THURSDAY, MARCH 27, 2025 11:04 A.M.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE HOUSE WILL

COME TO ORDER.

GOOD MORNING, COLLEAGUES.

IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

SILENCE.

(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF

ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY, MARCH 26TH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, I MOVE

TO DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY,

MARCH THE 26TH AND THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WITHOUT OBJECTION,

SO ORDERED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM.

COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN OUR CHAMBERS TODAY, I WOULD LIKE TO

SHARE A QUOTE. THIS ONE COMES FROM ROSA PARKS. MANY OF US HAVE

HEARD HER NAME BEFORE. SHE WAS A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. HER WORDS FOR

US TODAY: WHEN WE FAIL -- WE WILL FAIL WHEN WE FAIL TO TRY. WE WILL FAIL

WHEN WE FAIL TO TRY. AGAIN, THESE WORDS FROM ROSA PARKS.

COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESKS A MAIN CALENDAR.

BEFORE WE DO ANY HOUSEKEEPING OR INTRODUCTIONS WE'LL BE CALLING FOR

THE FOLLOWING COMMITTEES TO MEET OFF THE FLOOR: WAYS AND MEANS

FOLLOWED BY RULES. THESE COMMITTEES ARE GOING TO PRODUCE AN

A-CALENDAR OF WHICH WE WILL TAKE UP TODAY. COLLEAGUES, IT'S ACTUALLY

THE BEGINNING PROCESS OF OUR STATE BUDGET TODAY. WE'RE GONNA START

WITH THE DEBT SERVICE BILL, AND ONCE WE RECEIVE THAT A-CALENDAR WE

WILL BE MOVING FORWARD WITH IT. WE WILL BEGIN OUR FLOOR WORK TODAY,

HOWEVER, MADAM CHAIR, WITH CALENDAR RESOLUTIONS. THEY'RE ON PAGE

3. AND THERE MAY BE A NEED TO ANNOUNCE FURTHER ACTIVITY, BUT FOR SURE

THERE WILL BE A MAJORITY CONFERENCE AT THE END OF OUR SESSION TODAY.

THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE, MADAM SPEAKER. IF WE CAN

BEGIN NOW BY CALLING THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S

CONFERENCE ROOM. THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU. WAYS

AND MEANS COMMITTEE IMMEDIATELY TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE

ROOM. WAYS AND MEANS TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

WE HAVE NO HOUSEKEEPING AND NO INTRODUCTIONS.

RESOLUTIONS, PAGE 3, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 268, MS.

GLICK.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MARCH 30, 2025, AS A [SIC] DAY OF ZERO

WASTE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 269, MR.

EACHUS.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MARCH 30, 2025, AS DOCTORS' DAY IN THE

STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 270, MR. K.

BROWN.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 2, 2025, AS CUSTODIAL WORKER'S

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

RECOGNITION DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, COULD

YOU PUT THE HOUSE AT EASE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON MRS. PEOPLES-

STOKES' MOTION, THE HOUSE STANDS AT EASE.

(WHEREUPON, AT 11:08 A.M., THE HOUSE STOOD AT EASE.)

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE HOUSE WILL

COME TO ORDER.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, EACH

MEMBER HAS AN A-CALENDAR ON THEIR DESKS. I'D LIKE TO MOVE TO

ADVANCE THAT CALENDAR.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MA'AM. WE

WILL NOW TAKE THAT BILL UP IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

PAGE 3, RULES REPORT NO. 118, THE CLERK WILL READ.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03002, RULES REPORT

NO. 118, BUDGET BILL. AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE LEGAL

REQUIREMENTS OF THE STATE DEBT SERVICE AND LEASE PURCHASE PAYMENTS

AND OTHER SPECIAL CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. PRETLOW.

MR. PRETLOW: YES, MADAM SPEAKER, AND GOOD

MORNING, MY -- MY COLLEAGUES. TODAY NOT ONLY IS THE OPENING DAY FOR

THE BASEBALL SEASON - GO YANKEES, GO METS - IT'S ALSO THE OPENING DAY

FOR OUR BUDGET SEASON. THIS IS THE FIRST OF 11 BILLS, AND IT'S THE DEBT --

IT'S OUR -- IT'S US PAYING OUR BILLS. SO TODAY BEFORE US WE HAVE OUR FIRST

BUDGET BILL. THIS YEAR -- THIS YEAR'S DEBT SERVICE BILL PROVIDES FOR

$10.7 BILLION IN APPROPRIATIONS TO SUPPORT DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS

TOTALING $2.3 BILLION FOR THE STATE FISCAL YEAR '25-'26. THESE PAYMENTS

ARE ESTIMATED TO DECREASE BY $845 MILLION FROM THE PRIOR YEAR, AND WILL

REMAIN IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LIMITATIONS SET FORTH BY THE DEBT

REFORM ACT OF 2000. THIS BILL IS NECESSARY FOR THE STATE TO MAKE

LEGALLY-REQUIRED DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS ON OUTSTANDING BONDS AND NEW

STATE-SUPPORTED BOND ISSUANCES.

AS MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES KNOW, THE APPROPRIATIONS

CONTAINED IN THIS BILL PAYS FOR THE STATE'S GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS,

PERSONAL INCOME TAX, REVENUE BONDS, LEASE PURCHASE AGREEMENTS,

SPECIAL CONTRACTUAL PAYMENTS AND OTHER SPECIAL CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS

TO PUBLIC AUTHORITIES. DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS TO SUPPORT $65.1 BILLION

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

IN OUTSTANDING DEBT AND ALLOWS THE STATE TO SUSTAIN TRANSPORTATION

INFRASTRUCTURE, STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK, CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW

YORK AND OTHER EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS

AS WELL AS HOUSING AND PARK INITIATIVES ACROSS THE STATE. IN ADDITION,

TOTAL DEBT OUTSTANDING IS EXPECTED TO REMAIN UNDER THE STATUTORY DEBT

CAP FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026 AND THROUGHOUT THE FIVE-YEAR CAPITAL PLAN.

WITH THAT, MADAM SPEAKER, I AM GLAD TO ASK -- TO

ANSWER ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS REGARDING THE STATE'S OBLIGATION TO PAY

ITS BILLS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

WILL CHAIR PRETLOW YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE CHAIR

YIELD?

MR. PRETLOW: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CHAIR YIELDS.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT

EXPLANATION. AND -- AND I SHARE YOUR OPTIMISM FOR OPENING DAY AS

WELL AS THE OPENING DAY OF OUR -- OF OUR BUDGET. HOPEFULLY END OF OUR

BUDGET PROCESS. I -- I THINK MR. FARRELL USED TO CALL IT THE -- THE END OF

THE BEGINNING WHEN WE WOULD TAKE UP THIS -- THIS BILL. OBVIOUSLY IT'S

SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO BEFORE OUR FISCAL YEAR CLOSES OUT, AND I WANT

TO GET INTO SOME OF, YOU KNOW, THE PAYMENTS IN THIS AND OUR OVERALL

STATUS OF OUR STATE'S DEBT.

BUT JUST MORE GENERALLY, CAN YOU GIVE ME A SENSE OF

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

WHERE WE ARE AS WE ARE HERE ON THURSDAY? YOU KNOW, MONDAY IS -- AT

THE END OF THE DAY WILL CLOSE OUT OUR CURRENT FISCAL YEAR. WHERE ARE WE

IN THE PROCESS IN TERMS OF US GETTING AN ON-TIME BUDGET?

MR. PRETLOW: WELL, THE -- WITH REGARD TO AN

ON-TIME BUDGET, THIS IS THE FIRST STEP IN THAT PROCESS. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR

THE OTHER TEN BILLS, I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR THE BILL BEFORE US, AND WE'RE

DOING THAT TODAY, THREE DAYS EARLY.

MR. RA: SOUNDS GOOD. DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT WHEN

WE COME BACK HERE ON TUESDAY -- AS WE KNOW, THERE'S A HOLIDAY ON

MONDAY, SO WHEN WE COME BACK ON TUESDAY THAT WE WILL BE ACTING ON

MANY OF THE OTHER NINE BUDGET BILLS WE'D LIKE TO SEE, OR IS IT GONNA BE

AN EXTENSION SITUATION?

MR. PRETLOW: THAT IS MY SUPREME DESIRE. I

PREPARED TO STAY HERE THIS WEEKEND AND WORK THROUGH THE WEEKEND TO

ENSURE THAT WE HAVE AN ON-TIME BUDGET NEXT TUESDAY. I AM OPTIMISTIC,

BUT I -- SOMETIMES I'M CONSIDERED OVERLY OPTIMISTIC.

MR. RA: NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING OPTIMISTIC. AS

-- AS A MET [SIC] FAN, THIS IS THE MOST OPTIMISTIC DAY WE HAVE EVERY YEAR

USUALLY.

(LAUGHTER)

SO -- SO I'LL SHARE YOUR OPTIMISM.

SO, ONE LAST THING JUST ABOUT THE GENERAL STATUS OF

THINGS. DO -- DO WE HAVE ANY SENSE JUST OF A -- A TOTAL NUMBER THAT THIS

BUDGET IS GOING TO SPEND IN TERMS OF DOLLARS ONCE ALL IS SAID AND DONE?

MR. PRETLOW: THE GENERAL CAPITAL SPENDING,

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

$21.2 BILLION. WE'RE TALKING TO DEBT ISSUANCE, WHICH WOULD BE $9.9

BILLION.

MR. RA: WELL, I MEAN IN TERMS OF THE TOTAL BUDGET.

MR. PRETLOW: OH, THAT'S BEING NEGOTIATED. I

MEAN, THE -- THE ORIGINAL WAS 257 BILLION, I BELIEVE, IN TOTAL

EXPENDITURES FOR THE STATE BUT THAT'S STILL UNDER NEGOTIATIONS.

MR. RA: OKAY. WELL, WE WILL LOOK FORWARD TO ONE --

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WILL GET TIRED OF HEARING ME ASK AS WE'RE

GOING THROUGH THOSE BILLS IS DO WE HAVE A FINANCIAL PLAN UNTIL -- UNTIL

WE FINALLY GET (INAUDIBLE/CROSSTALK).

MR. PRETLOW: WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE A FINANCIAL

PLAN, MR. RA.

MR. RA: WELL, NOT --

MR. PRETLOW: WE ACTUALLY HAVE FIVE YEARS.

MR. RA: NOT FOR AN ENACTED BUDGET, WE DO NOT YET.

I DO -- I DO WANT TO LASTLY SAY, YOU KNOW, WE TAKE UP

THIS BILL A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE DEADLINE. AS YOU MENTIONED, IT'S AN --

IT'S AN IMPORTANT BILL. IT'S ONE THAT'S USUALLY UNCHANGED FROM THE

EXECUTIVE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE HAVE TO PAY TO -- TO MEET OUR

OBLIGATIONS TO THESE BONDHOLDERS IS -- IS REALLY WHAT WE HAVE TO PAY TO

MEET OUR OBLIGATION TO THESE BONDHOLDERS. BUT IT IS A BUDGET BILL, WE'RE

DOING IT IN THE LIGHT OF DAY. IT'S BEEN IN PRINT FOR ACTUALLY SEVERAL

MONTHS NOW, SO IT IS A TRANSPARENT ACTION BY THIS LEGISLATURE AND I HOPE

WE CONTINUE TO SEE THAT AS WE GET THROUGH THIS PROCESS. AND I WOULD

REITERATE OUR DESIRE TO BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION, AND FEEL FREE TO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

INVITE US INTO NEGOTIATIONS AND HELP -- HELP, YOU KNOW, REACH FINAL

COMPROMISES ON SOME OF THESE OUTSTANDING ISSUES THAT ARE -- THAT ARE

BEING DISCUSSED.

SO, IN TERMS OF DEBT SERVICE AS WE MOVE ON TO THE

SPECIFICS, I WOULD NOTE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BEING ASKED TO START VOTING ON

A BUDGET BILL TODAY. WE DON'T HAVE AN ENACTED FINANCIAL PLAN OR FULL

SPENDING PLAN, A FULL IDEA OF THE REVENUES THAT ARE COMING IN, AND WE

DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GONNA SEE IN THE REMAINING BILLS. IT'S ALWAYS

MY DESIRE THAT WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE ALL THAT INFORMATION

BEFORE WE -- WE VOTE ON BILLS. LIKE I SAID, THE TRANSPARENCY THAT THAT

GIVES BOTH TO THE LEGISLATURE, TO THE PUBLIC, I THINK IS IMPORTANT.

BUT GETTING INTO THE DEBT SERVICE BILL ITSELF. SO YOU

SAID THIS BILL APPROPRIATES $10.7 BILLION?

MR. PRETLOW: CORRECT.

MR. RA: AND -- AND THE ENACTED FINANCIAL PLAN WE

BELIEVE WILL ASSUME $2.3 BILLION IN CASH DEBT SERVICE?

MR. PRETLOW: YES.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND THE YEAR-TO-YEAR DIFFERENCE IN

TERMS OF THE -- THE APPROPRIATION AND THE CASH?

MR. PRETLOW: THE 845- -- NO, I'M SORRY, 2.8

BILLION.

MR. RA: AND THEN THE 845- IS THE DIFFERENCE IN THE

CASH PAYMENT?

MR. PRETLOW: YES.

MR. RA: THANK YOU. SO, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

WE'VE SEEN IN OBVIOUSLY OTHER PARTS OF THE BUDGET DO IMPACT OUR -- OUR

DEBT. THE GOVERNOR PROPOSED A SIX-ROUND OF SHORT-TERM LIQUIDITY

FINANCING OF $3 BILLION, AND THE DEBT SERVICE BILL BEFORE US TODAY HAS

APPROPRIATION AUTHORITY TO COVER THE COST OF THIS SHORT-TERM FINANCING

OPTION. I -- I THINK BOTH MAJORITIES HERE, THE SENATE, REJECTED THAT

PROPOSAL. DO WE THINK IT'S STILL NECESSARY? IS IT SOMETHING THAT YOU

THINK IS GOING TO BE IN THE FINAL BUDGET?

MR. PRETLOW: WELL, WE HOPE IT'S NOT, THAT'S WHY

WE REJECTED IT. BUT THE GOVERNOR IS IN CONTROL OF THE BUDGET, AS YOU

WELL KNOW.

MR. RA: DO YOU KNOW IF IN THE SHORT-TERM THE

DEPARTMENT OF BUDGET HAS ANY PLANS TO ISSUE ANY OF THE SHORT-TERM

DEBT THAT'S PREVIOUSLY BEEN AUTHORIZED?

MR. PRETLOW: NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND THE GOVERNOR ACTUALLY WENT A

STEP FURTHER IN HER PROPOSAL TO MAKE THAT SHORT-TERM LIQUIDITY FINANCING

PERMANENT. I -- I THINK YOU SHARE THE CONCERNS, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT

JUSTIFICATION THERE WOULD BE FOR MAKING THAT PERMANENT IF -- IF YOU

KNOW OF ONE OR WHY THE GOVERNOR DESIRES THAT PERMANENT AUTHORITY.

MR. PRETLOW: I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHY SHE WANTS

IT. AS I SAID EARLIER, BOTH HOUSES HAD REJECTED THAT AND -- BECAUSE WE

DON'T THINK THAT IT'S THE DIRECTION THAT WE WANT TO GO IN. BUT IF THE -- IT'S

VERY POSSIBLE THAT IT STAYS IN THE BUDGET, BECAUSE AS I EXPLAINED TO

MANY OF MY NEWER COLLEAGUES ABOUT PATAKI V. SILVER AND WHAT

AUTHORITY WE HAVE OVER THE OVERALL BUDGET.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

MR. RA: SO, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE STATE HAS

DONE IN RECENT YEARS IS MADE DEBT PRE-PAYMENTS. ACCORDING TO THE

COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE, IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS WE'VE -- WE'VE MADE ABOUT

$22 BILLION WHICH PROVIDE NEAR-TERM SAVINGS TO REDUCE BUDGET GAPS.

THE COMPTROLLER, THOUGH, HAS EXPRESSED SOME CONCERN THAT THESE

ACTIONS PREVENT RECURRING DEBT BURDEN RELIEF AND LONG-TERM SAVINGS, AS

THE PREPAYMENTS TYPICALLY DON'T REDUCE OUR INTEREST COSTS AND MAY BE

ARTIFICIALLY REDUCED YEAR-OVER-YEAR GROWTH IN BOTH DEBT SERVICE AND

OVERALL SPENDING. DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHETHER YOU -- YOU

BELIEVE THIS IS -- THESE PRE-PAYMENTS ARE HURTING OR HELPING THE STATE

DEAL WITH OUR LONG-TERM DEBT?

MR. PRETLOW: WELL, YOU'RE TALKING TOTAL DEBT

RETIREMENT FOR THIS YEAR IS ESTIMATED TO BE ABOUT $1.5 BILLION, WHICH IS

AN INCREASE OF $869 MILLION OR A 146.3 PERCENT INCREASE FROM LAST FISCAL

YEAR. YOU KNOW, THIS INCREASE IS PRIMARILY DUE TO PRIOR PAYMENTS, AND

I BELIEVE IN PREPAYING BILLS. I THINK IT'S -- EVEN THOUGH -- EVEN IF WE'RE

NOT SAVING THAT MUCH IN INTEREST COSTS TO GET THE BILLS OR TO GET THE

OVERALL DEBT DOWN IS ALWAYS HELPFUL.

MR. RA: DO WE HAVE ANY SENSE HOW THE -- YOU

KNOW, IN RECENT YEARS WE'VE OBVIOUSLY HAD -- WE HAD -- WE HAD INTEREST

RATES VERY LOW FOR A WHILE, THEN WE HAD THE INFLATION AND INTEREST RATES

COMING UP, HOW -- HOW SOME OF THOSE ISSUES HAVE IMPACTED OUR -- OUR

DEBT BURDEN AND -- AND OUR, YOU KNOW, OUR MIX OF -- OF PRINCIPAL AND

INTEREST THAT WE'RE PAYING ON OUR DEBT?

(PAUSE)

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

MR. PRETLOW: I'M BEING TOLD THAT IF THERE'S DEBT

ISSUANCE IS ACTUALLY REMAINING STABLE BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE BORROWING ON

ONE HAND AND WE'RE PAYING ON THE -- ON THE OTHER. SO THE OVERALL DEBTS

REMAIN THE SAME, IF NOT GOING DOWN.

MR. RA: OKAY. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE DEBT

SERVICE IN THIS BILL IS GOING TOWARDS PRINCIPAL AND HOW MUCH GOES

TOWARDS INTEREST?

MR. PRETLOW: I DO KNOW THE INTEREST IS...

(PAUSE)

OKAY. THE INTEREST IS $855 MILLION AND THE PRINCIPAL

IS $1.483 BILLION.

MR. RA: SO IT'S --

MR. PRETLOW: KNOCK OFF THREE ZEROS ON BOTH OF

THOSE NUMBERS.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. RA: SO I -- SO ROUGHLY A LITTLE LESS THAN

TWO-THIRDS, ONE-THIRD.

MR. PRETLOW: YES. SIXTY-THREE -- IT'S ACTUALLY

63.11 PERCENT PRINCIPAL AND 36.89 PERCENT INTEREST.

MR. RA: AND DO YOU -- DO YOU KNOW HOW THAT

COMPARES TO THE -- TO THE RECENT PAST? IS THAT -- IS THAT ABOUT ON PAR OR

IS IT -- IS IT MORE 50/50?

MR. PRETLOW: IT'S ABOUT WHAT WE'VE -- WE'VE BEEN

DOING, BUT WE HAVE BEEN DECREASING OUR OVERALL DEBT OVER THE PAST FEW

YEARS.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

MR. RA: OKAY. MY -- MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WAS

KIND OF MORE OF A MAJORITY OF IT GOING TOWARDS INTEREST LAST YEAR AS

OPPOSED TO PRINCIPAL. SO DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHAT -- WHAT MAY

HAVE CHANGED IN -- IN THE LAST FISCAL YEAR TO -- TO MAKE THE BALANCE

DIFFERENT?

MR. PRETLOW: WELL, IT MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO

WITH THE PREPAYMENTS THAT WE MADE. THOSE PREPAYMENTS GENERALLY GO

AGAINST -- AGAINST THE INTEREST.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND THEN I WANT TO GET INTO JUST OUR

OVERALL DEBT PICTURE OF OUR STATE. THE GOVERNOR PROJECTED THE TOTAL

OUTSTANDING DEBT TO BE $65.1 BILLION IN THE EXECUTIVE PROPOSAL. HAVE

BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS COME TO ANY AGREEMENT ON HOW MUCH THE TOTAL

OUTSTANDING DEBT WILL BE PROJECTED TO BE FOR THE 2026 FISCAL YEAR?

MR. PRETLOW: NO, NOT AT -- NOT AT THIS POINT

BECAUSE WE'RE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF -- OF NEGOTIATING THE -- THE REST OF

THE STATE BUDGET, AND WHEN -- AT THE END OF THIS PROCESS THE WHOLE

THING WILL COME TOGETHER AND WE WILL HAVE AN ACCURATE NUMBER FOR

YOU.

MR. RA: OKAY. MY -- MY UNDERSTANDING IS AS WE

LOOK INTO, YOU KNOW, THE OUT-YEARS WE'RE PROJECTING TO HAVE DEBT

OUTSTANDING OF $96.3 BILLION AS WE GET INTO FISCAL YEAR 2030 --

MR. PRETLOW: RIGHT.

MR. RA: -- WHICH IS A FEW YEARS IN THE FUTURE, RIGHT?

THAT'S AN ACCURATE NUMBER?

MR. PRETLOW: THAT'S ACCURATE. IT'S 56.7 BILLION

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

NOW, AND WE TAKE IT OUT TO 2030, IT'S 95.6 BILLION.

MR. RA: NOW, I YOU -- YOU MAY NOT KNOW THIS, BUT

DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY STATES HAVE TOTAL STATE BUDGETS THAT ARE LESS

THAN THAT NUMBER?

MR. PRETLOW: I'M REALLY ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT

NEW YORK STATE'S BUDGET, AND WHAT OTHER -- OTHER STATES DO WITH THEIR

FINANCES I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY INTEREST IN EVEN STUDYING.

MR. RA: WELL, IN CASE YOU'RE INTERESTED --

(LAUGHTER)

-- THERE ARE 43 STATES THAT HAVE STATE BUDGETS LESS THAN

THAT $96 BILLION.

MR. PRETLOW: BUT THEY'RE TINY STATES. THIS IS THE

EMPIRE STATE --

MR. RA: IT IS THE EMPIRE STATE.

MR. PRETLOW: -- AND WE ARE ONE OF THE LARGER

STATES. WE HAVE THE POPULATION, WE HAVE AN EXTREMELY HIGH PERSONAL

INCOME TAX TOTAL WHICH OUR -- OUR DEBT CAP IS BASED ON, SO WE HAVE THE

CAPACITY FOR THAT. WE'RE WELL UNDER THAT -- THAT DEBT CAP RIGHT NOW --

MR. RA: YEAH, SO LET'S -- SO LET'S GET INTO --

(INAUDIBLE/CROSSTALK).

MR. PRETLOW: AND WE DO THE BEST WE CAN --

MR. RA: -- WITH REGARD TO THE DEBT CAP.

MR. PRETLOW: CAN I FINISH -- MR. RA, CAN I FINISH

MY --

MR. RA: PLEASE.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

MR. PRETLOW: YOU CAN GO.

MR. RA: NO, GO AHEAD.

MR. PRETLOW: I'M ON YOUR TIME, YOU GO.

MR. RA: WELL, I WAS GONNA ASK YOU, YOU MENTIONED

THE DEBT CAP. SO HOW MUCH ROOM DO WE HAVE OUTSTANDING UNDER THE

CAP FOR -- FOR THIS FISCAL YEAR?

MR. PRETLOW: HOW MUCH ROOM DO WE HAVE?

MR. RA: YUP.

MR. PRETLOW: IN THIS FISCAL YEAR WE HAVE $25.1

BILLION, AND IF YOU'LL SPREAD THAT OUT TO 2030 WE HAVE 441 MILLION.

MR. RA: IS THAT -- THAT WHEN WE GET THE CLOSEST TO THE

CAP IN THE OUT-YEARS?

MR. PRETLOW: YES, THAT'S THE CLOSEST WE GET.

NEXT YEAR IT'S 19.3 BILLION, THE YEAR AFTER THAT'S 12.3 BILLION, THEN 7.1

BILLION, AND THEN 2.9 BILLION OF REMAINING CAP AVAILABLE.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND DO YOU KNOW -- I -- OVER, I

BELIEVE, MAYBE TWO OR THREE BUDGET YEARS DURING THE PANDEMIC WE HAD

SOME DEBT THAT OUR -- OUR PRIOR GOVERNOR HAD EXCLUDED FROM THE CAP.

DO -- DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT OUTSTANDING NUMBER IS?

MR. PRETLOW: I THINK IT'S 13- -- WHAT, IT -- IT

STARTED OUT AT 13. BILLION -- 13.8 BILLION OVER THE -- THE CAP, AND BY

2030 IT'LL BE 13.1 BILLION. BUT THAT'S OFF -- THAT'S NOT PART OF THE CAP, AND

IT HAD IT DO WITH THE EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING

COVID-19.

MR. RA: BUT IF -- IF THAT HAD BEEN UNDER THE CAP, WE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

-- WE WOULD BE EXCEEDING IT, CORRECT?

MR. PRETLOW: IF THAT HAD BEEN, BUT IT WASN'T.

MR. RA: OKAY. AS YOU KNOW, THE -- THE LAST FEW

YEARS WE HAVE -- AND -- AND I MAY GET INTO THIS LATER -- OUR FORMER

COLLEAGUE, I REREAD A LOT OF THE PRIOR, YOU KNOW, DEBT SERVICE DEBATES

AND OUR FORMER COLLEAGUE WHO WAS VERY FOND OF THE NEW YORK STATE

CONSTITUTION GOT INTO SOME OF THE BACK-DOOR BORROWING AND HOW MUCH

OF OUR DEBT IS ACTUALLY APPROVED BY THE VOTERS OF NEW YORK STATE IN

ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS REQUIRING THAT. BUT

WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF DEBT ISSUANCE THAT HAVE GONE OUT TO THE VOTERS

IN RECENT YEARS. A FEW YEARS BACK WE HAD THE SCHOOL BOND ONE, AND

MOST RECENTLY WE HAD IN 2022 THE VOTERS APPROVED A $4.2 BILLION

ENVIRONMENTAL BOND ACT. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH OF THAT $4.2

BILLION THE STATE HAS BORROWED SO FAR?

MR. PRETLOW: ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT -- ARE YOU

REFERRING TO WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO AS BACK-DOOR BORROWING?

MR. RA: NO, THE -- UNDER THE ENVIRONMENTAL BOND

ACT THAT WE APPROVED -- THAT THE TAXPAYERS APPROVED BACK IN 2022.

MR. PRETLOW: I THINK IT'S ABOUT 165 BILLION.

MR. RA: THAT -- THAT HAS BEEN BORROWED SO FAR?

MR. PRETLOW: I THINK YOUR BUZZER'S GOING OFF.

MR. RA: IT DID?

MR. PRETLOW: YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES, GO AHEAD.

MR. RA: NO, I --

MR. PRETLOW: I'M MULTITASKING, I'M DOING HER JOB

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

AND HER JOB AND MY JOB, YOU KNOW?

MR. RA: NO, I'M TAKING A SECOND 15. THANK YOU.

DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH HAS BEEN ALLOCATED BY -- BY

THAT PROGRAM?

MR. PRETLOW: I DO NOT HAVE THAT NUMBER, BUT I

WILL BE SURE TO GET IT TO YOU.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHAT

THE DEBT SERVICE COST WILL BE ONCE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN ALLO -- OR

HAVE BORROWING THAT MONEY UNDER THAT ACT?

MR. PRETLOW: I'M NOT SURE. I DO NOT KNOW. NO, I

DON'T.

MR. RA: OKAY. NOW, I -- I DID -- I TALKED ABOUT

BACK-DOOR BORROWING, WHICH, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF OUR DEBT AND -- AND

MAYBE YOU HAVE A NUMBER. DO -- DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH OF THAT DEBT

OUTSTANDING NUMBER HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE VOTERS IN NEW YORK

STATE?

MR. PRETLOW: WELL, MR. RA, I -- I HAVE TO

DISAGREE WITH YOUR TERM OF "BACK-DOOR BORROWING" BECAUSE IT'S -- IT

COLLUDES TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT THE VOTERS DID NOT VOTE ON THESE

DEBT ISSUANCES. AND I HAVE TO REMIND YOU THAT WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC

AND NOT A TRUE DEMOCRACY, AND THE 150 MEMBERS OF THIS LEGISLATURE

REPRESENT THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND OUR VOTES COUNT AS

THEIR VOTES TOWARDS THE BETTERANCE OF THIS STATE. SO IT'S NOT REALLY NON-

VOTER-APPROVED. THE VOTERS ARE APPROVING OF THESE ISSUANCES BY US.

MR. RA: OKAY. BUT DO YOU KNOW HOW -- HOW MUCH

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

OF THAT OUTSTANDING DEBT WAS VOTED ON BY --

MR. PRETLOW: BY US?

MR. RA: -- THE ENTIRE ELECTORATE OF THE STATE.

MR. PRETLOW: AS -- AS INDIVIDUALS, 2.6 BILLION.

MR. RA: 2.6 BILLION. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND -- AND

I -- I THINK THIS HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN AN AREA FOR YOU, AND I -- I READ -- I

READ MANY OF THE PRIOR DEBATES. LIKE YOU SAID, I -- YOU KNOW, I -- I

KNOW THAT CHAIR FARRELL, CHAIR WEINSTEIN, YOUR PREDECESSORS, YOU

KNOW, OFTEN MADE THAT POINT ABOUT US REPRESENTING OUR VOTERS, WHICH

WE CERTAINLY DO. BUT I -- I DO THINK THAT THE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS,

YOU KNOW, DO ANTICIPATE APPROVAL BY TAXPAYERS AND -- AND WE -- WE

HAVE DONE THAT, LIKE I SAID, IN RECENT YEARS WITH -- WITH THE

ENVIRONMENTAL BOND ACT, WITH -- WITH THE SMART SCHOOLS BOND ACT, I

THINK IT WAS CALLED, A FEW YEARS BACK. SO IT'S -- IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE

ARE ABLE TO DO. AND AS -- AS YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, A VERY SMALL PORTION

OF WHAT OUR DEBT OUTSTANDING IS HAS BEEN APPROVED IN THAT MANNER.

ONE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE ABOUT OUR OVERALL DEBT

PICTURE. IN ADDITION TO OUR DEBT WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR AS A STATE, THERE'S

ALL KINDS OF AUTHORITIES AND -- AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE THAT ALSO HAVE

TAKEN OUT DEBT. DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHAT THAT TOTAL NUMBER IS

THAT HAVE [SIC] BEEN TAKEN OUT BY -- BY ALL OF THE AUTHORITIES THAT ARE OUT

THERE THAT ARE UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE STATE?

MR. PRETLOW: $328 BILLION. THAT'S THE PUBLIC --

TOTAL PUBLIC AUTHORITIES.

MR. RA: OKAY. THANK YOU. AND AS YOU KNOW, YOU

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

KNOW, THERE IS ANNUALLY SOME REPORTING DONE BUT IT SEEMS LIKE

SOMETIMES IT'S -- IT LAGS A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE CERTAIN ENTITIES WILL GET THAT

INFORMATION IN TO -- TO THE PUBLIC AUTHORITY'S OFFICE AND SOME -- SOME --

SOME DON'T. SO I THINK THAT'S A NUMBER WE SHOULD ALSO BE -- BE VERY

AWARE OF.

ONE -- I GUESS ONE OTHER -- YOU KNOW WHAT? I THINK

I'M -- I THINK I HAVE NO OTHER QUESTIONS FOR YOU. I THINK I'M GONNA GO

ON THE BILL.

MR. PRETLOW: THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. RA: BUT I THANK YOU. I LOOK FORWARD TO MANY

MORE -- DID YOU WANT TO FINISH YOUR POINT FROM EARLIER?

MR. PRETLOW: NAH, I'M GOOD.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. RA: WELL, I LOOK FORWARD TO MANY MORE

DISCUSSIONS IN THE NEAR FUTURE REGARDING THIS YEAR'S BUDGET AS WE GET

SOME CERTAINTY WITH -- WITH REGARD TO THE OVERALL SPENDING NUMBER.

SO, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT --

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. RA: -- OUR DEBT AS OUR STATE, THE COMPTROLLER'S

REPORT ON OUR FINANCIAL CONDITION THAT IS DONE EACH YEAR LISTS OUR PER

CAPITA STATE-SUPPORTED DEBT FOR THE 2023-2024 AS $2,775. SO THAT IS

EVERY NEW YORKER, THAT WOULD BE THEIR SHARE OF -- OF OUR STATE'S DEBT.

BUT WHEN YOU ADD INTO IT THAT AUTHORITY DEBT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, IT'S

NEARLY $17,000. NOW, THAT'S NOT DIRECTLY TAKEN OUT ON BEHALF OF THE

STATE, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, TAXPAYERS OF THIS STATE IN SOME FASHION

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR -- FOR ALL OF THIS DEBT.

NOW, AS WAS SAID, THIS BILL IS VERY IMPORTANT IN TERMS

OF SHOWING OUR BONDHOLDERS THAT WE CAN MEET OUR FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS

IN TERMS OF PRESERVING OUR BOND RATING, IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO PAY

FOR ALL OF THE THINGS WE WANT TO INVEST IN THE STATE, WHETHER IT'S --

WHETHER IT'S ROADS, WHETHER IT'S CLEAN WATER INFRASTRUCTURE. SO I AM

GOING TO BE SUPPORTING THE BILL. BUT IT'S AN IMPORTANT OPPORTUNITY TO

HAVE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE LEVEL OF DEBT WE HAVE AS A STATE. AS I

MENTIONED, THAT NUMBER WILL GET UP TO, OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS, TO

BEING A LARGER NUMBER THAN THE BUDGETS, THE ENTIRE BUDGETS OF 43 STATES.

SO WE DO NEED TO THINK MORE ABOUT WHAT LEVEL OF DEBT WE ARE LEAVING

ON -- ON THE NEXT GENERATION IN NEW YORK STATE. AND -- AND WE ARE THE

EMPIRE STATE. WE -- WE DO WANT TO INVEST IN -- IN THINGS, BUT WE

WANNA DO SO IN A SUSTAINABLE MANNER SO THAT WE'RE NOT LEAVING A

TREMENDOUS DEBT TO -- TO THE NEXT GENERATIONS OF NEW YORKERS.

NOW, OVERALL WITH THIS BUDGET PICTURE, $252 BILLION

WAS THE EXECUTIVE PROPOSAL. WE'RE STILL UNDER NEGOTIATIONS AS TO WHAT

THE FINAL NUMBER IS GOING TO BE. THERE'S STILL TALK ABOUT POTENTIALLY

DIFFERENT TAX INCREASES, WHETHER IT'S ON BUSINESSES, WHETHER IT'S ON

INDIVIDUALS, WHETHER IT'S TO FUND THINGS LIKE THE MTA. AND WE START

TODAY BY PASSING OUR FIRST BUDGET BILL, BUT WE'RE DOING SO REALLY WITHOUT

A FULL PICTURE OF WHAT THIS IS ALL GOING TO LOOK LIKE. NOW, THIS IS ONE,

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE DONE EARLY IN THE PAST. I WENT AND LOOKED BACK;

THERE ARE TIMES WE PASSED THIS AS EARLY AS, YOU KNOW, REALLY MID-MARCH

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE FROM THE EXECUTIVE PROPOSAL. BUT AS

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

WE GET INTO NEXT WEEK, AS WE GET INTO TUESDAY, IF WE DO END UP IN AN

EXTENDER SITUATION LIKE WE HAVE THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS AND THEN WE START

TO SEE BUDGET BILLS AND WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER CERTAIN PROVISIONS MADE

IT IN, WHETHER CERTAIN SPENDING PRIORITIES MADE IT IN, WHAT THE OVERALL

NUMBER IS, THAT'S WHEN THIS PROCESS GETS TO BE VERY NONTRANSPARENT.

AND I THINK THAT AS WE'RE ADOPTING THIS BUDGET, I WOULD LIKE TO HOPE WE

WILL HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS ON ALL OF THOSE NINE OTHER BUDGET BILLS LIKE

THIS; THERE'S SUN SHINING IN THROUGH THE WINDOWS, IT'S NOT THE MIDDLE OF

THE NIGHT. THE BILLS DIDN'T GET JUST DROPPED ON OUR DESKS MINUTES

BEFORE WE'RE VOTING ON THEM. THAT'S THE PROCESS THAT I THINK NEW

YORKERS WANT TO SEE WHEN IT COMES TO SPENDING OVER $250 BILLION OF --

OF THEIR TAXES.

SO WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE BEGINNING, OPENING DAY,

HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL. MY HOPE IS THAT NEXT WEEK WHEN WE COME BACK

WE'RE PASSING BUDGET BILLS. BUT IF NOT, IF WE DO HAVE TO DO A SHORT-TERM

EXTENDER THAT WE TAKE REALLY SERIOUSLY THE OBLIGATION TO WRAP UP THOSE

NEGOTIATIONS AND NOT ALWAYS BE THINKING, HEY, WE HAVE MORE TIME.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FEW WEEKS BEFORE IT'S PASSOVER, BEFORE IT'S EASTER

SO LET'S JUST KEEP WAITING AND THEN AT THE VERY LAST MINUTE WE'LL -- WE'LL

COME TO A DEAL LIKE -- LIKE WE USUALLY DO. I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT

THING TO DO FOR TRANSPARENCY. I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO

FOR THE MEMBERS. I DON'T THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR OUR STAFFS,

WHO -- WHO END UP, YOU KNOW, SLEEPING IN THIS BUILDING AND NOT -- NOT

-- WELL, AT THE CHANCE THEY GET ANY SLEEP -- AND TRYING TO DEAL WITH

CLOSING THOSE DEALS, MAKING SURE THE MEMBERS ALL KNOW WHAT'S --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

WHAT'S GOING ON. LET'S DO IT IN A TRANSPARENT MANNER. LET'S DO IT IN THE

LIGHT OF DAY AND LET'S TAKE SERIOUSLY OUR OBLIGATION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE

HAVE A BUDGET THAT IS ENACTED, ENACTED ON TIME AND MEETS THE NEEDS OF

NEW YORKERS.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. SMULLEN.

MR. SMULLEN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. SMULLEN: IN LISTENING TO THE DISCUSSION WITH

MY COLLEAGUES, IT -- IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT THIS APPEARS TO BE A

TECHNICAL DISCUSSION ABOUT ONE BILL THAT'S PART OF A TEN-BILL PACKAGE

THAT'S GONNA RELATE TO SPENDING ON $250-PLUS BILLION FOR THE STATE OF

NEW YORK GOING FORWARD. AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT THE CASE HAS BEEN IN

MY SIX YEARS, NOW MY SEVENTH YEAR, THE SEVENTH BUDGET THAT I'VE BEEN

HONORED TO REPRESENT MY PEOPLE HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY. BUT I WANT TO

REMIND ALL, ALL WHO ARE LISTENING AND ALL WHO ARE HERE THAT THERE'S A

LARGER PICTURE AT PLAY THAT WE MUST KEEP IN MIND, AND THAT'S THE DEBT

THAT ALL CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES PAYS THROUGH THE FEDERAL DEBT AND

HOW THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT NEW YORK. BUT HOW DEBT AGGREGATES AND

HOW IT -- ITS EFFECTS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, AT THE STATE LEVEL, AT THE LOCAL

LEVEL, AT THESE AUTHORITIES THAT BORROW MONEY THAT'S GUARANTEED BY THE

PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND HOW WE, AS NEW YORKERS, HAVE

THE HIGHEST DEBT LOAD OF ANY STATE IN THE UNION. AND ALTHOUGH WE'RE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

ONLY TALKING ABOUT $10 MILLION HERE, WHAT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT IS

SOMETHING MUCH MORE. THE LARGER PICTURE IS THAT THE UNITED STATES IS

SWIMMING IN A SEA OF DEBT, $36 TRILLION. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN

BORROW MONEY TO CLOSE A DEFICIT AND THEN IT BECOMES PART OF THE

NATIONAL DEBT. WE'RE AT $36 TRILLION RIGHT NOW IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE 20 MILLION TAXPAYERS OF NEW YORK STATE, EACH HAVE $108,000

SHARE PER CAPITA. EVERY MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD, EVERY CITIZEN OF NEW

YORK HAS AN OBLIGATION TO PAY THEIR FEDERAL TAXES JUST AS WELL AS WE ARE

COMPELLING OUR CITIZENS RIGHT NOW TO PAY THEIR STATE TAXES FOR $250

BILLION JUST THIS YEAR. AND WHAT I'M HEARING IS LARGELY INDIFFERENCE TO

THE AMOUNT THAT WE'RE PAYING. AND THAT'S VERY DANGEROUS. IF THIS WERE

-- IF THIS WERE A ROCKET SHIP, ALL THE LIGHTS ON THE DASH WOULD BE

BLINKING RED, SAYING "DANGER, DANGER, DANGER." WHAT WOULD WE DO IF

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REDUCED ITS SHARE OF FUNDING TO NEW YORK

STATE? WHAT WOULD WE DO IF THERE WAS AN ECONOMIC DOWNTURN IN

WHICH TAX RECEIPTS SUDDENLY CAME UP SHORT? WHAT IF WE WHIPPED

INFLATION AND TAX RECEIPTS CAME DOWN BECAUSE SALES TAX RECEIPTS DIDN'T

GO UP BECAUSE OF THE BIDENOMIC INFLATION THAT WE'VE BEEN

EXPERIENCING OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS? THESE ARE SERIOUS ECONOMIC

CONCERNS THAT THIS BODY, THIS CHAMBER, THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK AND

ASSEMBLY NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO. BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT GOING ON

INSIDE THIS BUDGET THAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THIS YEAR. STATE-RELATED

DEBT IS GOING TO BE 56 BILLION THIS YEAR, BUT IT'S SCHEDULED TO GROW TO 65

BILLION NEXT YEAR AND GO MORE INTO THE OUT-YEARS. AND OUR TAX

PROJECTIONS, ARE THEY GOING TO CATCH UP? WHY AREN'T WE SAVING MONEY

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

SO WE CAN PAY IT DOWN OR SAVE IT FOR AN EVEN GREATER RAINY DAY FUND?

THAT WAS IN NONE OF THE BUDGETS THAT I SAW COMING INTO THIS DAY RIGHT

NOW. IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT OUR PER CAPITA DEBT, EACH MAN, WOMAN AND

CHILD IN NEW YORK HAS ALMOST $3,000 OF PER CAPITA DEBT AND IT'S GOING

TO GROW. WHY DON'T WE PAY SOME OF THAT OFF SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO

PAY IT IN THE OUT-YEARS? WHY DO OUR CHILDREN HAVE TO BE SADDLED WITH

THIS DEBT? BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST THE $56- TO $65 BILLION DEBT, IT'S THE

$325 BILLION THAT PUBLIC AUTHORITIES HAVE. THAT'S ALMOST A THIRD OF A

TRILLION DOLLARS.

SO WHEN YOU ADD IT ALL UP IT IS INDEED A RED LIGHT

WARNING SITUATION FOR NEW YORK STATE. AND IT IS OUR OBLIGATION AS

LEGISLATORS TO DO STRATEGIC PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE OF NEW YORK STATE.

AND THAT PLANNING SHOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE FISCAL REALITIES OF OUR

FINANCIAL SITUATION, OF OUR FINANCIAL PLAN, NOT ONLY LAST YEAR BUT THIS

YEAR AND THE YEARS GOING FORWARD. AND I DON'T THINK IT'S PROPER FOR THE

UNITED STATES AS A -- AS A WHOLE TO BE SPENDING MONEY AT WORLD WAR II

LEVELS. THE COVID PANDEMIC IS LONG OVER. THE SPENDING THAT WAS

BORROWED TO PAY FOR COVID-ERA SPENDING IS OVER. IT'S TIME THAT WE, AS

THE LEGISLATURE, WISED UP COLLECTIVELY AND REDUCE OUR SPENDING SO WE

DON'T HAVE TO CONTINUE TO BORROW MONEY. BECAUSE FOR THE -- THE PEOPLE

THAT PAY TAXES, ALL TAX MONEY IS FUNGIBLE. YOU CAN'T TELL SOMEONE THAT'S

PAYING FOR THEIR FIRE DISTRICT, THAT'S PAYING FOR THEIR COUNTY TAXES, THAT

THEY'RE PAYING FOR THEIR STATE TAXES, THAT THEY'RE PAYING FOR THEIR FEDERAL

TAXES THAT DEBT DOESN'T MATTER. BECAUSE IT'S PROVED OUT BY THE

OUTMIGRATION, PARTICULARLY IN RURAL AREAS OF NEW YORK, THAT PEOPLE ARE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

LEAVING FOR OTHER STATES THAT HAVE OTHER ECONOMIC FORTUNES THAT ARE

BETTER THAN NEW YORK STATE. THE AMERICAN LEGISLATIVE EXCHANGE

COUNCIL INDEED SAYS THAT NEW YORK RANKS LAST IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC

OUTLOOK. SO WE'RE NUMBER ONE IN TAXES AND -- AND NUMBER 50 IN

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK.

I THINK IT'S TIME FOR THIS BODY, STARTING WITH THIS

BUDGET, STARTING WITH THIS BILL, STARTING TODAY, TO TAKE A MUCH MORE

SERIOUS LOOK AT HOW TAXES AND DEBT AND REGULATION AFFECT OUR STATE

BECAUSE IT DOES ALL MATTER. IT MATTERS VERY DEARLY TO THOSE CITIZENS WHO

PAY.

SO, ALL OF THOSE WHO ARE WITHIN EARSHOT, THE MEMBERS

HERE AND THE MEMBERS THAT ARE NOT HERE LISTENING TO THIS SPEECH, I URGE

YOU TO VOTE NO ON THIS BILL AND VERY CAREFULLY CONSIDER AS WE GO

THROUGH OUR BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS FOR THE NEXT PERIOD OF TIME THAT WE

SLIM THINGS DOWN, THAT WE REDUCE OUR OVERALL DEBT BURDEN, AND THAT WE

TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT OUR PEOPLE MUST PAY. THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. MANKTELOW.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE CHAIR YIELD FOR A QUESTION OR TWO?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE CHAIR

YIELD?

MR. PRETLOW: DID YOU SAY "A" QUESTION? THAT'S

ONE, RIGHT?

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CHAIR YIELDS.

MR. MANKTELOW: I'LL KEEP IT AS LOW AS I CAN.

THANK YOU, CHAIR.

TALKING ABOUT THE DEBT PACKAGE, IS THERE ANY OTHER

NEW YORK STATE DEBT THAT'S NOT IN THIS PACKAGE?

MR. PRETLOW: NO. NO. LEGALLY, WE -- WE CAN

ONLY GET DEBT THROUGH BONDING, AND THIS IS WHAT THIS IS, SO...

MR. MANKTELOW: SO THERE'S -- THERE'S NO OTHER

OUTSTANDING DEBT OUT THERE?

MR. PRETLOW: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. HOW ABOUT FEDERAL

DEBT?

MR. PRETLOW: THAT'S THE THIRD QUESTION.

MR. MANKTELOW: IS THE -- IS THERE FEDERAL DEBT

IN THIS PACKAGE?

MR. PRETLOW: NO. FEDERAL DEBT IS A DEBT OWED

BY THE -- BY THE FEDS. AS YOUR COLLEAGUE JUST MENTIONED, THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT HAS A LARGE DEBT, BUT THIS IS DEBT THAT'S GENERATED BY BONDS

ISSUED BY THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND AUTHORITIES OF THE STATE OF NEW

YORK.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. SO JUST -- JUST HELP ME

UNDERSTAND THIS A LITTLE BIT, THEN. IF THIS IS THE TOTAL DEBT PACKAGE OF

NEW YORK STATE, DO -- DO WE NOT OWE $7 BILLION TO THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT FOR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE MONEY THAT WE BORROWED?

MR. PRETLOW: THAT'S -- THAT -- WE'RE -- WE'RE --

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

THAT'S IN HERE SOMEWHERE.

MR. MANKTELOW: THAT'S IN THIS PACKAGE?

MR. PRETLOW: WE'RE PAYING THAT OFF THIS YEAR, AS A

MATTER OF FACT.

MR. MANKTELOW: NO, NO. BUT IS IT IN THIS

PACKAGE?

MR. PRETLOW: NO.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO THAT $7 BILLION WORTH OF

DEBT IS NOT IN THIS NUMBER?

MR. PRETLOW: NO.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO THERE IS MORE THAN JUST THIS

PACKAGE AS FAS AS DEBTS?

MR. PRETLOW: NO. THIS IS BONDED DEBT. WE

DIDN'T -- WE DIDN'T BOND THE $7 BILLION, WE JUST BORROWED IT.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. BUT IT'S -- BUT IT'S STILL

DEBT --

MR. PRETLOW: YES.

MR. MANKTELOW: -- TO THE RESIDENTS OF THE NEW

YORK STATE?

MR. PRETLOW: YES, IT IS DEBT.

MR. MANKTELOW: ALL RIGHT. I APPRECIATE YOU

ANSWERING THE QUESTION.

AND MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO A LITTLE WHILE AGO WE WERE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

TALKING ABOUT DEBT. WE WERE THINKING ABOUT ALL THE STATE DEBT AND, YOU

KNOW, SHOULD WE VOTE YES ON THIS, SHOULD WE VOTE NO ON THIS. AND AS

MY COLLEAGUE SAID EARLIER, THAT -- WHAT -- WHAT IS THE REAL PACKAGE?

AND LET'S THINK ABOUT THIS IS NOT FROM THE FEDERAL LEVEL. LET'S NOT THINK

ABOUT THIS FROM THE STATE LEVEL, THE COUNTY LEVEL, THE TOWN LEVEL, THE

VILLAGE LEVEL. ANY FORM OF GOVERNMENT IN NEW YORK STATE. LET'S THINK

ABOUT OUR -- OUR FAMILIES BACK HOME. LET'S THINK ABOUT MEN AND

WOMEN AND FAMILIES AND SENIORS AND YOUNG PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE

STRAPPED WITH THIS DEBT LONG-TERM. IS THAT NOT WHY WE TRY TO GET RID OF

OUR DEBT? DO ANY OF US BACK HOME CONTINUE TO BUILD MORE AND MORE

AND MORE DEBT? NO. WE TRY TO CUT OUR DEBT SO WE CAN SAVE MONEY

LONG-TERM. MUCH LIKE IN A BUSINESS, DEBT IS DEBT. DEBT KILLS A

BUSINESS. CASH FLOW IS THE KING. AND WE'RE NOT DOING THAT HERE.

I WANT TO SUPPORT THIS BILL BECAUSE, YES, I THINK MANY

OF US, IF NOT ALL OF US, WANT TO PAY OUR DEBTS THAT NEW YORK STATE OWES.

BUT THE REASON WE'RE VOTING NO IS IN MY SEVEN YEARS, NOT ONE TIME HAVE

WE EVER HELD THE LINE IN OUR BUDGET. NOT ONE TIME HAVE WE REALLY

TALKED ABOUT CUTTING SPENDING, SAVING OUR TAXPAYERS MONEY SO THEY CAN

KEEP THEIR MONEY IN THEIR POCKET.

SO, YES, IN THEORY WE WILL TOTALLY SUPPORT PAYING OUR

NEW YORK STATE BILLS BECAUSE WE NEED TO DO THAT. BUT AT THE SAME

TIME, VOTING NO LETS THE PEOPLE KNOW BACK HOME THAT WE'RE NOT GETTING

RID OF OUR DEBT FAST ENOUGH. AND THAT'S THE REASON I'M SPEAKING. IT'S

NOT ABOUT US HERE, IT'S ABOUT OUR FAMILIES AND OUR LOVED ONES BACK

HOME. SO LET'S DO EVERYTHING WE CAN IN THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS TO ZERO

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

OUT THAT DEBT, BECAUSE THAT ALLOWS US TO BREATHE AS NEW YORKERS, IT

ALLOWS THE STATE TO SPEND MONEY IN DIFFERENT WAYS, JUST TALKING ABOUT

THE INTEREST OF THE DOLLARS THAT WE OWE. WHERE ELSE COULD WE PUT THAT

MONEY? WE COULD PUT IT TO LOW-INCOME HOUSING, NEW BUSINESSES,

HELPING TO PAY FOR OTHER THINGS ACROSS THE STATE. SUPPORTING OUR

SCHOOLS, SUPPORTING OUR -- OUR COLLEGES, SUPPORTING OUR LOVED ONES.

ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO AND THAT I CAN SEE TO GETTING RID DEBT AT A

FASTER PACE, I WILL ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT.

SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU, CHAIR, FOR ANSWERING

MY COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME

TO SAY A FEW WORDS. BUT I WILL DEFINITELY BE VOTING NO, NOT BECAUSE I

DON'T WANT TO PAY THE DEBT, BUT WE'RE NOT DOING IT FAST ENOUGH. THANK

YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GANDOLFO.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE GENERALLY OPPOSED TO THIS BUDGET

BILL BEFORE US, BUT ANY MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE YES CAN DO SO AT

THEIR DESK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN

EXCEPTION. THEY CAN FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE

THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MR. GANDOLFO FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. IT

IS ALWAYS GREAT WHEN WE ARE JOINED BY A FORMER MEMBER OF OUR HOUSE,

AND TODAY WE GET TO WELCOME BACK MISSY MILLER, WHO REPRESENTED THE

20TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT DOWN ON LONG ISLAND. AND SHE IS CURRENTLY

SERVING AS A -- ON THE HEMPSTEAD TOWN COUNCIL. YOU DON'T NEED ME

TO TELL YOU THIS, HER REPUTATION PRECEDES HER, BUT SHE HAS BEEN A TIRELESS

ADVOCATE FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, AND SHE IS

HERE TODAY ADVOCATING FOR MEDICALLY COMPLEX AND MEDICALLY FRAGILE

CHILDREN WITH HER SON OLIVER.

SO, MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD YOU PLEASE GIVE MISSY

MILLER THE WELCOME BACK TO HER HOUSE THAT SHE DESERVES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: YES.

ON BEHALF OF MR. GANDOLFO, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

MEMBERS, WELCOME BACK, MISSY AND OLIVER. WONDERFUL TO SEE YOU.

WE WELCOME YOU BACK TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER. YOU KNOW YOU

ALWAYS HAVE THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR AS BEING AN EX-MEMBER. SO

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY. GOOD TO SEE YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, DO YOU

HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WE HAVE A NUMBER

OF RESOLUTIONS BEFORE THE HOUSE. WITHOUT OBJECTION, THESE RESOLUTIONS

WILL BE TAKEN UP TOGETHER.

ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 271-276

WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL

ON MEMBER CLARK FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. CLARK FOR THE

PURPOSES OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR [SIC]. I AM

ANNOUNCING THAT THERE WILL BE A MAJORITY CONFERENCE IMMEDIATELY

FOLLOWING SESSION IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. WE HAVE

CONFERENCE IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING SESSION. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY MARCH 27, 2025

IMMEDIATE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM

UPON THE ADJOURNMENT OF SESSION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: I NOW MOVE THAT THE

ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL FRIDAY, MARCH THE 28TH, TOMORROW

BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY, AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT 9:00 A.M., APRIL THE

1ST, TUESDAY BEING A SESSION DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON MRS. PEOPLES-

STOKES' MOTION, THE HOUSE STANDS ADJOURNED.

(WHEREUPON, AT 12:14 P.M., THE HOUSE STOOD

ADJOURNED UNTIL FRIDAY, MARCH 28TH, THAT BEING A LEGISLATIVE DAY, AND TO

RECONVENE ON TUESDAY, APRIL 1ST AT 9:00 A.M., THAT BEING A SESSION

DAY.)