TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2025 12:32 P.M.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE HOUSE WILL
COME TO ORDER.
GOOD AFTERNOON, COLLEAGUES.
IMAM MOHAMMED ISMAIL WILL OFFER A PRAYER.
IMAM MOHAMMED ISMAIL: GOOD AFTERNOON TO
EVERYONE. THIS IS A GREAT HONOR TO STAND BEFORE YOU TODAY AND SHARE A
BRIEF REFLECTION FROM HOLY BOOK OF QURAN. ONE THAT IT SPEAKS NOT ONLY
TO MUSLIM, BUT TO ALL OF US AS HUMAN BEINGS WE -- WE HAVE CREATED BY
SAME GOD, ONE GOD. AND I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN BY SHARING A VERY
IMPORTANT VERSE FROM HOLY BOOK.
(UNSPOKEN LANGUAGE)
ALL HUMANITY, INDEED, I HAVE GREETED ALL OF YOU FROM A
SINGLE MALE AND FEMALE AND I HAVE MET YOU, PEOPLE AND TRIBE, SO THAT
1
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
YOU CAN INTRODUCE EACH OTHER. AND INDEED, THE MOST NOBLE AMONG YOU,
IN THE SIGHT OF GOD, IS THE MOST GOD FEARING OF YOU. DIVERSITY IS A
BLESSING. WE ARE ONE HUMAN FAMILY. DIFFERENCE -- DIFFERENT IN OUR
CULTURE, COLOR, LANGUAGE AND TRADITION, BUT UNITED IN OUR HUMANITY. OUR
SKIN COLOR, OUR BACKGROUND, OUR CULTURE, THESE ARE JUST PART OF THIS
STORY. WHAT TRULY DEFINES US IS OUR CHARACTER, OUR HEARTS AND OUR
ACTIONS.
SO, TODAY, AS WE SIT TOGETHER IN THIS GREAT GATHERING,
LET'S REMEMBER WE ARE BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN HUMANITY. WE ARE
DIFFERENT, YES, BUT WE ARE MEANT TO USE THOSE DIFFERENCES TO BUILD, NOT
TO BREAK. TO UNITE, NOT TO DIVIDE. SO, WE SEEK ALMIGHTY GOD TO GRANT
US THE ABILITY TO DO OUR BEST IN RIGHTEOUS ACTIONS MY -- IN -- IN -- IN
EVERY PART OF OUR LIVES. WHILE ALLOWING POWER OUR HEARTS WITH THE
STRENGTH SO THAT WE MAY BENEFIT OTHERS AND BRING HAPPINESS.
(INDISCERNIBLE) PROTECT THE PEOPLE OF THIS LAND, PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY,
FROM EVERY TRIAL AND -- AND HARDSHIPS. AMEN. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: VISITORS ARE INVITED
TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER LED VISITORS AND
MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)
A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE
JOURNAL OF MONDAY, MAY 26TH.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MISS SPEAKER, I MOVE TO
DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF MONDAY, MAY THE
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
26TH AND THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WITHOUT OBJECTION,
SO ORDERED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU SO MUCH.
GOOD AFTERNOON, COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT OUR IN THE
CHAMBERS. I'D LIKE TO SHARE OF QUOTE WITH YOU TODAY. THIS ONE COMES
FROM ERYKAH BADU. SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW OF HER WORKS. HER WORDS
FOR US TODAY: "BE THE REASON SOMEONE FEELS WELCOMED, SEEN, HEARD,
VALUED, LOVED, AND SUPPORTED." AGAIN, THESE WORDS FROM ERYKAH BADU,
AN AWARD-WINNING SINGER AND SONGWRITER KNOWN AS THE QUEEN OF NEO
SOUL.
MADAM SPEAKER, MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR DESK A MAIN
CALENDER AS WELL AS A DEBATE LIST. BEFORE ANY HOUSEKEEPING AND/OR
INTRODUCTIONS, WE'LL BE CALLING FOR THE RULES COMMITTEE TO MEET. THAT
COMMITTEE'S GOING TO PRODUCE AN A-CALENDAR, WHICH WE WILL TAKE UP
TODAY. WE WILL ALSO BE CALLING FOR THE FOLLOWING COMMITTEES TO MEET
OFF THE FLOOR: CONSUMER AFFAIRS, FOLLOWED BY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,
FOLLOWED BY EDUCATION, FOLLOWED BY GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS,
HEALTH, REAL PROPERTY AND TAXATION, AND WAYS AND MEANS. IF THERE IS
A NEED TO ANNOUNCE ADDITIONAL FLOOR ACTIVITY, MADAM SPEAKER, I'D BE
GRATEFUL TO DO THAT AT THAT POINT. BUT, AS FOR NOW, THAT'S THE GENERAL
OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE GOING. YOU CAN BEGIN BY CALLING THE RULES
COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. AND THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
RULES COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.
RULES COMMITTEE MEMBERS PLEASE VISIT THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE
ROOM
WE HAVE NO HOUSEKEEPING THIS MORNING, BUT A FEW
INTRODUCTIONS.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN
INTRODUCTION.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER.
ON BEHALF OF OUR COLLEAGUE, MR. MAMDANI, I'D LIKE TO
INTRODUCE THE IMAM WHO GAVE US AN AMAZING PRAYER THIS AFTERNOON,
MOHAMMED ISMAIL. HE IS ACTUALLY FROM THE AN-NOOR CULTURAL CENTER,
I'M SURE IN THE DISTRICT OF OUR COLLEAGUE, MR. MAMDANI.
SO, WOULD YOU PLEASE OFFER HIM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE
FLOOR AND AGAIN WELCOME HIM TO OUR CHAMBERS.
(APPLAUSE)
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF
OF MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, ASSEMBLYMEMBER MAMDANI, THE SPEAKER AND
ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, IMAM, TO THE CHAMBER, EXTEND THE
PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU. HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY.
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR YOU PRAYER THIS MORNING AND FOR JOINING
US.
THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
INTRODUCTION.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTRODUCE A -- AGAIN, FOR -- ON BEHALF OF
OUR COLLEAGUE, MR. MAMDANI, THE BAAG, B-A-A-G, IS A NOT-FOR-PROFIT
ORGANIZATION WHO TRAVEL WITH THE IMAM, WHO GAVE US OUR PRAYER TODAY.
WE WANT TO THANK THEM FOR TRAVELING WITH THE IMAM. AND JUST MENTION
THAT THEIR SOCIAL WORK FOR ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO EMPOWERING,
UPLIFTING THE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES. THEY PROVIDE A PLATFORM OF
ADVOCACY, EDUCATION, AND CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, HELPING INDIVIDUALS AND
FAMILIES NAVIGATE COMPLEX SYSTEMS, AMPLIFYING THEIR VOICE, AND
BUILDING A STRONGER AND MORE INCLUSIVE SOCIETY.
THEIR MISSION IS TO ENSURE THAT IMMIGRANTS, REGARDLESS
OF BACKGROUND OR STATUS, ARE HEARD, SUPPORTED, AND EQUIPPED TO LEAD
CHANGE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES. THROUGH THEIR GRASSROOTS OUTREACH
EFFORTS AND THEIR POLICY WORK, BAAG IS A TRUSTED PARTNER IN A POWERFUL
VOICE THAT IS OFTEN LEFT UNHEARD.
MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU COULD PLEASE WELCOME THESE
GREAT PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING GREAT WORK IN THEIR COMMUNITIES IN AND
AROUND OUR STATE TO OUR CHAMBERS AND OFFER THEM THE CORDIALITIES OF
THE HOUSE, AGAIN, ON BEHALF OF OUR COLLEAGUE, MR. MAMDANI.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, ASSEMBLYMEMBER MAMDANI, THE SPEAKER AND ALL
MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, OUR DISTINGUISHED GUEST, TO THE ASSEMBLY
CHAMBER, THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, EXTENDING THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO
YOU. WE HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY. THANK YOU SO VERY
5
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MUCH FOR JOINING US.
(APPLAUSE)
MR. MAHER FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.
MR. MAHER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
I RISE TODAY WITH THE HONOR OF INTRODUCING MY VERY
DEAR FRIEND MAUREEN HALAHAN, THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE ORANGE
COUNTY PARTNERSHIP. MAUREEN IS JOINED HERE BY HER HUSBAND WILLIAM
POOLEY, HER SON MATT POOLEY, DAUGHTER-IN-LAW CATRINA POOLEY, HER
DAUGHTER AUDREY ZAJAC, AND HER THREE BEAUTIFUL GRANDCHILDREN, PAYTON,
CAMERON AND FINNLEY (PHONETIC).
MAUREEN HAS WORKED FOR THE ORANGE COUNTY
PARTNERSHIP FOR OVER 20 YEARS. AND IN THAT TIME, MORE THAN 300 MAJOR
ATTRACTIONS OF NEW BUSINESSES, COMPANIES, THAT HAVE CREATED OVER
11,000 NEW JOBS FOR ORANGE COUNTY, GENERATING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN
CAPITAL INVESTMENT. AND ON TOP OF THAT, WITH AN EXISTING 318
COMPANIES, DUE TO THEIR EXPANSIONS, LED TO AN ADDITIONAL NEARLY 9,000
JOBS CREATED. ASIDE FROM THAT, THIS INDIVIDUAL WAS APPOINTED 14 YEARS
AGO TO SERVE ON THE HUDSON VALLEY REGIONAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
COUNCIL. WHEN THOSE COUNCILS WERE DEVELOPED, MAUREEN HALAHAN WAS
THE FIRST ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT NAME MENTIONED IN THE HUDSON VALLEY
DUE TO HER RÉSUMÉ. SHE HAS BEEN HONORED AGAIN AND AGAIN BY A LITANY
OF ORGANIZATIONS. AND INSTEAD OF READING ALL OF THOSE AWARDS, I WANT TO
JUST MENTION THE HONOR TITLE THAT MEANS THE MOST TO HER, AND THAT IS OF
LOVING WIFE, MOTHER, AND GRANDMOTHER.
AND MY INTRODUCTION OF HER WAS SEPARATE FROM MY
6
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ELECTED CAPACITY, IT WAS ON THE BASKETBALL COURT, WHERE I PLAYED
BASKETBALL WITH HER SON, MATTHEW. AND I LEARNED THAT, AS FIERCE AS SHE
ADVOCATES FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, SHE IS MUCH MORE FIERCE AS A
BASKETBALL MOM, YELLING ON THE COURT FOR HER KIDS, AND I'M SURE, IN THE
FUTURE, FOR HER GRANDKIDS. SHE IS A DEAR FRIEND. SHE IS RETIRING NEXT
WEEK WITH OVER 24 YEARS AT THE ORANGE COUNTY PARTNERSHIP. SHE HAS
DONE SO MUCH TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR LOCAL BUSINESSES, OUR
COMMUNITY AND RESIDENTS.
PLEASE EXTEND THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR TO MAUREEN
AND HER FAMILY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: OH BEHALF OF MR.
MAHER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, MA'AM, TO THE
SPEAKER'S HOUSE AND EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR.
CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR VERY LONG TENURE AT THE ORANGE COUNTY
PARTNERSHIP. YOU'VE DONE ASTOUNDING WORK AND IT -- IT SHOWS IN ALL THE
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE ORANGE COUNTY AREA. AND WELCOME TO
YOUR EXTENDED FAMILY HERE TODAY; YOUR -- YOUR HUSBAND WILLIAM AND
YOUR SON MATT AND CATRINA, AUDREY, PAYTON, CAMERON AND FINNLEY, ALL
OF YOU WELCOME SO MUCH. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.
(APPLAUSE)
MS. GALLAGHER FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.
MS. GALLAGHER: THANK YOU SO MUCH, SPEAKER
[SIC].
THIS -- I AM PROUD TO INTRODUCE MY YOUTH POLICY
COUNCIL FROM GREENPOINT BROOKLYN. THESE STUDENTS HAVE BEEN
7
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
WORKING WITH MY STAFF OVER THE LAST YEAR TO DEVELOP POLICIES BASED ON
THEIR LIVED EXPERIENCE AS STUDENTS IN MY DISTRICT. AND WE HAVE WITH US
TODAY YUHAI YIPP, ALTON BARACAT, JIN PARK, ADEER CHAULDRY, ELAINE
CHUU AND ISABELLA CHUME (ALL PHONETIC). THESE STUDENTS ARE
PHENOMENAL. I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED TO SEE THEM SITTING IN THESE
SEATS IN JUST A FEW YEARS. AND I'M REALLY EXCITED TO HAVE THEM HERE.
AND IF YOU'D LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT THEIR BILL, THEY ARE HERE TO LOBBY YOU.
SO, PLEASE EXTEND THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR TO THESE
WONDERFUL FUTURE POLICYMAKERS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF
MS. GALLAGHER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, YOUNG
PEOPLE, TO OUR ASSEMBLY CHAMBER TODAY AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF
THE FLOOR TO YOU. THANK YOU FOR ALL OF THE ADVOCACY WORK THAT YOU ARE
DOING. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. STRONG FOUNDATION FOR THE FUTURE. WE
DEFINITELY APPRECIATE THAT. AND THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US
TODAY.
(APPLAUSE)
(PAUSE)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN
INTRODUCTION.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTRODUCE SOME GUESTS THAT HAVE JUST
ARRIVED IN OUR CHAMBERS. THEY ARE FROM THE CONSUL GENERATE [SIC]
PEOPLE'S OF REPUBLIC OF CHINA [SIC] IN THE NEW YORK STATE OFFICE. WE
HAVE MR. MA XIAOXIAO, WHO IS THE DEPUTY CONSUL GENERAL, WE HAVE
8
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ANDY CHEN, VICE CONSUL AND WE HAVE CINDY CHUU, VICE CONSUL AS
WELL.
MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE WELCOME OUR
COLLEAGUES FROM THE CONSULATE GENERALS [SIC] PUBLIC -- REPUBLIC OF
CHINA [SIC] IN NEW YORK TO OUR CHAMBERS, OFFER THEM THE CORDIALITIES
OF THE FLOOR AND GIVE THEM YOUR NORMAL WARM GREETING. WELL AND
MUCH APPRECIATED.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME
YOU, OUR DISTINGUISHED GUESTS, TO OUR ASSEMBLY CHAMBER, VISITING FROM
OUR CONSUL GENERAL'S OFFICE, PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA [SIC]. WE
EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU. IT'S ALWAYS VERY IMPORTANT TO
HAVE SUCH GREAT RELATIONSHIPS WITH OUR INTERNATIONAL PARTNERS. SO,
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.
(APPLAUSE)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, AS THE
RULES COMMITTEE HAS LITERALLY JUST STARTED, WOULD YOU PLEASE PUT OUR
HOUSE AT EASE FOR A MOMENT, PLEASE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE HOUSE STANDS AT EASE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU.
(WHEREUPON, THE HOUSE STOOD AT EASE AT 12:51 P.M.)
***********************
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE HOUSE WILL
9
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
COME BACK TO ORDER.
(WHEREUPON, AT 12:58 P.M. THE HOUSE WAS CALLED
BACK TO ORDER.)
MR. BENEDETTO.
MR. BENEDETTO: AND AS WE'RE COMING BACK TO
ORDER, WE WOULD LIKE THE CONSUMER AFFAIRS COMMITTEE TO PLEASE MEET
IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: CONSUMER AFFAIRS
COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. PLEASE SEE
CHAIR ROZIC IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. CONSUMER AFFAIRS.
MR. BENEDETTO.
MR. BENEDETTO: YES. AS THE MEMBERS ARE GOING
TO THEIR COMMITTEE MEETINGS, THE MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR DESK AN
A-CALENDAR. MS. SPEAKER, I MOVE TO ADVANCE THE A-CALENDAR.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
ON A MOTION BY MR. BENEDETTO, THE A-CALENDAR IS
ADVANCED.
ON CONSENT, PAGE 3, RULES REPORT NO. 256, THE CLERK
WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00026, RULES REPORT
NO. 256, ROSENTHAL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW AND THE
PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING MEDICAID FROM REQUIRING
PRIOR AUTHORIZATION FOR HIV MEDICATION.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THIS BILL IS LAID
ASIDE.
10
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01541-A, CALENDAR --
RULES REPORT NO. 257, PAULIN, BURDICK, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, SIMON,
WOERNER, FORREST, SAYEGH, KELLES, JACOBSON, EPSTEIN, LEVENBERG,
CLARK, REYES, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, ZINERMAN, ZACCARO, ROZIC, LEE. AN
ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE
CESAREAN BIRTHS REVIEW BOARD.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULT.)
THE BILL IS PASSED
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01970-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 258, PAULIN, ZACCARO, DINOWITZ, ROSENTHAL, HEVESI, STIRPE,
WEPRIN, LEVENBERG, LEE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN
RELATION TO COLLECTING AND REPORTING SEXUAL OFFENSE EVIDENCE ON THE
STATEWIDE ELECTRONIC TRACKING SYSTEM.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
11
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULT.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MR. BENEDETTO.
MR. BENEDETTO: I HAVE BEEN INFORMED THAT THE
JOB OF CONSUMERS AFFAIR [SIC] IS FINISHED. AND SO WE NOW CALL UPON
MR. BRONSON IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE
ROOM, RIGHT AWAY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WE'LL BE SEEING MR.
STIRPE IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE. PLEASE VISIT MR.
STIRPE FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE IMMEDIATELY IN THE
SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02384, RULES REPORT
NO. 259, EICHENSTEIN, WEPRIN, GALLAGHER, REYES, DILAN, ROSENTHAL,
WIEDER, STECK, ALVAREZ, KAY, LASHER, SANTABARBARA, TORRES, TAPIA,
GALLAHAN, JACOBSON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW AND THE
PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR
RARE DISEASES, LIFE-THREATENING CONDITIONS OR DISEASES, DEGENERATIVE AND
DISABLING CONDITIONS, OR DIAGNOSES INVOLVING MEDICALLY-FRAGILE
CHILDREN.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THIS BILL IS LAID
ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02736-A, RULES
12
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
REPORT NO. 260, JACOBSON, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC
SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO CONSIDERATION OF CAPITAL EXPENDITURES IN
UTILITY RATE PROCEEDINGS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULT.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY -- ASSEMBLY NO. A03121,
RULES REPORT NO. 261, ROSENTHAL, TAYLOR, BURDICK. AN ACT TO AMEND
THE REAL PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING RESIDENTIAL LANDLORDS
FROM CHARGING TENANTS WITH FEES FOR THE PAYMENT OF RENT THROUGH AN
AUTOMATED CLEARING HOUSE OR ONLINE PAYMENT SYSTEM.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.
ROSENTHAL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03649-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 262, TAYLOR, ALVAREZ, MCDONALD, ROMERO, MCDONOUGH,
K. BROWN, MANKTELOW, SEAWRIGHT, O'PHARROW, TAPIA, CRUZ,
SANTABARBARA, DESTEFANO, GANDOLFO, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, SHRESTHA,
13
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, PAULIN, LEVENBERG, RAMOS, LEMONDES, KASSAY,
GALLAGHER, SIMON, CHANDLER-WATERMAN, JACOBSON, WIEDER, BURROUGHS,
STECK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW AND VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC
LAW, IN RELATION TO JOINING MULTISTATE VOTER LIST MAINTENANCE
ORGANIZATIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.
TAYLOR, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS
ADVANCED.
THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03986-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 263, BORES, EPSTEIN, WEPRIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
INSURANCE LAW AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO THE USE OF
VIRTUAL CREDIT CARDS BY INSURERS AND CERTAIN HEALTH CARE PLANS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. BORES TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. BORES: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
AT A TIME WHEN ALL OF OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE TALKING TO
US ABOUT THE COST OF LIVING, OF AFFORDABILITY, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO FIND
ALL OF THE PLACES WHERE EXPENSES ARE INCREASING. AND ONE OF THE CAUSES
14
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
HAS BEEN INSURANCE CONTINUING ON INSISTING USING VIRTUAL CREDIT CARDS TO
PAY BACK OUR DOCTORS, OUR DENTISTS, OUR PROVIDERS, AND THEN TAKING A FEE
AS PART OF THAT. AND SO THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PROVIDING US CARE END UP
HAVING TO TAKE A HAIRCUT AND INCREASE THEIR PRICES AS A RESULT. SO THIS
BILL, WHICH ALLOWS FOR FLEXIBILITY FOR THE PROVIDERS THAT WANT TO RECEIVE
PAYMENT BY A VIRTUAL CREDIT CARD WILL NOT ONLY ENSURE THAT WE HAVE
BETTER HEALTH PROTECTION EVERYWHERE, THAT OUR SMALL PROVIDERS CAN
CONTINUE TO PROVIDE CARE, BUT ALSO THAT COSTS GO DOWN FOR EVERYONE.
I PROUDLY VOTE YES.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BORES IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU
COULD PLEASE CALL THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S
CONFERENCE ROOM.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: EDUCATION
COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. PLEASE MEET CHAIR
BENEDETTO IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. EDUCATION COMMITTEE
MEETING.
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04346, RULES REPORT
NO. 264, DINOWITZ, SEAWRIGHT, JACOBSON, LEVENBERG, GLICK, SIMON,
15
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ZACCARO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE
ADMINISTRATION OF CERTAIN IMMUNIZATIONS BY A PHARMACIST OR A CERTIFIED
NURSE PRACTITIONER.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04502-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 265, CUNNINGHAM, JACKSON, DE LOS SANTOS, YEGER,
ANDERSON, SHIMSKY, MCDONOUGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL
SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO ACCESS TO EDUCATIONAL ACTIVITIES BY PUBLIC
ASSISTANCE RECIPIENTS WHO ARE SUBJECT TO WORK PARTICIPATION
REQUIREMENTS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THIS BILL IS LAID
ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05367-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 266, WEPRIN, JACOBSON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE
LAW, IN RELATION TO HIGH-DEDUCTIBLE HEALTH PLANS AND HEALTH SAVINGS
ACCOUNTS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
16
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06685, RULES REPORT
NO. 267, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VILLAGE LAW, IN RELATION TO FILLING
VACANCIES IN ELECTIVE OFFICES IN VILLAGES WITH NOVEMBER ELECTIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.
OTIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD
YOU PLEASE CALL THE GOVERNMENT [SIC] OPERATIONS TO THE SPEAKER'S
CONFERENCE ROOM?
17
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: GOVERNMENT [SIC]
OPERATIONS COMMITTEE MEETING TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM,
PLEASE. COMMITTEE MEMBERS, PLEASE MEET CHAIR MCDONALD IN THE
SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM FOR GOVERNMENT [SIC] OPERATIONS.
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06691, RULES REPORT
NO. 268, EPSTEIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL
LAW, IN RELATION TO MAKING THE PROVISIONS GOVERNING THE VARIOUS
ON-PREMISES LIQUOR LICENSE CONSISTENT WITH RESPECT TO PUBLIC INTEREST
FACTORS THAT MAY BE CONSIDERED BY THE STATE LIQUOR AUTHORITY WHEN
EVALUATING THE MERITS OF A LICENSE APPLICATION.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THIS BILL IS LAID
ASIDE.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07280, RULES REPORT
NO. 269, KIM, GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS, DAVILA, BRAUNSTEIN, STECK,
BUTTENSCHON, TAPIA, COLTON, GLICK, KASSAY, LUNSFORD, GRIFFIN. AN ACT
TO AMEND THE PARKS, RECREATION AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAW, IN
RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE STATE PARKS PASSPORT PROGRAM.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.
KIM, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
18
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07406, RULES REPORT
NO. 270, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 381 OF THE LAWS OF 2010
AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO THE IMPOSITION OF AN OCCUPANCY TAX
IN THE VILLAGE OF RYE BROOK, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION
THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: HOME RULE
MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07454, RULES REPORT
NO. 271, JONES. CONCURRENT RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE AND ASSEMBLY
PROPOSING AN AMENDMENT TO SECTION 1 OF ARTICLE XIV OF THE
CONSTITUTION, IN RELATION TO THE MOUNT VAN HOEVENBERG OLYMPIC
SPORTS COMPLEX TO ESSEX COUNTY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
19
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07579, RULES REPORT
NO. 272, KAY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LAW,
IN RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR A LICENSE TO SELL LIQUOR AT RETAIL FOR
CONSUMPTION ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07694, RULES REPORT
NO. 273, CONRAD, LUCAS, TAYLOR. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 413 OF THE
LAWS OF 2003 AMENDING THE LABOR LAW RELATING TO THE SELF-
EMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE PROGRAM AND OTHER MATTERS, IN RELATION TO
EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.
20
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08069, RULES REPORT
NO. 274, BRAUNSTEIN. AN ACT TO AMEND PART P OF CHAPTER 39 OF THE
LAWS OF 2019, AMENDING THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW RELATING TO THE
ACQUISITION AND DISPOSITION OF REAL PROPERTY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING
THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU
21
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
COULD PLEASE CALL THE MEMBERS TO THE HEALTH COMMITTEE CONFERENCE
ROOM [SIC] TO SPEAK TO THE COMMITTEE MEETING, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: HEALTH COMMITTEE
TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. MEMBERS ON THE HEALTH
COMMITTEE, PLEASE SEE CHAIR PAULIN IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE
ROOM.
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08153, RULES REPORT
NO. 275, P. CARROLL. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 674 OF THE LAWS OF
1993, AMENDING THE PUBLIC BUILDINGS LAW RELATING TO VALUE LIMITATIONS
ON CONTRACTS, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING SUCH PROVISIONS THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08154, RULES REPORT
NO. 276, BRAUNSTEIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW AND THE
PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO THE CHAIR OF THE NEW YORK STATE
ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
22
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU
COULD CALL REAL PROPERTY TAXES [SIC] TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE
ROOM.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: REAL PROPERTY
TAXATION COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. PLEASE MEET
CHAIR WILLIAMS IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM FOR REAL PROPERTY
TAX [SIC] COMMITTEE.
THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08298, RULES REPORT
NO. 277, P. CARROLL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE FAMILY COURT ACT, IN RELATION
TO THE TIME LIMIT FOR APPEALS IN ALL CATEGORIES OF FAMILY COURT CASES AND
FOR THE FILING OF OBJECTIONS TO SUPPORT MAGISTRATE DETERMINATIONS IN
CHILD SUPPORT, PATERNITY AND PARENTAGE PROCEEDINGS IN FAMILY COURT.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH
23
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, IF WE
COULD NOW BRING OUR ATTENTION TO OUR DEBATE LIST. BUT BEFORE WE DO
THAT, CAN WE CALL THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S
CONFERENCE ROOM?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WAYS AND MEANS TO
THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. WAYS AND MEANS, SPEAKER'S
CONFERENCE ROOM. SEE -- PLEASE SEE CHAIR PRETLOW, SPEAKER'S
CONFERENCE ROOM.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: SO WE'RE GONNA GO TO
RULES REPORT NO. 223, IT'S ON PAGE 8. THEN WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THAT
WITH CALENDAR NO. 11, IT'S ON PAGE 9; CALENDAR NO. 145, IT'S ON PAGE
17; AND CALENDAR NO. 150, IT'S ON PAGE 18. THEN WE WILL GO BACK TO
RULES REPORT AND TAKE UP RULES REPORT NO. 154, IT'S ON PAGE 5; RULES
REPORT NO. 255, IT'S ON PAGE 8; AND THEN RULES REPORT NO. 154, WHICH
IS ON PAGE 5. RULES REPORT NO. 195 IS ON PAGE 6; AND RULES
REPORT NO. 202 IS ON PAGE 6 AS WELL. THAT WILL TAKE US THROUGH SEVEN
24
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
DEBATES, MADAM SPEAKER. WE WILL SEE WHAT OUR DIRECTION IS AFTER
THAT'S COMPLETED.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 223, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S01194-B, RULES REPORT
NO. 223, SENATOR ADDABBO (A06326-A, VALDEZ, SIMON, OTIS, FORREST,
ZACCARO, SHRESTHA, BEEPHAN, DESTEFANO, DURSO, HEVESI, KASSAY,
BURROUGHS, SHIMSKY, GRIFFIN, SANTABARBARA). AN ACT TO AMEND THE
PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING GAS AND ELECTRIC
CORPORATIONS TO PROVIDE 45 DAYS' NOTICE TO CUSTOMERS WHENEVER THERE IS
A SERVICE RATE OR CHARGE INCREASE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. PALMESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. PALMESANO: YES, THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER, MY COLLEAGUES.
THIS LEGISLATION BEFORE US IS BETTER THAN THE BILL WE
HAD LAST YEAR. THE BILL LAST YEAR, FOR MY COLLEAGUES, DEALT WITH
NOTIFICATIONS FOR RATES AND CHARGES, BUT IT WASN'T SPECIFIC ENOUGH
BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE OUTLINED A WHOLE LIST OF CHARGES THAT WOULD
25
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
REQUIRE NOTIFICATION WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN COSTLY AND BURDENSOME.
BUT THIS BILL, I THINK, WAS ADDRESSED SPECIFICALLY FOR MAJOR RATE
INCREASES UNDER SUBDIVISION C. I THINK THE LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL
ADDRESSES THAT FAIRLY. AND I THINK WHEN YOU HAVE A MAJOR RATE INCREASE
I THINK THAT NOTIFICATION IS VERY IMPORTANT TO OUR -- OUR RESIDENTS AND
OUR BUSINESSES.
I THINK ONE THING THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT
WHEN THIS BILL IS ADVANCED FURTHER IS SOMETIMES THERE'S TEMPORARY
INCREASES AND THERE'S FINAL OR PERMANENT INCREASES. REALLY, THE
INTENTION, I THINK, IS (INDISCERNIBLE) THE FINAL INCREASES, AND HOPEFULLY
AS THIS IS ADDRESSED WITH THE PSC IT WILL FOCUS ON FINAL RATE INCREASES.
AND I WILL SAY THERE'S OTHER BILLS THAT WE'VE -- I'VE
SEEN AND LOOKING FOR THAT DEALS WITH THESE NOTIFICATIONS. WE CAN'T JUST
KIND OF CONTINUE TO HAVE NOTIFICATION UPON NOTIFICATION. THIS BILL, I
THINK, ADDRESSES WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AND WAS DONE -- WAS WRITTEN
WELL TO ADDRESS THAT COMPARED TO THE VERSION LAST YEAR.
I GUESS WHAT I REALLY WISH WOULD HAPPEN IS WE'D ALSO,
ON OUR BILLS, ITEMIZE WHAT THOSE CHARGES ARE AND WHAT THEY'RE PAYING
FOR; ALL THE GREEN ENERGY MANDATES THAT CONTINUE TO BE PLACED ON -- INTO
THE UTILITY BILLS BECAUSE THE RATE -- UTILITY RATES ARE GOING UP. IT'S REALLY
BECAUSE OF THESE MANDATES THAT ARE BEING PLACED UPON THEM. SO IT
WOULD BE NICE IF WE ITEMIZE THAT OUT FOR OUR RESIDENTS AND OUR
BUSINESSES SO THEY'RE SEEING EXACTLY WHAT THEIR BILL CHARGES ARE GOING
TO. AND THIS IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT WITH THE FACT THAT THE STATE NEVER
REALLY DID A -- A TRUST COST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS TO SEE HOW MUCH
26
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CLCPA WOULD COST OUR RESIDENTS AND
BUSINESSES. SO THIS WILL COME INTO HAND THERE BECAUSE YOU'RE DEALING
WITH MAJOR RATE INCREASES. I JUST WISH WE COULD BE MORE SPECIFIC ON
OUR BILLS TO SHOW CUSTOMERS WHAT THEY'RE PAYING.
SO -- BUT I WILL BE VOTING YES AND I URGE MY
COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. PALMESANO IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MS. VALDEZ TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. VALDEZ: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, AND
THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUES. I KNOW THIS BILL HAS GONE THROUGH SOME
CHANGES OVER THE LAST YEAR, AND I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR FEEDBACK.
AS WORKING NEW YORKERS STRUGGLE WITH SOARING FOOD,
HOUSING AND CHILDCARE AND TRANSPORTATION COSTS, RISING UTILITY BILLS ARE
JUST ANOTHER WAY THAT I KNOW ALL OF OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE BEING
SQUEEZED. THIS LEGISLATION IS SIMPLE. IT REQUIRES THAT GAS AND UTILITY --
GAS AND ELECTRICITY UTILITIES PROVIDE 45 DAYS' NOTICE TO CUSTOMERS THAT
THEY CAN EXPECT SUBSTANTIAL RATE INCREASES. THAT'S 45 DAYS FOR FAMILIES
TO PLAN AHEAD WHEN EVERY DOLLAR AND EVERY EXPENSE CAN MAKE OR BREAK
A MONTHLY BUDGET.
I'M PROUD TO STAND ALONGSIDE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE
COMMITTED TO PROTECTING OUR COMMUNITIES FROM THE WORST OF UTILITIES,
UNPREDICTABLE PRICING AND PROFITEERING. AT A BARE MINIMUM, OUR
CONSTITUENTS DESERVE THE TRANSPARENCY THAT THIS LEGISLATION PROVIDES.
THE TASK REMAINS FOR US IN THIS GREAT STATE TO END OUR
27
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
DEPENDENCE ON FOSSIL FUELS AND USHER IN A GREEN NEW YORK, BUT I'M
GRATEFUL TODAY THAT WE CAN DELIVER SOME MEASURE OF RELIEF TO THE
WORKING-CLASS FAMILIES THAT NEED IT.
I ALSO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO
DO THE SAME. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. VALDEZ IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 9, CALENDAR NO. 11, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00056-B, CALENDAR
NO. 11, EPSTEIN, BURDICK, GALLAGHER, KELLES, GLICK, REYES,
CUNNINGHAM, RAGA, CRUZ, SEAWRIGHT, DAVILA, LEVENBERG, BICHOTTE
HERMELYN, SCHIAVONI, LEE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW
AND THE GENERAL OBLIGATIONS LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING RESIDENTIAL
LANDLORDS FROM CHARGING TENANTS A FEE FOR A DISHONORED RENT CHECK IN
EXCESS OF THE ACTUAL COSTS OR FEES INCURRED BY SUCH LANDLORD AS A RESULT
THEREOF.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. GANDOLFO.
28
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE OPPOSED TO THIS BILL;
HOWEVER, MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE YES MAY DO SO AT THEIR DESKS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, THE
MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS -- IS GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN
EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. GANDOLFO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
WE HAD DEBATED THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF THIS BILL A FEW
WEEKS AGO, AND ONE ISSUE THAT MANY TOOK WAS THE FACT THAT IF A LANDLORD
INCURRED A FEE THAT WAS GREATER THAN $20 FOR RECEIVING A BOUNCED CHECK
FROM A TENANT, THAT LANDLORD WOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO RECOVER UP TO $20,
WHICH COULD POTENTIALLY LEAVE THEM AT A LOSS. THIS AMENDMENT DOES
ADDRESS THAT ISSUE AND WE ARE APPRECIATIVE OF THAT. NOW IF THE BOUNCED
CHECK FEE IS GREATER THAN $20, THE LANDLORD IS ABLE TO RECOUP THE ENTIRE
AMOUNT OF THE FEE THAT THEY INCURRED. HOWEVER, THIS DOES NOT ADDRESS
THE ISSUE OF ORAL MONTH-TO-MONTH LEASES AND ALLOWING THOSE LANDLORDS
TO COLLECT FEES FOR BOUNCED CHECKS.
SO FOR THAT REASON, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND
29
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
I'M SURE MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE THE SAME CONCERN. THANK YOU,
MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. GANDOLFO IN THE NEGATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 17, CALENDAR NO. 145, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01433-A, CALENDAR
NO. 145, HUNTER, WEPRIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN
RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR THE ISSUANCE OF PET INSURANCE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MR. GANDOLFO FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.
MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ON BEHALF OF OUR COLLEAGUE MATT SLATER, I HAVE THE
DISTINCT HONOR OF INTRODUCING GEORGE AND ELAINE JOYNER, WHO ARE FROM
30
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
BREWSTER, LOCATED IN THE LOVELY 94TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT. GEORGE HAS
BEEN RECOGNIZED AS ONE OF FIVE SENIORS OF THE YEAR IN PUTNAM COUNTY,
AND HE IS UP HERE VISITING US TODAY TO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR BEAUTIFUL STATE
CAPITOL AND SEE HOW WE RUN THINGS AROUND HERE.
SO MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD YOU PLEASE OFFER HIM ALL
THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF MR.
GANDOLFO, MR. SLATER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME
YOU, MR. AND MRS. JOYNER, TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER, THE PEOPLE'S
HOUSE. EXTENDING TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. CONGRATULATIONS
TO YOU, SIR, ON BEING ONE OF THE SENIORS OF THE YEAR, A PRESTIGIOUS
AWARD FOR SURE. WE HOPE YOU ENJOY THE PROCEEDINGS TODAY. THANK
YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
(APPLAUSE)
PAGE 18, CALENDAR NO. 150, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03280-A, CALENDAR
NO. 150, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, STIRPE, COLTON, CRUZ, JACKSON, GIBBS,
LEVENBERG, SEAWRIGHT, EPSTEIN, HYNDMAN, SIMON, LUCAS, DAVILA,
WEPRIN, ROZIC, MEEKS, LUNSFORD. AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE
LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE ELI PARKER LEVITT LAW.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1,
2027.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
31
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: YES, THANK YOU,
MADAM SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
FOR TOO LONG, WE HAVE SEEN PREVENTABLE STORIES LIKE
ELI PARKER LEVITT AND HIS PARENTS. THIS BILL WILL BE A HISTORIC STEP IN
ADDRESSING THE HIGH NUMBER OF PREMATURE BIRTHS AND DEATHS OF
PREMATURE BABIES. THIS BILL WILL NOT ONLY ALLOW EASIER ACCESS TO
TRANSVAGINAL ULTRASOUNDS, BUT WILL ALSO SERVE AS A STORY FOR BABIES LIKE
ELI TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE NOT JUST REMEMBERED AS STATISTICS BEFORE THE
SHORT LIVES THEY LIVED, AND THE CHANGES THAT WILL BECOME BECAUSE OF
THEIR LIVES.
FOR THIS, I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND URGE MY
COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN
INTRODUCTION.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERRUPT OUR PROCEEDINGS FOR THE
PURPOSE OF INTRODUCING A GUEST OF OUR COLLEAGUE NIKKI LUCAS. WE HAVE
32
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
WITH US TODAY SANDRA PINDER, WHO IS VISITING TODAY. MISS PINDER HAS
FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS BEEN A RESIDENT OF EAST NEW YORK AND A
HOMEOWNER FOR 35 OF THOSE YEARS. SHE IS AN AMAZING VOLUNTEER. THERE
IS A HUGE LIST OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT SHE HAS VOLUNTEERED HER LIFE TO, AND
FOR THAT WE HAVE TO DEFINITELY APPRECIATE HER.
SHE HAS WITH HER AS WELL, MADAM SPEAKER, HER
DAUGHTER EMERALD (PHONETIC) MITCHELL AND HER SON-IN-LAW, SHAWN
MITCHELL.
SO IF YOU WOULD PLEASE WELCOME THESE AMAZING
CITIZENS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO OUR CHAMBERS TODAY AND OFFER
THEM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR AND WELCOME THEM TO THE PEOPLE'S
HOUSE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF
CRYSTAL PEOPLES-STOKES, OUR MAJORITY LEADER, MEMBER LUCAS, THE
SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, OUR DISTINGUISHED
GUESTS, TO OUR ASSEMBLY CHAMBER AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE
FLOOR TO YOU. HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY. THANK YOU SO
VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
(APPLAUSE)
PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 255, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08482, RULES REPORT
NO. 255, CRUZ, BRONSON, JACOBSON, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING INSURANCE
CARRIERS AND EMPLOYERS FROM WITHHOLDING CERTAIN BENEFITS FROM INJURED
WORKERS BASED ON ATTACHMENT TO THE LABOR MARKET.
33
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. CRUZ.
WE'RE ON DEBATE. IF MEMBERS COULD KEEP THE NOISE
DOWN, PLEASE.
MS. CRUZ.
MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
THE PURPOSE OF THIS BILL IS TO ESTABLISH THAT ANY
CLAIMANT WHO IS CLASSIFIED BY THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION BOARD AS
HAVING A DISABILITY AND RECEIVES BENEFITS FOR SAID DISABILITY CANNOT HAVE
THOSE BENEFITS DENIED ON THE BASIS OF WHETHER THEY HAVE DEMONSTRATED
THEIR ONGOING ATTACHMENT TO THE LABOR MARKET.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. CRUZ: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU.
OKAY. SO LET'S JUST START AT THE BEGINNING, RIGHT? SO
COULD YOU FIRST TALK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A LABOR
MARKET ATTACHMENT?
MS. CRUZ: WELL, THERE'S CURRENTLY A REQUIREMENT FOR
CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS WHO GO IN FRONT OF THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION
34
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
BOARD AND ARE FILING A CLAIM TO BE ABLE TO ALSO DEMONSTRATE WHILE
THEY'RE RECEIVING BENEFITS THAT THEY HAVE GONE OUT AND CONTINUED TO
LOOK FOR WORK.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. AND -- AND WHY-- WHY DO -- IS
THAT SOMETHING THAT'S ESTABLISHED IN STATUTE, OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT
WAS ESTABLISHED THROUGH CASE LAW? WHERE'D THAT COME FROM?
MS. CRUZ: I'M SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR. CAN YOU REPEAT
THAT? AND -- AND MADAM SPEAKER, CAN WE --
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: COLLEAGUES, PLEASE.
WE'RE ON DEBATE. WE NEED SOME QUIET. PLEASE TAKE YOUR
CONVERSATIONS OUTSIDE. THANK YOU.
MS. CRUZ: CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?
MS. WALSH: YES, OF COURSE. WHAT I WAS ASKING
ABOUT WAS WHERE -- WHAT THE ORIGIN WAS OF THAT LABOR MARKET
ATTACHMENT REQUIREMENT THAT'S -- THAT'S CURRENTLY IN PLACE IN OUR CURRENT
LAW?
MS. CRUZ: MEANING IN -- IF IT'S IN STATUTE?
MS. WALSH: YEAH, IS IT IN STATUTE?
MS. CRUZ: YES, IT IS IN STATUTE.
MS. WALSH: I DIDN'T KNOW IF IT DEVELOPED DURING
CASE LAW OR DECISIONAL LAW.
MS. CRUZ: THAT'S -- I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE. BUT I
KNOW THAT IT'S CURRENTLY IN STATUTE.
MS. WALSH: OKAY.
MS. CRUZ: THERE WAS AN EVOLUTION OVER THE YEARS
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
WHERE PEOPLE WHO ARE DEEMED TO BE PERMANENTLY DISABLED AND THAT
WAS MAYBE, I WANT TO SAY 2017.
MS. WALSH: IT WAS.
MS. CRUZ: THERE -- THERE'S NO LONGER A REQUIREMENT
FOR THOSE WHO ARE PERMANENTLY, FULL AND PARTIALLY DISABLED, BUT THE --
THE REQUIREMENT REMAINS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE -- WHO ARE NOT
PERMANENTLY DISABLED OR PARTIALLY.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO -- AND THAT'S -- THAT'S EXACTLY
WHAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT NOW.
MS. CRUZ: YES.
MS. WALSH: SO IN 2017 THERE WAS A STATUTORY
CHANGE TO THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW THAT SAID THAT IF A CLAIMANT
IS ENTITLED TO BENEFITS AT THE TIME THE CLAIMANT IS FOUND TO BE
PERMANENTLY DISABLED, HE OR SHE NO LONGER NEEDS TO DEMONSTRATE
ONGOING ATTACHMENT TO THE LABOR MARKET. BUT IF YOU WERE PARTIALLY
DISABLED, THEN YOU -- YOU CONTINUE UNDER OUR CURRENT LAW TO BE -- TO
HAVE TO SHOW THIS LABOR MARKET ATTACHMENT; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. CRUZ: IT'S ONLY FOR TEMPORARY PARTIAL.
MS. WALSH: TEMPORARY PARTIAL. BUT THIS BILL
WOULD ELIMINATE THAT REQUIREMENT OF LABOR MARKET ATTACHMENT. IN OTHER
WORDS, THAT PERSON WITH A TEMPORARY PARTIAL DISABILITY WOULD NOT NEED
TO SUBMIT FORMS OR SHOW AN ONGOING ATTEMPT TO -- TO WORK, EVEN WITHIN
THE LIMITATIONS THAT THEY ARE EXPERIENCING.
MS. CRUZ: SO THIS WOULD BE FOR A TEMPORARY PARTIAL
AND TEMPORARY FULL DISABILITY, AND THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE
36
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
EXPERIENCING THAT THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION BOARD WOULD NO LONGER
REQUIRE THEM TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY'RE CONTINUING TO LOOK FOR WORK IN
ORDER TO ENSURE THAT THE CARRIER OF INSURANCE IS CONTINUING TO PAY THEIR
BENEFITS.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. BUT IF -- SO UNDER OUR CURRENT
LAW, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THAT REQUIREMENT IS ON THE
CLAIMANT. THE CLAIMANT HAS TO SUBMIT CERTAIN FORMS OUTLINING HIS OR
HER EFFORTS TO OBTAIN -- TO WORK, TO CONTINUE TO WORK, AND WHETHER THE
CLAIMANT ACTUALLY MAINTAINS SUFFICIENT ATTACHMENT TO THE LABOR MARKET
TO JUSTIFY CONTINUED COMPENSATION BENEFITS IS A FACTUAL DETERMINATION
FOR THE BOARD, RIGHT?
MS. CRUZ: YES. THEY HAVE TO SUBMIT A FORM, AND
THERE ARE -- THERE IS ENUMERATED LIST OF QUESTIONS THAT THE BOARD LOOKS
AT, INCLUDING IF THERE IS AN INDEPENDENT JOB SURGE, ACTIVE PARTICIPATION
OF VOCATIONAL AND REHABILITATION THROUGH ADULT AND CAREER CENTERS, OTHER
JOB TRAINING PROGRAMS, AND ATTENDANCE TO ACCREDITED EDUCATIONAL
INSTITUTION AND FULL-TIME PURSUE EMPLOYMENT. WHICH, YOU KNOW, FOR
SOMEONE WHO IS NOT INJURED, IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IT'S AN ONEROUS
REQUEST. BUT IF YOU ARE A PERSON WHO IS TRYING TO GO TO PHYSICAL
THERAPY WHO MAY HAVE AN INJURY THAT EVEN IF IT'S NOT PERMANENT, SHOULD
BE -- KEEPS YOU LIMITED FROM MOVEMENT AND KEEPS YOU LIMITED FROM
GOING OUT TO DO ALL THESE THINGS, THIS CAN BECOME AN ONEROUS
REQUIREMENT IN ORDER TO RECEIVE NOT EVEN FULL PAYMENT OF YOUR WAGES.
MS. WALSH: RIGHT. BUT WHY -- WHY WOULDN'T WE
WANT CLAIMANTS TO CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR WORK? ARE YOU SAYING THAT -- IF
37
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
I'M HEARING YOU CORRECTLY, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE MERE ACT
OF GETTING ONLINE AND LOOKING FOR OTHER WORK OR MAKING CALLS OR
WHATEVER THEY WOULD NEED TO DO TO MEET THOSE CRITERIA WOULD STAND IN
THE WAY OF THEM HEALING FROM THEIR INJURIES OR SOMETHING.
MS. CRUZ: IT -- IT CAN. IT CAN. IT DEPENDS ON THE
SITUATION. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING TO MAKE SURE NOT
ONLY THAT THEY ARE GETTING THE PARTIAL BENEFIT THAT THEY HAVE ALREADY
BEEN DEEMED ENTITLED TO GET, BUT LOOK, IF THE EMPLOYER WANTS TO OFFER
THEM OTHER OPTIONS AND ACCOMMODATE THEIR INJURY DURING THAT TIME
WHICH WHERE THEY'RE NOT PERMANENTLY DISABLED, THE EMPLOYER CAN
CERTAINLY DO THAT. BUT WE SHOULDN'T -- WE SHOULDN'T REQUIRE THAT
SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN HURT AT WORK, ALREADY BEEN DETERMINED TO BE
HURT AT WORK, ALREADY BEEN DETERMINED TO BE ENTITLED TO THOSE BENEFITS,
TO HAVE TO NOW DO EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN AND IN THEIR POWER.
BECAUSE IF -- IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT THESE REQUIREMENTS ARE, AGAIN, FOR
SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN INJURED, THEY CAN BE VERY ONEROUS. AND WE
SHOULDN'T REQUIRE THAT IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CAN GET THEIR
MEASLY COUPLE OF DOLLARS THAT THEY'RE GETTING RIGHT NOW, WHICH I THINK IT
SHOULD BE A LOT MORE BUT THAT'S NOT FOR THIS DEBATE.
MS. WALSH: YEAH. I -- I DON'T KNOW IF AN
EMPLOYER WOULD AGREE THAT IT'S A MEASLY COUPLE OF DOLLARS. I MEAN, IT --
IT'S -- IT'S BENEFITS. I MEAN, WE KNOW, I THINK WE KNOW THAT NEW YORK
--
MS. CRUZ: WELL, I MEAN --
(CROSS-TALK)
38
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MS. WALSH: -- HAS GOT THE SECOND-MOST --
MS. CRUZ: BUT FOR SOMEONE WHO'S --
MS. WALSH: I'M SO SORRY.
MS. CRUZ: NO, NO. GO AHEAD. I WAS GONNA SAY FOR
SOMEONE WHO'S GETTING PARTIAL, AND IT'S NOT EVEN FULL PARTIAL, IT'S PARTIAL
OF THE PARTIAL, THAT PERCENTAGE FOR SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN USED TO GETTING
A FULL SALARY, IT DOES FEEL LIKE A MEASLY COUPLE OF DOLLARS WHEN YOU'RE
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET -- HOW TO GET CARE FOR -- FOR THEIR INJURY,
HOW TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILY, HOW TO PAY RENT. IT BECOMES A
DECISION OF AM I GONNA GO TO CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR WORK EVEN THOUGH
I'M NOT PHYSICALLY READY TO AND I'M NOT HEALTHY ENOUGH TO DO IT, IN
ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT AN INSURANCE COMPANY, A CARRIER, IS CONTINUING
TO PAY. AND -- AND SINCE YOU MENTIONED THE EMPLOYER, YOU KNOW, THE
EMPLOYER IS -- IS PAYING THE PREMIUM INTO AN INSURANCE COMPANY, INTO
A CARRIER WHO'S NOW THEN, IN TURN, PAYING THE WORKER, AGAIN, A VERY
PARTIAL AMOUNT OF WHAT THEY SHOULD BE GETTING.
MS. WALSH: RIGHT. BUT IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT LIKE THE --
THE INSURERS ARE ALSO CHARGING EMPLOYERS A CERTAIN CHARGE AND RATE AND
EXPERIENCE FOR THEIR (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --
MS. CRUZ: OH, THEY'RE -- THEY'RE OFTEN INCREASING IT.
YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD FROM -- FROM ATTORNEYS WHO REPRESENT WORKERS
THAT THERE'S BEEN SITUATIONS WHERE THE INSURANCE COMPANY WILL TURN
AROUND AND DENY THE CLAIMANT, AND THEN TURN AROUND AND INCREASE THE
AMOUNT THAT THEY'RE CHARGING THAT SAME EMPLOYER. SO THERE -- IT'S
ALMOST LIKE A WIN-WIN FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PAYING THE WORKER
39
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
AND THEY'RE GETTING MORE MONEY FROM THE EMPLOYER.
MS. WALSH: MM. WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS: SO
YOU -- YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT THAT THESE ARE ONLY TEMPORARY PAYMENTS,
BUT HOW TEMPORARY ARE THEY? CAN'T THEY GO ON FOR QUITE A WHILE WHILE
THE CASES ARE MOVING FORWARD?
MS. CRUZ: WELL, THEY'RE -- THEY'RE CAPPED AT TEN
YEARS, BUT IF THE PERSON BECOMES ABLE TO WORK BEFORE THOSE TEN YEARS,
WHICH WE CERTAINLY HOPE THAT THEY CAN, THEN -- APOLOGIES -- THEN THAT
PAYMENT WOULD STOP WHEN THEY'RE ABLE TO GO FULL-TIME BACK TO WORK.
AND IF DURING THAT TIME -- BECAUSE NOTHING IS ACTUALLY STOPPING THE
WORKER FROM -- FROM WORKING. IF IN SPITE OF THE INJURY THEY ARE ABLE TO
FIND AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK THAT ACCOMMODATES THEIR TEMPORARY
DISABILITY, THEN THAT BENEFIT WOULD BE REDUCED FROM THAT POINT ON TO
ACTUALLY MATCH THE -- THE AMOUNT.
MS. WALSH: BUT IF -- IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO DO THAT,
THEN UNDER THIS BILL THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO EVEN MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO
SEEK THAT KIND OF WORK THAT -- THAT WORKS WITHIN THE INJURIES OR
LIMITATIONS THAT THEY HAVE. THEY COULD JUST SIT BACK FOR UP TO TEN YEARS
AND COLLECT A PARTIAL BENEFIT WHILE THEIR -- WHILE THEIR CASE IS ONGOING,
RIGHT?
MS. CRUZ: I WOULD FRAME IT DIFFERENTLY. I WOULD
FRAME IT AS --
MS. WALSH: YEAH.
MS. CRUZ: -- IF SOMEONE'S BEEN INJURED AT WORK AND
IT'S BEEN DETERMINED THAT THEY CAN GET THIS PARTICULAR TYPE OF BENEFIT
40
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
AND THEY GET BETTER BEFORE THE TEN YEARS, THEN THEY GET THE BENEFIT FOR
THAT DURATION OF TIME. IF THEY ARE UNABLE TO LOOK FOR WORK, THEN WHAT
WE'RE SAYING WITH THIS BILL IS WE'RE NOT GOING TO CONDITION YOUR ABILITY
TO GET THE BENEFIT THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DETERMINED YOU'RE ENTITLED TO WITH
YOUR ABILITY TO LOOK FOR WORK.
MS. WALSH: WELL, I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS VERY
MUCH.
MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.
MS. WALSH: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.
MS. WALSH: SO AS I STARTED TO SAY A LITTLE BIT EARLIER,
THE -- WORKERS' COMPENSATION IS KIND OF INDIRECTLY PAID FOR BY
EMPLOYERS, BECAUSE EMPLOYERS ARE CHARGED BY INSURERS AND -- AND
THOSE COSTS ARE -- ARE INCREASING, YOU KNOW, EVERY DAY, EVERY YEAR. IF
YOU ASK AN AVERAGE EMPLOYER IN NEW YORK THEY WILL SAY THAT THE COSTS
THAT THEY PAY ARE SUBSTANTIAL. WE KNOW THAT NEW YORK STATE RANKS
ONLY SECOND BEHIND NEW JERSEY IN -- IN TERMS OF ITS WORKERS'
COMPENSATION COSTS.
WE'VE -- WE'VE SPOKEN SO MANY TIMES IN THE CHAMBER
ABOUT THE UNFAVORABLE BUSINESS CLIMATE THAT WE HAVE IN THIS STATE. WE
ARE THE LEAST BUSINESS-FRIENDLY STATE IN THE NATION. WE HAVE THE HIGHEST
TAXES. WE HAVE SOME OF THE HIGHEST INSURANCE COSTS THAT I THINK WHEN
WE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS BILL, I THINK -- I CAN UNDERSTAND IN SOME RESPECTS
WHY IN 2017 WE SAID THAT IF YOU HAD A PERMANENT TOTAL DISABILITY THAT
YOU NO LONGER NEEDED TO DEMONSTRATE ONGOING ATTACHMENT TO THE LABOR
41
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MARKET, BUT HERE NOW WE'RE EXTENDING IT EVEN FURTHER. WE'RE SAYING
THAT IF YOU HAVE A TEMPORARY PARTIAL DISABILITY -- AND TEMPORARY, AS THE
SPONSOR NOTED, CAN GO ON FOR YEARS, FOR YEARS -- THAT DURING THAT TIME IT
SEEMS TO ME REASONABLE THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXPECT A CLAIMANT TO
AT LEAST MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO TRY TO SEEK WORK THAT THEY CAN PERFORM AND
THAT -- JUST AS WE DO WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED. WE ASK PEOPLE
WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED TO MAKE A REASONABLE ATTEMPT TO FIND OTHER WORK.
WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO RECEIVE PUBLIC ASSISTANCE TO MAKE A REASONABLE
ATTEMPT TO BE DOING THINGS TO GET THEMSELVES OFF OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE.
SO I THINK THAT THIS BILL REPRESENTS A DEPARTURE THAT WE
SHOULD NOT BE ENTERTAINING HERE AS -- AS A LEGISLATURE. I THINK THAT IT IS
NOT UNREASONABLE TO ASK PEOPLE TO MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO FIND WORK THAT
THEY CAN DO, AND I -- YOU KNOW, THERE HAS BEEN A CONCERN RAISED BY THE
INDUSTRY THAT THIS COULD RESULT IN FRAUD, AND THIS COULD RESULT IN PEOPLE
-- I WOULD USE THE TERM MALINGERING -- PEOPLE MAY MALINGER BECAUSE
THEY'RE GETTING PAID REGARDLESS OF HOW HARD THEY'RE WORKING AT GETTING
BACK TO WORK.
SO FOR THOSE REASONS, I AM OPPOSED TO THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ALSO VOTE NO ON
THIS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: THANK YOU.
MR. DURSO.
MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?
MS. CRUZ: YES.
42
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. DURSO: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MR. DURSO: JUST A COUPLE OF CLARIFYING QUESTIONS.
THIS BILL IS -- IS REALLY ONLY IN EFFECT WHILE SOMEONE IS OUT ON
WORKMAN'S [SIC] COMP, CORRECT?
MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT. AND -- AND IT'S TEMPORARY
WHILE THEY'RE OUT, YES.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO TO RECEIVE WORKMAN'S [SIC]
COMP BENEFITS AN INJURY HAS TO BE ESTABLISHED, CORRECT?
MS. CRUZ: THAT IS CORRECT.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. AND NOW WHILE THAT EMPLOYEE
IS RECEIVING THOSE BENEFITS THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY GOING THROUGH A
COMPENSATION CASE, SEEING A DOCTOR, GOING THROUGH REHAB AT THAT TIME,
CORRECT?
MS. CRUZ: MOST, YES.
MR. DURSO: MOST OF THE TIME. OKAY.
SO JUST FOR INSTANCE, I USED TO WORK IN SANITATION. A
LOT OF PEOPLE GET HURT. I'D HAVE A GUY GET HIS SHOULDER BEAT UP AND HE
WOULD END UP BEING DETERMINED THAT HE LOST 30 PERCENT OF THE USE OF
HIS SHOULDER, BUT YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO WORK FULL DUTY BUT
UNDERSTANDING THAT 30 PERCENT OF THAT SHOULDER IS NOW DEAD. ONCE THAT
DOCTOR HAS NOW ESTABLISHED SAYING YOU COULD GO BACK TO WORK
FULL-TIME, RIGHT, WITH NO RESTRICTIONS, DOES -- DO THEN THEY STILL QUALIFY
FOR THE WORKMAN'S [SIC] COMP BENEFITS THROUGH THIS BILL?
43
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MS. CRUZ: NO, AND I THINK THE KEY WORD HERE IS
"DETERMINED." THERE HAS BEEN A DETERMINATION MADE AT -- AT A CERTAIN
POINT THAT THERE IS A NON-PERMANENT INJURY, AND WHEN THAT HAS HEALED
THERE IS ANOTHER DETERMINATION MADE THAT YOU'RE READY TO GO BACK TO
WORK EVEN AT 30 PERCENT. OR, YOU KNOW, IT -- MAYBE IT IS A PERMANENT
INJURY, BUT THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN CARE OF IN PRIOR LEGISLATION. BUT UNDER
HERE, UNDER THE -- THE -- THE BILL THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW, IT ONLY
IMPACTS THE ABILITY OF SOMEONE TO GET THE BENEFIT THEY'VE BEEN
DETERMINED TO QUALIFY FOR DURING THE TIME THAT THEY'VE BEEN DETERMINED
TO BE INJURED.
MR. DURSO: SO WHILE THEY'RE GETTING PT, WHILE
THEY'RE UNDER THE CARE OF A DOCTOR WAITING TO SEE IF THEY CAN RETURN TO
WORK, THAT'S WHEN THEY'RE RECEIVING THESE BENEFITS?
MS. CRUZ: YES. THAT'S CORRECT.
MR. DURSO: SO UNDER THIS BILL, DOES AN EMPLOYEE
THEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE GOING BACK TO WORK ONCE THE DOCTOR HAS
SAID, YOU COULD RETURN TO WORK FULL DUTY?
MS. CRUZ: THE -- THE BILL DOES NOT CHANGE THE
CURRENT LEGAL REQUIREMENT. YES, NO.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. AND THEN ONCE THAT EMPLOYEE
DOES GO BACK TO WORK AT FULL DUTY OR A DOCTOR SAYS, YOU CAN NOW GO
BACK INTO THE WORK FIELD WITH WHATEVER THE DISABILITY IS PERCENTAGE
AMOUNT, DO THEN THE WORKMAN'S [SIC] COMP PAYMENTS STOP?
MS. CRUZ: YES.
MR. DURSO: OKAY. THANK YOU, MS. CRUZ, I
44
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: MS. CRUZ ON
THE BILL.
MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JUST WANT TO
ADDRESS A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WERE SAID DURING THE DEBATE TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE ARE CLEAR ABOUT THE PICTURE THAT WE'RE PAINTING HERE ABOUT
WORKERS AND EMPLOYERS.
THIS IS A TEMPORARY BENEFIT. AS MY PRIOR COLLEAGUE
HIGHLIGHTED, ONCE A PERSON'S INJURY HAS BEEN HEALED, ONCE THEY'RE ABLE
TO GO BACK TO WORK, THEY HAVE A LEGAL REQUIREMENT TO GO BACK TO WORK.
WE ARE IN NO WAY SAYING YOU CAN STAY ON THIS BENEFIT FOR THE REST OF
YOUR LIFE. IF YOU ARE THEN NOW DETERMINED TO BE HEALED BECAUSE THERE
IS A LEGAL DETERMINATION BY DOCTORS, BY THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION
BOARD, THAT SOMEHOW YOU ARE NOW ABLE TO CONTINUE TO GET THE BENEFIT,
NO. THE BENEFITS STOP, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO WORK.
ADDITIONALLY, YOU KNOW, AND -- AND ANECDOTALLY, IN
SPEAKING TO ATTORNEYS THAT REPRESENT WORKERS AND IN SPEAKING EVEN TO
THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION BOARD FOLKS, THE MAJORITY OF CASES THAT END
UP IN LITIGATION IN FRONT OF THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION BOARD DEAL WITH
A DETERMINATION AROUND -- AROUND THE ISSUE OF MARKET ATTACHMENT. AND
THIS WILL SAVE THOUSANDS AND IF -- IF NOT, EVEN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR THE
WORKERS' COMPENSATION BOARD THAT SHOULD GO TO SERVING THE STATE IN
OTHER WAYS. IT'S GOING TO SAVE MONEY EVEN TO EMPLOYERS BECAUSE
HOPEFULLY WE WON'T SEE CARRIERS ENGAGING IN THE BEHAVIOR THAT I
45
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
HIGHLIGHTED EARLIER WHERE THEY DENY A WORKER THEIR COVERAGE AND TURN
AROUND AND RAISE THE RATES OF AN EMPLOYER. IT'S -- I'VE HEARD IT SEVERAL
TIMES, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT ALSO IS SOMETHING THAT STOPS.
AND LASTLY -- ACTUALLY, TWO MORE THINGS. WHEN IT
COMES TO FRAUD, THIS BILL DOES NOT CHANGE THE CURRENT PROCEDURE THAT IF
EITHER AN EMPLOYER OR THE CARRIER SUSPECT THAT A WORKER IS ENGAGING IN
FRAUD BECAUSE THEY ARE ACTUALLY HEALTHY NOW AND CAN GO BACK TO WORK
AND ARE REFUSING TO DO SO OR FAKING THEIR INJURY OR WHATEVER IT IS, THE
IG'S OFFICE HAS A PROCESS BY WHERE YOU CAN REFER A CASE. THE
INVESTIGATION IS DONE, A WORKER IS DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN COMMITTING
FRAUD AND THEY HAVE TO PAY BACK THE MONEY. THIS BILL DOESN'T CHANGE
THAT. THAT PROCESS STILL CONTINUES.
AND LASTLY, THERE WAS AN ARGUMENT AROUND OTHER TYPES
OF BENEFITS THAT -- THAT ARE AWARDED BY THE STATE OR THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT WHERE WE HAVE A WORK -- A -- A REQUIREMENT FOR THE PERSON
TO ACTUALLY LOOK FOR WORK. THERE'S BEEN STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT THOSE --
THAT THOSE REQUIREMENTS ACTUALLY DON'T WORK AND DON'T ENTICE PEOPLE TO
GO BACK TO WORK. BUT IF ANYTHING, WE SHOULD BE MOVING AWAY FROM
THAT. AND THIS ISN'T, LIKE, SOMEONE WHO IS UNEMPLOYED AND SHOULD BE
GOING TO LOOK FOR WORK. THIS IS SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN DEEMED INJURED
EITHER PARTIALLY OR FULLY, BUT NOT PERMANENTLY. AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE ARE GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAL PROPERLY, TO
SURVIVE, BECAUSE THIS IS THE MONEY THAT THEY'RE GONNA USE TO PAY RENT
AND TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES. AND -- AND LISTEN, NOTHING STOPS THE
EMPLOYER. IF THE EMPLOYER IS IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN OFFER THE
46
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
WORKER SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT AND ACCOMMODATE THEIR INJURY, THEY
CAN DO THAT AS WELL. BUT WE SHOULD NOT PUT THIS ON A WORKER WHO
SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON GOING TO PHYSICAL THERAPY, ON SEEING THE DOCTOR,
AND ON HEALING.
AND WITH THAT, I'M GONNA BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE
LATER AND I HOPE MY COLLEAGUES DO THE SAME. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: THANK YOU.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: A PARTY VOTE
HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. YES, THE
MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, IF THERE'S ANYONE WHO WISHES TO VOTE IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE THEY MAY DO SO NOW AT THEIR SEATS.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: MS. BICHOTTE
HERMELYN.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. THIS IS A PARTY VOTE, AND THE MAJORITY WILL BE VOTING IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE CAN DO SO AT THEIR
DESK.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
47
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
MR. JACOBSON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. JACOBSON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO
EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
I WAS A WORKERS' COMPENSATION JUDGE. I ALSO
PRACTICED WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW FOR OVER 20 YEARS. NEARLY ALL
OF MY CLIENTS WANTED TO GO BACK TO WORK. THEY COULDN'T REALLY AFFORD
LIVING ON WHAT THEY WERE GETTING FROM WORKERS' COMP. ONE OF THE
MAJOR DELAYS IN GETTING PEOPLE BACK TO WORK IS THE DENIAL OF TREATMENT.
AND THIS GOES AN ENDLESS PATH, AND -- AND YOU GET INTO A CYCLE WHERE
YOU WANT TO GET TREATED AND THEN THEY SAY NO. YOU WANT TO GET
PHYSICAL THERAPY AND THEY SAY YOU HAD ENOUGH. THEY'RE TRYING TO AVOID
SURGERY. AND MOST OF THESE PEOPLE CAN'T DO THEIR REGULAR JOB AND THEY
HAVE TO GET RETRAINED. AND THAT'S ANOTHER WAY THAT THEY TRY TO SAY --
AND EVEN THOUGH IF YOU'RE RETRAINING THAT CAN BE AN EXCEPTION TO THE
RULE. IT'S DIFFICULT TO RETRAIN. IT'S DIFFICULT THEN TO GET A NEW JOB IN YOUR
NEW OCCUPATION.
SO I THINK THAT THIS -- THIS IS A GREAT BILL, AND I WOULD
URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: MR. JACOBSON
IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL HAS PASSED.
PAGE 5, RULES REPORT NO. 151 -- 154, THE CLERK WILL
48
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
READ.
THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S00952-B, RULES REPORT
NO. 154, SENATOR KAVANAGH (A06423-A, LASHER, ROSENTHAL). AN ACT
TO AMEND THE GENERAL OBLIGATIONS LAW, IN RELATION TO THE LIABILITY OF A
GRANTEE OR ASSIGNEE FOR DEPOSITS MADE BY TENANTS UPON CONVEYANCE OF
RENT-STABILIZED DWELLING UNITS.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: AN
EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. LASHER.
MR. LASHER: THANK YOU.
THIS BILL WOULD EXTEND PROTECTIONS RELATED TO SECURITY
DEPOSITS THAT WERE PROVIDED TO MARKET RATE TENANTS UNDER THE 2019
HSTPA TO RENT-STABILIZED TENANTS. IT WOULD HARMONIZE THOSE
PROTECTIONS. THEY WERE HARMONIZED PRIOR TO THE ENACTMENT OF HSTPA
IN 2019. THEY HAVE BEEN OUT OF HARMONY FOR SEVERAL YEARS, AND THIS
WOULD REHARMONIZE THEM.
MS. WALSH: MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD
FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD?
MR. LASHER: CERTAINLY.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: THE SPONSOR
WILL YIELD.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND I
APOLOGIZE, I -- THERE ISN'T THAT MUCH NOISE IN THE CHAMBER, BUT I'M --
49
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
I'M JUST NOT HEARING YOU SUPER WELL. SO I JUST HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS FOR
YOU JUST TO CLARIFY WHAT THE BILL DOES.
COULD YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SPECIFICALLY UNDER THIS
BILL WHAT LANDLORDS ARE REQUIRED TO DO REGARDING THE SECURITY DEPOSIT?
LIKE, WHAT ARE THEY REQUIRED TO DO UNDER THIS BILL?
MR. LASHER: WELL, THAT'S THE ENTIRE -- THE ENTIRETY
OF THE BILL. IT HAS A RANGE OF PROVISIONS. IS THERE SOMETHING SPECIFIC
YOU'RE CURIOUS ABOUT?
MS. WALSH: NO, I WANTED YOU TO GIVE AN OVERVIEW
FOR OUR COLLEAGUES, PLEASE.
MR. LASHER: I -- I WOULD -- IN GENERAL, WHAT THE
BILL REQUIRES IS THAT LANDLORDS COLLECT NO MORE THAN ONE MONTH'S WORTH
OF SECURITY DEPOSIT AND RETURN IT TO TENANTS UNLESS THERE IS ITEMIZABLE
DAMAGE OR REPAIR NEEDED TO THE APARTMENT. THAT IS SORT OF THE STANDARD
PRACTICE. AGAIN, THIS IS THE -- THESE -- THIS IS WHAT HAS -- HAS BEEN
PRESENTLY AFFORDED TO MORE THAN A MILLION MARKET RATE TENANTS IN THE
CITY OF NEW YORK. THIS WOULD APPLY THOSE PROTECTIONS TO A GROUP OF
TENANTS THAT IS TRADITIONALLY BETTER PROTECTED THAN MARKET RATE TENANTS,
RENT-STABILIZED TENANTS.
MS. WALSH: SO THIS BILL ONLY APPLIES TO NEW YORK
CITY, THEN; IS THAT CORRECT?
MR. LASHER: THIS BILL APPLIES TO RENT-STABILIZED
TENANTS IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK.
MS. WALSH: IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK. OKAY.
SO AS YOU SAID, BACK IN 2019, THE HOUSING STABILITY
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
AND TENANT PROTECTION ACT OF 2019 WAS PASSED, AND -- AND THAT'S THE
BILL THAT CONTAINED MIRROR PROVISIONS, I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY, BECAUSE
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HARMONY AND HARMONIZING THE TWO TYPES OF RENTAL
SITUATIONS. ALL OF THESE PROVISIONS WERE MADE APPLICABLE TO LANDLORDS
OF NON-RENT-STABILIZED UNITS, CORRECT?
MR. LASHER: THAT'S CORRECT.
MS. WALSH: AND SO WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT
BASICALLY TAKES ALL THE THINGS FROM THE HOUSING STABILITY AND TENANT
PROTECTION ACT OF 2019 AND IT -- IT APPLIES IT TO RENT-STABILIZED HOUSING
AS WELL IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK?
MR. LASHER: WELL, NOT ALL THE THINGS. IT WOULD JUST
TAKE THOSE PROTECTIONS RELATED TO SECURITY DEPOSITS. IT'S FAIRLY LIMITED.
MS. WALSH: OKAY.
SO, AGAIN, AS YOU -- AS YOU SAID, THE -- AND IT IS A LONG
-- IT IS A LONG BILL. WE -- WE DON'T NEED TO READ THE WHOLE THING OUT
LOUD. BUT THE LANDLORD'S GOT TO PROVIDE AN ITEMIZED STATEMENT FOR ANY
PORTION OF THE DEPOSIT THAT'S BEING WITHHELD. THE ENTIRE SECURITY
DEPOSIT MUST BE RETURNED UNLESS THERE ARE REASONABLE AND ITEMIZED
COSTS DUE TO NONPAYMENT OF RENT, DAMAGE TO THE PROPERTY, NONPAYMENT
OF UTILITIES, OR MOVEMENT AND STORAGE OF THE TENANT'S BELONGINGS.
THERE'S A -- THERE ARE PROVISIONS INVOLVING INSPECTION OF THE CONDITION
OF THE PREMISES WITH THE LANDLORD BEFORE TAKING OCCUPANCY, AND I THINK
ALSO AT THE END. AND THAT AFTER INSPECTION BEFORE THE TENANT MOVES IN,
THE TENANT AND THE LANDLORD HAVE TO EXECUTE A WRITTEN AGREEMENT
ATTESTING THE CONDITION OF THE PROPERTY WHICH SPECIFICALLY NOTES ANY
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
EXISTING DEFECTS OR DAMAGES PRIOR TO THE TENANT MOVING IN. I MEAN, THAT
-- IT'S -- IT'S THAT -- IT'S THAT FLAVOR OF THINGS, RIGHT?
MR. LASHER: WELL, I THINK -- I THINK -- WITH
RESPECT, I THINK --
MS. WALSH: YEAH.
MR. LASHER: -- WE SHOULDN'T OVERSTATE WHAT'S --
WHAT'S HERE.
MS. WALSH: OKAY.
MR. LASHER: THE -- THE -- THE PROVISIONS RELATED TO
THE WRITTEN AGREEMENTS, THAT'S IN A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE, FOR EXAMPLE,
UPON EXIT THERE ARE DEDUCTIONS BEING MADE TO THE SECURITY DEPOSIT.
THIS MERELY GIVES THE TENANT SOME -- SOME ABILITY TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE
NOT BEING CHARGED UNFAIRLY. IT'S NOT -- I -- I THINK IT WOULD BE IN A VERY
SMALL PERCENTAGE OF CASES THAT -- THAT THE INSPECTION WOULD GET MADE
ON EITHER THE FRONT END OR THE BACK END. AND AGAIN, I THINK IT'S JUST
REALLY IMPORTANT TO COME BACK TO THE FACT THAT FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW,
THESE PROTECTIONS HAVE APPLIED TO MORE THAN A MILLION MARKET RATE
TENANTS IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, I HAVEN'T
HEARD BOO ABOUT IT. AND I CAN'T IMAGINE APPLYING THEM TO A GROUP OF
TENANTS WHO IS [SIC] IN GENERAL FAR BETTER PROTECTED BY THE LAW, WOULD
CAUSE ANY PROBLEM AT ALL.
MS. WALSH: WELL, AND -- AND QUITE HONESTLY, AS A
REPRESENTATIVE FROM A SUBURBAN RURAL AREA OF UPSTATE NEW YORK, I -- I
WOULD BE VERY UNLIKELY TO BE HEARING ABOUT ANY ISSUES IF THEY OCCURRED.
MR. LASHER: I'D BE -- I'D BE CURIOUS TO KNOW IF ANY
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
OF YOUR COLLEAGUES WHO REPRESENT THE CITY OF NEW YORK HAVE HEARD
ISSUES WITHIN THEIR DISTRICTS RELATED TO FRICTION CAUSED BY THE SECURITY
DEPOSIT PROVISIONS OF THE 2019 LAW. AGAIN, I HAVE A LOT OF
RENT-STABILIZED HOUSING IN MY DISTRICT AND A LOT OF MARKET RATE HOUSING
IN MY DISTRICT, AND THAT HAS NOT -- THE PROBLEMS CREATED BY THE 2019 LAW
IN THE AREA OF SECURITY DEPOSITS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT COME TO MY DESK.
THESE ARE REASONABLE PROTECTIONS. I THINK THEY'RE PROTECTIONS THAT ANY
OF US WHO RENT AN APARTMENT AND PUT DOWN A SECURITY DEPOSIT ARE SORT
OF CONSIDERED TO BE NORMAL AND EXPECTED, AND THIS SIMPLY PUTS THEM
INTO LAW.
MS. WALSH: VERY GOOD.
SO IF THE LANDLORD GETS IT WRONG UNDER THIS BILL, THEY'RE
LIABLE FOR PUNITIVE DAMAGES UP TO TWICE THE AMOUNT OF THE DEPOSIT OR
ADVANCE, CORRECT?
MR. LASHER: IF YOU CAN JUST POINT ME TO THE LINE
YOU'RE LOOKING AT, PLEASE.
MS. WALSH: WELL... OH, MY GOD. I DON'T KNOW THAT
I COULD.
MR. LASHER: I'D BE HAPPY TO ADDRESS ANY -- ANY
PART OF THE BILL YOU'D LIKE TO DISCUSS.
MS. WALSH: HOW ABOUT THE PART ABOUT PENALTIES TO
THE LANDLORD? CAN YOU FIND THAT SECTION?
MR. LASHER: JUST POINT ME TO THE LINE.
(PAUSE)
MS. WALSH: WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN. THIS
53
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
SEEMS TO BE HAVE BEEN WRITTEN BY AN ATTORNEY. THIS IS VERY LONG.
MR. LASHER: IT PROBABLY WAS JUST COPIED AND
PASTED FROM THE SECTION OF LAW THAT IT'S BEEN IN FOR THE LAST SEVERAL
YEARS.
MS. WALSH: I'M BETTING THAT THAT WAS WRITTEN BY AN
ATTORNEY, TOO, RIGHT?
MR. LASHER: I SHOULD HOPE SO.
MS. WALSH: YEAH. ALL RIGHT. WELL, I CAN'T -- I
CAN'T POINT YOU TO THAT. BUT DO YOU HAPPEN TO INDEPENDENTLY KNOW,
WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE -- A LINE OF THE BILL WHETHER YOUR BILL CONTAINS
ANY KIND OF PENALTIES AGAINST A LANDLORD WHO DOESN'T COMPLY WITH THE
BILL?
MR. LASHER: THERE -- THERE ARE PENALTIES FOR
WILLFUL VIOLATIONS.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. AND WHERE IS THAT IN THE BILL?
MR. LASHER: ON LINE -- ON THE COPY THAT I HAVE IT
IS IN -- I'M LOOKING AT A PARAGRAPH 8. IT IS ON LINE 47 OF MY PAGE 2.
MS. WALSH: YES, I SEE THAT. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO
THERE'S PUNITIVE DAMAGES -- THERE YOU GO. LIABLE FOR PUNITIVE DAMAGES
OF UP TO TWICE THE AMOUNT OF THE DEPOSIT OR ADVANCE. BUT YOU'RE --
YOU'RE CORRECT, IT DOES SAY ON LINE 48 THAT IT'S FOR WILLFUL VIOLATIONS.
OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO NOT SIMPLE MISTAKES THEN. ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD.
I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS --
MR. LASHER: THANK YOU.
MS. WALSH: -- MR. LASHER.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: ON THE BILL.
MS. WALSH: SO, IF YOU LIKED THE PROVISIONS OF THE
2019 HOUSING STABILITY AND TENANT PROTECTION ACT, THEN THIS BILL WILL
NOT BOTHER YOU IN THE LEAST BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY TAKING THOSE PROVISIONS
RELATING TO SECURITY DEPOSITS AND APPLYING IT TO A LARGER GROUP OF NOW
RENT-STABILIZED HOUSING IN NEW YORK CITY. IF YOU DIDN'T AND YOU FELT
THAT THOSE PROVISIONS WERE ONEROUS OR BURDENSOME OR COSTLY OR CREATED
A DISINCENTIVE FOR LANDLORDS IN NEW YORK CITY TO DO THE WORK THAT THEY
ARE DOING, THEN YOU PROBABLY AREN'T GOING TO LIKE THIS EXPANSION OF IT.
I WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF
LEGISLATION AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE MY KIND -- MY COLLEAGUES TO ALSO
VOTE NO.
THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: A PARTY VOTE
HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE
MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION. YES VOTES MAY BE RECORDED AT THEIR SEATS NOW. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: MS. BICHOTTE
55
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
HERMELYN.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: THANK YOU, MR.
SPEAKER. YES, THIS IS A PARTY VOTE AND THE MAJORITY WILL BE VOTING IN
THE AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE AGAINST THIS BILL CAN -- CAN DO
SO AT THEIR DESK.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: THE CLERK WILL
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL HAS PASSED.
PAGE 6, RULES REPORT NO. 195, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00182, RULES REPORT
NO. 195, CRUZ, STERN, BURDICK, SIMON, MCDONOUGH, WEPRIN, COLTON.
AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO HOMEOWNER NATURAL
DISASTER PREPAREDNESS, HOME SAFETY AND LOSS PREVENTION COURSES.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: MS. CRUZ, AN
EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. CRUZ: THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THE DEPARTMENT
OF FINANCIAL SERVICES TO ISSUE A REQUEST FOR A PROPOSAL TO IMPLEMENT
THE HOMEOWNER NATURAL DISASTER PREPAREDNESS, HOME SAFETY AND LOSS
PREVENTION PROGRAM, AUTHORIZED IN THE 2016 BUDGET.
MS. WALSH: MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: SPONSOR, WILL
YOU YIELD?
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MS. CRUZ: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER BURROUGHS: THE SPONSOR
YIELDS.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
SO COULD YOU JUST TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE -- THE
PROGRAM? WAS IT ORIGINALLY STARTED IN 2016?
MS. CRUZ: IT WAS AUTHORIZED.
MS. WALSH: AUTHORIZED. AND THEN WHAT HAS
HAPPENED WITH IT SINCE THAT TIME, NINE YEARS LATER?
MS. CRUZ: NOT MUCH.
MS. WALSH: NOT MUCH. OKAY. AND AGAIN, WHAT
WAS IT SUPPOSED TO DO?
MS. CRUZ: SO, THE PREPAREDNESS AND HOME AND
SAFETY AND LOSS PREVENTION PROGRAM [SIC] WOULD AUTHORIZE THE
SUPERINTENDENT TO PROVIDE FOR AND ALLOW INSURERS TO OFFER ACT -- ACT --
ACTUARIALLY-APPROPRIATE REDUCTIONS IN HOMEOWNERS' INSURANCE FOR THREE
YEARS FOLLOWING A HOMEOWNER'S SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF A
HOMEOWNER NATURAL DISASTER PREPAREDNESS AND [SIC] HOME SAFETY AND
LOSS PREVENTION COURSE. SO BASICALLY, IT AUTHORIZES HIM TO CREATE A
PROGRAM THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES CAN THEN TURN AROUND AND PROVIDE TO
-- TO BUYERS, TO HOMEOWNERS. AND IF THEY COMPLETE THE PROGRAM THEY
-- IT -- IT WOULD ENTAIL INFORMATION AND EDUCATION AROUND HOME AND
SAFETY PREVENTION, HOMEOWNER NATURAL DISASTERS AND LOSS PREVENTION.
THEY WOULD THEN GET A REDUCTION ON THEIR PREMIUM.
MS. WALSH: AND IS THERE ANY -- IS THERE ANY REASON
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
-- LIKE, WHY HASN'T DFS EFFECTUATED THE PROGRAM AS WAS ORIGINALLY
INTENDED?
MS. CRUZ: THAT'S A QUESTION FOR DFS.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T KNOW. WE'VE ASKED, BUT WE DON'T HAVE AN
ANSWER. IT'S WHY WE WANT TO, THROUGH THIS LEGISLATION, ASK THAT THEY
REQUEST FUNDING IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY GET THE WORK DONE.
MS. WALSH: OKAY.
SO STARTING IN 2021 AND THEN '22, '23 AND LAST YEAR, THIS
BILL WAS -- OR, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENTLY NUMBERED, BUT THIS BILL HAD BEEN
INTRODUCED I GUESS MAYBE TO UNSTICK THE PROCESS OR MOVE THE PROCESS
FORWARD; IS THAT FAIR?
MS. CRUZ: I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S A FAIR ASSESSMENT.
IT -- AFTER THERE WERE SEVERAL NATURAL DISASTERS THROUGHOUT NEW YORK,
WE'VE STARTED THINKING ABOUT PROGRAMS THAT COULD HELP HOMEOWNERS IN
A SITUATION LIKE THAT, NOT ONLY TO GET THE EDUCATION OF HOW TO BE
PREPARED FOR -- FOR AN INSTANCE WHERE THERE'S A HURRICANE, BUT ALSO SAVE
MONEY AND THIS KIND OF HAD THE TWO. AND IT WAS A PROGRAM THAT WAS
ALREADY CREATED, SO WE WEREN'T GOING TO ASK FOR THE CREATION OF THE
PROGRAM. WE WERE JUST GOING TO ASK TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENCY WAS
FOLLOWING THE STEPS THAT WE DICTATED ALMOST TEN YEARS AGO.
MS. WALSH: ABSOLUTELY.
NOW, THERE ARE BUDGET HEARINGS THAT HAPPEN EACH
YEAR, AS WE KNOW, IN PREPARATION FOR THE BUDGET. DO YOU HAPPEN TO
KNOW IF -- IF THE DFS'S FAILURE TO IMPLEMENT THIS PROGRAM WAS BROUGHT
UP AT ANY BUDGET HEARINGS? I MEAN, HAVE THEY OFFERED ANY EXPLANATION
58
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
FOR WHY THEY HAVEN'T DONE IT?
MS. CRUZ: I DON'T RECALL. I DON'T RECALL.
MS. WALSH: YOU DON'T RECALL. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
SO SPECIFICALLY, THOUGH, THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THE
DFS SUPERINTENDENT TO REVIEW EVERY SUCH COURSE THAT'S SUBMITTED TO
THE DFS FOR APPROVAL. THE BILL ALSO DIRECTS THE DFS TO ISSUE AN RFP,
REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL, FOR THE COURSES BY MARCH 1ST OF NEXT YEAR, 2026,
AND HAS DFS SUBMITTING A REQUEST FOR STATE FUNDING NEEDED TO MEET THE
REQUIREMENTS OF THIS BILL.
SO QUESTIONS FOR YOU ARE -- AND I NOTE THAT THIS BILL IS A
LITTLE BIT SHORTER THAN THE PRECEDING DEBATE, SO I CAN ACTUALLY POINT YOU
TO PAGE 2, LINE 12 OF THE BILL, WHICH STATES THE DEPARTMENT, MEANING
DFS, I -- I'M ASSUMING, SHALL SUBMIT --
MS. CRUZ: YOU SAID PAGE 2, LINE 12?
MS. WALSH: PAGE 2, LINE 12, YUP. THE DEPARTMENT
SHALL SUBMIT A REQUEST FOR STATE FUNDING IN ORDER TO EFFECTUATE THE
PROVISIONS OF THIS SUBSECTION.
MS. CRUZ: YES.
MS. WALSH: NOW, WHO -- IT DOESN'T SAY WHO THE
DEPARTMENT IS SUPPOSED TO SUBMIT THEIR REQUEST TO. CAN YOU CLARIFY
THAT, PLEASE?
MS. CRUZ: YEAH. I MEAN, THE CONSTITUTION'S PRETTY
CLEAR THAT THAT REQUEST DOESN'T COME TO THE LEGISLATURE, IT GOES TO THE
GOVERNOR. SO WE DIDN'T THINK THAT IT WAS NECESSARY TO MENTION IT THERE.
MS. WALSH: AND -- AND YET, AND AS YOU AND I
59
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
DISCUSSED A LITTLE BIT EARLIER BEFORE DEBATE, THAT WAS PRECISELY THE ISSUE
THAT WAS RAISED LAST YEAR WHEN THE BILL WAS DEBATED; A CONCERN THAT THE
CONSTITUTION, SPECIFICALLY ARTICLE VII, REQUIRES THAT ANY -- THAT THE
BUDGET IS TO BE SUBMITTED BY THE GOVERNOR AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT
THE LEGISLATURE -- THE LEGISLATURE CERTAINLY MAY HAVE INPUT, BUT
REQUESTS FOR -- REQUESTS LIKE THIS FROM DFS WOULD NOT COME TO US IN THE
LEGISLATURE. SO I -- I JUST WANTED TO ESTABLISH THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT THAT
THAT -- ANY REQUEST IS GONNA BE FROM DFS TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.
MS. CRUZ: THAT'S CORRECT.
MS. WALSH: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
CLARIFYING THAT. OKAY.
LET ME JUST DOUBLE-CHECK IF THERE'S -- IF I HAVE ANY
OTHER QUESTIONS FOR YOU. YEAH, SO MY -- AS -- AS YOU STATED, THE -- THE
PROGRAM REALLY HASN'T GOTTEN TOO FAR SINCE 2016. MY NOTES INDICATE THAT
SINCE THE PROGRAM WAS ENACTED, DFS HAS NOT PROMULGATED ANY
STANDARDS OR GUIDELINES FOR THE COURSES OR THEIR -- THEIR REVIEW OF, YOU
KNOW, WHAT THEY NEED TO CONTAIN; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. CRUZ: YEAH, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING AS WELL.
AND IT'S -- IT'S PRETTY UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE THIS IS A KIND OF ENDEAVOR THAT
WOULD NOT ONLY EDUCATE CONSUMERS/HOMEOWNERS ON HOW TO BE
PREPARED FOR ANY OF THOSE SITUATIONS, BUT IT WOULD ALSO SAVE THEM
MONEY. SO I WOULD THINK THAT OUR STATE AGENCY WOULD PRIORITIZE THAT,
BUT HERE WE ARE ALMOST TEN YEARS LATER.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU.
60
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MS. WALSH: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.
MS. WALSH: I THINK ALL OF US SEE THE VALUE OF
HAVING HOMEOWNER NATURAL DISASTER PREPAREDNESS. I DON'T THINK -- I
THINK ALL OF US AND -- AND OUR DISTRICTS ANYWHERE AROUND THE STATE HAVE
EXPERIENCED THESE TYPES OF WEATHER EVENTS, NATURAL DISASTERS, AND BEING
PREPARED IS A GOOD IDEA. AND SO I THINK THAT THE -- THE UNDERLYING
REASONS FOR CREATING THIS PROGRAM BACK IN 2016 WERE GOOD ONES. AND I
THINK THAT THIS -- TO ME, THIS BILL RAISES A LARGER ISSUE THAT WE EXPERIENCE
SOMETIMES AS LEGISLATORS WHERE WE HAVE DELEGATED RESPONSIBILITY AND
TASKS TO STATE AGENCIES TO DO THINGS THAT WE BELIEVE ARE IMPORTANT, AND
THEN SOMETIMES, AS IS APPARENTLY THE CASE HERE, NOTHING HAPPENS.
NOTHING HAPPENS TO EFFECTUATE THESE -- THESE PROGRAMS. AND SO WHEN
WE DELEGATE AND WE DON'T GET THE RESULT THAT WE NEED THAT WE BELIEVE
THAT THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK STATE NEED, I CAN APPRECIATE THAT THE
SPONSOR BELIEVES THAT WE -- WE NEED TO TAKE FURTHER ACTION TO ENSURE
THAT A PRIORITY THAT WE HAD ESTABLISHED THROUGH LEGISLATION IS ACTUALLY
CARRIED FORWARD.
I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, LAST YEAR WHEN THIS BILL WAS
DEBATED THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT CONCERN THAT WAS RAISED REGARDING
CONSTITUTIONALITY, AND SPECIFICALLY ARTICLE VII. I DO BELIEVE THAT THE
SPONSOR HAS ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED AND CLARIFIED FOR THE RECORD THAT
REQUESTS FOR BUDGET -- BUDGET REQUESTS COMING FROM DFS WILL BE
DIRECTED, AS THEY SHOULD, TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE FOR INCLUSION IN NEXT
YEAR'S BUDGET. AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA COME BACK HERE
61
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
FOR US TO WEIGH IN ON OR TO -- TO VOTE AGAIN ON OR TO APPROVE. THAT'S NOT
THIS LEGISLATURE'S ROLE.
SO I THINK WITH THAT CLARIFICATION, ALTHOUGH WE HAD A
SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF VOTES IN THE NEGATIVE LAST YEAR -- IT WAS A VOTE OF
107 TO 40 -- I DO BELIEVE THAT WITH THE SPONSOR'S CLARIFICATION ON THE
RECORD AS TO WHAT THE INTENT OF THIS LEGISLATION IS THAT THIS MAY BE
SOMETHING THAT -- THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO SUPPORT. I WILL BE SUPPORTING
IT. AND ALTHOUGH THERE MAY BE A MIX OF VOTES, I DO THINK THAT THE
SPONSOR'S ANSWERS HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL, AND THAT IS, AFTER ALL, THE
PURPOSE OF DEBATE.
SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: AND THAT MAY SURPRISE SOME OF YOU
BECAUSE OF WHAT I JUST SAID. BUT I THINK THAT BASED ON LAST YEAR'S VOTE,
IT'S ALWAYS KIND OF A -- A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD DO A FAST OR
A PARTY VOTE. I WOULD SAY THAT THE MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL START FROM
THE POSITION BASED ON LAST YEAR'S VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE. BUT IF THERE ARE
MEMBERS THAT WISH TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME
TO DO SO AT YOUR SEATS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: YEAH, THANK YOU,
MADAM SPEAKER. ON OUR SIDE THIS IS A PARTY VOTE. THE MAJORITY WILL
BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AND THOSE WHO WISH TO VOTE NO CAN -- CAN
DO SO AT THEIR DESK.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 6, RULES REPORT NO. 202, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01248-B, RULES
REPORT NO. 202, TAPIA, ZACCARO, ALVAREZ, LAVINE, DE LOS SANTOS,
SIMONE, FORREST, SHIMSKY, LUCAS, CUNNINGHAM, CRUZ, SIMON, SAYEGH,
EPSTEIN, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, BORES, K. BROWN, CHANG, GIGLIO,
PIROZZOLO, DESTEFANO, PHEFFER AMATO, WEPRIN, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT
TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING THE SALE
OF XYLAZINE ABOVE A CERTAIN WEIGHT.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. TAPIA.
MS. TAPIA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
THIS BILL WILL PROHIBIT THE LARGE-SCALE SALE OF XYLAZINE
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
WITHOUT DOCUMENTED PROOF OF SCIENTIFIC OR VETERINARY PURPOSES.
XYLAZINE IS NOT A NEW SUBSTANCE, BUT IT'S MISUSED AND ESCALATING -- AND
ESCALATING FAST. IT'S SHOWING UP IN OVER A QUARTER OF THE FENTANYL
SAMPLES TESTED IN NEW YORK CITY. AND ACCORDING TO DATA, MORE THAN --
MORE THAN -- MORE -- FROM THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND
PREVENTION, THE ESTIMATED NUMBER OF DRUG POISONING DEATHS IN THE
UNITED STATES INVOLVING XYLAZINE GREW FROM 260 IN 2018 TO 3,480 IN
2021, AN INCREASE OF 1,238 PERCENT. WHEN MIXED WITH THE DRUG
SUPPLY, XYLAZINE CAN CAUSE SEDATION, UNCONSCIOUSNESS, SKIN -- SKIN
WOUNDS, AND EVEN DEATH. NALOXONE -- NAL -- NAL -- NALOXONE DOESN'T
REVERSE IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN OPIOID. THERE IS NO KNOWN ANECDOTE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. TAGUE.
MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WOULD
THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE QUICK QUESTIONS, PLEASE?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MS. TAPIA: YES, I YIELD.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, ASSEMBLYWOMAN TAPIA.
JUST A COUPLE QUICK QUESTIONS.
I ACTUALLY SUPPORT THIS BILL, BUT THERE ARE SOME
CONCERNS. OUR VETERINARIANS AND OUR FARMERS HAVE SOME CONCERNS AND
THERE'S JUST SOME ANSWERS THAT WE NEED TO A COUPLE QUESTIONS HERE. BUT
WHAT WILL BE ACCEPTABLE DOCUMENTATION FOR PROOF OF AGE AND PROOF OF
USE?
64
NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MS. TAPIA: IT SHOULD BE -- IT SHOULD -- IT SHOULD
COME FROM A VETERINARIAN PROFESSIONAL.
MR. TAGUE: HOLD ON ONE SECOND.
MADAM SPEAKER, THERE'S SOME NOISE BEHIND. I'M
HAVING TROUBLE HEARING.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: COLLEAGUES, IF WE
COULD KEEP IT DOWN, PLEASE. I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU.
MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU.
MS. TAPIA: IT -- IT HAD TO COME -- THE (INDISCERNIBLE)
RECOMMENDATION HAS TO COME FROM A VETERINARIAN PROFESSIONAL
(INDISCERNIBLE) BECAUSE, I MEAN, THAT IS A -- A DRUG. THAT IS
VETERINARIAN [SIC] DRUG.
MR. TAGUE: WELL, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT MY CONCERN
HERE IS, IS THAT VETERINARIANS USE THIS -- THIS DRUG. AND I THINK THOSE
AND SOME DIFFERENT TYPES OF FARMERS, HORSE FARMERS, CATTLE FARMERS,
DAIRY FARMERS, THEY KEEP SOME OF THIS, YOU KNOW, IN STOCK ON THE FARM
FOR EMERGENCY USE. AND THEY -- I THINK THEIR CONCERN IS IS WHAT -- YOU
KNOW, THEY DON'T WANT TO BE IN TROUBLE, THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE OF THE LAW. BUT I THINK THE QUESTION IS HOW, YOU
KNOW, WHAT -- WHAT ARE THEY GONNA USE FOR DOCUMENTATION OF THE USAGE
OF IT, HOW MUCH THEY ADMINISTERED, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
(CONFERENCING)
MS. TAPIA: THEY HAVE TO -- THE -- THE PEOPLE THAT
ARE GONNA USE OR BUY THE XYLAZINE HAVE TO PROVE WHAT THEY'RE GONNA BE
USED FOR. THEY HAVE TO BE USED FOR VETERINARIAN USES.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. TAGUE: OKAY.
AND THEN NEXT, HOW SHOULD THE RECORDS OF THE
PURCHASES AND SALES TRACKS -- TRANSACTIONS BE KEPT OR REPORTED? HOW --
HOW WOULD THEY DO THAT?
(CONFERENCING)
MS. TAPIA: OKAY. THE VETERINARIAN THAT'S SELLING
THE DRUGS HAVE [SIC] TO KEEP TRACK OF IT AND HAVE TO KEEP A BOOK. I
MEAN, MAKING SURE EVERYBODY THAT BUYS SOMETHING (INDISCERNIBLE).
MR. TAGUE: AND DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG THIS LAW
IS GONNA REQUIRE THEM TO KEEP THOSE RECORDS FOR?
(CONFERENCING)
MS. TAPIA: IT'S NOT -- THAT IS NOT IN THE BILL.
MR. TAGUE: IT'S NOT IN THE BILL?
MS. TAPIA: NO.
MR. TAGUE: OKAY.
AND THEN LASTLY, I GUESS, I SEE THAT THERE'S A LIMIT ON
THE AMOUNT -- WHO ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ALLOWED TO KEEP A LIMITED
AMOUNT OF THIS? IS THERE A CERTAIN GROUP OF PROFESSIONALS THAT ARE
ALLOWED TO KEEP A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THIS ON HAND? I THINK IT WAS 50
MILLILITERS; AM I CORRECT, OR...
MS. TAPIA: THEY'RE -- THEY'RE -- THEY SHOULD BE
PROFESSIONAL TO HAVE TO -- HAVE IT. I MEAN, THE MAX THAT THEY COULD --
THEY COULD -- THEY COULD BUY IS 50 GRAMS, YEP.
MR. TAGUE: OKAY. SO IS THIS FOR SOMEBODY THAT'S
-- DOES SOMEBODY HAVE TO BE LICENSED IN THE MEDICAL FIELD?
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MS. TAPIA: A VETERINARIAN WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A
LICENSE, YES.
MR. TAGUE: OKAY.
WELL, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME ON THIS. LIKE I
SAID, I AM GONNA SUPPORT THE BILL. I WOULD JUST ASK MAYBE AS THE BILL
MOVES FORWARD TO MAYBE TIGHTEN UP SOME OF THOSE AREAS THAT WE
DISCUSSED SO EVERYBODY'S EXACTLY AWARE. LIKE I SAID, MANY OF OUR
LARGE ANIMAL FARMERS KEEP A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THIS IN STOCK RIGHT ON
THE FARM IN CASE OF EMERGENCY. THERE'S A CONCERN, YOU KNOW, HOW
MUCH THEY CAN ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW. AND
THEN I THINK OUR VETERINARIANS ARE ALSO CONCERNED BECAUSE ESPECIALLY IN
RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK, MANY -- YOU KNOW, SOME OF OUR VETERINARIANS
COVER HUNDREDS OF MILES OF LARGE ANIMALS, AND I THINK THEY ALSO WANT TO
MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE. THEY DON'T WANT TO BE DRIVING
DOWN THE ROAD AND HAVE TOO MUCH OF IT IN THE VEHICLE AND GET PULLED
OVER AND THEN HAVE AN ISSUE.
SO LIKE I SAID, IF THERE'S A WAY WE CAN ANSWER SOME OF
THOSE QUESTIONS AS THE BILL MOVES ON, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, MADAM
SPEAKER, I'M -- I'LL BE VOTING IN THE POSITIVE ON THIS BILL. THANK YOU --
THANK YOU AGAIN, ASSEMBLYWOMAN. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
READ THE LAST SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH
DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER. IF WE COULD NOW CONTINUE OUR -- FROM OUR DEBATE CALENDAR.
WE'RE GOING TO GO RIGHT TO RULES REPORT NO. 203, IT'S ON PAGE 6. AND
THEN WE'RE GONNA GO TO RULES REPORT NO. 207, IT'S ON PAGE 7. FOLLOWED
BY CALENDAR NO. 124, WHICH HAPPENS TO BE ON PAGE 16.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
PAGE 6, RULES REPORT NO. 203, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01450, RULES REPORT
NO. 203, DINOWITZ, WEPRIN, EPSTEIN, TAPIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE
INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO RESTRICTING INSURERS FROM DEMANDING
INTRUSIVE PERSONAL, FINANCIAL AND TAX INFORMATION FROM INSUREDS AS A
STANDARD PRACTICE IN PROCESSING ORDINARY THEFT CLAIMS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. DINOWITZ.
MR. DINOWITZ: THIS BILL WOULD ESTABLISH THAT IT
SHALL BE AN UNFAIR CLAIMS SETTLEMENT PRACTICE FOR AN INSURER TO DEMAND
PERSONAL, FINANCIAL AND TAX INFORMATION WHILE INVESTIGATING A THEFT
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
CLAIM. HOWEVER, IT ALLOWS FOR INSURERS TO REQUEST PERSONAL, FINANCIAL
AND TAX INFORMATION IF SPECIAL ARTICULABLE CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST WHICH
DIRECTLY RELATE TO THE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL FACTS OF SUCH THEFT, AND
WHICH WARRANT THE MAKING OF SUCH A DEMAND FOR THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE
OF DETERMINING IF THE CLAIM IS FRAUDULENT.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. GANDOLFO.
MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR PLEASE YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES, I WILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU.
SO FIRST THINGS FIRST, THIS WOULD ONLY APPLY WHEN
PROCESSING THEFT CLAIMS?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. AND IN THE TITLE OF THE BILL
IT CALLS -- IT HOLDS THAT DEMANDING THIS PERSONAL INFORMATION IS
INTRUSIVE. WHY WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED INTRUSIVE IN YOUR VIEW?
MR. DINOWITZ: IF THE PERSONAL INFORMATION THAT
THEY'RE ASKING FOR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL CLAIM, THEN IT
WOULD BE INTRUSIVE.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO IT PROHIBITS THE
DEMAND OF THIS PERSONAL INFORMATION THAT'S OUTLINED HERE UNLESS THERE
ARE SPECIAL ARTICULABLE CIRCUMSTANCES. WHAT WOULD BE A SPECIAL
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ARTICULABLE CIRCUMSTANCE?
MR. DINOWITZ: THEY -- THEY WOULD HAVE TO SHOW
THAT -- THAT THERE'S A STRONG POSSIBILITY OF FRAUD. THEY JUST -- THEY CAN'T
SIMPLY SAY, OH, WE THINK THERE MAY BE FRAUD. THAT CAN'T BE THE DEFAULT
THAT EVERY TIME THERE'S A CLAIM, WHICH I'M SURE MANY INSURERS DO,
THEY'RE GONNA WANT TO CLAIM FRAUD SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY UP.
THEY WOULD HAVE TO SHOW THAT THAT'S A REASONABLE POSSIBILITY, AND IN
THAT CASE THEN THE PERSONAL INFORMATION OF ONE TYPE OR ANOTHER MAY BE
RELEVANT. BUT OTHERWISE, IT'S NOT RELEVANT. IT'S NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS,
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE LISTED IN THERE, UNDER -- UNDER ORDINARY
CIRCUMSTANCES.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. BUT WHAT WOULD RAISE A
ACCEPTABLE RED FLAG THAT THEY MIGHT BE DEALING WITH AN INSTANCE OF
FRAUD?
MR. DINOWITZ: CURRENTLY, THE REGULATIONS -- I'LL --
I'LL GIVE YOU -- THE CURRENT REGULATIONS SAY THAT AN INSURER SHALL FURNISH
TO EVERY CLAIMANT OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVE NOTIFICATION OF ALL ITEMS,
STATEMENTS AND FORMS WHICH THE INSURER REASONABLY BELIEVES WILL BE
REQUIRED OF THE CLAIMANT WITHIN 15 DAYS. BUT WHAT THIS DOES IS IT
CLARIFIES THAT THAT'S -- THAT CERTAIN INFORMATION COULD ONLY BE ASKED FOR
IF -- IF THEY CAN SHOW THAT THERE'S A POTENTIAL OF FRAUD. NOW YOU'RE
ASKING ME SPECIFICALLY, LIKE WHAT WOULD THAT BE. I THINK WE -- I THINK
YOU KNOW WHEN YOU SEE IT.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. AND THERE -- THERE
CURRENTLY ARE DFS REGULATIONS THAT DEAL WITH THIS EXACT ISSUE?
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. DINOWITZ: THERE ARE REGULATIONS, BUT IT'S NOT,
IN MY OPINION, SPECIFIC OR STRONG ENOUGH. BECAUSE AS I MENTIONED
EARLIER, ANY TIME THERE'S A CLAIM, THE -- THE INSURANCE COMPANY CAN SAY,
OH, WE'RE NOT PAYING, IT'S -- IT'S FRAUD. IT'S KIND OF LIKE ANY TIME THERE'S
A MEDICAL CLAIM IT'S TURNED DOWN. THAT'S THE DEFAULT POSITION ALL TOO
OFTEN OF INSURANCE COMPANIES. THEY'RE NOT PAYING. BUT, IN FACT, THEY
SHOULD PAY ACCORDING TO THE TERMS OF THE POLICY IF IT'S WARRANTED. NOW,
WHEN THEY'RE INVESTIGATING, THEY SHOULD CERTAINLY INVESTIGATE THE
SPECIFICS OF WHAT HAPPENED, BUT TO ASK FOR INFORMATION LIKE, YOU KNOW,
WHERE -- WHERE WE LAST REGISTERED TO VOTE, I MEAN, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF
STUFF THAT ARE TOTALLY IRRELEVANT TO -- TO A CLAIM THAT THEY JUST HAVE NO
BUSINESS ASKING FOR AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ASK FOR IT.
MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT. BUT SAY YOU -- IF THEY
DETECT A PATTERN THAT MAY BE FROM, YOU KNOW, A JOB SITE, THEIR KEY --
CLAIMS BE -- ARE -- ARE CONTINUALLY SUBMITTED FOR MATERIALS BEING STOLEN.
WOULDN'T IT BE PERTINENT TO MAYBE LOOK INTO THE CLAIMANT'S BANK
ACCOUNT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NOT MORE SUMS OF MONEY BEING
DEPOSITED? MAYBE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF INSINUATING A -- SOME KIND OF
FRAUDULENT MATERIAL THEFT RING?
MR. DINOWITZ: THE INSURER -- THE INSURERS ARE STILL
FREE TO INVESTIGATE POTENTIAL FRAUD TO COLLECT ANY PERTINENT INFORMATION.
BUT WHAT THE BILL DOES IS SIMPLY ELIMINATE EXTRANEOUS INFORMATION.
THEY COULD STILL INVESTIGATE. IN FACT, IN MANY CASES THEY SHOULD
INVESTIGATE IF CIRCUMSTANCES WARRANT IT.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO THEY CAN INVESTIGATE,
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
THEY JUST CAN'T GET ANY FINANCIAL STATEMENTS TO AID IN THEIR
INVESTIGATION?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, THE BILL USES THE WORD
"ARTICULABLE CIRCUMSTANCES." THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO -- BE ABLE TO SAY
A REASON WHY THEY NEED THIS INFORMATION OTHER THAN, WELL, MAYBE
THERE'S FRAUD. THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. THEY -- THEY WOULD --
SOMETHING -- NEED SOMETHING MORE THAN THAT.
MR. GANDOLFO: WELL, HOW OFTEN ARE THEY JUST
SAYING, WELL, MAYBE THERE'S FRAUD AND OPENING UP EVERYONE'S BOOKS? I
-- I WOULD IMAGINE CONSIDERING HOW MUCH FRAUD COSTS EVERY
POLICYHOLDER, THERE'S AN INTEREST FOR EVERYBODY FOR -- TO ALLOW INSURANCE
COMPANIES TO HAVE ACCESS TO THIS DATA TO ROOT OUT FRAUD.
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WANTS THERE
TO BE FRAUD. WE CERTAINLY WANT TO WEED OUT FRAUD. BUT THERE'S NO
REASON OR NO BASIS TO ASSUME THAT THERE IS FRAUD JUST BECAUSE
SOMEBODY'S MAKING A CLAIM. YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, I -- I IMAGINE WE ALL
HAVE ONE KIND OF INSURANCE OR ANOTHER AND WE PAY A LOT OF MONEY FOR
IT. AND IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF WHEN THE TIME COMES THAT WE MAKE A
CLAIM THAT WE ARE NOT THE ONES BEING INVESTIGATED.
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO THE -- NOW IF -- MAYBE
I'M JUST HAVING A HARD TIME WITH THE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES EXCEPTION
HERE. IF THERE WAS A, LET'S SAY, A ZIP CODE THAT HAD A PATTERN OF CAR PARTS
BEING STOLEN AND THEY WERE TRYING TO PIECE TOGETHER SOME KIND OF, YOU
KNOW, FRAUD RING THAT'S CONNECTED. THEY COULDN'T JUST GO IN AND GET
SOME OF THIS INFORMATION? IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S ADDING JUST ANOTHER HURDLE
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THAT WOULD MAKE IT NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO ACTUALLY GET SOME OF THESE
DETAILS THAT COULD UNCOVER MAJOR ACTS OF FRAUD.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I'M -- I'M NOT SURE HOW
SOMEBODY'S BUSINESS TAX RETURN -- I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE -- THE LAUNDRY
LIST OF THINGS THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ASK FOR. HOW SOMEBODY'S
BUSINESS TAX RETURNS, HOW -- THE PERMITS OR LICENSES WHICH PEOPLE HOLD,
VOTER REGISTRATION INFORMATION, JUST TO NAME A FEW. HOW ANY OF THAT IS
POSSIBLY RELEVANT TO THAT. AND IN TERMS OF INVESTIGATING CERTAIN ZIP
CODES, WELL, WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT LEADS TO. AND AS A PERSON WHO
LIVES IN THE BRONX, I DON'T LIKE, YOU KNOW, REDLINING AND THINGS LIKE
THAT.
MR. GANDOLFO: WELL, I DON'T MEAN ZIP CODES IN
TERMS OF GEOGRAPHIC REGIONS. IF THERE ARE REPORT -- IF AN INSURANCE
COMPANY IS GETTING MULTIPLE CLAIMS WITHIN A SMALL GEOGRAPHIC AREA,
WOULDN'T IT BE PRUDENT TO MAYBE LOOK INTO THE FACT THAT THIS COULD BE AN
ORGANIZED FRAUD RING? WE HAD THE ISSUES OF CATALYTIC CONVERTERS A FEW
YEARS AGO BEING STOLEN ALL OVER THE PLACE.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I CAN TELL YOU AS A PERSON
WHOSE CATALYTIC CONVERTER WAS STOLEN, I DON'T THINK THAT IF -- IF THE
INSURANCE COMPANY WANTED TO INVESTIGATE THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE MY,
YOU KNOW, VOTER REGISTRATION INFORMATION OR MY PERSON -- OR MY -- MY
FINANCIAL RECORDS OR STUFF LIKE THAT. WHY WOULD THEY NEED THAT?
MR. GANDOLFO: SO WHAT IF THERE'S A SUSPECTED
FRAUD RING? WOULDN'T DEPOSITS INTO A BANK ACCOUNT BE PERTINENT
INFORMATION TO AN INVESTIGATION?
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. DINOWITZ: IF -- IF THERE WAS A FRAUD RING, ODDS
ARE IT'S THE -- THE -- THOSE WHO ARE CAUSING SUCH FRAUD ARE NOT THE
PEOPLE WHOSE CATALYTIC CONVERTERS ARE STOLEN. IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT
THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO'S, YOU KNOW, LEADING A -- A CAR THEFT
RING OR A CATALYTIC CONVERTER THEFT RING. BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY
HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE INDIVIDUAL VICTIMS. YOU KNOW, WHEN
SOMEBODY IS PUTTING IN A CLAIM FOR -- THAT SOME -- SOMETHING OF THEIRS
WAS STOLEN, THEY'RE THE -- THEY'RE A VICTIM. AND THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO
BE VICTIMIZED AGAIN BY AN INSURANCE COMPANY THAT DOESN'T WANT TO PAY
THE POLICY TO WHICH THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PAY IF CIRCUMSTANCES WARRANT.
SO WE DON'T NEED TO VICTIMIZE THE PERSON A SECOND TIME.
MR. GANDOLFO: SO EVEN -- LET'S SAY EVEN PUTTING
ASIDE ANY AUTOMOBILE-RELATED THEFTS, WHAT ABOUT EVEN JEWELRY
INSURANCE? SOMEONE HAS A RING INSURED, MAYBE THEY GO AND SELL IT,
CLAIM THAT IT WAS LOST. THE INSURANCE COMPANY WOULD BE UNABLE TO
REALLY GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT IF IT LOOKED SUSPICIOUS? THEY COULDN'T
LOOK FOR A DEPOSIT IN --
MR. DINOWITZ: I -- I WOULDN'T SAY THAT. AND I'M
NOT SURE OF HOW GETTING SOME OF THE INFORMATION -- THAT'S LISTED IN THE
BILL, COPIES OF THE INSURED'S PERSONAL AND BUSINESS TAX RETURNS, PERMITS
OR LICENSES OTHER THAN DRIVER'S LICENSE, LOAN APPLICATIONS WHICH THE
INSURED FILED. STATEMENTS SETTING FORTH COUNTY AND STATE IN WHICH THE
INSURED HAS BEEN REGISTERED TO VOTE OVER A PERIOD OF TIME OTHER THAN
FROM THEIR PRESENT RESIDENCE. IT'S JUST ABSURD. THE -- THE THINGS THAT
ARE LISTED HERE, IT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS IN MOST CASES FOR A PERSON TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
HAVE TO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION.
MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT. BUT NOT EVERY BIT OF
INFORMATION IS GOING TO BE APPLICABLE TO EVERY SINGLE SITUATION. BUT IN
CERTAIN INSTANCES I'M SURE A LOT OF THIS INFORMATION MIGHT BE VALUABLE IN
THE COURSE OF AN INVESTIGATION.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, IT CERTAINLY POSSIBLE. I
MEAN, I'M NOT -- I WOULD NOT SAY THERE'S NEVER FRAUD, BUT WHAT'S MORE
PREVALENT IS THE FACT THAT THINGS ARE STOLEN AND PEOPLE HAVE POLICIES AND
THEY PAY A LOT OF GOOD MONEY TO HAVE THOSE POLICIES SO THEY CAN GET --
GET PAYMENT FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANY. AND IF -- IF THE PAYMENT IS
WARRANTED, IT SHOULDN'T BE HELD UP BECAUSE THE INSURANCE COMPANY IS,
YOU KNOW, ASKING FOR ALL THIS STUFF WHICH ALMOST AMOUNTS TO A FORM OF
HARASSMENT, FRANKLY.
MR. GANDOLFO: SO IT'S HARA -- OKAY. NOW, HOW --
YOU KEEP SAYING THIS IS JUST DRAGGING ON. ON AVERAGE, DO YOU KNOW
HOW LONG THIS IS EXTENDING THE PERIOD OF TIME FROM A CLAIM TO A
SETTLEMENT?
MR. DINOWITZ: I WOULD SAY THAT IF THIS BILL IS
SIGNED INTO LAW, IT WOULD ACTUALLY SHORTEN THE CLAIM AND POSSIBLY CUT
DOWN ON COSTS. I THINK IT COULD CONCEIVABLY LOWER INSURANCE PREMIUMS
BECAUSE IT WOULD MAKE THE FRAUD INVESTIGATION PROCESS MORE EFFICIENT
BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT BE STANDARD PRACTICE FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANY
TO REQUEST EXTRANEOUS INFORMATION THAT WOULD THEN NEED TO BE REVIEWED
BY INVESTIGATORS. SO BY -- BY ASKING FOR ALL THIS EXTRA STUFF, WHICH IS
LARGELY IRRELEVANT, THAT LENGTHENS THE PROCESS, PROBABLY ADDS TO THE COST
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
OF THE PROCESS. SO BY DOING THE RIGHT THING BY THE CLAIMANTS, WE'RE ALSO
PROBABLY SAVING THE INSURANCE COMPANY MONEY.
MR. GANDOLFO: WELL, DID YOU TELL THE INSURANCE
COMPANIES THAT? BECAUSE I'M SURE THEY'D LOOK FOR ANY WAY TO
STREAMLINE THEIR BUSINESS. ARE THEY JUST INVESTIGATING THIS STUFF FOR
FUN? WHY -- WHY WOULD THEY ADD COSTS TO THEIR BUSINESS FOR NO
REASON?
MR. DINOWITZ: I GUESS THEY'RE HOPING THAT -- THAT
THEY WILL FIND FRAUD SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY. THAT'S THEIR HOPE. AND
MAYBE SOMETIMES THERE IS FRAUD. I'M SURE THERE IS ON OCCASION. BUT
THAT COULD STILL BE INVESTIGATED IF THERE ARE ARTICULABLE CIRCUMSTANCES.
THAT'S A TOUGH WORD TO ARTICULATE.
MR. GANDOLFO: IRONICALLY, YES.
NOW, I'VE SEEN ESTIMATES THAT INSURANCE FRAUD,
ESPECIALLY IN THEFT CLAIMS, CAN COST PREMIUM POLICYHOLDERS ANYWHERE
FROM $4- TO $700 PER YEAR IN INCREASED PREMIUM COSTS. SO I GUESS
WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT IS IF WE JUST TELL THEM TO STOP INVESTIGATING MOST
OF THE POTENTIAL FRAUD CASES, THAT POLICYHOLDERS WILL SAVE A GREATER
AMOUNT THAN $4- TO $700?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO. THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT WHAT I
SAID. I THINK IF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES CONCENTRATE ON INVESTIGATING
THOSE CLAIMS WHERE THERE'S VERY LIKELY TO BE FRAUD AND FOCUS THEIR
ENERGY ON THOSE INSTEAD OF ON ALL THESE CASES WHERE IT'S NOT GONNA BEAR
ANY FRUIT FOR THEM, BUT IT'S STILL GONNA COST THEM MONEY, WHICH
ULTIMATELY DOES GET PASSED DOWN TO THE INSUREDS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. THANK YOU.
MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.
MR. GANDOLFO: MADAM SPEAKER, I THINK WHAT
THIS BILL IS DOING IS JUST MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR INSURANCE
COMPANIES TO INVESTIGATE POTENTIAL FRAUD WITHIN THE SYSTEM. AND BY
MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO DO THAT, IT ENDS UP COSTING EVERY
POLICYHOLDER UNDER THAT UMBRELLA. IT'S ESTIMATED THAT FRAUD IN THE -- IN
THEFT CLAIMS CAN COST EVERY POLICYHOLDER ANYWHERE FROM $4- TO $700 A
YEAR. SO WE SHOULD BE ENCOURAGING MORE INVESTIGATIONS INTO POTENTIAL
INSURANCE FRAUD AS WE SEE THAT INSURANCE COST PRETTY MUCH ACROSS THE
BOARD OR GOING UP FOR EVERYONE.
THE IDEA THAT IF WE JUST DECREASE THE INVESTIGATIONS AT
THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL SAVE MONEY AND THAT SAVINGS WILL BE
PASSED ON TO US, I JUST DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING. I THINK IF THAT WERE THE
CASE, INSURANCE COMPANIES WOULD ALREADY BE CUTTING DOWN ON
ERRONEOUS INVESTIGATIONS IN AN EFFORT TO PROBABLY INCREASE THEIR PROFIT
MARGIN. BUT THERE ARE INSTANCES OF FRAUD OUT THERE NOW THAT I FEAR WITH
THE PASSAGE OF THIS BILL WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE SOLVED AND ROOTED OUT.
SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I ENCOURAGE
MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE NO AS WELL. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. RA.
MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE
SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUICK QUESTIONS?
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MR. DINOWITZ: YES.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. RA: CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN TO ME, IS YOUR
INTENTION HERE TO CODIFY THAT CURRENT REGULATORY PRACTICE WHERE THE
INSURER ISN'T SUPPOSED TO ASK FOR THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION UNLESS THERE
ARE GOOD REASONS TO DO SO, OR IS THIS INTENDED TO BE MORE EXPANSIVE AND
RESTRICTIVE WITH REGARD TO THE PRACTICE OF INSURERS WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO
SETTLE A CLAIM?
MR. DINOWITZ: I WILL TELL YOU MY IN -- MY INTENT
THIS WAY: I WANT TO SEE TO IT THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T HOUND
PEOPLE TO DEATH WHEN THEY'RE ASKING FOR INFORMATION THAT'S IRRELEVANT TO
THE CASE. IF THERE'S FRAUD, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO INVESTIGATE FRAUD. I
THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE UPON THAT. BUT WHAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING
IS DELAY, DELAY, DELAY BY ASKING FOR INFORMATION THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH THE CLAIM, BUT, IN FACT, PLACES A TREMENDOUS BURDEN ON THE
INSURED, WHICH, OF COURSE, ARE OUR CONSTITUENTS.
MR. RA: SO I'M GONNA TAKE THAT TO MEAN THAT YOU'RE
NOT JUST CODIFYING THE REGULATION BECAUSE YOU DON'T -- DO NOT BELIEVE
THE REGULATION IS STRONG ENOUGH.
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I DON'T HAVE TO CODIFY THE
REGULATIONS, THEY'RE ALREADY THERE. I MEAN --
MR. RA: WELL, BUT I'M -- SO THERE'S A REGULATION THAT
SAYS COM -- THAT DIRECTS COMPANIES TO NOT DEMAND VERIFICATION OF FACTS
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
UNLESS THERE ARE GOOD REASONS TO DO SO. SO WHAT -- WHAT I'M ASKING IS,
IS ARE YOU TRYING TO PUT WHAT THAT REGULATION DOES INTO A STATUTE OR DO
YOU THINK THAT REGULATION IS NOT SUFFICIENT AND YOU'RE TRYING TO GO
FURTHER WITH THIS LAW?
MR. DINOWITZ: WELL, I -- I THINK THAT REGULATION IS
OKAY, BUT BY INCLUDING THAT AND KIND OF STRENGTHENING AND EXPANDING
IT, I THINK IT -- IT MEANS -- IT MAKES IT STRONGER IN TERMS OF PROTECTING
PEOPLE LIKE US WHO HAVE INSURANCE POLICIES.
MR. RA: OKAY. AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, IF YOU CAN
FURTHER JUST EXPLAIN. SO THIS REGULATION REQUIRES THAT THERE BE GOOD
REASONS TO ASK FOR VERIFICATION OF FACTS. THIS STATUTE SPECIFICALLY SAYS
THAT YOU COULDN'T ASK FOR IT, AND IT -- AND IT ACTUALLY LISTS OUT A NUMBER
OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF RECORDS THAT COULD BE -- THAT THE COMPANY MIGHT
ASK FOR. AND IT SAYS UNLESS SPECIAL ARTICULABLE CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE
BEEN DISCOVERED WHICH DIRECTLY RELATE TO -- TO THE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL
FACTS OF SUCH THEFT WHICH -- AND WHICH WARRANT THE MAKING OF SUCH A
DEMAND. SO IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT THAT WOULD REQUIRE A MORE
DETAILED EXPLANATION BY THE INSURANCE COMPANY AS TO WHY THEY'RE
ASKING FOR THIS THAN THE CURRENT REGULATION WOULD JUST ASK FOR A GOOD
REASON; WOULD YOU AGREE?
MR. DINOWITZ: YEAH, YES. THEY WOULD HAVE TO
ESSENTIALLY SHOW THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IN
ORDER TO RESOLVE THE CASE. AND IN THE ABSENCE OF THEM DOING THAT IF
THEY JUST SAY, WE JUST WANT THIS INFORMATION, NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
MR. RA: ISN'T SOMETIMES THAT INFORMATION WHAT
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
LEADS TO THEM BEING ABLE TO LOOK AND SEE THAT THERE'S A SUSPICIOUS
SITUATION?
MR. DINOWITZ: NO.
MR. RA: NONE OF THIS INFORMATION WOULD BE RELEVANT
TO WHETHER THERE MIGHT BE A SUSPICIOUS CIRCUMSTANCE WITH REGARD TO A
THEFT IN A CLAIM FOR INSURANCE COVERAGE?
MR. DINOWITZ: I DON'T THINK SO.
MR. RA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MR.
DINOWITZ.
MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.
MR. RA: SO I -- I JUST WANTED TO NOTE THAT THERE -- I
MEAN, THERE IS CURRENT STATUTORY DFS REGULATIONS -- I'M SORRY, NOT
STATUTORY, BUT DFS REGULATIONS WHICH REQUIRES GOOD REASONS TO ASK FOR
THIS INFORMATION. AS MY COLLEAGUE STATED EARLIER, I -- I DO THINK THERE IS
A DESIRE BY AN INSURANCE COMPANY TO -- TO SETTLE CLAIMS TO, YOU KNOW,
COVER WHERE COVERAGE IS WARRANTED, AND CERTAINLY TO INVESTIGATE WHEN
THERE ARE SUSPICIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES. THERE MIGHT BE CERTAIN TYPES OF
CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE, YOU KNOW, BY A PROCESS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF FRAUD
IN THAT THEY MAY SEEK TO DO SOME VERIFICATION OF -- OF THE CLAIM. I
THINK THIS STATUTE MIGHT -- OR IF THIS SHOULD BECOME STATUTE, MIGHT
INHIBIT THEM FROM DOING SO. AND WE WANT ANYBODY WHO'S PAYING FOR
INSURANCE TO BE ABLE TO PUT IN A CLAIM. LET'S -- LET'S NOT FORGET THAT. BUT
IF THERE'S FRAUD IN A SYSTEM, AND WE'VE SEEN THIS ACROSS THE INSURANCE
MARKET IN ALL DIFFERENT AREAS, NOT JUST WITH REGARD TO PROPERTY THEFT, IT
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MEANS EVERYBODY ELSE PAYS MORE FOR INSURANCE. IT'S -- IT'S NOT THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE COMMITTING THE FRAUD THAT END UP PAYING FOR THAT, IT'S
ALL THE OTHER POLICYHOLDERS.
SO FOR THAT REASON I'LL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.
THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE
REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION, BUT THOSE WHO WISH TO PERHAPS VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE MAY
DO SO NOW AT THEIR SEATS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF
THIS CONSUMER-FRIENDLY PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A
FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO
SO AT THEIR SEATS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. BLANKENBUSH TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. BLANKENBUSH: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER, TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
A LICENSED INSURANCE AGENT TAKES CE CREDITS EVERY
YEAR, AND ONE OF THOSE COURSES THAT THE STATE OFFERS IS FRAUDULENT
INSURANCE CLAIMS. AND IF YOU TAKE THAT COURSE AND YOU READ WHAT
CAUSES THE MOST CLAIMS, FRAUDULENT CLAIMS, IS FINANCIAL STRESS. SO --
AND THE OTHER THING IS, WHAT IS AN ORDINARY THEFT? SO, THEFTS CAN BE
ORDINARY? THE -- THE -- IT'S A POORLY WRITTEN BILL. BUT IF YOU'RE -- IF
YOU'RE IN STRESS, FINANCIAL STRESS, WHETHER YOU'RE IN BUSINESS FOR
YOURSELF OR IT'S A PERSONAL ONE, A GREAT PERCENTAGE OF INSURANCE
FRAUDULENT CLAIMS IS BECAUSE OF THAT KIND OF STRESS. AND YOU GET TO A
POINT WHERE IF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES FEEL THAT THERE'S SOMETHING NOT
RIGHT WITH THE CLAIM, THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE IDEA -- THEY WILL NOT HAVE
THE ABILITY TO TAKE A LOOK AT ALL OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD CAUSE SOMEONE,
AN INDIVIDUAL OR A BUSINESSOWNER, TO -- TO CLAIM A THEFT THAT REALLY
WASN'T A THEFT.
SO IT'S A CONFUSING TYPE THING WHEN YOU SAY AN
ORDINARY THEFT. AND SO I'M VOTING NO BECAUSE OF THE FACT IS THE
FRAUDULENT CLAIMS COURSES THAT THEY TELL YOU IS THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN
REASONS THAT WE -- WE HAVE FRAUD IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS BECAUSE
OF FINANCIAL AND TAX STRESS. SO I'M GONNA BE VOTING NO FOR THOSE
REASONS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. BLANKENBUSH IN THE NEGATIVE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
PAGE 7, RULES REPORT NO. 207, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02620-A, RULES
REPORT NO. 207, HEVESI, CLARK, RAGA, SIMON, KELLES, DINOWITZ,
ROSENTHAL, EPSTEIN, ZACCARO, R. CARROLL, LAVINE, GLICK, GONZÁLEZ-
ROJAS, BRONSON, CUNNINGHAM, MEEKS, ALVAREZ, PAULIN, DE LOS SANTOS,
BORES, SIMONE, GALLAGHER, WALKER, GIBBS, LUNSFORD, TAPIA, WOERNER,
BICHOTTE HERMELYN, CRUZ, SHRESTHA, SEAWRIGHT, DAVILA, HYNDMAN,
STECK, ZINERMAN, O'PHARROW, SCHIAVONI, LEVENBERG, P. CARROLL,
TAYLOR, BURDICK, WEPRIN, OTIS, FORREST, MAMDANI, VANEL, LUPARDO,
REYES, SEPTIMO, HOOKS, MITAYNES, BURROUGHS, SOLAGES, DAIS,
SHIMSKY, ANDERSON, KIM, VALDEZ, MCMAHON, LASHER, DILAN, WRIGHT.
AN ACT TO AMEND THE FAMILY COURT ACT AND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
LAW, IN RELATION TO THE CUSTODIAL INTERROGATION OF JUVENILES BY LAW
ENFORCEMENT.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MR. HEVESI.
MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THANK
YOU, COLLEAGUES.
THIS BILL WILL PROVIDE ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS AND
PROCEDURES WHEN A YOUTH IS TAKEN INTO CUSTODY BY LAW ENFORCEMENT
AND DURING INTERROGATION.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. REILLY.
MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MR. HEVESI: ABSOLUTELY. GOOD TO SEE YOU, MR.
REILLY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MR. HEVESI.
SO, WHAT ARE THE MAJOR -- WHAT ARE THE MAJOR REVISIONS
TO THIS LAW FROM HOW IT EXISTS TODAY?
MR. HEVESI: OKAY, SO A COUPLE OF THINGS. WE'VE
ALREADY PASSED THIS BILL FOUR -- FOUR YEARS AGO, SO IT JUST -- I'LL REITERATE
WHAT'S IN THE BILL FOR -- FOR MY COLLEAGUES. THE REASON WHY WE'RE HERE
IS BECAUSE WE'RE FINDING THAT 90 PERCENT OF OUR YOUTH, KIDS UNDER 18,
ARE WAIVING THEIR MIRANDA RIGHTS AND THEY'RE CONFESSING AT THREE TIMES
THE RATE OF ADULTS. SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO IS ADD ADDITIONAL
PROTECTIONS FOR THOSE KIDS, UNDERSTANDING THE SCIENCE THAT TELLS US THEY
ARE NOT CAPABLE, DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO -- TO DEAL WITH THESE
INTERROGATIONS. SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IS, WE ARE REQUIRING IN THIS BILL THAT
EVERY YOUTH, BEFORE THEY GO IN -- THEY'RE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY, THEY HAVE
TO HAVE THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL. THAT COULD BE BY A PHONE,
TELECONFERENCE OR IN PERSON. SO THAT'S THE FIRST PIECE. IF THAT'S NOT DONE
AND THERE ARE STATEMENTS TAKEN FROM THE YOUTH DURING INTERROGATION
WITHOUT THE LAWYER PRESENT, THEN WE ADD A REMEDY INTO THE BILL THAT
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ALLOWS THOSE STATEMENTS TO BE STRICKEN.
AND IN THE LAST PIECE, I THINK, MR. REILLY, THAT YOU AND
I HAVE TALKED ABOUT OFFLINE IS ABOUT HOW POLICE ARE TO IMMEDIATELY
NOTIFY THE PARENTS OF A YOUNGSTER AT THE SCENE. WE HAVE AMENDED THAT
LANGUAGE BASED OFF OF OUR CONVERSATIONS AND -- AND INTERNAL ADDITIONAL
CONVERSATIONS WITH PROGRAM AND COUNSEL, THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT THE LAW READS THE WAY THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO READ, WHICH IS WE WANT
THE POLICE TO CONTACT THE PARENT OR THE PERSON LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE
IMMEDIATELY. BUT WE DID WRITE INTO THE LAW AND WE AMENDED -- THAT'S
WHY YOU SAY AN A-PRINT -- TO SAY EVERY REASON -- EVERY REASONABLE
EFFORT TO DO THAT. BECAUSE WE WANT OUR POLICE OFFICERS TO UNDERSTAND
THAT IF THERE'S A DANGEROUS CIRCUMSTANCE THEY CAN GET OUT OF THERE FIRST
BEFORE THEY DO THAT.
MR. REILLY: SO, THANK YOU, MR. HEVESI. SO JUST TO
CLARIFY THAT FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE LISTENING AND JUST TO GET IT ON THE RECORD,
SO LET'S SAY THERE'S AN INCIDENT AT 46TH -- 42ND STREET AND BROADWAY IN
TIMES SQUARE. AND LARGE MOVIE THEATERS THERE, LARGE -- THERE'S A --
THERE'S A MOVIE THEATER THERE AND THERE'S A LARGE GROUP OF YOUTH THAT ARE
UNDER 18 YEARS OLD. THEY'RE 16 AND 17. BIG FIGHT, THEY GET INTO A -- A
SCUFFLE. TEN ON TEN MAYBE. AND NOW FIVE OF THEM ARE TAKEN INTO
CUSTODY. SINCE THERE'S A LARGE CROWD THERE, IS IT PERMISSIBLE FOR THE --
FOR THE POLICE OFFICERS THAT ARE THERE TO TAKE THEM INTO CUSTODY AND
REMOVE THEM FROM THE SCENE WITHOUT EVEN MAKING A CALL? JUST
BECAUSE OF -- JUST IN THAT SCENARIO, HOW WOULD THAT FIT?
MR. HEVESI: IF THE POLICE OFFICER DETERMINES THAT
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
IT'S AN UNSAFE SCENE, THAT'S WHY WE ADDED IN THE PIECE ABOUT EVERY
REASONABLE COMPONENT, TOO. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE OUR OFFICERS --
LOOK, THE -- THE -- THE PURPOSE OF THAT NOTIFICATION IS WE WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE'RE SHRINKING THE TIME BETWEEN THE TIME THAT THE KID IS
GOING TO BE -- THE YOUNGSTER IS GOING TO BE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY AND THE
TIME THEIR PARENTS GET NOTIFIED. THAT'S WHY WE PUT IN THE LANGUAGE
"IMMEDIATELY." BUT BECAUSE WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU AND
WITH THE NYPD AND OTHER FRIENDS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE DECIDED
WE'RE GONNA MAKE SURE THAT THE UNDERLYING LAW AS WRITTEN OUT IN THIS
BILL SAYS "EVERY REASONABLE EFFORT."
MR. REILLY: OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. HEVESI.
SO TO MOVE ON TO THE PIECE ABOUT STATEMENTS MADE.
NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE BILL IS WRITTEN TO ENSURE THAT 16- AND 17-
YEAR-OLDS CONSULT WITH AN ATTORNEY. THIS CANNOT BE WAIVED.
MR. HEVESI: CORRECT.
MR. REILLY: THEIR PARENTS CAN'T WAIVE IT FOR THEM,
EITHER, CORRECT?
MR. HEVESI: THAT'S CORRECT. THEY CANNOT.
MR. REILLY: OKAY. IT HAS TO BE BY IN-PERSON,
TELEPHONE OR BY VIDEO CONFERENCE, CORRECT?
MR. HEVESI: YEAH. ONE OF THOSE THREE.
MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO THAT'S BASICALLY IF THE POLICE
OFFICER IS GOING TO ASK QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE OFFENSE, RIGHT?
MR. HEVESI: CORRECT.
MR. REILLY: NOT WHEN IT'S -- THAT DOESN'T APPLY TO
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
WHEN THEY'RE GETTING PEDIGREE INFORMATION; IS THAT CORRECT? LIKE, IF
THEY'RE ASKING THE 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLD THEIR NAME, DATE OF BIRTH,
ADDRESS.
MR. HEVESI: NEVER THOUGHT OF IT. GOOD QUESTION.
LET ME CHECK WITH COUNSEL. GIVE ME ONE SECOND.
(PAUSE/CONFERENCING)
YEAH, I -- I THINK THERE -- MY INSTINCT IS THAT -- WE'RE
GONNA CHECK FOR YOU AND I'LL -- I'LL TELL YOU AFTER. BUT MY INSTINCT IS THAT
IN ORDER TO CONTACT THE PARENT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET SOME PEDIGREE
INFORMATION FROM THE KID, SO IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE THAT THEY'RE ASKING
FOR THAT. IT'S THE OTHER PIECES I'M CONCERNED ABOUT, MAKING SURE THAT
THEY'RE --
MR. REILLY: SO JUST -- JUST TO CLARIFY. SO WE'RE
LOOKING AT THE 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLD IN CUSTODY --
MR. HEVESI: YES.
MR. REILLY: -- AND THE OFFICER GOING TO ASK
INQUISITIVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INCIDENT, NOT THEIR PEDIGREE.
MR. HEVESI: THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, YES, SIR.
MR. REILLY: OKAY. OKAY.
SO ONE PIECE IN HERE IS ABOUT -- IT'S A SCENARIO THAT YOU
AND I HAVE DISCUSSED IN THE PAST, AND I'D LIKE TO JUST, IF YOU CAN PLEASE
GIVE ME SOME TIME TO GIVE -- LAY OUT THE SCENARIO. YOU'RE AT A -- YOU
RESPOND TO, SAY, TOTTENVILLE HIGH SCHOOL AS A POLICE OFFICER, SHOTS
FIRED, YOU RESPOND. TWO KIDS ARE RUNNING FROM THE SCENE. YOU STOP
THEM. ONE OF THEM HAS A GUN ON THEM, YOU ARREST HIM. THERE WERE
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
SUPPOSEDLY TWO GUNS. YOU HAVE TWO INDI -- YOU HAVE TWO 16- AND
17-YEAR-OLDS. THEY'RE NOW TAKEN INTO CUSTODY, THEY'RE IN THE BACK OF
RMP, RIGHT, THE RADIO MOBILE PATROL CAR, AND ONE OF THE GUNS IS
MISSING.
MR. HEVESI: MM-HMM.
MR. REILLY: THE TWO OFFICERS ARE IN THE CAR. THEY
DON'T SAY ANYTHING, AND THE TWO INDIVIDUALS ARE TALKING AND ONE OF
THEM SAYS, OH, MAN, I HOPE NOBODY FINDS THAT GUN. THEY'RE GONNA GET
HURT. I LEFT IT OVER THERE BY THAT SIGN. THE COPS OVERHEAR IT. THEY GO
THERE, THEY RECOVER THE GUN. ACCORDING TO THIS LEGISLATION, ANY
STATEMENTS MADE BY A DEFENDANT WHO'S 16 AND 17 WHO DID NOT CONSULT
WITH AN ATTORNEY AND DIDN'T WAIVE THAT RIGHT, THEY MUST BE EXCLUDED
FROM EVIDENCE.
MR. HEVESI: MY -- WHAT QUALIFICATION?
MR. REILLY: YES.
MR. HEVESI: BECAUSE IN YOUR QUESTION YOU ASKED IF
THEY'RE IN CUSTODY, AND THAT'S THE DIVIDING LINE. SO IF THE YOUTH IS IN THE
CAR, THEY'RE NOT IN CUSTODY AND THAT EXACT SAME THING HAPPENS, THAT'S AN
EXCITED UTTERANCE. THAT'S -- THEY'RE ALLOWED TO -- THE POLICE ARE ALLOWED
TO USE THAT. SO -- SO THE DISTINCTION IS IF THE YOUTH IS NOT IN CUSTODY,
YEAH, YOU CAN USE THOSE STATEMENTS. BUT THE SECOND THAT YOU TAKE THAT
KID INTO CUSTODY, AUTOMATICALLY NOW YOU HAVE TO GET THEM AN ATTORNEY.
MR. REILLY: SO CURRENTLY, UNDER A HUNTLEY HEARING
--
MR. HEVESI: MM-HMM.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. REILLY: -- RIGHT, WHEN THE SAME THING FOR --
RIGHT NOW FOR ANYONE WHO MAKES A STATEMENT IN REGARD TO THAT
SCENARIO, A JUDGE WOULD DETERMINE THE RELEVANCE OF IN CUSTODY, WERE
THEY TRICKED INTO SAYING IT, DID THEY SPONTANEOUSLY SAY IT, RIGHT, THE
DEFENDANT?
MR. HEVESI: RIGHT.
MR. REILLY: IF THE JUDGE DETERMINES THAT THEY
FREELY AND VOLUNTARILY GAVE THAT INFORMATION WITHOUT BEING DIRECTED BY
THE POLICE OFFICER, THAT WOULD BE ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE.
MR. HEVESI: OKAY.
MR. REILLY: THIS -- THE LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL STATES
THAT IN NO WAY CAN A JUDGE ALLOW THAT TO BE PUT INTO EVIDENCE.
MR. HEVESI: THAT IS CORRECT.
MR. REILLY: IT WOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY THROWN OUT.
MR. HEVESI: THAT'S CORRECT. I CAN EXPLAIN WHY AND
GET INTO SOME OF THE SCIENCE OF WHY (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK).
MR. REILLY: PLEASE DO. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET INTO
THE SCIENCE OF IT, BUT PLEASE, A BASIS IF YOU CAN.
MR. HEVESI: VERY -- VERY -- SO FIRST OF ALL, I'M NOT
A SCIENTIST --
MR. REILLY: YEAH.
MR. HEVESI: -- SO YOU'RE LUCKY. SO, BASICALLY WHAT
WE'RE FINDING IS 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLDS DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO -- TO
HANDLE THESE CIRCUMSTANCES. NUMBER ONE, THE UNITED STATES SUPREME
-- LET ME -- LET ME TAKE A STEP BACK. HERE'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE'S MIRANDA RIGHTS, IT'S TWO SECTIONS OF
THE CONSTITUTION; IT'S YOUR FIFTH AMENDMENT RIGHT NOT TO BE SELF-
INCRIMINATED, WHICH IS YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT; AND THEN YOUR SIXTH
AMENDMENT RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY. OKAY. SO WE'RE SEEING THE KIDS ARE
JUST WAIVING THEM LIKE THESE RIGHTS DON'T EXIST. THE SUPREME COURT
SAYS THAT FOR A WAIVER -- FOR ANY ADULT, ANY AMERICAN, TO WAIVE THEIR
RIGHTS, WAIVE THOSE PARTICULAR RIGHTS, THAT THEIR -- THE WAIVER HAS TO BE
KNOWING, INTELLIGENT AND VOLUNTARY. OKAY? BUT WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS
THAT THESE KIDS, BY WAIVING THEIR RIGHTS AND THEY'RE ALSO CONFESSING
THREE TIMES THE RATE OF THE AVERAGE ADULT, WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THESE
KIDS ARE BEING PUT UNDER -- UNDER STRESS AND CIRCUMSTANCES. IT'S NOT TO
SAY THAT THE POLICE ARE DOING ANYTHING WRONG. THE COPS ARE DOING
EVERYTHING RIGHT. BUT EVEN THE COURTS HAVE TOLD US THAT THIS IS AN
INHERENTLY PRESSURE-FILLED SITUATION FOR THESE KIDS, AND THEY'RE FOLDING
AND THEY'RE GIVING AWAY THEIR RIGHTS. AND WHAT HAPPENS IS, AS A
CONSEQUENCE -- LET ME JUST FINISH THIS QUICK THOUGHT --
MR. REILLY: MM-HMM.
MR. HEVESI: SO IT'S BAD FOR THE KIDS AND THEIR
FAMILIES BECAUSE YOU'RE CATCHING INNOCENT KIDS. THAT'S NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, YOU ARE ALLOWING PERPETRATORS TO ROAM FREE. YOU GOT THE
WRONG GUY. WE GOT THE WRONG GUY, SO WE WANT TO GET IT RIGHT. AND SO
I JUST WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT THE -- THIS IS NOT ABOUT POLICE -- POLICE
DOING ANYTHING THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING. THIS IS ABOUT THE
CIRCUMSTANCE WE HAVE SET UP BEING SO LOPSIDED THAT KIDS ARE JUST
CONSTANTLY SAYING ANYTHING THEY CAN TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THAT ROOM
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEIR BRAIN IS TELLING THEM TO DO. THAT'S BECAUSE
THEIR PREFRONTAL CORTEX IS NOT DEVELOPED AS IT WOULD WHEN THEY ARE --
LATER ON IN LIFE. I KNOW IT'S A LONG ANSWER, BUT I HOPE I GOT TO WHAT YOU
WERE ASKING.
MR. REILLY: NO, NO. I APPRECIATE THAT, MR. HEVESI.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.
MR. REILLY: SO, I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT AND I
UNDERSTAND THE REASON WHY WE MAY BE LOOKING TO GIVE ADDED
PROTECTIONS TO 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLDS. AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THE
OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM AND -- AND THE MANDATORY OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO
CONSULT WITH AN ATTORNEY. WHAT I -- WHAT I RAISED ABOUT THE
SPONTANEOUS UTTERANCE IS A REAL CONCERN. THERE -- THEY COULD STILL HAVE
THAT OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO AN ATTORNEY IF THEY'RE ON -- IF THERE'S GOING TO
BE AN INTERROGATION, RIGHT? AND LET'S -- LET'S UNDERSTAND THIS, THAT
MIRANDA RIGHTS ARE GIVEN WHEN THERE'S CUSTODY PLUS INTERROGATION. YOU
DON'T NEED TO GIVE MIRANDA RIGHTS AT EVERY ARREST UNLESS YOU ARE GOING
TO ASK INQUISITIVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INCIDENT. WHEN THEY GIVE A
SPONTANEOUS UTTERANCE LIKE THAT SCENARIO I GAVE YOU IN FRONT OF A SCHOOL
WHERE THEY WERE SCARED SOMEONE WAS GOING TO FIND THEIR GUN AND THEY
GAVE UP WHERE IT IS WITHOUT BEING ASKED, THAT SHOULD NOT BE EXCLUDED
FROM EVIDENCE. IN A HUNTLEY HEARING WITH AN ADULT, THAT WOULD BE
OKAY. A 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLD RIGHT NOW, WITH A FIREARM, WHO DOES NOT
USE IT IN A CRIME, WHO ONLY MERELY POSSESSES IT, HAS IT IN THEIR
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
WAISTBAND, IT AUTOMATICALLY GOES TO FAMILY COURT. SO IF THEY ARE
STOPPED ON THE STREET WITH A LOADED FIREARM, THIS TAKES EFFECT, THEY CAN'T
EVEN BRING THEM TO THE PRECINCT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BRING THEM
STRAIGHT TO COURT, TO FAMILY COURT, OR THEY HAVE TO CONTACT THE PARENTS
AND BRING THEM TO THEIR HOUSE. BECAUSE IT'S NOT A DESIGNATED FELONY FOR
A 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLD. FOR A FIREARM OFFENSE TO BE A DESIGNATED FELONY
FOR A 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLD, THEY HAVE TO DISPLAY THE FIREARM. THEY HAVE
TO USE IT IN A CRIME, MEANING THAT THEY POINT IT AT SOMEBODY MAYBE AND
COMMIT A ROBBERY, OR THEY HAVE TO FIRE IT. OR PISTOL WHIP A VICTIM WITH
IT. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THAT A 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLD CAN BE CHARGED IN
YOUTH PART CRIMINAL. OTHERWISE, THEY GO TO FAMILY COURT. AND THAT IS
EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW. SO THE POINT ABOUT THE SPONTANEOUS
UTTERANCE IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE REVISITED.
THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. MOLITOR.
MR. MOLITOR: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL
THE SPONSOR YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
MR. HEVESI: ABSOLUTELY, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. MOLITOR: THANK YOU, MR. HEVESI.
I JUST WANT TO GO THROUGH A FEW DIFFERENT PARTS OF THIS
BILL --
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. HEVESI: PLEASE.
MR. MOLITOR: -- TO UNDERSTAND THIS A LITTLE BIT
BETTER. THIS BILL ONLY APPLIES TO ARRESTS; IS THAT CORRECT? IF THERE'S AN
ARREST, THE PROVISIONS OF THIS BILL WOULD APPLY.
MR. HEVESI: WHEN A CHILD IS TAKEN INTO CUSTODY.
THAT'S WHEN THIS -- THAT'S THE TRIGGER OF THIS BILL. IT'S NOT ARREST, IT'S
CUSTODY.
MR. MOLITOR: WELL, DO YOU HAVE THE BILL TEXT IN
FRONT OF YOU?
MR. HEVESI: YES.
MR. MOLITOR: LOOKING AT PAGE 6, LINE 23.
MR. HEVESI: OKAY.
MR. MOLITOR: IT SAYS UPON ARRESTING A JUVENILE
OFFENDER. IT DOESN'T SAY UPON BEING TAKEN INTO CUSTODY, DOES IT?
MR. HEVESI: YEAH, THIS IS PART OF -- THERE ARE
MULTIPLE SECTIONS OF WHAT TO DO IN THE CASE THAT A CHILD COMES INTO
CUSTODY. I'M GONNA CHECK THAT SECTION IN A SECOND. BUT THAT'S PART OF
SEVERAL -- SEVERAL DIFFERENT SECTIONS THAT OUTLINE IN DETAIL WHAT THE
POLICE SHOULD BE DOING IN DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES IF THE KID IS A
JUVENILE OFFENDER, IF THE KID IS A PINS KID WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO
TAKE THE CHILD. BUT I WILL -- I WILL CHECK THAT WITH COUNSEL. BUT PLEASE
ASK YOUR NEXT QUESTION.
MR. MOLITOR: AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN CUSTODY AND ARREST, ISN'T THERE? CUSTODY IS A LEGAL STANDARD
THAT'S BOTH SUBJECTIVE AND OBJECTIVE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
(CONFERENCING)
MR. HEVESI: I'M SORRY, SIR. ASK THE LAST PART OF
YOUR QUESTION AGAIN. I APOLOGIZE.
MR. MOLITOR: SO, AS YOU KNOW, CUSTODY IS -- IS A
LEGAL STANDARD. IT'S GOT AN OBJECTIVE ELEMENT AND A SUBJECTIVE ELEMENT.
IT'S BEEN DETERMINED BY THE -- YOU KNOW, EACH SITUATION HAS TO BE
FLUSHED OUT WITH THE COURTS. SO IT CAN'T BE UPON TAKE -- BEING TAKEN
INTO CUSTODY BECAUSE CUSTODY IS BOTH FACTUAL AND LEGAL, RIGHT?
MR. HEVESI: YOU'RE -- YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THE
SECTION YOU REFERENCED. IT DOES SAY ARREST.
MR. MOLITOR: SO -- SO IN THE SITUATION WHERE THE
POLICE ARE JUST -- I'M GONNA USE A DIFFERENT WORD -- DETAINING, LET'S SAY
THERE'S A NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS AT A PARTICULAR SCENE AND THEY ARE JUST --
THEY'RE -- THEY'RE SAYING TO ALL OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS, YOU CAN'T LEAVE.
WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON. THIS SECTION MIGHT NOT APPLY
IN THAT PARTICULAR SCENARIO, RIGHT?
MR. HEVESI: GIVE ME THE SCENARIO AGAIN?
MR. MOLITOR: IN -- IN A SCENARIO WHERE THERE'S A
BUNCH OF PEOPLE AT A SCENE AND THE POLICE SAY TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS, YOU
CAN'T GO. WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON, THIS BILL MIGHT NOT
APPLY.
MR. HEVESI: THAT'S CORRECT, BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T
BE -- I DON'T BELIEVE THEY'RE ARRESTED OR IN CUSTODY AT THAT POINT. SO I
THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, IT WOULD NOT APPLY.
MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. AND IF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
THE POLICE WERE ASKED THOSE INDIVIDUALS, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON. WOULD YOU MIND COMING DOWN TO
THE STATION WITH US, AND THEY SAY, YEAH, OF COURSE. THIS BILL WOULDN'T
APPLY, RIGHT?
MR. HEVESI: CORRECT.
MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. AND THEN WHILE THEY WERE AT
THE POLICE STATION THE POLICE ASKED, CAN YOU JUST TELL US WHAT
HAPPENED? THIS BILL WOULDN'T APPLY, RIGHT?
(CONFERENCING)
MR. HEVESI: SO -- SO THE STANDARD IS IF THEY'RE NOT
IN CUSTODY, BUT ALSO IF THEY ARE FREE TO LEAVE. IF -- IF THE PERSON IS FREE
TO LEAVE, THEN THIS BILL DOESN'T APPLY.
MR. MOLITOR: WELL, NOW YOU'RE CITING ONE OF THE
-- ONE OF THE SUBDIVISIONS OR SUBSECTIONS, I GUESS, OF THE CUS --
CUSTODIAL DEFINITION. WHETHER SOMEONE BELIEVES THEY'RE FREE TO LEAVE,
THAT'S A SUBJECTIVE THING, ISN'T IT?
MR. HEVESI: YES, AND THAT'S PART OF THE STANDARD OF
CUSTODY.
MR. MOLITOR: IT'S ONLY ONE PART OF THE STANDARD OF
CUSTODY, THOUGH. THERE'S AN OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS AND A SUBJECTIVE
ANALYSIS.
MR. HEVESI: OKAY.
MR. MOLITOR: THAT'S BEEN DETERMINED BY THE
COURTS. SO WHETHER SOMEONE BELIEVES THAT THEY'RE FREE TO LEAVE, YOU
KNOW, IF AN INDIVIDUAL BELIEVES THAT THEY'RE NOT FREE TO LEAVE, THAT
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THE PROVISIONS OF THIS BILL APPLY, DO THEY?
MR. HEVESI: NO, THAT'S TRUE.
MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. NOW, LET'S SAY THE POLICE
THEN ARE AT -- AT A SCENE AND THEY DO NEED TO MAKE AN ARREST. THEY PUT
SOMEBODY IN HANDCUFFS, THEY SAY, YOU'RE UNDER ARREST.
MR. HEVESI: YES.
MR. MOLITOR: THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THE POLICE
TO RIGHT THEN AND THERE NOTIFY THE PARENTS OF THAT INDIVIDUAL, OR I BELIEVE
THE LANGUAGE IS --
MR. HEVESI: PERSON LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE.
MR. MOLITOR: PERSON LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE. WHAT
DOES THAT -- WHAT DOES PERSON WHO IS LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE MEAN?
MR. HEVESI: IF A PARENT'S NOT AVAILABLE THERE'S AN
ADULT THAT CAN -- IS IN CARE OF THE KID.
MR. MOLITOR: DO THEY HAVE TO BE A LEGAL
GUARDIAN?
MR. HEVESI: I DON'T BELIEVE THEY DO, NO.
MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. SO IN A SITUATION WHERE --
AND I'M NOT TRYING TO BE FACETIOUS HERE --
MR. HEVESI: NO, IT'S OKAY.
MR. MOLITOR: -- BUT I'M JUST FLUSHING THIS OUT
HERE.
MR. HEVESI: PLEASE.
MR. MOLITOR: IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE A -- A
SINGLE CHILD WHO ONLY HAS TWO PARENTS AND THAT -- AND I KNOW THIS IS AN
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EXTREME EXAMPLE, BUT THAT INDIVIDUAL MURDERS THEIR PARENTS. THE
POLICE WOULDN'T -- OBVIOUSLY THEY WOULDN'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING FURTHER.
THEY COULD JUST TAKE THAT INDIVIDUAL WHO THEY SUSPECT OF COMMITTING
THAT CRIME TO A -- A FACILITY, RIGHT, FOR CHILDREN?
MR. HEVESI: WELL, IF IT -- IF IT -- YOU'RE RIGHT. SO IF
IT'S A JUVENILE OFFENDER AND IT'S A CASE OF A JUVENILE OFFENDER WHICH
MEANS IT'S A FELONY, THE POLICE ARE INSTRUCTED TO TAKE THEM TO THE NEXT
AVAILABLE MAGISTRATE.
MR. MOLITOR: WELL, ISN'T -- DOESN'T -- DOESN'T --
DOESN'T 140.27 REQUIRE THEM TO TAKE THEM TO A -- I'M SORRY, A -- A
FACILITY DESIGNATED BY THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR?
MR. HEVESI: IT DOES. SO -- SO WHAT YOU'RE
REFERENCING IS, AND YOUR OTHER COLLEAGUE MENTIONED THIS AS WELL, IN THIS
BILL THERE'S A SERIES OF, IT'S ALMOST A TO-DO LIST. IF YOU'RE FACED WITH A KID
WHO'S A -- A PINS KID, A PERSON IN NEED OF SUPERVISION WHO HAS NOT
COMMITTED A CRIME, THEY GET TO CALL TO THE PARENTS OR THE PLR. IF IT'S A
JUVENILE OFFENDER, THEN YOU CONTRACT -- CONTACT THE MAGISTRATE AND THEN
YOU CAN TAKE THEM TO THE FACILITY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. BUT ALSO, YOU
KNOW, LET ME ADDRESS, IF I CAN, THE CIRCUMSTANCE. I KNOW IT'S A
EXTREME, BUT IF A KID KILLS THEIR PARENTS, I MEAN, IF -- YOU KNOW, DOES
THAT QUALIFY? DID THE OFFER -- THE OFFICER MAKE EVERY REASONABLE
ATTEMPT TO GET TO THE PERSON LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE? THAT'LL BE UP TO A
JUDGE, BUT MAYBE THERE'S AN AUNT THAT CAN LOOK AFTER THE KID. SO -- SO I
DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT I --
MR. MOLITOR: SO EVEN -- I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. HEVESI: YEAH, GO AHEAD.
MR. MOLITOR: EVEN IN THAT SITUATION, THE POLICE
STILL NEED TO MAKE ADDITIONAL EFFORTS TO TRY TO FIND SOMEBODY WHO'S
LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT CHILD.
MR. HEVESI: YEAH. SO THE GOAL IS OF THIS ENTIRE
SECTION OF ALL OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE LINED OUT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE
-- THE YOUTH WHO IS ABOUT TO BE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY GETS TO A PARENT OR A
PERSONAL LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. THAT'S ALL THAT'S
HAPPENING HERE.
MR. MOLITOR: AND IF THEY CAN'T, THEN THEY'RE
PERMITTED TO TAKE THE CHILD TO THAT FACILITY THAT'S DESIGNATED BY THE CHIEF
ADMINISTRATOR AS A SUITABLE PLACE FOR QUESTIONING OF CHILDREN --
MR. HEVESI: YES.
MR. MOLITOR: -- RIGHT? AND NOW, THE CHIEF
ADMINISTRATOR IS THE ONE WHO DESIGNATES THIS PLACE. AS FAR AS YOU
KNOW, AND I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THIS --
MR. HEVESI: IT'S OKAY.
MR. MOLITOR: -- ARE THERE, LIKE, FACILITIES IN CLOSE
PROXIMITY TO MOST POLICE JUR -- POLICE --
MR. HEVESI: SO -- SO THE ANSWER IS, I'M SURE IT'S A
MIXED BAG DEPENDING ON THE JURISDICTION. BUT WHAT THE -- WHAT THE --
THE CHIEF OF THE COURTS WILL TRY TO DO IN THIS INSTANCE IS TO MAKE THE
INTERROGATION -- THE PLACE OF THE INTERROGATION NOT LOPSIDED. SO YOU
DON'T WANT TO DO IT AT THE POLICE PRECINCT. THERE ARE OTHER PLACES THAT
ARE MORE NEUTRAL SPACES, AND I'M SURE THAT'S UP TO THE DISCRETION OF THE
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COURTS TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION OF WHAT FACILITIES ARE APPROPRIATE.
MR. MOLITOR: OKAY. AND THEN ONCE THEY'RE TAKEN
TO THAT FACILITY, THE POLICE CAN QUESTION THAT INDIVIDUAL BUT THEY HAVE TO
DO A FEW THINGS FIRST, RIGHT? THEY HAVE TO ADVISE THAT INDIVIDUAL OF
THEIR MIRANDA RIGHTS, AND THEN SECOND TO THAT, THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE THAT
INDIVIDUAL WITH AN ATTORNEY --
MR. HEVESI: YES.
MR. MOLITOR: -- SO THAT THE ATTORNEY CAN ADVISE
THEM BASICALLY TO NOT WAIVE THEIR MIRANDA RIGHTS, RIGHT?
MR. HEVESI: ACTUALLY, IT'S BEFORE THEY GET THEIR
MIRANDA RIGHTS. BEFORE THEY'RE READ THEIR MIRANDA RIGHTS, THEY ARE
SUPPOSED TO BE CONNECTED WITH AN ATTORNEY EITHER BY PHONE, ZOOM OR
IN PERSON.
MR. MOLITOR: OKAY.
MR. HEVESI: AND AGAIN, JUST THE -- JUST THE GENERAL
PRINCIPLE HERE, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS TO GET AN ADULT IN THE ROOM
WHO HAS THE -- A THIRD-PARTY WHO HAS THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD IN
MIND BECAUSE THE CHILD IS NOT ABLE TO ACCOUNT FOR THE DIFFICULTIES OF THIS
PRESSURE-FILLED SITUATION.
MR. MOLITOR: NOW, YOU -- WOULDN'T YOU AGREE
WITH ME THAT ONCE THAT ATTORNEY ENTERS -- ENTERS THE EQUATION --
MR. HEVESI: YEAH.
MR. MOLITOR: -- EVEN IF THE ATTORNEY SAYS TO THEM,
YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD WAIVE THE MIRANDA RIGHTS, LET'S --
LET'S GO THROUGH THIS HERE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. HEVESI: SURE.
MR. MOLITOR: SAY THE -- THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY
ADVISES THE CHILD, I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD WAIVE YOUR MIRANDA RIGHTS,
BUT THE CHILD DOES ANYWAY. IN THAT SITUATION --
MR. HEVESI: YEAH.
MR. MOLITOR: -- WOULDN'T ALL THE STATEMENTS OF
THAT CHILD GET SUPPRESSED? BECAUSE --
MR. HEVESI: WHAT -- WHAT STATEMENTS?
MR. MOLITOR: ALL THE STATEMENTS OF THAT CHILD.
MR. HEVESI: WHAT STATEMENTS DID THE CHILD MAKE?
(CROSS-TALK)
MR. MOLITOR: LET'S SAY THE STATEMENTS WERE --
LET'S SAY THE STATEMENT WERE INCRIMINATING. I COMMITTED THE CRIME,
RIGHT?
MR. HEVESI: IS THIS -- IS THIS AFTER CUSTODY? I -- I
WANT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, I'M JUST TRYING TO SET THE -- THE
HYPOTHETICAL.
MR. MOLITOR: YEAH. SO, THE CHILD'S IN CUSTODY,
RIGHT?
MR. HEVESI: TAKEN INTO CUSTODY.
MR. MOLITOR: THE CHILD GETS AN ATTORNEY.
MR. HEVESI: YUP.
MR. MOLITOR: THE ATTORNEY SAYS --
MR. HEVESI: YOU SHOULD WAIVE YOUR RIGHT --
MR. MOLITOR: I DO NOT THINK YOU SHOULD WAIVE
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YOUR RIGHTS --
MR. HEVESI: OKAY.
MR. MOLITOR: -- RIGHT? YOU SHOULD NOT TALK TO THE
POLICE.
MR. HEVESI: AND THE CHILD IGNORES IT.
MR. MOLITOR: IGNORES IT.
MR. HEVESI: OKAY.
MR. MOLITOR: STATEMENTS WILL STILL GET
SUPPRESSED, WON'T THEY?
MR. HEVESI: WHICH STATEMENTS?
MR. MOLITOR: THE STATEMENTS THAT THE CHILD MADE.
THE ADMISSION --
MR. HEVESI: WHEN IN CUSTODY, OR -- OR -- SO THAT'S
-- THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE LOSING ME. FORGIVE ME.
MR. MOLITOR: THEY'RE IN CUSTODY.
MR. HEVESI: THE -- THE -- OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
MR. MOLITOR: LET'S -- LET'S --
MR. HEVESI: I -- I THINK -- I THINK I GET IT.
MR. MOLITOR: LET ME USE AN EASIER EXAMPLE.
MR. HEVESI: GO AHEAD.
MR. MOLITOR: BEFORE THE POLICE DO ANYTHING, THE
CHILD'S SITTING THERE, RIGHT? NO QUESTIONS ARE BEING ASKED, AND THE CHILD
SAYS, I DID IT. I KILLED MY PARENTS. THAT STATEMENT GETS SUPPRESSED
AUTOMATICALLY, EVEN THOUGH NO QUESTIONS ARE ASKED, RIGHT?
(CONFERENCING)
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MR. HEVESI: SO -- SO THE ANSWER IS NO, THEY'RE NOT
SUPPRESSED. THE KID WAIVED HIS RIGHT. IF THE -- UNDER YOUR
HYPOTHETICAL, IF THAT CHILD WAIVES HIS RIGHT, SO HE'S BEEN ADVISED BY
COUNSEL, YOU SHOULDN'T WAIVE YOUR RIGHT, THAT'S -- THE -- THE CHILD SAID
NO -- THE YOUTH; LET ME STOP USING CHILD -- THE YOUTH SAID, NO, I IGNORE
THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL. OKAY, THEN THEIR STATEMENTS ARE NOT SUPPRESSED.
MR. MOLITOR: WHAT IF WE NEVER GET TO THAT POINT?
WHAT IF THE POLICE DON'T EVEN HAVE -- THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TIME TO
ADVISE THE CHILD OF THE -- OF THEIR MIRANDA RIGHTS AND THE CHILD JUST
SAYS, I DID IT. I DID IT. I KILLED MY PARENTS.
MR. HEVESI: IN CUSTODY OR NOT IN CUSTODY?
MR. MOLITOR: IN CUSTODY.
MR. HEVESI: IN CUSTODY, IF THEY'VE BEEN ADVISED BY
A LAWYER, THEN THE ANSWER IS YES. THAT STATEMENT WILL -- IS NOT
SUPPRESSED.
MR. MOLITOR: SO THE POLICE ARE DRIVING THE KID
BACK TO THE SECURED FACILITY THAT'S SET UP BY THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR, NOT
ASKING HIM ANY QUESTIONS AND THE KID SAYS, I KILLED MY PARENTS. I SHOT
THEM WITH A SHOTGUN. I HATE THEIR GUTS.
MR. HEVESI: KIDS -- KIDS NEVER -- I'M SORRY, THE --
THE -- IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, LAW ENFORCEMENT NEVER ASKED A QUESTION?
MR. MOLITOR: DO YOU SEE THE -- DO YOU SEE THE
PROBLEM THAT WE'RE HAVING HERE? YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT CUSTODY.
MR. HEVESI: BUT HOLD ON. IF LAW ENFORCEMENT
DIDN'T ASK A QUESTION IT'S AN EXCITED UTTERANCE, SO IT IS ADMISSIBLE.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. MOLITOR: WHERE'S THAT EXACTLY IN THE BILL?
MR. HEVESI: IT'S NOT. THAT'S EXISTING LAW.
MR. MOLITOR: WHY ISN'T THAT EXEMPTION IN THIS
BILL?
MR. HEVESI: WHAT -- WHAT EXEMPTION ARE YOU
LOOKING FOR?
MR. MOLITOR: ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.
MR. MOLITOR: THANK YOU, MR. HEVESI.
SEE, THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS BILL. IS -- FOURTH
AMENDMENT JURIS PRUDENCE IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S HISTORICAL. IT'S BEEN
FLUSHED OUT BY THE COURTS. THERE'S PROCEDURE. IT'S BOTH A FACTUAL AND A
LEGAL DETERMINATION. WE CAN'T EVEN HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT'S
CUSTODY AND WHAT'S NOT CUSTODY, BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS A
HIGHLY-REFINED LEGAL CONCEPT. AND THE U.S. SUPREME COURT AND THE
COURTS IN THIS STATE HAVE ESTABLISHED EXCEPTIONS TO THE MIRANDA
REQUIREMENT. BY COD -- BY -- BY PUTTING THIS LANGUAGE IN STATUTE, WE
ARE MAKING OUR RESTRICTIONS MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THE U.S. SUPREME
COURT. WE ARE MAKING IT HARDER FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO DO ITS JOB.
WE'RE -- WE'RE ELIMINATE -- WE'RE COMPLETELY ELIMINATING THE PROCESS
THAT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR HUNDREDS -- FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS NOW.
LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING. I WAS A FORMER DEFENSE
LAWYER.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. HEVESI, WHY DO
YOU RISE?
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. HEVESI: WILL THE GENTLEMAN YIELD?
MR. MOLITOR: NO, THANK YOU. ON THE BILL.
I HAVE BEEN A DEFENSE ATTORNEY. NO DEFENSE ATTORNEY
WORTH THEIR SALT WOULD ADVISE THEIR CLIENT TO SPEAK TO THE POLICE FOR ANY
REASON WHATSOEVER IF THEY WERE UNDER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. SO WHAT
THIS DOES IS THIS EFFECTIVELY KILLS THAT INVESTIGATIVE TOOL FOR -- FOR POLICE
AGENCIES ALL ACROSS OUR STATE. AND IT'S GONNA, YOU KNOW, JUST ADD IT TO
THE LIST TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO COMMIT CRIMES.
I'LL BE FIRMLY IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. TANNOUSIS.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?
MR. HEVESI: (INDISCERNIBLE/MIC OFF) -- WOULD
YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: HIS TIME -- HIS TIME
IS UP.
MR. HEVESI: YOU KNOW WHAT? WE'LL MAKE IT EASY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: HIS TIME IS UP. MR.
HEVESI, HIS TIME IS UP.
MR. HEVESI: OKAY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. TANNOUSIS.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU. WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. HEVESI: ABSOLUTELY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU.
MR. HEVESI, CAN YOU JUST PLEASE DEFINE WHAT CUSTODY
MEANS IN NEW YORK STATE?
MR. HEVESI: WE GOT IT. GIVE ME ONE SECOND, SIR.
MR. TANNOUSIS: SURE.
(CONFERENCING)
MR. HEVESI: WHILE WE'RE LOOKING IT UP, DO ME A
FAVOR. IF YOU HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU, CAN YOU TELL THE BODY?
MR. TANNOUSIS: NO, I'D RATHER WAIT FOR YOU, SIR.
THAT'S WHY I GET TO ASK THE QUESTIONS AND YOU GET TO ANSWER THEM.
MR. HEVESI: OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU FOR THE OFFER.
(CONFERENCING)
MR. HEVESI: THE STANDARD THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH --
MR. TANNOUSIS: YEP.
MR. HEVESI: -- IS THAT THE PERSON IS NOT -- BELIEVE
THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. SO BASICALLY, IF YOU ARE --
BASICALLY, THE DEFINITION OF CUSTODY IN NEW YORK, THEN, IS IF AN
INDIVIDUAL IS NOT FREE TO LEAVE A SCENE; IS THAT CORRECT?
MR. HEVESI: YES.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. SO COMMONPLACE IN NEW
YORK CITY, RIGHT, WE BOTH REPRESENT PARTS OF NEW YORK CITY, RIGHT,
COPS SHOW UP TO A SCENE, LET'S SAY THERE'S ABOUT A HUNDRED PEOPLE IN THE
STREET, RIGHT? COPS SHOW UP, MAYBE THEY SEE SOMEBODY ON THE GROUND.
THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED. WOULD YOU AGREE, MR. HEVESI?
MR. HEVESI: TO YOUR HYPOTHETICAL, SURE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OF COURSE NOT, RIGHT? NO
RATIONAL PERSON WOULD REAL -- THINK THAT THE POLICE KNEW WHAT WAS
GOING ON. ARE WE NOW EXPECTING THE POLICE TO SHOW UP AND NOT SAY A
WORD TO ANYBODY?
MR. HEVESI: NO. QUITE THE REVERSE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: WHAT ARE WE EXPECTING?
MR. HEVESI: WE'RE EXPECTING THAT THEY DON'T TAKE
IN YOUTH INTO CUSTODY WITHOUT LETTING THOSE YOUTH UNDERSTAND TRULY
WHAT THEIR MIRANDA RIGHTS ARE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: WELL, ACTUALLY, MR. HEVESI --
MR. HEVESI: THAT'S THE GOAL.
MR. TANNOUSIS: -- THAT'S AN INTERESTING RESPONSE.
BECAUSE YOU JUST TOLD US THAT SOMEBODY IS IN CUSTODY WHEN THEY ARE
NOT FREE TO LEAVE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
MR. HEVESI: YES, BUT IT -- BUT -- AND LET ME AMEND
BECAUSE COUNSEL CAME OVER AS WE WERE GOING BACK AND FORTH. IT'S -- IT'S
SUBJECT TO THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES. THAT'S -- THAT'S THE -- THE
CURRENT LAW. SO...
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. SO LET'S TAKE THE TOTALITY
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
(CONFERENCING)
MR. HEVESI: YEAH. SO COUNSEL TELLS ME, AND I
THINK YOUR COLLEAGUE TO YOUR -- TO YOUR LEFT WAS CORRECT BEFORE. THERE'S
AN OBJECTIVE STANDARD AND SUBJECTIVE. SO IT'S ARE YOU ABLE TO LEAVE,
RIGHT, AND THEN ARE YOU ACTUALLY BEING DETAINED AND ARE YOU -- DO YOU
BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO LEAVE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. SO NOW IT'S ARE YOU
ACTUALLY DETAINED AND DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE THE
SCENE?
MR. HEVESI: THAT'S PART OF THE CURRENT LAW THAT --
THAT YOUR -- YOUR COLLEAGUE REFERENCED. SO, YES.
MR. TANNOUSIS: WELL, THAT'S -- THAT'S THE LAW THAT
YOU ARE SPONSORING, CORRECT? BECAUSE NOW --
MR. HEVESI: NO, NO, NO, NO. THAT'S EXISTING LAW,
MY FRIEND.
MR. TANNOUSIS: WELL, LET'S -- LET'S -- LET'S -- LET'S
THINK THIS THROUGH, MR. HEVESI.
MR. HEVESI: PLEASE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: COPS SHOW UP TO A SCENE.
THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED. MAYBE THERE'S SOMEBODY
ON THE GROUND, RIGHT? WOULD YOU SAY THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE OVER,
POTENTIALLY, THIS INDIVIDUAL OR NEXT TO THE INDIVIDUAL BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE
FREE TO LEAVE AT THAT POINT?
(CONFERENCING)
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. HEVESI: OKAY. SO THERE'S -- THERE'S A
DISTINCTION HERE. GIVE ME ONE SECOND BECAUSE I WANT TO CLEAR THIS UP
AND CLARIFY THIS.
MR. TANNOUSIS: I APPRECIATE IT.
(CONFERENCING)
MR. HEVESI: ASK THE QUESTION ONE MORE TIME, SIR.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. POLICE SHOW UP TO A
SCENE. LET'S SAY THERE'S ABOUT 50, 60 PEOPLE ON THE STREET. MAYBE
THERE'S SOMEBODY ON THE GROUND.
MR. HEVESI: YEAH.
MR. TANNOUSIS: PEOPLE -- THE POLICE APPROACH
THE SCENE WITH THE PERSON ON THE GROUND AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AROUND
THAT INDIVIDUAL. POLICE START ASKING QUESTIONS NOW. WOULD YOU SAY
THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE FREE TO LEAVE?
MR. HEVESI: YES. I WOULD SAY THAT IF THEY'RE NOT IN
CUSTODY, BUT, BUT --
MR. TANNOUSIS: REALLY?
MR. HEVESI: BUT THE LAW ALLOWS, IF I'M -- IF I'M
GETTING THIS RIGHT, THAT IF A PERSON BELIEVES THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO LEAVE --
LET ME -- HERE WE GO. HERE IT IS. THE COURT APPLIES AN OBJECTIVE
CONTEXT-SPECIFIC TEST THAT CONSIDERS THE DEGREE OF INTIMIDATION THAT A
REASONABLE PERSON IN THE SUSPECT'S SHOES WOULD FEEL IF HE WERE -- HE
WERE FREELY -- TO FREELY EXERCISE HIS RIGHT AGAINST SELF-INCRIMINATION.
SO THE COURT APPLIES A TEST, PART OF THAT TEST IS WHETHER THE PERSON FELT
THAT THEY WERE DETAINED OR NOT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S -- LET'S
MOVE IT ON BECAUSE --
MR. HEVESI: YEAH.
MR. TANNOUSIS: -- I THINK THIS IS -- YOU KNOW, IT'S
NOT YOUR FAULT. THIS IS NOT YOUR BILL SO I UNDERSTAND. IT'S JUST A
RIDICULOUS BILL.
ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU, MR. HEVESI.
MR. HEVESI: SIR.
MR. TANNOUSIS: LET'S SAY WE GET TO THE POINT
WHERE SOMEBODY NOW IS ACTUALLY IN CUSTODY AND THEY ARE TO NOTIFY THE
PARENTS. WHO GIVES THEM THE INFORMATION FOR THE PARENTS FOR THEM TO
NOTIFY?
MR. HEVESI: THE KID.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THE KID?
MR. HEVESI: THE YOUTH. WE -- WE COVERED THIS IN
THE LAST ROUND OF QUESTIONING WHERE YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GIVE PEDIGREE
INFORMATION.
MR. TANNOUSIS: SO NOW WE ARE EXPECTING THE
MINOR, WHO'S UNDER 18, TO BE TRUTHFUL AND PROVIDE, HOPEFULLY, THE
PHONE NUMBER AND CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THEIR PARENTS AT THE SCENE?
MR. HEVESI: YES, WE WOULD HOPE SO.
MR. TANNOUSIS: AND WE ARE ALSO SAYING THAT
EVERY REASONABLE EFFORT MADE. WHAT EXACTLY IS -- DOES REASONABLE
EFFORT MEAN?
MR. HEVESI: THE REASONABLE EFFORT IS A STANDARD
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
THAT WE'RE APPLYING IF THE POLICE CAN'T, FOR SAFETY REASONS, CONTACT THE
KID. THEY GOT TO GET OUT OF THE CIRCUMSTANCE. SO LET'S USE YOUR
HYPOTHETICAL. THERE'S A HUNDRED KIDS AND THERE'S A MELEE. COPS COME
AND -- GIVE ME ONE SECOND.
MR. TANNOUSIS: SURE.
(CONFERENCING)
MR. HEVESI: FORGIVE ME, I LOST MY TRAIN OF
THOUGHT. ASKS ME THE UNDERLYING QUESTION AGAIN. I APOLOGIZE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: WHAT DOES REASONABLE EFFORT --
MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU. I LOST IT. THE REASONABLE
EFFORT STANDARD IS WHAT WE'RE PUTTING IN TO MAKE SURE THAT IF COPS HAVE
TO LEAVE AN UNSAFE SCENE THAT THEY GIVE EVERY REASONABLE EFFORT TO DO
WHAT THIS LAW IS ASKING, WHICH IS CONTACT THEIR PARENT OR THE PERSON
LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE. BUT IF THEY CAN'T DO THAT FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY
HAVE TO MAKE EVERY REASONABLE EFFORT TO TRY TO DO THAT. BUT IF THE SCENE
IS UNSAFE, THEY CAN LEAVE AND CONTACT THEIR PARENT LATER.
MR. TANNOUSIS: SO THEN WHAT HAPPENS IF THE
INDIVIDUAL REFUSES TO GIVE THEIR PARENTS' CONTACT INFORMATION OR THEIR
PARENTS' NAMES?
MR. HEVESI: WELL, THEN THE POLICE HAVE TRIED TO
CONTACT THE PARENT. I BELIEVE THAT CONSTITUTES A REASONABLE EFFORT ON
THEIR PART TO TRY TO CONTACT THE PARENTS.
MR. TANNOUSIS: SO NOW THEY'RE ALLOWED TO TAKE
THAT PERSON INTO CUSTODY AND QUESTION THEM?
MR. HEVESI: IF THEY'VE TRIED TO CONTACT THE PARENTS,
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
YES.
MR. TANNOUSIS: WELL, NO --
MR. HEVESI: (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) REASONABLE
--
MR. TANNOUSIS: I'M -- I'M SAYING -- FORGET THE
TRYING. LET'S SAY THAT INDIVIDUAL REFUSES TO GIVE THEIR PARENTS'
INFORMATION --
MR. HEVESI: OKAY.
MR. TANNOUSIS: -- OR CONTACT INFORMATION. WHAT
HAPPENS THEN?
MR. HEVESI: THEN IT -- THAT CIRCUMSTANCE -- THEN
OBVIOUSLY THE POLICE CAN'T CONTACT THE PARENTS, BUT THE POLICE IN THAT
CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DETERMINED TO HAVE MADE EVERY
REASONABLE EFFORT. THEY DID EVERYTHING RIGHT.
MR. TANNOUSIS: SO -- SO NOW THAT GOES TO MY
SECOND QUESTION.
MR. HEVESI: YEAH.
MR. TANNOUSIS: ARE THEY NOW ALLOWED TO
QUESTION THAT INDIVIDUAL?
MR. HEVESI: NO, BECAUSE -- NO. BECAUSE THAT'S THE
FIRST PART OF THE BILL. THAT'S PARENTS. NOW THEY HAVE TO GO AND BEFORE
THE YOUNGSTER IS READ THEIR MIRANDA RIGHTS THEY HAVE TO HAVE CONTACT
WITH AN ATTORNEY.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. SO NOW, EVEN THOUGH
THERE'S BEEN NO CONTACT WITH A PARENT, NOW THE POLICE ARE STILL REQUIRED
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TO NOTIFY AN ATTORNEY -- TO GET AN ATTORNEY FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL, CORRECT?
MR. HEVESI: YES.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY.
ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU. WHY IS THE NEW YORK CITY
POLICE DEPARTMENT OPPOSED TO THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION?
MR. HEVESI: SO, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I'VE TALKED TO
THE NYPD, PARTICULARLY LAST YEAR. THEY WERE OPPOSED TO -- TO THE
ENTIRE PRINCIPLE OF IT. THEY WERE NOT CONVINCED BY THE ARGUMENTS FROM
US OR FROM THE SUPREME COURT OR FROM THE -- THE NEW YORK STATE
COURT OF APPEALS THAT ARGUES THAT KIDS WHO ARE IN CUSTODIAL
INTERROGATION ARE JUST NOT ABLE TO HANDLE IT. SO THAT WAS NUMBER ONE.
SO THEY -- IN GENERAL THEY DIDN'T LIKE THIS IN PRINCIPLE. BUT THEY ALSO
SPECIFICALLY DIDN'T LIKE THE NOTIFICATION THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THAT
THE POLICE HAVE TO MAKE EVERY REASONABLE EFFORT. SO WHAT WE DID WAS
WE AMENDED IT ON THEIR BEHALF TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS BILL CLARIFIES THAT
THE NYPD HAVE TO MAKE EVERY REASONABLE EFFORT BEFORE THEY LEAVE THE
SCENE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: OKAY. BUT MY UNDERSTANDING, OF
COURSE, IS THAT THE NYPD IS STILL OPPOSED TO THIS BILL.
MR. HEVESI: I'M SURE THEY ARE. BUT WE'VE CLARIFIED
-- THEY -- THEY HAD TWO MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH THE BILL; ONE WOULD HAVE
GUT THE ENTIRE BILL. THE PURPOSE OF THE BILL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE
YOUTH GET ACCESS TO AN ADULT THIRD-PARTY WHO'S LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BEST
INTERESTS. SO, THE NYPD DIDN'T AGREE WITH THAT, SO WE MOVED AHEAD
ANYWAY. BUT WITH THE PIECE ABOUT NOTIFICATION TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR
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LAW -- LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ARE CLEAR ON WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO, WE
MADE THE AMENDMENT.
MR. TANNOUSIS: ALL RIGHT. WELL, THANK YOU SO
MUCH TIME -- THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, MR. HEVESI.
MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU.
MR. TANNOUSIS: ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.
MR. TANNOUSIS: SO, I DEBATED THIS BILL FOUR YEARS
AGO. THE BILL, I BELIEVED AT THAT TIME, WAS ONE OF THE STUPIDEST PIECES
OF LEGISLATION THAT I HAVE SEEN THROUGH THIS ASSEMBLY. I STILL BELIEVE IT
TO BE THE SAME. THIS IS NOT LOGISTICALLY CORRECT, AND IT WILL NOT -- IT WILL
HAVE A TREMENDOUSLY NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE POTENTIAL INVESTIGATION OF
CASES. POLICE RESPOND TO A SCENE, THEY ARE THERE TO INVESTIGATE. THEY
ARE THERE TO TALK TO PEOPLE. IF THEY NOW HAVE TO TAKE AWAY FROM THOSE
EFFORTS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO RELY ON THE INDIVIDUALS THEY ARE
QUESTIONING TO GIVE THEM INFORMATION FOR THEIR PARENTS AND TO SPEND THE
TIME TO CONTACT THEM, WHICH WILL NOW PRECLUDE THEM FROM FINDING OUT
MORE INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO ADEQUATELY INVESTIGATE THE CASE, THIS
WILL ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY COMPROMISE A LOT OF INVESTIGATIONS. MOST OF THE
TIME, I WOULD SAY ABOUT 99 PERCENT OF THE TIME, MOST OF THE
INVESTIGATION OCCURS ON THE SCENE. THE POLICE SHOW UP, THEY SEE WHAT
-- THEY OBSERVE CERTAIN THINGS. THEY QUESTION CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS.
THEY GATHER CERTAIN EVIDENCE. AND BASED ON THAT, THAT'S WHERE A CASE
IS -- BEGINS TO BE BUILT. THIS, HOWEVER, WILL MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO
DO THAT.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
AT MY TIME AS A BRONX ADA, NOT ONLY DID I OBSERVE
SITUATIONS, UNFORTUNATELY, WHERE A LOT OF MINORS WERE ARRESTED AND
CHARGED WITH CRIMES. I ALSO OBSERVED MANY TIMES WHERE DEFENSE
ATTORNEYS THEMSELVES, AFTER THESE CHIL -- THESE INDIVIDUALS WERE ARRESTED
AND BROUGHT TO COURT AND AWAITING ARRAIGNMENT, AND I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN
TO EXPLAIN HOW MANY TIMES A CASE WAS SECOND-CALLED, THIRD-CALLED,
CALLED AGAIN ON THE FOURTH TIME BECAUSE THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY CAN --
CANNOT GET IN TOUCH WITH A GUARDIAN AND THE JUDGE REFUSED TO ARRAIGN
THE CASE UNTIL A GUARDIAN WAS CONTACTED FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL. ARE WE
NOW REALLY EXPECTING THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO
NOTIFY A PARENT ON THE SCENE WITH POTENTIAL EVIDENCE ON THE STREET?
WOULDN'T A DEFENSE ATTORNEY THEMSELVES COULD HAVE NOTIFIED THE
PARENTS? AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOURS LATER FROM THE COURTROOM?
HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
I'M SORRY, THIS IS RIDICULOUS AND I VOTE NO.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER.
ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.
MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: CUSTODY DOESN'T
NECESSARILY MEAN ARREST AS WE -- WE HERE. CUSTODY IS WHEN YOU'RE --
ONE IS IN A POSITION WHERE THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE NOT FREE TO LEAVE,
AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN WHERE OUR
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
CHILDREN ARE APPROACHED BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AND THEY'RE HELD
IN CUSTODY. AND VERY OFTEN, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE YOUNG, 16- AND
17-YEAR-OLDS, THEY DON'T KNOW THEIR RIGHTS. THEY ARE SPONTANEOUSLY
UTTERING ANYTHING, EVEN IF THEY'RE INNOCENT. AND WE KNOW THAT WE HAD
PASSED RAISE THE AGE WHERE 16- AND 17-YEAR-OLDS WHO ARE BEING
CHARGED MALICIOUS -- MALICIOUSLY OF CRIMES THAT WERE NONVIOLENT AND
THEY WERE BEING CHARGED AS ADULTS. WE WERE ONE OF THE LAST TWO STATES
THAT FINALLY PASSED RAISE THE AGE. AND BECAUSE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING
WHERE MANY CHILDREN ARE WAIVING THEIR FIFTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS, THEIR
MIRANDA RIGHTS, YOU STILL SEE A HIGH NUMBER OF CHILDREN, ESPECIALLY IN
VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES, MINORITY COMMUNITIES ARE GETTING -- ARE
INCRIMINATED BECAUSE OF EXCITED UTTERANCE, SPONTANEOUS UTTERANCE, THEY
DON'T HAVE THE KNOWING FACTOR, THE INTELLIGENT FACTOR AND THE VOLUNTARY
FACTOR. THEY JUST SAY ANYTHING. SO THIS BILL THAT MY COLLEAGUE HAS IS TO
PROTECT THEM. IT'S TO MAKE SURE THAT IF A PARENT, AN ATTORNEY OR SOMEONE
WHO'S GOING TO PROTECT THEM, BECAUSE THOSE VERY STATEMENTS THAT ARE
MADE OR UTTERED OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS CAN BE USED AGAINST THEM,
INCRIMINATING STATEMENTS. AND IF YOU COME BEFORE A JURY, GUESS WHAT?
EVIDENCE IS -- IS ADMITTED, IT'S ADMISSIBLE BECAUSE IT WAS EXCITED
UTTERANCE, AND THEN YOU HAVE A JURY WHO'S GOING TO USE THAT EVIDENCE
AND IT'S GOING TO BE VERY PREJUDICIAL.
THIS BILL IS GOING TO KEEP OUR KIDS SAFE BY NOTIFYING
THE ADULT IN THEIR LIFE WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND REDUCE UNNECESSARY
TRAUMA FOR THAT SAID CHILD BY NOT TAKING THEM DIRECTLY TO THE
STATIONHOUSE AND INSTEAD WAIT TO SEE IF IT'S NEEDED TO TAKE THEM TO A
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MORE APPROPRIATE LOCATION. LET'S JUST TAKE THEM AT HOME IF THEY DON'T
NEED TO BE QUESTIONED. THIS WILL KEEP OUR KIDS INFORMED OF THEIR RIGHTS
BY MAKING THEM BE IN CONTACT WITH AN ATTORNEY BEFORE THEY'RE
QUESTIONED. IT REDUCES THE RISK OF THEM UNKNOWINGLY WAIVING THEIR
MIRANDA RIGHTS AND THE RIGHTS TO REMAIN SILENT.
MY COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE ALWAYS TALK
ABOUT HOW THEY WANT TO DO BETTER FOR OUR CHILDREN AND OUR
COMMUNITIES. OUR CHILDREN ARE NOT MURDERERS, THEY'RE NOT RAPISTS,
THEY'RE NOT ALL THOSE BAD THINGS. AND AGAIN, VERY OFTEN WHEN BLACK
AND BROWN KIDS ARE APPROACHED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND
THEY'RE INNOCENT, ANYTHING CAN BE SAID. THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW
THEY'RE ARRESTED AND THEY'RE IN CUSTODY AND THEY'RE IN JAIL. THIS BILL WILL
DIRECTLY ADD NEW SAFEGUARDS TO POTENTIAL (INDISCERNIBLE) WHILE THEY ARE
IN ONE OF THE MOST VULNERABLE MOMENTS AND FOR THIS, MADAM SPEAKER, I
THANK MY COLLEAGUE FOR DOING THIS. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. I THINK WE
SHOULD DO THIS FOR THOSE AS WELL IN MANY CASES BECAUSE ADULTS, YOU
KNOW, ARE VERY OFTEN ARE WAIVING THEIR RIGHTS.
SO I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUE FOR THIS BILL AND I
WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. ANGELINO.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
WOULD YOU ASK THE SPONSOR TO YIELD?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR
YIELD?
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MR. HEVESI: YES, SIR.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.
MR. ANGELINO: I HAD NOT INTENDED TO ASK
ANYTHING, BUT THE LONGER THIS GOES ON THE MORE QUESTIONS START COMING
UP BUT I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. HEVESI: SURE.
MR. ANGELINO: I HEARD YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT
-- WELL, FIRST OFF, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR. OFFICER TAKES 16,
17-YEAR-OLD OR YOUNGER INTO CUSTODY, ONCE THEY'RE MIRANDIZED, THEY
CAN'T GO BACK TO THE STATION UNTIL PARENTS ARE NOTIFIED IF I REMEMBER
CORRECTLY.
MR. HEVESI: YES. EVERY REASONABLE EFFORT IS MADE
TO NOTIFY THEIR PARENTS.
MR. ANGELINO: AND THEN, DO YOU ENVISION THEIR
PARENTS ARE COMING TO THE SCENE?
MR. HEVESI: YEAH, IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES THEY
COULD. THAT'S (INDISCERNIBLE), RIGHT?
MR. ANGELINO: BUT ULTI -- BUT EVENTUALLY IF A
YOUTH IS MIRANDIZED, THE PARENTS CANNOT WAIVE IT.
MR. HEVESI: WELL, LET ME TAKE A STEP BACK. THE
BILL -- WE'RE HOPING THAT THE YOUTH DOESN'T GET MIRANDIZED WITHOUT AN
ATTORNEY BEING CONTACTED. BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. NO. A PARENT CANNOT
WAIVE THIS ON BEHALF OF THEIR CHILD.
MR. ANGELINO: YEAH, I HEARD YOU SAY THAT.
MR. HEVESI: YEP.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. ANGELINO: YOU SAID I THINK SOMETHING TO
PARAPHRASING, A THIRD-PARTY NONINVOLVED PERSON WILL MAKE THE DECISION.
MR. HEVESI: YES.
MR. ANGELINO: WHY IS THAT BETTER THAN THE PARENT
MAKING A DECISION FOR THEIR CHILD?
MR. HEVESI: GREAT QUESTION. AND THANK YOU FOR
ASKING IT BECAUSE AS A -- AS A PARENT MYSELF IT'S SORT OF
COUNTER-INTUITIVE, BUT LET ME TAKE YOU THROUGH -- LET ME TAKE YOU
THROUGH WHY THE PARENTS CAN'T WAIVE THIS RIGHT AND WHY YOU'RE NOT JUST
ASKING FOR THE PARENTS TO BE CONTACTED.
SO, NUMBER ONE, STRANGELY, THE PRESENCE OF A PARENT
DOES NOT SERVE THE PROTECTIVE FUNCTION ANY OF US WOULD EXPECT. I WILL
GIVE YOU THE CASE OF A GENTLEMAN NAMED STEVEN RUFFIN ACTUALLY WAS
WRONGFULLY CONVICTED IN A PRISON FOR ALMOST 14 YEARS AFTER HIS FATHER
CAME DOWN TO THE STATION AND ENCOURAGED HIM TO CONFESS. AND WE SEE
PARENTS WHO ENCOURAGE THEIR KIDS TO SPEAK TO THE POLICE AGAINST THEIR
CHILD'S BEST INTEREST OUT OF A NUMBER OF THINGS, OUT OF FEAR, OUT OF
RESPECT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT, FRUSTRATION AND THERE'S A FEW MORE. LET
ME JUST TOUCH ON THESE. I THINK IT'LL BE HELPFUL.
NUMBER ONE, MOST PARENTS DON'T UNDERSTAND MIRANDA.
THERE ARE PARENTS WHO MAY HAVE FINANCIAL CONCERNS ABOUT THIS CASE
CONSIDERING THEY HAVE TO MISS WORK OR THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT COURT FEES
OR TRANSPORTATION. SOME PARENTS ARE WORRIED ABOUT HUMILIATION OR
STIGMA. AND THEN FINALLY THE LAST THING IS PARENTS SOCIAL THEIR KIDS TO
COMPLY WITH AUTHORITY FIGURES. AND IN MOST CIRCUMSTANCES THAT'S
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HELPFUL. IN THIS PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE THAT'S -- THAT'S DANGEROUS. SO
FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS PARENTS ARE NOT ABLE TO WAIVE THAT RIGHT.
MR. ANGELINO: SO A THIRD-PARTY ACTUALLY IS --
MR. HEVESI: A LAWYER.
MR. ANGELINO: -- TAKING, RIGHT, A LAWYER --
MR. ANGELINO: YEP.
MR. ANGELINO: -- IS ACTUALLY IN THE POSITION OF
BEING A PARENT, THEN.
MR. HEVESI: NO, NO. THE LAWYER IS GOING TO
PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT THE PARENT WOULDN'T HAVE --
MR. ANGELINO: RIGHT.
MR. HEVESI: -- FOR EXAMPLE. LET'S SAY
HYPOTHETICALLY A CHILD IS TAKEN INTO CUSTODY AND CALLS IN HIS PARENTS AND
SAYS TO HIS PARENTS, HEY, WHEN IS MY RECORD GOING TO BE EXPUNGED IF I
PLEAD GUILTY TO ASSAULT TWO? A PARENT'S NOT GOING TO KNOW THAT.
MR. ANGELINO: RIGHT.
MR. HEVESI: A LAWYER MIGHT, AND BY THE WAY IT
WAS A TRICK QUESTION. IN NEW YORK STATE YOU -- YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR
RECORD EXPUNGED. SO -- SO YOU CAN'T HAVE A PARENT. YOU NEED A
LAWYER.
MR. ANGELINO: SO AFTER THE ATTORNEY SAYS, DON'T
WAIVE YOUR RIGHT, CAN THE PARENT SAY NO, I WANT HIM TO TALK TO THE
POLICE?
MR. HEVESI: SURE.
MR. ANGELINO: AND THAT'S STILL GOING TO BE
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ADMITTED, THEN, IF THE PARENT --
MR. HEVESI: IF -- AS LONG AS THE -- THE -- THE YOUTH
HAS BEEN MADE AWARE OF HIS RIGHTS BY COUNSEL --
MR. ANGELINO: RIGHT.
MR. HEVESI: -- IF HE WAIVES HIS RIGHT AFTER THAT, THEN
JUST RIGHTS ARE WAIVED. THEN HE DOES NOT HAVE TO --
(INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)
MR. ANGELINO: THAT -- THAT SOUNDS CONTRARY TO
WHAT I WAS TAUGHT BECAUSE ONCE A LAWYER, BASICALLY THEY'VE LAWYERED
UP, THEY SAY.
MR. HEVESI: YEAH.
MR. ANGELINO: THEY -- WE CAN'T USE ANYTHING.
MR. HEVESI: I -- I THINK THERE'S A FUNDAMENTAL
MISUNDERSTANDING.
MR. ANGELINO: IT'S BEEN YEARS OF A
MISUNDERSTANDING, THEN. BUT --
MR. HEVESI: SO -- TELL -- TELL ME, MAYBE I'M GETTING
WRONG, IT'S POSSIBLE.
MR. ANGELINO: ONCE A PERSON IN OUR VERNACULAR
"LAWYER'S UP", YOU CAN'T ASK THEM ANYMORE QUESTIONS. SO ONCE THEY
ASK FOR THEIR ATTORNEY TO SHOW UP, AND THE ATTORNEY SAYS, MY CLIENT IS
NOT GOING TO WAIVE THEIR RIGHTS, THEY'RE GOING TO REMAIN SILENT, CAN A
PARENT SAY NO, I WANT THEM TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS?
MR. HEVESI: THAT -- THAT DECISION WILL ULTIMATELY
RESIDE WITH THE YOUTH, BUT AS LONG -- SO -- SO FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, AS
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LONG AS IT'S BEEN MADE -- A LAWYER'S BEEN MADE AVAILABLE TO HIM SO HE
HAS GOOD LEGAL ADVICE, IF HE DECIDES TO WAIVE THAT LEGAL ADVICE, THAT'S
ON HIM.
MR. ANGELINO: I DON'T KNOW IF THEY CAN DO THAT.
MR. HEVESI: I BELIEVE THEY CAN. I'M CONFIDENT THEY
CAN.
MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. VERY GOOD. SO THE WHOLE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE AND IT'S -- IT'S
BEEN -- IT'S BEEN MODIFIED QUITE A BIT IN THE LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS. WHAT IS
THE GOAL OF OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IN NEW YORK STATE?
MR. HEVESI: WHAT'S THE GOAL OF OUR CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM?
MR. ANGELINO: I THINK IT'S WHAT I WAS TAUGHT --
MR. HEVESI: I WOULD -- I WOULD SAY TO KEEP US
SAFE, BUT THE --
MR. ANGELINO: I ALWAYS THOUGHT -- I ALWAYS
THOUGHT IT WAS TO GET THE TRUTH OUT.
MR. HEVESI: THAT'S RIGHT, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY WE
DON'T WANT KIDS WHO ARE AT THREE TIMES THE RATE FALSELY CONFESSING TO
CRIMES THEY DIDN'T COMMIT. YOU'RE RIGHT. WE WANT TO GET THE TRUTH.
MR. ANGELINO: HOW DO WE GET THE TRUTH IF WE
KEEP MAKING IT MORE AND MORE CUMBERSOME TO EVEN ASK THE
QUESTIONS?
MR. HEVESI: IT'S -- IT'S NOT -- SO -- SO WHAT YOU'RE
TRYING TO AVOID IS UNRELIABLE INFORMATION. YOU'RE TRYING TO -- TO AVOID
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FALSIFIED INFORMATION. WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THAT KIDS GET INTO THIS
CIRCUMSTANCE. THEY START BEING QUESTIONED AND THEY FALL TO PIECES. I
WILL EVEN -- GIVE ME ONE SECOND, BECAUSE OUR OWN CHIEF JUDGE OF NEW
YORK STATE COURT OF APPEALS MENTIONED THAT, CHILDREN DO RESORT TO
FALSEHOOD TO ALLEVIATE DISCOMFORT AND SATISFY THE EXPECTATIONS OF THOSE
IN AUTHORITY, AND IN DOING SO OFTEN NEGLECT TO CONSIDER THE SERIOUS AND
LASTING CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ELECTION. THERE ARE DEVELOPMENTAL
REASONS FOR THIS BEHAVIOR WHICH WE IGNORE AT THE PERIL OF THE
TRUTH-SEEKING PROCESS. THIS IS ABOUT GETTING TO THE TRUTH. WHAT WE'RE
TRYING TO AVOID IS HAVING THESE KIDS GIVE FALSE INFORMATION. AND BY THE
WAY, LET ME -- LET ME TOUCH ON ONE LAST THING. I THINK THIS IS PRETTY
IMPORTANT, AND FORGIVE ME, MY NOTES ARE ALL OVER THE PLACES. HERE'S
ONE THING THAT I'M REALLY TRYING TO AVOID.
IN 2021 THERE WAS A STUDY, A NATIONAL REGISTRY OF
EXONERATION -- EXONERATED PERSONS THAT SAYS OF THE 288 EXONERATED
PEOPLES SINCE 1989 IN NEW YORK STATE, 25 OF THEM WERE UNDER 18 AT
THE TIME OF ARREST. ALL RIGHT? SO WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET
THE PERPETRATORS OF THE ACTUAL CRIMES, NOT THESE KIDS WHO ARE
CONFESSING AT THREE TIMES THE RATE BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE COGNITIVE
CAPACITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES --
(CROSS-TALK)
MR. ANGELINO: AND THAT NUMBER WAS 288 TIMES?
MR. HEVESI: IT WAS 288 EXONERATED IN NEW YORK
STATE SINCE 1989.
MR. ANGELINO: ALL RIGHT. EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE,
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AND IT HAPPENS WITH SOME REGULARITY AT ANY POLICE STATION ANYWHERE, A
PARENT COMES STORMING INTO THE STATION WITH A KID IN TOW AND SAYS TELL
THEM WHAT YOU DID OR I WANT HIM TO TELL YOU. NOW WHAT DO WE DO?
AND SOME OF THOSE HAVE BEEN PRETTY BAD; CAR THEFT --
MR. HEVESI: YEAH.
MR. ANGELINO: -- STOLE A GUN, THINGS LIKE THAT.
MR. HEVESI: YEAH.
MR. ANGELINO: SO THOSE DAYS ARE GONE.
MR. HEVESI: YEAH, SO -- SO WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT
SOMETIMES -- SO AS A PARENT THIS IS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO SAY BECAUSE I
WANT TO BE THERE TO GIVE MY KID ADVICE. BUT PARENTS COME INTO THE
SITUATION FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS OFTEN PUSH THE KID TO ANSWER THE
OFFICER'S QUESTION, OR THE OFFICERS WILL SAY SOMETHING LIKE HEY, YOU
GOTTA TELL YOUR MOM THE TRUTH. SO -- SO ADDING PARENTS TO THAT DYNAMIC
IS NOT THE -- THE WAY TO SOLVE IT. THE WAY TO SOLVE IT IS TO HAVE
SOMEBODY WHO'S AN INDEPENDENT THIRD-PARTY.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MR. SPONSOR.
MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. ANGELINO: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.
MR. ANGELINO: SO NOT EVERYWHERE IN NEW YORK
STATE IS NEW YORK CITY. WE DON'T HAVE COPS ON EACH BLOCK WALKING OR
IN AN RMP, THE -- THERE'S TROOPERS AND DEPUTIES OUT THERE THAT ARE MILES
AND MILES AWAY WITH NO CELL SERVICE, AND TRYING TO FIND A LOCATION THAT
THE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION HAS DESIGNATED AS A PLACE TO
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QUESTION YOUTH IS NOT EASY. I THINK MY COUNTY HAS THREE FOR 900 -- 905
SQUARE MILES AND THERE ARE CHILDREN NOW WHO ARE COMMITTING ADULT
CRIMES, THEY ALWAYS HAVE, BUT NOW LARGELY BECAUSE OF WHAT'S HAPPENED
IN THE LEGISLATURE AND THE LAWS THAT HAVE BEEN ENACTED, THESE YOUTH ARE
ACTUALLY BEING GROOMED BY ADULTS TO COMMIT CRIMES BECAUSE THEY
KNOW NOTHING'S GOING TO HAPPEN AND THIS IS ONE MORE STEP IN THE WAY
OF NEVER GETTING TO THE TRUTH OR JUSTICE FOR A VICTIM OF A CRIME. EVERY
ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE'S LIKELY A VICTIM SOMEPLACE
AND THERE -- THERE ARE GREAT ATTORNEYS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DEFENSE AND
THE PROSECUTION WHO ARE STRIVING TO GET TO IT. BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WE JUST
START HAMSTRINGING THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ON THE STREET WHO ARE
JUST TRYING TO GET TO THE TRUTH, THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM. BUT THIS IS PRETTY CUMBERSOME. IT MIGHT WORK IN NEW YORK
CITY AND I THINK EVERY PRECINCT HOUSE IN NEW YORK CITY HAS A
DESIGNATED AREA, BUT A LOT OF THE QUESTIONING THAT I'VE SEEN HAPPEN
HAPPENS IN THE BACKSEAT OF A POLICE CAR OR STANDING ALONGSIDE OF THE
ROAD WITH A CRIME SCENE NEARBY AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT HAPPENED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. THERE'S A LOT OF TIMES A LONE
TROOPER, A LONE DEPUTY HAS A PERSON UNDER ARREST AND WITNESSES WITH
HIM AND IF ONE OF THOSE WITNESSES, YOU CAN'T DETERMINE IF THEY'RE A
WITNESS OR A PERPETRATOR IT'S KIND OF HARD TO ASK THEM A QUESTION ON THE
SIDE OF THE ROAD WITH A (INDISCERNIBLE).
THIS IS PRETTY CUMBERSOME. I KNOW WHY NYPD
DOESN'T LIKE IT. I DON'T LIKE IT EITHER AND I'LL BE VOTING NO. THANK YOU,
MADAM SPEAKER.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. GIBBS.
MR. GIBBS: THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: YOU'RE ON.
MR. GIBBS: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I
WITHDRAW. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST
SECTION.
THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT APRIL 1,
2026.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS
BEEN REQUESTED.
MS. WALSH.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE
REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION. ANY OTHER VOTES CAN BE CAST AT THEIR SEATS. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, THE
MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER,
THERE MAY BE SOME FOLKS THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE AN EXCEPTION. THEY
SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU. THE
CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.
(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MR. HEVESI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU, MY COLLEAGUES. THANK
YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
LET ME -- I JUST WANT TO CLOSE WITH A COUPLE OF
THOUGHTS BECAUSE IT'S INTERESTING WITHIN LAW ENFORCEMENT THERE ARE
THOSE WHO ARE FOR IT AND THOSE WHO ARE AGAINST IT. JUST SO MY
COLLEAGUES ARE AWARE. WE HAVE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS HERE OR -- OR WE HAVE
COURTS SAYING THAT ENSURE THE CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS IS MORE
IMPORTANT THAN BLIND FOCUS ON SECURING STATEMENTS, THAT THE PROCESS
MUST BE FAIR AND THE OUTCOME ACCURATE FOR IT TO BE LEGIT. AND THAT
FINALLY THIS IS FROM A FORMER COMMISSIONER OF PROBATION: THE INTEGRITY
OF THE SYSTEM NECESSITATES THAT WE ENSURE THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF
CHILDREN ARE NOT ELUSORY. AND I'LL LEAVE YOU WITH THIS POINT. ONE OF
THE ANCILLARY CONSEQUENCES OF THIS WHOLE THING. FIRST, AGAIN, BAD FOR
CHILDREN, BAD FOR THE COMMUNITY, BUT THIS STUDY, A 2020 STUDY ANALYZED
109 WRONGFUL CONVICTION CASES WHERE DNA EVIDENCE WAS EVENTUALLY
USED TO IDENTIFY THE ACTUAL INDIVIDUAL THAT COMMITTED THE CRIME. IN 94
PERCENT OF THOSE CASES THE INDIVIDUAL WHO ESCAPED ARREST -- SO THEY
ARRESTED THE KID OR THE CHILD FALSELY CONFESSED -- THE INDIVIDUAL WHO
ESCAPED THE ARREST WERE DEEMED RESPONSIBLE FOR ADDITIONAL OFFENSES
INCLUDING 43 HOMICIDE-RELATED OFFENSES AND 94 SEX OFFENSES. SO EVERY
TIME THAT WE HAVE A KID WHO FALSELY CONFESSES GOES INTO PRISON ON
UNRELIABLE INFORMATION, THAT MEANS THERE'S A PERB WALKING FREE OR
HURTING OTHER NEW YORKERS.
LET ME END WITH THAT. THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUES
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
FOR YOUR TIME.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. HEVESI IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM
SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.
I JUST WANT TO SAY I KNOW THE -- WHENEVER THERE ARE
SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, IT ALWAYS GET [SIC] TO
BE UPSET PEOPLE BUT IT REALLY SHOULDN'T BECAUSE THE IDEA OF IT IS TO BRING
FORWARD SOMETHING IN THE GOOD. AND I WOULD JUST WONDER FOR PEOPLE
WHO ARE POLICE OFFICERS OR FORMER POLICE OFFICERS OR ATTORNEYS, HOW DO
YOU TELL YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO ACT IF THEY GET STOPPED BY THE POLICE? DO
YOU SAY TO THEM DON'T TALK UNTIL I'M THERE, OR DON'T TALK UNTIL YOU HAVE
LAWYER REPRESENTING -- REPRESENTING YOU? OR DO YOU TELL THEM TO TALK
FREELY, UNDERSTANDING THAT WHATEVER THEIR FREE TALK IS CAN BE USED
AGAINST THEM. I KNOW TONS OF FAMILIES WHO DO TELL THEIR YOUNG PEOPLE
THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS AND AS A MATTER OF FACT THEY TELL THEM HOW TO
DRIVE, HOW TO HOLD YOUR HANDS ON THE STEERING WHEEL, HOW TO DO ALL
THESE THINGS TO PROTECT YOURSELF, BUT THERE COULD BE SOME INCIDENCES
WHERE THERE'S SOME YOUNG PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN TAUGHT THAT
LESSON. THERE'S NO NEED FOR THEM TO LEARN IT WHILE THEY'RE INCARCERATED
BECAUSE THEY TALKED WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN TALKING. AND SO IF
THEY'RE TALKING WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T BE TALKING IT'S GOING TO BE USED
AGAINST THEM, MAYBE WE SHOULD RECONSIDER HOW WE ALLOW THAT TO
HAPPEN. THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES.
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AND SO I REALLY WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR. I HEARD
ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE SAY THIS ISN'T HIS
BILL, BUT THE WAY HE DEBATED IT TODAY I'M VERY PROUD OF HIM. IT LOOKS
LIKE HIS BILL TO ME. I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MR. REILLY TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
SO AS I SAID DURING THE DEBATE I -- I APPRECIATE THE
INTENT OF THE LEGISLATION. I JUST THINK IT GOES A LITTLE TOO FAR AND IT'S
SOMETHING THAT I SPEAK ABOUT ALL THE TIME WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CRIMINAL
JUSTICE LEGISLATION. WHAT WE HAVE ON PAPER DOESN'T REALLY TRANSITION TO
THE REAL WORLD THE WAY WE THINK IT'S GOING TO. AND THE REASON WHY I
BROUGHT UP THE ISSUES ABOUT THE SPONTANEOUS UTTERANCE IS BECAUSE THESE
ARE REAL LIFE CASES THAT HAPPEN. AND THAT IS GOING TO IMPACT HOW WE
HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. AND JUST LIKE WE DID IN THE
PAST WHERE WE NOW HAD -- WE HAD TO COME BACK MANY YEARS LATER AND
AMEND DISCOVERY, WE AMENDED A LITTLE BIT OF BAIL REFORM. WE WILL BE
BACK HERE AGAIN AMENDING SOME PIECE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE LEGISLATION
THAT MAY INCLUDE THIS, BECAUSE FAR TOO OFTEN WE GO FAR ONE WAY AND WE
TAKE AWAY THE REAL GOOD INTENT THAT'S IN HERE AND IF WE JUST TWEAK THAT, I
THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN COME TO A COMPROMISE ON AND WE
CAN ENSURE THAT JUSTICE IS SERVED FOR EVERYONE; THE CHILDREN THAT ARE THE
VICTIMS, THE CHILDREN THAT ARE THE DEFENDANTS AND FOR FAMILIES TO BE
UNITED. I'LL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS, MADAM SPEAKER.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. REILLY IN THE NEGATIVE.
MR. TANNOUSIS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. TANNOUSIS: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
I HAVE TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR THE SPONSOR OF THIS
LEGISLATION. I JUST HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION BASED ON MY OWN
EXPERIENCES. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, POLICE OFFICERS SHOW UP TO A
SCENE THEY ARE THERE TO ASSIST, TO HELP PEOPLE, TO HELP PEOPLE IN DISTRESS,
TO PROTECT PEOPLE. I THINK THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION LOGISTICALLY WILL NOT
WORK. IT WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THEIR EFFORTS TO ACTUALLY HELP IN A
SITUATION AND NOW POTENTIALLY DO CURTAIL THEM INTO A WHOLE DIFFERENT
AVENUE WHICH MAY HINDER AN ACTUAL PROSECUTION. I APPRECIATE THE
NUMBERS THAT WERE GIVEN BY THE SPONSOR PREVIOUSLY. THE ONLY ISSUE I
DON'T SEE IS THE CONNECTION BETWEEN UNLAW -- CONVICTIONS THAT SHOULDN'T
HAVE HAPPENED CONNECTED TO FALSE CONFESSIONS. THAT I DO NOT SEE. I
BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL NOT BE LOGISTICALLY SOUND. THERE'S A REASON WHY
THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT IS AGAINST THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION BECAUSE IT JUST NOT -- IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. IT WILL
POTENTIALLY HINDER PROSECUTIONS ON THE STREET, INVESTIGATIONS ON THE
STREET, AND PROSECUTIONS IN THE COURTROOM. AND I CANNOT SUPPORT THIS
PIECE OF LEGISLATION. I WILL VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. TANNOUSIS IN
THE NEGATIVE.
MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
SO, I -- I, TOO, APPRECIATE WHERE THIS BILL IS TRYING TO
COME FROM, I DO. I'M VERY CONCERNED THAT FROM WHAT ANECDOTALLY I
HAVE HEARD ABOUT IN SOME CASES COERCED CONFESSIONS FROM INDIVIDUALS
WITH LOW IQ, FROM INDIVIDUALS WHO LACK THE MATURITY OR UNDERSTANDING
TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, THAT'S -- THAT'S A CONCERN. I -- I JUST DON'T
FEEL THAT THIS BILL ADDRESSES IT IN A WAY THAT ACHIEVES THE PROPER BALANCE
AND AS WAS SAID EARLIER DURING THE DEBATE, WHICH I THINK WAS A VERY
GOOD DEBATE. I THINK THAT WE ARE BLESSED AS A GROUP OF 150 OF US TO
HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE FORMER DISTRICT ATTORNEYS, WHO ARE FORMER DEFENSE
ATTORNEYS. WE HAVE A FEW ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLES, JUST NOT
EVERYBODY IS -- IS HERE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE, BUT FROM -- FROM MYSELF
HAVING A FAMILY COURT BACKGROUND, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE 16- AND
17-YEAR-OLDS THAT I SEE IN FAMILY COURT ARE VERY MUCH COMMITTING ADULT
CRIMES. AND I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT THIS TYPE OF LEGISLATION, IN MY
OPINION, HAMSTRINGS LAW ENFORCEMENT TO TOO GREAT OF AN EXTENT AND I
THINK DISRUPTS THE BALANCE THAT WE ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE. AS THE NEW
YORK STATE SHERIFFS' ASSOCIATION STATED IN THEIR OPPOSITION: THE
RECORDING REQUIREMENT FOR CUSTODIAL INTERROGATIONS OF JUVENILES
ALREADY PROVIDES AN AVENUE FOR THE DEFENSE TO CHALLENGE THE
ADMISSIBILITY OF CONFESSIONS CAPTURED IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES BY
WEIGHING A RANGE OF FACTORS THAT BALANCE THE INTEREST OF JUSTICE WITH A
LEGITIMATE COGNITIVE AND EXPERIENTIAL DISADVANTAGES OF YOUTH. I THINK
THAT WE ALREADY HAVE A SYSTEM WHICH DOES THAT. I WOULD ALSO JUST NOTE
THAT THE FRONTAL LOBE ARGUMENT I -- I THINK IS VERY SELECTIVE SOMETIMES
WHEN WE LOOK AT LEGISLATION SO I'LL BE VOTING NO. THANK YOU.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MS. WALSH IN THE NEGATIVE.
MR. ANGELINO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.
MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
ONE OF THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OR ONE OF THE UNINTENDED
CONSEQUENCES OF -- OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, WHEN POLICE OFFICERS
HAD TO STAY AT THE SCENE OR TAKE THE -- THE JUVENILE OR YOUTH HOME,
INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE POLICE STATION CERTAIN THINGS HAPPEN. IT USED TO
BE YOU'D BRING THEM TO THE POLICE STATION, TALK TO THE YOUNG -- THE
YOUTH, WRITE A FAMILY COURT APPEARANCE TICKET AND OUT THE DOOR THEY
WOULD GO. BUT NOW WHEN POLICE ARE STARTING TO TAKE THE YOUTH HOME,
THEY CAN'T FIND PARENTS AT HOME, THEY HAVE AN OLDER SISTER AT HOME AND
SOMETIMES THEY'VE SEEN THE DEPLORABLE CONDITIONS AND I KNOW IT'S
HAPPENED WHERE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES IS NOW GETTING
INVOLVED BECAUSE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS NOW GOING TO THE HOME TO MAKE
SURE SOMEBODY IS THERE TO DROP OFF THIS YOUTH. AGAIN, UNINTENDED
CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN -- WHEN WE CREATE THESE LAWS. I'LL
BE VOTING NO STILL. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MR. ANGELINO IN THE NEGATIVE.
MS. LUNSFORD TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.
MS. LUNSFORD: I THINK THIS BILL IS YET ANOTHER
EXAMPLE OF A TIME WHEN CERTAIN PEOPLE ARE ANGRY AT THE CONSTITUTION,
NOT THE BILL-IN-CHIEF. BECAUSE, CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS EXIST, WHETHER WE
LIKE THEM OR NOT; WHETHER THEY STAND IN THE WAY OF JUSTICE OR NOT,
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
WHICH SOMETIMES, THEY DO. THE CONSTITUTION EXISTS IF YOU'RE A MINOR,
IT EXISTS IF YOU ARE AN UNDOCUMENTED PERSON, IT EXISTS IN RURAL
COMMUNITIES, IN CITIES, WHETHER THERE'S CELL PHONE SERVICE OR NOT.
NOTHING IN THIS BILL CONFERS NEW RIGHTS. IT SIMPLY ENSURES THAT A MINOR,
WHO CANNOT CONSENT TO VIRTUALLY ANYTHING IN A LEGAL CONTEXT, IS AWARE
OF WHAT THEIR RIGHTS ARE UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. AND THAT'S GONNA SLOW
THINGS DOWN, BUT MAYBE WE SHOULD BE SLOWING THINGS DOWN. BECAUSE
I THINK IF ANY ONE OF US HAD OUR KID QUESTIONED BY THE POLICE, WE'D
WANT THEM TO CALL US FIRST. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I DON'T THINK MY
SON WOULD DO WELL IN THAT SCENARIO. I HAVE PRACTICED IN YOUTH COURT,
I'VE PRACTICED WITH OUR TEEN COURTS. TEENS AREN'T THE BEST ADVOCATES FOR
THEMSELVES ALL THE TIME, AND I'D HATE TO SEE A KID HAVE THEIR LIFE RUINED
SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEIR RIGHTS WERE. SO, I
COMMEND THE SPONSOR. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
MS. LUNSFORD IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.
(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)
THE BILL IS PASSED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, IF WE
COULD NOW GO TO PAGE 3 AND TAKE UP OUR RESOLUTIONS.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: RESOLUTIONS, PAGE
3, THE CLERK WILL READ.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 584, MR.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
SAYEGH.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 25, 2025, AS JORDANIAN-AMERICAN
HERITAGE DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE 79TH
ANNIVERSARY OF THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN'S INDEPENDENCE.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU. MR.
SAYEGH ON THE BILL. CAN WE HAVE QUIET, PLEASE?
MR. SAYEGH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM
SPEAKER.
I RISE TODAY TO PRESENT A RESOLUTION HONORING THE
PROFOUND CONTRIBUTIONS OF JORDANIAN-AMERICANS TO OUR GREAT STATE OF
NEW YORK. AND TO RECOGNIZE MAY 25, 2025 AS JORDANIAN-AMERICAN
HERITAGE DAY IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE 79TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE
HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN'S INDEPENDENCE.
JORDAN IS A CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY UNDER HIS
MAJESTY KING ABDULLAH II AND QUEEN NOOR RANIA, AND JORDAN IS A
NATION OF REMARKABLE GLOBAL SIGNIFICANCE. IN THE HEART OF THE MIDDLE
EAST, IT IS NOT ONLY VITAL, STRATEGIC AND AN ECONOMIC PARTNER OF THE
UNITED STATES, BUT ALSO LAND RICH WITH ANCIENT HISTORY AND A CULTURAL
HERITAGE. JORDANIAN-AMERICANS BASICALLY ARRIVED IN THE USA IN THE
1930'S, AND I MYSELF, REPRESENTING THE CITY OF YONKERS, NEW YORK,
WITNESSED THE FIRST WAVE OF JORDANIAN-AMERICANS IN THE MID-1950'S. I
CAME AS AN IMMIGRANT TO YONKERS IN 1957 FROM JORDAN AS A YOUNG
CHILD AND REALLY CAME ALONG WITH MY FAMILY, ACHIEVING THE AMERICAN
DREAM. AND JORDANIANS HAVE BEEN VERY INSTRUMENTAL AND ACTIVE IN ALL
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
FIELDS OF SOCIETY AND BRINGING -- BRINGING ABOUT REMARKABLE RESULTS.
AND I PRAISE JORDAN'S ROLE AS THE ONLY STABLE ENTITY THAT HAS BEEN A SAFE
HAVEN FOR MANY IN THE MIDDLE EAST THROUGH ITS CONSTITUTIONAL
PROTECTIONS. SO, TODAY I'M VERY PROUD AS A JORDANIAN-AMERICAN TO
RECOGNIZE AND HONOR JORDAN INDEPENDENCE. THANK YOU.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.
ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING
AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 585, MR.
JONES.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 25, 2025, AS MISSING CHILDREN'S DAY IN
THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 586, MS.
LUNSFORD.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 2025, AS MELANOMA AWARENESS MONTH
IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 587, MS.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
LUPARDO.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2025, AS DAIRY MONTH IN THE STATE OF
NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 588, MR. P.
CARROLL.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM AUGUST 16, 2025, AS MODEL AVIATION DAY IN
THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 589, MS.
ROSENTHAL.
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 25-31, 2025, AS EPIDERMOLYSIS
BULLOSA AWARENESS WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, MORE COMMONLY
KNOWN AS BUTTERFLY CHILDREN AWARENESS WEEK.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS
ADOPTED.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
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NYS ASSEMBLY MAY 27, 2025
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, DO YOU
HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WE DO HAVE A PIECE
OF HOUSEKEEPING.
ON A MOTION BY MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, PAGE 10,
CALENDAR NO. 21, BILL NO. A03682. THE AMENDMENTS ARE RECEIVED AND
ADOPTED.
WE HAVE A NUMBER OF RESOLUTIONS BEFORE THE HOUSE.
WITHOUT OBJECTION, THESE RESOLUTIONS WILL BE TAKEN UP TOGETHER.
ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING
AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.
(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS NOS. 591-599
WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.)
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.
MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, I NOW
MOVE THAT THE ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT
11:00 A.M., WEDNESDAY, MAY THE 28TH, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.
ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON MOTION BY MRS.
PEOPLES-STOKES, THE HOUSE STANDS ADJOURNED.
(WHEREUPON, AT 6:02 P.M., THE HOUSE STOOD ADJOURNED
UNTIL WEDNESDAY, MAY THE 28TH AT 11:00 A.M., THAT BEING A SESSION
DAY.)
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