WEDNESDAY, MARCH 26, 2025 12:53 P.M.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE HOUSE WILL

COME TO ORDER.

GOOD AFTERNOON, COLLEAGUES. PASTOR CRAIG PRIDGEN

WILL OFFER A PRAYER.

PASTOR CRAIG PRIDGEN: THE WORK AND MINISTRY

OF THE APOSTLE PAUL WAS TO SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THE NEEDS OF SPECIFIC AREAS

AND REGIONS. SPECIFICALLY, HE SPOKE TO LEADERS AND PEOPLE OF INFLUENCE

AS IT RELATED TO THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH EACH OTHER. DURING A

CONVERSATION WITH THE CHURCH AT PHILIPPI, THE APOSTLE PAUL GIVES A

VERY CLEAR MESSAGE. THIS IS WHAT HE SAYS: DO NOTHING OUT OF SELFISH

AMBITION OR VAIN CONCEIT. RATHER, IN HUMILITY VALUE OTHERS ABOVE

YOURSELVES, NOT LOOKING TO YOUR OWN INTERESTS BUT EACH OF YOU IN THE

INTERESTS OF THE OTHERS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

IN 1 TIMOTHY WE ARE TOLD TO PRAY FOR THOSE THAT GOVERN

AND SIT IN PLACES OF AUTHORITY, AND IT IS MY PRIVILEGE TO DO THAT TODAY.

LET US PRAY TOGETHER. MINE EYES HAVE SEEN THE GLORY OF THE COMING OF

THE LORD; HE IS TRAMPLING OUT THE VINTAGE WHERE THE GRAPES OF WRATH

ARE STORED; HE HATH LOOSED THE FATEFUL LIGHTNING OF HIS TERRIBLE SWIFT

SWORD: HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON. IN THESE SACRED CHAMBERS WE PRAY

FOR THOSE WHO LEGISLATE, LITIGATE AND AGITATE. LEGISLATE BY PASSING LAWS

THAT GOVERN OUR GREAT STATE; LITIGATE ON BEHALF OF THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE

SEATS AT THE TABLE, AND AGITATE THE STATUS QUO OF THOSE WHO LIKE THE

APOSTLE PAUL SAID, ARE MOTIVATED BY SELFISH AMBITION. WE PRAY FOR

THOSE WHO STAND IN THE BACKGROUND AND THE SIDELINES WHO HAVE

STRATEGICALLY BEEN POSITIONED IN THE MINISTRY OF SECOND CHAIR. WE LIFT

UP THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CALLED TO THE LIFE OF PUBLIC SERVICE, MAY THE

WORK THEY DO CARRY THEM TO GREATER. WE PRAY FOR THIS GREAT STATE. WE

PRAY FOR OUR GOVERNOR. WE PRAY FOR THE SPEAKER OF THIS AUGUST BODY.

WE PRAY FOR THE MINORITY LEADER, AND ESPECIALLY THE FRAGRANCE OF THE

141ST DISTRICT AND MAJORITY LEADER. AS THE REVEREND KING SAID, WE

SHALL OVERCOME BECAUSE THE ARC OF THE MORAL UNIVERSE IS LONG AND IT

BENDS TOWARDS JUSTICE. DURING THIS TIME OF UNCERTAINTY, WE PRAY THAT

UNITY AND JUSTICE BEND FROM QUEENS TO BUFFALO, FROM BUFFALO TO TROY,

FROM TROY TO ROCHESTER, FROM ROCHESTER TO BROOKLYN, FROM BROOKLYN

TO SYRACUSE, FROM SYRACUSE TO SCHENECTADY, FROM SCHENECTADY TO

ALBANY, FROM ALBANY TO WILSON, FROM WILSON TO AMHERST, FROM

AMHERST TO MANHATTAN, FROM MANHATTAN TO NIAGARA FALLS AND YES, EVEN

TO THE WHITE HOUSE. WE PRAY FOR TODAY'S PROCEEDINGS AND DECISIONS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

WE PRAY UNTO HIM THAT IS ABLE TO KEEP US FROM FALLING AND PRESENT US

THOUGHTLESS BEFORE THE PRESENCE OF HIS GLORY WITH EXCEEDING JOY BE

GLORY IN MAJESTY, DOMINION, POWER BOTH NOW AND FOREVER. AMEN AND

AMEN.

MEMBERS: AMEN.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: VISITORS ARE INVITED

TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MARCH 25TH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, I MOVE

TO DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MARCH

THE 25TH, AND THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WITHOUT OBJECTION,

SO ORDERED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU. MADAM

SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN CHAMBERS WITH US TODAY, I'D

LIKE TO SHARE A QUOTE. THIS QUOTE IS COMING FROM SHERYL DENISE

SWOOPES. SHE IS AN AMERICAN FORMER PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER.

SHE WAS THE FIRST PLAYER TO BE ASSIGNED -- SIGNED INTO A WNBA CONTRACT

AND A THREE-TIME MVP. SHE WAS NAMED AS THE LEAGUE'S TOP 15TH PLAYER

OF ALL TIMES. AND IN 2011 AT THE WNBA ALL-STAR GAME, SHE WAS THE

TOP PLAYER THERE AS WELL. HER WORDS FOR US TODAY: YOU HAVE TO BE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

POSITIVE, AND I'M NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT ATHLETICS. THIS ALSO APPLIES TO

LIFE. AGAIN, THESE WORDS FROM SHERYL DENISE SWOOPES.

MADAM SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESK A

CALENDAR. AFTER YOU HAVE DONE ANY INTRODUCTIONS AND/OR

HOUSEKEEPING, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP CALENDAR RESOLUTIONS ON PAGE 3.

THEN WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP THE FOLLOWING BILLS ON DEBATE: CALENDAR

NO. 6 BY MS. ROSENTHAL, CALENDAR NO. 9 BY MR. DINOWITZ, CALENDAR

NO. 1 BY MS. PAULIN AND CALENDAR NO. 27 BY MR. EPSTEIN. THERE MAY

BE A NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FLOOR ACTIVITY AS WE PROCEED, BUT RIGHT NOW,

MADAM SPEAKER, THAT IS A GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE GOING TODAY.

IT WOULD BE PROPER TO BEGIN WITH INTRODUCTIONS AND/OR HOUSEKEEPING.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU. WE

HAVE NO HOUSEKEEPING TODAY SO WE'LL START WITH AN INTRODUCTION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN

INTRODUCTION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. IT IS A -- A PLEASURE AND AN HONOR TO RISE TO INTRODUCE

REVEREND CRAIG PRIDGEN. AND IT TOOK ME A MINUTE TO GET THAT OUT NOT

BECAUSE I DON'T HEAR HIM DELIVER THE MESSAGE REGULARLY AT THE TRUE

BETHEL BAPTIST CHURCH BOTH IN BUFFALO, NEW YORK AS WELL AS IN

NIAGARA FALLS, NEW YORK. BUT IT TOOK ME A MINUTE BECAUSE I ACTUALLY

REMEMBER THE DAY HE WAS BORN, AND I REMEMBER THE TIME WHEN MY

BROTHER-IN-LAW CONSISTENTLY CALLED HIM "TERRIBLE," HE WAS ABOUT THREE.

AND NOW HE'S GROWN INTO THIS MAN THAT DELIVERS THE "WORD" AND SAVES

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

PEOPLE THROUGHOUT WESTERN NEW YORK AND SO IT IS MY HONOR TO

INTRODUCE CRAIG PRIDGEN, REVEREND CRAIG PRIDGEN, AND ASK FOR YOU TO

GIVE HIM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF THE

MAJORITY LEADER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WELCOME, PASTOR.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORDS THIS MORNING. WE WELCOME YOU TO THE

CHAMBER, EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU. IF YOU STAY AROUND

WE HOPE YOU ENJOY THE PROCEEDINGS. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR

JOINING US TODAY. THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. STERN FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. STERN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. GOOD

AFTERNOON TO ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES. TODAY IS A VERY SPECIAL DAY IN THE

NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY. IN A MOMENT WE WILL ALL BE CONSIDERING A

RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING THE GOVERNOR TO PROCLAIM MARCH 29, 2025 AS

VIETNAM VETERANS DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IN CONJUNCTION WITH

THE NATIONAL OBSERVANCE HONORING THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE

SERVED OUR GREAT NATION.

MADAM SPEAKER, WE ARE JOINED BY SO MANY OF OUR

HEROS TODAY THAT SERVED OUR NATION IN VIETNAM WHO ARE WITH US TODAY

TO SHARE THEIR STORIES, SHARE THEIR PRESENCE, SHARE THEIR FAMILIES WHO

HAVE JOINED THEM TODAY FROM ALL OVER THE STATE SO THAT WE HAVE THE

OPPORTUNITY TO SPEND TIME WITH THEM, TO CONTINUE TO LEARN FROM THEM,

WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN AND FOR ALL OF US IN THIS GREAT

CHAMBER TO VERY SIMPLY AND SINCERELY SAY THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

SO, MADAM SPEAKER, WITH THAT, IF YOU WOULD KINDLY

OFFER ALL OF THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE, THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO

OUR VIETNAM VETERANS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU. ON

BEHALF OF MR. STERN, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WELCOME TO OUR

VIETNAM VETERANS TODAY. WE WELCOME YOU TO THE ASSEMBLY

CHAMBER, EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU. THANK YOU SO VERY

MUCH FOR TRAVELING TODAY FROM NEAR AND FAR TO BE HERE WITH US TODAY,

AND THANK YOU FOR THE SERVICE YOU HAVE PROVIDED TO OUR COUNTRY. WE

REALLY APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

MS. LEVENBERG FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. LEVENBERG: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

TODAY I RISE TO JOIN WITH ASSEMBLYMEMBER BURDICK TO WELCOME TO THE

CHAMBER TWO VERY IMPORTANT MEMBERS OF COPLAND HOUSE IN THE OWN

OF CORTLANDT. LAWRENCE BLUMBERG WHO IS THE VICE-PRESIDENT OF

COPLAND HOUSE AND BOARD AND A RESIDENT OF THE TOWN OF YORKTOWN.

AND MICHAEL BORISKIN WHO IS THE ARTISTIC AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF

COPLAND HOUSE AND A RESIDENT OF BEDFORD CORNERS. THEY ARE HERE IN

THE CAPITOL TODAY TO RECEIVE A RECENTLY ADOPTED RESOLUTION

COMMEMORATING THE 125TH BIRTHDAY OF AARON COPLAND. AS MANY OF

YOU KNOW AARON COPLAND WAS ONE OF AMERICA'S MOST CELEBRATED

COMPOSERS. THE HALLMARK OF COPLAND'S MUSIC WAS HIS ABILITY TO CREATE

A SOUND THAT RESONATED DEEPLY WITH THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE. HIS

HARMONIES AND FOLKLIKE THEMES REFLECTED BOTH THE OPTIMISM AND

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

STRUGGLES OF THE AMERICAN LANDSCAPE. AARON COPLAND'S MUSIC REMAINS

A PILLAR OF AMERICAN CLASSICAL COMPOSITION DEEPLY EMBEDDED IN BOTH

THE CULTURAL MEMORY OF THE NATION AND THE BROADER CLASSICAL MUSIC

WORLD. COPLAND HOUSE, WHICH IS LOCATED IN CORTLANDT MANOR, WAS HIS

HOME FROM1960 UNTIL HIS DEATH IN 1990. IT IS NOT ONLY A NATIONAL

HISTORIC LANDMARK, BUT WAS ALSO A SANCTUARY FOR COPLAND WHERE HE

COMPOSED AND HOSTED FELLOW MUSICIANS, COMPOSERS AND ARTISTS. IN

RECOGNITION OF AARON COPLAND'S LEGACY, COPLAND HOUSE HAS BEEN

PRESERVED AND TRANSFORMED INTO A CULTURAL CENTER DEDICATED TO HIS

ARTISTIC VISION AND I'M SO GRATEFUL TO OUR TWO GUESTS FOR THEIR VERY DEEP

INVOLVEMENT IN THAT TRANSFORMATION. MANY COMPOSERS ARE INVITED TO

LIVE AND WORK IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENT THAT ONCE INSPIRED COPLAND FOR

ARTISTIC RESIDENCIES AND CONTINUE TO PAY FORWARD HIS VISION AND HIS

MUSIC BY BRINGING INNOVATIVE, POWERFUL, ECLECTIC, MOVING, BEAUTIFUL

AND VIBRANT MUSIC INTO OUR WORLD.

MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD YOU PLEASE OFFER MR.

BLUMBERG AND MR. BORISKIN ALL OF THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: OF COURSE. ON

BEHALF OF MS. LEVENBERG, MR. BURDICK, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE

MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, SIRS, FROM COPLAND HOUSE. WE EXTEND THE

PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU. HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

(APPLAUSE)

MS. HYNDMAN FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. HYNDMAN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ALLOWING ME THIS BRIEF INTRODUCTION. FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS I'VE BEEN

BRINGING STUDENTS FROM SOUTHEAST QUEENS WHO SIT ON THEIR STUDENT

COUNCILS TO THE NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATURE SO THEY CAN SEE HOW

GOVERNMENT IS DONE. SO THERE'S QUITE A FEW SCHOOLS, SO I'M GOING TO TRY

AND GET THROUGH THIS LIST REALLY QUICKLY. I JUST WANT TO THANK MY

COLLEAGUES COOK, ANDERSON AND VANEL FOR THEIR ASSISTANCE IN MAKING

TODAY GREAT. SO VERY QUICKLY I WILL JUST INTRODUCE OUR SUPER

SUPERINTENDENT DR. BONDS AND THE WORK THAT SHE DOES IN DISTRICT 29.

(APPLAUSE)

AND THE DISTRICT 29 TEAM. SO I WANT TO -- I WANT TO

THANK I.S. 59, P.S. 37, 251, 156, 147, P.S. I.S. 192, CAMS MIDDLE

SCHOOL 355, P.S. 176, I.S. 270, I.S. -- P.S. I.S. 208, 38, 131, 132, 134

AND P.S. I.S. 238 FOR JOINING US TODAY. THEY WILL BE GOING OVER TO THE

SENATE CHAMBER, BUT CIVICS DAY WE TALK ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT CIVICS IS

IN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS. SO RATHER THAN WAIT ON THE CURRICULUM, WE'RE

DOING IT IN DISTRICT 29, MY ASSEMBLY DISTRICT. ALSO A MAJORITY OF MY

SCHOOLS ARE IN COMMUNITY SCHOOL DISTRICT 29 AND I WANT TO THANK MY

STAFF AND ALL THE STAFF FOR MAKING TODAY POSSIBLE, BUT IT'S GOOD FOR

STUDENTS TO SEE GOVERNMENT, AND THAT THERE'S MORE TO NEW YORK STATE

THAN JUST NEW YORK CITY. THERE ARE 62 COUNTIES AND I ALWAYS PUSH

THAT POINT HOME TO MY DISTRICT TO MAKE SURE OUR CHILDREN KNOW THAT

THEY, TOO, WILL TAKE OVER OUR SEATS IN THE HALLS OF ALBANY AND THEN

SOME.

SO, MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD YOU PLEASE AFFORD THE

CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE TO DISTRICT 29 PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF MS.

HYNDMAN, MS. HOOKS, MR. ANDERSON, MR. VANEL, THE SPEAKER AND ALL

THE MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY, WELCOME YOUNG PEOPLE FROM DISTRICT

29. WE WELCOME YOU TO THE CHAMBER, EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF

THE FLOOR. YOU ARE SEEING SOMETHING ASTOUNDING TODAY. IF YOU SEE IT

YOU CAN BE IT. WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO YOU, OUR LEADERS OF THE FUTURE.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. TAGUE FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. TODAY I

HAVE A SPECIAL GUEST WITH ME FROM SCHOHARIE COUNTY. MY UNCLE, SO

YES, WE DO BRING FAMILY HERE. HE MAY NOT ADMIT TO BEING MY UNCLE,

BUT HE IS. KENNETH SCHWEIGARD. KENNETH SCHWEIGARD WAS A CORPORAL

IN THE UNITED STATES MARINES, STATIONED AT MARBLE MOUNTAIN AIR

FACILITY AS AN AVIATION ELECTRICITY [SIC] DURING VIETNAM. HIS WORK

HISTORY INCLUDES BEING THE COMPTROLLER OF THE NEW YORK STATE

CONSTRUCTION FUND. HE WAS ALSO A TOWN JUSTICE IN OUR -- IN OUR

HOMETOWN. AND HE IS NOW PRESENTLY THE COMMISSIONER OF ELECTIONS IN

SCHOHARIE COUNTY.

I ASK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, AND MY COLLEAGUES TO

PLEASE GIVE A WARM WELCOME TO MY UNCLE KENNY, KENNETH J.

SCHWEIGARD AND MY AUNT SUSAN, SUSAN SCHWEIGARD.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF -- ON

BEHALF OF MR. TAGUE, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE ALWAYS LOVE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

TO SEE FAMILY MEMBERS HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER. WE EXTEND TO

YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS

TODAY. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

(APPLAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN

INTRODUCTION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. I AM SUPER HONORED AND PLEASED TO INTRODUCE SHERYL

SWOOPES. SHERYL IS A WNBA LEGEND, HALL OF FAMER AND A THREE-TIME

OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST. SHE'S IN ALBANY TODAY SHARING AND INFORMING

PEOPLE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF CANCER. SHE'S A NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON FOR

RADNET, A LEADING PROVIDER OF OUTPATIENT CANCER SCREENING IN AMERICA.

SHERYL FLEW UP FROM TEXAS LAST NIGHT ON HER BIRTHDAY TO BE WITH US

TODAY, TO ADVOCATE AROUND THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES. SHE'S IN OUR

CHAMBER WITH US TODAY, MADAM SPEAKER. I SAW HER EARLIER TODAY AND

HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE A SELFIE WITH HER. AND I TEXTED TO MY

GRANDSON AND I SAID, CALEB, WHO IS THIS? HE SAID, SWOOOPS.

(LAUGHTER)

PLEASE JOIN ME IN WELCOMING SWOOOPS TO OUR

CHAMBERS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF THE

MAJORITY LEADER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, A

TRUE LEGEND, TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER, EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE

FLOOR TO YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE ON AND OFF THE COURT. WE

HOPE YOU ENJOY THE PROCEEDINGS TODAY. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

JOINING US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. ANDERSON FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. ANDERSON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. IT

IS GREAT TO BE IN THE STATE'S CAPITOL HERE TODAY. TODAY I'M HONORED TO

BRING THE UPPER ROOM INTERNATIONAL MINISTRIES CHURCH IN THE TOWN OF

FAR ROCKAWAY HERE TO THE STATE'S CAPITOL TO COMMEMORATE AND

ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR 25 YEARS OF FAITH, SERVICE AND UNWAVERING

COMMITMENT TO THE ROCKAWAY COMMUNITY. I'M EXCITED TO CALL MY --

THIS CHURCH MY PERSONAL HOME, AND ALSO TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE WORK THAT

THEY HAVE BEEN DOING OVER THE LAST 25 YEARS. I'M EXCITED THAT TODAY

WE'LL BE TAKING UP AT THE END OF SESSION A PRIVILEGED RESOLUTION

COMMEMORATING THEIR 25 YEARS OF DEDICATION, SERVICES AND THE JOURNEY

THAT THEY TOOK. THE JOURNEY HAS NOT BEEN WITHOUT CHALLENGES FROM

STARTING WITH JUST A FEW MEMBERS RESPONDING TO DISASTERS LIKE

HURRICANE SANDY AND ADAPTING THROUGH A GLOBAL -- SHH -- ADAPTING

THROUGH A GLOBAL PANDEMIC. YET THROUGH FAITH AND PERSEVERANCE, THE

UPPER ROOM INTERNATIONAL MINISTRIES CONTINUES TO UPLIFT LIVES FAR

BEYOND THEIR WALLS. MUCH THANKS TO THE VISION AND LEADERSHIP OF THEIR

SENIOR PASTOR, PASTOR COURTNEY BROWN, MY PASTOR, WHO NOT ONLY SERVES

AS AN INSPIRATION, BUT HAS SHAPED THIS MINISTRY INTO THE STRENGTH THAT WE

SEE 25 YEARS LATER. HE HAS SERVED ON HIS LOCAL COMMUNITY BOARD,

SERVED AT MANY EVENTS AND HAS LED PRAYER RIGHT HERE IN THIS CHAMBER.

TODAY WE CELEBRATE 25 YEARS AND ALL THAT THEY HAVE ACCOMPLISHED, AND

WE SAY THANK YOU TO THE CHURCH MOTHER THAT HELPED GET THIS STARTED,

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MOTHER BROWN. SPECIFICALLY, WE WANT TO THANK ALL OF THE BOARD

MEMBERS, LEADERS FROM THE CONGREGATION WHO HAVE JOINED US HERE

TODAY.

PLEASE, MADAM SPEAKER, PLEASE EXTEND THE

CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR IN THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE TO THE UPPER ROOM

INTERNATIONAL MINISTRIES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF MR.

ANDERSON, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU

MEMBERS OF THE UPPER ROOM INTERNATIONAL MINISTRIES, AND

CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU ON YOUR 25 YEAR ANNIVERSARY. WE WELCOME YOU

TO THE CHAMBER, EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU. HOPE YOU

ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US

TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

RESOLUTIONS, PAGE 3, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 260, MS.

WALSH.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MARCH 26, 2025, AS PURPLE DAY IN THE STATE

OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. WALSH ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. GOOD

AFTERNOON, EVERYBODY. WE'VE GOT A NICE BUZZ COMING AROUND HERE IN

THE CHAMBER. IT'S NICE TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE COMING AND VISITING US

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

TODAY. I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES WHO COSPONSORED THIS RESOLUTION

AND FOR THOSE WHO REMEMBERED TO WEAR PURPLE TODAY. I'M PLEASED TO

PRESENT THIS IMPORTANT RESOLUTION ON PURPLE DAY.

IT'S ANOTHER NAME FOR EPILEPSY AWARENESS DAY. IT

AIMS TO INCREASE THE PUBLIC'S KNOWLEDGE OF A NEUROLOGICAL CONDITION

AFFECTING NEARLY 50 MILLION INDIVIDUALS GLOBALLY. AND THERE ARE

APPROXIMATELY 215,000 WHO RESIDE RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.

EPILEPSY IMPACTS THE CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM CAUSING IN SOME INSTANCES

SEIZURES AND OTHER SYMPTOMS AFFECTING PEOPLE OF ALL AGES, AND MUCH

LIKE OTHER CONDITIONS IT'S NOT ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL. WHEN MY NEPHEW

CHRISTOPHER WAS DIAGNOSED WITH EPILEPSY IN MIDDLE SCHOOL, HIS JUST --

IT MANIFESTED -- LIKE IT SEEMED LIKE HE WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION. IT

SEEMED LIKE HE WAS JUST KIND OF ZONING OUT. AND BUT, IT WAS PICKED UP

AND NOW -- I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW OLD HE IS NOW. HE'S SOMEWHERE IN

HIS 40S WITH A COUPLE OF KIDS AND A GREAT LIFE AND -- AND HE'S VERY, VERY

WELL CONTROLLED WITH HIS EPILEPSY AND THAT'S A GREAT, POSITIVE STORY.

YOU KNOW, PURPLE DAY WAS STARTED IN 2008 BY

CANADIAN CASSIDY MEGAN TO ENCOURAGE AWARENESS AND CAST AWAY SOME

OF THE MYTHS THAT EXISTED SURROUNDING EPILEPSY. SHE WAS MOTIVATED BY

HER OWN DIAGNOSIS TO EDUCATE THOSE AROUND HER AND PURPLE WAS CHOSEN

BECAUSE LAVENDER IS RECOGNIZED AS THE INTERNATIONAL FLOWER OF EPILEPSY.

DESPITE ALL OF THE EXISTING TREATMENTS AND THERAPIES, THERE IS MUCH

MORE THAT NEEDS TO GET DONE AND I'M PROUD TO STAND HERE TODAY TO BRING

-- TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON THAT. I'VE BEEN A REALLY PROUD SUPPORTER FOR THE

EPILEPSY FOUNDATION OF NORTHEASTERN NEW YORK WHICH HAS INCLUDED

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

SUPPORTING MY BROTHER, BOB AND MY SISTER-IN-LAW DEBBIE BAIN WHO

BOTH HAVE WORKED WITH THE EPILEPSY FOUNDATION FOR A NUMBER A YEARS

AS PART OF THEIR ADVOCACY AFTER MY NEPHEW'S DIAGNOSIS. AND THIS

WEEKEND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THEIR -- THEIR ANNUAL EVENT CALLED

CONFECTIONS IN CHOCOLATE, WHICH IS SO GOOD. I SEE ONE OF MY

COLLEAGUES AND I, WE ALWAYS ENJOY GOING THERE. THEY'RE GOING TO BE

HONORING A CONSTITUENT OF MINE WHO IS THE WINNING KID THIS YEAR. HER

NAME IS ADA, AND SHE IS FOUR YEARS OLD AND SHE IS SHOWCASING HER

RESILIENCE AT SUCH A VERY YOUNG AGE IN PROMOTING AWARENESS OF

EPILEPSY.

SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH EVERYBODY FOR COSPONSORING

THIS RESOLUTION FOR PURPLE DAY AND THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. JACKSON ON THE RESOLUTION.

MS. JACKSON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR

ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK ON THE RESOLUTION. I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR OF

THIS RESOLUTION AND JUST BRING SOME AWARENESS TO EPILEPSY AS WELL. LAST

YEAR WE LOST MY EX-HUSBAND TO IT. AND I'M TRYING TO GET THROUGH THIS

WITHOUT CRYING. BUT HE GOT IT VERY LATE, MAYBE TWO YEARS BEFORE HE

PASSED, SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE SPONSOR FOR BRINGING THE

AWARENESS AND LET'S CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE FOR RESEARCH, TO ADVOCATE FOR

FUNDING AND TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE STAYS SAFE AND ON THEIR

MEDICATION. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 261, MR.

STERN.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MARCH 29, 2025, AS VIETNAM VETERANS DAY

IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. STERN ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MR. STERN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. AS THE

CHAIRMAN OF THE VETERANS' AFFAIRS COMMITTEE OF THE NEW YORK STATE

ASSEMBLY, IT'S MY DISTINCT PRIVILEGE TO INTRODUCE THIS LEGISLATIVE

RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING THE GOVERNOR TO PROCLAIM MARCH 29, 2025

AS VIETNAM VETERANS DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. THIS IS BEING

DONE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE NATIONAL OBSERVANCE HONORING THOSE WHO

SERVED. TODAY WE'RE JOINED BY VIETNAM WAR VETERANS FROM ACROSS THE

STATE, AND WE THANK THEM FOR TRAVELING TO THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE TODAY.

AND FOR THEIR SERVICE TO OUR GREAT NATION.

MARCH 29, 1973 MARKS THE DAY WHEN THE LAST UNITED

STATES COMBAT TROOPS LEFT VIETNAM. MANY OF THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO

SERVED IN THE CONFLICT HALF A WORLD AWAY AND WHICH LASTED MORE THAN A

DECADE CAME HOME TO HOSTILITY, DISPARAGEMENT AND ISOLATION. MANY

SUFFERED SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURIES AND PTSD, WHICH WAS NOT

ACKNOWLEDGED OR TREATED. MORE THAN 58,000 MADE THE ULTIMATE

SACRIFICE. THOSE WHOSE NAMES ARE ETCHED IN MEMORY, LOVE AND RESPECT

ON THE VIETNAM MEMORIAL WALL IN OUR NATION'S CAPITAL.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

WE'RE JOINED HERE TODAY IN OUR STATE CAPITOL TO

ACKNOWLEDGE AND THANK THESE VETERANS FOR THEIR BRAVERY, THEIR COURAGE

AND THEIR DIGNITY. MADAM SPEAKER, I'M SURE I CAN SPEAK FOR ALL OF OUR

COLLEAGUES WHEN I SAY THAT PERHAPS THERE IS NO MAN OF GREATER DIGNITY

THAT WE ALL ADMIRE THAN OUR FAVORITE VETERAN, WAYNE JACKSON, OUR

SERGEANT-AT-ARMS. LET'S HAVE ALL OF OUR COLLEAGUES GIVE THIS GREAT MAN

AND THIS GREAT AMERICAN A GREAT ROUND OF APPLAUSE AND THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

MADAM SPEAKER, THANK YOU TO OUR COLLEAGUE,

VIETNAM VETERAN JUDGE MORINELLO.

(APPLAUSE)

AND OUR GOOD COLLEAGUE, KEN BLANKENBUSH, ALSO A

VIETNAM VETERAN AND (INAUDIBLE).

(APPLAUSE)

WE WERE ALSO JOINED HERE EARLIER TODAY BY NED FOOTE,

THE PRESIDENT OF THE VIETNAM VETERANS OF AMERICA NEW YORK STATE

COUNCIL. THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY ALWAYS

COMMIT TO ENSURING THOSE WHO WORE THE UNIFORM AND THEIR FAMILIES THAT

THEY WILL RECEIVE THE BENEFITS, ASSISTANCE AND SUPPORT THAT THEY HAVE

RIGHTFULLY EARNED.

MADAM SPEAKER, I KNOW THAT ALL OF US HERE IN THE

NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY AGREE WHEN I SAY THAT MOST IMPORTANTLY TO

OUR HEROS, THANK YOU AND WELCOME HOME.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. MORINELLO ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. MORINELLO: MADAM SPEAKER, MEMBERS OF

THE ASSEMBLY, THIS DAY IS ALWAYS ONE THAT BRINGS MEMORIES TO ME, BUT

IT'S ALSO VERY HEARTWARMING THAT MY COLLEAGUES IN THIS ASSEMBLY

RECOGNIZE US VETERANS FROM THE VIETNAM ERA. YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR

SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE HEARD MANY TIMES. WHEN WE CAME HOME WE

CAME HOME TO WHAT WE REFERRED TO AND WAS REFERRED TO AS AN UNGRATEFUL

NATION. THAT WAS AS A RESULT OF THE TURMOIL WITHIN THIS COUNTRY OVER THE

PURPOSE OF THE VIETNAM WAR, BUT IT NEVER TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THOSE

OF US THAT WERE WILLING TO GIVE ALL TO PROTECT THE FREEDOMS THAT WE GREW

UP WITH. IT WAS A DIFFICULT TIME. I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY ALMOST EVERY

ONE OF US WHEN WE HIT CALIFORNIA COMING BACK, THREW OUR UNIFORMS IN

THE GARBAGE AND WORE SUITS WE HAD MADE IN HONG KONG TO NOT BE

IDENTIFIED AS SOMEONE FROM VIETNAM BECAUSE THE ATTACKS, THE ITEMS

THAT WERE THROWN AT US, AND I'D RATHER NOT MENTION SOME OF THE PERSONAL

ITEMS THAT WERE PHYSICALLY THROWN AT US. THE ALLEGATIONS OF BABY

KILLERS, THINGS THAT WE FOUGHT FOR AND WERE WILLING TO GIVE ALL FOR SO

THAT THEY COULD ACTUALLY SAY AND DO THAT. OVER THE FIRST FEW YEARS MOST

VIETNAM VETERANS - AND I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY ALL - NEVER

ACKNOWLEDGED IT. I DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE IT UNTIL MAYBE TEN, 12 YEARS

AGO BECAUSE IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I HAD HIDDEN DEEPLY INSIDE OF ME

FOR VARIOUS REASONS TO REMEMBER AND TO CALL UPON THE HORRORS THAT WE

FACED. I CAN REMEMBER MY MOTHER'S FACE WHEN I LEFT HOME TO GO TO

VIETNAM AND HER NOT KNOWING WHETHER I WAS COMING HOME OR NOT, MY

FAMILY. SO ALL I WANT TO SAY IS THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUES, AND I FOUND

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

THAT IN MY NINE YEARS HERE EVERY YEAR IT BECOMES MORE AND MORE

IMPACTFUL. THE RECOGNITION IS MORE AND MORE IMPACTFUL. IT IS THE

VIETNAM VETERANS THAT FOUGHT FOR VETERANS' BENEFITS TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO

UNDERSTAND WHAT WE STOOD FOR AND WHAT WE DID. WE DID IT SO THAT

THOSE TODAY CAN DO THE PROTESTS, BUT THE PROTESTS OF TODAY ARE A LITTLE

DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE FACED. WE DIDN'T FACE VIOLENCE BUT WE FACED

HORRORS. I'M ONLY BRINGING THIS UP BECAUSE I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT I AM

GRATEFUL. I AM GRATEFUL TO BE HERE. I'M GRATEFUL FOR THE NATION. I'M

GRATEFUL FOR MY COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLES THAT I HAVE BEEN

HONORED TO BECOME FRIENDS WITH. BUT THE ONE THING THAT I WANT TO END

WITH THAT REALLY IS DISTURBING TO ME AND DISTURBING TO ALL VETERANS I TALK

TO IS THE LACK OF ABILITY TO BE -- TO BE -- TO FACE THE CONSEQUENCES OF

ONE'S OWN ACTIONS IN TODAY'S WORLD. THERE'S TOO MANY EXCUSES AND NOT

ENOUGH SELF-REFLECTION. BUT WITH THAT I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO ALL.

I'M PROUD TO BE BACK. I'M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN AND I'M PROUD TO

BE PART OF THIS BODY. THANK YOU ALL MY FRIENDS.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU, MR.

MORINELLO.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. BROOK-KRASNY ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. BROOK-KRASNY: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. IT'S A BIG HONOR FOR ME TO SPEAK AFTER MY COLLEAGUE JUDGE

MORINELLO, BUT LET ME JUST PUT SOME ADDITIONAL HANDLE WHY VIETNAM

WAR WAS A PROPER RIGHT AND IMPORTANT WAR FOR THE HISTORY OF HUMAN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

CIVILIZATION. FIRST OF ALL, I'M VERY GRATEFUL TO MY COLLEAGUE FOR

INTRODUCING THIS RESOLUTION, AND TO MY COLLEAGUES FOR HOPEFULLY

SUPPORTING IT.

I SPENT ALMOST HALF OF MY LIFE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE

IRON CURTAIN, AND LET ME TELL YOU, WITHOUT THE FIGHT AND A BIG SACRIFICE

OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, IN VIETNAM AND KOREAN WAR, WE MIGHT STILL

EXPERIENCE THE EXISTENCE OF AN EVIL EMPIRE IN THIS WORLD CALLED SOVIET

UNION. THE WAR IN VIETNAM AND THE WAR IN KOREA PUT A FOUNDATION IN

THE PROCESS OF DISMANTLING SOVIET UNION. SOVIET UNION DISAPPEARED

ABOUT 15 YEARS LATER. THE WAR IN VIETNAM ENDED IN 1975, THE SOVIET

UNION DISAPPEARED IN 1991. IT WAS A FIGHT AGAINST SOCIALISM AND

COMMUNISM. SOCIALISM IS A VERY BAD THING. LET ME TELL YOU THAT AS A

PERSON WHO HAS BEEN STANDING IN THREE HOUR LINES TO GET A PIECE OF

BREAD, AND IT'S NOT A FIGURE OF SPEECH. I KNOW SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES

WOULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M SAYING NOW. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO LEARN FROM

THE HISTORY OF SOVIET UNION, JUST TRY TO LEARN FROM A SHORT HISTORY OF

VENEZUELA, AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHY SO MANY PEOPLE FROM VENEZUELA

ARE TRYING TO COME HERE, TRYING TO ESCAPE SOCIALISM. MARGARET

THATCHER ONCE SAID THAT THE IDEA OF SOCIALISM IS THAT WHEN SOCIALISTS

RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT OUR BUDGET

PROCESS WOULD NEVER REACH THAT POINT.

THE IRONY IS THAT SOME PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES

NOW IS PROMOTING SOCIALISM AND I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT. THE

IDEA OF SOCIALISM MAY SOUND WONDERFUL, BUT THE REALITY OF SOCIALISM IS

VERY BAD. I'M SO HONORED TO SPEAK TODAY ON THIS RESOLUTION. I'M SO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

HONORED AND I'M VERY SORRY THAT I'M SHOWING MY BACK TO OUR GREAT

VIETNAM VETERANS, THAT WAS A RIGHT WAR. THAT WAR PROVIDED THE JUSTICE

TO THE WORLD AND THE HUMAN CIVILIZATION. AND I'M SO GRATEFUL ON BEHALF

OF MY FAMILY, AND MANY FAMILIES FROM THE FORMER SOVIET UNION, TO ALL

OF YOU. I THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M AN AMERICAN NOW. I'M

REPRESENTING ABOUT 130,000 AMERICANS. IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN

WITHOUT YOUR SACRIFICE. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. ANGELINO ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

THROUGH THIS RESOLUTION NEW YORK STATE IS NOW RIGHTFULLY GETTING

THANKS TO THESE GENTLEMEN AND MANY, MANY OTHERS WHO WENT TO

VIETNAM, DID WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO DO AND CAME BACK. SO AS A STATE

WE ARE GRATEFUL. I WANT TO OFFER MY PERSONAL THANKS. I ENLISTED IN THE

UNITED STATES MARINES IN 1985. THERE WERE STILL A FEW VIETNAM

VETERANS REMAINING. YOU COULD SPOT THEM A MILE AWAY BECAUSE OF THAT

GREEN AND WHITE RIBBON THEY HAD ON THEIR CHEST. WE TRIED TO AVOID

THEM. WE DIDN'T WANT TO ANGER THEM BECAUSE WE WERE LONELY

NONCOMBATANTS WHO HAD NEVER HAD A SERVICE RIBBON, BUT WITHIN A FEW

YEARS, DESERT SHIELD AND DESERT STORM KICKED OFF. AND THOSE VIETNAM

VETERANS TAUGHT THE NEW, YOUNG MARINE CORPS THAT HAD NOT BEEN IN A

BATTLE IN DECADES, YOU BROUGHT TO US THAT FIELD CRAFT. YOU TAUGHT US THE

THINGS THAT WEREN'T TAUGHT IN BOOKS, AND FOR THAT I AM PERSONALLY

GRATEFUL BECAUSE IT MAY HAVE SAVED MY LIFE IN A MINEFIELD. SO UPON

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

RETURNING FROM DESERT STORM IN 1991, THE VIETNAM WAR HAD BEEN

EXERCISED IN THE AMERICAN MEMORY. THE AMERICAN PSYCHE FELT GUILT

FOR WHAT THESE PEOPLE CAME HOME TO. SO WHEN WE CAME HOME FROM

SOUTHWEST ASIA, WE HAD THE HUGE PARADE IN D.C. WE HAD THE WELCOME

HOME PARTIES. WE WENT INTO BARS AND NEVER BOUGHT A DRINK FOR MONTHS.

WE GOT THE WELCOME HOME THAT YOU DID NOT, AND WE OWE YOU AND FOR

THAT I AM SORRY FOR HOW YOU WERE TREATED UPON YOUR RETURN. THAT

MAKES THIS RESOLUTION MAYBE A LITTLE BIT EASIER FOR YOU TO REALIZE THE

NATION WAS IN FACT GRATEFUL AND I PERSONALLY AM GRATEFUL FOR WHAT YOU

DID FOR ME.

PLEASE, MADAM SPEAKER, THIS IS SUCH AN AMAZING DAY

AND THANK YOU FOR COMING UP AND GIVING YOUR HEART TO THESE VETERANS

EARLY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. SLATER ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. SLATER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I WANT

TO THANK THE SPONSOR OF THIS RESOLUTION NOT JUST FOR PUTTING IT FORWARD,

BUT FOR HIS PARTNERSHIP IN MAKING THIS SPECIAL DAY A REALITY. VIETNAM

VETERANS DAY MEANS A LOT TO THIS COUNTRY. FOR ME I THINK ABOUT MY

DEAR FRIEND AND A FORMER COLLEAGUE OF OURS HERE IN THE STATE ASSEMBLY,

ROBERT J. CASTELLI. BOB WAS AN INCREDIBLE PATRIOT. HE JOINED THE

UNITED STATES ARMY AT 17. HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE 7TH CALVARY IN

VIETNAM. HE WAS ON THE GROUND FOR THE TET OFFENSIVE, AND BY 19 HAD

SPENT TWO YEARS IN THAT FOREIGN COUNTRY. AND WHEN HE CAME HOME, JUST

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

AS YOU HEARD FROM MY COLLEAGUE BEHIND ME, HE WAS NOT TREATED

PROPERLY. HE WAS NOT TREATED WITH THE RESPECT AND THE DIGNITY THAT WE

NOW REVERE OUR MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY WITH. AND THAT'S WHY TODAY IS

SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE IF YOU SAW SOME OF THE INDIVIDUALS BEHIND US

WHEN WE RECOGNIZED THEM HERE TODAY THERE WERE TEARS IN THEIR EYES.

TEARS IN THEIR EYES BECAUSE FOR THE FIRST TIME THEY FINALLY FELT LIKE THEY

WERE WELCOMED BACK HOME. THAT'S WHAT THIS DAY MEANS TO THEM.

THAT'S WHAT THIS DAY MEANS TO THEIR FAMILIES. AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE

TO MAKE SURE THAT WE RECOGNIZE, THAT WE CELEBRATE THE VERY FACT THAT

THEY DEFENDED FREEDOM WITH DIGNITY, THEY DEFENDED OUR COUNTRY WITH

COURAGE AND THEY DEFENDED DEMOCRACY WITH LOVE. THIS IS A VERY

SPECIAL DAY FOR SO MANY INCREDIBLE HEROS. I WANT TO THANK ALL OF MY

COLLEAGUES WHO PARTICIPATED IN THIS DAY AND TO THE GREAT VIETNAM

VETERANS WHO ARE HERE TODAY AND WHO ARE WATCHING, MISSION

ACCOMPLISHED. WELCOME HOME. GOD BLESS YOU. THANK YOU ALL VERY

MUCH.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. TAGUE ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. AS A

SON OF A VIETNAM VETERAN, A NEPHEW AND JUST GRATEFUL FOR THE

OPPORTUNITY TO STAND HERE AND BE ONE OF YOU THAT REPRESENTS OVER 20

MILLION NEW YORKERS, IT'S BECAUSE OF THOSE BRAVE VETERANS THAT EACH

AND EVERY ONE OF US STAND HERE TODAY AND I WAS BORN DURING THE

VIETNAM WAR, AND IT'S JUST A TRUE HONOR TO BE ABLE TO BE HERE TODAY AND

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

SAY THANK YOU TO THESE GREAT FOLKS. AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU

AGAIN TO WAYNE JACKSON, TO KEN BLANKENBUSH, AND TO JUDGE ANGELO

MORINELLO. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND DEDICATION TO OUR NATION.

AND LET US NOT FORGET ABOUT THE 58,220 SOLDIERS THAT NEVER CAME BACK

HOME. WE CAN NEVER FORGET THEM, THEIR SACRIFICE AND WHAT THEY HAVE

DONE FOR OUR COUNTRY, OR THEIR FAMILIES THAT HAVE BEEN LEFT BEHIND.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT IT'S TAKEN 55 YEARS FOR US TO FINALLY

SAY THANK YOU AND WELCOME HOME. AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT REALLY

MATTERS TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU THAT WE SAY IT BUT I'M GOING TO

SAY IT AGAIN, THANK YOU FROM A GRATEFUL NATION, A GRATEFUL SON OF

AMERICA IN NEW YORK, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND DEDICATION TO

THIS NATION, THANK YOU FOR MAKING ME FREE, THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING

THAT YOU HAVE DONE FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US, WELCOME HOME, GOD

BLESS YOU, GOD BLESS AMERICA AND THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. NOVAKHOV ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. NOVAKHOV: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE SPONSOR OF THIS RESOLUTION AND

DURING THE LUNCHEON WITH OUR VIETNAM VETERANS, I HAD A SMALL TALK

WITH MR. LUCAS, JOHN LUCAS - HE'S RIGHT HERE, AND HE SAID, HE ASKED ME

THAT IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE CAN RECOGNIZE -- HE WAS IN THE K9, SO HE

SAID IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE CAN RECOGNIZE OUR BEST FRIENDS, THE DOGS

WHO SERVED IN THE ARMY. SO -- AND MR. LUCAS TOLD ME HE STILL

REMEMBERS HIS DOG. HIS NAME WAS ERIC AND HIS NUMBER TATTOOED ON

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

HIS EAR WAS 4388. MR. LUCAS, WE RECOGNIZE YOUR BEST FRIEND, YOUR DOG

ERIC, AND THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH EVERYONE FOR YOUR SERVICE, AND THANK

YOU, THANK YOU. WE CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. CHANG ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. CHANG: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, AND

THANK YOU FOR THE SPONSOR FOR THIS IMPORTANT EVENT. I MYSELF IS A -- A

WAR VETERAN SERVING AFGHANISTAN 2009, 2010. AS I WAS LEAVING

AFGHANISTAN IN BAGRAM AIR FORCE BASE ON A C-5, CHARLIE FIVE, GOING

BACK TO KUWAIT, LANDED THERE IN THE DESERT, I GOT A WARM WELCOME BY

MY FELLOW MILITARY PERSONNEL, VERY WARM WELCOME. AND

UNFORTUNATELY COMPARED TO CONTRAST OF OUR VIETNAM WAR VETERANS HERE

WHO DID NOT RECEIVE. SO FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, PERSONALLY FROM

ME, FROM A WAR VETERAN TO ANOTHER WAR VETERAN, WELCOME BACK.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. I AM GRATEFUL BECAUSE YOU LEAD THE WAY TO

LET THE -- LET THE PEOPLE IN AMERICA THAT WE WILL NEVER DISRESPECT A

VETERAN EVER AGAIN. THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. KASSAY ON THE RESOLUTION.

MS. KASSAY: GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU SO

MUCH FOR COMING HERE TO THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE TODAY. I ECHO ALL THE

WORDS OF MY COLLEAGUES, THE GRATITUDE, THE -- THE FEELING OF BEING SO

HUMBLED BY THE SERVICE OF THE FOLKS IN THE ROOM TODAY. AND I WANT TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ADD TO THAT AND SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I HOPE LEADERSHIP AND COLLEAGUES

WILL SUPPORT OUR STATE VETERANS HOMES WHO SERVE OUR VETERANS CURRENT

AND HAVE SERVED IN THE PAST AND IN THE FUTURE. I AM SUFFOLK COUNTY, WE

HAVE THE LONG ISLAND STATE VETERANS HOME THERE AND IT IS JUST A

PHENOMENAL, PHENOMENAL INSTITUTION THAT PROVIDES A LOVING AND

MEDICAL CARE FOR OUR VETERANS. I'M FIGHTING HARD EVERYDAY TO MAKE

SURE IT GETS THE FUNDING AND SUPPORT IT DESERVES, AS WELL AS THE OTHER

STATE VETS HOMES HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.

SO I HOPE MY COLLEAGUES WILL JOIN ME IN THAT AS WELL

AS JOINING IN HONORING THESE INCREDIBLE VIETNAM VETERANS HERE TODAY.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

(APPLAUSE)

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 262, MS.

RAJKUMAR.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 2025, AS PUNJABI AWARENESS MONTH IN

THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE OBSERVANCE OF

VAISAKHI TO BE CELEBRATED APRIL 14, 2025.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. RAJKUMAR ON

THE RESOLUTION.

MS. RAJKUMAR: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. AS

THE FIRST PUNJABI AMERICAN EVER ELECTED TO A STATE OFFICE, IT IS WITH

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ENORMOUS PRIDE THAT I INTRODUCE A "FIRST OF ITS KIND" RESOLUTION WHEREBY

THIS BODY WILL RECOGNIZE THE MONTH OF APRIL AS PUNJABI HERITAGE

MONTH IN OUR GREAT STATE AND OFFICIALLY NAME VAISAKHI DAY IN NEW

YORK STATE IN HONOR OF OUR SIKH-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

IT IS TRUE THAT I AM A DAUGHTER OF THE PUNJABI, A STATE OF

NORTH INDIA. MY ANCESTORS ARE FROM UMBERSARF, FROM THE OLD CITY OF

PATI. THE REGION OF PUNJABI IS THE HEART OF THE SIKH-AMERICAN

COMMUNITY. AND LIKE MANY PUNJABI FAMILIES ACROSS OUR GREAT STATE,

MY FAMILY IMMIGRATED TO THE UNITED STATES FOR THIS AMERICAN DREAM

SETTLING HERE IN NEW YORK WHERE I WAS BORN AND RAISED. AND I AM

PROUD TO NOW BE THE ASSEMBLYWOMAN FOR THE BEAUTIFUL QUEENS

NEIGHBORHOOD OF RICHMOND HILL, KNOWN BY MANY AS LITTLE PUNJABI. I

AM PROUD TO SAY THAT THE 38TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT HAS THE NEIGHBORHOOD

OF RICHMOND HILL WHICH IS KNOWN AS THE SIKH CAPITAL OF THE UNITED

STATES. RICHMOND HILL IS HOME TO NEW YORK CITY'S FIRST SIKH TEMPLE

KNOWN AS A GURDWARA AND IT IS THE CULTURAL CENTER OF THE SIKH

COMMUNITY. I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU A BIT ABOUT THE SIKH-AMERICAN

COMMUNITY. AT EVERY GURDWARA ACROSS OUR COUNTRY FOOD IS MADE AND

OFFERED FREE OF CHARGE TO ANYONE NO MATTER THEIR RELIGION, GENDER,

ECONOMIC STATUS OR ETHNICITY. THIS IS THE SIKH PRACTICE OF LANGAR

SERVING FREE FOOD TO ALL WITH NO DISCRIMINATION. AND THEY OFFER

EVERYONE FREE FOOD EVERY SINGLE DAY. SIKHS ARE REQUIRED TO DEFEND THE

FREEDOM OF WORSHIP OF OTHER RELIGIONS JUST AS THEY WOULD DEFEND THEIR

OWN. AS MY UNCLE ALWAYS TOLD ME, THE SIKHS ARE OUR PROTECTORS.

SADLY, SIKH-AMERICANS ARE AMONG OUR NATION'S MOST TARGETED RELIGIOUS

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

GROUPS BECAUSE OF THEIR DISTINCT APPEARANCE WEARING TURBANS ON THEIR

HEAD. THERE HAS BEEN A 200 PERCENT RISE IN HATE CRIMES AGAINST

SIKH-AMERICANS IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS. BUT THE SIKH COMMUNITY

FORGES ON WITH JOY AND DETERMINATION PROMOTING TOLERANCE AND UNITY.

SO ON THIS PUNJABI HERITAGE MONTH, WE COMMIT TO ENDING HATE CRIMES

AGAINST ALL GROUPS. THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT FOR SIKH-AMERICANS IN OUR

GREAT STATE. ALREADY THIS BODY HAS MADE HISTORY BY MAKING DIWALI

(INAUDIBLE) A SCHOOL HOLIDAY IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK. I WAS PROUD TO

LEAD AND WIN THAT FIGHT HAND IN HAND WITH ALL OF YOU. WE LIFTED THE

SOUTH ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND WE SHOWED THAT THE NATION SEES

THEM, HEARS THEM AND THEY BELONG.

SO IN CONCLUSION, THIS APRIL IS VAISAKHI, ONE OF THE

MOST HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT CELEBRATIONS FOR THIS COMMUNITY. ON THIS

VAISAKHI, TO ALL NEW YORKERS MAY YOUR HEART DANCE, MAY YOU BE

SHOWERED WITH HAPPINESS. IN RICHMOND HILL THE DOLDRUMS PLAY AND

GURDWARAS ARE ADORNED WITH COLOR.

SO ON BEHALF OF PUNJABI AMERICANS, ON BEHALF OF

RICHMOND HILL, I PROUDLY SUBMIT TO YOU THIS HISTORIC RESOLUTION.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. CHANG ON THE RESOLUTION.

MR. CHANG: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER AND

THANK YOU FOR THE RESOLUTION SPONSORED BY RAJKUMAR. NEARLY 30 YEARS

AGO I LIVED IN INDIA, IN NEW DELHI LIVING AMONGST THE PUNJABIS THERE

FOR SEVERAL YEARS. AND I FIND THE CULTURE, FIND THE RELIGION VERY, VERY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ARTISTIC AND VERY GRATEFUL AND VERY ANCIENT AS WELL. AND AS A -- AS A

CHINESE ETHNIC MYSELF, WE BOTH ENJOY THE CULTURE -- THE RICH CULTURE

THAT WE HAVE HERE IN AMERICA AND ALSO DISCRIMINATION THAT WE HAVE AS

ASIAN AND AS PUNJABIS WHEN THEY'RE WEARING THEIR TURBANS. SO WE HAVE

TO RECOGNIZE THAT. WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THE COMMUNITY IN PUNJABIS.

THE INDIANS ARE GROWING, VERY FAST GROWING IN NEW YORK AND

AMERICA, AND THIS RESOLUTION, I HOPE THIS WILL EDUCATE THE REST OF NEW

YORK AND AMERICA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 263, MR.

SAYEGH.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM APRIL 2025, AS ARAB AMERICAN HERITAGE

MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. SAYEGH ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MR. SAYEGH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM

SPEAKER. APRIL NATIONALLY IS HISTORICALLY RECOGNIZED AS ARAB AMERICAN

HERITAGE MONTH, AND A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO I WAS VERY PROUD TO

SPONSOR HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY ARAB AMERICAN HERITAGE DAY AND

NATIONALLY MONTH APRIL, IN NEW YORK STATE. AND I DO SO TO RECOGNIZE

A VERY INTEGRAL LARGE AND GROWING ARAB AMERICAN POPULATION

THROUGHOUT OUR STATE AND OUR NATION. I'M VERY BLESSED IN MY CITY OF

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

YONKERS, NEW YORK TO HAVE A VERY LARGE ARAB AMERICAN POPULATION

NAMELY FROM THE COUNTRY I WAS BORN IN JORDAN. AND --- AND I'VE SEEN

AS AN IMMIGRANT MYSELF HOW FAMILY LIFE AND TRADITIONAL VALUES WERE SO

CRUCIAL AND EDUCATION WAS SO CRUCIAL, AND BEING ABLE TO BE AND MAKE

THE AMERICAN DREAM COME TRUE WAS REALLY A REALITY FOR MANY OF US.

AND ARAB AMERICANS LIKE THE MANY ETHNIC GROUPS WE HONOR IN THIS

CHAMBER AND OUR STATE BRING A LOT OF VALUE TO EVERYDAY LIFE. ARAB

AMERICANS THAT NUMBER SOME OF A QUARTER-OF-A-MILLION IN NEW YORK,

AND SOME FOUR MILLION THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY HAVE BEEN VERY

INSTRUMENTAL IN PROMOTING IN THE FIELD OF MEDICINE AND LAW, ECONOMIC

DEVELOPMENT AND BUSINESS AND ENTERTAINMENT, AND TODAY I WANTED TO

JOIN IN THE EFFORT TO BRING ABOUT AN AWARENESS OF THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF

THE ARABS TO CIVILIZATION, WHETHER IN MEDICINE, IN LAW, ASTRONOMY,

NAVIGATION, IN THE MATHEMATICS AND SO FORTH. IT IS TRULY EXTREMELY

IMPORTANT THAT NOW MORE THAN EVER WITH ALL THE MISGIVINGS AND ALL THE

CONCERNS WE ARE CONFRONTED, WHETHER IN THE MIDDLE EAST OR GLOBALLY,

AND THE ATTITUDE AND THE FEELING THAT BESTOWS MISGIVINGS AND FEELINGS

ABOUT PEOPLE OF ARAB ORIGIN IS TRULY WRONG, UNJUST AND NOT RIGHT. AND

THE VALUE OF LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT LIFE IT IS, IS IMPORTANT AND SHOULD BE

CONSIDERED WHENEVER WE TALK ABOUT THE VALUE OF LIFE AND CONFLICT. SO

TODAY AS A PROUD ARAB AMERICAN, AS A JORDANIAN, AS THE ONLY ARAB

AMERICAN IN THIS CHAMBER, I CONGRATULATE THE EFFORTS ON THE NATIONAL

LEVEL AND HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY TO RESPECT AND PROMOTE AND EXEMPLIFY

THE ROLE ARAB AMERICANS PLAY IN OUR COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE, OUR

STATE AND OUR NATION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 264, MR. K.

BROWN.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM SEPTEMBER 2025, AS RECOVERY MONTH IN THE

STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BROWN ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MR. K. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. IT'S

MY PRIVILEGE TO RISE AND PRESENT THIS RESOLUTION FOR A NATIONAL RECOVERY

MONTH. NATIONAL RECOVERY MONTH IS A NATIONAL OBSERVANCE HELD EVERY

SEPTEMBER TO EDUCATE AMERICANS ABOUT SUBSTANCE USE TREATMENT AND

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES WHICH CAN ENABLE THOSE WITH MENTAL HEALTH AND

SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS TO LIVE HEALTHY AND REWARDING LIVES. NATIONAL

RECOVERY MONTH WORKS TO ENCOURAGE AND SUPPORT NEW EVIDENCE-BASED

TREATMENT AND RECOVERY PRACTICES. THE EMERGENCE OF A STRONG AND

PROUD RECOVERY COMMUNITY AND THE DEDICATION SERVICE PROVIDERS AND

COMMUNITY MEMBERS ACROSS THE NATION WHO MAKE RECOVERY IN ALL OF ITS

FORMS POSSIBLE. THIS VITAL OBSERVANCE BEGAN IN 1989 AS TREATMENT

WORKS, WHICH HONOR THE WORK OF SUBSTANCE USE TREATMENT PROFESSIONALS

IN THE FIELD. THE OBSERVANCE EVOLVED INTO NATIONAL ALCOHOL AND DRUG

ADDICTION RECOVERY MONTH IN 1998 WHEN IT EXPANDED TO INCLUDE

CELEBRATING ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF INDIVIDUALS IN RECOVERY FROM

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER. THE OBSERVANCE EVOLVED ONCE AGAIN IN 2011

TO NATIONAL RECOVERY MONTH TO INCLUDE MENTAL ILLNESS. NOW IN ITS

36TH YEARS -- 36TH YEAR, EXCUSE ME, RECOVERY MONTH CELEBRATES THE

GAINS MADE BY THOSE IN RECOVERY. RECOVERY MONTH HIGHLIGHTS THE

ACHIEVEMENTS OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE RECLAIMED THEIR LIVES IN

LONG-TERM RECOVERY AND HONORS TREATMENT AND RECOVERY SERVICE

PROVIDERS WHO MAKE RECOVERY POSSIBLE. RECOVERY MONTH ALSO

PROMOTES THE MESSAGE THAT RECOVERY IN ALL ITS FORMS IS POSSIBLE AND

ENCOURAGES CITIZENS TO TAKE ACTION TO HELP EXPAND AND IMPROVE THE

AVAILABILITY OF EFFECTIVE PREVENTION, TREATMENT AND RECOVERY SERVICES

FOR THOSE MOST VULNERABLE AND IN NEED. THE OBSERVANCE OF RECOVERY

MONTH EMPHASIZES THAT WHILE THE ROAD TO RECOVERY MAY BE DIFFICULT,

THE BENEFITS OF PREVENTING OVERCOMING BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CONDITIONS ARE

SIGNIFICANT AND VALUABLE TO INDIVIDUALS, FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES.

MADAM SPEAKER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE

OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THIS RESOLUTION.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 265, MR.

JENSEN.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM NOVEMBER 10, 2025, AS NET CANCER DAY IN

THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

PAGE 6, CALENDAR NO. 6, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE S01548-B, CALENDAR NO. 6,

FERNANDEZ (A01502, ROSENTHAL, GLICK, SIMON, GALLAGHER, LEVENBERG,

CRUZ, JACKSON, TAYLOR, LUNSFORD, RAJKUMAR, BARRETT, SHIMSKY, CLARK,

SEAWRIGHT, FORREST, COLTON, SIMONE, BORES, STECK, RAGA, DINOWITZ,

STERN, JACOBSON, KIM, HEVESI, ANDERSON, EPSTEIN, MCMAHON,

SANTABARBARA, MAMDANI, R. CARROLL, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, SHRESTHA,

TAPIA, CUNNINGHAM, EACHUS, SAYEGH, OTIS, DE LOS SANTOS, WOERNER,

HUNTER, WEPRIN, VANEL, ZINERMAN, ZACCARO, BENEDETTO, RIVERA, STIRPE,

JONES, LUPARDO, MEEKS, CONRAD, LEE, BRONSON, BUTTENSCHON, PHEFFER

AMATO, DAVILA, DILAN, RAMOS, BURKE, KELLES, ROZIC, REYES, BURDICK,

PAULIN, ALVAREZ, GIBBS, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS, ROMERO, KAY, GRIFFIN,

SCHIAVONI, MITAYNES, MCDONALD.) AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO THE RESTRICTION OF CERTAIN SUBSTANCES IN

MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. ROSENTHAL.

MS. ROSENTHAL: THIS BILL WOULD BAN UNSAFE

CHEMICALS SUCH AS LEAD, MERCURY, FORMALDEHYDE AND PFAS, WHICH ARE

FOREVER CHEMICALS, FROM BEING INCLUDED IN MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. WALSH: SO I APPEAR TO HAVE DRAWN THE STRAW TO

DO THIS DEBATE TODAY, SO I'M VERY HAPPY TO SPEAK WITH YOU ABOUT IT.

LAST YEAR THIS BILL WAS PASSED IN THE SENATE ON A C-PRINT. HAS THE BILL

CHANGED AGAIN SINCE THEN?

MS. ROSENTHAL: NO.

MS. WALSH: OKAY, BECAUSE IT DID -- IT DID -- TO BE

HONEST, IT DID LOOK DIFFERENT TO ME THIS YEAR. IT LOOKED LIKE THERE WERE

SEVERAL CHANGES THAT WERE MADE FROM LAST YEAR'S VERSION. NO?

MS. ROSENTHAL: I THINK WE ADDED INTENTIONALLY

ADDED INGREDIENTS. WE ADDED THAT TO THE BILL.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. WELL, LET'S - LET'S DO THIS. LET'S

GO THROUGH IT SECTION BY SECTION AND I'VE GOT QUESTIONS AS WE GO

THROUGH EACH ONE.

SO LOOKING AT PAGE 1 OF THE BILL, THERE'S A SECTION C

NOW CALLED RESTRICTED SUBSTANCE, WHICH WAS IN THE BILL LAST YEAR --

EXCUSE ME, LET ME GET THAT IN FRONT OF ME.

(PAUSE)

ALL RIGHT. IT WAS THERE LAST YEAR, BUT ARE THERE -- ARE

THERE DIFFERENT RESTRICTED SUBSTANCES THAT ARE ADDED, OR WERE THEY JUST

KIND OF REORDERED? I COULDN'T TELL.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MS. ROSENTHAL: I BELIEVE THEY'RE THE SAME, BUT I

HAVE TO CHECK IF THEY WERE REORDERED. I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

(PAUSE)

MS. WALSH: IT'S ALMOST LIKE READING A DEED, ISN'T IT,

WHEN YOU LOOK AT A BILL LIKE THIS, AND I'M COMPARING IT LINE BY LINE. OF

COURSE I'M LOOKING AT THE A-PRINT FROM LAST YEAR SO --

MS. ROSENTHAL: RIGHT.

MS. WALSH: -- MAYBE -- MAYBE THAT'S WHAT IT WAS.

MS. ROSENTHAL: RIGHT. EXACTLY.

MS. WALSH: MAYBE BETWEEN THE A AND THE C.

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MS. WALSH: LAST YEAR?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO I SEE THAT -- WHEN

WE TALK ABOUT INTENTIONALLY VERSUS UNINTENTIONALLY ADDED SUBSTANCES,

CAN YOU -- CAN YOU TALK ABOUT -- A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY THAT SECTION WAS

PLACED INTO THE LEGISLATION TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN INTENTIONALLY ADDED

INGREDIENTS VERSUS UNINTENTIONALLY ADDED INGREDIENTS?

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE

THAT INTENTIONALLY ADDED INGREDIENT WAS CLARIFIED HERE AND THAT IS -- THAT

ADHERED TO THE ENCON LAW WHERE WE DO DEFINE PFAS IN TERMS OF

OUTDOOR APPAREL. AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT CONTAMINATION CAN OCCUR IN

PLACES THAT THE MANUFACTURER DOES NOT HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL.

MS. WALSH: RIGHT.

MS. ROSENTHAL: SO WE LIMITED IT FOR THE FIRST

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

LITTLE WHILE TO JUST INTENTIONALLY ADDED INGREDIENTS.

MS. WALSH: YEAH. I THINK THAT THAT'S A GOOD

CHANGE TO THE BILL, THAT WAS A GOOD CHANGE BECAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING

WAS THAT -- JUST TO -- THIS IS MY ONE SIMPLE EXAMPLE AND I'M SURE THAT

THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER ONES, BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT COTTON THAT IS

USED IN THE MANUFACTURE OF TAMPONS OR PADS AND COTTON IS GROWN IN A

FIELD, AND THERE COULD BE SUBSTANCES IN THE SOIL --

MS. ROSENTHAL: RIGHT.

MS. WALSH: -- THAT COULD POTENTIALLY IN VERY TRACE

AMOUNTS GET INTO THE COTTON PRODUCT, BUT IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN

INTENTIONALLY ADDED. IT JUST WOULD HAVE BEEN PART OF THAT AGRICULTURAL

PROCESS OF GETTING THE COTTON.

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES. HOWEVER, WE STILL WANT

MANUFACTURERS TO TEST AND KEEP TRACK OF OTHER SUBSTANCES AND TAKE

CORRECTIVE ACTION IF IT'S ABOVE DE MINIMUS AMOUNTS.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO YEAH. I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT

THE AMOUNTS PART, TOO, BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT PAGE 2 OF THE BILL STARTING

AT AROUND LINE 14, IT SAYS NO MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS DISTRIBUTED, SOLD OR

OFFERED FOR SALE IN THE STATE WHETHER AT RETAIL OR WHOLESALE FOR PERSONAL,

PROFESSIONAL OR COMMERCIAL USE OR DISTRIBUTED FOR PROMOTIONAL

PURPOSES SHALL CONTAIN. SO NONE, NO AMOUNT, NO LEVEL OF THOSE

SUBSTANCES WOULD BE PERMITTED; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO THERE'S NO LIKE DE MINIMUS

AMOUNT THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED FOR THE -- FOR THE --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, RIGHT NOW --

MS. WALSH: YEAH.

MS. ROSENTHAL: -- FOR THE FIRST YEAR IT IS

INTENTIONALLY ADDED. BY 2029 AFTER DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND

DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION COME UP WITH A LIST OF

RESTRICTED SUBSTANCES, THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY WILL SET WHAT TRACE

AMOUNTS AND WHAT IS OR IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE IN.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO LET ME JUST -- JUST -- LET ME

JUST CLARIFY THAT. SO FOR THE FIRST YEAR, ANYTHING THAT WAS

UNINTENTIONALLY PRESENT IN THE PRODUCT IS... I'M NOT GOING TO SAY OKAY

BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT IT THERE AT ALL BUT --

MS. ROSENTHAL: RIGHT.

MS. WALSH: -- IT -- IT WOULD -- IT WOULD BE OKAY TO

HAVE THAT IN THERE. AND THEN BY 20 -- BY 2029?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MS. WALSH: THEN WE'RE GOING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT

ARE FEASIBLY THE LOWEST LEVEL OF THOSE INGREDIENTS THAT COULD BE PRESENT

IN THAT -- IN -- IN --

MS. ROSENTHAL: UNINTENTIONALLY.

MS. WALSH: UNINTENTIONALLY.

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MS. WALSH: AND ANYTHING ABOVE THAT LEVEL THAT'S

ESTABLISHED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH IN CONJUNCTION WITH DEC --

MS. ROSENTHAL: YEAH.

MS. WALSH: -- WOULD HAVE TO BE REMOVED.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MS. ROSENTHAL: CORRECT.

MS. WALSH: REMOVED SOMEHOW.

MS. ROSENTHAL: YEAH.

MS. WALSH: AND OKAY. SO I DID NOTICE THAT DEC

IS NOW BEING BROUGHT INTO THE DISCUSSION AND NOT JUST THE

COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH, BECAUSE ORIGINALLY I THINK IN -- FOR AN EARLIER

VERSION OF THE BILL JUST HAD THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH?

MS. ROSENTHAL: MM-HMM. OKAY.

MS. WALSH: YEAH. DO YOU KNOW WHY THE DEC

WAS ADDED IN THERE?

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, I -- I THINK PERHAPS

BECAUSE OF THE EXPERIENCE WITH THE ENCON LAW REGARDING PFAS IN

OUTDOOR APPAREL, SO THEY -- THEY DID HAVE SOME ROLE IN -- IN THAT LAW.

AND THERE'S ALSO PFAS IN FOOD PACKAGING, SO THAT WOULD ALSO BE A

DEC AREA, SO THAT'S WHY.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO THE -- OKAY. SO I GUESS ONE

OF MY QUESTIONS HAS TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL LABELING ON PRODUCTS. THAT'S

NOT REALLY DISCUSSED IN THE BILL, BUT IS THERE ANOTHER PART OF THE GENERAL

BUSINESS LAW THAT REQUIRES THAT ALL THE INGREDIENTS THAT ARE IN A PRODUCT

LIKE THIS GET LABELED?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES. WE -- WE PASSED THAT IN

2019.

MS. WALSH: OKAY.

MS. ROSENTHAL: THE MENSTRUAL PRODUCT

INGREDIENT LABELING BILL, WHICH I WAS PROUD TO SPONSOR, YES. PRODUCT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

INGREDIENTS WERE -- ARE BY LAW HAVE TO BE LISTED IN ORDER OF

PREDOMINANCE --

MS. WALSH: OKAY.

MS. ROSENTHAL: SO...

MS. WALSH: AND -- AND IS IT -- RIGHT NOW, YOU

KNOW, IF THIS BILL PASSES RIGHT NOW FOR THAT FIRST YEAR --

MS. ROSENTHAL: YEAH.

MS. WALSH: -- IT WOULD BE ANY INGREDIENT WOULD

NEED TO GO ON THAT LABEL THAT WAS INTENTIONALLY ADDED --

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MS. WALSH: -- IN DESCENDING ORDER OF BIGGEST --

MS. ROSENTHAL: CORRECT.

MS. WALSH: -- YOU KNOW --

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MS. WALSH: -- PART OF THAT PRODUCT DOWN TO THE

SMALLEST --

MS. ROSENTHAL: YEAH, LIKE COTTON DOWN TO --

MS. WALSH: YES.

MS. ROSENTHAL: -- WHATEVER THE LEAST --

MS. WALSH: OKAY, GREAT. AND THEN WHEN WE GET

TO 2029 WITH THIS OTHER SECTION HERE, WILL THE LABEL NEED TO CHANGE TO

REFLECT -- TO REFLECT THE -- THE DIFFERENT THRESHOLDS THAT ARE GOING TO BE

ESTABLISHED BY REGULATION?

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, BY 2029 THERE SHOULD BE

NO PFAS IN MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MS. WALSH: WHETHER IT'S INTENTIONAL OR

UNINTENTIONAL.

MS. ROSENTHAL: CORRECT.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. IS THAT -- IS THAT POSSIBLE, DO

YOU KNOW?

MS. ROSENTHAL: IT IS -- IT IS CLOSE TO POSSIBLE.

EVERYBODY EXPECTS THAT WHEN YOU GO TO A STORE AND YOU BUY SOMETHING

OFF THE SHELF THAT IT IS SAFE. SO WHETHER OR NOT YOU'VE RESEARCHED THE

PRODUCT, THE CHEMICAL NAMES THAT MAY APPEAR MAY BE CONFUSING.

THAT'S PART OF THE LABELING PROBLEM. BUT BY 2029 THERE SHOULD NOT BE

ANY INTENTIONAL OR NON-INTENTIONAL AND THE THRESHOLDS WILL PROBABLY BE

-- EVEN THOUGH PARTS PER TRILLION STILL CAN AFFECT THE HORMONES IN THE

BODY, THE INTENT IS NOT TO HAVE ANY EFFECT.

MS. WALSH: NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S THE INTENT.

WHY WAS 2029 SELECTED AS THE -- THE DATE?

MS. ROSENTHAL: WE THOUGHT THAT WITHIN THAT

TIME FRAME, DOH AND DEC WOULD HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO FIGURE ALL OF

THESE OUT.

MS. WALSH: AND WHO -- WHO CAME UP WITH THIS LIST

OF THE THINGS THAT CAN'T BE IN MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS?

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, THIS IS BASED ON THINGS

THAT WE KNOW HAVE BEEN USED IN MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS. AND GENERALLY

TOXIC CHEMICALS THAT HAVE BEEN USED THAT WE DON'T WANT IN THOSE

PRODUCTS.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. WELL, I MEAN -- SO I -- I GET

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

BREAKING NEWS SENT TO MY CELL PHONE. IT SEEMS LIKE THE LAST FEW DAYS

I'VE BEEN GETTING ONES ABOUT MICROPLASTICS --

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MS. WALSH: -- THAT THERE'S MICROPLASTICS IN MY

CHEW -- CHEWING GUM OR THAT THERE'S MICRO --

MS. ROSENTHAL: ALSO IN OUR BRAINS RIGHT NOW WE

HAVE MICROPLASTICS.

MS. WALSH: YEAH, IT'S TERRIFYING. IT'S ABSOLUTELY

TERRIFYING. I MEAN THE FDA HAS SAID THAT --

MS. ROSENTHAL: SHH.

MS. WALSH: -- THAT THESE MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS ARE

SAFE, AND THAT THEY ARE --

MS. ROSENTHAL: NO. THE FDA DOES -- DOES NOT

REGULATE MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS.

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, THEY REGULATE TAMPONS AS

MEDICAL DEVICES. THEY'RE CLEARED BY THE FDA TO BE USED FOR ONE TIME

AND THEN THROW AWAY. THEY'VE CLEARED TAMPONS. THEY'RE MADE OF

COTTON, RAYON OR BLEND OF THE TWO.

MS. ROSENTHAL: THEY DON'T SPECIFICALLY SAY WHAT

INGREDIENTS CANNOT OR CAN BE IN THERE.

MS. WALSH: BUT BEFORE TAMPONS CAN BE LEGALLY

SOLD IN THE U.S., THEY HAVE TO DO THROUGH THE FDA'S REVIEW TO

DETERMINE WHETHER THEY'RE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE AS LEGALLY-MARKETED

TAMPONS, THOUGH.

MS. ROSENTHAL: THERE WERE -- IN THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MAMAVATION AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH NEWS IN LAB ANALYSES

COMMISSIONED BETWEEN 2020 AND 2022, 48 PERCENT OF SANITARY PADS,

INCONTINENCE PADS, PANTY LINERS TESTED WERE FOUND TO CONTAIN PFAS, AS

WERE 22 PERCENT OF TAMPONS AND 65 PERCENT OF PERIOD UNDERWEAR. SO

WHATEVER THE FDA REGULATED OR DIDN'T REGULATE, ALL OF THESE TOXINS WERE

FOUND IN MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS.

MS. WALSH: AND DO WE HAVE ANY DATA THAT SAYS AT

WHAT LEVEL -- FOR PFAS, FOR EXAMPLE, IS CONSIDERED TO BE HARMFUL TO --

MS. ROSENTHAL: NO. NO LEVELS --

MS. WALSH: WE DON'T HAVE ANY DATA ON THAT.

MS. ROSENTHAL: BASICALLY NO LEVEL IS SAFE.

MS. WALSH: NO LEVEL IS SAFE AT ALL?

MS. ROSENTHAL: CORRECT.

MS. WALSH: OKAY, WHICH IS WHY I GAVE UP

CHEWING GUM FOR THE MICROPLASTICS, YEP. OKAY. SO, JUST CHECKING MY

NOTES HERE.

(PAUSE)

MS. ROSENTHAL: OKAY.

MS. WALSH: I GUESS I JUST WANT TO CIRCLE BACK TO THE

QUESTION ABOUT PACKAGING AND LABELING.

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MS. WALSH: BECAUSE IT -- IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY

ATTENTION THAT THE PACKAGING -- THE MANUFACTURING OF PACKAGING FOR

PRODUCTS, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN JUST FLIP A SWITCH ON AN ASSEMBLY LINE

AND BOOM, THE PACKAGING IS GOING TO CHANGE TO SAY SOMETHING ELSE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MS. ROSENTHAL: RIGHT.

MS. WALSH: THERE ARE ISSUES AS FAR AS IF THERE

NEEDS TO BE DIFFERENT LABELING, HOW MUCH LEAD TIME IS GOING TO BE

NECESSARY IN ORDER TO CHANGE THAT PRODUCTION LINE, AND THEN THERE'S AN

ISSUE OF WHAT DO YOU DO WITH OLDER STOCK THAT MIGHT BE ON THE SHELVES

THAT MAYBE DOESN'T HAVE THE CORRECT NEW LABEL ON IT. SO HAS THERE BEEN

ANY CONSIDERATION ON THAT?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES. ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, IN

CONSULTATION OR IN MEETINGS WITH SOME OF THE INDUSTRY THEY DID NOT

OBJECT TO A ONE-YEAR TIMELINE.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE

ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS.

MS. ROSENTHAL: THANK YOU.

MS. WALSH: MADAM SPEAKER, VERY -- VERY BRIEFLY

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MS. WALSH: YEAH. I'VE BEEN KIND OF FOLLOWING THIS

LEGISLATION FOR, I GUESS, A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW REALLY TO SEE HOW IT WAS

CHANGING AND I DO THINK THAT THE CONCEPT OF TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT

ARE INTENTIONALLY ADDED VERSUS THINGS THAT ARE UNINTENTIONALLY

POTENTIALLY PRESENT IN PRODUCTS IS AN IMPORTANT THING THAT IS FAIRER TO THE

MANUFACTURERS. I JUST THINK THAT -- I DON'T THINK WE'VE GOT, I DON'T

KNOW. I'M CONCERNED THAT I DON'T THINK WE'VE GOT ENOUGH DATA TO

REALLY -- I MEAN, I'M LOOKING AT THE LIST OF THINGS THAT -- THAT YOU'RE NOT

SUPPOSED TO HAVE IN THE PRODUCTS, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE ME WHEN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

WE TALK ABOUT EXCLUDING THINGS LIKE LEAD AND MERCURY AND

FORMALDEHYDE AND, YOU KNOW, TOLUENE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THERE'S

SOME STUFF I CAN'T EVEN PRONOUNCE IN THIS LIST. AND I -- I DON'T KNOW

WHETHER JUST ANY TRACE AMOUNT IS DAMAGING TO A WOMAN WHO USES IT OR,

OR NOT. I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T THINK WE KNOW THAT. SO I DON'T KNOW

WHAT THE MAGIC NUMBER IS WITH 2029, WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO HAVE

REGULATIONS THAT ARE GOING TO FIGURE THIS OUT, BUT I -- I GUESS I'M JUST -- I

JUST FEEL LIKE WE'RE -- WE CAN UNINTENTIONALLY BE REALLY SCARING WOMEN

WHEN WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ALL THE DATA. I MEAN I GET THE IDEA THAT YOU

WANT TO LABEL STUFF, BUT THE OTHER PART OF IT, TOO, IS THAT WE HAVE ORGANIC

PRODUCTS THAT PROBABLY MORE RELIABLY DON'T HAVE ANY OF THIS STUFF IN IT.

THEY'RE REALLY EXPENSIVE. SO THERE IS AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE THAT

THERE IS A CHOICE ALREADY OUT THERE FOR WOMEN THAT ARE PARTICULARLY

WORRIED ABOUT THESE -- THESE LISTS OF INGREDIENTS. THEY CAN MAKE A

CHOICE NOW IF THEY WANT SPEND EXTRA MONEY TO DO IT, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S

-- I THINK THE BILL HAS GOTTEN BETTER. I -- I HOPE THAT IT CAN CONTINUE TO

BE WORKED ON A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT -- BUT IT'S GETTING THERE, IT'S GETTING

THERE, AND I DO APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 365TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. ROSENTHAL TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. ROSENTHAL: TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. CHEMICALS

IN MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS HAVE BEEN LINKED TO VARIOUS HEALTH CONDITIONS

BECAUSE VAGINAL TISSUE IS MUCH MORE ABSORPTIVE THAN OTHER SKIN. THE

PRESENCE OF TOXIC CHEMICALS IN MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS CAN CAUSE AN

INCREASED RISK OF CANCERS INCLUDING BREAST CANCER, ENDOCRINE

DISRUPTION, ORGAN DAMAGE, ASTHMA, ALLERGIC REACTIONS AND OTHER

CONDITIONS. THE FACT IS THAT ITEMS THAT WOMEN PUT IN AND ON THEIR

BODIES SHOULD BE FREE OF ANY CHEMICALS THAT COULD EVEN POSSIBLY CAUSE

ADVERSE HEALTH IMPACTS, WHICH IS WHY I INTRODUCED THIS BILL AND I

WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE JUSTGREEN PARTNERSHIP, ESPECIALLY BOBBI

WILDING FROM CLEAN+HEALTHY FOR BEING A CONSTANT INSPIRATION AND

CONSULTING BENEFIT, AND FOR GETTING THIS OVER THE FINISH LINE. THIS WILL

SAVE MANY, MANY PEOPLE ADVERSE HEALTH EFFECTS AND WE DESERVE NOT TO

HAVE PRODUCTS THAT CAN INTERFERE WITH OUR HEALTH IN A -- IN A BAD WAY.

SO I VOTE YES. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. ROSENTHAL IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MS. WALSH FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM

SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO INTERRUPT THE PROCEEDINGS FOR AN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

INTRODUCTION TODAY ON BEHALF OF ASSEMBLYMEMBER JAKE BLUMENCRANZ.

WE WELCOME AND INTRODUCE TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER DR. GINA J.

WOUTERS, WHO IS PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE PLANTING FIELDS FOUNDATION

WHICH IS LOCATED IN OYSTER BAY. IT'S ONE OF LONG ISLAND'S MOST

TREASURED HISTORIC ESTATES SPANNING 409 ACRES OF METICULOUSLY

PRESERVED ARCHITECTURE, LANDSCAPES AND HORTICULTURAL COLLECTIONS. IT

STANDS AS A TESTAMENT TO THE REGION'S RICH HISTORY FROM ITS ORIGINS AS

FERTILE LAND CULTIVATED BY THE -- OH, BOY -- WHAT IS IT? OH, THE COE

FAMILY, YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. BUT THERE WERE EARLIER PEOPLE, THE

MATINECOCK PEOPLE -- TO ITS TRANSFORMATION INTO A GOLD COAST ESTATE.

TODAY WITH THE LEADERSHIP OF DR. WOUTERS AND THE WORK OF THE PLANTING

FIELDS FOUNDATION, THIS EXTRAORDINARY SITE WELCOMES OVER 200,000

VISITORS ANNUALLY AND OFFERS A WIDE ARRAY OF CULTURAL, EDUCATIONAL AND

ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAMS ENSURING THAT FUTURE GENERATIONS CAN

EXPERIENCE AND LEARN FROM THIS REMARKABLE LANDMARK. DR. WOUTERS

BRINGS A DISTINGUISHED BACKGROUND IN MUSEUM LEADERSHIP, HISTORIC

PRESERVATION AND CULTURAL PROGRAMMING MAKING HER AN EXCEPTIONAL

STEWARD OF THIS ICONIC ESTATE. SHE AND HER TEAM'S DEDICATION TO KEEPING

PLANTING FIELDS A DYNAMIC AND ENGAGING DESTINATION, REFLECTS A DEEP

COMMITMENT TO EDUCATION, CONSERVATION AND THE ARTS.

MADAM SPEAKER, I ASK THAT YOU EXTEND TO DR. WOUTERS

ALL THE CORDIALITIES AND PRIVILEGES OF THIS HOUSE AS WE RECOGNIZE HER

INVALUABLE CONTRIBUTIONS TO PRESERVING AND SHARING LONG ISLAND'S

HISTORY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ON BEHALF OF MS. WALSH, MR. BLUMENCRANZ, THE

SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU TO THE CHAMBER.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR ALL OF THE WORK THAT YOU DO. IT SOUNDS

VERY FASCINATING LIKE A LOVELY PLACE WE SHOULD ALL VISIT. WE EXTEND THE

PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU. HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

(APPLAUSE)

PAGE 6, CALENDAR NO. 9, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02565, CALENDAR NO.

9, DINOWITZ, ROSENTHAL, STECK, WALKER, WEPRIN, VANEL, KELLES, OTIS,

LUNSFORD, ALVAREZ, COLTON, SEAWRIGHT. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL

PROCEDURE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE NEW YORK ELECTRONIC

COMMUNICATIONS PRIVACY ACT ("NYECPA").

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. DINOWITZ.

MR. DINOWITZ: THIS BILL WILL ENSURE THAT THE LAW

ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS OBTAIN A WARRANT FOR A PHYSICAL OR ELECTRONIC

COMMUNICATION INFORMATION TO GET ACCESS TO IT, INCLUDING DATA FROM

PERSONAL ELECTRONIC DEVICES, E-MAILS, DIGITAL DOCUMENTS, TEXT MESSAGES

AND LOCATION INFORMATION UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MORINELLO.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

YIELD?

MR. DINOWITZ: OF COURSE I WILL, MR. MORINELLO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MORINELLO: MR. SPONSOR, I KNOW I CAN'T

MENTION YOUR NAME. I'VE READ ALL OF THE --

MR. DINOWITZ: I THINK YOU CAN. I THINK YOU ONLY

NOT MENTION MY NAME WHEN EXPLAINING YOUR VOTE, I BELIEVE IS THE RULE.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. THANK YOU. MR.

DINOWITZ, I HAVE LOOKED -- THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR -- FIFTH YEAR THIS BILL HAS

COME TO THE FLOOR. THERE'S BEEN MANY DEBATES. I HAVE TRIED TO NOT

REPEAT. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS, BUT NOT REPEAT WHAT HAS BEEN DONE

BEFORE. I'VE READ THE TRANSCRIPTS.

MR. DINOWITZ: EXCELLENT.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. NUMBER ONE, DURING AN

INVESTIGATION OF A CRIME, DOES THIS PREVENT LAW ENFORCEMENT FROM

CHECKING PINGS FROM PHONES OR CARS TO -- TO DETERMINE WHO MAY HAVE

BEEN AT A LOCATION WITHOUT A WARRANT?

MR. DINOWITZ: I -- I -- I -- I KNOW HOW TO ANSWER

THAT. HOW DO YOU CHECK A PING?

(PAUSE)

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CHECK A PING. I BARELY KNOW

HOW TO CHECK THE PHONE.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. I DON'T EITHER.

MR. DINOWITZ: BUT I BELIEVE THAT THIS BILL DOESN'T

EXACTLY ADDRESS THAT.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. THANK YOU. THERE --

THERE IS A SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE ACCESS WITHOUT A WARRANT FOR EITHER

A, IF THE DEVICE IS STOLEN, ABANDONED OR LOST. THEY CAN ACCESS IT TO

DETERMINE OWNERSHIP. IF DURING THAT, A WARRANT MUST ACCESS THAT

THEY'RE DOING IT LEGITIMATELY TO DETERMINE. THE EVIDENCE OF A CRIME

COMES UP SIMILAR TO PLAIN VIEW. CAN THEY PROCEED OR DO THEY HAVE TO

STOP DETERMINING THE OWNERSHIP AND THEN GO OBTAIN A WARRANT?

MR. DINOWITZ: I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE PRUDENT

THING TO DO WOULD BE TO OBTAIN A WARRANT.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. IF IT'S IN PLAIN VIEW

YOU'RE SAYING THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO DO A WARRANT OR -- I'M SORRY. I

COULDN'T HEAR THE ANSWER.

MR. DINOWITZ: TO -- TO LIKE LOOK AT THE

INFORMATION, THEY WOULD NEED A WARRANT.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. SO THEY COULD DETERMINE

EVIDENCE OF A CRIME, BUT TO GO ANY FURTHER THEY WOULD HAVE TO OBTAIN A

WARRANT.

MR. DINOWITZ: YEAH. IT'S -- IT'S KIND OF LIKE, YOU

KNOW, WE'RE SORT OF ON A DIFFERENT LEVEL NOW, WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD.

BEFORE EVERYTHING WAS ON PAPER AND YOU HAD TO GET A WARRANT TO LOOK

AT THINGS, BUT NOW A LOT OF INFORMATION IS, YOU KNOW, WHEREVER IT IS AND

IT'S -- I MEAN YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL. I MEAN I'M SURE THIS COUNTRY

IS SAFE AND SECURE BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD BE DUMB ENOUGH TO SEND OUT

TEXT MESSAGES LIKE FROM CABINET OFFICIALS AND THE VICE-PRESIDENT ON,

YOU KNOW, VERY IMPORTANT NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION. WE WANT TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MAKE SURE THAT INFORMATION COULD BE AVAILABLE EVEN IF IT'S ELECTRONIC,

BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S DONE THE RIGHT WAY JUST AS WE WANT TO

MAKE SURE THAT INFORMATION GOTTEN THROUGH WARRANTS FROM, YOU KNOW,

EVIDENCE THAT'S ACTUALLY TOUCHED. SO IT'S JUST SORT OF TAKING THINGS TO THE

NEXT STEP, GIVING THE MODERNIZATION AND FOR THE CHANGES THAT HAVE

TAKEN PLACE IN RECENT YEARS.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, I CAN

SEE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT OF PRIVACY. AND

IN THIS DAY -- I WILL HAVE A QUESTION, BUT IN THIS DAY AND AGE IT BECOMES

MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID, INFORMATION'S ALL OVER. IT'S IN THE

-- WHATEVER THEY CALL IT, THE CLOUD. BUT --

MR. DINOWITZ: YEAH. BUT WE WANT TO BALANCE ON

WANTING TO PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION --

MR. MORINELLO: YES.

MR. DINOWITZ: -- (INAUDIBLE) RIGHTS, BUT ON THE

OTHER HAND MAKING SURE THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS TOOLS THAT THEY NEED,

BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY DO THINGS WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE

CONSTITUTION, WHICH AT THE MOMENT IS STILL IN EFFECT IN THIS COUNTRY.

MR. MORINELLO: NOW THIS REFERRED -- THERE'S

SOME REFERENCES IN NUMEROUS PLACES TO EMERGENCY SITUATIONS.

MR. DINOWITZ: RIGHT.

MR. MORINELLO: RECENTLY THERE WAS A PRESS

CONFERENCE I WAS AT DEALING WITH SEX TRAFFICKING, WHICH IS A VERY

MOBILE TYPE OF ACTIVITY AND THEY CAN MOVE THESE INDIVIDUALS. IF THEY'RE

APPROACHING THE -- THE LOCATION -- IF THEY'RE COMING UP WITH THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

LOCATION, WOULD THEY HAVE TO STOP, OBTAIN A WARRANT BEFORE THEY COULD

GO IN FURTHER FOR THE LOCATION TO AVOID MOVEMENT OF THAT PARTICULAR

VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING?

MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, WHEN A LAW ENFORCEMENT

AGENCY OR OFFICE OBTAINS ELECTRONIC INFORMATION PURSUANT TO AN

EMERGENCY, IF THERE'S A DANGER OF DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY TO A PERSON,

THERE MIGHT BE A NEED TO REQUIRE -- TO GET INFORMATION WITHOUT SERIOUS

DELAY, BUT YOU STILL AFTER THE FACT HAVE TO GET A WARRANT, LIKE IN THREE

DAYS.

MR. MORINELLO: BUT, I APPRECIATE THAT ANSWER

BECAUSE IT DOES TALK ABOUT HEALTH OR INJURY TO ANOTHER PERSON, WHICH

COULD HAPPEN, SO I APPRECIATE THAT IN THERE. AND THAT SAME

CONSIDERATION IS FOR CHILD PONOGRAPHY, WHICH CAN BE REMOTELY DELETED

FROM A PHONE OR A COMPUTER WITH TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY. SO COULD THAT

CONSTITUTE AN EMERGENCY SITUATION?

MR. DINOWITZ: YES.

MR. MORINELLO: TO -- TO AVOID THE -- THE DELETION

OF EVIDENCE AND, LIKE, I'M GOING TO FOCUS MORE ON CHILD PONOGRAPHY,

BECAUSE THAT'S -- IT'S USUALLY IN THAT COMPUTER THAT THE CHILD PONOGRAPHY

IS --

MR. DINOWITZ: I MEAN -- I MEAN I DON'T KNOW

HOW YOU DELETE SOMETHING REMOTELY, BUT DON'T GO BY ME.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY.

MR. DINOWITZ: BUT, I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

SOMETHING LIKE A DANGER OF DEATH OR INJURY IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE FOCUSED

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ON.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. THANK YOU.

ON THE BILL.

MR. DINOWITZ: THANK YOU.

MR. MORINELLO: I WILL START OUT WITH I DO SUPPORT

THIS BILL. I THINK IT'S A GOOD BILL IN THIS DAY AND AGE. I DO BELIEVE THAT

THERE SHOULD BE AN OPENNESS AND AN OPEN MIND AS WE PROCEED WITH

TECHNOLOGY THAT THERE MAY BE NEED FOR ADJUSTMENTS TO THIS BILL, BUT I

THINK THAT IT'S -- IT'S TIMELY, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THE FIFTH YEAR IT'S UP HERE --

TIMELY BECAUSE OF THE ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE, ELECTRONIC ABILITY. AND

WITH THAT BEING SAID AND TO PROTECT THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT OF PRIVACY

AND THE NEED FOR SEARCH WARRANT SIMILAR TO OTHER CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, I DO

SUPPORT THIS BILL. I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. MOLITOR.

MR. MOLITOR: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. DINOWITZ: YUP.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MOLITOR: THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR -- MR.

DINOWITZ.

MR. DINOWITZ: YOUR MIC MIGHT BE A LITTLE --

MR. MOLITOR: IS IT ON LOUD ENOUGH?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. DINOWITZ: OR MAYBE IT'S JUST --

MR. MOLITOR: SPEAK A LITTLE LOUDER? IS THAT

BETTER?

MR. DINOWITZ: A LITTLE LOUDER IS BETTER.

MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. GREAT.

MR. DINOWITZ: BUT NOT TOO LOUD.

MR. MOLITOR: MR. DINOWITZ, I'D LIKE TO START --

I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU ABOUT SECTION 695.15, WHICH IS

ON PAGE 5.

MR. DINOWITZ: OKAY. LET ME JUST TURN TO THAT.

(PAUSE)

OKAY.

MR. MOLITOR: SO UNDER SUBSECTION (1) THERE, THIS

SECTION WOULD REQUIRE THE POLICE TO DELIVER TO A SUSPECT THE -- THE

SEARCH WARRANT MATERIALS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN A REGULAR, YOU

KNOW, SEARCH WARRANT FOR A DOCUMENTATION.

MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. SO IN THAT -- IN SUBSECTION

(1), IT DOESN'T SAY SUSPECT, RIGHT? IT SAYS TARGET. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH

ME THAT A SUSPECT IS A TARGET OR TARGET COULD BE A SUSPECT; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, LET ME THINK ABOUT THAT. A

SUSPECT IS A... I GUESS, PROBABLY, YEAH, WHY NOT.

MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. AND ISN'T -- ISN'T THIS A LITTLE

BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE CURRENT WARRANT REQUIREMENTS THAT NEW YORK

STATE IS -- IS UNDER RIGHT NOW? AND LET ME JUST GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE,

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

RIGHT? IF THE POLICE EXECUTE -- POLICE GET A SEARCH WARRANT BY -- FROM A

JUDGE AND THEY GO AND THEY EXECUTE THAT SEARCH WARRANT LET'S SAY FOR

PHYSICAL ITEMS WITHIN A HOUSE, LET'S SAY DRUGS, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY WOULD

SECURE THOSE ITEMS, RIGHT, IF THEY FOUND THEM INSIDE THE HOUSE, AND THEN

THEY WOULD KEEP THEM. THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO PROVIDE SAMPLES OR

COPIES OF THOSE MATERIALS TO THE SUSPECT; ISN'T THAT TRUE?

MR. DINOWITZ: I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER

TO THAT, BUT PROBABLY. YOU'RE -- YOU'RE SAYING THEY DON'T HAVE TO

PROVIDE COPIES OF THAT WHICH THEY TAKE.

MR. MOLITOR: RIGHT. LIKE UNDER -- UNDER THIS

PIECE OF LEGISLATION, SPECIFICALLY UNDER SUBSECTION (1), IT REQUIRES LAW

ENFORCEMENT TO PROVIDE A COPY OF THE MATERIAL THAT THEY'VE OBTAINED

PURSUANT TO A WARRANT TO THE SUSPECT, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN ALMOST

EVERY OTHER SEARCH WARRANT THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS IN NEW YORK STATE

TODAY.

MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, BUT UNDER THIS SECTION

695.15, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN EMERGENCY SITUATION. IT'S A LITTLE BIT

DIFFERENT THAN YOUR RUN OF THE MILL EVERYDAY REGULAR WARRANT.

MR. MOLITOR: BUT IF THERE'S A -- OKAY, I

UNDERSTAND, BUT IF THERE'S AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, THAT EMERGENCY

SITUATION IS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO OBTAIN THAT MATERIAL, RIGHT? IT'S NOT

AN EMERGENCY TO THE SUSPECT. IT'S AN EMERGENCY FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT.

MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, IT'S AN EMERGENCY IF THERE'S A

POSSIBILITY OF DEATH OR INJURY.

MR. MOLITOR: RIGHT. THE POLICE HAVE AN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

EMERGENCY SITUATION, THEY NEED TO OBTAIN A SEARCH WARRANT AND THEY CAN

DO SO UNDER THIS PARTICULAR SUBSECTION OF THE LAW; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. DINOWITZ: OKAY. YEAH.

MR. MOLITOR: BUT, BUT THE POLICE THEN ONCE THEY

OBTAIN THAT ELECTRONIC MATERIAL, THEY WOULD HAVE TO TURN IT OVER TO THE

SUSPECT WITHIN SO MANY DAYS AFTER -- AFTER GETTING IT, SOMETHING THEY

DON'T DO CURRENTLY FOR ANY OTHER TYPE OF EVIDENCE.

MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S AN

EMERGENCY, AND SECOND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ELECTRONICS. I'M NOT SURE I

-- I'M NOT SURE I'M GETTING THE POINT AS TO WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

(PAUSE)

MR. DINOWITZ: YEAH, I MEAN IT SAYS, THE TARGET OF

THE WARRANT IS ENTITLED TO REQUEST A COPY OF THE ELECTRONIC INFORMATION

OBTAINED IN THE SAME FORM IT WAS RECEIVED UPON REQUEST. IS THAT -- I

DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A PROBLEM. WHY WOULD THAT BE A PROBLEM?

MR. MOLITOR: LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. LET'S

SAY THE POLICE WERE INVESTIGATING SOMEBODY WHO PRODUCED AND SAVED

LARGE QUANTITIES OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY. AND THEY GOT A SEARCH WARRANT

FOR THAT MATERIAL. AND THEY GOT ALL THAT INFORMATION ON MAYBE MULTIPLE

DISKS. ACCORDING TO THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED

TO TURN OVER THOSE VIDEOS, THOSE PICTURES BACK TO THE TARGET THEY'RE

INVESTIGATING.

MR. DINOWITZ: IN THIS EMERGENCY SITUATION.

MR. MOLITOR: SO IT'S OKAY FOR THEM TO DO THAT IF

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

IT'S AN EMERGENCY.

MR. DINOWITZ: IT SAYS IN THE LEGISLATION, THE TARGET

OF THE WARRANT IS ENTITLED TO REQUEST A COPY OF THE ELECTRONIC

INFORMATION OBTAINED IN THE SAME FORM IT WAS RECEIVED UPON REQUEST.

MR. MOLITOR: NOW, MR. DINOWITZ, IN THAT

EMERGENCY SITUATION IF THE POLICE DON'T HAVE THE IDENTITY OF THE TARGET,

THIS WOULD BE -- I'M SORRY, THIS WOULD BE UNDER SUBSECTION (3) OF THAT

PARTICULAR SECTION GOING ON NOW TO PAGE 6. UNDER THAT PARTICULAR

SECTION, IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE IDENTITY OF THE TARGET AND THEY OBTAIN THIS

ELECTRONIC MATERIAL, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE ALL OF THAT INFORMATION

THAT THEY OBTAINED PURSUANT TO THE WARRANT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S

OFFICE; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. DINOWITZ: IF THERE IS NO IDENTIFIED TARGET OF

THE WARRANT OR EMERGENCY REQUEST AT THE TIME OF THE ISSUANCE, LAW

ENFORCEMENT SHALL SUBMIT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF NEW

YORK WITHIN THREE DAYS OF THE EXECUTION OF THE WARRANT OR ISSUANCE OF

THE REQUEST A REPORT REGARDING THE INFORMATION REQUIRED.

MR. MOLITOR: AND THAT SECTION SPECIFICALLY

DESCRIBES THE REPORT, WHICH IS THE INFORMATION THAT EXISTS IN SUBSECTION

(2)C. ACTUALLY IF YOU GO BACK TO PAGE 5, IT INCLUDES ALL OF THE

INFORMATION INCLUDING A COPY OF THE ELECTRONIC INFORMATION OBTAINED AS

A RESULT OF THE SEARCH WARRANT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

MR. DINOWITZ: THAT'S WHAT THE BILL SAYS, YES.

MR. MOLITOR: AND THEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

WITHIN SO MANY DAYS IS REQUIRED TO PUBLISH THAT PUBLICLY ON THEIR

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

WEBSITE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

MR. DINOWITZ: THEY'RE REQUIRED TO PUBLISH A

REPORT.

MR. MOLITOR: BUT THE REPORT IS DESCRIBED IN 2(C)

TO CONTAIN THE INFORMATION THAT THEY RECEIVED PURSUANT TO THE SEARCH

WARRANT.

MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, THEY CAN PUBLISH ON THEIR

WEBSITE A DESCRIPTION WITHOUT -- I MEAN IF YOU'RE ASKING ARE THEY

REQUIRED TO PUBLISH PORNOGRAPHIC PHOTOS OF, YOU KNOW, CHILDREN OR

SOMETHING, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO DO THAT.

MR. MOLITOR: SO WHAT SHOULD -- WHAT'S THE REPORT

SUPPOSED TO BE THEN IF IT'S NOT THE INFORMATION THAT IS DESCRIBED IN THIS

LAW UNDER SUBSECTION (2)C?

MR. DINOWITZ: THE REPORT CAN CONTAIN

INFORMATION DESCRIBING AS OPPOSED TO SHOWING WHAT THEY HAVE.

MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. NOW, UNDER THAT SECTION, IT

ALSO PERMITS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE TO REDACT CERTAIN

INFORMATION; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

MR. DINOWITZ: YES.

MR. MOLITOR: AND THAT INFORMATION IS WHAT?

MR. DINOWITZ: I THINK VERY SPECIFIC PERSONAL

INFORMATION ON PEOPLE. CERTAINLY NOT -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PUBLISH AN

INAPPROPRIATE PHOTOGRAPH, FOR EXAMPLE,

MR. MOLITOR: COULD -- WOULD IT PERMIT THE

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE TO REDACT INFORMATION THAT MIGHT BE SENSITIVE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

TO AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION?

MR. DINOWITZ: IT -- THEY -- THEY -- THEY -- NEED TO

REDACT NAMES AND OTHER PERSONAL IDENTIFYING INFORMATION FROM THE

REPORTS.

MR. MOLITOR: THAT DEFINITION DOESN'T INCLUDE

MAYBE SPECIFICS ABOUT THE ACTUAL INVESTIGATION, DOES IT?

MR. DINOWITZ: NO. I DON'T SEE THAT.

MR. MOLITOR: IF I COULD JUST GO TO 695.20, STILL ON

PAGE 6 THERE. SUBSECTION (2) PERMITS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO

COMMENCE A CIVIL SUIT AGAINST LAW ENFORCEMENT IF THEY FAIL TO COMPLY

WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THIS ARTICLE; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. DINOWITZ: YES. AS LONG AS IT'S NOT

INCONSISTENT WITH WHAT THE REST OF THE THING SAYS. THE ATTORNEY

GENERAL, THEY CAN COMMENCE A CIVIL ACTION AND THEY CAN COMPEL LAW

ENFORCEMENT TO COMPLY, BUT THIS DOESN'T PRECLUDE ACTION BY AN

INDIVIDUAL SERVICE PROVIDER OR OTHER RECIPIENT OF A WARRANT, ORDER OR

OTHER LEGAL PROCESS THAT IS INCONSISTENT WITH THIS ARTICLE. BUT YES, THEY

CAN COMMENCE A CIVIL ACTION.

MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. AND THAT SECOND PART THAT

YOU -- THAT YOU REFERENCED IS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN SUBSECTION (3), JUST

BELOW THAT PARAGRAPH, THAT INDICATES THAT AN INDIVIDUAL MAY PETITION THE

COURT TO HAVE THE WARRANT QUASHED AND TO HAVE INFORMATION, THE

ELECTRONIC INFORMATION DESTROYED; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. DINOWITZ: THEY CAN TRY TO QUASH THE WARRANT

OR MODIFY THE WARRANT. THEY CAN TRY TO GET AN ORDER DESTROYING THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

INFORMATION THAT'S SOUGHT PURSUANT TO SUCH A WARRANT OR A LEGAL PROCESS

ON THE BASIS THAT THE WARRANT OR ORDER VIOLATES THE UNITED STATES

CONSTITUTION, AS WELL AS THE STATE CONSTITUTION.

MR. MOLITOR: AND THEY CAN --

MR. DINOWITZ: AND IT DOESN'T MEAN --

MR. MOLITOR: OH, SORRY.

MR. DINOWITZ: -- IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THAT REQUEST

WOULD BE GRANTED, OF COURSE.

MR. MOLITOR: OF COURSE, BUT THAT COULD OCCUR

ESSENTIALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF A LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATION, COULDN'T

IT?

MR. DINOWITZ: WHEN ELSE WOULD IT OCCUR?

MR. MOLITOR: WELL, I MEAN A LOT OF EVIDENCE --

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, USUALLY THE REMEDY IN NEW YORK FOR

ALMOST EVERY OTHER TYPE OF ACTION IF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT DOES

SOMETHING INCORRECT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SUPPRESSION OF EVIDENCE.

IN FACT, THIS IS THE FIRST I'VE EVER HEARD OF A SUSPECT IN A CRIMINAL

INVESTIGATION BEING PERMITTED TO QUASH A WARRANT. I'M NOT AWARE OF

THAT IN ANY OTHER AREA OF LAW, IN ANY OTHER STATE IN OUR ENTIRE COUNTRY.

ARE YOU AWARE OF THAT?

MR. DINOWITZ: IF THAT WERE THE CASE, I GUESS

MAYBE THERE'S ALWAYS A FIRST TIME FOR EVERYTHING, BUT WHAT WOULD BE

WRONG WITH THAT ANYWAY?

MR. MOLITOR: WELL, LET'S SAY THE POLICE WERE

INVESTIGATING A SERIAL KILLER AND THEY NEEDED INFORMATION QUICKLY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

BECAUSE THERE WAS A SERIOUS PUBLIC SAFETY RISK, BUT INSTEAD OF GOING OUT

AND GETTING FURTHER INFORMATION PURSUANT TO MAYBE MULTIPLE SEARCH

WARRANTS, THEY'RE INSTEAD FIGHTING A LEGAL BATTLE IN COURT BECAUSE THE

SUSPECT OF THE INVESTIGATION IS TRYING TO QUASH THEIR WARRANT. IN FACT,

THIS ALLOWS -- THIS ALLOWS THAT SUSPECT TO TAKE AN APPEAL ON THAT

DECISION ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, WHICH COULD FURTHER DELAY THE CRIMINAL

INVESTIGATION, COULDN'T IT?

MR. DINOWITZ: I'M -- I'M SURE THAT OUR LAW

ENFORCEMENT IS CAPABLE OF DEALING WITH TWO THINGS SIMULTANEOUSLY.

MR. MOLITOR: THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MOLITOR: THANK YOU, NEW MADAM SPEAKER.

I -- I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE, MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES

HERE THAT WE SHOULD PROTECT ELECTRONIC INFORMATION. I WAS A PROSECUTOR

FOR A LONG TIME. AND IN NEW YORK STATE WE -- OUR -- OUR APPEALS

COURTS HAVE ALREADY PROTECTED ELECTRONIC INFORMATION IN THE WAY THAT

MOST OF THIS BILL ALREADY PROPOSES. YOU KNOW, NEW YORK HAS SOME OF

THE MOST RESTRICTIVE APPLICATIONS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE NATION AND

FOR GOOD REASON WE FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO PROTECT

INDIVIDUALS' RIGHTS, THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND WE SHOULD DO THAT.

AND THE AIM OF THIS BILL IS A LAUDABLE ONE. BUT AS I POINTED OUT IN THIS

DEBATE, THIS BILL HAS SERIOUS, MAYBE UNINTENDED OR INTENDED

CONSEQUENCES THAT ARE GOING TO FRUSTRATE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS.

ELECTRONIC INFORMATION IS THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

WE HAVE IN OUR COUNTRY AND IT SHOULD BE PROTECTED THE SAME WAY. THIS

CREATES A STANDARD THAT I DON'T THINK LAW ENFORCEMENT WILL BE ABLE TO

COMPLY WITH, AND THE RISK IS GOING TO BE TO YOU AND ME, TO OUR FAMILIES

AND OUR COMMUNITIES.

SO I'M ASKING YOU TO VOTE NO ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION, MAYBE IT COULD COME BACK IN AN AMENDED FORM AND WE CAN

DEAL WITH IT THEN. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: THANK YOU.

MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. DINOWITZ: YES, I WILL.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: THE SPONSOR

YIELDS.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. DINOWITZ. I JUST HAD A

QUESTION, IF YOU CAN CLARIFY, THE LAST PIECE OF THIS IF THERE'S SOME

REPORTING REQUIREMENTS BOTH FROM I THINK THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE

AND THEN AS WELL AS I BELIEVE LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, CORRECT?

MR. DINOWITZ: YOU'RE ASKING ME IF YOU HAVE TO

HAVE REPORTING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE AG AND TO LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT?

MR. RA: THE -- THE REPORTING REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT

THAT WOULD DETAIL WHEN THIS PROCEDURE HAS BEEN USED. I'M LOOKING AT

THE TOP OF PAGE 7.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. DINOWITZ: OKAY. LET ME JUST CHECK.

(PAUSE)

THERE'S A REPORTING REQUIREMENT FOR THE ATTORNEY

GENERAL IN THESE SPECIFIC SITUATIONS.

MR. RA: YES, IN SECTION 2, BUT THE FIRST ONE SAYS, A

LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT OBTAINS

ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION INFORMATION PURSUANT TO THIS ARTICLE SHALL

MAKE AN ANNUAL REPORT. SO THAT WOULD A LOCAL DEPARTMENT. WELL, I

GUESS MAYBE A DA'S OFFICE OR...

MR. DINOWITZ: YEAH. I MEAN LAW ENFORCEMENT

AGENCY OR OFFICER.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO HERE'S -- HERE'S MY QUESTION. SO

AN AGENCY, RIGHT, IS AN ENTITY AND THEY MAY HAVE ANY NUMBER OF

INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE BEEN MAKING THESE REQUESTS. BUT THEN IT SAYS, OR

LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. ARE WE EXPECTING AN INDIVIDUAL LAW

ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TO MAKE AN ANNUAL REPORT?

MR. DINOWITZ: IF PERHAPS THEY'RE THE ONLY LAW

ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN THAT PLACE, BUT I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE

AGENCY ITSELF.

MR. RA: WELL, MY -- YOU LOOK A LITTLE PUZZLED WITH

MY QUESTION, BUT IT SAYS --

MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I'M PUZZLED BECAUSE --

MR. RA: -- A PUBLIC AGENCY OR LAW ENFORCEMENT

OFFICER THAT OBTAINS AN ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION.

MR. DINOWITZ: IN NEW YORK, EACH POLICE OFFICER

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

DOES NOT ISSUE AN ANNUAL REPORT ON ANYTHING, AS FAR AS I KNOW. BUT THE

NYPD MIGHT ISSUE --

MR. RA: SURE.

MR. DINOWITZ: -- AN ANNUAL REPORT.

MR. RA: SO IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT YOUR INTENTION TO PUT

THE BURDEN ON EACH INDIVIDUAL OFFICER WHO HAS UTILIZED THIS, RATHER THE

AGENCY THAT THEY WORK FOR, CORRECT?

MR. DINOWITZ: IT'S NOT MY INTENTION, THAT'S

CORRECT.

MR. RA: OKAY. THANK YOU.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. RA: THANK YOU. AS -- AS MY COLLEAGUE SAID,

YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE THE INTENTION OF THIS AND THIS IS AN EVOLVING

AREA, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, CASE LAW ON IT, PROCEDURES THAT ARE FOLLOWED,

BUT AS WE TALK ABOUT, RIGHT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT EVEN WITHIN THIS

BUDGET PROCESS WHAT A ESSENTIAL PIECE OF OUR LIVES OUR ELECTRONIC

DEVICES ARE. AND, YOU KNOW, MY -- MY CONCERN IS THERE IS SITUATIONS

WHERE LAW ENFORCEMENT NEEDS TO -- SAY THEY'RE INVESTIGATING A CRIME AS

WAS -- AS WAS MENTIONED, THERE IS DATA YOU CAN GET FROM THESE DEVICES

THAT ACTUALLY WILL HELP FIGURE OUT WHO THEY MIGHT NEED TO BE LOOKING AT

AS A POTENTIAL SUSPECT. YOU KNOW THEY CAN FIND OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, A

CRIME WAS COMMITTED AND FIND WHO MAY HAVE BEEN IN THAT AREA BY

THEIR CELL PHONE BEING PRESENT IN -- IN THAT AREA. SO THEY WOULDN'T BE IN

A POSITION AT THAT POINT TO -- TO BE, YOU KNOW, HAVING A REASONABLE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

SUSPICION OF -- OF A CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL, BUT RATHER A GENERAL CONCERN THAT

LET'S FIND OUT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A MURDER THAT HAPPENED AT THIS

LOCATION, LET'S FIND OUT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS 2:00 IN THE MORNING AND, YOU

KNOW, THEY GO TO A CARRIER AND MAYBE FIND OUT THAT THERE'S A HANDFUL OF

PEOPLE AND, YOU KNOW, NOW YOU CAN START TO MAKE YOUR INVESTIGATION

AND THEN OBVIOUSLY ONCE YOU HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION, YEAH, YOU'RE

GOING TO GO FOR A WARRANT TO GET THE SPECIFIC INFORMATION FROM AN

INDIVIDUAL'S PHONE. SO I'M WORRIED THAT THIS COULD FRUSTRATE THAT

PURPOSE. I DO APPRECIATE THE CLARIFICATION WITH REGARD TO THE REPORTING,

BECAUSE I CERTAINLY DON'T THINK WE WOULD WANT TO PUT THE BURDEN ON

EACH INDIVIDUAL TO HAVE TO REPORT TO THE STATE WHEN THEY'RE UTILIZING

THESE PROCEDURES. SO I DO THINK THIS BILL NEEDS A LITTLE MORE WORK

BEFORE IT GETS ENACTED. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: THANK YOU, MR.

RA.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION, BUT THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE AFFIRMATIVELY MAY DO SO RIGHT

NOW AT THEIR SEATS. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: MR. BENEDETTO.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. BENEDETTO: THE MAJORITY WILL BE, GENERALLY,

IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL. IF THERE'S ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO VOTE DIFFERENTLY,

THEY WOULD CERTAINLY BE ASKED TO DO SO IF THEY WANT.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE

THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS).

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 5, CALENDAR NO. 1, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00565, CALENDAR NO.

1, PAULIN, SIMON, SEAWRIGHT, HEVESI, ROSENTHAL, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS,

KELLES, SAYEGH, OTIS, SHIMSKY, KIM, RAGA, SIMONE, TAPIA, LEVENBERG,

BRABENEC, MAHER, GRIFFIN, COLTON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH

LAW, IN RELATION TO THE ESTABLISHMENT, INCORPORATION, CONSTRUCTION, OR

INCREASE IN CAPACITY OF FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: AN EXPLANATION

HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. PAULIN.

MS. PAULIN: NO. I THINK YOU GUYS HAVE TO DO

SOMETHING. THERE WE GO. OKAY. YES. THANK YOU.

THE BILL WOULD PROHIBIT THE ESTABLISHMENT IN

CORPORATION, CONSTRUCTION OR INCREASE IN THE CAPACITY OF FOR-PROFIT

HOSPICES IN NEW YORK STATE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: MR. JENSEN.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

MS. PAULIN: MAYBE. YES.

ACTING SPEAKER WOERNER: THE SPONSOR

YIELDS.

MR. JENSEN: TERRIFIC. IT'S LIKE D�J� VU ALL OVER

AGAIN, TWO DAYS IN A ROW, MS. PAULIN.

A PREVIOUS VERSION OF THIS BILL WAS VETOED IN 2022,

CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. JENSEN: IS THERE ANYTHING SUBSTANTIALLY

DIFFERENT IN THIS VERSION OF THE LEGISLATION THAN THE VETOED VERSION?

MS. PAULIN: SO I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE VETO

REFERENCED THE REPORT FROM THE TASK FORCE ON AGING.

MR. JENSEN: MM-HMM.

MS. PAULIN: AND THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WANTED TO

WAIT FOR THAT REPORT AND HANDLE IT POTENTIALLY IN THAT REPORT. THAT REPORT

IS NOW TWO MONTHS OLD OR OVERDUE, AND NOW WE HEAR RUMOR THAT IT

MIGHT COME OUT IN JUNE. SO ITS TIME HAS COME. WE KNOW IT'S THE RIGHT

THING TO DO. IF THIS BILL IS ALIGNED WITH THE REPORT, WHICH WE SUSPECT IT

WILL BE, THEN IT'LL BEFORE THE GOVERNOR, AND IF IT'S NOT, THEN SHE CAN VETO

IT AGAIN.

MR. JENSEN: WELL, WHY WOULDN'T WE WAIT IF WE

BELIEVE THAT THE MASTER PLAN FOR AGING, WHICH SOUNDS LIKE A WEIRD

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

THING INVOLVING MASTER PLANS, BUT IF THE MASTER PLAN FOR THE AGING --

FOR AGING IS IMMINENT AND IT WILL TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF HOSPICE CARE

AND PALLIATIVE CARE IN NEW YORK STATE, WHY WOULD WE NOT WAIT FOR THE

MASTER PLAN TO BE PUBLIC SO THAT ALL OF OUR COLLEAGUES KNOW WHAT'S IN IT

AS OPPOSED TO MOVING FORWARD WITH LEGISLATION THAT MAY CONTRADICT IT,

ESPECIALLY IF WE FORESEE ITS PUBLISHING WHILE WE ARE IN SESSION TO

POTENTIALLY TAKE ACTION?

MS. PAULIN: I -- I WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S LIMITED

INFORMATION THAT THAT MASTER PLAN AND THE PEOPLE ON IT WOULD HAVE THAT

WE DON'T HAVE TODAY. WE KNOW THAT ALL SURVEYS, ALL ANALYSIS FROM ALL

EXPERTS POINT TO THE FACT THAT FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE CARE IS MUCH -- IS MUCH

WEAKER, MUCH MORE POTENTIALLY HARMFUL TO OUR -- TO ANYBODY THAT THE

NURSING CARE IS LESS ADEQUATE, THE -- THE AMOUNT OF CARE, THE TYPE OF

CARE, ALL OF THAT IS LESS. WE -- THERE'S NOT -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE

DIFFERENT INFORMATION THAN THAT. THEY ALSO -- WE ALSO KNOW THAT IN

NEW YORK WE HAVE TWO FOR-PROFIT NURSING HOMES AND WE POTENTIALLY

WOULD WANT TO STOP MORE OF THEM.

MR. JENSEN: SO -- SO YOU MENTIONED THAT THE

EVIDENCE IS CLEAR, BUT HAS THERE BEEN A PUBLIC HEARING ON FOR-PROFIT OR

NOT-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE CARE IN NEW YORK WHERE WE'VE HAD EXPERT

WITNESS TESTIMONY ABOUT THE STATE OF THE TWO FOR-PROFIT PROVIDERS OF THIS

CARE IN NEW YORK? BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE EVIDENCE THAT'S BEING

PRESENTED OFTENTIMES IS FROM OTHER STATES WITH OTHER REGULATORY

PROCESSES. NOT NEW YORK-BASED PROVIDERS.

MS. PAULIN: SO, THESE NEW YORK PROVIDERS ARE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

OLD, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE. WHAT THIS LEGISLATION

IS ABOUT IS NOT ABOUT THEM. WE'RE GRANDFATHERING THEM. WE ARE

ALLOWING THEM TO CONTINUE TO EXIST. THERE HAS BEEN LIMITED FRAUD FOR

THOSE. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT A PUBLIC HEARING WOULD DO BECAUSE WE

KNOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN OKAY PLAYERS. BUT WHAT THIS LEGISLATION IS

ABOUT IS WE DON'T WANT TO SEE A PROLIFERATION OF FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE CARE

IN NEW YORK. THAT -- THE BILL IS ABOUT THE NEXT GROUP THAT'S COMING IN.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THESE TWO.

MR. JENSEN: SO, AND THE PREVIOUS SPONSOR OF THIS

LEGISLATION MADE THE SAME ARGUMENT IN 2022. HOW MANY FOR-PROFIT --

FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE PROVIDERS WERE IN THE STATE IN 2022?

MS. PAULIN: THE SAME NUMBER.

MR. JENSEN: RIGHT. SO WE'RE NOT SEEING A PROLIFIC

-- IT'S BEEN THREE YEARS, WE'RE NOT SEEING PROLIFIC INVASIONS OF EVIL FOR-

PROFIT HOSPICE OPERATORS. WE HAVE THE EXACT SAME NUMBER. AND WHILE

THESE TWO FACILITIES MAY BE GRANDFATHERED IN, WOULDN'T IT ALSO PROHIBIT

THEM FROM EXPANDING ON THE GOOD WORK THEY'RE DOING AND ADDING

CAPACITY TO A LEVEL OF CARE WITHIN THE CARE CONTINUUM THAT IS DEAD LAST

IN THE COUNTRY IN ACCESS?

MS. PAULIN: SO WHAT IT -- THERE'S ALL TYPES OF

HOSPICE CARE. FOR EXAMPLE, MY MOM WAS IN HOSPICE TWICE; ONCE WAS

AT HOME AND ONCE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL. THESE FOR-PROFIT PROVIDERS

WOULD NOT BE PROHIBITED FROM EXPANDING INTO THOSE AREAS WHICH ARE

THE GROWING AREAS OF HOSPICE IN NEW YORK. WHAT THEY'RE PROHIBITED

FROM DOING IS GROWING THE NUMBER OF BEDS. SO I WOULD ARGUE THEY'RE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

REALLY NOT LIMITED FROM EXPANDING IN THE WAY THAT HOSPICE IS EXPANDING

IN NEW YORK. THEY ARE LIMITED FROM GROWING THEIR FACILITIES.

MR. JENSEN: SO IN A STATE WHERE WE TALK ABOUT

HEALTHCARE DESERTS, WITH THE CURRENT NUMBER OF HOSPICE PROVIDERS IN

NEW YORK STATE, WHETHER THEY BE THE TWO FOR-PROFITS OR THE

NOT-FOR-PROFITS, I BELIEVE RIGHT NOW THE CURRENT NUMBER SAYS THAT THERE'S

ONE HOSPICE PROVIDER FOR EVERY HALF-MILLION NEW YORKERS. WHY WOULD

WE, AS THE LEGISLATURE, BE -- WANT TO ARTIFICIALLY LIMIT PEOPLE WHO WANT

TO COME IN AND PROVIDE CARE THAT IS UNDER-SERVING NEW YORKERS,

ESPECIALLY WHEN WE COULD ADD INSTEAD OF JUST FLAT-OUT BANNING THEM?

WE COULD PASS REGULATIONS OR LAW TO EXPECT DOH TO DO YEOMAN'S WORK

IN THE OVERSIGHT PART OF THESE FACILITIES JUST LIKE WE DO WITH HOSPITALS,

LONG-TERM CARE? WHY WOULDN'T WE LOOK AT THE OVERSIGHT RATHER THAN

JUST A FLAT-OUT BAN AND SAYING, WELL, THESE PROVIDERS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE

EVIL?

MS. PAULIN: SO I WOULD SAY A FEW THINGS: FIRST, IN

TERMS OF BEEFING UP THE OVERSIGHT, I DON'T KNOW -- YOU KNOW, SINCE I'VE

BEEN HEALTH CHAIR I'VE RECEIVED MANY MORE COMPLAINTS - PROBABLY

BECAUSE I AM HEALTH CHAIR - ABOUT FACILITIES THAT DOH HAS NOT DONE THE

WORK THAT THEY NEEDED TO DO TO KEEP THOSE FACILITIES ACCOUNTABLE. SO I

WOULD WORRY ABOUT INCREASING THAT LOAD --

MR. JENSEN: IS THAT -- IS THAT --

MS. PAULIN: -- AND INCREASING IT TO A GROUP OF NEW

FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE PROVIDERS THAT WE KNOW FROM SURVEYS DONE WHERE

THEY HAVE GROWN THAT THEY HAVE NOT DONE A GOOD JOB.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. JENSEN: SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW,

AS -- AS HEALTH CHAIR YOU'VE GOTTEN COMPLAINTS FROM PEOPLE ACROSS THE

STATE ABOUT FOR-PROFIT PROVIDERS, THE TWO THAT EXIST IN NEW YORK OR --

MS. PAULIN: NO. I'M SAYING OF ALL THE TYPES OF

FACILITIES THAT DOH IS EXPECTED TO (INAUDIBLE/CROSSTALK) NURSING HOMES,

ASSISTED LIVING.

MR. JENSEN: SO UNDER THAT LOGIC, THOUGH, AND --

AND CERTAINLY YOU'RE GETTING THOSE CALLS AS THE CHAIR OF THE HEALTH

COMMITTEE, I GET THOSE SAME CALLS AS THE RANKER OF THE HEALTH

COMMITTEE. AND I GET THOSE CALLS ABOUT FOR-PROFIT FACILITIES AND

NOT-FOR-PROFIT FACILITIES. SO UNDER THAT LOGIC WE SHOULD BE BANNING ALL

NEW HOSPICE CARE, ALL NEW PROVIDERS BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING COMPLAINTS

ABOUT THESE FACILITIES.

MS. PAULIN: NO. I WOULD JUST -- I WOULD SAY THAT

ON A FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE WE KNOW THAT THEY DON'T DO AS GOOD A JOB.

MR. JENSEN: HOW -- BUT -- BUT RESPECTFULLY --

MS. PAULIN: NEW ONES, NEW ONES. I -- I'M NOT

SUGGESTING THAT THE TWO THAT WE HAVE NOW ARE -- ARE NOT DOING A GOOD

JOB. I -- I DON'T KNOW THAT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT

THERE'S NO FRAUD AND THERE'S NO PROBLEMS BY THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE. SO I

BELIEVE THAT. AND SO, THEREFORE, I'M TALKING ABOUT PROHIBITING NEW

ONES FROM COMING IN WHEN WE KNOW THAT FOR-PROFIT ACROSS THE COUNTRY

HAVE BEEN PROBLEMATIC. I DON'T WANT TO BRING THOSE PROBLEMATIC

ENTITIES INTO OUR STATE.

MR. JENSEN: SO -- AND I JUST WANT TO (INAUDIBLE) --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

I HAVE TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR YOU AND THE RELATIONSHIP THAT WE'VE HAD

AS CHAIR AND RANKER OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS. BUT I DO FIND IT DIFFICULT

TO UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC THAT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE EVIDENCE FROM OTHER

STATES THAT MAY HAVE DIFFERENT OVERSIGHT LAWS FROM OUR OWN STATE AND

APPLY IT AS A BLANKET POLICY TO NEW YORK WHEN IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY

WEEK WE'RE PASSING LEGISLATION IN THIS CHAMBER REACTING THAT WE HAVE

TO BE DIFFERENT, WE HAVE TO TREAT OURSELVES DIFFERENTLY THAN EVERY OTHER

STATE AND WE CAN'T ALLOW OTHER STATES' EXPERIENCES OR THE WAY THEY DO

BUSINESS TO IMPACT US. AND SO WHEN WE SAY THAT WE'RE HEARING

EVIDENCE ABOUT -- THAT THESE ARE TERRIBLE PROVIDERS IN OTHER STATES, WE

HAVE NO EVIDENCE THAT IN NEW YORK THEY WOULD BE BAD PROVIDERS

BECAUSE THE ONES WHO ARE HERE AREN'T. THEY'RE TREMENDOUS PROVIDERS.

AND YOU'VE SAID THAT DOH AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HAVE BOTH SAID

THERE'S NO PROBLEM. AND WE'VE ALSO SEEN FROM DOH THAT THERE ARE NO

QUALMS ABOUT BRINGING IN LARGE FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES TO MANAGE CRITICAL

ASPECTS OF OUR MEDICAID BUDGET POPULATION. SO I JUST QUESTION WHETHER

OR NOT WHEN WE DO LACK SUCH CARE AND WE HAVE PEOPLE ACROSS THE STATE

IN NEED OF HOSPICE AND PALLIATIVE CARE, ARTIFICIALLY LIMITING WHO CAN

PROVIDE THE CARE.

MS. PAULIN: SO THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT'S HARD TO

MEASURE A FOR-PROFIT AGAINST A PROFIT FROM THE PERSON WHOSE LOVED ONE

IS THERE. THE COMPARISONS THAT THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO, THE SURVEYS

THAT HAVE ABLE TO BE CONDUCTED BY -- YOU KNOW, BY THE -- YOU KNOW, BY

THE ASSOCIATION OF -- WHERE IS IT -- BY THE AMA SHOW THAT THEY PROVIDE

FEWER NURSING VISITS, USE LESS-SKILLED STAFF. THOSE ARE MEASUREMENTS

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

THAT WERE DONE BY INDEPENDENT SOURCES. SO IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE IN A

FOR-PROFIT AND THERE'S NO FRAUD, THAT'S WHAT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WILL

KNOW. THEY DON'T KNOW, THEY DON'T DO A COMPARISON LIKE THIS

COMPARISON. SO -- AND THEY JUST CERTAINLY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO A

COMPARISON OF AN ENTITY THAT'S COMING IN. AGAIN, THIS IS ABOUT

PROHIBITING ENTITIES COMING IN.

MR. JENSEN: WELL, WOULDN'T -- BUT DOESN'T --

DOESN'T THE DOH HAVE TO SIGN OFF ON A CERTIFICATE OF NEED FOR ANY NEW

HEALTHCARE PROVIDER, HOSPICE INCLUDED? SO WHEN WE HAVE NO

ALLEGATIONS OF FRAUD OR ABUSE FROM EXISTING FOR-PROFIT PROVIDERS WHO

ARE IN NEW YORK, WOULDN'T DOH HAVE TO DO A THOROUGH INVESTIGATION

OF ANY HEALTHCARE PROVIDER, WHETHER THEY BE FOR-PROFIT OR NOT-FOR-PROFIT,

BEFORE LICENSING THEM TO ADMINISTER CARE IN WHATEVER WAY, SHAPE OR

FORM IN NEW YORK? WOULDN'T THEY -- WOULDN'T WE WANT THE D --

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO USE THE POWERS THEY HAVE TO DETERMINE

WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A GOOD ACTOR IN THE FIELD? AND DON'T THEY ALREADY

HAVE THAT POWER?

MS. PAULIN: THEY HAVE THAT POWER EXCEPT THERE'S A

RANGE. ALL FACILITIES, NURSING HOMES, ASSISTED LIVING, HOSPICE CARE,

HOSPITALS, WE KNOW THERE'S A RANGE. WE KNOW THERE'S A RANGE IN CARE.

WE KNOW THERE'S AN ALLOWANCE OR A -- A -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S A -- THERE'S

A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AND AMONG ALL OF THESE FACILITIES TO EACH OTHER.

YOU KNOW -- YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, HOSPITALS IN MY AREA,

SOME OF THEM PEOPLE -- YOU KNOW, I -- I WON'T SAY WHERE, BUT I

DISLOCATED MY SHOULDER AND I SAID TO THE AMBULANCE GUY, I DON'T WANT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

TO GO THERE, I WANT TO GO THERE. I THINK WE ALL HAVE THAT.

MR. JENSEN: SMART DECISION NOT SAYING WHERE YOU

DIDN'T WANT TO GO.

MS. PAULIN: NO. SO I THINK THAT WE HAVE THAT

EXPERIENCE. SO THERE'S ALWAYS A RANGE, AND THE RANGE IS BETTER

UNIFORMLY IN NOT-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE THAN IT IS IN FOR-PROFIT. SO I WANT

THAT TOP RANGE TO BE IN THE FACILITIES THAT ARE COMING INTO NEW YORK.

OUR HOPE IS THAT WE CAN IMPROVE THE NUMBER OF FACILITIES THAT ARE IN

NEW YORK AND MAKE THAT MUCH MORE AVAILABLE TO FOLKS.

MR. JENSEN: AND -- AND THAT'S -- THANK YOU.

MS. PAULIN: AND I WANT THEM TO BE GOOD.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. JENSEN: AND I -- CERTAINLY, I UNDERSTAND THAT

WE WANT TO ALLOW FOR NEW YORKERS TO HAVE THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE LEVEL

OF CARE. BUT WHEN WE HAVE FOR-PROFIT PROVIDERS IN NEW YORK WHO ARE

ALREADY PROVIDING HIGH LEVELS OF CARE IN THE HOSPICE AND PALLIATIVE CARE

AND WE ARE 50TH IN THE COUNTRY OF HOSPICE AND PALLIATIVE CARE ACCESS, IT

IS MISGUIDED TO ARTIFICIALLY BAN PROVIDERS WHO MAY WANT TO COME INTO

THE STATE WITH NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY WOULD BE BAD ACTORS. THE

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH DOES HAVE OVERSIGHT PREROGATIVES ON GRANTING

ANYBODY THE ABILITY TO PRACTICE IN NEW YORK. IF WE HAVE TRUST IN THE

HEALTH DEPARTMENT, THEN WE SHOULD ALLOW THEM TO FULFILL THAT DUTY AND

NOT DISCRIMINATE BASED ON WHETHER THEY'RE FOR-PROFIT OR NOT-FOR-PROFIT.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

BUT WHEN WE ARE SEVERELY LACKING IN ACCESS AND WE SEVERELY

UNDERFUND HOSPICE AND PALLIATIVE CARE PROVIDERS, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING

AT ANY AND ALL OPPORTUNITIES TO ALLOW NEW YORKERS WHO WANT ACCESS TO

THIS CARE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THIS CARE.

AND I APPRECIATE THE TIME, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. RA: WHAT DOES IT ENTAIL FOR A NEW PROVIDER TO

COME INTO THIS SPACE? I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND -- AND BECOME A LICENSED FACILITY. WHAT

DOES THAT ENTAIL FOR, SAY, RIGHT NOW WITHOUT THIS BILL IF A NEW FOR-PROFIT

ENTITY WANTED TO OPEN A HOSPICE?

MS. PAULIN: SO, A CERTIFICATE OF NEED IS VERY

CUMBERSOME, BUT THAT'S THE PROCESS. CERTIFICATE OF NEED.

MR. RA: SO, RIGHT, WE HAVE A PROCESS THAT'S OVERSEEN

BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH. THEY DETERMINE THAT THIS COMMUNITY

NEEDS THESE SERVICES, RIGHT? SO DO WE HAVE ANY DATA OR STATISTICS IN

TERMS OF HOW MANY NOT-FOR-PROFIT -- ARE THERE A LOT OF NOT-FOR-PROFITS

TRYING TO OPEN IN THIS AREA? AGAIN, LIKE MR. JENSEN WAS TALKING ABOUT,

THE CONCERN HERE IS ACCESS TO THIS TYPE OF CARE WHICH WE KNOW IS A

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

PROBLEM. SO IS -- IS THIS GROWING IN NEW YORK STATE? ARE THERE A LOT

OF NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES TRYING TO GET INTO THIS, OR IS THERE A PROBLEM

THAT BECAUSE OF FUNDING AND ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS THAT THEY'RE

HAVING TROUBLE MAKING IT WORK?

MS. PAULIN: SO THE -- I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY HAVE

TROUBLE MAKING IT WORK. I THINK THAT WHERE THERE IS HOSPICE CARE IT'S

VERY WELL-RECEIVED AND APPRECIATED. I KNOW THAT I DID WHEN I USED IT

FOR MY OWN FAMILY MEMBER. HOWEVER, IT IS NOT AS AVAILABLE, AND PART

OF THAT IS THE PROVIDERS ARE NOT EDUCATING THE FAMILIES TO THE DEGREE THAT

THEY SHOULD. I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S REALLY ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTAL REASONS

WHY HOSPICE CARE IN NEW YORK ISN'T AS -- IT ISN'T USED AS MUCH AS IT IS

IN OTHER STATES, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO FOCUS. IF WE DO THAT

AND THEN HOSPICE CARE DOES GROW AND FACILITIES ARE NEEDED, THEN I

WOULD WANT NOT-FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE TO FILL THAT VOID, NOT-FOR-PROFIT

HOSPICE.

MR. RA: OKAY. I -- I GUESS MY -- MY LAST QUESTION IS

A VERY GENERAL ONE. WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DOES THIS BILL DO TO INCREASE

ACCESS TO THOSE TYPES OF SERVICES?

MS. PAULIN: IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING TO INCREASE

ACCESS, IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING TO DECREASE ACCESS. IT JUST SAYS THAT IF

THERE ARE NEW FACILITIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE GIVEN A C-O-N, THEY

SHOULD BE NOT-FOR-PROFIT.

MR. RA: OKAY. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. DURSO.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WOULD

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MA'AM. SO, JUST TRYING TO

HEAR THE DEBATE AND UNDERSTAND. YOU DO FEEL THAT WE HAVE A NEED FOR

MORE HOSPICE PROVIDERS IN NEW YORK STATE, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. DURSO: SO IS THERE ENTITIES THAT ARE FOR-PROFIT

HOSPICE PROVIDERS THAT ARE TRYING TO GET THAT LICENSE IN NEW YORK

STATE?

MS. PAULIN: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

MR. DURSO: IS THERE ANY MORE NOT-FOR-PROFIT

HOSPITAL PROVIDERS THAT ARE TRYING TO BECOME PROVIDERS IN NEW YORK

STATE AT THIS TIME?

MS. PAULIN: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

MR. DURSO: BUT WE DO HAVE A LARGE AMOUNT OF

PEOPLE THAT NEED HOSPICE CARE BUT DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET IT

BECAUSE WE'RE SHORT ON HOSPICE PROVIDERS, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: YES. BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT THIS BILL

WILL HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THAT.

MR. DURSO: BUT IF WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF

PEOPLE THAT NEED HOSPICE CARE AND WE'RE LIMITING WHO CAN PROVIDE IT,

WOULDN'T THAT BE LIMITING THE ACCESS TO HOSPICE CARE FOR THOSE NEW

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

YORKERS THAT DO NEED IT?

MS. PAULIN: NOT NECESSARILY. YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S

AN AREA THAT WANTS TO HAVE A HOSPICE FACILITY OR -- OR, YOU KNOW, WANTS

TO GROW THEIR HOSPICE PROGRAM, TO REACH OUT TO A NEIGHBORING FACILITY OR

NEIGHBORING HOSPITALS OR NEIGHBORING TO DO HOME CARE, I DON'T THINK

THIS BILL WOULD HAVE ANY BEARING ON THAT.

MR. DURSO: WELL, IF THEY'RE A NEW HOSPICE FOR-

PROFIT PROVIDER, THIS BILL WOULD EXACTLY HAVE THAT ON IT, RIGHT? THEY --

THEY CAN'T COME INTO NEW YORK STATE TO PROVIDE THAT CARE.

MS. PAULIN: THAT'S CORRECT. AND IF THERE'S AN AREA,

AGAIN, THAT WANTS TO DO OR START A FACILITY THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE A

NOT-FOR-PROFIT.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. BUT -- BUT YOU'RE ALSO SAYING

THAT THERE'S NO NEW NOT-FOR-PROFITS THAT ARE --

MS. PAULIN: THERE MIGHT BE, I JUST DON'T KNOW.

MR. DURSO: WE -- WE DON'T KNOW. BUT WE ALSO

KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW FOR-PROFIT PROVIDERS TO COME IN. I

MEAN, LISTEN, I -- I -- I'M NOT A HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL, BUT

UNDERSTANDING THAT I'VE RECENTLY HAD FAMILY MEMBERS THAT WERE LOOKING

FOR HOSPICE CARE FOR THEIR AILING MOTHER AND COULDN'T GET IT. THEY WERE

ON A LIST AND IT TOOK UNFORTUNATELY MONTHS TO GET IT. I HAD SOMEONE

WHO HAD MY -- MY OWN MOTHER IN HOSPICE CARE. THANK GOD THEY WERE

THERE. THERE ARE MILLIONS OF NEW YORKERS THAT NEED IT, BUT WE DON'T

HAVE ENOUGH PROVIDERS, AND NOW WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ESSENTIALLY

SHRINKING WHO COULD COME IN AND GIVE THAT CARE, CORRECT?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MS. PAULIN: WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY SHRINKING IT,

BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, WE DON'T KNOW OF ANY THAT ARE -- YOU KNOW, MADE

AN APPLICATION TO THE -- TO DOH TO -- TO HAVE A, YOU KNOW, FACILITY. BUT

-- BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT ANY NEW PROVIDER WOULD HAVE TO BE

NOT-FOR-PROFIT. I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE SHRINKING ANYTHING. I THINK THAT

WE'RE ENCOURAGING AND ALLOWING NOT-FOR-PROFITS PERHAPS TO COMPETE IN

A -- IN A WAY THAT MAKES THEM -- IT -- IT ALLOWS THEM TO COME INTO NEW

YORK STATE KNOWING THAT A FOR-PROFIT IS NOT GOING TO PUT THEM OUT OF

BUSINESS, ISN'T GONNA TAKE THEM OVER, ISN'T GOING TO, YOU KNOW, DRIVE

CARE IN A NEGATIVE WAY. YOU KNOW, IT ALLOWS IT TO GROW IN THE MOST

HEALTHY WAY POSSIBLE, IF THAT'S THE RIGHT WORD, I DON'T KNOW.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO -- AND I, JUST LISTENING TO THE

DEBATE YOU SAID THERE'S TWO FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE PROVIDERS IN NEW YORK

STATE RIGHT NOW?

MS. PAULIN: YES.

MR. DURSO: DO WE KNOW HOW NOT-FOR-PROFIT

PROVIDERS THERE ARE?

MS. PAULIN: WE PROBABLY DO... 39.

MR. DURSO: THIRTY-NINE IN -- IN NEW YORK STATE.

AND ACCORDING TO THE NUMBERS THAT WERE SAID BEFORE, THERE'S ONE

HOSPICE PROVIDER FOR EVERY HALF-MILLION NEW YORKERS. SO IN YOUR

OPINION AS -- AS -- AS THE HEALTH CHAIR AND SOMEONE WHO IS -- WHO IS

EXPERIENCED IN THIS, WHY IS THERE MORE -- NOT MORE NOT-FOR-PROFITS

WANTING TO COME INTO NEW YORK STATE TO GIVE HOSPICE CARE?

MS. PAULIN: I THINK THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I THINK

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

THAT WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE HOSPICE CARE. IF YOU SPEAK WITH HOSPICE

PROVIDERS, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY TELL YOU IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE --

THE WAY THEY'RE GROWING IS TO PROVIDE -- TO EMPLOY PEOPLE TO PROVIDE

THAT CARE IN HOSPITALS AND AT HOME, WHICH AGAIN, WERE THE TWO SETTINGS

THAT I USED FOR MY MOM. BUT -- AND THAT THEY HAVE -- THEY'RE WAITING,

YOU KNOW, FOR PROVIDERS TO MAKE MORE REFERRALS. THAT'S A PROBLEM IN

OUR STATE. YOU KNOW, THAT --

MR. DURSO: WE ALSO DON'T HAVE ENOUGH.

MS. PAULIN: WE -- I CAN -- YOU KNOW, I -- I THINK

THOSE ARE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE COULD HAVE WITH THE NOT-FOR-PROFIT

PROVIDERS TO HELP THEM, BUT THIS BILL ISN'T REALLY GEARED TOWARD

ENCOURAGING OR DISCOURAGING THEM. YOU KNOW, THIS BILL IS REALLY ABOUT

PROVIDING THE BEST CARE TO NEW YORKERS.

MR. DURSO: UNDERSTOOD. AND -- AND JUST TO -- JUST

FOR CLARITY, YOU HAD SAID EARLIER THAT THERE'S REALLY NO COMPLAINTS OR --

OR REALLY COMPLAINTS IN REGARDS TO THE TWO FOR-PROFIT HOSPICE FACILITIES

THAT ARE IN NEW YORK STATE. THERE'S NOTHING PENDING? NO COMPLAINTS,

NO FRAUD, AS YOU SAID, CORRECT?

MS. PAULIN: AS OF TWO YEARS AGO WHEN WE

INQUIRED THERE WERE NONE.

MR. DURSO: SO COULD THOSE TWO FOR-PROFIT

BUSINESSES EXPAND IN NEW YORK STATE UNDER THIS CURRENT LEGISLATION?

MS. PAULIN: THEY COULD EXPAND BY HIRING MORE

PEOPLE AND USING -- DOING MORE HOME CARE AND MORE HOSPITAL CARE.

THEY COULD NOT GROW THEIR FACILITY TO ENLARGE THEIR NUMBER OF BEDS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. DURSO: SO IF THEY HAD A HOSPICE CARE FACILITY

IN, LET'S SAY, LONG ISLAND. THEY COULDN'T OPEN UP A NEW ONE IN

ALBANY?

MS. PAULIN: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DURSO: BUT WHY WOULD WE DISCOURAGE

COMPANIES THAT ARE -- HAVE A GOOD RATING, ARE DOING A GOOD JOB

PROVIDING THE CARE THAT'S NEEDED IN NEW YORK STATE FROM EXPANDING

THEIR BUSINESS THAT'S GOING TO HELP NEW YORKERS? WHY WOULD WE

DISCOURAGE THAT IF -- IF -- EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID WAS WE NEED MORE

HOSPICE PROVIDERS, WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO COME IN. WE JUST

DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE A BUSINESS THAT ACTUALLY PROVIDES A VERY MUCH-

NEEDED SERVICE IN NEW YORK STATE TO EXPAND THEIR BUSINESS.

MS. PAULIN: I WOULD SAY IF ALBANY -- YOU KNOW,

THE -- THE PEOPLE OF ALBANY OR A GROUP IN ALBANY WANTED TO HAVE A

HOSPICE FACILITY IN ALBANY, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE ISN'T, BUT IF THEY

WANTED TO HAVE ANOTHER ONE, THE BETTER REACH OUT WOULD BE TO A NOT-

FOR-PROFIT PROVIDER, NOT TO A FOR-PROFIT PROVIDER.

MR. DURSO: BUT -- BUT WE'RE NOT GETTING ANY MORE

OF THOSE. I MEAN --

MS. PAULIN: NO, BUT WE'RE -- BUT TO YOUR POINT, YOU

KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW OF ANY APPLICATIONS FOR-PROFIT --

MR. DURSO: I DEFINITELY DON'T.

MS. PAULIN: OKAY.

MR. DURSO: I -- I DEFINITELY DON'T KNOW OF ANY

APPLICATIONS, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU DO.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MS. PAULIN: I DON'T.

MR. DURSO: BUT THE -- BUT THE -- BUT WE BOTH AGREE

AT THE CURRENT MOMENT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH. THERE'S NOT ENOUGH

PROVIDERS IN NEW YORK STATE TO PROVIDE THAT CARE FOR THOSE NEW

YORKERS THAT NEED IT, BUT WITH THIS WE'RE NOW DISCOURAGING FOR-PROFIT

BUSINESSES TO EXPAND AND CREATE NEW ONES.

MS. PAULIN: BECAUSE THEY GIVE POOR CARE. SO WE

DON'T WANT --

MR. DURSO: BUT NOT THE -- THEY GIVE POOR CARE, BUT

NOT THE TWO THAT WE HAVE.

MS. PAULIN: WELL, YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO GROW JUST

THOSE TWO IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS? YOU KNOW, THAT -- THAT -- WE HAVE

HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THEM THAT THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT, BUT, YOU KNOW,

THEN OF COURSE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS TAKE OVER THE

CARE? WE KNOW THAT THE DRIVING -- THAT HEALTHCARE WHEN IT'S DRIVEN BY

PROFIT IS NOT THE WAY TO GO. THAT'S WHY HOSPITALS ARE NOT-FOR-PROFIT.

YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT THE WAY WE SHOULD BE DOING

HEALTHCARE. AND SO -- BUT WE'VE NEVER BROUGHT THAT SAME IDEA OR THAT --

THAT -- THAT SAME KNOWLEDGE TO HOSPICE CARE, SO NOW WE ARE.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. THANK YOU, MA'AM. I

APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION, BUT IF

MEMBERS WISH TO VOTE YES THEY CAN DO SO AT THEIR SEATS NOW. THANK

YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BENEDETTO.

MR. BENEDETTO: THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL

BE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS PARTICULAR BILL, BUT IF THOSE WHO WANT TO

VOTE NO, THEY ARE FREE TO DO SO. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE

THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 8, CALENDAR NO. 27, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00805, CALENDAR NO.

27, EPSTEIN, RAGA, LEVENBERG, BURDICK, SHIMSKY, REYES, SIMONE,

TAPIA, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC BUILDINGS LAW, IN

RELATION TO REQUIRING GENDER-NEUTRAL BATHROOMS IN STATE-OWNED

BUILDINGS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. EPSTEIN.

MR. EPSTEIN: YES. THIS BILL AMENDS OUR CURRENT

LAW WHICH SAYS IN GOVERNMENT-OWNED AND OPERATED BUILDINGS THAT WE

SHOULD DESIGNATE AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM IF THERE WAS A SINGLE STALL.

THIS BILL ALLOWS IT TO SAY IF THERE IS NO SINGLE STALL THAT (INAUDIBLE) AN

ALL-GENDER BATHROOM AND MULTIPLE STALLS IN GOVERNMENT-OWNED AND

OPERATED BUILDINGS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. GANDOLFO.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR PLEASE YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. EPSTEIN: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU. SO I'M LOOKING AT

THIS, NOW THIS WOULD REQUIRE ANY STATE-OWNED OR LEASED BUILDING THAT

DOESN'T HAVE A SINGLE -- SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOM TO CONVERT AN

EXISTING MULTI-OCCUPANCY BATHROOM TO A GENDER-NEUTRAL OR AN ALL-

GENDER BATHROOM; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: YES, WHEREVER PRACTICAL.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. WELL, WHEREVER -- THAT --

THAT TERM, "WHEREVER PRACTICAL", IT WAS IN LAST YEAR'S VERSION OF THE BILL

BUT I DON'T SEE IT IN THE CURRENT LANGUAGE. IT LOOKS LIKE THAT WAS

REMOVED.

MR. EPSTEIN: IT'S -- IT'S WITHIN A LARGER VERSION OF

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

THE STATUTE. IT'S NOT IN THIS SECTION THAT WE AMENDED, IT'S IN THE STATUTE

ITSELF.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY, BUT -- SO WHERE IN THE

STATUTE WOULD THAT BE?

(PAUSE)

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, GIVE ME A SECOND. I'LL GET

BACK TO YOU.

MR. GANDOLFO: SURE.

(PAUSE)

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU WANT TO ASK YOUR NEXT QUESTION

WHILE I LOOK, OR...

MR. GANDOLFO: YEAH, SURE. SO LET'S JUST GET INTO

IT, THEN. WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A MULTIPLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOM?

MR. EPSTEIN: A BATHROOM WITH MORE THAN ONE

STALL, MORE THAN ONE SINK.

MR. GANDOLFO: MORE THAN ONE. OKAY. NOW,

WITH THAT -- OKAY, SO MORE THAN ONE STALL. NOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF

OBVIOUSLY STATE BUILDINGS, LARGE BUILDINGS LIKE THE LEGISLATIVE OFFICE

BUILDING THAT HAVE A MEN'S ROOM AND A WOMEN'S ROOM, SOMETIMES TWO

ON EVERY FLOOR. SO IF -- AND I DON'T KNOW OF ANY SINGLE-OCCUPANCY

BATHROOMS IN THE LOB, SO LET'S SAY HYPOTHETICALLY THEN THERE WOULD

JUST NEED TO BE ONE MULTI-OCCUPANCY BATHROOM SOMEWHERE ON THE NINE

FLOORS OF THE LOB?

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, AND THEN THERE WOULD BE

NOTICE PUT UP IN THE BUILDING SO PEOPLE WERE -- WERE AWARE THAT THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

BATHROOM WAS THERE.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY, SO JUST ONE WOULD CHECK

OFF THAT --

MR. EPSTEIN: IN THE BUILDING.

MR. GANDOLFO: -- BOX --

MR. EPSTEIN: EXACTLY.

MR. GANDOLFO: -- THAT WOULD BE UP ON THE NINTH

FLOOR AND THEY WOULD JUST --

MR. EPSTEIN: FIFTH FLOOR, WHATEVER, YEP.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. NOW --

MR. EPSTEIN: AS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. NOW, AND MY CONCERN

HERE IS THIS IS A BUILDING, OR THE LOB IS A BUILDING THAT HAS A LOT OF

DIFFERENT BATHROOMS AND YOU COULD KIND OF MAKE THAT WORK. BUT WHAT

ABOUT IN THE CASE OF A STATE-OWNED OR STATE-LEASED BUILDING WHERE

THERE ARE ONLY TWO BATHROOMS ON PREMISE, BOTH MULTI-OCCUPANCY, ONE

MEN'S ROOM, ONE WOMEN'S ROOM. WHICH ONE WOULD BE CONVERTED INTO

AN ALL-GENDER ROOM?

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH. IF YOU'RE SAYING IF IT'S NOT

PRACTICAL TO DO IT, THEN THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO DO IT. IF THEY DON'T HAVE A

SINGLE -- SINGLE STALL OR A MULTIPLE STALL.

MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT. BUT AGAIN, I DON'T SEE IT IN

THE STATUTE ANYMORE WHERE IT WAS LAST YEAR, WHERE IT MADE CLEAR THAT IF

IT WASN'T PRACTICABLE TO DO THAT FOR AN INSTANCE WHERE THERE'S ONLY TWO

AVAILABLE MULTI-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS. THAT'S NO LONGER IN THE BILL.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. EPSTEIN: RIGHT. IT'S IN THE STATUTE, NOT IN THE

BILL.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY, BUT WHERE -- WHERE IN THE

STATUTE? I -- I KNOW YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE FOUND IT YET, BUT I'M LOOKING AT

THE BILL IN FRONT OF US, AND THE PREVIOUS VERSIONS OF THE BILL HAVE

INCLUDED THAT PHRASE WHICH IS NOW GONE. SO THAT LEADS ME TO BELIEVE

THAT NOW ANY STATE-OWNED BUILDING WOULD HAVE TO CONVERT ONE OF THESE

EVEN IF THERE'S ONLY TWO BATHROOMS. AND I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE;

STATE PARKS. MY -- ONE OF MY FAVORITE LOCAL STATE PARKS, ROBERT MOSES

STATE PARK, YOU GO TO WHATEVER FIELD AT THE BEACH YOU'RE GONNA GO TO

AND THERE ARE TWO MULTI-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS; ONE MEN'S ROOM, ONE

WOMEN'S ROOM. NOW, ONE OF THOSE WITH WHAT I'M READING HERE IN THE

BILL WOULD HAVE TO BE TURNED INTO A ALL-GENDER BATHROOM.

MR. EPSTEIN: IS THAT A QUESTION?

MR. GANDOLFO: YES. LET ME -- IT WOULD HAVE TO

BE TURNED INTO AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM?

MR. EPSTEIN: ONLY IF IT'S PRACTICAL.

MR. GANDOLFO: BUT AGAIN, THE -- THE LANGUAGE

"ONLY WHEN PRACTICAL" IS NOT HERE, AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT FALLS INTO

THE STATUTE. SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT -- THAT OMISSION OPENS THIS UP TO

EVERY SINGLE STATE-OWNED BUILDING WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE ONE OR TWO

BATHROOMS. SO YOU COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, A STATE PARK WHERE THERE'S A

MEN'S ROOM AND A WOMEN'S ROOM, NOW ONE OF THOSE TWO GENDERS IS

GOING TO LOSE THE PRIVACY OF THAT SPACE. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD BE

A WOMAN USING THE WOMEN'S ROOM AND A MAN COULD JUST WALK IN. IS

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

THAT -- IS THAT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE?

MR. EPSTEIN: NO, IT'S NOT THE INTENT OF THIS -- OF THE

BILL. IT'S TO CREATE -- WHEN THERE'S MULTIPLE ALL-GENDER -- MULTIPLE-STALL

BATHROOMS IN A BUILDING THAT'S OWNED OR OPERATED BY THE GOVERNMENT TO

CONVERT ONE OF THE MULTIPLE BATHROOMS TO AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM FOR

THE PURPOSE OF ENSURING THAT PEOPLE WHO NEED AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM,

WHETHER IT'S FOR A PARENT WHO HAS A CHILD WHO HAS A DIFFERENT GENDER OR

SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T -- IS GENDER-NONCONFORMING, OR IF SOMEONE WHO

NEEDS A GENDER BATHROOM THAT'S ALL-GENDER FOR WHATEVER PURPOSE THEY

NEED, TO HAVE THE ACCESS TO THAT AND AVAILABLE TO THEM.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. NOW, WOULD THIS APPLY IN

SITUATIONS, MAYBE THERE ARE SOME FACILITIES LIKE A POOL FACILITY THAT

MIGHT HAVE LOCKER ROOMS ATTACHED TO THE BATHROOM AND THAT MIGHT BE

THE ONLY FACILITY ON PREMISE. HOW WOULD THAT WORK IN THAT SITUATION

WHERE THERE'S ALSO --

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S ONLY TWO

LOCKER ROOMS?

MR. GANDOLFO: THERE'S TWO -- LET'S SAY THERE'S

TWO LOCKER ROOMS, MEN'S, WOMEN'S, AND THAT'S WHERE THE BATHROOMS ARE

ALSO LOCATED.

MR. EPSTEIN: RIGHT. THAT WOULDN'T BE PRACTICAL --

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. EPSTEIN: -- TO CREATE A THIRD BATHROOM UNLESS

THERE WAS A THIRD BATHROOM.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. AND NOW THE DISPUTE OVER

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

WHETHER OR NOT IT FALLS UNDER THAT PRACTICALITY STANDARD THERE, SAY IT IS

PRACTICAL AND THERE'S AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM CREATED. ARE THERE ANY

ALTERCATIONS [SIC] THAT MUST BE MADE TO THE BATHROOM? YOU USED THE

EXAMPLE OF, YOU KNOW, BRINGING A CHILD INTO A BATHROOM. NOW SAY THE

MEN'S ROOM WAS TURNED INTO THE ALL-GENDER ROOM AND SOMEONE WALKS

IN WITH THEIR DAUGHTER AND THERE'S JUST SOME DUDE STANDING AT THE

URINAL. IS THAT REALLY COMFORTABLE FOR ANYONE IN THAT SITUATION? IT

SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE -- THIS IS OPENING UP TO SOME REAL TOUGH SITUATIONS

INVOLVING SOME SENSITIVE PLACES.

MR. EPSTEIN: SO THE GOVERNMENT IS CREATING AN ALL-

GENDER BATHROOM, THEY'RE DOING IT IN A WAY TO MAKE PEOPLE WHO WANT

TO USE AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM COMFORTABLE. AND SO THE LIKELIHOOD IS

THAT SITUATION IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN BECAUSE OUR GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

ARE GONNA ENSURE THAT THAT BATHROOM IS ACCESSIBLE FOR EVERYONE WHO

WANTS AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM.

MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT.

MR. EPSTEIN: IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT A WOMEN'S ROOM

WOULD BE CONVERTED TO AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM THAN A MEN'S ROOM WITH

URINALS, OR IF THERE WAS A MEN'S ROOM WITH URINALS THEY WOULD PROBABLY,

LIKE WE'VE SEEN IN NUMEROUS ALL-GENDER BATHROOMS, COVER THE URINALS

SO THEY WERE NO LONGER USABLE OR ACCESSIBLE.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. AND, YOU KNOW, AND

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE COMFORTABLE USING ONE OF THESE ALL-GENDER

BATHROOMS, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE GENDER THAT LOSES THAT BATHROOM THAT ARE

USED TO HAVING THAT PRIVATE SPACE? WHAT ABOUT THEIR COMFORT?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. EPSTEIN: SO, THEY WILL STILL HAVE A BATHROOM

FOR THEIR GENDER AVAILABLE TO THEM BECAUSE THEY'LL BE MULTIPLE

BATHROOMS AVAILABLE HERE IN THE CAPITOL OR IN THE LOB. SO YOU WON'T

-- INSTEAD OF HAVING TWO WOMEN'S ROOMS ON THE EIGHTH FLOOR YOU'LL HAVE

ONE, BUT YOU'LL HAVE TWO ON THE SEVENTH AND NINTH FLOOR.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. OKAY. BUT AGAIN, IT'S STILL

UNCLEAR WHETHER OR NOT THIS WOULD APPLY TO BUILDINGS THAT ONLY HAVE

TWO BATHROOMS --

MR. EPSTEIN: UNCLEAR --

MR. GANDOLFO: UNCLEAR FOR THE MOMENT. OKAY.

MR. EPSTEIN: NOT TO ME. NOT UNCLEAR TO ME.

MR. GANDOLFO: WELL, IT'S A LITTLE UNCLEAR TO ME

BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE LAN -- THE TEXT WAS SPECIFICALLY REMOVED FROM THE

BILL REGARDING THE -- THE PRACTICALITY OF THIS.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. GANDOLFO: MADAM SPEAKER, I THOUGHT I GOT

WHAT THE SPONSOR WAS GOING FOR HERE, BUT WITH THE OMISSION OF THAT

PRACTICALITY STANDARD TO CONVERT A MEN'S OR A WOMEN'S ROOM INTO AN

ALL-GENDER ROOM, I FEAR THAT THIS BILL CAPTURES SITUATIONS WHERE THERE ARE

-- THERE'S A STATE BUILDING THAT ONLY HAS TWO MULTI-OCCUPANCY

RESTROOMS, IN WHICH CASE EITHER THE MEN ARE GOING TO LOSE THEIR

BATHROOM OR THE WOMEN ARE GOING TO LOSE THEIR BATHROOM TO AN

ALL-GENDER ROOM. AND, YOU KNOW, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S COMFORTABLE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

FOR WOMEN OR MEN WHO ARE USED TO HAVING THIS PRIVATE, INTIMATE SPACE

TO NOW HAVE IT OPENED UP TO JUST ANYBODY TO WALK IN. IF IT'S FOR THE

PURPOSE OF BEING ABLE TO BRING CHILDREN INTO THE BATHROOM, AGAIN,

WITHOUT PROPER PRECAUTIONS TAKEN THAT'S ALSO, I THINK, MAKING

EVERYBODY IN THE SITUATION A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE. AND TO MY

KNOWLEDGE, IF WE'RE DEALING WITH GENDER IDENTITY, THAT'S ALREADY

COVERED BY THE GENDA LAW THAT WAS PASSED YEARS AGO WHICH ALLOWS

PEOPLE TO USE WHICHEVER BATHROOM THEY WISH BASED ON THEIR GENDER

IDENTITY AT THAT TIME. SO THIS, I THINK, IS GOING A STEP TOO FAR. THE -- THE

STATUTE -- WELL, THE BILL HERE ISN'T REALLY WRITTEN TIGHT ENOUGH, AND IT'S

GOING TO CREATE SOME REALLY UNFORTUNATE SITUATIONS IN SENSITIVE

LOCATIONS FOR MEN AND WOMEN AT OUR STATE PARKS AND SOME ATHLETIC

FACILITIES, YOU KNOW, AT SUNY COLLEGES.

SO I WILL BE VOTING NO. I -- I THINK THIS BILL NEEDS A LOT

OF WORK AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK

YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. BROWN -- ARI BROWN.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. EPSTEIN: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR. I'M STILL

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A GENDER-NEUTRAL

BATHROOM? IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE HAVE A MEN'S ROOM AND WE HAVE A

WOMEN'S ROOM AND A PERSON IDENTIFIES AS A MALE OR A FEMALE, THEY

ALREADY HAVE THE BATHROOM TO GO TO. WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE OF

THIS GENDER-NEUTRAL BATHROOM?

MR. EPSTEIN: SO, WHEN MY DAUGHTER WAS 8 TO 12

YEARS OLD AND WE WERE IN A PUBLIC SPACE, I WOULD HAVE TO TAKE HER INTO

A MEN'S ROOM EVEN THOUGH IT WAS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE FOR HER AND FOR

OTHER PEOPLE TO USE THE BATHROOM, AND IT ALLOWS A SPACE WHERE PEOPLE

KNOW THAT THAT'S AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM TO MAKE SURE IT'S COMFORTABLE

FOR EVERYONE IN THAT SPACE. IT CREATES A SPACE THAT PEOPLE FEEL

COMFORTABLE IN KNOWING THAT THEY'RE CHOOSING TO USE AN ALL-GENDER

BATHROOM THAT ALL GENDERS WILL BE ALLOWED IN THERE. AND IT -- AND IT

REDUCES TENSIONS AND ISSUES THAT MIGHT OTHERWISE ARISE. AND SOME

OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE GENDER-NONCONFORMING KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A

SPACE THAT THEY CAN GO IN WHERE THERE WON'T BE INCIDENTS OR ISSUES WITH

THEM WALKING INTO THAT BATHROOM.

THE THIRD THING IS IT REALLY -- IT RECOGNIZES THAT THIS IS A

COMPLICATED PLACE IN GOVERNMENT AND THAT WE HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE

COMING IN TO OUR GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS AND THAT WE WANT TO MAKE

SPACES AVAILABLE FOR -- FOR ALL OF US.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR. TO YOUR

RESPONSE, JUST TO MAKE SOMEONE MORE COMFORTABLE BY LABELING A

PARTICULAR BATHROOM GENDER-NEUTRAL, WOULDN'T YOU BE CREATING THE EXACT

CIRCUMSTANCE THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO AVOID FOR WHOMEVER IT IS THAT'S IN

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

THAT BATHROOM? IN OTHER WORDS, YOU WERE UNCOMFORTABLE YOU HAD

MENTIONED BRINGING YOUR DAUGHTER INTO THE OPPOSITE SEX BATHROOM, BUT

BY YOU GOING INTO THAT BATHROOM, WOULDN'T IT POTENTIALLY CREATE THE

SAME CIRCUMSTANCE FOR OTHERS?

MR. EPSTEIN: NO, BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CHOOSE TO

USE THAT BATHROOM IF THEY WANT TO USE THAT BATHROOM. IF PEOPLE DON'T

WANT TO, THEY WILL CHOOSE TO USE A DIFFERENT BATHROOM. IT GIVES PEOPLE

THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A CHOICE THAT THEY FEEL MOST COMFORTABLE WITH

AROUND GOING TO A BATHROOM THAT'S PUBLICLY AVAILABLE IN A GOVERNMENT

BUILDING.

MR. A. BROWN: RIGHT.

IF -- IF I MAY, MR. SPONSOR, ON SECTION 1, LINE 10, WE

HAD -- YOU HAD DISCUSSED THIS PREVIOUSLY, BUT JUST FOR SOME

CLARIFICATION, IF NO SINGLE OCCUPANCY BATHROOM CAN BE DESIGNATED AS

GENDER-NEUTRAL IN A STATE-OWNED BUILDING, A MULTI-OCCUPANCY

BATHROOM SHALL BE DESIGNATED AS GENDER-NEUTRAL INSTEAD. I HEARD THE

RESPONSE, BUT IT REALLY WASN'T CLEAR. YOU SAID IF IT'S POSSIBLE. IN OTHER

WORDS, IF WE HAVE A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THERE ARE ONLY TWO BATHROOMS,

A MALE AND A -- A MEN'S AND A WOMEN'S BATHROOM, WILL IT BE REQUIRED IN

THAT BUILDING TO BE CONVERTED -- ONE OF THOSE BE REQUIRED TO BE

CONVERTED INTO A GENDER-NEUTRAL BATHROOM? IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT'S THE

CATALYST FOR PUSHING IT TO THE OTHER SIDE WHICH MAKES IT PRACTICAL?

MR. EPSTEIN: NO, BECAUSE IF THERE'S ONLY TWO

BATHROOMS, THAT'S NOT PRACTICAL TO CONVERT ONE OF THOSE TO AN ALL-GENDER

BATHROOM, SO THAT'S NOT PRACTICAL. THEN IT WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED TO DO IT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

UNDER THE LAW.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR. SO

YOU'RE SAYING THERE WON'T BE ANY LEGISLATION WHICH WILL EVENTUALLY

REQUIRE, LIKE WE HAD IN '93 WITH THE ADA LAWS TO COMPLY WITH -- FOR

PEOPLE FOR AMERICAN DISABILITIES [SIC], THIS -- THIS ISN'T GONNA FORCE

PEOPLE INTO SPENDING THE MONEY TO CREATE THIS ADDITIONAL BATHROOM IS

WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

MR. EPSTEIN: ARE YOU ASKING ME IF I CAN READ INTO

THE FUTURE IF SOMEONE ELSE IS GONNA INTRODUCE THE BILL IN 10, 20 OR 30

YEARS FROM NOW?

MR. A. BROWN: I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND

INTENT. WE -- WHAT HAPPENS --

MR. EPSTEIN: THE INTENT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT

THERE'S A BATHROOM AVAILABLE IN GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS LIKE THIS BUILDING

THAT'S GENDER-NEUTRAL FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT OR NEED ACCESS TO A GENDER-

NEUTRAL BATHROOM.

MR. A. BROWN: AGAIN, I -- I APPRECIATE THAT. I

ONLY ASK THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE AN EXPRESSION IN THE JEWISH RELIGION,

"AVERAH GORERET AVERAH", WE SEE IN THIS ONE BAD DEED LEADS TO ANOTHER.

WE SEE THAT HAPPENS QUITE OFTEN HERE. WE JUST, YOU KNOW, LET OUT THE

LEASH A LITTLE BIT AND EVENTUALLY IT GROWS INTO SOMETHING ELSE THAT IT

SHOULDN'T BE. BUT I APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSE.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. A. BROWN: I -- I -- THIS IS -- MAY BE POSSIBLY A

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

WELL-INTENTIONED BILL, BUT AS THE NATION HAS SPOKEN IN A GREAT WAY WITH

THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, WHETHER LIBERAL, CONSERVATIVE, DEMOCRAT OR

REPUBLICAN, THE NATION IS TOTALLY AGAINST THIS TYPE OF CIRCUMSTANCE,

WHETHER IT'S IN SPORTS OR IN BATHROOMS. AND FOR THAT REASON, RESPECT, I

WILL CERTAINLY BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. DURSO.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. EPSTEIN: SURE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. EPSTEIN. SO I JUST

WANTED TO CIRCLE BACK. YOU -- YOU'RE STATING IT SAYS "WHERE PRACTICAL."

I -- WE STILL HAVEN'T FOUND WHERE THAT IS IN THE BILL.

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, I SAID IT'S NOT IN THE BILL, IT'S IN

THE STATUTE.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. COULD YOU -- DO YOU KNOW

WHERE IT IS SO WE CAN SEE IT?

MR. EPSTEIN: I DON'T HAVE -- I DON'T HAVE THE REST OF

THE STATUTE HERE, I JUST HAVE THE BILL.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO -- BUT YOU'RE PUTTING ON

LEGISLATIVE RECORD THAT IT DOES SAY IN THE STATUTE "WHERE PRACTICAL." SO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

IN OTHER WORDS, IF I GO TO JONES BEACH, RIGHT, WHICH IS A STATE-OWNED

PARK, CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: AND I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'D GO TO

JONES BEACH, HONESTLY, BUT THAT'S YOUR CHOICE.

MR. DURSO: WELL, I'M JUST USING A STATE -- WELL, I --

I GO TO TOBAY BEACH, BUT THAT'S -- THAT'S, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY OWNED

BY THE TOWN. BUT IF I GO TO JONES BEACH AND THERE IS OBVIOUSLY ONLY

TWO BATHROOMS --

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH.

MR. DURSO: -- RIGHT? YOU'RE SAYING WHERE

PRACTICAL. IT'S NOT IN THE BILL, BUT YOU'RE SAYING IT'S IN THE STATUTE. I --

WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT. AND IT WAS TAKING -- THE LANGUAGE WAS ORIGINALLY

TAKEN OUT OF THE BILL, WHICH OBVIOUSLY MAKE ME NERVOUS TO THE FACT THAT

IT MAY NOT BE ANYWHERE BECAUSE NONE OF US COULD SEE IT. SO YOU'RE

SAYING ONE OF THOSE BATHROOMS IN EACH INDIVIDUAL BUILDING, CORRECT,

WOULD HAVE TO BE TURNED INTO GENDER-NEUTRAL?

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU SAID THERE'S TWO BATHROOMS IN

THE BUILDING?

MR. DURSO: RIGHT. SO -- SO --

MR. EPSTEIN: THERE'S ONLY TWO BATHROOMS?

MR. DURSO: WELL, RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? SO IF WE ONLY

HAVE TWO BATHROOMS --

MR. EPSTEIN: SO IF THERE'S ONLY TWO BATHROOMS

THEN IT'S NOT PRACTICAL TO TURN ONE OF THOSE INTO A GENDER-NEUTRAL

BATHROOM.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. DURSO: I KNOW, I JUST DON'T HAVE THAT LANGUAGE

ANYMORE.

MR. EPSTEIN: IF THERE'S FOUR BATHROOMS OR SIX

BATHROOMS OR EIGHT BATHROOMS OR TEN BATHROOMS IT'S A DIFFERENT STORY.

MR. DURSO: RIGHT. BUT WE JUST -- WE DON'T HAVE

ANY OF THAT LANGUAGE. BUT YOU'RE -- YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE -- ON THE

LEGISLATIVE RECORD --

MR. EPSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE/CROSSTALK)

MR. DURSO: -- THAT IT SAYS "WHERE PRACTICAL."

OKAY. AND YOU'RE SAYING IT'S FOR STATE-OWNED OR STATE-RUN FACILITIES,

CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DURSO: RUN BY OGS?

MR. EPSTEIN: YES.

MR. DURSO: SO, THERE IS A VERY LONG LIST, AND

OBVIOUSLY I CAN'T GO THROUGH THEM ALL --

MR. EPSTEIN: SURE.

MR. DURSO: -- OF THINGS THAT OGS RUNS. I JUST

WANTED TO MAKE SURE CERTAIN THINGS THAT WILL BE INCLUDED IN THIS. THIS

WILL BE INCLUDED FOR ALL SUNY SCHOOLS, CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: SUNY IS STATE-OWNED OR STATE-

OPERATED.

MR. DURSO: YES. SO WILL IT -- WILL IT BE IN EFFECT

FOR CUNY?

MR. EPSTEIN: CUNY SCHOOLS, IF THEY'RE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

STATE-OWNED -- DEFINED AS STATE-OWNED OR STATE-OPERATED, YES.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO NOW, WHEN IT COMES TO

TALKING ABOUT HOW IT GETS IMPLEMENTED, BUILDING --

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH.

MR. DURSO: -- RIGHT? SO IS IT EACH INDIVIDUAL

BUILDING? SO OBVIOUSLY THE LOB IS SEPARATE FROM THE CAPITOL --

MR. EPSTEIN: CORRECT.

MR. DURSO: -- RIGHT? SO IF -- IF IT'S A STATE-OWNED

BUILDING. SO IF IT'S A SCHOOL, EACH INDIVIDUAL BUILDING, NO MATTER THE

SIZE OF THEM, HAS TO HAVE WHAT FITS INTO THIS BILL, CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: AS LONG AS THERE'S MULTIPLE

BATHROOMS IN THE BUILDING AND IT'S PRACTICAL TO CONVERT ONE TO AN

ALL-GENDER BATHROOM.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. AND WHO WILL DECIDE WHICH

BATHROOM AND WHY?

MR. EPSTEIN: THAT'S THE JOB OF THE AGENCY TO DO

THAT.

MR. DURSO: OF OGS?

MR. EPSTEIN: IF IT'S MANAGED BY OGS, SURE.

MR. DURSO: SO AS YOU WERE SAYING BEFORE, IF THEY

WERE DECIDING TO TURN A MEN'S ROOM, RIGHT, INTO THE GENDER-NEUTRAL

BATHROOM --

MR. EPSTEIN: YEP.

MR. DURSO: -- FOR THE PURPOSES OF -- LIKE YOU SAID,

I'M -- I'M A FATHER OF TWO DAUGHTERS, RIGHT, SO IF I GO INTO THE BATHROOM

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

I WANT TO FEEL COMFORTABLE --

MR. EPSTEIN: SURE.

MR. DURSO: -- TO LET MY DAUGHTER -- YOU KNOW,

CHANGE MY CHILDREN WHEN THEY WERE YOUNGER OR OBVIOUSLY HAVE THEM

USE THOSE BATHROOMS. BUT THEY USE THE MEN'S ROOM AND THERE'S URINALS

ON THE WALL, YOU'RE SAYING THEY COULD COVER THEM. WHY WOULDN'T WE

HAVE THOSE FACILITIES CHANGED SO THAT EVERYTHING'S JUST A STALL SO YOU CAN

HAVE PRIVACY?

MR. EPSTEIN: SO, YOU COULD CHANGE IT. THERE'S

NOTHING THAT PREVENTS OGS FROM CHANGING IT, THERE'S NOTHING THAT

REQUIRES THEM TO DO IT. IT'S REALLY UP TO THE AGENCY TO DETERMINE WHAT

BATHROOM THEY'RE GONNA CONVERT AND IF THERE'S ANY COST ASSOCIATED WITH

IT. THE REALITY IS WE EXPECT THAT THIS CAN BE MINIMUM COST BECAUSE

THERE -- IN MOST OF OUR BUILDINGS IT -- IT WILL -- WILL BE EASIER TO CONVERT

A BATHROOM TO AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM BY EITHER COVERING URINALS, LIKE

YOU MENTIONED, OR BY JUST CHANGING THE SIGN ON THE WOMEN'S ROOM TO

JUST MAKING IT AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM.

MR. DURSO: SO THAT'S ANOTHER THING I JUST WANTED TO

GET INTO. BUT JUST BEFORE I DO, WE HAVE SOME GOOD NEWS.

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH.

MR. DURSO: WE HAVE THE LANGUAGE FROM THE

STATUTE.

MR. EPSTEIN: GREAT.

MR. DURSO: IT SAYS -- THE STATUTE ONLY SAYS THAT

PRACTICAL IN STATE-LEASED BUILDINGS, NOT STATE-OWNED. SO EVERY STATE-

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

OWNED BUILDING WILL HAVE TO DO THIS.

MR. EPSTEIN: I -- I -- MY UNDERSTANDING -- I DON'T

HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME, SO I CAN'T READ IT.

MR. DURSO: WE DO.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. EPSTEIN: I BELIEVE YOU HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU.

MR. DURSO: YES.

MR. EPSTEIN: IT'S STATE-OWNED OR OPERATED

BUILDINGS WHERE IT'S PRACTICAL.

MR. DURSO: IT'S WRITTEN -- IT'S WRITTEN IN THE STATUTE

STATE-LEASED. NOT STATE-OWNED OR OPERATED, IT'S ONLY STATE-LEASED. SO

IT'S EVERY STATE-OWNED OR OPERATED BUILDING WILL HAVE TO DO THIS,

CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: WHERE EXTENT PRACTICAL.

MR. DURSO: AND IT'S ONLY FOR SINGLE OCCUPANCY.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, ACCORDING TO THE STATUTE THAT YOU --

MR. EPSTEIN: WELL, WE'RE AMENDING THE STATUTE

FROM SINGLE OCCUPANCY SAYING SINGLE OCCUPANCY, AND IF NO SINGLE

OCCUPANCY, MULTIPLE OCCUPANCY, WHICH IS THE SAME SECTION OF THE

STATUTE AND WE'RE JUST AMENDING IT.

MR. DURSO: ONLY FOR LEASED.

MR. EPSTEIN: STATE-OWNED OR OPERATED IS MY --

MR. DURSO: NO, IT SAYS LEASED IN THE STATUTE. WE

HAVE A COPY OF IT. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S ON THE LEGISLATIVE RECORD

BECAUSE, AGAIN -- AND I UNDERSTAND AND I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH YOU AND

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF THE BILL, AND I APPRECIATE IT AS A FATHER WITH

TWO DAUGHTERS. THE PROBLEM IS THE BILL IS NOT PRACTICAL BECAUSE IT SAYS

LEASED ONLY, NOT STATE-OWNED.

MR. EPSTEIN: I MEAN, MY UNDERSTANDING -- AND

AGAIN, STATE-LEASED AND/OR OPERATED BUILDINGS.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW WHAT

IT SAYS IN THE STATUTE, SIR.

MR. EPSTEIN: I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. REILLY.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. EPSTEIN: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU. SO, IN THE BILL THE

WORDING "SHALL" IS INCLUDED. AND WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF "SHALL?"

MR. EPSTEIN: THEY MUST IF THEY DON'T HAVE A

SINGLE-USE BATHROOM WHERE THE EXTENT PRACTICAL HAVE A MULTIPLE-STALL --

STALL GENDER-NEUTRAL BATHROOM AVAILABLE.

MR. REILLY: SO BASICALLY IF THERE'S A URINAL AND A

TOILET, IT COULD BE -- AND ONE SINK --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. EPSTEIN: TWO STALLS. THIS HAS GOT TWO STALLS?

MR. REILLY: TWO STALLS?

MR. EPSTEIN: MULTIPLE. THAT'S MORE THAN ONE.

MR. REILLY: CONTAINING AT -- MULTIPLE OCCUPANCY

BATHROOMS MEANS A ROOM OR A SUITE OF ROOMS CONTAINING AT LEAST ONE

SINK AND AT LEAST TWO SANITARY FIXTURES SUCH AS TOILETS OR URINALS

INTENDED FOR SIMULTANEOUS USE BY TWO OR MORE OCCUPANTS. SO THE WAY

I READ THAT IS IF IT HAS ONE URINAL AND ONE TOILET AND ONE SINK IT COULD BE

CHANGED TO A GENDER-NEUTRAL; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: I WOULD ARGUE IF IT'S GOT ONE TOILET,

ONE URINAL AND ONE SINK, THAT'S A SINGLE-OCCUPANCY UNIT AND THAT IT'S

ALREADY COVERED UNDER THE STATUTE.

MR. REILLY: BUT THE BILL -- AND I JUST READ IT TO YOU

-- CLEARLY STATES IN SECTION E, LINE 6 --

MR. EPSTEIN: YEP.

MR. REILLY: -- MULTIPLE OCCUPANCY BATHROOM

MEANS A ROOM OR SUITE OF ROOMS --

MR. EPSTEIN: RIGHT.

MR. REILLY: -- CONTAINING AT LEAST ONE SINK AND AT

LEAST TWO SANITARY FIXTURES SUCH AS TOILETS OR URINALS INTENDED FOR

SIMULTANEOUS USE BY TWO OR MORE OCCUPANTS.

MR. EPSTEIN: RIGHT.

MR. REILLY: SO ONE SINK, ONE URINAL --

MR. EPSTEIN: RIGHT.

MR. REILLY: -- ONE TOILET.

100

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. EPSTEIN: RIGHT.

MR. REILLY: ME, I WALK IN, GO TO THE BATHROOM, I'M

USING THE URINAL.

MR. EPSTEIN: YUP.

MR. REILLY: A FEMALE COLLEAGUE WALKS INTO THE

SAME BATHROOM, USES THE TOILET. THAT'S THE SCENARIO THERE, RIGHT?

MR. EPSTEIN: WELL, THAT SEEMS LIKE A SINGLE-USE

BATHROOM WHERE I'VE SEEN MOST OF THOSE, THERE'S ONE URINAL, ONE SINK,

THAT'S A SINGLE-USE BATHROOM, AND THAT IS ALREADY AVAILABLE TO BE AN ALL-

GENDER BATHROOM. AND IF YOU'RE USING IT AND THIS OTHER PERSON WALKS --

WANTS TO WALK IN, THEY BOTH -- YOU AND THAT OTHER PERSON KNOW IT'S AN

ALL-GENDER BATHROOM.

MR. REILLY: BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS IF -- IF ONE OF

THE BATHROOMS ARE LIKE -- LIKE OUR TWO BATHROOMS HERE, RIGHT, SAY YOU

GOT -- SAY IT WAS (INAUDIBLE/CROSSTALK) --

MR. EPSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE/CROSSTALK) PUBLICLY

AVAILABLE, SO THOSE DON'T COUNT, RIGHT?

MR. REILLY: OKAY, OUTSIDE. SO YOU HAVE ONE STALL

MR. EPSTEIN: ONE STALL.

MR. REILLY: -- ONE URINAL IN A CURRENTLY MEN'S

BATHROOM, RIGHT? ONE STALL, ONE URINAL --

MR. EPSTEIN: RIGHT.

MR. REILLY: -- ONE SINK. CAN THAT BE SWITCHED OVER

TO A GENDER-NEUTRAL?

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, SO THAT SEEMS LIKE A SINGLE

STALL, GENDER-NEUTRAL BATHROOM, WHICH I WOULD ARGUE IS ALREADY

COVERED BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE THE ONE THAT WOULD CONVERT ALREADY

BECAUSE IT'S AN EASY ONE TO CONVERT, AN EASY ONE TO HAVE A SINGLE-USE

AND PUT A LOCK ON THE DOOR AS A SINGLE-USE BATHROOM.

MR. REILLY: SEE, THAT --

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU --

MR. REILLY: GO AHEAD, I'M SORRY.

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU COULD SAY THAT'S A MULTIPLE STALL,

BUT WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM OGS IS THEY WOULD LIKELY BE COVERED

URINALS AND IT WOULD STILL BE CONSIDERED A SINGLE-USE BATHROOM AND THE

URINAL WOULD NO LONGER BE AVAILABLE.

MR. REILLY: BUT YOUR -- BUT YOUR BILL CLEARLY STATES

MR. EPSTEIN: ALLOWS THAT TO HAPPEN, RIGHT.

MR. REILLY: CLEARLY STATES THAT YOU ONLY NEED ONE

TOILET, ONE URINAL, ONE SINK. THAT -- THAT'S THE DISPARITY HERE.

MR. EPSTEIN: I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.

MR. REILLY: FOR -- TO REMOVE -- TO CHANGE THAT

BATHROOM, RIGHT, THAT'S -- THAT'S A DEFINITION OF A MULTI-USE, RIGHT? THAT

-- THAT'S THE QUESTION. SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE TWO STALLS.

MR. EPSTEIN: YES, THAT'S WHAT THE STATUTE SAYS,

THAT'S WHAT THE BILL SAYS.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO THE -- SO "SHALL" MEANS THAT

IF THEY HAVE TWO BATHROOMS LIKE THAT, RIGHT, SAY A FEMALE BATHROOM --

102

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. EPSTEIN: RIGHT.

MR. REILLY: -- WITH TWO STALLS AND A SINK AND YOU

HAVE A MALE BATHROOM WITH ONE URINAL, ONE STALL AND A SINK. ONE OF

THOSE WOULD HAVE TO BE CHANGED; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU HAVE TWO STALLS AND ONE STALL

AND ONE URINAL --

MR. REILLY: YES.

MR. EPSTEIN: -- AND THERE WERE OTHER BATHROOMS ON

THE FLOOR?

MR. REILLY: NO.

MR. EPSTEIN: NO. THAT'S NOT PRACTICAL.

MR. REILLY: THEY HAVE A -- THEY HAVE A BATHROOM

ON THE FLOOR BENEATH IT. WOULD ONE OF THOSE (INAUDIBLE/CROSSTALK).

MR. EPSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE/CROSSTALK). IT JUST HAS TO

BE ONE IN THE BUILDING.

MR. REILLY: ONE IN THE BUILDING. ALL RIGHT. IF THEY

-- IF -- SO WHEN YOU SAY IT HAS TO BE PRACTICAL, DOES IT STATE WHAT

PRACTICAL MEANS IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE LAW -- OF THIS BILL?

MR. EPSTEIN: NO.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO SINCE "SHALL" IS INCLUDED, IT

-- IT OBLIGATES THE STATE BUILDINGS TO DO THAT, CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: IT OBLIGATES THE STATE AGENCIES TO --

TO FIND WITHIN THEIR -- THEIR BUILDINGS BATHROOMS THAT CAN BE CONVERTED

TO ALL-GENDER BATHROOMS.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO IF SOMEONE WALKS INTO A

103

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

STATE BUILDING --

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH.

MR. REILLY: -- AND NOW THEY DEEM THAT THERE

SHOULD BE A GENDER-NEUTRAL, WILL THAT "SHALL" NOW OPEN THE STATE UP TO

LAWSUITS FOR NOT CONVERTING A BATHROOM?

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU'RE SAYING SOMEONE WANTS TO SUE

THE STATE BECAUSE THE AGENCY DETERMINES THAT IT WASN'T PRACTICAL TO

CONVERT THAT BATHROOM?

MR. REILLY: POSSIBLY, YES.

MR. EPSTEIN: I MEAN -- I MEAN, ANYONE CAN SUE THE

STATE FOR ANYTHING, SO I DON'T -- I MEAN, ANY -- ANY PROVISION UNDER THE

LAW CAN BE SUED. BUT IF THE AGENCY HAS A REASON WHY THEY DIDN'T

CONVERT IT, THEY CAN JUST HAVE JUSTIFICATION FOR NOT DOING IT.

MR. REILLY: SO DO YOU -- HAVE YOU COME UP WITH A

LIST OF JUSTIFICATIONS THAT WOULD ALLOW THAT?

MR. EPSTEIN: HAVE I COME UP WITH A LIST?

MR. REILLY: YEAH.

MR. EPSTEIN: FOR THE STATE AGENCY?

MR. REILLY: WELL, WHAT -- WHAT'S YOUR VISION

ACCORDING TO THE BILL OF WHAT (INAUDIBLE/CROSSTALK).

MR. EPSTEIN: THERE IS GOING TO BE A DE MINIMUS

COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT. WE'RE NOT ASKING THE STATE AGENCY TO -- TO

SPEND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO CONVERT IT. WE'RE NOT ASKING THE AGENCY TO

BUILD NEW BATHROOMS. WE'RE ASKING THEM TO TAKE THE EXISTING

INFRASTRUCTURE THAT THEY HAVE AND TO ENSURE THAT IF PRACTICAL THEY CAN

104

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

HAVE AN ALL-GENDER BATHROOM AVAILABLE IN OUR GOVERNMENT BUILDING

THAT'S PUBLICLY AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED ALL-GENDER BATHROOMS.

MR. REILLY: IS THERE A LEGAL DEFINITION OF

"PRACTICAL" IN -- IN THE NEW YORK -- IN NEW YORK STATE LAW? THAT'S

WHAT I MEAN.

MR. EPSTEIN: I MEAN, THERE'S CASE LAW. I MEAN,

WHEN YOU SAY "DEFINITION", THERE ARE LOTS OF COURT CASES TO DECIDE

WHETHER IT'S PRACTICAL OR IT'S NOT. YOU KNOW, WHETHER THEY HAVE TO PUT A

RAMP IN, WHETHER THEY HAVE TO PUT -- YOU KNOW, MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE FOR

VISUALLY-IMPAIRED PEOPLE. THERE'S ALL THESE THINGS WHERE GOVERNMENT

HAS TO TAKE DUE -- YOU KNOW, TAKE EFFORTS TO MAKE THINGS ACCESSIBLE FOR

PEOPLE FOR ALL DIFFERENT REASONS THAT THERE'S CASE LAW AFTER CASE LAW

WHEN PEOPLE SUE THE CITY OR THE STATE TO TRY TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

MR. REILLY: HAS THERE BEEN ANY -- ANY ANALYSIS OF

FISCAL IMPACT?

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, WE THOUGHT IT WAS A MINIMAL

FISCAL IMPACT.

MR. REILLY: AND WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER MINIMAL?

MR. EPSTEIN: TAKING A SIGN OFF A DOOR AND PUTTING

A NEW SIGN ON.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU'RE WELCOME.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

105

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. EPSTEIN: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. RA: SO I SAW SOMEBODY BRING YOU SOMETHING.

DO YOU NOW HAVE THE STATUTE IN FRONT OF YOU, OR NO?

MR. EPSTEIN: THEY BROUGHT ME A SECTION OF THE

STATUTE, YES.

MR. RA: OKAY. BECAUSE I -- I THINK THAT MAKES IT

MUCH -- MUCH EASIER IF WE'RE BOTH LOOKING AT -- AT THE SAME THING.

SO I HAVE TWO CONCERNS HERE WITH WHAT YOU'RE TALKING

ABOUT. NUMBER -- NUMBER ONE BEING IF YOU READ, RIGHT, IF YOU READ THAT

IT SAYS, EACH STATE AGENCY SHALL ENSURE THAT ALL SINGLE-OCCUPANCY

BATHROOMS UNDER A JURISDICTION BEING DESIGNATED AS GENDER-NEUTRAL IN

STATE-OWNED -- OWNED BUILDINGS AND WHERE PRACTICABLE IN STATE-LEASED

BUILDINGS.

MR. EPSTEIN: RIGHT.

MR. RA: SO WOULD YOU AGREE NOW THAT THAT

PROVISION ONLY APPLIES TO A STATE-LEASED BUILDING AND THAT IN A

STATE-OWNED BUILDING THERE IS NO LANGUAGE EVEN WITH -- UNDER CURRENT

LAW OR IF THIS WERE TO BECOME LAW?

MR. EPSTEIN: IN SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS

YOU'RE SAYING?

MR. RA: YES.

MR. EPSTEIN: IN SINGLE OCC -- THE LAW ALREADY

106

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

EXISTS THAT SAYS IN SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS, IF THERE IS ONE, THEY'RE

REQUIRED IN A SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOM TO MAKE THAT AN ALL-GENDER

BATHROOM.

MR. RA: BUT I'M SAYING WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THE --

THE WHERE PRACTICABLE LANGUAGE ONLY APPLIES IN A STATE-LEASED BUILDING,

NOT IN A STATE-OWNED BUILDING?

MR. EPSTEIN: FOR SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS?

MR. RA: FOR SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS.

MR. EPSTEIN: FOR SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS,

THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO -- BUT YOU'RE -- YOU'RE -- AND

CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG OR I'M MISUNDERSTANDING YOU, YOU WERE

REPRESENTING THAT UNDER THIS BILL, IF IT WERE TO BECOME LAW, THAT THAT

LANGUAGE WOULD APPLY. THAT'S NOT CORRECT.

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU'RE SAYING THAT --

MR. RA: I'M SAYING THAT IF -- IF SUBSECTION 3, WHICH

YOU'RE CREATING UNDER THIS BILL, WERE TO BECOME LAW, THAT WHERE

PRACTICAL LANGUAGE, REGARDLESS, DOESN'T APPLY TO IT.

MR. EPSTEIN: YOU'RE SAYING BECAUSE IN SECTION 2 IT

SAYS FOR SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS?

MR. RA: YES.

MR. EPSTEIN: AND YOU -- AND --

MR. RA: AND THE STATUTORY LANGUAGE UNDER THIS BILL,

SUB 3 SAYS IF NO SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOM CAN BE DESIGNATED AS

GENDER-NEUTRAL IN A STATE-OWNED BUILDING, A MULTIPLE-OCCUPANCY

107

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

BATHROOM SHALL BE DESIGNATED AS GENDER-NEUTRAL INSTEAD. I DON'T SEE

ANY WAY THAT THAT WHERE PRACTICAL LANGUAGE COULD APPLY TO THAT

PROVISION. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WHERE PRACTICAL LANGUAGE APPLIES TO

THAT PROVISION?

MR. EPSTEIN: I DO.

MR. RA: HOW?

MR. EPSTEIN: BECAUSE IT'S BASICALLY SAYING THAT IT'S

MR. RA: IT DOESN'T REFERENCE SUBSECTION 2. IT DOESN'T

SAY -- I MEAN, IT'S A -- IT'S A SEPARATE -- IT'S A SEPARATE LINE. IT -- THERE'S --

THERE -- IT -- AND AGAIN, SUBSECTION 2 ALREADY DOES NOT APPLY, I THINK WE

JUST AGREED, IN A LEASE -- IN A OWNED -- STATE-OWNED BUILDING, ONLY IN A

LEASED BUILDING. SO HOW COULD IT APPLY TO THAT PROVISION?

MR. EPSTEIN: SO SECTION 2 SAYS IN SINGLE-

OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS IN A STATE-OWNED BUILDING.

MR. RA: YES.

MR. EPSTEIN: AND WE'RE JUST SAYING IN A

STATE-OWNED BUILDING WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE SINGLE-OCCUPANCY

BATHROOMS, THE MULTIPLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS CAN BE DESIGNATED

GENDER-NEUTRAL BATHROOMS.

MR. RA: YES, I -- I -- I AGREE. BUT -- BUT THE POINT

AGAIN IS THE WHERE PRACTICABLE FROM SUBSECTION 2, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT

IT'S FOR A STATE-LEASED BUILDING, WHICH MAKES SENSE, RIGHT? YOU'RE

LEASING IT, YOU MAY NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE, YOU KNOW, PHYSICAL

CHANGES TO THE BUILDING SO I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE REASON WHY THAT'S

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

IN THE CURRENT LAW. BUT THAT'S -- I DON'T SEE HOW IT COULD APPLY TO THE --

TO THE NEW PROVISION THAT'S JUST TALKING ABOUT STATE-OWNED BUILDINGS,

RIGHT? YOUR -- YOUR NEW SECTION 3 --

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH.

MR. RA: -- JUST TALKS ABOUT IN A STATE-OWNED

BUILDING. IT DOESN'T TALK ABOUT LEASED BUILDINGS, CORRECT?

MR. EPSTEIN: IT SAYS IN -- IN SINGLE-USE WOULD BE

DESIGNATED AS GENDER-NEUTRAL IN STATE-OWNED BUILDINGS.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO I DON'T KNOW, WE MAY HAVE TO --

I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR THE POINT. MAYBE WE'LL HAVE TO AGREE TO

DISAGREE, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY WAY THAT THESE TWO PROVISIONS -- AND --

AND AGAIN, JUST FOR THE RECORD I WANT TO -- I'LL -- I'LL READ IT AGAIN. THE

CURRENT LAW, SECTION 1 -- THIS IS 145 OF THE GENERAL -- WHAT IS IT CALLED,

THE GENERAL -- THE PUBLIC BUILDINGS LAW. EACH STATE AGENCY SHALL

ENSURE THAT ALL SINGLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOMS UNDER ITS JURISDICTION BE

DESIGNATED AS GENDER-NEUTRAL IN STATE-OWNED BUILDINGS, AND WHERE

PRACTICABLE IN STATE-LEASED BUILDINGS. THIS NOW ADDS, AND IT, YOU

KNOW, IT CHANGES THE -- THE HEADER TO GENDER-NEUTRAL, IT TAKES OUT THE

TERM "SINGLE-OCCUPANCY" AT THE TOP, PUTS IN A NEW DEFINITION OF

MULTIPLE OCCUPANCY. BUT THEN SECTION 3 SAYS OF YOUR BILL, IF NO SINGLE-

OCCUPANCY BATHROOM CAN BE DESIGNATED AS GENDER-NEUTRAL IN A STATE-

OWNED BUILDING, A MULTIPLE-OCCUPANCY BATHROOM SHALL BE DESIGNATED

AS GENDER-NEUTRAL INSTEAD. I DON'T UNDERSTAND --

AND MADAM SPEAKER, I'M ON -- I'M ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MR. RA: I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THOSE TWO PIECES

COULD -- COULD FIT TOGETHER OR HOW THERE COULD BE ANY READING OF THIS

BILL AND EXISTING LAW TOGETHER THAT THAT WHERE PRACTICABLE WOULD

MODIFY THE PROVISION OF SUBSECTION 3 IN THE NEW BILL. SO I -- I THINK WE

HAVE TO BE CLEAR ABOUT OUR INTENTION WITH REGARD TO THIS AND JUST WHAT

THE LAW IS GOING TO STATE. WE CAN -- THERE MAY BE DISAGREEMENT IN THIS

CHAMBER WHETHER THIS IS NECESSARY, WHETHER IT IS COSTLY, ALL OF THOSE

DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT THAT LANGUAGE IS CLEAR IN THE EXISTING LAW THAT IT

APPLIES TO A STATE-LEASED BUILDING WHERE PRACTICABLE, AND IN THE STATE-

OWNED BUILDING IT'S A MANDATE. IT HAS TO BE DONE.

SO I -- I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND

THAT AS WE'RE VOTING ON -- ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. THANK YOU,

MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION, BUT IF YOU WANT TO VOTE YES, PLEASE DO SO NOW AT YOUR SEAT.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME THAT DESIRE TO BE

AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. EPSTEIN: YES, THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I

RISE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. SO WE ARE HERE IN THE GREAT STATE OF NEW

YORK AND WE HAVE SO MANY NEW YORKERS WHO COME TO OUR CAPITOL

AND OUR LOB, LOOKING TO FULLY GET INVOLVED IN CIVICS, UNDERSTAND THE

WAY GOVERNMENT WORKS, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS BUILDING AND

ALL GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS ARE AVAILABLE AND ACCESSIBLE FOR ALL NEW

YORKERS, AND JUST THE BATHROOM IS JUST A PIECE OF IT. AND I ENCOURAGE

MY COLLEAGUES TO SUPPORT THIS BILL FOR THE RIGHTS OF ALL NEW YORKERS

WHO COME HERE.

I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE

THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, DO YOU

HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WE HAVE NO

HOUSEKEEPING. WE HAVE A FEW PIECES OF RESOLUTIONS BEFORE THE HOUSE.

WITHOUT OBJECTION, THESE RESOLUTIONS WILL BE TAKEN UP TOGETHER.

ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 266 AND 267

WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: WOULD YOU CALL ON MRS.

[SIC] CLARK FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. CLARK FOR THE

PURPOSES OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. AN

UNEXPECTED ANNOUNCEMENT. THERE IS NO NEED FOR A MAJORITY

CONFERENCE TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

AGAIN, THERE WILL BE NO CONFERENCE -- MAJORITY

CONFERENCE FOLLOWING SESSION.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: NO MAJORITY

CONFERENCE FOLLOWING SESSION.

(APPLAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

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NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 26, 2025

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, I NOW

MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT

10:00 A.M. --

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: QUIET, PLEASE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: AND THAT WE RECONVENE

AT 10:00 A.M., THURSDAY, MARCH THE 27TH, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON MRS. PEOPLES-

STOKES' MOTION, THE HOUSE STANDS ADJOURNED.

(WHEREUPON, AT 3:56 P.M., THE HOUSE STOOD ADJOURNED

UNTIL THURSDAY, MARCH 27TH AT 10:00 A.M., THAT BEING A SESSION DAY.)

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