER, AS
WE ATTEMPT TO CLOSE OUT THIS YEAR'S SESSION. I DO WANT TO SAY TO
MEMBERS THAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR DESK A MAIN CALENDAR AND YOU HAVE A
DEBATE LIST. WE'RE GONNA BE CALLING FOR THE FOLLOWING COMMITTEES OFF
THE FLOOR: WAYS AND MEANS, AND RULES. THESE COMMITTEES ARE GOING
TO PRODUCE AN A-CALENDAR OF WHICH WE DO PLAN TO TAKE UP TODAY. AFTER
ANY HOUSEKEEPING OR INTRODUCTIONS, WE'RE GONNA TAKE UP THE FOLLOWING
BILLS ON CONSENT: RULES REPORT 250 BY MR. CUNNINGHAM; RULES REPORT
354 BY MR. EPSTEIN; RULES REPORT 399 BY MR. SANTABARBARA; RULES
REPORT 413 BY MR. THIELE; RULES REPORT 429 BY MR. SAYEGH; RULES
REPORT 439 BY MS. REYES; RULES REPORT NO. 448 BY MR. STECK; AND
RULES REPORT 462 BY MS. ROSENTHAL. WE'RE THEN GOING TO CONSENT
FROM THE MAIN CALENDAR OF THE BILLS THAT WERE LEFT ON YESTERDAY'S B-
AND C-CALENDARS. WE'LL BEGIN WITH RULES REPORT 523 THROUGH RULES
REPORT 557. WE'RE THEN GOING TO WORK OFF THE DEBATE LIST, RULES
2
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
REPORT 434 BY MS. ROZIC -- I'M SORRY, RULES REPORT 534 BY MS. ROZIC;
RULES REPORT 535 BY MS. ROZIC; CALENDAR 43 BY MR. AUBRY; AND RULES
REPORT 194 BY MS. MCMAHON. THERE WILL PROBABLY BE A NEED TO
ANNOUNCE FURTHER FLOOR ACTIVITY AT SOME POINT, MR. SPEAKER. THERE'S NO
QUESTION THAT WE HAVE ANOTHER BUSY DAY AHEAD OF US, AND WE'RE GONNA
BE CALLING FOR FURTHER COMMITTEE MEETINGS AS WELL. THESE COMMITTEES
ARE GONNA PRODUCE ADDITIONAL CALENDARS. SO LIKE YESTERDAY WE HAD A
B- AND C- AND WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE B- AND C- AGAIN TODAY AS WELL.
THAT'S PRETTY MUCH A GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE
GOING. I WANT TO APPRECIATE PEOPLE'S PATIENCE. I KNOW THAT WE NOT ONLY
ARE CLOSING OUT OUR SESSION THIS YEAR, BUT WE HAVE MANY OF OUR
COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT GONNA BE COMING BACK WITH US NEXT YEAR, SO I
WANT TO PERSONALLY CONGRATULATE AND THANK THEM FOR THEIR SERVICE. AND
WE CAN GET STARTED, MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU HAVE HOUSEKEEPING.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE HAVE NO
HOUSEKEEPING, BUT AN ANNOUNCEMENT FROM YOU, MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: WELL, PERHAPS YOU CAN
CALL THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE
ROOM.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WAYS AND MEANS,
SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY, PLEASE. THANK YOU.
FOR THE PURPOSES OF A INTRODUCTION, MR. ZEBROWSKI.
MR. ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. LET'S
SEE IF I CAN DO THIS. IT GIVES ME GREAT PLEASURE TODAY TO INTRODUCE
SEVERAL MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY HERE WHO ARE WITH ME. FIRST OF ALL, MY
3
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WONDERFUL WIFE, CLARE, WHO HAS ALLOWED ME TO DO THIS FOR ALL THESE
YEARS. I HAVE MY NOW 6-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER REAGAN, WHO TURNS SIX
TODAY.
(APPLAUSE)
MY 4-YEAR-OLD SON, KENNY, AND MY 2-YEAR-OLD
DAUGHTER, NORA. THEY'VE JOINED ME HERE TODAY IN THE CAPITOL. BUT
ALSO, I HAVE MY SISTER WHO'S ALSO BEEN A BIG INFLUENCE IN MY LIFE,
KRISTEN ZEBROWSKI-STAVISKY, WHO IS IN THE BACK. AND KRISTEN ALSO
WORKS FOR ALL OF US AS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE STATE BOARD OF
ELECTIONS, SO SHE WALKED UP THE HILL EARLIER TODAY TO BE WITH US.
SO, MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU WOULD
WELCOME THEM TO THE CHAMBERS HERE. THEY'VE BEEN RUNNING AROUND
AND MAKING A PLAYGROUND OF THIS PLACE FOR A FEW HOURS SO... BUT THANK
YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF
OF YOUR FATHER, YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE
MEMBERS, WE WELCOME THIS GREAT FAMILY HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE
ASSEMBLY, EXTEND TO YOU AS FAMILY THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. ONCE A
MEMBER, ALWAYS A MEMBER. OUR DEEP REGRET THAT WE'RE LOSING YOU IN
THIS INSTITUTION; HOWEVER, THAT YOU HAVE THIS MARVELOUS FAMILY WHO
NOW GAIN MORE OF YOUR TIME ACTUALLY DOES MAKE US FEEL BETTER. PLEASE
KNOW THAT ALL OF YOU ARE WELCOME HERE ANY TIME YOU COME, AND THAT
YOUR WORK HERE, KEN, WILL ALWAYS BE APPRECIATED AND ALWAYS BE
REMEMBERED. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH, MY FRIEND.
(APPLAUSE)
4
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. SANTABARBARA FOR THE PURPOSES OF A INTRODUCTION.
MR. SANTABARBARA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
TODAY I HAVE THE HONOR OF INTRODUCING SOME EXCEPTIONAL INDIVIDUALS
REPRESENTING THE SCHENECTADY KIDS ARTS FESTIVAL, COMMITTEE MEMBERS
HEATHER HUTCHINSON, JOHN DEATON, AND ARTIST AND PERFORMER MARIO
JOHNSON JOINED US THIS MORNING. AND REPRESENTING THEM HERE TODAY IS
AMY SONDER. THE ARTS ARE ESSENTIAL TO OUR SOCIETY, THEY CREATE
CONNECTIONS, TEACH CRITICAL THINKING AND OFFER AVENUES TO ENTERTAIN AND
EDUCATE. THE SCHENECTADY KIDS ARTS FESTIVAL, WHICH BEGAN IN JUNE OF
1994 WAS BORN OUT OF A NECESSITY IN RESPONSE TO THE NEED FOR MORE ARTS
PROGRAMS IN OUR COMMUNITY. THIS GROUP OF VISIONARIES RECOGNIZED THE
IMPORTANCE OF ART IN EDUCATION AND ORGANIZED THE FESTIVAL IN
DOWNTOWN SCHENECTADY, MAKING IT ACCESSIBLE TO CHILDREN IN OUR -- OUR
CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT. AND THREE DECADES LATER, THE FESTIVAL CONTINUES TO
THRIVE, EXPANDING OUR CHILDREN'S HORIZONS THROUGH HANDS-ON EDUCATION,
ACTIVITIES AND PERFORMANCES. TO THIS DAY, IT REMAINS A BEACON OF
CREATIVITY, INSPIRATION AND COMMUNITY SPIRIT. THEIR DEDICATION AND
HARD WORK HAVE ENSURED THAT THIS FESTIVAL CONTINUES TO GROW AND
INSPIRE YEAR AFTER YEAR, AND THESE EXCEPTIONAL INDIVIDUALS ALL PLAYED A
PIVOTAL ROLE IN THE FESTIVAL'S SUCCESS. AND I WANT TO TAKE THIS
OPPORTUNITY TO CONGRATULATE ALL THE ORGANIZERS AND VOLUNTEERS ON THE
OCCASION OF ITS 30TH ANNIVERSARY THIS YEAR AND THANK THEM FOR THEIR
CONTRIBUTIONS. WE LOOK FORWARD TO MANY MORE YEARS OF FOSTERING
CREATIVITY AND INSPIRING OUR YOUTH.
MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE RECOGNIZE THESE
5
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
GUESTS AND WELCOME THEM TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER AND EXTEND TO
THEM ALL THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: CERTAINLY. ON
BEHALF OF MR. SANTABARBARA, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE
ASSEMBLY, WELCOME TODAY, THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO. I TRULY
UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT THE ARTS ARE, BEING A FORMER HIGH SCHOOL
TEACHER, AND THANK YOU FOR, YOU KNOW, MAKING THIS WORLD A BETTER AND
PRETTIER AND HAPPIER PLACE WITH WHAT YOU DO. YOU'RE WELCOME HERE
ANY TIME. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.
(APPLAUSE)
PAGE 7, RULES REPORT NO. 250, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08016-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 250, CUNNINGHAM, SANTABARBARA, DE LOS SANTOS. AN ACT
TO AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO MEMBERS OF A MOBILE
CRISIS TEAM.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 354, THE CLERK WILL READ.
6
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09755-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 354, EPSTEIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE
CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO AN EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN PROPERTY FROM THE
PROHIBITION OF ALCOHOL SALES WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE FROM A SCHOOL;
AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION
THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MR.
EPSTEIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 10, RULES REPORT NO. 399, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08582-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 399, SANTABARBARA, CONRAD, DAVILA, LEVENBERG, LEMONDES,
TAGUE, SILLITTI, STECK, BUTTENSCHON, JONES, BURDICK, WALSH, HUNTER
WOERNER, LUNSFORD. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN
RELATION TO REQUIRING NAVIGATION SYSTEMS UTILIZING GPS TECHNOLOGY TO
IDENTIFY THE HEIGHT OF ANY BRIDE OR OVERPASS ALONG A PROPOSED ROUTE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
7
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. SANTABARBARA TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.
MR. SANTABARBARA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER,
TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE -- MY VOTE. THIS -- THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE GPS
SYSTEMS TO DISPLAY THE HEIGHT OF BRIDGES AND -- AND OVERPASSES ON
PLANNED ROUTES TO HELP PREVENT BRIDGE STRIKES. BRIDGE STRIKES ARE
BECOMING MORE COMMON IN NEW YORK AS MORE AND MORE DRIVERS RELY
ON TECHNOLOGY AND LESS ON SIGNAGE. DESPITE EXISTING WARNING SIGNS,
MANY DRIVERS STILL HIT LOW BRIDGES, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE TRAVELING IN
UNFAMILIAR AREAS. THESE COLLISIONS NOT ONLY ENDANGER LIVES, BUT ALSO
CAUSE SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO BRIDGES AND VEHICLES. AND THE COST TO
COMMUNITIES FROM BRIDGE STRIKES IS SUBSTANTIAL, EMERGENCY RESPONSE
FROM POLICE, FIRE, AND EMS SERVICES ARE NEEDED, AND ROUTES ARE OFTEN
SHUT DOWN WHILE THE BRIDGE STRIKE IS CLEARED AND THE BRIDGE IS CLEARED
FOR SAFETY INSPECTIONS. BY PREVENTING THESE INCIDENTS, WE CAN REDUCE
THE BURDEN ON EMERGENCY RESPONDERS, ALLOWING THEM TO FOCUS ON OTHER
CRITICAL NEEDS IN OUR COMMUNITY. REDUCING BRIDGE STRIKES WILL SAVE
OUR COMMUNITIES MONEY, FEWER ACCIDENTS MEAN LOWER REPAIR COSTS FOR
BRIDGES AND VEHICLES, LESS DISRUPTION TO TRAFFIC, AND FEWER EMERGENCY
RESPONSE EXPENSES. THIS WILL FREE UP RESOURCES THAT COULD BE BETTER
8
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
USED ELSEWHERE.
BY ENSURING GPS SYSTEMS SHOW BRIDGE HEIGHTS, THIS
BILL WILL PROVIDE DRIVERS CRUCIAL INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO AVOID THESE
DANGEROUS SITUATIONS. I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO SUPPORT THIS BILL.
IT WILL HELP REDUCE THESE ACCIDENTS, REDUCE THE BURDEN ON EMERGENCY
RESPONDERS, AND MAKE OUR ROADS SAFER FOR EVERYONE. AND WITH THAT,
MR. SPEAKER, I CAST MY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. SANTABARBARA IN
THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 413, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09943-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 413, THIELE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TOWN LAW, IN RELATION TO
THE PECONIC BAY REGION COMMUNITY PRESERVATION FUNDS; AND TO REPEAL
CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH LAW RELATING THERETO.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MR.
THIELE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
9
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 429, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00189-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 429, SAYEGH. AN ACT DIRECTING THE COMMISSIONER OF THE
DIVISION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICES TO STUDY THE EFFECTIVENESS AND
ACCURACY OF DEVICES USED TO ESTIMATE BLOOD ALCOHOL CONTENT BY LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 12, RULES REPORT NO. 439, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05631-E, RULES
REPORT NO. 439, REYES, KELLES, BRONSON, SILLITTI, STECK, L. ROSENTHAL,
DE LOS SANTOS, AUBRY, PAULIN, GLICK, COLTON, STIRPE, CRUZ, SIMONE,
EPSTEIN, GIBBS, BURGOS, TAYLOR, RAGA, WEPRIN, JEAN-PIERRE, SIMON,
TAPIA, CLARK, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, MITAYNES, BRABENEC, SMITH, ALVAREZ,
WALLACE, THIELE, LEVENBERG, BURDICK, GALLAGHER, BENEDETTO, BICHOTTE
10
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
HERMELYN, OTIS, JACOBSON, LUCAS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN
RELATION TO ENACTING THE NEW YORK STATE FASHION WORKERS ACT.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION -- OH, I'M SORRY.
ON A MOTION BY MS. REYES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE
THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 13, RULES REPORT NO. 448, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08075-D, RULES
REPORT NO. 448, STECK, FAHY, GUNTHER, MCDONALD, NOVAKHOV,
DESTEFANO, SIMON, DAVILA, BENDETT, K. BROWN, CHANG, LEVENBERG,
WEPRIN, SOLAGES, PAULIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW
AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO THE AVAILABILITY OF OPIOID
REVERSAL AGENTS.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
11
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
ON CONSENT, PAGE 18, RULES REPORT 523, THE CLERK
WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01321, RULES REPORT
NO. 5 -- 523, RAJKUMAR, COLTON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY
ACTIONS AND PROCEEDINGS LAW, IN RELATION TO ADJOINING PROPERTY TO
MAKE IMPROVEMENTS OR REPAIRS.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MS.
RAJKUMAR, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03122-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 524, SAYEGH, REYES, WILLIAMS, LEVENBERG, SHIMSKY,
DURSO, SMULLEN, DESTEFANO, MIKULIN, GUNTHER, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT
TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING AN
ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE OUTREACH AND EDUCATION PROGRAM.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SAYEGH, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
12
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03408, RULES REPORT
NO. 525, MCDONALD, BYRNES, LUPARDO, COLTON, SIMON, GUNTHER,
MAHER, MCDONOUGH, BUTTENSCHON, SAYEGH, STIRPE, J.A. GIGLIO,
GALLAHAN, NOVAKHOV, JACKSON, SHIMSKY, EACHUS, PAULIN, MORINELLO,
ZACCARO, PRETLOW, HEVESI, STECK, SILLITTI, BENEDETTO, BURDICK,
SEAWRIGHT, PALMESANO, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, FAHY, DESTEFANO, TAYLOR,
WEPRIN, MEEKS, DINOWITZ, FITZPATRICK, MCMAHON, L. ROSENTHAL,
BRABENEC. AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO
PROVIDING PARITY TO DURABLE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT PROVIDERS BY REQUIRING
MEDICAID MANAGED CARE ORGANIZATIONS TO REIMBURSE SUCH PROVIDERS AT
NO LESS THAN 100 PERCENT OF THE MEDICAL ASSISTANCE DURABLE MEDICAL
EQUIPMENT AND COMPLEX REHABILITATION TECHNOLOGY FEE SCHEDULE FOR THE
SAME SERVICE OR ITEM.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
13
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05564-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 526, K. BROWN, E. BROWN, ANGELINO, SMULLEN, J. M.
GIGLIO, DESTEFANO, HAWLEY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN
RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE
"SENIOR INVESTIGATOR THOMAS M. O'NEILL MEMORIAL BRIDGE."
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BROWN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU
PLEASE CALL THE RULES COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: RULES COMMITTEE TO
14
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY.
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06930-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 527, BURGOS, REYES, SEPTIMO, ALVAREZ, TAYLOR, ANDERSON,
BERGER, CRUZ, DINOWITZ, TAPIA, DE LOS SANTOS. AN ACT ESTABLISHING
THE "COVID-19 LIVERY VEHICLE RECOVERY ACT."
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BURGOS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. BURGOS TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.
MR. BURGOS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I KNOW
FOLKS MAY SEE THIS BILL AND WONDER WHY IN 2024 WE'RE PASSING A BILL
WITH THE TITLE COVID-19 ON IT. BUT I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO THE PAIN AND
-- AND THE LENGTH OF TIME THAT LIVERY DRIVERS HAVE WAITED FOR ANY SORT OF
RECOVERY SINCE THE PANDEMIC. WHERE EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY HAS BEEN
AWARDED LOAN FORGIVENESS, WHERE EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY HAS BEEN
AFFORDED SOME OPPORTUNITY TO REBOUND, THIS BILL WILL FINALLY GIVE
DRIVERS AND LIVERY AND BASE OWNERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REBOUND, TO PUT
FOOD ON THE TABLE, TO MAKE THE MONEY THEY SO DESERVE, AND WE'RE
15
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
HELPING THEM SO MUCH TODAY THROUGHOUT NEW YORK CITY.
SO I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SPONSORSHIP ON THIS.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. BURGOS IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07243, RULES REPORT
NO. 528, SIMONE, SEAWRIGHT, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, SIMON, THIELE,
BURDICK, LUPARDO, DINOWITZ, EPSTEIN, HEVESI, JACKSON, ZINERMAN,
LAVINE, JACOBSON, PAULIN, CARROLL, GLICK, STIRPE, LUCAS, GIBBS, REYES,
BORES, RAGA, LEVENBERG. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN
RELATION TO AUTHORIZING BOARDS OF ELECTIONS TO ESTABLISH ABSENTEE BALLOT
DROP-OFF LOCATIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SIMONE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07537-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 529, SHRESTHA, GALLAGHER, AUBRY, JACOBSON, STECK,
BURDICK, SIMON, MITAYNES, EPSTEIN, STIRPE, THIELE, MAMDANI, FORREST,
CARROLL, L. ROSENTHAL, DE LOS SANTOS, SEPTIMO, REYES, RAGA. AN ACT
TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO TERMINATION OF CERTAIN
UTILITY SERVICES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
16
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL --
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ONE MOMENT.
MR. GOODELL: SORRY, SIR. THAT BILL SHOULD BE LAID
ASIDE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: VERY GOOD.
THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07623, RULES REPORT
NO. 530, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN
RELATION TO INCLUDING REMEDIAL SERVICES, HOMEWORK OR CHILDCARE AS THE
TRANSPORTATION RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT LOCATED IN A CITY
HAVING A POPULATION OF ONE MILLION OR MORE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07656-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 531, STECK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY ACTIONS
AND PROCEEDINGS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING A PETITION IN A SUMMARY
PROCEEDING TO RECOVER POSSESSION OF REAL PROPERTY IN THE CITY OF
17
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SCHENECTADY TO ALLEGE PROOF OF COMPLIANCE WITH LOCAL LAWS REQUIRING
RENTAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY REGISTRATION AND LICENSURE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MR.
STECK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08138-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 532 WAS AMENDED AND IS HIGH.
ASSEMBLY NO. A08147-A --
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: HOLD --
(PAUSE)
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08138-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 532, WEINSTEIN, L. ROSENTHAL, BRONSON, BORES. AN ACT TO
AMEND THE GENERAL OBLIGATIONS LAW, IN RELATION TO CONTRACTS FOR THE
CREATION AND USE OF DIGITAL REPLICAS.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MS.
WEINSTEIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE A FIRST -- TAKE EFFECT
JANUARY 1ST, 2025.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
18
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08147-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 533, HAWLEY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN
RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE
"SGT TERRY JAMES GARIGEN MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MR.
HAWLEY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08148-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 534, ROZIC, REYES, SHIMSKY, MAGNARELLI, HEVESI,
BUTTENSCHON, FAHY, DICKENS, MCMAHON, GLICK, DE LOS SANTOS, DURSO,
MCDONOUGH, GANDOLFO, SIMON, ZACCARO, DESTEFANO, WALLACE, BERGER,
BURDICK, SEAWRIGHT, MCDONALD, BEEPHAN, SMULLEN, MANKTELOW,
ARDILA, SLATER, SILLITTI, DARLING, K. BROWN, EPSTEIN, LEVENBERG,
WEPRIN, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, LUPARDO, MIKULIN, PAULIN, SOLAGES,
TAPIA, DAVILA, BURGOS, GUNTHER, TAYLOR, ZEBROWSKI, L. ROSENTHAL,
JENSEN, KIM, J.A. GIGLIO, RIVERA, CUNNINGHAM, ZINERMAN, MAHER,
19
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WALKER, CONRAD, CLARK, JACKSON, DAIS, RAJKUMAR, FALL, LUNSFORD,
FORREST, LEE, GIBBS, ANDERSON, LAVINE, STERN, GALLAGHER, DINOWITZ,
BRAUNSTEIN, JEAN-PIERRE, SEPTIMO, KELLES, CARROLL, MAMDANI, HUNTER,
BARRETT, BRONSON, PHEFFER AMATO, O'DONNELL, SANTABARBARA, COOK,
BURKE, AUBRY, JONES, STIRPE, SAYEGH, RAGA, GALLAHAN, THIELE, ALVAREZ,
SIMONE, EICHENSTEIN, CHANDLER-WATERMAN, PRETLOW, MORINELLO,
SHRESTHA, EACHUS, MEEKS, JACOBSON, BRABENEC, COLTON, OTIS, STECK.
AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE
STOP ADDICTIVE FEEDS EXPLOITATION (SAFE) FOR KIDS ACT PROHIBITING
THE PROVISION OF AN ADDICTIVE FEED TO A MINOR.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MS.
ROZIC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08149-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 535, ROZIC, REYES, SHIMSKY, MAGNARELLI, HEVESI,
BUTTENSCHON, FAHY, DICKENS, MCMAHON, GLICK, DE LOS SANTOS, DURSO,
MCDONOUGH, GANDOLFO, SIMON, ZACCARO, DESTEFANO, WALLACE, BERBER,
BURDICK, SEAWRIGHT, MCDONALD, BEEPHAN, SMULLEN, MANKTELOW, J.A.
GIGLIO, SLATER, ARDILA, SILLITTI, DARLING, K. BROWN, EPSTEIN, LEVENBERG,
WEPRIN, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, LUPARDO, MIKULIN, PAULIN, SOLAGES,
SANTABARBARA, L. ROSENTHAL, DAVILA, BURGOS, CHANDLER-WATERMAN,
TAYLOR, ZEBROWSKI, JENSEN, KIM, RIVERA, ZINERMAN, MAHER, WALKER,
CUNNINGHAM, CONRAD, CLARK, JACKSON, DAIS, RAJKUMAR, FALL, LUNSFORD,
FORREST, LEE, GIBBS, ANDERSON, LAVINE, STERN, BRAUNSTEIN, DINOWITZ,
JEAN-PIERRE, SEPTIMO, KELLES, CARROLL, MAMDANI, HUNTER, BARRETT,
20
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
BRONSON, PHEFFER AMATO, O'DONNELL, COOK, GUNTHER, BURKE, AUBRY,
JONES, STIRPE, SAYEGH, RAGA, GALLAHAN, TAPIA, THIELE, GALLAGHER,
ALVAREZ, SIMONE, EICHENSTEIN, PRETLOW, MORINELLO, SHRESTHA, EACHUS,
MEEKS, JACOBSON, BRABENEC, COLTON, OTIS, STECK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE NEW YORK CHILD
DATA PROTECTION ACT.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MS.
ROZIC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08864-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 536, RAJKUMAR, SEAWRIGHT, TAYLOR, TAPIA. AN ACT TO
AMEND THE NEW YORK CITY CHARTER, IN RELATION TO PUBLIC NOTICE AND
COMMENT FOR CERTAIN CONTRACTS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH
PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08918-A, RULES
21
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
REPORT NO. 537, PHEFFER AMATO, GUNTHER, ZEBROWSKI, BUTTENSCHON,
JONES, SAYEGH, O'DONNELL, WOERNER, STERN, BENEDETTO, SEAWRIGHT,
BURDICK, BURKE, SANTABARBARA, MCMAHON, WILLIAMS, CONRAD, HEVESI,
LUNSFORD, COLTON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL
SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A 20-YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN FOR
MEMBERS OR OFFICERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09261, RULES REPORT
NO. 538, PALMESANO, GALLAHAN, KELLES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY
LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING CERTAIN PORTIONS OF THE STATE HIGHWAY
SYSTEM AS THE "BETWEEN CAYUGA AND SENECA LAKES WINE TRAIL."
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
22
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09359-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 539, SHRESTHA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC
LAW AND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A SCHOOL
SPEED ZONE CAMERA DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM IN THE CITY OF KINGSTON;
AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION
THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
SHRESTHA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09824, RULES REPORT
NO. 540, LUPARDO, JONES, BUTTENSCHON, SANTABARBARA, LUNSFORD,
23
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
STIRPE, KELLES, HUNTER, STECK, MCDONALD, MAGNARELLI, BRONSON,
WOERNER, ZEBROWSKI, TAPIA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION
TO ELIGIBILITY FOR THE FARM EMPLOYER OVERTIME TAX CREDIT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
LUPARDO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09963-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 543, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW,
IN RELATION TO IMPLEMENTING A RESIDENTIAL PARKING SYSTEM IN THE VILLAGE
OF PORT CHESTER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
OTIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
24
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10197, RULES REPORT
NO. 543, COMMITTEE ON RULES (LAVINE, SANTABARBARA, COLTON,
SHIMSKY). AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 1 OF THE LAWS OF 2023 RELATING TO
TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT OF CERTAIN NONJUDICIAL OFFICERS
AND EMPLOYEES OF THE UNIFED COURT SYSTEM AND AMENDING CHAPTER 400
OF THE LAWS OF 2014 RELATING TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF
EMPLOYMENT OF CERTAIN NONJUDICIAL OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF THE
UNIFIED COURT SYSTEM, RELATING TO ANNUAL LONGEVITY PAYMENTS FOR
CERTAIN EMPLOYEES, IN RELATION TO THE ANNUAL MAINTENANCE ALLOWANCE
RECEIVED BY EMPLOYEES WHO ARE REQUIRED TO WEAR AN
EMPLOYER-APPROVED BLAZER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
LAVINE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
25
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10287, RULES REPORT
NO. 545, COMMITTEE ON RULES (STERN). AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 431
OF THE LAWS OF 2018 RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE STATE COMMISSIONER OF
TRANSPORTATION TO CONVEY REAL PROPERTY TO THE TOWN OF HUNTINGTON,
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING CERTAIN PROVISIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
STERN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10346-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 546, COMMITTEE ON RULES (PAULIN, MCDONALD, KELLES,
WOERNER, SOLAGES). AN ACT TO ENACT THE "NEW YORK UTILITY
CORPORATION SECURITIZATION ACT."
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
PAULIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
26
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10402-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 547, COMMITTEE ON RULES (OTIS, BORES). AN ACT TO AMEND
THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO MATERIALLY-DECEPTIVE MEDIA IN POLITICAL
COMMUNICATIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10413-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 548, COMMITTEE ON RULES (THIELE). AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE
TOWN OF EAST HAMPTON TO ALIENATE AND CONVEY CERTAIN PARCELS OF LAND
USED AS PARKLAND FOR THE PURPOSE OF A SUFFOLK COUNTY ROADWAY
IMPROVEMENT PROJECT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
THIELE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
27
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10434-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 549, COMMITTEE ON RULES (MCGOWAN). AN ACT AUTHORIZING
KOLEL RACHMISTRIVKA TO RECEIVE RETROACTIVE REAL PROPERTY TAX-EXEMPT
STATUS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
MCGOWAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10467-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 550, COMMITTEE ON RULES (BRAUNSTEIN, L. ROSENTHAL). AN
ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO GROUND LEASE
CONTRACTS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH
DAY.
28
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10533, RULES REPORT
NO. 551, COMMITTEE ON RULES (CLARK). AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 371
OF THE LAWS OF 2009 AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING TO THE
RESIDENTIAL CARE OFF-SITE FACILITY DEMONSTRATION PROJECT, IN RELATION
TO EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
CLARK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10540, RULES REPORT
-- RULES REPORT NO. 552, COMMITTEE ON RULES (DAIS, SILLITTI, RAMOS,
AUBRY, JONES, BERGER, BURDICK, WEPRIN, PRETLOW, THIELE, SHIMSKY,
29
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PAULIN, SIMONE, LEE, SEPTIMO, BORES, ARDILA, CRUZ, LUNSFORD, LAVINE,
ZACCARO, SOLAGES, BRAUNSTEIN, DINOWITZ, HEVESI, EPSTEIN). AN ACT TO
AMEND THE FAMILY COURT ACT AND THE NEW YORK CITY COURT ACT [SIC],
IN RELATION TO INCREASING THE NUMBER OF JUDGES IN CERTAIN COURTS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
DAIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. REILLY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN
MY VOTE. JUST TO PREFACE WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY, WE TALK ABOUT EQUITY
EVERY DAY IN THIS CHAMBER ACROSS THE STATE. WELL, THIS IS AN EXAMPLE
OF INEQUITY. AND THE REASON WHY I'M SAYING THAT IS BECAUSE THIS GIVES
THREE CIVIL COURT JUDGES TO FOUR OUT OF THE FIVE BOROUGHS IN NEW YORK
CITY, AND COUNTIES THAT BORDER NEW YORK CITY GET JUDGES AS WELL. THE
ONLY COUNTY IS RICHMOND COUNTY, THE BOROUGH OF STATEN ISLAND, THAT
DOES NOT GET ANY.
NOW, WHY IS THIS AN INEQUITY? WELL, LET'S JUST LOOK AT
THE CASE FILINGS FOR 2024: MANHATTAN, 25,000; BROOKLYN, 20,000;
QUEENS, 29,000; BRONX, 36,000; STATEN ISLAND HAS 30,000 FILINGS AS
WELL, THEY GET NO CIVIL COURT JUDGES, BUT THOSE FOUR OTHER BOROUGHS GET
THREE. AS A MATTER OF FACT, STATEN ISLAND HAS MORE THAN MANHATTAN
30
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
FILINGS CURRENTLY, YEAR-TO-DATE. IN 2023, MANHATTAN HAD 66,000;
BROOKLYN, 110,000; QUEENS, 78,000; THE BRONX, 95,000; AND STATEN
ISLAND, 68,000 - 68,000, TWO MORE THOUSAND THAN MANHATTAN BUT, YET,
THEY STILL DO NOT GET A CIVIL COURT JUDGE IN THIS BILL.
SO THERE ARE ABOUT -- APPROXIMATELY 130 CIVIL COURT
JUDGES IN NEW YORK CITY, STATEN ISLAND HAS FOUR. STATEN ISLAND
REPRESENTS 6 PERCENT OF NEW YORK CITY'S POPULATION, YET, THEY
REPRESENT ONLY 3 PERCENT IN THE CIVIL COURT JUDGES IN NEW YORK CITY.
IN 1968, THAT WAS THE LAST TIME A CIVIL COURT SEAT WAS ASSIGNED TO
STATEN ISLAND; THEY HAD A 300,000 POPULATION. TODAY, THE POPULATION
IS APPROXIMATELY 500,000 AND, YET, WE STILL ONLY HAVE FOUR CIVIL COURT
SEATS.
EQUITY, THIS IS ABOUT EQUITY. UNFORTUNATELY, EVERY
COUNTY THAT'S AROUND NEW YORK CITY HAS GOTTEN JUDGES IN THIS BILL, AS
WELL. I GUESS PERTH AMBOY, NEW JERSEY HAD A BETTER SHOT OF GETTING A
JUDGE THAN STATEN ISLAND. THAT IS JUST UNACCEPTABLE. IT'S TIME THAT WE
NEED TO REALLY TALK ABOUT EQUITY AND KEEP EQUITY FOR WHAT IT REALLY
MEANS. THESE NUMBERS I SHARED WITH YOU ARE REAL. YOU CAN LOOK THEM
UP RIGHT ON THE COURT ADMINISTRATION'S SITE, THAT'S WHERE I GOT THEM
FROM.
SO I HOPE THE GOVERNOR HEARS THIS AND SHE TELLS
EVERYBODY IN THIS CHAMBER WE ARE A STATE ABOUT EQUITY. WE WANT
JUDICIAL AND JUSTICE EQUITY FOR ALL NEW YORKERS. THIS BILL DOES NOT DO
THAT FOR ALL NEW YORKERS. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WILL BE IN THE
NEGATIVE.
31
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. REILLY IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MR. TANNOUSIS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU
HEARD FROM MY COLLEAGUE THE NUMBERS THAT HE JUST READ ALOUD. STATEN
ISLAND, JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE BOROUGHS, JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE CITY,
ALSO HAS A BACKLOG IN CONNECTION TO FAMILY COURT AND TO CIVIL COURT.
ASK YOURSELVES, FOUR SEATS EACH FOR EACH OF THE BOROUGHS EXCEPT FOR
STATEN ISLAND, ELECTED SEATS. WHAT COULD BE SO DIFFERENT ABOUT STATEN
ISLAND THAN THE REST OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK? ASK YOURSELVES THAT
QUESTION. WE TALK ABOUT FAIRNESS, WE TALK ABOUT EQUITY. I GUESS NOT
WHEN IT COMES TO STATEN ISLAND. THEY'RE LEFT OUT.
I VOTE NO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. TANNOUSIS IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JUST WANT
TO MENTION THAT WE HAD A LENGTHY DEBATE YESTERDAY ABOUT CHANGING THE
NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION TO ELIMINATE GUARDRAILS, AND ONE OF THE --
ONE OF THE THINGS I RAISED WAS THAT IT'S GONNA LEAD TO A LOT OF LEGISLATIVE
DEALMAKING THAT'S GONNA GIVE SOME -- IT'S GONNA BE INEQUITABLE BECAUSE
THAT'S HOW POLITICS WORKS SOMETIMES. SO I THINK WE'RE SEEING THAT
TODAY. WE CAN EXPECT MORE OF THE SAME IF THAT -- IF THAT CHANGE TO THE
NEW YORK STATE CONSTITUTION OCCURS.
I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE WITH MY COLLEAGUES WHO
32
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARE UPSET FROM STATEN ISLAND.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH IN THE
NEGATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10543, RULES REPORT
NO. 553, COMMITTEE ON RULES (BRAUNSTEIN, RAJKUMAR, SIMONE). AN
ACT TO AMEND THE NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC WORKS INVESTMENT ACT, IN
RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE USE OF CERTAIN ALTERNATIVE PROJECT DELIVERY
METHODS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BRONSON [SIC], THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10544, RULES REPORT
NO. 554, COMMITTEE ON RULES (SANTABARBARA, FAHY, JONES, JACOBSON,
ZACCARO, SEPTIMO, SOLAGES, DINOWITZ, LEVENBERG, BENEDETTO, PRETLOW,
33
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CONRAD, MCDONALD, BRONSON, GUNTHER, BUTTENSCHON, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS,
THIELE, CARROLL, LUNSFORD, LAVINE, SIMON, MCMAHON, STERN, SAYEGH,
SILLITTI). AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PROTECTING
LIBRARY ACCESS TO ELECTRONIC LITERARY MATERIALS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SANTABARBARA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10570, RULES REPORT
NO. 555, COMMITTEE ON RULES (ZEBROWSKI, PHEFFER AMATO, COLTON).
AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION
TO AUTHORIZING BENEFICIARIES TO CHOOSE PENSION BENEFITS OR A DEATH
BENEFIT IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
ZEBROWSKI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR AN INTRODUCTION.
34
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO INTERRUPT OUR PROCEEDINGS FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AN INTRODUCTION. ON BEHALF OF OUR COLLEAGUE MR. WEPRIN, HE HAS THE
FATHER OF HIS LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR HERE. HIS NAME IS THOMAS
AVELLANEDA. THOMAS AND HIS WIFE MOVED TO THE UNITED STATES OVER
THREE DECADES AGO FROM MEXICO IN SEARCH OF THE AMERICAN DREAM.
THEY FOUND THAT "DREAM" IN NEW YORK STATE, NEW YORK CITY. THEY
HAVE LIVED THERE FOR 30 YEARS. THEY ARE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL FOR THIS GREAT
STATE AND THIS COUNTRY, AND FOR EVERYTHING IT HAS GIVEN THEM.
MR. SPEAKER, WILL YOU PLEASE WELCOME THIS GENTLEMAN
TO OUR CHAMBERS AND OFFER HIM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE AND THE
PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF
OF MR. WEPRIN, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU,
MR. AVELLANEDA, TO THE CHAMBER, EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR AND
HOPE YOU ENJOY THE PROCEEDINGS, AND THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR WORK AND
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. WE HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR TRIP HERE TO ALBANY
AND HAVE A GREAT TIME.
(APPLAUSE)
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09234, RULES REPORT
NO. 556, LUNSFORD, BRONSON, JENSEN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW,
IN RELATION TO TAXPAYERS, AND COMBINED GROUPS INCLUDING MEMBERS,
ENGAGED IN PROVIDING PROFESSIONAL EMPLOYER ORGANIZATION SERVICES.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: READ THE LAST SECTION.
35
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03132-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 557, LUPARDO, THIELE, STERN, BENDETT, MANKTELOW, BARRETT,
LUNSFORD, SANTABARBARA, MAGNARELLI, OTIS, ZINERMAN, DURSO,
PALMESANO, MAHER, BRABENEC, SMULLEN, SIMPSON, FLOOD, SIMON,
CLARK, FAHY, DAVILA, RAGA, LAVINE, DICKENS, HEVESI, MCDONALD,
GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, SHIMSKY, MCGOWAN, GALLAHAN, BLANKENBUSH,
HAWLEY, TAGUE, ANGELINO, J.M. GIGLIO, J.A. GIGLIO, NOVAKHOV,
HUNTER, LUCAS, NORRIS, SHRESTHA, ZACCARO, STIRPE, WALLACE, GRAY,
MCMAHON, MCDONOUGH, SEAWRIGHT, SIMONE, REYES, BORES, BICHOTTE
HERMELYN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW, IN
RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE DIRECT INTRASTATE AND INTERSTATE SHIPMENT OF
LIQUOR, CIDER, MEAD, AND BRAGGOT AND RELATES TO DIRECT SHIPMENTS OF
WINE.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
PAGE 21, RULES REPORT NO. 534, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: S07694-A, SENATOR GOUNARDES,
(A08148-A), ROZIC, REYES, SHIMSKY, MAGNARELLI, HEVESI,
BUTTENSCHON, FAHY, DICKENS, MCMAHON, GLICK, DE LOS SANTOS, DURSO,
36
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MCDONOUGH, GANDOLFO, SIMON, ZACCARO, DESTEFANO, WALLACE, BERGER,
BURDICK, SEAWRIGHT, MCDONALD, BEEPHAN, SMULLEN, MANKTELOW,
ARDILA, SLATER, SILLITTI, DARLING, K. BROWN, EPSTEIN, LEVENBERG,
WEPRIN, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, LUPARDO, MIKULIN, PAULIN, SOLAGES,
TAPIA, DAVILA, BURGOS, GUNTHER, TAYLOR, ZEBROWSKI, L. ROSENTHAL,
JENSEN, KIM, J.A. GIGLIO, RIVERA, CUNNINGHAM, ZINERMAN, MAHER,
WALKER, CONRAD, CLARK, JACKSON, DAIS, RAJKUMAR, FALL, LUNSFORD,
FORREST, LEE, GIBBS, ANDERSON, LAVINE, STERN, GALLAGHER, DINOWITZ,
BRAUNSTEIN, JEAN-PIERRE, SEPTIMO, KELLES, CARROLL, MAMDANI, HUNTER,
BARRETT, BRONSON, PHEFFER AMATO, O'DONNELL, SANTABARBARA, COOK,
BURKE, AUBRY, JONES, STIRPE, SAYEGH, RAGA, GALLAHAN, THIELE, ALVAREZ,
SIMONE, EICHENSTEIN, CHANDLER-WATERMAN, PRETLOW, MORINELLO,
SHRESTHA, EACHUS, MEEKS, JACOBSON, BRABENEC, COLTON, OTIS, STECK.
AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE
STOP ADDICTIVE FEEDS EXPLOITATION (SAFE) FOR KIDS ACT PROHIBITING THE
PROVISION OF AN ADDICTION FEED TO A MINOR.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: AN EXPLANATION HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. ROZIC: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL
LIMITS ACCESS TO ADDICTIVE FEEDS ON SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS BY REQUIRING
PARENTAL CONSENT FOR MINORS TO ACCESS ADDICTIVE FEEDS ON A SOCIAL MEDIA
PLATFORM. IT PROHIBITS USERS UNDER 18 FROM VIEWING ADDICTIVE FEEDS
WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT AND IT'S JUST ONE SPECIFIC TYPE OF ALGORITHM
THAT WE ARE TARGETING HERE. THESE USERS WILL RECEIVE A CHRONOLOGICAL
FEED OF CONTENT FROM USERS THEY ALREADY FOLLOW OR FEEDS OF GENERALLY
37
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
POPULAR CONTENT. THE SAME WAY THAT SOCIAL MEDIA USE TO EXIST AND
FUNCTION BEFORE THE ADVENT OF THE ADDICTIVE ALGORITHM. USERS MAY ALSO
SEARCH FOR SPECIFIC TOPICS OF INTERESTS, CONNECT WITH FRIENDS AND JOIN
GROUPS. THE BILL ALSO PROHIBITS SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS FROM SENDING
NOTIFICATIONS TO MINORS FROM THESE ADDICTIVE ALGORITHMS BETWEEN THE
HOURS OF 12:00 A.M. AND 6:00 A.M. WITHOUT VERIFIABLE PARENTAL CONSENT,
AND IT ALSO AUTHORIZES THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO BRING AN
ACTION TO ADJOIN OR SEEK DAMAGES OR CIVIL PENALTIES UP TO $5,000 PER
VIOLATION. TO PROVIDE FOR MAXIMUM CLARITY TO STAKEHOLDERS, WE
PROVIDED A LEGISLATIVE INTENT SECTION THAT SPEAKS TO OUR VISION OF THIS
BILL AND HOW IT WILL WORK IN PRACTICE, AND WE INCLUDE A SET OF MANDATES
FROM THE LEGISLATURE ON THE OFFICE OF ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE RULE
PROMULGATION PROCESS TO ENSURE THAT THE OFFICE OF THE AG HAS A CLEAR
SENSE OF THE LEGISLATURE'S POINTS OF CONCERN.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MR. BLUMENCRANZ.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. ROZIC: YES, AND IF I CAN ASK FOR SOME QUIET THAT
WOULD BE GREAT.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,
COULD WE QUIET THE CHAMBERS. WE ARE ON DEBATE HERE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO I JUST WANT TO START OFF BY
SAYING I APPRECIATE THIS EFFORT. IT IS AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT ISSUE THAT
38
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WE'RE ALL FACING. BUT I WANT TO HONE IN ON SOME OF THE SPECIFICS WITHIN
THE BILL. COULD YOU TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW YOU ARRIVED AT THE
DEFINITION OF "ADDICTIVE FEED" TO START?
MS. ROZIC: THE ADDICTIVE FEEDS? YEAH. SO, AN
ADDICTIVE FEED IS A VERY SPECIFIC DEFINITION LAID OUT IN THE BILL. IT IS ANY
WEBSITE, ONLINE SERVICE, ONLINE APPLICATION OR MOBILE APPLICATION IN
WHICH MULTIPLE PIECES OF MEDIA GENERATED OR SHARED BY USERS, EITHER
CONCURRENTLY OR SEQUENTIALLY ARE RECOMMENDED, SELECTED OR PRIORITIZED
FOR DISPLAY TO A USER BASED IN WHOLE OR IN PART ON INFORMATION
ASSOCIATED WITH THE USER OR THE USER'S DEVICE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: IT GOES -- IT GOES ON SO JUST
--
MS. ROZIC: SURE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: -- MY -- MY QUESTION WAS
MORE AT -- AT HOW YOU CAME TO THIS CONCLUSION. SO YOU USED THE TERM
"ADDICTIVE" FOR BOTH ADDICTIVE FEED AND ADDICTIVE SOCIAL MEDIA
PLATFORM WHERE MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS CONSULTED IN THE
ADDICTIVENESS WAS -- WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS OF DEFINING AN
ADDICTIVE ALGORITHM FEED OR AN ADDICTIVE FEED AS DEFINED HERE?
MS. ROZIC: WE MET WITH VARIOUS STAKEHOLDERS
THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, INDUSTRY ORGANIZATIONS,
MENTAL HEALTH ASSOCIATIONS, AND WE ARRIVED AT WHAT WE BELIEVE IS THE
BEST DEFINITION OF THAT.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO UNDER YOUR DEFINITION
HERE, THOUGH, AN ADDICTIVE FEED AND ALSO AN ADDICTIVE SOCIAL MEDIA
39
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PLATFORM, WOULD INCLUDE A VERY LARGE UMBRELLA, CORRECT? SO UNDER THIS
-- UNDER THIS UNDER UMBRELLA, WOULD SPOTIFY AND MUSIC STREAMING
PLATFORMS BE CONSIDERED ADDICTIVE?
MS. ROZIC: NO. IT HAS TO BE A SIGNIFICANT PART OF
THEIR PLATFORM.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I THINK ANYONE OBJECTIVELY
CAN CONSIDER THE FACT THAT A MUSIC RECOMMENDING PLATFORM, USING AN
ALGORITHM TO PROVIDE YOU WITH VARIOUS OPTIONS BASED ON EXISTING DATA
AND INFORMATION SURROUNDING YOU AS A USER IS AN ALGORITHMIC FEED THAT
WOULD MEET THE STANDARD HERE, BOTH THE INDUSTRY AND I THINK ANYONE
READING THE LANGUAGE HERE WOULD CONSIDER MOST AUDIO STREAMING
PLATFORMS AS AN ADDICTIVE FEED UNDER THIS DEFINITION.
MS. ROZIC: IT'S SPECIFICALLY FOR SOCIAL MEDIA
PLATFORMS. AGAIN, IF A SPECIFIC APPLICATION OR A SPECIFIC WEBSITE HAS AN
ISSUE, THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS EMPOWERED TO CREATE
REGULATIONS AROUND THIS BILL AND THIS LEGISLATION IN ORDER TO CLARIFY SOME
OF THAT.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: OKAY. SO JUST IN BASIC
READING, BASICALLY READING THE LANGUAGE HERE, SO IT HAS TO BE AN
APPLICATION, MOBILE, ONLINE, WHATEVER IT MAY BE THAT PROVIDES
SEQUENTIAL ORDER INFORMATION INCLUDING ALL OF THESE VARIOUS POINTS HERE
WHO OR WOULD NOT BE INCLUDED. THAT WOULD INCLUDE THOSE AUDIO
PLATFORMS. WOULD IT ALSO INCLUDE NEWS UPDATES? I USE, AND I KNOW I
HAVE --I BASE A LOT OF MY INFORMATION THROUGHOUT THIS DEBATE IN
CONSULTING MY IMPORTANT CONSULTANTS, MY 11-YEAR-OLD SISTERS CHARLOTTE
40
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AND EMERSON, WHO HAVE GIVEN ME A LOT OF THOUGHT AND CONSIDERATION IN
THIS BILL, APPLE NEWS. APPLE NEWS USES AN ALGORITHM TO PROVIDE
INFORMATION IN A SEQUENCE THAT WOULD BE COVERED UNDER THIS
LEGISLATION. DO YOU NOT AGREE?
MS. ROZIC: NO, I DO -- I DO NOT AGREE AND --
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: WHY IS THAT?
MS. ROZIC: IF YOU LOOK AT PAGE 3, LINE 32, IT
SPECIFICALLY SAYS -- OR I GUESS LINE 34, IT SPECIFICALLY POINTS TO AN
ADDICTIVE FEED AS A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE SERVICES PROVIDED BY SUCH
WEBSITE, ONLINE SERVICE, ONLINE APPLICATION OR MOBILE APPLICATION. SO
--
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: YES. SO --
MS. ROZIC: SO -- SO LET ME FINISH ANSWERING. SO I
BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE TO GO TO A NEWS MEDIA WEBSITE AND
LOOK AT THE CONTENT FOLLOWING A STORY OR THE COMMENTS IN THE STORY, THAT
DOES NOT QUALIFY UNDER SIGNIFICANT PART.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: YOU DEFINE AN ADDICTIVE
SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM AS A PLATFORM THAT THE ADDICTIVE FEED, WHICH
WE'VE PREVIOUSLY DEFINED AND WOULD CATEGORIZE THESE WEBSITES, USES IT
AS A SIGNIFICANT PART. IF I'M APPLE NEWS, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU USE APPLE
NEWS, I DO SOMETIMES, IT AGGLOMERATES ARTICLES FROM VARIOUS DIFFERENT
SOURCES, AND BASED ON WHAT I HAVE READ IN THE PAST OR SOMEONE UNDER
18 HAS READ IN THE PAST WILL PROVIDE ME NEW ARTICLES. OF COURSE IT
PROVIDES ME SOME OF THE MOST PRESSING, URGENT BREAKING NEWS, BUT IT
ALSO PROVIDES ME A TON OF INFORMATION ON TECH POLICY BECAUSE I READ
41
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARTICLES ON TECH POLICY BECAUSE OF THE JOB THAT I CURRENTLY HOLD AND
OTHER FACTORS. THE SAME WITH A CHILD WHO MIGHT HAVE INTEREST. I'M JUST
CURIOUS HOW THEY WOULDN'T BE DEFINED IF YOU PRETTY SPECIFICALLY DEFINE
THEM AS AN ADDICTIVE FEED AND THEN DEFINE ADDICTIVE FEED AN ADDICTIVE
SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM AS ONE THAT USES AN ADDICTIVE FEED IN A
SIGNIFICANT SERVICES PROVIDED.
MS. ROZIC: RIGHT, BUT -- AND IT'S HARD TO FOLLOW AND
HARD TO HEAR YOU, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO APPLE NEWS FOR THE NEWS, THAT
IS WHY YOU'RE -- YOU'RE ACTIVELY SEEKING INFORMATION ON THAT WEBSITE. T
IS NOT KIND OF ANCILLARY TO WHY YOU'RE ON THERE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: IT IS -- IT IS PRESENTED --
MS. ROZIC: IT'S PRESENTED --
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: -- I DON'T GET -- I DON'T GO ON
TO APPLE NEWS AND RECEIVE THE NEW YORK TIMES. I GO ON THERE AND I
RECEIVE AXIOS AND NEW YORK TIMES, I'M NOT SUBSCRIBED, IT PRESENTS THAT
THROUGH AN ALGORITHM UNDERSTANDING MY BEHAVIORS, HABITS AND READING
TO PROVIDE ME THAT INFORMATION. IT WOULD -- IT WOULD -- IT WOULD BE
CLASSIFIED AS AN ADDICTIVE FEED UNDER THIS DEFINITION. I -- I MEAN I'M
NOT SURE HOW YOU --
MS. ROZIC: I JUST --
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: -- COULD MAKE THE
JUSTIFICATION.
MS. ROZIC: I WOULD -- I WOULD JUST HAVE TO DISAGREE
WITH THAT AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT'S A SIGNIFICANT PART TO THEIR SOCIAL
MEDIA PLATFORM.
42
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: IT'S IMPORTANT TO HONE IN ON
THAT, THOUGH, BECAUSE YOU DO TALK ABOUT LEGISLATIVE INTENT HERE AND THAT
IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE AG'S OFFICE CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION LATER,
BUT UNDER THE DEFINITION, A ADDICTIVE FEED, AGAIN, IS A MOBILE
APPLICATION YADA, YADA, YADA, THAT IS BASED IN PART OR WHOLE AND THE
INFORMATION ASSOCIATED WITH THE USER OR THE USER'S DEVICE. IT GOES ON TO
LIST EXCEPTIONS, BUT NOT EXCEPTIONS THAT WOULD EXEMPT A NEWS PLATFORM
LIKE THAT USING AN ALGORITHM. BUT LET ME MOVE ON TO ANOTHER EXAMPLE,
NETFLIX. NETFLIX PROVIDES INFORMATION BASED ON THE USER, SOME
INFORMATION SURROUNDING THE USER AGE, PREFERENCES, PRIOR WATCH HISTORY.
IF I AM UNDER THE AGE OF 18, WOULD NETFLIX BE CONSIDERED AN ADDICTIVE
FEED UNDER THIS DEFINITION?
MS. ROZIC: I DO NOT BELIEVE SO. I'M NOT GOING TO GO
THROUGH AND SPECIFICALLY SAY YES OR NO TO EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE, BUT I
WILL SAY IF THERE ARE CERTAIN PLATFORMS OR WEBSITES, AGAIN, THAT FEEL THAT
THEY ARE CONCERNED THAT THEY MIGHT FALL UNDER THIS DEFINITION FOR ONE
REASON OR ANOTHER, THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS EMPOWERED TO
CREATE REGS AND RULES AROUND THIS LEGISLATION TO CLARIFY SOME OF THAT.
BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT NETFLIX, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WOULD QUALIFY.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO THEN LET'S TALK ABOUT
ADVERTISING TO MINORS UNDER THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, BECAUSE I FIND
THAT IS A PARTICULARLY TRICKY SECTION OF THIS BILL CONSIDERING IT'S NOT THERE,
BUT ALGORITHMS ARE UTILIZED BY SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS TO MAKE A PROFIT.
IF -- LET'S USE TIKTOK FOR AN EXAMPLE, AND I'M SORRY TO KEEP USING REAL
LIFE EXAMPLES, BUT THESE ARE THE UNIVERSES IN WHICH THE APPLICATION OF
43
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THESE DEFINITIONS AND THE LABELING OF THE ADDICTIVENESS COMES INTO PLAY,
BUT ON TIKTOK WHILE THE FEED MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE ABLE TO BE NON --
NONSEQUENTIAL OR INFORMATION NOT BASED ON PAST PRIOR WATCH HISTORY,
THE ADVERTISEMENT STILL CAN BE, CORRECT?
MS. ROZIC: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS LEGISLATION
SPEAKS TO THE ACTUAL CONTENT. WE DON'T TRY TO REGULATE SPEECH, WE DON'T
TRY TO REGULATE --
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I'M SORRY. CAN YOU JUST SAY
THAT AGAIN? I CAN'T HEAR.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,
I KNOW WE'RE ALL EXCITED FOR THE LAST DAY OF SESSION HERE BUT IF WE CAN
HAVE SOME QUIET WHILE WE'RE ON DEBATE. THE DEBATERS ARE HAVING A
TOUGH TIME HEARING EACH OTHER. SO IF WE CAN CLEAR THE AISLES AND FIND A
SEAT AND KEEP IT QUIET, PLEASE.
MS. ROZIC: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD SAY
THAT THIS LEGISLATION REGULATES A SPECIFIC DESIGN FEATURE, THE DELIVERY
MECHANISM, WHICH IS THE ACTUAL ALGORITHMIC FEED. IT DOES NOT SPEAK TO
CONTENT. IT DOES NOT SPEAK TO ADVERTISEMENTS. IT IS CONTENT NEUTRAL AND
I HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I MEAN -- WHAT'S -- ON
CERTAIN SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS, INSTAGRAM, ANY OF THE ECOSYSTEMS IN
WHICH YOU ARE EXPERIENCING THE PLATFORM WITH FRIENDS THAT YOU HAVE
ALREADY INTERACTED WITH AND THAT WOULD NOT MEET -- THAT WOULD NOT MEET
THE STANDARD BECAUSE IT WOULD BE PERSISTENTLY ASSOCIATED WITH, CORRECT?
SO THEY WOULDN'T QUALIFY. SO AN INSTAGRAM MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
44
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WHEN IT COMES TO PLATFORMS LIKE GOODREADS, RIGHT? I USE GOODREADS.
MY LITTLE SISTERS, THEY USE IT. IT IS A PLATFORM THAT ALLOWS YOU TO SEE
NOVELS BASED ON PRIOR READING HISTORY. IT IS A PLATFORM THAT ALLOWS YOU
TO SEE RECOMMENDATIONS, REVIEWS, THAT WOULD BE AN ADDICTIVE FEED
UNDER THIS DEFINITION BECAUSE I'M NOT -- I'M NOT EXPERIENCING IT WITH
FRIENDS, YET WITH THE GREATER INTERNET AND I'M PRESENTED INFORMATION AND
DATA BASED ON MYSELF FOR A PERSONALIZED EXPERIENCE. IT'S NOT A
BOOKSHELF. IT'S A BOOK THAT'S PRESENTED TO ME, RIGHT? IT'S NOT THE SAME
AS IT WAS IN OLDER VERSIONS OF SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT I THINK THE ENTIRE
CONTEXT OF THE INTERNET HAS CHANGED.
SO MY QUESTION IS, WHEN IT COMES TO PLATFORMS LIKE
TIKTOK, WHICH HAVE CREATED AN ENTIRE ALGORITHMIC FEEDS USING TIKTOK
SHOP, HOW WOULD THIS LAW LABEL SOMETHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE IT CAN BE
CONSIDERED BOTH A MARKETPLACE AND ADVERTISING, BUT ALSO A FEED IN AND
OF ITSELF THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING ON THERE TO EXPERIENCE?
MS. ROZIC: YOU HAVE TO REITERATE YOUR QUESTION.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: ON MARKETPLACES THAT USE
ALGORITHMS TO PRESENT YOU INFORMATION, PRODUCTS AND MORE, RIGHT?
TIKTOK SHOP. A VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THEIR BUSINESS, FOR THOSE
WHO DON'T KNOW, IT'S SORT OF LIKE QVC BUT FOR PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN AGE
GROUP WHO ENTERTAIN, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER PRODUCTS THEY WANT TO SELL.
WOULD THIS AFFECT THEM BECAUSE ADVERTISERS ARE NOT EFFECTED? CAN
THESE PLATFORMS ESSENTIALLY BECOME GIANT MARKETPLACES AND THEN NOT
HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE LABEL OF ADDICTIVENESS AND ALSO THE RULES AND REGS
AS PROVIDED BY THE AG'S OFFICE?
45
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. ROZIC: SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT
THINGS. THE MARKETPLACE IS SEPARATE FROM THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.
MS. ROZIC: THEY CAN BE LINKED ON -- THEY CAN BE
LINKED ON TIKTOK BUT THEY'RE SEPARATE ENTITIES, CORRECT?
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: YOU ARE IN TIKTOK AND
THERE'S A -- THERE IS DIFFERENT PAGES, THEY'RE ACTUALLY FULLY INTEGRATED AND
MANY TIMES WHERE YOU RECEIVE AND EXPERIENCE TIKTOK SHOP POSTS ON
YOUR ALGORITHM FEED, RIGHT?
MS. ROZIC: RIGHT, BUT ONE'S A FEED AND ONE'S A
PLATFORM, RIGHT?
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I CAN'T HEAR YOU.
MS. ROZIC: ONE IS A FEED AND ONE IS A PLATFORM.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: NO, NO. IT'S ALL -- IT ALL
COMES THROUGH IN THE SAME FUNNELED FEED UNLESS YOU CHOOSE TO MOVE
INTO A TIKTOK SHOP FEED.
MS. ROZIC: RIGHT. SO WHAT -- LET ME JUST TAKE IT
BACK BECAUSE I DON'T -- AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO GET SPECIFICALLY BOILED
DOWN TO ONE SITE VERSUS ANOTHER SITE. IF THE ACTUAL CONTENT THAT YOU'RE
-- IF THE CONTENT THAT YOU'RE BEING FED OR THAT THE MINOR IS BEING FED IS
ADDICTIVE IN ITS NATURE, THEN THAT WOULD BE COVERED UNDER THIS. IF IT'S
GENERAL CONTENT LIKE ON A MARKETPLACE, IF THERE'S GENERAL CONTENT THAT
TIKTOK OR ANOTHER ONE OF THESE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS WANTS TO PUT
OUT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, THAT WOULD NOT BE UNDER HERE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: BUT WHAT I THINK IS
46
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER HERE IS YOU AND I ARE (INAUDIBLE) USING THE TERM
ADDICTIVE. THIS BILL IS NOT, RIGHT? AN ADDICTIVE FEED HAS A SPECIFIC
DEFINITION THAT ENCOMPASSES PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING THAT USES AN
ALGORITHM THAT UTILIZES INFORMATION RELATED TO THE USER AS PART OF THE
WAY IT DELIVERS INFORMATION. SO IF YOU USE THE POD CASTING APP THROUGH
APPLE, RIGHT, IT PRESENTS YOU BOTH THE INFORMATION YOU'RE REGULARLY
INTERACTING WITH, AS WELL AS NEW INFORMATION THAT'S RECOMMENDED
INFORMATION. THAT WOULD QUALIFY AS AN ADDICTIVE FEED UNDER THIS
DEFINITION.
MS. ROZIC: IT'S BASED ON WHAT'S USER-GENERATED.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: ONLY USER -- USER-GENERATED
INFORMATION.
MS. ROZIC: IT'S IN THE DEFINITION.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO IT WOULD INCLUDE THE
REVIEW SECTION ON AMAZON, CORRECT, WHEN I'M LOOKING AT PRODUCTS?
THAT'S USER-GENERATED FEEDS.
MS. ROZIC: NO, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A SIGNIFICANT PART OF
THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I THINK A VERY COMPELLING
ARGUMENT THAT USER-BASED REVIEWS ARE A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE WAY THEY
DELIVER THEIR SERVICES.
MS. ROZIC: YOU AND I SEE THAT DIFFERENTLY.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: OKAY. WHEN IT COMES TO
THE -- WOULD YOU BE OPEN TO NARROWING THE SCOPE OF THE DEFINITION TO
NOT NECESSARILY ENCOMPASS SUCH A WIDE VARIETY OF MARKETPLACES AND
47
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
STAYING SILENT WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUES SUCH AS ADVERTISING?
MS. ROZIC: NO.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: NO. SO WE HAVE --
(BUZZER SOUNDED)
I'M GOING TO USE MY NEXT 15. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING
HERE IS WE ARE CREATING A BASIC DEFINITIONAL GUIDELINE AND THEN ASKING
THE AG'S OFFICE TO CREATE A FRAMEWORK, CORRECT?
MS. ROZIC: CORRECT.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: AND YOU'RE NOT OPEN TO OUR
BODY HAVING ANY OVERSIGHT AS TO WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE IN THE FUTURE
OR IN CHAPTER AMENDMENTS --
MS. ROZIC: THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT IS VERY CLEAR ON
WHAT MANDATES THE LEGISLATURE IS IMPOSING ON THE OFFICE OF THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU.
MS. ROZIC: I SAID THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT SECTION OF
THE BILL IS VERY CLEAR ON THE MANDATES THAT ARE SET FROM THE LEGISLATURE
ON TO THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: INTENT IS ONE THING, BUT
APPLICATION IS ANOTHER AND I THINK THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THAT ARE WORTH
TRYING TO HASH OUT IN THE LEGISLATURE, RIGHT? SO, WHEN IT COMES TO THE
VERIFIABLE PARENTAL CONSENT, FOR INSTANCE. MANY OF THESE WEBSITES WE
ARE SEEKING TO CREATE THESE REGULATIONS FOR PERHAPS SOME EXISTING
PARENTAL CONSENT APPLICATION. SOME DO NOT, ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT
FALL UNDER ADDICTIVE FEED UNDER THIS BROAD DEFINITION, BUT WHAT WILL THAT
48
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
LOOK LIKE UNDER THIS BILL? IT SEEMS A LITTLE SILENT TO THAT.
MS. ROZIC: THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WILL
FIGURE OUT THE RULES AND REGULATIONS SURROUNDING A LOT OF THEM.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO YOU SAID WE'RE NOT
WILLING TO REVISIT THIS. SO IF THE BILL LEADS TO BIOMETRIC TRACKING OF
INDIVIDUALS BASED ON AGE, WE WOULDN'T BE REVISITING THIS QUESTION.
MS. ROZIC: THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID. WHAT I SAID IS
YOU ASKED ME IF I WOULD REDO THE DEFINITION AND I SAID I'M CURRENTLY
NOT OPEN TO THAT. NOW IF THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL PUTS OUT
RULES AND REGS TO CLARIFY SOME OF THIS LANGUAGE, THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER
BALL GAME AND WE HAVE ANOTHER LEGISLATIVE SESSION NEXT YEAR.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO YES, THERE IS A WORLD IN
WHICH WE AS A BODY MAY FEEL SO UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE REGS THAT THEY
CREATE THAT WE'D BE WILLING TO LOOK --
MS. ROZIC: WE -- WE AS A BODY DO ALL SORTS OF
THINGS AND SUBSEQUENT --
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SOME GOOD, SOME BAD,
RIGHT? WHEN IT COMES TO THE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM, SO SOME OF
THESE PLATFORMS THEY DO MAKE PRETTY GOOD ATTEMPTS. I MEAN MOST OF
THEM ARE FOLLOWING THE EXISTING FEDERAL LAW SURROUNDING INDIVIDUALS
UNDER THE AGE OF 13 NEEDING PARENTAL CONSENT TO USE THESE PLATFORMS.
WITH THE APPLICATION OF THE LEGISLATION, DOES THIS BILL RECOGNIZE GOOD
FAITH ATTEMPTS AT COMPLIANCE FROM SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS AND WILL THE
PROVISIONS OF THIS BILL AND THE RESULTING RULES AND REGULATIONS BY THE
OFFICE OF ATTORNEY GENERAL BE STRICTLY CONSTRUCTED? IT IS YOUR BELIEF
49
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THAT THEY ARE GOING TO CREATE GUIDELINES IN WHICH WE'LL BE ABLE TO KNOW
EXACTLY WHO IS IN GOOD FAITH MAKING AN ATTEMPT OR NOT?
MS. ROZIC: YES. I HAVE TREMENDOUS TRUST AND
RESPECT FOR WHAT THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DOES.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: OKAY. SO WHO IN THE OFFICE
OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S -- WHO IN THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
OR ELSEWHERE WOULD DETERMINE IF AN ADDICTIVE FEED IS ACTUALLY
CONCURRENTLY OR SEQUENTIALLY RECOMMENDING SELECTED OR PRIORITIZING
CERTAIN CONTENT?
MS. ROZIC: I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S GERMANE TO THE
ACTUAL BILL LANGUAGE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THAT DOESN'T RELATE TO THE
INTENT?
MS. ROZIC: THE PERSON WHO WILL CRAFT THE RULES AND
REGS.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: IS THERE A SPECIALIST IN THE
AG'S OFFICE WHO CAN ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS RELATED TO WHAT EXACTLY A
FEED WOULD LOOK LIKE THAT'S CATEGORIZED AS ADDICTIVE?
MS. ROZIC: THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS
FULL OF WELL-RESPECTED LAWYERS AND TECHNOLOGISTS WHO UNDERSTAND THIS
PART OF THE LAW AND I ENTRUST THEM TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: OKAY, ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH.
ON THE BILL, PLEASE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MR. BLUMENCRANZ ON
50
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE BILL.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THIS EFFORT IS AN EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT ATTEMPT AT BEING FIRST IN THE NATION AT TACKLING A VERY
PROBLEMATIC ISSUE WITHIN OUR SOCIETY. ANY OF US WHO HAVE CHILDREN,
WHO HAVE SIBLINGS, WHO HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS WHO ARE UNDERAGE, I
GREW UP WITH SISTERS WHO GREW UP IN THIS AGE OF ALGORITHMIC FEEDS,
SOCIAL MEDIA BEING A PART OF THEIR LIFE FROM A YOUNG AGE. WE SEE HOW
IT CHANGES AND ALTERS BEHAVIOR. BUT WE TAKE BOLD STEPS IN THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION IN THE WAY WE DEFINE AND UMBRELLA THE TERM "ADDICTIVE
FEED" AND THUS, ADDICTIVE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM AS SOMEONE WHO USES
OR A COMPANY THAT USES AN ADDICTIVE FEED. IT IS VERY MUCH SO ALL
ENCOMPASSING AND WE ARE LETTING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE TAKE
THE WHEEL WHEN IT COMES TO THE WAY IN WHICH WE WILL SEE THE
APPLICATION OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WITHOUT REVISITING WHAT THAT MAY
LOOK LIKE IN THE FUTURE AND THE RAMIFICATIONS FOR MULTIPLE GROUPS THAT
MIGHT BE AT RISK UNDER THIS BILL. BUT, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WE MAKE AN
ATTEMPT AND WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR
CHILDREN. I HOPE AND I PRAY THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE WILL DO
SO IN A WAY THAT RESPECTS NEW YORKERS AND ALLOWS FOR THIS PROBLEM TO
BE MITIGATED IN SOME WAY BUT THAT IS A QUESTION FOR TIME. BUT I'M
LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING HOW THOSE RULES WILL WORK IN THE FUTURE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MS. ROZIC.
MS. ROZIC: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL.
51
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: ON THE BILL.
MS. ROZIC: SO I JUST WANT TO REITERATE A COUPLE
POINTS AND ALSO CLARIFY SORT OF THE INTENT AND THE REASON WHY WE'RE
PASSING THIS LEGISLATION TODAY. IN 2000, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
PASSED SOMETHING CALLED COPPA, THE CHILDREN'S ONLINE PRIVACY
PROTECTION ACT SPECIFICALLY AIMED TO PROTECT THE PRIVACY OF KIDS UNDER
THE AGE OF 13 AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY, KIDS. SO LET'S
THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MOMENT, RIGHT. WE TALKED ABOUT ALL SORTS OF
DIFFERENT WEBSITES AND PLATFORMS TODAY, BUT IN THE YEAR 2000 IN Y2K,
THE EXTENT OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA WAS CHAIN E-MAILS AND DOWNLOADING
MUSIC OFF OF LIMEWIRE. I WAS VERY YOUNG. THAT WAS 24 YEARS AGO.
THERE WERE NO IPHONES. THERE WERE CERTAINLY NONE OF THE APPS THAT WE
TALKED ABOUT LIKE FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, SNAPCHAT OR TIKTOK. THAT LAW
IS CLEARLY OUTDATED AND OUR ONLINE WORLD IS DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT FROM
THEN. THE COST OF USING SOCIAL MEDIA IN PARTICULAR ARE VERY HIGH FOR
MINORS. SPENDING TIME ON SOCIAL MEDIA IS TEN TIMES MORE DANGEROUS
FOR KIDS THAN ANY OTHER KIND OF SCREEN TIME. MULTIPLE STUDIES
DEMONSTRATE DIRECT CORRELATION BETWEEN THE EXPLOSION OF SOCIAL MEDIA
AND A RISE ON THE RATES OF SELF HARM, ANXIETY, DEPRESSION AND SUICIDE
AMONGST KIDS AND TEENS. AS EVIDENCE MOUNTS THAT SOCIAL MEDIA MAKES
OUR KIDS MENTALLY UNHEALTHY, SOCIALLY ISOLATED AND DEEPLY, DEEPLY
UNHAPPY, WE HAVE LEFT KIDS UNPROTECTED ONLINE. MANY ARE FRAZZLED,
SCATTERED AND EXHAUSTED. THEY SHOW UP TO SCHOOL TOO TIRED FROM BEING
UP ALL NIGHT DUE TO SCROLLING. TOO MANY GET EXPLOITED AND HARMED AND
SO ARE WE OKAY WITH THAT? THAT'S THE REAL QUESTION TODAY. AND IT
52
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY. THIS BILL AND THE SUBSEQUENT BILL THAT WE'LL
TALK ABOUT TARGETS THE PROBLEM BY GOING TO THE ROOT OF WHY MINORS
SPEND SO MUCH TIME ONLINE. THE ALGORITHMIC FEED. IT WAS DESIGNED
SPECIFICALLY TO KEEP USERS ENGAGED AS LONG AS POSSIBLE SO THAT PLATFORMS
CAN MAXIMIZE THEIR OWN REVENUE AND KEEP USERS HOOKED. THE BILL
PREVENTS SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS FROM SENDING THE SPECIFIC ALGORITHMIC
FEED NOTIFICATION TO MINORS FROM12:00 TO 6:00 A.M. WITHOUT PARENTAL
CONSENT. IT PROVIDES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WITH A CLEAR MANDATE TO
REGULATE AND ENFORCE COMPLIANCE ENSURING THAT OUR KIDS ARE NOT BATTLING
THESE ALGORITHMS ALONE. UNLIKE BILLS FROM OTHER STATES, THIS BILL
ADDRESSES IT IN A CONTENT NEUTRAL WAY. WE DON'T LIMIT THE TYPE OF
SPEECH OR THE SPEAKER, OR REGULATING THE VEHICLE THAT SUPERCHARGES THE
FEED AND MAKES IT MORE ADDICTIVE. WE KNOW OUR KIDS ARE BOMBARDED
BY CONTENT. WE HAVE MORE THAN A CENTURY OF EXPERIENCE MAKING THE
REAL WORLD SAFE FOR KIDS. OVER THE COURSE OF MANY DECADES WE FOUND
OUT -- WE FOUND WAYS TO DO THAT. WE MANDATED SEAT BELTS AND CAR
SEATS. WE HAVE AGE RESTRICTIONS ON THINGS LIKE SMOKING AND ALCOHOL.
WE DON'T LET KIDS GAMBLE IN CASINOS. AS WE LEARN ABOUT THE HARMFUL
AND OFTEN DEADLY IMPACT OF SOCIAL MEDIA ON KIDS, IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY
AS LEGISLATORS, AS PARENTS TO PROVIDE THE NECESSARY PROTECTIONS AND
ENSURE A SAFE DIGITAL SPACE FOR THEM. LET'S LET KIDS GO THROUGH THEIR
MOST VULNERABLE PERIOD OF BRAIN DEVELOPMENT BEFORE CONNECTING THEM
TO A FIREHOSE DESIGNED TO CREATE SOCIAL COMPARISON AND ALGORITHMICALLY
CHOSEN CONTENT. I AM SO GRATEFUL THAT HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE PASSING THIS
BILL TODAY AND THE ONE THAT COMES AFTER IT BECAUSE SO MANY DIFFERENT
53
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ADVOCATES AND ORGS GOT TOGETHER WITH TEACHER UNIONS AND SPENT TIME,
ENERGY, ORGANIZING, MEETING, CALLING AND SENDING OUT MESSAGES TO GET
PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS. WE REALIZE THAT AS WE DID
IN YEARS PAST THAT SOMETIMES WE NEED TO PROTECT KIDS FROM HARM EVEN IF
IT INCONVENIENCES BIG COMPANIES. SO TO ALL THE PARENTS WHO'VE STOPPED
ME IN ELEVATORS AND HALLWAYS, REACHED OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, TO OVER
100 COLLEAGUES SITTING IN THIS CHAMBER WHO SIGNED ON AS OTHER -- AS
COSPONSORS, I REALLY WANT TO SAY THANK YOU. AND THERE ARE SO MANY
PEOPLE WHO HELPED US GET HERE LIKE SPEAKER HEASTIE AND HIS TEAM, THE
ENTIRE CONSUMER PROTECTION AND SCIENCE AND TECH TEAM FOR MAKING
SURE WE GOT THIS RIGHT, AND TO THE GOVERNOR AND ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO
HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLE LEADERS ON THIS ISSUE. THEY LENT NOT ONLY THEIR
SUPPORT EARLY ON BUT ALSO THE FULL FORCE OF THEIR OFFICES. I JUST WANT TO
SAY THANK YOU. AND ALSO TO MY PARTNER IN THE SENATE, SENATOR
GOUNARDES, WHO IS ACTUALLY WATCHING. HE IS THE BEST KIND OF ISSUE
CHAMPION. YOU GUYS SHOULD ALL DO BILLS WITH HIM BECAUSE THIS WOULD
NOT HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT HIM. AND OF COURSE OUR RESPECTIVE STAFFS
WHO WORKED TIRELESSLY TO ADVOCATE FOR THIS BILL AT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.
I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU. I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I
REALLY ENCOURAGE AND HOPE THAT MY COLLEAGUES WILL JOIN ME AND DO THE
SAME.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MR. LEMONDES.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: ON THE BILL.
54
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. WE HAVE MANY
CRISES AFFLICTING US SOCIALLY IN OUR COUNTRY, IN OUR STATE, IN OUR
COMMUNITIES RIGHT NOW AND THIS IS -- THIS IS ONE OF THEM. THE
CHILDHOOD DEPRAVATION THAT RESULTS FROM THESE SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS,
REGARDLESS OF THE PLATFORM, IS EVER PRESENT IN EVERYTHING OUR CHILDREN
DO. IT CONTRIBUTES TO LOSS OF SLEEP, EXPOSURE TO DISRUPTIVE HABITS,
DIVERSION OF TIME FROM HEALTHY, SOCIAL, PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL AND
INTELLECTUAL DEVELOPMENT. AND IT'S ABOUT TIME THAT WE'RE ADDRESSING IT.
I WANT TO SAY THIS BILL IS I THINK WELL-INTENDED. IT WILL START THE PROCESS,
BUT THERE'S A LOT MORE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. LOOK AT ANY GROUP OF KIDS
AND YOU SEE THEIR CHILDHOODS BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM BY THESE
STUPID PHONES. THEIR FACES ARE IN THESE PHONES, THEY CAN'T SEPARATE
THEMSELVES FROM THEM AND PARENTS GO MAD LIKE ME TRYING TO GET MY
KIDS TO PUT THEM DOWN TO EAT DINNER. AND SO THIS IS REAL AND IT HAS TO
BE DEALT WITH. THESE PLAT -- PLATFORMS LIKE TIKTOK ADDITIONALLY
CONTRIBUTE TO SIGNIFICANT COMPROMISE OF PERSONAL IDENTIFYING
INFORMATION AND BIOMETRIC DATA ALL OF WHICH CONTRIBUTES TO THE SUBTLE
EROSION OF NATIONAL SECURITY AS WELL. SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE DON'T
NECESSARILY ASSOCIATE THIS KIND OF TECHNOLOGY WITH. THIS NATIONAL
SECURITY RISK IS SUBTLE. IT'S VERY SUBTLE THE WAY INFORMATION IS BEING
GATHERED ON US SOCIALLY, ON OUR CHILDREN, AND IT HAS TO BE WATCHED.
THIS IS CALLED THE INFORMATION WARFARE DOMAIN, AND IT'S AS I SAID, THE
MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT THIS BILL IS IT'S A START. IT'S A GOOD START AND
IT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO PAY STRICT ATTENTION TO. SO RECOGNIZING THESE
RISKS, THIS BILL IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND I THINK I WANT TO SAY
55
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THANK YOU TO THE -- TO THE SPONSOR AND I SURE HOPE ALL OF US CAN MAKE
EVEN BETTER IMPROVEMENTS UPON THIS IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE. THANK
YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: ON THE BILL.
MS. WALSH: SO WHEN I WAS GROWING UP IN THE '60S
AND EARLY '70S AND YOU CAN ALL DO YOUR MATH. I -- YOU KNOW, MY DAD
CALLED THE TELEVISION SET THE BOOB TUBE, YOU KNOW. HE THREATENED HE
WAS GOING TO TAKE THAT TUBE TO WORK WITH HIM. HE WAS DISGUSTED WITH
THE BRADY BUNCH AND THE PARTRIDGE FAMILY AND ALL THE SHOWS THAT I
COULDN'T STOP WATCHING AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE TO EQUATE
THAT WITH WHAT WE'RE GOING ON RIGHT NOW WITH THE SMART -- WITH
CELLPHONES AND WITH SMARTPHONE USE. I MENTIONED IT BEFORE, I HAVE A
BLENDED FAMILY OF SIX KIDS. THEY GO FROM 31 DOWN TO ALMOST -- JUST
SHY OF 18, AND I SEE SUCH A DIFFERENCE IN THE YOUNGER CHILDREN IN THEIR
-- BECAUSE THEY HAD EXPOSURE. DESPITE OUR BEST EFFORTS TO LIMIT IT AND
TO TRY TO REALLY REVIEW WHAT THEIR HABITS WERE, TO TRY THE FISHBOWL AT
DINNERTIME, TO PUT THE PHONE IN THE FISHBOWL SO THAT WE COULD -- WITH
NO WATER IT IN, SO THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY SIT AND HAVE DINNER WHERE WE
ACTUALLY HAD CONVERSATION. KIDS THAT ARE UP MOST OF THE NIGHT WHO IF
YOU EVEN TRY TO TAKE THE PHONE AWAY TO CHARGE IT DOWNSTAIRS, WE FIND IN
THE MORNING THAT IT'S BEEN BROUGHT BACK UP TO THE ROOMS TO CHARGE IT OR
TO USE IT. YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T THINK THAT MY EXPERIENCE IS REALLY THAT
56
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
UNCOMMON AS A PARENT AS COMPARED TO OTHER PARENTS THAT I KNOW. WE
TALK ABOUT IT A LOT IN OUR FRIEND GROUPS, ESPECIALLY WITH KIDS IN THAT -- IN
THAT RANGE. SO, YOU KNOW, AS HAS BEEN SAID BY SOME OF THE PREVIOUS
SPEAKERS, I THINK THAT THIS IS ONE OF THOSE VOTES FOR ME WHERE IF I REALLY
WANTED TO GET OUT A MAGNIFYING GLASS AND REALLY GO OVER EACH AND
EVERY LINE OF THIS BILL, THERE ARE -- THERE ARE ISSUES THAT CONCERN ME WITH
THE BILL. THINGS THAT I THINK ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAYBE GET CLEANED UP
LATER AND MORE WORK TO BE DONE AFTER THIS BILL, BUT I -- I SUPPORT IT. I
THINK THAT WE NEED TO START HERE. I WILL JUST SAY, I GUESS FOR THE RECORD,
THAT WHAT -- WHAT CONCERNS ME IS THAT WE'RE PASSING A WHOLE SERIES OF
BILLS IT SEEMS WHERE WE'RE VESTING SO MUCH POWER, DISCRETION, AUTHORITY
IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE. AND I CAN SEPARATE THE OFFICE FROM
THE INDIVIDUAL. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, BUT I DO THINK THAT WE
HAVE TO BE CAREFUL, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WHEN WE PLACE SO MUCH
RESPONSIBILITY IN ONE OFFICE. AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE GREAT PEOPLE
THAT WORK THERE THAT ARE ON STAFF AND THAT THEY'LL -- THEY'LL MAKE IT THEIR
BEST EFFORT, BUT THAT -- THAT DOES CONCERN ME. THAT IS AN ASPECT ABOUT
THIS BILL THAT DOES CONCERN ME. I THINK THAT WHEN WE'VE SEEN BILL AFTER
BILL THAT HAS ARGUABLY TAKEN A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF DISCRETION AWAY
FROM THE JUDICIAL BRANCH, TO SEE IT ALL KIND OF COAGULATING IN THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IS SOMETHING THAT I DO WORRY ABOUT, BUT I
REALLY DO COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR TAKING A STEP UP AND I THINK THAT IF
YOU LOOK AT WHO ALL THE SPONSORS AND COSPONSORS AND MULTI-SPONSORS
ARE IN THIS CHAMBER, WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF
OVERALL SUPPORT FOR THE LEGISLATION SO I WILL BE SUPPORTING IT. I
57
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ENCOURAGE ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES THAT DIDN'T ALREADY GET ON THE BILL TO
SUPPORT IT HERE IN THE CHAMBER AND -- AND I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU. I
THINK THAT THIS -- I THINK WE'RE GOING TO LOOK BACK AT THIS PIECE OF WORK
AND REALIZE THAT THIS IS REALLY LIKE IN THIS MOMENT WHAT WE NEEDED TO
DO. SO THAT'S IT. I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. ROZIC: SURE.
ACTING SPEAKER JONES: SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. GOODELL: I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I
UNDERSTOOD THIS. AN ADDICTIVE FEED IS WHEN THEY PRIORITIZE CONTENT FOR
DISPLAY TO THE USER BASED IN WHOLE OR IN PART ON INFORMATION ASSOCIATED
WITH THE USER, RIGHT?
MS. ROZIC: YES. IT'S FROM THE USER.
MR. GOODELL: FROM THE USER, YEP. AND THAT
WOULD THEN TRIGGER AN ADDICTIVE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM DEFINITION. NOW
THIS SAYS THAT IN ORDER TO IDENTIFY WHETHER THE PERSON WHO IS USING THE
PHONE OR THE TABLET OR COMPUTER, THE PLATFORM MUST USE COMMERCIALLY
REASONABLE AND TECHNICALLY FEASIBLE METHODS. IS THERE ANY DESCRIPTION
IN THIS BILL OR DO WE JUST LEAVE THAT UP TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO FIGURE
OUT?
MS. ROZIC: COMMERCIALLY REASONABLE AND
58
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TECHNOLOGICALLY FEASIBLE IS A COMMON TERM IN BUSINESS CONTRACTS,
WHICH GENERALLY MEANS THAT A BUSINESS OR AN ENTITY WILL ACT IN GOOD
FAITH TO ACHIEVE A PARTICULAR OUTCOME.
MR. GOODELL: AND AM I CORRECT THAT THAT THOSE
WOULD BE FLESHED OUT BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN REGULATIONS?
MS. ROZIC: IT REQUIRES THE AG TO CREATE RULES AND
REGS IDENTIFYING COMMERCIAL AND TECHNICALLY FEASIBLE METHODS, YES.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. IS THERE A REASON WHY WE
HAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DETERMINE WHAT'S A COMMERCIALLY
REASONABLE AND TECHNICALLY FEASIBLE METHOD ON THESE VERY SOPHISTICATED
PLATFORMS RATHER THAN, FOR EXAMPLE, OUR IT DEPARTMENT? I MEAN THE
STATE HAS A FAIRLY SOPHISTICATED IT DEPARTMENT ITSELF, DON'T WE?
MS. ROZIC: TECHNOLOGY CHANGES SO RAPIDLY THAT IT IS
EASIER TO KIND OF FIGURE THAT OUT AND CREATE THAT WITHIN RULES AND REGS.
MR. GOODELL: SO IT'S YOUR VIEW THAT THIS RAPIDLY
CHANGING TECHNOLOGY IS BETTER EVALUATED BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THAN
BY OUR OWN IT EXPERTS IN THE STATE?
MS. ROZIC: IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YES.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND THEN THIS PROVIDES THAT
THESE ADDICTIVE FEEDS CAN BE PROVIDED IF THERE'S VERIFIABLE PARENTAL
CONSENT. AM I CORRECT THAT THAT PHRASE, "VERIFIABLE PARENTAL CONSENT" IS
ALSO GOING TO BE DEFINED BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL?
MS. ROZIC: YES.
MR. GOODELL: AND THEN WHAT I FOUND INTERESTING
IS IT SAYS, I MEAN IT'S LIKELY BY THE WAY THAT OR AT LEAST I WOULD
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ANTICIPATE THAT THESE PLATFORMS WOULD USE SOPHISTICATED ALGORITHMS IN
AN EFFORT TO TRY TO VERIFY THE USER'S AGE. BUT THEN THE BILL GOES ON TO SAY
THAT DATA TO DETERMINE AGE, QUOTE, "SHALL BE DELETED IMMEDIATELY AFTER
THE ATTEMPT TO DETERMINE THE USER'S AGE," CORRECT?
MS. ROZIC: CORRECT. AND JUST SO WE'RE ALSO CLEAR.
UNDER COPPA, THE FEDERAL LAW, THEY HAVE TO DO THIS ANYWAY FOR KIDS
UNDER THE AGE OF 13.
MR. GOODELL: NOW THE PENALTIES ARE $5,000 PER
VIOLATION. WOULD THAT BE PER USER OR PER USER ACCESS? WHAT'S MEANT
BY VIOLATION, PER VIOLATION?
MS. ROZIC: IT'S PER VIOLATION.
MR. GOODELL: IS THAT PER USER?
MS. ROZIC: IF THEY VIOLATE THE SAME USER OR THE
SAME USER VIOLATES IT MULTIPLE TIMES. I MEAN IF THE SAME PLATFORM DOES
IT MULTIPLE TIMES TO THE SAME USER.
MR. GOODELL: SO AS AN EXAMPLE LET'S SAY THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL USING DEFINITIONS THAT SHE COMES UP WITH MAKES AN
EVALUATION USING DEFINITIONS SHE COMES UP THAT THERE WASN'T VERIFIABLE
PARENTAL CONSENT OR ADEQUATE IN A PARTICULAR PLATFORM AND LET'S SAY IT'S A
BIG PLATFORM. LET'S SAY IT'S TIKTOK OR FACEBOOK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YOU COULD BE LOOKING AT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF VIOLATIONS; WOULD
THAT BE CORRECT?
MS. ROZIC: IF THEY MADE AN ATTEMPT TO VERIFY AGE
UNDER THE COMMERCIALLY REASONABLE AND TECHNOLOGICALLY FEASIBLE
FRAMEWORK THAT'S ONE THING, BUT THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL JUST
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
LIKE ANY OTHER CONSUMER VIOLATION OR ISSUE, SHE WILL BRING WHAT CASES
SHE SEES FIT.
MR. GOODELL: NOW IF THAT ACTION IS BROUGHT
AGAINST A PLATFORM, THIS BILL REQUIRES THE PLATFORM TO IMMEDIATELY DELETE
ALL THE DATA IT USED TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION. HOW IS THE PLATFORM
SUPPOSE TO DEFEND ITSELF?
MS. ROZIC: THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DELETE THE DATA AND
NOT THE PROCESS BY WHICH THEY ARRIVED AT THE DATA.
MR. GOODELL: I APOLOGIZE. IF YOU WOULD PLEASE
SPEAK A LITTLE LOUDER. IT'S JUST HARD TO HEAR.
MS. ROZIC: THEY ARE CHARGED WITH DELETING THE
ACTUAL DATA, NOT THE PROCESS BY WHICH THEY DETERMINED THE AGE OR THE
PROCESS BY WHICH THEY GOT THERE.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. BUT -- BUT THE FINE IS BASED
ON PER VIOLATION. THAT PER VIOLATION, AS YOU MENTIONED, COULD BE PER
USER. AND THIS BILL REQUIRES THEM TO ELIMINATE ALL DATA THAT THEY WOULD
USE TO VERIFY OR MAKE COMMERCIALLY REASONABLE EFFORTS TO VERIFY THAT
THAT PARTICULAR USER WAS A -- WAS AN ALLOWABLE USER. SO THEN MY
QUESTION AGAIN COMES BACK, HOW DO THEY DEFEND THEMSELVES? AREN'T
WE BY STATUTE ELIMINATING ALL THE DATA THEY WOULD NEED TO DEFEND
THEMSELVES IN AN ACTION BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL?
MS. ROZIC: I WOULD SAY THAT THROUGH THE RULES AND
REGULATIONS THERE WILL BE A PROCESS THAT MOST OF THESE SOCIAL MEDIA
PLATFORMS PROBABLY ALREADY FOLLOW AND THEY WILL USE THAT IN
DETERMINING THE VIOLATIONS OR WHETHER THEY ARE IN COMPLIANCE OR NOT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. GOODELL: NOW I WANT TO SHIFT JUST A LITTLE BIT.
WHAT -- WHAT IS THE ROLE OF PARENTS IN RAISING THEIR KIDS AND CONTROLLING
THEIR INTERNET ACCESS?
MS. ROZIC: IF A PARENT PROVIDES CONSENT, THEN THE
MINOR CAN HAVE ACCESS TO THE ALGORITHM, THE ADDICTIVE ALGORITHMIC FEED
AND IT'S NOT A PROBLEM.
MR. GOODELL: AND HOW IS THE PLATFORM TO VERIFY
PARENTAL CONSENT, BECAUSE TO BE HONEST WITH YOU SOME OF MY GRAND
KIDS ARE A LOT MORE SOPHISTICATED THAN I AM AND THEY ARE REMARKABLY
CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A FALSE IDEA ON THE INTERNET OR -- OR SOMETHING
ALONG THOSE LINES. HOW IS THE INTERNET PROVIDER TO VERIFY THAT PARENTAL
CONSENT HAS BEEN MADE FOR A WEB PAGE THAT MIGHT ITSELF BE FRAUDULENT?
MS. ROZIC: YEAH, SO COPPA SPEAKS TO ALL SORTS OF
METHODS THAT A PARENT CAN USE OR A PLATFORM CAN USE TO GET PARENTAL
CONSENT. PARENTAL CONSENT CAN BE DONE THROUGH VARIOUS DIFFERENT
METHODS. NONE OF THEM ACTUALLY INVOLVE PARENTS ACCESSING OR USING
THEIR CHILD'S PHONE. BUT -- BUT AGAIN, COPPA DELINEATES ALL SORTS OF
WAYS TO DO THAT.
MR. GOODELL: NOW THIS BILL DOESN'T REQUIRE ANY
NOTICE TO BE PROVIDED BY THESE PLATFORMS TO PARENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, IF
THEY SIGN UP FOR A SITE. IT DOESN'T REQUIRE THE DISTRIBUTORS OF PHONES OR
APPS TO HAVE ANY WARNING?
MS. ROZIC: NO.
MR. GOODELL: IT DOESN'T REQUIRE ANY NOTICE TO
PARENTS THEMSELVES ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF CONTROLLING THE INTERNET
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACCESS?
MS. ROZIC: NO.
MR. GOODELL: IT'S JUST FOCUSED ON THE PLATFORMS
THEMSELVES.
MS. ROZIC: IT IS JUST FOCUSED ON THE DESIGN FEATURE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I
APPRECIATE YOUR CLARIFICATIONS.
SIR, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. I SHARE THE
CONCERNS RAISED BY MY COLLEAGUES ABOUT THE PERVASIVE IMPACT OF
INTERNET AND THESE HANDHELD APPS. I HAVE SEEN PARENTS WHEELING THEIR
KIDS IN BABY CARRIAGES WITH THE KIDS HOLDING WHAT WOULD APPEAR TO BE
LIKE A CELL PHONE WATCHING SOME GAME, WHETHER IT'S SOME VERSION OF
SUPER MARIO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND THERE'S NO DOUBT, BY THE WAY,
THAT THESE DEVICES CAN BE EXTRAORDINARILY HELPFUL FOR KIDS LEARNING THEIR
COLORS AND NUMBERS AND THERE'S A LOT OF EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS THAT ARE
OUT THERE THAT ARE REALLY PRETTY COOL AND REALLY HELPFUL. BUT I'M A LITTLE
CONCERNED ON THE AMBIGUITY OF THIS BILL COUPLED WITH VERY HIGH FINES.
SO WE'RE TOLD THAT AN ADDICTIVE FEED OCCURS WHEN THE INTERNET PROVIDER
GIVES US INFORMATION THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR. AND I'M SURE THIS HAS
HAPPENED TO ALL OF YOU. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN WHAT'S HAPPENING IN
UKRAINE AND YOU PICK UP THE FIRST STORY, RIGHT BELOW IT WILL BE ALL THE
REST OF THE STORIES ABOUT UKRAINE. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN BUYING A NEW
BLENDER, YOU KNOW IT'S PHENOMENAL, YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN SEE A WHOLE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
BUNCH OF DIFFERENT ADS FOR DIFFERENT BLENDERS. WHATEVER IT IS, THEY'RE
VERY, VERY SOPHISTICATED IN HELPING YOU FIND WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR,
WHICH MEANS THAT VIRTUALLY EVERY PROGRAM OUT THERE IN GOOGLE OR
FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE OR WHATEVER WOULD FALL WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF
AN ADDICTIVE FEED, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE WANT THEM TO DO. IF YOU'RE
LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING ON GLOBAL WARMING,
THEY'LL HELP COLLECT IT ALL. AND THEY ARE BECOMING INCREASINGLY
SOPHISTICATED WITH ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IN HELPING YOU FIND WHAT
YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. SO IF EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM, YOU KNOW, GETS A HIGH
FIVE AND APPRECIATES THE FACT THAT ALL THESE PROGRAMS ARE WORKING THE
WAY THEY'RE INTENDED TO IN HELPING US FIND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR VERY
QUICKLY, THEN WE RECOGNIZE THAT UNDER THIS DEFINITION ALMOST EVERY
SINGLE PLATFORM OUT THERE IS QUOTE, "ADDICTIVE". SO THEN, FOR THE
INTERNET PROVIDER, WHO IS DOING EXACTLY WHAT WE HOPE IT WOULD DO
WHEN WE'RE ON IT, HAS TO IDENTIFY WHO IS UNDER THE AGE OF 18. HOW
WOULD THEY IDENTIFY WHO IS UNDER THE AGE OF 18? IT'S NOT LIKE THEY CAN
ASK FOR A DRIVER'S LICENSE FOR USERS. ALL OF US WOULD OPPOSE THAT, AND
THE ANSWER IS THEY PROBABLY USE VERY SOPHISTICATED ALGORITHMS TO TRY TO
TRACK THE VERY ACTIVITY OF THE USER IN AN EFFORT TO ASSOCIATE THEIR ACTIVITY
WITH THEIR AGE. SO IF THE USER IS LOOKING UP CARTOONS, UNLESS THEY'RE ON
THE FLOOR OF THE LEGISLATURE, PRESUMABLY THAT IS AN INDICATION OF THEIR
YOUTH. MAYBE IF THEY ARE ON THERE UNTIL THREE IN THE MORNING, WELL PAST
MY BEDTIME, THAT MIGHT BE AN INDICATION. BUT THIS DOESN'T TELL YOU ANY
REALLY EFFECTIVE WAY TO DETERMINE HOW THESE KIDS ARE, WHO THESE KIDS
ARE. AND THEN THERE'S AN EXCEPTION IF IT'S A QUOTE, "VERIFIABLE PARENTAL
64
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CONSENT" AND AGAIN, EXCUSE ME, NO DEFINITION. AND THEN WE'RE TOLD THAT
AFTER THEY USE THESE SOPHISTICATED ALGORITHMS TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR
NOT A PERSON IS YOUNG OR NOT, THEY'RE IMMEDIATELY TO DELETE ALL THE DATA.
AND IF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SUBSEQUENTLY DETERMINES THAT THEY WEREN'T
EFFECTIVE, BY LAW WE ELIMINATE THEIR ABILITY TO EVEN DEFEND THEMSELVES.
THAT'S AN UNUSUAL APPROACH TO DUE PROCESS, ISN'T IT? AND THEN WE
CHARGE $5,000 PER PENALTY WHICH MY COLLEAGUE ACKNOWLEDGED WOULD
MEAN PER INDIVIDUAL, PER DAY, PER HOUR, PER MINUTE HUGE, HUGE FINES.
SO I AM ABSOLUTELY, COMPLETELY IN SUPPORT OF PARENTS IN THEIR EFFORTS TO
CONTROL THE USE OF THE INTERNET AND THAT IS EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT AS
MY COLLEAGUES HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED. AND I AM SUPPORTIVE OF EFFORTS TO
TRY TO REIGN IN THE WORST OF THE INTERNET. THE CONCERN I HAVE IS ALL OF
THIS RESTS ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, NOT ON OUR IT EXPERTS THAT WE
EMPLOY HERE IN THE STATE AND WE EXPECT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHO IS
AN ELECTED POLITICIAN, TO BE ON TOP OF THE MOST SOPHISTICATED TECHNOLOGY
WHILE WE'RE EXCLUDING THE PLATFORMS FROM KEEPING ANY INFORMATION
THAT THEY MIGHT USE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, AND THEN I AM SURE WE'LL ALL
EXPRESS SHOCK AND DISMAY WHEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL BRINGS
MULTIMILLION DOLLAR LAWSUITS ON FRONT PAGE HEADLINES AS A CHAMPION OF
CHILDREN AFTER WE, BY LAW, DIRECT THE COMPANIES, ELIMINATE ALL THE
INFORMATION THEY COULD USE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. I CERTAINLY SUPPORT
THIS PROCESS. I CERTAINLY SUPPORT THOSE EFFORTS. I CERTAINLY HAVE DEEP
RESERVATIONS OVER THE DUE PROCESS AND THE RATIONALE OF THIS. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I FIRST WANT TO START
WITH THANKING THE SPONSOR AND THE ENTIRE TEAM OF ADVOCATES THAT SHE
HAS BEEN WORKING WITH, INCLUDING THOSE FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S
OFFICE TO PUT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION TOGETHER. IS IT TO THE END ALL TO BE
ALL? I REALLY DOUBT IT BUT I THINK IT'S A GREAT START. AND AT LEAST WE'RE
GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO SOME IN DEPTH LOOKS AT SOME OF THE
UNSCRUPULOUS PEOPLE WHO ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF YOUNG PEOPLE
BECAUSE THEY CAN. I REALIZED THAT SINCE 1960 WHEN EVERYBODY STARTED
TO HAVE MICROWAVES IN THEIR HOME, EVERYTHING HAD TO HAPPEN AT A FAST
PACE. EVERYBODY WANTED TO MOVE AT A FAST PACE. AND THEN CELL PHONES
CAME OUT AND WE PROBABLY SHOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN OUR CHILDREN CELL
PHONES. WHY DO THEY NEED A CELL PHONE IN SCHOOL? WELL, A LOT OF
THINGS ARE STRANGE IN OUR SOCIETY. WE GOT PEOPLE WHO GO INTO SCHOOLS
WITH GUNS AND, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO BE ABLE TO CALL
YOU IF SOMETHING IS HAPPENING. AND SO THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LOT AND
WE HAVE TO ADAPT TO THAT CHANGE IN ORDER TO PROTECT NOT JUST OUR
CHILDREN BUT OUR CITIZENS IN GENERAL. SO, AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR
WORK ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES
IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. OTIS.
MR. OTIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT TO THANK
THE SPONSOR FOR HER GOOD WORK. THIS BILL WAS WORKED ON ALSO BY THE
STAFF OF OUR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY COMMITTEE. CERTAINLY A LOT OF
INVOLVEMENT WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE. THE IMPORTANT THING
TO REMEMBER HERE IS THAT KIDS ARE EXPOSED TO A LOT OF THINGS THAT THEY
SHOULD NOT BE EXPOSED TO BY THE SEDUCTIVE NATURE OF WHAT OCCURS ON THE
INTERNET TODAY. AND SO AROUND THE COUNTRY, STATES AND HOPEFULLY THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL LOOK AT THIS ISSUE AS WELL, WE NEED TO PROVIDE
BETTER LEVEL OF PROTECTION FOR KIDS FOR THE KINDS OF SEDUCTIVE MATERIAL
THAT IS ON THE INTERNET. THE KINDS OF TOOLS THAT ARE USED TO SUCK THEM IN
TO SPENDING MORE TIME ON AND ALL SORTS OF RABBIT HOLES THAT ARE -- ARE
NOT SAFE FOR THEM. SO MY COMPLIMENTS TO THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL. THIS
IS AN IMPORTANT STEP, I SEE WE HAVE VERY STRONG SUPPORT HERE. THAT'S
GOOD. WE'RE TAKING A STEP THAT'S REALLY NEEDED AROUND THE COUNTRY ON
THIS ISSUE. I VOTE AYE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. OTIS IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 21, RULES REPORT NO. 535, THE CLERK WILL READ.
(APPLAUSE)
67
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: S07695-B, SENATOR GOUNARDES
(ASSEMBLY NO. 08149-A -- ROZIC, REYES, SHIMSKY, MAGNARELLI,
HEVESI, BUTTENSCHON, FAHY, DICKENS, MCMAHON, GLICK, DE LOS
SANTOS, DURSO, MCDONOUGH, GANDOLFO, SIMON, ZACCARO, DESTEFANO,
WALLACE, BERGER, BURDICK, SEAWRIGHT, MCDONALD, BEEPHAN, SMULLEN,
MANKTELOW, J.A. GIGLIO, SLATER, ARDILA, SILLITTI, DARLING, K. BROWN,
EPSTEIN, LEVENBERG, WEPRIN, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, LUPARDO, MIKULIN,
PAULIN, SOLAGES, SANTABARBARA, L. ROSENTHAL, DAVILA, BURGOS,
CHANDLER-WATERMAN, TAYLOR, ZEBROWSKI, JENSEN, KIM, RIVERA,
ZINERMAN, MAHER, WALKER, CUNNINGHAM, CONRAD, CLARK, JACKSON,
DAIS, RAJKUMAR, FALL, LUNSFORD, FORREST, LEE, GIBBS, ANDERSON,
LAVINE, STERN, BRAUNSTEIN, DINOWITZ, JEAN-PIERRE, SEPTIMO, KELLES,
O'DONNELL, COOK, GUNTHER, BURKE, AUBRY, JONES, STIRPE, SAYEGH,
RAGA, GALLAHAN, TAPIA, THIELE, GALLAGHER, ALVAREZ, SIMONE,
EICHENSTEIN, PRETLOW, MORINELLO, SHRESTHA, EACHUS, MEEKS, JACOBSON,
BRABENEC, COLTON, OTIS, STECK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS
LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE NEW YORK CHILD DATA PROTECTION
ACT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS
REQUESTED.
MS. ROZIC: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS IS THE
NEW YORK CHILD DATA PROTECTION ACT. IT REQUIRES PRIVACY PROTECTIONS
IN PLACE FOR MINORS ONLINE BECAUSE KIDS ARE HAVING THEIR PERSONAL DATA
INCLUDING THEIR LOCATION DATA USED OR SOLD TO THIRD-PARTIES WITHOUT THEIR
AWARENESS OR CONSENT. THE PLATFORMS OFTEN USE SIGNIFICANT DATA THEY
68
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
COLLECT FROM MINORS TO TARGET ADVERTISING TO THEM IN WAYS THAT ARE
HIGHLY PERSONALIZED TO THEIR DEMOGRAPHICS AND USAGE PATTERNS. ALL OF
THIS OCCURS WITHOUT ANY OVERSIGHT OR CONSENT. TO PROTECT THE KIDS'
PRIVACY, THIS BILL WILL PROHIBIT ALL ONLINE SITES FROM COLLECTING, USING,
SHARING OR SELLING PERSONAL DATA OF ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 18 UNLESS
THEY RECEIVE INFORMED CONSENT OR UNLESS DOING SO IS STRICTLY NECESSARY
FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE WEBSITE. FOR USERS UNDER 13, THIS INFORMED
CONSENT COMES FROM THE PARENT. FROM 13 TO 18, THE USER CAN PROVIDE
CONSENT. THE BILL ALSO AUTHORIZES THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO
ENFORCE THE LAW AND AGAIN SEEK DAMAGES OR CIVIL PENALTIES OF UP TO
$5,000 PER VIOLATION.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. ROZIC: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MS. ROZIC. I -- I SEE
THAT THIS BILL APPLIES TO INTERNET OPERATORS THAT QUOTE, "ACTUALLY KNOW
THAT THE USER IS UNDER THE AGE OF 18." LOOKING AT PAGE -- LINE 2, I'M
SORRY, PAGE 2, LINE 12, RIGHT, THAT'S THE STANDARD, IT'S TRIGGERED BASED ON
THE COVERED USER BEING ACTUALLY KNOWN TO BE UNDER THAT AGE, CORRECT?
MS. ROZIC: YES.
MR. GOODELL: AND THIS APPLIES TO INFORMATION
THAT'S QUOTE, "PRIMARILY DIRECTED TO MINORS." WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
WHEN YOU SAY "PRIMARILY," DO YOU MEAN MORE THAN 50 PERCENT, 90
69
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PERCENT?
MS. ROZIC: IT'S DEFINED IN THE BILL. SO PAGE 2 AT THE
TOP, LINE 6, PRIMARILY DIRECTED TO MINORS. THAT SECTION.
MR. GOODELL: I'M SORRY. COULD YOU SPEAK UP? I
CAN'T HEAR YOU.
MS. ROZIC: THAT SECTION -- IT'S DEFINED IN ON -- PAGE
2, LINE 6, WHERE IT SAYS PRIMARILY DIRECTED TO MINORS SHALL MEAN A
WEBSITE, ONLINE SERVICE, ONLINE APPLICATION, MOBILE APPLICATION OR
CONNECTED DEVICE OR A PORTION THEREOF THAT IS TARGETED TO MINORS. A
WEBSITE, ONLINE SERVICE, ONLINE APPLICATION, MOBILE APPLICATION OR
CONNECTED DEVICE OR A PORTION THEREOF SHALL NOT BE DEEMED DIRECTED
PRIMARILY SOLELY BECAUSE SUCH WEBSITE, ONLINE SERVICE, ONLINE
APPLICATION, MOBILE APPLICATION OR A CONNECTED DEVICE OR A PORTION
THEREOF REFERS OR LINKS TO ANY OTHER WEBSITE, ONLINE SERVICE, ONLINE
APPLICATION, MOBILE APPLICATION -- I LOST MY PLACE -- OR CONNECTED
DEVICE DIRECTED TO MINORS BY USING INFORMATION, LOCATION TOOLS,
INCLUDING A DICTIONARY, INDEX, REFERENCE, POINTER, HYPERTEXT LINK --
MR. GOODELL: I ACTUALLY -- THANK YOU. I ACTUALLY
READ THE DEFINITION BEFORE I ASKED THE QUESTION. I WAS HOPING YOU
COULD CLARIFY WHAT'S MEANT BY THE WORD "PRIMARILY"?
MS. ROZIC: I MEAN PRIMARILY MEANS PRIMARILY.
MR. GOODELL: WELL, DOES THAT MEAN LIKE MORE
THAN 50 PERCENT, 90 PERCENT? IS THERE ANY DEFINITION IN THE BILL?
MS. ROZIC: THERE'S NO SPELLED OUT DEFINITION OF
PRIMARILY IN THIS BILL.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. BUT -- BUT IN THE BILL
LANGUAGE IT HAS TO BE PRIMARILY -- PRIMARILY DIRECTED.
MS. ROZIC: YES.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND THEN WE'LL JUST USE THE
NORMAL DEFINITION OF PRIMARILY TO MEAN FOCUSED OR --
MS. ROZIC: CORRECT.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. THE -- THE PENALTIES
ARE STILL 5,000 PER VIOLATION?
MS. ROZIC: YES.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL.
MR. GOODELL: WHAT I FIND INTERESTING IS THE
DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN THIS BILL, WHICH I WILL BE SUPPORTING, AND THE PRIOR
BILL, WHICH I DID NOT. AND THIS BILL, THE INTERNET PROVIDER IS LIABLE ONLY
IF THE PERSON WHO IS USING IT IS ACTUALLY KNOWN TO BE UNDER THE AGE OF
18. "ACTUALLY KNOWN" IS A VERY, I THINK STRAIGHTFORWARD AND
APPROPRIATE STANDARD AS OPPOSED TO THE PRIOR ONE WHICH WAS
COMMERCIALLY REASONABLE AND TECHNICALLY FEASIBLE TO IDENTIFY. YOU
KNOW, ONE IS THIS AMORPHOUS CONCEPT THAT IS YET TO BE DEVELOPED BY THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL THAT NONE OF US HAS SEEN AND READ. THIS BILL,
COMPLIMENTS TO THE BILL SPONSOR AND THE DRAFTSMEN, IS A VERY SIMPLE
PHRASE "ACTUALLY KNOWN" TO BE UNDER AGE 18. I'M A LITTLE BIT MYSTIFIED
BY WHAT'S MEANT BY PRIMARILY ATTRACTED TO MINORS BUT AS THE BILL
SPONSOR POINTED OUT, PRIMARILY MEANS EXACTLY WHAT WE THINK.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CERTAINLY FOCUSING ON MINORS AND I THINK THAT'S A REASONABLE DEFINITION
AND A REASONABLE APPROACH. SO I APPRECIATE THE DRAFTSMENS' AND
SPONSOR'S APOLOGIES. I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S EFFORT TO MAKE THIS BILL
MORE PRECISE. I HOPE TO SEE CHAPTER AMENDMENTS DO THE SAME TO THE
PRIOR BILL. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 365TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 30, CALENDAR NO. 43, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01432-C, CALENDAR
NO. 43, AUBRY, CRUZ, DARLING, EPSTEIN, JACKSON, SEAWRIGHT, SIMON,
WEPRIN, ZINERMAN, KELLES, WALKER, MAMDANI, BURGOS, GALLAGHER,
TAYLOR, HEVESI, RAGA, REYES, COOK, GIBBS, SEPTIMO, FORREST, L.
ROSENTHAL, GLICK, WALLACE, SIMONE, CUNNINGHAM, LUCAS, MEEKS,
SHRESTHA, ANDERSON, DAVILLA, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, DE LOS SANTOS,
SHIMSKY SOLAGES, BURDICK, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, RIVERA, LEVENBERG,
JEAN-PIERRE, ZACCARO, LEE, BRONSON, CLARK, CARROLL, BENEDETTO,
72
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
O'DONNELL, HYNDMAN, STIRPE, DINOWITZ, DICKENS, BORES, TAPIA,
MITAYNES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE JUDICIARY LAW, IN RELATION TO REMOVING
THE LIFETIME BAN ON JURY DUTY FOR CONVICTED FELONS.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON A MOTION BY MR.
AUBRY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN ASKED FOR, MR. AUBRY.
MR. AUBRY: THIS BILL WILL REMOVE THE LIFETIME BAN
ON JURY DUTY FOR CONVICTED FELONS. IT WILL PROVIDE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR
THOSE WHO CAN VOTE AND WHO CAN SERVE TO ALSO - AND THAT IS SERVE IN AN
ELECTED OFFICE - AND ALSO SERVE ON JURIES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. TANNOUSIS.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MR. AUBRY: MR. TANNOUSIS, I'D BE PLEASE TO YIELD.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE THAT. I
JUST HAD SOME VERY FEW QUESTIONS. SO MR. AUBRY, OUR UNDERSTANDING
OF COURSE AND I THINK YOU JUST SAID IT, BUT I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM FOR
EVERYONE. THIS BILL WILL ALLOW AN INDIVIDUAL CONVICTED OF A FELONY IN
NEW YORK STATE TO SERVE ON A JURY, CORRECT?
MR. AUBRY: YOU SAID IT ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
MR. TANNOUSIS: AND THAT WOULD BE A CRIMINAL
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
JURY OR A CIVIL JURY, CORRECT?
MR. AUBRY: YES, YOU'RE RIGHT AGAIN.
MR. TANNOUSIS: NOW SOMETHING ELSE THIS BILL
WOULD DO IS WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL IS CONVICTED OF A FELONY, THEY COULD --
THEY COULD SERVE ON A JURY UP UNTIL THE TIME THEY ARE NOT INCARCERATED,
CORRECT?
MR. AUBRY: THEY CAN SERVE -- THEY CAN OFFER
THEMSELVES TO SERVE. FIRST OF ALL, THERE'S NO GUARANTEE, AS YOU KNOW,
THAT IF YOU ARE OFFERING YOURSELF FOR SERVICE, RESPONDING TO THE REQUEST
TO COME AND SERVE ON A JURY, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT GUARANTEED TO SERVE.
NO ONE IS, OBVIOUSLY. SO THERE ARE -- BUT THE COMPLETION OF ALL ASPECTS
OF THEIR SENTENCE, WHICH INCLUDES PAROLE, PROBATION, WHATEVER THE
THINGS, AS LONG AS THEY NO LONGER HAVE ANY OBLIGATION TO THE STATE
RELATED TO THEIR PREVIOUS SENTENCE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: I'M SORRY. IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT
TO HEAR, BUT I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM. AND MAYBE -- I JUST WANT TO
CONFIRM THIS PART OF THE BILL, BECAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING IN REGARDS TO
THIS BILL WAS THAT THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD PRECLUDE SOMEBODY FROM
SERVING ON A JURY OR RESPONDING I SHOULD SAY TO SERVE ON THE JURY IS IF
THEY WERE INCARCERATED. IF THEY WERE ON PAROLE, OR IF THEY WERE ON
PROBATION, THAT WOULD NOT PRECLUDE THEM FROM SERVING ON A JURY. THAT
WAS MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE BILL. I JUST WANT TO SEE IF I'M CORRECT IN
THAT UNDERSTANDING OR PERHAPS I'M MISTAKEN IN THAT UNDERSTANDING.
MR. AUBRY: IT IS NOT.
MR. TANNOUSIS: SO I AM CORRECT IN THAT
74
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
UNDERSTANDING?
MR. AUBRY: YOU'RE CORRECT -- NO. THEY NEED TO --
AS I SAID, THEY NEED TO HAVE COMPLETED ALL THEIR OBLIGATIONS TO THE STATE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. SO THAT WOULD INCLUDE
PROBATION OR PAROLE.
MR. AUBRY: YES.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. UNDERSTOOD, THANK YOU.
NOW, OF COURSE, DURING A JURY PROCESS, CORRECT, EACH ROUND OF WHAT
THEY CALL VOIR DIRE, WHICH IS BASICALLY A POTENTIAL JURY POOL COMING INTO
A COURTROOM AND WHILE THAT JURY POOL IS IN THE COURTROOM, THEY'LL BE
QUESTIONED BY A JUDGE, BY A PROSECUTOR, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE CRIMINAL
ACTION OR BY DEFENSE COUNSEL. IT IS OBVIOUSLY IN NEW YORK STATE THE
LAW THAT IN THAT SITUATION, THE PARTIES, WHETHER IT BE THE PROSECUTOR OR
THE DEFENSE, EACH HAVE WHAT THEY CALL PEREMPTORY CHALLENGES,
CORRECT --
MR. AUBRY: ABSOLUTELY.
MR. TANNOUSIS: -- WHICH IS REMOVING INDIVIDUALS
NON FOR CAUSE, CORRECT?
MR. AUBRY: YES.
MR. TANNOUSIS: AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY ALSO
HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REMOVE PEOPLE FOR CAUSE; IS THAT CORRECT, MR.
AUBRY?
MR. AUBRY: YES, YES.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. AND DURING THAT PROCESS,
SIR, WHEN THEY ARE ASKING QUESTIONS OF THE JURIES -- OF THE JURY --
75
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
POTENTIAL JURY MEMBERS, THE GOAL AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT THEY'RE
ASKED IS THAT IF THEY WILL BE FAIR AND IMPARTIAL TO EITHER SIDE IN THE
SITUATION, WHETHER IT BE THE PROSECUTOR, THE DEFENDANT, THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT OR ANY TYPE OF WITNESS; IS THAT CORRECT?
MR. AUBRY: YES.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. DO YOU THINK THAT THERE'S
A POTENTIALITY WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL IS CONVICTED OF A FELONY THAT THERE IS
A LIKELIHOOD OR EVEN A STRONG LIKELIHOOD THAT THEY MAY BE MORE PARTIAL
TO ONE SIDE OVER THE OTHER? MEANING, THEY'LL BE MORE PARTIAL TO PERHAPS
THE DEFENDANT OVER THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OR EVEN THE -- OR EVEN
EXPERIENCE SOME KIND OF PREJUDICIAL VIEW TOWARDS THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT?
MR. AUBRY: RIGHT. OBVIOUSLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
AN INDIVIDUAL BY INDIVIDUAL CIRCUMSTANCE. AND FROM MY EXPERIENCE
AND WORKING IN THIS FIELD FOR MANY YEARS, I HAVE FOUND NO INDICATION
THAT SOMEONE UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES IS GUARANTEED TO BE ONE SIDE
OR THE OTHER. AND HAVING SOME EXPERIENCE IN CORRECTIONS, I -- I CAN SAY
THAT WITH FAIRLY DEFINITE ASSURANCE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: I APPRECIATE THAT. SO I
APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING YOUR EXPERIENCES IN. SO I JUST THOUGHT IT WOULD
ONLY BE FAIR THAT I BRING MY EXPERIENCES IN AS A PROSECUTOR, AS AN
ATTORNEY AND AS A LITIGATOR. AND GIVEN MY EXPERIENCES BOTH AS A
PROSECUTION SIDE AND EVEN SOMEWHAT POTENTIALLY ON THE DEFENSE SIDE IS
THAT ATTORNEYS HAVE A TENDENCY TO -- OR ARE MORE INCLINED I SHOULD SAY
TO TRY TO PUT INDIVIDUALS ON A JURY THAT DO NOT HAVE HISTORY WITH THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, WHETHER THEY BE AS DEFENDANTS OR VICTIMS OR
EVEN POLICE OFFICERS, BECAUSE THE LAST THING THE ATTORNEYS WOULD WANT TO
HAPPEN IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THE CASE THAT IS BEFORE THEM, LISTEN
TO THE EVIDENCE AND START THINKING ABOUT THEIR OWN CASE, THEIR OWN
FACTS, AND PERHAPS TRY TO DRAW COMPARISONS. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE
REASONS WHY PROSECUTORS ARE EVEN RELUCTANT TO PUT POLICE OFFICERS ON A
JURY AND THAT EVEN DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARE EVEN RELUCTANT TO PUT
DEFENDANTS ON THE JURY --
MR. AUBRY: ARE WE GOING TO END IN A QUESTION
OR --
MR. TANNOUSIS: YES, YES, I AM, THANK YOU. I
APPRECIATE IT. SO GIVEN THAT REASON, DON'T YOU THINK THAT THIS LAW
POTENTIALLY COULD CREATE AN ISSUE WHERE YOU'RE BRINGING A POTENTIAL JURY
POOL THAT WOULD HAVE SOME KIND OF PRIOR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DAS
OFFICE, PERHAPS EVEN THE SAME DAS OFFICE THAT MAY HAVE PROSECUTED
THEM OR THE SAME POLICE PRECINCT THAT PROSECUTED THEM? DO YOU SEE
THAT AS AN ISSUE IN ANY WAY?
MR. AUBRY: SO HERE IN -- IN THIS STATE -- LET ME
ANSWER BY SAYING THIS. IN THIS STATE WE ALLOW INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE
BEEN FELONS TO SERVE IN OFFICE AND PASS LAWS, PROPOSE LAWS, (INAUDIBLE)
ON LAWS. WE ALLOW THEM TO VOTE IN ELECTIONS FOR CANDIDATES ON EITHER
SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM. WE HAVE NO INDICATION THAT A INDIVIDUAL UNDER
THOSE CIRCUMSTANCE IS GOING TO VOTE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. WE
UNDERSTAND THE DIVERSITY OF HUMAN BEINGS AND THEIR REACTIONS TO THEIR
CIRCUMSTANCES. SO I THINK IT WOULD BE SOMEWHAT ILLOGICAL TO DETERMINE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS BEEN IN A CIRCUMSTANCE, THAT THEY ARE
GOING TO BE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. IN FACT, MANY -- AGAIN, MANY
INDIVIDUALS THAT I HAVE MET OVER THE YEARS, AND I HAVE MET QUITE A FEW,
QUITE FRANKLY TEND TO GO MORE TO THE RIGHT THAN THE LEFT BECAUSE OF THEIR
EXPERIENCE. SO A KEEN PROSECUTOR LIKE YOURSELF OR DEFENSE ATTORNEY I
THINK IS CAPABLE OF FIGURING THAT OUT WHEN THEY ENGAGE IN THE PROCESS
OF SELECTING A JURY.
MR. TANNOUSIS: AND I APPRECIATE THE -- YOUR
RESPONSE, BUT JUST THE POINT THAT I WANT TO MAKE IS, YOU KNOW, AS AN
ATTORNEY, WHETHER I'M A PROSECUTOR OR A DEFENSE ATTORNEY OR EVEN AS A
JUDGE, WHATEVER EXPERIENCES THAT INDIVIDUAL MAY HAVE, I THINK THE GOAL
OF AN ATTORNEY IS TO TRY TO PICK SOMEONE THAT'S NOT GOING TO USE THAT
PRIOR EXPERIENCE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION ON THAT CASE. RATHER -- THEY
RATHER PICK SOMEONE THAT BASICALLY IS GOING TO LISTEN TO THE EVIDENCE,
LISTEN TO THE LAW, APPLIED ADEQUATELY WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT ANYTHING
ELSE BUT I APPRECIATE THAT RESPONSE.
I JUST WANT TO GO THROUGH TWO OR THREE MORE QUESTIONS.
MR. AUBRY, IS THERE ANY TYPE OF CAP AS TO THE AMOUNT OF FELONIES A
PERSON -- PERHAPS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FELONIES WOULD MAKE THEM
INELIGIBLE TO SERVE ON THE JURY DUTY?
MR. AUBRY: SAY THAT AGAIN. I'M SORRY.
MR. TANNOUSIS: IS THERE A CAP ON THE -- PERHAPS IF
THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FELONIES A PERSON CAN BE CONVICTED OF.
MR. AUBRY: NO.
MR. TANNOUSIS: SO NO MATTER HOW MANY FELONIES
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THEY'RE CONVICTED OF THEY COULD STILL SERVE?
MR. AUBRY: AS LONG AS THEY'VE COMPLETED ALL THE
SENTENCE OWED TO THE STATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE DESCRIBED,
THEY WOULD BE ELIGIBLE TO OFFER THEMSELVES UP TO A JURY.
MR. TANNOUSIS: IS THERE ANY TYPE OF LIMITATION ON
-- IN REGARDS TO WHAT TYPE OF FELONY THE PERSON CAN BE CONVICTED FOR
THAT PERHAPS WOULD EFFECT WHAT KIND OF JURY THEY COULD SERVE ON?
MR. AUBRY: RIGHT. NO, NO.
MR. TANNOUSIS: AND FINALLY, IS THERE A LIMITATION
ON THE TYPE OF CASE SOMEONE CONVICTED OF A FELONY COULD BE SEATED FOR?
MR. AUBRY: NO.
MR. TANNOUSIS: PERFECT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH
FOR YOUR TIME.
ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON THE BILL, MR.
TANNOUSIS.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR
ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. AND AS AN ATTORNEY, AS A FORMER PROSECUTOR,
AS SOMEONE THAT HAS TRIED COUNTLESS JURY TRIALS TO VERDICT, IN MY
EXPERIENCE WHETHER ON THE CRIMINAL SIDE, AS A PROSECUTOR OR ON THE
CIVIL SIDE, ATTORNEYS TYPICALLY AND FOR THE RIGHT REASONS, OF COURSE, TRY TO
SEEK JURORS THAT DO NOT HAVE EXPERIENCE ANY RELATED TO THE SUBJECT
MATTER AT HAND. THAT IS WHY AS A PROSECUTOR I WAS RELUCTANT TO ACTUALLY
PUT POLICE OFFICERS ON A JURY, I WAS RELUCTANT TO PUT DEFENDANTS ON A
JURY, I WAS RELUCTANT TO PUT VICTIMS ON A JURY BECAUSE AS PEOPLE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
POTENTIALLY MAY THINK THAT ONE TYPE OF WITNESS IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER, AT
THE END OF THE DAY YOU DO NOT WANT A JUROR ON THE -- ON THE TRIAL THAT'S
GOING TO BRING ANY TYPE OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OR BIAS INTO IT. YOU
WANT A JUROR THAT'S GOING TO LISTEN TO THE FACTS OPENLY, LISTEN TO THE
JUDGE AND APPLY THE LAW ACCORDINGLY WITHOUT APPLYING ANY TYPE OF
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ON THE MATTER. NOW I WOULD NOTE, THIS BILL DOES
NOT INCLUDE ANY TYPE OF CHANGES INTO THE AMOUNT PERHAPS OF
PEREMPTORY CHALLENGES WHERE AN ATTORNEY COULD ASK SOMEONE -- OR ASK
TO REMOVE SOMEONE WITHOUT CAUSE OR EVEN ANY TYPE OF CHANGES TO THE
FOR CAUSE REQUIREMENTS FOR REMOVAL OF AN INDIVIDUAL. IN MY TIME IN
BOTH IN THE BRONX COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND IN THE
RICHMOND COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE
CONVICTED OF FELONIES WERE STILL GETTING JURY SUMMONSES BECAUSE, OF
COURSE, CRIMINAL RECORDS ARE SEALED SOMETIMES, CORRECT. SO EVEN
THOUGH THEY WOULD HAVE HAD A CRIMINAL CONVICTION, IF THE VOTER
REGISTRATION -- IF THEY -- IF THE CRIMINAL CHARGE WAS NOT GIVEN TO THE
RIGHT AUTHORITIES, THEY WOULD STILL GET A THING IN THE MAIL TO SHOW UP FOR
JURY DUTY. AND WHEN THEY SHOW UP TO JURY DUTY AND IT WAS THEN FOUND
OUT THAT THEY HAD A CRIMINAL CONVICTION, UPON QUESTIONING THEY WOULD
BASICALLY REVEAL THAT THEY WOULD HAVE SOME KIND OF BIAS, WHETHER IT
WAS THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, BECAUSE THEY WERE PROSECUTED OR TO
THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, PERHAPS IT WAS THE SAME PRECINCT THAT WAS
INVOLVED IN THIS CASE. SO IT ENDED UP THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS COULD NOT
BE FAIR AND IMPARTIAL. I THINK THIS BILL WILL CREATE A LITTLE BIT OF CHAOS IN
REGARDS TO THE JURY SELECTION PROCESS, AND I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SPONSOR IN THIS CASE. I UNDERSTAND THIS IS WELL-INTENTIONED, BUT I THINK
THAT THIS BILL AT THIS POINT WOULD NOT BE GOOD FOR THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM AND WILL NOT DO RIGHT BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK. I
CANNOT SUPPORT IT AND I WILL BE VOTING NO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. MCGOWAN.
MR. MCGOWAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MR. AUBRY: CERTAINLY, MR. MCGOWAN. I'D BE
HAPPY TO YIELD.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. MCGOWAN: THANK YOU, SIR. I APPRECIATE IT. I
JUST WANT TO PICK UP ON A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT MY COLLEAGUE WAS
POSING TO YOU JUST A FEW MOMENTS AGO. IS THERE ANY -- DOES THIS BILL
SPEAK TO ANY RESTRICTIONS IN A JUROR WHO IS A CONVICTED FELON SERVING ON
A JURY IN A CRIMINAL CASE INVOLVING THE SAME OFFICE THAT PROSECUTED THAT
FELON?
MR. AUBRY: THAT THE PROSECUTOR DID WHAT?
MR. MCGOWAN: THAT FELON. THAT PERSPECTIVE
JUROR WHO'S A CONVICTED FELON.
MR. AUBRY: NO.
MR. MCGOWAN: SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN MY HOME
COUNTY, ROCKLAND COUNTY, IF SOMEBODY WAS CONVICTED OF A FELONY BY
THE ROCKLAND COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND THEN AFTER SERVING
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
HIS OR HER SENTENCE, COMPLETING THE OBLIGATION TO THE STATE, WAS THEN
CALLED AS A PERSPECTIVE JURY IN A CRIMINAL CASE COULD SIT ON A JURY IN A
CASE BEING PROSECUTED BY THE ROCKLAND COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S
OFFICE IN THAT EXAMPLE.
MR. AUBRY: RIGHT. SO THE QUESTION IS MORE ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT THE PROSECUTOR OR THE DEFENSE WOULD HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO OBJECT, RIGHT, AND WE KNOW THAT THAT EXISTS. SO THE -- THE
ABILITY TO SERVE IS NOT A GUARANTEE TO SERVE. IT IS THE ABILITY TO GO
THROUGH THE PROCESS TO SERVE. IF YOU'RE OBJECTED TO BY EITHER SIDE, YOU
DON'T SERVE AS YOU HAVE SAID. SO WE WOULD SUSPECT THAT THOSE ARE THE
NATURAL PROCESSES THAT THEY GO THROUGH AND IT WOULD HOLD CASE IN ANY OF
THE CASES THAT YOU'RE GOING TO PROVIDE.
MR. MCGOWAN: SURE. SO I THINK - AND I
APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSE AND I THINK IN SOME OF YOUR RESPONSES TO MY
COLLEAGUE'S QUESTIONS, THIS BILL HAS NO EFFECT ON THE ABILITY TO QUALIFY
THAT JUROR THROUGH QUESTIONING AND EXAMINATION BY THE ATTORNEYS AND
THE ABILITY TO CHALLENGE FOR CAUSE OR PEREMPTORY, CORRECT? THERE'S NO
CHANGES TO THAT PROCESS THROUGH THIS LEGISLATION.
MR. AUBRY: NO, IT IS NOT.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO I GUESS THEN JUST SO I'M
CLEAR, THERE IS NO PROHIBITION INTO WHAT TYPE OF CASE OR THE VENUE OR THE
OTHER SIDE BEING THE PROSECUTOR, WHO PREVIOUSLY PROSECUTED THAT
DEFENDANT, THERE'S NOTHING RESTRICTING THAT PERSON FROM SERVING.
MR. AUBRY: AS I THINK YOU KNOW IN YOUR OWN
PROFESSION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(LAUGHTER)
MR. MCGOWAN: AND WITH THAT AS I'VE LEARNED, NO
FURTHER QUESTIONS.
MR. AUBRY: THANK YOU.
(LAUGHTER/APPLAUSE)
MR. MCGOWAN: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL IF I MAY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON THE BILL, MR.
MCGOWAN.
MR. MCGOWAN: WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH AND I --
I -- I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR'S WILLINGNESS TO ENGAGE IN -- IN
DISCUSSION AND DEBATE ON THIS TOPIC AND -- AND I DO APPRECIATE THE
INTENTION OF THIS BILL. CERTAINLY SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN CONVICTED AND
SERVED THEIR OBLIGATION TO THE STATE BY WAY OF WHATEVER THE PUNISHMENT
IS - PERIOD OF INCARCERATION, PROBATION, POST-RELEASE SUPERVISION,
WHATEVER IT MAY BE. WE WANT, I THINK AS A -- AS A BODY AND AS A
SOCIETY, WE WANT THOSE INDIVIDUALS TO HAVE PRODUCTIVE LIVES AND TO BE
CIVICALLY ENGAGED AND TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN ALL ASPECTS OF THEIR
LIFE ONCE THEY HAVE SERVED THEIR TIME OR COMPLETED THEIR OBLIGATION. SO
I APPRECIATE THAT, I REALLY DO AND I -- I FIND IT SOMEWHAT FUNNY THAT IN
ALL MY TIME AS A PROSECUTOR AND -- AND THEN AS AN ATTORNEY, IT WAS
ALWAYS HARD TO GET PEOPLE TO WANT TO SERVE ON A JURY. MOST PEOPLE
WANT TO FIND ANY EXCUSE TO GET OUT THE DOOR RATHER THAN TO SIT IN THAT
COURTROOM AND BE A PERSPECTIVE JUROR. SO IT WAS ALWAYS A CHALLENGE TO
GET PEOPLE TO BE ENGAGED CIVICALLY. AND CERTAINLY I APPRECIATE THE IDEA
OF WE'RE GOING TO FIND MORE ELIGIBLE VOTERS. BUT I THINK THERE'S -- I
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
REALLY FEEL FUNDAMENTALLY THAT -- THAT THERE'S AN IMBALANCE IN THIS. AND
I REALLY THINK IT'S IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SIDE WITH -- WITH THE CRIMINAL
TRIAL, CRIMINAL CASE PERHAPS MORE THAN A CIVIL CASE, SOMEONE WHO HAS A
PRIOR FELONY CONVICTION, BECAUSE AS WE ALL KNOW IN THIS STATE EVERY
CRIME, THE CAPTION IS THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK AGAINST THE
DEFENDANT. NOW ON A CIVIL CASE IF LET'S SAY THERE WAS A LITIGATION
INVOLVING A, YOU KNOW, AN ENTITY AND A PERSPECTIVE JUROR HAD SUED THAT
ENTITY, HAD BEEN A PARTY TO A PRIOR LITIGATION INVOLVING AN ENTITY AND
THEN CAME BEFORE AS A PERSPECTIVE JUROR, I'M PRETTY SURE THERE'D BE AN
ISSUE THERE, AND PERHAPS THERE WOULD BE A CHALLENGE, WHETHER A
PREEMPTORY CHALLENGE, IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A REASON OR CHALLENGE FOR
CAUSE, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT WOULD CREATE AN ISSUE. AND HERE WE
HAVE SET UP THE SAME PARTY, THE PLAINTIFF, THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF
NEW YORK AGAINST A DEFENDANT WHO CAN THEN LATER SERVE, WHO CAN LATER
SERVE AND THERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS ON SERVING IN THE SAME VENUE AND
INVOLVING THE SAME OFFICE THAT HAD PROSECUTED THAT PERSON PREVIOUSLY.
I THINK THEY'RE JUST SET UP INTO THAT DESPITE BEST INTENTIONS, DESPITE THE
LAUDABLE GOALS THAT I -- THAT I DO BELIEVE THIS BILL SPONSOR HAS IN
PROPOSING THIS LEGISLATION. I DO BELIEVE BUILT INTO THE FABRIC OF THIS ISN'T
-- IS A FAIRNESS ISSUE THAT REALLY CAN'T BE RESOLVED. THERE -- WHAT WE --
WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE
AND OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM IN GENERAL WHETHER IT'S ON THE CIVIL SIDE OR THE
CRIMINAL SIDE. WE WANT TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF JURORS, AND WHEN
YOU HAVE A PERSPECTIVE JUROR WHO IS ALLOWED AND PERMITTED TO SIT IN A
CASE WHERE THEY PREVIOUSLY LOST IN SOME WAY, WHETHER THROUGH A JURY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PROCESS OF THEMSELVES OR A TRIAL AND VERDICT OR THROUGH ACCEPTING A
GUILTY PLEA, THEY WERE CONVICTED. AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO LET THAT
PERSON COME IN AND SIT AS A JUROR. AND I THINK THE FOUNDATIONAL REASON
OF WHY THIS HAS BEEN PROHIBITED PREVIOUSLY IS A SOUND ONE. AND I DON'T
THINK THAT THIS LEGISLATION IS SOMETHING THAT -- THAT WE WANT TO DO.
ONCE AGAIN, THERE HAS TO BE CONSEQUENCES TO CRIMINALITY. THERE HAVE
TO BE. AND TO ME THIS BILL JUST CREATES AN IMBALANCE THAT, IN MY
OPINION, GOES TOO FAR. SO AGAIN, WHERE I APPRECIATE AND I RESPECT VERY
MUCH THE SPONSOR'S EXPERIENCE IN THIS FIELD AND HIS COMMENTS, I JUST,
FOR ME, THIS -- THIS IS A BRIDGE TOO FAR AND SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT IS
NOT SUPPORTED BY THIS BODY AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO
VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE ON IT. SO WITH THAT SAID, MR. SPEAKER, I WILL BE IN
THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. GIBBS.
MR. GIBBS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I AM PROUD
AND I RISE TO SPEAK ON THIS PART OF 1432-A SPONSORED BY SPEAKER PRO
TEM AUBRY WHICH WILL REPEAL THE LIFETIME BAN ON JURY SERVICE FOR
PEOPLE CONVICTED OF A FELONY. THE PREMISE OF THIS BILL IS SIMPLE. ONCE
YOU HAVE SERVED YOUR TIME AND REPAID YOUR DEBT TO SOCIETY YOU SHOULD
BE ABLE TO SERVE ON JURY DUTY. THIS IS NOT A NEW CONCEPT. WE HAVE
RECOGNIZED THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO REESTABLISH THEMSELVES POST-
INCARCERATION AND ENJOY THE RIGHTS THAT OTHER CITIZENS DO. IN RECENT
YEARS WE HAVE BANNED THE BOX BY OUTLAWING ASKING ABOUT PRIOR
CONVICTIONS ON EMPLOYMENT APPLICATIONS. WE HAVE REPEALED THE
LIFELONG VOTING BAN AND RESTORED VOTING RIGHTS TO MILLIONS OF NEW
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
YORKERS AS WE PASSED CLEAN SLATE TO REMOVE THE MYRIAD OF RESTRICTIONS
AND OBSTACLES THAT COME WITH A CRIMINAL CONVICTION, BUT STILL PEOPLE
CONVICTED OF A FELONY ARE BARRED FROM SERVING ON A JURY. SO OFTEN WE
HEAR OF FOLKS WHO WANT TO GET OUT OF JURY DUTY, MANY OF WHOM DO NOT
REALIZE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF BEING ON A JURY. WHEN YOU SERVE ON A JURY,
YOU ARE THE LAST CHECK OF THE PROSECUTORS TO ASSURE THEY ARE PROPERLY
APPLYING AND ENFORCING THE LAW. PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, MANY OF THEM THROUGH PLEA DEALS THAT NEVER
EVEN MAKE IT TO A, JURY, UNDERSTAND THE SUPREME ROAD THAT A JURY PLAYS
IN DETERMINING SOMEONE'S FATE. MY OWN STORY, WHICH MANY OF YOU
KNOW, WOULD HAVE LOOKED A LOT DIFFERENT IF I HAD A LAWYER TO TAKE MY
CASE IN SELF-DEFENSE IN FRONT OF A JURY OF MY PEERS. I WANT TO THANK THE
ASSEMBLY SPONSOR, SPEAKER PRO TEM AUBRY, FOR SPONSORING THIS
LEGISLATION AND HIS DECADES OF WORK ON BEHALF OF INCARCERATED
INDIVIDUALS AS WE NEAR HIS RETIREMENT AT THE END OF THIS YEAR. AUBRY,
YOU'RE A HERO TO ME AND TO MANY OF THE OTHERS WHO OVER THE YEARS
LISTENED AND WATCHED YOUR LEGISLATION. MAJORITY OF THE MAIL THAT I GET
TODAY IN MY OFFICE IS IN REGARDS TO YOUR LEGISLATION AND THE WOMEN AND
THE MEN THANK YOU. I ENCOURAGE ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN FAVOR
OF THIS LONG OVERDUE PIECE OF LEGISLATION. MR. SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING
IN THE AFFIRMATIVE PROUDLY. THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MS. WALKER.
MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO
COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON A LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT OF BREAKING
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
GENERATIONAL CURSES NOT JUST HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, BUT IN OUR
COUNTRY. THERE IS A STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE BY JOHN ADAMS IN 1744
WHICH INDICATES THAT A TRIAL BY JURY IS THE HEART AND LUNGS OF LIBERTY.
WE KNOW THAT IT IS ESSENTIAL TO DUE PROCESS AS AIR, FOOD AND WATER IS TO
LIFE. WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE HAS BEEN A NUMBER OF EXCLUSIONS FROM
FULL AMERICAN PARTICIPATION IN LIFE AND MANY OF THESE THINGS ARE ROOTED
IN CITIZENSHIP. WHEN YOU ARE A CONVICTED FELON, YOU LOSE THE RIGHT TO
POSSESS AND BEAR ARMS. YOU LOSE THE ESSENTIAL RIGHT TO VOTE. YOU AT
ONE POINT IN TIME LOST THE RIGHT TO BE COUNTED IN THE CENSUS BECAUSE
YOU WEREN'T EVEN CONSIDERED A CITIZEN. YOU WERE RESTORED BACK TO
SLAVERY BY THE MERE CONNECTION THAT YOU HAVE WITH THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM. AND SO THIS IS A LIBERATION MOMENT AND I PROUDLY SUPPORT THE
FACT THAT WE ARE DOING AN AUTOMATIC RESTORATION OF THE RIGHT TO SERVE ON
A JURY BECAUSE PEOPLE DESERVE TO BE BROUGHT BEFORE A JURY OF THEIR
PEERS. WHY IS THIS SO IMPORTANT? I REMEMBER THAT THERE WAS A CASE
WHERE THERE WAS A YOUNG MAN WHO WAS BEING TRIED FOR ROBBERY, AND
THE ONE THING THAT HE UTILIZED AS HIS DEFENSE WAS THAT I COULD NOT HAVE
BEEN IN THIS PLACE BECAUSE I WAS AT THE CHINESE RESTAURANT GETTING AN
ORDER OF CHICKEN WINGS AND FRENCH FRIES. AND THE JURY COULD NOT
UNDERSTAND THAT YOU COULD GO TO THE CHINESE RESTAURANT TO GET CHICKEN
WINGS AND FRENCH FRIES BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE CHICKEN WINGS AND
FRENCH FRIES IN EVERY CHINESE RESTAURANT ACROSS AMERICA. THAT IS THE
LEVEL OF CULTURAL COMPETENCY THAT SO MANY INDIVIDUALS ARE ROBBED FROM
WHEN THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS AGAIN TO A JURY OF
YOUR PEERS. QUITE FRANKLY, THERE WAS A LAWSUIT WHERE 25 PERCENT OF THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
BLACK POPULATION EQUALING OVER 38,000 PEOPLE WERE DISQUALIFIED FROM
SERVING ON A JURY, AND IT'S A CRAZY CYCLE THAT GETS SET UP BECAUSE IF YOU
DON'T GET A JURY OF YOUR PEERS, IF YOU'RE IN A CRIMINAL CASE AND YOU'RE
SUBSEQUENTLY CONVICTED AND THEN YOU COME BACK AROUND AND YOU'RE NOT
ALLOWED TO SERVE ON A JURY AND THEN WE KEEP PUTTING PEOPLE INTO THAT
SAME SYSTEM THAT KEEPS US OUT, IT KEEPS US DOWN AND DENIES US ALL OF
THE RIGHTS AND THE RESPONSIBILITIES AND THE LIBERTIES OF BEING AN
AMERICAN. AND AS SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES TALKS ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE
DON'T WANT PEOPLE WHO ARE TAINTED WHO MAY BE BIASED TO SERVE ON
JURIES, BUT GUESS WHAT? THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE HAVE VOIR DIRE, AND
YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO SAY YOU KNOW WHAT? THERE
MIGHT BE A SITUATION WHERE THIS PERSON MIGHT HAVE BEEN ROBBED BEFORE
AND MAYBE THIS PERSON MIGHT SERVE AS A GOOD PERSON ON THIS JURY, BUT
THERE MAY BE ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE JURY TO ALSO HAVE PEOPLE WHO
HAVE REAL LIVED EXPERIENCES WHO CAN BE ABLE TO SAY HOLD ON A SECOND,
TAKE A LOOK AT THIS BECAUSE THIS HAPPENED TO ME AND THIS WASN'T RIGHT
AND SO MAYBE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT AGAIN. AND
SO AGAIN, TO THE SPONSOR, I APPRECIATE YOU FOR TAKING THIS OPPORTUNITY TO
RESTORE MY CONFIDENCE IN A FAIR AND JUST JURY THAT HAS INTEGRITY THAT WE
KNOW THAT WHENEVER IT IS THAT THERE'S A PERSON WHO COMES UP BEFORE A
CRIMINAL COURT SCENARIO AGAIN, THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO LOOK AT OUR JURY THAT
HAS THE CULTURAL COMPETENCY THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE AN
ACCURATE JURIS PRUDENCE AND BE ABLE TO DELIBERATE IN FAIRNESS AND
HONESTY AND INTEGRITY. CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR BILL AND I ENCOURAGE
EACH AND EVERY ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN SUPPORT OF IT. THANK
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE
MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE IN THE NEGATIVE, WITH ALL DUE
RESPECT TO THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION. AND IF THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS
WHO'D LIKE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, THEY CAN CERTAINLY DO SO AT THEIR
DESKS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF
THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME THAT NEED TO BE
AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO VOTE AT THEIR SEATS.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. WALLACE.
MS. WALLACE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO
BRIEFLY EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
FOR THIS VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION. I ALSO WANT TO CORRECT A
COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I THINK WERE MISSTATED EARLIER. ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT WAS MISSTATED IS THAT AS JURORS YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BRING YOUR
PRIOR EXPERIENCES TO THE JURY ROOM. I WOULD SAY THAT I THINK THAT'S
WHOLLY INACCURATE. IN FACT, THE WHOLE CONCEPT BEHIND A JURY OF YOUR
PEERS IS THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE PEOPLE FROM ALL DIFFERENT WALKS OF
LIFE WITH ALL THEIR DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES, BACKGROUNDS COME INTO THE
JURY ROOM AND BRING THOSE EXPERIENCES TO THEIR DECISION-MAKING. IN
FACT, WE JUST HAD A DISCUSSION A COUPLE DAYS AGO, WHAT SEEMS LIKE
WEEKS AGO, ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT JUDGES
-- WHO ARE NOT LAWYERS BRING THEIR -- WHO BRING THEIR PERSONAL
EXPERIENCES AND THEIR BACKGROUND TO JUDGE PEOPLE IN CRIMINAL CASES. I
THINK IT'S NO DIFFERENT AS LONG -- BECAUSE PRIOR EXPERIENCES IS NOT THE
SAME AS BIAS. AS LONG AS YOU CAN BE FAIR AND IMPARTIAL, YOU CAN SERVE
ON THAT JURY. I WANT TO CLARIFY, BY THE WAY, THAT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT
THERE STILL COULDN'T BE A PREEMPTORY CHALLENGE, THERE STILL COULD BE A
CHALLENGE FOR CAUSE, BUT WE'RE JUST SAYING JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE TOUCHED
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD BE WHOLESALE
EXCLUDED FROM SERVING ON A JURY BECAUSE YOU'VE SERVED YOUR DEBT TO
SOCIETY. I ALSO WANT TO SAY AS SOMEBODY WHO SPENT 15 YEARS IN THE
FEDERAL COURT SYSTEM, I'VE SEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD CAR ACCIDENT
CASES, HAVE SERVED ON JURIES WHERE THERE WAS A CAR ACCIDENT ISSUE.
PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD DISCRIMINATION CASES AGAINST THEIR EMPLOYERS
SERVE ON CASES WHERE THERE WAS AN ISSUE ABOUT EMPLOYMENT
DISCRIMINATION. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAD AN EXPERIENCE IN THAT REGARD
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T BE FAIR AND IMPARTIAL. AND TO THAT POINT, ABOUT
A YEAR AGO AFTER WE LEFT THIS SESSION, I WAS SELECTED TO SERVE ON A
CRIMINAL JURY NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT I HAVE 15 YEARS OF
EXPERIENCE AND KNOW THE LAW PROBABLY AS WELL AS MANY OF THE PEOPLE
IN THE COURTROOM AND NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT THE JUDGE, THE
PROSECUTOR AND THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY IN THAT VERY CASE HAVE ALL DONATED
TO MY CAMPAIGN, BUT I WAS ELECTED BECAUSE ALL THREE OF THEM ASKED ME
WHETHER I CAN BE FAIR AND IMPARTIAL AND I SAID THAT I COULD. SO I WANT
TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR, THANK HIM FOR THIS EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT
LEGISLATION. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MS. WALLACE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. ANDERSON, ON YOUR VOTE.
MR. ANDERSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS
PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT MOVES US AWAY AND MOVES US
FORWARD FROM THE TOUGH ON CRIME ERA THAT GAVE US SO MANY FAILED
POLICIES THAT DID NOT MEET THE NEEDS OF THE MOMENT AND ADDRESS THE
SOLUTIONS AT THEIR CORE. THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF
THE SPEAKER PRO TEM (INAUDIBLE) AND ALL OF THE MEMBERS OF THIS
MAJORITY CONFERENCE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN HELPING TO REPEAL THE
TAP BAN TO ALLOW TAP ASSISTANCE FOR INDIVIDUALS, SUPPORTING LESS IS
MORE, HALT SOLITARY AND NOW WE'RE SAYING IN THIS MOMENT THAT WE
CAN HAVE JURIES THAT INCLUDE PEERS. INDIVIDUALS WITH DIVERSE
BACKGROUNDS AND EXPERIENCES TO GIVE OPINION ON CASES. I THINK ONE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THING THAT'S PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS LEGISLATION TODAY IS THAT
WE'RE OPENING THE DOOR FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO NO LONGER HAVE A LIFETIME
BAN, A LIFETIME CONVICTION. THIS BILL SAYS THAT THEY HAVE SERVED THEIR
TIME, THEY HAVE DONE THEIR DUTY IN THAT REGARD AND THEIR SERVICE TO THE
STATE IN REGARDS TO PAYING FOR THEIR CRIME AND NOW THEY'RE ELIGIBLE WITH
THE PASSAGE OF THIS LAW TO SERVE ON A JURY.
AS I CLOSE, MR. SPEAKER, I THINK ALSO ONE THING THAT'S
IMPORTANT NOW IS THAT THERE'S A FORMER RESIDENT OF 1600 PENNSYLVANIA
AVENUE THAT NOW WILL BE ABLE TO SERVE ON A JURY. I WITHDRAW MY
REQUEST AND PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. ANDERSON IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. CRUZ TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.
MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. A JURY OF NEW
YORKERS OF ALL WALKS OF LIFE TO JUDGE NEW YORKERS OF ALL WALKS OF LIFE.
THAT'S THE ONLY THING THIS BILL IS DOING. IT'S MAKING SURE THAT IF I STEP
INTO A COURTROOM AND I AM TO BE JUDGED, THOSE WHO ARE JUDGING ME
UNDERSTAND THE EXPERIENCES THAT I'VE LIVED. AND AS MUCH AS WE WANT TO
SAY THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN FORMALLY
INCARCERATED HAS LIVED THROUGH, WE DON'T. AND SO ENSURING THAT
SOMEONE WHO IS BEING JUDGED CAN HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE, CAN HAVE THAT
UNDERSTANDING BEFORE THEY MAKE A DECISION, I THINK IT'S KEY TO THE
FAIRNESS OF OUR SYSTEM, AND I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING
THIS BILL FORWARD, FOR HIS YEARS OF LOVE FOR OUR COMMUNITY, LOVE FOR
JUSTICE, FOR FIGHTING FOR FAIRNESS, FOR ENSURING THAT MANY OF US LEARN
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
EVERY DAY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO BE A LEGISLATOR WITH INTEGRITY, WITH LOVE,
WITH UNDERSTANDING, WITH PATIENCE AND MAN THIS MAN HAS A LOT OF
PATIENCE. I'M GOING TO MISS YOU. I HOPE WE ALL MAKE YOU PROUD. AND
I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MS. CRUZ IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I WANT TO THANK THE
SPONSOR OF THIS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT BILL THAT REMOVES A LIFETIME BAN TO
JURY DUTY FOR CONVICTED FELONS. THIS BILL ADDRESSES THE ABILITY OF
INDIVIDUALS WITH FELONY CONVICTIONS TO VACATE THEIR JUDGMENT IF THEIR
OFFENSES HAVE BEEN SUBSEQUENTLY DECRIMINALIZED. THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT
STEP FORWARD IN RECOGNIZING AND CONNECTING THE WRONGS OF PAST LEGAL
PRACTICES. ONE CRITICAL ASPECT AS YOU HAVE HEARD TODAY IS THE IMPACT ON
JURY SERVICE. CURRENTLY MANY INDIVIDUALS WITH FELONY CONVICTIONS ARE
BANNED AND BARRED FROM SERVING ON JURIES EVEN IF THEIR OFFENSES ARE NO
LONGER CONSIDERED CRIMES. THIS EXCLUSION NOT ONLY DISENFRANCHISES A
SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF OUR POPULATION, BUT ALSO UNDERMINES THE DIVERSITY
AND REPRESENTATIVENESS OF OUR JURIES. A FAIR AND IMPARTIAL JURY IS A
CORNERSTONE OF OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM, AND EXCLUDING INDIVIDUALS WHO
HAVE PAID THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY FROM PARTICIPATING UNDERMINES THIS
PRINCIPLE. JUSTICE SONIA SOTOMAYOR HAS SAID, THE DYNAMICS OF THE JURY
ROOM ALWAYS FASCINATE ME. JURY DUTY IS A PRIVILEGE. IT IS ONE OF THE
BEST ASPECTS OF OUR DEMOCRACY. IT'S A DIRECT PARTICIPATION IN THE PROCESS
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
OF JUSTICE. IT'S LIKE NO OTHER ROLE IN OUR LEGAL SYSTEM. AND BY RESTORING
CIVIL RIGHTS OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WILL MAKE OUR CIVIC IDENTITY THE CORE OF
WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRY MORE WHOLE. EVERYONE DESERVES THE
OPPORTUNITY TO FULLY REINTEGRATE INTO SOCIETY AND CONTRIBUTE OUR
COMMUNITY INCLUDING THROUGH JURY SERVICE. AS A RECENT LAW SCHOOL
GRADUATE, I COMMEND THE SPONSOR, MR. AUBRY, FOR DEDICATING HIS
LEGISLATIVE YEARS AND CAREER IN FIGHTING FOR THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE
PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE FORMALLY INCARCERATED AND FOR OUR
OVERALL CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. WE THANK YOU, MR. AUBRY. WE LOVE
YOU AND WE WILL MISS YOU. GOD BLESS. I WILL BE VOTING IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MS. BICHOTTE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. MEEKS.
MR. MEEKS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR AN
OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THIS BILL. I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON
THIS BILL. IT'S TRULY REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE. TRULY
REPRESENTATION OF WHAT RESTORATIVE JUSTICE LOOKS LIKE. I JUST WANT TO SAY
THANK YOU PRO TEM AUBRY FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP IN THE SPACE AND
CONTINUE TO INSPIRE US ALL IN THIS WORK THAT WE DO. AND I COMMEND
THOSE OF YOU AND URGE EACH AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL HERE TO VOTE ON THIS
LEGISLATION, TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION FOR IT'S REALLY
SPEAKING ABOUT A JURY OF ONE'S PEERS. AND THIS SHOULD NOT BE A LIFE
SENTENCE BECAUSE OF A PERSON'S PAST OR A PERSON'S ONE MISTAKE. THEY
SHOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE OPPORTUNITIES AS CITIZENS AND ONE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
OF THOSE OPPORTUNITIES SHOULD BE THE RIGHT AND THE POWER TO PARTICIPATE
AS A JUROR IN A TRIAL PROCEEDING. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I VOTE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. MEEKS IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. DILAN, ON YOUR VOTE.
MR. DILAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JUST WANT
TO SAY VERY BRIEFLY THAT I'M -- I'M PROUD OF THE -- THE SPONSOR AND HIS
WORK HERE BECAUSE I THINK AS A SOCIETY WE STILL WANT TO PUNISH PEOPLE
BEYOND THE DEBT THAT THEY OWE TO THIS STATE AND TO SOCIETY. THIS IS
ANOTHER STEP INTO FURTHER FULL REINTEGRATION INTO SOCIETY AND IT'S
SOMETHING THAT THESE FOLKS HAVE WORKED ON TO IMPROVE THEIR LIVES POST-
FELONY OR POST-INCARCERATION. YOU KNOW, FELONS LOOK LIKE EVERYONE
HERE. THERE'S NO CONSTANT DESCRIPTION OF WHAT A FELON LOOKS LIKE. THEY
COME FROM ALL PARTS OF THE STATE, THEY COME FROM ALL RACES, THEY COME
FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE. BUT WHEN YOU'VE PAID YOUR DEBT TO SOCIETY, THE
RESTORATIVE MEASURES, THAT PARTICIPATION IN CIVICS SOCIETY, WERE NOT
ALLOWED TO FOLKS WITHOUT A CAREER'S WORTH OF LEGISLATION THAT THE
SPONSOR HAS PASSED. I WANT TO SAY TO THE SPONSOR THAT YOU WERE BEFORE
YOUR TIME. YOU WERE NEEDED DURING THAT TIME, AND I'M PROUD OF YOUR
LIFE'S WORK. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR BEING A MENTOR TO ME AND A
MENTOR TO MANY OF US IN THE ASSEMBLY. BUT REALLY THE STUFF THAT YOU
DID FOR EVERY DAY NEW YORKERS JUST TRYING TO PUT THEIR LIVES BACK
TOGETHER AND JUST MADE THE PROCESS OF -- OF DOING THAT A LOT EASIER BY
MAKING THE SYSTEM MORE FAIR. SO I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THAT AND, MR.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SPEAKER, WITH THAT I WILL VOTE YES ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. DILAN IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. GOODELL, ON YOUR VOTE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. I THINK IT'S
REASONABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE RELUCTANCE OF SOME PEOPLE TO THINK THAT A
PERSON WHO SPENT YEARS BEHIND BARS MIGHT NOT HARBOR SOME ILL FEELINGS
AGAINST THE PROSECUTION AND I THINK THAT'S THE GENESIS OF THIS CONCERN.
AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU SPENT A LOT OF TIME OF YOUR LIFE BEHIND
BARS AS A RESULT OF A PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE, THE PROSECUTION YOU
MIGHT LOGICALLY AND UNDERSTANDABLY BE LESS INCLINED TO AGREE WITH
THEM, WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE THE LIFETIME BAN. BUT I WOULD SUPPORT MY
COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE TO LIFT THE LIFETIME BAN AS IT RELATES TO CIVIL CASES
WHERE THAT'S NOT A FACTOR AT ALL. AND SO I HOPE IN THE FUTURE WE SEE
LIFTING THE LIFETIME BAN AS IT RELATES TO CIVIL CASES AND STILL RECOGNIZING
THAT THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED MIGHT NOT BE HAPPY WITH THE
PROSECUTION. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. GOODELL IN THE
NEGATIVE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I'VE ALWAYS WANTED
TO BE ON A JURY. AS A COUNTY LEGISLATOR IT WASN'T POSSIBLE BECAUSE
ELECTED OFFICIALS WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SERVE ON JURIES. BY THE TIME I
REACHED THE STATE ASSEMBLY, YOU GUYS HAD CHANGED THE LAW HERE AND
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SO I WAS ALLOWED TO SERVE AND I WENT PROUDLY INTO THAT COURTROOM TO
TAKE MY OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE AND RAN RIGHT INTO A JUDGE THAT I KNEW
VERY WELL. UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME, IT WAS AROUND THE END OF DECEMBER
AND THAT JUDGE KNEW THAT I WAS ABOUT TO BE IN ALBANY MOST OF THE TIME.
SO SHE WAS LIKE NO, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SERVE, AND I'M OKAY
WITH THAT BECAUSE THAT'S REASONABLE. I WOULD HAVE TO NOT COME TO
ALBANY IN ORDER TO SERVE ON THAT JURY. HAD IT BEEN IN SEPTEMBER, SHE
PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT, AND SO I UNDERSTAND WHEN THERE ARE
REASONS WHY EITHER THE JUDGE OR THE ATTORNEYS IN THE CASE DON'T WANT
SOMEONE TO SERVE. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS
WHEN YOU HAVE SERVED YOUR TIME, ALL OF YOUR TIME, AND YOU STILL ARE
BEING DENIED THE RIGHTS OF CITIZENS, THERE'S A CONFLICT IN THAT AMERICAN
DREAM. THAT CAN'T BE REAL IF IT'S STILL TRUE THAT YOU CANNOT EVEN SERVE ON
A JURY IT'S NOT REAL. SO THANK YOU, MR. AUBRY, FOR TRYING TO MAKE IT REAL.
TRYING TO MAKE THE AMERICAN DREAM REAL FOR ALL PEOPLE. AND I'LL TELL
YOU THE HISTORY WILL WRITE YOU DOWN AS A HERO, BECAUSE I'VE WATCHED
YOU IN THIS BODY SERVE FOR PEOPLE THAT YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW. THEIR
LIVES ARE DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF YOU. THANK YOU. I VOTE YES.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. ZACCARO, ON YOUR VOTE.
MR. ZACCARO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
(AUDIO CUT OUT)
MR. AUBRY: IF YOU DON'T MIND. I JUST WANTED TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SHARE ONE STORY WITH YOU, A QUICK STORY THAT SUBMITTED MY
UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THIS PARTICULAR PROCESS WAS GOOD. WE GET A JURY
POOL BY THOSE WHO CAN VOTE. WE HAVE GIVEN THOSE WHO WERE PRIVATELY
CONVICTED THE RIGHT TO VOTE, SO THEY'RE NOW IN OUR JURY POOL AND IF
THEY -- BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO FILL OUT A FORM AND IN THAT FORM THEY HAVE
TO CHECK WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE TO SERVE. WHAT'S HAPPENING TO
SOME OF OUR FOLKS IS THEY ARE BEING QUESTIONED AS TO WHY THEY ARE
MARKING UN-INELIGIBLE, AND SO THEY'RE REQUIRED TO GO BACK AND GET PROOF
THAT THEY WERE CONVICTED IN ORDER NOT TO SERVE. JUSTICE COMES IN A LOT
OF WAYS. JUSTICE IS REQUIRED IN THE SOCIETY I LIVE. WE HAVE TO BE JUST TO
ALL. AND IF SOMEONE CHOOSES TO DECIDE THAT THEY NEED TO BE A PART OF
THIS PROCESS AND WE WANT THEM TO BE A PART OF THIS PROCESS, THEN WE
HAVE TO OPEN UP THE DOOR AND ALLOW THEM TO BE THAT. AND IF THEY HAVE
PROBLEMS LIKE ANY OTHER PERSON WHO HAS A PROBLEM ON A JURY BECAUSE
OF CONFLICT OR ANY OF THOSE THINGS, THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO FIGURE THAT OUT
AND TO PROVIDE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM NOT TO BE ON A JURY. BUT WE
CAN'T DENY THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE THAT SERVICE. I VOTE YES.
(APPLAUSE)
I APOLOGIZE. I TOLD MY COLLEAGUES THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE
HOLDING UP TALKING ALL THE TIME. THAT WE SHOULD VOTE AND GET OUT OF
HERE BUT -- SO I DIDN'T KEEP MY PROMISE.
(LAUGHTER)
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. AUBRY IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PAGE 6, RULES REPORT
NO. 194, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09478-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 194, MCMAHON, LAVINE, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
STATE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE ACT AND THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND
RULES, IN RELATION TO USE OF AN AFFIRMATION OF TRUTH OF STATEMENT IN AN
ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEEDING; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH
LAW RELATING TO MAKING A TECHNICAL CORRECTION THERETO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
MCMAHON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MS.
WALSH.
MS. WALSH: OKAY, SO I'M GONNA TRY TO MAKE THIS
FAIRLY QUICK, I DON'T SEE A NEED FOR A REALLY EXTENSIVE DEBATE. LAST YEAR
IN 2023 - WHICH SEEMS LIKE A LONG TIME AGO NOW, DOESN'T IT - WE PASSED
A BILL THAT AMENDED THE CPLR, THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND RULES,
SECTION 2106, TO ALLOW A STATEMENT BY ANY PERSON WHEREVER MADE,
SUBSCRIBED AND AFFIRMED BY THAT PERSON TO BE TRUE UNDER THE PENALTIES
OF PERJURY, TO BE USED IN ANY NEW YORK COURT ACTION IN LIEU OF AND WITH
99
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE SAME FORCE AND EFFECT AS AN AFFIDAVIT. WHAT THIS BILL -- THIS BILL
DOES TWO THINGS: THIS BILL, FIRST OF ALL, EXPANDS WHAT WE -- WHAT WAS
PASSED LAST YEAR TO APPLY TO ALL ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS UNDER THE
SAPA, THE STATE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE ACT, AND THEN THE SECOND
THING IT DOES IS IT GOES AND IT REPEALS EXISTING LANGUAGE WHICH HAD
PREVIOUSLY SAID THAT ATTORNEYS AND PHYSICIANS - OR MEDICAL
PROFESSIONALS, I SHOULD SAY - COULD USE THE AFFIRMATION BECAUSE NOW
UNDER THE LAW IT WILL BE ANYBODY. IT WOULDN'T BE JUST AN ATTORNEY OR A
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL THAT COULD USE AN AFFIRMATION, ANYBODY COULD.
SO FOR THE -- FOR THE NON-LAWYERS IN THE CROWD, YOU'RE
PROBABLY WONDERING, WHY DO I CARE ABOUT ANY OF THIS, BUT THERE IS A
DIFFERENCE. SO, AN AFFIRMATION, FOR EXAMPLE, IF -- IF I, AS AN ATTORNEY,
DID AN AFFIRMATION I WOULD SAY THAT I'M AN ATTORNEY DULY ADMITTED TO
PRACTICE BEFORE THE COURTS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AND THAT I AFFIRM
THE FOLLOWING UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY. A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
WOULD MAKE SOMETHING SIMILAR, JUST RECITING THAT THEY'RE DULY ADMITTED
TO PRACTICE MEDICINE OR WHATEVER THEIR MEDICAL CREDENTIAL WAS THAT WAS
ALLOWING THEM TO MAKE THE AFFIRMATION. THE REASON WHY THE
AFFIRMATION WAS ALLOWED WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE TO GO, I AS AN ATTORNEY
OR A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL DIDN'T HAVE TO GO OUT AND GET A NOTARY TO
ACTUALLY NOTARIZE OUR STATEMENT IS BECAUSE WE'RE LICENSED. SO IF WE
PERJURE OURSELVES, OUR LICENSE IS HANGING IN THE BALANCE. SO WE -- WE
KNOW THAT WE -- WELL, WE KNOW THAT WE SHOULD BE TRUTHFUL ANYWAY, BUT
WE HAD THAT SPECIAL ADDITIONAL RISK OR INCENTIVE TO BE TRUTHFUL IN OUR
STATEMENTS THAT WE WERE AFFIRMING BECAUSE WE HAD A LICENSE, A
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PROFESSIONAL LICENSE RIDING ON IT. AN AFFIDAVIT, BY CONTRAST, SAYS AN
AFFIANT FIRST BEING DULY SWORN DEPOSES AND SAYS, AND THEN, IT'S SWORN TO
ME BEFORE... SO THE PERSON MAKES A STATEMENT AND THEN THEY HAVE TO GO
BEFORE A NOTARY, VERIFY WHO THEY ARE, SWEAR THAT THE -- THE INFORMATION
THAT THEY'RE GIVING IN THE AFFIDAVIT IS TRUE. AND THE IDEA, I THINK, OF
GOING IN FRONT OF THE NOTARY, ASIDE FROM THE PART ABOUT VERIFYING WHO
THEY WERE, MAKING SURE THAT THEY WERE REALLY THE PERSON THAT THEY SAID
THAT THEY WERE, WAS TO, I THINK, CREATE KIND OF - I DON'T KNOW HOW I
WANT TO PUT THIS - KIND OF MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT YOU'RE
MAKING, THIS AFFIDAVIT, NEEDED TO BE TRUTHFUL. YOU DIDN'T HAVE A LICENSE
OR ANYTHING THAT WAS GONNA MAYBE TRIP YOU UP IF YOU DIDN'T SAY
SOMETHING THAT WAS TRUTHFUL. BUT IT WAS TO -- IT WAS TO KIND OF
UNDERLINE FOR YOU, AS THE AFFIANT, THAT YOU NEEDED TO BE TRUTHFUL. SO IT
KIND OF GAVE AN EXTRA, NOT A GUARANTEE, BUT AN EXTRA LEVEL OF AWARENESS
OF WHAT YOU WERE -- WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. SO THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL
DOES.
NOW, LAST YEAR FOR THE BILL THAT -- THAT I WAS TALKING
ABOUT THAT ELIMINATED THE USE OF THE AFFIDAVIT IN NEW YORK COURT
PROCEEDINGS, THERE WERE 48 NO VOTES, BASICALLY -- BASICALLY IT FELL -- I
THINK IT FELL ALONG PARTY LINES. SO ON THIS BILL, WHICH EXPANDS IT TO
ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEEDINGS, IF YOU WERE AGAINST IT LAST YEAR YOU'RE
PROBABLY NOT GONNA LIKE IT TO BE EXTENDED TO COVER EVEN MORE COURT
ACTIONS. SO FOR THAT REASON, I WILL CONTINUE TO BE IN THE NEGATIVE, AND I
THINK THAT IT MIGHT NOT SEEM TO NON-LAWYERS TO BE VERY IMPORTANT, BUT IT
IS A DIFFERENCE. AND I DO THINK THAT IT REALLY COULD BE ARGUED THAT THIS
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PROVISION SHOULD BE LIMITED TO ATTORNEYS AND MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS
BECAUSE PRO SE, OR UNREPRESENTED LITIGANTS, MAY PRESENT VERACITY ISSUES,
TRUTHFULNESS ISSUES. SO I -- I DO THINK THAT THE AFFIRMATION SHOULD BE
SPECIAL, THIS MAKES IT SO EVERYBODY CAN DO ONE.
SO FOR THESE REASONS I'M GONNA VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE,
AND I THINK PROBABLY WE'LL HAVE A SIMILAR VOTE TO LAST YEAR; THAT WOULD
BE MY PREDICTION, WE'LL SEE HOW IT -- WE'LL SEE HOW IT GOES. BUT I WILL
BE IN THE NEGATIVE, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED BY MY
COLLEAGUE. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT SHOULD CERTAINLY VOTE YES HERE.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE ASSEMBLY MAJORITY IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE
OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN
EXCEPTION, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO VOTE AT THEIR SEATS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. MCMAHON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. MCMAHON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. IT'S BEEN SHOWN THAT THE NEW YORK STATE NOTARY
REQUIREMENTS ARE UNDULY BURDENSOME AND POSE A BARRIER TO ACCESS TO
OUR LEGAL SYSTEM FOR MANY GROUPS, INCLUDING LOW-INCOME PEOPLE, THE
ELDERLY, THE DISABLED, PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN RURAL AREAS, PERHAPS, WHO
MIGHT FIND IT DIFFICULT TO FIND A NOTARY. THIS BILL CLARIFIES THAT
AFFIRMATIONS, WHICH ARE MADE UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY, ARE ADMISSIBLE
IN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEEDINGS, MAKING IT POSSIBLE FOR ALL PEOPLE TO
BETTER ACCESS OUR LEGAL SYSTEM. AND I WOULD SIMPLY NOTE ALSO THAT THIS
LEGISLATION IS BASED ON THE FEDERAL RULE THAT DOES ALLOW -- THAT HAS
ELIMINATED THE NEED FOR NOTARIZATION IN COURT PROCEEDINGS FOR MANY
DECADES.
SO FOR THAT REASON, I'M VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. MCMAHON IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF WE
WOULD NOW BRING OUR ATTENTION TO RULES REPORT NO. 472 BY MS.
BICHOTTE HERMELYN; FOLLOWED BY RULES REPORT NO. 416 BY MS. GLICK;
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AND THEN RULES REPORT NO. 458 BY MR. HEVESI. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MA'AM.
PAGE 14, RULES REPORT NO. 472, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S09785, RULES REPORT NO.
472, SENATOR CLEARE (COMMITTEE ON RULES- BICHOTTE HERMELYN,
A10411). AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO
THE APPROPRIATE TAX YEAR FOR ASSESSING INCOME REQUIREMENTS FOR CERTAIN
REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTIONS IN A CITY WITH A POPULATION OF ONE MILLION
OR MORE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 416, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10140, RULES REPORT
NO. 416, COMMITTEE ON RULES (GLICK, BURDICK, WEPRIN, SIMON). AN
ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO
PROHIBITING THE TAKING OF HORSESHOE CRABS FOR COMMERCIAL AND
BIOMEDICAL PURPOSES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, AN
EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE BILL DOES
TWO THINGS: IT IS AN EXTENDER 'TIL DECEMBER 31ST OF 2026 FOR THE TAKING
OF CRABS -- THIS IS THE -- ONE OF THE EXTENDERS THAT PROVIDES
AUTHORIZATION TO DEC TO -- TO PROVIDE PERMITS. THE OTHER THING IT DOES
IS THAT IT EXCLUDES FROM THAT PERMITTING PROCESS THE ABILITY TO TAKE
HORSESHOE CRABS. AND THE REASON FOR EITHER COMMERCIAL OR BIOMEDICAL
PURPOSES, ALTHOUGH IT DOES LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN FOR EDUCATIONAL AND
SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH POSSIBILITIES. AND THE REASON IS THAT THERE HAS BEEN
A PRECIPITOUS DROP IN THE POPULATION OF HORSESHOE CRABS THAT MAKE
THEM NOW NEAR THREATENED, AND THE ANCILLARY IMPACT ON OTHER SPECIES,
FISH AND MIGRATORY BIRDS THAT ARE DEPENDENT UPON HORSESHOE CRAB EGGS
TO SURVIVE. SO THERE ARE OTHER SPECIES THAT ARE EITHER NEAR THREATENED OR
ENDANGERED AS A RESULT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. JENSEN.
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.
WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS IN A NON-CRABBY --
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I LIKE THE CRABBY YOU, SO IT'S OKAY.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. JENSEN: WELL, CRABBY FOR ME -- IT'S ABOUT
CRABS, BUT I WON'T BE CRABBY WHILE I'M ASKING SUCH QUESTIONS.
MS. GLICK: AND -- AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
MADAM CHAIR, I APPRECIATE IT. SO JUST TO ENSURE CLARITY, SO THIS WOULD
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BE AN EXTENSION ON SET LIMITS FOR ALL CRABS.
MS. GLICK: YES.
MR. JENSEN: WITH A NEW ADDITION THAT PROHIBITS THE
TAKING FOR BAITING PURPOSES AND BIOMEDICAL PURPOSES --
MS. GLICK: YEAH.
MR. JENSEN: -- OF HORSESHOE CRABS EXCLUSIVELY.
MS. GLICK: YES.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. SO I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE
BIOMEDICAL USES OF THE BLUE -- OF THE HORSESHOE CRAB, SPECIFICALLY THEIR
BLOOD. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE HORSESHOE CRAB WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS
A MAGNIFICENT CREATURE THAT IS AMAZING, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT
THE USES OF THEIR BLOOD AND THE TAKING OF THEM FOR THEIR BLOOD IS DONE IN
A MANNER IN WHICH DOES NOT KILL THE CRAB ITSELF, THAT THE BLOOD IS ONLY
TAKING AROUND A THIRD, 30 PERCENT, AND THEN THEY ARE PLACED BACK INTO
THE OCEAN.
MS. GLICK: WELL, LET ME JUST SAY TWO THINGS: ONE,
WE'VE LOOKED BACK, THERE IS NO PERMIT REQUEST ON FILE THIS YEAR OR FOR
THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS FOR THIS PURPOSE, SO WE DON'T BELIEVE WE ARE IN
ANY WAY INTERFERING WITH THAT ASPECT. I WILL ALSO SAY THAT IT IS VERY
PROBLEMATIC WHEN YOU DRAIN A THIRD OF THE BLOOD OF AN ANIMAL AND THEN
PUT IT BACK INTO THE WILD AND THINK THAT IT'S JUST FINE, THAT'S -- THAT IS
USUALLY -- THEY SAY THAT, BUT THEY DON'T FOLLOW UP TO SEE WHAT THE
SURVIVAL RATE OF THOSE THAT THEY HAVE RETURNED TO THE WILD, AND THAT IS
CLEARLY NOT HERE IN NEW YORK BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T DONE IT FOR A VERY
LONG TIME. BUT WHERE THEY HAVE DONE IT, THERE IS -- THERE WAS, FOR A
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LONG TIME, NO -- IT IS USED. PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND, LIKE, WHY ARE
THEY TAKING THEIR BLOOD, IT IS USED BECAUSE THERE IS AN ELEMENT IN THEIR
BLOOD WHICH IS REFERRED TO AS LAL. I'M SURE IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED
CHEMICAL OR BIOLOGICAL NAME, BUT IT'S REFERRED TO AS LAL, AND IT IS USED
FOR ENDOTOXIN TESTING BECAUSE IT -- IT'S A RE-AGENT AND IT ACTS WITH --
REACTS WITH CERTAIN BACTERIA. AND SO FOR TESTING OF VACCINES AND
INJECTABLE MEDICINES, IT'S -- IT'S IMPORTANT. HOWEVER, THERE IS A STUDY
THAT DEMONSTRATES THAT THERE IS A SYNTHETIC THAT ELI LILLY HAS BEEN USING
FOR SOME NUMBER OF YEARS NOW, RFC - AGAIN, I'M SURE THAT STANDS FOR
SOMETHING LONG AND COMPLICATED - AND IT IS USED -- LILLY HAS CONVERTED
-- WE BEGAN TO IMPLEMENT RFC TESTING IN 2016, SO IT'S EIGHT YEARS, THEY
NOW USE IT FOR ALL OF THEIR INJECTABLE MANUFACTURING FACILITIES AND FOR ALL
OUR NEW INJECTABLE MEDICINES. SO THEIR TESTING IS NOW TOTALLY USED --
USES THIS SYNTHETIC. SO WE BELIEVE THAT WE ARE NOT IN ANY WAY
INTERFERING WITH THE USES.
MR. JENSEN: AND -- AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT, SO
-- BUT I THINK TO THE PART ABOUT THE HARMFUL NATURE OF HOW THEY'RE BEING
TAKEN FOR THE BLOODLETTING, WHICH IS A SENTENCE I NEVER THOUGHT I'D SAY
IN ELECTED OFFICE BECAUSE IT'S NOT 1472 IN ENGLAND, BUT FOR THE
BLOODLETTING OF THESE CRABS, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE ATLANTIC
STATES MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION HAS A BEST PRACTICES GUIDE TO
ENSURE FOR THE FIVE LAL PRODUCERS THAT ARE ON THE EAST COAST, THAT THEY
CAN RETRIEVE THIS BLOOD WITHOUT ANY UNDO HARM AND THE CONTINUED
SURVIVAL OF THE CRAB ONCE THEY'RE REINTRODUCED TO THE OCEAN AND THEIR
NATURAL HABITAT. ADDITIONALLY, WITH ELI LILLY AND OTHER SYNTHETICS THAT
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ARE BEING USED, THOSE SYNTHETICS ARE NOT YET -- HAVE NOT YET RECEIVED
WIDESPREAD FDA OR FEDERAL APPROVAL FOR USAGE. THEY HAVE TO BE
APPROVED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS AND CANNOT BE USED UBIQUITOUSLY,
LIKE THE BLOOD OF THE HORSESHOE CRAB. AND THAT CASE-BY-CASE APPROVAL
IS A COSTLY AND LENGTHY PROCESS. SO TO YOUR POINT ABOUT HOW THEIR
BLOOD IS CURRENTLY BEING USED ON VACCINES, ONE OF THE VACCINES THAT WAS
USED FOR HEAVILY AND VERY QUICKLY WAS THE COVID-19 VACCINES. AND
SO IF WE WOULD HAVE NOT HAD THE BLOOD OF THE HORSESHOE CRAB, THE
COVID-19 VACCINES MAY NOT HAVE MADE IT TO MARKET QUITE AS SOON AS
THEY DID. SO DO YOU HAVE A CONCERN THAT THE BIOMEDICAL INFRASTRUCTURE
THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY COULD BE HARMED WITH THIS
LEGISLATION?
MS. GLICK: I DON'T. I WOULD JUST SAY TO YOU THAT IF
THEY HAVE BEST PRACTICES, THEY HAVEN'T WORKED WELL BECAUSE THE SPECIES
IS NOW NEAR THREATENED, SO...
MR. JENSEN: WELL, BUT HOW MUCH IS THAT FROM THE
BAITING PROHIBITIONS? AND I THINK IF THIS LEGISLATION WAS JUST SAYING
THAT WE'RE FORBIDDING THE BAITING OF THE HORSESHOE CRAB, BECAUSE IF
YOU'RE USING THE ANIMAL TO BAIT OTHER ANIMALS, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY GOING TO
BE DETRIMENTAL. BUT FOR THE -- AND WE'RE ALREADY ALLOWING THEM TO BE
TAKEN WITH THE EXCEPTION FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES, CERTAINLY THERE WOULD
BE RESEARCH PURPOSES THAT ARE ATTACHED WITH THE BIOMEDICAL
DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. SO I GUESS WE'VE ALREADY HAVING -- WE HAVE A
CARVEOUT FOR ONE PURPOSE IN THE TAKING OF THIS -- OF THIS AMAZING
ANIMAL, BUT WHY WOULD WE NOT EXTEND THAT TO SOMETHING THAT IS
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PREVENTING ENDOTOXINS FROM BEING POTENTIALLY FATAL TO HUMANS THROUGH
VACCINES AND OTHER MEDICINES?
MS. GLICK: WELL, THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE NOT ISSUED
ANY PERMITS OR REQUEST FOR PERMITS THIS YEAR, LAST YEAR, THE YEAR BEFORE
THAT OR THE YEAR BEFORE THAT OR THE YEAR BEFORE THAT OR THE YEAR BEFORE
THAT OR THE YEAR BEFORE THAT SAYS TO ME THAT WE ARE IN NO WAY
ENDANGERING THE BIOMEDICAL FIELD IN NEW YORK STATE BECAUSE THEY
HAVE NOT BEEN REQUESTING PERMITS UNLESS THEY ARE ENGAGED IN ILLEGAL
PROCESSES BY WHICH THEY ARE TAKING THESE INCREDIBLE LIVING FOSSILS. I
ASSUME THAT THEY ARE ACTING WITHIN THE LAW, AND SO THEY HAVE NOT IN ANY
WAY ATTEMPTED TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT FOR YEARS, AND SO I DON'T THINK THIS
IS IN ANY WAY ENDANGERING THE BIOMEDICAL FIELD.
MR. JENSEN: SO COULD THERE BE, BECAUSE THERE'S NO
-- THERE'S BEEN NO -- TO YOUR POINT, THERE'S BEEN NO PERMITS ON FILE FOR
THE LAST HANDFUL OF YEARS. COULD IT BE BECAUSE OF THE MISUNDERSTOOD
NATURE OF THE HORSESHOE CRAB? BECAUSE IN ITS SCIENTIFIC BACKING, THEY'RE
ACTUALLY MORE CLOSELY RELATED TO SPIDERS THAN THEY ARE OTHER CRABS AND
LOBSTERS. SO ARE THEY EVEN -- IS IT EVEN APPROPRIATE TO LUMP THEM IN
WITH OTHER CRAB SPECIES WHEN THEY'RE MORE CLOSELY RELATED TO OTHER
TYPES OF ARACHNIDS, IF YOU WILL?
MS. GLICK: I -- I REFRAINED FROM LAUGHING; NO.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY.
MS. GLICK: I THINK ANYBODY THAT'S LOOKING FOR A
HORSESHOE CRAB CAN DISCERN THAT -- ITS DIFFERENCE FROM A SPIDER, BUT
THAT'S JUST ME.
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MR. JENSEN: WELL, I WOULD -- I WOULD AGREE. I -- I
THINK I COULD -- YEAH. BUT I CAN ALSO TELL A HORSESHOE CRAB FROM A
LOBSTER, TOO, SO THAT'S --
MS. GLICK: YES, WELL GOOD; GOOD --
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU.
MS. GLICK: -- BECAUSE YOU WOULD NOT WANT TO EAT
THE HORSESHOE CRAB.
MR. JENSEN: NO, I WOULD NOT. THEY -- THEY DO NOT
LOOK DELECTABLE AT ALL. SO I GUESS WITH THE PERMITTING PROCESS FOR THE
TAKING OF CRABS IN GENERAL, WOULD YOU HAVE TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT IF
YOU'RE USING THEM FOR MEDICAL USES, IF YOU'RE DOING ANY SORT OF
COMMERCIAL OPERATION? OR BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT USING THEM FOR RESALE
AND YOU'RE PUTTING THEM BACK INTO THE OCEAN, WOULD YOU HAVE TO GET A
PERMIT?
MS. GLICK: YOU WOULD -- YOU WOULD ABSOLUTELY
HAVE TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT FOR THE TAKING, THAT IS WHAT IS REQUIRED. IT
DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU DO WITH THE CREATURE AFTERWARDS, IT IS THE -- THE
PERMIT IS FOR THE TAKING. AND, YES, YOU WOULD HAVE TO IF YOU ARE
OPERATING WITHIN THE LAW, AND I ASSUME THAT ALL OF THESE FINE
INSTITUTIONS ARE DOING THAT, OR WOULD DO THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A
PERMIT.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.
GLICK, FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
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MR. JENSEN: I JUST -- ONCE AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK
THE -- THE CHAIRWOMAN FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. AND CERTAINLY FOR
SPECIES THAT ARE IN VULNERABLE OR WORSE CONDITIONS, CERTAINLY WANT -- WE
WANT TO ENSURE THE ONGOING PROTECTION, AS WELL AS THE IMPACT THAT THEY
HAVE ON OTHER ASPECTS OF THE ANIMAL KINGDOM. HOWEVER, I DO HAVE
SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE -- THE BROADNESS OF THE INCREASED EXPANSION
IN THE STATUTE THAT WOULD PROHIBIT THE TAKING OF THE HORSESHOE CRAB FOR
BIOMEDICAL, PHARMACEUTICAL USES. CERTAINLY THESE ARE AMAZING
ANIMALS. I'VE LEARNED A LOT TODAY AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT THEY ARE
TREMENDOUSLY COOL; HOWEVER, PART OF THEIR COOLNESS IS IN THEIR -- THEIR
COPPER-BASED BLOOD AND THE INTERESTING WAY IT HAS IN DETERMINING
ENDOTOXINS TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF VERY IMPORTANT MEDICAL USES.
AND SO I THINK WHEN THERE IS A CONCERTED EFFORT FROM
ADVOCACY GROUPS AND FEDERAL OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE THAT THESE ANIMALS
CAN BE TAKEN, HAVE THEIR BLOOD USED FOR THIS VERY IMPORTANT PURPOSE,
PLACED BACK INTO OUR OCEANS TO CONTINUE TO SURVIVE AND THRIVE, THUS FOR
THEIR OWN LONGEVITY AND ALL THE OTHER ANIMALS THAT RELY ON THEM,
ESPECIALLY MIGRATORY BIRDS THAT -- THAT NEED THE EGGS OF THE HORSESHOE
CRAB FOR THEIR MIGRATORY JOURNEY. I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT
ENSURING GREATER PROTECTION OF THEM AND ENSURING THEY CAN GET BACK IN
TO WHERE THEY ARE, BUT NOT LIMITING THE ABILITY TO ADVANCE MEDICAL
RESEARCH TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THE BIOMEDICAL INDUSTRY AND THE
PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY AND ENSURING THAT THE NEXT GENERATION OF
MEDICINES THAT COULD BE LIFESAVING ARE UNENCUMBERED. CERTAINLY,
SYNTHETICS ARE ON THE RISE, BUT UNTIL THERE IS WIDESPREAD FEDERAL FDA
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APPROVAL ON THOSE, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE A FEASIBLE UTILIZATION AS WELL AS
THE BLOOD OF THE HORSESHOE CRAB.
SO CERTAINLY I WOULD -- I AM SUPPORTIVE OF MOST OF THIS
BILL, BUT WOULD LOVE TO SEE A CHANGE ALLOWING FOR AN EXEMPTION FOR THE
BIOMEDICAL USES OF THE -- OF THE CRAB ITSELF. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MS. GIGLIO.
MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. GLICK: CERTAINLY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK YIELDS.
MS. GIGLIO: GREAT. SO, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE
ATLANTIC STATES MARINE FISHERY [SIC] COMMISSION AND THE LAW THAT THEY
CREATED 15 YEARS AGO?
MS. GLICK: YES.
MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO WHERE DO COMMERCIAL
FISHERMEN HAVE TO GET THEIR BAIT?
MS. GLICK: WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY'RE
FISHING.
MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO IF THEY'RE FISHING CONCH OR
(INAUDIBLE) FISH AND THEY'RE FISHING THE EEL, WHERE DO THEY HAVE TO GET
THEIR BAIT? DO THEY HAVE TO GET IT LOCALLY? DO THEY HAVE TO GET IT --
MS. GLICK: WELL, ONE WOULD PRESUME THAT PEOPLE
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WHO ARE ENGAGED IN FISHING DO NOT TRAVEL GREAT DISTANCES IN ORDER TO
OBTAIN THEIR BAIT.
MS. GIGLIO: BUT THEY'LL HAVE TO IF THIS BILL IS PASSED.
SO MY NEXT QUESTION FOR YOU IS, HAS THE HORSESHOE
CRAB POPULATION DECLINED OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS SINCE THE NEW YORK --
OR THE ATLANTIC STATES MARINE FISHERY [SIC] COMMISSION CAME INTO
PLAY?
MS. GLICK: YES.
MS. GIGLIO: IT HAS? OKAY.
MS. GLICK: AND THAT'S WHY IT'S LIST -- THAT IS WHY IT
IS LISTED AS NEAR THREATENED BECAUSE IT HAS DROPPED PRECIPITOUSLY, AND
THE USE OF THESE LIVING FOSSILS FOR BAIT IS REGRETTABLE AND INEXPLICABLE, IN
MY OPINION. BUT ALSO, THERE HAS BEEN A MAJOR DROP IN THE NEAR COLLAPSE
OF THE EEL FISHERY. SO THAT SEEMS TO BE MORE OF A PROBLEM.
MS. GIGLIO: SO IS THERE AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE BAIT
FOR CONCH AND FOR EEL?
MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK THAT IT -- IT THAT HAS BEEN,
ONE, THAT HAS BEEN THE ARGUMENT THAT THIS IS THE BEST BAIT, I WOULD
SUGGEST THAT IF A SPECIES THAT IS IN -- ISN'T THREATENED IS BEING USED FOR
BAIT THAT IT PROBABLY SHOULD NO LONGER BE USED FOR BAIT IF IT IS NEAR
THREATENED, A. AND, B, IF IT IS ALSO RESULTING IN THREATS TO OTHER SPECIES,
THE LOSS OF THAT SPECIES, THEN IT IS ALL THE MORE REASON WHY IT SHOULD NOT
BE USED AS BAIT.
MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO DOES THE DEC ISSUE PERMITS
TO COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN IN ORDER TO USE THE HORSESHOE CRABS FOR BAIT?
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MS. GLICK: CURRENTLY, THEY DO.
MS. GIGLIO: AND ARE THOSE PERMITS LIMITED AS TO THE
COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN AND HOW MANY CAN ACTUALLY HARVEST HORSESHOE
CRABS FOR BAIT?
MS. GLICK: THERE ARE LIMITS ON THE AMOUNT AND ALSO
ATTEMPTS TO -- IT LIMITS IT AT DIFFERENT TIMES IN AN ATTEMPT NOT TO HAVE THE
HORSESHOE CRAB COMPLETELY GO EXTINCT, BUT THAT IS, IN MY HUMBLE
OPINION, NOT THE BEST WAY TO PROCEED. SO...
MS. GIGLIO: ACTUALLY, THAT'S -- THANK YOU VERY
MUCH, BUT ACTUALLY, THE DEC ISSUES PERMITS FOR PEOPLE THAT CAN HARVEST
HORSESHOE CRABS, AND IT'S NOT BASED ON THE NUMBER OF HORSESHOE CRABS
THAT ARE THERE, IT'S BASED ON THE FULL MOON WHERE THEY SAY YOU CAN'T FISH
WHEN THERE'S A FULL MOON, WHICH IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, FOR A PERIOD
OF TEN DAYS SO THAT THEY CAN SPAWN. AND DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY
SPAWNING CLOSURES, ENACTED SPAWNING CLOSURES AND SANCTUARIES THERE
ARE IN NEW YORK STATE TO ALLOW FOR THE SPAWNING OF HORSESHOE CRABS?
MS. GLICK: I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT
THESE PROTECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE, AND WE, OF COURSE, HAVE
TALKED TO DEC ABOUT THIS, WE -- OUR HUMBLE OPINION, AND THAT'S WHY
THE BILL IS BEFORE US, IS THAT THEY -- THESE PROTECTIONS ARE NO LONGER
SUFFICIENT.
MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO THEY'RE -- ONE OF THE
SANCTUARIES IS IN THE FIRE ISLAND -- FIRE ISLAND NATIONAL SEASHORE, AND
THAT IS A COMPLETE CLOSURE OF HARVESTING THE HORSESHOE CRABS. DO YOU
KNOW HOW MANY HORSESHOE CRABS NEW YORK STATE CAN HARVEST IN A
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YEAR?
MS. GLICK: I THINK IT'S UNDER 155,000.
MS. GIGLIO: THERE'S 360,000. AND DO YOU KNOW
HOW MANY HAVE BEEN HARVESTED OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS?
MS. GLICK: I DON'T HAVE THAT -- I DON'T THINK I HAVE
THAT NUMBER HERE, BUT I'M SURE YOU DO BECAUSE --
MS. GIGLIO: YES.
MS. GLICK: -- YOU ASKED THE QUESTION.
MS. GIGLIO: YES, IT'S 150,000.
MS. GLICK: I WOULD JUST SIMPLY SAY THAT THERE ARE A
NUMBER OF PROBLEMS FACING THIS SPECIES, INCLUDING -- BECAUSE YOU
MENTIONED FIRE ISLAND -- SEA WATER RISE THAT IS LIMITING THEIR HABITAT AND
WHERE THEY CAN ACTUALLY SPAWN. SO GOING FORWARD, DEC MAY HAVE TO
DO FURTHER CLOSURES ALONG THE SOUTH SHORE ANYWAY BECAUSE OF SEA LEVEL
RISE, WHICH PREVENTS THESE CREATURES FROM FINDING A PLACE THAT IS AN
APPROPRIATE HABITAT FOR THEM TO SPAWN. WE ARE TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF
THE NEAR EXTINCTION OF THIS REMARKABLE CREATURE THAT HAS EXISTED SINCE
DINOSAURS WALKED THE EARTH AND SHOULD NOT BE USED SO CARELESSLY.
MS. GIGLIO: DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION FROM THE DEC
SAYING THAT THEY'RE BORDERLINE EXTINCT?
MS. GLICK: WE HAVE A -- A LISTING OF THREATENED,
AND THAT WAS...
(PAUSE)
WELL, THE ATLANTIC STATE MARINE FISHERIES
COMMISSION INDICATES THAT THREE OUT OF FOUR OF NEW YORK REGIONS WERE
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DEEMED POOR. THE POPULATION IS DEEMED POOR, MEANING THAT THEY HAD
DROPPED DRAMATICALLY SINCE THEIR 1998 CENSUS.
MS. GIGLIO: SO DO YOU THINK THAT IT WOULD BE
PRUDENT TO ASK THE DEC WHERE THOSE THREE REGIONS ARE AND MAYBE HAVE
THE DEC LIMIT THE PERMITS EVEN FURTHER IN THOSE AREAS --
MS. GLICK: NO.
MS. GIGLIO: -- RATHER THAN THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE
STATE, WHICH I'M BEING TOLD IS GOING TO PUT COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN OUT
OF BUSINESS, ESPECIALLY ON THE EAST END WHICH IS A BIG -- IT'S A BIG
CAREER ON THE EAST END OF LONG ISLAND.
MS. GLICK: WE'VE -- WE'VE TALKED TO DEC AND,
CLEARLY, THE PROTECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED THUS FAR HAVE, IN FACT,
BEEN INSUFFICIENT. AND THAT MAY BE FOR MANY REASONS, BUT IT --
INCLUDING HABITAT LOSS. BUT IT -- CERTAINLY, THEIR LIMITATIONS ARE NOT
WORKING TO MAINTAIN OR, BETTER, TO HELP THE SPECIES REBOUND. IT IS ON
THE DECLINE. AND RATHER THAN SEE THESE CREATURES GO EXTINCT IN OUR AREA,
WE HAVE THIS BILL BEFORE US.
MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON THE BILL.
MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. SO THE -- TO
DATE, DURING THE SPRING SEASON WHEN HORSESHOE CRABS CAN BE HARVESTED,
AND THERE'S A LIMIT OF 150,000, WHICH IS HALF, HALF OF WHAT THE ATLANTIC
STATES MARINE FISHERY [SIC] COMMISSION TOLD NEW YORK STATE YOU CAN
HAVE. YOU CAN HAVE 360,000 HORSESHOE CRABS A YEAR, NEW YORK STATE
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DEC LIMITED IT TO 150,000. THEY'RE VERY RESTRICTIVE AS TO WHO THEY
ISSUE THE LIMITED PERMITS TO THAT CAN ACTUALLY HARVEST THESE HORSESHOE
CRABS, AND TO DATE FOR THIS SPRING, OUT OF 150,000 THAT COULD BE
HARVESTED, ONLY 40,000 HAVE BEEN HARVESTED.
ALSO, I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT SHORELINE HARDENING IS
SPAWNING AREAS FOR HORSESHOE CRABS, BECAUSE NOBODY CAN GET TO THEM,
AND THAT'S WHERE THEY GO TO SPAWN. SO THE SPAWNING IS HAPPENING.
THE NUMBER OF HORSESHOE CRABS ON THE EAST END OF LONG ISLAND HAS
INCREASED OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, NOT DECREASED, THE PERMITS ARE STILL
LIMITED, AND THIS BILL IS GOING TO PUT COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN OUT OF
BUSINESS THAT SERVES COMMUNITIES IN UPPER WESTERN NEW YORK SUCH AS
QUEENS, FLUSHING, THOSE AREAS. THOSE PEOPLE COME TO EAST END OF
LONG ISLAND TO GET THE CONCH, TO GET THE EEL FOR THEIR RESTAURANTS. SO
NOT ONLY IS THIS BILL GOING TO HURT THE COMMERCIAL FISHER -- FISHERMEN ON
THE EAST END OF LONG ISLAND, IT'S ALSO GOING TO HURT RESTAURANTS UP WEST
IN THE QUEENS AREA, WHICH THESE PEOPLE COME TO LONG ISLAND TWICE A
WEEK TO GET THEIR FISH FROM THESE FISHERMEN. AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN
AN ALTERNATIVE, ALTHOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN MANY ATTEMPTS TO FIND AN
ALTERNATIVE AS TO WHAT YOU CAN USE TO -- FOR BAIT FOR THAT TYPE OF SPECIES,
WHICH THERE IS AMPLE OF, AND I -- I JUST FEEL LIKE WE ARE TURNING THE
ECOSYSTEM AROUND, AND I THINK THE NEW YORK STATE DEC IS DOING A
GOOD JOB WITH THE LIMITED PERMITS THAT THEY ISSUE. AND YOU'RE NOT ONLY
GONNA PUT COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN OUT OF BUSINESS, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO
HURT RESTAURANTS UP WEST ON LONG ISLAND THAT SERVE CONCH AND EEL.
SO FOR THOSE REASONS, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. WE DO NOT WANT TO PUT
COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN OUT OF BUSINESS. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MS. GLICK.
MS. GLICK: AND NOT TO PROLONG THIS, BUT JUST TO SAY
THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. YOU CAN'T SAY THAT THEY'RE HARDLY
TAKING ANY AND THEN YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE -- JUST PUT EVERY FISHER --
COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN OUT OF BUSINESS. THEY JUST -- THOSE TWO THINGS
CANNOT EXIST IN REALITY.
THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT SPECIES NOT JUST IN THE
ECOSYSTEM, BUT BECAUSE IT SUPPORTS OTHER SPECIES AND IT IS NEAR
THREATENED. IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE LIMITED
FISHING, THE USE FOR BAIT, IS TO -- FOR EEL AND CONCH, MOST OF WHICH IS
SHIPPED OVERSEAS AND IS NOT SERVED WIDELY IN -- IN EASTERN LONG ISLAND.
BUT I APPRECIATE THE PASSION, BUT THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PROTECTION,
CLEARLY WHAT DEC HAS BEEN DOING. AS GOOD AS DEC HAS TRIED TO BE, IT
IS INSUFFICIENT FOR THE PROTECTION OF THIS VERY IMPORTANT SPECIES.
AND SO I URGE EVERYBODY TO VOTE IN -- IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. RA.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS WILL BE A
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PARTY VOTE. THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY IN THE
NEGATIVE. THOSE THAT FEEL STUNG BY THE DESIRE TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE
CAN DO SO AT THEIR DESKS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MRS. PEOPLES-
STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, THE
DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN
EXCEPTION, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. WILLIAMS TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.
MS. WILLIAMS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RARELY
EVER GET UP TO SPEAK, BUT I FEEL AS THOUGH THIS BILL IS REALLY IMPORTANT,
IN PARTICULAR FOR MY DISTRICT IN THE SOUTH PART OF BROOKLYN, ESPECIALLY
PLUMB BEACH, WHERE EVERY YEAR WE SEE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF
HORSESHOE CRABS COMING -- COMING TO OUR SHORES TO REPRODUCE, AND WE
TAKE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE OUR SCHOOLS -- WE OFFER SCHOOL TRIPS SO
THAT OUR STUDENTS CAN ACTUALLY GO AND SEE THE HORSESHOE CRABS AND TO
LEARN ABOUT THEM, BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN AROUND FOR SUCH A LONG TIME.
AND THIS BILL WILL REALLY HELP TO -- TO FACILITATE THAT FOR FUTURE
GENERATIONS TO BE ABLE TO SEE AND KNOW WHAT THE HORSESHOE CRAB DOES.
IT'S REALLY A SPECIES THAT PROVIDES SO MANY DIFFERENT PURPOSES MEDICINE-
WISE. AND I, TOO, AM A FISHERWOMAN, I FISH ALL SUMMER LONG IN
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
JAMAICA BAY. SO IT'S -- IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. BUT I UNDERSTAND, YOU
KNOW, WITH THE OVERFISHING AND USING IT AS BAIT, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO
PRESERVE THEM FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO COME.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ARE THERE ANY
OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 14, RULES REPORT NO. 458, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09321-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 458, HEVESI, CLARK, STECK, ARDILA, BURDICK, REYES, L.
ROSENTHAL, EPSTEIN, TAPIA, SEAWRIGHT, KELLES, SIMONE, SIMON,
GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, O'DONNELL, BURGOS, KIM, DICKENS, DE LOS SANTOS,
WALKER, PAULIN, DAVILA, DINOWITZ, BEEPHAN, STERN, BORES, BRONSON,
LUNSFORD, CRUZ, SHRESTHA, LEVENBERG, TAYLOR, GIBBS, LAVINE,
MCDONALD, RAGA, CARROLL, GALLAHAN, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, GUNTHER,
GALLAGHER, MAMDANI, PRETLOW, MEEKS, FORREST. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
FAMILY COURT ACT AND THE SPECIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING
THE "SAFE LANDINGS FOR YOUTH LEAVING FOSTER CARE ACT" OR "SAFE
LANDINGS ACT."
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY
MR. HEVESI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION -- OH, SORRY.
MS. WALSH.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MR. SPEAKER,
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON THE BILL, MS.
WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU. SO THIS BILL HAS TO DO WITH
THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM. SO IN FOSTER CARE, KIDS USED TO BE ABLE TO STAY
'TIL 18 AND THEN IT BECAME 21. WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT WOULD EXTEND IT
TO THE AGE OF 22. SO I JUST WANT TO BRIEFLY TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT -- WHAT
THAT MEANS IN THE OVERALL SYSTEM. IT DOES SOMETHING ELSE, TOO, WHICH I
REALLY DO AGREE WITH. SO RIGHT NOW IN FAMILY COURT, YOU CAN HAVE AN
ATTORNEY FOR THE CHILD APPOINTED TO REPRESENT A FOSTER CARE KID UP TO THE
AGE OF 18, BUT WE KNOW THAT THEY CAN -- EVEN UNDER CURRENT LAW THEY
CAN BE IN UNTIL 21, BUT THEY -- THEY -- THEY CAN'T GET AN ATTORNEY
ASSIGNED TO THEM. SO WHAT THIS -- THIS BILL REMEDIES THAT, WHICH I
COMPLETELY AGREE WITH. I THINK THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT THAT IF THERE ARE
MOTIONS, OR IF THERE ARE PROCEEDINGS IN FAMILY COURT THAT IF THAT YOUTH IS
STILL IN THE FAMILY COURT SYSTEM PAST THE AGE OF 18, THEY SHOULD GET LEGAL
REPRESENTATION. SO I COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THAT PORTION OF THE BILL,
THAT'S -- I THINK THAT'S GREAT.
SO, RIGHT NOW IF YOU'RE IN FOSTER CARE, YOU CAN BE
PLACED WITH A FAMILY, YOU COULD BE IN A RESIDENTIAL PLACEMENT AS WELL.
AND LOCAL EXAMPLES THAT AT LEAST SOME OF THE LOCAL MEMBERS WOULD --
WOULD RECOGNIZE WOULD BE LIKE -- LIKE LASALLE SCHOOL OR
VANDERHEYDEN HALL OR NORTHERN RIVERS. THEY ALL HAVE RESIDENTIAL
PLACEMENTS. AND THOSE RESIDENTIAL PLACEMENTS CAN BE -- IT -- IT
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DEPENDS PLACE TO PLACE, BUT JUST FOR A ROUGH IDEA, AROUND $500 A DAY
PER -- PER PERSON IN FOSTER CARE. SO IT'S NOT AN INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF
MONEY, AND THAT COST IS BORNE BY THE COUNTIES. SO BY THIS BILL
EXTENDING FOSTER YOUTH TO THE AGE OF 22, THAT IS -- IT DOES PRESENT AN
UNFUNDED MANDATE ON OUR COUNTIES, AND IT ALSO DOES PRESENT AN
ADDITIONAL CASELOAD ONTO OUR ALREADY VERY OVERWORKED CASEWORKERS.
SO THAT ALL BEING SAID, THE TITLE OF THIS BILL TALKS ABOUT A
SOFT LANDING FOR FOSTER YOUTH, AND I ABSOLUTELY AGREE THAT THERE NEEDS TO
BE A SOFT LANDING. THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY IN THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM IS
WORKING TOWARDS. I MEAN, REALLY, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, TO HAVE A
FOSTER YOUTH IN UNTIL EVEN THE AGE OF 21, REPRESENTS, I DON'T KNOW, I'M
NOT GONNA SAY A FAILURE OF THE SYSTEM, BUT WE DON'T WANT KIDS TO HAVE
TO BE IN THAT FOSTER CARE SYSTEM UNTIL EVEN 21. IF THEY -- IF THEY CAN
ACHIEVE PERMANENCY WITH THEIR BIRTH FAMILY, I MEAN, THAT REALLY IS THE
GOLD STANDARD. AND AS I SPOKE THE OTHER DAY ON THE REUNIFICATION
RESOLUTION AT THE CLOSE OF SESSION, I TALKED ABOUT THAT, THAT THE ENTIRE
FOSTER CARE SYSTEM IS WORKING TOWARDS TRYING TO SET A PERMANENCY GOAL
FOR THAT YOUNG PERSON TO HOPEFULLY, IDEALLY, IF WE CAN GET THE FAMILY
REPAIRED AND READY TO RECEIVE THAT YOUNG PERSON BACK INTO THE HOME,
THAT'S WHAT WE -- THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE WANT, IDEALLY. SO -- BUT THERE
ARE GONNA BE INSTANCES WHERE FOSTER YOUTH ARE GONNA NEED TO STAY, EVEN
TO THE AGE OF 21.
SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS
SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, THEN, IF YOU HAVE ONE OF THE KIDS THAT ARE MAYBE
18, 19, 20 AND -- AND APPROACHING 21, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THEM IN
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TERMS OF PROGRAMMING? WELL, EVERY SIX MONTHS THERE IS A PERMANENCY
HEARING IN FAMILY COURT WHERE -- AND AS THE KIDS GET OLDER, I THINK -- I
WANT TO SAY IT'S 14, BUT I MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT THAT, THEY START TO BE
ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THEIR OWN PERMANENCY HEARINGS AND COME BEFORE
THE FAMILY COURT AND -- AND EXPRESS WHAT -- WHAT THEIR WISHES ARE; IF
THEY WISH TO STAY WITH THE FOSTER FAMILY, IF THEY WISH TO BE FREED FOR
ADOPTION, IF THEY WISH TO BE CONTINUED IN THEIR CURRENT PLACEMENT, AND
THEY GET TO VOICE WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE -- WOULD LIKE TO DO. BUT
ALTERING THIS PERIOD OF TIME, REALLY ON A WEEKLY BASIS WITH -- WITH A
WELL-FUNCTIONING SYSTEM, THERE ARE -- THERE'S LOTS OF WORK BEING DONE TO
TRY TO CREATE A PLAN FOR THAT YOUNG PERSON, TO TRANSITION THAT PERSON OUT
OF FOSTER CARE, EITHER, AS I SAID, IDEALLY, BACK TO THE HOME IF THAT IS
SOMETHING THAT COULD WORK, OR POSSIBLY INTO SOME TYPE OF A TRANSITIONAL
HOUSING, EDUCATION IS ALWAYS CONSIDERED, WORK. SO THERE -- THERE
SHOULD BE A LOT OF PLANNING GOING ON. SO WHEN I SAW THIS BILL AND I
SAW THAT IT'S EXTENDING TO 22, TO ME, THAT KIND OF REPRESENTS SOMETHING
THEY WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE, BECAUSE WE -- WE HOPE THAT CERTAINLY
BY THE AGE OF 21, A -- A GOOD TRANSITION PLAN HAS BEEN CREATED, BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY'S BEEN WORKING FOR ALL ALONG. SO IT'S EXPENSIVE
TO EXTEND KIDS FOR AN EXTRA YEAR. AND I USE THE TERM "KIDS", BUT I JUST
WANT TO POINT OUT THAT BY 22 -- WELL, BACKUP. SO AT 18 -- AT 17 YOU CAN
SIGN UP TO JOIN THE MILITARY, RIGHT, AT 18 YOU CAN SIGN A CONTRACT. AT 21
YOU CAN PURCHASE MARIJUANA, ALCOHOL, CIGARETTES. SO TO -- AT WHAT POINT
-- I THINK WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES, AT WHAT POINT DO WE STILL DEFINE A
YOUTH AS BEING 22 YEARS OLD? YOU KNOW, I THINK -- I FIND IT INTERESTING
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THAT IN OUR WORK HERE IN THE LEGISLATURE, THAT ANSWER REALLY DEPENDS ON
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. IS SEEMS TO ME THAT FOR SOME THINGS, WE
DON'T SEEM TO HAVE ANY PROBLEM SAYING THAT A VERY YOUNG PERSON CAN
MAKE CHOICES, YOU KNOW, CHOICES LIKE BIRTH CONTROL, CHOICES LIKE --
THINGS LIKE THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE MIGHT ARGUE SHOULD BE RESERVED FOR
SOMEBODY MAYBE A LITTLE OLDER, A LITTLE BIT MORE MATURE, BUT WE DON'T
DO THAT THERE. BUT THEN WHEN IT COMES TO OTHER POLICY CHOICES, WE TALK
A LOT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD IT A MILLION TIMES AND YOU HAVE, TOO,
ABOUT FRONTAL LOBE DEVELOPMENT AND NOT REALLY HAVING COMPLETE ABILITY
TO REASON UNTIL -- MATURE REASONING UNTIL 26, AND IT JUST KIND OF
DEPENDS. BUT I WOULD SAY THAT WE DO WANT A SOFT LANDING FOR OUR KIDS
IN FOSTER CARE, BUT IT CERTAINLY COMES AT PRICE. THAT PRICE IS BORNE BY
THE COUNTIES. IT IS AN UNFUNDED MANDATE, IT IS A -- WILL REPRESENT A
CONTINUED STRAIN ON THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM IN TERMS OF CASEWORK. AND
IT ALSO, REALLY BY THEN, CERTAINLY BY 21, THERE SHOULD BE A REALLY GOOD
TRANSITION PLAN IN PLACE. I WOULD RATHER -- IF WE'RE GONNA BE
APPROPRIATING ADDITIONAL MONIES, I WOULD MUCH RATHER SEE A SIGNIFICANT
INVESTMENT BE PLACED INTO REALLY GOOD TRANSITIONAL HOUSING. BECAUSE
FROM WHAT I CAN UNDERSTAND FROM TALKING TO CASEWORKERS AND DIRECTORS
IN MY AREA, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THERE REALLY IS A LACK OF. SO I'D RATHER
SEE THE WORK GO THERE, HAVE REALLY GOOD WORK BEING DONE WHILE THE
INDIVIDUAL IS IN FOSTER CARE PLACEMENT UP TO THE AGE OF 21, RATHER THAN
SEEING IT EXTEND TO 22. BECAUSE THEN WHAT I AM AFRAID OF IS THAT NEXT
YEAR IT COULD BE 23 AND THEN 24 AND 25 AND SO ON. I MEAN, WE'VE SEEN
THAT WITH OTHER BILLS AND OTHER INITIATIVES WITHIN THE -- WITHIN THE STATE,
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WITHIN OUR -- OUR BODY HERE. I THINK AT SOME POINT WE DO HAVE TO DRAW
THE LINE AND SAY AT SOME POINT WE NEED TO PROVIDE THAT SOFT LANDING, BUT
ALSO MAKE THAT GOOD TRANSITION PLAN SO THAT THE YOUNG PERSON CAN REALLY
GET STARTED WITH THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.
SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER, I APPRECIATE
THAT.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED BY MY
COLLEAGUE. THOSE WHO WISH TO SUPPORT IT SHOULD CERTAINLY VOTE YES ON
THE FLOOR. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE IS GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF THIS
PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT CHOOSE TO BE AN
EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. HEVESI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. HEVESI: GREAT. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND
THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUES, AND THANK YOU TO MS. WALSH. I APPRECIATE
YOUR COMMENTS ON THIS BILL.
A COUPLE OF ISSUES FOR -- FOR MY COLLEAGUES TO
UNDERSTAND. NUMBER ONE, THIS BILL DOES NOT EXTEND FOSTER CARE UP UNTIL
22. WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS ALLOW THE FAMILY COURT TO MAINTAIN
JURISDICTIONS FOR ORDERS THEY GAVE FOR THE KID BEFORE THE KID WAS 21. SO
THIS IS FOR THE CIRCUMSTANCE WHEN AN AGENCY, A LOCAL SOCIAL SERVICES
DISTRICT, OR A DIFFERENT AGENCY WAS SUPPOSED TO ALREADY PROVIDE SERVICES
FOR THESE KIDS, BUT THEY WEREN'T DOING IT. AND AS A RESULT NOW THE WAY
THE LAW IS WRITTEN, FAMILY COURT HAS NO JURISDICTIONS OVER KIDS WHO ARE
21. SO THAT'S -- THAT'S NUMBER ONE, IT DOESN'T EXTEND IT TO 22 YEARS OLD.
THE OTHER POINT I'D LIKE TO MAKE IS THERE'S NO NEW
MONEY HERE. SO NUMBER ONE, WE ARE TRYING TO ALLOW THE FAMILY COURT
TO ENFORCE SERVICES THAT ARE REQUIRED THAT HAVE ALREADY -- THEY SHOULD
HAVE BEEN PAID FOR, THE COUNTY SHOULD HAVE PAID FOR IT. IF BY
CIRCUMSTANCE, THOSE SERVICES HAVE NOT BEEN PROVIDED WHEN THE KID
BECOMES 21, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN THAT KICK IN WITH
THIS BILL. NUMBER ONE, IS THE KID IS APPOINTED AN ATTORNEY. THAT MONEY
IS GONNA BE COMING OUT OF THE STATE FUND ONLY, THE AFC, ATTORNEY FOR
THE CHILDREN. SO THAT'S NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, THE LOCAL SERVICES,
AS I SAID BEFORE, SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BY THOSE
AGENCIES, SO THERE'S NO NEW COST THERE. AND IF PERHAPS ONE OF THOSE
KIDS HAS TO COME BACK TO FOSTER CARE, THERE IS AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THAT WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE FEDERAL TITLE IV-E MONEY FOR THAT
BECAUSE THAT ONLY ALLOWS FUNDING TO GO UP TO 21; HOWEVER, WE BELIEVE
THAT YOU CAN USE A DIFFERENT FEDERAL POT, CHAFEE MONEY, WHICH ALLOWS
SERVICES FOR THOSE KIDS UP TO 23. SO FROM OUR ESTIMATION THERE IS NO
NEW COST TO COUNTIES, LET ME MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON THAT. NO NEW
COST TO COUNTIES, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE KIDS ARE NOT
FALLING INTO HOMELESSNESS OR GETTING INTO OTHER DIFFICULTIES LATER IN LIFE
BECAUSE THE SERVICES THAT THE COURT MANDATED HAD NOT BEEN PROVIDED.
I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE FOR THIS BILL. THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. HEVESI IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. FIRST, LET ME COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION. I THINK A LOT OF US DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DEPTH OF WHAT THIS
MEANS TO SOME YOUNG PEOPLE WHO COULD STILL BE NEEDING SERVICES BUT
COULDN'T GET ACCESS TO THEM. AND AS WAS STATED BY THE SPONSOR, THE
RESOURCES ARE THERE, SO THERE'S NO NEW RESOURCES. I THINK THE OTHER
THING PEOPLE MAY LOSE SIGHT OF IS THAT SOMETIMES AS A SOCIETY WITH THE
POLICIES THAT WE CREATE, THE LAWS THAT WE MAKE, THE CRIMINALIZATION OF
PEOPLE THAT WE DO, WE LITERALLY HAVE SET SOME OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE UP
FOR -- TO BE IN THE FOSTER CARE BUSINESS. WE LOCK THEIR PARENTS UP
INADVERTENTLY OR ON PURPOSE OR HOWEVER YOU WANT TO CHOOSE TO USE IT,
AND NOW THEY'RE IN FOSTER CARE BEING ABUSED BY OTHER PEOPLE. NOW
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THEY GET OUT AND THEY'RE ABUSING OTHER PEOPLE AND THERE'S THIS VICIOUS
CYCLE OF TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCES THAT PEOPLE LIVING THEIR LIFE BY SOME OF
THE POLICIES THAT WE IN GOVERNMENT OFTEN IMPLEMENT. AND SO YOU CAN
SEE WHY WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME TRYING TO CORRECT THOSE POLICIES BECAUSE
AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF WE CAN GET THEM CORRECTED, PERHAPS WE CAN GET
TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY DECREASING TAX DOLLARS FOR PEOPLE
BECAUSE WE WON'T NEED AS MUCH TO SPEND ON PEOPLE'S LIVES BECAUSE
THEY'LL BE STRONG ENOUGH AND HEALTHY ENOUGH TO TAKE CARE OF
THEMSELVES.
SO AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR THIS BILL, MR. HEVESI, AND I'M
GRATEFUL TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE IN SUPPORT OF IT.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MRS. PEOPLES-
STOKES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, THERE IS AN
A-CALENDAR ON OUR DESKS. I WOULD ASK, PLEASE, IF YOU WOULD MOVE THAT
CALENDAR. MOTION TO MOVE THE CALENDAR A.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON MRS. PEOPLES-
STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU. IF WE CAN
NOW GO TO PAGE 3 AND BEGIN OUR WORK WITH RULES REPORT NO. 558 BY
MR. MAGNARELLI.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: A-CALENDAR ON
CONSENT, PAGE 3, RULES REPORT NO. 558, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00146, RULES REPORT
NO. 558, MAGNARELLI, HUNTER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES
LAW, IN RELATION TO COMMUTER PASSES ON THE NEW YORK STATE THRUWAY
IN THE SYRACUSE AREA; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS
UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02050, RULES REPORT
NO. 559 IS ON BY ERROR.
ASSEMBLY NO. A05248-A, RULES REPORT NO. 560,
HUNTER, WALLACE, KELLES, LUPARDO, RAMOS, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW AND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO
INCLUDING PROVIDING ONSITE CHILD DAYCARE FACILITIES BY A PROJECT INTO A
UNIFORM TAX EXEMPTION POLICY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY
129
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. HUNTER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05681-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 561, OTIS, THIELE, L. ROSENTHAL, SIMON, LUNSFORD,
SHIMSKY, SIMONE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN
RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE ELECTRIC LANDSCAPING EQUIPMENT REBATE
PROGRAM; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON
EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY
MR. OTIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05822, RULES REPORT
NO. 562, DESTEFANO. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE ASSESSOR OF
THE TOWN OF BROOKHAVEN, COUNTY OF SUFFOLK, TO ACCEPT FROM THE
POST-MORROW FOUNDATION, INC. AN APPLICATION FOR EXEMPTION FROM REAL
PROPERTY TAXES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DESTEFANO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06500-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 563, CURRAN. AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF HEMPSTEAD
TO TRANSFER OWNERSHIP OF CERTAIN PARKLAND TO THE VILLAGE OF FREEPORT.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY
MR. CURRAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06508-B, RULES
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
REPORT NO. 564, PHEFFER AMATO, STERN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE RETIREMENT OF
COUNTY CORRECTION OFFICERS IN SUFFOLK COUNTY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY
MS. PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE
BILL IS ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06776-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 565, SLATER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW,
IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE TOWN OF PUTNAM VALLEY, PUTNAM COUNTY,
TO LEASE CERTAIN SPORTS FIELD FENCES FOR ADVERTISEMENTS.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY
MR. SLATER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06782-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 566, BRONSON, LUNSFORD, SILLITTI, CLARK, SLATER, JENSEN,
ARDILA, EPSTEIN, SAYEGH, SHIMSKY, OTIS, MORINELLO, STIRPE. AN ACT TO
AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO INCLUDING A FACULTY OR STAFF
MEMBER ON THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF COMMUNITY COLLEGES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A -- ON A
MOTION BY MR. BRONSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE
SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07652, RULES REPORT
NO. 567, STECK, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND
TRAFFIC LAW AND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A
SCHOOL SPEED ZONE CAMERA DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM IN THE CITY OF
SCHENECTADY; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON
EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: HOME RULE
MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07748-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 569, SHIMSKY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX
LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE "CLIMATE CHANGE PROPERTY TAX RELIEF
ACT."
(PAUSE)
ASSEMBLY NO. A07653, RULES REPORT NO. 568, STECK,
SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN
RELATION TO ADJUDICATIONS AND OWNER LIABILITY FOR A VIOLATION OF
TRAFFIC-CONTROL SIGNAL INDICATIONS IN THE CITY OF SCHENECTADY; AND TO
AMEND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION TO ACCESSING RECORDS; AND
PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: HOME RULE
MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07748-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 569, SHIMSKY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX
LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE "CLIMATE CHANGE PROPERTY TAX RELIEF
ACT".
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY
MS. SHIMSKY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08131-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 570, FALL. AN ACT TO PERMIT ACCIDENTAL DEATH BENEFITS TO BE
AWARDED TO THE BENEFICIARY OF ANTHONY VARVARO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
FALL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
135
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08595-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 571, ZEBROWSKI, JACOBSON, OTIS, L. ROSENTHAL, THIELE. AN
ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE
NEW YORK STATE ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY TO
ADMINISTER A PROGRAM TO PROVIDE GRANTS RELATED TO SWITCHING RESIDENCES
TO ELECTRIC HEAT PUMPS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
ZEBROWSKI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08892, RULES REPORT
NO. 572, GRAY, BYRNES, LEMONDES. AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE VILLAGE OF
CLAYTON TO OFFER AN OPTIONAL TWENTY-YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN TO A CERTAIN
POLICE OFFICER EMPLOYED BY SUCH VILLAGE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
GRAY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
136
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08931, RULES REPORT
NO. 573, BRONSON, HUNTER, SHIMSKY, TAPIA, ARDILA, HEVESI,
LEVENBERG, MCMAHON, JACOBSON, DAVILA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING PAID FAMILY
LEAVE BENEFITS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09011-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 574, EACHUS, DINOWITZ, SHIMSKY, ALVAREZ, TAYLOR, WALKER,
CUNNINGHAM, JACOBSON, GUNTHER, CONRAD, LUNSFORD, WALLACE,
SEAWRIGHT, OTIS, PAULIN, LEVENBERG, SHRESTHA, ZEBROWSKI, JENSEN,
SLATER, BRABENEC, SMITH, BARRETT, MORINELLO, LUPARDO, BURDICK, MILLER,
DURSO, FALL, JEAN-PIERRE, LAVINE, SAYEGH, MCMAHON, CURRAN, STECK,
SILLITTI, HYNDMAN, HUNTER, WOERNER, PHEFFER AMATO, MEEKS,
GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, GIBBS, ZINERMAN, DESTEFANO, STIRPE, GALLAHAN,
REYES, BORES, GANDOLFO, CLARK, COLTON, BURGOS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE IN
SCHOOL BUILDINGS AND INDOOR FACILITIES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
EACHUS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
137
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: NOVEMBER 1ST, 2025.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09539, RULES REPORT
NO. 575, EICHENSTEIN, WEPRIN, GALLAGHER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
INSURANCE LAW AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING
INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR RARE DISEASES, LIFE-THREATENING CONDITIONS OR
DISEASES, DEGENERATIVE AND DISABLING CONDITIONS, OR DIAGNOSES
INVOLVING MEDICALLY FRAGILE CHILDREN.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09540, RULES REPORT
NO. 576, PHEFFER AMATO, SANTABARBRA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO ELIGIBILITY FOR
RETIREMENT BENEFITS FOR CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE UNIFIED COURT SYSTEM.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
138
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09665, RULES REPORT
NO. 577, GALLAHAN, PALMESANO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC
AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE "SENECA COUNTY WATER AND
SEWER AUTHORITY ACT."
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
GALLAHAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10075, RULES REPORT
NO. 578 FAHY, MCDONALD. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 693 OF THE LAWS
OF 1980, ENABLING THE COUNTY OF ALBANY TO IMPOSE AND COLLECT TAXES ON
OCCUPANCY OF HOTEL OR MOTEL ROOMS IN ALBANY COUNTY, IN RELATION TO
THE APPLICABILITY THEREOF.
139
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
FAHY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10146, RULES REPORT
NO. 579, COMMITTEE ON RULES - BARRETT (COLTON). AN ACT TO AMEND THE
REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING AN EXEMPTION FROM
TAXATION FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS TO RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS TO REDUCE
CARBON EMISSIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
BARRETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
140
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10224-C, RULES
REPORT NO. 580, COMMITTEE ON RULES - SIMONE (GLICK, L. ROSENTHAL,
FALL, THIELE, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, EPSTEIN, CARROLL). AN ACT TO AMEND THE
HUDSON RIVER PARK ACT, IN RELATION TO THE RIGHTS, POWERS, DUTIES AND
JURISDICTION OF THE HUDSON RIVER PARK TRUST AND THE BOUNDARIES AND
USES OF THE HUDSON RIVER PARK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SIMONE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10324-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 581, COMMITTEE ON RULES - SEPTIMO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO RECIPROCAL MINORITY AND WOMEN-OWNED
BUSINESS ENTERPRISE CERTIFICATION.
141
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
SEPTIMO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10358-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 582, COMMITTEE ON RULES - FAHY (MCDONALD). AN ACT TO
AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO CREATING THE ALBANY
COUNTY PINE HILLS LAND AUTHORITY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
FAHY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10405, RULES REPORT
NO. 583, COMMITTEE ON RULES - LEVENBERG. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX
LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING AN OCCUPANCY TAX IN THE TOWN OF
OSSINING.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
LEVENBERG, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
142
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10525, RULES REPORT
NO. 584, COMMITTEE ON RULES - PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
CIVIL SERVICE LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO
COMPENSATION, BENEFITS AND OTHER TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT
FOR MEMBERS OF THE COLLECTIVE NEGOTIATING UNIT DESIGNATED AS THE
AGENCY POLICE SERVICES UNIT; TO IMPLEMENT AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
STATE OF NEW YORK AND THE EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATION REPRESENTING
MEMBERS OF THE COLLECTIVE NEGOTIATING UNIT DESIGNATED AS THE AGENCY
POLICE SERVICES UNIT; MAKING AN APPROPRIATION THEREFOR; AND TO REPEAL
CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW RELATING THERETO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
143
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10526, RULES REPORT
NO. 585, COMMITTEE ON RULES - PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
CIVIL SERVICE LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO
COMPENSATION, BENEFITS AND OTHER TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT
OF CERTAIN STATE OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE
SECURITY SERVICES COLLECTIVE NEGOTIATING UNIT; AUTHORIZING FUNDING OF
JOINT LABOR-MANAGEMENT COMMITTEES; IMPLEMENTING AN AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE STATE AND AN EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATION; MAKING AN
APPROPRIATION THEREFOR; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE CIVIL
SERVICE LAW RELATING THERETO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
144
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10527, RULES REPORT
NO. 586, COMMITTEE ON RULES - PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
CIVIL SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO COMPENSATION, BENEFITS AND OTHER
TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT OF STATE OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES
WHO ARE THE MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY SUPERVISORS UNIT; TO AMEND THE
STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE EMPLOYEE BENEFIT FUND FOR ALL
MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY SUPERVISORS UNIT; TO AUTHORIZE FUNDING OF JOINT
LABOR-MANAGEMENT COMMITTEES; TO IMPLEMENT AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN
THE STATE AND THE EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATION REPRESENTING THE MEMBERS OF
THE SECURITY SUPERVISORS UNIT; TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE CIVIL
SERVICE LAW RELATING THERETO; AND MAKING AN APPROPRIATION FOR THE
PURPOSE OF EFFECTUATING CERTAIN PROVISIONS THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10528, RULES REPORT
NO. 587, COMMITTEE ON RULES - PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
145
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CIVIL SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO COMPENSATION, BENEFITS AND OTHER
TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT FOR MEMBERS OF THE DISTRICT
COUNCIL 37 RENT REGULATION SERVICES UNIT; TO AMEND PART A OF CHAPTER
361 OF THE LAWS OF 2022, AMENDING THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW AND THE
STATE FINANCE LAW RELATING TO COMPENSATION AND OTHER TERMS AND
CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT OF CERTAIN STATE OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES, TO
AUTHORIZE FUNDING OF JOINT LABOR-MANAGEMENT COMMITTEES, AND RELATING
TO IMPLEMENTING AGREEMENTS BETWEEN THE STATE AND AN EMPLOYEE
ORGANIZATION, IN RELATION TO LOCATION PAY FOR CERTAIN STATE OFFICERS AND
EMPLOYEES; TO IMPLEMENT A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT BETWEEN
THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND THE DISTRICT COUNCIL 37 RENT REGULATION
SERVICES UNIT; MAKING AN APPROPRIATION THEREFOR; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN
PROVISIONS OF THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW RELATING THERETO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10565, RULES REPORT
146
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
NO. 588, COMMITTEE ON RULES - WOERNER (JONES, BUTTENSCHON). AN ACT
TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO
ELECTRONIC IDENTIFICATION OF HUNTING LICENSE HOLDERS AND THE TAGGING OF
DEER AND BEARS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
WOERNER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF WE COULD
NOW CONTINUE ON OUR DEBATE LIST. WE'RE GOING TO GO TO RULES REPORT
NO. 557 BY MS. LUPARDO, THAT'S ACTUALLY ON THE MAIN CALENDAR. AND
THEN WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THAT WITH RULES REPORT NO. 265 BY MS.
WALLACE, RULES REPORT NO. 401 BY MR. BRONSON AND RULES REPORT NO.
473 BY MR. SIMONE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PAGE 26, RULES
REPORT NO. 557, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03132-A, RULES
147
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
REPORT NO. 557, LUPARDO, THIELE, STERN, BENDETT, MANKTELOW, BARRETT,
LUNSFORD, SANTABARBARA, MAGNARELLI, OTIS, ZINERMAN, DURSO,
PALMESANO, MAHER, BRABENEC, SMULLEN, SIMPSON, FLOOD, SIMON,
CLARK, FAHY, DAVILA, RAGA, LAVINE, DICKENS, HEVESI, MCDONALD,
GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, SHIMSKY, MCGOWAN, GALLAHAN, BLANKENBUSH,
HAWLEY, TAGUE, ANGELINO, J.M. GIGLIO, J.A. GIGLIO, NOVAKHOV,
HUNTER, LUCAS, NORRIS, SHRESTHA, ZACCARO, STIRPE, WALLACE, GRAY,
MCMAHON, MCDONOUGH, SEAWRIGHT, SIMONE, REYES, BORES, BICHOTTE
HERMELYN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW, IN
RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE DIRECT INTRASTATE AND INTERSTATE SHIPMENT OF
LIQUOR, CIDER, MEAD, AND BRAGGOT AND RELATES TO DIRECT SHIPMENTS OF
WINE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LUPARDO, AN
EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. LUPARDO: CERTAINLY. SO I'M -- I'M HAPPY TO
GIVE YOU A -- A SHORT EXPLANATION AND ANSWER AS MANY QUESTIONS AS YOU
HAVE. SO IN SHORT, THE BILL AUTHORIZES DIRECT-TO-CONSUMER SHIPMENT OF
DISTILLED LIQUOR, CIDER AND MEAD TO A PRIVATE RESIDENCE BOTH IN-STATE AND
OUT-OF-STATE. THE AUTHORIZATION WOULD PROVIDE PARITY WITH EXISTING
DIRECT-TO-CONSUMER SHIPMENT OF WINE, WHICH HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED SINCE
2005. IT IS HELPFUL IN SEVERAL MAIN WAYS. IT'S GOING TO HELP SUPPORT THE
GROWTH OF OUR MICRO DISTILLERIES AND OUR CIDERIES BY ALLOWING THEM TO
HAVE THIS TYPE OF SHIPMENT. IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF
THESE PRODUCTS ARE NOT CURRENTLY ON NEW YORK STATE LIQUOR SHELVES. IT'S
GOING TO HELP THEM GROW THESE SMALL BUSINESSES SO THAT THEY MAY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
EVENTUALLY BE LARGE ENOUGH TO WIND UP ON LIQUOR SHELVES AND BE PART OF
THE WHOLESALE SYSTEM. AND IT ALSO HELPS OUR FARMERS, WHICH IS WHY IT'S
THE FARM BUREAU AND MANY OF US ARE -- ARE VERY KEEN ON THIS BECAUSE IT
HELPS OUR FARMERS WHO PROVIDE THEM WITH THE GRAIN, THE POTATOES AND
THE FRUIT FOR THE PRODUCTS THAT THEY MAKE. IT WAS DONE SAFELY DURING
COVID, AND WE'D LIKE TO GIVE THEM A SHOT TO NOT ONLY GROW THEIR
BUSINESS, BUT IT'S HONESTLY GOING TO BE A LIFELINE AS MANY OF THEM NEED
THIS TO GROW.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. LUPARDO: YES, I WILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LUPARDO --
MS. LUPARDO YIELDS.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU FOR THE -- FOR THE
EXPLANATION. SO I KNOW THE GENERAL INTENT OF THIS BILL, WHICH IS WHAT I
THINK WE WOULD ALL SUPPORT IS TO OPEN UP A MARKET FOR PRODUCTS FOR A
LOT OF OUR IN-STATE, YOU SAID CIDERIES, MEADERIES, DISTILLERIES, BUT I DO
HAVE SOME QUESTIONS IN TERMS OF HOW THIS IS ALL GOING TO WORK. AS YOU
MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF DIRECT SHIPPING OF WINE FOR
MANY YEARS BUT NOT THESE OTHER SPECIFIC LICENSES. SO LET'S START THERE,
BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF LICENSES OUR
STATE ISSUES TO THESE VARIOUS TYPE -- TYPES OF ENTITIES. SO HOW MANY
DIFFERENT TYPES OF LICENSES ARE THERE THAT WOULD NOW BE ABLE TO SHIP
DIRECTLY TO A CONSUMER UNDER THIS BILL?
149
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. LUPARDO: SURE. JUST GIVE ME A SECOND TO FIND
THAT PAGE. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIX LICENSES. ONE IS CLASS A1, WHICH
IS FOR MICRODISTILLERS. THESE ARE FOR MICRODISTILLERS WHO ARE INSTILLING
75,000 GALLONS OR LESS. CLASS B1, WHICH ARE MICRO RECTIFIERS. THESE
ARE FOLKS WHO ARE JUST ESSENTIALLY CREATING A BASE SPIRIT THAT THEN OTHERS
CAN USE TO BE INFUSED WITH PRODUCTS FOR THEIR OWN DISTILLERIES. CLASS C,
WHICH IS FOR FRUITED BRANDY. CLASS D, WHICH MOST OF US ARE FAMILIAR
WITH, WHICH IS FARM DISTILLERIES. MANY OF OUR FARM DISTILLERIES ALSO
HAVE A1 LICENSES. THE FARM DISTILLERIES IS DEFINED BY THE PERCENTAGE OF
THE NEW YORK STATE FARM PRODUCTS THAT THEY USE AND THAT WOULD BE 75
PERCENT. THEY ALSO HAVE AN A1 LICENSE, THOSE FARMERS, IN CASE THEY
WOULD LIKE TO TRY A PRODUCT THAT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT AND DOESN'T HAVE
THAT -- THAT TYPE OF PERCENTAGE. WE'RE ALSO -- I THINK THERE'S -- ARE THERE
TWO MORE? OF COURSE. AND THEN ALL CIDERIES AND ALL MEADERIES. SO
WE'RE TALKING SIX LICENSES ALL TOGETHER.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND AM I CORRECT, SO THE -- THE LIMIT
ON ANNUAL PRODUCTION TO QUALIFY FOR THESE, YOU KNOW, THE
MICRODISTILLERY, THE MICRO RECTIFIER, FARM DISTILLERY IS 75,000 GALLONS.
MS. LUPARDO: CORRECT. IT'S CAPPED AT THAT. IF THEY
WERE TO GO ABOVE THAT, THEN THEY WOULD WIND UP BEING IN A DIFFERENT
CATEGORY AND THAT WOULD BE MORE OF THE LARGER -- THE LARGER PRODUCERS
THAT WOULD PUT THEM INTO A CLASS A.
MR. RA: AND THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SHIP DIRECT
UNDER THIS BILL.
MS. LUPARDO: NO. THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SHIP DIRECT.
MR. RA: OKAY. NOW --
MS. LUPARDO: I MIGHT ADD IF YOU JUST ANTICIPATE A
POTENTIAL QUESTION. IF A LARGE PRODUCER OUT-OF-STATE OR OUT-OF-STATE WITH
A CLASS A LICENSE, A BIG ALCOHOL PRODUCER WERE TO PURCHASE ONE OF
THESE SMALLER DISTILLERIES, THEY WOULD HAVE TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES ON
THE LICENSE, THEREBY DISQUALIFYING THEMSELVES FROM PARTICIPATING IN
DIRECT-TO-CONSUMER SHIPPING BECAUSE THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY WOULD
LOOK AT THE AGGREGATE OF ALL OF THEIR PRODUCTION. SO THE FEAR THAT THEY
WOULD COME IN AND SOMEHOW WIND UP BUYING UP DISTILLERS, THEY WOULD
HAVE TO DISCLOSE WHO THEY ARE; THEREFORE, THEY WOULD DISQUALIFY
THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY COLLECTIVELY MAKE WAY MORE THAN 75,000
GALLONS.
MR. RA: OKAY. SO THAT -- THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY
NEXT QUESTION. BUT SO -- SO HOW DOES THAT WORK IN TERMS OF LICENSE,
THOUGH. I MEAN OBVIOUSLY IF -- IF ONE CORPORATION BUYS THE OTHER AND
NOW IT'S -- IT'S COMPLETELY PART OF THE CORPORATION NOW THAT'S WHO'S
APPLYING FOR THE LICENSE SO THAT MAKES SENSE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO LOOK
AT THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF -- OF GALLONS, BUT WHAT IF THEY FORM -- JUST FORM A
NEW COMPANY THAT IS GOING TO BE A SMALLER PRODUCER AND THEY CREATE A
NEW LABEL FOR, YOU KNOW, A MICRODISTILLERY? WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO
SHIP INTO NEW YORK STATE?
MS. LUPARDO: SO THE ABILITY TO SHIP OUT-OF-STATE,
WE TALKED ABOUT IN-STATE SHIPPING.
MR. RA: YUP.
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MS. LUPARDO: THESE CLASSIFICATIONS WOULD BE ABLE
TO SHIP OUT-OF-STATE TO SIMILARLY -- TO SIMILAR LICENSEES. SO THE FARM
DISTILLER -- THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY WOULD COME IN AND SAY OK, FARM
DISTILLERY A WANTS TO SHIP INTO THIS PARTICULAR STATE. THEY WOULD ONLY
HAVE RECIPROCITY WITH ANOTHER FARM DISTILLERY.
MR. RA: YES.
MS. LUPARDO: SO IT'S GOT TO BE ON THE SAME PAR.
MR. RA: YES.
MS. LUPARDO: SO IF A -- IF A COMPANY FROM
OUT-OF-STATE WANTED TO SHIP IN HERE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO ALSO BE BELOW
75,000 GALLONS. THERE'S NOT A WAY FOR A BIG COMPANY TO GAME THE
SYSTEM UNLESS THEY WANTED TO GET INTO THE CRAFT INDUSTRY AND BUY STUFF
FROM OUR FARMERS, WHICH WE WOULD ACTUALLY WELCOME. FARMERS ARE
LOOKING FOR -- FOR CUSTOMERS. SO THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY BAD ABOUT A
LARGE ALCOHOL COMPANY, BUT IF THEY WANT TO CREATE A SMALL NICHE BRAND
THAT PEOPLE CAN ENJOY AND EMPLOY OUR FARMERS IN THE PROCESS, I DON'T
THINK THAT'S AN ISSUE.
MR. RA: SO ARE YOU SAYING THEN IF A BRAND WERE TO,
YOU KNOW, A MAJOR BRAND THAT WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH, YOU KNOW, THAT HAS
VERY BIG MARKET REACH THAT WE SEE, YOU KNOW, ADVERTISING FOR ALL THE
TIME. IF THEY WANTED TO GET INTO, YOU KNOW, A MICRODISTILLERY, YOU
KNOW, LICENSE, WHAT -- YOU KNOW, WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO -- YOU'RE SAYING
IF THEY -- IF THEY WERE TO DO THAT TO SAY THEY CREATE A NEW COMPANY, A
NEW LABEL AND WANT TO DO THAT, PART OF THAT WOULD'VE REQUIRED THAT
THEY'RE BUYING NEW YORK STATE PRODUCTS AS PART OF THEIR OPERATIONS FOR
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PRODUCING WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE, THAT SPIRIT I GUESS?
MS. LUPARDO: WELL, IF THEY RECEIVED A FARM
DISTILLERY LICENSE, WHICH IS CLASSIFICATION D, THEY WOULD HAVE TO USE 75
PERCENT OF --
MR. RA: OKAY. BUT WHAT ABOUT A --
MS. LUPARDO: OR NO. OF COURSE IF THEY WENT WITH
AN A1, THEY'D STILL HAVE TO HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF GALLONS, 75,000,
BUT THEY WOULDN'T BE OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE.
MR. RA: OKAY, BUT IS THAT BASED ON THE APPLICANT, IS
IT BASED ON THE CORPORATE OWNERSHIP, INDIVIDUAL? LIKE HOW -- I THINK
THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS THAT SOMEBODY CAN STRUCTURE SOMETHING
FROM A CORPORATE STANDPOINT THAT IT'S NOT DIFFICULT FOR ME TO IMAGINE A
MAJOR NATIONAL BRAND BEING ABLE TO COME UP WITH A CORPORATE STRUCTURE
THAT -- THAT NOW GOES AND GETS AN A1 LICENSE AND CAN NOW SHIP INTO
NEW YORK STATE.
MS. LUPARDO: I'M SORT OF -- IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IF
YOU WERE TO TELL ME WHAT YOUR CONCERN IS. WHAT ARE YOU DRIVING AT?
THEN I CAN MAYBE WALK MYSELF --
MR. RA: I'M DRIVING AT EXACTLY THAT. A -- A MAJOR
NATIONAL BRAND CREATES A NEW CORPORATION AND, YOU KNOW, CREATES A --
CREATES A MICRODISTILLERY BRAND AND APPLIES FOR A CLASS A1 LICENSE AND
NOW HAS KIND OF UPPED THE FOOD CHAIN THE -- THE BACKING OF THAT MAJOR
BRAND AND -- BUT IS OPERATING IN DIRECT COMPETITION TO OUR -- OUR REALLY
LOCAL, SMALLER PRODUCERS.
MS. LUPARDO: I'VE TALKED TO OUR LOCAL, SMALLER
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PRODUCERS AND THAT DOES NOT BOTHER THEM. I MEAN THEY FEEL LIKE THEY
ARE PRODUCING WORLD-CLASS SPIRITS AND CIDER, ESPECIALLY NEW YORK CIDER
AND NEW YORK APPLES AND THE PRODUCTS THAT THE REST OF THESE FOLKS ARE
MAKING. SO I'VE BEEN ASSURED BY THEM THAT THEY -- THEY'RE NOT WORRIED
ABOUT THAT IN THE SLIGHTEST HAVING ANOTHER NICHE BRAND TO COMPETE WITH,
IT JUST ADDS TO THE INTEREST IN THE FIELD.
MR. RA: OKAY. NOW THAT -- I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR
THE POINTS BECAUSE I DO HAVE SOME OTHER QUESTIONS, BUT THAT 75,000
GALLON CAP I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH -- WITH THIS INDUSTRY. OBVIOUSLY, I --
I ENJOY, YOU KNOW, THESE PRODUCTS AND TRYING THEM, PARTICULARLY FROM --
FROM, YOU KNOW, OUR STATE BRANDS, BUT DO YOU KNOW WHAT -- LIKE WHAT
DOES THAT NUMBER LOOK LIKE IN COMPARISON TO, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE
LOCAL BRANDS WE SEE WHETHER THEY'RE DISTILLERIES, CIDERIES, IS THAT A FAIRLY
LARGE NUMBER OR -- OR IS THAT AROUND WHERE SOME OF THESE TYPES OF
SMALLER DISTILLERIES AND CIDERIES ARE IN TERMS OF PRODUCTION?
MS. LUPARDO: I DON'T KNOW ANY THAT ARE ACTUALLY
-- THERE MAY BE A COUPLE OF CIDERIES THAT ARE GETTING NEAR THAT PARTICULAR
NUMBER, BUT MOST OF THE DISTILLERIES ARE AT A FAR LOWER NUMBER THAN
THAT. LIKE IT'S HARD FOR ME TO DO THE MATH TO TELL YOU WHAT 750,000 --
75,000 GALLONS LOOKS LIKE ON A LIQUOR STORE SHELF EXACTLY, BUT IT'S -- IT'S
NOTHING THAT THEY'RE REACHING. AND IF THEY REACH IT, THEN THEY ARE
DISQUALIFIED FROM THAT -- THAT BENEFIT.
MR. RA: OKAY. BECAUSE I WOULD -- I WOULD JUST
POINT OUT FROM -- FROM THE INFORMATION I HAVE, 75,000 GALLONS EQUATE TO
ABOUT 1,450 BARRELS. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, ONE OF THE LARGEST FARM
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DISTILLERIES IN NEW YORK MAKES ABOUT 80 BARRELS, WHICH IS 4,200
GALLONS AND SOME OF THE LARGEST ONES ARE ABOUT 19,000 GALLONS. SO THAT
-- THAT -- THAT SEEMS TO BE A MUCH LARGER. NOW I KNOW THAT --
MS. LUPARDO: SO THEY'RE NOT ANYWHERE CLOSE TO
THIS.
MR. RA: YEAH. SO THAT'S THE FUNCTION I THINK OF THE,
YOU KNOW, THE SIZE OF -- OF WHERE THIS CAP IS. NOW I -- I WANT TO GET
INTO A COUPLE OF OTHER -- OF THE ISSUES HERE. SO IN TERMS OF AGE
VERIFICATION. SO AN INDIVIDUAL PURCHASES, WHETHER IT'S ONLINE, I GUESS A
LOT OF THEM IN THIS DAY AND AGE WOULD BE PROBABLY THROUGH SOME TYPE
OF WEBSITE, THEY PURCHASE FROM -- FROM A PARTICULAR ENTITY. IT GETS
SHIPPED BY A UPS, A POSTAL SERVICE, A FEDEX, WHOEVER.
MS. LUPARDO: ACTUALLY, ONLY COMMON CARRIERS ARE
ALLOWED AND THAT WOULD JUST BE UPS OR FEDEX. THERE'S NO -- THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT ALLOW SHIPMENT --
MR. RA: OKAY. THAT MAKES SENSE. SO WHAT
HAPPENS? THE -- THE UPS OR FEDEX DRIVER UPON DELIVERY MAKES AN AGE
VERIFICATION?
MS. LUPARDO: WELL, IF ANYONE HERE IS A MEMBER
OF A WINE OF THE MONTH CLUB, BECAUSE WE DO SHIP WINE, THEY WILL NOT
LEAVE IT BEHIND. I MEAN THE BOX IS CLEARLY LABELED AND THEY WILL NOT
LEAVE IT BEHIND WITHOUT A SIGNED VERIFICATION BY SOMEONE WHO IS 21
YEARS OLD.
MR. RA: OKAY. SO -- SO THE PERSON NEEDS TO
BASICALLY IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.
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MS. LUPARDO: YES.
MR. RA: DOES THE DRIVER HAVE TO CHECK ID OR IS IT --
MS. LUPARDO: YES, YES. THEY HAVE TO SHOW ID.
MR. RA: AND THEN -- AND THEN THEY HAVE -- THAT
PERSON OF LEGAL AGE HAS TO SIGN FOR THAT SHIPMENT.
MS. LUPARDO: CORRECT. AND WE CHECKED WITH THE
STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY THAT DURING THAT TIME PERIOD IN COVID WHEN
THEY WERE GRANTED THIS PRIVILEGE, THERE WERE NO INCIDENTS OF ANY
PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER IN THIS OCCURRING. SO WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO
THIS FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL THE COVID EXPERIMENT
THAT WE FOUND OUT THAT IT CAN BE DONE SAFELY THROUGH THESE COMMON
CARRIERS AND THERE WAS MINIMAL IF NO IMPACT ON LIQUOR STORES THAT
WEREN'T CARRYING THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE PRODUCTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
PLACE.
MR. RA: OKAY. I -- I -- I WOULD -- I WOULD TELL YOU --
I MEAN THIS IS ANECDOTAL, BUT I -- I DID TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT AT ONE
POINT DURING COVID AND I DO RECALL THAT THE SHIPMENT WAS JUST LEFT AT
MY HOUSE AND -- SO SOMEBODY DID NOT DO THE RIGHT THING IN -- IN THAT
REGARD.
MS. LUPARDO: MIGHT I ASK WAS IT A CAR DELIVERY
SERVICE OR WAS IT THROUGH THE MAIL?
MR. RA: IT WAS THROUGH -- IT WAS THROUGH A UPS OR
WHATEVER. IT -- IT WAS A DIRECT FROM A NEW YORK STATE CIDERY SO... I -- I
HOPE THAT -- I -- I MEAN NOT THAT I -- I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE ENTITIES
AREN'T GOING TO DO THEIR JOB PROPERLY, AND AS YOU SAID, I HOPE THAT, YOU
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KNOW, MANY OF THEM ARE USED TO PERHAPS DELIVERING WINE AND -- AND
THINGS OF THAT NATURE. AND I HAVE -- I HAVE GOTTEN WINE BY THE MAIL AND
HAVE HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF -- OF HAVING CHECKED. USUALLY I END UP
CALLING UPS AND SAYING HOLD IT AT THE PLACE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL
COME AT 4:00 IN THE AFTERNOON WHEN I'M NOT HOME.
MS. LUPARDO: YEAH. THE -- THE STATE LIQUOR
AUTHORITY HAS ASSURED ME THAT IF WE GO DOWN THIS ROAD, THAT THEY ARE
GOING TO BE VERY, VERY DILIGENT OF THIS. OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE
TO ISSUE REGULATIONS AROUND THIS AND I -- I EXPECT THIS TO BE VERY, VERY
WELL MONITORED.
MR. RA: OKAY. SO THE OTHER THING -- AND -- AND YOU
MENTIONED THIS EARLIER IN TERMS OF THE OPPOSITION TO THIS THAT HAS COME
ABOUT IN PARTICULAR FROM LIQUOR STORES AND OTHER TYPES OF STORES THAT --
THAT CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, SELL PRODUCTS, WHETHER IT'S THESE DIRECT
PRODUCTS OR OTHERS HAVING -- HAVING CONCERNS WITH THIS. NOW I KNOW
THAT OBVIOUSLY YOU MENTIONED COVID, RIGHT. OUR LIQUOR STORES THEY
THINK WERE THRIVING DURING COVID FOR VARIOUS REASONS AND WE DID
LOOSEN SOME OTHER LAWS TO ALLOW THIS. BUT THEY I GUESS HAVE A LITTLE BIT
OF A CONCERN THAT AS YOU KNOW WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT I WOULD SAY
OVERALL NEEDS SOME MODERNIZATION IN -- IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND
WE'VE DONE I THINK BITS AND PIECES OF THAT. WE HAVE ALCOHOL-TO-GO NOW
AND -- AND THIS IS ANOTHER BIT OF THAT, BUT I GUESS THE OVERALL QUESTION IS
WE HAVE THIS THREE-TIERED SYSTEM RIGHT NOW THAT SEEMS TO WORK PRETTY
WELL. SO WHAT IS THE REASON FOR -- FOR THIS DRASTIC CHANGE WITH REGARD TO
THAT?
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MS. LUPARDO: WELL, THE -- THE WHOLE POINT OF
HAVING A MICRODISTILLERY OR SMALL BATCH OPERATION IS THAT YOU ARE YOUR
OWN CONTAINED THREE-TIERED SYSTEM. I MEAN YOU ARE MANUFACTURING,
YOU'RE SELLING OUT OF YOUR TASTING -- TASTING ROOM, YOU'RE -- YOU KNOW,
YOU'RE DOING YOUR OWN PUBLICITY OR MARKETING ON THIS. SO THE POINT OF
ALL THIS IS TO GRADUATE THOSE SMALL BUSINESSES INTO THE LARGER THREE-TIERED
SYSTEM. THEY CAN'T GROW THEIR CUSTOMER BASE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE
CUSTOMERS CHANGE -- CONSUMER HABITS HAVE BEEN CHANGING, ESPECIALLY
SINCE COVID WHERE THEY'RE USED TO BUYING SOMETHING ONLINE. WE
TRAVEL ALL THE TIME AND IF YOU BUY A BOTTLE OF SAY A PARTICULAR SPIRIT IN
LAKE PLACID AND YOU GO HOME, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIND THAT
IN YOUR LIQUOR STORE. IT'S A NICHE BOTTLE THAT YOU WANT TO BUY AND HAVE
IT SHIPPED TO YOU. SO THE POINT IS TO TRY TO GET ENOUGH PEOPLE TO HAVE
AN INTEREST IN THIS PARTICULAR PRODUCT SO THEY CAN GET INTO THE LARGER
THREE- TIERED SYSTEM. SOME OF THEM DON'T WANT TO BE THAT BIG. SOME
WANT TO JUST BE A LOCAL TOURIST ANCHOR IN A LITTLE PLACE, AND OTHERS WOULD
LIKE TO BE ABLE TO AT LEAST BOOST THEIR BUSINESS WITH ONLINE SALES AND
EVENTUALLY SOME -- FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A DISTILLERY HERE IN ALBANY
THAT IS NOW THE WELL VODKA FOR THE YANKEES. THEY'VE GOT A NEW BOTTLE
WITH YANKEE STRIPES ON IT AND IT'S GOTTEN A LOT OF INTEREST. PEOPLE WOULD
LIKE TO BUY ONE AS A GIFT, AND IT MIGHT EVENTUALLY WIND UP IN A LOT OF
STORES, AND THEY MAY WIND UP ACTUALLY GOING OVER THE 75,000 GALLON FOR
ALL WE KNOW. BUT I THINK IT'S A -- I THINK IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO
SUPPORT LOCAL BUSINESS AND LOCAL FARMERS IN A SAFE WAY THAT IT HAS BEEN
PROVEN IN THE PAST.
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MR. RA: THANK YOU, MS. LUPARDO.
MS. LUPARDO: YOU'RE WELCOME.
ACTING SPEAKER BENEDETOO: THANK YOU,
MR. RA.
MR. MORINELLO.
MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD FOR A COUPLE QUESTIONS, PLEASE?
MS. LUPARDO: YES, OF COURSE, JUDGE.
MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. I'VE LISTENED
INTENTLY AND WE KNOW THE PURPOSE IS TO ATTEMPT TO ASSIST OUR SMALL CRAFT
BREWERS.
MS. LUPARDO: NOT BREWERS IF I MIGHT ADD.
MR. MORINELLO: I'M SORRY. DISTILLERS.
MS. LUPARDO: AND CIDERIES AND MEADERIES, TOO.
MR. MORINELLO: CURRENTLY, IS HARD LIQUOR
ALLOWED TO BE SHIPPED WITHOUT THIS BILL, AND I'M TALKING ABOUT SPIRITS.
MS. LUPARDO: YES. LIQUOR STORES CAN SHIP ALL THE
TIME.
MR. MORINELLO: LIQUOR STORES, OKAY. SO THERE IS
A -- A VEHICLE THAT THESE DISTILLERS CAN UTILIZE TO MOVE THEIR PRODUCTS.
MS. LUPARDO: WELL, ONLY IF THEY'RE IN THOSE LIQUOR
STORES, MIND YOU.
MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. BUT WHAT IS THE ISSUE
WITH THEM GOING TO A LIQUOR STORE TO CARRY THEIR PRODUCT?
MS. LUPARDO: THEY'RE NOT BIG ENOUGH. AND
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CERTAINLY IN SMALL PLACES THEY'RE IN THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITY'S LIQUOR
STORES BECAUSE THEY CAN GET IN THE CAR OR IN THEIR TRUCK AND DELIVER
THEM. BUT IN TERMS OF GETTING INTO THE LARGER WHOLESALE SYSTEM, YOU
HAVE TO HAVE VOLUME AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF CAPACITY THAT THEY
DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE AT THE MOMENT. SO THEY'RE JUST NOT IN THE SYSTEMS.
SOME OF THEM ARE, BUT NOT VERY MANY. OR IF THEY ARE, THE LIQUOR STORE
CARRIES ONE OF THEIR PRODUCTS WHEN THEY IN FACT HAVE TEN AT THEIR TASTING
ROOMS.
MR. MORINELLO: NOW, THE VOLUME -- THE
DEFINITION OF A CRAFT DISTILLER IS BASED ON VOLUME; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. LUPARDO: CORRECT.
MR. MORINELLO: SEVENTY-FIVE. SO LET'S -- LET'S GO
TO AN OUT-OF-STATE DISTILLER, OKAY.
MS. LUPARDO: OKAY.
MR. MORINELLO: AND I DO KNOW THIS, THAT JIM
BEAM HAS HIRED LOBBYISTS TO COME INTO NEW YORK TO LOBBY FOR THIS. SO
MY QUESTION IS --
MS. LUPARDO: I'M SORRY, JUDGE. WHAT DID YOU SAY
ABOUT LOBBYISTS COMING INTO THE STATE?
MR. MORINELLO: JIM BEAM HAS -- JIM BEAM
WHICH IS AN OUT-OF-STATE DISTILLER IS UTILIZING LOBBYISTS TO PUSH FOR THIS
BILL LOCALLY WITHIN THE STATE --
MS. LUPARDO: OKAY.
MR. MORINELLO: -- WHICH GIVES ME PAUSE AS TO
WHY WOULD AN OUT-OF-STATE DISTILLER AS BIG AS JIM BEAM WANT TO
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COMMIT. AND SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE PROHIBITION, IF ANY, OF A
SUBSIDIARY IN THEIR OWN STATE CALLING IT A CRAFT DISTILLER?
MS. LUPARDO: SO IF WE GET TO THIS POINT WHERE
WE'RE LOOKING AT RECIPROCITY, THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY WILL LOOK
CLOSELY TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER OUT-OF-STATE DISTILLERY IS GOING TO
SHIP INTO NEW YORK STATE MEETS THE EXACT SAME LICENSE CLASSIFICATION
THAT THEY'RE SHIPPING -- THAT THEY'RE SHIPPING TO. SO IF THEY ARE ONLY A
FARM DISTILLERY, WOULD BE ABLE TO SHIP INTO NEW YORK UNDER THAT FARM
DISTILLERY CLASSIFICATION. YOU'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH 75,000
GALLONS NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE.
MR. MORINELLO: CORRECT.
MS. LUPARDO: BUT JIM BEAM ATTEMPTS TO DO THIS
UNDER THEIR NAME, THEY WOULD BE DISQUALIFIED BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT
ALLOWED TO BE AN A SMALL LICENSE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LARGE COMPANIES
SOMEHOW WANTING TO CREATE LITTLE NICHE OPERATIONS. I'M NOT SURE FOR
WHAT PURPOSE UNLESS THEY WANTED TO DEVELOP A HIGH-END BOURBON OR A
HIGH-END -- HIGH-END SPIRIT FOR SOME REASON AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT
QUIBBLING WITH THEM, IF THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING SMALL BATCH-BASED
LIKE THE REST THEM OF DO.
MR. MORINELLO: WOULD IT BE A FAIR STATEMENT IN
RESPONSE TO YOUR RESPONSE, THE FACT THAT IF THE LOCAL DISTILLERS WANT TO
EXPAND THEIR BASE, WOULDN'T THAT BE THE SAME FOR AN OUT-OF-STATE
DISTILLER TO WANT TO EXPAND THEIR MARKET SHARE?
MS. LUPARDO: I'M NOT -- RUN THAT ONE BY ME AGAIN,
JUDGE. I'M NOT SURE WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THAT.
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MR. MORINELLO: ALL I'M GETTING AT IS THIS: IF JIM
BEAM HAS HIRED LOBBYISTS AND THEY WANT THIS, OKAY, THEN -- AND THERE'S
NO PROHIBITION AGAINST A SUBSIDIARY, OKAY. WHAT WOULD PREVENT THEM
FROM OPENING UP WITH THEIR MONEY AND BACKING A DISTILLER IN THEIR
HOME STATE THAT COULD PRODUCE UP TO 75,000 GALLONS?
MS. LUPARDO: SURE. THEY COULD DO THAT.
MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. AND THEN SHIP IT INTO OUR
STATE, OKAY, WHICH WOULD ALMOST FRUSTRATE WHAT THE PURPOSE IS FOR. THE
PURPOSE OF IS THIS --
MS. LUPARDO: WELL --
MR. MORINELLO: -- I'M SORRY.
MS. LUPARDO: SORRY.
MR. MORINELLO: I UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF THIS
IS TO EXPAND AND HELP OUR SMALL DISTILLERS, DISTILLERIES, OUR FARM
DISTILLERIES; AM I CORRECT?
MS. LUPARDO: YES.
MR. MORINELLO: AND I GUESS WHERE I'M HEADING
MOSTLY IS, I FEEL THERE MIGHT BE BETTER WAYS TO HELP EXPAND THEM THEN
GOING THIS ROUTE FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS, OKAY. AND NUMBER ONE,
COMPETITION. WE TALK ABOUT THE SMALL DISTILLER. WELL, IF YOU HAVE
SOMEONE OUT-OF-STATE THAT HAS RESOURCES, THEY COULD COME IN AND
ALMOST SHUT OUT THE LOCAL DISTILLER THAT WE'RE TRYING TO HELP HERE.
MS. LUPARDO: I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A FREE
MARKET AND WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO PUT A LOT OF TIME AND
ENERGY INTO THEIR CRAFT AND INTO THEIR MICRODISTILLING PURPOSES. FOR
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SOME REASON THEY ARE GOING TO CREATE A BUSINESS IN ANOTHER STATE THAT
WOULD POTENTIALLY COMPETE. OUR GUYS ARE READY TO TAKE THAT ON.
MR. MORINELLO: OKAY.
MS. LUPARDO: THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WANT TO BUY
NEW YORK PRODUCTS BECAUSE NEW YORK HAS THE BEST APPLES. THE STATES
THAT HAVE RECIPROCATING RELATIONSHIPS ON CIDER CAN'T WAIT TO GET THEIR
HANDS ON NEW YORK'S PRODUCTS. WE STAND TO GAIN IN THIS WHOLE THING.
WE'RE THE ONES WITH THE AWARD-WINING BOURBONS AND THE AWARD-
WINNING CIDERS AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOING TO BE A CALL FOR, YOU
KNOW, SOME PRODUCT THAT'S BASED IN NEBRASKA, YOU KNOW, GOOD LUCK
WITH THAT, AND THEN WE CAN -- YOU KNOW, WE CAN SEE HOW OUR GUYS
COMPETE. THEY WELCOME THE COMPETITION BECAUSE THEY THINK THEIR
PRODUCTS STAND UP BECAUSE WE'RE USING NEW YORK FARM -- FARM GOODS
AND -- AND ARE VERY PROUD OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
MR. MORINELLO: I -- I CAN ACCEPT THAT, BUT THE
CONCERNS THAT HAVE COME TO ME -- I'M SORRY. THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE
COME TO ME HAVE BEEN FROM MADD -- STUDENTS AGAINST DRUNK
DRIVING, MOTHERS AGAINST DRUNK DRIVING, THE COUNSELORS THAT DEAL
WITH ALCOHOLISM. AND THE FEAR IS WE KNOW WE HAVE WINE, WE KNOW
THEY CAN DO BEER. WINE AVERAGES ABOUT 18 PERCENT ALCOHOL. BEER,
NORMAL BEER IS 3.5 AND THEN IT CAN GO UP TO 7.
MS. LUPARDO: RIGHT.
MR. MORINELLO: WHEN YOU GET A BOTTLE OF LIQUOR
YOU'RE ADDING 40 -- 40 PERCENT OR 80 PROOF. THE DIFFERENTIAL THERE IF
SOMEBODY UNDER 21 OR THE YOUTH HAVE ACCESS TO IT, THIS IS THE MAIN
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CONCERN FROM THOSE THAT HAVE TO DEAL WITH ALCOHOL FOR YOUTH, THE -- THE
TRAINING AND THE POTENTIAL OF DRUNK DRIVING.
MS. LUPARDO: I -- I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE
SAYING, BUT I MEAN LET'S BE HONEST. I'M SURE THERE'S ONE OR TWO PEOPLE
IN HERE WHO, YOU KNOW, MIGHT HAVE KNOWN SOMEONE WHO WAS AN
UNDERAGED DRINKER OR MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONE YOURSELF BACK IN HIGH
SCHOOL. I CANNOT IMAGINE A YOUTH CONTEMPLATING ORDERING A BOTTLE OF
BOURBON AND HAVING IT DELIVERED TO THEIR PARENT'S HOME WHERE THEY
WOULD HAVE TO SIGN FOR IT. KIDS HAVE NO SHORTAGE OF ACCESS TO -- TO
ALCOHOL, AND CERTAINLY MAILING IT TO YOUR HOME IS PROBABLY THE LAST
METHOD ANYBODY I KNOW WOULD THINK OF TO TRY TO DISGUISE THEIR
UNDERAGED DRINKING. YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD GET SOMEBODY TO GO TO THE
LIQUOR STORE AND BUY IT FOR THEM OR ANY OTHER METHOD. SO I DON'T SEE
THIS AS THE -- THE VEHICLE FOR PROMOTING UNDERAGED DRINKING TO BE
HONEST WITH YOU.
MR. MORINELLO: WELL, THE VEHICLE IS MORE
ACCESSIBILITY. NOW, THERE'S A LIMITATION OF -- AND NOBODY'S GOING TO BUY
AS MUCH AS THE LIMITATION IS --
MS. LUPARDO: NO.
MR. MORINELLO: -- BUT IT'S PER 21-YEAR-OLD. SO IF
YOU HAVE FIVE 21-YEAR-OLDS IN A HOME, EACH OF THEM CAN GO TO THAT
MAXIMUM; AM I NOT CORRECT?
MS. LUPARDO: THIS IS TRUE, BUT KEEP IN MIND. FOR
MOST PEOPLE THEY ARE USING THEIR LOCAL LIQUOR STORE IF THEY'RE GOING TO
BE BUYING THAT MUCH. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE PURCHASES IS THE
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SINGLE BOTTLE OR MAYBE A LARGER AMOUNT THAT WILL BE GIVEN AS GIFTS, BUT
MOSTLY THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO'VE TRIED A PRODUCT AND JUST WANT TO BUY A
BOTTLE OF THIS OR WANT TO BE PART OF A CLUB THAT RECEIVES SOMETHING.
THEY'RE CONNOISSEURS OF A PARTICULAR TYPE OF SPIRIT OR A PARTICULAR CIDER.
I AM NOT SEEING FIVE PEOPLE IN A HOUSEHOLD OVER 21 ORDERING AT THAT
LEVEL OF EXPENSE. IT'S NOT CHEAP SHIPPING A CASE OF SPIRITS, I CAN TELL
YOU THAT. BUT YES, THEY COULD.
MR. MORINELLO: THEY COULD, THANK YOU. THERE
WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE WASHINGTON POST IN THE -- FROM 2020 WHEN THEY
ANALYZED THE CHECK-IN AT THE DELIVERY POINT. AND THE STUDY DETERMINED
THERE WAS AN 80 PERCENT FAILURE OF THE DELIVERY COMPANY TO CHECK PROOF
AT 21 WHEN THEY BROUGHT IT TO THE HOUSE, AND MOST OF THOSE INSTANCES
THEY FOUND THEY JUST LEFT THE CASE AT THE DOORSTEP. AND LET'S NOT GO
(INAUDIBLE), LET'S GO TO A SMALL CASE, OKAY. JUST ONE -- ONE CASE OF THE
PRODUCT AND WE'LL BRING IT DOWN TO THE LEVEL IT SHOULD BE, OKAY, THAT
WE'RE TALKING AND THAT'S THE KIND OF... SO BECAUSE OF THE INCREASE IN
VOLUME AND THE POTENTIAL FOR NOT SIGNING AT THE LOCATION, WHAT
CONSIDERATIONS IS THERE FOR THAT, OKAY, BECAUSE IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING
THERE'S NO LIABILITY ON THAT SHIP -- ON THE DELIVERY COMPANY AND THEY'RE
NOT UNDER THE DRAM SHOP DEFINITION.
MS. LUPARDO: I UNDERSTAND YOUR WORRY. I'VE GOT
THAT PART, BUT WE'VE ONLY GOT A COUPLE OF WAYS WE CAN COME AT THIS.
WE CAN DO BETTER AT THAT IF THAT IS IN FACT THE CASE, ALTHOUGH THE STATE
LIQUOR AUTHORITY ASSURES ME THAT THAT IS NOT A WIDESPREAD ISSUE HERE.
WE CAN EITHER ADDRESS THAT ISSUE OR WE CAN TAKE AWAY SHIPPING ALL
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TOGETHER, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT LIQUOR STORE SHIPPING, WINE SHIPPING, BEER
IS NOW SHIPPING IF THEY HAVE A KITCHEN ASSOCIATED WITH THEIR BREWERY.
SO WE'VE EITHER GOT TO MAKE PARITY AND FAIRNESS ACROSS THESE PRODUCT
LINES OR WE'VE GOT TO REALLY DIG INTO WHETHER WE HAVE A PROBLEM HERE IN
NEW YORK STATE AND DO BETTER WITH OUR COMMON CARRIERS. WE DON'T
SEE THERE IS A PROBLEM HERE IN NEW YORK STATE, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU
THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY IS VERY COMMITTED TO MAKING SURE THIS GOES
RIGHT.
MR. MORINELLO: VERY GOOD. THAT'S ALL. THANK
YOU FOR BEING SO KIND WITH YOUR ANSWERS.
MS. LUPARDO: AS ALWAYS, JUDGE.
MR. MORINELLO: AND IT WAS MORE OF A DISCUSSION
AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
MS. LUPARDO: LIKEWISE.
MR. MORINELLO: ALL RIGHT, BECAUSE WE HAVE TWO
SIDES. WE WANT TO HELP THE SMALL DISTILLERS AND THE FARMS, BUT THEN WE
HAVE THOSE THAT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE ALCOHOL AND THE ALCOHOLISM AND
THE KIDS, AND WITH A HIGHER VOLUME OF PRODUCT THERE IS SOME CONCERN
OUT THERE HAVING IT ACCESSIBLE. THE SECOND IS THE THREE TIER SYSTEM.
EVEN THOUGH IN A MINOR WAY YOU CAN SAY IT'S THE THREE TIER, BUT I'M
TALKING ABOUT THE THREE TIER THAT EMPLOYS THOUSANDS OF WORKERS,
THOUSANDS OF TEAMSTERS, THEY PAY TAXES TO THIS STATE, THEY HAVE
HIGHWAY TAXES THAT THEY PAY TO THIS STATE AND THAT THE FEAR IS THAT THIS
MAY BE THE BEGINNING OF THE BREAKING INTO AND THE END OF A SYSTEM THAT
HAS RESPONSIBILITY. THEY HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THE PRODUCT, THEY HAVE TO
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TAKE BACK BAD PRODUCT SO --
MS. LUPARDO: I GOTCHA.
MR. MORINELLO: AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK
THAT IF WE SEE A PROBLEM THAT I'M SURE WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT.
MS. LUPARDO: IF I JUST COULD ADD ONE MORE THING
--
MR. MORINELLO: SURE.
MS. LUPARDO: -- WHEN YOU MENTIONED THE
TEAMSTERS. OUR DISTILLERS GUILD, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS AN EXCLUSIVE
AGREEMENT WITH UPS, WHICH IS A FULLY TEAMSTER ORGANIZATION. AND
THEY DO THAT ON PURPOSE BECAUSE THEY ARE -- THEY WANT TO SUPPORT UNION
JOBS AND -- AND OUR TEAMSTERS. SO THAT GROUP OF TEAMSTERS WHO WORK
FOR UPS ARE PRETTY EXCITED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THEY SEE THE OPPORTUNITY
FOR -- FOR MORE BUSINESSES.
MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING MORE OF
A CONVERSATION --
MS. LUPARDO: OF COURSE.
MR. MORINELLO: -- RATHER THAN A BACK AND FORTH
DEBATE BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS A MORE OF A CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED ON
THIS CONCEPT RATHER THAN --
MS. LUPARDO: LIKEWISE.
MR. MORINELLO: AND I DO APPRECIATE THE
SPONSOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ACTING SPEAKER BENEDETTO: THANK YOU,
MR. MORINELLO.
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MR. SLATER.
MR. SLATER: MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD
JUST FOR A FEW SHORT QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER BENEDETTO: WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
MS. LUPARDO: ABSOLUTELY.
MR. SLATER: THANK YOU SO MUCH. I JUST WANTED TO
PIGGYBACK OFF OF WHAT MY COLLEAGUE WAS JUST ASKING IN REGARDS TO THE
THREE-TIERED SYSTEM. AND SO WE'RE IN AGREEMENT THAT THEY'RE CURRENTLY
IS A THREE-TIER SYSTEM. DO WE KNOW HOW THIS PROPOSAL WILL IMPACT THAT
THREE-TIER SYSTEM?
MS. LUPARDO: IT WON'T IMPACT THAT THREE-TIERED
SYSTEM WHATSOEVER. THE IDEA IS IF THESE COMPANIES GET LARGE ENOUGH
THEY CAN GRADUATE INTO THE THREE-TIER SYSTEM. THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO
PARTICIPATE IN THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO SMALL. THEY'RE NOT ON SHELVES,
SOME OF THEM ARE SELF-DISTRIBUTING AND THEY'RE DOING QUITE FINE WITH
THAT. MANY -- MANY DON'T WANT TO GET MUCH BIGGER. THEY LIKE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO SEND THEIR -- THEIR PRODUCTS OUT TO THOSE WHO WANT IT.
FOR EXAMPLE, A LOCAL COMPANY JUST WON A LARGE AWARD AND 80 PERCENT
OF HER PHONE CALLS ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE CONNOISSEURS WHO'D LIKE TO JUST
RECEIVE ONE BOTTLE TO TRY AS PART OF THEIR, YOU KNOW, TO PUT ON THEIR BAR
AND THEY'RE UNABLE TO. SO THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT'S NOT INVOLVED
WITH THE THREE-TIERED SYSTEM WHATSOEVER. WE HONOR THE THREE-TIERED
SYSTEM AND -- AND -- AND UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF IT BUT NOT WHEN IT
COMES TO THIS LEVEL OF PRODUCTION.
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MR. SLATER: SO THEN IT REALLY DOESN'T POSE A THREAT
TO THE THREE-TIER SYSTEM. IT ACTUALLY EMBRACES AND EXPANDS IT IS WHAT --
WHAT YOUR GOAL IS.
MS. LUPARDO: IT DOES -- IT -- IT PROVIDES AN
OPPORTUNITY TO EVENTUALLY BECOME PART OF THAT.
MR. SLATER: UNDERSTOOD.
MS. LUPARDO: BUT THEY CAN'T EVEN BECOME -- THEY
COULDN'T EVEN LOOK AT THAT. SOME OF THEM DON'T WANT TO BE THAT BIG, BUT
SOME OF THEM HAVE INSIGHTS SET ON SOMETHING LARGER. THEY GET THE
PLACE THAT THEY -- THE ROLE THAT THEY'RE PLAYING, BUT AT THIS MOMENT THEY
DON'T HAVE MUCH SHELF SPACE.
MR. SLATER: UNDERSTOOD. I APPRECIATE THAT.
THANK YOU. AND IT SEEMS PRETTY OBVIOUS TO ME THAT YOU'VE SPENT A
GREAT DEAL OF TIME, AND I KNOW HOW COMPLICATED THE -- THE SYSTEM CAN
BE. HAS THERE BEEN ANY STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE TO UNDERSTAND THE
-- THE IMPACT OVERALL ECONOMICALLY? YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
STANDING AT A THREE-TIERED SYSTEM, HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT THAT TO TAKE?
MS. LUPARDO: WELL, I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
175 DISTILLERS. WE'VE LOST 20 IN THE LAST YEAR BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T HAD
THIS OPPORTUNITY. FIFTY PERCENT OF THEM ARE AT RISK OF CLOSURE BECAUSE
THE CONSUMERS' BEHAVIORS HAVE CHANGED. THEY'RE ESTIMATING, I DON'T
HAVE THE DOLLAR FIGURES IN FRONT OF ME, SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE IN STATE
SALES TAX FROM OUT-OF-STATE BUYERS WHO WANT TO PURCHASE NEW YORK
STATE'S AWARD-WINNING PRODUCTS. SO WE DO SEE A VALUE TO THE STATE IN
TERMS OF SALES TAXES. WE SEE FAR MORE SHIPMENT GOING OUT OF THE STATE
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THAN GOING IN. AND AS FAR AS THE THREE-TIER SYSTEM, I'M NOT SURE I COULD
PROJECT HOW MANY WOULD EVENTUALLY WIND UP IN THAT SYSTEM OR WHAT
THAT MIGHT MEAN. I'M MORE INTERESTED IN HOW IT'S GOING TO PROTECT OUR
FARMERS AND THE CROPS THAT THEY'RE SELLING AND HOW WE CAN MAKE SURE
THEY DON'T GO OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THIS OPTION.
MR. SLATER: AND I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT
AND I RECOGNIZE THAT. BUT THERE'S ALSO THE ISSUE OF BALANCING PROTECTION
OF OUR FARMERS WITH THE PROTECTION OF EXISTING SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS
AND EMPLOYEES. SO HAVE YOU SPENT TIME AND DO YOU HAVE ANY DATA THAT
SHOWS HOW WE CAN KIND OF MEET THAT MIDDLE GROUND OF ALLOWING OUR
FARMERS TO GROW AND THRIVE BUT ALSO PROTECTING THE EXISTING SMALL
BUSINESS OWNERS WHO INVESTED CONSIDERABLE DOLLARS INTO THEIR EXISTING
STORES?
MS. LUPARDO: WHICH SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS ARE
YOU WORRIED ABOUT BEING AT RISK HERE?
MR. SLATER: WELL, I THINK THERE'S CONSIDERABLE
CONCERN REGARDING THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE WITH
DISTRIBUTION SPECIFICALLY WITH OUR LIQUOR STORES. SO IF YOU'RE CUTTING OUT
THE LIQUOR STORE DISTRIBUTION, THERE SEEMS TO BE CONCERN FROM THAT
INDUSTRY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ECONOMICALLY AND
UNABLE TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE AT THE SAME LEVEL THAT THEY CURRENTLY
HAVE. UNLESS YOU HAVE DATA THAT YOU CAN SHARE WITH ME THAT COUNTERS
THAT.
MS. LUPARDO: WELL, THE -- THE OBVIOUS DATA IS THAT
THE PRODUCTS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT IN LIQUOR STORES. THAT'S THE BIG
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DATA. I GUESS THE DATA WOULD BE ZERO IMPACT BECAUSE -- WELL, NOT ZERO,
BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT 95 PERCENT OF THE PRODUCTS AREN'T ON
LIQUOR STORE SHELVES. IF YOU GO INTO A LIQUOR STORE AND YOU SAY WHERE
ARE THE NEW YORK SPIRITS, THEY'LL SAY WELL, WE'VE GOT A FEW BOTTLES OF
GIN AND A FEW BOTTLES OF VODKA BUT THEY'RE SPREAD AROUND, BUT THERE'S NO
HUGE SECTION IN THE STORE LIKE YOU MIGHT HAVE WITH NEW YORK WINE
NOW. SO THERE'S NOT -- IT'S CURIOUS THAT THEY'RE SAYING THIS WHEN THEY
CARRY SO FEW OF THE PRODUCTS.
MR. SLATER: AND IS THAT CHOICE BY THE INDIVIDUAL
STOREOWNER NOT TO CARRY AN EXTENSIVE NEW YORK SPIRITS COLLECTION?
MS. LUPARDO: NO. IT'S BECAUSE THE DISTILLERIES
AREN'T THAT BIG. THEY'VE GOT THIS LIMIT OF WHAT THEY CAN -- CAN -- CAN
PRODUCE. MOST OF THEM ARE SMALL TOURIST ANCHORS. THAT'S WHY THE
HOSPITALITY ASSOCIATION, TOURISM INDUSTRY IS VERY, VERY PROTECTIVE OF
THEM. PEOPLE COME TO TOWN TO VISIT THEM. THEY WANT THEM TO STAY
ALIVE. IT'S THIS ONE LITTLE ABILITY TO SEND THAT TOURIST THAT BOTTLE OR TO HELP
A WEDDING OR A CORPORATE -- CORPORATION LOCALLY WHO WOULD LIKE TO -- TO
RECEIVE SOME OF THESE THINGS IN THE MAIL. THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT
WOULD KEEP THEM AFLOAT AND TO POTENTIALLY HELP THEM GROW INTO THIS
LARGER SYSTEM, BUT THERE'S JUST NOT -- THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH VOLUME,
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH CAPACITY, THEY DON'T HAVE THE MARKETING DOLLARS.
THEY'RE JUST NOT SET UP FOR THIS TYPE OF THING.
MR. SLATER: I APPRECIATE THAT. SO JUST TO MAKE
SURE I'M CLEAR, WHAT YOU'RE ENVISIONING AND WHAT WE BELIEVE IS GOING
TO HAPPEN HERE IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO MEET THIS BALANCE OF
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ALLOWING OUR FARMS TO THRIVE IN A -- IN A NEW SECTOR OR EXPAND IN A NEW
SECTOR. THEY'LL HAVE MINIMAL, IF NOT ANY, IMPACT ON THE EXISTING
RETAILERS THROUGHOUT NEW YORK STATE. THAT'S -- THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE
TELLING US TODAY.
MS. LUPARDO: CORRECT.
MR. SLATER: OKAY.
MS. LUPARDO: WE WOULD HATE TO SEE OUR FARMERS
WHO ARE PROVIDING SO MUCH -- SO MANY OF THESE PRODUCTS TO LOSE OUT,
BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW THEY'RE -- THEY'RE STRUGGLING IN A LOT OF WAYS AND
WE JUST WANT TO PROTECT THIS, BUT ALSO PROTECT THESE SMALL BUSINESSES IN
-- IN OUR COMMUNITIES --
MR. SLATER: AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
MS. LUPARDO: COME OFF THE HIGHWAY TO VISIT THESE
PLACES.
MR. SLATER: FANTASTIC, THANK YOU. AND ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT I'M ALWAYS CURIOUS ABOUT, I LIVE IN A BORDER DISTRICT. FIVE
MINUTES FROM MY DISTRICT OFFICE IS DANBURY, CONNECTICUT. SO ARE THE
POLICIES THAT WE'RE IMPLEMENTING HERE ON PAR WITH WHAT SOME OF THE
OTHER STATES SURROUNDING NEW YORK HAVE ALREADY IMPLEMENTED?
MS. LUPARDO: THERE ARE ONLY ABOUT A DOZEN STATES
THAT HAVE RECIPROCITY AND I DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF THOSE IN ANYWHERE NEAR
US ARE ONE OF THEM. I KNOW THERE'S ARIZONA AND THERE'S SOUTH DAKOTA
OR NORTH DAKOTA, KENTUCKY IS ONE, BUT DEFINITELY NOT CONNECTICUT, OR
PENNSYLVANIA, OR NEW JERSEY, FOR THAT MATTER.
MR. SLATER: AND SO WHEN YOU SAY RECIPROCITY,
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WHAT DO -- WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? SO WE'RE SAYING THAT THE --
MS. LUPARDO: SIMILAR LICENSE TYPES.
MR. SLATER: I'M SORRY?
MS. LUPARDO: SIMILAR CLASSIFICATION OF LICENSES.
MR. SLATER: AND SO CONNECTICUT, TO YOUR
KNOWLEDGE, DOES NOT HAVE THAT IN PLACE. SO CONNECTICUT CANNOT MAIL
WINE OR LIQUOR TO THEIR CONSUMERS?
MS. LUPARDO: I DON'T KNOW ABOUT WINE BECAUSE
WINE IS WAY MORE ACCESSIBLE. WE CAN HAVE CALIFORNIA WINE SHIPPED TO
US BECAUSE WE HAVE A RECIPROCAL RELATIONSHIP AROUND THAT.
MR. SLATER: SPECIFICALLY LIQUOR, THEN, I SUPPOSE,
RIGHT?
MS. LUPARDO: I'M SORRY?
MR. SLATER: SPECIFICALLY LIQUOR, THEN, TO YOUR
KNOWLEDGE, CONNECTICUT DOESN'T ALLOW THAT AT THIS POINT IN TIME?
MS. LUPARDO: CORRECT.
MR. SLATER: OKAY. I APPRECIATE THAT. AND IN
REGARDS TO THE MECHANISM FOR TAX COLLECTION, ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES
THAT I'VE HEARD RELATES TO HOW WE PLAN ON MAKING SURE THAT THE CORRECT
TAX REVENUE COLLECTION IS EXECUTED. DOES YOUR BILL SPEAK TO THAT AT ALL?
MS. LUPARDO: IT DOES. AND IT WOULD BE LIKE ANY
OTHER BUSINESS, WE'D HAVE TO REGISTER WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION
AND FINANCE AND FOLLOW ALL THE SAME RULES THAT THEY'RE CURRENTLY
FOLLOWING. ONLY NOW IT WOULD HAVE TO DO WITH THIS.
MR. SLATER: FANTASTIC. I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK
YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER BENEDETTO: THANK YOU,
MR. SLATER.
MR. TAGUE.
MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD THE
CHAIRWOMAN YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?
MS. LUPARDO: I WILL YIELD TO THE RANKER.
MR. TAGUE: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK YOU
FOR BRINGING THIS BILL FORWARD. IT'S A LONG TIME COMING, AND I THINK THAT
SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND EXACTLY ABOUT THIS BILL.
AND NUMBER ONE, I THINK THAT THIS BILL IS MIRRORED KIND OF AFTER SOME OF
THE OTHER PROGRAMS THAT WE'VE DONE WITH FARM-TO-TABLE PROGRAMS
ACROSS NEW YORK STATE THAT HAVE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL. WOULD YOU SAY
THAT THAT'S AN ACCURATE STATEMENT?
MS. LUPARDO: I WOULD NOT ARGUE WITH YOU ON THAT,
MR. TAGUE.
MR. TAGUE: AND THAT THIS IS MORE OF A NICHE
BUSINESS, THIS ISN'T SOMEBODY THAT IS GONNA GO OUT AND PRODUCE GALLONS
AND GALLONS AND GALLONS IN THEIR DISTILLERY TO SEND -- FOR PEOPLE TO COME
IN. THIS IS A PLACE WHERE -- THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE TOURISTS COME IN --
MS. LUPARDO: YES.
MR. TAGUE: -- AND THEY GO TO YOUR SPECIALTY SHOP
AND THEY LEAVE THERE AND THEY GO HOME AND THEY LIKE THE BOTTLE THAT
THEY BOUGHT AND DECIDED THAT THEY LIKED THAT SO MUCH THAT THEY WANT TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ORDER ANOTHER ONE, BUT NOW INSTEAD OF THEM HAVING TO DRIVE 2- OR 300
MILES BACK INTO NEW YORK, NOW THEY CAN HAVE IT DIRECTLY SHIPPED TO
THEIR PLACE. OR IF THEY COME TO THE SCHOHARIE VALLEY WHERE I'M FROM,
AND THEY GO TO -- GO TO ONE OF THE FARMS IN THE VALLEY THAT ARE DOING
DISTILLERY NOW AND THEY LIVE IN BUFFALO. NOW THEY CAN HAVE THAT BOTTLE
THAT THEY LIKE SHIPPED TO BUFFALO; AM I CORRECT?
MS. LUPARDO: ABSOLUTELY. IF THEY'RE IN -- IF
THEY'RE IN ANOTHER STATE, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A STATE THAT HAS A
RECIPROCATING RELATIONSHIP WITH NEW YORK, AND MANY OF THEM DO NOT.
MR. TAGUE: RIGHT. AND THIS IS ALSO A SITUATION --
AND WE HAD MENTIONED IT EARLIER, THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE IT'S VERY CLOSE
TO OUR FARM-TO-TABLE STUFF, BUT THIS HAS ALSO BEEN A DIVERSIFICATION FOR A
LOT OF OUR FARMERS THAT ARE GROWING OTHER CROPS THAT HAD TO FIND OTHER --
OTHER MEANS OF INCOME FOR THEIR FARM. YOU KNOW, I KNOW IN MY
DISTRICT ONE OF MY FARMERS THAT HAS BEEN IN THE PRODUCE BUSINESS FOR
LONGER THAN I'VE BEEN ALIVE, JUST IN THE LAST FEW YEARS THEY NOW MAKE
VODKA OUT OF SOME OF THEIR POTATO PRODUCTS. SO IS -- AM I -- AM I
ACCURATE WITH SAYING THAT THAT'S TAKING PLACE ALL ACROSS NEW YORK
STATE?
MS. LUPARDO: ALL ACROSS THE STATE. WE USED TO
HAVE 200, WE'VE LOST 20 AND WE WANT TO MAINTAIN THE ONES THAT WE
HAVE, YES.
MR. TAGUE: SO THIS GIVES -- TO ME, TO SUM IT UP,
THIS GIVES AN OPPORTUNITY TO OUR FARMERS OR THOSE THAT HAVE A NICHE FOR
THE DISTILLING OR FOR CIDER, FOR THEM TO NOW BE ABLE TO BOTTLE THEIR
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PRODUCT AND DIRECTLY SHIP IT TO CUSTOMERS THAT ARE FOND OF THEIR -- OF
THEIR PRODUCT. ANYBODY CAN GO TO THE -- ANYBODY CAN GO TO THE LIQUOR
STORE AND GET A BOTTLE OF JACK DANIELS.
MS. LUPARDO: AND THEY STILL WILL.
MR. TAGUE: THAT'S RIGHT. BUT IF YOU LIKE THAT FARM
THAT YOU WENT TO WHEN YOU TOOK A LITTLE VACATION OR TWO DAYS TO VISIT,
AND YOU ENJOYED WHAT YOU GOT THERE, NOW IF YOU DON'T GET THE
OPPORTUNITY TO DRIVE BACK THERE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW BUT YOU WANT
ANOTHER BOTTLE YOU CAN HAVE IT DIRECTLY SHIPPED TO YOU, CORRECT?
MS. LUPARDO: CORRECT. BUT WHAT'S EVEN BETTER IS
THAT BECAUSE NEW YORK'S PRODUCERS ARE WINNING SO MANY AWARDS,
THOSE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T EVEN GONE TO THE PLACE WILL ORDER
ONE BECAUSE THEY WANT TO TRY IT AS PART OF THEIR NICHE.
MR. TAGUE: WELL, YOU KNOW, AND I'LL -- I'LL SUM IT
UP HERE AND I --
MS. LUPARDO: YOU'RE HELPING ME; YOU'RE HELPING
ME, THOUGH, PLEASE GO ON.
MR. TAGUE: I THINK I SAID IT YESTERDAY IN ANOTHER
DEBATE HAVING TO DO WITH AGRICULTURE, WE'RE SO LUCKY IN NEW YORK
STATE. WE HAVE FOUR DIFFERENT UNIQUE GROWING SEASONS. WE HAVE THE
GREATEST FARMERS IN THE WORLD RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK, WE HAVE THE BEST
QUALITY CONTROL OF AGRICULTURE RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK, WE HAVE THE BEST
AGRICULTURAL EDUCATION RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK WITH AT LEAST FOUR OR FIVE
OF OUR SUNY AND CORNELL. NEW YORK STATE SHOULD BE LEADING NOT JUST
AMERICA, BUT THE WORLD IN AGRICULTURE, AND I BELIEVE THAT THIS RIGHT HERE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
IS THE BEGINNING OF THAT, ALONG WITH OTHER PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE DONE
IN THE LAST TEN YEARS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. I COMMEND YOU ON THIS
BILL. I URGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO SUPPORT THIS BILL, AND LET'S KEEP
MOVING FORWARD WITH OUR AGRICULTURE IN NEW YORK STATE. THANK YOU,
CHAIRWOMAN.
MS. LUPARDO: THANK YOU, MR. TAGUE.
ACTING SPEAKER BENEDETTO: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER BENEDETTO: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. NOVAKHOV TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE, SIR.
MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SO, IT IS PROBABLY NOT A PERFECT BILL, RIGHT, AND I AGREE
WITH MY COLLEAGUES WITH THE COMMENTS, MANY COMMENTS OF MY
COLLEAGUES, BUT IT IS A NECESSARY BILL AND I'LL TRY TO EXPLAIN WHY. SO, I
WALK INTO MY NEIGHBORHOOD LIQUOR STORE, DO I SEE ANY PRODUCTS FROM
THE SMALL DISTILLERIES? ABSOLUTELY NOT. AND -- AND -- BUT IF I'M LUCKY
ENOUGH TO SEE THOSE, THEY WILL BE IN THE FAR CORNER IN THE FAR SHELF. SO
THE ONLY WAY TO CONNECT THE CONSUMERS AND THE SMALL DISTILLERIES IS TO
CONNECT THEM VIA DIRECT ORDERING ONLINE. SO -- AND I'VE TALKED TO THEIR
CONSUMERS, THEY'RE -- THEY'RE MISSING THE PRODUCTS, THEY WANT THE
PRODUCTS. THEY WANT MORE UNIQUE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, THEY -- THEY
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WANT THOSE PRODUCTS. I SPOKE WITH THE DISTILLERIES. THEY WANT TO, YOU
KNOW, THE NEW CUSTOMERS, THEY NEED THE NEW CUSTOMERS TO SURVIVE.
AND IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT THAT THEIR LIQUOR STORES ARE NOT BUYING THESE
PRODUCTS. I DON'T KNOW, AT LEAST -- I -- I SAW A FEW IN -- IN -- HERE
AROUND ALBANY, BUT NOT IN MY DISTRICT, NOT IN BROOKLYN.
SO I THINK THIS IS A VERY NECESSARY BILL, AND I BELIEVE
THERE, YOU KNOW, COULD BE AMENDMENTS TO THE BILL TO MAKE IT PERFECT,
BUT I COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I THINK
IT'S A GREAT BILL AND I'M -- THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER BENEDETTO: THANK YOU, SIR.
HOW DO YOU VOTE?
MR. NOVAKHOV: I VOTE YES.
ACTING SPEAKER BENEDETTO: IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHDRAWING THE ROLL
CALL AND ON A MOTION BY MS. LUPARDO, THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED --
SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE BILL IS PASSED.
(APPLAUSE)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU
COULD HAVE THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE GO IMMEDIATELY TO THE SPEAKER'S
CONFERENCE ROOM FOR THE PURPOSES OF A MEETING.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MAJORITY CONFERENCE
ROOM -- SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY.
WE WILL STAND AT EASE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I'M SURE
YOU'RE GONNA PUT US AT EASE AS A RESULT OF US GOING TO CONFERENCE.
THANK YOU, SIR.
(WHEREUPON, AT 6:48 P.M., THE ASSEMBLY STOOD AT
EASE.)
* * * * *
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME
TO ORDER.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: EXCUSE ME.
EXCUSE ME, SIR, BUT COULD YOU CALL THE WAYS AND
MEANS TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. WAYS AND
MEANS, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY, PLEASE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: WE'RE GOING TO WORK
WHERE WE LEFT OFF WITH MEMBER LUPARDO'S BILL -- I'M SORRY, MEMBER
WALLACE'S BILL, NO. -- RULES REPORT NO. 265, IT'S ON PAGE 8 --
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: -- BY MS. WALLACE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY, MA'AM.
PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 265, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09230-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 20 -- 265, WALLACE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE BANKING LAW, IN
RELATION TO ESTABLISHING MULTIPLE-PERSON ACCOUNTS; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN
PROVISIONS OF SUCH LAW RELATING THERETO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
WALLACE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
AND, MS. WALLACE, AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.
MS. WALLACE: THIS LEGISLATION AMENDS THE
BANKING LAW WITH REGARD TO MULTIPLE-PERSON ACCOUNTS AT
STATE-CHARTERED BANKS AND CREDIT UNIONS. THE BILL UPDATES NEW YORK'S
ANTIQUATED JOINT ACCOUNTS LAW TO ELIMINATE THE MOIETY RULE AND
REPLACES IT WITH THE NET CONTRIBUTION RULE, WHICH IS FOLLOWED BY THE VAST
MAJORITY OF STATES. IT REQUIRES THAT BANKS PROVIDE ALL ACCOUNTS WITH TWO
OR MORE PERSONS WITH A SIGNATURE CARD THAT REQUIRES THE ACCOUNT OWNER
TO CLEARLY ARTICULATE WHO OWNS THE ACCOUNT, WHETHER IT -- WHETHER
THERE'S ANY AUTHORIZED SIGNER ON THE ACCOUNT, AND HOW THE FUNDS SHOULD
BE DISTRIBUTED UPON THE DEATH OF AN ACCOUNT OWNER. IT SETS FORTH THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SPECIFIC LANGUAGE OF THE SIGNATURE CARD FORM, AND IT CLARIFIES THE
OWNERSHIP RIGHTS AND LIABILITY OF THE BANK UNDER THE NEW LAW.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. CURRAN.
MR. CURRAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. CURRAN: I APPRECIATE IT. AND, LISTEN, NOBODY
WANTS TO HEAR ME OR YOU TALK TONIGHT, SO I'M GONNA TRY TO MAKE THIS AS
QUICK AS POSSIBLE. BUT LET ME JUST ASK YOU, THE INTENT BEHIND THIS BILL.
IT REALLY COMES OUT OF THE DISTRIBUTION OF ASSETS WHEN A PERSON DIES,
AND I BELIEVE THE SURROGATE'S JUDGES WERE UP HERE ABOUT A YEAR AGO
PUSHING A VERSION OF THIS BILL. BUT THAT -- THAT WAS REALLY THE MAIN PUSH
BEHIND GOING FORWARD WITH BILL; IS THAT -- IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: YES. SO, MOST PEOPLE DO NOT
REALIZE THAT UNDER EXISTING LAW IN NEW YORK STATE -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE
HEARD OF A LOT OF SITUATIONS WHERE YOU -- WHERE THERE'S AN ELDERLY
PERSON, MAYBE THEY PUT A COUSIN OR A NEIGHBOR OR A RELATIVE, OR MAYBE
EVEN ONE OF THE SIBLINGS, BUT NOT ALL THE KIDS, ON THE ACCOUNT. AND
UNDER NEW YORK'S LAW, AUTOMATICALLY, THAT HALF OF THE AMOUNT OF
MONEY IN THAT ACCOUNT IS IRREVOCABLY GIFTED TO THAT PERSON YOU'VE ADDED
TO THE ACCOUNT. AND THEN AUTOMATICALLY -- UNLESS YOU KNOW TO CHECK
OTHERWISE, WHEN THE OWNER DIES, THE PERSON YOU PUT ON THE ACCOUNT
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BASICALLY INHERITS THE ENTIRE ACCOUNT. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE -- A LOT OF
ELDERLY PEOPLE, IN PARTICULAR, DON'T REALIZE THIS AND THEY WIND UP LOSING
THEIR, YOU KNOW, ENTIRE ESTATE.
MR. CURRAN: RIGHT. AND I -- I ACTUALLY -- AND
YOU'RE RIGHT. LISTEN, WHEN WE FIRST -- WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS BILL
FOR THE LAST TWO DAYS, AND THERE -- YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, THERE IS A
PROBLEM. AS -- AS A FORMER PUBLIC ADMINISTRATOR OF NASSAU COUNTY,
THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH REGARDS TO WHAT COULD HAPPEN TO ASSETS ONCE A
PERSON DIES. AND I THINK THAT THE GOAL OF THIS BILL IS ABSOLUTELY NEEDED,
I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT IN THAT. IT'S JUST -- MY CONCERNS ARE HOW YOU GO
ABOUT IT. AND WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO THERE WITH REGARDS TO THE
FUNDS TRANSFERRING OVER TO THE OTHER JOINT ACCOUNT HOLDER IS A
PRESUMPTION OF SURVIVORSHIP IN NEW YORK STATE. SO WE'LL GET TO THAT IN
A SECOND. BUT LET ME, AGAIN, IN -- IN -- FOR THE HOPE OF BEING BRIEF
TONIGHT, SO I'M JUST GONNA ASK YOU, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. A
PERSON WALKS INTO A BANK WITH WHOEVER, THEIR -- THEIR SPOUSE, THEIR
DAUGHTER, THEIR SON, AND THEY WANT TO OPEN A JOINT ACCOUNT.
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. CURRAN: AND THEY GO INTO THE BANK AND THEY
SAY THEY WANT TO OPEN A JOINT ACCOUNT AND THEY MIGHT DO IT FOR A VARIETY
OF REASONS, AND THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS TO DO IT. BANKS DO NOT OFFER
CONVENIENCE ACCOUNTS, AND YOU ARE -- WE SPOKE ABOUT THAT AND YOU'RE
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. HERE IN NEW YORK STATE THEY DON'T, AND A
CONVENIENCE ACCOUNT FOR EVERYBODY IS AN ACCOUNT THAT WHERE THERE IS
AN ADDITIONAL PERSON ON THE ACCOUNT TO SIGN FOR CHECKS OR BILLS, TO TAKE
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CARE OF A PERSON WHO MAY BE ELDERLY AND CAN'T DO IT THEMSELVES. SO
THIS -- UNDER THIS LAW, THAT WOULD ACTUALLY DEAL WITH A VERSION OF THAT, IT
KIND OF BACKDOORS IT A LITTLE, BUT WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A SECOND. BUT
WHEN YOU GO INTO THE -- TO THE BANK, YOU -- YOU -- YOU'RE NOT OFFERED A
CONVENIENCE ACCOUNT, BUT YOU HAVE TO FILL OUT A -- YOU HAVE TO FILL OUT A
CARD THAT WILL LIST BOTH OWNERS. AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE TOLD AT THAT
TIME TO SEEK, YOU KNOW, LEGAL ADVICE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT A JOINT
ACCOUNT IS GOOD, OR APPRISED OF WHAT COULD HAPPEN -- AND YOU SAID IT
YOURSELF, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT -- UNDER A RULE HERE IN NEW YORK
STATE, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE ENTITLED TO 50 PERCENT. THAT OTHER OWNER OF
THAT ACCOUNT, REGARDLESS OF ONE OWNER, IT'S A $10,000 ACCOUNT, THAT ONE
OWNER PUTS IN ALL $10,000, THAT OTHER OWNER IS ENTITLED TO 5,000 OF THAT
AUTOMATICALLY, AND THAT -- AND THAT IS A RULE HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.
BUT THEN AS YOU SAID, THE PRESUMPTION OF SURVIVORSHIP IS THAT IF THAT
PERSON WHO PUT IN THAT $10,000 PASSES AWAY, THEN ALL OF THAT $10,000
AUTOMATICALLY GOES TO THAT OTHER HOLDER, THAT JOINT ACCOUNT HOLDER. AND
UNDER A LOT OF CIRCUMSTANCES, ESPECIALLY WHEN REGARDS TO THE
ADMINISTRATION OF THE PROBATING OF AN ESTATE, THAT CAUSES A LOT OF
PROBLEMS. AND I -- AND AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, I CAN'T STRESS IT ENOUGH, I
THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH, WE HAVE
TO FIGURE OUT A SOLUTION TO IT. BUT UNDER YOUR BILL -- AND -- AND A
PERSON, THEY OPEN THE ACCOUNT AND, LIKE I SAID, WHETHER OR NOT THEY
WERE TOLD OR NOT ABOUT THE LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS, THAT'S -- THAT IS IN
DISPUTE DEPENDING ON WHO YOU TALK TO. BUT UNDER THIS BILL, UNDER YOUR
BILL, TWO PEOPLE WALK INTO A BANK, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN?
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MS. WALLACE: WELL, WHAT THEY WOULD NEED TO DO
IS THEY WOULD GET THIS FORM THAT WE HAVE CLEARLY OUTLINED IN LAW WHICH
ARTICULATES WHAT THEIR DIFFERENT CHOICES ARE, RIGHT? AND THIS FORM IS
REALLY DRAWN FROM THE UNIFORM PROBATE CODE WHICH WAS ALSO
ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. SIMILAR -- OTHER STATES HAVE ALSO A
VERSION OF THIS, I THINK WE'VE TRIED TO EVEN CLARIFY IT BEYOND THOSE
FORMS. SO I THINK OUR FORM, OF COURSE, IS -- IS VERY CLEAR. IT GIVES THE
PERSON WHO'S AT THE BANK, YOU KNOW, OPTIONS AND TRIES TO ARTICULATE IN
PLAIN ENGLISH, OKAY, WHO'S OWNING THIS? YOU LAY OUT THE NAMES OF THE
OWNERS. THE OWNERS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE RIGHT TO THE MONEY
AND THEY OWN IT IN NET, YOU KNOW, IN PROPORTION TO THEIR NET
CONTRIBUTIONS WHICH ARE THEN, YOU KNOW, DEFINED UNDER THE STATUTE.
THAT'S NUMBER ONE. IT ASKS THEM, IS THERE SOMEBODY ON THIS ACCOUNT
YOU WANT TO BE AN AUTHORIZED SIGNER, AND IT CLARIFIES THE AUTHORIZED
SIGNER HAS NO RIGHT TO THE MONEY, BUT THEY WOULD BE SIGNING ON BEHALF
OF THE PERSON WHO IS THE OWNER. AND THEN IT ALSO SAYS IF ONE OF THESE
OWNERS DIE, WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO? DOES IT GO TO THE ESTATE -- LET'S
SAY, YOU KNOW, A AND B OWN AN ACCOUNT AND A DIES. DOES IT GO TO A'S
ESTATE OR DOES A WANT IT TO GO TO B? SO IT BASICALLY GIVES -- EMPOWERS
THE PERSON WHO'S WALKING INTO THE BANK AND GIVES THEM THESE CHOICES
THAT THE BANKS SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVING THEM A LONG TIME AGO.
AND I JUST WANT TO MENTION ONE THING. YOU
MENTIONED ABOUT HOW THE BANKS DON'T OFFER CONVENIENCE ACCOUNTS.
THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY IN 1990, BEFORE I WAS EVEN OUT OF LAW SCHOOL,
BASICALLY CREATED A CONVENIENCE ACCOUNT STATUTE, BUT BANKS ARE JUST
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REFUSING TO OFFER THEM AND THEY'RE NOT GIVING THE OWNERS OF THE
ACCOUNTS ANY REALLY CHOICE. SO THIS IS TRYING TO, LIKE, FORCE THEM TO
PROVIDE THE INFORMATION THEY NEED SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE THEIR OWN
INFORMED DECISION.
MR. CURRAN: SO -- AND -- AND YOU'RE RIGHT. AFTER
WE SPOKE YESTERDAY I TRIED TO GET AN ANSWER WITH REGARDS TO WHETHER OR
NOT CONVENIENCE ACCOUNTS ARE BEING OPENED AND I WAS TOLD POINT BLANK
THEY'RE NOT. SO YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THERE. BUT AGAIN, IT'S NOT THE
PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE. MY ISSUES THEN REVOLVE AROUND HOW
WE'RE GOING ABOUT TO SOLVING IT, AND IT'S THOSE TWO ASPECTS; IT'S THE THIRD-
PARTY SIGNER, AND THEN IT'S THE DOCUMENT ITSELF THAT WE'RE SENDING OUT.
SO JUST LET'S START OFF WITH A COUPLE OF PRELIMINARY THINGS. DOES THIS
DEAL -- DOES THIS COVER EVERY SINGLE BANK IN NEW YORK STATE?
MS. WALLACE: NO. RIGHT NOW IT ONLY COVERS
STATE-CHARTERED BANKS AND CREDIT UNIONS. IT DOES NOT COVER NATIONAL
FEDERALLY-CHARTERED BANKS.
MR. CURRAN: SO I GUESS THE FIRST QUESTION WOULD
BE, THEN, IF THIS LEGISLATION DOESN'T COVER ALL OF THE BANKS, THEN WOULD IT
FAIR TO SAY THAT WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY SOLVING OR COMPLETELY SOLVING THE
PROBLEM THAT IS PRESENTED BY THE SURROGATES WITH REGARDS TO THE ASSET
COLLECTION AND DISTRIBUTION AFTER A PERSON PASSES AWAY?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, I'D SAY YES AND NO. FIRST OF
ALL, FEDERALLY-CHARTERED BANKS ACTUALLY DO HAVE TO PROVIDE A VERSION OF
AN ACCOUNT FORM, AND I DON'T HAVE ALL THE DIFFERENT ACCOUNT FORMS THAT
THEY USE, SO SOME OF THEM MAY USE VERY, YOU KNOW, SIMILAR TO THE
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UNIFORM PROBATE CODE BECAUSE I DO KNOW THAT OTHER STATES DO USE
LANGUAGE SIMILAR TO THE UNIFORM PROBATE CODE, SO MAYBE THEY DO.
AND TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY DON'T AND WE DO FIND THAT THAT'S A PROBLEM,
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, LAST WEEK THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT
ISSUED A DECISION THAT REALLY KIND OF OUTLINED THE RELATIONSHIP AND OUR
AUTHORITY AND OUR JURISDICTION TO REGULATE NATIONALLY-CHARTERED BANKS,
AND I THINK BASED UPON THAT DECISION --
MR. CURRAN: RIGHT, IT'S --
MS. WALLACE: -- WE COULD POTENTIALLY REGULATE
THEM IF WE THINK WE SHOULD.
MR. CURRAN: IT'S -- IT'S THE CANTERO DECISION --
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. CURRAN: -- WHICH LEAVES OPEN THE QUESTION OR
AT LEAST REMANDED THE QUESTION BACK TO WHETHER OR NOT THE FEDERAL --
FEDERAL BANKS, FEDERALLY-CHARTERED BANKS CAN FALL UNDER NEW YORK
STATE LAW OR REGULATIONS, BUT THAT'S YET TO BE DETERMINED. BUT -- BUT
TONIGHT WE PASS THIS, IT GOES INTO LAW AS OF RIGHT NOW, IT WOULD ONLY
COVER STATE-CHARTERED BANKS, NOT FEDERALLY-CHARTERED BANKS, WITH THE
EXCEPTION OF WHAT YOU SAID, IF, BY CHANCE, SOME OF THOSE FEDERALLY-
CHARTERED BANKS HAVE A PROCESS IN PLACE TO DICTATE WHERE THOSE FUNDS
ARE GOING ONCE A PERSON PASSES AWAY.
MS. WALLACE: SO YES WITH REGARD TO REQUIRING THIS
SPECIFIC FORM, BUT ACTUALLY ELIMINATING THE MOIETY RULE AND CREATING THE
NET CONTRIBUTION RULE, I BELIEVE THAT WOULD APPLY BECAUSE IT'S PROPERTY
LAW. SO I ACTUALLY DO THINK THAT IT WOULD ULTIMATELY APPLY TO ALL THE
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BANKS.
MR. CURRAN: WELL, THAT'S YET TO BE DETERMINED,
BUT --
MS. WALLACE: OKAY.
MR. CURRAN: -- THAT'S A DISCUSSION FOR A LATER DAY.
SO AS YOU DISCUSSED, THE PROCESS NOW WILL BE THAT TWO PEOPLE COME
INTO A BANK, THEY WANT TO OPEN A JOINT ACCOUNT, OR -- AND UNDER THIS
LEGISLATION, A BANK WOULD ALSO BE REQUIRED TO NOT ONLY PRESENT THOSE
PEOPLE WITH BANKING CARDS, SIGNATURE CARDS, THAT WILL OUTLINE EXACTLY
WHAT YOU SAID, BUT THEY'RE ALSO REQUIRED TO GO BACK AND THEN SEND
SIGNATURE CARDS OR THAT FORM, LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, TO EVERY SINGLE
JOINT ACCOUNT THAT THEY HAVE CURRENTLY IN THEIR BANK; TRUE?
MS. WALLACE: YEAH. I -- I THINK A GOOD ANALOGY
FOR THAT IS THINK OF IT AS A RECALL NOTICE, RIGHT? IT REQUIRES THE BANK TO
SEND TWO NOTICES TO THEIR CUSTOMERS ON EACH ACCOUNT TO SAY, HEY, WE'D
LOVE YOU TO FILL OUT THIS FORM SO YOU CAN TELL US EXACTLY HOW YOU MEANT
FOR THIS ACCOUNT TO BE DISTRIBUTED UPON YOUR DEATH AND, YOU KNOW, WHO
OWNS WHAT, RIGHT? IF THE BANK -- AND THE BANK CAN DO THAT, BY THE WAY,
YOU KNOW, ELECTRONICALLY, THEY COULD SEND IT WITH THEIR NORMAL
STATEMENT, THEY COULD SEND OUT A SEPARATE LETTER. WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE
IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE. BUT IF THE OWNER -- UNDER THE LAW, WE'VE
CLARIFIED IT THAT IF THE -- IF THE PERSON, JUST LIKE A RECALL NOTICE, IF YOU
IGNORE IT, IF THE OWNER OF THE ACCOUNT IGNORES IT, THEN THE ACCOUNT
WOULD STILL BE GOVERNED UNDER THE PREVIOUS LAW.
MR. CURRAN: RIGHT. SO --
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MS. WALLACE: UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THEY COME AND
THEN BRING IN THE SIGNATURE CARD.
MR. CURRAN: SO THE FIRST NOTICE GOES OUT, SIX
MONTHS LATER THE BANK HAS TO SEND OUT A SECONDARY NOTICE. IF THEY DON'T
HEAR WITHIN WHAT TIME PERIOD, CAN THEY THEN ASSUME THAT THE -- THE
ACCOUNT WILL BE GOVERNED UNDER THE OLD JOINT ACCOUNT RULES?
MS. WALLACE: IF THEY DON'T HEAR AFTER THE SECOND
NOTICE, IT WOULD CONTINUE TO BE GOVERNED BY THE EXISTING LAW UNTIL SUCH
TIME AS THEY GET A SIGNATURE CARD TELLING THEM OTHERWISE.
MR. CURRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU WERE NICE
ENOUGH TO PROVIDE ME WITH A SEMI-SAMPLE OF WHAT THAT CARD WOULD
LOOK LIKE, AND ON THAT CARD, AS -- AS YOU PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED, WOULD
BE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THE PERSON'S NAME, THE ACCOUNT
HOLDER'S NAMES, ANYBODY THAT THEY WANT TO BE A THIRD-PARTY AUTHORIZED
SIGNER ON IT. THEY ALSO HAVE A SECTION THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, DO YOU
WANT SURVIVORSHIP RIGHTS TO EXIST, WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT THE FUNDS GO
TO THE OTHER JOINT OWNER WHEN THAT PERSON PASSES, OR NO, YOU DON'T WANT
SURVIVORSHIP RIGHTS AND IT'S GONNA GO TO YOUR ESTATE. THAT NOTICE, THAT
NOTICE, DOES IT HAVE TO BE NOTARIZED?
MS. WALLACE: THE -- THE -- THE ACCOUNT SIGNATURE
FORM IS SUPPOSED TO BE NOTARIZED IF IT'S NOT FILLED OUT AT THE BANK. IF IT'S
FILLED OUT AT THE BANK IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE.
MR. CURRAN: ALL RIGHT. SO THEN LET ME ASK YOU,
CURRENTLY THERE IS A POWER OF ATTORNEY?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
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MR. CURRAN: AND THE POWER OF ATTORNEY IS USUALLY
A ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT THAT LISTS THE PERSON'S NAME, THE PERSON THAT
YOU'RE GRANTING THE POWER OF ATTORNEY TO, IT IS NOTARIZED. IT IS USUALLY
DESCRIBES IN DETAIL WHAT YOU'RE PROVIDING THAT POWER OF ATTORNEY
AUTHORITY OVER, WHETHER IT BE A FINANCIAL ACCOUNT OR ANYTHING. IS IT FAIR
TO SAY, OR ISN'T IT REALLY TRUE, THAT A POWER OF ATTORNEY COULD ACCOMPLISH
THE VERY SAME THING THAT YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH BY NOT ADDING A THIRD
AUTHORIZED SIGNER ON, BUT RATHER HAVING A PERSON FILL OUT A POWER OF
ATTORNEY?
MS. WALLACE: YEAH, A POWER OF ATTORNEY COULD
ACCOMPLISH THIS, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE NOT GETTING A
POWER OF ATTORNEY AND THEY'RE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT THE WAY THEIR
ASSETS ARE GONNA, YOU KNOW, BE DISTRIBUTED THAT IS -- ARE NOT ACCURATE.
SO IF THERE IS SOMEBODY THAT FILLS OUT A POWER OF ATTORNEY, WE'VE MADE
VERY CLEAR IN THE LAW THAT POWER OF ATTORNEY WOULD SUPERCEDE ANY --
ANY SIGNATURE CARD, BUT THIS IS REALLY BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT
FILLING OUT THE POWER OF ATTORNEY FORM AND WE HAVE SO -- WE'VE SEEN SO
MANY INSTANCES OF INJUSTICE.
MR. CURRAN: OKAY. BECAUSE ORIGINALLY, IT WAS --
IT WAS DESCRIBED TO ME THAT A POWER OF ATTORNEY, ONE, WAS EITHER TOO
COMPLICATED OR TOO LEGAL TO UNDERSTAND, WHEREBY THIS PROCESS WOULD
ACTUALLY MAKE IT EASIER. BUT I -- BUT I HAVE TO SAY IN LOOKING AT THE
SAMPLE -- AND -- AND I -- AND I -- I LIKE EVERYTHING IN THE SAMPLE EXCEPT
FOR THE THIRD AUTHORIZED SIGNER -- EVERYTHING IN THE EXAMPLE IS EXACTLY
STRAIGHTFORWARD AND SAYS, WITH REGARDS TO THE DISTRIBUTION OF ASSETS
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EITHER YOU WANT IT OR YOU DON'T, AND YOU GET IT NOTARIZED, WHICH IS
BASICALLY -- WHICH IS REALLY THE SAME EXACT THING THAT YOU CAN
ACCOMPLISH IN A POWER OF ATTORNEY, EXCEPT FOR MAYBE A $3 NOTARY
CHARGE WHICH YOU WOULD HAVE TO ACTUALLY GET FOR THE SIGNATURE CARD
ANYWAY.
SO I GUESS MY POINT BEING IS IF A POWER OF ATTORNEY, IF
A POWER OF ATTORNEY ACCOMPLISHES THE SAME THING, OR -- ACTUALLY, LET ME
JUST WORD IT THIS WAY. IF THE GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW WHERE
THE ASSETS ARE GOING PURSUANT TO WHAT THE DESIRE AND WISHES OF THE
DECEDENT IS, WHY DO WE NEED A THIRD -- AN AUTHORIZED THIRD-PARTY SIGNER
ON THAT CARD?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, YOU DON'T. YOU DON'T NEED
TO, BUT -- BUT THIS -- THIS CLARIFIES WHEN YOU GO INTO THE BANK AND YOU
COME IN WITH YOUR COUSIN AND MAYBE YOU INTEND YOUR COUSIN TO BE A
COOWNER, OR MAYBE YOU INTENDED YOUR COUSIN TO BE, YOU KNOW, JUST
HELPING YOU OUT WITH PAYING THE BILLS. THIS FORM WOULD HELP YOU FILL IT
OUT CORRECTLY SO THAT YOU'RE CLEARLY ARTICULATING ARE YOU REALLY JUST
PAYING THE BILLS OR ARE YOU A COOWNER. RIGHT NOW THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.
AND PEOPLE ARE NOT FILLING OUT POWER OF ATTORNEYS, SO WHAT HAPPENS IS
THEY GET THEIR COUSIN ON THE ACCOUNT, THEN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, YOU
KNOW, THERE'S HALF-A-BILLION DOLLARS IN THE ACCOUNT AND THAT COULD BE ALL
OR MOST OF THEIR MONEY. THE THREE KIDS THINK THEY'RE GONNA INHERIT IT,
THEY LIVE OUT-OF-STATE SO THEY REALLY WEREN'T THE PERSON ON THE ACCOUNT,
AND THEN THE MONEY DOESN'T GO TO THEM BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, UNDER LAW
THIS IS OUTSIDE THE ESTATE.
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MR. CURRAN: I AGREE WITH YOU. AND -- AND LIKE
WE SAID, ME AND YOU AGREE ON THAT. BUT -- BUT THEN YOU TAKE IT TO THE
NEXT LEVEL AND YOU -- WE CAN ACCOMPLISH EXACTLY THAT, MAKING SURE THAT
THE ASSETS OF THAT DECEDENT, THAT ACCOUNT HOLDER, GOES EXACTLY WHERE
THEY WANT IT. BY CUTTING YOUR FORM OFF RIGHT AFTER, DO YOU WANT -- DO
YOU WANT YOUR ASSETS IN THIS ACCOUNT TO GO TO YOUR ESTATE OR DO YOU
WANT IT TO GO TO THE JOINT OWNER, AND -- AND THAT WOULD ACCOMPLISH
WHAT THE MAIN INTENT OF THIS BILL IS. AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE
HAVE TO GO FURTHER AND THEN INCLUDING A THIRD AUTHORIZED SIGNER BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT REALLY, THEN -- BECAUSE THAT'S THE MAJORITY OF MY QUESTIONS.
THAT'S WHERE WE OPEN AVENUES OF FRAUD, CONFUSION AND MISALLOCATION
OF THOSE ASSETS.
MS. WALLACE: SO I'D SAY RESPECTFULLY, THE -- -- THE
-- THAT'S SAYING THAT THERE'S REALLY NO PROBLEM UNDER THE EXISTING LAW,
BUT THERE IS. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ALREADY IS A PROBLEM WHICH IS WHY I
BELIEVE WE NEED THIS FORM. IF THE POWER OF ATTORNEY SOLVED IT ALL, THERE
WOULD BE NO REASON FOR THIS LEGISLATION.
MR. CURRAN: NO, AND AGAIN -- AND LIKE I SAID, I
THINK YOU MIS -- YOU MISCHARACTERIZED WHAT I SAID, I AGREE WITH YOU,
THERE IS A PROBLEM --
MS. WALLACE: OKAY.
MR. CURRAN: -- WE HAVE TO FIGURE IT OUT WITH
REGARDS TO MAKING SURE THEIR INTENT IS CLEAR OF WHERE THOSE FUNDS ARE
GOING. BUT WE DON'T NEED A THIRD PARTY AUTHORIZED SIGNER TO DO THAT.
YOUR -- YOUR SAMPLE SIGNATURE CARD ACCOMPLISHES THAT, BUT THEN YOU
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DECIDE TO ACTUALLY ADD IN LEGISLATION THAT'S GONNA ADD A THIRD-PARTY
SIGNER, WHICH IS NOT LEGAL.
MS. WALLACE: THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT THAT THEY
PUT AN AUTHORIZED SIGNER ON THERE. IT'S UP TO THE -- IT'S UP TO THE
DEPOSITOR IF THEY WANT TO DO THAT.
MR. CURRAN: OKAY. JUST WITH REGARDS TO THE
SIGNATURE CARDS. SO THAT'S GONNA GO OUT -- A SIGNATURE CARD IS GONNA GO
OUT TO EVERY JOINT OWNER OF AN ACCOUNT THAT HAS AN ACCOUNT AT A BANK.
SO THAT COULD INCLUDE CHECKING ACCOUNTS, INCLUDE -- INCLUDE IRAS, IT
CAN INCLUDE SAVINGS ACCOUNTS; THAT'S FAIR, RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. CURRAN: SO A PERSON CAN BE GETTING, YOU
KNOW, UP TO TEN, 20 CARDS, DEPENDING ON HOW MANY ACCOUNTS THEY
HAVE, TO FILL OUT AND SEND BACK TO THE -- TO THE BANK, RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: SURE.
MR. CURRAN: RIGHT. WHAT HAPPENS IN A SITUATION
WHERE YOU HAVE A JOINT ACCOUNT AND ON THAT JOINT ACCOUNT YOU SPECIFY
HOW YOU WANT YOUR -- YOUR ASSETS DIVVIED UP AFTER YOU PASS AWAY, BUT
IT ALSO INCLUDES THAT THIRD AUTHORIZED SIGNER. WHAT IF THE TWO JOINT
OWNERS DON'T AGREE ON THOSE CARDS, WHAT HAPPENS?
MS. WALLACE: THEY WOULDN'T FILL IT OUT. I MEAN,
THEY WOULDN'T -- YOU KNOW, THE -- IT REQUIRES THAT THEY AGREE, AND IF
DIDN'T AGREE I GUESS THEY'D TAKE THEIR MONEY OUT AND DO SOMETHING ELSE
WITH IT.
MR. CURRAN: WELL, BUT THERE'S MULTIPLE AREAS OF
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QUESTIONS ON THAT CARD, AND -- AND WE ALREADY DISCUSSED ABOUT IT, HOW
YOU WANT YOUR ASSETS DISBURSED, IF YOU WANT A THIRD-PARTY SIGNER. WHAT
IF THEY AGREE, THEY AGREE AND THEY WANT TO SPECIFY HOW THEY WANT THEIR
ASSETS DISBURSED BUT THEY CAN'T AGREE ON A THIRD-PARTY AUTHORIZED
SIGNER? WHAT HAPPENS IN THAT CASE?
MS. WALLACE: THEY DON'T PUT A THIRD-PARTY
AUTHORIZED SIGNER ON THERE, OR THEY FIND SOMEBODY THEY AGREE WITH.
THAT'S -- I MEAN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT AN AUTHORIZED SIGNER ON THERE,
THERE'S NOTHING THAT REQUIRES THEM TO DO IT.
MR. CURRAN: NO, I KNOW THAT, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING
IS --
MS. WALLACE: I -- I GUESS I'M CONFUSED, I DON'T --
YEAH.
MR. CURRAN: -- IF ONE PERSON DOES PUT AN
AUTHORIZED SIGNER ON THERE --
MS. WALLACE: NO, THEY BOTH HAVE TO AGREE UNDER
THE LAW.
MR. CURRAN: OKAY.
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. CURRAN: SO IF THEY CAN'T AGREE --
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. CURRAN: -- THEN THERE IS NONE.
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. CURRAN: ALL RIGHT, GREAT. THANK YOU.
ALSO, UNDER THIS BILL, AS YOU TALKED ABOUT, THE RULE
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WITH REGARDS TO JOINT OWNERS, ONE GETTING 50 PERCENT, THE OTHER ONE
GETTING 50 PERCENT, GETS COMPLETELY CHANGED. UNDER YOUR BILL, YOU
ACTUALLY HAVE A FORMULA THAT DETERMINES HOW MUCH EACH OWNER OWNS
OF THAT MONEY IN THAT ACCOUNT; FAIR?
MS. WALLACE: YES, NET CONTRIBUTION.
MR. CURRAN: RIGHT.
MS. WALLACE: SO IF I PUT -- JUST HYPOTHETICALLY --
IF WE HAVE AN ACCOUNT TOGETHER AND I PUT IN 80,000 AND YOU PUT IN
20,000, UNDER CURRENT LAW WE EACH OWN NOW 50,000. THIS CHANGES IT
SO THAT I STILL OWN MY 80- AND YOU STILL OWN YOUR 20-.
MR. CURRAN: SO CAN YOU JUST TELL ME HOW THAT'S
DETERMINED? HOW -- HOW IS THAT PERCENTAGE ACTUALLY DETERMINED?
MS. WALLACE: THE ONUS WOULD BE UPON THE
ACCOUNT OWNERS TO KEEP TRACK OF WHOSE MONEY, HOW MUCH MONEY THEY
HAVE IN THE ACCOUNT. IF FOR SOME REASON THEY DON'T DO A GOOD JOB AND
THEY CAN'T PROVE IT, THEN THE LAW PROVIDES A DEFAULT THAT IT DEFAULTS TO
THE EXISTING LAW WHICH IS HALF EQUALLY.
MR. CURRAN: OKAY. SO -- SO FOR AN EXAMPLE, YOU
KNOW, IF -- IF -- IF BILL -- IF ADAM AND BILL OPEN A JOINT ACCOUNT WITHOUT
SURVIVORSHIP RIGHTS AND ADAM CONTRIBUTES 60,000 AND BILL CONTRIBUTES
40,000, ADAM OWNS 60 PERCENT OF THAT ACCOUNT UNDER THAT FORMULA,
RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: RIGHT, RIGHT.
MR. CURRAN: ALL RIGHT. BUT WHEN ADAM DIES, THE
ACCOUNT HAS $80,000 IN IT LESS THAN THE ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTION RATE. IT
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WOULD BE NECESSARY TO ASCERTAIN HOW MUCH OF THAT 20,000 WAS USED
AND SPENT BY ADAM. IS THAT PART OF THE FORMULA?
MS. WALLACE: YEAH, IT'S REALLY BETWEEN THE
ACCOUNT OWNERS TO FIGURE IT OUT AMONGST THEMSELVES. LET'S SAY THEY,
YOU KNOW -- ARE YOU SAYING IF HE PASSED OR IF HE DIDN'T PASS?
MR. CURRAN: YEAH, HE PASSED.
MS. WALLACE: OKAY, HE PASSED. LIKE, SO BETWEEN
THE ESTATE AND THE SURVIVING PERSON TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, AGREE ON IT.
IF DIDN'T AGREE, THEY'D HAVE TO SHOW THEIR RECORDS ON HOW MUCH, YOU
KNOW, WHO OWNS WHAT, AND IF THAT -- IF THEY COULD -- IF WHOEVER WANT --
YOU KNOW, COULD NOT PROVE IT, THEN IT WOULD DEFAULT EQUALLY.
MR. CURRAN: SO IF I'M UNDERSTANDING, IF THERE'S --
IF THERE IS A DISPUTE BETWEEN THE TWO JOINT OWNERS, ANY DISPUTE AS TO THE
AMOUNT THAT'S ARRIVED AT, THEN IT REVERTS BACK TO THE OLD LAW?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, NO. I THINK IF THE DISPUTE -- IF
A COURT, IF YOU WOULD TAKE -- YOU KNOW, WE TAKE IT TO -- IT PROVIDES A
RIGHT OF ACTION, I THINK. IF -- IF ONE PERSON SAYS, IT'S ALL MINE AND THE
SURVIVING PERSON SAYS, IT'S ALL MINE AND THE STATE SAYS, NO, SOME OF
THAT'S OURS, YOU KNOW, THEN THE -- THE STATE WOULD HAVE TO PROVE SOME
OF THAT IS -- MONEY BELONGS TO THE ESTATE. IF THEY COULDN'T PROVE IT BY
THE STANDARD THAT THEY KNOW (INAUDIBLE) PRESUMABLY PREPONDERANCE,
THEN IT WOULD DEFAULT TO HALF, TO EQUAL.
MR. CURRAN: BUT THIS IS ALL IN COURT. THIS IS --
THIS IS AFTER A PERSON --
MS. WALLACE: IN THAT RARE SITUATION WHERE I THINK
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THEY DON'T AGREE AND THEY CAN'T PROVIDE -- YOU KNOW, THEY CAN'T WORK IT
OUT.
MR. CURRAN: OKAY. BUT THE ASSETS ARE
THEORETICALLY FROZEN FROM THE TIME PERSON DIES UNTIL THAT'S WORKED OUT?
MS. WALLACE: OR, I MEAN, QUITE FRANKLY, THE
ASSETS COULD BE PULLED OUT BY ONE PARTY AND, YOU KNOW, THE -- THAT
PARTY, YOU KNOW, THE STATE GOES AFTER THAT PARTY FOR THEIR SHARE OF THE
ASSETS, THE WAY IT COULD -- EXISTS IN CURRENT LAW.
MR. CURRAN: RIGHT. WELL, BUT THAT LEADS ME INTO
MY NEXT LINE OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU, AND THAT IS THE POSSIBILITIES THAT EXIST
WITH REGARDS TO THAT THIRD-PARTY SIGNER. SO, UNDER THE LAW IT SAYS THAT
THIS TYPE OF ACCOUNT THAT HAS A THIRD-PARTY SIGNER, IT SUPERCEDES A WILL
INSOFAR AS IT'S NOT CONSIDERED AN ESTATE ASSET, IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN
ASSET THAT PASSES BY OPERATION OF THE LAW BEFORE ANY ESTATE PROBATE OR
ADMINISTRATION HAS TAKEN PLACE, RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: YEAH, AS IT IS UNDER CURRENT LAW.
MR. CURRAN: ALL RIGHT. SO IN THIS CASE, IF YOU
HAVE A THIRD-PARTY SIGNER, YOU HAVE A THIRD PARTY SIGNING, YOU HAVE TWO
JOINT -- YOU HAVE TWO JOINT OWNERS, AND LET'S JUST SAY FOR HYPOTHETICAL
SAKE, IT'S A HUSBAND AND WIFE AND THE WIFE PASSES AWAY, SHE'S A JOINT
OWNER ON THE ACCOUNT. SHE SAID WITHIN YOUR CARD THAT SHE WAS -- SHE
DID NOT WANT THE RIGHTS OF SURVIVORSHIP, SHE WANTED HER ASSETS TO GO
INTO THE ESTATE, AND THEN -- WHICH WOULD BE DOLED OUT THROUGH A WILL.
AND SAY IN HER WILL SHE WANTED TO GIVE ALL HER MONEY TO SLATER, WHICH
WAS THE WORST IDEA BASED UPON HER HUSBAND.
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(LAUGHTER)
HER HUSBAND CAN'T STAND SLATER. SO WHAT HAPPENS --
(LAUGHTER)
-- SO -- SO WHAT HAPPENS IS -- WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU
HAVE A THIRD-PARTY AUTHORIZED SIGNER, YOU HAVE A THIRD-PARTY AUTHORIZED
SIGNER, THE WIFE PASSES AWAY BUT THE GRANDFATHER CAN'T STAND WHERE THAT
MONEY IS GOING?
MS. WALLACE: I'M SORT OF CONFUSED ON WHO ALL THE
DIFFERENT PEOPLE ARE. OKAY, SO --
(LAUGHTER)
MR. CURRAN: SORRY, SO YOU HAVE A HUSBAND AND
WIFE.
MS. WALLACE: OKAY.
MR. CURRAN: YOU HAVE A HUSBAND AND WIFE.
MS. WALLACE: SO HUSBAND AND WIFE. AND THEN IS
AUTHORIZED SIGNER THE PERSON WHO IS GETTING IN THE ESTATE? I WAS
CONFUSED ABOUT THAT.
MR. CURRAN: NO, I'M SORRY. THERE'S AN AUTHORIZED
SIGNER ON THE ACCOUNT, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IT IS.
MS. WALLACE: OKAY.
MR. CURRAN: AUTHORIZED SIGNER. AND SHE WANTS
TO GIVE THE MONEY -- FORGET ABOUT SLATER -- WANTS TO GIVE THE MONEY --
WANTS TO GIVE THE MONEY TO THE GRANDSON.
MS. WALLACE: OKAY.
MR. CURRAN: BUT -- BUT THE JOINT OWNER, THE
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GRANDFATHER, DOESN'T LIKE -- LIKE THE GRANDSON.
MS. WALLACE: OKAY.
MR. CURRAN: SO IS IT POSSIBLE UNDER THOSE
CIRCUMSTANCES THAT ONCE THE GRANDMOTHER PASSES AWAY, THE AUTHORIZED
SIGNER HAS THE ABILITY, WHO IS A NON-PARTY TO THAT ACCOUNT, HAS THE
ABILITY TO TRANSFER ALL OF THE GRANDMOTHER'S ASSETS TO WHEREVER THEY
WANT, WHETHER IT BE BACK TO THE GRAND -- THE JOINT OWNER, THE
GRANDFATHER, OR ANYWHERE ELSE BECAUSE HIS ABILITY TO MAKE THAT TRANSFER
SURVIVES THAT GRANDMOTHER PASSING.
MS. WALLACE: YEAH. WELL, BECAUSE IF THE OTHER
PERSON IS STILL ALIVE SO YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. SO LET'S SAY HYPOTHETICALLY
THAT HAPPENS --
MR. CURRAN: YEP.
MS. WALLACE: -- AND THE AUTHORIZED SIGNER GIVES
MORE THAN HE'S SUPPOSED TO TO THE GRANDSON. THEN THE GRANDFATHER
WOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO GO AFTER THAT BALANCE THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN
GIVEN TO THE GRANDSON, OR IF -- YOU KNOW, OR THE GRANDFATHER CAN
CHALLENGE IT BUT THEN THE MONEY IS STILL THERE, YOU KNOW, WHEREAS
THERE'S NO CAUSE OF ACTION AT THIS POINT. THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.
MR. CURRAN: RIGHT, BUT THAT'S -- BUT THAT'S MY
PROBLEM WITH THE THIRD-PARTY SIGNER. SO THE THIRD-PARTY SIGNER FIRST -- IF
IT WAS A POWER OF ATTORNEY SITUATION WHERE A PERSON WAS HANDLING AS
OPPOSED TO A THIRD-PARTY AUTHORIZED SIGNER ON THAT ACCOUNT, THAT POWER
OF ATTORNEY'S ABILITY TO DO ANY TRANSFERS, TO DO ANY TRANSACTIONS CEASES
TO EXIST AT THE MOMENT THAT THE GRANDMOTHER DIES, BUT UNDER YOUR BILL
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THE THIRD-PARTY AUTHORIZED SIGNER CAN MAKE WHATEVER TRANSFERS THEY
WANT, AS LONG AS THE OTHER JOINT OWNER IS STILL ALIVE.
MS. WALLACE: RIGHT. WELL, BECAUSE THE JOINT
OWNER WILL HAVE AGREED TO THAT CONDITION --
MR. CURRAN: YEP.
MS. WALLACE: -- WHEN THE PERSON SIGNED IT AND,
YOU KNOW, THE REALITY IS LIKE RIGHT NOW UNDER EXISTING LAW THE
AUTHORIZED SIGNER CAN CLEAN OUT THE ACCOUNT -- WELL, THE JOINT OWNER
CAN CLEAN OUT THE ACCOUNT EVEN IF THAT WASN'T WHAT -- AND, YOU KNOW,
AND THERE'S NO RIGHT OF ACTION TO GET THAT MONEY BACK. SO I GUESS WHAT
I'M TRYING TO SAY, YOU KNOW -- YEAH, OKAY.
MR. CURRAN: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, BUT ON TWO
COUNTS. ONE, IF THE BANK WAS NOTIFIED AND THE ACCOUNTS -- ACCOUNTS ARE
SUPPOSED TO AUTOMATICALLY BE FROZEN TO PREVENT THE GRANDFATHER FROM --
FROM CLOSING OUT THAT ACCOUNT AND RAIDING THE ACCOUNT, BUT HERE'S THE
OTHER BIGGER POINT. THE BIGGER POINT IS WITH THE POWER OF ATTORNEY THAT
PERSON HAS A FIDUCIARY DUTY TO THAT GRANDMOTHER WHO PASSED AWAY. HE
HAS TO MAKE EVERY TRANSACTION IN THE BEST FINANCIAL INTEREST OF THE
PERSON THAT HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR UNDER THAT POWER OF ATTORNEY. UNDER
YOUR BILL THAT THIRD-PARTY AUTHORIZED SIGNER HAS NO STATUS AS A FIDUCIARY
AND COULD DO WHATEVER THEY WANT, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE STILL MAY
BE A CAUSE OF ACTION IN YOUR EXAMPLE. THE GRANDFATHER COULD GO
AGAINST THE ESTATE AND GET THE EXCESS MONEY THAT THE ESTATE WAS GIVEN,
BUT IN THIS CASE IF THIS GRANDSON WAS CHEATED OUT OF THAT MONEY AND THE
AUTHORIZED SIGNER TRANSFERRED THAT MONEY BACK TO THE GRANDFATHER OR
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SOMEWHERE ELSE, HE HAS A MUCH MORE -- HE MIGHT HAVE A CAUSE OF
ACTION AGAINST HIM, BUT THE PROBLEM IS HE HAS TO PROVE IT AND THERE'S NO
FIDUCIARY DUTY BETWEEN YOUR THIRD-PARTY AUTHORIZED SIGNER AND THAT
GRANDMOTHER AND MAKES THE CASE TEN TIMES HARDER.
MS. WALLACE: WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT THERE -- YOU
KNOW, WHEN YOU SAY "FIDUCIARY DUTY" THERE IS A DUTY TO ACT IN THE
BENEFIT OF THE AUTHORIZED -- THE OWNERS OF THE ACCOUNT, RIGHT? NOW
THERE MAY BE A SITUATION WHERE IT HAPPENS WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE, YOU
KNOW, A UNIFIED INTEREST AS IN THAT SITUATION, BUT I ALSO WANT TO CLARIFY.
THIS -- THIS LEGISLATION IS ALSO TELLING THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL
SERVICES TO PUT FORTH REGULATIONS. I MEAN THERE'S PROBABLY A LOT OF
HYPOTHETICALS THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVEN'T YET BEEN ANTICIPATED BUT THE
REALITY IS UNDER EXISTING LAW THERE'S A COMPLETE INJUSTICE AND I THINK
THAT THIS ON THE BALANCE OF EVERYTHING IS GOING TO MAKE MOST CASES
MUCH MORE CLEAR. THERE MIGHT BE THOSE FEW CASES THAT -- THAT ARISE
AND WE CAN PROVIDE REGULATIONS TO ADDRESS THAT SITUATION, BUT I THINK
THAT, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF THE BALANCE OF THE HARDSHIPS, RIGHT NOW
UNDER EXISTING LAW, THERE'S NO PROTECTION FOR THESE PEOPLE AND THIS
WOULD CREATE PROTECTION IN MOST OF THE CASES, ESPECIALLY IF YOU FILL OUT
THE CARD CORRECTLY.
MR. CURRAN: BUT, AGAIN, THAT GETS BACK TO MY
EARLIER POINT. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, BUT YOU PROVIDE THAT PROTECTION
JUST BY THAT ONE SECTION IN -- IN THAT CARD OR THAT FORM BY SAYING, WHERE
DO YOU WANT YOUR ASSETS TO GO? BUT YOU'RE NEEDLESSLY ADDING A THIRD-
PARTY AUTHORIZED SIGNER INTO AN ACCOUNT, WHICH I THINK CREATES A HOST OF
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POSSIBILITIES AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO COMMIT FRAUD, ILLEGAL
TRANSACTIONS WITHOUT REAL CONSEQUENCES THAT CURRENTLY EXIST. I THINK
THIS CREATES MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO GET DEFRAUDED THAN LESS.
LIKE I SAID, THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY -- I THINK YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT
THAT ONE PART OF YOUR FORM THAT SAYS, TELL US WHERE YOU WANT YOUR
MONEY. LET ME JUST ASK YOU THIS, BECAUSE I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME.
MS. WALLACE: YEAH.
MR. CURRAN: SO THERE'S ANOTHER ASPECT THAT I JUST
TALKED ABOUT BEING WORRIED ABOUT FRAUD, AND ESPECIALLY WITH REGARDS TO
SENIORS, AND -- AND YOU'RE RIGHT, A LOT OF PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY ELDERLY
PEOPLE THEY -- THEY INVITE ANOTHER PERSON TO COME INTO THEIR ACCOUNT SO
THAT THEY CAN EITHER WRITE BILLS FOR THEM, TAKE CARE OF BILLS, OR THEY
COULD AFFORD TAXES OR THEY CAN GO OVER THE FDIC LIMIT AND ACTUALLY
HAVE $5,000 IN THAT ACCOUNT AND STILL BE COVERED BECAUSE YOU HAVE TWO
OWNERS ON IT. EITHER WAY, IN YOUR BILL, IT SAYS THAT UNLESS THERE IS CLEAR
AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE OF A DIFFERENT INTENT, AN AUTHORIZED SIGNER'S
AUTHORITY SHALL SURVIVE THE DISABILITY OR THE INCAPACITY OF AN ACCOUNT
OWNER. SO THAT LEADS TO THE FIRST QUESTION WITH THE CONCERN OF FRAUD.
WHO DETERMINES WHAT IS CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, ULTIMATELY THAT WOULD BE A
COURT.
MR. CURRAN: OKAY. SO -- SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE SIGNIFICANTLY AFTER A TIME PERIOD WHERE
AN ILLEGAL TRANSACTION, POSSIBLY A LEGAL TRANSACTION, HAS ALREADY
OCCURRED AND THAT MONEY'S GONE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. WALLACE: WELL, IF I MAY, YOU KNOW, THE
AUTHORIZED -- THE -- THE PERSON DOESN'T HAVE TO, THEY CAN SAY I DON'T
WANT IT TO SURVIVE MY DISABILITY SO THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOTHING
REQUIRING IT. AND AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO SAY AND THIS KIND OF ANSWERS THE
QUESTION YOU JUST HAD BEFORE THIS. YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING
THAT WE'RE CREATING OUT OF THE BLUE AND JUST COMPLETELY MADE IT UP
WHOLESALE. THIS IS BASED UPON THE UNIFORM PROBATE CODE, WHICH IS
FOLLOWED BY 22 OTHER STATES AND MANY OF THESE STATES ALSO HAVE FORMS
THAT ARE VERY SIMILAR AND HAVE THESE CONVENIENCE ACCOUNT -- YOU KNOW,
WHAT DO WE CALL THEM, AUTHORIZED SIGNERS IN OUR -- SO THERE IS -- ALSO,
WE CAN LOOK TO WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN THOSE OTHER STATES FOR CLARITY IN
THE REGULATIONS IF THIS IS REALLY A PROBLEM.
MR. CURRAN: I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, BUT
JUST -- IF -- IF I COULD JUST FINISH THIS ONE LINE. SO -- SO CAN YOU GIVE ME
ANY EXAMPLES OF CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT WOULD SUPERCEDE
THE AUTHORIZED SIGNER'S ABILITY TO -- TO ACT IN A -- IN A CASE?
MS. WALLACE: LIKE -- WELL, I GUESS -- YEAH, A
POWER OF ATTORNEY.
MR. CURRAN: OKAY.
MS. WALLACE: THAT POWER OF ATTORNEY THAT SAYS
OTHERWISE.
MR. CURRAN: ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHERS?
MS. WALLACE: OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD --
MR. CURRAN: I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT --
MS. WALLACE: I MEAN I JUST HAVEN'T -- YOU KNOW,
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
EVERY SCENARIO HAS NOT BEEN IMAGINED.
(BUZZER SOUNDED)
MR. CURRAN: WAS THAT MY SECOND? THANK YOU.
MS. WALLACE: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THANK YOU FOR
BEING SO BRIEF, MR. CURRAN.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR
CONTINUE TO YIELD?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: SHE YIELDS.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. UNDER THE CURRENT
SYSTEM IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD FROM A BANK IF THERE'S TWO PEOPLE ON
THE ACCOUNT AND ONE DIES THE OTHER CAN CONTINUE TO ACCESS THE ACCOUNT,
CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. GOODELL: AND IF THERE'S ONLY ONE PERSON ON
THE ACCOUNT, OF COURSE, WHEN THEY DIE NOBODY CAN ACCESS THE ACCOUNT,
RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. GOODELL: UNDER THIS SCENARIO IF THERE'S TWO
PEOPLE ON THE ACCOUNT AND ONE DIES, THE BANK HAS TO FIGURE OUT HOW
MUCH THE SECOND PERSON CAN ACCESS, CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: NO. THE BANK DOES NOT NEED TO
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FIGURE THAT OUT. THE OTHER PERSON STILL CAN TAKE OUT ALL THE MONEY. IT'S
JUST THE ESTATE -- IF THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, THE ESTATE NOW HAS
A CAUSE OF ACTION.
MR. GOODELL: UNLESS -- UNLESS THE FIRST PERSON
WHO DIED SAID I WANT ALL MY ASSETS TO GO TO MY ESTATE, CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, ASSUMING THAT TO BE THE CASE,
HUSBAND AND WIFE, WIFE WANTS THE ASSETS TO GO TO, YOU KNOW, HER
FAVORITE CHILD, HUSBAND THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO HIM AND HUSBAND TAKES
ALL THE MONEY OUT. THE BANK COULD PAY THE HUSBAND ALL THE MONEY.
THE FAVORITE CHILD WHO IS THE BENEFICIARY UNDER THE -- NOW GOES AFTER --
GOES AFTER THE -- THE -- THE HUSBAND AND SAYS, YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT
TO THAT MONEY, THIS CARD CLEARLY STATES OTHERWISE. THE BANK DOESN'T
REALLY NEED TO BE INVOLVED IN IT.
MR. GOODELL: AND DOES THIS BILL RELIEVE THE BANK
OF ANY FINANCIAL LIABILITY UNDER THAT CIRCUMSTANCE?
MS. WALLACE: YES. IF THE BANK FOLLOWS THE CARD,
THE BANK HAS NO LIABILITY.
MR. GOODELL: YOU SAY IF THE BANK FOLLOWS THE
CARD, SO IF THE CARD SAYS PERSON A, WHEN I DIE I WANT MINE TO GO TO THE
ESTATE. PERSON B SAYS WHEN I DIE, CAN THE PERSON B HAVE A DIFFERENT
DIRECTION?
MS. WALLACE: YEAH, BUT -- BUT IT'S NOT REALLY UP TO
THE BANK TO FIGURE THAT OUT --
MR. GOODELL: WELL --
MS. WALLACE: -- WELL, BECAUSE THE BANK IS ALLOWED
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TO PAY TO EITHER PARTY AND EVEN AN AUTHORIZED SIGNER DURING THE LIFETIME
OF THE PARTIES, AND THEN IF -- IF THE PERSON IS COMMITTING MALFEASANCE,
THEN THE PERSON THAT IS OWED THE MONEY HAS A RIGHT OF ACTION TO GO GET
THAT MONEY BACK.
MR. GOODELL: SO, JUST SO EVERYONE CAN FOLLOW US
ON THIS SIMPLE DISCUSSION. LET'S ASSUME NO MONEY IS TAKEN OUT WHILE
BOTH PARTIES ARE ALIVE, AND THERE'S TWO PEOPLE. CAN PERSON A SAY UPON
MY DEATH I WANT IT TO GO TO MY ESTATE?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. GOODELL: AND CAN PERSON B ON THE SAME
ACCOUNT SAY IF I DIE I WANT ALL THE MONEY TO GO TO PERSON A?
MS. WALLACE: NO, NO. IT'S EITHER RIGHT OF
SURVIVORSHIP OR NOT.
MR. GOODELL: I'M SORRY?
MS. WALLACE: THEY HAVE TO AGREE. I THINK THEY
HAVE TO AGREE. JUST LET ME DOUBLE CHECK THAT, I THINK THEY HAVE TO
AGREE TO ONE. YEAH. OKAY. SEE THE FORM SAYS WHEN IT'S TWO PEOPLE ON
THE ACCOUNT YOU HAVE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION: HOW DO YOU WANT YOUR
SHARE TO BE DISTRIBUTED? DO YOU WANT IT TO GO TO THE OTHER PERSON OR DO
YOU WANT IT TO GO TO YOUR ESTATE? SO REGARDLESS OF WHO DIES, THEY'RE
BOTH STUCK WITH THAT CHOICE.
MR. GOODELL: SO THEY CAN'T MAKE SEPARATE
DECISIONS?
MS. WALLACE: NO.
MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO LET'S SAY THEY BOTH AGREE
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THAT IF EITHER DIES, THE ACCOUNT OF THE PERSON WHO DIES GOES TO THEIR
ESTATE, RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. GOODELL: AND IT'S UP TO THE BANK OR SOMEONE
TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH THE DECEDENT'S VALUE WAS BASED ON HOW MUCH
THEY DEPOSITED MINUS HOW MUCH THEY TOOK OUT?
MS. WALLACE: RIGHT. IT WOULD BE UP TO THE ESTATE
TO SAY, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY THE MONEY'S -- , YOU KNOW, NOBODY'S TAKING
ANY MONEY OUT, THE MONEY IS THERE --
MR. GOODELL: AND SO --
MS. WALLACE: -- THE -- THE ESTATE WOULD BE LIKE
HEY, WE'RE OWED THIS AMOUNT, IF EVERYBODY AGREES THERE'S NO ISSUE. IF
ONE PARTY DISAGREES, THE PARTY WHO SAYS NO, NO, THAT'S MY MONEY, THEN
THEY GOT TO TAKE IT TO THE COURT. IT'S NOT REALLY -- THE -- THE BANK IS NOT
INVOLVED IN THESE DECISIONS.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND SO DOES THE BANK FREEZE
THE ACCOUNT UPON GETTING NOTIFICATION THAT A DIED?
MS. WALLACE: I DIDN'T HEAR THAT.
MR. GOODELL: SO DOES THE BANK HAVE AN
OBLIGATION TO FREEZE THE ACCOUNT WHEN A DIES AWAITING A COURT
DETERMINATION OF WHAT THE RESPECTIVE SHARE IS?
MS. WALLACE: IF THEY'RE NOTIFIED THAT THE PERSON
HAS DIED I THINK THEY MIGHT HAVE TO FREEZE THE ACCOUNT. THAT MIGHT BE
SOMETHING WE CAN CLARIFY IN THE REGULATIONS.
MR. GOODELL: SO DOES THIS BILL REQUIRE ANY PARTY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TO NOTIFY THE BANK OF THE DEATH OF ANY OTHER PARTY?
(PAUSE)
MS. WALLACE: I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
MR. GOODELL: THAT'S KIND OF IMPORTANT, ISN'T IT?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, THE -- THE CURRENT LAW DOESN'T
-- THE CURRENT LAW DOESN'T REQUIRE THAT THEY PROVIDE NOTICE UNDER THIS
DRAFT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S NORMALLY WHAT HAPPENS, LIKE WE'RE NOT
CHANGING. WHATEVER THAT LAW IS NOW, IS -- IS NOT BEING CHANGED.
MR. GOODELL: WELL --
MS. WALLACE: -- IF THERE'S A REQUIREMENT
SOMEWHERE IN LAW THAT PROVIDES SOMEBODY NOTICE THAT THEY DIED THAT
LAW CONTINUES.
MR. GOODELL: THAT'S BECAUSE UNDER THE CURRENT
LAW THE BANK DOESN'T CARE, RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: RIGHT. AND THEY REALLY SHOULDN'T
CARE UNDER THIS LAW.
MR. GOODELL: EXCEPT THAT UNDER THIS LAW THE
ACCOUNT SHOULD BE FROZEN UPON NOTIFICATION OF DEATH UNTIL THE COURT CAN
DECIDE WHO OWNS HOW MUCH, RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: THAT'S TRUE OF ANY ACCOUNT THAT HAS
MORE THAN ONE PERSON.
MR. GOODELL: SO YOU THINK BANKS ARE FREEZING
ACCOUNTS UPON NOTIFICATION OF DEATH UNDER THE CURRENT LAW? I MEAN
UNDER THE CURRENT LAW THE BANK KNOWS AUTOMATICALLY THAT AT LEAST HALF IS
-- IS THE OTHER PERSON'S.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(PAUSE)
MS. WALLACE: I THINK UNDER CURRENT LAW - AND I'M
NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT POSITIVE OF THIS - I THINK UNDER CURRENT LAW, YOU
-- YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN SAYING THAT THERE'S A -- A PRESUMPTION OF JOINT
-- OF SURVIVORSHIP, BUT I DO THINK THAT EVEN UNDER CURRENT LAW THE
PERSON COULD SAY NO, I DON'T WANT IT TO BE SURVIVORSHIP. AND IF THAT'S
THE CASE THIS -- THIS ISN'T CHANGING ANYTHING. AND IF THIS ISN'T THE CASE
THEN WE CAN PROVIDE, AS I SAID, CLARIFYING REGULATIONS.
MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO WE'RE BEING ASKED TO
ADOPT A STATUTE WE'RE NOT SURE HOW WILL ACT BUT WE'RE HOPING THAT
SOMEBODY WILL FIGURE IT OUT BY REGULATIONS?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, I THINK THAT AS I'VE SAID
REPEATEDLY, THIS STATUTE FOLLOWS A UNIFORM PROBATE CODE THAT HAS BEEN
ADOPTED BY 22 OTHER STATES AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IT ANSWERS MORE
QUESTIONS THAN ARE LEFT OPEN. I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF HYPOTHETICALS
ABOUT WHAT IF THIS SITUATION, WHAT IF THIS SITUATION. THERE'S ALSO A LOT OF
SITUATIONS THAT CURRENTLY EXIST NOW WHERE THERE'S ABSOLUTE INJUSTICE.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE MIGHT BE A COUPLE CASES WHERE -- THAT WE NEED TO
CLARIFY A FEW THINGS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME AT LEAST WE'RE AVOIDING THE
SITUATION THAT WE HAVE NOW WHERE WE HAVE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS AND ELDER
LAW LEGAL SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS AND -- AND SURROGATE'S JUDGES TELLING US
THAT THE CURRENT LAW IS EXTREMELY PROBLEMATIC AND THERE'S ABSOLUTE
INJUSTICE AND WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO UPDATE NEW YORK'S
ANTIQUATED LAW.
MR. GOODELL: AND I -- I THINK MY COLLEAGUE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AGREED WITH ALL THAT BUT HAD SPECIFIC ISSUES WHETHER OR NOT THIS SOLUTION
WAS THE RIGHT SOLUTION. UM --
MS. WALLACE: BUT AGAIN, THIS SOLUTION IS
CONSISTENT WITH THE SOLUTION BY THE VAST MAJORITY OF STATES THAT FOLLOW
THE UNIFORM PROBATE CODE.
MR. GOODELL: SO LET ME JUST GIVE YOU AN
EXAMPLE. LET'S SAY YOU HAVE A HUSBAND AND A WIFE. WIFE PUTS ALL THE
MONEY IN, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT NAMES HUSBAND ON THE ACCOUNT.
WHILE THEY'RE ALIVE THE HUSBAND CAN USE THE MONEY, THEY CAN HAVE A
JOINT DEBIT CARD OR -- RIGHT? NO ISSUE, CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: MM-HMM.
MR. GOODELL: AND LET'S SAY IN THAT SCENARIO WIFE
SAYS, UPON MY DEATH I WANT THE MONEY TO GO TO MY ESTATE.
MS. WALLACE: MM-HMM.
MR. GOODELL: THEN SINCE SHE PUT IN ALL THE
MONEY AND SINCE IT'S ALL BASED ON NET INPUT AND OUTPUT, SHE DIES, ALL THE
MONEY GOES TO HER ESTATE, RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: MM-HMM.
MR. GOODELL: BECAUSE HUSBAND DIDN'T PUT IN
ANYTHING, RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: MM-HMM.
MR. GOODELL: OF COURSE THE BANK DOESN'T KNOW
WHEN SHE'S DIED UNLESS SOMEONE TELLS THEM.
MS. WALLACE: RIGHT.
MR. GOODELL: AND UNTIL THEY'RE TOLD THE HUSBAND
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CAN USE WHATEVER HE WANTS.
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO NOW LET'S SAY THE
HUSBAND AT SOME POINT STARTS PUTTING SOME MONEY IN, TAKING SOME
MONEY OUT. THEY MAY HAVE JOINT ACCOUNTS, RIGHT? MANY OF US HAVE
JOINT TELEPHONE ACCOUNTS, UTILITY ACCOUNTS, ALL KINDS OF JOINT ACCOUNTS.
HOUSE -- WE HIRE A FORENSIC ACCOUNTANT THEN AND GO BACK THROUGH THE
ENTIRE 20-YEAR HISTORY TO SEE WHO PUT IN WHAT AND WHO TOOK OUT WHAT?
MS. WALLACE: NO. THE ESTATE -- THE PERSON WHO IS
BENEFITTING UNDER THE ESTATE COULD SAY -- YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY THERE'S
$100,000 LEFT. THAT'S MY $100,000. YOU -- YOU'RE NOT ENTITLED TO IT.
HE SAYS OH, NO. I'M ENTITLED TO $20,000 BECAUSE WE HAVE THESE
OUTSTANDING JOINT BILLS. THE COURT WOULD SAY YES OR NO, WHATEVER. AND
IF THEY COULD AGREE ON IT THERE WOULDN'T REALLY EVEN NEED TO BE
ANYTHING. IF THEY NEEDED IT TO TAKE IT TO COURT, THE JUDGE WOULD SAY, YOU
KNOW, IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY, YOU HAVE TO GIVE EITHER 100,000 OR 80,000
OR WHATEVER THE COURT DETERMINES BACK TO THE -- TO THE ESTATE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THOSE
CLARIFYING COMMENTS.
SIR, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON THE BILL, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: I AGREE WITH BOTH OF MY COLLEAGUES
THAT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF THE SIGNATURE CARDS WHEN WE OPEN UP THESE
ACCOUNTS CLEARLY SPECIFY WHAT EACH PARTY WANTS. THE CHALLENGE THAT WE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
HAVE IS IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE WE ABANDON THE CONCEPT I GUESS
OF COTTON TRUST OR REQUIRED IT TO BE PUT IN PLACE AND FOR THOSE WHO DON'T
KNOW, NEW YORK STATE LED THE NATION IN 1904 WITH A COTTON TRUST THAT
DEFINED HOW SOME OF THESE ACCOUNTS ARE ADDRESSED. IF WE ABANDONED
THAT 120-YEAR HISTORY AND COME UP WITH A NEW APPROACH, WE NEED TO
RECOGNIZE THAT WHEN SOMEONE DIES OFTEN WITH A JOINT ACCOUNT, OFTEN THE
OTHER ACCOUNT HOLDER NEEDS TO HAVE ACCESS TO THAT MONEY RIGHT AWAY. I
MEAN IF YOU HAVE A HUSBAND AND WIFE AND THEY PUT ALL THEIR MONEY INTO
THIS. A HUSBAND NEEDS ACCESS TO THAT MONEY IF THE WIFE DIES FIRST OR
VICE VERSA, THE WIFE NEEDS TO ACCESS TO THAT MONEY IF THE HUSBAND DIES
FIRST. AND SO THE HUSBAND DIES AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH SHE CAN
ACCESS? THERE'S NO OBLIGATION TO NOTIFY THE BANK? AND IF YOU DO
NOTIFY THE BANK AND THEY HAVE SOME -- ONE OF THEM OR BOTH OF THEM SAY
"MY ESTATE" AND WE HAVE TO HIRE FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT PERCENT OF THE ESTATE THEY OWN, AND IF THEY'VE OWNED THE ACCOUNT
TOGETHER FOR 40 YEARS, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO GO BACK 40 YEARS AND SAY HEY,
WAIT. YOU PUT IN $10, YEAH, BUT YOU TOOK OUT 7, YEAH, WELL, YOU PUT IN
1,000, YOU PUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. AND IN THE MEANTIME THE
ACCOUNT COULD BE FROZEN AND THE HUSBAND CAN'T PAY THE UTILITIES OR THE
WIFE CAN'T PAY THE UTILITIES OR PAY FOR THE FUNERAL EXPENSES, AND WHO'S
GOING TO GO BACK AND COUNT HOW MUCH EACH PERSON'S SOCIAL SECURITY OR
401K WAS? SO WE HAVE -- WE HAVE A PROBLEM THAT EVERYONE HERE
AGREES ON. WE ALL AGREE THAT SIMPLIFYING THESE CARDS AND MAKING IT
CLEAR IS A GOOD IDEA. THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE REST OF THE BILL THAT
CREATES MORE VERY DIFFICULT ISSUES THAT WE SHOULD FIGURE OUT BEFORE WE
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MAKE IT THE LAW. AND FOR THAT REASON I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S
DESIRE TO MAKE THIS CLEAR. I APPRECIATE MY COMMENTS FROM OUR RANKER
WHO UNDERSTANDS THIS BETTER THAN I DO, BUT WE NEED TO SOLVE THESE VERY,
VERY SERIOUS ISSUES BEFORE WE CHANGE THE WAY WE HANDLE THESE
ACCOUNTS. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. MCGOWAN.
MR. MCGOWAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: YES, THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. MCGOWAN: I PROMISE I WILL NOT -- I'LL REALLY
TRY NOT TO GO INTO TOPICS OR ANY AREAS THAT WERE ALREADY COVERED. I JUST
-- I HAVE A COUPLE OF CLARIFYING POINTS. I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE
CARD. SO THE CARD IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED FOR EACH ACCOUNT WHERE YOU
HAVE MORE THAN ONE OWNER OF EVERY BANK ACCOUNT IN NEW YORK STATE?
(PAUSE)
MS. WALLACE: YEAH, IF THERE'S MORE THAN ONE
OWNER OR IF THERE'S AN OWNER AND SOMEBODY WANTS TO PUT AN AUTHORIZED
SIGNER ON IT.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO THE AUTHORIZED SIGNER,
THAT'S SOMEBODY FOR CONVENIENCE PURPOSES?
MS. WALLACE: CORRECT.
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MR. MCGOWAN: WHO WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THE
ACCOUNT, WHO CAN DRAW FROM THE ACCOUNT, CAN UTILIZE THE ACCOUNT?
MS. WALLACE: CORRECT.
MR. MCGOWAN: BUT IS ACTIVELY SELECTED BY THE
OWNER TO NOT HAVE RIGHT OF SURVIVORSHIP, CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: THEY DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS.
THEY'RE ONLY SUPPOSED TO USE THAT MONEY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE OWNER.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. AND ESSENTIALLY UNDER
CURRENT LAW, YOU CAN HAVE A JOINT ACCOUNT WHERE EFFECTIVELY, YOU
KNOW, ONE OWNER HAS CONTRIBUTED 100 PERCENT OF THE FUNDS TO THAT
ACCOUNT AND MAY HAVE ANOTHER -- ANOTHER ACCOUNT OWNER THAT HASN'T
CONTRIBUTED ANYTHING BUT CAN WRITE CHECKS AND CAN UTILIZE THOSE FUNDS
AND ESSENTIALLY ACT IN A CONVENIENCE CAPACITY FOR THE OWNER, CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: NO, NO, THAT'S THE PROBLEM. THERE
ISN'T -- THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN UNDER CURRENT LAW. SO RIGHT NOW UNDER
CURRENT LAW, I MIGHT THINK THAT I'M PUTTING SOMEBODY ON FOR THE
CONVENIENCE, BUT UNDER THE LAW I'M AUTOMATICALLY GIFTING THEM HALF THE
MONEY IN THAT ACCOUNT AND I'M GIVING THEM THE RIGHT OF SURVIVORSHIP.
MR. MCGOWAN: WELL, AN ARGUMENT CAN BE MADE
AND IN FACT THAT IS LITIGATED IN COURTS WHETHER AN ACCOUNT TRULY IS AN
ACCOUNT OF JOINT SURVIVORSHIP OR A MERE CONVENIENCE ACCOUNT. THAT IS
AN ISSUE THAT IS LITIGATED IN NEW YORK COURTS TODAY; WOULD YOU AGREE?
MS. WALLACE: NO. WELL, THE PROBLEM IS THERE IS
NO CONVENIENCE ACCOUNT BEING OFFERED. THE BANKS DON'T OFFER IT. WE
ACTUALLY CREATED A STATUTE, THEY GAVE THEM THE OPTION TO DO IT, BUT THEY
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HAD TOLD US UNEQUIVOCALLY WE DON'T OFFER IT, WE DONT WANT TO BE
BOTHERED WITH IT AND THIS PROVIDES ALMOST LIKE REQUIRES THEM TO GIVE
SOMEBODY THAT OPTION BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DOING A CONVENIENCE
ACCOUNT OR WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO (INAUDIBLE) A CONVENIENCE ACCOUNT
BUT IT'S NOT. IT ACTUALLY IS THIS MOIETY RULE WITH A JOINT WITH THE RIGHT OF
SURVIVORSHIP WHICH IS -- RESULTS IN INJUSTICE BECAUSE THEN WHAT HAPPENS
IS, YOU KNOW, THE KIDS SAY HEY, YOU KNOW, WE WANT THE MONEY THAT'S IN
THE ACCOUNT AND THEN THE PERSON WHO HAS INHERITED SAYS NO WAY, I'M
NOT GIVING IT UP AND THE COURTS ARE POWERLESS TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
MR. MCGOWAN: WELL, UNDERSTANDABLY, BUT
SOMEONE COULD STILL CLAIM ON BEHALF OF THE ESTATE, FOR INSTANCE, OF WHAT
--
MS. WALLACE: THEY WOULD LOSE.
MR. MCGOWAN: WELL, I'M NOT SURE THEY WOULD. I
--
MS. WALLACE: THEY WOULD BECAUSE IT PASSES
OUTSIDE THE ESTATE, THAT'S THE PROBLEM. THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING
TO SOLVE.
MR. MCGOWAN: I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT SOMEONE
COULD, UNDER CURRENT LAW, START A TURNOVER PROCEEDING ON BEHALF OF THE
ESTATE TO TRY TO RECOVER THOSE FUNDS IF IN FACT MAKING A CLAIM THAT IT WAS
NOT A TRUE ACCOUNT WITH RIGHT OF SURVIVORSHIP. IT WAS UTILIZED MERELY
FOR CONVENIENCE PURPOSES. THAT -- THAT CAUSE OF ACTION, THAT CLAIM DOES
EXIST UNDER NEW YORK LAW; WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME?
MS. WALLACE: ACCORDING TO SURROGATE'S JUDGES
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THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT HAS REPEATEDLY HAPPENED BECAUSE PEOPLE -- MANY
TIMES THEY ARE WITHOUT THE ABILITY, YOU KNOW, THEY KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT
WHAT THE PERSON HAS INTENDED --
MR. MCGOWAN: I AGREE.
MS. WALLACE: -- BUT THEY WERE WITHOUT THE ABILITY
TO, YOU KNOW, PULL THE FUND -- PULL THE MONEY BACK INTO THE ESTATE.
MR. MCGOWAN: RIGHT, AND I AGREE WITH YOU THAT
IT'S A PROBLEM AND IT DOES NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. I THINK ALL OF MY
COLLEAGUES WHO SPOKE AGREE WITH THAT. BUT LET ME -- LET ME ASK YOU
ABOUT THE -- THE CARD ITSELF. I UNDERSTAND FROM THE BILL LANGUAGE IT HAS
TO -- IT REQUIRES A NOTARY OF BOTH WHETHER IT'S AN AUTHORIZED -- EITHER ONE
OR MORE OWNERS OR THE OWNER AND THE AUTHORIZED SIGNATORY, CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, THE ACCOUNT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S
JUST A SIMPLE FORM THAT YOU WOULD FILL OUT WHEN YOU'RE OPENING AN
ACCOUNT. IF YOU'RE OPENING IT AT THE BANK YOU DON'T NEED A NOTARY.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY.
MS. WALLACE: THE REASON FOR THE NOTARY WAS TO
GIVE PROTECTION IF YOU WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, DO IT OUTSIDE THE BANK SO
THAT WE KNOW WHO WAS ACTUALLY SIGNING IT.
MR. MCGOWAN: GOT IT. SO EXECUTED OUTSIDE THE
BANK, NEED A NOTARY, IF IT'S DONE WITHIN THE BANK IT'S WITNESSED BY A
BANK OFFICIAL?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. MCGOWAN: IS THERE ANY DOCUMENT OR NOTATION
THAT THE BANK OFFICIAL EXECUTES?
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MS. WALLACE: I WOULD IMAGINE THEY WOULD. I
MEAN I'D IMAGINE THEY WOULD MAKE CLEAR BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T ACCEPT
IT WITHOUT A NOTARY IF IT WASN'T DONE RIGHT THERE AT THE BANK. THEY
SHOULDN'T.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO IT'S (INAUDIBLE) IN THE
BANK. NO NOTARY. NO NOTARY REQUIRED.
MS. WALLACE: RIGHT.
MR. MCGOWAN: IS THERE ANY INDICATION EITHER ON
THIS SIGNATURE CARD OR ON ANOTHER DOCUMENT PERHAPS OR ANYWHERE ELSE,
DOES THE BILL SPEAK TO WITNESSING VIA BANK OFFICIAL OR EMPLOYEE?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, IT JUST --
MR. MCGOWAN: DOES IT JUST SAY THAT IT WAS SIGNED
AT THE BANK?
MS. WALLACE: SO IF IT'S SIGNED AT THE BANK, THE
BANK DOESN'T NEED TO NOTARIZE IT AND THE BANK KNOWS THAT --
MR. MCGOWAN: I UNDERSTAND THAT.
MS. WALLACE: -- THE BANK KNOWS IT'S BEING SIGNED
AT THE BANK, KNOWS IT'S BEING SIGNED AT THE BANK. IF THEY WANT TO PUT
SOMETHING ON THE FORM, THEY CERTAINLY CAN DO THAT TO PROTECT
THEMSELVES, BUT THERE'S NOTHING REQUIRING IT AND THE BANK SHOULDN'T BE
ACCEPTING A CARD WITHOUT THE NOTARY UNDER THE LAW, IF IT WAS DONE
OUTSIDE THE BANK.
MR. MCGOWAN: HANG ON. THERE'S A LOT -- THERE'S A
LOT HERE. THERE'S A LOT TO UNPACK IN THIS BILL --
MS. WALLACE: OKAY.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. MCGOWAN: -- WHICH I THINK IS WHY ALL THIS
DISCOURSE AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND INDULGENCE IN THESE
QUESTIONS. IF SIGNED AT THE BANK, THE SIGNATURE CARD, NO NOTARY, SO IT'S
JUST -- THE SIGNATURE CARD WOULD BEAR THE SIGNATURES OF WHOEVER, EITHER
THE BOTH OWNERS, OR THE OWNER AND THE AUTHORIZED SIGNATORY, CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: YEAH. WELL, RIGHT NOW THERE'S NO
-- WHEN YOU FILL OUT ANY ACCOUNT FORM AT A BANK THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT
FOR A NOTARY. THE BANK, YOU KNOW --
MR. MCGOWAN: I UNDERSTAND.
MS. WALLACE: OKAY.
MR. MCGOWAN: I'M NOT -- I'M ASKING ABOUT THIS
BILL. THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING. SO I'M SAYING THERE'S AN EXTRA REQUIREMENT
IF EXECUTED OUTSIDE THE BANK WHICH IS A NOTARY, CORRECT?
MS. WALLACE: YEAH, BUT THAT'S FOR THE PROTECTION
OF THE OWNERS.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. AND THERE'S NOTHING,
THERE'S NO OTHER -- ARE WE -- UNDER THIS BILL, UNDER THIS LEGISLATION THAT'S
BEING DISCUSSED RIGHT NOW, DO WE KNOW THE IDENTITY OF ANY WITNESSES
FROM THE BANK WHO WITNESS THESE SIGNATURES?
MS. WALLACE: NO MORE THAN YOU WOULD UNDER
EXISTING LAW WHEN YOU FILL OUT A SIGNATURE CARD.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO THE ANSWER'S NO, RIGHT?
MS. WALLACE: DOESN'T CHANGE EXISTING LAW IN THAT
REGARD.
MR. MCGOWAN: WELL, RESPECTFULLY IN THE INTEREST
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OF LEGISLATION IT DOES CHANGE. SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF THIS IS --
WHAT'S CONTAINED IN THIS BILL. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT EXISTING LAW, I'M
TALKING ABOUT THIS BILL. SO THE ANSWER IS NO, THERE IS NO INDICATION. SO
THE POINT I'M TRYING -- THE QUESTION I HAVE AND WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO,
YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY WHAT IF THERE'S A DISPUTE, RIGHT, BY THE ESTATE OR
BY SOMEONE ELSE, RIGHT. YOU'VE GOT THIS AUTHORIZED SIGNATORY ON THE
BANK WHO IS -- WHO HAS THE ABILITY, RIGHT. HAS THE ABILITY TO USE THOSE
FUNDS, TO MAKE TRANSACTIONS, WITHDRAW DEPOSIT, WHATEVER AND THERE
COULD BE A DISPUTE FROM THE ESTATE OR LATER ON THERE COULD BE LITIGATION.
AND I'M TRYING TO GET TO LIKE, DOES THIS CARD, OTHER THAN THE SIGNATURES
OF AGAIN, WHETHER IT'S BOTH OWNERS OR THE OWNER AND THE SIGNATORY,
AUTHORIZED SIGNER, IS THERE ANY OTHER REQUIREMENTS UNDER THIS LAW TO
ESSENTIALLY ESTABLISH WHAT THE PARTIES WERE SIGNING AT THE BANK? I
UNDERSTAND THE NOTARY OUTSIDE OF THE BANK, BUT THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING.
LIKE, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT'S REQUIRED UNDER THIS BILL TO HELP
ESTABLISH THAT THE PARTIES ESSENTIALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING?
MS. WALLACE: WELL, IT'S BEING FILLED OUT AT THE
BANK.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY.
MS. WALLACE: AND THERE'S -- A, THERE'S NOTHING
PROHIBITING THE BANK FROM, LIKE, YOU KNOW, PUTTING SOMETHING ON THE
FORM IF THEY WANT TO DO THAT. THERE'S NOTHING REQUIRED RIGHT NOW, BUT I
WOULD IMAGINE IN THE BANK'S, YOU KNOW, ORDINARY COURSE OF
RECORDKEEPING THEY WOULD HAVE A WAY TO ASCERTAIN WHETHER IT WAS
FILLED OUT AT THE BANK OR NOT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO THAT WOULD BE UP TO
PERHAPS REGULATION LATER ON OR UP TO THE BANKS TO DECIDE --
MS. WALLACE: I WOULD IMAGINE A BANK WOULD BE
ABLE TO TELL YOU WHETHER IT WAS FILLED OUT AT THE BANK OR NOT.
MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. I HAD ANOTHER QUESTION BUT
I THINK WE'VE DONE -- I THINK WE'VE DONE ENOUGH. THANK YOU FOR YOUR
TIME. I APPRECIATE IT.
MS. WALLACE: THANK YOU.
MR. MCGOWAN: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. MCGOWAN: THERE'S -- THERE'S CERTAINLY AN
ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED BY THE BILL SPONSOR AND I APPRECIATE HER
WILLINGNESS TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS. THIS IS A COMPLEX PIECE OF
LEGISLATION THAT IS GOING TO RESULT IN SIGNIFICANT CHANGES OF NEW YORK
BANKING LAW AND THE STATE LAW. I HAVE LITIGATED THIS ISSUE ABOUT RIGHT
OF SURVIVORSHIP ON -- ON JOINT ACCOUNTS, AND THERE ABSOLUTELY CAN BE A
CLAIM MADE THAT THERE IS NO RIGHT OF SURVIVORSHIP, THERE'S A PRESUMPTION
OF SURVIVORSHIP AND THAT CERTAINLY NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. PEOPLE NEED
TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE -- WHAT THEY'RE DOING, WHAT THEY'RE
AGREEING. BUT IT DOESN'T APPEAR FROM THIS BILL, THE LEGISLATION AS
CURRENTLY DRAFTED, THAT THE ACCOUNT OWNERS OR AUTHORIZED SIGNATORIES ARE
NECESSARILY PROVIDED INFORMATION OR TOLD OR MADE KNOWN OF WHAT
THEY'RE DOING AND NOW YOU'RE HAVING A CARD SIGNED AT A BANK OR IN FRONT
OF A NOTARY OUTSIDE THE BANK THAT'S REALLY JUST VALIDATING THAT THE PERSON
SIGNING IS IN FACT THE IDENTITY OF THE PERSON WHO IS SIGNING THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DOCUMENT, BUT YOU'RE DEALING WITH AN ESTATE PLANNING DOCUMENT,
ESSENTIALLY IS WHAT IT IS BECAUSE IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE CONVEYANCE OR
TRANSFER OF ASSETS UPON THE DEATH OF A PERSON THAT IS OUTSIDE WHAT, YOU
KNOW, THE REQUIREMENTS THAT HAVE TO GO INTO A WILL OR OTHER TYPE OF
TRUST OR STATE DOCUMENTS -- ESTATE PLANNING DOCUMENTS. SO I THINK
THERE'S -- THERE'S SEVERAL PIECES TO THIS LEGISLATION THAT I THINK NEED A BIT
OF A CLOSER LOOK. I THINK IT'S WELL-INTENDED. I THINK THERE IS AN ISSUE
THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED HERE, BUT I THINK THERE ARE SO MANY AREAS
THAT -- THAT HAVE TO BE DISSECTED A LITTLE FURTHER BEFORE THIS -- THIS BILL
CAN GO FORWARD, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO RESULT IN LESS
LITIGATION OR CLARITY AS TO WHO GETS THE ASSETS UPON THE DEATH OF A
PERSON, ONE OF THE ACCOUNT OWNERS. THIS IS GOING TO RESULT IN -- IN
FURTHER LITIGATION FROM MY COLLEAGUES RAISING ADDITIONAL ISSUES WITH THE
AUTHORIZED SIGNATURE, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY DISAGREEING WITH THE
ACCOUNT OWNER AND WHERE THE ASSETS SHOULD GO AND THERE'S A MYRIAD
NUMBER OF THINGS THAT CAN COME UP FROM THIS, WHICH I GUESS HAPPENS
WITH ANY LEGISLATION. LITIGATION IS -- IS OFTEN THE RESULT OF WHAT WE DO
IN THIS ROOM. BUT THIS SO COMPLEX AND I THINK THERE'S JUST SEVERAL
PIECES THAT NEED TO BE PERHAPS WORKED OUT A LITTLE FURTHER BEFORE IT CAN
GO FORWARD.
SO I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE. IT CERTAINLY IS -- WE DO
NEED THIS, SOME VERSION OF THIS, BUT I'M NOT SURE THIS QUITE HITS THE
MARK BASED UPON MY REVIEW AND THE COMMENTS AND DISCUSSION SHARED
THIS AFTERNOON. SO THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. JENSEN.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR TWO QUESTIONS? I PROMISE TWO QUESTIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALLACE, WILL
YOU YIELD?
MS. WALLACE: YES.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE
UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY. DID YOU SAY THAT BOTH OWNERS OF THE JOINT
ACCOUNT WOULD HAVE TO AGREE AS TO WHERE THEY WANT THEIR MONEY TO GO
AFTER THEY DIE?
MS. WALLACE: BOTH OWNERS WOULD HAVE TO AGREE
THAT EITHER THE MONEY WOULD GO TO THEIR ESTATE OR THEIR MONEY WOULD GO
TO EACH OTHER, OKAY?
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. SO IF THEY DON'T AGREE, WOULD
THAT ENTIRE FORM BE DISQUALIFIED?
MS. WALLACE: I GUESS YOU'D FILL OUT -- YOU'D DO A
DIFFERENT ACCOUNT.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JULY 1ST,
2025.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL. THOSE WHO WISH TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SUPPORT IT SHOULD CERTAINLY VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, THE
DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF THIS; HOWEVER, THERE
MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL
FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. WALLACE TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. WALLACE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WITH
THIS BILL, WE ARE BRINGING NEW YORK'S ANTIQUATED BANKING LAW
REGARDING JOINT ACCOUNTS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF
STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THE UNIFORM PROBATE CODE. IN DOING SO,
WE ARE SEEKING TO ELIMINATE AN INJUSTICE THAT HAS OCCURRED UNDER
CURRENT LAW WHERE OWNERS OF THE BANK ACCOUNTS WHO MIGHT ADD A
NEIGHBOR, A FRIEND OR A RELATIVE TO THEIR BANK ACCOUNT FOR THEIR
CONVENIENCE INADVERTENTLY WIND UP GIFTING HALF OF THAT MONEY TO THAT
PERSON AND THEN ALL OF THAT MONEY UPON THEIR DEATH. MOST FOLKS IN
NEW YORK STATE WHO GO TO A BANK TO SET UP A JOINT ACCOUNT DON'T
REALIZE THE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS OF THEIR -- OF ADDING SOMEONE TO THE
ACCOUNT. THIS HAS LED TO TERRIBLE INJUSTICE PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD TO
ELDERLY INDIVIDUALS NAMING SOMEONE FOR CONVENIENCE PURPOSES, NOT
REALIZING THAT THEY HAD JUST GIFTED HALF OF THE MONEY IN THE ACCOUNT
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DURING THEIR LIFETIME AND ALL THE MONEY IN THE ACCOUNT WHEN THEY PASS,
AND BANKS HAVE NOT BEEN INFORMING THESE FOLKS OF THE LEGAL
IMPLICATIONS. SO THIS LEGISLATION REQUIRES BANKS TO USE A FORM THAT WE
HAVE DRAFTED THAT CLEARLY SPELLS OUT WHAT THE OWNER INTENDS WHEN HE OR
SHE SETS UP THE ACCOUNT. EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM AGREES THAT THERE'S A
PROBLEM AND 22 OTHER STATES HAVE AGREED ON A SOLUTION AND THIS IS THE
SOLUTION THAT THEY'VE AGREED UPON. THIS LEGISLATION EMPOWERS AND
PROTECTS ACCOUNT OWNERS TO MAKE KNOWING DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES
AND CLARIFIES THAT WHEN SOMEONE IS ADDED AS AN AUTHORIZED SIGNER THAT
PERSON CAN WRITE CHECKS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE OWNER BUT THEY HAVE NO
LEGAL RIGHT TO THE PROPERTY. THIS LEGISLATION WAS CRAFTED IN RESPONSE TO
COMPLAINTS FROM SURROGATE'S JUDGES, CIVIL LEGAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT ASSIST
SENIORS AND DISTRICT ATTORNEYS, ALL OF WHOM HAVE SEEN EXISTING LAW
LEAVING OWNERS VULNERABLE TO THEFT AND FRAUD. I'M SO PROUD TO HAVE
WORKED ON THIS LEGISLATION. I'M CONFIDENT THAT IT WILL SPARE MANY
SENIORS AND THEIR FAMILIES THE HEARTBREAK AND INJUSTICE THAT HAS
OCCURRED UNDER THE CURRENT LAW AND PROVIDES THEM WITH THE
INFORMATION THAT THEY NEED TO PROTECT THEIR ASSETS DURING THEIR LIFETIME
AND UPON THEIR DEATH. AND I JUST WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK THE
AMAZING STAFF WHO HELPED ME WORK ON THIS COMPREHENSIVE BILL -
MICHAEL SULLIVAN, KIRSTEN NUNEZ AND MATT HENNING. THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. I PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALLACE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. CURRAN.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. CURRAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN
MY VOTE REAL QUICKLY. FIRST OFF, THE SPONSOR DID REFERENCE OTHER STATES
THAT HAVE TRIED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS AND TWO OF THE STATES THAT WERE MOST
PROACTIVE, THAT'S TEXAS AND NORTH CAROLINA. THEY ACTUALLY DID PART OF
WHAT THE SPONSOR IS TRYING TO DO AND WHAT I SPELLED OUT AND THAT IS HAVE
A FORM THAT SAYS, MAKE YOUR DETERMINATION WHERE YOU WANT YOUR ASSETS
TO GO. THOSE TWO STATES AFFIRMATIVELY DID THAT. THEY DID NOT INCLUDE IN
THAT DOCUMENT THIRD-PARTY AUTHORIZED SIGNERS, WHICH IS THE REAL
PROBLEM TO THIS BILL. IT ALLOWS A THIRD-PARTY WHO IS NOT A FIDUCIARY TO
THE JOINT OWNERS TO MAKE DECISIONS ON TRANSFERRING FUNDS AFTER A PERSON
IS EITHER INCAPACITATED, DEEMED INCAPACITATED OR DIES AND THEIR ABILITY
TO MAKE TRANSACTIONS ON THAT ACCOUNT SURVIVES BOTH OF THOSE, WHICH
OPENS UP TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITIES FOR FRAUD AND ILLEGAL TRANSACTIONS.
FOR THOSE REASONS AND THE REASONS STATED BY MY COLLEAGUES IN THE
DEBATE, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT I WOULD BE VOTING AGAINST THIS
LEGISLATION. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. CURRAN IN THE
NEGATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 10, RULES REPORT NO. 401, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08907-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 401, BRONSON, LEVENBERG, STECK, SHRESTHA, SEAWRIGHT,
SIMON, LUPARDO, O'DONNELL, BRABENEC, OTIS, SHIMSKY, GLICK, TAPIA,
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARDILA, HEVESI, BURDICK, BURGOS, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, EACHUS, CRUZ,
ROZIC, SANTABARBARA, HUNTER, DAVILA, TAYLOR, KELLES, REYES, RAGA,
BRAUNSTEIN, DINOWITZ, COOK, COLTON, L. ROSENTHAL, LUCAS, JACOBSON,
RAMOS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING
THE WAREHOUSE WORKER INJURY REDUCTION PROGRAM.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BRONSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
MR. GOODELL -- AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MR.
BRONSON.
MR. BRONSON: YES, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL WOULD
REQUIRE CERTAIN EMPLOYERS OF WAREHOUSE WORKERS TO ESTABLISH AN INJURY
REDUCTION PROGRAM TO IDENTIFY AND MINIMIZE THE RISK OF INJURIES AMONG
WORKERS INVOLVING AND PERFORMING MANUAL MATERIALS HANDLING TASK.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WILL YOU YIELD, MR.
BRONSON?
MR. BRONSON: YES, I WILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. BRONSON. I SEE
THIS LEGISLATION REQUIRES A NUMBER OF STEPS. FIRST, A WRITTEN WORK SITE
EVALUATION BY A QUALIFIED (INAUDIBLE) FOR RISK FACTORS, OBLIGATION TO
CORRECT ANY IDENTIFIED ISSUES AND ENTRY REDUCTION TRAINING PROGRAM. IT
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ALSO TALKS ABOUT ON SITE MEDICAL OFFICER FIRST AID STATION. IS THE ON SITE
MEDICAL OFFICE OR FIRST AID STATION MANDATED OR IS IT SIMPLY OPTIONAL?
MR. BRONSON: IT'S -- IT'S OPTIONAL. IT'S ONLY IF THE
WAREHOUSE ALREADY HAS ONE. IT REQUIRES MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS.
MR. GOODELL: SO YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE UNLESS YOU
MEET THESE STANDARDS?
MR. BRONSON: NO. IF YOU HAVE ONE, THEN IT HAS TO
HAVE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THAT ON SITE MEDICAL
SERVICE.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. WE ALREADY HAVE, OF COURSE,
SEVERAL OTHER STATUTES DEALING WITH SAFETY INCLUDING THE 2023
WAREHOUSE WORKER PROTECTION ACT.
MR. BRONSON: THIS IS -- THIS IS AN EXTENSION OF
THAT.
MR. GOODELL: AND WE ALSO HAVE OSHA, OF
COURSE.
MR. BRONSON: OF COURSE.
MR. GOODELL: AND IS IT YOUR BELIEF THAT OSHA
STANDARDS ARE INADEQUATE?
MR. BRONSON: WELL, I WILL SHARE SOME STATISTICS
WITH YOU TO SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS WE NEED MORE, AND THAT IS WITH THE
RISE OF E-COMMERCE NEW YORK'S WAREHOUSING INDUSTRY IS GROWING
RAPIDLY, AND IN CONNECTION WITH THAT SO ARE THE INJURIES. ONE IN 11
NEW YORK WAREHOUSE WORKERS ARE INJURED EVERY YEAR. NEW YORK'S
WAREHOUSE INJURY RATE IS 54 PERCENT HIGHER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AND THE CRISIS IS EVEN GETTING WORSE. SO 89 PERCENT OF INJURIES REQUIRE
MISSED WORK OR JOB TRANSFERS WHICH COST EMPLOYERS A LOT OF MONEY
COMPARED TO 60 PERCENT IN 2017. SO THE INDUSTRY IS EXPANDING AND
CLEARLY GIVEN THOSE KIND OF STATISTICS WE NEED TO DO MORE BOTH TO
PROTECT THE WORKERS, BUT ALSO TO HELP TO REDUCE COST TO THE EMPLOYER
BECAUSE OF ABSENTEEISM, BECAUSE OF WORKERS' COMP AND THINGS OF THAT
NATURE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. BRONSON.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
MR. BRONSON: THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR.
GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: NO DOUBT OUR EMPLOYERS WANT TO
REDUCE THEIR COST AND I HAVE GREAT CONFIDENCE THAT THEY'RE VERY SENSITIVE
TO THESE COSTS AND ARE ACTING IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER BY AND LARGE. I
AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE STATISTICS MENTIONED BY MY COLLEAGUE AND I
THINK THAT A LOT OF PROVISIONS OF THIS BILL MAKE SENSE INCLUDING WORK
SITE EVALUATIONS, TRAINING PROGRAMS AND SAFETY PROTOCOLS. MY CONCERN
IS THAT TYPICAL NEW YORK, WE DON'T JUST SAY YOU OUGHT TO HAVE
APPROPRIATE SAFETY PROTOCOLS. WE SAY IF YOU HAVE A FIRST AID STATION YOU
HAVE TO MAN IT WITH EXPENSIVE PROFESSIONALS. AND SOMETIMES OUR
QUEST TO BE THE BEST GETS IN THE WAY OF BEING BETTER. WAREHOUSING IS AN
IMPORTANT INDUSTRY IN NEW YORK AND WE WANT TO BE CAREFUL THAT WE
DON'T DRIVE IT OUT. THE BUSINESS COUNCIL IN THEIR MEMO OF OPPOSITION
STATED THAT THIS BILL IMPOSES A SIGNIFICANT ADMINISTRATIVE AND FINANCIAL
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
OBLIGATIONS ON EMPLOYERS THAT DUPLICATE OSHA STANDARDS AND FEDERAL
SAFETY STANDARDS AND WILL NOT -- WILL ONLY CONTRIBUTE TO THE PERCEPTION
OF NEW YORK NOT BEING BUSINESS-FRIENDLY.
SO I EXPECT THAT MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL BE
SUPPORTING IT AND THERE ARE, AS WE MENTIONED, SEVERAL GOOD POINTS. WE
NEED TO BE SENSITIVE THAT WE DON'T SOLVE WAREHOUSE INJURY ISSUES IN
NEW YORK BY DRIVING WAREHOUSES OUT OF NEW YORK. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JUNE 1ST,
2025.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 14, RULES REPORT NO. 473, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10461, RULES REPORT
NO. 473, COMMITTEES ON RULES - SIMONE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO CO-PAYMENTS OF PRE-EXPOSURE OR
POST-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SIMONE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
MR. JENSEN ASKED FOR AN EXPLANATION, MR. SIMONE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. SIMONE: YES, MR. JENSEN. THIS BILL -- THE
PURPOSE OF THIS BILL IS TO CLARIFY UNDER THE INSURANCE LAW THAT INSURERS
CANNOT IMPOSE CO-PAYMENTS ON PRE-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS PREP UNDER
CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. JENSEN.
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL MR.
SIMONE YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?
MR. SIMONE: YES, OF COURSE, I'LL YIELD.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, SIR. SO THIS LEGISLATION IN
COVERING OR WAIVING CO-PAYS FOR PREP AS LONG AS THE DRUG IS AN A OR B
RECOMMENDATION FROM THE UNITED STATES PREVENTATIVE SERVICE TASK
FORCE WOULD ONLY PERTAIN TO FULLY INSURED POLICIES, WHICH ARE
PURCHASED BY EITHER INDIVIDUALS WHO PURCHASE THEIR COVERAGE ON THEIR
OWN OR RECEIVE IT THROUGH A SMALL OR MEDIUM-SIZED BUSINESS, CORRECT?
MR. SIMONE: YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. WITH 50 PERCENT OF THE MARKET
ENROLLED IN A SELF-INSURED PLAN, WHICH IS GOVERNED BY A FEDERAL
PROGRAM ERISA AND IT'S NOT COVERED BY STATE-MANDATED BENEFITS, HOW
TRULY IMPACTFUL WILL WAIVING THE CO-PAY FOR THIS PREP ACTUALLY BE?
MR. SIMONE: I MEAN IT'S JUST A START. THAT'S AN IDEA
FOR ANOTHER BILL TO WAIVE ALL CO-PAYS. AS WE KNOW HIV AIDS IS STILL
AMONG US AND AFFECTS MANY PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT. MANY CONSTITUENTS,
MANY OPENLY GAY MEN AND MEN HAVE SEX WITH MEN, MANY
COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, ANYTHING THAT WOULD END THE EPIDEMIC WHICH IS
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE GOAL OF NEW YORK STATE IN MAKING PREP READILY AVAILABLE AND
AFFORDABLE IS A GREAT PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN EXPAND
ON THIS EVENTUALLY.
MR. JENSEN: AND I COULD NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT
AGREE MORE ABOUT THE NEED TO TAKE STEPS TO END THE HIV AND AIDS
EPIDEMIC, BUT WITH IT BEING PREP AND A PROPHYLACTIC FOR TAKING BEFORE
EXPOSURE, THERE'S OTHER MAINTENANCE DRUGS THAT CURRENTLY HAVE A
CO-PAY. SO IF THIS IS BEING TAKEN BEFORE AN EXPOSURE, HOW DOES IT DIFFER
THAN OTHER MAINTENANCE DRUGS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ON THE MARKET THAT DO
HAVE CO-PAYS?
(PAUSE)
MR. SIMONE: YES. THIS WOULD JUST ELIMINATE THE
CO-PAY FOR --
MR. JENSEN: NO, AND I UNDERSTAND. SO ARE WE
CREATING AN UNEQUAL MANDATE ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE HAVE SOME
MAINTENANCE DRUGS REQUIRE A CO-PAY BUT OTHER MAINTENANCE DRUGS, IN
THIS CASE PREP, NOT HAVING A CO-PAY WHERE WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE FOR,
YOU KNOW, JUST TRYING TO MAINTAIN AND ENSURE ONGOING HEALTH, WE'RE
CREATING AN UNEQUAL SYSTEM OF WHERE WE HAVE CO-PAYS AND WHERE WE
DON'T HAVE CO-PAYS.
MR. SIMONE: I DON'T AGREE AND THIS IS A START AND
THAT'S WHY I SUPPORT THE HEALTH ACT AND INSURANCE THAT WOULD COVER
EVERYONE.
MR. JENSEN: FAIR POINT.
MR. SIMONE: SO, YOU KNOW, LOOK. THERE ARE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CO-PAYS FOR MANY MEDICATIONS LIKE HEART MEDICATIONS, I'M FOR THAT AS
WELL. IF YOU INTRODUCED A BILL LIKE THAT I'D GLADLY BE A COSPONSOR TO IT.
MR. JENSEN: I APPRECIATE YOUR WILLINGNESS TO
COSPONSOR A BILL. BUT IS THERE A CONCERN -- WHEN CERTAINLY TALKING
ABOUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CO-PAYS THAT IT DOESN'T COMPLETELY
ELIMINATE THE COST. IT JUST SHIFTS THE COST RATHER THAN A CO-PAY BEING
PAID AT THE TIME OF THE PRESCRIPTION, IT GETS SHIFTED TO THE PREMIUMS THAT
ARE THEN BEING PICKED UP BY ALL POLICYHOLDERS UNDER THAT INSURANCE
PLAN. SO EVEN THE -- THE POLICYHOLDERS WHO MAY NOT BE MEETING THIS
MEDICATION.
(PAUSE)
MR. SIMONE: JUST -- JUST THE -- RIGHT NOW
CO-PAYMENTS ARE ALREADY NOT -- MOST PEOPLE WITH PREP DON'T HAVE
CO-PAYMENTS. WE'RE JUST CLARIFYING THAT IN THIS BILL TO ENSURE THAT FOLKS
ARE NOT BEING CHARGED CO-PAYMENTS.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY. SO TO THAT POINT, THIS IS ALREADY
COVERED BY CURRENT LAW THAT WERE UNDER THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AND
THE PROVISIONS IN THAT LAW. IF THE FEDERAL LEVEL PROHIBIT THE
COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTATIVE CARE THAT MEETS THE UNITED STATES
PREVENTATIVE SERVICE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS. SO HASN'T THIS
ALREADY BEEN PUT IN PLACE FOLLOWED BY HEALTH PLANS AND COVERED
THROUGH A CIRCULAR LETTER BY THE DIVISION OF FINANCIAL SERVICES ON A
CLARIFICATION? AND I ISSUED THAT LETTER, THAT CIRCULAR LETTER IN 2019
MAKING IT CLEAR ABOUT THE CO-PAYS MAKING THIS LEGISLATION UNNECESSARY.
MR. SIMONE: YEAH, YOUR STATEMENT IS CORRECT, BUT
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CLARIFY AND MAKE SURE IT'S ENFORCED. I
OFTEN GET CALLS INCLUDING FROM -- INCLUDING THIS HAPPENS TO ME AND STAFF
WHERE YOU STILL GO TO THE DRUGSTORE AND YOU'RE STILL BEING CHARGED
CO-PAYS AND YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE.
MR. JENSEN: SO COULD SOME OF THAT CONFUSION FOR
THE CONSTITUENTS YOU MENTIONED AND MAYBE OTHER CONSTITUENTS OF
MEMBERS IN THIS HOUSE BE BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FULLY
INSURED POLICIES THAT THIS WOULD APPLY TO RATHER THAN THE SELF-INSURED
POLICIES WHERE COMPANIES ARE PURCHASING ON THEIR OWN AND GRANTING
THAT COVERAGE? COULD THAT BE PART OF THE CONFUSION THAT YOU'RE HEARING
FROM THE FOLKS YOU REPRESENT?
MR. SIMONE: YES.
MR. JENSEN: OKAY, ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH, MR. SIMONE. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND ANSWERS.
MR. SIMONE: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. SIMONE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. SIMONE: MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
ENDING THE HIV EPIDEMIC HAS RIGHTLY BEEN A PRIORITY OF OUR STATE. PRE-
AND POST EXPOSURE PROPHYLACTIC DRUGS, PREP, HAVE DONE SO MUCH TO
TURN THE TIDE AND STOP THE SPREAD OF HIV AIDS. FOR EVERY BARRIER WE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TEAR DOWN TOWARDS ACCESS TO LIFESAVING PREVENTATIVE DRUGS WE ARE ONE
STEP CLOSER TO ENDING THE EPIDEMICS ONCE AND FOR ALL. IT OFTEN EFFECTS
MANY COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AND MANY MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN,
SPECIFICALLY IN MY DISTRICT. THE BILL WOULD ENSURE THAT CO-PAYS ARE
EXPLICITLY BANNED FROM PREP AND PREP PRESCRIPTIONS. CO-PAYS ARE A
BARRIER TO CARE FOR THE MOST VULNERABLE AMONG US. WE LEARNED DURING
COVID THAT THE BEST WAY TO KEEP YOURSELF SAFE IS EVERYONE AROUND YOU
IS KEEPING SAFE. I'M PROUD TO SPONSOR THIS BILL. I COMMEND MY
COLLEAGUES WHO ALSO HAVE MADE A FUTURE WITHOUT HIV/AIDS OUR
PRIORITY. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. SIMONE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. AS THE SPONSOR
NOTED THIS BILL DOESN'T CHANGE APPARENTLY HOW WE CURRENTLY DEAL WITH
THE SUBJECT SO I'M NOT SURE WHY WE'RE HERE DEBATING OR DISCUSSING IT.
I'M VOTING NO NEVERTHELESS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S INAPPROPRIATE FOR US AS A
LEGISLATURE TO DIRECT THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES CANNOT WRITE POLICIES
THAT REQUIRE CO-PAYS -- REQUIRE CO-PAYS FOR SOME DRUGS BUT ALLOW THEM
TO CHARGE CO-PAYS FOR OTHER DRUGS. SO IF YOU'RE TAKING A HEART
MEDICATION OR BLOOD PRESSURE MEDICATION OR IN MY CASE I TAKE DROPS IN
MY EYES EVERY DAY SO I DON'T GO BLIND, ALL THOSE PEOPLE HAVE CO-PAYS
AND IT'S REFLECTED IN THE PREMIUMS THAT WE PAY, AND SO I DON'T ASK ALL OF
YOU TO CONTRIBUTE TO MY CO-PAYS FOR MY GLAUCOMA. BUT THIS BILL
REQUIRES ALL OF US TO PAY FOR THE CO-PAYS FOR SOMEBODY ELSE FOR AN
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTIVITY THAT THEY'RE ENGAGED IN OR THEIR CONDITION. AND SO, YOU KNOW,
OUR CONSTITUENTS REPEATEDLY COMPLAIN TO ME AND I'M SURE TO YOU ABOUT
THE COST OF INSURANCE; YET EVERY TIME WE TURN AROUND WE MAKE THOSE
COSTS HIGHER BY SHIFTING COSTS FROM THOSE WHO WANT TO USE THESE DRUGS
TO EVERYONE ELSE WHO NEITHER WANTS TO NOR NEEDS TO. SO MAYBE WE
SHOULD LET THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY DOES -- DO WHAT IT DOES AND HELP KEEP
OUR RATES LOWER AND LET PEOPLE PAY A MODEST CO-PAY FOR THE DRUGS THEY
NEED AND NOT ASK THE REST OF US TO PAY IT. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IN THE
NEGATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 24 -- MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER -- ACTUALLY
COULD HAVE CONTINUED. WE ARE GOING TO PAGE 24, RULES REPORT NO. 547
BY MR. OTIS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
PAGE 24, RULES REPORT NO. 547, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. 10402-A, RULES REPORT
NO. 547, COMMITTEE ON RULES - OTIS (BORES). AN ACT TO AMEND THE
ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO MATERIALLY DECEPTIVE MEDIA IN POLITICAL
COMMUNICATIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
OTIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. OTIS.
MR. OTIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS IS AN
IMPORTANT PIECE OF HOUSEKEEPING LEGISLATION TO ADDRESS IN -- IN STATUTE
OF A LANGUAGE CORRECTION WE NEEDED TO MAKE FOR A BILL HAVING TO DO
WITH MATERIAL DECEPTIVE MEDIA IN POLITICAL COMMUNICATIONS THAT WAS
INCLUDED IN THE STATE BUDGET. WHAT THIS LEGISLATION DOES IS MAKE SURE
THAT WE ARE PROPERLY PROTECTING BROADCASTERS AND OTHER MEDIA FROM
FALLING UNDER THE RULES FOR DECEPTIVE MEDIA THAT SHOULD NOT APPLY TO
THEM. WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING BY MAKING THIS CORRECTION. GOOD
WORK ON BEHALF OF THE SENATE, THE ASSEMBLY AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE
AND WORKING OUT THE DETAILS. WE'RE SOLVING IT HERE. I VOTE AYE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. OTIS IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THE
SPONSOR'S DESIRE TO CLARIFY THIS BILL. THE ORIGINAL WHICH WAS ONE OF
PROBABLY HUNDREDS OF SUBSTANTIVE BILLS THAT WERE SNUCK INTO THE BUDGET
ORIGINALLY COULD HOLD A PUBLISHER LIABLE IF THEY SHOULD HAD KNOWN THAT
AN ADVERTISEMENT WAS MATERIALLY DECEPTIVE AND THIS CHANGES IT TO
HAVING ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE, WHICH IS A MORE APPROPRIATE FIRST
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AMENDMENT STANDARD. I WOULD NOTE, THOUGH, THAT THERE'S STILL SEVERAL
CHALLENGES ON THIS BECAUSE IT'S NOT CLEAR WHAT'S MEANT BY "MATERIALLY
DECEPTIVE" AND EVEN THOUGH THIS IS NOW TRIGGERED BY ACTUAL NOTICE,
PRESUMABLY IF A CANDIDATE DOESN'T LIKE WHAT HIS OPPONENT IS PUBLISHING
HE COULD SEND A LETTER TO A NEWSPAPER AND SAY, PLEASE INITIATE AN
INVESTIGATION AND THAT WOULD TRIGGER THIS ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE PERSPECTIVE.
AND THEN THERE'S EXCEPTIONS FOR SATIRE OR PARITY. AND, OF COURSE, THAT'S
AN INHERENTLY DIFFICULT AND SOMETIMES SUBJECTIVE STANDARD. AND THEN
FINALLY IT REQUIRES THIS NOTICE TO BE ADDED TO ANY AD OR OTHER TEXT AND IT
SAYS QUOTE, "THIS IMAGE, VIDEO OR AUDIO HAS BEEN MANIPULATED." SO A
VERY INTERESTING FIRST AMENDMENT CHALLENGE TO DECIDE WHAT IS
MATERIALLY DECEPTIVE AS OPPOSED TO SATIRE OR PARITY AND HOW THAT
INTERFACES WITH FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND THE RIGHT TO SAY SOMETHING
OR NOT SAY SOMETHING. CLEARLY ALL OF US AS CANDIDATES OR FORMER
CANDIDATES DO NOT LIKE OR SUPPORT MATERIALLY DECEPTIVE CAMPAIGN
MATERIAL AND HOPEFULLY THIS IS A STEP THAT WE CAN CLARIFY AS WE MOVE
FORWARD TO TRY TO CLEAN UP SOME OF THAT CAMPAIGN MATERIAL THAT IS
CLEARLY INAPPROPRIATE. THANK YOU, SIR. AND THANK YOU TO MY
COLLEAGUE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MR. GOODELL.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD YOU PLEASE
RECOGNIZE MR. NORRIS? HE'S IN THE ROW RIGHT BEHIND ME TOWARD THE
END.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AND GOOD EVENING,
MR. NORRIS. HOW ARE YOU?
MR. NORRIS: I'M VERY WELL, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AND WHAT DO YOU
HAVE TO TELL US?
MR. NORRIS: I WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE AN
IMMEDIATE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IN THE PARLOR FOR A LEGISLATIVE
BRIEFING.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE REPUBLICANS ARE
TO GO TO CONFERENCE IN THE PARLOR AS PER MR. NORRIS'S NOTIFICATION.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU
PLEASE PUT OUR HOUSE AT EASE?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL STAND
AT EASE.
(WHEREUPON, THE HOUSE STOOD AT EASE AT 9:10 P.M.)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME
TO ORDER.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WE ARE
GOING TO CONTINUE OUR WORK ON THE DEBATE CALENDER, BUT PRIOR TO DOING
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THAT, I WANT TO ASK YOU TO PLEASE CALL THE RULES COMMITTEE TO THE
SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: RULES COMMITTEE,
SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM PLEASE, IMMEDIATELY.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR. WE'RE
GOING TO BEGIN WITH 506 BY MS. SOLAGES. THESE ARE ALL RULES REPORTS,
SIR, FOLLOWED BY 511 BY MS. SIMON.. THEN 522 BY MS. ZINERMAN AND
THEN 528 BY MR. SIMONE. TO CONCLUDE ON THIS DEBATE LIST WITH 182,
WHICH IAS A CALENDAR BILL BY MS. GLICK. IN THAT ORDER, MR. SPEAKER.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THANK YOU.
PAGE 17, RULES REPORT NO. 506, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. S08479-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 506, SENATOR MYRIE (SOLAGES, SIMON, THIELE, DARLING, L.
ROSENTHAL, SIMONE, CUNNINGHAM, SAYEGH, STECK, RAMOS, SHRESTHA,
ARDILA, BURGOS, SILLITTI, MEEKS -- A09862A). AN ACT TO AMEND THE
GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING PAYMENT CARD NETWORKS
TO USE CERTAIN MERCHANT CATEGORY-CODES FOR FIREARM MERCHANTS.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: AN EXPLANATION HAS
BEEN REQUESTED, MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL
REQUIRES PAYMENT CARD NETWORKS TO USE CERTAIN MERCHANT -- MERCHANT
CATEGORY CODES, WHICH WE CALL MCC FOR SHORT, FOR FIREARMS AND
AMMUNITION MERCHANTS.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. GOODELL.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WOULD YOU
EXPLAIN TO US WHAT ARE THESE SPECIFIC MERCHANT CATEGORY CODES OR
MCCS?
MS. SOLAGES: SO MCCS ARE -- IT'S A CODE REQUIRED
BY THE IRS AND USUALLY THEY ARE FOUR DIGIT CODES THAT CLASSIFY A
BUSINESS WITHIN A CERTAIN CATEGORY. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU SWIPE YOUR
CARD AND YOU'RE AT TARGET, YOU KNOW, IT'S QUALIFIED AS A, YOU KNOW, A
STORE, A GROCERY STORE WOULD BE QUALIFIED AS A GROCERY STORE IF YOU'RE
BUYING FOOD AT A GROCERY STORE AND SO EVERY BUSINESS AND EVERY ENTITY
HAS A MERCHANT CODE.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND IS THAT -- IS IT ONE
MERCHANT CODE FOR THE ENTIRE STORE?
MS. SOLAGES: SO MOST STORES HAVE ITS OWN
MERCHANT CODES, SO IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF STORE, THE STORE LOCATION
AND CATEGORY. FOR EXAMPLE, A STORE THAT MANY PEOPLE LOVE, FOR
EXAMPLE, TARGET, TARGET SUPERSTORES ARE CLASSIFIED AS GROCERY STORES
AND REGULAR TARGET THAT YOU GO TO ARE CLASSIFIED AS LIKE DISCOUNT STORES.
MR. GOODELL: NOW THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE CERTAIN
STORES TO USE A SPECIFIC MERCHANT CATEGORY CODE THAT IDENTIFIES THE STORE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AS A STORE THAT SELLS AMMUNITION OR GUNS; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: CORRECT, BECAUSE CURRENTLY RIGHT
NOW IF YOU GO INTO A STORE THEY ARE CLASSIFIED AS SPORTING GOODS. SO
RIGHT NOW IF YOU GO INTO A, YOU KNOW, A FIREARM STORE TO PURCHASE, YOU
KNOW, FIREARM AMMUNITION, THEY'LL BE QUALIFIED AS A SPORTING GOOD.
AND SO WE JUST WANT TO CLARIFY IT AND MAKE IT KNOWN THAT THIS IS
FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION. SO THE CREDIT -- THE PAYMENT NETWORKS WILL BE
REQUIRED TO CREATE A CODE SPECIFICALLY FOR FIREARMS AND AMMUNITIONS.
MR. GOODELL: WELL, CERTAINLY THAT CLASSIFICATION IS
RELATIVELY EASY TO UNDERSTAND IF YOU GO INTO A STORE THAT ONLY SELLS GUNS
OR -- OR AMMUNITION. HOW WOULD THIS APPLY, FOR EXAMPLE, AT WALMART
WHERE A SMALL FRACTION OF THEIR TOTAL SALES ARE RELATED TO GUNS OR
AMMUNITION? WOULD THEY STILL BE USING THEIR REGULAR WALMART CODE?
MS. SOLAGES: YEAH. SO MCCS ARE CLASSIFIED
WHERE THE STORE IS -- THE TYPE OF STORE IS BEING PURCHASED AT. SO IT
DOESN'T DO IT AT LIKE A PRODUCT LEVEL, AND SO IF YOU WERE TO PURCHASE A
FIREARM OR AN AMMUNITION FROM A WALMART OR A STORE SUCH AS THAT, THIS
MCC CODE WOULDN'T -- WOULDN'T QUALIFY. WE'RE JUST FOCUSING -- WE'RE
JUST FOCUSING ON, YOU KNOW, MERCHANTS, FIREARM MERCHANTS.
MR. GOODELL: SO THIS LAW AS A PRACTICAL MATTER
WILL NOT LIKELY EFFECT ANY OF THE WALMARTS OR DICK'S SPORTING GOODS OR
OTHER BIG BOX STORES THAT SELL AMMUNITION AND GUNS BUT SELL A LOT OF
OTHER PRODUCTS THAT ARE UNRELATED?
MS. SOLAGES: YEAH. IT'S AS YOU SAID, YES.
MR. GOODELL: WERE THESE MCC CODES -- WHERE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARE THEY USED? OR HOW ARE THEY USED?
MS. SOLAGES: THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. SO
THEY ARE USED WITH THE -- THE PAYMENT NETWORK. SO, YOU KNOW, THE --
FOR EXAMPLE, MASTERCARD, VISA HAS THESE CODES AND THEY WITHIN THEIR
FINANCIAL INSTITUTION USE IT TO CLASSIFY PURCHASES. SO THIS IS VERY
IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FRAUD AND OTHER ELICIT
ACTIVITY THAT HAPPENS. FOR EXAMPLE, IF A MERCHANT, A PAYMENT NETWORK
SEES THAT THERE'S AN INDIVIDUAL WHO'S GOING TO A LOT OF HOTELS,
PURCHASING A LOT OF FAST FOOD, THE -- THE ALGORITHM CAN PREDICT THAT THAT
PERSON MIGHT BE DOING HUMAN TRAFFICKING. AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IS
THAT IF THERE'S LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S DO JUST AN EXAMPLE WITH FIREARMS
AND AMMUNITION. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THIS LAW WERE TO PASS AND A
PAYMENT NETWORK SEES THAT THERE IS A PERSON BUYING LARGE AMOUNT OF
AMMO AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LARGE AMOUNT OF AMMO, IT KICKS IN
WITH SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY REPORT. AND SO THIS IS A REPORT THAT THE
FINANCIAL INSTITUTION SENDS TO A FEDERAL AGENCY. IT'S COMPLETELY PRIVATE.
IT'S NOT DONE ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL. IT'S ONLY DONE WITH YOU SEE LIKE
MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF ILLEGAL OR SUPPOSED ILLEGAL FRAUD THAT MAY BE
HAPPENING, AND IT'S A PRIVATE INVESTIGATION IS DONE. AND SO IT'S NOT --
IT'S NOT TRACKED ON INDIVIDUAL PURCHASES. IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT COMPILING
PERSONAL DATA. IT'S JUST -- IT'S LOOKING AT UNUSUAL PURCHASING PATTERNS
THAT ARE HAPPENING THAT MIGHT, YOU KNOW, INDICATE ILLEGAL -- ILLEGAL
ACTIVITY.
MR. GOODELL: ARE THERE ANY CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER
WHICH THESE MCC CODES ARE AVAILABLE ON A DISAGGREGATED MANNER?
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THAT IS IT WOULD IDENTIFY THE INDIVIDUAL THAT WAS USING THE CREDIT CARD.
MS. SOLAGES: SO THIS INFORMATION WOULD GO TO
LIKE AUTHORIZED GOVERNMENTAL BODIES SUCH AS THE FINANCIAL CRIMES
ENFORCEMENT NETWORK AND IT'S STRICTLY USED FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND
REGULATORY PURPOSES. SO IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC. IT'S NOT REALLY
ACCESSIBLE FOR GENERAL SURVEILLANCE. IT'S REALLY JUST USED -- IF IT WERE TO
RISE TO THAT LEVEL FOR IT TO BE SUSPICIOUS, IT WOULD BE -- IT WOULD BE USED
FOR INFORMATION FOR AN INVESTIGATOR TO LOOK AT. SO IF THEY SEE THAT THIS
PERSON JUST BUYING A BULK AMOUNT OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION IN SUCH
A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, IT MAY RAISE A FLAG AND, YOU KNOW, THE ALGORITHM
AND PAYMENT NETWORK WILL KIND OF SEE WHAT'S GOING ON THERE.
MR. GOODELL: DOES THIS DATA COME TO ANY NEW
YORK STATE AGENCY?
MS. SOLAGES: SO THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION. SO
ACCORDING TO MY RESEARCH IT'S REALLY DONE -- THEY COORDINATE WITH ALL
LAW ENFORCEMENT. SO UNDER THE ASSUMPTION IF THEY FIND THAT THERE'S
SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY, THEY WILL PROBABLY COORDINATE WITH LOCAL LAW
ENFORCEMENT BUT TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S -- FROM WHAT I'M SEEING
IT'S DONE ON A -- ON A FEDERAL LEVEL, AND THIS ALSO HELPS FIREARM
MERCHANTS AS WELL BECAUSE --
MR. GOODELL: IF I CAN INTERRUPT YOU. YOU SAID
"THEY". WHO'S THEY?
MS. SOLAGES: SO I'M SAYING LIKE THE FEDERAL
AGENCIES. SO --
MR. GOODELL: YOU'RE SAYING THE FEDERAL AGENCIES
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WOULD CONTACT LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT?
MS. SOLAGES: IF -- IF IT COMES TO THE POINT WHERE IF
IT ARISES WHERE THERE'S GREAT SUSPICION, I'M SURE THEY WOULD CONTACT
LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT IF THEIR NEEDS TO BE FURTHER ACTION.
MR. GOODELL: NOW IN FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS, THE
SPECIFIC OR ACTIVITY REPORTS, SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY REPORTS ARE TYPICALLY
TRIGGERED BY TRANSACTIONS INVOLVING MORE THAN $10,000. IS THERE A
SIMILAR THRESHOLD FOR THESE MCCS?
MS. SOLAGES: CORRECT. IT APPLIES ALL THE SAME
RULES AND REGULATIONS. ALL WE'RE SAYING IN THIS BILL IS THAT YOU HAVE TO
MAKE AN MCC FIREARM AMMUNITION CODE AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT.
MR. GOODELL: SO IF THIS BILL WAS ENACTED, YOU
COULD GO TO A WALMART AND PURCHASE UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF
AMMUNITION AND IT WOULD NOT BE PICKED UP BY THE MCC CODE, CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: SO WE ARE TARGETING THE -- THE -- THE
FIREARM MERCHANTS FOR NOW AND I'M SURE THAT WE CAN FIND A REMEDY IN
THE FUTURE TO TACKLE THAT. BUT I'M SURE WALMART AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS
AS WELL HAVE A PROTOCOL, BUT RIGHT NOW WE ARE JUST FOCUSING ON THIS
METHODOLOGY.
MR. GOODELL: SO MY QUESTION GOES TO WHY ARE
WE ASKING FOR IT IF THIS INFORMATION IS NOT DISCLOSED TO THE STATE OR ANY
STATE AGENCY ABSENT A --
MS. SOLAGES: OH, I DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T SAY THAT.
MR. GOODELL: OH. SO IS THIS INFORMATION THEN
DISCLOSED TO THE STATE OR A STATE AGENCY?
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MS. SOLAGES: NO. THIS -- THIS IS STRICTLY DONE --
FROM MY RESEARCH IT'S SHARED ONLY WITH AUTHORIZED GOVERNMENTAL
BODIES SUCH AS THE FINANCIAL CRIMES ENFORCEMENT NETWORK, FINCEN.
AND IT'S STRICTLY FOR REGULATORY PURPOSES AND IT'S NOT FOR LIKE, YOU KNOW,
LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT FOR THE PUBLIC CONSUMPTION OR FOR SURVEILLANCE
PURPOSES.
MR. GOODELL: AND I -- FROM WHAT YOU INDICATED
BEFORE AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IT IS NOT SHARED DIRECTLY WITH ANY
NEW YORK STATE AGENCY; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: SO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE -- THE
PAYMENT NETWORK SO VISA, MASTERCARD DIRECTLY CONTACTING A NEW YORK
STATE AGENCY?
MR. GOODELL: CORRECT.
MS. SOLAGES: SO TYPICALLY FROM WHAT MY RESEARCH
SAYS IT GOES FIRST TO THESE FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT -- THAT, YOU KNOW,
FURTHER INVESTIGATE THE -- THE -- THE PURCHASES.
MR. GOODELL: BUT ONLY IF IT'S A SUSPICIOUS
ACTIVITY.
MS. SOLAGES: YES. ONLY IF IT TRIGGERS --
MR. GOODELL: SO THEN I COME BACK TO MY BASIC
QUESTION. IF THIS INFORMATION IS ONLY REPORTED TO THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IF IT'S A SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY AND IT'S NOT REPORTED BY THE
CREDIT CARD COMPANIES OR FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS TO ANY STATE AGENCY,
WHY ARE WE REQUIRING STATE RETAIL OUTLETS, CERTAIN ONES TO USE CERTAIN
CODES?
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MS. SOLAGES: SO IF IT RISES TO THE POINT TO WHERE
THERE'S A SUSPICION AND A CONCERN, THEN IT WILL PROBABLY TRIGGER OTHER
LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES INCLUDING LOCAL LAW -- COORDINATION WITH
LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.
MR. GOODELL: BUT AS YOU POINTED OUT, THIS IS
EASILY CIRCUMVENTED BY JUST SIMPLY BUYING ALL YOUR GUNS OR
AMMUNITION IN A BOX STORE, RIGHT?
MS. SOLAGES: SO I BELIEVE THAT THEY ALSO HAVE
THEIR OWN PROTOCOLS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ALWAYS A CONTINUING
CONVERSATION. YOU KNOW, I'M TACKLING IT AT -- AT THIS POINT AND MAYBE
IF WE CAN WITH FURTHER LEGISLATION LOOK AT MAKING SURE WE TACKLE IT
THROUGH OTHER MERCHANTS, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
WE START WITH MCC CODES WITH FIREARM MERCHANTS.
MR. GOODELL: NOW WHAT PERCENT OF AMMUNITION
OR GUNS ARE PURCHASED THROUGH BIG BOX STORES LIKE DICK'S SPORTING
GOODS OR CARBELLA'S [SIC] OR -- OR WALMART COMPARED TO STORES THAT ARE
JUST DEALERS IN AMMUNITION OR FIREARMS?
MS. SOLAGES: I DON'T HAVE THAT EXACT INFORMATION
BUT I KNOW THAT MANY OF THOSE STORES ARE DISINVESTING INTO FIREARMS AND
AMMUNITION. AND SO I'M SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE PURCHASING THEIR GUNS
MORE THROUGH FIREARM MERCHANTS THAN THROUGH A WALMART. BUT I KNOW
THAT, YOU KNOW, THE BIG BOX STORES ALSO HAVE LIMITS ON HOW MUCH
FIREARMS AND AMMUNITIONS THAT YOU CAN BUY. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T
REALLY BY A BULK OF THAT.
MR. GOODELL: SO DO MOST OF THE SMALL STORES,
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BECAUSE OF INVENTORY LIMITATIONS. THIS DOESN'T -- THIS DOESN'T APPLY AT
ALL -- THIS LAW WOULD NOT APPLY AT ALL ON PURCHASES MADE IN
PENNSYLVANIA OR NEW JERSEY, CONNECTICUT, VERMONT, NEW HAMPSHIRE.
MS. SOLAGES: WE'RE A NEW YORK LEGISLATURE SO
THE LAWS THAT WE PASS IMPACT THE EMPIRE STATE.
MR. GOODELL: SO WHY ARE WE ASKED TO ADOPT A
LAW THAT ONLY TARGETS ONE SET OF STORES?
MS. SOLAGES: SO I DON'T FIND THIS AS A MEANS OF
TARGETING, YOU KNOW, THE STORES. IT'S ACTUALLY HELPING, YOU KNOW,
IDENTIFY IF THERE'S ANY FRAUD OR ILLICIT ACTIVITY. IF PEOPLE ARE BUYING, YOU
KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE -- THE MASS SHOOTINGS BETWEEN 2007-2018, AT
LEAST EIGHT OF THOSE MAJOR MASS SHOOTINGS INCLUDED -- AT LEAST -- SORRY,
EXCUSE ME. CREDIT CARDS WERE USED TO FINANCE AT LEAST EIGHT OF THE
MAJOR MASS SHOOTINGS INCLUDING THE TWO DEADLIEST ONES IN THE UNITED
STATES WHICH IS PULSE NIGHTCLUB AND ALSO THE LAS VEGAS -- THE HARVEST
FESTIVAL AT LAS VEGAS. RIGHT BEFORE THEY CREATED THOSE MASS -- OR DID
THOSE MASS SHOOTINGS, THEY ACTUALLY PURCHASED A HUGE AMOUNT OF
AMMUNITION AND FIREARMS WITH CREDIT CARDS. AND SO IF WE HAD
SOMETHING LIKE THIS -- IF THIS WERE TO HAPPEN IN NEW YORK AND WE HAD
THIS LAW IMPLEMENTED, WE WOULD BE -- MAY BE ABLE TO FLAG THIS HUGE
AMOUNT OF PURCHASE IN SUCH A LIMITED TIME.
MR. GOODELL: WERE ANY OF THOSE PURCHASES THAT
YOU MENTIONED MADE AT STORES THAT SOLD EXCLUSIVELY OR PRIMARILY
AMMUNITION OR FIREARMS?
MS. SOLAGES: YES. THAT'S WHY I WAS ABLE TO -- TO
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COME UP WITH THAT --
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. BUT AS YOU NOTED, THAT
INFORMATION WOULD NOT BE AUTOMATICALLY REPORTED IN ANY WAY TO THE
STATE POLICE OR LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT IN NEW YORK.
MS. SOLAGES: BECAUSE WE WANT TO PROTECT
PEOPLES' ABILITY TO PURCHASE, YOU KNOW, FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION.
YOU KNOW, IF A PERSON WANTS TO BUY IT THAT'S FINE, BUT WE WANT TO
ENSURE THAT THERE'S PROTOCOLS IN PLACE THAT IN CASE SOMEONE IS DOING
ILLICIT ACTIVITY OR FRAUD -- BECAUSE REMEMBER, IT'S ALSO NOT ABOUT THE
INDIVIDUAL PERSON. IF SOMEONE STEALS SOMEONE'S CREDIT CARD AND STARTS
PURCHASING, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE -- THESE PRODUCTS, WE WANT TO BE ABLE
TO FLAG THAT AND PREVENT THOSE PURCHASES FROM HAPPENING OR AT LEAST
FLAG IT TO KNOW THAT THESE PURCHASES ARE HAPPENING. SO THIS IS ABOUT --
MR. GOODELL: AND USING THAT AS A SCENARIO, YOU
ENVISION THEN THAT THIS INFORMATION CAN BE USED TO IDENTIFY SPECIFIC
INDIVIDUALS.
MS. SOLAGES: NO, WELL -- BUT REMEMBER THERE'S AN
ALGORITHM THAT CAN IDENTIFY AND LOOK AT PURCHASES. SO THE ALGORITHM
CAN SEE WHETHER THIS IS USUAL PURCHASING THAT IS DONE BY AN INDIVIDUAL
OR IF THIS IS, YOU KNOW, ABNORMAL PURCHASE BEING DONE BY -- BY A
PERSON. SO, YOU KNOW, IF -- IF THE ALGORITHM IDENTIFIES IT, THEN IT GOES TO
THE (INAUDIBLE), THE REPORT, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S INVESTIGATED AND
THEN FROM THERE IF IT NEEDS TO BE, YOU KNOW, FURTHER INVESTIGATED, YOU
KNOW, IT HAPPENS.
MR. GOODELL: NOW AS YOU KNOW THE FEDERAL FIRE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
-- FIREARM OWNERS PROTECTION ACT OF 1986 BARS THE CREATION OF ANY GUN
REGISTRY. BUT WOULDN'T THIS BE A BACKDOOR WAY OF ACQUIRING THAT
REGISTRY BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE A LIST OF NAME, ADDRESS, CREDIT CARD
NUMBER, DATE OF PURCHASE, AMOUNT OF PURCHASE BY EVERYONE WHO
PURCHASED ANY AMMUNITION IN A NEW YORK STATE STORE THAT DEALS IN
AMMUNITION AND FIREARMS. ISN'T THAT EXACTLY WHAT DATABASE WOULD BE
CREATED BY THIS LAW?
MS. SOLAGES: AS I SAID, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE
INDIVIDUAL PURCHASE LEVEL --
MR. GOODELL: I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I'M JUST
SAYING BUT ISN'T THAT THE DATABASE THAT WOULD BE CREATED?
MS. SOLAGES: NO, IT WOULD NOT BECAUSE THIS -- THIS
INFORMATION IS NOT AGGREGATED FOR THE PURPOSES OF -- OF DETERMINING,
YOU KNOW, HOW -- HOW, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE -- ARE -- IT'S -- IT'S NOT
TRACKING INDIVIDUAL PURCHASES OR COMPILING LIKE THESE PURCHASES INTO
DATA. IT'S JUST LOOKING AT THE PURCHASING PATTERNS OF -- OF A PERSON. SO
IT'S NOT LIKE YOU KNOW YOU'RE JUST BUILDING UP A DATABASE. YOU KNOW
WE MAKE PURCHASES ALL THE TIME AND SO, YOU KNOW, THIS WOULD JUST
ENSURE THAT IF THERE'S SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY, THAT WE ARE ABLE TO IDENTIFY IT,
INVESTIGATE IT, AND PEOPLES' INFORMATION ARE HELD PRIVATE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. MANKTELOW.
MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: YES, SHE WILL YIELD.
MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, SPONSOR. JUST A
COUPLE QUESTIONS. I WAS LISTENING TO THE -- TO THE DEBATE JUST NOW AND
MAYBE YOU CAN HELP CLARIFY A FEW THINGS FOR ME. SO LET'S SAY YOU'RE THE
STORE OWNER. I COME TO YOUR STORE WITH MY CREDIT CARD --
MS. SOLAGES: WHICH -- WHAT IS THE STORE?
MR. MANKTELOW: WHAT'S THAT?
MS. SOLAGES: WHAT TYPE OF STORE IS THIS? WHAT
TYPE OF STORE DO YOU OWN?
MR. MANKTELOW: A DEALER -- AN ARMS OR A GUN
DEALER. I COME TO YOUR STORE, OKAY. SO I COME THERE, I BUY A THOUSAND
ROUNDS OF AMMO. I LIKE SHOOTING, I LIKE TARGET SHOOTING, I COME TO BUY
A THOUSAND ROUNDS. I SWIPE MY CARD TO PAY FOR THAT. SO TELL ME WHAT
HAPPENS TO THAT INFORMATION THEN.
MS. SOLAGES: IT GOES ON YOUR CREDIT CARD
STATEMENT AND....
MR. MANKTELOW: THAT'S IT?
MS. SOLAGES: YEAH.
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. SO I HAD MY FAMILY
OVER THIS WEEK, NEXT WEEK, AND WE WANT TO GO SHOOT SOME MORE. I
COME IN AGAIN AND BUY ANOTHER THOUSAND ROUNDS OF 7.62 AMMO. I --
MS. SOLAGES: HOW MUCH -- HOW MUCH ARE YOU
BUYING?
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MR. MANKTELOW: HOW MUCH WHAT?
MS. SOLAGES: HOW MUCH AMMO OR FIREARMS ARE
YOU BUYING?
MR. MANKTELOW: LIKE I SAID, I'M GOING TO BUY
ANOTHER THOUSAND ROUNDS.
MS. SOLAGES: WHAT IS -- WHAT IS THE MARKET?
LIKE, HOW MUCH ARE YOU BUYING THOSE THOUSAND ROUNDS AT, BECAUSE IT
DEPENDS ON HOW, YOU KNOW -- IT DEPENDS ON, YOU KNOW, LIKE ALL
AMMUNITION COST DIFFERENT PRICE SO YOU GOTTA JUST TELL ME A PRICE. LOOK
AT YOUR RECEIPT.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO IT'S AROUND $500 FOR A
THOUSAND ROUNDS, OKAY?
MS. SOLAGES: OKAY.
MR. MANKTELOW: IF I GO ACROSS THE PENNSYLVANIA
LINE IT'S PROBABLY $300.
MS. SOLAGES: OKAY.
MR. MANKTELOW: ALL RIGHT. SO I COME IN NEXT
WEEK AND I BUY ANOTHER THOUSAND ROUNDS FOR $500.
MS. SOLAGES: OKAY.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO THERE'S $1,000 I SPENT IN
TWO WEEKS. WHAT HAPPENS?
MS. SOLAGES: YOUR WIFE MIGHT BE UPSET, BUT --
MR. MANKTELOW: I'M NOT GOING TO TELL HER.
MS. SOLAGES: I THINK YOU'RE FINE. YOU'RE WELL
UNDER THE THRESHOLD. WHAT REALLY ARISES TO SUSPICION IS ABOUT $10,000
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WORTH OF PURCHASING? YEAH. WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL -- IT'S A REALLY HIGH
THRESHOLD, SO IF THE PERSON IS BUYING, YOU KNOW, THOUSANDS UPON
THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF -- OF AMMUNITION, IT -- IT -- IT TRIGGERS IT.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT OTHER SECTORS OF -- OF MCC CODES, WHAT
HAPPENS TO THAT, YOU KNOW, THE ALGORITHM HELPS IDENTIFY AND PREVENT
ACTIVITY. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, AS I MENTIONED, IF THERE'S LIKE A BUNCH OF --
SOMEONE USING HOTELS, THEY'RE GOING TO HOTELS EVERY DAY, EVERY DAY,
EVERY DAY TO EVERY DAY OR BUYING ITEMS OR PRODUCTS THAT MIGHT YIELD TO
THEM ASSUMING THAT IT'S MONEY -- MONEY LAUNDERING, YOU KNOW, THE
ALGORITHM THAT THEY HAVE CAN IDENTIFY THESE UNUSUAL PRACTICES AND
PURPOSES AND THEN FROM THERE IT ARISES TO SUSPICION, BUT IF YOU'RE
BUYING $500 WORTH OF AMMO AND THAT'S A REGULAR PURCHASE, LET'S SAY
THAT'S WHAT YOU REGULARLY DO, THAT'S NOT GOING TO TRIGGER ANY, YOU KNOW,
YOU KNOW, SUSPICION, IT'S NOT GOING TO TRIGGER ANYTHING. REMEMBER
THIS IS NOT DONE ON A PRODUCT LEVEL. THIS IS ABOUT THE, YOU KNOW,
MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PURCHASING THAT YOU'RE DOING.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYING IS A
MASSIVE AMOUNT IS $10,000 OR MORE?
MS. SOLAGES: SO ON AVERAGE, YEAH. IT DEPENDS ON,
YOU KNOW, MASTERCARD, VISA, YOU KNOW, THE PAYMENT NETWORKS HAVE
THEIR DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, THRESHOLD, BUT IT'S A -- IT'S A HIGH THRESHOLD.
MR. MANKTELOW: AND IS THAT 10,000 PER CREDIT
CARD OR IS THAT 10,000 PER --
MS. SOLAGES: SO MCC CODES ARE STRICTLY LIKE
CREDIT CARDS, THEY'RE -- THEY'RE PAYMENT NETWORKS. SO IT'S NOT -- LIKE A
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DEBIT CARD DOESN'T HAVE REALLY MCC CODES. IT'S REALLY LIKE, YOU KNOW,
LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOUR CITIBANK CARD, YOU KNOW.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO IF I USE A -- IF I USE A VISA
CARD, A MASTERCARD, ARE THEY GOING TO LINK TOGETHER?
MS. SOLAGES: THEIR TWO COMPETITIVE COMPANIES
SO I DOUBT THAT THEY WOULD LINK TOGETHER.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO IF I BUY THIS WEEK, I'LL BUY
MY -- MY 10,000 ROUNDS WITH MY MASTERCARD, TWO WEEKS DOWN THE
ROAD I'M GOING TO BUY THE NEXT 10,000 ROUNDS WITH MY VISA CARD.
THAT'S GOING TO KIND OF SKEWER OF WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO DO, CORRECT?
MS. SOLAGES: YOU KNOW, SO YOU'RE BUYING
$10,000 WORTH OF AMMO ON YOUR VISA AND THEN YOU MOVE OVER TO YOUR
MASTERCARD AND BUY $10,000 WORTH OF...
MR. MANKTELOW: YEAH. I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S
THE NUMBER YOU GAVE ME.
MS. SOLAGES: ON YOUR MASTERCARD? SO THEN WHAT
WOULD HAPPEN IS THAT IF YOU REACH THE THRESHOLD ON THOSE TWO CREDIT
CARDS THAN A SARS REPORT WOULD BE TRIGGERED. WELL, THE FIRST, IT
DEPENDS ON THE CREDIT CARD ALGORITHM AND THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY,
THEIR THRESHOLD. SO AFTER THAT IT WOULD TRIGGER THE SARS REPORT AND THEY
WOULD DO -- INTERNALLY THEY WOULD DO AN INVESTIGATION AND LOOK AT YOUR
-- YOUR PAYMENT HISTORY, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU'RE DOING. AND THEN FROM
THERE THEY GO ON TO THAT -- THAT OTHER ENTITY, LIKE THE OTHER LAW
ENFORCEMENT ENTITIES AND THEY HAVE CONVERSATIONS THERE. IF THEY -- THEY
SEE SOMETHING UNUSUAL OR THEY SEE ILLICIT ACTIVITY THAT'S -- THAT WOULD
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CAUSE SOMEONE TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE A SECOND LOOK, THEN IT WOULD -- THEN
IT WOULD TRIGGER MORE LIKE LAW ENFORCEMENT AND ALL THAT.
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY.
MS. SOLAGES: AM I BEING CLEAR? DO YOU
UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS?
MR. MANKTELOW: NO, I UNDERSTAND. I'M JUST
TRYING TO PLAY THIS OUT IN MY MIND.
MS. SOLAGES: OH NO. NO PROBLEM.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO I GUESS MY NEXT QUESTION
WOULD BE THEN, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A WHILE TO TRIGGER ALL THAT STUFF BEFORE
IT'S EVEN LOOKED AT. RIGHT NOW WHEN I --
MS. SOLAGES: YEAH. I -- I -- I THINK IT WOULD --,
YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID THERE'S PROTOCOLS IN PLACE. IT'S NOT LIKE A GOTCHA
THING. THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS -- I THINK THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES,
YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BILLION DOLLAR ENTITIES. MASTERCARD,
VISA, THEY HAVE PROTOCOLS AND THEY -- THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE
SOPHISTICATED ALGORITHMS THAT CAN IDENTIFY WHETHER IT'S SUSPICIOUS. SO
FOR -- FOR THE THRESHOLD TO BE MET WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TRIGGERING
LAW ENFORCEMENT IS -- IS VERY HIGH. BUT LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW,
THESE MASS SHOOTINGS WHERE THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING IN AND BUYING,
YOU KNOW, A BUNCH OF AMMO, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT -- THAT COULD'VE
TRIGGERED THAT.
MR. MANKTELOW: IN THOSE MASS SHOOTINGS YOU
SAID A BUNCH OF AMMO. BUT WHAT IS A BUNCH OF AMMO?
MS. SOLAGES: SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE, YOU KNOW,
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EXCUSE ME. SO AT THE ROUTE 91 HARVEST FESTIVAL IN LAS VEGAS, 60
PEOPLE WERE LEFT DEAD, HUNDREDS INJURED, SO HUNDREDS -- HUNDREDS OF
PEOPLE WERE INJURED. SO THAT'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF AMMO AND I
REMEMBER FROM THE ARTICLE, THE GENTLEMAN HAD A -- I SHOULDN'T CALL HIM
A GENTLEMAN, THE MONSTER HAD, YOU KNOW, HUGE AMOUNTS OF GUNS AND
WEAPONS ALL OVER THE HOTEL ROOM. IT WAS PROBABLY -- I WOULD -- I
COULDN'T EVEN -- I CAN'T ENUMERATE HOW MANY WERE AROUND, BUT EVEN
AFTER HE CONFLICTED ALL THAT DAMAGE TO PEOPLE ON THE GROUND, HE HAD
MORE AMMO AND WEAPONS IN THE ROOM. SO I'M TALKING ABOUT THIS IS,
YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE ARE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PURCHASING SO MANY
GUNS.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT
TOOK THAT MONSTER, AS YOU PUT IT, TO ACQUIRE ALL THAT AMMO?
MS. SOLAGES: THAT I DON'T KNOW. I'M -- I'M -- I'M
TRYING TO RECALL WHAT I READ. BUT AGAIN, I MEAN I THINK FROM -- FROM
WHAT I REMEMBER IT WAS PURCHASED IN A -- IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. I
WANT TO SAY --
MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. SO I GUESS MY NEXT
QUESTION IS, IN NEW YORK STATE NOW WHEN I GO TO BUY AMMO, I HAVE TO
BE CLEAR TO BUY THE AMMO, THEY ALREADY KNOW HOW MUCH AMMO I BUY
IN NEW YORK STATE. THIS IS ONLY FOR NEW YORK STATE. SO TELL ME WHY
DO I NEED TO DO THIS WHEN THE STATE'S ALREADY DOING THIS?
MS. SOLAGES: WELL, THE INDIVIDUAL NEW YORKER IS
NOT DOING ANYTHING. THIS IS THE CREDIT CARD, THE PAYMENT --
MR. MANKTELOW: NO, NO, NO. BUT WE'RE TRYING
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TO GET THIS INFORMATION TO GET TO POLICE OFFICIALS OR TO GET TO SOMEONE IF
THEY SEE MR. BRIAN BUYING THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS, I'M
GOING TO PROBABLY BE RED FLAGGED AND SAY WE BETTER GO TAKE A LOOK AT
BRIAN. WELL, RIGHT NOW WHEN I BUY AMMO AT AN AMMO STORE, THEY
ALREADY KNOW AND ALREADY TRACK THE AMMO THAT I'VE ALREADY BOUGHT. SO
WHY ARE WE DUPLICATING THIS?
MS. SOLAGES: SO THIS -- THIS CREATION OF THE MCC
CODE WOULD BE THE FIRST STEP IN FACILITATING THE COLLECTION OF -- TO HELP
REALLY LAW ENFORCEMENT COUNTER ANY SORT OF, YOU KNOW, TERRORISM
EFFORTS. AND IT ALSO ENSURES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY
INCLUDING THE STRAW PURCHASES, UNLAWFUL BULK PURCHASES THAT COULD
HAPPEN, OR -- OR ANY SORT OF GUN TRAFFICKING SCHEME. SO LIKE YOU SAID
BEFORE, IF YOU ARE -- IF YOU ARE A PERSON WHO'S DOING ILLICIT ACTIVITY, YOU
KNOW, I STEAL A WALLET AND THERE'S MULTIPLE CREDIT CARDS IN THE WALLET
AND I START JUST SWIPING AND BUYING WEAPONS, NOW LAW ENFORCEMENT
UPON INVESTIGATION CAN SEE THAT, LOOK, WE WERE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT.
AND THIS IS THROUGH -- OBVIOUSLY THIS INFORMATION'S NOT READILY
AVAILABLE. THEY HAVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, A WARRANT HAS TO BE GIVEN, YOU
KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT HAS BE, YOU KNOW, SUBPOENAED, THIS OR THAT SO
THERE'S PROTOCOL TO PROTECT PEOPLES' DATA, BUT AT LEAST YOU CAN BE ABLE TO
IDENTIFY OKAY, THIS MERCHANT CODE WAS ABLE TO -- LIKE THIS MERCHANT
SOLD THIS AND WE CAN NOW, YOU KNOW, COORDINATE WITH THEM TO MAKE
SURE THAT THE PEOPLE ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE STRAW -- THE -- THE
UNLAWFUL BULK BUYING OF FIREARMS.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO IN TODAY'S WORLD IF YOU
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
FOUND MY WALLET WITH MY CREDIT CARD AND YOU TOOK MY CREDIT CARD TO
GO BUY A GUN IN NEW YORK STATE OR AMMO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE MY -- YOU
HAVE TO HAVE A -- A PISTOL PERMIT OR A LONG RIFLE PERMIT. YOU HAVE TO
HAVE A PICTURE ID. YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT -- SO THAT'S
THE THING. WE'VE ALREADY PUT THESE STOP GAPS IN PLACE TO MAKE THIS
HAPPEN. WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS THESE STOP GAPS TO A LAW-ABIDING
CITIZEN LIKE MYSELF, THEY WORK. MY CONCERN IS TO THE INDIVIDUALS WHO
DON'T DO THE RIGHT THING, AND LET ME GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES. IF I
WAS A BAD PERSON AND I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO TRACK MY AMMO, I'M
PROBABLY EITHER TO GO OUT-OF-STATE AND BUY IT. SECONDLY, IF I KNOW
YOU'RE TRACKING MY CREDIT CARDS, I'M PROBABLY GOING TO GO BUY IT WITH
CASH OR I'M GOING TO HAVE A FRIEND GO BUY IT FOR ME. SO I JUST AGAIN, I --
I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. I THINK WE HAVE THOSE STOP GAPS
IN PLACE. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO NOTIFY THE INDIVIDUALS, YOU WANT
TO NOTIFY THE AGENCIES IF BRIAN'S BUYING WAY TOO MUCH AMMO. MY
CONCERN THERE, AGAIN, AS WELL IS IF THAT'S THE CASE, THAT WON'T PREVENT IT.
MS. SOLAGES: AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE, YOU
KNOW, FRAUD THAT HAPPENS WITH CREDIT CARDS, THERE ARE ILLICIT ACTIVITIES
THAT HAPPENS WITH CREDIT CARDS, BUT TO SAY THAT -- THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS
-- AND I UNDERSTAND BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE
COORDINATING AND, YOU KNOW, MAKING AND ENSURING THAT WE ARE
STOPPING ANY ILLICIT ACTIVITIES. SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND
THIS WOULD JUST STREAMLINE A PROCESS SO THAT IF THERE ARE ANY SORT OF
SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY OR FRAUD THAT'S BEING -- THAT'S HAPPENING THAT WE CAN
TACKLE IT AT ITS ROOT AND WE CAN COORDINATE WITH PAYMENT NETWORKS IN
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ORDER TO STOP, YOU KNOW, GUNS FROM COMING INTO OUR COMMUNITIES.
YOU KNOW, TODAY IS GUN VIOLENCE AWARENESS DAY AND, YOU KNOW, OUR
COMMUNITIES ARE BEING RAVISHED BY GUN VIOLENCE. AND IT'S IMPORTANT
THAT WE, YOU KNOW, PREVENT ILLEGAL GUNS FROM PROLIFERATING. BUT ALSO
COORDINATING AND USING ALL OUR TOOLS IN OUR TOOLKITS TO STOP, YOU KNOW,
GUN VIOLENCE IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
MR. MANKTELOW: ALL RIGHT. WELL, I THANK YOU
FOR TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.
AND MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON THE BILL.
MR. MANKTELOW: SO DISCUSSING THIS WITH THE
SPONSOR, AGAIN AS I SAID A LITTLE WHILE AGO, A LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN IS
GOING TO DO THESE THINGS THE RIGHT WAY. IF I'M A BAD PERSON AND I
WANTED TO ACCOMPLISH A MISSION OF, LIKE SHE SAID, TAKE SOME PEOPLE OUT
AT THE -- I FORGOT WHERE SHE SAID THE EVENT WAS OUT OF, OUT WEST OR
WHEREVER. IF I'M GOING TO DO THAT I'M JUST GOING TO GO OUT-OF-STATE AND
GET STUFF, OR I'M GOING TO BUY IT WITH CASH. AND OR I'M GOING TO BUY IT
ON THE STREETS. AGAIN, THIS SLOWS THE PROCESS DOWN TO A LAW-ABIDING
CITIZEN. AND WHY SHOULD I BE TRACKED OF WHAT I BUY, WHERE I BUY IT,
HOW MUCH I PAID FOR IT WHEN I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG? WHY SHOULD
THAT ABILITY BE GIVEN? WHY SHOULD MY RECORDS, WHY SHOULD WHAT I BUY
BE GIVEN TO ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO CHALLENGE ME? MAYBE I HAVE A BIG
FAMILY. MAYBE I HAVE TEN CHILDREN, WE LIKE TO TARGET PRACTICE. MAYBE
WE LIKE TO DO LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS. WE PRACTICE WITH DIFFERENT GUNS
IN OUR HOME. AGAIN, WE'RE NOT REALLY TARGETING THE ISSUE HERE. THE
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ISSUE AGAIN ISN'T THE VISA CARD, THE ISSUE HERE ISN'T THE BULLET, THE ISSUE
ISN'T THE GUN, IT ISN'T HOW MANY GUNS WE HAVE, IT GOES BACK TO THE
INDIVIDUAL AND I'VE SAID THIS ON THIS FLOOR BEFORE. I HAVE LOTS OF GUNS IN
MY HOUSE. THEY'RE LOCKED UP NOW NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'VE PASSED
HERE, BUT NOT ONE OF MY GUNS HAS EVER SHOT ANYONE. NOT ANY PIECE OF
ANY ROUND OF MY AMMO HAS EVER BEEN DISCHARGED TO -- AT SOMEONE.
AND I AM A LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN AND I HATE AGAIN TO HAVE MY RIGHTS
DWINDLED DOWN BECAUSE WE THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. IT'S NOT.
THE BIBLE EVEN TALKS ABOUT THIS. MAKING SURE SPARE THE ROD, SPOIL THE
CHILD. WHEN SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING WRONG THEY NEED TO BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE. NOT ME, NOT THE GUN, NOT THE STOREOWNER. I MET WITH THE
STOREOWNER A FEW WEEKS AGO, A GUN STORE AND AMMO STORE. HE GRABS
MY ARM AND HE SAYS BRIAN, I'M GOING TO LOSE MY BUSINESS THAT I'VE
WORKED FOR FOR 40 YEARS BECAUSE OF ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS. I
DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. HE'S DONE NOTHING WRONG. THE GUNS AND
THE AMMO IN THE STORE HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. THIS ISN'T THE WAY TO
MAKE THIS HAPPEN. AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO PUNISH THE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS
AND THE ONES THAT WANT TO SKIRT AROUND IT ARE GOING TO FIND WAYS TO DO
THAT AND I JUST GAVE A FEW PRIME EXAMPLES ON HOW THEY CAN DO THAT.
SO AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE SPONSOR IS TRYING TO
DO. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE WAY WE'RE DOING IT. SO THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK ON THE BILL AND MS. SOLAGES, THANK
YOU FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS, I APPRECIATE IT AND I'D BE MORE THAN
WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND TALK TO YOU ABOUT SOME OF THIS AT ANY TIME, OF
COURSE. THANK YOU.
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ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. ANGELINO.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
YOU ASK THE SPONSOR YIELD TO YIELD, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, SIR.
I WAS LISTENING AS MY COLLEAGUE AND YOU WERE TALKING,
AND YOU WERE MENTIONING THINGS ABOUT TRIGGERING, OR I THINK HE SAID
FLAGGED, YOU SAID TRIGGERED - THE -- NO PUN INTENDED - BUT YOU SAID THE
WORD IF SOMEBODY BOUGHT BULK AMMO. IS BUYING AMMO IN BULK
ILLEGAL?
MS. SOLAGES: SO I -- I BELIEVE IN NEW YORK STATE
WE DO HAVE LIMITS.
MR. ANGELINO: WHAT IS THE LIMIT?
MS. SOLAGES: I -- I DON'T HAVE THE DIRECT NUMBER
OF -- OF THE LIMITS BUT, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THERE WAS A
PRIME EXAMPLE OF THE GENTLEMAN BEFORE SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, I COULD
TAKE TWO DIFFERENT CREDIT CARDS AND GO TO TWO DIFFERENT STORES. AND SO
SOMEONE COULD TAKE THAT SAME CREDIT CARD AND GO TO MULTIPLE DEALERS
AND -- AND MERCHANTS AND PURCHASE FIREARMS.
MR. ANGELINO: IS THAT AGAINST THE LAW?
MS. SOLAGES: I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THE
QUESTION?
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. ANGELINO: IS THAT AGAINST THE LAW?
MS. SOLAGES: YES. BUT THINGS, YOU KNOW --
MR. ANGELINO: IT IS AGAINST THE LAW?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
MR. ANGELINO: TO GO TO MULTIPLE DEALERS AND BUY
MULTIPLE FIREARMS?
MS. SOLAGES: YES. BUT, YOU KNOW, THINGS DO
HAPPEN SO, YOU KNOW, IT -- IT -- IT HAPPENS AND IT'S A REALM OF
POSSIBILITY. ERROR HAPPENS, HUMAN ERROR HAPPENS, YOU KNOW PEOPLE
SOMETIMES DON'T LOOK, YOU KNOW. AGAIN, I COULD -- I COULD -- I COULD
USE FAKE IDS, YOU KNOW, AND --
MR. ANGELINO: I THINK YOU MISUNDERSTOOD. IS IT
AGAINST THE LAW TO BUY MULTIPLE FIREARMS ON MULTIPLE DAYS FROM
MULTIPLE DEALERS?
MS. SOLAGES: IN NEW YORK, YES, THERE'S A LIMIT ON
THE AMOUNT OF AMMUNITION.
MR. ANGELINO: WHAT LAW IS THAT?
MS. SOLAGES: ACTUALLY, I'M -- I'M NOT GOING TO
MISSPEAK. I'M NOT SURE.
MR. ANGELINO: AND WHEN I ASKED -- MY FIRST WAS
BULK AMMO, I THINK YOU MIGHT BE CONFUSING NEW YORK CITY HAS CERTAIN
RULES ON STORING BULK AMMO, BUT IS THERE ANY LAW IN NEW YORK STATE
THAT SAYS I CAN'T BUY AMMO IN BULK?
MS. SOLAGES: I SAID BULK -- BULK PURCHASES.
MR. ANGELINO: YEAH. IS THAT AGAINST THE LAW?
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MS. SOLAGES: SO IT'S NOT JUST AMMO. I BELIEVE YOU
CAN GO TO -- TO -- SO WITH THE MCC CODE WE'RE LOOKING AT --
MR. ANGELINO: RIGHT.
MS. SOLAGES: -- SO IT TRIGGERS, WHEN YOU BUY
MULTIPLE, LIKE, BULK AMMO LIKE A MULTIPLE ROUND OR - EXCUSE ME -
AMOUNTS OF AMMO --
MR. ANGELINO: RIGHT.
MS. SOLAGES: -- WE'RE SAYING THAT -- SO I WAS
GIVING THE EXAMPLE WHAT TRIGGERS IT, WHAT -- WHAT, YOU KNOW, FLAGS THE
-- THE -- THE SR -- THE SAR FROM HAPPENING. SO I GUESS THAT IS THE
EXAMPLE I'M SAYING.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. SO YOU CAN GO OUT AND BUY
BULK AMMO BUT IT MIGHT TRIGGER THE SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY REPORT.
MS. SOLAGES: WELL, THE QUESTION AT HAND FROM THE
PRIOR SPEAKER WAS WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD, SO I WAS JUST ANSWERING THE
RESPONSE OF THE QUESTION.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. SO IF I BUY AMMO LEGALLY
THAT TRIGGERS A SAR ON THE MCC CODE, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? DO I
EXPECT AN OFFICER TO KNOCK ON MY DOOR?
MS. SOLAGES: NO. SO THE -- THE VISA, MASTERCARD,
THE PAYMENT NETWORKS WOULD -- THEY HAVE -- ONE'S THE ALGORITHM THAT
IDENTIFIES YOU, THEY HAVE CERTAIN PROTOCOLS IN-HOUSE THAT WOULD LOOK AT
THE PATTERNS. AND THEY WOULD DO AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION AS TO, YOU
KNOW, THE PURCHASES, LOOK AT YOUR -- YOUR PAYMENT HISTORY, IF YOU'RE --
IF YOU BOUGHT THEM BEFORE. AND THEN IF IT RISES TO A LEVEL OF HEIGHTENED
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SUSPICION, THEN IT TRIGGERS A -- A FEDERAL AGENCY THAT WOULD FURTHER
INVESTIGATE. SO THERE'S -- THERE'S PROTOCOLS IN PLACE SO IT'S NOT LIKE YOU
BUY IT AND THEN THE NEXT DAY YOU GET A KNOCK ON THE DOOR AND THERE'S --
THERE'S LAW ENFORCEMENT. YOU KNOW, THERE'S -- THERE'S AN INTERNAL
INVESTIGATION BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE WANT TO PROTECT PEOPLES' PRIVACIES AND
WE ALSO WANT TO HAVE -- LET PEOPLE HAVE THEIR FREEDOM OF HAVING
WEAPONS, BUT WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ELIMINATING, YOU
KNOW, SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITIES AND FRAUD. AND SO THERE'S PROTOCOLS IN
PLACE THAT, YOU KNOW, ENSURE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING THE PEOPLES' RIGHTS
WHILE THEY ALSO, YOU KNOW, STOP -- WE'RE STOPPING CRIME AND ENSURING
PUBLIC SAFETY.
MR. ANGELINO: SO IF I BUY AN ITEM IN NEW YORK
STATE THAT IS LEGAL BUT DOES GET FLAGGED AND AN OFFICER DOES SHOW UP AT
MY DOOR, WHAT PREVENTS ME FROM TELLING HIM IT'S NONE OF HIS BUSINESS
OR EXERCISING --
MS. SOLAGES: I DON'T -- YEAH, THAT IS NOT THE
ENFORCEMENT, YOU KNOW, MECHANISM. YOU KNOW, THERE'S INVESTIGATION
AGENCIES THAT INVESTIGATE THIS SO IT'S NOT LIKE, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE I
LIVE IN NASSAU COUNTY, IT'S NOT LIKE IF I WERE TO PURCHASE A LARGE
AMOUNT OF AMMUNITION, YOU KNOW, A NASSAU COUNTY POLICE OFFICER IS
GOING TO KNOCK ON MY DOOR. THERE'S A THOROUGH INVESTIGATION THAT
HAPPENS WITH MULTIPLE AGENCIES TO ENSURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ILLICIT
ACTIVITY AND THEN IT MIGHT TRIGGER LAW ENFORCEMENT. BUT THEN, YOU
KNOW, IT'S -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LAW -- MAJOR LAW ENFORCEMENT
AGENCIES.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT --
YOU SAID IT QUITE A FEW TIMES, IT MIGHT TRIGGER AN INVESTIGATION, BUT NO
CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED. IF THEY'RE BUYING A LAWFUL ITEM IN NEW
YORK STATE -- I'VE PERSONALLY BOUGHT BULK -- I'VE BOUGHT BULK AMMO.
LUCKILY, I PAID BY CHECK, BUT I BOUGHT THE AMMUNITION FOR A HIGH
SCHOOL SKI TEAM FOR A YEAR.
MS. SOLAGES: SO LIKE I SAID, THEY DO INTERNAL
INVESTIGATIONS TO DETERMINE, SO THAT'S -- SO IF YOU HABITUALLY PURCHASE
FIREARMS, THEN YOU'RE FINE.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. AND -- I'M NOT GOING TO
KEEP GOING ROUND AND ROUND, BUT I READ THE SPONSOR'S MEMO ON THIS
AND IT HAD A LOT OF STATISTICS ON CRIME AND THIS IS TRYING TO HELP PREVENT
THAT. BUT ANYTHING THAT THIS MCC CODE DOES IS GOING TO BE AFTER THE
FACT, AND IT WILL BE SUBSTANTIAL -- THERE WILL BE EVIDENCE TO SUBSTANTIATE
WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE FACT. HOW IS THIS GOING TO PREVENT ANYTHING?
(PAUSE)
MS. SOLAGES: SO THIS IS SIMILAR TO ANY OTHER ILLICIT
ACTIVITIES THAT HAPPENS. AS I SAID --
MR. ANGELINO: IT'S NOT ILLICIT ACTIVITY.
MS. SOLAGES: WELL, WE -- WE WERE -- WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT -- WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE A SCENARIO, SO IF WE
--
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY.
MS. SOLAGES: -- IF YOU ARE DOING REGULAR PURCHASE
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT, BECAUSE THE ALGORITHM WITHIN THE
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CREDIT CARD COMPANY WILL NOT IDENTIFY AS A SUSPICIOUS PURCHASE. BUT
WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT OTHER PATTERNS OF -- OF ANY SORT OF ILLICIT ACTIVITY,
AND THIS IS WHAT THE PURPOSE OF -- SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IF IT GOES TO A
LEVEL OF SARS, CORRECT?
MR. ANGELINO: YES.
MS. SOLAGES: SO IF IT TRIGGERS A SARS REPORT, THAT
MEANS THAT THE ALGORITHM AND THE INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS SAID THAT THIS
IS AN ACTIVITY THAT MIGHT BE OF CONCERN. AND THAT MEANS THAT IT'S -- IT
MUST BE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, VISA, MASTERCARD IS NOT GOING TO BE --
IS NOT GOING TO PUT THEMSELVES IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY COULD BE HELD
LIABLE. SO IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS TRIGGERING SOME TYPE OF
SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY. SO IT'S -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THAT EXAMPLE WHEN
IT COMES TO LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, I SAID HUMAN TRAFFICKING. THE ALGORITHM
CAN IDENTIFY THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, MYSTERIOUS
THINGS GOING ON, A LOT OF FRAUD ACTIVITY. THERE'S AN INVESTIGATION THAT'S
DONE BY THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY AND THEN IT GOES THROUGH THE TRIGGER
TO THE PROTOCOL. SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT EVERY DAY
PURCHASES. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AS THE PRIOR SPEAKER
SAID, YOU KNOW, ENJOYING BUYING AMMUNITION TO DO ACTIVITIES. WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT LIKE HIGH SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITIES, ACTIVITIES THAT'S LIKE BULK
PURCHASES, YOU KNOW, STRONG DONATIONS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAJOR,
MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR CRIMES.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH,
MADAM SPONSOR.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON THE BILL.
MR. ANGELINO: SOMEWHERE, SOMEPLACE IN NEW
YORK STATE SOMEBODY'S JUST GOING TO GET THEIR FIRST SHOTGUN, RIFLE OR
THEIR PISTOL PERMIT AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE EXCITED AND GO OUT AND BUY
THIS GUN, THAT GUN, AND MAYBE A THIRD GUN, AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO
BUY ALL SORTS OF AMMUNITION TO GO OUT AND LEARN HOW TO SHOOT IT AND -
ALL OF WHICH IS PERFECTLY LEGAL - BUT THEY MAY INCUR A SAR REPORT FOR
DOING COMPLETELY LEGAL ACTIVITY IN THE STATE. SO THINK LONG AND HARD
ABOUT THIS BECAUSE I'LL BE VOTING NO AND I WOULD URGE OTHERS TO DO THE
SAME. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. SIMPSON.
(PAUSE)
MR. SIMPSON: THERE WE GO. I PUSHED IT.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL YOU YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: SHE YIELDS.
MR. SIMPSON: THANK YOU. I -- AS I WAS LISTENING, I
BECAME EVEN MORE CONFUSED.
MS. SOLAGES: I'M GOING TO STOP STANDING NOW.
MR. SIMPSON: SO I REALLY APOLOGIZE TO, YOU KNOW
--
MS. SOLAGES: YEAH.
MR. SIMPSON: -- TO LENGTHEN THIS CONVERSATION.
THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER BULK AMMO, WHETHER THERE WAS A
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
LAW, WHETHER FEDERAL OR STATE, LIMITING THE AMOUNT OF AMMO THAT A
PERSON COULD PURCHASE.
MS. SOLAGES: SO THIS -- SO THAT -- SO THIS BILL IS
JUST MAKING A MERCHANT CODE.
MR. SIMPSON: CORRECT.
MS. SOLAGES: SO THIS -- THIS -- YOU CAN PURCHASE
WHAT YOU WANT --
MR. SIMPSON: RIGHT, BUT YOU WERE ASKED A
QUESTION --
MS. SOLAGES: -- AND VISA -- OKAY, GO AHEAD.
MR. SIMPSON: -- PRIOR TO ME, AND YOU SAID THAT
THERE WERE LAWS --
MS. SOLAGES: NO, I ACTUALLY SAID I -- I DON'T KNOW
THE ANSWER AND I -- I SAID THAT -- I CLEARLY SAID THAT.
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY, BUT --
MS. SOLAGES: BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THE -- GO
AHEAD, MR. SIMPSON.
MR. SIMPSON: I JUST WANT TO SAY YOU ALSO REFERRED
TO UNLAWFUL BULK AMMO PURCHASES, OR ILLEGAL. I THINK YOU USED BOTH
TERMS. SO I'M A LITTLE -- I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED AND I NEEDED
CLARIFICATION WHETHER YOU, IN YOUR ESTIMATION OR OPINION, THOUGHT THAT
THERE WERE LAWS PERTAINING TO HOW MUCH AMMO A NEW YORKER COULD
PURCHASE AT ANY TIME, ACCUMULATIVE OR A SINGLE PURCHASE.
MS. SOLAGES: SO WITH THE MCC CODE, WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT IDENTIFYING THE ALGORITHM WITHIN THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WILL HAVE A CERTAIN THRESHOLD, AND THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT BULK PURCHASES.
MR. SIMPSON: RIGHT, AND THAT LEADS ME -- MY NEXT
QUESTION WAS GOING TO BE PERTAINING TO -- I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE
CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO TRIGGER THE SARS. SARS IS GOING TO
BE TIED TO A SPECIFIC DOLLAR AMOUNT, RIGHT? NOT -- NOT THE ITEM
PURCHASED, BUT THE DOLLAR AMOUNT. AT LEAST THAT'S THE WAY I UNDERSTOOD
IT, CORRECT ME IF WRONG.
MS. SOLAGES: COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?
MR. SIMPSON: WOULD -- WHAT TRIGGERS THE SARS?
IS IT A DOLLAR AMOUNT, A SPECIFIC DOLLAR AMOUNT, OR IS IT THE PRODUCT THAT
SOMEONE BUYS? BECAUSE I KNOW THAT IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES IF YOU
DEPOSIT SO MUCH IN CASH IT TRIGGERS A REPORT -- IT TRIGGERS SOMETHING.
MS. SOLAGES: SO EACH PAYMENT NETWORK HAS THEIR
OWN --
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY.
MS. SOLAGES: -- PROTOCOL. AND SO WHEN WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT VISA, MASTERCARD, THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, BILLION DOLLAR
BUSINESSES ORGANIZATIONS, SO THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PROTOCOL AND THEY
HAVE THEIR OWN THRESHOLD. AND THIS IS REALLY ABOUT MAKING SURE THEY --
WITHIN THEIR -- THEIR ORGANIZATION, THEIR ALGORITHM CAN IDENTIFY WHAT'S
CONSIDERED BULK -- OR WHAT'S CONSIDERED SUSPICIOUS AMOUNT.
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. THAT CLEARS IT UP FOR ME,
BECAUSE I THINK THEY PROBABLY -- I WOULD THINK THEY'RE LOOKING AT DOLLAR
AMOUNTS, THEY PROBABLY ARE NOT DIGGING IN TO, UNTIL THERE'S A FURTHER
INVESTIGATION OF SOMETHING THAT --
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. SOLAGES: AS I SAID, THIS IS NOT ABOUT PRODUCT
LEVEL, YOU KNOW --
MR. SIMPSON: RIGHT.
MS. SOLAGES: -- PURCHASES. THIS IS ABOUT, YOU
KNOW, THE -- THE -- THE BULK OR THE FREQUENCY THAT COULD BE TIED TO, YOU
KNOW, DOMESTIC TERRORISM OR, YOU KNOW, ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES.
MR. SIMPSON: SO IN THAT CASE IF A CREDIT - AND
FORGIVE ME IF YOU'VE ALREADY ANSWERED THIS - A CREDIT CARD COMPANY
DECIDES THAT THIS LOOKS SUSPICIOUS TO THEM. WHO DO THEY REPORT THAT
TO?
MS. SOLAGES: SO IT WOULD TRIGGER A SARS. SO
THERE'S CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, A FEDERAL PROCESS --
MR. SIMPSON: SO IT WOULD GO TO THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT.
MS. SOLAGES: -- CALLED SARS THAT --
MR. SIMPSON: CORRECT. AND THAT'S BASED ON THE
DOLLAR AMOUNT.
MS. SOLAGES: THAT'S -- WELL, IT DEPENDS ON THE --
MR. SIMPSON: THE CODE AND --
MS. SOLAGES: -- WHAT, YOU KNOW, THE PAYMENT
NETWORK DECIDES USING ALGORITHM, USING INTERNAL INVESTIGATION, YOU
KNOW, THEY LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE -- THE -- THE -- THE PURCHASES,
THE FREQUENCY, AND THEY DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S CRIMINAL, AND THEN IT
TRIGGERS THE SARS AND THAT'S ANOTHER PROCESS. LIKE I SAID, THESE ARE
MAJOR ORGANIZATIONS SO THEY ARE -- I KNOW THAT THEY ARE -- ARE CAREFUL
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AT, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT THEY DON'T, YOU KNOW, CRIMINALIZE
NORMAL ACTIVITY.
MR. SIMPSON: RIGHT. OKAY, I THINK YOU'VE
ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU.
MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU.
MR. SIMPSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUICK QUESTION?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: SHE WILL.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: IF A PERSON WHO LIVES IN
NEW YORK AND GOES TO A GUN SHOW IN I'LL SAY OHIO OR PENNSYLVANIA, AS
I LIVE IN BUFFALO SO I CAN BE IN CLEVELAND OR PITTSBURGH A LOT QUICKER
THAN I CAN BE IN NEW YORK CITY. BUT IF THEY GO TO ONE OF THESE PLACES
TO A GUN SHOW AND THEY PURCHASE LARGE AMOUNTS OF AMMUNITION AND/OR
WEAPONS, WILL THESE MCC CODES PICK THAT UP?
MS. SOLAGES: SO FIRST YOU WOULD HAVE TO PURCHASE
THE ITEM WITH A CREDIT CARD COMPANY -- WITH A CREDIT CARD, EXCUSE ME,
AND THEN THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE TO BE A DEALER OF -- OF FIREARMS AND --
AND -- AND GUNS. SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE A FIREARM --
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: SO THERE ARE GUN SHOWS
IN OHIO AND PENNSYLVANIA, VERY LARGE ONES.
MS. SOLAGES: YEAH, BUT THIS IS -- THIS IS ONLY FOR
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE DEALERS WITHIN NEW YORK STATE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: OKAY, SO THIS IS ONLY FOR
DEALERS WITHIN NEW YORK STATE.
MS. SOLAGE: NEW YORK STATE, YEAH, THIS PARTICULAR
LAW, BUT THEY DO HAVE MCC CODES IN OTHER STATES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: DOES THIS PARTICULAR LAW
APPLY ANYWHERE ELSE IN AMERICA?
MS. SOLAGES: SO THERE ARE SEVERAL STATES WHO HAVE
PASSED THE MCC CODES WITHIN THEIR JURISDICTION.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: WHICH ONES ARE THOSE?
MS. SOLAGES: EXCUSE ME?
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: WHICH STATES ARE THOSE?
MS. SOLAGES: CALIFORNIA, A FEW OTHER STATES, I
DON'T HAVE THEM LISTED, BUT THERE'S SEVERAL STATES THAT -- THAT HAVE THIS.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: OKAY. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MS. BYRNES.
MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. SOLAGES: YES.
MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: SHE YIELDS.
MS. BYRNES: MY QUESTION IS IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT A
DOLLAR AMOUNT, AND YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT A COUPLE THINGS, BOTH BULK
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AMMO PURCHASES, BUT ALSO A THRESHOLD DOLLAR AMOUNT OF $10,000. AND
I GUESS MY QUESTION IS THAT OBVIOUSLY I PRESUME YOU'RE AWARE THAT
SOME SHOTGUNS AND FIREARMS CAN EASILY COST MORE THAN $10,000. COULD
THE PURCHASE OF JUST ONE LEGALLY PURCHASED SHOTGUN AUTOMATICALLY
TRIGGER THIS INVESTIGATION WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO HELP LAW ENFORCEMENT
FIND BAD GUYS, WHEN IT COULD BE A SHOTGUN TOTALLY USED FOR SPORT WHERE
THERE'S TARGET LOADS THAT AREN'T EVEN USED TO BE DESIGNED TO DO ANYTHING
EXCEPT KILL CLAY TARGETS, AND I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY A PURCHASE OF THAT
NATURE WOULD -- WOULD TRIGGER, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE BECAUSE OF THE DOLLAR
AMOUNT IT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY TRIGGER AN INVESTIGATION.
MS. SOLAGES: SO WE LEAVE IT UP TO THE PAYMENT
CARD -- THE PAYMENT CARD NETWORK TO DETERMINE THAT. BUT AGAIN, AS I
SAID, THIS IS NOT ABOUT A PRODUCT LEVEL AND THIS IS NOT ABOUT ONE OR TWO
INDIVIDUAL PURCHASES. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF
PURCHASES DONE AT A SHORT TIME THAT'S UNUSUAL. SO IF YOU ARE AN
INDIVIDUAL WHO'S PURCHASING SUCH FIREARMS SUCH AS ONE THAT'S, YOU
KNOW, $10,000 LIKE YOU -- LIKE YOU'RE SAYING --
MS. BYRNES: TEN, 15, 20, 40 --
MS. SOLAGES: -- 15, 20, YOU ARE --
MS. BYRNES: -- IT ALL DEPENDS HOW MUCH THEY'RE
ENGRAVED --
MS. SOLAGES: YOU ARE A STUDENT OF FIREARMS SO
YOU PROBABLY HAVE A HABITUAL CULTURAL OF PURCHASING FIREARMS, SO THAT
WON'T TRIGGER THE ALGORITHM. SO THE FIRST LEVEL OF DEFENSE IS FIRST AN
ALGORITHM THAT CAN IDENTIFY PURCHASES.
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MS. BYRNES: RIGHT.
MS. SOLAGES: THEN THERE'S INTERNAL INVESTIGATION.
AND IF THEY FIND UNUSUAL PURCHASES OR IF THEY FIND, YOU KNOW, THAT --
THE ACTIVITY IS SETTING OFF AN ALARM, THEN IT TRIGGERS MORE -- MORE
PROTOCOLS. BUT AGAIN, IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE JUST PURCHASING A FIREARM AND
YOU HAVE HABITUALLY PURCHASED FIREARMS, IT'S NOT GOING TO CREATE ANY -
SORRY FOR THE WORD - BUT CREATE ANY RED FLAGS, IT'S NOT GOING TO, YOU
KNOW, THE TERM -- IT'S NOT GOING TO TRIGGER ANY SORT OF, YOU KNOW,
SUSPICION. IF YOU ARE -- IF YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO IS JUST, YOU KNOW,
SOMEONE WHO IS A CONNOISSEUR OF -- OF -- OF GUNS, IT'S -- THE ALGORITHM
IS NOT GOING TO BE TRIGGERED. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE, YOU
KNOW --
MS. BYRNES: WELL, YOU'RE SAYING IT WOULDN'T BE
TRIGGERED, BUT YOU'VE ALSO INDICATED, AND THE BILL INDICATES A DOLLAR
AMOUNT OR A BULK AMMO, AND WE ALL KNOW -- I PRESUME ALL OF US KNOW
YOU CAN'T GO OUT AND BUY A BULLET, YOU'RE BUYING BOXES OF BULLETS, SAME
AS YOU CAN'T GO OUT AND BUY A CIGARETTE IN A STORE, YOU BUY A CARTON OF
CIGARETTES. I MEAN, THEY ARE PACKAGED IN BULK, IN BOXES. AND SO I
MEAN, JUST THE FACT THAT IT'S AUTOMATICALLY PURCHASED IN A WAY THAT
CONTAINS MULTIPLE ROUNDS, EVEN SHOTGUN SHELLS, YOU KNOW COME IN
BOXES AND CASES THAT IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THIS WOULD TRIGGER, ESPECIALLY
LIKE SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE, I HAVEN'T HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO OUT AND
PARTAKE IN MY FAVORITE SPORTS VERY MUCH, SO NOW I'M GOING TO RETIRE,
NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE THE TIME SO NOW I GO TO THE STORE, BOOM, I'M
BEING INVESTIGATED BECAUSE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN YEARS I'M NOW SPENDING
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MONEY.
MS. SOLAGES: YOU'RE -- FIRST OF ALL -- NUMBER ONE,
YOU'RE EXAGGERATING BECAUSE IF YOU ARE NOW ENGAGING IN THE ACTIVITY,
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE IDENTIFIED THAT WAY BECAUSE --
MS. BYRNES: HOW IS -- HOW IS THIS COMPANY,
MASTERCARD, VISA, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO KNOW? YOU KEEP TALKING
ABOUT ALGORITHMS AND THINGS THAT WILL SPUR AN INVESTIGATION AND A
CONCERN. YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS OF THE PERSON
WHO IS BEING INVESTIGATED WHO DOESN'T EVEN KNOW THEY'RE BEING
INVESTIGATED? IT'S JUST INCREDIBLE THAT YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT COULD
TRIGGER THINGS.
MS. SOLAGES: SO ALL YOUR CREDIT CARD PURCHASES
ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION. THE OTHER DAY I SWIPED MY CARD AT A LOCAL
STORE AND I GOT A FRAUD ALERT AND THEY STOPPED MY CREDIT CARD.
MS. BYRNES: YEAH.
MS. SOLAGES: SO THERE ARE INTERNAL PROCESSES BY
THESE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES TO ENSURE THAT THEY'RE PROTECTING YOUR --
YOUR MONEY, YOUR CREDIT AND YOUR IDENTITY.
MS. BYRNES: CORRECT.
MS. SOLAGES: SO TO SAY THAT THIS IS NOT HAPPENING,
WHEN THIS HAPPENS ON A REGULAR PURCHASE. WE CAN GO DOWN TO THE
STORE, IF IT'S UNUSUAL ACTIVITY YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY CAN IDENTIFY
THAT.
MS. BYRNES: ABSOLUTELY, WHICH IS WHY THE ISSUE OF
FRAUD IS I BELIEVE THAT YOU MENTIONED, IS MISPLACED BECAUSE IF THERE IS
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SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY ON MY CREDIT CARDS, I WILL GET, SAME AS I'VE HAD
WHEN I TRAVEL OUT OF THE AREA AND WAS PUTTING GAS IN MY MOTOR HOME
WHICH TOOK 100 GALLONS, AND IT STRUCK IT AS A FRAUD BECAUSE NORMALLY
PEOPLE DON'T BUY 100 GALLONS OF FUEL. AND IT STOPPED IT.
MS. SOLAGES: SO YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY HAD AN
INTERNAL PROCESS TO ALERT YOU --
MS. BYRNES: RIGHT.
MS. SOLAGES: -- TO ASK YOU IF THIS IS YOU.
MS. BYRNES: RIGHT, BUT THEY ALERTED ME --
MS. SOLAGES: EXACTLY.
MS. BYRNES: -- AS THE OWNER OF THE CREDIT CARD.
THEY DID NOT ALERT SOME INTERNAL TECHNIQUE THAT WOULD TRIGGER AND HELP
LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATE ME. NOW, IT'S DIFFERENT WHEN IT'S MY
CREDIT CARD AND THEY CALL ME AND SAY, DID YOU MAKE THESE PURCHASES,
WE WANT TO VERIFY THEM? YES, NO; WE GO FROM THERE. BUT WHEN --
MS. SOLAGES: I APPRECIATE YOUR --
MS. BYRNES: -- WE'RE CEDING OUR AUTHORITIES TO
ANOTHER PERSON IS WHERE I HAVE PROBLEMS. I INTERRUPTED YOU.
MS. SOLAGES: I APPRECIATE YOUR LINE OF
QUESTIONING BECAUSE YOU'RE CLARIFYING THE POINT. SEE, THE CREDIT CARD
COMPANY HAS A PROTOCOL SO THEY REACHED OUT TO YOU DIRECTLY TO HAVE A
CONVERSATION. THE OTHER SCENARIOS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WAS THAT IF IT
ARISED [SIC] TO A LEVEL WHICH IS GRAND SUSPICION, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, YOU
KNOW, IF SOMEONE PURCHASES A LARGE AMOUNT OF AMMO, THEY CALL YOU,
YOU WOULD SAY I DIDN'T DO THAT, THEN THAT WOULD TRIGGER A SARS. SO WE
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WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AT THE END WHEN WE IDENTIFY IF THERE'S
ANY ILLICIT ACTIVITY OR IF THERE'S ANY ISSUES BEYOND A SCOPE. SO, YOU
KNOW, YOUR POINT OF EXAMPLE IS CORRECT, IF YOU SWIPE THE CARD, THE
CREDIT CARD COMPANY TALKS TO YOU. AND THESE COMPANIES, THESE ARE --
LIKE I SAID, THESE ARE INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES THAT DON'T WANT -- THAT DO
NOT WANT TO BE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY SORT OF ACCUSATIONS OR MISSTEPS SO
I'M SURE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROTOCOL IN PLACE TO PROTECT PEOPLES'
INFORMATION AND DATA.
MS. BYRNES: YOU HAVE INDICATED THAT THEY WOULD
HAVE TO -- THAT YOU WOULD HOPE -- OR THAT THEY WOULD PUT ONE OR HAVE
ONE IN PLACE, HAVE ONE IN PLACE, BUT I THOUGHT THE WAY YOU WERE TALKING
BEFORE, YOU MADE IT SOUND LIKE THEY ALREADY HAVE ONE IN PLACE. ARE
YOU ANTICIPATING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO CREATE SOMETHING IN THE FUTURE
THAT WE DON'T EVEN KNOW NOW WHAT PROTECTIONS AND RIGHTS THE CREDIT
CARD HOLDER HAS?
MS. SOLAGES: WE ACTUALLY WORKED IN CONCERT WITH
THE MAJOR CREDIT CARD COMPANIES ON THIS LEGISLATION. WE INITIALLY HAD A
DRAFT OF THE BILL AND WE'VE TALKED TO ENTITIES FOR THEIR, YOU KNOW
DIRECTION, AND THEY HELPED US, YOU KNOW, TAKE ALL THE KINKS OUT OF THE
BILL. SO YOU KNOW, WE WERE IN CONVERSATION WITH THE CREDIT CARD
COMPANIES HOW TO STRENGTHEN THIS TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING
PEOPLES' INFORMATION, DATA, AND NOT -- AND MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE
HAVE THE --THE RIGHT AND PRIVILEGE TO PURCHASE FIREARMS, BUT ALSO
CREATING TRIGGERS TO PROTECT AND PREVENT FRAUD OR ANY SUSPICIOUS
ACTIVITIES.
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MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. SO THE ONLY LAST QUESTION I
HAVE IS, AND IT HAD BEEN ASKED BY MR. MANKTELOW I BELIEVE, ALSO.
WHAT CONSTITUTES A BUNCH OF AMMO, OR AMMO PURCHASE THAT WOULD
TRIGGER? BECAUSE AGAIN, I GO OUT AND I COMPETITIVELY SHOOT SHOTGUNS AT
CLAY TARGETS. AND I CAN EASILY GO OUT ON A WEEKEND AND GO THROUGH 5-
OR 600 ROUNDS OF SHOTGUN SHELLS IN A NORMAL COURSE OF A WEEKEND. SO I
MEAN, THAT'S KIND OF A BULK PURCHASE, IT'S ALSO GETTING VERY EXPENSIVE
NOWADAYS, ALSO. BUT I MEAN, IS A FACT THAT I GO OUT JUST TO MAKE THAT
PURCHASE GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY TRIGGER? DO YOU KNOW, OR ARE WE
RELYING ON THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES IN THE FUTURE TO CREATE AN
ALGORITHM THAT WILL SUPPORT TRYING TO FIND BAD GUYS AND IT'S GOING TO GET
GOOD GUYS, TOO?
MS. SOLAGES: SO THE PAYMENT CARD NETWORKS
WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT, BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND PEOPLE'S
PURCHASING HISTORY, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S TYPICAL. SO THIS BILL DOES NOT
DICTATE THAT. IT'S REALLY UP TO THE -- THE PAYMENT CARD NETWORKS TO COME
UP WITH A SCHEME. AND REALLY ALL WE'RE SAYING IN THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION IS THAT WE WANT TO CREATE A MERCHANT CREDIT CARD CODE FOR
THEM. SO, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT PROCESSING THAT WE WERE DISCUSSING
BEFORE, THAT'S INTERNALLY DONE THROUGH THE -- THE, YOU KNOW, CREDIT CARD
COMPANY, AND ALL WE'RE SAYING IS JUST CREATE A MERCHANT CODE. THERE'S
ACTUALLY, AS YOU SAID BEFORE, THERE'S AN AMOUNT IN THE BILL LANGUAGE AND
TEXT THERE'S NO AMOUNT.
MS. BYRNES: I THINK YOU WERE TO REFERRING TO
10,000.
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MS. SOLAGES: WELL, WE WERE MENTIONING SOME --
LIKE, SOME PROTOCOLS, BUT AS I SAID BEFORE, IT WOULD BE UP TO THE CREDIT
CARD COMPANY. IT WAS -- THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE HYPOTHETICALS AND
EXAMPLES BECAUSE --
MS. BYRNES: YUP.
MS. SOLAGES: -- AT THE END OF THE DAY IT'S UP TO THE
PAYMENT CARD NETWORK TO DETERMINE THAT, AND THERE'S ALSO MANY FACTORS
THAT GO INTO IT. SO, YOU KNOW, THESE -- THESE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES
KNOW THE BUSINESS AND I WANT TO RELY ON THEIR EXPERTISE AND ALL WE'RE
SAYING IS TO JUST CREATE A MERCHANT CODE SO THAT WE CAN BETTER PROTECT
OUR NEW YORKERS FROM, YOU KNOW, ILLICIT ACTIVITIES, YOU KNOW -- FRAUD.
MS. BYRNES: ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON THE BILL, MS.
BYRNES.
MS. BYRNES: JUST IN THE COUPLE MOMENTS I HAVE
LEFT, EVERY LAWFUL GUN OWNER, BE THEY A HANDGUN OWNER OR SHOTGUN,
RIFLE, EVERY LAWFUL FIREARM OWNER DOES NOT WANT BAD GUYS DOING BAD
THINGS WITH FIREARMS. IT GIVES ALL OF THE REST OF US A HORRIBLE NAME.
AND WE DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO LIVE BY THE RULES, TO DO THINGS THE
RIGHT WAY, TO TAKE THE TRAINING COURSES, THE SAFETY COURSES, TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE DO EVERYTHING RIGHT. BUT THIS PARTICULAR BILL WHICH CLEARLY IS
DESIGNED TO BE ABLE TO CREATE A WAY OF MONITORING SALES, AND NOT JUST
CERTAIN TYPES OF SALES, BUT SALES THROUGH SPECIFIC FIREARM DEALERS AND
FIREARM AMMUNITION SUPPLY PLACES, NOT TARGET, NOT WALMART, I MEAN, IT
IS SPECIFICALLY GOING AFTER THE LOCAL GUN DEALERS IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
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AND I'M VERY CONCERNED THAT, LIKE WITH MANY OF THE
OTHER BILLS THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED IN THIS LEGISLATURE OVER THE LAST FEW
YEARS THAT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. IS THAT THIS WILL GO AFTER AND CREATE
A BANK OF INFORMATION ABOUT LAWFUL CITIZENS, BUT IT WILL DO NOTHING
WHATSOEVER IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM TO PREVENT THE ILLEGAL USE OF
FIREARMS BY CRIMINALS THAT WE SEE IN OUR NEWSPAPERS EVERYDAY. THAT'S
WHAT THIS BODY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT AND GOING AFTER. LET'S GO AFTER THE
BAD GUYS, LET'S GO AFTER THE ONES WHO ARE ILLEGALLY IN POSSESSION OF
WEAPONS. BUT I'LL BE VOTING NO ON THIS BILL. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THOSE WHO WANT
TO VOTE FOR IT CAN DO SO ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE
OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME THAT WOULD NEED TO VOTE
OTHERWISE. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE AT THEIR SEAT.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
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RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. GIGLIO TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.
MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN
MY VOTE. SO IN ORDER FOR ME TO GO BUY AMMUNITION FOR MY GUN, I HAVE
TO GO TO A FIREARM STORE AND THEY IMMEDIATELY MAKE ME FILL OUT AN
STN, WHICH IS A STATE TRANSACTION NUMBER. THEY TAKE THAT NUMBER,
THEY SEND IT TO THE STATE POLICE WHO THEN SENDS IT TO THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT TO DO A NICS CODE AND A BACKGROUND CHECK. AND IT
COULD BE SEVEN TO TEN DAYS BEFORE I CAN BUY THAT AMMUNITION.
PROTOCOLS ARE IN PLACE TO PROTECT THIS MASS AMMUNITION PURCHASE AND
GUN PURCHASE, GUN PURCHASE, IF I WANT TO BUY A GUN, I HAVE TO FILL OUT
THE STN, STATE TRANSACTION NUMBER, AND I HAVE TO FILL OUT THE FEDERAL
FORM 4473, AND I HAVE TO ATTEST ON THE FORM THAT I'M NOT A DRUG ADDICT,
THAT I'M NOT A FELON, AND THEN THAT NUMBER IS SENT -- THAT FORM 4473 IS
SENT TO THE STATE POLICE WITH THE STATE TRANSACTION NUMBER IF I WANT TO
BUY A GUN. AND IT GETS SENT TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THEY DO THE
BACKGROUND CHECK ON ME BEFORE I CAN BUY THAT AMMO.
THIS IS TRUE FOR ACTIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT WHO HAVE A
FIREARM THAT IS NOT A STATE OR A POLICE-ISSUED FIREARM. IF THEY WANT TO
BUY AMMUNITION, THEY WANT TO BUY A GUN, THEY GO THROUGH THE SAME
PROCESS. THE PROTOCOLS ARE IN PLACE, AND THIS MCC CODE REQUIREMENT
OF CREDIT CARD COMPANIES, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO WONDER IF WHEN I LOOK
AT MY CREDIT CARD STATEMENT IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE PIE IN THE PIE
CHART THAT SAYS, "AMMUNITION." YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S REALLY VERY
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REDUNDANT, ALL THE PROTOCOLS ARE IN PLACE, AND I AGREE WITH MY
COLLEAGUE, AND WE WILL MISS HER, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE BAD GUYS THAT
HAVE THE GUNS THAT ARE GETTING THE AMMUNITION ILLEGALLY THAT ARE KILLING
COPS, SHOOTING COPS AND HURTING PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE STATE. AND IF
WE REALLY WANT TO CRACK DOWN ON GUN VIOLENCE IN NEW YORK STATE, IT'S
NOT THE LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS LIKE MYSELF, IT'S THE CRIMINALS. AND
THE CRIMINALS NEED TO HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: YOUR VOTE, PLEASE.
MS. GIGLIO: SO I'M VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE, AND
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: VERY GOOD.
MS. GIGLIO IN THE NEGATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ARE THERE ANY
OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 17, RULES REPORT NO. 511, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S07365-B, RULES REPORT
NO. 511, HOYLMAN-SIGAL (A10053-A, SIMON). AN ACT TO AMEND THE
PENAL LAW AND GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO PISTOL CONVERTERS.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: AN EXPLANATION
HAS BEEN REQUESTED, MS. SIMON.
MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL
RELATES TO PISTOL CONVERTERS. IT WOULD -- REQUIRE GUN MANUFACTURERS TO
USE REASONABLE CARE TO ENSURE THAT A CONVERTER THAT TENDS TO BE USED ON
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
GLOCK PISTOLS, BUT OTHER COPYCAT PISTOLS, THAT CAN EASILY BECOME A FULLY
AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUN.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. ANGELINO.
MR. ANGELINO: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
MS. SIMON: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. ANGELINO: GOOD EVENING.
MS. SIMON: GOOD EVENING.
MR. ANGELINO: GOOD MORNING.
MS. SIMON: GOOD MORNING.
MR. ANGELINO: RIGHT AT THE TOP. WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT BILL NO. 10053-A --
MS. SIMON: YES.
MR. ANGELINO: -- THE A-PRINT. WERE THERE
SIGNIFICANT CHANGES MADE FROM THE ORIGINAL TO THE A-PRINT?
MS. SIMON: NO.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. CAN YOU JUST, WAS IT JUST
WORDING? OR WHAT -- WHAT WAS CHANGED?
MS. SIMON: IT WAS SOME MINOR, YOU KNOW,
GRAMMATICAL THING.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU. SO THIS BILL HAS TWO
PARTS. THE FIRST PART, I SEE IT CHANGES A DEFINITION IN THE PENAL LAW AND
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IT ADDS A SUBSECTION -- SECTION 265, THAT'S SUBSECTION 36, AND IT DEFINES
PISTOL CONVERTER.
MS. SIMON: MM-HMM.
MR. ANGELINO: AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU JUST
DESCRIBED IN YOUR EXPLANATION.
MS. SIMON: YES.
MR. ANGELINO: SOME TIME AGO, I BELIEVE IT WAS
2021, WE ADDED SUBSECTION -- SUBSECTION 26 THAT SAYS RAPID FIRE
MODIFICATION DEVICE, WHICH MEANS ANY BUMP STOCK, TRIGGER CRANK,
BINARY TRIGGER SYSTEM, BURST TRIGGER SYSTEM OR ANY OTHER DEVICE THAT IS
DESIGNED TO ACCELERATE THE RATE OF FIRE OF A SEMIAUTOMATIC FIREARM, RIFLE,
OR SHOTGUN. IS THIS -- IS TODAY'S BILL DIFFERENT FROM THAT SECTION?
MS. SIMON: YES.
MR. ANGELINO: HOW IS IT DIFFERENT?
MS. SIMON: IT'S DIFFERENT BECAUSE THIS IS DESIGNED TO
PUT MANUFACTURERS ON NOTICE TO USE REASONABLE CARE AND ENSURE THAT
THEY'RE ACCOUNTABLE. AND SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE, THIS IS A
PARTICULAR TYPE OF CONVERTER THAT WORKS WITH A PARTICULAR TYPE OF
HANDGUN MOST FREQUENTLY, AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT, IN FACT, DOESN'T EXIST
AND CAN'T BE USED IN MANY OTHER HANDGUNS. BUT BECAUSE IT BECOMES A
FULLY AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUN THAT -- WHICH, MACHINE GUNS, AS YOU
KNOW, WERE BANNED IN 1936, WE ARE -- WANT TO ENSURE THAT THE GUN
MANUFACTURER EXERCISES AND THAT THE GUN DEALERS OR ANYBODY EXERCISES
GOOD, REASONABLE CARE TO ENSURE THAT THOSE KINDS OF CONVERTERS ARE NOT
USED IN NEW YORK STATE, NOT AIDING --
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MR. ANGELINO: I THINK YOU GOT --
MS. SIMON: -- ABETTING, SELLING, ET CETERA.
MR. ANGELINO: YOU GOT A LITTLE AHEAD OF ME.
MS. SIMON: OKAY, SORRY.
MR. ANGELINO: YOU WENT TO THE -- THERE WAS TWO
PARTS, THE FIRST PART WAS PENAL LAW, THE SECOND WAS GENERAL BUSINESS
LAW.
MS. SIMON: MM-HMM.
MR. ANGELINO: TALKING ABOUT THE PENAL LAW, WE
-- SECTION 26 -- SUBSECTION 26 OF 265 DEFINED THE RAPID FIRE
MODIFICATION AND THEN 36 IS THIS PISTOL CONVERTER, WHICH BASICALLY IT'S
ALMOST THE SAME DEFINITION, IT CAUSES A FIREARM TO FIRE RAPIDLY. AND
WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS I'LL PROBABLY USE FIREARM OR PISTOL, WE'RE
NOT TALKING ABOUT SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES.
MS. SIMON: CORRECT.
MR. ANGELINO: WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT
THAT. JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR AND EVERYBODY ELSE KNOWS. SO IT JUST LOOKS
LIKE WE'VE DUPLICATED THE SECTION OF THE PENAL LAW.
MS. SIMON: WELL, IT'S NOT QUITE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
SOME OF THESE OTHER KINDS OF MECHANISMS, CONVERTERS, ET CETERA THAT ARE
MODIFICATIONS THAT CAN BE MADE TO OTHER WEAPONS TO MAKE THEM
SEMI-AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, FOR EXAMPLE, TO INCREASE THEIR RAPID FIRE,
INCREASE THEIR MAGAZINE CAPACITY, ET CETERA, AREN'T ACTUALLY TURNING
THINGS INTO A FULLY AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUN. THERE'S A QUALITATIVE
DIFFERENCE THERE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. AND ALSO, I HAVE IN MY
NOTES THAT MACHINE GUNS WERE BANNED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN
1934, '36, WHAT'S IT MATTER NOW? THEY'RE BANNED. AND THAT'S THE NEXT
POINT I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT.
MS. SIMON: I THINK THEY PROBABLY BROUGHT THAT --
THAT BILL BEFORE THE HOUSE IN 1934 AND IT TOOK UNTIL 1936 TO GET PASSED.
MR. ANGELINO: WE KNOW THAT VERY WELL HERE
TONIGHT. AND WHICH BRINGS UP MY NEXT POINT, THE FEDERAL LAW ALREADY
BANS THESE.
MS. SIMON: YES.
MR. ANGELINO: SO WHY DOES NEW YORK STATE
NEED TO DO THIS?
MS. SIMON: WELL, BECAUSE WE HAVE IN NEW YORK
STATE THE GUN INDUSTRY ACCOUNTABILITY LAW, WHICH IS PART OF THE
GENERAL BUSINESS LAW 898, AS YOU MAY RECALL, AND THIS IS DESIGNED,
THIS BILL IS DESIGNED TO PUT MANUFACTURERS ON NOTICE THAT THEY PRODUCE A
WEAPON THAT CAN BE MADE INTO A FULLY AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUN. SOME
MANUFACTURERS DO THAT, MOST MANUFACTURERS DO NOT. THOSE WHO ARE
DOING THAT NEED TO -- TO CHANGE THEIR ACTIONS SO THAT THEY ARE TAKING
REASONABLE STEPS TO PREVENT THE INSTALLATION OF SUCH A -- OF SUCH A
CONVERTER AND TO PREVENT THE USE OF THIS WEAPON. AND IF THEY DON'T,
THEN THEY CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
MR. ANGELINO: SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO GET
TO NOW.
MS. SIMON: THAT WAS NUMBER TWO.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. ANGELINO: WE'RE GOING TO MOVE THE GENERAL
BUSINESS LAW SECTION, AND YOUR BILL WANTS TO AMEND THE GENERAL
BUSINESS LAW BY ADDING THE WORDS "REASONABLE CONTROLS AND
PROCEDURES" AT THE END OF THAT -- THERE'S A BIG LONG PRODUCT SECTION --
MS. SIMON: RIGHT.
MR. ANGELINO: -- IT LOOKS LIKE IT COULD BE ALMOST
ANYTHING, BUT WE'RE TALKING FIREARMS. AND YOU'RE GOING TO ADD
REASONABLE CONTROLS AND PROCEDURES. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE ALMOST
TALKING ABOUT WHEN -- IT POPPED INTO MY HEAD AS YOU WERE TALKING
ABOUT IT, THEY MANUFACTURE SOMETHING. IT'S ALMOST AS IF WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT PRODUCT LIABILITY; IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT?
MS. SIMON: WELL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PRODUCT
ACCOUNTABILITY. YOU HAVE A MANUFACTURER THAT HAS ONE IN PARTICULAR
THAT HAS, SINCE 1987, KNOWN THAT ITS WEAPON CAN BE CONVERTED TO AN
ILLEGAL MACHINE GUN. AND IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO CHANGE THAT. MOST
OTHER MANUFACTURERS, SMITH & WESSON, RUGER, DO NOT HAVE HANDGUNS
THAT ARE CAPABLE OF BEING SO CONVERTED.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY.
MS. SIMON: SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO
THAT, THE INDUSTRY AND OUR LAWS IN NEW YORK STATE SAY THAT A
MANUFACTURER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT.
MR. ANGELINO: DOES 10053-A, DOES THAT IN ANY
WAY BAN OR PROHIBIT ANY SORT OF FIREARM IN NEW YORK STATE?
MS. SIMON: NO.
MR. ANGELINO: THE -- AND JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR,
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WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE -- YOU SAID THE WORD GLOCK AND COPYCAT?
MS. SIMON: DID I SAY THE WORD GLOCK?
MR. ANGELINO: I BELIEVE YOU DID.
MS. SIMON: I MAY HAVE PREVIOUSLY.
MR. ANGELINO: I THINK YOU SAID GLOCK AND
COPYCATS, OR -- WELL...
MS. SIMON: I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THE WORD
GLOCK ON THE FLOOR, BUT I'M HAPPY TO SAY IT NOW IF YOU'D LIKE.
MR. ANGELINO: I THINK YOU DID.
MS. SIMON: I THINK MR. GLOCK KNOWS ALL ABOUT THIS,
IN FACT.
MR. ANGELINO: HE DIED.
MS. SIMON: WELL, HE DID KNOW ABOUT IT BEFORE HE
DIED.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. ANGELINO: THE -- HE DIED JUST RECENTLY,
ACTUALLY.
MS. SIMON: BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID OF THIS BILL.
MR. ANGELINO: I DON'T THINK SO.
SO -- AND JUST SO EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IN STREET TERMS, THE GLOCK SWITCH.
MS. SIMON: YES.
MR. ANGELINO: AND THE GLOCK SWITCH IS TOTALLY
ILLEGAL, AND YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BECAUSE IT TURNS YOUR WEAPON INTO A
MACHINE GUN.
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MS. SIMON: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
MR. ANGELINO: LIKE I SAID, IT'S COVERED BY
FEDERAL LAW. SO THE PENAL LAW SECTION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE ISN'T
AS IMPORTANT AS THE PRODUCT LIABILITY IN THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW
SECTION OF THIS BILL.
MS. SIMON: WELL, I HAVE A CERTAIN FONDNESS FOR THE
BILL AND SO I WOULD THINK THAT I DON'T WANT TO CHOOSE BETWEEN MY
CHILDREN, I WOULD SAY THAT BOTH SECTIONS ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.
MR. ANGELINO: WELL, THE ONE THAT CONCERNS ME
THE MOST IS THE CHANGES TO THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW BECAUSE IT SOUNDS
LIKE AT SOME POINT THE STRIKER-FIRED PISTOLS, WHICH ALMOST ANY AUTOMATIC
-- SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOL IS A STRIKER-FIRED PISTOL, MEANING THE SPRING SETS
THE TRIGGER EVERY TIME IT FIRES. AND WHEN YOU ATTACH THAT GLOCK SWITCH,
THAT'S WHAT TURNS IT INTO A RAPID FIRE. AND I GOTTA TELL YOU, NOBODY
WANTS -- NO GUN ENTHUSIAST AND NO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY WANTS ONE
OF THOSE BECAUSE IT WASTES AMMO -- WELL, IT'S ILLEGAL AND IT BASICALLY
WASTES AMMO. THE PRODUCT LIABILITY PART IN THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW,
I BELIEVE THE GLOCK PISTOL, OR ANY OF THOSE STRIKER-FIRED PISTOLS ARE
WORKING THE WAY THEY WERE DESIGNED TO BE MADE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
MS. SIMON: ACTUALLY, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD,
SIR, AND THAT IS THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE USED -- THEY ARE DESIGNED THE
WAY THEY ARE DESIGNED AND THEY COULD VERY EASILY MODIFY THEIR DESIGN
SO AS TO NOT BE SO EASILY CONVERTED INTO A MACHINE GUN.
MR. ANGELINO: COULDN'T I BUY A CAR AND SWAP
ENGINES AND HAVE A CAR THAT WOULD DO 120 MILES AN HOUR?
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MS. SIMON: THAT MAY BE, BUT THAT IS NOT THIS BILL.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY, SO THIS BILL SAYS WE'RE
TAKING A WEAPON THAT HAS A PATENT AND IT'S THE MOST POPULAR HANDGUN IN
THE UNITED STATES FOR -- FOR VARIOUS REASONS, BUT SOMEBODY IS
MODIFYING THAT. HOW IS THE MANUFACTURER SUPPOSED TO DO SOMETHING
THAT IS, WHAT IS IT, REASONABLE -- REASONABLE CONTROL.
MS. SIMON: REASONABLE STEPS TO PREVENT THE
INSTALLATION AND USE OF A PISTOL CONVERTER THAT COULD TURN YOUR WEAPON,
THAT COULD TURN YOUR PRODUCT INTO A MACHINE GUN. IF I'M A RESPONSIBLE
MANUFACTURER, I DO NOT WANT MY PRODUCT TURNED INTO A MACHINE GUN.
MR. ANGELINO: THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THESE PISTOLS
ARE RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE. THEY'VE BEEN VETTED BY NEW YORK STATE AND
HAVE A PERMIT.
MS. SIMON: THAT MAY BE TRUE, BUT IF THEY ALSO THEN
GET AN ILLEGAL SWITCH, THEY ARE USING THAT WEAPON IN AN ILLEGAL MANNER.
MR. ANGELINO: AND THAT WOULD BE A CRIME.
MS. SIMON: AND THAT WOULD BE A CRIME.
MR. ANGELINO: AND THEY SHOULD BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE.
MS. SIMON: AND THE MANUFACTURER IS SAYING, GO
AHEAD BOYS, CONVERT ME TO A MACHINE GUN. AND IN FACT, WE HAVE A
HUGE INCREASE IN THE USE OF THESE SWITCHES, IN THE IMPORTATION, AND THE
ABILITY OF PEOPLE TO MAKE THESE SWITCHES WITH A 3D PRINTER.
MR. ANGELINO: SO YOU --
MS. SIMON: SO WE HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH THE JONES',
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RIGHT?
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. SO YOU ENVISION THAT
GLOCK AND OTHER STRIKER-FIRED PISTOL MANUFACTURERS SHOULD DO
SOMETHING SO THAT THE GLOCK SWITCH OR THIS TRIGGER (INAUDIBLE) CAN'T BE
INSTALLED.
MS. SIMON: THAT WOULD BE THE EASY WAY FOR THEM
TO ENSURE THAT THEIR WEAPONS ARE NOT MISUSED IN THIS WAY.
MR. ANGELINO: WOULDN'T THAT CAUSE THEM TO
CHANGE THEIR WHOLE MANUFACTURING PROCESS?
MS. SIMON: YOU KNOW WHAT? GUN MANUFACTURERS
COME OUT WITH NEW PRODUCTS, CHANGES TO THEIR PRODUCTS ALL THE TIME.
THAT IS WHAT -- YOU KNOW, THIS IS HOW THEY SELL MORE GUNS. SO THIS IN
MY MIND IS NOT REMOTELY LIMITING OF THE MANUFACTURER. THIS IS WHAT
THEY DO.
MR. ANGELINO: I AM SURE THAT SOME OF MY
COLLEAGUES HAVE LISTENED TO THIS AND CAME UP WITH BETTER QUESTIONS
AFTER OUR DISCUSSION, AND FOR THAT I THANK YOU, AND I'D LIKE TO GO ON THE
BILL, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ON THE BILL.
MR. ANGELINO: WELL, FIRST AND FOREMOST, THANK
YOU TO MADAM SPONSOR.
SO SHE SAID THE MAGIC WORD FIRST, GLOCK. GLOCK IS A
WIDELY POPULAR HANDGUN FOR MANY REASONS, MOST REASONS ARE IT'S
RELIABLE AND IT'S SIMPLE. YOU CAN BREAK DOWN A GLOCK INTO FOUR PIECES
IN ABOUT 15 SECONDS, IT'S EASILY CLEANED AND PUT BACK TOGETHER QUICKLY.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AND THEY BASICALLY NEVER MALFUNCTION, VERY, VERY SOUGHT AFTER PISTOL BY
LAW ENFORCEMENT AND TARGET SHOOTING. AND APPARENTLY, ACCORDING TO
THE SPONSOR, GANG BANGERS WHEN THEY PUT THEIR GLOCK SWITCH ON THEM.
WE'VE ALL SEEN THOSE VIDEOS, THEY'RE HORRENDOUS. I CRINGE BECAUSE
SOMEBODY'S ON THE RECEIVING END, AND THAT'S DEFINITELY A DEPRAVED
INDIFFERENCE TO HUMAN LIFE WHEN SOMEBODY FIRES UP TO 20-SOME ROUNDS
IN A MATTER OF SECONDS WILDLY IN A STREET.
I DO WANT TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION, NEW YORK STATE
OWNS THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF THESE PISTOLS. I BELIEVE WE HAVE OVER
5,000 TROOPERS WHO CARRY STRIKER-FIRED PISTOLS MADE BY GLOCK, AND THE
NEW YORK STATE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION HAS ANOTHER
5,000-PLUS OFFICERS, THEY, TOO, CARRY THAT SAME STRIKER-FIRED GLOCK. THE
-- THE PISTOL ITSELF IS NOT THE PROBLEM. IT'S WHAT SOMEBODY DOES TO IT TO
CONVERT IT LATER. AND WE ALREADY KNOW THEY'RE BREAKING NEW YORK
STATE LAW, AND THEY'RE BREAKING FEDERAL LAW SINCE 1934 OR '36. AND
ATF, THE FEDERAL AGENCY DESIGNED TO INVESTIGATE FIREARMS CRIMES, THEY
BANNED THE AUTO SEAR OR THE GLOCK SWITCH BEFORE IT WAS EVEN INVENTED
BECAUSE THEY KNEW IN 1986 THAT THIS PISTOL WAS SO SIMPLE THAT IT COULD
BE CONVERTED. THEY ALREADY REALIZED WHAT A GUNSMITH, OR BASICALLY
SOMEBODY ON THE STREET COULD DO WITH THIS, AND IN 1986 THEY BANNED IT
WITH THE HUGHES AMENDMENT TO THE FEDERAL LAW.
LIKE I SAID, SERIOUS GUN ENTHUSIASTS AND POLICE
OFFICERS DON'T WANT THIS. THERE'S NO NEED FOR IT. IT'S NOT A COMBAT
WEAPON EITHER. IT'S A SHORT-BARRELED HANDGUN THAT'S BASICALLY A BULLET
SPRAYER, AND I DON'T WANT THEM. BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT THE PRODUCT
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LIABILITY PORTION OF THIS BILL IMPACTING NOT JUST GLOCK, BUT EVERY
STRIKER-FIRED PISTOL THAT YOU CAN CONVERT. IT'S JUST THAT THE MANUFACTURER
WE'RE ASKING TO CHANGE THEIR PATENT, SOMETHING THAT'S TRIED AND TRUE AND
RELIABLE, AND THEN SOMEBODY'S GOING TO FIGURE OUT ANOTHER WAY WITH A
3D PRINTER TO GET AROUND IT. AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE GUN ENTHUSIAST,
IT'S GOING TO BE A CRIMINAL ON THE STREET.
(BUZZER SOUNDED)
AND WITH THAT, I'LL LEAVE IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE. THANK
YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU, MR.
ANGELINO.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: A PARTY VOTE
HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL. IF THERE ARE -- THOSE WHO
WISH TO SUPPORT IT THEY CAN DO SO HERE ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE
OF LEGISLATION.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN
MY VOTE. THE GLOCK SWITCH IS A DEVICE THAT'S USED TO CONVERT
SEMIAUTOMATIC GLOCK PISTOLS INTO FULLY AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUNS,
ALLOWING SOMEONE TO FIRE ROUNDS CONTINUOUSLY AT A RATE OF UP TO 1,200
ROUNDS PER MINUTE WITH A SINGLE PULL OF THE TRIGGER. IT'S ABOUT THE SIZE
OF A QUARTER, CAN BE EASILY INSTALLED AND EASILY CREATED THROUGH A 3D
PRINTER.
IMPORTS OF THESE TRIGGER MECHANISMS HAVE INCREASED
DRAMATICALLY. SINCE 19 -- IN 2021, THE ATF FIELD OFFICE IN DALLAS
RECOVERED 36 GLOCK SWITCHES. IN 2022 THEY RECOVERED 1,026, A 2,750
PERCENT INCREASE YEAR OVER YEAR. THROUGHOUT OUR COUNTRY AND EVEN IN
NEW YORK STATE, WE ARE FINDING GLOCK SWITCHES IN THE CONDUCT OF
CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IN INCREASING AMOUNTS. AND SO WHAT THIS BILL WOULD
DO WOULD MAKE VERY CLEAR WHAT IT IS THAT WE MEAN BY SUCH A SWITCH,
AND IT WOULD ADD THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE REASONABLE CONTROLS AND
PROCEDURES TO THE LIST OF THINGS THAT GUN MANUFACTURERS MUST TAKE
REASONABLE STEPS TO PREVENT THE INSTALLATION AND USE OF A PISTOL -- A
PISTOL CONVERTER. MEANING THEY WOULD NEED TO DESIGN THEIR GUNS IN
SUCH A WAY THAT WOULD MAKE THEM NOT EASILY CONVERTED INTO A MACHINE
GUN. THAT IS VERY, VERY REASONABLE. IF A MANUFACTURER DOES NOT DO
THAT, THEN THEY CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE EITHER BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL,
BY SURVIVORS OF GUN VIOLENCE HARMED BY THAT PARTICULAR PRODUCT, OR BY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CITIES.
THIS IS VERY REASONABLE, SAFE GUN POLICY AND NOW,
GOD WILLING, IT WILL BECOME LAW. I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MS. SIMON IN
THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. ANGELINO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WISH
WE COULD FOCUS ON THE PEOPLE THAT DO THIS, NOT THE OBJECT THAT IS
INANIMATE. THE GLOCK PISTOL IS -- AND OTHER SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOLS, ARE
WORKING JUST AS DESIGNED AND THEY'RE USED BY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE,
PARTICULARLY OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THIS STATE. I JUST DON'T SEE THE
REASON THAT WE'RE GOING AFTER THE -- LAYING THE GROUNDWORK FOR FUTURE
LAWSUITS ON A PRODUCT THAT WORKS JUST AS IT IS SUPPOSED TO. WHAT WE
SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON IS WHEN THE PERSON CHANGES THAT DESIGN AND
MAKES IN INTO SOMETHING THAT IT WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE, AND WE'RE
GOING TO PLAY CAT AND MOUSE WITH THIS FOREVER. IF WE CAN CONVINCE THE
GLOCK CORPORATION AND ALL THE REST OF THE PISTOL MANUFACTURERS TO
CHANGE SOMETHING ON THEIR PISTOL, THE 3D TECHNOLOGY AND OTHER
MANUFACTURING GO-AROUNDS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN AND THESE PISTOLS ARE
GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE TURNED INTO THAT. IT'S CRIMINALS DOING THIS, IT'S NOT
THE COMPANY AND IT'S NOT THE LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN. FOR THOSE REASONS,
I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. ANGELINO
IN THE NEGATIVE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 18, RULES REPORT NO. 522, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S09837, RULES REPORT NO.
522, SENATOR MYRIE (A10541, COMMITTEE ON RULES--ZINERMAN). AN
ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO CURING BALLOTS.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MS. ZINERMAN,
AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. ZINERMAN: GOOD MORNING. THIS BILL WOULD
ENSURE THAT VOTERS ARE ABLE TO CURE THEIR ABSENTEE BALLOTS WITHIN THEIR
ALLOWED TIME FRAME. AS WE ALL KNOW WITH THE ADVENT OF EARLY MAIL
VOTING, IT IS EXPECTED THAT MORE NEW YORKERS MAY CHOOSE TO VOTE BY
MAIL, THUS CAUSING A POTENTIAL FOR MORE BALLOTS TO NEED A CURE. BY
SUPPLYING VOTERS WITH A POSTAGE PAID ENVELOPE IN WHICH THEY RETURN
THEIR AFFIRMATION FORM AND ALLOWING VOTERS TO SUPPLY THEIR AFFIRMATION
FORM VIA E-MAIL, THIS BILL WOULD INCREASE THE CHANCE OF THE VOTER TO
RETURN THEIR AFFIRMATION WITHIN THE ALLOTTED TIME FRAME.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. NORRIS.
MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD JUST FOR A COUPLE QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
MS. ZINERMAN: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: YES, THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. NORRIS: GREAT. IN TERMS OF THE AFFIRMATION,
DOES THAT OCCUR FOLLOWING THAT THE BALLOT IS RETURNED TO BOARD OF
ELECTIONS?
MS. ZINERMAN: YES.
MR. NORRIS: AND WHO PROCESSES THE INFORMATION
BACK TO TO THE VOTER SAYING THERE HAS TO BE A POTENTIAL AFFIRMATION
RETURN?
MS. ZINERMAN: AFTER THE -- BOTH PARTY'S
CANVASSERS REVIEW THE BALLOTS AND THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, THEN IT SENDS
IT BACK TO THE VOTER.
MR. NORRIS: SO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS NOTIFIES THE
VOTER --
MS. ZINERMAN: YES.
MR. NORRIS: -- THAT THERE MAY BE AN ISSUE, AND
THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEND BACK THEIR AFFIRMATION.
MS. ZINERMAN: YES.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY. AND RIGHT NOW THERE'S NO
POSTAGE PAID RETURN FOR THAT?
MS. ZINERMAN: NO. THE ONLY PRE-POSTAGE PAID
WE HAVE IS FOR VOTER REGISTRATION.
MR. NORRIS: AND DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY OF THESE
AFFIRMATION FORMS WERE SENT OUT LAST YEAR OR PREVIOUS YEARS, WHICH
WOULD GET COST THEN TO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS?
MS. ZINERMAN: I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
IT IS COVERED WITHIN OUR BUDGET SO THERE'S NO NEW FISCAL FOR THIS
PROCESS.
MR. NORRIS: WILL THE STATE REIMBURSE THE COUNTIES
FOR THIS COST?
MS. ZINERMAN: IT'S ALREADY -- IT'S ALREADY WITHIN
THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS BUDGET, SO COUNTIES WON'T BE RESPONSIBLE.
MR. NORRIS: I GUESS MY QUESTION IS JUST SO I'M
CLEAR ON THIS. USUALLY IT'S A COUNTY OR A CITY BOARD EXPENSE WHEN YOU
DEAL --
MS. ZINERMAN: COULD YOU JUST REPEAT THAT?
MR. NORRIS: YES, I'D BE HAPPY TO. TYPICALLY, IT IS
A CITY OR COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS EXPENSE WHEN THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE
THE VOTER WITH THIS FORM, AND THEN THE RETURN BACK. SO MY QUESTION TO
YOU IS --
MS. ZINERMAN: YES.
MR. NORRIS: -- WHO ACTUALLY WILL PAY FOR THAT
POSTAGE? WILL IT BE THE LOCAL TAXPAYERS, OR WILL THAT BE PART OF THE
REIMBURSEMENT PROCESS THROUGH THE STATE?
MS. ZINERMAN: OKAY. AND SO AS I STATED BEFORE,
IT'S CURRENTLY IN THE -- IT'S ALREADY IN THE BUDGET, IN YOUR COUNTY BUDGET,
THE SAME WAY THE ABSENTEE BALLOT IS MAILED, IT'S CONTAINED WITHIN THAT
SAME BUDGET.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY. AND THEN CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO
ME THIS E-MAIL RETURN SYSTEM? THE E-MAIL RETURN SYSTEM, HOW THEY'LL
ACTUALLY DO THAT?
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. ZINERMAN: YES.
MR. NORRIS: I MEAN THEY'LL SEND AN E-MAIL BACK,
BUT --
MS. ZINERMAN: RIGHT.
MR. NORRIS: -- BUT DO WE KNOW IF IT WILL ACTUALLY
BE THAT PERSON SENDING THE E-MAIL BACK?
MS. ZINERMAN: OH, ABSOLUTELY. THEY WILL HAVE TO
PROVIDE THE SAME INFORMATION THAT WAS ON THE ORIGINAL ABSENTEE BALLOT
THAT THEY SUBMITTED SO THE SIGNATURE HAS TO MATCH, THE NAME, THE
ADDRESS, ALL THE SAME INFORMATION WOULD BE REVIEWED BY THE
CANVASSERS TO ENSURE THAT IT IS, INDEED, THE VOTER WHO IS TRYING TO CURE
THE BALLOT.
MR. NORRIS: DOES THE ORIGINAL FORM COME BACK
WITH THE ORIGINAL SIGNATURE?
MS. ZINERMAN: DOES THE -- WELL, WE HAVE THE
ORIGINAL FORM.
MR. NORRIS: WELL, WHEN THEY FILL OUT THE FORM BY
E-MAIL AND IT GOES BACK, WILL THERE -- WILL THEY ALSO HAVE TO SEND TO THE
BOARD OF ELECTIONS THE ORIGINAL FORM WITH THE ORIGINAL SIGNATURE FOR
VERIFICATION?
MS. ZINERMAN: NO, NO.
MR. NORRIS: JUST THE E-MAIL?
MS. ZINERMAN: NO, BUT THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE THEIR
SIGNATURE AS WELL, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE MATCHING.
MR. NORRIS: AND IT COULD BE A SCAN.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. ZINERMAN: NO, IT CAN'T BE A SCAN BECAUSE IT IS
THE ORIGINAL E-MAIL WITH YOUR SIGNATURE.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.
MS. ZINERMAN: YOU'RE WELCOME.
MR. NORRIS: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ON THE BILL.
MR. NORRIS: THIS IS REALLY A RELATIVELY SIMPLE BILL.
WHAT IT IS IS IT WILL PROVIDE AN INDIVIDUAL WITH A POSTAGE-PAID ENVELOPE
WHEN THERE IS A CURE AFFIRMATION THAT IS REQUESTED TO BE SENT BACK FROM
THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS. THERE COULD ALSO BE AN ELECTRONIC FORM SENT
BACK BY THE VOTER AS WELL UNDER THIS LEGISLATION.
I HAVE TWO CONCERNS ABOUT IT. NUMBER ONE, THE COST.
WE CONTINUE TO HAVE COSTS WHEN IT COMES TO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS
EXPENSES. AS INDICATED, IT MAY COME OUT OF THE COUNTY LINE, BUT THE
FACT OF THE MATTER IS IT'S STILL TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. AND I BELIEVE STRONGLY
THAT WHEN SOMEONE RETURNS THEIR BALLOT, IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO
MAKE SURE THAT THEIR BALLOT IS RETURNED BACK PROPERLY WITH THE PROPER
INFORMATION AND THE SIGNATURES. AND ADDITIONAL COSTS BORNE BY THE
TAXPAYERS I DON'T THINK IS APPROPRIATE, IT'S A BURDEN. IT'S ALSO A BURDEN
ON THE LOCAL BOARD OF ELECTIONS WHO ARE ALREADY TRYING TO PROCESS
THOUSANDS OF BALLOTS BEING RETURNED AND, YET, THIS STAFF AND OFTENTIMES
LIMITED STAFF HAVE TO SPEND COUNTLESS HOURS TO RETURN THIS INFORMATION
TO THE VOTERS, AND I DO ALSO HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THE POTENTIAL SECURITY
OF A SCANNED FORM GOING BACK. DO WE REALLY KNOW IT WAS THAT PERSON
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WHO ACTUALLY SENT IT BACK WITHOUT A REAL SIGNATURE, ORIGINAL FOR
VERIFICATION PURPOSES. IT'S NOT A PHOTOCOPY, IT'S NOT A SCANNED
SIGNATURE, OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.
SO FOR THOSE REASONS, I JUST BELIEVE THIS IS COSTLY, WAY
TOO BROAD AND, THEREFORE, I WILL BE OPPOSING THIS BILL, AND I ENCOURAGE
MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MS. ZINERMAN.
MS. ZINERMAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ON THE BILL.
MS. ZINERMAN: AS MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED, THIS
IS A RELATIVELY SIMPLE BILL. WE ARE 21ST CENTURY CITIZENS, WE'VE BEEN
USING E-MAIL FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOW AS A NORMAL BUSINESS PRACTICE,
AND SO WE WANT TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, OUR
ELDERLY, PEOPLE WHO ARE DEAF/BLIND, HAVE A PROCESS AND JUST A LITTLE
EXTRA TIME TO EXERCISE THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE IN THIS STATE. AS TAXPAYERS,
WE -- WE -- ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE VOTERS, WE SPEND OUR MONEY AND
OUR TAX DOLLARS ON A PLETHORA OF THINGS. I THINK THAT WE'RE OKAY TO COVER
THE COST OF POSTAGE, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IT IS CONTAINED WITHIN THE STATE
BUDGET AND NOT THE MUNICIPALITIES. AND SO I JUST THINK THIS IS A
COMMON SENSE MEASURE FOR OUR -- THE VOTERS OF OUR STATE TO HAVE THE
ABILITY TO VOTE WITH CONFIDENCE AND UNDERSTAND IF THEY -- IF THEY MAKE A
SIMPLE MISTAKE, LIKE FORGETTING TO WRITE THEIR NAME ON THE ENVELOPE,
THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE CURED BY E-MAIL AND IN -- OR IN A
PREPAID POSTAGE. SO I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND YIELD MY TIME.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT SEPTEMBER
1ST, 2024.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: A PARTY VOTE
HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED
BY MR. NORRIS. THOSE WHO WISH TO SUPPORT IT CAN VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF
THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME THAT WOULD
DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, MEMBERS
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
HAVE ON THEIR DESK A B-CALENDAR. I'D LIKE TO ADVANCE THAT B-CALENDAR.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ON A MOTION BY
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, THE B-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR. IF WE
COULD NOW GO TO RULES REPORT NO. 591 BY MR. DINOWITZ.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: PAGE 3, RULES
REPORT 591, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03351-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 591, DINOWITZ, PAULIN, L. ROSENTHAL, GLICK, BENEDETTO,
SIMON, BURGOS, TAPIA, EPSTEIN, DARLING, DICKENS, ZINERMAN, STECK,
THIELE, KELLES, REYES, LEVENBERG, HEVESI, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, FAHY,
ARDILA, CARROLL, RAGA, DE LOS SANTOS, RAMOS, TAYLOR, COLTON, LEE,
BORES, CUNNINGHAM, GIBBS, OTIS, SILLITTI, SIMONE, BURDICK, KIM,
SOLAGES, ZACCARO, CLARK, CRUZ, EACHUS, SEAWRIGHT, WEPRIN, BURKE,
SHIMSKY, LUNSFORD, STIRPE, DAVILA, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, LAVINE, K.
BROWN, BARRETT, WALKER, SEPTIMO, STERN, PEOPLES-STOKES, AUBRY,
CHANDLER-WATERMAN, SAYEGH, ALVAREZ, JACKSON, PRETLOW,
SANTABARBARA, GUNTHER, BRONSON, MEEKS, COOK, JEAN-PIERRE,
ANDERSON, JACOBSON, DAIS, MCDONALD, ROZIC, PHEFFFER AMATO, LUCAS,
RAJKUMAR. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN
RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE CLIMATE CHANGE ADAPTATION COST RECOVERY
PROGRAM; AND TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO
ESTABLISHING THE CLIMATE CHANGE ADAPTATION FUND.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ON A MOTION BY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
MR. DINOWITZ, AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. DINOWITZ: CERTAINLY. SO THIS BILL CALLED THE
CLIMATE CHANGE SUPERFUND ACT, ESTABLISHES A SOURCE OF REVENUE TO
ADDRESS THE CLIMATE CRISIS, AND IT WOULD GREATLY REDUCE THE VERY COSTLY
BURDEN TO THE NEW YORK STATE TAXPAYERS WHO ARE ALREADY SUFFERING
VERY MUCH FROM RISING COSTS, INFLATION, ENERGY COSTS, AND IT'S BASED ON
THE POLLUTER PAYS LEGAL PRINCIPLE, SO IT ENSURES THAT BIG OIL COMPANIES
ARE HELD FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RISING COSTS OF THE CLIMATE
CATASTROPHE, SPECIFICALLY FOR FUNDING CLIMATE DAMAGE REPAIR AND
RESILIENT PROJECTS.
SO WHAT IT DOES IS IT WOULD RAISE $3 BILLION A YEAR FOR
25 YEARS, THAT'S 25 TIMES 3, AND IT WOULD BE AN ASSESSMENT AGAINST THE
WORST POLLUTERS. THOSE ARE POLLUTERS WHO HAVE CAUSED -- THERE'S A
QUANTIFIABLE WAY OF DETERMINING WHO CAUSED THE MOST DAMAGE, AND
APPROXIMATELY 35 TO 40 COMPANIES WOULD FALL INTO THE CATEGORY OF
THOSE POLLUTERS WHO HAVE CAUSED THE -- THE DAMAGE. AND THEY WOULD
BE THE ONES TO PAY A PROPORTIONAL SHARE OF THE $3 BILLION EACH YEAR
BASED ON HOW MUCH POLLUTION THEY CAUSED.
AND OVER THE COURSE OF -- AND I JUST WANT TO READ YOU
SOME -- A COUPLE OF STATISTICS, BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW. THE
ESTIMATED COST FOR UPGRADING NEW YORK CITY'S SEWER SYSTEM IS
APPROXIMATELY $100 BILLION. A PROPOSAL TO PROTECT THE CITY FROM
FLOODING COULD COST MORE THAN $50 BILLION, AND THE PRICE TAG FOR
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PROTECTING LONG ISLAND, LONG ISLAND, A BUNCH OF YOU FROM LONG ISLAND,
IS ESTIMATED TO BE AT LEAST $75- TO $100 BILLION. AND SO THE TREMENDOUS
COSTS THAT ARE INVOLVED, AND I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT'S BEEN
HAPPENING, WE SEE 100-YEAR STORMS TAKING PLACE LIKE ALL THE TIME NOW,
WE'VE SEEN 500-YEAR STORMS A NUMBER OF TIMES IN RECENT YEARS. I KNOW
IN MY OWN DISTRICT, AND I -- AND IT DIDN'T JUST AFFECT MY DISTRICT, BUT
WHEN WE HAD I THINK IT WAS HURRICANE IDA JUST A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO,
THE MAJOR DEEGAN EXPRESSWAY, WHICH IS THE NEW YORK STATE THRUWAY
WHEN IT COMES SOUTH OF YONKERS INTO THE BRONX, WAS FLOODED LIKE UP
TO HERE (INDICATING); IT NEVER, EVER HAPPENED BEFORE, EVER. AND WE'VE
SEEN FLOODS LIKE THAT. WE'VE SEEN COASTAL FLOODING, EVENTS THAT HAVE
NEVER TAKEN PLACE BEFORE IN THE HISTORY.
SO WHAT IS HAPPENING? THIS CLIMATE CHANGE, IT'S NOT
JUST A SORT OF A -- A BLIP, YOU KNOW, NOT A TEMPORARY TREND. SO WE'VE
SEEN EVENTS, WHETHER IT'S HURRICANES OR TORNADOES IN PLACES THAT HAVE
TORNADOES, SNOWSTORMS, AND OTHER EVENTS HAPPEN MUCH MORE
FREQUENTLY AND MUCH MORE SEVERELY. AND THE COST OF DEALING WITH IT IS
STAGGERING. AND BY THE WAY, THAT HURRICANE IDA, PEOPLE DIED IN -- IN
QUEENS BECAUSE THEIR BASEMENT APARTMENTS WERE FLOODED. SO WE'VE
HAD ONE EVENT LIKE THAT AFTER ANOTHER. I THINK IN ONE OF MY COLLEAGUE'S
DISTRICTS TWO YEARS AGO WHO REPRESENTS I GUESS PART OF THE HUDSON
VALLEY, THEY HAD AN INCREDIBLE FLOODING THERE CAUSING TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE
DAMAGE AND INJURY AS WELL.
SO WHAT THIS ATTEMPTS TO DO IS RAISE SOME OF THE
MONEY THAT'S NECESSARY TO DO THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DO FROM THE
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VERY PEOPLE WHO CAUSED THE DAMAGE -- THE VERY ENTITIES, I SHOULD SAY,
WHO CAUSED THE DAMAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHICH ARE THE FOSSIL FUEL
COMPANIES, OIL COMPANIES, AND MAKE THEM PAY A LITTLE BIT OF THE -- OF
THE COST OF FIXING THE PROBLEM THAT THEY THEMSELVES WERE RESPONSIBLE
FOR. AND IT DOES IT IN A FAIR AND EQUITABLE WAY, AND WE SHOULD ALL KEEP
IN MIND THAT THIS DAMAGE, WHICH WE HAVE TO ADDRESS, HAS TO BE PAID
FOR. SO THE QUESTION IS WHETHER WE ALL PAY FOR IT, THE TAXPAYERS PAY FOR
IT, OR AT LEAST THE OIL COMPANIES PAY FOR A LITTLE PIECE OF IT, AND THAT'S
WHAT THIS BILL IS ABOUT. AND IT ESTABLISHES A FUND THAT WOULD BE
ADMINISTERED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION TO
DETERMINE HOW THE MONEY IS GOING TO BE SPENT, WHAT IT'S GOING SPENT
FOR, AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF THINGS THAT THE MONEY
WOULD BE SPENT FOR, INCLUDING UPGRADING STORM WATER DRAINAGE
SYSTEMS, MAKING DEFENSIVE UPGRADES TO ROADS, BRIDGES, SUBWAYS AND
TRANSIT SYSTEMS, I'M JUST GOING TO NAME A FEW OF THE MANY THINGS,
PREPARING FOR AND RECOVERING FROM HURRICANES AND OTHER EXTREME
WEATHER EVENTS, UNDERTAKE AND PREVENTIVE HEALTH CARE PROGRAMS AND
PROVIDING MEDICAL CARE TO TREAT ILLNESS OR INJURY CAUSED BY THE EFFECTS
OF CLIMATE CHANGE, RELOCATING, ELEVATING, OR RETROFITTING SEWAGE
TREATMENT PLANS VULNERABLE TO FLOODING. AND IN MY OWN DISTRICT, WE
HAVE THE METRO-NORTH HUDSON LINE RAILROAD, THE RAILROAD TRACKS ARE,
LIKE, THIS FAR (INDICATING) FROM THE HUDSON RIVER, I'M NOT EXAGGERATING,
IT'S JUST -- YOU KNOW, SEVERAL FEET AWAY AND IT'S PRETTY MUCH ON THE
SAME LEVEL. AT SOME POINT, THE MTA IS GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A
WAY TO PREVENT THOSE RAILROAD TRACKS, AND IT'S NOT JUST IN THE BRONX
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PORTION, IT'S ALSO IN WESTCHESTER AS ONE EXAMPLE, TO I DON'T KNOW, LIFT IT
UP, BLOCK IT OFF, WHATEVER THEY HAVE TO DO, ALL THAT STUFF COSTS HUGE
AMOUNTS OF MONEY. AND IF THE WORK ISN'T DONE, WE WON'T HAVE THE
RAILROAD ANYMORE. INSTALLING ENERGY EFFICIENT UPGRADES AND RETROFITS IN
PUBLIC AND PRIVATE BUILDINGS INCLUDING SCHOOLS AND PUBLIC HOUSING,
UPGRADING PARTS OF THE ELECTRICAL GRID TO INCREASE STABILITY AND
RESILIENCE, INCLUDING SUPPORTING THE CREATION OF SELF-SUFFICIENT CLEAN
ENERGY MICRO GRIDS, AND A BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS. AND IT ALSO MANDATES
THAT AT LEAST 35 PERCENT OF THE FUNDS THAT COME IN FOR THIS WILL BE
FOCUSED ON COMMUNITIES OF HIGH NEEDS, POORER COMMUNITIES
ECONOMICALLY, COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN TYPICALLY ADVERSELY
IMPACTED IN A DISPROPORTIONATE WAY DUE TO CLIMATE CHANGE.
SO THE -- IT'LL ALSO DETERMINE, AS I THINK I MENTIONED,
THE PROPORTION OF LIABILITY OF THE RESPONSIBLE PARTIES. SO IF -- IF THERE'S
A COMPANY THAT -- LET'S SAY IT'S DETERMINED THAT THEY'RE 5 PERCENT LIABLE
OR RESPONSIBLE FOR THE POLLUTION THAT WAS CAUSED, 5 PERCENT OF $3 BILLION
IS I GUESS $15 MILLION WHICH, OF COURSE, IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET TO THESE
COMPANIES BECAUSE I'M SURE YOU KNOW THAT MANY OF THE OIL COMPANIES
HAVE HAD RECORD STAGGERING PROFITS IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, AND AT THE
VERY TOP OF THE LIST IS SAUDI ARAMCO, BUT ALSO EXXON MOBIL, SHELL, BP,
CHEVRON, AND A WHOLE HOST OF OTHER COMPANIES, AND THERE ARE ABOUT 35
TO 40 SUCH COMPANIES WHICH WOULD HAVE TO PARTICIPATE IN KICKING IN TO
-- TO THIS FUND TO HELP FIX THE DAMAGE WHICH THEY THEMSELVES CAUSED,
KNEW ABOUT, IN SOME CASES WERE MAYBE LESS THAN TRUTHFUL ABOUT,
DENIED IT, AND -- AND HERE WE ARE TODAY AND I KNOW WE ALL KNOW WHAT'S
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GOING ON AND ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT, WELL, YOU JUST REALLY
HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION.
SO WE'RE REALLY IN A BIG PROBLEM NOW, AND THIS IS ONE
WAY TO HELP ADDRESS THE SITUATION WITHOUT SOCKING IT TO THE TAXPAYERS. I
THINK THAT'S MY SHORT EXPLANATION. WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR THE LONGER
VERSION? NO? OKAY, FINE.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. SIMPSON.
MR. SIMPSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'M
ALMOST SCARED TO ASK IF I COULD ASK THE SPONSOR FOR A FEW QUESTIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. DINOWITZ,
WILL YOU YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: OF COURSE.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. SIMPSON: WELL, I WANT TO SAY BRAVO FOR
EXPLAINING THAT BILL.
(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)
MR. DINOWITZ: -- YOU WOULD ASK.
MR. SIMPSON: EXCUSE ME?
MR. DINOWITZ: IS THERE ANYTHING LEFT?
MR. SIMPSON: YEAH, THERE'S A LOT, THERE'S AN AWFUL
LOT. ALL RIGHT. SO I'M GOING TO START OFF -- I'M GOING TO REARRANGE MY
QUESTIONS BECAUSE SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID REALLY STUCK OUT TO ME. IS
THE EVIDENCE -- IS THERE EVIDENCE THAT THESE COMPANIES KNEW --
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M SORRY. SPEAK MORE LOUDLY, THE
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CAMERA SNAPPING IS ACTUALLY LOUDER THAN YOU.
MR. SIMPSON: IS THERE EVIDENCE THAT THESE
COMPANIES THAT YOU NAMED OFF, THESE 35 TO 40 COMPANIES, DO YOU HAVE
EVIDENCE THAT THEY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS, THAT THEY KNEW ABOUT IT BACK IN
1991 OR, YOU KNOW, THE SPAN OF TIME THAT THIS BILL IS COVERING,
ATTEMPTING TO RECOVER DAMAGES, IS THERE EVIDENCE THAT THEY KNEW AND
THAT THEY HID THE FACT THAT THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, BECAUSE
THESE COMPANIES WERE PERMITTED. THEY WERE REGULATED BY THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT AS WELL AS THE STATE TO DRILL, TO PROVIDE FUEL AND PRODUCTS
THAT WE ALL AS CONSUMERS CREATED THE DE -- DEMAND FOR.
MR. DINOWITZ: DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY DIDN'T
KNOW THAT THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING BAD? BUT LET ME --
MR. SIMPSON: I WAS ASKING YOU THE QUESTION.
MR. DINOWITZ: LET ME TRY -- WELL, SOMETIMES
SOME OF US ANSWER QUESTIONS WITH QUESTIONS. SO I LOOK AT THIS AS
SOMETHING SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENED WITH TOBACCO COMPANIES, AND I'M
NOT SAYING IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME BUT IN MANY WAYS IT IS. FOR SO MANY
YEARS -- I -- I STILL REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A KID, YOU KNOW, READING AND
HEARING ABOUT ALL THIS STUFF WHERE FIRST, YOU KNOW, CIGARETTES WERE
GREAT, THEY, YOU KNOW, SOME CIGARETTES WERE GEARED TOWARDS MARLBORO
TOWARDS MEN AND VIRGINIA SLIMS TOWARDS WOMEN AND IT MAKES YOU,
YOU KNOW, WHATEVER PEOPLE BUT IT WAS A GOOD THING OR IT HELPED KEEP
THEIR WEIGHT DOWN OR IT JUST WAS WONDERFUL. THEN PEOPLE STARTED TO,
YOU KNOW, AS THEY WERE DYING, THEY REALIZED THAT IT WASN'T SO GOOD BUT
TOBACCO COMPANIES KNEW ABOUT THAT. THEY KEPT THE INFORMATION
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HIDDEN, THEY LIED ABOUT IT. YES, THEY LIED ABOUT IT WHICH IS WHY THEY
CAME TO THESE SETTLEMENTS FOR HUNDREDS OF, YOU KNOW, ZILLIONS OF
DOLLARS AND IN MY OPINION, AND I THINK IT'S BEEN BORNE OUT BY THE FACTS,
MANY OF THESE COMPANIES, THEY KNEW ALL ALONG THAT THEY WERE CAUSING
DAMAGE TO THE ENVIRONMENT. THEY KEPT IT HIDDEN, THEY DENIED IT, BUT
NOW LIKE EVERYBODY KNOWS IT. AND IF -- IF YOU THINK IT'S -- THAT THERE'S
ANY QUESTION ABOUT IT, I DON'T KNOW HOW I CONVINCE YOU, I DON'T HAVE,
YOU KNOW, PROOF IN MY POCKET. BUT I THINK WE ALL KNOW -- WE ALL
KNOW THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL. VIRTUALLY EVERY SCIENTIST BELIEVES
THAT AND I TEND TO TRUST SCIENTISTS OVER, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, YOUTUBE
VIDEOS AND STUFF AND IT'S A FACT. IT'S A FACT. AND WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE
IS WE'RE DESIGNATING CERTAIN ORGANIZATIONS, COMPANIES AS RESPONSIBLE
PARTIES AND THOSE ARE THE COMPANIES WHOSE PRODUCTS ARE RESPONSIBLE
FOR THE EMISSION OF MORE THAN ONE BILLION TONS OF WHAT'S CALLED GHCS,
I'M SORRY, GHGS IN THE COVERED PERIOD. THE COVERED PERIOD RUNS FROM
JANUARY 1ST, 2000 UNTIL DECEMBER 1ST OF 2018, AND THEY'RE ABLE TO
QUANTIFY THE AMOUNT OF POLLUTION THAT THEY CAUSE. AND IT'S QUANTIFIABLE
BASED UPON RECORDS THAT EXIST, UPON THE COMPANIES' OWN RECORDS AND SO
THAT'S HOW THEY CAN FIGURE OUT THESE NUMBERS AND A PROPORTIONATE SHARE
THAT EACH COMPANY WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR, AND -- AND THAT'S HOW
THEY DETERMINE HOW MUCH TO ASSESS EACH COMPANY.
MR. SIMPSON: AND WHO IS "THEY" AGAIN?
MR. DINOWITZ: THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
CONSERVATION.
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. SO THAT LEADS ME TO ANOTHER
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QUESTION. THE FIRST VERSION OF THIS BILL THAT WAS PRESENTED I THINK IN
2022 ESTIMATED THEY USED A NUMBER OF 30 BILLION AS A TOTAL WHERE THIS
BILL IS AT 75 BILLION.
MR. DINOWITZ: THAT'S CORRECT.
MR. SIMPSON: SO THE DEC ALL OF A SUDDEN RE -- GO
BACK AND RE --
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. THE DEC DIDN'T COME UP
WITH THOSE NUMBERS AT ALL. THE DEC -- THE DEC IS NOT IN THIS YET. WE
HAVEN'T PASSED THIS, IT HASN'T BEEN SIGNED INTO LAW. THE ORIGINAL BILL
WAS TALKING ABOUT $30 BILLION PER YEAR BUT IT ONLY LOOKED AT -- FOR TEN
YEARS. WHAT THIS DOES IT'S -- IT'S -- I'M SORRY, $3 BILLION A YEAR FOR TEN
YEARS, WHICH IS $30 BILLION. THIS WOULD BE $3 BILLION PER YEAR BUT OVER
25 YEARS, SO 3 TIMES 25 BEING 75.
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. HOW DID YOU -- YOU
MENTIONED THE DAMAGES IN YOUR EXPLANATION OF THE BILL. YOU TALKED
ABOUT MANY, MANY PERCEIVED DAMAGES, ESPECIALLY IN YOUR DISTRICT OR
DOWN IN --
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, NOT ESPECIALLY IN MY DISTRICT.
MR. SIMPSON: AROUND --
MR. DINOWITZ: I MEAN IT'S ALL OVER THE PLACE.
MR. SIMPSON: WELL, I MEAN DOWNSTATE. I MEANT,
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I LIVE IN THE ADIRONDACKS AND I'M GLAD I
LIVE IN A HIGHER ELEVATION FROM LISTENING TO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN, YOU
KNOW, NEW YORK CITY. BUT MY QUESTION IS --
MR. DINOWITZ: BUT THE DAMAGE -- I'M SORRY TO
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INTERRUPT. THE DAMAGE IS EVERYWHERE. EXTREME WEATHER CAUSES
DAMAGE. WE HAD A SNOWSTORM IN BUFFALO JUST A YEAR OR TWO AGO WHERE
MANY PEOPLE DIED, AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY SNOWSTORM. WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT CLIMATE
CHANGE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE SEVERE WEATHER CONDITIONS TO HAPPEN
MORE OFTEN AND MORE FREQUENTLY AND MORE SEVERELY, I SHOULD SAY. SO A
STORM THAT MIGHT HAVE PRODUCED A FOOT OF SNOW, MIGHT END UP
PRODUCING, YOU KNOW, THREE FEET OF SNOW. WE'VE JUST HAD MORE OF
THOSE TYPES OF WEATHER EVENTS THAT WE'VE NEVER HAD HAPPEN IN OUR
LIFETIME AND IN FACT HAVE NEVER HAPPENED SINCE THEY'VE BEEN KEEPING
RECORDS GOING BACK INTO THE 19TH CENTURY, AND PEOPLE ARE DYING AND
THEY'RE NOT JUST CONSTITUENTS IN NEW YORK CITY OR LONG ISLAND, IT'S ALL
OVER THE PLACE.
MR. SIMPSON: SO HOW DID THE SPONSOR, YOU, ARRIVE
AT THE DAMAGES ASSESSED BY THIS BILL AND HOW WILL THE DAMAGES BE
ATTRIBUTED?
MR. DINOWITZ: HOW --
MR. SIMPSON: CAN YOU EXPLAIN? BECAUSE YOU'VE
GOT TO HAVE DAMAGES TO CREATE A BILL LIKE THIS, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE AN
ESTIMATE OF DAMAGES.
MR. DINOWITZ: WHAT -- WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT
HELPS PAY FOR PAST DAMAGES CAUSED BY THE EFFECTS OF WHAT THESE
CORPORATIONS HAVE DONE. SO THIS IS -- THIS IS HELPING TO PAY -- AND THIS
HAS BEEN SAID A MILLION TIMES DURING THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS BILL. IF
YOU MAKE A MESS YOU GOT TO CLEAN IT UP. IN THIS CASE WE'RE NOT ASKING
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THEM TO CLEAN IT UP. WE'RE ASKING THEM TO HELP A LITTLE BIT TO CLEAN IT UP
AND THAT -- THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY COMES IN. AND $3 BILLION SPREAD
OUT OVER ALL THESE COMPANIES, IT'S REALLY NOT THAT MUCH, RELATIVELY
SPEAKING.
MR. SIMPSON: ALL RIGHT, GOING FURTHER. CAN YOU
EXPLAIN THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE INFRASTRUCTURE COST, WHICH YOU'VE
CITED, THE DAMAGES, AND THE HARM CAUSED BY EACH SUPPOSEDLY LIABLE
PARTY TO THE STATE?
MR. DINOWITZ: EACH OF THE PARTIES DID NOT
NECESSARILY SPECIFICALLY CAUSE A SPECIFIC PIECE OF DAMAGE, YOU KNOW.
THE -- THE -- THE ONE COMPANY DIDN'T CAUSE THE SEVERE FLOODING WHICH
HAS TAKEN PLACE IN MANY PLACES. WHAT THIS IS IS THAT THESE COMPANIES
THAT -- THAT SURPASSED THE THRESHOLD, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER OF MORE THAN
ONE BILLION TONS OF GHDS DURING THE TIME PERIOD THAT I HAD MENTIONED,
COLLECTIVELY CAUSED -- HELP CAUSED SO MUCH DAMAGE AND CONTRIBUTE TO
THE CHANGE IN THE CLIMATE THAT THEY NEED TO HELP ADDRESS THE ISSUES THAT
THEY CAUSED. YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT TRYING TO PROTECT THE
ISLAND OF MANHATTAN FROM BEING, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY SWALLOWED UP,
BUT IT'S NOT JUST THAT, THAT'S WHY I CITED THE -- THE STORM IN BUFFALO AS AN
EXAMPLE OF AN EXTREME WEATHER EVENT. BUT THOSE TYPES OF THINGS HAVE
HAPPENED ALL OVER THE PLACE. I -- I CITED THE -- THE SEVERE STORM THAT
TOOK PLACE IN -- IN ASSEMBLYMEMBER EACHUS'S DISTRICT JUST A COUPLE OF
YEARS AGO. I MEAN THIS -- THIS IS JUST HAPPENING ALL THE TIME. NONE OF
US HAVE EVER LIVED THROUGH SOMETHING LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT'S NEVER
HAPPENED BEFORE.
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MR. SIMPSON: SO WHO REGULATES THEN THE GHD
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS? IS IT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR IS IT THE
STATE?
MR. DINOWITZ: WE'RE -- WE'RE -- WE'RE NOT TALKING
ABOUT WHO REGULATES IT HERE, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE BILL DOES. WHAT THE BILL
DOES IS IT -- IT INDICATES A QUANTIFIABLE WAY TO DETERMINE HOW MUCH OF
THE -- I'LL -- I'LL SAY OF THE BLAME EACH OF THESE COMPANIES IS RESPONSIBLE
FOR AND THEREFORE SHOULD PAY IN -- IN THE ASSESSMENT THAT WOULD BE
LEVIED ON THEM.
MR. SIMPSON: SO THE REASON WHY I ASK THAT
QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL -- EXISTING FEDERAL LAW LIKE THE
CLEAN AIR ACT PREEMPTS STATE REGULATION OF GHG EMISSIONS. SO IS THAT
--
MR. DINOWITZ: WE'RE NOT REGULATING -- THAT'S NOT
WHAT THIS BILL DOES.
MR. SIMPSON: NO, BUT THERE'S A RESPONSIBILITY IN
WHO PERMITTED, WHO ALLOWED, WHO SET THE STANDARDS.
MR. DINOWITZ: WE'RE NOT TALKING -- WE'RE NOT
TALKING ABOUT THAT. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS QUANTIFYING HOW MUCH
OF THOSE GHGS HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY, YOU KNOW, HAVE BEEN ADMITTED
BY EACH OF THESE COMPANIES, AND IT'S -- THE FORMULAS FOR CALCULATING THE
EMISSIONS IS BASED ON PRODUCTION OF -- OF -- THERE'S RECORDS, THERE'S
RECORDS OF -- OF THAT. I ASSUME THEY ALL KEEP THEIR RECORDS PROPERLY,
BECAUSE I KNOW THEY WOULD NEVER LIE. BUT THEY CAN BE ACCURATELY
MEASURED BASED ON PUBLICALLY-AVAILABLE PRODUCTION RECORDS. THEY
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EXIST. NOW I WOULDN'T KNOW HOW DO IT BECAUSE I'M NOT THE EXPERT ON
THIS, BUT THE RECORDS EXIST AND YOU CAN FIGURE THIS OUT, AND IT'S PROBABLY
NOT THAT HARD.
MR. SIMPSON: WELL I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY BUT I KNOW
ENOUGH THAT THERE HAS TO BE RESPONSIBILITY, BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOME
KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT -- WHETHER IT'S 100 MILLION TONS OF GHG GASSES
OR WHETHER IT'S 200 MILLION TONS OF GHG GASSES IS -- IS -- I'M TRYING TO
THINK -- IS THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO A
COMPANY AND SAY YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, YOU CREATED THIS DISASTER
AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT.
YOU KNOW, THIS BILL IS PUTTING RESPONSIBILITY FOR
SOMETHING ON A NUMBER OF COMPANIES, A LOT OF MONEY. MAYBE SMALL IN
THE SCHEME OF ADDING UP ALL THE TOTAL BUSINESS THAT THEY ALL DO,
ESPECIALLY AND THAT'S JUST IN, YOU KNOW, THE IMPACTS TO NEW YORK STATE.
SO THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME KIND OF NEXUS, SOME KIND OF CONNECTION,
SOMETHING THAT CAN BE PROVEN BECAUSE I WOULD ASSUME THERE'S GOING TO
BE CHALLENGE AND PUSHBACK.
MR. DINOWITZ: I -- I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THIS LAW,
ONCE IT'S PASSED AND HOPEFULLY SIGNED, WILL BE CHALLENGED AND I ALSO
HAVE NO DOUBT THAT IT WILL WITHSTAND ANY LEGAL CHALLENGE, BECAUSE
WE'VE BEEN ADVISED BY NUMEROUS LEGAL AUTHORITIES PRESUMABLY
DEFENDED BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, BUT YOU HAVE TO I THINK, LOOK AT IT
FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE PEOPLE THAT EACH OF US REPRESENT. TO ME
THERE'S A BINARY CHOICE HERE. EITHER OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE GOING TO PAY
FOR 100 PERCENT OF THE COST CAUSED BY THESE COMPANIES OR THE
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COMPANIES ARE GOING TO HELP PAY FOR PART OF THE COST. I'M NOT EVEN
SAYING PAY FOR ALL OF IT BECAUSE THEY MAYBE NOT BE ABLE TO, BUT PAY FOR
PART OF IT. HELP PAY TO -- TO RECTIFY THE DAMAGE THAT THEY CAUSED, AND I
THINK IF YOU ASK ANY OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS, IF YOU ASK THEM AN EVEN -- AN
EVEN-PANNED QUESTION, WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD PAY FOR THE POLLUTION
AND THE DAMAGES CAUSED BY THE OIL COMPANIES? YOU, THE TAXPAYER?
YOU, THE PROPERTY OWNER, OR MAYBE THE OIL COMPANIES? AND I'M PRETTY
SURE THAT ALMOST ALL OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS WOULD SAY THAT THE OIL
COMPANIES SHOULD PAY FOR PART OF THE COST, BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T, THESE
COSTS ARE STILL GOING TO EXIST, AND HOW DOES A MUNICIPALITY, HOW DOES A
TOWN PAY FOR ALL THESE THINGS. THE WAY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO PAY FOR IT
THEY'RE GOING TO RAISE PROPERTY TAXES, AND I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WANT
TO SEE PROPERTY TAXES RAISED OR ANY OTHER TAXES. SO IF YOU WANT TAXES
NOT TO GO UP, VOTE YES ON THIS BILL. BUT IF YOU ARE OKAY WITH PROPERTY
TAXES GOING UP, VOTE NO.
MR. SIMPSON: ARE THERE OTHER STATES THAT ARE
CONSIDERING LEGISLATION LIKE THIS?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I'D LIKE TO THINK WE ARE THE
TRAILBLAZER AND NUMBER ONE, BUT IN FACT, WE'RE GOING TO BE NUMBER TWO,
BECAUSE ANOTHER STATE HAS RECENTLY PASSED THIS VERY SAME LAW AND THAT
IS THE STATE OF VERMONT.
MR. SIMPSON: HAS IT BEEN SIGNED INTO LAW YET?
MR. DINOWITZ: I BELIEVE IT BECAME LAW WITHOUT --
I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNOR SIGNED IT, BUT I THINK THE WAY IT WORKS THERE
IT BECAME A LAW WITHOUT A SIGNATURE OR HER -- I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S A HE OR
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SHE.
MR. SIMPSON: ALL RIGHT. SO DO YOU THINK THIS LAW
WILL STAND TO A CONSTITUTIONAL CHALLENGE?
MR. DINOWITZ: NOT ONLY DO I THINK IT'LL WITHSTAND
THE CONSTITUTIONAL CHALLENGE, I'M CERTAIN IT WILL. BUT NOT BEING A JUDGE
- ALTHOUGH I'M AN ATTORNEY, BUT NOT BEING A JUDGE, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.
BUT I -- I BELIEVE IT WILL BASED ON EVERYTHING I'VE READ, BASED ON ALL THE
INFORMATION I'VE BEEN GIVEN AND LEARNED ABOUT THIS, I -- I DO BELIEVE
THAT.
MR. SIMPSON: ALL RIGHT. IN -- IN THE LEGISLATION IT
USES THE TERMS BEST AVAILABLE SCIENCE TO IDENTIFY HIGH-EMITTING ENTITIES
AND APPORTIONED LIABILITY AMONG THEM. CAN YOU DEFINE WHAT BEST
AVAILABLE SCIENCE IS, WHERE -- WHERE IT'S GOING TO COME FROM? I MEAN
WHERE.
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M NOT SURE I CAN DEFINE IT, BUT I'M
PRETTY SURE I'D RATHER HAVE THE BEST AVAILABLE SCIENCE AS OPPOSED TO THE
NOT SO GOOD AVAILABLE SCIENCE.
MR. SIMPSON: SO IS THAT GOING TO COME FROM
DEC?
MR. DINOWITZ: DEC WOULD BE THE -- THE LEAD
AGENCY IN DEALING WITH THIS. THERE MIGHT BE OTHER AGENCIES INVOLVED
BUT DEC WOULD BE THE LEAD AGENCY.
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. SO THERE WAS ACTUALLY AN
ARTICLE IN POLITICO WHERE, YOU KNOW, A MEMBER HERE WAS COMMENTING
ON THIS BILL AND, YOU KNOW, THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE, YOU KNOW,
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PROMPTED A QUESTION PERTAINING TO HOW -- HAVE WE DONE ANYTHING TO
EVALUATE, DO AN ANALYSIS AND HOW THIS IS GOING TO IMPACT THE STATE AND
ALL THE CONSTITUENTS IN NEW YORK STATE, ALL OF OUR RESIDENTS? HAS -- HAS
THERE BEEN AN ANALYSIS --
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. SIMPSON,
YOUR TIME HAS EXPIRED. YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THE SECOND 15? OKAY.
GO AHEAD.
MR. DINOWITZ: HAVE WE -- I'M SORRY?
MR. SIMPSON: HAVE WE DONE AN ANALYSIS OF HOW --
AN ANALYSIS OF THE POTENTIAL IMPACT TO PEOPLE OF NEW YORK, WHETHER IT'S
GOING TO RESULT IN HIGHER COSTS, IF THIS IS JUST GOING TO BE PASSED ONTO
CONSUMERS, SHOULD NEW YORK STATE BE SUCCESSFUL IN ATTAINING THESE
FUNDS.
MR. DINOWITZ: IF THE BILL TAKES EFFECT, OR SHOULD I
SAY WHEN IT TAKES EFFECT --
MR. SIMPSON: POSITIVE THINKING.
MR. DINOWITZ: -- WE WILL HAVE $3 BILLION A YEAR TO
HELP ADDRESS THE VERY PROBLEMS CAUSED BY THESE COMPANIES AND THAT
WOULD INCLUDE MANY OF THE THINGS THAT I READ A LITTLE EARLIER, THE LIST OF
POTENTIAL THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE WITH THAT MONEY TO HELP ADDRESS THE
CLIMATE CHANGE ISSUES WHICH HAVE UNFORTUNATELY ACCELERATED EVERY
YEAR.
MR. SIMPSON: DO WE THINK THAT THAT COST IS GOING
TO BE PASSED DOWN TO NEW YORKERS THAT ARE STILL DRIVING GAS CARS, STILL
HEATING THEIR HOMES WITH FOSSIL FUELS, STILL BUYING PROPANE?
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MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, THE COST HAVE ALREADY BEEN
PASSED DOWN BECAUSE THE COST TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES - AND I MENTIONED
SOME OF THEM EARLIER - HAVE TO BE PAID AND ARE BEING PAID RIGHT NOW.
SO THE QUESTION ISN'T WHETHER THE COST IS GOING TO BE PASSED DOWN
BECAUSE WE'RE PAYING THE COST NOW. I THINK THE REAL QUESTION IS WILL
THIS HELP MAKE SURE THAT AT LEAST SOME OF THE COSTS ARE NOT PUT ONTO THE
-- ALL OF US, BUT RATHER AT LEAST SOME OF IT ONTO THE COMPANIES.
MR. SIMPSON: MAYBE I SHOULD'VE --
MR. DINOWITZ: SO IT SEEMS TO ME WE WOULD BE
BETTER OFF HAVING $3 BILLION EXTRA TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE.
MR. SIMPSON: MAYBE I SHOULD'VE SAID ADDITIONAL
COSTS. IN THE END ARE WE GOING TO BE PAYING THE $3 BILLION MORE IN
HIGHER COSTS OF ENERGY FROM THESE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THE
$3 BILLION A YEAR FROM?
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T SEE WHY THAT WOULD HAPPEN
BECAUSE THERE -- THERE ARE MANY COMPANIES THAT WOULD BE ASSESSED THIS
FEE AND OTHERS THAT WON'T. AND IF A COMPANY WANTS TO RAISE THEIR PRICES
AT THE PUMP, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT THE GAS STATION ACROSS THE STREET THAT'S NOT
BEING -- THAT THE COMPANY WHICH IS NOT BEING ASSESSED THE FEE, I MEAN
THE LAWS -- I MEAN I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I STILL BELIEVE IN
CAPITALISM AND COMPETITION. AND IF ONE COMPANY IS -- WANTS TO RAISE
ITS PRICE BUT THE OTHER ONE ISN'T, WELL, GUESS WHAT? THEY'RE NOT GOING TO
RAISE THEIR PRICE. BUT BEYOND THAT, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE PRICE AT THE
PUMP WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT PRICES THAT ARE SET NOT BY, YOU KNOW, IN
A PARTICULAR TOWN OR A NEIGHBORHOOD OR WHATEVER. IT'S SET MORE
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GLOBALLY THAN THAT BECAUSE THAT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS ARE. AND THERE'S
NO REASON TO THINK THAT THOSE COSTS COULD BE PASSED ON, BUT LET'S SAY
THEY WERE PASSED ON. LET'S JUST SAY FOR A MINUTE THEY WERE, EVEN
THOUGH THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE, SO WHAT THEN? THEN WE'LL BE NO WORSE
OFF THAN WE ARE NOW. WE'LL BE PAYING FOR THE WHOLE THING, BUT RIGHT
NOW ALL OF US ARE PAYING FOR THE ENTIRE COST OF DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE
AND THEY'RE PAYING NOTHING. THEY'RE GETTING AWAY SCOT -- WHEN I SAY
"THEY", THE OIL COMPANY. THEY'RE GETTING SCOT FREE AND I HAVE NOTHING
PERSONAL AGAINST THE OIL COMPANIES BUT THEY SHOULD JUST, YOU KNOW,
KIND OF KICK IN A LITTLE BIT AND HELP US SOLVE THE PROBLEM THAT THEY
CAUSED.
MR. SIMPSON: SO I AGREE WITH YOU. I BELIEVE IN
CAPITALISM AS WELL, AND I ALSO KNOW THAT IF YOU DISADVANTAGE ONE
COMPANY OVER ANOTHER, WHICH YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ONE MAY
BE HELD TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE PAYING THESE FEES
TO NEW YORK STATE OR THESE PENALTIES TO -- TO NEW YORK STATE, THAT
THEY'RE GOING TO BE FORCED BY COMPETITION TO KEEP THEIR PRICES AT THE
SAME LEVEL. DO YOU THINK THIS WILL FORCE ANY OF THESE COMPANIES TO GO
OUT OF BUSINESS?
MR. DINOWITZ: LET'S JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE RECORD
HERE. SAUDI ARAMCO -- WELL, ACTUALLY I'M LOOKING AT THE RECORD OF HOW
MUCH THEY'VE BEEN ASSESSED. IN THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS, THE -- THE
LEADING OIL COMPANIES COLLECTIVELY HAVE HAD PROFITS IN THE HUNDREDS OF
BILLIONS. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT GROSS REVENUE, I'M TALKING ABOUT PROFITS,
THEY'RE LOADED. SO THE -- THE RELATIVELY SMALL AMOUNT THAT THEY ARE
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GOING TO BE CHARGED BASED ON THIS IS NOT GOING TO EFFECT, IT'S MORE OF A
ROUNDING ERA BASED ON THOSE STAGGERING NUMBERS OF THE AMOUNTS OF
MONEY THAT THEY'RE TAKING IN. SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE FORCING, YOU KNOW,
EXXON OUT OF BUSINESS IF THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY SOME MONEY IN
NEW YORK STATE.
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. AND DEFINING RESPONSIBLE
PARTY. THE BILL NOTES, SHALL NOT INCLUDE ANY PERSON WHO LACKS SUFFICIENT
CONNECTION WITH THE STATE TO SATISFY THE NEXUS REQUIREMENTS OF THE
UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION. THIS LANGUAGE SUGGESTS THAT THE BILL
POTENTIALLY EXEMPTS FOREIGN COMPANIES.
MR. DINOWITZ: NOT AT ALL.
MR. SIMPSON: NO? OKAY.
MR. DINOWITZ: NOT AT ALL. SAUDI ARAMCO, BEING
THE NUMBER ONE COMPANY WITH THE GREATEST PROFIT, DOES HAVE A NEXUS
HERE IN NEW YORK.
MR. SIMPSON: SO YOU DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO
HAVE A LARGER IMPACT ON OUR DOMESTIC PRODUCERS?
MR. DINOWITZ: I THINK IT'LL HAVE A LARGER IMPACT ON
-- ON THOSE PRODUCERS THAT HAVE CAUSED THE MOST DAMAGE, SOME MAY BE
DOMESTIC, SOME MAY BE FOREIGN.
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. DO YOU THINK THAT ANY OF
THESE FEES OR COSTS, THESE PENALTIES BEING ASSESSED TO THESE COMPANIES
IS GOING TO HAVE ANY EFFECT ON THE INDUSTRY AND THEIR ABILITY TO INVEST IN
ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES TO TRY TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE, THE EFFECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, THESE COMPANIES HAVE
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PLENTY OF MONEY. HOW THEY CHOOSE TO ALLOCATE IT, I MEAN THEY CAN
CHOOSE TO INVEST SOME OF IT TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGY. ALTHOUGH
I STILL REMEMBER THE GAS LINES FROM, YOU KNOW, JIMMY CARTER OR I
FORGET WHAT YEAR -- THE '70S WHEN WE -- WHEN WE ALL TALKED ABOUT OH,
THEY'RE ALL GONNA -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO DEVELOP SOLAR ENERGY.
WELL, THESE ARE THE VERY COMPANIES THAT PREVENTED SOLAR ENERGY FROM
THE BILL TO THE EXTENT THAT IT COULD'VE BEEN DEVELOPED, SO THEY -- THEY'VE
NEVER SHOWN A -- A TREMENDOUS INTEREST IN THESE TECHNOLOGIES. THEY --
IN FACT, IN MANY WAYS THEY'VE SUPPRESSED IT, BUT THEY HAVE A LOT OF
MONEY AVAILABLE. SO MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LESS
MONEY MIGHT GO TO, YOU KNOW, FOR -- FOR DIVIDENDS, AND THEY CAN PUT
THE MONEY WHERE IT SHOULD GO.
MR. SIMPSON: ALL RIGHT. IF THIS IS HELD UP IN
COURTS, WHICH I ASSUME I THINK YOU WOULD AGREE THERE'S PROBABLY GOING
TO BE A LOT OF PUSHBACK AND LEGAL FIGHTS AND THERE'S PROBABLY A QUESTION
OF WHETHER WE WERE PREPARED FOR THAT OR PLANNED FOR HOW MUCH THAT
COULD COST.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, THERE'S -- THERE'S ALWAYS
PUSHBACK. ANYTHING LIKE THIS ALWAYS INVOLVES PUSHBACK. ANYTHING
WORTH FIGHTING FOR YOU HAVE TO FIGHT.
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. WELL, I JUST -- I MEAN WE'RE
TALKING $75 BILLION, THERE'S -- THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF MONEY BEHIND
FROM THOSE COMPANIES. YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY THEY'RE
MAKING. I'M SURE THEY'RE NOT JUST GOING TO ROLL OVER FOR NEW YORK
STATE.
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MR. DINOWITZ: NO. AND THE TOBACCO COMPANIES
DIDN'T ROLL OVER EITHER, AND THE PHARMACEUTICALS -- PHARMACEUTICALS
DIDN'T ROLL OVER. YET, THEY HAD TO PAY FOR SOME OF THE DAMAGE THEY
CAUSED. AND BY THE WAY, I'M LOOKING AT MY NOTES, SAUDI ARAMCO HAD
A NET INCOME OF OVER $161 BILLION IN 2022, AND LAST YEAR IT WAS OVER
121-, NO SMALL CHANGE THERE. THAT'S A -- THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY. THESE
ARE NOT COMPANIES THAT ARE WITHERING AWAY OR, YOU KNOW, HAVE LACK OF
PROFITS. THEY'RE LOADED WITH SO MUCH MONEY THEY COULD HELP A LITTLE
BIT. I'M JUST ASKING THEM TO HELP A LITTLE BIT.
MR. SIMPSON: SO YOU -- YOU DID MENTION VERMONT
HAS PASSED THE LEGISLATION, BUT THERE ARE OTHER STATES THAT ARE LOOKING AT
IT. AND, FOR EXAMPLE, MARYLAND, THEIR LEGISLATIVE SERVICES DID AN
ANALYSIS AND NOTED THE POTENTIAL FOR SIGNIFICANT DELAYS AND COSTS THAT
COULD EXCEED 2.2 MILLION ANNUALLY WITH ADDITIONAL UPFRONT COST. HAVE
WE DONE AN ANALYSIS TO SEE WHAT THIS IS GOING TO COST FROM STARTING
GOING BACK RETROACTIVELY AND MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS?
MR. DINOWITZ: COST TO WHOM?
MR. SIMPSON: THE COST OF THIS BILL.
THIS LEGISLATION--
MR. DINOWITZ: THE COST TO THE STATE OF NEW YORK
OR THE COST TO THE COMPANIES? I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
MR. SIMPSON: WELL, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE UPFRONT
COST BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE FROM DAY ONE, RIGHT? THERE'S GOING TO
BE LEGAL COSTS. THERE'S GOING TO BE SCIENCE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE
IDENTIFIED THAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED TO -- TO ASSESS THE RESPONSIBILITY.
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WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND MONEY.
MR. DINOWITZ: PERHAPS.
MR. SIMPSON: WELL, IT ISN'T GOING TO BE FREE; WOULD
YOU AGREE?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S NOT GOING TO BE $3 BILLION. THE
$3 BILLION IN REVENUE THAT THE -- THAT THE STATE WOULD GET TO -- TO DO
THESE VERY IMPORTANT NECESSARY WORTHWHILE THINGS, IT'S -- IT'S GOING TO
DO A LOT OF GOOD, I THINK AND HELP. AND -- AND IT'S JUST, AS I SAID, I'LL
KEEP SAYING IT, IT'S JUST -- IT'S JUST A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF WHAT'S GOING TO
HAVE TO BE DONE. I MEAN UNFORTUNATELY I WISH THAT WEREN'T THE CASE.
BUT RIGHT NOW THERE ARE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN NEW YORK STATE THAT ARE
PROBABLY SPENDING HALF OF THEIR BUDGET ON DEALING WITH THIS MESS.
THEY'RE SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS
HIGHER PROPERTY TAXES. IT MEANS HIGHER OTHER KINDS OF TAXES, AND WE --
WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT BECAUSE THOSE PERCENTAGES ARE GOING TO KEEP
INCREASING. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO DOWN IF WE JUST -- IF WE DO
NOTHING.
NOW THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE BEING DONE. WE'VE
PASSED VARIOUS LEGISLATION IN RECENT YEARS TO, YOU KNOW, TO DEAL WITH
THINGS GOING FORWARD, BUT WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT LOOKS BACK OVER THE
PAST ALMOST 20 YEARS AND IT DETERMINES, IT COMES UP WITH AN ACTUAL
DOLLAR FIGURE THAT EACH COMPANY WOULD HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE. AND I DON'T
THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD FIND THAT UNREASONABLE AT ALL WHETHER THEY'RE
-- NO MATTER WHAT THEIR POLITICAL AFFILIATION IS, I THINK MOST PEOPLE
WOULD FIND THAT VERY REASONABLE.
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MR. SIMPSON: SO IF WE'RE SUCCESSFUL WITH THIS, IS
THERE A POSSIBILITY THAT NEW YORK STATE IS GOING TO GO BEYOND THE
PERIOD THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW ON RECOVERING DAMAGES?
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T THINK THAT'S
NECESSARY. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. WE'RE LOOKING AT A PARTICULAR PERIOD
WHICH WOULD HELP US ASSESS A PERCENTAGE OF BLAME. AND LOOKING AT A
LONGER PERIOD PROBABLY WON'T CHANGE THAT, BUT MAYBE WHAT YOU'RE
ASKING IS ARE WE GOING TO GO BEYOND THE $3 BILLION. I'M NOT SURE IF
THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING.
MR. SIMPSON: OR -- OR EVEN PRIOR TO THE BEGINNING
OF THIS PERIOD.
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S RELEVANT. I
DON'T KNOW THAT THAT MATTERS. THESE -- THESE COMPANIES HAVE BEEN
AROUND FOR A LONG TIME AND IF YOU -- IF YOU -- LET'S SAY YOU DID FACTOR IN
A FEW MORE YEARS THAT -- THERE'S NO REASON TO ASSUME THAT THOSE
PERCENTAGES, THOSE RELATIVE PERCENTAGES WOULD -- WOULD CHANGE IN A
SIGNIFICANT WAY.
MR. SIMPSON: AND GOING FORWARD, ARE YOU
REFERRING TO THE CAP-AND-INVEST PROGRAM AS HOW WE'RE DEALING WITH THE
EFFECTS OF GREENHOUSE -- GREENHOUSE GASSES EMITTED, YOU KNOW, FOSSIL --
CARS BEING OPERATED BY GAS? WE'RE STILL USING THOSE FOSSIL FUELS, STILL IN
DEMAND.
MR. DINOWITZ: WE'VE PUT IN PLACE, LIKE THE
CLCPA, WE'VE PUT IN PLACE SEVERAL LAWS MEANT TO LOWER THE
PERCENTAGE OF FOSSIL FUELS AND ALL KINDS OF OTHER BAD STUFF THAT WE USE.
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THERE ARE GOALS THAT -- THAT THE LAW HAS. THIS IS NOT THAT. YOU KNOW,
LOWERING THOSE PERCENTAGES IS -- IS THE GOAL OF -- OF SOME OF THE OTHER
LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED. WHAT THIS DOES ESSENTIALLY IS RAISE MONEY
TO HELP FIX PART OF THE PROBLEM THAT -- THAT ALREADY EXISTS. IT'S DIFFERENT.
IT'S NOT THE SAME.
MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ.
MR. DINOWITZ: YOU'RE WELCOME.
MR. SIMPSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ON THE BILL.
MS. WALSH: WELL, IT'S AN ABSOLUTE DELIGHT TO BE
DEBATING SUCH AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION AT 1:15 IN THE MORNING.
RATHER THAN ASKING QUESTIONS I THOUGHT I WOULD JUST POINT OUT SOME OF
THE THINGS THAT I'M SEEING AS I'M REVIEWING AND HAVE BEEN BRIEFED ON
THIS VERY IMPORTANT, BILL, THIS $75 BILLION OVER 20 YEAR FUND THAT'S --
THAT'S GOING TO BE CREATED. ONE OF THE POINTS THAT I NOTICED IS THAT AT
LEAST 35 PERCENT OF THE MONEY COLLECTED IS GOING TO GO TO
DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES, AND I WASN'T SURE WHETHER -- WHAT WE
MEANT BY DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES, WHETHER THAT WAS GOING TO BE
COMMUNITIES THAT ARE -- I -- I BELIEVE THAT THE SPONSOR INDICATED DURING
HIS RATHER LENGTHY EXPLANATION OF THE BILL THAT DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITIES WAS GOING TO MEAN POORER COMMUNITIES. I THINK THAT
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THERE'S AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE THAT -- THAT COMMUNITIES THAT SHOULD
RECEIVE THAT EXTRA MONEY SHOULD BE THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE MOST
DEEPLY EFFECTED BY CLIMATE CHANGE CONSEQUENCES SINCE THAT'S THE WHOLE
PURPOSE OF -- THE STATED PURPOSE OF CREATING THE FUND. I THINK THAT WHEN
YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THESE STEEP RETROACTIVE FINES THAT ARE GOING TO BE
ASSESSED AGAINST COMPANIES, THAT COULD BE DEEMED HARSH AND
OPPRESSIVE AND IN VIOLATION OF THE TAKINGS CLAUSE, ESPECIALLY SINCE
WE'RE USING A STRICT LIABILITY STANDARD. YOU KNOW, HOW -- HOW DID WE
COME UP WITH THE IDEA OF 75 BILLION, BY THE WAY? YOU KNOW, THAT
SEEMS RATHER ARBITRARY. I MEAN, EVEN THE SPONSOR AGREES THAT 75 BILLION
BARELY SCRATCHES THE SURFACE IN HIS ESTIMATION OF WHAT THIS IS GOING TO
ACTUALLY COST TO DO ALL OF THESE REPAIRS. I MEAN, NEW YORK -- NEW
YORK HAS -- BEING ON THE EAST COAST HAS VERY AGING INFRASTRUCTURE
ANYWAY. SO HOW YOU POSSIBLY SEPARATE OUT WHAT'S JUST AGING AND
WHAT'S REALLY CLIMATE IMPACTED, YOU KNOW, IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING
MOVING FORWARD. I THINK THAT THERE ARE 14TH AMENDMENT CONCERNS AND
DUE PROCESS CONCERNS. YOU KNOW, THE DETERMINATION THAT FOSSIL FUEL
COMPANIES HAVE INJURED NEW YORK STATE WITHOUT THE COMPANIES
ACTUALLY BEING HEARD ON THE MATTER OF A NEXUS OF FAULT EXISTING I THINK
REALLY CALLS INTO QUESTION DUE PROCESS ISSUES. AND THAT WILL ALL HAVE TO
BE SORTED OUT IN COURT. AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, VERMONT, AS WAS
INDICATED, WAS THE FIRST STATE THAT JUST LAST MONTH WAS NUMBER ONE AND
PASSED MIRRORED, YOU KNOW, MIRROR LEGISLATION AS THIS. AND WHEN THE
GOVERNOR DIDN'T VETO THAT BILL, HE STILL NEVERTHELESS EXPRESSED SOME REAL
CONCERN THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE HEAVILY LITIGATED, AND I HAVEN'T HEARD
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A FIGURE HERE OF WHAT THE PROJECTED COST OF LITIGATION WILL BE IN TERMS OF
TIME AND IN TERMS OF MONEY TO THE STATE. SO THAT'S A REAL CONCERN.
THERE ARE ISSUES OF FEDERAL PREEMPTION. THERE ARE
ISSUES -- THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES WITH THIS. I THINK, YOU KNOW, IS THE
FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR CLIMATE CHANGE? I DON'T
THINK SO. I DON'T KNOW -- SO I THINK THAT PICKING ON THEM SPECIFICALLY
WITH THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, I -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT REALLY
SHOULD BE THE CASE. I -- I FUNDAMENTALLY LIKE GROWING UP IN THE -- IN
THE NORTHEAST AS I DID AND GROWING UP ALONG THE HUDSON RIVER AND
SEEING WHAT'S HAPPENED WITH, YOU KNOW, GE WITH THE POLLUTION THAT
THEY PUT INTO THE RIVER AND THE CLEANUP THAT THEY HAD TO DO, I KIND OF
GREW UP WITH THOSE LAWSUITS AND THAT -- THAT WHOLE PROCESS GOING ON,
BUT IN THIS CASE, YOU KNOW, REACHING BACK TO A PERIOD OF TIME BETWEEN
THE YEAR 2000 AND 2018 AND TRYING TO QUANTIFY WHAT THESE PERMITTED
BUSINESSES WERE DOING AND THEN ASSESSING A FINE OF THIS AMOUNT OVER A
20 YEAR PERIOD OF TIME I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GOING TO BE VERY
INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS FORWARD. I -- I DO HAVE A NUMBER OF
CONCERNS ABOUT THIS LEGISLATION, BUT I'M GOING TO LEAVE A LOT OF THE OTHER
ARGUMENTS TO SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT
IT. I -- I WON'T BE SUPPORTING IT. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
MR. PALMESANO.
MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. DINOWITZ,
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WILL YOU YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ. SO
LET ME TAKE IT FROM THIS PERSPECTIVE. WE'RE DOING THIS LOOKBACK FROM
2000 TO 2018. SO WE HAVE A COMPANY THAT OPERATED UNDER FEDERAL
LAW, THAT OPERATED UNDER STATE LAW, GOT APPROVED PERMITS FROM THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, STATE GOVERNMENT, SAYING YOU WERE VALID, YOU
WERE JUSTLY OPERATING UNDER THE LEGAL GUIDELINES OF THE STATE AND THE
COUNTRY, BUT NOW WE'RE GOING BACK TO THEM, THEY GOT THESE APPROVED
PERMITS, NOW WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO THEM AND SAY, NOW YOU HAVE TO
PAY MORE MONEY, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. AND EVEN THOUGH
CUSTOMERS, BUSINESSES, RESIDENTS HAVE BENEFITTED FROM FUEL TO DRIVE,
FUEL TO OPERATE THEIR MANUFACTURING OPERATIONS, EVEN THOUGH ALL THAT,
THEY'RE GOING TO BE PAYING FOR THIS, RIGHT?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I -- I WOULD ARGUE THAT WHILE
CUSTOMERS MAY HAVE BENEFITED, ALL OF US COLLECTIVELY MAY HAVE
SUFFERED BECAUSE OF THE DAMAGE THAT THEY HAVE DONE, THAT THEIR PRODUCT
HAS DONE TO THE ENVIRONMENT, WHICH HAS CONTRIBUTED SIGNIFICANTLY
TOWARDS CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE SEVERE WEATHER CONDITIONS THAT WE'VE
EXPERIENCED IN RECENT YEARS.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. SO DOESN'T EXISTING
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FEDERAL LAW LIKE THE CLEAN AIR ACT PREEMPT THE STATE REGULATION OF
GHC EMISSIONS AND OBVIOUSLY THE FEDERAL --
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M SORRY, WOULD YOU MIND
SPEAKING A LITTLE MORE CLEARLY?
MR. PALMESANO: SURE, SURE. NO PROBLEM AT ALL.
MR. DINOWITZ: THANK YOU SO MUCH.
MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT NOW, DOESN'T EXISTING
FEDERAL LAW LIKE THE CLEAN AIR ACT PREEMPT STATE REGULATION WHEN IT
COMES TO GHC EMISSIONS, SO AREN'T WE TALKING ABOUT FEDERAL
PREEMPTION HERE?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO.
MR. PALMESANO: NO? OKAY. SO 75 BILLION, 3
BILLION OVER 25 YEARS. THE SAME GROUP THAT'S FROM A BUSINESS
ACCOUNTING THE MAJORITY OF THE GAS AND OIL SALES FROM NEW YORK. YOU
DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL BE TREATED AS A PASS-THROUGH TAX TO PEOPLE
WHO GET THEIR GAS AT THE GAS PUMP OR THEIR HOME HEATING COST? YOU
DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S GOING TO BE A PASS (INAUDIBLE) THROUGH TO CUSTOMERS
AND RATEPAYERS?
MR. DINOWITZ: ABSOLUTELY NOT.
MR. PALMESANO: HOW -- HOW -- HOW WOULD YOU
SAY -- WELL, NEVER MIND, OKAY. NOW WHEN THIS BILL WAS INTRODUCED TWO
YEARS AGO THE TOTAL WAS $35 BILLION.
MR. DINOWITZ: IT WAS 30 BILLION.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. BUT NOW TWO YEARS LATER
IT'S $75 BILLION?
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, IT'S NOT THAT THE PER YEAR
AMOUNT HAS CHANGED, IT'S THE NUMBER OF YEARS THAT THIS WILL BE IN EFFECT
FOR THAT'S CHANGED FROM THE ORIGINAL BILL TO THIS BILL.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY.
MR. DINOWITZ: SO INSTEAD OF TEN YEARS, IT'S 25
YEARS. SAME 3 BILLION, JUST MULTIPLY 30 OR 75.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. IS THERE ANY LEGAL
PRECEDENT THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF FOR RETROACTIVELY TAXING COMPANIES WHO
SOLD A PRODUCT IN THE STATE, WHICH THE RESIDENTS, WHICH THE BUSINESSES
USED THAT CAUSED AN (INAUDIBLE) INDUSTRY?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE NOT TAXING
THEM, AND I -- I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THE CHARACTERIZATION OF IT BEING A
TAX, BUT THE ANSWER IS A FEDERAL SUPERFUND.
MR. PALMESANO: SO YOU DON'T FEEL --
MR. DINOWITZ: SO THERE IS CLEARLY PRECEDENT.
MR. PALMESANO: NOW DEC AND NYSERDA IN
THEIR PUBLIC PRESENTATION SAID THAT THE CAP AND INVEST ROLE WHICH WE
PASSED LAST YEAR IS EXPECTED TO BE UP AND RUNNING AND WILL GENERATE AS
MUCH AS $12 BILLION IN GROSS RECEIPTS AND THE SUPERFUND WILL BE $3
BILLION WHICH WILL LARGELY BE IMPOSED ON THE ENERGY SECTOR. WITH THAT,
IS THERE ANY ECONOMIC IMPACT STUDY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT THAT SHOULD BE
DONE OR HAS BEEN DONE OR NO?
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M NOT SURE WITH ONE HAS TO DO
WITH THE OTHER BUT I THINK THE ECONOMIC IMPACT IS THAT IF WE CAN HELP TO
START ADDRESSING THE RAMIFICATIONS OF CLIMATE CHANGE, IT'LL HAVE A VERY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
POSITIVE ECONOMIC IMPACT ON THE STATE.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. NOW YOU SAY -- YOU
COMPARED THIS TO A SUPERFUND, BUT UNDER SUPERFUND THE LIABILITIES
APPLY USUALLY TO THE ENTITY RESPONSIBLE FOR DISCHARGING OR DISPOSING OF
HAZARDOUS CHEMISTS -- HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS INTO THE ENVIRONMENT. FOR
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS, FOR GHC, THAT WOULD MEAN THE ENTITY THAT
COMBUSTED THE FUEL. I MEAN THE CARS, THE RESIDENCES, THE BUSINESSES,
THE TRANSPORTATION, ALL OF THOSE. SO WHY WOULDN'T THAT BE SHARED WITH
THEM BUT YOU'RE USING -- YOU'RE PASSING THIS UNDER A STRICT LIABILITY,
CORRECT, AND NOT USING JOINT AND (INAUDIBLE)?
MR. DINOWITZ: THIS IS NOT AN ASSESSMENT ON THOSE
THAT HAVE USED THE PRODUCT. THIS IS AN ASSESSMENT ON THOSE ENTITIES
THAT HAVE CREATED, SOLD, KEPT -- KEPT FROM THE PUBLIC THE IMPACT OF THE
PRODUCT AND THE DAMAGE THAT IT WOULD AND DID CAUSE. SO JUST CAUSE YOU
DROVE A CAR DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME
OF THAT DAMAGE, BUT RATHER THE COMPANY THAT --
MR. PALMESANO: EVEN THOUGH THE RESIDENTS OF
THE STATE, THE BUSINESSES OF THE STATE, THE MANUFACTURERS OF THE STATE
USED A PRODUCT THAT WAS USED ACROSS THE COUNTRY, USED FOR ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT FOR GROWTH AND YOU'RE SAYING IT'S JUST WE'RE GOING TO PUT
THE SPOTLIGHT AND JUST THE ENERGY SECTOR IN AND OF ITSELF, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: LET -- LET ME ANSWER IT THIS WAY, IF
I MAY.
MR. PALMESANO: SURE.
MR. DINOWITZ: AS -- AS I SAID EARLIER, THERE IS A
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COST THAT IS GOING TO BE PAID TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE THAT THIS TERRIBLE
DISASTER, WHICH IS AWAITING US. AND THE QUESTION IS WHETHER OUR
CONSTITUENTS, THE 130- OR SO THOUSAND PEOPLE IN OUR DISTRICT SHOULD
SHOULDER THE ENTIRE COST OF THIS OR WHETHER THE OIL COMPANIES AND THE
OTHER COMPANIES RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS THAT HELP CREATE THE PROBLEM IN
THE FIRST PLACE SHOULD SHARE A SMALL PART OF THE COST, AND I VOTE FOR THEM
SHARING PART OF THE COST.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. HOPEFULLY THESE ARE YES
OR NO QUESTIONS FOR YOU. YOU ARE AWARE LAST YEAR THAT DOREEN HARRIS
AND BASIL SEGGOS WENT OUT --
MR. DINOWITZ: CAN YOU SPEAK MORE SLOWLY AND
CLEARLY, PLEASE?
MR. PALMESANO: YES. LAST YEAR AROUND BUDGET
TIME YOU ARE AWARE DOREEN HARRIS AND BASIL SEGGOS WENT OUT AND
TALKED ABOUT THE EMISSION METHODOLOGY WE USED. IF WE DID NOT CHANGE
IT TO INTERNATIONAL AND OTHER STATES TO A HUNDRED YEAR, IT WOULD INCREASE
PRICES AT THE PUMP 63 CENTS A GALLON AND INCREASE NATURAL GAS HOME
HEATING COSTS, THEY SAID THAT, THEY CAME FROM THEIR OWN NUMBERS. YOU
REMEMBER THAT, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, MAYBE --
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY.
MR. DINOWITZ: -- BUT THAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
TO DO WITH THIS.
MR. PALMESANO: I WILL RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE AND
I'LL EXPLAIN THAT WHEN I GO ON THE BILL. YOU'RE ALSO AWARE THAT LAST YEAR
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POLITICO HAD AN ARTICLE THAT THE PSC DID APPROVE FUTURE RATE INCREASES
OF $43 BILLION TO PAY FOR THE GREEN ENERGY MANDATES THAT ARE COMING
DOWN THE ROAD. ARE YOU AWARE OF THAT ARTICLE OR THAT PSC OR NO?
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH YOU
ON THAT, BUT AGAIN, NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THIS BILL.
MR. PALMESANO: OKAY, AND ONE MORE. THE
CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL, THE CONSUMER ENERGY ALLIANCE ALL DID A STUDY
SHOWING THE COST TO ELECTRIFY THEIR HOME WITH NATURAL GAS WOULD COST
ANYWHERE FROM $20- TO $50,000. THAT WAS (INAUDIBLE) STUDY -- SO YOU
MIGHT BE AWARE OF THOSE STUDIES. I KNOW -- NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH
ME BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS BILL, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO, NOTHING WHATSOEVER. BUT LET
ME JUST SAY THIS: OBVIOUSLY ANY COMPANY DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE TO
SPEND MORE MONEY OR IN THIS CASE BE ASSESSED, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THERE
ARE MANY ENTITIES, MANY COMPANIES THAT ARE SPREADING FEAR TACTICS,
SCARE TACTICS, TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT THIS IS GOING TO HURT THEM
WHEN IN FACT THEY ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN HURTING ALL OF US FOR
MANY, MANY YEARS.
MR. PALMESANO: MR. DINOWITZ, I REALLY
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
MR. DINOWITZ: AND WE SHOULD STAND UP FOR OUR
CONSTITUENTS.
MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU.
MR. DINOWITZ: THANK YOU.
MR. PALMESANO: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
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ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ON THE BILL.
MR. PALMESANO: MR. SPEAKER AND MY
COLLEAGUES, THIS LEGISLATION IN MY OPINION SHOWS REALLY HOW
COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH THE MAJORITY IS. THERE'S LEGAL AND
CONSTITUTIONAL PROBLEMS. I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY. FIRST, TO THINK WE HAD
BUSINESSES THAT WERE OPERATING UNDER LEGAL AND REGULATORY SYSTEM STATE
AND FEDERAL, INDIVIDUALS AND BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS BENEFITED FROM
THAT, OUR MANUFACTURES DID. SO BUSINESSES GO AND APPLY AND GET STATE
AND FEDERAL PERMITS, BUT THEN YEARS LATER WE'RE SAYING YOU GOT TO PAY A
-- YOU CALL IT A TAX FEE OR AN ASSESSMENT BUT IT'S STILL A TAX. THERE'S LEGAL
PROBLEMS WITH THIS. THE RETROACTIVE EX POST FACTO LAWS, TAKINGS
CLAUSE OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION WHICH PROHIBITS EXCESSIVE FINES, YOU
KNOW, $75 BILLION. DUE PROCESS CAUSE OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT. IN
FACT, THE U.S. COURT OF APPEALS 2ND CIRCUIT RECENTLY SAID THAT
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ARE A MATTER OF FEDERAL AND INTERNATIONAL
LAW AND NOT STATE LAW AND THE CITY OF NEW YORK VERSUS CHEVRON CORP.
WHERE THE CORP REJECTED STATE NUISANCE CLAIMS AND SAID THAT GLOBAL
EMISSIONS, BECAUSE THEY'RE FEDERAL, RULED DECISION (INAUDIBLE) FEDERAL.
THE COMMERCE CLAUSE TO THE UNITED STATES. WE HAD A TRUCKING
INDUSTRY THAT HAS HELPED IMPROVED SHIPPED PRODUCT FROM ONE END OF
THE COUNTRY OF THE SHIPPING INDUSTRY, BUT YET THAT'S -- THAT'S GOING TO
VIOLATE -- I BELIEVE THAT'S GOING TO BE A VIOLATION OF THE COMMERCE
CLAUSE. WE HAVE OTHER IMPLICATIONS DOWN THE ROAD. I'M NOT -- I THINK
THE THING I'M MOST -- I'M NOT SHOCKED, BUT I'M NOT SO MUCH SURPRISED IS
THAT REALLY WE CONTINUE TO SHOW -- I THINK THIS MAJORITY CONTINUES TO
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SHOW HOW OUT OF TOUCH THEY ARE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY, THE
AFFORDABILITY AND QUALITY OF LIFE CRISIS THAT'S GOING ON IN OUR
COMMUNITIES. AND TO THINK THAT A $3 BILLION ASSESSMENT YEARLY FOR 25
YEARS WILL NOT BE PASSED ON TO THE RATEPAYERS, THE CUSTOMERS, PEOPLE
WHO GO TO THE GAS PUMP AND TO SAY THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN I THINK IS
REALLY A HEAD IN THE SAND APPROACH. AND IN FACT I WANT TO QUOTE.
QUOTE, "I'VE NEVER IN MY LIFE SEEN CORPORATIONS CHOOSE RATEPAYERS OVER
STOCKHOLDER, ASKING COMPANIES TO PAY MORE, IT'S GOING TO BE OF COURSE
TAKEN OUT ON OUR RATEPAYERS." OUR SPEAKER SAID THAT AT A PRESS GAGGLE A
COUPLE WEEKS AGO WHEN THIS BILL WAS (INAUDIBLE) PUT DOWN. THEN,
ANOTHER MEMBER SAID, I DON'T THINK OF YOUR SIDE -- SAID I DON'T THINK
THERE'S ANYTHING - I QUOTE - "I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING WORTH DOING
THAT ISN'T GOING TO IMPACT CONSUMERS. TO PRETEND THIS ISN'T GOING TO
IMPACT CONSUMERS IS PRETTY QUITE NAIVE." I AGREE.
IN THE CAP-AND-INVEST PROGRAM, JUST LIKE THE
CAP-AND-INVEST PROGRAM, WE'RE NOW GOING TO TURN OVER TO THE
AUTHORITY TO AN UNELECTED REGULATORY BODY TO PUT THE IMPACT ON OUR
CONSUMERS, OUR BUSINESSES. THE CAP-AND-INVEST PROGRAM WE TALKED
ABOUT WAS $12 BILLION, THE SUPERFUND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $33 BILLION,
WHICH IS BASICALLY GETTING PAID BY THE ENERGY SECTOR AND THAT'S GOING TO
BE PASSED ON THROUGH TO OUR RATEPAYERS AND OUR BUSINESSES. SO PRICES
AT THE PUMP WILL INCREASE FOR OUR RESIDENTS, HOME HEATING COSTS WILL
INCREASE, BUT YET YOU DON'T WANT TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE VOTER TO BRING
THIS STUFF BACK UP. AND IF THE CAP-AND-INVEST IS SUCH A GREAT IDEA,
WHATEVER RECOMMENDATIONS THEY COME FORWARD, WE SHOULD TAKE FOR AN
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UP OR DOWN VOTE SO WE CAN SHOW TO OUR VOTERS THIS IS WHERE WE STAND.
SAME THING ON THIS, WHENEVER THEY COME BACK WITH THESE FEES AND
ASSESSMENTS, WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE, HOW IT'S GOING TO IMPACT PRICES AT
THE PUMP, WE SHOULD TAKE AN UP OR DOWN VOTE. I HEAR YOU OFTEN TALK
ABOUT AFFORDABILITY AND HOW COSTS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT THEN WE CONTINUE
TO SEE MORE AND MORE POLICIES LIKE THIS THAT JUST CONTINUE TO INCREASE
COST AND REALLY SHOWCASE THAT WE HAVE AN AFFORDABILITY CRISIS IN THE
STATE OF NEW YORK. WE CAN GO THROUGH THE COST -- THE (INAUDIBLE)
COST, THE $12 BILLION FOR THE CAP-AND-INVEST, $3 BILLION FOR THE CLIMATE
SUPERFUND. IF WE DO NOT CHANGE THE METHODOLOGY THAT'S BEEN
DOCUMENTED AND PROVEN BY NYSERDA'S OWN NUMBERS, IF WE DON'T
CHANGE THE METHODOLOGY FROM A 20 YEAR TO A 100 YEAR METHODOLOGY,
PRICES AT THE PUMP FOR NEW YORKERS ARE GOING TO INCREASE 63 CENTS A
GALLON AND HOME HEATING COSTS ARE GOING TO INCREASE 79 PERCENT AND THE
PSC APPROVED $43 BILLION TO FUTURE RATEPAYER INCREASES. THE STUDY
SHOWING $20- TO $50,000 TO CONVERT YOUR HOME OVER FROM GAS TO
ELECTRIC. OF COURSE, THE EV SCHOOL BUS MANDATE, $8- TO $15 BILLION IN
REPLACEMENT COSTS ABOVE REPLACING NEAR ZERO EMISSION BUSES, THE
CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, GRID IMPROVEMENTS THAT
NEED TO BE MADE AND OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR
IT. SHENENDEHOWA SCHOOL DISTRICT SAID THEY WOULD HAVE TO PAY $30
MILLION FOR A SUBSTATION, HORSEHEADS $10 MILLION. ONE THING AFTER
ANOTHER, AND WE CONTINUE TO -- I THINK WHERE IT GETS REALLY HYPOCRITICAL
TO ME IS THE -- WE'RE SAYING WE GOT TO PAY FOR THE DAMAGE, WE'RE
MAKING THE ENERGY POLICIES PAY FOR THE DAMAGE, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE
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DAMAGE WE ARE DOING AS WE EXPLORE OTHER POORER COUNTRIES TO MEET OUR
SO-CALLED GREEN ENERGY GOALS? WE TALK ABOUT DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITIES, WHAT ABOUT THOSE DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES? WE TALK
TIME AND TIME AGAIN ABOUT THE EXPLOITATION OF CHILD LABOR TO MINE FOR
COBALT. WHEN MINING FOR LITHIUM IN AFRICAN COUNTRIES, POOR COUNTRIES
IS VERY TOXIC TO THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT IT'S OKAY IF THOSE COUNTRIES ARE
BEING DAMAGED, IT'S OKAY IF PEOPLE ARE BEING HURT THERE, WELL, WHERE'S
THE SUPERFUND FOR THEM? WE JUST WANT TO PUT OUR HEADS IN THE SAND
AND SAY YOU KNOW WHAT? IF THEY'RE HELPING US MEET OUR CLEAN ENERGY
GOALS, SO BE IT. AND IT'S JUST UNFORTUNATELY -- UNFORTUNATE AND IT'S
WRONG. I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE WHEN I TALK ABOUT IT. IT IS ALL
INTERTWINED. IT'S ALL PART OF THIS. I KNOW THE SPONSOR IS SAYING IT'S NOT --
NOT PART OF THIS BILL, IT IS BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE GREEN NEW DEAL THAT
YOU CONTINUE TO ADVANCE. AND I KNOW THE ONLY THING I'LL SAY, OFTEN YOU
SAY WE DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE ENVIRONMENT. WE
NEVER SAID WE SHOULDN'T INVEST IN RENEWABLE TECHNOLOGY, WE SHOULD
AND WE ARE, BUT IT'S GOT TO BE BALANCED, IT'S GOT TO BE FEASIBLE, IT'S GOT TO
BE RELIABLE, IT'S GOT TO BE AFFORDABLE. YOUR PLAN DOESN'T DO THAT. AND
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS AS MY COLLEAGUE MR. GOODELL SAYS, 99.6
PERCENT OF GLOBAL EMISSIONS ARE HAPPENING OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK STATE.
.4 ARE ONLY HAPPENING HERE, BUT YET CHINA IS 30 PERCENT OF GLOBAL
EMISSIONS, INDIA IS 7 PERCENT, RUSSIA'S 4 PERCENT. THAT'S 41 PERCENT.
THIS BILL IS NOT GOING TO IMPACT THEM. DO WE REALLY THINK THEY'RE GOING
TO HELP US MEET THESE GOALS? NO. THEY'RE JUST LAUGHING AT US AS WE
HERE PUT IN PLACE POLICIES THAT ARE GOING DECIMATE OUR FAMILIES, OUR
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
FARMERS, OUR SCHOOLS, OUR MANUFACTURERS AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS
CONTINUE TO SEE A MAX EXODUS OF MORE OF THESE BUSINESSES AND FAMILIES
LEAVING THE STATE OF NEW YORK, OUR NATION LEADING OUTMIGRATION.
FOR THIS AND SO MANY OTHER REASONS, WHICH IF I HAD
MORE TIME I WOULD EXPLAIN, I'M VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I WOULD
URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: I'D LIKE TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT.
CAN WE HAVE WAYS AND MEANS MEET IMMEDIATELY IN THE SPEAKER'S
CONFERENCE ROOM?
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: WAYS AND
MEANS COMMITTEE MEETING IMMEDIATELY IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE
ROOM.
MR. DURSO.
MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. DINOWITZ,
WILL YOU YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ. SO
OBVIOUSLY HEARING THE DEBATE SO FAR AND TRYING TO KEEP UP. YOU SAID
THE DEC WILL BE HANDLING THE FUND, CORRECT?
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DINOWITZ: YES, I DID SAY THAT.
MR. DURSO: OKAY, AND THE TOTAL FUND YOU SAID IS
$3 BILLION PER YEAR AND THEN IT REACHES 75 BILLION AFTER HOW MANY
YEARS?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S $3 BILLION PER YEAR. IT'S NOT --
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SAVE IT UP FOR 25 YEARS. THEY'RE GOING TO
PRESUMABLY SPEND IT, BUT OVER -- OVER 25 YEARS IT'LL ADD UP TO $75
BILLION.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO THE TOTAL AMOUNT IS $75
BILLION, SO WE'RE STOPPING AT THAT POINT? SO THIS BILL ONLY GOES FOR THOSE
MANY YEARS AND THAT'S IT.
MR. DINOWITZ: THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES, YES.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO THERE'S NO PORTION OF THIS
BILL THAT SAYS BASICALLY YOU COULD RE-UP IT AND DO IT FOR ANOTHER 25 YEARS
OR BE ABLE TO LOOK INTO ANOTHER FUND SETUP, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A
COMPLETELY SEPARATE BILL, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. NOW WHO IS GOING TO BE
DECIDING ON WHICH PROJECTS GET FUNDED?
MR. DINOWITZ: MAINLY DEC.
MR. DURSO: SO NOW WILL THOSE PROJECTS, TOWNS,
MUNICIPALITIES HAVE TO APPLY FOR THAT MONEY?
MR. DINOWITZ: I BELIEVE DEC WOULD HAVE TO
WORK OUT THE MECHANISM FOR HOW THAT WOULD BE DONE.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO THERE'S NO COMMISSION
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CREATED ESSENTIALLY, CORRECT?
(PAUSE)
MR. DINOWITZ: OKAY. IT WOULD REQUIRE DEC. I'M
JUST READING THE NOTES HERE.
MR. DURSO: GO AHEAD.
MR. DINOWITZ: IN CONSULTATION WITH THE
DEPARTMENT OF STATE, EMPIRE STATE DEVELOPMENT, DEPARTMENT OF
AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS, NYSERDA, THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
SERVICE, INDEPENDENT POWER, INDEPENDENT SYSTEM OPERATOR TO ADOPT A
CLIMATE CHANGE ADAPTATION MASTER PLAN AND THAT WOULD ASSESS THE NEEDS
AND VULNERABILITIES OF VARIOUS AREAS VITAL TO THE STATE'S ECONOMY,
NORMAL FUNCTIONING AND HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF NEW YORKERS,
IDENTIFY POTENTIAL PROPOSED AND ONGOING CLIMATE CHANGE, ADAPTIVE
INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND WOULD ALSO HAVE TO
CONSULT WITH STAKEHOLDERS INCLUDING LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, BUSINESSES AND
REPRESENTATIVES OF DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES, AND IT WOULD AUTHORIZE
THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION AS WELL AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO
DO ENFORCEMENT.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO AGAIN, SO IF THERE'S A PROJECT
FOR REMEDIATION, SEWERS, WHATEVER WE WANT TO CALL IT, WHO'S MAKING
THAT FINAL DECISION? IS IT BASICALLY EVERY DEPARTMENT IN NEW YORK
STATE HAS TO HAVE A SAY IN IT OR IS IT JUST THE DEC?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL -- WANT ME TO READ IT AGAIN?
IT'S WHAT I JUST MENTIONED.
MR. DURSO: I COULDN'T HEAR YOU.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DINOWITZ: WOW. IT'S NOISY BACK THERE. IT'S
THE GROUP THAT I JUST MENTIONED.
MR. DURSO: SO IT'S ALL THOSE ENTITIES HAVE TO DECIDE
WHICH PROJECTS GET DONE WITH THIS MONEY THAT'S COMING FROM A
SUPERFUND, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: THOSE ENTITIES, THOSE AGENCIES
WOULD DEVELOP A PLAN, AND THEN THEY WOULD PUT OUT REQUEST FOR
PROPOSAL, LIKE WE DO WITH SO MANY PROJECTS.
MR. DURSO: OKAY.
MR. DINOWITZ: AND THEN IT WOULD BE EVALUATED
AND THEN DIFFERENT THINGS WOULD BE CHOSEN.
MR. DURSO: WELL, THAT'S MY QUESTION. SO IF THERE'S
A PROJECT IN MY DISTRICT OR A TOWN OR MUNICIPALITY HAS A PROJECT THAT
THEY NEED AND THEY WANT TO ESSENTIALLY APPLY FOR IT, ARE THEY APPLYING
DIRECTLY TO THE DEC OR ARE THEY APPLYING TO NEW YORK STATE OR DO THEY
HAVE TO FILL OUT 17 DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS FOR SOMEONE TO DECIDE WHICH
PROJECT GETS DONE? AND REALLY WHAT I'M ASKING IS, HOW LONG IS IT GOING
TO TAKE TO GET FUNDING TO EACH ONE OF THESE PROJECTS THAT WE SAY WE
NEED SO BADLY, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE IT COULD TAKE YEARS.
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. I DON'T THINK IT WOULD TAKE
LONG AT ALL BUT I CAN'T -- OBVIOUSLY I CAN'T GIVE YOU AN EXACT TIMELINE,
BUT THE GOAL IS TO DO THINGS QUICKLY, SMARTLY, BUT QUICKLY IN ORDER FOR IT
TO HAVE THE IMPACT THAT WE WANT IT TO HAVE.
MR. DURSO: SO WHO WOULD THEY BE APPLYING TO? I
KNOW THAT'S THE GOAL BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN PLACE. WE HAVE A
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
BILL THAT'S ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE BROKE IT DOWN, IT'S ABOUT TEN PAGES LONG
AND WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHO THEY'RE APPLYING TO.
MR. DINOWITZ: IT WOULD BE -- IT WOULD DEPEND
UPON THE SPECIFIC TYPE OF PROJECT.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. COULD YOU GIVE ME AN
EXAMPLE?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES. IF IT WAS A SEWAGE PROJECT
THEY WOULD APPLY TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.
MR. DURSO: AND THEY WOULD DECIDE -- SO THE
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION WOULD HAVE SOLE
DISCRETION ON IF THAT PROJECT GETS DONE WITH SUPERFUND MONEY.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, IT WOULD BE, AS I SAID,
THROUGH AN RFP PROCESS.
MR. DURSO: WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THERE'S --
THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S GOING TO BE IN THIS FUND.
MR. DINOWITZ: MM-HMM.
MR. DURSO: IF THAT PROJECT COSTS A BILLION DOLLARS OR
$500 MILLION, DOES THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE OR THE DEPARTMENT
OF, YOU KNOW, THE DEC OR A MYRIAD OF OTHER GROUPS THAT YOU
MENTIONED, 17 OTHER, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS THROUGHOUT THE
STATE, WHO MAKES THE DECISION? THERE'S A FINITE AMOUNT OF MONEY.
MR. DINOWITZ: THEY WOULD -- THEY WOULD.
MR. DURSO: WHO'S "THEY"?
MR. DINOWITZ: THE DEC.
MR. DURSO: SO THE DEC IS THE SOLE GROUP THAT'S
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DECIDING WHAT PROJECTS GET DONE.
MR. DINOWITZ: FOR THIS PARTICULAR TYPE OF PROJECT.
I MENTIONED IF IT WAS A SEWAGE PROJECT, IT WOULD BE DEC.
MR. DURSO: RIGHT. SO NOW WHAT IF THE DEC SAYS
YES TO THAT PROJECT, AND THEN ANOTHER GROUP SAYS YES TO THIS PROJECT,
ANOTHER GROUP SAYS -- ARE THEY GOING TO ALL BE WORKING IN CONJUNCTION
WITH EACH OTHER TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS FUND DOESN'T RUN OUT OF MONEY
BEFORE ALL THESE PROJECTS GET FUNDED?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THEY
-- THEY TALK TO EACH OTHER, THEY COME UP WITH A PLAN. SO YES, THEY
WOULD HAVE TO CONSULT WITH EACH OTHER BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TEN
DIFFERENT GROUPS PROMISING OUT $3 BILLION EACH, OBVIOUSLY.
MR. DURSO: CORRECT. OKAY. SO THEY'RE GOING TO
WORK IN CONJUNCTION WITH EACH OTHER TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MONEY IS
SPENT CORRECTLY.
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. HOW DO WE DECIDE WHICH
COMPANIES ARE MORE RESPONSIBLE THAN THE OTHER? I KNOW YOU HAD SAID
IT CAME DOWN TO GREENHOUSES GASSES, THE AMOUNTS, I THINK YOU SAID IT
WAS 100.
MR. DINOWITZ: OKAY. COMPANIES -- SO LET ME --
I'LL GO THROUGH IT AGAIN.
MR. DURSO: YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE
WHOLE THING.
MR. DINOWITZ: BUT --
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DURSO: I KNOW -- I KNOW BUT I HAVE A FINITE
AMOUNT OF TIME, ALSO. SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS --
MR. DINOWITZ: I KNOW, THEN USE IT WISELY.
MR. DURSO: I'M -- I'M TRYING TO.
MR. DINOWITZ: COMPANIES -- COMPANIES DEEMED
TO BE RESPONSIBLE PARTIES WOULD PAY THEIR PROPORTIONATE SHARE BASED ON
THEIR PERCENTAGE SHARE OF THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS
OF ALL THE RESPONSIBLE PARTIES DURING THE COVED PERIOD FROM 2000 TO
2018. AND THE RESPONSIBLE PARTIES ARE DEFINED AS THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR
THE EMISSION OF MORE THAN ONE BILLION TONS OF GHGS IN THE COVERED
PERIOD.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. NOW 100 TONS OF GHG,
CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: ONE BILLION TONS.
MR. DURSO: ONE BILLION TONS, EXCUSE ME. SO IS
THERE MORE THAN -- OR HOW MANY COMPANIES HAVE ADMITTED MORE THAN
100 BILLION TONS OF GHB [SIC]?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, AS I PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED
BETWEEN 35 AND 40.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO NOW EACH ONE OF THOSE WILL
-- SO I DON'T WANT TO SIT THERE AND DO THE MATH, BUT IF THERE'S 35 TO 40 OF
THEM, THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE FINED IN THE AMOUNTS THAT DEPENDING UPON
HOW MUCH EACH COMPANY HAS DISTRIBUTED THAT AMOUNT OF GREENHOUSE
GAS, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, IT'S NOT A FINE. I WOULD CALL
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
IT AN ASSESSMENT, IT'S DEFINITELY NOT A FINE.
MR. DURSO: WE CAN CALL IT AN ASSESSMENT, A FINE, A
TAX, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I'M NOT CALLING IT A TAX --
MR. DURSO: YOU DON'T HAVE TO, I DID, IT'S OKAY.
BUT NOW ONCE WE HIT THAT $3 BILLION MARK FOR THE YEAR, RIGHT, NO OTHER
COMPANIES ARE GOING TO BE ASSESSED, RIGHT, BECAUSE WE HIT 3 BILLION.
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT, I DON'T
WANT TO SAY BACKWARDS, BUT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT THE WRONG WAY. THE
$3 BILLION, THERE'S X NUMBER OF COMPANIES, LET'S SAY THERE WERE 40 OF
THEM.
MR. DURSO: RIGHT.
MR. DINOWITZ: EACH OF THOSE 40 COMPANIES
WOULD BE ASSIGNED A PERCENTAGE OF THE DAMAGE. SO A PERCENTAGE
MEANS THAT ALL THE PERCENTAGES TAKEN TOGETHER ADDS UP TO ONE OR A
HUNDRED PERCENT. SO IF THERE'S $3 BILLION AND ONE COMPANY IS ASSESSED
10 PERCENT, LET'S SAY AND I'M MAKING UP A NUMBER --
MR. DURSO: SURE.
MR. DINOWITZ: -- THAT'S $300 MILLION. SO WHEN
YOU TAKE ALL THE PERCENTAGES AND MULTIPLY IT AGAINST -- ON -- ON 3
BILLION, IT'LL ADD UP TO $3 BILLION. IT'S VERY SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD.
MR. DURSO: NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT NOW WHAT
YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU'VE IDENTIFIED THESE 35 TO 40 COMPANIES ALREADY,
RIGHT, SO IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE.
MR. DINOWITZ: NO, NO, NO. THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
I'M SAYING THERE -- THERE -- WE HAVE -- THERE'S A LIST OF COMPANIES AND
BUT THERE'S NO OFFICIAL FINAL DESIGNATION OF COMPANIES, BUT WE BELIEVE
THE NUMBER IS SOMEWHERE AROUND 35 TO 40.
MR. DURSO: WHO'S MAKING THAT FINAL DESIGNATION
AND WHEN?
MR. DINOWITZ: THAT WOULD BE DEC,
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO THE DEC HAS GOT A LOT OF
RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS.
MR. DINOWITZ: YES, THAT'S RIGHT.
MR. DURSO: AND IT'S FROM 2000 TO 2018?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES, THAT'S A 19-YEAR PERIOD.
MR. DURSO: OKAY, RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND THAT. I'M
NOT THAT BAD AT MATH BUT I APPRECIATE IT. SO IS IT GOING TO BE FOR EACH
YEAR WITHIN THAT TIME PERIOD? SO THERE MIGHT BE 35 TO 40 COMPANIES
FROM 2000, BUT THERE MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT 35 TO 40 COMPANIES FROM
2001, OR IS IT ALL THE SAME COMPANIES THROUGHOUT THOSE 18 YEARS?
MR. DINOWITZ: YOU LOOK AT ALL THE COMPANIES THAT
EXIST AND THOSE THAT REACH AT LEAST 100 BILLION TONS OF GHGS DURING THAT
19-YEAR PERIOD WOULD BE THE COMPANIES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT ONE YEAR AT A TIME. IT'S CUMULATIVE. WE'RE ADDING
IT UP OVER THAT 19-YEAR PERIOD.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO THAT 19-YEAR PERIOD IS REALLY
JUST THE MARKER FOR WHAT WE'RE SAYING HAPPENED BETWEEN THAT TIME
PERIOD, THAT'S IT. AND THEN WHATEVER COMPANIES FALL WITHIN THAT, YOU'RE
GOING TO GET $75 BILLION OUT OF THOSE COMPANIES THAT HAVE EMITTED THAT
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AMOUNT OF GREENHOUSE GAS FROM 2000 TO 2018, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO NOW DOES GETTING THAT
MONEY, RIGHT, INTO THIS FUND CHANGE -- IS IT GOING TO STOP CLIMATE
CHANGE IN ANY WAY GOING FORWARD? IS IT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING
GOING FORWARD?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S NOT GOING TO STOP CLIMATE
CHANGE. THIS FUND IS MEANT TO DEAL WITH THE DAMAGES CAUSED BY THOSE
COMPANIES THAT RESULTED IN CLIMATE CHANGE AND CAUSED ALL THESE OTHER
PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE. WE HAVE OTHER THINGS WE'RE DOING TO TRY AND
DIMINISH CLIMATE CHANGE IN THE FUTURE, BUT THIS IS MERELY AN ASSESSMENT
TO TRY TO HELP DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS THAT WERE CAUSED.
MR. DURSO: UNDERSTOOD. SO YOU'RE SAYING THOSE
COMPANIES DURING THAT AMOUNT OF TIME PERIOD CAUSED A CERTAIN AMOUNT
OF CLIMATE CHANGE, RIGHT, DUE TO THEIR GREENHOUSES GAS EMISSIONS,
RIGHT? AND THEY'RE BEING HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE AMOUNT OF
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS AND CLIMATE CHANGE THAT THIS BILL IS BASICALLY
SAYING THAT THEY CAUSED, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES, I WOULD SAY THAT.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO NOW DURING THAT TIME
PERIOD, RIGHT, THIS IS ALL FOR A LARGE PROJECT. SO DURING THAT TIME PERIOD
IF MY HOUSE FLOODED DURING SUPERSTORM SANDY OR ANY OTHER STORM OR I
LIVE NEAR THE WATER AND I GOT FLOODED, RIGHT, DO I GET MONEY OUT OF THIS
FUND?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO.
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MR. DURSO: WHY?
MR. DINOWITZ: BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE PROJECTS
THAT DIFFERENT ENTITIES SUCH AS A TOWN, FOR EXAMPLE, MIGHT APPLY FOR TO
ADDRESS THE DAMAGE THAT WAS CAUSED BECAUSE OF THESE COMPANIES.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE ASKING FOR A CHECK IN THE
MAIL IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
MR. DURSO: BUT MY QUESTION IS, IF I'M A
HOMEOWNER AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT THESE COMPANIES CAUSED CLIMATE
CHANGE, WHICH THEN MAY HAVE CAUSED FLOODING, EXTREME WEATHER, LIKE
YOU MENTIONED THE SNOW IN BUFFALO, WHICH I MEAN I KNOW IT NEVER
SNOWS THERE. YOU KNOW, OTHER --
MR. DINOWITZ: IT NEVER SNOWED THERE TO THE EXTENT
THAT IT DID A COUPLE YEARS AGO --
MR. DURSO: NO, I KNOW. A LOT OF SNOW, IT DOES
HAPPEN.
MR. DINOWITZ: -- THAT 20 PEOPLE DIED.
MR. DURSO, I UNDERSTAND THAT JUST LIKE DURING
SUPERSTORM SANDY MY NEIGHBORHOOD WAS OUT OF POWER FOR SIX MONTHS.
WE HAD PEOPLE THAT DIED, PASSED AWAY, COULDN'T GET OUT OF THEIR HOMES,
I UNDERSTAND THAT SO BELIEVE ME. BUT MY QUESTION IS, THE AMOUNT OF
DAMAGE THAT SUPERSTORM SANDY CAUSED, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THESE
COMPANIES ARE PARTIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM DURING THAT TIME. SO WHY
IS IT THAT IF MY INSURANCE COMPANY EITHER PAID ME OUT OR SOMEBODY OUT
THAT HAD DAMAGE TO THEIR HOME, CAN THE INSURANCE COMPANY THEN SAY I
WANT RESTITUTION ON THE MONEY THAT I PAID OUT BECAUSE YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY
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CLAIMING THAT THERE WAS DAMAGES DONE BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE. SO
IF IT WAS CLIMATE CHANGE DURING THAT TIME, WHY COULDN'T I PERSONALLY
SUE OR GET MONEY FROM THIS FUND?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, YOU CAN PUT IN A BILL TO DO
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS BILL DOES.
MR. DURSO: BUT WHY ISN'T THIS ONE GOING TO DO IT IF
YOU'RE SAYING IT CAUSES CLIMATE CHANGE --
MR. DINOWITZ: BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT THE BILL
DOES. LET -- LET -- LET ME FINISH.
MR. DURSO: SURE.
MR. DINOWITZ: I WOULD THINK IF -- LET'S SAY A TOWN
SUBMITS A PROPOSAL TO, I DON'T KNOW, BUILD A WALL AROUND THE TOWN SO
THAT ALL THE WATER THAT'S COME RUSHING IN -- MAKING THAT UP OBVIOUSLY.
MR. DURSO: SURE.
MR. DINOWITZ: THAT COULD BE A POTENTIAL PROJECT
SO THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE FUTURE DAMAGE LIKE THAT. BUT IT DOESN'T
CONTEMPLATE INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE GETTING MONEY BECAUSE THEIR BASEMENT
FLOODED.
MR. DURSO: SO -- SO THIS FUND IS JUST FOR A LARGE
PROJECT. IT'S NOT FOR PEOPLE. LIKE, YOU WERE SAYING BEFORE --
(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)
MR. DINOWITZ: -- FOR PEOPLE --
MR. DURSO: WELL, NO. YOU SAID BEFORE THIS IS TO
HELP OUR CONSTITUENTS. YOU SAID THE 130,000 PEOPLE THAT EACH ONE OF
US REPRESENT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOU JUST SAID THIS FUND IS NOT TO HELP
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PEOPLE. THIS IS TO HELP LARGE PROJECTS.
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. I --
MR. DURSO: WELL, YOU SAID THAT BEFORE.
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. WHAT I SAID WAS THAT IT'S NOT
TO HELP INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE, IT'S TO HELP -- I'LL SAY IT THIS WAY. IT'S TO HELP
US COLLECTIVELY -- THE DAMAGE. I MEAN YOU'VE GOT TWO CHOICES, AND I
SAID IT EARLIER. EITHER YOU WANT TO HELP THE PEOPLE OR YOU WANT TO HELP
THE COMPANIES. IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE. IT'S A VERY BINARY CHOICE. IF YOU
WANT TO PROTECT THESE COMPANIES FROM PAYING FOR THE DAMAGES THAT
THEY CAUSED ALL ALONG FOR MANY YEARS, VOTE NO. BUT IF YOU WANT TO TRY
TO START HELPING THE PEOPLE OF OUR DISTRICT WHO'VE BEEN DAMAGED
BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY'VE DONE, THEN I WOULD THINK YOU WOULD WANT TO
SUPPORT THE BILL.
MR. DURSO: SEE, NOW I WOULD -- I WOULD ARGUE
WITH THE CONTRARY. I THINK IN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU'RE SAYING I'M
SAYING IT THAT WAY. I'M SAYING YOU WANT TO HELP LARGE PROJECTS BUT NOT
PEOPLE, AND I CAN SLAM THE DESK, TOO, LIKE YOU DID.
MR. DINOWITZ: I DIDN'T SAY I WANT TO HELP LARGE
PROJECTS. WHAT I SAID WAS --
MR. DURSO: IF A -- IF A PERSON'S HOUSE GOT FLOODED
--
(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: FOLKS, GUYS. HOLD,
HOLD, HOLD, PLEASE. EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME. QUESTION, ANSWER, ANSWER,
THEN QUESTION. ONE AT A TIME, PLEASE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(BUZZER SOUNDED)
MR. DINOWITZ: OH, YOUR TIME'S UP, SORRY.
MR. DURSO: THAT'S A SHAME FOR YOU.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MS. LEVENBERG FOR
AN ANNOUNCEMENT.
MS. LEVENBERG: MR. SPEAKER, WILL YOU PLEASE
CALL THE RULES COMMITTEE TO MEET IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: RULES COMMITTEE TO
THE SPEAKERS CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY.
MS. LEVENBERG: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. SLATER.
MR. SLATER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: ABSOLUTELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. SLATER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. AND NOW
THAT MY COLLEAGUE HAS GOT YOU ALL WARMED UP AND AWAKE, I'M HAPPY TO
CONTINUE WITH ANOTHER LINE OF QUESTIONS HERE. YOU SPOKE EARLIER ABOUT
HOW AND WHY YOU SETTLED ON 3 BILLION AND 75 BILLION. CAN YOU JUST
REMIND ME WHAT THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION WAS? WHY IS IT $3 BILLION
A YEAR, WHY IS IT 75 BILLION IN TOTAL? WHERE DO WE DERIVE THAT NUMBER
-- THOSE NUMBERS FROM?
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DINOWITZ: WE DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE TOO LITTLE,
WE DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE TOO MUCH. WE WANTED IT TO BE JUST RIGHT.
MR. SLATER: OKAY. SO JUST LIKE GOLDILOCKS, I GOT
IT. SO THERE'S REALLY NO LIKE SCIENTIFIC REASON OR ECONOMIC REASON WE
PICKED THOSE NUMBERS.
MR. DINOWITZ: NO, NO. MY ANSWER IS A -- IS A VERY
SINCERE ANSWER. WE WANTED IT TO BE ENOUGH TO AT LEAST HAVE SOME
IMPACT, BUT WE DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE SO MUCH THAT IT COULD POSSIBLY
ADVERSE THESE POLLUTERS.
MR. SLATER: BUT DO WE KNOW --
MR. DINOWITZ: ADVERSELY AFFECT THESE POLLUTERS.
MR. SLATER: I UNDERSTAND, THANK YOU. DO WE
KNOW -- IS THERE AN ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE TOTAL COST WHEN IT COMES TO
RESILIENCY -- AND BY THE WAY, I -- I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING DO
HERE AND -- AND I THINK IT -- THERE'S -- THERE'S MERIT TO IT, I GET IT. BUT DO
WE KNOW IT'S GOING TO HELP COVER 50 PERCENT OF THE COST OVERALL, 25
PERCENT, 75 PERCENT, DO WE HAVE ANY TYPE OF ESTIMATE FOR THE STATE?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I CAN'T GIVE YOU AN EXACT
NUMBER EXCEPT TO SAY WE COVER A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE COST OF
DEALING WITH THE RAMIFICATIONS OF CLIMATE CHANGE, MUCH OF WHICH WAS
CAUSED BY THESE COMPANIES. BECAUSE AS I SAID AT THE BEGINNING WHEN
MR. GOODELL ASKED ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE, I MENTIONED THAT THE
ESTIMATES FOR UPGRADING NEW YORK CITY'S SEWAGE SYSTEM ALONE IS $100
BILLION, AND I MENTIONED SOME OTHER FIGURES DEALING WITH LONG ISLAND
FORTIFYING MANHATTAN, NOT TO MENTION ALL OF THE UPSTATE AREAS THAT --
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MR. SLATER: ESPECIALLY THE HUDSON VALLEY, RIGHT?
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FORGET MY HUDSON VALLEY, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, WOULD THAT BE LIKE NEAR MR.
EACHUS'S DISTRICT?
MR. SLATER: ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RIVER. ON THE
OTHER SIDE.
MR. DINOWITZ: SO IT WOULD BE NEAR, WHICH IS WHAT
I HAD MENTIONED I THINK TWICE SO FAR --
MR. SLATER: YEP.
MR. DINOWITZ: -- THAT THERE WERE SEVERE PROBLEMS
IN THAT AREA AND --
MR. SLATER: YEP, AND I WITNESSED THEM AND
EXPERIENCED THEM MYSELF ON MY SIDE OF THE RIVER AS WELL SO I
APPRECIATE THAT --
MR. DINOWITZ: ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN TO HAVE A
VALLEY YOU NEED TO HAVE TWO SIDES.
MR. SLATER: YEP, ABSOLUTELY. SO ONE OF THE THINGS
I WAS WONDERING IN THE PREVIOUS CONVERSATION YOU HAD WITH MY
COLLEAGUE, WE KEPT TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE STATE AGENCIES THAT ARE
GOING TO BE INVOLVED IN THE -- IN THE PROCESS OF VETTING SOME OF THE
PROJECTS, AWARDING SOME OF THE MONEY. IS THERE, IN THIS LEGISLATION, ANY
TYPE OF ALLOCATION FOR ADDITIONAL STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR AGENCIES
ARE PROPERLY STAFFED TO HANDLE THE ADDITIONAL WORKLOAD ASSOCIATED WITH
WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING?
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S IN THIS
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LEGISLATION.
MR. SLATER: NOT IN THE LEGISLATION --
MR. DINOWITZ: -- THAT'S SOMETHING FOR US TO DEAL
WITH DURING BUDGET TIME.
MR. SLATER: UNDERSTOOD. SO RIGHT NOW AS IT
STANDS, THEN, IN YOUR LEGISLATION WE'RE EXPECTING THE CURRENT WORKFORCE,
THE CURRENT WORK -- AT THE CURRENT STAFFING LEVELS TO TAKE ON THIS
ADDITIONAL PROJECT.
MR. DINOWITZ: I THINK WE HAVE AN EXCELLENT STAFF
AT THESE AGENCIES AND I'M SURE THEY'RE VERY CAPABLE, BUT --
MR. SLATER: IS THAT A YES OR NO, SIR?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I CAN'T ANSWER YES OR NO
QUESTIONS. SO --
MR. SLATER: SO I'LL TAKE IT AS A YES.
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M ALSO SURE THAT IF ADDITIONAL
STAFF IS NEEDED THAT WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THAT HAPPENS.
MR. SLATER: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THE
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THAT. SO WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF
THE COMPANIES THAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON. I SEE THINGS LIKE SAUDI ARAMCO,
COAL INDIA, PETROCHINA. ONE OF THE THINGS I'M WONDERING, HAS THIS
LEGISLATIVE BODY EVER PASSED LEGISLATION THAT -- AND WE'VE USED THE
TERMS SURCHARGE, TAX, FINE, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, COMPANIES THAT
ARE REALLY INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES.
MR. DINOWITZ: I -- I BELIEVE WE HAVE A STATE
SUPERFUND.
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MR. SLATER: SO THAT IS -- SO THE ANSWER IS YES IN
YOUR OPINION?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
MR. SLATER: SO THE LEGISLATURE HAS PASSED
MEASURES BEFORE THAT LEVY THESE TAXES ON --
MR. DINOWITZ: NOT TAXES.
MR. SLATER: -- COMPANIES THAT ARE SURCHARGES,
FINES, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DEFINE IT AS, ON COMPANIES THAT ARE NOT --
NOT ONLY BASED IN NEW YORK, BUT NOT BASED IN THE UNITED STATES.
MR. DINOWITZ: AS LONG AS THEY HAVE SOME NEXUS
TO NEW YORK THE ANSWER IS YES, WE CAN DO THAT.
MR. SLATER: BUT HAVE WE DONE THAT?
MR. DINOWITZ: I BELIEVE I SAID YES ALREADY. WE
HAVE THE NEW YORK STATE SUPERFUNDS.
MR. SLATER: OKAY. NOW WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SUPERFUND THEY UTILIZE MOSTLY THREE REVENUE
STREAMS, THREE TAXES, THEY ACTUALLY CALL THEM TAXES. WHY DIDN'T WE USE
THAT MODEL VERSUS THIS ONE?
MR. DINOWITZ: I LIKE THIS MODEL BETTER. I THINK IT
WILL BE MORE EFFICIENT, MORE EFFECTIVE.
MR. SLATER: IN WHAT WAY?
MR. DINOWITZ: I THINK -- I THINK THIS A SMART WAY
TO DO IT. WE'RE ASSESSING A -- A -- A CHARGE ON EACH OF THESE COMPANIES
AND WE'RE NOT CHARGING ANY TAXES. MAKES SENSE TO ME.
MR. SLATER: I UNDERSTAND. I'M JUST TRYING TO -- I
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JUST REALLY DON'T QUITE SEE WHY THE FEDERAL SYSTEM IS INFERIOR TO OUR
SYSTEM.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, WE CALLED IT CLIMATE CHANGE
SUPERFUND BECAUSE IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO -- YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T REINVENT
THE WHEEL HERE. THE STATE HAS A SUPERFUND. THIS IS NOT -- WE'RE NOT
BREAKING NEW GROUND. WE ALREADY HAVE A SUPERFUND SO WE'RE DOING
SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT.
MR. SLATER: HMM, OKAY. YOU SAID BEFORE THAT
THE COSTS -- ANY COSTS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE ASSOCIATED, BUT LET'S JUST
SAY THAT THERE MAY BE COSTS ASSOCIATED, WON'T BE PASSED ON TO
CONSUMERS. IS THERE ANY LANGUAGE IN YOUR LEGISLATION THAT STIPULATES
THAT?
MR. DINOWITZ: THERE IS NO LANGUAGE THAT
STIPULATES THAT. AND IN FACT IT MAY BE QUESTIONABLE AS TO WHETHER WE
CAN EVEN SAY THAT IN THE LEGISLATION. BUT I THINK IT -- IT TAKES COMMON
SENSE TO UNDERSTAND AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE HERE HAVE SOME COMMON
SENSE, THAT BECAUSE OF THE LAWS OF THE MARKET THAT IT WOULD BE VERY
HARD FOR ONE COMPANY TO RAISE THEIR PRICES WHEN ANOTHER COMPANY
THAT'S NOT BEING ASSESSED THIS -- THIS MONEY WOULDN'T HAVE -- WOULDN'T
RAISE THEIR PRICES. SO AS A PERSON WHO BELIEVES IN COMPETITION AND
CAPITALISM, I AM CONFIDENT THAT THIS IS NOT A COST THAT WOULD BE PASSED
ON TO ANYBODY AND THEY'LL BE A TREMENDOUS BENEFIT TO ALL OF OUR
CONSTITUENTS.
MR. SLATER: I UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND. I THINK I
JUST FRANKLY DISAGREE JUST FROM THE SENSE THAT THE TRACK RECORD OF NEW
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YORK THESE DAYS, I THINK THIS TYPE OF LANGUAGE WOULD BE VERY BENEFICIAL
TO CONSUMERS, AND ESPECIALLY TO OUR VOTERS AND ESPECIALLY TO OUR
RESIDENTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL COSTS THAT ARE PASSED
ON TO THEM. WHAT ABOUT THE MTA?
MR. DINOWITZ: WHAT ABOUT THE MTA?
MR. SLATER: WOULD THE MTA BE ELIGIBLE FOR ANY
OF THE FUNDS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT DEPENDS ON THE PLAN THAT THE --
THAT THE VARIOUS AGENCIES THAT I DESCRIBED EARLIER COME UP WITH.
MR. SLATER: SO ISN'T IT A LITTLE SUSPECT THAT HERE WE
ARE DEALING WITH A $1 BILLION HOLE, $15 BILLION HOLE THAT THE MTA IS
RAPPELLING WITH THIS WEEK AND OUT OF NOWHERE WE'RE NOW DEALING WITH
OR LOOKING AT AND EXAMINING A PROPOSAL THAT WOULD BRING $3 BILLION
ANNUALLY. HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT GOING TO GO RIGHT INTO THE
MTA TO DEAL WITH THE RESILIENCY PROJECTS THAT THEY MAY NEED VERSUS THE
REST OF THE STATE?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I BELIEVE I FILED
THIS BILL TWO YEARS AGO. AND THIS VERSION OF THE BILL MONTHS AND
MONTHS AND MONTHS BEFORE THE EVENTS OF THE PAST FEW DAYS. SO UNLESS I
-- I'D LIKE TO THINK I COULD SEE THE FUTURE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, BUT I'M NOT
THAT GOOD AND THIS BILL IS JUST NOT A BRAND-NEW BILL.
MR. SLATER: BUT AGAIN, THERE'S NOTHING THAT
PRECLUDES THE MONEY THAT THIS BILL GENERATES FROM BEING FUNNELED
DIRECTLY INTO THE MTA TO DEAL WITH RESILIENCY CAPITAL PROJECTS.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, IF -- IF -- IF THERE WAS -- IF IT
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WAS DETERMINED THAT IT WOULD BE SENSIBLE TO DO SOMETHING TO PREVENT
THE SUBWAYS FROM FLOODING THE WAY IT DID DURING HURRICANE SANDY, TO
ME THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE A VERY APPROPRIATE THING TO SPEND SOME
MONEY ON BECAUSE WE WANT TO PROTECT OUR SUBWAY SYSTEM JUST AS WE
WOULD ANYWHERE IN THE STATE TO PROTECT PUBLIC TRANSIT SYSTEMS. VERY
APPROPRIATE.
MR. SLATER: BUT AGAIN, NOTHING THAT PRECLUDES ALL
THOSE DOLLARS FROM GOING INTO ONE AUTHORITY. I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS
AS ALWAYS MR. -- TO THE SPONSOR. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TIME AT
THIS LATE HOUR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. LEMONDES.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES, I WILL.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. LEMONDES: WONDERFUL, THANK YOU. I PROMISE
I WON'T TAKE LONG, JUST A FEW QUESTIONS AND MOSTLY CLARIFICATIONS. I
HEARD YOU SAY AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE THE CAUSE OF
CLIMATE CHANGE HERE IN NEW YORK. IS THAT A TRUE STATEMENT?
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T THINK I SAID THAT.
MR. LEMONDES: THAT'S WHAT I HEARD EARLIER. THAT
WE HAVE TO SOLVE THIS, IS THAT TRUE?
MR. DINOWITZ: OH, I'M SURE THAT WE DO HAVE TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
HELP SOLVE IT. WHAT I SAID REPEATEDLY WAS THAT THE -- THESE FOSSIL FUEL
COMPANIES HAVE CONTRIBUTED VERY SIGNIFICANTLY TO CLIMATE CHANGE, AND
THAT AFFECTS PEOPLE IN NEW YORK AS IT DOES EVERYWHERE ELSE.
MR. LEMONDES: AND THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND I'M
GUESSING THAT THAT'S INDEPENDENT OF THE PERCENTAGE OF EFFLUENT OF ANY
TYPE THAT'S PRODUCED HERE VERSUS IN CHINA, 29 PERCENT OF THE WORLD'S
EFFLUENCE, INDIA AND RUSSIA AS NUMBER 2 AND NUMBER 3.
MR. DINOWITZ: YOU KNOW, IT'S A FUNNY THING ABOUT
CLIMATE AND POLLUTION, THERE ARE NO WALLS BETWEEN STATES, BETWEEN
COUNTRIES, IT GOES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD AND IT IMPACTS US. SO
SOMETHING THAT -- I THINK IT WAS ALMOST A YEAR AGO TODAY, THERE WERE
THOSE HORRIBLE FIRES UNDOUBTEDLY EXACERBATED BY CLIMATE CHANGE IN
CANADA WHICH IMPACTED US HERE AND THERE WERE MANY -- I MEAN YOU
REMEMBER THAT. YOU WERE HERE WHEN THE SKIES WERE DARKENED BY THE
SMOKE COMING FROM HUNDREDS OF MILES AWAY. SO WE'RE ALL AFFECTED BY
THINGS THAT HAPPEN BEYOND OUR BORDER, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
MR. LEMONDES: PERFECT. I'M GLAD -- I'M GLAD YOU
BROUGHT THAT UP. THOSE FOREST FIRES WERE ACTUALLY CAUSED BY
MISMANAGEMENT OF THE -- OF THEIR FORESTS. SO THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO
WITH -- WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.
MR. DINOWITZ: YOU SOUND LIKE THE EX-PRESIDENT.
MR. LEMONDES: THAT'S UNDERSTORY THAT'S
UNMANAGED IS WHAT FUELED THOSE FIRES. SO THAT'S A -- THAT'S A -- THAT'S A
SMALLER POINT. LET'S MOVE ON. RECOGNIZING THAT, I ANTICIPATED YOUR
RESPONSES. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE -- WITH THE PLAN THAT WAS IN THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
BUDGET THAT WAS THE INITIATIVE OF OUR GOVERNOR CALLED THE MILLION TREE
PLAN?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO, I'M NOT, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT
IT WOULD HAVE TO DO WITH THE BILL ANYWAY.
MR. LEMONDES: WELL, YOU MENTIONED -- YOU
MENTIONED THAT POLLUTION IS - KNOWS NO BOUNDARY.
MR. DINOWITZ: POLLUTION KNOWS NO BOUNDARY,
THAT'S TRUE. I ALSO WOULD SAY TREES ARE GOOD AND TREES DON'T CAUSE
POLLUTION. I THINK WE HAD A PRESIDENT THAT ONCE SAID THAT.
MR. LEMONDES: THAT'S RIGHT. I'M GLAD YOU
MENTIONED THAT.
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M SO HAPPY THAT YOU --
MR. LEMONDES: TREES ARE OUR GREATEST CARBON
SEQUESTRATION TOOL. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE HARVEST RATE OF TREES IS IN
NEW YORK WITH RESPECT TO THE FOREST COVERAGE THAT WE HAVE?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO, I DO NOT.
MR. LEMONDES: WE ARE HARVESTING MUCH LESS
THAN THAT WHICH IS REPOPULATING MANY OF OUR FALLOWED FIELDS BECAUSE
FARMS ARE CLOSING. AND SO OUR -- PERHAPS ONE OF OUR GREATEST TOOLS
AVAILABLE TO SEQUESTER CARBON OVER THE LONG-TERM IS ACTUALLY INCREASING
THROUGH AN INITIATIVE THAT WAS BROUGHT FORWARD IN ONE -- IN ONE CASE
RIGHT HERE BY OUR GOVERNOR WITH THIS MILLION TREE PLAN. I DON'T KNOW
WHERE THEY'RE ALL GOING TO GO. IN MY DISTRICT WE'VE GOT SO MANY TREES
THEY'RE -- THEY'RE COMING OUT OF EVERY CORNER.
MR. DINOWITZ: I'LL TAKE AS MANY AS MY DISTRICT
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
COULD HOLD.
MR. LEMONDES: WELL, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. I'M
GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK YOUR DISTRICT CAN TAKE
TOO MANY MORE. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO ASK YOU, DO YOU
THINK THAT IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THIS IS EXACERBATED, NOW I'M TALKING RIGHT
HERE IN NEW YORK, THAT THIS IS EXACERBATED BY PERHAPS
OVER-DEVELOPMENTS IN OUR -- IN NEW YORK CITY, LONG ISLAND AND THE
LOSS OF -- AND THE LOSS OF SIGNIFICANT PORTIONS OF NATURAL DRAINAGE? WE
KEPT TALKING ABOUT IT -- I HEARD THROUGH SEVERAL OF MY COLLEAGUES WE
WERE TALKING ABOUT FLOODING, FLOODING, FLOODING, FLOODING. SO I WANT TO
GIVE YOU THE CHANCE TO ADDRESS THAT, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I HEARD.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I'M GLAD YOU ASKED ME THAT.
SO I WOULD LOVE TO SEE EVERY POSSIBLE TREE PLANTED EVERYWHERE WE CAN
DO THAT AND THAT'S GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT. IT'S GOOD, PERIOD. BUT
AGAIN, NOT MUCH TO DO WITH THIS BILL.
MR. LEMONDES: WELL, IT'S GOT EVERYTHING TO DO
WITH THIS BILL.
MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS BILL.
MR. LEMONDES: WE CAN -- WE CAN DISAGREE ABOUT
THAT. SO I -- I WANTED TO ASK, AS YOU -- AS YOU PUT FORTH THIS PLAN, I'M
NOT GOING TO REHASH THAT WHICH WAS COVERED BY MY COLLEAGUES. I THINK
THAT THE FACT THAT THE RANDOMNESS OF THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. IT'S VERY
RANDOM. AND SO RECOGNIZING THAT IT'S RANDOM AND THAT IT IS SETTING UP
SIMPLY A MEANS OF EXTRACTION FROM COMPANIES TO FUND I DON'T KNOW
WHAT BECAUSE I'M NOT -- I'M NOT CLEAR ON WHERE EXACTLY THIS MONEY IS
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GOING TO GO. I DON'T THINK IT'S LAID OUT WELL ENOUGH AT ALL. BUT
RECOGNIZING THAT, I WANTED TO ASK A SIMPLE QUESTION. DO YOU THINK
THERE'S A COST AT ALL TO PROGRESS?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T RECOGNIZE
WHAT YOU SAID THAT WE RECOGNIZE. IS THERE A COST TO PROGRESS?
MR. LEMONDES: YES.
MR. DINOWITZ: THERE'S ALWAYS A COST TO PROGRESS.
AGAIN, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BILL BUT, YES.
MR. LEMONDES: AND DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S
POSSIBLE THAT AS THESE COMPANIES OPERATED IN THE WINDOW THAT YOU
IDENTIFY IN THIS BILL, THAT THEY WERE DOING SO WITH THE BEST TECHNOLOGY
AVAILABLE AT THE TIME WITHIN THEIR PERMITTED GUIDELINES, LEGALLY,
CONSTITUTIONALLY, ETHICALLY, MORALLY, ET CETERA?
MR. DINOWITZ: I THINK THAT EVEN IF ALL THOSE THINGS
WERE TRUE THEY WERE COMMITTING EGREGIOUS HARM TO THE ENVIRONMENT
AND I THINK THEY KNEW IT, THEY KNEW IT FROM DAY ONE. THEY COVERED IT
UP, THEY LIED ABOUT IT AND PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING AS A RESULT OF IT.
MR. LEMONDES: HOW ARE PEOPLE SUFFERING, COULD
YOU TELL ME. I MEAN HEALTH PROBLEMS I'M SURE YOU'RE LINKING THAT TO,
CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, NOT JUST HEALTH PROBLEMS. I
THINK THOSE PEOPLE -- THOSE PEOPLE WHO DIED IN THE BASEMENTS OF A -- OF
HOUSES IN QUEENS DURING HURRICANE IDA, THAT AFFECTS THEM.
MR. LEMONDES: OF COURSE. I WOULDN'T ARGUE THAT.
MR. DINOWITZ: I THINK THAT THE UNPRECEDENTED
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SEVERE SNOWSTORM THAT KILLED MANY PEOPLE IN BUFFALO, THAT AFFECTED
THEM AND I THINK THOSE AND MANY OTHER EXAMPLES ARE A PRODUCT OF THE
CLIMATE CHANGE THAT IS IN PART CAUSED BY THESE COMPANIES THAT WERE --
THAT WERE EMITTING THINGS INTO THE ATMOSPHERE AND THEY KNEW WHAT
THEY WERE DOING AND THEY DIDN'T CARE BECAUSE THEY WANTED THEIR PROFITS
TO BE AS HIGH AS POSSIBLE AND THAT WAS ALWAYS THE NUMBER ONE THING
THEY CARED ABOUT, AND AS A RESULT PEOPLE SUFFERED.
MR. LEMONDES: DO YOU THINK THAT OUR STATE
INVESTS IN ANY OF THOSE COMPANIES FOR THE RETIREMENT PENSIONS OF ALL OF
OUR PUBLIC WORKERS?
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T KNOW WHAT -- WHAT
COMPANIES OUR PENSION FUNDS ARE INVESTED -- ARE INVESTED IN, BUT I KIND
OF HAVE A FEELING THE ANSWER IS NO. BUT I DON'T KNOW, SO I DON'T WANT TO
SAY.
MR. LEMONDES: WE'LL CHECK THAT. AND I JUST
WANT TO POINT OUT, FIRST OF ALL THANK YOU -- THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUSI: ON THE BILL, MR.
LEMONDES.
MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO POINT
OUT THAT THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COST AND PRICE AND WHAT'S
BEING TALKED ABOUT BEING EXTRACTED HERE WILL ULTIMATELY RESULT IN HIGHER
PRICES TO SOMEONE. AND THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE, THE CONSUMERS,
RATEPAYERS, THAT -- THAT -- THAT USE THESE -- WHATEVER THESE COMPANIES
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ARE PRODUCING. I'M ALSO NOT SURE THAT THIS WILL BE LIMITED TO THOSE
CURRENTLY NAMED IN THIS BILL. ADDITIONALLY AND LAST, THIS JUST ISN'T WELL
THOUGHT OUT AT ALL. YOU CANNOT LEVY DESTRUCTIVENESS WITHOUT ANY PROOF.
AND I'M GOING TO CITE THE WEATHER CYCLE AT LEAST THAT I'VE EXPERIENCED
IN SYRACUSE. BLIZZARD OF '66, BLIZZARD OF '77, BLIZZARD OF '87, WE GO
THROUGH APPROXIMATELY A 10 TO 15 YEAR CYCLE WHERE WE HAVE HORRIBLE
WEATHER. I WAS OUT OF THE COUNTRY FOR MANY YEARS, LIVED IN SEVERAL
DIFFERENT STATES FOR THE NEXT PERIOD OF TIME. BUT IN THE LAST TEN YEARS THE
WINTER OF '13 AND '14 AND '14 AND '15 WERE HORRENDOUS. WE ARE NOW AT
THE BOTTOM OF THE CYCLE, AND THIS IS JUST ONE GUY'S OBSERVATION THAT'S OUT
IN THE WEATHER EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND IT'S EASILY CORROBORATED. AND SO IF
WE'RE GOING TO TALK SCIENCE, LET'S TALK SCIENCE. LET'S REALLY DO THAT,
BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE THE SCIENCE THAT YOU'RE CITING AND I'M A
SCIENTIST. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. BROWN.
MR. K. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL MY
COLLEAGUE FROM RIVERDALE PLEASE YIELD TO SOME QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: WILL YOU YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: SURE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: HE YIELDS.
MR. K. BROWN: I PROMISE TO BE BRIEF, THE HOUR IS
LATE AND I JUST WANT TO JUST CLARIFY A COUPLE OF THINGS. TAKING UP WHERE
SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS. YOU MENTIONED
ABOUT THE COMPANIES AND THERE SEEMED TO BE WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH
THAT THERE WAS NO PROBLEM WITH THESE COMPANIES STAYING PROFITABLE AND
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
STAYING SOLVENT. ARE YOU CONCERNED AT ALL THAT AS A RESULT OF THIS THE
COMPANIES WON'T CONTINUE TO DO BUSINESS IN NEW YORK OR THEREFORE NOT
HAVE THAT NEXUS THAT THEY NEED UNDER THIS PLAN?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO.
MR. K. BROWN: AND WHY IS THAT?
MR. DINOWITZ: BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING A LOT OF
PROFITS, AND IF WE TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF THEIR PROFITS THEY'RE GOING TO STILL BE
MAKING A LOT OF PROFITS.
MR. K. BROWN: BUT LET'S SAY AS A RESULT OF THIS PLAN
THEY DECIDE TO NO LONGER HAVE THAT NEXUS WITH NEW YORK AND THEREFORE
WON'T BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS -- THESE FINES ASSESSED TO THEM. THAT IS
POSSIBLE, RIGHT?
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
MR. K. BROWN: OKAY. AND WHEN IT COMES TO
FEDERAL SUPERFUND PROGRAM UNDER THE CERCLA, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE
THOUGH, RIGHT? I MEAN UNDER THAT PROGRAM THERE'S A DIRECT NEXUS FROM
THE POLLUTER PAYS FOR POLLUTING THE LAND OR WATER WHEREAS HERE IT'S
MISSING THAT DIRECT NEXUS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: I -- I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE CASE.
MR. K. BROWN: WELL, AS ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES
POINTED OUT, THERE'S ACTUALLY A CONSUMER THAT COMES IN BETWEEN, RIGHT,
BECAUSE THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE EXTRACTING AND REFINING, BUT
THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY POLLUTING PER SE UNLESS THEY'RE DUMPING IT LIKE
UNDER CERCLA ON THE LAND OR INTO THE WATER, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M -- I'M NOT SURE. WHAT WAS THE
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QUESTION? I DON'T --
MR. K. BROWN: WELL, FOR INSTANCE, WITH THE CARBON
EMISSIONS, RIGHT?
MR. DINOWITZ: RIGHT.
MR. K. BROWN: IT'S BEING -- THE FOSSIL FUELS ARE
BEING BURNED, AND IT'S BEING EMITTED INTO THE AIR AND THAT'S WHERE THE
POLLUTION IS COMING FROM.
MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF POLLUTION,
YEAH.
MR. K. BROWN: BUT IT'S NOT THAT COMPANY THAT'S
ACTUALLY PERFORMING. THE COMPANY THAT'S BEING ASSESSED, THIS FINE IS
NOT ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO'S ACTUALLY POLLUTING; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. THE -- THE COMPANIES HERE IN
THIS BILL THAT WOULD BE ASSESSED THE FINE ARE INDEED COMPANIES THAT ARE
POLLUTING.
MR. K. BROWN: WELL, I GUESS I COULD ASK IT A
DIFFERENT WAY THAT THE EXTRACTION OR THE REFINING ITSELF -- SORRY, STRIKE
THE REFINING. THE EXTRACTION ITSELF DOES NOT POLLUTE, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: THE EXTRACTION?
MR. K. BROWN: THE EXTRACTION ITSELF LET'S SAY OF --
OF -- OF FOSSIL FUELS IN THE FORM OF OIL OR COAL DOES IT POLLUTE, PER SE?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT MIGHT BE POLLUTING IN A DIFFERENT
WAY THEN -- THEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT --
BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT POLLUTION THAT'S BASED ON THE STANDARD THAT I
RECITED A FEW TIMES EARLIER, ONE BILLION TONS OF GHGS IN THE COVERED
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PERIOD, THESE ARE EMISSIONS.
MR. K. BROWN: RIGHT. I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS
THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE CAUSATION THAT'S MISSING THERE, THAT THE POLLUTERS
THAT ARE BEING -- THE COMPANIES THAT ARE BEING ASSESSED UNDER THIS
PROGRAM DO NOT DIRECTLY CAUSE GREENHOUSE EMISSIONS PER SE. THEY'RE --
THEY'RE NOT BURNING ANYTHING, RIGHT?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I'LL -- I'LL USE AN ANALOGY THAT
I KIND OF ALLUDED TO EARLIER. WHEN THERE WAS LEGAL ACTION TAKEN AGAINST
THE TOBACCO COMPANIES, WE WENT AGAINST THE PRODUCERS, THE SELLERS, NOT
THE PEOPLE WHO SMOKED.
MR. K. BROWN: RIGHT. AND I THINK THERE'S STILL A
DISTINCTION THERE. I'M NOT SURE THAT -- I THINK THERE ARE OTHER ACTORS THAT
HAVE TO GO -- BE INCLUDED IN THIS IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT NEXUS, AND I
THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING MISSING IN THERE. BUT THAT BEING SAID,
SO I REPRESENT A COASTAL COMMUNITY IN LONG ISLAND. I HAVE 60 MILES OF
COASTLINE AND THIS IS WHERE I REALLY WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT I UNDERSTAND
THIS BILL CORRECTLY, BECAUSE I WANT TO BE SURE THAT MY COMMUNITY IS
GOING TO BE ABLE TO AVAIL ITSELF OF THE MONEY THAT MIGHT BE CREATED BY
THIS. AND IT'S NOT -- AS YOU SAID, IT'S NOT -- IT'S POTENTIALLY JUST TO MAKE A
COMPARISON, THE BOND ACT THAT WE JUST DID LAST YEAR, THAT WAS 4.2
BILLION, RIGHT?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
MR. K. BROWN: AND THIS WILL GENERATE 3 BILLION IN
ONE YEAR.
MR. DINOWITZ: RIGHT, BUT EVERY YEAR.
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MR. K. BROWN: RIGHT. SO NOW I'VE BEEN DOING A
LOT OF GRANT WORK BECAUSE I HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT PROJECT NEEDS IN MY
COMMUNITY AND LO BEHOLD FOUND OUT THAT A LOT OF THE BOND ACT MONEY,
A LOT OF THAT 4.2 BILLION IS NOT REALLY AVAILABLE FOR THE PROJECTS THAT I
NEED NECESSARILY. ALTHOUGH THEY ARE ENVIRONMENTAL PROJECTS UNDER THE
GENERAL SENSE. BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE BOND ACT HAS NOW BEEN
CRAFTED, AT LEAST TWO OF MY COMMUNITIES, TWO VILLAGES, SMALL VILLAGES,
CAN'T ACCESS THAT MONEY AND THAT CONCERNS ME ABOUT THIS BILL. THAT'S
WHY I WANT TO CLARIFY IT. SO, FOR INSTANCE, WITH THE BOND ACT, I'LL MAKE
THE ANALOGY IN JUST ONE SECOND. JUST FOLLOW ME, RIGHT, FOR A SECOND.
WITH THE BOND ACT THERE WAS A COMMISSION THAT WAS CREATED. YET, NO
LONG ISLANDERS HAVE REPRESENTATION ON THAT COMMISSION. AND MYSELF
AND THE SENATOR WHO REPRESENTS THE AREA HAD TO WRITE A LETTER TO THE
GOVERNOR BASICALLY DEMANDING THAT WE HAD SOME TYPE OF
REPRESENTATION FROM LONG ISLAND ON THAT STATEWIDE COMMISSION. AND
HERE, THE CONCERN I HAVE IS SIMILAR TO MY COLLEAGUE FROM MASSAPEQUA
WHO JUST SAID BEFORE THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE A COMMISSION CREATED
AND NOT JUST HAVE DEC HAVE ALL THE AUTHORITY OF WHERE THIS MONEY IS
DISBURSED. DO YOU SHARE HIS CONCERN? BECAUSE I DO SEE THAT THERE IS A
PROBLEM THERE WITH THIS.
MR. DINOWITZ: I -- I DON'T SHARE THE CONCERN. I
HAD MENTIONED EARLIER THAT THERE WERE A NUMBER OF AGENCIES WHICH
WOULD WORK TOGETHER LIKE A PLANNING COMMISSION SO-TO-SPEAK. I -- I
DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COMPOSITION IS OF WHAT YOU WERE JUST DISCUSSING
WITH RESPECT TO THE BOND ACT, BUT THIS ISN'T THAT. AND I WOULD THINK
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THAT EVERY PLACE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO -- ONCE THEY SET UP THE WHOLE
SYSTEM TO APPLY FOR THE MONEY THAT MAY BE AVAILABLE TO FORTIFY YOUR
COMMUNITY, FOR EXAMPLE, SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE COASTAL FLOODING
COMING IN, BUT THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, AND THE WAY IT WILL WORK
MAY BE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
MR. K. BROWN: WELL, WHILE I WAS WAITING FOR MY
OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS I TOOK A LOOK AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG,
THERE ARE NO PARAMETERS BUILT INTO THIS PROPOSED BILL RELATIVE TO HOW
THAT MONEY IS BEING EXPENDED; IS THAT CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT WOULD BE DETERMINED BY THE
AGENCIES THAT I HAD MENTIONED EARLIER WORKING TOGETHER.
MR. K. BROWN: RIGHT, BUT THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC
PARAMETERS OF HOW THOSE DECISIONS ARE BEING MADE, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: THAT -- THAT WOULD BE DONE. I
MEAN IF WE -- IF WE PUT EVERY LAST DETAIL INTO A BILL THEN THERE WOULDN'T
BE NO FLEXIBILITY FOR THE DETERMINATIONS TO BE MADE THAT MAY BE VERY
APPROPRIATE TO BE MADE.
MR. K. BROWN: I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT WE OFTEN
TALK HERE ABOUT HAVING MINORITY REPRESENTATION ON COMMISSIONS AND
HERE WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A COMMISSION. WE JUST HAVE ONE -- WE HAVE
ONE STATE AGENCY, RIGHT, THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
CONSERVATION THAT'S GOING TO BE MAKING ALL OF THESE DECISIONS. I'M JUST
SAYING, THAT CONCERNS ME, MR. DINOWITZ.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, NO, BUT AS I MENTIONED
EARLIER THERE ARE SEVERAL STATE AGENCIES, A NUMBER OF THEM IN FACT, AND I
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READ THE LIST A LITTLE EARLIER. SO IT'S NOT JUST ONE AGENCY. IT'S A BUNCH OF
AGENCIES THAT WOULD BE INVOLVED.
MR. K. BROWN: OKAY. SO LET ME TALK ABOUT THE
RETRO-ACTIVENESS OF THE FINES, RIGHT? I HEARD MY COLLEAGUES TALK ABOUT
CONCERNS ABOUT THE EX POST FACTO ARGUMENT AND THE LOOKBACK. COULD I
JUST ASK, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND AND CLARIFY, WHY 2000 WAS
SELECTED AND WHY 2018 WAS SELECTED?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S A VERY MEASURABLE -- WE CAN
USE THAT PERIOD OF TIME IN ORDER TO MEASURE AND GET THE NUMBERS THAT
WE NEED. THE FACT IS -- MOST OF THE INCREASE IN GREENHOUSE GAS
CONCENTRATION REALLY SINCE THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION HAS HAPPENED
SINCE 1950, BUT THE AMOUNTS HAVE REALLY ACCELERATED SIGNIFICANTLY AND
SO USING THE YEAR 2000 AS THE BEGINNING, WE WERE ABLE TO GET A
QUANTIFIABLE NUMBER. NOW IT COULD'VE BEEN LET'S SAY 19 -- 1990
THROUGH 2018, THE RESULTS PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE ANY DIFFERENT.
MR. K. BROWN: IS THAT BECAUSE THAT -- THAT WAS A --
LIKE DURING THAT PERIOD THE DATA WAS BEING CAPTURED?
MR. DINOWITZ: THERE'S DATA AS I MENTIONED
EARLIER, THERE'S DATA THAT'S READILY AVAILABLE AND YOU CAN USE THE DATA
FROM THOSE YEARS IN ORDER TO COME UP WITH THE NUMBERS TO ASSESS EACH
OF THE COMPANIES.
MR. K. BROWN: SO WERE THERE ANY STUDIES DONE TO
DETERMINE THE -- THE NEED FOR THIS AND -- AND HOW MUCH THESE -- THESE
PROJECTS WILL COST?
MR. DINOWITZ: THE NEED FOR RAISING MONEY TO
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ADDRESS --
MR. K. BROWN: YES.
MR. DINOWITZ: I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN COUNTLESS
STUDIES AND PAPERS AND YOU NAME IT, THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT WE ARE
GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND A HUGE, AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF RESOURCES JUST
TO COUNTERACT THE EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND ESPECIALLY TAKING INTO
ACCOUNT THAT THIS HAS BEEN ACCELERATING AND IT'S NOT SLOWED DOWN AND,
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T OBVIOUSLY KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE MANY YEARS
FROM NOW. HOPEFULLY IT WILL SLOW DOWN BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE OTHER
MEASURES THAT WE HAVE -- THAT WE'VE TAKEN.
MR. K. BROWN: NO DOUBT, BUT HAS THERE BEEN ANY
TOTAL COSTS ALLOCATED TO THIS? WHAT WE THINK IT'S GOING TO -- WHAT THE
PRICE TAG WILL BE?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL I -- I -- WELL, WE KNOW HOW
MUCH MONEY WILL BE RAISED IF THIS BILL IS --
MR. K. BROWN: RIGHT, RIGHT --
(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK).
MR. DINOWITZ: -- PUT INTO --
MR. K. BROWN: -- BUT THERE'S BEEN NO COST-ANALYSIS
DONE.
MR. DINOWITZ: I -- I MENTIONED A FEW TIMES THAT
THERE'S BEEN STUDIES THAT WOULD SUGGEST THAT UPGRADING NEW YORK CITY
SEWER SYSTEM, THE SEWER SYSTEM OF NEW YORK CITY, THAT'S ONE THING,
$100 BILLION. LONG ISLAND, THE PRICE TAG FOR PROTECTING LONG ISLAND IS
ESTIMATED IT WOULD BE BETWEEN $75 AND $100 BILLION, BILLION.
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MR. K. BROWN: I APPRECIATE THAT. JUST LET ME --
BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME. SO IN TERMS OF NEW YORK
HARBOR, I'VE HEARD PLANS THAT THERE'S AN ENGINEER OUT THERE WHO'S
FLOATING AN IDEA AS A RESULT OF SUPERSTORM SANDY TO DO A SEA GATE. NOW
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT A SEA GATE, CLOSING OFF NEW YORK HARBOR
IS A WISE IDEA. I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, RIGHT, BUT THE PRICE TAG TO THAT IS
ENORMOUS, RIGHT? AND SO MY CONCERN IS WHO DECIDES WHAT PROJECTS ARE
DONE WHEN WE HAVE THIS UNLIMITED PRICE TAG, RIGHT? WE KNOW WE ONLY
HAVE 75 BILLION OVER THE NEXT 25 YEARS TO USE IT ON. SO WITHOUT ANY
PARAMETERS, RIGHT, WITHOUT ANY COST ESTIMATE, YOU KNOW, IT JUST SEEMS
LIKE WE -- WE NEED TO KIND OF DIAL IN THIS STUFF IN ORDER TO FIGURE OUT.
YOU KNOW, WE SAID THAT WE'RE GOING TO GIVE 35 PERCENT TO
DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES, BUT THERE'S 65 PERCENT OF COMMUNITIES
THAT WON'T BE DISADVANTAGED THAT WILL NEED THAT MONEY AND HOW ARE WE
GOING TO ALLOCATE THIS MONEY STATEWIDE TO SUCH A HUGE STATE? HOW
MUCH MONEY GOES TO BUFFALO, HOW MUCH MONEY COMES TO ALBANY,
HOW MUCH MONEY GOES TO LONG ISLAND, HOW MUCH MONEY GOES TO NEW
YORK CITY? WE DON'T KNOW THAT.
MR. DINOWITZ: WHAT -- WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT
THERE WOULD BE AN OPEN PUBLIC PLANNING PROCESS. THERE WOULD BE AN
RFP PROCESS AND THEN MONEY WOULD HAVE TO BE ALLOCATED. COULD I SAY
THAT ALL THE MONEY IS GOING TO GO TO LONG ISLAND? OF COURSE I CANNOT
SAY THAT, BUT -- AND BY THE WAY THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WOULD BE
TAKEN IN BY THIS IS BUT A FRACTION OF WHAT'S NEEDED, WHICH IS WHY THE
STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WOULD STILL HAVE TO COUGH UP A LOT OF
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MONEY BUT HOPEFULLY A LITTLE BIT LESS. THE HOPE IS THAT WE WOULD EASE
THE BURDEN ON LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN NEW YORK THROUGH THESE FUNDS.
MR. K. BROWN: I TOTALLY GET THAT. MY CONCERN IS
REALLY HOW -- SINCE WE KNOW HOW TO (INAUDIBLE) THE MONEY, WE KNOW
WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM, RIGHT, BUT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A
CLEAR PICTURE ON HOW THIS MONEY IS BEING SPENT. AND LET ME JUST GIVE
YOU AN EXAMPLE. I HAVE A COMMUNITY WITHIN MY DISTRICT, RIGHT, THAT'S
IN NEED OF A $20 MILLION SEAWALL. WE HAVE A ROADWAY THAT LEADS OUT
ON A (INAUDIBLE) OUT TO A PENINSULA THAT HAS 3,000 RESIDENTS, RIGHT, AND
THIS SEAWALL IS FAILING. IT'S BEYOND ITS LIFE PERIOD, RIGHT, BY TEN YEARS,
RIGHT, AND I GOT THEM A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY TO HELP SHORE IT UP FOR NOW,
BUT THEY NEED TO START WORKING ON IT NOW. AND ALSO PART OF THAT IS WE
NEED TO RAISE THE ROADBED IMMEDIATELY, RIGHT, BECAUSE EVERY NOR'EASTER
THAT COMES INTO THIS AREA POUNDS THIS ROADWAY, POUNDS THE SEAWALL AND
IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE SOMEBODY GETS HURT OR WORSE. SO I
HAVE A REAL NEED FOR THAT AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT 60 MILES OF
COASTLINE THAT I'M TRULY, YOU KNOW, DOING RIGHT BY MY CONSTITUENTS TO
MAKE SURE THAT SOME OF THIS MONEY IS GOING TO (INAUDIBLE). CAN YOU
ASSURE EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM THAT THIS MONEY IS GOING TO BE ALLOCATED
EQUITABLY BASED ON SOME TYPE OF PARAMETERS AND SOME TYPE OF PRIORITY
LEVEL?
MR. DINOWITZ: THERE -- THERE CERTAINLY WILL BE
PARAMETERS, THERE WILL BE AN RFP PROCESS. SADLY I'M NOT GOING TO BE
THE ONE TO DETERMINE WHERE THE MONEY GOES, BECAUSE IF IT WAS ME I
WOULD CERTAINLY SUPPORT YOUR PROJECT, BUT OBVIOUSLY NO ONE IS GOING TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
COMMIT TO SUPPORTING ANY PROJECT IN ADVANCE. THAT HAS TO BE DONE IN
AN OPEN FASHION THROUGH A PROCESS THAT -- THAT EVERYBODY HAS A CHANCE
TO COMPETE IN.
MR. K. BROWN: I UNDERSTAND. BUT ONE OF MY
COLLEAGUES JUST BROUGHT UP A SECOND AGO, I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THIS
UNTIL JUST NOW, BUT YOU MENTIONED, WE ALL KNOW, AMTRAK, THE MTA,
THE LINES RUN ALONG THE SIDES OF THE HUDSON RIVER. VERY LOW
(INAUDIBLE), RIGHT? THE CROSS ISLAND PARKWAY RUNS RIGHT ALONGSIDE OF
THE BAY. THESE AREAS WERE SELECTED YEARS AGO BECAUSE THEY WERE EASY
PLACES TO CONSTRUCT, EITHER THE RAIL LINES OR THESE ROADWAYS, RIGHT? HOW
DO WE KNOW THAT THIS MONEY -- BECAUSE THAT 15 BILLION THAT WE'RE ALL
CONCERNED ABOUT, RIGHT, HOW WE'RE GOING TO FILL THIS BUDGET HOLE, RIGHT?
WE'RE ALL CONCERNED -- LET ME JUST FINISH MY QUESTION, THAT THAT 15
BILLION WAS FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS AND THAT SOME OF THIS MONEY WILL NOW
BE REALLOCATED AND SENT INTO TO OUR COMMUNITIES TO THE MTA. THAT'S
MY CONCERN. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU, MR.
BROWN.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THANK YOU. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: AN AWFUL LOT OF THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
QUESTIONS I HAD HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, ASKED AND ANSWERED SO FAR SO
I'M GOING TO BE PRETTY BRIEF. WITH REGARDS TO THE HEALTHCARE FUNDING
PROVIDED WITHIN THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION IF, YOU KNOW, GOD WILLING THIS
SOMEHOW MANAGES TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE -- THE JUDICIAL PROCESS AND
LITIGATION IT MAY GO THROUGH. WHAT WILL THAT LOOK LIKE FROM THE FUND TO
THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AS IT STANDS IN YOUR -- IN YOUR MIND?
MR. DINOWITZ: ONE OF THE WAYS SOME MONEY
COULD BE SPENT IS UNDERTAKING PREVENTATIVE HEALTH CARE PROGRAMS AND
PROVIDING MEDICAL CARE TO TREAT ILLNESS OR INJURY CAUSED BY THE EFFECT OF
CLIMATE CHANGE. AND AGAIN, HOW MONEY IS ALLOCATED WOULD BE UP TO
SOMEBODY OTHER THAN THE LEGISLATURE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: YOU UNDERSTAND HOW I CAN
HAVE A REASON FOR CONCERN OR QUESTION. HOW -- I MEAN IT IS A
SUBSTANTIAL SUM OF MONEY BUT YOU LISTED ABOUT $400 BILLION WORTH OF
PROJECTS THAT NEED HAPPEN TO ACTUALLY REMEDIATE PHYSICAL DAMAGES DUE
TO (INAUDIBLE) FOR CLIMATE CHANGE AND YET WE'RE ALSO INCLUDING FIXING
HOUSING AND HEALTHCARE IN SOME CAPACITY AS PART OF THIS PROCESS. IN THE
-- IN THE HEALTHCARE SPACE IN PARTICULAR, I'M JUST REALLY NOT SURE WHAT
THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. IS THIS GOING TO BE LIKE YOU SAID AN RFP FOR THE
PROJECTS THAT EVERYONE MIGHT WANT? ARE WE JUST GOING TO PROVIDE FREE
PREVENTATIVE HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYBODY IN CASE THEY GET ASTHMA OR...
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, THAT -- THAT -- THAT WOULDN'T
BE UP TO ME, OBVIOUSLY. I MEAN, THE BILL --
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: WHO IS IT UP TO, DEC?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT'LL BE UP TO THE GROUP OF AGENCIES
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THAT I TALKED ABOUT. IT WOULD BE UP TO I GUESS REVIEWING DIFFERENT
PROPOSALS. I MEAN, THERE MAY BE A PROPOSAL TO AIR CONDITION SCHOOLS,
FOR EXAMPLE, AS AN EXAMPLE -- BECAUSE THERE WERE -- WHEN I WENT TO
SCHOOL WE DIDN'T HAVE AIR CONDITIONING, WE MANAGED TO SURVIVE, BUT,
YOU KNOW, THINGS ARE DIFFERENT NOW AND IT'S -- IT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT
SO I THINK -- I PERSONALLY THINK THAT LITTLE KIDS DESERVE TO BE IN A SCHOOL
THAT'S NOT 100 DEGREES INSIDE. I MEAN, THAT'S LIKE ONE POSSIBLE TYPE OF
THING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THERE WERE MANY OTHERS, AS WELL. I
MENTIONED EARLIER THAT IN MY DISTRICT AND I KNOW IT'S VERY TRUE IN OTHER
AREAS, THAT THE METRO-NORTH RAILROAD IS LIKE RIGHT NEXT TO THE HUDSON
RIVER. SO THERE ARE -- THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS WE HAVE TO DO AND WITH
THIS FUNDING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PRIORITIZE WHAT MAKES SENSE AT A
PARTICULAR TIME, AND THERE'LL BE OTHER, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE PROJECTS
ARE ALSO THINGS THAT THE STATE OR EVEN THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT OR THE
MTA, AS THE CASE MAY BE, WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS, AS WELL. BUT THIS WILL
HELP ALL OF -- ALL OF US, MEANING THE VARIOUS TOWNS, AREAS OF THE STATE,
THE MTA WILL HELP THEM DO THAT.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: HAS AN ORGANIZATION LIKE THE
-- THE ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION, HAVE THEY PLAYED AN INSTRUMENTAL ROLE
IN THE -- IN THE INTRODUCTION AND PASSAGE OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION?
MR. DINOWITZ: IF THEY HAVE, I'M NOT AWARE OF IT.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I AM AWARE THAT THIS HAS
BEEN FOUNDATIONAL TO IMPLEMENT IN EVERY STATE. I JUST -- I'M CURIOUS IF
YOU FIND IT A LITTLE BIT IRONIC THAT A FOUNDATION CREATED AND FUNDED BY
THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC POLLUTER IS CREATING A LIST OF HISTORICAL POLLUTERS THAT
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OBVIOUSLY DOES NOT INCLUDE THEM OR THEIR LEGACY FUND, BUT IT DOES
INCLUDE ALL THE LEGACY BUSINESSES THEY HAVE CREATED.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, AS I SAID, I'M NOT AWARE OF
THAT BUT, YOU KNOW, IF THAT WERE THE CASE MAYBE THERE -- MAYBE
PENITENCE IS IMPORTANT IN LIFE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH FOR YOUR ANSWERS.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
MR. TAGUE.
MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. DINOWITZ?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES, I'D BE HAPPY TO.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. TAGUE: WELL, MR. DINOWITZ, I HAD SOME YORK
PEPPERMINT PATTIES TO SHARE WITH YOU BUT BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN HERE SO
LONG I ATE THEM ALL.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I'VE BEEN SAVING MINE.
(LAUGHTER)
MR. TAGUE: MR. DINOWITZ, I JUST WAS WONDERING,
WHAT TYPE OF EVIDENCE DO WE HAVE IN THESE PROPERTIES OR FROM THE
OWNERSHIP OF THESE COMPANIES THAT WE KNOW HAVE CAUSED CLIMATE
CHANGE?
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MR. DINOWITZ: LET'S SEE; HURRICANES, TORNADOES,
FLOODS, BLIZZARDS, COASTAL STORMS LIKE WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE AND
FLOODING --
MR. TAGUE: WELL --
MR. DINOWITZ: -- THAT'S UNPRECEDENTED.
MR. TAGUE: -- WELL, LET ME ASK YOU ALONG WITH THAT
QUESTION, HAVEN'T WE HAD THOSE BEFORE WE HAD PETROLEUM PRODUCTS?
DIDN'T WE HAVE THOSE TYPES OF STORMS BEFORE --
MR. DINOWITZ: WE DON'T -- I THINK THE NATIONAL
WEATHER SERVICE HAS RECORDS ONLY GOING BACK TO A CERTAIN POINT IN
TIME, WHICH I BELIEVE IS IN THE LATE 19TH CENTURY. AND THE -- THE -- THE
NUMBER OF HURRICANES, THE SEVERITY OF HURRICANES AND OTHER WEATHER
EVENTS LIKE BLIZZARDS - I KNOW WE'VE HAD SOME BIG BLIZZARDS, THE
BLIZZARD OF '47 AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF AND '88 AND WHATEVER - THE --
THE FREQUENCY AND THE SEVERITY OF THESE EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS IS
UNPRECEDENTED, THE FREQUENCY OF -- AND I SAID ALL THIS EARLIER, MAYBE
YOU WERE OUT OF THE ROOM, OF -- OF SO-CALLED 100 YEAR STORMS IS
UNPRECEDENTED. THE AVERAGE TEMPERATURE THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED YEAR
AFTER YEAR NOW, THIS ISN'T LIKE A ONE-SHOT DEAL, IT'S EVERY YEAR IS BREAKING
RECORDS ALL THE TIME AND IT IS VIRTUALLY UNIVERSALLY AGREED BY SCIENTISTS
THAT THE -- THAT THIS SEVERE WEATHER -- AND SEVERE WEATHER IS NOT JUST HOT,
IT CAN BE COLD, IT CAN BE, LIKE I SAID, BLIZZARDS, IS VIRTUALLY UNIVERSALLY
AGREED THAT THIS SEVERE WEATHER IS CAUSED BY CLIMATE CHANGE, MUCH --
MOST OF WHICH IS A DIRECT RESULT OF FOSSIL FUELS, AND THE -- AND THE
COMPANIES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE THE ONES THAT EMIT THESE
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POLLUTANTS.
MR. TAGUE: BUT WOULDN'T YOU -- WOULDN'T YOU
AGREE WITH ME THAT WE HAVE MUCH BETTER TECHNOLOGY AND BETTER WAY TO
MONITOR THE WEATHER NOW THAN WE DID 200 YEARS AGO? AND I'LL TELL YOU,
THERE ARE REPORTS IN MY COMMUNITY BACK DURING THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR
TIMES THAT THERE WAS FLOODING ACROSS THE SCHOHARIE CREEK AS BAD AS
2011 BACK IN THE LATE 1700S AND 1800S. AND I, AGAIN, ASSURE YOU THAT
WE PROBABLY DID NOT HAVE PETROLEUM PRODUCTS, DEFINITELY NOT
PETROLEUM BULK STORAGE BACK IN THOSE DAYS.
MR. DINOWITZ: NO ONE SAID WE NEVER HAD FLOODS
OR HURRICANES OR ANYTHING OR LIKE THAT. WHAT I'VE SAID IS THAT THE
FREQUENCY AND SEVERITY OF THESE WEATHER EVENTS IS UNPRECEDENTED IN --
SINCE RECORDS HAVE BEEN KEPT FOR WEATHER, UNPRECEDENTED, THE
FREQUENCY AND THE SEVERITY.
MR. TAGUE: WELL, I'M NOT SAYING YOU, SIR, BUT I
HEAR AN AWFUL LOT EVERY TIME THERE'S A WEATHER EVENT WE BLAME IT ON
CLIMATE CHANGE, AND I GUESS MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, HOW LONG HAS THE
CLIMATE BEEN CHANGING?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE CLIMATE
ALWAYS CHANGES FROM TIME TO TIME, THERE WERE WARM PERIODS, THERE
WERE COOLER PERIODS, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS A SUSTAINED
LEVEL OF WARMING THAT'S GONE ON FOR A SUBSTANTIAL PERIOD OF TIME AND
HAS BEEN UNPRECEDENTED IN TERMS OF -- I MEAN, THE HEAT, THE AVERAGE
TEMPERATURE ON THE PLANET, ON THE PLANET, IS THE HIGHEST IN RECORDED
HISTORY, AND THIS IS NOT SOME TEMPORARY SPIKE, IT'S NOT A BLIP. THIS IS
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WHAT'S HAPPENING AND IF WE FAIL TO RECOGNIZE THAT AND I THINK MOST
PEOPLE HAVE, THEN WE'D BE MAKING A DREADFUL MISTAKE.
MR. TAGUE: WELL, HERE'S MY OTHER QUESTION,
BECAUSE NOW I -- NOW -- EVERY TIME WE HEAR SOMETHING OR WE DO
SOMETHING IN THIS CHAMBER, WE HEAR HOW BAD THE CLIMATE IS AND THIS
CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT SINCE THE LATE 1980S, WE
HAVE STARTED TO MAKE CHANGES, ENVIRONMENTALLY IN THINGS THAT WE DO,
MANY DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES THAT WE DO, ESPECIALLY IN THE BUSINESS WORLD.
SO IF WE'RE MAKING THESE CHANGES, IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT WE ARE
REVERSING CLIMATE CHANGE BY THESE INVESTMENTS THAT WE'VE MADE, OR
SOME OF THESE CHANGES THAT WE'VE MADE, BECAUSE ALL I EVER HEAR OF IS
THE BAD. I MEAN, YOU CAN ONLY INVEST IN SOMETHING SO LONG UNTIL YOU
FINALLY FIGURE OUT YOU'RE REALLY NOT DOING ANYTHING, SO DO WE HAVE ANY
EVIDENCE ON THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE THAT WE ACTUALLY ARE REVERSING
CLIMATE CHANGE?
(PAUSE)
MR. DINOWITZ: WE'VE TAKEN A LOT OF STEPS,
ESPECIALLY IN RECENT YEARS, WHICH HOPEFULLY IS SLOWING DOWN THE
NEGATIVE -- THE TERRIBLE CHANGE THAT IS TAKING PLACE. AT SOME POINT,
HOPEFULLY THESE CHANGES CAN START TO BE REVERSED. ARE ANY OF THESE
MEASURES THAT YOU'VE ALLUDED TO HELPING? I WOULD HOPE SO; I -- I CAN'T
ANSWER THAT. WE JUST KNOW WHAT THE TEMPERATURES ARE, WE KNOW HOW
MANY STORMS WE'RE HAVING, WE KNOW HOW SEVERE THE STORMS ARE. YOU
KNOW, WHETHER THINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN WORSE HAD THERE BEEN NO
MEASURES TAKEN SUCH AS THE ONES YOU MENTIONED, I DON'T KNOW THE
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ANSWER TO THAT. BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT I HAVE FOUR GRANDSONS AND I
DON'T WANT THEM GROWING UP IN A HORRIBLE WORLD, AND I THINK MANY OF
US HAVE CHILDREN OR GRANDCHILDREN AND IF WE JUST LET THINGS GO IN THE
SAME DIRECTION THEY'RE GOING IN NOW, THEN WE ARE -- WE ARE BASICALLY
COMMITTING A CRIME, IN MY OPINION. AND SO THIS RELATIVELY MODEST
PROPOSAL IN THIS BILL THAT WOULD HELP THE PEOPLE IN THIS -- IN THE -- IN
THIS STATE BY ASSESSING THE COMPANIES WHO WOULD THEN PICK UP A LITTLE
BITTY PART OF THE COST OF THE DAMAGE WHICH WE ALL KNOW, WHETHER YOU
WANT TO ADMIT IT OR NOT, THAT THEY CAUSED IS NOT AN UNREASONABLE THING
TO DO.
MR. TAGUE: NOW, THIS QUESTION MAY HAVE BEEN
ASKED EARLIER AND I DON'T REMEMBER BECAUSE I THINK WE STARTED THIS
DEBATE YESTERDAY AND IT'S NOW THIS MORNING, BUT WHAT IS THE DEFINITION -
AND I'VE ASKED THIS SEVERAL TIMES - WHAT IS THE DEFINITION TO
DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES? I'VE ASKED THIS QUESTION HERE, I'VE ASKED
IT WITH REGARDS TO AGRICULTURE. IT'S A WORD THAT WE CONTINUE TO USE IN ALL
KINDS OF LEGISLATION BUT NOBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO GIVE ME AN ACTUAL
DEFINITION AS TO WHAT A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY IS.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, LET ME BE THE FIRST.
MR. TAGUE: WELL, I APPRECIATE IT.
MR. DINOWITZ: WE'RE HUNTING IT DOWN.
MR. TAGUE: AS LONG AS YOU GIVE ME ONE OF THOSE
YORK PEPPERMINT PATTIES.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I -- I -- I BELIEVE IN SHARING,
UP TO A POINT, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY DEFINED IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL
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CONSERVATION LAW. BUT I THINK WE KNOW WHAT A DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITY IS. AND I WILL SAY THIS, WITHOUT -- BEFORE WE EVEN GET TO
THE DEFINITION. WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMMUNITIES THAT ARE, I'LL SAY
LOWER INCOME THAN AVERAGE, IT IS AN UNDENIABLE FACT THAT THOSE
COMMUNITIES HAVE SUFFERED DISPROPORTIONATELY, AND I CAN TELL YOU AS AN
EXAMPLE IN MY HOME OF THE BRONX, THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE IN THE
POOREST NEIGHBORHOODS ARE THE VERY COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE THE MOST
PROJECTS, POWER PLANTS, THINGS LIKE THAT. IS THAT A COINCIDENCE? I DON'T
KNOW. BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT LESS WELL-OFF COMMUNITIES HAVE
SUFFERED DISPROPORTIONATELY AND ARE WE STILL LOOKING FOR --
MR. TAGUE: WELL, I WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE THE
ARGUMENT THAT IN RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK WE HAVE THE SAME EXACT
SITUATION.
MR. DINOWITZ: THERE CAN BE DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITIES IN UPSTATE NEW YORK.
MR. TAGUE: AND THAT'S ONE OF MY CONCERNS, AND I
THINK THAT IF YOU WOULD TALK TO ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES THAT REPRESENT
RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK, ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE IS
WATER AND SEWER AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND BEING ABLE TO MAINTAIN IT.
SO THE REASON WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION IS I'M HOPING THAT THE
DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES DON'T JUST REFER TO ONE AREA OF THE STATE OF
NEW YORK AND THAT IF THIS LEGISLATION MOVES FORWARD, THAT AREAS THAT
MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND I REPRESENT WILL ALSO BE CONSIDERED FOR
SOME OF THE MONEY.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I -- I THINK YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CORRECT. I MEAN, I KNOW SOME PEOPLE PERCEIVE A DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITY AS BEING, YOU KNOW, IN THE HEART OF THE CITY OR SOMETHING
NOT -- THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT'S DEFINED. AND I WILL REFER YOU TO - I DON'T
HAVE THE WORDS HERE, BUT I HAVE THE -- THE CITATION - IN THE
ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, SECTION 75-0101, IT'S DEFINED, SO I
WOULD URGE YOU TO LOOK IT UP AND I'M SURE THAT ONCE YOU READ THAT, IT
WOULD SATISFY YOU.
MR. TAGUE: WELL, I APPRECIATE THAT. HAVE ANY
ACTUAL VIOLATIONS BEEN DETERMINED BY ANY OF THE FOLKS THAT ARE IN
BUSINESS NOW? HAVE THERE BEEN ANY VIOLATIONS DETERMINED. AND IF
THIS LEGISLATION GOES THROUGH THEY WILL BE ASSESSED FOR THOSE VIOLATIONS?
MR. DINOWITZ: THIS LEGISLATION IS NOT ABOUT
VIOLATIONS. THIS LEGISLATION IS ABOUT DETERMINING A PROPORTIONATE OF
SHARE OF LIABILITY TO THE WORST POLLUTERS AND THEN USING THE FUNDS TO HELP
REPAIR SOME OF THE DAMAGE THAT'S BEEN CAUSED BY CLIMATE CHANGE.
MR. TAGUE: THAT'S RIGHT, I FORGOT. I REMEMBER YOU
MENTIONED A COUPLE TIMES TONIGHT THAT YOU'RE ALL ABOUT CAPITALISM, I
HAD FORGOT EARLIER, BUT NOW I REMEMBER YOU MENTIONING IT.
MR. DINOWITZ: ALL ABOUT IT.
MR. TAGUE: YES. IS ANY MONEY GOING TO BE USED
FOR REMEDIATION OF ANY OF THESE -- WHERE ANY OF THESE COMPANIES ARE
LOCATED?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE PART OF
WHAT THESE -- IS DETERMINED BY THE AGENCIES, BUT THIS IS ABOUT LIKE
MITIGATION. IT'S ABOUT ADDRESSING THE DAMAGE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN
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CAUSED.
MR. TAGUE: WILL ANY OF THESE COMPANIES HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY -- YOU KNOW, ARE THEY GOING TO BE OFFERED LEGAL DUE
PROCESS TO CHALLENGE?
MR. DINOWITZ: OF COURSE. EVERYBODY GETS DUE
PROCESS.
MR. TAGUE: OKAY. I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT PRETTY
MUCH WRAPS IT UP, SIR. I'M GOING TO BE COMING OVER FOR MY YORK
PEPPERMINT PATTIE AND I APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.
MR. DINOWITZ: OKAY.
MR. TAGUE: TO MY FELLOW CAPITALIST, ALWAYS A
PLEASURE TO TALK TO YOU. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
MR. RA.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES, I WILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. RA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. SO I HAVE A FEW
QUESTIONS AND I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN SPOKEN ABOUT A LITTLE BIT, BUT JUST
GENERALLY IN TERMS OF HOW WE'RE GOING ABOUT THIS. WE'RE LOOKING BACK
TO A TIME PERIOD THAT BEGAN OVER 20 YEARS AGO, CORRECT?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
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MR. RA: AND APPORTIONING TO THESE ENTITIES SOME
SHARE OF A SUM OF MONEY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY INTO. NOW,
WE HAVE SOME FULL INSTANCES OF THINGS THAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO IN RECENT
YEARS IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AREAS THAT HAVE NOT WORKED OUT FOR US. IN
PARTICULAR, WE HAD THE -- THE OPIOID - I FORGET WHAT YOU CALLED IT - YOU
KNOW, THAT FUND THAT -- THAT WE HAD AND THE STATE WAS ACTUALLY -- HAS
BEEN IN COURT EVEN RECENTLY AND MAY HAVE TO PAY BACK SOME SUM OF
MONEY BECAUSE WE WERE LOOKING BACK, AND THAT WAS ONLY LOOKING BACK
A COUPLE YEARS, WE'RE TALKING 20-PLUS YEARS. SO WHY ARE YOU CONFIDENT
THAT SOME OF THOSE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES THAT CAME UP IN THAT AND COME
UP WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO, AFTER THE FACT, BASICALLY PUT A PENALTY ON -- ON
A -- ON A CORPORATION OR -- OR AN ENTITY ISN'T GOING TO BE A PROBLEM HERE?
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M CONFIDENT BECAUSE I THINK THIS
IS A WELL-THOUGHT-OUT AND WELL-STRUCTURED PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND I'M
-- I'M QUITE CONFIDENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET THE RESULTS THAT WE'RE
HOPING FOR IN ORDER TO ALLEVIATE THE COSTS TO OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.
MR. RA: OKAY. BUT I -- I THINK SOME OF THESE
CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS, WE CAN DEBATE WHETHER IT'S A GOOD IDEA OR
NOT ALL DAY LONG, WHETHER WHAT WE THINK THE IMPACTS ARE ON THE
CLIMATE, ALL OF THESE THINGS, BUT A LOT OF THESE THINGS ARE REALLY JUST
PROCEDURAL OBSTACLES AND PIECES THAT ARE IN OUR FEDERAL CONSTITUTION
THAT STOP US FROM GOING BACKWARDS AND ASSESSING BASICALLY FINES ON AN
INDUSTRY FOR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED 20-PLUS YEARS AGO.
MR. DINOWITZ: NAH, I DON'T LOOK AT IT THAT WAY.
THIS IS MODELED AFTER THE -- THE STATE SUPERFUND LAW WHICH HAS BEEN A
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SMASHING SUCCESS AND THERE'S EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THIS LIKEWISE
WILL BE A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS.
MR. RA: OKAY. SO -- SO YOU MENTIONED THE STATE
SUPERFUND LAW. NOW AM I CORRECT THAT THE STANDARD OF LIABILITY WE'RE
UTILIZING HERE IS DIFFERENT THAN IT IS IN THE STATE SUPERFUND LAW IN TERMS
OF BASICALLY STRICT LIABILITY FOR -- FOR THESE ENTITIES?
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T THINK THE STANDARD IS
DIFFERENT.
MR. RA: WELL, DO WE NOT ALLOW THAT, YOU KNOW,
THOSE ENTITIES PAY FOR PERHAPS THEIR PORTION BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE
LOOKING AT A VERY SPECIFIC SET OF, I'LL CALL THEM ACTORS IN -- IN THIS
CONTEXT. WHILE THERE'S ANY NUMBER OF OTHER ENTITIES THAT HAVE, YOU
KNOW, CONSUMED THIS ENERGY AND BEEN PART OF THIS, WEREN'T NECESSARILY
PRODUCERS BUT HAVE CONSUMED THAT THE ENERGY OVER THE YEARS THAT HAS
CONTRIBUTED AT LEAST BASED ON YOUR THEORY HERE TO THIS IMPACT ON OUR
ENVIRONMENT.
MR. DINOWITZ: THE DEC, THEY ASSESS LIABILITY,
AND WE'RE DOING IT IN A WAY THAT'S PROPORTIONATE AND TO THE WORST ACTORS,
NOT EVERYBODY, NOT EVERY CORPORATION, BUT THE WORST ONES, THE ONES THAT
HAVE CONTRIBUTED THE MOST AND THEN JUST DIVVYING IT UP BASED ON THOSE
PROPORTIONS.
MR. RA: OKAY. NOW, THOSE PARTICULAR ACTORS, AGAIN,
WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE'RE GOING BACK, THE LENGTH OF TIME
THAT WE'RE GOING BACK. WHAT -- WHAT HAPPENS IF WE LOOK AT THAT TIME
FRAME AND THERE'S AN ACTOR THAT IS NO LONGER IN BUSINESS?
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M SURE DEC CAN FIGURE THAT OUT.
IF THEY'RE NOT HERE ANYMORE IT'S GOING TO BE PRETTY HARD TO ASSESS
SOMETHING AGAINST THEM I WOULD IMAGINE, BUT...
MR. RA: OKAY, SO THEN --
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M NOT SURE THAT WE HAVE AN
EXAMPLE OF THAT, THOUGH.
MR. RA: BUT WOULD -- SO IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, DOES
THAT MEAN THAT SOME OTHER ACTORS IS GOING TO PAY A LARGER PORTION
BECAUSE SOMEBODY CEASED TO EXIST?
MR. DINOWITZ: WE'RE GOING TO INCLUDE THE -- THE
COMPANIES THAT PRODUCED MORE THAN A BILLION TONS OF GHGS AND DIVIDE
IT PROPORTIONATELY. IF THERE'S A COMPANY THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE,
THEN THEY DON'T EXIST ANYMORE.
MR. RA: OKAY. WHAT -- WHAT IF THERE HAS BEEN A
CHANGE IN CORPORATE OWNERSHIP? IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR, YOU KNOW,
COMPANIES IN THIS INDUSTRY TO PURCHASE ONE ANOTHER AND -- AND THINGS
OF THAT NATURE. WHAT IF THERE'S A CORPORATE OWNER WHO NOW OWNS AN
ENTITY THAT WE MAY IDENTIFY UNDER THIS, BUT THEY DIDN'T OWN IT DURING
THIS TIME FRAME?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, DEC WOULD HAVE TO FIGURE
THAT OUT. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. THEY -- IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE
REINVENTING THE WHEEL HERE, THIS IS STUFF THAT THEY DO.
MR. RA: WELL, I -- I -- I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY
THIS IS STUFF THAT THEY DO. WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME ANALOGIES TO
SOME EXISTING LAWS, BUT I THINK THIS IS DIFFERENT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, WE HAVE A SUPERFUND AND
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DO.
MR. RA: WELL, I -- I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT
WE'RE -- WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO HERE, I -- I THINK IT IS A DIFFERENT
CONTEXT. WE'RE -- WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT A VERY SPECIFIC SUBSET. NOW,
YOU KNOW, LET ME -- LET ME ASK YOU THIS: WHEN WE LOOK AT ALL OF THESE
ENERGY PRODUCERS, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE ESSENTIALLY PRODUCING A
PRODUCT THAT WAS IN NEED BY NEW YORKERS. I ASSUME WHEREVER YOU
LIVE CURRENTLY, WHEREVER YOU GREW UP, I KNOW THIS TIME FRAME GOES
BACK TO WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE. YOU KNOW, YOU HAD HEAT, RIGHT, IN
WHEREVER YOU'VE LIVED OVER -- OVER THAT TIME PERIOD?
MR. DINOWITZ: CAN I BE HONEST WITH YOU? I HAVE
THE HEAT TURNED OFF IN MY APARTMENT, I CAN'T STAND IT. BUT WE HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO USE IT IF WE SO CHOOSE.
MR. RA: OKAY. PROBABLY COOKING APPLIANCES, RIGHT?
MR. DINOWITZ: THAT GETS SOME USE.
MR. RA: DID YOU DRIVE A CAR AT ANY POINT DURING THIS
TIME PERIOD THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT?
MR. DINOWITZ: I GOT MY LICENSE AT A PRETTY
ADVANCED AGE, BUT I THINK DURING THIS TIME PERIOD I HAD A LICENSE, THAT'S
-- YES.
MR. RA: OKAY. SO I MEAN, THEORETICALLY YOU, ME,
ANYBODY HAVE SOME LEVEL THAT WE HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, HAVE
WE NOT? IT'S OBVIOUSLY SMALLER THAN -- THAN A MAJOR CORPORATION, BUT
YOU KNOW, WE ALL CONSUME ENERGY, MAYBE DRIVE CARS, DO OTHER THINGS
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THAT HAVE HAD SOME CONTRIBUTION TO GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I WASN'T MAKING BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS WHEN I WAS DRIVING MY CAR. THESE COMPANIES WERE MAKING
BILLIONS OR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS AS THE CASE MAY BE OF PROFITS DURING
THIS TIME PERIOD. THE PEOPLE WHO DRIVE A CAR, THAT'S NOT THE SAME THING
ANY MORE THAN AS I MENTIONED EARLIER. THE PERSON WHO SMOKED THE
CIGARETTE IS NOT SAME AS THE COMPANY THAT PRODUCED THE CANCER-CAUSING
PRODUCT.
MR. RA: AGREED, IT'S NOT THE SAME, BUT THE POINT
BEING THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT IN ANY LEGAL CONTEXT LIABILITY FOR THINGS,
OFTENTIMES WE LOOK AT APPORTIONING OUT THAT LIABILITY. SO THERE ARE --
THERE ARE PLENTY OF, YOU KNOW, LEGAL THEORIES AND SITUATIONS WHERE
THERE MAY BE, YOU KNOW, A TORT THAT -- THAT IS, YOU KNOW, BROUGHT
FORWARD IN A -- IN A COURT OF LAW AND THERE MAY BE AN ENTITY THAT'S 80
PERCENT RESPONSIBLE OR 90 PERCENT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENED, BUT
THERE COULD BE SOME OTHER LEVEL OF CAUSATION OF 10 PERCENT, AND WE
MIGHT HOLD THAT ENTITY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT 10 PERCENT. I -- I THINK THAT
WE'RE PICKING A VERY SPECIFIC SET OF COMPANIES AND HOLDING THEM
RESPONSIBLE WHERE THERE -- OR ANY NUMBER OF BUSINESSES, INDIVIDUALS,
THEY WERE PRODUCING THIS PRODUCT BECAUSE IT WAS IN DEMAND FOR THE
PEOPLE OF THIS STATE AND THE BUSINESSES OF THIS STATE SO THAT THEY COULD
OPERATE, SO THAT WE COULD HEAT OUR HOMES, SO THAT WE COULD GET AROUND
TO OUR JOBS AND SCHOOL AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
MR. DINOWITZ: YOU KNOW, CIGARETTES WERE IN
DEMAND, GE PAID A LOT OF MONEY NOT SO MANY YEARS AGO, THEIR PRODUCTS
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WERE IN DEMAND, A LOT OF THINGS WERE IN DEMAND; THE PEOPLE WHO
CONSUMED THOSE PRODUCTS WERE NOT MAKING MONEY, IT WAS THE
COMPANIES THAT WERE MAKING MONEY. AND THEY WERE MAKING MONEY AT
A TIME WHEN THEY WERE FULLY AWARE OF THE DAMAGE THAT THEY WERE
CAUSING AND NONETHELESS, CONTINUED TO DO IT AND CONTINUED TO MAYBE
DENY IT, MAYBE NOT LET ANYBODY KNOW ABOUT IT, BUT THEY WERE MAKING
LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY; IN FACT, THEY STILL ARE. AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO
RECOVER FROM THE DAMAGE THAT THEY HAD A MAJOR HAND IN CAUSING, AND
THE SMALL -- RELATIVELY SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THIS BILL CALLS FOR
PALES IN COMPARISON TO THEIR PROFITS, BUT THE DAMAGE THEY CAUSED IS NOT
ONLY ONGOING, IT'S GETTING WORSE AS TIME GOES ON AND -- BUT THE DAMAGE
THAT WAS CAUSED IN THE PAST, WE NEED TO TRY TO ADDRESS THAT BECAUSE WE
-- YOU'RE FROM LONG ISLAND, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PART OF LONG ISLAND, BUT
I'M SURE THAT YOUR COMMUNITY HAS HAD -- HAS SUFFERED THROUGH SOME OF
THESE PROBLEMS AS MANY OTHER COMMUNITIES ON LONG ISLAND AND PEOPLE
THROUGHOUT THE STATE. SO THE BILL SIMPLY TRIES TO HELP OUR LOCAL
COMMUNITIES SO THAT THEY DON'T GET STUCK WITH THE ENTIRE BILL AND I THINK
THE BENEFICIARIES ARE THE -- ARE THE LOCAL TAXPAYERS.
MR. RA: THANK YOU. SO JUST BECAUSE I KNOW TIME IS
TICKING OFF HERE. NOW YOU SAID AND YOU'VE USED THE ANALOGY OF
CIGARETTES, AND I UNDERSTAND THERE IS OBVIOUSLY A PAST IN THAT AND WE
CAN TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT OBVIOUSLY THERE HAVE BEEN LAWSUITS AND
COURT OF LAWS FINDING LIABILITY AS OPPOSED TO US BASICALLY SITTING HERE
AND BASIC -- WE'RE -- WE'RE ACTING AS THE JUDGE, THE JURY AND, YOU KNOW,
LEVYING WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE PAYING, ALL OF THAT, WE'RE DOING THAT
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FOR THEM. WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY EVALUATING THE LEVEL OF BLAME
THEY HAVE OR THEIR LIABILITY. WE'RE -- WE'RE DECIDING THAT BY -- BY
LEGISLATION. BUT I -- I -- I WOULD SAY, TOO, THE REASON WHY I THINK THAT
CIGARETTES AREN'T A GREAT ANALOGY TO THIS, YEAH, THERE WAS A DEMAND AND
PEOPLE WOULD PURCHASE CIGARETTES AND THEY STILL DO, AND I'LL BE HONEST, I
THINK -- I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO BE CRAZY TODAY TO BE SOMEBODY BUYING
AND -- AND SMOKING CIGARETTES KNOWING EVERYTHING WE KNOW AND
EVERYTHING WE'VE KNOWN FOR YEARS ABOUT THEM, BUT CIGARETTES DON'T HEAT
PEOPLE'S HOMES IN THE WINTER, STOP -- PREVENTING THEM, YOU KNOW, FROM
DYING OF THE COLD. CIGARETTES AREN'T, YOU KNOW, WHAT PEOPLE NEED SO
THEY CAN GET TO WORK EVERYDAY IN A -- IN A CAR. SO I -- I DON'T THINK THAT
IS A VERY GOOD ANALOGY TO WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.
MR. DINOWITZ: YOU'RE RIGHT, THE DAMAGE CAUSED
BY THESE COMPANIES WHILE MAYBE NOT AS SPECIFICALLY INDIVIDUAL AS THE
DAMAGE CAUSED BY CIGARETTES HAS CAUSED SOCIETY AS A WHOLE INCREDIBLE
DAMAGE, INCREDIBLE DAMAGE, AS EVIDENCED BY THE CLIMATE CHANGE THAT IS
A DIRECT RESULT OF THEIR ACTIONS AND THAT CONTINUE TO GET WORSE AND
WORSE. SO I -- I JUST THINK THAT THERE ARE TWO SIDES HERE. EITHER ON THE
SIDE OF OUR CONSTITUENTS OR ON THE SIDE OF THE BIG OIL COMPANIES. I DON'T
THINK THERE'S ANY IN BETWEEN.
MR. RA: I WOULD -- I WOULD VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE
WITH THAT BECAUSE OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE GOING TO END UP PAYING FOR THIS.
THEY'RE GOING TO PAY IN HIGHER ENERGY COSTS. THEY'RE GOING TO --
THEY'RE GOING TO -- I -- I -- I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. THANK YOU FOR
ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. DINOWITZ: THEY'RE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT.
MR. RA: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ON THE BILL.
MR. RA: SO QUICKLY, YOU KNOW, NUMBER ONE FROM A
LEGAL STANDPOINT, THE IDEA THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK BASICALLY 25
YEARS AND TRY TO PROPORTION THIS OUT. WE CAN TALK ABOUT DEC KNOWS
HOW TO DO THIS, ALL OF THESE THINGS. ON THE IDEA THAT WE CAN ACCURATELY
APPORTION THIS IS OUT AMONGST THESE COMPANIES FROM -- FROM 25 YEARS
AGO I THINK IS RIDICULOUS. I DON'T THINK WE CAN ACCURATELY DO THAT. I
THINK THERE ARE SERIOUS CONSTITUTIONAL OBSTACLES COMING IN AFTER THE FACT
AND PUTTING A FINE FOR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED 25 YEARS AGO. I THINK
THAT ULTIMATELY OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE GOING TO BEAR THE COST OF THIS IN THE
RATES OF HEATING THEIR HOMES, AT THE GAS PUMP, ALL OF THOSE THINGS. AND
-- AND I THINK THAT WHILE THIS STATE IS TRYING TO DO THINGS TO GET GREENER,
AND I'VE SUPPORTED MANY IMITATIVES TO DO SO AND TRY TO HAVE CLEANER
ENERGY, WE JUST CONTINUE TO HAVE THESE BLINDERS ON, AND WE DON'T THINK
ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BUT JUST FULL SPEED AHEAD, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING
TO DO, AND WE DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANY OF THE OTHER IMPACTS OF IT. WE --
WE DON'T THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT -- THAT REALLY SOME OF THESE THINGS
THAT WE THINK ARE SO GREEN AREN'T SO GREEN. I KNOW MANY OF MY
COLLEAGUES TALK ABOUT IT OFTEN AND WE MAY ROLL OUR EYES, BUT AT THE END
OF THE DAY IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACTS. AND -- AND THE FACTS ARE THAT WE
ARE GOING FULL SPEED AHEAD TO SOMETHING IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS THAT
IS GOING TO COST OUR CONSTITUENTS LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY IN THE THINGS
THAT THEY NEED TO SURVIVE EVERY SINGLE DAY. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
MR. GANDOLFO.
MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. DINOWITZ?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES, I WILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. GANDOLFO: SO ONE THING THAT I KEEP HEARING
COME UP DURING THIS DEBATE IS THAT THESE COMPANIES SHOULDN'T HAVE DID
WHAT THEY DID; IS THAT CORRECT? WHAT -- WHAT ARE YOU ALLEGING THAT
THESE COMPANIES DID TO DESERVE THIS FINE RETROACTIVELY?
MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S -- I WOULDN'T CALL IT
RETROACTIVELY, NOR WOULD I CALL IT A FINE, BUT IN ANY CASE, WHAT THEY DID
WAS THEY CAUSED SEVERE DAMAGE TO OUR ENVIRONMENT AND THEY KNEW
THEY WERE CAUSING DAMAGE AND THEY STILL CONTINUED TO DO IT FOR THE SOLE
PURPOSE OF MAKING MASSIVE PROFITS, THAT'S WHAT THEY ALLEGEDLY DID.
MR. GANDOLFO: SO WHAT COULD THEY HAVE DONE
DIFFERENTLY TO NOT CAUSE THAT DAMAGE? SHOULD THEY HAVE JUST STOPPED
PRODUCING THE ENERGY THEY WERE PRODUCING?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, IF -- IF IT WERE UP TO ME,
THESE COMPANIES WOULD HAVE ACTED AT A MUCH EARLIER STAGE TO PRODUCE
MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY-FRIENDLY ENERGY, I DON'T KNOW, SOLAR POWER AS AN
EXAMPLE, BUT INSTEAD WHAT SOME OF THE COMPANIES DID OVER THE YEARS
WAS THEY MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO PRODUCE CLEAN ENERGY, AND THEY ALSO
GOT ALL KINDS OF TAX BENEFITS, I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY MANAGED THAT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. GANDOLFO: WELL, HOW IS IT THEIR FAULT THAT
THEY RECEIVED SO-CALLED TAX BENEFITS? HOW DOES THAT INCREASE THEIR
LIABILITY?
MR. DINOWITZ: I'M PRETTY SURE THEY DON'T GET TAX
BENEFITS WITHOUT ASKING FOR IT, BUT IN EITHER CASE THEY -- THEY THOUGHT IT
WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO MAKE HUGE PROFITS RATHER THAN FIND A BETTER WAY,
BUT THEY KNEW THEY WERE CAUSING DAMAGE AND THEY HID IT, I BELIEVE,
AND THEY DENIED IT, I BELIEVE, AND THEY CONTINUED DOING IT. AND
ANYBODY - I'M SORRY IF I'M OFFENDING ANYBODY HERE - BUT ANYBODY WHO
BELIEVES THAT THESE COMPANIES DIDN'T CAUSE SEVERE DAMAGE TO OUR
ENVIRONMENT AND DIDN'T CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE IS JUST NOT PAYING
ATTENTION.
MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT, BUT THESE COMPANIES DIDN'T
INVENT THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE THAT THE FUEL POWERS. THE
ENERGY WAS IN DEMAND, THIS IS THE KIND OF ENERGY THAT MOST OF US USE,
MOST COMPANIES USE. HOW COME A BIG COMPANY, LET'S SAY LIKE
AMAZON, WHICH IS SHIPPING THINGS ALL OVER THE WORLD, TRUCKING THINGS
ALL OVER THE PLACE, ACTUALLY COMBUSTING THE FUEL THAT IS BEING PRODUCED,
WHY WOULDN'T THEY BE HELD LIABLE FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS?
MR. DINOWITZ: AGAIN, WE ARE NOT PENALIZING
DRIVING -- YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO DRIVE CARS OR TRUCKS AS THE CASE MAY
BE. WE ARE ASSESSING SOME OF THE COMPANIES THAT HAVE CONTRIBUTED
SIGNIFICANTLY TO CLIMATE CHANGE.
MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT, OKAY. SO LET'S GO BACK.
LET'S SAY THAT IN THE YEAR 2000, THESE LARGE COMPANIES JUST STOPPED
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PRODUCING THE FOSSIL FUELS. WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A RESULT? THEY
WOULD HAVE AVOIDED THIS RETROACTIVE ASSESSMENT, FINE, BUT WOULD THAT
NOT HAVE BEEN CATASTROPHIC FOR THE ENTIRE ECONOMY?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, PERHAPS THEY MIGHT HAVE
CONSIDERED FINDING A BETTER WAY, A MORE EFFICIENT WAY, A MORE
ENVIRONMENTALLY-FRIENDLY WAY, BUT THE FACT IS THEY DIDN'T STOP AND THEY
CONTINUED AND THEY TRIED -- I THINK SOME OF THESE COMPANIES TRIED TO
SUPPRESS ANY DEVELOPMENT THAT DOESN'T FIT IN WITH THE TYPE OF PRODUCT
THAT THEY HAVE.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO LET'S SAY THIS GOES BACK
TO 2000, ACCORDING TO EXXON MOBIL, THEY STARTED INVESTING -- I THINK
THEY INVESTED $15 BILLION SINCE THE YEAR 2000 IN GREEN TECHNOLOGIES.
SHOULD THAT LESSEN THEIR LIABILITY SINCE THEY WERE CLEARLY LOOKING FOR
ALTERNATIVE SOURCES OF ENERGY THAT WERE CLEANER BURNING?
MR. DINOWITZ: OH, I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE
INVESTED A LOT MORE THAN THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR PROFITS --
MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT, BUT THEY TOOK AN ACTION TO
TRY TO GET TO CLEANER ENERGY SOURCES BACK IN 2000.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, THAT SOUNDS RELATIVELY TOKEN
TO ME. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR PROFITS WERE IN THE YEAR 2000, I DON'T
HAVE THE DATA ON THAT. BUT I DO KNOW WHAT THEIR PROFITS ARE IN MORE
RECENT YEARS. AND CONSIDERING ALL THAT, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD IF
THEY WERE INVESTING A LOT OF MONEY INTO ALTERNATIVES TO THE TYPE OF
PRODUCT -- DAMAGING PRODUCT THAT THEY HAVE. BUT THE PROBLEM IS IS THAT
GENERALLY, AS FAR AS I KNOW, FAVOR PROFITS OVER -- AND NOTHING WRONG
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WITH MAKING PROFITS, BY THE WAY, BUT THERE'S GOT TO BE A LIMIT, THEY
FAVOR THE PROFITS OVER THE WELFARE OF THE PEOPLE IN THE -- IN THE STATE
AND IN THIS COUNTRY.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO WHAT FUEL SOURCE DID
WE HAVE ENOUGH ABUNDANCE OF BACK IN 2000 THAT COULD HAVE REPLACED
THE FUEL THAT THEY WERE EXTRACTING, REFINING?
MR. DINOWITZ: AGAIN, THAT -- THAT -- THAT'S JUST NOT
WHAT THIS -- THIS BILL IS.
MR. GANDOLFO: BUT THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY
COULD HAVE AVOIDED LIABILITY.
MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S NOT LIABILITY. IT'S -- WE'RE
ASSESSING THEM.
MR. GANDOLFO: RESPONSIBILITY, THE TERM IN THE
BILL IS THEY ARE LARGELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE --
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, RESPONSIBILITY IS A DIFFERENT
WORD THAN LIABILITY, A VERY DIFFERENT WORD LEGALLY, AND OTHERWISE. AND
WE'RE TRYING TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE COSTS THAT ALL OF US AS INDIVIDUALS
OR AS COMMUNITIES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY AS A RESULT OF THE DAMAGE
THAT THEY CAUSED.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. BUT I DON'T SEE HOW
THERE'S ANY ALTERNATIVE THAT THEY COULD HAVE TAKEN THAT WOULD HAVE
PREVENTED THEM TODAY FROM BEING ASSESSED WITH THIS -- ASSESSED WITH
THIS FINE, TAX, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I MEAN, I GUESS WE'LL NEVER
KNOW, WE'RE NOT IN THE POSITION TO KNOW. WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MONEY THEY'RE PUTTING INTO RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. WE DON'T KNOW
WHAT THEY WERE DOING TO LOOK FOR ALTERNATIVE SOURCES OF ENERGY.
MR. GANDOLFO: WELL, WOULD IT HAVE MATTERED
EITHER WAY EVEN IF THEY WERE INVESTING, LET'S SAY, $50 BILLION A YEAR TO
GREEN ENERGY SOURCES BUT JUST COULDN'T GET THERE TO -- TO MEET THE
DEMAND? WOULD THEY STILL BE -- WOULD THEY STILL HAVE THIS
RESPONSIBILITY? HOW COME WE DIDN'T START PASSING CLEAN ENERGY TAX
CREDIT SOONER THAN WE DID? ARE WE PARTIALLY RELIABLE -- RESPONSIBLE
HERE FOR CLIMATE CHANGE? I MEAN --
MR. DINOWITZ: OH, AS I ALLUDED TO EARLIER, THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE MANY, MANY YEARS AGO ON A --
ON A NATIONAL LEVEL, BOTH IN DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN
ADMINISTRATIONS, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S -- THAT'S NOT THIS. WE ARE HERE TALKING
ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION WHICH APPORTIONS
RESPONSIBILITY TO COMPANIES THAT EXCEED THE CERTAIN LEVEL OF -- OF
DAMAGE BASED ON THE NUMBER THAT I SAID NUMEROUS TIMES ALREADY
TODAY. AND IT'S A VERY SENSIBLE, VERY FAIR, VERY EVEN-HANDED WAY OF
DOING THINGS. IT DOESN'T CHARGE THE COMPANIES OR ASSESS THE COMPANIES
AN INTOLERABLE AMOUNT OF -- OF MONEY, BUT IT'LL HELP US IN NEW YORK TO
DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING. AND -- AND NO ONE'S
HERE GOING TO DENY THAT THE PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN SEVERE AND IN SOME
COMMUNITIES IT'S BEEN CATASTROPHIC.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. AND JUST GOING BACK TO A
POINT ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES MADE BEFORE. SO THE LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL,
WE'RE DECLARING THESE COMPANIES RESPONSIBLE FOR CLIMATE CHANGE FROM
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE YEARS 2000 TO 2018. IS THE IMPLICATION THERE THAT THE EMISSIONS
FROM 2000 TO 2018 CAUSED ALL OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO.
MR. GANDOLFO: WHY WOULDN'T THEY BE ASSESSED
EARLIER ON?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. THE REASON THAT WAS CHOSEN,
IT WAS I GUESS A REPRESENTATIVE PERIOD OF TIME, WE CAN'T REALLY GO BACK
30 YEARS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF RECORDS EXIST GOING FARTHER BACK
THAN -- THAN THIS, BUT IT'S A REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME. IT'S A LONG PERIOD
OF TIME. SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE LOOKED AT ONE YEAR, THAT ONE YEAR MIGHT
HAVE BEEN -- IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN ANOMALY WHERE ONE COMPANY, YOU
KNOW, DID MUCH MORE AND ONE COMPANY DID MUCH LESS, BUT LOOKING AT
IT OVER A 19-YEAR PERIOD, IT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT ALL THE
COMPANIES IN A REALLY EVEN-HANDED WAY BECAUSE IF THERE WERE
DIFFERENCES FROM YEAR TO YEAR WITHIN A COMPANY, IT'LL AVERAGE OUT. SO
-- AND IT'S A RELATIVELY RECENT PERIOD OF TIME. IT ALSO IS A PERIOD OF TIME
WHEN THERE WERE RECORDS THAT WERE EASILY ACCESSIBLE TO MAKE THESE
DETERMINATIONS.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO WITH THIS LEGISLATION,
WE'RE DECLARING THEM RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. WE'RE PUTTING THAT IN STATUTE,
AND SOMETHING ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES ALLUDED TO BEFORE WAS IF WE'RE
DECLARING THEM RESPONSIBLE VIA LEGISLATION, ORDERING THEM TO PAY THIS
ASSESSMENT, WHY -- COULD -- COULD THAT OPEN THEM UP TO ANY LAWSUIT
FROM A HOMEOWNER WHO HAD THEIR HOUSE FLOODED OR THEIR HOME
DESTROYED, BECAUSE NOW IN STATUTE WE'RE SAYING THESE ARE THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
COMPANIES RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CLIMATE CHANGE THAT CAUSED, YOU KNOW,
THE HIGH -- THE HIGH WATER TABLE THAT FLOODED OUT YOUR BASEMENT AND
WE'RE PUTTING IT IN STATUTE.
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T THINK WE'RE HOLDING THEM
RESPONSIBLE IN A LEGAL LIABILITY SENSE. WE ARE -- WE ARE APPORTIONING
RESPONSIBILITY DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME BASED ON THE NUMBERS THAT WE
HAVE. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN THAT EVERY INDIVIDUAL
HOMEOWNER IS GOING TO START SUING THESE COMPANIES BASED ON THIS
LEGISLATION.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DAMAGE?
MR. DINOWITZ: THERE MAY BE OTHER WAYS THAT A
COMPANY WANTS TO SUE SOMEBODY, BUT THIS WOULD NOT BE THAT.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. THANK YOU FOR INDULGING
ME.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: ON THE BILL.
MR. GANDOLFO: MR. SPEAKER, THIS BILL IS STRICTLY
AIMED AT PUNISHING COMPANIES FOR LEGAL ACTIONS TAKEN IN THE PAST, THEY
WERE ACTING WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THE LAW TO PRODUCE THE ENERGY THAT
OUR ENTIRE ECONOMY NEEDS, THAT CONSUMERS NEED, THAT GOVERNMENTS
NEED, THAT LARGE ORGANIZATIONS AND BUSINESSES NEED. TO GO BACK IN
TIME AND ESSENTIALLY FINE THEM FOR PRODUCING THE ENERGY THAT WAS IN
DEMAND, AND AS WE HEARD FROM THE SPONSOR, THERE'S NOTHING THEY REALLY
COULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY TO AVOIDED BEING FINED, ASSESSED, TAXED
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, TODAY. THERE WAS NO ABUNDANT
ALTERNATIVE FOR THEM TO HAVE CHANGED THEIR COURSE OF ACTION TO AVOID
WHERE WE ARE TODAY. IN THE END, THE ASSESSMENT, THE TAX, THE FINE, THAT'S
GOING TO RESULT IN HIGHER ENERGY COSTS FOR OUR CONSTITUENTS AT A TIME
WHERE OUR ENERGY COSTS ARE ALREADY UP. IT'S JUST THE WRONG THING AT THE
WRONG TIME. I'M GOING TO BE VOTING NO AND I URGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO
DO THE SAME. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: A PARTY VOTE
HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. FOR THE REASONS
THAT HAVE BEEN EXPLAINED OVER THE LAST THREE HOURS, THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THOSE WHO
SUPPORT IT CAN WAKE UP AND VOTE FOR IT.
(LAUGHTER)
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GOING TO BE IN FAVOR
OF THIS ENVIRONMENTALLY-FRIENDLY PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE
MAY BE SOME THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL
FREE TO CAST THEIR VOTES AT THEIR SEATS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. NOVAKHOV TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SO THE EARTH IS ABOUT 4.5 BILLION YEARS OLD, AND THE
WEATHER MONITORING IS ABOUT 150 YEARS OLD. WE'RE MAKING DECISIONS
BASED ON A MICRO FRACTION OF TIME. HOWEVER, SCIENTISTS HAVE PROVEN
THAT SUDDEN CLIMATE CHANGES HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED IN EARTH'S HISTORY,
WHICH HAD, OF COURSE, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.
AND SPEAKING ABOUT THE REVOLUTION, THIS LEGISLATION REMINDS ME OF
EXPROPRIATION IN RUSSIA IN 1917. THE SOCIALISTS TOOK JUST A LITTLE BIT OF
MONEY AND THEN JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE OF MONEY AND THEN THEY
NATIONALIZED THESE COMPANIES. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED IN RUSSIA 1917.
MR. SPEAKER, THOSE WHO SUPPORT THIS BILL ARE TRYING TO
MAKE MONEY BY PUNISHING THOSE WHO ALLEGEDLY DAMAGED THE CLIMATE
BY COMPLETELY KILLING THE BUSINESS CLIMATE. NO COMPANY WANTS TO DO
BUSINESS WITH THE RISK OF EXPROPRIATION AND IN THE LONG RUN, OUR STATE
WILL LOSE BOTH, MONEY AND REPUTATION. I'M VOTING NO ON THIS SOCIALISTIC
BILL. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. NOVAKHOV
IN THE NEGATIVE.
MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. AFTER SEVERAL
HOURS OF DEBATE, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THERE ARE FACTS THAT HAVE NOT YET
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
BEEN DISCLOSED OR DISCUSSED, BUT I SHARE MY COLLEAGUE'S CONCERNS. SO
THIS BILL STARTS OUT AND IMPOSES LIABILITY, AND THE BILL ITSELF SAYS THAT
THESE ASSESSMENTS OF 3 BILLION A YEAR, SHALL BE, QUOTE, APPLIED TO A
RESPONSIBLE PARTY, QUOTE, WITHOUT REGARD TO FAULT. IT'S RIGHT IN THE
LEGISLATION. SO HERE'S THE LEGISLATION SAYING, HEY, THESE COMPANIES
DON'T HAVE ANY FAULT, BUT WE'RE GOING TO CHARGE THEM 3 BILLION A YEAR.
WELL, WE TRIED TO SCHEME BACK ABOUT SEVEN YEARS AGO WITH THE OPIOID
COMPANIES. THE STATE SAID, HEY, WE HAVE THIS OPIOID CRISIS, IT WAS
BECAUSE THE OPIOID COMPANIES SO WE'RE GOING TO BILL THEM RETROACTIVELY
BASED ON THE VOLUME OF PRODUCT THEY SOLD IN NEW YORK STATE. AND
THAT WAS STRUCK DOWN BY A FEDERAL COURT, AND IT'S BEEN STRUCK DOWN BY
STATE COURTS, AND JUST TWO WEEKS AGO, THE STATE COURT ORDERED NEW
YORK STATE TO REFUND 57.4 MILLION TO THE DRUG COMPANIES. AND WHEN
THEY DID, THEY SAID THE SURCHARGES WERE LEVIED AFTER THE FACT AND IT
CLOSED CLASS OF PERSONS WHO WERE DELIBERATELY TARGETED BY THE STATE
AND HAD NO OPPORTUNITY TO ALTER THEIR BEHAVIOR TO AVOID LIABILITY. THAT'S
JUST TWO WEEKS AGO. JUST TWO WEEKS AGO THIS EXACT CONCEPT WAS RULED
UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND THE STATE WAS ORDERED TO SEND BACK MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS. RAISING 3 BILLION A YEAR IS THE EQUIVALENT OF ADDING 40 CENTS A
GALLON FOR EVERY GALLON OF GAS YOU AND YOUR RESIDENTS WILL BUY, THAT'S
WHAT IT MEANS. WE'RE HERE BEING ASKED TO VOTE ON AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL
BILL THAT WILL RAISE ALL OF THE GAS PRICES ACROSS NEW YORK STATE,
SUBSTANTIALLY. IT'S NOT SOMETHING I CAN SUPPORT. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. GOODELL IN
THE NEGATIVE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. TAGUE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN
MY VOTE. TONIGHT, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONVERSATION WITH REGARDS TO
DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES. I WANT TO TELL MY COLLEAGUES AND OTHERS,
LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING, IF THIS BODY AND THE BODY OVER ACROSS THE
HALLWAY CONTINUE ON WITH THESE TYPES OF POLICIES, EVERY COMMUNITY IN
THE STATE OF NEW YORK WILL BE DISADVANTAGED. MR. SPEAKER, I VOTE NO.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. TAGUE IN
THE NEGATIVE.
MR. RA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. SO JUST TO POINT
OUT AGAIN, RIGHT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW THE DEC IS GOING TO HAVE ALL
THIS DATA, INFORMATION, AND THEY'RE GOING TO FIGURE THIS OUT BECAUSE THEY
KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. WHO GAVE OUT THE PERMITS FOR ALL OF THESE
COMPANIES TO OPERATE IN OUR STATE AND PRODUCE THE ENERGY THAT WAS
NEEDED BY NEW YORKERS? THE DEC? SO THEY DECIDED THAT THERE WAS A
NEED FOR WHAT THEY WERE PRODUCING, THAT NEW YORKERS NEEDED, AGAIN,
TO HEAT THEIR HOMES, TO ALLOW THEM TO COOK TO FEED THEIR FAMILIES, AND
NOW WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT THOSE SAME PEOPLE, THOSE SAME SCIENTISTS,
THOSE SAME EXPERTS ARE GOING TO COME AND SAY SHAME ON YOU, YOU DID A
BAD THING, WE'RE GOING TO TELL YOU HOW MUCH WE OWE YOU -- YOU OWE
US. DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME. AND AGAIN, AS MY COLLEAGUE
SAID, AT THE END OF THE DAY ALL OF OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE GOING TO SEE THIS
AT THE PUMP, IN THEIR HOME HEATING BILLS, AT A TIME WHEN WE KNOW NEW
YORKERS ARE STRUGGLING WITH THE COST OF EVERYTHING HAVING GONE UP IN
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
RECENT YEARS. I CAST MY VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. RA IN THE
NEGATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
ON THE MAIN CALENDAR, PAGE 19, RULES REPORT NO.
528, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S00610, AN ACT TO AMEND
THE ELECTION LAW.
(PAUSE)
SENATE NO. S00610, SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL, RULES
REPORT NO. 528 (ASSEMBLY NO. A07243, SIMONE). AN ACT TO AMEND
THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING BOARDS OF ELECTIONS TO
ESTABLISH ABSENTEE BALLOT DROP-OFF LOCATIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. SIMONE, AN
EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. SIMONE: MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
THIS BILL WOULD AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS TO ESTABLISH
ABSENTEE BALLOT DROP BOXES. MANY STATES, ABOUT 33 STATES INCLUDING
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, CURRENTLY AUTHORIZE VOTERS TO RETURN THEIR BALLOTS
TO ELECTION OFFICIALS BY DEPOSITING THEM IN A SECURE DROP BOX, RATHER
THAN MAILING THEM OR BRINGING THEM INTO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS OFFICE.
EVERY ELECTION, WE SEE ABSENTEE BALLOTS BEING VALIDATED FOR ISSUES
RELATED TO MAIL-IN PROCESS, INCLUDING LACK OF APPROPRIATE POSTMARK OR
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
LATE ARRIVAL DUE TO POSTAL BACKLOGS AND DELAYS. BY AUTHORIZING LOCAL
BOARDS OF ELECTIONS TO ESTABLISH SECURE ABSENTEE BALLOT BOXES, THIS BILL
WOULD EMULATE SYSTEMS OF OTHER STATES THAT HAVE SUCCESSFULLY
CONDUCTED VOTE BY MAIL ELECTIONS FOR YEARS BY PROVIDING VOTERS A
CONVENIENT ALTERNATIVE OPTION TO SUBMIT THEIR BALLOT WITHOUT HAVE TO
RELY ON OVERBURDENED POSTAL SERVICE STRUGGLING TO KEEP UP WITH
UNPRECEDENTED VOLUME OF BALLOT SUBMISSIONS. ALL THESE STATES HAVE
SECURITY MEASURES, LIKE CALIFORNIA AND OTHER STATES, OREGON TO ENSURE
SECURITY, SIMILAR TO LIKE A MAILBOX TO ENSURE THAT THE BALLOTS ARE SECURE.
THIS BILL AUTHORIZES LOCAL BOARD OF ELECTIONS, IT DOES NOT MANDATE THAT.
MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
MR. SIMONE: YES, I'LL YIELD.
ACTING SPEAKER ZEBROWSKI: MR. -- MR.
SIMONE YIELDS.
MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE
YOU ANSWERING MY ONE QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A MANDATE OR NOT,
SO WE KNOW IT'S NOT AS OPTIONAL ON THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS. I WANTED TO,
THOUGH, ASK YOU ABOUT THE ACTUAL BOX AND THE SECURITY OF THAT BOX,
BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, I AM CONCERNED THAT PEOPLE COULD BE DROPPING
THE BALLOTS IN UNSECURED BOXES. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE HOW IT
WILL BE SECURED?
MR. SIMONE: SURE. IT'S LIKE -- IT'S LIKE YOUR
MAILBOX, IT'S SECURE. IT'S ALSO A FELONY IF YOU TAMPER WITH THE BOX IN
NEW YORK STATE. EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE THEM AT THE CURRENT
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MOMENT IF YOU WERE TO TAMPER WITH THE VOTE, IN CALIFORNIA THEY HAVE
VIDEO CAMERAS, THEY HAVE SECURITY. IT WOULD BE IN A LOCAL COMMUNITY
CENTER THAT'S WELL-POPULATED. IT WOULD BE DUE ELECTION DAY. THEY
HAVEN'T HAD ANY PROBLEMS IN ANY OF THE 33 STATES. THEY'VE HAD NO
EVIDENCE OF FRAUD. THEY SAID IT'S EASIER TO GET STRUCK BY LIGHTNING THEN
TO PROVE ANY FRAUD IN ANY OF THE STATES.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO IT'S LIKE A MAILBOX AND YOU
WOULD JUST PUT THE BALLOT IN THE MAILBOX?
MR. SIMONE: CORRECT.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY. WILL THERE BE SECURITY CAMERAS
ON IT?
MR. SIMONE: IT DEPENDS ON THE SECURITY PLAN. THIS
BILL REQUIRES FOR THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS IN WHATEVER COUNTIES CHOOSE TO
USE IT, LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT A MANDATE, AUTHORIZES IT. WE HOPE THAT MOST
WOULD GO FOR IT BECAUSE IT SPREADS DEMOCRACY AND WE'RE FOR
DEMOCRACY. IT WOULD SIMPLY MANDATE RULES AND COME UP WITH RULES TO
MAKE SURE THEY'RE SECURE.
MR. NORRIS: IS THERE A RESTRICTION ON HOW MANY
BALLOTS YOU CAN PUT IN THE MAILBOX?
(PAUSE)
MR. SIMONE: THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS WOULD
PROMULGATE RULES AND REGULATIONS ON THE AMOUNT AND PICKUPS.
MR. NORRIS: COULD SOMEBODY GO AROUND THEIR
APARTMENT BUILDING OR NEIGHBORHOOD AND COLLECT A BUNCH OF ABSENTEE
BALLOTS AND THEN GO DROP THEM IN THIS BOX?
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(PAUSE)
MR. SIMONE: IT'S OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THIS
LEGISLATION.
MR. NORRIS: WELL, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE SAYING THAT
BECAUSE THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS WOULD PROMULGATE THE RULES, BUT
WE ARE ALSO THE LEGISLATURE, AND IF WE PUT SOMETHING INTO STATUTE,
THEY'LL OVERRIDE THE REGULATION. SO I DO HAVE CONCERNS THAT WITH BALLOT
SECURITY, POTENTIAL FRAUD, THAT AN INDIVIDUAL COULD GO OUT THROUGH A
BALLOT HARVESTING, COLLECT THEM, POTENTIALLY GATHER ABSENTEE BALLOTS
WHICH WE'VE DISCUSSED ON PREVIOUS BILLS OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, AND
DEPOSIT THEM INTO THIS SECURITY BOX. AND MAYBE THOSE VOTERS NEVER
EVEN GOT THEIR BALLOT, BECAUSE IN SOME CASES, WE KNOW THAT YOU CAN GO
ELECTRONICALLY ONTO THE WEBSITE TO HAVE THESE BALLOTS SENT TO YOU, OR TO
THESE PEOPLE, AND THAT'S A CONCERN OF MINE. AND THEN THE NEXT STEP,
THEN DEPOSIT THEM INTO THESE BOXES PARTICULARLY IF WE DON'T KNOW IF
THERE'S SECURITY CAMERAS ON THERE OR A CHAIN OF CUSTODY, WHICH IS A
CONCERN OF MINE.
NOW, LET'S JUST TURN TO ELECTION NIGHT. SO I SEE IN THE
-- THE BILL HERE THAT THEY -- THEY WILL HAVE TO -- THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS
WILL HAVE TO GO SECURE THESE BALLOTS AT THE TIME THE POLLS CLOSE; IS THAT
CORRECT.
MR. SIMONE: THAT'S CORRECT.
MR. NORRIS: AND HOW WOULD THEY DO THAT?
MR. SIMONE: HOW WOULD THEY DO THAT?
MR. NORRIS: YEAH, WOULD THEY SEND MORE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PERSONNEL THERE WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO SHUT THE OTHER ELECTION BOOTHS
DOWN?
MR. SIMONE: CORRECT.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY. NOW, WHAT IF THEY DON'T GET
THERE?
(PAUSE)
MR. SIMONE: THE LOCAL BOARD OF ELECTIONS WOULD
ONLY DO IT IF THEY CLEARLY COULD COMPLY WITH THE LAW, SIMILAR TO THE
DEADLINES OF WHEN ABSENTEE BALLOTS ARE DUE AND COUNTING BALLOTS, THEY
HAVE TO COMPLY.
MR. NORRIS: BUT WHAT IF THEY DON'T GET THERE AT
9:00 WHEN THE POLLS SHUT DOWN? WHAT IF THEY GET THERE AT 6:00 A.M.
THE NEXT DAY?
MR. SIMONE: THERE HASN'T BEEN -- THERE HASN'T BEEN
ANY PROOF OF THIS INSTANCE IN THE 33 STATES THAT HAVE USED DROP BOXES.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY.
MR. SIMONE: I HAVE FAITH THAT THE POLL WORKERS WILL
WANT TO COUNT THOSE VOTES AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
MR. NORRIS: WELL I DO, TOO, BUT I ALSO SERVED AS A
ELECTIONS COMMISSIONER AND I ALSO REALIZE THE AMOUNT OF CHAOS THAT
OCCURS AT 9:00 WHEN YOU HAVE MULTIPLE ELECTION POLLING SITES CALLING
THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS OF TRYING TO GET EVERY INDIVIDUAL POLLING SITE
CLOSED THAT THERE MAY BE AN ISSUE WITH THAT. THAT'S WHY I'M CONCERNED
BECAUSE MAYBE THERE SHOULD BE AN AUTOMATIC LOCK AT THAT POINT IN TIME
WHERE THEY CANNOT GET ANY MORE BALLOTS IN THERE, BECAUSE IT COULD BE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
COLLECTING THESE BALLOTS, THEY COULD BE HOLDING THE BALLOTS AND THEY
COULD BE PUTTING THE BALLOTS IN POTENTIALLY AFTER THE POLL -- THE POLLS
CLOSE. SO I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THAT, NOT KNOWING THAT THEY HAVE TO
MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE CLOSED DOWN AT 9:00. I'M ALSO CONCERNED
BECAUSE THERE'S A LANGUAGE IN THE BILL THAT SAYS THAT IT SHALL BE DEEMED
TIMELY, AND THE FAILURE OF A BOARD OF ELECTIONS OF TIMESTAMP THAT WAS
RECEIVED IN THIS MANNER ON OR BEFORE ELECTION DAY SHALL NOT PROHIBIT
THE CANVASSING OF SUCH BALLOTS. SO THERE'S JUST A POTENTIAL IN MY
OPINION, THAT THERE COULD BE BALLOTS PLACED IN THESE BOXES AFTER THE
CLOSE OF THE POLLS. AND I WOULD TELL YOU, I'VE HAD CONCERNS ABOUT THIS
WITH THE POSTMARKS ON THE ABSENTEE BALLOTS, BECAUSE WE'VE PASSED
LEGISLATION IN THIS HOUSE THAT AUTOMATICALLY COUNTS THEM IF IT WAS THE
NEXT DAY BY A PRESUMPTION, WHICH WE KNOW THAT YOU CAN MAIL THESE
BALLOTS FROM OTHER PLACES. SO THESE ARE SOME OF MY CONCERNS ABOUT
SECURITY, ABOUT THE BOX THEMSELVES AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY ARE
SECURED. I'M CONCERNED A LITTLE ABOUT THE COST. DO YOU KNOW HOW THE
COSTS ARE GOING TO BE HANDLED? WILL THIS PAID BY THE COUNTY BOARDS OR
BY THE STATE BOARD?
MR. SIMONE: IT WOULD BE AND HOMELAND SECURITY I
THINK ESTIMATES IT AT $6,000 A BOX.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY, $6,000 A BOX. AND IT'LL BE
BORNE BY THE LOCAL COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS?
MR. SIMONE: IF THEY CHOOSE TO USE THE DROP BOXES.
MR. NORRIS: WOULD THAT BE REIMBURSED BY THE
STATE OF NEW YORK?
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(PAUSE)
MR. SIMONE: AT SOME POINT WE'RE TRY TO GET IT INTO
THE BUDGET, BUT IT WOULD BE FROM THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS.
MR. NORRIS: I SEE.
MR. SIMONE: AND TO ANSWER YOUR EARLIER QUESTION
--
MR. NORRIS: SURE.
MR. SIMONE: -- SIR, AT THE CLOSE OF POLLS OF ELECTION
DAY, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS SHALL CLOSE EVERY ABSENTEE BALLOT DROP BOX
AND COLLECT ABSENTEE BALLOT DEPOSITED IN SUCH ABSENTEE BALLOT DROP BOX.
MR. NORRIS: YES, BUT WHAT IF THEY DON'T GET THERE
AND IT CLOSES?
MR. SIMONE: THEN THEY'RE IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW.
MR. NORRIS: OH, I SEE. SO THEY COULD BE CHARGED
WITH A MISDEMEANOR OR A FELONY, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS PEOPLE?
(PAUSE)
MR. SIMONE: IT'S OUTSIDE SCOPE OF THIS BILL.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY. LET ME JUST ASK ONE MORE
QUESTION. HOW MANY -- HOW MANY BOXES COULD THERE BE PER
MUNICIPALITY OR COUNTY? IS THERE AN ACTUAL CAP?
MR. SIMONE: THERE -- THERE'S NOT, BUT I THINK THE
GOAL IS TO HAVE A MINIMUM OF TWO.
MR. NORRIS: MINIMUM OF TWO, AND WOULD THEY BE
-- WHERE WOULD THEY BE LOCATED?
MR. SIMONE: I MEAN, IT DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
COUNTY, CLEARLY.
MR. NORRIS: I SEE.
MR. SIMONE: THAT -- ACTUALLY, I TAKE THAT BACK, THAT
WAS INCORRECT. IT DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE COUNTY AND WHAT THEY FEEL
THAT THEY NEED. IT WOULD BE UP TO THE LOCAL BOARD OF ELECTIONS.
MR. NORRIS: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I
APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS AND YOUR COURTESIES IN THIS
REGARD.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON THE BILL, MR.
NORRIS.
MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU KNOW,
I'VE ASKED SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SECURITY MEASURES, ABOUT
HOW THESE BOXES WILL BE ACTUALLY LOCKED, WHAT IF THE BOARD OF
ELECTIONS PERSONNEL ARE NOT ABLE TO GET THERE IF THEY PHYSICALLY HAVE TO
LOCK THESE BOXES DOWN. WHAT IF, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO CLOSE THEM
DOWN THE NEXT DAY BECAUSE OF INTERVENING EVENTS THAT OCCUR WHILE
THEY'RE TRYING TO CLOSE THE REST OF THE POLLING SITES DOWN. I DO HAVE
CONCERNS, AND I -- I GENUINELY TRUST PEOPLE, BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE
ARE FRAUD SITUATIONS THAT OCCUR WITH ELECTIONS, AND THERE'S A POTENTIAL
FOR FRAUD AND BALLOT HARVESTING WHERE THESE BALLOTS COULD BE STUFFED
INTO THESE LOCK BOXES FOLLOWING THE CLOSE OF THE POLLS, THAT'S A CONCERN
OF MINE. AND I DO THINK IT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE THAT THIS BODY
REQUESTS FROM THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTION A SECURITY PLAN THAT WE COULD
PUT RIGHT INTO THE STATUTE SO IT'S VERY CLEAR INSTEAD OF TAKING THIS LEAP OF
410
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
FAITH NOT KNOWING WHAT THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, WHO I HAVE A
HIGH REGARD FOR, BUT WILL IT BE IN THEIR RULES AND REGULATIONS,
PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO CHAIN OF CUSTODY. AND I'M ALSO
CONCERNED ABOUT THE CONTINUATION OF COST AND BURDENSOME REGULATIONS
ON OUR BOARD OF ELECTIONS, WHICH ULTIMATELY COMES DOWN TO THE
COUNTY AND LOCAL TAXPAYERS.
I THINK EVERYONE WHO IS A U.S. CITIZEN AND WHO IS
ELIGIBLE SHOULD EXERCISE THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE. I'M A FORMER ELECTIONS
COMMISSIONER, MANY OF YOU KNOW THIS ON THE FLOOR, I HAVE SEEN
DEMOCRACY FIRSTHAND AND I WANT EVERYONE TO EXERCISE THAT RIGHT,
REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLITICAL AFFILIATION, MAKE SURE THEY VOTE. PEOPLE
FOUGHT AND DIED FOR THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO VOTE. BUT ALSO, WE HAVE
TO BE REASONABLE ABOUT ALL OF THESE COSTS THAT ARE BEING PLACED ON IT.
WE HAVE ELECTION DAY. NOW WE HAVE EARLY VOTING. ON TOP OF THAT
WE'RE PAYING FOR EVERYONE'S POSTAGE TO COME BACK TO THE BOARD OF
ELECTIONS FOR THE ABSENTEE BALLOTS, WE'RE NOW PROVIDING THE SECURITY
LOCK BOXES POTENTIALLY AT $6,000 A PIECE. AND I AM CONCERNED, WHILE
WE HAVE THIS MOMENT TO TALK ABOUT THE EARLY VOTING. TEN DAYS OF EARLY
VOTING, PARTICULARLY IN UPSTATE NEW YORK, WHICH IS COSTING THE COUNTY
TAXPAYERS A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS PER PERSON OF VOTERS TO ACTUALLY
VOTE AT THOSE SITES. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY HAVE TO EXAMINE.
I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD COMPLETELY GET RID OF EARLY VOTING, MAYBE WE
SHOULD REDUCE IT FROM TEN TO FIVE DAYS, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU'RE
LOOKING AT PRIMARIES AND GENERAL ELECTIONS THAT ARE NOT ON
PRESIDENTIALS, BECAUSE THE COST IS GOING DOWN RIGHT ON OUR LOCAL
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PROPERTY TAXPAYERS, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE JUST NEED TO LOOK AT AND
IT GAVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS BILL TO POINT IT TO THIS
ENTIRE BODY, BECAUSE IT IS BURDENSOME AND WE HAVE MANY AVENUES FOR
INDIVIDUALS TO EXERCISE THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE.
SO, MR. SPEAKER, I JUST BELIEVE THIS, NUMBER ONE,
NEEDS MORE STUDY. WE HAVE ISSUES WITH SECURITY, AND I BELIEVE THAT THE
COST TO OUR TAXPAYERS IS OVERWHELMING WHEN WE HAVE MULTIPLE AVENUES
ALREADY FOR INDIVIDUALS TO VOTE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. SO WITH THAT,
MR. SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST THIS BILL AND I ENCOURAGE MY
COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. AND, MR. SIMONE, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR
ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS. THOSE WHO'D LIKE TO
SUPPORT IT CAN VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE
VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE CAN
DO SO AT THEIR DESK NOW. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: THE CLERK WILL
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. SIMONE TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE.
MR. SIMONE: MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
VOTING ACCESS AND INTEGRITY ARE KEY TO A FUNCTIONAL DEMOCRACY. I
THINK, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD ALWAYS LOOK AT COSTS, BUT DEMOCRACY IS
IMPORTANT. AT NO COST SHOULD WE EVER NOT HAVE FULL ACCESS TO VOTING. I
THINK WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE MORE VOTING AND MAKE IT THE EASIEST AS
POSSIBLE. MOST STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE INSTITUTED BALLOT DROP
BOXES FOR THE ELECTIONS AS A WAY TO ACHIEVE THESE GOALS. AS MORE AND
MORE NEW YORKERS VOTE BY MAIL SINCE THE PANDEMIC, WE NEED TO GIVE
VOTERS AS MANY CONVENIENT OPTIONS AS POSSIBLE TO SAFELY AND SECURELY
RETURN THEIR BALLOTS. IN JUNE, 2021 THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY ELECTION IN
NEW YORK CITY, MANY BALLOTS WERE INVALIDATED FOR REASONS RELATED TO
THE MAIL-IN PROCESS, SUCH AS A LACK OF APPROPRIATE POSTMARK OR LATE
ARRIVAL DUE TO DELAYS. AN MIT STUDY PUBLISHED IN 2020 FOUND 1.4
MILLION LOST MAIL VOTES IN THE 2016 ELECTION, 4 PERCENT OF ALL MAIL
BALLOTS CAST AND 1 PERCENT OF ALL BALLOTS. A 2022 TOWNSON UNIVERSITY
STUDY FOUND THAT WHILE MAIL-IN VOTING IS SAFE, THE HIGHEST THREAT TO
BALLOT SECURITY WAS TO BE MISPLACED OR DESTROYED IN MAILROOMS. THE
BILL WOULD AUTHORIZE THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS TO GIVE NEW YORKERS THE
CONVENIENT SECURE METHOD TO SUBMIT THEIR BALLOTS DIRECTLY TO THE LOCAL
BOARD OF ELECTIONS WITHOUT USING THE MAIL, THEREBY LESSENING THE
BURDEN ON USPS AND EXPEDITING THE RETURN OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS. IT'S
BEEN WORKING IN 33 STATES, NEW YORK IS BEHIND THE CURVE. I THINK WE
413
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
NEED TO EXPAND DEMOCRACY. THANK YOU. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. SIMONE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 39, CALENDAR NO. 182, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06317, CALENDAR NO.
182, GLICK, DINOWITZ, KELLES, COLTON, EPSTEIN, BURDICK. AN ACT TO
AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE "LOW IMPACT
LANDSCAPING RIGHTS ACT"
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU.
ON THE BILL, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: ON THE BILL.
MR. GOODELL: THIS BILL PURPORTS TO OVERRIDE ANY
DEED, CONTRACT, BYLAW, SECURITY AGREEMENT, RULES OR REGULATIONS OF A
HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION THAT EVERYONE AGREED TO IN ADVANCE IF THOSE
DOCUMENTS, THOSE LEGAL DOCUMENTS IN ANY WAY IMPEDE ON THE ABILITY OF
ANY PARTICULAR OWNER TO INSTALL OR MAINTAIN RAIN GARDENS, POLLINATOR
GARDENS, HABITAT GARDENS FOR NATURAL -- FOR NATIVE WILDLIFE OR OTHER
GARDENS THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THOSE DEEDS,
CONTRACTS, BYLAWS, OR AGREEMENTS THAT GOVERN THE HOMEOWNER'S
ASSOCIATION. THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES. HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATIONS ARE
FORMED BY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE A HIGH QUALITY AGREED UPON
414
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ENVIRONMENT, AND RIGHT IN THE DEEDS THEMSELVES ARE THE RULES AND
REGULATIONS, AND IN THE BYLAWS, AND IN THE CONTRACTS THAT THEY
VOLUNTARILY SIGN THAT GOVERN THINGS LIKE LANDSCAPING. AND IT'S ALL
DESIGNED SO THAT EVERYONE THERE KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE BUYING WHEN THEY
PUT THEIR HARD-EARNED MONEY DOWN ON THE TABLE AND GET A DEED IN
RETURN. AND THIS BILL PURPORTS TO OVERRIDE ALL OF THOSE AGREEMENTS,
EVERY ONE OF THEM, AND RULE THEM TO BE NULL AND VOID SO THAT ANY ONE
MEMBER OR GROUP CAN GO OUT AND PLANT WILDFLOWERS, OR PUT IN A RAIN
GARDEN OR ANYTHING THEY WANTED TO AS LONG AS THEY THOUGHT THAT IT WAS
CONSISTENT WITH THE LOW-IMPACT LANDSCAPING EVEN THOUGH IT VIOLATED ALL
THOSE LEGAL DOCUMENTS.
IT IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR US AS A LEGISLATURE TO PURPORT TO
OVERRIDE EXISTING CONTRACTS, DEEDS AND EVERY OTHER LEGAL DOCUMENT THAT
MIGHT IMPEDE ON THIS ISSUE. THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THE HOMEOWNER'S
ASSOCIATION HAVE THEIR OWN BOARD AND IT'S UP TO THEM, CONSISTENT WITH
ALL THEIR LEGAL DOCUMENTS, TO DECIDE HOW THEY WANT TO DO THE
LANDSCAPING, NOT FOR STATE LEGISLATORS LOCATED HUNDREDS OF MILES AWAY.
FOR THAT REASON, I WOULD RECOMMEND MY COLLEAGUES VOTE AGAINST THIS.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: MR. TAGUE.
MR. TAGUE: SORRY, MR. SPEAKER, MY LIGHT WAS ON
FOR THE LAST RIDICULOUS BILL THAT WE JUST PASSED, I WANTED TO EXPLAIN MY
VOTE, BUT -- SO I'M -- THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER EACHUS: SORRY.
MS. GLICK.
415
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU KNOW,
EVERYBODY CAN EITHER SEE THE GLASS HALF FULL OR HALF EMPTY. I WOULD JUST
SAY THAT THIS -- THE PURPOSE OF THE BILL IS TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF A
HOMEOWNER TO USE LOW IMPACT LANDSCAPING ON THEIR PROPERTY IN CASES
WHERE THEY'RE PART OF A HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION. AND IT IS I THINK IN OUR
INTEREST TO ENCOURAGE THE USE OF NATURAL LANDSCAPING WHICH PROVIDES FOR
THE ABILITY FOR THE GROUND TO ABSORB WATER, STORE IT, PREVENT MORE
RUNOFF, PARTICULARLY SINCE TURF GRASS CONSUMES SO MUCH WATER AND
REQUIRES THE ADDITION OF CHEMICALS AND IS NOT HEALTHY FOR PEOPLE OR
PETS.
SO I UNDERSTAND THAT THE BILL DOES ALSO ENSURE THAT
PEOPLE HAVE TO MAINTAIN THEIR PROPERTY SO IT ISN'T AN EYESORE, AND IT IS
ALSO REQUIRED THAT THEY NOT IMPEDE ON THE COMMON SPACE OR ON THEIR --
THE ADJOINING PROPERTY. SO THE REDUCTION IN THE USE OF PESTICIDES AND
HERBICIDES AND THE ABILITY TO PROVIDE FOR THE ABSORPTION OF RAINWATER AS
WE SEE MORE AND MORE HEAVY RAIN EVENTS IS ACTUALLY A POSITIVE FOR THE
ENTIRE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION, NOT JUST THESE INDIVIDUALS.
SO I HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL TAKE THE BROADER VIEW AND
RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS A POSITIVE ADVANCEMENT AND NOT THE END OF
WESTERN CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
416
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BILL, BOTH ON
CONSTITUTIONAL AND NON-POLICY GROUNDS, BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT CAN
CERTAINLY VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS
PIECE OF LEGISLATION.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF WE COULD
NOW TO GO THE MAIN CALENDAR, RULES REPORT NO. 164 BY MR. WEPRIN;
245 BY MS. LUNSFORD; 386 BY MR. THIELE; 486 BY MS. ROSENTHAL; 480
BY MS. FAHY; AND TO THE A-CALENDAR, RULES REPORT NO. 573 BY MR.
BRONSON; B-CALENDAR, RULES REPORT NO. 597, MR. DINOWITZ; AND 654
BY MS. LUPARDO. IN THAT ORDER, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES.
417
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PAGE 5, RULES REPORT NO. 164, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06345, RULES REPORT
NO. 164, WEPRIN, BARRETT, BLANKENBUSH, DIPIETRO, FAHY, HUNTER,
MILLER, RIVERA, SANTABARBARA, STECK, CARROLL, BUTTENSCHON, ZEBROWSKI,
L. ROSENTHAL, WOERNER, THIELE, BRABENEC, STIRPE, LUPARDO, DE LOS
SANTOS, ARDILA, REILLY, KELLES, SIMON, MCMAHON, LEMONDES, BENDETT.
AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO PHYSICAL THERAPY
SERVICES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
WEPRIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 7, RULES REPORT NO. 245, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06832-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 245, LUNSFORD, BRONSON, JACOBSON, CRUZ, RAMOS, GLICK,
STIRPE, SHIMSKY, ARDILA, CONRAD, MCMAHON, ZACCARO, DICKENS,
SIMON, LEVENBERG, SIMONE, MEEKS, MAMDANI, BUTTENSCHON,
418
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SEAWRIGHT, BENDETT, BURDICK, EACHUS, SAYEGH, EPSTEIN, SHRESTHA,
DAVILA, COLTON, L. ROSENTHAL, LUCAS, TAYLOR. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION TO WORKERS' ACCESS TO
TREATMENT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
LUNSFORD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. I WILL BE VOTING NO
ON THIS BILL BECAUSE I THINK THAT OUR THREE CHANGES IN THIS BILL THAT ARE
LIKELY TO INCREASE THE COST OF WORKERS' COMPENSATION FOR OUR
COMPANIES, AND ALL OF OUR COMPANIES HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING THAT THE
WORKER'S COMPENSATION COSTS ARE ALREADY AMONGST THE HIGHEST IN THE
NATION.
THE THREE CHANGES IS THAT IT WOULD INCREASE BY 50
PERCENT THE AMOUNT THE EMPLOYEE COULD GO AND INCUR FROM $1,000 TO
$1,500 WITHOUT ANY PRE-APPROVAL WHATSOEVER. SECOND, THE WORKERS'
COMP PROGRAM HAS A NUMBER OF PROCEDURES THAT ARE PRE-APPROVED AND
THE EXPECTATION IS THAT IF IT'S NOT ON THAT LIST THAT YOU'LL SEEK
PRE-APPROVAL. THIS WOULD CHANGE THAT AND SAY THAT THE FAILURE TO SEEK
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PRE-APPROVAL OR BE ON THE PRE-APPROVAL LIST DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE
NOT ENTITLED TO PAYMENT. AND THE THIRD THING IT DOES IS IT PROVIDES THAT
YOU CAN GO TO ANY PROVIDER YOU WANT, INCLUDING A MEDICAL PROVIDER
THAT'S OUTSIDE THE NETWORK AND THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION PROGRAM
WILL PAY THAT OUT-OF-NETWORK PROVIDER THE SAME AS THEY WOULD PAY AN
IN-NETWORK PROVIDER. AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT WHEN
INSURANCE COMPANIES NEGOTIATE WITH PHYSICIANS TO JOIN THE NETWORK,
THEY NEGOTIATE A LOWER RATE WITH THE EXPECTATION WITH A PHYSICIAN THAT
THEY'LL GET A HIGHER VOLUME. AND SO IF YOU CAN'T GUARANTEE A HIGHER
VOLUME, IT'S LIKELY THE PHYSICIANS WILL DEMAND A HIGHER RATE.
AND SO I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE'S DESIRE TO MAKE IT
EASIER FOR EMPLOYEES TO GET SERVICES, ULTIMATELY IT'S GOING TO INCREASE
THE COST OF WORKERS COMP AND FOR THAT REASON, I CAN'T SUPPORT IT.
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. MR.
GOODELL IN THE NEGATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 9, RULES REPORT NO. 386.
THE CLERK: SENATE S00967-A, RULES REPORT NO.
386, SENATOR RYAN (A01489-A, THIELE, WILLIAMS, MCMAHON, BURKE,
RIVERA, DICKENS, PEOPLES-STOKES, WALLACE, ZEBROWSKI, SILLITTI,
GUNTHER). AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO
DELINQUENT TAX INTEREST RATES.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. THIS WILL BE A PARTY
VOTE FOR THE REASONS I WILL EXPLAIN SHORTLY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. CERTAINLY, THOSE WHO
WANT TO VOTE FOR IT CAN DO SO HERE ON THE FLOOR OF THE ASSEMBLY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THE DEMOCRATIC CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS
PIECE OF LEGISLATION.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU BOTH.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. CURRENTLY, MOST OF
THE COUNTIES CHARGE 1 PERCENT INTEREST RATE PER MONTH FOR DELINQUENT
TAXES. THIS IS AFTER YOU HAVE ALREADY HAVE AT LEAST A MONTH PAY. THIS
BILL WOULD CHANGE THAT AND PUT IT ON TO A VARIABLE RATE, AND THE VARIABLE
RATE WOULD BE BETWEEN 2 PERCENT ON THE LOW SIDE AND UP TO 16 PERCENT,
AND IT WOULD BE BASED ON THE PRIME PLUS 2 -- I THINK PRIME PLUS 2.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
NOW, THE GREAT THING ABOUT A VARIABLE RATE IS WHEN INTEREST RATES ARE
LOW YOU PAY LESS, WHEN INTEREST RATES ARE HIGH YOU PAY, UNFORTUNATELY,
MUCH HIGHER. SO THE NET EFFECT OF THIS BILL IS THAT WHEN INTEREST RATES
ARE HIGH YOUR INTEREST RATE ON YOUR TAX BILL WOULD ALSO BE HIGH. AND SO
NOW YOU'RE GETTING DOUBLY-SQUEEZED. YOU'RE GETTING SQUEEZED WITH A
HIGHER INTEREST RATE ON YOUR CREDIT CARDS AND YOUR CAR LOANS AND
EVERYTHING ELSE, AND A HIGHER INTEREST RATE ON YOUR TAXES. AND THIS
COMES -- AND THE FLIP SIDE IS WHEN THE INTEREST RATE'S LOW, GREAT, YOU'RE
PAYING A LOWER INTEREST RATE AND YOUR COUNTY GOVERNMENT IS LOSING
MONEY AND SO THEY'LL RAISE YOUR PROPERTY TAXES FOR YOU, BECAUSE THERE'S
NO FREE RIDE IN THIS WORLD. AND THIS CHANGE THAT PUTS IT ON A VARIABLE
RATE COMES AT THE SAME TIME THAT ALL OF OUR COUNTIES ARE ADJUSTING OUR
FORECLOSURE PROCEDURE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE SUPREME COURT RULING
THAT SAID IF, BY CHANCE, THEY SELL A FORECLOSED PROPERTY FOR MORE THAN
THE TAXES, THEY HAVE TO SEND THE REFUND BACK, THE EXCESS BACK TO THE
HOMEOWNER. WELL, THE PROBLEM IS THAT MOST OF THE TIME BY THE COUNTY
-- BY THE TIME THE COUNTY GOES FOR A TAX FORECLOSURE THEY ARE LUCKY TO
COVER THE AMOUNT DUE ON THE TAXES. BECAUSE A PROPERTY ONLY GOES INTO
A TAX FORECLOSURE WHEN ITS VALUE DROPS SO LOW THAT A BANK WILL NO
LONGER PAY THE TAXES FOR A DELINQUENT TAXPAYER. AND SO THIS DOESN'T
SAVE ANYONE ANY MONEY BECAUSE ANY REDUCTION IN THAT INTEREST RATE IS
GONNA BE PASSED ON TO YOU IN TERMS OF HIGHER PROPERTY TAXES. BUT
WHEN THE INTEREST RATES GOES UP IT REALLY WILL HURT BECAUSE EVERYTHING
ELSE YOU'RE PAYING IS GOING UP AND YOUR INTEREST ON YOUR PROPERTY TAXES
WILL GO UP. AND FOR THAT REASON I WON'T BE SUPPORTING IT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IN THE
NEGATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES -- MR. MCDONALD. NO?
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 15, RULES REPORT NO. 486, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S05916, RULES REPORT NO.
486, SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL (A06138, L. ROSENTHAL, DAVILA, SHIMSKY,
HEVESI, SIMON, WOERNER, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS). AN ACT TO AMEND THE
COURT OF CLAIMS ACT, THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW AND THE EDUCATION
LAW, IN RELATION TO MAKING TECHNICAL CORRECTIONS REGARDING THE FILING
AND SERVICE OF CLAIMS OF ADULT SEXUAL ASSAULT SURVIVORS
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 14, RULES REPORT NO. 480, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S00885-C, RULES REPORT
NO. 480, SENATOR HINCHEY (A04130-C, FAHY, L. ROSENTHAL, LEVENBERG,
423
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
BURDICK, SIMON, KELLES, WOERNER, CLARK, SHIMSKY, SIMONE, GUNTHER,
LUNSFORD, PAULIN, THIELE, GALLAGHER, STIRPE, JACOBSON, BARRETT,
LUPARDO, SHRESTHA). AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW AND THE
TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO SHORT-TERM RESIDENTIAL RENTAL OF PRIVATE
DWELLINGS IN CERTAIN MUNICIPALITIES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS
REQUESTED, MS. FAHY.
MS. FAHY: CERTAINLY. THIS BILL WOULD CREATE A
REGISTRATION SYSTEM FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS LOCATED OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK
CITY. THE REGISTRATION WOULD BE WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND
ALLOW FOR THE COLLECTION OF SALES AND LOCAL OCCUPANCY TAXES STATEWIDE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. FAHY, WILL YOU
YIELD?
MS. FAHY: CERTAINLY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. FAHY YIELDS.
MR. RA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. FAHY. SO AS
YOU STATED, THIS IS OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK CITY AND WE KNOW NEW YORK
CITY HAS TAKEN SOME ACTION WITH REGARD TO THIS, WHICH I THINK WE WILL
GET TO AT SOME POINT. BUT I -- I WANT TO JUST START WITH THE BROAD-BASED
QUESTION OF MUNICIPALITIES ACROSS THE STATE HAVE, I THINK, SOME
AUTHORITY TO REGULATE SHORT-TERM RENTALS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, MANY OF THEM
HAVE AND DO. AM I CORRECT THAT ONCE THIS GOES INTO EFFECT, LOCAL
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
GOVERNMENTS WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO CREATE THEIR OWN REGISTRIES?
MS. FAHY: ANY -- ANY NEW ONES MAY NOT BE
CREATED. ANY EXISTING ONES WILL ALLOW TO REMAIN WHERE THEY CHOOSE.
WE KIND OF ASSUME MANY WILL FOLD IN, BUT -- BUT YES.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND, I MEAN, WHAT IS THE INTENTION
OF DOING THAT? BECAUSE THEN WE'LL BE IN A SITUATION WHERE THOSE WHO
HAVE DECIDED PREVIOUSLY TO HAVE A LOCAL REGISTRY CAN STILL HAVE IT, BUT --
BUT ANOTHER MUNICIPALITY WHO MIGHT FOR SOME REASON WANT ONE CAN'T.
MS. FAHY: BECAUSE IT IS THE -- THE CLEANNESS OF
HAVING ONE TO BE FED INTO. ALL THE DATA WILL STILL, EVEN FROM NEW YORK
CITY, WILL FEED INTO THE STATEWIDE ONE, AND THIS WILL -- THIS WILL MAKE IT
EASIER. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF MUNICIPALITIES VERY INTERESTED IN THIS BUT
DON'T WANT THE EXPENSE OR HAVE BEEN UNABLE -- MANY SMALL
MUNICIPALITIES HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO TAKE UP THE EXPENSE OF CREATING THIS
DATABASE BECAUSE IN THE END IT IS A DATABASE THAT WILL FEED IN -- WELL,
ONE DATABASE ACROSS THE STATE. IT'S -- IT'S EASIER, INSTEAD OF HAVING
MULTIPLE -- THOSE WHO OWN PROPERTIES IN MULTIPLE JURISDICTIONS WILL NO
LONGER HAVE TO HAVE A REGIS -- REGISTER IN SEPARATE JURISDICTIONS, IT'LL BE
ONE DATABASE STATEWIDE. AND WE, AGAIN, ASSUME MANY WILL JUST FOLD
RIGHT INTO THAT.
MR. RA: SO, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ASSUME LOOKING AT
THIS ISSUE THAT DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE IN THE STATE AND THE TYPE OF
COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE A VERY DIFFERENT MARKET FOR THESE
TYPES OF RENTALS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE RENTING THEM MAY BE DOING IT FOR
DIFFERENT REASONS. LIKE, I THINK FOR INSTANCE, IF SOMEBODY WAS LISTING A
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PROPERTY IN THE DISTRICT I REPRESENT IT'S VERY DIFFERENT THAN, SAY, YOU
KNOW, MAYBE SOMEWHERE JUST NORTH OF HERE IN SARATOGA OR LAKE
GEORGE OR SOMEPLACE LIKE THAT WHERE PEOPLE ARE, YOU KNOW, ATTRACTED
TO FOR -- FOR VACATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO DOES THIS NOT CREATE KIND
OF A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL APPROACH GOING FORWARD THAT -- THAT DESPITE THE
FACT THAT THERE MAY BE VERY DIFFERENT RENTAL MARKETS AND REASONS FOR
THOSE RENTALS BEING AVAILABLE DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE IN NEW
YORK STATE?
MS. FAHY: AGAIN, MANY OF THOSE RENTALS ARE STILL ON
THE MAJOR PLATFORM, SHORT-TERM RENTAL PLATFORMS, WHICH ALREADY USE THE
SAME -- WHICH ALREADY USE THE COMMON DATABASE, AND CERTAINLY, WE ARE
SEEING -- WE'VE SEEN AN EXPONENTIAL GROWTH OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS
THROUGHOUT THE STATE, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. SO ONE DATABASE IS
ACTUALLY EASIER FOR ALL SINCE THEY ARE USED TO USING A VRBO OR AN
AIRBNB AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER -- WHETHER YOU'RE IN POUGHKEEPSIE OR
UP IN LAKE PLACID.
MR. RA: OKAY. SO AS -- AS WE ALL KNOW, YOU KNOW,
IT IS OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE THE ONES THAT DEAL WITH THINGS LIKE
ZONING, CODE ENFORCEMENT. THIS WILL HAVE A LOT OF THE ENFORCEMENT IN
TERMS OF THE REGISTRY, DONE BY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE, CORRECT?
MS. FAHY: YES.
MR. RA: SO, NUMBER ONE, DO WE HAVE AN ESTIMATE AS
TO WHAT THE COST WILL BE TO MANAGE THIS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE?
I KNOW THERE WERE SOME NUMBERS FROM, YOU KNOW, A PRIOR PROPOSAL
THAT LOOKED AT A NUMBER, I THINK IT WAS AROUND $50 MILLION. WHAT IS
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE COST TO THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE FOR IMPLEMENTING THIS AND
MANAGING THIS AT THE STATE LEVEL?
MS. FAHY: WE ACTUALLY THINK THAT WAS A
MISUNDERSTANDING OF -- OF WHAT IS -- WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE. THIS
IS A STATEWIDE REGISTRY, IT'S A DATABASE. WE KNOW FROM ALL THE ROOMS
AND THOSE DATA ANALYTICS FIRMS THAT ARE OUT THERE, WE KNOW THAT MOST OF
THESE DATABASES THAT HAVE BEEN USED AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE ABOUT $1
MILLION TO SET UP THE DATABASE ITSELF. AND THEY ARE SELF-POPULATING, JUST
AS AIRBNB IS SELF-POPULATING. AND THE -- THE BEST EXAMPLE, THOUGH,
HOWEVER, HERE IS -- IS NEW YORK CITY. NEW YORK CITY'S DATABASE, IT
WAS ABOUT 1. MILLION DOLLAR -- $1.3 MILLION AND THEY HAVE 13 FTE
REGULATING THAT. NOW THAT IS A DIFFERENT SYSTEM. THEY HAVE BANNED
MANY SHORT-TERM RENTALS UNLESS IT'S OWNER-OCCUPIED, SO IT IS -- IT'S A
LITTLE MORE AGGRESSIVE. THIS IS JUST A REGISTRY, SO 13 PEOPLE MAY BE --
MAY BE MORE THAN IS NEEDED AND WE ASSUME THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE
WOULD NOT NEED ANY ADDITIONAL FTE FOR THIS.
MR. RA: SO, YOU -- YOU THINK THAT ANY COST BORNE BY
THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE WILL BE ON THE, I GUESS, THE TECHNOLOGICAL SIDE
OF CREATING THE DATABASE AS OPPOSED TO ANY NEW STAFFING?
MS. FAHY: YES. AND THERE IS A FEE, THERE IS A
REGISTRATION FEE, A ONE-TIME FEE THAT AS IN NEW YORK CITY, A -- A FEE TO
-- TO REGISTER WITH THE DATABASE AND THAT CAN -- GIVEN THAT THERE ARE TENS
OF THOUSANDS OF AIRBNBS -- OR SORRY, OF SORT-TERM RENTALS, THAT DATABASE
CAN PROBABLY BE COVERED. WE'VE SEEN ESTIMATES OF THE DATABASE
ANYWHERE FROM 500,000 TO $1 MILLION.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. RA: OKAY. NOW WITHOUT ANY ADDITIONAL
STAFFING, HOW ARE THESE UNITS GOING TO BE EVALUATED BY THE DEPARTMENT
OF STATE TO DETERMINE THAT THEY MEET THE CRITERIA IN THIS BILL?
MS. FAHY: THERE'S -- THERE'S NO INSPECTION
REQUIREMENT HERE. THERE IS A REGISTRATION FEE AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S, YOU
KNOW, THEY -- THEY CAN BE SOMEWHAT SELF-POLICING, IF YOU WILL, BECAUSE
IN ORDER TO ADVERTISE YOUR SHORT-TERM RENTAL YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE ON A
DATABASE. AND JUST AS IN NEW YORK CITY, IF THERE'S NOT A REGISTRATION
NUMBER IT MEANS YOU'RE NOT REGISTERED, SO IT'S -- I THINK MANY TOWNS
AND MUNICIPALITIES ARE HIGHLY MOTIVATED TO LEARN WHAT IS OUT THERE. SO
I -- I THINK IN SOME WAYS THIS BECOMES SELF-ENFORCING IN A WAY BECAUSE
YOU NEED THAT REGISTRATION FEE. AND AGAIN, IF NEW YORK CITY -- AND I
KNOW THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY A MODEL OF EFFICIENCY -- IF THEY'RE DOING
THIS WITH 13 FTE AND THAT IS -- THAT WAS AT LEAST A MUCH, MUCH BIGGER
MARKET THAN THE REST OF THE STATE, AGAIN, WE ASSUME THERE SHOULD BE
MINIMAL COST TO THIS. BUT THERE WILL BE A FEE AND THAT FEE CAN PROBABLY
HELP COVER THIS. IT CERTAINLY PAID FOR NEW YORK CITY'S DATABASE.
MR. RA: OKAY. NOW, IN TERMS OF WHAT DOH --
DOS DOES IN COORDINATION, I GUESS, WITH -- WITH THE LOCAL LEVEL, I MEAN,
SOME OF -- SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED HERE, AND I THINK THEY'RE
IMPORTANT FOR, YOU KNOW, SAFETY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S REQUIREMENTS TO
MAKE SURE THAT AN EVACUATION DIAGRAM IS PRESENT, RIGHT, EMERGENCY
PHONE NUMBERS, A WORKING FIRE EXTINGUISHER, AND -- AND I THINK THAT'S
CERTAINLY APPROPRIATE AND WE WOULD EXPECT, YOU KNOW, IN -- IN ANY
TYPE OF, YOU KNOW, A HOTEL OR SOMETHING, RIGHT, THAT THAT TYPE OF STUFF IS
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PRESENT FOR THE -- FOR THE SAFETY OF -- OF GUESTS. WHAT COORDINATION IS
GOING TO TAKE PLACE BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND A LOCAL
GOVERNMENT IN TERMS OF MAKING SURE THOSE TYPES OF SAFETY PROVISIONS
ARE MET WHEN -- WHEN SOMEBODY CERTIFIES ONTO THIS REGISTRY?
MS. FAHY: MANY OF THOSE HEALTH AND SAFETY
REQUIREMENTS ARE ALREADY REQUIREMENTS OF THE TRADITIONAL SHORT-TERM
RENTAL AGENCIES. SO THAT IS HAVING A FIRE EXTINGUISHER, HAVING AN
EVACUATION PLAN. THOSE ARE ALREADY EXISTING REQUIREMENTS. OUR
UNDERSTANDING IS THIS DOESN'T REALLY GO BEYOND THAT. HOWEVER, A
MUNICIPAL -- THIS DOES NOT PRECLUDE ANY MUNICIPALITY FROM ADDING
ADDITIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY CONCERNS. SO FOR INSTANCE, LAKE GEORGE,
THEY MAY HAVE BOAT DOCKS THERE. CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE
ADDITIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY REQUIREMENTS WITH BOATS OR -- OR RENTALS
THAT INCLUDE BOATING. NOTHING PRECLUDES THOSE FROM BEING ADDED AND
-- OR -- OR WHERE A MUNICIPALITY CHOOSES TO ADD ADDITIONAL
REQUIREMENTS. IN OTHER WORDS, IF THEY HAVE EXISTING ONES, THEY REMAIN
EXISTING. IF A MUNICIPALITY CHOOSES -- BASED ON SOME OF THIS
INFORMATION THEY CHOOSE TO ADD MORE RESTRICTIONS WITHIN THEIR ZONING
CODE THAT IS CERTAINLY THEIR RIGHT.
MR. RA: SO NOW --
MS. FAHY: SO AGAIN, THERE IS A -- THERE'S BASELINE
HERE WHICH MOST PLATFORMS ALREADY HAVE ON HEALTH AND SAFETY, AND ANY
REQUIREMENTS, ANY ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY, A -- A
LOCAL MUNICIPALITY CONTINUES TO HAVE THAT RIGHT.
MR. RA: SO IF A LOCAL MUNICIPALITY WERE TO ADD
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND THAT MIGHT BE, I -- I WOULD THINK A NOT -- I
WOULDN'T SAY A UNIQUE SITUATION, BUT IT, YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE SOMETHING
LIKE THAT THAT'S OBVIOUSLY IF, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE DOING THIS IN THE
DISTRICT I REPRESENT NOBODY'S PUTTING ON A BOAT DOCK ON LAND LOCK AND SO
THAT WOULDN'T BE A THING. BUT IF -- IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT WERE PUT INTO
EFFECT, COULD -- DOES THAT BECOME PART OF BEING ON THE REGISTRY, AND IF
SO, HOW DOES THAT GET ENFORCED? IS IT AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, IS IT THE
DEPARTMENT OF STATE? HOW DOES THAT WORK WHEN IT'S PART OF A
STATEWIDE REGISTRY AND YOU MAY HAVE NOW A -- A CRITERIA THAT IS SOLELY
LOCAL?
MS. FAHY: THAT WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED TO BE IN THE
REGISTRY, AND YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY, THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE CAN -- CAN
DECIDE IF THERE'S A WAY TO HELP COORDINATE AMONG JURISDICTIONS. BUT --
BUT WHAT THEY HAVE RIGHT -- YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'RE DOING NOW WOULD
-- WOULD ALREADY APPLY. IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S NOT REQUIRED THAT THAT BE
REPORTED. YOU KNOW, MANY MUNICIPALITIES RIGHT NOW HAVE ALL SORTS OF
DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS. THIS HAS THE BASELINE OF HEALTH AND SAFETY,
WHAT OTHER MUNICIPALITIES ALREADY HAVE OR DECIDE TO ADD IS UP TO THEM.
MR. RA: OKAY. SO --
MS. FAHY: AND -- AND CERTAINLY, AGAIN, THESE --
THESE THINGS BECOME SELF-ENFORCING. WE KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF
COMPLAINTS, THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCERNS. CERTAINLY, ONE OF THE -- ONE OF
THE INTERESTS WE'VE HAD ARE FROM FIREFIGHTERS. THERE'S A REAL INTEREST IN
HAVING A STRONG SENSE OF WHAT IS THERE, WHAT'S GOING ON, AND HAVING
THAT INFORMATION. AND -- AND MUNICIPALITIES WILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DATABASE.
MR. RA: SO --
MS. FAHY: THE STATEWIDE DATABASE.
MR. RA: IF -- IF A PIECE OF -- IF A CRITERIA, SAY A BOAT
DOCK BECAUSE IT -- IT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT MAY BE
PRESENT IN SOME AREAS AND NOT IN A LOT OF OTHERS. SO SUPPOSE A LOCAL
GOVERNMENT MAKES -- LET -- LET'S ASSUME THIS LOCAL GOVERNMENT DOESN'T
CURRENTLY HAVE A LOCAL REGISTRY, RIGHT, AND THIS GOES INTO EFFECT AND THEY
HAVE, YOU KNOW, THESE PROPERTIES ARE ON THE STATE REGISTRY AND THEY
DECIDE, YOU KNOW WHAT? THIS IS SOMETHING I THINK WE NEED TO DO TO
MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE STAYING IN THESE PROPERTIES ARE SAFE.
THAT BECOMES A LOCAL REQUIREMENT, BUT IF IT'S NOT -- WITHOUT I -- I GUESS
PROPER COORDINATION, RIGHT, THE PROPERTIES CAN BE LISTED THROUGH THE
SITES EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH A LOCAL, YOU KNOW,
REGULATION REQUIREMENT THAT'S PUT INTO EFFECT.
MS. FAHY: BUT THERE -- ANY MUNICIPALITY WILL HAVE
ACCESS TO THIS DATABASE, THEY'LL HAVE MONTHLY REPORTS FROM THE DATABASE.
THIS WILL GIVE THOSE MUNICIPALITIES ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. IN FACT, WE
ASSUME THEY'LL BE MORE INFORMATION NOW FOR THEM SUCH THAT THEY CAN
FOLLOW THROUGH ON THAT WITH THEIR OWN -- YOU KNOW, IN THEIR OWN TOWN
WITH THEIR GOVERNMENT, AGAIN, WITH FIREFIGHTERS OR -- THIS -- THIS, WE
THINK, WILL HELP BETTER INFORM. I'VE HEARD FROM SOME OF MY OWN TOWNS
THAT THEY'RE VERY INTERESTED, THEY THINK IT WILL HELP WITH STREET PLANNING
LET ALONE POLICE AND FIREFIGHTER INFORMATION THAT THEY'D LIKE TO BE BETTER
AWARE OF. AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S -- THEY'RE OFTEN BLINDSIDED IN
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY GET CALLS ABOUT A PARTY OR THIS OR
THAT AND IT'S NOT THE OWNER THAT IS THERE. IF THEY KNOW THAT THIS IS AN
INVESTOR PROPERTY THEY'LL KNOW -- YOU KNOW, THEY'LL KNOW THAT THIS IS
MAYBE SOMEBODY OUT OF TOWN AND IT WOULDN'T BE SUCH-AND-SUCH OWNER
AT THAT ADDRESS. SO WE ACTUALLY THINK THIS WILL FUEL SOME SAFETY ISSUES,
PARTICULARLY WITH FIREFIGHTERS. THEY'RE -- THEY'RE FLYING BLIND RIGHT NOW,
OFTEN, WITH MANY OF THESE SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
MR. RA: SO GIVEN THAT, RIGHT, IS THERE ANY LIABILITY
THAT THE STATE INCURS FOR BASICALLY LICENSING AND CERTIFYING THAT A SHORT-
TERM RENTAL IS SAFE IF IT TURNS OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING HAPPENS
AND IT WAS LACKING ONE OF THESE PIECES OF -- OF SAFETY REQUIREMENTS?
MS. FAHY: NO, THERE IS -- NO, AND I -- I'M -- I -- I
KNOW THAT'S ADDRESSED AND I'M NOT GONNA FIND IT, BUT NO, THERE WOULDN'T
BE ADDITIONAL -- AGAIN, THE -- THE ONLY LIABILITY ON THE PART OF A HOST IS
THAT THEY BE IN THE REGISTRY AND THAT THEY MEET THE HEALTH AND SAFETY
REQUIREMENTS. AGAIN, THEY'RE QUITE COMPARABLE TO WHAT IS ALREADY
REQUIRED OF THEM AS A HOST ON TRADITIONAL SHORT-TERM RENTAL SITES.
MR. RA: OKAY. NOW, YOU -- WE -- WE'VE MENTIONED,
YOU KNOW, EARLIER NEW YORK CITY AND THEIR REGISTRY AND THE FACT THAT
THERE -- THERE ARE MANY OTHER MUNICIPALITIES WHO'VE CREATED REGISTRIES.
IS THERE ANY ANALYSIS THAT'S BEEN DONE AS TO WHAT, IF ANY, IMPACT THERE
HAS BEEN ON THE NUMBER OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS AVAILABLE WITHIN A -- A
PARTICULAR MUNICIPALITY WHO HAS DECIDED TO CREATE A REGISTRY?
MS. FAHY: WE KNOW FROM THE DATA ANALYTICS
PROVIDED BY ALL THE ROOMS. THAT'S THE NATIONAL DATA ANALYTIC COMPANY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TRYING TO TRACK SOME OF THESE. WE DO KNOW THAT OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK
CITY IT HAS BECOME A $1 BILLION INDUSTRY, 966 MILLION TO BE -- TO USE
THEIR NUMBERS, AND -- AND WE KNOW THAT THIS HAS GROWN RATHER
EXPONENTIALLY. THE NIGHTS STAYED, AGAIN, IN -- ON -- WITHIN A YEAR,
WITHIN THE LAST 12 MONTHS BEGINNING IN THE THIRD QUARTER OF 2023, WERE
3.4 MILLION NIGHTS STAYED. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO IN TERMS OF
ANALYTICS OR IN TERMS OF (INAUDIBLE)?
MR. RA: WELL, YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S -- THAT IS
IMPORTANT INFORMATION AS TO HOW -- WHAT -- WHAT IMPACT IT MAY HAVE
HAD ON THE MARKET.
MS. FAHY: AND IF I CAN ADD, THAT'S PART OF WHY
THERE'S SUCH AN INTEREST IN A STATEWIDE REGISTRY BECAUSE IT HAS AN -- AND
THIS IS ONLY WHAT THEY CAN GATHER. WE THINK WE WILL GET MORE
INFORMATION THIS WAY AND THAT'S WHY WE FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO HAVE
ONE REGISTRY AS OPPOSED TO COUNTLESS ONES. I KNOW HERE IN ALBANY,
GUILDERLAND AND THE TOWNS I REPRESENT THERE'S A REAL INTEREST IN THIS, AND
THEY DID NOT WANT TO INCUR THE COST OF TRYING TO CREATE THEIR OWN
DATABASE.
MR. RA: SURE. AND -- I -- I CAN CERTAINLY APPRECIATE
THAT, ESPECIALLY FOR A SMALLER COMMUNITY, BUT I -- I THINK I WOULD STILL
GO BACK TO THE IDEA OF, GREAT, IF A TOWN DOESN'T WANT TO CREATE ONE OR
DOESN'T WANT TO INCUR THE COST, THEY CAN UTILIZE THIS BUT THERE COULD BE
ONE THAT WANTS TO AND IS WILLING TO INCUR THE COST AND -- AND IT WOULD NO
LONGER BE ABLE TO UNDER THIS. NOW, AS IT COMES TO, RIGHT, WE HAVE KIND
OF TWO ACTORS IN THIS THAT ARE IMPACTED. THERE'S THE PERSON WHO -- WHO
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OWNS THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THESE TYPES OF BOOKING
SITES THAT WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT -- THAT LIST THEM THAT PEOPLE UTILIZE TO
-- TO BOOK THESE SHORT-TERM RENTALS. SO IT'S THE OWNER, RIGHT, WHO IS --
WHO IS REGISTERING AND CERTIFYING THAT THEY MEET ALL THESE CRITERIA,
CORRECT?
MS. FAHY: YES.
MR. RA: AND THEN THE BOOKING WEBSITE, APP,
WHATEVER, WHATEVER IT IS, CAN ONLY LIST A SITE WHEN SOMEBODY GOES AND
WANTS TO LIST THE RENTAL IF THEY'VE CERTIFIED THAT THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE
WITH THIS AND THEY'RE ON THE REGISTRY.
MS. FAHY: YES.
MR. RA: SO, THERE'S TWO, I GUESS, TWO-FOLD IN TERMS
OF HOW IT'S HANDLED IF IT TURNS OUT THAT THERE IS A VIOLATION. NOW, IF IN
TERMS OF THE OWNER, RIGHT, IF THEY HAVE AN ISSUE, THEY'RE NOT MEETING
ONE OF THESE CRITERIA, WHAT HAPPENS? THEY -- THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY
-- WOULD -- WOULD -- IF THEY WERE, I GUESS, FLAGGED BY THE DEPARTMENT
OF STATE, HEY, YOU DON'T -- YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE EVACUATION
DIAGRAM. WHEN ARE THEY SUBJECT TO A PENALTY FOR -- FOR NOT HAVING
THAT?
MS. FAHY: THE ONLY PENALTY THEY'RE SUBJECT TO IS
NOT REGISTERING, AND -- AND THEY GET A COUPLE OF WARNINGS THERE AND THEN
CAN BE CITED AND THAT CAN BE APPEALED WITHIN A NUMBER OF DAYS. BUT AT
THIS -- AGAIN, THERE'S NO INSPECTIONS TIED TO THIS, THERE'S NO -- THAT -- WE
ASSUME THAT THAT WILL CONTINUE TO GO ON AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. THIS IS -- A
LOT OF THIS IS ABOUT GIVING TRANSPARENCY TO THE INDUSTRY AND PROVIDING
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THAT TRANSPARENCY TO THESE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. BUT THE -- THE ONLY FINE
IS -- IS NOT REGISTERING.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND THEN IN TERMS OF THE BOOKING
SITE OR APP, IF THEY WERE TO HAVE, FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOU KNOW, A
LISTING SLIPS THROUGH THE CRACKS, I ASSUME -- ARE -- ARE -- THEY SUBJECT TO
-- TO PENALTY IF THERE'S NOT A PIECE OF CRITERIA MET OR IS IT JUST THEY LET
SOMETHING THAT POSTED THAT ISN'T ON THE REGISTRY?
MS. FAHY: IT'S -- IT IS THE --
(BUZZER SOUNDS)
-- REGISTRATION. IT'S THE -- IT'S FAILING TO REGISTER. IT'S
THE FAILURE TO REGISTER, IT'S NOT -- BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY PART THAT THEY
ARE REQUIRED TO DO. IT'S -- AND THEY CAN BE FINED THERE ACCORDINGLY IF --
IF THERE IS A RENTAL WITHOUT -- WITHOUT THE REGISTRY.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND THEY -- IF FOR THAT VIOLATION
FROM THE BOOKING SITE SIDE THERE'S NOT -- THERE'S NOT THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR
A WARNING -- FOR A WARNING OR SOME OPPORTUNITY TO CURE THE VIOLATION,
CORRECT?
MS. FAHY: THERE'S TWO WARNINGS, THEN THERE MAY BE
A FINE AND THAT FINE (INAUDIBLE) --
MR. RA: FOR THE BOOKING SITE?
MS. FAHY: OH, SORRY, YES, I MEANT THE HOST. I'M
SORRY, I'M READING -- I WAS JUMPING AHEAD. THAT'S THE HOST.
MR. RA: OKAY, YEAH. I'M SAYING FOR THE -- FOR THE --
MS. FAHY: SORRY.
MR. RA: -- BOOKING SITE IF THERE IS A VIOLATION THEY
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ARE -- THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO A FINE RIGHT AWAY, RIGHT? THERE'S NOT
THAT OPPORTUNITY TO CURE OR ANY TYPE OF WARNING?
MS. FAHY: YES. AND THEY NEED TO PROVIDE -- THEY
NEED TO PROVIDE THE INFORMATION.
MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. IN TERMS OF JUST THE
OVERALL, I GUESS, FINANCIAL SIDE OF THIS, WE'RE -- WE'RE GOING TO BE
COLLECTING SALES TAX?
MS. FAHY: YES.
MR. RA: AND -- AND OCCUPANCY TAX AS WELL --
MS. FAHY: YES.
MR. RA: -- IF IT'S SUBJECT IN A PARTICULAR JURISDICTION?
MS. FAHY: IF -- IF -- RIGHT, IF THERE IS ONE, YES.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND HOW IS THAT GOING TO WORK IN
TERMS OF IS -- BECAUSE I -- I THINK IN -- IN MOST SETTINGS IF, YOU KNOW,
THERE'S A LOCAL HOTEL OR MOTEL TAX THAT'S COLLECTED, IS IT GOING TO THE STATE
AND THE STATE IS -- IS GIVING IT BACK TO THE MUNICIPALITY OR -- OR IS IT SET
UP SO THAT IT IS REMITTED TO THE MUNICIPALITY?
MS. FAHY: THE -- I HAVE THIS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.
IT'S THE -- ONE GOES -- IT -- IT'S THE SAME AS ANY OF THE SALES TAX. YEAH,
THE OCCUPANCY GOES STRAIGHT TO THE LOCALITY -- I HAD IT RIGHT HERE IN FRONT
OF ME -- AND THE -- YEAH, THE SALES TAX GOES TO THE STATE TO TAX AND
FINANCE AND GETS REMITTED BACK AS -- AS WE DO NOW WITH INTERNET SALES.
THERE'S AN INTERCEPT AND IT GETS REMITTED BACK.
MR. RA: OKAY. NOW --
MS. FAHY: IT'S -- YOU KNOW, AGAIN, ALL -- ALL OF THIS
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IS AUTOMATED.
MR. RA: OKAY. NOW, IS -- IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS
TO ENSURE THAT THERE ISN'T, I DON'T WANT TO CALL IT A LOCKBOX BECAUSE IT'S,
YOU KNOW, BUT IT'S MONEY THAT COMES IN TO MAKE SURE IT GOES OUT.
WE'VE HAD A FEW ISSUES OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS WHERE THERE WERE
DECISIONS MADE TO NOT GIVE OUT ALL -- ALL -- ALL OF THE MONEY TO
MUNICIPALITIES OR SHIFT FUNDING AROUND. IS -- IS THERE PROTECTION TO
MAKE SURE THAT ANYTHING THAT IS COLLECTED AT THE STATE LEVEL DOES GO OUT
TO THE -- TO THE LOCALITY?
MS. FAHY: I PRESUME SO BECAUSE WE -- REMEMBER,
IT'S ALL -- IT'S COLLECTED, IT'S ALL REPORTED, IT'S RIGHT THERE. THESE ARE PRETTY
SOPHISTICATED DATABASES, AND THAT INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE TO THE
BOOKING SITES AS WELL. THEY WILL KNOW WHAT'S GOING IN. SO I -- I
WOULD -- I THINK IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD, THESE INTERCEPTS ARE -- YEAH,
IT'S A LOCAL SALES TAX SO IT'S -- IT'S QUITE STRAIGHTFORWARD.
MR. RA: OKAY.
MS. FAHY: I -- I THINK OF IT AS THE INTERNET SALES TAX
THAT WE ADDED A FEW YEARS AGO AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A -- IT'S A
PASS-THROUGH. AND THE OCCUPANCY ONE GOES DIRECTLY BACK TO THE
COUNTIES.
MR. RA: THANK YOU. AND --- AND THEN I GUESS LASTLY,
IN -- IN TERMS OF AS THIS IS BEING IMPLEMENTED, ANY -- DO WE HAVE ANY
SENSE AS TO HOW LONG THIS WILL TAKE TO GET THE STATE DATABASE UP AND
RUNNING?
MS. FAHY: THESE DATABASES ARE PRETTY READILY
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AVAILABLE. FLORIDA NOW HAS A STATEWIDE ONE, THE EU HAS ADOPTED THEM
ACROSS THE EU. THEY'RE -- THEY'RE PRETTY -- THEY'RE PRETTY WIDELY
AVAILABLE, AND THIS HAS -- THIS CAN -- THIS CAN BE 120 DAYS AFTER THIS
BECOMES LAW, YOU KNOW, IT CAN BE LAUNCHED, BUT I ASSUME ALL OF THAT
WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE DATABASE.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND HOW DOES THIS WORK IN TERMS
OF, RIGHT, WE'RE GETTING INTO A BUSY TOURISM SEASON IN A LOT OF PARTS OF
THE STATE. HOW DOES THIS WORK IN TERMS OF A LOT OF THESE, ESPECIALLY IN
-- IN COMMUNITIES IN OUR STATE THAT DO ATTRACT A LOT OF TOURISM, MAY BE
BOOKED OUT FAR IN ADVANCE? HOW -- HOW ARE EXISTING BOOKINGS TREATED
UNDER THIS? IF SOMEBODY HAS ALREADY -- SAY -- SAY THEY'VE, YOU KNOW,
USED ONE OF THESE SITES AND BOOKED A SHORT-TERM RENTAL FOR -- FOR THIS
FALL?
MS. FAHY: I WOULD SAY UNTIL THIS DATABASE GOES LIVE
AND THEY'LL BE -- I GUESS IT WILL TAKE A LITTLE WHILE TO GET THIS BILL SIGNED,
SO I THINK EVERYTHING IS -- WILL -- WILL BE CONTINGENT UPON WHEN THIS BILL
BECOMES LAW, AND THEN THERE IS THE 120 DAYS AT LEAST AFTER THAT, IF NOT
LONGER TIME, TO SET UP THE DATABASE. SO I THINK -- AND THIS IS SOMETHING
THAT -- I'VE HAD THIS BILL FOR SEVEN YEARS. THERE'S -- THERE'S A LOT OF --
THEY'LL BE A LOT OF NOTICE OUT THERE ON THIS. YOU KNOW, AND THERE ARE A
LOT OF FEES. WHEN YOU HAVE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL NOW THERE'S A LOT OF
FEES. THIS IS JUST LEVELING THE PLAYING FIELD A HOTEL, MOTEL PAYS THEIR
INCOME -- THEIR SALES TAX AS WELL AS THEIR OCCUPANCY TAX. IT WAS THE FIRST
PURPOSE OF MY GOING DOWN THIS ROAD SEVEN YEARS AGO, WAS TO LEVEL THE
PLAYING FIELD.
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MR. RA: OKAY. AND -- AND THAT'S FINE. BUT, YOU
KNOW, LET'S -- LET'S SUPPOSE THE GOVERNOR DECIDES, HEY, I'M GONNA SIGN
THIS 4TH OF JULY WEEKEND BECAUSE THAT'S A BUSY TOURISM WEEK AND, YOU
KNOW, WE PLAY THAT OUT A COUPLE OF MONTHS AND AT SOME POINT IN THE
FALL SOMEBODY HAS A BOOKING SET. DOES THE LANGUAGE OF THIS SAY THAT,
YOU KNOW, IF THAT WASN'T IN COMPLIANCE OR IF THE REGISTRY IS NOT DONE,
ANYTHING EXISTING CAN GO FORWARD OR -- OR IS IT -- OR IS THERE THE
POTENTIAL THAT SOMEBODY COULD BE IN VIOLATION OF THIS FOR SOME
TRANSACTION THEY HAVE ALREADY ENTERED INTO PRIOR TO THIS PASSING AND
BECOMING LAW?
MS. FAHY: AGAIN, EVEN -- EVEN THE 120 DAYS WOULD
PROVIDE THAT TIME FOR THE FALL, AND THAT -- THAT CAN BE -- THAT CAN BE
ADDRESSED BUT IT WILL TAKE A WHILE TO SET UP A DATABASE SUCH AS THIS.
MR. RA: OKAY.
MS. FAHY: YOU KNOW, THEY CAN'T -- WE CAN'T COLLECT
UNTIL THAT DATABASE IS THERE.
MR. RA: WELL, WE CAN'T COLLECT AND THAT'S -- THAT'S
EXACTLY WHAT MY CONCERN WOULD BE -- WOULD BE WITH AN EXISTING
BOOKING.
MS. FAHY: THERE'S -- THERE'S NOTHING -- YEAH, AND
THERE'S NOTHING IN HERE THAT PROVIDES ANY ABILITY TO BE RETROACTIVE. SO I
-- I THINK THE DATABASE MUST BE ESTABLISHED.
MR. RA: OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MS. FAHY.
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. RA: JUST QUICKLY --
MS. FAHY: SORRY, I SHOULD ALSO ADD ANY BOOKINGS --
EXCUSE ME -- ANY BOOKINGS, YOU KNOW, WOULD ONLY SUBJECT --
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. FAHY, HE'S GOING
ON THE BILL.
MR. RA: GO -- GO AHEAD.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU'VE -- YOU'VE
ANSWERED ALL THE QUESTIONS YOU COULD.
MS. FAHY: OKAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: IT'S GOING ON --
MS. FAHY: I JUST WAS TRYING TO ANSWER THAT LAST ONE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: IT'S 4 IN THE MORNING,
MS. FAHY.
MS. FAHY: OKAY. THANK YOU.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
MS. FAHY: I DIDN'T HEAR THAT AS I WAS TALKING.
THANK YOU.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. FAHY?
MS. FAHY: CERTAINLY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. FAHY YIELDS.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU. AND I APPRECIATE THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
QUESTIONS THAT YOU -- YOU JUST ANSWERED FROM MY COLLEAGUE. I'LL TRY NOT
TO BE REPETITIVE, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SOME THINGS VERY, VERY CLEAR IN
THIS LEGISLATIVE RECORD ABOUT WHAT THE INTENTION IS BECAUSE REALLY ONE OF
MY NUMBER ONE ISSUES WHICH I BELIEVE I'VE RESOLVED BUT I WANT TO JUST
CLARIFY, HAS TO DO WITH THAT LOCAL CONTROL PIECE. SO IF I HEARD YOU
CORRECTLY, WHAT YOU SAID WAS THAT THE -- THE THING THAT'S BEING CREATED
HERE IS THE STATEWIDE REGISTRY, PREVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, BEFORE ENACTMENT
REGISTRIES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN CREATED AT THE LOCAL LEVEL CAN
CONTINUE, NEW ONES CANNOT; HOWEVER, LOCALITIES WILL AND ALWAYS WILL
HAVE AN ABILITY TO MAKE THEIR OWN RULES, ADDITIONAL RULES FOR SHORT-TERM
RENTALS AND THOSE ARE NOT GONNA BE SUPERCEDED OR IMPACTED AT ALL BY
THIS LEGISLATION; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. FAHY: ABSOLUTELY. CORRECT.
MS. WALSH: AND EVEN JUST TO FURTHER CLARIFY THAT,
YOU HAD MENTIONED EARLIER THAT HEALTH AND SAFETY CONCERNS COULD BE
ADDRESSED AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, BUT I WANTED TO THROW OUT SOME OTHER
THINGS THAT A LOCALITY MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN DOING AND I'D LIKE YOUR
INSIGHT AS TO WHETHER THOSE THINGS WOULD BE WITHIN THE SCOPE AS WELL.
REQUIREMENTS THAT THE PROPERTY BE PRIMARILY OWNER-OCCUPIED, THE
NUMBER OF DAYS PER YEAR THAT A HOST COULD HOST, OTHER SAFETY ISSUES. I
KNOW THAT THE BILL TALKS ABOUT A FIRE EXTINGUISHER, YOU KNOW, AND I'LL
JUST MENTION I THINK WE -- WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THIS. THIS -- THIS SMALL
TOWN THAT I REPRESENT THAT SITS ON A LAKE HAS A LOT OF THESE RENTAL
SITUATIONS GOING ON ALREADY. LAST YEAR THERE WAS A REALLY BAD FIRE IN
ONE OF THEM, BURNT TO THE GROUND, AND IT WAS -- THANK GOD NOBODY WAS
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
KILLED. BUT THE PLACE HAD A TON OF PEOPLE INSIDE OF IT AND THEY WERE
CHARGING, I DON'T KNOW, A JET SKI OR SOMETHING IN THE BASEMENT, STARTED
A FIRE, BURNT TO THE GROUND. SO YOU TALK ABOUT FIRE CONCERNS,
ABSOLUTELY, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WAS CONCERNED. BUT THE OTHER REAL
ISSUE THAT WE HEAR ABOUT IS, LIKE, ISSUES OF QUIET ENJOYMENT, RIGHT?
MS. FAHY: YES, YES.
MS. WALSH: WHEN YOU'RE IN A LAKEFRONT --
PARTICULARLY A LAKEFRONT AREA AND YOU'VE GOT SMALLER CAMPS MAYBE THAT
ARE ALL NEXT TO EACH OTHER, IF YOU HAVE ONE THAT'S BEING USED AS A
SHORT-TERM RENTAL EVERY SINGLE DAY, WEEK AFTER WEEK, IT'S LIKE A PARTY
EVERY NIGHT. YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF NOISE COMPLAINTS, THE TOWN'S PHONE
GETS BURNED UP WITH PEOPLE CALLING TO COMPLAIN, YOU KNOW, ABOUT ALL
THAT STUFF. SO THOSE TYPES OF ISSUES WHICH GO BEYOND, YOU KNOW, PURE
SAFETY ISSUES, BUT GO TO QUIET ENJOYMENT, COULD THERE BE A NOISE
COMPONENT ADDED TO THAT? COULD THERE BE A CAPACITY? YOU HAVE
X-NUMBER OF SQUARE FEET, YOU HAVE X-NUMBER OF BEDROOMS, X-NUMBER
OF BATHS, YOU CAN ACCOMMODATE THIS NUMBER OF PEOPLE. ALL THOSE
THINGS, COULD THAT -- COULD THOSE THINGS ALL BE PART OF WHAT A LOCALITY
COULD ADD INTO THEIR LOCAL ORDINANCES WHICH THIS WOULD NOT TOUCH?
MS. FAHY: YES, ABSOLUTELY. AND WE THINK THAT'S
IMPORTANT AND I CAN CITE YOU THE SECTION, BUT YES, THEY HAVE THE FULL
ABILITY TO ADD IN -- THERE'S A NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE HERE THAT ANY
COUNTY, CITY, TOWN, VILLAGE GOVERNMENT MAY ENACT THE ADDITIONAL LOCAL
LAWS PROHIBITING OR FURTHER LIMITING THESE LISTINGS, ET CETERA.
MS. WALSH: AND THAT'S VERY COMFORTING TO ME.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
OTHER QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE, RIGHT NOW IN -- IN THE
LEGISLATION IT STATES THAT HOSTS MUST BE INSURED BY ONE LICENSED TO WRITE
INSURANCE IN NEW YORK FOR AT LEAST THE VALUE OF THE DWELLING PLUS A
MINIMUM OF $300,000 COVERAGE FOR THIRD-PARTY CLAIMS OF PROPERTY
DAMAGE OR BODILY INJURY THAT MAY ARISE FROM OPERATION AS A SHORT-TERM
RENTAL. SO THAT IS AN OBLIGATION THAT THE HOST WILL, WHAT, HAVE TO SHOW
PROOF OF TO THE -- TO THE STATE?
MS. FAHY: YES. AND WE -- WE THINK THIS IS ONE
SINCE THE MAJOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL COMPANIES SUCH AS AIRBNB AND
VRBO ALREADY HAVE A $1 MILLION POLICY WHICH WAS ADOPTED A FEW
YEARS AGO BECAUSE OF ISSUES LIKE THE FIRE YOU JUST REFERRED TO. SO THERE
-- THE MINUTE YOU ARE A HOST WITH THOSE -- THOSE BOOKING AGENCIES, YOU
AUTOMATICALLY HAVE THAT $1 MILLION. SO IT IS, YOU KNOW, THAT -- THE
BOOKING AGENCY CAN DEMONSTRATE THAT, AND SO WE -- WE THINK THIS IS
COVERED, BUT THIS IS ADDED IN CASE THERE WERE SOME -- SOMETHING OTHER
THAN A MAJOR BOOKING AGENCY.
MS. WALSH: AND MY TWO CENTS WOULD BE THAT I
THINK THAT IN A CHAPTER AMENDMENT PERHAPS, THAT -- THAT COULD BE
ELIMINATED BECAUSE IT'S -- IT'S GONNA BE BURDENSOME TO THE HOST AND
MAY DISSUADE SOME HOSTS FROM OFFERING THEIR PROPERTIES THROUGH THIS
PROGRAM, AND THAT -- THAT'S JUST MY TWO CENTS AND MY EDITORIAL
COMMENT.
MS. FAHY: YES.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO WE TALKED ABOUT THE
OBLIGATIONS OF THE HOST ARE TO REGISTER, TO CURRENTLY AT LEAST CARRY THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
INSURANCE.
MS. FAHY: YES.
MS. WALSH: TO FOLLOW ANY LOCAL RULES THAT ARE ALSO
IN PLAY.
MS. FAHY: YES.
MS. WALSH: ALL RIGHT. DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA OR IS IT
JUST SIMPLY A LOCAL ISSUE AS TO HOW THESE PROPERTIES AFTER THIS BILL IS
PASSED WOULD BE ASSESSED? WILL THEY BE ASSESSED AS COMMERCIAL
PROPERTIES? HAVE YOU -- WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN IN OTHER AREAS THAT HAVE
DONE THIS? I MEAN, ARE THEY STILL ASSESSED AS A -- AS A RESIDENCE OR DOES
-- WHERE DO WE CROSS OVER INTO IT BEING MORE OF A BUSINESS?
MS. FAHY: THIS LEGISLATION WILL NOT IMPACT THAT --
MS. WALSH: OKAY.
MS. FAHY: -- BUT AGAIN, THAT'S PART OF THE
TRANSPARENCY THAT WE ARE SEEKING HERE. WHAT A MUNICIPALITY DECIDES TO
DO WITH THIS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WILL BE UP TO THAT MUNICIPALITY.
MS. WALSH: VERY GOOD. AND MY COLLEAGUE
ALREADY COVERED KIND OF PENALTIES AND FINES SO I'LL SKIP RIGHT OVER THAT.
SO A QUESTION, A VERY BASIC QUESTION IS CAN A HOST JUST DO SHORT-TERM
RENTALS WITHOUT REGISTERING? WHAT IF THEY DON'T USE THE PLATFORMS?
WHAT IF THEY USE WORD OF MOUTH, WHAT IF THEY USE FACEBOOK
MARKETPLACE? WHAT IF THEY'VE HAD A VERY LONG -- WHICH WE SEE A LOT UP
IN SARATOGA WITH TRACK RENTALS WHERE THEY HAVE A VERY LONGSTANDING
RELATIONSHIP WITH, SAY, ANOTHER FAMILY IN ANOTHER STATE THAT COMES IN FOR
A WEEK AND ALWAYS RENTS THE SAME PLACE AND THEY JUST HAVE A
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
HANDSHAKE AGREEMENT. THEY DON'T USE THE PLATFORM. DO THEY STILL HAVE
TO REGISTER, THOSE -- THOSE HOSTS OR NOT?
MS. FAHY: THOSE -- THOSE WILL HAVE TO BE
REGISTERED. THERE IS AN EXCEPTION CLAUSE ON SOME HEALTH AND MEDICAL
TREATMENT, SO THERE IS AN EXCEPTION CLAUSE. BUT WHAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED
WOULD HAVE TO BE REGISTERED.
MS. WALSH: I SAW SOMETHING IN THERE, I THINK IT
WAS THE EXCEPTION YOU'RE REFERRING TO, THAT ALSO TALKED ABOUT IF THE -- IF
THE HOMEOWNERS, THE HOSTS ARE ON VACATION OR SOMETHING.
MS. FAHY: YES.
MS. WALSH: WELL THAT HAPPENS SOMETIMES. LIKE
UP IN SARATOGA DURING TRACK SEASON, SAY TRACK SEASON IS, WHAT, EIGHT --
EIGHT, TEN WEEKS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEY KEEP MAKING IT GROW, BUT
SAY IT'S EIGHT WEEKS. AND WHAT'LL HAPPEN IS THE HOMEOWNERS CAN MAKE
SO MUCH MONEY FROM RENTING THE PLACE FOR THE TIME THAT THEY'RE -- THAT
THEY JUST -- THEY JUST PACK UP AND LEAVE. THEY'LL GO OFF SOMEPLACE ELSE
AND TAKE A VACATION WITH THE MONEY THAT THEY'RE EARNING BY RENTING OUT
THEIR -- THEIR REAL PRIMARY RESIDENCE TO PEOPLE DURING TRACK SEASON. SO
DOES THAT -- IS THAT PART OF THAT EXCEPTION OR NO?
MS. FAHY: IF THEY ARE LOANING THEIR PLACE, IN OTHER
WORDS --
MS. WALSH: NO MONEY CAN CHANGE HANDS.
MR. FAHY: -- WHEN THERE'S NO MONEY BEING
EXCHANGED THAT'S PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE. WHERE MONEY IS EXCHANGED,
AND IN SOME AREA THIS IS A BIG BUSINESS, THEN THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THIS.
MS. WALSH: GOTCHA. OKAY, THAT'S VERY HELPFUL.
COULD A LOCALITY JUST SAY, WE DON'T WANT ANY SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN OUR
-- IN OUR TOWN OR IN OUR VILLAGE, WHEREVER? CAN THEY -- THEY CAN STILL
SAY THAT, RIGHT? IN THEIR OWN LOCAL ZONING THEY COULD JUST SAY IT'S -- IT'S
NOT A USE THAT WE'RE GONNA RECOGNIZE (INAUDIBLE).
MS. FAHY: ABSOLUTELY. THEY'RE ASKED TO JUST NOTIFY
THE STATE, BUT WE ARE SEEING -- WE'RE ALREADY SEEING THAT IN SOME AREAS,
SO, YES.
MS. WALSH: AND IF YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE TOWNS -- IF
YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE TOWNS THAT SAYS, WE DON'T WANT IT HERE, WOULD THEY
STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THAT -- THOSE MONTHLY REPORTS SO THAT MAYBE AFTER A
WHILE THEY SAY, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, WE MIGHT NOT WANT IT BUT WE
CERTAINLY SEEM TO HAVE IT ANYWAY.
MS. FAHY: ABSOLUTELY, YES.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. YOU MENTIONED THE FEE, I WILL
JUST ASK ABOUT THIS. YOU SAID IT WAS A ONE-TIME FEE, I KNOW THAT IT'S A
TWO-YEAR --
MS. FAHY: SORRY, I SHOULD SAY THAT MAY BE A ONE-
TIME ANNUAL FEE. AGAIN, THAT JUST -- IT'S A -- I SHOULD -- IN NEW YORK
I'M GOING -- I WAS REFERENCING NEW YORK CITY, I THINK THAT IS ANNUAL,
SO SORRY IF I WASN'T CORRECT.
MS. WALSH: NO, THAT'S WHY I ASKED IT, TO CLARIFY
THAT. THAT'S FINE. OKAY. I -- SO I -- I JUST WANT TO THROW THIS IDEA OUT
THERE BECAUSE THIS ANOTHER THING THAT WE SEE UP AT THE LAKE ALL THE TIME.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SAY SOMEBODY IS -- SAY SOMEBODY IS REGISTERED, A HOST IS REGISTERED
AFTER THIS IS PASSED AND THEY -- THEY HAVE SOMEBODY COME AND STAY
WITH THEM. WHEN THEY COME IN TO STAY THERE'S A LITTLE CARD ON THE -- ON
THE COUNTERTOP THAT SAYS, HEY, NEXT YEAR INSTEAD OF GOING THROUGH
AIRBNB OR VRBO, JUST GIVE ME A CALL AND WE'LL, LIKE, WE'LL WORK IT OUT
ON THE SIDE. THIS -- THIS LEGISLATION REALLY DOESN'T HELP WITH ANY OF THAT,
RIGHT? I MEAN, IT -- THAT'S GOING KIND OF BEYOND WHAT THIS LEGISLATION
DOES. THAT'S STILL GONNA BE AN ISSUE.
MS. FAHY: THE -- THE HOST WOULD BE LIABLE THERE.
MS. WALSH: WELL, BECAUSE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO
MAINTAIN THAT LOG OF WHO'S COMING IN AND --
MS. FAHY: YES.
MS. WALSH: -- HOW MUCH THEY PAID AND HOW MANY
DAYS AND ALL THAT STUFF AND -- OKAY.
MS. FAHY: YES.
MS. WALSH: SO, BUT WHO'S GONNA CALL THEM ON
THAT? I MEAN --
MS. FAHY: AGAIN, I THINK -- I THINK ONCE A
MUNICIPALITY BEGINS TO HAVE THIS, ESPECIALLY IN SMALLER MUNICIPALITIES,
THEY WILL BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND. I HEAR THIS A LOT, THAT THEY KNOW THERE
ARE ILLEGAL ONES EVEN IF THEY HAVEN'T REGISTERED. YOU KNOW, IN SOME
TOWNS WE ALREADY HAVE REQUIREMENTS FOR REGISTRATION WITH POLICE OR
FIREFIGHTERS. SO WE KNOW THAT THAT IS GOING ON AND -- AND I THINK THIS
WILL PROVIDE THEM THE INFORMATION AND THAT, YOU KNOW, WAIT A SECOND,
THEY SEE THIS IS GOING ON AT UNIT A EVEN IF THEY HAVE NO INFORMATION
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THAT IT'S -- IT'S FEEDING INTO THE DATABASE AND THEN THAT'S SOMETHING THAT
THEY CAN ENFORCE. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING, AGAIN, WE BELIEVE THIS WILL BE
VERY SELF-ENFORCING BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF VERY MOTIVATED
MUNICIPALITIES TO ACCESS THIS INFORMATION BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THIS
DATABASE NOW, WHICH IS WHY WE THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE ONE.
MS. WALSH: RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I
APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
MR. SPEAKER, VERY BRIEFLY ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MA'AM.
MS. WALSH: SO I HAVE BEEN -- I MEAN, I'VE BEEN
THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR SOME TIME. YOU KNOW, I -- I KNOW I'VE
MENTIONED BEFORE THAT I ACT AS TOWN ATTORNEY FOR THIS VERY SMALL TOWN
THAT'S SITTING ON A BEAUTIFUL LAKE THAT GETS A TON OF TOURISTS EVERY YEAR
AND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ENJOY THE PLACE. THEY'RE COMING FROM ALL
OVER -- ALL OVER THE PLACE. IT'S -- I THINK THAT -- I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY,
I -- I REMEMBER OUR TOWN SUPERVISOR HAD A NUMBER IN MIND OF HOW
MANY CAMPS AROUND THE LAKE WERE BEING USED IN THIS WAY WITH
SHORT-TERM RENTAL. IT WAS -- IT WAS A VERY SURPRISINGLY HIGH NUMBER, I
THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. THE TOWN IS IN THE PROCESS OF
REDOING THEIR -- THEIR ZONING RIGHT NOW AND CONTEMPLATING WHETHER OR
NOT THEY NEED A FULL-TIME CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR PART-TIME. AND I
WOULD SAY THAT AFTER THIS IS PASSED, IF THIS IS ALL SIGNED INTO LAW, THEY'RE
GONNA NEED A FULL-TIME ONE BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA BE VERY BUSY. I
THINK THAT THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT TO DO IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS WORK. I -- I
FEEL MUCH BETTER ABOUT THIS LEGISLATION NOW THAT I'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY
448
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TO ASK THE QUESTIONS I DID AND TO ENGAGE IN THE DEBATE THAT WE DID AS FAR
AS WHAT THE LOCALITIES ARE STILL GONNA BE DOING. I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE,
TOO, THAT A -- THAT A TOWN WOULDN'T LOSE THAT ABILITY TO CREATE REASONABLE
RULES TO MAKE SURE THAT NOT ONLY DO THE HOSTS GET THE BENEFIT, BUT THAT
ALSO THE ADJOINING LANDOWNERS AND JUST THE AREA AT-LARGE SEES THIS AS A
BENEFIT TO THE LOCAL ECONOMY AND NOT JUST A PARTY EVERY NIGHT THAT'S JUST
A REAL PAIN IN THE NECK. SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I -- I THINK THAT THIS
IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK I NEED TO SUPPORT. I MEAN, ALSO SARATOGA
SPRINGS, THIS IS A HUGE, HUGE, HUGE ISSUE, AND HAVING MET WITH AND
SPOKEN WITH THE HOSPITALITY AND TOURISM INDUSTRY, IT'S FUNDAMENTALLY
UNFAIR, I THINK, FOR HOTELS TO BE PAYING A LOT OF FEES THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS
KIND OF UNDERGROUND ECONOMY REALLY HASN'T HAD TO PAY. SO I THINK JUST
TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD I THINK THAT THIS IS REALLY AN IMPORTANT STEP.
AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE SEVENTH YEAR IS THE CHARM FOR THE SPONSOR, I
KNOW YOU'VE WORKED VERY HARD FOR THIS. AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I
WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT INSURANCE REQUIREMENT COME OUT. I THINK THAT
THAT OUGHT TO COME OUT BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT IS LARGELY UNNECESSARY
IF YOU'RE ON A PLATFORM THAT ALREADY HAS INSURANCE COVERAGE. I HOPE
THAT THAT WILL BE TAKEN OUT. BUT I THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I CAN
SUPPORT, I THINK IT'S A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. AND I DO THINK THAT
PARTICULARLY FOR, LIKE, A SMALL TOWN THAT I PROVIDE SERVICES FOR, THEY
DON'T HAVE THE MONEY, THE WHEREWITHAL OR EVEN THE DESIRE TO CREATE
SOME KIND OF A REGISTRY. THEY'VE BEEN WATCHING WITH GREAT INTEREST
AREAS LIKE I THINK LAKE GEORGE AND OTHER AREAS THAT HAVE DONE IT,
MAYBE LAKE PLACID. I -- I DON'T KNOW WHO'S DONE IT YET. BUT THEY'VE
449
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
BEEN KIND OF WATCHING. AND, YOU KNOW, FOR A VERY SMALL TOWN IT'S JUST
-- IT WAS TOO MUCH TO TACKLE. I THINK WITH THE STATE PROVIDING THE
REGISTRY AND THEN JUST WORKING ON THE LOCAL -- LOCAL ZONING AND
ENFORCEMENT ISSUES I THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY WILL DO AND
THAT THEY NEED TO DO.
SO I'LL BE SUPPORTING THIS AND I -- I REALLY DO THANK THE
SPONSOR FOR YOUR TENACITY AND FOR YOUR RESPONSES TO MY QUESTIONS.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS, ALTHOUGH WE CERTAINLY HAVE
MEMBERS THAT SUPPORT IT AS WELL. SO THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT SHOULD VOTE
YES ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE
VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE CAN
DO SO NOW.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
450
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
ON THE B-CALENDAR, PAGE 17, RULES REPORT NO. 654,
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10398-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 654, COMMITTEE ON RULES - LUPARDO, PEOPLES-STOKES,
STIRPE, WOERNER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CANNABIS LAW, IN RELATION TO
AUTHORIZING A CANNABIS SHOWCASE EVENT PERMIT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
LUPARDO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MS. LUPARDO.
MS. LUPARDO: YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. SO,
THIS BILL CREATES THE CANNABIS SHOWCASE EVENT PERMIT. AS YOU WILL
RECALL, WE HAD CREATED IN 2023 A SYSTEM TO ALLOW FOR TEMPORARY
CANNABIS MARKETS. THAT PARTICULAR PROGRAM ENDED. IT WAS AN
EXPERIMENTAL POLICY, THEY WANTED TO SEE HOW IT WOULD WORK. IT
EXPIRED ON JANUARY 1, 2024. SO THIS NEW REGULATORY PROGRAM IS GOING
TO HAVE CLEARER MECHANISMS FOR COMPLIANCE ENFORCEMENT AND A FULL SET
OF REGULATIONS DEVELOPED BY THE OFFICE OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT, AND
IT'S GOING TO PROVIDE LICENSED ADULT-USE RETAILERS THE CHANCE TO SELL THEIR
PRODUCTS AT FARMERS MARKETS, PUBLIC MARKETS AND OTHER SUCH SIMILAR
LOCATIONS IN DEMONSTRATED PARTNERSHIPS WITH LICENSED CULTIVATORS AND
451
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PROCESSORS IN COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE OPTED IN, 14-DAY PERMITS, AND
THEY WILL HAVE VERY STRICT REPORTING REGULATIONS WITH THE OFFICE OF
CANNABIS MANAGEMENT. I'D -- I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT THE REASON WE NEED TO
DO THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE SLOW ROLLOUT OF THE CANNABIS PROGRAM. MANY
OF OUR FARMERS HAVE BEEN LEFT IN A LURCH. UNFORTUNATELY, THE 2022
FARMERS, MANY OF THEIR CROPS WERE LOST WHEN -- THEY LOST VALUE BECAUSE
THEY DIDN'T HAVE THESE OPPORTUNITIES. IF THERE WERE MORE STORES THAT
HAD OPENED, IF THE PROGRAM HAD BEEN ROLLED OUT SUCCESSFULLY, WE
WOULDN'T BE IN THIS PLACE. THIS IS DONE PRIMARILY TO HELP OUR FARMERS
GET SOME INCOME IN THE PROCESS, THAT'S WHY THIS IS A TOP PRIORITY FOR THE
FARM BUREAU, WHO FIND THEMSELVES, AS I FIND MYSELF, IN A POSITION OF
HAVING TO PROTECT OUR FARMERS WHO THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN FIND
THEMSELVES WITH PRODUCT THEY'RE UNABLE TO SELL. SO I'M NOT HERE TO
DEFEND THE OVERALL OCM PROGRAM, I'M HERE TO PROTECT OUR FARMERS.
ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: MR.
GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?
MS. LUPARDO: YES, OF COURSE.
MR. GOODELL: THESE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAMS
SHOWCASE EVENTS. ARE THEY -- IS THERE A PREFERENCE GIVEN AS WITH THE
DISPENSARY LICENSES TO CRIMINALS WHO HAVE DRUG CONVICTIONS?
MS. LUPARDO: NO, THAT'S NOT PART OF THIS
WHATSOEVER. SOMEONE WHO ALREADY HAS A RETAIL LICENSE WILL PARTNER
WITH EXISTING CULTIVATORS AND PROCESSORS TO APPLY FOR A LIMITED PERMIT
452
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TO ESTABLISH A MARKET FOR ACCESSIBILITY TO CUSTOMERS WHO WANT TO ACCESS
THE LEGAL MARKET, AND FOR THOSE FARMERS WHO WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME
INCOME WHILE THEY'RE WAITING FOR THE FULL SYSTEM TO COME UP. SO
THERE'S NO PREFERENCE, IT'S A -- IT'S A SYSTEM OF COLLABORATION TO SET UP
TEMPORARY MARKETS.
MR. GOODELL: AND I APPRECIATE YOUR EXPLANATION
BOTH TIMES ON WHY YOU WANT TO DO THIS. WHEN THE CANNABIS SYSTEM
WAS ORIGINALLY STRUCTURED THERE WAS A PREFERENCE GIVEN TO DISPENSARY
LICENSES TO THOSE WHO WERE CONVICTED DRUG DEALERS OR SELLERS. AND AM
I CORRECT THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A DISPENSARY LICENSE TO OPERATE
ONE OF THESE SHOW -- SHOWCASE EVENTS?
MS. LUPARDO: WELL, THE CURRENT RETAILERS RECEIVED
THEIR LICENSES UNDER THAT -- UNDER THAT SCHEME, UNDER THAT SCHEME. AS
YOU -- AS YOU MIGHT RECALL, THE ORIGINAL BILL THAT LEGALIZED CANNABIS IN
NEW YORK STATE HAD A LIST OF GROUPS THAT WOULD HAVE RECEIVED
PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT. THE OFFICE OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT CHOSE
THAT ONE CATEGORY TO PRIORITIZE FIRST. SO, BUT NONETHELESS, THIS GROUP
THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH DO COME FROM THAT PARTICULAR GROUP OF
INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE CRIMINALLY-JUSTICE-INVOLVED, YES.
MR. GOODELL: SO I ALSO ASSUME THAT --
MS. LUPARDO: WE'RE WORKING WITHIN THE SYSTEM
THAT -- THAT WE ARE -- THAT WE ARE, YOU KNOW, (INAUDIBLE).
MR. GOODELL: AM I CORRECT THESE SHOWCASE
EVENTS COULD ONLY OCCUR IN MUNICIPALITIES THAT HAVE AUTHORIZED THE SALE
OF MARIJUANA?
453
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. LUPARDO: YES, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE
OPTED IN TO BEGIN WITH, YES.
MR. GOODELL: NOW YOU MENTIONED THAT THIS WAS
DESIGNED TO HELP FARMERS SELL THEIR CROP. AM I CORRECT THAT THE, AT LEAST
THE TEMPORARY MARIJUANA LICENSES WERE LIMITED TO ONE ACRE? IS THAT
STILL THE CASE?
MS. LUPARDO: YES. YES.
MR. GOODELL: I SEE. THANK YOU, MS. LUPARDO.
ON THE BILL.
MS. LUPARDO: YOU'RE WELCOME.
ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: ON THE BILL.
MR. GOODELL: SO AS WE DISCUSSED, THE ORIGINAL
LEGISLATION BASICALLY SAID YOU HAD TO BE A CRIMINAL IN ORDER TO GET A
LICENSE TO SELL MARIJUANA, AND IF YOU WEREN'T A CONVICTED DRUG DEALER
THEN YOU COULDN'T GET A LICENSE TO SELL. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT A LOT
OF MUNICIPALITIES LIKE TO SHOWCASE IS HAVING CONVICTED DRUG DEALERS
COME IN AND RUN A TWO-WEEK PROGRAM PROMOTING DRUG SALES IN THEIR
COMMUNITY. BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT FOR THOSE WHO OPERATE A ONE-ACRE
FARM, THIS IS ONE WAY TO GET RID OF THEIR PRODUCT. AND IN MY COUNTY WE
CALL ONE-ACRE FARMS GARDENS --
(LAUGHTER)
BUT I SUPPOSE IF YOU'RE IN THE CITY, I MEAN THE BIG
CITY, THAT MIGHT BE A FARM. ANYWAY, A LOT OF FRUSTRATION, AS MY
COLLEAGUE HAD MENTIONED, AND THE ROLLOUT AND THE WHOLE THING. I
ACTUALLY HAD SOMEONE COME INTO MY OFFICE AND SAY, HEY, I WAS
454
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARRESTED FOR SELLING DRUGS, BUT I WAS A YOUNG KID AND MY -- MY
CONVICTION WAS SEALED. CAN YOU REOPEN MY CRIMINAL CONVICTION SO I
CAN APPLY FOR A DISPENSARY LICENSE? I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN
BEFORE, AND I SUPPOSE WE'LL HAVE TO WRESTLE WITH THAT AS WE GO FORWARD.
SO A LOT OF -- LOT OF CONCERNS WITH THE MARIJUANA
ROLLOUT FOR SURE, AND FOR THAT REASON THERE IS A LOT OF NEGATIVE VOTES IN
THE -- IN THE COMMITTEES. THANK YOU AGAIN TO MY COLLEAGUE WHO IS
TRYING HER BEST TO HELP GET THOSE GARDENS SELLING THEIR PRODUCE IN
SHOWCASE EVENTS. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: READ THE
LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: A PARTY
VOTE HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. THE REPUBLICAN
CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS SHOWCASING PROPOSAL, BUT
THERE MAY BE THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT, IN WHICH CASE THEY SHOULD VOTE YES
HERE ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: MS.
SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE
MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE WHO
WISH TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE -- NEGATIVE CAN DO SO RIGHT NOW.
ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: THE CLERK
455
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
MEMBERS HAVE ON THE DESK THE C-CALENDAR, I MOVE TO ADVANCE THE
C-CALENDAR.
ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: ON MS.
SOLAGES' MOTION, THE C-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.
MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: WE WILL NOW THEN CONSENT THE
C-CALENDAR AND ALSO THE B-CALENDAR.
ACTING SPEAKER BUTTENSCHON: PAGE 3,
RULES REPORT NO. 664, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03493-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 664, PRETLOW. AN ACT IN RELATION TO APPROPRIATING FUNDS TO
THE YONKERS CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT FOR SERVICES AND EXPENSES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
456
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10456-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 665, COMMITTEE ON RULES (FAHY, MCDONALD). AN ACT IN
RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE LEASE OF CERTAIN LANDS FOR THE ALBANY
NANOTECH COMPLEX.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST
SECTION -- OH, ON A MOTION BY MS. FAHY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE
HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
ON THE B-CALENDAR, PAGE 3, RULES REPORT NO. 589,
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01588-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 589, BUTTENSCHON, GUNTHER, HEVESI, SIMON, SMULLEN,
SILLITTI, SANTABARBARA, MCDONALD, SAYEGH. AN ACT -- AN ACT -- AN ACT TO
457
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AMEND THE PUBLIC BUILDINGS LAW AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN
RELATION TO REQUIRING PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS AND BUILDINGS TO BE EQUIPPED
WITH OPIOID ANTAGONISTS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
BUTTENSCHON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 365TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01971, RULES REPORT
NO. 590, GOODELL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE UNIFORM CITY COURT ACT, IN
RELATION TO THE SELECTION OF CERTAIN CITY COURT JUDGES IN THE CITY OF
JAMESTOWN.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
GOODELL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
458
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03498-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 592, DINOWITZ. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW
AND RULES, IN RELATION TO INCREASING THE FIXED FEES FOR SERVICES PROVIDED
BY SHERIFFS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03674-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 593, PRETLOW, BURDICK, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO MEDICALLY-FRAGILE YOUNG ADULTS AND
PEDIATRIC SPECIALIZED NURSING FACILITIES.
459
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04039, RULES REPORT
NO. 594, ANGELINO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VILLAGE LAW, IN RELATION TO
EXEMPTING FIRE DEPARTMENT OFFICERS OF THE VILLAGE OF HANCOCK FIRE
DEPARTMENT FROM A NEW YORK STATE RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
ANGELINO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
460
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04974-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 595, E. BROWN. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE
COUNTY OF NASSAU ASSESSOR TO ACCEPT AN APPLICATION FOR A RETROACTIVE
REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION FROM THE CENTER FOR JEWISH LIFE OF
HEWLETT, INC.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BROWN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05167-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 596, TAGUE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO
AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF OTSEGO TO IMPOSE AN ADDITIONAL MORTGAGE
RECORDING TAX; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON
EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
TAGUE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
461
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05259-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 597, DINOWITZ, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, SEAWRIGHT, BURDICK,
EPSTEIN, COLTON, GLICK, SIMONE, CUNNINGHAM, SIMON, CARROLL, AUBRY,
BICHOTTE HERMELYN, JACKSON, GIBBS, ALVAREZ, BURGOS, ARDILA, CHANG,
LEE, TAYLOR, DAVILA, TAPIA, L. ROSENTHAL, BORES, RAJKUMAR, DAIS,
CRUZ, DE LOS SANTOS, RAGA, DICKENS, BENEDETTO, ANDERSON. AN ACT TO
AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF
THE CITY OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO INCREASING THE NUMBER OF
INTERSECTIONS WHERE TRAFFIC-CONTROL SIGNAL PHOTO VIOLATION-MONITORING
SYSTEMS MAY BE INSTALLED AND OPERATED; TO AMEND CHAPTER 746 OF THE
LAWS OF 1988, AMENDING THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, THE GENERAL
MUNICIPAL LAW AND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW RELATING TO THE CIVIL
LIABILITY OF VEHICLE OWNERS FOR TRAFFIC CONTROL SIGNAL VIOLATIONS, IN
RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; AND TO AMEND LOCAL
LAW NUMBER 46 OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK FOR THE YEAR 1989, AMENDING
THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK RELATING TO CIVIL
462
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
LIABILITY OF VEHICLE OWNERS FOR TRAFFIC CONTROL SIGNAL VIOLATIONS, IN
RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05371, RULES REPORT
NO. 598, BENDETT. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN
RELATION TO DESIGNATING THE ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICER IN THE TOWN OF SAND
LAKE AS A PEACE OFFICER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
463
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05941, RULES REPORT
NO. 599, GOODELL. AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE TOWNS OF HARMONY AND
NORTH HARMONY IN CHAUTAUQUA COUNTY TO ELECT A SINGLE TOWN JUSTICE TO
PRESIDE IN THE TOWN COURTS OF SUCH TOWNS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
GOODELL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06191-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 600, K. BROWN. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE
HALESITE FIRE DISTRICT TO FILE AN APPLICATION FOR EXEMPTION FROM REAL
PROPERTY TAXES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BROWN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
464
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06287-D, RULES
REPORT NO. 601, BROOK-KRASNY, TANNOUSIS, CHANG. AN ACT TO AMEND
THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE
HIGHWAY SYSTEM IN KINGS COUNTY AS THE "FORT HAMILTON VETERANS
MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BROOK-KRASNY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06404-C, RULES
REPORT NO. 602, J.M. GIGLIO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC OFFICER'S
LAW AND THE VILLAGE LAW, IN RELATION TO WAIVING THE LOCAL RESIDENCY
REQUIREMENT FOR THE VILLAGE CLERK AND VILLAGE TREASURER IN THE VILLAGE OF
465
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PORTVILLE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
GIGLIO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD
EXPLAIN MY VOTE, BUT FIRST I REALLY WANT TO SAY THAT THIS IS MR. GIGLIO'S
LAST BILL SINCE HE WILL BE LEAVING US SOON, WE'RE VERY SAD. I'VE REALLY
ENJOYED SERVING WITH JOE OVER THE YEARS. HE ISN'T THE MOST TALKATIVE
GUY ON THE FLOOR, BUT THAT'S NOT A BAD THING, RIGHT?
(LAUGHTER)
AND I SEE GINA -- GINA'S CLAPPING. HE'S BEEN -- HE'S
BEEN MORE JUST A -- JUST A VERY STEADY HAND, A VERY REASONABLE PERSON,
AND JUST A REAL GENTLEMAN, A VERY KIND PERSON AND SOMEBODY THAT I'VE
REALLY ENJOYED SERVING WITH. AND I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I WISH HIM
THE VERY, VERY BEST IN THE FUTURE AND I HOPE THAT WE GET TO SEE HIM
AGAIN. IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE HE WON'T BE HERE IN THE CHAMBER ANYMORE.
SO IF YOU COULD JOIN ME IN THANKING JOE FOR HIS SERVICE.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH, HE WAS
466
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MY RANKER ON CORRECTIONS AND YOU'RE WRONG, HE TALKED ALL THE TIME.
(LAUGHTER)
NEVER AGREED WITH ME, BUT ALL THE TIME. MY PLEASURE,
BEEN AN HONOR SERVING WITH YOU, SIR. HONOR.
MS. GIGLIO.
MS. GIGLIO: YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SO THIS BILL IS FOR THE BETTER GIGLIO IN THE CHAMBER
WHO HAS BEEN HERE FOR THE LONGEST TIME. I AM PROUD TO HAVE BEEN
GIGLIO J2 IN MY E-MAIL FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS, AND AS WE ARE WAIVING
THE LOCAL RESIDENCE REQUIREMENT FOR THE VILLAGE CLERK AND VILLAGE
TREASURER IN THE VILLAGE OF PORTVILLE, I WANT TO WAVE GOODBYE TO MR.
GIGLIO, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.
ARE THERE --
MR. GOODELL.
(PAUSE)
MR. GOODELL, YOU ALL RIGHT?
MR. GOODELL: I -- NO, I HAVE NOTHING -- I CAN'T
EVEN TALK.
(LAUGHTER)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WELCOME TO THE CLUB.
MR. GOODELL: I KNOW, IT'S SO SHOCKING. YEAH.
WHEN I CAME HERE, JOE WAS MY MENTOR AND 14 YEARS LATER HE STILL IS.
BUT HE'S MORE THAN A MENTOR, HE'S ALSO A FRIEND, TO THE POINT WHERE
467
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WHEN MY FIRST CAR WAS STOLEN --
(LAUGHTER)
-- HE GAVE ME A RIDE BACK TO MY APARTMENT, TALKED TO
THE PRESS, TRIED TO COVER FOR ME WITH MY WIFE. WHEN MY CAR LAST WEEK
BROKE DOWN, HE GAVE ME A RIDE HOME AND BACK HERE. BUT MOST
IMPORTANTLY, JOE IS A ROCK SOLID GUY. I MEAN, ABSOLUTELY HONEST. IF THE
DAY IS LONG YOU CAN TRUST EVERYTHING HE SAYS. HE IS A TRUE FRIEND AND A
TREMENDOUS ASSET TO OUR STATE AND OUR ASSEMBLY.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. TAGUE.
MR. TAGUE: I, TOO, WANT TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. IT'S
KIND OF TOUGH GOING TO DINNER EVERY NIGHT AFTER SESSION WITH THE GUY
THAT'S ON THE ETHICS COMMITTEE --
(LAUGHTER)
-- AND WHEN YOU START TO SAY SOMETHING AND HE PUTS
HIS HANDS OVER HIS EARS AND SAYS, I CAN'T HEAR YOU. I JUST WANT TO SAY
THAT IT'S BEEN A DISTINCT HONOR TO SERVE WITH YOU, JOE. YOU'VE BEEN A
MENTOR AND A VERY GOOD FRIEND AND I AM GONNA MISS YOU DEARLY. I JUST
WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU'VE DONE FOR ME, FOR EVERYBODY IN
OUR CONFERENCE, AND EVERYBODY IN THIS ASSEMBLY, MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR
YOUR FAMILY AND THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK. GOD BLESS YOU,
MY FRIEND, AND THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN
MY VOTE.
468
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I, TOO, WOULD
LIKE TO SAY GOODBYE TO JOE GIGLIO. HE'S BEEN MY RANKER ON THE ETHICS
COMMITTEE. WE'VE HAD SOME -- SOME INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS AND --
BUT HE IS SOMEBODY I HAVE COME TO RELY ON, TO KNOW THAT I CAN USE HIM
AS A SOUNDING BOARD AND ALWAYS TRUST HIS JUDGMENT. SO JOE, I'M GONNA
MISS YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: HEAR, HEAR.
MR. HAWLEY.
MR. HAWLEY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I DON'T
OFTEN SPEAK, BUT I WANTED TO DO THAT TONIGHT - OR THIS MORNING I SHOULD
SAY. I WAS ELECTED SEVEN MONTHS AFTER JOE GIGLIO WAS, AND I QUICKLY
ADOPTED HIM AS MY BODYGUARD. I THOUGHT THAT I NEEDED THAT. AND A
NUMBER OF US THROUGH THE YEARS HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT HE REALLY WAS
ELECTED AS AN ASSEMBLYMAN, BUT HE WAS UNDERCOVER ALL THIS TIME
WORKING FOR THE -- EITHER THE AG OR THE IG. HIS DOESN'T EMOTE TOO
MUCH, BUT I CAN TELL YOU HIS HEART IS AS BIG AS HIS -- AS HIS SOUL IS. HE'S
GOT A GREAT FAMILY, AS CHRIS TAGUE SAID, LOVELY WIFE ANN, TWIN
DAUGHTERS, AND A GREAT YOUNG SON WHO'S ON HIS WAY FOR HIS MASTER'S OUT
AT, I THINK, MINNESOTA. I CONSIDER HIM ONE OF MY VERY BEST FRIENDS IN
MY ENTIRE LIFE, AND I'M GONNA MISS HIM AS THE YEARS GO ON AND I WISH
HIM THE VERY, VERY BEST OF EVERYTHING. HE IS REALLY AN INDIVIDUAL WHO
EVERYONE SHOULD GET TO KNOW BEFORE HE LEAVES - THAT WOULD GIVE YOU
ABOUT 30 MINUTES.
(LAUGHTER)
469
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SO WITH THAT, A ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR JOE GIGLIO.
(APPLAUSE)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED, SIR.
(APPLAUSE)
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06455, RULES REPORT
NO. 603, CHANDLER-WATERMAN, HYNDMAN, TAPIA, CRUZ, GONZÁLEZ-
ROJAS, VANEL, ZINERMAN, SIMONE, FALL, COOK, JACOBSON, SHIMSKY,
ROZIC, CARROLL, OTIS, GLICK, TAYLOR, EPSTEIN, GIBBS, KIM, ANDERSON,
JACKSON, MEEKS, LUCAS, DAVILA, BROOK-KRASNY, LUNSFORD, ZACCARO,
BURDICK, STECK, ARDILA, MITAYNES, DILAN, LEVENBERG, FORREST, REYES.
AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING
THE NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT AUTHORITY TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE CONDUCTOR ON
BOARD.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07116, RULES REPORT
470
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
NO. 604, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE
CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO TEMPORARY RETAIL PERMITS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SANTABARBARA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07123-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 605, J.A. GIGLIO, THIELE, GANDOLFO, DURSO. AN ACT TO
AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE
STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE "NYPD DETECTIVE BRIAN P. SIMONSEN
MEMORIAL BRIDGE."
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
GIGLIO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
471
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. GIGLIO TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
IT'S ALWAYS A GOOD TIME TO HONOR LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND I WANT TO TELL
YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BRIAN SIMONSEN. BRIAN P. SIMONSEN WAS AN
NYPD DETECTIVE WHO SPENT HIS ENTIRE 19-YEAR CAREER AT THE 102ND
PRECINCT IN QUEENS. IN FEBRUARY OF 2019, DETECTIVE SIMONSEN
RESPONDED TO A CALL FOR AN ARMED ROBBERY. DESPITE BEING OFF DUTY, HE
RUSHED TO THE SCENE RATHER THAN LETTING HIS COLLEAGUES FACE DANGER
ALONE. DETECTIVE SIMONSEN AND HIS FELLOW OFFICERS TOOK SWIFT ACTION TO
APPREHEND THE PERPETRATOR, AND DURING THE CROSSFIRE HE WAS FATALLY
WOUNDED. DETECTIVE SIMONSEN WAS A LIFELONG RESIDENT OF RIVERHEAD,
AND A PROUD LONG ISLANDER. DESPITE THE DAILY 70-MILE COMMUTE TO HIS
PRECINCT, HE REMAINED A COMMITTED MEMBER OF HIS COMMUNITY,
CHOOSING TO SETTLE IN BAITING HOLLOW, JUST A FEW MILES FROM WHERE HE
GREW UP AND A FEW MILES FROM MY HOUSE. HIS PRECINCT IN QUEENS WAS
HIS HOME AWAY FROM HOME, AND HE'LL ALWAYS BE A WELL-KNOWN AND
DEARLY BELOVED MEMBER OF BOTH THE EAST END AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS
HE PROTECTED IN THE 102ND PRECINCT. DETECTIVE BRIAN "SMILES"
SIMONSEN OVERCAME MANY PERSONAL TRAGEDIES IN HIS 42 YEARS, EARNING
HIS NICKNAME FOR HIS TIRELESS POSITIVITY, HIS LOVE OF LIFE AND HOW HE
NATURALLY SPREAD LAUGHTER AND GOODWILL WHEREVER HE WENT. HE
EPITOMIZED THE SPIRIT OF SERVICE INSTINCTUALLY, STEPPING FORWARD TO HELP
ANYONE IN NEED, WHETHER THEY BE LOVED ONES OR COMPLETE STRANGERS. HE
DEEPLY TREASURED HIS FAMILY, HIS MANY FRIENDS, AND THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE,
472
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
LEANNE. HIS MEMORY LIVES ON IN ALL WHO LOVED HIM, AND THROUGH THE
WORK OF THE DETECTIVE BRIAN "SMILES" SIMONSEN MEMORIAL
FOUNDATION. THE FOUNDATION'S MISSION IS TO SMILE AND DO GOOD, AS
DETECTIVE SIMONSEN ALWAYS DID. SINCE MAY OF 2019, THE FOUNDATION
HAS BEEN DOING CHARITABLE WORK AND COMMUNITY SERVICE EVENTS FOR
CHILDREN, ANIMALS, AND THOSE IN FINANCIAL NEED BOTH ON THE EAST END OF
LONG ISLAND AND IN THE 102ND PRECINCT IN QUEENS. THIS LEGISLATION WILL
HONOR DETECTIVE BRIAN "SMILES" SIMONSEN BY DEDICATING THE HALSEY
MANOR ROAD BRIDGE ON THE LONG ISLAND EXPRESSWAY IN HIS MEMORY,
DEMONSTRATING TO HIS LOVED ONES THAT HIS SERVICE WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN
BY THE STATE OF NEW YORK. SUCH MEMORIALS ALSO SHOW OUR HEROES THAT
THE COMMUNITIES THEY PROTECT ARE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL FOR THEIR SERVICE,
AND IF CALLED TO MAKE THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE, THEIR LEGACY WILL ENDURE
THE TEST OF TIME.
SO IT MAY BE 5:35 IN THE MORNING, BUT I ASK ALL MY
COLLEAGUES TO PLEASE HAVE A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOR DETECTIVE BRIAN
"SMILES" SIMONSEN. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I THINK WE SHOULD
STAND, WE NEED A LITTLE EXERCISE.
(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
(APPLAUSE)
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07188, RULES REPORT
473
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
NO. 606, GUNTHER, SANTABARBARA, WALSH, BRONSON, BUTTENSCHON,
PALMESANO, BLANKENBUSH, MANKTELOW. AN ACT TO AMEND THE MENTAL
HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE RURAL SUICIDE PREVENTION
COUNCIL; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON
EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
GUNTHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07280-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 607, PALMESANO, BYRNES. AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY
OF STEUBEN TO OFFER AN OPTIONAL 25-YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN TO ERICA M.
MCCOY, A DEPUTY SHERIFF EMPLOYED BY SUCH COUNTY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
PALMESANO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
474
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07544-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 608, RA, MCDONOUGH. AN ACT GRANTING RETROACTIVE
MEMBERSHIP WITH TIER IV STATUS IN THE NEW YORK STATE AND LOCAL
EMPLOYEES' RETIREMENT SYSTEM TO DAWN WARD.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
RA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07572-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 609, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND
SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO ELIGIBILITY FOR PARTICIPANTS IN THE
475
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AUTOMOTIVE 25-YEAR/AGE 50 PENSION PLAN WITH MORE THAN 30 YEARS OF
CREDITED SERVICE WHO REMAIN IN ACTIVE SERVICE AFTER AGE 62 TO RECEIVE A
SERVICE RETIREMENT BENEFIT EQUIVALENT TO THE STANDARD SERVICE RETIREMENT
BENEFIT RECEIVED BY TIER IV MEMBERS WITH THE SAME AGE AND SERVICE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07681-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 610, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL
MUNICIPAL LAW, IN RELATION TO ALLOWING CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE NEW
YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT PENSION FUND TO RECEIVE A MEMBERSHIP
DATE IN THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT PENSION FUND ATTRIBUTABLE
TO SERVICE IN THE TITLES OF POLICE CADET PROGRAM OR POLICE CADET
PROGRAM II IN THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT CADET PROGRAM.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
476
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07844-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 611, DURSO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN
RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS
"CHARLIE BUNGER, SR. WAY."
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07954-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 612, SIMON, COOK, DINOWITZ, GUNTHER, HUNTER, LAVINE,
MAGNARELLI, RAMOS, RIVERA, L. ROSENTHAL, REYES, BENEDETTO, CRUZ,
EPSTEIN, COLTON, PAULIN, SILLITTI, JEAN-PIERRE, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, SMITH,
FORREST, JACKSON, SIMONE, HEVESI, LUNSFORD, LEVENBERG, SANTABARBARA,
477
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
LUPARDO, DESTEFANO, DAVILA, CLARK, BURDICK, ARDILA, STECK, SHRESTHA,
SEAWRIGHT, DICKENS, CURRAN, K. BROWN, SHIMSKY. AN ACT TO AMEND
THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO CREATING A
WHOLESALE PRESCRIPTION DRUG IMPORTATION PROGRAM.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
SIMON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 547TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. GOODELL: MR. SPEAKER, I APOLOGIZE. PLEASE
WITHDRAW THE VOTE AND LAY THIS BILL ASIDE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE ROLL CALL HAS BEEN
REQUESTED TO BE WITHDRAWN AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07956-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 613, DIPIETRO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN
RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE "T
SGT. WALTER SHEARING MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
DIPIETRO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
478
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08036-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 614, STIRPE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CANAL LAW, IN RELATION TO
ESTABLISHING A STAKEHOLDER GROUP TO COORDINATE WATER RELEASE IN THE
OSWEGO RIVER BASIN.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
STIRPE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08127-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 615, RA. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF
NASSAU ASSESSOR TO ACCEPT AN APPLICATION FOR A REAL PROPERTY TAX
479
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
EXEMPTION FROM INNOVATIVE RESOURCES FOR INDEPENDENCE.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
RA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08335, RULES REPORT
NO. 616, BARCLAY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW, IN
RELATION TO PERMITTING THE FULTON CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT TO ESTABLISH AN
INSURANCE RESERVE FUND.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BARCLAY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
480
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08575, RULES REPORT
NO. 617, GOODELL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PARKS, RECREATION AND HISTORIC
PRESERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE USE OF SNOWMOBILES ON
THE RIGHT-OF-WAY OF CERTAIN PUBLIC HIGHWAYS WITHIN THE VILLAGE OF
BEMUS POINT IN CHAUTAUQUA COUNTY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
GOODELL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. ANGELINO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FOR AS LONG AS I LIVE, ONE OF THE MOST PROFOUND
THINGS I WILL BE ABLE TO SAY IS I SERVED IN THE NEW YORK STATE
LEGISLATURE WITH THE GREAT ANDY GOODELL. I'LL VOTE YES.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH. I'M
SORRY. IS THAT -- ARE YOU LAYING THE BILL ASIDE? NO? I'M SORRY.
(LAUGHTER)
MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. WALSH: I WAS THREATENED TO NOT STAND UP, SO
481
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
YOU KNOW THAT MAKES ME WANT TO DO IT EVEN MORE. SO, I DON'T KNOW, I
MEAN, WE ALL PROBABLY HAVE AT LEAST A FEW STORIES TO TELL ABOUT ANDY
GOODELL. BUT - I WILL BE CAREFUL - THERE ARE SO MANY INSIDE JOKES THAT I
CANNOT SAY BECAUSE WE ARE PROBABLY BEING FILMED AT THIS POINT, BUT NO,
REALLY, I THINK WHEN I FIRST STARTED HERE MY HUSBAND TOLD ME, YOU KNOW,
GO -- GO FIND ANDY GOODELL BECAUSE HE'S REALLY SMART, AND TRY TO -- TRY
TO JUST HANG OUT WITH HIM AND YOU'RE GONNA LEARN A LOT. AND SO I WENT
OVER TO ANDY AND, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, BEING THE PERSON I AM, I SAID, I
HEARD YOU'RE REALLY SMART. I'M GONNA JUST KIND OF HANG OUT WITH YOU
AND LEARN SOME THINGS. AND -- AND THAT WAS KIND OF HOW WE FIRST MET.
BUT I MEAN, I -- I MEAN, I THINK YOU CAN TELL, LIKE, WHAT'S GOING ON UP
HERE, THERE'S -- THERE'S A LOT GOING ON. I -- I MEAN, I'M AMAZED AT WHAT
HE CAN DO THAT I DON'T THINK A LOT OF US COULD DO. THE -- THE ABILITY TO
JUST GRAB ONE OF THESE PACKETS AND JUST GET UP ON YOUR FEET AND BE ABLE
TO MAKE THE POINTS THAT HE MAKES, AND ALWAYS COMING AT IT FROM SUCH
AN INTERESTING ANGLE, I MEAN, WILL WE EVER THINK ABOUT THE NEW YORK
STATE CONSTITUTION THE SAME WAY EVER AGAIN AFTER KNOWING ANDY? I
MEAN, HE JUST HAS SUCH AN INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE AND JUST BRINGS SO
MUCH OF HIS PRIVATE PRACTICE EXPERIENCE HERE, TOO. AND, I MEAN, HE
GETS UP AND HE TELLS THE WORST DAD JOKES, ABSOLUTELY THE WORST, AND WE
ALL ARE GROANING OVER HERE HALF THE TIME. BUT I'LL REALLY, REALLY MISS
YOU. AND THIS IS NOT A WAKE, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOU KNOW, I -- I
WILL REALLY, REALLY MISS HIM. AND THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT HEARING YOUR
VOICE, MR. AUBRY, AND -- AND HEARING ANDY AND JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT
WHOLE RHYTHM AND FLOW OF THIS PLACE THAT IS ONLY THING I KNEW SINCE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
I'VE BEEN HERE IS -- IS CHANGE -- IT'S GONNA BE CHANGED, SO IT'S HARD. BUT
HE'S GOT A BOAT TO WORK ON AND HE'S GOT A LOVELY WIFE AND CHILDREN AND
GRANDCHILDREN AND THINGS TO DO. AND, YOU KNOW, I'M HAPPY FOR HIM,
AND I'M SAD FOR US. BUT I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST, AND I HAVE LEARNED SO
MUCH, BUT WILL NEVER REALLY BE ABLE TO FILL THOSE SHOES, SO...
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GIGLIO.
MR. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THERE IS NO
FINER HUMAN BEING ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH THAN ANDY GOODELL, NO DOUBT
ABOUT IT. BUT I'M GONNA TELL YOU A STORY THAT'S MY FAVORITE STORY OF ALL
THE THINGS WE'VE BEEN THROUGH TOGETHER. HE MENTIONED WHEN HIS CAR
GOT STOLEN. WELL, ABSOLUTELY, WE WALKED DOWN THERE, WE FOUND OUT HIS
CAR WAS GONE. I ASKED HIM, ANDY, DID YOU LEAVE THE KEYS IN THE CAR?
AND THE WAY ONLY ANDY COULD SAY IS, YEAH.
(LAUGHTER)
BUT THE -- THE BOTTOM LINE WAS THIS, AND THIS WILL
DESCRIBE ME MORE THAN ANDY. I TAKE HIM BACK TO HIS APARTMENT AND HE
STARTS WALKING UP THE DRIVEWAY AND HE CALLS HIS WIFE JUST AS HE'S GETTING
OUT OF THE CAR. AND EVERY YOUNG MAN WILL KNOW HOW WE WERE WHEN
WE WERE PRE-TEENS WHEN SOMEBODY WAS ABOUT TO GO HOME AND THEIR
MOTHER WAS WAITING FOR THEM.
(LAUGHTER)
SO AS THE CHEAP-SHOT ARTIST I AM, I OPENED THE WINDOW
AND PARKED AND LISTENED TO HIM TRY TO EXPLAIN TO LISA WHAT HAD JUST
HAPPENED. I AM NOT EVEN REMOTELY SAD THAT I SAY THIS, I COULDN'T STOP
483
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
LAUGHING AS I DROVE AWAY.
(LAUGHTER)
AND I TOLD HIM THAT THE NEXT MORNING. I ALSO TOLD HIM
I THINK WE HAD A CHANCE AT A NEW CAREER, "DUDE, SOMEONE STOLE MY
CAR."
(LAUGHTER)
AND NOW THAT WE'RE BOTH RETIRING TOGETHER, WE'RE
GONNA DO "DUDE, SOMEONE STOLE MY CAR II" BECAUSE WE'VE GOT
NOTHING ELSE TO DO. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, I'LL SAY IT ONE MORE
TIME, FROM THE DAY HE STARTED RUNNING TO TODAY, HE IS AN AMAZING
PERSON. AND IT IS A -- YOU GUYS THINK HE'S SMART, OF COURSE HE'S SMART.
BUT HIS HEART IS UNMATCHED, TRUST ME. HE IS THE KINDEST INDIVIDUAL YOU
WILL EVER MEET. HE IS KIND, COMPASSIONATE AND CARING, AND HE WOULD
GIVE ME SOME POINTS FOR COMPASSIONATE BECAUSE HIM AND I HAVE HAD
THIS DISCUSSION OFTEN. AND SO I CAN SAY UNEQUIVOCALLY, I AM A MUCH
BETTER PERSON FOR HAVING WORKED WITH ANDY GOODELL. THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA TO EXPLAIN HIS
VOTE.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'M NOW
SOMEWHAT REGRETTING HAVING TO GO AFTER MR. GIGLIO, BUT IN JANUARY OF
2011, A 29-YEAR-OLD KID, ME, WHO HAD JUST GOTTEN ELECTED TO THE STATE
ASSEMBLY, GOT PUT IN AN OFFICE ON THE 5TH FLOOR OF THE LEGISLATIVE
OFFICE BUILDING NEXT TO MR. GOODELL, AND SPENT MANY DAYS BEFORE
SESSION, AFTER SESSION, TALKING ABOUT THINGS. IT WAS LIKE, THIS GUY WAS
484
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE OF HIS COUNTY, I -- YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T KNOW
WHICH WAY WAS UP. I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE
RESTROOM WAS, AND I LEARNED FROM HIM. FOR SEVEN YEARS WE HAD OUR
OFFICES NEXT TO EACH OTHER, FOR ANOTHER TWO I GOT TO SIT NEXT TO HIM HERE
ON THE FLOOR AS -- AS ASSISTANT FLOOR LEADER TO HIM, AND I DON'T KNOW
THAT ANYTHING COULD HAVE IMPACTED MY CAREER HERE MORE THAN THE FACT
THAT I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH THAT I GOT PUT IN THAT OFFICE NEXT TO THIS MAN
WAY BACK IN JANUARY OF 2011. WE ALL KNOW HIS WIT, WE ALL KNOW HIS
INTELLIGENCE. AS MR. GIGLIO SAID, HE HAS A HEART OF GOLD, HE CARES ABOUT
ALL OF THE MEMBERS HERE. AND WHEN YOU SIT IN THIS AREA, WHETHER IT WAS
NEXT TO HIM OR EVEN, YOU KNOW, THE LAST FIVE YEARS BEHIND HIM, I WATCH
ALL OF YOU WHETHER YOU'RE ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE OR ON THE OTHER SIDE
OF THE AISLE COMING OVER AND SAYING, HEY, WHY'D YOU LAY MY BILL ASIDE?
BUT HE APPROACHES IT WITH CARE, WITH COMPASSION, AND REALLY JUST WANTS
TO HELP MAKE THE BILL THE BEST IT CAN BE FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THIS STATE.
THERE'S TRULY NOBODY LIKE HIM. I -- I WILL, I THINK, WITH
PRIDE IN THE FUTURE LOOK FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO RAISE NEW YORK STATE
CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES ON HIS BEHALF, AND I THINK HE JUST HANDED THAT
BOOK TO MARY BETH. WHEN OUR COLLEAGUE TOM MCKEVITT LEFT, WE STILL
HAVE A BOOK OF RULES DOWN THERE THAT WE CALL "THE MCKEVITT FLOOR
BOOK." WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO LABEL THE CONSTITUTION "THE ANDY
GOODELL CONSTITUTION BOOK" SO WE CAN REFER TO IT ON -- ON OUR FLOOR
DEBATES.
SO ANDY, ALL THE BEST TO YOU AND --
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU.
485
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MR. RA: ALL THE BEST TO YOU AND LISA. THANK YOU
FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE DONE FOR ME, FOR YOUR DISTRICT AND FOR OUR
STATE. GOD BLESS YOU, SIR.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. HAWLEY TO
EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. HAWLEY: INDEED. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
A LOT'S BEEN ALREADY SAID ABOUT ANDY AND EVERY BIT OF IT'S TRUE. HE IS
THE ANDY GRIFFITH, THE RUMPLED LAWYER FROM JAMESTOWN, NEW YORK;
MOST OF YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THAT IS, BUT LUCILLE BALL WAS FROM THAT
AREA, AND THERE'S A GREAT COMEDY -- COMEDY THEATER THERE AND A
MUSEUM. SOME OF YOU ALSO MAY KNOW THAT HIS FIRST COUSIN IS ROGER
GOODELL, THE NFL COMMISSIONER -- ANDY DOESN'T LIKE TO NECESSARILY
TALK ABOUT THAT AT ALL -- AND HIS FAMILY IS VERY WELL-KNOWN. THE LAW
FIRM IS HIGHLY RESPECTED, AS HE IS, NOT JUST FOR HIS PROWESS AND LEGAL
EXPERTISE, BUT HIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE CONSTITUTION AS WAS JUST TALKED
ABOUT. HE ACTUALLY -- WE'VE ALL HEARD ABOUT THE INCIDENT OF THE CAR
BEING STOLEN WITH THE KEYS STILL IN THE CAR, AND SOME PEOPLE MAY
WONDER WHETHER THAT'S COVERED BY YOUR INSURANCE OR NOT IF YOU LEAVE
YOUR KEYS IN YOUR CAR. THE ANSWER TO THAT IS ABSOLUTELY, IT IS. HE COST
ME A LOT OF MONEY, I INSURED THAT CAR.
(LAUGHTER)
SO WITH THAT, I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THERE WILL NEVER BE
ANOTHER ANDY GOODELL HERE IN THESE CHAMBERS. THE SHOES ARE HUGE TO
FILL, AND THERE'S NEVER BEEN ANYBODY LIKE HIM BEFORE THIS, AS WELL. SO
486
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
TO ANDY I SAY TO YOU, MY FRIEND, BEST OF LUCK. I LOVE -- I LOVE YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU SO MUCH. I'M STARTING
TO FEEL LIKE I'M AT MY WAKE. CAN WE CALL THE NEXT BILL?
BUT FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, IT HAS BEEN SUCH AN
HONOR TO BE WITH YOU. TO SEE PEOPLE FROM ALL ACROSS NEW YORK STATE
COME TOGETHER HERE IN ALBANY WITH THE BEST INTENTIONS TO MAKE OUR
STATE BETTER. ALL OF YOU HAVE BEEN ENTRUSTED BY YOUR VOTERS IN EACH OF
YOUR DISTRICTS, AND EACH OF YOU HAVE BROUGHT YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE AND
YOUR OWN KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR OWN PERSPECTIVE, ALL WITH A FOCUS OF
MAKING THIS A BETTER STATE. AND WHAT COULD BE BETTER THAN TO BE ABLE TO
COME UP HERE AND SEE THE SUN RISE HERE IN ALBANY WITH YOU?
(LAUGHTER)
EXCEPT, OF COURSE, SEEING THE SUN RISE WITH MY WIFE.
BUT FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, THANK YOU ALL FOR ALL OF YOUR
COURTESIES. AND, YOU KNOW, JUST A LITTLE BIT OF A CONFESSION. WHEN YOU
THINK I KNOW SOMETHING, YOU'RE ACTUALLY MISTAKEN. AS -- AS ALL OF US
OVER HERE KNOW, WE HAVE A PHENOMENAL STAFF THAT BACKS US. AND I'LL
PICK UP A BILL PACKET, IT'LL HAVE FACTS AND KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION
THAT I NEVER KNEW WHEN I LEFT MY HOUSE THAT MORNING, THAT ENABLES ME
TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, BRING A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE AND
HELP MOVE US FORWARD. AND TO HELP ME, OUR LEADERSHIP ASSIGNED A
FULL-TIME PERSON JUST TO MAKE SURE I WAS DEBATING THE RIGHT BILL AT THE
RIGHT TIME, THAT I KNEW WHO WAS NEXT; THANK YOU, MICHELLE.
(APPLAUSE)
487
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SO TO MY STAFF, ALL THE SUPPORT STAFF, MARY BETH WHO
FILLS IN, WILL BARCLAY WHO GAVE ME THIS OPPORTUNITY, STEPHANIE, WHO
WAKES ME UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT TO REMIND ME THAT I WAS
SUPPOSED TO LAY ASIDE A BILL. THANK YOU, STEPHANIE, WHEREVER YOU ARE.
TOM KRAUS WHO'S QUICK TO RUN OUT HERE TO CORRECT MY MISTAKES ON
POLITICAL MATTERS. ALL OF YOU, FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, THANK YOU
SO MUCH FOR LETTING ME BE WITH YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: IF YOU THOUGHT IT WAS
OVER, IT ISN'T.
MR. TAGUE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. TAGUE: WELL, WE SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST, RIGHT,
MR. SPEAKER?
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AMEN.
MR. TAGUE: ANDY, I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU.
THANK YOU FOR TEACHING A YOUNG FARM KID THAT DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING
ABOUT THE LAW, I APPRECIATE IT. KEEPING ME CALM, COOL AND COLLECTED IN
PRAYER BREAKFASTS. AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO FIND
SOMEBODY THAT JUST ORDERS DESSERT AT DINNER OR NOT. BUT YOU KNOW I
HAD FUN WHEN WE WENT UP TO YOUR HOME COUNTY IN CHAUTAUQUA AND WE
DID THE FARM TOUR, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR FRIENDSHIP AND SUPPORT FOR AS
LONG AS I'VE BEEN HERE. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN SAY ANYTHING ANY BETTER
THAN ED OR JOE OR MR. HAWLEY, BUT I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU AND I
THINK THAT EVERYBODY IN THIS CHAMBER OWES YOU A GREAT DEBT OF
GRATITUDE, AND SO DO THE PEOPLE IN NEW -- NEW YORK STATE BECAUSE
488
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
YOU'VE ALWAYS STUCK UP FOR WHAT'S RIGHT AND WHAT'S FAIR AND EQUITABLE,
AND THE CONSTITUTION. AND GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, MY FRIEND,
AND I'M GONNA MISS YOU. THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
MR. GOODELL: SIR, WILL YOU PLEASE CALL THE NEXT
BILL?
(LAUGHTER)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
(APPLAUSE)
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08868, RULES REPORT
NO. 618, BARCLAY, DESTEFANO, SIMPSON, ANGELINO, DURSO, NORRIS,
MCDONOUGH, BRABENEC, COLTON, SAYEGH, GUNTHER, SMULLEN, FAHY, J.A.
GIGLIO. AN ACT TO DEEM AN APPLICATION FILED WITH THE NEW YORK STATE
AND LOCAL POLICE AND FIRE RETIREMENT SYSTEM BY THE WIDOW OF PAUL C.
ADAM AS TIMELY FILED.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BARCLAY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
489
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08882, RULES REPORT
NO. 619, BYRNES, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING
MICHAEL KURTZ TO TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATION FOR
THE POSITION OF POLICE OFFICER AND BE PLACED ON THE ELIGIBLE IST FOR
EMPLOYMENT AS A FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER FOR THE VILLAGE OF WARSAW.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
BYRNES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08898-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 620, MORINELLO. AN ACT IN AUTHORIZING -- AN ACT IN RELATION
TO AUTHORIZING THE CITY OF NIAGARA FALLS TO DISCONTINUE THE USE OF
CERTAIN PARKLANDS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
490
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MORINELLO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09052, RULES REPORT
NO. 621, BRABENEC. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO
AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF WAWAYANDA TO IMPOSE A HOTEL AND MOTEL TAX;
AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION
THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BRABENEC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
491
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09091, RULES REPORT
NO. 622, DIPIETRO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW, IN
RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE IROQUOIS CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT TO ESTABLISH
AN INSURANCE RESERVE FUND.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
DIPIETRO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09130-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 623, NORRIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL
CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING HUNTING BIG GAME BY RIFLE
IN THE COUNTY OF NIAGARA; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH
PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
NORRIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
492
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09141, RULES REPORT
NO. 624, RAMOS, FORREST. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING CHURCH OF
THE LIVING GOD PILLAR AND GROUND TO FILE AN APPLICATION FOR EXEMPTION
FROM REAL PROPERTY TAXES FOR CERTAIN ASSESSMENT ROLLS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
RAMOS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09205-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 625, BUTTENSCHON, LEVENBERG, EACHUS, MEEKS, DINOWITZ,
BERGER, FALL, JONES, WILLIAMS, WOERNER, SILLITTI, SAYEGH, TAPIA,
493
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
DARLING, ZINERMAN, JACOBSON, SANTABARBARA, HUNTER, SIMON,
MAGNARELLI, GUNTHER, MCMAHON, PRETLOW, CLARK, ZACCARO, LEE. AN ACT
TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO EXPANDING ELIGIBILITY UNDER
THE VETERANS TUITION AWARDS PROGRAM.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
BUTTENSCHON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09263, RULES REPORT
NO. 626, DIPIETRO. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 185 OF THE LAWS OF 2005,
AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF WYOMING
TO IMPOSE A COUNTY RECORDING TAX ON OBLIGATIONS SECURED BY A
MORTGAGE ON REAL PROPERTY, IN RELATION TO THE EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
DIPIETRO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
494
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09273-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 627, SLATER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW,
IN RELATION TO PERMITTING THE TOWN OF KENT, PUTNAM COUNTY, TO LEASE
CERTAIN SPORTS FIELD FENCES FOR ADVERTISEMENTS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SLATER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09399, RULES REPORT
NO. 628, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF
THE CITY OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR
SURVIVING SPOUSES OR DOMESTIC PARTNERS OF MEMBERS OF THE NEW YORK
495
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYED AS FIRE PROTECTION INSPECTORS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09523, RULES REPORT
NO. 629, SEAWRIGHT, ANDERSON, ZINERMAN. AN ACT RELATING TO ASSESSING
THE STAFFING AND OTHER ISSUES CAUSING THE CONTINUED DISPLACEMENT OF
INDIVIDUALS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES FROM VARIOUS
STATE-OPERATED INSTITUTIONS UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE OFFICE FOR
PEOPLE WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
SEAWRIGHT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
496
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09576-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 630, MCDONOUGH. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE
JOHN THEISSEN CHILDREN FOUNDATION, INC. TO RECEIVE RETROACTIVE REAL
PROPERTY TAX-EXEMPT STATUS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
MCDONOUGH, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09690-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 631, MAHER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VILLAGE OF
WASHINGTONVILLE DEFICIT FINANCING ACT, IN RELATION TO THE ISSUANCE OF
CERTAIN BONDS.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MR.
497
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
MAHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09725, RULES REPORT
NO. 632, BLUMENCRANZ. AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF NASSAU
ASSESSOR TO ACCEPT AN APPLICATION FOR A REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION
FROM THE KOREAN EVANGELICAL CHURCH.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION -- ON A
MOTION BY MR. BLUMENCRANZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE
SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
498
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09806, RULES REPORT
NO. 633, CONRAD. AN ACT TO AMEND THE JUDICIARY LAW, IN RELATION TO
REQUIRING TOWN AND VILLAGE COURTS COMPENSATE TEMPORARY INTERPRETERS
FOR DEAF OR HARD-OF-HEARING PERSONS.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MR.
CONRAD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID -- LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09836, RULES REPORT
NO. 634, BARCLAY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, IN
RELATION TO PERMITTING THE ELECTRONIC APPEARANCE OF A DEFENDANT IN THE
COUNTY OF OSWEGO.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BARCLAY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09846-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 635, BENDETT, MCDONALD. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY
LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM
499
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
AS THE "ASSEMBLYMAN PAT M. CASALE MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BENDETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. BENDETT TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. BENDETT: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. IT'S MY
HONOR TO SPONSOR THIS BILL DEDICATING A SECTION OF OUR STATE HIGHWAY
SYSTEM TO A DISTINGUISHED MEMBER OF OUR RENSSELAER COUNTY
COMMUNITY AND FORMER MEMBER OF THIS BODY, PAT CASALE. PAT GREW UP
RIGHT ACROSS THE RIVER IN TROY AND GRADUATED FROM LASALLE INSTITUTE IN
1953 BEFORE SERVING IN THE U.S. ARMY DURING THE KOREAN WAR. AFTER
HE RETURNED HOME, PAT WORKED FOR A BUTCHER -- AS A BUTCHER AT THE A&P
TO PUT HIMSELF THROUGH COLLEGE AT HUDSON VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
HE THEN BEGAN A CAREER IN PUBLIC SERVICE AS A MEMBER OF THE TROY CITY
COUNCIL WHERE HE SPEARHEADED A COMMITTEE TO ERECT TROY'S FAMOUS
UNCLE SAM MONUMENT AND WAS ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF TROY'S FLAG DAY
PARADE. PAT WENT ON TO BECOME THE MAYOR OF THE CITY OF TROY, THE
RENSSELAER COUNTY CLERK AND A NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLYMAN FROM
THE 108TH DISTRICT. DURING HIS TIME IN THE ASSEMBLY HE REPRESENTED A
WIDE AREA THAT INCLUDED MOST OF RENSSELAER COUNTY AND PARTS OF
500
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
SARATOGA, ALBANY, GREENE AND COLUMBIA COUNTIES. PAT AND HIS FAMILY
HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF PUBLIC SERVICE, AND HIS SON DAN IS A COUNTY
LEGISLATOR IN RENSSELAER COUNTY, TOWN OF BRUNSWICK BOARD MEMBER,
AS WELL AS WORKS WITH SENATOR ASHBY.
IT'S AN HONOR TO HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO MEMOR -- TO
MEMORIALIZE HIM HERE TODAY. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: MR. MCDONALD.
MR. MCDONALD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. AND I
WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUE MR. BENDETT FOR SPONSORING THIS
LEGISLATION. AND I JUST WANT TO ADD, YOU KNOW, I KNEW PAT CASALE FOR A
LONG PERIOD OF TIME AND, FRED, I KNOW YOU SERVED WITH HIM, I KNOW
SOME OF THE MEMBERS WHO'VE GOT A LITTLE GRAY ON THE -- ON THE HEAD
HAVE SERVED WITH HIM AS WELL. AND FRED WAS HERE -- FRED -- PAT WAS
HERE, JUST YOUR AVERAGE GUY. YOU KNOW, HE OWNED A LIQUOR STORE, SO IF
YOU OWN A LIQUOR STORE YOU KNOW EVERYBODY IN TOWN. BUT WHAT I
ALWAYS LOVED ABOUT HIM IS THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE MAYBE SOME OF US
IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TEND TO GET A LITTLE ANGRY WITH OUR GOVERNOR
ONCE IN A WHILE IN THE SAME PARTY. WELL, AS A KID WHO FOLLOWED
POLITICS BACK THEN, IT WAS DURING THE PATAKI ADMINISTRATION, I
REMEMBER PAT WAS VERY OUTSPOKEN. HE SPENT MORE TIME FIGHTING WITH
GOVERNOR PATAKI AT THAT TIME THAN I THINK THAT ACTUALLY SHELLY SILVER
WAS, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. SO, YOU KNOW, HE WAS A GREAT MAN. YOU
KNOW, ONE OF US, WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, A PERSON WHO REALLY
REPRESENTED THE PEOPLE. I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY
TO HONOR HIM WITH THIS GREAT DESIGNATION. THANK YOU.
501
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09847-C, RULES
REPORT NO. 636, BENDETT. AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF KINDERHOOK
TO TRANSFER OWNERSHIP OF CERTAIN PARKLAND TO THE VALATIE VOLUNTEER
RESCUE SQUAD, INC.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BENDETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09893, RULES REPORT
NO. 637, BYRNES. AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE COMMISSIONER OF GENERAL
SERVICES TO TRANSFER AND CONVEY CERTAIN STATE LAND TO THE LIVINGSTON
COUNTY WATER & SEWER AUTHORITY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MS.
502
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
BYRNES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09895, RULES REPORT
NO. 638, MAHER, BRABENEC. AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE LEE WEINSTEIN TO
RECEIVE CERTAIN SERVICE CREDIT UNDER SECTION 384-D OF THE RETIREMENT
AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MR.
MAHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. THE HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
503
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09911-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 639, TAGUE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO
ESTABLISHING AN OCCUPANCY TAX IN THE VILLAGE OF CATSKILL; AND PROVIDING
FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MR.
TAGUE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09916, RULES REPORT
NO. 640, TAGUE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION
TO WAIVING THE RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT FOR CERTAIN COUNTY ATTORNEY
POSITIONS WITHIN GREENE COUNTY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MR.
TAGUE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
504
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09939, RULES REPORT
NO. 641, PRETLOW. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 783 OF THE LAWS OF 1974,
RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF MOUNT
VERNON TO ADOPT BY LOCAL LAW PROVISIONS RELATING TO THE
COMMENCEMENT OF A FORECLOSURE IN REM BY THE CITY OF MOUNT VERNON
WHERE THE PAYMENT OF TAXES, ASSESSMENTS AND OTHER CHARGES ARE IN
ARREARS FOR A PERIOD OF TIME IN EXCESS OF TWO YEAS, IN RELATION TO THE
OFFERING OF INSTALLMENT PAYMENT PLANS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF
SUCH PROVISION UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ON A MOTION BY MR.
PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
505
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09957, RULES REPORT
NO. 642, BYRNES. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING MARK BARNHART,
DAVID SKINNER AND JAMES PAPPAS TO TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE
EXAMINATION AND BE PLACED ON THE ELIGIBLE CIVIL SERVICE LIST FOR
EMPLOYMENT AS A FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER FOR THE WAYLAND POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE HOME RULE
MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. GOODELL.
MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I THINK
IT'S A GREAT THAT WE'RE AUTHORIZING MARK BARNHART, DAVE SKINNER AND
JAMES PAPPAS TO TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE EXAM, AND I HOPE
THAT THEY THANK THEIR ASSEMBLYWOMAN MARGE BYRNES FOR THIS
OPPORTUNITY. THIS IS MARGE'S LAST BILL. AND MARGE HAS BEEN A GREAT
ASSET TO OUR -- OUR CONFERENCE FOR SURE, BROUGHT A GREAT PERSPECTIVE,
GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE HER THROUGHOUT HER TIME.
I FIRST MET MARGE WHEN I WAS DOWN IN OUR PARKING
AREA, AND THIS HIGH-POWERED DODGE CHARGER CAME UP AND PARKED. I
THOUGHT, WHO THE HECK IS DRIVING THIS SPORTS CAR, AND OF COURSE IT WAS,
AS YOU WOULD EXPECT, MARGE BYRNES.
506
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(LAUGHTER)
THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING, TOO. IT MUST BE MARGE
BYRNES. WHAT A GREAT LADY, GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR. OFTEN QUIET HERE,
BUT A REAL ASSET TO OUR -- TO OUR CONFERENCE AND TO THE STATE OF NEW
YORK. SO HOPEFULLY THESE GUYS APPRECIATE HER SERVICE. I'M SURE THEY
DO, AS DO THE REST OF US. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER THIELE: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09964-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 643, RIVERA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW,
IN RELATION TO PROVIDING AN EXEMPTION AGAINST CERTAIN FIBER OPTIC CABLE
ASSESSMENTS FOR MUNICIPAL FIBER OPTIC BROADBAND COMPANIES IN ERIE
COUNTY; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON
EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
RIVERA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
507
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09991, RULES REPORT
NO. 644, OTIS, THIELE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VILLAGE LAW, IN RELATION TO
CONDUCTING REFERENDA IN VILLAGES WITH NOVEMBER ELECTIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
OTIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10027, RULES REPORT
NO. 645, SIMPSON. AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE HUDSON RIVER-BLACK RIVER
REGU -- REGULATORY -- REGULATING DISTRICT TO TRANSFER CERTAIN STATE
LANDS TO THE VILLAGE OF NORTHVILLE, TOWN OF NORTHAMPTON, COUNTY OF
FULTON.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SIMPSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
508
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10037-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 646, WALSH. AN ACTING AUTHORIZING THE VILLAGE OF BALLSTON
SPA TO TRANSFER OWNERSHIP OF THE WOODS HOLLOW NATURE PRESERVE TO THE
TOWN OF MILTON.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.
WALSH, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10050-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 647, BARCLAY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE COUNTY LAW, IN
RELATION TO REESTABLISHING THE OFFICE OF CORONER IN THE COUNTY OF
509
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
OSWEGO AND REMOVING THE POWERS AND DUTIES OF CORONERS FROM THE
DISTRICT ATTORNEY IN SUCH COUNTY AND ALLOWING OSWEGO COUNTY TO
APPOINT A CORONER; AND TO REPEAL CHAPTER 369 OF THE LAWS OF 1920,
ABOLISHING THE OFFICE OF CORONER IN THE COUNTY OF OSWEGO, AND
PROVIDING THAT THE POWERS AND DUTIES OF CORONERS IN SUCH COUNTY SHALL
HEREAFTER BE EXERCISED BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, RELATING THERETO.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: HOME RULE MESSAGE
IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10109, RULES REPORT
NO. 648, RA. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 19 OF THE LAWS OF 2009,
AMENDING THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO
ADJUDICATIONS AND OWNER LIABILITY FOR A VIOLATION OF TRAFFIC-CONTROL
SIGNAL INDICATIONS, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE PROVISIONS OF SUCH
CHAPTER.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
RA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
510
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10139-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 649, COMMITTEE ON RULES (BLUMENCRANZ). AN ACT IN
RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF OYSTER BAY TO DISCONTINUE AS
PARKLANDS AND CONVEY SUCH PARKLAND TO THE DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BLUMENCRANZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10161-A, RULES
511
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
REPORT NO. 650, COMMITTEE ON RULES (SLATER, LEVENBERG). AN ACT
AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF YORKTOWN, COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER, TO ALIENATE
AND DISCONTINUE THE USE OF CERTAIN PARKLANDS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SLATER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10172-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 651, COMMITTEE ON RULES (FLOOD). AN ACT IN RELATION TO
AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF BROOKHAVEN TO CONVEY EASEMENTS TO A PORTION
OF REAL PROPERTY IN THE COUNTY OF SUFFOLK CONSISTING OF PARKLAND TO
WEST FERRY OFFICE, LLC FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF SEWER FACILITIES.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
FLOOD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
512
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10234, RULES REPORT
NO. 652, COMMITTEE ON RULES (TAGUE). AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW,
IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING AN OCCUPANCY TAX IN THE VILLAGE OF
COXSACKIE; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON
EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
TAGUE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10355-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 653, COMMITTEE ON RULES (STERN). AN ACT TO AMEND THE
PRIVATE HOUSING FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE GRANTING
OF AN ADDITIONAL REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN REDEVELOPMENT
513
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
COMPANY PROJECTS WITHIN THE COUNTY OF NASSAU.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
STERN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. DURSO.
MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, I RISE TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR GETTING THIS BILL
ACROSS THE FINISH LINE. I CAN'T APPRECIATE TELLING HIM THAT ENOUGH. AND
ALSO, I'M SURE THE APPRECIATION IS FELT BY THE THOUSANDS OF SENIORS THAT
WILL BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO STAY IN THEIR HOMES BECAUSE OF IT. SO THANK
YOU, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DURSO IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO
WHOLEHEARTEDLY THANK THE SPONSOR. THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WAS
LITERALLY LIFE OR DEATH FOR SOME OF THESE SENIORS, AND A LOT OF THEM WILL
BE EXTRAORDINARILY HAPPY THAT SUCH A -- SUCH A GREAT AND HARD EFFORT WAS
FOUGHT TO GET THIS PASSED ACROSS THE FINISH LINE. SO THANK YOU AGAIN TO
THE SPONSOR.
514
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BLUMENCRANZ IN
THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10403, RULES REPORT
NO. 655, COMMITTEE ON RULES (BRABENEC). AN ACT IN RELATION TO
AUTHORIZING CHANG ZHU TO TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE
EXAMINATION AND BE PLACED ON THE ELIGIBLE CIVIL SERVICE LIST FOR
EMPLOYMENT AS A FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER FOR THE MOUNT HOPE POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
BRABENEC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10410, RULES REPORT
NO. 656, COMMITTEE ON RULES (PALMESANO, BYRNES, J.M. GIGLIO). AN
ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 545 OF THE LAWS OF 2011, AMENDING THE REAL
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
PROPERTY TAX LAW, RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A RESIDENTIAL-COMMERCIAL
EXEMPTION PROGRAM IN CERTAIN COUNTIES, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS
THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
PALMESANO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10447-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 657, COMMITTEE ON RULES (SAYEGH). AN ACT IN RELATION TO
AUTHORIZING THE STATE TO EXCHANGE PARCELS OF LAND LOCATED IN THE CITY OF
YONKERS, COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER, WITH 140 WARBURTON LLC.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
SAYEGH, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10489, RULES REPORT
NO. 658, COMMITTEE ON RULES (MCGOWAN). AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX
LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF RAMAPO TO IMPOSE A HOTEL
AND MOTEL TAX; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON
EXPIRATION THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
MCGOWAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10516-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 659, COMMITTEE ON RULES (MILLER). AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE
RICHARD LEE JOHNSON TO TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE
EXAMINATION FOR THE POSITION OF POLICE OFFICER AND BE PLACED ON THE
ELIGIBLE LIST FOR EMPLOYMENT AS A FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER FOR THE VILLAGE
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
OF CANASTOTA POLICE DEPARTMENT.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
MILLER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10523-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 660, COMMITTEE ON RULES (GUNTHER). AN ACT TO AMEND THE
HIGHWAY LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE
HIGHWAY SYSTEM IN THE TOWN OF WALLKILL AS THE "PRIVATE FIRST CLASS
RICHARD CLEVELAND DUNN MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MRS.
GUNTHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10562, RULES REPORT
NO. 661, COMMITTEE ON RULES (RAMOS). AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 719
OF THE LAWS OF 1982, RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE COMMISSIONER OF
GENERAL SERVICES TO CONVEY CERTAIN STATE LANDS IN THE COUNTY OF
SUFFOLK TO THE TOWN OF ISLIP, IN RELATION TO EXCEPTIONS FOR CERTAIN
PROPERTY (PART A); AND AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF ISLIP, COUNTY OF
SUFFOLK, TO ALIENATE CERTAIN PARKLAND (PART B).
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
RAMOS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A10572, RULES REPORT
NO. 662, COMMITTEE ON RULES (PRETLOW). AN ACT TO AMEND THE RACING,
PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING AND BREEDING LAW, IN RELATION TO THE
ACCELERATION OF THE DOWNSTATE CASINO LICENSES.
519
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT -- THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT
IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
(PAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER
VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
RULES AT THE REQUEST OF --
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. E2449,
RULES AT THE REQUEST OF MR. HEASTIE.
ESTABLISHING A PLAN SETTING FORTH AN ITEMIZED LIST OF
GRANTEES FOR A CERTAIN APPROPRIATION FOR THE 2024-25 STATE FISCAL YEAR
FOR GRANTS IN AID FOR SERVICES AND EXPENSES OF THE EDUCATION
DEPARTMENT, HUMAN SERVICES ORGANIZATIONS, CRIMINAL JUSTICE
ORGANIZATIONS AND MUNICIPAL ENTITIES, HEALTH AND MENTAL HEALTH
PROGRAMS AND PROVIDERS, PUBLIC PARKS AND RECREATIONAL PROGRAMS,
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
VETERANS' ORGANIZATIONS SERVICES, OLDER ADULTS PROGRAMS, VARIOUS
NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES, AND EDWARD BYRNE MEMORIAL GRANTS.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.
ON THE MAIN CALENDAR, PAGE 3, RULES REPORT NO. 60,
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A09550-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 60, PRETLOW, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN
RELATION TO INCREASING THE OCCUPANCY TAX RATE AUTHORIZED IN THE CITY OF
YONKERS; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 62 OF THE LAWS OF 2015 AMENDING THE
TAX LAW RELATING TO THE IMPOSITION OF AN OCCUPANCY TAX IN THE CITY OF
YONKERS, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.
PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD
THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
(ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY RISES AND EXITS THE ROSTRUM)
(APPLAUSE)
SPEAKER HEASTIE: I JUST WHISPERED TO JEFF, I
SAID, I CAN'T EVEN SAY THIS IS THE LAST TIME, SO... THAT'S GOVERNMENT FOR
YOU.
SO OF COURSE, FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES, THANK YOU ALL FOR
YOUR WORK YOU DID THIS YEAR AND YOUR TIRELESS COMMITMENT TO THE
PEOPLE OF OUR GREAT STATE. NONE OF THIS WORK WOULD BE POSSIBLE
WITHOUT OUR DEDICATED AND HARDWORKING TEAM. OF COURSE MAJORITY
LEADER CRYSTAL PEOPLES-STOKES AND MINORITY LEADER WILL BARCLAY,
SPEAKER PRO-TEM JEFF AUBRY, DEB MILLER, MARY-ANNE DANDLES, JOHN
KNIGHT AND THE LEGISLATIVE SERVICES TEAM; DAN SALVIN AND THE BILL
DRAFTING COMMISSION AND THE ASSEMBLY REVISION STAFF; PHIL FIELDS
AND THE WAYS AND MEANS STAFF; JEN BEST AND PROGRAM AND COUNSEL
STAFF; HOWARD VARGAS, REBECCA MOODY AND CHRISTINA ZOLA ON OUR
LEGAL STAFF; KATIE BENDER, LAUREN KEATING AND THE CIS TEAM; AMY
METCALF, ED HARRIS AND THE ASSEMBLY MAINTENANCE TEAM; MY OWN STAFF
HERE IN ALBANY AND NEW YORK CITY; MR. WAYNE JACKSON AND OUR
CHAMBER SERGEANTS.
(APPLAUSE)
JOSIEL ESTRELLA AND HER TEAM.
BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO SAY SO LONG TO MANY OF OUR GREAT
COLLEAGUES. HELENE WEINSTEIN.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(APPLAUSE)
OF COURSE THE GODFATHER, JEFF AUBRY.
(APPLAUSE)
FRED "THE POET" THIELE.
(APPLAUSE)
AILEEN GUNTHER.
(APPLAUSE)
DANNY O'DONNELL.
(APPLAUSE)
KEN "THE GREAT" ZEBROWSKI.
(APPLAUSE)
KIMBERLY JEAN-PIERRE.
(APPLAUSE)
INEZ DICKENS.
(APPLAUSE)
AND TO OUR TWO COLLEAGUES WHO ARE BEING -- WHO ARE
LOOKING TO BE DEMOTED, PAT FAHY AND TAYLOR DARLING.
(APPLAUSE)
I -- I KNOW MR. BARCLAY IS GONNA TAKE CARE OF THE --
THE MEMBERS ON -- ON HIS SIDE OF THE AISLE, BUT I DO WANT TO SAY A SO
LONG AS WELL TO MR. GOODELL, MR. GIGLIO, WHO I ALWAYS USED TO LOOK
FORWARD TO SEEING ONE OF HIS BILLS ON THE AGENDA BECAUSE DENNY, FOR
THE LIFE OF HIM, COULD NEVER SAY MR. GIGLIO'S NAME.
(LAUGHTER)
SO HE WOULD HAVE BEEN SO HAPPY WHEN MS. GIGLIO
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
WAS ELECTED BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE WOULD CALL YOU ALL THE TIME, SO IT'S
JUST THOSE FOND JOKING MEMORIES.
AND OF COURSE TO MARJORIE BYRNES, YOUR HONOR, THANK
YOU.
SO THANK YOU TO ALL FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU FOR
THE WORK THAT YOU DO. MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL. IT'S BEEN GREAT WORKING
WITH YOU, AND OF COURSE TO WILL, YOU'VE BEEN AN AMAZING, AMAZING
PARTNER. SO THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.
(APPLAUSE)
MR. BARCLAY.
MR. BARCLAY: WELL, WHAT TIME IS IT, MR. SPEAKER?
WE'RE AT 7:10 SO I'LL BE VERY BRIEF. YOU KNOW, I HAVE SAID THIS MANY
TIMES, MR. SPEAKER, ALTHOUGH WE'RE FROM DIFFERENT PARTIES AND WE HAVE
VERY DIFFERENT POLITICAL BELIEFS, AND EVEN THOUGH YOUR SOFTBALL TEAM
CAME FROM BEHIND AND BEAT OUR SOFTBALL TEAM --
(LAUGHTER)
-- I DO WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR FRIENDSHIP AND FOR
ALL THE COURTESIES YOU PROVIDE ME AND OUR CONFERENCE, AND THANK YOU
FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP OF THIS HOUSE.
CRYSTAL, YOU'RE NOT HERE BUT, MADAM MAJORITY LEADER,
I WANT TO THANK HER ALSO FOR WHAT SHE DOES ON THE FLOOR AND IT'S A
PLEASURE WORKING WITH HER. AND I ESPECIALLY WANT TO THANK HER FOR HER
VIDEO IN THE LCA SHOW. SHE -- SHE TOOK A STARTING -- A STARRING ROLE IN
THAT VIDEO.
TO ALL OF YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO ARE
524
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
RETIRING AT THE END OF THIS YEAR, I WANT TO WISH YOU THE BEST AND THANK
YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. AND I'D LIKE TO ESPECIALLY THANK JEFF AUBRY AND
HELENE WEINSTEIN. I DESCRIBE YOU A CONSUMMATE PROFESSIONALS AND I'M
HONORED TO HAVE SERVED WITH YOU. SO, CONGRATULATIONS. LET'S GIVE
THEM ANOTHER ROUND OF APPLAUSE, PLEASE.
(APPLAUSE)
AS YOU MENTIONED, MR. SPEAKER, ON OUR SIDE WE ALSO
HAVE A NUMBER WHO ARE RETIRING THIS YEAR. A LOT'S BEEN SAID ABOUT
ANDY TONIGHT, RIGHTFULLY SO, AND HIS ABILITIES ON THE FLOOR HAVE NEVER
CEASED TO AMAZE ME. HIS BREADTH OF KNOWLEDGE AND HIS ARTICULATIONS
OF OUR POSITION ON BILLS HAS REALLY BEEN SECOND-TO-NONE, ANDY, SO
THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT WORK YOU'VE DONE AND THANKS FOR BEING A GREAT
FLOOR LEADER.
(APPLAUSE)
MARGE BYRNES, I WANT TO THANK HER FOR HER SERVICE IN
THIS HOUSE. ANYONE THAT KNEW MARGE KNOWS THAT SHE HAD GREAT
PASSION FOR THE ISSUES THAT WERE IMPORTANT TO HER, AND SHE'S ALWAYS
BEEN WILLING TO DO WHAT SHE'S ASKED, ALWAYS BEEN WILLING TO DO WHAT
SHE'S ASKED. AND SHE STOOD UP FOR ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT FOR NEW
YORK, BUT PARTICULARLY, I THINK, WITH MARGE WERE IMPORTANT FOR UPSTATE
NEW YORK. SO GIVE HER A ROUND OF APPLAUSE.
(APPLAUSE)
AND LAST, BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, I JUST WANT TO GIVE A
FOND FAREWELL TO JOE GIGLIO. I THANK HIM FOR HIS SERVICE, BUT I
PARTICULARLY WANT TO THANK JOE FOR HIS GREAT FRIENDSHIP, HIS INVALUABLE
525
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
ADVICE THAT HE'S ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO GIVE ME, AND REALLY HIS STEADY
HAND ON THE CONFERENCE. SO JOE, GODSPEED TO YOU. THANKS FOR
EVERYTHING.
(APPLAUSE)
AND THIS ONE'S GONNA BE A LITTLE TOUGH FOR ME, TOO.
ALTHOUGH SHE'S NOT A MEMBER, SHE'S BEEN A LEADER IN OUR CONFERENCE.
AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, MY CHIEF-OF-STAFF, JUDY SKYPE, IS RETIRING. IT'S
HARD FOR ME TO ENVISION WHAT MY POLITICAL LIFE'S GONNA BE POST-JUDY
SKYPE. IT'S GONNA BE A CHALLENGE, I KNOW. SHE'S HAD 31 YEARS HERE, 15
YEARS AS CHIEF-OF-STAFF AND IT'S QUITE A LEGACY, JUDY. BUT I WANT TO
THANK YOU FOR YOUR PROFESSIONALISM, YOUR GOOD JUDGMENT, AND REALLY ALL
THE HARD WORK YOU'VE DONE FOR ME AND OUR CONFERENCE. THANKS, JUDY.
(APPLAUSE)
SO LIKE YOU, MR. SPEAKER, WE'RE BLESSED TO HAVE GREAT
STAFF AND WE CAN'T ACCOMPLISH WHAT WE DO WITHOUT THEM. SO I WANT TO
THANK A NUMBER OF THE LEADERS OF OUR STAFF. I WANT TO THANK THE
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF OUR CONFERENCE, TOM KRAUS; OUR SENIOR
ADVISOR, STEPHANIE HERRICK; POLICY DIRECTOR JASON KEHOE; DIRECTOR OF
REGIONAL SERVICES DAN CAIRNS AND DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS MIKE
FRASER. SO PLEASE GIVE THEM A ROUND OF APPLAUSE.
(APPLAUSE)
AND THEY -- WE WORK WITH THE HELP OF ALSO IN OUR
OFFICE I SHOULD HAVE SAID DAWN RIZZO, KELLY KLINE, AND CHRISTINA
BENNETT. I ALSO WANT TO THANK EVERYONE FROM OUR COUNSEL'S OFFICE. I
WANT TO THANK ED WICK AND ADAM FUSCO, AND OF COURSE OUR FLOOR
526
NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
COUNSEL MICHELLE. SO PLEASE GIVE EVERYONE --
(APPLAUSE)
I WANT TO THANK OUR TREMENDOUS WAYS AND MEANS
STAFF THAT'S LED BY OUR NEWLY-APPOINTED -- MY NEWLY-APPOINTED
CHIEF-OF-STAFF LAUREN O'HARE. GIVE HER A ROUND OF APPLAUSE, PLEASE.
(APPLAUSE)
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WE ALSO HAVE OUR RESEARCH
DEPARTMENT, AND THAT'S LED BY DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH MIKE DALY. PLEASE
GIVE HIM A ROUND OF APPLAUSE.
(APPLAUSE)
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, I JUST WANT TO THANK MY
COLLEAGUES IN THE ASSEMBLY REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE. IT'S AN HONOR FOR
YOU -- FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO LEAD YOU GUYS, AND I'M REALLY PROUD TO WORK
WITH YOU EVERY DAY. I THINK A VERY HARDWORKING AND DILIGENT
CONFERENCE, SO THANK YOU FOR THE TRUST THAT YOU'VE PLACED IN ME.
(APPLAUSE)
LASTLY, MR. SPEAKER, GOOD MORNING AND THANK YOU.
SPEAKER HEASTIE: BEFORE I CALL ON MS. SOLAGES,
I NEGLECTED -- YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LIST ALL OF THE NAMES SOMETIMES YOU
FORGET. I DID FORGET MIGUELINA CAMILO, WHO'S COUNSEL, TOO.
(APPLAUSE)
MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: MR. SPEAKER, DO WE HAVE ANY
FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?
SPEAKER HEASTIE: WE HAVE NEITHER.
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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 7, 2024
(LAUGHTER)
MS. SOLAGES.
MS. SOLAGES: NOW I MOVE THAT ASSEMBLY STAND
ADJOURNED UNTIL SATURDAY, JUNE 8TH, TOMORROW BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY,
AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT THE CALL OF THE SPEAKER.
SPEAKER HEASTIE: ON A MOTION BY MS. SOLAGES,
THE HOUSE STANDS ADJOURNED.
(APPLAUSE)
(WHEREUPON, AT 7:17 A.M., THE HOUSE STOOD ADJOURNED
UNTIL SATURDAY, JUNE 8TH, THAT BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY, AND TO RECONVENE
AT THE CALL OF THE SPEAKER.)
528