FRIDAY, JUNE 9, 2023 11:35 A.M.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE HOUSE WILL COME

TO ORDER.

IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

SILENCE.

(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF

ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

JOURNAL OF THURSDAY, JUNE 8TH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO

DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF THURSDAY, JUNE THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

8TH AND THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO

ORDERED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR.

COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS, I WANT TO START TODAY

WITH A QUOTE FROM NAS. MANY OF YOU PROBABLY KNOW HIM, HE WAS BORN

IN BROOKLYN AND HE WAS RAISED IN QUEENS, BUT HE'S A LEGENDARY

AMERICAN RAPPER. HIS WORDS FOR US TODAY, EVERYTHING WILL EVENTUALLY

COME TO AN END --

(LAUGHTER)

-- SO TRY TO SAVOR THE MOMENT 'CAUSE TIME FLIES, DON'T

IT? THE BEAUTY OF LIFE, YOU'RE GOING [SIC] TO MAKE IT LAST FOR THE BETTER

'CAUSE NOTHING LASTS FOREVER. AGAIN, MR. SPEAKER, THESE WORDS ARE

FROM NAS AND I ASSURE YOU THAT THIS SESSION WILL NOT LAST FOREVER,

EITHER. BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO TODAY.

SO MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR DESK A MAIN CALENDAR AND

A DEBATE LIST. SO AFTER WE HAVE DONE ANY HOUSEKEEPING AND/OR

INTRODUCTIONS, WE'LL BE CALLING FOR THE FOLLOWING COMMITTEES: WAYS

AND MEANS AND RULES. THESE COMMITTEES ARE GOING TO PRODUCE AN

A-CALENDAR WHICH WE WILL TAKE UP TODAY. FOLLOWING THAT, WE WILL

BEGIN OUR WORK BY TAKING UP RULES REPORT NO. 673 BY MS. CRUZ. I'M

GOING TO ASK FOR MEMBERS' PATIENCE TODAY BECAUSE IT IS GONNA BE A LONG

DAY, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO LAST FOREVER. THERE MAY BE A NEED TO

ANNOUNCE ADDITIONAL FLOOR ACTIVITY AS WE PROCEED, MR. SPEAKER, BUT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

RIGHT NOW THAT'S A GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE GOING, AND IF YOU

HAVE HOUSEKEEPING OR INTRODUCTIONS NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME, SIR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU SO MUCH,

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

FOR THE PURPOSES OF A INTRODUCTION, MS. DARLING.

MS. DARLING: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

ALLOWING ME TO INTRODUCE MY DAUGHTER.

(APPLAUSE)

THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH. MY SWEET, LITTLE

EIGHT-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER, MONROE-DAY, AFFECTIONATELY KNOWN AS MD

AGAINST HER OWN WILL. SHE IS SO EXCITED TO BE HERE, SHE IS MY BIGGEST,

BIGGEST FAN, MY MOST FAVORITE CONSTITUENT; NOT THAT WE CHOOSE

FAVORITES. AND SHE IS HERE FROM THIRD GRADE BECAUSE HER TEACHER

THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GREAT EXPERIENCE TO EXPERIENCE GOVERNMENT

RATHER THAN JUST READ AND LEARN ABOUT IT. SO SHE'S HERE SEEING US

THROUGH TO THE BITTER END AND SHE'S BEEN A HUGE HELP WITH HER LITTLE

BROTHER, AS WELL. SO I'M VERY, VERY HAPPY TO HAVE HER HERE, ESPECIALLY

BECAUSE SHE IS THE PERSON THAT MISSES ME THE MOST WHEN I'M UP HERE

SIX MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR. WE STARTED THIS JOURNEY WHEN SHE WAS FOUR

YEARS OLD, SO SHE'LL BE TURNING NINE SOON AND WE JUST LOVE HER SO MUCH.

MR. SPEAKER, WILL YOU PLEASE GIVE HER THE CORDIALITIES

OF THE FLOOR? THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. ON BEHALF

OF YOUR MOTHER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

HERE TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY. BECAUSE YOU'RE FAMILY, YOU ARE

ALWAYS GIVEN THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR AND, QUITE FRANKLY, FROM MY

PERSPECTIVE, AFTER BEING HERE A VERY LONG TIME, THE FACT THAT WE SEE

CHILDREN HERE SO OFTEN REALLY EXPANDS THE EXPERIENCE AND MAKES US

UNDERSTAND WHY WE DO THE WORK THAT WE DO. SO, CONGRATULATIONS ON

BEING HERE TODAY, CONGRATULATIONS ON FINISHING YOUR SCHOOL YEAR, AND

WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU MANY, MANY MORE TIMES IN THE FUTURE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, ENJOY THE DAY. GOD BLESS.

(APPLAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, WOULD YOU

PLEASE CALL THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S

CONFERENCE ROOM?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WAYS AND MEANS,

SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY, PLEASE.

PAGE 19, RULES REPORT NO. 673, THERE IS AN -- THE

CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01029-C, RULES

REPORT NO. 673, CRUZ, PRETLOW, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, MEEKS, BURGOS,

MAMDANI, WALKER, JACKSON, SEAWRIGHT, SIMON, DICKENS, HYNDMAN,

EPSTEIN, ANDERSON, KELLES, BURDICK, GALLAGHER, CARROLL, SEPTIMO,

L. ROSENTHAL, ZINERMAN, REYES, HEVESI, DARLING, AUBRY, MITAYNES,

WEPRIN, LAVINE, JOYNER, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, JEAN-PIERRE, KIM,

HUNTER, CLARK, RIVERA, BRONSON, GIBBS, DE LOS SANTOS, DAVILA, TAYLOR,

COOK, VANEL, FAHY, TAPIA, CUNNINGHAM, GLICK, LUCAS, CHANDLER-

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WATERMAN, DINOWITZ, OTIS, ARDILA, BORES, O'DONNELL, RAGA, SHRESTHA,

SHIMSKY, SIMONE, ALVAREZ, LEVENBERG, FORREST, ZACCARO, MCDONALD,

LEE, SOLAGES, STIRPE, LUPARDO, DILAN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL

PROCEDURE LAW, THE EXECUTIVE LAW, THE CORRECTION LAW, THE JUDICIARY

LAW AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTOMATIC SEALING OF

CERTAIN CONVICTIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THERE IS AN

AMENDMENT AT THE DESK. MR. REILLY TO BRIEFLY EXPLAIN THE AMENDMENT

WHILE WE EXAMINE IT.

MR. REILLY.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I OFFER THE

FOLLOWING AMENDMENT, WAIVE ITS READING, MOVE FOR ITS IMMEDIATE

ADOPTION AND ASK FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN IT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PROCEED.

MR. REILLY: SO THIS AMENDMENT I OFFER WILL APPLY

THE SAME PRINCIPLES AS THE BILL-IN-CHIEF TO THE RECORDS OF POLICE

OFFICERS, FIREFIGHTERS AND MEMBERS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS.

IT WILL SEAL THEIR DISCIPLINARY RECORDS, THEIR CIVIL LAWSUITS AND ANY OTHER

CIVILIAN COMPLAINTS THAT THEY MAY HAVE OCCURRED. IF THEY DO NOT -- OR

INCURRED, I SHOULD SAY. IF THEY DO NOT HAVE A REPEAT OFFENSE, WHETHER

IT'S A CCRB, WHETHER IT'S A CIVILIAN LAWSUIT OR WHETHER IT'S A DEPARTMENT

CHARGE, WITHIN THREE YEARS, ON THE THIRD ANNIVERSARY OF THE DISPOSITION,

THAT RECORD WILL BE SEALED AND, THEREFORE, IT WOULD PROVIDE THEM THE

OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE IN THEIR EMPLOYMENT. AND THE REASON WHY I

OFFER THAT IS BECAUSE -- I'LL GIVE YOU FOR INSTANCE. IN THE YEAR 2020,

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WE'LL TAKE THE NYPD RECORDS OF DISCIPLINARY INCIDENTS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO IN A MINUTE, MR.

REILLY. I KNOW YOU WANT TO GO ON AND EXPLAIN THE BILL --

MR. REILLY: OOPS. SORRY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: -- HOWEVER, WE HAVE

EXAMINED THE AMENDMENT AND FOUND IT NOT GERMANE TO THE BILL BEFORE

THE HOUSE. YOU MAY, OF COURSE, APPEAL THE RULING OF THE CHAIR AND

SPEAK TO THE ISSUE OF GERMANENESS.

MR. REILLY.

MR. REILLY: MR. SPEAKER, I RESPECTFULLY APPEAL THE

DECISION OF THE CHAIR AND REQUEST AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN ITS

GERMANENESS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PROCEED, SIR.

MR. REILLY: SO AS I WAS SAYING, IN THE BILL-IN-CHIEF

IT PROVIDES THE OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN

DISADVANTAGED DUE TO A CONVICTION, AND IT EXPANDS THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE

GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT AND FOR HOUSING. THE REASON WHY MY AMENDMENT

WOULD IMPROVE THE EMPLOYMENT OF MEMBERS IN THE NYPD, MEMBERS

OF LAW ENFORCEMENT THROUGHOUT THE STATE, MEMBERS IN THE CORRECTIONS

OCCU -- OCCUPATION AND THE FIREFIGHTER SERVICE IS BECAUSE MANY A TIMES

THEY'LL RECEIVE CIVILIAN COMPLAINTS AND THEY'RE DEEMED UNSUBSTANTIATED,

OR MAYBE THEY'VE BEEN EXONERATED, OR MAYBE THEY HAVE HAD ONE THAT

HAS BEEN SUBSTANTIATED. MAYBE THEY MADE A MISTAKE OF THE MIND, NOT

OF THE HEART. MAYBE THEY DID MAKE A MISTAKE AND DESERVE THE

COMPLAINT, BUT AFTER THREE YEARS, THEY RECEIVED NO MORE. AND SEALING

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THAT WILL HELP THEM MAYBE ADVANCE BECAUSE, UNFORTUNATELY, THOSE

RECORDS REMAIN THROUGHOUT THEIR CAREERS AND EVEN ACCESSIBLE AFTER THEY

RETIRE. I HAD FOUR CIVILIAN COMPLAINTS ON THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, I'M

RETIRED 17 YEARS, YOU CAN STILL LOOK MINE UP. THEY APPEAR. THAT'S JUST

AN EXAMPLE. I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH, TWO WERE EXONERATED BECAUSE I

DID NOTHING WRONG, BUT THEY STILL APPEAR AND IT ALWAYS WILL RAISE A

QUESTION.

NOW, THE REASON WHY THIS IS SPECIFICALLY GERMANE TO

THIS BILL-IN-CHIEF IS BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THE REAL INTENTION, AND I

UNDERSTAND THE INTENT, IS DISPROPORTIONATELY, PEOPLE OF COLOR HAVE BEEN

DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED BY HAVING A CONVICTION AND THEY CAN'T GET

EMPLOYMENT OR IT AFFECTS THEIR HOUSING. WELL, LET'S TAKE, FOR INSTANCE,

IN THE YEAR 2020, NYPD DISCIPLINARY RECORDS. FIFTY-TWO PERCENT OF THE

NYPD OFFICERS DISCIPLINED IDENTIFIED AS NON-WHITE; 47 PERCENT WERE

WHITE, 18 PERCENT IDENTIFIED AS FEMALE; 66 PERCENT WERE OF THE RANK OF

POLICE OFFICER. SO THE REASON WHY I GIVE YOU THOSE NUMBERS -- AND 14

PERCENT WERE IN THE RANK OF DETECTIVE. NOW, DETECTIVE IS A

DISCRETIONARY PROMOTION. ANYTHING POLICE -- ABOVE POLICE OFFICER,

SERGEANT, LIEUTENANT, CAPTAIN, ARE BY EXAM, BUT YOU CAN ALSO GET

PASSED OVER IF YOU HAVE PENDING CASES OR PRIOR CASES THAT HAPPENED

OVER THREE YEARS AGO.

THE REASON WHY IT'S GERMANE IS BECAUSE IF THOSE

RECORDS EXIST PAST THREE YEARS AND YOU'VE NEVER HAD, AS AN OFFICER,

ANOTHER IMPACT, ANOTHER INCIDENT, THAT COULD PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING

PROMOTED TO DETECTIVE, IT CAN ALSO HINDER YOUR PROMOTION TO SERGEANT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

OR LIEUTENANT OR CAPTAIN. OR, IN THE CORRECTIONS SERVICES, CORRECTION

CAPTAIN, WARDEN, ABOVE. IN THE FIRE SERVICE, LIEUTENANT, CAPTAIN,

ABOVE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS, AND IF WE DON'T PROVIDE

THOSE MEMBERS IN UNIFORM, THOSE NUMBERS, 52 PERCENT JUST IN THE

NYPD WHO DO NOT IDENTIFY -- OR IDENTIFY, I SHOULD SAY, AS NON-WHITE,

THEY'RE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED IN THE OPPORTUNITIES IN THEIR

EMPLOYMENT.

SO IF WE ARE GOING TO ADDRESS THE IMPACT OF HAVING A

CONVICTION ON THOSE WHO DO NOT IDENTIFY AS WHITE, PEOPLE OF COLOR,

WHO HAVE BEEN DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED BY -- IT ALSO APPLIES IN

THOSE UNIFORM SERVICES. BECAUSE WHY WOULD WE HINDER THE ABILITY FOR

THEM TO ACHIEVE AN ADVANCE IN THEIR CAREERS FOR SOMETHING THAT

HAPPENED POTENTIALLY 17 YEARS AGO? THOSE THAT STAY ON IN THE FORCE OR

IN THE DEPARTMENT OR IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OR IN CORRECTIONS, MORE

THAN 20 YEARS. MAYBE THEY GOT IN TROUBLE IN THEIR SECOND YEAR. IT'S

NOW YEAR 22 AND THEY MAY BE IMPACTED BY GETTING A DISCRETIONARY

PROMOTION, ALL BECAUSE THEY MAY HAVE HAD UNSUBSTANTIATED CCRBS OR

LAWSUITS FILED THAT WERE FILED AGAINST THEM.

NOW, TO PUT THAT INTO PERSPECTIVE, CIVIL LAWSUITS IN

NEW YORK CITY, THE -- THE COMMON PRACTICE IS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER

THE OFFICER, CORRECTION OFFICER OR FIREFIGHTER COMMITTED AN INCIDENT, THE

CITY LAW DEPARTMENT AND THE CORPORATION COUNCIL, THEIR POLICY IS TO

SETTLE THEIR CASES. I WAS SUED TWICE. NOT ONCE DID A CITY LAWYER TALK TO

ME ABOUT THE CASE. THEY SETTLED BECAUSE THEY HAVE A SLUSH FUND.

THOSE ARE THE CHALLENGES FACED BY MEMBERS IN THOSE SERVICES. AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SHOULD THAT IMPACT THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO IMPROVE AND ADVANCE IN

THEIR CAREERS? IF WE DO NOT ADOPT THIS AMENDMENT OR MOVE FORWARD TO

HELP THEM, WHAT MESSAGE ARE WE SENDING AS A STATE? WE DON'T CARE

ABOUT YOUR EMPLOYMENT, WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU ADVANCING AND BEING

THE BEST YOU CAN BE.

OUR MOTTO IS EVER UPWARD. THIS IS A CHANCE FOR US TO

DO THAT. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. I JUST WANT TO REMIND MY COLLEAGUES THAT THE QUESTION BEFORE

US NOW IS PROCEDURAL, THAT'S IT. SO I'M GONNA URGE YOU TO DO LIKE I'M

GOING TO DO AND WE ALL SHOULD BE DOING AS A CONFERENCE, I'M URGING

YOU TO VOTE YES TO SUPPORT -- TO SUSTAIN THIS, EXACTLY WHAT THE CHAIR HAS

SAID, THAT IT WAS NOT GERMANE TO THIS BILL. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. REILLY APPEALS THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR. THE

QUESTION BEFORE THE HOUSE IS SHALL THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR STAND AS

THE JUDGMENT OF THE HOUSE? THOSE VOTING YES TO SUSTAIN THE RULING OF

THE CHAIR; THOSE VOTING NO VOTE TO OVERRIDE THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR.

A PARTY VOTE HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. WITH ALL DUE

RESPECT, I HATE TO START OFF THE NEW SESSION THIS WAY, BUT WE DISAGREE,

RESPECTFULLY, WITH YOUR DECISION. AND SO THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE

WILL GENERALLY BE NO.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. WE OFTEN HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO AGREE TO DISAGREE. WE'RE

GOING TO DISAGREE ON THIS ONE AS WELL AND AGREE WITH YOU, SIR, THAT WE

SHOULD BE VOTING YES TO SUSTAIN YOUR RULING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE RULING OF THE CHAIR IS SUSTAINED.

ON THE BILL.

AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MS. CRUZ.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS IS AN ACT

TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, THE EXECUTIVE LAW, THE

CORRECTION LAW, THE JUDICIARY LAW AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAW IN

RELATION TO THE AUTOMATIC SEALING OF CERTAIN CONVICTIONS. THIS

LEGISLATION WILL ADDRESS SOME OF THE COLLATERAL CONSEQUENCES THAT

FOLLOW A CRIMINAL CONVICTION PAST THE TIME A PERSON HAS COMPLETED

THEIR SENTENCE BY REQUIRING THE AUTOMATIC SEALING OF RECORDS THAT

PERTAIN TO SPECIFIED OFFENSES ONCE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS ARE MET.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MORINELLO.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: DOES THE SPONSOR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: ABSOLUTELY, JUDGE.

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I

APPRECIATE THAT. CURRENTLY, MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE DO HAVE

PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES TO REMOVE IMPEDIMENTS TO THOSE WHO HAVE

BEEN PREVIOUSLY INCARCERATED OR ON PROBATION THAT HAVE A CONVICTION.

THERE CURRENTLY -- WE DO HAVE TWO AREAS OF EXPUNGEMENT; ONE IS THE

MARIJUANA WHICH WE'VE ALREADY PASSED, AND THEN THE SECOND IS FOR THE

PROSTITUTION ISSUES THAT WE HAD DISCUSSED PRIOR -- PRIOR. WE ALSO HAVE

CERTIFICATES OF GOOD CONDUCT. CAN YOU TELL ME, PLEASE, WHAT WOULD

BECOME THE NET EFFECT OF A CERTIFICATE OF GOOD CONDUCT SHOULD THIS GO

INTO EFFECT?

MS. CRUZ: GIVE ME ONE SECOND.

MR. MORINELLO: SURE.

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: IT DOESN'T IMPACT THEM.

MR. MORINELLO: SO THERE WOULD -- THERE WOULD

STILL BE THE NEED TO APPLY FOR A CERTIFICATE OF GOOD CONDUCT UNDER THE

CLEAN SLATE?

MS. CRUZ: PERHAPS I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR QUESTION,

I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT -- ARE YOU ASKING DOES IT, I GUESS...

MR. MORINELLO: DOES IT -- LET ME BE A LITTLE

CLEARER, AND I APOLOGIZE, OKAY? DOES IT NOW PUT SOMEONE IN THE -- PUT

SOMEONE IN A POSITION WHERE THERE WOULD BE NO NECESSITY TO UTILIZE THIS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TOOL THAT'S ALREADY IN THE LAW?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: IN -- IT DEPENDS. YOU KNOW, THERE ARE

SOME OF THOSE CRIMES THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED WHERE THAT INFORMATION

MAY STILL BE AVAILABLE FOR CERTAIN CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS, AND

THEY MAY STILL NEED THOSE APPLICATIONS.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. NOW, LET'S GO TO -- TO A

CERTIFICATE OF RELIEF FROM DISABILITY. WILL THAT STILL BE A NECESSARY

PROCEDURE? IT IS ALREADY IN THE LAW, IT'S ALREADY BEEN GRANTED IN MANY

CASES. WILL THIS ALLEVIATE THE NECESSITY FOR AN APPLICATION FOR THAT

RELIEF?

MS. CRUZ: NO, FOR THE SAME REASONS.

MR. MORINELLO: FOR THE SAME REASON. NOW, WE

ALSO HAVE ABILITY TO SEAL RECORDS, CURRENTLY, OKAY? WILL THIS OVERTAKE

THE ABILITY OR THE NEED TO APPLY FOR A SEALING ORDER?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: IT'S A DIFFERENT PROCESS. IT'S MORE LIMITED

AND IT'S A MORE STRINGENT PROCESS.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. SO WHAT, THEN, WILL THE

SO-CALLED RELIEF THAT YOU ARE REQUESTING HAVE IN THE FUTURE FOR THOSE THAT

WOULD HAVE TO UTILIZE IT?

MS. CRUZ: SO I -- I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I

UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION CLEARLY. I BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME IS IF

SOMEONE QUALIFIES, WHAT EXACTLY DOES THIS DO FOR THEM, RIGHT?

MR. MORINELLO: CORRECT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: SO IF SOMEONE QUALIFIES, IT WOULD SEAL

AND AFTER THREE OR EIGHT YEARS AFTER MEETING THEIR REQUIREMENTS, WHETHER

IT'S A MISDEMEANOR OR A QUALIFYING FELONY, IT WOULD SEAL THEIR RECORD FOR

MOST PURPOSES, EXCEPT A FEW, INCLUDING SOME LICENSING, LAW

ENFORCEMENT, COURTS, SOME CIVIL ACTIONS, ET CETERA.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. SO CURRENTLY IF SOMEONE

WANTS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THOSE PROCEDURES ALREADY IN THE LAW WHICH

WOULD HELP REMOVE IMPEDIMENTS FOR THEM MOVING FORWARD, WHETHER --

WHETHER IT'S HOUSING AND WHETHER IT'S EMPLOYMENT, THEY WOULD STILL

HAVE TO POSSIBLY GO THROUGH THE PROCESSES THAT ARE STILL THERE?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE CURRENT

PROCEDURES ARE -- ARE A LITTLE DIFFICULT FOR THE MAJORITY OF FOLKS, MANY

TIMES THEY REQUIRE AN ATTORNEY, THERE'S OFTEN A LONG WAIT LIST IF YOU WANT

TO GET A FREE ATTORNEY. AND SO THIS WOULD MAKE IT MORE ACCESSIBLE, AS

WELL, TO -- TO THE FOLKS THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT.

MR. MORINELLO: SO IF I UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY,

THEN, WHAT WE ARE DOING IS REMOVING THE OBLIGATION OF AN INDIVIDUAL TO

MOVE FORWARD IN A POSITIVE MANNER, ACTING ON THEIR OWN BEHALF, AND

THE STATE WOULD THEN -- THE STATE WOULD THEN TAKE OVER THAT

RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM.

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: YEAH, I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

THE APPLICATION-BASED SEALINGS WOULD NOT BE TURNED OVER TO MOST

EMPLOYERS. WE ACTUALLY HAVE SOME EXCEPTIONS, SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT

DIFFERENT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: ASSUMING, AGAIN, THAT I UNDERSTOOD

WHERE YOU WERE GOING.

MR. MORINELLO: YOU -- YOU DID UNDERSTAND IT.

BUT IN -- IN SIMPLEST TERMS, OKAY, WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THIS IS TAKING

AN OBLIGATION OF AN INDIVIDUAL TO WORK TOWARDS THEIR OWN FUTURE AND

TAKE A POSITIVE STEP, AND THE STATE IS JUST BLANKETLY DOING IT FOR THEM.

MS. CRUZ: I WOULD FRAME IT DIFFERENTLY. I THINK

HAVING -- ONCE SOMEONE HAS PAID THEIR DUES TO SOCIETY, HAS ACTUALLY

GONE THROUGH THREE OR EIGHT YEARS OF NOT HAVING RECOMMITTED ANY

CRIMES, I THINK THEY ARE DOING THEIR DUTY AS MEMBERS OF SOCIETY AND

WE, AS GOVERNMENT, SHOULD BE REMOVING ANY ROADBLOCKS TO THEM

ACCESSING THE POSSIBLE SEALING.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. BUT UNDER THE

CIRCUMSTANCES, THEY STILL HAVE, AT THIS POINT, THE ABILITY TO ACT ON THEIR

OWN BEHALF TO REMOVE THOSE ROADBLOCKS.

MS. CRUZ: I WOULD ARGUE THE MAJORITY DO NOT. THE

INSTANCES THAT YOU MENTIONED ARE VERY LIMITED, THEY'RE NOT EASILY

ACCESSIBLE AND THEY'RE NOT A -- THEY'RE NOT A SURE SHOT, IF YOU WILL.

MR. MORINELLO: WAS THERE EVER ANY

CONVERSATION OR DISCUSSION REGARDING MAKING THAT SYSTEM A LITTLE BIT

EASIER, ALLOWING THEY WHEN REMOVE FROM PROBATION OR FROM

INCARCERATION THE APPLICATION, THE INSTRUCTIONS AND THE ASSISTANCE SO

THAT THEY HAVE SOME PERSONAL STAKE IN MOVING FORWARD IN THEIR LIVES?

MS. CRUZ: I -- ARGUABLY, I WOULD SAY CLEAN SLATE IS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE PRODUCT OF MANY YEARS OF THAT CONVERSATION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE

ARE PROVIDING PEOPLE WITH THAT.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. BUT YOU'RE JUST

WHOLESALE GIVING THAT BLANKET RATHER THAN TEACHING THEM HOW TO GO

FORWARD AND HELP THEMSELVES, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: AGAIN, I THINK SPENDING THREE YEARS NOT

RECOMMITTING ANY CRIMES IT'S A MISDEMEANOR, AND EIGHT YEARS IF IT'S A

FELONY IS THESE INDIVIDUALS ACTUALLY DOING THINGS FOR THEMSELVES AND

PROVING THAT THEY DESERVE IT.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, THEY'VE PAID THEIR DEBT TO

SOCIETY, BUT ONCE THEY GET OUT THEY STILL HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO ASSIST

THEMSELVES GOING FORWARD; WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

MS. CRUZ: AGAIN, THREE AND EIGHT YEARS OF NOT

RECOMMITTING CRIMES ACTUALLY DEMONSTRATES EXACTLY YOUR POINT.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, THOSE THREE OR SEVEN YEARS

IS PAYING THEIR DEBT TO --

MS. CRUZ: EIGHT YEARS, ACTUALLY.

MR. MORINELLO: EIGHT YEARS, IS PAYING THEIR DEBT

TO SOCIETY AND --

MS. CRUZ: NO, I -- I -- I -- ACTUALLY PAYING THEIR

DEBT TO SOCIETY IS THE TIME THAT THEY SPENT IN PRISON AND ON PROBATION,

ET CETERA. THESE ARE THREE YEARS ON TOP OF THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY.

MR. MORINELLO: CORRECT. BUT WHERE I'M GETTING

AT IS, WHAT I SEE IS A STATE AND A NATION MOVING TOWARDS NO ONE HAS TO

BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS, AND THERE'S

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

POSITIVE CONSEQUENCES AND NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES. AND TO BE A LITTLE

MORE CLEAR, WHEN THEY -- THEY ARE CONVICTED, NOT WHEN THEY COMMIT OR

THERE'S ALLEGATION, BUT THEY'VE ACTUALLY BEEN CONVICTED, WHETHER IT'S BY

TRIAL OR BY PLEA, OKAY, THAT IS THE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCE. THE POSITIVE

CONSEQUENCE OF THEM TAKING RESPONSIBILITY IS BEING ABLE TO MOVE

FORWARD IN THEIR LIFE, BUT HAVE YOU EVER DISCUSSED OR HAS THERE BEEN ANY

THOUGHTS ABOUT TO ASSIST THEM IN COMING TO THAT REALIZATION TO ALLOW

THEM THE ABILITY TO DO IT THEMSELVES?

MS. CRUZ: I ACTUALLY THINK YOU'RE HELPING ME PROVE

MY POINT. THEY HAVE PAID THEIR DUES TO SOCIETY AND THEY HAVE -- THEY

HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF A CRIME, NOT WHEN THEY'VE BEEN ARRESTED.

MR. MORINELLO: RIGHT.

MS. CRUZ: AND SO I THINK YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY ON

POINT WITH EVERYTHING WE'RE TRYING TO DO. WE PERHAPS ARE LOOKING AT IT

FROM TWO DIFFERENT ANGLES, BUT IT'S SOMEONE WHO COMMITTED CRIME,

PAID THEIR TIME, PAID THEIR FINES, DID EVERYTHING THAT WAS ORDERED BY A

COURT FOR THEM TO DO, THEN CAME OUT AND ATTEMPTED TO REINTEGRATE INTO

SOCIETY. AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF THIS -- THESE

FOLKS CAN'T FIND WORK, CAN'T FIND HOUSING. AND STUDY AFTER STUDY

DEMONSTRATES THAT WHEN SOMEONE CAN'T FIND WORK AND SOMEONE CAN'T

FIND HOUSING, IT'S -- IT'S WHEN THE STATE SHOULD STEP IN TO MAKE SURE THAT

WE'RE GIVING THEM THAT OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE OTHERWISE, THAT'S WHEN WE

SEE THE RATES OF RECIDIVISM ACTUALLY INCREASE. BUT I THINK YOU'RE

ACTUALLY HELPING ME PROVE MY POINT WITH THAT ARGUMENT.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, I REALLY AM NOT FOR THIS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

PARTICULAR REASON.

MS. CRUZ: YEAH, I WOULD ARGUE OTHERWISE.

MR. MORINELLO: SEE, I STILL FEEL THAT INDIVIDUALS

THAT HAVE BECOME RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS,

THERE'S TWO PARTS TO THAT. THE FIRST PART IS YOU PAY YOUR DEBT TO SOCIETY.

THE SECOND PART IS WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THE REST OF YOUR LIFE,

OKAY? AND I'M -- WHAT I'M SAYING IS, WAS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON TO

GIVE THEM A LITTLE BIT MORE FEELING OF THEY ARE IN CONTROL OF THEMSELVES,

TO HAVE THEM MAKE THIS PARTICULAR MOVE, BUT MAKING IT EASIER FOR THEM.

BECAUSE I THINK WE ALL REALIZE WE KNOW -- I'M SORRY, I APOLOGIZE.

MS. CRUZ: YEAH, GO AHEAD. NO, NO; GO AHEAD,

FINISH.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. WE ALL KNOW THAT WE

HAVE A FRIEND WHO TOOK THAT STEP, OKAY, AND HAS TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR

THEIR OWN LIFE AND THEY'VE MOVED UP. BUT THAT PERSON APPRECIATES THE

FACT THAT THEY HAD A PROCEDURE TO FOLLOW, OKAY? CAN WE AGREE WITH

THAT?

MS. CRUZ: I'M NOT SURE WHAT FRIEND YOU'RE TALKING

ABOUT, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT --

MR. MORINELLO: SOMEONE WITHIN THIS CHAMBER.

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. MORINELLO: YES. THAT PERSON ACTUALLY --

MS. CRUZ: BUT IF I MAY --

MR. MORINELLO: YES, SURE.

MS. CRUZ: IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT PERSON

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

IN THIS CHAMBER, I'M SURE HE'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO TELL YOU HOW

ABSOLUTELY DIFFICULT AND EXCRUCIATING IT WAS PROBABLY FOR HIM TO GET THAT

CHANCE. SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS, IF THAT PERSON HAS COMMITTED A

CRIME, IF THAT PERSON HAS PAID THEIR DUES, IF THAT PERSON HAS COME OUT

AND DEMONSTRATED THAT THEY ARE A CONTRIBUTING MEMBER OF SOCIETY BUT

THEY HAVE THESE SET OF ROADBLOCKS THAT DOESN'T ALLOW THEM TO GET A JOB

TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILY, TO GET DIGNIFIED HOUSING, TO ACTUALLY MOVE

ON AND FINISH CONTRIBUTING TO SOCIETY, THEN WE, AS A GOVERNMENT, HAVE A

RESPONSIBILITY TO CREATE THE KIND OF SYSTEM THAT WOULD ALLOW IT TO

HAPPEN.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. BUT THAT WAS EXACTLY THE

POINT, CREATE A SYSTEM TO HELP THEM, NOT DO IT FOR THEM. AND -- AND

ONCE YOU START GIVING HANDOUTS RATHER THAN HAND-UPS, OKAY, YOU START

LOSING THAT PERSON'S SELF-AWARENESS. THAT PERSON THEN BECOMES SO

RELIANT ON GOVERNMENT THAT THEY FIND IT DIFFICULT TO MOVE ON THEIR OWN.

MS. CRUZ: I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE DISAGREE BECAUSE

WHEN GOVERNMENT IS ABLE TO DO THIS, IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT

RELIANCE ON GOVERNMENT, A LOT OF THESE FOLKS HAVE TO GO ON PUBLIC

ASSISTANCE, ON GOVERNMENT SUPPORT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T WORK, BECAUSE

THEY CAN'T FIND THAT SUPPORT. SO WE, AS GOVERNMENT, WE ARE LOOKING AT

THE SAME PICTURE AND SAYING EXACTLY THE SAME THING FROM TWO DIFFERENT

ANGLES. WE ARE -- I ACTUALLY SEE THIS AS THE SYSTEM THAT'S SET UP NOT TO

GIVE THEM A HANDOUT, BUT TO ENSURE THAT GOVERNMENT IS DOING WHAT

WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.

MR. MORINELLO: GETTING BACK TO THE EMPLOYMENT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ISSUE, IS THERE ANY PROHIBITION RIGHT NOW, OTHER THAN CERTAIN LICENSING,

TO A -- FOR AN EMPLOYER NOT TO HIRE SOMEBODY ON A LEGAL BASIS?

MS. CRUZ: YOU MEAN NOT TO HIRE SOMEBODY IN

GENERAL?

MR. MORINELLO: IN OTHER WORDS, SOMEBODY

APPLIES FOR A POSITION. IS THERE ANY LEGAL IMPEDIMENT FOR THAT EMPLOYER

TO NOT HIRE SOMEONE?

MS. CRUZ: I ASSUME YOU MEAN TO HIRE SOMEBODY

WITH A CRIMINAL RECORD?

MR. MORINELLO: YES.

MS. CRUZ: OKAY.

MR. MORINELLO: THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH,

SO...

MS. CRUZ: IT DEPENDS. THERE ARE CERTAIN EMPLOYERS

WHO ARE NOT ABLE TO.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, THOSE THAT ARE NOT

PROHIBITED, WHETHER -- BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE A LICENSING ISSUE, OKAY? SO

AT THIS POINT CAN WE AGREE THAT THERE IS REALLY NO PROHIBITION?

MS. CRUZ: I AM GOING TO DISAGREE WITH YOU. THERE

IS CLEARLY A PROBLEM WHEN WE HAVE 2.3 MILLION NEW YORKERS WHO HAVE

BEEN TRYING TO FIND WORK OR MOVE UP WITHIN THEIR WORKPLACE. AND

LATER, I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT A FEW OF THEM. IF IT WAS SO EASY, YOU AND I

WOULDN'T BE HERE HAVING THIS DEBATE.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. HOW DOES THIS AFFECT

OUT-OF-STATE CONVICTIONS?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: IT DOES NOT. WE'RE NOT SEALING

OUT-OF-STATE CONVICTIONS.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. ALSO, THERE'S A PORTION OF

THE LAW THAT HAS A PENALTY IF SOMEONE WHO -- AN EXCEPTION TO THE

INFORMATION BEING GIVEN OUT, OKAY, WHEREAS IF THAT INFORMATION IS

GIVEN IT WOULD OPEN THE DOOR TO SOME TYPE OF A CIVIL ACTION; AM I

CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THERE IS A SECTION THAT MORE OR LESS SAYS

IF SOMEONE WHO WAS AUTHORIZED TO HAVE ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION IS

MISUSING THAT INFORMATION, THERE WILL BE SOME -- THERE WILL BE

CONSEQUENCES.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. SO DOES THAT -- HOW DOES

THAT APPLY TO A VICTIM WHO KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED AND -- AND DOES

REVEAL THAT INFORMATION?

MS. CRUZ: THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO SOMEONE WHO'S

NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR SEALING OR ACCESSING THAT INFORMATION.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. SO THAT -- THAT SECTION

ONLY APPLIES TO ONE WHO HAS AN EXCEPTION. IT WOULD NOT APPLY TO A

VICTIM, A WITNESS, A NEWSPAPER, A MAGAZINE THAT HAS PRIOR KNOWLEDGE?

MS. CRUZ: NO, IT DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM UNLESS

SOMEHOW THEY HAVE A DUTY TO SEAL, WHICH I'M SURE WE CAN, YOU KNOW,

SOME WEIRD LAW & ORDER: SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT TYPE OF SCENARIO

WHERE, I'M SURE YOU CAN THINK OF IT, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, THESE FOLKS

WOULDN'T HAVE A DUTY TO SEAL, SO IT WOULD NOT APPLY TO THEM.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ON THE BILL.

THANK YOU FOR THE COURTESY.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

MR. MORINELLO: I APPRECIATE IT. IT'S GOING TO BE A

LONG DAY, SO I'LL MOVE ON THE BILL.

ON THE BILL.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT NEITHER I NOR ANY

OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO REMOVING IMPEDIMENTS FROM

SOMEONE WHO HAS PAID THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY FROM GOING FORWARD. IT IS

JUST THAT AS SOMEONE WHO HAS GROWN UP WITH RESPONSIBILITY FOR

CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS, DESIGNING YOUR OWN FUTURE, THAT WE FEEL

THAT THERE SHOULD BE MORE OF A OVER -- OVERVIEW. THE PROCESSES THAT

WE ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE IN THE STATE TO ASSIST THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE

PROCESSES THAT THEY HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD ON. THESE PROCESSES

AGREEABLY COULD BE A LITTLE CONFUSING, BUT WE COULD ALSO GIVE THEM, AS

WE HAVE STATED, THE RULES, GIVE THEM THE ASSISTANCE AND GIVE THEM THE

APPLICATION. THE PROCESSES IN PLACE ARE AN ADDITIONAL REVIEW TO MAKE

SURE THAT THAT PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL --

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: MR. MORINELLO, YOUR

TIME IS UP.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSE OF AN

ANNOUNCEMENT.

MR. MORINELLO: YEAH, I'M GOING TO -- EXCUSE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ME. I'M GOING TO RESERVE MY NEXT -- THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. MR. MORINELLO, JUST ONE SECOND. IF I COULD JUST ASK THE

SPEAKER TO CALL THE RULES COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE

ROOM, PLEASE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: RULES COMMITTEE IN

THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

MR. MORINELLO: JUST -- I'M GOING TO SAVE MY 15

AS THE RANKER FOR LATER, BUT THANK YOU, IT WAS A PLEASURE.

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: MR. REILLY.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: DOES THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: WILL DO.

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ. SO ONE

SPECIFIC THING, WELL, JUST TO CLARIFY, RIGHT, A MISDEMEANOR UNDER THIS BILL

WILL BE SEALED AFTER THREE YEARS?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. REILLY: AND FELONIES --

MS. CRUZ: IF THERE'S BEEN NO RECOMMITTING OF A

CRIME, IF YOU WILL.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. AND FELONIES WILL BE

EIGHT YEARS?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO LAYING --

MS. CRUZ: WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS.

MR. REILLY: I'M SORRY?

MS. CRUZ: WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU. SO LAYING THAT

FOUNDATION, THE QUESTION I HAVE IS THERE ARE SEVERAL CRIMES IN THE PENAL

LAW THAT IF A PRIOR CONVICTION WAS COMMITTED, IF A PRIOR CONVICTION FOR

A CRIME THAT WAS COMMITTED, A SECOND OR ANOTHER CRIME COULD ELEVATE

THE CHARGE TO A FINE -- TO --TO A FELONY. WOULD THAT BE ALLOWED AFTER IT'S

SEALED?

MS. CRUZ: IT -- IT WILL -- IT WOULD BE. WE ARE

CREATING AN EXCEPTION TO ENSURE THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND THAT

INCLUDES POLICE OFFICERS, DISTRICT ATTORNEYS, IN CONDUCTING THEIR JOB CAN

ACCESS THAT INFORMATION.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO -- SO JUST TO LAY IT OUT IN A

SCENARIO, SO IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO'S CONVICTED OF A DWI, A

MISDEMEANOR, ALL RIGHT, AND THEY GET SIX MONTHS, SAY, PROBATION. AND

NOW...

MS. CRUZ: GO AHEAD.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO THEY -- THEY GET -- THEY GET

CONVICTED AND THEY'RE SENTENCED TO SIX MONTHS PROBATION, SAY. ALL

RIGHT? AND NOW AFTER THAT SIX MONTHS IS SERVED, THREE YEARS GO BY AND

THE DWI CONVICTION IS SEALED. ON YEAR EIGHT, THEY COMMIT ANOTHER

DWI. THAT -- WITH THE PRIOR CONVICTION IT WOULD BE RAISED TO A FELONY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

I KNOW THAT YOU SAID THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT, SO POLICE -- POLICE AGENCIES

AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS' OFFICES WILL HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE. NOW, THEY

MAY CHARGE IT. IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE LAW THAT PREVENTS IT FROM BEING

ADMISSIBLE IN COURT WITHOUT JUDICIAL REVIEW?

MS. CRUZ: NO, THERE ISN'T.

MR. REILLY: SO IT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY, THE -- THE

CHARGE OF A FELONY THAT -- WOULD RAISE TO A FELONY, WOULD AUTOMATICALLY

BE PRESENTED IN COURT AT ARRAIGNMENT WITHOUT A JUDGE RULING?

MS. CRUZ: WITHOUT A JUDGE RULING IF THE DISTRICT

ATTORNEY SO WISHES TO PROCEED THAT WAY.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO THE SAME -- WOULD THE SAME

APPLY -- THE SAME APPLY WOULD BE FOR ANY OTHER CRIME, RIGHT, THAT

WOULD RAISE IT TO A FELONY?

MS. CRUZ: SO JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME CLARITY, I WANT

TO READ YOU FROM -- FROM THE SECTION.

MR. REILLY: OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: A CONVICTION WHICH IS SEALED PURSUANT

TO THIS SECTION IS INCLUDED WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF A CONVICTION FOR THE

PURPOSES OF ANY CRIMINAL PROCEEDING IN WHICH THE FACT OF A PRIOR

CONVICTION WOULD ENHANCE A PENALTY OR IS THE ELEMENT OF THE OFFENSE

CHARGED.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MS. CRUZ: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: MS. SIMON.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD ASK

THE SPONSOR IF SHE WOULD YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: DOES THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE

TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT I HAVE A FEW THINGS VERY CLEAR ON THIS BILL. SO

THIS BILL COVERS PEOPLE WITH CLASS A FELONY CONVICTIONS FOR WHICH LIFE

IMPRISONMENT IS THE MAXIMUM SENTENCE. THEY'RE PRECLUDED FROM

BEING SEALED UNDER THIS BILL; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT. YOU KNOW, SOMEONE

WITH A LIFE SENTENCE, EVEN IF THE PERSON GETS PAROLE, ARE USUALLY ON

PAROLE FOR LIFE AND THEY WOULD BE EXCLUDED FROM ACCESSING THE SEALING.

MS. SIMON: OKAY. AND WHAT ABOUT FOR OUT-OF-STATE

AND FEDERAL CONVICTIONS? THIS INFORMATION IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE

RECORDS THAT WE WOULD BE SEALING UNDER THIS BILL; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: WE HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO SEAL FEDERAL OR

OUT-OF-STATE RECORDS. AND SO THIS WOULDN'T IMPACT THE INFORMATION THAT

AN EMPLOYER WHO PERFORMS PERHAPS A PUBLIC RECORD SEARCH VERSUS, SAY,

A FINGERPRINT SEARCH WOULD BE ABLE TO GET.

MS. SIMON: GREAT, I'M GLAD YOU RAISED --

MENTIONED THAT, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THAT ANY EMPLOYER CAN REQUEST --

WELL, ACTUALLY, HERE'S MY QUESTION. THE BETTER QUESTION IS CAN ANY

EMPLOYER REQUEST THAT AN APPLICANT GET A FINGERPRINT-BASED BACKGROUND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

CHECK THAT SHOWS THAT THERE ARE IN- OR OUT-OF-STATE CONVICTIONS?

MS. CRUZ: UM, NO. LABOR LAW SECTION 201(A)

LARGELY PROHIBITS EMPLOYERS FROM REQUESTING FINGERPRINT-BASED

BACKGROUND CHECKS EXCEPT WHERE OTHERWISE AUTHORIZED BY THE LAW.

MS. SIMON: BUT EMPLOYERS LIKE DAYCARE CENTERS, FOR

EXAMPLE, OPWDD RESIDENTIAL PROVIDERS, NURSING HOMES ALL STILL

RECEIVE INFORMATION THAT'S SEALED UNDER THIS BILL BECAUSE THEY ARE

ALREADY ENTITIES THAT REQUIRE BACKGROUND CHECKS; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: YES. AND WE'VE ALSO MADE A CONCERTED

EFFORT TO ENSURE THAT ENTITIES LIKE THESE THAT WORK WITH WHAT WE WOULD

DEEM VULNERABLE POPULATIONS, YOUNG PEOPLE, CHILDREN, FOLKS WITH

SPECIAL NEEDS, ET CETERA, WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THAT INFORMATION.

MS. SIMON: AND IS THAT BECAUSE THE STATE OR

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS DETERMINED THAT THERE ARE SOME CRIMINAL

CONVICTIONS WHERE THAT CONDUCT SHOULD FORECLOSE WORK WITH CERTAIN

POPULATIONS?

MS. CRUZ: HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

(PAUSE)

YES.

MS. SIMON: GREAT. AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT EVEN IN

THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, AN EMPLOYER STILL CANNOT DECLINE TO HIRE AN

OTHERWISE QUALIFIED CANDIDATE SOLELY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CRIMINAL

CONVICTION, THAT THEY HAVE TO ADDRESS THE FACTORS THAT ARE IN ARTICLE

23(A) OF THE NEW YORK STATE CORRECTION LAW. AND I'D LIKE TO LIST SOME

OF THOSE AND FIND OUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE. SO THOSE FACTORS, AS I

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

UNDERSTAND IT, ARE A PUBLIC POLICY OF THE STATE TO ENCOURAGE THE

EMPLOYMENT OF PERSONS PREVIOUSLY CONVICTED OF ONE OR MORE CRIMINAL

OFFENSES; THE SPECIFIC RESPONSIBILITIES OF EMPLOYMENT SOUGHT, THAT

PARTICULAR EMPLOYMENT SOUGHT; THE BEARING, IF ANY, THAT THE CRIMINAL

OFFENSE OR OFFENSES FOR WHICH THE PERSON WAS PREVIOUSLY CONVICTED WILL

HAVE ON THE PERSON'S FITNESS TO PERFORM THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES; THE TIME

THAT'S PASSED SINCE THE OCCURRENCE OF THE CRIMINAL OFFENSE; THE AGE OF

THE PERSON AT THE TIME OF THE OFFENSE; THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE OFFENSE;

THE INFORMATION PRODUCED BY THE PERSON REGARDING THEIR REHABILITATION;

AS WELL AS ANY LEGITIMATE INTERESTS OF THE EMPLOYER IN PROTECTING

PROPERTY AND THE SAFETY AND WELFARE OF SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS OR OF THE

GENERAL PUBLIC; AND THAT ABSENT A DETERMINATION THAT THERE'S A DIRECT

RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PRIOR OFFENSE AND THE SPECIFIC EMPLOYMENT

SOUGHT, OR THE EMPLOYMENT OF THE PERSON WOULD INVOLVE AN

UNREASONABLE RISK TO PROPERTY OR TO THE SAFETY OR WELFARE OF SPECIFIC

INDIVIDUALS, AN EMPLOYER WOULD BE ENGAGING IN DISCRIMINATION IF THEY

DENIED THAT EMPLOYMENT; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT; I -- I FULLY AGREE WITH

THAT.

MS. SIMON: SO WE'RE NOT PRECLUDING CRIMINAL

CONVICTION REVIEWS FOR ANYONE WITHIN THE TIME FRAME BETWEEN THE

CONVICTION AND THE SEALING, AND WE'RE NOT PRECLUDING CRIMINAL

CONVICTION INFORMATION FROM BEING SHARED WHERE THE EMPLOYERS ARE

PERFORMING FINGERPRINT BACKGROUND CHECKS, WHICH IS A MORE OFFICIAL

RECORD THAN THE OTHERWISE PUBLICLY-AVAILABLE INFORMATION. BUT WE'RE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ALSO NOT CHANGING THE FACT THAT EMPLOYERS CANNOT DISCRIMINATE SOLELY

ON THE BASIS OF A CRIMINAL CONVICTION, WHICH IS A PROHIBITION THAT HAS

EXISTED IN NEW YORK STATE SINCE 1977; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE IT.

ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: ON THE BILL.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU. WHOOPS, GOTTA GET MY

NOTES HERE, SORRY. SO I'D LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS BILL. YOU KNOW, I WAS

RAISED IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC FAITH, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE

LIKENED THE CONSEQUENCES OF A CONVICTION SUBSEQUENT TO THE PERSON

SERVING THEIR TIME AND DOING EVERYTHING THAT THEY NEEDED TO DO TO

REJOIN SOCIETY AND THE BARRIERS THAT EXIST IS SOMEWHAT AKIN TO

EX-COMMUNICATION. AND AS YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT HISTORY

EX-COMMUNICATION WAS A VERY, VERY SEVERE PENALTY AND PEOPLE WOULD

BE SHUNNED AND UNABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN SOCIETY. AND AN EXAMPLE OF

SOMEBODY LIKE THAT IS GREGORY PIERCE, WHO'S 71 YEARS OLD AND HAS BEEN

CALLING FOR THE PASSAGE OF THE CLEAN SLATE LEGISLATION TO REMOVE WHAT

HE CALLS "THE PAPER HANDCUFFS" OF THE BARRIERS THAT HAVE PLACED HIM IN

PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT. AND HE HAS WRITTEN THAT HIS ENTIRE LIFE WAS

CHANGED BECAUSE OF A CONVICTION HISTORY, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT

REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PERSON HE IS TODAY. DESPITE EVERYTHING THAT I'VE

DONE FOR MY COMMUNITY, I'VE BEEN REPEATEDLY DENIED HOUSING AND JOBS,

AND ALL I WANT TO DO IS CONTRIBUTE, BUT OUR SYSTEM WON'T LET ME.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AND SO FOR GREGORY AND THE 2.3 MILLION PEOPLE WHO

WOULD BE AFFECTED BY THE PASSAGE OF THIS LEGISLATION, I WILL BE VOTING IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: MR. TANNOUSIS.

MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. DOES

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER RIVERA: DOES THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. MS. CRUZ, I -- I DON'T

WANT TO BE REPETITIVE, SO I'M GONNA TO TRY TO BE AS SHORT AS POSSIBLE

BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF MY OTHER --

MS. CRUZ: HIGHLY APPRECIATE IT.

MR. TANNOUSIS: -- COLLEAGUES HAVE SPOKEN. MY

PLEASURE. MS. CRUZ, I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY CERTAIN THINGS, OKAY?

WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL THAT PERHAPS HAS A FELONY OR MISDEMEANOR

CONVICTION AND THE PROPER TIME HAS ELAPSED WHERE THIS LAW WOULD

APPLY, IS THERE ANYTHING PROACTIVE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO ON THEIR

PART TO HAVE THEIR CONVICTION SEALED?

MS. CRUZ: NO, IT WOULD BE AUTOMATIC. WE'VE SET

UP THE SYSTEM, WE'VE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH OCA, WITH DCJS

TO ENSURE THAT A SYSTEM HAS BEEN SET UP WHERE THERE ARE CHECKS SEVERAL

TIMES A YEAR TO THESE RECORDS SO THAT IT BECOMES AN AUTOMATIC PROCESS.

MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. AND OBVIOUSLY -- AND I

KNOW YOU HAD A DISCUSSION WITH ASSEMBLYMEMBER MORINELLO, YOU ARE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

OBVIOUSLY AWARE THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN MECHANISMS ALREADY IN PLACE,

FOR EXAMPLE, THE CERTIFICATE OF CIVIL RELIEF, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. AND THAT BASICALLY -- AND

YOU WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THAT WOULD SEAL SOMEBODY'S CRIMINAL

RECORD AS WELL, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: IT DOESN'T SEAL YOUR RECORD, IT JUST TELLS

SOMEONE THAT YOU'VE BEEN BEHAVING.

MR. TANNOUSIS: WELL, THERE -- THERE IS A

MECHANISM THAT WOULD SEAL --

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S A DIFFERENT ONE. HE DID SPEAK OF

THE SEALING PIECE.

MR. TANNOUSIS: YES, THERE ARE MECHANISMS IN

PLACE --

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S AN APPLICATION PROCESS, YES.

MR. TANNOUSIS: CORRECT. SO IN ACTUALITY, NOTHING

REALLY PREVENTED THIS BODY FROM PERHAPS EITHER PASSING LEGISLATION OR

MAKING IT EASIER FOR SOMEONE TO APPLY THROUGH THAT PROCESS IN ORDER TO

HAVE THAT DONE, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, WE ARE ALL ABOUT EFFECTIVENESS.

I'M SURE THAT THAT'S THE ONE THING THAT BOTH OF OUR SIDES CAN AGREE ON,

AND THE CURRENT LAW HAS NOT BEEN AS EFFECTIVE IN HELPING PEOPLE

ACTUALLY ACCESS THIS PROCESS. IT IS A COSTLY, TIME-CONSUMING PROCESS,

YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY. THERE ARE ONLY A HANDFUL OF NON-PROFITS THAT

ACTUALLY DO IT FOR FREE, AND IT'S NOT A GUARANTEE. AND I JUST WANT TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

CHECK ONE FACT TO --

(PAUSE)

AND IT'S NOT JUST TIME-CONSUMING FOR THE PERSON

APPLYING, BUT ALSO FOR THE STATE BECAUSE IT HAS TO GO IN FRONT OF THE DA,

IN FRONT OF THE COURT, AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE HERE IS A SYSTEM

THAT ENSURES THAT -- AND -- AND SINCE I MENTIONED THE DAS, I WILL SAY

WE'VE HAD EXTENSIVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM TO ENSURE THAT THE

PROCESS THAT WE'VE SET UP IS SOMETHING THAT THE MAJORITY OF THEM WERE

ALSO COMFORTABLE WITH. AND SO THE SYSTEM THAT IS SET UP NOW IS -- IS

TIME-CONSUMING FOR THE PERSON, IT'S TIME-CONSUMING FOR THE STATE, AND

WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS IN A SYSTEM THAT -- THAT ACTUALLY

WORKS.

MR. TANNOUSIS: I'M HAPPY YOU BROUGHT UP THE

DISTRICT ATTORNEYS' OFFICE. DID YOU -- HAVE YOU BEEN IN TOUCH WITH ANY

POLICE DEPARTMENTS, WHETHER IT'S THE NYPD OR POLICE DEPARTMENTS

THROUGHOUT THE STATE IN REGARDS TO THIS LEGISLATION?

MS. CRUZ: WE HAVE. I ACTUALLY HAD A VERY

PRODUCTIVE MEETING WITH THE NYPD LAST YEAR, AND WE INCLUDED SOME OF

THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS AS WELL.

MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. DID YOU HAVE ANY TYPE OF

CONTACT WITH CRIME VICTIMS GROUPS?

MS. CRUZ: WE HAVE. IN THE OVER 200 GROUPS THAT

SUPPORT CLEAN SLATE THERE ARE SEVERAL VICTIM GROUPS. AND THERE WAS

ACTUALLY A OP-ED THAT CAME OUT, I WANT TO SAY LAST WEEK OR THE WEEK

BEFORE, FROM THE LEADER OF ONE OF THOSE GROUPS WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

HOW -- HOW THIS KIND OF LEGISLATION IS SOMETHING THAT THEY SUPPORT.

MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. AND I KNOW THAT YOU

MENTIONED THAT IT'S A CUMBERSOME PROCESS, IT COULD BE CUMBERSOME

PERHAPS FOR THE COURT SYSTEM OR FOR DIFFERENT VARIOUS MAYBE

NOT-FOR-PROFITS. BUT YOU WOULD CONCEDE AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT IT IS

POSSIBLE TO MAKE IT EASIER TO HAVE A SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY COULD

APPLY FOR THIS, PERHAPS SPEAK TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, GO

BEFORE A COURT AND HAVE IT REVIEWED ON CASE-BY-CASE BASIS, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: SO, YOU HAVING WORKED FOR THE DISTRICT

ATTORNEY'S OFFICE KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO GET ANYTHING DONE WITHIN

GOVERNMENT. I WOULD SAY THAT THIS IS HOW WE'RE MAKING IT EASIER FOR ALL

SIDES INVOLVED.

MR. TANNOUSIS: BUT YOU WOULD AGREE THIS IS A

BLANKET LAW, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: NO, I WOULDN'T. AS YOU ARE PROBABLY

AWARE, THERE ARE A FEW EXCEPTIONS AND PEOPLE DO HAVE TO MAINTAIN A

LIFE FREE OF RECOMMITTING CRIME, SO IT'S NOT A BLANKET.

MR. TANNOUSIS: YOU MENTIONED FREE OF

COMMITTING CRIME, BUT IN ACTUALITY IT'S NOT FREE OF COMMITTING CRIME.

IN ACTUALITY --

MS. CRUZ: NO, I SAID RECOMMITTING, R-E.

MR. TANNOUSIS: RECOMMITTING, CORRECT. BUT I

THINK WHAT YOU MEAN, ASSEMBLYMEMBER CRUZ, IS THAT IT'S FREE OF BEING

CONVICTED OF A CRIME, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, WE ARE LAWYERS AND WE BELIEVE IN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE CONSTITUTION, SO EVERYBODY IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

MR. TANNOUSIS: BUT YOU WOULD AGREE THAT IN THE

CITY OF NEW YORK AND THE STATE OF NEW YORK THERE ARE -- THERE ARE

SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE COMMIT CRIMES BUT PERHAPS ARE NOT CONVICTED

OF COMMITTING A CRIME, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: I WOULD ALSO AGREE THAT THERE ARE

SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE TAKE PLEAS EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE INNOCENT.

MR. TANNOUSIS: AND YOU WOULD ALSO AGREE THAT

IN COURTROOMS THROUGHOUT THE STATE -- YOU'RE AN ATTORNEY, I'M AN

ATTORNEY, WE'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN WHETHER IT'S IN THE BRONX, QUEENS, THE

CITY OR THE STATE OF NEW YORK -- THERE IS PLEA BARGAINING THAT OCCURS

BETWEEN THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND DEFENSE COUNSELS EVERY DAY,

CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

(PAUSE)

IS YOUR -- SO YOUR QUESTION WAS ARE THERE PLEA

AGREEMENTS HAPPENING EVERY DAY?

MR. TANNOUSIS: OBVIOUSLY --

MS. CRUZ: OR -- OR IS YOUR QUESTION ARE THESE PLEA

AGREEMENTS FAIR?

MR. TANNOUSIS: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

MS. CRUZ: OKAY.

MR. TANNOUSIS: MY QUESTION IS, ARE YOU AWARE

THAT THERE ARE PLEA AGREEMENTS THAT OCCUR BETWEEN PROSECUTORS, DEFENSE

ATTORNEYS IN CONSULTATION --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: YES, IT'S PART OF THE PROCESS; YES.

MR. TANNOUSIS: -- WITH THE DEFENDANTS EVERY DAY.

OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

MR. TANNOUSIS: ON THE BILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR

MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU. AS MANY KNOW, I

WAS A PROSECUTOR FOR EIGHT YEARS, FIVE YEARS IN THE BRONX, THREE YEARS

ON STATEN ISLAND. EVERY SINGLE DAY I WENT TO -- TO THE COURTROOM WHERE

WE PLEA BARGAINED CASES. DEFENDANTS EITHER TOOK PLEAS TO LESSER

CHARGES OR THEY DECIDED TO TAKE THEIR CASES TO TRIAL. EACH AND EVERY

TIME AN INDIVIDUAL DID THAT, THEY DID THAT WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT

THE CHARGE WOULD APPEAR ON THEIR CRIMINAL RECORD. NOW, OBVIOUSLY,

OBVIOUSLY, WHAT WE WANT IS FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A SECOND CHANCE.

OBVIOUSLY, WHAT WE WANT IS FOR PEOPLE TO BECOME PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS

OF SOCIETY, TO GET A PIECE OF THAT AMERICAN DREAM. FOR THAT REASON,

THERE ARE MECHANISMS IN PLACE, AND AS A PROSECUTOR I SAW A LOT OF THESE,

WHERE PEOPLE WOULD COME IN WITH THESE CERTIFICATES, TALK TO THE DA'S

OFFICE, GO BEFORE A JUDGE. AND I WOULD HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT VERY

RARELY WERE THESE CERTIFICATES, WERE THESE APPLICATIONS DENIED BECAUSE

WE HAVE EVERY INCENTIVE FOR PEOPLE TO BECOME PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF

SOCIETY AND LIVE THAT AMERICAN DREAM.

THE REASON WHY I CANNOT SUPPORT THIS LAW IS THAT IT IS A

BLANKET LAW. IT'S NOT FOR THE -- IT'S NOT IN REGARDS TO THE PEOPLE THAT

WANT TO CHANGE THEIR LIVES, IT'S FOR THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO CHANGE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THEIR LIVES. AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS LAW WILL AFFECT EVERYONE. YOU

CANNOT -- AND I'VE SAID THIS MULTIPLE TIMES -- YOU CANNOT HAVE BLANKET

LAWS IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. EVERYTHING IS A CASE-BY-CASE

BASIS. ONCE YOU START IMPLEMENTING BLANKET LAWS, THERE IS A HIGHER

CHANCE THAT THINGS ARE GONNA SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS.

I CANNOT SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION AND I ALSO ADVISE ALL

MY COLLEAGUES NOT TO SUPPORT IT AS WELL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. FLOOD.

MR. FLOOD: THANK YOU, SPEAKER. WOULD THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR JUST A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: SURE THING.

MR. FLOOD: AND I'LL DO MY BEST NOT --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ YIELDS, SIR.

MR. FLOOD: -- TO BE REPETITIVE. I KNOW THAT YOU

JUST SPOKE WITH MY COLLEAGUE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AFTER EIGHT YEARS IT'S

GOING TO BE AUTOMATICALLY CONVICTED -- OR I'M SORRY, IT GOING TO BE

AUTOMATICALLY SEALED RECORDS. IS THERE ANY AVENUE FOR MAYBE LAW

ENFORCEMENT IF THERE'S A INDIVIDUAL WHO'S CLOSE TO THAT TIME FRAME OF

HAVING THEM AUTOMATIC SEALED, BUT ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION WITH

PROBABLE CAUSE THAT THEY PROBABLY DID COMMIT ANOTHER VIOLATION? IS

THERE SOME WAY TO STOP THIS PROCESS BEFORE THAT'S SEALED AND BEFORE THE

CONVICTION'S AUTOMATICALLY SEALED?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: IS THIS A PERSON WHO'S UNDER

INVESTIGATION OR HAS A CHARGE PENDING?

MR. FLOOD: NO, UNDER INVESTIGATION.

MS. CRUZ: I MEAN, AS YOU KNOW, UNDER

INVESTIGATION IS NOT NECESSARILY SOMEONE WHO EITHER HAS A CHARGE

PENDING OR EVEN AN ACCUSATION. UNDER INVESTIGATION, THERE WOULD BE

NO OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO DO THAT. IF THE PERSON HAS A PENDING CHARGE

OR THE PERSON HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF ANOTHER CRIME, THERE -- THEY

WOULDN'T QUALITY FOR -- FOR THIS.

MR. FLOOD: OKAY, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT LIKE --

LIKE YOU JUST SAID, OFTENTIMES, ESPECIALLY WITH COMPLEX CRIMES,

WHETHER THEY'RE ON THE FINANCIAL ASPECTS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THESE --

THESE INVESTIGATIONS SOMETIMES TAKE YEARS. SO DO YOU -- IS IT FAIR TO SAY

THAT WE COULD END UP -- LAW ENFORCEMENT COULD END UP BRINGING

CHARGES PREMATURELY BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE ABLE KEEP THAT CONVICTION

AS A PART OF THEIR RECORD GOING FORWARD?

MS. CRUZ: THAT -- NO -- WELL, I -- I WANT TO MAKE

SURE SOMETHING IS CLEAR: THAT CONVICTION THAT IS ABOUT TO BE SEALED

WOULD STILL BE ACCESSIBLE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AS A PART OF THEIR

INVESTIGATION. SO BECAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY PAID FOR THAT CRIME HERE AND

THIS CRIME IS ABOUT TO BE SEALED, IF THEY'RE NOT UNDER INVESTIGATION FOR A

NEW CRIME, NOTHING STOPS THEM FROM ACTUALLY CHARGING THIS PERSON,

EVEN IF IT'S PAST THE EIGHT YEARS, EVEN IF IT'S PAST THE THREE YEARS, OR USING

THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE IT'S THROUGH LAW ENFORCEMENT. BUT I THINK

YOU WOULD AGREE THAT IF SOMEONE IS SIMPLY UNDER INVESTIGATION, THEY

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

HAVEN'T BEEN FOUND GUILTY, PROBABLE CAUSE IS -- HAS BEEN LITIGATED OVER

AND OVER, AND HOLDING SOMEONE PRESUMABLY HOSTAGE TO NOT HAVING

THEIR RECORD SEALED SIMPLY BECAUSE WE MAY OR MAY NOT CHARGE THEM AT

A LATER POINT IS UNFAIR.

MR. FLOOD: POTENTIALLY, BUT IT'S ALSO POTENTIALLY

UNFAIR, SAY -- SAY I WAS CONVICTED OF A PONZI SCHEME WHERE I, YOU

KNOW, I STOLE THOUSANDS OF SENIORS', YOU KNOW, RETIREMENT FUNDS, AND

NOW I'M UNDER INVESTIGATION FOR DOING ARGUABLY THE SAME THING AND MY

CONVICTION'S ABOUT TO BE SEALED, AND I'M GOING TO GO APPLY TO A PRIVATE

EQUITIES FIRM MANAGING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF SENIORS' BOOKS. DO -- DO

YOU NOT THINK IT'S NOT FAIR TO THE PRIVATE EQUITIES FIRM TO BE ABLE TO

ACCESS THOSE RECORDS, SPECIFICALLY IF THEY WERE UNDER INVESTIGATION?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, FINRA REQUIRES -- FINRA

REQUIRES THAT FINGERPRINT-BASED ACCESS AND WE ARE NOT STOPPING THEM

FROM ACCESSING THAT INFORMATION.

MR. FLOOD: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO THERE'S NO -- SO

ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME, AND I'M SORRY, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE

REPETITIVE, IS THAT THERE'S -- SHORT OF BEING CHARGED WITH ANOTHER CRIME,

THERE'S NO WAY TO SLOW THAT PROCESS UP OR DELAY IT WHILE POTENTIALLY

OTHER INVESTIGATIONS ARE ONGOING?

MS. CRUZ: CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION TO CLARIFY?

MR. FLOOD: SURE.

MS. CRUZ: IS THE PURPOSE THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO

SLOW IT DOWN OR NOT SEAL IT SO THAT YOU, AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OR

PROSECUTOR, COULD USE THAT CONVICTION AS PART OF YOUR CASE?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. FLOOD: THAT -- THAT'S DEFINITELY POSSIBLE, ONE

OF THEM.

MS. CRUZ: WELL, IF THAT'S THE -- IF THAT'S THE -- ONE

POSSIBILITY IN THAT INSTANCE EVEN IF THE CASE IS SEALED FOR OTHER

PURPOSES, LAW ENFORCEMENT WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS THAT

INFORMATION. AND AS I EXPLAINED EARLIER TO YOUR COLLEAGUE MR. REILLY,

IF IT IS ONE OF THOSE CRIMES THAT COULD THEN BE USED TO ENHANCE YOUR

SENTENCE, THEY WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS IT.

MR. FLOOD: OKAY, GREAT. BUT THAT -- THAT WAS ONLY

JUST ONE PART OF IT. THE OTHER ASPECT OF IT IS TO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE

GENERAL PUBLIC WELFARE, AS IN ARE WE SAYING -- NOW SAYING THAT SOMEONE

WHO IS LOOKING EMPLOYMENT IN A FIELD WHERE THERE WAS, YOU KNOW,

THERE WAS A LEVEL OF DECEIT IN THEIR MISCONDUCT AND THAT THE EMPLOYER

NOW, THOUGH I -- I DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME PROTECTIONS IN THERE FOR

THE EMPLOYERS IF THEY SHOULD BE SUED BECAUSE SOMETHING HAD

HAPPENED, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT THERE'S REALLY NO PROTECTIONS THERE FOR

THE VICTIMS OF THOSE CRIMES THEN. SO THAT -- THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING,

BEFORE YOU PUT IT --

MS. CRUZ: BUT THOSE ARE, WE'RE CONFLATING TWO

BECAUSE ONE IS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT PURPOSES --

MR. FLOOD: YEAH.

MS. CRUZ: -- THE OTHER ONE IS FOR EMPLOYMENT

PURPOSES.

MR. FLOOD: YEAH.

MS. CRUZ: IF WE'RE GOING TO USE THE SAME EXAMPLE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THAT YOU USED OF SOMEONE WHO'S IN -- IN THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY, THEY

HAVE THEIR OWN SET OF REGULATIONS, AND IF THEY HAPPEN TO BE THE KIND OF

FINANCIAL INSTITUTION THAT ALREADY HAS ACCESS TO THAT, WE'VE CREATED

CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THAT INFORMATION.

WE'RE NOT STOPPING THAT FROM HAPPENING.

MR. FLOOD: OKAY. COULD YOU POINT TO ME WHERE

THAT IS?

MS. CRUZ: HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

MR. FLOOD: THANK YOU.

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: GENERALLY, THAT EXEMPTION COMES AS --

PURSUANT TO FEDERAL LAW AND WE'VE CREATED AN EXEMPTION WHERE WE'RE

NOT SEALING -- WELL, BECAUSE DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO SEAL FEDERAL

CONVICTIONS.

MR. FLOOD: OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: AND IF YOU'D LIKE, I CAN READ THE SPECIFIC

SECTION FOR YOU, IF THAT HELPS.

MR. FLOOD: I'LL TAKE YOU ON YOUR WORD FOR THAT, BUT

THANK YOU.

MS. CRUZ: SOUNDS GOOD.

MR. FLOOD: I'M NOT -- THERE'S JUST A COUPLE OF OTHER

QUESTIONS, AND -- AND JUST, SO -- ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW WHAT? THAT'S ALL I

HAVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. MCGOWAN.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. MCGOWAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ?

MS. CRUZ: SURE THING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SHE YIELDS.

MR. MCGOWAN: THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ. I WANT TO

START, AND -- AND I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THE POINT THAT YOU MADE. SO,

EVIDENCE OF A PRIOR CONVICTION, EVEN IF SEALED, CAN STILL BE USED BY LAW

ENFORCEMENT OR PROSECUTORS IF AN ELEMENT OF A CRIME TO ELEVATE IT FROM,

LET'S SAY, A MISDEMEANOR TO A FELONY, OR AS PART OF THE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS

FOR A NEW CRIME, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: YEAH, IF IT'S FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT

PURPOSES, IT'S NOT JUST LIMITED TO -- IF IT'S FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT PURPOSES,

IT'S NOT JUST LIMITED TO THE TWO INSTANCES IN WHICH YOU MENTIONED. YOU

CAN USE IT AS -- THROUGH -- AS PART OF YOUR INVESTIGATION. WE HAVE MADE

-- YEAH, AS PART OF SENTENCING --

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: -- AS PART OF CHARGING.

MR. MCGOWAN: UNDERSTOOD. SO NO ISSUES WITH

SENTENCING OR AS AN ELEMENT TO A CRIME THAT WOULD ELEVATE A

LOWER-LEVEL OFFENSE TO A HIGHER- LEVEL OFFENSE --

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: -- BASED UPON A PRIOR CONVICTION,

CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. WHAT ABOUT A NEW CHARGE,

RIGHT? THE DEFENDANT IS ON TRIAL, THE DEFENDANT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY

CONVICTED, THAT PRIOR CONVICTION IS SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC SEALING AND

THAT DEFENDANT ELECTS TO TESTIFY IN HIS OR HER OWN DEFENSE AT THAT NEW

TRIAL. CAN THE PROSECUTION CROSS-EXAMINE THE DEFENDANT ON A PRIOR

CONVICTION THAT HAS BEEN SEALED?

MS. CRUZ: YEAH.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO THERE'S NO PROHIBITION,

ASSUMING A SANDOVAL HEARING IS DONE, A VENTIMIGLIA HEARING IS DONE,

NO ISSUE WITH EXAMINATION OF --

MS. CRUZ: NO ISSUE.

MR. MCGOWAN: -- OF A CRIMINAL DEFENDANT. WHAT

ABOUT SOMEONE TESTIFYING AS A WITNESS IN A PROCEEDING WHERE THEIR

PRIOR RECORD WAS SEALED? THEY'RE NOT A DEFENDANT, BUT THEY'RE A

WITNESS, AND THE PROSECUTOR HAS INFORMATION ABOUT THAT PRIOR --

MS. CRUZ: THEY WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS IT AS

WELL.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. AND -- AND THERE'S NO

PROHIBITION ON EXAMINING THE WITNESS WHO HAS A PRIOR CONVICTION THAT

WAS SEALED AND TESTIFYING IN OPEN COURT, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: IF IT'S BEING USED FOR THE PURPOSES OF LAW

ENFORCEMENT. IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD BE IN THE COURT FOR A CASE, THEN

THEY WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO IT. THERE'S NO PROHIBITION.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. IF THE EXAMINATION AND --

AND INQUIRY OF THE WITNESS WHO IS -- WHO HAS A PRIOR CONVICTION THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WAS SEALED IS FOR CREDIBILITY PURPOSES, IT'S NOT AN ELEMENT OF A CRIME,

IT'S BEING ASKED TO UNDERMINE THE WITNESS' CREDIBILITY BEFORE THE FINDER

OF FACT. IS THERE ANY PROHIBITION ON THE EXAMINATION AND ASKING ABOUT

A PRIOR PREVIOUSLY-SEALED CONVICTION?

MS. CRUZ: THERE ISN'T. AND TO MAKE SURE THAT WE

HAVE IT ON THE RECORD, I'D LIKE TO READ THAT SPECIFIC SECTION FOR YOU.

MR. MCGOWAN: PLEASE DO.

MS. CRUZ: THE COURT, THE PROSECUTOR, THE DEFENSE

COUNSEL, IF THE DEFENDANT BECOMES A WITNESS IN A CRIMINAL PROCEEDING

ARE THE FOLKS WHERE -- THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO ACCESS THAT INFORMATION.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. EVEN IF THAT, AGAIN, FOR --

JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, IS FOR CREDIBILITY PURPOSES OF THAT WITNESS.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT. YOU STILL HAVE TO STICK TO

THE RULES OF EVIDENCE, ET CETERA, ET CETERA --

MR. MCGOWAN: UNDERSTOOD.

MS. CRUZ: -- BUT YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: WHAT ABOUT IN A CIVIL CASE?

MS. CRUZ: THE COURT AND THE PARTIES, IF THE

DEFENDANT BECOMES A WITNESS OR A PARTY IN A CIVIL PROCEEDING, WOULD

HAVE ACCESS TO THAT INFORMATION.

MR. MCGOWAN: AGAIN, MY SAME -- SAME

QUESTION, ACCESS TO IT, BUT CAN THAT PERSON WHO IS EITHER A PARTY OR A

WITNESS IN A CIVIL PROCEEDING WHO HAS A PREVIOUSLY-SEALED CONVICTION

CAN BE EXAMINED AND THAT -- THAT EVIDENCE CAN COME INTO THE RECORD FOR

CREDIBILITY PURPOSES OR ANY OTHER PURPOSES --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: -- AS LONG AS IT'S GERMANE TO THAT

PROCEEDING, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. JUST AGAIN, TO CLARIFY, NOT

ONLY PERHAPS ON AN ELEMENT OF A CRIME, BUT GENERALLY, AS YOU KNOW, IN

NEW YORK, PRIOR CONVICTIONS ARE GENERALLY NOT -- CANNOT BE USED AS AN

ELEMENT OR TO PROVE GUILT IN A NEW CASE. BUT UNDER THE MOLINEUX

EXCEPTION THERE ARE TIMES WHEN PROSECUTION CAN EXAMINE A WITNESS

AND ACTUALLY INTRODUCE EVIDENCE OF A PRIOR CRIMINAL ACT. UNDER A

MOLINEUX EXCEPTION, NOT AS AN ELEMENT TO ELEVATE A CRIME. UNDER THE

MOLINEUX EXCEPTION IN NEW YORK, CAN PROSECUTION USE A DEFENDANT'S

PREVIOUSLY-SEALED CONVICTION IN THAT INSTANCE?

MS. CRUZ: THEY CAN.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. I WANT TO ASK YOU NOW

ABOUT THE OFFENSES, RIGHT? IT'S -- THE ONLY VIOLATION THAT IS SUBJECT TO

THIS AUTOMATIC SEALING IS VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW SECTION 1192.1,

DRIVING WHILE ABILITY IMPAIRED, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: CAN YOU REPEAT THAT QUESTION? I'M SORRY.

MR. MCGOWAN: THE ONLY VIOLATION-LEVEL OFFENSE

THAT IS SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC SEALING WOULD BE DWAI UNDER VEHICLE AND

TRAFFIC LAW SECTION 1192.1.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. AND THEN MISDEMEANORS

AND CERTAIN FELONIES, CORRECT?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: BUT AMONG THOSE MISDEMEANORS

AND FELONIES, CERTAIN OF THOSE OFFENSES ARE EXCLUDED. FOR INSTANCE, ANY

A FELONY, RIGHT?

MS. CRUZ: ANY A NON-DRUG FELONIES.

MR. MCGOWAN: ANY A NON-DRUG FELONIES. OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: AS WELL AS CRIMES UNDER ARTICLE

130 OF THE PENAL LAW, SEX OFFENSES THAT ARE ALSO -- I KNOW IN THE BILL IT

CROSS-REFERENCES TO CORRECTION LAW SECTION 168, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: YES. THE ONES THAT ARE REQUIRED SEX

OFFENDER REGISTRY, YES.

MR. MCGOWAN: RIGHT. SO ANY SORA-ELIGIBLE

OFFENSE, RIGHT, THE SEX OFFENDER REGISTRATION ACT, WOULD NOT BE SUBJECT

-- OR A DEFENDANT WITH A PRIOR CONVICTION UNDER A SORA-ELIGIBLE

OFFENSE COULD NOT RECEIVE THIS AUTOMATIC SEALING, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: AND THAT ARE BOTH FELONIES AND

MISDEMEANORS, RIGHT?

MS. CRUZ: SAY THAT -- THAT --

MR. MCGOWAN: THOSE SORA-ELIGIBLE OFFENSES

INCLUDE BOTH FELONY --

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: -- AS WELL AS MISDEMEANORS.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. MCGOWAN: INCLUDING B FELONIES, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. BUT ASIDE FROM THOSE

THERE, EVERYTHING ELSE IS ESSENTIALLY FAIR GAME. IF YOU HAVE A

CONVICTION THAT DOES NOT FALL WITHIN THAT LIMITED SCOPE OF EXCLUDED

OFFENSES, YOU ARE -- COULD BENEFIT FROM AUTOMATIC SEALING UPON THE

PASSAGE OF TIME, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: UPON THE PASSAGE OF TIME WHERE YOU

HAVE NOT RECOMMITTED A CRIME OR HAVE A PENDING CHARGE, THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO ATTEMPTED MURDER IN

THE 2ND DEGREE, RIGHT, INTENTIONAL MURDER, THAT IS A CLASS A FELONY,

CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: BUT ATTEMPTED MURDER, RIGHT,

GETS REDUCED. ANY ATTEMPT COMES DOWN ONE DEGREE, SO THAT WOULD BE

A CLASS B FELONY, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

WE'RE GONNA DOUBLE-CHECK TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S AN --

IT'S NOT AN A.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO I'LL MOVE ON TO ANOTHER

ONE THAT I KNOW IS A B, MANSLAUGHTER, RIGHT? THAT'S CAUSING THE DEATH

OF ANOTHER PERSON, BUT NOT WITH INTENT. THAT'S A CLASS B FELONY,

CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT IS, YES.

MR. MCGOWAN: AND THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AUTOMATIC SEALING UPON THE PASSAGE OF TIME AND THE OTHER CONDITIONS

THAT MUST BE MET, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: YES, INCLUDING -- YES, SORRY.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: MY BRAIN BLANKED FOR A SECOND THERE.

MR. MCGOWAN: IN ADDITION TO MANSLAUGHTER IN

THE 1ST DEGREE, THERE'S AGGRAVATED MANSLAUGHTER WHERE SOMEBODY

CAUSES THE DEATH OF A POLICE OFFICER, WHICH IS ALSO A CLASS B FELONY.

THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC SEALING, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: AFTER THEY'VE GOTTEN OUT OF JAIL, AFTER

THEY'VE DONE PROBATION AND DEMONSTRATED ALL OF THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS,

THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: SO JUST TO MAKE OUR DISCUSSION A

LITTLE BIT MORE STREAMLINED, I'M GOING TO ASSUME ALL THOSE THINGS, RIGHT,

BUT I HAVE A COUPLE OF OTHER OFFENSES I WANT TO CONFIRM WITH YOU. SO

AGAIN, ASSUMING THE DEFENDANT DOES ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT HE OR SHE

IS SUPPOSED TO DO, LIKE NOT COMMIT ANOTHER OFFENSE AND BE RELEASED

FROM PRISON OR SERVE THEIR SENTENCE, A PERSON WHO'S CONVICTED OF

AGGRAVATED MANSLAUGHTER IN THE 1ST DEGREE, KILLING A POLICE OFFICER,

ALTHOUGH NON-INTENTIONALLY, WOULD BE SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC SEALING,

CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: WHAT ABOUT STRANGULATION IN THE

1ST DEGREE, A CLASS C FELONY? THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC

SEALING?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. MCGOWAN: CRIMINAL OBSTRUCTION OF

BREATHING OR BLOOD CIRCULATION, AN A MISDEMEANOR. THAT WOULD BE

SUBJECT --

MS. CRUZ: HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

MR. MCGOWAN: -- TO AUTOMATIC SEALING, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. MCGOWAN: ROBBERY IN THE 1ST DEGREE, 2ND

DEGREE, 3RD DEGREE, ANY ROBBERY OFFENSE. SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC

SEALING?

MS. CRUZ: YES. IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO THROUGH EVERY

SINGLE ONE, I'M HAPPY TO DO SO.

MR. MCGOWAN: WELL, WE'D BE HERE AWHILE AND I

DON'T NEED TO DO THAT, I JUST HAVE A FEW MORE. WHAT ABOUT ENDANGERING

THE WELFARE OF A CHILD, A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR. THAT WOULD ALSO BE

SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC SEALING, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. IF A DEFENDANT IS NOT

SENTENCED TO APPEAR (INAUDIBLE) INCARCERATION OR PROBATION BUT MERELY

SENTENCED TO A CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE, SO LET'S SAY FOR A PERIOD OF ONE

YEAR, WHEN DOES THE TIME BEGIN? IS IT UPON SENTENCE OR UPON

COMPLETION OF THAT ONE-YEAR CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE, ASSUMING THE

DEFENDANT REMAINS ARREST-FREE AND OTHERWISE COMPLIES WITH ANY ORDERS

OF THE COURT REQUIRED TO DO UNDER THAT CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE PERIOD?

MS. CRUZ: LET ME MAKE SURE I GIVE YOU THE CORRECT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ANSWER.

MR. MCGOWAN: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

MS. CRUZ: SO CAN YOU REPEAT YOUR QUESTION?

MR. MCGOWAN: SURE. IF A DEFENDANT IS SENTENCED

TO A -- A SENTENCE OF A CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE, LET'S SAY FOR ONE YEAR,

WHEN DOES THE -- THE -- I GUESS THE PERIOD BEGIN, UPON SENTENCING OR

UPON THE EXPIRATION OF THAT ONE-YEAR CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE?

MS. CRUZ: UPON SENTENCING.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO AS THE SPONSOR OF THIS

BILL THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY A DECISION, RIGHT, TO EXCLUDE CERTAIN OFFENSES

BUT NOT OTHERS FOR THE AUTOMATIC SEALING PROVISION, RIGHT?

MS. CRUZ: IT WAS -- I WOULD CALL IT A GROUP EFFORT,

BUT YES.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. BUT ULTIMATELY THERE WAS A

DECISION TO SAY, ALL RIGHT, ANYTHING THAT'S SORA-ELIGIBLE, NOT SUBJECT TO

AUTOMATIC SEALING, ANY A FELONY EXCEPT FOR DRUG OFFENSES, NOT SUBJECT

TO AUTOMATIC SEALING, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: YES, ARGUABLY.

MR. MCGOWAN: BUT YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ME,

SOME OF THESE OFFENSES -- OFFENSES THAT I'VE MENTIONED, INCLUDING

OFFENSES WHERE A DEFENDANT CAN BE CONVICTED OF CAUSING THE DEATH OF

ANOTHER PERSON, INCLUDING A POLICE OFFICER, YOU, OR YOU SAID

COLLECTIVELY, THE DECISION WAS MADE TO NOT HAVE THAT BE AN EXCEPTION TO

ALLOW FOR AUTOMATIC SEALING WHEN SOMEBODY CAUSES THE DEATH OF

ANOTHER PERSON AND IS RIGHTFULLY CONVICTED, CORRECT?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: I WILL SAY THE -- THE POINT WHERE I THINK

YOU'RE GOING IS NOT ONE THAT, INCREDIBLY, WAS BROUGHT UP DURING OUR

CONVERSATIONS WITH THE NYPD ITSELF OR EVEN WITH THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. WELL, I WASN'T ASKED AND

I'M NOT A MEMBER OF -- OF THE NYPD, AND I'M A FORMER PROSECUTOR, NO

LONGER CURRENT PROSECUTOR, OBVIOUSLY. BUT THAT'S MY -- THAT'S WHERE I'M

TRYING TO GET AT. THERE WAS A CONSCIOUS DECISION TO EXCLUDE CERTAIN

OFFENSES BUT NOT OTHERS, AND THOSE THAT ARE ACTUALLY INCLUDED IN THE

AUTOMATIC SEALING INCLUDE ACTS OF VIOLENCE, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THERE WAS A CONVERSATION WITH MANY

STAKEHOLDERS THAT LED US TO THE BILL THAT WE HAVE TODAY.

MR. MCGOWAN: I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT, AND I'M

GLAD TO HEAR THERE WAS A PROCESS AND I ASSUME THERE WOULD BE FOR

LEGISLATION LIKE THIS. BUT ULTIMATELY, THE DECISION WAS MADE TO ALLOW

OFFENSES WHERE A DEFENDANT IS LEGALLY CONVICTED OF CAUSING THE DEATH OF

ANOTHER PERSON TO BE SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC SEALING, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: AGAIN, THERE WAS A CONVERSATION. I

BELIEVE I'VE ALREADY ANSWERED THIS QUESTION IN THE WAY THAT I FEEL IT'S

APPROPRIATE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. SO THAT'S NOT REALLY

ANSWERING MY QUESTION, BUT NO PROBLEM. I'LL MOVE ON.

MS. CRUZ: WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE.

MR. MCGOWAN: OKAY. I DON'T HAVE ANY FURTHER

QUESTIONS FOR THE SPONSOR. THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ, I APPRECIATE IT.

ON THE BILL, SIR.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MCGOWAN: I -- I REALLY -- I -- I WANT TO

SUPPORT THE IDEA THAT -- AND I DO SUPPORT THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE

SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARILY DEFINED BY A MISTAKE, BY AN INDISCRETION, AND

SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A FULL AND FREE LIFE AND BE A

PRODUCTIVE AND CONTRIBUTING MEMBER OF OUR SOCIETY. THAT IS AS

FOUNDATIONAL IN OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AS ANYTHING ELSE. BUT I FEEL

THAT ONCE AGAIN HERE IN THIS CHAMBER, THIS BODY IS PRESENTED WITH

LEGISLATION THAT DOESN'T DO THAT. IT GOES WAY BEYOND GIVING SOMEONE A

CHANCE TO MOVE FORWARD FROM A PAST MISTAKE. WE HAVE BEFORE US

LEGISLATION THAT CALLS FOR AN AUTOMATIC SEALING, AUTOMATIC SEALING

REQUIRING THAT THE DEFENDANT WHO WAS LEGALLY CONVICTED DO A FEW

THINGS; ONE, COMPLETE HIS OR HER SENTENCE. AS WE'VE HEARD THIS

MORNING, PAY THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY. BUT UPON COMPLETING WHATEVER

SENTENCE THAT PERSON RECEIVED, THE PERSON MERELY HAS TO NOT COMMIT

OTHER CRIMES, NOT HAVE A PENDING CHARGE, NOT GET CONVICTED. IN OTHER

WORDS, THE DEFENDANT HAS TO DO WHAT WE ALL SHOULD BE DOING, WHICH IS

NOT COMMITTING CRIMES. YOU CAN LITERALLY CAUSE THE DEATH OF ANOTHER

PERSON, INCLUDING A POLICE OFFICER, SERVE YOUR SENTENCE AND THEN SIT

BACK AND WAIT AND YOUR CASE, YOUR CONVICTION WILL BE SEALED, NOT

AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC VIEW, EXCEPT IN VERY LIMITED SITUATIONS.

THERE IS NO APPLICATION REQUIRED BY THE DEFENDANT.

THERE'S NO ONUS PUT ON THE PERSON. I HEARD THIS MORNING THAT WELL, IT'S

THE -- THE STATE'S GONNA DO THAT, NOW IT'S THE DUTY OF THE STATE. WE ARE

GOING TO DO THAT FOR THE PERSON. VIOLENT FELONIES INCLUDING DOMESTIC

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

VIOLENCE OFFENSES, ENDANGERING THE WELFARE OF A CHILD. AS A FORMER

SPECIAL VICTIMS PROSECUTOR, I REALLY CAN'T GET PAST THAT. ENDANGERING

THE WELFARE OF A CHILD IS A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR. A PERSON

KNOWINGLY ACTS IN A MANNER LIKELY TO BE INJURIOUS TO THE PHYSICAL,

MORAL OR MENTAL WELL-BEING OF A CHILD LESS THAN 17 YEARS OLD. THAT

COVERS A LOT OF BAD THINGS AND THAT PROTECTS KIDS, BUT WE'RE GOING TO

SEAL IT. THAT'S A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR, WAIT YOUR THREE YEARS, IT'S LIKE IT

NEVER HAPPENED.

AGAIN, THERE ARE THINGS ABOUT THIS CONCEPTUALLY I

WANTED TO SUPPORT. I DO SUPPORT SECOND CHANCES, BUT THIS GOES WAY TOO

FAR. BECAUSE OUR VICTIMS, OUR CRIME VICTIMS, OUR KIDS WHO ARE ABUSED,

WHO ARE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED. BECAUSE WHILE THIS LEGISLATION EXCLUDES

SORA-ELIGIBLE OFFENSES, IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEBODY COULD ACT IN A

SEXUALLY-INAPPROPRIATE MANNER AND BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME THAT DOES

NOT RESULT IN A SORA-ELIGIBLE OFFENSE; FOR INSTANCE, ENDANGERING THE

WELFARE OF A CHILD. I KNOW BECAUSE I'VE PROSECUTED THOSE CASES. BUT

WHAT WE'RE SAYING, THE MESSAGE THAT WE'RE SENDING IS, WELL, WE DON'T

REALLY CARE. THE PASSAGE OF TIME, THAT'S ENOUGH, THAT'S ALL WE NEED.

OUR VICTIMS DON'T GET A SECOND CHANCE. SOMEONE WHO'S A ROBBERY

VICTIM, A BURGLARY VICTIM, WILL LIVE WITH THAT FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

THERE IS NO CLEAN SLATE FOR OUR VICTIMS. BUT OUR CRIMINALS? SURE, JUST

DON'T DO IT AGAIN. TIME GOES BY, DON'T DO IT AGAIN AND WE'RE GONNA SEAL

YOUR RECORD. WHAT MESSAGE ARE WE SENDING IN THIS STATE? IT'S THE

WRONG MESSAGE IS THE ANSWER. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY.

THIS COULD HAVE BEEN FASHIONED IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS SOMEBODY WHO IS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

EARNEST, WHO IS HONEST, WHO WANTS TO GET THEIR LIFE BACK ON TRACK, TO DO

IT. WE COULD FIND OTHER WAYS. IF THE PROCESS IS TOO DIFFICULT, LET'S WORK

ON THAT, LET'S EASE THEIR BURDEN, LET'S LOOK FOR DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES,

LET'S COLLABORATE. BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN HERE. THIS IS A LOT EASIER,

PROBABLY. JUST AUTOMATICALLY SEAL. AUTOMATICALLY SEAL, BUT NOT FOR OUR

VICTIMS. WE CONTINUE, AGAIN, TO PUT THE INTERESTS OF CRIMINALS ABOVE

RESIDENTS, ABOVE SAFETY, ABOVE OUR VICTIMS.

I'M HONESTLY DISGUSTED BY THIS BILL AND I WILL BE VOTING

IN THE NEGATIVE AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. LAVINE.

MR. LAVINE: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. LAVINE: THANK YOU. SO MS. CRUZ, I KNOW

YOU'VE PUT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK, COLLABORATIVE WORK, INTO --

INTO THIS BILL, AND YOU'VE CONSULTED WITH EVERYONE TO MAKE IT A MUCH,

MUCH BETTER BILL THAN IT WAS ORIGINALLY. SO, YOU KNOW THAT I WAS ONCE A

PUBLIC DEFENDER IN -- IN NEW YORK CITY A LONG TIME AGO?

MS. CRUZ: YES, WE'VE COMMENSURATED STORIES.

MR. LAVINE: YES. AND FOR MANY YEARS I

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

REPRESENTED PEOPLE, INNOCENT PEOPLE AND GUILTY PEOPLE, IN CONNECTION

WITH -- WITH CRIMINAL CASES. AND YOU KNOW THAT I HAVE LISTENED TO MY

COLLEAGUES WHO ARE FORMER PROSECUTORS, AND I HAVE A LOT OF ADMIRATION

FOR WHAT THEM FOR WHAT THEY DO FOR OUR COMMUNITY. BUT YOU KNOW AS

WELL THAT OVER THE YEARS, I HAD MORE CONVICTIONS THAN ALL OF THEM PUT

TOGETHER. SO I HAVE A RATHER UNIQUE TAKE ON THIS -- THE EXPERIENCE OF

THIS BILL.

NOW, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT NO ONE IS TREATED

WHO HAS A CONVICTION DIFFERENTLY. IN FACT, EVERYONE WHO HAS GOT

CONVICTIONS EXCEPT FOR THOSE THAT ARE EXCLUDED IS SUBJECT TO THE SAME

SET OF REGULATIONS AND RULES HERE.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT. WE HAVEN'T MADE SOME

SORT OF SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS FOR THEM.

MR. LAVINE: AND IF I UNDERSTAND, ANYONE

CONVICTED OF A MISDEMEANOR HAS TO COMPLETE WHATEVER SENTENCE THEY

GET AND THEN WAIT -- AND THEN IT'S A THREE-YEAR PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE

THEY ARE ELIGIBLE TO HAVE THEIR RECORD SEALED, WHICH -- WHICH I THINK IS

REASONABLE AND -- AND RATIONAL. AND ON A FELONY IT WOULD BE

EIGHT YEARS. AND TO BE SURE, MANY OF THE FELONIES AND EVEN SOME OF

THE MISDEMEANORS ARE -- ARE -- ARE TROUBLING, THEY ARE. BUT WOULD YOU

AGREE WITH ME THAT REDEMPTION IS NOT ONLY AN IMPORTANT THEOLOGICAL

CONCEPT, BUT IT IS AN IMPORTANT CONCEPT FOR US AS A COMMUNITY TO BE

ABLE TO BRING EVERYONE IN THE COMMUNITY TOGETHER, WHETHER THEY WERE

VICTIMS OR WHETHER THEY COMMITTED CRIMES? REDEMPTION IS IMPORTANT,

IS IT NOT?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

MR. LAVINE: AND AT THE HEART AND SOUL OF THIS

PARTICULAR PROPOSITION THAT WE'RE DEBATING TODAY IS THE PROPOSITION OF

REDEMPTION.

MS. CRUZ: IT -- IT ABSOLUTELY IS. AND -- AND IF I MAY

ADD, I THINK ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS TO NOTE IS, YOU KNOW, MANY OF

THESE MORE TROUBLING, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, CRIMES THAT FOLKS WHO

OPPOSE IT HAVE CHOSEN TO ENUMERATE, THEY CARRY VERY, VERY LONG

SENTENCES. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE WHO GOES AWAY FOR THREE

YEARS, COMES OUT AND EIGHT YEARS LATER THEY COULD ACTUALLY ACCESS THIS.

WE ARE TALKING PEOPLE WHO GO IN FOR PERHAPS 20 YEARS, COME OUT,

MAYBE HAVE ANOTHER FIVE, EIGHT YEARS OF PROBATION, AND THEN THEY CAN

ACCESS THE SEALING. AND SO WE BELIEVE IN PEOPLE. WE BELIEVE THAT

PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE. WE BELIEVE THAT GOVERNMENT SHOULD

RECOGNIZE THAT POWER TO CHANGE.

MR. LAVINE: THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ANGELINO.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

THROUGH YOU, WILL YOU ASK THE SPEAKER TO YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU. YOU'VE BEEN SPENDING A LOT

OF TIME IN THE SENATE, I SEE.

(LAUGHTER)

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. ANGELINO: I WAS THERE YESTERDAY; THEY'RE --

THEY'RE VERY FAST. ALSO, SPEAKING OF VERY FAST, IN THE SPIRIT OF

EFFICIENCY, SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE COLLABORATIVE FROM THE ROW JUST

TO SAVE SOME TIME. I UNDERSTAND WE'RE IN A C-PRINT ON THIS PARTICULAR

BILL, AND WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT IT IN PAST VERSIONS, I NOTICED THE MOST

THING THAT STICKS OUT TO ME IS THE -- THE YEARS GOING FROM EIGHT -- TO

EIGHT FROM SEVEN. WAS THERE SOME SORT OF METRIC THAT CAUSED THAT?

MS. CRUZ: SO ORIGINALLY IT HAD BEEN SEVEN BECAUSE

RESEARCH ACTUALLY, AND SCIENCE, THERE'S BEEN PLENTY OF RESEARCH THAT

SHOWS THAT PAST SEVEN YEARS SOMEONE WHO'S COMMITTED A FELONY IS AS

LIKELY TO RECOMMIT A FELONY AS ANY OF US WHO HAVEN'T COMMITTED A

CRIME. AS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CONCESSIONS THAT SOMETIMES HAVE TO BE

MADE WHEN CREATING LEGISLATION, SO WE ENDED UP AT EIGHT INSTEAD OF

SEVEN.

MR. ANGELINO: SO -- SO SEVEN WAS THE -- THE

MAGIC SPOT AND THEN YOU JUST --

MS. CRUZ: NO. WELL, SEVEN WAS THE ORIGINAL.

MR. ANGELINO: RIGHT.

MS. CRUZ: EIGHT IS THE MAGIC SPOT.

MR. ANGELINO: YEAH, SO YOU WENT FROM SEVEN

THINKING THAT WAS THE METRIC SO WE'LL GO TO EIGHT JUST TO ENSURE.

MS. CRUZ: YEAH.

MR. ANGELINO: CAN THE SEALING RECORDS - AND I

LISTENED INTENTLY BUT I MAY HAVE BEEN DISTRACTED - BUT IF THIS WAS ASKED

I APOLOGIZE, BUT CAN A PROBATION DEPARTMENT STILL USE PAST CONVICTIONS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

IN A PRESENTENCE REPORT TO A JUDGE IN A COURT?

MS. CRUZ: YES, THEY CAN. THEY CAN ACCESS THE

INFORMATION AND USE IT AS -- AS THEY WOULD FOR THE PURPOSES OF THEIR LAW

ENFORCEMENT RELATED JOB.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY, BECAUSE I WAS KEYING IN ON

LAW ENFORCEMENT AND I THOUGHT THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN MORE JUDICIARY

THAN -- THAN EXECUTIVE BRANCH BUT THANK YOU.

AND, YOU KNOW, A LONG TIME AGO IN THE CLINTON ERA

THERE WAS A 1994 PUBLIC HOUSING ACT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT STILL EXISTS,

BUT THAT PRECLUDED A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM GETTING -- BEING ABLE TO LIVE IN

PUBLIC HOUSING IF THEY HAD A PAST CONVICTION. DO WE KNOW IF THAT STILL

EXISTS AND IS THAT GOING TO IMPACT THIS?

MS. CRUZ: UNFORTUNATELY IT STILL EXISTS AND

UNFORTUNATELY THIS WILL HAVE NO IMPACT ON THAT BECAUSE THAT IS FEDERAL

REGULATION.

MR. ANGELINO: SO AND HOW DOES -- HOW DOES A

LANDLORD GO ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IN A -- PUBLIC HOUSING? HOW DO THEY GO

ABOUT? CAN THEY ASK THAT IF YOU HAVE A FEDERAL CONVICTION?

MS. CRUZ: IF I KNEW HOW NYCHA DID WHAT IT DOES,

WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE A BETTER SYSTEM, BUT I VENTURE TO SAY THERE'S AN

APPLICATION PROCESS AND IF YOU HOLD THAT THOUGHT I HAVE A COLLEAGUE

WHO ACTUALLY REPRESENTS NYCHA, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I PUT IT ON

THE RECORD AND GIVE YOU THE CORRECT ANSWER.

MR. ANGELINO: I'LL WAIT.

(PAUSE)

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: SO THERE IS AN APPLICATION PROCESS AND

THEY DO ASK YOU IF -- IF YOU HAVE A PAST CONVICTION.

MR. ANGELINO: AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO GET

ANYBODY INTO TROUBLE FOR ASKING FOR PUBLIC HOUSING --

MS. CRUZ: WELL, (INAUDIBLE) THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT. WE HAVE CREATED IN THE LANGUAGE ACTUALLY SPECIFIC

SECTION THAT SAYS WHO'S EXEMPTED AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS PART

OF THAT.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU. BUT EMPLOYERS ARE

NOT ALLOWED TO ASK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER, WHY DO

YOU RISE?

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL MR.

ANGELINO PAUSE FOR A POINT OF CLARIFICATION WITH RESPECT TO HIS

QUESTIONS ON NYCHA?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ANGELINO?

MR. ANGELINO: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ANGELINO YIELDS.

MS. WALKER: WELL, I JUST WANT TO ALSO

CONGRATULATE THE SPONSOR ON DOING A GREAT JOB. BUT MR. ANGELINO THE

RESTRICTION WITH RESPECT TO NYCHA ARE ONLY WITH RESPECT TO CRIMES

WHICH ARE COMMITTED ON NYCHA GROUNDS; HOWEVER, SINCE MAYBE

ABOUT 2014 OR '15, ARE YOU AWARE THAT NYCHA HAS BEEN PILOTING A

PROJECT WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN ALLOWING PEOPLE WHO HAVE PREVIOUS

CONVICTIONS ON NYCHA GROUNDS TO BE ABLE TO OBTAIN AN APARTMENT AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TENANCY WITHIN NYCHA DEVELOPMENTS?

MR. ANGELINO: I DO NOT. BUT NYCHA IS ONE CITY

AND I HAVE PUBLIC HOUSING IN THE CITY OF NORWICH AND ALSO ALL OVER MY

DISTRICT. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT -- I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT IF THE 1994

PROHIBITION ON PUBLIC HOUSING STILL EXISTS AND --

MS. WALKER: WELL, IN ADDITION TO THAT, MR.

ANGELINO, NYCHA DID NOT SORT OF COME UP WITH THE IDEA WITH RESPECT

TO THIS PILOT PROJECT. ARE YOU AWARE THAT ALSO IN THE CITY OF SYRACUSE

THERE ARE ALSO SIMILAR TENANCY PILOT PROJECTS FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE

PREVIOUSLY CONVICTED OF A CRIME ON PUBLIC HOUSING GROUNDS WHICH ARE

NOW ALLOWED TO BE TENANTS WITHIN THE PUBLIC HOUSING CORPORATION IN THE

AREA BY WHICH THEY LIVE?

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO MOVE ON

FROM PUBLIC HOUSING.

MS WALKER: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PROCEED, MR.

ANGELINO.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. SO I

WAS GETTING READY TO SAY, AFTER WE FINISHED THAT CONVERSATION,

EMPLOYERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ASK ABOUT PREVIOUS CONVICTIONS.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. ANGELINO: BUT THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS.

MS. CRUZ: LET ME JUST MAKE SURE THAT I PUT IT AS

CLEAR.

(PAUSE)

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SO THEY -- THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN -- IN I GUESS IN HOW

YOU ASK, THEIR ABILITY TO ASK FOR FINGERPRINT VERSUS PUBLIC RECORDS, FOR

EXAMPLE. THEY CAN'T ASK FOR FINGERPRINT, THEY CAN ASK FOR PUBLIC

RECORDS WHEN IT COMES TO HAVE YOU BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME IN ALL,

BUT THE CITY OF NEW YORK, I THINK YOU CAN ASK THAT QUESTION, BUT I -- I

-- I WOULD -- I WOULD ARGUE THAT IF IT IS A JOB THAT IS WITHIN THE

EXEMPTIONS WE'VE CREATED, THEY'D STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THAT INFORMATION.

MR. ANGELINO: RIGHT. BUT AN EMPLOYER CAN - ON

AN APPLICATION - IT CAN STILL SAY IF YOU'RE GOING TO A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT,

HAVE YOU BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME, BECAUSE THAT'S STILL ALLOWED.

MS. CRUZ: YES, EXCEPT IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. AND HOW DOES -- IF

SOMEBODY HAS TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF THIS, THREE YEARS OR EIGHT YEARS DOWN

THE ROAD, HOW DO THEY ANSWER? DO THEY DECLINE TO ANSWER, DO THEY LIE

OR DO THEY SAY YES? WHAT WOULD YOU -- HOW DO -- HOW DO WE DO THIS?

MS. CRUZ: THEY'RE ALLOWED TO SAY NO FOR ALL SEALED

RECORDS.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY, THANK YOU. THE --

MS. CRUZ: CAN -- CAN I SAY SOMETHING, THOUGH --

MR. ANGELINO: YOU MAY, PLEASE.

MS. CRUZ: -- IN RESPONSE TO THAT? I MEAN, YOU

KNOW, WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER I WORKED IN -- IN A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT.

WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHOSE -- WHO HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO

DO THAT BECAUSE OF THEIR CRIMINAL RECORDS. I GET WHERE YOU'RE GOING

WITH IT, BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, IF FOLKS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ARE -- ARE -- ARE -- IF ALL THEY HAVE LEFT IS THE POSSIBILITY OF WORKING IN A

FAST FOOD EVEN THOUGH FOR MANY OF THESE FOLKS THEY MIGHT HAVE OTHER

CAREERS, THEY MIGHT HAVE DEGREES, THEY MIGHT HAVE LICENSES, BUT THINK

ABOUT THE FACT THAT THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE THAT THEY CAN WORK. WE WOULD

NOT WANT TO PERCLOSE [SIC] THEM FROM BEING ABLE TO MOVE FROM THAT TO

IMPROVING THEIR LIVES.

MR. ANGELINO: I KNOW BAN THE BOX WAS BIG A

FEW YEARS AGO AND I THOUGHT THAT HAD TAKEN OFF AND I'M SURPRISED --

MS. CRUZ: I WISH IT DID.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. SO THERE'S SOME EMPLOYERS

THAT ARE -- LIKE, I WILL SAY FOR HEALTHCARE, FOR INSTANCE. THOSE -- A LOT OF

THOSE EMPLOYEES ARE LICENSED AND THEY'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH THE

BACKGROUND PROCESS. BUT THERE'S ALSO PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR HEALTHCARE

FACILITIES THAT ARE IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH PATIENTS AND NARCOTICS WHO

MIGHT BE CUSTODIAL SERVICES. ARE THOSE PEOPLE GOING TO BE ASKED IF

THEY HAVE ANY PAST CONVICTIONS?

MS. CRUZ: THE STANDARD WE'VE SET UP IS REGULAR AND

SUBSTANTIAL CONTACT WITH THOSE VULNERABLE POPULATIONS.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY, BECAUSE THERE ARE SECTIONS

OF PENAL LAW THAT DEAL WITH ENDANGERING THE WELFARE OF INCOMPETENT OR

ELDERLY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

MS. CRUZ: YES. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE

FOLKS ARE STILL ABLE TO ACCESS.

MR. ANGELINO: A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE

COMING FROM CONSTITUENTS WHO HAVE HEARD ABOUT THIS OVER THE LAST

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WEEK.

MS. CRUZ: AND I APPRECIATE ANSWERING THEM.

MR. ANGELINO: HERE'S AN INTERESTING ONE, SCHOOLS.

WE ALL KNOW SCHOOLTEACHERS, BUS DRIVERS, PEOPLE LIKE THAT GO THROUGH A

BACKGROUND CHECK, BUT THAT'S ONLY FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS. WHAT ABOUT

PRIVATE SCHOOLS THAT ARE USUALLY CATHOLIC, BAPTIST, THINGS LIKE THAT?

MS. CRUZ: I WILL TELL YOU WE WORKED EVEN WITH THE

CATHOLIC CONFERENCE WHEN THEY RAISED THIS CONCERN TO MAKE SURE THAT

WE WERE CREATING THE EXCLUSIONS SO THAT PRIVATE SCHOOLS COULD HAVE THAT

INFORMATION.

MR. ANGELINO: DID THAT EXCLUDE? DID THAT

HAPPEN?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. ANGELINO: THEY'RE NOT HAPPY, THOUGH, SO I

DON'T KNOW.

MS. CRUZ: WELL, CAN'T MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY.

YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE YOU GIVE ME TEN -- TEN SUGGESTIONS DOESN'T

MEAN I GOTTA TAKE ALL TEN OF THEM.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. SO THIS IS VERY COMPLEX, SO

I'VE THOUGHT THIS THROUGH. I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH SEALING ORDERS IN THE

PAST AND WE'RE DEALING WITH A THREE-YEAR TIME AND A EIGHT-YEAR TIME. I

HAVE PRETTY GOOD CONFIDENCE IN COUNTY COURTS TALKING TO DCJS BECAUSE

THEY DO IT OFTEN. I DON'T HAVE SUCH CONFIDENCE WITH ALL THE TOWN AND

VILLAGE COURTS AND THE TURNOVER OF JUDGES AND CLERKS AND THINGS LIKE

THAT. IS THERE -- I GUESS HERE'S WHAT I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST OR ASK. WOULD IT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

BE POSSIBLE INSTEAD OF DOING THE ANNIVERSARY DATE OF THE INDIVIDUAL'S

CONVICTION TO DO IT THE YEAR END OF THE INDIVIDUAL'S CONVICTION SO THAT

THEY JUST WHOLESALE GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH AND SEAL ALL THE RECORDS?

MS. CRUZ: SO, I'LL START OFF BY SAYING WE EVEN SPOKE

TO SOME OF THOSE FOLKS. OUR -- OUR FORMER COLLEAGUE, JAMIE ROMEO,

WHO'S NOW WITH THE COUNTY CLERKS ASSOCIATION I BELIEVE IT'S CALLED,

RAISED SOME OF THESE CONCERNS BECAUSE THE WAY THAT MANY COUNTIES

KEEP THEIR RECORDS IS THROUGH THE COUNTY CLERKS AND IT'S A LOT MORE

CONVOLUTED, SOMETIMES IT'S IN SOME RANDOM BASEMENT IN BOXES, WE

WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT SETTING UP OUR SYSTEM FOR FAILURE.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE DONE IS SET UP THE

TIME OF EFFECTIVENESS TO JANUARY 2025 WHICH WILL GIVE US AN

OPPORTUNITY FOR NEXT YEAR TO PUT MONEY IN THE BUDGET FOR THE FOLKS WHO

NEED IT TO BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT IT.

MR. ANGELINO: YEAH. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT IT'D

BE GOOD TO PURGE A WHOLE YEAR'S WORTH INSTEAD OF HAVING THE

ANNIVERSARY DATES?

MS. CRUZ: I -- I WOULD NOT. THAT IS WHY WE ARE

SETTING UP AS A FOUR TIMES A YEAR CHECKUP FOR THE AGENCIES TO BE ABLE TO

DO IT. AND HAVING SAID -- UNDERSTANDING YOUR CONCERN AS WELL, IT'S ONE

OF THE REASONS WHY YOU'LL SEE IN THE LAW THAT SAYS WITHIN THREE YEARS OF

THE EFFECTIVE DATE WE WILL BEGIN -- WE WILL HAVE ALL OF THE RECORDS THAT

SO FAR NEED TO BE SEALED, SEALED. SO TO GIVE YOU THE MAP; JANUARY 2025

IS WHEN IT'LL BE EFFECTIVE. AND BEGINNING JANUARY 2025, PLUS THREE

YEARS, IS WHEN YOU'LL BEGIN TO SLOWLY SEE THESE RECORDS SEALED. AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AFTER THOSE THREE YEARS, EVERY FOUR -- EVERY THREE MONTHS, FOUR TIMES A

YEAR, YOU WILL SEE THE AGENCIES INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER FOR THIS

PURPOSE.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU. AND I'LL FINISH UP

WITH SOMEBODY VIOLATES THIS AND THEY GIVE OUT INFORMATION. WE'LL GO

WITH THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, INTENTIONALLY DO IT. WHAT IS THE PENALTY

AND WHO ENFORCES IT?

MS. CRUZ: IT DEPENDS ON WHO'S THE PERSON THAT

WOULD BE GIVING OUT THE INFORMATION OR VIOLATING THIS. IF IT'S SOMEONE

WHO HAS THE DUTY TO SEAL IT AND DUTY TO KEEP IT SEALED, WE HAVE SET UP A

-- A -- A SECTION THAT WOULD ALLOW THE INDIVIDUAL AGGRIEVE A PRIVATE

RIGHT OF ACTION, BUT THIS ISN'T JUST FOR ANYONE. IT'S FOR SPECIFIC PEOPLE

WHO HAVE A DUTY TO SEAL AND TO KEEP THE INFORMATION SEALED.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MS CRUZ: THANK YOU.

MR ANGELINO: MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MS. CRUZ: CAN I -- I --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. --

MS. CRUZ: -- I MISSPOKE ON SOMETHING, MR.

SPEAKER. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR FOR THE RECORD. IT'S ONE

YEAR EFFECTIVE DATE ON JANUARY 2025.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BURGOS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. BURGOS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. BURGOS: SO THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MORE

CONSEQUENTIAL BILLS WE'LL PASS IN THIS HOUSE THIS YEAR, AND I THINK IT'S

IMPORTANT TO CLARIFY WHAT THIS BILL IS AND WHAT IT ISN'T. THIS BILL IS AN

ECONOMIC BILL. FOR YEARS IN THIS STATE WE HAVE PROHIBITED AND PLACED

BARRIERS ON INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SERVED THEIR TIME AND HAVE TRIED TO

REENTER SOCIETY, HAVE TRIED TO GET GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT, HAVE TRIED TO

ACCESS HOUSING, HAVE TRIED TO FURTHER THEIR EDUCATION. THIS BILL IS ALSO A

RACIAL INJUSTICE BILL BECAUSE IT IS NOT A SECRET NOR A QUESTION THAT THE

MAJORITY OF INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE INCARCERATED IN THIS STATE ARE BLACK

AND LATINO INDIVIDUALS, MANY FROM A COMMUNITY JUST LIKE MINE. THIS

BILL IS ALSO A PUBLIC SAFETY BILL. SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES MAY DISAGREE,

BUT WHEN I MENTIONED BEFORE BEING AN ECONOMIC BILL, WHEN YOU GIVE

INDIVIDUALS A BRAND-NEW OPPORTUNITY TO ACCESS EMPLOYMENT THAT THEY

NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO ACCESS, WHEN YOU GIVE THEM AN ABILITY TO LIVE IN

COMMUNITIES THAT THEY POSSIBLY GREW UP IN OR TO LIVE IN SOME OF THE

MOST AFFORDABLE HOUSING WITHIN THE STATE, NYCHA BEING THAT

AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR WHEN YOU GIVE THEM AN ABILITY TO ACCESS

EDUCATION, TO GET A GED, TO GET A UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE, TO GET A

GRADUATE DEGREE, MAYBE EVEN GET A PHD, YOU GIVE THESE INDIVIDUALS A

BRAND-NEW OPPORTUNITY NEVER AFFORDED TO THEM UNTIL WE PASS THIS BILL.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS BILL IS NOT. THIS BILL IS NOT A

SOFT-ON-CRIME BILL. WHY IS THAT? BECAUSE AS THE SPONSOR HAS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MENTIONED TODAY, THIS BILL DOES NOT CHANGE THE PENALTY FOR CRIMES HERE

IN NEW YORK. IF YOU COMMIT MANSLAUGHTER, IF YOU COMMIT A ROBBERY,

IF YOU COMMIT ANY FELONY OR MISDEMEANOR THE CHARGES ARE STILL

APPLICABLE. YOU MAY STILL HAVE TO SERVE 15, 20, 25 YEARS WITHIN OUR

STATE PRISONS. IT IS NOT UNTIL YOU HAVE FINISHED YOUR SENTENCE AND THEN

THE ALLOTTED TIME AS THE BILL DESCRIBES THAT YOU AFFORDED THE ABILITY TO

SEAL THAT RECORD. THIS BILL DOES NOT PREVENT LAW ENFORCEMENT, CRIMINAL

COURTS AND OTHER RELEVANT AGENCIES FROM ACCESSING THESE RECORDS.

NOW IT'S BEEN MENTIONED TODAY THAT THERE IS ALREADY

AN ABILITY TO SEAL RECORDS HERE IN NEW YORK, AS THE LAW WE PASSED HERE

IN 2017. BUT IT'S ESTIMATED OVER 600,000 PEOPLE ARE ELIGIBLE UNDER THAT

LAW. AND DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF IT? ONLY

ABOUT 2,500. NOW WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? THE LAW IS INEFFECTIVE.

WE ARE NOT GIVING PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY WE INTENDED TO AND THAT IS

WHY A BILL LIKE THIS TODAY IS SO NECESSARY. I HAVE TO COMMEND THE CO --

I HAVE TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR. IN MY TIME HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY I

HAVE RARELY SEEN A BILL GO THROUGH SO MUCH DELIBERATION, SO MANY

SUPPORTERS, EVEN UNLIKELY SUPPORTERS, FROM BUSINESSES TO OTHER KINDS OF

EMPLOYERS, TO EDUCATION, TO LAW ENFORCEMENT ITSELF WHO REALIZE THAT

THIS BILL IS SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST A SEALING OF RECORDS.

NOW I WANT TO SHARE A STORY THAT PERTAINS TO THIS BILL IF

YOU BEAR WITH ME ONE SECOND.

(PAUSE)

SO WHEN WORKING WITH ADVOCATES AND INDIVIDUALS,

YOU KNOW, TO HELP MOVE THIS BILL FORWARD, THERE WAS A STORY SHARED

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WITH ME AND IT WAS A GENTLEMAN NAMED CHARLES WHO HAS BEEN OFF

PROBATION FOR A DECADE. HE'S A GRADUATE FROM BRYANT & STRATTON

COLLEGE WITH HIS ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE IN PARALEGAL STUDIES HOLDING A

GPA OF 3.82. HE GRADUATED WITH THE HIGHEST DISTINGUISHED SUMMA

CUM LAUDE. HE THEN WENT ON TO FINISH AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI

TO OBTAIN HIS BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN PARALEGAL STUDIES. CHARLES IS

CURRENTLY WORKING AS AN ON-CALL BUS DRIVER WHILE SEEKING TO SECURE

EMPLOYMENT AS A PARALEGAL. DESPITE GRADUATING SUMMA CUM LAUDE,

HE'S STILL FINDING DIFFICULTY SECURING EMPLOYMENT SIMPLY BECAUSE OF HIS

CONVICTION HISTORY FROM NEARLY A DECADE AGO DESPITE NOT REOFFENDING

AND DESPITE HIS GAINFUL EDUCATION.

I HAVE ONE MORE STORY TO SHARE, ONE A BIT MORE

PERSONAL TO ME. SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO IN THE YEAR 2006, MY FATHER WAS

ARRESTED. HE WAS ROUGHLY THE SAME AGE AS I AM TODAY. BEFORE EVEN

BEING CONVICTED, MY FATHER WAS FIRED FROM HIS JOB. HE WORKED FOR A

TELECOMMUNICATION COMPANY. IT WAS PRETTY GOOD JOB, PAID THE BILLS

WELL. WE LIVED IN A HOUSE, SUPPORTED THREE KIDS AND A WIFE. NOW

ULTIMATELY MY FATHER WAS CONVICTED OF HIS CRIME. I RECALL VIVIDLY

VISITING HIM ON RIKERS ISLAND. I RECALL HIS HAIR GETTING LONGER, HIS

WEIGHT GOING DOWN, ALMOST BECOMING UNRECOGNIZABLE TO ME. AT THAT

TIME I LIVED WITH MY MOTHER FOR OBVIOUS REASONS. AND I WANT TO SPEAK

OF THE BARRIERS HE ENDURED EVEN POST-CONVICTION. OBVIOUSLY, AS I

MENTIONED, HE WAS FIRED FROM HIS JOB EVEN BEFORE BEING CONVICTED, BUT

BECAUSE MY FATHER ONLY HAD A GED, COMING OUT AFTER HIS CONVICTION,

UNDERSTANDABLY, IT WAS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO GAIN EMPLOYMENT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

DESPITE EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE IN THE TELECOMMUNICATION INDUSTRY,

DESPITE A PRETTY SOLID NETWORK, DESPITE BEING AN INCREDIBLE HUMAN

BEING. HE ATTEMPTED TO EVEN OPEN A BUSINESS HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.

HE REACHED ANOTHER ROADBLOCK, WHY IS THAT? BECAUSE MANY OF OUR

LICENSES WILL DENY YOU BASED ON A CONVICTION RECORD. SEVENTEEN YEARS

LATER, NEVER COMMITTING A CRIME AGAIN, THANKFULLY THE STORY ENDS WITH A

HAPPY ENDING. MY FATHER NOW OWNS A TELECOMMUNICATION BUSINESS

BECAUSE HE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO CREATE ONE. HE HAD TO CREATE

EMPLOYMENT FOR HIMSELF BECAUSE THERE WAS NO OTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR

HIM. HE NOW HIRES OVER 35 EMPLOYEES SOME OF WHICH ARE FORMALLY

INCARCERATED. AND AS I MENTIONED, NEVER REOFFENDING. BUT BECAUSE OF

THAT CONVICTION, BECAUSE OF HIS EXPERIENCE HERE IN NEW YORK STATE,

BECAUSE OF THOSE BARRIERS HE FACED, HE HAD TO CHART A PATH THAT IS DAMN

NEAR IMPOSSIBLE. AND WHEN YOU HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE

HERE CONVICTED AND GIVEN THE SAME OBSTACLES, THE SAME BARRIERS, WE

CANNOT SERIOUSLY EXPECT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM TO COME OUT ON TOP.

SO THIS IS WHY THIS BILL, OF ALL BILLS, OF THOUSANDS OF BILLS THAT WE PUSH

THROUGH THIS HOUSE IS PROBABLY MOST MEANINGFUL TO ME BECAUSE I'VE

SEEN THE STORY OF MY FATHER, I OBVIOUSLY LIVED IT AND EXPERIENCED IT

FIRSTHAND. BUT I WANT TO SEE THAT STORY HAPPEN FOR SO MANY MORE NEW

YORKERS. I WANT SO MANY MORE INDIVIDUALS TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY

GIVEN TO THEM. I WANT IT TO BE SO MUCH EASIER FOR THEM IF THEY HAVE

TRULY RECONCILED, IF THEY HAVE TRULY PAID THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY AND THEY

TRULY WANT TO MOVE ON AND BE PART OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND OUR

COMMUNITIES AND CONTRIBUTE TO OUR ECONOMY AND PAY TAXES AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

EMPLOY OTHER PEOPLE THEN WE HAVE TO CREATE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES FOR

THEM. AND THAT'S WHY I'M SO PROUD TO BE A COSPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND

LOOKING FORWARD TO ITS PASSAGE. THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. SLATER.

MR. SLATER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ.

MS. CRUZ: SURE THING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ YIELDS.

MR. SLATER: THANK YOU, ASSEMBLYMEMBER CRUZ.

I APPRECIATE IT. I JUST WANTED TO GO BACK AND I THINK -- I DON'T MEAN TO

REPEAT SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN ASKED, BUT I JUST WANT

TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M CLEAR ON -- ON A FEW ITEMS. I THINK WE HAD

ACKNOWLEDGED, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAT THERE'S CURRENTLY A

PROCESS IN PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO SEAL CRIMINAL RECORDS. YES?

MS. CRUZ: YES. WE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IT'S NOT

EFFECTIVE.

MR. SLATER: IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE. BUT WE DO

ACKNOWLEDGE --

MS. CRUZ: WELL, IT'S NOT AS EASILY ACCESSIBLE IS THE

WORD I WOULD USE.

MR. SLATER: BUT WE DO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE

ARE INDIVIDUALS AND I'VE HEARD DIFFERENT STATS. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

NUMBER REALLY IS SINCE 2017?

MS. CRUZ: I -- I HEARD SOMETHING -- IT'S A SMALL

NUMBER, I THINK LIKE 2 PERCENT, MAYBE LESS THAN 2,000 PEOPLE.

MR. SLATER: AND YOU KNOW THAT DCJS TRACKS

THOSE NUMBERS?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR SLATER: GREAT. AND SO ACCORDING TO DCJS,

AND, AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT MAY NOT BE WHERE WE ALL MAY WANT IT,

BUT ACCORDING TO DCJS SINCE 2017, 3,882 HAVE SUCCESSFULLY GONE

THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

MS. CRUZ: AND THERE'S 2.3 MILLION WAITING.

MR. SLATER: UNDERSTOOD. MY QUESTION FOR YOU,

THOUGH, COMES TO THE LANGUAGE IN THE BILL, BECAUSE THE CURRENT SEALING

PROVISIONS ARE FOUND IN SECTION 160.59 OF THE CPL. AND ONE OF THE

THINGS THAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR

PROPOSAL OF THE AUTOMATIC SEALING OF CONVICTIONS, THE BILL ADDS SECTION

160.57 TO VARIOUS SECTIONS OF THE LAW WHERE SECTION 160.59 ALREADY IS

REFERENCED. AND SO I'M JUST CURIOUS, BECAUSE IT'S UNCLEAR TO ME, HOW

WE CAN HAVE TWO CONFLICTING SECTIONS COEXIST. SO ARE WE REMOVING

ONE?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: SO 160.59 SEALS MORE THAN THE OTHER AND

THEY'RE NOT CONFLICTING.

MR. SLATER: SO THEN CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME HOW

THAT PROCESS COULD WORK? IF THE CURRENT PROCESS -- IS THE CURRENT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

PROCESS GOING TO STAND?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: SO UNDER 160.59 IT DOES NOT SHOW UP IN

A CIVIL SEARCH FOR WORK PURPOSES. SO IT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF SEALING AS

WELL.

MR. SLATER: BUT WOULD SOMEBODY BE ABLE TO

ACCESS THE CURRENT PROCESS? AND IF THEY ARE ABLE TO ACCESS THAT CURRENT

PROCESS, HOW DOES THAT IMPACT THEM SHOULD THIS LEGISLATION BE PASSED?

MS. CRUZ: IT -- IT DOESN'T. THEY WOULD EVENTUALLY

BE ABLE TO DO BOTH.

MR. SLATER: SO THEN YOU'RE -- YOU'RE ABLE TO

SIMULTANEOUSLY GO THROUGH THOSE --

MS. CRUZ: NOT -- NOT SIMULTANEOUSLY BECAUSE ONE

COULD TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE OTHER.

MR. SLATER: BASED ON THE -- ON THE TIME FRAMES

THAT ARE IN YOUR LEGISLATION.

MS. CRUZ: AND BASED ON THEIR REQUIREMENTS OF THE

PARTICULAR ONES, YES.

MR. SLATER: UNDERSTOOD, UNDERSTOOD. WELL, I

APPRECIATE THAT. AND THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE FOR THE

SPONSOR.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL IF I MAY.

MS CRUZ: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL YOU MAY,

SIR.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. SLATER: I DO WANT TO THANK ASSEMBLYMEMBER

CRUZ FOR ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS. I THINK MY COLLEAGUES HAVE DONE

A PHENOMENAL JOB REALLY EXPLAINING THE CONCERNS SURROUNDING THIS

PIECE OF LEGISLATION. WE'VE SEEN THROUGHOUT THE YEAR PUBLIC POLLING

SHOWING 9 OUT OF 10 NEW YORKERS CONCERNED ABOUT CRIME, CONCERNED

ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY. AND WHILE I THINK WE ALL RECOGNIZE AS BEEN SAID

TIME AND AGAIN, THE IMPORTANCE OF -- OF SECOND CHANCES. THIS BILL, THIS

PROPOSAL, I THINK AS HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED JUST GOES ENTIRELY TOO FAR.

AGAIN, JUST SOME OF THE SPECIFICS; ENDANGERING THE WELFARE OF A CHILD,

ROBBERY, MANSLAUGHTER. YOU KNOW, WE SPENT WEEKS JUMPING THROUGH

HOOPS TRYING TO RESTORE JUDICIAL DISCRETION TO BAIL AND YET HERE WE ARE

REMOVING THAT SAME JUDICIAL DISCRETION WHEN IT COMES TO SEALING

CRIMINAL RECORDS. I HAVE A SIGNIFICANT CONCERN WITH THE DIRECTION THIS

BRINGS THIS STATE. I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS GOING TO PUT PEOPLE AT EASE

WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT

CRIME. THOSE 9 OUT OF 10 NEW YORKERS THAT WE'VE HEARD BACK FROM

TIME AND TIME AGAIN. AND I DO THINK THAT THIS IS A VERY, VERY SIGNIFICANT

OVERREACH ON SOMETHING THAT COULD BE A VERY, VERY GOOD IDEA. SO FOR

THOSE REASONS, MR. SPEAKER, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I

APPRECIATE THE TIME.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GIBBS.

MR. GIBBS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ, WILL YOU

YIELD?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: ANYTHING FOR YOU, EDDIE.

MR. GIBBS: THANK YOU, CATALINA. CLEAN SLATE IS AN

ECONOMIC JUSTICE AND POVERTY AND RACIAL BILL THAT SEEKS TO END THE

PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT AND ENABLE THE 2.3 MILLION NEW YORKERS WITH

CONVICTION RECORDS TO ACCESS THE EMPLOYMENT, HOUSING, EDUCATION AND

OTHER OPPORTUNITIES THEY NEED TO SUCCESSFULLY REENTER AND CONTRIBUTE TO

THEIR COMMUNITIES. THAT ONE PARTICULAR PARAGRAPH IS SELF-EXPLANATORY.

ON JANUARY 26TH, 2022, I, ALONG WITH FORMER

ASSEMBLYMEMBER KEITH WRIGHT AND NEW YORK COUNTY CHAIR ARRIVED

TO THIS GREAT CHAMBER. THE BODY WAS STILL ON COVID PROTOCOL AND THE

MEMBERS WERE WORKING VIA ZOOM, NO ONE'S HERE TO GREET ME. I WAS

TOLD THAT I COULDN'T BRING MY FAMILY TO WITNESS THIS HISTORIC FEAT

BECAUSE COVID PROTOCOL. THE FIRST PERSON TO GREET ME AS I ARRIVED TO

THE FOOTSTEP OF THE CHAMBER WAS WAYNE JACKSON. AND AS I STOOD IN

THE ENTRANCE IN AWE, AFRAID BUT YET ANXIOUS, WAYNE SIMPLY TOLD ME

TAKE YOUR TIME. SO I STOOD THERE AT THAT ENTRANCE AND I QUESTIONED

MYSELF, DO I BELONG HERE? IT SEEMED LIKE AN ETERNITY, AND THEN WAYNE

WALKED ME OVER TO THE FRONT AND I WAS GREETED BY SPEAKER HEASTIE WHO

SIMPLY ASKED ME, ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS?

(LAUGHTER)

I REPLIED YES, AND WAS SWORN IN BECOMING THE FIRST

FORMALLY-INCARCERATED NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATOR IN THIS BODY.

(APPLAUSE)

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I CREATED MY OWN CLEAN SLATE.

BUT THERE ARE MILLIONS OF OTHER INDIVIDUALS OUT THERE WHO DIDN'T HAVE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE LUXURY TO WORK FOR A JEWISH CRIMINAL ATTORNEY LIKE I DID WHO

SHOWED ME TRUST, SHOWED ME LOVE. WHEN A JEWISH MAN GIVE A MAN

WHO SPENT FIVE-AND-A-HALF YEARS IN PRISON KEYS TO HIS HOUSE, KEYS TO HIS

VEHICLES, KEYS TO HIS OFFICE, THAT MAKE THAT INDIVIDUAL FEEL LIKE A HUMAN

AGAIN, THAT ONE TRUST. AND I SAID IF THIS JEWISH MAN CAN GIVE ME THE

KEYS TO HIS HOME, KEYS TO HIS VEHICLE AND KEYS TO HIS OFFICE, I'M NOT

GOING TO LET THIS MAN DOWN. AND I DID NOT. AND UNBEKNOWNST TO ME,

TEN YEARS I WORKED FOR THIS ATTORNEY, IN THE THIRD OR FOURTH YEAR HIS

DAUGHTER STACEY RICHMOND SAW THE NEED TO FILE AN APPLICATION ON MY

BEHALF. TITLED, CERTIFICATE OF GOOD CONDUCT. NOW IF YOU ASKED ME

WHAT WAS A CERTIFICATE OF GOOD CONDUCT BACK THAN I WOULD SAY, I DON'T

KNOW, SOME PIECE OF PAPER. I WAS JUST HAPPY TO BE HOME, WORKING AND

TRUSTED. STACEY RICHMOND TOLD ME ABOUT NINE MONTHS LATER, MR.

GIBBS, YOUR RIGHTS HAVE BEEN RESTORED. THIS PARTICULAR CERTIFICATE LIFT

ALL BARS OF LICENSING, ALL BARS OF EMPLOYMENT, ALL RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES

ARE BACK. TO TEST THE VALIDITY OF THIS SAID CERTIFICATE, I IMMEDIATELY

WENT TO VALHALLA CORRECTIONAL FACILITY AND FILED AN APPLICATION TO WORK

THERE. THEY TOLD ME I NEEDED $75 TO TAKE THE EXAMINATION AND OF

COURSE STACEY RICHMOND GAVE ME $75. I PASSED THE EXAMINATION WITH

92.3 AND THEY PUT ME ON THE WAITING LIST TO BE A CORRECTION OFFICER.

NOW I KNEW I WAS NEVER GOING TO BE A CORRECTION OFFICER. I KNEW

VALHALLA WAS GOING TO PLAY THIS WAITING GAME AND -- AND THEY DID. AND

THE QUESTION WAS, WELL, IS HE ENTITLED TO A FIREARM LICENSE? CAN THIS

YOUNG MAN WHO SPENT FIVE-AND-A-HALF YEARS IN PRISON ON A

MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE BE ENTITLED TO POSSES A FIREARM AGAIN. GRANTED IT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WAS SELF-DEFENSE, GRANTED EVERYBODY KNEW THE STORY, IS HE ENTITLED TO A

FIREARM. AND WHEN THAT PARTICULAR DISCUSSION STARTED, I WITHDREW IT. I

DIDN'T WANT TO BE A CORRECTION OFFICER ANYMORE. I DIDN'T WANT THE

CONTROVERSY, I DIDN'T WANT THE NEWSPAPERS FOLLOWING ME, I JUST WANTED

TO DO IT QUIETLY AND BE ACCEPTED.

MURRAY RICHMOND ENCOURAGED ME TO DO SOMETHING

ELSE. AT THAT TIME PARTICULAR TIME HE WAS REPRESENTING A FORMER

COLLEAGUE IN THE ASSEMBLY, I WON'T SAY HIS NAME. BUT MURRAY SAID,

HEY, THE MAN LIVING IN YOUR DISTRICT, I WANT YOU GO BACK AND SERVE YOUR

COMMUNITY. SERVE THE SENIORS, SERVE THE YOUTH, SHOW PEOPLE THAT

YOU'RE WORTHY. SHOW THEM THAT YOU'RE WORTHY TO BE BACK IN THIS

COMMUNITY AND I DID JUST THAT. I BECAME AN ADVOCATE AND DID A LOT OF

WORK IN THE COMMUNITY, YEARS, AND I STILL HAD THE CERTIFICATE OF GOOD

CONDUCT. AND THOUGH MURRAY HIRED ME JUST FRESH OUT OF PRISON, I

DIDN'T HAVE TO INTERVIEW. I DIDN'T HAVE TO SIT FACE-TO-FACE WITH A

POTENTIAL EMPLOYER AND FEEL EMBARRASSED KNOWING THAT IN HIS HAND

POSSESSED MY RECORD, AND IN THE BACK OF HIS MIND POSSESSED THE

DECISION ALREADY THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO HIRE ME BECAUSE OF THAT RECORD.

2.3 MILLION NEW YORKERS GO THROUGH THIS. THIS IS WHY WE DON'T WANT

TO GO JOBS, WE DON'T WANT TO GO TO INTERVIEWS, WE TAKE THE EASIEST THING

YOU GUYS GIVE US. THIS PARTICULAR JOB HERE, I DIDN'T HAVE TO INTERVIEW

FOR IT. SEE, AS A SERVANT, THE FOLKS IN MY COMMUNITY KNEW MY HEART.

THEY KNEW MY CASE. THEY KNEW THE PARTICULARS OF MY CASE, SO THEY

VOTED 89 PERCENT TO SEND ME HERE. UNFORTUNATELY, EVERYBODY DON'T

HAVE THAT PATH CUT OUT FOR THEM. AND THAT IS WHY, MR. SPEAKER, I STAND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

HERE IN SUPPORT OF THIS BILL.

HEARING THE CONVERSATION THIS MORNING WHEN YOU FIRST

STARTED THE DEBATE, I TOLD MEMBER MEEKS THAT I FELT LIKE A PROP. EVER

SINCE I WAS ELECTED AND I GOT HERE, I FELT LIKE A PROP BECAUSE EVERY

NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT GEARED TO OR CATERED TO HELPING FORMALLY-

INCARCERATEDS USE ME. EVERY ORGANIZATION THAT HELPS INDIVIDUALS

INCARCERATED CALL ME. AND THEN THERE'S THE CONVERSATION THROUGHOUT THE

CHAMBERS AND THROUGHOUT OUTSIDE THE CHAMBERS IN REGARDING ME,

RIGHT, SO I FELT LIKE A PROP, BUT I'M PROUD TO BE A PROP. IF IT'S GOING TO

HELP THESE 2.3 MILLION NEW YORKERS COME HOME, REENTER SOCIETY AND

DO SOMETHING GOOD IN THEIR COMMUNITIES, USE ME.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I FIRST GOT ELECTED SPEAKER HEASTIE

ENCOURAGED ME TO VISIT PRISONS. THIS PARTICULAR LAPEL (INDICATING),

UNBEKNOWNST TO ME, GETS ME IN ANY PRISON IN NEW YORK STATE

UNANNOUNCED. I CAN JUST WALK IN LIKE THE BOSS, RIGHT. AND SO I DID.

SPEAKER HEASTIE WAS SO GRACIOUS ENOUGH HE SAID, YOU DON'T GOTTA A LOT

OF MONEY, I KNOW YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE GAS, WE'LL GIVE YOU GAS MONEY

BACK, JUST GO VISIT THEM AND I DID. I'VE BEEN TO EVERY PRISON IN NEW

YORK STATE IN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOUR COUNTIES, EXCEPT THE THREE

I'VE BEEN INTO, AND THAT'S FOR PERSONAL REASONS. BUT I SAY THAT TO SAY IN

THESE PARTICULAR PRISONS, THESE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUALS KNOW WHAT'S

GOING ON IN THIS CHAMBER. AND THEY ALL HAVE THE IDEAS AND THEY ALL

HAVE OPINIONS. AND IN MY OFFICE -- UPSTAIRS IN MY OFFICE IN

MANHATTAN, I HAVE A TOTAL OF 2,750 LETTERS FROM INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS

IN REGARDS TO BILLS, LEGISLATION AND MOSTLY I DIDN'T DO IT, LETTERS. I KNOW

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

YOU GUYS LIVE IN THE COUNTY OR A DISTRICT WHERE YOUR CONSTITUENTS MAY

NOT BE SO HAPPY WITH THIS LEGISLATION. AND AS A RESULT FOR REELECTION

EFFORTS, YOU MAY HAVE TO VOTE AGAINST IT. BUT I SAY THIS, IF IT WAS ME ON

THIS SIDE AND MY CONSTITUENTS WOULD ASK ME TO VOTE AGAINST A

LEGISLATION THAT WILL HELP 2.3 MILLION NEW YORKERS IN ORDER TO GET THIS

JOB, I COULD TELL THEM YOU CAN HAVE THIS CHAMBER AND YOU CAN KISS MY

ASS. I APOLOGIZE, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE PROFANITY. YOU SEE, BECAUSE IT'S

ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE VOTES. AND I GET IT, IT'S A JOB

FOR YOU GUYS. I DON'T WANT TO BE A POLITICIAN, I WANT TO HELP PEOPLE. I

LOVE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU GUYS. AND SINCE I GOT HERE, YOU GUYS

THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY BECAUSE I SIT IN EVERYBODY'S SEAT. NO, I'M NOT

CRAZY. THERE'S 149 PERSONALITIES IN THIS CHAMBER AND EACH AND EVERY

ONE OF YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME. I KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU ALL THAN THE

SENIOR MEMBERS WHO'VE BEEN HERE. ME AND SCOTT BENDETT, WE ARE

GOING TO START THE SECOND WOODSTOCK IN HIS COMMUNITY.

(LAUGHTER)

SCOTT BENDETT GROWS THE THING, HE GOT 300 ACRES. NOW

HIS CONSTITUENTS GONNA BE PISSED OFF WHEN I BRING ALL THE RAPPERS THERE

BUT HEY.

(LAUGHTER)

SMULLEN. SMULLEN'S ONE OF THE FOUR MEMBERS WHO

GAVE ME A HARD TIME HERE. HE REALLY DON'T OPEN UP YET. AND THIS IS

WHY HE DIDN'T INVITE ME TO HIS BARBECUE LAST WEEK.

(LAUGHTER/APPLAUSE)

BUT IT'S OKAY. I WAS TOLD THE BURGERS WERE DRY

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ANYWAY.

(LAUGHTER)

THAT'S WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU HANG WITH DURSO AT

NIGHT AND DRINKING. DURSO TELL IT ALL. SORRY, SMULLEN. I LOVE YOU, MAN.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS GUYS, JUST HAVE THEM LAUGHING AND WE JUST GET

ALONG, THAT'S THE GREAT FEELING. IF YOU CAN'T LIVE, LOVE AND LAUGH THEN

WHY BOTHER. SO I KNOW WHEN IT'S TIME TO VOTE, YOU GUYS MIGHT PRESS

THAT RED BUTTON, AND I UNDERSTAND IT'S ALL ABOUT VOTES. BUT REMEMBER, AT

THE OTHER END OF THE VOTE IS PEOPLE LIVES ON THE OTHER END. YOU GOT

NEW YORKERS WHO WANT TO COME HOME AND DO RIGHT. IN THIS PARTICULAR

BILL THE GOVERNOR SAID SHE WANT TO EXCLUDE A-1 MURDERERS. I GET IT. I

KNOW A FEW OF THEM. I'M AFRAID OF TWO OF THEM. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT IT,

MURDERS ARE THE ONES WHO LEASE COMMIT RECIDIVISM. THESE GUYS WANT

TO COME HOME, GET TO THEIR FAMILIES, MOST SPENT 20 YEARS IN JAIL OR

MORE, DON'T WANT TO GO BACK. I'VE BEEN THERE FIVE YEARS AND I WAS TIRED

OF PEANUT BUTTER AND JELLY AND RAMEN NOODLE SOUP, SO IMAGINE THESE

GUYS WHEN THEY COME HOME. THEY WANT TO WORK, THEY WANT TO SEE

THEIR FAMILIES, SOME HAD KIDS WHEN THEY WENT IN, THEY'RE NOW SENIORS.

THIS IS WHY I SUPPORTED THE RAPP BILL. WE HAVE A LOT OF OLDER

INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS, MEN AND WOMEN WHO JUST DESERVE TO BE

HOME. BEEN THERE 20-25 YEARS OR MORE, SERVED THEIR TIME, THEY'RE

TIRED. I DIDN'T WANT TO GO BACK. I'M NOT GOING BACK.

SO MY COLLEAGUES ON THIS SIDE OF THE AISLE - AND I --

AND I APOLOGIZE FOR ADDRESSING YOU ALL PERSONALLY - BUT YOU KNOW IN MY

HEART, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU GUYS - THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

LEGISLATION TO ME. IT'S NOT A GET OUT OF FREE JAIL CARD. LET'S MAKE

COMMONSENSE COMMON ONCE AGAIN IN ALBANY. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR.

GIBBS, FOR REMINDING ME WHY I STAYED 30-PLUS YEARS.

MR. RA.

AND I DON'T ENVY YOU.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. RA: REALLY, REALLY? AND I -- AND I HAVE TO SAY,

THE -- THE GROUP OF US THAT TRAVELED TO ISRAEL IN FEBRUARY TOGETHER WILL

REMEMBER, THIS IS THE SECOND TIME HE'S DONE THIS TO ME BECAUSE THE LAST

NIGHT WE WERE ALL MAKING THESE EMOTIONAL SPEECHES AT DINNER AND

EDDIE FINISHED SPEAKING AND I WAS LIKE I CAN'T GO AFTER THAT. SO THANK

YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE. THIS IS AN EMOTIONAL ISSUE AND MY -- MY GOOD

FRIEND EDDIE HAS MADE THE LAST TWO DAYS TWO OF THE MOST HEARTFELT AND

EMOTIONAL SPEECHES I HAVE SEEN IN MY 13 YEARS HERE, SO LOVE YOU,

BROTHER.

BUT YES, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ YIELDS.

MR. RA: I JUST WANTED SOMEBODY ELSE SPEAKING

ALONGSIDE ME AFTER THAT, YOU KNOW.

MS. CRUZ: SURE,

MR. RA: SO JUST A FEW QUESTIONS JUST FOR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

CLARIFICATION, ONE OF WHICH I KNOW, I THINK WAS ADDRESSED IN PARTICULAR

TO A SPECIFIC CRIME, BUT THIS -- THESE EXCEPTIONS REGARDING WHEN OR WHO

CAN ACCESS THESE RECORDS IN PARTICULAR WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT PROSECUTORS.

AND I KNOW THERE ARE DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF THE PENAL LAW WHERE

THERE'S, YOU KNOW, AN OFFENSE CHANGES BECAUSE OF PRIOR OFFENSES WITHIN

A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME OR WHAT HAVE YOU. SO WOULD IT ESSENTIALLY BE

THAT THAT PROSECUTOR IF SOMEBODY -- IF -- IF THEY HAVE CHARGED SOMEBODY

WITH A CRIME AND THERE IS SOME POTENTIAL FOR RELATED CRIME THEY COULD

RUN THE --

MS. CRUZ: THE POTENTIAL FOR WHAT? I'M SORRY?

MR. RA: IF THERE'S -- I KNOW IT WAS MENTIONED I THINK

WITH MISDEMEANOR DWI --

MS. CRUZ: MM-HMM.

MR. RA: ANY -- ANYTHING LIKE THAT WHERE IF THERE'S A

SECOND OFFENSE IT COULD BE -- IT COULD TRIGGER, YOU KNOW, A HIGHER

CHARGE, THE PROSECUTOR WOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE RECORD?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THAT

CLARIFICATION. NOW, ANOTHER QUESTION I HAD, I KNOW IT CAME UP EARLIER,

THE A FELONIES. BUT NONE -- NONE OF THE NARCOTICS OFFENSE, RIGHT, ALL THE

220 OF THE PENAL LAW --

MS. CRUZ: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. RA: -- ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THAT.

MS. CRUZ: THEY ARE -- THEY ARE -- YOU MEAN THEY'RE

NOT INCLUDED IN THE EXCLUSION OR THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED IN --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. RA: THEY'RE NOT PART OF THE -- THEY'RE NOT PART OF

THE EXCLUSION.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. RA: SO THEY -- THEY WILL BE SUBJECT TO SEAL.

MS. CRUZ: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. RA: YES, OKAY. THANK YOU. AND I JUST WANT TO

I GUESS POINT OUT, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE -- WELL, I'LL GET INTO THAT LATER ON

THE BILL BUT -- WHEN -- WHEN A FEW YEARS AGO WITH REGARD TO BAIL REFORM

AS WELL THOSE WERE -- THOSE WERE EXCLUDED SO I ALWAYS LOOK FOR THAT

LANGUAGE AND I -- I'LL BE HONEST, I DON'T HAVE THE BACKGROUND THAT

YOURSELF OR MANY OF OUR COLLEAGUES HAVE IN TERMS OF BEING A

PROSECUTOR. I PROSECUTED FOR A COUPLE YEARS BUT THEY WERE FENCES AND

-- AND POOLS FOR MY -- FOR MY LOCAL TOWN SO I DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE NEAR

THE VOLUME OF -- OF -- OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE PENAL LAW THAT YOU ALL

HAVE SO THIS HAS BEEN HELPFUL IN THIS, BUT THAT WAS ONE THAT I'VE GOTTEN

TO KNOW VERY WELL OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS DURING THE WHOLE BAIL

REFORM CONVERSATION AND -- AND -- AND THAT.

SO ANOTHER QUESTION THAT HAS COME UP AND MY

UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THERE HAD BEEN SOME CHANGES WITH THE MOST

RECENT AMENDMENTS THAT MIGHT ADDRESS THIS AND IF YOU CAN GO INTO THAT

IF THAT'S THE CASE, IF SOMEBODY IS ON PAROLE FOR AN OUT-OF-STATE CRIME.

MS. CRUZ: IT WOULD ONLY BE FOR PENDING CHARGES

THAT ARE OUT-OF-STATE.

MR. RA: PENDING SO --

MS. CRUZ: PENDING OR ACCESS FROM THE FEDERAL

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

GOVERNMENT.

MR. RA: SO IF SOMEBODY IS ON PAROLE, THOUGH, FOR AN

OUT-OF-STATE CRIME, IT WOULD NOT TRIGGER ANY EXCLUSION FROM THIS.

MS. CRUZ: NO.

MR. RA: OKAY, THANK -- THANK YOU. WITH REGARD TO,

YOU KNOW, THE EXCEPTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO EMPLOYERS. MY

UNDERSTANDING IS IT'S ONLY IF THERE'S A LAW REQUIRING, YOU KNOW,

FINGERPRINTING OR THAT OR IS IT JUST FINGERPRINTING OR FINGERPRINTING

BACKGROUND CHECKS?

MS. CRUZ: REQUIRING OR PERMITTING ACCESS WHEN

WORKING WITH THE VULNERABLE POPULATIONS THAT YOU MENTIONED BEFORE;

CHILDREN, SENIORS, YOUTH, FOLKS WITH DIMINISHMENT CAPACITY, ET CETERA,

ET CETERA.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND I KNOW IT REFERENCES, I GUESS,

LOCAL LAWS THAT ARE PREVIOUSLY IN EFFECT THAT MIGHT REQUIRE THAT AS WELL.

NOW, I ASSUME THAT LANGUAGE IS DONE -- THE WAY THAT LANGUAGE IS

WRITTEN READING IT IS SO THAT, YOU KNOW, ALL KINDS OF LOCAL LAWS DON'T

COME OUT OF THIS TRYING TO PUT IN NEW FINGERPRINT REQUIREMENTS.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT. BUT ALSO RECOGNIZING THAT

THERE ARE SOME IN EXISTENCE --

MR. RA: YES.

MS. CRUZ: -- THAT WE ARE NOT TRYING TO TAKE AWAY THE

EFFECT OF WHATEVER IS ALREADY IN EXISTENCE.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND -- AND I JUST -- I -- I WOULD SAY

-- WELL, I MEAN PERHAPS THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'LL COME UP IN THE FUTURE IF

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THERE IS, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO HAVE BEEN IN EFFECT A YEAR PRIOR?

MS. CRUZ: THAT IS CORRECT. BUT IF ANY OF OUR

COLLEAGUES FIGURE OUT THAT THERE IS A LOCAL ISSUE, I AM SURE WE CAN COME

UP WITH A BILL.

MR. RA: OKAY. THAT'S -- THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO

ASK BECAUSE THERE MAY BE -- I'M NOT AWARE OF ONE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN --

WITHIN THE DISTRICT I REPRESENT BUT THERE MAY BE SOMEBODY WHO HAS A

RECENTLY ENACTED LAW THAT'S, YOU KNOW, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS,

WASN'T INTENDED TO SAY OH, WE BETTER GET OUT, I HAD A CLEAN SLATE OR

SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

MS. CRUZ: GIVE ME ONE SECOND.

(PAUSE)

IT SAYS ONE YEAR PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE. SO IT

WOULD HAVE TO BE IN PLACE NOW.

MR. RA: OKAY. ONE YEAR PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE,

OKAY, THANK YOU. SO WITH THAT, YOU HAVE OTHER ENTITIES, OTHER TYPES OF

JOBS THAT HAVE EXPRESSED CONCERNS WITH THIS THAT DON'T HAVE THAT LEGAL

REQUIREMENT. AND IN PARTICULAR, YOU KNOW, IT'S THERE FOR SAY PUBLIC

SCHOOLS BUT MAY NOT BE FOR A, YOU KNOW, A PRIVATE SCHOOL, A PAROCHIAL

SCHOOL.

MS. CRUZ: WELL, I'M -- I'M GOING TO STOP YOU REAL

QUICK --

MR. RA: GO AHEAD.

MS. CRUZ: -- BECAUSE AS I BELIEVE I MENTIONED TO A

COLLEAGUE OF YOURS EARLIER, WE'VE CREATED THOSE EXCEPTIONS AS WELL TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ENSURE THAT A PRIVATE SCHOOL CAN HAVE OR A PAROCHIAL SCHOOL CAN HAVE

ACCESS TO THAT INFORMATION.

MR. RA: THE SCHOOL THEMSELVES CAN GET ACCESS TO

THE INFORMATION?

MS. CRUZ: THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.

MR. RA: THE STATE EDUCATION.

MS. CRUZ: MM-HMM, WHICH -- WHICH RUNS THE

CHECK FOR THE SCHOOL.

MR. RA: BUT THERE MAY BE INDIVIDUALS, MY

UNDERSTANDING IS THAT -- THAT MAY NOT BE LICENSED TEACHERS IN SOME OF

THOSE -- IN SOME OF THOSE SCHOOLS. WOULD THEY STILL -- I MEAN COULD IT

BE SOMEBODY WHO'S A TEACHER BUT DOESN'T NECESSARILY POSSESS A

TEACHING LICENSE OR ANY OTHER, YOU KNOW, SUPPORT STAFF THAT WORKS IN A

SCHOOL -- IN A PRIVATE SCHOOL, OR WOULD IT JUST BE PEOPLE THAT ARE

LICENSED THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION?

MS. CRUZ: IT'S FOR PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO

THE KIDS. SO IF THESE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE WORKING WITHIN THAT -- THAT

ARENA IT WOULD -- IT WOULD -- THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO ACCESS IT FOR THEM.

MR. RA: BUT WOULD -- WOULD THEY HAVE TO BE

SOMEBODY THAT'S LICENSED BY THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT?

MS. CRUZ: WE'RE GOING TO DOUBLE-CHECK THAT FOR

YOU. IF YOU WANT TO -- WE DON'T THINK SO BUT WE'LL DOUBLE-CHECK FOR

YOU. IF YOU WANT TO ASK ME ANOTHER ONE WHILE WE CHECK.

MR. RA: OKAY, GREAT. WELL, I -- I -- I THINK IT'S

PROBABLY GONNA --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: ALL RIGHT. GIVE ME ONE SECOND.

MR. RA: YEAH.

MS. CRUZ: CRIMINAL HISTORY, RECORD CHECKS AND

CONDITIONAL APPOINTMENTS NON-PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS. AN

EMPLOYEE SHALL MEAN ANY PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEE OF A PUBLIC -- OF A

NON-PUBLIC OR PRIVATE ELEMENTARY OR SECONDARY SCHOOL WHICH REQUIRES

THE FINGERPRINTING OF PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEES PURSUANT TO THE SECTION FOR

EMPLOYEE OF A CONTRACT THE SERVICE PROVIDER OR WORKER PLACED WITHIN

SUCH SCHOOL UNDER THE PUBLIC ASSISTANCE EMPLOYMENT PROGRAM. I

WON'T READ YOU THE WHOLE THING BUT YES. THAT ANSWERS THAT THEY WOULD

BE COVERED AS WELL.

MR. RA: OKAY. NOW WHAT ABOUT THOSE SAME

ORGANIZATIONS IF THEY'RE RUNNING, YOU KNOW, A CAMP IN THE SUMMER OR --

OR, YOU KNOW, EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES, YOU KNOW, FOR MAYBE --

MAYBE A -- A -- A COACH THAT THEY NEED TO HIRE OR A TRAINER OR SOMETHING

LIKE THAT?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: SO RIGHT NOW SUMMER CAMPS ARE

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM SCHOOLS, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO DO THOSE

CHECKS.

MR. RA: SO -- SO A SUMMER CAMP WOULD -- WOULD

NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS.

MS. CRUZ: THEY'RE NOT CURRENTLY REQUIRED TO AND

THEY DON'T -- THEY CAN GET THE PUBLIC BACKGROUND CHECK.

MR. RA: THEY CAN GET THE PUBLIC BACKGROUND BUT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THEY -- ANYTHING UNDER SEAL THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ACCESS, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THEY DON'T GET IT NOW BECAUSE THE SEALED

RECORDS IS FOR FINGERPRINT-BASED BACKGROUND CHECKS. THEY DON'T GET

FINGERPRINT -- FINGERPRINT-BASED BACKGROUND -- BACKGROUND CHECKS

NOW.

MR. RA: ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. GIVE ME ONE SECOND.

THERE IT IS, OKAY. SO I GUESS MY -- MY ONE OTHER QUESTION I WANTED TO

ASK, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK RELATIVE TO THIS,

YOU KNOW, FROM VOTERS. THIS HAS -- WE'VE -- WE'VE ALL SEEN IN THE LAST

FEW WEEKS THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND TALKING ABOUT THIS AND

CERTAINLY I -- I CAN APPRECIATE THE EFFORT THAT YOU'VE MADE OVER -- OVER

THE PAST WEEKS WITH REGARD TO TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THIS -- THIS

BILL TO THIS POINT. BUT HAVE -- PART OF THAT CONVERSATION HAS -- HAVE

VICTIM GROUPS, ADVOCACY GROUPS BEEN PART OF THAT CONVERSATION?

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU FOR ASKING THAT, MR. RA. AS I

MENTIONED TO ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES EARLIER, WE HAVE A -- I THINK IT'S

ALMOST HALF A DOZEN, MAYBE EVEN MORE, VICTIM CENTER GROUPS AS PART OF

OUR 200 ORGANIZATION COALITION. AND ACTUALLY, I'M GOING TO CORRECT

THAT. IT HASN'T BEEN JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS, FOR ABOUT THREE OR FOUR

YEARS WE'VE BEEN WORKING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE HEARING AND -- AND

LISTENING TO PEOPLE.

MR. RA: OKAY, THANK YOU.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. RA.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MR. RA.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. RA: THANK YOU. SO, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN

LISTENING TO THIS DEBATE AND -- AND AGAIN, I'M ALWAYS THANKFUL IN THIS

CHAMBER THAT WE HAVE MEMBERS OF ALL DIFFERENT PROFESSIONAL

BACKGROUNDS AND ESPECIALLY ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS. YOU KNOW,

HEARING THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES WHO HAVE

PRACTICED IN THE -- IN THE AREA OF CRIMINAL LAW OR BEEN PART OF LAW

ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE THEY HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT PERSPECTIVE ON -- ON

THIS. I LOOK AT THIS LIKE A LOT OF THE OTHER CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORMS THAT

WE HAVE SEEN THE LAST FEW YEARS. THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD INTENTION, BUT

WE SEEM TO TAKE IT TOO FAR. I -- I -- I THINK THERE'S GREAT OPPORTUNITY

HERE TO GIVE PEOPLE SECOND CHANCES, MAKE SURE THEY CAN GET JOBS AND --

AND GET ON WITH THEIR LIVES. BUT THEN I LOOK AT SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW,

EXCLUSIONS THAT AREN'T THERE AND -- AND -- AND THAT'S WHAT GIVES ME

PAUSE. THERE'S GROUPS THAT HAVE WEIGHED IN IN OPPOSITION TO THIS

BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE

TO PROTECT CHILDREN IN A -- IN A WORKPLACE SETTING IF -- IF THEY CAN'T

ACCESS CERTAIN INFORMATION BEFOREHAND.

I -- I AM GOING TO POINT OUT, SINCE I MENTIONED EARLIER,

THOSE PENAL LAW 220 NARCOTICS OFFENSES. SO WHAT HAPPENED WHEN --

WHEN WE DID BAIL REFORM WAS A FELONIES WERE -- WERE BAIL ELIGIBLE

EXCEPT FOR THOSE NARCOTICS OFFENSES. THERE -- THERE WAS ONE WHICH WAS

THE TOP ONE WHICH WAS OPERATING AS A MAJOR TRAFFICKER. NOW THOSE ARE

ALL EXCLUDED HERE. AND MAYBE INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE TRAFFIC IN VERY,

VERY LARGE SUM OF NARCOTICS. YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THE FENTANYL

PROBLEM ON OUR -- ON OUR STREET. THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE THAT ARE -- YOU

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

KNOW, PEOPLE THAT HAVE A PROBLEM THAT WE JUST NEED TO GET HELP.

THEY'RE PEOPLE THAT ARE MOVING SOME SERIOUS AMOUNTS OF DEADLY

SUBSTANCES. THAT CONCERNS ME. WE'VE SEEN TOO MUCH OF THAT ON OUR --

ON OUR STREETS, THE FENTANYL PROBLEM. SO WE REALLY NEED TO THINK ABOUT

THAT. AND -- AND I DO WONDER WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO SEE A SITUATION

HERE LIKE WE HAVE SEEN WITH THESE OTHER REFORMS THAT SOMETHING'S GOING

TO HAPPEN AND WE'RE GOING TO SAY OH, WE GOTTA -- WE HAVE TO CONTINUE

TO TALK ABOUT IT SO -- AND I HOPE WE DO CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT IT. AND I

HOPE WE CONTINUE TO FIND WAYS TO DO THIS IN A -- IN A MEASURED MANNER

THAT HELPS PEOPLE GET ON WITH THEIR LIVES BUT ALSO MAKES SURE THAT WE

TREAT SERIOUSLY THE GRAVITY OF -- OF CRIMES THAT HAVE BEEN COMMITTED

WHEN -- WHEN IT'S AN INDIVIDUAL THAT MAY BE, YOU KNOW, HAS COMMITTED

A CRIME THAT MAKES THEM NOT SUITABLE TO WORK IN A CERTAIN SETTING OR --

OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. SO I'M GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE

AND I APPRECIATE THE DEBATE. I APPRECIATE THE EMOTION OF THE ISSUE, BUT

TO ME THIS TAKES THIS TOO FAR. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. ZACCARO.

MR. ZACCARO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU

KNOW, AS A PARENT I TEACH MY CHILDREN THAT EVERYONE MAKES MISTAKES

AND WHEN THEY DO WE ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY. AND WE FIGURE OUT HOW

BEST NOT TO REPEAT THOSE MISTAKES. AND OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM --

OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM HOLDS THOSE ACCOUNTABLE WHO HAVE

COMMITTED CRIMES AND THEY SHOULD. AFTER ALL, ACCEPTING THE

CONSEQUENCES OF OUR ACTIONS IS IMPORTANT. BUT IF WE ALSO EMPOWER THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SYSTEM TO RELEASE PEOPLE ONCE THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY HAS BEEN FULFILLED,

SHOULDN'T WE ALSO FOSTER A REENTRY PROCESS THAT EMPOWERS THESE SAME

INDIVIDUALS TO LIVE A PRODUCTIVE LIFE IN SOCIETY?

UNDER CURRENT LAW BEING CONVICTED OF A CRIME IN NEW

YORK CAN MEAN A LIFETIME OF BLOCKED OPPORTUNITIES WITH THE DAMAGE OF

A CONVICTION RECORD PERMANENTLY BARRING FAR TOO MANY INDIVIDUALS

ACCESS TO HOUSING, TO JOBS AND TO RESOURCES TO LIVE LIFE THEREON. YOU

KNOW, STORIES LIKE MY COLLEAGUE WHO JUST SHARED, MR. GIBBS, IS NOT ONE

THAT'S COMMON. A MAN WHOSE TURNED HIS PAIN INTO PURPOSE. AND, YOU

KNOW, MR. SPEAKER, I COME FROM THE STREETS IN THE BRONX WHERE MANY

KIDS WHO GREW UP LIKE ME UNDER A SINGLE PARENT DON'T HAVE THE

OPPORTUNITIES TO STAND IN THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE IN THE STATE ASSEMBLY.

AND WHILE I WAS ABLE TO LIVE A LIFE JUST SHORT OF MAKING A DETERMINATION

THAT COULD HAVE LITERALLY SENT MY LIFE IN THE CATASTROPHIC WAY, THERE ARE

MANY PEOPLE WHO I GREW UP WITH THAT I KNOW THAT DIDN'T GET THAT

OPPORTUNITY. AND I GREW UP AND THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT I WAS

AFFORDED AT THE AGE OF 17 TO WORK AND TAKE ON AN INTERNSHIP IN

GOVERNMENT FOR THE FIRST TIME. AND I RECALL MOMENTS, MR. SPEAKER,

WEEK AFTER WEEK, MONTHS AFTER MONTHS, YEAR AFTER YEAR, RUNNING INTO

THE SAME INDIVIDUALS ON MY BLOCK WHO I GREW UP WITH WHO MANY OF US

SEE ON THE STREET CORNERS IN FRONT OF THE LOCAL BODEGAS AND MANY OF THE

OTHER AREAS IN OUR STREETS. AND I'D WALK AROUND IN A SUIT AND TIE, PROUD

OF THE OPPORTUNITY THAT I WAS BEING GIVEN TO DO SOMETHING WITH MY LIFE.

AND ONE OF THE PAINFUL THINGS, MR. SPEAKER, THAT I HAD TO DEAL WITH AND

COME TO THE CONCLUSION IN CONVERSATING WITH MANY OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WAS THAT WHEN I WAS LOOKED AT, I WAS LOOKED AT AS SOMEONE WHO WAS

GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY AND WAS ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING WITH IT. AND I

WOULD HEAR QUESTIONS FROM THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT WOULD SAY MAN, I

WISH I CAN BE LIKE YOU, PUT ON A SUIT AND GO TO WORK. I WISH THAT I HAD

THE OPPORTUNITY THAT YOU HAD BUT WE SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING, DON'T FORGET

THE HOOD. DON'T FORGET SOME OF US AS YOU GO ALONG IN YOUR JOURNEY.

AND THERE WERE TIMES I WOULD RESPOND TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND I

WOULD LOOK AT THEM AND SAY, MAN, YOU CAN DO THE SAME THING, YOU CAN

MAKE SOMETHING OF YOURSELF. YOU CAN GET OFF THE STREET CORNER, PUT ON

A SHIRT AND TIE AND DO SOMETHING. UNTIL I WAS ROCKED WITH THE RESPONSE

OF MANY OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT FOLLOWED THAT WOULD SAY, I CAN'T DO

WHAT YOU DO, BECAUSE I GOT A CRIMINAL RECORD. I CAN'T GO TO PLACES

YOU'RE GOING BECAUSE THERE'S A DECISION I MADE THAT FAR TOO LONG HAS

FOLLOWED ME. AND SO I LOOK AT YOU AS AN OPPORTUNITY OF HOPE THAT ONE

DAY WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. AND, MR. SPEAKER, TODAY I STAND

BEFORE YOU AS A MAN RAISED BY A SINGLE MOTHER WHO GREW UP IN THE

STREETS OF THE BRONX, WHO SUFFERED SOME OF THOSE ISSUES IN LIFE THAT

MANY OF OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN DEAL WITH TODAY AND WALK THE LIFE

THAT MANY OF THEM WALK. AND THANK GOD THAT I DIDN'T TURN TO SOME OF

THOSE AREAS AND DIRECTIONS IN WHICH SOME OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS TURNED.

BUT YOU KNOW SOMETHING, MR. SPEAKER, I STAND HERE TODAY ALL THE MORE

ENCOURAGED, BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T GO DOWN THAT PATH, I STILL

STAND HERE TODAY AS AN EXAMPLE, BUT MORE IN COURAGE AS A SIGN OF HOPE

THAT I GET TO GO BACK TO MY BLOCK. I GET TO GO BACK TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS

WHO I GREW UP WITH. AND THIS SUMMER I LOOK FORWARD TO HANDING THEM

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

A BLANK PIECE OF PAPER. AND I'M GOING TO SAY HERE'S YOUR CANVAS, I

DIDN'T FORGET. I GET TO GO BACK HOME AND LOOK THOSE PEOPLE IN THE EYE

AND SAY I REMEMBERED WHERE I CAME FROM AND IT WAS YOUR STORY, IT WAS

YOUR STRUGGLE, THAT LIFTED ME TO THE HALLS OF THE NEW YORK STATE

ASSEMBLY. HERE'S YOUR CANVAS, PAINT YOUR PICTURE. DREAM. BECAUSE

TODAY WE'RE CREATING THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR SO MANY PEOPLE.

I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS IMPORTANT

LEGISLATION. I WANT TO THANK HER FOR HER DETERMINATION, FOR HER -- FOR HER

GUT TO DO WHAT WAS RIGHT. DESPITE ALL THE OPPOSITION, DESPITE ALL THE

COMMENTS AND ALL THE CRITICS, I WANT TO THANK HER FOR DOING SOMETHING

THAT OFTEN TOO MANY PEOPLE IN OUR POSITION DON'T DO. LISTEN TO THEIR

CONVICTIONS AND FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THEM. MR. SPEAKER, I PROUDLY

VOTE FOR THIS BILL AND I LOOK FORWARD TO ITS PASSAGE. THANK YOU SO

MUCH.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DURSO.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

MS. CRUZ: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ.

MS. CRUZ YIELDS, SIR.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ. AND THANK YOU

FOR TAKING EVERYBODY'S QUESTIONS. I KNOW SO FAR --

MS. CRUZ: JUST MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT THE SAME

QUESTIONS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. DURSO: I CAN'T GUARANTEE THAT.

(LAUGHTER)

SO ACTUALLY I WANT TO START WITH THE EMPLOYMENT

ASPECT OF THIS. WE WERE SPEAKING ABOUT AND OTHERS THAT BROUGHT IT UP

THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S GOING TO OPEN UP THE OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE

JOBS FOR PEOPLE, RIGHT, AND -- AND PEOPLE BE ABLE TO BE EMPLOYED. SO IN

YOUR ESTIMATION IN CREATING THIS BILL, WHAT JOBS WOULD THESE -- THESE

INDIVIDUALS THAT NOW FALL UNDER THIS BE ABLE TO GET NOW THAT THEY

COULDN'T GET PRIOR?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE BEEN LOOKING AT

THE ONES THAT -- THAT WILL DISCRIMINATE AGAINST SOMEONE WITH A CRIMINAL

RECORD, BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DOESN'T MEAN THAT

YOU DON'T. IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE HAVE SO MANY LABOR UNIONS

INCLUDING LOCAL 338 THAT I BELIEVE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH SUPPORTING OUR

BILL.

MR. DURSO: I -- I UNDERSTOOD THAT AND I'VE

OBVIOUSLY BEEN -- BEEN IN OPPOSITION TO THE BILL THE WHOLE TIME WHICH

MAKES IT INTERESTING AT HOME.

MS. CRUZ: I CAN ONLY IMAGINE.

MR. DURSO: BUT WE'LL HAVE THAT CONVERSATION

ANOTHER TIME. BUT, AGAIN, I MEAN YOU SAID THAT THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY

LABOR UNIONS IN FAVOR OF THIS. I'M JUST WONDERING WHICH ONE OF THOSE --

WHETHER IT'S A UNION, WHETHER IT'S A PRIVATE EMPLOYER, COULDN'T HIRE

THESE INDIVIDUALS BEFORE BUT CAN NOW, BECAUSE THAT WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE

THE GENESIS OF IT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: AND LOOK IT. I THINK IN AN IDEAL WORLD

THE SCENARIO YOU'RE PAINTING IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. JUST BECAUSE

SOMEONE HAS A CRIMINAL RECORD AND THE BACKGROUND CHECK COMES BACK

SAYING EVEN IF IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A JOB THAT SOMEONE HAS A

CRIMINAL RECORD, YOU SHOULD GIVE THEM THE JOB. BUT THE REALITY LIVED BY

THESE 2.3 MILLION PEOPLE IS THAT IT'S NOT LIKE THAT.

MR. DURSO: SO -- SO OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: IT COULD BE ANY JOB.

MR. DURSO: RIGHT, SO ANY JOB. SO REALLY IT'S THE

EMPLOYER WASN'T ALLOWED TO NOT HIRE THEM PRIOR. IT'S JUST NOW BECAUSE

THEIR RECORDS WILL BE SEALED, ESSENTIALLY, THEY CANNOT EITHER ASK IF

THEY'VE BEEN CONVICTED OF THOSE CRIMES OR IT DOESN'T COME UP IN SOME

TYPE OF CONVERSATION CHECK OR WHATEVER IT IS. AGAIN, THEY COULD'VE

HIRED THEM PRIOR, JUST NOW IT'S TAKING THE LIABILITY AWAY FROM THE

EMPLOYER HIRING THEM, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, CURRENTLY THEY COULD ASK, THEY'RE

JUST NOT SUPPOSE TO USE IT AS THE SOLE BASIS FOR NOT HIRING THEM. BUT IN

PRACTICE WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS THAT THEY DO.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, THEY

COULD STILL ESSENTIALLY BE HIRED AT THE SAME JOBS, EXCEPT OBVIOUSLY YOU

WERE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THOSE JOBS THAT HAVE CERTAIN TYPE OF

LICENSING --

MS. CRUZ: YES, EXCEPT THE EXCLUSIONS, YES.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO I WANTED TO GET INTO THAT.

MS. CRUZ: I WOULD -- I WOULD ACTUALLY CHANGE THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AND SAY NOW THEY HAVE A REAL CHANCE AT BEING HIRED AT THAT JOB BECAUSE

YOU COULD APPLY FOR IT BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET IT RIGHT NOW.

MR. DURSO: WELL, THEY COULD BE LEGALLY HIRED AT

THOSE JOBS.

MS. CRUZ: THEY COULD BE, THEY'RE JUST NOT.

MR. DURSO: UNDERSTOOD. BUT THERE WAS NOTHING IN

THE LEGAL SYSTEM PREVENTING THEM FROM BEING HIRED. IT WAS THE --

MS. CRUZ: YEAH, OTHER THAN HUMAN ACTION, YES.

MR. DURSO: RIGHT. IT WAS THE EMPLOYER DECIDING

NOT TO HIRE THEM.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DURSO: SO ACTUALLY JUST GOING BACK TO THAT, SO

NOW WITH THAT, IF I'M AN EMPLOYER OF A SMALL BUSINESS, WHATEVER THE

CASE MAY BE, YOU HAD SAID IT EARLIER YOU CANNOT ASK, RIGHT, ON AN

APPLICATION, RIGHT, AM I -- AM I CORRECT WITH THAT? I JUST WANT TO MAKE

SURE I HAVE THAT RIGHT.

MS. CRUZ: YOU CAN ASK EXCEPT IN NEW YORK CITY.

MR. DURSO: EXCEPT IN NEW YORK CITY.

MS. CRUZ: BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE BAN THE BOX LAW.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO NOW IF I'M AN EMPLOYER AND

I ASK AND YOUR RECORDS HAVE ALREADY BEEN SEALED, CORRECT, DO YOU HAVE

TO GIVE ME THAT INFORMATION?

MS. CRUZ: NO. AND AS THEY SAY IN COURT, THIS HAS

BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED PREVIOUSLY.

MR. DURSO: WELL, I FIGURED THAT WAS GOING TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

HAPPEN. SO I APOLOGIZE.

MS. CRUZ: IT'S OKAY.

MR. DURSO: IT'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS BACK AND FORTH.

MS. CRUZ: I'LL INDULGE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE.

MR. DURSO: WELL, OKAY, THANK YOU. SO NOW ME AS

A PRIVATE EMPLOYER --

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. DURSO: -- AGAIN THE RECORDS ARE NOT SEALED. I

DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE SAME RECORDS I USED TO HAVE BEFORE WITH

FINGERPRINTS RECORDS, STUFF LIKE THAT. BUT IF I WAS TO SAY SEARCH THE

INTERNET, WHICH OBVIOUSLY EVERYBODY CAN DO AND FOUND THE CASE ON LINE

WITH YOUR NAME IN IT, AND I'M THE EMPLOYER AND YOU COME IN FOR AN

INTERVIEW AND I SAID, OH, WELL, I ACTUALLY LOOKED YOU UP. I SAW THAT YOU

WERE INVOLVED IN THIS CRIME, IS THERE ANY PENALTY OF THAT EMPLOYER IF I

DECIDE NOT TO HIRE YOU BECAUSE OF THE CRIMES YOU COMMITTED PRIOR?

MS. CRUZ: IF THEY USE A SEALED RECORD FOR AN

ADVERSE DETERMINATION, THEN IT'S A VIOLATION OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW.

AND -- AND BEFORE YOU -- YOU MOVE ON IF I MAY --

MR. DURSO: SURE.

MS. CRUZ: I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS - AND I KNOW

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SMALL BUSINESSES AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'D BE

LIABLE FOR OR NOT - BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE -- IN THESE

200 SUPPORTERS GROUP WE HAVE CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE, THE

PARTNERSHIP FOR NEW YORK CITY THAT REPRESENTS SMALL AND LARGE

BUSINESSES, THE BUSINESS COUNCIL AND WE'VE HAD SEVERAL SMALL BUSINESS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

OWNERS ACTUALLY WRITE OP-EDS IN SUPPORT OF CLEAN SLATE BECAUSE WHAT

THEY WANT IS TO HELP PEOPLE GET BACK TO WORK.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. AND THAT MAY BE THE OPINION OF

CERTAIN ONES, OBVIOUSLY AND I -- I RESPECT THAT, JUST LIKE I RESPECT

EVERYBODY'S OPINION HERE. THERE MAY BE OTHER EMPLOYERS THAT DON'T

FEEL THE SAME WAY. SO I'M JUST ASKING ON BEHALF OF EVERYBODY.

MS. CRUZ: IF THOSE EMPLOYERS THAT DON'T FEEL THE

SAME WAY YOU SEALED RECORDS FOR -- TO MAKE AN ADVERSE DETERMINATION,

THEY WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS LAW.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO YOU'RE SAYING SEALED

RECORDS. SO, AGAIN, IF I'M A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, I LOOKED ON LINE AND

SEE IN A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE THAT YOU WERE CONVICTED OF ONE OF THE

CRIMES. AND I SAY IN THE INTERVIEW, LISTEN, I SAW YOU WERE CONVICTED OF

THIS CRIME, YOU DID JAIL TIME, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH HIRING YOU. IS

THAT THE SAME THING? IS THAT LOOKING INTO SEALED RECORDS OR IS IT LITERALLY

HAVING TO ACCESS THE SEALED RECORDS FROM THE STATE?

MS. CRUZ: SO EARLIER OUR COLLEAGUE MS. SIMON LAID

OUT IN ARTICLE 23 OF -- A -- OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW, I'M SORRY, OF

CORRECTIONS LAW. THERE'S A TEST THAT WOULD HAVE TO -- THAT THE

EMPLOYER WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH IN ORDER TO MAKE A DETERMINATION

THAT IS NOT THEN DETERMINED TO BE ADVERSE AND IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. AND IF IT'S FOUND IN VIOLATION OF

LAW AFTER THEY GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE THING AND AGAIN, I'M NOT AN

ATTORNEY SO A LOT OF THESE WORDS GET LOST ON ME SO I'M TRYING TO ASK IT

FROM THE --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: THE LAYPERSON.

MR. DURSO: -- THE EVERYDAY PERSON TRYING TO

UNDERSTAND THIS. WHO THEN ENFORCES THAT AND WHAT THE PENALTIES WOULD

BE?

MS. CRUZ: THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. AND -- AND IS THERE MONETARY

PENALTIES INVOLVED WITH IT? WHAT -- WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES OR AT LEAST

SOME OF THEM?

MS. CRUZ: YES, THERE ARE. WE BELIEVE IT MAY BE

AROUND $50,000, BUT DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT. BUT THERE ARE MONETARY.

MR. DURSO: AROUND 50,000.

MS. CRUZ: YEAH.

MR. DURSO: OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: I THINK IT'S UP TO.

MR. DURSO: UP TO, OKAY. SO NOW MOVING ON TO --

AND I KNOW MR. ANGELINO SPECIFICALLY BROUGHT IT UP BUT I JUST WANTED

TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INTO IT.

WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT SOMEONE BEING HIRED

ESSENTIALLY IN A SCHOOL OR WHETHER IT WAS PRIVATE OR PUBLIC. AND YOU

HAD SAID THAT -- I BELIEVE YOU HAD SAID THAT THE -- EXCUSE ME, THE

REGULAR AND SUBSTANTIAL CONTACT, RIGHT?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. DURSO: WHAT CONSTITUTES REGULAR AND

SUBSTANTIAL CONTACT AND WHO DETERMINES THAT DEPENDING UPON THE

INDUSTRY OR JOB?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: THE EMPLOYER WOULD DETERMINE WHO HAS

REGULAR AND SUBSTANTIAL CONTACT.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO IF I'M A SCHOOL AND I WANT TO

HIRE SOMEONE AS A CUSTODIAN OR A HALL MONITOR OR WHATEVER THE JOB IS

AND THEY'RE NOT A LICENSED TEACHER OR TEACHER'S AIDE, I THEN AS THE

EMPLOYER DECIDE WHAT IS CONSIDERED REGULAR AND SUBSTANTIAL CONTACT FOR

THAT PERSON? SO AGAIN, IF I'M THE SCHOOL, I COULD SAY I'M NOT HIRING YOU

BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE WHAT I FEEL IS REGULAR SUBSTANTIAL CONTACT?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, LET ME CHANGE THAT. IT WOULD BE, I

WOULD LIKE TO HIRE YOU AND BECAUSE YOU HAVE REGULAR AND SUBSTANTIAL

CONTACT WITH CHILDREN, WE ARE GOING TO DO A BACKGROUND CHECK THAT

THEN WOULD GIVE US THE INFORMATION AND THAT WOULD ACTUALLY NOT SEAL

THE PERSON'S RECORD PERIOD BECAUSE OF THE -- OF THE REGULAR AND

SUBSTANTIAL CONTACT AND IT'S AN EXCEPTION. THAT INFORMATION THEN COMES

BACK AND THE EMPLOYER CAN MAKE THE DETERMINATION THAT THEY NEED TO.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO THAT WOULD TRIGGER THAT SO

THAT THEY CAN GET THOSE RECORDS.

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MR. DURSO: AND THEN THEY COULD MAKE THAT

DETERMINATION ON THEIR OWN.

MS. CRUZ: YES. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TEST THAT

OUR COLLEAGUE JO ANNE SIMON SET OUT EARLIER.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. AND AGAIN, MOST OF THAT GOT

LOST ON ME. I LOSE TRACK OF THAT BUT --

MS. CRUZ: WE'D BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU THE -- THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

LINK LATER.

MR. DURSO: OKAY, PERFECT. I APPRECIATE THAT. HOLD

ON. I HAVE MORE. SO, AND THEN MR. RA ACTUALLY HAD BROUGHT UP CAMP

COUNSELORS, RIGHT, OR AT A CAMP, RIGHT? A CAMP COUNSELOR'S NOT

LICENSED. A LOT OF THEM WHETHER THEY VOLUNTEER, WHETHER THEY'RE

MINIMUM WAGE, WHETHER THEY'RE JUST SOME WORKING A SECOND JOB FOR

THE SUMMER. AGAIN, YOU SAID THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT COULD NOT BE

-- THEY COULDN'T REQUEST THOSE RECORDS IN THOSE INDUSTRIES?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, RIGHT NOW THEY REQUEST -- THEY CAN

DO SORA (INAUDIBLE) CHECKS WHICH IS THE SEXUAL -- THE REGISTRY, THE

SEX CRIME REGISTRY.

MR. DURSO: SO ONLY -- SO ONLY IF YOU'RE ON A -- ON

A -- ON A REGISTRY FOR A SEX OFFENSE.

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT THAT THEY HAVE

RIGHT NOW.

MR. DURSO: THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT. SO ANYTHING

UNDER THAT, AND -- AND ONE OF THEM BEING THE ENDANGERMENT OF A CHILD,

RIGHT, THAT COULD BE SEALED AND YOU COULD TECHNICALLY WORK AT A CAMP,

CORRECT?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: SO RIGHT NOW THEY DON'T DO ANY CHECKS

EXCEPT FOR SORA. SO THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO DO ANY CHECKS.

MR. DURSO: RIGHT.

MS. CRUZ: THEY CAN GET THE PUBLIC RECORDS AND IF

THE RECORD IS SEALED PURSUANT TO THOSE PUBLIC RECORDS, THEN THAT'S WHAT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THEY WOULD GET. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THIS POSSIBLY SOUNDS LIKE

SOMETHING WE MAY WANT TO TAKE UP ON A -- ON A DIFFERENT BILL.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. YOU MEAN AN AMENDMENT?

MS. CRUZ: NOT ON MINE.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO -- SO LET ME GET THAT

STRAIGHT. SO JUST USING THAT SPECIFIC EXAMPLE, WORKING AS A CAMP

COUNSELOR IN A PRIVATE CAMP, UNLESS YOU ARE ON A SEX REGISTRY, RIGHT, BUT

YOUR RECORD HAS BEEN SEALED FROM SOMETHING LIKE THE ENDANGERMENT OF

A CHILD, THAT RECORD -- AND IF IT'S SEALED, YOU CANNOT REQUEST THOSE

RECORDS.

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: CAN YOU REPEAT YOUR QUESTION FOR ME?

MR. DURSO: I'M SORRY. YOU HAD SAID IF YOU'RE

WORKING IN -- THIS -- THIS BILL DOES NOT COVER IF YOU ARE ON A SEX

REGISTRY, CORRECT? IF YOU ARE ON A --

MS. CRUZ: WELL, YEAH. WE DON'T SEAL THOSE RECORDS,

WE DON'T TOUCH THEM.

MR. DURSO: RIGHT, EXACTLY. BUT, USING THE

EXAMPLE OF WORKING AT A CAMP WITH CHILDREN, IF ONE OF THE PROVISIONS

THAT THIS DOES COVER IS THE ENDANGERMENT OF A CHILD, CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. DURSO: SO NOW IF I'M RUNNING A CAMP, I OWN A

CAMP, I'M -- I'M THE MANAGER AT A CAMP. SOMEONE COMES IN, I WANT TO

REQUEST A BACKGROUND CHECK ON THEM, THEIR RECORD WOULD BE SEALED

FROM THE ENDANGERMENT OF A CHILD, CORRECT? NOT -- I -- I UNDERSTAND --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: IF THE TIME HAD PASSED.

MR. DURSO: IF THE TIME HAS PAST. SO, AGAIN, IF I

OWN A CAMP I CAN END UP HIRING SOMEBODY THAT HAS BEEN CONVICTED AND

ACTUALLY GONE TO PRISON FOR THE ENDANGERMENT OF A CHILD.

MS. CRUZ: THEY COULD NOW.

MR. DURSO: THEY COULD NOW.

MS. CRUZ: YEAH.

MR. DURSO: RIGHT, BUT I COULD ALSO DO A

BACKGROUND CHECK NOW, IT WOULDN'T BE SEALED.

MS. CRUZ: IF YOU'RE WILLING TO PAY THE $95 WHICH --

MR. DURSO: WELL, I'M ALSO NOT WILLING TO SEND MY

KID TO A CAMP WHERE --

MS. CRUZ: NO, BUT I MEAN YOU AS THE EMPLOYER.

MR. DURSO: NO, NO, I UNDERSTAND.

MS. CRUZ: AND THAT'S YOUR PREROGATIVE AS A PARENT.

I'M -- I'M NOT SURE HOW MANY PARENTS ACTUALLY KNOW THAT THAT CHECK IS

NOT CURRENTLY DONE FOR A LOT OF PLACES.

MR. DURSO: SEE, YOU JUST GAVE ME ANOTHER IDEA FOR

SOMETHING BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THAT SHOULD.

JUST -- I BELIEVE I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION. SO

DISCUSSING IT WITH MY COLLEAGUE, AGAIN, HE WENT THROUGH A WHOLE

LAUNDRY LIST OF CRIMES THAT ARE, AGAIN, CAN HAVE YOUR RECORDS SEALED.

ONE OF THEM SPECIFICALLY WAS ENDANGERING A CHILD. THE OTHER

OBVIOUSLY WAS MANSLAUGHTER. BUT MY QUESTION IS WHY -- AND AGAIN, IT'S

OBVIOUSLY VERY -- I'M BEING VERY SPECIFIC WHEN IT TALKS ABOUT CHILDREN,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

RIGHT? WHY WAS THAT PROVISION LEFT IN THERE?

MS. CRUZ: I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD.

MR. DURSO: NO, I APOLOGIZE.

MS. CRUZ: SAY THAT AGAIN.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO, AGAIN, WHEN YOU SPEAK OF

MY COLLEAGUE ABOUT A LIST OF CRIMES THAT COULD BE SEALED, RIGHT, AND HE

HAD ASKED AND SPECIFICALLY BROUGHT UP A WHOLE BUNCH THAT ARE -- GET

SEALED. I'M BEING VERY SPECIFIC WHEN IT TALKS ABOUT ENDANGERING

CHILDREN. WHY WAS THAT FELT THAT THAT WAS LEFT TO BE IN THERE THAT THAT

RECORD COULD BE SEALED ON THAT?

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: THE CRIME BASED DISTINCTIONS ARE ONLY

FOR THE LIFETIME PAROLE CRIMES.

MR. DURSO: I UNDERSTAND THAT BUT, AGAIN, WITH THE

BILL BEING DRAFTED, YOU COULD HAVE SAID THAT THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS

THAT COULD NOT HAVE ITS RECORD SEALED --

MS. CRUZ: AS I MENTIONED TO MANY OF YOUR

COLLEAGUES BEFORE, WE'VE CONSULTED WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE'VE

CONSULTED WITH DISTRICT ATTORNEYS, WE'VE CONSULTED WITH CHILDREN AND

VICTIM SPECIALISTS AND THIS IS WHERE WE'VE LANDED.

MR. DURSO: OKAY, THANK YOU. AND ONE LAST

QUESTION. HOUSING. WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT SO, I JUST WANTED MORE

SPECIFICALLY FOR SUBURBAN AREAS, LET'S JUST SAY. IF YOU HAVE A RENTAL IN

YOUR HOME AND, AGAIN, YOU CANNOT ASK FOR SEALED RECORDS, CORRECT?

ANYTHING THAT FALLS UNDER THIS. IF YOU'RE A LANDLORD, RIGHT, AND YOU WANT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SOME, YOU KNOW, RENT A PORTION OF YOUR HOUSE

WHETHER YOU'RE A SENIOR CITIZEN AND YOU NEED A SECOND INCOME,

WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY OF THESE CRIMES THAT FALL

UNDER THIS, THEY WILL BE SEALED AND AS A LANDLORD YOU CANNOT GET THEM,

CORRECT?

MS. CRUZ: I APOLOGIZE FOR THIS BUT CAN YOU REPEAT

YOUR QUESTION?

MR. DURSO: SURE.

MS. CRUZ: SO I -- I CAUGHT UP TO THE PART OF YOU

MAY BE A SENIOR CITIZEN, YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO RENT.

MR. DURSO: I HAVE NO PROBLEM ASKING THE QUESTION

AGAIN. I PROBABLY ASKED YOU TEN QUESTIONS THAT YOU'VE ALREADY

ANSWERED. SO IF I'M A LANDLORD, I'M A SENIOR CITIZEN, I AM SOMEONE THAT

NEEDS A LITTLE EXTRA INCOME AND I GO TO RENT OUT A PORTION OF MY HOME,

SECOND FLOOR, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A

BUILDING, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A -- OBVIOUSLY WHEN STUFF CAME UP

ABOUT NYCHA, I'M TALKING ABOUT A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME OR A

TWO-FAMILY HOME THAT I SPECIFICALLY OWN. AS THE LANDLORD, ANY OF THESE

CRIMES THAT FALL UNDER THAT THEY COULD BE SEALED, CORRECT? I COULD NOT

ASK FOR THOSE RECORDS.

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: THE TYPE OF HOUSING THAT YOU DESCRIBED

IS NOT COVERED BY THE DEFINITION OF HOUSING ACCOMODATION WHERE THEY

WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THAT -- THAT KIND OF INFORMATION.

MR. DURSO: SO A PRIVATE RESIDENCE, SINGLE-FAMILY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

HOME IS -- IS NOT WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THIS BILL. IN OTHER WORDS, I OWN

MY HOME, I HAVE A SECOND FLOOR, I WANT TO RENT IT OUT, I CAN ASK YOU

AND/OR TRY AND RECEIVE RECORDS. AGAIN, SEALED RECORDS DON'T MATTER ON

THIS.

MS. CRUZ: I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND

YOUR QUESTION.

MR. DURSO: I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE I'M ASKING THIS

THE RIGHT WAY, IT'S OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: SO, LOOK AT THAT. MR. SPEAKER, MAY I TRY

TO ANSWER THE QUESTION? I KNOW WE -- I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET

IT ON THE RECORD. SO YOUR QUESTION IS YOU RENT TO ME, YOU OWN A

TWO-FAMILY HOME. CAN YOU DO A BACKGROUND CHECK ON ME AND WHAT

INFORMATION WOULD COME UP, RIGHT?

MR. DURSO: CORRECT, YES. THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ. I

APPRECIATE IT.

MS. CRUZ: SO BECAUSE IT IS A TWO-FAMILY HOME YOU

CAN CHOOSE WHO COMES INTO YOUR HOME. YOU'D BE ABLE TO DO THE

BACKGROUND CHECK AND MAKE THE CHOICE THAT YOU NEED.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ. I APPRECIATE

YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS, THANK YOU.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS: MR. RIVERA.

MR. RIVERA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. DOES THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUESTION?

MS. CRUZ: OH, YEAH, SORRY.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: I DO, MR. RIVERA.

MR. RIVERA: THANK YOU. I'LL GET INTO A BIT MORE

WHY I'M ASKING THIS QUESTION, BUT IN RESEARCHING THE BILL I'M FINDING A

PRETTY INTERESTING GROUP OF SUPPORTERS THAT YOU HAVE FROM IT.

HISTORICALLY BILLS THAT ARE PERCEIVED TO BE CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILLS ARE NOT

SUPPORTED BY ENTITIES LIKE THE ROCHESTER CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, THE

BUSINESS COUNCIL OF WESTCHESTER, THE BUSINESS COUNCIL OF NEW YORK

STATE, J.P. MORGAN CHASE, MICROSOFT, VERIZON, CON EDISON, NATIONAL

GRID. CAN YOU SPEAK TO WHY THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE HAVE SUPPORTED THIS

BILL?

MS. CRUZ: JOBS. IT'S THE MAIN REASON. I THINK A LOT

OF THESE FOLKS IN -- IN -- IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR HAVE SEEN THAT THERE ARE

JOBS TO BE FILLED AND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO WORK AND THEY UNDERSTAND, I

THINK AT THE VERY CORE OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GIVE PEOPLE A

CHANCE TO GO WORK.

MR. RIVERA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS: ON THE BILL.

MR. RIVERA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU KNOW,

PRIOR TO COMING TO THE STATE ASSEMBLY I HAD REALLY TWO JOBS. ONE WAS

WORKING IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND ONE RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE WAS IN

FINANCE. I DECIDED WHEN I GRADUATED THAT I WANT TO PURSUE PUBLIC

SERVICE AND MY FATHER SAID YOU'RE CRAZY, GO MAKE SOME REAL MONEY.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SO I WENT INTO FINANCE. IRONICALLY ALMOST 20 YEARS LATER HE AND I ARE

BOTH ELECTED OFFICIALS AND MY MOTHER IS SUPREMELY DISCONTENT. I -- I

GOT INTO FINANCE AND I QUICKLY BECAME A -- A (INAUDIBLE) REGISTERED LSP

AND I BECAME A BRANCH MANAGER. I SAY ALL THIS BECAUSE IN MY

DAY-TO-DAY WHAT I WORKED WITH WAS SMALL BUSINESSES. THERE'S BEEN A

LOT SAID TODAY ABOUT SMALL BUSINESSES, ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT BE HELD

UP ON OR WHAT THEY MIGHT BE CONFUSED ABOUT OR WHAT THEY MIGHT NOT BE

ABLE TO DO, BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT SMALL

BUSINESS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IS A WORKFORCE. WORKFORCE OFTEN IS THEIR

BIGGEST EXPENSE. WORKFORCE IS OFTEN THEIR BIGGEST ISSUE WHEN THEY

WANT TO PROGRESS. AND WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY IS REALLY THAT WE'RE

ADDRESSING THE NEED OF BUSINESSES. THE REASON THAT ENTITIES AS BIG AS

J.P. MORGAN CHASE OR SMALL BUSINESSES IN MY DISTRICT HAVE CALLED ME

ABOUT THIS BILL IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE A REAL PROBLEM. AND IF THERE'S

ANYTHING THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO HERE IN ALBANY IS ADDRESS

PROBLEMS. WE CAN APPROACH THE ISSUE OF EMPLOYMENT AND WAGES A

DOZEN DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY THIS IS JUST ANOTHER WAY

WE'RE DOING IT. THERE'S A REASON WHY THEY'RE SUPPORTIVE OF THIS.

THERE'S A REASON WHY WE DO THIS. RECENTLY I READ OUT OF PURE

COINCIDENCE AN OP-ED IN THE BUFFALO NEWS AND IT WAS PENNED BY A LOCAL

BUSINESS OWNER THAT I'VE NEVER HEARD OF BEFORE, WHO OWNED A BUSINESS

THAT I'D NEVER HEARD OF BEFORE CALLED ASSET RECOVERY COMPANY OF

AMERICA, A COMPANY THAT DOES BUSINESS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, GROWING,

THREE SEPARATE FACILITIES, ALMOST 100 EMPLOYEES AND I'LL READ YOU WHAT

THE BUSINESS OWNER SAID. HE SAID BY PROVIDING INDIVIDUALS WITH A PATH

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TO RECORD SEALING, WE CAN HELP BREAK DOWN BARRIERS ASSOCIATED WITH

CRIMINAL RECORD AND GAIN ACCESS TO A WIDER POOL OF TALENT, PROMOTE

ECONOMIC GROWTH, REDUCE RECIDIVISM AND MOST IMPORTANTLY STRENGTHEN

OUR COMMUNITIES, YOU KNOW, TO GAIN ACCESS TO A WIDER POOL OF TALENT,

PROMOTE ECONOMIC GROWTH AND REDUCE RECIDIVISM AND MOST

IMPORTANTLY STRENGTHEN OUR COMMUNITIES. EARLIER A QUESTION WAS

ASKED, WELL, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, IF WE DO THIS EMPLOYERS WILL STILL BE

ABLE TO EMPLOY PEOPLE OR NOT EMPLOY PEOPLE OR WHAT'S PREVENTING

EMPLOYERS FROM -- FROM HIRING PEOPLE. THE QUESTION REALLY ISN'T WHAT

IS -- WHAT'S PREVENTING EMPLOYERS FROM HIRING PEOPLE WITH RECORDS, THE

QUESTION IS OR THE REALIZATION IS THAT PEOPLE WITH RECORDS ARE RELUCTANT

TO APPLY FOR JOBS TO BEGIN WITH. WHAT THIS DOES IS NOT REMOVE A BARRIER

WHEREIN WHICH AN EMPLOYER CAN NOW HIRE SOMEBODY. WHAT THIS DOES

IS IT REMOVES THE STIGMA AND ALLOWS EMPLOYEES OR POTENTIAL EMPLOYEES

TO ACTUALLY SEEK EMPLOYMENT. WHAT ASSEMBLYMEMBER GIBBS SAID IN

HIS BEAUTIFUL STORY WAS THAT HE WAS RELUCTANT TO PURSUE EMPLOYMENT

BECAUSE OF A RECORD. AND THE REALITY IS IS THAT IS THE SAME STORY THAT

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE GO THROUGH. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT

OF LENSES WE BRING TO THIS WORK AND THIS IS JUST MINE TODAY, BUT -- BUT AT

THE END OF IT, I'D SAY THAT WHAT I'M TAKING AWAY FROM THE ENTIRE

DISCUSSION IS THAT THE ANSWER FOR ADDRESSING RECIDIVISM SIMPLY PUT IN

ONE WORD IS EMPLOYMENT. PEOPLE WILL NOT PURSUE CRIME IF THEY HAVE A

LIVING WAGE TO COME AND BRING HOME. FAMILIES WILL BE RESTORED WITH

THIS. HOUSES WILL BE BOUGHT WITH THIS. BUSINESSES WILL THRIVE WITH THIS

AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GOING TO FLOURISH WITH THIS. SO, THANK YOU

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS: MS. BYRNES.

MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU. WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: CERTAINLY.

MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU. JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS

TO FOLLOW UP ON. YOU HAD MENTIONED JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO TO MR.

DURSO THAT IN THE SCENARIO OF A TWO-FAMILY -- ONE HOME, BUT IT'S A

TWO-FAMILY HOME, ELDERLY PERSON'S JUST RENTING OUT THE OTHER HALF THAT

THAT PERSON WOULD BE ALLOWED TO GET SEALED RECORDS TO DO A RECORD

CHECK. AND MY QUESTION IS, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED --

MS. CRUZ: I WANT TO -- I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE

ARE CORRECT. IT'S NOT THAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO GET THOSE RECORDS. IT'S THAT

THEY'RE ALLOWED TO PICK AND CHOOSE. SO THEY WOULD GET -- IF THEY GET

THE RECORD AND THEY CHOOSE TO NOT RENT IT TO A PERSON THAT HAS A RECORD,

THERE'S NOTHING IN THE LAW PROHIBITING THEM FROM DOING THAT. VERSUS IN

DIFFERENT KIND OF HOUSING AS DEFINED BY THE LAW I BELIEVE IT'S SIX OR

MORE UNITS, YOU WOULD HAVE CERTAIN LIMITATIONS. YOU CAN'T JUST DENY

SOMEONE FROM -- FROM RENTING TO THEM.

MS. BYRNES: BUT THEY -- THEY WOULD HAVE A RIGHT

TO SEE THE SEALED RECORDS.

MS. CRUZ: NO.

MS. BYRNES: WELL, HOW ELSE WOULD THEY KNOW IF

THEY DID OR DIDN'T WANT TO? I THOUGHT YOU JUST TOLD -- SAID TO MR. DURSO

THAT --

MS. CRUZ: YOU CAN -- YOU CAN ASK FOR THE PUBLIC

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RECORDS, BUT YOU DON'T GET ACCESS TO THE SEALED RECORDS. SO THERE'S TWO

KINDS OF RECORDS THAT EXIST. THERE'S FINGERPRINT-BASED --

MS. BYRNES: OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: -- AND THERE'S PUBLIC RECORD-BASED.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. SO THEN FOR CLARIFICATION,

WHICH WAS GOING TO BE MY QUESTION UNTIL YOU KIND OF HAD A VERSION OF

IT, IF AN ELDERLY PERSON WHO JUST WANTS TO RENT A ROOM IN THEIR OWN

HOME, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE UP A LITTLE

BIT OF MONEY, THEY'RE ONLY LIVING ON SOCIAL SECURITY. WE ACTUALLY HAD

THESE SAME CONVERSATIONS BEFORE WHEN LANDLORDS WERE HAVING TROUBLE

GETTING RENT DURING THE PANDEMIC. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY

NEIGHBORHOOD, IN MY AREA THAT DO THIS. THEY WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO

SEE THE SEALED RECORDS. SO THEY WOULD HAVE NO --

MS. CRUZ: AFTER THE RECORDS WERE SEALED, THEY

WOULD ONLY GET THE INFORMATION THAT COMES THROUGH THE PUBLIC RECORDS.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT, WHICH IS GOING TO BE

OBVIOUSLY VERY -- PROBABLY MORE LIMITED. SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE

ABLE TO MAKE A INTELLIGENT DECISION WHETHER OR NOT HAVING A STRANGER

COME INTO THEIR -- LITERALLY COME INTO THEIR HOME IS SAFE OR NOT BECAUSE

THEY WILL -- THEY'LL BE A VOID, FOR LACK OF A BETTER EXPRESSION, A VOID OF

INFORMATION THAT THEY'RE BEING SUPPLIED.

MS. CRUZ: WELL, I THINK I WOULD ARGUE THAT THEY

COULD GET OTHER TYPE OF INFORMATION TO HELP THEM MAKE THE DECISION

THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE, LIKE A CREDIT CHECK, WHICH I'M NOT A GREAT FAN

OF, BUT IF THE PERSON'S WORKING, IF THE PERSON HAS A GOOD RENTAL HISTORY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WITH THE PRIOR LANDLORD, ET CETERA.

MS. BYRNES: I THOUGHT WE WERE ALLOWED TO ASK

THOSE THINGS PRIOR TO LANDLORDS. BUT ANYWAY, MOVING ON --

MS. CRUZ: WELL, YOU CAN ASK FOR REFERENCES.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. SO THE ELDERLY PERSON IS --

IS -- THERE'S GOING TO BE A VOID AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW. HOW --

MY -- MY QUESTION THOUGH IS, IS THIS GOING TO CREATE EVEN MORE OF A

HOUSING SHORTAGE WHEN PEOPLE KNOWING THAT THEY'RE BEING POTENTIALLY

DENIED INFORMATION ARE GOING TO INSTEAD NOT RENT ROOMS IN THEIR HOMES

OR IN SMALLER UNITS BECAUSE THEY'RE CONCERNED THAT THEY DON'T KNOW

WHO'S COMING IN?

MS. CRUZ: I CAN'T TELL THE FUTURE.

MS. BYRNES: AND -- BUT IN FEDERAL HOUSING

FEDERAL HOUSING WILL BE ALLOWED TO KNOW BUT OTHER FORMS OF HOUSING

WON'T, LANDLORDS WON'T.

MS. CRUZ: NOT ALL OF THEM.

MS. BYRNES: SO I THINK YOU SAID FEDERAL HOUSING

OPERATED UNDER A DIFFERENT STANDARD.

MS. CRUZ: YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. SO FOR -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO

LIVE IN FEDERAL OR FEDERALLY-SUBSIDIZED HOUSING, THAT LANDLORD WOULD

KNOW THAT INFORMATION, BUT YET YOU'RE GOING TO DENY THAT SAME

INFORMATION BASE TO OTHER LANDLORDS.

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: WE ALREADY HAVE SOME OF THOSE -- THOSE

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BARS THAT -- THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING IN THE APPLICATION BASE SEALING THAT'S

CURRENTLY IN THE LAW. YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALREADY INFORMATION THAT

PEOPLE CAN'T GET WHEN -- WHEN THEY'RE A SMALL LANDLORD AND CHOOSE TO

CHECK THE PUBLIC RECORDS.

MS. BYRNES: YEAH. WELL, I MEAN THAT -- I DON'T

KNOW IF THEY STILL DO IT BUT YEARS AGO PEOPLE WOULD JUST COME UP RIGHT

TO THE ROCHESTER POLICE DEPARTMENT AND CITY COURT AND LITERALLY ASK

FOR RECORD CHECKS RIGHT THEN AND THERE. PROBABLY IT'S GOTTEN A LITTLE

MORE COMPUTERIZED SINCE TIMES HAVE GONE BY.

LET'S TALK FOR A MINUTE ABOUT EMPLOYERS. WE WERE

TALKING BEFORE ABOUT SCHOOL BUS DRIVERS AND YOU INDICATED PUBLIC --

PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAD ACCESS TO RECORDS, PRIVATE SCHOOLS THERE WAS AN

AVENUE TO ALLOW THEM TO HAVE ACCESS?

MS. CRUZ: IT'S THE SAME.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CRUZ: THE -- THE AVENUE THAT I BELIEVE YOU'RE

SPEAKING OF IS FOR ANYONE WHO'S NOT -- WHEN WE THINK OF A SCHOOL WE'RE

ALL THINKING TEACHERS. AND I THINK THE QUESTION FROM AN EARLIER

COLLEAGUE WAS, YOU KNOW, WHAT ABOUT A CUSTODIAN --

MS. BYRNES: BUS DRIVERS.

MS. CRUZ: YEAH. SO IT'S NOT --

MS. BYRNES: LET'S TALK ABOUT BUS DRIVERS.

MS. CRUZ: YEAH, SO IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT ABOUT THE

INSTITUTION ITSELF BECAUSE SCHOOLS ARE SCHOOLS, EITHER THEY'RE GOING TO BE

TREATED THE SAME. IT'S -- IT'S IF THE SCHOOL DETERMINES THAT THIS IS

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SOMEONE WHO HAS CONSISTENT CONTACT --

MS. BYRNES: WITH CHILDREN --

MS. CRUZ: -- CONSISTENT AND REGULAR CONTACT THEY'D

BE ABLE TO GET IT. THEY'D BE ABLE TO REQUEST IT IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

MS. BYRNES: IN MY AREA SOME OF THE SCHOOLS OWN

THEIR OWN SCHOOL BUSES, BUT MANY OF THEM RENT BUSES AND DRIVERS FROM

A PRIVATE COMPANY. SO THEY JUST HAVE A CONTRACT WITH A PRIVATE

COMPANY THAT THEN SUPPLIES SCHOOL BUSES. IS THAT COMPANY GOING TO BE

DENIED THE SAME INFORMATION THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO THE

SCHOOL?

MS. CRUZ: USUALLY IT'S EMPLOYEES AND CONTRACTORS

WITH THE SCHOOL SO THEY WOULDN'T BE.

MS. BYRNES: WOULD OR WOULD NOT?

MS. CRUZ: THEY WOULD NOT BE DENIED ACCESS.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. RATHER THAN USING DOUBLE

NEGATIVES THEY WOULD -- THEY WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO --

MS. CRUZ: YES, THEY WOULD NOT BE -- THEY WOULD

HAVE ACCESS. THEY WOULD NOT BE DENIED ACCESS BECAUSE THEY ARE

CONTRACTING WITH THE SCHOOL.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. NOW YOU INDICATED THE

RECORDS LIKE DWAIS AS WELL AS DWIS AND OTHER V&T MISDEMEANORS

WOULD BE SEALED. WOULD THAT SAME PRIVATE BUS COMPANY HAVE A RIGHT

TO KNOW THAT THE PERSON THAT THEY WERE CONSIDERING HIRING HAD A DWAI

OR DWI CONVICTION?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. BYRNES: BUT THOSE RECORDS ARE SEALED.

MS. CRUZ: YEAH, BUT NOT FOR THAT PURPOSE.

MS. BYRNES: SO FOR WHAT PURPOSE WOULD THEY HAVE

A RIGHT TO RECORDS?

MS. CRUZ: SO WE ARE IMAGINING, BECAUSE I WANT TO

GIVE YOU CLARITY, A UNIVERSE WHERE WE HAVE A BUS DRIVER WHO IS FROM A

PRIVATE CONTRACTING COMPANY --

MS. BYRNES: YES.

MS. CRUZ: -- AND THAT COMPANY IS CONTRACTED OUT BY

A SCHOOL. BECAUSE THAT DRIVER OR THAT COMPANY IS CONTRACTED OUT BY THE

SCHOOL, THEY FALL WITHIN THE EXCEPTIONS OF ENTITIES WE WOULD ALLOW

ACCESS TO BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING WITH CHILDREN AND VULNERABLE

POPULATIONS AND THROUGH A SCHOOL.

MS. BYRNES: OKAY. LET'S TAKE THE SCHOOL OUT OF IT,

BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE BUSES ARE ALSO RENTED OTHER TIMES FOR TOURS,

FINGER LAKES TOURS ARE A REAL BIG BUSINESS AND -- OR WEDDINGS AND

STUFF LIKE THAT OR -- OR EVEN THINGS LIKE LIMOS, LIKE LIMO COMPANIES. WE

RECENTLY HAD A VERY, VERY TRAGIC SITUATION WHERE THERE WERE SOME VERY

MULTIPLE DEATHS THAT WERE JUST SENTENCING ON RECENTLY. BUT WOULD A

PRIVATE COMPANY BE ABLE TO HAVE -- THAT WAS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH A

SCHOOL, ALSO HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE THE DWAI AND V&T HISTORY OF -- OR --

OR ANY OTHER SEALED RECORDS OF ANY --

MS. CRUZ: I ASSUME IN YOUR -- I ASSUME IN YOUR

SCENARIO THESE DRIVERS WOULD HAVE WHAT IS CALLED A CDL LICENSE.

MS. BYRNES: CORRECT.

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MS. CRUZ: AND THEREFORE THE COMPANY THAT'S HIRING

THEM OR THE AGENCY THAT'S MOVING THE PROCESS THROUGH, IF YOU WILL,

WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THAT INFORMATION.

MS. BYRNES: JUST BECAUSE OF A CDL LICENSE?

MS. CRUZ: FEDERAL LAW REQUIRES THAT.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. SO AGAIN, THE

DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN WHAT'S FEDERAL, ALLOWED BY FEDERAL LAW, AND

STATE. HOW IS AND HOW ARE -- 'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF TIMES WHERE

FEDERAL CAN GO ONE WAY, SO THE STATE HAS TO GO ALONG WITH IT AND OTHERS

MAY BE PRECLUDED. HOW IS THE AUTHORITY THAT'S ACTUALLY HOLDING ALL OF

THESE RECORDS --

MS. CRUZ: I'M -- I'M SORRY, MR. SPEAKER. I CAN'T

HEAR VERY WELL. CAN WE LET OUR COLLEAGUES KNOW. THANK YOU. SORRY.

GO AHEAD.

MS. BYRNES: NO, THANK YOU, BECAUSE IT IS

IMPORTANT TO ME. THANK YOU. WHEN WE HAVE SOME RULES FOR SOME

ORGANIZATIONS AND DIFFERENT RULES FOR OTHERS, HOW IS THE AUTHORITY THAT IS

CONTROLLING ALL OF THESE RECORDS, HOW ARE THEY POSSIBLY GOING TO KNOW

WHEN IT'S OKAY TO RELEASE THEM TO ONE BUT NOT TO RELEASE THEM TO

ANOTHER, OR WHAT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT NUANCES ARE?

MS. CRUZ: DCJS HAS A SPECIFIC IDENTIFIER THAT LINKS

TO -- TO THEIR VALIDITY TO ACCESS TO THAT RECORD. AND DCJS IS GOING TO BE

PART OF THE EQUATION OF -- OF -- OF ENTITIES, IF YOU WILL, THAT MAKE A

DECISION ABOUT THE AUTOMATIC SEALING AND PROCESS THAT -- THAT MAKES

THAT PRACTICE HAPPEN.

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MS. BYRNES: OKAY, ALL RIGHT.

MS. CRUZ: AND I ALSO -- I ALSO HAD A FEELING THAT I

THINK I KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THE FEDERAL PIECE, WE HAVE

MADE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT INTERFERING WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S

REQUEST, REQUIREMENT, REGULATION AND THEY ARE PART, EVEN THOUGH WE

TECHNICALLY DON'T HAVE TO CARVE THEM OUT BECAUSE THEIR THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT AND THEY SUPERCEDE US, WE HAVE DONE SO IN THE LEGISLATION

TO MAKE IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT WE ARE NOT GOING BEYOND WHAT THEY

REQUIRE US TO DO.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IF I

-- IF I COULD BE HEARD ON THE BILL?

ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS: ON THE BILL.

MS. BYRNES: YOU KNOW, I'M JUST VERY CONCERNED

THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CREATING A SCENARIO WHERE IF YOU LIVE IN FEDERAL

HOUSING, JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, IF YOU LIVE IN FEDERAL HOUSING THERE'S BEEN

RECORD CHECKS, THEY DO OR DON'T KNOW WHO THEY'RE ALLOWING IN,

PRESUMABLY ARE DOING IT IN A WAY TO ENSURE THE SAFETY NOT JUST OF -- OF

THE INDIVIDUAL WHO WANTS TO MOVE INTO AND LIVE AT A VARIOUS APARTMENT

OR APARTMENT PROJECT OR HOME, BUT ALSO FOR THE -- THE SAFETY OF THE OTHER

RESIDENTS, MANY OF WHOM MAY BE ELDERLY, OLDER, VULNERABLE IN ANY

NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS OR DEGREES FROM AGE OF YOUTH TO -- TO BEING

ELDERLY, BUT YET WE'RE SAYING THAT OTHER -- OTHER LANDLORDS WHO JUST HAVE

-- ARE SMALLER LANDLORDS OR WHO ARE NOT FALLING UNDER THIS FEDERAL

UMBRELLA DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO THIS INFORMATION, DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO

KNOW WHO THEY DO OR DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE LIVING IN THEIR HOME, OR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE PERSON WHO -- ELDERLY PERSON WHO'S RENTING A (INAUDIBLE) ROOM HAS

NO IDEA WHO MAY BE MOVING INTO THE APARTMENT NEXT DOOR BECAUSE

THERE'S A VOID OF INFORMATION. IT'S TWO-TIERED AND IT JUST SEEMS VERY

UNFORTUNATE THAT THE -- THE CARVE-OUT FOR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, I

UNDERSTAND THE PRIORITIES OF THE FEDERAL LAW, BUT THERE'S A CARVING OUT

SO THAT ONE SEGMENT OF SOCIETY HAS ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND HOPEFULLY

SOME ASSURANCE THAT THE SITUATION WILL BE BENEFICIAL FOR ALL CONCERNED,

AND ANOTHER GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS IS VOID OF THAT INFORMATION. AND I'M

JUST VERY CONCERNED THAT WHEN WE, AS A BODY AND AS A STATE KEEP

TALKING ABOUT THE LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THAT WHEN WE MAKE IT

HARDER TO HAVE A COMFORT LEVEL WITH WHO WE RENT TO AND HOW WE DO IT,

WE MAY CAUSE PEOPLE EVEN IN THOSE HOMES AND RENTING OUT THE OTHER

HALF THAT WILL NOT DO IT. AND EVEN IN OUR SMALL COMMUNITIES, JUST A

SMALL ONE, OR TWO, OR THREE APARTMENTS, IN A NEIGHBORHOOD OR IN A

VILLAGE CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IF SOMEONE CAN LIVE THERE OR

IF THEY'VE GOT TO GO TO THE NEXT VILLAGE OVER AND THEN TRY TO FIGURE OUT

HOW TO GET BACK TO WORK WHEN IN OUR COMMUNITIES WE ALSO DON'T HAVE

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. SO IT REALLY IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE FAIR

HOUSING, APPROPRIATE HOUSING, AND I AM CONCERNED AND THAT'S WHY I

WANTED TO RAISE THESE ISSUES. THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR -- OR MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUESTION, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS: WILL THE SPONSOR

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YIELD?

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU SO MUCH,

MADAM SPONSOR. YOU'RE DOING A FABULOUS JOB. YOU'RE DOING A

FABULOUS JOB WITH THIS DEBATE. I COULDN'T THINK OF A BETTER PERSON TO BE

DOING IT, BUT I HAVE ONE PARTICULAR QUESTION. I AM FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO

LIVE VERY CLOSE TO CANADA, I CAN BE THERE IN 15 MINUTES, BUT GENERALLY

WHEN I GO THROUGH CANADA I'M GOING A LITTLE FURTHER THAN THAT. AND IN

FACT, SOMETIMES WHEN I GO I'M GOING ALL THE WAY TO DETROIT. AND IF

YOU GO BY TAKING 90 WEST, I CAN GO TO DETROIT, BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE ME

SEVEN OR EIGHT HOURS. BUT IF I GO THROUGH CANADA, IT'S GOING TO TAKE ME

FOUR, MAYBE THREE-AND-A-HALF. AND SO I DO KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD

PREVIOUS FELONIES, PROBABLY MORE -- A LOT MORE THAN EIGHT YEARS AGO,

WHO HAVE HAD NO TROUBLES, NO OTHER ISSUES WITH LAW, LAW-ABIDING

WORKING CITIZENS PAYING TAXES, SENDING KIDS TO COLLEGE, ET CETERA, ET

CETERA WHO WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH CANADA AS WELL. BUT,

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T GO THROUGH CANADA WITH A FELONY RECORD. SO IS

THIS GOING TO BE VISIBLE IF YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH CANADA?

MS. CRUZ: THAT -- IT IS, THAT'S CANADIAN LAW, WE

CAN'T CHANGE THAT. THANK YOU.

MS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS: MR. NOVAKHOV.

MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. SO

FIRST OF ALL -- ON THE BILL, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER GIBBS: ON THE BILL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. NOVAKHOV: SO ALTHOUGH I HAVE AN INCREDIBLE

APPRECIATION FOR THE PERSONAL STORIES THAT WE HAVE HEARD TODAY - AND

EDDIE, I LOVE YOU -- MR. SPEAKER, I LOVE YOU - IT IS MY BELIEF THAT THE

BILLS AND VOTES SHOULD HAVE THEIR FOUNDATION ON THE STUDIES, IN THE

STUDIES. UM, THE CLEAN SLATE BILL CURRENTLY UNDER CONSIDERATION, SO

WHILE -- WHILE THE PROPONENTS OF THIS BILL ARGUE THAT IT IS A STEP TOWARDS

JUSTICE AND (INAUDIBLE), I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT IT UNDERMINES THE VERY

PRINCIPLES OF OUR LEGAL SYSTEM AND POSES SIGNIFICANT RISKS TO PUBLIC

SAFETY. FIRST AND FOREMOST, LET US ACKNOWLEDGE THE IMPORTANCE OF

ACCOUNTABILITY. THIS BILL PROPOSES TO AUTOMATICALLY SEAL THE CRIMINAL

RECORDS OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF CERTAIN NON-VIOLENT

OFFENSES AFTER A SPECIFIED PERIOD OF TIME. WHILE THE INTENTION MAY BE

TO GIVE THESE INDIVIDUALS A FRESH START, WE MUST NOT FORGET THAT

ACCOUNTABILITY IS A FUNDAMENTAL ASPECT OF A FAIR AND JUST SOCIETY.

CRIMINAL RECORDS SERVE AS AN ESSENTIAL TO FOR

EMPLOYERS, LANDLORDS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TO ASSESS AN

INDIVIDUAL'S CHARACTER AND MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS. BY WIPING THE

SLATE CLEAN, WE RUN THE RISK OF ERASING CRUCIAL INFORMATION AND DENYING

THE PUBLIC THEIR RIGHT TO KNOW ABOUT SOMEONE'S PAST ACTIONS.

FURTHERMORE, PUBLIC SAFETY SHOULD BE OUR UTMOST PRIORITY. THIS BILL

FAILS TO CONSIDER THE POTENTIAL DANGERS ASSOCIATED WITH AUTOMATICALLY

SEALING CRIMINAL RECORDS. BY EXPUNGING A PERSON'S HISTORY, WE

ELIMINATE VITAL INFORMATION THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES RELY UPON TO

IDENTIFY PATTERNS OF BEHAVIOR AND MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS WHEN IT

COMES TO PUBLIC SAFETY. THIS BILL COULD INADVERTENTLY LEAD TO THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

RELEASE OF INDIVIDUALS WITH A HISTORY OF REPEAT OFFENSES PUTTING

INNOCENT LIVES AT RISK. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO IGNORE THE POTENTIAL

CONSEQUENCES OF THIS (INAUDIBLE) LEGISLATION.

MOREOVER, THIS BILL OVERLOOKS THE IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE

OF INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY. WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT VALUES PERSONAL

GROWTH, REDEMPTION AND SECOND CHANCES; HOWEVER, IT IS CRUCIAL TO

RECOGNIZE THAT TRUE REHABILITATION IS A PROCESS THAT REQUIRES EFFORT AND

COMMITMENT FROM THE INDIVIDUAL SEEKING IT. SIMPLY ERASING CRIMINAL

RECORDS WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATION OF AN INDIVIDUAL'S ACTIONS, EFFORTS

AND RESTITUTION OR GENUINE REMORSE UNDERMINES THE VALUE OF PERSONAL

RESPONSIBILITY. IT SENDS A MESSAGE THAT ACCOUNTABILITY CAN BE EASILY

EVADED, DIMINISHING THE SIGNIFICANCE OF ONE'S ACTIONS AND THE

CONSEQUENCES THEY SHOULD BEAR.

LASTLY, WE MUST CONSIDER THE POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE AND

EXPLOITATION OF THIS BILL. BY AUTOMATICALLY SEALING CRIMINAL RECORDS,

THIS LEGISLATION COULD BE EXPLOITED BY INDIVIDUALS WHO SEEK TO HIDE

THEIR PAST OFFENSES FOR A NUMBER OF PURPOSES. IT COULD PROVIDE COVER

FOR THOSE WITH A HISTORY OF FRAUDULENT ACTIVITIES PUTTING VULNERABLE

COMMUNITIES AT RISK AND ENABLING RECIDIVISM. WE CANNOT ALLOW OUR

JUSTICE SYSTEM TO BE MANIPULATED IN SUCH A MANNER.

IN CONCLUSION, WHILE THIS BILL MIGHT BE

WELL-INTENTIONED, ITS POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES FAR OUTWEIGH ANY

PERCEIVED BENEFITS. WE MUST UPHOLD THE PRINCIPLES OF ACCOUNTABILITY,

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, AND PUBLIC SAFETY. INSTEAD OF ERASING CRIMINAL

RECORDS, LET US FOCUS ON IMPLEMENTING EFFECTIVE AND COMPREHENSIVE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

REHABILITATION PROGRAMS THAT GENUINELY ADDRESS THE ROOT CAUSES OF

CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR. ONLY THEN CAN WE FOSTER A SOCIETY THAT PROMOTES

TRUE JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS FOR ALL.

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MENTION THAT I'M A SMALL BUSINESS

OWNER AND MY COMPANY HIRED TWO INDIVIDUALS THAT JUST WERE RELEASED

FROM PRISON AND WERE IN A HALFWAY HOUSE. FOR ONE OF THEM, I SIGNED A

PERSONAL GUARANTEE WHEN HE WAS RENTING AN APARTMENT. I'M AWARE OF

THE ISSUE, I'M AWARE OF -- OF THIS PROBLEM, BUT SEALING THE RECORDS WILL

NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. JACKSON.

MS. JACKSON: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: ANYTHING FOR TJ'S MOM.

MS. JACKSON: HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL BE AFFECTED

ONCE OR IF THIS BILL BECOMES LAW BY SEALING OF RECORDS?

MS. CRUZ: WELL, WE HAVE THE NUMBER OF 2.3

MILLION. I WOULD ARGUE IT'S PROBABLY THREE TIMES THAT BECAUSE WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT THE SPOUSES, THE CHILDREN, THE GRANDPARENTS AND

EVERYBODY ELSE WHO WILL BENEFIT FROM THIS PERSON HAVING A JOB AND A

HOME.

MS. JACKSON: OKAY. AND WHAT, IF ANY, FINANCIAL

GAINS PROJECTED FOR THE STATE OF NEW YORK IF WE GET THESE INDIVIDUALS

INTO THE WORKFORCE?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: OH, I HAVE THAT NUMBER FOR YOU. GIVE

ME A SECOND.

MS. JACKSON: ALL RIGHT NOW.

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ: WE ARE LOOKING AT 7.1 BILLION IN EARNINGS

BOOST TO NEW YORK STATE.

MS. JACKSON: YOU SAID BILLION WITH A 'B'?

MS. CRUZ: YES, BILLION WITH A 'B'.

MS. JACKSON: ALL RIGHT. BILLION WITH A 'B', 7. --

7.1?

MS. CRUZ: SEVEN POINT 1 BILLION, YES.

MS. JACKSON: ONE BILLION. ALL RIGHT.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MS.

JACKSON.

MS. JACKSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT TO

THANK THE SPONSOR AND THANK THE SPEAKER FOR BRINGING THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION TO THE FLOOR. I WANT TO THANK THE ADVOCATES WHO WORKED

TIRELESSLY ON THIS BILL, AND FOR MY OWN SAKE, I AM GRATEFUL TO SEE THIS

BILL COME TO THE FLOOR BECAUSE I CAN'T DO ANOTHER PRESS CONFERENCE,

RALLY, INTERVIEW SAYING, "CLEAN SLATE CAN'T WAIT."

BUT ON A MORE SERIOUS NOTE, THIS BILL WILL SUPPORT THE

MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE HERE IN OUR STATE. WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE

EMPLOYED, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO EMPLOY THEM; WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE

HOUSED, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO HOUSE THEM. WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO

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MOOCH OFF THE SYSTEM, BUT WE DON'T WANT THEM TO GET PROFESSIONAL

LICENSES TO CREATE GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT. IN MY 'HOOD, WE SAY PICK A

STRUGGLE.' MY QUESTION TO THE PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE THIS BILL, IS WHERE DO

YOU WANT THESE PEOPLE TO WORK? WHERE DO YOU WANT THESE PEOPLE TO

LIVE? HOW DO YOU WANT THEM TO BE PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY?

HOW LONG SHOULD YOU PAY FOR YOUR WRONGDOINGS? THESE PEOPLE HAVE

BEEN CONVICTED OF THEIR CRIME, THEY HAVE SERVED THEIR TIME. AND,

HONESTLY THREE YEARS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME FOR A MISDEMEANOR,

EIGHT YEARS MAKES NO SENSE FOR A FELONY. IF YOU HAVE SERVED YOUR TIME,

WHY ARE WE SILL WAITING TO ALLOW PEOPLE INTO THE WORKFORCE? WHY ARE

WE STILL WAITING TO ALLOW PEOPLE INTO HOUSING? WHAT MORE DO YOU

WANT THEM TO DO?

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION IS SUPPORTED BY UNIONS, BY

BUSINESSES, BY LABOR AND WE'RE STILL HERE DEBATING IT. IT JUST DOES NOT

MAKE SENSE TO ME. THIS IS WHAT WE CALL PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT. AND

SO AT SOME POINT, AT SOME POINT, WE HAVE TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT HERE IN THE

STATE ASSEMBLY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $7.1 BILLION THAT WE CAN BE

GENERATING HERE IN OUR STATE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 2.3 MILLION PEOPLE

AND THEN SOME BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THEIR FAMILIES THAT WILL

BENEFIT FROM THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION BEING PASSED.

SO AGAIN, I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR

TAKING HER TIME AND EXPLAINING, AND DOING THE RESEARCH. I WANT TO

THANK THE STAFF FOR ALSO TAKING THEIR TIME AND DOING THE RESEARCH AND

MAKING SURE WE DO WHAT IS RIGHT HERE IN THIS STATE. I KNOW IN MY

COMMUNITY IF I WANT YOUNG PEOPLE, IF I WANT PEOPLE IN GENERAL TO NOT

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BE INVOLVED IN CRIME, I MAKE SURE WE CREATE EMPLOYMENT FOR THEM,

AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL IS DOING. YOU CANNOT CONTINUE TO SAY WE WANT

TO DECREASE CRIME BUT NOT INCREASE EMPLOYMENT. WE HAVE TO DO

SOMETHING, WE CAN'T KEEP COMPLAINING. SO WE ALL ARE NOT GUARANTEED

JUST BECAUSE WE WERE BORN IN A CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOOD TO BECOME

LEGISLATURES [SIC]. I'M FORTUNATE TO COME OUT OF HARLEM AND FORTUNATE

TO BE IN A SYSTEM OF LIVING ON MEDICAID AND FOOD STAMPS AND PUBLIC

HOUSING, FORTUNATE BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY SAME SITUATION DID NOT

BECOME A LEGISLATURE [SIC], THEY DID NOT BECOME A LICENSED SOCIAL

WORKER. THE SAME -- THE SAME PERSON I GREW UP IN A HOUSEHOLD WITH

SERVES TIME ON RIKERS BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN OUR

IMPOVERISHED NEIGHBORHOODS. IT IS HARD TO -- TO BEAT, IT REALLY IS HARD

TO BEAT, IT'S HARD TO COME OUT OF THOSE SITUATIONS. BUT WHAT WE'RE

SAYING IS ONCE YOU HAVE COMMITTED THE CRIME AND YOU SERVED YOUR

TIME, WE ARE SAYING IT IS AT SOME POINT OUR DUTY TO SAY YOU CAN GO BACK

TO WORK, YOU SHOULD BE EMPLOYED SOMEWHERE, YOU SHOULD BE HOUSED

SOMEWHERE, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET A LICENSE TO BE A TRUCK DRIVER, OR

A LICENSE TO BE A SOCIAL WORKER. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THOSE THINGS.

YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE EDUCATED IN A COLLEGE ENVIRONMENT. THAT

SHOULD BE ALLOWED.

SO AGAIN, IT IS TIME FOR US TO DO RIGHT BY THESE 2.3

MILLION PEOPLE. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS $7.1 BILLION SO THAT WE CAN

PUT MORE MONEY INTO MENTAL HEALTH AND EDUCATION HERE IN OUR STATE.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MS.

WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU. I'VE BEEN LISTENING VERY

ATTENTIVELY OVER THE LAST FEW HOURS AND IT IS REALLY REMARKABLE, IT MAKES

ME PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF A CHAMBER WHERE WE CAN HAVE SUCH, YOU

KNOW, REALLY DIVERSE POINTS OF VIEW AND -- AND REALLY GREAT COMMENTS

THAT ARE COMING, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T AGREE, WE DON'T AGREE. AND

WE'RE REALLY NOT GOING TO AGREE ON THIS PARTICULAR -- ON THIS PARTICULAR

BILL. I WAS HOPING IN THE LITTLE BIT OF TIME THAT I HAVE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT

ABOUT THE REAL REASONS WHY I DON'T SUPPORT THE BILL, AND SOME OF THEM

MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT SURPRISING BECAUSE I'VE HEARD FROM SOME OTHER

COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE KIND OF ASSUMING AND MAYBE MAKING

SOME ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WHY WE WOULD BE OPPOSED TO IT. SO I -- I

WANTED TO JUST TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

FIRST OF ALL, JUST AT THE OUTSET, I'VE HEARD SOME

PREVIOUS SPEAKERS SAY THAT THIS BILL IS BETTER THAN IT WAS, AND THAT THE

SPONSOR TALKED TO A LOT OF STAKEHOLDERS. AND FOR THAT, I WANT TO SAY

THANK YOU. ALTHOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH THE BILL IN THE FORM IT'S IN, I

THINK THAT TALKING TO STAKEHOLDERS AND BRINGING PEOPLE TO THE TABLE AND

FIGURING OUT HOW TO MAKE A PIECE OF LEGISLATION BETTER IS -- IS A GOOD

THING. AND A LOT OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT WE'VE HAD OVER THE LAST COUPLE

OF YEARS REGARDING BAIL REFORM REALLY CAME FROM A FEELING THAT --THAT

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THOSE STAKEHOLDERS WEREN'T BROUGHT IN EARLY ENOUGH OR OFTEN ENOUGH,

AND WHAT WE ENDED UP WITH WAS SOMETHING WE COULDN'T LIVE WITH. SO I

-- I APPRECIATE THAT THE SPONSOR WAS TAKING THE TIME AND EFFORT TO DO

THAT. I THINK THAT THAT'S PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITY AS LEGISLATORS AND I

APPRECIATE THAT.

I JUST THINK THAT WE HAVE TO GAUGE THE FINAL WORK

PRODUCT AS IT IS, AS IT IS AND WHAT IT DOES, AND I THINK THAT THE EXTENSIVE

QUESTIONING THAT THE SPONSOR'S RECEIVED DURING THIS DEBATE REALLY SHOWS

THE -- THE LEVEL OF CONCERN, REALLY INTO THE MINUTIA OF THE BILL AND WHAT

THE BILL COVERS, WHAT IT DOESN'T COVER, AND I WON'T REPEAT THAT, I'M NOT

GOING TO REPEAT THAT, I THINK THAT THAT'S BEEN -- THAT'S BEEN DONE.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, THOUGH, THE THINGS

ABOUT THIS BILL THAT BOTHER ME THE MOST IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER. THE FIRST

IS THE RETROACTIVITY. TO GO ALL THE WAY BACK, TO HAVE THREE YEARS TO GO

ALL THE WAY BACK AND WIPE THIS SLATE CLEAN FOR THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE

THAT ARE -- ARE TO BE LIKELY AFFECTED BY THIS BILL, 2.3 MILLION HAS BEEN

SAID, THAT -- THAT'S A BIG CONCERN OF MINE. THE FACT THAT IT'S AUTOMATIC I

HAVE -- I HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH. I THINK THAT OUR CURRENT SYSTEM

WHERE WE ALLOW THESE CRDS OR CERTIFICATE OF RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES,

OR CERTIFICATES OF GOOD CONDUCT, IS THAT -- IS THAT A PERFECT SYSTEM THAT

REALLY HELPS EVERYBODY? NO, I -- I DON'T. I -- I THINK IT COULD PROBABLY

USE SOME REFORM, BUT I WOULD RATHER REFORM THAT THAN THROW --

BASICALLY THROW IT ALL OUT AND DO THIS INSTEAD. I KNOW IT'S NOT GETTING

THROWN OUT BY THIS LEGISLATION, BUT IT WON'T BE REALLY UTILIZED, AND I

THINK IT'S BEEN PROBABLY UNDERUTILIZED. TALKING TO ATTORNEYS THAT I

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KNOW WHO HAVE DONE CRIMINAL DEFENSE WORK, THEY SAY THAT ONE OF THE

BIGGEST PROBLEMS WITH THE CRDS AND THE CERTIFICATES OF GOOD CONDUCT

IS THAT THEIR CLIENTS, THE DEFENDANTS DON'T WANT TO WAIT LONG ENOUGH.

THEY -- THEY DON'T -- THEY KEEP, KIND OF KEEP THEMSELVES CLEAN FOR LIKE

NINE MONTHS OR SO, THEY -- THEY WANT TO JUST GET THAT CRD AND GET IT

DONE. THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND MAYBE OR APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT IT TAKES

A JUDGE OR ANYBODY LOOKING AT THEIR CASE AND AT THEIR RECORD TO BE ABLE

TO -- TO BE ABLE TO DECIDE WHETHER THAT INDIVIDUAL REALLY IS DESERVING OF

GETTING A CRD OR CERTIFICATE OF GOOD CONDUCT.

THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER, MY COLLEAGUE WHO HAS SUCH AN

AMAZING PERSONAL STORY IS THE REASON WE NEED A PROCESS. AND I THINK

IT'S REMARKABLE THAT HE -- HE USED THAT PROCESS AND HE WAS VERY HONEST

IN SAYING, I DON'T -- I USED THIS PROCESS, I RECEIVED MY CERTIFICATE OF

GOOD CONDUCT, BUT NOT EVERYBODY COULD FOLLOW MY PATH. SO WHY

COULDN'T EVERYBODY FOLLOW HIS PATH? WHAT ARE THE BARRIERS? I WOULD

SAY LET'S LOOK AT THOSE. IS THE BARRIER THAT, IS IT MONEY? IS IT -- IS IT

MONEY AND BEING ABLE TO HIRE YOUR OWN ATTORNEY, IS THAT A BARRIER THAT

NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED? I WOULD BE WILLING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. I

WOULD BE WILLING TO CARVE OUT MONEY AND RESOURCES THROUGH MAYBE

LEGAL AID TO BE ABLE TO GIVE PEOPLE THE ABILITY TO AVAIL THEMSELVES OF

COUNSEL WHEN THEY GO IN TO LOOK FOR A CRD OR A CERTIFICATE OF -- OF

GOOD CONDUCT. YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IS IT THAT THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT

IT? THAT THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS AN OPTION FOR THEM? IF THAT'S THE

CASE, WHEN INDIVIDUALS ARE LEAVING OUR JAILS AND PRISONS, I THINK WE

PASSED A BILL NOT SO VERY LONG AGO THAT SAYS THAT THEY'RE TO BE GIVEN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

VOTER REGISTRATION INFORMATION, THEY'RE TO BE GIVEN THEIR ORIGINAL

DOCUMENTS SO THAT THEY CAN GO AND IMMEDIATELY APPLY FOR BENEFITS TO

HELP THEM AS THEY TRANSITION BACK INTO -- INTO THE WORLD AND INTO -- INTO

NEW YORK STATE. WHY NOT PROVIDE THEM WITH INFORMATION ABOUT

RECEIVING CRDS OR CERTIFICATES OF GOOD CONDUCT? YOU KNOW, THEY

CAN ASK AT THE TIME THAT THEY'RE SENTENCED, THEY COULD ASK AT

SENTENCING, AFTER SENTENCING OR AFTER THEIR INCARCERATION PERIOD IS DONE

ABOUT THIS PROCESS, BUT IF THEY DON'T KNOW TO AFFIRMATIVELY ASK, I THINK

THAT WE COULD DO A BETTER JOB MAKING SURE THAT THEY DO FIND OUT AND

THEY'RE AWARE OF IT. I THINK THOSE ARE THINGS I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE

BROAD SUPPORT IN THIS CHAMBER.

I MAY SOUND LIKE A BROKEN RECORD, BUT I THINK IT BEARS

REPEATING THAT I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS THAT I HAVE WITH THIS

PIECE OF LEGISLATION IS IT COMPLETELY ELIMINATES JUDICIAL DISCRETION. I

REALLY, IN MY HEART, I BELIEVE THAT FROM ALL OF THE DEBATES THAT I'VE SAT

THROUGH HAVING TO DO WITH CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORMS, THAT WITH

UNDERLYING -- WHEN I LISTEN TO MY COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE

AISLE, WHAT UNDERLIES IS A REAL WEARINESS AND A DISTRUST AND A FEELING

THAT JUDGES ARE ALL JUST RACIST AND ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE THE PERSON

APPEARING IN FRONT OF THEM ANY REAL JUSTICE OR REAL CONSIDERATION. AND I

-- I JUST DON'T THINK WE'RE EVER GOING TO AGREE ON THAT ISSUE. I DON'T --I

DON'T BELIEVE THAT TO BE THE CASE. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT TO BE A BLANKET

STATEMENT THAT COULD BE MADE ABOUT THE JUDICIARY, AND I DON'T AGREE

WITH THAT. I THINK THAT JUDGES ARE IN THE BEST POSITION TO CONSIDER THE

BACKGROUND AND THE PATH FORWARD THAT INDIVIDUALS HAVE TAKEN AFTER

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THEY'VE SERVED THEIR SENTENCE TO GO DOWN A DIFFERENT PATH, TO TURN THEIR

LIVES AROUND, TO -- TO SHOW THAT THEY CARE ABOUT HAVING THEIR LIVES

TURNED AROUND BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S BEEN MENTIONED EARLIER

BUT LET'S FACE IT, NOT EVERYBODY THAT'S COME OUT OF JAIL OR PRISON REALLY --

REALLY CARES ABOUT TURNING THEIR LIVES AROUND, THEY DON'T ALL CARE. AND

IF THEY DON'T, THEN WHY WOULD WE WANT TO GIVE THIS TO THEM

AUTOMATICALLY? I DON'T -- I JUST DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

IT WAS SAID EARLIER ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE AND OUR ROLE

IN THE ASSEMBLY IS BEING -- IS HELPING PEOPLE. AND I COMPLETELY AGREE

WITH THAT AND I CERTAINLY, I THINK ALL OF US ARE IN PUBLIC SERVICE AND

WE'RE TRYING TO DO THAT. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE VOTES, IT IS FOR ME ABOUT

REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN MY DISTRICT, THE PEOPLE AS BEST I CAN

UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WANT AND TO REFLECT THAT IN THE VOTES THAT I TAKE.

I'M IN A -- YOU KNOW, I'M IN A BEAUTIFUL POSITION IN THE MINORITY

BECAUSE I CAN PRESS EITHER BUTTON. NOBODY'S TELLING ME TO PRESS A GREEN

BUTTON. I CAN PRESS WHICHEVER BUTTON I THINK IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO ON

A PARTICULAR BILL BASED ON WHAT I HEARD FROM MY CONSTITUENTS WHEN I GO

OUT IN THE COMMUNITY, WHAT THE PEOPLE IN MY COMMUNITY ARE TELLING

ME, AND BASED ON MY -- MY BACKGROUND AND MY EXPERIENCE AND ALL THE

YEARS THAT I'VE SPENT REPRESENTING MY DISTRICT, AND I CAN JUST VOTE THAT

WAY. SO IT'S NOT ABOUT -- IT'S NOT ABOUT THE VOTES IN THE SENSE THAT I FEEL

LIKE THE PEOPLE -- I THINK THE PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT WOULD BE VERY

UNHAPPY IF I VOTED FOR THIS, YES, BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY CONSIDERATION

THAT I BRING TO IT BUT I ALWAYS BELIEVE, I REALLY DO BELIEVE IN THE ADVICE

THAT I RECEIVED WHEN I FIRST CAME INTO OFFICE WHICH IS IF YOU VOTE THE

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WAY THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN YOUR DISTRICT WOULD WANT YOU TO

VOTE, THAT'S -- THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, YOU'LL ALWAYS BE ON THE RIGHT

SIDE OF THINGS IF YOU DO THAT. LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO PUT YOU THERE.

SO THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WHY I'M VOTING NO.

I THINK THAT ONE OF THE PREVIOUS SPEAKERS JUST SAID THAT

SHE WAS EXCITED ABOUT THE 2.3 MILLION PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE

HELPED THROUGH THIS CLEAN SLATE LEGISLATION BECAUSE THEY ARE THE MOST

VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN OUR STATE, AND I COULD NOT -- I COULD NOT DISAGREE

MORE. I'VE SPENT THE LAST FEW DECADES REPRESENTING CHILDREN IN THE

FAMILY COURT SYSTEM, AND I HAVE PROSECUTED ABUSE AND NEGLECT CASES,

AND SOME OF THE MOST HORRENDOUS SEXUAL HARASSMENT, SEXUAL ABUSE AND

PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL ABUSE, AND I KNOW WHO THE MOST VULNERABLE

PEOPLE ARE IN OUR SOCIETY. I -- I AM A PARENT OF AN INDIVIDUAL WITH

DISABILITIES AND I'VE WORKED A LOT WITH THE DISABILITIES COMMUNITY,

THOSE WHO ARE INTELLECTUALLY AND DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED. THEY ARE

VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN OUR SOCIETY. I HAVE A PARENT WHO IS 97 YEARS OLD

AND I'M SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE QUITE ELDERLY AND FRAIL. THEY

ARE THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN OUR SOCIETY. THEY ARE THE PEOPLE

THAT I THINK ARE DESERVING MOST OF THE PROTECTION THAT WE CAN OFFER

THEM.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER, WHY DO

YOU RISE?

MS. WALKER: (INAUDIBLE/MIC OFF)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. --

MS. WALSH: I REALLY -- ONLY BECAUSE I DON'T THINK I

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HAVE ENOUGH TIME REALLY TO COVER MY -- MY REMAINING POINTS, I'M

GOING TO DECLINE, WITH RESPECT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALSH DOES NOT

YIELD. THANK YOU.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU. SO I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE

RECORD LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RIGHT NOW. WE -- WE HAVE EMPLOYERS THAT

ARE REALLY -- REALLY WANTING TO HIRE. AS I TRAVEL THROUGH MY DISTRICT,

THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT I MEET FROM DIFFERENT BUSINESSES THAT ARE CRYING

OUT FOR PEOPLE TO APPLY FOR JOBS FOR THEM AND WANT TO HIRE THEM. I

UNDERSTAND THE REASONS FOR THE BUSINESS COUNCIL AND OTHER GROUPS TO

SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION, I HAPPEN TO DISAGREE WITH IT, BUT I UNDERSTAND

THE RATIONALE THAT THEY PUT FORWARD FOR IT. I THINK THAT, AS HAS BEEN SAID

EARLIER, THERE IS REALLY NO -- THERE'S NO REASON UNDER OUR CURRENT LAW

WHY EMPLOYERS WHO ARE OPEN-MINDED, WHO ARE WILLING TO LISTEN TO

APPLICANTS WON'T HIRE THEM. AND I BELIEVE THAT FOR UNDER THE ISSUE OF

TRANSPARENCY, THIS BODY HAS SPOKEN SO OFTEN ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND

YET, I BELIEVE THAT THIS LEGISLATION IS SETTING TRANSPARENCY BACK WHO WILL

NO LONGER KNOW ABOUT THE BACKGROUNDS OF THE PEOPLE IN THEIR OWN

COMMUNITY. THE PEOPLE THAT I REPRESENT WANT TO FEEL SAFE AND SECURE

IN THEIR HOMES, THEIR PLACES OF WORK AND THEIR COMMUNITY FOR

THEMSELVES, FOR THEIR CHILDREN, FOR THEIR FAMILIES. BUSINESSES SHOULD

WANT TO KNOW WHO IT IS THAT THEY'RE -- THAT THEY'RE BRINGING ON BOARD.

AND I THINK THAT PUBLIC SAFETY AND SECURITY HAS BEEN SUCH A KEY ISSUE

OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS AS WE'VE BEEN DOING OUR WORK. I THINK THAT THE

-- THE ELECTION LAST YEAR WAS IN SOME WAYS A REAL REFERENDUM ON THE

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PUBLIC'S UNEASE AND FEELING OF NOT FEELING SAFE, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION HELPS IN THAT REGARD. I CAN SEE WHY, FRANKLY,

THERE WOULD BE A DESIRE TO PASS CLEAN SLATE IN A NON-ELECTION YEAR, BUT

I DO THINK THAT THERE WILL BE REPERCUSSIONS NEXT YEAR FOR THOSE WHO

HAVE SUPPORTED IT.

I BELIEVE THAT IT'S TOO BROAD. I UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO

HAVE SECOND CHANCES. MY -- MY POINT, JUST IN CONCLUSION, IS THAT WE

HAVE -- WE HAVE AN EXISTING PROGRAM WITH CRDS AND CERTIFICATES OF

GOOD CONDUCT TO ALLOW INDIVIDUALS WHO REALLY WANT TO TURN THEIR LIVES

AROUND, AND I WOULD BE VERY WILLING TO LOOK AT WAYS TO IMPROVE THAT

PROGRAM, TO EXPAND IT, TO BETTER INFORM PEOPLE AND TO FUND IT, BUT I

BELIEVE THAT THE CURRENT LEGISLATION IS OVERBROAD AND I THINK IT'S

EXTREMELY ILL-ADVISED AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU,

MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. TAYLOR.

MR. TAYLOR: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. TAYLOR: THANK YOU. AS I SAID YESTERDAY,

MUCH OF WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID, EXCEPT FOR NOT

BY ME. SO I -- I REALLY THINK THAT WE HAVE AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF

LEGISLATION, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR 2.3 MILLION PEOPLE IN NEW YORK STATE TO

FINALLY GET SOME RELIEF. AGAIN, IT'S NOT A CHECK THAT WE'RE GIVING, IT'S AN

OPPORTUNITY TO BRING SEVEN-SOMETHING BILLION DOLLARS TO THE STATE OF

NEW YORK IF WE ALLOW THESE PEOPLE TO GO TO WORK. WHAT I FIND

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INTERESTING IS I THINK I MAY BE A CANDIDATE FOR SOMETHING THAT'S

HAPPENING IN THIS LEGISLATION. SO AM I UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, IF I'M

UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, THAT SOMEONE WITH A MISDEMEANOR CAN HAVE

THEIR CASE SEALED AUTOMATICALLY. THAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME.

AS WE CELEBRATE THE ERA OF HIP-HOP, 50 YEARS OF

HIP-HOP. AT THE SAME ERA, I HAD A COUPLE OF INCIDENTS HERE AND THERE

CROSSING WHAT THEY CALL THE MTA WITHOUT HAVING ADEQUATE FARE AND

BEING CHARGED IN (INAUDIBLE) WHICH IS STILL OPEN IN THIS DAY RIGHT NOW.

A FEW YEARS BACK, MY WIFE AND I WERE IN BRONX FAMILY COURT AND WE

WERE GOING TO -- TO HELP SOMEONE THAT WAS GOING TO BE IN OUR CARE AS

FOSTER PARENTS, IF YOU WOULD. AND SO I'M SITTING IN THE ROOM WITH THE

JUDGE, IT WAS GREAT, I WAS EXCITED BECAUSE WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING,

AND SHE SAID, TELL ME ABOUT YOURSELF, AND YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO TALK ABOUT

ME, IT WAS NO PROBLEM AT ALL. SO I BEGAN TO TALK ABOUT MYSELF AND THEN

SHE PAUSED, AND I PAUSED AND SHE SAID, WELL, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR

INCIDENTS WITH THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. I SAID, ALL RIGHT, NO

PROBLEM, I'VE NEVER BEEN -- WELL, WHAT ABOUT THIS FARE EVASION? AND I

WAS LIKE, WHAT? GET OUT OF HERE. IT SITS RIGHT THERE IN THE PUBLIC TODAY.

ALL WE'RE SAYING IS CLOSE THAT DOWN, GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY. THE GUY

THAT'S STANDING HERE TODAY, YOU GUYS WOULDN'T HAVE ALLOWED ME INTO

THIS SPACE 50 YEARS AGO. I WASN'T THE SAME INDIVIDUAL. WE EVOLVE, WE

CHANGE, WE GROW, WE'RE DIFFERENT.

MY COLLEAGUE SPOKE SO ELOQUENTLY IN HERE ABOUT WHY

IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE CLEAN SLATE. IT'S LIKE FRESH WATER. THE ABILITY

TO STEP UP. JOINING THE MILITARY. I -- I JUST KNEW FOR THE MOMENT WHEN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

I WAS SITTING IN FORT HAMILTON AND THE GUY SAYS, MR. TAYLOR, WE WANT

TO TELL YOU -- HE SAID WELL, HE CALLED ME MY GOVERNMENT NAME, ALFRED

TAYLOR, HE SAID, WE WANT TO TELL YOU THAT YOU PASSED. YOU CAN BE A

MECHANIC, YOU CAN BE AN ELECTRIC ENGINEER, YOU CAN BE AN MP OR YOU

CAN BE A CHEF. AND I SAID, WELL, WHAT'S AN MP? THEY SAID, MILITARY

POLICE OFFICER, AND I'M LIKE SURELY THEY DON'T MEAN THAT. THIS THING IS

GOING TO GO SOUTH REAL QUICK WHEN THEY FIND OUT WHO I AM AND WHAT

I'VE DONE AND WHAT I THINK ABOUT POLICE OFFICERS AT 18 YEARS OF AGE.

AND I FIGURED I'D JUST RIDE THIS ON OUT.

TWO WEEKS LATER, I'M IN FORT DIX, I'M IN BOOT CAMP, I

GO THROUGH, I DO MY SEVERAL WEEKS OF BOOT CAMP AND THEN I FIND MYSELF

WITH A BUS TICKET TO GO TO FORT MCCLELLAN, ALABAMA. I SAID, THE GIG'S

GOING TO BE UP PRETTY SOON, THEY'RE GOING TO FIND OUT I'VE MADE A

MISTAKE AND I'M DONE. WHAT? I GO THROUGH MILITARY POLICE TRAINING,

LIKE NINE WEEKS, I SAID SURELY THE GIG'S GOING TO BE UP BY THE TIME I GET

TO ARIZONA AND THEY'RE GETTING READY TO GIVE ME A WEAPON. LISTEN, I

OBTAINED A DRIVER'S LICENSE, I HAD NO HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA. BUT IF YOU

LOOKED AT MY JACKET AT THAT POINT, I WAS NOT THE PERSON YOU WANTED TO

GIVE A GUN AND BADGE AND PATROL CAR AND SAID, WE WANT YOU TO PROTECT

AND SERVE.

I'M SAYING THAT PEOPLE CAN CHANGE, WE NEED AN

OPPORTUNITY AND I'M STANDING AND I'M SO DOGGONE PROUD THAT THIS PIECE

OF LEGISLATION IS GOING FORWARD BECAUSE 2.3 MILLION THAT WE CAN COUNT

NEED THIS, AND I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE. FIFTY YEARS LATER, MY RECORD IS

STILL OPEN. I THINK AUTOMATICALLY SEALING THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WHAT THE HECK'S WRONG WITH THAT, AMERICA? I'LL BE VOTING IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GIGLIO.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CRUZ YIELDS.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE, I KNOW

WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SAY NAMES, I'M SORRY. SO IS OPERATING AS A MAJOR

DRUG TRAFFICKER A SEALABLE OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: ONLY IF THEY DON'T GET THE MAXIMUM

JUDGE -- ALLOWABLE SENTENCE BY THE JUDGE.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO ACCORDING TO MY RECORDS

AND WHAT I'VE READ ON THAT IT'S A MINIMUM OF FIVE YEARS, A MAXIMUM OF

25 YEARS, AND A LOT OF THOSE CRIMES ARE PLEADED DOWN TO THE MINIMUM

SENTENCE AND IF THEY GET GOOD BEHAVIOR THEY'RE OUT SOONER, SO...

MS. CRUZ: THAT -- THAT'S NOT THE DRUG SENTENCING

STATUTE.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE

DEFINITION OF A DRUG TRAFFICKER IS, AS A MAJOR TRAFFICKER IS?

MS. CRUZ: I DON'T HAVE THAT, BUT WE CAN PULL IT UP,

SO...

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. IT'S A PROFITEER WHO KNOWINGLY

AND UNLAWFULLY POSSESS ON ONE OR MORE OCCASIONS --

MS. CRUZ: I'M SORRY. MR. SPEAKER, CAN YOU ASK --

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. MEMBERS,

WE NEED THE DOORS CLOSED BEHIND ME. MEMBERS WILL TAKE THEIR SEATS,

CEASE CONVERSATIONS, STAFF, CLEAR THE AISLES AND LET THE DEBATE CONTINUE,

PLEASE.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO IT'S UNLAWFULLY POSSESS ON

ONE OR MORE OCCASIONS WITHIN SIX MONTHS OR LESS A NARCOTIC DRUG OR

INTENT TO SELL THE SAME AND SUCH NARCOTIC DRUGS HAVING A TOTAL AGGREGATE

VALUE OF $75,000 OR MORE. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE WE LOST IN

THE UNITED STATES LAST YEAR DUE TO FENTANYL DEATHS?

MS. CRUZ: NO, BUT I'M SURE YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME.

MS. GIGLIO: A HUNDRED AND TEN THOUSAND. AND

$75,000 WORTH OF FENTANYL IS APPROXIMATELY 62,000 PILLS; THAT'S 62,000

LIVES, IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE I'M TOLD AND WE HEAR ON THE NEWS THAT

ONE PILL CAN KILL SOMEBODY, I'M SURE YOU AGREE. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW,

IS CRIMINAL SALE OF A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE IN THE FIRST DEGREE A SEALABLE

OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO DO YOU KNOW THE DEFINITION

OF A CRIMINAL SALE OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE IN THE FIRST DEGREE?

MS. CRUZ: I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT

I'M SURE YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. GIGLIO: IT MEANS YOU WOULD HAVE COMMITTED A

CLASS A FELONY IF YOU SELL A LARGE AMOUNT OF NARCOTICS, SPECIFICALLY TO

BE PROSECUTED UNDER THIS SECTION IN THE AMOUNT OF DRUGS INVOLVED MUST

BE TWO OUNCES OR MORE OF NARCOTICS, OR 2,880 MILLIGRAMS OR MORE OF

METHADONE. NOW, THAT'S A -- THAT'S A LOT OF DRUGS AND WE HAVE MANY

DEATHS, BUT WE'LL GET IN TO THAT LATER.

MS. CRUZ: MS. GIGLIO, IF I MAY, I THINK WE BOTH CAN

AGREE THAT WE HAVE A DRUG PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT I THINK WE CAN

ALSO BOTH AGREE THAT ONCE THESE FOLKS HAVE BEEN SENTENCED, WE'RE NOT

LOOKING AT PEOPLE BEING SENTENCED, YOU KNOW, TO TWO MONTHS, THREE

MONTHS. THESE ARE -- THESE ARE HEAVY TRAFFICKERS THAT WILL PROBABLY

SPEND A REALLY LONG TIME IN JAIL AND I THINK EVEN THEY DESERVE A SECOND

CHANCE WHEN -- IF THEY COME OUT, IF THEY MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS AND

THEY MEET THEIR SENTENCE, THEY DO THEIR PROBATION, WHICH THEY PROBABLY

WILL HAVE, AND THEN EIGHT YEARS LATER IF THEY HAVE NOT RE-OFFENDED, THEY

CAN THEN ACCESS THIS LEGISLATION.

MS. GIGLIO: DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY DRUG ARRESTS

THERE ARE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT TO DRUG

DEALERS THAT ARE OUT ON BAIL AND THAT GO OUT AND RECOMMIT WHILE THEY'RE

OUT ON BAIL THAT DON'T GET CAUGHT BUT ARE STILL TRAPPED IN THE SAME

SOCIETY OF DRUG SALES?

MS. CRUZ: I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH THIS

BILL.

MS. GIGLIO: WELL, IT -- IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH

EVERYTHING BECAUSE -- BUT -- BUT WE'LL GET BACK TO THAT LATER ON. THERE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE ARRESTED EVERY SINGLE DAY THAT LAW

ENFORCEMENT SPENDS HOURS ON WITH STINGS AND OPERATIONS AND

(INAUDIBLE) LAW ENFORCEMENT VEHICLES ALL OVER THE PLACE, WATCHING

SOMEONE, GETTING APPROVED TO LOCK THE PERSON UP AND ONLY HAVE THEM

GET BACK OUT ON THE STREET AND KILL PEOPLE WITH DRUGS.

MS. CRUZ: WELL, IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE THE

CONSTITUTION. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT SOMEONE IS GUILTY AND

HAVE THEM FOUND GUILTY NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME YOU SPENT

INVESTIGATING.

MS. GIGLIO: UNDERSTOOD. AND I BELIEVE THAT WE'RE

NOT DOING A GREAT JOB WITH SPEEDY TRIALS, AND I THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM

WITH OUR LAW TODAY AND --

MS. CRUZ: THAT'S NOT GERMANE TO THIS BILL.

MS. GIGLIO: RIGHT. IS GANG ASSAULT IN THE 1ST

DEGREE A SEALABLE OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: LET ME DOUBLE-CHECK.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE

DEFINITION OF GANG ASSAULT IS?

MS. CRUZ: CAN YOU LET ME DOUBLE-CHECK FIRST,

BECAUSE OTHERWISE IT'S NOT GERMANE TO THIS, SO HOLD ON.

(PAUSE)

IS IT AN A OR B, CAN -- CAN YOU DOUBLE-CHECK?

MS. GIGLIO: GANG ASSAULT IN THE 1ST DEGREE IS, I

BELIEVE IT'S AN A-1, NOPE. IT'S A B VIOLENT FELONY.

MS. CRUZ: THEN IT WOULD BE.

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MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO DO YOU KNOW THE DEFINITION

OF A GANG ASSAULT IN THE 1ST DEGREE?

MS. CRUZ: I AM SURE YOU WOULD -- YOU'RE GOING TO

READ IT TO ME, AND -- GO AHEAD.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. INTENT TO CAUSE SERIOUS PHYSICAL

INJURY TO ANOTHER PERSON AND WHEN AIDED BY TWO OR MORE OTHER PERSONS

ACTUALLY --

MS. CRUZ: I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU BECAUSE OUR

COLLEAGUES ARE BEING REALLY LOUD. THANK YOU.

MS. GIGLIO: AND THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE

GANG AND DRUGS ARE VERY IMPORTANT SO I AGREE WITH YOU.

MS. CRUZ: YES, I GREW UP IN COLOMBIA. I'M VERY

MUCH IN FAVOR OF -- OF ENDING --

MS. GIGLIO: WELL, WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE HERE AND

YOU'RE SAFE. SO INTENT TO CAUSE SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURY TO ANOTHER

PERSON AND WHEN AIDED BY TWO OR MORE OTHER PERSONS ACTUALLY PRESENT,

HE OR SHE CAUSES SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURY TO SUCH PERSON. SERIOUS

PHYSICAL INJURY MEANS IMPAIRMENT OF A PERSON'S PHYSICAL CONDITION

WHICH CREATES A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF DEATH, OR WHICH CAUSES DEATH OR

SERIOUSLY AND PROTRACTED DISFIGUREMENT OR PROTRACTED IMPAIRMENT OF

HEALTH OR PROTRACTED LOSS OF IMPAIRMENT OF THE FUNCTION OF ANY BODILY

ORGAN. AND THE MINIMUM SENTENCE OF THAT IS FIVE YEARS WITH A

MAXIMUM OF 25 YEARS. IS ASSAULT IN THE 1ST DEGREE A SEALABLE OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: NO. IT'S AN A-1, I BELIEVE. I'M SORRY,

THAT'S AN A -- IT'S A B? IT'S A B, BUT IT'S NOT.

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MS. GIGLIO: IT'S A B FELONY BUT YOU'RE SAYING IT'S

NOT?

MS. CRUZ: IT'S NOT SEALABLE. WAIT. HOLD ON. THERE

SEEMS TO BE SOME CONFUSION. I BELIEVE IT IS. IT IS.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO ASSAULT IN --

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: -- THE 1ST DEGREE IS A SEALABLE OFFENSE.

DO YOU KNOW THE DEFINITION OF ASSAULT IN THE 1ST DEGREE?

MS. CRUZ: WHY DON'T I READ IT FOR YOU THIS TIME?

MS. GIGLIO: THAT'D BE GREAT.

MS. CRUZ: ASSAULT IN THE 1ST --

MS. GIGLIO: AND IF YOU MISS ANYTHING, I'LL LET YOU

KNOW.

MS. CRUZ: -- DEGREE. A PERSON IS GUILTY OF ASSAULT

IN THE 1ST DEGREE WHEN WITH INTENT TO CAUSE SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURY TO

ANOTHER PERSON, HE CAUSES SUCH INJURY TO SUCH PERSON OR THIRD PERSON

BY MEANS OF A DEADLY WEAPON OR DANGEROUS INSTRUMENT, OR WITH INTENT

TO DISFIGURE ANOTHER PERSON SERIOUSLY AND PERMANENTLY, OR TO DESTROY,

AMPUTATE OR DISABLE PERMANENTLY A MEMBER OR ORGAN OF HIS BODY, HE

CAUSES SUCH INJURY TO SUCH PERSON OR THIRD PERSON OR UNDER THE

CIRCUMSTANCES OF EVINCING A DEPRAVED INDIFFERENCE TO HUMAN LIFE, HE

RECKLESSLY ENGAGES IN CONDUCT WHICH CREATES A GRAVE RISK TO DEATH -- OF

DEATH TO ANOTHER PERSON AND THEREBY CAUSES SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURY TO

ANOTHER PERSON, OR IN THE COURSE OF AND IN FURTHERANCE OF COMMISSION

OR ATTEMPTED COMMISSION OF A FELONY, OR IMMEDIATE FLIGHT THEREFORE --

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THEREFROM HE OR ANOTHER PARTICIPANT IF THERE BE ANY CAUSES SERIOUS

PHYSICAL INJURY TO A PERSON OTHER THAN THE ONE -- THE ONE OF THE

PARTICIPANTS. ASSAULT IN THE 1ST DEGREE IS A CLASS B FELONY --

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. AND THAT IS A SEALABLE OFFENSE.

MS. CRUZ: WE CAN -- WE CAN GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE

LIST IF YOU'D LIKE.

MS. GIGLIO: NO, I'M GOING TO ADD ON TO WHAT YOU --

MS. CRUZ: OKAY.

MS. GIGLIO: -- BUT I'D LIKE TO FINISH UP.

MS. CRUZ: GO AHEAD.

MS. GIGLIO: SO -- BUT IT IS A SEALABLE OFFENSE FOR

EVERYTHING THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.

MS. CRUZ: WITH THE EXCEPTIONS OF WHO -- OF LAW

ENFORCEMENT, EDUCATIONAL ENTITIES, ET CETERA, ET CETERA WHO CAN ACCESS

THEM FOR VARIOUS PURPOSES.

MS. GIGLIO: (INAUDIBLE). SO...

MS. CRUZ: I'M SORRY, WHAT DID YOU SAY? I DIDN'T

HEAR YOU.

MS. GIGLIO: SO WE'RE PROTECTING LAW ENFORCEMENT.

SO IF THEY --

MS. CRUZ: NO, NO, NO. WE ARE ENSURING -- WE ARE

PROTECTING THE COMMUNITY BY ENSURING THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN HAVE

ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. BUT THEY'RE ALREADY

INCARCERATED AND RELEASED AND THEIR -- THEIR RECORD IS SEALED.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. CRUZ: NO. THEY'VE BEEN INCARCERATED,

RELEASED, PAID THEIR DUES TO SOCIETY, A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA TIME HAS

TRANSPIRED AND THEN THEIR RECORD IS SEALED.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. YES, THANK YOU FOR CORRECTING

-- (INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MS. CRUZ: WELL, I WOULDN'T CALL EIGHT YEARS A LOT OF

TIME, BUT YES.

MS. GIGLIO: SO IT ALSO SAYS ANOTHER CRITICAL ELEMENT

OF THE STATUTE IS THAT THE ACTIONS CAN'T BE -- MERELY BE BORNE FROM FISTS,

ELBOWS AND FEET BUT BY NEITHER A WEAPON OR DANGEROUS INSTRUMENT. SO,

YOU KNOW, A DANGEROUS INSTRUMENT, READILY CAPABLE OF CAUSING DEATH OR

SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURY. SO THAT IS ASSAULT IN THE 1ST DEGREE, WHICH IS

SEALABLE. IS AGGRAVATED ASSAULT UPON A POLICE OFFICE OR PEACE OFFICER

SEALABLE?

MS. CRUZ: THAT QUESTION'S ALREADY BEEN ASKED AND

ANSWERED TO ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES EARLIER.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO THE ANSWER IS?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. AND DO YOU KNOW THE

DEFINITION OF AGGRAVATED ASSAULT UPON A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE

OFFICER?

MS. CRUZ: I DON'T.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. INTENTIONALLY SERIOUSLY INJURE A

POLICE OFFICER WHO IS ATTEMPTING TO PERFORM HIS OFFICIAL DUTIES. YOU

MUST HAD USED A DEADLY WEAPON OR DANGEROUS INSTRUMENT TO COMMIT

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THE ASSAULT. IS KIDNAPPING IN THE 1ST DEGREE A SEALABLE OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: IT IS NOT.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. WHAT ABOUT THE 2ND DEGREE?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. KIDNAPPING IN THE 2ND DEGREE

IS DEFINED AS ABDUCTING ANOTHER PERSON. AN ABDUCTION WILL BE RAISED TO

THE LEVEL OF KIDNAPPING IN THE 1ST DEGREE IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING

FACTORS ARE INVOLVED: RANSOM IS DEMANDED, THE VICTIM DIES, THE VICTIM

IS RESTRAINED FOR MORE THAN 12 HOURS SO THAT YOU CAN PHYSICALLY INJURE

OR SEXUALLY ASSAULT THE VICTIM, COMMIT ANOTHER FELONY, TERRORIZE A THIRD

PERSON OR INTERFERE WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF A GOVERNMENT POLITICAL

FUNCTION. SO I KNOW THAT WE SAID THAT SEX CRIMES ARE NOT SEALABLE

OFFENSES. SO IF -- THAT WAS A FELONY, TOO, BUT IT RAISES TO A FELONY 1, BUT

WE'LL GET IN TO MORE OF THE SEXUAL OFFENSES THAT ARE IN SOME OF THESE

OTHER CRIMES THAT ARE SEALABLE. IS BURGLARY IN THE 1ST DEGREE A SEALABLE

CRIME?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. AND IN BURGLARY IN THE 1ST

DEGREE, IT SAYS BURGLARY IS DEFINED AS THE UNLAWFUL ENTERING OF

SOMEONE'S PROPERTY WITH INTENT TO COMMIT A CRIME, THE CRIME CAN BE

LARCENY; HOWEVER, IT COULD ALSO BE ASSAULT, RAPE, KIDNAPPING OR ANY

OTHER TYPE OF CRIMINAL OFFENSE. SO IF BURGLARY IN THE 1ST DEGREE

INVOLVES RAPE, ARE -- IS THE -- ARE THEY -- WHEN THEY'RE RELEASED, IS THEIR

FILE SEALABLE?

MS. CRUZ: I'M SORRY, IF THEY'RE CONVICTED OF WHAT?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. GIGLIO: SO BURGLARY IN THE 1ST DEGREE IS

DESCRIBED AS ASSAULT, IT COULD BE ASSAULT, RAPE, KIDNAPPING OR ANY OTHER

TYPE OF CRIMINAL OFFENSE. SO IF SOMEBODY RAPED SOMEBODY IN

A BURGLARY --

MS. CRUZ: IF THEY'RE FOUND -- IF SOMEONE RAPES

SOMEONE AND THEY'RE FOUND GUILTY OF RAPE, THAT IS LIKELY A REGISTRABLE

OFFENSE AND THAT WOULD NOT BE SEALED.

MS. GIGLIO: EVEN IF IT WAS IN PART OF A BURGLARY IN

THE 1ST DEGREE AND THAT WAS THE CHARGE.

MS. CRUZ: WELL, THE BURGLARY, IT WOULD BE ONE

THING, THE SEX OFFENSE WOULD BE ANOTHER.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. AND I THINK I'M RUNNING OUT OF

TIME SO I'M GOING TO GET THROUGH THOSE, BUT THESE ARE SOME REALLY

DISTURBING THINGS TO ME. WITH ALL THE GUN LAWS THAT WE ADOPT AND

WHAT'S GOING ON IN NEW YORK STATE AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO AND

STOP GUN VIOLENCE AND WE SEE THE ORANGE SHIRTS AND WE SEE EVERYBODY

WALKING AROUND THE CAPITOL AND WE ALL AGREE THAT GUN VIOLENCE IS BAD

AND WE NEED TO STOP IT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DYING. IS CRIMINAL

POSSESSION OF A FIREARM A SEALABLE OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO IT'S THE LEAST SERIOUS FELONY,

POSSESSION OF A FIREARM, AND IF YOU'RE CHARGED WITH THIS CRIME, YOU'RE

SERVING A MAXIMUM OF FOUR YEARS. SO YOU HAVE CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF

A FIREARM, YOU'RE SERVING A MAXIMUM OF FOUR YEARS, YOU'RE OUT, YOUR

RECORD'S SEALED AND HOPEFULLY THEY WON'T GET THEIR HANDS ON ANOTHER

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GUN. CRIMINAL USE OF A FIREARM IN THE 1ST DEGREE. IS THAT A SEALABLE

OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: WHAT WAS THE SECOND --

MS. GIGLIO: CRIMINAL USE OF A FIREARM IN THE 1ST

DEGREE.

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: THAT IS -- THAT IS A SEALABLE OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: YES YOU SAID?

MS. CRUZ: YES I SAID.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO IT -- IT REQUIRES THAT THE

DEFENDANT POSSESS A WEAPON WHILE IN THE PROCESS OF COMMITTING A

VIOLENT FELONY, THAT YOU POSSESSED A LOADED DEADLY WEAPON OR THAT YOU

DISPLAYED WHAT APPEARS TO BE A PISTOL, REVOLVER, RIFLE, SHOTGUN, MACHINE

GUN OR OTHER FIREARM. HOW ABOUT CRIMINAL SALE OF A FIREARM IN THE 3RD

DEGREE? IS THAT A SEALABLE OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO YOU CAN SELL A FIREARM AND

YOU SELL IT, GIVE IT, EXCHANGE THE FIREARM, OR YOU HAVE THE INTENT TO SELL

IT AND IT'S A SEALABLE OFFENSE. HOW ABOUT IF YOU HAVE A SALE OF A FIREARM

OR CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON A SCHOOL GROUND? IS THAT A

SEALABLE OFFENSE?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: IT IS. OKAY. SO YOU CAN CARRY --

MS. CRUZ: AND I BELIEVE THAT ONE -- WAS THAT -- WAS

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THAT THE BUZZER? OH, SORRY. I THOUGHT -- I THOUGHT I HEARD THE BUZZING.

IT WAS SOMEONE'S CHAIR.

MS. GIGLIO: CAN I HAVE MY 30 SECONDS BACK?

(LAUGHTER)

MS. CRUZ: YES, IT IS.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF A

WEAPON ON A SCHOOL GROUND IS A SEALABLE OFFENSE. FOR THE VERY

MINIMAL --

MS. CRUZ: YES, BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT'S A

MISDEMEANOR.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE

ATTORNEY GENERAL FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK'S CRIME VICTIMS BILL OF

RIGHTS?

MS. CRUZ: YES.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO --

MS. CRUZ: BY THE WAY, WE ALSO WORKED WITH THE

ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK ON THIS BILL.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO THEN YOU KNOW THAT NOTICE

OF DISCHARGE, RELEASE OR ESCAPE OF OFFENDER FROM A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY

IS A VICTIM'S RIGHT TO BE NOTIFIED.

MS. CRUZ: I'M -- I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT HAS TO DO

WITH THIS.

MS. GIGLIO: I'M JUST ASKING YOU IF YOU KNOW WHAT

THE VICTIMS BILL OF RIGHTS IS BECAUSE MY QUESTION IS --

MS. CRUZ: WELL, AND -- AND I'M -- I'M WILLING TO

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ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT ARE GERMANE TO THE BILL.

MS. GIGLIO: SURE, SURE.

MS. CRUZ: I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH

THIS.

MS. GIGLIO: SO IS THERE A NOTICE WHEN THE PEOPLE --

WHEN THEIR TIME IS SERVED, THEY'VE BEEN RELEASED, THEY'RE DOING

EVERYTHING THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING AND AUTOMATICALLY THEIR

RECORDS ARE SEALED --

MS. CRUZ: AND THAT'S YOUR BUZZER.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY.

MS. CRUZ: I WILL -- I WILL ANSWER IT SUPER SHORTLY.

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS BILL.

MS. GIGLIO: WELL, I MEAN, WE DID TAKE SOME TIME

ALSO TO QUIET EVERYBODY DOWN A FEW TIMES, SO, BUT --

MS. CRUZ: SO THAT -- THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH

THIS BILL. THAT BILL OF RIGHTS IS A COMPLETELY SEPARATE PIECE OF LAW.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL,

PLEASE. AND THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ, FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I'M AFRAID YOU'VE

EXERCISED ALL YOUR TIME WITH THE QUESTIONS.

MS. GIGLIO: WELL, THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MS. GIGLIO: SO THANK YOU FOR YIELDING AGAIN.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.

MS. GIGLIO: SO --

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MS. CRUZ: NO, NO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GIGLIO.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: NO, YOU HAVE NO TIME

LEFT.

MS. GIGLIO: I HAVE NO TIME LEFT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU USED ALL YOUR

TIME.

MS. GIGLIO: BUT I CAN EXPLAIN MY VOTE LATER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: LATER.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THERE WE GO.

MS. GIGLIO: THAT'S OKAY, THAT'S ALL I'LL NEED.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SO WE HAVE

EXPENDED THE AMOUNT OF TIME ON THIS BILL OTHER THAN MS. CRUZ TO CLOSE.

ANYONE AFTER THAT MUST EXPLAIN THEIR BILL -- EXPLAIN THEIR VOTE IN THE

TWO-MINUTE TIME ALLOCATED.

MS. CRUZ.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. TODAY, WE

BEGIN TO CHANGE THE LIVES OF MORE THAN TWO MILLION NEW YORKERS. I

WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR HELPING US GIVE PEOPLE A SECOND

CHANCE AT LIFE. THIS LEGISLATION ISN'T ABOUT CRIMINAL JUSTICE ONLY, IT ISN'T

JUST ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, IT ISN'T JUST ABOUT ECONOMIC JUSTICE, IT ISN'T JUST

ABOUT EQUITY AND FAIRNESS. IT'S ABOUT REDEMPTION. PEOPLE CAN CHANGE.

PEOPLE CAN GET BETTER. PEOPLE CAN REPENT, PEOPLE CAN BE FORGIVEN. OUR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SOCIETY SHOULD NOT BE JUDGED OF THE BEHAVIOR OF ONE MEMBER AT ITS

WORST MOMENT, BUT ON OUR ABILITY TO FORGIVE THEM AND TO GRANT THEM THE

ABILITY TO MOVE FORWARD AND HEAL AND TO BECOME PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS

OF OUR SOCIETY.

AT THE HEART OF ALL THE OPPOSITION I KEEP HEARING, IT'S

ONLY THE BELIEF THAT PEOPLE CANNOT CHANGE, BUT THAT THEY'RE SORELY

DEFINED BY THE WORST THING THAT THEY'VE EVER DONE IN THEIR LIFE. MR.

SPEAKER, THERE ARE MORE THAN TWO MILLION NEW YORKERS WHO MADE A

MISTAKE, TWO MILLION NEW YORKERS WHO PERHAPS GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE

SYSTEM OR EVEN PLED TO SOMETHING THEY WERE NOT EVEN GUILTY OF BECAUSE

THEY WANTED TO MOVE ON WITH THEIR LIVES. THEY MAY HAVE BEEN AT THE

WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME AND THEY PAID THEIR PENANCE BY GOING TO

PRISON, BY SERVING THEIR PROBATION, BY ATTENDING PROGRAMS, BY PAYING

FINES. BUT A RECORD REMAINS THAT HAUNTS THEM NOW AND UPON

ATTEMPTING TO RETURN HOME INTEGRATING BACK INTO OUR COMMUNITY,

FINDING A JOB THAT COULD PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILY AND OBTAINING A HOME

FOR THEM. REPEATEDLY, THEIR WORST MISTAKE WAS HELD OVER THEIR HEAD.

AND FOR 2.3 MILLION NEW YORKERS AND THEIR FAMILIES, IT IS AS IF THAT

SENTENCE NEVER ENDED. THIS IS PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT.

I WANT TO TELL YOU A QUICK STORY ABOUT ONE OF THE

PEOPLE WHO IS GOING TO BENEFIT, BECAUSE WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT THE WORST

CASES. AND THIS IS THE KIND OF WORST CASES. THERE'S MARYANNE, SHE

LIVES IN THE HUDSON VALLEY, AND SHE'S A SURVIVOR OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.

SHE WAS FLEEING AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP AND AS PART OF THAT PROCESS, SHE

USED THE HUSBAND'S CREDIT CARD. SHE WAS ARRESTED, SHE GOT A

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MISDEMEANOR AND EVEN THOUGH SHE MOVED ON WITH HER LIFE, AND SHE

EVEN GOT A MASTER'S DEGREE, IT STILL HAUNTS HER TO THIS DAY.

THE OPPOSITION ARGUES THAT WE ARE JEOPARDIZING PUBLIC

SAFETY BY PASSING CLEAN SLATE AND THAT WE'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT

VICTIMS. BUT SCIENCE, THAT'S VERIFIED RESEARCH, HAS -- TELL US A VERY

DIFFERENT STORY. THAT WHEN WE MAKE OUR -- THAT WE CAN MAKE OUR

COMMUNITIES SAFER BY GIVING PEOPLE A SECOND CHANCE. STABILITY

REDUCES RECIDIVISM. STABILITY COMES INTO FORM OF A JOB THAT CAN

PROVIDE FOR YOUR FAMILY AND A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD. CLEAN SLATE WILL

ADDRESS THE SYSTEMATIC BARRIERS AT GETTING A JOB AND GETTING HOUSING. IN

MICHIGAN WHERE THIS LAW HAS ALREADY BEEN IMPLEMENTED, WE SAW AN

11 PERCENT INCREASE WITHIN TWO YEARS OF PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO GET A JOB

AND 25 PERCENT OF PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO INCREASE THEIR LIVING.

I WANT TO THANK OUR ASSEMBLY TEAM, CURRENT AND PAST,

FOR THEIR SUPPORT OVER THE YEARS TO GET THIS BILL ON THE FLOOR TODAY.

MARTY, LOUANN, MICHELINA, JEN, SARAH, BUT ESPECIALLY SUPERSTAR BECCA

WHO WORKED WITH US TO ENSURE THAT WE CAN TRULY GIVE PEOPLE HOPE. I

ALSO WANT TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO THANK OUR SPEAKER WHO NOT ONLY

ENTRUSTED ME WITH THIS INCREDIBLE OPPORTUNITY, BUT ALSO REMAINED FULLY

COMMITTED AND SUPPORTIVE TO THE PASSAGE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

NEVER DOUBT THAT. I KNOW A LOT PEOPLE QUESTIONED IT, BUT I DIDN'T

QUESTION IT FOR A SINGLE DAY. I WANT TO THANK MY TEAM AND OUR FAMILIES,

AND OUR FAMILIES, WHO BECOME SO -- SUCH A BIG PART OF THIS PROCESS AND

THIS JOURNEY. AND I ALSO WANT TO THANK MY CHIEF-OF-STAFF, ROBYN WHO

IS A TRUE BELIEVER IN REDEMPTION. SHE SPENT A DECADE IN THE TRENCHES AS

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A CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND IS COMMITTED JUST LIKE I AM TO BUILDING

AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND SOCIAL JUSTICE SO THAT OUR COMMUNITIES

CAN LIVE TO THEIR FULL POTENTIAL. I WANT TO THANK THE CLEAN SLATE

COALITION FOR BRINGING THIS LIFE-CHANGING BILL TO OUR DOORSTEPS, AND FOR

PUSHING US TO CHANGE THE LIVES OF SO MANY PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE CENTER

FOR COMMUNITY ALTERNATIVES, HUDSON-CATSKILL HOUSING COALITION,

LEGAL ACTION, LEGAL AID SOCIETY, BRONX DEFENDERS, AND THERE'S LIKE

200 OF THEM, I'M NOT NAMING ALL. I ALSO WANT TO THANK LABOR AND THE

PRIVATE SECTOR FROM DC 37 TO HTC TO THE LABORERS, TO THE MASON

TENDERS. EVERYONE CAME TOGETHER TO HELP US. NATIONAL GRID, NAACP,

THE CHILDREN'S LAW CENTER, EVEN LOCALITIES FOR PASSING LEGISLATION IN

SUPPORT OF OUR BILL. SCHENECTADY, BEACON, CATSKILL ALL PASSED LOCAL --

LOCAL BILLS IN SUPPORT OF US. AND I WANT TO THANK MY SENATE SPONSOR

FOR HELPING ME LEAD THIS FIGHT AS WELL AS THE ASSEMBLY COLLEAGUES WHO

STOOD BY ME AT EVERY RALLY SCREAMING "CLEAN SLATE CAN'T WAIT."

AND BEFORE I FINISH, I WANT TO DEDICATE MY VOTE TO THE

GREAT MARVIN MAYFIELD WHO RECENTLY TRANSITIONED FROM THIS EARTH.

(APPLAUSE)

MARVIN WAS A FORCE OF NATURE LEADING OUR PRESS

CONFERENCES, LIVING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US HERE, TELLING HIS OWN STORY AS

THE FORMALLY-INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL WHO HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO

SOMETHING AMAZING WITH HIS LIFE. HE SERVED OUR COUNTRY IN THE AIR

FORCE AND WAS ACTIVE IN HIS CHURCH AND WORKED TO ORGANIZE AT THE

CENTER FOR COMMUNITY ALTERNATIVES WHERE I MET HIM. HE DID NOT LET

HIS ENTANGLEMENT WITH THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM DEFINE HIM, EVEN

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THOUGH SOCIETY TRIED TO REPEATEDLY. HE'S WITH US IN SPIRIT TODAY. A YEAR

AGO I CALLED HIM PRETTY DEFEATED AFTER WE COULD NOT PASS CLEAN SLATE,

AND I APOLOGIZED TO HIM, APOLOGIZED FOR FAILING HIM AND SO MANY OTHER

FAMILIES. HE ASKED ME TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT AND I WILL NEVER FORGET THE

WORDS HE SAID TO ME. HE SAID, YOU CAN'T GIVE UP BECAUSE WE CANNOT

AFFORD FOR YOU TO GIVE UP. MARVIN, I DIDN'T GIVE UP AND WE'RE ABOUT TO

VOTE YES BECAUSE OF YOU.

WHEN THE ADVOCATES BROUGHT ME THIS BILL FOUR YEARS

AGO, I WASN'T SURE ABOUT CARRYING IT, AND THIS IS A STORY A LOT OF PEOPLE

DON'T KNOW. I'VE SPOKEN OPENLY ABOUT BEING A VICTIM OF A CRIME

MYSELF ON THIS FLOOR, AND I TRULY DIDN'T KNOW IF I COULD RELATE TO PEOPLE

WHO HAVE COMMITTED CRIMES IN THE SAME WAY. AND THEN I BEGAN

SITTING DOWN WITH FAMILIES, WITH THE GRANDCHILDREN, WITH THE CHILDREN,

WITH THE BUSINESSES WHO WANTED TO SUPPORT THEM IN WHAT I SAW WAS A

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD. I SAW PEOPLE WHO DESERVED AN

OPPORTUNITY. I SAW PEOPLE WHO WERE FIGHTING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY AND A

SOCIETY THAT CONSISTENTLY TOLD THEM, YOU ARE NOT WORTH THAT OPPORTUNITY.

AND I CHANGED MY MIND AND I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING EVERY SINGLE DAY

SINCE THEN TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY GET THE CHANCE, BECAUSE IT SHOULD NOT

BE ABOUT LUCK. IT SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT A GOOD PERSON DOING A GOOD

THING FOR YOU. IT SHOULD BE THAT OUR SOCIETY IS SET UP TO ENSURE THAT THE

MINUTE YOU COME OUT, YOU PAY YOUR PENANCE TO SOCIETY AND YOU THEN

PAID SOME EXTRA TIME, YOU GET THAT CLEAN SLATE AND THAT SECOND CHANCE

AT LIFE.

AND I WANT TO SAY ONE EXTRA THANK YOU, I KNOW I'VE

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ALREADY THANKED HIM, BUT THIS WAS REALLY HARD-FOUGHT. THE SPEAKER

ENCOURAGED ME TO MEET WITH EVERYONE, FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT TO

COMMUNITY GROUPS TO EVEN OUR OWN COLLEAGUES, AND WE LISTENED. AND

WE BUILT THE KIND OF LEGISLATION THAT WE CAN BE PROUD OF AND THAT WE

KNOW WILL CHANGE THE LIVES OF PEOPLE, AND FOR THAT I AM INTERNALLY

GRATEFUL TO OUR SPEAKER AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: QUIET. THANK YOU,

THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 365TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. OF COURSE, THOSE

WHO SUPPORT IT ARE ENCOURAGED TO VOTE YES HERE ON THE FLOOR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW OF US THAT WOULD DESIRE TO

BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO VOTE SO AT THEIR DESK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. WEPRIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. WEPRIN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I BELIEVE IN

THIS BILL BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN SECOND CHANCES. I CHAIRED THE CORRECTION

COMMITTEE IN THIS HOUSE FOR SIX YEARS UP UNTIL THIS JANUARY. I VISITED

MANY, MANY CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE, BOTH STATE AND

LOCAL, AND I AM CONSTANTLY RUNNING INTO FORMALLY-INCARCERATED

INDIVIDUALS WHO TELL ME HAD THEY KNOWN NOW WHAT THEY KNEW WHEN

THEY COMMITTED THEIR CRIME, THEY WOULD -- THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN

INCARCERATED. IF THEY HAD THE EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY THAT ARE OFTEN

OFFERED IN OUR CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE DONE THAT.

THE NATURE OF THE CRIME WILL NEVER CHANGE, BUT THE INDIVIDUAL CAN AND

DOES, AND THAT'S WHY THE COMMITTEE IS CALLED CORRECTION AND NOT

PUNISHMENT. I FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT THE TWO ELDER -- THE ELDER

PAROLE BILL AND THE FAIR AND TIMELY PAROLE. THEY BELIEVE -- IT'S ABOUT

SECOND CHANCES AND GIVING PEOPLE HOPE AND OPPORTUNITY. AND THAT'S

WHY I'M A PROUD COSPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, WHY I THINK

IT'S SO IMPORTANT. I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND PROUDLY VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. WEPRIN IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. SOLAGES.

MS. SOLAGES: TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. PERPETUAL

PUNISHMENT. WHEN WE KEEP PUNISHING PEOPLE ENDLESSLY, WE TAKE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AWAY THEIR DIGNITY AND DO NOT ALLOW NEW YORKERS TO INTEGRATE BACK

INTO SOCIETY. BY NOT OFFERING A WAY FOR THEM TO REDEEM THEMSELVES,

WE UNEQUIVOCALLY SUPPORT A SYSTEM THAT CAUSES HARM, INCLUDING

HELPING PEOPLE -- NOT HELPING PEOPLE HEAL AND MAKE AMENDS. WE MUST

END THIS CYCLE OF PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT, ESPECIALLY FOR THE 2.3 [SIC]

NEW YORKERS, A MAJORITY OF THEM FROM COMMUNITIES OF COLOR. MR.

SPEAKER, I'M VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I INVITE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO

JOIN ME BECAUSE CLEAN SLATE IS AN ECONOMIC JUSTICE BILL. THIS

LEGISLATION IS SUPPORTED BY A BROAD COALITION, ONE OF THE BIGGEST I'VE

SEEN MADE UP OF FAITH LEADERS, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, MAJOR UNIONS,

BUSINESS COMMUNITY MEMBERS, AND IT SHOWS YOU THAT ALL TOGETHER,

UNITED, WE CAN MAKE NEW YORK STATE BETTER, BUT WE JUST GOTTA BELIEVE

IN EACH OTHER. WE GOTTA BELIEVE IN SECOND CHANCES. SO I THANK YOU

AND I THANK THE SPONSOR OF THIS LEGISLATION. SHE FOUGHT -- SHE FOUGHT

VERY HARD FOR THIS AND I CONGRATULATE HER ON THIS WONDERFUL DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SOLAGES IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. LEVENBERG.

MS. LEVENBERG: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE

TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. IF COMMUNITY SAFETY IS OUR REAL GOAL, WE NEED TO

FOCUS ON PREVENTING CRIME. CLEAN SLATE IS AN EVIDENCE-BASED APPROACH

TO PREVENTING CRIME AND KEEPING COMMUNITIES SAFE. JUST LAST WEEKEND

ALBANY'S FORMER CHIEF OF POLICE AND A FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR

PUBLISHED AN OP-ED CALLING FOR THE PASSAGE OF CLEAN SLATE TO BOLSTER

PUBLIC SAFETY, EXPLAINING, AND I QUOTE, "THE BEST WAY TO KEEP

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

COMMUNITIES SAFE IS TO PREVENT CRIME IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE CLEAN

SLATE ACT WOULD REMOVE SOME OF THE ROADBLOCKS BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO

HAVE SERVED THEIR TIME AND REAL OPPORTUNITIES TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET

AND FULLY PARTICIPATE IN SOCIETY. WHEN THEY CAN'T FIND JOBS OR HOUSING,

PEOPLE WITH PAST CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS OFTEN END UP BACK IN JAIL, AND

THE CLEAN SLATE ACT WOULD REMOVE A HUGE OBSTACLE FOR PEOPLE WHO

HAVE SERVED THEIR TIME AND ARE TRYING TO BECOME PRODUCTIVE NEW

YORKERS. IT WOULD ALSO HELP REDUCE CRIME AND GROW OUR ECONOMY. IT

MAKES SENSE FOR PUBLIC SAFETY FOR SECOND CHANCES AND FOR THE FUTURE OF

OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND OUR STATE", END QUOTE. TOUGH ON CRIME

RHETORIC MAY PLAY WELL IN THE MEDIA, BUT IN REALITY THIS RHETORIC MAKES

US ALL LESS SAFE. MAKING IT HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO GET WHAT THEY NEED

THROUGH LEGAL MEANS PUSHES PEOPLE TOWARD CRIME. ENABLING PEOPLE

WHO HAVE SERVED THEIR TIME AND THEN SOME TO EARN A LIVELIHOOD THROUGH

LEGAL MEANS WILL MAKE US ALL SAFER. WE HAVE SEEN THIS IN OTHER STATES --

STATES WHICH HAVE IMPLEMENTED SIMILAR LEGISLATION. CRIME GOES DOWN

AND EMPLOYMENT RATES GO UP. THIS BILL, BY DEFAULT, ONLY APPLIES TO

PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DEEMED SAFE FOR UNCONDITIONAL RELEASE INTO THE

COMMUNITY. IT DOES NOT ELIMINATE DISCRETION. THE DISCRETION HAPPENS

AT THE TIME THE PERSON IS SENTENCED AND AGAIN WHEN THE PERSON IS

PAROLED. IT EXCLUDES PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF THE MOST

SERIOUS CRIMES, PARTICULARLY SEX OFFENSES, WHERE THE RISK IS OF -- OF

REOFFENSE IS TOO HIGH TO BE CONSIDERED. THIS LEGISLATION ALSO CONTAINS

EXCEPTIONS SO THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT AND EMPLOYERS WHO NEED TO

CONDUCT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LEVENBERG, HOW

DO YOU VOTE?

MS. LEVENBERG: I AM VERY HAPPY TO BE VOTING IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR ALL HER WORK (INAUDIBLE)

ADVOCATES. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LEVENBERG VOTES

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. TAPIA. TWO MINUTES, FOLKS. WE ARE TIME

(INAUDIBLE).

MS. TAPIA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING

ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FOR YEARS WE HAVE HANDICAPPED AND

PERPETUALLY PUNISHED 2.3 MILLIONS NEW YORKERS, MAJORITY BLACK AND

BROWN NEW YORKERS, TAKING AWAY FROM THEM THE OPPORTUNITIES TO GET

AN EDUCATION, TO GET A GOOD JOB, TO RAISE THEIR FAMILY WITH DIGNITY. THIS

BILL IS THE KEY TO REDEMPTION, REHABILITATION AND BOOSTING OUR ECONOMY.

THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR THIS FIGHT. THANK YOU TO ALL MY

COLLEAGUES THAT PUT OUT THE -- ALL THEIR -- THEIR -- THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCES.

THIS BILL, CLEAN SLATE, IS A WIN-WIN AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MR. MEEKS.

MR. MEEKS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR AN

OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I AM -- I'M GONNA JUST START OFF, I VOTE

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE SO Y'ALL KNOW THAT PART. BUT I'M JUST ABSOLUTELY

ELATED TO STAND HERE. WE -- WE RALLIED, WE ADVOCATED, WE TRULY BELIEVE

THAT CLEAN SLATE CANNOT WAIT. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT JUST IS

BENEFICIAL TO FORMALLY-INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS. THIS IS BENEFICIAL TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE FAMILIES, TO OUR COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. YOU KNOW, TALKING TO THE

NUMEROUS FAMILIES THAT HAD CHALLENGES AS IT RELATED TO HOUSING SECURITY,

DEALING WITH HOUSING INSECURITY FROM ONE CITY TO THE NEXT, FROM ONE

STATE TO THE NEXT BASED UPON A MISTAKE OR A DECISION THAT THEY MADE 15,

20-SOME-ODD YEARS AGO, BEING LOCKED OUT. LOCKING INDIVIDUALS OUT

HURT THAT INDIVIDUAL, BUT IT ALSO HURT OUR COMMUNITIES. AS WAS STATED

EARLIER, THIS IS ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY TO GENERATE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. WE NEED TO BE INTENTIONAL IN PUTTING THESE

RESOURCES INTO DIFFERENT COMMUNITY PROGRAMS THAT WILL HELP OUR YOUTH

GROW AND HELP US GROW AS COMMUNITIES. IT WAS INTERESTING TO HEAR

SOMEONE SPEAK EARLIER TO THE FACT THEY TEND TO VOTE THE WAY THEIR

COMMUNITIES EXPECT THEM TO VOTE. WELL, THANK GOD FOR A DIVERSE STATE

ASSEMBLY, A STATE LEGISLATURE UNLIKE WE'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE. AND

WHEN YOU HAVE THAT, TO THE VOTERS, WHEN YOU SEND PEOPLE TO ALBANY

THAT REFLECT YOU, REFLECT YOUR COMMUNITY, THE ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE IN

YOUR COMMUNITY THAT CAN RELATE TO THOSE CHALLENGES, THAT CAN RELATE TO

THOSE HISTORIC STRUGGLES, THEY COME HERE AND THEY VOTE WITH THEIR HEARTS

AND THEY MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS, AND THEY'RE COMMITTED TO EFFECT THE

NEEDED CHANGE NOT JUST FOR TODAY, BUT FOR GENERATIONS TO COME.

CLEAN SLATE ACT COULD NOT WAIT. TODAY IS THE DAY,

LET'S GET IT DONE.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER LUNSFORD: MR. ARDILA.

MR. ARDILA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. CLEAN

SLATE IS A MULTI-LAYERED PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT I'M SO PROUD TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SUPPORT. IT ENTAILS RACIAL JUSTICE AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM ACROSS THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. AND AS SOMEONE WHO COMES FROM AN IMMIGRANT

BACKGROUND, BORN AND RAISED IN QUEENS, SOMEONE WHO IS STILL IN MY

20S, YOU KNOW, YOU WILL BE ABLE -- WE'RE EXPOSED TO A LOT. AND WHEN

WE -- WHEN YOU COME FROM QUEENS -- AND PEOPLE WHO KNOW ME KNOW

HOW MUCH I LOVE MY BOROUGH. I LOVE BEING FROM QUEENS, I LOVE HOME.

BEING FROM QUEENS MEANS THAT IF YOU'RE A LATINO, YOU ARE MORE LIKELY

TO SERVE TIME THAN TO BE IN THIS LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER SERVING THE

PEOPLE. IF YOU'RE BORN AND RAISED IN QUEENS, YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO BE

EXPOSED TO THE MOST CORRUPT CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IN THE ENTIRE

COUNTRY. SO THAT'S WHY I'M HERE TO SUPPORT, BECAUSE I WANTED TO BE PART

OF THIS CHAMBER TO HELP PEOPLE ACROSS OUR STATE TO TRULY CHANGE LIVES

AND TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM REALLY IS SERVING THE

PEOPLE AND UPLIFTING BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES. IT'S AN HONOR TO

BE HERE. IT'S AN HONOR TO SUPPORT THE SPONSOR OF THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. AND, YOU KNOW, THE SPONSOR AND I ARE BOTH ONE OF THE ONLY

MEMBERS HERE OF COLUMBIAN DESCENT, SO WE HAVE THE SAYING BACK

HOME (SPEAKING SPANISH), TO BE ABLE TO PASS THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION TO

SUPPORT THE PEOPLE.

I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I CAN'T WAIT TO GET THIS

DONE. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ARDILA IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. ANDERSON.

MR. ANDERSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SIR.

MR. ANDERSON: THANK YOU, SIR. SO, THIS IS A

REALLY IMPORTANT STEP, A PIVOTAL STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, MR. SPEAKER,

WHERE WE CAN, AS THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY, DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE A

SOCIETY OF PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT OR A SOCIETY OF SECOND CHANCES. IF

WE'RE A SOCIETY OF MAKING SURE INDIVIDUALS CAN MOVE ON WITH THEIR

LIVES AFTER THEY HAVE SERVED THEIR TIME, AFTER THEY'VE WAITED A

THREE-YEAR TO EIGHT-YEAR PERIOD AS STATED IN THIS BILL TO ENSURE THAT THEY

CAN GET THEIR FAMILIES BACK ON TRACK SO THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO

CONTRIBUTE TO OUR SOCIETIES. IF WE SAY THAT WE SUPPORT LABOR, THEN WE

WILL SUPPORT THIS BILL. IF WE SAY THAT WE ARE CHRISTIANS, WE ARE

CATHOLICS, THEN WE WOULD SUPPORT THIS BILL. IF WE SAY THAT WE'RE --

WE'RE NOT SUPPORTING THINGS BASED OFF OF EMOTIONS BUT OFFER THE FACTS,

THEN WE WOULD SUPPORT THIS BILL, BECAUSE THIS IS AN ECONOMIC BILL, THIS

IS AN INVESTMENT BILL, BUT IT'S ALSO A BILL OF SECOND CHANCES. AND THAT'S

IMPORTANT THAT WE CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF WHO WE ARE AS A SOCIETY, A

SOCIETY THAT DOES NOT PERPETUALLY PUNISH, BUT BELIEVES IN SECOND

CHANCES AND BELIEVES IN RECONCILIATION. AND SO WE CAN END THAT CYCLE

OF PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT HERE TODAY BY VOTING YES ON THIS CRITICAL PIECE

OF LEGISLATION.

I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK THE SPONSOR,

ASSEMBLYWOMAN CRUZ. I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK OUR SPEAKER

FOR HAVING THE COURAGE TO PUSH US FORWARD ON THIS LEGISLATION. AND

LASTLY, MR. SPEAKER, I WANT US TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TO DO THE RIGHT THING. IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO INVEST AND IT IS IMPORTANT

FOR US TO REMEMBER THOSE WHO SOCIETY HAS DOWNCASTED, EVEN AFTER

THEY'RE DONE -- MADE THEIR MISTAKES, HAVE PAID THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY AND

ARE CONTINUING TO MOVE FORWARD.

I THINK ABOUT, MR. SPEAKER, AS I CLOSE, FAMILIES LIKE

TAYANA TAYLOR, WHO I VISITED AT A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY HERE IN NEW

YORK STATE WHOSE FATHER IS NO LONGER A THREAT TO SOCIETY, BUT BECAUSE

WE DON'T HAVE LAWS -- WE HAVE LAWS ON THE BOOKS THAT ARE FOR PERPETUAL

PUNISHMENT WE CANNOT MOVE ON PAST THAT. SO THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

I PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. ANDERSON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. WALKER TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'M

REQUESTING AN OPPORTUNITY TO ABSTAIN IN ORDER TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I

WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED EVERY TIME I KEPT HEARING THE WORDS CRD, AND I

REALIZED THAT AFTER WE HEARD THAT SOME OF THE DISABLED PEOPLE ARE THE

MOST VULNERABLE POPULATIONS WITHIN OUR COMMUNITIES. AND SO THE LACK

OF SAYING CRD MEANT THE LACK OF SAYING A CERTIFICATE OF RELIEF FROM

DISABILITY. AND SO AGAIN, WE SUBMIT THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE ALSO

SUFFERING FROM A CERTAIN LACK OF SOCIETAL DISABILITY. AND DR. KING TELLS

US THAT OPPRESSED PEOPLE WON'T REMAIN OPPRESSED FOREVER, AND THE URGE

FOR FREEDOM WILL EVENTUALLY COME. AND WE BELIEVE THAT THAT DAY HAS

COME TODAY. WE ARE BREAKING A CRIMINAL INJUSTICE SYSTEM, AND WE

KNOW THAT A SYSTEM WHERE THINGS THAT WORK TOGETHER AND ARE

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INTERCONNECTED IN ORDER TO MAKE THINGS POSSIBLE. AND ONE OF THE

EXPLANATIONS THAT I SAW WHEN I GOOGLED WHAT A SYSTEM WAS IT SAYS THE

STATE RAILROAD SYSTEM, BUT TODAY I FEEL LIKE IT REALLY SAYS THE STATE

UNDERGROUND RAILROAD SYSTEM, BECAUSE WE ARE ALLOWING OPPORTUNITIES

WHERE OPPORTUNITIES DID NOT EXIST BEFORE FOR 2.2 MILLION PEOPLE TO BE

ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO DECARCERATION EFFORTS TO TURN AND CHANGE THE

LIVES OF THEMSELVES, THEIR FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES AROUND. WE

ARE SAYING TO THE REST OF THE NATION THAT YOU CAN HELP THE 7.7 [SIC]

PEOPLE WHO ARE FORMALLY INCARCERATED OR THE 12.1 MILLION PEOPLE WHO

WERE CONVICTED BUT NOT IN PRISON, OR THE 45 MILLION PEOPLE LIVING IN

AMERICA WITH A MISDEMEANOR. AGAIN, WE ARE SETTING THE STAGE TO ERASE

THE STIGMA, TO REDUCE BARRIERS TO EMPLOYMENT, TO NORMALIZE BANNING

THE BOX, TO EXPAND HIRING OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE DENIED, TO

REPEAL BARRIERS TO GOVERNMENT OPPORTUNITIES AND GOVERNMENT ACCESS

AND GOVERNMENT FUNDING AND RESOURCES. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THIS

AGAIN IS AN ABOLITIONIST MOMENT WHERE WE ARE UN -- WE'RE UNRAVELING

MASS INCARCERATION AND GIVING PEOPLE A -- A CHANCE IN ORDER TO -- TO

SUPPORT THEIR POLITICAL VOICE AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES.

I PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. JACOBSON.

MR. JACOBSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. WHEN THIS BILL FIRST CAME UP PEOPLE ASKED ME ABOUT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

IT, AND AS I DO WITH ALL BILLS, ESPECIALLY A BILL LIKE THIS, I HAD TO READ THE

BILL. AND I HAD TWO CONCERNS; I HAD CONCERNS ABOUT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

AND I HAD CONCERNS ABOUT HOME HEALTH AIDE. AND I -- AND I MENTIONED

THIS TO THE SPONSOR, AND -- AND SHE WAS VERY RESPONSIVE BECAUSE IN THIS

BILL, IF YOU ARE A PARTY IN A CIVIL ACTION WHICH WILL INCLUDE CUSTODY, IT

WILL INCLUDE ALL KINDS OF DOMESTIC AREAS, YOU -- THE RECORD IS NOT SEALED.

IF -- IF YOU'RE A SUBJECT OR A DEFENDANT IN A ORDER OF PROTECTION CASE, THE

RECORD IS NOT SEALED. SO I'M SATISFIED THAT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND

RELATED MATTERS ARE COVERED. WHEN IT CAME TO HOME HEALTH AIDE, I WAS

WORRIED, WHO WAS GONNA BE THERE TO HELP THE MOST VULNERABLE, AND YET

NOW IN THE LEGISLATION IT SAYS FOR THOSE THAT ARE WORKING WITH

VULNERABLE POPULATION, THE -- THE RECORD IS NOT SEALED.

SO I'M SATISFIED WITH THESE TWO EXCEPTIONS AND I VOTE

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. JACOBSON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. MAHER.

MR. MAHER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

MY VOTE. THE FIRST THING I'D LIKE TO DO IS ACKNOWLEDGE THE SPONSOR.

WE HAVE NOT HAD A TON OF TIME TO INTERACT, BUT I THOUGHT YOU HANDLED

YOURSELF VERY WELL. YOU SAT THERE FOR A WHILE, FOR HOURS, ANSWERING

FOLKS' QUESTIONS AND YOU SEEMED TO HAVE GENUINE PASSION AND

KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER. I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT

BECAUSE I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE MANY OF THE COLLEAGUES ON MY

SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO HAD THAT SAME PASSION. WHO I DO NOT BELIEVE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SPOKE THE WAY THAT THEY SPOKE FROM THEIR HEARTS FOR VOTES, THEY DID IT

BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY BELIEVE AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE PASSIONATE

ABOUT. FOR ME, I'M A BIT OF AN OUTSIDER ON THIS ISSUE. I'VE BEEN

LEARNING OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS. I GOT TO MEET SO MANY PEOPLE,

AND THE THING THAT REALLY WAS AN EDUCATION FOR ME WAS JUST HOW MANY

PEOPLE THAT I KNEW IN MY LIFE THAT WERE IMPACTED BY THIS. SO WHILE I

WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS WILL HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE, WE, ON OUR

SIDE, FOR THOSE THAT I CAN SPEAK FOR, BELIEVE THERE WERE SOME CERTAIN

ASPECTS OF IT, MYSELF SPECIFICALLY, SOME OF THE VIOLENT CASES THAT WE

BELIEVE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EXCLUDED AS WELL, AND ALSO MORE OF A PROCESS

THAT TOOK OWNERSHIP OVER AN INDIVIDUAL INSTEAD OF JUST AN AUTOMATIC

CLEAN SLATE. THAT'S WHY I WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE. BUT I DID WANT TO JUST

SAY AS SOMEONE WHO WAS HERE FOR THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS, I THOUGHT

THIS WAS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THE BEST OUR CHAMBER HAS TO OFFER IN A

DEBATE. SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT AND EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. MAHER IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN.

MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THANK YOU TO THE ADVOCATES, AND THANK YOU TO THE AMAZING

SPONSORS ON THIS BILL. I REPRESENT ASSEMBLY DISTRICT 58 IN BROOKLYN,

COVERING EAST FLATBUSH, PARTS OF CANARSIE, BROWNSVILLE AND CROWN

HEIGHTS, A PREDOMINANTLY BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITY THAT AS WE

KNOW IS DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED BY THE ARREST AND OVER-POLICING

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THAT LEADS TO INCARCERATION. IN ORDER TO TRULY BE INCLUSIVE OF ENSURING

THE VOICE OF MY COMMUNITY MEMBERS ARE EFFECTIVE LEGISLATION AND

RESOURCES, I FORMED THE ASSEMBLY DISTRICT 58 PUBLIC SAFETY TASK FORCE

WHICH INCLUDES INDIVIDUALS LIVED EXPERIENCE, JUSTICE IMPACTED AND

THOSE IMPACTED BY GUN VIOLENCE. AND YES, I WEAR ORANGE TODAY

BECAUSE OF THAT. I AM GLAD TO STAND HERE TO REPRESENT THOSE COMMUNITY

MEMBERS' VOICES. WE KNOW WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS, AND IT

REQUIRES A MULTI-FACET [SIC] APPROACH FOR A MULTI-LAYER ISSUE. THESE ARE

ONE -- THIS IS ONE OF THE APPROACHES. CLEAN SLATE IS COMMONSENSE,

HUMANE LEGISLATION. IT WILL SEAL ARREST AND CONVICTION RECORDS AFTER

PEOPLE HAVE COMPLETED THEIR SENTENCE AND REMAINED CRIME-FREE FOR A

TIME. THIS BILL ALLOWS TO SERVE THEIR TIME AND GET A SECOND CHANCE TO

BUILD A LIFE AND CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR COMMUNITIES AND FAMILIES. THIS

COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON SECOND CHANCES AND THE DREAM FOR A BETTER FUTURE.

WE HAVE FALLEN SHORT, BUT CLEAN SLATE IS A STEP FURTHER IN THAT DIRECTION.

TODAY ALL CONFLICTION -- CONVICTIONS CREATE BARRIERS AND CLEAN SLATE

ALLOW US TO BUILD PATHWAYS.

I HAVE TWO SHORT STORIES. AS YOU KNOW, IT'S GRADUATION

SEASON. AS I WAS DOING PRESS CONFERENCES AND ADVOCATING, I SAW A

DEDICATED FATHER (INAUDIBLE). HE COMPLETED PROBATION OF 26 YEARS AGO.

HE HAS A DAUGHTER WHO IS ABOUT TO ENTER COLLEGE AND HE NEEDS TO FIND

ANOTHER JOB SO HE CAN SUPPORT HER. BUT DESPITE THE PASSAGE OF MORE

THAN A QUARTER-OF-A CENTURY, HE HAS BEEN CONTINUED [SIC] DENIED

EMPLOYMENT SOLELY BECAUSE OF HIS RECORD. I HAVE ANOTHER STORY, A

PERSONAL STORY. MY FAVORITE UNCLE, HE TOOK CARE OF MY GRANDPARENTS,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

HIS PARENTS, MYSELF AND MY SIBLINGS. MOST OF MY FAMILY AND MY FATHER

WAS NOT PRESENT SO HE STEPPED IN AND FILLED THE GAP. AT EIGHT YEARS OLD,

I GOT DEVASTATING NEWS, AT THAT TIME MY FAVORITE UNCLE WAS NOT COMING

HOME. NO, HE WAS NOT KILLED, HE WAS ARRESTED. HE SPENT TEN YEARS IN

JAIL, AND I LEARNED AT AN EARLY AGE GOOD PEOPLE CAN MAKE A BAD

DECISION. AND HE CAME OUT AND WAS ABLE TO SUPPORT ME TO GO TO

COLLEGE --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CHANDLER-

WATERMAN, I'M SORRY, BUT --

MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN: OKAY. AND FOR

THOSE REASONS PEOPLE LIKE MY UNCLE (INAUDIBLE), I VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE TODAY (INAUDIBLE).

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CHANDLER-

WATERMAN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. ZINERMAN.

MS. ZINERMAN: MR. SPEAKER, PERMISSION TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I AM PROUD OF THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY TODAY FOR

STANDING UP FOR ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL JUSTICE AND FOR -- FOR NEW YORK

FAMILIES. THANK YOU TO MY SISTER FROM ANOTHER MISTER, CATALINA CRUZ,

AND MY BROTHER FROM ANOTHER MOTHER, ZELLNOR MYRIE, FOR CRAFTING A

PIECE OF LEGISLATION BORN OUT OF LOVE AND RESPECT FOR HUMANITY. I HAVE

OVER A DECADE OF EXPERIENCE IN PLACING PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE FORMERLY-

INCARCERATED, IN LIFESAVING JOBS OFFERING LIVING WAGES. AS A FORMER

SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, I HAVE HIRED RETURNING CITIZENS AND PARTICIPATED

IN ALTERNATIVES TO INCARCERATION PROGRAMS AND PROVIDED JOB

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OPPORTUNITIES FOR PAROLEES. I'VE SUPPORTED THESE EFFORTS BECAUSE I AM A

CHRISTIAN AND I BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF REDEMPTION. I AM A NEW

YORKER AND I BELIEVE IN THE MISSION OF THE NEW YORK STATE CORRECTIONS

SYSTEM WHICH OFFERS A PATHWAY TO SECOND CHANCE. I BELIEVE IN A

SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT CONSIGN PEOPLE TO PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT OR A

DEATH SENTENCE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO FEED, CLOTHE AND

HOUSE THEMSELVES. FURTHERMORE, I'VE ADVOCATED FOR CLEAN SLATE AND ITS

POLICIES DUE TO MY STRONG BELIEF IN THE TRANSFORMATIONAL POWER OF

WORK. WORK ALLOWS US TO EARN MONEY, IT SHAPES OUR PERSONAL AND

SOCIAL IDENTITY, IT ALLOWS US TO CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY, SOLVE PROBLEMS

AND FIND FULFILLMENT. WORK PLAYS A VITAL ROLE IN ENHANCING OUR

WELL-BEING AND IS A SOURCE OF SOCIAL SUPPORT, COMMUNITY, COHESION AND

CIVIC PARTICIPATION. MY FAVORITE QUOTE IS, "WORK IS LOVE MADE VISIBLE

BECAUSE IT IS."

I SERVE ON THE LABOR COMMITTEE AND SUPPORT CLEAN

SLATE BECAUSE ENTIRE INDUSTRIES INCLUDING HEALTHCARE AND TRANS --

TRANSPORTATION ARE EXPERIENCING RECORD SHORTAGES. WE NEED THE HUMAN

CAPITAL. IT IS WHY -- IT IS THE REASON THAT CHAIR JOYNER AND I HELD A

HEARING ON WORKFORCE SHORTAGES. IT IS THE REASON WHY THE BUSINESS

COUNCIL, UNIONS AND A STATEWIDE COALITION SUPPORTS THIS BILL. TODAY WE

HEARD THE POWERFUL STORY FROM OUR BROTHER EDDIE GIBBS. AND SO JUST

THINK ABOUT IT. HE WAS LUCKY BECAUSE SOMEONE LOOKED PAST HIS RECORD

AND GAVE HIM A SECOND CHANCE. SEALING THESE RECORDS WILL ALLOW

PEOPLE TO LOOK AT THE INDIVIDUAL BEFORE THEM, UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE

SERVED THEIR TIME IN PRISON, REDEEMED THEMSELVES AND WERE PAROLED BY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THIS VERY SYSTEM THAT WE SIT HERE TO SUPPORT TODAY. AND SO WE NEED

CLEAN SLATE IN THIS -- IN THIS -- IN THIS COUNTRY. I'M A PROUD -- I MEAN,

IN THE STATE, I AM A PROUD CON -- COSPONSOR. AND I BELIEVE IN THAT WE

CAN REDEEM INDIVIDUALS.

SO LET'S PASS CLEAN SLATE SO THESE INDIVIDUALS CAN BE

THE MASTERS OF THEIR FATE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. ZINERMAN, HOW

DO YOU VOTE?

MS. ZINERMAN: IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AFFIRMATIVE,

AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

MR. -- MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. CLEAN SLATE NEW YORK

IS ESSENTIAL FOR STRENGTHENING OUR COMMUNITIES BY ENSURING THAT NEW

YORKERS ARE NOT PUNISHED BEYOND --

(BABY SCREECHING)

YEAH. HE'S HAPPY ABOUT CLEAN SLATE.

(LAUGHTER)

WE WANT EVERY NEW YORKER TO BE FULL AND FAIR

PARTICIPANTS IN THE ECONOMIC AND CIVIC LIFE. THIS BILL WILL MAKE OUR

STREETS SAFER BY REDUCING RECIDIVISM WITH COMMONSENSE PROVISIONS.

THIS LEGISLATION WOULD AUTOMATICALLY SEAL CERTAIN CRIMINAL RECORDS

FROM PUBLIC ACCESS AFTER A REQUIRED WAITING PERIOD WITH A CLEAN RECORD

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THREE YEARS AFTER CONVICTION ARE RELEASED FROM JAIL FOR A MISDEMEANOR,

AND EIGHT YEARS OF -- AFTER CONVICTION OR RELEASE FROM PRISON FOR A

FELONY. WE ARE SEALING THE RECORDS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRULY

COMMITTED TO TURNING THEIR LIVES AROUND. CLEAN SLATE HELPS WITH THEIR

REHABILITATION AND REINTEGRATION INTO SOCIETY, REDUCE RECIDIVISM,

ADDRESS THE SYSTEMATIC BIASES AND PROMOTE EQUITY AND FAIRNESS.

LIKE MANY OF US, I HAVE WITNESSED AND EXPERIENCED

THE EFFECTS OF HAVING FAMILY MEMBERS INCARCERATED AND SEEN WHAT IT

HAS DONE TO THEM. I WOULD LIKE TO JOIN IN BRIEFLY SHARING MY PERSONAL

STORY. MY LATE BROTHER WAYNE, WAYNE BICHOTTE, WHO WAS LOCKED UP

SEVERAL TIMES BECAUSE HE WAS A VICTIM OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE. MY BROTHER

WAS A VERY INTELLIGENT MAN, AND A VETERAN. YES, HE WAS A VETERAN WHO

SELFLESSLY SERVED THIS COUNTRY. I REMEMBER WRITING EACH OTHER WHEN HE

WAS IN PRISON, AND WAS AMAZED AT HIS WRITING SKILLS. WE TALKED ABOUT

WHAT HE WANTED TO DO AFTER PRISON, WHAT HE WANTED TO DO IN LIFE. HE

WANTED TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND -- AND FINISH HIS DEGREE AT

NORTHEASTERN. BUT HE KEPT FINDING HIMSELF GET LOCKED UP BECAUSE HE

WAS A VICTIM. THERE WERE NO PROGRAMS FOR HIM.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. BICHOTTE

HERMELYN, HOW DO YOU VOTE?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: AND SO, MR.

SPEAKER, I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS BILL AND ALL THE ADVOCATES

AND WISH THAT MY BROTHER, WHEN HE WAS LIVING, HAD AN OPPORTUNITY OF

HAVING A CLEAN SLATE. THANK YOU. I WILL VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. BICHOTTE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

HERMELYN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. DURSO.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I FIRST WANT TO SAY I DO BELIEVE IN SECOND CHANCES,

AND WE'VE ACTUALLY HEARD SOME AMAZING STORIES TODAY IN THIS CHAMBER.

BUT THIS IS A BRIDGE TOO FAR FOR ME. SPECIFICALLY, ALLOWING THOSE WHO

COMMIT THE CRIME OF ENDANGERING THE WELFARE OF A CHILD IS TOO MUCH

FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND. SOME OF THOSE CRIMES ARE PROVIDING A CHILD WITH

ALCOHOL OR DRUGS, DRIVING A VEHICLE WHILE INTOXICATED OR IMPAIRED WITH

A CHILD IN THE CAR, ABUSING A SPOUSE IN THE PRESENCE OF A CHILD OR FAILING

TO PROVIDE FOOD, SHELTER OR MEDICAL CARE TO A CHILD IS TOO MUCH.

UNFORTUNATELY, THESE CRIMES QUALIFY TO HAVE THEIR RECORDS SEALED AND

POSSIBLY ENDANGERING MORE CHILDREN. AS A LEGISLATURE AND AS ADULTS IN

THIS BODY, OUR JOB IS TO PROTECT CHILDREN AND I FEEL LIKE WE'RE NOT DOING

THAT BY HAVING THESE CRIMES IN THIS BILL. SOMEBODY HAD SAID BEFORE,

AND I DO AGREE, INDIVIDUALS CAN CHANGE. BUT THE PAIN THAT THE VICTIMS,

ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, HAVE ENDURED IN THESE CASES WILL NEVER GO AWAY

AND THEY DON'T GET A CLEAN SLATE.

SO FOR THOSE REASONS I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DURSO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MS. KELLES.

MS. KELLES: TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. HOWEVER THE

VOTES TURN OUT HERE ON THE FLOOR, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT I'VE SEEN IN THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

PUBLIC THAT THIS IS NOT A PARTISAN BILL. I'VE TALKED TO MANY PEOPLE,

WHETHER THEY BE FROM ONE PARTY OR ANOTHER, AND I HAVE SEEN SUPPORT. I

ALSO WANT TO NOTE THAT THIS IS NOT A PRO- OR ANTI-LAW ENFORCEMENT BILL, AS

WAS EARLIER NOTED FROM AN OP-ED FROM A CHIEF OF POLICE AND FEDERAL

PROSECUTOR IN SUPPORT OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. I WANT TO ALSO NOTE

THAT THIS IS A BILL ABOUT SAFETY. WE HAVE FOUND FROM A STUDY THAT WAS

RECENTLY NOTED THAT PEOPLE WHO WERE IN MICHIGAN, WHERE THIS -- THE BILL

PASSED, THEY WERE MORE LIKELY TO GET A JOB, THEY WERE MORE LIKELY TO BE

PAID MORE AND THE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN THAT SYSTEM WERE LESS LIKELY TO

RECIDIVATE OR CAUSE ANOTHER CRIME THAN THE AVERAGE GENERAL PUBLIC.

JUST TO BE CLEAR. I HEARD EARLIER THAT WE SHOULD BE -- WE SHOULD BE

WEARY THAT THOSE WHO VOTE FOR THIS WILL HAVE TO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES

IN THE NEXT ELECTION, AND I WAS APPALLED BY THAT COMMENT BECAUSE IT IS

UP TO US WHETHER OR NOT WE MAKE THIS POLITICAL. AND WHAT I HOPE IS

THAT WE, AS A BODY, WILL FOCUS ON TEACHING RATHER THAN FEAR MONGERING.

WHEN WE LIST OVER AND OVER AGAIN DEFINITIONS OF CRIMES BUT WE DON'T

TALK ABOUT THE HUMANS, THAT IS FEAR MONGERING. BECAUSE WHAT THIS BILL

SAYS IS AFTER A PERSON HAS SERVED THEIR FULL SENTENCE, AFTER A PERSON HAS

PROVEN THEMSELVES, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO

REINTEGRATE INTO SOCIETY, TO BE A PART OF SOCIETY, TO WORK IN SOCIETY. WE

HAVE STORY AFTER STORY. HERE'S ONE: 15 YEARS AFTER RETURNING FROM

INCARCERATION, (INAUDIBLE) WAS RANDOMLY FINGERPRINTED AT A JOB HE'D

WORKED AT FOR ALMOST FIVE YEARS. WHEN HIS CONVICTION HISTORY CAME

BACK HE WAS FIRED DESPITE EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE AND A DEEP PASSION

FOR THE PEOPLE HE SERVED. AFTER THIS EXPERIENCE (INAUDIBLE) TRIED NOT TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

APPLY FOR THINGS THAT WOULD REQUIRE HIM TO DISCLOSE HIS PRIOR RECORD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. KELLES, HOW DO

YOU VOTE?

MS. KELLES: THIS IS WHAT WE ARE PREVENTING THESE

PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN SOCIETY. I VOTE ABSOLUTELY IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE AND THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HER INCREDIBLE WORK.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU VERY

MUCH. IF YOU PASS THE TWO MINUTES I WILL INTERRUPT YOU. I UNDERSTAND

THE STORIES YOU WANT TO TELL, BUT YOU'RE ON THE CLOCK.

MR. STECK.

MR. STECK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. NEW YORK

HAS NEVER HAD A LAW PROVIDING FOR EXPIRATION OF A PERSONAL -- A PERSON'S

CRIMINAL RECORD. SUCH A LAW IS BADLY OVERDUE FOR ALL THE REASONS

ARGUED BY THE SUPPORTERS OF THIS LEGISLATION. PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT IS

WRONG. BUT THE VERY SAME GOALS COULD BE ACCOMPLISHED BY

PRESUMPTIVE AUTOMATIC EXPIRATION OF A CRIMINAL CONVICTION SUBJECT TO

AN OPTIONAL PETITION FOR JUDICIAL REVIEW TO ADDRESS UNIQUE INDIVIDUAL

CIRCUMSTANCES THAT MIGHT MAKE EXPIRATION INAPPROPRIATE. WE COULD

HAVE, WITH SUCH A PROVISION, OBTAINED BROAD PUBLIC -- NOT INTEREST

GROUP, BUT PUBLIC -- SUPPORT FOR THIS BILL. BUT BECAUSE WE DID NOT I

VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. STECK IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. EPSTEIN.

MR. EPSTEIN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER AND THE SPONSOR OF THIS

BILL FOR ALL THEIR LEADERSHIP. SO, WE TALK A LOT ABOUT REDEMPTION, AND

THIS IS ABOUT FRIENDS OF MINE, MY FAMILY MEMBERS WHO HAVE DONE TIME

AND HAVE BEEN REALLY AMAZING MEMBERS OF OUR SOCIETY, AND THIS BILL IS

FOR THEM AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER NEW YORKERS WHO HAVE

CONTRIBUTED SO MUCH TO ME IN MY LIFE, TO US AS A SOCIETY, AND GIVING

THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE A FULL LIFE. WE ARE REMOVING ROADBLOCKS.

WE'RE CREATING OPPORTUNITIES. WE'RE (INAUDIBLE) THEIR FUTURE. THIS IS A

STEP ALONG THE ROAD, AS WELL AS OTHER BILLS LIKE FAIR AND TIMELY PAROLE

AND ELDER PAROLE AND (INAUDIBLE) TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE A WHOLE

PERSON BACK IN NEW YORK. THESE ARE CRITICAL STEPS, AND I'M SO PROUD

OF MY -- THE SPONSOR. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. FAHY TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. FAHY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. THE OBJECTIVE AND THE MISSION OF OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE

SYSTEM IS DESIGNED IDEALLY TO BE ONE OF REHABILITATION AND REENTRY INTO

OUR BROADER SOCIETY. IT ALSO GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRACTICE

FORGIVENESS, AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE ALL STRUGGLE WITH AT TIMES. IT'S NOT

A PERFECT BILL, I'M NOT GOING TO PRETEND THAT IT WAS. IT WAS ONE I

COSPONSORED, THEN DIDN'T, AND THEN DID AGAIN. BUT I -- I, TOO, WORK WITH

OTHERS ON -- ON HOW WE DO HAVE TO PRACTICE FORGIVENESS. I SPENT MANY,

MANY YEARS IN WASHINGTON, D.C., REMEMBERING THE BOOKS WRITTEN

ABOUT SECOND CHANCES AND MY MISSION AT THAT TIME WAS FOCUSED ON

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

DISCONNECTED YOUTH OR WHAT ARE OFTEN CONSIDERED OUT-OF-SCHOOL YOUTH.

TWO MILLION PEOPLE MAY HAVE FALL -- FALLING -- FALLEN INTO THIS CATEGORY

AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER, AND MANY OF THOSE TWO MILLION ARE RIGHT HERE IN

MY -- IN MY DISTRICT WHERE I SEE MANY, MANY BROKEN LIVES OF MANY

CONSTITUENTS WHO ARE NOT PARTICIPATING IN SOCIETY OR HAVE GIVEN UP

HOPE. MAYBE SOME OF THOSE TWO MILLION AND SOME OF MY CONSTITUENTS

WILL BE GIVEN A CHANCE BY THIS BILL BECAUSE AS WAS STATED EARLIER, THIS IS

AFTER SOMEBODY HAS PAID THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY AND THIS IS AN EFFORT TO

KEEP -- TO -- TO NOT IMPEDE THEIR FUTURE. AS WAS DEMONSTRATED AND AS

THE RESEARCH HAS SHOWN, THIS WILL BE AN ECONOMIC BOOST. IT CAN

ELIMINATE BARRIERS AND AGAIN, IT CAN GIVE OPPORTUNITIES, ESPECIALLY TO

MANY OF THOSE BROKEN LIVES AMONG MY CONSTITUENTS THAT I AM THINKING

OF TODAY. SO IN THE END I THINK GIVEN ALL OF THE TRADEOFFS, THIS BILL WILL

MAKE OUR COMMUNITIES SAFER. IT WILL ALLOW FOR THAT CRITICAL SECOND

CHANCE THAT I HAVE SPENT A LIFETIME DISCUSSING, RESEARCHING AND -- AND

TALKING ABOUT. AND I HAVE TO SAY, I KNOW WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO NAME

NAMES, BUT I JUST DEDICATE MY VOTE TO MR. GIBBS, BUT ALSO WANT TO

COMMEND THE SPONSOR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. FAHY, HOW DO

YOU VOTE, PLEASE?

MS. FAHY: AND WITH THAT I WILL VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT OFTEN YOU STAND UP TO EXPLAIN A

VOTE WITH A BOARD THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT, GIVEN THE COALITION THAT WAS BUILT

BEHIND THIS BILL. WE HAD EVERYTHING FROM FAITH LEADERS TO FAMILIES TO

BUSINESS LEADERS INCLUDING THE ROCHESTER CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. WE

HAD FORMER AND CURRENT MEMBERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT. AND, YOU KNOW,

YOU DON'T NORMALLY GET SUCH A HUGE COALITION TOGETHER ON A BILL THAT

DOESN'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, FULL SUPPORT FROM THIS CHAMBER. BUT WE DID,

AND THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE SPONSOR AND THE HARD WORK SHE DID AND

BECAUSE NOT ONLY THE COALITION, BUT THE FACT THAT THIS WILL BRING MILLIONS

-- BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF ECONOMIC IMPACT OF POSITIVE DOLLARS INTO THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. AND THAT'S REALLY BECAUSE OF WHAT THE SPONSOR HAS

DONE AND THE COALITION SHE'S BUILT AND THE -- THE -- WHAT THIS BILL WILL

ACTUALLY DO. PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS -- I'M ALWAYS QUESTIONING, WHY DON'T

PEOPLE TURN THEIR LIVES AROUND AFTER RELEASE FROM INCARCERATION. YOU

KNOW, WE HEARD ONE TIME TODAY HERE ON THE FLOOR SOMETHING ABOUT

KNOWING WHAT'S IN A PERSON'S HEART. WELL, THE FUNNY THING ABOUT OUR

SYSTEM IS IT DOESN'T ALWAYS MATTER WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART. IT MATTERS THAT

EVERY CORNER YOU TURN TO YOU'RE TOLD NO. AND SO WHEN I THINK OF THIS

BILL I DO THINK OF REDEMPTION, I DO THINK OF SECOND CHANCES, AND I DO

THINK ABOUT PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT. I THINK ABOUT GEORGE, WHO DID

WANT TO TURN HIS LIFE AROUND AFTER FOUR YEARS INCARCERATED DUE TO HIS

ALCOHOL ABUSE AND HIS NEED TO GET OVER THAT. BUT HE DIDN'T RETURN HOME

JUST TO HIMSELF, HE RETURNED HOME TO HIS TWO DAUGHTERS. DO WE HAVE TO

GIVE THEM PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT? EVERY JOB HE WENT TO, HE DID GREAT

IN THE INTERVIEW THREE TIMES AND WAS TURNED AWAY AT THE BACKGROUND

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

CHECK. SAME FOR HOUSING, SAME FOR LIFE INSURANCE. WHEN WE TALK

ABOUT PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT, IT IS NOT JUST THE PERSON WHO SERVED, IT IS

THE CHILDREN OF THAT PERSON WHO JUST WANT THEIR DAD TO BE ABLE TO GET

THEM HOUSING, TO BE ABLE TO GET THEM A JOB, TO BE ABLE TO GET LIFE

INSURANCE AND FEEL LIKE THEY'RE IN A GOOD PLACE. I COMMEND THE

SPONSOR FOR ALL HER DETERMINATION --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CLARK, HOW DO

YOU VOTE?

MS. CLARK: -- AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. CLARK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. GIGLIO.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. SO, I RAN A

STEEL PLANT FROM 2005 TO 2015, AND WE PARTICIPATED IN JAIL TO JOBS.

AND WE GOT MANY GREAT EMPLOYEES, AND WE GOT SOME BAD THAT LEFT WITH

A BOX KNIFE AND WENT AND CUT SOMEBODY FROM EAR TO EAR WITH A BOX

CUTTER. OUR SHERIFF WORKS TOWARDS REHABILITATION FOR EVERYBODY THAT IS

IN THE SUFFOLK COUNTY JAIL. THEY GET THEIR GED, THERE ARE SMART

BOARDS IN EVERY CONFERENCE ROOM, THERE'S TEACHERS THAT COME THAT ARE

WORKING ON REENTRY. BUT HE DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT 2.3 MILLION PEOPLE CAN

BE REHABILITATED. WE CAN ONLY HOPE AND PRAY THAT WE CAN GET MOST OF

THEM. BUT THE CRIME STARTS AT A YOUNGER AGE, AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED

TO FOCUS ON AND I KNOW THAT WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT ON THAT AND MAKING

THAT HAPPEN.

YOU KNOW, I WAS BURGLARIZED AND MY KIDS ARE STILL

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TRAUMATIZED FROM IT. I WAS BURGLARIZED BY BLOOD GANG MEMBERS THAT

CAME BACK TO MY HOUSE AND PARKED IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE AND

THREATENED MY KIDS. YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT.

FAMILIES HAVE LOST LOVED ONES FROM DRUGS, GANG ASSAULTS, ARSON, ASSAULT

WITH DEADLY WEAPONS THAT LEADS TO DEATH. BURGLARY IN THE FIRST DEGREE.

THAT'S PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT BECAUSE THEIR LOVED ONES ARE NEVER

COMING HOME. EVERY DAY THEY DID NOT COMMIT A CRIME. I PRAY THAT WE

FIX THE SYSTEM IN THIS STATE AND WE WORK ON OUR YOUTH AND WE MAKE

SURE THAT THEY ARE GUIDED. I HAVE MANY FRIENDS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE

AISLE THAT TELL ME THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE IN THEIR DISTRICTS. I'M LOOKING

FORWARD TO GOING INTO NEW YORK CITY AND SPENDING TIME WITH YOU OR

GOING TO BUFFALO AND GOING TO EVERY CORNER OF THIS STATE TO WORK WITH

YOU TO FIX THE PROBLEM WITH OUR YOUTH SO THEY DON'T GET INTO CRIMES.

AND BY THE WAY, THE PERSON THAT BURGLARIZED MY HOUSE IN THE BLOOD

GANG MEMBER, HE WAS WHITE. CRIME DOES NOT HAVE COLOR. SO THAT'S

THE PROBLEM, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO WORK ON, BUT NOT EVERYBODY CAN BE

REHABILITATED, AND SOME PEOPLE BELONG IN JAIL.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GIGLIO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. KIM TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. KIM: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. ON NOVEMBER

25, 2017 I LOST A CONSTITUENT NAMED YANG SONG. SHE WAS 38 YEARS OLD,

SHE WAS WORKING IN THE INFORMER SECTOR. AND DURING A TARGETED RAID BY

VICE NYPD SHE WAS FORCED OFF THE BALCONY, SUFFERING FOR HOURS ON THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SIDEWALK AND DIED PAINFULLY IN THE HOSPITAL. HER MOM FLEW IN FROM

CHINA, HER BROTHER WORKED TIRELESSLY TO GET JUSTICE FOR WHAT HAPPENED

TO HER. AND AS WE FOUGHT FOR HER JUSTICE AND ACCOUNTABILITY, WE STARTED

DIVING INTO WHAT HAPPENED TO HER. HOW DID SHE END UP IN THIS PLACE,

WORKING IN THIS MASSAGE PARLOR, AND WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THESE OTHER

MIGRANTS AND IMMIGRANTS IN THE STREETS OF FLUSHING? AND ONE BY ONE

THEY STARTED TO COME INTO MY OFFICE, WORKING ON RESUMES, LINKING THEM

TO ADULT LITERACY, AND ONE BY ONE THEY ENCOUNTERED THE SAME PROBLEM:

CRIMINAL RECORDS, CRIMINAL RECORDS AND MORE CRIMINAL RECORDS AND THEY

COULD NOT JOIN THE EMPLOYMENT SECTOR AT ALL. SO WE EVENTUALLY FELT AND

REALIZED -- AND REALIZED THERE WAS A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM HERE. AND IT IS

TRUE ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY, WE LIVE IN THE WEALTHIEST STATE IN THE ENTIRE

COUNTRY, BUT WE HAVE THE WORST SOCIAL UPPER MOBILITY AND TODAY WE'RE

RECTIFYING THAT. TODAY IS ABOUT RECTIFYING THE INJUSTICE THAT PUT PEOPLE

DOWN FOR DECADES. WE ARE LIBERATING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SO THEY CAN

HAVE A CHANCE AT UPPER MOBILITY, INCLUDING PEOPLE IN MY COMMUNITY,

INCLUDING THE ASIAN-AMERICAN IMMIGRANTS, AND THAT IS WHY ON BEHALF

OF YANG SONG, I THANK THE SPEAKER, I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR DOING A

COURAGEOUS VICTORY TODAY.

THANK YOU. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. KIM IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. SEPTIMO.

MS. SEPTIMO: THANK YOU. I AM EXCITED TO VOTE FOR

THIS BILL BECAUSE THIS IS A BILL THAT CONCERNS ITSELF WITH BUILDING A

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT IS FOCUSED ON JUSTICE. A CRIMINAL JUSTICE

SYSTEM THAT ENDS PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT. A CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT

TRULY CENTERS CONCEPTS OF REHABILITATION, OF REDEMPTION, OF SECOND

CHANCES OF PROGRESS. THIS LAW CENTER IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. MANY TIMES

TODAY WE HAVE HEARD PEOPLE NAME SPECIFIC OFFENSES, SPECIFIC CRIMES

AND SAY EVEN THOSE PEOPLE DESERVE A CHANCE. EVEN THOSE PEOPLE

DESERVE A SECOND OPPORTUNITY. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHY WE NEED THIS

BILL. BECAUSE OUR COMMUNITY, OUR SOCIETY, HAVE DECIDED THAT WE WILL

MAKE MORAL JUDGMENTS ON PEOPLE'S ACTIONS AND DECIDE WHO GETS TO

MOVE ON AND WHO DOESN'T. WE HAVE REDUCED PEOPLE TO EXIST IN THEIR

WORST MOMENT FROM THEIR PAST, AFTER THEY HAVE PAID THEIR DEBT TO

SOCIETY. AFTER THEY HAVE MADE ALL LEGALLY-MANDATED AMENDS. TODAY

WE ARE SAYING THAT SECOND CHANCES AND REDEMPTION ARE TRULY FOR

EVERYONE HERE IN NEW YORK. TODAY WE ARE SAYING YOU WILL NO LONGER

BE BARRED FROM ACCESSING HOUSING, EDUCATION, EMPLOYMENT

OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE OF A MISTAKE YOU MADE IN YOUR PAST. AND TODAY

WE ARE MAKING A LAW THAT SAYS THE MISTAKES OF YOUR PAST WILL NOT

HINDER THE PROGRESS OF YOUR FUTURE. AND WHILE MANY PEOPLE HAVE

MENTIONED FEELING -- FEELINGS OF FORGIVENESS, OF KINDNESS, OF

CHRISTIANITY, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT, NOBLE CAUSES. BUT NONE

OF THOSE ARE WHAT THIS LAW IS ABOUT. THIS LAW IS ABOUT JUSTICE. THIS

LAW IS ABOUT GIVING 2.3 MILLION NEW YORKERS WHAT THEY DESERVE, AND

THAT IS FREEDOM FROM THE MISTAKES OF THEIR PAST. AND FOR THAT REASON I

WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SEPTIMO IN THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR, MY DEAR FRIEND, WHO ALONG WITH HER

INCREDIBLE STAFF HAVE WORKED SO HARD TO GET THIS BILL ACROSS THE FINISH

LINE. I WANT TO RECOGNIZE AND THANK OUR SPEAKER, THE CENTRAL STAFF, THE

SENATE SPONSOR AND ALL THE ADVOCATES WHO ARE HERE IN THE ROOM. I'M

ROOTING FOR (INAUDIBLE) WHO HAVE SUPPORTED PASSAGE OF THIS BILL. THIS

LEGISLATION IS ULTIMATELY ABOUT SECOND CHANCES. THIS IS ABOUT WHETHER

WE BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE WHO HAS SERVED THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY SHOULD

HAVE A NEW LEASE ON LIFE. HOW DO WE EXPECT SOMEONE TO CONTRIBUTE TO

SOCIETY IF THEY CAN'T ACCESS EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION OR HOUSING? THE

RESEARCH ON REENTRY IS CLEAR; WITHOUT ACCESS TO BASIC RESOURCES,

RECIDIVISM IS HIGHER. THIS IS AN ECONOMIC JUSTICE ISSUE. IT IS GOOD FOR

THE DIGNITY OF FORMERLY-INCARCERATED PEOPLE, IT IS GOOD FOR THE PUBLIC

SAFETY AND IT'S GOOD FOR OUR ECONOMY. NEW YORKERS DESERVE A CLEAN

SLATE, AND WE MUST KEEP WORKING TOWARDS ADDITIONAL PATHWAYS FOR

PEOPLE IN PRISON BY ADVOCATING FOR ELDER PAROLE AND FAIR AND TIMELY

PAROLE.

I'M GONNA QUICKLY SHARE THE STORY OF JOSIELLE

(PHONETIC), A PROUD MOTHER OF THREE. SHE HAD PLANS AND DREAMS TO GO

TO COLLEGE AND BE THE FIRST IN HER FAMILY TO GET A DEGREE, BUT ALL THAT --

ALL THAT GOT INTERRUPTED WHEN SHE BECAME ONE OF THE 2.3 MILLION NEW

YORKERS WITH A CONVICTION HISTORY. BECAUSE OF HER RECORD, JOSIELLE

(PHONETIC) CAN'T RETURN TO WORK OR UTILIZE ALL THE NEW SKILLS THAT SHE'S

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACQUIRED TO GET BETTER EMPLOYMENT TO SUSTAIN HER FAMILY. SHE COULDN'T

LEAVE A LOW-PAYING JOB BECAUSE WHAT COMES UP IN HER BACKGROUND

CHECK PREVENTED HER FROM GETTING A NEW JOB. SHE COULDN'T MAKE

ENOUGH MONEY TO GO BACK TO COLLEGE OR FULFILL HER DREAMS. THIS BILL

WILL CHANGE THE LIFE OF JOSIELLE (PHONETIC) AND MILLIONS OF REAL LIVES

LIKE HERS SO THEY CAN BECOME CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS OF SOCIETY.

MR. SPEAK -- SPEAKER, I PROUDLY AFFIR -- VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. LUNSFORD TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

TRULY COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL, BECAUSE WE TAKE A LOT OF FLACK

IN THIS BODY FOR RUSHING BILLS THROUGH. AND I'M A LAWYER. I HAVE A LOT

OF CONCERNS ABOUT THIS BILL, AND WHEN I BROUGHT THEM UP TO THE SPONSOR

SHE MET THEM WITH RESPECT AND WITH CONSIDERATION AND WITH

DELIBERATION. SHE MET WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, DEFENDERS, PROSECUTORS,

VICTIMS' ADVOCATES GROUPS, COUNTY CLERKS, AND EVERY TIME A CONCERN

WAS RAISED SHE INCORPORATED THOSE CONCERNS WITH DELIBERATION AND

COMPROMISE INTO THIS BILL. I SEE WE ARE ON A C-PRINT. I CAN'T BELIEVE

WE'RE NOT ON A P-PRINT WITH HOW MUCH WORK WAS PUT INTO THIS BILL. AND

IT'S BECAUSE OF THAT CONSCIENTIOUS AND CAREFUL DELIBERATION THAT I VOTE IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS BILL.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LUNSFORD IN THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. BURDICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

MY VOTE. MICHIGAN IS ONE OF THE STATES WHICH ACTED BEFORE NEW YORK

IN THIS AREA. THE CATO INSTITUTE, A PUBLIC POLICY RESEARCH ORGANIZATION,

IN 2020 REPORTED THE RESULTS OF THEIR EXHAUSTIVE STUDY OF EMPIRICAL

EVIDENCE IN COOPERATION WITH THE STATE, SHOWING MARKED INCREASES IN

EMPLOYMENT AND MARKED DECLINES IN RECIDIVISM. NEW YORK'S CLEAN

SLATE LAW WILL FULFILL ITS PROMISES, PROVIDING THE OVERDUE OPPORTUNITY TO

SO MANY OF THOSE 2.3 MILLION FORMERLY-INCARCERATED WHO HAVE BEEN

DENIED EMPLOYMENT, HOUSING, HEALTHCARE AND THE CHANCE TO GO BACK

INTO THEIR COMMUNITIES AND LEAD -- LIVE THEIR NEW AND REDEEMED LIVES.

AND THOSE 2.3 MILLION ARE OVERWHELMINGLY PEOPLE OF COLOR. THIS IS

ABOUT REDEMPTION AND COMPASSION, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT JOBS AND THE

NEW YORK ECONOMY. THIS IS ABOUT SOCIAL, RACIAL AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE.

THIS IS ABOUT USHERING IN AN EFFECTIVE PUBLIC SAFETY PROGRAM. THIS IS

ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS NEW YORKERS, OUR VALUES AND OUR VISION TO DO

WHAT IS RIGHT IN PURSUING THOSE VALUES.

I AM HONORED AND PROUD TO BE HERE IN THE PEOPLE'S

HOUSE TO PROUDLY VOTE FOR THIS MEASURE. ONCE AGAIN, NEW YORK SHOWS

ITS VISION AND RECOGNITION OF WHAT CAN BE DONE TO IMPROVE LIVES AND TO

SHOW WHO WE ARE AS A PEOPLE. I PROUDLY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

THANK YOU. MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BURDICK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. DILAN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. DILAN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'M GOING TO

START OUT BY SAYING I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS MATTER

BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO FORGET THAT AT THE END. AND I WANT TO START BY

SPEAKING TO MY CONSTITUENTS AND TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE. I'M VOTING

YES BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT THE MATTER BEFORE US IS JUST, AND I WANT TO

SPEAK FOR A MOMENT ABOUT REFORM. YOU KNOW, FOR ALL THE PEOPLE WHO

GO INTO PRISON, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE SOCIETAL BELIEFS WE HAVE AS A STATE

AND AS A COUNTRY IS THAT IF YOU'RE INCARCERATED, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO

REFORM YOUR LIFE AND PAY YOUR PENALTY AND PAY YOUR DUES IN ORDER TO BE

REINTEGRATED INTO SOCIETY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU'VE BEEN CHARGED. SO

THE MEASURE BEFORE US TODAY HAS INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE COMPLETED THEIR

TIME IN PRISON, HAVE REFORMED THEMSELVES IN PRISON, HAVE GONE THROUGH

A THREE-YEAR OR EIGHT-YEAR WINDOW IN SOCIETY TO PROVE THAT THEY'VE BEEN

REFORMED. SO THEY HAVE A TRACK RECORD OF REFORM. WE'RE NOT GIVING

THEM ANYTHING THAT THEY HAVE NOT EARNED. NOW, I HEAR SOME SPEECHES

ON THE FLOOR OF MEMBERS OF BOTH PARTIES SAYING THAT THEY'RE AGAINST THIS

BECAUSE OF JUDICIAL DISCRETION. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE FOLKS, YOU

KNOW, WHO -- WHO SIT IN THIS CHAMBER BELIEVE JUDGES SHOULDN'T BE

WRITING LAWS. WELL, HERE WE ARE TODAY WRITING LAW AND SETTING A

STANDARD FOR OUR STATE TO SAY, IF YOU FOLLOW THESE RULES, IF YOU

COMMITTED A CRIME AND YOU'VE REFORMED, HERE'S YOUR AUTOMATIC WAY

OUT BECAUSE YOU FOLLOWED WHAT WE PRESCRIBED AS A STATE TO BE A PATH

TOWARDS REFORM. NOW, WE'VE HEARD ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, AND OBVIOUSLY

IF YOU'RE A RECIDIVIST CRIMINAL THIS IS NOT GONNA HELP YOU, AND WE'RE NOT

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LOOKING TO HELP YOU. YOU DON'T WANT TO BECOME A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER

OF THIS STATE AND OUR SOCIETY. I WISH I WOULD HAVE SPOKE ON THE BILL.

I'M VOTING UP, BUT TO SAY FOR THOSE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS, IF WE ASK

THEM TO REFORM, AS A STATE WE NEED TO LOOK AT OURSELVES AND SAY IS IT

THEM THAT NEEDS --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. DILAN, HOW DO

YOU VOTE, SIR, PLEASE?

MR. DILAN: I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. REYES TO EXPLAIN HIS -- HER VOTE.

MS. REYES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WASN'T

GOING TO SPEAK ON THIS BILL BECAUSE THE SPONSOR KNOWS HOW SUPPORTIVE

I AM AND HOW PERSONAL THIS ISSUE IS FOR ME. BUT I FELT I JUST HAD TO

SHARE MY STORY. I WANT TO DEDICATE THIS VOTE TO MY HUSBAND WHO AT 19

YEARS OLD -- HE'S BEEN SERVING THE CITY OF NEW YORK SINCE HE WAS 19

AND AT 24 YEARS OLD FOUND HIMSELF IN AN IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION. AND

EVEN THOUGH HE WENT THROUGH ALL THE RIGHT CHANNELS -- PEER MEDIATION,

CONFLICT RESOLUTION, GOT AN ORDER OF PROTECTION AGAINST SOMEBODY WHO

WAS COMING AFTER HIM -- FOUND HIMSELF HAVING TO ACT IN SELF-DEFENSE

AND WAS CHARGED, PAID BAIL, SERVED PAROLE. AND IN SPITE OF HIS RECORD

HAS BUILT AN INCREDIBLE CAREER THAT I AM SO PROUD OF HIM FOR. I KNOW

THAT BECAUSE OF THIS, TONIGHT HE WILL SLEEP BETTER.

SO I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR. I VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. REYES IN THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AFFIRMATIVE.

(APPLAUSE)

MS. DARLING TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. DARLING: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. INCARCERATION DOES NOT JUST HAPPEN TO THE

INCARCERATED. IT IS AN EXPERIENCE THAT IMPACTS ENTIRE FAMILIES AND

COMMUNITIES. UNDERSTANDING THE ENORMOUS INJUSTICES BUILT INTO THE

JUSTICE SYSTEM PLACES SO MUCH MORE WEIGHT ON THE INCARCERATION

PROCESS AND EXPERIENCE. WHEN YOU CONSIDER WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS AND

THE SYSTEMIC RACISM THAT LEAVE SO MANY IN POVERTY AND THE FACT THAT

POVERTY AND CRIME ARE SO CLOSELY RELATED, THESE ARE THE REASONS THE

CLEAN SLATE ACT IS SO VITAL. OUR COMMUNITIES OF COLOR ARE HEAVILY

IMPACTED BY CONVICTIONS THAT FOLLOW PEOPLE FOR DECADES AFTER THEY HAVE

SERVED THEIR SENTENCES. THESE CONVICTIONS OFTEN PREVENT PEOPLE FROM

OBTAINING AND RETAINING EMPLOYMENT AS WELL AS ADVANCING

PROFESSIONALLY. INDIVIDUALS WHO'VE BEEN RELEASED AFTER SERVING THEIR

SENTENCES MAY ALSO FIND THEIR HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES IMPACTED UPON

RELEASE FROM PRISON. A CLEAN SLATE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR INDIVIDUALS

WHO HAVE ALLOWED TIME AND REFORMATION MEASURES TO RENDER THEM A

SECOND CHANCE AT LIFE BEYOND BARS. LIFE WITH THEIR FAMILIES, LIFE WITH

THEIR COMMUNITIES, LIFE WITH FREEDOM. I'M HAPPY TO COMMIT ALL THAT I

CAN TO ENSURE THAT THE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS OVERHAULED AND BECOMES AS JUST

AND HUMANE AS POSSIBLE.

I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL AND THE

INCREDIBLY DEDICATED AND VERY PERSISTENT ADVOCATES AND FIGHTERS FOR

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BELIEVING IN THIS CAUSE AND NEVER GIVING UP. IT MEANS EVERYTHING. I'M

A VERY PROUD SPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK

YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. MS.

DARLING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. ROSENTHAL TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. ROSENTHAL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE

TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I AM SO PROUD OF THIS NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY,

THE SPONSOR AND THE SPEAKER OF THIS IMPORTANT LEGISLATION. A PERSON

SHOULD NOT BE JUDGED BY THEIR WORST MISTAKE. WHEN A PERSON HAS

COMMITTED A CRIME, HAS GONE ON TO SERVE THEIR TIME, PAID THEIR DEBT TO

SOCIETY, WHAT MORE DO WE WANT FROM THEM? WE WANT THEM TO GO ON TO

HAVE A GOOD LIFE, TO FIND HOUSING, TO GET A GOOD JOB, TO HAVE A FAMILY IF

THEY WANT, TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THEM. YET WE HAMSTRING THEM BY

HAVING THEIR RECORD FOLLOW THEM EVERYWHERE THEY GO. THAT ENDS WITH

THE PASSAGE OF CLEAN SLATE. THIS BILL IS ESSENTIALLY ONE OF HOPE. HOPE

AND REDEMPTION, TELLING PEOPLE IN PRISON, YOU DO YOUR TIME, YOU COME

OUT, EIGHT YEARS LATER YOU CAN BE FREE. IT'S NOT EASY TO WAIT EIGHT YEARS

PLUS THE TIME SERVED, BUT THIS IS A FAIR BILL. AND THIS WILL HELP SO MANY

PEOPLE IN NEW YORK STATE GET JOBS, FIND DECENT AFFORDABLE HOUSING,

SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES, LET THEM BECOME A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF

SOCIETY AS THEY DREAM ABOUT IN PRISON.

SO I AM VERY GRATEFUL FOR THIS AND I VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. ROSENTHAL IN THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. DAVILA.

MS. DAVILA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FIRST, I JUST WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS

BILL. SHE IS A VERY COURAGEOUS WOMAN, VERY, VERY STRONG ADVOCATE ON

SOCIAL JUSTICE. HAVING A CRIMINAL RECORD IS STIGMATIZING. IT STICKS WITH

YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. I KNOW I'M NOT THE SAME PERSON I WAS 20,

30 YEARS AGO. I'M SURE THAT EVERYONE HERE FEELS THE SAME. I ALSO

UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM, AND I'M SURE OF THIS, KNOWS

SOMEONE, HAS A FAMILY MEMBER, THAT HAS COMMITTED A CRIME AND THAT

THEY FEEL THAT THEY DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE. THIS IS ABOUT GIVING

SECOND CHANCES. WE TALK ABOUT RECIDIVISM. WE TALK ABOUT GETTING THE

-- THE ECONOMY ON ROLE. HOW ARE WE GONNA DO THAT IF WE DO NOT GIVE

PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO -- TO WORK AND PAY THEIR DUES TO SOCIETY?

HAVING A CRIMINAL RECORD CAN HAVE A LONG-LASTING EFFECT LEADING TO

SOCIAL EXCLUSION AND DISCRIMINATION. CLEAN SLATE LEGISLATION HELPS TO

RESTORE INDIVIDUALS' DIGNITY BY REMOVING THE BARRIERS ASSOCIATED WITH

THEIR PAST CONVICTIONS. IT ALLOWS THEM TO REINTEGRATE INTO THEIR

COMMUNITIES, FOSTER POSITIVE RELATIONSHIPS AND REGAIN THEIR SENSE OF

BELONGING. THIS SHOULD ONLY BE THE FRESH -- FIRST STEP. JUST UNDERSTAND

THAT CLEAN SLATE HAS TWO -- HAS A BROTHER AND A SISTER THAT IS WAITING TO

BE PASSED AS WELL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. -- MS. DAVILA,

HOW DO YOU VOTE?

MS. DAVILA: I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AND LET'S

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

REMEMBER THAT ELDER PAROLE AND FAIR AND TIMELY PAROLE IS WAITING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

MS. DAVILA: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NOVAKHOV TO

EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU

KNOW, I WISH I DID A WRONG THING PRESSING THE RED BUTTON. I WISH THAT

THIS BILL WILL WORK. I WISH THIS BILL IS GOOD. I WISH IN A FEW YEARS I WILL

STAND HERE AND SAY I'M SORRY, I'M SORRY I DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A

GOOD BILL. I WISH THIS WILL HAPPEN. I WISH IT'S A GOOD BILL BUT, YOU

KNOW, WE'LL SEE. THE ONLY THING I WAS AMAZED WITH IS WHEN SEVERAL

MEMBERS OF THIS ASSEMBLY, OF THIS HOUSE, MENTIONED THAT THE

INCARCERATED PEOPLE ARE THE MOST VULNERABLE ONES. REALLY? IT'S NOT THE

CHILDREN? IT'S NOT THE ELDERLY? IT'S NOT THE VICTIMS OF THE CRIME? DO

YOU REALIZE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? DO YOU REALLY THINK THESE ARE THE MOST

VULNERABLE PEOPLE?

UNFORTUNATELY, I CANNOT SUPPORT THIS BILL, BUT I WISH

THIS WILL BE A GOOD BILL. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NOVAKHOV IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THROUGHOUT THIS

DEBATE TODAY THERE SEEMS TO BE THIS UNDERLINING CURRENT OR BELIEF THAT IF

YOU HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME THERE'S NO SECOND CHANCE IN NEW YORK.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THAT YOUR CRIMINAL RECORD WILL FOLLOW YOU FOREVER, FOR THE REST OF YOUR

LIFE. THAT IT'S PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT. THAT THERE'S NO BREAK FOR YOU.

THAT IS JUST NOT TRUE. NEW YORK HAS MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE WAYS TO ADDRESS

A CRIMINAL RECORD. UNDER THE CORRECTIONS LAW, YOU CAN GET A

CERTIFICATE OF RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES. YOU CAN GET IT FROM THE COURT.

OR IF IT'S A CRIME THAT OCCURRED OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK STATE YOU CAN GET

IT THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES, DOCS. SECOND,

YOU CAN GET A CERTIFICATE OF GOOD STAND -- GOOD CONDUCT, AS ONE OF

OUR COLLEAGUES DID. IT WAS A SUCCESS STORY. YOU CAN GET THAT AFTER FIVE

YEARS BY GOING THROUGH DOCS. THIRD, YOU CAN SEAL THE RECORD. YOU

CAN HAVE YOUR RECORD SEALED. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO 15 YEARS WITH A

CRIMINAL RECORD FOR JUMPING A TURNSTILE. YOU CAN GET IT SEALED. ALL YOU

NEED TO DO IS MAKE A MOTION AND THE COURT WILL SEAL IT. BUT LET'S SAY

YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANY OF THOSE STEPS. GRANTED, THOSE OTHER STEPS

REQUIRE YOU TO ASK SOMEONE TO REVIEW YOUR APPLICATION. EVEN IF YOU

DON'T FOLLOW THOSE STEPS, OUR HUMAN RIGHTS LAW IS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR

THAT AN EMPLOYER IS NOT ALLOWED TO DISCRIMINATE AND IT'S BACKED BY THE

HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION.

BECAUSE WE HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE PROGRAM IN PLACE,

SIR, WE DON'T NEED TO ELIMINATE ALL JUDICIAL DISCRETION AND GRANT

AUTOMATIC SEALING, WHICH IS WHAT THIS BILL DOES AND I CAN'T SUPPORT IT.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I AM ABSOLUTELY

IMPRESSED WITH THE CONVERSATION THAT WENT ON HERE TODAY. IT TEACHES

ME A LOT OF THINGS, IT'S VERY INFORMATIVE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BECAME

REAL CLEAR, MR. SPEAKER, IS THAT THE PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX IS REAL.

IT'S NOT JUST A TERMINOLOGY, IT'S REAL, IT HAS A HUGE IMPACT ON OUR

ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT. BUT I ALSO CLEARLY UNDERSTAND NOW, MUCH LIKE

I DID DURING THE COURSE OF UNDERSTANDING THIS LEGISLATION, IS THAT THAT

ECONOMIC DRIVER CAN BE TURNED AROUND AND THE BUSINESS COUNCIL CAN

BE DRIVING IT AS OPPOSED TO OUR PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX SYSTEM. AND

SO IT'S A CHALLENGE TO BREAK AWAY FROM SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE ALWAYS

USED TO DOING, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT CLEARLY. BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT

IS SO CRITICAL, AND I BELIEVE TO MY COLLEAGUE WHO MENTIONED HE WISHED?

WELL, IN A FEW YEARS YOU ARE GOING TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT YOU WISHED FOR

BECAUSE THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO RIGHT

NOW. AND THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD, MR. SPEAKER, IS THAT THE SPONSOR

JUST DID A PHENOMENAL JOB IN PRESENTING THE DEBATE. PHENOMENAL JOB

AND THE WORK TO GET UP TO GETTING THIS DONE. I APPRECIATE THE ADVOCATES,

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I APPRECIATE THE SPEAKER. I APPRECIATE THE

SPEAKER BECAUSE HE MADE A COMMITMENT THAT HE WAS GOING TO WORK ON

REFORMING THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. AND EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE HAVE

BEEN FIGHTING THE WHOLE WAY IN ORDER TO DO THAT, IT IS GOING TO MAKE LIFE

BETTER FOR EVERYBODY. AND IT'S HARD TO SEE THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE SO USED

TO ONE THING. BUT WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE'S LIVES

THRIVE AND THEIR COMMUNITIES' LIVES GROW. IT IS GOING TO BE JUST BETTER

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

FOR ALL OF US. IT'S GONNA BE A -- IT'S A HARD PILL TO SWALLOW RIGHT NOW, BUT

WHAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF IS WHAT WAS MENTIONED BY OUR COLLEAGUE

EARLIER, IS TRUST. TRUST THAT THIS IS GOING TO WORK. I'M SURE IT WILL AND

YOU WILL APPRECIATE IT AT THE END OF THE DAY.

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE WORK YOU PUT INTO THIS, AND I'M

HAPPY --

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WANT TO

COMMEND THE SPONSOR AGAIN, ALL OF THE ADVOCATES, THE SENATE SPONSOR,

SENATOR MYRIE. AND AS I SAID, THE ADVOCATES HAVE WORKED SO HARD,

ESPECIALLY MARVIN MAYFIELD. YOU KNOW, THE BEST TOOLS FOR PUBLIC

SAFETY ARE A JOB AND AN EDUCATION. AND TOO MANY JUSTICE-INVOLVED

INDIVIDUALS WERE DENIED A DECENT EDUCATION, LIMITING THEIR EMPLOYMENT

OPPORTUNITIES. AND THAT INCLUDES THAT BURDEN FALLS MORE HEAVILY ON

BLACK AND BROWN NEW YORKERS AND THOSE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

AND A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS HELD UP AT GUNPOINT, I WENT AND

LOOKED AT THREE PRECINCTS WORTH OF PICTURES, AND WHAT I NOTICED WAS

EASILY A THIRD WERE OBVIOUSLY IDENTIFIABLE AS PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES,

VERY OFTEN INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES. SO WHEN YOU LACK BASIC

OPPORTUNITIES, WHEN YOU ARE A SURVIVOR OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE WHO

DEFENDS THEMSELVES, YOUR CHANCES OF RUNNING AFOUL WITH THE LAW

INCREASE ASTRONOMICALLY. WHEN YOU HAVE PAID YOUR DEBT TO SOCIETY YOU

DESERVE A CHANCE FOR A NEW LIFE, NOT DOORS TO EDUCATION AND

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

EMPLOYMENT SHUT IN YOUR FACE. THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE MADE

THEIR OWN CLEAN SLATE - PROPS TO MR. GIBBS - THE FACT -- THAT DOES NOT

ABSOLVE US OF THE OBLIGATION TO GIVE OTHERS A CLEAN SLATE THAT THEY NEED

AND DESERVE. THE EDUCATION THEY NEED AND DESERVE, THE EMPLOYMENT

OPPORTUNITIES THAT THEY NEED AND DESERVE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR

COMMUNITIES AND LIVE PRODUCTIVE LIVES. AND TODAY WE WILL END

PERPETUAL PUNISHMENT IN NEW YORK. TODAY WE WILL ENDORSE

REDEMPTION.

I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SIMON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. SHIMSKY TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. SHIMSKY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. MORE

THAN 1/10TH OF THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF NEW YORK STATE HAS A MILLSTONE

HANGING AROUND THEIR NECKS FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. HOW COULD THIS

POSSIBLY BE? PART OF THE REASON IS STARTING IN THE LATE 80'S AND THE EARLY

1990'S, MANY THINGS THAT WERE ATTRIBUTED IN THE PAST TO STUPID KIDS

DOING STUPID THINGS BECAME CRIMINALIZED. OF COURSE THAT

CRIMINALIZATION AFFECTED EVERYONE, BUT PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN CERTAIN RACE

-- IN CERTAIN ZIP CODES OR MEMBERS OF CERTAIN RACES WERE AFFECTED FAR

WORSE. THESE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT HOME AND GOTTEN A

GOOD STERN TALKING TO BY THEIR PARENTS IN PAST GENERATIONS, BUT INSTEAD

MANY OF THEM ARE FACING LIFETIME CONSEQUENCES THAT ARE TEARING DOWN

OUR -- OUR ECONOMY AND ARE TEARING DOWN OUR SOCIETY. IT'S TIME TO

MOVE ON FROM THE PERPETUAL OVER-PUNISHMENT. AND THIS BILL MAKES

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SURE THAT THERE ARE SAFEGUARDS FOR THE MOST VULNERABLE AMONG US.

THOSE WHO WORKED IN CERTAIN OCCUPATIONAL GROUPS THAT TAKE CARE OF OUR

MOST VULNERABLE ARE EXEMPTED FROM CLEAN SLATE. REPORTABLE SEX

CRIMES, OTHER SERIOUS VIOLENT CRIMES ARE ALL EXEMPTED FROM THIS LAW.

AND THE BIGGEST SAFEGUARD, IF YOU ARE ABLE TO LIVE UNDER THESE

DISABILITIES FOR EIGHT YEARS AND NOT EVEN GET A TICKET FOR JAYWALKING,

YOU KNOW WHAT? I THINK WE CAN TRUST YOU.

SO, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALL THESE REASONS AND ANYMORE --

MANY MORE, I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU SO VERY

MUCH. MS. SHIMSKY IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

(APPLAUSE/CHEERS)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MEMBERS, MEMBERS, MEMBERS. THANK YOU VERY

MUCH, MEMBERS.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR

DESKS AN A-CALENDAR. MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU WOULD MOVE THAT

A-CALENDAR NOW.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

(PAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES

AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS, IF I COULD HAVE YOUR ATTENTION

PLEASE. WE YET STILL HAVE QUITE A BIT OF THE PEOPLE'S BUSINESS TO DO. SO

WE'RE GOING TO GO RIGHT TO PAGE 6, RULES REPORT NO. 803 BY MS.

WALKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL READ

-- PAGE 6, RULES REPORT NO. 803, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07760, RULES REPORT

NO. 803, WALKER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO

PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING; AND TO REPEAL SECTION 11 OF PART ZZZ OF

CHAPTER 58 OF THE LAWS OF 2020 AMENDING THE ELECTION LAW RELATING TO

PUBLIC FINANCING FOR STATE OFFICE; AMENDING THE STATE FINANCE LAW

RELATING TO ESTABLISHING THE NEW YORK STATE CAMPAIGN FINANCE FUND;

AND AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO ESTABLISHING THE NYS

CAMPAIGN FINANCE FUND CHECK-OFF, RELATING TO THE SEVERABILITY OF THE

PROVISIONS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AN EXPLANATION IS

REQUESTED, MS. WALKER. IF PEOPLE WILL SETTLE DOWN, THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WILL

CONTINUE TO USE MY CHEERLEADER VOICE FROM THE BROOKLYN TECH

CHEERING SQUAD. THIS BILL, BILL NUMBER A.7760, MAKES VARIOUS

CLARIFICATIONS AND MODIFICATIONS TO THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE

PROGRAM, INCLUDING VARIOUS CHANGES TO THE ELIGIBILITY FOR AND USE OF

MATCHING FUNDS. SUCH CHANGES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

INCREASING THE CONTRIBUTION THRESHOLDS REQUIRED TO QUALIFY FOR PUBLIC

MATCHING FUNDS FOR THE OFFICES OF ASSEMBLY AND SENATE; REQUIRING THE

PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE BOARD TO DEVELOP TRAINING AND CERTIFICATION

FOR COMPLIANCE OFFICERS; CLARIFYING THAT THE FIRST $250 OF AN ELIGIBLE

CONTRIBUTION IS MATCHABLE; ENSURING THAT CANDIDATES SELECTED FOR

RANDOM AUDITS WOULD REMAIN PRIVATE; ESTABLISHING THE STANDARDS BY

WHICH A RAISE SHALL BE DEEMED COMPETITIVE IN STATUTE; AND ADJUSTING THE

TIMING OF PAYMENTS TO CANDIDATES SO THAT THEY MAY RECEIVE FUNDS

EARLIER THAN CURRENTLY PROVIDED FOR IN THE LAW.

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: MR. NORRIS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES, MADAM SPEAKER, I -- I WILL.

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. NORRIS: THE FIRST QUESTION I HAVE IS, THIS

PROGRAM WAS ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE AND SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR

AS PART OF THE BUDGET, I BELIEVE IN 2020, WENT INTO EFFECT IN NOVEMBER

OF 2022, AND HERE WE STAND TODAY, JUNE 9, 2023 WITH THE PROGRAM

ALREADY IN EFFECT. SO WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THOSE APPROXIMATELY

35 INDIVIDUALS OR COMMITTEES THAT HAVE ALREADY ENTERED INTO THE

SYSTEM? ARE THERE ANY DUE PROCESS ISSUES WITH THEM?

MS. WALKER: WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE, AND

THOSE INDIVIDUALS WILL FALL WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE NEW LAWS THAT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WE WILL (INAUDIBLE) HERE TODAY.

MR. NORRIS: SO THEY WON'T BE GRANDFATHERED IN,

KNOWING THAT THEY SIGNED UP ALREADY UNDER THE PREVIOUS RULES THAT

ALLOWED A MAX UP TO $175,000 FOR THE ASSEMBLY, FOR EXAMPLE?

MS. WALKER: NO.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY.

MS. WALKER: YOU MEAN GRANDFATHERED INTO AN

EXCEPTION OR GRANDFATHERED INTO COMPLIANCE UNDER THIS LAW?

MR. NORRIS: TO -- AS AN EXCEPTION BECAUSE --

MS. WALKER: OKAY, NO. THERE WOULD BE NO

EXCEPTION.

MR. NORRIS: (INAUDIBLE) THE PROGRAM UNDER OTHER

RULES. NOW, AGAIN, THIS BODY IS CHANGING RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE

GAME. SO MY QUESTION IS, WILL THOSE INDIVIDUALS, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE

WHO ARE INCUMBENTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, THERE ARE CHALLENGERS

ALREADY OUT THERE, AND THESE RULES ARE BEING CHANGED IN THE MIDDLE OF

THE GAME. SO WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO THESE 35 OR SO COMMITTEES WHO

HAVE ALREADY ENTERED INTO THE SYSTEM?

MS. WALKER: THEY WILL RECOGNIZE THAT IT IS A

PRIVILEGE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING SYSTEM, AND IF

THEY ARE STILL SO OBLIGED TO CONTINUE IN THEIR PARTICIPATION THEY'LL REMAIN

IN THE PROGRAM. AND IF THEY ARE NOT, THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN ALWAYS

HAVE THE OPTION OF BEING -- OF REMOVING THEMSELVES.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

ANSWERING THAT QUESTION. NOW, MY UNDERSTANDING OF CURRENT LAW IS

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THAT AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS GIVEN $250 TO A CANDIDATE WHO WAS IN THE

SYSTEM WILL HAVE A MATCH OF $2,350. WOULD THAT BE CORRECT UNDER THE

CURRENT LAW?

MS. WALKER: THE ELECTION LAW SETS FORTH

CONTRIBUTION LIMITS FOR CANDIDATES REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY

PARTICIPATE IN PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING. FOR EXAMPLE, FOR ASSEMBLY

OFFICES THE LIMIT IS $6,000 PER CYCLE, 3,000 FOR THE PRIMARY AND 3,000

FOR THE GENERAL. HOWEVER, UNDER THE CURRENT LAW, PARTICIPANTS OF THE

PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO ACCEPT UP TO

$250 IF THEY WANT SUCH CONTRIBUTIONS TO BE MATCHED BY THE PROGRAM.

ANY DOLLAR AMOUNT OVER $250 WOULD NEED TO BE RETURNED TO THE DONOR

OR ELSE THE ENTIRE DONATION BECOMES UNMATCHABLE. HOWEVER, THIS

CHANGE WOULD ENSURE THAT THE FIRST $250 OF AN ELIGIBLE CONTRIBUTION UP

TO THE EXISTING CONTRIBUTION LIMITS FOR SUCH OFFICE WOULD BE MATCHABLE

AND THE CANDIDATE WOULD NOT HAVE TO RETURN THE AMOUNT IN EXCESS OF

$250.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO IF SOMEONE DONATED $251

THEN THEY WERE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE MATCH, RIGHT?

MS. WALKER: THE FIRST $250 WOULD QUALIFY, AND

THE $1 OVER THAT AMOUNT WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE RETURNED; HOWEVER, IT

WOULD NOT BE UTILIZED FOR PURPOSES OF THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING

PROGRAM.

MR. NORRIS: BUT THIS BILL WILL CHANGE THAT. SO NOW

UNDER THE CURRENT CONTRIBUTION LIMITS FOR THE ASSEMBLY, FOR EXAMPLE,

JUST TO USE YOUR -- TO USE THAT AS AN EXAMPLE, 3,000 FOR THE PRIMARY,

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3,000 FOR THE GENERAL. SO IF SOMEONE ACTUALLY DONATES $6,000, 3,000

FOR EACH, THEY WILL STILL GET THE MATCH, RIGHT, NOW?

(PAUSE)

MS. WALKER: SO AGAIN, THANK YOU, MR. NORRIS.

THE -- WHEN -- IF SOMEONE RECEIVES A CHECK FOR $251, THE $250 WILL

BECOME A PART OF THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE MATCHING FUNDS

PROGRAM. THE $1 OVER THAT AMOUNT WOULD NOT QUALIFY FOR SUCH

PROGRAM AND WILL BE UTILIZED IN THE SAME WAY AND CAPACITY AS A $1

CONTRIBUTION WOULD PRIOR TO THIS PROGRAM.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO WHEN WE PASSED THIS I

VOTED AGAINST IT, BUT THE BODY PASSED IT, IT WAS SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR

BACK IN MARCH OF 2020. I RECALL A LOT OF DISCUSSION BEING HAD ABOUT

THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO GET MONEY OUT, ACTUALLY, OF POLITICS IN SOME

REGARDS SO THEY'RE NOT HAVING THESE HUGE INCREASES, WE'LL CAP IT AT 250

AND THEN YOU'LL GET THE PUBLIC MATCH. IF YOU GO OVER THAT, THEN YOU'RE

OUT. BUT THIS APPEARS TO ME THAT, OKAY, THAT'S NOT GONNA BE THE CASE

NOW. SO IF SOMEONE DONATES $6,000, THE $250 WILL STILL BE MATCHED

AND NOW IT'S A CONTRIBUTION OF 8,350.

MS. WALKER: HOWEVER, THE FIRST $250 OF THAT

AMOUNT WILL SUFFICE FOR THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROGRAM.

MR. NORRIS: SO WHY IS THE MAJORITY

RECOMMENDING, OR YOU RECOMMENDING THIS CHANGE, THEN, AFTER WE HAD

A WHOLE DISCUSSION, OR AT LEAST -- I KNOW IT WAS DURING COVID SO I

CAN'T REMEMBER HOW MUCH DISCUSSION BUT I REMEMBER READING SOME OF

THE INFORMATION FROM IT. WHY ARE YOU MAKING THAT CHANGE? WHAT HAS

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HAPPENED IN THE LAST TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS TO NOW MAGICALLY IMPLEMENT

THIS CHANGE?

MS. WALKER: WELL, AFTER CAREFUL DELIBERATIONS

WITH A NUMBER OF STAKEHOLDERS AND INDIVIDUALS WHO WOULD BE INVOLVED

IN THE PROGRAM, WE BELIEVE THAT THE CONSENSUS OF A NUMBER OF PEOPLE

WITHIN THIS GROUP ACTUALLY RECOGNIZED THAT THERE'S PRECEDENCE FOR THIS

AND OTHER PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAMS. AND SO IT SORT OF

COMES INTO LINE, I GUESS, WITH THE GENERAL SORT OF PROCESSES AND

PROCEDURES BY WHICH PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING HAS BEEN DONE WITHIN

THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. WELL, LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER

QUESTION. SO IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THERE'S BEEN ANOTHER DRAMATIC

CHANGE, THAT WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, TO

PARTICIPATE. SO BEFORE WE HAD LIMITS AND REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU HAD TO

HAVE 75 CONTRIBUTIONS, UP TO I BELIEVE $6,000 OF THAT 75- AND THEN YOU

WOULD BE ABLE TO BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE PROGRAM. IS THAT RIGHT UNDER

THE CURRENT LAW?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. NORRIS: BUT NOW THAT'S GONNA ALMOST DOUBLE

TO 145- IN DISTRICT DONORS TO A LIMIT OF 10,000, A MINIMAL LIMIT OF

$10,000 FOR SOMEONE TO PARTICIPATE. SO THIS APPEARS TO ME THAT THIS IS

ACTUALLY DISCOURAGING PEOPLE FROM ENTERING THE PROGRAM BECAUSE WE'RE

INCREASING THE LIMITS AND -- AND REDUCING THE POINT OF HAVING

INDIVIDUALS HAVE SMALL CONTRIBUTIONS TO ASSIST CANDIDATES WHO WANT TO

RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE.

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MS. WALKER: IS THERE A QUESTION?

MR. NORRIS: WHY -- WHY HAVE WE HAD THIS CHANGE

SINCE MARCH OF 2020 TO NOW? WHAT IS THE REASONING FOR THAT?

MS. WALKER: WELL, MR. NORRIS, AGAIN, CONSIDERING

THE INITIAL BILL WAS ADOPTED DURING A TIME PERIOD WHEN WE WERE REMOTE

AND DURING COVID, WE'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO DELIBERATE, TO TAKE A

LOOK AT THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING

PROGRAM. IT WAS IMPORTANT TO US ALSO TO TAKE A LOOK SO THAT THERE IS

SOME SYNERGY BETWEEN THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAMS THAT

ARE ALSO BEING IMPLEMENTED IN THIS STATE. AND SO AFTER CONSIDERING ALL

OF THOSE THINGS, I BELIEVED THAT IT WAS BEST TO INTRODUCE A BILL THAT

WOULD ADDRESS THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. I'LL SAVE MY COMMENTS FOR ON

THE BILL.

MS. WALKER: AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, MR. NORRIS,

IT ALLOWS FOR CANDIDATES TO, YOU KNOW, INTERACT WITH MORE INDIVIDUALS

NOW. AND OF COURSE SINCE WE ARE PROMOTING, AS I'VE HEARD, IN TERMS OF

OUR ACCESS TO DEMOCRACY TO BE ABLE TO ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO -- TO

PARTICIPATE. IT'S ALSO IN GOOD ORDER THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE INCREASED THE

AMOUNT OF INDIVIDUALS THAT A CANDIDATE IS REQUIRED TO ENCOUNTER IN

ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM.

MR. NORRIS: WELL, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE THE CASE

THAT YOU WOULD RAISE IT UP. BUT WHILE YOU'RE -- WHILE YOU'RE LOWERING

IT, YOU'RE ALSO THWARTING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR CANDIDATES WHO WILL WANT

TO RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE, AND THAT WAS -- I -- FROM MY REMEMBERING OF

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THE WHOLE SITUATION BACK IN MARCH OF 2020, THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS

WHY WE, THE LEGISLATURE, SET IT AT 75- AND NOW WE'RE INCREASING IT TO A

HIGHER NUMBER, WHICH IS GOING TO THWART PUBLIC PARTICIPATION IN

REGARDS OF CANDIDATES BEING ABLE TO QUALIFY FOR THIS, AND THEN IN REGARDS

TO RECEIVE THE PUBLIC MATCHING FUNDS TO ACTUALLY EDUCATE THE VOTERS ON

THEIR ISSUES AND WHY THEY'RE RUNNING FOR PUBLIC OFFICE.

MS. WALKER: WELL, I DON'T KNOW, MR. NORRIS,

BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS I LOVE THE MOST ABOUT CAMPAIGNING IS THE

OPPORTUNITY TO KNOCK ON DOORS AND TO ATTEND CONGREGATIONS AROUND MY

DISTRICT AND TO GO TO SUPERMARKETS. AND SO, SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE WHO

WILL BE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING IN THE FRANCHISE AS A CANDIDATE WILL

GET TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET MORE PEOPLE NOW UNDER THIS

PARTICULAR PROGRAM.

MR. NORRIS: WELL, THANK YOU FOR THAT. I ALSO LIKE

GOING TO ALL THE -- THE -- YOU KNOW, THE PICNICS AND THE BARBECUES AND

ALL THAT AND MEETING ALL THE INDIVIDUALS.

MS. WALKER: ALL RIGHT. SO PERHAPS YOU'LL

INTRODUCE A BILL THAT WILL INCREASE THIS EVEN MORE PEOPLE IF THEY HAVE

TO.

MR. NORRIS: YES. WELL, LET'S CONTINUE ON THE -- ON

THE QUESTIONING. MY NEXT QUESTION IS IS ON DECEMBER, FOR EXAMPLE, I

UNDERSTAND NOW THAT IF YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED WITH THIS SYSTEM, YOU

CAN NOW START GETTING PUBLIC MATCHING FUNDS STARTING IN DECEMBER OF

THIS YEAR. WOULD THAT BE CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: YES.

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MR. NORRIS: OKAY. AND I UNDERSTOOD BEFORE THAT

YOU HAVE TO BE A CANDIDATE AND QUALIFIED FOR THE BALLOT AND THEN THOSE

FUNDS WOULD START IN MAY OF 2024, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR NEXT YEAR, OKAY?

SO WHY ARE WE CHANGING THIS BEFORE INDIVIDUALS EVEN HAVE THE

OPPORTUNITY TO GET ON TO THE BALLOT?

MS. WALKER: PUBLIC MATCHING FUNDS FOR THE

PRIMARY START AS EARLY AS 30 DAYS AFTER PETITIONS HAD BEEN FILED.

PAYMENTS FOR THE GENERAL START AT EARLY AS THE DAY AFTER THE PRIMARY.

THE BILL ADJUSTS THE PAYMENT SCHEDULE TO MIRROR THE NEW YORK CITY

PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROGRAM SO THAT CANDIDATES CAN BE ELIGIBLE

FOR PUBLIC MATCHING FUNDS SOONER. PAYMENTS WOULD OCCUR DECEMBER

15TH OF THE YEAR PRECEDING THE YEAR OF THE COVERED ELECTION, JANUARY

15TH, FEBRUARY 15TH, MARCH 15TH, APRIL 15TH AND A MINIMUM OF THREE

PAYMENTS -- PAYMENT DATES WITHIN THE 45 DAYS PRIOR TO A COVERED

PRIMARY ELECTION.

MR. NORRIS: YEAH, BUT WHY -- WHY ARE WE NOW

MOVING IT UP TO DECEMBER OF THIS YEAR WHEN CANDIDATES ARE NOT EVEN

QUALIFIED YET FOR THE BALLOT? WHY IS THAT CHANGE BEING MADE? IT'S A

SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE, BECAUSE NOW SOMEONE WHO MAY HAVE RUN BEFORE

MAY QUALIFY, THEY -- THEY COULD START GETTING MATCHING FUNDS, STATE

DOLLARS, AS EARLY AS DECEMBER.

MS. WALKER: WELL, AGAIN, MR. NORRIS, AFTER OUR

DELIBERATIONS AND WE TOOK A LOOK AT OTHER PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING

PROGRAMS WITHIN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT

WE HAD A SYSTEM THAT SORT OF HAD -- HAD A LEVEL OF SYNERGY AND SPOKE TO

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ONE ANOTHER. WE WANTED TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE WOULDN'T SORT OF BE

PARTICIPATING IN FORUM SHOPPING TO SEE WHICH PUBLIC CAMPAIGN

FINANCING PROGRAM WOULD SUIT THEIR NEEDS THE BEST. AND SO WE BELIEVE

THAT WHEN WE HAVE A PAYMENT SCHEDULE WHICH WORKS IN ACCORDANCE

WITH OTHER PAYMENT SCHEDULES THROUGHOUT THE STATE THAT IT WOULD BE

BEST SUITED FOR CANDIDATES WHO ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE PUBLIC

CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. I JUST -- BECAUSE I WANT TO JUST

POINT TO THE CURRENT LAW, 14-203 THAT SAYS PUBLIC MATCHING FUNDS UNDER

THIS TITLE, A CANDIDATE MUST - AND THIS IS ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS - MEET

ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF LAW TO HAVE HIS OR HER NAME ON THE BALLOT

SUBJECT TO REQUIREMENTS OF SUBDIVISION 3 OF SECTION 104 AND ANOTHER

ONE. BUT IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO ME THAT THAT IS THE SITUATION. SO I THINK

THAT THERE MAY BE A CONFLICT IN THE LAW, AND I WANT TO JUST POINT THAT OUT

FOR THE RECORD FOR THE SPONSOR TO EXAMINE, AS WELL AS THE GOVERNOR,

WHEN THEY'RE TAKING A LOOK AT THIS FOR A POTENTIAL CHAPTER AMENDMENT.

MS. WALKER: SO, I'M SORRY, WHAT DID YOU SAY WAS

THE POTENTIAL CONFLICT?

MR. NORRIS: BECAUSE IN THE -- IN THIS ONE SECTION

WE HAVE THAT THEY HAVE TO ACTUALLY QUALIFY TO BE ON THE BALLOT, BUT IN

THE OTHER SECTION YOU CAN START GETTING THE FUNDS AS EARLY AS DECEMBER

OF 2023.

MS. WALKER: WE WILL TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR

CONCERNS, OF COURSE, MR. NORRIS --

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU.

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MS. WALKER: -- BUT PRESENTLY UNDER THESE

PARTICULAR LAWS AS THEY ARE, IF THEY ARE FOUND THAT THEY DO NOT QUALIFY

FOR THE BALLOT THEN THEY MUST RETURN THE RESOURCES.

MR. NORRIS: GREAT. THAT'S MY NEXT QUESTION NOW.

SO IF -- I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, IF THEY DON'T QUALIFY FOR THE BALLOT, ARE

THEY REQUIRED TO SEND ALL OF THE FUNDS BACK OR JUST A PORTION OF THE

FUNDS?

(PAUSE)

MS. WALKER: YES, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO RETURN ALL

OF THE PORTIONS OF THE MONIES THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. I WANT TO ASK ANOTHER QUESTION

REGARDING THESE TERMS CALLED "CERTIFIED COMPLIANCE." MADAM SPEAKER,

IF I COULD EXERCISE MY ADDITIONAL 15 MINUTES AS THE RANKER? THANK

YOU VERY MUCH.

SO, CERTIFIED COMPLIANCE OFFICERS. IT APPEARS TO ME

THAT WE HAVE A VERY NICE AND WELL-QUALIFIED AND, QUITE FRANKLY, VERY

HELPFUL STAFF AT THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS. I'M CONFUSED THAT NOW THE

CERTIFIED COMPLIANCE OFFICERS WHO DO NOT WORK FOR THE STATE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS ARE GOING TO BE TRAINED BY THEM TO DO IT. WHY -- WHY ARE WE

NOT JUST HAVING THE STATE OF BOARD OF ELECTIONS WHICH WE'RE SPENDING

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON, BY THE WAY, FOR THIS STAFF TO HANDLE THE

QUESTIONING AND THE ASSISTANCE FROM THEM?

MS. WALKER: WELL, I GUESS FOR THE -- THE FIRST

REASON I WOULD SAY THAT SORT OF IN THE INTEREST -- IN THE INTEREST OF

WANTING AND ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO RUN FOR OFFICE. WE KNOW THAT THE

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TENETS OF PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING ALLOWS FOR WOMEN OR PEOPLE WHO

GENERALLY WOULD NEVER RUN FOR OFFICE BECAUSE SPECIAL INTERESTS, AND BIG

MONEY SORT OF GETS INVOLVED IN POLITICS, AND WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO

ENCOURAGE THAT. AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE AS WELL THAT THE PUBLIC

CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM IS UTILIZED AS A SHIELD TO PROTECT THOSE

TYPES OF INDIVIDUALS FOR AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO RUN FOR OFFICE, AS WELL

-- INSTEAD OF BEING A SWORD TO DISCOURAGE THEM FOR PARTICIPATING. AND

SO WE HAVE THESE CERTIFIED COMPLIANCE OFFICERS TO REQUIRE THAT THE

FINANCING BOARD DEVELOP TRAINING AND CERTIFICATION FOR COMPLIANCE AND

PUBLISH A LIST OF CERTIFIED COMPLIANCE OFFICERS ON ITS WEBSITE. THE NEW

PROVISION WOULD ADDRESS CONCERNS THAT WE'VE HEARD ABOUT, WHICH OF

COURSE THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX INITIATIVE --

MR. NORRIS: IT IS.

MS. WALKER: -- AND THE NATURE OF THE PROGRAM HAS

MANY DIFFERENT ACCOUNTING ISSUES THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE OUR FOLK

ARE WELL VERSED ON.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. ARE THERE ANY REQUIREMENTS,

EDUCATIONAL, BACKGROUNDS, PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED

FOR THESE CERTIFIED COMPLIANCE OFFICERS?

MS. WALKER: THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS WILL

DEVELOP THE REQUIREMENTS, CERTIFICATIONS AND THE TRAINING AROUND THIS.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. I -- I WANT TO JUST ASK ABOUT

THE FINANCIAL IMPACT OF THIS ENTIRE PROGRAM ON THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

BECAUSE IF I RECALL FROM THE INITIAL ESTIMATES IT WAS GOING TO BE $100

MILLION, AND I THINK IT WAS GOING TO BE CAPPED AT $100 MILLION BUT

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MAYBE YOU CAN CORRECT ME. AND WE HAVE ACTUALLY HAD 15 -- 10 MILLION

IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET, 25 MILLION IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET FOR A TOTAL OF 35-.

IS THERE GONNA BE A $100 MILLION CAP ON THIS PROGRAM?

MS. WALKER: NO, THERE WILL BE NO CAPS ON THE

PROGRAM.

MR. NORRIS: THERE'LL BE NO CAP ON THE PROGRAM.

OKAY. AND I JUST WANT ASK, TOO, WAS THERE A CHECK-OFF BOX WHERE

INDIVIDUALS COULD PARTICIPATE AS WELL IN THIS PROGRAM? IS THAT BEING

ELIMINATED UNDER YOUR BILL?

MS. WALKER: I'M SORRY, A CHECK-OFF BOX?

MR. NORRIS: YEAH, I THOUGHT THERE WAS A CHECK-OFF

BOX ON THE INCOME TAX IF SOMEONE WANTED TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS

PROGRAM.

MS. WALKER: I DON'T BELIEVE THAT -- YOU MEAN TO

DONATE?

MR. NORRIS: YEAH, TO DONATE. NOT -- NOT -- NOT TO

A CANDIDATE, BUT TO ACTUALLY HAVE A CHECK-OFF BOX.

MS. WALKER: WE DIDN'T CHANGE THAT.

MR. NORRIS: THAT REMAINS IN EFFECT?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. NORRIS: NOW, SO DOES THE FUND REMAIN IN

EFFECT, TOO, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH FUNDS GOING IN TO PAY FOR

THIS?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. NORRIS: ALL RIGHT. AND IT CAN EXCEED $100

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MILLION FOR AN ELECTION CYCLE?

MS. WALKER: WELL, I GUESS THAT DEPENDS ON THE

ROBUST NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH,

MADAM CHAIR. I APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: MR. NORRIS ON THE

BILL.

MR. NORRIS: I JUST FIND IT SO IRONIC BECAUSE DURING

THE MARCH 2020 BUDGET WHICH WAS QUICKLY DONE, OBVIOUSLY, BECAUSE

OF COVID IT WAS TUCKED IN THE BUDGET. THE MAJORITY PASSED THAT, THEY

IMPLEMENTED THIS PROGRAM, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN AFTER A PERIOD OF ABOUT

THREE YEARS A LIGHT BULB MUST HAVE WENT OFF AND THEY'RE LIKE, WAIT A

MINUTE, THIS MAY NOT HELP INCUMBENTS. CHALLENGERS MAY ACTUALLY HAVE

AN OPPORTUNITY TO USE THIS PROGRAM AND TO CHALLENGE THE INCUMBENTS.

AND I FIND IT SO IRONIC THAT WE PUT A CAP OF $250 FOR A CONTRIBUTOR

WITHIN SOMEONE'S DISTRICT, AND THEN TODAY WE'RE GOING TO WIPE THAT

AWAY AND YOU CAN STILL DONATE UP TO $6,000 AS AN INDIVIDUAL FROM YOUR

DISTRICT, AND THE FIRST 250 WILL BE A MATCH. SO THAT BECOMES $8,350 THAT

A CONTRIBUTOR FROM YOUR DISTRICT CAN GIVE TO YOU. AND ONE OF THE THINGS

I REMEMBER THEM TALKING ABOUT WAS THAT WE NEED TO GET MORE

CORPORATE MONEY, MORE MONEY OUT OF THE -- OUT OF THE SYSTEM. THIS

APPEARS TO ME THAT YOU'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE MORE MONEY LIKE THAT IN

THIS SYSTEM, AND THIS IS AN END-AROUND TO PROTECT INCUMBENTS. THAT'S

THE BOTTOM LINE. AND I HOPE THE PUBLIC RECOGNIZE THIS. I KNOW THAT

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CERTAIN PUBLIC ADVOCACY GROUPS CERTAINLY HAVE. I KNOW THAT MANY

NEWSPAPER EDITORIAL BOARDS HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THIS, INCLUDING MY

HOME AREA, THE BUFFALO NEWS HAS COMMENTED ON THIS. AND I JUST FIND

THIS WHOLE THING VERY, VERY IRONIC. AND UNFORTUNATELY -- YOU KNOW, I --

I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I THINK THE WHOLE THING SHOULD BE WIPED OUT. I THINK

WE SHOULD GO REPEAL IT TODAY ON THE WHOLE SYSTEM, PARTICULARLY WITH

THESE CHANGES. BECAUSE $100 MILLION OR MORE THAN $100 MILLION --

YOU KNOW, I'M THE RANKING MEMBER OF THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE,

AND I HAVE WORKED WITH -- IN A BIPARTISAN MANNER WITH SO MANY OF YOU

IN THIS ROOM TO FIGHT FOR $60 MILLION MORE IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET FOR OUR

ROADS AND FOR OUR BRIDGES AND FOR OUR CULVERTS. FOR ALL OF MAINLY

UPSTATE; 60 MILLION. AND YET WE'RE SPENDING $100 MILLION ON THIS

PROGRAM WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY GREATER NEEDS. AND WE MAY DISAGREE

ON THOSE NEEDS, I CERTAINLY CAN UNDERSTAND THAT. YOU HAVE DIFFERENT

PRIORITIES IN THE BUDGET THAN I DO. BUT I CAN TELL YOU, THIS IS NOT A

PRIORITY. AND IN MY DISTRICT AND IN WESTERN NEW YORK, THIS IS NOT A

PRIORITY. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO --

WHO -- THE ROADS ARE -- ARE FALLING APART IN MY DISTRICT. THERE ARE

BRIDGES CRUMBLING IN MY DISTRICT. AND YET WE ARE GOING TO SPEND $100

MILLION A YEAR ON THIS PROGRAM WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY GREATER NEEDS

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE OVERALL PRIORITIES WITHIN THE STATE BUDGET. I AM

JUST FRUSTRATED BY THAT, AND I WANT TO JUST NOTE THAT FOR THE RECORD. AND

I AM MORE OUTRAGED BY THESE CHANGES BECAUSE, QUITE FRANKLY, THEY DON'T

DO WHAT THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THIS BODY AND THE MAJORITY INTENDED IT TO

DO.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MADAM SPEAKER, I WILL BE OPPOSED TO THIS BILL AND I

ENCOURAGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES, MADAM SPEAKER, I WILL.

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. RA: THANK YOU. SO, JUST FIRST SOME GENERAL

QUESTIONS ON THE FINANCE SIDE, AND MR. NORRIS DID GET INTO IT A LITTLE BIT,

BUT THE -- OBVIOUSLY WE'RE DEALING WITH AT THIS POINT THIS PROGRAM NOT

HAVING BEEN FULLY IMPLEMENTED AND IN PARTICULAR NOT GONE THROUGH A

FULL CYCLE, SOMEWHAT SPECULATION AS TO WHAT WE THINK THE COST IS GOING

TO BE BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY CANDIDATES THERE ARE GOING TO

BE, THERE COULD BE MULTIPLE PRIMARY CANDIDATES, THERE COULD BE

MULTIPLE -- SO IT'S NOT AS SIMPLE AS SAYING, HEY, THERE'S THIS MANY SEATS

AND THIS MANY RACES. BUT THE NUMBER THAT'S BEEN OUT THERE IS $100

MILLION. WE'VE APPROPRIATED 35- OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. BUT ONE OF

THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE BUDGET, BECAUSE THERE WAS A REQUEST

TO GET TO THAT $100 MILLION IN THE BUDGET THIS YEAR WERE -- WAS THAT

THERE WERE NO DISBURSEMENTS THAT WERE GOING TO NEED TO BE MADE

DURING THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR. NOW, UNDER THIS THAT CHANGES, CORRECT?

THERE WOULD BE DISBURSEMENTS THAT WOULD NEED TO BE MADE THIS FISCAL

YEAR.

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MS. WALKER: THAT IS QUITE POSSIBLE, YES.

MR. RA: SO DO WE HAVE ANY ESTIMATE AS TO HOW

MUCH MONEY WE THINK WILL HAVE TO BE DISBURSED DURING THE CURRENT

FISCAL YEAR?

MS. WALKER: WELL, CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT THERE

IS STILL TIME FOR OTHER COMMITTEES TO SIGN UP FOR THE PROGRAM, WE DON'T

KNOW AN EXACT AMOUNT AT THIS POINT. WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL DECEMBER.

MR. RA: OKAY. DO -- DO WE KNOW THAT IT DEFINITELY

WILL BE LESS THAN THE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE HAVE PUT FORWARD FOR THE

PROGRAM SO FAR?

MS. WALKER: FOR JUST DECEMBER, YES.

MR. RA: OKAY. NOW -- WELL, IT WOULDN'T JUST BE

DECEMBER. I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING DECEMBER -- THERE'S THE DECEMBER

15TH PAYMENT, CORRECT, WOULD BE THE FIRST ONE AND THEN THERE'S JANUARY

AND FEBRUARY AS WELL.

MS. WALKER: WELL, WE'LL BE -- WE WILL BE BACK IN

SESSION --

MR. RA: WE WILL BE?

MS. WALKER: -- BY JANUARY, AND SO WE COULD

ADJUST THAT AMOUNT IF POSSIBLE.

MR. RA: WE COULD, BUT WE CAN'T BECAUSE WE CANNOT

APPROPRIATE FUNDS AT THAT POINT. WE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE THERE.

WE -- WE'D BE PRE-BUDGET, SO THERE ARE ISSUES WITH APPROPRIATING FUNDS

AT THAT POINT, SO WE MIGHT HAVE TO MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO SOME

THINGS. BUT WE -- SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THESE DISBURSEMENTS. NOW,

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MY -- ONE OF MY QUESTIONS OR THE WAY THIS SYSTEM HAS BEEN EXPLAINED

TO ME IS THAT THERE'S I GUESS A TWO-STEP PROCESS, RIGHT? SO INDIVID --

THERE'S -- I KNOW A NUMBER OF EVEN COLLEAGUES HERE HAVE APPLIED FOR

THIS PROGRAM, AND YOU START BY -- YOU SET UP A NEW -- YOU APPLY FOR THE

PROGRAM AND YOU SET UP A NEW ACCOUNT, YOU TRANSFER ANY FUNDS OVER,

AND THAT'S -- I -- I FORGET, I -- THERE WERE TWO DIFFERENT TERMS USED; ONE

IS, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE APPLYING, NOW YOU'RE BASICALLY SETTING FORTH YOU'RE

-- THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE HAVING A QUALIFYING ACCOUNT, I GUESS, AND THEN

THERE WOULD ULTIMATELY BE YOU ACTUALLY DECIDING TO UTILIZE THE PROGRAM,

ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE, RIGHT? THERE'S TWO STEPS TO THIS PROCESS; IS THAT

CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: YES. SO INITIALLY YOU QUALIFY AND

THEN YOU BECOME A PARTICIPANT IN THE PROGRAM.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND -- AND SO ANYBODY WHO'S

QUALIFIED AT THIS POINT OR QUALIFIES IN THE MONTHS TO COME, WHICH I THINK

MANY OF US WILL BE DOING, THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN WE'RE GOING TO

ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM AS WE GET INTO THE NEXT ELECTION

CYCLE.

MS. WALKER: CORRECT.

MR. RA: NOW, IN TERMS OF GETTING TO THE POINT THAT

YOU ACTUALLY QUALIFY, THAT -- THAT'S WHERE I'M A LITTLE UNCLEAR HERE EVEN,

YOU KNOW, WITH REGARD TO YOUR ANSWERS TO MR. NORRIS. BECAUSE ONCE

SOMEBODY DECIDES OR -- AT LEAST MY UNDERSTANDING UNDER CURRENT LAW

UNDER WHAT WE PASSED A COUPLE YEARS AGO IS THAT ONCE YOU WENT AND

FILED PETITIONS, WHICH IS HOW ANY OF US BECOMES REALLY AN OFFICIAL

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CANDIDATE, RIGHT, IN NEW YORK STATE IS BY FILING PETITIONS. NOW WE'RE

QUALIFIED FOR THE BALLOT, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE

KIND OF TRIGGERING EVENT THAT MADE US ABLE TO START TO ACTUALLY GET THE

PUBLIC FINANCING FUNDS, RIGHT? IS THAT HOW IT IS CURRENTLY, OR COULD YOU

GET PUBLIC FINANCING FUNDS CURRENTLY BEFORE YOU -- YOU FILED PETITIONS

AND WERE A CANDIDATE?

MS. WALKER: SO, INITIALLY YOU (INAUDIBLE) YOU

WERE TALKING ABOUT GENERALLY SPEAKING NOT PARTICIPATING IN A PUBLIC

CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM, SO YOU GO OUT, YOU GET PETITIONS, YOU GET

SIGNATURES --

MR. RA: YES.

MS. WALKER: YOU SIGN UP TO PARTICIPATE IN THE

CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROGRAM. ONCE YOU BECOME A CANDIDATE, YOU --

ONCE YOU'RE REGISTERED YOU BEGIN TO REQUEST CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR

CAMPAIGN AND THEN YOU'RE IN THE -- IN A PROGRAM. BUT THERE ARE

ADDITIONAL STEPS TO PARTICIPATE IN A PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM.

MR. RA: YES.

MS. WALKER: AND THOSE PARTICULAR STEPS ARE, ONE,

YOU BECOME QUALIFIED AND THEN YOU ARE A PARTICIPANT AND CAN BEGIN TO

RECEIVE FUNDING. AND SO I'M CONFUSED, WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION?

MR. RA: WELL, MY QUESTION -- IF -- UNDER CURRENT

LAW, UNDER THE BILL WE PASSED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, COULD A CANDIDATE

START TO RECEIVE THE MATCHING PUBLIC FUNDS PRIOR TO PETITIONS BEING FILED

AND THEN BEING ON THE BALLOT OFFICIALLY?

MS. WALKER: UNDER CURRENT LAW, NO. THAT'S WHY

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WE'RE CHANGING IT.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO NOW UNDER THIS YOU COULD,

WHICH, AGREED, IF -- IF WE LOOK AT THE CURRENT SYSTEM, SOMEBODY RIGHT

NOW, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE STILL WELL AWAY FROM WHEN WE'RE GOING TO BE

FILING PETITIONS, FILES OF THE CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE WOULD STAY IN

COMMITTEE, THEY CAN BEGIN RAISING FUNDS. THEY SAY, HEY, I'M A

CANDIDATE FOR ASSEMBLY DISTRICT, I'M GOING TO SAY 151 BECAUSE I KNOW

THAT DOESN'T EXIST, BUT I DON'T WANT TO TARGET ANYBODY'S DISTRICT IN THAT

REGARD.

MS. WALKER: WHY NOT SAY 251?

MR. RA: OKAY, WE'LL SAY 251.

MS. WALKER: MAGIC NUMBER FOR TODAY.

MR. RA: EVEN BETTER. SO I -- I -- I AGREE THERE IS

SOMEWHAT OF A PARALLEL THERE AS TO WHERE WE'RE GETTING HERE, BUT MY

QUESTION IS THEY, I KNOW, HAVE PUT OUT A LIST OF WHAT'S A QUALIFYING

EXPENDITURE. SO NOW WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO USE, BECAUSE YOU CAN START

GETTING THE MATCHING FUNDS IN DECEMBER, SO COULD YOU NOW UTILIZE

THOSE FUNDS FOR THE THINGS THAT WE ALL HAVE TO DO TO ACTUALLY QUALIFY FOR

THE BALLOT; PRINTING PETITIONS, CIRCULATING PETITIONS, PERHAPS -- I KNOW

YOU CAN'T PAY PER SIGNATURE BUT YOU CAN PAY SOMEBODY BY THE HOUR, I

BELIEVE, TO CIRCULATE PETITIONS FOR YOU. SO COULD YOU USE PUBLIC

MATCHING FUNDS FOR THAT?

MS. WALKER: YOU CAN USE PUBLIC MATCHING FUNDS

FOR THAT, YES.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO HERE'S MY QUESTION. YOU TOLD

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MR. NORRIS THAT ONCE YOU'VE -- THAT IF YOU DON'T END UP QUALIFYING, YOU

HAVE TO RETURN ALL THE FUNDS. DOES THAT PERSON NOW OWE TO PAY BACK TO

THE PUBLIC FINANCING SYSTEM IF THEY END UP FALLING SHORT AND NOT GETTING

ON THE BALLOT? BECAUSE THEY'VE SPENT THAT MONEY ALREADY.

MS. WALKER: WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? LET ME GO

BACK AND GET MORE FURTHER CLARIFICATION ON THAT AND -- AND I'LL GET BACK

TO YOU.

MR. RA: OKAY. OKAY. BECAUSE THAT -- THAT IS -- I --

I THINK IT'S SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY WHEN THEY -- WHEN THEY -- AS THEY'VE

BEEN WORKING ON THIS PROGRAM AND COMING UP WITH THE LIST OF WHAT

QUALIFIES, I DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN

CONTEMPLATED, OBVIOUSLY, BECAUSE THE CURRENT, YOU KNOW, STATUTORY

FRAMEWORK, THE TIMING IS DIFFERENT. SO -- SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S

NEW UNDER THIS THAT I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT AND -- AND WHETHER

IT'S REGULATORY OR BY STATUTE, HOW THAT'S GOING TO WORK.

SO MOVE -- MOVING ON FROM THAT AND QUALIFYING,

THOUGH. SO THERE'S SOME CHANGES HERE REGARDING THE PROGRAM. THERE'S

A NUMBER OF THEM IN TERMS OF MATCHING FUNDS AND ALL OF THAT, BUT I -- I

WANT TO START WITH ONE THAT SEEMS SOMEWHAT GLARING BECAUSE WE ONLY

CHANGE IT FOR THE ASSEMBLY. WHY IS THERE A CHANGE IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT

OF FUNDS AN ASSEMBLYMEMBER CAN GET, BUT THERE'S NO CHANGE TO ANY OF

THE OTHER OFFICES?

(PAUSE)

MS. WALKER: SO FIRST OF ALL, WE LOOKED AT THE FACT

THAT SENATE DISTRICTS ARE TWO-AND-A-HALF TIMES THE SIZE OF AN ASSEMBLY

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DISTRICT. SO THAT WAS THE BIG -- THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONSIDERATIONS IN

MAKING THAT CHANGE.

MR. RA: OKAY. DID -- DID WE NOT CONTEMPLATE THAT

WHEN WE FIRST ADOPTED THE SYSTEM? THAT'S SOMEWHAT RHETORICAL, BUT...

SO -- SO -- BUT THAT'S -- SO THAT'S THE ONLY CHANGE IN TERMS OF THE -- THE

MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF FUNDS SOMEBODY CAN RECEIVE, RIGHT? IT'S JUST FOR

THE ASSEMBLY, IT GOES FROM 175,000 MAXIMUM TO 145,000 MAXIMUM.

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND REGARDLESS OF THAT, THOUGH, THE

MATCHING REMAINS THE SAME, RIGHT? THE -- SO IT -- AM I CORRECT THE

MATCHING OF THE ACTUAL FUNDS OF -- OF A CONTRIBUTION IS THE SAME?

MS. WALKER: THE MATCHING REMAINS THE SAME,

YES.

MR. RA: SO IF I CAN WALK THROUGH THIS WITH YOU. SO

UNDER CURRENT LAW AND UNDER THIS, 12 TO 1 FOR THE FIRST $50, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. RA: NINE TO 1 FOR THE NEXT $100.

MS. WALKER: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. RA: AND THEN 8 TO 1 FOR THE -- FOR THE FINAL

$100.

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. RA: WHICH GETS US TO $250 OF A CONTRIBUTION.

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. RA: AND THE WAY THE SYSTEM IS CURRENTLY

CONSTITUTED AND THE WAY THIS WAS DESIGNED TO WORK IS NOW THAT $250

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DONATION ESSENTIALLY BECOMES A $2,550 DONATION BECAUSE IT'S THE 250

PLUS THE $2,300 THEY CAN GET IN THE MATCHING FUNDS, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: YES. I HAVE TO -- WHAT WAS YOUR

MATH AGAIN?

MR. RA: TWO HUNDRED -- THERE'S -- MY MATH IS THAT

THERE IS I BELIEVE $2,300 IN PUBLIC FUNDS, AND WHEN YOU COMBINE THAT

WITH THE $250 YOU RECEIVED FROM THE DONOR IT'S 2,550.

MS. WALKER: OH, 2,550, YES.

MR. RA: OKAY. NOW, UNDER THE STATUTE AS CURRENTLY

WRITTEN, THAT -- IF THAT DONOR GIVES YOU A $250 FIRST DOLLAR, NONE OF IT'S

MATCHING, RIGHT?

MS. WALKER: CORRECT.

MR. RA: UNDER THIS, THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. THE

PERSON CAN GIVE YOU OVER THE 250, IT'S JUST THE MATCHING IS AT 250 BUT

THEY CAN GIVE YOU ABOVE THAT $250.

MS. WALKER: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. RA: AND -- AND, IN FACT, THAT PERSON CAN GIVE

YOU UP TO A MAXIMUM DONATION.

MS. WALKER: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. RA: OKAY. LIKEWISE FOR STATEWIDE OFFICERS. I

MEAN, THE MAXIMUM DONATION FOR STATEWIDE IS $18,000?

MS. WALKER: YES, IT IS.

MR. RA: AND LIKEWISE, THERE'S NO -- THERE'S NO

DISQUALIFYING OF A DONATION WHEN YOU GO ABOVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT. THE

PERSON CAN GIVE UP TO THE MAXIMUM AND THEY JUST -- WE MATCH -- I

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DON'T KNOW WHAT THE --

MS. WALKER: THE FIRST $250.

MR. RA: -- IF IT'S -- OKAY, IT'S STILL 250 FOR -- FOR EVEN

THE STATEWIDE. OKAY.

I THINK THE ONE OTHER THING I WANTED TO ASK IS, I KNOW

THERE WAS A CHANGE WITH REGARD TO THE NUMBER OF -- OF DONORS. SO WE

CURRENTLY HAVE $6,000 FROM 75 IN -- IN-DISTRICT DONORS TO MEET THE

THRESHOLD. THIS CHANGES IT TO $10,000 FROM 145?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. RA: SO WHAT -- WHAT IS THE -- WHAT IS THE

INTENTION OF THAT CHANGE? DID WE JUST THINK THAT 75 WASN'T ENOUGH

PEOPLE TO SHOW SUPPORT? WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR THAT CHANGE?

MS. WALKER: SO AGAIN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE

CONSIDERED DURING OUR DELIBERATIONS IS THE FACT THAT NEW YORK STATE,

THERE IS PRECEDENT FOR A PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM AND WE

WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S SOME SYNERGY BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT

PROGRAMS THAT WE ARE EMPLOYING WITHIN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. AND

SO THIS BRINGS OUR BILL MORE SO IN COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT THE NEW YORK

CITY PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING HAS DONE, AND IN ADDITION TO THAT WE

BELIEVE IT PROVIDES AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE AND INTERACT WITH MORE

VOTERS AS OPPOSED TO FEWER VOTERS.

MR. RA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU.

MR. RA: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: ON THE BILL.

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MR. RA: SO, YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, AND

LIKE MY COLLEAGUE SAID PREVIOUSLY, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY LOVE

THIS SYSTEM TO BEGIN WITH. BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT -- EVEN IF YOU

DISAGREE WITH IT, I THINK THE IDEA BEHIND THIS WAS WHAT I -- WHAT I JUST

SAID. YOU'RE TURNING THAT PERSON WHO GIVES YOU $250 INTO A DONOR

WORTH OVER $2,500 TO YOU, MEANING THAT THAT PERSON WHO -- WHO

DECIDES THEY'D REALLY LIKE YOU TO REPRESENT THEM, IT'S LIKE THEY'RE, HEY,

I'M A BIG TICKET DONOR TO YOU. THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS IS SUPPOSED TO DO

IN TERMS OF DRIVING BIG MONEY OUT. INSTEAD, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE

HERE -- AND -- AND I WANT YOU -- EVERYBODY TO THINK ABOUT THIS BECAUSE

THIS PROGRAM, WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO ALIGN IT A LITTLE BIT

MORE WITH NEW YORK CITY. WELL -- WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I KNOW

THERE IS SOME OF IS SOME RESTRICTIONS ON PEOPLE WHO ARE, YOU KNOW,

DOING BUSINESS WITH THE CITY. WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THAT. SO THINK

ABOUT THIS. SOMEBODY WHO HAS A STATE CONTRACT COULD BE -- LIKE, THE

CEO HAS A STATE CONTRACT, DONATES $18,000 TO THE GOVERNOR'S

CAMPAIGN AND, HEY, HERE'S ANOTHER $1,750 FROM THE NEW YORK STATE

TAXPAYERS TO HELP YOU AS WELL. THAT'S ABSURD. AND THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT

WHAT THE INTENTION OF THIS SYSTEM IS, WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH IT OR DON'T

AGREE WITH IT. SO I THINK AS -- AS MY COLLEAGUE SAID PREVIOUSLY, I

ALWAYS FELT LIKE THIS WAS AN INCUMBENCY PROTECTION ACT. THAT'S WHAT

I'VE CALLED IT FOR YEARS, BECAUSE YOU CAN DO ALL THE TRADITIONAL

FUNDRAISING, THIS JUST GIVES YOU A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA MONEY TO DO ALL

THOSE ATTACK ADS AND THINGS THAT PEOPLE LOVE. BUT IT'S EVEN WORSE UNDER

THIS SYSTEM AND WE SHOULD REJECT IT. THANK YOU.

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ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: MR. REILLY.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU. MS. WALKER, I HAVE A

QUESTION ABOUT -- SO IF I READ THIS CORRECTLY, THE BILL AMENDS ELECTION

LAW TO PROVIDE -- TO QUALIFY -- IF YOU HAVE -- IF THERE ARE ANY -- IF A

CANDIDATE HAS ANY UNPAID FINES FOR PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE WITHIN THE

LAST TEN YEARS THEY WOULDN'T QUALIFY; IS THAT -- IS THAT ACCURATE?

MS. WALKER: THAT'S ACCURATE.

MR. REILLY: SO THEN THE NEXT QUESTION I HAVE IS IF

THE CAMPAIGN PUBLIC FINANCE, IT CARRIES OVER FROM PRIMARIES TO GENERAL

ELECTIONS WITH -- WITH A REDUCTION, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: THAT'S CORRECT. AND SO I WANT TO

ALSO MAKE A POINT OF CLARIFICATION ON THAT FOR BOTH MR. NORRIS AS WELL AS

MR. RA. IF AN INDIVIDUAL IS PARTICIPATING IN AN ELECTION AND THEY'RE

DOING PETITIONING, IF THEY ARE UNABLE TO MEET THE -- THE QUALIFICATIONS TO

MEET THE BALLOT, HOWEVER THEY UTILIZE THEIR RESOURCES FOR A QUALIFYING

EXPENDITURE, THEN THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED TO RETURN THOSE RESOURCES BACK

TO THE STATE. HOWEVER, COMING FORWARD TO WHAT I BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE

DISCUSSING NOW IS IF AN INDIVIDUAL DOES QUALIFY FOR THE BALLOT, THEY HAVE

PARTICIPATED IN A PRIMARY AND LET'S SAY THAT THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL IN THE

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PRIMARY. THEN THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO ROLL OVER, SUPPOSE IT'S $50,000,

FROM THE PRIMARY INTO THE GENERAL ELECTION CYCLE. AND YOU ARE CORRECT

IN YOUR ASSERTION THAT THE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES THAT THEY WOULD RECEIVE

IN A GENERAL ELECTION WOULD BE REDUCED BY THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT

WAS ROLLED OVER FROM THE PRIMARY CAMPAIGN INTO THE GENERAL ELECTION

CYCLE.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. AND THAT -- AND THAT SAME

ACCOUNT CAN BE USED FOR APPROVED EXPENDITURES, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: CORRECT.

MR. REILLY: SO MY QUESTION IS, IF THE CANDIDATE

RECEIVES A CAMPAIGN VIOLATION, CAN THEY USE THAT PUBLIC FUND TO PAY FOR

THE VIOLATION? IF IT OCCURRED DURING THE PRIMARY, COULD THEY USE THE

ACCOUNT FOR THE GENERAL TO PAY A VIOLATION IF THAT HAPPENS?

MS. WALKER: NO.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER CLARK: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO, I WANTED

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TO -- AND I HOPE I'M NOT BEING REPETITIVE. I'M SORRY, I'VE HAD, LIKE, THREE

DIFFERENT PEOPLE TALKING TO ME AT ONE TIME, SO I HOPE YOU HAVEN'T

ALREADY ANSWERED THIS.

MS. WALKER: WELCOME TO MY WORLD.

MS. WALSH: I KNOW. WELL, YEAH, THOSE PEOPLE ARE

THERE TO HELP YOU, THOUGH. SO I WANTED TO ASK YOU SPECIFICALLY ABOUT

THE ISSUE OF LOW-INCOME DISTRICTS. SO, IT SAYS HERE THAT -- WELL, WHAT'S

-- THERE WERE THRESHOLDS -- SO THERE'S THRESHOLDS FOR QUALIFYING FOR THE

PROGRAM, AND SO FOR THE ASSEMBLY, CANDIDATES HAVE TO RAISE $10,000

FROM 145 IN-DISTRICT DONORS ACCORDING TO THIS BILL; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. AND THEN FOR LOW-INCOME

DISTRICTS THE THRESHOLDS WILL BE $6,000 IN THE ASSEMBLY AND $16,000 IN

THE SENATE. I GUESS MY FIRST QUESTION IS, UNDER CURRENT LAW -- UNDER THE

CURRENT LAW WAS THAT LOW-INCOME DISTRICT THRESHOLD PART OF THAT? WAS

THAT IN THE ORIGINAL LAW OR WAS THAT ADDED THIS TIME?

MS. WALKER: NO, IT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL AS WELL.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO HAS THAT CHANGED AT ALL, THE

-- THAT PROVISION, THE LOW-INCOME DISTRICT PROVISION, THE THRESHOLD?

MS. WALKER: YES. IN THE CURRENT LAW THE

THRESHOLD IS $4,000 WITH 75 CONTRIBUTORS, AND FOR A SENATE SEAT $8,000

WITH 150 PARTICIPANTS -- CONTRIBUTORS.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. THAT'S AS FAR AS THE AMOUNT OF

MONEY RAISED FROM THE IN-DISTRICT DONORS. BUT SPECIFICALLY FOR THE LOW-

INCOME DISTRICTS, HOW IS -- HOW IS THAT ARRIVED AT? HOW IS THE LOW-

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INCOME DISTRICT DEFINED? HOW DID -- HOW DID WE COME TO THE $6,000

IN THE ASSEMBLY AND 16,000 IN THE SENATE?

(PAUSE)

MS. WALKER: OKAY. THANK YOU. SO MS. WALSH, I

JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I AM CLEAR IN TERMS OF ANSWERING YOUR

QUESTION. ARE YOU ASKING ME HOW DID WE COME UP WITH THE DEFINITION

FOR A LOW-INCOME COMMUNITY OR HOW DID WE COME UP WITH THE $6,000

THRESHOLD LIMIT FOR THE ASSEMBLY OR $16,000 THRESHOLD?

MS. WALSH: YES, THE SECOND ONE. HOW DID YOU

COME UP WITH THE THRESHOLD?

MS. WALKER: I WAS CONFUSED, SORRY. SO THAT

AMOUNT IS TWO-THIRDS OF THE -- OF THE NEW LIMIT, THE NEW THRESHOLD.

AND SO WE LOWERED IT BY TWO-THIRDS IN EACH RACE.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. WAS THAT BASED ON, LIKE, THE

AVERAGE MEDIAN INCOME AND A PORTION OF THAT? OR LIKE, WHAT -- WHAT

WENT INTO FIGURING OUT --

MS. WALKER: IT WAS BASED ON THE AVERAGE MEDIAN

INCOME, YES.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. NOW, OUT OF OUR 150 ASSEMBLY

DISTRICTS, HOW MANY OF THOSE DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO QUALIFY AS LOW-

INCOME DISTRICTS AND DO WE KNOW WHERE THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, AROUND

THE STATE?

MS. WALKER: I CAN GET BACK TO YOU WITH THAT

ANSWER.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. I MEAN -- I KNOW THAT THAT WAS

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A COMPOUND QUESTION. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE TOTAL NUMBER IS EVEN IF

YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY THE LIST OF WHAT THEY ARE?

MS. WALKER: WELL, I CAN TELL YOU THAT -- I CAN TELL

YOU THAT AT LEAST ONE DISTRICT THAT WOULD QUALIFY.

MS. WALSH: OKAY.

MS. WALKER: BUT I WOULD HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU.

MS. WALSH: WOULD THAT BE YOURS?

MS. WALKER: THAT WOULD DEFINITELY --

MS. WALSH: OKAY, VERY GOOD. SO, THE NEXT

QUESTION I'VE GOT REALLY IS -- HAS TO DO WITH THE EARLIER PAYMENT

SCHEDULE THAT'S BEEN ARRIVED AT. SO THE -- THE BOARD WAS ORIGINALLY

SCHEDULED TO ISSUE FIRST PAYMENTS IN MAY, AND NOW THIS BILL PROPOSES

PUSHING THAT SCHEDULE UP TO ISSUE FIRST PAYMENTS TO DECEMBER OF -- OF

THIS YEAR. IS -- OR ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE STATE BOARD OFFICES ARE

SCHEDULED TO GO UNDER CONSTRUCTION, DISPLACING STAFF ALL WHILE THEY WAIT

TO ON-BOARD NEWLY-CREATED STAFF AND A NEW VENDOR TO ASSIST WITH THE

PROCESSING OF PAYMENTS?

MS. WALKER: WELL, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE

STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS HAVE BEEN GEARING UP FOR THIS NEW PUBLIC

CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM FOR QUITE SOME TIME. AND THEY ARE --

THEY STAND AT THE READY FOR THE INITIAL IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROGRAM.

FOLK HAVE BEEN SIGNING UP FOR THIS NEW PROGRAM WITHOUT ISSUE, AND I

HAVE FULL FAITH AND CONFIDENCE IN THE FACT THAT THE STATE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS WILL BE READY AND WILL BE PREPARED TO GO ON DAY ONE.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. IT JUST SEEMS AS THOUGH MAKING

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-- I MEAN, THESE CHANGES, SOME OF THESE CHANGES ARE KIND OF COMPLEX

AND KIND OF COMPLICATED, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE BEEN

RAMPING UP TO GET READY FOR THIS. BUT MOVING UP THE PAYMENTS ABOUT

SIX MONTHS OR SO, EARLIER THAN THEY WERE GOING TO BE IN MAY, I BELIEVE,

THAT -- THAT COULD BE A COMPLICATING FACTOR FOR THE BOARD TO BE GETTING

READY FOR THIS. DO YOU -- I MEAN, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT OR WHAT

ARE -- WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS OTHER THAN COMPLETE CONFIDENCE THAT

THEY'LL HANDLE IT?

MS. WALKER: WELL, I MEAN, THEY HAVE NOT RAISED

ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY WILL NOT BE READY, AND EACH TIME

THAT WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM THEY HAVE INDICATED THAT THEY

HAVE THE SKILL AND THE TALENT AND THE EXPERTISE AND THE LIVED

EXPERIENCES WITHIN THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS TO BE READY FOR THIS. AGAIN,

THERE HAS BEEN SOME PRECEDENCE FOR HAVING A PUBLIC CAMPAIGN

FINANCING PROGRAM HERE WITHIN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AND I AM SURE

THAT THEY'VE UTILIZED, YOU KNOW, THOSE OPPORTUNITIES IN ORDER TO GEAR UP

AND BE READY FOR THIS ONE.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. I -- I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWER.

I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE

FACTORS THAT ARE GOING TO BE CONSIDERED WHEN DETERMINING WHETHER OR

NOT A CERTAIN RACE IS COMPETITIVE, AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT CRITERIA

CONDITIONS THAT ARE MET. UNDER EXISTING LAW, WAS THAT ADDRESSED IN THE

-- IN THE, I GUESS THE BILL-IN-CHIEF, THE ORIGINAL LEGISLATION?

MS. WALKER: SO, WE HAVE -- WE ALLOW THE BOARD

TO COME UP WITH THE REGULATIONS WITH RESPECT TO BEING DEEMED

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COMPETITIVE OR A RACE BEING DEEMED COMPETITIVE. SO WE HAVE CODIFIED

THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE BOARD, AS WELL AS ADDING A -- A FEW

THINGS. AND SO FOR A COVERED GENERAL ELECTION, AN OPPOSING MAJORITY

PARTY CANDIDATE WITHIN A 20-POINT MARGIN WITHIN THE LAST EIGHT YEARS

WOULD BE COMPETITIVE. IN THE GENERAL ELECTION IN THAT DISTRICT WAS

WITHIN A 20-POINT -- WHETHER OR NOT IN A GENERAL ELECTION IN THAT

DISTRICT WHETHER THE CANDIDATE WAS WITHIN A 20-POINT MARGIN WITHIN THE

LAST SIX YEARS. ALSO, THE OPPOSING CANDIDATE RECEIVED A CERTAIN NUMBER

OF ENDORSEMENTS FROM OTHER CURRENT OR PAST ELECTED OFFICIALS AT EITHER

THE FEDERAL, STATE OR MUNICIPAL LEVEL FROM THE AREA COVERED BY THE

OFFICE SOUGHT. ANOTHER CONSIDERATION IS THE OPPOSING CANDIDATE'S

SPOUSE OR IMMEDIATE RELATIVE HAS HELD ELECTED OFFICE IN THE AREA

COVERED BY THE OFFICE SOUGHT WITHIN THE LAST TEN YEARS, OR THE

PARTICIPATING CANDIDATE IS OPPOSED BY ANOTHER PARTICIPATING CANDIDATE

WHO HAS BEEN DEEMED ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE PUBLIC FUNDS PAYMENTS FOR

THE COVERED ELECTION, OR AN INDIVIDUAL IS SELF-FUNDING IN AN AMOUNT

EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THE MINIMUM QUALIFYING THRESHOLDS FOR SUCH

OFFICE, AND LASTLY, THE OPPOSING CANDIDATE PREVIOUSLY HELD ELECTED

OFFICE.

MS. WALSH: THAT'S GREAT. I APPRECIATE THAT FOR THE

RECORD. AND -- AND I JUST WANTED TO JUST -- JUST TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT A

COUPLE OF THOSE. ONE -- ONE THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME PERSONALLY WAS THE

SELF-FUNDING CRITERIA. SO, IF AN INDIVIDUAL IS SELF-FUNDING, I UNDERSTAND

THAT, YOU CAN MAKE A LOAN TO YOUR COMMITTEE. I KNOW I DID WHEN I FIRST

RAN AND I'M STILL TRYING TO PAY THAT BACK. YOU KNOW, THAT'S A PRETTY BIG

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

NUMBER. BUT WHAT ABOUT IF IT'S -- IF IT'S THE CANDIDATE'S SPOUSE AND THE

CANDIDATE'S SPOUSE GIVES $15,000 AND THAT'S NOT -- THAT'S NOT A NUMBER I

PULLED OUT OF THIN AIR, $15,000 TO THE CANDIDATE. IS THAT GOING TO BE

TRIGGERED AS SELF-FUNDING OR IS THAT A -- KIND OF LIKE A LOOPHOLE?

MS. WALKER: IT IS NOT CONSIDERED WITHIN THIS

PARTICULAR BILL.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. OKAY. AND THE OTHER ONE THAT

WAS MENTIONED TO ME IS THE MARGIN OF VICTORY BULLET POINT OR THRESHOLD

WHERE THE MARGIN OF VICTORY FOR GENERAL ELECTIONS IN THE LAST EIGHT YEARS

WAS 20 POINTS OR LESS FOR THE SEAT. SO, WHAT IF -- WHAT IF YOU HAD A

SITUATION WHERE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS THEY WERE JUST, YOU KNOW,

BLOWOUTS? YOU JUST HAD SOMEBODY WHERE IT WAS JUST LIKE 80 PERCENT,

60 PERCENT, WHATEVER WAS THE MARGIN, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IN THIS

PARTICULAR YEAR YOU'VE GOT WHAT APPEARS TO BE IS GOING TO BE A PRETTY --

A PRETTY CLOSE RACE, EITHER BECAUSE REDISTRICTING JUST MADE IT DIFFERENT OR

MAYBE THE CANDIDATE, YOUR OPPONENT IS JUST, YOU KNOW, BETTER. YOU

KNOW, MAY BE BETTER. IS -- WAS THAT CONSIDERED AT ALL WITH -- WITH THE

20 POINTS OR LESS? I MEAN, THAT -- THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM. I KNOW IT'S

-- I KNOW IT'S OR, OR, OR, OR, IT'S NOT AND, BUT...

MS. WALKER: WELL, THAT WOULDN'T BE COVERED BUT IT

IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT IT COULD BE COMPETITIVE BECAUSE OF ANOTHER

SITUATION OR EVEN ONE OF THESE SITUATIONS.

MS. WALSH: BUT, I MEAN, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT,

LIKE, LET'S SAY NEXT YEAR --

MS. WALKER: RIGHT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. WALSH: -- IT'S A CLOSE RACE BUT HISTORICALLY IT

HAD NOT BEEN. THAT COULD PUT THE CANDIDATE AT A COMPETITIVE

DISADVANTAGE, NOT BEING ABLE TO AVAIL THEMSELVES OF THIS PROGRAM

BECAUSE OF THAT PARTICULAR CRITERIA. DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING?

MS. WALKER: I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. I GUESS MAYBE THAT'S MORE OF A

COMMENT ABOUT THE CRITERIA THAN REALLY A QUESTION. I JUST -- I -- I POINT

THAT OUT, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS MENTIONED TO ME AS, YOU KNOW,

ONE THING. BUT I UNDERSTAND YOU'D ONLY HAVE TO MEET ONE OF THOSE

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK).

MS. WALKER: YOU ONLY HAVE TO MEET ONE, SO

PERHAPS YOU CAN QUALIFY IN A DIFFERENT PARTICULAR AREA AS OPPOSED TO

BEING QUALIFIED FOR THAT FIRST.

MS. WALSH: YEP. UNDERSTAND. SO, I GUESS LAST,

AND I -- I ASK -- I JUST ASK THIS OUT OF CURIOSITY. LET'S SAY THAT YOU HAVE

AN INDIVIDUAL WHO GOES THROUGH ALL THE STEPS, THEY -- THEY'VE FILED AND

INDICATED THAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING IN THE PROGRAM, BUT

THEY REALLY DON'T WANT TO ACTUALLY HAVE TO TAKE ANY MATCHING FUNDS.

CAN THEY QUALIFY AND THEN JUST SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? I DON'T THINK I'M

GOING TO NEED IT. I'VE DONE ENOUGH FUNDRAISING ON MY OWN, I DON'T

REALLY NEED THESE FUNDS OR MY OPPONENT -- YOU KNOW, WELL, MAYBE

YOU'D QUALIFY WITH THE OPPONENT. BUT YOU -- YOU COULD JUST NOT TAKE

THE MONEY, RIGHT?

MS. WALKER: CORRECT.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. AND IF -- IF YOU'RE IN THAT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SITUATION, DO YOU STILL NEVERTHELESS HAVE TO FOLLOW THE CRITERIA THAT SAYS

THAT ALL OF YOUR MAILINGS AND ALL OF YOUR ADVERTISES AND EVERYTHING HAVE

TO HAVE THAT STATEMENT THAT YOU'RE PARTICIPATING IN THIS PROGRAM EVEN IF

YOU REALLY DON'T TAKE THE MONEY?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU SO

MUCH FOR YOUR ANSWERS. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. SLATER.

MR. SLATER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES, I WILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. SLATER: THANK YOU, ASSEMBLYMEMBER

WALKER. JUST A FEW QUESTIONS IN REGARDS TO THE AUDIT PROVISION OF THE

LEGISLATION. I WASN'T HERE WHEN THE ORIGINAL BILL WAS PASSED, BUT I WAS

PLEASED TO SEE THAT THERE IS A REQUIRED AUDIT PROVISION, AND I JUST WANT

TO JUST CONFIRM THE FACT THAT THE NEW BILL -- THE NEW AMENDMENT, EXCUSE

ME, MAINTAINED THE AUDIT PROVISION THAT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL.

MS. WALKER: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. SLATER: FANTASTIC. AND ONCE YOU'RE SELECTED

AS DICTATED UNDER THE -- UNDER THE CODE HERE, ARE YOU REMOVED FROM THE

POOL FROM BEING SELECTED AGAIN IN THE FUTURE?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. WALKER: LET ME DOUBLE-CHECK ON THAT ONE.

MR. SLATER: THANK YOU.

(PAUSE)

MS. WALKER: WELL, I WILL -- I CAN -- I CAN STATE THAT

IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR PUBLIC MATCHING FUNDS, A CANDIDATE MUST NOT

OWE ANY PAYMENTS, REPAYMENTS OR CIVIL PENALTIES TO THE STATE PROGRAM

OR ANY LOCAL PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROGRAM. AND SO IF THAT

PARTICULAR CANDIDATE FALLS WITHIN THOSE PARAMETERS THEN, YOU KNOW,

THOSE RULES WOULD APPLY.

MR. SLATER: RIGHT. BUT I -- I'M JUST READING HERE

THAT ALL PARTICIPATING CANDIDATES IN COVERED ELECTIONS FOR AUDIT THROUGH

A LOTTERY WHICH SHALL BE COMPLETED WITHIN ONE YEAR OF THE ELECTION IN

QUESTION. AND SO IF -- IF YOU'RE CHOSEN OR YOU'RE SELECTED THROUGH THE

LOTTERY PROGRAM --

MS. WALKER: RIGHT.

MR. SLATER: -- RIGHT, WHICH IT SOUNDS LIKE IF I'M

READING THIS CORRECTLY, EVERYONE IS IN THAT POOL.

MS. WALKER: IN THE POOL. MM-HMM.

MR. SLATER: IF YOU'RE SELECTED, DO YOU GET TAKEN

OUT OF THAT POOL FOR THE NEXT AUDIT ROUND?

MS. WALKER: IF YOU -- IF YOU'RE PARTICIPATING IN

THAT PARTICULAR CYCLE THEN YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE LOTTERY AGAIN.

MR. SLATER: OKAY. SO THEN ESSENTIALLY YOU'RE NOT

TAKEN OUT OF THE -- OF THE MIX AS LONG AS YOU'RE IN THE PROGRAM.

MS. WALKER: CORRECT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. SLATER: SO YOU'RE CONSTANTLY QUALIFIED TO BE

SELECTED. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THAT CORRECTLY.

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. SLATER: OKAY. THANK YOU. NOW, YOU ADDED

IN THE TEXT A NEW LINE THAT SAYS THE NAMES OF THE CANDIDATES SELECTED FOR

AN AUDIT SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED UNLESS THERE'S A DECLARED FINDING FOR

WRONGDOING BY -- BY -- EXCUSE ME, BY THE PCFE. SO I'M CURIOUS AS TO

WHY YOU ADDED THAT SPECIFIC LINE INTO THIS SECTION OF THE TEXT?

MS. WALKER: BECAUSE IT'S A RANDOM AUDIT;

HOWEVER, AGAIN, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE, TOO, THAT THERE'S PRECEDENT OF A

PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM. WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE, OF

COURSE, PEOPLE TO RUN FOR OFFICE AT ALL DIFFERENT LEVELS. BUT WE ALSO

WANT TO ENSURE THAT THERE -- THAT THERE IS SOME SYNERGY BETWEEN THE

DIFFERENT PROGRAMS. AND SO THE RANDOM AUDIT WOULD REMAIN PRIVATE;

HOWEVER, IF THERE IS A FINDING OF WRONGDOING, THAT PARTICULAR -- THE

INDICATION OF THAT FINDING WOULD BECOME PUBLIC AT THAT TIME, AND THERE

WILL BE A 30-DAY CURE FOR THOSE VIOLATIONS --

MR. SLATER: CORRECT.

MS. WALKER: -- TO BE RECTIFIED.

MR. SLATER: RIGHT. I'M JUST CURIOUS, THOUGH, FROM

A PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT STANDPOINT IN REGARDS TO THE AUDIT, WOULDN'T IT BE

MORE TRANSPARENT FOR THE PUBLIC AND FOR THE PARTICIPANTS TO KNOW WHO IS

ACTUALLY BEING SELECTED AS PART OF THAT AUDIT PROCESS?

MS. WALKER: WELL, WE BELIEVE IN ORDER TO PROTECT,

OF COURSE, THE INTEGRITY OF THE PROCESS AS WELL AS THE PARTICULAR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

CANDIDATE WHO WAS PARTICIPATING IN THE RANDOM AUDIT. HOWEVER, THAT

CANDIDATE -- THAT CANDIDATE IS FREE TO DISCLOSE THAT HE OR SHE IS BEING

AUDITED AT THE TIME IF THAT INDIVIDUAL SO CHOOSES. THE REQUIREMENT HERE

IS JUST THAT THE BOARD WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE THE CANDIDATE'S

INFORMATION UNLESS THERE'S A FINDING OF WRONGDOING.

MR. SLATER: RIGHT. BUT SO THEN IN THEORY,

SOMEONE -- I COULD BE SELECTED IF I'M PARTICIPATING IN THE PROGRAM, I

COULD BE SELECTED IN THREE CONSECUTIVE CYCLES, BUT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW

THAT UNLESS THERE WAS A WRONGDOING THAT WAS FOUND.

MS. WALKER: UNDER -- PERHAPS YOU COULD SAY, YOU

KNOW, I WAS SELECTED FOR A RANDOM AUDIT. I -- YOU KNOW, I'M

COMPLYING WITH THIS PARTICULAR RANDOM AUDIT. I WANT THE ENTIRE

UNIVERSE TO KNOW THIS. AND -- AND MY FINDING WAS THAT, YOU KNOW,

THERE WAS NO WRONGDOING HERE AND JUST I WANT, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE TO

SEE. AND SO YOU CAN PARTICIPATE IN THE LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY THAT YOU'D

LIKE TO SEE; HOWEVER, IF THERE IS A CANDIDATE WHO HAS BEEN SELECTED IN

THIS LOTTERY FOR AN AUDIT, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS WILL NOT BE REQUIRED TO

DISCLOSE THAT INFORMATION OR THAT FACT UNLESS THERE'S A FINDING OF

WRONGDOING.

MR. SLATER: UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH

FOR MY QUESTIONS.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, IF I MAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. SLATER: I -- I DO WANT TO THANK

ASSEMBLYMEMBER WALKER FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. BUT I'M STILL

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LEFT WITH SOME CONCERN BECAUSE AS WE JUST HEARD, WE'RE BEING BASICALLY

ASKED TO, WITH A WINK AND A NOD FROM THE STATE, TO TRUST US. YOU WON'T

BE SELECTED EVERY TIME. BUT FRANKLY, I THINK WE NEED TO TRUST BUT

VERIFY, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE'RE LEAVING OURSELVES IN A SITUATION

POTENTIALLY WHERE INDIVIDUALS OR SPECIFIC REGIONS OR SPECIFIC PARTIES CAN

BE CONSTANTLY SELECTED BY A, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, "RANDOM LOTTERY" WHICH

WILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE RESULTS ARE UNLESS THERE'S WRONGDOING FOUND.

I DO APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THERE IS AN AUDIT COMPONENT HERE,

ESPECIALLY SINCE WE'RE UTILIZING TAXPAYER DOLLARS. BUT I AM CONCERNED

IN THE LACK OF TRANSPARENCY AND HOW THAT AUDIT IS GOING TO BE

SUPERVISED AND HOW IT'S GOING TO BE IMPLEMENTED.

AND SO WITH THAT IN MIND, MR. SPEAKER, I'LL BE VOTING

IN THE NEGATIVE, AND AGAIN, I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR TAKING MY QUESTIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY.

MS. BYRNES.

MS. BYRNES: THANK YOU. MR. SPEAKER, IF THE

SPONSOR WOULD YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER YIELDS.

MS. BYRNES: I'M SURE THAT THIS QUESTION IS VERY

SIMPLE TO ANSWER, SO I APOLOGIZE. BUT AS I LOOK AT IT I DON'T UNDERSTAND

THE VERBIAGE. MY DISTRICT HAS HAD MORE MOVES THAN THE ENERGIZER

BUNNY LATELY, SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT --

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THAT THE DONORS MUST LIVE IN THE CANDIDATE'S DISTRICT AT THE TIME OF THE

DONATION. IN OTHER WORDS, IN-DISTRICT DONORS. IS THAT THE DISTRICT AS IT

CURRENTLY EXISTS, OR IT IS THE DISTRICT THAT WILL EXIST? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW

IF I WERE TO TAKE DONATIONS FROM WHERE I'M GOING TO REPRESENT IN

JANUARY OF 2025 -- OR PRESUMABLY REPRESENT IN JANUARY OF 2025, NONE

OF THOSE PEOPLE -- NOT A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE IN -- IN-DISTRICT NOW.

SO, THE -- YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE OUT FOR THE -- FOR THE

PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR IN MY ELECTION, THEY ARE -- AND WOULD

HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN WHO THEY DONATE TO ARE NOT PEOPLE RIGHT NOW

THAT ARE IN THE DISTRICT. SO HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT HOW UNDER THIS LAW

YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE SOLICITING FOR FUNDS ARE

IN-DISTRICT DONORS? I PROBABLY DIDN'T EXPLAIN THAT WELL, BUT YOU GET THE

GIST.

MS. WALKER: NO, YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE. SO, THE

SNAPSHOT GETS TAKEN AT THE TIME THAT THE CONTRIBUTION IS MADE.

MS. BYRNES: RIGHT.

MS. WALKER: SO WHEREVER OR WHICHEVER DISTRICT

THAT YOU LIVE IN WHEN YOU MAKE THE CONTRIBUTION, THAT'S HOW THE

IN-DISTRICT JUSTIFICATION OR DETERMINATION WILL BE MADE.

MS. BYRNES: SO ACTUALLY, PEOPLE THAT WILL BE

VOTING FOR ME CAN'T DONATE TO ME, THEN, AND BE PART OF THIS PROCESS.

THAT JUST KIND OF SOUNDS WRONG THAT THE PEOPLE THAT -- THE FUNDS ARE

GOING TO BE USED TO SOLICIT THEIR VOTES CAN'T BE ANY PART OF THE COLLECTION

PROCESS OF FUNDS. DO YOU SEE WHERE I'M COMING FROM? I MEAN, THAT

JUST -- IT KIND OF DOESN'T MAKE SENSE THAT THE PEOPLE WHERE I'M

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CAMPAIGNING AREN'T ONES THAT CAN CONTRIBUTE UNDER THIS LAW.

(PAUSE)

MS. WALKER: SO, WHEN YOU -- SO IF YOU'RE

SOLICITING FROM A PARTICULAR CONTRIBUTOR WHO LIVES WITHIN THE PRESENT

CURRENT -- WITHIN THE PRESENT LINES OF THE 251ST DISTRICT, AND THOSE LINES

HAPPENED TO SUBSEQUENTLY CHANGE AND NOW THAT PERSON IS NOT WITHIN

THE 251ST DISTRICT; HOWEVER WHEN THEY MADE THEIR QUALIFYING

CONTRIBUTION TO YOU OF $250, THEN THAT $250 REMAINS MATCHABLE

BECAUSE THE -- THE SNAPSHOT IS TAKEN WHEN THEY LIVED IN THE DISTRICT AT

THE TIME THAT THEY'VE MADE THE CONTRIBUTION.

MS. BYRNES: I GUESS THE ONLY THING THAT -- THAT I'M

CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT IT MEANS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE

VOTING IN THE ELECTION WHO DON'T CURRENTLY LIVE IN THE DISTRICT BUT WILL --

ARE THE VOTERS THAT YOU'RE USING THIS MONEY TO SOLICIT WHO DON'T RIGHT

NOW LIVE IN THE DISTRICT, OR FOR THAT MATTER, LET'S SAY MY OPPONENT.

RIGHT NOW THEY -- THEY DON'T -- YOU KNOW, THIS -- THEY DON'T REPRESENT A

DISTRICT, SO THEY'RE FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME RUNNING FOR THE NEW DISTRICT.

CAN THEY SOLICIT FROM PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T OR ARE THEY RESTRICTED TO THE

DISTRICT THAT'S GOING TO BE DISINTEGRATED?

MS. WALKER: SO, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT AN INDIVIDUAL

-- SO UNLESS THE DISTRICT IS IN PLACE PRESENTLY, I'M TRYING TO IMAGINE A

CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE SOMEONE IS SOLICITING OR CAMPAIGNING IN A DISTRICT

THAT DOESN'T EXIST.

MS. BYRNES: WELL, NO -- WELL, YOU DID BECAUSE WE

REDISTRICTED. I'M PICKING -- I'M LOSING TOWNS, I'M PICKING UP TOWNS,

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AND MY DISTRICT AS IT EXISTS RIGHT NOW IS NOT -- AND WHERE I LIVE IS NOT

THE DISTRICT I'M GOING TO BE CAMPAIGNING FOR. BECAUSE IT SHIFTED

DRAMATICALLY. THIS IS ACTUALLY THE THIRD TIME IN FIVE YEARS. BUT, I

MEAN, SO IT JUST -- I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WHO -- LIKE, IF I'M GOING TO

GO IN AN AREA CAMPAIGNING AND I CAN'T ASK THEM FOR MONEY THAT WOULD

PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM WHEN I'M GOING TO BE THEIR REPRESENTATIVE.

THAT JUST DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT.

MS. WALKER: SO, WE ARE IN A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE

THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING REDISTRICTING ATMOSPHERE; HOWEVER, THE

QUESTION THAT YOU SEEM TO BE ASKING ABOUT IS MORE ABOUT WHAT THE

DISTRICT WILL LOOK LIKE IN SOME SPACE THAT I CANNOT ANSWER. BUT WHAT I

CAN SAY IS THIS: YOU HAVE A DISTRICT RIGHT NOW THAT YOU REPRESENT.

MS. BYRNES: CORRECT.

MS. WALKER: AND IF THERE IS AN INDIVIDUAL, IF

YOU'RE PARTICIPATING IN THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM, YOU

HAVE SIGNED UP TO PARTICIPATE, YOU ARE QUALIFIED AS A PARTICIPANT, AND ON

DECEMBER 15TH IF YOU'VE COLLECTED ANY RESOURCES THAT ARE DEEMED

MATCHABLE, THAT WHENEVER THAT PERSON MAKES THAT CONTRIBUTION THIS

YEAR, IN THIS DISTRICT, IT WILL QUALIFY FOR MATCHING FUNDS. IF YOUR DISTRICT

HAPPENS TO CHANGE NEXT YEAR, THAT IS, YOU KNOW, IN THE FORESEEABLE

FUTURE, IT DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR WHERE WE ARE TODAY. SO TODAY YOUR

DISTRICT IS AS IT STANDS.

MS. BYRNES: SO I -- I CAN TAKE CONTRIBUTIONS FROM

PEOPLE THAT WHEN -- WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO VOTE FOR ME. LIKE IN TOWNS

THAT CANNOT PARTICIPATE IN THE ELECTION IN NOVEMBER OF -- OF 2024, THEY

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ACTUALLY CAN CONTRIBUTE TO ME AND HAVE IT PART OF THE MATCHING FUNDS,

BUT THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE WHERE I'M GOING TO BE CAMPAIGNING AND

REPRESENTING CAN'T. LET -- LET ME PUT IT IN A CLEARER WAY. LET'S TAKE IT

THIS WAY. LET'S MAKE IT AN OPEN SEAT, AND -- AND FOR -- SOMEONE IS

RUNNING FOR THE FIRST TIME. AND RIGHT NOW A DISTRICT EXISTS BUT THEY'RE

GOING TO BE RUNNING FOR A DIFFERENT CONSTRUCTED DISTRICT, EVERYONE'S

COMING IN COLD --

MS. WALKER: WHERE IS THIS DISTRICT? HOW --

WHERE DOES THIS DISTRICT EXIST? LIKE, HOW DO THEY KNOW WHAT THE LINES

ARE?

MS. BYRNES: WELL, YOU -- THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN

DRAWN. WE VOTED ON THEM, YOU APPROVED THEM THIS YEAR.

MS. WALKER: OKAY.

MS. BYRNES: SO WE'RE GOOD TO GO, BUT THEY'RE

CHANGING. AND, YOU KNOW SO, YOU KNOW, I'VE SHIFTED DRAMATICALLY.

MS. WALKER: YOU HAVE ME VERY CONFUSED. WHERE

IS THIS DISTRICT THAT DIDN'T EXIST?

MS. BYRNES: SOUTH OF THE CITY OF ROCHESTER, THE

COUNTY OF LIVINGSTON.

MS. WALKER: SO YOUR DISTRICT IS GOING TO BE

CHANGING WHEN?

MS. BYRNES: AFTER -- AFTER THE NEXT ELECTION. THE

NEXT ELECTION I'LL REPRESENT WHERE I AM NOW FOR THE NEXT

YEAR-AND-A-HALF, BUT WHEN I RUN FOR RE-ELECTION IN NOVEMBER OF 2024,

I'M RUNNING FOR A DIFFERENTLY-DRAWN DISTRICT WITH DIFFERENT TOWNS,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

DIFFERENT PARAMETERS, DIFFERENT PEOPLE, DIFFERENT COUNTIES OR -- YEAH,

DIFFERENT COUNTIES PARTIALLY. AND, LIKE, SO WHERE CAN I GET -- BUT IF WE

TAKE ME OUT OF IT AND JUST SAY THE DISTRICT THAT'S GOING TO BE RUN FOR IN

JAN -- IN NOVEMBER OF 2024, IT IS GOING TO ENCOMPASS --

MS. WALKER: ANOTHER AREA.

MS. BYRNES: YEAH, 37 -- 37 TOWNS KIND OF AROUND

LIVINGSTON COUNTY. WOULD -- WOULD SOMEBODY SOLICITING FUNDS COLD

BE ABLE TO GO TO THAT DISTRICT IN ORDER, YOU KNOW, WHO'S NOT HOLDING

OFFICE AND IS THAT WHERE THEY WOULD GO TO HAVE THE MATCHING FUNDS?

AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN THE INCUMBENT SHOULD HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS

AS THE PERSON COMING IN COLD.

MS. WALKER: OKAY. IF THAT PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL --

SO THE CONTRIBUTION IS COUNTED BASED ON THE DISTRICT AT THE TIME THAT THE

CONTRIBUTION IS MADE. YOU FOLLOW ME ON THAT?

MS. BYRNES: ANYBODY WHO WAS COMING IN COLD

HAS TO SOLICIT CONTRIBUTIONS FROM A DISTRICT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO

REPRESENT IN ORDER TO RUN FOR ELECTIONS SOMEWHERE ELSE. I APOLOGIZE FOR

MY FRUSTRATION, BUT I MEAN -- IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT WHEN WE SOLICIT, WE

SHOULD BE SOLICITING FOR THE CONSTITUENTS OF THE DISTRICT WE'RE GOING TO

BE REPRESENTING AND WHERE THEY LIVE.

(PAUSE)

OR MAYBE JUST BY AMENDING IT TO INDICATE THAT WHEN

YOU NEED TO GET CONTRIBUTIONS FROM PEOPLE IN THE DISTRICT THAT YOU MEAN

IN THE DISTRICT THAT PEOPLE ARE RUNNING FOR.

MS. WALKER: THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS IN THE BILL. I

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MEAN, IT'S JUST I'M CONFUSED AS TO -- YOU KNOW WHAT THE DISTRICT LOOKS

LIKE, RIGHT, YOU KNOW WHAT THE DISTRICT LINES ARE.

MS. BYRNES: I KNOW WHAT THE DISTRICT LINES LOOK

LIKE THAT I'M GOING TO BE RUNNING FOR IN A YEAR-AND-A-HALF.

MS. WALKER: RIGHT.

MS. BYRNES: RIGHT. BUT YOU SAID --

MS. WALKER: SO YOU GO THERE --

MS. BYRNES: BUT IF I TAKE CONTRIBUTIONS THIS YEAR

FOR THAT ELECTION, OR MY OPPONENT, I, YOU KNOW, I MEAN IT GENERICALLY,

THEN -- BUT IT'S NOT THE DISTRICT NOW. ALL I'M ASKING IS CAN WE GO TO

WHERE THE DISTRICT IS GOING TO BE, IS THAT THE PEOPLE THAT COUNT --

MS. WALKER: YES.

MS. BYRNES: BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THOSE AREN'T THE

PEOPLE THAT ARE IN DISTRICT.

MS. WALKER: YES.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT. WE'RE SURE ABOUT THAT?

MS. WALKER: YES. IF I'M SURE ABOUT YOUR

QUESTION, YEAH. BUT I AM SURE OF THAT. I LOVE THE THEATRICS, BUT I AM

STILL -- SO THE DISTRICT THAT YOU ARE RUNNING IN WILL BE THE DISTRICT LINES.

YOU KNOW WHAT THOSE DISTRICT LINES LOOK LIKE.

MS. BYRNES: RIGHT.

MS. WALKER: IF YOU TAKE A CONTRIBUTION OUT OF

THOSE LINES THAT YOU WILL BE RUNNING IN IN 2024, THEN THAT IS THE

SNAPSHOT THAT YOU CAN UTILIZE IN ORDER TO GET MAGICAL FUNDS WITHIN THAT

PARTICULAR DISTRICT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. BYRNES: AND THAT'LL BE CONSIDERED DONORS THAT

LIVE IN THE DISTRICT AT THE TIME OF THE DONATION?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MS. BYRNES: EVEN THOUGH WE'RE IN -- WE'RE SAYING

THIS WAS GOING TO BE OVER HERE. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE

OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE

MIX AND NOBODY WANTS TO UNNECESSARILY WASTE TIME.

MS. WALKER: YES.

MS. BYRNES: ALL RIGHT, OKAY. I'LL RUN WITH THAT.

WE GOT YOU ON RECORD.

MS. WALKER: GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: YES, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER YIELDS.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MS. WALKER. I

DON'T REALLY HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, BUT JUST ONE AREA THAT HAS KIND OF

BEEN PUZZLING ME TODAY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE, AND I

THINK YOU TALKED ABOUT IT, I JUST WANT TO HEAR IT AGAIN IF I MAY. WHEN

WE TALKED ABOUT WHEN WE PASSED THIS PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING

SYSTEM BACK A FEW YEARS AGO, IT WAS ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT AND SAID THIS

WAS $100 MILLION PROGRAM, WE'RE GOING TO SPEND $100 MILLION, THERE'S

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

LIKE A CHECK-OFF, PEOPLE WHO DONATE AND THEN IT WOULD BE UP TO $100

MILLION IS THE WAY I UNDERSTOOD IT TO BE. SO NOW, IS THAT NOT THE CASE OR

IS IT BASED ON A DEMAND? IF WE HAVE AN INFLUX OF PEOPLE THAT WANT TO

PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROGRAM, COULD IT BE $200 MILLION, $300 MILLION? IS

THERE LIMIT OR A CAP OF ANY SORT OR COULD WE GO AS MUCH AS THEIR INTEREST

IN TO PARTICIPATE?

MS. WALKER: SO DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF

PARTICIPANTS WITHIN THE PROGRAM WILL DETERMINE HOW MUCH MONEY

WOULD BE REQUIRED.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY.

MS. WALKER: AND THEN, AGAIN, WE WOULD REVISIT

ANY ADDITIONAL RESOURCES ABOVE THE $100 MILLION DURING NEXT YEAR'S

BUDGET DELIBERATIONS.

MR. PALMESANO: SO IF WE EXCEED THAT DOLLAR

AMOUNT, IF IT'S SHOWING THAT, IF PEOPLE ENTER INTO THE SYSTEM AND THEY'RE

GETTING THE FUNDS AND THEY'RE QUALIFYING, AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE

ARE COMING IN, MORE PEOPLE ARE ENTERING THE SYSTEM AND IT GOES ABOVE

THAT $100 MILLION OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, COULD IT -- COULD IT

ESSENTIALLY GO UP TO $200 MILLION, $300 MILLION -- IS IT -- DOES THE STATE

HAVE TO PAY OUT WHOEVER IS PARTICIPATING IN A PROGRAM AND WHATEVER

THEY MEET FOR THAT THRESHOLD SO THEY ALL QUALIFY FOR THE 145,000? I

MEAN THE STATE HAS TO PAY THAT TOTAL AMOUNT OUT, REGARDLESS OF HOW

MUCH EVEN IF IT'S ABOVE $100 MILLION?

MS. WALKER: WE WILL ADDRESS THOSE QUESTIONS

WITHIN OUR NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS AND CONVERSATIONS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. I GUESS IN THE SAME

CONTEXT, THEN, I GUESS GOING DOWN THE ROAD WE'RE GOING TO BE FACING

PROJECTIVE BUDGET DEFICITS I BELIEVE IN -- IN 2025 WE'RE FACING A

PROJECTED $9 BILLION BUDGET DEFICIT; 2026, $13 BILLION BUDGET DEFICIT. I

MEAN, I KNOW THAT'S A SNAPSHOT IN TIME, BUT IT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO THAT AREA IF WE'RE DEALING WITH THE BUDGET DEFICIT

AND WE HAVE THIS PUBLIC FINANCING CAMPAIGN SYSTEM IN PLACE AND IT'S

$100 MILLION AND THAT'S WORTH PAYING, PEOPLE ARE PARTICIPATING, IT'S A

ROLLING SO THEY'RE ALWAYS IN THE SYSTEM ONCE THEY'RE IN GENERALLY

SPEAKING. ARE WE COMMITTED TO PAY THAT MONEY OUT REGARDLESS OF THE

OTHER SPENDING WE'RE SPENDING IN THE BUDGET, EVEN WITH A BUDGET

DEFICIT THAT WE HAVE? CAN WE GO IN AND SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO SPEND

ANY MORE MONEY ON THE TAXPAYER -- ON THE CAMPAIGN SYSTEM IF WE

WANT?

MS. WALKER: WELL, AGAIN, WE WILL TAKE A LOOK TO

SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE PARTICIPATING WITHIN THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN

FINANCING PROGRAM AND ANY DETERMINATIONS WITH RESPECT TO ANY

BUDGETARY INCREASES WILL BE HANDLED DURING OUR BUDGET NEGOTIATING

PROCESS.

MR. PALMESANO: BUT ISN'T IT FAIR TO ASSUME THAT

THERE'S JUST GOING TO BE MORE PEOPLE ENTERING THE SYSTEM BECAUSE AS

MORE PEOPLE BECOME AWARE OF IT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE PEOPLE

ENTERING INTO IT SO MORE PEOPLE QUALIFYING FOR MORE MATCHING FUNDS,

HENCE MORE TAXPAYER MONEY GOING TO PAY FOR THAT PROGRAM. SO ISN'T IT

FAIR TO SAY THAT THE DOLLARS ARE JUST GOING TO KEEP GOING UP, THEY'RE NOT

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GOING TO GO DOWN AND THEN --

MS. WALKER: WELL, WE'RE ALSO INCREASING THE

THRESHOLD SO THERE SHOULD BE SOME OFFSET WITH RESPECT TO THAT PARTICULAR

INCREASE AS WELL.

MR. PALMESANO: WHEN YOU SAY THE THRESH -- YOU

MEAN INCREASING THE THRESHOLD OR DECREASING THE THRESHOLD? WHEN YOU

SAY THRESHOLD, WHEN YOU SAY --

MS. WALKER: RIGHT. WE HAVE INCREASED THE

MINIMUM QUALIFYING THRESHOLD.

MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT. BUT THAT BEING SAID,

THOUGH, IF I'M JUST -- I MEAN, IT MIGHT BE HYPOTHETICAL, BUT IT'S A REALLY

REAL SCENARIO ESPECIALLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BUDGETING. IF MORE PEOPLE

ARE COMING INTO THE PROGRAM, IF MORE PEOPLE GET EXCITED ABOUT IT AND

THEY SAY, HEY, I CAN GET THIS MUCH MONEY, YOU KNOW, I'LL GET $2,500 FOR

A $250 DONATION, WE'RE COMMITTED TO THAT. ONCE WE'RE IN THAT PROGRAM,

WE'RE COMMITTED TO PAY THAT OUT. SO EVEN IF IT GETS OVER -- I KNOW WE

SAY WE'LL TAKE IT UP ON THE NEXT BUDGET CONSIDERATION, BUT WE ARE

OBLIGATED TO PAY THAT OUT UNLESS THEY'RE IN THE SYSTEM, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: THAT'S CORRECT; HOWEVER, I ALSO WANT

YOU TO CONSIDER THE FACT THAT WE'VE LOWERED THE PAYOUT FROM 175,000 TO

145,000.

MR. PALMESANO: I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT

EVEN WITH THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT -- I THINK IT'S ABOUT $23 MILLION JUST

FOR 150 ASSEMBLYMEMBERS, IT'S $23 MILLION FOR 63 SENATORS BUT THEN

YOU THROW IN OPPONENTS, THAT CAN ADD UP QUICKLY. SO I GUESS THIS IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

BASICALLY ALMOST LIKE AN ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM BECAUSE ONCE YOU'RE IN IT,

ONCE WE HAVE IT, WE'RE COMMITTED TO PAYING FOR IT, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: WELL THAT'S -- SO YOU -- YOU PUT OUT

SOME NUMBERS, BUT THAT'S ASSUMING ARGUENDO THAT EVERY PARTICULAR

MEMBER IS GOING TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM FIRST, AND THEN IT ALSO

ASSUMES THAT ANY PARTICULAR CHALLENGER IS ALSO GOING TO PARTICIPATE IN

THIS PROGRAM, AND TO WIT WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THAT WILL PROBABLY NOT

BE THE CASE.

MR. PALMESANO: I ACCEPT THAT PROMISE, I'M JUST

THINKING HYPOTHETICALLY. AND I THINK FROM A BUDGETING PERSPECTIVE, WE

HAVE TO BE READY FOR ALL SCENARIOS. SO I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND,

THOUGH, THE WAY THIS PROGRAM IS SET UP THAT WE'RE COMMITTED TO PAY OUT

WHOSE EVER IN IT ON A ROLLING BASIS BECAUSE IF WE PAY OUT THROUGHOUT

THE YEAR, ONCE YOU'RE IN, YOU'RE GONNA GET THOSE MATCHING FUNDS. AND

SO I'M THINKING THAT THE GROSS IS GOING TO BE THERE. SO IS IT NOT -- SO IT

COULD BE 100 MILLION, IT COULD BE 200 MILLION, WE'RE COMMITTED TO

THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE PROGRAM, RIGHT? SO ONCE

THEY'RE IN, WE CAN'T GO BACK AND TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM THEM JUST FOR

THE SAKE OF TAKING MONEY, BUT IF WE GET TO THESE $13 BILLION BUDGET

DEFICITS AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THROUGH OUR BUDGET PROCESS, WE'RE GOING

TO HAVE TO PAY OUT THE MONEY FOR THE TAXPAYER-FUNDED CAMPAIGN

SYSTEM AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE TOUGH

DECISIONS AS A BODY, DO WE CUT SCHOOL FUNDING, DO WE CUT LIBRARY

FUNDING, DO WE CUT FUNDING FOR OUR LOCAL ROADS AND BRIDGES BECAUSE

THAT MONEY FOR THE CAMPAIGN FUNDING SYSTEM HAS TO BE PAID OUT, WE

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CAN'T CUT IT, CORRECT?

MS. WALKER: I AM -- I WILL STILL STATE THAT AS

OPPOSED TO, YOU KNOW, DEALING WITH SOME SORT OF MYSTERY 2024, THAT

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES WILL BE AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT

IN TIME --

MR. PALMESANO: I UNDERSTAND THAT.

MS. WALKER: THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH THOSE

CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN THAT PARTICULAR PERIOD IN TIME IS UPON US. AS MY

-- AS MY MOM WOULD SAY, WE WILL CROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN WE GET TO IT.

MR. PALMESANO: I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I THINK I

JUST TRY TO LOOK AHEAD FROM A BUDGETING PERSPECTIVE, BUT I THINK IT'S

SMART TO DO THAT, AND JUST TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE SET UP OF THIS PROGRAM.

LIKE OUR SCHOOLS, FUNDING FOR OUR SCHOOLS, EVERY YEAR AND EVERY BUDGET

WE'RE ALWAYS INCREASING FUNDING FOR OUR SCHOOLS. BUT IF -- THERE WAS

TIMES WHEN WE WOULD CUT FUNDING TO SCHOOLS BECAUSE -- BECAUSE THERE

WAS A BIG DEFICIT. AND I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, WE CAN --

IF WE'RE IN A MAJOR DEFICIT, WE CAN -- OPPORTUNITIES TO CUT FUNDING THE

SCHOOLS, BUT FOR THIS CAMPAIGN FUNDING -- CAMPAIGN FINANCING SYSTEM

AND THE WAY IT'S SET UP, IF YOU'RE IN IT, YOU HAVE TO PAY IT OUT, WE'RE

OBLIGATED TO PAY IT OUT, THE COMPTROLLER HAS TO PAY IT OUT. AND I KNOW

THE DOLLAR AMOUNT IS FEASIBLE BUT ISN'T THAT -- ISN'T THAT TRUE? IT'S

BASICALLY LIKE AN ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM, ONCE YOU'RE IN IT, YOU'RE PAYING

IT OUT. AND WE WON'T BE ABLE TO CUT THAT MONEY TO THAT PROGRAM IF

PEOPLE -- IF THAT'S GROWING AND FOR WHATEVER REASON MORE PEOPLE ARE

PARTICIPATING IN. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND

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ABOUT DEALING WITH THE REAL LIFE SITUATION AND WE'LL DEAL WITH IT WHEN IT

COMES, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THE WAY THIS PROGRAM IS SET UP,

ONCE YOU'RE IN IT, YOU'RE GOING TO GET PAID AND IF THERE'S A BUDGET

DEFICIT, WE DON'T CUT THAT, WE'D HAVE TO CUT SOMETHING ELSE FIRST; ISN'T

THAT PRETTY ACCURATE?

MS. WALKER: WELL, LET ME SAY THIS: ONCE YOU ARE

IN THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING PROGRAM, YOU ARE IN IT. IF THERE IS

SOME CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH GETS CREATED, WHICH IS AN EMERGENCY, I

BELIEVE THAT THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WILL BE HANDLED AT THAT TIME.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY, ALL RIGHT.

MS. WALKER: SO BUT FOR PRESENTLY, IF YOU ARE IN

THE PARTICULAR PROGRAM -- IF YOU'RE IN THE PROGRAM, THEN YOU'RE IN THE

PROGRAM.

MR. PALMESANO: THEN YOU'RE IN THE PROGRAM AND

MS. WALKER: AND WE DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT THERE

WILL -- THAT EVERYONE WILL ACTUALLY, A, QUALIFY FOR MATCHING FUNDS OR, B,

STAND 100 PERCENT BEHIND THE FACT THAT THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS HAS

BEEN GEARING UP AND IS READY TO IMPLEMENT THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM ON

DAY ONE.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MS. WALKER, FOR

YOUR TIME. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. PALMESANO: I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE DIALOG

WITH MY -- WITH THE SPONSOR, AND WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT WITH MY

QUESTIONS IS THE WAY THIS PROGRAM IS SET UP, AND I THINK SHE ANSWERED

MY QUESTION FROM THE -- THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE, ONCE YOU'RE IN THIS

PROGRAM, YOU'RE IN. SO THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU'RE IN, IT'S AN

ENTITLEMENT. YOU'RE GOING TO GET THIS MONEY EVERY QUARTER WHEN THEY

MAKE THE PAYOUTS, THE MONEY'S THERE. AND WE TALK ABOUT $100 MILLION

WHEN WE STARTED IT, BUT IF THIS PROGRAM GROWS AND MORE PEOPLE ARE

GROWING AND MORE PEOPLE ARE ENTERING IT, IT'S GOING TO INCREASE IN

FUNDING, JUST LIKE IT HAPPENED IN NEW YORK CITY. AND THAT'S WHERE MY

CONCERN IS.

SO THIS PROGRAM WILL TAKE PRIORITY OVER OTHER

PROGRAMS. IF THERE'S A BUDGET DEFICIT, LIKE PROJECTED IN THE OUT-YEARS

WE'RE LOOKING AT, $13 BILLION BUDGET DEFICIT IN 2026, WHAT I'M TRYING TO

GET AT FOR THE DISCUSSION WHAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT, THIS SYSTEM IS BEING

SET UP IS AN ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM SO ONCE YOU'RE IN, LIKE THE SPONSOR

SAID, YOU'RE IN. AND THE MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN, THEY'RE IN AND THEN

WE'RE COMMITTED TO MAKING THOSE PAYOUTS. NOW, YES, I KNOW NOT

EVERYONE'S GOING TO ENTER IN IT, NOT EVERYONE'S GOING TO PARTICIPATE, NOT

EVERYONE'S GOING TO QUALIFY, BUT THE FACT OF THE WAY THE PROGRAM IS SET

UP I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, WE'RE SAYING THIS SYSTEM TAKES

PRIORITY, IT'S AN ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM VERSUS OTHER PROGRAMS. AND I

THINK ABOUT EVEN IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT $100 MILLION, I MEAN, MY

GOODNESS. I MEAN, I WAS OPPOSED TO THIS PROGRAM FROM THE GET-GO, I

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THINK IT'S JUST REALLY -- THIS IS REALLY JUST ANOTHER MISGUIDED POLICY BY

THE MAJORITY AND THE GOVERNOR WHO SIGNED ONTO IT TO -- WITH THE USE OF

TAXPAYER DOLLARS. IF YOU TALK ABOUT $100 MILLION OR PLUS, IF YOU GO TO

YOUR PEOPLE IN YOUR DISTRICT AND YOU SAY, AND YOU ASK THEM, THE PEOPLE

YOU REPRESENT, WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE $100 MILLION TO GO TO FUND YOUR

LOCAL ROADS AND BRIDGES, OR WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE $100 MILLION COME

TO HELP FUND MY CAMPAIGN? AND THE VOLUNTARY SYSTEM WE HAD, HAS

HAD ITS PROBLEMS, NO QUESTION. WE COULD HAVE REFORM. BUT THE THING

ABOUT THE VOLUNTARY SYSTEM, YOU GET TO CHOOSE WHO YOU DONATE TO. BUT

NOW WE'RE TELLING PEOPLE, HEY, I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR -- YOUR POLITICAL

IDEOLOGY, WE'RE TELLING PEOPLE, OUR TAXPAYERS, I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR

POLITICAL IDEOLOGY, I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU DO, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? YOUR

TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE STILL GOING TO COME FUND MY CAMPAIGN. I THINK

THAT'S VERY PROBLEMATIC AND I THINK IT'S REALLY JUST A DISREGARD FOR THE

TAXPAYERS. WE'RE NOT SERVING THEM THROUGH THIS POLICY. I THINK IF YOU

TALK TO YOUR TAXPAYERS -- YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED $100 MILLION FOR ROADS

AND BRIDGES, HOW ABOUT FOR YOUR LIBRARIES OR FOR FUNDING POLITICIANS

CAMPAIGNS? I THINK 99 PERCENT OF THEM ARE GOING TO SAY OUR LIBRARIES.

WELL, HOW ABOUT THIS? HOW ABOUT FOR OUR MOST VULNERABLE NEW

YORKERS, THOSE INDIVIDUALS WITH INTELLECTUAL DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES,

HOW ABOUT FUNDING THEIR QUALITY CARE AND THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE AND MAKE

THAT A PRIORITY. I THINK THIS PROGRAM DOESN'T SHOW THAT'S A PRIORITY.

BUDGETING IS ALL ABOUT PRIORITIES, AND WHAT DOES THAT SAY THAT WE'RE NOT

TAKING CARE OF OUR MOST VULNERABLE CITIZENS, BUT YET, WE'RE SPENDING

$100 MILLION-PLUS -- AND IT COULD BE MORE, ON A TAXPAYER FUNDED

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

CAMPAIGN SYSTEM THAT WILL TAKE PRIORITY WHEN IT COMES TO BUDGETING IF

WE HAD A DEFICIT BECAUSE, LIKE THE SPONSOR SAID, ONCE YOU'RE IN, YOU'RE

IN. THAT MONEY'S THERE, IT'S AN ENTITLEMENT.

SO LOCAL ROADS AND BRIDGES OR LIBRARIES, OUR MOST

VULNERABLE CITIZENS OR INDIVIDUALS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL AND INTELLECTUAL

DISABILITIES, OR HOW ABOUT DIRECT SUPPORT PROFESSIONALS WHO CARE FOR

THEM? PAYING THEM A LIVING WAGE INSTEAD OF PAYING FOR THE RUN AND

FINANCE CAMPAIGNS. OR OUR SCHOOLS, OR OUR VETERANS, OR OUR SENIORS, OR

HERE'S A NOVEL IDEA, WHY DON'T WE GIVE THAT $100 MILLION BACK TO THE

TAXPAYER? I MEAN, THEY PAY ENOUGH. AND WHEN WE HAVE A SITUATION

WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT OUT-YEARS IN A FISCAL SITUATION AND WE'RE FACING

POSSIBLY $13 BILLION IN BUDGET DEFICITS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CUT

FUNDING SOMEWHERE. BUT THE CHOICE IS GOING TO BE CUT SCHOOLS, CUT

LIBRARIES, CUT ROADS AND BRIDGES, BUT WE WON'T BE ABLE TO CUT THIS

PROGRAM BECAUSE AS THE SPONSOR SAID, ONCE YOU'RE IN, YOU'RE IN. AND

THIS PROGRAM WILL CONTINUE TO GROW, AND I JUST THINK THAT'S VERY, VERY

PROBLEMATIC, IT SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE TO THE TAXPAYERS WE

REPRESENT. I DON'T THINK MOST OF THE TAXPAYERS UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM.

AND I THINK IF WE EXPLAINED IT THAT THEIR TAX DOLLARS ARE COMING TO FUND

OUR CAMPAIGNS, THEY WOULD BE SICKENED BY IT, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT

AWARE OF IT. JUST LIKE OTHER POLICIES. WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE ENERGY

POLICY COMING DOWN THE PIPELINE, THE PUBLIC'S NOT AWARE OF HOW MUCH

THIS IS GOING TO COST THEM. THEY'RE NOT AWARE OF THIS. THEY WOULD

RATHER HAVE THEIR TAXPAYER DOLLARS GO TO HELP PEOPLE, NOT HELP FUND

POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS. AND WHY SHOULD A TAXPAYER HAVE TO FUND MY

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CAMPAIGN, OR YOUR CAMPAIGN IF THEY VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE WITH MY

POSITION OR YOUR POSITION ON AN ISSUE. THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO, BUT YET,

THIS IS WHAT THE SYSTEM, THIS BODY SET IN PLACE, THE TAXPAYER FUNDING

CAMPAIGN SYSTEM. IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK. IT'S JUST BASICALLY ANOTHER

MISGUIDED POLICY THAT IS A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON OUR TAXPAYERS AS A STATE.

AND I JUST THINK IT'S VERY, VERY PROBLEMATIC AND IT'S GOING TO BECOME

MORE AND MORE PROBLEMATIC AS IT GOES ON.

SO FOR THAT REASON, MR. SPEAKER, I'M GOING TO BE

VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE MY

COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MR. NOVAKHOV.

MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUICK QUESTION?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALLACE [SIC],

WILL YOU YIELD?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS.

WALKER. SO MY COLLEAGUE WAS DISCUSSING WITH YOU THE REDISTRICTING

ISSUE, AND I'M SO SORRY, BUT IT WASN'T CLEAR TO ME WHAT IS GOING ON WITH

REALITY SO I UNFORTUNATELY WILL NEED TO ASK YOU A QUESTION IN REGARDS TO

-- TO THAT. SO WHAT MS. BYRNES MEANT IS SHE IS RUNNING IN DISTRICT -- IN

A NEW DISTRICT WHICH WE WILL CALL DISTRICT A, RIGHT?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. NOVAKHOV: RIGHT. AND -- BUT NOW SHE LIVES

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

-- SHE LIVES AND -- AND -- AND RUNS DISTRICT B. SO BY THIS BILL, SHE WILL

BE ABLE TO RECEIVE DONATIONS FROM HER FUTURE DISTRICT.

MS. WALKER: WHICH IS ALREADY DRAWN, CORRECTLY --

CORRECT?

MR. NOVAKHOV: WHICH IS DISTRICT A.

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. NOVAKHOV: RIGHT?

MS. WALKER: YES.

MR. NOVAKHOV: BUT SHE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO

RECEIVE DONATIONS FROM AN EXISTING DISTRICT THAT SHE CURRENTLY LIVES IN. I

-- I JUST WANT TO...

MS. WALKER: I AM GOING TO READ FROM THE BILL --

MR. NOVAKHOV: OKAY. AND I'LL TRY TO

UNDERSTAND.

MS. WALKER: -- AND THEN WE CAN -- YES.

MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU.

MS. WALKER: A CONTRIBUTION FOR ANY CURRENT

ELECTIONS HELD IN THE SAME ELECTION CYCLE MADE -- MADE BY A NATURAL

PERSON WHO AT THE TIME SUCH CONTRIBUTION IS MADE IS ALSO A RESIDENT OF

SUCH STATE ASSEMBLY OR STATE SENATE DISTRICT FROM WHICH SUCH

CANDIDATE IS SEEKING NOMINATION OR ELECTION, RIGHT? SO ACCORDING TO

YOUR FACT PATTERN, IF THERE IS A FUTURE DISTRICT B THAT SHE IS RUNNING IN,

AND A PERSON WHO LIVES WITHIN THAT DISTRICT MAKES A CONTRIBUTION TO HER

IN DISTRICT B, THE DONATION WILL BE -- WILL QUALIFY FOR PUBLIC CAMPAIGN

FINANCING -- FOR PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING PURPOSES --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. NOVAKHOV: MM-HMM.

MS. WALKER: -- IN FUTURE DISTRICT B. FROM FUTURE

DISTRICT B, TO FUTURE DISTRICT B. ALL RIGHT? NO?

MR. NOVAKHOV: OKAY, YEAH; I GOT IT. BUT NOT THE

EXISTING DISTRICT A, THAT SHE LIVES RIGHT NOW, RIGHT?

MS. WALKER: SHE'S -- SHE'S NOT RUNNING FOR --

MR. NOVAKHOV: RIGHT.

MS. WALKER: SHE'S NOT SEEKING OFFICE FOR PRESENT

DISTRICT A.

MR. NOVAKHOV: OKAY.

MS. WALKER: SHE'S SEEKING OFFICE FOR FUTURE

DISTRICT B.

MR. NOVAKHOV: UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THAT.

MR. NOVAKHOV: OF COURSE.

(PAUSE)

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE REASONS

MENTIONED BY MY COLLEAGUE. THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT ARE CERTAINLY

WELCOME TO VOTE YES.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ONE MINUTE, MR.

GOODELL. I (INAUDIBLE/MIC OFF) -- RELAX.

MR. GOODELL: OH, THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

WALKER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AND A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

NOW, MR. GOODELL. TIMELY.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. EVEN THOUGH WE NOW

HAVE THE SENATE VERSION, IT WAS THE SAME AS THE ASSEMBLY VERSION AND

REALLY NOT MUCH BETTER FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE. SO THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE REMAINS GENERALLY OPPOSED, BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT THE

SENATE VERSION CAN CERTAINLY VOTE YES HERE ON THE FLOOR OF THE

ASSEMBLY. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. SOLAGES.

MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE

MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE WHO

WISH TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE CAN COME IN THE CHAMBER AND DO SO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. PIROZZOLO, DO YOU WANT TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE?

MR. PIROZZOLO: YES, I DO, MR. SPEAKER. THANK

YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU'RE WELCOME

MR. PIROZZOLO: I WILL BE VOTING NO ON THIS BILL FOR

TWO REASONS: ONE, BECAUSE I JUST THINK IT'S JUST VERY EXPENSIVE AND

THERE'S NO PRICE TAG AND, TWO, BECAUSE IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES

OF MS. ZINERMAN'S BILL THAT WE UNANIMOUSLY PASSED YESTERDAY AS FAR AS

MAKING LANGUAGE UNDERSTANDABLE IN BILLS AND I THINK THAT EVERY BILL WE

WRITE SHOULD FOLLOW THAT GUIDELINE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PIROZZOLO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MS. LUNSFORD TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. LUNSFORD: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE

SIMPLY TO EXPLAIN THAT I ACTUALLY SHARE A LOT OF THE CONCERNS THAT MY

COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE AISLE SHARE AND IF I'D HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE

ON PUBLIC FINANCING INITIALLY, I WOULD HAVE VOTED NO. BUT GIVEN THAT

THE PROGRAM EXISTS AND THE WAY THE LAW'S CURRENTLY WRITTEN HAS SOME

FUNDAMENTAL AND SERIOUS PROBLEMS THAT ARE REMEDIED IN PART BY THIS

LEGISLATION, I AM AFFIRMATIVE TODAY. BUT I WANT TO SAY I AM AFFIRMATIVE

SIMPLY BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE THE OPTION TO REPEAL THE BILL ENTIRELY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. LUNSFORD IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. WALLACE TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. WALLACE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. IN 2020, I VOTED AGAINST

CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROGRAM BECAUSE ALTHOUGH I FULLY APPRECIATED THE

INTENT TO EXPAND OPPORTUNITIES FOR EVERYDAY FOLKS TO RUN FOR OFFICE,

ESPECIALLY THOSE WITHOUT DEEP POCKETS, I DON'T THINK THAT THE CAMPAIGN

FINANCING PROGRAM THAT WE CREATED ACCOMPLISHES THAT. THE PROGRAM

DOESN'T GET BIG MONEY IN POLITICS, IT JUST ADDS PUBLIC MONEY TO THE MIX

OF BIG DONATIONS. I WORRY THAT THE PROGRAM WILL BE RIFE WITH

CORRUPTION, AND WE WILL HAVE ABUSES LIKE WE'VE SEEN WITH THE NEW

YORK CITY PROGRAM. I THINK IT WILL CREATE A COTTAGE INDUSTRY THAT PUTS

PUBLIC MONEY INTO THE HANDS OF CAMPAIGN CONSULTANTS, AND MOST

IMPORTANTLY, I FEEL IT IS A WASTE OF OUR VERY LIMITED TAXPAYER RESOURCES.

OUR STATE HAS MANY, MANY NEEDS. EVERY BUDGET CYCLE

WE STRUGGLE TO FIND ENOUGH RESOURCES TO MEET THOSE NEEDS. OUR

COLLEAGUE MENTIONED SOME OF THEM, MONEY FOR AGING INFRASTRUCTURE,

MONEY FOR OUR NURSING HOMES, MORE MONEY FOR THOSE TO -- WHO CARE

FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES, MORE MONEY FOR CHILD CARE. AND THE

LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON. BUT DEAD LAST IN THIS LIST IS USING OUR

TAXPAYER MONEY TO PAY FOR OUR POLITICAL ADS AND CAMPAIGN MAILERS AND

I BELIEVE MY CONSTITUENTS WOULD AGREE. I AM A STRONG PROPONENT OF

GOOD GOVERNMENT AND I'VE BEEN THE SPONSOR OF MANY BILLS IN THIS

HOUSE TO INCREASE TRANSPARENCY AND HOLD GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABLE, BUT

I DO NOT THINK THAT THIS BILL IS GOOD GOVERNMENT, AND I DO NOT THINK THE

CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROGRAM, MORE IMPORTANTLY, IS GOOD GOVERNMENT.

GOOD GOVERNMENT TO ME MEANS SPENDING TAXPAYER RESOURCES

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

JUDICIOUSLY AND IN A WAY THAT HELPS OUR STATE RESIDENTS. I DO NOT

BELIEVE THIS BILL DOES THAT AND THAT'S WHY I VOTE NO. THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALLACE IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. RA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YOU KNOW, WE

SEEM TO HAVE A RECURRING PROBLEM IN THIS CHAMBER, AND AS WE TALKED

ABOUT YESTERDAY, WE TALKED ABOUT ELECTIONS A LOT, BUT WE SEEM TO COME

UP WITH THINGS, TALK ABOUT HOW GREAT THEY ARE, AND THEN BEFORE THEY

EVER EVEN GO INTO EFFECT, DECIDE HOW TERRIBLE THEY ARE AND HOW MUCH

THEY NEED TO BE CHANGED.

SO A COUPLE -- OVER TEN YEARS AGO, RIGHT, WE DID THE

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT FOR REDISTRICTING, AND THEN A COUPLE OF YEARS

AGO, ALL OF A SUDDEN, OH, THERE'S FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEMS WITH THE

INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION, WE NEED TO -- WE NEED TO

CHANGE IT. AND WHAT WERE WE TRYING TO DO? WE WERE TRYING TO STACK

THE DECK ON REDISTRICTING. DIDN'T WORK OUT SO WELL, DEPENDING ON YOUR

PERSPECTIVE. NOW HERE WE ARE, THIS PROGRAM WAS PUT INTO EFFECT A FEW

YEARS AGO AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, THERE'S ALL THESE FLAWS IN IT THAT NEED TO

BE FIXED BEFORE IT EVER ACTUALLY HAPPENS.

SO AS I SAID EARLIER, I AGREE WITH SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO

SAID I'D RATHER REPEAL THIS WHOLE THING, BUT THIS CLEARLY IS EVERYBODY

SAYING HEY, THIS IS GOING TO GO INTO EFFECT AND -- AND IT MIGHT NOT

BENEFIT US AS MUCH AS WE WANT, SO LET'S MAKE SURE IT BENEFITS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

INCUMBENTS MORE SO. LET'S MAKE SURE THAT PERSON WITH BUSINESS BEFORE

THE STATE -- ONE OF THE MEMOS TALKED ABOUT, I THINK A CEO LIVING IN A

SENATE DISTRICT COULD GIVE A SENATOR $10,000 AND THE STATE WILL KICK IN,

I THINK IT'S ANOTHER 2,800 BUCKS. IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE, IT DOESN'T

HELP GET BIG MONEY OUT OF POLITICS AND WE SHOULD BE CASTING OUR VOTES

IN THE NEGATIVE AND I VOTE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA IN THE

NEGATIVE.

(COUGH) EXCUSE ME.

MS. WALKER TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I REQUEST

AN OPPORTUNITY TO ABSTAIN IN ORDER TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I AM SENSING A

GENERAL CONSENSUS HERE WHEN IT COMES TO ME THERE'S A -- IF THERE COULD

BE A SLOGAN, IF IT DOESN'T APPEAL, WE MUST REPEAL BUT, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT

IS NOT THE CASE HERE. THE PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE STATE'S PUBLIC

CAMPAIGN FINANCE WILL STILL PROVIDE MATCHING FUNDS TO PEOPLE WHOSE

CAMPAIGNS ARE FUNDED PRIMARILY BY SMALL DONORS. AND THE LAW WILL

STILL PROVIDE THE TRANSPARENCY NECESSARY TO ENSURE PUBLIC CONFIDENCE IN

CAMPAIGNS AND ELECTIONS IN NEW YORK STATE. I KNOW PEOPLE HAVE

CONCERNS, PEOPLE HAVE RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE RATIONALE OF THE

INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF DONORS IN A DISTRICT AND THE TOTAL DONATIONS

AND AMOUNT REQUIRED TO QUALIFY, AND I BELIEVE THAT THIS CHANGE WILL

WEED OUT CANDIDATES WHO ARE NOT ACTUALLY SERIOUS ABOUT RUNNING FOR

OFFICE BUT INSTEAD, MORE SO SERIOUS ABOUT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF OUR VERY

PROGRESSIVE ELECTION LAWS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE HIT THE GROUND RUNNING AS WE

PREPARE FOR 2024, THE FIRST ELECTION UNDER THE STATE'S PUBLIC CAMPAIGN

FINANCING PROGRAM WHICH, OF COURSE, IS ONE OF THE MOST PROGRESSIVE

AND AGGRESSIVE IN AMERICA. WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT FURTHER

DELAY, AND CANDIDATES ARE ALREADY GEARED UP AND READY TO RUN FOR OFFICE

NEXT YEAR. THIS NEW MODIFICATION PRESERVES THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE

LAW, AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT THE BILL IN FRONT OF US ALSO BRINGS THE

STATE IN CLOSE ALIGNMENT WITH THE CITY PROGRAM, WHICH ALSO MATCHES

SOME CONTRIBUTIONS OVER $250.

MR. SPEAKER, I REQUEST TO WITHDRAW MY ABSTENTION AND

I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. WALKER IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MS. SIMON: YOU GOT ME.

SO I RISE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. THERE'S BEEN A LOT SAID

TODAY. I WOULD SAY THAT THERE WERE ASPECTS OF THIS PROGRAM THAT I DIDN'T

LIKE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I WOULD HAVE BEEN LESS INCUMBENT PROTECTIVE,

AND YOU CAN CHECK IT OUT IN TERMS OF WHAT I COMMUNICATED TO THE

COMMISSION WHEN THEY WERE LOOKING AT THIS ISSUE. BUT THE REALITY IS

THAT A NUMBER OF THE CHANGES THAT WE'VE MADE ACTUALLY ARE -- MAKE IT

MORE ALIGNED WITH THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BOARD PROGRAM IN NEW

YORK CITY. HAVING RUN UNDER THAT SYSTEM, I AM VERY, VERY FAMILIAR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WITH IT. AND SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE BECAUSE WE MADE

SOME VERY IMPORTANT CHANGES THAT ACTUALLY ARE GOOD FOR -- FOR

INCUMBENTS, BUT ALSO VERY GOOD FOR THOSE WHO WOULD BE CHALLENGING.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. SIMON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. TAGUE.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

MY VOTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PROCEED.

MR. TAGUE: MR. SPEAKER, I JUST -- I CAN'T BELIEVE

WE'RE HERE TODAY HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT AFTER A

$230 BILLION BUDGET, THE SAME CAST OF CHARACTERS THAT BROUGHT THE

ELECTION BILL LAST NIGHT OR THIS MORNING ARE BRINGING THIS BILL. AND LAST

NIGHT THEY SAID THEY WE'RE GOING TO SAVE THE TAXPAYERS MONEY. NOW

WE'RE USING THE TAXPAYERS' MONEY TO RUN CAMPAIGNS. I DON'T GET IT. I

JUST DON'T GET IT. WE ARE ASKING THE TAXPAYERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK

WHO ARE STRUGGLING TO FINANCE OUR POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS. ARE YOU

JOKING? UNBELIEVABLE. UNBELIEVABLE. AND THEN TO SAY LAST NIGHT

DURING THE OTHER ELECTION LAW DEBATE THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO SAVE THE

TAXPAYERS MONEY AFTER A $230 BILLION BUDGET, UNBELIEVABLE.

UNBELIEVABLE.

MR. SPEAKER, I VOTE NO AND ANYBODY WITH ANY

COMMON SENSE AND REALLY CARE ABOUT THE TAXPAYERS OF THE STATE OF NEW

YORK SHOULD DO THE SAME. THANK YOU.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. TAGUE IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: A FEW YEARS AGO WE WERE TOLD THAT

WE NEEDED TO IMPLEMENT TAXPAYER FUNDING OF CAMPAIGNS FOR A COUPLE

OF NOBLE GOALS. WE WERE TOLD THAT IF WE USED CAMPAIGN FINANCING AND

WE LIMITED IT TO SMALL DONATIONS, WE COULD ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO

MAKE SMALL DONATIONS. AND IN THE PROCESS, WE COULD REMOVE THE

CORRUPTING INFLUENCE OF BIG MONEY. WE WERE ALSO TOLD THAT WE NEEDED

CAMPAIGN FINANCING TO HELP LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YEAH, I DO BELIEVE

WE HAVE A LITTLE NOISE IN THE BACKGROUND.

MR. GOODELL: WE WERE TOLD TO HELP LEVEL THE

PLAYING FIELD THAT CHALLENGERS, WHO HAVE MORE DIFFICULTY RAISING

MONEY, WOULD GET ASSISTANCE FROM THE STATE TAXPAYERS WHETHER OR NOT

THE STATE TAXPAYERS SUPPORT THEM, AND THAT WOULD LEVEL THE PLAYING

FIELD. SO WHAT'S THIS BILL DO? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT ELIMINATES ANY

INCENTIVE FOR SMALL CONTRIBUTIONS, BECAUSE RATHER JUST MATCH SMALL

CONTRIBUTIONS, THIS SAYS YOU CAN GET THE LARGEST CONTRIBUTION ALLOWED BY

LAW AND THE FIRST 250 WILL BE MATCHED; UNDER THE OLD LAW, YOU COULD

ONLY GET A CONTRIBUTION OF 250 AND HAVE IT MATCHED.

THE SECOND THING THIS DID IS INSTEAD OF LEVELING THE

PLAYING FIELD, IT BLEW UP THE CHANCES OF AN INCUMBENT TO BE SUCCESSFUL

BECAUSE IT DRAMATICALLY INCREASED THE NUMBER OF CONTRIBUTORS YOU HAD

TO HAVE IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR FUNDING. NOW, AS AN INCUMBENT, I HAVE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

A WELL-ESTABLISHED DONOR BASE. I ALREADY HAD THE DATABASE, I'VE ALWAYS

MATCHED OR EXCEEDED THESE LEVELS. NONE OF MY CHALLENGERS WILL EVER

HAVE EVER COME CLOSE TO THESE NEW HIGHER LEVELS. SO WHAT'S THAT

MEAN? THAT MEANS WITH THIS PROGRAM, INCUMBENTS WILL HAVE ALMOST

UNLIMITED FUNDING AND THEIR CHALLENGERS WILL BE FROZEN OUT. I ALMOST

RAISED A POINT OF ORDER, SIR, BEFORE YOU CALLED ME OUT OF ORDER FOR

RUNNING OUT OF TIME, BECAUSE OUR RULES NORMALLY REQUIRE A BILL TO HAVE

AN ACCURATE TITLE, AND THIS ONE SHOULD BE CALLED THE INCUMBENT

REELECTION GUARANTEE ACT. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: YOU'RE OUT OF ORDER.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES,

WE'RE MOVING RIGHT ALONG. WE'RE NOW GOING TO GO TO OUR MAIN

CALENDAR, PAGE 21 AND BEGIN WITH RULES REPORT NO. 748 BY MR.

MAGNARELLI ON CONSENT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ABSOLUTELY. PAGE 21,

RULES REPORT NO. 748, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00250-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 748, MAGNARELLI, ZEBROWSKI, STIRPE, COOK, WOERNER, FAHY,

SANTABARBARA, PEOPLES-STOKES, COLTON, GUNTHER, OTIS, BRONSON,

HUNTER, BUTTENSCHON, MCMAHON, CRUZ, SAYEGH, BURDICK, THIELE,

DARLING, JACKSON, SIMON, DAVILA, MEEKS, STECK, LUPARDO, CLARK,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

EACHUS, MCDONALD, WEPRIN, LUNSFORD, KELLES, BRAUNSTEIN. AN ACT TO

AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO PAYMENTS TO PREHOSPITAL

EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES PROVIDERS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MAGNARELLI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST,

2025.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ARE THERE ANY

OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02608, RULES REPORT

NO. 749, HYNDMAN, AUBRY. AN ACT TO DIRECT THE CITY OF NEW YORK TO

CONDUCT AN ANALYSIS OF STORMWATER AND GROUNDWATER ISSUES IN

SOUTHEAST QUEENS.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MS. HYNDMAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. HYNDMAN TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. HYNDMAN: YES, THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SO WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT STUDIES A

PROBLEM THAT NEW YORK CITY CREATED WHEN IT TURNED OFF THE WATER

PUMPS FOR THE JAMAICA WATER SUPPLY, AND NOW IN SOUTHEAST QUEENS WE

HAVE HOMES THAT ARE -- WHEN THE GROUNDWATER RISES, THOSE HOMES ARE

FLOODING AND HAVE TO KEEP A PUMP GOING 24 HOURS A DAY. WE HAVE A

COLLEGE, YORK COLLEGE, PART OF THE CUNY SYSTEM, THAT WHEN YOU GO

INTO THEIR BASEMENT THEY CAN'T USE IT BECAUSE IT IS FILLED WITH WATER. WE

HAVE A SENIOR CITIZEN HOUSING DEVELOPMENT THAT IS FLOODED BECAUSE OF

THIS GROUNDWATER. I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT THE LLOYD (INAUDIBLE)

THE CLAY AQUIFER AND ALL OF THE REASONS WHY SOUTHEAST QUEENS, THE

FLOODING IS A CONTINUOUS PROBLEM. SO WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT STUDIES

THE ISSUE AND HOPEFULLY NEW YORK CITY WILL USE THIS AS A CATALYST TO

MAKE SURE THEY HELP US FIX THE ISSUE IN SOUTHEAST QUEENS WITH THIS

FLOODING THAT HAS REALLY HAMPERED HOMES, BUILDINGS, OUR -- OUR

UNIVERSITY AND BUSINESSES FROM BEING PRODUCTIVE BECAUSE OF THIS

GROUNDWATER FLOODING ISSUE. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'LL BE VOTING IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MS. HYNDMAN IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL HAS PASSED.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02893-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 750, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, ANDERSON, CUNNINGHAM, DE LOS

SANTOS, ZINERMAN, SEAWRIGHT, SHIMSKY, BURDICK, CLARK, ARDILA,

AUBRY, LAVINE, EPSTEIN, HEVESI, SILLITTI, SIMON, CARROLL, TAPIA, THIELE,

DARLING, CHANDLER-WATERMAN, FORREST, CRUZ, JEAN-PIERRE, L. ROSENTHAL,

LUNSFORD, GALLAGHER, DINOWITZ, SIMONE, MITAYNES, ZACCARO, RAGA. AN

ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO THE PROVISION OF

AND PAYMENT FOR VIOLENCE PREVENTION PROGRAMS.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MS. GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

BILL IS ADVANCED AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03327-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 751, WEPRIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX

LAW, IN RELATION TO THE DETERMINATION OF ADJUSTED BASE PROPORTIONS IN

SPECIAL ASSESSING UNITS WHICH ARE CITIES.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MR. WEPRIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE

MAJORITY OF OUR COMMUNITIES ACROSS NEW YORK STATE ASSESS ALL THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

PROPERTIES EQUALLY, AND EVERYONE PAYS THE SAME TAX RATE BASED ON THE

PROPERTY VALUE. AND THAT'S FAIR BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A HIGHER PROPERTY

VALUE, YOU'D PAY A HIGHER AMOUNT OF TAXES; IF YOU HAVE A LESSER VALUE

OF PROPERTY, YOU PAY LESS, BUT YOU ALL PAY THE SAME RATE. BUT WHENEVER

YOU GO INTO ADJUSTED BASED PROPORTIONS, WHAT THEY REALLY SAY IS SOME

PEOPLE WILL HAVE THEIR ASSESSMENT ARTIFICIALLY LOWER SO THAT OTHERS CAN

PAY MORE THAN THEIR FAIR SHARE. I SUPPORT A SYSTEM WHERE EVERYONE HAS

THE SAME TAX RATE, WHERE EVERYONE IS TREATED THE SAME AND ACCORDINGLY,

I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS PROGRAM. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. GOODELL IN

THE NEGATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL HAS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03463-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 752, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN

RELATION TO ADDING NORTH CHUCTANUNDA CREEK TO THE DEFINITION OF INLAND

WATERWAYS.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03484-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 753, GALLAGHER, MITAYNES, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, L. ROSENTHAL,

EPSTEIN, KIM, THIELE, MAMDANI, SIMON, DAVILA, FORREST, CARROLL,

KELLES, SHRESTHA, GLICK, MAGNARELLI, ROZIC, JACOBSON, SHIMSKY,

SILLITTI, BURGOS, GIBBS, BENEDETTO, SANTABARBARA, SIMONE, STECK,

BRABENEC, BORES, SLATER, REYES, LEVENBERG, SEAWRIGHT, RAGA. AN ACT

TO AMEND THE LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY LAW AND THE EXECUTIVE LAW,

IN RELATION TO THE DISCLOSURE OF BENEFICIAL OWNERS OF LIMITED LIABILITY

COMPANIES.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MS. GALLAGHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03827, RULES REPORT

NO. 754, L. ROSENTHAL, MAMDANI, SHRESTHA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

PROPERTY ACTIONS AND PROCEEDINGS LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING

NAMING DEPENDENT CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 18 IN PETITIONS TO RECOVER

POSSESSION OF REAL PROPERTY AND EVICTION WARRANTS AND SEALING ANY

RECORDS PERTAINING TO SUCH CHILDREN.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MS. ROSENTHAL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04167, RULES REPORT

NO. 755, HUNTER, ZINERMAN, DAVILA, JACKSON, STIRPE. AN ACT TO AMEND

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO PAYMENT AND RETAINAGE IN

CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MS. HUNTER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04421, RULES REPORT

NO. 756, REYES, KELLES, EPSTEIN, CRUZ, RAGA, DICKENS, LUPARDO,

ZEBROWSKI, ZACCARO, HUNTER, L. ROSENTHAL, SEPTIMO. AN ACT TO AMEND

THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO EXCLUDING CERTAIN STUDENT LOAN DISCHARGE OR

FORGIVENESS AMOUNTS FROM STATE INCOME TAX.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MS. REYES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04911, RULES REPORT

NO. 757, KELLES, SANTABARBARA, STIRPE, JACOBSON, RAGA. AN ACT TO

AMEND THE AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING

THE AGRIVOLTAICS RESEARCH PROGRAM.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. KELLES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04955-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 758, THIELE, L. ROSENTHAL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO LEASE-HOLD RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE BILL IS LAID

ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05040, RULES REPORT

NO. 759, CLARK, GLICK, STIRPE, DICKENS, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, JACKSON,

BURDICK, FAHY, LUNSFORD, MAGNARELLI, DAVILA, HYNDMAN, SILLITTI, RAGA,

WEPRIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE JUDICIARY LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING

THE "HOPE CARD ACT".

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MS. CLARK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. CLARK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I RISE TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE ON THIS WHAT I FEEL IS SLIGHTLY A HISTORIC PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. WE WILL BE THE SIXTH STATE TO ADOPT HOPE CARDS HERE FOR

THOSE WHO ARE SURVIVORS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. THIS ORIGINALLY CAME

OUT OF MONTANA AND HAS TO DO WITH THOSE WHO HAVE FILED FOR ORDERS OF

PROTECTION AND BEEN GRANTED THEM. IT GIVES THEM A WALLET-SIZED

LAMINATED CARD TO CARRY WITH THEM GIVING THEM ALL THE INFORMATION,

ALLOWS IT -- IT EMPOWERS SURVIVING VICTIMS TO SHARE THOSE CARDS WITH

EMPLOYERS, WITH SCHOOL DISTRICTS, WITH NEIGHBORS, ANYONE THEY FEEL

COMFORTABLE KNOWING WHAT TO DO IF SAID PERSON IS IN THEIR -- IS

VIOLATING IT AND WHAT TO DO, WHO TO CALL AND HOW TO HANDLE IT. IT REALLY,

FOR THE FIRST TIME EMPOWERS SURVIVORS IN A WAY THAT THE LONG FORMS OF

ORDERS OF PROTECTIONS NEVER DID, PUTS THE POWER IN THEIR HANDS TO DECIDE

WHO SHOULD KNOW, WHO SHOULDN'T KNOW, AND OTHER TOOLS FOR HOW TO

PROTECT THEMSELVES BETTER. IT ALSO GIVES LAW ENFORCEMENT MUCH MORE

ACCESS TO BEING PART OF THAT SOLUTION WITH VICTIMS AND SURVIVORS AND

ENFORCING THEM.

SO I'M EXCITED THAT WE'RE THE SIXTH STATE TO JOIN THEM.

I KNOW IT ALREADY PASSED ON THE OTHER SIDE, SO I LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING

THE GOVERNOR SIGN THIS AND REALLY DOING A LOT TO EMPOWER OUR VICTIMS

AND SURVIVORS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. THANK YOU. I VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MS. CLARK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JUST RISE TO

THANK THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD. YOU KNOW, AS YOU ALL

KNOW, I PRACTICE IN FAMILY COURT QUITE A BIT AND I'VE SEEN THESE ORDERS

OF PROTECTION THAT ARE LIKE PRACTICALLY DOG-EARED, THAT THEY'RE JUST FOLDED

AND TUCKED INTO PURSES AND TUCKED INTO POCKETS AND CARRIED AROUND FOR

SUCH A LONG TIME AND THEY -- THEY FALL APART. AND -- BUT THE INDIVIDUAL

WHO NEEDS THE PROTECTION REALLY WANTS TO HAVE THAT ON HER OR HIM AT ALL

TIMES BECAUSE OF JUST THE IMPORTANCE OF THE DOCUMENT. SO I THINK IT'S A

REALLY GREAT IDEA AND I'M VERY HAPPY TO SUPPORT IT. I'M IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE, THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MS. WALSH IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05048-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 760, LAVINE, SHIMSKY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE

LAW, THE JUDICIARY LAW AND THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO ADDRESS

CONFIDENTIALITY TO FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL COURT OFFICIALS AND THEIR

IMMEDIATE FAMILIES.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05128-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 761, GRAY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN RELATION

TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE "FIREFIGHTER

PEYTON L. S. MORSE MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MR. GRAY, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GRAY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GRAY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I'D LIKE TO

FIRST THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR THE SUPPORT OF THIS BILL. PEYTON MORSE

WAS A YOUNG HERO, A VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER WHO TRAGICALLY LOST HIS LIFE IN

THE LINE OF DUTY. HE WAS THE SON OF DAVID AND STACY MORSE. HE GREW

UP IN LA FARGEVILLE, NEW YORK. HE GRADUATED FROM LA FARGEVILLE

CENTRAL SCHOOL IN 2017. THERE HE WAS PRESIDENT OF THE STUDENT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

COUNCIL, PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL HONOR SOCIETY, SENIOR VICE -- CLASS

VICE PRESIDENT. PEYTON ALSO EXCELLED OUTSIDE THE CLASSROOM PLAYING

VARSITY SPORTS. HE PLAYED SOCCER, BASKETBALL, GOLF AND WAS THE TEAM

CAPTAIN OF THE BASEBALL TEAM. HE WAS AN ALTA SERVER AT ST. JOHN'S AND

ST. MARY'S CATHOLIC CHURCH, AND A MEMBER OF THE KNIGHTS OF

COLUMBUS.

SEEKING TO SERVE HIS COMMUNITY, PEYTON ON HIS 18TH

BIRTHDAY JOINED THE LA FARGEVILLE VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT WHERE HIS

LOVE OF FIRE SERVICE BEGAN. AFTER GRADUATING, PEYTON ENROLLED IN LAW

SCHOOL -- AT THE LAW PROGRAM AT SIENA COLLEGE. THERE HE CONTINUED TO

BE INVOLVED IN INTRAMURAL AND CLUB SPORTS, AND HE ALSO VOLUNTEERED FOR

THE SHAKER ROAD VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT, WHICH WAS A

COMBINATION OF CAREER AND VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION. THE EXPOSURE TO

FIRE SERVICE AS A CAREER WAS A PERFECT FIT FOR PEYTON AS IT COMBINED HIS

LOVE FOR THE COMMUNITY, HIS MANUAL LABOR AND DESIRE TO HELP OTHERS.

PEYTON WAS ENGAGED TO THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE, CELESTE ON SEPTEMBER 27TH

OF 2020, AND IN FEBRUARY OF 2021, PEYTON BEGAN HIS DREAM JOB

BECOMING A VOLUNTEER -- OR BECOMING A CAREER FIRE DEPARTMENT MEMBER

OF THE CITY OF WATERTOWN FIRE DEPARTMENT. HE COMPLETED -- HE WAS

TRAINING AND IN HIS EVALUATION WHEN HE SUFFERED A TRAGIC ACCIDENT. THE

ACCIDENT TO THIS DAY REMAINS LARGELY UNEXPLAINED. HE PASSED AWAY

MARCH 12TH, 2021. THE DEDICATION SYMBOLIZES THIS REMARKABLE YOUNG

MAN WHO LOST HIS LIFE WAY TOO SOON. THE HIGHWAY NAMED AFTER PEYTON

WILL INSPIRE ALL THAT TRAVEL TO EMULATE PEYTON'S SELFLESS DEDICATION TO

SERVICE AND A LASTING MARK ON THE LA FARGEVILLE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THE

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WATERTOWN COMMUNITY AND JEFFERSON COUNTY AS A WHOLE. MR.

SPEAKER, AND ALL THE COLLEAGUES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SUPPORT

OF THIS.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. GRAY IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. JENSEN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

I AM PROUD TO STAND IN SUPPORT OF THIS LEGISLATION AND THANK

ASSEMBLYMEMBER GRAY FOR BRINGING IT TO THIS BODY. THIS PAST

WEEKEND THE NATIONAL FALLEN FIREFIGHTERS FOUNDATION HELD THEIR

ROCHESTER AREA GOLF TOURNAMENT JUST OUTSIDE MY DISTRICT IN MONROE

COUNTY AND I HAD SOME TIME TO SPEND WITH PEYTON'S FAMILY. THE LOSS

THAT THEY GO THROUGH EVERY DAY WILL NEVER BE FILLED, THE HOLE THAT'S LEFT

IN THEIR HEART, AND IT IS MY HOPE THAT THIS DEDICATION AND MEMORIAL TO

FIREFIGHTER MORSE WILL NOT JUST SERVE AS COMFORT TO HIS FAMILY, HIS

BROTHERS AND SISTER FIREFIGHTERS IN WATERTOWN AND LA FARGEVILLE, BUT

ALSO WILL HELP SIGNIFY THAT OUR FALLEN HEROS, WHETHER THEY BE LAW

ENFORCEMENT, MILITARY, FIREFIGHTER, EMS, BUT ANYBODY WHO GAVE THEIR

LIFE IN SERVICE TO ANOTHER SHOULD BE TREATED WITH THE DIGNITY AND RESPECT

THAT THEIR SERVICE AND THEIR LOSS OF LIFE IN THAT SERVICE IS SOMETHING THAT

SHOULD BE TRULY HONORED BY THE STATE. AND IT IS MY HOPE THAT PEYTON'S

MEMORY AND FIREFIGHTER MORSE'S MEMORY IS TREATED WITH RESPECT BY THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. JENSEN IN THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05294, RULES REPORT

NO. 762, ANDERSON, CUNNINGHAM, COOK, WALKER, REYES, FORREST,

BICHOTTE HERMELYN, KIM, DAVILA, CHANDLER-WATERMAN, DICKENS,

ALVAREZ, TAPIA, ARDILA, JACKSON, TAYLOR, WEPRIN, GIBBS, EPSTEIN,

SOLAGES, BURGOS, RAGA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN

RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A CAPTIVE INSURANCE PROGRAM FOR COMMUTER

VANS; AND TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING

THE COMMUTER VAN TRUST FUND.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MR. ANDERSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. ANDERSON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. ANDERSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. THANK YOU, SIR. SO THIS BILL CREATES A CAPTIVE

INSURANCE PROGRAM FOR COMMUTER VANS ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK,

AND IT'S CRITICAL THAT WE CREATE THIS PROGRAM BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE

SURE THAT THE INEQUITIES THAT EXIST IN THE INSURANCE POOLS AND INSURANCE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MARKET PRESENTLY CAN BE RECTIFIED. AND SO THIS BILL WILL BEGIN THAT

PROCESS OF ENSURING THAT THERE'S EQUITY IN THE INSURANCE POOL SO THAT

THOSE WHO ARE SERVICED BY COMMUTER VANS THAT LIVE IN TRANSIT DESERTS ALL

ACROSS THIS CITY AND ALL ACROSS THIS STATE CAN BE MADE WHOLE. I'M GLAD

AND GRATEFUL TO HAVE HAD THE SUPPORT OF THE COMMUTER VANS ALLIANCE,

THE SUPPORT OF MY COLLEAGUES FROM ALL ACROSS SOUTHEAST QUEENS, AND OF

COURSE THE SUPPORT OF OUR SPEAKER TO ENSURE THAT THIS BILL HAD ITS PROPER

VOTE AND CAN BE HEARD ON.

SO MR. SPEAKER, I'M GRATEFUL OF COURSE TO MR. LEROY

MORRISON WHO HAS BEEN A STAUNCH ADVOCATE TO ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES IN

THIS CHAMBER TO SUPPORT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND I AM PROUD TO

VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. ANDERSON IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. JUST A

LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON THIS. A FEW YEARS AGO, THERE WAS AN

ACCIDENT INVOLVING ONE OF THESE COMMUTER VANS AND IT HAD THE

MINIMUM AMOUNT OF INSURANCE THAT WAS AUTHORIZED AT THAT TIME, AND IT

WAS NOT ENOUGH INSURANCE. AND SO THERE WAS QUITE A HUE AND OUTCRY

AND SO THE LEGISLATURE STEPPED IN, AND AS WE OFTEN DO, WE ARBITRARILY

INCREASED THE AMOUNT OF INSURANCE SUBSTANTIALLY. AND WHEN THAT

OCCURRED AT THAT TIME, SOME OF US ON THE FLOOR REMINDED OUR COLLEAGUES

THAT THE WAY THE PRIVATE SECTOR MARKET WORKS IS WHEN YOU INCREASE THE

COST OF SOMETHING IT'S GOING TO BE PASSED ON TO THE CONSUMER. AND

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SURE ENOUGH, ABOUT A YEAR LATER, THE COMMUTER VANS, WHICH WERE OFTEN

BACK THEN CALLED DOLLAR VANS I THINK, WERE EITHER GOING OUT OF BUSINESS

OR, AS PREDICTED, RAISING THEIR PRICES.

WELL, THAT CAUSED ANOTHER HUE AND CRY. AND SO IN

ORDER TO COVER THE COST OF THE INSURANCE THAT THIS LEGISLATURE MANDATED

ON THEM, AND TO HIDE THE COST OF THAT LEGISLATIVE MANDATE, WE CREATED

THIS CAPTIVE INSURANCE PROGRAM. BUT OF COURSE, THE CAPTIVE INSURANCE

PROGRAM DOESN'T CHARGE ENOUGH PREMIUMS TO COVER THE COST.

OTHERWISE, THEY WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT PRODUCT IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR

FOR A PRICE THEY COULD AFFORD. AND SO, IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET WE

INCLUDED $11 MILLION, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES. IT RECOGNIZES THAT.

SO JUST FOR THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED, WE ARE NOW PAYING 11 MILLION IN

TAXPAYER FUNDING TO COVER THE INSURANCE COST OF A PRIVATELY-OPERATED

BUSINESS THAT'S OPERATING IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK AND UNDOUBTEDLY

PROVIDING A VALUABLE SERVICE FOR A VERY NICE PRICE BECAUSE THE

TAXPAYERS ACROSS NEW YORK STATE ARE NOW SUBSIDIZING THAT PRIVATE

BUSINESSES' INSURANCE COST. FOR THAT REASON, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING IT.

THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: MR. GOODELL IN

THE NEGATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05315-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 763, BEEPHAN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE

"CORPORAL DERICK FRANKLIN BRINCKERHOFF MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: ON A MOTION BY

MR. BEEPHAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER ZACCARO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05542-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 764, THIELE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL

CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO A LONG ISLAND DEER MANAGEMENT PILOT

PROGRAM; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON

EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

THIELE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE -- THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE. READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05549-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 765, THIELE, NORRIS, BARRETT, WOERNER, J.A. GIGLIO, RIVERA,

KELLES, WALLACE, SMITH, GANDOLFO, BRABENEC, HUNTER, STECK,

SANTABARBARA, MEEKS, L. ROSENTHAL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

THIELE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY. NO. A05791-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 766, CHANDLER-WATERMAN, TAYLOR, ZEBROWSKI, EACHUS,

SHIMSKY, BURDICK, SIMON, TAPIA, CLARK, CUNNINGHAM, FAHY, GLICK,

GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, BORES, VANEL, MEEKS, HEVESI, ARDILA, LAVINE, DE LOS

SANTOS, EPSTEIN, GIBBS, LUCAS, SIMONE, BUTTENSCHON, PAULIN, SAYEGH,

BRONSON, LEVENBERG, MAMDANI, SOLAGES, PRETLOW, ANDERSON, BICHOTTE

HERMELYN, RA, CRUZ, TANNOUSIS, WALKER, RAGA, REYES, COOK, WEPRIN,

SEAWRIGHT, CARROLL, L. ROSENTHAL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW,

IN RELATION TO DEFINING THE TERM "MASS SHOOTING" FOR PURPOSES OF

EMERGENCY RESPONSE MEASURES AND ACCESS TO EMERGENCY FUNDING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

CHANDLER-WATERMAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

BILL IS ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FOR OVER A DECADE AS YOU'VE HEARD ME

SAY BEFORE, I'VE FOUGHT TIRELESSLY ALONGSIDE MY COMMUNITY TO REDUCE

GUN VIOLENCE BY PROVIDING WRAPAROUND SERVICES INCLUDING MENTAL

HEALTH RESOURCES, ACADEMIC PROGRAMS, WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT,

HOUSING SUPPORT AND SO MUCH MORE. AND YOU KNOW I HAVE TO

SHOUT-OUT MY ASSEMBLY DISTRICT 58 PUBLIC SAFETY TASK FORCE

COMPRISED OF THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS WITH LIVED EXPERIENCE, FAMILIES

IMPACTED BY GUN VIOLENCE, ANTI-VIOLENCE GROUPS LIKE BROWNSVILLE

THINK TANK MATTERS, DEVELOPMENT RIGHTEOUS UNITED MOVEMENT, 67

PRECINCT CLERGY COUNCIL, THE GOD SQUAD AND MOTHERS FOR SAFE CITY,

KINGS AGAINST VIOLENCE INITIATIVE, EAST FLATBUSH VILLAGE, INC. THIS

TASK FORCE STANDS ON THE PILLAR OF PREVENTION, INTERVENTION, RESTORATION

AND LEGISLATION. I AM PROUD THAT THIS VERY SAME GROUP WORKED

ALONGSIDE ME AND MY TEAM TO CREATE THIS BILL. UNFORTUNATELY ON

MARCH 12TH IN THE EAST FLATBUSH AREA OF MY DISTRICT, AROUND THE CORNER

FROM MY HOUSE THERE WAS A MASS SHOOTING WHERE 39-YEAR-OLD

EMMANUEL SORAY, A FATHER OF FIVE, AND THREE OTHER WERE INJURED, AND OF

COURSE IT WAS NOT LABELED A MASS SHOOTING. WE ARE TIRED OF DOING PRESS

CONFERENCES AND (INAUDIBLE) JUST OFFERING PRAYERS AND COMFORT. WE ARE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TIRED OF BEING OVERLOOKED AND UNDERRESOURCED. WE ARE TIRED OF

TAKE-DOWNS IN OUR COMMUNITY BUT NOT BEING LIFTED UP. ACCORDING TO

THE NATIONAL RECOGNIZED GUN VIOLENCE ARCHIVE THERE HAS BEEN 280 MASS

SHOOTINGS IN UNITED STATES AS OF THIS MORNING. WE ALL KNOW THAT THE

NUMBERS LIKE THIS WILL LIKELY TO RISE BY THE END OF TODAY. PEOPLE

IMPACTED BY MASS SHOOTINGS FEEL THE EFFECT LONG AFTER THE REPORTERS AND

THE CAMERAS LEAVE, AND OUR SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS FADE. THE VICTIMS IN OUR

COMMUNITIES NEED MENTAL HEALTH AND TRAUMA-INFORMED CARE. MASS

SHOOTINGS HAPPEN A LOT IN DISTRICTS LIKE MINE, AND MANY BLACK AND

BROWN AND DEPRIVED OF RESOURCES. HOWEVER, THESE INCIDENTS ARE NEVER

CALLED A MASS SHOOTING, AND RESOURCES ARE RARELY PROVIDED. NO MATTER

YOUR RACE, RELIGION, POLITICAL AFFILIATION, FOUR OR MORE BEING SHOT IS A

MASS SHOOTING. MASS SHOOTINGS ARE DEVASTATING AND WE NEED MASSIVE

RESOURCES. THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUES, THANK YOU TO SENATOR ZELLNOR

MYRIE WHO DID THE SAME AS AND PASSED IT IN THE SENATE. THANK YOU FOR

MY TEAM AND THE TEAM HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY AND ALL MY COLLEAGUES. I

VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS.

CHANDLER-WATERMAN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06144-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 767, PRETLOW, LUPARDO, BUTTENSCHON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

RACING, PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING AND BREEDING LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TAX ON GAMING REVENUES IN CERTAIN REGIONS; TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN

RELATION TO THE ADDITIONAL VENDOR FEE FOR A CERTAIN TRACK LOCATED WITHIN

ONEIDA COUNTY; AND TO AMEND PART EE OF CHAPTER 59 OF THE LAWS OF

2019, AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO COMMISSIONS PAID TO THE

OPERATOR OF A VIDEO LOTTERY FACILITY, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS

THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. MILLER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR

ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FIRST, I'D LIKE TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

CARRYING THIS IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION. ONE OF THE KEY PROVISIONS

OF THIS BILL IS TO -- IS THE ADJUSTMENT OF TAX RATES ON GAMING REVENUES

RELATIVE TO EMPLOYMENT NUMBERS. THIS WILL PROVIDE MUCH NEEDED

RELIEF TO RACINOS SUCH AS VERNON DOWNS. VERNON DOWNS IS LOCATED IN

MY DISTRICT. IT IS ONE OF MANY BUSINESSES THAT CONTINUES TO STRUGGLE

WITH FINDING EMPLOYEES IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE PANDEMIC. THIS

LEGISLATION WILL CREATE FAIRNESS AMONG CASINO INDUSTRY IN THE STATE AND

WILL SAVE 250 UNION AND 40 NON-UNION JOBS AT VERNON DOWNS TO

PREVENT ITS CLOSURE. THIS IS THE 70TH SEASON OF VERNON DOWNS HARNESS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TRACK RACING, WHICH HAS BEEN A STAPLE IN THE COMMUNITY FOR MULTIPLE

GENERATIONS AND HAS CONTRIBUTED ALMOST $2 MILLION TO LOCAL EDUCATION

THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF ITS OPERATION. ALONG WITH CONTRIBUTING TO

WELL OVER 100 LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS, THE LOCAL ECONOMIC IMPACT FROM THE

RACINO, HOTEL, HARNESS RACING IN ACCELER - YEAH, IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY -

ACCELERATING AGRICULTURAL BUSINESSES THAT ARE SUBSTANTIAL TO THE LOCAL

ECONOMY. I BELIEVE THIS BILL WILL PROMOTE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN

CASINOS ACROSS NEW YORK STATE INCLUDING BOTH VERNON AND TIOGA

DOWNS, AS WELL AS OTHERS, WHILE ALSO ENSURING RESPONSIBLE

MANAGEMENT OF GAMING REVENUES. THIS LEGISLATION ALIGNS WITH MY

COMMITMENT TO REPRESENTING THE BEST INTEREST OF MY DISTRICT AND

CONTRIBUTING TO THE OVERALL WELLBEING OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK. THANK

YOU FOR ALLOWING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY POSITION ON THIS BILL

AND I AM PROUD TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. BUTTENSCHON.

MS. BUTTENSCHON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I

WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR ALL THE SUPPORT OVER THE LAST COUPLE

MONTHS. THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE WITHIN THE AREA THAT I REPRESENT

AS THESE INDIVIDUALS, CLOSE TO 150 FAMILIES, HAVE SPENT THE LAST FEW

MONTHS CONCERNED ABOUT THE FORWARD-THINKING THAT WE WILL SEE WITHIN

THIS GREAT PLACE THAT THEY WORKED FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

SO AGAIN, THE HARD WORK DOES NOT GO UNNOTICED. I

APPRECIATE THE ABILITY TO WORK WITH YOU TO ENSURE THAT VERNON DOWNS

REMAINS THE VIABLE, WONDERFUL PLACE, AS WELL AS THE COMMUNITY EFFORTS

AND ALL THE SMALL BUSINESSES THAT WILL BE SUPPORTED. THANK YOU.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06203-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 768, MCDONOUGH. AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE FRIENDSHIP

ENGINE AND HOSE COMPANY TO FILE AN APPLICATION FOR EXEMPTION FROM

REAL PROPERTY TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06723-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 769, BARRETT. AN ACT TO ALLOW BRIAN LAURANGE, JR. TO BE

ELIGIBLE TO TAKE THE CIVIL SERVICE EXAM FOR THE POSITION OF DEPUTY

SHERIFF FOR THE COLUMBIA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

BARRETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06727-D, RULES

REPORT NO. 770, BUTTENSCHON. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 639 OF THE

LAWS OF 1970 INCORPORATING THE ORISKANY VOLUNTEER EXEMPT FIREMEN'S

ASSOCIATION OF ORISKANY, COUNTY OF ONEIDA, AND PROVIDING FOR ITS

POWERS AND DUTIES, IN RELATION TO THE NAME AND PURPOSES OF SUCH

ASSOCIATION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

BUTTENSCHON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06783, RULES REPORT

NO. 771, SIMPSON. AN ACT TO INCORPORATE THE SALEM VOLUNTEER FIRE

281

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

DEPARTMENT BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION, AND PROVIDING FOR ITS POWERS AND

DUTIES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

SIMPSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06843-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 772, CLARK, BRONSON, MEEKS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

EMERGENCY TENANT PROTECTION ACT OF 1974, IN RELATION TO STUDIES TO

DETERMINE VACANCY RATES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

CLARK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07049, RULES REPORT

NO. 773, MCDONALD, SEPTIMO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE LOCAL FINANCE

LAW, IN RELATION TO THE CONTRACTING OF INDEBTEDNESS BY CITY SCHOOL

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

DISTRICTS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MCDONALD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07276, RULES REPORT

NO. 774, MORINELLO. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 430 OF THE LAWS OF

1963 RELATING TO INCORPORATION OF THE GRAND ISLAND VOLUNTEER

FIREMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION AND PROVIDING FOR ITS POWERS AND

DUTIES, IN RELATION TO ITS PURPOSE AND THE USE OF FOREIGN FIRE INSURANCE

PREMIUM TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MORINELLO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07305, RULES REPORT

NO. 777 [SIC], CUNNINGHAM. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE

CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO THE HOURS DURING WHICH LIQUOR AND/OR WINE

STORES MAY BE OPEN ON SUNDAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

CUNNINGHAM, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07403-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 776, MCMAHON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES

LAW, IN RELATION TO FACILITATING THE PURCHASE BY THE STATE OF NEW YORK

MORTGAGE AGENCY OF MORTGAGES ON MANUFACTURED HOMES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

BARRETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE -- OH, I'M SORRY, MS. -- MS. MCMAHON.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ON A MOTION BY MS. MCMAHON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.

THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07422, RULES REPORT

NO. 777, BARRETT, MCDONALD, WALLACE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE

LAW, IN RELATION TO MANUFACTURED HOMES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

BARRETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07458-C, RULES

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

REPORT NO. 778, BRABENEC. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE

ASSESSOR OF THE TOWN OF RAMAPO, COUNTY OF ROCKLAND, TO ACCEPT AN

APPLICATION FOR A REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION FROM SISTER SERVANTS OF

MARY IMMACULATE, INC.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BRABENEC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07511, RULES REPORT

NO. 779, BURDICK, BRAUNSTEIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH

LAW, IN RELATION TO EXPANDING THE RESIDENTIAL HEALTH CARE FOR CHILDREN

WITH MEDICAL FRAGILITY IN TRANSITION TO YOUNG ADULTS AND ADULTS

WITH MEDICAL FRAGILITY DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BURDICK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

286

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07561, RULES REPORT

NO. 780, FALL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW,

IN RELATION TO AN EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN PROPERTY FROM THE PROHIBITION OF

ALCOHOL SALES WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE OF A CHURCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

FALL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07594, RULES REPORT

NO. 781, L. ROSENTHAL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE

CONTROL LAW, IN RELATION TO THE EXEMPTION OF CERTAIN PARCELS OF LAND

FROM LICENSING RESTRICTIONS PROHIBITING MANUFACTURERS, WHOLESALERS AND

RETAILERS OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES FROM SHARING AN INTEREST IN A LICENSED

287

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

PREMISES OR TO SELL AT RETAIL FOR CONSUMPTION OFF THE PREMISES.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

ROSENTHAL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07613, RULES REPORT

NO. 782, STERN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY

LAW, IN RELATION TO THE RETIREMENT OF MEMBERS EMPLOYED AS AN

EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN, CRITICAL CARE TECHNICIAN, ADVANCED

EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN, PARAMEDIC OR SUPERVISOR OF SUCH TITLES

IN A PARTICIPATING SUFFOLK COUNTY FIRE DISTRICT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

STERN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07616, RULES REPORT

NO. 783, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING TIER IV STATUS

IN THE NEW YORK STATE AND LOCAL EMPLOYEES' RETIREMENT SYSTEM FOR

MARC DEL PRADO..

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

SANTABARBARA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07654, RULES REPORT

NO. 784, DINOWITZ, BRAUNSTEIN, CRUZ, BORES. AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE

OFFICE OF THE [SIC] COURT ADMINISTRATION TO PAY CERTAIN JUDICIAL

COMPENSATION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

289

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. MANY OF US MAY

RECALL A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, I THINK IT WAS DURING COVID, THAT THE

OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION LAID OFF, I DON'T KNOW, A HALF-DOZEN,

DOZEN JUDGES THAT WOULD NORMALLY HAVE AGED OUT AND WOULD NORMALLY

HAVE BEEN CONTINUED ON. AND MANY OF US INITIATED, AS MUCH AS WE

COULD, TO CONVINCE THEM TO REVERSE THAT STAND AND ULTIMATELY THEY DID.

I THINK THE CHAIRMAN OF JUDICIARY, MR. LAVINE, WROTE A VERY EFFECTIVE

LETTER AND THEY RESTORED THEM. AND THAT WAS ALL GOOD NEWS. AND WHAT

THIS BILL DOES IS GIVE THOSE JUDGES, WHO DIDN'T WORK FOR SIX MONTHS, A

FULL PAY FOR THAT TIME PERIOD WHEN THEY WERE AT HOME NOT WORKING.

AND THERE ARE A LOT OF -- A LOT OF -- A LOT OF EMPLOYEES THAT LAID -- WERE

LAID OFF DURING COVID THAT NEVER GOT PAID IN FULL WHEN THEY WERE LAID

OFF. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD TREAT JUDGES THAT WERE LAID OFF AND NOT

WORKING AND GIVE THEM FULL SALARY AND BENEFITS FOR THE TIME PERIOD THEY

WERE LAID OFF WHEN LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF OUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS

AND EVERYONE ELSE ACROSS THE STATE WHO WERE LAID OFF GOT NOTHING MORE

THAN UNEMPLOYMENT.

FOR THAT REASON I WOULDN'T BE SUPPORTING IT. THANK

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. GOODELL IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. RA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. RA: THANK -- THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. BRIEFLY,

MR. GOODELL JUST DESCRIBED WHAT THIS BILL DOES. I THINK PERHAPS THE

DISGRACED FORMER GOVERNOR WHO IS THE PERSON WHO CAUSED THESE JUDGES

TO LOSE THEIR JOBS SHOULD SHARE SOME OF HIS $5 MILLION FROM HIS BOOK

AND PAY THEM RATHER THAN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. I VOTE IN THE

NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. RA IN THE

NEGATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07766, RULES REPORT

NO. 785, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW, IN

RELATION TO COMPENSATION, BENEFITS AND OTHER TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF

EMPLOYMENT OF CERTAIN STATE OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES; TO IMPLEMENT

AGREEMENTS BETWEEN THE STATE AND AN EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATION; AND TO

REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW RELATING THERETO; AND

MAKING AN APPROPRIATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF EFFECTUATING CERTAIN

PROVISIONS THEREFOR (PART A); TO AMEND THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW AND THE

CORRECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO SALARIES OF CERTAIN STATE OFFICERS AND

EMPLOYEES EXCLUDED FROM COLLECTIVE NEGOTIATING UNITS; TO REPEAL

291

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW AND THE CORRECTION LAW

RELATING THERETO; AND MAKING AN APPROPRIATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF

EFFECTUATING CERTAIN PROVISIONS THEREFOR (PART B).

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: I HEREBY CERTIFY TO AN IMMEDIATE VOTE.

KATHY HOCHUL, GOVERNOR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07767, RULES REPORT

NO. 786, EACHUS. AN ACT IMPLEMENTING AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE

STATE AND AN EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATION; PROVIDING FOR THE ADJUSTMENT OF

SALARIES OF CERTAIN INCUMBENTS IN THE PROFESSIONAL SERVICE IN THE STATE

UNIVERSITY; AND MAKING AN APPROPRIATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF

EFFECTUATING CERTAIN PROVISIONS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

EACHUS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK. THE CLERK WILL READ.

292

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: I HEREBY CERTIFY TO AN

IMMEDIATE VOTE. KATHY HOCHUL, GOVERNOR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. SO WE ARE MOVING ALONG NICELY HERE. WE'RE GOING TO GO TO

OUR NEXT SET OF RULES REPORT BILLS THAT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP ON

CONSENT; RULES REPORT NO. 321 BY MR. ZEBROWSKI; 605, MR. -- MS.

ROSENTHAL; 649, MS. PAULIN; 651, MS. FAHY; 746, MR. MCDONALD; 755,

MS. HUNTER; AND 758, MR. THIELE. THAT'S GONNA BE FOLLOWED BY, FROM

OUR DEBATE LIST, MR. SPEAKER, RULES REPORT NO. 561 BY MS. GLICK,

RULES REPORT NO. 800 BY MS. REYES, AND RULES REPORT 714 BY MR.

CARROLL.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. PAGE 7,

RULES REPORT NO. 321, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01077-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 321, ZEBROWSKI, COLTON, GUNTHER, LUPARDO, OTIS, PAULIN,

293

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SANTABARBARA, DARLING, BUTTENSCHON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND

TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING AN OPERATOR OF A MOTOR VEHICLE TO

EXERCISE DUE CARE TO AVOID COLLIDING WITH A MOTOR VEHICLE WHICH IS

PARKED, STOPPED OR STANDING ON THE SHOULDER OF A PARKWAY OR A

CONTROLLED-ACCESS HIGHWAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

ZEBROWSKI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. SO THIS BILL

EXPANDS THE MOVE OVER LAW TO INCLUDE VEHICLES THAT ARE PARKED ON THE

SHOULDER OF A PARKWAY OR A CONTROLLED-ACCESS HIGHWAY. WE ALREADY

KNOW THAT WHEN WE SEE A VEHICLE WITH FLASHING LIGHTS, A POLICE CAR, FOR

EXAMPLE, OR, YOU KNOW, A TOW TRUCK, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MOVE OVER A

LANE. AND I JUST WANTED TO EXPRESS THAT, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT WE'RE

EXPANDING IT TODAY AND I'LL SUPPORT IT, BUT I JUST THINK THAT I'VE SEEN

MORE IDIOT DRIVING IN THE LAST I DON'T KNOW LIKE A COUPLE OF YEARS THAN I

THINK EVER HAVE, AND I'M -- I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT WHEN WE'RE

REQUIRING NOW PEOPLE TO MOVE OVER WHETHER THERE AREN'T EVEN ANY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

LIGHTS FLASHING, THAT THERE'S GONNA BE SOME UNSAFE DRIVING AROUND THAT

PERSON THAT'S PULLED OVER. I WANT TO KEEP EVERYBODY SAFE. I WANT TO

KEEP THE POOR PERSON THAT EITHER GOT A FLAT TIRE AND NOBODY'S RESPONDED

YET OR SOMETHING ALONG THE SIDE OF THE ROAD. I WANT TO KEEP THEM SAFE,

BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE'S REACTIONS CAN BE SWERVING INTO THE -- THE LANES

WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO DRIVE, TOO.

SO, I DON'T KNOW, I'LL SUPPORT THIS BUT BOY, I DON'T

KNOW, I THINK EVERYBODY'S JUST GONNA SLOW DOWN. BUT ANYWAY, THANK

YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU. MS.

WALSH IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, PLEASE CALL

THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM

IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CERTAINLY. WAYS AND

MEANS, SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY, PLEASE.

PAGE 14, RULES REPORT NO. 605, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S06943, RULES REPORT NO.

605, SENATOR KAVANAGH (A07209, L. ROSENTHAL). AN ACT TO AMEND

CHAPTER 514 OF THE LAWS OF 1983 AMENDING THE PRIVATE HOUSING

FINANCE LAW AND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW RELATING TO THE POWERS OF

295

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE NEW YORK STATE HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY AND THE NEW YORK CITY

HOUSING DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION TO FINANCE CERTAIN MULTI-FAMILY

HOUSING, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 396

OF THE LAWS OF 1984 AMENDING THE PRIVATE HOUSING FINANCE LAW AND

THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW RELATING TO THE POWERS OF THE NEW YORK

STATE HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY TO FINANCE CERTAIN MULTI-FAMILY

HOUSING, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 915

OF THE LAWS OF 1982 AMENDING THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW RELATING TO

THE POWERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK MORTGAGE AGENCY, IN RELATION TO

THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN

RELATION TO THE POWERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK MORTGAGE AGENCY; TO

AMEND CHAPTER 555 OF THE LAWS OF 1989 AMENDING THE PUBLIC

AUTHORITIES LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A NEW YORK

STATE INFRASTRUCTURE TRUST FUND, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF;

TO AMEND CHAPTER 172 OF THE LAWS OF 2002 AMENDING THE PUBLIC

AUTHORITIES LAW RELATING TO THE POWERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK

MORTGAGE AGENCY, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND

CHAPTER 208 OF THE LAWS OF 2010 AMENDING THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES

LAW RELATING TO THE POWERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK MORTGAGE

AGENCY, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER

246 OF THE LAWS OF 2010 AMENDING THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW RELATING

TO THE POWERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK MORTGAGE AGENCY, IN RELATION

TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE -- READ THE

LAST SECTION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: WE NEED TO WITHDRAW

THE ROLL CALL. A PARTY VOTE HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL

EXTENDS THE SONYMA PROGRAM, SONYMA PROVIDES SOME FINANCIAL

BACKING OF MORTGAGES THROUGHOUT NEW YORK STATE. IT DOES HELP A LOT

OF PEOPLE, AND THE CONCERN IS THAT THE BONDING AUTHORITY FOR SONYMA

IS ALSO INCREASED BY 500 MILLION, WHICH BRINGS SONYMA'S TOTAL DEBT

TO OVER $31 BILLION. SO WITH THIS INCREASE, SONYMA'S OVERALL DEBT

WILL BE APPROXIMATELY HALF OF THE ENTIRE STATE OF NEW YORK, THEN. SO

THAT'S A CONCERN. YOU WOULD HOPE THAT IF THEY HAVE 31 BILLION IN ASSETS

THAT THE REPAYMENT OF THE MORTGAGES WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO COVER THEIR

ONGOING AMORTIZATION AND FUTURE OPERATIONS. AND THAT'S WHY I'M

CALLING A PARTY VOTE. THANK YOU, SIR. IN THE NEGATIVE, BUT THOSE WHO

SUPPORT IT CAN CERTAINLY VOTE YES.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, THE

MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION,

THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR DESK. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

297

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 16, RULES REPORT NO. 649, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06683-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 649, PAULIN, STIRPE, WALLACE, WOERNER, LUPARDO,

MCDONALD, ZEBROWSKI, LUNSFORD, BRONSON, BUTTENSCHON, FAHY, FALL,

LEVENBERG, WALSH, MEEKS, GUNTHER, MCMAHON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A COMMUNITY-BASED

PARAMEDICINE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF

SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PAULIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 17, RULES REPORT NO. 651, THE CLERK WILL READ.

298

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06697-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 651, FAHY, PAULIN, MCDONALD, LUPARDO, PEOPLES-STOKES,

LUNSFORD, CLARK, JENSEN, CUNNINGHAM, SEAWRIGHT, ROZIC, STIRPE,

WOERNER, DESTEFANO, MIKULIN, ANGELINO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO TEMPORARILY AUTHORIZING CERTAIN

APPLICANTS FOR LICENSURE AS A NURSE OR PHYSICIAN TO PRACTICE; AND

PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON THE EXPIRATION

THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. I JUST REALLY WANTED TO THANK THE SPONSOR OF THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. IT'S GONNA HAVE A SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT TO THE -- PARTICULARLY

THE HOSPITALS IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN AND STILL

IS A SHORTAGE SINCE THE COVID EPIDEMIC, AND WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE

CLINICAL CARE AND TO PROVIDE SERVICES TO OUR CONSTITUENCIES, AND THIS IS

JUST ONE OF THOSE WAYS WE DO IT.

SO I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR SPONSORING THIS

LEGISLATION AND I'M VERY PLEASED TO BE SUPPORTING IT.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: MS. FAHY.

MS. FAHY: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JUST WANTED

299

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TO ECHO SOME OF THE COMMENTS WE JUST HEARD, AND THANK THE SPEAKER AS

WELL AS A WHOLE HOST OF FOLKS TO REALLY -- THIS IS A -- WE HAVE AN

EXECUTIVE ORDER FROM THE HEIGHT OF COVID THAT IS EXPIRING, WE STILL

HAVE TEMPORARY NURSES. THIS ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE SURE THEY GET THEIR

APPLICATIONS IN AND -- AND THAT WE DON'T HAVE A BLIP, ESPECIALLY FOR A

WHOLE HOST OF HOSPITALS, AS YOU JUST HEARD REFERENCED BY THE MAJORITY

LEADER. THIS AFFECTS HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF NURSES, BUT WE DO HOPE

THEY WILL NOT ONLY APPLY FOR THEIR NEW YORK LICENSE, THAT THEY WILL

BECOME NEW YORK RESIDENTS. AS WE KNOW, WE HAVE SERIOUS SHORTAGES

THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND PARTICULARLY FROM A WHOLE HOST OF UPSTATE

HOSPITALS THAT WE HAVE BEEN HEARING -- HEARING ABOUT. SO AGAIN, THIS

EXPIRES, THIS WILL HELP MITIGATE ANY ANTICIPATED GLITCHES IN WHAT ALREADY

ARE VERY SERIOUS WORKFORCE CHALLENGES IN OUR HOSPITALS AND THROUGHOUT

OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

AND WITH THAT I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU,

MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 21, RULES REPORT NO. 746, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07755, REPORT NO.

746, MCDONALD, ROZIC. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN

RELATION TO PROCEDURES FOR APPOINTMENT AND REAPPOINTMENT OF NOTARIES

PUBLIC, CERTIFICATES OF OFFICIAL CHARACTER AND CERTIFICATION OF ELECTRONIC

300

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

NOTARIAL RECORDS.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MCDONALD, THE -- THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL

IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 23, RULES REPORT NO. 755, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATOR NO. S03539, RULES REPORT

NO. 755, SENATOR KAVANAGH (A04167, HUNTER, ZINERMAN, DAVILA,

JACKSON, STIRPE). AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN

RELATION TO PAYMENT AND RETAINAGE IN CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THIS BILL AMENDS

THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW TO IMPOSE, BY STATUTE, PROVISIONS RELATING TO

301

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

RETAINING (INAUDIBLE) PRIVATE CONTRACTS BETWEEN PRIVATE PARTIES.

CURRENTLY, THE BUSINESS -- GENERAL BUSINESS LAW ALLOWS PARTIES TO A

CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT WHERE THE -- THE PERSON WHO WAS CONTRACTING CAN

REQUIRE OR HAVE A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF THE CONTRACT SUM AS RETAINAGE.

AND RETAINAGE IS PART OF THE CONTRACT THAT'S HELD BACK TO MAKE SURE THAT

THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED AND EVERYTHING IS DONE. WHAT THIS DOES IS IT

IMPOSES A LIMIT ON HOW MUCH THE PRIVATE PARTIES CAN NEGOTIATE

BETWEEN THEMSELVES ON HOW MUCH THEIR RETAINAGE CAN BE, AND THIS

IMPOSES A FIVE PERCENT RETAINAGE. AND MANY OF US, PARTICULARLY IN A

HOMEOWNERS' CONTRACT, WILL OFTEN SEE WHERE YOU PAY THE CONTRACTOR

HALF UP FRONT, HALF AT THE END. THIS SAYS, NO, YOU CAN'T HOLD BACK MORE

THAN FIVE PERCENT. BY COMPARISON, PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACT, YOU CAN

HOLD BACK 10 PERCENT. THIS IS SUPPORTED BY ALL YOUR CONTRACTORS, AND

NONE OF YOUR HOMEOWNERS ARE HERE TO COMPLAIN. BUT IT -- IT REALLY

LEAVES SOME OF THE HOMEOWNERS AND OTHER CONTRACT, YOU KNOW, OWNERS

AT REAL RISK BY ELIMINATING THE AMOUNT OF THE RETAINAGE, AND FOR THAT

REASON I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING IT.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 23, RULES REPORT NO. 758, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04955-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 758, THIELE, L. ROSENTHAL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL

PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO LEASE-HOLD RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT OCTOBER 1ST.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. GIGLIO TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

MY VOTE. I WANT TO THANK MR. THIELE FOR BRINGING THIS LEGISLATION

FORWARD. WE HAVE MANY RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES WITHIN MY DISTRICT,

WE HAVE ABOUT 2,500 MANUFACTURED HOMES WITHIN MY DISTRICT THAT ARE

UNDER THE THREAT OF OVER-DEVELOPMENT. THEY ARE TRYING TO KICK THESE

SENIORS OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND CREATE MORE HOMELESSNESS. AND JUST

HAVING THE RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES HAVE THE FIRST RIGHT OF REFUSAL TO

GATHER THE MONEY, TO GET THE FUNDING TO BUY THE PROPERTY, TO HOLD ONTO

IT AND RETAIN IT SO THEY AREN'T -- THEY DON'T BECOME HOMELESS IS VERY

IMPORTANT. SO FRED AND I HAVE WORKED ON THIS FOR MANY YEARS, ONCE

WHEN I WAS A TOWN COUNCIL PERSON AND NOW AS AN ASSEMBLYPERSON.

AND I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUE FOR CARRYING IT BECAUSE IT'S REALLY A

VERY IMPORTANT BILL, TO MAKE SURE THAT SENIORS AND COMMUNITIES, FAMILY

COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE ARE MANUFACTURED HOMES ARE PROTECTED FROM

EVICTION FROM A DEVELOPER COMING IN AND WANTING TO JUST THROW THEM

ALL OUT ONTO THE STREET.

SO THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUE, AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD

BILL. YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE SOME PROBLEMS WITH THE LEASE ISSUES

BUT I THINK THOSE THINGS COULD BE WORKED OUT. BUT AS LONG AS THEY HAVE

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RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL AND THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUY THE PROPERTY

BASED ON THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY AND NOT ON THE HIGHEST BIDDER TO

WHERE THEY ALL BECOME HOMELESS, IT'S A GOOD BILL.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 12, RULES REPORT NO. 561, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07640, RULES REPORT

NO. 561, GLICK, ARDILA, SIMON, BORES, STECK, L. ROSENTHAL, THIELE,

COLTON, LEE, SIMONE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL

CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE BIRDS AND BEES

PROTECTION ACT.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: ON A MOTION BY MS.

GLICK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED, MS. GLICK.

MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WE'VE SEEN

THIS BILL BEFORE. WE PASSED THIS BILL NOT THAT LONG AGO, BUT IN THE

INTERVENING TIME, CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN UNDERTAKEN AND THERE ARE A

COUPLE OF AMENDMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE. IT WAS MADE ON THE

SENATE SIDE AND PASSED TO US, AND WE AGREE THAT THE -- TO ADDRESS SOME

OF THE CONCERNS. THE BILL WILL BE EFFECTIVE A YEAR LATER, JANUARY 1ST,

2027, AND IT PROVIDES THAT THE DEC COMMISSIONER, IN CONSULTATION

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WITH THE COMMISSIONER OF AG AND MARKETS, WITH THE AUTHORITY TO ISSUE

WRITTEN ORDER, WOULD BE PUT FORWARD ON OCTOBER 1ST AND UPDATED

ANNUALLY THAT WOULD SUSPEND THE TREATED SEED PROHIBITION IF THERE'S

INSUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF COMMERCIALLY-AVAILABLE UNTREATED SEEDS, OR IF AS

HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE, IF THERE IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCY

WHICH IS DEFINED IN THE BILL AND IS NOT CHANGED FROM THE -- THE

BILL-IN-CHIEF, WHICH IS TO SAY THAT AN ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCY MEANS

ANY OCCURRENCE OF ANY PEST THAT PRESENTS A SIGNIFICANT RISK OF HARM OR

INJURY TO THE ENVIRONMENT OR A SIGNIFICANT HARM OR INJURY OR LOSS TO

AGRICULTURAL CROPS INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY EXOTIC OR FOREIGN

PEST WHICH MAY NEED PREVENTATIVE QUARANTINE MEASURES TO AVOID RISK

TO THE CROP. SO THE BILL CONTINUES THE INTENTION TO PROHIBIT THE SALE OF

TREATED SEEDS TREATED WITH NEONICOTINOIDS, KNOWN BY MANY PEOPLE FOR

SHORT, NEONICS. SO THAT HASN'T CHANGED, THAT'S THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THE

BILL. BUT WE DID MAKE THESE ADJUSTMENTS IN RESPONSE TO CONCERNS THAT

HAD BEEN RAISED.

ACTING SPEAKER RAGA: MR. TAGUE.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD THE

CHAIR PLEASE YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

MS. GLICK: OF COURSE, MR. TAGUE.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU SO MUCH. YOU AND I GET TO

TALK ABOUT THE BIRDS AND THE BEES AGAIN.

MS. GLICK: MY LUCKY DAY.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. TAGUE: YES, IT IS. THE ONLY -- THE ONLY GOOD

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THING IS IS THAT WE'RE NOT DOING THIS AT 3 OR 4 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING LIKE

WE NORMALLY DO. BUT, PRIOR TO THE USE OF SEED TREATMENTS,

CHAIRWOMAN, CAN YOU DESCRIBE HOW AND WHAT FARMERS USED TO CONTROL

FOR PESTS WHEN PLANTING CORN OR SOYBEAN?

MS. GLICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN

FOR, I SUPPOSE, SINCE THE CHEMICAL INDUSTRY CREATED THEM, INSECTICIDES

THAT WERE SPRAYED ON CROPS, PROBABLY SOME OF THEM WERE DUSTED FROM

AIRPLANES, SOME OF THEM WERE PROBABLY SPRAYED OFF OF EITHER TRACTORS OR

TRUCKS WITH A SPRAYING MECHANISM. AND OBVIOUSLY, I KNOW THAT, YOU

KNOW, THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT DOING -- THAT THAT SUBJECTED THE

POTENTIAL FOR WIND TO CARRY THOSE INSECTICIDES. BUT I WILL SAY THAT IT'S

NOT AS IF THE TREATED SEEDS WHICH ARE TREATED WITH A NEUROTOXIN THAT IS

PLANTED IN THE GROUND AND PERSISTS IN THE SOIL AND HAS HAD A NEGATIVE

EFFECT, THE REASON THE PEOPLE REFER TO IT AS BIRDS AND BEES IS THAT IT HAS

NEGATIVELY AFFECTED THE -- IT NEGATIVELY AFFECTED POLLINATORS. AND IT

CORRELATES WITH THE TIME THE DECLINE, MAJOR DECLINE IN POLLINATORS TRACKS

TO THE TIME FROM WHEN THESE TREATED SEEDS BECAME USED WIDELY. NOT

JUST SPECIFICALLY WHEN THERE WAS A PROBLEM, BUT PROPHYLACTICALLY AND

ROUTINELY, WHICH HAS ULTIMATELY CREATED THIS PROBLEM.

MR. TAGUE: WELL, YOU'RE -- YOU'RE KIND OF RIGHT

WITH YOUR ANSWER. THE ANSWER IS WE USE GALLONS AND GALLONS OF PEST --

PESTICIDE SPREAD OVER PER ACRE AND MIXED BY HAND MANY TIMES.

THE NEXT QUESTION, WHY HAS THE INDUSTRY MOVED TO

SEED TREATMENTS?

MS. GLICK: WELL, I'M SURE THAT IT WAS FOR THEM A --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

A WAY OF INCREASING PROFITS.

MR. TAGUE: NO, NO. UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S NOT THE

ANSWER. BUT -- BUT ANYWAYS, TO GET AWAY FROM USING THE GALLONS AND

GALLONS PER ACRE AND MOVE TO ONLY AN OUNCE PER ACRE OF ACTIVE

INGREDIENT, WHICH WAS ALSO SAFER -- SAFER FOR THE FARMERS AND SAFER FOR

THE ENVIRONMENT. CAN YOU TELL ME WHY MOST FARMERS GROW CORN AND

SOYBEAN IN NEW YORK STATE?

MS. GLICK: WELL, I PRESUME A LOT OF THE CORN IS

AGRICULTURAL AS WELL AS FOR SALE ON THE MARKET.

MR. TAGUE: WELL, THE ANSWER -- THE ANSWER IS TO

FEED OUR DAIRY COWS.

MS. GLICK: YES, THAT'S THE AGRICULTURAL CORN I WAS

REFERRING TO.

MR. TAGUE: YEAH. AND INSTEAD OF HAVING TO

PURCHASE AND TRUCK GRAIN FROM ELSEWHERE. SO WHEN YOU PROHIBIT THE

USE OF SEED TREATMENTS IN THE STATE, CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE ANTICIPATED

LOSS OF CROP YIELD?

MS. GLICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING. I

KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME STUDIES THAT SAY THAT THERE CAN BE A DROP-OFF

OF UP TO 13 PERCENT, BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, SOME STUDIES HAVE

INDICATED, PARTICULARLY STUDIES IN PLACES LIKE CANADA WHERE THEY

ACTUALLY HAVE BANNED THIS -- THE USE OF THESE TREATED SEEDS, THERE -- AND

THEY HAVE INDICATED THAT STUDIES THERE AND IN EUROPE INDICATED THAT

THERE WAS NOT A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN YIELD AND NOT A SIGNIFICANT LOSS

OF PRODUCT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. TAGUE: WELL, THE ANSWER --

MS. GLICK: WELL, THAT'S YOUR ANSWER.

MR. TAGUE: WELL, NO --

MS. GLICK: MY ANSWER (INAUDIBLE).

MR. TAGUE: -- MY ANSWER -- MY -- MY ANSWER

COMES FROM ALL THE LEADING GROUPS IN AGRICULTURE, WHICH INCLUDES FARM

BUREAU, AND THE ANSWER IS 40 PERCENT, 40 PERCENT. LISTEN, CHAIR, I

USED TO DO THIS FOR A LIVING, OKAY? I GREW CORN, I GREW SOYBEAN. I

GREW IT WHEN WE USED TO PLOW THE FIELDS, DISC AND TILL, USE THE SPRAY,

AND I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW, IF WE DIDN'T DO THAT BACK THEN THE YIELD

WOULD BE TERRIBLE. THEY'VE COME UP WITH A NEW SAFER WAY WITH THE

NEONICS, OKAY, AND IT IS MUCH SAFER. IT IS MUCH SAFER, AND I CAN TELL YOU

BECAUSE I KNOW THAT I HAVE PLANTED MUCH MORE CORN AND SOYBEAN THAN

YOU HAVE. I'VE PROBABLY -- EXCEPT FOR MR. MANKTELOW I HAVE PROBABLY

GROWN MORE SOYBEAN AND CORN THAN ANYBODY IN THIS ROOM, OKAY? SO

FARMS WILL NOW HAVE TO TRUCK IN ADDED FEED FOR THEIR DAIRY COWS AND

LIVESTOCK BASED ON LOWER YIELDS. HOW DOES THAT IMPACT THE

ENVIRONMENT?

MS. GLICK: WELL, AS I HAVE SAID, WORKING WITH

CORNELL AND OVER 1,000 PEER-REVIEWED STUDIES, THERE IS NOT THE SAME

LOSS OF YIELD THAT YOU HAVE INDICATED. OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE A DIFFERENCE

OF OPINION AND THAT'S -- THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT. WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS

DEBATE BEFORE, WE'VE HAD THE SAME DISCUSSION AND WE HAVE A

DIFFERENCE OF OPINION, WHICH I APPRECIATE THAT THERE'S A RESPECTFUL

CONVERSATION --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. TAGUE: ABSOLUTELY.

MS. GLICK: -- BETWEEN US, AS THERE ALWAYS HAVE

BEEN. BUT, YOU KNOW, I JUST BELIEVE THAT THE STUDIES THAT INDICATE THAT

THIS PERSISTS IN THE SOIL, UNDERMINING THE HEALTH OF THE SOIL, LEADING TO

THE DEMISE OF SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF POLLINATORS ULTIMATELY IS NOT TO

THE ADVANTAGE OF EITHER THE ENVIRONMENT OR EVEN THE FARMERS.

MR. TAGUE: WELL, AND AGAIN I -- I WANT TO -- I WANT

TO KIND OF SAY BACK TO YOU THE SAME THING YOU JUST SAID TO ME. FIRST OF

ALL, I RESPECT AND APPRECIATE HOW HARD YOU WORK FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND I KNOW THAT YOU'RE VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT IT AND I ALWAYS ENJOY OUR

DISCUSSIONS. ALTHOUGH WE DISAGREE ON MANY THINGS, THERE ARE SOME

THINGS THAT WE AGREE ABOUT. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WE DISAGREE

HOW TO GET THERE, BUT WE AGREE ON THE FINAL SOLUTION. SO I JUST WANT TO

SAY ABSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT TOWARDS YOU OR YOUR VIEWS ON THIS ISSUE,

I'M JUST COMING FROM A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW.

LASTLY, I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU'RE A SUPPORTER OF SOIL

HEALTH AND CARBON SEQUESTRATION. ARE YOU AWARE THAT TO COMBAT PESTS

AND WEEDS WITHOUT THE USE OF PESTICIDE CONTROLS, FIELDS HAVE TO BE

RIPPED UP AT DEEP DEPTHS BEFORE PLANTING TO FIGHT PESTS AND WEEDS, AND

THIS RELEASES A LARGE AMOUNT OF CARBON INTO THE ATMOSPHERE?

MS. GLICK: WELL, OBVIOUSLY, IF ONE HAD TO DIG UP A

FIELD THAT WOULD BE DEEPLY DISTURBING AND OF COURSE WOULD RELEASE

SOME AMOUNT OF -- OF CARBON. BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, THE IMPACT ON

THIS, THESE CHEMICALS THAT ARE TOXIC AND PERSIST IN THE SOIL AND IMPACT

NON-TARGETED PESTS, BENEFICIAL PESTS, THIS -- IT HAS A WIDESPREAD IMPACT

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ON THE ENVIRONMENT. IF IT'S PERSISTING IN THE SOIL IT CAN RUN INTO STREAMS

AND AFFECT WATER QUALITY. AND WE DO SEE THOSE IMPACTS ON THE

PHYSIOLOGY OF -- IN FISHERIES NEAR FARMS. IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.

MR. TAGUE: NOW, CHAIR, DO YOU KNOW THAT SEED

TREATMENTS ALLOW FOR LOW- OR NO-TILLAGE PLANTING TO PREVENT WHAT WE

JUST DISCUSSED FROM HAPPENING? AND HEALTHY SOILS MEANS A LOT OF BUGS,

SOME OF WHICH WE HAVE TO PROTECT OURSELVES AGAINST.

MS. GLICK: YES. BUT, YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, THESE

ARE NEUROTOXINS AND IT KILLS ALL BUGS, WHETHER THEY ARE A TARGETED PEST

OR THE BENEFICIAL INSECTS. AND IT IS SYSTEMIC, IT MOVES THROUGH THE

PLANT AND IT IMPACTS NON-TARGET CRITTERS.

MR. TAGUE: WELL, I'M GONNA ADDRESS THAT WHEN I

SPEAK ON THE BILL BECAUSE I -- I -- AGAIN, YOU AND I HAVE DIFFERENT

VIEWPOINTS AND WE'RE GONNA -- WE'RE NOT GONNA AGREE TO DISAGREE ON --

OR WE ARE GONNA AGREE TO DISAGREE ON -- ON THAT PORTION OF IT.

BUT MY FINAL QUESTION, AND AGAIN, I APPRECIATE YOUR

ANSWERS AND ALWAYS ENJOY A GOOD RESPECTFUL DEBATE WITH YOU, WHETHER

IT'S IN COMMITTEE OR HERE ON THE FLOOR. DID THE AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY

SUPPORT THE AMENDMENTS TO THIS BILL EVEN THOUGH IT WAS REPRESENTED

DURING THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION COMMITTEE MEETING?

MS. GLICK: WELL, I'M SURE THAT THERE ARE FARMERS

WHO DON'T USE SEEDED -- TREATED SEEDS, AND THEY ARE SOMETIMES ADJACENT

TO FARMS THAT ARE USING TREATED SEEDS. SO I'M SURE THAT AT LEAST THOSE

FARM -- FARMERS ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE.

MR. TAGUE: WELL AGAIN, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

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CHAIR.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. TAGUE: MY -- MY COLLEAGUES, THIS PROHIBITION

WOULD SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACT THE ABILITY OF NEW YORK FARMERS TO

SUCCESSFULLY RAISE SUFFICIENT CROPS, INCLUDING CORN FOR GRAIN, SILAGE,

BEANS, WHEAT, BARLEY, OATS, PUMPKINS AND SOYBEANS. THESE ARE VALUED

IN THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO NEW YORK FARMERS. THE

NEAFA APPRECIATES THE ATTEMPTS TO CREATE CIRCUIT-BREAKER MECHANISMS

BY ENGAGING THE COMMISSIONERS OF DEC AND AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS

THROUGH PUBLIC COMMENT TO DETERMINE THAT NO ACCEPTABLE ALTERNATIVE

EXISTS. UNFORTUNATELY, THE PRACTICAL REALITY IS THAT BY THE TIME SUCH AN

ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS IS COMPLETE, THE CROPS IN QUESTION WILL RISK

BEING PLANTED WITHOUT THE PROTECTION OF NEONICS AND SIGNIFICANT YIELDS

OF THE CROPS WILL BE LOST. THE DECISION TO USE NEONIC-TREATED SEED MUST

BE MADE MANY MONTHS BEFORE THE SEEDS ARE PLANTED. THROUGH BEST

MANAGEMENT PRACTICES, FARMERS CAN DECIDE IF TREATED SEEDS ARE

NECESSARY. FARMERS PLANT TREATED SEEDS BECAUSE THEY ARE AT RISK -- BEST

RISK MANAGEMENT TOOL THEY CAN INVEST IN TO ENSURE THE SEED WILL

GERMINATE AND BREAK THROUGH THE SOIL SURFACE WITHOUT BEING DESTROYED.

UNTREATED SEEDS ARE NOT PROTECTED FROM THE MYRIAD OF INSECTS THAT FIND

SEEDS AND SEEDLINGS EXCELLENT SOURCES OF NUTRIENTS. AS OUR INDUSTRY

FOCUSES ON SOIL HEALTH PRACTICES, CONTINUE TO GROW, SO WILL THE NUMBER

OF SEED AND SEEDLING-LOVING INSECTS. THEREFORE, TREATED SEEDS WILL

BECOME AN EVEN MORE IMPORTANT RISK MANAGEMENT TOOL IN THE FUTURE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SEED TREATMENTS ARE THE PRECISE APPLICATION OF BIOLOGICAL ORGANISMS

AND/OR CHEMICAL INGREDIENTS TO SUPPRESS, CONTROL OR REPEL PLANT

PATHOGENS, INSECTS OR OTHER PESTS THAT ATTACK SEEDS, SEEDLINGS OR PLANTS.

BECAUSE OF THEIR TARGETED ACCURACY, THEY SELECT -- SELECTIVELY CONTROL

PESTS WHILE ENSURING BENEFICIAL INSECTS REMAIN AVAILABLE TO KEEP OTHER

POTENTIAL INSECTS, PESTS -- I'M SORRY, INSECT PESTS IN CHECK. THEIR SAFE

AND TARGETED USE PROVIDES AN EFFICIENT USE OF PESTICIDES AND REDUCES THE

AMOUNT OF CHEMICALS USED ON LARGE AREAS OF FARMLAND. SEED TREATMENTS

SUCH AS THOSE WITH NEONICOTINOID PESTICIDES UNDERGO RIGOROUS TESTING

WITH EPA REVIEW PRIOR TO BEING PERMITTED TO BE USED COMMERCIAL. THE

EPA CAREFULLY CONSIDERS EFFECTS ON MANY NON-PEST ORGANISMS,

INCLUDING HONEY BEES, AND WHEN THEY APPROVE NEW INSECTICIDES FOR

USE, EPA DATA HAS SHOWN LOW RISK, I REPEAT, LOW RISK TO POLLINATORS

FROM TREATED SEED IN RECENT ASSESSMENTS.

A RECENT MULTI-YEAR STUDY OF NEONIC USE IN FIELD CROPS

AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND FOUND THAT THERE WERE NO DETECTIBLE

RESIDUES OF NEONICS REMAINING IN THE SOIL, NOR -- NOR WERE THERE ANY

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CONTROLLED AND NEONIC PLOTS IN TERMS OF SOIL,

MICROBIAL ACTIVITY, MICROBIAL DIVERSITY, SOIL RESPIRATION OR SOIL PH.

FARMERS HAVE EMBRACED SEED TREATMENTS FOR THESE FOLLOWING REASONS:

IMPROVED SEEDING EMERGENCE IN HEALTH, ESPECIALLY IN NO-TILL OR

CONVERSATION-TILLAGE SITUATIONS; VIABLE ALTERNATIVE TO FOLIAR AND SOIL

APPLICATIONS WHICH REQUIRE ADDITIONAL PASSES ACROSS FIELDS, RESULTING IN

INCREASED FUEL USE AND SOIL COMPACTION; PROTECTION AGAINST SOME

ABOVE- AND BELOW-GROUND PESTS INCLUDING SOME THAT INTRODUCE FUNGAL,

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BACTERIAL AND VIRAL DISEASE; REDUCTION OR ELIMINATION IN THE NUMBER OF

INSECTICIDE FOLIAR SPRAYS DUE TO TARGETED PROTECTION AGAINST INSECT PESTS;

HIGHER CROP YIELDS AND REDUCTION IN THE USE OF NATURAL RESOURCES,

ENERGY, MONEY AND LABOR; PROTECTION FOR SEEDS AND SEEDLINGS AGAINST

SOME OF THE RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH EARLY-SEASON PLANTING PESTS; AND

LASTLY, A MORE EFFICIENT USE OF PESTICIDES AND OTHER CHEMICALS.

MY FRIENDS, SEED TREATMENTS ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF

FARMERS' INTEGRATIVE PEST MANAGEMENT PLANS, AND NEONICOTINOIDS MUST

REMAIN AVAILABLE AS A SEED TREATMENT FOR NEW YORK CROP GROWERS.

NEW YORK'S POLLINATOR PROTECTION PLAN PROVIDES A VALUABLE GUIDANCE TO

FARMERS AND BEEKEEPERS TO MINIMIZE PESTICIDE HAZARDS WITHOUT

SACRIFICING THE CRITICAL CLASS OF PESTICIDES.

MR. SPEAKER, CAN I USE MY OTHER 15?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: SECOND 15 FOR YOU,

SIR.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU. THANK YOU. GOING A LITTLE

LONG TONIGHT.

MY FRIENDS, IF THIS BILL IS ENACTED, THIS BILL WILL DRIVE

FARMERS TO ACTUALLY USE MORE PESTICIDES BY VIRTUE OF BANNING SEED

TREATMENTS THAT CONTAIN EXTREMELY, AND LET ME REPEAT, EXTREMELY SMALL

AMOUNTS OF NEEDED PESTICIDE PRODUCTS. INSTEAD OF FARMERS USING

PROHIBITED SEED TREATMENTS, THEY WILL BE FORCED TO PERFORM LARGER-SCALE

FOLIAR APPLICATIONS OF PESTICIDES TO CONTROL PESTS AND CREATE ADDITIONAL

ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS BY USING DIESEL FUEL, MORE POWER EQUIPMENT,

SO ON AND SO ON. IT SHOULD ALSO BE MENTIONED THAT INCREASED

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

POPULATIONS OF INSECTS ARE A DIRECT RESULT OF DEVELOPING HEALTH --

HEALTHIER, MORE RESILIENT SOIL THAT BENEFITS THE CLIMATE. ALTHOUGH SOIL

HEALTH IS EVERY FARMER'S PRIORITY, AN INCREASED INSECT PILE -- POPULATION

CAN CREATE DEVASTATING DAMAGE TO FARM CROPS. CARE SHOULD BE TAKEN BY

THIS LEGISLATURE TO BALANCE THE GOAL OF INCREASING SOIL HEALTH PRACTICES

WHILE BEING AWARE OF THE DAMAGE PESTS CAN HAVE ON CROP YIELDS.

AND I'M GOING TO END WITH THIS. I JUST WANT TO LAY OUT

FOR EVERYBODY THE REAL TRUTH, OKAY? THIS HAS BEEN A FLAWED PROCESS

WITHOUT STAKEHOLDER ENGAGEMENT FROM DAY ONE. THE BILL WORKS AGAINST

NEW YORK'S CLIMATE GOALS. CONTRARY TO FALSE STATEMENTS, THESE BILLS

WILL NOT IMPROVE POLLINATOR HEALTH AND HABITAT. AND I WANT TO FINISH BY

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THE CORNELL REPORT SAYS ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF

NEONIC USE. RESEARCH SUCH AS THE 2020 CORNELL UNIVERSITY REPORT,

NEONICOTINOID INSECTICIDES IN NEW YORK STATE FINDS THAT ALL

ALTERNATIVES TO NEONIC PRODUCTS FOR THE CONTROL OF PESTS COULD BE MUCH

LESS EFFECTIVE, MORE HAZARDOUS AND MORE COSTLY THAN NEONICOTINOIDS.

ADDITIONALLY, THE CORNELL REPORT LAYS OUT SPECIFIC RISK MANAGEMENT

TECHNIQUES AS EFFECTIVE IN REDUCING PESTICIDE EXPOSURE TO POLLINATORS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE REPORT STATES THAT MOWING TURF BEFORE SPRING

APPLICATIONS IS KNOWN TO REDUCE CONCENTRATIONS IN WEED FLOWERS BY 98

PERCENT. THE REPORT CONVEYS THE FOLLOWING: MAJOR INSECT PESTS OF TURF

GRASS IN NEW YORK COULD BE DIVIDED INTO SIX PEST COMPLEXES; WHITE

GRUBS, WEEVILS, CHINCH BUG, CATERPILLARS, MOUND-BUILDING ANTS, LEATHER

JACKETS. BASE PRODUCTS ARE LABELED FOR TARGET PESTS IN ALL SIX

COMPLEXES. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT FOR CONTROL OF WHITE GRUBS, THE

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WHITE GRUB WHICH IS COMPLEX IS LIKELY THE MOST DAMAGING TURF GRASS

PEST IN NEW YORK STATE. THE CORNELL REPORT POINTS OUT THAT THE

NEONICOTINOIDS PLAYS AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN WHITE GRUB CONTROL

THROUGHOUT THE STATE, ESPECIALLY ON LONG ISLAND WHERE THERE IS NO

PRACTICAL ALTERNATIVE FOR PREVENTATIVE TREATMENT. SO THE REPORT GOES ON

TO SAY HOW IMPORTANT AND ACTUALLY HOW SAFE NEONICS ARE.

MY FRIENDS, PASSING THIS BILL WAS A MISTAKE THREE

WEEKS AGO, IT'S GOING TO BE A MISTAKE TONIGHT AND IT'S GOING TO BE VERY,

VERY HARMFUL TO OUR DAIRY PRODUCERS, OUR CROP FARMERS, OUR FRUIT

FARMERS HERE IN OUR STATE. WE HAVE TO STOP BITING THE HAND THAT FEEDS

US. FARM BUREAU SAYS IT BEST: NO FARMS, NO FOOD. IF WE CONTINUE TO

REGULATE OUR FARMERS OUT OF THE STATE AND PUT THEM ON AN UNLEVEL

PLAYING FIELD, WE ARE GOING TO BE IN SERIOUS, SERIOUS TROUBLE. FARMING

IS ONE OF THE -- ONE OF THE LOVES OF MY LIFE, SOMETHING THAT I HAVE A

GREAT PASSION FOR. I WOULDN'T STAND HERE TONIGHT AND SAY TO YOU AND --

AND -- AND ADVOCATE FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

BECAUSE ANYBODY THAT KNOWS A FARMER KNOWS, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING

TO THEM IS THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE LAND THAT THEY WORK.

SO I'M ASKING MY FRIENDS, EVERY PERSON IN THIS ROOM,

TO THINK LONG AND HARD BEFORE YOU VOTE ON THIS BILL. IF YOU DON'T CARE

ABOUT EATING FOOD, IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT SOIL HEALTH AND YOU DON'T

CARE ABOUT THE FARMERS THAT DO THE WORK TO MAKE SURE THAT EACH AND

EVERY ONE OF US AND OUR FAMILIES HAVE FOOD, THEN I ASK YOU, DON'T VOTE

FOR THIS BILL. DO THE RIGHT THING. LET'S WORK TOGETHER WITH THE FOLKS AT

CORNELL AND THE OTHER AGRICULTURAL UNIVERSITIES AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL

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PROFESSIONALS AND SCIENTISTS AND LET'S COME UP -- AND LET'S COME UP WITH

SOMETHING EVEN BETTER. BUT DON'T DO THIS TO OUR FARMERS RIGHT NOW.

THEY'RE STRUGGLING. WE HAVE FOOD SHORTAGES, STILL, ACROSS THE STATE AND

COUNTRY, AND WE'RE LOOKING AT HARMING THE PEOPLE THAT WORK THEIR TAIL

OFF TO FEED US.

AGAIN, MR. SPEAKER, I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR AND THE

CHAIR FOR THE SPIRITED DEBATE AND RESPECTFUL DEBATE. I WOULD ASK ALL MY

COLLEAGUES, LET'S DO ONE GREAT THING AT THE END OF THIS SESSION; LET'S

SUPPORT OUR FARMERS. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I WILL BE VOTING NO

ON THIS LEGISLATION.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. MILLER.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. GLICK: SURE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK YIELDS, SIR.

MR. MILLER: I -- I'D JUST LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO

FOCUS ON THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THIS BILL. CAN YOU TELL ME WHICH AGRI

-- AGRIBUSINESSES AND FARMERS WERE CONSULTED AND ASKED FOR DATA ON

HOW THIS LEGISLATION WILL IMPACT THEM ECONOMICALLY?

MS. GLICK: WELL, WE ACTUALLY DID HAVE A HEARING,

I'M GLAD YOU ASKED. NOT LAST YEAR, BUT THE YEAR BEFORE WE HAD A -- A

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DAY-LONG HEARING WITH A WIDE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS, MANY OF WHOM

WERE FROM AGRICULTURE AND FROM SEED MANUFACTURERS, AND SOME WERE

INDIVIDUALS THAT PROVIDE UNTREATED SEEDS AND THOSE THAT PROVIDE TREATED

SEEDS. AND SO THERE WAS A DISCUSSION. THERE HAS CONTINUED TO BE

CONVERSATIONS THROUGH -- WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH AG AND

MARKETS, WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS FROM CORNELL. AND WE

HAVE LOOKED AT A LOT OF DIFFERENT STUDIES, INCLUDING SOME FROM CANADA

WHERE THEY HAVE BANNED IT AND NOT SEEN A DIMINUTION OF YIELD. SO

WE'RE TRYING TO LOOK ACROSS THE SPECTRUM. WE DID HEAR CONCERNS ABOUT

FEELING THAT THERE WAS -- THAT IT WAS GONNA HAPPEN TOO SOON, EVEN

THOUGH AT THE TIME I FELT THAT, YOU KNOW, THREE YEARS WAS NOT TOO SHORT A

TIME. WE AGREED TO MOVE IT OUT ANOTHER YEAR.

MR. MILLER: SO --

MS. GLICK: AND WE'VE MADE THE -- WELL, SOME OF

THE CONCERNS HAD TO DO ABOUT THE AVAILABILITY OF THE SEEDS THAT WOULD

BE UNTREATED, AND WE THINK WE'VE TRIED TO ADDRESS THAT.

MR. MILLER: OKAY. SO HAS THERE BEEN ENOUGH

TIME TO TRULY STUDY THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THIS AND CREATE ENOUGH --

YOU KNOW, A LARGE ENOUGH DATA POOL TO, YOU KNOW, COME UP WITH A,

YOU KNOW, A GOOD -- GOOD RESULT ON -- ON THIS STUDY? I REALLY DON'T FEEL

THERE HAS. I THINK THIS BILL HAS BEEN RUSHED -- RUSHED THROUGH, YOU

KNOW, PRETTY QUICK.

MS. GLICK: THE EUROPEAN -- THE EUROPEAN UNION

BANNED THIS TEN YEARS AGO AND HAS NOT SEE A DIMINUTION. PEOPLE THERE

ARE STILL EATING. AND I WILL POINT OUT TO YOU, NO POLLINATORS, NO FOOD,

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EITHER.

MR. MILLER: BUT I GUESS FROM THE EUROPEAN

STOPPAGE OF -- OF THE NEONICS, HAVE THEY SEEN A -- A RISE IN THE -- IN THE

POLLINATORS? HAVE THEY SEEN COLONY DECLINE GONE DOWN? HAVE THOSE

REPORTS BEEN STUDIED HERE IN THE U.S.? I -- YOU KNOW, I REALLY BELIEVE

THEY PROBABLY HAVE, AND -- AND -- AND IF, YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS A

SHARP DROP IN, YOU KNOW, IN -- IN COLONY DECLINE I'M SURE THE EPA

WOULD HAVE BANNED NEONICS LONG -- LONG BEFORE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE --

WE HAVE THIS DISCUSSION HERE IN NEW YORK.

YOU KNOW, A SECOND QUESTION. TURF GRASS MANAGERS

USE NEONICS TO CONTROL PESTS. ONE PEST IN PARTICULAR IS KNOWN AS THE --

AS THE WHITE GRUB. ACCORDING TO A STUDY DONE BY CORNELL, THERE IS NO

PRACTICAL ALTERNATIVE PREVENTATIVE TREATMENT FOR THE WHITE -- WHITE GRUB

PEST. WHAT WILL THE FISCAL IMPACT BE ON GOLF COURSES AND OTHER

INDUSTRIES THAT RELY ON THE -- ON TURF GRASS?

MS. GLICK: WELL, THERE IS AN EXEMPTION FOR

AGRICULTURAL TURF GRASS IN THE BILL AS IT -- AS IT IS BEFORE US.

MR. MILLER: OKAY. SO THERE'S BEEN AN -- YOU

KNOW, SO THE AGRI -- SO THE EXEMPTION IS -- IS EXACTLY WHAT? YOU

KNOW, HOW IS THAT GOING TO BE DETERMINED?

MS. GLICK: I'M SORRY?

MR. MILLER: I SAID HOW IS THAT EXEMPTION

DETERMINED?

MS. GLICK: IT'S JUST -- IT'S DETERMINED BY IF IT'S A SOD

FARM. AN AGRICULTURAL TURF GRASS IS BASICALLY SOD FARMS, AND --

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MR. MILLER: WELL, SOD FARMS IS GOLF COURSES. YOU

KNOW, WHEN I CAN -- YOU KNOW -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S 741 GOLF COURSES IN

NEW YORK STATE AND, YOU KNOW, A TOTAL OF 16.4 MILLION ROUNDS OF GOLF

ARE PLAYED ANNUALLY, YOU KNOW, IN 2022. I HAVEN'T DONE THE MATH, BUT

IF -- IF NEONICS AREN'T AVAILABLE TO -- TO TAKE CARE OF THIS -- THIS PEST, YOU

KNOW, WE COULD BE AFFECTING NOT ONLY THE TURF INDUSTRY BUT, YOU KNOW,

OUR GOLF -- GOLF INDUSTRY HERE IN NEW YORK.

A THIRD QUESTION FOR YOU REAL QUICK. HAVE SPECIFIC REG

-- REGULATIONS BEEN DEVELOPED THAT WILL GUIDE COMMISSIONERS TO

PUBLISH THE WRITTEN DIRECTIVE FOR A TEMPORARY SUSPENSION FOR THE

UPCOMING YEAR?

MS. GLICK: IT WILL --

(PAUSE)

OKAY. WE MOVED OUT THE EFFECTIVE DATE FOR THE BAN,

IN THAT WE INCLUDED THE REQUIREMENT FOR -- AND I DON'T WANT TO READ THE

WRONG THING. SO, THE COMMISSIONER, IN CONSULTATION WITH THE -- THIS IS

THE DEC COMMISSIONER -- IN CONSULTATION WITH THE COMMISSIONER OF

AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS SHALL PUBLISH A WRITTEN ORDER ON OR BEFORE

OCTOBER 1ST THE NEXT SUCCEEDING DATE UPON WHICH IT -- IT SHALL BECOME

LAW. I'M SORRY, I CAN'T -- I'VE MADE NOTES. BUT IT DOES OBSCURE THE

ACTUAL LANGUAGE. UPON WHICH IT SHALL BECOME LAW, SO -- AND REEVALUATE

ANY DETERMINATION ON AN ANNUAL BASIS. SO THE -- THE BAN DOES NOT GO

INTO EFFECT UNTIL JANUARY OF 2027, SO IN 2026, IN 20 -- OCTOBER OF 2026

THE COMMISSIONER WOULD, IN CONSULTATION WITH THE COMMISSIONER OF

AG AND MARKETS, PRODUCE A WRITTEN -- IT DOES SAY A WRITTEN DOCUMENT.

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MR. MILLER: DOCUMENT OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO

THIS, OKAY. SO AGAIN --

MS. GLICK: WELL, AND -- AND REGS WILL BE AVAILABLE

BEFORE THAT, BUT THIS IS THE -- THE COMMISSIONER IS INDICATING THAT SEEDS

-- THAT THE SEEDS ARE AVAILABLE, THAT THE SUPPLY IS SUFFICIENT.

MR. MILLER: BUT DON'T YOU FEEL THAT THERE SHOULD

HAVE BEEN -- THAT THERE SHOULD BE A WRITTEN DIRECTIVE THAT'S GONNA TO

EXPLAIN HOW THIS TEMPORARY SUSPENSION WILL BE -- BE ROLLED OUT ON --

ON, YOU KNOW, ON HOW THE ECONOMIC IMPACT'S GOING TO BE DETERMINED?

MS. GLICK: WELL, I -- I --

MR. MILLER: HOW THE SCOUTING'S GONNA BE

DETERMINED ON THE FIELDS, HOW THE FARMERS ARE GOING TO REPORT? YOU

KNOW, WE'RE KIND OF -- WE'RE KIND OF BEHIND -- YOU KNOW, I WAS AN

ENGINEER ALL MY CAREER, AND IF I PUT OUT A PROJECT LIKE THIS I THINK I'D BE

TOLD TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND START AGAIN BECAUSE THE WHOLE

THING ISN'T ROLLED OUT AND WE DON'T KNOW WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH IT.

MS. GLICK: WELL, I -- WHAT -- WHAT I DID SAY WAS

THAT REGS WOULD BE FORTHCOMING WELL BEFORE THAT, AND THAT'S AN -- IT'S AN

EXTRA YEAR BEFORE THE BAN GOES INTO EFFECT. BUT THAT IS 2027 AND WE'RE

IN 2023, ALTHOUGH TONIGHT IT FEELS LIKE WE MIGHT BE APPROACHING 2024

SOONER. THE -- SO OVER THE NEXT YEAR THERE WILL BE REGS PROMULGATED BY

THE DEPARTMENT ABOUT HOW THE IMPLEMENTATION WILL GO FORWARD. SO

YES, THERE WILL BE GUIDANCE VIA THE REGS WELL BEFORE THE BAN GOES INTO

EFFECT. BUT WHAT I WAS READING WAS THE ANNUAL REQUIREMENT FOR THE

COMMISSIONER TO -- WHICH HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE -- THE LEGISLATION TO

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CONFIRM THAT THERE IS SUFFICIENT AVAILABILITY AND THAT THERE IS NOT AN -- AN

ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCY, IN ADVANCE OF PEOPLE BUYING -- THEY BUY

THEIR SEEDS GENERALLY IN OCTOBER FOR PLANTING IN THE SPRING.

MR. MILLER: MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MILLER: SINCE WE LAST DEBATED THE ORIGINAL

BILL, I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN A FEW LENGTHY ECONOMIC STUDIES

DONE AND TO HAVE GIVEN FARMERS, AGRIBUSINESS AND ALL INDUSTRY

IMPACTED BY THIS BILL A FAIR SEAT AT THE TABLE TO VOICE THEIR CONCERNS.

BACK TO THE CORN AND SOYBEAN FARMERS. IF SEEDS ARE

NOT TREATED, THERE WILL BE A DECLINE IN OUTPUT. ROUGHLY 75 PERCENT OF

CORN AND SOYBEANS USED IN NEW YORK ARE TREATED WITH NEONICOTINOIDS

BECAUSE THEY ARE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE AND NO OTHER VIABLE ALTERNATIVES HAVE

BEEN PROVEN TO WORK AS WELL. WE ARE CREATING LAWS THAT WILL AFFECT 75

PERCENT OF THE INDUSTRY WITHOUT HAVING OPPORTUNITIES FOR 75 PERCENT OF

-- OF THE INDUSTRY TO VOICE THEIR CONCERNS. CORNELL STUDIES STATES ABOUT

SUBSTITUTES. THE LIKELY SUBSTITUTE WILL REQUIRE ADDITIONAL CROP SCOUTING

AND PESTICIDE APPLICATIONS. WE ESTIMATE ADDITIONAL GROWER COSTS USING

MEAN VALUES FROM RECENT STATE EXTENSION SURVEYS OF FARM CUSTOM WORK

RATES - AND I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU THOSE - (INAUDIBLE) INSECTICIDES

WE ASSUME ADDITIONAL COST OF $12.17 PER 100 ACRES. THAT'S $4.93 PER

ACRE FOR SCOUTING AND $21.16 PER 100 ACRES FOR APPLICATION FOR

PREVENTATIVE INSECTICIDES APPLIED TO THE SOIL AND PLANTING. WE ASSUME

ADDITIONAL PLANTING COSTS OF $3.05 PER 100 ACRES AT THAT POINT. THIS

WILL BE CHALLENGING FOR -- FOR SOME OF OUR NEW YORK FARMERS TO ABSORB

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THESE COSTS. OUR FARM COMMUNITIES ALREADY ARE WORKING ON A SMALL

MARGIN, AND WE'RE GONNA PUT THEM -- WE MAY PUT THEM IN ANOTHER

ECONOMIC SITUATION. AND I REALLY DON'T THINK WE NEED TO GO THERE AFTER

-- AFTER THE THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE TO OUR FARM COMMUNITY WITH THE --

WITH THE OVERTIME LABOR REQUIREMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. WE'RE JUST

PUTTING ONE MORE -- ONE MORE POINT ON OUR FARMING COMMUNITY. ONCE

ECONOMIC AND OUTPUT IMPACT IS DETERMINED IT IS TOO LATE, AND FARMERS'

BOTTOM LINE IS ALREADY GREATLY AFFECTED AS WELL AS OUR FOOD SUPPLY. IN

REGARDS TO THE TURF GRASS-RELATED INDUSTRIES, THEY CANNOT WAIT TO

EXPERIMENT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS BECAUSE -- BECAUSE AT THAT POINT THEIR

BUSINESS WOULD BE UNSUSTAINABLE. WE NEED TO TAKE MORE TIME TO HEAR

FROM THE AGRIBUSINESS AND CORN AND SOYBEAN FARMERS IN NEW YORK

STATE. WE ALSO NEED TO ALLOW TIME FOR MORE STUDIES TO BE DONE SO

THEY'RE NOT CONTRADICTORY. LAST TIME WE DEBATED THIS BILL I ASKED HOW

MANY PESTICIDES APPLICATORS ARE THERE HERE IN THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY, AND

THERE ARE ONLY A FEW OF US. WE SHOULD BE HEARING MORE FROM PESTICIDE

APPLICATORS. WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH -- WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE

LENGTHY PROCESS THAT REQUIRES TAKING AN EXAM, RECERTIFICATION PROCESS,

ALONG WITH EXTENSIVE RECORDKEEPING.

NEONICOTINOIDS ARE A CLASS OF INSECTICIDES THAT

UNDERGO CAREFUL SCIENTIFIC REVIEW FOR HUMAN AND ENVIRONMENTAL SAFETY

BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, THE USDA, DEC AND THE NEW

YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH. SEEDS TREATED WITH NEONICOTINOIDS

ARE WELL-REGULATED BY THESE AGENCIES IN ORDER TO ACCURATE -- ACCURATELY

CONTROL TARGETED -- TARGETED PESTS WHILE MINIMIZING THE IMPACTS ON

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SURROUNDING ECOSYSTEMS AND FARM WORKERS.

WITH THE LACK OF TIME AND INSUFFICIENT DATA POOLS

PRESENTED FOR THIS NEW BILL AND THE FRUSTRATIONS THAT WE'VE HEARD FROM

FARMERS AND AGRIBUSINESSES IN NEW YORK STATE, I THINK WE NEED TO

DEFER THIS LEGISLATION UNTIL OUR FARMERS AND AGRIBUSINESSES HAVE -- HAVE

INPUT THAT IS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. I URGE ALL MY COLL -- COLLEAGUES

TO VOTE NO ON THIS BILL AND TO LISTEN TO THE FARMERS AND THE

AGRIBUSINESSES IN THEIR ASSEMBLY DISTRICTS. WE SHOULD NOT PASS

SCIENTIFIC LEGISLATION WITHOUT DETAILED PEER REVIEW STUDIES.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. MANKTELOW.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. GLICK: FOR YOU, MR. MANKTELOW, ALWAYS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. GLICK WILL YIELD

TO YOU, SIR.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK -- THANK YOU VERY

MUCH, MS. GLICK. I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU A FEW QUICK QUESTIONS. I

KNOW WE'RE GETTING LATE IN THE EVENING. REALLY QUICK, I SEE IN THE NEW

BILL THAT GOES TO 2027, THE PREVIOUS BILL WE DID A FEW WEEKS AGO WAS

2026 AND THE ONE WE DID BACK IN '21 WAS 2025. AND I'M ASSUMING THAT

NUMBER'S INCREASING BECAUSE WE KNOW WE CAN'T GET THERE AS QUICKLY AS

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WE WANTED TO IN THE BEGINNING; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: NO. ACTUALLY, I THINK IT WAS BECAUSE

WE HEARD FROM -- CONTRARY TO WHAT WAS ASSERTED BEFORE, WE DID HAVE

CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE AND WE DID HEAR, AND WE ADJUSTED TO MEET A

CONCERN. AND SO WE MOVED THE DATE FURTHER OUT TO TRY TO ACCOMMODATE

WHILE KEEPING IN MIND THAT FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THESE ARE CHEMICALS

THAT HAVE BEEN IN USE FOR MAYBE AROUND THE LAST 30 YEARS OR SO, AND

DURING THAT TIME PERIOD WE'VE SEEN THIS DECLINE, SERIOUS DECLINE IN

POLLINATORS AND THERE IS OVER 1,000 PEER-REVIEW STUDIES THAT INDICATE

THAT THIS IS AT LEAST PART OF IT. SO WE -- YOU KNOW, I GREW UP WATCHING

TV AND HEARING BETTER LIVING THROUGH CHEMISTRY. BUT SOMETIMES WE

HAVE FOUND THAT COMPOUNDS THAT WE THOUGHT WERE SAFE 20, 30 YEARS

LATER WE FIND OUT HAVE A DOWNSIDE THAT WASN'T IMMEDIATELY EVIDENT,

AND THAT IS WHERE WE ARE WITH NEONICS.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU. MUCH LIKE BABY

POWDER, WE KNOW IT'S NOT AS SAFE AS IT USED TO BE. SO ON SECTION 1,

SUBSECTION 2, LINE 9 AND 10 AND FOLLOWING IT SAYS, THE COMMISSIONER

MAY BE BY WRITTEN ORDER TEMPORARILY SUSPEND THE PROVISIONS OF THIS

PARAGRAPH AT ANY TIME BASED ON THE COMMISSIONER'S DETERMINATION

AFTER CONSULTING WITH THE COMMISSIONER OF AG AND MARKETS THAT THERE

IS AN INSUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF COMMERCIALLY-AVAILABLE SEED TO ADEQUATELY

SUPPLY THE AGRICULTURAL MARKET. HOW ARE THEY GOING TO DETERMINE THIS?

ARE THEY GONNA TALK TO FARMERS TO SEE WHAT'S OUT THERE? ARE -- ARE THEY

-- HOW ARE THEY GOING TO GET THERE?

MS. GLICK: WELL, I PRESUME WE'RE LEAVING IT UP TO

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THEM TO DEVELOP REGS, BUT I PRESUME THAT THEY ARE GOING TO SURVEY SEED

MANUFACTURERS.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY.

MS. GLICK: THAT'S WHAT I WOULD DO.

MR. MANKTELOW: YEAH. THANK YOU.

MS. GLICK: YOU DIDN'T ASK ME, BUT THAT WOULD BE

MY SUGGESTION.

MR. MANKTELOW: AND I THINK YOU WOULD DO A

GOOD JOB AT IT. SO -- SO TO FURTHER GO ON TO THAT, I KNOW YOU TOUCHED ON

THAT A LITTLE BIT A WHILE AGO, AND THEY HAVE TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION.

THEN THE SECOND PART OF THAT IS THE PURCHASE OF THE SEED THAT -- THAT

COMPLIES WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PARAGRAPH WHICH RESULT IN UNDUE

FINANCIAL HARDSHIP TO THE AGRICULTURAL PRODUCER. THAT'S ANOTHER WAY

THAT THE -- BOTH COMMISSIONERS COULD SUSPEND THIS PARAGRAPH, CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: CORRECT.

MR. MANKTELOW: THAT'S LINE 16, 17 AND 18,

ROUGHLY. WHO -- WHO -- WHO DETERMINES THE FINANCIAL HARDSHIP AND

HOW DO WE GET TO THAT NUMBER?

MS. GLICK: WELL, I -- I THINK OBVIOUSLY WHAT IT SAYS

IS THAT THE TWO COMMISSIONERS WILL BE IN CONSULTATION, AND PRESUMABLY

IT WOULD BE MY HOPE THAT IT WOULD CONTINUE TO BE COMMISSIONER BALL

BECAUSE I THINK HE'S A GREAT AG AND MARKETS COMMISSIONER. AND SO I

WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD BE THEIR CONVERSATION ABOUT CONDITIONS THAT

ARE ON THE GROUND IN OCTOBER, LOOKING FORWARD. YOU KNOW, OUR WORLD

IS CHANGING. WE ARE CHANGING FASTER THAN WE ARE MAYBE WILLING TO

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ADMIT, AND SOME OF THAT IS ABOUT EXTREMES IN CLIMATE CHANGE THAT,

FRANKLY, I DIDN'T THINK WOULD HAPPEN THIS QUICKLY. AND SO I ASSUME

THAT THEY WILL TRY, AND I -- AND I HAVE GREAT FAITH IN THEM. I THINK THAT

THEY WILL ALSO BE TALKING TO THE SCIENTISTS THAT WORK AT THE AGENCIES.

THEY'RE NOT JUST ALONE IN THEIR -- IN THEIR OFFICES, THEY HAVE FOLKS WHO

ARE VERY MUCH IN TOUCH WITH PEOPLE ON THE GROUND AND SCIENTISTS, AND

THEY WORK CLOSELY WITH THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AT OUR EXCELLENT

COLLEGES THAT, WHETHER IT'S CORNELL OR PAUL SMITH, THESE ARE THE FOLKS

THEY'LL TALK TO.

MR. MANKTELOW: I AGREE, THEY DO WORK CLOSELY.

BUT THE COLLEGES DON'T WORK WITH THE FARMERS AND THE AGRICULTURAL

PRODUCERS THAT WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE THE FINANCIAL HARDSHIPS. THE

COLLEGES REALLY DON'T KNOW THAT. MAYBE SOME OF THEM DO --

MS. GLICK: WELL, I SAID -- IF YOU'LL JUST ALLOW ME TO

INTERRUPT YOU --

MR. MANKTELOW: SURE.

MS. GLICK: -- FOR ONE SECOND. I DID SAY THAT THEY

WOULD, BUT THAT IT WAS THE COMMISSIONER OF AG AND THEIR TEAM I THINK

IS VERY CLOSE TO WORKING WITH THE FARM COMMUNITY.

MR. MANKTELOW: AND FURTHER DOWN IN THE NEXT

FEW SENTENCES, LINE 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 AND FOLLOWING, WE TALK ABOUT THE

OCTOBER DATE, FIRST OF THE YEAR PRECEDING TO THE NEXT GROWING SEASON,

CORRECT?

MS. GLICK: YES.

MR. MANKTELOW: AND I WAS JUST WONDERING

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REALLY QUICK, WHO PICKED THE OCTOBER DATE?

MS. GLICK: WELL, I THINK IT WAS THE RESULT OF OUR

CONVERSATIONS WHERE OUT OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS, AND IT PROBABLY ALSO WAS

MENTIONED DURING THE HEARING, THAT THE TIME THAT FARMERS ARE BUYING

THEIR SEED IS IN THE FALL AND OCTOBER FOR THE FOLLOWING SPRING. SO I

THINK THAT'S WHERE THE -- THE TIME FRAME CAME FROM.

MR. MANKTELOW: YEAH. I -- I SOMEWHAT AGREE

WITH THAT AND I UNDERSTAND HOW THEY WOULD'VE -- HOW YOU WOULD HAVE

THOUGHT THAT AND HOW THAT -- THAT CAME TO -- TO BE, BECAUSE REALLY WHAT

HAPPENS IS SEED CORN IS HARVESTED ACTUALLY IN LATE AUGUST, SEPTEMBER,

FIRST PART OF OCTOBER OUT IN THE MIDWEST, KIND OF LIKE SWEET CORN IS

HARVESTED HERE MECHANICALLY. AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY HARVEST THE

CORN IN EARS AND THEY LEAVE THE HUSKS ON THERE AND THEY TAKE IT AND

DRIVE THE CORN DOWN THERE. WHAT HAPPENS AROUND AUGUST, SEPTEMBER,

OCTOBER FROM THE FARMER'S STANDPOINT IS THAT'S WHEN WE REACH OUT TO THE

SEED COMPANIES AND -- AND PUT OUR ORDERS IN SAYING THIS IS THE BRAND

WE'D LIKE, THIS IS THE DAY LENGTH WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AS WELL, AND THIS

WILL WORK GOOD IN THIS SOIL CONDITION AND THIS ONE WILL WORK IN THAT SOIL

CONDITION. SO WE ACTUALLY DO PUT THE ORDERS IN, BUT MUCH TO OUR

SAGRINGE [SIC] -- CHAGRIN, AS FARMERS, WE REALLY DON'T FIND OUT WHAT

WE'RE GOING TO GET UNTIL USUALLY JANUARY, FEBRUARY, EARLY MARCH, SO WE

REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT SEED'S GONNA BE. AND MY CONCERN HERE FOR

BOTH COMMISSIONERS IS WE'RE ASKING THEM TO MAKE A DECISION BACK IN

OCTOBER, AND -- AND I REALLY DON'T THINK THEY'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE A GOOD

DECISION, ONLY BECAUSE THE MARKETS WON'T BE THERE AND THEY -- THEY

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REALLY WON'T KNOW WHAT CORN SEED IS AVAILABLE.

MS. GLICK: WELL, I -- I WOULD SAY THAT IT CAME OUT

OF CONVERSATIONS BOTH IN THIS HOUSE AND THE OTHER HOUSE, AND THAT DATE

WAS THE DATE THAT HAD BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A DATE BY WHICH THEY -- THEY

NEEDED TO BE ABLE TO PLACE ORDERS. SO THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, CHANGING

THE GOAL POST AT THIS POINT IS --

MR. MANKTELOW: NO, I -- I TOTALLY AGREE AND

THAT'S TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE FROM A LAYPERSON. I MEAN, I'M A FARMER.

MS. GLICK: WELL, WE GOT THIS FROM -- FROM YOU AND

FROM OTHERS WHO, AS A -- OUT OF THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WERE HAD.

MR. MANKTELOW: YES.

MS. GLICK: AND PRESUMABLY THERE WERE, AS I RECALL,

AT THAT HEARING WE DID ASK A SEED PRODUCER WHO CURRENTLY PRODUCES

SEED THAT IS NON-TREATED, AND THEIR FEELING AT THE TIME WAS THAT THERE

WOULD -- THAT THERE HAS NOT BEEN A PROBLEM WITH ACCESS TO UNTREATED

SEEDS. NOW, YOU COULD SAY THAT, WELL, THAT AT THE TIME WAS A LIMITED

NUMBER OF PEOPLE SEEKING THOSE, BUT NOW I BELIEVE ONCE THESE

REGULATIONS ARE OUT, WE ARE A GOOD MARKET AND THE MARKETPLACE WILL

RESPOND AND I THINK THE SEED SELLERS ARE GOING TO WANT TO SELL INTO NEW

YORK AND THERE WILL BE SUFFICIENT SEED AVAILABLE, AND WE WILL KNOW THAT

BY OCTOBER EVEN IF THE SEEDS AREN'T DELIVERED UNTIL A COUPLE OF MONTHS

LATER.

MR. MANKTELOW: ALL RIGHT. WELL, MS. GLICK, I

APPRECIATE YOUR -- YOUR ANSWERS AND TAKING THE TIME TO TALK WITH ME.

AND I -- I DO RESPECT YOUR -- YOUR POSITION AS WELL IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE.

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SO THANK YOU AGAIN.

MS. GLICK: THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MR. MANKTELOW: AND, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL,

PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO, KNOWING WHAT THE SPONSOR

JUST SAID TO ME AND KNOWING WHAT GOES ON OUT THERE, I -- I'D JUST LIKE TO

SHARE A FEW MORE THINGS. YOU KNOW, FARMERS ARE KIND OF LIKE -- I -- I

WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO COME UP WITH AN ANALOGY OF SEED CORN

OR SOYBEAN SEED OR WHEAT SEED AND -- AND PUT THAT INTO REALTIME AND

INTO REAL LIFE, AND -- AND I GOT THINKING ABOUT PRETTY SIMPLE. WHEN A --

WHEN A BABY COMES TO TERM, I LOOKED AT IT LIKE THAT, WHEN THE SPERM

HITS THE EGG THAT'S WHEN THE -- THE BABY STARTS. AND WHEN THE SEED HITS

THE SOIL AND THAT MOISTURE HITS THERE, THAT'S WHEN THAT SEED STARTS. AND

OUR GOALS AS FARMERS, MR. SPEAKER, IS TO MAKE SURE EACH AND EVERY

SINGLE ONE OF THOSE SEEDS THAT WE PUT IN THE GROUND WERE AT THE SAME

DEPTH, THAT THEY'RE IN MOISTURE AND THEY ALL COME UP TOGETHER. BECAUSE

FOR US, EVERY SINGLE PLANT HAS TO BE A HEALTHY PLANT. IF ONE PLANT COMES

UP TWO OR THREE DAYS LATER, IT'S GOING TO TURN INTO A WEED BECAUSE THE

OTHER PLANTS WILL OUTGROW IT AND THAT -- THAT PLANT WILL JUST BASICALLY

SUCK UP A LITTLE WATER, SUCK UP A LITTLE FERTILIZER AND NOT BE A HEALTHY

FRUIT-BEARING PLANT, AND THAT'S WHEN WE START LOSING YIELD. AND -- AND

THAT GOES BACK TO WHY SEED TREATER IS SO IMPORTANT. AND THIS IS A

PERFECT YEAR TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

THIS YEAR WHAT WE SAW HERE IN THE NORTHEAST WAS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

EARLY ON IT WAS WET, IT WAS COLD, WE HAD A LOT OF FROST, AND THE SEEDS SAT

IN THAT VERY HIGH-MOISTURE SOIL FOR WEEKS ON END BEFORE IT ACTUALLY

SPROUTED. AND THAT'S WHERE THAT SEED TREATER PROTECTS THAT -- PROTECTS

THAT SEED JUST LIKE A MOTHER PROTECTS THAT BABY. AND THEN WE WENT INTO

A -- A WEATHER PATTERN OF ABSOLUTELY HOT, DRY WEATHER WITH NO WATER,

AND THE SEEDS THAT WERE PLANTED LATER ON IN THE PLANTING SEASON, THEY

WERE REALLY JUST SITTING IN THE GROUND, AND SOME OF THEM STILL ARE. AND

AGAIN, THAT'S WHY WE PUT THAT ASSURANCE -- REASSURANCE THAT WE'RE GONNA

BE ABLE TO HAVE THEM SEEDS COME UP TOGETHER AND GIVE THOSE PLANTS THE

BEST POSSIBLE CHANCE TO PRODUCE AS MUCH HEALTHY FOOD WHETHER IT'S FOR

DAIRY, WHETHER IT'S FOR FOOD CONSUMPTION, FOR LIVESTOCK, FOR -- FOR

POULTRY, WE WANT TO DO THE VERY BEST AND MAKE THINGS THE VERY SAFE AS

WE CAN FOR EVERYBODY HERE IN NEW YORK STATE, ESPECIALLY AFTER GOING

THROUGH WHAT WE SAW IN COVID. SO THAT -- THAT'S REALLY WHY WE DO IT.

AND I'M ALL FOR OTHER OPTIONS OUT THERE. I JUST DON'T WANT US TO PUSH IT

SO FAST THAT WE DON'T HAVE THOSE GOOD OPTIONS. AND I -- AND I KNOW

BOTH OF THE PRIOR SPEAKERS, MY -- MY COUNTERPARTS HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY

SAID THAT THOSE ARE OUR CONCERNS, THE FINANCIAL CONCERNS.

SO I TOOK ANOTHER QUICK VIEW OF THIS, LOOKING AT

POLLINATORS AND LOOKING AT BIRDS. SO I ACTUALLY WENT OUT AND TALKED TO

SOME -- SOME FARMERS AND I ASKED THEM HOW MANY BIRDS THEY ACTUALLY

SAW IN THEIR FIELDS OVER THE YEARS, AND OTHER THAN ONE GETTING HIT BY A

CAR THEY REALLY DON'T SEE THEM OUT THERE. SO I DID A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH

ABOUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH POLLINATORS, AND -- AND THERE'S OTHER

THINGS THAT ARE REALLY AFFECTING THE POLLINATORS. IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE

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FARMING AS IT IS SUBURBAN GROWTH AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE CITIES

AND THE SUBURBAN AREAS. OUR POLLINATORS NEED TO HAVE A HABITAT THAT IS

BEE-FRIENDLY, AND WE'RE TAKING THOSE AWAY. THEY NEED GRASSLANDS, THEY

NEED COASTAL AREAS, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEY NEED GOOD QUALITY

FARMLAND. AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH THE EXPANSION OF SOLAR PROJECTS

ARE FARMERS MOVING OUT, WIND PROJECTS. ANYTHING THAT TAKES AWAY

FROM OUR FARMLAND, WE'RE SEEING THAT HABITAT GO AWAY. AND IT TAKES ME

BACK TO A SOLAR PROJECT IN MY DISTRICT -- WELL, MY PRIOR DISTRICT UP UNTIL

LAST YEAR -- WHERE THEY CAME IN AND THEY CLEAR-CUT 40 ACRES OF WOODS,

AND PART OF THAT HABITAT WAS GONE. AND I DID A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH ON

SOLAR PANELS JUST TO SEE HOW THEY WILL AFFECT THE BIRDS AND THE BEES.

AND WHAT I'VE SEEN IS THEY DON'T REALLY AFFECT BEES YET QUITE SO MUCH,

BUT THEY DEFINITELY AFFECT THE BIRDS. AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH THE

BIRDS NOW WITH SO MANY NEW PANELS IS THE BIRDS WILL FLY OVER AND THEY

ACTUALLY THINK THAT THE TOPS OF THE PANELS AS THEY FLY OVER IS ACTUALLY A

MOVING STREAM. SO WHAT THEY'LL DO IS THEY'LL DIVE IN, THINKING THAT'S

WATER, AND THEY'LL EITHER KILL THEMSELVES OR HURT THEMSELVES SO BADLY,

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING OUT THERE. SO THOSE ARE OTHER CONCERNS

THAT I THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT IN CONJUNCTION WITH AGRICULTURE.

WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER AS A TEAM TO MAKE THIS WORK FOR EVERYONE.

AND I KNOW AS A FARMER, AS AN AGRICULTURAL PRODUCER, MORE

IMPORTANTLY, AS A PERSON THAT WANTS TO PROTECT OUR SOIL, OUR HABITAT, OUR

FAMILIES, OUR LIVES, AGAIN, I SAID THIS EARLIER IN THE DEBATE BEFORE THAT IF

I TRULY THOUGHT THAT FARMERS WEREN'T ABLE TO DO THE THINGS SAFELY, I

WOULD BE PUSHING FOR THIS EVEN HARDER. WE ARE VERY, VERY SMART WHEN

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IT COMES TO MAKING THINGS HAPPEN HERE IN NEW YORK STATE. WE CAN DO

THIS, WORKING TOGETHER. I DO APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR MOVING THE DATE

OUT. I DO APPRECIATE THAT THE SPONSOR'S INVOLVING THE COMMISSIONER OF

AG AS WELL AS THE COMMISSIONER OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION. WE

NEED TO WORK TOGETHER, AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT.

SO, MS. GLICK, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING.

MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU. I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THIS BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO

SEE MORE TO IT, BUT I THINK WE CAN MAKE THIS WORK FOR ALL OF US. THANK

YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MS. GIGLIO.

(PAUSE)

MS. GIGLIO: HELLO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: HELLO. HOW ARE YOU?

MS. GIGLIO: I'M GOOD, THANK YOU. HOW ARE YOU ON

THIS FINE EVENING?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE YOU READY TO ASK

QUESTIONS?

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, AND THANK

YOU TO OUR SPONSOR OF THIS BILL. AND I WANT TO THANK YOU, I'M -- I'M

GOING TO SPEAK ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

MS. GIGLIO: I THANK YOU FOR TAKING INTO

CONSIDERATION OUR COMMENTS FROM THE LAST DEBATE, AND I THANK MY

COLLEAGUES FOR SPEAKING ABOUT THE SEEDS. I WANT TO SPEAK MORE ABOUT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE ORNAMENTAL PLANTS AND THE STRUGGLES THAT OUR ORNAMENTAL COMPANIES

ARE HAVING AND THAT OUR GOLF COURSES ARE HAVING AND THAT OUR

MUNICIPALITIES ARE HAVING WHEN IT COMES TO PESTICIDES ON BALL FIELDS.

SO, GOLF COURSES, BALL FIELDS, IF WE DON'T USE THESE NEONICS -- AND

NEONICS DO NOT KILL BEES WHEN THEY'RE USED UNDER GUIDANCE OF NEW

YORK STATE DEC, WHICH THEY'RE STRICTLY REGULATED. BUT IF THEY'RE NOT

USED AND THEY'RE TAKEN OUT OF THE SYSTEM IT'S JUST GOING TO LEAD TO MORE

SPRAYING. AND A LOT OF THESE NEONICS ARE NOT EVEN APPLIED BY SPRAYS,

THEY'RE APPLIED BY BRUSHING. AS A MATTER OF FACT, TWO-THIRDS OF THE TREES

IN OUR PARKS, OUR STATE PARKS AND IN OUR OPEN SPACES ARE HEMLOCKS, AND

THERE'S A DANGEROUS BEETLE THAT THE ONLY THING THAT CAN KILL THEM ARE

THESE NEONICS. THEN FOR THE FUTURE GOING FORWARD, HAVING 66-PLUS

VINEYARDS IN MY DISTRICT AND THE THREAT OF THE SPOTTED LANTERN FLY THAT

WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO ELIMINATE THE SPOTTED LANTERN FLY THAT COULD

AFFECT ALL OF OUR VINEYARDS AND OUR ECONOMIES. YOU KNOW, THESE -- IT

ALREADY DESTROYED THE ECONOMY IN PENNSYLVANIA. IT'S IN NEW YORK

CITY NOW, AND IT'S ON ITS WAY TO NEW YORK STATE AND TO THE SUBURBS AND

TO THE UPSTATE AND TO ALL THE FRUIT ORCHARDS AND THE VINEYARDS. SO UNTIL

WE FIND AN ALTERNATIVE THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO ELIMINATE THE SPOTTED

LANTERN FLY -- AND CORNELL RIGHT NOW IS SAYING, SEE IT, STOMP IT. THAT'S

THE MECHANISM TO GET RID OF THE SPOTTED LANTERN FLY. BUT ONE OF THESE

NEONICS THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO BAN IN NEW YORK STATE COULD BE THE

REMEDY TO STOP THIS SPOTTED LANTERN FLY FROM INVADING ALL OF OUR

VINEYARDS AND ALL OF OUR FRUIT ORCHARDS.

SO I -- I THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, YOUR

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THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION OF OUR DEBATE LAST TIME, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR

AMENDING THE BILL TO ACCOMMODATE SOME OF OUR NEEDS AND I HOPE THAT

YOU'LL CONTINUE TO TAKE WHAT MY COLLEAGUES AND I HAVE SAID TO PROTECT

OUR AGRICULTURE, TO PROTECT OUR FARMERS, TO GET RID OF THE GRUBS THAT WILL

CAUSE THE RODENTS AND WILL CAUSE THESE SPECIES FROM DESTROYING OUR

PROPERTIES, AGRICULTURAL PROPERTIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE, INCLUDING OUR

GOLF COURSES AND OUR BALL FIELDS.

SO, THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. I -- I CARE ABOUT

THE ENVIRONMENT AS MUCH AS YOU DO, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING THE

TIME TO REALLY LOOK INTO IT AND TO WORK WITH THE DEC TO COME UP WITH

AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION. NEW YORK STATE IS THE TOUGHEST STATE TO GET

THESE -- GET ANY PESTICIDES APPROVED THROUGH. THESE PESTICIDES ARE

APPLIED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE COUNTRY, AND NEW YORK STATE IS THE

TOUGHEST TO GET RID OF THESE PESTICIDES AND FERTILIZERS THAT ARE THE MOST

EFFECTIVE. AND I FEAR THAT REMOVING THESE NEONICS ARE ONLY GOING TO

CAUSE MORE CHEMICALS TO BE APPLIED, TWICE AS MUCH, THREE TIMES AS

MUCH, FOUR TIMES AS MUCH TO GET RID OF THE PESTS THAT ARE AFFECTING OUR

INDUSTRY, THE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY. SO THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER AND

THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MS.

GIGLIO.

MS. GLICK ON THE BILL.

MS. GLICK: ON THE BILL. THANK -- THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR THE DISCUSSION THIS

EVENING AND THEIR INPUT BECAUSE IT DID MAKE SOME CHANGES IN THE WAY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WE APPROACHED THE BILL. BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WE DO ALLOW

FOR THE TREATMENTS NECESSARY FOR INVASIVE SPECIES, AND I WOULD POINT

OUT THAT THERE IS -- THE PROVISIONS OF THIS PARAGRAPH SHALL NOT APPLY TO

PESTICIDE APPLICATIONS BY OR UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF A CERTIFIED

APPLICATOR FOR THE TREATMENT AGAINST INVASIVE SPECIES IN WOODY PLANTS.

SO WE DID HEAR YOU, AND THAT IS -- I MAY HAVE NEGLECTED IN MY EARLY

DESCRIPTION OF -- OF THE CHANGES THAT THAT WAS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT

WAS, IN FACT, ADDED. WE -- I KNOW THAT FARMING -- IF I EVER GET TO THE

COUNTRY ON A WEEKEND AGAIN, WHICH THIS WEEKEND IS LOOKING DIM, I

MAY BE ABLE TO SEE THE -- THE FOLKS WHO ARE FARMING. I HAVE GREAT

RESPECT FOR THEM, IT IS A TOUGH, TOUGH JOB. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT WE

KNOW THAT THE PERSISTENT NEUROTOXINS WE KEEP ADDING TO OUR

ENVIRONMENT PERSISTS IN THE GROUND, IT AFFECTS THE WATER, IT RUNS INTO THE

STREAMS. IT AFFECTS THE PLANTS SO THAT IT DOES IMPACT POLLINATORS BECAUSE

IT MOVES SYSTEMICALLY THROUGH THE PLANT. AND SO WHETHER IT IS GETTING

NECTAR OR IT IS GETTING POLLEN, IT IS INGESTING THESE NEUROTOXINS. AND WE

HAVE SEEN THIS DIMINUTION, SERIOUS DIMINUTION OF POLLINATORS, AND IT

IS -- - YOU KNOW, THE -- THE WEB OF NATURE, WE KEEP CUTTING PIECES OF IT

OUT TO OUR GREAT DETRIMENT. AND WE THOUGHT PLASTICS IN THAT MOVIE THE

-- THE GRADUATE IN 1960 OR SOMETHING, I'VE GOT ONE WORD FOR YOU,

PLASTICS, WHICH AT THE TIME SEEMED GREAT. BUT IF WE DON'T STOP USING

THEM TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE, YOU KNOW, AND THE DEBRIS THAT'S IN OUR

OCEANS, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO WALK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO BECAUSE THE WATER

WILL BE -- IS SO FILLED WITH PLASTIC DEBRIS.

SO I APPRECIATE THE PASSION THAT MY COLLEAGUES HAVE,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

BUT I'M NOT UNAWARE OF OR SYMPATHETIC TO THE HARD WORK THAT IS DONE BY

OUR FARMERS. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF HARD WORK THAT IS DONE BY NATURE, AND

WE CAN'T KEEP UPTURNING ITS CYCLES AND ITS ABILITY TO HELP US PRODUCE

FOOD. SO I THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR THE DISCUSSION AND LOOK FORWARD TO

A VERY SOLID VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS MEASURE.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL.

I'M SORRY. A PARTY VOTE HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. THOSE WHO WISH TO SUPPORT

CAN VOTE YES ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU.

MS. SOLAGES.

MS. SOLAGES: THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE

VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE AGAINST THIS

MEASURE CAN COME TO THE CHAMBER AND CAST THEIR VOTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. TAGUE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN

MY VOTE, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: PLEASE.

MR. TAGUE: I JUST WANTED TO REITERATE TO MY

COLLEAGUES HOW IMPORTANT THIS VOTE IS TONIGHT. AND I WANT TO MAKE

SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE AGAINST THIS BILL

PASSING: NEW YORK STATE CHEMISTRY COUNCIL, NEW YORK STATE

AGRI-BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, NEW YORK CORN SOYBEAN GROWERS

ASSOCIATION, NFIB, NORTHEAST AGRI-BUSINESS AND FEED ALLIANCE,

NORTHEAST DAIRY PRODUCERS ASSOCIATION, AND NEW YORK FARM BUREAU.

AND THE LIST GOES ON.

LEGISLATIVE PROHIBITIONS OF PESTICIDE PRODUCTS THAT

IGNORE THE REGULATORY AUTHORITY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL

CONSERVATION CAN HAVE CRITICAL UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES FOR

AGRICULTURE AND THE ENVIRONMENT. MORE IMPORTANTLY, THIS COULD HAVE

AN IMPACT ON THE AVAILABILITY OF LOCALLY GROWN FRESH FOOD THAT FARMERS

IN NEW YORK PROVIDE TO OUR COMMUNITIES. MANY COMMUNITIES

CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE WITH A LACK OF FRESH FOOD ACCESS, AND THIS

PROHIBITION WOULD FURTHER EXACERBATE THE PROBLEM. MY FRIENDS, WE

WORKED BI-PARTISANLY TO PASS THE NOURISH NY PROGRAM DURING THE

COVID CRISIS AND AFTER, WHERE PEOPLE IN THE CITY, IN QUEENS

ESPECIALLY, WERE STARVING. NEW YORK FARMERS CAME THROUGH AND WE, AS

LEGISLATORS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, WORKED TOGETHER TO DO THE RIGHT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THING.

MY FRIENDS, THIS PROHIBITION WILL HURT NEW YORK

FARMERS. IT WILL NOT ALLOW THEM TO DO THEIR JOBS AND PRODUCE THE FOOD

THAT IS NEEDED FOR THOSE THAT NEED IT. MR. SPEAKER, I AGAIN, I PLEAD, I

PLEAD WITH MY FELLOW LEGISLATORS, DO NOT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU,

VOTE NO. JOIN ME AND VOTE NO FOR NEW YORK STATE FARMERS. THANK

YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. TAGUE IN THE

NEGATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

(APPLAUSE)

PAGE 5, RULES REPORT NO. 800, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07632-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 800, REYES, WOERNER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW,

THE EDUCATION LAW, THE TOWN LAW AND THE NEW YORK CITY CHARTER, IN

RELATION TO ESTABLISHING EARLY MAIL VOTING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

REYES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED AND AN EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED, MS. REYES.

MS. REYES: THIS BILL ESTABLISHES A NEW PROCESS IN

WHICH A VOTER MAY CAST THE BALLOT THROUGH THE MAIL. THE LANGUAGE OF

THE BILL IS IN LINE WITH PROCEDURES WE ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE FOR

ABSENTEE VOTING AND ALSO MAKES CONFORMING CHANGES TO CURRENT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

STATUTES OF THE ELECTION LAW, EDUCATION LAW, TOWN LAW AND NEW

YORK CITY CHARTER. THIS PROCESS WOULD INCLUDE PROVISIONS FOR HOW

INDIVIDUALS APPLY FOR AN EARLY VOTE BY MAIL BALLOT, HOW THOSE BALLOTS

ARE DELIVERED, THE ESTABLISHMENT OF AN ELECTRONIC EARLY MAIL BALLOT

APPLICATION TRANSMITTAL SYSTEM, DEADLINES AND DELIVERY TIMELINES TO

POLLING PLACES, AND THE ESTABLISHMENT OF AN ONLINE EARLY MAIL BALLOT

TRACKING SYSTEM. THIS NEW PROCESS WILL PROVIDE VOTERS WITH GREATER

OPPORTUNITIES TO CAST THEIR VOTE AND MAKE THEIR CHOICES -- HAVE THEIR

CHOICES MADE ON THE BALLOT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. NORRIS.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. REYES, WILL YOU

YIELD?

MS. REYES: YES, OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MS. REYES YIELDS, SIR.

MR. NORRIS: MS. REYES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MY FIRST QUESTION JUST SURROUNDS THE CONSTITUTIONALLY OF THIS PROVISION

SO I'M GOING TO ASK YOU WHAT CONSTITUTIONAL IMPLICATIONS, IF ANY, DOES

THIS BILL HAVE AS IT RELATES TO ARTICLE II, SECTION 2, GOVERNING ABSENTEE

VOTING?

MS. REYES: SO ARTICLE II, SECTION 2 TALKS ABOUT

ABSENTEE BALLOT AND THIS IS NOT THAT. THIS IS A SEPARATE SYSTEM THAT WE

WILL BE CREATING.

MR. NORRIS: WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. REYES: WELL, UNDER ARTICLE II, SECTION 2 IT

ENUMERATES THE WAYS A PERSON CAN REQUEST AN ABSENTEE BALLOT AND THE

REASONS FOR WHICH, DUE TO ILLNESS AND/OR OTHER REASONS LISTED IN THE

STATUTE, OR IF THE VOTER CAN'T PHYSICALLY GO TO THE POLLS, WHEREAS CREATING

AN EARLY VOTING BY MAIL SYSTEM JUST REQUIRES ANYBODY -- WOULD ALLOW

ANYBODY WHO IS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE IN THE ELECTION TO REQUEST A MAIL-IN

BALLOT.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO YOU DON'T FIND THIS TO BE AN

EXPANSION OF ABSENTEE VOTING IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK?

MS. REYES: NO, IT IS NOT THAT.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. AND I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE

WITH YOU. THESE ARE PAPER BALLOTS, THEY'RE BEING MAILED, AND I THINK

THAT IT WILL BE EXAMINED CERTAINLY BY THE COURTS DOWN THE ROAD AND

WE'LL SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

MS. REYES: MAY I ADD?

MR. NORRIS: SURE.

MS. REYES: SO ARTICLE II, SECTION 7, OF THE

CONSTITUTION DOES ALLOW FOR THE STATE LEGISLATURE, IT PROVIDES THE

AUTHORITY TO PRESCRIBE METHODS OTHER THAN THE BALLOT TO ELECT ITS

OFFICIALS AND WE ARE RELYING ON -- WE ARE USING THAT INTERPRETATION TO BE

ABLE TO SAY THAT WE CAN, IN FACT, CREATE EARLY MAIL BY VOTE SYSTEM.

MR. NORRIS: I SEE. SO THE -- THE ARTICLE II, SECTION

2, SAYS THAT THE LEGISLATURE MAY, BY GENERAL LAW, PROVIDE FOR REASONS

FOR THE OCCURRENCE OF THESE ISSUES, SO LET ME JUST READ THEM TO YOU THAT

THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS PROMULGATED: ABSENT FROM YOUR COUNTY OR IF

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

A RESIDENT OF NEW YORK CITY ABSENT FROM THE FIVE BOROUGHS ON

ELECTION DAY; UNABLE TO APPEAR AT THE POLLS DUE TO TEMPORARY OR

PERMANENT ILLNESS OR DISABILITY; UNABLE TO APPEAR BECAUSE YOU ARE THE

PRIMARY CAREGIVER OF ONE OR MORE INDIVIDUALS; A RESIDENT OR A PATIENT OF

THE VETERANS' HEALTH ADMINISTRATION OR DETAINED IN JAIL AWAITING GRAND

JURY ACTION OR CONFINED IN PRISON. WE'VE ALREADY DONE THAT, AND I WANT

TO JUST CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO 2021 WHEN THE VOTERS IN THE STATE OF NEW

YORK REJECTED NO EXCUSE ABSENTEE VOTING AND IT WAS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT;

1,677,582 WON, THAT WAS AGAINST, AND FOR WAS 1,370,897. THE VOTERS

RESOUNDINGLY REJECTED A SCHEME WHERE PAPER BALLOTS WOULD BE GOING

OUT TO VOTERS WITH NO EXCUSE. AND THOSE EXCUSES HAVE BEEN

ENUMERATED IN STATE LAW, SOME ARE ALSO MENTIONED IN THE CONSTITUTION,

AS YOU HAVE MENTIONED. AND I JUST ONE, FEEL THAT THIS IS A FAR STRETCH.

NOW I'LL ASK ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS IF YOU CAN JUST BEAR

WITH ME FOR A MOMENT. I THINK IT'S A FAR STRETCH, IT'S A SCHEME TO GET

AROUND THE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION THAT IS IN PLACE AND THE WILL OF THE

VOTERS THAT HAVE ALREADY TAKEN PLACE. SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS: WAS IT

CONTEMPLATED BY THE MAJORITY TO ALLOW THE VOTERS ONCE AGAIN TO HAVE

AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD ON THIS MATTER AND TO SPONSOR A CONCURRENT

RESOLUTION WHICH WOULD THEN BE ADOPTED POTENTIALLY THIS TERM OR THE

NEXT TERM AND THEN PLACED ON THE BALLOT FOR THE VOTERS?

MS. REYES: SO AGAIN, THE CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE II,

SECTION 2 OF THE CONSTITUTION IS WHAT GOVERNS ABSENTEE VOTING AND THAT

IS NOT WHAT WE ARE TOUCHING HERE. WE ARE USING ARTICLE II, SECTION 7,

WHICH PRESCRIBES THE AUTHORITY TO THE LEGISLATURE TO DECIDE HOW -- HOW

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

BALLOTS MAY BE -- PRESCRIBES HOW BALLOTS MAY BE USED IN ELECTIONS. SO

WE ARE NOT, BY ANY MEANS, TOUCHING THE ABSENTEE BALLOT SYSTEM THAT

EXISTS AND WILL REMAIN. THIS IS CREATING ANOTHER SYSTEM BY WHICH

ELIGIBLE VOTERS CAN VOTE BY MAIL.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU IT AGAIN: WAS

THERE ANY CONTEMPLATION TO ENUMERATE THIS IN THE CONSTITUTION TO

ENSURE THAT THERE'S NO ISSUE WHATSOEVER AND ALLOW THE VOTERS OF THE

STATE OF NEW YORK TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT EARLY MAIL

VOTING?

MS. REYES: THIS -- THIS CHANGE DOES NOT REQUIRE A

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

MR. NORRIS: WELL, I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA,

CERTAINLY TO PUT THIS UP TO THE VOTERS AND I THINK, ESPECIALLY SINCE

THEY'VE ALREADY WEIGHED IN ON THIS MATTER IN 2021 AND DEFEATED IT.

THEY SAID, WE DON'T WANT THIS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. SO I ONLY

THINK IT WOULD BE REASONABLE THAT WE PUT IT BACK OUT TO THE VOTERS, AND

WE ALLOW THEM TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT THIS PROCESS OR NOT.

NOW --

MS. REYES: I UNDERSTAND YOUR SENTIMENT, BUT WE'RE

CONFLATING TWO SECTIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION.

MR. NORRIS: POTENTIALLY. WE'LL SEE WHAT THE COURTS

HAVE TO SAY WHEN THEY REVIEW IT. MY NEXT QUESTION IS, IS THE SYSTEM

GOING TO BE DIFFERENT BETWEEN THE ABSENTEE VOTING AND THIS EARLY MAIL

VOTING?

MS. REYES: THERE WILL BE TWO DIFFERENT SYSTEMS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THERE IS A SYSTEM FOR ABSENTEE VOTING AND ONE FOR MAIL-IN VOTING.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. NOW, HOW WOULD YOU APPLY

FOR THAT?

MS. REYES: APPLY FOR WHAT?

MR. NORRIS: THE EARLY MAIL BALLOT. HOW DO YOU

APPLY FOR THAT IF YOU'RE A VOTER.

MS. REYES: YOU CAN REQUEST THE BALLOT BY MAIL.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY.

MS. REYES: YOU CAN REQUEST IT AT THE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY.

MS. REYES: AND THEN THERE IS AN ELECTRONIC WAY

THAT YOU CAN REQUEST THE BALLOT AS WELL.

MR. NORRIS: SO IF YOU APPLY ON A PHYSICAL

ABSENTEE BALLOT APPLICATION, WOULD THEY BE DIFFERENT? BY MAILING IT TO

THE BOARD, LIKE, A PIECE OF PAPER?

MS. REYES: THERE WOULD BE TWO DIFFERENT SYSTEMS

AND YOU -- THERE IS A DIFFERENT APPLICATION FOR AN ABSENTEE BALLOT

BECAUSE THIS IS NOT AN ABSENTEE BALLOT.

MR. NORRIS: ALL RIGHT. I JUST WANT TO ASK THIS

THOUGH, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT WOULD BE TWO DIFFERENT PHYSICAL

APPLICATIONS, BUT IN TERMS OF THE PORTAL, THE WEBSITE APPLICATION, WILL

THERE BE ONE SYSTEM OR TWO?

MS. REYES: TWO.

MR. NORRIS: TWO. OKAY. SO I WANT TO JUST READ

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

FROM THE STATUTE, YOUR BILL, NOT A STATUTE YET, MIGHT BE ONE DAY, AND I'M

GONNA READ FROM, ON PAGE 6, NUMBER 4, WHICH IS THE FOLLOWING STARTING

AT LINE 45 IN THE BILL: THE ELECTRONIC EARLY MAIL BALLOT APPLICATION

TRANSMITTAL SYSTEM SHALL BE COMBINED ON A SINGLE WEBSITE WITH --

CONFINED ON A SINGLE WEBSITE WITH THE ELECTRONIC ABSENTEE BALLOT

APPLICATION TRANSMITTAL SYSTEM CREATED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION. SO I'M

READING IT AS IT WILL BE A COMBINED SYSTEM.

MS. REYES: IT'S NOT A COMBINED SYSTEM. WE'RE JUST

NOT CREATING TWO SEPARATE WEBSITES. IT'S ONE WEBSITE --

MR. NORRIS: I SEE.

MS. REYES: -- TWO SYSTEMS.

MR. NORRIS: AND I WANT TO JUST READ BECAUSE I

THINK THIS IS ACTUALLY PRETTY INTERESTING.

MS. REYES: OKAY.

MR. NORRIS: A PERSON USING THE WEBSITE MUST FIRST

BE PROVIDED WITH A EARLY MAIL BALLOT APPLICATION BEFORE BEING OFFERED

THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPLY FOR AN ABSENTEE BALLOT. SO THE DEFAULT WILL BE

AUTOMATICALLY -- THEY'LL BE SENT TO THE EARLY MAIL VOTE?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. NORRIS: VERY INTERESTING. THEY WON'T EVEN

MAKE IT TO THE ABSENTEE BALLOT APPLICATION. NOW, I HAVE ANOTHER

QUESTION. DOES SOMEONE HAVE TO SIGN THESE APPLICATIONS?

MS. REYES: YES.

(PAUSE)

YES.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO IF THEY MAIL IT IN AT THE

BOARD OF ELECTIONS, THEY HAVE TO PHYSICALLY SIGN IT?

MS. REYES: OH, YOU'RE ASKING WHETHER THEY SIGN

THE APPLICATION OR THEY SIGN THE BALLOT?

MR. NORRIS: LET'S FOCUS ON THE APPLICATION, SO

THAT'S OKAY. ON THE APPLICATION, DO THEY HAVE TO SIGN IT?

MS. REYES: YES. UNLESS THEY REQUEST IT ONLINE IN

WHICH CASE THEY WOULD BE PROVIDING AN E-SIGNATURE.

MR. NORRIS: AN E-SIGNATURE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT

FOR ME?

MS. REYES: IT IS A WAY TO AUTHENTICATE YOUR

SIGNATURE ON LINE AND I THINK THERE'S -- THE REGISTRATION DATABASE WILL

HAVE AN EXEMPLAR SIGNATURE, AS WELL.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO YOU'LL PUT IN YOUR

INFORMATION, YOU'LL TELL THE SYSTEM TO GO FIND MY SIGNATURE MAYBE IN

THE DMV? TO APPLY.

MS. REYES: THERE'S A DATABASE THAT'S BEING CREATED

FOR REGISTRATION SO IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE THE DMV.

MR. NORRIS: HAS THE STATE LEGISLATURE PROVIDED

FUNDS TO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS TO CREATE THIS DATABASE?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: NO, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY COMING ON

BOARD, THIS NEW DATABASE.

MR. NORRIS: I SEE. SO -- BUT -- SO THEY HAVE THE

FUNDS ALREADY IN PLACE TO DO THIS?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. NORRIS: GREAT. OKAY, THAT'S GOOD NEWS. ALL

RIGHT. SO I'M JUST GOING TO GO BACK. IF THEY DON'T HAVE THIS ELECTRONIC

SIGNATURE IN SOME WAY, DOES THE VOTER STILL GET A BALLOT IN THE MAIL?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: YES. THEY CAN OBTAIN THEIR BALLOT -- I

MEAN, IF THEY CAN'T GET IT ON LINE, THEY CAN ALWAYS OBTAIN THEIR BALLOT

THROUGH THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS AS WELL.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO IF I'M A VOTER, I FILL OUT MY

LITTLE THING, TELL THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS ON THE PORTAL I WANT A BALLOT TO

BE MAILED TO ME, THEY CAN'T FIND MY SIGNATURE, I DON'T UPLOAD A

SIGNATURE, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS WILL STILL SEND ME A BALLOT WITHOUT A

SIGNATURE?

MS. REYES: IT SOUNDS TO ME WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING

IS AN INCOMPLETE APPLICATION SO I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

MR. NORRIS: YES, BUT THESE THINGS HAPPEN SO THAT'S

WHY I'M JUST ASKING THE QUESTION. SO I'M GOING TO READ AGAIN FROM THE

STATUTE JUST BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE WORD

ACTUALLY IS IN THE STATUTE. IT SAYS, IF AN EARLY MAIL BALLOT EXEMPLAR

SIGNATURE, WHICH IS AN ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE, IS NOT PROVIDED BY AN

APPLICANT WHO SUBMITS AN EARLY MAIL BALLOT APPLICATION PURSUANT TO

THIS SECTION, THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS SHALL SEEK TO OBTAIN THAT

SIGNATURE FROM THE DATABASE. IF THEY DON'T, IT WILL REQUIRE THEM -- I JUST

WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET THE RIGHT SPOT -- I'M READING OFF OF 40. IF SUCH

VOTER DOES NOT PROVIDE THE REQUIRED SIGNATURE, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SHALL PROCEED TO ISSUE AN EARLY MAIL BALLOT TO THE VOTER ALONG WITH THE

EARLY MAIL BALLOT APPLICATION FORM REQUIRING SUCH VOTER TO SUBMIT A

SIGNATURE UPON APPLICATION FORM AND RETURN IT TO THE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS. SO --

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. NORRIS: -- SO I WANT TO JUST MAKE SURE I GO

BACK. SO NUMBER LINE 40, THAT'S WHERE I WAS INTENDING TO READ FROM.

SO MY POINT OF THAT --

MS. REYES: YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, ACTUALLY. THEY

WOULD GET THE BALLOT, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO SUBMIT THEIR SIGNATURE

WHEN THEY SUBMIT THEIR COMPLETED BALLOT.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU. AND I WANTED TO MAKE

SURE I HAD THE RIGHT SECTION AND I DIDN'T JUMP DOWN. WHO CAN APPLY

FOR THESE APPLICATIONS ON LINE, OR IN PERSON?

MS. REYES: ELIGIBLE VOTERS.

MR. NORRIS: ANYBODY ELSE?

MS. REYES: NO.

MR. NORRIS: CAN SOMEONE'S SPOUSE, PARENT, CHILD,

PERSON RESIDING WITH THE APPLICANT AS A MEMBER OF THEIR HOUSEHOLD, OR

THE APPLICANT'S DULY-AUTHORIZED AGENT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU. THE BILL IS VERY LONG, SO I

UNDERSTAND WE HAVE TO JUST WORK THROUGH THIS LANGUAGE AND I KNOW IT'S

VERY LENGTHY SO I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT. MY -- MY CONCERN ABOUT

ALL OF THIS IS THAT IT'S NOT JUST THE VOTER WHO CAN APPLY FOR THESE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

(INAUDIBLE) PROCESS, IT COULD BE ANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT I JUST MENTIONED

INCLUDING AN AUTHORIZED PERSON. WELL, WHO COULD THAT BE? AND THEN

THEY PUT THE INFORMATION INTO THE SYSTEM, THEY CAN'T FIND A SIGNATURE FOR

THEM AND THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS THEN SENDS IT POTENTIALLY TO THE

AUTHORIZED PERSON. WHO -- WHO COULD THAT BE? IS THAT A POTENTIAL

SCENARIO?

MS. REYES: I'M SORRY. COULD YOU REPEAT THAT

QUESTION?

MR. NORRIS: SURE. SO SOMEONE COULD APPLY FOR

ABSENTEE BALLOT, AND THEY COULD ENTER THE INFORMATION, IT DOESN'T HAVE

TO BE THE VOTER, IT COULD BE AN AUTHORIZED PERSON OF THE VOTER.

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. NORRIS: VERY VAGUE, BUT AUTHORIZED PERSON OF

THE VOTER, PUT THE INFORMATION INTO THE SYSTEM, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS

CAN'T FIND A SIGNATURE OF THIS PERSON -- OF THE VOTER THROUGH THE

ELECTRONIC MEANS. THEN UNDER THE OTHER SECTION THAT I FOUND AND CITED

FOR YOU, THEY WILL MAIL OUT THIS BALLOT TO WHEREVER IT WAS REQUESTED TO

GO, POTENTIALLY TO THE AUTHORIZED PERSON. IS THAT A POSSIBILITY?

MS. REYES: YES.

MR. NORRIS: YES. AND MY CONCERN WITH THAT IS, IS

THAT POTENTIALLY THE VOTER THEMSELVES MAY NOT EVEN KNOW THAT A BALLOT

WAS REQUESTED ON THEIR BEHALF, AND THEN IT MIGHT BE SENT TO SOMEONE

ELSE AND THEN THEY MAYBE WILL TAKE A SIGNATURE AND SUBMIT IT AND THE

VOTER POTENTIALLY MAY NOT EVEN KNOW THAT A VOTE WAS CAST ON THEIR

BEHALF.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. REYES: SO ALL THE BALLOTS WILL BE CHECKED,

SIMILARLY HOW WE CHECKED -- WE CHECKED MAIL-IN BALLOTS IN 2020.

MR. NORRIS: YES.

MS. REYES: AND WE USED THEM IN 2020 VERY SAFELY

AND EFFECTIVELY.

MR. NORRIS: MADAM SPEAKER, IF I COULD JUST USE

MY NEXT 15 AS THE RANKING MEMBER OF THE ELECTION LAW [SIC]?

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: YES, GO AHEAD.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

MS. REYES: SO VERY SIMILARLY TO HOW WE USED MAIL-

IN BALLOTS IN 2020 AND WE USED IT VERY EFFECTIVELY AND SAFELY, WE HAVE A

SYSTEM BY WHICH WE CAN VERIFY SIGNATURES. I WOULD HATE TO DRAW THIS

PARALLEL, BUT AUTHORIZED PERSONS ARE ABLE TO REQUEST ABSENTEE BALLOTS AS

WELL, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS NOT WHAT THIS IS. BUT I SAY THAT BECAUSE THE

PROCESS ALREADY EXISTS.

MR. NORRIS: I SEE. SO I JUST -- I JUST FIND IT AS A

POTENTIAL ISSUE OF HOW THE SYSTEM IS SET UP AND HOW THIS SIGNATURE ISSUE

COULD BE USED BY AN OUTSIDE AGENT TO ACTUALLY GET BALLOTS INTO THE

SYSTEM WITHOUT THE VOTERS EVEN KNOWING IT. I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO

SAY, THAT'S A SLIM POSSIBILITY, THESE THINGS DON'T HAPPEN, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE

AND THAT'S WHY I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THE

INTEGRITY OF OUR SYSTEM IS PARAMOUNT. AND THAT'S WHY I GO BACK TO THE

CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS AND THEY ARE SET FORTH IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

THE VOTERS REJECTING THOSE (INAUDIBLE) ABSENTEE VOTING IN 2021 AND

THEY SHOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD ON THIS ONCE AGAIN. BUT I

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WANT TO JUST CONTINUE WITH A FEW MORE QUESTIONS --

MS. REYES: SURE.

MR. NORRIS: -- I APPRECIATE YOUR COOPERATION.

WILL THIS APPLY TO ALL ELECTIONS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK?

MS. REYES: YES.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE FIRE

DISTRICTS, FOR EXAMPLE, LIBRARIES?

MS. REYES: YES, WE BELIEVE SO.

MR. NORRIS: AND FIRE DISTRICTS. WHEN YOU MAKE

YOUR APPLICATION ONTO THE PORTAL, OR IN PERSON, YOU KNOW, WRITING IT OUT

AND SENDING IT INTO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, IS IT A ONE-STOP SHOP?

MS. REYES: I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY ONE-

STOP SHOP.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. WELL, LET ME JUST TAKE A STEP

BACK. IF YOU DO IT ONCE, HOW LONG IS IT GOOD FOR?

MS. REYES: IF YOU DO WHAT ONCE?

MR. NORRIS: FILL OUT THE APPLICATION. IS IT GOOD FOR

ALL THE ELECTIONS FOR EVER, FOR ONE YEAR, FOR HOW LONG?

MS. REYES: YOU CAN REQUEST IT FOR ALL OF THE

ELECTIONS IN THAT CALENDAR YEAR.

MR. NORRIS: IN THE CALENDAR YEAR, OKAY. DO YOU

HAVE TO THEN APPLY SEPARATELY TO THE SCHOOL BOARD, TO THE VILLAGE CLERK,

TO THE FIRE DISTRICT COMMISSIONER, TO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: YOU WOULD HAVE TO APPLY TO WHICHEVER

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ENTITY IS ISSUING THE BALLOTS.

MR. NORRIS: OKAY. SO IT'S MULTIPLE DIFFERENT

PEOPLE.

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. NORRIS: YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD THINK IF YOU'RE

DOING THIS SYSTEM, THERE WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT OF COOPERATION, RIGHT?

MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE IN THE FUTURE, YOU CAN DO IT IN

ONE PLACE AND THEY CAN SEND THE INFORMATION TO OTHER PLACES, AS WELL.

BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND JURISDICTION, THERE MIGHT BE ISSUES WITH THAT WITH

SOMETHING THAT POTENTIALLY COULD BE CONTEMPLATED DOWN THE ROAD.

MS. REYES: IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU LIKE THIS PROCESS.

MR. NORRIS: WELL, I HAVEN'T GOTTEN ON THE BILL YET.

THE -- I DO WANT TO JUST SAY, YOU HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THE STATE BOARD

OF ELECTIONS TO HOW THIS WILL ACTUALLY BE IMPLEMENTED IN CONJUNCTION

WITH THE COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS, WHAT THAT PROCESS WILL BE?

MS. REYES: I -- I MEAN THE PROCESS WILL BE NO

DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS IN 2020 FOR THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS. SO THEY

ALREADY HAVE EXPERIENCE.

MR. NORRIS: THEY'LL BE INTERFACING BACK AND FORTH?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. NORRIS: GREAT.

I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH,

MS. REYES.

MS. REYES: THANK YOU.

MR. NORRIS: I APPRECIATE IT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. SPEAKER -- MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: ON THE BILL.

MR. NORRIS: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I JUST -- I

HAVE TO SAY, I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THIS METHOD OF VOTING WHICH I DO

BELIEVE SKIRTS THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK BECAUSE THE

ABSENTEE BALLOT PROVISIONS WERE PUT INTO PLACE IN THE CONSTITUTION AND

THERE WERE EXCEPTIONS THAT WERE GRANTED FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE NOT

ABLE TO VOTE AT THEIR POLLING SITE. AND, QUITE FRANKLY, I JUST FIND THIS TO

BE AN END-AROUND OF THAT ABSENTEE BALLOT SYSTEM. I FIND THAT THE VOTERS

SPOKE VERY LOUDLY AND CLEARLY IN 2021, THAT THEY HAD CONCERNS ABOUT

BALLOT SECURITY. THEY HAD CONCERNS ABOUT THIS PROCESS. THEY BELIEVED

THAT YOU SHOULD GO VOTE ON ELECTION DAY IF YOU DON'T -- UNLESS YOU

HAVE AN EXCUSE. AND I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE SEND THIS BACK

TO THE VOTERS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND LET THEM MAKE A

DETERMINATION THEMSELVES TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO ALLOW EARLY

MAIL VOTING IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

NOW, I -- I BELIEVE THAT THE COURTS WILL REVIEW THAT AND

WE'LL SEE WHERE THAT ENDS UP, BUT I DO BELIEVE ON THE CONSTITUTIONALITY

BASIS THERE ARE CERTAINLY CONCERNS, AND LET THE VOTERS DECIDE. I -- I MUST

SAY I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT POTENTIAL -- OF FRAUD. WE HAD MENTIONED

THEM EARLIER. I LAID OUT THE POTENTIAL SCENARIO THAT AN AGENT COULD MAKE

AN APPLICATION, PUT INFORMATION INTO THE PORTAL, IT COULD THEN GO TO THE

AGENT, THERE IS NO SIGNATURE AND A VOTER MAY NOT EVEN KNOW IF THEY

ACTUALLY CAST A BALLOT OR NOT. AND THAT IS A CONCERN BECAUSE BALLOT

SECURITY AND THE SANCTITY OF ONE'S BALLOT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND IT SHOULD

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BE IMPORTANT FOR EVERYBODY.

I WILL ALSO SAY THIS: BECAUSE OF THE CONSTITUTIONALITY

CONCERNS, I WILL BE VOTING NO ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. BUT I'VE NOW

SERVED AS THE RANKING MEMBER OF THE ELECTION LAW COMMITTEE FOR

SEVEN YEARS, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S BEEN THAT LONG, BUT I HAVE, AND I REALLY

WOULD HAVE HOPED THAT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION COULD'VE BEEN VETTED

THROUGH THE ELECTION LAW COMMITTEE AND EVEN HAVE HEARINGS ON THIS

BECAUSE THERE ARE ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AND IT'S JUST BEING

RAMMED THROUGH HERE AT THE END OF SESSION WITH FIVE OR SIX OTHER

ELECTION LAW BILLS, I HAVE A COUPLE MORE TO DEBATE, AND I -- I JUST HAVE

-- HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT.

NOW, I WILL TELL YOU THIS, AS WELL. IN 2019, I KNOW I'M

NOT SUPPOSED TO MENTION NAMES, BUT CHUCK LAVINE WHO WAS THE CHAIR

AT THE TIME, I DEBATED A BILL ON EARLY VOTING. I VOTED IN THE NEGATIVE.

BUT I CAN TELL YOU A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT HAVE OPENED UP TO THE

IDEA OF EARLY VOTING. THEY LIKE TO HAVE THE ACCESSIBILITY OF EARLY

VOTING. I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE COST STILL ON EARLY VOTING BECAUSE I

THINK THAT IT'S A BURDEN PARTICULARLY IN NON -- IN NON-PRESIDENTIAL

ELECTION YEARS ON THE BOARD OF ELECTION TO HAVE SO MANY DAYS OF EARLY

VOTING, AND THAT'S WHY I PUT FORTH A BILL IN NON-PRESIDENTIAL YEARS TO

REDUCE EARLY VOTING TO FIVE DAYS TO REDUCE COSTS, BUT TO ALSO PROVIDE THE

OPPORTUNITY AND THE ACCESSIBILITY FOR VOTERS ON THAT TOPIC, BECAUSE I'VE

HEARD FROM THEM. BUT I'VE ALSO HEARD FROM THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS AND

THE BURDEN AND THE COST PER VOTER ON THE BALLOTS AND THE COSTS TO

ADMINISTER EARLY VOTING FOR THAT WHAT MIGHT BE PERIOD OF TIME.

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SO AGAIN, I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONALITY

OF THIS BILL AND FOR THAT REASON I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. I JUST

BELIEVE THAT VOTERS SHOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY AND BE HEARD ON

THIS TOPIC BECAUSE IT'S CERTAINLY AN IMPORTANT ONE AND I HAVE HEARD

FROM CONSTITUENTS IN MY DISTRICT AND THEY DO LIKE THE OPTION OF EARLY

VOTING, WE JUST HAVE TO WEIGH ALL THE FACTORS AND ALL THE FACTORS AND ALL

THE COSTS THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS. SO THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER,

FOR HAVING ME TO BE HEARD ON THIS BILL, AND THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR FOR

ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MR. FLOOD.

MR. FLOOD: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: ON THE BILL.

MR. FLOOD: YOU KNOW, I KNOW IT'S LATE AND WE STILL

HAVE A LOT MORE TO GET THROUGH, SO I'M GOING TO KEEP THIS PRETTY BRIEF.

MY COLLEAGUE JUST SPOKE PRETTY ELOQUENTLY AND I THINK HIS APPROACH IS

GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE DIPLOMATIC THAN MINE. IF WE'RE BEING

HONEST, THIS BILL JUST OPENS UP OR IT'S AN INVITATION TO COMMIT ELECTION

FRAUD. THIS IS GOING TO CREATE SUBSTANTIAL DISTRUST AMONGST OUR, YOU

KNOW, ELECTORATE. IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR WHEN THEY VOTED THIS DOWN UPON

A REFERENDUM THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO EXPAND UPON THIS. THIS IS JUST

ABSOLUTELY DISRESPECTFUL TO THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE. WHEN

WE PUT SOMETHING UP FOR A REFERENDUM AND IT'S CLEARLY VOTED DOWN, AND

THEN TO CIRCUMVENT IT AND SAY WE KNOW BETTER, IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE TO

ALL THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THE ELECTORAL PROCESS. SO I WOULD

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ENCOURAGE THIS BODY, IF WE REALLY TRULY CARE ABOUT DOING OUR PEOPLE'S

WORK, OUR PEOPLE SPOKE ON THIS ALREADY, THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T WANT IT,

THIS SHOULD BE VOTED DOWN AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE

SAME. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MR. SLATER.

MR. SLATER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW SHORT QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. REYES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: THE SPONSOR

YIELDS.

MR. SLATER: THANK YOU, ASSEMBLYMEMBER REYES.

I JUST WANTED TO CHECK ON A COUPLE THINGS HERE. SO CAN YOU CONFIRM IF

THE LANGUAGE USED IN THIS BILL IS NEARLY IDENTICAL TO THE LANGUAGE USED IN

TITLE 4 OF THE ELECTION LAW RELATED TO ABSENTEE VOTING?

MS. REYES: IT'S MODELED AFTER THAT SYSTEM.

MR. SLATER: IT'S BASICALLY IDENTICAL WITH JUST THREE

WORDS DIFFERENCE, I BELIEVE.

MS. REYES: THEN IT'S NOT IDENTICAL.

MR. SLATER: I'LL TAKE THAT AS NEARLY IDENTICAL. SO

WOULDN'T THAT THEN QUALIFY AS CODIFYING THE NO EXCUSE ABSENTEE

MEASURE THAT THE VOTERS DEFEATED?

MS. REYES: NO, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS.

MR. SLATER: ESSENTIALLY I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE. IN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

2020, CHENANGO COUNTY SUFFERED A CYBER ATTACK ON ABOUT 250

COMPUTERS OPERATED BY THE COUNTY. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE AWARE OF

THAT. IN THAT CASE, HACKERS DEMANDED A RENT OF $450 PER COMPUTER TO

UNLOCK THOSE FILES. AND I THINK IT RAISES CONCERNS THAT SOME OF THE

E-MAIL ABSENTEE BALLOT APPLICATIONS MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PROCESSED.

AND SO I'M REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT ARE WE DOING IN THIS LEGISLATION

REGARDING DATA PRIVACY? SPECIFICALLY CYBER SECURITY PROTECTIONS WITH

RESPECT TO THE PROPOSED ELECTRONIC EARLY MAIL BALLOT APPLICATION

TRANSMITTAL SYSTEM, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE SENSITIVE AND SACRED NATION OF

OUR ELECTIONS. ARE THERE SAFEGUARDS THAT ARE REQUIRED AS PART OF THIS

PROPOSAL?

MS. REYES: I THINK OUR SYSTEM CAN HANDLE CYBER

SECURITY. I THINK YOU'RE GIVING ME A ONE-OFF EXAMPLE, BUT ULTIMATELY,

WE ARE ABLE TO DO MAIL-IN BALLOTS FOR THOSE WHO ARE EITHER ABSENTEE

AFFIDAVIT MILITARY BALLOTS, WE HAVE A PROCESS BY WHICH WE PROCESS

THESE. SO WE'RE CONFIDENT THAT THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS WILL BE ABLE TO

HANDLE THAT AND ITS SECURITY AS WELL.

MR. SLATER: BUT MANY OF THOSE APPLICATIONS ARE

ALSO DONE VIA MAIL, NOT JUST ELECTRONIC, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. SLATER: AND SO HAVE WE CONSULTED --

MS. REYES: OR IN PERSON.

MR. SLATER: -- WITH THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS

OR COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THOSE SAFEGUARDS

ARE IN PLACE FOR DATA PRIVACY AND CYBER SECURITY TO MANAGE WHAT YOU'RE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: WE'RE A LITTLE CONFUSED ABOUT YOUR

QUESTION ON CYBER SECURITY. I MEAN, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS ALREADY

PROCESSES...

MR. SLATER: MY QUESTION, AGAIN, IS HAVE YOU

CONSULTED WITH BOTH THE STATE AND INDIVIDUAL COUNTY BOARD OF

ELECTIONS THAT CONSIDERING WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO PROPOSE, THAT THEY

HAVE THE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE TO PROTECT THE DATA AND PRIVACY OF THOSE

WHO ARE GOING TO UTILIZE THE SYSTEM THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT?

MS. REYES: WE HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT THEY'RE ABLE

TO MANAGE IT.

MR. SLATER: CONFIDENCE, BUT NOT CONFIRMATION.

MY OTHER QUESTION IS UNDER THIS BILL, WHAT LEVEL OF ENCRYPTION WOULD BE

USED FOR THE ELECTRONIC APPLICATION FOR EARLY MAIL BALLOT APPLICATION AND

THE SYSTEM, AND THE ONLINE EARLY MAIL BALLOT? SO IS THERE ANY TYPE OF

ENCRYPTION SYSTEM IN PLACE? I GUESS THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT I WAS JUST

SAYING ON SAFEGUARDS.

MS. REYES: WHATEVER SYSTEM -- WHATEVER

ENCRYPTION SYSTEM THEY USE FOR ABSENTEE BALLOTS CURRENTLY.

MR. SLATER: I WANT TO JUST, IF WE CAN, FOCUS ON

SOME OF THE COSTS. MY COLLEAGUE, MR. NORRIS -- EXCUSE ME, MY

COLLEAGUE POINTED OUT AND I BELIEVE YOU CONFIRMED THAT THE

APPLICATIONS ARE GOING TO BE SENT BASICALLY INDIVIDUALIZED DEPENDING

ON -- ON THE ELECTION, RIGHT? SO LOCAL ELECTIONS, COUNTY ELECTIONS,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SCHOOL BOARD ELECTIONS, THEY WILL ALL BE INDIVIDUALIZED WHEN BEING

TRANSLATED OR UTILIZED? SO IS THERE A COST ASSOCIATED WITH THAT TO EACH OF

THOSE ENTITIES?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: WE DON'T HAVE A COST ESTIMATE OFF THE

TOP OF OUR HEADS.

MR. SLATER: BUT WE DO EXPECT THERE TO BE A FISCAL

IMPACT.

MS. REYES: POSSIBLY.

MR. SLATER: AND I'M JUST CURIOUS ON -- WELL, WE

KNOW, I GUESS, IT'S SAFE TO ASSUME THAT THERE WILL BE A FISCAL IMPACT

ESPECIALLY FROM THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, BUT WHAT ABOUT OUR SCHOOL

DISTRICTS?

MS. REYES: POSSIBLY.

MR. SLATER: SO ON THAT BASIS --

MS. REYES: IT MAY BE NOMINAL.

MR. SLATER: -- OF A POSSIBILITY -- IT'S JUST IRONIC TO

ME BECAUSE LAST NIGHT OR YESTERDAY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS

ANYMORE, WE HAD A LENGTHY CONVERSATION ABOUT CONSOLIDATING LOCAL

AND COUNTY ELECTIONS WITH STATE AND PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS. AND ONE

OF THE THINGS THAT WE HEARD EMPHATICALLY WAS THAT THERE WAS GOING TO

BE A COST-SAVINGS. BUT IF WE ARE SAYING NOW THERE'S A POSSIBLE COST TO

IMPLEMENT THIS, I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THAT WAS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION

BASED ON WHAT WE DISCUSSED JUST THE OTHER HOUR OR LAST NIGHT.

MS. REYES: WELL, THE -- THE LEGISLATION TAKES EFFECT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

JANUARY 1ST OF 2024, SO THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT WE CAN DISCUSS THIS

EARLY IN THE YEAR AND MAKING AN ALLOCATION.

MR. SLATER: BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, WHEN WE

TALKED ABOUT A COST-ANALYSIS ON CONSOLIDATING THOSE ELECTIONS, THIS WAS

NOT PART OF THAT EQUATION IN THAT -- IN THAT DEBATE, OR IN THAT

DELIBERATION?

MS. REYES: I THINK ULTIMATELY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO

DO IS INCREASE VOTER PARTICIPATION, WHETHER THAT BE IN OUR LOCAL

ELECTIONS OR MORE BROADLY, I THINK THAT WHENEVER WE ENCOURAGE THE

ELECTORATE TO PARTICIPATE AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM, WE -- WE SHOULD

ALL BE HAPPY FOR THAT AND MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.

MR. SLATER: AND WE SHOULD ALSO MAKE SURE IT'S

SAFE, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: ABSOLUTELY.

MR. SLATER: VERY GOOD.

MS. REYES: AS IT IS NOW.

MR. SLATER: VERY GOOD. I APPRECIATE THE ANSWERS

TO YOUR QUESTIONS.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL IF I MAY.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: ON THE BILL.

MR. SLATER: I THINK THAT AS WE'VE ALREADY HEARD BY

SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, THIS VERY TOPIC

WAS PUT FORWARD TO THE VOTERS AND THE VOTERS REJECTED IT

WHOLEHEARTEDLY. SO THE FACT NOW THAT WE FEEL EMPOWERED AS A

LEGISLATIVE BODY TO TELL OUR VOTERS THAT THEY WERE WRONG, THAT WE KNOW

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

BETTER, I THINK DOES A GREAT DISSERVICE TO THE VERY PEOPLE THAT WE'RE HERE

REPRESENTING. I THINK THAT THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT CONSTITUTIONAL CONCERNS.

I THINK THAT THEY ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD

DEFINITIVELY. I THINK THEY ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT SAFETY CONCERNS ON -- ON

-- ON OUR DATA PRIVACY. THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ADDITIONAL SAFEGUARDS

IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT ARE COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS AND OUR

SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE ABLE TO MANAGE THE DATA THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE

COLLECTING AS PART OF THIS PROCESS. AND I GO BACK TO COST. WE DO NOT

KNOW THE COST OF THE PROPOSALS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT. AND SO

WE HEAR IN ONE SIDE -- WE HEAR, OH, WE'RE GOING TO DO THINGS THAT'S

GOING TO SAVE TAXPAYER DOLLARS, AND THE VERY NEXT, WELL, WE DON'T KNOW

IF WE'RE GOING TO SAVE TAXPAYER DOLLARS BUT IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE

MORE. SO WE'RE REALLY JUST RUNNING AROUND BLINDFOLDED HERE SPENDING

DOLLARS THAT ARE NOT OURS. SPENDING DOLLARS THAT ARE BELONGING TO THE

TAXPAYER. FOR THOSE REASONS, MADAM SPEAKER, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE

NEGATIVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MR. SMULLEN.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. REYES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: THE SPONSOR

YIELDS.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU. I JUST -- I WANT TO GET

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BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION. I -- I KNOW WE'VE HEARD SOME -- SOME

QUESTIONS FROM MY COLLEAGUES, BUT HOW IS THIS SYSTEM DIFFERENT THAN

THE ABSENTEE SYSTEM FROM A VOTER VERIFICATION PERSPECTIVE? HOW IS IT

GOING TO BE VERIFIED THAT A VOTER IS ACTUALLY THE PERSON THAT THEY SAY

THEY ARE WHEN THEY SUBMIT AN APPLICATION FOR A BALLOT FIRST AND HOW DO

THEY VERIFY THAT THEY'RE THAT VOTER WHEN THEY SUBMIT THE BALLOT? HOW'S

THAT DONE IN THIS SUPPOSEDLY NEW SYSTEM?

MS. REYES: FROM A VOTER VERIFICATION STANDPOINT, IT

DOESN'T DIFFER. WHAT DIFFERS IS UNDER THE ABSENTEE BALLOT YOU NEED TO

HAVE AN ILLNESS, YOU NEED TO BE OUT OF THE COUNTRY OR SIMILARLY WHETHER

YOU'RE AN ACTIVE DUTY IN THE MILITARY. THIS JUST HAPPENS TO BE THAT

ANYONE CAN VOTE BY MAIL. THE VERIFICATION SYSTEM IS THE SAME.

MR. SMULLEN: SO TODAY ANYONE CAN VOTE BY MAIL

THROUGH THE ABSENTEE SYSTEM IF THEY HAVE ONE OF THE VALID REASONS FOR

VOTING ABSENTEE.

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. SMULLEN: SO IF THERE'S NO -- NO DIFFERENCE IN

THE VOTER VERIFICATION PROCEDURES, THEN WE ARE JUST SAYING THIS IS NO

EXCUSE ABSENTEE BALLOT.

MS. REYES: IT'S NOT.

MR. SMULLEN: IT IS.

MS. REYES: IN ORDER TO MAKE A NO EXCUSE ABSENTEE

BALLOT SYSTEM YOU NEED A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

MR. SMULLEN: SO WE -- WE ASKED FOR THAT AND THE

VOTERS RESOUNDINGLY REJECTED IT.

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MS. REYES: CORRECT, BUT --

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU.

MS. REYES: -- LIKE I SAID, ARTICLE II, SECTION 7 OF THE

STATE CONSTITUTION GIVES US THE AUTHORITY TO CREATE THIS INDEPENDENT

SYSTEM, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.

MR. SMULLEN: RESPECTFULLY, NO IT DOES NOT. IT JUST

SAYS THAT YOU CAN PROPOSE LEGISLATION THAT CAN SAY IT DOES BUT IT DOESN'T

NECESSARILY -- BECAUSE YOU SAY IT SO, DOESN'T MAKE IT SO.

MS. REYES: THE SUPREME COURT HAS UPHELD IT IN

MASSACHUSETTS, IT HAS UPHELD IT IN PENNSYLVANIA AND THEY HAVE IDENTICAL

CONSTITUTIONAL LANGUAGE AS THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

MR. SMULLEN: WE'LL SEE -- WE'LL SEE HOW THAT

TURNS OUT FOR NEW YORK STATE GOING FORWARD.

SO LET'S GET -- LET'S GET TO TALK ABOUT THIS ACTUAL VOTER

VERIFICATION TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PERSON WHO IS -- WHO IS ELIGIBLE TO

VOTE. NOW, IN THIS CASE, ARE ONLY CITIZENS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE IN THIS

SYSTEM?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. SMULLEN: AND -- AND THAT WOULD BE CITIZENS

THAT RESIDE IN CERTAIN AREAS. AT WHAT POINT DO THEY HAVE TO REGISTER

BEFORE AN ELECTION TO BE ABLE TO VOTE AND REQUEST THIS NEW --

SUPPOSEDLY NEW SYSTEM?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: WE HAVE CURRENT -- CURRENT REGISTRATION

DEADLINES. FIFTEEN BY MAIL (INAUDIBLE).

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. SMULLEN: NOW I READ -- I READ IN THE BILL THAT

THERE WAS A -- A REQUIREMENT THAT THE APPLICATION BE TEN DAYS BEFORE AN

ELECTION; IS THAT TRUE?

MS. REYES: UP TO TEN DAYS BEFORE AN ELECTION.

MR. SMULLEN: UP TO TEN DAYS BEFORE AN ELECTION.

SO IF AN ELECTION IS ON, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST TUESDAY IN NOVEMBER AND

IT'S NOVEMBER 2ND SAY, THEY WOULD HAVE UNTIL OCTOBER 25TH IN ORDER TO

REQUEST THIS BALLOT.

MS. REYES: YES.

MR. SMULLEN: AND THEN IT WOULD BE MAILED TO

THEM. AT WHAT POINT WOULD IT HAVE TO BE BACK TO THE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS BY?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: IT HAS TO BE IN BY CLOSE OF POLLS IF IT'S

BROUGHT IN IN PERSON, OR SEVEN DAYS AFTER IF IT'S MAILED IN.

MR. SMULLEN: SEVEN DAYS AFTER, OKAY. AND NOW,

DOES THE ACTUAL WRITTEN BALLOT APPLICATION, DOES IT HAVE TO BE SIGNED BY

A VOTER?

MS. REYES: YES.

MR. SMULLEN: AND IS THAT CHECKED ON A SIGNATURE

ROLE THAT'S ALREADY HELD BY THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS THAT WOULD ALSO BE

CHECKED FOR AN ABSENTEE BALLOT?

MS. REYES: YES, SIR.

MR. SMULLEN: OKAY. AND THEN WHEN THE BALLOT IS

RETURNED, IS THAT THE SAME SIGNATURE THAT'S CHECKED?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. REYES: WHEN THE BALLOT IS RETURNED --

MR. SMULLEN: IF SOMEONE FILLS OUT A BALLOT --

MS. REYES: -- TO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS?

MR. SMULLEN: IF SOMEONE FILLS OUT A BALLOT AND --

AND MAILS IT BACK INTO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, IS IT THE SAME SIGNATURE

REQUIREMENT?

MS. REYES: WHEN YOU SAY SOMEONE, YOU MEAN THE

VOTER?

MR. SMULLEN: THE VOTER.

MS. REYES: YES.

MR. SMULLEN: EXCUSE ME. SO WHAT I'M -- WHAT

I'M GETTING AT, EXCUSE ME, (COUGHING), IS WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES IF IT IS

NOT THE VOTER THAT HAS REQUESTED IT OR HAS RETURNED THE BALLOT? IS IT -- IS

IT DONE UNDER PERJURY PENALTIES?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: WE'LL DOUBLE-CHECK. I DON'T HAVE AN

ANSWER FOR YOU RIGHT NOW.

MR. SMULLEN: AND WHAT WOULD THOSE PENALTIES BE

IF SOMEONE WERE TO --

MS. REYES: I DON'T -- I DON'T HAVE THAT ANSWER FOR

YOU CURRENTLY.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU. NOW, WHEN WE GO --

LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ACTUALLY ONLINE APPLICATION AND THEN THE --

THE RETURN OF THE BALLOT, THE PAPER BALLOT THAT WOULD COME BACK MAILED

BY THE PERSON. I NOTED THAT THE BALLOT WOULD BE MAILED WITH A POSTAGE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AND AN ADDRESSED ENVELOPE BACK TO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS; IS THAT TRUE?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. SMULLEN: SO EVERY BALLOT WOULD COST AT LEAST

A DOLLAR OR SO TO -- TO BE ABLE TO MAIL OUT?

MS. REYES: WHATEVER THE POSTAGE IS. POSTAGE AND

PRINTING AND...

MR. SMULLEN: THE -- THE ENVELOPE, THE POSTAGE

AND THE RETURN THINGS. SO THE ACTUAL ONLINE APPLICATION, HOW IS THAT

TRACKED THAT THE PERSON IS ACTUALLY THE VOTER IF THERE IS NO WRITTEN

SIGNATURE TO VERIFY? IF YOU -- IF YOU SUBMIT AN APPLICATION ONLINE FOR

THIS MAIL-IN BALLOT, HOW IS IT VERIFIED THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY THE PERSON THAT

IS SUBMITTING THE APPLICATION THAT IT'S A REGISTERED VOTER?

MS. REYES: THAT'S WHEN WE HAD THE AUTOMATIC

VOTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM. AND WHEN THE BALLOT IS RETURNED TO THE

BOARD OF ELECTIONS OR THE BODY THAT'S ISSUING THE BALLOT, THEN THEY CAN

CHECK THE SIGNATURE AND --

MR. SMULLEN: SO IN THAT CASE THERE WOULD ONLY BE

-- THERE WOULD ONLY BE ONE CHECK AS TO -- AS TO WHETHER THE SIGNATURE IS

CORRECT, NOT INITIAL APPLICATION AND THE RETURN OF THE BALLOT. IT WOULD

JUST BE A SINGLE RETURN. SO ANYONE COULD REQUEST A BALLOT. NOW, WHAT

PROCEDURES DOES THE -- EXCUSE ME, (COUGHING).

MS. REYES: I MEAN WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THAT

ISSUE, BUT THERE IS ALSO PROCEDURES FOR THEM TO CONTEST THE BALLOT.

MR. SMULLEN: TO CONTEST -- I'M -- I'M NOT TALKING

ABOUT CONTESTING A BALLOT. I'M ACTUALLY ENSURING THAT THE BALLOT THAT'S

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BEING REQUESTED IS BEING REQUESTED BY AN AUTHORIZED VOTER OR AS WAS

SAID THE REPRESENTATIVE.

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. SMULLEN: DOES THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS DO

ANY GEOFENCING OR IP ADDRESS CAPTURE TO SEE WHERE THE ACTUAL

APPLICATION IS COMING FROM?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: I -- I -- I'M NOT SURE IF THEY HAVE

GEOFENCING.

MR. SMULLEN: OKAY. AND DOES THE NEW YORK

STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS USE ANY BLOCKCHAIN METHODOLOGIES FOR

SECURITY OF DOCUMENTS THAT ARE SENT FROM A -- A RESIDENCE?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: I JUST THINK YOU'RE PROVIDING EXAMPLES

THAT ARE EXTREMELY RARE. I DON'T THINK YOU'RE ASKING ME FOR LEGITIMATE --

MR. SMULLEN: I'M -- I'M TALKING ABOUT COMMON

PROCEDURES THAT ARE USED IN THE BANKING INDUSTRY EVERYDAY WHEN --

MS. REYES: THIS ISN'T --

MR. SMULLEN: -- (INAUDIBLE) TRANSACTIONS --

MS. REYES: -- THE BANKING INDUSTRY.

MR. SMULLEN: -- ARE SECURE.

MS. REYES: THIS ISN'T THE BANKING INDUSTRY. THE

BOARD OF ELECTIONS --

MR. SMULLEN: THIS IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN

THE BANKING INDUSTRY --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. REYES: THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS HAS A SYSTEM

BY WHICH THEY VERIFY THE VOTERS WHEN LIKE I SAID, ABSENTEE AFFIDAVIT

MILITARY BALLOTS HAVE A PROCESS --

MR. SMULLEN: I WOULD -- I WOULD --

MS. REYES: -- THE PROCESS WOULD BE NO DIFFERENT.

MR. SMULLEN: I WOULD RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE THAT

THEY DO ON SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE A SIGNATURE ON FILE OR IF YOU'RE

DOING IT FROM AN ONLINE APPLICATION. THERE IS NO WAY TO ENSURE THAT THE

PERSON IS WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE TO ANY LEVEL OF -- OF SURETY THAT WOULD

BE COMMONLY PRACTICED IN BUSINESS AT THIS POINT. THAT'S A FACT.

MS. REYES: I WOULD ALSO PRESENT THAT IN 2020 THE

BOARD OF ELECTIONS HAS USED MAIL-IN BALLOTS SAFELY AND EFFECTIVELY AND

ONCE WE IMPLEMENT THE SYSTEM THEY WILL HAVE A MORE ROBUST WAY IN

TERMS OF VERIFYING, BUT...

MR. SMULLEN: WELL, I THINK THE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS SHOULD USE THE BLOCKCHAIN OR MODERN TECHNOLOGY TO BE ABLE

TO ENSURE THAT IT'S SECURE. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT

TRANSACTIONS THAT CITIZENS HAVE WITH THEIR GOVERNMENT IS THE -- IS THE

RIGHT OF THE FRANCHISE, THE RIGHT TO VOTE. AND I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY

CRITICAL.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL IF I COULD.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: ON --

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: -- THE BILL.

MR. SMULLEN: THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT DEBATE

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AND IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE FOR ALL THE

CITIZENS WHO ARE LISTENING HERE AT 10:00 P.M. ON A FRIDAY NIGHT AS THE

LEGISLATIVE SESSION COMES TO A CLOSE. THIS IS A VERY CRITICAL ISSUE

HAVING TO DO WITH THE SECURITY OF OUR ELECTIONS. AND WE'RE PASSING

WHAT IS BILLED AS A -- AS A SEPARATE ADDITIONAL SYSTEM ONTO A SYSTEM

RIGHT NOW THAT'S SECURE WHICH HAS BEEN VALIDATED BY THE VOTERS IN A

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT WAS SOUNDLY REJECTED BY THEM JUST A

YEAR AGO. AND MY CONCERN IS IS WITH THE SECURITY OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS TO

MAKE SURE THAT THE PERSON THAT'S REQUESTING THEM AND THE PERSON THAT IS

RETURNING THEM IS ACTUALLY THE VOTER THAT'S REGISTERED AND AUTHORIZED TO

VOTE IN THEIR ELECTIONS. AND I'M NOT SATISFIED AT THIS POINT AND I THINK

ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES SHOULD THINK VERY CLOSELY ABOUT THIS AND WE

SHOULD ALL VOTE NO ON THIS ILL-CONCEIVED NOTION THAT'S BEEN PUT BEFORE US

TONIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: ON THE BILL.

MS. WALSH: I -- I -- I PHYSICALLY HAD TO CLOSE MY

MOUTH AS I WAS LISTENING TO THIS DEBATE. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? ARE YOU

KIDDING ME? I -- I AM ABSOLUTELY BLOWN AWAY BY WHAT I AM HEARING

TONIGHT AS THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER JUST SAID, AS WE END SESSION AFTER DAYS

AND NIGHTS OF WORK AND LITTLE SLEEP AND ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE

FACING NEW YORK AND WE GET THIS BILL HANDED TO US ON A FRIDAY NIGHT

WITH THE GALLERY EMPTY NOW AND I AM ASTOUNDED. I -- YESTERDAY, LAST

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

NIGHT, WHENEVER IT WAS, EARLY MORNING, A -- A MEMBER OF THE OTHER SIDE

OF THE AISLE SAID THAT HE TRUSTED THE VOTERS. WELL, YES. AND TRUSTED THE

VOTERS AND I SAID, THAT'S REALLY FUNNY BECAUSE IN 2021 THE VOTERS

REJECTED NO EXCUSE ABSENTEE VOTING. AND -- AND WHAT WE'RE GETTING

TONIGHT, QUITE HONESTLY, ARE SOME REALLY CUTE ANSWERS THAT OH, THIS ISN'T

REALLY NO EXCUSE ABSENTEE VOTING. IT'S REALLY -- IT'S -- IT'S THE NEW YORK

EARLY MAIL VOTING ACT. OH, WELL, IS IT -- IS IT SIMILAR LANGUAGE?

WELL -- IT'S -- IT'S MODELED AFTER THAT SYSTEM BUT IT'S DIFFERENT. IT'S

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, BECAUSE IF IT WERE THE SAME, WE'D HAVE TO GET A

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AND SO THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS. AND, YOU

KNOW, MAYBE THERE ARE SOME OTHER STATES THAT HAVE DONE IT, TOO, WE'LL

HAVE TO SEE. THIS -- THIS IS TROUBLING, THIS IS TROUBLING. YOU KNOW, THE

ISSUES HAVE BEEN RAISED AS FAR AS THE SECURITY OF THE SYSTEM DATA

BREACHES OR DATA SECURITY ISSUES, I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO THOSE. ALL

I'M GOING -- THERE'S NO COST ESTIMATE. AND OH, BY THE WAY, IT'S GOING TO

BE EFFECTIVE IN LESS THAN SIX MONTHS, ALL RIGHT, 'CAUSE GREAT BIG

PROGRAMS THAT WE PUT INTO PLACE ARE REALLY VERY EFFECTIVE WHEN YOU

HAVE LESS THAN SIX MONTHS TO IMPLEMENT, YOU KNOW. I -- I JUST CANNOT

BELIEVE THIS. AND I THINK IT'S KIND OF UNFAIR TO THE SPONSOR BECAUSE SHE

DOESN'T SIT ON THE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE, SHE IS NOT AN ATTORNEY OR AN

ELECTIONS ATTORNEY AND -- AND SHE TRIED TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS BUT,

QUITE HONESTLY, THIS IS NOT A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN

BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR. AND IT'S GOING TO BE CHALLENGED. AND I -- I -- I

HOPE, I HOPE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THIS CHAMBER AND THE PEOPLE

WHO ARE WITHIN MY VOICE WILL COME AND VOTE AGAINST THIS. IT -- IT IS

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REALLY -- ALL I COULD THINK OF WAS THE SAYING THAT IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK

AND IT QUACKS LIKE A DUCK, IT'S A DUCK. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE VOTERS

REJECTED. SO IF WE TRUST THE VOTERS, WHY ARE WE PUSHING THIS THROUGH

RIGHT NOW? IT'S -- THIS IS EMBARRASSING. WE HAVE BIGGER, MORE

IMPORTANT ISSUES THAN TO TAKE UP A BILL LIKE THIS. SO, I WILL BE IN THE

NEGATIVE. COME ON, PEOPLE. LET'S GET REAL. WE'VE GOT OTHER WORK TO

DO. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD EVEN HAVE BEEN

PRESENTED WITH FOR A VOTE. I'LL BE OBVIOUSLY IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK

YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: AND MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. REYES: SURE.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: THE SPONSOR

YIELDS.

MS. REYES: AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT THROWING INSULTS

AT ME.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, I WASN'T PLANNING ON IT, BUT

THANK YOU FOR YIELDING.

MS. REYES: SURE.

MR. GOODELL: SO I JUST -- LOOKING AT THE BILL

LANGUAGE AND JUST WANT TO CHECK SOME THINGS FOR YOU. SO I'M LOOKING

AT PAGE 2, LINES 12 THROUGH 16. IT APPEARS THAT THE APPLICATION FOR THIS

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BALLOT CAN BE MADE BY NOT ONLY THE VOTER BUT THE SPOUSE, PARENT, CHILD

OR SOMEONE RESIDING WITH THE VOTER, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND THAT APPLICATION CAN BE NOT

ONLY FOR THIS ELECTION BUT LOOKING AT LINE 35 AND 36 CAN BE FOR -- I'M

SORRY, FOR MULTIPLE ELECTIONS, RIGHT?

MS. REYES: WITHIN THE SAME CALENDAR YEAR.

MR. GOODELL: YES. AND -- AND WHEN THEY APPLY

FOR THIS BALLOT, AM I CORRECT THAT THE APPLICATION REQUIRES THAT THEY

PROVIDE THEIR NAME, DATE OF BIRTH, RESIDENCE ADDRESS, BUT THEY DON'T

HAVE TO PUT ANY EXCUSE, RIGHT, WHEN THEY'RE ASKING FOR IT? THAT'S NOT

REQUIRED, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT. THAT'S WHY IT'S A SEPARATE VOTE

BY MAIL SYSTEM.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND -- AND THEY CAN -- OH, I

SEE IT, YUP, AND YOU HAD MENTIONED THEY COULD THEN GET IT FOR THE REST OF

THEM. AND OF COURSE, SINCE THIS APPLICATION CAN BE SUBMITTED BY

SOMEBODY OTHER THAN THE VOTER, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SIGNED BY THE

VOTER, RIGHT? IT CAN BE SIGNED BY OR SUBMITTED BY A SPOUSE, CHILD,

PARENT OR JUST SOMEONE LIVING WITH THE VOTER, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: NO.

MR. GOODELL: OH, SO IT DOES HAVE TO BE, EVEN

THOUGH THE APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED BY SOMEBODY WHO'S NOT THE VOTER,

THE APPLICATION HAS TO BE SIGNED BY THE VOTER?

MS. REYES: THEY COULD REQUEST IT, BUT THE ACTUAL

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

BALLOT NEEDS TO BE SIGNED BY THE VOTER.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND LOOKING AT PAGE 4, THE

TOP OF PAGE 4, OR THE BOTTOM OF PAGE 3, THE APPLICATION SAYS, IT SAYS, I'M

UNABLE TO SIGN MY APPLICATION, RIGHT? SO IF YOU'RE DISABLED, FOR

EXAMPLE, OR CAN'T READ - WHICH MAKES ME WONDER HOW YOU'RE GOING TO

FILL OUT THE APPLICATION AND KNOW WHAT YOU'RE VOTING ON - BUT -- BUT IN

ANY EVENT, IT SAYS IF YOU'RE DISABLED OR CAN'T READ, THEN YOU'RE EXCUSED

FROM SIGNING.

MS. REYES: RIGHT. THAT'S THE APPLICATION, THEY CAN

MARK AND THEN IT'S WITNESSED.

MR. GOODELL: AND SO THEN THE APPLICATION IS

ACTUALLY SIGNED BY SOMEBODY ELSE, RIGHT, WHO CERTIFIES THAT THEY WERE A

WITNESS?

MS. REYES: THE APPLICATION.

MR. GOODELL: AND THE PERSON WHO SIGNS IT AS A

WITNESS, THEY DON'T NEED TO BE A NOTARY LIKE WE HAVE TO BE IF WE'RE

CIRCULATING PETITIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, ON AN INDEPENDENT PARTY. IT CAN BE

ANYBODY, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: I'M SORRY?

MR. GOODELL: THE -- THE PERSON THAT WITNESSES

THIS IF THE VOTER CAN'T SIGN, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE A NOTARY, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: I'M LOOKING AT THE TOP OF PAGE 4.

THEY DON'T NEED TO BE A NOTARY.

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. GOODELL: AND DO THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE ANY

IDENTIFICATION BY THE WAY, THE WITNESS?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: IF -- IF YOU'RE VOTING BY MAIL, WHO DO

YOU SHOW YOUR ID TO? I MEAN THIS IS THE SAME PROCESS BY WHICH WE DO

ABSENTEE BALLOTS.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. NOW THIS HAS AN EXTENSIVE

LANGUAGE ABOUT HAVING THESE APPLICATIONS SIGNED BY AN EXEMPLARY

SIGNATURE OR AN ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE. SO THAT'S NOT THE PERSON --

MS. REYES: THE APPLICATION.

MR. GOODELL: WHAT'S THAT?

MS. REYES: THAT'S THE APPLICATION.

MR. GOODELL: YEAH. AND THAT'S NOT THEIR REAL

SIGNATURE THEN, RIGHT? IT'S LIKE A COPY, AN ELECTRONIC COPY?

MS. REYES: I THINK THERE'S LANGUAGE HERE THAT SAYS

THAT THEY CAN UPLOAD IT.

MR. GOODELL: UH-HUH. AND IT ALSO SAYS, DOESN'T

IT, THAT THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS OR THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS WILL

ACTUALLY SUPPLY THAT IN SOME CASES; AM I CORRECT?

MS. REYES: YES. I MEAN THEY CAN CHECK IT -- THE

LOCAL BOARD SHALL SEEK TO OBTAIN SUCH EXEMPLAR SIGNATURE FROM THE

STATEWIDE VOTER REGISTRATION DATABASE, THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS OR A

STATE OR LOCAL AGENCY DESIGNATED BY SECTION 5 TO 11 OR FIVE TO 12 OF THIS

CHAPTER.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO THE APPLICATION DOESN'T

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

HAVE TO BE SIGNED -- SUBMITTED BY THE VOTER, IT CAN BE SUBMITTED BY

SOMEONE WHO LIVES WITH THE VOTER. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SIGNED BY THE

VOTER. IT COULD BE -- IT COULD HAVE AN ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE BUT IF THE --

IF THE VOTER DOESN'T HAVE ONE, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS CAN AFFIX ONE,

RIGHT?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: IF THERE IS NO SIGNATURE THEN THE BOARD

OF ELECTIONS CAN REQUEST ONE IN PERSON, IT SAYS IT HERE. IF YOU'RE -- IF

SUCH EXEMPLAR SIGNATURE IS NOT AVAILABLE FROM THE STATEWIDE VOTER

REGISTRATION DATABASE, THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS OR STATE OF LOCAL

AGENCY DESIGNATED BY SECTION 5-211 OR 5-212 OF THIS CHAPTER, THE LOCAL

BOARD OF ELECTIONS SHALL, ABSENT ANOTHER REASON TO REJECT THE

APPLICATION, REQUIRE THE VOTER TO PROVIDE THE EXEMPLAR SIGNATURE BY ANY

ONE OF THE FOLLOWING METHODS: IN PERSON, BY ELECTRONIC MAIL OR BY

ELECTRONIC UPLOAD TO THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS THROUGH THE ELECTRONIC

EARLY MAIL BALLOT APPLICATION TRANSMITTAL SYSTEM.

MR. GOODELL: AND I APPRECIATE THAT. SO THERE'S

FOUR OF THEM AND ONE OF THEM IS AN ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE THEY ALREADY

HAVE ON FILE, CORRECT? THAT'S NUMBER THREE I THINK. YEAH?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: SO, NOW LET'S SAY THE PERSON

SUBMITS A BALLOT APPLICATION, AND WE'VE ALREADY CONFIRMED THERE'S NO --

YOU DON'T NEED TO GIVE AN EXCUSE, RIGHT, SO NO EXCUSE APPLICATION, YOU

JUST SAY I WANT ONE, RIGHT?

MS. REYES: THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. GOODELL: AND THEY -- THEY FILL IT OUT, RIGHT?

HOPEFULLY THE VOTER FILLS IT OUT, AND THIS IS CALLED EARLY MAIL VOTING. SO

THEY PUT IT IN AN ENVELOPE. DOES THE ENVELOPE HAVE TO COME BACK IN

THE MAIL OR CAN THEY DELIVER IT PERSONALLY?

MS. REYES: THEY CAN DELIVER IT IN PERSON AS WELL.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. AND SO IF THEY BRING IT BACK

PERSONALLY THEN PRESUMABLY IT WOULD HAVE NO POSTMARK. I MEAN

BECAUSE ONCE YOU PUT IT IN THE MAIL YOU CAN'T DELIVER IT BACK

PERSONALLY, THAT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS. AND THEY CAN DELIVER IT BACK

PERSONALLY UP TO SEVEN DAYS AFTER THE ELECTION?

MS. REYES: NO. DELIVER IT IN PERSON UP TO CLOSE OF

POLLS ON ELECTION DAY.

MR. GOODELL: WELL, I DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO

PAGE 7, LINE 19. IT SAYS, ANY EARLY MAIL BALLOT RECEIVED BY THE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS BY MAIL THAT DOES NOT BEAR OR DISPLAY A DATED POSTMARK SHALL

BE PRESUMED TO HAVE BEEN TIMELY MAILED. HOW IS IT THAT SOMETHING

GOES THROUGH THE POST OFFICE WITHOUT GETTING A POSTMARK? I MEAN, HOW

WOULD YOU DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THAT AND SOMEBODY WHO JUST

HAND-DELIVERS IT WITH A STAMP?

MS. REYES: CAN YOU FINISH READING THE REST OF THE

SENTENCE?

MR. GOODELL: MOST CERTAINLY. SHALL BE PRESUMED

TO HAVE BEEN TIMELY MAILED OR DELIVERED IF IT BEARS THE TIMESTAMP OF THE

RECEIVING BOARD OF ELECTIONS INDICATING THAT IT WAS RECEIVED ON THE DAY

AFTER THE ELECTION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. REYES: THERE'S YOUR -- THAT'S YOUR ANSWER.

MR. GOODELL: SO YOU CAN DELIVER IT THE DAY AFTER

BUT NOT SEVEN DAYS AFTER.

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. SO YOU CAN WAIT AND SEE

WHAT THE PRELIMINARY ELECTION RESULTS ARE AND THEN BRING IT IN AS LONG AS

IT'S GOT A STAMP ON IT AND AS LONG AS IT'S STAMPED THE NEXT DAY YOU'RE

OKAY?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: I'M SORRY. WHAT WAS THAT QUESTION

AGAIN?

MR. GOODELL: NO. I -- I SAID SO YOU CAN SIT BACK

IN YOUR ARMCHAIR AND WATCH THE PRELIMINARY RESULTS ON ELECTION DAY

AND THEN BRING IN YOUR BALLOT THE NEXT DAY AS LONG AS IT'S DELIVERED

WITHIN THE NEXT DAY AND IT HAS A STAMP ON IT YOU'RE OKAY?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: YOU ALREADY ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. I

DON'T KNOW ABOUT SITTING IN THE ARMCHAIR.

MR. GOODELL: OH, OKAY.

MS. REYES: THAT'S ALL EMBELLISHMENT BUT...

MR. GOODELL: CERTAINLY, CERTAINLY. NOW IF WE

WERE TO HAVE A VOTER-APPROVED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT

AUTHORIZES NO EXCUSE ABSENTEE BALLOT SYSTEM, HOW WOULD THAT DIFFERENT

-- DIFFER FROM THIS SYSTEM?

(PAUSE)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. REYES: THAT'S NOT WHAT'S BEFORE US. THAT'S NOT

WHAT'S BEFORE US.

MR. GOODELL: OH, THAT'S NOT, OKAY. SO THE ONLY

WAY THIS DIFFERS, AM I CORRECT, THE ONLY WAY THIS DIFFERS FROM THE ACTUAL

PROCESS OF AN ABSENTEE BALLOT THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE IS THAT WHEN YOU

SEEK AN ABSENTEE BALLOT UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM YOU HAVE TO GIVE ONE

OF THE EXCUSES THAT YOU MENTIONED, RIGHT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT. THOSE ARE ENUMERATED IN THE

CONSTITUTION.

MR. GOODELL: SO -- SO WITH AN ABSENTEE BALLOT

APPLICATION YOU HAVE TO GIVE THE EXCUSE. UNDER THIS IT'S THE SAME

APPLICATION PROCESS BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE AN EXCUSE, RIGHT?

MS. REYES: THIS IS A SYSTEM THAT'S GOING TO BE

AVAILABLE TO ALL VOTERS.

MR. GOODELL: YES, ALL VOTERS WITHOUT AN EXCUSE,

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE ANY EXPLANATION, RIGHT? AND SO UP TO THAT POINT,

THAT'S THE FIRST THAT VOTERS WOULD (INAUDIBLE). LET'S SAY YOU SUBMIT AN

APPLICATION FOR ABSENTEE BALLOT, BOARD OF ELECTIONS SENDS YOU A BALLOT,

RIGHT? AND UNDER THIS SYSTEM THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE EARLY VOTING

BY MAIL, THEY SEND THE SAME BALLOT, RIGHT, TO THE SAME RESIDENCE OF THE

VOTER, CORRECT? IT'S NOT A DIFFERENT BALLOT OR ANYTHING, RIGHT? IT'S THE

SAME BALLOT.

MS. REYES: OF COURSE.

MR. GOODELL: YES. AND OF COURSE YOU FILL IT OUT

AND BOTH OF THEM REQUIRE YOU TO PUT IT IN AN INSIDE ENVELOPE AND THEN

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AN OUTSIDE ENVELOPE AND -- AND SEND IT BACK, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: AND SO THE LETTERS COMING FROM THE

BOARD OF ELECTIONS WOULD BE INDISTINGUISHABLE. IT'S GOING TO BE THE

SAME BALLOT, THE SAME ENVELOPE, THE SAME INTERNAL ENVELOPE. I MEAN

WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE NOT GOING TO PRINT UP DIFFERENT TYPES OF ENVELOPES,

RIGHT? WE JUST SEND THEM BACK AND -- AND THE BALLOTS THAT COME BACK

WILL BE IN THE SAME ENVELOPES AND THE SAME EXACT BALLOTS, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: I THINK THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY SAY --

BE DISTINGUISHED WHETHER IT'S AN ABSENTEE BALLOT THAT YOU REQUESTED

BECAUSE YOU HAVE ONE OF THE -- YOU MEET ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS TO

RECEIVE AN ABSENTEE BALLOT OR IF YOU'RE RECEIVING A VOTE BY MAIL BALLOT.

MR. GOODELL: AND OF COURSE, AS YOU KNOW, THE

LAW IS REALLY CLEAR, YOU CAN'T PUT ANY EXTRANEOUS MARKS ON A BALLOT. SO

IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN TAKE A RED STAMP ON THE BALLOT AND SAY, ABSENTEE

BALLOT, BOOM, AND THIS ONE, NO EXCUSE BALLOT, RIGHT? YOU CAN'T PUT ANY

MS. REYES: IT'S NOT NO EXCUSE, IT'S NOT NO EXCUSE

BALLOT. THAT'S NOT --

MR. GOODELL: WELL, WHAT EXCUSE DO YOU NEED TO

GET THIS BALLOT?

MS REYES: IT'S A MAIL-IN BALLOT.

MR. GOODELL: I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT'S NO EXCUSE,

RIGHT? WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS SEVERAL TIMES, YOU DON'T NEED TO GIVE AN

EXCUSE WHY YOU WANT IT, RIGHT?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. REYES: WHEN YOU CREATE A SYSTEM THAT'S

AVAILABLE TO ALL VOTERS, YOU DON'T NEED TO SAY THAT -- THAT YOU'RE NOT

GETTING AN EXCUSE.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY.

MS. REYES: YOU JUST --

(INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MR. GOODELL: YOU MENTIONED -- YOU MENTIONED

ARTICLE II, SECTION 7 OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION. OF COURSE IT SAYS THAT

THE VOTING -- SECRECY IN VOTING MUST BE PRESERVED. AND THEN IT SAYS THE

LEGISLATURE SHALL PROVIDE FOR IDENTIFICATION OF VOTERS THROUGH THEIR

SIGNATURES AND ALL CASES WHERE PERSONAL REGISTRATION IS REQUIRED AND

SHALL ALSO PROVIDE FOR THE SIGNATURES, AT THE TIME OF VOTING, OF ALL

PERSONS VOTING IN PERSON BY BALLOT OR VOTING MACHINE. NOW, IS IT YOUR

VIEW THAT EVEN THOUGH THESE BALLOTS ARE SENT OUT THAT IT'S STILL THE SAME

AS IN-PERSON VOTING?

(PAUSE)

MS. REYES: IT'S NOT IN-PERSON VOTING.

MR. GOODELL: I'M SORRY?

MS. REYES: IT'S NOT IN-PERSON VOTING.

MR. GOODELL: OH, IT'S NOT IN-PERSON VOTING AND

THEREFORE YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE THE PERSONAL SIGNATURES; IS THAT

CORRECT?

MS. REYES: YOU DO NEED A SIGNATURE ON THE BALLOT.

MR. GOODELL: OH, SO YOU DO NEED A PERSONAL

SIGNATURE ON THE RETURN ENVELOPE?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MS. REYES: YES.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. SO THE ONLY DIFFERENCE

BETWEEN THIS METHOD AND THE ONE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT ARTICLE II,

SECTION 2 ON THE ABSENTEE BALLOT IS YOU DON'T HAVE TO MEET ANY OF THOSE

CRITERIA FOR AN ABSENTEE BALLOT, RIGHT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. GOODELL: OKAY. AGAIN, THANK YOU VERY

MUCH. AND I APOLOGIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU KIND OF HAD TO WALK ME

THROUGH EACH OF THOSE LINES, BUT I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE

AND YOUR -- YOUR ANSWERS.

ON -- ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: ON THE BILL.

MR. GOODELL: SO WE HAVE TWO IDENTICAL

SYSTEMS -- I'M SORRY, WE HAVE TWO SYSTEMS. WE HAVE ONE WHERE THE

VOTER SUBMITS AN APPLICATION AND THEY HAVE TO GIVE AN EXCUSE WHY THEY

DON'T WANT TO VOTE IN PERSON. AND THAT'S CALLED ABSENTEE BALLOT. AND

WE HAVE A SECOND SYSTEM THAT'S BEING PROPOSED TODAY WHERE THE VOTER

SUBMITS AN APPLICATION AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE ANY EXPLANATION,

THERE'S NO EXCUSE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GIVE ANY EXCUSE. AND THEN THE

TWO PROCESSES COME BACK TOGETHER, DON'T THEY? IN BOTH CASES BOARD OF

ELECTIONS SENDS OUT THE IDENTICAL PAPERWORK, IDENTICAL ENVELOPES,

IDENTICAL BALLOTS. AND IN BOTH CASES THE VOTERS PRESUMABLY FILL THEM

OUT AND SEND THEM BACK, AND THEY SEND THEM BACK IN THE IDENTICAL

PROCESS. TWO ENVELOPES, YOU KNOW THE ROUTINE, IT GOES BACK TO THE

BOARD OF ELECTIONS. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS, ONE, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

AN EXCUSE, AND THE OTHER IS NO EXCUSE. NOW, IN BOTH CASES, AS THE

SPONSOR ACKNOWLEDGED, BOTH CASES -- I'M OUT OF TIME. OTHERWISE -- OH,

THAT'S RIGHT. I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TELL YOU THE DIFFERENCE.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: THANK YOU.

MS. SILLITTI.

MS. SILLITTI: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF

QUESTIONS?

MS. REYES: YES.

MS. STILLITTI: SORRY ABOUT MY VOICE. IT'S THE --

THE SMOKE HAS GOTTEN TO ME THE PAST COUPLE OF DAYS.

IN THE SYSTEM THAT WE'RE PROPOSING, DOES A REPUBLICAN

AND A DEMOCRAT HAVE TO REVIEW THE APPLICATIONS.

MS. REYES: YES.

MS. STILLITTI: IN THE SYSTEM WHEN THE BALLOTS --

WHEN THE BALLOTS GO OUT AND THEY COME BACK AND THEY HAVE A SIGNATURE,

DO A REPUBLICAN AND A DEMOCRAT, LIKE AS THEY DO NOW, HAVE TO REVIEW

THOSE BALLOTS?

MS. REYES: YES.

MS. STILLITTI: OKAY.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: ON THE BILL.

MS. STILLITTI: SO WHAT A DIFFERENCE A DAY MAKES.

YESTERDAY WE WERE TALKING ABOUT -- EVERYBODY WAS EXCITED ABOUT

INCREASING VOTER PARTICIPATION, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT TODAY. THERE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WAS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT FRAUD IN THIS DEBATE. I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE

SAYING DO WE NOT TRUST OUR FRIENDS AT THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, DO WE NOT

TRUST THE DEMOCRATIC -- DEMOCRAT MEMBERS, THE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS.

I ACTUALLY USED TO, FUN FACT, GINA FACT, I USED TO WORK AT THE NASSAU

COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS. SO I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THESE APPLICATIONS

LOOK LIKE, I KNOW WHAT GOES INTO THEM AND I EMPHATICALLY TRUST BOTH

THE REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS THAT WORK AT THE NASSAU COUNTY OF

BOARD OF ELECTIONS, IF ANY OF THEM ARE LISTENING RIGHT NOW. AND I TRUST

THAT WITH THIS SYSTEM THEY WILL DO AS THEY DO BEFORE. THEY WILL

DILIGENTLY REVIEW IT TO MAKE SURE THE VOTERS ARE WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE,

THAT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE, AND WHEN THAT BALLOT COMES BACK, THAT THEY

ARE IN FACT THEY ARE WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE. BUT I ALSO WANTED TO MAKE

MENTION OF SOMETHING THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT WHICH WAS NO

EXCUSE THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, WHICH IS NOT WHAT THIS IS, FOR THE

RECORD. IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ODD YEARS AND EVEN

YEARS LAST NIGHT. IT WAS AN ODD YEAR ELECTION. IT WAS IN FACT PROBABLY

ONE OF THE LOWEST VOTER TURNOUTS AND THE LOWEST PARTICIPATION. IT WAS

INCREDIBLY LOW. RESOUNDING WOULD NOT BE THE WORD I WOULD USE. AND

ALSO THERE WAS A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR MISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN TO

CONFUSE PEOPLE OF WHAT IT ACTUALLY DID, SO I WANTED TO STATE THAT FOR THE

RECORD. IT WAS SIMPLY IF SOMEBODY WANTED -- I HAD A CONSTITUENT, WE'LL

CALL HER BETTY TO NOT GIVE HER REAL NAME. SHE CAME UP TO ME AT AN

EVENT AND SHE GOES, I DON'T KNOW HOW I'M GOING TO VOTE. I WAS LIKE,

WELL, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? SHE LIKE, WELL, I WENT TO GO FILL OUT THE

ABSENTEE BALLOT APPLICATION AND NONE OF THE ABOVE THINGS APPLIED TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ME. I SAID, WELL, WHAT'S GOING ON? SHE SAID, WELL, I HAVE A REALLY BAD

CAR, I CAN'T AFFORD TO FIX IT AND I'M WORRIED THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK

ON ELECTION DAY AND I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THE POLLS, THAT'S

NOT SOMETHING I COULD WRITE ON MY BALLOT. WELL, OF COURSE, WE MADE

SURE BETTY GOT A RIDE TO THE POLL AND SHE WAS ABLE TO CAST HER VOTE. YOU

KNOW, IN HER 82 YEARS SHE HAD NEVER MISSED A SINGLE ELECTION AND I

WASN'T ABOUT TO LET THAT HAPPEN.

SO I JUST WANTED TO STATE THOSE THINGS FOR THE RECORD,

THAT WE HAD A GREAT CONVERSATION LAST NIGHT ABOUT INCREASING VOTER

PARTICIPATION AND THAT WE WANT MORE PEOPLE TO BE INVOLVED IN THE

PROCESS AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR FOLKS. AND I THINK THAT THIS BILL HERE

TONIGHT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE

THAT WE GIVE VOTERS THE CORRECT INFORMATION TONIGHT AND NOT

MISINFORMATION. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MS. SIMON.

MS. SIMON: YES.

ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: ON THE BILL.

MS. SIMON: SO I'M READING THIS BILL, AND I NOTICE

THAT IT DOES REQUIRE AN EXEMPLAR SIGNATURE AND IF ONE ISN'T AVAILABLE

FROM ANOTHER REGISTRY OR INCLUDING, FOR EXAMPLE, A STATE OR A LOCAL

AGENCY DESIGNATED IN THIS CHAPTER, YOU KNOW, WE DID DO ORIGINAL VOTER

REGISTRATION BY ONLINE THROUGH THE DMV, FOR EXAMPLE. THE LOCAL

BOARD OF ELECTIONS WILL NOT REJECT THE APPLICATION BUT WILL REQUIRE THE

VOTER TO SUBMIT A SIGNATURE. AND I POINT THIS OUT BECAUSE IN REALITY SO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MANY OF US HAVE FILLED OUT ONE OF THOSE FORMS BY THE STATE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS AND WE MAIL IT IN AND NOBODY KNOWS IF IT'S MY SIGNATURE OR

THE GUY NEXT DOOR'S SIGNATURE. IT COULD BE ANYBODY'S SIGNATURE. BUT

SOMEHOW OR OTHER BECAUSE IT'S ON A PIECE OF PAPER WE BELIEVE IT. THE

REALITY IS THAT THERE IS NO VERIFYING OF ANYTHING WHEN YOU ARE

REGISTERING TO VOTE BY SUBMITTING A REGULAR PAPER APPLICATION. SO --

AND THEN YOU GO TO VOTE IN PERSON, YOUR SIGNATURE SHOULD MATCH TO

SOME EXTENT BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S SIGNATURE CHANGES OVER TIME. THE

REALITY IS THAT WE DO HAVE SYSTEMS THAT CAN BE REVISED TO WORK FOR THIS

PARTICULAR PROGRAM. WE DO HAVE INSTANCES THROUGHOUT THE STATE WHERE

APPLICATIONS OR BALLOTS THAT WERE ACTUALLY THERE WEREN'T COUNTED FOR ONE

REASON OR ANOTHER BECAUSE THE LOCAL BOARD OF ELECTIONS DIDN'T PROCESS

THAT INFORMATION. THERE HAS BEEN NO FRAUD FOUND IN MAIL-IN BALLOTS

WHETHER THEY WERE ABSENTEE BALLOTS OR IN OTHER STATES MAIL-IN BALLOTS. IT

IS A VERY SECURE PROCESS. WE CAN DO IT. OTHER STATES DO IT. IN FACT,

OTHER STATES DO IT VERY REGULARLY WITH NO PROBLEM. SO I AM QUITE

CONFIDENT THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO INSTITUTE THIS PROGRAM AND I AM NOT

CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER BLOCKCHAIN IS USED. I KNOW THAT IN FACT IN

MANY, MANY OF OUR LOCAL BOARDS OF ELECTIONS, THEIR COMPUTER SYSTEMS

ARE -- ARE QUITE BASIC AND CONCERNS ABOUT BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY I

THINK ARE MISPLACED AT THIS JUNCTURE. SO THANK YOU. I WILL BE VOTING IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MR. TAGUE.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR PLEASE YIELD?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. REYES: YES.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: THE SPONSOR

YIELDS.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU. I'LL BE BRIEF. BUT FIRST I

WANT TO START OFF WITH, WHY DID THIS BILL NOT GO THROUGH ELECTION LAW

COMMITTEE?

MS. REYES: IT JUST WASN'T READY AT THE TIME.

MR. TAGUE: WELL, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK IT'S READY

NOW THEN? I MEAN THIS IS DISTURBING. THIS IS THE SECOND BILL IN TWO

NIGHTS THAT NEVER WENT THROUGH ELECTION LAW COMMITTEE WHERE WE

HAVE PROFESSIONALS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE THAT ARE EXPERIENCED,

SOME ARE ATTORNEYS, THAT WERE NOT ABLE TO LOOK AT THESE BILLS, BRIEF THEM

AND GO BACK TO THEIR CONFERENCES AND DISCUSS THIS BILL. WE FOUND OUT

ABOUT THIS BILL A DAY -- A DAY OR SO -- WELL, WHO KNOWS NOW. WE'VE

BEEN HERE FOR TWO DAYS WITH ABOUT A THREE-HOUR BREAK SO... BUT SAME

DIFFERENT -- THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENED WITH THE BILL LAST NIGHT. YOUR

COLLEAGUES SAT DOWN THERE AND TOLD ME THAT THE BILL WASN'T PREPARED.

SO IT'S PREPARED NOW FOR US TO VOTE ON? I -- I DON'T GET IT, I DON'T GET IT.

ANOTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO BRIEF ON. IN ELECTION

LAW, SECTION 2, IT STATES THE LEGISLATURE MAY, BY GENERAL LAW, PROVIDE A

MANNER IN WHICH, AND THE TIME AND PLACE AT WHICH, QUALIFIED VOTERS

WHO, ON THE OCCURRENCE OF ANY ELECTION, MAY BE ABSENT FROM THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

COUNTY OF THEIR RESIDENCE OR, IF RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, FROM

THE CITY, AND QUALIFIED VOTERS WHO, ON THE OCCURRENCE OF ANY ELECTION,

MAY BE UNABLE TO APPEAR PERSONALLY AT THE POLLING PLACE. SO UNABLE TO

VOTE IN THE POLLING PLACE, SECTION 2. SECTION 7, ALL ELECTIONS BY THE

CITIZENS, EXCEPT FOR SUCH TOWN OFFICERS AS MAY BY LAW BE DIRECTED TO BE

OTHERWISE CHOSEN, SHALL BE BY BALLOT, OR BY SUCH OTHER METHOD AS MAY

BE PRESCRIBED BY LAW, PROVIDED THAT SECRECY IN VOTING BE PRESERVED.

THE LEGISLATURE SHALL PROVIDE FOR IDENTIFICATION OF VOTERS THROUGH THEIR

SIGNATURES IN ALL CASES WHERE PERSONAL REGISTRATION IS REQUIRED AND SHALL

ALSO PROVIDE FOR THE SIGNATURES, AT THE TIME OF VOTING.

MS. REYES: MR. TAGUE, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR

ME?

MR. TAGUE: I DO.

MS. REYES: OKAY.

MR. TAGUE: I'M ASKING YOU WHICH PART OF THE LAW

DOES THIS BILL FALL UNDER? I BELIEVE YOU SAID EARLIER UNDER SECTION 7.

MS. REYES: ARTICLE II, SECTION 7 --

MR. TAGUE: ABSOLUTELY NOT.

MS. REYES: -- OF THE CONSTITUTION.

MR. TAGUE: ABSOLUTELY NOT. IT FALLS UNDER SECTION

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

AGAIN, INCREDIBLY UNPREPARED BRINGING ANOTHER

UNCONSTITUTIONAL BILL AND WASTE OUR TIME AFTER WE'VE BEEN HERE FOR TWO

DAYS. ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS WASTING THE TAXPAYER'S TIME AND THE

386

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

CITIZENS OF NEW YORK TO STEAL ELECTIONS. ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. YOU

OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES. AND TO CIRCUMVENT COMMITTEES

THAT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US SERVE ON WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE

PROFESSIONALS, PEOPLE THAT HAVE EXPERIENCE, SOME THAT ARE ELECTION

LAW ATTORNEYS THAT SIT ON THOSE COMMITTEES AND NOT ALLOW THEM THE

TIME TO GO THROUGH AND BRIEF THE BILLS AND BRIEF THE PEOPLE WITHIN THEIR

CONFERENCE TO BE ABLE TO COME ON THE FLOOR AND SPEAK INTELLIGENTLY.

THIS IS A SHAM. YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES. OUGHT TO BE

ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES. I VOTE NO. I STAND -- I STAND FOR AMERICA AND I

STAND FOR THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND THE UNITED

STATES CONSTITUTION AND EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU SHOULD, TOO.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MS. WALKER.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. REYES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: THE SPONSOR

YIELDS.

MS. WALKER: THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT WORK THAT

YOU ARE DOING ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WHICH WE BELIEVE IS

IMPORTANT.

SO A FEW OF OUR COLLEAGUES HERE HAVE BEEN ASKING

ABOUT THE TYPE OF BALLOT THAT WILL BE RECEIVED IN THE VOTE-BY-MAIL

SCENARIO. SO IS THE BALLOT THAT'S GOING TO BE RECEIVED BY THE VOTER THE

387

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SAME FOR ABSENTEE BALLOTS, VOTE-BY-MAIL BALLOTS AS WELL AS IN-PERSON

VOTING BALLOTS?

MS. REYES: THE BALLOT, YES, BUT THE ENVELOPE IN

WHICH IT COMES IN DELINEATES WHETHER IT IS AN ABSENTEE BALLOT OR A

VOTE-BY-MAIL BALLOT.

MS. WALKER: ABSOLUTELY. AND SO I SUBMIT TO YOU

THAT THE DISTINCTIONS THAT ARE BEING MADE BY MANY OF OUR COLLEAGUES

HERE TODAY IS A DISTINCTION WITHOUT A DIFFERENCE, BECAUSE

NOTWITHSTANDING HOW IT IS THAT A VOTER VOTES FOR A PARTICULAR ELECTION

WHETHER IT IS THROUGH ABSENTEE BALLOT, WHETHER IT IS BY VOTE-BY-MAIL OR

WHETHER IT IS IN-PERSON VOTING. THE BALLOTS ARE UTILIZING THE WORDS THAT

I'VE BEEN HEARING THIS EVENING WILL ALL BE AN IDENTICAL BALLOT. THANK

YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

MS. REYES: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: AND MR. GIGLIO.

MR. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I'VE

HEARD A LOT OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS ABOUT MORE TURNOUT. WE'RE DOING ALL

OF THESE THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE COME OUT AND VOTE. BUT I ASK

MYSELF, AND YOU SHOULD ALL ASK YOURSELF THE SAME QUESTION, WHY AREN'T

PEOPLE COMING OUT TO VOTE ANYMORE? WHY HAS IT DIMINISHED YEAR IN

AND YEAR OUT? DO WE HAVE TO HAVE GIMMICKS NOW TO GET PEOPLE TO

VOTE? EVEN YEARS, NO RESPONSE, WHATEVER WE'RE CALLING THIS ONE. AND

THE NEXT TWO AND SOME MORE THAT ARE COMING. I'LL TELL YOU WHY THEY'RE

NOT COMING OUT, BECAUSE WE'VE LOST THEIR TRUST. THE PUBLIC DOES NOT

TRUST US ANYMORE. THEY DO NOT THINK THEIR VOTE MATTERS. THEY DO NOT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THINK ANYTHING WILL CHANGE. IT'S NOT JUST US. LOOK AT THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT. IT'S A JOKE. EVERYTHING ABOUT IT IS A JOKE. NOW

PARTISANSHIP IS 24/7 365 DAYS A YEAR. THAT'S NOT WHAT IT WAS INTENDED

TO BE. IT WAS INTENDED TO WE'D GO OUT, HAVE A BATTLE OF IDEAS, THOSE OF

US THAT WERE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE SENT HERE WOULD THEN WORK

TOGETHER TO MAKE NEW YORK A BETTER PLACE. THE SAME FOR CONGRESS,

THE SAME FOR THE SENATE. BUT INSTEAD NOW ALL WE HAVE DONE THE LAST

TWO DAYS IS PARTISAN STUFF THAT SAID YOU'RE GOOD, WE'RE GOOD, YOU'RE BAD,

YOU'RE BAD, THAT'S ALL WE EVER DO. WE HAVE A STATE THAT WE NEED TO SAVE.

WE SIT IN A CHAMBER WHOSE HISTORY IS SO GREAT, AND YET ALL WE DO IS

BICKER. BICKER FOR WHAT? FOR THE NEXT ELECTION? FOR WHAT? WHY DID

WE COME HERE? SO THAT THE NEXT ELECTION STARTS THE DAY AFTER WE FINISH?

WE'RE A GOOD BODY. THERE ARE GOOD PEOPLE IN THIS HOUSE. AND WE

CAN DO GREAT THINGS AND GOOD THINGS TOGETHER BUT NO. NO, WE NEVER DO

IT TOGETHER. IT HAS TO BE ON THAT SIDE OF THE AISLE OR THAT ONE. SO YOU

BRING US STUFF, WE TELL YOU HOW BAD IT IS. AND WHEN WE'RE DONE TELLING

YOU THAT, YOU TELL US HOW BAD WE ARE. IS THAT THE WAY THIS IS SUPPOSED

TO BE? SO YOU WONDER WHY WHEN YOU GUYS GO DOOR TO DOOR - WE WERE

TALKING ABOUT THAT YESTERDAY - WHAT DO PEOPLE TELL YOU? THIS DOESN'T

WORK ANYMORE. THE GREAT AMERICAN EXPERIMENT IS FAILING AND IT'S

FAILING ON OUR WATCH. AND WE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF OURSELVES

BECAUSE OF THAT. NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT THIS BILL SAYS OR DOESN'T SAY, NONE

OF THAT. WHAT WE SHOULD BE SAYING IS, WHY DID WE COME HERE? AND I'LL

BET YOU IF YOU POLLED EVERY ONE OF US, WE'D ALL SAY TO DO SOMETHING

GOOD, NOT JUST FOR OUR DISTRICT BUT FOR THE WHOLE DARN STATE OF NEW

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

YORK. AND I SIT HERE, AND LIKE I SAID, EVERY DAY AND EVEN WHEN I'M

HOME I SAY, ONE OF THE PROUDEST THINGS I'VE EVER HAD WAS TO BE ABLE TO

WALK THROUGH THOSE DOORS AND WORK IN THIS CHAMBER, TO SIT IN THIS

CAPITOL. AND THIS IS ALL I HEAR EVERY YEAR, YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT NO

MATTER WHO'S HERE AND WHO'S NOT. AT SOME POINT, PEOPLE, WE HAVE TO

COME TOGETHER AS A BODY AND DO WHAT WE WERE INTENDED TO DO. THIS IS

NOT WHAT WE'RE INTENDED TO DO. YOU DON'T NEED THE ADVANTAGE. YOU

WIN AN ELECTION OUTSIDE ON IDEAS. THE MAJORITY IS A SUPERMAJORITY.

WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT? GOD IN HEAVEN. THIS IS

DISGRACEFUL. LET'S GET TOGETHER FOR ONCE AND DO GOOD THINGS TOGETHER

WHEN WE'RE DONE. NOT BE AFRAID OF HOW WE VOTE, WHAT WE DO AND

WORRY ABOUT THE NEXT ELECTION AND WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING TO COME

FROM AND HOW THE MONEY IS GOING TO BE SPENT AND THAT'S -- THAT'S GOING

TO MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER. IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A JOB THAT YOU DON'T

WANT TO LOSE, JOIN THE SERVICE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST,

2024.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY NO ON THIS BILL. THOSE WHO

WISH TO VOTE FOR IT ARE ENCOURAGED TO DO SO ON THE FLOOR. THANK YOU,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY INTERESTED IN MAKING

SURE THAT EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO VOTING SO WE ARE GOING TO BE IN FAVOR

OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GOODELL TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ARTICLE II OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION IS ACTUALLY QUITE SIMPLE. IT SETS

FORTH TWO WAYS YOU CAN VOTE IN NEW YORK. ONE IS BY ABSENTEE BALLOT,

THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE ABSENT FROM THE POLLING PLACE. AND TWO, IN PERSON.

AND AS YOU MIGHT GUESS, THAT'S WHEN YOU SHOW UP AT THE POLLING PLACE.

THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO WAYS AUTHORIZED IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION, IT'S

PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. IT'S EITHER IN PERSON, IN WHICH CASE YOU GOT TO

SHOW UP IN PERSON. YOU CAN'T SEND AN AGENT OR ANYONE ELSE AND YOU

HAVE TO SIGN. OR, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOW UP. YOU CAN BE ABSENT, IN

WHICH CASE YOU HAVE TO ASK FOR AN ABSENTEE BALLOT. IT'S ABUNDANTLY

CLEAR. THIS SYSTEM ALLOWS YOU TO BE ABSENT FROM THE POLLING PLACE

WITHOUT ASKING FOR AN ABSENTEE BALLOT. IT IS EXACTLY THE PROCESS THAT THE

VOTERS REJECTED. NOW YOU MAY THINK THE VOTERS WERE WRONG, BUT I

THINK WE STILL HAVE TO RESPECT WHAT THEY DID, AND THEY SAID NO. IF YOU

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

DON'T WANT TO VOTE IN PERSON, YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE ABSENTEE

BALLOT PROCESS AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN EXCUSE. THIS IS NO EXCUSE.

ABSENTEE BALLOT WAS EXPRESSLY REJECTED BY THE VOTERS. AND THEREFORE, I

CAN'T SUPPORT IT AND I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE ELSE DOES

EITHER. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MR. DIPIETRO.

MR. DIPIETRO: TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE, MADAM

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: TO EXPLAIN YOUR

VOTE.

MR. DIPIETRO: FIRST OFF, THERE'S A GROUP CALLED

NEW YORK CITIZENS AUDIT THAT'S BEEN GOING AROUND THE STATE SINCE

BEFORE AND AFTER THIS LAST ELECTION. IN 2022, THEY FOUND - IT'S AN

INDEPENDENT GROUP - THEY FOUND OVER 340,000 FRAUDULENT VOTES SO FAR,

THEY'RE STILL GOING COUNTY TO COUNTY. IT'S A LOT OF VOTES. EIGHTY-FIVE

PERCENT OF THEM ARE FROM THE CITIES, 65 PERCENT I THINK ARE FROM -- 65

PERCENT PROBABLY ARE FROM NEW YORK CITY APPROXIMATELY, I THINK.

ALSO, THAT REPORT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO EVERYONE IN THE STATE. CONTINUALLY

FROM THE GOVERNOR AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, THEY REFUSED TO DO

ANYTHING WITH IT. ALSO, A GENTLEMAN, A SCIENTIST IN THIS COUNTRY, CAME

TO NEW YORK WHO IS A COMPUTER EXPERT AROUND THE WORLD AND SPENT A

LONG TIME THIS PAST YEAR CHECKING THE VOTING MACHINES AND THE COUNTY

ROLLS AND FOUND NOT ONE, NOT TWO, NOT THREE, BUT FOUR ALGORITHMS THAT

WERE INSERTED ILLEGALLY INTO THESE MACHINES AND HAVE CORRUPTED VOTES

THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE. HE'S TRYING TO GET THAT REPORT UP INTO NEW

392

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

YORK STATE TO TOP, THEY WON'T TAKE IT. SO YOU CAN SEE WHY THERE'S A LOT

OF SUSPICION, BUT I JUST TAKE IT A DIFFERENT WAY, YOU KNOW. I KNOW THAT

THIS IS GOING TO PASS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS WITH NO EXCUSE

VOTING. WE GOT IT RIGHT HERE IN THE CHAMBER, JUST LOOK AROUND. EVERY

DAY AFTER DAY THIS YEAR, NOBODY'S IN THEIR SEATS. IT'S NO EXCUSE. SO GOD

BLESS THEM. I'M ALL FOR IT.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MR. LAVINE.

MR. LAVINE: I JUST WANT -- I WANT TO THANK THE

SPONSOR FOR THE WAY SHE HANDLED ALL THE -- ALL THE QUESTIONS AND THIS IS

AN INTERESTING CONCEPT THAT'S BEING ADVANCED. BUT I DO WANT TO

COMMENT ON A COUPLE THINGS MENTIONED BY A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS

ACROSS THE AISLE. I'M NOT SO SURE THE AMERICAN EXPERIMENT HAS FAILED.

WHEN WE GO BACK INTO HISTORY, EVEN THOUGH ADAMS AND JEFFERSON WERE

BITTER ENEMIES, THEY RECONCILED, THEY BOTH DIED I THINK ON THE 50TH

ANNIVERSARY OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. AND THEY'RE

CORRESPONDENCE MAKES CLEAR THAT -- AND WE HAVE THEIR CORRESPONDENCE.

THEY WERE VERY DISAPPOINTED IN AMERICANS BECAUSE THOSE AMERICANS

WEREN'T LIVING UP TO THEIR EXPECTATIONS. I THINK THERE MIGHT BE

SOMETHING JUST VERY INHERENT IN BEING AN AMERICAN. SO DON'T GIVE UP

ON THE AMERICAN EXPERIMENT. AND TO MY OTHER FRIEND ACROSS THE AISLE

WHO VOICED SUCH STRONG SUPPORT FOR THE CONSTITUTION, I JUST WANT TO --

AND I DON'T SEE HIM HERE RIGHT NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE MAY HAVE

GONE, BUT I ALSO SUPPORT THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AS DOES

HOPEFULLY ALMOST EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM. I THINK ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO

HELP PEOPLE VOTE IS GOOD, AND I CONTINUE TO SAY WHAT I SAID YESTERDAY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WHICH IS THAT I TRUST THE VOTERS. SO I'M GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE -- IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MS. REYES.

MS. REYES: YOU KNOW, I MAY NOT SIT ON THE

ELECTION COMMITTEE AND I MAY NOT BE A LAWYER, BUT I SURE AS HELL SIT IN

THIS CHAMBER - SORRY - AS A CLINICAL PROFESSIONAL AND HEAR PEOPLE OPINE

ON MEDICAL PROCEDURES, CONDITIONS, YOU NAME IT. BUT I CAN READ, AND

I'LL READ THIS. THE COURT OF APPEALS HAS DESCRIBED THE LEGISLATORS' -- THE

LEGISLATURE'S POWER TO PRESCRIBE THE METHOD OF CONDUCTING ELECTIONS AS

PLENARY, SUBJECT ONLY TO THE LIMITATIONS EXPLICITLY PLACED UPON IT BY THE

CONSTITUTION AND FEDERAL LAW. AND THE CASE LAW HAS BEEN CLEAR IN

SAYING THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY WITHIN OUR CONSTITUTIONAL POWER TO DO.

UM, SO I AM HAPPY TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AND I'M

HAPPY TO BE ABLE TO EXPAND ACCESS TO THE BALLOT TO SO MANY NEW

YORKERS, BECAUSE IF OUR INTEREST IS ULTIMATELY TO INCREASE PARTICIPATION,

THIS IS ONE WAY THAT WE DO IT. AND THIS -- THIS ACCESS TO THE BALLOT

DOESN'T KNOW DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN. IT JUST KNOWS SOMEBODY WHO

IS GONNA BE HAVING AN EASIER TIME AT CASTING THEIR VOTE IN THE FUTURE.

SO THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, I -- MADAM SPEAKER, I

VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MR. CURRAN.

MR. CURRAN: MADAM SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY

VOTE. SO, I HAVE FOUR CHILDREN AND THEY RANGE FROM 21, 18, 15 AND THEN

I HAVE A THIRD-GRADER WHO I KINDLY -- KINDLY REFER TO AS MY

NON-RETIREMENT BABY. SO WHAT THEY WERE EXPLAINING TO ME, I HAD A

394

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING THE WORD OR THE PHRASE "GASLIGHTING." AND I

HAD MY 21- AND 18-YEAR-OLD EXPLAIN GASLIGHTING TO ME JUST LAST WEEK.

AND WHAT I ALWAYS HAD A PROBLEM WITH, OR WHAT I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND

IS WHEN PEOPLE SAY SOMETHING TO YOU AND IT HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATIVELY

PROVEN NOT TO BE THE CASE. WE HAVE A BILL IN FRONT OF US THAT WITH THE

EXCEPTION OF THREE WORDS IS THE EXACT SAME REFERENDUM THAT WENT

BEFORE THE PEOPLE IN 2021 AND WAS REJECTED BY 60 PERCENT. THAT IS

GASLIGHTING. IF YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME IF YOU TRUST THE VOTERS AND THEN

COME BACK HERE AND DO SOMETHING EXACTLY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THE

VOTERS WANT.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I'M VOTING IN THE

NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER LUPARDO: MR. MAHER.

MR. MAHER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I

DEFINITELY APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE, AND I COMPLETELY AGREE. THE GREAT

AMERICAN EXPERIMENT IS NOT DEAD, IT'S ALIVE AND WELL, IT'S ALIVE AND

WELL IN THIS CHAMBER WITH SO MANY FOLKS. AND I HEARD AGAIN IN A -- IN

A PREVIOUS DEBATE AND I HEARD AGAIN JUST NOW FROM MY COLLEAGUE, TRUST

THE VOTERS. AND I DO. I THINK A LOT OF US IN THIS CHAMBER - I DON'T WANT

TO SPEAK FOR EVERYONE - BUT I HOPE EVERYONE ALSO TRUSTS THE VOTERS. I

ALSO TRUST POLITICAL OPERATIVES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE TO BE POLITICAL

OPERATIVES AND TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO WIN ELECTIONS.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW IS REAL. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE

KNOW IS TRUE. AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'LL BE VOTING NO ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT VOTERS HAVE THE ABILITY TO VOTE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THROUGH EARLY VOTING, THROUGH THE NATURAL ABSENTEE PROCESS AND ON

ELECTION DAY. SO IN A CLIMATE WHERE WE KNOW COUNTLESS NEW YORKERS

HAVE ISSUES WITH ELECTION INTEGRITY, WE ARE CREATING MORE OPPORTUNITIES

FOR DISTRUST AND MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR POLITICAL OPERATIVES ON BOTH

SIDES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS SYSTEM, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S

SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD EVEN BE CONSIDERING.

THE SECOND ASPECT OF VOTING NO OBVIOUSLY IS, YOU

KNOW, THERE IS GOING TO BE A COST TO THIS AND THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE

AN ALLOTMENT ATTACHED. YOU LOOK AT THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, YOU LOOK AT THE

LOCAL ELECTIONS AND THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, THIS CERTAINLY WILL BE AN

UNFUNDED MANDATE.

SO FOR ALL THOSE REASONS AND MANY MORE, I WILL BE

VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PALMESANO TO

EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. PALMESANO: YES, MR. SPEAKER, TO BRIEFLY

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I WASN'T GOING TO SPEAK, BUT THROUGHOUT THIS DEBATE

AND YESTERDAY I HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN FROM OUR FRIENDS ON THE

OTHER SIDE, "I TRUST THE VOTERS, I TRUST THE VOTERS." THAT'S NOT THE

PROBLEM. THE VOTERS DON'T TRUST US, THAT'S THE PROBLEM. AND WHO CAN

BLAME THEM? THE PROPOSAL WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US IS THE SAME -- PRETTY

MUCH THE SAME PROPOSAL THE VOTERS OVERWHELMINGLY REJECTED ON THE

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT. EVERYONE IN THIS CHAMBER KNOWS IT, THE

LANGUAGE IS VERY SIMILAR. SO WHY WOULD THEY TRUST US WHEN THEY SEND

US A MESSAGE AND SAY, WE DON'T WANT IT, BUT THEN WE COME BACK WITH

396

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE SAME THING OVER AGAIN, SAYING WE KNOW BETTER OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THE HYPOCRISY AND ARROGANCY JUST IS SO EVIDENT BY THIS. SO, YOU CAN

SAY YOU TRUST THE VOTERS ALL YOU WANT. WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THE

VOTERS DON'T TRUST US. THAT'S THE PROBLEM, AND THAT'S WHY WE SHOULD

REJECT THIS PROPOSAL. AND THAT'S WHAT WHY I'M REJECTING THE PROPOSAL. I

VOTE NO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. PALMESANO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES,

WE'RE GOING TO PIVOT A LITTLE BIT AND GO TO RULES REPORT NO. 450 -- 670,

RULES REPORT NO. 670 BY MR. BRONSON, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO GO TO

OUR A-CALENDAR SO THAT WE MIGHT CONSENT IT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

PAGE 18, RULES REPORT NO. 670, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S01783-A, RULES REPORT

NO. 670, SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL (A00372-A, BRONSON, SEAWRIGHT,

DINOWITZ, GLICK, SIMONE, SEPTIMO, KIM, EPSTEIN, BURDICK, SIMON,

SILLITTI, CLARK, FORREST). AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL AND TRANSGENDER

AND PEOPLE LIVING WITH HIV LONG-TERM CARE FACILITY RESIDENTS' BILL

397

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

OF RIGHTS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BRONSON, AN

EXPLANATION IS REQUESTED.

MR. BRONSON: YES, MR. SPEAKER. THIS BILL

ESTABLISHES PROTECTIONS FOR INDIVIDUALS -- I'M SORRY, WRONG BILL.

(LAUGHTER)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: DON'T WORRY, IT'S LATE.

YOU CAN MAKE A SLIP.

MR. BRONSON: THEY MOVED THE ORDER ON ME, I

APOLOGIZE. THIS BILL WOULD ESTABLISH AN LGBT AND PEOPLE LIVING WITH

HIV LONG-TERM CARE FACILITY RESIDENTS' BILL OF RIGHTS BY PROHIBITING

DISCRIMINATION BASED ON A RESIDENT'S ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED GENDER

IDENTITY OR EXPRESSION, SEXUAL EXPRESSION OR HIV STATUS. OF COURSE THE

BILL WOULD FOLLOW THE CURRENT LAW WHICH IS UNDER THE GENDER

EXPRESSION NONDISCRIMINATION ACT.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. SIMPSON.

MR. JENSEN: JENSEN.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: JENSEN, I'M SORRY.

MR. JENSEN: IT'S ALL RIGHT, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

MR. BRONSON: YES, I WILL, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BRONSON YIELDS.

MR. JENSEN: IF I -- ONE QUESTION, MR. BRONSON. SO

I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE PROVISION OF THE BILL IN REGARDS TO THE OCCUPANCY

OF A ROOM IN A NURSING HOME. WOULD THIS BILL OF RIGHTS EXTEND TO

398

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

WHEN A PERSON IS GOING THROUGH THE ADMISSIONS PROCESS IN A NURSING

HOME AND IS A TRANSGENDER INDIVIDUAL, THEIR GENDER IDENTITY WOULD BE

TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT BOTH ON THEIR SIDE OF THE EQUATION THROUGH THE

ADMISSIONS PROCESS, AS WELL AS IF THEY ARE BEING -- WHEN THEY ARE BEING

PLACED IN A DOUBLE-OCCUPANCY ROOM WITH A BIOLOGICAL INDIVIDUAL OF

EITHER GENDER; IS THAT CORRECT? AND EVERY OTHER ACT OF PRIVACY FOR EACH

OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS, WHETHER IT'S USE OF A BATHROOM OR ANY OTHER ASPECT

OF THAT SHARED-OCCUPANCY ROOM WOULD BE RESPECTED ON BOTH SIDES OF

THOSE RESIDENTS IN THAT ENVIRONMENT?

MR. BRONSON: CERTAINLY. AS I MENTIONED IN THE

SUMMARY OF THE BILL, NOTHING IN THIS BILL WOULD CHANGE THE REQUIREMENT

THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW THE GENDER EXPRESSION

NONDISCRIMINATION ACT, WHICH IS ARTICLE 15 OF THE EXECUTIVE LAW OR

COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW, AND UNDER THAT, ALTHOUGH

ACCOMMODATIONS CAN BE MADE AND I WOULD HOPE THAT FACILITIES WOULD

WORK IN COOPERATION, CERTAINLY THE TRANSGENDER INDIVIDUAL COULD NOT BE

MOVED OUT OF A ROOM. BUT I WOULD HOPE THAT IN THE SCENARIO LIKE THAT

THE -- EVERYONE WOULD AND THE FACILITY WOULD WANT EVERYONE TO FEEL

WELCOME, WOULD WANT EVERYONE TO FEEL TREATED FAIRLY. SO I -- I WOULD

HOPE THAT ACCOMMODATIONS WOULD BE MADE. HOWEVER, GENDA WOULD

NOT ALLOW THEM TO FORCEFULLY REMOVE TO A DIFFERENT ROOM THE

TRANSGENDER INDIVIDUAL.

MR. JENSEN: SO THE SAME IDEA THAT WHEN YOU'RE

GOING THROUGH THE ADMISSIONS PROCESS AS SOMEBODY WOULD NOW, THEY

WOULD HAVE SPECIFIC REQUESTS AND THEY WOULD BE CONSULTED, EVERY

399

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MEMBER OF THAT ROOM WOULD BE CONSULTED AND TO ENSURE THAT EVERYBODY

WHO IS LIVING IN THAT FACILITY IN A WAY THAT THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH

AND FEEL SAFE AND SECURE AND TREATED WITH DIGNITY, CORRECT?

MR. BRONSON: YES, THAT WOULD BE THE GOAL OF -- OF

THIS BILL.

MR. JENSEN: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

BRONSON; THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU. WOULD THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. BRONSON, WILL

YOU YIELD?

MR. BRONSON: YES, I WILL.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE SPONSOR YIELDS,

SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. BRONSON. YOU

MENTIONED THAT THIS IS ALREADY COVERED BY GENDA, THE GENDA LAW.

MR. BRONSON: WELL, WHAT I MENTIONED IS WE

WOULD STILL BE -- IF THAT WOULD COME INTO PLAY WE'D STILL HAVE TO FOLLOW

GENDA, AND CERTAINLY THERE'S GUIDANCE WITH GENDA IN THE SCENARIO

OF USE OF VARIOUS FACILITIES.

MR. GOODELL: ARE NURSING HOMES CURRENTLY

EXEMPT FROM THE GENDA LAW?

MR. BRONSON: NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

400

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. GOODELL: HOW IS THIS BILL DIFFERENT THAN WHAT

GENDA WOULD IMPOSE ANYWAY?

MR. BRONSON: BECAUSE THE BILL ADDS OTHER THINGS.

IT HAS A LIST OF REQUIREMENTS THAT A NURSING HOME WOULD HAVE TO DO THAT

IS ABOVE AND BEYOND THE SPECIFICS THAT YOU'D FIND IN GENDA AND THE

REGULATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED UNDER GENDA.

MR. GOODELL: AND WHAT ARE THOSE SPECIFIC THINGS

THAT THIS BILL ADDS?

MR. BRONSON: SO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE BILL THERE'S A

-- A NUMBER OF THEM. IT SPECIFICALLY RELATES TO LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES.

THEY COULDN'T DENY ADMISSION, COULDN'T TRANSFER OR REFUSE TO TRANSFER A

RESIDENT WITHIN THE FACILITY BASED ON THE INDIVIDUAL'S STATUS OF THEIR

GENDER STATUS, AS WELL AS HIV STATUS. THEY ALSO COULDN'T WILLFULLY OR

REPEATEDLY FAIL TO USE A RESIDENT'S PREFERRED NAME OR PRONOUNS; THAT'S

NOT SPECIFICALLY COVERED UNDER GENDA. THEY COULDN'T DENY A

RESIDENT THE RIGHT TO WEAR CERTAIN CLOTHING AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE;

THAT'S INDIRECTLY COVERED UNDER GENDA. AND THERE'S A SERIES OF EIGHT

OF THEM.

MR. GOODELL: DOES GENDA COVER HIV?

MR. BRONSON: I DON'T BELIEVE GENDA COVERS

HIV.

MR. GOODELL: AND DOES SOMEONE WHO'S -- I

MEAN, I KNOW THEY'VE MADE, YOU KNOW, MASSIVE PROGRESS OVER THE

YEARS IN TREATING HIV. IS ALL HIV NOW TREATABLE TO THE POINT WHERE IT

DOESN'T PRESENT ANY RISK TO ANYONE ELSE?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MR. BRONSON: IF AN INDIVIDUAL IS ON HIV

MEDICATION, A REGIMEN OF HIV MEDICATION, MORE OFTEN -- WELL, FOR

MANY PEOPLE, MOST PEOPLE, THEY BECOME UNDETECTABLE, WHICH MEANS

THAT THEY'RE NOT SUSCEPTIBLE TO OTHER ILLNESSES AND DISEASES, AND ALSO

MEANS THAT IF THEY'RE UNDETECTABLE THEY CANNOT TRANSFER THAT VIRUS TO

ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL.

MR. GOODELL: ARE THERE SITUATIONS WHERE THAT

MEDICATION IS INEFFECTIVE THAT MIGHT PRESENT AN ISSUE TO A NURSING

HOME?

MR. BRONSON: I -- I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT THAT

QUESTION?

MR. GOODELL: ARE THERE ANY SIT -- SITUATIONS

WHERE THAT MEDICATION IS INEFFECTIVE AND THE PATIENT MIGHT PRESENT A

RISK TO THE -- TO THE NURSING HOME OR THE HEALTH OF THE OTHER RESIDENTS?

MR. BRONSON: IF APPROPRIATE PRECAUTIONS ARE

TAKEN, NO.

MR. GOODELL: I SEE. SO BY AND LARGE, I MEAN, IT

SOUNDS LIKE 90 PERCENT OF YOUR BILL IS ALREADY COVERED, YOU JUST WANT TO

MAKE IT CLEAR IN -- IN A BILL OF RIGHTS, IF YOU WILL, AND YOU WANTED TO

ADD HIV POSITIVE WHICH WOULD NOT OTHERWISE BE COVERED BY GENDA.

IS THAT A FAIR SUMMARY?

MR. BRONSON: NO, I WOULDN'T AGREE WITH YOUR

PERCENTAGE. I THINK SOME OF IT MIGHT BE COVERED, BUT NOT ALL OF IT. AND

-- AND THE BILL SPECIFICALLY TALKS ABOUT LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES AND

NURSING HOMES, WHEREAS GENDA DOESN'T GET INTO THOSE SPECIFICS. IN

402

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ADDITION, THE BILL ALSO REQUIRES A POSTING OF A NON-DISCRIMINATION NOTICE

THAT CERTAINLY IS NOT UNDER GENDA.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I APPRECIATE

YOUR COMMENTS.

MR. BRONSON: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 180 DAYS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. BENDETT TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BENDETT: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR THE

OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR -- FOR

MAKING THIS BILL. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, HERE WE ARE,

JUST THIS PAST BILL ARGUING IN DEBATING AND, YOU KNOW, CALLING EACH

OTHER -- YOU KNOW, WHATEVER WAS HAPPENING. BUT SOMETIMES, YOU

KNOW, PEOPLE DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER. AND FOR ME, I'M VOTING IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS BILL FOR MY UNCLES WHO HAVE HIV, MY UNCLE HAS

HIV AND -- AND FOR MY SIBLINGS, MY -- MY BROTHER-IN-LAW, SISTER-IN-LAW

WHO -- I'VE BEEN WITH MY WIFE FOR NEARLY 40 YEARS AND, YOU KNOW,

THEY'RE MY FAMILY, TOO. AND SO I'M VERY GRATEFUL THAT YOU WOULD MAKE

ACCOMMODATIONS JUST IN THE EVENT THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED TO THEM TO

MAKE SURE THAT THEY WERE TAKEN CARE OF IN THEIR AGE. AND AS MANY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

PEOPLE MIGHT BE AWARE THAT YOU CAN LIVE WITH HIV OR AIDS, YOU CAN

LIVE A LONG AND PRODUCTIVE LIFE, AND I'M VERY PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS BILL.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, SIR. MR.

BENDETT IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU, SIR.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 3, RULES REPORT NO. 787, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03287, RULES REPORT

NO. 787, JOYNER, SIMON, EPSTEIN, BURGOS, STIRPE, REYES, GIBBS,

HEVESI, SEPTIMO, MAHER, ZACCARO, RAGA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE "SCHOOLS IMPACTED BY

GROSS HIGHWAYS (SIGH) ACT."

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

JOYNER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05646-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 788, COOK, PEOPLES-STOKES, HYNDMAN, DICKENS, SIMON.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE COLLATERAL

ESTOPPEL EFFECT OF ISSUES DECIDED BY CERTAIN ARBITRATORS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

COOK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED

AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05874, RULES REPORT

404

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

NO. 789, WALKER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO

LEGAL CHALLENGES TO THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF PROVISIONS OF SUCH LAW.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

WALKER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06284-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 790, BEEPHAN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN

RELATION TO DESIGNATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM AS THE

"PRIVATE SIDNEY A. SCOFIELD MEMORIAL HIGHWAY."

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06505-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 791, MCDONALD, RAGA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE

LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING ELECTRONIC REPORTING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IN 180 DAYS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

405

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06651, RULES REPORT

NO. 792, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO ADDITIONAL MEMBER CONTRIBUTIONS FOR

CERTAIN MEMBERS UNDER THE AGE 57 RETIREMENT PROGRAM.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06795-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 793, BLANKENBUSH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HOUSING

LAW, IN RELATION TO THE TRANSFER OF THE VILLAGE OF WEST CARTHAGE

HOUSING AUTHORITY TO THE TOWN OF WILNA HOUSING AUTHORITY; AND TO

REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE PUBLIC HOUSING LAW RELATING THERETO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BLANKENBUSH, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07110, RULES REPORT

NO. 794, STERN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN

RELATION TO REQUIRING TOWERS TO CLEAN UP ANY DEBRIS IN THE SURROUNDING

AREA RESULTING FROM THE VEHICLES THEY ARE TOWING.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

STERN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED

AND THE BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07218, RULES REPORT

NO. 795, KIM, LUCAS, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, REYES, GIBBS, SIMON. AN ACT

TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO THE REPORTING AND

RESOLUTION OF ISSUES AT RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITIES; AND TO AMEND THE

ELDER LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING AN OUTREACH AND AWARENESS

PROGRAM TO PROMOTE AND RECRUIT LONG-TERM CARE OMBUDSMEN AND THE

TRAINING OF SUCH OMBUDSMEN.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

KIM, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

407

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. KIM TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. KIM: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME

TO EXPLAIN THE VOTE. AT THE PEAK OF COVID, IN THE FIRST YEAR OF

COVID, WE LOST 16,000 LIVES IN NURSING HOMES. THIS WAS A TRAVESTY

THAT COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF WE STARTED TO CENTER SOLUTIONS AROUND

THE FAMILIES, THE WORKERS ON THE GROUND, AND NOT SIDELINE THE PROGRAMS

LIKE OMBUDSMAN LONG-TERM CARE PROGRAM. AND THE REASON WHY WE

WE'RE PUSHING SO HARD NOW TO FOCUS ON IMPROVING THE LONG-TERM CARE

OMBUDSMAN, LTCOP, PROGRAM, IT'S PROBABLY THE ONLY PROGRAM IN THE

STATE THAT IS --- THAT IS LEGALLY EMPOWERED TO BE THE WATCHDOG AND

ADVOCATE FOR NURSING HOME AND LONG-TERM CARE FACILITY RESIDENTS. BUT

BECAUSE THIS PROGRAM DEPENDS ON FEDERAL MONEY, WE'RE LIMITED IN

WHAT WE CAN AND WE CANNOT DO. AND EVEN THOUGH AS A BODY WE PUT IN

A FULL $15 MILLION -- $15 MILLION IN THE BUDGET TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY

HAVE ALL THE RESOURCES TO SCALE UP, BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF

ADMINISTRATIVE CAPACITY THEY COULD NOT SCALE UP FAST ENOUGH TO DELIVER

THE OVERSIGHT THAT'S NECESSARY. BUT THIS BILL WILL TAKE SORT OF MEASURES

TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COMPLAINTS IN THESE FACILITIES ARE TURNED AROUND

IN A TIMELY MANNER, AND ALSO THEY FOCUS ON DIVERSITY RECRUITMENT AND

408

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE CULTURALLY-TRAINED IN SENSITIVE MATTERS.

I DO WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES IN THE AGING

COMMITTEE WHO HAVE WORKED PASSIONATELY TO ALSO IMPROVE THE

LTCOP PROGRAM, AS WELL AS THE PROGRAM AND COUNSEL STAFF WHO

HELPED WITH THE OVERSIGHT HEARINGS AND AS WELL AS THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. WITH THAT, I THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR VOTING FOR THIS VERY

IMPORTANT BILL AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. KIM IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07444-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 796, MCMAHON, COLTON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION

LAW, THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, THE ADMINISTRATIVE

CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK AND CHAPTER 666 OF THE LAWS OF 1990,

AMENDING THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK AND THE

EDUCATION LAW RELATING TO THE AVAILABILITY OF ADDITIONAL PENSION

BENEFITS FOR AN EXTENDED SECOND PUBLIC EMPLOYMENT TO CERTAIN RETIREES,

IN RELATION TO THE TRANSFER OF RESERVES BETWEEN PUBLIC EMPLOYEE

RETIREMENT SYSTEMS OF THE STATE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MS.

MCMAHON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07464-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 797, WEINSTEIN, DINOWITZ, GIBBS, L. ROSENTHAL. AN -- AN

ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND RULES, IN RELATION TO RENEWALS

BASED ON A SUBSEQUENT CHANGE IN LAW.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07582, RULES REPORT

NO. 798, SMULLEN. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING ISAAC B. BERTOS TO

TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATION FOR THE POSITION OF

POLICE OFFICER AND BE PLACED ON THE ELIGIBLE LIST FOR EMPLOYMENT AS A

FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER FOR THE VILLAGE OF ILION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

410

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

SMULLEN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07620, RULES REPORT

NO. 799, SMULLEN. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING BRETT W. BREWER

TO TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATION FOR THE POSITION OF

POLICE OFFICER AND BE PLACED ON THE ELIGIBLE LIST FOR EMPLOYMENT AS A

FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER FOR THE VILLAGE OF ILION.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

SMULLEN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. SMULLEN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. TWO BILLS FOR TWO DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS TO ALLOW THEM

TO SERVE IN THE -- THE POLICE FORCE IN ILION, NEW YORK. IT'S A GOOD THING;

IT REQUIRES A WAIVER, BUT WE'RE GLAD. IT'S HARD TO RECRUIT POLICE OFFICERS

THESE DAYS, AND THESE ARE GOOD PEOPLE THAT WILL DO A GOOD JOB FOR THE

PEOPLE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: MR. SMULLEN IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07651, RULES REPORT

NO. 801, THIELE. AN ACT TO REPEAL TITLE XVI OF ARTICLE 8 OF THE PUBLIC

AUTHORITIES LAW, RELATING TO THE SUFFOLK COUNTY JUDICIAL FACILITIES

AGENCY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

THIELE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

412

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07688, RULES REPORT

NO. 802, JONES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL

LAW, IN RELATION TO LICENSING RESTRICTIONS FOR MANUFACTURERS AND

WHOLESALERS OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES WHO SELL AT RETAIL FOR ON-PREMISES

CONSUMPTION; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON

EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ON A MOTION BY MR.

JONES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

ACTING SPEAKER KIM: THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07768, RULES REPORT

NO. 804 IS HIGH.

ASSEMBLY NO. A07769, RULES REPORT NO. 805 IS HIGH.

ACTING SPEAKER KIM: PAGE 4, RULES --

(PAUSE)

PAGE 4, RULES REPORT NO. 794, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S05430, SENATOR MATTERA,

413

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

RULES REPORT NO. 794 (A07110, STERN). AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING TOWERS TO CLEAN UP ANY DEBRIS IN

THE SURROUNDING AREA RESULTING FROM THE VEHICLES THEY ARE TOWING.

ACTING SPEAKER KIM: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER KIM: THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE

VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER AND

COLLEAGUES, IF WE COULD BRING OUR ATTENTION TO CALENDAR NO. 79, IT'S ON

PAGE 34 BY MR. GIBBS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: CALENDAR NO. 79,

PAGE 34, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04009-A, CALENDAR

NO. 79, GIBBS, EPSTEIN, LEVENBERG, KELLES, HYNDMAN, DE LOS SANTOS,

SIMONE, TAYLOR, FALL, ZACCARO, WEPRIN, BURDICK, BICHOTTE HERMELYN,

BORES, LEE, REYES, HEVESI, PRETLOW, CUNNINGHAM, JEAN-PIERRE, HUNTER,

LUCAS, TAPIA, CHANDLER-WATERMAN, ARDILA, COLTON, WALLACE, SIMON,

DICKENS, JACOBSON, BURGOS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW, IN

414

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

RELATION TO PROVIDING NOTICE OF VOTING RIGHTS TO PERSONS RELEASED FROM

LOCAL JAILS.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THIS BILL IS VERY

SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT WE ADDRESSED, I THINK, SEVERAL YEARS AGO OR

MAYBE IT WAS YESTERDAY. BUT IT'S BEEN AMENDED, AND I WANTED TO

COMPLIMENT THE SPONSOR FOR MAKING VARIOUS AMENDMENTS. BASICALLY, IT

REQUIRES THAT WHEN AN INMATE IS RELEASED FROM A LOCAL CORRECTIONAL

FACILITY THAT HE'S GIVEN INFORMATION ABOUT THE IMPACT OF HIS

INCARCERATION ON -- ON HIS RIGHT TO VOTE. AND THERE WAS A LOT OF

NEGATIVES IN THE PAST, WHICH IS WHY WE'LL PROBABLY BE MINORITY IN THE

NEGATIVE, BUT THE LANGUAGE HAS BEEN CHANGED. SO INSTEAD OF OFFERING

EVERYONE A VOTER REGISTRATION IT'S NOW OFFERING THEM INFORMATION. AND

AS YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE IN A LOCAL FACILITY YOU DON'T LOSE YOUR RIGHT TO

VOTE, IT'S ONLY IF YOU HAVE A FELONY. BUT I JUST WANTED TO GIVE A LITTLE

EXPLANATION AND THERE WILL BE A PARTY VOTE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: AND A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN CALLED. MR. GOODELL, SORT OF THE HEART [SIC] --

MR. GOODELL: I (INAUDIBLE).

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: -- BEFORE THE COURSE

415

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

OR WHATEVER, RIGHT.

MR. GOODELL: NEITHER.

(LAUGHTER)

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: LET'S TRY IT AGAIN.

A PARTY VOTE HAS BEEN CALLED.

MR. GOODELL.

MR. GOODELL: THANK YOU, SIR. THE REPUBLICAN

CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY NEGATIVE FOR THE REASONS I SHOULD HAVE WAITED

LATER TO EXPLAIN, BUT THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE IN FAVOR ARE CERTAINLY

ENCOURAGED TO DO SO.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MR.

GOODELL.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MR.

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY ALWAYS GOING TO BE IN

FAVOR OF CREATING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE. SO WE'RE GOING TO

BE SUPPORTING THIS ONE.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THANK YOU, MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. GIBBS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GIBBS: I'M SORRY MR. SPEAKER, I TURNED IT ON BY

MISTAKE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THAT'S ALL RIGHT, MR.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 9, 2023

GIBBS.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, DO YOU

HAVE FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: WE HAVE A NUMBER OF

FINE RESOLUTIONS WHICH WE WILL TAKE UP WITH ONE VOTE.

ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 716-718

WERE UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: I NOW MOVE THAT THE

ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL SATURDAY, JUNE THE 10TH, TOMORROW

BEING A SESSION DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER AUBRY: THE ASSEMBLY STANDS

ADJOURNED.

(WHEREUPON, AT 12:15 A.M., THE HOUSE STOOD

ADJOURNED UNTIL SATURDAY, JUNE 10TH.)

417