WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2025                                                                        11:12 A.M.



                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE HOUSE WILL

                    COME TO ORDER.

                                 GOOD MORNING, COLLEAGUES.  TODAY IS THE DAY.

                                 IN THE ABSENCE OF CLERGY, LET US PAUSE FOR A MOMENT OF

                    SILENCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

                                 VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF

                    ALLEGIANCE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER LED VISITORS AND

                    MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

                                 A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

                    JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MAY 6TH.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                          1



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, I MOVE

                    TO DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF TUESDAY, MAY

                    THE 6TH AND THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WITHOUT OBJECTION,

                    SO ORDERED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU.

                                 I'D LIKE TO SHARE A QUOTE FOR TODAY.  THIS ONE COMES

                    FROM HENRY FORD.  MOST OF US HAVE HEARD THAT NAME BEFORE.  HE'S AN

                    AMERICAN INDUSTRIALIST AND BUSINESSMAN, AND THE FOUNDER OF THE FORD

                    MOTOR COMPANY.  HE IS CREDITED AS A PIONEER IN MAKING AUTOMOBILES

                    AFFORDABLE FOR THE MIDDLE-CLASS AMERICANS.  HIS WORDS FOR US TODAY:

                    "COMING TOGETHER IS A BEGINNING.  KEEPING TOGETHER IS PROGRESS.

                    WORKING TOGETHER IS SUCCESS."  SO LET US BEGIN OUR WORK TODAY.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESK A

                    MAIN CALENDAR.  BEFORE ANY HOUSEKEEPING OR INTRODUCTIONS, WE'RE

                    GONNA BE CALLING FOR THE FOLLOWING COMMITTEES TO MEET:  WAYS AND

                    MEANS, FOLLOWED BY RULES.  THESE COMMITTEES ARE GONNA PRODUCE AN

                    A-CALENDAR OF WHICH WE WILL TAKE UP TODAY.  WE'LL BE TAKING UP

                    CALENDAR RESOLUTIONS AT THE END OF THE DAY.  I WILL ANNOUNCE ANY FURTHER

                    FLOOR ACTIVITY AS WE PROCEED.

                                 WE EXPECT A VERY BUSY AND PRODUCTIVE DAY AHEAD OF

                    US.  I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES IN ADVANCE FOR THEIR CONTINUED

                    PATIENCE AND COOPERATION AS WE MOVE FORWARD TO ADOPT OUR STATE

                    BUDGET.

                                 WITH THAT AS A GENERAL OUTLINE, MADAM SPEAKER, LET US

                                          2



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    BEGIN BY CALLING THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S

                    CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WAYS AND MEANS

                    COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.  WAYS AND MEANS

                    COMMITTEE MEMBERS, PLEASE MEET CHAIR PRETLOW IN THE SPEAKER'S

                    CONFERENCE ROOM.

                                 WE HAVE NO HOUSEKEEPING, NO INTRODUCTIONS.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, IF WE

                    COULD STAND AT EASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON MRS. PEOPLES-

                    STOKES' MOTION, THE HOUSE STANDS AT EASE.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 11:15 A.M., THE HOUSE STOOD AT EASE.)



                                 *****************************

                                 (WHEREUPON, THE HOUSE CAME BACK TO ORDER AT 11:30

                    A.M.)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE HOUSE WILL

                    COME TO ORDER.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, WE DO

                    HAVE A FEW PEOPLE, A FEW OF OUR COLLEAGUES THAT WOULD LIKE TO MAKE

                    SOME INTRODUCTIONS, AND IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THAT WE WILL ADVANCE

                    THE A-CALENDAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                          3



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. BUTTENSCHON FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

                                 MS. BUTTENSCHON:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ON BEHALF OF ASSEMBLYMEMBER [SIC] VANEL,

                    ZINERMAN, OUR MAJORITY LEADER CRYSTAL PEOPLES-STOKES,

                    ASSEMBLYMEMBER MILLER AND I, I HAVE THE HONOR AND THE GREAT PLEASURE

                    TO INTRODUCE THE LUPUS AGENCIES THAT ARE HERE WITH TODAY FOR A LUPUS

                    AWARENESS EVENT.  THE LUPUS AND ALLIED DISEASE [SIC] ASSOCIATION

                    HAVE RUN THIS EVENT FOR THE LAST 17 YEARS BY THE AMAZING KATHLEEN

                    ARNTSEN THAT IS THE LEADER WITH HER HUSBAND DAVID.  THE LUPUS AND

                    ALLIED DISEASE [SIC] ASSOCIATION IS AN ALL-VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION THAT

                    RUNS OUT OF KATHLEEN'S HOME AND HAS DONATED OVER $2.9 MILLION TO

                    VARIOUS RESEARCH INSTITUTES ACROSS THE STATE.  THEY'RE ALSO HERE WITH

                    MANY OTHER INDIVIDUALS, WITH THE MASONIC MEDICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE

                    FROM UTICA, NEW YORK, AS WELL AS ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW YORK WITH

                    MANY THAT FACE THIS CHALLENGE AS WELL AS SUPPORT THOSE WITH THIS

                    CHALLENGE.

                                 I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING TO ALBANY TODAY,

                    AND YOUR CONTINUOUS DEDICATION AND SUPPORT FOR THOSE THAT FACE THIS

                    CHALLENGE OF LUPUS AND THE CONDUCTED RESEARCH THAT IS BEING DONE

                    DAILY.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON BEHALF OF MS.

                    BUTTENSCHON, MEMBERS VANEL, MILLER, ZINERMAN AND MAJORITY LEADER

                    CRYSTAL PEOPLES-STOKES AND THE SPEAKER, WE WELCOME YOU TO THE

                    CHAMBER, EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU.  THANK YOU SO VERY

                                          4



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MUCH FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO ADVOCATING FOR LUPUS AWARENESS AND

                    THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MR. BLANKENBUSH FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

                                 MR. BLANKENBUSH:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER, FOR AN INTRODUCTION.

                                 TODAY, IF YOU'VE NOTICED IN THE WELL AND AROUND THE

                    LOB, THAT YOU SAW MEMBERS OF THE FORT DRUM 10TH MOUNTAIN

                    DIVISION, AND THEY'RE HERE TODAY IN OUR ASSEMBLY.  THE GENERAL JUST

                    SPOKE AT THE SENATE.  THEY HAVE SEVERAL MEETINGS TODAY SCHEDULED WITH

                    LEADERSHIP.  AND JUST FOR -- FOR -- TO -- FOR EVERYBODY TO KNOW, THAT FORT

                    DRUM IS IN PARTNERSHIP TODAY WITH ASSEMBLYMAN GRAY, SENATOR

                    WALCZYK AND MYSELF.  MOST OF FORT DRUM IS IN THE 117TH DISTRICT,

                    WHICH IS MY DISTRICT.  BUT OBVIOUSLY, WE SHARE PARTS OF FORT DRUM WITH

                    EACH OTHER.

                                 AND JUST TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY, FORT DRUM,

                    JUST THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THE NORTH COUNTRY IS $2.55 BILLION FOR THE

                    LAST FISCAL YEAR.  THE OTHER THING ABOUT FORT DRUM, TOO, IS THEY USE A LOT

                    OF THE CIVILIAN -- OUR CIVILIAN FACILITIES.  FOR EXAMPLE, FORT DRUM

                    DOESN'T HAVE A HOSPITAL ON ITS BASE.  SO FORT DRUM SOLDIERS AND THEIR

                    FAMILIES USE -- USE OUR HOSPITALS.  THERE'S NO SCHOOL IN FORT DRUM.  SO

                    THERE'S A COUPLE HIGH SCHOOLS THAT SHARE THE FAMILIES WITH -- WITH FORT

                    DRUM.

                                 FORT DRUM IS A VERY COMMUNITY-ORIENTED FORT.  THE

                    MEMBERS SHARE IN DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE MEMORIAL DAY AND ALL THE

                                          5



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THINGS.  THE FORT DRUM BAND PARTICIPATES IN -- IN A LOT OF OUR PARADES

                    IN THE NORTH COUNTRY.  BUT IT IS A VERY COMMUNITY-ORIENTED -- WE HAVE

                    REALLY GREAT RELATIONSHIPS WITH FORT DRUM.  AND TODAY I HAVE -- ALONG

                    WITH ALL THE REST OF THEM I WANT TO INTRODUCE - SINCE I DON'T HAVE TIME TO

                    INTRODUCE EVERYBODY - WE HAVE BRIGADIER GENERAL - IF I DON'T MESS THIS

                    UP - BRIGADIER GENERAL JOSEPH ESCACON -- ESCANDON.  WE HAVE

                    COLONEL MATTHEW MAYER.  WE HAVE CHAPLAIN COLONEL JAMES LESTER.

                    AND WE HAVE SERGEANT MAJOR JOHN FOLGER.

                                 IF YOU'D PLEASE, WOULD YOU WELCOME THEM TO THE

                    ASSEMBLY CHAMBER?  AS AN EX-ARMY ENLISTED PERSON, I KNOW YOU

                    APPRECIATE THE ARMY AND I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOU INTRODUCE -- OR

                    WELCOME THEM TO THE CHAMBER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON BEHALF OF MR. BLANKENBUSH, ASSEMBLYMEMBER

                    GRAY, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WELCOME, GENERAL, COLONEL AND

                    ALL OF THE REST OF OUR VISITORS FROM THE ARMY BASE, THE FORT DRUM 10TH

                    MOUNTAIN DIVISION.  WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE TODAY, EXTEND THE

                    PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU.  ALWAYS HAPPY TO SEE OUR ARMY

                    MEMBERS HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH

                    FOR JOINING US TODAY.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN

                    INTRODUCTION.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  IF YOU WOULD ALLOW ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO -- I SHOULD GIVE

                                          6



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    YOU THE OPPORTUNITY, RATHER, TO WELCOME OUR FORMER COLLEAGUE, ONCE A

                    COLLEAGUE, ALWAYS A COLLEAGUE, PHIL GOLDFEDER TO OUR CHAMBERS TODAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON BEHALF OF THE

                    MAJORITY LEADER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WELCOME, PHIL.

                    WELCOME BACK.  WE SEE YOU VERY OFTEN, BUT IT'S ALWAYS GLAD TO SEE YOU

                    IN THE CHAMBER AS AN EXCEPTIONAL, EXCEPTIONAL MEMBER.  I EXTEND TO

                    YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR, WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU IN OUR

                    HALLS ALWAYS.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US AGAIN TODAY.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER,

                    MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR DESK A MAIN -- A-CALENDAR, AND I WOULD LIKE TO

                    ADVANCE THAT A-CALENDAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON A MOTION BY

                    MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

                                 MEMBERS, WE'RE GETTING READY TO BE ON DEBATE.  IF

                    EVERYONE COULD TAKE THEIR SEATS OR LEAVE IF YOU'RE LEAVING, THAT WOULD

                    BE AWESOME.

                                 PAGE 3, RULES REPORT 179, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03005-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 179, BUDGET BILL.  AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 887 OF THE

                    LAWS OF 1983, AMENDING THE CORRECTION LAW RELATING TO THE

                    PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING OF CANDIDATES, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS

                    THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 428 OF THE LAWS OF 1999, AMENDING THE

                    EXECUTIVE LAW AND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW RELATING TO EXPANDING

                                          7



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE GEOGRAPHIC AREA OF EMPLOYMENT OF CERTAIN POLICE OFFICERS, IN

                    RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF SUCH CHAPTER; TO AMEND CHAPTER

                    886 OF THE LAWS OF 1972, AMENDING THE CORRECTION LAW AND THE PENAL

                    LAW RELATING TO PRISONER FURLOUGHS IN CERTAIN CASES AND THE CRIME OF

                    ABSCONDING THEREFROM, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO

                    AMEND CHAPTER 261 OF THE LAWS OF 1987, AMENDING CHAPTERS 50, 53

                    AND 54 OF THE LAWS OF 1987, THE CORRECTION LAW, THE PENAL LAW AND

                    OTHER CHAPTERS AND LAWS RELATING TO CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, IN RELATION TO

                    THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 339 OF THE LAWS OF 1972,

                    AMENDING THE CORRECTION LAW AND THE PENAL LAW RELATING TO INMATE

                    WORK RELEASE, FURLOUGH AND LEAVE, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS

                    THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 60 OF THE LAWS OF 1994 RELATING TO CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS WHICH IMPACT UPON EXPENDITURE OF CERTAIN APPROPRIATIONS

                    MADE BY CHAPTER 50 OF THE LAWS OF 1994 ENACTING THE STATE

                    OPERATIONS BUDGET, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 55 OF THE LAWS OF 1992, AMENDING THE TAX LAW AND OTHER

                    LAWS RELATING TO TAXES, SURCHARGES, FEES AND FUNDING, IN RELATION TO

                    EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH CHAPTER; TO

                    AMEND CHAPTER 907 OF THE LAWS OF 1984, AMENDING THE CORRECTION

                    LAW, THE NEW YORK CITY CRIMINAL COURT ACT AND THE EXECUTIVE LAW

                    RELATING TO PRISON AND JAIL HOUSING AND ALTERNATIVES TO DETENTION AND

                    INCARCERATION PROGRAMS, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF

                    CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH CHAPTER; TO AMEND CHAPTER 166 OF THE LAWS

                    OF 1991, AMENDING THE TAX LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO TAXES, IN

                    RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH

                                          8



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CHAPTER; TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF THE MANDATORY SURCHARGE AND VICTIM

                    ASSISTANCE FEE; TO AMEND CHAPTER 713 OF THE LAWS OF 1988, AMENDING

                    THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW RELATING TO THE IGNITION INTERLOCK DEVICE

                    PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION THEREOF; TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 435 OF THE LAWS OF 1997, AMENDING THE MILITARY LAW AND

                    OTHER LAWS RELATING TO VARIOUS PROVISIONS, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE

                    EXPIRATION DATE OF THE MERIT PROVISIONS OF THE CORRECTION LAW AND THE

                    PENAL LAW OF SUCH CHAPTER; TO AMEND CHAPTER 412 OF THE LAWS OF

                    1999, AMENDING THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND RULES AND THE COURT OF

                    CLAIMS ACT RELATING TO PRISONER LITIGATION REFORM, IN RELATION TO

                    EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF THE INMATE FILING FEE PROVISIONS OF THE

                    CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND RULES AND GENERAL FILING FEE PROVISION AND

                    INMATE PROPERTY CLAIMS EXHAUSTION REQUIREMENT OF THE COURT OF CLAIMS

                    ACT OF SUCH CHAPTER; TO AMEND CHAPTER 222 OF THE LAWS OF 1994

                    CONSTITUTING THE FAMILY PROTECTION AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

                    INTERVENTION ACT OF 1994, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF

                    CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW REQUIRING THE ARREST

                    OF CERTAIN PERSONS ENGAGED IN FAMILY VIOLENCE; TO AMEND CHAPTER 505

                    OF THE LAWS OF 1985, AMENDING THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW RELATING

                    TO THE USE OF CLOSED-CIRCUIT TELEVISION AND OTHER PROTECTIVE MEASURES

                    FOR CERTAIN CHILD WITNESSES, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF

                    THE PROVISIONS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 3 OF THE LAWS OF 1995,

                    ENACTING THE SENTENCING REFORM ACT OF 1995, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING

                    THE EXPIRATION OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH CHAPTER; TO AMEND CHAPTER

                                          9



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    689 OF THE LAWS OF 1993 AMENDING THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW

                    RELATING TO ELECTRONIC COURT APPEARANCE IN CERTAIN COUNTIES, IN RELATION

                    TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 688 OF THE LAWS

                    OF 2003, AMENDING THE EXECUTIVE LAW RELATING TO ENACTING THE

                    INTERSTATE COMPACT FOR ADULT OFFENDER SUPERVISION, IN RELATION TO THE

                    EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 56 OF THE LAWS OF 2009,

                    AMENDING THE CORRECTION LAW RELATING TO LIMITING THE CLOSING OF

                    CERTAIN CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, PROVIDING FOR THE CUSTODY BY THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES OF INMATES SERVING DEFINITE

                    SENTENCES, PROVIDING FOR CUSTODY OF FEDERAL PRISONERS AND REQUIRING THE

                    CLOSING OF CERTAIN CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS

                    OF SUCH CHAPTER; TO AMEND CHAPTER 152 OF THE LAWS OF 2001 AMENDING

                    THE MILITARY LAW RELATING TO MILITARY FUNDS OF THE ORGANIZED MILITIA, IN

                    RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 554 OF THE

                    LAWS OF 1986, AMENDING THE CORRECTION LAW AND THE PENAL LAW

                    RELATING TO PROVIDING FOR COMMUNITY TREATMENT FACILITIES AND

                    ESTABLISHING THE CRIME OF ABSCONDING FROM THE COMMUNITY TREATMENT

                    FACILITY, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER

                    55 OF THE LAWS OF 2018, AMENDING THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW

                    RELATING TO THE PRE-CRIMINAL PROCEEDING SETTLEMENTS IN THE CITY OF NEW

                    YORK, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART A); INTENTIONALLY

                    OMITTED (PART B); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS FOR CERTAIN POSITIONS AS A CORRECTION OFFICER; TO

                    AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    MANDATORY RETIREMENT FOR CERTAIN MEMBERS OR OFFICERS OF THE STATE

                                         10



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    POLICE; TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO ELIGIBILITY FOR

                    APPOINTMENT AS A SWORN MEMBER OF THE STATE POLICE; AND TO AMEND THE

                    CIVIL SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE REQUIREMENTS FOR APPOINTMENT OF

                    POLICE OFFICERS (PART C); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART D); INTENTIONALLY

                    OMITTED (PART E); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART F); TO AMEND THE

                    EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO EXPANDING SUPPORT SERVICES FOR VICTIMS

                    OF FINANCIAL ABUSE AND HOMICIDE (PART G); TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW

                    AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO EXPANDING PROTECTIONS AND

                    SERVICES TO SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT (PART H); TO AMEND THE SOCIAL

                    SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO PUBLIC ASSISTANCE FOR SURVIVORS OF GENDER-

                    BASED VIOLENCE; AND TO REPEAL SUBDIVISION 4 OF SECTION 349-A OF THE

                    SOCIAL SERVICES LAW RELATING THERETO (PART I); TO AMEND THE STATE

                    FINANCE LAW AND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO A MODEL GENDER-

                    BASED VIOLENCE AND THE WORKPLACE POLICY (PART J); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED

                    (PART K); TO AMEND THE PENAL LAW, IN RELATION TO ARTIFICIAL

                    INTELLIGENCE-GENERATED CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE MATERIAL (PART L);

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART M); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART N);

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART O); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART P); TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 396 OF THE LAWS OF 2010 AMENDING THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE

                    CONTROL LAW RELATING TO LIQUIDATOR'S PERMITS AND TEMPORARY RETAIL

                    PERMITS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART Q); TO AMEND THE

                    PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO THE BONDING LIMIT OF THE NEW

                    YORK CITY TRANSITIONAL FINANCE AUTHORITY (PART R); TO AMEND THE REAL

                    PROPERTY TAX LAW AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW

                    YORK, IN RELATION TO THE INDUSTRIAL AND COMMERCIAL ABATEMENT

                                         11



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PROGRAM (PART S); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART T); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED

                    (PART U); TO AMEND THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE

                    WAIVER OF CERTAIN STATE CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATION FEES; AND TO AMEND

                    PART EE OF CHAPTER 55 OF THE LAWS OF 2023, AMENDING THE CIVIL

                    SERVICE LAW RELATING TO WAIVING STATE CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATION FEES

                    BETWEEN JULY 1, 2023 AND DECEMBER 31, 2025, IN RELATION TO THE

                    EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART V); TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR AN ALTERNATE PAYMENT ELECTION FOR CERTAIN

                    EMPLOYEES; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH

                    LAW RELATING THERETO (PART W); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART X); TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 60 OF THE LAWS OF 2015, CONSTITUTING THE INFRASTRUCTURE

                    INVESTMENT ACT, IN RELATION TO CONSTRUCTION MANAGER AS CONSTRUCTOR

                    CONTRACTS (PART Y); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART Z); TO AMEND THE

                    WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION TO MEDICAL PROVIDERS ENTITLED

                    TO RENDER EMERGENCY CARE AND TREATMENT IN CASES OF A WORKERS'

                    COMPENSATION INJURY (PART AA); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART BB); TO

                    AMEND THE WORKERS' COMPENSATION LAW, IN RELATION TO TEMPORARY

                    PAYMENT OF COMPENSATION FOR MEDICAL TREATMENT AND CARE (PART CC);

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART DD); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART EE);

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART FF); TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO ADDRESSING ACCOUNTABILITY WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    CORRECTIONS AND COMMUNITY SUPERVISION (PART GG); TO AMEND THE

                    CORRECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO THE FUNCTIONS, POWERS AND DUTIES OF THE

                    STATE COMMISSION OF CORRECTION (PART HH); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART

                    II); TO AMEND CHAPTER 729 OF THE LAWS OF 2023, CONSTITUTING THE NEW

                                         12



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    YORK STATE COMMUNITY COMMISSION ON REPARATIONS REMEDIES, IN

                    RELATION TO EXTENDING THE TIME THE NEW YORK STATE COMMUNITY

                    COMMISSION ON REPARATIONS REMEDIES HAS TO SUBMIT A WRITTEN REPORT

                    OF ITS FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE LEGISLATURE AND THE

                    GOVERNOR (PART JJ); ENACTING THE "OAK ORCHARD WASTEWATER PROJECT

                    DESIGN-BUILD ACT"; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS

                    UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF (PART KK); TO AMEND THE JUDICIARY LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF ALLOWANCE THAT TRIAL AND GRAND

                    JURORS ARE ENTITLED TO IN EACH COURT OF THE UNIFIED COURT SYSTEM (PART

                    LL); TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING THE NEW

                    YORK STATE OFFICE OF GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING THERETO (PART MM); TO

                    AMEND THE NEW YORK CITY CIVIL COURT ACT, IN RELATION TO ADDITIONAL

                    JUDGES IN THE CIVIL COURT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK; AND TO AMEND THE

                    COURT OF CLAIMS ACT, IN RELATION TO INCREASING THE NUMBER OF JUDGES OF

                    THE COURT OF CLAIMS (PART NN); TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW AND THE

                    STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING; AND TO

                    REPEAL SECTION 11 OF PART ZZZ OF CHAPTER 58 OF THE LAWS OF 2020

                    AMENDING THE ELECTION LAW RELATING TO PUBLIC FINANCING FOR STATE

                    OFFICE; AMENDING THE STATE FINANCE LAW RELATING TO ESTABLISHING THE

                    NEW YORK STATE CAMPAIGN FINANCE FUND; AND AMENDING THE TAX LAW

                    RELATING TO ESTABLISHING THE NYS CAMPAIGN FINANCE FUND CHECK-OFF,

                    RELATING TO THE SEVERABILITY OF THE PROVISIONS THEREOF (PART OO); TO

                    AMEND THE LEGISLATIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO DELAYING IMPLEMENTING

                    CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS ON OUTSIDE EARNED INCOME BY MEMBERS OF THE

                                         13



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    LEGISLATURE UNTIL JANUARY 1, 2027 (PART PP); TO AMEND THE ELECTION

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THAT CANDIDATES FOR THE OFFICES OF GOVERNOR

                    AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ARE DESIGNATED AND VOTED ON JOINTLY (PART QQ);

                    TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO CIVIL ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS

                    INITIATED BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (PART RR); TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT

                    AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE RESTORATION OF 20 -YEAR

                    SERVICE RETIREMENT FOR NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICERS (PART SS); TO

                    AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    ESTABLISHING A 25-YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN FOR FIREFIGHTERS EMPLOYED BY THE

                    DIVISION OF MILITARY AND NAVAL AFFAIRS (PART TT); TO AMEND THE

                    RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO REMOVING ELIGIBILITY

                    OR RECEIPT OF PRIMARY SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY BENEFITS AS A CONDITION

                    FOR ORDINARY DISABILITY RETIREMENT FOR CERTAIN MEMBERS (PART UU); TO

                    AMEND PART HH OF CHAPTER 56 OF THE LAWS OF 2022 AMENDING THE

                    RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW RELATING TO WAIVING APPROVAL AND

                    INCOME LIMITATIONS ON RETIREES EMPLOYED IN SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND BOARD

                    OF COOPERATIVE EDUCATIONAL SERVICES, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS

                    THEREOF (PART VV); TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, THE

                    EXECUTIVE LAW AND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO VIRTUAL

                    APPEARANCES IN CERTAIN CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS; TO REPEAL CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS OF THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW RELATING THERETO; AND

                    PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF

                    (PART WW); TO AMEND THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW

                    YORK, IN RELATION TO PROMOTIONS OF POLICE DETECTIVES, SERGEANTS, AND

                    LIEUTENANTS FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES (PART XX); TO AMEND THE

                                         14



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING

                    ALTERNATIVE 20- AND 25-YEAR PLANS FOR CERTAIN OFFICERS OF STATE LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT (PART YY); TO AMEND THE CORRECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    LOWERING THE MINIMUM HIRING AGE FOR CORRECTION OFFICERS (PART ZZ); TO

                    AMEND CHAPTER 141 OF THE LAWS OF 1994, AMENDING THE LEGISLATIVE

                    LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW RELATING TO THE OPERATION AND

                    ADMINISTRATION OF THE LEGISLATURE, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING SUCH

                    PROVISIONS (PART AAA); AND IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE DEPARTMENT

                    OF CORRECTIONS AND COMMUNITY SUPERVISION TO CLOSE UP TO THREE

                    CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES IN THE 2025-2026 STATE FISCAL YEAR; AND PROVIDING

                    FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF (PART BBB).

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  GOVERNOR'S

                    MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.  THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                 THE CLERK:  I HEREBY CERTIFY TO AN IMMEDIATE VOTE.

                    KATHY HOCHUL, GOVERNOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  AN EXPLANATION HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, MADAM SPEAKER.  AFTER MANY

                    WEEKS OF HARD WORK AND NEARLY AS MANY EXTENDERS, TODAY WE BEGIN THE

                    PROCESS OF ADOPTING THE BUDGET FOR STATE FISCAL YEAR '25-'26.  THE INPUT

                    OF OUR MEMBERS HAS GUIDED THE DISCUSSIONS THAT HAVE LED TO THIS

                    LEGISLATION.  I WOULD LIKE TO EXTEND MY GRATITUDE TO THE MANY

                    INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE HELPED US GET TO THIS POINT.  ON BEHALF OF THE

                    SPEAKER AND MYSELF, I THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AND

                                         15



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CONTRIBUTIONS THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS.

                                 WHILE NUMBERS ARE STILL BEING FINALIZED, THE ENACTED

                    BUDGET IS EXPECTED TO AUTHORIZE AROUND $254 BILLION IN SPENDING,

                    $2 BILLION OVER THE EXECUTIVE'S PROPOSAL.  THE BUDGET AGREEMENT THAT IS

                    TAKING SHAPE INCLUDES A PACKAGE OF REVENUE PROPOSALS THAT WILL SAVE

                    NEW YORK STATE TAXPAYERS A TOTAL OF $2.7 BILLION IN FISCAL YEAR '25-'26,

                    AND $1.7 BILLION IN FISCAL YEAR '26-'27.  IT IS IMPORTANT -- IT IS AN

                    IMPORTANT STEP FORWARD TO PROVIDING THE PEOPLE THAT WE ALL REPRESENT

                    SOME RELIEF IN AN OTHERWISE TURBULENT ECONOMIC CLIMATE.

                                 SOME OF THE MAJOR TAX RELIEF PROVISIONS CONTAINED IN

                    THE OVERALL BUDGET FRAMEWORK INCLUDE PROVIDING A ONE-TIME INFLATION

                    REFUND, REDUCING TAX RATES FOR WORKING AND MIDDLE-CLASS FAMILIES, AND

                    ENHANCING THE EMPIRE STATE CHILD CREDIT.  THROUGH THESE PROPOSALS,

                    THE LEGISLATURE DEMONSTRATES OUR CONTINUED COMMITMENT TO ADDRESSING

                    COST-OF-LIVING CONCERNS THAT HAVE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED MANY IN OUR

                    COMMUNITIES.

                                 THIS BUDGET PROVIDES $37.1 BILLION IN GENERAL SUPPORT

                    FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, WHICH IS AN INCREASE OF $1.7 BILLION OVER THE PRIOR

                    FISCAL YEAR.  IT INCLUDES CHANGES TO IMPROVE THE FOUNDATION AID

                    FORMULA, UPDATING METRICS, AS WELL AS GUARANTEEING A MINIMUM 2

                    PERCENT ANNUAL INCREASE FOR OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS.  THE BUDGET ALSO

                    INCLUDES SUPPORT FOR UNIVERSAL SCHOOL MEALS FOR ALL STUDENTS.  THE

                    BUDGET PROVIDES FOR FREE TUITION AT SUNY AND CUNY SCHOOLS FOR

                    INDIVIDUALS PURSUING ASSOCIATE'S DEGREES IN HIGH-DEMAND FIELDS.

                    ADDITIONAL OPERATING AND CAPITAL INVESTMENTS ARE ALSO INCLUDED FOR

                                         16



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.

                                 IN HEALTHCARE, THE BUDGET EXPANDS SUPPORT FOR

                    HOSPITALS AND NURSING HOMES BY PROVIDING INCREASED RATES AND

                    INCREASED -- INCREASES THE FUNDS FOR FEDERALLY-QUALIFIED HEALTH CLINICS.

                    THE BUDGET PROVIDES $1.3 BILLION IN MULTI-YEAR SUPPORT FOR THE SAFETY

                    NET HOSPITAL TRANSPORTATION PROGRAM, AND AN ADDITIONAL $800 MILLION

                    FOR DISTRESSED AND SAFETY NET HOSPITALS.

                                 FOR YEARS, BUSINESSES AND WORKERS ALIKE HAVE

                    CONTINUED TO FEEL THE LASTING IMPRINT -- IMPACT OF THE PANDEMIC THROUGH

                    THE STAGNANT UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BENEFITS AND RISING

                    UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RATES.  THIS BUDGET COMMITS UP TO $8 BILLION

                    TO SETTLE THE OUTSTANDING UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE DEBT, PROVIDING

                    RELIEF TO BUSINESSOWNERS AND UNEMPLOYED NEW YORKERS ACROSS THE

                    STATE.

                                 THIS BUDGET RESOLVES A $36 BILLION FUNDING GAP TO

                    SUPPORT A NEW FIVE-YEAR MTA CAPITAL PLAN.  IT ALSO INCLUDES AN

                    ADDITIONAL $1.1 BILLION FOR A $34.2 BILLION DEPARTMENT OF

                    TRANSPORTATION FIVE-YEAR CAPITAL PLAN, AS WELL AS INCREASES OF $50

                    MILLION FOR LOCAL ROADS AND $26 MILLION FOR UPSTATE TRANSIT.

                                 THE BUDGET INCLUDES $1 BILLION TO EXPAND AFFORDABLE

                    HOUSING IN NEW YORK CITY, AND AFTER MANY YEARS OF ADVOCATING, THE

                    HOUSING ACCESS VOUCHER PROGRAM WILL BE INCLUDED TO PROVIDE RENTAL

                    SUPPORT FOR THOSE WHO ARE HOMELESS OR AT RISK AT -- AT HOMELESSNESS

                    STATEWIDE.

                                 THIS BUDGET ALSO INCLUDES $1 BILLION IN FUNDING FOR

                                         17



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CLIMATE MITIGATION CAPITAL PROJECTS, INCLUDING INVESTMENTS TO THE

                    (INDISCERNIBLE), RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, MUNICIPALITIES AND TRANSITIONING

                    TO CLEAN ENERGY.

                                 IN ORDER TO KEEP UP WITH INCREASING ENROLLMENT IN THE

                    STATE'S CHILDCARE PROGRAM, THIS BUDGET INCLUDES AN ADDITIONAL $400

                    MILLION FOR A TOTAL OF $2.2 BILLION FOR CHILDCARE SUBSIDIES.

                                 FINALLY, WE RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF ENSURING

                    WAGES FOR HUMAN SERVICE WORKERS TO CONTINUE TO RISE, INCLUDING $262

                    MILLION TO PROVIDE A 2.6 PERCENT INFLATIONARY INCREASE.

                                 WITH THAT, MADAM SPEAKER, I WILL CONCLUDE MY

                    REMARKS.  I AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. RA.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M NOT FINISHED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  OH.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  TO THIS WE WOULD ENACT MAJOR

                    COMPONENTS OF LEGISLATION THAT ARE NECESSARY TO IMPLEMENT STATE FISCAL

                    YEAR '25-'26 BUDGET AS IT PERTAINS TO PUBLIC PROTECTION AND GENERAL

                    GOVERNMENT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL CHAIR

                    PRETLOW YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.  I'M GLAD WE'VE NOW

                                         18



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ARRIVED AT THIS POINT OF -- OF TAKING UP THE ACTUAL SUBSTANCE OF THE STATE

                    BUDGET.  THE PROCEDURAL PART OF THE PROCESS, AS -- AS THE GOVERNOR

                    MIGHT SAY.

                                 SO I JUST WANT TO START WITH YOU -- YOU GAVE AN

                    OVERVIEW OF THE OVERALL BUDGET AND MENTIONED A LOT OF NUMBERS AND A

                    LOT OF PROVISIONS.  SO, BROADLY SPEAKING, DO WE KNOW WHEN WE'RE

                    GOING TO SEE A DETAILED FINANCIAL PLAN THAT -- THAT DETAILS ALL OF THOSE

                    SPENDING NUMBERS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING FINALIZED.

                    AS YOU CAN SEE, SINCE WE'RE STARTING TO DO BUDGET BILLS, THAT THERE --

                    WE'RE VERY CLOSE TO COMING TO THAT FINAL FIGURE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND WE'RE ANTICIPATING THIS IS GONNA

                    COME IN AT AROUND $254 BILLION, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND I -- I BELIEVE YOU MENTIONED

                    THIS YESTERDAY, BUT PART OF THAT WILL BE THAT MONEY IS COMING OUT OF THE

                    RESERVES TO DEAL WITH THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE ISSUE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE ALL OF IT IS, BUT YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND DO YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER DETAIL

                    AS TO -- THAT, I BELIEVE, WOULD BE ABOUT $2 BILLION ABOVE WHAT THE

                    GOVERNOR PROPOSED IN HER EXECUTIVE -- HOW THAT $2 BILLION IS BEING

                    DIVVIED UP IN DIFFERENT AREAS OF THIS BUDGET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE -- THE

                    PAYMENT OF THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE?

                                 MR. RA:  NO, I'M -- I'M TALKING ABOUT JUST THE

                                         19



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    INCREASE IN SPENDING FROM THE EXECUTIVE PROPOSAL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S -- THAT'S REALLY TOO -- I COULD

                    LIST IT FOR YOU, BUT IT WILL TAKE ALL OF YOUR TIME.  IT'S DIVIDED UP IN ALL

                    AREAS OF THE BUDGET.  THERE'S NO ONE SPECIFIC PLACE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO THERE'S NO LARGE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. RA:  -- INCREASE IN ONE PARTICULAR AREA.  OKAY.

                                 SO WE WILL -- I -- I -- I WOULD SAY, THEN, AS WE GET INTO

                    THE APPROPRIATION BILLS SEE THAT IN VARIOUS AREAS OF THE BUDGET.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT AS WE GET THERE.

                                 I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE THE DETAILED FINANCIAL PLAN YET.

                    DO WE HAVE SENSE OF OUT-YEAR GAPS?  THE EXECUTIVE BUDGET PROPOSAL

                    HAD $27 BILLION IN OUT-YEAR GAPS.  DO WE HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHERE

                    THOSE NUMBERS ARE GOING TO BE ONCE THIS BUDGET IS ENACTED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S PART OF WHAT'S BEING

                    FINALIZED RIGHT NOW.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND THEN THERE HAS BEEN SOME TALK

                    WITH REGARD TO THIS BUDGET AND WHAT WE MAY BE LOOKING AT IN THE

                    MONTHS TO COME ONCE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FINISHES THEIR BUDGET

                    PROCESS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN OUT THERE IS

                    THAT THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR THE GOVERNOR TO BE GRANTED AUTHORITY TO

                    MAKE ADJUSTMENTS UP TO A CERTAIN AMOUNT.  IS THAT PROVISION GOING TO

                                         20



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    BE PART OF THE BUDGET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THAT'S STILL BEING FINALIZED,

                    BUT NOT IN THIS BILL.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO WE WILL LIKELY SEE THAT IN A -- IN A

                    LATER BILL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.

                                 OKAY, SO I'M GONNA MOVE ON TO THIS BILL IN PARTICULAR.

                    SO I ACTUALLY WANT TO START WITH REGARD TO, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF

                    PROVISIONS DEALING WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, CORRECTIONS, IN TERMS OF

                    HIRING AND -- AND RETIREMENT AND -- AND THAT TYPE OF STUFF.  SO, ONE OF

                    WHICH IS ALLOWING 18-YEAR-OLDS TO BECOME CORRECTIONS OFFICERS AFTER

                    THEY COMPLETE A CIVIL SERVICE TEST WHILE DOCCS IS BELOW 90 PERCENT

                    STAFFING CAPACITY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S -- THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  DO WE KNOW WHAT OUR CURRENT STAFFING

                    CAPACITY IS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT NOW WE'RE AT APPROXIMATELY

                    4,000 COS SHORT, AND THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO INCREASE THOSE NUMBERS.

                    THE GOVERNOR HAS REQUESTED THAT THE LEGISLATURE APPROVE, AND WE ARE

                    BY PASSING THESE BILLS, THE AUTHORITY TO HIRE 18-YEAR-OLDS TO WORK

                    ACTUALLY BACK OFFICE AND ONLY SUPERVISED IF THEY'RE DEALING WITH ANY OF

                    THE INCARCERATED.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE

                    18-YEAR-OLD OFFICERS WOULD, WHEN INTERACTING WITH -- WITH INCARCERATED

                                         21



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    INDIVIDUALS, WOULD HAVE TO BE SUPERVISED BY --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  -- A CO OVER 21?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, ABSOLUTELY.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO IS THERE GOING TO BE, THEN, ANY

                    TYPE OF ENHANCED OR EXTRA TRAINING FOR -- FOR THE 18-YEAR-OLDS?

                    OBVIOUSLY, THERE -- THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME CONCERN WITH REGARD TO,

                    YOU KNOW, PUTTING THESE INDIVIDUALS IN -- IN THESE SETTINGS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.  I THINK THEY'RE DOING THE

                    ADDITIONAL CLASSES IN THE ACADEMY.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  ONE -- THERE'S ALSO, MY

                    UNDERSTANDING, A PROVISION WITH REGARD TO ALLOWING OUT-OF-STATE

                    INDIVIDUALS TO BECOME CORRECTIONS OFFICERS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S ALSO BEING CONSIDERED

                    BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MANY OF OUR FACILITIES ARE LOCATED NEAR BORDERS OF

                    OTHER STATES AND THE POPULATION IS SUCH THAT IT WAS DIFFICULT TO FILL THE

                    POSITIONS THAT ARE NEEDED.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  DO WE -- DO YOU KNOW -- THE

                    LANGUAGE THAT WE'VE SEEN SEEMS TO INDICATE THAT FOR -- IT WOULD BE FOR

                    CORRECTION OFFICERS THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO MEET THE RESIDENCY

                    REQUIREMENTS.  WHAT HAPPENS IF THAT INDIVIDUAL BECOMES A CORRECTION

                    OFFICER, DOWN THE LINE TAKES THE TEST TO BECOME A SERGEANT TO GET

                    PROMOTED?  THE LANGUAGE SEEMS UNCLEAR WHETHER THAT PERSON WOULD BE

                    ELIGIBLE FOR THAT.  WOULD THAT PERSON HAVE TO MOVE INTO NEW YORK

                    STATE TO BE ABLE TO BECOME A SERGEANT OR -- OR A HIGHER OFFICER WITHIN A

                                         22



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CORRECTIONAL FACILITY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS ONLY APPLIES TO CORRECTION

                    OFFICERS.  SO THE QUESTION IS, IF THEY (INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --

                                 MR. RA:  IF THEY WERE TO -- IF THEY WERE TO APPLY --

                    TAKE THE TEST TO BECOME A SERGEANT, WOULD -- WOULD THEY NOT BE ELIGIBLE

                    IF THEY'RE OUT-OF-STATE?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE LIVING

                    IN THE STATE.

                                 MR. RA:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF THEY'RE IN A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY

                    THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE STATE RESIDENTS.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 SOME OF THE OTHER PROVISIONS WITH REGARD TO

                    CORRECTIONS, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED

                    ABOUT IN TERMS OF TRYING TO AID IN RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION OF

                    CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.  AS YOU MENTIONED, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, 4,000

                    MEMBERS THAT WE'RE -- THAT WE'RE DOWN.

                                 ONE -- ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S COME UP IN THE PAST,

                    AND I BELIEVE IT ACTUALLY PASSED UNANIMOUSLY LAST YEAR, WAS -- WAS THE

                    DEATH GAMBLE.  I KNOW WE -- WE HAVE THIS AGE, OUT-OF-STATE.  CAN YOU

                    EXPLAIN -- WELL, NUMBER ONE, NOTHING IN THAT REGARD WAS INCLUDED,

                    CORRECT?  BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR PREVIOUSLY VETOED IT AND SAID IT WAS

                    SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE DONE DURING THE CONTEXT OF THE BUDGET.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE BUDGET.

                                         23



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. RA:  DO YOU KNOW IF THAT WAS ANY CONVERSATION,

                    GIVEN THAT THE GOVERNOR'S REASON FOR VETOING WAS THAT SHE FELT IT SHOULD

                    BE A -- A BUDGET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF THERE WAS, I WAS NOT PART OF THAT

                    CONVERSATION.  I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.

                                 AND THEN WITH REGARD TO SOMETHING WE'RE DOING, WE

                    HAVE A 20-YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN FOR NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICERS IN --

                    IN -- IN THIS BUDGET.  THERE WAS A TREMENDOUS CONCERN EXPRESSED THAT

                    THIS WOULD BE -- WELL, WHILE IT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING I THINK MANY OF

                    US SUPPORT, THAT NOT INCLUDING CORRECTIONS OFFICERS OR DOING SOMETHING

                    SIMILAR FOR CORRECTION OFFICERS WOULD BE ANOTHER, BASICALLY, INCENTIVE

                    FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE CORRECTION OFFICERS NOW AND, PARTICULARLY, YOU

                    KNOW, AS YOU GET FURTHER DOWNSTATE, TO GO TO A MORE ATTRACTIVE POSITION

                    WITH THE NYPD.  SO WE'RE -- WE'RE NOT DOING ANY TYPE OF 20-YEAR

                    RETIREMENT FOR THE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS IN OUR STATE PRISONS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  NOW, ARE NEW YORK CITY CORRECTIONS

                    OFFICERS INCLUDED IN THIS LANGUAGE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.  I THINK THEY HAVE THEIR OWN

                    PENSION SYSTEM.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO IT'S JUST -- IT'S JUST FOR NYPD,

                    THEN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.  NEW YORK CITY HAS SEVERAL

                    SEPARATE PENSIONS SYSTEMS; THEY HAVE ONE FOR LIEUTENANTS AND

                                         24



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SERGEANTS, THEY HAVE ONE FOR PATROLMEN.  THEY HAVE -- THEY HAVE

                    SEVERAL.  ALL OF THEM, BY THE WAY, IN BAD SHAPE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.

                                 AND THEN THE DOCCS BODY-WORN CAMERA PROGRAM.

                    ALL THE CORRECTION OFFICERS, SECURITY SUPERVISORS AND CIVILIAN STAFF AS

                    REQUIRED BY THE CORRECTIONS COMMISSIONER WILL BE PROVIDED

                    BODY-WORN CAMERAS.  HOW DO YOU ENVISION DOCCS WILL ENSURE

                    COMPLIANCE WITH THIS POLICY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BODY-WORN CAMERAS ARE --

                    OBVIOUSLY, YOU HAVE THEM ON, AND THERE IS A LIGHT THAT SHOWS THAT THEY

                    ARE ACTUALLY OPERATING.  AND IF AN OFFICER IS SEEN WITHOUT THE CAMERA

                    THAT AFFIXES TO ONE'S CHEST, IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS THAT THEY'RE NOT IN

                    COMPLIANCE WITH THE REGULATION, AND WHOMEVER IS THE SUPERVISOR OF

                    THAT INDIVIDUAL SHOULD TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION.

                                 MR. RA:  AND I GUESS A LOT OF THIS IS GOING TO BE DONE

                    WITHIN, YOU KNOW, THE PARTICULAR FACILITIES.  BUT DO WE KNOW EXACTLY

                    HOW WE ARE TREATING CIVILIAN STAFF DIFFERENTLY FROM COS WITH REGARD TO

                    THE BODY-WORN CAMERA PROGRAM?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, FOR THE MOST PART, CIVILIAN

                    STAFF AREN'T ALLOWED WITHIN THE CONFINEMENT AREA.  THEY'RE IN THE -- IN

                    THE OFFICES.  BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE ADDRESSED IN THIS

                    PROPOSAL.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY COULD -- THE COMMISSIONER

                    WOULD HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DESIGNATE ANY INDIVIDUALS THAT HE OR

                                         25



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SHE DEEMS IT APPROPRIATE TO WEAR A BODY-WORN CAMERA.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.

                                 A -- A COUPLE OF OTHER ITEMS THAT ARE WITHIN THE PUBLIC

                    PROTECTION REALM.  OBVIOUSLY, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN A

                    OVERARCHING CONVERSATION IN THIS BUDGET PROCESS, AND -- AND I BELIEVE IS

                    ONE OF THE REASONS THAT IT'S -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE BASICALLY A WEEK INTO

                    MAY AND -- AND FINALLY GETTING TO THE -- THE WORK OF PASSING THIS BUDGET

                    -- WAS -- WAS DISCOVERY REFORM.  I KNOW THAT THIS IS OMITTED IN THIS BILL.

                    THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN OUT TALKING ABOUT THE VICTORY SHE ACHIEVED

                    WITH REGARD FOR DISCOVERY REFORM.  DO WE KNOW WHICH BILL AND WHEN

                    WE'LL SEE THESE PROVISIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  MR. RA, YOU'LL DISCOVER THAT THAT

                    BILL IS NOT IN THIS BILL AND THAT IT WILL PROBABLY BE IN A LATER BILL.

                                 MR. RA:  WE LOOK FORWARD TO DISCOVERING THE

                    DISCOVERY CHANGES IN A -- IN A LATER BILL.

                                 THERE IS A PROVISION THAT WOULD ADD TO THE EXECUTIVE

                    LAW TO ENSURE THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF LAW IS NOT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE

                    DOCUMENTS FROM OTHER STATE AGENCIES AS PART OF THE DISCOVERY PROCESS

                    IN CIVIL ENFORCEMENT ISSUE -- ACTIONS.  SO GIVEN THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE

                    DISCOVERY REFORM IN THIS BILL, WHY ARE WE ALLOWING THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    LAW TO NARROW ITS OWN DISCOVERY OBLIGATIONS WHEN OUR STATE

                    PROSECUTORS AREN'T BEING GIVEN THAT PRIVILEGE?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE -- WITH THE

                    ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE?

                                         26



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. RA:  YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  YEAH, THIS -- THIS CLARIFIES

                    THE AUTHORITY OF THE --OF THE -- ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THESE SITUATIONS.

                                 MR. RA:  I BELIEVE IT DOES PROVIDE SOME DISCRETION

                    THERE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEAH.

                                 MR. RA:  -- WITHIN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  SO I GUESS WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHEN WE SEE

                    THE DISCOVERY LANGUAGE WHETHER WE ARE, YOU KNOW, (INDISCERNIBLE) OR

                    -- OR GIVING SOME SIMILAR DISCRETION TO OUR -- OUR LOCAL PROSECUTORS.

                                 I THINK THE LAST THING WITH REGARD TO PUBLIC PROTECTION,

                    THE OFFICE OF GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION WAS ESTABLISHED IN DCJS AND

                    WE'RE MOVING FUNDING FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO DCJS.

                    WHAT'S THE REASON BEHIND ESTABLISHING THIS FUNDING NOW WITHIN DCJS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, WE JUST THOUGHT IT WOULD BE

                    MORE APPROPRIATE TO BE THERE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  DO WE -- DO WE ENVISION THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH CONTINUING TO PLAY A ROLE WITH REGARD TO THIS,

                    GIVEN -- YOU KNOW, I -- I THINK WE'RE ALL VERY AWARE THAT MENTAL HEALTH

                    IS A MAJOR CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO GUN VIOLENCE.  DO WE -- DO WE

                    ANTICIPATE THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH REMAINING TO HAVE A ROLE IN

                    CONJUNCTION WITH DCJS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I -- I'M PRETTY SURE THE DEPARTMENT

                    OF HEALTH WILL MAINTAIN SOME INVOLVEMENT IN -- IN THIS, ESPECIALLY IN

                                         27



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE MENTAL HEALTH AREAS.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 I AM GOING TO MOVE TO THE ENVIRONMENT.  SO THE

                    ENACTED BUDGET ESTABLISHES THE OAK ORCHARD WASTEWATER DESIGN-BUILD

                    [SIC] ACT, WHICH AUTHORIZES ONONDAGA COUNTY TO UTILIZE A

                    DESIGN-BUILD CONTRACT DELIVERY METHOD FOR MAKING REPAIRS,

                    RENOVATIONS AND RECONSTRUCTION AND OTHER TYPES OF WORK WITH REGARD TO

                    THE OAK ORCHARD WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT.  IS THE WORK ENVISIONED

                    HERE A CONSEQUENCE OF THE BROADER INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS OF MICRON?

                    AND IS THAT -- IS THAT COMPANY CONTINUING TO INVEST IN OPERATIONS IN THE

                    AREA AND UNDER OBLIGATIONS TO REMAIN IN THE AREA?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, MICRON IS DEFINITELY

                    CONTINUING TO INVEST THERE, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S IN THIS BILL.

                                 MR. RA:  ARE WE AWARE OF --

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M TOLD IT IS IN THE BILL.

                                 MR. RA:  SO FURTHER, DO WE KNOW, ARE THERE ENERGY

                    NEEDS THAT THAT FACILITY WILL NEED TO BE ADDRESSED GIVEN OUR LOOMING

                    GRID UNCERTAINTY AND THE HIGH ENERGY REQUIREMENTS OF THAT TYPE OF

                    OPERATION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M PRETTY SURE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS

                    -- WILL HAVE TO BE UPGRADED BECAUSE THAT FACILITY WILL REQUIRE MORE

                    RESOURCES THAN ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.

                                 I WANT TO SWITCH GEARS AGAIN WITH REGARD TO A COUPLE

                                         28



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OF THE CHANGES WITH REGARD TO CIVIL COURT, COURT OF CLAIMS.  WE HAVE

                    AN ADDITIONAL TEN NEW YORK CITY CIVIL COURT JUDGES AND FIVE

                    ADDITIONAL COURT OF CLAIMS JUDGES THAT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  -- ARE INCLUDED WITHIN THIS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  DO WE KNOW IF THE COURT OF CLAIMS, WILL

                    THOSE JUDGESHIPS BE SPREAD ACROSS THE STATE OR ARE THEY EARMARKED FOR

                    SPECIFIC DISTRICTS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'LL -- SINCE THEY'RE APPOINTED

                    BY THE GOVERNOR, THEY'D BE STATEWIDE.

                                 MR. RA:  ARE -- ARE -- BUT OFTENTIMES THESE

                    INDIVIDUALS WILL THEN SERVE WITHIN A PARTICULAR JUDICIAL DISTRICT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  DO WE -- DO WE KNOW IF WE'RE ANTICIPATING

                    THEM BEING ASSIGNED TO PARTICULAR AREAS OF THE STATE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M REALLY NOT SURE.  THAT'S UP TO

                    THE -- THE OFFICE OF COURT SERVICES [SIC].  THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WOULD DO,

                    WE'RE JUST AUTHORIZING THE NUMBER TO BE INCREASED.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND WITHIN, I -- I WOULD ASSUME,

                    PERHAPS THE LEGISLATURE AND JUDICIARY BUDGET, IS THERE GOING TO BE

                    ADDITIONAL FUNDING INCLUDED TO DEAL WITH THE FINANCIAL IMPACT, NOT JUST

                    THE SALARY OF THE ADDITIONAL JUDGES, BUT OBVIOUSLY WHEN YOU HAVE A

                    JUDGE, YOU MAY HAVE CAPITAL NEEDS IN TERMS OF COURTROOMS.  YOU -- YOU

                    NEED CLERKS, YOU NEED COURT OFFICERS, ALL -- ALL OF THOSE THINGS FOR

                                         29



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ADDITIONAL JUDGESHIPS.  IS THERE GOING TO BE ADDITIONAL FUNDING IN THE

                    LEGISLATURE AND JUDICIARY BUDGET FOR THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THAT BILL HAS NOT BEEN

                    INTRODUCED YET, AND WHEN IT IS INTRODUCED I'M PRETTY SURE -- I -- I KNOW

                    THAT THOSE ITEMS WILL BE ADDRESSED.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 THE OTHER THING THAT WE APPEAR TO BE MAKING MAJOR

                    CHANGES TO IN THIS BILL IS THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN MATCHING PROGRAM.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  SO LET ME START WITH REALLY ONE OF THE BASIC

                    PIECES OF THIS PROGRAM.  HOW DOES THIS BILL CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF A

                    MATCHABLE CONTRIBUTION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, CURRENTLY A MATCHABLE

                    CONTRIBUTION IS UP TO $250.  IF SOMEONE RECEIVES $250 OR LESS THEY'D GET

                    MATCHED, I THINK IT'S 8 TO 1 BY THE STATE.  IF THEY THEN RECEIVE CURRENTLY

                    $10 MORE THAN THAT, THE FIRST $200 BECOMES INELIGIBLE AND THE MONEY

                    HAS TO BE RETURNED.  WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT INCREASES THAT ADDITIONAL

                    AMOUNT THAT'S CONTRIBUTED TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO I THINK IT'S $1,050.  SO

                    THE FIRST $250 STILL REMAINS MATCHABLE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO THERE WOULD BE -- IF THE PERSON

                    GAVE -- YOU KNOW, IT HAS TO -- OBVIOUSLY THE ELIGIBILITY, I WOULD SAY,

                    RIGHT, REMAINS THE SAME.  IT'S GOTTA BE A RESIDENT OF THE DISTRICT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.  THAT DOESN'T CHANGE.

                                 MR. RA:  SO THE INDIVIDUAL THEN CAN GIVE UP TO

                    $1,050 WITHOUT RENDERING THE ORIGINAL $250 MATCHLESS.

                                         30



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEAH.

                                 MR. RA:  BUT THERE IS NO ADDITIONAL MONEY FROM, YOU

                    KNOW, THAT, I GUESS, EXTRA $800.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT MATCHED.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHERE

                    THAT WHERE THAT NUMBER 1050 COMES FROM?  BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S

                    -- IT'S NOT THE MAXIMUM DONATION, IT'S A -- IT'S --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT -- THAT NUMBER WAS

                    NEGOTIATED.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  I MEAN, I WOULD JUST SAY THIS IS MORE

                    OF A RHETORICAL QUESTION, BUT, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE DID A BILL A COUPLE

                    YEARS AGO WITH REGARD TO THIS, AND WHILE I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE PUBLIC

                    FINANCE PROGRAM AT ALL AND GIVING PUBLIC MONEY TO POLITICAL

                    CAMPAIGNS, IF YOU ASSUME THE ARGUMENT THAT -- THAT ITS PURPOSE IS TO

                    ENHANCE THE VALUE OF SMALL DONORS, THIS SEEMS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO --

                    TO THAT GOAL.

                                 ONE OF THE OTHER PIECES OF IT WAS WITH REGARD TO

                    ALLOWING A CARRYOVER OF FUNDS.  SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS CURRENTLY,

                    RIGHT, YOU GO THROUGH A CAMPAIGN CYCLE, YOU GET WHATEVER MONEY YOU

                    GET.  AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, RECTIFY ALL THE

                    NUMBERS WITH THE -- WITH THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS AND THE DIVISION THAT

                    -- THAT HANDLES THIS PROGRAM.  AND THE INTENT AT LEAST WAS THAT

                    EVERYTHING NEEDED TO BE ZEROED OUT, CLOSED OUT, NEW CAMPAIGN ACCOUNT

                                         31



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OPENED FOR THE NEXT ELECTION.  BUT NOW THIS WILL ALLOW UP TO $50,000 TO

                    BE CARRIED OVER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, THAT'S -- THAT IS THE NUMBER.

                                 MR. RA:  SO IF -- IF SOMEBODY, SAY, DOES THAT FROM

                    ONE ELECTION TO THE NEXT AND THEY CONTINUE TO RAISE AND -- AND MAYBE

                    THEY'RE NOT SPENDING THE MONEY, WOULD THAT COUNT?  YOU KNOW, TWO

                    YEARS FROM THEN, COULD THEY NOW CARRY OVER THE $50,000 THEY HAD FROM

                    THE PREVIOUS ELECTION AND THEN ANOTHER $50,000?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.  THAT -- THAT -- NO.

                                 MR. RA:  SO WOULD -- SO THEY CAN'T USE -- THEY WOULD

                    HAVE TO, I GUESS, KEEP IT AT $50,000 FROM ELECTION TO ELECTION.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE TO

                    CARRY OVER.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT

                    WE WOULD SEE IN ANOTHER BILL, BUT DO WE ANTICIPATE THE CHANGES THAT ARE

                    BEING MADE TO THE PROGRAM INCREASING THE COST OF THE PROGRAM, AND DO

                    WE -- DO WE ANTICIPATE A -- A LARGER APPROPRIATION FOR THE PROGRAM IN A

                    FUTURE BILL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT WASN'T PART OF THE DISCUSSION.

                    MY PERSONAL FEELING IS THAT WE INCREASE THE COST BECAUSE THERE ARE

                    PEOPLE THAT RECEIVE THE 250, THEY'RE NOW -- NOT HAVING TO BEING

                    REQUIRED TO GIVE IT BACK, SO THAT 8 TO 1 MATCH WILL REMAIN.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 AND ARE THERE ANY FURTHER CHANGES BEING MADE?  ONE

                    OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE ELECTIONS LAST YEAR

                                         32



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WAS THERE HAD BEEN, REALLY, GUIDANCE GIVEN TO THE CANDIDATES WITH

                    REGARD TO GIVING -- OR TRANSFERRING MONEY TO CONSTITUTED COMMITTEES,

                    AND THE GUIDANCE WAS REALLY THAT YOU COULDN'T DO THAT.  AND THEN AFTER

                    ELECTION DAY THERE WAS A POLICY THAT WAS ADOPTED BY THE PUBLIC

                    CAMPAIGN FINANCE BOARD THAT CHANGED THAT.  ARE WE MAKING ANY

                    STATUTORY CHANGES TO REFLECT THAT CHANGE IN POLICY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE ARE SOME CHANGES BEING

                    MADE, LIKE NOT HAVING TO CLOSE OUT A BANK ACCOUNT AND TRANSFER ALL THE

                    MONEY BACK TO -- TO THE STATE.  THERE ARE VARIOUS THINGS THAT WE'RE

                    TRYING TO MAKE THIS WORK, AND THAT'S ONE OF THEM.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND WITH REGARD TO THE CLOSING OF

                    THE BANK ACCOUNT, WHAT -- SO IF -- IF ONE OF US HASN'T CLOSED OUT OUR

                    ACCOUNT FROM -- FROM LAST YEAR, WOULD -- IS THIS JUST GOING FORWARD OR

                    WOULD WE NOT NOW HAVE TO DO THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS IS GOING FORWARD, I BELIEVE.

                    YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO DO IT NOW.  YEAH.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  MAKES THINGS A LITTLE EASIER FOR SOME

                    OF US.  I KNOW I HAVEN'T CLOSED OUT MINE OUT YET.  SO, THANK -- THANK

                    YOU.

                                 I -- I WANT TO GET INTO ONE OTHER TOPIC:  THE CHANGE

                    WITH REGARD TO THE REPARATIONS COMMISSION.  MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY

                    WERE ORIGINALLY REQUIRED TO ISSUE THEIR REPORT ONE YEAR FROM THEIR FIRST

                    MEETING.  THIS IS CHANGING IT TO 30 MONTHS FOLLOWING THEIR FIRST

                    MEETING?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                         33



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. RA:  AND WHAT -- DO YOU KNOW WHEN THEIR FIRST

                    MEETING WAS?  LIKE, WHEN DOES THIS END UP BEING THE DEADLINE FOR THIS

                    REPORT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S HAPPENED.  I'M

                    NOT AWARE.  I DON'T KNOW.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  HAS THE COMMISSION, YOU KNOW,

                    REQUESTED THAT THEY JUST NEED -- THEY'RE GONNA NEED MORE TIME TO DO

                    THIS REPORT?  DO WE KNOW WHERE THIS -- WHAT THE IMPETUS IS FOR THIS

                    CHANGE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M PRETTY SURE THE COMMISSION

                    SINCE THEY HAVE BEEN CONSTITUTED DETERMINED THAT THEY DO NEED EXTRA

                    TIME AND REQUESTED THE GOVERNOR/THE LEGISLATURE TO EXTEND THAT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 WORKERS' COMPENSATION.  SO, WE HAVE A PROVISION,

                    MEDICAL AND SURGICAL RESIDENTS OR FELLOWS THAT WOULD NOW BE ALLOWED

                    TO RENDER MEDICAL CARE TO THOSE PATIENTS TREATED BY WORKERS'

                    COMPENSATION, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  IS -- IS THIS BEING NECESSITATED BY A

                    SHORTAGE OF DOCTORS OR PHYSICIANS IN NEW YORK THAT CAN PROVIDE THIS

                    CARE, OR IS THAT WE HAVE DOCTORS BUT THEY'RE NOT TAKING ON PATIENTS THAT

                    ARE COVERED BY WORKERS' COMP?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, WE'RE TRYING TO HELP SPEED UP

                    THE TREATMENTS THAT PEOPLE REQUIRE, AND THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF DOCTORS

                    THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO DO THIS.

                                         34



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND WHAT OVERSIGHT WILL THE

                    WORKERS' COMPENSATION BOARD EXERCISE TO ENSURE THAT MEDICAL AND

                    SURGICAL RESIDENTS OR FELLOWS HAVE MET THEIR SUPERVISORY REQUIREMENTS

                    IN ORDER TO RENDER THIS CARE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I THINK THE SAME SUPERVISORY

                    FUNCTIONS THAT THEY HAVE NOW.

                                 MR. RA:  AND BECAUSE WORKERS' COMPENSATION CASES

                    OFTEN INVOLVE LEGAL AND FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS, ARE -- WILL MEASURES BE

                    TAKEN BY THE BOARD TO ENSURE THAT DECISIONS AND DOCUMENTATION OF

                    RESIDENTS AND FELLOWS IS GIVEN THE SAME LEGAL WEIGHT AS THOSE OF

                    FULLY-LICENSED PHYSICIANS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I WOULD IMAGINE SO.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.

                                 I THINK I ON -- I HAVE ONE OTHER ISSUE THAT I WANTED TO

                    ASK ABOUT WITH REGARD TO THE STATE WORKFORCE.

                                 THERE WAS A PROVISION IN THE EXECUTIVE BUDGET THAT

                    WOULD HAVE ALLOWED FOR THE AM -- AMOR -- AMORTIZATION OF UNFUNDED

                    ACCRUED LIABILITIES FOR NEW YORK CITY PENSION FUNDS.  I KNOW I -- YOU

                    KNOW, AS SOMEBODY WHO REPRESENTS A NEIGHBORING COUNTY IN NEW

                    YORK CITY, I HAVE A LOT OF CITY WORKERS, RETIRED CITY WORKERS WHO ARE

                    CONSTITUENTS AND I'VE HEARD FROM A LOT OF THEM WITH CONCERNS WITH

                    REGARD TO THIS.  SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE'RE OMITTING THAT FROM THIS

                    BILL, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  IS THAT -- DO WE BELIEVE THAT IS DEAD, OR IS IT

                                         35



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SOMETHING WE MAY SEE IN ONE OF THE FUTURE BILLS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S SOMETHING I BELIEVE WE'LL

                    SEE AT A LATER DATE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  I THINK THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. RA:  SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ALWAYS AN INTERESTING

                    BUDGET BILL.  ANY NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ISSUE AREAS ARE IMPLICATED BY IT.

                    I'D BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T SAY THAT.  NUMBER ONE, I'M HAPPY WE'RE FINALLY

                    TAKING UP BUDGET BILLS.  IT'S TAKEN A LONG TIME TO GET HERE.  THERE ARE

                    SOME GOOD THINGS IN THIS BILL WITH REGARD TO TRYING TO HELP ON THE LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT TIME, RETENTION AND RECRUITMENT.  I DO WANT TO REITERATE THE

                    CONCERN WITH REGARD TO OUR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.  THEY'VE IDENTIFIED THE

                    SOLUTIONS FOR US.  AND THIS IS TREATING THE SYMPTOMS AND NOT THE

                    DISEASE.  THEY HAVE TREMENDOUS CONCERNS FOR THEIR SAFETY IN OUR

                    PRISONS.  HALT HAS BEEN AN ISSUE THAT THEY'VE BROUGHT TO US

                    REPEATEDLY, WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.  AND THEIR OWN

                    RETIREMENT SYSTEM, THEY ARE CONCERNED THAT WHILE THEY ALREADY HAVE A

                    STAFFING CRISIS, NOW IT MAY BE EXACERBATED BECAUSE WE'RE GIVING AN

                    ENHANCED ABILITY TO RETIRE DOWN TO THE NYPD, WHICH I'M SUPPORTIVE OF,

                    BUT WE'RE NOT DOING THE SAME THING FOR THOSE OFFICERS.  SO IT'S JUST

                    ANOTHER THING THAT MAKES OTHER JOBS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT MORE

                    ATTRACTIVE TO -- TO THESE INDIVIDUALS THAN STAYING IN OUR -- IN OUR PRISONS.

                    SO THAT IS A TREMENDOUS CONCERN FOR THAT WORKFORCE AS WE NOT ONLY DO

                    THAT, BUT THEN ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY FOR THE GOVERNOR TO POTENTIALLY

                                         36



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CLOSE ANOTHER THREE PRISONS.  IT SEEMS LIKE OUR SOLUTION TO THE ISSUES

                    THAT THEY HAVE REPEATEDLY BROUGHT TO US IS, LET'S LET MORE PEOPLE OUT,

                    LET'S CLOSE PRISONS, INSTEAD OF ADDRESSING THEIR SAFETY.  INSTEAD OF

                    ADDRESSING THEIR BENEFITS.  INSTEAD OF MAKING IT A -- A SAFER AND MORE

                    ATTRACTIVE JOB FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE.  SO THAT -- THAT IS A TREMENDOUS

                    CONCERN.

                                 NOW, REAL QUICK I WOULD LIKE TO JUST GO BACK TO MY

                    ORIGINAL QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BUDGET AS A WHOLE.  ONE OF THE PROBLEMS

                    WHEN WE DO START TO TAKE UP THESE BILLS, AND HOPEFULLY WE'RE GONNA SEE

                    ALL OF THE REMAINING BILLS WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS OR SO.  BUT THAT

                    WE'RE STARTING TO ADOPT BUDGETS BILLS WITHOUT A FINANCIAL PLAN CONTINUES

                    TO BE A CONCERN TO ME.  WHAT DOES THAT TELL US?  YEAH, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF

                    A WONKY THING IF YOU EVER LOOK AT IT, BUT IT TELLS US HOW MUCH MONEY

                    WE'RE SPENDING.  IT TELLS US WHAT OUR OUT-YEAR NUMBERS LOOK LIKE.  WE

                    HAD AN EXECUTIVE BUDGET PROPOSAL, I'LL REPEAT, $27 BILLION IN OUT-YEAR

                    BUDGET DEFICITS.  WHAT DOES THAT NUMBER LOOK LIKE WITH THIS ENACTED

                    BUDGET?  AND THAT PUTS THE WHOLE PUZZLE TOGETHER.  OUR REVENUE

                    ACTIONS, OUR SPENDING ACTIONS.  WHAT ARE WE COMMITTING TO IN TERMS OF

                    RECURRING SPENDING, AND HOW FAR AWAY IS IT FROM OUR RECURRING

                    REVENUES?  THAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO KNOW AS

                    WE'RE TRYING MAKE AN EDUCATED AND INFORMED DECISION AS TO HOW TO

                    VOTE ON THESE BILLS ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE WE REPRESENT.  I HOPE THAT AS

                    WE GET FUTURE BILLS WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION, SO ESPECIALLY AS WE'RE

                    GETTING INTO APPROPRIATIONS BILLS THAT ARE APPROPRIATING A QUARTER OF A

                    TRILLION - I'LL REPEAT THAT, A QUARTER OF A TRILLION OF NEW YORK STATE

                                         37



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS.  AND IN PARTICULARLY OUT-YEAR NUMBERS SHOULD NOT

                    ONLY BE CONCERNING FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THE STATE, BUT AS WE TALK ABOUT

                    -- I HEAR A LOT OF TALK ABOUT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL

                    AND WHAT ADJUSTMENTS WE MAY HAVE TO MAKE.  WELL, IF WE'RE PUTTING

                    OURSELVES IN A WORSE POSITION IN THE OUT-YEARS, THOSE DECISIONS ARE

                    GOING TO BE THAT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT.

                                 SO, THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU, MR. RA.

                                 MR. DURSO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, CHAIR PRETLOW.  I

                    APPRECIATE IT.

                                 SO I WANNA FOCUS BACK ON THE CORRECTIONS OFFICER AND

                    THE AGE LIMIT CHANGE.  SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT WE HAVE AN

                    UNDERSTANDING OF IS THAT THEY WILL ALLOW CORRECTION OFFICERS OR PEOPLE OF

                    18 YEARS TO 21 TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT TEST IF DOCCS DECIDES THAT THERE

                    IS A STAFFING CAPACITY SHORTAGE OF 90 PERCENT OR LESS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO, ONCE THEY MAKE THAT

                    DECISION AND DETERMINATION THAT THEY'RE NOT AT THEIR STAFFING PERCENTAGE,

                                         38



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THEY WILL THEN OPEN UP THE CIVIL SERVICE EXAM FOR THOSE PEOPLE 18 AND

                    ABOVE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT,

                    YES.  THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO DO IT, BUT THEY CAN DO IT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO NOW IF THEY DO OPEN THAT UP AND

                    THEN THEY REACH THAT STAFFING LEVEL, THEN WILL THEY NOT BE ALLOWED TO

                    OPEN UP TESTING TO CONTINUALLY FILL THOSE ROLLS IF THE STAFFING IS ABOVE

                    THAT 90 PERCENT?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AFTER IT REACHES 90 PERCENT, THE

                    AUTHORIZATION IS NEGATED.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO IT'S -- IT'S BASICALLY JUST TO

                    FILL THE SPOTS THAT ARE NEEDED, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, SO THEN

                    WE'RE HIRING 18- TO 21-YEAR-OLDS TO WORK IN OUR STATE PRISONS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  TO FILL THOSE GAPS.  BUT THEY'RE NOT

                    ALLOWED TO DO CERTAIN JOBS WITHIN THE PRISON, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  AND SOME OF THOSE ARE CONTACT

                    ROLES, CORRECT?  SO BEING --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY SHOULD HAVE NO INMATE

                    CONTACT AT ALL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO WHAT -- WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

                                         39



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE WORKING IN THE OFFICES --

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  -- AND THEY'RE WORKING IN THE

                    INFIRMARY.  THEY'RE WORKING IN VARIOUS OTHER PLACES WITHIN THE FACILITY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  AS CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AS CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.

                    CORRECTIONS OFFICERS ARE DOING IT NOW.

                                 MR. DURSO:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BUT THIS WOULD REPLACE THE ONES

                    WITH MORE EXPERIENCE, ONES THAT CAN GO INSIDE THE FACILITY, AND HAVE

                    THE 18- TO 21-YEAR-OLDS FILL IN THE SPACES FOR THEM.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO THOSE THAT ARE DOING MORE CLERICAL

                    WORK --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE ALWAYS SUPERVISED.

                    THEY'RE ALWAYS UNDER SUPERVISION.

                                 MR. DURSO:  UNTIL THE AGE OF 21, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO, NOW IN CASE -- AND THEY ARE

                    NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ONCE THEY ARE EMPLOYED BY THE STATE,

                    WORKING IN THE PRISONS, TO BE ABLE TO CARRY A FIREARM FOR ANY TYPES OF

                    JOB THAT'S GOING ON WITHIN THE PRISON, CORRECT?

                                               (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, NO CORRECTION OFFICER CARRIES

                    A FIREARM IN THE PRISON.  THAT'S --

                                 MR. DURSO:  WELL, THEY WILL IN AN EMERGENCY,

                                         40



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CORRECT?  SO IF -- IF THERE'S A --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY -- THEY WON'T BE PART OF THAT

                    UNIT THAT WOULD BE CALLED IN TO CARRY FIREARMS WITHIN A FACILITY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  WHAT IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY -- IT DOESN'T MATTER.  THEY

                    WILL NOT BE PART OF ANY -- ANY GROUP THAT'S CARRYING FIREARMS WITHIN THE

                    PRISON.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES,

                    CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO, CORRECTIONS OFFICERS DURING THE

                    ACADEMY DO GO THROUGH SOME TYPE OF FIREARM TRAINING, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THEY WILL GET FIREARM

                    TRAINING.  THAT'S PART OF THEIR TRAINING, BUT THEY WILL NOT BE PERMITTED TO

                    CARRY FIREARMS WITHIN A PRISON FACILITY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO TRAINING DOESN'T CHANGE,

                    RIGHT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THEY'RE GETTING SAME TRAINING THAT

                    ANYBODY 21 AND UP WOULD GET.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU'RE RIGHT.  THEN WHEN THEY

                    BECOME 21 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --

                                 MR. DURSO:  JUST THEIR JOB DUTIES ARE DIFFERENT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO NOW GOING TO THE PART

                                         41



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHERE WE CAN HIRE OUT-OF-STATE WORKERS, RIGHT, PEOPLE THAT LIVE WITHIN,

                    LET'S JUST SAY VERMONT, PENNSYLVANIA, NEW JERSEY, TO FILL THOSE ROLLS.

                    NOW THAT'S GONNA BE OPEN TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT DO NOT LIVE WITHIN NEW

                    YORK STATE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  IS THERE ANY TYPE OF RESIDENCE --

                    RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT SAYING THAT THEY HAVE TO MOVE INTO NEW YORK

                    STATE ONCE THEY ARE HIRED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  WILL THEY RECEIVE THE SAME

                    BENEFITS THAT ANY OTHER CORRECTIONS OFFICER GETS, INCLUDING PAY,

                    HEALTHCARE, ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AS EMPLOYEES, OF COURSE THEY WILL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  AND THE NEW YORK STATE RETIREMENT,

                    CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  DO THEY -- NOW, WE HAVE

                    CERTAIN BENEFITS IN NEW YORK STATE THAT WE GIVE TO OUR STATE

                    EMPLOYEES, INCLUDING COLLEGE TUITION REIMBURSEMENT, ANYTHING LIKE

                    THAT.  WILL THEY THEN QUALIFY FOR THOSE THINGS EVEN THOUGH THEY LIVE OUT-

                    OF-STATE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  NO.  IS THAT PROVISION IN THE -- IN THE

                    BILL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE

                                         42



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    EXECUTIVE OR THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PRISONS [SIC].

                                 MR. DURSO:  THAT -- THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEAH, THAT -- THAT'S NOT IN THE BILL,

                    NO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO -- SO BUT WE'RE JUST SAYING A

                    BLANKET NO, THEY WON'T QUALIFY FOR THOSE BECAUSE THEY LIVE OUT-OF-STATE

                    EVEN THOUGH IT'S AFFORDED TO EVERY OTHER NEW YORK STATE EMPLOYEE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS

                    THEY WOULDN'T QUALIFY FOR ANYTHING.  SO ARE YOU REFERRING TO COLLEGE

                    TUITION --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 MR. DURSO:  SURE, LET'S JUST USE THE ONE EXAMPLE,

                    SURE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SO THEY WOULD NOT QUALIFY FOR THAT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  BUT EVERY OTHER NEW YORK STATE

                    EMPLOYEE WOULD.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  JUST IF YOU LIVE OUT OF -- SO BASICALLY

                    YOU'RE SAYING THEY HAVE TO LIVE WITHIN THE STATE TO RECEIVE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  LET -- LET ME CHECK ON THAT TO GET

                    AN ACCURATE ANSWER FOR YOU.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SURE.

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR ANYTHING THAT

                    ANY OTHER EMPLOYEE IS ELIGIBLE FOR --

                                         43



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO WE ARE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  INCLUDING COLLEGE REIMBURSEMENT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO WE'RE GONNA GIVE SOMEONE THAT

                    LIVES IN VERMONT, NEW JERSEY, PENNSYLVANIA, THE SAME BENEFITS THAT

                    ANY OTHER NEW YORKER WOULD HAVE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'RE GIVING SOMEONE THAT'S

                    WORKING FOR THE NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS THE SAME

                    BENEFITS THAT OTHER WORKERS ARE RECEIVING.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SHOULDN'T WE JUST SAVE THAT FOR OUR --

                    FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN NEW YORK STATE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF WE COULD FILL THEM WITH NEW

                    YORKERS THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO LOOK TO THE OUTSIDE TO FILL.  WE'D STILL

                    HAVE THE 4,000 INDIVIDUAL SHORTAGE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO FILL TO MAKE THE

                    FACILITY SAFER.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  AND -- AND WHAT IS THE NUMBER

                    OF CORRECTION OFFICERS WE DO NEED TO HIRE TO FILL THAT STAFFING

                    REQUIREMENT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  FOUR THOUSAND.

                                 MR. DURSO:  FOUR THOUSAND.  SO WE'RE LOOKING AT

                    POSSIBLY 4,000 -- POSSIBLY, OBVIOUSLY, NOT ALL OF THEM WILL COME OUT OF

                    NEW YORK STATE.  BUT POSSIBLY THOUSANDS OF NON-NEW YORKERS

                                              (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) TO BRING

                    THE SYSTEM UP TO FULL EMPLOYMENT, WE NEED AN ADDITIONAL 4,000

                    INDIVIDUALS.

                                         44



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. DURSO:  AS OPPOSED -- SO JUST -- YOU KNOW,

                    AND IT'S -- IT'S, AGAIN, A RHETORICAL QUESTION, BUT WOULDN'T WE BE BETTER

                    SERVED GIVING THE BENEFITS, PAYING OUR CORRECTION OFFICERS MORE AND

                    MAKING THE PRISONS SAFE FOR THEM TO WORK IN INSTEAD OF HIRING PEOPLE

                    OUTSIDE OF THE STATE AND GIVING THEM THEIR BENEFITS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THE

                    QUESTION.

                                 MR. DURSO:  I APOLOGIZE, SIR.  I SAID WOULDN'T WE BE

                    BETTER OFF MAKING OUR PRISONS SAFER, PAYING OUR -- OUR CORRECTION

                    OFFICERS BETTER AND GIVING THEM BETTER HEALTHCARE BENEFITS TO ATTRACT

                    PEOPLE WITHIN NEW YORK STATE TO WORK THERE AS OPPOSED TO ATTRACTING

                    PEOPLE THAT WORK OUTSIDE OF THE STATE AND GIVING THEM ALL THE SAME

                    BENEFITS THAT HARD-WORKING NEW YORKERS GET EXCEPT THEY GET TO LIVE

                    SOMEWHERE ELSE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THE ATTEMPT IS TO ATTRACT NEW

                    YORKERS, BUT BASED ON THE LOCATION OF MANY OF THE FACILITIES THERE AREN'T

                    ENOUGH INDIVIDUALS TO FILL THE POSITIONS THAT WE NEED.  THAT'S WHY

                    ANOTHER ONE OF THE PROPOSALS IS TO DIVEST OURSELVES OF CERTAIN FACILITIES

                    AND MOVE THEM CLOSER TO A LARGER POPULATION.  TO RECRUIT PEOPLE FROM

                    NEW YORK CITY AND HAVE THEM HAVE TO COMMUTE TO CLINTON COUNTY,

                    IT'S -- IT'S REALLY -- IT'S REALLY ROUGH THAT -- WE HAVE VERY FEW FACILITIES

                    DOWNSTATE.  THERE ARE TWO WOMEN'S FACILITIES AND THERE -- THERE ARE

                    HALF-WAY-TYPE HOUSE, BUT THE MAIN FACILITIES ARE FAR UPSTATE, FAR FROM

                    THE POPULATION OF NEW YORK STATE.  YOU KNOW, A MAJORITY OF THE

                    POPULATION OF NEW YORK STATE.

                                         45



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, SO AGAIN, WE

                    CAN HIRE SOMEONE THAT LIVES IN PENNSYLVANIA AND THEN SOMEONE THAT

                    LIVES IN RHODE ISLAND, RIGHT?  THEY MAYBE LIVE ON THE BORDER.  OR

                    MAINE, EVEN --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RHODE ISLAND

                    (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --

                                 MR. DURSO:  -- (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) SOMEONE

                    ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE STATE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  IS THERE ANY PROVISIONS IN THIS STATING

                    THAT SO IF WE HIRE SOMEONE FROM NEW JERSEY -- BECAUSE AGAIN, IF YOU

                    GO WORK FOR STATE CORRECTIONS [SIC], YOU COULD BE PUT IN ANY

                    CORRECTIONAL FACILITY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  IS THERE ANY PROVISION STATING THAT

                    THEY'LL BE IN AN AREA THAT'S CLOSE FOR THEM TO GET --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, THEY WILL BE TREATED JUST LIKE

                    ANY OTHER --

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO HOW IS THAT ATTRACTING PEOPLE FROM

                    OUTSIDE THE STATE TO COME WORK HERE BUT YOU COULD BE LIVING IN JERSEY

                    AND HAVE TO TRAVEL UP TO BUFFALO?  THAT'S NOT REALLY -- IT'S NOT GONNA

                    WORK AS FAR AS COMMUTE.  SO IT'S ACTUALLY COUNTER --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE NOT BASING THIS

                    ON THE CONVENIENCE OF THE INDIVIDUAL THAT'S BEING HIRED, WE'RE BASING IT

                                         46



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ON THE NEED TO HAVE PERSON POWER IN THE FACILITIES.  WHEN THEY'RE HIRED

                    THEY WOULD MORE THAN LIKELY MAKE A REQUEST AS THE FACILITY THAT THEY

                    WOULD LIKE TO WORK IN, AND MORE THAN LIKELY THEY WILL BE HIRED WITH

                    THAT ON THE -- ON THE BACK BURNER --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 MR. DURSO:  BUT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE OF IT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BUT THEY COULD, OF COURSE, BE

                    TRANSFERRED TO ANOTHER FACILITY.  BUT IF THEY'RE NEEDED WHERE THEY'RE FIRST

                    HIRED, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE TRANSFERRED.

                                 MR. DURSO:  UNDERSTOOD.  BUT YOU HAD -- YOU HAD

                    STATED JUST EARLIER THAT CLOSING SOME OF THE PRISONS, POSSIBLY, RIGHT, AND

                    MOVING THEM TO BIGGER CITY AREAS WHERE THEY COULD ATTRACT MORE PEOPLE

                    AND PEOPLE COULD THEN COMMUTE EASIER, THIS WAS THE COUNTER-ARGUMENT.

                    BECAUSE AGAIN, SOMEONE IN NEW JERSEY COULD APPLY, GET HIRED, BUT

                    THEN BE SENT TO BUFFALO.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M PRETTY SURE IF SOMEONE FROM

                    NEW JERSEY IS HIRED THEY'D KNOW WHAT FACILITY THEY WOULD BE ASSIGNED

                    TO, AND MORE THAN LIKELY NOT BE TRANSFERRED TO SOMEPLACE FAR AWAY FROM

                    THEIR HOME.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  IS -- IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY OR

                    ANY THOUGHT ON STATE HOUSING FOR SOME OF THE WORKERS THAT WILL BE

                    HIRED, THAT MAY BE --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT MANY OF

                    THEM NOW LIVE IN TRAILERS OUTSIDE THE FACILITIES BUT THERE'S NO STATE

                                         47



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    HOUSING BEING BUILT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  WE HAVE TRAIL -- I'M SORRY, CAN YOU SAY

                    -- WE HAVE TRAILERS --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT MANY

                    CORRECTION OFFICERS ARE LIVING IN TRAILERS OUTSIDE OF THE FACILITY BECAUSE

                    THERE IS NO STATE HOUSING --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 MR. DURSO:  IS THAT ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE TO COME

                    WORK FOR THE CORRECTIONAL -- I'M (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK).

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T KNOW HOW ATTRACTIVE IT IS,

                    BUT TRAILER PARKS ARE QUITE POPULAR ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND I DON'T KNOW

                    WHAT --

                                 MR. DURSO:  WELL, I DIDN'T SAY THAT.  THAT'S NOT

                    WHAT I SAID.  I JUST SAID THAT TRAILERS OUTSIDE OF A PRISON DOESN'T SOUND

                    ALL THAT ATTRACTIVE.  THAT WAS -- THAT WAS PRETTY GOOD.

                                 SO, LET ME JUST MAKE SURE I HAVE NO OTHER QUESTIONS.

                    SO GOING BACK TO 18-YEAR-OLDS BEING ABLE TO, AGAIN, WORK IN A CAPACITY

                    IN A PRISON WITH A CONTACT ROLE AND/OR HAVE TO USE -- BEING

                    (INDISCERNIBLE) IF THEY'RE CARRYING A FIREARM.  DOES THAT STOP THEM FROM

                    BEING ABLE TO APPLY FOR A CONCEALED-CARRY LICENSE WHEN THEY'RE WORKING

                    OFF DUTY?  IN OTHER WORDS, A LOT OF THOSE CORRECTION OFFICERS OBVIOUSLY

                    CARRY A FIREARM ON THEM WHEN THEY'RE OFF DUTY, OBVIOUSLY TO PROTECT

                    THEMSELVES, THEIR FAMILY.  AND MOST OF THEM ARE ALLOWED TO DO THAT DUE

                    TO HAVING PEACE OFFICER STATUS.  NOW, DOES THAT CHANGE FOR THEM IF THEY

                    ARE HIRED AT 18 --

                                         48



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, THAT DOES NOT CHANGE FOR THEM.

                    YOU HAVE TO BE 21 TO APPLY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  I'M SORRY, SAY THAT AGAIN, SIR?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT DOES NOT CHANGE FOR THEM.

                    THEY CANNOT MAKE AN APPLICATION AS AN 18-YEAR-OLD CORRECTION OFFICER

                    TO HAVE AN OFF-DUTY WEAPON.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO WE'RE NOT GIVING THE CORRECTION

                    OFFICERS THAT ARE 18 AND 19 THE SAME ABILITY TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND

                    THEIR FAMILY AFTER WORKING IN A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY WHEN THEY'RE

                    WALKING OUT ON THE STREET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, WE'RE NOT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 AND THEN JUST TOUCHING ON THE 20 YEAR RETIREMENT FOR

                    THE NEW YORK CITY CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.  WAS THAT, IN YOUR ESTIMATION,

                    A FINANCIAL ISSUE THAT THEY DIDN'T ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO. THAT'S NOT IN THIS BILL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THAT'S NOT IN THIS BILL?  I'M SORRY, SIR.  I

                    MAY HAVE BEEN CONFUSED.  JUST GIVE ME ONE SECOND IF YOU DON'T MIND.

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 SO WE HAVE IT AS PART SS, SIR.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'RE TALKING NYPD

                    (INDISCERNIBLE) CORRRECTIONS OFFICERS DO NOT --

                                 MR. DURSO:  RIGHT.  I'M -- THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

                    SO NYPD HAS A 20 YEAR.

                                         49



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  CORRECT?  BUT NEW YORK CITY

                    CORRECTIONS DOES NOT HAVE A 20 RETIREMENT IN THIS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  IS THAT A FINANCIAL ISSUE IS THAT THEY'RE

                    NOT ALLOWING TO GET 20 YEAR AND --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE ARE NUMEROUS RETIREMENT

                    BILLS THAT GO THROUGH THIS CHAMBER ON AN ANNUAL BASIS AND THEIR

                    PENSION SYSTEM WAS SET UP IN A DIFFERENT WAY.  RIGHT NOW THE

                    CORRECTIONS OFFICERS IN NEW YORK CITY DO NOT HAVE A 20 YEAR

                    RETIREMENT, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THERE'S A BILL FLOATING AROUND SOMEWHERE

                    TO GIVE THEM THAT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  WILL THAT BILL BE IN ONE OF OUR BUDGET

                    BILLS --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT WOULD BE A STANDALONE BILL

                    MORE THAN LIKELY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THAT WOULD BE A STANDALONE BILL.  AND

                    -- AND AGAIN, YOU'RE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S MORE OF A FINANCIAL ISSUE

                    THAT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWING THOSE CORRECTION OFFICERS TO GET A 20 YEAR

                    RETIREMENT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, IT IS A FINANCIAL ISSUE, OF

                    COURSE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  AGAIN, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

                                         50



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    RECRUITING AND RETAINMENT OF CORRECTIONS OFFICERS, INCLUDING IN NEW

                    YORK CITY WHERE A LOT OF THEM DO LEAVE AND GO OVER TO NYPD, OR A LOT

                    OF THEM ARE JUST LITERALLY WAITING FOR THAT 20 YEAR RETIREMENT TO GET IN

                    AND GET OUT.  AND WE CAN'T RETAIN THEM, KEEP THEM.  OBVIOUSLY THE

                    PRISONS ARE DANGEROUS, CONDITIONS IN NEW YORK CITY PRI -- PRISONS ARE

                    AWFUL.  WE HAVE NO OTHER RETAINMENT TOOL TO HIRE MORE OFFICERS.  I THINK

                    A 20 YEAR RETIREMENT WOULD BE SOME WAY TO BRING MORE PEOPLE INTO

                    THAT THAT'S NEEDED, DON'T YOU THINK?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  MORE THAN LIKELY, BUT I THINK THIS IS

                    TRUE IN MANY OTHER AREAS.  I MEAN HALF THE AREA THAT I REPRESENT, THEY

                    CANNOT KEEP POLICE OFFICERS BECAUSE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES PAY 20

                    PERCENT MORE THAN THE COMMUNITY THAT I REPRESENT THE POLICE OFFICERS.

                    SO THEY GO TO MY CITY WHERE THERE'S ALWAYS A VACANCY.  THEY GET

                    TRAINING AND THEN THEY JUMP SHIP AND GO SOMEPLACE ELSE.  IT'S A

                    FINANCIAL ISSUE, BUT IT'S FELT IN MANY OTHER AREAS OTHER THAN CORRECTION

                    OFFICERS.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MR. PRETLOW.  I APPRECIATE

                    YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE CHAIR PLEASE YIELD FOR A COUPLE QUESTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                         51



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  I FELT THAT.  I'M SORRY.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 SO MOST OF MY QUESTIONS ARE GOING TO FOCUS AROUND

                    THE CORRECTIONS AND PRISON ISSUES AS WELL, AND I APOLOGIZE IF SOME OF

                    THEM SEEM REDUNDANT BUT I'M JUST LOOKING FOR SOME CLARITY.

                                 SO IN LOWERING THE MINIMUM AGE FOR CORRECTION

                    OFFICERS TO 18, THEY WOULD STILL BE PEACE OFFICERS, CORRECT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO: -- EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE WORKING IN

                    MORE OF THESE CLERICAL ROLES?  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 YOU STATED DURING YOUR DISCUSSION WITH MY COLLEAGUE

                    HERE THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE REALLY ANY CONTACT WITH THE INMATES THERE.

                    IS THAT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY SHOULDN'T UNLESS THEY'RE

                    SUPERVISED.  THEY SHOULD NOT UNDER THE NORMAL COURSE OF THINGS, BUT IF

                    SOMETHING COMES UP AND THEY'RE SUPERVISED THEY WILL NOT -- THEY COULD

                    HAVE CONTACT.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  AND DO THEY HAVE TO BE

                    SUPERVISED IN ALL OF THEIR DUTIES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  SO NOT SUPERVISED IN ALL OF

                    THE DUTIES.  WHICH -- WHAT TYPES OF DUTIES WOULD THEY HAVE TO BE

                    SUPERVISED BY --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF THEY'RE TYPING IN THE OFFICE, IF

                                         52



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THEY'RE ADMITTING VISITORS, IF THEY'RE WORKING IN THE YARD OUTSIDE, IF

                    THEY'RE -- BUT EVEN (INDISCERNIBLE) -- NON-CONTACT JOBS, THERE ARE

                    NUMEROUS JOBS IN A FACILITY THAT DO NOT HAVE CONTACT WITH THE INMATES.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  SO IF THERE'S NO CONTACT

                    WITH --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO: -- OKAY.  THEN THERE WOULD BE NO

                    SUPERVISION.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  YOU MENTIONED THEY MIGHT WORK

                    IN -- IN AN INFIRMARY.  WOULD THAT BE A SITUATION WHERE THEY WOULD

                    REQUIRE,

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF THEY WORKED IN THE INFIRMARY AND

                    SOMEONE WAS BROUGHT IN THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE SUPERVISED.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  AND SO GIVEN THE LIMITED

                    SCOPE OF WITH WHAT AN UNDER 21 CORRECTIONS OFFICER CAN DO, HOW MUCH

                    DO WE EXPECT THAT TO IMPROVE THE STAFFING CAPACITIES OF THESE FACILITIES?

                    I KNOW THERE'S SOME PROVISIONS IN THERE TO -- FOR THE COMMISSIONER TO

                    SUBMIT A REPORT.  LET ME GO BACK, ACTUALLY.  WHAT IS THE CURRENT STAFFING

                    CAPACITY FOR MOST OF OUR STATE PRISONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT NOW WE'RE -- MY

                    UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE'RE 4,000 CORRECTION OFFICERS SHORT.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AND TRYING TO FILL THAT GAP.  SO

                    WHAT WE'VE DECIDED TO -- WHAT WE'VE DONE IN NEGOTIATIONS IS SAYING IF

                                         53



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WE CAN GET UP TO A 90 PERCENT CAPACITY, THEN WE WON'T HAVE THE NEED TO

                    TAKE OUT-OF-STATE INDIVIDUALS UNDER -- UNDER 21, BUT AS IT STANDS RIGHT

                    NOW TO KEEP THE SAFETY OF THE -- OF THE INMATES, WE NEED A HIGHER

                    NUMBER OF CORRECTION OFFICERS.  SO WHAT THIS DOES IS REMOVES AN

                    EXPERIENCED CORRECTION OFFICER FROM NON-CONTACT DUTIES THEY HAVE NOW

                    AND PUT THEM INTO THE FACILITY AND REPLACE THEM WITH PEOPLE BETWEEN

                    THE AGES OF 18 AND 21.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  DO YOU KNOW PERCENTAGE-WISE

                    WHAT THE STAFFING CAPACITY IS?  I KNOW WE HAVE TO -- WE'RE LOOKING TO

                    GET IT UP TO 90.  DO YOU KNOW --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NOT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 SO WE NEED 2,500 TO GET TO --

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  TWENTY-FIVE HUNDRED, OKAY.  SO

                    NOW THE DOCCS COMMISSIONER HAS TO SUBMIT A STAFFING CAPACITY

                    REPORT TO THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE UNTIL WE HIT THAT 90 PERCENT

                    --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO: -- STAFFING CAPACITY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  WHY DON'T THEY HAVE TO CONTINUE

                    SUBMITTING THE REPORTS SO WE CAN MONITOR IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, STAYING

                    ABOVE 90 PERCENT, IF IT'S CLOSER TO 95?  WHY ARE WE ALLOWING THEM TO

                    JUST STOP SUBMITTING THAT REPORT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN

                                         54



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    REGULARLY UNTIL THEY HIT THE 90 PERCENT.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  RIGHT, BUT IF -- IF WE HIT 90

                    PERCENT, WHY DO THEY NO LONGER HAVE TO SUBMIT THE STAFFING CAPACITY

                    REPORT?  DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE CONTINUALLY

                    MONITORED TO SEE IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, STARTING TO DIP BACK DOWN BELOW THE

                    90?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  MORE THAN LIKELY, YEAH.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  SO IT SHOULD -- OKAY.  SO

                    IS THERE ANY PROVISION THAT IF IT DOES DIP BELOW 90 PERCENT THAT THEY

                    HAVE TO START SUBMITTING THEIR REPORTS AGAIN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  I REALLY THINK THAT SHOULD

                    BE IN THERE BECAUSE IF, YOU KNOW, IF SOME OF THESE CHANGES DON'T WORK,

                    THE EXAMPLE USED OF OUT-OF-STATE WORKERS, AND MAYBE THERE'S NEEDS IN A

                    PRISON A LITTLE FARTHER AWAY THAN THEY HAD ORIGINALLY EXPECTED TO WORK

                    IN AND THEY DECIDE THEY'RE GOING TO LEAVE THE WORKFORCE.  DO YOU

                    ENVISION A SCENARIO WHERE THE STAFFING RATIO -- STAFFING CAPACITIES COULD

                    START DECLINING?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT COULD.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  OKAY.  AND JUST ON A

                    COUPLE OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED BY A LOT OF CORRECTIONS

                    OFFICERS.  I KNOW IN THE AGREEMENT WHERE A LOT OF THE COS RETURN TO

                    WORK, SOME PROVISIONS OF HALT WAS SUSPENDED FOR 90 DAYS.  I KNOW

                    THERE'S THAT COMMITTEE THAT IS WORKING TO RECOMMEND CHANGES.  ARE

                    THERE ANY CHANGES TO HALT IN THIS BUDGET?

                                         55



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  IS THERE ANY REASON WHY

                    THERE ARE NO CHANGES TO HALT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THAT WASN'T PART OF THE

                    NEGOTIATIONS WHEN WE DID THAT.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  SO THERE'S --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 OKAY.  YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY

                    WOULD MEAN A LOT TO OUR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS AND FOR THE RECRUITMENT

                    ABILITY.  I KNOW ONE ISSUE ON MY VISITS TO RIKERS ISLAND THAT WERE RAISED

                    WERE THE -- THE ISSUE OF SEXUAL ASSAULTS ON CORRECTIONS OFFICERS FROM

                    INMATES, SPECIFICALLY FEMALE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.  THERE IS LEGISLATION

                    INTRODUCED IN OUR HOUSE THAT WOULD ESTABLISH THE CRIME OF FORCEABLE

                    TOUCHING OF A CORRECTIONS OFFICER.  IS ANYTHING LIKE THAT INCLUDED IN THIS

                    BUDGET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU'RE SAYING THERE WAS SEXUAL

                    ASSAULTS BY FEMALE INMATES ON CORRECTION OFFICERS AND --

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  NO, NO. BY MALE INMATES ON --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  OKAY.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  SORRY IF I WORDED IT A LITTLE

                    CLUNKY, BUT REGARDLESS, IS THERE -- IS THERE ANYTHING THAT ADDRESSES THAT

                    ISSUE AND ESTABLISHES A CRIME OF FORCIBLE TOUCHING OF A CORRECTIONS

                    OFFICER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, NO. THAT'S NOT IN THIS -- THIS

                                         56



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    BILL, NO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  AND NOW WHAT ABOUT THE

                    DEATH GAMBLE?  IS THERE ANYTHING ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF THE DEATH

                    GAMBLE WHERE IF CORRECTIONS OFFICERS WORK PAST THEIR RETIREMENT AGE

                    AND THEN PASS AWAY, THEIR BENEFICIARIES LOSE OUT ON THEIR PENSION

                    BENEFITS.  I KNOW THAT'S A BIG ISSUE FOR A LOT OF CORRECTIONS OFFICERS AND

                    MOST LIKELY DOES IMPACT THE RECRUITMENT OF CORRECTIONS OFFICERS AND THE

                    STAFFING LEVELS.  IS THERE ANY CHANGE TO THE DEATH GAMBLE THAT THE

                    GOVERNOR'S VETOED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, THERE ISN'T.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  OKAY.  BECAUSE SHE HAD

                    SAID IT SHOULD BE TAKEN UP IN THE BUDGET, BUT EVEN THOUGH IT'S VETOED,

                    IT'S NOT IN THE BUDGET.  IS THERE A REASON WHY THAT -- THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE

                    CUT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AS -- AS I STATED EARLIER, WE PASS A

                    LOT OF PENSION BILLS IN THIS HOUSE AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE ONE TIMES IT

                    WOULD MORE THAN LIKELY BE PART OF THE NEGOTIATIONS AGAIN.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU.

                                 NOW IN TERMS OF JUST GOING BACK, I WANT TO BE CLEAR I

                    HEARD THIS CORRECTLY.  SO THE 18-YEAR-OLD CORRECTIONS OFFICERS OR UNDER

                    21 CORRECTIONS OFFICERS, THEY WOULD RECEIVE THE FIREARMS TRAINING AS

                    PART OF THE ACADEMY, BUT THEY -- UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD BE

                    ABLE TO CARRY A FIREARM.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  AND ALSO THEY COULD NOT CARRY

                                         57



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OUTSIDE OF THEIR WORK HOURS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW, THOSE ARE ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL BRIEFLY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 YOU KNOW, CONTAINED IN THIS BUDGET BILL IS SUPPOSED

                    TO BE THE SOLUTION TO A LOT OF THE STAFFING PROBLEMS THAT OUR STATE

                    PRISONS ARE FACING.  UNFORTUNATELY A LOT OF THEM APPEAR TO BE HALF

                    MEASURES THAT ARE GOING TO PROVIDE THE LONG-TERM STABILITY FOR THAT

                    WORKFORCE.  THEY ARE -- CONTINUE TO BE -- OUR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS

                    CONTINUE TO LACK SOME OF THE BENEFITS AND PROTECTIONS THAT OTHER LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS HAVE, AND THEN WE'RE WONDERING WHY WE'RE

                    HAVING A HARD TIME RETAINING AND ATTRACTING PEOPLE TO WORK IN THESE

                    JOBS TO AVOID THE CRISIS THAT WE SAW LESS THAN TWO MONTHS AGO.  IT'S -- OF

                    COURSE IT'S NICE TO SEE SOMETHING DONE, BUT WE'RE REALLY NOT GOING FAR

                    ENOUGH TO MAKE A MEANINGFUL CHANGE FOR THESE OFFICERS WHO PUT THEIR

                    HEALTH AND SAFETY ON THE LINE EACH AND EVERY DAY THAT THEY SHOW UP TO

                    WORK.  I JUST THINK WE CAN DO BETTER HERE.  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. SLATER.

                                 MR. SLATER:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE CHAIRMAN YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                                         58



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 MR. SLATER:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIRMAN.  I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

                                 I JUST WANT TO TOUCH BASE ON SOME OF THE CAMPAIGN

                    FINANCE CHANGES TO BEGIN WITH.  I KNOW THAT YOU ANSWERED SOME OF MY

                    COLLEAGUES' QUESTIONS EARLIER.  I JUST WANTED TO DIVE A LITTLE BIT DEEPER

                    INTO THAT IF WE COULD.  JUST CURIOUS IF WE KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY WAS

                    SPENT LAST YEAR ON THE PUBLIC FINANCE PROGRAM HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CAN I DEFER THAT QUESTION TO

                    CHAIRMAN -- CHAIRWOMAN WALKER?

                                 MR. SLATER:  SURE.

                                 MS. WALKER:  THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.  THE

                    ANSWER TO THAT IS 35 MILLION, MR. SLATER.

                                 MR. SLATER:  GREAT.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  DO

                    WE KNOW HOW MANY PARTICIPANTS WE HAD IN THAT PROGRAM?

                                 MS. WALKER:  OF THE 336 ASSEMBLY POLITICAL

                    CANDIDATES IN THE 2024 ELECTION CYCLE, 67 PERCENT WERE REGISTERED FOR

                    THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROGRAM.  OF THAT 67 PERCENT, 59 PERCENT

                    PARTICIPATED IN AND RECEIVED MATCHING FUNDS IN THE 2024 GENERAL

                    ELECTION.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND THAT WAS JUST THE ASSEMBLY.  IT

                    DIDN'T INCLUDE SENATE CANDIDATES, CORRECT?

                                 MS. WALKER:  NO.

                                 MR. SLATER:  DO WE KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS JUST

                                         59



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SO WE HAVE A CUMULATIVE?

                                 MS. WALKER:  WE CAN GET THAT FOR YOU.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  THAT'S FINE.  WE CAN MOVE ON.

                                 SO I JUST WANTED TO DIVE DEEPER INTO THE MATCH,

                    BECAUSE WE ARE CHANGING SOME OF THOSE PARAMETERS THAT WE HEARD

                    EARLIER.  SO JUST TO MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR, WHAT IS THE CALCULATION IF

                    SOMEONE RECEIVES A THOUSAND -- $1,050 DONATION AND THE $250 ARE

                    MATCHED?  WHAT WOULD THAT MATCHABLE CALCULATION BE?

                                 MS. WALKER:  TWENTY-THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND THAT'S THE SAME AS IT WAS

                    PREVIOUSLY, CORRECT?

                                 MS. WALKER:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  GREAT.  I APPRECIATE THAT.

                                 AND I WANTED TO JUST TOUCH ON THE DEFINITION OF

                    SURPLUS, BECAUSE THERE SEEMED TO BE A LOT OF CONFUSION DURING LAST

                    CYCLE ON HOW A SURPLUS IS CALCULATED.  DOES THE LANGUAGE PROVIDED IN

                    THIS BILL SPECIFICALLY LINE OR CALL OUT HOW THEY DEFINE SURPLUS?

                                 MS. WALKER:  YES.  IF YOU LOOK IN PART OO,

                    SECTION 1 DOWN TO ON THE THIRD PAGE TO LINE NUMBER 19 -- SORRY.  LINE

                    NUMBER 3, SECTION NO. 19.  SURPLUS MEANS THOSE FUNDS WHERE THE TOTAL

                    SUM OF CONTRIBUTIONS RECEIVED AND PUBLIC MATCHABLE FUNDS RECEIVED BY

                    A PARTICIPATING CANDIDATE AND HIS OR HER OR THEIR AUTHORIZED COMMITTEE

                    EXCEEDS THE TOTAL CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURES OF SUCH CANDIDATE IN

                    AUTHORIZED COMMITTEE FOR ALL COVERED ELECTIONS HELD IN THE SAME

                    CALENDAR YEAR, OR FOR A SPECIAL ELECTION TO FILL A VACANCY.  FOR PURPOSES

                                         60



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OF THIS SUBDIVISION, TOTAL CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURES SHALL INCLUDE

                    TRANSFERS, CONTRIBUTIONS OUT AND ALL OTHER LAWFUL LIABILITIES INCURRED.

                    THOSE -- THAT WAS THE UPDATE, SIR.

                                 MR. SLATER:  VERY GOOD.  I -- I APPRECIATE THAT.  SO

                    JUST TO MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR, SOMEONE CAN TRANSFER FUNDS CURRENTLY

                    BASED ON THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTION'S RULING TO EITHER ANOTHER

                    HOUSEKEEPING ACCOUNT OR SOME OTHER CAMPAIGN ACCOUNT; IS THAT TRUE?

                                 MS. WALKER:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND SO ARE WE CODIFYING THAT ABILITY

                    HERE?  BECAUSE THAT WAS JUST A RULING BY THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS.

                    IT WASN'T IN ANY OF THE LANGUAGE THAT WE PASSED, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HERE

                    AS A LEGISLATURE.

                                 MS. WALKER:  SO THE DEFINITION OF TRANSFER MEANS

                    -- WHICH WAS -- WHICH IS INCLUDED IN THE LAW, MEANS ANY EXCHANGE OF

                    FUNDS BETWEEN A PARTY OR CONSTITUTED COMMITTEE AND A CANDIDATE OR ANY

                    OF HIS OR HER AUTHORIZED COMMITTEES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND SO YOU COULD RECEIVE PUBLIC

                    FUNDS AND TRANSFER THOSE PUBLIC FUNDS INTO ONE OF THOSE COMMITTEES.

                                 MS. WALKER:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  GREAT.  THANK YOU FOR THE

                    CLARIFICATION.  I APPRECIATE THAT.  AND I WANT TO JUST GET INTO THE

                    CARRYOVER.  I KNOW THAT MY COLLEAGUE TOUCHED UPON IT EARLIER.

                                 SO RIGHT IN THE -- IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM, CARRYOVER

                    FUNDS WAS NOT ALLOWED.  IN THE NEW SYSTEM, UNDER THESE PROVISIONS,

                    WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW UP TO $50,000.  IS THAT PUBLIC OR NON-PUBLIC FUNDS

                                         61



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OR ARE YOU CO-MINGLING BOTH?

                                 MS. WALKER:  NON-PUBLIC FUNDS.

                                 MR. SLATER:  NON-PUBLIC FUNDS.  SO YOU CANNOT

                    CARRY OVER ANY MONEY THAT YOU RECEIVE FROM THE STATE INTO A -- A -- THE

                    FOLLOWING YEAR ELECTION.

                                 MS. WALKER:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  FANTASTIC.  ARE THERE

                    LIMITATIONS ON HOW THOSE FUNDS THAT ARE CARRIED OVER CAN BE USED?

                                 MS. WALKER:  NO.  ANY -- WELL, THERE ARE CERTAIN

                    LIMITATIONS, OF COURSE, IN TERMS OF WHAT IS --

                                 MR. SLATER:  OF COURSE.

                                 MS. WALKER: -- INELIGIBLE --

                                 MR. SLATER:  YES.

                                 MS. WALKER: -- CAMPAIGN EXPENSE, BUT NO.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  SO AS LONG AS IT'S BASICALLY A

                    TRADITIONAL CAMPAIGN ACCOUNT FOLLOWING THE TRADITIONAL EXPENDITURE

                    RULES OF THAT TYPE OF CAMPAIGN.

                                 MS. WALKER:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  OKAY.  VERY GOOD.  AND I JUST

                    WANT TO MAKE SURE I CLARIFY.  SO IT WAS SAID EARLIER THAT IT IS A ONE-TIME

                    ROLLOVER OF -- OF $50,000.  SO IF YOU ROLL IT OVER FROM LAST YEAR TO THIS

                    YEAR HYPOTHETICALLY, YOU GO THROUGH THE CYCLE AND YOU GO ON TO ANOTHER

                    CYCLE, YOU CAN'T ROLL OVER ANOTHER 50,000?  IS THAT AN ACCURATE

                    UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WAS SAID?  OR SINCE IT'S NON-PUBLIC YOU CONTINUE

                    TO ROLL?

                                         62



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. WALKER:  YOU CAN ROLL OVER $50,000 PER CYCLE.

                                 MR. SLATER:  PER CYCLE.

                                 MS. WALKER:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  SO IT'S NOT A ONE-TIME.

                                 MS. WALKER:  IT'S NOT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND SINCE IT'S NON-PUBLIC DOLLARS,

                    THEY'RE NOT DOLLARS PROVIDED BY THE STATE, YOU CONTINUE TO ROLL THOSE IN

                    PERPETUITY REALLY.

                                 MS. WALKER:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.  I

                    APPRECIATE THOSE CLARIFYING QUESTIONS.

                                 IF I COULD, I'D LIKE TO PIVOT, MR. CHAIRMAN, OVER TO

                    SOME OF OUR CORRECTION QUESTIONS.  AND I DO WANT TO THANK MY COLLEGE

                    CHAIR WALKER FOR ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS FOR ME ON -- ON THE

                    ELECTION SIDE, ABSOLUTELY.

                                 SO MR. CHAIRMAN, ON THE BODY-WARN CAMERAS --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  I JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE

                    BIT IF WE COULD.  WAS THIS POLICY DISCUSSED WITH ANY COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING UNITS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M NOT AWARE IF THEY WERE

                    DISCUSSED WITH COLLECTIVE BARGAINING UNITS, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT

                    SHOULD'VE BEEN DONE A LONG TIME AGO, NOTWITHSTANDING ANY COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING.

                                 MR. SLATER:  UNDERSTOOD.  SO DOES DOCCS HAVE

                                         63



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ANY RULES OR REGULATIONS THAT SPEAK TO BODY-WORN CAMERAS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, AT LEAST SOME WERE WEARING

                    BODY CAMERAS ALREADY.  IT'S EVIDENCED BY THE -- THE TAPE [SIC] THAT WERE

                    MADE OF THE MURDER OF MR. BROOKS, BUT THEY WEREN'T ALL REQUIRED TO

                    HAVE THEM ON AS THE SECOND INSTANCE WHERE AN INDIVIDUAL WAS

                    MURDERED IN A PRISON, THE CAMERAS HAPPENED NOT TO BE ON.

                                 MR. SLATER:  SO THEN THERE'S CLEARLY RULES AND REGS

                    THAT ALLOW -- DO WE KNOW IF THE LANGUAGE IN THIS PARTICULAR BILL

                    COMPLIES WITH WHAT'S ALREADY IN PLACE FROM A --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THE LANGUAGE STILL MANDATES

                    THAT THEY WEAR THEIR CAMERAS AND TURNED ON AT ALL TIMES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  SO THERE'S A NEW --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SO -- SO IT'S A LOT MORE EXPANSIVE

                    THAN WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

                                 MR. SLATER:  MORE EXPANSIVE, UNDERSTOOD.  AND SO

                    DOES THE NEW POLICY CONFLICT WITH ANY COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

                    AGREEMENTS WHICH MAY BE IN PLACE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  DID WE REVIEW ANY COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING AGREEMENTS THAT ENSURE THAT THEY WEREN'T IN CONFLICT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DID NOT -- WHAT CONFLICTS ARE YOU

                    REFERRING TO?  WHY --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. SLATER:  WELL, AGAIN, I MEAN MOST OF THE TIME

                                         64



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THESE TYPES OF MATTERS ARE COLLECTIVELY BARGAINED.  AND SO WE'RE

                    MANDATING THAT IT -- INTO PLACE, AND SO THERE ARE ALREADY COLLECTIVE

                    BARGAINING AGREEMENTS IN PLACE, SPECIFICALLY WITH OUR CORRECTION

                    OFFICERS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  SO I'M CURIOUS IF THE IMPLEMENTATION

                    OR THE MANDATE THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN PLACE HERE, IF THAT CONFLICTS WITH

                    ANY OF THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN PLACE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND SO IF SOMEONE DECIDES NOT TO

                    COMPLY, WHAT'S THE CONSEQUENCE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THAT'S UP TO THE -- THE

                    COMMISSIONER, THE SUPERINTENDENT.  IF I WERE IN CHARGE THE PERSON

                    WOULD BE TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY, BUT I'M NOT THE SUPERINTENDENT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  BUT AREN'T THEY PROTECTED UNDER THEIR

                    COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT AS WELL?  IS THERE A DISCIPLINARY --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF THERE ARE MANDATES ON THE,

                    QUOTE-UNQUOTE, UNIFORM THAT THEY ARE WEARING AND THEY REFUSE TO DO

                    THAT, THEN THE REPRIMAND SHOULD BE TERMINATION.

                                 MR. SLATER:  BUT IT'S NOT --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S --

                                 MR. SLATER: -- STIP -- IT'S NOT STIPULATED IN THIS,

                    CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  SO WHATEVER THE CORRECTIVE

                                         65



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ACTIONS THAT ARE UNDER THE CURRENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT,

                    THAT'S WHAT THE, QUOTE-UNQUOTE, PUNISHMENT WOULD BE.

                                 MR. SLATER:  I APPRECIATE THAT.  THANK YOU.

                                 DOES -- DOES THE -- WHAT IS THE PROCUREMENT PROCESS

                    GOING TO LOOK LIKE WHEN IT COMES TO PURCHASING THE CAMERAS?  IS THERE

                    A SPECIFIC VENDOR THAT HAS TO BE UTILIZED SINCE SOME ALREADY ARE

                    UTILIZING THESE CAMERAS?  WILL YOU JUST BE USING THE SAME VENDOR?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE -- THERE IS MONEY IN THE --

                    BEING ALLOCATED --

                                 MR. SLATER:  I'M SORRY -- I'M SORRY, SIR.  I CAN'T --

                    I'M HAVING A HARD TIME HEARING YOU.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  TELL MIKE TO SHUT UP.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 MR. SLATER:  HE'S A LITTLE BIT TALLER THAN ME.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE'S -- THERE'S MONEY IN THE

                    BUDGET THAT WE'RE VOTING ON RIGHT NOW, BUT IT DOESN'T DELINEATE THAT IT'S

                    FOR BODY CAMERAS BUT THAT IS THE INTENTION OF IT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND SO IS THE THOUGHT PROCESS THAT

                    EITHER WE'RE GONNA EXPAND THE CURRENT CONTRACT THAT'S IN PLACE OR ARE WE

                    GONNA HAVE TO REBID?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU MEAN OUR PROCUREMENT

                    CONTRACT?

                                 MR. SLATER:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S NOT REALLY ADDRESSED.  WE

                    JUST HAVE TO PURCHASE THE BODY CAMERAS.

                                         66



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND TO MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR, THIS ONLY

                    APPLIES TO STATE EMPLOYEES, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CORRECTIONS

                    EMPLOYEES?

                                 MR. SLATER:  CORRECTIONS, YES.  STATE CORRECTION

                    EMPLOYEES, YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BUT THERE COULD BE A MANDATE FOR

                    SOME CIVILIANS WHO ALSO WEAR BODY CAMS.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND IS THAT STIPULATED IN THIS

                    LANGUAGE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S -- THE COMMISSIONER DECIDES

                    THAT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  SO DOES THAT PERMISSION OR THAT

                    AUTHORITY, IS THAT PROVIDED WITHIN THIS LANGUAGE OR DOES THAT ALREADY

                    EXIST?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  IT'S PROVIDED HERE TODAY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S IN THE LANGUAGE, YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  UNDERSTOOD.  AND -- AND STILL,

                    BECAUSE WE DO HAVE OTHER UNIONS WHO HAVE MEMBERS IN OUR

                    CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, WOULD THEY HAVE TO BE PART OF THOSE

                    CONVERSATIONS IF THE COMMISSIONER WAS GOING TO MANDATE CIVILIANS

                    WEAR CAMERAS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S REALLY UP TO THE

                    COMMISSIONER TO DETERMINE WHO'S INVOLVED IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

                                         67



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IT'S THE COMMISSIONER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO UPHOLD THE LAW, AND THE LAW IS

                    WEARING BODY CAMS.  THEN IT'S UP TO THE COMMISSIONER IF EITHER HE OR

                    SHE WANTS SOMEONE ELSE TO BE INVOLVED.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND SO JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT I

                    UNDERSTAND, THEN, SO WE'RE SAYING THAT ALL STATE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS

                    MUST WEAR THEM, AND IT'S UP TO THE DISCRETION OF THE COMMISSIONER TO

                    HAVE CIVILIAN EMPLOYEES WEAR THEM?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEAH.

                                 MR. SLATER:  I'M SORRY, SIR?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  YES.  OKAY, GREAT.

                                 AND IT HAS NO IMPACT ON COUNTY CORRECTIONS?  I JUST

                    WANT TO BE CLEAR ON THAT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. SLATER:  NO?  VERY, VERY GOOD.

                                 LET ME JUST SEE IF I HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS HERE.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 IS THERE ANY TYPE OF TRAINING THAT IS REQUIRED FOR THOSE

                    IN ORDER TO WEAR THE BODY CAMERAS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M NOT AWARE IF EXTRA TRAINING IS

                    REQUIRED TO SNAP SOMETHING ON A FIXTURE ON YOUR CHEST AND PUSH A

                    BUTTON TO TURN IT ON.  BUT IF THERE IS EXTRA TRAINING REGARDING THAT, I'M

                    PRETTY SURE IT WILL TAKE PLACE.

                                 MR. SLATER:  I MEAN, SOME OF THE CAMERAS ARE A BIT

                    NUANCED, IS MY UNDERSTANDING.  SO SOME HAVE, LIKE, A 30-SECOND DELAY,

                                         68



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SOME HAVE LIKE A MUTE COMPONENT TO IT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK) DEFINITELY

                    BE INFORMED HOW TO OPERATE THE CAMERAS FULLY.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND THEN, AGAIN, BECAUSE HAVING SEEN

                    SOME OF THIS IMPLEMENTED ELSEWHERE, USUALLY THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

                    UNIT IS PART OF THAT DISCUSSION.  SO IF WE'RE SAYING THEY HAVE TO DO THIS,

                    ARE THEY GONNA BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION ON IMPLEMENTATION?

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU KEEP BRINGING UP THE

                    COLLECTIVE BARGAINING UNIT.  I THINK WE'RE DEALING WITH THE HEALTH AND

                    SAFETY OF BOTH INMATES AND CORRECTION OFFICERS --

                                 MR. SLATER:  NO QUESTION.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  -- AND THIS SHOULDN'T BE BARGAINED

                    AWAY AND SHOULDN'T BE USED AS A TRADING ITEM AT A BARGAINING SESSION TO

                    GET MORE RENUMERATION [SIC] FOR THEIR WORK OR WHATEVER.  THIS SHOULD

                    NOT BE SOMETHING THAT'S BARGAINABLE.

                                 MR. SLATER:  SO -- I'M SORRY, SO YOU'RE SAYING --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IN MY OPINION,

                                 MR. SLATER:  -- THAT IN YOUR OPINION, BODY-WORN

                    CAMERAS SHOULD NOT BE SOMETHING THAT'S COLLECTIVELY BARGAINED BY

                    UNION LEADERSHIP?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  I TEND TO DISAGREE, BUT THAT'S

                    OKAY.

                                 I JUST -- SO AGAIN, JUST ON THE TRAINING SIDE.  SO THERE'S

                                         69



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    NO MANDATED TRAINING, THERE'S NO TRAINING THAT'S GOING TO BE PROVIDED

                    UNLESS IT'S ORCHESTRATED BY THE COMMISSIONER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SAY IT AGAIN, PLEASE.

                                 MR. SLATER:  ON THE TRAINING SIDE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEAH.

                                 MR. SLATER:  SO IT'S NOT MANDATED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. SLATER:  WE ARE UNSURE IF TRAINING IS GOING TO

                    BE PROVIDED AT THIS POINT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE USE -- THE USE OF BODY

                    CAMERAS?

                                 MR. SLATER:  YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M PRETTY SURE THEY WILL BE TRAINED

                    ON HOW TO USE THEM.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THEY

                    SHOULD BE TRAINED ON.

                                 MR. SLATER:  VERY GOOD.  WELL, AGAIN, I APPRECIATE

                    THE TIME IN ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.  LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING MORE

                    DIALOGUE THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS.

                                 THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.  THANK YOU,

                    MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. ANGELINO.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I

                                         70



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THINK ALL OF MY QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED BY MY

                    COLLEAGUES.  SO TAKE A BREAK, CHAIR, AND I'LL JUST GO ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. ANGELINO:  SPECIFICALLY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

                    SECTION OO, THE PUBLIC FINANCE CAMPAIGN PORTION.  I WAS HERE WHEN

                    THAT BILL WAS ORIGINALLY PASSED FIVE YEARS AGO, AND I KNEW BACK THEN IT

                    WAS A BAD BILL.  I VOTED NO, AND I KNEW IT WAS GONNA BE RIPE FOR

                    CHANGES AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING.  IT'S ONLY GETTING WORSE.

                                 ORIGINALLY, WE PASSED THIS TO ENCOURAGE SMALL

                    DONATIONS TO HELP A GRASSROOTS CANDIDATE CHALLENGE AN INCUMBENT.  AND

                    THAT'S WHAT THE LAW WENT INTO EFFECT TWO CYCLES AGO.  AND I THINK SOME

                    OF THE INCUMBENTS SAW WHAT HAPPENED AND THEY REALIZED, HOLY COW,

                    THE -- THE PLAYING FIELD REALLY IS LEVEL BECAUSE WE ALMOST GOT OUR

                    BUTTOCKS KICKED.  ONCE THAT REACTION HAPPENED, THE -- THE BILL DROPPED I

                    THINK AT THE LAST CYCLE.  BOOM, NOW WE'RE GOING TO LET LARGER -- LARGER

                    DONATIONS COME IN FROM OTHER PEOPLE.  LUCKILY OUR GOVERNOR VETOED

                    THAT AND THAT WAS A SMART THING TO DO.  AND I DON'T KNOW WHY SHE

                    NEGOTIATED THIS IN NOW BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY WORSE THAN WHAT THAT

                    CHANGE WAS GONNA DO.

                                 I DON'T PARTAKE IN THIS PROGRAM THAT I CALL "WELFARE FOR

                    POLITICIANS."  LAST CYCLE I HAD AN OPPONENT WHO DID PARTAKE IN

                    PUBLICLY-FINANCED CAMPAIGN.  AND I'M NO RONALD REAGAN, BUT HERE I

                    AM RIGHT NOW.

                                 IN THIS WHOLE BIG CATALOG OF REASONS A TAXPAYER CAN

                    HATE A POLITICIAN, WE'VE JUST ADDED ANOTHER PAGE.  I KNOW MEMBERS

                                         71



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE USE THIS AND I KNOW THERE ARE MEMBERS

                    FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE WHO DO NOT, AND FOR THEM I'M GRATEFUL AND

                    I APPRECIATE IT.  THE CHANGES THAT WE'RE PROPOSING NOW ARE ONLY GONNA

                    HELP INCUMBENTS.  IT'S NOT GOING TO ENCOURAGE CHALLENGERS.  IT'S NOT LIKE

                    CHALLENGERS ARE SPROUTING LIKE GERANIUMS AROUND US, AND THIS IS

                    ACTUALLY GONNA DISCOURAGE ANYONE ELSE.  THOSE WHO DO USE THIS FROM

                    BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, I'VE TALKED TO THEM AND THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT

                    HOW CUMBERSOME THE RULES ARE, HOW THE -- EVERYTHING IS SCRUTINIZED,

                    HOW DIFFICULT IT IS, AND I FEAR THAT IN THE FUTURE THOSE ARE THE NEXT

                    CHANGES.  WE'RE JUST GONNA MAKE IT EASIER TO SPEND TAXPAYER DOLLARS SO

                    THAT WE CAN KEEP OUR SEATS.

                                 AND TO ECHO MY FIRST COMMENTS, I KNEW THIS WAS A

                    BAD BILL TO BEGIN WITH YEARS AGO.  BUT WHEN I READ THE CHANGES, I GOT TO

                    TELL YOU, I -- I HAD A LITTLE TROUBLE KEEPING MY FROSTED MINI WHEATS

                    DOWN THIS MORNING WHEN I WAS READING THIS.  BUT I JUST CAN'T WAIT FOR

                    THE AUDITS TO BEGIN.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. REILLY.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE CHAIRMAN YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                         72



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. PRETLOW.

                                 SO I'D LIKE TO TURN TO PART NN, CIVIL COURT AND COURT OF

                    CLAIMS JUDGES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SPECIFICALLY, I'M QUESTIONING HOW

                    MANY JUDGES ARE BEING INCLUDED IN NEW YORK CITY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE ARE TEN.

                                 MR. REILLY:  TEN.  AND WHAT'S THE BREAKDOWN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE -- I BELIEVE THEY'RE CIVIL COURT

                    JUDGES.  YOU MEAN THE BREAKDOWN IN THE -- COUNTY BY COUNTY?

                                 MR. REILLY:  YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  TWO -- TWO IN THE BRONX,

                    THREE IN KINGS COUNTY, ONE IN NEW YORK COUNTY, TWO IN QUEENS AND

                    ONE IN STATEN ISLAND.

                                 MR. REILLY:  HOW MANY IN NEW YORK COUNTY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  TWO.

                                 MR. REILLY:  TWO?  OKAY.  SO STATEN ISLAND,

                    RICHMOND COUNTY GETS ONE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ONE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  CAN YOU TELL ME HOW THEY

                    CAME ABOUT THE ALLOCATIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S A COMBINATION OF NEED AND

                    POPULATION.

                                 MR. REILLY:  NEED AND POPULATION.  SO --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEAH, THE ACTUAL DETERMINATION WAS

                                         73



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MADE BY THE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.  SO PIGGYBACKING OFF THE SAME

                    CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD IN THE LAST BUDGET SEASON, WE HAD 12 JUDGES

                    APPOINTED TO NEW YORK CITY IN CIVIL COURT, RIGHT?  THOSE SEATS WERE

                    ESTABLISHED.  AND ZERO WENT TO STATEN ISLAND, RICHMOND COUNTY.  THIS

                    BUDGET SEASON WE HAVE TEN, AND ONE IS GOING TO STATEN ISLAND.  THE

                    REASON WHY I BRING THAT UP IS BECAUSE SOME OF THE -- ONE THING THAT YOU

                    JUST MENTIONED IS BASED ON NEED AND VOLUME.  SO THE LAST CIVIL COURT

                    SEAT THAT WAS ESTABLISHED IN RICHMOND COUNTY WAS IN 1968.  IN 1968

                    STATEN ISLAND HAD APPROXIMATELY 300,000 PEOPLE.  WE CURRENTLY HAVE A

                    POPULATION OF JUST UNDER 500,000.  AND THE REASON WHY I BRING THAT UP

                    IS, OUT OF 100 -- APPROXIMATELY 140 CIVIL COURT JUDGES IN NEW YORK

                    CITY, STATEN ISLAND ONLY GETS 3 PERCENT OF THOSE JUDGES WHILE THEY

                    REPRESENT 6 PERCENT OF NEW YORK CITY.  SO THE DISPARITY IS ONLY GONNA

                    BE HEIGHTENED BY ADDING ONLY ONE SEAT SINCE WE WERE LEFT OUT LAST YEAR.

                    IS THERE A WAY WE CAN REMEDY THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE ADMINISTRATION -- YOU KNOW,

                    THE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION IS THE ULTIMATE RULER ON HOW JUDGES

                    ARE DISBURSED AND WHERE THEY SHOULD BE PLACED.  WE DON'T REALLY DO

                    THAT LEGISLATION.  LEGISLATIVELY, WE, YOU KNOW, BACK UP WHAT THE OCA

                    HAS SAID.  THEY CAN -- STATEN ISLAND'S -- RICHMOND COUNTY CAN MAKE A

                    REQUEST AND HOPEFULLY THE CHIEF JUDGE MAKES THE DECISION IN THE FAVOR

                    OF RICHMOND COUNTY.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO, WE DID MAKE THAT REQUEST LAST --

                    AFTER LAST YEAR'S BUDGET.  WE WROTE A BIPARTISAN LETTER TO THE GOVERNOR'S

                                         74



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OFFICE, TO OCA, AND WE INDICATED WHY THAT NEED IS NECESSARY.  AND

                    I'M WONDERING IF THAT DISCUSSION HAPPENED DURING THIS BUDGET

                    NEGOTIATION.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I THINK THE RESPONSE TO YOUR

                    LETTER LAST YEAR WAS FRUITFUL SINCE YOU'RE GETTING A JUDGE THIS YEAR.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO YOU MENTIONED THE NUMBERS AND

                    THE VOLUME OF CASES.  SO I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU SOME OF THE DATA FOR

                    VOLUMES OF CASES AND I'D LIKE TO GET YOUR INPUT ON THAT.

                                 SO IN 2024, NEW YORK COUNTY HAD 25,247 CASES FILED

                    IN CIVIL COURT.  KINGS, 20,902; QUEENS COUNTY, 21,129; BRONX COUNTY,

                    36,362; AND RICHMOND COUNTY HAD 30,417 CASES FILED, WHICH IS ON PAR

                    WITH THE REST OF THE BOROUGHS, RIGHT, WITH THE REST OF THE COUNTIES.  IN

                    FACT, QUEENS COUNTY HAD 9,000 LESS.  KINGS COUNTY HAD 10,000 LESS,

                    AND EVEN NEW YORK COUNTY HAD 5,000 CASES LESS THAN RICHMOND

                    COUNTY CIVIL COURT CASES FILED.

                                 SO THE REASON WHY I BRING THOSE NUMBERS UP -- AND

                    THAT'S JUST 2024.  IF WE GO BACK TO 2023, WE HAVE NEW YORK COUNTY AT

                    64,000, KINGS COUNTY AT 110,000, QUEENS COUNTY AT 75,000, AND

                    BRONX COUNTY AT 95,000 AND RICHMOND COUNTY AT 66,000.  WHICH IS

                    ON PAR, RICHMOND COUNTY, EXACTLY WITH NEW YORK COUNTY.

                                 SO GIVEN THE VOLUME AND THE INCREASE IN POPULATION

                    SINCE 1968, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ANOTHER JUDICIAL SEAT WOULD BE

                    RECOMMENDED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION AND

                    BASED ON THE STATISTICS THAT YOU JUST RECITED, I THINK THAT YOU HAVE A

                                         75



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    GOOD CASE TO PRESENT BEFORE THE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO, MOVING A LITTLE FURTHER INTO IT, I

                    NOTICED THAT THERE'S CERTAIN MUNICIPAL COURT DISTRICTS THAT ARE ASSIGNED

                    THESE SEATS.  FOR EXAMPLE, BRONX COUNTY HAS ONE GOING TO THE ELECTED

                    FIRST MUNICIPAL COURT DISTRICT.  THE SECOND ONE GOING TO THE SECOND

                    MUNICIPAL COURT DISTRICT IN BRONX COUNTY.  IN NEW YORK COUNTY, THE

                    FOURTH MUNICIPAL COURT DISTRICT AND THE SIXTH MUNICIPAL AND THE

                    SEVENTH MUNICIPAL.  SO ALL THE COUNTIES HAVE A SPECIFIC MUNICIPAL

                    DISTRICT THAT IT'S BEING ASSIGNED TO.  IN RICHMOND COUNTY, THE ONE SEAT

                    IS GOING TO THE FIRST MUNICIPAL COURT DISTRICT.  DO YOU -- CAN YOU TELL

                    ME HOW THAT DISTRICT WAS SELECTED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I THINK THAT'S BASED ON THE NUMBER

                    OF ARRESTS IN THE DISTRICT.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THE NUMBER OF WHAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ARRESTS.

                                 MR. REILLY:  WELL, THIS IS CIVIL COURT SEATS.  SO WE

                    -- DID WE USE A CRIMINAL COURT ARREST TO DETERMINE WHERE THESE COURT

                    SEATS WERE GOING?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS THE BASIS THAT'S USED TO

                    DETERMINE, YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO THEY WENT BY WHERE THE NUMBER OF

                    ARRESTS WERE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S WHAT I'M TOLD, YES.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO CAN YOU TELL ME, IF IT'S BY WHERE

                    THE NUMBER OF ARRESTS ARE, WHERE IS THE THIRD MUNICIPAL COURT DISTRICT

                                         76



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    AND THE SEVENTH MUNICIPAL COURT DISTRICT IN NEW YORK COUNTY, SO WE

                    CAN DETERMINE WHERE THOSE ARRESTS WERE MADE IN COMPARISON TO

                    RICHMOND COUNTY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'LL HAVE TO GET THAT INFORMATION FOR

                    YOU.  I DON'T HAVE IT AT HAND.

                                 MR. REILLY:  OKAY.

                                 CAN YOU TELL ME WHY THEY WERE USING -- WHY THE --

                    THAT DATA ON ARRESTS WAS USED TO CREATE CIVIL COURT CASES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AS I STATED EARLIER -- AS I STATED

                    EARLIER, THIS WAS ALL DETERMINED BY THE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION

                    WHICH IS LED BY SOME FINE JURISTS, AND THEY MUST HAVE THEIR REASONS FOR

                    MAKING THE SELECTIONS IN THE MANNER THAT THEY DO.  WE'RE JUST

                    APPROVING WHAT THEY'VE RECOMMENDED THAT WE APPROVE.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO USING ARREST RECORDS FOR CIVIL COURT

                    SEATS WHEN WE SEE THAT THE COURT FILINGS FOR CIVIL COURT ACTIONS DON'T

                    CORRELATE WITH HOW MANY SEATS WERE DESIGNATED, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE

                    CAN MOVE FORWARD AND AMEND THIS TO ALLOW ADDITIONAL CIVIL COURT SEATS

                    IN RICHMOND COUNTY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I IMAGINE YOU CAN PUT IN A

                    BILL TO MAKE THAT REQUEST.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO, A BILL -- BILL WAS SUBMITTED LAST

                    YEAR FOR SIMILAR REASONS AND IT DIDN'T MOVE, AND I FIGURED SINCE WE ARE

                    TALKING ABOUT POLICY AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUNDING SEATS IN THIS

                    BUDGET, THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.  I WOULD'VE -- I WOULD'VE

                    BEEN ABLE TO POSSIBLY INTRODUCE A BILL IF I ACTUALLY SAW THIS LEGISLATION

                                         77



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IN TIME, BUT GIVEN HOW THE BUDGET PROCESS HAS EVOLVED THIS TIME WE

                    REALLY DIDN'T IT 'TIL YESTERDAY OR EVEN THIS MORNING.  SO WOULD THERE BE

                    AN OPPORTUNITY TO AMEND THIS MOVING FORWARD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NOT IN THIS CURRENT BUDGET.

                                 MR. REILLY:  THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. REILLY:  ONCE AGAIN, WE TALK ABOUT EQUITY IN

                    THIS CHAMBER AND THE CHAMBER NEXT DOOR, AND WE DON'T HAVE EQUITY.

                    THE NUMBERS THAT I STATED TO YOU ARE FACTS.  YOU CAN LOOK THEM UP ON

                    OCS' WEBSITE.  THE NEED IS THERE.  THE SAD REALITY IS THE REASON WHY

                    CERTAIN MUNICIPAL DISTRICTS WERE CHOSEN IS PROBABLY BASED ON

                    REGISTRATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. LAVINE, WHY DO

                    YOU RISE?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WILL THE SPEAKER YIELD?

                                 MR. REILLY:  YES, I WILL, SIR.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MR. REILLY, YOU DO UNDERSTAND, YOU

                    DO APPRECIATE THAT THERE IS A BACKLOG IN TERMS OF HANDLING CRIMINAL

                    COURT CASES IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK.  CERTAINLY YOU AGREE WITH THAT, DO

                    YOU NOT?

                                 MR. REILLY:  SURE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  SO OCA IS REQUESTING CIVIL COURT

                    JUDGES.  NOW, DO YOU KNOW WHAT CIVIL COURT JUDGES HAVE THE AUTHORITY

                    TO DO?

                                         78



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. REILLY:  THEY CAN SIT IN, YES, CRIMINAL COURT.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND WHERE CAN THEY SIT?

                                 MR. REILLY:  IN CRIMINAL COURT.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND WHERE ELSE CAN THEY SIT?

                                               (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. REILLY:  CIVIL COURTS.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  HOW ABOUT FAMILY COURT?

                                 MR. REILLY:  IN FAMILY COURT.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  SO THAT'S THE REASON.  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO (INDISCERNIBLE) -- SO, MR. LAVINE

                    WAS THAT DESIGNATE -- WILL YOU YIELD FOR A QUESTION?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I'M NOT IN A POSITION TO YIELD, BUT IF

                    YOU WANT TO ASK ME SOMETHING THROUGH THE -- THROUGH THE SPEAKER

                    THAT'S COOL WITH ME, MIKE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  YES.  THROUGH THE

                    SPEAKER YOU MAY ASK AND ANSWER QUESTIONS.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO THE -- THE QUESTION I HAVE IS LAST

                    YEAR'S BUDGET THEY DESIGNATED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO SIT IN FAMILY

                    COURT.  THIS BUDGET DOESN'T SEEM TO SAY THAT; AM I CORRECT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  BUT WE STILL NEED THEM.  CIVIL COURT

                    JUDGES CAN BE APPOINTED THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM TO SERVE ANYWHERE

                    IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK WHEN IT COMES TO CIVIL COURT, CRIMINAL COURT

                    OR FAMILY COURT.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO ARE THESE --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE THE

                                         79



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    BACKLOG, AND THAT'S WHY OCA WANTS THIS.

                                 MR. REILLY:  I UNDERSTAND THAT.  SO MY QUESTION IS,

                    THOUGH, IF WE TALK ABOUT EQUITY FOR ALL NEW YORKERS, WOULDN'T THE NEED

                    TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE THOSE JUDGES EQUALLY DISBURSED?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MICHAEL, DO YOU NOT APPRECIATE THAT A

                    JUDGE ELECTED IN THE FIRST DISTRICT IN THE BRONX, FOR EXAMPLE, CAN BE

                    SENT ANYWHERE IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK, ANYWHERE THE COURTS

                    DETERMINE THERE'S A NEED?

                                 MR. REILLY:  YES.  BUT WOULDN'T YOU -- WOULDN'T

                    YOU APPRECIATE THAT MEMBERS IN A COUNTY IN NEW YORK STATE SHOULD

                    HAVE A JUDGE THAT'S ELECTED BY THEM REPRESENTING THEM?  WOULDN'T THAT

                    -- ISN'T THAT THE SPIRIT --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THERE'S --

                                 MR. REILLY:  ISN'T THAT THE SPIRIT OF OUR ELECTIONS FOR

                    JUDGES?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  HAVING SPENT 30-PLUS YEARS IN THE

                    COURTS, MANY OF THEM IN THE CRIMINAL COURTS OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, I

                    COULD HAVE CARED LESS WHERE THOSE JUDGES CAME FROM.  WHAT BOTHERED

                    ME WAS NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE A CASE CALLED UNTIL 5:00 OR 6:00 OR 7:00

                    AT NIGHT.  THIS IS THE DIRE CHALLENGE OUR COURT SYSTEM FACES TODAY.  AND

                    WHILE I UNDERSTAND THE NARROW VIEW THAT WE WANT TO HAVE JUDGES

                    ELECTED IN, YOU KNOW, FROM YOUR STREET OR FROM YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, THE

                    CHALLENGE WE FACE IS INFINITELY GREATER TODAY.  AND I THINK THAT WE HAVE

                    TO MEET THAT CHALLENGE, AND WE MEET THAT CHALLENGE BY WORKING WITH

                    THE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION AND DOING WHAT OCA WANTS.  FAIR

                                         80



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ENOUGH?

                                 MR. REILLY:  FAIR ENOUGH.  THANK YOU, MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YOU'RE WELCOME, MICHAEL.

                                 MR. REILLY:  ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. REILLY:  SO, GIVEN MY LAST EXCHANGE WE

                    LOOKED AT 12 JUDGES WERE GIVEN LAST YEAR TO FOUR COUNTIES IN NEW YORK

                    CITY; RICHMOND COUNTY NOT BEING ONE.  THIS YEAR THERE ARE TEN JUDGES;

                    ONE TO RICHMOND COUNTY.  SO IF YOU'RE KEEPING SCORE, I BELIEVE THAT IS

                    ABOUT 21 TO ONE.  HOW IS THAT EQUITABLE?  HOW?  EQUITY, EQUITY, EQUITY.

                    I'M SORRY, BUT THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO THIS THAN PLAYING POLITICS.  AND

                    THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE REASON WHY THERE ARE SPECIFIC MUNICIPAL COURT

                    DISTRICTS ASSIGNED FOR THESE ELECTED POSITIONS.  MAKE NO MISTAKE, WE

                    WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT AS STATEN ISLAND, AS RICHMOND COUNTY AS ONE,

                    BECAUSE WE WANT OUR FAIR SHARE.  AND YES, WE'RE GETTING ONE JUDGE AND

                    I GUESS WE SHOULD TAKE OUR BONE AND JUST SAY THANK YOU.  BUT THAT'S NOT

                    WHAT WE DO.  WE CONTINUE TO FIGHT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THE JUDGES

                    THAT WE DESERVE.  BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, LAST YEAR'S JUDGES, I

                    DON'T THINK ANYBODY WAS ASSIGNED TO STATEN ISLAND.  SO THAT ARGUMENT

                    THAT ANYONE FROM OTHER BOROUGHS CAN BE ASSIGNED THERE ARE NOT.  THAT

                    FELL ON DEAF EARS.

                                 SO MOVING FORWARD, I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

                    HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOUR COUNTY SUFFERED THE SAME INJUSTICE EACH

                    AND EVERY BUDGET SEASON?  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                         81



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MAHER.

                                 MR. MAHER:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. MAHER:  THANK YOU, SIR.

                                 I WANTED TO ALSO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT OUR CORRECTIONS,

                    AND I KNOW THAT WE HAVE A 4,000 CORRECTION OFFICERS SHORTAGE.  WE

                    TALKED ABOUT A 2,500 NUMBER GETTING US TO 90 PERCENT.  I'M JUST MAKING

                    AN ASSUMPTION, THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY OF THE MILITARY PERSONNEL THAT

                    WE HAVE IN THAT 90 PERCENT THRESHOLD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, IT DOES NOT.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  SO THE GOAL WOULD BE,

                    THEORETICALLY, TO STAFF UP ENOUGH TO MINIMIZE ALMOST HOPEFULLY TO ZERO

                    AT SOME POINT, THE MILITARY PRESENCE OF THE NATIONAL GUARD.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS OUR INTENTION, YES.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  SO WHY ARE WE, THROUGH

                    CORRECTIONS AND WITH THE NATIONAL GUARD, PROMOTING ENTERING THE

                    NATIONAL GUARD FOR SPECIAL DUTY IN CORRECTION FACILITIES WHILE LOWERING

                    THE AGE AND COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER FOR PERSONNEL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  REPEAT THAT, PLEASE?

                                 MR. MAHER:  CURRENTLY THERE ARE ADVERTISEMENTS TO

                                         82



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    JOIN THE NATIONAL GUARD SPECIFICALLY TO WORK IN SPECIAL DUTY IN PRISONS

                    IN NEW YORK STATE RIGHT NOW.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I HAVE NOT SEEN THOSE ADS, AND I

                    DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S A SPECIFIC DUTY OF THE NATIONAL GUARD.  THE

                    GOVERNOR HAS ENLISTED THE NATIONAL GUARD TO HELP FILL THE SHORTAGE OF

                    CORRECTION OFFICERS, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT -- THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT A

                    LONG-TERM GOAL.  THE LONG-TERM GOAL IS TO PUT PERMANENT EMPLOYEES AT

                    EACH OF THE FACILITIES.  AND THE NATIONAL GUARD IS ACTUALLY PRETTY

                    EXPENSIVE.  IF YOU -- YOU VOTED ON A NUMBER OF EXTENDERS THIS YEAR TO

                    PAY THE NATIONAL GUARD AND IT WAS TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.  WE

                    REALLY DON'T WANT TO CONTINUE DOING THAT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE

                    PREPARED TO DO WHAT THEY MAY HAVE TO DO, THAT'S NOT WHAT THEIR CALLING

                    IS.  NATIONAL GUARDS ARE NOT FULL-TIME SOLDIERS, THEY'RE GENERALLY PEOPLE

                    LIKE MAYBE SOME MEMBERS IN THIS HOUSE, AND THEY HAVE OTHER JOBS AND

                    THEY'VE BEEN CALLED TO ACTIVE DUTY TO HELP FILL A NEED FOR THE STATE RIGHT

                    NOW.

                                 MR. MAHER:  WE'RE IN AGREEMENT.  WOULD YOU

                    AGREE THAT THOSE TWO THINGS WOULD THEN BE IN CONFLICT WITH THE STATE

                    PROMOTING CORRECTION OFFICERS --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF THEY'RE RUNNING ADS, I WOULD SAY

                    ABSOLUTELY.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  THANK YOU FOR THAT.

                                 WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE 90 PERCENT, DOES THAT

                    THRESHOLD STEM FROM THE BFL?  THE -- THAT'S PRONOUNCED BFL.  IT IS

                    SPECIFICALLY -- ONE SECOND.  THE BUDGET FILL LEVEL.  IS THAT WHERE THE 90

                                         83



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PERCENT THRESHOLD COMES FROM?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S JUST A THRESHOLD THAT WE CAME

                    UP WITH -- ACTUALLY, IT'S AN ARBITRARY NUMBER.  WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET TO

                    90 PERCENT AND THEN WE CAN FILL NORMALLY.  BUT RIGHT NOW THE SHORTAGE

                    IS SO BIG THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE DRASTIC ACTIONS TO GET THE COMPLEMENT OF

                    INDIVIDUALS UP TO A STAFFING LEVEL THAT WE THINK IS SAFE.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  THAT'S VERY CONFUSING.  SO

                    THERE IS AN EXISTING PROCESS THAT'S REFERRED TO AS THE "BUDGET FILL LEVEL"

                    IN EACH FACILITY THAT DICTATES WHAT A SAFE WORKING ENVIRONMENT IS BASED

                    ON STAFFING.  SO WE'RE NOT USING THAT SPECIFIC BFL TO DETERMINE THE 90

                    PERCENT; IS THAT ACCURATE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS IS WHAT THE -- THE NUMBERS

                    THAT WE'RE USING NOW WERE PROVIDED TO US BY THE EXECUTIVE IN -- IN THIS

                    BUDGET, AND WE'RE JUST -- WE'RE AGREEING WITH WHAT SHE'S DETERMINED THE

                    NEED TO BE.  I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE CRITERIA WAS IN CALCULATING WHAT THE

                    SHORTAGE IS.  I ONLY KNOW THAT WE NEED A FULLER COMPLEMENT OF

                    CORRECTION OFFICERS TO KEEP ALL PARTIES CONCERNED IN SAFE CONDITIONS.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  BUT UNDERSTANDING THAT

                    NUMBER OF 2,500 OR 4,000, 90 PERCENT CAME FROM THE EXECUTIVE OFFICE,

                    IT OUGHT TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE CREATING REPORTS

                    THAT GET US TO A CERTAIN THRESHOLD.  DON'T WE HAVE TO KNOW WHAT THAT

                    THRESHOLD IS, AND SHOULD -- SHOULDN'T THERE BE A LEVEL OF SCIENTIFIC DATA

                    TO DETERMINE WHAT THAT THRESHOLD IS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OH, ABSOLUTELY.  AND I'M PRETTY

                    SURE THAT THE SUPERVISOR [SIC] OF THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS USED

                                         84



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHAT CRITERIA HE NEEDED TO COME WITH THE NUMBERS THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY

                    VOTING ON.

                                 MR. MAHER:  SO IT'S POSSIBLE THIS DID COME FROM

                    THAT BFL THAT FACILITIES CURRENTLY USE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S PROBABLE THAT IT CAME FROM

                    THERE.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  I WANT TO TOUCH ON

                    WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT.  SO WHEN IT COMES TO THE BFL, ONE QUESTION I

                    WOULD HAVE IS CURRENTLY, ALTHOUGH WE ARE IN A STAFFING CRISIS, A SEVERE

                    STAFFING CRISIS, ARE WE AT 100 PERCENT RECREATION IN OUR STATE PRISONS OR

                    ARE THERE STILL PROGRAMS THAT ARE NOT BEING RUN DUE TO STAFFING LEVELS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT.  I ONLY KNOW

                    THAT WE HAVE A SHORTAGE OF CORRECTION OFFICERS.  I'M NOT SURE WHICH

                    AREAS THAT SHORTAGE IS IN.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  THAT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT,

                    ESPECIALLY AS PART OF THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE THE BFL IS ADJUSTED BASED

                    ON RECREATION AND OTHER ACTIVITIES.  SO IF A CERTAIN FACILITY IS TRYING TO

                    CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT TO PROTECT OUR INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS, THOSE

                    THAT ARE TRYING TO REINTEGRATE INTO SOCIETY AND GET A BETTER QUALITY OF

                    LIFE, WE WOULD NEED TO INCREASE THE BFL.  SO IS THAT GOING TO BE

                    CONSIDERED WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE 90 PERCENT THRESHOLD?  AND IF IT IS,

                    I THINK IT'S EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAT WHAT MY COLLEAGUE BROUGHT UP IS

                    AFTER YOU HIT 90 PERCENT WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THOSE REPORTS

                    BECAUSE PRIOR TO JANUARY OF THIS YEAR, WE WERE LOSING 54 CORRECTION

                    OFFICERS EVERY TWO WEEKS THROUGH ATTRITION.  SO WOULD YOU AGREE THAT IT

                                         85



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO CONTINUE REPORTING EVEN AFTER WE HIT THAT 90

                    PERCENT THRESHOLD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I WOULD AGREE IT IS IMPORTANT,

                    BUT NONE OF THAT IS CONTAINED IN THIS BILL.

                                 MR. MAHER:  FAIR ENOUGH.  THANK YOU FOR THAT

                    ANSWER.  OKAY.

                                 SO IT WAS BROUGHT UP THAT THERE WERE NO DISCUSSIONS

                    WITH THE BARGAINING UNIT, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  WHEN IT COMES TO

                    18-YEAR-OLDS BEGINNING TO WORK IN SPECIFIC ENVIRONMENTS, IS THERE ANY

                    KNOWLEDGE OF IF THAT'S GOING TO BE IN CONFLICT WITH THE APPROVED UNION

                    CONTRACT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE SOME

                    OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT I'VE HAD SEEM TO -- SEEM TO SAY THAT IT ACTUALLY

                    WILL AND POTENTIALLY COULD HAVE SOME PUSHBACK BECAUSE SOME OF THOSE

                    DUTIES THAT SOME OF THESE YOUNGER OFFICERS WOULD BE PERFORMING, SOME

                    OF THEM ARE SPECIFIC TO SENIORITY AND THERE COULD BE SOME ISSUES WITH

                    MORALE.  AND I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF THOSE CONVERSATIONS CAME UP WHILE

                    THIS BUDGET WAS BEING PUT TOGETHER, WHILE THIS LANGUAGE WAS BEING PUT

                    TOGETHER IN THE BUDGET.

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS CORRECT, BUT

                    MY -- WHAT I THINK AND WHAT I KNOW IS THAT THERE ARE ENOUGH VACANCIES

                                         86



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THAT THAT WON'T BE THE CASE WHERE JOBS THAT ARE BASED ON SENIORITY WILL

                    BE REPLACED BY 18- TO 21-YEAR-OLDS.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  AND I JUST WANT TO CLEAR

                    SOMETHING UP FOR THE RECORD.  SO WHEN IT COMES TO 18-YEAR-OLDS, FOR

                    THE FIRST 18 MONTHS THEY CANNOT HAVE CONTACT WITH INCARCERATED

                    INDIVIDUALS UNLESS THEY ARE SUPERVISED, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. MAHER:  SO AFTER 18 MONTHS, SOME OF WHOM

                    MAY STILL BE 18 YEARS OLD, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO, ON THEIR OWN, BE IN

                    CONTACT SITUATIONS WITH INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU REALLY STILL CAN'T BE 18 YEARS

                    OLD 18 MONTHS AFTER YOU'RE (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK) --

                                 MR. MAHER:  SORRY, 19, 19.  YOU'RE RIGHT.  I MEANT

                    -- I MEAN TO SAY 19, I APOLOGIZE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU CAN BE 19 1/2 (INDISCERNIBLE/

                    CROSSTALK).

                                 MR. MAHER:  THERE YOU GO.  SO YOU'D STILL BE A

                    TEENAGER IS MY POINT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, YOU WILL STILL BE A TEENAGER --

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  -- AND THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE

                    IN THE COMPANY OF SUPERVISORS.

                                 MR. MAHER:  THEY WOULDN'T AFTER 18 MONTHS,

                    THOUGH.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  PARDON?

                                         87



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. MAHER:  AFTER 18 MONTHS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I MISSPOKE.  NOT AFTER 18 -- YES,

                    THEY WILL NOT HAVE TO.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR

                    THAT AFTER 18 MONTHS OF BEING ON THE JOB, STILL POTENTIALLY BEING A

                    TEENAGER EVEN THOUGH 19 1/2, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO INTERFACE WITH

                    INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS IN THOSE ENVIRONMENTS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 WHEN IT COMES TO SOME OF THE STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN

                    DONE, IT DOES SEEM LIKE THERE ARE INCREASED ASSAULTS IN STATES

                    THROUGHOUT THIS COUNTRY.  WE'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN IN MARYLAND AND OTHER

                    STATES, TEXAS.  AND SOME OF THOSE ASSAULTS, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S -- IT'S A

                    PERCEPTION OF WEAKNESS AND THEN THE HIGHER TURNOVER.  WERE THERE ANY

                    CONCERNS ABOUT OUR EXISTING TURNOVER ISSUES AND AMPLIFYING THOSE

                    TURNOVER ISSUES BY HAVING THOSE 18 TO 21?  I KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT TO GET

                    BODIES IN, BUT WAS THERE SOME SUSTAINABLE LONG-TERM IMPACTS THAT WERE

                    DISCUSSED DURING THESE NEGOTIATIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF THERE WERE, I WAS NOT PART OF

                    THOSE DISCUSSIONS.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.

                                 WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE STAFFING ISSUES, WAS IT -- AND

                    WE TALKED ABOUT THE CAMERAS AND SOME OF THE OTHER TOPICS THAT ARE

                    POLICY-RELATED, WERE THE ONGOING EXPOSURES THAT WERE TAKING PLACE

                    WITHIN OUR PRISONS AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR

                                         88



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    COS, CIVILIAN STAFFING, INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS, WAS ANY OF THAT

                    BROUGHT UP FROM A POLICY STANDPOINT WHILE NEGOTIATING THE BUDGET, AND

                    WAS THAT CONSIDERED TO BE PUT IN HERE IN CERTAIN REMEDIES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.  I -- I'M TRYING TO WORK THROUGH

                    MY HEAD WHAT YOU HAD -- WHAT YOU HAD JUST SAID.

                                 MR. MAHER:  SO THERE HAD BEEN OVER THE LAST WEEK

                    ALONE IN MY DISTRICT THERE'S NEARLY A DOZEN EXPOSURES FROM DRUGS THAT

                    ARE BEING BROUGHT INTO SOME OF THESE FACILITIES, AND THERE HAVE BEEN

                    CORRECTION OFFICERS AND CIVILIAN STAFF THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN THE HOSPITAL,

                    SOME HAVE TO BE NARCAN'D.  IT'S AN EMER -- IT'S ISSUE THAT'S BEEN

                    CONSTANT, IT'S BEEN HORRIFYING, AND THE STATE HAS NOT DONE ENOUGH.  SO

                    FROM A POLICY STANDPOINT, IF WE'RE MAKING CORRECTIONS IN THIS BUDGET,

                    WAS THAT ONE AREA THAT WAS DISCUSSED DURING NEGOTIATIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S NOT IN THE BUDGET.  THAT'S NOT

                    PART OF THE BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  THANK YOU FOR THAT ANSWER.

                    OKAY.

                                 BODY-WORN CAMERAS.  AGAIN, THE BARGAINING UNIT WAS

                    NOT BROUGHT INTO THAT, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  AND WE'RE NOT SURE ABOUT THE

                    IMPACT THAT WOULD HAVE ON THE EXISTING UNION CONTRACTS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY EFFECT ON

                    EXISTING CONTRACTS.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  I WAS TRYING TO READ THROUGH

                                         89



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE EXACT LANGUAGE IN THE BUDGET BILL.  CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT IF A

                    CORRECTION OFFICER HAD TO USE THE RESTROOM THAT THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO

                    HAVE THE CAMERA ON?  I KNOW IT'S A PERSONAL QUESTION, I'M JUST ASKING

                    FOR THE RECORD.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.

                                 MR. MAHER:  YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD

                    HAVE TO KEEP THE CAMERA ON?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF THEY'RE IN THE RESTROOM, I DON'T

                    THINK THEY NEED THE BODY CAMERA ON.  THEY'RE NOT IN --

                                 MR. MAHER:  I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, I JUST DIDN'T

                    SEE IT IN THE BUDGET BILL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  THAT SPECIFIC LANGUAGE MAY

                    NOT BE THERE, BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED THAT YOU WEAR A BODY CAM WHILE

                    YOU'RE USING THE RESTROOM.

                                 MR. MAHER:  THANK YOU.  THAT'S A CONCERN FROM A

                    LOT OF MY CONSTITUENTS.  I HAVE FOUR STATE PRISONS IN MY DISTRICT AND I

                    APPRECIATE YOU MAKING THAT ADMISSION.  I AGREE WITH YOU.  OKAY.  ALL

                    RIGHT.

                                 SO WE ANSWERED PRETTY MUCH ALL OF MY QUESTIONS, SIR.

                    I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, AND I'M GONNA SPEAK ON THE BILL, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  I WANTED TO ASK THOSE

                    QUESTIONS.  I REALLY APPRECIATE SOME OF THE ANSWERS, I AGREE WITH A LOT

                    OF WHAT YOU ALSO HAD SAID.

                                         90



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE POLICY INITIATIVES THAT WE

                    HAVE PUT IN THIS BUDGET, I DON'T THINK WE REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THE

                    LONG-TERM IMPACT THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE ON THE STAFFING CRISIS.  WE

                    LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF PRISONS, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE GONNA BE CLOSING

                    POTENTIALLY UP TO THREE UP TO MARCH OF NEXT YEAR.  WE'VE CLOSED A LOT OF

                    PRISONS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS AND WE STILL HAVE AN EVEN WORSE

                    STAFFING CRISIS.  SINCE JANUARY WE'VE LOST A THIRD OF OUR ENTIRE STATE

                    WORKFORCE.  WE'RE HAVING ADVERTISERS COMPETE WITH NEW HIRES, AND WE

                    FIRED 2,000 CORRECTION OFFICERS WHEN HUNDREDS OF THEM WANTED TO COME

                    BACK ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.  THEY HAVE BEEN DENIED THE ABILITY TO DO

                    THAT.

                                 NOW WE'RE GONNA BE PUTTING TEENAGERS IN A POSITION

                    WHERE -- YES, THERE ARE SO MANY 18, 19-YEAR-OLDS THAT ARE COMPETENT,

                    THAT CAN HANDLE THEMSELVES.  BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE, MYSELF

                    INCLUDED WHEN I WAS 18, THAT DID NOT BELONG IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT,

                    AND I DO BELIEVE IT'S GONNA -- IT'S GONNA CAUSE SOME MAJOR ISSUES NOT

                    JUST FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS, BUT THOSE THAT ARE INCARCERATED AND ALSO

                    MORALE IN OUR WORKFORCE IN GENERAL.  I THINK THERE IS A WHOLE LOT MORE

                    WE COULD HAVE LOOKED AT.  AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT'S BEST FOR

                    EVERYONE -- AGAIN, NOT JUST OUR CORRECTION OFFICERS BUT THEIR FAMILIES,

                    THOSE THAT ARE WORKING AS CIVILIAN STAFF AND THOSE THAT ARE INCARCERATED

                    -- WE HAVE NOT MADE OUR PRISONS ANY SAFER WITH THESE POLICY ISSUES AND

                    WITH THESE ITEMS IN THE BUDGET.  I THINK WE'VE MADE IT FAR WORSE.  AND

                    WHILE I HOPE THAT I AM WRONG BECAUSE IT IS EVERY -- EVERYONE'S WISH TO

                    MAKE THINGS BETTER, I DO NOT SEE A LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL FOR BOTH

                                         91



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OUR CORRECTION OFFICERS, OUR -- OUR INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS AND ANYONE

                    WHO IS WORKING IN OUR STATE PRISONS.  TO SAY NOTHING OF THE FACT THAT

                    WHEN WE CLOSE STATE PRISONS WE TAKE THOSE THAT ARE INCARCERATED THAT

                    ARE IN ENVIRONMENTS THAT THEY'VE WORKED TO PUT THEMSELVES IN A CERTAIN

                    PLACE IN, NOW WE'RE UPROOTING THEM, PUTTING THEM IN ANOTHER PRISON

                    ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY COULD HAVE A MUCH WORSE EXPERIENCE THAT WILL

                    THREATEN THEIR ABILITY TO REINTEGRATE BACK INTO OUR SOCIETY PROPERLY.

                                 WE ALSO THEN HAVE THE HUMAN ASPECT AND THE

                    COMMUNITY ASPECT OF SHUTTING DOWN A PRISON, THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT ON

                    HOW THAT INTERFERES WITH THE LOCAL ECONOMY, POTENTIALLY CLOSING DOWN

                    OTHER SMALL BUSINESSES THAT RELY ON THAT MAIN EMPLOYER TO THEN SUPPORT

                    THE PIZZA PLACES, THE GAS STATIONS AND ALL THE OTHER LOCATIONS.  WE KNOW

                    CLOSING PRISONS DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.  WE'RE HERE STILL.  WE'RE

                    HIRING 18-YEAR-OLDS AND WE'RE STILL THINKING OF POTENTIALLY CLOSING MORE

                    PRISONS.

                                 WHEN WE -- WHEN WE TALK ABOUT STAFFING ISSUES WE

                    REALLY NEED TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT BFL NUMBER.  WE NEED TO

                    REALLY BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET OUR STAFFING

                    LEVELS WHERE THEY NEED TO BE FOR EVERYONE'S SAKE.  AND IF WE'RE

                    UNWILLING TO MAKE CERTAIN POLICY CHANGES, WE REALLY NEED TO FIGURE OUT

                    WAYS TO TREAT OUR CORRECTION OFFICERS AND CIVILIAN STAFF IN A WAY THAT

                    ALLOWS THEM TO BE OUR NUMBER ONE RECRUITERS FOR THE FUTURE.  IT ALWAYS

                    WAS A FAMILY BUSINESS.  IT ALWAYS WAS OUR COS PASSING DOWN TO THE

                    NEXT GENERATION THAT PRIDE AND THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE A DECENT-PAYING JOB

                    AND TO PROVIDE A PUBLIC SERVICE.  THEY'RE NOT THERE ANYMORE.  SO NOW

                                         92



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IT'S ON INCENTIVES LIKE THIS, NOW IT'S ON HIRING 18-YEAR-OLDS.  THESE

                    THINGS WILL NOT WORK IN A SUSTAINABLE WAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    MAHER.

                                 MR. MAHER:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. SEMPOLINSKI.

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE CHAIRMAN YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  I APPRECIATE IT, CHAIRMAN.  I

                    APPRECIATE ALSO YOU ANSWERING ALL OUR QUESTIONS AND ALL OF THE WORK ALL

                    OF YOUR STAFF HAS BEEN DOING AND ALL OF OUR STAFF ON OUR SIDE.

                                 I'M GONNA TO FOCUS ON TWO SECTIONS; THE FIRST WOULD BE

                    PART BBB, THE PRISON CLOSURES, AND SOME OF MY CONCERNS MIRROR WHAT

                    MR. MAHER WAS JUST SAYING.  AM I CORRECT THAT PART BBB DOES NOT

                    INDICATE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM WHICH CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES MIGHT

                    BE CLOSED UNDER THIS SECTION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CORRECT.  THAT GIVES -- THAT

                    PART GIVES THE GOVERNOR THE AUTHORITY TO CLOSE UP TO THREE FACILITIES.

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  AND THAT IS ANY TIME BETWEEN

                    NOW AND MARCH 31ST --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NEXT YEAR, CORRECT.

                                         93



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  -- OF NEXT YEAR.  OKAY.  AND

                    THAT WOULD BE DONE WITH ONLY 90 DAYS' NOTICE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  IT WOULD BE HER AUTHORITY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  SO MY CONCERN THERE IS I DON'T

                    HAVE ANY CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES IN MY DISTRICT.  I DO HAVE SOME THAT ARE

                    VERY CLOSE TO MY DISTRICT THAT ARE ADJACENT, SO WE HAVE A LOT OF FOLKS

                    THAT ARE STAFF IN THOSE FACILITY -- IN THAT FACILITY.  AND IT'S A VERY RURAL

                    AREA, AND HAVING THE LEVEL OF ANXIETY THEY HAVE IN THAT AREA OF THE

                    DISTRICT IS CONCERNING TO HAVE THAT SORT OF BROAD AUTHORITY.  BUT THANK

                    YOU.

                                 THE OTHER QUESTION, THIS IS -- I'M JUST SORT OF CURIOUS

                    ABOUT THIS -- WAS SECTION QQ, THE JOINT ELECTION OF THE GOVERNOR AND

                    LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.  I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE

                    CHANGE THERE.  CURRENTLY -- AM I CORRECT, IN OUR CURRENT LAW THE

                    GOVERNOR AND THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR RUN AS A TICKET IN THE GENERAL

                    ELECTION BUT ARE NOT A TICKET IN THE PRIMARY AND THIS WOULD CHANGE THAT

                    SECOND (INDISCERNIBLE).

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  UNDER -- UNDER CURRENT LAW, YOU

                    ARE CORRECT.

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  SO THERE'S -- WHAT I'M CURIOUS

                    ABOUT WITH THIS IS THERE'S CERTAINLY BEEN SOME DRAMA SURROUNDING THE

                    POSITION OF THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR FOR THE LAST COUPLE LIEUTENANT

                    GOVERNORS.  HOWEVER, THAT DRAMA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHOICE IN

                                         94



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE PRIMARY.  IT JUST CERTAINLY, BOOM, THIS SHOWS UP.  IT -- IT HAD -- THERE

                    WAS NEVER A SITUATION WHERE A GUBERNATORIAL NOMINEE DIDN'T GET THE

                    NOMINEE OF THEIR CHOOSING IN THE PRIMARY.  THAT HASN'T BEEN THE

                    CONCERN FOR THE LAST COUPLE LIEUTENANT GOVERNORS.  THERE'S BEEN OTHER

                    THINGS.  SO WHY THIS?  WHY NOW?  WHY IN THE BUDGET WHEN IT HAS

                    NOTHING TO DO WITH FISCAL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS IN

                    THIS BUDGET THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FISCAL SAVINGS, BUT -- BUT I

                    HATE TO USE THE ANALOGY, BUT I WILL -- IS THAT UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM

                    WE'RE CONDONING SHOTGUN MARRIAGES, AND --

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 BECAUSE IF -- IF YOU WERE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AND I

                    WAS RUNNING FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR IN A PRIMARY WITH THREE OTHER

                    PEOPLE AND YOU HAD THREE PEOPLE AND YOU WON, AND YOU AND I HAVE

                    DIAMETRICAL OPPOSITE VIEWS ON EVERYTHING AND I WON MY PRIMARY AND

                    YOU WON YOUR PRIMARY.  NOW YOU'RE THE GOVERNOR AND I'M YOUR

                    LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.  WE'RE NOT GONNA GET ALONG, IT'S WATER AND OIL.

                    AND THAT'S WHAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS DOING.  I THINK 30-SOME OTHER

                    STATES DO IT RUNNING AS A TICKET AS WE DO WITH THE PRESIDENCY OF THE

                    UNITED STATES.  YOU RUN AS A TICKET BECAUSE AS BEING SOMEONE'S

                    BACKUP, YOU WANT THEM TO AT LEAST HAVE THE SAME POLITICAL VIEWS AS YOU

                    HAVE, THE SAME VIEWS ON -- ON -- ON SEVERAL ISSUES, AND TO REPRESENT

                    YOU IN GOOD FAITH AND NOT TRY TO MAKE YOU LOOK BAD IF THEY'RE OUT

                    REPRESENTING YOU.

                                 AND, YOU KNOW, TO -- TO YOUR POINT, I'VE BEEN HERE FOR

                                         95



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    A NUMBER OF YEARS AND I KNOW WHEN ALFRED DELBELLO WAS MARIO

                    CUOMO'S LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, THEY DIDN'T EVEN SPEAK AND HE DECIDED

                    THAT HE DIDN'T WANT IT AND HE -- HE RESIGNED.  I THINK THE CURRENT

                    GOVERNOR (INDISCERNIBLE) THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF THE FORMER

                    GOVERNOR, AND THEY DIDN'T GET ALONG ALL THAT WELL.  SO THIS, I THINK, IS

                    GOOD FOR THE POLITICAL STATE FOR BOTH PARTIES IN NEW YORK.

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  WELL, CHAIRMAN, I -- I RESPECT

                    YOUR FLAIR FOR MATRIMONIAL METAPHORS --

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 -- AND I THINK WE'D FIND A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER IF THAT

                    WAS OUR SITUATION.

                                 BUT MY -- MY POINT BEING, THIS HAS NOT BEEN THE

                    PARTICULAR PROBLEM THAT THE CURRENT GOVERNOR'S BEEN HAVING WITH HER

                    LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, IT'S BEEN OTHER PROBLEMS.  AND MY OPINION

                    WOULD BE THAT IT WOULD SORT OF PUSHES IT INTO PARTY BOSSES PICKING AS

                    OPPOSED TO A MORE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

                                 THAT BEING SAID, I APPRECIATE YOU BEING WILLING TO

                    ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.  I'M GONNA GO ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  SO TO -- TO GO BACK TO THE

                    PRISON CLOSURES, I WANT TO REITERATE WHAT MY FRIEND MR. MAHER SAID.

                    THE PORTION OF THE DISTRICT THAT I REPRESENT THAT IS NEAR COLLINS

                    CORRECTIONAL IS A VERY RURAL AREA.  I WAS THERE A FEW WEEKS AGO FOR A

                    FIRE DEPARTMENT DINNER AND EVERYBODY -- THAT'S ALL THEY WANTED TO TALK

                    ABOUT WAS, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH THE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY?  IS IT

                                         96



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    GONNA BE CLOSED?  HAVE YOU HEARD A RUMOR?  IS IT ON THE LIST?  AND

                    HAVING THAT LEVEL OF ANXIETY OVER SUCH A SMALL COMMUNITY FOR SUCH A

                    LONG TIME, UP TO MARCH 31ST OF NEXT YEAR AND THEN POTENTIALLY HAVE A

                    SNAP CLOSURE IS CERTAINLY NOT SOMETHING THAT I CAN SUPPORT.  WHEN WE

                    MAKE DECISIONS LIKE THIS, IT SHOULD BE OPEN, IT SHOULD BE TRANSPARENT.  IT

                    SHOULD BE WITH ENOUGH TIME FOR COMMUNITIES TO ADJUST.  I -- I -- CONCUR,

                    I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE CLOSING PRISONS AT ALL.  THIS CERTAINLY -- THIS

                    SORT OF BLANKET AUTHORITY TO THE GOVERNOR IS -- IS NOT THE WAY TO

                    ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING THAT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE ACCOMPLISHING

                    AT ALL.

                                 AND THEN THE OTHER PIECE -- AND -- AND I'LL BE VOTING

                    AGAINST THIS PARTICULAR BILL MOSTLY ON THE PRISON CLOSURES, BUT THE OTHER

                    REASON WOULD BE WE'VE ALL BEEN WAITING TO SEE WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN

                    WITH DISCOVERY REFORM.  THERE'S NOT EVEN A WHISPER OF IT IN THIS BILL.

                    THE ANTICIPATION IS IT'S GONNA COME LATER.  I'LL -- IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO

                    SEE, IS IT WATERED DOWN, IS IT NOT WATERED DOWN, WHAT THE DETAILS ARE.

                    BUT THERE -- THAT'S A GAPING HOLE IN THIS BILL THAT WAS JUST ANOTHER REASON

                    WHICH I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 BUT AGAIN, I APPRECIATE THE CHAIRMAN ANSWERING MY

                    QUESTIONS AND I APPRECIATE THE QUALITY OF THE DEBATE TODAY.  THANK YOU

                    VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 CAN WE HAVE SOME QUIET IN THE CHAMBER, PLEASE?

                                 MRS. BAILEY.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                         97



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WOULD THE CHAIR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS IN AND AROUND CORRECTIONAL

                    FACILITIES, SPECIFICALLY, FIRST AND FOREMOST, ON THE RETENTION AND HIRING OF

                    NEW CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.  SO YOU HAD INDICATED THAT WE'RE DOWN ABOUT

                    4,000 CORRECTIONS OFFICERS --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S WHAT I'M TOLD, YES.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  -- THIS YEAR.  OKAY.  AND WE'RE

                    LOOKING TO OPEN TESTING UP FOR 18-YEAR-OLDS TO SIT FOR THE TEST TO BECOME

                    A CORRECTIONS OFFICER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  AND OUT-OF-STATE RESIDENTS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  AND ONCE WE HIT A 90 PERCENT FILL

                    RATE, I GUESS, OR STAFFING RATE FOR OUR CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS THAT THOSE

                    PROVISIONS WILL THEN BE PUT ON PAUSE OR WILL NOT BE PAID INTO THE

                    EQUATION, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S THE INTENTION.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE, IF THESE

                    INDIVIDUALS SAT FOR THE TEST, WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR NAMES IF THEY ARE ON

                    THE LIST TO BECOME A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY [SIC] AND THE CORRECTIONAL

                                         98



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    FACILITY IS USING A LIST TO ADVANCE SOMEONE FORWARD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THEY GET -- IT'S 60 DAYS FROM

                    THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THEY CAN ACCEPT THE POSITION OR NOT.  NOW, YOU

                    HAVE TO REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE 18-YEAR-OLDS IN THE FACILITIES

                    RIGHT NOW IN THE FORM OF --

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  I'M GOING TO GET TO THAT AS WELL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  -- THE NATIONAL GUARD, SO...

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  THE NATIONAL GUARD.  I'VE TALKED TO

                    MANY OF THEM.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  SO YOUR QUESTION IS IF

                    THEY'RE ON THE LIST --

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  SO IF THEY'RE ON THE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  -- THERE'S A 60-DAY WINDOW --

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  IF THEY ARE ON THE VALID LIST TO

                    BECOME A CORRECTIONS OFFICER BUT WE'VE HIT THAT 90 -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE

                    HIT THAT 90 PERCENT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY CAN STILL -- THEY CAN STILL BE

                    HIRED IN THAT CASE.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.  SO THEY STILL WOULD BE ABLE TO

                    BE CHOSEN OFF OF THAT LIST, THEY JUST WOULD NOT THEN BE ABLE TO SIT FOR A

                    NEW TEST IF WE'RE STILL AT THAT 90 PERCENT; AM I UNDERSTANDING THAT

                    CORRECTLY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.

                                 SO AS YOU ALLUDED TO THE NATIONAL GUARD.  SO, THE

                                         99



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PROVISIONS IN THE BUDGET THE WAY IN WHICH IT'S READ, THERE ARE CERTAIN

                    THINGS THAT OUR 18- TO 21-YEAR-OLDS ARE NOT ABLE TO DO IN THE FACILITY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CORRECT.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  ARE THOSE THE SAME PROVISIONS

                    CURRENTLY TODAY THAT OUR NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERS WHO ARE WITHIN THE

                    18- AND 21-YEAR-OLD --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.  SO ARE NATIONAL GUARD

                    MEMBERS WHO ARE 18 TO 21 CURRENTLY ARE ABLE TO DO THE THINGS THAT WE

                    HAVE OUTLINED WE CHOOSE NOT TO HAVE 18- TO 21-YEAR-OLDS --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE NATIONAL GUARD IS THERE UNDER

                    AN EMERGENCY SITUATION.  THE ANSWER -- DIRECT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION

                    IS YES.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 SO I -- THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, MEASURES IN THIS BILL

                    OVERALL THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE -- ARE GREAT TO SEE; THE 20-YEAR-OLD

                    RETIREMENT FOR THE NEW YORK CITY FOLKS; EXPANDING, YOU KNOW, LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT TO THE AGE OF 43 TO SIT FOR AN EXAM.  IS THERE A REASON WE

                    DID NOT INCLUDE THOSE PROVISIONS INTO -- FOR OUR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS A REASON

                    OR WHAT THE REASON WAS THAT THEY WEREN'T INCLUDED.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.

                                 SO, WE'RE LOOKING TO STAFF, YOU SAID 2,500 IS WHAT

                    WE'RE LOOKING TO REACH, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  PARDON?

                                         100



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  TWENTY-FIVE HUNDRED CORRECTIONS

                    OFFICERS WILL GET US TO THAT 90 PERCENT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S WHAT I'M TOLD, YES.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.

                                 I'M GONNA SHIFT MY THOUGHT PROCESS HERE JUST FOR A

                    MINUTE AND GO TO THE CLOSURES ON A PRISON -- OR ON THE CORRECTIONAL

                    FACILITIES.  THE BUDGET ALIGNS -- OUTLINES FOR UP TO THREE CORRECTIONAL

                    FACILITIES TO BE CLOSED AT THE GOVERNOR'S CHOOSING.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WITH 90-DAY NOTICE, YES.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  WITH 90-DAY NOTICE BASED ON -- AS

                    THE GOVERNOR DETERMINES TO BE NECESSARY FOR THE COST-EFFECTIVE AND

                    EFFICIENT OPERATION OF THE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY -- OR CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  FOR OUR PAST CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES

                    THAT WE'VE CLOSED, HOW HAS THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE EFFECTIVE OPERATION

                    OR THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF MAINTAINING OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I -- I IMAGINE THAT THERE --

                    PEOPLE THAT WERE INCARCERATED --

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 OKAY.  WE'VE -- WE'VE CLOSED SO FAR 26 CORRECTIONAL

                    FACILITIES AND ELIMINATED MORE THAN 15,000 PRISON BEDS SINCE 2011, AND

                    IT'S RESULTED IN AN ANNUAL SAVINGS TO THE STATE OF $492 MILLION.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  FOUR HUNDRED AND NINETY-TWO

                    MILLION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                         101



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  DO YOU KNOW, IN THOSE CLOSURES OF

                    THOSE 26 FACILITIES HOW MANY CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS DID NOT TAKE A

                    TRANSFER TO ANOTHER FACILITY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I -- I DO NOT KNOW.  BUT I -- MY

                    UNDERSTANDING IS THAT 96 PERCENT REMAINED EMPLOYED OR RETIRED.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.  AND FOR THOSE THAT HAVE HAD

                    TO TRAVEL -- KIND OF GOING BACK TO WHAT MY COLLEAGUE MR. DURSO WAS

                    TALKING ABOUT -- THOSE THAT HAVE HAD TO TRAVEL TO A DIFFERENT CORRECTIONAL

                    FACILITY FOR EMPLOYMENT, WHERE ARE THEY HOUSED?  HOW ARE THEY

                    HOUSED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE NOT HOUSED IN STATE

                    HOUSING.  I DON'T KNOW HOW THEIR HOUSED.  AS I STATED EARLIER, I DO

                    KNOW SOME INSTANCES WHERE THERE ARE TRAILER CAMPS OUTSIDE THE FACILITY

                    THAT MANY OF THE CORRECTION OFFICERS STAY IN.  MOST OF THEM -- THEY TRY

                    TO WORK WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THEIR LOCALE WHERE THEY ACTUALLY LIVE,

                    AND THEY COMMUTE TO WORK LIKE MOST PEOPLE.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.  AND ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT

                    I HAVE IS, I DO HAVE A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY IN MY DISTRICT, GROVELAND

                    CORRECTIONAL FACILITY, AND THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO TRAVEL QUITE A

                    DISTANCE DUE TO CLOSURES; MULTIPLE CLOSURES IN SOME INSTANCES WHERE

                    THEY'VE BEEN TRANSFERRED MANY -- TO MANY PLACES.  AND IT'S MY

                    UNDERSTANDING THAT SOME OF THEM DO STAY ON THE GROUNDS IN STATE

                    HOUSING.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.

                                         102



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MY NEXT QUESTIONS ARE GOING TO GO ON THE BODY-WORN

                    CAMERA, AND I BELIEVE MY COLLEAGUE MR. MAHER MENTIONED THIS OR

                    ASKED, AND WE'VE REHASHED THAT IT -- THE POLICY HAS NOT GONE THROUGH

                    ANY BARGAINING UNITS AS IT'S OUTLINED, AND YOU HAD MENTIONED ON THE

                    RECORD THAT IF STAFF NEEDS TO USE THE RESTROOM THAT THE CAMERAS THEN

                    COULD BE TURNED OFF?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  TO MY KNOWLEDGE.  I DON'T -- I

                    CAN'T GIVE YOU 100 PERCENT GUARANTEE THAT, BUT TO THE BEST OF MY

                    KNOWLEDGE THAT'S THE CASE.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.  I THINK WE NEED TO SEEK SOME

                    CLARITY ON THAT, BECAUSE THOSE THAT HAVE BODY CAMERAS RIGHT NOW, I

                    DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S NECESSARILY THE INFORMATION IN WHICH THEY'RE BEING

                    LED TO BELIEVE IS ACCURATE.  SO THAT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE GOT SOME --

                    SOME CLARITY ON THAT.

                                 THE NEXT QUESTION I HAVE ON BODY-WORN CAMERAS IS

                    THE COMMISSIONER HAS THE ABILITY TO HAVE CIVILIAN STAFF WEAR BODY-

                    WORN CAMERAS; IS THAT CORRECT IN THIS BILL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  HOW WILL THAT BE DETERMINED?  DO

                    WE KNOW?  IS IT BY FACILITY?  IS IT BY POSITION?  AND WILL THE BARGAINING

                    UNITS THAT REPRESENT THOSE INDIVIDUALS BE INVOLVED IN THAT DECISION-

                    MAKING PROCESS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I THINK THAT'S DETERMINED BY THE

                    SUPERINTENDENT OF --

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  BY THE SUPERINTENDENT OR THE

                                         103



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    COMMISSIONER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE COMMISSIONER, I SHOULD SAY.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.  SO WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S BY

                    POSITION OR IF IT'S BY A FACILITY-SPECIFIC --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S DETERMINED BY THE

                    COMMISSIONER, DOCCS COMMISSIONER.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AND IN -- IN ANSWER TO YOUR FORMER

                    QUESTION ABOUT USING THE CAMERA IN THE RESTROOM, I THINK THE

                    LEGISLATION, THE WAY IT'S WORDED, SAYS WHEN IT'S NECESSARY TO HAVE THE

                    CAMERA ON OR WHEN IT SHOULD BE ON, AND NOT 24/7.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  SO I READ THE SECTION THAT IT SAID IT'S

                    ON AT ALL TIMES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ON AND ACTIVATED ARE TWO DIFFERENT

                    THINGS.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.  BUT IF IT'S ON, ISN'T IT STILL

                    RECORDING (INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ACTIVATED IF

                    THEY'RE SITTING ON THE COMMODE.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BUT IT SHOULD -- IT COULD BE ON BUT

                    IT'S NOT ACTIVATED (INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  SO YOU'RE INDICATING ON MEANS ON

                    THE BODY, ON THE PERSON --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                         104



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  -- VERSUS BEING ACTIVATED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  ON THE -- THANK

                    VERY MUCH FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MRS. BAILEY:  VERY MUCH LIKE MY COLLEAGUE TO THE

                    LEFT, MR. SEMPOLINSKI, YOU KNOW, I -- I CAN'T IN GOOD FAITH VOTE FOR THIS

                    BILL, AND I REALLY THINK WE MISSED THE MARK WHEN IT COMES TO AN

                    OPPORTUNITY.  THERE ARE SEVERAL MEASURES IN HERE FROM -- FROM A POLICY

                    BASE THAT -- YOU KNOW, IN AND AROUND OUR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS, BUT IT

                    SPEAKS LOUD TO ME THAT WE DID NOT LISTEN TO THEM A FEW MONTHS BACK.

                    AND WE'RE TAKING MEASURES TO RETAIN AND RECRUIT IN SOME AREAS OF LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE -- WE'RE SELLING OURSELVES SHORT.

                                 WE CURRENTLY ARE SPENDING $100 MILLION A MONTH ON

                    THE NATIONAL GUARD IN OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES.  I HAVE CONCERNS WITH

                    BRINGING FOLKS IN FROM OUT-OF-STATE AND WHAT THAT MEANS FOR OUR

                    CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES.  WHERE DO WE HOUSE THESE INDIVIDUALS?  IF THEY

                    ARE COMING IN, WILL THAT BE SOMETHING THAT GETS LAYERED ON LATER ON?

                    AND HOW THAT -- WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR OUR STATE RESIDENTS IF THE

                    THEY'RE ALL ON THE SAME LIST?  I DID NOT READ ANY PROVISIONS IN THERE THAT

                    NEW YORK STATE RESIDENTS HAVE A PREFERENCE OVER OUT-OF-STATE RESIDENTS

                    WHEN IT COMES TO HIRING OUR CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS WITH THIS NEW

                    FRAMEWORK.  AND I HAVE TRUE CONCERNS -- I HAVE TRUE CONCERNS WITH OUR

                    NATIONAL GUARDSMEN IN OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES RIGHT NOW WHO ARE

                                         105



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18 AND 21.  AND I HAVE SAID THIS EVERY DAY SINCE

                    THEY WERE -- THEY WERE PUT IN PLACE, IS THAT OUR CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS

                    CANNOT SIT FOR THE EXAM UNTIL THEY WERE 21 YEARS OF AGE, BUT HERE WE

                    HAVE OUR NATIONAL GUARD IN THERE AT 18.  SO WE'RE MAKING SOME

                    CARVE-OUTS FOR INDIVIDUALS IF THEY CHOOSE TO GO INTO THIS PROFESSION AT

                    THAT AGE.  HOWEVER, WHAT DOES THAT DO AND HOW ARE THOSE POSITIONS

                    GOING TO BE TRANSITIONED AND MOVED AROUND IF THEY ARE CONSIDERED A

                    PEACE OFFICER?  AND WE'RE DOING HIRING.  IS THERE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF

                    INDIVIDUALS IN ANY ONE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY UNDER THE AGE OF 21?  DO

                    WE HAVE A NUMBER OF JOBS OUTLINED THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS CAN FILL

                    VERSUS THOSE THAT HAVE TO BE OVER 21?

                                 SO I REALLY BELIEVE WE NEED TO TAKE A BETTER LOOK AT

                    THIS AND REALLY LOOK AT HOW DO WE RETAIN AND RECRUIT OUR STAFF IN NEW

                    YORK STATE AND STOP PIECEMEALING DIFFERENT PIECES.  I THINK IT WAS

                    HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR A FEW MONTHS AGO ON WHAT SOME OF THE MEASURES

                    ARE THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO GET FOLKS INTO OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES.

                    THE ANSWER IS NOT CLOSING UP TO THREE MORE.  IT HAS A HUGE ECONOMIC

                    SHORTFALL ON THOSE AREAS IN WHICH THOSE CLOSINGS TAKE PLACE.  OUR

                    DISTRICT SUFFERED A CLOSURE IN 2019 AND THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS THAT TO THIS

                    DAY CONTINUE TO SPEAK ON THAT.  FURTHERMORE, THAT PROPERTY SAT VACANT

                    AND STILL SITS VACANT.  THE COUNTY JUST TOOK POSSESSION OF IT LAST YEAR

                    FROM NEW YORK STATE.  SO IT WOULD ALSO BE WHAT'S THE EXIT PLAN FOR

                    THESE EMPTY FACILITIES AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                         106



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  WILL THE CHAIRMAN YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU SO MUCH.

                                 ONE -- ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S GREAT ABOUT HAVING

                    SMART COLLEAGUES IS THEY TENDED TO ASK SOME OF THE SAME QUESTIONS.

                    I'M GONNA TRY VERY MUCH NOT TO BE REPETITIVE.  BUT I DID HAVE A FEW,

                    KIND OF, I GUESS, CLEANUP QUESTIONS TO ASK ON A VARIETY OF TOPICS.

                                 THE FIRST I'LL TAKE UP IS THE ISSUE WITH THE JUDGES, THE

                    CIVIL COURT AND COURT OF CLAIMS JUDGES THAT ARE GOING TO BE ADDED.

                    THAT'S IN PART NN OF THIS BILL.  THE PART PROVIDES FOR TEN ADDITIONAL

                    NEW YORK CITY CIVIL COURT JUDGES AND IT LAYS OUT THE DIFFERENT

                    COUNTIES.  WE HEARD QUITE A BIT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT EARLIER.  MY

                    QUESTION IS, IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS BILL THAT ADDS ANY UPSTATE JUDGES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.  UNFORTUNATELY, I'LL SAY NO.

                                 MS. WALSH:  WELL, I APPRECIATE YOU SAYING IT'S

                    UNFORTUNATE; I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.  IS -- IS THAT, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE,

                    BUILT INTO ANY OTHER BILL THAT WE MIGHT BE SEEING IN THE COURSE OF

                    PASSING THIS BUDGET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.  AS I SAID --

                    AS I SAID EARLIER TO OUR COLLEAGUE, THESE REQUESTS ARE MADE BY THE OFFICE

                                         107



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OF COURT ADMINISTRATION BASED ON HOW THEY SEE THE NEED STATEWIDE.

                    THEY SEE A NEED FOR A SUPREME COURT JUDGE -- JUDGES IN, YOU KNOW, IN

                    DISTRICT 12, THEY'LL PUT ONE OR THEY'LL MAKE A REQUEST FOR ONE.  WE'RE

                    JUST APPROVING WHAT THE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION HAS REQUESTED

                    TO FILL THE RANKS OF THEIR JUDGESHIPS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO CHAIRMAN, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT

                    I SHOULD TAKE MY BEEF UP WITH OCA, THEN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  ALL RIGHT.  I WILL DO THAT.

                                 THE NEXT THING I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT QUICKLY BECAUSE

                    WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONING ABOUT IT IS THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN

                    FINANCING CHANGES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  IT IS CONFUSING.  AND IT HAS, YOU KNOW,

                    THE -- MR. RA SPOKE EARLIER ABOUT THE -- THE PROBLEMS WITH ESSENTIALLY

                    TRYING TO PASS BUDGET BILLS WHEN WE DON'T YET HAVE A FULL PICTURE OF OUR

                    SPENDING PLAN.  I THINK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT WHEN IT COMES TO THE

                    PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE CHANGES.  IT SEEMS AS THOUGH WE MEMBERS ARE

                    KIND OF BEING LED THROUGH AND GETTING, YOU KNOW, POSITIONS AND MEMOS

                    AND -- AND IDEAS AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE PROGRAM ABOUT WHAT'S

                    GONNA BE ALLOWED AND NOT GONNA BE ALLOWED.  SO IT'S JUST, LIKE, OVERALL

                    KIND OF A CONFUSING THING.

                                 MY QUESTION IS REALLY AT THE END OF AN ELECTION CYCLE,

                    CAN YOU TRANSFER EITHER NON- OR PUBLIC MONEY OVER TO A HOUSEKEEPING

                    OR OTHER POLITICAL ACCOUNT?

                                         108



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU COULD TRANSFER

                    ANY PUBLIC MONEY IN.  IT HAS TO BE RETURNED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  BUT NOT -- OKAY, THE PUBLIC

                    MONEY HAS TO BE RETURNED, AND I -- I GET THAT.  NON-PUBLIC MONEY, WHAT

                    ABOUT THAT?  CAN THAT BE SENT OVER AS IT WAS, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, LAST

                    YEAR AT THE END OF THAT ELECTION CYCLE?  WE -- I READ ABOUT THAT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.  I THINK UP TO $50,000 CAN BE

                    TRANSFERRED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  UP TO $50,000, THANK YOU, COULD BE

                    TRANSFERRED TO A HOUSEKEEPING OR OTHER POLITICAL ACCOUNT.  THANK YOU.

                    OKAY.

                                 AND I -- I JUST WANTED TO ASK -- AND -- AND -- I WANTED

                    TO ASK BECAUSE I ALSO WAS HERE WHEN WE FIRST PASSED THIS AND I DIDN'T

                    SUPPORT IT.  I STILL THINK THAT CANDIDATES SHOULD BE ABLE TO MARSHAL THE

                    RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO RUN A CAMPAIGN ON THEIR OWN.  HOWEVER, THE --

                    THE PURPORTED REASON THAT WAS GIVEN FOR CREATING THIS WHOLE PROGRAM

                    WAS TO TRY TO AMPLIFY THE VOICES OF SMALL DONORS VERSUS LARGE DONORS,

                    AND TO HELP GRASSROOTS NON-MONEY CANDIDATES WHO WANT TO PARTICIPATE

                    IN THIS PROCESS TO HAVE A FIGHTING CHANCE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S THE THEORY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  HOW IS THE -- HOW DOES THE LANGUAGE

                    IN THIS BILL HELP FURTHER EITHER ONE OF THOSE GOALS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE THE ORIGINAL ITERATION OF

                    THIS BILL CAUSED DIFFICULTIES TO SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS JUST FOR THE $250

                    MAXIMUM.  YOU KNOW, $250 WAS MATCHABLE, I BELIEVE, AT EIGHT-TO-ONE

                                         109



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PAYMENT TO THE -- THE CANDIDATE.  BUT IF A WEEK AFTER THAT $10 CAME IN

                    AND YOU HAD $261, YOU WERE THEN RESPONSIBLE TO RETURN THE 250 -- THE

                    ENTIRE MATCHING AMOUNT, AND YOU MAY HAVE SPENT IT.  I MEAN, I USE TWO

                    WEEKS AS AN EXAMPLE, BUT A MONTH-AND-A-HALF AFTER YOU GOT YOUR $250

                    MATCHED, YOU RECEIVED AN ADDITIONAL $10 THAT THREW YOU OVER.  YOU

                    MAY HAVE ALREADY SENT OUT A MAILER OR SPENT THAT MONEY, BUT NOW

                    YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE -- OR YOU WERE RESPONSIBLE TO RETURN THE MATCHING

                    MONEY THAT YOU RECEIVED, YOU KNOW, EARLIER.  UNDER THIS NEW BILL YOU

                    CAN -- AFTER YOU MAX OUT AT $250, YOU CAN GET UP TO $1,050.  AND I --

                    DON'T ASK ME WHERE THAT NUMBER CAME FROM, IT WAS NEGOTIATED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  NEGOTIATED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU KNOW, $1,050 AND YOU WOULD

                    NOT HAVE TO RETURN THE ORIGINAL MATCHED FUNDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEAH, AND I CAN APPRECIATE THAT.  AND

                    I -- I THINK MANY OF US WHO DID PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM EXPERIENCED

                    THAT KIND OF INCREDIBLY ANNOYING THING.  AND IT WAS ALMOST INSULTING TO

                    SOMEBODY BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE DONOR, SOMETIMES THE DONOR

                    AND THEIR SPOUSE GOT AGGREGATED IN TERMS OF THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS.  BUT IF

                    THEY WANTED TO GIVE YOU ADDITIONAL MONEY LATER IN THE YEAR, FOR

                    EXAMPLE, YOU HAD TO TURN THEM DOWN AND THEN YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH

                    THAT WHOLE THING, THAT WHOLE CONVERSATION.  I UNDERSTAND THAT.  ALL

                    RIGHT.  LET'S MOVE AWAY FOR A MOMENT FROM PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING,

                    BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ON THAT.

                                 I WANT TO JUST A QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THE -- THE HIRING

                    THE 18- TO 21-YEARS-OLDS FOR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.  AND YOU MENTIONED

                                         110



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    EARLIER, I THINK, I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, YOU SAID SO THE PLAN IS TO MOVE

                    MORE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS THAT CURRENTLY WERE HOLDING DESK JOBS, I'M

                    GONNA SAY, OR NOT, YOU KNOW, DIRECT INMATE CONTACT SORT OF JOBS --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  -- AND MOVE THEM SINCE THEIR MORE

                    EXPERIENCED TO WORK WITH -- DIRECTLY WITH THE INMATES AND THEN HAVE

                    THE 18- TO 20-YEAR-OLDS -- 21-YEAR-OLDS MORE IN THESE DESK JOBS.  DID I

                    UNDERSTAND THAT CORRECTLY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, YOU DID.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  AND -- OKAY.  I

                    WOULD -- THIS IS MY EDITORIAL, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE

                    SOME OF THOSE MORE EXPERIENCED CORRECTIONS OFFICERS WHO DON'T WANT

                    TO HAVE DIRECT CONTACT WITH THE -- WITH THE INMATES

                    (INAUDIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS -- THAT IS A POSSIBILITY.

                    SOME MAY HAVE REQUESTED TO GET AWAY FROM THE -- THE POPULATION TO

                    THOSE -- TO THOSE POSITIONS.  BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS, IS THAT -- IS THAT

                    THERE ARE ENOUGH VACANCIES RIGHT NOW THAT -- THAT CAN ALL BE HANDLED

                    INTERNALLY WITHIN THE FACILITIES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  AND THANK

                    YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ANSWERS.

                                 AND, MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER O'PHARROW:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU SO MUCH.

                                 SO AS WITH -- YOU KNOW, THIS IS -- THIS IS OUR FIRST, I

                                         111



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    GUESS, MEATIER BILL THAT WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT TODAY AND, YOU

                    KNOW, THERE ARE ALWAYS GONNA BE THINGS IN THE BILL THAT WE LIKE, THERE'S

                    GONNA BE THINGS THAT WE DON'T LIKE.  I WANTED TO, I GUESS, TALK ABOUT A

                    COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I WAS VERY HAPPY TO SEE IN THE BILL.  ONE IS THE

                    25-YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN FOR FIREFIGHTERS THAT ARE EMPLOYED BY THE NEW

                    YORK STATE DIVISION OF MILITARY AND NAVAL AFFAIRS.  I THINK THAT'S GREAT

                    BECAUSE IN MY DISTRICT I HAVE THE 109TH AIRLIFT WING.  THEY'RE THE ONES

                    THAT FLY THE MISSIONS TO ANTARCTICA.  AND THEY HAVE FIREFIGHTERS THAT ARE

                    ON BASE THAT WERE VERY UPSET ABOUT THE CURRENT SITUATION AND ARE VERY

                    HAPPY -- I THINK THEY'RE GONNA BE VERY HAPPY TO SEE THE 25-YEAR

                    RETIREMENT PLAN.  AND SIMILARLY, I WAS VERY HAPPY TO SEE THE RETIREMENT

                    PLAN FOR THE NEW YORK STATE EN CON POLICE, THE NEW YORK STATE PARK

                    POLICE AND THE NEW YORK STATE UNIVERSITY POLICE TO MIRROR THE NEW

                    YORK STATE POLICE RETIREMENT --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER O'PHARROW:  MR. MEEKS,

                    WHY DO YOU RISE?

                                 MR. MEEKS:  I RISE FOR A POINT OF ORDER, CHAIR.

                    THROUGHOUT THIS DEBATE TODAY I'VE HEARD A NUMBER OF MY COLLEAGUES

                    ACROSS THE AISLE USE THE TERM "INMATE" IN REFERRING TO INCARCERATED

                    INDIVIDUALS.  IN AUGUST OF 2021, THE GOVERNOR SIGNED INTO LAW AND IT

                    RELATES TO REPLACING ALL INSTANCES OF THE WORDS OR VARIATIONS OF THE

                    WORDS "INMATE" OR "INMATES" WITH THE WORDS "INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL"

                    OR "INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS" OR VARIATIONS THEREOF.  SO I JUST WANT TO

                    PUT THAT ON THE FLOOR AND ASK THAT MY COLLEAGUES BE MINDFUL OF THE

                    TERMS THEY'RE USING TODAY.

                                         112



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. MEEKS.  IF I

                    MAY CONTINUE.

                                 SO THOSE ARE THE TWO THINGS THAT I MENTIONED THAT I

                    WAS VERY HAPPY TO SEE IN THE BUDGET BILL.  UNFORTUNATELY, I DO NEED TO

                    MENTION A FEW THINGS THAT I'M NOT VERY HAPPY ABOUT.  THE FIRST HAS TO

                    DO WITH THE JUDGES, AND I -- I CAN APPRECIATE SOME OF MY DOWNSTATE

                    COLLEAGUES UNHAPPY THAT MAYBE THEIR AREA DIDN'T GET WHAT THEY THOUGHT

                    THEY NEEDED.  I'VE GOT A REAL PROBLEM BECAUSE UPSTATE REALLY GOT THE

                    SHORT END OF THE STICK ON THIS ONE.  I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE --

                    MAYBE WE'LL SEE IT IN A LATER BUDGET BILL, BUT THE CHAIR IS INDICATING THAT

                    WE WILL LIKELY NOT.  SO IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE SOME KIND

                    OF AN OMNIBUS BILL SOMETIMES PASSED AT THE END OF SESSION.  BUT THE

                    FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT OCA IS REALLY LARGELY LISTENING, I THINK,

                    DISPROPORTIONATELY TO DOWNSTATE VOICES.  AND SPEAKING FROM THE

                    COUNTY THAT I PRIMARILY REPRESENT, SARATOGA COUNTY, SARATOGA COUNTY

                    HAS THE FASTEST-GROWING POPULATION OUT OF 53 UPSTATE NEW YORK

                    COUNTIES OVER THE PAST DECADE, AND ALL INDICATIONS ARE THAT THIS GROWTH

                    IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.  IN THE 11 COUNTIES

                    COMPRISING THE 4TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT, SARATOGA COUNTY HAS 26 PERCENT

                    OF THE ENTIRE DISTRICT'S POPULATION --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER O'PHARROW:  MR. LAVINE,

                    WHY DO YOU RISE?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I RESPECTFULLY ASK IF THE SPEAKER WILL

                    YIELD FOR JUST ONE QUESTION.

                                         113



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. WALSH:  YOU KNOW WHAT?  I -- I DON'T YIELD,

                    AND I'D VERY HAPPY TO TALK TO YOU LATER.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I WILL MAKE IT VERY SHORT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  ONLY BECAUSE MY TIME IS SO LIMITED,

                    MR. LAVINE.  THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHUCK.

                                 SO IN THE 11 COUNTIES COMPRISING THE 4TH JUDICIAL

                    DISTRICT, SARATOGA COUNTY HAS 26 PERCENT OF THE ENTIRE DISTRICT'S

                    POPULATION, BUT ONLY ONE OF THE 16 COUNTY COURT JUDGES ASSIGNED IN THE

                    4TH JD.  I PROVIDE THAT BY WAY OF EXAMPLE.  I THINK THAT IF WE ARE GOING

                    TO BE DOING THESE TYPES OF ADDITIONS OF JUDGES IN THE BUDGET, I WOULD

                    ASK AND I WOULD LIKE TO PUT ON THE RECORD THAT I WOULD LIKE OCA TO

                    LISTEN.  AND I'M DRAWING THAT INFORMATION THAT I JUST READ TO ALL OF YOU

                    FROM A LETTER THAT WAS PROVIDED TO OUR DISTRICT ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE

                    FROM THE NEW YORK STATE UNIFIED COURT SYSTEM WHO IS IN CONSTANT

                    CONTACT WITH OCA.  SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE NOT RAISING THIS ISSUE OR THAT

                    I'M ONLY RAISING IT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BUDGET.

                                 SO I REALLY DO HOPE THAT WE'LL SEE THIS BEFORE THE END

                    OF SESSION, WHENEVER THAT MIGHT BE.  I -- I -- FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND

                    WE MAY HAVE A COUPLE OF MORE DAYS EVEN TO WORK WITH DURING THIS --

                    THIS YEAR'S SESSION, WHICH I KNOW WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO HEAR ABOUT THAT.

                                 I THINK PROBABLY I'LL LEAVE IT THERE.  I MEAN, I THINK THAT

                    THE -- THE MAIN THING, I GUESS, I DO JUST WANT TO JUST TOUCH ON BRIEFLY IN

                    THE VERY LIMITED TIME THAT I HAVE REMAINING HAS TO DO WITH PUBLIC

                    CAMPAIGN FINANCING.

                                 AS I STATED DURING THE QUESTIONING, I THINK THAT THIS

                                         114



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHOLE PROGRAM WAS REALLY SET UP PURPORTEDLY TO HELP GRASSROOTS, FIRST-

                    TIME, MAYBE NOVICE, MAYBE NOT AS WELL-KNOWN, NON-INCUMBENTS RUN

                    FOR OFFICE.  AND IT WAS DESIGNED TO HELP PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO GIVE

                    SMALL AMOUNTS OF MONEY OR COULD ONLY GIVE SMALL AMOUNTS OF MONEY,

                    AND TO TRY TO REDUCE THE IMPACT -- SOMETIMES I THINK VERY

                    DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT OF MONEY COMING IN FROM SPECIAL INTEREST

                    GROUPS AND LOBBYING GROUPS.  AND I THINK THAT ON THE FACE OF IT, THEY

                    SEEMED LIKE GOOD IDEAS.  I DON'T NECESSARILY LIKE THE WHOLE -- I DON'T

                    SUPPORT THE WHOLE PROGRAM.  BUT, YOU KNOW, AS WAS SAID THIS MORNING,

                    AS RECENTLY FROM MY LOCAL PAPER, THESE CHANGES TURN THE REFORM ON ITS

                    HEAD AND SUBVERT IT ORIGINAL INTENT.

                                 A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, AS WAS MENTIONED, IN 20 -- TWO

                    YEARS -- TWO YEARS AGO, LAWMAKERS -- WE PASSED A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE

                    ALLOWED THE FIRST 250 OF ANY CONTRIBUTION TO BE MATCHED BY STATE

                    FUNDING, AND THE GOVERNOR VETOED THE BILL SAYING IT WOULD, QUOTE,

                    "EFFECTIVELY REDUCE THE IMPACT OF SMALL DONORS ON ELECTIONS", CLOSED

                    QUOTE, AND WAS A, QUOTE, "DIRECT CONTRAVENTION OF THE PURPOSE OF THE

                    PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROGRAM."  I DID AGREE WITH HER THEN.  I DON'T

                    KNOW WHY NOW WE'RE SEEING THIS LANGUAGE IN HERE NOW.  AND I DON'T

                    APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT IT'S BURIED IN THE BUDGET.  SO OUT OF 100 PAGES

                    OF BUDGET TEXT IT'S BEING KIND OF STUCK IN THERE, I THINK PROBABLY SO THAT

                    THE PUBLIC WON'T BE VERY AWARE OF IT.

                                 SO FOR THOSE REASONS I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THIS BILL.

                    BUT HEY, WE'RE STARTING TO VOTE ON BUDGET BILLS.  I'M HAPPY TO SEE THAT.

                    THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

                                         115



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ACTING SPEAKER O'PHARROW:  MR. DILAN.

                                 MR. DILAN:  THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER O'PHARROW:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. DILAN:  FIRST I WOULD LIKE TO THANK MY

                    COLLEAGUE, THE NEW CHAIR OF WAYS AND MEANS, ON HIS MAIDEN VOYAGE,

                    SO-TO-SPEAK, FOR GETTING HIS FIRST BUDGET BILL ON THE FLOOR AND TO

                    DEBATING IT.

                                 BUT, MR. SPEAKER AND MY COLLEAGUES, I WOULD LIKE TO

                    REMIND FOLKS AS TO WHY WE ARE HERE ON THE CORRECTIONS PORTIONS OF THIS

                    BILL TODAY.  IN MY TIME IN THIS CHAMBER, I TRADITIONALLY HAVEN'T TALKED

                    ON A PUBLIC PROTECTION BILL.  BUT THE CHANGES THAT WE ARE IMPLEMENTING

                    TODAY IS BECAUSE ROBERT BROOKS AND MESSIAH NANTWI WERE TRAGICALLY

                    MURDERED BY STATE EMPLOYEES WHEN THEY WERE UNDER THE CARE OF THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.  NOW, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, UNLESS THEIR USE OF FORCE

                    GUIDELINES WERE KICKED IN, THE GUARDS THAT MURDERED THEM DID NOT HAVE

                    THE AUTHORITY TO DO SO.  THIS STATE DID NOT GRANT THEM THAT AUTHORITY.  SO

                    WE'RE HERE TODAY BECAUSE THIS BILL CODIFIES LANGUAGE THAT IS IN THE

                    DOCCS COMMISSIONER'S DIRECTIVES.  WHY ARE WE DOING THAT?  IN CASE

                    A FUTURE DOCCS COMMISSIONER DECIDES TO CHANGE THEM.  ALL RIGHT?

                                 WE'VE HEARD THROUGHOUT THIS SESSION, YOU KNOW,

                    MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE HEARD THE PAIN THAT SOME OF US FROM THE

                    CAUCUS HAVE FELT, SOME OF US FROM OUTSIDE OF THE CAUCUS HAVE FELT, AND

                    SOME THAT EVEN INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS MAY HAVE FELT AS A RESULT OF THESE

                    TWO MURDERS.  WHAT WE HAVEN'T EXPRESSED AS A CAUCUS IS THE PAIN OUR

                                         116



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    COMMUNITY FEELS.  RIGHT?  I HEAR FOLKS TALKING ABOUT THE ANXIETY, ABOUT

                    PRISON CLOSURES AND DOING THAT UNDER EXPEDITED AUTHORITY.  BUT NO ONE'S

                    TALKING ABOUT THE ANXIETY OF THE SAFETY OF THEIR FAMILY WHO MAY HAVE

                    COMMITTED A CRIME, PROBABLY HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME.  SOME OF THEM

                    INNOCENT, NOT AT ALL.  BUT EVEN THOUGH THEY COMMITTED THAT CRIME, THEY

                    DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT FOR THEIR LIFE TO BE TAKEN BY AN EMPLOYEE OF THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.  SO WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO AS A LEGISLATURE,

                    NOTHING?  WE'RE SUPPOSED TO ONLY LOOK AT ONE SIDE OF THE EQUATION, OUR

                    WORKFORCE AND NOT THE OTHER PEOPLE UNDER THE CARE OF THE STATE?  NO.

                                 TODAY WE'RE TAKING ACTION.  IT'S A FIRST STEP OF MANY

                    STEPS THAT WE NEED TO TAKE TO DO THE NEXT RIGHT THING.  AND I BELIEVE

                    THAT'S WHAT, MY COLLEAGUES, WE ARE DOING HERE TODAY.  SO CODIFYING

                    LANGUAGE TO SET PERMANENT GUIDELINES IN LAW FOR THE USE OF BODY

                    CAMERAS, TO ME, IS A CRITICAL FIRST STEP.  AND REFORMING A DEPARTMENT

                    THAT NEEDS TO BE REFORMED.

                                 NOW, MANY OF YOU, MY COLLEAGUES, WE'VE ALL SEEN THAT

                    VIDEO, RIGHT?  WE ALL SAW WHAT WAS HORRENDOUS.  BUT WE ALSO SAW BODY

                    LANGUAGE THAT WAS EQUALLY DISTURBING.  EQUALLY DISTURBING.  ALMOST

                    LOOKED NONCHALANT AND -- AND MATTER-OF-FACT.  AND THAT PAINS A LOT OF

                    US, A LOT OF OUR PEOPLE THAT -- THAT WE -- WE REPRESENT.  AND I CAN'T TELL

                    YOU THE AMOUNT OF CALLS THAT I HAVE GOTTEN FROM PEOPLE IN THE STATE AND

                    FROM OUT OF THE STATE OVER THE CONCERN OF THE SAFETIES OF SOMEONE WHO

                    IS INCARCERATED BECAUSE NOT THAT THEY HAVE FEAR FROM ANOTHER

                    INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL, BUT THEY HAVE FEAR POTENTIALLY OF SOMEONE WHO

                    WAS CHARGED WITH THEIR SAFETY AND THEIR CARE.

                                         117



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 NOW LISTEN, I THINK SAFETY AND THE CARE OF EVERYONE

                    WHO IS IN A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY IS PARAMOUNT, WHETHER YOU'RE AN

                    INCARCERATED IN -- INDIVIDUAL OR A GUARD.  BUT AS WE STAND HERE TODAY, I

                    CAN'T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME AN INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL WAS KILLED --

                    EXCUSE ME, THAT A -- A CORRECTION OFFICER WAS KILLED IN THE LINE OF DUTY

                    BY AN INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL.  SO WE NEED TO TAKE THIS INTO ACCOUNT AS

                    WE GO FORWARD.  AND I -- I HAVE TO SAY, I BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE GOING

                    FURTHER.  YOU KNOW, THERE WAS LANGUAGE OFFERED UP THAT WOULD GIVE US

                    REPORTING.  AND -- AND -- AND TO PARAPHRASE MY FRIEND IN CONFERENCE,

                    MR. ANDERSON, I DO HAVE A BILL FOR THAT.  BUT BASICALLY SAYS HOW OSI,

                    WHO IS GETTING ADDITIONAL MANPOWER TO CONDUCT THESE INVESTIGATIONS

                    WHERE THESE INSTANCES OCCUR, HAVE TO REPORT TO US.  BECAUSE OSI,

                    DOCCS OSI, NOT THE AG'S OSI, IS NOT INDEPENDENT OF DOCCS.  SO

                    WHERE ARE OUR INDEPENDENT CHECKS ON THIS SYSTEM?  I BELIEVE THAT

                    TECHNOLOGY IS THE FIRST IMPORTANT STEP THAT WE CAN TAKE, AND SETTING

                    FORTH THE RULES FOR THAT TECHNOLOGY IS WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE TODAY.

                                 NOW IN THE CASE OF ROBERT BROOKS, THE CAMERAS WERE

                    ON AND WE ALL, UNFORTUNATELY, HAD TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED.  IN THE CASE OF

                    MESSIAH NANTWI, THOSE CAMERAS WEREN'T ROLLING.  PROBABLY

                    INTENTIONALLY.  SO IT'S A CLEAR MESSAGE THAT WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

                    WE -- WE CAN'T JUST SIT HERE AND SAY THAT -- THAT -- THAT ONLY ONE SIDE OF

                    THIS EQUATION IS AFFECTED, RIGHT?  NOW I -- I GUARANTEE BOTH SIDES OF

                    EQUATION ARE AFFECTED.  BUT LET'S DEAL WITH IT HOLISTICALLY, AND LET'S START

                    TO DEAL WITH IT FROM A PERSPECTIVE THAT IN THE NEAR FUTURE SOME OF THE

                    FOLKS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN THIS SYSTEM HAVEN'T BEEN

                                         118



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    HARMED IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS.  SO WHEN WE START TO DEAL WITH THAT,

                    WHEN WE START TO UNPACK THAT, WHEN WE START TO DEAL WITH THE EMOTIONS

                    THAT SOME OF US ARE FEELING AND SOME OF THE MEMBERS OF OUR

                    COMMUNITY ARE FEELING, THEN I THINK WE ARE ON A ROAD TO SOLVING THIS

                    PROBLEM.  BUT I THINK RIGHT NOW IF WE JUST LOOK AT IT AS LABOR FORCE

                    VERSUS INCARCERATED VERSUS THE LEGISLATURE VERSUS THE GOVERNOR, WE'LL

                    BE HERE.  WE'LL BE HERE AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE.  AND THE SAD THING IS

                    THAT THE TECHNOLOGY -- THE TECHNOLOGY, THE WILL, IS OUT THERE TO MAKE

                    SUCH CHANGE, AND I HOPE THAT WE COLLECTIVELY ARE ALL PART OF DOING THAT

                    CHANGE TOGETHER.  THE CAUCUS HAS BEEN TREMENDOUSLY SUPPORTIVE,

                    MEMBERS OF THE CORRECTIONS COMMITTEE HAVE BEEN TREMENDOUSLY

                    SUPPORTIVE.  AND NOT OF ME.  I -- I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT ME.  IT'S OF THE

                    AGENDA.  THEY COULD CARE LESS ABOUT ME.  IT'S OF THE AGENDA THAT NEEDS

                    TO BE DONE FOR OUR PEOPLE THAT HAS NOT BEEN DONE AND HAS BEEN

                    OVERLOOKED FOR YEARS.  THIS IS THE FIRST STEP IN CORRECTING THAT TODAY.

                    AND I KNOW A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES ARE EAGER TO GET TO THAT WORK.

                                 AND THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS IN THIS BUDGET THAT I DO NOT

                    LIKE.  ALL RIGHT?  I -- I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF 18-YEAR-OLDS GOING IN.  I

                    PERSONALLY THINK THEY'RE NOT READY.  I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR IT AS PART OF A

                    NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT.  YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT.  BUT THAT

                    ADDRESSES, POTENTIALLY, A RECRUITING PROBLEM THAT REALISTICALLY EXISTS.  IT

                    DOES.  WE CAN'T DENY THAT IT EXISTS, IT -- IT DOES.  BUT AT THE SAME TIME,

                    WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE COLLECTIVELY THAT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE

                    EQUATION, THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SWEPT UNDER THE RUG AND NOT DEALT WITH

                    FOR YEARS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED BY THIS LEGISLATURE.  THERE NEEDS TO BE A

                                         119



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    DRAMATIC REFORM OF THE PRISON SYSTEM IN THIS STATE SO THAT FOLKS SERVE

                    THE SENTENCE THAT THEY WERE ISSUED BY A COURT, NOT BY A MEMBER OF THE

                    STATE WORKFORCE.  UNLESS, OF COURSE, THE USE OF FORCE GUIDELINES THAT

                    THEY HAVE ARE BROKEN.  AND IN THIS CASE NEITHER ONE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS

                    WHO I HAVE CITED EARLIER BROKE THOSE USE OF FORCE RULES, IN MY OPINION

                    OR FROM WHAT I BELIEVE.

                                 SO, MR. SPEAKER, I MEAN, I -- I COULD GO ON.  THERE --

                    THERE'S SO MANY THINGS THAT WE COULD DO.  THERE'S THINGS WHERE WE'RE

                    CHANGING LANGUAGE TO THE STATE COMMISSION OF -- OF CORRECTIONS.  I

                    THINK THEY NEED TO BE EMPOWERED.  THEY NEED TO BE EMPOWERED

                    INDEPENDENTLY.  THEY WERE EMPOWERED IN THIS STATE IN THE PAST.  THEY

                    LOOK AT -- THEY LOOK AT DEATHS IN THE DOCCS SYSTEM AND IN LOCAL

                    SYSTEMS, BUT THEY NEED TO BE EMPOWERED IN THE WORST WAY.  THEY HAVE

                    ALMOST NO SAY OVER DOCCS.  THEY DO HAVE SOME SAY ON LOCAL JAILS,

                    AND ME AND MY COLLEAGUE DURING THE BUDGET HEARING, DEMOND MEEKS,

                    GOT TO WATCH ANOTHER ASSAULT THAT OCCURRED ON SOMEONE WHO WAS

                    INCARCERATED RIGHT HERE IN ALBANY COUNTY, AT THE LOCAL CORRECTIONAL

                    FACILITY.  AND ALBANY COUNTY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY HAS HAD SOME

                    CHALLENGES THIS YEAR.  SO WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT THIS HOLISTICALLY.

                    BUT TO LOOK AT IT AND JUST SAY, OH, WELL WHERE ARE MY GUARDS GONNA

                    WORK?  AND THIS ASPECT IS UNFAIR WHEN YOU CLEARLY SEE, NO MATTER WHAT

                    PARTY YOU'RE IN, YOU SAW WHAT YOU SAW.  SO LET'S DEAL WITH IT

                    COLLECTIVELY, HOLISTICALLY.

                                 I'M -- I'M -- LOOK, I'M PRO-LABOR.  I'M PRO-ALL LABOR.

                    RIGHT?  I CONSIDER MYSELF PRO-LABOR.  AND SURE, YOU KNOW, THE REASON

                                         120



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHY THE 18-YEAR-OLDS ARE BEING DONE, BECAUSE WHEN I VISITED SOME OF

                    THESE CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES I'VE TALKED TO INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS.  I'VE

                    ALSO TALKED TO GUARDS.  ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST FEARS IS BEING -- COMING IN

                    ON A FRIDAY AND BEING STUCK AND THEY CAN'T GO HOME AND THEY MISS

                    THEIR DAUGHTER'S BIRTHDAY AND THEY CAN'T GET OUT.  YOU KNOW, I'M -- I'M

                    SYMPATHETIC TO THAT.  I'M HUMAN.  I WANT TO BE THERE FOR MY DAUGHTER'S

                    BIRTHDAY, TOO.  BUT WE CAN'T DENY THE FACT THAT UNDER THE COLLECTIVE CARE

                    TWO PEOPLE WERE MURDERED, AND OTHERS ABUSED AND SWEPT UNDER THE RUG

                    FOR YEARS THAT WE MAY NEVER KNOW ABOUT.  SO WE'RE TAKING THE FIRST STEP

                    TO CHANGE THAT.  AND I THINK THE TAXPAYERS OF THIS STATE, THE LEGISLATURE

                    OF NEW YORK -- OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK ARE ENTITLED TO A LEVEL OF

                    TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY OF ALL AGENCIES.  NOT JUST DOCCS, OF

                    EVERY AGENCY.  DOCCS IS NOT EXCLUSIVE.  THEY'RE NOT -- THEY DON'T GET

                    TO BE OPAQUE AS THEY WERE USED TO IN THE PAST.  THAT HAS TO CHANGE.  WE

                    CAN DO IT FAIRLY.  WE CAN DO IT FAIRLY FOR INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS AND

                    WE CAN DO IT FAIRLY FOR A WORKER ALIKE.  BUT TO SAY THAT THE WORKER WAS

                    AGGRIEVED AHEAD OF WHAT WE JUST SAW, LET'S BE HUMAN.  FORGET ABOUT

                    BEING A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN.  LET'S BE HUMAN.  ALL WE ASK IS TO

                    BE TREATED FAIRLY.  AND I THINK THE SECOND WE GET TO DOING THAT AS A

                    STATE AND AS THE LEGISLATURE, WE'LL BE IN A MUCH, MUCH, MUCH BETTER

                    PLACE.

                                 SO, MR. SPEAKER, I -- I COULD GO ON, BUT IN -- IN THE,

                    YOU KNOW, JUST THE INTEREST OF TAKING THE FIRST STEP AND VOTING ON WHAT I

                    BELIEVE HOLISTICALLY IS THE FIRST STEP IN DOING THE RIGHT THING, I'M GONNA

                    TO VOTE, OR I INTEND TO VOTE YES ON THIS BILL.  BUT I THOUGHT AT THIS TIME IT

                                         121



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WAS VERY, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO PUT THE FULL NARRATIVE OUT THERE AND

                    NOT JUST HALF THE NARRATIVE THAT EXISTS WITHIN THE DOCCS SYSTEM TODAY.

                                 SO WITH THAT, MR. SPEAKER, I THANK YOU.  YOU KNOW, I

                    -- I COULD SAY MORE, BUT I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO STOP HERE BECAUSE I

                    THINK IT PUTS, YOU KNOW, JUST A LEVEL OF CIVILITY TO IT AND A LEVEL OF

                    HUMANITY TO IT THAT I THINK WE ALL NEED.  AND IT ALLOWS SOME OF US WHO

                    HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS PAIN AND SILENCE TO AT LEAST COME FORWARD

                    AND -- AND EXPRESS THAT.  BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY WE'RE -- WE'RE

                    ALL HUMAN.  AND -- AND SOME OF THIS STUFF THAT HAPPENS, AS A LEGISLATURE

                    YOU TRY NOT TO BRING THE STUFF HOME WITH YOU, BUT WE'RE ALL STILL HUMAN.

                    SOME OF THIS STUFF HURTS.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

                                 (APPLAUSE)

                                 ACTING SPEAKER O'PHARROW:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    DILAN.

                                 MRS. [SIC] CHANDLER-WATERMAN.

                                 MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  ON THE BILL.

                    THANK YOU, SPEAKER.

                                 AS I KNOW THIS BUDGET BILL COVERS A COLLECTIVE OF

                    IMPORTANT ISSUES, I WILL FOCUS ON ONE VERY IMPORTANT CONCERN FOR NEW

                    YORKERS.  AS A NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY MEMBER REPRESENTING

                    BROOKLYN, IN BROOKLYN, ASSEMBLY DISTRICT 58 COVERING AN

                    UNDER-RESOURCE AREA OF EAST FLATBUSH, PARTS OF CANARSIE, BROWNSVILLE

                    AND CROWN HEIGHTS, PREDOMINANTLY BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES

                    THAT HAVE SOME OF THE HIGHEST LEVEL [SIC] OF GUN VIOLENCE THROUGHOUT

                                         122



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    NEW YORK STATE.  TODAY MARKS A PIVOTAL MOMENT WITH THE PASS [SIC] OF

                    CRITICAL LEGISLATION THROUGH THIS BUDGET TO ADDRESS THE NATIONAL CRISIS OF

                    GUN VIOLENCE, AND ESPECIALLY THE TRAUMA TO THE COMMUNITIES IMPACTED.

                    I WANT TO EXTEND SPECIAL THANK YOU TO THE LEADERSHIP HERE WITH OUR

                    SPEAKER, HIS TEAM, WAYS AND MEANS, MR. PRETLOW AND MY COLLEAGUES,

                    BUT ALSO TO THE ADVOCACY GROUPS WHO HAVE AND ARE CONTINUING TO

                    SUPPORT US IN DOING MUCH OF THIS WORK ACROSS THE STATE, ESPECIALLY

                    NATIONAL GROUPS LIKE NEW YORKERS AGAINST GUN VIOLENCE, COMMON

                    CAUSE, MY DISTRICT 58 PUBLIC SAFETY TASK FORCE AND THE LOCAL GROUPS AND

                    MY COLLEAGUES' DISTRICT [SIC] THROUGHOUT THE STATE THAT HELP MYSELF AND

                    MY SENATE PRIME SPONSOR CREATE THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  DUE TO THIS

                    COLLABORATIVE WORK OF EVERYONE BEHIND THE SCENES, WE ARE ABLE THROUGH

                    THIS BUDGET TO PASS THE LEGISLATION TO SECURE THE NEW YORK STATE OFFICE

                    OF GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION TO EXPAND AND ENSURE THAT ITS OFFICE IS

                    PERMANENT IN STATE STATUTE REGARDLESS OF WHO'S IN OFFICE TO GUIDE THE

                    DEVELOPMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION OF IMPACTFUL WRAPAROUND SERVICES,

                    ESPECIALLY MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT, INTENTIONAL SUPPORT FOR OUR SURVIVORS,

                    DATA COLLECTION, GRANT ALLOCATION TO COMMUNITY-BASE [SIC] ORGANIZATIONS

                    AND PUBLIC EDUCATION CAMPAIGNS AIMED TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE WITH

                    THE COORDINATION OF STAKEHOLDERS AND AGENCIES, ESPECIALLY THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, OFFICE OF MENTAL HEALTH AND OFFICE OF VICTIM

                    SERVICES.  THIS MOVE IS NOT JUST MERELY CONSEQUENTIAL.  IT IS VITAL AND

                    THE ACTIONS WERE ARE TAKING IN THE REGARD WILL SET A PRECEDENCE WITH

                    STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE ARE IN UNCERTAIN TIMES

                    WHERE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WERE CUT ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL

                                         123



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    FROM THE SAME -- SAME COMMUNITY GROUPS IN THE MIDDLE OF A GRANTED

                    CONTRACT THAT PROVIDES RESOURCES TO SUPPORT HOLISTIC RESPONSE AND

                    PREVENTATIVE GUN VIOLENCE MEASURES.

                                 ALSO, IN JANUARY THE WHITE HOUSE OFFERS [SIC] A GUN

                    VIOLENCE PREVENTION WAS CLOSED WITH THIS NEW ADMINISTRATION.  THE

                    SAME MONTH, DAYS PRIOR TO THE OFFICE CLOSURE, TEN YOUNG PEOPLE WERE

                    SHOT AND INJURED IN A MASS -- MASS GUN VIOLENCE INCIDENT IN NEW YORK

                    CITY.  AND UPDATE -- AND UPSTATE LIKE BUFFALO MASS SHOOTING OF TEN

                    MURDERED OR EVEN ROCHESTER REPORT A SUMMER VIOLENCE OF FIVE PEOPLE

                    BEING SHOT.  OUR PLIGHT TO ERADICATE GUN VIOLENCE IS NOT JUST ANOTHER

                    PIECE OF LEGISLATION, IT IS HOW TO TRULY REIMAGINE HOW TO ADDRESS PUBLIC

                    HEALTH CRISIS.  ONE INCIDENT OF GUN VIOLENCE IS TOO MUCH AND SURVIVORS

                    AND FAMILIES NEED TO BE SUPPORTED DURING THE TRAUMATIC TIME.  IF THERE'S

                    ONE INCIDENT OR WHAT WE NOW HAVE AS A NEW TERM IN THE STATE STATUTE

                    MASS GUN VIOLENCE INCIDENTS WHETHER THERE'S A MASS SHOOTING OF FOUR OR

                    MORE BEING MURDERED OR THREE OR MORE BEING -- ARE INJURED OR THREE OR

                    MORE INJURED IN SEVEN DAYS OF MULTIPLE SHOOTINGS, THESE (INDISCERNIBLE)

                    INDIVIDUAL INJURED NOW IS A TERM CODIFIED OR MORE SUPPORT.  NO ONE

                    WAKES UP THINKING THEIR LOVED ONE WILL BE A VICTIM OF GUN VIOLENCE.

                    HOWEVER, THERE IS SOME PEOPLE'S REALITY EVERY DAY.

                                 I WANT TO THANK THE VITAL FORCE OF OUR SURVIVORS WHO

                    TURNED THEIR PAIN INTO PURPOSE, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS LEGISLATION, THE

                    NOW, THE OFFICE OF VICTIM SERVICES THROUGH THIS BUDGET WILL NOW BE

                    MORE FINANCIAL SUPPORT FOR BETTER ASSISTANCE WITH NO JUDGMENT TO THE

                    VICTIM.  MORE SUPPORT WILL BE (INDISCERNIBLE) FOR CLEANUP OF THE CRIME

                                         124



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SCENE WHETHER YOU'RE A FAMILY OR NOT.  LOSS (INDISCERNIBLE) TO SURVIVORS

                    SUPPORT, ASSISTANCE WITH RELOCATION AND EVEN (INDISCERNIBLE) SUPPORT TO

                    THOSE WHO ARE LIVING WITH DISABILITIES THAT ARE VICTIMS. WHILE WE HAVE

                    A BIG, ILLEGAL GUN PROBLEM, WE NEED MORE RESTRICTIONS TO STOP THE FLOW

                    OF ILLEGAL GUNS INTO OUR COMMUNITIES, BUT WE ALSO NEED TO ENSURE GUN

                    OWNERS, LEGAL GUN OWNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE WHEN IT COMES TO SAFE

                    STORAGE AS WELL.  THIS CRISIS OF COMMUNITY VIOLENCE IS MULTI-LAYERED.

                    MY HEART GOES OUT TO ALL THE FAMILIES IMPACTED WHILE I'M APPRECIATIVE

                    THAT WE HAVE TAKEN STEPS TO SECURE AND EXPAND THE OFFICE OF GUN

                    VIOLENCE PREVENTION AND PROVIDE MORE SUPPORT FOR SURVIVORS THROUGH

                    THE OFFICE OF VICTIM SERVICES THERE ARE STILL MORE FINANCIAL INVESTMENTS

                    AND RESOURCES NEEDED TO TRULY ADDRESS THIS ONGOING CRISIS IN A

                    MEANINGFUL WAY AND MAKING SURE THAT THESE AGENCIES HAVE THAT

                    FINANCIAL SUPPORT.  I'LL BE REMISS IF I DID NOT MENTION THE WRAPAROUND

                    SERVICES (INDISCERNIBLE) FOR CHILDREN LIKE CHILD CARE, AFTER SCHOOL

                    PROGRAMS, OUT OF SCHOOL PROGRAMS, EDUCATIONAL SUPPORTED PROGRAMS

                    AND RESOURCES ARE ALSO UPLIFTED WITH MORE FINANCIAL INVESTMENTS.  THIS

                    BILL'S NOT PERFECT, NOT EVERYTHING WE WANT TO -- WANT TO HAVE, BUT

                    HOWEVER, I LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUE TO WORK COLLABORATIVELY WITH

                    THESE AGENCIES, STAKEHOLDERS, ESPECIALLY SURVIVORS AND

                    COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS INTERRUPTING THE VIOLENCE TO ENSURE WE

                    ARE INTENTIONAL WITH LISTENING TO THOSE WHO HAVE LIVED EXPERIENCY --

                    EXPERIENCES HOLISTICALLY TO LEND THEIR VOICES TO SUPPORT THE PUBLIC

                    HEALTH CRISIS.

                                 THANK YOU.  I PLAN TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                         125



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ACTING SPEAKER O'PHARROW:  THANK YOU,

                    MRS. [SIC] CHANDLER-WATERMAN.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER O'PHARROW:  THE SPONSOR

                    YIELDS.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.

                                 CHAIRMAN, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE TEN CIVIL COURT

                    SEATS THAT ARE FROM NEW YORK CITY.  ONCE AGAIN, HOW WERE THE

                    DETERMINATIONS MADE AS TO HOW MANY SEATS WERE TO GO TO EACH

                    BOROUGH?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE OFFICE OF COURT

                    ADMINISTRATION MADE THE DETERMINATION AS TO HOW MANY THEY NEEDED

                    IN THE SYSTEM, AND MY BE -- AND MY BELIEF IS THAT THE BASIS THAT THEY DID

                    THE JUDGES' ASSIGNMENT BY COUNTY WAS BASED ON ARRESTS IN THAT COUNTY.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  OKAY.  SO WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US

                    HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY IS THAT THE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION

                    DETERMINED HOW MANY SEATS AND WHICH BOROUGHS THEY WERE GOING TO;

                    IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  OKAY.  AND WHO IN THE OFFICE OF

                    COURT ADMINISTRATION DID YOU SPEAK TO IN REGARDS TO THIS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DIDN'T SPEAK TO ANYONE IN THE

                                         126



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OFFICE OF COURT -- OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION.  THEY MADE A

                    REQUEST THROUGH THE EXECUTIVE FOR THESE POSITIONS TO BE INCLUDED IN THE

                    BUDGET.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  OH, SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY TYPE

                    OF CONVERSATION WITH ANYBODY AT OCA --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ME PERSONALLY --

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS: -- IN REGARDS TO --

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- ABSOLUTELY NOT.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I SAID ME PERSONALLY, ABSOLUTELY

                    NOT.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  OKAY.  SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING

                    BASICALLY IS THAT THESE TEN JUDGESHIPS SOMEHOW APPEARED OUT OF

                    NOWHERE AND WE HAVE NO IDEA WHY CERTAIN BOROUGHS, EVERY BOROUGH

                    BASICALLY HAS TWO, BROOKLYN HAS THREE AND STATEN ISLAND HAS ONE.  AND

                    YOU ALSO HAVE NO IDEA WHY CERTAIN MUNICIPAL DISTRICTS POTENTIALLY HAVE

                    A JUDGESHIP WHILE OTHERS DON'T.  IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M TELLING YOU THAT THE OFFICE OF

                    COURT ADMINISTRATION MAKES A DETERMINATION AS TO THE ASSIGNMENT AND

                    LOCATION OF JUDGES.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  OKAY.  MAYBE THEN WE SHOULD

                    HAVE BROUGHT JUDGE ZAYAS HERE AND MAYBE I COULD'VE ASKED HIM UNDER

                    --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF HE WERE A MEMBER OF THIS BODY I

                    WOULD -- I WOULD ACCEPT THAT, BUT RIGHT NOW WE ARE DOING THE BUDGET AS

                                         127



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    REQUESTED IN -- IN THIS CASE BY THE EXECUTIVE.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS:  OKAY.  WELL, THANK YOU VERY

                    MUCH.

                                 ON THE BILL --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. TANNOUSIS: -- MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 YOU KNOW, IT'S A LITTLE BIT INSULTING TO OUR INTELLIGENCE

                    TO SIT HERE AND WE KNOW THAT THERE WERE TEN NEW YORK CITY JUDGES, TEN

                    JUDGES PROPOSED IN THIS BUDGET FOR NEW YORK CITY.  CERTAIN BOROUGHS

                    GOT CERTAIN AMOUNT OF JUDGES.  AND NOW WE'RE EXPECTED TO BELIEVE THAT

                    ALL OF THESE ARE MADE IN REGARDS TO THE DEMAND INSTEAD OF ANY OTHER

                    FACTOR.  STATEN ISLAND HAS TWO MUNICIPAL DISTRICTS.  THE ONE THAT

                    PARTICULARLY -- MAY PARTICULARLY FAVOR ONE PARTY OVER ANOTHER HAPPENS

                    TO BE THE ONE THAT THEY CREATE THE JUDICIAL SEAT FOR.  WHO HERE NOW

                    BELIEVES THAT OCA CREATED THESE?  I FIND THAT HARD TO BELIEVE.  I VOTE

                    NO!

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUICK QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  I HAVE TO TELL YOU, MR. PRETLOW,

                                         128



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    FROM MY DAYS OF WORKING FOR OUR PREVIOUS COLLEAGUE JIM HAYES WHEN

                    HE USED TO DEBATE DENNY FARRELL.  YOU'RE VERY REMINISCE AND YOUR STYLE

                    VERY MUCH STILL REMINDS ME OF THE LATE GREAT DENNY FARRELL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I REMEMBER MR. HAYES.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  YOU'RE GIVING OFF MR. FARRELL

                    VIBES, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 OKAY.  SO A FEW -- FEW QUICK QUESTIONS FOR YOU.  I JUST

                    WANT TO CLARIFY SOME THINGS.  SO WOULD YOU AGREE THAT OUR GOAL IS TO --

                    TO SOLVE A STAFFING CRISIS WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.  I WOULD AGREE TO THAT,

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  THEN TO HOLISTICALLY JUST

                    LOOKING AT IT FROM A THOUSAND FOOT VIEW, IS IT TO FIX A STAFFING CRISIS OR IS

                    IT TO FIX THE RATIO OF CORRECTIONS OFFICERS TO INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE DETERMINATION AS TO THE

                    NUMBER OF -- OF -- OF OFFICERS IN THE FACILITIES IS MADE BY THE

                    COMMISSIONER OF DOCCS.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SO IF HE OR SHE OR CURRENTLY IS A HE

                    IS USING THE RATIO OF DOCCS EMPLOYEES TO INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS

                    AND THAT'S HOW THEY DO IT, HE'S THE EXPERT IN THIS.  MY ASSUMPTION IS THAT

                    HE'S AN EXPERT IN THIS BY VIRTUE OF HIS POSITION.  WE ARE NOT EXPERTS.  I

                    DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE IN THIS ROOM IS AN EXPERT ON CORRECTIONS.  SO WE'RE

                    LETTING THEM DO WHAT THEIR JOB IS.  CERTAIN REQUESTS WERE MADE BY THE

                    COMMISSIONER TO THE GOVERNOR TO PUT CERTAIN THINGS IN THE BUDGET AS IT

                    PERTAINS -- AS IT PERTAINS TO STAFFING, AS IT PERTAINS TO BODY CAMERAS,

                                         129



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    EVEN AS IT PERTAINS TO THE PERMISSION TO CONSOLIDATE INCARCERATED

                    INDIVIDUALS BY VIRTUE OF CLOSING INSTITUTIONS.  THIS IS ALL DONE THROUGH

                    THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  THANK YOU.  IT'S A -- IT'S A CRITICAL

                    POINT TO -- TO HARP IN ON, BECAUSE AGAIN, I MEAN OBVIOUSLY WE'VE ALL,

                    YOU KNOW, BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT'S HAPPENING SINCE THE

                    BEGINNING OF THE YEAR REALLY WITH -- WITH, YOU KNOW, OUR CORRECTIONS

                    OFFICERS.  AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE HEARD IS -- IS, YOU

                    KNOW, EARLY RELEASE, WE'VE SEEN THAT A LITTLE BIT, SO I'M JUST TRYING TO

                    HONE IN ON THE INTENT OF SOME OF THESE REFORMS TO SEE IS IT REALLY TO

                    BRING UP OUR STAFFING NUMBERS, OR IS IT TO KIND OF CLIMB THE NEXUS POINT

                    OF BRINGING UP STAFFING AND BRINGING DOWN THE -- THE NUMBER OF

                    INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS, WHICH ACTUALLY LEAVES ME TO KIND OF ANOTHER

                    QUESTION.

                                 SO, SOME OF THE -- IN THE TIME THAT WE HAVE SEEN THAT

                    KIND OF CRISIS WITHIN DOCCS AND THE STRIKING IN OUR COUNTY FACILITIES

                    HAVE ACTUALLY HAD AN INFLUX OF STATE HOLDS, WHICH ARE PAID AT A LOWER --

                    WHICH IS PAID AT ABOUT $100 I THINK PER -- PER NIGHT.  OUR FEDERAL HOLDS

                    I THINK ARE AT $148 A NIGHT.  SO I HAVE SOME SHERIFFS AND CORRECTIONS IN

                    MY DISTRICT THAT HAVE HAD TO TURN AWAY FEDERAL HOLDS BECAUSE OF THE

                    INFLUX OF STATE.  SO MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE ANY FUNDING IN THIS -- IN

                    THIS BUDGET OR IN LANGUAGE THAT WOULD REIMBURSE OR MAKE WHOLE THE

                    COUNTIES THAT HAVE HAD TO TURN AWAY FEDERAL HOLDS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  THEN I WANT TO FLIP OVER TO

                                         130



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    -- BACK TO PART HH, WHICH TALKS ABOUT THE REPORT.  WHAT IS THE INTENT OF

                    THE REPORT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE INTENT OF THE COURT?

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  SORRY.  HOLD ON.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 IT IS THE -- OH, HERE WE GO.  THE CORRECTIONS

                    COMMISSION REPORT.

                                 NOW, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE CITIZENS' POLICY

                    AND COMPLAINT REVIEW COUNCIL THAT ALREADY EXISTS, BUT WHAT WE'RE

                    ADDING IS NOW THERE IS A REPORT THAT THAT COUNCIL HAS TO -- OR

                    COMMISSION HAS TO PRODUCE, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  WHAT IS THE INTENT OF THAT

                    REPORT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SPEAKER:  OKAY.  IT'S MY BELIEF

                    THAT THIS DONE -- BEING DONE TO CREATE MORE TRANSPARENCY WITHIN THE

                    SYSTEM.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  THIS ISN'T I GOTCHA THING.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, NO, NO.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  I'M GENERALLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, NO.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  SO IN ONE OF THE PARTS THERE IT SAYS,

                    THE COMMISSION SHALL MAINTAIN A WEBSITE THAT ALLOWS THE SUBMISSION

                    OF WRITTEN COMPLAINTS REGARDING ANY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY AND PROVIDES

                    THE COMMISSION TO ADDRESS FOR THE RECEIPT OF COMPLIANCE BY MAIL.  THE

                                         131



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    COMMISSION SHOULD PROMULGATE RULES REQUIRING CORRECTIONS FACILITIES TO

                    PROVIDE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS IN WRITING THE WEBSITE'S MAILING

                    ADDRESS.  IS THIS ALSO ELIGIBLE FOR COS TO SUBMIT COMPLAINTS AND

                    THOUGHTS AS WELL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I WOULD IMAGINE SO, YES.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  PERFECT.  THANK YOU.

                                 AND THEN MY LAST QUESTION WOULD BE THIS:  SO PART SS,

                    WHICH IS THE -- I THINK IT'S THE 20 -- 20 YEARS FOR NEW YORK CITY

                    CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.  OH, SORRY.  NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO. POLICE (INDISCERNIBLE) OVER 20

                    YEARS IS ONLY FOR POLICE OFFICERS.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NOT CORRECTION OFFICERS.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  YES, WHICH IS -- WHICH IS

                    MY POINT.  I THINK THIS WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER.  HAS THERE BEEN ANY TALK,

                    DISCUSSION OR CONCERN THAT NOW THAT THE PENSION BENEFIT OCCURS EARLIER

                    MIGHT BE BETTER, THERE MIGHT BE NEW YORK CITY CORRECTIONS OFFICERS

                    THAT LEAVE TO GO WORK AT THE NYPD BECAUSE THAT THEIR BENEFIT IS BETTER,

                    ONLY FURTHER EXACERBATING THE STAFFING CRISIS AND SHORTAGE WITHIN NEW

                    YORK CITY COS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS A POSSIBILITY, BUT WE HAVE

                    THAT -- WE HAVE THAT DISCREPANCY IN MANY OTHER AREAS, AND THERE IS AS I

                    MENTIONED EARLIER TO ONE OF OUR -- OUR COLLEAGUES THAT I HAVE THE SAME

                    EXPERIENCE WHERE -- WHERE IT'S CALLED A BADGE TRAIN WHERE POLICE

                    OFFICERS LEAVE ONE COMMUNITY TO GO TO ANOTHER, LEAVING RIGHT NEXT DOOR

                                         132



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    AND, YOU KNOW --

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  YUP.

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- EVEN TEN, 15 PERCENT INCREASE.  IT

                    HOLDS TRUE WITH PENSIONS, ALSO.  WE HAVE DIFFERENT PENSION SYSTEMS FOR

                    PARK POLICE OR NEW YORK CITY POLICE VERSUS NEW YORK STATE POLICE.

                    THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT SYSTEMS THAT EACH OF THOSE GAIN THROUGH

                    SOME FORM OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.  SO YES, THERE ARE DIFFERENCES AND

                    EVERYONE THAT'S IN A POSITION, WHICHEVER POSITION THEY'RE IN KNEW THAT

                    BEFORE THEY TOOK THE JOB.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  I MEAN JUST -- THERE'S REALLY

                    NOT A QUESTION HERE BUT TO DRIVE HOME THE POINT, I GUESS I'LL GO ON THE

                    BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. PRETLOW.

                                 IN 2019 OUR NEW YORK CITY CORRECTIONS OFFICER

                    NUMBER WAS AT -- WAS AT 9,600.  IT IS NOW AT 4,800 WITH OUR

                    INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS BEING CURRENTLY AT 7,500.  THOSE -- THOSE ARE

                    KIND OF SCARY NUMBERS, AND I GUESS ONE DATE THAT I'LL REMEMBER IN MY

                    CAREER WAS OCTOBER 13, 2021.  AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE DAY THAT I WAS

                    ABOUT TO TOUR WENDE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY WITH MY PREDECESSOR AND

                    BOSS AT THE TIME ASSEMBLYMAN MIKE NORRIS.  THAT WAS A

                    TRANSFORMATIVE DAY FOR ME.  I HAD NEVER BEEN IN A MAXIMUM SECURITY

                    PRISON.  THAT WAS A -- IT WAS AN EXPERIENCE UNLIKE ANY OTHER.  AND I

                    TRIED TO SEE IT FROM EVERYONE'S ANGLE, BOTH THE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS

                    AND THE COS AS WELL, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT -- THAT TRULY STUCK OUT TO

                    ME WAS -- WAS IN FACT THE RATIOS.  WALKING THROUGH THE HALLS AND

                    WALKING THROUGH SOME OF THE -- THE ROOMS, WHETHER IT WAS THE

                                         133



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    VOCATIONAL SERVICES, WHETHER IT WAS, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE YARD, THERE

                    WERE INFINITELY MORE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS THAN ACTUAL COS.  AND,

                    YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT HAPPENS BUT I MYSELF DIDN'T

                    EXACTLY FEEL SAFE IN THERE.  SO I COULDN'T IMAGINE WHAT IT FELT OR FEELS

                    LIKE FOR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS IN THOSE -- YOU KNOW, IN THOSE PRECARIOUS

                    SITUATIONS.

                                 SO, AGAIN, I THINK THAT -- THAT WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF, YOU

                    KNOW, TALK ABOUT RESPECTING EVERYONE'S POINT OF VIEW AND I -- I THINK

                    THAT'S GOOD HERE, BUT I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE AFTER TALKING

                    WITH A NUMBER OF COS AND LISTENING TO SOME OF THEIR -- THEIR CONCERNS

                    AND, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE TIME AWAY FROM THEIR FAMILIES, THE HOURS THAT

                    THEY WORK AND THE CONDITIONS THAT THEY WORK UNDER, I JUST WANT TO MAKE

                    SURE THAT WE ARE MAINTAINING AN OPEN LINE OF COMMUNICATION WITH

                    THEM GOING FORWARD.  SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. LEMONDES.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    WILL THE CHAIR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU.  MY OVERALL

                    COMMENTS ARE WITH RESPECT TO THE CLOSURE NOTIFICATION TIME PERIOD AND

                    CONTEXT THEREIN.  I'M JUST WONDERING IF YOU HAVE EVER PERSONALLY CLOSED

                                         134



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ANY LARGE FACILITIES IN YOUR CAREER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  HAVE I PERSONALLY CLOSED ANY LARGE

                    FACILITIES?

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OTHER THAN MY APARTMENT DOOR, NO.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THE REASON I ASK THAT IS I BELIEVE

                    THAT WE HAVE A 90 -- WE HAVE A -- WE HAVE A 90 DAY NOTICE HERE.  I'VE

                    CLOSED MANY FACILITIES IN MY CAREER.  NINETY DAYS IS NOTHING.  THIS

                    EXTREMELY DISRUPTIVE TO FAMILIES, TO THE CAREERS OF THE INDIVIDUALS

                    THEMSELVES, TO OUR WHOLE ENTIRE INFRASTRUCTURE.  AND SO AS THE

                    REPRESENTATIVE OF THE AUBURN PRISON [SIC], WHICH OUR COMMUNITY

                    DEPENDS ON THAT -- ON THAT FACILITY.  THAT FACILITY DOES -- DOES

                    EXCEPTIONAL WORK MAINTAINING OUR SECURITY INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT LIVING

                    UNDER THE THREAT OF CONSTANT CLOSURE, I THINK IS REALLY DETRIMENTAL TO OUR

                    WORKFORCE.  AND THAT LEADS ME TO ASK THE QUESTION, DO YOU BELIEVE A

                    LEADER'S JOB IS TO INCITE FEAR OR CONFIDENCE IN THEIR PEOPLE, GROUP,

                    ORGANIZATION, FAMILY --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I WOULD SAY CONFIDENCE.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, BUT THIS

                    POLICY BY ITSELF DOES JUST THE OPPOSITE IN A PERPETUAL STATE, WHICH I

                    THINK IS -- IS EXCEPTIONALLY DANGEROUS FOR MULTIPLE REASONS WHICH WE

                    DON'T HAVE TIME TO GO INTO.  SO I -- I WOULD ASK THAT WE CONSIDER

                    CHANGING THIS TIME FRAME RIGHT NOW TODAY, TOMORROW FROM 90 DAYS TO

                    ONE YEAR AT A MINIMUM TO DO JUSTICE TO THE PEOPLES WHOSE LIVES ARE

                                         135



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    TORN APART, THROWN UPSIDE DOWN, KICKED TO THE CURB AND FORGOTTEN

                    ABOUT.  AND THAT IMPACTS EVERYTHING.  THAT IMPACTS SAFETY WITHIN THE

                    FACILITIES, THAT IMPACTS THE OFFICERS, IT IMPACTS THOSE THAT ARE SENTENCED,

                    IT IMPACTS EVERYBODY.  SO I JUST WANT TO THAT LEAVE -- LEAVE THAT TOPIC

                    WITH THAT QUESTION ABOUT EXPANSION.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. LEMONDES:  THANK YOU.

                                 WITH RESPECT TO THIS PARTICULAR BILL, I PERSONALLY WILL

                    NOT VOTE FOR IT FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS:  ITS LACK OF TRANSPARENCY, ITS

                    INJUSTICE TO OUR CO COMMUNITIES AND THEIR FAMILIES AND ITS

                    DESTABILIZING EFFECTS TO OUR OVERALL SECURITY INFRASTRUCTURE, ITS GENERAL

                    UNSUSTAINABILITY, $454 [SIC] BILLION IN A STATE WITH THE HIGHEST

                    OUT-MIGRATING POPULATION IN THE NATION.  AND OH, BY THE WAY, IN CASE

                    ANYBODY'S CHECKED, WE HAVE BEEN RANKED DEAD LAST FOR THE 12TH

                    CONSECUTIVE YEAR IN ECONOMIC OUTLOOK.  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.

                                 TODAY I RISE NOT JUST AS A LEGISLATOR OR A MEMBER OF

                    THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNET AND NEW TECHNOLOGY --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ARE YOU ON THE BILL,

                    SIR?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SORRY, YES.  ON THE BILL.

                                         136



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 NOT JUST AS A MEMBER OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON

                    INTERNET AND NEW TECHNOLOGY, BUT ALSO AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF MY

                    DISTRICT ON LONG ISLAND.  AS SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT THE PLIGHT OF

                    FAMILIES, OF PARENTS, OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO HAVE -- WHO EXPECT THEIR

                    GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT THEM FROM THE DARKEST THREATS THAT COME FROM

                    MODERN TECHNOLOGIES.

                                 LAST SESSION I INTRODUCED A PIECE A LEGISLATION, THE

                    NEW YORK STATE AI CHILD SAFETY ACT TO FINALLY BRING JUSTICE INTO THE

                    21ST CENTURY TO CLOSE A DANGEROUS LOOPHOLE IN OUR STATE'S PENAL LAW

                    THAT ALLOW PREDATORS TO EXPLOIT INNOCENT VICTIMS THROUGH DEEP FAKE

                    PORNOGRAPHY AND WALK AWAY WITH A SLAP ON THE WRIST.  TODAY I'M PROUD

                    TO SAY THAT THE FIGHT THAT I WAGE, THE ADVOCACY THAT I LEAD ALONGSIDE

                    DEDICATED ADVOCATES AND LEADERS HAS MADE ITS WAY INTO THIS YEAR'S STATE

                    BUDGET.  WHILE I CANNOT IN GOOD CONSCIENCE SUPPORT EVERY PROVISION

                    WITHIN THE OMNIBUS BUDGET BILL, I WILL NOT SHY AWAY FROM PRAISING

                    WHEN WE GET IT RIGHT.  THIS PROVISION, PART L IS A WIN FOR NEW YORKERS,

                    FOR NASSAU COUNTY AND FOR LONG ISLAND.  IT'S A WIN FOR THE CHILDREN AND

                    FAMILIES WHO HAVE SUFFERED IN SILENCE.  IT IS A WIN FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT

                    AND PROSECUTORS WHO FOR TOO LONG HAVE LACKED THE TOOLS THEY NEED TO

                    PROSECUTE DANGEROUS CRIMINALS.  LET ME BE CLEAR.  THIS IS A PERSONAL

                    VICTORY FOR ME AND FOR NASSAU COUNTY.  THE VERSION I INTRODUCED WENT

                    EVEN FURTHER TO ENSURE THAT CRIMINALS LIKE PATRICK CAREY, A MAN WHO

                    USED DEEP FAKE PORNOGRAPHY TO TERRORIZE 11 YOUNG GIRLS AND WOMEN

                    FROM MACARTHUR HIGH SCHOOL JUST A FEW YEARS AGO IN LEVITTOWN WOULD

                    FACE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES FOR THEIR DEPRAVED ACTIONS.  THIS HEINOUS

                                         137



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    INDIVIDUAL USED ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO CREATE VILE SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

                    CONTENT USING THE IMAGES AND FACES OF YOUNG GIRLS HE KNEW MANY OF

                    THEM STILL IN MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL.  HE USED THESE IMAGES AND

                    VIDEOS POSTING THEM ONLINE ON PORNOGRAPHIC WEBSITES INCLUDING THEIR

                    NAME, THEIR ADDRESSES, THEIR PHONE NUMBERS, THEIR PERSONAL

                    INFORMATION.  HE ENCOURAGED OTHERS TO THREATEN THEM AND HE MADE

                    THEIR LIVES A LIVING NIGHTMARE.  AND YET, UNDER THE OUTDATED LAWS THAT

                    EXIST IN OUR PENAL CODE HE WAS ONLY ABLE TO BE SENTENCED FOR SIX

                    MONTHS.  SIX MONTHS!  WHY?  BECAUSE OUR LAW DID NOT CONSIDER THAT

                    DIGITAL MANIPULATION AND DEEP FAKES WOULD BE A REAL CRIME AS A

                    CRIMINAL CONDUCT UNLESS THE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY COULD BE PROVEN.  THIS

                    WAS A LOOPHOLE.  THIS WAS A FAILURE AND THIS IS WHAT HAD TO CHANGE IN

                    PART L.  IT IS TIME -- IT IS TIME I'D LIKE TO THANK THE TIRELESS WORK OF

                    NASSAU COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY ANNE DONNELLY FOR HER TIRELESS WORK

                    IN THIS HORROR STORY.  A CASE THAT SICKENED EVERY PARENT ON LONG ISLAND.

                    DA DONNELLY NOT ONLY PURSUED THIS CASE WITH DETERMINATION, SHE ALSO

                    CALLED ON THIS LEGISLATURE TO ACT.  SHE PROPOSED REAL SOLUTIONS AND

                    PROUD THAT WE ANSWERED THE CALL TODAY.  TO THE VICTIMS, TO THE YOUNG

                    GIRLS, TO THOSE WHO WERE BRAVE ENOUGH TO COME FORWARD TO FACE THEIR

                    ABUSER TO TESTIFY IN COURT AND TO DEMAND JUSTICE, THIS CHANGE IN THIS LAW

                    IS FOR YOU.  YOUR VOICES WERE NOT IN VAIN.  YOU ARE HEARD NOT JUST IN

                    NASSAU COUNTY BUT IN YOUR STATEHOUSE TODAY.  WE STILL HAVE MORE

                    WORK TO DO AND I BELIEVE THIS LAW SHOULD GO FURTHER, THAT OUR JUSTICE

                    SYSTEM MUST TREAT THIS CONDUCT NOT JUST AS A NEW FORM OF HARASSMENT

                    BUT AS A DIRECT ASSAULT ON CHILDREN.  BUT I'M GRATEFUL TODAY THAT WE TOOK

                                         138



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MEANINGFUL STEPS IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BECAUSE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

                    PUBLIC SAFETY WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT THE VIOLENCE ON THE STREETS

                    ANYMORE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW NEW TECHNOLOGIES LIKE DEEP FAKES

                    CAN BE WEAPONIZED, CAN BE USED AGAINST CHILDREN, AND IF WE FAIL TO ACT

                    TO IGNORE THESE NEW THREATS, THEN WE ARE NOT DOING OUR JOB.  SO WHILE I

                    CANNOT VOTE FOR THIS ENTIRE BUDGET I STAND HERE TO SAY THIS:  I AM PROUD

                    OF OUR ADVOCACY.  I AM PROUD OF OUR ADVOCATES WHO FOUGHT HARD, AND

                    I'M HAPPY TO DELIVER JUSTICE TO THESE VICTIMS. I THANK DISTRICT ATTORNEY

                    ANNE DONNELLY FOR HER LEADERSHIP.  AND I THANK THE BRAVE VICTIMS WHO

                    REFUSED TO BE SILENCED AND WORKED HARD TO MAKE SURE THIS COULD GET

                    DONE.  AND I PROMISED THEM THIS:  I WILL NOT STOP FIGHTING UNTIL THIS LAW

                    REFLECTS THE REALITIES IN OUR COMMUNITY.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  A PARTY VOTE HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  THE

                    REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE

                    OF LEGISLATION, BUT SHOULD MEMBERS WISH TO VOTE YES THEY CAN CERTAINLY

                    DO SO AT THEIR SEATS NOW.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                         139



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GENERALLY GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF

                    THIS BILL; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN

                    EXCEPTION, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. LAVINE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE,

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THANKS MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING.  THERE'S BEEN A BIT OF

                    CONFUSION WITH RESPECT TO THE NUMBER OF JUDGES THAT WE ARE GOING TO

                    PROVIDE FOR IN THIS BUDGET.  AND YES, THERE ARE TEN JUDGES FOR NEW

                    YORK CITY WHERE WE STILL FACE THE HEAVIEST OF BACKLOGS.  HOWEVER, IT'S

                    NOT AS IF THERE AREN'T OTHER JUDGES FOR OTHER PARTS OF NEW YORK STATE,

                    BECAUSE WE WILL NOW BE PROVIDING FOR FIVE ADDITIONAL COURT OF CLAIMS

                    JUDGES WHO CAN SERVE ANYWHERE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND THEY CAN

                    ALSO SERVE AS ACTING SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, JUDGES RATHER, ANYWHERE

                    IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO HELP ALLEVIATE OVERCROWDING AND BACKLOG

                    BURDENS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

                                 SO, WITH THAT BEING SAID, AND I'M SURE WE ALL RECOGNIZE

                    THE AND REALIZE THAT, BUT I'M GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I

                    APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.  MR.

                    LAVINE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. MAHER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                         140



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. MAHER:  I RISE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                                 I REALLY WAS ENCOURAGED HONESTLY FROM MY COLLEAGUES

                    ACROSS THE AISLE THAT AGREED WITH SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT WERE BROUGHT

                    UP IN MY DEBATE AND THE QUESTIONS THAT I ASKED, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT

                    COMES TO SHOWING GENUINE AND REAL EMOTION ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT

                    WE'RE HITTING ON ALL SIDES OF THE ISSUES SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO

                    OUR PRISONS.  FOR MY TWO YEARS AND THREE YEARS NOW HEADING IN HERE I

                    CAN SAY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE THAT THIS HAS BEEN ONE-SIDED.  WHEN IT

                    COMES TO MAKING A CORRECTION AND HAVING THE PENDULUM SWING IN A --

                    IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, YES, I BELIEVE THERE ARE PLENTY OF FOLKS THAT CAN

                    MAKE AN ARGUMENT AND I CAN MAKE ONE AS WELL THAT SAYS WE NEEDED TO

                    MAKE SOME CHANGES, BUT I THINK THAT PENDULUM HAS SWUNG WAY TOO FAR

                    TO POINT WHERE IT HAS IMPACTED OUR PRISON SYSTEMS AND EVERYONE

                    INVOLVED; CORRECTIONS OFFICERS, CIVILIAN STAFF AND THOSE THAT ARE

                    INCARCERATED IN A NEGATIVE WAY.  SO WHILE I VOTE NO ON THIS BUDGET BILL I

                    AM GOING TO HOLD ON TO THE HOPE IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND IN THE

                    STATEMENTS THAT WERE MADE THAT WE CAN TACKLE THIS ISSUE TOGETHER IN A

                    BIPARTISAN WAY THAT REALLY DOES SERVE EVERYONE.  I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. MAHER IN THE

                    NEGATIVE.

                                 MR. DILAN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. DILAN:  MADAM SPEAKER, I DIDN'T INTEND TO DO

                    THIS AGAIN, BUT THERE ARE PARTS THAT I DIDN'T SPEAK ON EARLIER, AND THERE'S

                    ANOTHER ASPECT OF THIS BILL THAT I WISH WERE NOT DOING TODAY AND THAT IS

                                         141



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE ALLOWING FOR THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO

                    BECOME A CORRECTION OFFICER IN THE FIRST PLACE.  I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT

                    UPON US TO DO A BETTER JOB RECRUITING WITHIN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, BUT

                    GIVEN WHERE WE ARE I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THIS, BUT WHEN I SAY

                    HOLISTICALLY I ALSO MEAN IN THE WORKFORCE, TOO.  I WOULD LOVE TO SEE

                    MORE DIVERSITY AMONGST THE RANKS OF A NEW YORK STATE CORRECTION

                    OFFICER.  I THINK WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB RECRUITING, PARTICULARLY IN

                    THE AREAS UPSTATE AND COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.  YOU KNOW, WE -- WE --

                    WE HAD AND STILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT, AND WHILE THERE'S NO

                    FUNDS IN THIS BUDGET FOR THAT, I WISH THERE WERE, IT'S SOMETHING THAT I

                    THINK WE -- WE -- WE -- WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT.  NOW WHEN I SAID

                    EARLIER HOLISTICALLY, YOU KNOW, I -- I MEANT THAT YES, WE DO

                    ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE ARE WORKFORCE PROBLEMS, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO

                    ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE ARE STILL PROBLEMS REMAINING IN REGARDS TO THE

                    HUMANE TREATMENT OF INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS AND IT WOULD BE GREAT TO

                    HEAR BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WHAT WE ALSO WE

                    KNOW IS UNFAIR.  SO IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT IN A REAL HUMAN

                    WAY, I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING ANYONE AND EVERYONE, BUT I MEAN IF

                    WE'RE GOING TO DO THE BIPARTISAN POLITICS, THEN IT FORCES ME AS A

                    DEMOCRAT TO PUT MY GUARD UP AND -- AND PLAY FOR MY TEAM, BECAUSE AT

                    THE END OF THE DAY THAT -- THAT -- THAT'S WHAT I AM, BUT I THINK A FAIR,

                    UNBIASED POLICY WILL KEEP THE ENTIRE SYSTEM SAFE AND KEEP EVERYONE IN

                    IT SAFE.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I VOTE YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.  MR.

                                         142



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    DILAN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN THE VOTE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 SO UNFORTUNATELY I WASN'T ABLE TO REALLY TALK ABOUT THIS

                    WHEN I WENT ON THE BILL EARLIER JUST BECAUSE OF A FEW THINGS, SO I

                    WANTED TO JUST MENTION HOW REALLY DUMB I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S IDEA IS

                    TO ALLOW 18- TO 21-YEAR-OLDS TO COME AND WORK IN THESE CORRECTIONAL

                    FACILITIES.

                                 YOU KNOW, MY DAD WAS 19 YEARS OLD WHEN HE FOUGHT

                    IN WORLD WAR II AS A -- AS A NAVY SEAMAN, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT

                    THAT GREATEST GENERATION IS ONE THING, BUT AS A PARENT OF SIX KIDS

                    INCLUDING AN 18-YEAR-OLD AND A 20-YEAR-OLD AND A FEW OLDER, A LITTLE BIT

                    OLDER THAN THAT, AND I DON'T MEAN TO -- I'M NOT TRYING AT ALL TO THROW

                    SHADE ON THAT WHOLE GENERATION, BUT IN TERMS OF LEVELS OF MATURITY, I --

                    IT'S JUST -- IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT THERE, IT'S JUST NOT THERE.

                    THAT'S KIND OF WHY WE'RE DOING THE WHOLE CELL PHONE BAN, I THINK, IN

                    SCHOOLS IS THAT WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT -- THAT IT'S NOT THERE.  THE

                    LEVEL OF MATURITY IS NOT THERE AND LET'S FACE IT.  BEING A CORRECTIONS

                    OFFICER, PARTICULARLY TODAY, IS AN ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE JOB.  I -- I -- THAT

                    -- AND -- AND THAT'S WHY WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY GOING INTO THIS FIELD

                    AND WE DON'T TREAT THEM WITH THE KIND OF RESPECT AND THE BENEFITS AND

                    UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY DESERVE.  AND FRANKLY, IF YOU LOOK AT OUR LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT, THAT'S WHY THE CITY OF ALBANY IS DOWN I DON'T KNOW HOW

                    MANY POLICE OFFICERS.  WE CAN'T GET PEOPLE TO BE POLICE OFFICERS EITHER

                    ANYMORE.  SO I JUST -- I JUST WANTED TO GO ON THE RECORD SAYING THAT I'VE

                                         143



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    HEARD MUCH BETTER IDEAS THAN THIS ONE AND IT'S JUST ONE OF SEVERAL

                    REASONS WHY I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THIS BILL.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.  MS.

                    WALSH IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. CLARK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. CLARK:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ONE SMALL PART OF THIS BUDGET BILL THAT WAS NOT REALLY

                    DISCUSSED TODAY BUT I AM VERY, VERY PROUD OF HAS TO DO WITH THE WAY

                    WE SUPPORT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE VICTIMS. RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU ARE TRYING

                    TO LEAVE A -- A RELATIONSHIP WHERE THERE MAY BE SOME ABUSE HAPPENING,

                    THERE ARE A LOT OF BARRIERS, A LOT OF FINANCIAL BARRIERS THAT MAKE IT HARD TO

                    MAKE THAT DECISION.  AS WE TRY TO SUPPORT THOSE SURVIVORS AND ENSURE

                    THAT THEY GET PUBLIC BENEFITS WHEN THEY QUALIFY, THERE IS THIS PROCESS BY

                    WHICH THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE VICTIMS IN A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

                    CASE.  THIS OFTEN PUTS THEM IN MORE DANGER BECAUSE IT REQUIRES

                    DOCUMENTATION OR SOME SORT OF NOTICE TO WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE

                    THEIR ABUSER, SO WHAT WE ARE CHANGING HERE, WHICH IS A PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION I HAVE CHAMPIONED FOR A LONG TIME IS TO ALLOW FOR

                    SELF-ATTESTATION TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO HAVE A MUCH EASIER ROAD TO SECURING

                    THE BENEFITS THEY NEED TO ECONOMICALLY TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES AND

                    THEIR BASIC NEEDS WHILE THEY ESCAPE WHAT IS OFTEN A VERY HORRIBLE

                    SITUATION.  SO I'M VERY PROUD TO HAVE THAT BE PART OF THIS BUDGE BILL AND

                    VERY PROUD TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.  MS.

                                         144



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CLARK IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 AS I LISTENED TODAY ABOUT THE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS I

                    WANT TO PUT THIS IN A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.  AS MUCH LIKE US AS PARENTS,

                    WE HAVE CHILDREN THAT WE RAISE AND BRING FORWARD; SOME ARE REALLY

                    GOOD AND SOME ARE REALLY BAD, BUT THE ONE THING WE ALL HAVE IN

                    COMMON IS WE LOVE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE CHILDREN.  MUCH LIKE

                    OUR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS THAT DO THIS EVERY SINGLE DAY GOING INTO A PLACE

                    THAT'S NOT VERY NICE HAVING GONE THROUGH SEVERAL OF THEM, GIVING THEM

                    THE ABILITY TO DO THEIR JOB, SHOWING THEM THAT WE DO CARE ABOUT THEM

                    FROM THE STATE SIDE.  THEY'VE TOLD US WHAT'S BEEN GOING WRONG.  WE

                    HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THAT AS A LEGISLATURE.  WE CONTINUE TO FIGHT FOR

                    THEM AND SUPPORT THEM.  AND BY DOING SO, WE CAN KEEP THESE

                    CORRECTIONS OFFICERS, AND IF WE ARE GOING TO BRING IN 18- TO 21-YEAR-OLD

                    YOUNG PEOPLE INTO THE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS' FIELD, MUCH LIKE MY MILITARY

                    SERVICE, WHEN I CAME IN, THE SERGEANTS AND THE NCOS THAT HAD BEEN

                    THERE SO LONG TAUGHT ME SO MUCH.  IF WE CAN'T RETAIN OUR VITAL

                    CORRECTIONS OFFICERS WITH THE EXPERIENCE THAT THEY'VE HAD, THIS IS A TRAIN

                    WRECK WAITING TO HAPPEN.  I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED THAT WE'RE NOT DOING

                    ANYTHING TO HELP OUR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS IN THIS PIECE OF THE BUDGET.  I

                    HOPE TO SEE MORE DOWN THE LINE, BUT FOR THAT REASON I CANNOT SUPPORT IT.

                                 SO THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO

                    SAY SOMETHING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.  MR.

                                         145



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MANKTELOW IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. PHEFFER AMATO:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                                 I'M VERY PROUD OF THIS PIECE OF THE BUDGET FOR THE 20

                    YEAR PENSION FOR THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICERS.  PUBLIC SAFETY IS

                    THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE AMONGST OUR COMMUNITIES AND INCREASING THAT

                    LEVEL TO HELP THE RECRUITMENT RETENTION OF THOSE OFFICERS TO GIVE THEM

                    SUPPORT TO KNOW THAT WE HAVE THEIR BACK I'M VERY PROUD OF THIS BUDGET.

                    AND ON A PERSONAL NOTE, I JUST HAVE TO SAY OUT LOUD, I'M NOT SURE WHAT

                    WE'RE ALL SCARED OF OF 18-YEAR-OLDS.  EIGHTEEN-YEAR-OLDS CAN GET INTO A

                    CIVIL SERVANT CAREER, PENSION BENEFITS AND BE IN THE RIGHT PLACE EVEN IF

                    IT'S IN THE CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES STARTING WORK AND HAVE RESPONSIBILITY.

                    WE SHOULDN'T FEAR OUR 18-YEAR-OLDS.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.  MS.

                    PHEFFER AMATO IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULT.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, IF WE

                    COULD NOW GO TO PAGE 12 OF OUR CALENDAR AND TAKE UP RULES REPORT

                    NO. 181.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.  PAGE

                                         146



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    12, RULES REPORT NO. 181, THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY A03008-C, RULES REPORT

                    NO. 181, BUDGET BILL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO THE WATERFRONT COMMISSION ACT (PART A); TO AMEND PART I OF

                    CHAPTER 413 OF THE LAWS OF 1999 RELATING TO PROVIDING FOR MASS

                    TRANSPORTATION PAYMENTS, IN RELATION TO THE AMOUNT OF PAYMENTS IN THE

                    CENTRAL NEW YORK REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT AND ADDING

                    CORTLAND COUNTY TO SUCH DISTRICT (PART B); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND

                    TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING PROVISIONS RELATED TO A PILOT

                    PROGRAM REGARDING AN INTERNET-BASED PRE-LICENSING COURSE; AND TO

                    AMEND CHAPTER 368 OF THE LAWS OF 2019 AMENDING THE

                    VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND STATE FINANCE LAW RELATING TO

                    ESTABLISHING A PRE-LICENSING COURSE INTERNET PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO

                    EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART C); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND

                    TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO ABANDONED VEHICLES (PART D); INTENTIONALLY

                    OMITTED (PART E); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART F); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED

                    (PART G); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART H); TO AMEND PART PP OF CHAPTER

                    54 OF THE LAWS OF 2016, AMENDING THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW AND THE

                    GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW RELATING TO THE NEW YORK TRANSIT AUTHORITY

                    AND THE METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY, IN RELATION TO

                    EXTENDING PROVISIONS OF LAW RELATING TO CERTAIN TAX INCREMENT

                    FINANCING PROVISIONS (PART I); TO AMEND CHAPTER 929 OF THE LAWS OF

                    1986 AMENDING THE TAX LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO THE

                    METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS THEREOF APPLICABLE TO THE RESOLUTION OF LABOR DISPUTES (PART

                                         147



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    J); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO ACQUISITIONS OR

                    TRANSFERS OF PROPERTY FOR CERTAIN TRANSIT PROJECTS; AND TO AMEND PART

                    VVV OF CHAPTER 58 OF THE LAWS OF 2020 AMENDING THE PUBLIC

                    AUTHORITIES LAW RELATING TO ACQUISITIONS OR TRANSFERS OF PROPERTY FOR

                    TRANSIT PROJECTS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART K); TO

                    AMEND PART UUU OF CHAPTER 58 OF THE LAWS OF 2020 AMENDING THE

                    STATE FINANCE LAW RELATING TO PROVIDING FUNDING FOR THE METROPOLITAN

                    TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY 2020-2024 CAPITAL PROGRAM AND PARATRANSIT

                    OPERATING EXPENSES, IN RELATION TO FUNDING FOR NET PARATRANSIT OPERATING

                    EXPENSES AND IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART L); TO AMEND

                    THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING FUNDING FOR THE

                    METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY 2025-2029 CAPITAL PROGRAM

                    (PART M); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, THE GENERAL

                    MUNICIPAL LAW AND CHAPTER 773OF THE LAWS OF 2021, AMENDING THE

                    VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW RELATING TO

                    ESTABLISHING A DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM ON INTERSTATE ROUTE 278 IN KINGS

                    COUNTY TO ENFORCE VEHICLE WEIGHT RESTRICTION ON SUCH INTERSTATE BY

                    MEANS OF MOBILE OR STATIONARY WEIGH IN MOTION SYSTEMS, IN RELATION TO

                    ESTABLISHING A DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM ON CERTAIN COVERED LOCATIONS TO

                    ENFORCE VEHICLE WEIGHT RESTRICTION ON SUCH INTERSTATE BY MEANS OF

                    MOBILE OR STATIONARY WEIGH IN MOTION SYSTEMS; TO AMEND CHAPTER 773

                    OF THE LAWS OF 2021, AMENDING THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND THE

                    PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM

                    ON INTERSTATE ROUTE 278 IN KINGS COUNTY TO ENFORCE VEHICLE WEIGHT

                    RESTRICTION ON SUCH INTERSTATE BY MEANS OF MOBILE OR STATIONARY WEIGH

                                         148



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IN MOTION SYSTEMS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; AND TO

                    REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF CHAPTER 773 OF THE LAWS OF 2021,

                    AMENDING THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW

                    RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM ON INTERSTATE ROUTE

                    278 IN KINGS COUNTY TO ENFORCE VEHICLE WEIGHT RESTRICTION ON SUCH

                    INTERSTATE BY MEANS OF MOBILE OR STATIONARY WEIGH IN MOTION SYSTEMS,

                    RELATING THERETO (PART N); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART O); INTENTIONALLY

                    OMITTED (PART P); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE SPEED VIOLATION PHOTO MONITORING SYSTEMS PROGRAM IN WORK ZONES

                    INCLUDING AUTHORIZING A PHOTO MONITORING PROGRAM FOR THE TRIBOROUGH

                    BRIDGE AND TUNNEL AUTHORITY AND NEW YORK STATE BRIDGE AUTHORITY;

                    AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 421 OF THE LAWS OF 2021 AMENDING THE VEHICLE

                    AND TRAFFIC LAW AND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW RELATING TO CERTAIN

                    NOTICES OF LIABILITY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING SUCH PROVISIONS (PART Q);

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART R); TO AMEND CHAPTER 495 OF THE LAWS OF

                    2004, AMENDING THE INSURANCE LAW AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING

                    TO THE NEW YORK STATE HEALTH INSURANCE CONTINUATION ASSISTANCE

                    DEMONSTRATION PROJECT, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART S);

                    TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE

                    OLYMPIC REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY TO ENTER INTO AGREEMENTS

                    FOR MEMBERSHIP OF ONE OR MORE OF ITS SKI VENUES IN RECIPROCAL SKI PASS

                    PROGRAMS WHERE SUCH MEMBERS ARE REQUIRED TO GUARANTEE CONTRACTUAL

                    INDEMNITY UP TO A CAPPED AMOUNT (PART T); TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE COMPANION MODELS;

                    AND TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A

                                         149



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SUICIDE PREVENTION FUND (PART U); TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO REFUND POLICIES (PART V); TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTOMATIC RENEWALS (PART W); TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING DISCLOSURE OF ALGORITHMICALLY SET

                    PRICES (PART X); TO AMEND THE BANKING LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

                    REGULATION OF BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER LENDERS (PART Y); TO AMEND THE

                    INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO REPORTING REQUIREMENTS FOR PHARMACY

                    BENEFIT MANAGERS (PART Z); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART AA);

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART BB); TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO FOR HIRE MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE RATES (PART CC);

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART DD); TO AMEND THE NEW YORK STATE URBAN

                    DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION ACT, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE AUTHORITY

                    OF THE NEW YORK STATE URBAN DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION TO ADMINISTER

                    THE EMPIRE STATE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FUND (PART EE); TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 393 OF THE LAWS OF 1994, AMENDING THE NEW YORK STATE

                    URBAN DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION ACT, RELATING TO THE POWERS OF THE

                    NEW YORK STATE URBAN DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION TO MAKE LOANS, IN

                    RELATION TO EXTENDING LOAN POWERS (PART FF); TO AMEND PART BB OF

                    CHAPTER 58 OF THE LAWS OF 2012, AMENDING THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES

                    LAW, RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE DORMITORY AUTHORITY TO ENTER INTO

                    CERTAIN DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT AGREEMENTS, IN RELATION TO

                    THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART GG); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART HH);

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART II); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART JJ); TO

                    AMEND CHAPTER 261 OF THE LAWS OF 1988, AMENDING THE STATE FINANCE

                    LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO THE NEW YORK STATE INFRASTRUCTURE

                                         150



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    TRUST FUND, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; AND TO AMEND THE

                    EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO A POLICY STUDY REGARDING WAYS TO

                    IMPROVE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE MINORITY AND WOMEN-OWNED

                    BUSINESS ENTERPRISE PROGRAM (PART KK); TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO THE EXCELSIOR LINKED DEPOSIT PROGRAM (PART LL); TO

                    AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW AND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO PURCHASING THRESHOLDS (PART MM); TO AMEND THE INSURANCE

                    LAW, THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW AND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    AUTHORIZING THE NEW YORK CONVENTION CENTER OPERATING CORPORATION

                    TO CREATE A PURE CAPTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY (PART NN); INTENTIONALLY

                    OMITTED (PART OO); TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO EXTENDING THE WASTE TIRE MANAGEMENT FEE FOR TWO YEARS AND

                    REMOVING THE EXCLUSION FOR MAIL ORDER SALES (PART PP); TO AMEND PART

                    ZZ OF CHAPTER 55 OF THE LAWS OF 2021 AMENDING THE ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION LAW RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A DEER HUNTING PILOT

                    PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING PROVISIONS OF THE YOUTH DEER

                    HUNTING PROGRAM (PART QQ); TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION LAW, THE STATE FINANCE LAW AND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO THE INACTIVE HAZARDOUS WASTE DISPOSAL SITE

                    PROGRAM (PART RR); TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE RECALL OF CLASS B FIREFIGHTING FOAM AND PROHIBITING THE SALE OR

                    DISTRIBUTION OF FIREFIGHTING PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT THAT CONTAINS

                    INTENTIONALLY ADDED PFAS (PART SS); TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO EXEMPTIONS FOR ANY NOT-FOR-PROFIT TAX EXEMPT CORPORATION OPERATED

                    FOR CONSERVATION, ENVIRONMENTAL, PARKS OR HISTORIC PRESERVATION

                                         151



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PURPOSES (PART TT); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART UU); IN RELATION TO

                    AUTHORIZING THE NEW YORK STATE ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT

                    AUTHORITY TO FINANCE A PORTION OF ITS RESEARCH, DEVELOPMENT AND

                    DEMONSTRATION, POLICY AND PLANNING, AND FUEL NY PROGRAM, AS WELL AS

                    CLIMATE CHANGE RELATED EXPENSES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION FROM AN ASSESSMENT ON GAS AND ELECTRIC CORPORATIONS

                    (PART VV); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART WW); TO AUTHORIZE UTILITY AND

                    CABLE TELEVISION ASSESSMENTS THAT PROVIDE FUNDS TO THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    HEALTH FROM CABLE TELEVISION ASSESSMENT REVENUES AND TO THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS, DEPARTMENT OF STATE, THE

                    OFFICE OF PARKS, RECREATION AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION, AND THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION FROM UTILITY ASSESSMENT

                    REVENUES; REQUIRES ACCOUNTINGS BE SUBMITTED OF SUCH FUNDS; AND

                    PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF

                    (PART XX); TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO INCREASING AND REDIRECTING CIVIL PENALTIES FOR FAILING

                    TO COMPLY WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE'S PRESCRIBED RULES

                    AND REGULATIONS ESTABLISHED FOR THE PROTECTION OF UNDERGROUND

                    FACILITIES; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 522 OF THE LAWS OF 2000, AMENDING

                    THE STATE FINANCE LAW AND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW RELATING TO

                    ESTABLISHING THE UNDERGROUND FACILITIES SAFETY TRAINING ACCOUNT, IN

                    RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART YY); TO AMEND THE TAX LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION AND FINANCE TO

                    DISCLOSE CERTAIN INFORMATION TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION OR THE NEW YORK STATE ENERGY RESEARCH AND

                                         152



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY FOR THE PURPOSE OF IMPLEMENTING THE NEW

                    YORK STATE CLIMATE LEADERSHIP AND COMMUNITY PROTECTION ACT (PART

                    ZZ); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART AAA); IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A

                    COMMISSION TO ENSURE THE REPLACEMENT OF THE STATUE OF ROBERT R.

                    LIVINGSTON IN THE NATIONAL STATUARY HALL OF THE UNITED STATES CAPITOL

                    WITH A STATUE OF HARRIET TUBMAN (PART BBB); TO AMEND THE

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING CERTAIN

                    REBATES FOR CLEAN VEHICLE PROJECTS (PART CCC); TO AMEND THE CANNABIS

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO APPOINTMENTS TO THE CANNABIS CONTROL BOARD AND

                    AGREEMENTS OF SUCH BOARD WITH THE NEW YORK STATE INDIAN NATIONS AND

                    TRIBES (PART DDD); AND TO AMEND THE CANNABIS LAW, IN RELATION TO A

                    SPECIAL LICENSE FEE; TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    MAKING A CONFORMING TECHNICAL CHANGE; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF

                    CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON THE EXPIRATION THEREOF (PART EEE).

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON A MOTION BY MR.

                    PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS

                    ADVANCED.  GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                 THE CLERK:  I HEREBY CERTIFY TO AN IMMEDIATE VOTE,

                    KATHY HOCHUL, GOVERNOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  AN EXPLANATION HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.  THIS BILL WOULD ENACT INTO --

                    INTO LAW MAJOR COMPONENTS OF LEGISLATION THAT IS NECESSARY FOR THE

                                         153



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IMPLEMENTATION OF STATE FISCAL YEAR 2025-'26 BUDGET AS IT PERTAINS TO

                    THE TRANSPORTATION ENVIRONMENT AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BUDGETS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MR. [SIC] SPEAKER.  WILL CHAIR

                    PRETLOW YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.

                                 SO, THIS ONE AS WE KNOW HAS -- GOES THROUGH A -- A

                    NUMBER OF DIFFERENT AREAS SO IF YOU WILL BEAR WITH ME AS I TRY TO GO

                    THROUGH A NUMBER OF THEM.  AND I WANT TO START WITH -- THERE ARE SOME

                    CHANGES THAT WE ARE MAKING WITH REGARD TO THE CANNIBIS CONTROL BOARD

                    AND CLASSIFYING THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE CANNIBIS CONTROL BOARD AS A

                    PUBLIC -- OR I WOULD SAY DECLASSIFYING THE CHAIR AS -- AS A PUBLIC OFFICER.

                    WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THAT CHANGE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE EXECUTIVE FEELS THAT AS A

                    MEMBER OF A BOARD THAT THE OFFICE OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT BOARD

                    CHAIR SHOULD NOT BE A SALARIED INDIVIDUAL BUT BASED ON -- PAID BY PER

                    DIEM.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  NOW I KNOW THAT THAT IS ALSO PART OF

                    THIS BUT, IN TERMS OF THEIR CLASSIFICATION DOES THAT CHANGE, YOU KNOW,

                    ETHICAL OBLIGATIONS THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE IN TERMS OF ETHICS LAWS,

                    DISCLOSURES, CONFLICT OF INTEREST LAW THAT OTHERWISE A PUBLIC OFFICER

                                         154



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHO'S SUBJECT TO SECTION 73 OF THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW WOULD BE

                    SUBJECT TO?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S COMPARED TO THE CHAIRS OF OTHER

                    OVERSIGHT BOARDS.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO ONE OF THE THINGS, AND I THINK

                    WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH -- WITH THIS, THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW BARS GIFTS

                    EXCEEDING $15 FROM LOBBYISTS OR ENTITIES DOING BUSINESS WITH THE

                    BOARD.  IS THERE SOMEWHERE ELSE, THOSE TYPE OF PROHIBITIONS THAT WOULD

                    BE APPLICABLE TO -- TO THIS PERSON WHO'S NO LONGER UNDER SECTION 73?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE STILL SUBJECT TO SECTION 73.

                                 MR. RA:  THEY'RE STILL SUBJECT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  JUST NOT THE SAME WAY, YEAH.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  WHAT -- IS THERE -- I MEAN WHAT --

                    WHAT THINGS WOULD THEY NOT BE SUBJECT TO ANYMORE AS -- AS A RESULT OF

                    BEING RECLASSIFIED AS NOT BEING A PUBLIC OFFICER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'LL STILL HAVE TO FILE THE

                    FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  WOULD THEY -- SO THERE ARE A NUMBER

                    OF PROVISIONS, ONE OF THEM PROHIBITS COMPENSATED ADVISORY SERVICES ON

                    PENDING LEG -- LEGISLATION AFFECTING THE CANNABIS INDUSTRY.  IS THERE A

                    SECTION THAT WOULD PROHIBIT THE CHAIR FROM LOBBYING LAWMAKERS OR --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THEY -- THEY -- THEY CAN DO

                    WHAT THEY WANT BUT THEY CANNOT HAVE ANY INTEREST AT ALL IN THE CANNABIS

                    INDUSTRY.

                                         155



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW 73 ALSO

                    SUBJECTS THE CHAIR TO FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS.  SO THAT WILL

                    STILL BE REQUIRED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND VIOLATIONS ARE -- ARE PUNISHABLE

                    BY PENALTIES UP TO $10,000 AND REFERRAL FOR CRIMINAL PROSECUTION --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE THAT'S THE CASE.

                                 MR. RA:  THAT WOULD STILL BE THE CASE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA: -- FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.  OKAY.  CANNABIS LAW ITSELF

                    OUTLINES THE CHAIRPERSON'S HOURS WHICH INCLUDES THE DIRECT OVERSIGHT OF

                    LICENSING, REGULATIONS AND ENFORCEMENT.  IS THIS POWER DIFFERENT THAN

                    THOSE GRANTED TO THE UNPAID MEMBERS OF THE BOARD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE -- THE POWERS OF THE CHAIR

                    REMAIN THE SAME.  IT'S JUST THAT THEIR NUMERATION IS DIFFERENT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO THE -- SO THE TWO CHANGES ARE IN

                    TERMS OF PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW AND THAT THEY WILL NO LONGER BE A SALARIED

                    INDIVIDUAL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  RATHER A PER DIEM INDIVIDUAL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  THERE ARE A NUMBER OF

                    PROVISIONS ABOUT I WOULD SAY... WELL, TECHNOLOGICAL PROVISIONS MAYBE I

                                         156



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WOULD CALL THEM.  ONE -- ONE IS ABOUT THE IDEA OF DYNAMIC PRICING.

                    CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT PIECE AND WHAT TYPE OF BUSINESSES WOULD BE

                    INCLUDED UNDER THIS DYNAMIC PRICING DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENT?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  IT'S ANY BUSINESS OTHER --

                    OTHER THAN INSURANCE BUSINESS, BANKING AND RIDESHARE.

                                 MR. RA:  SO IT WOULD NOT INCLUDE THOSE TYPES OF

                    BUSINESS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  DOES THE PROVISIONS PROHIBIT ANY

                    COLLECTION OF PERSONAL DATA WHILE EITHER PHYSICALLY AT A STORE OR WHILE

                    USING A STORE WEBSITE FOR (INDISCERNIBLE) USE IN CRAFTING TARGETED

                    DYNAMIC PRICING?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. RA:  AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE

                    TRYING TO STOP BAD ACTORS WHO USE DATA TO TARGET PEOPLE WITH HIGHER

                    PRICES.  YOU KNOW, I THINK IT -- IT'S BEEN DESCRIBED AS -- AS A PRICING

                    DISCRIMINATION THROUGH HIGHER PRICES, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS BILL

                    APPLIES TO DISCOUNTS AS WELL.  SO EVERYONE WOULD BE FORCED TO MAKE THE

                    DISCLOSURE WHETHER THEY'RE BENEFITTING FROM CONSUMERS OR INCREASING

                    PRICES ON THEM; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  REPEAT THAT, PLEASE.

                                 MR. RA:  MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IF YOU'RE USING --

                    USING SOME TYPE OF MODEL FOR DYNAMIC PRICING YOU HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT.

                    SO EVEN IF, SAY, YOU'RE USING IT IN A WAY THAT BENEFITS THE CONSUMER

                                         157



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THROUGH (INDISCERNIBLE) A LOWER PRICE, YOU STILL HAVE TO BE DISCLOSING

                    THAT YOU'RE DOING THAT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  MY CONCERN THEN THAT IF SOMEBODY,

                    YOU KNOW, IF WHAT WE MIGHT THINK IS A BAD ACTOR IS TARGETING PEOPLE

                    WITH HIGHER PRICES THERE'S -- REALLY THEY'RE TREATED THE SAME, WHETHER

                    YOU'RE TRYING TO BENEFIT THE CONSUMER OR YOU'RE TRYING TO INCREASE A

                    PRICE ON THE CONSUMER.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  AND THEN I WONDER, WE HAVE A DISCLOSURE

                    AND WE HAVE -- EVERY PERSON USED -- OR I'M SORRY, EVERY BUSINESS USING

                    IT IS GOING TO HAVE TO DISCLOSE TO THE PUBLIC.  SO IS THERE ANY CONCERN

                    THAT THIS IS GOING TO CAUSE UNNECESSARY CONFUSION TO THE CONSUMERS FOR

                    BEING -- UTILIZING THESE BUSINESSES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, IT SHOULDN'T.  IT'S JUST A ONE LINE

                    DISCLOSURE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  THERE ARE ALSO SOME

                    PROVISIONS RELATED TO AUTOMATIC RENEWAL OF -- OF -- OF SUBSCRIPTIONS AND

                    THINGS OF THAT -- OF THAT NATURE.  IS THAT GOING TO BE UNIVERSALLY

                    APPLICABLE TO -- TO ANY BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, GIVING THOSE TYPE OF

                    SERVICES?  IS THERE ANY RESTRICTION WITH REGARD TO BUSINESS SIZE OR -- OR,

                    YOU KNOW, REVENUE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND SOME OF THE PROVISIONS TALK

                                         158



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW TO GIVE THIS, YOU KNOW, NOTICE; LARGER TYPE,

                    CONTRASTING TYPE, FONT, COLOR.  WHO'S GOING TO BE PROVIDING ANY

                    GUIDANCE TO THESE BUSINESSES ON HOW THEY MAKE SURE THEY ARE

                    FOLLOWING THESE PROVISIONS?  WOULD IT BE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL?

                    WOULD THERE BE A STATE AGENCY THAT WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS IS, I BELIEVE, MATCHES FEDERAL

                    REQUIREMENTS, SO THE GUIDELINES ARE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

                                 MR. RA:  THEY WOULD BE THE SAME AS THE FEDERAL

                    REQUIREMENTS,

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  AND ARE THERE SOME TYPES OF SERVICES THAT

                    ARE NOT COVERED BY THIS OR IS IT ANY -- ANY CONTINUOUS OR AUTOMATIC

                    RENEWAL SERVICES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE THAT PUBLIC UTILITY --

                    THERE'S ALREADY EXCEPTIONS THAT PUBLIC UTILITIES IS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE.

                                 MR. RA:  PUBLIC UTILITIES, OKAY.

                                 THERE'S ALSO A VERY, I GUESS, INTERESTING PROVISION THAT

                    WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH FROM A PIECE OF STANDALONE LEGISLATION WE LOOKED AT

                    EARLIER THIS YEAR WITH REGARD TO THE AI COMPANION SYSTEMS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  SO DOES THIS MATCH THAT BILL, THAT STANDALONE

                    BILL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, IT DOESN'T.

                                 MR. RA:  BUT LARGELY MIRRORS IT WOULD YOU SAY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                         159



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  NOW, THERE'S A -- IT SAYS THAT THE USER

                    NEEDS TO BE NOTIFIED AT THE BEGINNING OF AND EVERY THREE HOURS THAT THE

                    AI IS NOT HUMAN EITHER VERBALLY OR IN WRITING.

                                 SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE AI COMPANY CAN MEET THE

                    REQUIREMENT BY JUST DOING IT VERBALLY OR -- OR ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO DO

                    BOTH?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE

                    EXPLICIT IN MAKING SURE THAT THE PERSON THAT'S ON THE OTHER END KNOWS

                    THAT THEY'RE NOT SPEAKING WITH A REAL INDIVIDUAL.  THAT THEY'RE SPEAKING

                    WITH A COMPUTER-GENERATED ENTITY.

                                 MR. RA:  BUT IF IT -- SO SUPPOSE A USER - AND I'LL BE

                    HONEST, I'M NOT FULLY UNDERSTANDING - BUT AS THIS BILL CAME UP I ASKED

                    PEOPLE ABOUT THESE TYPE OF AI COMPANIONS, FRIENDS, WHATEVER WE WANT

                    TO CALL THEM.  IF IT'S VERBAL AND SOMEBODY SAY IS USING, YOU KNOW, THEIR

                    PHONE AND DOING SOME TYPE OF TEXT CONVERSATION OR SOMETHING AND THEY

                    DON'T HAVE SOUND ON.  THEY COULD -- THEY COULD MISS IT WOULD BE MY

                    CONCERN.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'LL BE ONE OR THE OTHER.  THEY HAVE

                    TO HAVE SOME -- SOME WAY TO NOTIFY THE INDIVIDUAL ON THE OTHER END --

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- THAT WOULD BE OUR COMPUTER-

                    GENERATED ENTITIES.

                                 MR. RA:  AND IS THERE ANY REQUIREMENT THAT THE USER

                    ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THEY'VE SEEN THE NOTIFICATION?  HOW'S THE AI

                    COMPANION SYSTEM KNOW THAT THE USER HAS -- HAS SEEN THE NOTIFICATION?

                                         160



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT THAT THE AI

                    ENTITY GETS A NOTIFICATION THAT THE OTHER -- THE USER AT THE OTHER END IS

                    ACKNOWLEDGING THE FACT THAT THEY ARE SPEAKING WITH A COMPUTER-

                    GENERATED ENTITY.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND -- AND I GUESS THE LAST PIECE -

                    AND THIS IS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE SOMETHING FOR THESE COMPANIES TO

                    FIGURE OUT, BUT DO WE KNOW HOW THE AI COMPANION OPERATOR IS ABLE --

                    IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO DETECT SUICIDAL IDEATIONS OR EXPRESSIONS OF

                    SELF-HARM BY A -- BY A USER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE BILL IS NOT SPECIFIC TO THAT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  MOVE TO A -- I'M GOING TO MOVE TO A

                    COUPLE OF DIFFERENT AREAS.  THE FIRST COUPLE IN THE TRANSPORTATION REALM.

                                 SO THE BUDGET EXTENDS THE DMV PRE-LICENSING COURSE.

                    DO YOU KNOW WHY MOTORISTS UNDER THE AGE OF 21 ARE PROHIBITED FROM

                    TAKING THE COURSE ONLINE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T KNOW.  MAYBE THEY ARE

                    UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT PEOPLE AREN'T REALLY LOOKING AT THE SCREEN OR

                    DON'T HAVE THE CAPABILITY OF GENERATING INFORMATION AS TO THE ACTIVITY OR

                    THE PERSON AT THE OTHER END.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND A COUPLE OTHER VEHICLE-RELATED

                    PROVISIONS.

                                 THERE'S A PROVISION HERE THAT IDENTIFIES AN ABANDONED

                    VEHICLE AS ANY VEHICLE WITH NO NUMBER PLATES OR WITH THE WHOLESALE

                    VALUE -- WITH THE WHOLESALE VALUE OF 2,250 OR LESS, AND LOCAL AUTHORITIES

                    WILL NOT BE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A VEHICLE TITLE FOR THESE ABANDONED

                                         161



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    VEHICLES.

                                 DO WE KNOW HOW REDEFINING THESE ABANDONED

                    VEHICLES WILL BE IMPACTING OUR -- OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IF A VEHICLE IS LEFT ON THE SIDE OF THE

                    ROAD AND ILLEGALLY PARKED PAST A PRESCRIBED NUMBER OF HOURS, THE

                    DEPARTMENT OF SANITATION WILL HAVE THE AUTHORITY AFTER DETERMINING

                    WHAT THE -- THE RESALE VALUE OF -- THE WHOLESALE VALUE OF THIS CAR.

                    USUALLY THEY'RE IN PRETTY BAD SHAPE SO THEY CAN TAKE THEM OFF THE STREET

                    WITHIN A DAY.

                                 MR. RA:  AND THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CAN THEN SELL OR

                    JUNK --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, MOST OF THEM JUNK THEM,

                    WHATEVER THEY CAN DO BUT THEY WANT TO GET THEM OFF OF THE STREETS.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND DO YOU KNOW, IS THIS MAINLY,

                    YOU KNOW, PUBLIC SAFETY, QUALITY OF LIFE CONCERN OR IS IT ALSO -- OR IS THE

                    IMPETUS TO THIS ENVIRONMENTAL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I THINK IT'S BOTH.  MORE -- MORE SO

                    ENVIRONMENTAL THAN PUBLIC SAFETY BUT PUBLIC SAFETY DOES PLAY INTO THIS.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  ONE OF THE I WOULD SAY OFTEN TALKED

                    ABOUT PROVISIONS WITHIN -- THAT WAS WITHIN THIS BILL BUT -- BUT IS

                    OMITTED, IS THE DRUG DRIVING CHANGES.  I NOTICED THEY'RE NOT IN THIS BILL.

                    DO WE EXPECT THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE THAT SOMEWHERE ELSE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M PRETTY SURE THAT WE WILL, BUT AT

                    A LATER DATE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY, GREAT.

                                         162



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BUT MAYBE NOT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  STAY TUNED.

                                 THE ULTRA HEAVY CLASS THREE E-BIKES.  THE GOVERNOR'S

                    PROPOSAL TO RECLASSIFY THESE E-BIKES WEIGHING OVER 100 POUNDS IS

                    LIMITED USE.  MOTORCYCLES WAS OMITTED FROM THIS BUDGET BILL; IS THAT

                    CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OH, THAT'S NOT COMING BACK.

                                 MR. RA:  THAT ONE IS OUT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, THAT'S OUT.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND THEN THE PROVISIONS WITH REGARD

                    TO OVERWEIGHT VEHICLE ENFORCEMENT.  PART N OF THIS BUDGET AUTHORIZES

                    TRANSPORTATION AGENCIES AND AUTHORITIES TO IMPLEMENT DEMONSTRATION

                    PROGRAMS USING WEIGH-IN MOTION TECHNOLOCY [SIC] AND VERY -- IN VERY

                    SPECIFIC LOCATIONS.

                                 DO WE THINK THIS IS GOING TO, OR HOW -- HOW IS THIS

                    GOING TO IMPACT OUR EV MANDATE?  WE'RE -- WE'RE MANDATING

                    ELECTRONIC VEHICLES, IN PARTICULAR TRUCKS, SCHOOL BUSES THAT ARE VERY

                    HEAVY BECAUSE OF THE SIZE OF THE BATTERY.  AND SO WE'RE -- - WE'RE

                    WONDERING, IS THIS GOING TO ULTIMATELY IDENTIFY THE WEAR AND TEAR THAT

                    THOSE VEHICLES MAY HAVE ON OUR ROADS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, MR. RA, I KNOW YOU'RE FULLY

                    AWARE THAT THE WEIGHT OF A VEHICLE DIRECTLY AFFECTS THE CONDITION OF THE

                    ROADS -- HOW THE ROADS ARE LEFT, AND THERE ARE SEVERAL VEHICLES NOW THAT

                    ARE OVERWEIGHT THAT ARE USING OUR ROADS.  THIS TECHNOLOGY THAT'S GOING

                    TO BE USED I THINK MAKES MOSTLY ALL IN NEW YORK CITY WILL BE

                                         163



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IN-GROUND, AND AS TRUCKS ROLL OVER IT THEY WILL DETERMINE THE WEIGHT OF

                    THE TRUCK AND IF THE TRUCK IS OVERWEIGHT THEY'LL BE ISSUED A SUMMONS.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO REALLY AS WE'RE, I GUESS, GENERALLY

                    FAMILIAR WITH, RIGHT, WE'VE SEEN IN THE TRADITIONAL WAY THAT THERE'S, YOU

                    KNOW, A WEIGH STATION THAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO STOP AT AND THIS IS TO

                    MAYBE MODERNIZE A --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I -- I -- I DON'T KNOW IF THESE

                    STATIONS ARE REALLY UTILIZED.  I MEAN I -- I DRIVE ON 87 AT LEAST TWICE A

                    WEEK AND GO PASS A WEIGH STATION AT THE WOODBURY EXIT, I'M PRETTY SURE

                    YOU PASS IT, ALSO.

                                 MR. RA:  I DO.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AND I'VE NEVER SEEN EVER A TRUCK IN

                    THAT WEIGH STATION.  THAT IS A NICE FANCY --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. RA:  I'M NOT SURE I HAVE EITHER.  I -- I -- I DO

                    KNOW THAT I'M SURE MANY OF US CAN RECALL THIS BEFORE WE HAD WAZE AND

                    ALL THOSE TYPE OF THINGS THAT WOULD -- WOULD TELL YOU WHETHER IT WAS

                    POLICE OFFICERS.  WE OFTEN KNEW THAT THERE MIGHT BE ONE AROUND THE

                    WEIGH STATIONS TO CATCH ANY TRUCKS THAT DIDN'T STOP.

                                 MTA.  THERE ARE $6 BILLION COMMITTED TO THE MTA

                    2025-'29 CAPITAL PLAN.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  THREE BILLION IS SUPPOSED TO BE COMING

                    FROM THE STATE.  THE OTHER 3 BILLION FROM -- FROM NEW YORK CITY.  DO

                                         164



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WE KNOW HOW THE REMAINING GAPS IN THE CAPITAL PLAN ARE GOING TO BE

                    FILLED?  YOU KNOW, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A LOT MORE MONEY THAT'S GOING TO

                    BE REQUIRED ABOVE THIS $6 BILLION.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'LL BE DELINEATED IN ANOTHER

                    BILL.  YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE MONEY FROM THE CITY AND THE STATE --

                                 MR. RA:  YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- THAT GOES TO THE MTA, YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO WE WILL BE LIKELY DEALING WITH

                    SOME MTA FUNDING PROPOSALS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, ABSOLUTELY.

                                 MR. RA:  FAIR TO SAY PROBABLY IN THE REVENUE BILL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.  WITH REGARD TO -- TO TAXES.

                    THERE IS A PROVISION THAT ALLOWS TAX AND FINANCE TO SHARE DATA FROM

                    THE TAX RETURNS OF FOSSIL FUEL AND PETROLEUM BUSINESSES WITH DEC AND

                    NYSERDA TO ASSIST WITH THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CLCPA.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  WHAT SPECIFICALLY TYPES OF DATA ARE GOING TO

                    BE SHARED WITH DEC AND NYSERDA?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE GOING -- THEY'RE GOING TO

                    USE IT TO (INDISCERNIBLE) COORDINATE THE FINANCIAL DATA BETWEEN THE

                    DIFFERENT ENTITIES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND WHAT SAFEGUARDS ARE INCLUDED

                    TO ENSURE THAT THIS TAX RETURN DATA IS USED APPROPRIATELY BY THESE

                                         165



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ENTITIES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'D IMAGINE THE ORDINARY AUDIT

                    PROCEDURES THAT ARE CURRENTLY BEING USED.

                                 MR. RA:  WILL THOSE ENTITIES BE GIVEN NOTICE THAT TAX

                    AND FINANCE ARE SHARING THEIR DATA WITH DEC AND NYSERDA?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DO NOT BELIEVE SO, NO.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND IF IDENTIFYING INFORMATION FOR

                    THE BUSINESSES IS WITHHELD FROM DEC AND NYSERDA, HOW EXACTLY IS

                    THIS DATA GOING TO HELP IMPLEMENT THE CLCPA STANDARDS?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS -- THIS IS GOING TO ALLOW THEM

                    TO COMPARE REPORTING STANDARDS AND MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT

                    THEY DETERMINE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND IS THIS JUST GENERAL COMPLIANCE

                    WITH REGARD TO THE CLCPA OR DOES IT -- DOES IT RELATE TO THE CLIMATE

                    SUPERFUND BILL AND --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT DOES NOT RELATE TO THE SUPERFUND.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  THE

                    BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER PROPOSAL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU MEAN PAY GO (PHONETIC)?

                                 MR. RA:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  PAY GO?  PAY NOW...

                                 MR. RA:  YES.  BUY NOW AND PAY -- PAY LATER ACT.

                                 SO I THINK WE'VE SEEN A NUMBER OF PROPOSALS BOTH IN

                    THE BUDGET AND STANDALONE BILLS OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS THAT

                                         166



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WOULD REGULATE THESE TYPE OF LOANS.  CAN YOU JUST GIVE SOME DETAILS AS

                    TO WHAT THE FINAL VERSION OF THIS BILL INCLUDES TO THESE TYPES OF LENDERS?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  IT ALLOWS DFS TO OVERSEE

                    AND REGULATE THE BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER ENTITIES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  IF A ENTITY SAY HAD DIFFERENT TYPES OF

                    CATEGORIES OF LOANS, THIS TALKS ABOUT DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF

                    BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER LOANS.  WOULD A COMPANY HAVE TO OBTAIN A SEPARATE

                    LICENSE FOR EACH CATEGORY OR IS THERE JUST ONE LICENSE THAT WOULD COVER

                    ALL OF IT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S JUST ONE LICENSE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND DO WE HAVE ANY SENSE OF HOW

                    MANY OF THESE TYPES OF LENDERS ARE CURRENTLY OPERATING IN NEW YORK?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DO NOT ACCESS TO THAT NUMBER.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND DO WE KNOW HOW LONG DFS HAS

                    OR WILL HAVE TO REVIEW AND APPROVE OR DENY AN APPLICATION TO OPERATE

                    ONE OF THESE SERVICES IN NEW YORK?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE'S NO TIME LIMIT.

                                 MR. RA:  THERE'S NO TIME LIMIT, OKAY.

                                 AND IF SOMEBODY IS -- AN ENTITY IS ALREADY PROVIDING

                    THESE TYPES OF SERVICES IN NEW YORK STATE, ONCE THIS IS EFFECTIVE, WILL

                    THEY HAVE TO SUSPEND OPERATIONS UNTIL THEY'RE ABLE TO GET A LOAN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  THANK YOU.  OKAY.

                                 SO, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS OR -- OR I WOULD SAY CONCERNS

                                         167



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THAT HAS BEEN EXPRESSED IS THAT WE'VE HAD ESTABLISHED FEDERAL AND STATE

                    LEGAL PRECEDENT AROUND INTERSTATE BANKING.  AND BY INCLUDING AN

                    (INDISCERNIBLE) FOR OUT-OF-STATE STATE-CHARTERED BANKS FROM OUR LAWS, IS

                    THERE A CONCERN THAT THERE MIGHT BE RETALIATORY RESPONSES FROM OTHER

                    STATES AND THAT THAT COULD THREATEN THE COMPETITIVENESS OF OUR CHARTERED

                    BANKS IN NEW YORK?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT WON'T.

                                 MR. RA:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE DON'T BELIEVE IT WILL, NO.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU.  OKAY.  THAT'S ALL I HAVE ON

                    THAT.

                                 ONE -- ONE OTHER ISSUE I WANT TO GET INTO IN ANOTHER

                    TOTALLY SEPARATE AREA OF ENERGY.  SO NYSERDA'S ANNUAL FINANCE

                    AUTHORIZATION IS INCLUDED IN THIS BILL, BUT AM I CORRECT, IT DOES NOT

                    INCLUDE AUTHORIZATION FOR THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSED $7 MILLION

                    ASSESSMENT INCREASE WHICH WOULD HAVE HELP PAID FOR THE COST

                    ASSOCIATED WITH NYSERDA'S NUCLEAR POWER DEVELOPMENT PLAN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT DOES NOT INCLUDE IT, NO.

                                 MR. RA:  DOES THIS BUDGET IN ANY WAY SUPPORT

                    NYSERDA'S -- NYSERDA'S PLAN TO SUPPORT CONSTELLATION ENERGY'S

                    NEW EFFORT TO INSTALL A SMALL MODULAR REACTOR AT ONE OF ITS SITES IN

                    OSWEGO?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. RA:  AND AM I CORRECT THIS BILL INCLUDES AN

                    EXTENSION ON REBATE PROGRAMS FOR MUNICIPALITIES WHO ARE WISHING TO

                                         168



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PURCHASE ELECTRONIC [SIC] VEHICLES AND INFRASTRUCTURE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, IT DOES.

                                 MR. RA:  ARE THERE ANY REQUIREMENTS WITH THIS REBATE

                    PROGRAM REGARDING FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEMS OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE

                    REGARDING EV INFRASTRUCTURE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  I THINK THAT IS GOING TO BE IT ON THIS

                    PARTICULAR BILL.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU TO CHAIR PRETLOW.  THERE WAS A

                    LOT OF DIFFERENT AREAS WITHIN -- WITHIN THIS BILL, SO I APPRECIATE YOU AND

                    YOUR STAFF SHUFFLING AROUND TO TRY TO GET THROUGH A NUMBER OF THEM.

                                 I -- ONE -- ONE -- ONE ISSUE I JUST REALLY WANT TO

                    MENTION WITH REGARD TO THIS.  I HOPE WHEN WE SEE THOSE PROVISIONS

                    REGARDING DRUG DRIVING THAT THEY REFLECT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE PROPOSAL

                    AND THEY'RE NOT WATERED DOWN, BECAUSE WE -- WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN

                    THIS -- IN THIS STATE AND THESE PROVISIONS, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN

                    EXPRESSIONS OF -- OF CONCERN ON HOW THEY WOULD BE UTILIZED, BUT THE

                    BOTTOM LINE IS WE HAVE HAD SOME HORRIFIC TRAGEDIES HAPPEN IN THE STATE

                    AND PROSECUTORS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SAY SPECIFICALLY WHAT SUBSTANCE WAS

                    BEING USED ARE UNABLE TO PROSECUTE THEM.  YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD VERY

                    STRONG SUPPORT FROM OUR -- OUR DAS DOWN ON LONG ISLAND FOR THIS ISSUE

                    FOR YEARS.  AND I -- I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THAT PROVISION IN A FUTURE

                    BILL AND GETTING THAT DONE BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS

                                         169



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    GOING TO MAKE THE ROADS OF NEW YORK STATE SAFER.

                                 YOU KNOW, WITH REGARD TO THE MTA, AS WE'VE CALLED

                    FOR ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE, WE ALL UNDERSTAND HOW VITAL THE MTA IS,

                    HOW VITAL MTA CAPITAL IS, BUT -- AND -- AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS WHEN

                    WE GET TO IT, MY CONSTITUENTS CONSTANTLY READ ABOUT SCANDALS, WASTE,

                    THINGS OF THAT NATURE WITHIN THE MTA.  AND THE LAST THING THEY WANT TO

                    SEE IS ANOTHER TAX COMING ON TOP OF THEM TO -- TO FUND THE MTA.

                                 SO I LOOK FORWARD TO FURTHER DISCUSSIONS REGARDING

                    THAT ISSUE WHEN WE -- WHEN WE SEE THOSE PROVISIONS IN A FUTURE BILL.

                    AS I SAID ON THE LAST BILL, WE'RE MOVING FORWARD.  THIS IS THE SECOND

                    BILL.  WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE READY TO GO AND HOPEFULLY THE REST WILL

                    FOLLOW, AND WE CAN FINALLY AFTER WELL OVER A MONTH PUT THIS BUDGET TO

                    BED.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    WOULD THE CHAIR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  A COUPLE MAKES IT TWO, CORRECT?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  MAYBE, MAYBE A COUPLE MORE,

                    TOO.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  A FEW COUPLES?

                                         170



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  A FEW COUPLES, YEAH.  WE'RE,

                    WE'RE HAVING FUN.

                                 SO I JUST HAVE -- I ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE THAT MANY FOR

                    YOU.  SO I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ON PART RR, THE SUPERFUND

                    AMENDMENTS UNDER THE ENVIRONMENTAL SECTION HERE.  SO IN PART RR IT

                    AMENDS THE SUPERFUND WHILE HERE TO PRIORITIZE (INDISCERNIBLE)

                    PROGRAMS AT SITES PLACED IN DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES.

                                 FIRST, I WANTED TO GET YOUR DEFINITION, WHAT CONSTITUTES

                    A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY IS --

                    THERE'S A DEFINITION IN CURRENT LAW.  I CAN'T TELL YOU OFF THE TOP OF MY

                    HEAD WHAT IT IS, BUT THERE IS A DEFINITION OF A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY

                    IN CURRENT LAW.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  AND WHAT -- WHAT EXACTLY

                    WOULD IT MEAN TO PRIORITIZE THOSE REMEDIAL SITES?  IS THAT IN TERMS OF

                    TIMING, IN TERMS OF FUNDING?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OH, SORRY.  SAY THAT AGAIN.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  SURE.  SO WHAT EXACTLY DOES IT

                    MEAN TO PRIORITIZE THESE REMEDIAL SITES?  IS THAT PRIORITIZED IN TERMS OF

                    FUNDING, IN TERMS OF TIME FRAME TO START --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S A COMBINATION OF A FEW THINGS.

                    A COMBINATION OF NEED, EXPEDIENCY, THE COST, HOW HAZARDOUS IS THE

                    SITE, AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE USING FEDERAL MONEY FOR THIS SO THE

                    AVAILABILITY OF CASE THAT THE STATE HAS.  MANY -- MANY ITEMS.

                                         171



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  BECAUSE I'M LOOK -- THE LANGUAGE

                    ADDS, IT WILL PRIORITIZE REMEDIAL PROGRAMS AT SITES PLACED IN CLASS 1 OR 2

                    AS DESCRIBED IN THE SUBPARAGRAPH YEAR THAT ARE LOCATED IN

                    DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES.  SO I DID -- I DID A QUICK SEARCH AND ON

                    LONG ISLAND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CLASS 2, WHICH ARE PRETTY SERIOUS, AT

                    LEAST IN SUFFOLK COUNTY I WAS LOOKING, AND I KNOW THERE'S ONE IN MY

                    DIS -- THERE'S I THINK TWO IN MY DISTRICT, ONE JUST OUTSIDE MY DISTRICT

                    WHERE I GREW UP THAT ARE CLASS 2.  BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THOSE WOULD FALL

                    INTO THE DEFINITION OF A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY.  SO HOW WOULD THAT

                    WORK?  IF THERE'S A CLASS 1 REMEDIAL SITE IN A COMMUNITY THAT'S NOT

                    DISADVANTAGED, WOULD A CLASS 2 SITE IN A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY

                    TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T BELIEVE THERE ARE ANY CLASS

                    1 SITES.  AND A LOT OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE TERM THAT WAS BROUGHT TO

                    LIGHT MANY YEARS AGO "INSTITUTIONAL RACISM" WHERE HAZARDOUS SITES WERE

                    PUT IN COMMUNITIES THAT FALL UNDER THE DEFINITION OF HAZARDOUS.  AND

                    THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW IS TO EXPEDITE, TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY, THE

                    CLEANUP OF THOSE SITES.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  CAN ANY CURRENT SITE THAT'S

                    LETS SAY A CLASS 2, COULD ANY OF THOSE BE DEPRIORITIZED IF A NEW CLASS 2

                    REMEDIAL SITE POPS UP IN WHAT IS DESCRIBED AS A DISADVANTAGED

                    COMMUNITY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  WELL, I THINK I JUST

                    DESCRIBED IT.  THE CRITERIA THAT I JUST DESCRIBED; HOW IMPORTANT IT IS, THE

                    COST, WHERE IT IS AND WE CAN EX -- EXPEDITE.

                                         172



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  RIGHT, BUT BY DEFINITION A CLASS 2

                    SUPERFUND SITE IS IMPORTANT.  IT'S -- IT'S DESCRIBED AS PRESENTING A

                    SERIOUS DANGER TO THE ENVIRONMENT OR (INDISCERNIBLE), NOT AS SERIOUS AS

                    CLASS 1.  SO MY QUESTION IS KNOWING THAT WE HAVE SITES, LET'S SAY,

                    WHERE I GREW UP IN WEST ISLIP, THE DZUS FASTENER COMPANY IS A CLASS

                    2 SITE.  THERE ARE VERY HIGH RATES OF CANCER IN THAT COMMUNITY,

                    SPECIFICALLY AMONG WOMEN, THERE ARE HIGH RATES OF BREAST CANCER AND

                    BELIEVED TO BE CAUSED BY THAT SITE.  COULD THE REMEDIATION OF THAT SITE

                    BE DEPRIORITIZED BECAUSE IT'S NOT CONSIDERED TO BE IN A DISADVANTAGED

                    COMMUNITY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S ALL COMPARATIVE.  IT DEPENDS ON

                    THE COMMISSIONER AS TO WHICH SITE.  IF ONE SITE HAS ALREADY BEEN

                    STARTED, I DOUBT THEY'RE GOING TO STOP THAT SITE AND GO SOMEPLACE ELSE.

                    SO IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE CRITERIA THEY SET OUT EARLIER.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  I MEAN THE CRITERIA IS NOT

                    EXACTLY CLEAR, THOUGH.  IS IT UP TO THE DISCRETION OF THE COMMISSIONER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  DISADVANTAGE IS RELATIVE TO OTHER

                    SITES.  THE SORT OF DISADVANTAGED SITE WOULDN'T HAVE MORE OF A PRIORITY.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  OVER... JUST -- BECAUSE

                    ONE OF THOSE LET'S SAY ARE LIKE WEST --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THEY ALL HAVE TO BE CLEANED

                    UP.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S JUST THE ORDER TO PUT THEM IN.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  BUT MY QUESTION IS CAN ONE THAT

                                         173



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IS CURRENTLY UNDERWAY, LET'S SAY THERE'S AN ISSUE OF FUNDING --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO: -- COULD THAT BE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S NOT GOING TO BE -- IT'S CURRENTLY

                    --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK).

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  THEY'RE NOT GOING TO STOP.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  MID-REMEDIATION AND GO

                    SOMEPLACE ELSE BECAUSE THEY DISCOVERED A HAZARDOUS SITE, A SUPERFUND

                    SITE IN A COMMUNITY, IN A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY, THEY'RE NOT GOING

                    TO --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO OR

                    ARE THEY PREVENTED FROM?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE NOT GOING TO -- THEY'RE NOT

                    GOING TO STOP --

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- REMEDIATION OF A PLACE THAT THEY

                    -- THE AREA THAT YOU FIRST DESCRIBED.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  ARE THEY PROHIBITED FROM

                    STOPPING IT OR --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE NOT PROHIBITED FROM DOING

                    ANYTHING IF THEY WANT TO --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK).

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  I GUESS WE'RE PUTTING

                                         174



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SOME TRUST IN THE COMMISSIONER THEN.  THAT'S GREAT.

                                 NOW, DOES -- IN TERMS OF THE DISADVANTAGED

                    COMMUNITY, DOES THAT GO BY ZIP CODE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I THINK IT'S MORE CENSUS TRACK THAN

                    ZIP CODE.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  MORE CENSUS, OKAY.  OKAY,

                    GREAT.  I APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS.

                                 JUST ONE MORE QUESTION.  SOMETHING THAT WAS

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED HERE WAS DISTINCTIVE LICENSE PLATES FOR GOLD STAR

                    FAMILIES.  IS THERE ANY REASON WHY THAT DIDN'T MAKE THIS BUDGET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT WAS

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED, BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE DONE OR WILL BE

                    DONE IN A SEPARATE PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AND NOT -- AND NOT AS A BUDGET BILL.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  IS THERE A -- A REASON FOR -- THAT

                    SEEMS LIKE IT MIGHT HAVE A FISCAL IMPACT AND THE GOVERNOR ALWAYS TELLS

                    US WE SHOULDN'T DO THINGS --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S REALLY NOT A --

                    (INDISCERNIBLE).  IF IT IS IT'S DE MINIMUS.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY, DE MINIMUS.  ALL RIGHT.

                    APPRECIATE IT.  THANK YOU, CHAIR.  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                         175



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. MORINELLO.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I JUST HAVE A QUESTION ON ONE

                    SECTION.  ON PART DDD --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR....

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  OH, I'M SORRY, THANK YOU.  MY

                    APOLOGIES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THAT'S OKAY.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  IT COMES OFF MY TIME?  I ONLY

                    HAVE ONE QUESTION.  PART DDD -- OH, I'M SORRY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  SPONSOR, WILL YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  WILL HE YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. PRETLOW, WILL

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  WILL YOU YIELD?  I'M SORRY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  FOR THE JUDGE, ABSOLUTELY.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I APPRECIATE IT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE PART DDD DEALING WITH THE

                    AGREEMENT AUTHORIZED SUCH INDIAN NATIONS OR TRIBES TO ACQUIRE, POSSESS,

                    MANUFACTURE, SELL, DELIVER, TRANSPORT, DISTRIBUTE OR DISPENSE ADULT-USE

                    CANNABIS AND MEDICAL CANNABIS.

                                 WHAT IS THE INTENTION OF THAT PARAGRAPH OR THAT

                    INCLUSION IN THE BILL?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                         176



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S TO GIVE THE STATE MORE ABILITY TO

                    DO TESTING ON THE NATIVE AMERICAN FACILITIES.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  ALL RIGHT.  SO THEY WILL BE ABLE

                    TO PURCHASE PRODUCTS PRODUCED IN NEW YORK STATE OR GROWN BY NEW

                    YORK STATE GROWERS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  OKAY.  NOW, THE NATION BEING

                    TAX FREE, WILL THEY BE TAXED ON THESE PURCHASES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SO. NO.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  NO. SO IT WILL LEGALIZE THEIR

                    ABILITY FOR THEIR DISPENSARIES --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. MORINELLO: -- TO COME OFF THE REZ AND MAKE

                    PURCHASES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY COULD PROBABLY DO IT AS -- AS

                    A MATTER OF RIGHT NOW, BUT -- BUT YES.

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  I'M SORRY.  I DIDN'T HEAR YOU, MR.

                    PRETLOW.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I SAID THEY CAN PROBABLY DO IT AS OF

                    RIGHT NOW, BUT (INDISCERNIBLE) --

                                 MR. MORINELLO:  THANK YOU FOR BEING SO CANDID.

                    THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL

                                         177



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CHAIR PRETLOW PLEASE YIELD FOR QUESTIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  MY QUESTIONS

                    HAVE TO DO WITH PART KK, THE PART ABOUT THE MWBE PROGRAM.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  KKK?

                                 MS. WALSH:  JUST TWO K'S.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OH, TWO K'S.

                                 MS. WALSH:  DON'T GET ME INTO TROUBLE, MR.

                    PRETLOW.  JUST TWO.

                                 SO IT LOOKS AS THOUGH IN THIS SECTION, IT EXTENDS THE

                    MINORITY OF WOMEN-OWNED BUSINESS ENTERPRISE PROGRAM FOR THREE

                    YEARS UNTIL DECEMBER 31ST, 2028.  JUST POINT OF -- JUST CURIOSITY, AND I

                    DON'T KNOW.  IS IT ALWAYS DONE IN THREE YEAR INCREMENTS, OR IS THIS

                    SHORTER THAN USUAL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS WAS NEGOTIATED, I BELIEVE IT

                    WAS DONE AROUND THREE YEAR PERIODS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  I DON'T KNOW WHY I THOUGHT

                    FIVE BUT THAT'S -- THAT'S FINE, THREE YEARS.  SO -- AND THIS PART ALSO DIRECTS

                    THE DIVISION OF MWBE, THE COMMISSION OF POLICY STUDY ANALYZING

                    POTENTIAL WAYS TO IMPROVE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE STATE MWBE

                    PROGRAM.  SO, MY QUESTION IS WHAT SPECIFICALLY IS THE STUDY GOING TO

                    EXAMINE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M REALLY NOT SURE WHAT THE STUDY

                    IS GOING TO -- TO BRING ABOUT.  THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS REQUESTED

                                         178



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OF THE EXECUTIVE, OR THE EXECUTIVE WANTED IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET AND

                    THAT'S HOW IT'S THERE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  BECAUSE IT ALL IT SAYS IN THE BILL

                    LANGUAGE ITSELF IS JUST POTENTIAL WAYS TO IMPROVE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF

                    THE PROGRAM.  I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS ANY FURTHER GUIDANCE ABOUT...

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEAH, YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY

                    REALLY JUST WANT TO FIGURE OUT IF THERE'S A WAY TO IMPROVE THE PROGRAM.

                    THERE HAVE BEEN SOME -- SOME ISSUES WITHIN THE MWBE PROGRAM OVER

                    TIME AND WHAT THIS WOULD DO IS TRY TO LOOK INTO WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE

                    AND SEE IF THERE'S AREAS WHERE IMPROVEMENT CAN BE DONE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THAT'S GREAT.  AND -- AND I WOULD

                    AGREE THAT THERE DEFINITELY ARE SOME ISSUES WITH THE PROGRAM AND THERE

                    ARE SEVERAL BILLS THAT I'LL DISCUSS LATER TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE

                    PROBLEMS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  BUT THE REPORT ITSELF WON'T BE DUE UNTIL

                    MAY 1ST, 2027 IT LOOKS LIKE ACCORDING TO THE BILL TEXT.  AND IT'S GOING TO

                    BE HANDLED BY AN OUTSIDE -- AN OUTSIDE ENTITY IS GOING TO DO THE STUDY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, BASED ON THOSE DATES IT LOOKS

                    LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE A REALLY DELIBERATIVE COMMITTEE, BUT YES.  IT'S GOING

                    TO BE AN OUTSIDE ENTITY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEAH, CAUSE IT -- IT JUST SEEMS TO ME

                    THAT -- WELL, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, THE DISPARITY STUDY, WE JUST GOT THAT

                    KIND OF TOWARDS THE END OF LAST YEAR.  WE WERE WAITING FOR QUITE A

                    WHILE FOR THAT, BUT THIS IS CLEARLY A DIFFERENT KIND OF STUDY THAN THE

                                         179



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    DISPARITY STUDY; IS THAT -- IS THAT CORRECT?  IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LOOKING --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LOOKING AGAIN AT

                    ANY STATISTICS OR DATA OR CONCLUSIONS RAISED BY THE DISPARITY STUDY, THE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SO. THIS IS JUST

                    TO LOOK AT WHAT DATA WE DO HAVE NOW AND SEE IF THE PROGRAM CAN BE

                    IMPROVED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  VERY GOOD.  WILL THE MINORITY

                    LEADER OF THE ASSEMBLY GET A COPY OF THAT REPORT WHEN IT'S -- WHEN IT'S

                    COMPLETED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M PRETTY SURE IT WILL BE ON THE --

                    ON THE WEBSITE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  EVERYBODY WILL GET IT, INCLUDING

                    YOU AND I.

                                 MS. WALSH:  WELL, THAT'S GREAT.  SO IT -- IT DID SAY AT

                    LINE 30 THAT IT WOULD BE -- IT WOULD GO TO THE GOVERNOR AND THE

                    LEGISLATURE.  I JUST -- WHEN IT JUST SAYS "LEGISLATURE" I NEVER KNOW

                    WHETHER IT MEANS JUST THE MAJORITY OR IF IT'S ALL OF US, SO I'M HAPPY TO

                    HEAR WE'LL HAVE SOME LIGHT READING TO DO IN 2027.  THAT'S GREAT,

                    WONDERFUL.

                                 ALL RIGHT.  WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIR.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO I -- I GENERALLY DON'T HAVE A BIG

                                         180



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PROBLEM WITH CONDUCTING STUDIES.  I MEAN WE -- WE AUTHORIZE THEM ALL

                    THE TIME HERE IN THE ASSEMBLY.  UNFORTUNATELY THE GOVERNOR HAS A

                    PRETTY STRONG HISTORY OF VETOING AN AWFUL LOT OF THE STUDIES THAT -- THAT

                    WE PASSED MANY TIMES UNANIMOUSLY IN OUR BODY, SO I FIND IT

                    INTERESTING THAT THIS STUDY IS REALLY BEING CONDUCTED AT HER REQUEST,

                    ACCORDING TO THE -- THE ANSWERS GIVEN BY THE CHAIR, WHICH I APPRECIATE.

                                 I THINK WE -- I DEFINITELY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE SOME

                    REAL PROBLEMS WITH THE MWBE PROGRAM.  OUR LOCAL PAPER, THE TIMES

                    UNION DID A SERIES OF ARTICLES.  AND THEN A COLLEAGUE OF MINE AND I

                    DEFINITELY PICKED UP THE ISSUE WHEN WE WENT THROUGH ALL THE BUDGET

                    HEARINGS EARLIER THIS YEAR TALKING ABOUT A NUMBER OF ISSUES, AND A REAL

                    BACKLOG OF CASES AND POSSIBLY A -- A BIAS, REALLY, ESPECIALLY TOWARDS

                    CERTAIN WOMEN WHO ARE WHITE, WHO ARE IN TRADITIONALLY MAYBE WOULD

                    BE CONSIDERED TO BE MALE INDUSTRIES, LIKE CONSTRUCTION AND WHO ARE --

                    WERE BEING AND ARE BEING PUT THROUGH A LOT OF ADDITIONAL HOOPS AND ARE

                    BEING TURNED DOWN, SO THAT REMAINS A REAL CONCERN OF MINE.  I WOULD

                    LIKE TO JUST STATE FOR THE RECORD THAT I -- I -- ALTHOUGH IT'S A LITTLE BIT

                    VAGUE IN THE -- IN THE BUDGET LANGUAGE ABOUT IMPROVING THE

                    EFFECTIVENESS OF THE -- OF THE MWBE PROGRAM IS WHAT IT SAYS, BUT

                    IMPROVING THE EFFECTIVENESS I HOPE ALSO LOOKS AT TAKING A LOOK AT SOME

                    OF THE INEQUITIES THAT ARE IN A SYSTEM THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ADDRESSING

                    INEQUITY, IRONICALLY.  SO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO MENTION THAT THERE ARE A

                    NUMBER OF REALLY GOOD BILLS THAT ARE ALREADY -- THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN

                    INTRODUCED THAT OUR ASSEMBLY COULD TAKE -- COULD TAKE UP AT ANY TIME,

                    WHICH I THINK WOULD DO A LOT TOWARDS IMPROVING THE EFFECTIVENESS OF

                                         181



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MWBE.

                                 ONE WOULD PROVIDE A REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION RELATING

                    TO RECERTIFICATION AS AN MWBE IF THERE'D BEEN NO CHANGE IN OWNERSHIP

                    OF THE ENTERPRISE AND NO MATERIAL CHANGE IN THE NATURE OR MANAGEMENT

                    OF THE ENTERPRISE FOR THE TIME THAT THE APPROVAL OF THE PREVIOUS MWBE

                    WAS GIVEN AND WAS CERTIFIED.

                                 SO, IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN CERTIFIED AS

                    AN MWBE AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED, WHY SHOULD YOU HAVE TO BASICALLY

                    REINVENT THE WHEEL FOR MWBE?  WHY SHOULDN'T THERE BE A REBUTTABLE

                    PRESUMPTION THAT YOU GET APPROVED AGAIN?  I MEAN THAT JUST MAKES

                    SENSE, AND THAT WOULD MOVE THINGS ALONG FOR A LOT OF BUSINESSES WHO

                    HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY CERTIFIED AND THEN ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT THERE WAS

                    -- THAT THEIR RECERTIFICATION WAS BEING MIRED DOWN IN A LOT OF

                    BUREAUCRACY.  I THINK THAT THERE ARE OTHER BILLS THAT WE COULD DO RIGHT

                    NOW.  SO I HATE THE FACT THAT WE WERE WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING

                    FOR THIS DISPARITY STUDY TO BE CONCLUDED BEFORE WE COULD TAKE ANY

                    ACTION.  NOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FURTHER STUDY THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE

                    DUE UNTIL 2027 AND I WOULD HATE TO THINK THAT THAT MIGHT IN SOME WAYS

                    STYMIE OR CREATE A ROADBLOCK TO THIS BODY TAKING REALLY APPROPRIATE

                    ACTION, REALLY JUST COMMONSENSE ACTION.  SO I HOPE THAT -- YOU KNOW,

                    I'M ALL FOR IMPROVING EFFICIENCY.  I'M ALL FOR STUDYING THINGS AND

                    BRINGING IN SOMEBODY FROM THE OUTSIDE MAYBE WITH A FRESH PAIR OF EYES

                    WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA, BUT I THINK THAT IN THE MEANTIME WE'VE GOT SOME

                    THINGS THAT WE CAN DO RIGHT NOW THAT I THINK WILL DEFINITELY MOVE THINGS

                    AHEAD IN A POSITIVE DIRECTION FOR THIS PROGRAM.

                                         182



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 SO I WILL BE -- I WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS BILL OVERALL,

                    BUT I DID WANT TO SPEAK ON THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. JENSEN.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A HANDFUL OF QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT TRANSLATES TO FIVE, CORRECT?

                    YES, I WILL YIELD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIRMAN

                    PRETLOW.

                                 I WANT TO FOCUS ON PART Z OF THIS BILL, PREDOMINANTLY

                    THE PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGER REBATE TRANSPARENCY LANGUAGE, AND I'LL

                    GIVE TIME FOR YOUR DEDICATED STAFF TO MAKE THEIR WAY DOWN.

                                 I GUESS WHAT WAS THE GENESIS AND THE REASONING FOR

                    THIS BEING INCLUDED IN THE BUDGET LANGUAGE?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S AN ATTEMPT TO PROVIDE GREATER

                    TRANSPARENCY.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  SO UNDERSTANDING THAT FROM -- FROM

                    READING THE LANGUAGE, BUT HOW WOULD DISCLOSING THE DETAILS OF THE

                    TERMS OF THE CONTRACT BETWEEN THE PBMS AND MANUFACTURERS HAVE ANY

                                         183



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    BENEFIT TO NEW YORKERS, ESPECIALLY IF THIS DATA IS NOT GOING TO BE

                    AUTOMATICALLY PUBLISHED ON A DOH WEBSITE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT.  SO YOUR QUESTION IS WHY ARE

                    WE DOING THIS?

                                 MR. JENSEN:  YEAH.  HOW DOES THIS HAVE ANY -- YOU

                    KNOW, CERTAINLY YOU TALKED ABOUT WE HAVE TO INCREASE TRANSPARENCY --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. JENSEN: -- BUT HOW WOULD NEW YORKERS

                    KNOWING PROPRIETARY CONTRACT LANGUAGE BETWEEN PBMS AND

                    MANUFACTURERS MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE ON THE WAY NEW YORKERS LIVE THEIR

                    LIVES OR GO ABOUT THEIR DAY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THE THING IS THE MORE

                    OPPORTUNITIES TO MAKE AN INFORMED CHOICE AND TO SEE IF THE ENTITY THAT

                    THEY'RE DEALING WITH IS OVERCHARGING THEM.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  BUT HOW WOULD NEW YORKERS KNOW

                    JUST FROM LOOKING AT -- THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THIS DATA BECAUSE

                    DOESN'T THE LANGUAGE ALSO SAY THAT IT'S UP TO THE DISCRETION OF THE HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER WHETHER OR NOT TO PUBLISH THIS DATA?  SO IF IT'S NOT GOING

                    TO BE AUTOMATICALLY PUBLISHED, WHY ARE WE REQUIRING THE MANUFACTURERS

                    AND THE PBMS TO HAVE TO TURN OVER THIS DATA WHEN NEW YORKERS MAY

                    NOT EVEN KNOW THAT IT EXISTS OR OUT THERE, AND IF THEY DID, EVEN HOW TO

                    APPROPRIATELY READ IT TO UNDERSTAND THE NUANCE NEGOTIATIONS IN DRUG

                    PRICING?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I THINK THE EXECUTIVE FEELS

                    IT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE STATE THAT WE AT LEAST MAKE THE ATTEMPT TO

                                         184



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MAKE THIS INFORMATION AVAILABLE AND BEING MORE TRANSPARENT.  YOU

                    KNOW, WE MAKE A LOT OF THINGS AVAILABLE THAT THE CONSUMERS GENERALLY

                    DON'T AVAIL THEMSELVES TO OR DON'T KNOW EXIST.  ONE EXAMPLE THAT

                    COMES TO MY MIND IS WHEN WE HAVE RETAIL PRICES ON PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.

                    MOST PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE RETAIL PRICE OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

                    ARE IF THEY HAVE INSURANCE.  IF THEY DON'T HAVE INSURANCE THEY DON'T

                    KNOW IF THEY'RE BEING RIPPED OFF OR NOT BY THEIR -- BY THEIR PHARMACIST

                    OR THE DRUGGIST, BUT WE DO MAKE PROVISIONS THAT THAT BE MADE AVAILABLE

                    AND EVERY PHARMACY YOU GO INTO NOW THEY SAY IF YOU WANT THE RETAIL

                    PRICE IT'S AVAILABLE.  THEY DON'T (INDISCERNIBLE) BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY

                    DIFFERENT DRUGS, AND THERE'S GENERICS AND THEIR NAME BRAND AND, YOU

                    KNOW, THE WHOLE -- THE WHOLE WORKS --

                                 MR. JENSEN:  BUT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- BUT WE DO WANT TO MAKE AS MUCH

                    AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AS POSSIBLE.

                                 I THINK I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT IN SAYING THAT THEY

                    MAY NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT, AND THAT IS A POSSIBILITY, BUT

                    THERE USUALLY IS SOMEONE THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO

                    FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT, WHAT IT MEANS.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  AND I CAN UNDERSTAND ALL THAT AND I

                    CAN RESPECT THAT.  HOWEVER, IN OUR STATE 96 PERCENT OF ALL NEW YORKERS

                    HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.  AND FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE WHEN I GO TO MY

                    PRIMARY CARE PROVIDER OR A SPECIALIST AND I'M PRESCRIBED A MEDICATION,

                    I'M NOT WALKING INTO MY PHARMACIST AND SAYING, WELL, LET ME SEE, YOU

                    KNOW, THE (INDISCERNIBLE) -- LET ME SEE ALL THE PRICING INFORMATION.  NO.

                                         185



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    I'M GOING TO PICK UP THE PRESCRIPTION THAT MY PROVIDER HAS DEEMED IS

                    THE BEST TO TREAT WHATEVER AILMENT, ILLNESS WHAT MAY YOU, WHAT MAY

                    HAVE BROUGHT ME IN THERE.  SO MY CONCERN IS THAT WE'RE PUTTING AN ONUS

                    AND -- AND EXTRA REGULATORY BARRIERS BOTH ON THE PBMS AND ON

                    MANUFACTURERS, WHICH 60 PERCENT OF ALL BIOTECHNOLOGY INNOVATION IS

                    HAPPENING IN THE STATE PROVIDES, YOU KNOW, AN ONEROUS REGULATORY

                    REQUIREMENT WITHOUT ANY CLEAR PUBLIC BENEFIT, NO PUN INTENDED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, DFS IS ACTUALLY THE ENTITY

                    THAT DOES UNDERSTAND ALL OF THIS AND THEY'RE THE ONES THAT WILL BE THE

                    ULTIMATE RECIPIENT OF THE INFORMATION, AND THEY'LL MAKE DECISIONS BASED

                    ON WHAT THEIR FINDINGS ARE.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  WELL, AND I APPRECIATE YOU FOR

                    BRINGING UP DFS, BUT ALREADY DFS CAN REQUEST THE TERMS OF THE

                    CONTRACTS BETWEEN THE MANUFACTURERS AND THE PBMS. SO THERE ALREADY

                    IS A MECHANISM FOR THE STATE AGENCY THAT REGULATES THIS INDUSTRY TO GET

                    THIS INFORMATION IF THEY DO BELIEVE THERE IS FUNNY BUSINESS GOING ON.

                    SO, ONCE AGAIN, IT ONLY REENFORCES WHY I THINK THIS IS ONEROUS

                    REGULATION THAT IS NOT NEEDED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE INFORMATION IS NEEDED AND

                    YOU'RE RIGHT.  THEY COULD DO THAT NOW, BUT THIS ACTUALLY CODIFIES IT AND

                    MAKES IT MORE PERTINENT.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  SHIFTING GEARS ON PART II ON THE

                    DASNY PUBLIC EMPLOY -- OR PUBLIC LIBRARY'S AUTHORIZATION,

                    UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS PORTION WAS INTENTIONALLY OMITTED TO ALLOW

                    DASNY TO ASSIST PUBLIC LIBRARIES AND PROVIDING FINANCING CONSTRUCTION

                                         186



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ASSISTANCE FOR LIBRARIES THAT ARE CHARTED BY THE BOARD OF REGENTS.  WHY

                    WAS THIS INTENTIONALLY OMITTED, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'VE PASSED

                    LEGISLATION PREVIOUSLY IN THIS BODY - I MYSELF CARRIED TWO OF THEM LAST

                    YEAR - TO ALLOW FOR DASNY TO HELP WITH SOME OF THE FINANCING AND

                    INSTITUTIONAL GUIDANCE ON CONSTRUCTION AND RENOVATION PRODUCTS -- OR

                    PROJECTS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS IS USUALLY APPROVED ON A

                    CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.  WE GIVE DASNY THE PERMISSION TO NEGOTIATION

                    WITH THE LIBRARIES INDIVIDUALLY.  SO, JUST LIKE I SAID, IT'S DONE ON A

                    CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  SO WE'D RATHER CONTINUE TO SEE THE

                    MEMBERS BRING THEIR -- BRING THEIR ONE-OFF BILLS AND MOVE THROUGH THE

                    CHAMBER THROUGH THE HOME RULE PROCESS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    CHAIRMAN.  I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS.  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  MY

                                         187



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    QUESTIONS ARE GOING TO BE DIRECTED TOWARDS THE BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER, THE

                    PART Y. I'LL GIVE YOUR STAFF A COUPLE MINUTES TO GET OVER.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 SO IN THE BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER LENDING, I GUESS MY

                    QUESTION IS WHO'S -- WHAT GROUPS ARE ASKING FOR THIS?  WHO -- WHO IS

                    THIS INTENDED FOR, WHAT IS THE INTENT OF THIS LEGISLATION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THIS IS SOMETHING DONE IN THE

                    -- IN THE CONSUMER PROTECTION.  SOME PEOPLE FALL INTO TRAPS, AND WE FEEL

                    THAT THIS PROTECTS THEM.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT THERE --

                    WHO HAS BEEN VICTIMIZED BY BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER?  IS THERE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, MANY PEOPLE ARE AFFECTED.

                    YOU KNOW, YOU GO ON A -- AN AMAZON SITE AND YOU WANT TO PURCHASE A

                    PAIR OF SUNGLASSES AND THEY'RE -- AND THEY'RE $12 AND THEY GIVE YOU

                    MAKE THREE EQUAL PAYMENTS OR -- OR WHATEVER.  THAT'S BUYING NOW,

                    PAYING LATER.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  SO THEY'RE -- ACTUALLY I'M

                    GOING TO KIND OF SWITCH UP MY QUESTIONS A LITTLE BIT HERE BECAUSE YOU

                    ACTUALLY BRING UP A GOOD POINT WITH THE AMAZON.

                                 WOULD -- WOULD AMAZON BE THE ENTITY THAT IS GIVING

                    THE BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT SOMEONE FROM AMAZON

                    WOULD BE EXEMPT, BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ENTITY DOING THE FINANCING,

                    CORRECT?  CAUSE THE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE -- THERE ARE THIRD-PARTIES AND

                    SOMETIMES IT'S JEFF THEMSELVES.

                                         188



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF

                    EXEMPT ORGANIZATIONS IN THE LEGISLATION PRIMARILY FOREIGN NATIONAL,

                    FOREIGN OUTSIDE AS WELL, BUT LIKE FEDERALLY-CHARTERED ORGANIZATIONS.

                    THOSE ARE GENERALLY WHAT THE EXEMPTIONS ARE.  SO IT IS MY

                    UNDERSTANDING THAT THESE WERE -- THESE WERE REQUIREMENTS WOULD REALLY

                    ONLY APPLY TO NEW YORK STATE-CHARTERED INSTITUTIONS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  IS THERE ANY CONCERN THAT

                    PLACING ADDITIONAL BURDENS ON NEW YORK-CHARTERED INSTITUTIONS, YOU

                    KNOW, THEY'RE DWINDLING AS IS, THAT THIS IS ONLY GOING TO KIND OF

                    EXACERBATE THAT PROBLEM?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THEY'RE DWINDLING BECAUSE

                    WE HAVE STRONG CONSUMER PROTECTIONS AND WE DON'T ALLOW BANKS TO USE

                    USER'S INTEREST SO THEY GO OUT TO THE MIDWEST LIKE WYOMING AND

                    MINNESOTA WHERE THE LAWS ARE A LOT LAXER AND BANKING INSTITUTIONS AND

                    FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS HAVE MORE LEEWAY INTO... I USE THE TERM "HURTING"

                    BECAUSE IT'S HURTING CONSUMERS FOR SAKE OF PROFIT.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  I UNDERSTAND.  THANK YOU.  SO FOR

                    -- ALSO FOR CLARIFICATION, IT'S LOOKING LIKE THERE ARE SEVERAL CATEGORIES

                    HERE FOR THE BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER LOANS.  AM I CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT --

                    THAT A BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER CAN SERVICE MORE THAN ONE CATEGORY WITH ONLY

                    ONE APPLICATION?  OR ONE LICENSURE I GUESS IS WHAT I'M SAYING?  IN OTHER

                    WORDS, HERE THERE'S THREE CATEGORIES.  THERE IS BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER ZERO

                    INTEREST.  BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER INSTALLMENT, AND THEN ANY SUBSET OF

                    BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER.  SO IF SOMEONE APPLIES FOR A LICENSE OR -- LICENSE

                                         189



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    FOR ONE OF THOSE, DO THEY HAVE TO APPLY FOR ALL OF THEM OR IS THAT ONE

                    LICENSE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY USE ONE -- ONE LICENSE.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  ONE LICENSE?  OKAY.

                                 I DO WANT TO GO BACK TO THE DEFINITION OF THE QUOTE,

                    "BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER LOAN."  IN THE TEXT IT SAYS THAT IT MEANS A

                    CLOSED-ENDED CREDIT PROVIDED TO A CONSUMER IN CONNECTION WITH SUCH

                    CONSUMER'S PARTICULAR PURCHASE OF GOODS OTHER THAN A MOTOR VEHICLE.

                    WHY JUST MOTOR VEHICLES?  WHY IS -- JUST LIKE A MORTGAGE IS TECHNICALLY

                    A CLOSED-ENDED CREDIT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, BECAUSE THE AUTOMOBILE

                    INDUSTRY IS ALREADY REGULATED.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WHERE OTHERS -- WHERE OTHERS

                    AREN'T.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  SO I GUESS THE WAY I'M

                    READING THIS, THOUGH, IS THAT IF YOU -- A MORTGAGE LENDER NOW HAS TO GET

                    A LICENSE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SAY THAT AGAIN, PLEASE.  I DIDN'T

                    UNDERSTAND.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  WHAT I'M SAYING, IT SAYS

                    RIGHT HERE, BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER LOAN MEANS CLOSED-ENDED CREDIT

                    PROVIDED TO CONSUMER.  A MORTGAGE COULD TECHNICALLY BE A

                    CLOSED-ENDED CREDIT BECAUSE THERE'S A DEFINITIVE END -- DEFINITIVE START

                    DATE, DEFINITIVE END DATE.  IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S A CREDIT CARD.

                                         190



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  SO TECHNICALLY, ACCORDING TO THIS,

                    IS A MORTGAGE BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO

                    OVERSEE IS BUYING NOW, PAYING LATER.  WHETHER IT IS INTEREST OR NOT

                    INTEREST, OR WHETHER IT'S A CLOSED-END LOAN, WHETHER IT'S AN OPEN-END

                    LOAN.  WE'RE JUST LOOKING -- LOOKING AT IT AS AN ENTITY THAT'S SELLING

                    SOMETHING OVER TIME UNLICENSED.

                                 LIKE, I'LL JUST GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE AND I HOPE WE --

                    DO YOU REMEMBER, LIKE, A FEW YEARS -- SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN YOU BUY

                    A CELL PHONE THEY WOULD TRY TO SELL YOU INSURANCE FOR YOUR PHONE --

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- AND THEN IT WAS DEEMED THAT

                    THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT WORKED BEHIND THE COUNTER REALLY SHOULD HAVE

                    BEEN INSURANCE AGENTS OR BROKERS AND THEY WEREN'T --

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- AND THEY WERE ACTUALLY BREAKING

                    THE LAWS SO NOW THEY CHANGED IT FROM INSURANCE POLICIES -- IT'S THE

                    SAME THING -- THEY'LL FIX YOUR PHONE IF YOU DROP IT BUT NOT REALLY

                    BECAUSE NO ONE EVER COLLECTS ON THOSE POLICIES, BUT -- BUT THEY CALL IT,

                    YOU KNOW, SOMETHING ELSE, THEY JUST CHANGED THE NAME OF IT.  WHAT

                    WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS JUST KEEP OUR CONSUMERS AS INFORMED AND AS SAFE

                    AS POSSIBLE.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  THAT'S AN -- THAT'S AN

                    ADMIRABLE -- ADMIRABLE TASK.  I JUST -- I GUESS THE OPEN-ENDED DEFINITION

                                         191



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OF IT IS A LITTLE CONCERNING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT -- IT -- IT -- THERE'S

                    QUESTIONS WITH REGARDS TO WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS TO APPLY FOR A LICENSE AND

                    WHO -- WHO DOESN'T.

                                 SO ASSUMING THESE REQUIREMENTS APPLY TO BANKING

                    ORGANIZATIONS THAT PROVIDE BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER SERVICES TO INDIVIDUALS

                    RESIDING IN OTHER STATES, THE QUESTION THEN BECOMES, IS THERE A CONCERN

                    THAT THIS COULD VIOLATE THE COMMERCE CLAUSE?  SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS --

                    THIS PROPOSAL COULD INADVERTENTLY REGULATE INTERSTATE COMMERCE.  HAS

                    THAT BEEN DISCUSSED AT ALL?.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THERE'S -- THAT'S A NO.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BUT THE DFS WOULD BE THE ONE THAT

                    WOULD DETERMINE AND MAKE THE REGULATIONS AS TO WHO HAS TO -- WHO

                    QUALIFIES AND WHO DOESN'T, WHO SHOULD GET THIS PARTICULAR LICENSE OR

                    WHO DOESN'T REALLY NEED IT.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  AND THEN AS FAR AS DFS IS

                    CONCERNED AND THE GUIDANCE WE'RE GIVING DFS WITHIN -- WITHIN THE TAX

                    TIER, I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY THE PAYABLE AND FOR -- OR FEWER INSTALLMENTS

                    WHICH WAS IN THE SENATE ONE-HOUSE, IS THERE A REASON THAT THAT WAS

                    REMOVED FROM THE FINAL BUDGET HERE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE NUMBER OF (INDISCERNIBLE) IS

                    REALLY AN ARBITRARY NUMBER, SO THERE WAS SOME DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN

                    THE THREE PARTIES DURING NEGOTIATIONS SO IT WAS TAKEN OUT.  IT WASN'T

                    INCLUDED.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  WELL, I'M NOT SURE HOW ARBITRARY IT

                                         192



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WAS AND THE REASON I BRING THAT UP IS BECAUSE THE CONSUMER -- THE

                    FEDERAL CONSUMER FINANCE PROTECTION BUREAU DEFINES BUY NOW, PAY --

                    BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER LOANS AS CLOSED AND INSTALLMENT LOANS THAT ARE

                    PAYABLE IN FOUR INSTALLMENTS.  SO WOULDN'T IT MAKE SENSE THEN TO USE AT

                    LEAST SIMILAR LANGUAGE TO WHAT THE FEDS REGULATE IT AS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME HAVE MANY

                    AS 12 INSTALLMENTS, YOU KNOW, OVER -- OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR, YOU

                    PAY OVER A YEAR, SO IT'S ARBITRARY WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  IS THERE ANY CONCERN THAT

                    THERE MIGHT BE A CONFLICT WITH -- WITH FEDERAL REGS SUCH AS THE

                    CONSUMER FINANCE PROTECTION BUREAU'S REGULATION LIKE UNDER THE --

                    LIKE THE TRUTH IN LENDING ACT.  IS THERE ANY CONFLICTS THAT COULD ARISE

                    HERE?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OUR LANGUAGE IS STRONGER THAN THE

                    LANGUAGE UNDER FEDERAL LEVEL AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE PUSHING THIS.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'RE -- WE'RE ALREADY SUBJECT TO

                    WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAID.  WE'RE STRENGTHENING THEIR

                    LANGUAGE.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  GOT IT.  OKAY.  SO COUPLE MORE

                    QUESTIONS HERE.

                                 I SEE THAT LENDERS IN HERE WILL BE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE

                    THEIR REASONABLE RISK BASE UNDERWRITING.  ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OTHER

                    LOANS IN NEW YORK STATE THAT WOULD REQUIRE A LENDER TO DISCLOSE WHAT

                                         193



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    COULD POTENTIALLY BE PROPRIETARY UNDERWRITING PRACTICES?  IS THERE -- I

                    FEAR THAT WE'RE SETTING A PRECEDENT HERE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, I'M NOT, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE -- I

                    THINK THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE SMALL AMOUNTS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH AND

                    THE LARGER INTEREST PAYMENTS THAT ARE REQUIRED.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  THE LEGISLATION -- WE'RE

                    TALKING -- WE'RE PUTTING A LOT ON DFS.  I MEAN IF YOU GO THROUGH THIS IS

                    A PRETTY DENSE PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  SO WE'RE ACTUALLY ASKING A LOT OF

                    DFS AND THIS IS PRETTY DENSE AND PRETTY COMPLICATED.

                                 SO I GUESS ANOTHER QUESTION I WOULD HAVE IS, ARE WE

                    PROVIDING DFS WITH ANY ADDITIONAL RESOURCES THAT THEY MAY NEED TO

                    COME UP WITH REGS ON THIS?  I DIDN'T SEE ANY IN THE -- IN THE BILL TEXT.  I

                    DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ANOTHER PORTION OF THE BUDGET.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, NO, BUT WE'RE -- WE'RE UNDER

                    -- UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THIS CAN BE FULFILLED BY THE EXISTING

                    RESOURCES.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  YOU HAVE GREATER FAITH THAN I DO.

                                 UNDER CURRENT LAW, LICENSE -- LICENSEES -- SORRY, UNDER

                    CURRENT LAW CREDIT LICENSURES ARE CAPPED AT 25 PERCENT.  ACCORDING TO

                    THE TEXT HERE, BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER ARE GOING TO BE CAPPED AT 16 PERCENT

                    INTEREST RATE.  WHY THE DISPARITY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BECAUSE THE AMOUNTS THAT WE'RE

                    DEALING WITH ARE SO SMALL.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY, BUT I MEAN THAT'S FINE, BUT IF

                    WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU USED THE EXAMPLE A

                                         194



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    $12 PAIR OF SUNGLASSES AT AMAZON.  I MEAN, WHY ARE WE DOING A, YOU

                    KNOW, AN ANNUALIZED LOAN RATE FOR SOMETHING THAT'S $12?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BECAUSE THAT'S HOW FINANCE WORKS.

                    I MEAN WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU WRITE A CHECK -- WE DON'T WRITE CHECKS

                    ANYMORE, BUT YOU KNOW HOW THEY PLAY THE FLOAT?

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE BANKS MAKE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS

                    JUST ON YOUR CHECK FROM YOUR BANK GETTING TO MY BANK OVER NIGHT.  SO

                    EVEN THOUGH WE'RE DEALING WITH SMALL NUMBERS, THE AGGREGATE OF THOSE

                    NUMBERS IS ENORMOUS IN MANY CASES.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  OKAY.  THE FINAL QUESTION I HAVE IS

                    IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT -- THAT YOU WILL BE THE FIRST STATE TO REGULATE,

                    FULLY REGULATE I SHOULD SAY BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER.  SO THERE'S -- TALKING TO

                    -- TO FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, THERE IS A LOT OF CONFUSION ON WHAT WE'RE

                    GIVING TO DFS TO COME UP WITH REGULATIONS FOR THIS.  SO I GUESS, WHY

                    NOW?  WHY IN THIS BUDGET?  I MEAN IT FEELS A LITTLE RUSHED.  IS THERE A

                    REASON THAT WE KIND OF PUSHED THIS THROUGH INTO THIS POINT?  LIKE,

                    WHAT'S -- WHAT'S THE IMPETUS OF THIS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT WAS PROBABLY AN IDEA WHOSE

                    TIME HAS COME.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  I'LL TAKE THAT.  WELL, THAT YOU VERY

                    MUCH, MR. PRETLOW.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. BOLOGNA:  SO I DEFINITELY THINK WE CAN ALL

                                         195



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    AGREE THAT PROTECTING CONSUMERS IS ESSENTIAL FOR THE HEALTH OF OUR

                    FINANCIAL SYSTEMS. PREDATORY PRACTICES SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE

                    ADMONISHED AND THESE PRACTICES ARE OFTEN THE CATALYST FOR REGULATIONS

                    THAT NEGATIVELY IMPACT RESPONSIBLE FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS.  AND

                    EVENTUALLY IMPACTS CONSUMERS, THE VERY PEOPLE WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT.

                    THE VAST MAJORITY OF FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS PROVIDE CONSUMERS WITH

                    PRODUCTS AND SERVICES THAT MEET THEIR NEEDS, OFFER CREDIT, LOANS AND

                    OPTIONS THAT ALLOW THEM TO INVEST, PURCHASE NECESSARY PRODUCTS AND

                    YES, EVEN BUILD CREDIT AND BUILD WEALTH.  SO WITH THAT SAID, WHEN

                    FINANCIAL PRODUCTS BECOME CUMBERSOME OBSTACLES OR UNFEASIBLE FOR

                    INSTITUTIONS TO PROVIDE, IT'S ULTIMATELY THAT IS THE CONSUMER THAT IS

                    DENIED ACCESS TO SAFE, LOW CREDIT -- SORRY, LOW COST CREDIT OPTIONS.  SO I

                    FEAR WHAT'S BEGINNING TO HAPPEN HERE IN NEW YORK STATE IS NEW YORK

                    STATE-CHARTERED INSTITUTIONS ARE SORT OF BEING IN THE CROSSHAIRS WITH

                    DEATH BY A THOUSAND CUTS.  INCREMENTALLY, WE ARE UNLEVELING THE

                    PLAYING FIELD WITH THE CONSTANT EXEMPTION OF NON-STATE CHARTERED

                    ORGANIZATIONS.  I FEAR WHAT THE IMPLI -- IMPLICATIONS ARE THERE.  THESE

                    EXEMPTIONS ARE, YOU KNOW, SETTING CONCERNING PRECEDENT AND ARE

                    CHIPPING AWAY AT STATE-CHARTERED ORGANIZATIONS AND ARE FORCING THEM

                    TO EITHER CLOSE THEIR DOORS OR SWITCH TO A FEDERAL CHARTER.

                                 IN ADDITION I DO HAVE CONCERNS THAT THE TRADITIONAL

                    PAY AND FOR LANGUAGE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE BUDGET.  IF WE'RE IN

                    FACT GOING TO REGULATE THIS PRODUCT IT WOULD STAND TO REASON THAT WE

                    INCLUDE ONE OF THE MOST COMMON METHODS OF USAGE IN THE REGULATION.

                    AND FINALLY I WANT TO MAKE THIS POINT.  MANY OF US ARE ACTUALLY

                                         196



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    REPRESENTING WHETHER IT'S URBAN, LIKE MYSELF, VERY RURAL COMMUNITIES.

                    THEY ARE VERY UNDERBANKED. YOU KNOW, IN MY COMMUNITIES, YOU

                    KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE TO TRAVEL 20, 30 MINUTES TO GET TO A FINANCIAL

                    INSTITUTION.  OFTENTIMES WE RELY ON STATE-CHARTERED CREDIT UNIONS AND

                    STATE-CHARTERED, YOU KNOW, SAVINGS BANKS AND BANKS TO MEET THOSE

                    FINANCIAL NEEDS.  I HAVE A GRAVE CONCERN.  I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE FIVE

                    MONTHS, BUT I CAN ALREADY SEE WHERE -- WHERE THIS IS HEADED.  AND I

                    JUST HAVE GRAVE CONCERNS THAT WE'RE DOING A DISSERVICE AND HURTING OUR

                    STATE-CHARTERED INSTITUTIONS BECAUSE WE CONSTANTLY ISOLATE THEM AND WE

                    ARE CONSTANTLY GIVING EXEMPTIONS TO LARGER FEDERAL BANKS.

                                 SO WITH THAT, CHAIR, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

                    ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.  MADAM SPEAKER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. GIGLIO.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I WILL

                    SPARE CHAIR PRETLOW AND GO ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL, MA'AM.

                                 MS. GIGLIO:  YEAH.  SO I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT OF

                    WHAT MY COLLEAGUE SPOKE ABOUT ABOUT SECTION KK WITH THE

                    MINORITY-WOMEN BUSINESS ENTERPRISE.  AND YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S REALLY

                    DISHEARTENING TO THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE DIRECTOR OF THE

                    DEPARTMENT PUT OUT AN RFP TO AN ENTITY THAT MAY NOT HAVE ANY

                    FAMILIARITY WITH THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY AS DO -- AS MANY OF THE

                    PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY WORK IN THAT OFFICE.  THEY DON'T HAVE A FAMILIARITY

                    WITH THE BUSINESS.  AND WOMEN CAN BE IN THE MIDDLE OF A CONTRACT AND

                                         197



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    FIND OUT THAT THEIR RECERTIFICATION HAS BEEN DENIED LEAVING THE

                    CONTRACTOR LIABLE TO MAKE UP THAT MWBE PARTICIPATION THAT THEY STARTED

                    THE CONTRACT WITH AND THAT THEY STARTED THE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT WITH.

                    AND THESE WOMEN THAT ARE BEING DENIED THEIR RECERTIFICATION ARE HAVING

                    TO SPEND UP TO $10,000 IN LEGAL FEES TO CHALLENGE THE DENIAL.  AND IT'S

                    JUST NOT FAIR.  IT HAPPENED TO FIVE WOMEN IN MY DISTRICT, AND I'M

                    HEARING FROM PEOPLE ALL OVER THE STATE.  AS A WBE AND HAVING MY OWN

                    CONSTRUCTION COMPANY SINCE 1997, NOW DOING CONSULTING, PEOPLE ARE

                    CALLING ME.  I'M ON THE EXECUTIVE BOARD FOR MY UNION, LOCAL 138

                    OPERATING ENGINEERS AND I TALK TO A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE CONSTRUCTION

                    TRADES AND THEY'RE HAVING TO FILE WAIVERS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FIND

                    PARTICIPATION FROM MINORITY OR WOMEN BUSINESS IN THE INDUSTRY AND

                    THAT'S REALLY DISHEARTENING.  I THINK THAT WE REALLY NEED TO INSTEAD OF

                    HIRING AN ENTITY, WE NEED TO ACCUMULATE A GROUP OF PEOPLE.  YOU COULD

                    EVEN GO TO THE WOMEN THAT WERE DECERTIFIED OR THE MINORITIES THAT WERE

                    DECERTIFIED AND SAY, WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM IN THE PROCESS AND IT WOULD

                    BE A VERY SIMPLE FIX AND IT WOULDN'T COST THE STATE ANY MONEY.  BUT GO

                    TO THE PEOPLE THAT IT AFFECTS THE MOST, THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE IN THE

                    CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY AND THE MWBES THAT RELY ON THE PROGRAM TO GET

                    HIRED BY BIGGER CONTRACTORS AND ACTUALLY GET TO WORK, AND THAT NEEDS TO

                    BE A QUICKER FIX, BECAUSE TWO YEARS IS TOO LONG TO WAIT AND WE NEED TO

                    DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT SOONER THAN LATER, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THESE GREAT

                    PROJECTS THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE SEEING THE STATE OF NEW YORK PUTTING

                    FORWARD WITH THE WEIGHT LIMITS ON THE ROADS AND -- AND THE

                    INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED, THE SEWAGE CONNECTIONS IN

                                         198



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SUFFOLK COUNTY AND A LOT OF GREAT THINGS THAT THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY HAS

                    DONE, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE THESE JOBS AVAILABLE FOR MINORITY WOMEN

                    BUSINESS ENTERPRISE, HAVE ONE POLICY, ONE CONSISTENT CHECKLIST THAT

                    THEY USE FOR EVERYBODY REGARDLESS OF THEIR, YOU KNOW, RACE OR COLOR,

                    BUT JUST HAVE EVERYBODY SCRUTINIZED THE SAME, MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE

                    FAMILIAR WITH THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY, GET THEM THEIR MWBES.

                    AUTOMATIC RENEWAL OF THE CERTIFICATIONS WITH RANDOM AUDITS I THINK IS A

                    GREAT IDEA THAT MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED EARLIER, BUT I DON'T THINK WE

                    NEED TO WAIT TWO YEARS.  I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO SPEND MONEY ON AN

                    ENTITY TO EXAMINE THIS.  IT'S -- IT'S REALLY VERY CLEAR AND JUST GO BACK TO

                    THE BUDGET HEARINGS WHEN WE SPOKE ABOUT THE MWBES AND IT WAS ALL

                    SAID THERE.  AND THEY'RE REALLY VERY SIMPLE FIXES.

                                 SO I -- I APPRECIATE THAT WE'RE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT

                    IT, BUT I THINK THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE TOO LONG TO GET IT DONE AND IN THE

                    INTERIM WE'RE GOING TO LOSE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT MAY BE INTERESTED IN

                    TRYING TO GET CERTIFIED OR TRYING TO GET RECERTIFIED.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                         199



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WITH THE PROVISION X

                    RELATED TO THE DYNAMIC PRICING.  WHAT --- WHAT ENTITIES ARE CURRENTLY

                    REGULATED IN THIS ITERATION OF THIS LEGISLATION INSIDE THE BUDGET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ALL BUSINESSES IN NEW YORK WITH

                    THE EXCEPTION OF BANKS, INSURANCE COMPANIES, INSURANCE AND

                    RIDE-SHARE, UBER, LYFT.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO THEY CAN'T USE LOCATIONS

                    -- IF THEY'RE USING LOCATION SERVICES TO PRICE DYNAMICALLY, THEN THEY'RE

                    EXEMPT, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  AND IF THEY'RE IN THE

                    BANKING INDUSTRY OR REGULATED UNDER INSURANCE LAW, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEP.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO WHAT ABOUT BANKING

                    AFFILIATES, AFFILIATED COMPANIES TO FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS OR COMPANIES

                    THAT HAVE FORMER RELATIONSHIPS THAT MAKE THEM BANKING AFFILIATES OR

                    AFFILIATES OF FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THEY'RE -- THEY'RE ALL INCLUDED

                    IN --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  IN THE EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, IN THE EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  OKAY.  SO AFFILIATE

                    COMPANIES OF SAY AMERICAN EXPRESS, LIKE TICKETMASTER.  WOULD THEY

                    BE CONSIDERED OR ARGUABLY BE CONSIDERED AN AFFILIATE OF A FINANCIAL

                    INSTITUTION THAT'S --

                                         200



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE WOULDN'T BE -- THEY WOULD

                    NOT BE CONSIDERED AN AFFILIATE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WHAT ABOUT AFFILIATES -- OR

                    WHAT ABOUT ANY SUBSIDIARY OF A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO SAY RESY OR OTHER

                    RESERVATION SERVICES OWNED BY BANKING OR CREDIT CARD COMPANIES

                    WOULD NOT BE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY -- THEY WOULD -- THEY WOULD

                    BE -- NO, THEY WOULD BE INCLUDED.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WHY WOULD THEY BE

                    INCLUDED IF THEY'RE OWNED BY A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO. WE'RE TALKING TWO DIFFERENT

                    THINGS.  THEY'RE INCLUDED IN THE EXEMPTION.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  IN THE EXEMPTION, OKAY.

                                 WHERE BESIDES BANKING AND RIDE-SHARE DO YOU SEE THAT

                    THIS IS THE MOST EGREGIOUS THAT THERE'S A NEED FOR A DISCLOSURE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T KNOW A HUNDRED PERCENT

                    HOW FACTUAL WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY IS, BUT IT IS MY BELIEF THAT ONLINE

                    PURCHASES PRICES HAVE CHANGED BASED ON WHO WAS MAKING THE ORDER.  IT

                    HAS NOT HAPPENED TO ME PERSONALLY BUT I HAVE HEARD THAT INDIVIDUALS

                    HAVE GONE TO THE SAME WEBSITE, SEEN THE SAME ITEM AND THE PRICE WAS

                    DIFFERENT FOR EACH OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WAS LOOKING AT IT.  NOW I'M

                    PRETTY SURE THAT THAT WAS BASED ON SOME ALGORITHM AS HOW THE PEOPLE

                    DO THEIR PURCHASING AND THE PRICE WAS THEN SHOWN TO THEM TO BE WHAT IT

                                         201



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IS.

                                 IF YOU LOOK AT -- THERE'S A WEBSITE CALL TEMU.  THEIR

                    PRICES ARE -- YOU LOOK AT IT ONE DAY AND IT'S A PENNY, THE NEXT DAY IT'S

                    $12.  YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT'S ALL ABOUT BUT MY FORMER

                    EXAMPLE IS WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO VALID ANECDOTE.  IF I AM

                    AMAZON AND I HAVE BUSINESS, WHICH AMAZON HAS A LOT OF BUSINESS THAT

                    WOULD CATEGORIZE ME IN SOME CAPACITY OR ONE OF MY SUBSIDIARIES AS A

                    FINANCIAL INSTITUTION AND I'M BEING REGULATED AS SUCH, WOULD THEY NOT

                    BE SUBJECT TO THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION OR PROVISION OF THE BUDGET?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M GOING TO READ YOU THE

                    DEFINITION BECAUSE... ANY FINANCIAL INSTITUTION OR AFFILIATE OF A FINANCIAL

                    INSTITUTION ALL HAS DEFINED IN U.S. -- IN 15 UNITED STATES CODE 6809 TO

                    THE EXTENT THAT THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTION OR AFFILIATE IS SUBJECT TO TITLE V

                    OF THE GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY ACT 15 -- UNITED STATES CODE §6801 AND

                    AMENDED FOR THE RULES AND IMPLEMENTATION AND REGULATIONS

                    PROMULGATED THEREUNDER.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO IT DOES INCLUDE AFFILIATES

                    OF FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEAH.  SO IF THE ENTITY IS SUBJECT TO

                    THOSE REFERENCES THEN THEY'RE SUBJECT TO THIS DYNAMIC PRICING RULE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WHEN YOU SAY "SUBJECT TO"

                    -- THE LACK OF CLARITY HERE IS BECAUSE A LOT OF LARGE-SCALE BUSINESSES THAT

                    MAY OPERATE MAY HAVE SOME PORTION OF THEIR BUSINESS THAT IS SUBJECT

                                         202



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    TO, OR MAY HAVE AN AFFILIATE THAT IS NOT THAT IS PROVIDING AND HAVING THE

                    TYPE OF PRICING THAT YOU'RE ENUMERATING NEEDS TO BE DISCLOSED. IT JUST

                    SEEMS A LITTLE VAGUE AND CATCHALL AND YET ALSO DOES NOT ENCOMPASS

                    MANY OF THE BUSINESSES THAT ACTUALLY DO THIS PRACTICE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SO WHAT I JUST READ IS WHAT

                    QUALIFIES FOR THE EXEMPTION.  IF YOU DON'T FIT THAT CRITERIA THEN YOU'RE NOT

                    EXEMPT.  THAT'S THE EASIEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  NOW LET'S SAY A COMPANY

                    ISN'T EXEMPT.  IS IT THE BELIEF THAT THAT VERY DISCLOSURE THAT STATES QUOTE,

                    "THIS PRICE WAS SET BY AN ALGORITHM USING YOUR PERSONAL DATA WILL

                    CHANGE PURCHASING BEHAVIOR."  IS THERE ANY (INDISCERNIBLE) TO SHOW

                    THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WILL THAT HELP THE CONSUMER MAKE

                    A DECISION?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  IS THERE OTHER OPTIONS IN

                    MANY OF THESE CASES, PLACES LIKE TICKETMASTER.  THERE ISN'T ANOTHER

                    PLACE TO GO GET A TICKET.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THERE'S VIVID, THERE'S

                    TICKETMASTER.  THERE'S -- THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  IT DEPENDS ON IF THEY HAVE

                    EXCLUSIVE --

                                 (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE ARE CROOKS, BUT THEY HAVE A

                    LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES TO GO.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  IF IT IS SUCH A BIG PROBLEM

                                         203



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THEN WHY NOT SIMPLY BAN THE PRACTICE ENTIRELY?  WHY EVEN -- LIKE I

                    SAID, TICKETMASTER GIVE AN EXCLUSIVE THAT (INDISCERNIBLE) CAN SELL A

                    TICKET LEGALLY.  NOW IT DISCLOSES IT.  HOW CAN THAT CHANGE BEHAVIOR

                    WHEN THERE'S STILL NOT ALLEGED PRACTICES IN CERTAIN EVENTS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  MR. BLUMENCRANZ, I KNOW YOU'RE

                    NOT PROPOSING MORE REGULATIONS, ARE YOU?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  JUST WONDERING IF WE'RE

                    TRYING TO CLAIM SOMETHING IS DOING SOMETHING.  IS IT ACTUALLY DOING THE

                    THING IT'S CLAIMING TO DO.  JUST TRYING TO BE DISINGENUOUS TO THE PEOPLE

                    OF NEW YORK, RIGHT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.  WE'RE -- WE'RE -- WE'RE JUST

                    TRYING TO MAKE THINGS FAIR FOR EVERYONE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  NOW YOU SAY FAIRNESS.  THE

                    LEGISLATION ITSELF IT HAS A MECHANISM FOR -- AND RECOURSE IF THEY FIND

                    THAT SOMEONE IS VIOLATING THIS LAW, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  NOW WHAT DOES THAT ENTAIL

                    IN YOUR READING OF THE BILL?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  THERE'S SUBJECT TO AN

                    INVESTIGATION BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND AFTER THAT THEY'RE SUBJECT TO

                    CIVIL PENALTIES.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  CIVIL PENALTIES.  SO THERE'S

                    -- IS THERE A PRIVATE RIGHT TO ACTION INVOLVED WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO FEEL

                    THAT THIS IS HAPPENING UNDER --

                                         204



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.  I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  NO PRIVATE RIGHT TO ACTION?

                    SO WHAT -- SO WHO -- HOW WOULD CIVIL -- I KNOW THAT THERE'S NO HARM

                    NEEDED FOR CIVIL PENALTIES, OR NO HARM TO BE PROVEN, SO HOW WOULD

                    THOSE CIVIL PENALTIES WORK IN THE AG'S OFFICE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THAT'S USUALLY DETERMINED BY

                    -- BY ACTIONS THROUGH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SORRY.  CAN YOU REPEAT THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I SAID THOSE PENALTIES ARE USUALLY

                    DETERMINED THROUGH SOME INTERACTION WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S

                    OFFICE WHICH WOULD BE THE ENTITY DOING THE INVESTIGATION.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  AND DO YOU THINK THAT WILL

                    BE PER OCCURRENCE, OR IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE JUST IF IT'S HAPPENING AT

                    ALL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT WOULD PROBABLY BE PER

                    OCCURRENCE.  WE KNOW IT'S HAPPENING, SO WE HAVE TO -- IT'LL BE BY

                    OCCURRENCE, I BELIEVE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO THE BILL DOES NOT PROVIDE

                    A CLEAR THRESHOLD FOR WHEN PRICING SYSTEMS QUALIFY AS ALGORITHMIC.

                    DOES THIS MEANS THAT BUSINESSES THAT USE AUTOMATED SOFTWARE TO ADJUST

                    PRICES MUST COMPLY?  MANY PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY SMALL BUSINESSES, USE

                    AND UTILIZE SOFTWARE AS A SERVICE SYSTEM THAT THEY USE TO SET OR TAKE

                    RECOMMENDATIONS ON PRICING.  HOW -- HOW WOULD THEY BE EFFECTED?

                    ARE THEY THE ONES -- THE ONEROUS ON THE BUSINESSOWNER, EVEN IF THEY

                    USE A SOFTWARE AND ARE UNAWARE OF THE ALGORITHMS INCLUDED?

                                         205



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SO YOU WANT THE DEFINITION OF

                    ALGORITHMS?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SURE.  THAT'S A GOOD START.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  IT'S A COMPUTER NATIONAL

                    AUTOMATED PROCESS THAT USES A SET OF RULES TO DETERMINE A SEQUENCE OF

                    OPERATIONS.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO I'M A SMALL BUSINESS.  I

                    CONTRACT OR PURCHASE A MONTHLY SOFTWARE THAT HELPS ME SET AND ADJUST

                    PRICES TO MAKE SURE I'M MEETING THE MARKET RATE MAXIMIZING WHAT I

                    CAN GET FROM MY COMMUNITY AS A SMALL BUSINESSOWNER.  IS THE ONEROUS

                    ON ME TO MAKE SURE THAT DISCLOSURE IS PROVIDED WHEN THEY PURCHASE

                    SOMETHING FROM ME, OR IS IT ON THE SOFTWARE SERVICE THAT IS PROVIDING

                    ME THEIR SERVICE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, IT'S WHOEVER SETTING THE

                    PRICE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO PRICE RECOMMENDATIONS

                    ARE ALLOWED, SO I CAN USE THE SOFTWARE TO ACCEPT THE RECOMMENDATION,

                    BUT BECAUSE I DIDN'T PERSONALLY USE THE SOFTWARE, I CAN SET THE PRICE

                    WITHOUT DISCLOSURE BECAUSE IT WAS RECOMMENDED TO ME BUT I'M NOT THE

                    ONE THAT USED AN ALGORITHM?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW, THE SPIRIT

                    OF THE LAW IS TO NOT HAVE INDIVIDUAL -- OR GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO USE AN

                    ALGORITHM TO DETERMINE THE PRICE.  IF YOU USE AN ALGORITHM TO DETERMINE

                                         206



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE PRICE WHETHER THE PERSON YOU BOUGHT YOUR SOFTWARE FROM OR RENTED

                    YOUR SOFTWARE FROM OR LEASED YOUR SOFT -- SOFTWARE FROM OR YOURSELF,

                    WHOMEVER OF THE FOUR ENTITIES I JUST MENTIONED, IS RESPONSIBLE AND IS

                    LIABLE THROUGH ANY PENALTIES THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE ADJUDICATED

                    THROUGH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  I THINK YOU AND I BOTH KNOW

                    THAT IF THERE WILL BE SUITS AND THERE WILL BE MANY SUITS IF US -- LET'S SAY A

                    SOFTWARE THAT I'M PROVIDED IS PROVIDED -- USING AN ALGORITHM.  THEY ARE

                    NOT REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE TO ME THEY'LL BE USING IT, AND THEN THEY CAN

                    PROVIDE ME A SERVICE AND I BECOME WILLFULLY UNAWARE THAT I'M BREAKING

                    THE LAW BECAUSE THE SOFTWARE I'M PROVIDING IS BREAKING THE LAW.

                    THERE'S A LOT OF SPIRIT IN THIS BILL.  I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW IN

                    PRACTICE MANY OF THESE REGS THAT ARE PLACED IN HERE ARE POSSIBLE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU MENTIONED A LOT OF LAWSUITS.

                    THAT'S WHY WE HAVE SO MANY LAWYERS.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  AND THEY'LL BE AN AWFUL LOT

                    THAT'LL BE HAPPY ABOUT THIS BILL SO...

                                 MANY INSURANCE COMPANIES USE ALGORITHMS TO SET

                    PREMIUMS BASED ON CONSUMER DATA.  SHOULDN'T THESE CUSTOMERS BE

                    AWARE, AGAIN, WHERE ARE WE SEE ACTUAL EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE OF THE

                    NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF THIS SEEM TO BE COMPLETELY LEFT OUT OF THE EQUATION

                    IN THE PRACTICE OF THIS BILL.  I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW,

                    THERE WAS A GENESIS THAT THIS WOULD HELP THE COMMUNITY UNDERSTAND

                    WHERE THIS PRICING IS BEING UTILIZED, AND YET WE LEAVE OUT PRETTY MUCH

                    EVERY INDUSTRY THAT UTILIZES IT.

                                         207



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THIS IS JUST -- JUST FOR

                    DISCLOSURE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  OKAY.  SO IS IT GOOD THAT WE

                    DISCLOSE WHEN IT'S HAPPENING OR IT DOESN'T MATTER OR MAYBE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO DISCLOSE

                    IT.  WE ALWAYS LIKE FULL DISCLOSURE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  EXCEPT (INDISCERNIBLE)

                    DOESN'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE, RIGHT?  OKAY.  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  I THINK THAT DYNAMIC PRICING

                    IS ONE OF THE COMPONENTS OF THE BUDGET THIS YEAR, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT

                    PROBLEM, IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE TACKLED.  I THINK THAT THERE ARE

                    INSTANCES WHERE IT CAN SYSTEMICALLY HARM CONSUMERS AND VIOLATE MANY

                    PRACTICES WE HOLD DEAR IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY WHILE STILL TRYING TO

                    ACHIEVE FAIRNESS.  I THINK THAT WE REALLY NEED TO GET A HOLD OF AND TACKLE

                    WHERE PRICES AND PRICE COLLUSION IS HAPPENING AND HURTING EVERYBODY

                    IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.  THIS BILL SAYS IT DOES SOMETHING AND

                    SIMULTANEOUSLY DOES NOTHING AT ALL.  THE SPIRIT OF THE BILL IS ABOUT ALL

                    THAT THE BILL MAINTAINS BESIDES MAKING SURE A LOT OF LAWYERS WILL FIND

                    WAYS TO WORK THEIR WAY AROUND IT.

                                 SO I APPRECIATE THE SPIRIT OF THE BILL, BUT I DO THINK WE

                    NEED TO WORK TOGETHER AND A LITTLE BIT HARDER TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE OF

                    NEW YORK.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                         208



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  A PARTY VOTE HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 THE MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON

                    THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  IF MEMBERS WANT TO VOTE YES, THEY CAN DO SO

                    AT THEIR SEATS.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. FALL.

                                 MR. FALL:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON

                    THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION OR BUDGET BILL.  FOR THOSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO

                    VOTE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, THEY CAN DO SO IN THE CHAMBER AT THEIR

                    DESK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MS. ROZIC TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. ROZIC:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 REALLY QUICKLY SINCE I KNOW WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO

                    GO.  I JUST WANT TO COMMENT VERY QUICKLY ON THE CONSUMER PROTECTIONS

                    THAT WE ARE DELIVERING IN THIS BUDGET BILL, WHICH IS HUGE FOR ALL NEW

                    YORKERS IN TODAY'S DIGITAL MARKETPLACE.  THIS IS A MAJOR STEP FORWARD IN

                                         209



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PROTECTING CONSUMERS.  IT PROVIDES NOT ONLY FAIRNESS, ACCOUNTABILITY BUT

                    IT ALSO PUTS CONSUMERS FIRST, AND THE ASSEMBLY MAJORITY, WE FOUGHT TO

                    INCLUDE MANY MEASURES INCLUDING REQUIRING AI COMPANIONS TO ALERT

                    USERS THAT THEY'RE NOT COMMUNICATING WITH A HUMAN, AND TO ALLOW THE

                    PROTOCOL IF USERS EXPRESS SUICIDAL IDEATION OR SELF-HARM.  IT MANDATES

                    CLEAR RETURN AND REFUND POLICIES.  IT REQUIRES SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES TO

                    PROVIDE SIMPLE, CLEAR CANCELLATION METHODS.  AND IT ALSO DEMANDS

                    BUSINESSES TO DISCLOSE WHEN PRICES ARE GENERATED USING PERSONAL DATA

                    THROUGH ALGORITHMIC PRICING MODELS.  WE ALSO PROVIDE NEW FUNDING FOR

                    CONSUMERS WHEN THEY HAVE UTILITY-RELATED MATTERS.

                                 NEW YORKERS ARE NOW BETTER EQUIPPED, INFORMED,

                    EMPOWERED AND PROTECTED THANKS TO THIS BUDGET.  AND I WOULD BE

                    REMISS IF I DIDN'T ALSO THANK THE AMAZING COMMITTEE STAFF THAT WORKED

                    ON A LOT OF THESE MEASURES INCLUDING MATT, EMILY, SKYE AND ALLY.

                                 SO WITH THAT, I JUST WITHDRAW MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. ROZIC IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. TORRES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. TORRES:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 I RISE TODAY IN STRONG SUPPORT OF THIS BUDGET BILL,

                    PARTICULARLY PART X AS IT RELATES TO THE DISCLOSURE OF ALGORITHMIC PRICING.

                    CONSUMERS TODAY ARE OFTEN SUBJECT TO PRICING ON LINE THAT CHANGES NOT

                    BECAUSE OF SIMPLE SUPPLY AND DEMAND, BUT BECAUSE OF WHO THEY ARE,

                    THEIR PERSONAL DATA.  ALGORITHMS THAT SET PRICES BASED ON OUR PERSONAL

                                         210



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    DATA FROM OLD SEARCHES, YOUR ZIP CODE, GENDER, RACE AND BEYOND,

                    INFLUENCES THE PRICE THAT WE ARE OFFERED FOR A PRODUCT.  AND

                    UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS COMMON PRACTICE WITH NEW YORKERS BEING

                    CHARGED DIFFERENT PRICES FOR THE SAME EXACT PRODUCT.  IT AFFECTS

                    EVERYONE.  NEW YORKERS DESERVE TO KNOW WHEN THEY'RE BEING CHARGED

                    A DIFFERENT PRICE FOR THE SAME PRODUCT BECAUSE OF WHO THEY ARE, AND SO

                    THIS BILL SETS AN IMPORTANT STANDARD.  IF A COMPANY USES YOUR PERSONAL

                    DATA TO SET A PRICE FOR YOU, THEY MUST TELL YOU.  IT ENSURES CLEAR

                    DISCLOSURE AND ACCOUNTABILITY.  AND NEW YORK WILL BE THE FIRST IN THE

                    NATION TO IMPLEMENT THE STANDARD AND INFORM CONSUMERS ABOUT

                    DYNAMIC PRICING.

                                 I AM PROUD TO HAVE WORKED ON THIS CRITICAL PROVISION

                    WITH MANY COLLEAGUES AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. TORRES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.

                                 I RISE TODAY A BIT SAD AT THE LACK OF EMPHASIS WE'VE

                    PLACED ON MAKING SURE THAT AS WE CREATE AND DEVELOP THE CAPITAL PLAN,

                    AS WE WRITE CHECKS FOR BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO FUND AN MTA THAT

                    CONTINUES TO HEMORRHAGE MONEY AND LACK A COHESIVE LEADERSHIP THAT

                    PROVIDES US WITH A FUTURE IN WHICH THE MTA WILL NOT BE THE LEAST

                    EFFICIENT TRANSIT SYSTEM WHEN IT COMES TO DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR SPENDING

                                         211



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHERE THEY CONTINUE TO NOT HAVE THE OVERSIGHT THEY NEED.

                                 FOR THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS I HAVE BEEN CONTINUING

                    AND ECHOING THE CALL THAT MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE.  IT IS TIME WE

                    HAVE AN INDEPENDENT FORENSIC AUDIT OF THE MTA.  NOT ONE WHERE THEY

                    GET TO CHERRY-PICK WHAT WE GET TO SEE.  NOT ONE WHERE THEY GET TO

                    DECIDE WHAT THEY SHOW US OR NOT, BUT ONE THAT SHOWS US ALL OF THE

                    NUMBERS, SHOWS US WHERE THE WASTE, WHERE THE INEFFICIENCY, WHERE THE

                    LACK OF MANAGEMENT IS MOST GLARING.  IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT IT COSTS MORE

                    TO BUILD A (INDISCERNIBLE) TRACK IN NEW YORK THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE

                    WORLD.  CITIES SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BUILD TRAIN LINES IN THE TIME IT TAKES

                    US TO CREATE A PLAN.  IT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES SADDLING NEW

                    YORKERS AND WE CONTINUE TO PAY FOR IT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.  WE HAVE

                    ALL SEEN THE TAXES INCURRED ON NEW YORKERS, LONG ISLANDERS ESPECIALLY

                    FACE THIS ISSUE WHEN IT COMES TO THE BURDEN OF CONGESTION PRICING AS

                    WELL.  SO I EMPHASIZE MY COLLEAGUES VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE UNTIL WE

                    DECIDE TO REALLY HANDLE THE MTA THE WAY WE SHOULD.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE

                    THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MR. FALL.

                                 MR. FALL:  MADAM SPEAKER, CAN THE HOUSE NOW

                                         212



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    STAND AT EASE UNTIL 7:30 P.M. THIS EVENING.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON MR. FALL'S MOTION THE HOUSE STANDS AT EASE UNTIL

                    7:30 P.M.















                                 (WHEREUPON, THE HOUSE WAS CALLED BACK TO ORDER AT

                    7:55 P.M.)

                                 *****************************



                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE HOUSE WILL

                    COME TO ORDER.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU.  WE'RE GOING

                    TO GO RIGHT TO PAGE 7 AND TO RULES REPORT NO. 180.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  PAGE 7, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 180, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY NO. A03007-C, RULES

                    REPORT NO. 180, BUDGET BILL.  AN ACT TO AMEND PART H OF CHAPTER 59

                    OF THE LAWS OF 2011, AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND OTHER LAWS

                    RELATING TO GENERAL HOSPITAL REIMBURSEMENT FOR ANNUAL RATES, IN RELATION

                                         213



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    TO KNOWN AND PROJECTED DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH STATE FUND MEDICAID

                    EXPENDITURES (PART A); TO AMEND PART B OF CHAPTER 57 OF THE LAWS OF

                    2015, AMENDING THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO

                    SUPPLEMENTAL REBATES, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION THEREOF;

                    TO AMEND CHAPTER 942 OF THE LAWS OF 1983 AND CHAPTER 541 OF THE

                    LAWS OF 1984 RELATING TO FOSTER FAMILY CARE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAMS,

                    IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATIONS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 256

                    OF THE LAWS OF 1985, AMENDING THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW AND OTHER

                    LAWS RELATING TO FOSTER FAMILY CARE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAMS, IN RELATION

                    TO EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION THEREOF; TO AMEND PART C OF CHAPTER 58 OF

                    THE LAWS OF 2009, AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING TO

                    PAYMENT BY GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES FOR GENERAL HOSPITAL INPATIENT

                    SERVICES, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 474

                    OF THE LAWS OF 1996, AMENDING THE EDUCATION LAW AND OTHER LAWS

                    RELATING TO RATES FOR RESIDENTIAL HEALTHCARE FACILITIES, IN RELATION TO THE

                    EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    MOBILE INTEGRATED AND COMMUNITY PARAMEDICINE; TO AMEND SECTION 2

                    OF CHAPTER 137 OF THE LAWS OF 2023, AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW

                    RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A COMMUNITY-BASED PARAMEDICINE

                    DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS

                    THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 81 OF THE LAWS OF 1995, AMENDING THE

                    PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO MEDICAL REIMBURSEMENT

                    AND WELFARE REFORM, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS OF

                    CERTAIN PROVISIONS THEREOF; TO AMEND PART FFF OF CHAPTER 59 OF THE

                    LAWS OF 2018, AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING TO AUTHORIZING

                                         214



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH TO REDEPLOY EXCESS RESERVES OF CERTAIN

                    NOT-FOR-PROFIT MANAGED-CARE ORGANIZATIONS, IN RELATION TO THE

                    EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 451 OF THE LAWS OF 2007,

                    AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW AND THE

                    INSURANCE LAW RELATING TO PROVIDING ENHANCED CONSUMER AND

                    PROVIDER PROTECTIONS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS OF CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS RELATING TO CONTRACTS BETWEEN PLANS, INSURERS, OR

                    CORPORATIONS AND HOSPITALS; TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO REIMBURSEMENT RATE PROMULGATION FOR RESIDENTIAL HEALTH CARE

                    FACILITIES, AND IN RELATION TO CERTIFIED HOME HEALTH AGENCY SERVICES

                    PAYMENTS; TO AMEND PART C OF CHAPTER 60 OF THE LAWS OF 2014,

                    AMENDING THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW RELATING TO FAIR HEARINGS WITHIN THE

                    FULLY INTEGRATED DUALS ADVANTAGE PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO THE

                    EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 884 OF THE LAWS OF 1990,

                    AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING TO AUTHORIZING BAD DEBT AND

                    CHARITY CARE ALLOWANCES FOR CERTIFIED HOME HEALTH AGENCIES, IN RELATION

                    TO EXTENDING THE PROVISIONS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 81 OF THE LAWS

                    OF 1995, AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO

                    MEDICAL REIMBURSEMENT AND WELFARE REFORM, IN RELATION TO THE

                    EFFECTIVENESS OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS THEREOF; TO AMEND PART A OF CHAPTER

                    56 OF THE LAWS OF 2013, AMENDING CHAPTER 59 OF THE LAWS OF 2011

                    AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO GENERAL

                    HOSPITAL REIMBURSEMENT FOR ANNUAL RATES, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING

                    GOVERNMENT RATES FOR BEHAVIORAL SERVICES; TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO GROSS RECEIPTS FOR GENERAL HOSPITAL ASSESSMENTS; TO

                                         215



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    AMEND PART MM OF CHAPTER 57 OF THE LAWS OF 2021 AMENDING THE

                    PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING TO AIDING IN THE TRANSITION TO ADULTHOOD FOR

                    CHILDREN WITH MEDICAL FRAGILITY LIVING IN PEDIATRIC NURSING HOMES AND

                    OTHER SETTINGS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 633 OF THE LAWS OF 2006, AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW

                    RELATING TO THE HOME BASED PRIMARY CARE FOR THE ELDERLY DEMONSTRATION

                    PROJECT, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO AMEND CHAPTER 19

                    OF THE LAWS OF 1998, AMENDING THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW RELATING TO

                    LIMITING THE METHOD OF PAYMENT FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS UNDER THE

                    MEDICAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF; TO

                    AMEND PART BBB OF CHAPTER 56 OF THE LAWS OF 2022, AMENDING THE

                    PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO PERMITTING THE

                    COMMISSION OF HEALTH TO SUBMIT A WAIVER THAT EXPANDS ELIGIBILITY FOR

                    NEW YORK'S BASIC HEALTH PROGRAM AND INCREASES THE FEDERAL POVERTY

                    LIMIT CAP FOR BASIC HEALTH PROGRAM ELIGIBILITY FROM TWO HUNDRED TO TWO

                    HUNDRED FIFTY PERCENT, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING CERTAIN PROVISIONS

                    RELATED TO PROVIDING LONG-TERM SERVICES AND SUPPORTS UNDER THE

                    ESSENTIAL PLAN; TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO WHICH

                    CONTRACTS STAY IN FORCE AFTER SEPTEMBER 30, 2025; TO AMEND PART MM

                    OF CHAPTER 56 OF THE LAWS OF 2020 DIRECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH

                    TO ESTABLISH OR PROCURE THE SERVICES OF AN INDEPENDENT PANEL OF CLINICAL

                    PROFESSIONALS AND TO DEVELOP AND IMPLEMENT A UNIFORM TASK-BASED

                    ASSESSMENT TOOL, IN RELATION TO WHICH CONTRACTS STAY IN FORCE AFTER

                    SEPTEMBER 30, 2025; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 769 OF THE LAWS OF 2023

                    AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING TO THE ADULT CYSTIC FIBROSIS

                                         216



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART B);

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART C); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO SUPPLEMENTAL HOSPITAL PAYMENTS (PART D); TO AMEND THE

                    SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO SHIFTING LONG-TERM NURSING HOME

                    STAYS FROM MANAGED CARE TO FEE FOR SERVICE, AND AUTHORIZING PENALTIES

                    FOR MANAGED CARE PLANS THAT DO NOT MEET CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS (PART

                    E); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A TAX

                    ON MANAGED CARE PROVIDERS; TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE HEALTHCARE STABILITY FUND; AND TO AMEND PART I OF

                    CHAPTER 57 OF THE LAWS OF 2022 PROVIDING A ONE PERCENT ACROSS THE

                    BOARD PAYMENT INCREASE TO ALL QUALIFYING FEE-FOR-SERVICE MEDICAID

                    RATES, IN RELATION TO CERTAIN MEDICAID PAYMENTS MADE FOR CERTAIN

                    MEDICAL SERVICES (PART F); TO AMEND CHAPTER 266 OF THE LAWS OF 1986

                    AMENDING THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND RULES AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO

                    MALPRACTICE AND PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL CONDUCT, IN RELATION TO INSURANCE

                    COVERAGE PAID FOR BY FUNDS FROM THE HOSPITAL EXCESS LIABILITY POOL AND

                    EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS THEREOF; TO AMEND

                    PART J OF CHAPTER 63 OF THE LAWS OF 2001 AMENDING CHAPTER 266 OF THE

                    LAWS OF 1986 AMENDING THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND RULES AND OTHER

                    LAWS RELATING TO MALPRACTICE AND PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL CONDUCT, IN

                    RELATION TO EXTENDING CERTAIN PROVISIONS CONCERNING THE HOSPITAL EXCESS

                    LIABILITY POOL; AND TO AMEND PART H OF CHAPTER 57 OF THE LAWS OF 2017

                    AMENDING THE NEW YORK HEALTH CARE REFORM ACT OF 1996 AND OTHER

                    LAWS RELATING TO EXTENDING CERTAIN PROVISIONS RELATING THERETO, IN

                    RELATION TO EXTENDING PROVISIONS RELATING TO EXCESS COVERAGE (PART G);

                                         217



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART H); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO ELIMINATING THE FEES PAID BY FUNERAL DIRECTORS FOR PERMITS

                    FOR BURIALS AND REMOVALS WHICH ARE USED TO SUPPORT THE ELECTRONIC

                    DEATH REGISTRATION SYSTEM; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH LAW

                    RELATING THERETO (PART I); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE DUE DATE FOR AWARDS APPLIED FOR UNDER THE STATEWIDE HEALTH CARE

                    FACILITY TRANSFORMATION III PROGRAM (PART J); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART

                    K); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART L); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO REQUIRING GENERAL HOSPITALS TO REPORT COMMUNITY BENEFIT

                    SPENDING (PART M); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART N); INTENTIONALLY

                    OMITTED (PART O); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    REQUIRING HOSPITALS TO PROVIDE STABILIZING CARE TO PREGNANT INDIVIDUALS;

                    AND TO REPEAL SECTION 2803-O-1 OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, RELATING TO

                    REQUIRED PROTOCOLS FOR FETAL DEMISE (PART P); TO AMEND THE SOCIAL

                    SERVICES LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING INCREASED COVERAGE OF CARE AS

                    WELL AS AVAILABILITY OF CARE FOR INFERTILITY TREATMENTS; AND TO AMEND

                    SECTION 4 OF PART K OF CHAPTER 82 OF THE LAWS OF 2002 AMENDING THE

                    INSURANCE LAW AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING TO COVERAGE FOR THE

                    DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT OF INFERTILITY, RELATING TO A PROGRAM TO PROVIDE

                    GRANTS TO HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS FOR IMPROVING ACCESS TO INFERTILITY (PART

                    Q); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART R); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART S); TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING HOSPITALS TO

                    MAINTAIN SEXUAL ASSAULT FORENSIC EXAMINERS AT THEIR FACILITIES; AND TO

                    AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO MAKING TECHNICAL CORRECTIONS

                    THERETO (PART T); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART U); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED

                                         218



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    (PART V); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART W); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART

                    X); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART Y); TO AMEND CHAPTER 565 OF THE LAWS

                    OF 2022 AMENDING THE STATE FINANCE LAW RELATING TO PREFERRED SOURCE

                    STATUS FOR ENTITIES THAT PROVIDE EMPLOYMENT TO CERTAIN PERSONS; AND TO

                    AMEND CHAPTER 91 OF THE LAWS OF 2023 AMENDING THE STATE FINANCE

                    LAW RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A THRESHOLD FOR THE AMOUNT OF WORK

                    NEEDED TO BE PERFORMED BY A PREFERRED SOURCE WHICH IS AN APPROVED

                    CHARITABLE NON-PROFIT-MAKING AGENCY FOR THE BLIND, IN RELATION TO THE

                    EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART Z); TO AMEND PART NN OF CHAPTER 58 OF THE

                    LAWS OF 2015, AMENDING THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW RELATING TO

                    CLARIFYING THE AUTHORITY OF THE COMMISSIONERS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF

                    MENTAL HYGIENE TO DESIGN AND IMPLEMENT TIME-LIMITED DEMONSTRATION

                    PROGRAMS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART AA); TO AMEND

                    PART L OF CHAPTER 59 OF THE LAWS OF 2016, AMENDING THE MENTAL

                    HYGIENE LAW RELATING TO THE APPOINTMENT OF TEMPORARY OPERATORS FOR

                    THE CONTINUED OPERATION OF PROGRAMS AND THE PROVISION OF SERVICES FOR

                    PERSONS WITH SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS AND/OR DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES

                    AND/OR CHEMICAL DEPENDENCE, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF

                    (PART BB); TO AMEND PART A OF CHAPTER 56 OF THE LAWS OF 2013,

                    AMENDING THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO ENACTING

                    THE MAJOR COMPONENTS OF LEGISLATION NECESSARY TO IMPLEMENT THE HEALTH

                    AND MENTAL HYGIENE BUDGET FOR THE 2013-2014 STATE FISCAL YEAR, IN

                    RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS THEREOF (PART CC); TO

                    AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO ADDING HOMELESS YOUTH TO THE DEFINITION OF MINORS FOR THE

                                         219



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PURPOSE OF CONSENT FOR CERTAIN TREATMENT (PART DD); TO AMEND THE

                    MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO INVOLUNTARY ADMISSION AND ASSISTED

                    OUTPATIENT TREATMENT AND ESTABLISHING THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CRISIS

                    TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE CENTER; AND TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, THE

                    GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW, AND THE COUNTY LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRED

                    TRAINING AND MAINTAINING OF RECORDS RELATING TO PERSONS DEALING WITH

                    MENTAL HEALTH AND SUBSTANCE USE CRISES (PART EE); IN RELATION TO

                    ESTABLISHING A TARGETED INFLATIONARY INCREASE FOR DESIGNATED PROGRAMS

                    (PART FF); TO AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO MENTAL

                    HEALTH INCIDENT REVIEW PANELS (PART GG); TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING PROVISIONS OF LAW RELATING TO

                    SCHOOL-BASED HEALTH CENTERS (PART HHS); TO AMEND THE MENTAL

                    HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING ANY NEW YORK SUBDIVISION THAT

                    DIRECTLY RECEIVED FUNDS PURSUANT TO A STATEWIDE OPIOID SETTLEMENT

                    AGREEMENT TO POST AND SUBMIT TO THE OFFICE OF ADDICTION SERVICES AND

                    SUPPORTS CERTAIN INFORMATION RELATING TO SUCH FUNDS (PART II); TO

                    AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO REPORTING PREGNANCY

                    LOSSES AND CLARIFYING WHICH AGENCIES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SUCH REPORTS;

                    AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION

                    THEREOF (PART JJ); TO AMEND CHAPTER 55 OF THE LAWS OF 2022, AMENDING

                    THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW AND THE TOWN LAW RELATING TO AUTHORIZING

                    FEES AND CHARGES FOR EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, IN RELATION TO THE

                    EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART KK); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO THE NASSAU HEALTH CARE CORPORATION (PART CLL); AND TO

                    AMEND CHAPTER 517 OF THE LAWS OF 2016, AMENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH

                                         220



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    LAW RELATING TO PAYMENTS FROM THE NEW YORK STATE MEDICAL

                    INDEMNITY FUND, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART MM)

                    AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE WATERFRONT

                    COMMISSION ACT (PART A); TO AMEND PART I OF CHAPTER 413 OF THE LAWS

                    OF 1999 RELATING TO PROVIDING FOR MASS TRANSPORTATION PAYMENTS IN

                    RELATION TO THE AMOUNT OF PAYMENTS IN THE CENTRAL NEW YORK REGIONAL

                    TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT AND ADDING CORTLAND COUNTY TO SUCH DISTRICT

                    (PART B); TO AMEND CHAPTER 368 OF THE LAWS OF 2019 AMENDING THE

                    VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND STATE FINANCE LAW RELATING TO

                    ESTABLISHING A PRE-LICENSING COURSE INTERNET PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO

                    EXTENDING THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART C); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND

                    TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO ABANDONED VEHICLES (PART D); TO AMEND THE

                    VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO EXPANDING THE DEFINITION OF

                    WHAT CONSTITUTES DRUGGED IMPAIRED DRIVING, PENALIZING REFUSALS TO

                    SUBMIT TO PRELIMINARY SCREENING TESTS, AUTHORIZING PROMPT LICENSE

                    SUSPENSIONS FOR DRUGGED DRIVING ARRESTS AND EXPANDING SITUATIONS IN

                    WHICH CHEMICAL TESTS CAN BE COMPELLED (PART E); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE

                    AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO IMPROVING SAFETY AT ELEMENTARY SCHOOL

                    INTERSECTIONS (PART F); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO BICYCLES WITH ELECTRIC ASSIST (PART G); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE

                    AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO MAXIMUM SPEED LIMITS FOR BICYCLES,

                    BICYCLES WITH ELECTRIC ASSIST, ELECTRONIC SCOOTERS AND OTHER DEVICES

                    AUTHORIZED OR REQUIRED TO USE BICYCLE LANES (PART H); TO AMEND PART PP

                    OF CHAPTER 54 OF THE LAWS OF 2016, AMENDING THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES

                    LAW AND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW RELATING TO THE NEW YORK TRANSIT

                                         221



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    AUTHORITY AND THE METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY, IN RELATION

                    TO EXTENDING PROVISIONS OF LAW RELATING TO CERTAIN TAX INCREMENT

                    FINANCING PROVISIONS (PART I); TO AMEND CHAPTER 929 OF THE LAWS OF

                    1986 AMENDING THE TAX LAW AND OTHER LAWS RELATING TO THE

                    METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS THEREOF APPLICABLE TO THE RESOLUTION OF LABOR DISPUTES (PART

                    J); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO ACQUISITIONS OR

                    TRANSFERS OF PROPERTY FOR CERTAIN TRANSIT PROJECTS; AND TO AMEND PART

                    VVV OF CHAPTER 58 OF THE LAWS OF 2020 AMENDING THE PUBLIC

                    AUTHORITIES LAW RELATING TO ACQUISITIONS OR TRANSFERS OF PROPERTY FOR

                    TRANSIT PROJECTS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART K); TO

                    AMEND PART UUU OF CHAPTER 58 OF THE LAWS OF 2020 AMENDING THE

                    STATE FINANCE LAW RELATING TO PROVIDING FUNDING FOR THE METROPOLITAN

                    TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY 2020-2024 CAPITAL PROGRAM AND PARATRANSIT

                    OPERATING EXPENSES, IN RELATION TO FUNDING FOR NET PARATRANSIT OPERATING

                    EXPENSES AND IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART L); TO AMEND

                    THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING FUNDING FOR THE

                    METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY 2025-2029 CAPITAL PROGRAM

                    (PART M); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND THE PUBLIC

                    OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING COVERED AGENCIES AND

                    AUTHORITIES TO USE WEIGH-IN-MOTION TECHNOLOGY TO AUTOMATICALLY

                    ENFORCE VEHICLE WEIGHT LIMITS ON THEIR FACILITIES (PART N); TO AMEND THE

                    VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO BUS OPERATION-RELATED TRAFFIC

                    REGULATIONS (PART O); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND THE

                    ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO THE

                                         222



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    AUTHORIZATION OF A SURCHARGE FOR THE ISSUANCE OF PERMITS RELATING TO THE

                    OBSTRUCTION OR CLOSURE OF A STREET OR PEDESTRIAN PLAZA FOR CONSTRUCTION

                    PURPOSES IN A CITY HAVING A POPULATION OF ONE MILLION OR MORE AND TO

                    THE IMPOSITION OF SUCH SURCHARGE (PART P); TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND

                    TRAFFIC LAW AND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION TO THE SPEED

                    VIOLATION PHOTO MONITORING SYSTEMS PROGRAM IN WORK ZONES INCLUDING

                    AUTHORIZING A PHOTO MONITORING PROGRAM FOR THE TRIBOROUGH BRIDGE

                    AND TUNNEL AUTHORITY AND NEW YORK STATE BRIDGE AUTHORITY; TO

                    AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A WORK ZONE

                    SPEED CAMERA ADMINISTRATION FUND; AND TO AMEND CHAPTER 421 OF THE

                    LAWS OF 2021 AMENDING THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW AND THE GENERAL

                    MUNICIPAL LAW RELATING TO CERTAIN NOTICES OF LIABILITY, IN RELATION TO

                    EXTENDING SUCH PROVISIONS (PART Q); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART R); TO

                    AMEND CHAPTER 495 OF THE LAWS OF 2004, AMENDING THE INSURANCE LAW

                    AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW RELATING TO THE NEW YORK STATE HEALTH

                    INSURANCE CONTINUATION ASSISTANCE DEMONSTRATION PROJECT, IN RELATION

                    TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART S); TO AMEND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE OLYMPIC REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT

                    AUTHORITY TO ENTER INTO AGREEMENTS FOR MEMBERSHIP OF ONE OR MORE OF

                    ITS SKI VENUES IN RECIPROCAL SKI PASS PROGRAMS WHERE SUCH MEMBERS ARE

                    REQUIRED TO GUARANTEE CONTRACTUAL INDEMNITY UP TO A CAPPED AMOUNT

                    (PART T); TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO ARTIFICIAL

                    INTELLIGENCE COMPANION MODELS (PART U); TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO REFUND POLICIES (PART V); TO AMEND THE

                    GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTOMATIC RENEWALS (PART W); TO

                                         223



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING DISCLOSURE OF

                    ALGORITHMICALLY SET PRICES (PART X); TO AMEND THE BANKING LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO THE REGULATION OF BUY-NOW-PAY-LATER LENDERS (PART Y); TO

                    AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO DISCLOSURE OF PHARMACY

                    BENEFIT MANAGER REBATE CONTRACTS (PART Z); TO AMEND THE GENERAL

                    BUSINESS LAW, THE BANKING LAW, AND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO PROTECTING ELIGIBLE ADULTS FROM FINANCIAL EXPLOITATION (PART

                    AA); TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO FOR HIRE GROUP

                    INSURANCE (PART BB); TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO FOR

                    HIRE MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE RATES (PART CC); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED

                    (PART DD); TO AMEND THE NEW YORK STATE URBAN DEVELOPMENT

                    CORPORATION ACT, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE AUTHORITY OF THE NEW

                    YORK STATE URBAN DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION TO ADMINISTER THE EMPIRE

                    STATE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FUND (PART EE); TO AMEND CHAPTER 393

                    OF THE LAWS OF 1994, AMENDING THE NEW YORK STATE URBAN

                    DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION ACT, RELATING TO THE POWERS OF THE NEW

                    YORK STATE URBAN DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION TO MAKE LOANS, IN RELATION

                    TO EXTENDING LOAN POWERS (PART FF); TO AMEND PART BB OF CHAPTER 58

                    OF THE LAWS OF 2012, AMENDING THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, RELATING TO

                    AUTHORIZING THE DORMITORY AUTHORITY TO ENTER INTO CERTAIN DESIGN AND

                    CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT AGREEMENTS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS

                    THEREOF (PART GG); INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART HH); INTENTIONALLY

                    OMITTED (PART II):  INTENTIONALLY OMITTED (PART JJ); TO AMEND CHAPTER

                    261 OF THE LAWS OF 1988, AMENDING THE STATE FINANCE LAW AND OTHER

                    LAWS RELATING TO THE NEW YORK STATE INFRASTRUCTURE TRUST FUND, IN

                                         224



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART KK); TO AMEND THE STATE

                    FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE EXCELSIOR LINKED DEPOSIT PROGRAM

                    (PART LL); TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW AND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES

                    LAW, IN RELATION TO PURCHASING THRESHOLDS (PART MM); TO AMEND THE

                    INSURANCE LAW, THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW AND THE TAX LAW, IN

                    RELATION TO AUTHORIZING CERTAIN NEW YORK STATE AND LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO

                    CREATE A PURE OR GROUP CAPTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY (PART NN); TO

                    AMEND THE AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW, IN RELATION TO FARMLAND

                    PROTECTION (PART OO); TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW,

                    IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE WASTE TIRE MANAGEMENT FEE FOR FIVE YEARS

                    AND REMOVING THE EXCLUSION FOR MAIL ORDER SALES (PART PP); TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 55 OF THE LAWS OF 2021 AMENDING THE ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION LAW RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A DEER HUNTING PILOT

                    PROGRAM, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING PROVISIONS OF THE YOUTH DEER HUNTING

                    PROGRAM (PART QQ); TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW,

                    THE STATE FINANCE LAW AND THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    THE INACTIVE HAZARDOUS WASTE DISPOSAL SITE PROGRAM (PART RR); TO

                    AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING THE SALE

                    AND MANUFACTURING OF FIREFIGHTING PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT

                    CONTAINING INTENTIONALLY ADDED PFAS (PART SS); TO AMEND THE

                    ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING

                    THE COMMISSIONER OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION TO ACQUIRE

                    CONSERVATION EASEMENTS WITHOUT ATTORNEY GENERAL APPROVAL (SUBPART

                    A); AND TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO EXEMPTIONS FOR ANY

                    NOT-FOR-PROFIT TAX EXEMPT CORPORATION OPERATED FOR CONSERVATION,

                                         225



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ENVIRONMENTAL, PARKS OR HISTORIC PRESERVATION PURPOSES (SUBPART B)

                    (PART TT); TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO THE MANAGEMENT OF CRABS (PART UU); IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE

                    NEW YORK STATE ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY TO

                    FINANCE A PORTION OF ITS RESEARCH, DEVELOPMENT AND DEMONSTRATION,

                    POLICY AND PLANNING, AND FUEL NY PROGRAM, AS WELL AS CLIMATE CHANGE

                    RELATED EXPENSES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION

                    FROM AN ASSESSMENT ON GAS AND ELECTRIC CORPORATIONS (PART VV); TO

                    AMEND ABANDONED PROPERTY LAW, IN RELATION TO ENSURING ESCOS ARE

                    SUBJECT TO THE SAME CONSUMER PROTECTION REGULATIONS REGARDING

                    UNCLAIMED DEPOSITS AND REFUNDS CURRENTLY FACING UTILITY COMPANIES

                    (PART WW); TO AUTHORIZE UTILITY AND CABLE TELEVISION ASSESSMENT

                    REVENUES AND TO THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS,

                    DEPARTMENT OF STATE, THE OFFICE OF PARKS, RECREATION AND

                    HISTORIC PRESERVATION, AND THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION FROM UTILITY ASSESSMENT REVENUES; REQUIRES ACCOUNTINGS

                    BE SUBMITTED OF SUCH FUNDS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH

                    PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF (PART XX); TO AMEND THE

                    GENERAL BUSINESS LAW AND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO

                    INCREASING AND REDIRECTING CIVIL PENALTIES FOR FAILING TO COMPLY WITH

                    THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE'S PRESCRIBED RULES AND REGULATIONS

                    ESTABLISHED FOR THE PROTECTION OF UNDERGROUND FACILITIES; AND TO AMEND

                    CHAPTER 522 OF THE LAWS OF 2000, AMENDING THE STATE FINANCE LAW

                    AND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW RELATING TO ESTABLISHING THE

                    UNDERGROUND FACILITIES SAFETY TRAINING ACCOUNT, IN RELATION TO THE

                                         226



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF (PART YY); AND TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO AUTHORIZING THE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION AND FINANCE TO DISCLOSE

                    CERTAIN INFORMATION TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION

                    OR THE NEW YORK STATE ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY

                    FOR THE PURPOSE OF IMPLEMENTING THE NEW YORK STATE CLIMATE

                    LEADERSHIP AND COMMUNITY PROTECTION ACT (PART ZZ); INTENTIONALLY

                    OMITTED (PART AAA); IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A COMMISSION TO

                    ENSURE THE REPLACEMENT OF THE STATUE OF ROBERT R. LIVINGSTON IN THE

                    NATIONAL STATUARY HALL OF THE UNITED STATES CAPITOL WITH A STATUE OF

                    HARRIET TUBMAN (PART BBB); TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL

                    CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING CERTAIN REBATES FOR CLEAN

                    VEHICLE PROJECTS (PART CCC); TO AMEND THE CANNABIS LAW, IN RELATION

                    TO APPOINTMENTS TO THE CANNABIS CONTROL BOARD AND AGREEMENTS OF

                    SUCH BOARD WITH THE NEW YORK STATE INDIAN NATIONS AND TRIBES (PART

                    DDD); AND TO AMEND THE CANNABIS LAW, IN RELATION TO A SPECIAL LICENSE

                    FEE; TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO MAKING A

                    CONFORMING TECHNICAL CHANGE; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN

                    PROVISIONS UPON THE EXPIRATION THEREOF (PART EEE).

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE

                    IS AT THE DESK.

                                 THE CLERK WILL READ.

                                 THE CLERK:  I HEREBY CERTIFY TO AN IMMEDIATE VOTE,

                    KATHY HOCHUL, GOVERNOR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  AN EXPLANATION HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED.

                                         227



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS BILL WOULD ENACT INTO LAW

                    MAJOR COMPONENTS OF LEGISLATION THAT IS NECESSARY TO IMPLEMENT THE

                    STATE FISCAL YEAR 2025 THROUGH 2026 BUDGETS AS IT PERTAINS TO THE HEALTH

                    AND MENTAL HYGIENE BUDGET.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. JENSEN.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.

                                 WILL CHAIRMAN PRETLOW YIELD FOR A CORNUCOPIA OF

                    QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ABSOLUTELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ONE OF THOSE SAT WORDS, OKAY.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  THANK -- THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

                    CHAIRMAN.

                                 THIS BUDGET BILL INTRODUCES THE FIRST MAJOR REFORMS TO

                    MEDICAID, WHICH IS ONE OF THE STATE'S LARGEST BUDGET ITEMS, AND MUCH

                    OF THE DETAILED INFORMATION REGARDING THIS MEDICAID FUNDING IS NOT

                    EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE BILL TEXT.

                                 PRIOR TO TAKING UP THIS BILL, HAVE WE SEEN OR FINALIZED

                    THE FINANCIAL PLAN OR MEDICAID SCORECARD THAT'S PUBLICLY AVAILABLE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AS I STATED EARLIER, WE'RE STILL

                    WORKING ON THE FINALIZED FINANCIAL PLAN, BUT WE HAVE SOME IDEA AS TO

                                         228



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHAT IT WOULD REPRESENT.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  THE ENACTED BUDGET WILL

                    INCLUDE SIGNIFICANT LEGISLATIVE CHANGES TO MEDICAID, INCLUDING THE

                    MEDICAID SAVINGS PROPOSALS BY THE GOVERNOR AND AUTHORIZES ADDITIONAL

                    MEDICAID EXPENDITURES.

                                 DOES THIS BUDGET REMAIN WITHIN THE MEDICAID GLOBAL

                    CAP THAT IS BEING EXTENDED BY THIS BUDGET BILL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, IT DOES.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  THE EXECUTIVE BUDGET

                    FINANCIAL PLAN SHOWED THAT THE STATE WOULD EXCEED THE GLOBAL CAP NEXT

                    YEAR AND EVERY YEAR THEREAFTER AND HAD TO USE GENERAL FUND RESOURCES

                    TO REMAIN UNDER THE CAP THIS FISCAL YEAR.

                                 WHAT DOES THIS BUDGET DO TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE

                    SPENDING WITHIN THE CAP MOVING FORWARD?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'RE USING THE MCO TAX REVENUE

                    TO ENSURE THAT IT STAYS IN THE CAP.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  I'LL GET TO THE MCO IN A

                    MINUTE, BUT I APPRECIATE THAT.

                                 IF WE CONTINUE TO PROPOSE BUDGETS THAT -- WHETHER IN

                    THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL OR IN THE ENACTED BUDGETS THAT EXCEED THE

                    GLOBAL CAP, DON'T YOU THINK IT MIGHT BE TIME THAT WE RETHINK HOW WE

                    CALCULATED CAP ON MEDICAID SPENDING?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE WE JUST RECENTLY CHANGED

                    THE METRIC AS -- HOW WE CALCULATE THE GLOBAL CAP.

                                         229



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  WELL, IF WE HAVE TO CONTINUE --

                    IF WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT WAYS TO OBFUSCATE AND CHANGE THE

                    DEFINITION OF CAP COVERED SPENDING, MAYBE IT MIGHT BE WORTH HAVING A

                    MORE IN DEPTH -- WE'VE HAD TWO MEDICAID REDESIGN TASK FORCE

                    INITIATIVES, BUT MAYBE WE LOOK AT HOW WE PRIORITIZE THE EFFICIENCY AND

                    EFFECTIVENESS OF MEDICAID SPUNDING -- SPENDING MOVING FORWARD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I THINK WE WOULD SUPPORT THAT BUT

                    THEN YOU'RE SUGGESTING WE DO A THIRD?

                                 MR. JENSEN:  I MEAN THE THIRD, SOMETHING NEW.  I'M

                    SURE WE CAN FUND -- FIND A FUN NAME FOR IT.

                                 MOVING ON.  THIS BUDGET BILL AUTHORIZES SEVERAL

                    DISBURSEMENTS UNDER THE MCO TAX THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.  HOWEVER,

                    THE WAIVER AUTHORITY FOR THE MCO TAX IS TEMPORARY.  AND THE FEDERAL

                    ADMINISTRATION THAT'S CURRENTLY IN OFFICE WAS NOT THE ONE THAT APPROVED

                    THE WAIVER.  AND HAS SIGNALED A DESIRE TO NOT RENEW THESE TYPES OF

                    FUNDING MECHANISMS.

                                 IS IT TRUE THAT IF THE STATE DOES NOT RECEIVE A NEW

                    WAIVER FOR THIS TAX WHEN IT EXPIRES, THAT WE WILL HAVE TO FIND A NEW

                    MECHANISM TO GET $3.7 BILLION TO OUR PROVIDERS, OR POTENTIALLY LOOK AT

                    REDUCING REIMBURSEMENT RATES AND FUNDING AVAILABLE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THE MCO TAX IS NOT

                    TEMPORARY.  IT'S -- IT'S --

                                 MR. JENSEN:  WELL, IT'S TEMPORARY FOR THREE YEARS.

                    IT'S NOT -- WE HAVE TO REAPPLY EVERY THREE YEARS FOR --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, WE'RE JUST -- WE'RE -- WE'RE JUST

                                         230



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ENTERING IN OUR BOOKS FOR THREE YEARS, BUT IT'S NOT SET FOR THREE YEARS.

                    WE JUST -- WHEN WE DO OUR -- OUR LEGISLATIVE -- OUR BOOKS, WE ONLY

                    BOOK IT FOR THREE YEARS.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  THE MCO PART OF THIS BILL

                    INCLUDES FURTHER COMMITMENTS TO HELP FUND OUR NURSING HOMES AND

                    HOSPITALS FOR 2026.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  WHAT GUARANTEE DOES THE STATE HAVE

                    THIS FUNDING WILL BE AVAILABLE FROM THE MCO TAX, AND WOULD THE STATE

                    HAVE TO BACKFILL THIS COMMITMENT WITH OTHER FUNDS IF NOT AVAILABLE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, WE HAVE THE FAITH IN OUR

                    UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT TO CONTINUE ITS PROMISE THAT IT HAS BEEN

                    DOING AND CONTINUE TO FUND THIS.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BUT WE HAVE ENOUGH CASH TO GET US

                    THROUGH DECEMBER, ANYWAY.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  SO WE HAVE ENOUGH CASH ON

                    HAND TO SATISFY THE BUDGET PROMISES THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THIS...

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  WITH THE MONEY THAT'S BEING

                    ALLOCATED TO PROVIDERS USING THE MCO TAX REVENUE, IS THAT GOING TO BE

                    DONE ON A LUMP SUM METHOD OR WILL THAT BE REIMBURSEMENT RATES UP TO

                    A TOTAL AMOUNT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE'S -- THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS

                    THAT EACH OF THESE ALLOCATIONS ARE DISBURSED, SO THEY'RE NOT ALL THE SAME.

                                         231



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SO I CAN'T REALLY ANSWER THE QUESTION WITH ONE ANSWER.  EACH OF THE

                    INDIVIDUAL COMPONENT, WHETHER IT'S HOSPITALS, NURSING HOMES, MANAGED

                    CARE POOLS, THEY'RE ALL ALLOCATED DIFFERENT -- USING A DIFFERENT

                    METHODOLOGY.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  AND IS THAT GOING TO BE

                    AVAILABLE IN THE SCORECARD OR FINANCIAL PLAN WHEN THAT'S PUBLISHED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  HOW THEY'RE BEING ALLOCATED OR

                    WHAT THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF THE ALLOCATIONS ARE?

                                 MR. JENSEN:  BOTH.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I HAVE THE TOTAL AMOUNTS IN

                    FRONT OF ME AND THE ALLOCATION WILL PROBABLY BE PUBLIC AT SOME POINT.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  MEDICAID ENROLLMENT

                    CONTINUES TO BE A CHALLENGE WITHIN THE STATE MEDICAID BUDGET.  AND AS

                    WE SEE UNCERTAINTY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BOTH AT THE

                    ADMINISTRATION LEVEL AND THE CONGRESSIONAL LEVEL, THAT THERE COULD BE

                    CHANGES TO THE WAY MEDICAID SUPPORT IS CALCULATED FOR THE STATES.

                                 IS THERE ANY LANGUAGE IN THIS BUDGET BILL THAT PROVIDES

                    FOR PROVISIONS THAT WOULD ASSIST THE LOW INCOME INDIVIDUALS IN OUR

                    STATE AND OTHER MEMBERS OF OUR STATE WHO RELY ON THIS CRITICALLY

                    IMPORTANT SOCIAL SAFETY NET FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE NEEDS, AS WELL AS

                    HELPING INDIVIDUALS THAT MAY NO LONGER BE ELIGIBLE TRANSITION TO

                    COMMERCIALLY-AVAILABLE INSURANCE PLANS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I THINK IN ANSWERING YOUR

                    QUESTION WE KNOW THAT THE BUDGET DIRECTOR HAS THE AUTHORITY AND THE

                    ABILITY TO MAKE CHANGES AND ADJUSTMENTS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR BASED ON

                                         232



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE FINANCIAL PLAN WHEN WE -- WHEN WE FINALLY PASS IT.  AS LONG AS HE

                    OPERATES WITHIN THE CONSTRAINTS OF THAT PLAN WE SHOULD BE OKAY.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  THERE -- THERE HAS BEEN RUMORS AND

                    IT'S BEEN REPORTED IN THE PRESS THAT IF THERE ARE -- UPON PASSAGE OF A

                    FEDERAL BUDGET THERE ARE CHANGES THAT WOULD IMPACT OUR BUDGET PLAN

                    THAT'S BEING PASSED THIS WEEK.  WOULD WE LOOK AS A CO-EQUAL BRANCH OF

                    GOVERNMENT TO HAVE A SAY IN ANY SORT OF CHANGES FOR MEDICAID

                    ALLOCATIONS OR WOULD THIS BODY BE IN THE -- THE BODY IN THE OTHER PLACE

                    BE COMPLETELY CONTENT WITH DEFERRING ALL AUTHORITY TO THE BUDGET

                    DIRECTOR TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL -- WELL, TO DATE THERE HAVE NOT

                    BEEN ANY CHANGES AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO OUR BUDGET BASED ON

                    RUMOR.  IF WHAT'S BEING DISCUSSED OR WHAT'S BEING RUMORED AS TO THE

                    POTENTIAL CHANGES TO THE MEDICAID DISBURSEMENTS FOR THE STATES, I'M

                    DEPENDING ON OUR GOOD FRIENDS IN THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS TO STOP

                    THAT FROM HAPPENING.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  PIVOTING TO HEALTH PLAN PENALTY

                    AUTHORITY, THIS BUDGET BILL CONTAINS PROVISIONS THAT AUTHORIZES THE

                    HEALTH COMMISSIONER TO PENALIZE MANAGED CARE PLANS FOR FAILURE TO

                    MEET CONTRACT OBLIGATIONS AND PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.

                                 DOESN'T THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH ALREADY HAVE THE

                    AUTHORITY TO LEVEL PENALTIES AGAINST THE PLANS THROUGH THE MODEL

                    CONTRACT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, THEY DO.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  WELL, IF THE DOH ALREADY HAS

                                         233



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THIS AUTHORITY, THEN WHAT IS THE THOUGHT PROCESS OR THE PURPOSE ON

                    INCREASING THE PENALTIES VIA STATUTE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  PEOPLE HAVE BEEN VIOLATING THE

                    MODEL CONTRACT AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE TRYING TO ENHANCE IT.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  SO IS THE BELIEF THAT THE HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER HAS NOT BEEN FULFILLING THE DUTIES OF THEIR OFFICE IN

                    APPROPRIATELY RECOGNIZING THOSE VIOLATIONS, HENCE THE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO. THIS ISN'T ON THE HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER.  IT'S ON THE LARGE CORPORATIONS WHO ARE OPERATING WITHIN

                    THE STATE THAT ARE GOING AGAINST THE RULES.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  YES, BUT IF THE -- IF THE HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER ALREADY HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DO THIS, THEN WHY ARE WE

                    ENHANCING IT IF HE ALREADY HAS THE ABILITY?  IS HE NOT DOING IT?  IS THAT --

                    IS THAT WHY WE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, NO. HE IS DOING --

                                 MR. JENSEN: -- (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK) PUT INTO

                    LAW?

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- IT BUT PEOPLE ARE STILL VIOLATING.

                    THEY'RE STILL CONTINUING TO VIOLATE IT.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS BILL

                    THAT REQUIRED THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT TO PROVE THAT THERE WAS A CONTRACT

                    VIOLATION BEFORE THEY LEVIED PENALTIES?  IS THERE A DUE PROCESS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  YES?  WHAT IS THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  PROVIDING NOTICE AND -- AND

                                         234



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OPPORTUNITY.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE NOTICE

                    --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO CORRECT IT,

                    I SHOULD SAY.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  MOVING ON TO EVERYBODY'S

                    FAVORITE TOPIC, THE CONSUMER DIRECTED PERSONAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

                    WE'VE SEEN CONSUMERS AND AIDES THAT ARE ENROLLED OR HAVE BEEN

                    PREVIOUSLY ENROLLED IN THE CDPAP PROGRAM HAVE RUN INTO A LITANY OF

                    ISSUES WITH THE TRANSITION TO A STATEWIDE FISCAL INTERMEDIARY VARYING

                    FROM ENROLLMENT ISSUES TO PAYMENT ISSUES.  AND THERE HAS BEEN

                    BIPARTISAN CALLS FOR A DELAY IN THE TRANSITION, EVEN THOUGH WE'VE ALREADY

                    PASSED THAT TRANSITION DATE.

                                 DOES THIS BUDGET INCLUDE ANY SORT OF DELAY TO THE

                    TRANSITION OR PROVISIONS THAT HOLD A FISCAL -- THE STATEWIDE FISCAL

                    INTERMEDIARY ACCOUNTABLE FOR FAILURES TO FULFILL THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT WE

                    PASSED IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS BILL DOES NOT MAKE ANY

                    CHANGES TO THE CDPAP NOR TRANSITION TO A SINGLE FISCAL INTERMEDIARY.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  SO THERE ARE NO PROVISIONS THAT WOULD

                    PUT GUARDRAILS IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT SERVICES FOR CURRENT AND FUTURE

                    CONSUMERS AND AIDES WON'T BE IN JEOPARDY DUE TO THE ISSUES WITH THE

                    TRANSITION TO A STATEWIDE FISCAL INTERMEDIARY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, NOT AT THIS POINT BUT ALL --

                    THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE TRANSITIONING INTO THE SINGLE FISCAL INTERMEDIARY.

                                         235



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  SO NOT -- NOT -- NOT IN THIS

                    BUDGET BILL AND WE DON'T -- DO WE FORESEE SOMETHING HAPPENING AT

                    SOME POINT IN THIS SESSION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 MOVING TO THE TARGETED INFLATIONARY INCREASE.  THIS

                    BUDGET PROPOSAL AND BUDGET BILL INCLUDES A 2.6 PERCENT TARGETED

                    INFLATIONARY INCREASE.  HOWEVER, MANY STAKEHOLDERS WERE REQUESTING A

                    -- A 7.8 PERCENT INCREASE.

                                 DOES THE 2.6 PERCENT REFLECT AN ACTUAL RATE OF INFLATION

                    FOR THE COST THAT THESE PROGRAMS INCUR?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, IT DOESN'T, BUT I'M TOLD THAT

                    EVERY 1 PERCENT EQUATES TO $100 MILLION AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT AMOUNT

                    OF CASH.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  SO I GUESS, LITTLE SNARKY, WHY

                    WOULD THIS BE CALLED A TARGETED INFLATIONARY INCREASE IF IT DOESN'T KEEP

                    UP WITH THE RATE OF INFLATION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT WASN'T -- IT WASN'T OUR CHOICE TO

                    NAME IT THAT.  THAT'S --

                                 MR. JENSEN:  WHAT WAS THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT WASN'T OUR CHOICE TO NAME IT THAT.

                    THAT'S WHAT WE WERE GIVEN.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  I THINK YOU AND I COULD PROBABLY

                    COME UP WITH --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  A BETTER NAME?  MORE THAN LIKELY.

                                         236



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. JENSEN:  WELL, YOU KNOW, WE COULD GET A TASK

                    FORCE TOGETHER.  I KNOW THE GOVERNOR'S A BIG FAN OF TASK FOR -- TASK

                    FORCE AS WE COULD WORK ON THAT MAYBE AFTER BUDGET TO COME UP WITH A

                    BETTER NAME FOR IT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'LL LOOK INTO THAT.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  PERFECT.  I APPRECIATE THAT, CHAIRMAN.

                                 IF THIS INCREASE DOESN'T FULLY FUND THE TOTAL RATE OF

                    INFLATION, COULD THIS POTENTIALLY MAKE THESE PROGRAMS LAGGING BEHIND

                    INFLATION GOING INTO FUTURE YEARS MAKING THE BURDEN ON FUTURE BUDGETS

                    EVEN MORE PRONOUNCED?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YEAH, BUT THAT IS POSSIBLE BUT WE

                    PROBABLY WOULDN'T DO THAT.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.

                                 GOING ON TO EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES.  THE BUDGET

                    BILL ADMITS PROVISIONS THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED COUNTIES TO CREATE

                    SPECIAL DISTRICTS TO RAISE REVENUE FOR EMS SERVICES, WHICH WAS

                    SUPPORTED BY COUNTIES.  THAT PROPOSAL ALSO INCLUDED ONEROUS REPORTING

                    AND ASSESSMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR THE EMS PROVIDERS.  IS AUTHORIZING

                    SPECIAL DISTRICTS FOR EMS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE OUTSIDE THE

                    BUDGET, AND COULD THIS BE DONE WITHOUT INCLUDING ADDITIONAL

                    BURDENSOME REQUIREMENTS FOR OUR REGIONAL EMS INFRASTRUCTURE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE COULDN'T COME TO AN AGREEMENT

                    ON HOW TO ACTUALLY HANDLE THIS.  EACH OF THE PARTIES HAD THEIR OWN IDEAS

                    HOW TO DO THIS, SO WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO -- TO HASH THIS OUT

                    PROBABLY OUTSIDE OF THE BUDGET.

                                         237



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  AND THEN INVOLUNTARY

                    COMMITMENTS IN KENDRA'S LAW, THIS BUDGET BILL INCLUDES AN EXPANSION

                    OF MENTAL HYGIENE LAW IN REGARDS TO INVOLUNTARY COMMITMENT AND

                    KENDRA'S LAW.

                                 AM I CORRECT IN BELIEVING THAT THE INTENT OF THIS

                    LEGISLATION IS TO ENSURE THAT INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE IN NEED OF MENTAL

                    HEALTHCARE WILL BE BETTER ABLE TO CONNECT TO SERVICES AND RECEIVE A

                    STRONGER CONTINUITY OF CARE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS ABSOLUTELY THE GOAL.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  IS THERE A MECHANISM TO ALLOW

                    FOR A LOOKBACK AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THE DESIRED

                    RESULTS ARE OCCURRING BASED ON THE VIEWPOINTS OF STAKEHOLDERS WHO ARE

                    INVOLVED IN THE NEGOTIATION ON THIS LANGUAGE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THERE'S NO SUNSET IN THIS BUT

                    I'M SURE PRETTY SURE THAT IT WILL BE FOLLOWED CLOSELY BY THE EXECUTIVE.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  AND THEN FINALLY THIS BUDGET

                    BILL INCLUDES PROVISIONS THAT WOULD REQUIRE THE UTILIZATION OF MENTAL

                    HEALTH INCIDENT REVIEW PANELS.  WHAT ARE THE INTENT OF THESE PANELS?

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEIR PURPOSE IS GOING TO BE TO

                    REVIEW INCIDENCES WHERE DEADLY FORCE HAS BEEN USED AND TO MAKE SURE

                    THAT BEST PRACTICES ARE BEING UTILIZED.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  SO IN ADDITION TO -- TO THAT

                    PURPOSE, WOULD THEY ALSO REVIEW INCIDENCES REGARDING INTERACTIONS

                    WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT TO REVIEW GAPS IN THE SERVICE CONTINUUM THAT

                                         238



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    COULD LEAD TO AN ESCALATION OF INCIDENTS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  OKAY.  WITH SEXUAL ASSAULT FORENSIC

                    EXAMINERS, IS THERE A TIMELINE FOR DOH TO DEVELOP THE REGS AND AN

                    EFFECTIVE DATE FOR THE ROLLOUT OF THESE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  TWO YEARS.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  TWO YEARS?  OKAY.

                                 AND THEN IN THE BUDGET BILL THERE'S AN EXTENSION OF THE

                    HEALTHCARE FACILITY TRANSFORMATION ROUNDS, THREE AND FOUR.  AM I CORRECT

                    IN NOT SEEING ANY NEW ROUNDS OF THE HEALTHCARE FACILITY TRANSFORMATION

                    PROGRAMS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE AREN'T ANY NEW ROUNDS IN

                    THIS BUDGET PROPOSAL.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  WILL WE SEE ANY NEW CAPITAL DOLLARS

                    FOR ROUNDS THREE OR FOUR IN FUTURE BUDGET BILLS OR A NEW INFLUX OF CAPITAL

                    DOLLARS FOR HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS FOR CAPITAL --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I -- I REALLY CAN'T MAKE ANY

                    ASSUMPTION AS TO WHAT A FUTURE BUDGET PROPOSAL WOULD BE.

                                 MR. JENSEN:  YEAH, I MEAN, MR. CHAIRMAN, IT COULD

                    JUST BE BETWEEN US.  I WON'T TELL ANYBODY ELSE IF YOU JUST WANT TO WINK

                    -- WINK AT ME, DON'T SAY ANYTHING IF WE CAN EXPECT IT.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.  THANK YOU,

                    MR. CHAIRMAN.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                         239



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL CHAIR

                    PRETLOW YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. RA:  I'M TRYING A LITTLE MISDIRECTION ON YOU

                    THERE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'VE NOTICED THAT.

                                 MR. RA:  MR. JENSEN LEADOFF.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  MR. JENSEN LEADING OFF. DOES HE

                    TAKE YOUR SECOND 15 OR DO YOU TAKE IT?

                                 MR. RA:  NO, HE IS NOT.  I WILL BE RESERVING IT FOR

                    MYSELF.

                                 SO I WANT TO FOCUS ON PART LL, OF THE HOSTILE TAKEOVER

                    BY NEW YORK STATE OF NASSAU UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER AND THE

                    NASSAU HEALTH CARE CORPORATION.

                                 SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CONCERNS WITH REGARD TO THIS

                    AND CHANGES THAT ARE BEING MADE TO THE BOARD EFFECTIVELY GIVING NEW

                    YORK STATE, REALLY, THE GOVERNOR CONTROL OF -- OF -- OF THE BOARD.  SO

                    LET'S -- LET'S START THERE.  MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE'RE TAKING A WHAT IS

                    NOW A 15 MEMBER BOARD AND REDUCING IT TO 11 MEMBERS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  AND THEN THE GOVERNOR WOULD APPOINT SIX

                                         240



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OUT OF THE 11 MEMBERS, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I THOUGHT IT WAS NINE BUT IS IT SIX?

                    YEAH, SIX.

                                 MR. RA:  SIX, AND ONE -- WELL, TWO OF THOSE

                    APPOINTMENTS WOULD BE AT THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE LEGISLATIVE

                    LEADERS HERE IN ALBANY, THE -- THE MAJORITY LEADER IN THE SENATE AND

                    THE SPEAKER IN THE ASSEMBLY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  AND ARE THERE ANY APPOINTMENTS AT THE

                    RECOMMENDATION OF THE MINORITY LEADER OF THE ASSEMBLY OR THE

                    MINORITY LEADER OF THE SENATE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  AND THEN THE REST OF THE BOARD SEATS

                    ARE MADE UP OF APPOINTMENTS BY THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND THEN THE

                    LEGISLATIVE MAJORITIES AND MINORITIES IN THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  NOW WHY ARE WE GIVING APPOINTMENTS TO

                    THE MINORITY PARTY IN THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE BUT NOT THE MINORITY PARTY

                    HERE IN ALBANY WHERE WE HAVE SEVEN REPUBLICAN ASSEMBLYMEMBERS

                    WHO SERVE THIS COUNTY AND FOUR REPUBLICAN STATE SENATORS THAT SERVE

                    THIS COUNTY WHO WILL HAVE NO APPOINTMENTS, YET THE TWO MAJORITIES

                    WILL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THE

                    COUNTIES.

                                 MR. RA:  WELL, WE --

                                         241



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AND THEY LIVE IN THE COUNTIES AND

                    THEY'RE REPRESENTING AS THE COUNTY AS THEY'RE LIVING IN THE COUNTY.

                                 MR. RA:  I LIVE IN THE COUNTY AS WELL, AND -- AND I

                    THINK WE SHOULD HAVE LOCAL CONTROL OF -- OF THIS HOSPITAL BOARD.

                                 ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WITH REGARD TO THESE BOARD

                    SEATS IS THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE A DIFFERENCE IN THE - AND IT SAYS IN THE

                    BILL - THE INITIAL TERMS OF THESE MEMBERS WHERE WE HAVE - AND CORRECT

                    ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE'S APPOINTMENTS ARE GOING TO

                    SERVE INITIAL TERMS OF TWO YEARS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. RA:  BUT THE GOVERNOR'S APPOINTMENTS SERVE

                    INITIAL TERMS OF FOUR?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CORRECT.

                                 MR. RA:  IS THERE A REASON WHY THERE'S A DIFFERENT

                    LENGTH IN THE TERMS OF THESE INDIVIDUALS DEPENDING ON WHO THEY'RE

                    APPOINTED BY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH THEIR

                    TERMS.  THE GOVERNOR HAS A FOUR-YEAR TERM AND THE COUNTY LEGISLATORS

                    HAVE A TWO-YEAR TERM.

                                 MR. RA:  WELL, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAS A FOUR-YEAR

                    TERM AS WELL.  I'M TALKING ABOUT THE COUNTY LEGISLATORS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.

                                 MR. RA:  THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, THEY BOTH HAVE

                    FOUR-YEAR TERMS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'LL HAVE TO CHECK WITH THE

                                         242



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    EXECUTIVE ON THAT THEN.

                                 MR. RA:  YEAH.  I -- I -- I -- I HAVE -- I HAVE SOME

                    HUNCHES AS TO WHAT THE INTENTION IS OF THE GOVERNOR OVER THE COURSE OF

                    THOSE FOUR YEARS AND I HAVE A HUNCH THAT'S WHY IT'S BEING -- BEING DONE

                    THAT WAY.

                                 NOW EACH OF THE CURRENT 15 BOARD MEMBERS ARE

                    ESSENTIALLY -- THEIR TERMS ARE DEEMED LEGALLY EXPIRED AS OF -- IS IT JUNE

                    1ST?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  JUNE 1ST, I BELIEVE.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  SO NO MATTER WHAT TIME THEY HAD

                    LEFT ON THEIR TERMS THAT BOARD IS EFFECTIVELY DISSOLVES AS OF JUNE 1ST AND

                    WE WILL NOW HAVE THE NEW 11 MEMBER BOARD.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BUT THE DIRECTOR WILL BE STAYING ON

                    OR CAN STAY ON.

                                 MR. RA:  UNTIL THEY PICK A -- A NEW ONE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. RA:  NOW WITH REGARD TO THE BOARD ORGANIZING

                    AND HAVING A BOARD CHAIR AND THEN ULTIMATELY A CO WHO IS RESPONSIBLE

                    FOR -- FOR THE HOSPITAL.  WHO'S GOING TO PICK THE CHAIR OF THE BOARD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE THE BOARD AS A -- AS A

                    GROUP WILL TAKE A VOTE AS TO WHO THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD IS.

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MY BAD.  THE GOVERNOR PICKS THE CHAIR.

                                         243



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. RA:  THE GOVERNOR APPOINTS THE CHAIR.  AND

                    THEN IN TERMS OF THE CO, THE PERSON RUNNING THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS

                    IS APPOINTED BY THE BOARD --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  -- STILL, BUT THE NASSAU INTERIM FINANCE

                    AUTHORITY, NIFA, HAS TO APPROVE SALARY AND BENEFITS FOR THAT

                    INDIVIDUAL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  YOU KNOW, AND I WOULD NOTE FOR MY

                    COLLEAGUES WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH -- WITH NASSAU COUNTY OR NIFA,

                    NIFA IS ANOTHER ENTITY THAT HAS SEVEN DIRECTORS, ALL OF WHOM ARE

                    APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR, SOME IN CONSULTATION WITH THE MAJORITY

                    LEADER AND -- AND THE SPEAKER HERE IN ALBANY.  SO YOU MAY NOT

                    CHARACTERIZE THIS AS A TAKEOVER, BUT EFFECTIVELY WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE IS

                    MAKING SURE THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS CONTROL OF THIS ENTITY EVERY WHICH

                    WAY.  AND I WOULD NOTE THAT NIFA HAS OVER THE COURSE OF ITS HISTORY

                    ALWAYS SEEMED TO TREAT REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS DIFFERENTLY THAN

                    DEMOCRATIC ONES.  AND AS THE HOSPITAL WAS TRYING TO VINDICATE THEIR

                    RIGHTS TO SOME FUNDING THAT THEY FEEL THE STATE HAS WITHHELD, NIFA

                    TRIED TO BLOCK THEM FROM DOING SO. SO THAT IS TREMENDOUSLY CONCERNING

                    TO ME.

                                 NOW, NEW YORK STATE EFFECTIVELY HAVING CONTROL OF

                    THIS HOSPITAL, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ASSETS AND -- AND -- AND OTHER

                    THINGS THAT ARE -- ARE POTENTIALLY IMPACTED.  SO ONE OF THE THINGS IS

                    THERE ARE BOND OBLIGATIONS THAT THE HOSPITAL HAS.

                                         244



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 WHAT IS NEW YORK STATE'S ROLE SHOULD THE NASSAU

                    HEALTH CARE CORPORATION DEFAULT ON ITS BOND OBLIGATIONS IN THE FUTURE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THE PURPOSE OF THIS NEW

                    BOARD IS TO REDIRECT THE ACTIVITIES OF MANAGEMENT OF THE HOSPITAL AND

                    ASSIST THEM IN PAYING OFF THESE OVERDUE BONDS, OR THESE DEBTS THAT HAVE

                    BEEN INCURRED OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS.

                                 MR. RA:  BUT IF -- IF -- IF THEY WERE TO DEFAULT ON

                    THESE BONDS, IS NEW YORK STATE TAKING RESPONSIBILITY OR THE TAXPAYERS

                    OF NASSAU COUNTY RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT DOESN'T CHANGE FROM WHAT IT IS

                    RIGHT NOW.  THE LEGISLATION DOESN'T CHANGE THAT AT ALL.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  IF -- IF THE NEW BOARD WERE TO TAKE

                    ON NEW DEBT, IS -- IS THE STATE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT OR THE TAXPAYERS OF

                    NASSAU COUNTY ON -- ON THE HOOK FOR THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  STILL THE SAME.

                                 MR. RA:  ONE OF THE THINGS THE NAS -- THE NASSAU

                    HEALTH CARE CORPORATION DOES IS PROVIDE OTHER SERVICES FOR THE COUNTY,

                    IN PARTICULAR THEY MANAGE THE CORRECTIONAL CENTER HEALTH SERVICES AND

                    HEALTH SERVICE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES.  CAN WE

                    GUARANTEE -- CAN NEW YORK STATE WITH THIS RECONSTITUTED BOARD

                    GUARANTEE THAT NASSAU COUNTY AND OUR COMMUNITY AREN'T GOING TO LOSE

                    ANY OF THOSE SERVICES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THE INTENT OF THIS LEGISLATION

                    IS TO ENSURE THAT THE NASSAU COUNTY MUNICIPAL HEALTH AGENCY CAN

                    CONTINUE TO MANAGE THOSE.  BUT GIVEN THE INDICATIONS AS TO WHAT WAS

                                         245



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    EXPERIENCED IN THE PAST WE DON'T KNOW IF UNDER THE CURRENT BOARD THAT

                    CAN BE DONE.

                                 MR. RA:  AND WITHIN THE AGREEMENT THAT NASSAU

                    HEALTH CARE CORPORATION HAS WITH THE COUNTY, THE STATE PLEDGED NOT TO

                    LIMIT OR IMPAIR THEIR AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNTY UNTIL THE BONDS WERE

                    FULLY SATISFIED.

                                 DOES THIS CHANGE LIMIT OR IMPAIR NASSAU HEALTH CARE

                    COMMUNITY -- NASSAU HEALTH CARE CORPORATION'S AGREEMENT WITH THE

                    COUNTY THAT THEY HAD WITH REGARD TO THE STATE NOT LIMITING OR REPAIRING

                    THEIR AGREEMENT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, IT DOESN'T.

                                 MR. RA:  THERE WAS -- THERE WAS ALSO A PROVISION --

                    THIS IS LINE, I BELIEVE IT'S THE TOP OF PAGE 69, THAT SAYS, ALL CONTRACTS OR

                    OBLIGATIONS ENTERED INTO BY THE CORPORATION FOR OVER $1 MILLION WILL BE

                    SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF THE NASSAU COUNTY INTERIM FINANCE

                    AUTHORITY.  MY UNDERSTANDING IS CURRENTLY IF THE CURRENT BOARD WOULD

                    NEED APPROVAL JUST OVER --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. LAVINE, WHY DO

                    YOU RISE?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  TO QUESTION WHETHER THE SPEAKER WILL

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE SPEAKER

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. RA:  I'D BE HAPPY TO, MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THANK YOU.  SO DO YOU KNOW HOW

                                         246



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MANY PEOPLE IN THE NASSAU UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER TREATS A YEAR?

                                 MR. RA:  ABOUT 300,000.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND THAT'S ABOUT 300 A DAY?  YES.

                    AND DO YOU KNOW THAT IT'S LOCATED IN AN AREA WHERE THERE ARE FEW IF ANY

                    URGENT CARES?

                                 MR. RA:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  IT'S LOCATED IN AN AREA OF NASSAU

                    COUNTY WHERE THERE ARE FEW IF ANY URGENT CARE FACILITIES.

                                 MR. RA:  SURE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT LOST

                    IN 2023?

                                 MR. RA:  I'M FAMILIAR WITH THEIR FINANCES, BUT ARE YOU

                    FAMILIAR WITH THE CHANGE THAT THEY HAVE MADE IN TERMS OF THEIR

                    FINANCIAL SITUATION?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE FACT THAT THEY

                    LOST 180 MILLION IN 2023 AND 158 MILLION IN 2024; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. RA:  I THINK IT IS, YES.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YES.  SO IS THAT A MATTER OF CONCERN?

                                 MR. RA:  I THINK THAT'S A MATTER OF CONCERN, BUT

                    WHAT'S ALSO A MATTER OF CONCERN IS THE IDEA OF NEW YORK STATE COMING

                    IN THAT HAS -- WE'VE SEEN IN PREVIOUS BUDGETS FUNDING GET ALLOCATED TO

                    ANY NUMBER OF OTHER HOSPITALS, BUT THE STATE HAS NOT BEEN WILLING TO

                    HELP WHAT IS A SAFETY NET HOSPITAL THAT SERVES, AS I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE,

                    A LARGELY MEDICAID AND UNINSURED POPULATION, AND WE HAVE ANY

                    NUMBER OF HOSPITALS AROUND THIS STATE.  WE'VE SEEN OUR OWN, RIGHT,

                                         247



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SUNY-RUN HOSPITALS EXPERIENCE SIMILAR ISSUES THAT SERVE THESE

                    POPULATIONS BECAUSE THE REIMBURSEMENT RATES ARE LOW, BECAUSE THEY ARE

                    TREATING UNINSURED PATIENTS AND NOBODY IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A

                    PROFITABLE INSTITUTION UNDER THOSE SITUATIONS.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  SO I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE NASSAU

                    UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER AND HAVE BEEN FOR MANY YEARS, AND AS A

                    MATTER OF FACT HAVE SPENT WITH SEVERAL OF MY FRIENDS THEIR LAST MOMENTS

                    ON EARTH THERE.  AND I THINK THAT EVERY ONE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE WANTS

                    TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS HOSPITAL SUCCEEDS AND I'M SURE YOU WOULD AGREE

                    WITH THAT.

                                 MR. RA:  I -- I WOULD AGREE AND I HOPE THAT THAT'S THE

                    INTENTION, BUT ARE YOU, MR. LAVINE, AND I KNOW YOU ASKED ME TO YIELD,

                    BUT CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THAT'S WHAT I'M HERE FOR.

                                 MR. RA:  OKAY.  ARE YOU FAMILIAR, I'M SURE YOU ARE,

                    WITH THE REPORT THAT WAS DONE DURING THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION WITH

                    REGARD TO THE FUTURE OF THE HOSPITAL?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YES.

                                 MR. RA:  WHICH RECOMMENDED IT BECOME A LIMITED

                    PSYCH FACILITY WITH JUST A FEW HUNDRED EMPLOYEES AS OPPOSED TO I'M

                    SURE YOU'RE AWARE THERE ABOUT 3,600 EMPLOYEES WORKING THERE NOW AS A

                    FULL HOSPITAL WITH AN EMERGENCY ROOM, WITH A BURN CENTER, A LEVEL ONE

                    TRAUMA CENTER.  A LOT OF THE LANGUAGE I SEE HERE LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO

                    WHAT IS IN THAT REPORT.

                                 SO I AM QUESTIONING WHAT THE LONG-TERM INTENTION IS

                                         248



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    FOR THIS HOSPITAL.  SO I HOPE YOU ARE CORRECT THAT THE INTENTION IS TO PUT

                    THE HOSPITAL ON -- ON SOUND FISCAL FOOTING SO THAT IT CAN CONTINUE TO

                    SERVE THE COMMUNITY, BECAUSE AS I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE YOU LOSE A

                    HOSPITAL LIKE THIS, THE IMPACT THAT IT'LL HAVE ON OUR CONSTITUENTS WOULD

                    BE IMMENSE.  WOULD YOU AGREE?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  SEVENTY PERCENT OF THE FOLKS WHO ARE

                    TREATED AT NUMC COME FROM MINORITY COMMUNITIES AND UNDERSERVED

                    COMMUNITIES AND THAT'S WHY THERE ARE SO VERY FEW URGENT CARE FACILITIES

                    IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS, AND THERE ARE 3,500 EMPLOYEES THERE.

                                 NOW, YOU DO KNOW THAT OUTSIDE AUDITORS FOR AT LEAST

                    THE LAST FIVE YEARS HAVE SAID THAT THAT HOSPITAL CANNOT CONTINUE

                    FUNCTIONING THE WAY IT FUNCTIONS.  IT'S GOING TO FAIL.

                                 MR. RA:  YES, AND I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY WE ARE

                    DOING THIS NOW IF WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR FIVE YEARS.  WHY

                    DIDN'T WE DO THIS FIVE YEARS AGO?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WELL, AS SOMEONE VERY WISE ONCE TOLD

                    ME, IF NOT FOR THE LAST MINUTE NOTHING WOULD EVER GET DONE, BUT WE ALSO

                    ARE AWARE THAT NEWSDAY HAS REFERRED TO THE HOSPITAL AS A SINKING SHIP,

                    CORRECT?

                                 MR. RA:  YES, BUT I DON'T ALWAYS TAKE EVERYTHING THAT

                    I READ IN NEWSDAY AS GOSPEL, SO I THINK THAT CHARACTERIZATION MAY MEAN

                    MORE TO YOU FROM NEWSDAY THAN IT DOES TO ME.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WELL, I THINK IT OUGHT TO MEAN A LOT TO

                    EVERYONE WHO'S CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE HOSPITAL.  AND YOU

                    ARE AWARE THAT THE EXECUTIVE OFFICER OR THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD,

                                         249



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MATTHEW BRUDERMAN MADE A COMPLAINT TO THE POLICE THAT HIS HOME ON

                    CENTER ISLAND --

                                 MR. RA: (INDISCERNIBLE) --

                                 MR. LAVINE: -- ON CENTER ISLAND.

                                 MR. RA:  THE FORMER CHAIRMAN, HE WAS DISMISSED BY

                    THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND I THINK I'M GOING TO GET TO THAT

                    POINT BUT I'M GLAD THAT YOU EMPHASIZED THAT BECAUSE TWO WEEKS AGO

                    THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE FORCED HIM TO RESIGN.  OH, ACTUALLY FIRED HIM,

                    FIRED HIM WHEN HE WOULDN'T OFFER A RESIGNATION.  NOW, THAT GUY, MR.

                    BRUDERMAN CLAIMED -- AND THIS IS THE GUY WHO'S RUNNING THE HOSPITAL --

                    THAT GUY CLAIMED THAT BURGLARS --

                                 MR. RA:  WELL, HE'S THE CHAIR OF THE BOARD, THE CEO

                    IS RUNNING THE HOSPITAL.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND -- AND -- AND WE KNOW WHO HE

                    ANSWERS TO, RIGHT, TO THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE.  ANY QUESTION ABOUT THAT?

                    I DON'T THINK SO.

                                 SO HE CLAIMED - AND I KNOW THIS MAY NOT BE VERY

                    COMFORTABLE FOR SOME PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT - BUT HE CLAIMED THAT

                    BURGLARS ACTUALLY BROKE INTO HIS MANSION ON CENTER ISLAND AND STOLE

                    MATERIAL DOCUMENTS THAT THE FBI WANTED.

                                 MR. RA:  YES.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  NOW DOES THAT GIVE US CONFIDENCE IN

                    THE WAY THIS HOSPITAL IS BEING MANAGED?

                                 MR. RA:  WELL, AGAIN, HE WAS FIRED BY -- BY THE

                                         250



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  DOES THAT GIVE YOU CONFIDENCE?  DID

                    YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE HOSPITAL WHEN IT ENDORSED THE POLITICAL

                    CANDIDATE FOR DISTRICT ATTORNEY, BECAUSE I DIDN'T HEAR ANYONE ON YOUR

                    SIDE OF THE AISLE SAYING --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  GENTLEMEN,

                    GENTLEMEN.  WE NEED TO BE SPEAKING ON THE BILL.

                                 DO YOU CONTINUE TO YIELD, MR. RA?

                                 MR. RA:  MY TIME'S UP.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  YOU'RE NOT DOING

                    YOUR SECOND 15?

                                 MR. RA:  NOT RIGHT NOW.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YOU'RE WELCOME, MR. RA, AND THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. DURSO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WOULD

                    THE CHAIR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THANK YOU, MR. PRETLOW.

                                 SO TO CONTINUE WITH WHAT MY COLLEAGUE WAS SPEAKING

                    OF, ARE -- ARE WE CONSIDERING THIS A STATE TAKEOVER OF NUMC?

                                         251



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE YOU CAN TERM IT THAT BUT

                    IT'S NOT REALLY A STATE TAKEOVER.  IT'S STILL BEING RUN BY THE COUNTY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO IT'S STILL BEING RUN BY THE COUNTY

                    AND -- OKAY.  SO WITH THAT BEING SAID AND JUST TO -- I KNOW WE'RE GOING

                    TO GO OVER A LOT OF THE SIMILAR QUESTIONS HERE, BUT THEY'RE CHANGING THE

                    BOARD FROM 15 TO 11, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  IF IT'S NOT A STATE TAKEOVER, WHY IS IT

                    THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE SIX APPOINTEES APPOINTED BY ELECTED OFFICIALS

                    THAT LIVE OUTSIDE THE COUNTY?  SHOULDN'T WE HAVE A COUNTY HOSPITAL RUN

                    BY THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND WHAT GOES ON IN THE COUNTY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE THE EXECUTIVE'S OPINION IS

                    TO ENSURE THAT THE BOARD IS WELL RUN.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THAT -- SO THE ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT

                    LIVE OUTSIDE THE COUNTY THAT ARE GOING TO APPOINT THOSE THAT SIT ON THIS

                    BOARD THAT'S GOING FROM 11 TO 15 ARE GOING TO KNOW WHAT THE NEEDS OF

                    NASSAU COUNTY ARE BETTER THAN THOSE WHO LIVE IN NASSAU COUNTY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I BELIEVE THAT ONLY TWO WILL

                    LIVE OUTSIDE THE COUNTY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  WELL, IT'S ONLY TWO TOTAL YOU'RE SAYING

                    THAT COULD LIVE OUTSIDE THE COUNTY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE APPOINTED BY

                    THOSE THAT LIVE OUTSIDE THE COUNTY IS WHAT I WAS SAYING, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT DEPENDS ON WHERE THE GOVERNOR

                                         252



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IS FROM.

                                 MR. DURSO:  WELL, THE CURRENT GOVERNOR IS FROM

                    BUFFALO, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE CURRENT GOVERNOR IS FROM --

                    LIVES IN BUFFALO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  CORRECT.  SO SHE DOESN'T KNOW MUCH

                    ABOUT NASSAU COUNTY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT NASSAU

                    COUNTY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT NASSAU

                    COUNTY, SIR?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I KNOW IT'S TO THE EAST OF QUEENS

                    COUNTY AND TO THE WEST OF SUFFOLK COUNTY.  IT HAS BEACHES.  IT HAS

                    ISLANDS THAT ARE ON FIRE.  IT HAS --

                                 MR. DURSO:  WELL, NOT ANYMORE, NOT ANYMORE.

                    WRONG COUNTY ACTUALLY, YES.  THAT WAS SUFFOLK COUNTY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ISN'T FIRE ISLAND IN NASSAU COUNTY?

                                 MR. DURSO:  NO.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OH, THAT'S SUFFOLK?  I'VE NEVER BEEN

                    THERE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THAT'S OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT --

                                 MR. DURSO:  NEITHER OR PROBABLY SOME OF THE

                    PEOPLE THAT WILL BE APPOINTED TO THIS BOARD, BUT THAT'S OKAY.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                         253



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 SO NOW THERE'S GOING TO BE - AND I'M JUST GOING TO READ

                    THIS AGAIN - SIX APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR INCLUDING THE FOLLOWING,

                    ONE SHALL BE APPOINTED UPON THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE SPEAKER OF THE

                    ASSEMBLY, ONE SHALL BE APPOINTED UPON RECOMMENDATION OF THE

                    TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  THEN THERE WILL BE TWO APPOINTED BY

                    THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE FOR ONLY THOSE TWO YEARS.  WHAT WAS YOUR

                    REASONING FOR THE TWO YEARS ONLY, SIR?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS WHAT THE EXECUTIVE HAD

                    SUGGESTED THAT WE DO AND PART OF THE NEGOTIATION THAT WAS FINALIZED TO

                    BE CONTAINED IN THIS BUDGET.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO AGAIN, THE TWO APPOINTED BY THE

                    COUNTY EXECUTIVE WHO ESSENTIALLY IS IN CHARGE OF OUR COUNTY ONLY GETS

                    TWO YEARS, BUT THEN THE TWO APPOINTED -- ONE APPOINTED BY THE

                    MINORITY LEADER OF THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE GETS A THREE-YEAR TERM. WHY

                    WOULD IT ONLY BE -- WHY WOULD IT BE THREE YEARS FOR A COUNTY LEGISLATOR

                    ONLY HAS A TWO-YEAR TERM, BUT TWO YEARS FOR A COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAS A

                    FOUR YEAR?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT'S HOW THE NEGOTIATIONS

                    WORKED OUT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO IT DIDN'T WORK OUT IN OUR

                    FAVOR IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SOMETIMES THAT HAPPENS.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SURE.  I'M JUST GOING TO CONTINUE WITH

                                         254



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MY NOTES HERE.  MUST BE RESIDENTS, OKAY.  SO DIRECTORS APPOINTED BY THE

                    COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE MUST BE RESIDENTS OF

                    NASSAU COUNTY, FOUR OF THE DIRECTORS APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR MUST

                    BE RESIDENTS OF NASSAU COUNTY, PROVISIONS REQUIRED APPOINTEES OF THE

                    GOVERNOR TO BE APPOINTED ON THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE COUNTY

                    EXECUTIVE AND THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE ARE REMOVED.  WHY ARE THEY

                    REMOVING THOSE PROVISIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M NOT -- WHAT SECTION ARE YOU

                    REFERRING TO?

                                 MR. DURSO:  I DON'T HAVE THE SAME SECTION YOU DO,

                    SIR.  I JUST HAVE OUR MEMO BREAKDOWN.

                                 SO ACTUALLY LET ME JUST GET TO A DIFFERENT QUESTION.  IT

                    SAYS THE BOARD NO LONGER REQUIRES THE APPROVAL OF THE COUNTY

                    EXECUTIVE, CORRECT, WHEN SELECTING THE CEO.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO THE BOARD NO LONGER REQUIRES THE

                    APPROVAL OF THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE WHEN SELECTING A CEO.  AND THE

                    SALARY AND BENEFITS OF THAT CEO WILL BE SUBJECT TO NIFA APPROVAL,

                    CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  WHO APPOINTS THOSE THAT ARE

                    PART OF NIFA?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE THE

                    GOVERNOR.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO ESSENTIALLY IT'S A STATE TAKEOVER OF

                                         255



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE COUNTY HOSPITAL, CORRECT, BECAUSE NIFA AND THE GOVERNOR ARE

                    ESSENTIALLY CONTROLLING THE BOARD AND WHO GETS APPOINTED TO THE BOARD,

                    CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I WOULDN'T TERM IT AS A STATE

                    TAKEOVER.  IT MAY HAVE THAT APPEARANCE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  IT CERTAINLY DOES.  OKAY.  SO JUST

                    ANOTHER FOOD FOR THOUGHT HERE.

                                 LAST YEAR WE GAVE $100 MILLION TO SUNY DOWNSTATE.

                    WAS THERE A SIMILAR MECHANISM PUT IN PLACE FOR A SIMILAR TAKEOVER OF

                    THAT BOARD IN COMPARISON TO THE BOARD OF NASSAU COUNTY HOSPITAL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  WHY NOT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S ALREADY A STATE HOSPITAL, I

                    BELIEVE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  IT'S ALREADY A STATE HOSPITAL?  BUT WHY

                    -- OKAY.  SO --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SUNY DOWNSTATE IS A STATE

                    HOSPITAL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  ALL RIGHT.  SO IT'S ALREADY A STATE

                    HOSPITAL SO NOW WE'RE MAKING NASSAU COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER A STATE

                    HOSPITAL, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NOT REALLY.  IT'S STILL GOING TO BE

                    NASSAU COUNTY'S HOSPITAL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  UNDERSTOOD.  SO WHAT WAS THE REASON

                    FOR THE $100 MILLION TO SUNY DOWNSTATE?

                                         256



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY HAD TO SHORE UP SOME OF THE

                    EXPENSES THAT WERE NECESSARY.

                                 MR. DURSO:  SO WHY ARE THEY NOT GIVING NASSAU

                    COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER WHO NEEDS SOME SHORING UP $100 MILLION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE -- WE ARE GIVING THE MEDICAL

                    CENTER $50 MILLION.

                                 MR. DURSO:  IT'S NOT HUNDRED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE GETTING WHAT, 50 MILLION IN

                    CAPITAL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  I'M SORRY, SIR?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE GAVE THEM $50 MILLION.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  BUT WE GAVE SUNY DOWNSTATE

                    100.  WHY THE $50 MILLION DISCREPANCY ON TWO HOSPITALS THAT NEEDED

                    MONEY, NEEDED FUNDING TO OPERATE?  WHY ARE WE GIVING SUNY

                    DOWNSTATE THAT CHANCE AND NOT TAKING OVER THEIR BOARD, CHANGING HOW

                    THEIR BOARD IS STRUCTURED BUT WE'RE CHANGING NASSAU COUNTY MEDICAL

                    CENTER --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL, SUNY DOWNSTATE

                    HAD MORE NEEDS THAN -- THAN NASSAU HAS RIGHT NOW.  SO THAT'S WHY THEY

                    GOT THE $100 MILLION.

                                 MR. DURSO:  WHAT DIFFERENT NEEDS DID THEY HAVE, IF

                    YOU REMEMBER.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME

                    CAPITAL NEEDS, FIRST OF ALL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  BUT --

                                         257



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SO THEY -- SO YOU RECEIVE OR YOU

                    RECEIVE -- IT'S NOT ONLY YOU, IT'S THE MEDICAL CENTER IS RECEIVING I

                    BELIEVE $50 MILLION IN CAPITAL TO SHORE UP SOME OF ITS FACILITIES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  UNDERSTOOD.  BUT AS MY COLLEAGUE HAD

                    SAID BEFORE, THE FINANCIAL DISTRESS AS HE CALLED IT THAT NASSAU COUNTY

                    MEDICAL CENTER HAS BEEN IN, IT IS STILL A VERY VITAL AND IMPORTANT PIECE

                    OF NASSAU COUNTY BEING ONE OF OUR MAIN HOSPITALS HAVING CERTAIN

                    CENTERS JUST LIKE THE BURN UNIT AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE REALLY

                    SPECIFIC AND IMPORTANT TO THOSE THAT LIVE IN NASSAU COUNTY.  WHY

                    WOULDN'T WE JUST FUND IT AS OPPOSED TO JUST TAKING OVER THE BOARD?  IT'S

                    NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE FINANCIAL STRESS THAT IT'S IN RIGHT NOW.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THE STATE DID ATTEMPT TO WORK

                    WITH NASSAU COUNTY AND THEY REFUSED TO TAKE THE HELP.

                                 MR. DURSO:  HOW IS THAT?  CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY WOULDN'T SHARE INFORMATION,

                    THEY WOULDN'T WORK WITH THE STATE.  THEY TRIED -- THE STATE TRIED TO GIVE

                    THEM DISTRESSED HOSPITAL PAYMENTS AND THEY DIDN'T ACCEPT THEM.

                                 MR. DURSO:  DO YOU KNOW BY ANY CHANCE, SIR, IF

                    THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS EVER MET WITH THE HOSPITAL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE MULTIPLE TIMES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  FROM WHAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT

                    IS NOT HAPPENING, THAT THE DOH HAS REFUSED TO MEET WITH NASSAU

                    COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER AND THEIR BOARD TO DISCUSS SOME OF THE NEEDS

                    OF THE HOSPITAL.  MY CONCERN AGAIN, SIR, OBVIOUSLY IS BEING A NASSAU

                    COUNTY RESIDENT --

                                         258



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. LAVINE, WHY DO

                    YOU RISE?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WILL THE SPEAKER YIELD?

                                 MR. DURSO:  ABSOLUTELY, SIR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPEAKER YIELDS.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THE STATE OFFERED $84 MILLION AND ALL

                    THE STATE WANTED IN RETURN WAS FOR THE HOSPITAL TO BE RUN LIKE A HOSPITAL

                    INCLUDING FILING ACTUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, INCLUDING A PROFESSIONAL

                    SEARCH FOR THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE, INCLUDING REAL INFORMATION ON THE

                    HIGHEST PAID EMPLOYEES AT THIS PARTICULAR FACILITY AND PAID TO THE

                    OUTSIDE LOBBYISTS AND THE FINANCIAL CONSULTANTS, AND THE COUNTY SIMPLY

                    SAID NOT INTERESTED.

                                 MR. DURSO:  AND WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS, SIR?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  NOW I COULD GIVE YOU A DIPLOMATIC

                    ANSWER.

                                 MR. DURSO:  I WOULD PREFER YOUR ANSWER.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU THE TRUTH AS I

                    SEE IT.

                                 MR. DURSO:  YES, SIR.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I DON'T THINK THE COUNTY WANTS TO RUN

                    THIS FACILITY.  AND I THINK THE COUNTY HAS WANTED TO GET RID OF THIS

                    FACILITY AND THE A. HOLLY PATTERSON NURSING FACILITY FOR MANY, MANY

                    YEARS.  AND I WOULD ASK YOU, WHY WOULD THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE PUT

                    SOMEONE IN CHARGE OF THE BOARD WHO HAD ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE

                    WHATSOEVER IN TERMS OF HEALTHCARE OR RUNNING A HOSPITAL?  AND THAT'S

                                         259



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE GUY WHOSE HOME AS YOU WILL RECALL WAS BURGLARIZED AND ALL THAT

                    WAS TAKEN, NONE OF THE EXPENSIVE ARTWORK, NONE OF THE EXPENSIVE

                    AUTOMOBILES.

                                 MR. DURSO:  I UNDERSTAND, SIR.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS,

                    BUT --

                                 MR. DURSO:  NO, NO. IT'S NOT THAT I DON'T WHAT TO

                    HEAR IT.  IT'S JUST I'M LIMITED ON TIME AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE'S

                    PRIVATE ISSUES THAT I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH.  IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT

                    WHY THEY WILL PUT SOMEONE IN CHARGE LIKE THAT, CAN YOU GUARANTEE ME

                    THAT THE GOVERNOR AND NIFA'S GOING TO PUT SOMEONE IN CHARGE THAT'S

                    QUALIFIED?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WELL, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE SAID HE

                    NEEDED SOME -- HE NEEDED --

                                 MR. DURSO:  CAN YOU GUARANTEE ME THAT --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WE'RE ASKING AND

                    ANSWERING QUESTIONS, GENTLEMEN, PLEASE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  SO THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS

                    WHEN MATTHEW BRUDERMAN WAS APPOINTED, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE SAID

                    HE NEEDED SOMEONE OF HIS STATURE TO BE INVOLVED AT THE HOSPITAL.  I AM

                    --

                                 MR. DURSO:  MR. LAVINE, ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER

                    MY QUESTION?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YOU KNOW, I -- MR. DURSO, YOU'RE A

                    GOOD GUY.

                                         260



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. TAGUE, WHY DO

                    YOU RISE?

                                 MR. TAGUE:  I'M WONDERING, MADAM SPEAKER, WHAT

                    THE GERMANENESS OF THIS DISCUSSION IS ON THIS BUDGET BILL THAT WE ARE

                    DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW?  I THINK IT'S TIME THAT WE MOVE ON, TALK ABOUT THE

                    BILL AND NEVER MIND THIS POLITICAL DISCUSSION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    TAGUE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  MR. LAVINE, I UNDERSTAND YOUR

                    CONCERN WITH WHO WAS PRIORLY APPOINTED.  MY CONCERN IS GOING

                    FORWARD.  OBVIOUSLY THIS BILL HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR, CORRECT?

                    THE BUDGET BILL ITSELF IS GOING TO PASS, WHICH IS NOW GOING TO ALLOW FOR

                    ESSENTIALLY A STATE TAKEOVER.  IF YOU WANT TO STAND UP AND SAY TO ME

                    THAT YOU CAN GUARANTEE THAT THE PERSON THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CEO OF

                    THIS HOSPITAL IS GOING TO BE QUALIFIED IN HEALTHCARE, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR

                    THAT FROM YOU.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  HISTORY MATTERS.

                                 MR. DURSO:  JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION, PLEASE, SIR.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THE

                    QUESTION.  AND IF YOU'LL ALLOW ME TO --

                                 MR. DURSO:  YES.

                                 MR. LAVINE: -- I'LL BE VERY PLEASED TO.  HISTORY

                    DOESN'T MATTER?  ARE WE SUPPOSED TO ACCEPT THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A

                    WHOLE NEW TURN OF LIFE'S EVENTS AT THIS HOSPITAL THAT RUNS CONTRARY TO

                    WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST YEARS?  I'M NOT THAT

                                         261



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    GULLABLE AND I DON'T THINK ANY OF US SHOULD BE THAT GULLABLE.

                                 MR. DURSO:  I AGREE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND IF THIS HOSPITAL DOESN'T CHANGE, IT

                    IS GOING TO FAIL AND THAT IS GOING TO BE VERY BAD FOR EVERYONE IN NASSAU

                    COUNTY AND EVERYONE IN OUR REGION OF THE -- OF THE STATE AND WE DO NOT

                    WANT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.

                                 NOW YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW, BUT YOUR VIEW HAS

                    HELD FOR YEARS.

                                 MR. DURSO:  MR. LAVINE, MR. LAVINE, UNFORTUNATELY

                    I'M GOING TO RUN OUT OF TIME AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO STAND AND ASK ME

                    QUESTIONS, I'D APPRECIATE YOU ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT I ASK YOU.

                    YOU'RE REFUSING TO DO THAT, SIR, SO I APOLOGIZE BUT I NO LONGER YIELD TO

                    MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  OH, MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS.  I AM SO

                    OFFENDED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    LAVINE.

                                 MR. DURSO.

                                 MR. DURSO:  ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. DURSO:  OKAY.  SO UNFORTUNATELY AS WE ALL

                    KNOW THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A VERY POLITICAL AND POLITICALLY-DRIVEN PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION.  WE UNDERSTAND THAT AND -- AND MAYBE NOT EVERYBODY DOES

                    UNDERSTAND, BUT NASSAU COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER IS A VERY IMPORTANT

                    AND VITAL PIECE OF NASSAU COUNTY, WHICH AS MR. LAVINE SAID SERVES

                                         262



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OVER 300,000 PEOPLE AND WE THANK THEM FOR BEING THERE, BUT IT ALSO

                    EMPLOYS 3,600 PEOPLE, AND NOBODY YET HERE HAS GUARANTEED THE FACT

                    THAT THOSE 3,600 PEOPLE WILL STAY EMPLOYED, THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO

                    SERVICE 300,000 PEOPLE THAT LIVE WITHIN THE COUNTY THAT I LOVE AND LIVE

                    IN.  IT'S, AGAIN, THIS IS PUTTING POLITICS BEFORE PEOPLE, WHICH IS

                    UNFORTUNATE.  AND AS WE HAD SAID BEFORE, THERE WAS PLANS IN PLACE FOR

                    THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS PRIOR TO THE ADMINISTRATION THAT'S IN NOW TO

                    SHUT DOWN THIS HOSPITAL AND CHANGE IT.  AND AGAIN, NO ONE CAN

                    GUARANTEE THAT THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, WHICH AGAIN IS UNFORTUNATE.

                    THIS IS STRICTLY ABOUT POLITICS -- EXCUSE ME, MADAM SPEAKER, STRICTLY

                    ABOUT PUTTING PEOPLE LAST AND NOT GUARANTEEING THE FACT THAT, AGAIN, AND

                    I WILL SAY IT AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S WHAT I'M ALL ABOUT, THAT THE 300,000

                    RESIDENTS THAT GET SERVICED BY THIS HOSPITAL WILL CONTINUE TO BE SERVICED

                    AND THE 3,600 UNION MEMBERS THAT WORK IN THIS HOSPITAL ARE NOT

                    GUARANTEED THEIR JOB.  AND I KNOW FOR MYSELF NOR MY COLLEAGUES WILL

                    STAND FOR THAT.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. SLATER.

                                 MR. SLATER:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL

                    CHAIRMAN PRETLOW YIELD FOR JUST A FEW QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I WILL YIELD FOR THREE QUESTIONS, YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                         263



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. SLATER:  JUST THREE.  I FIGURED WE'LL LET THE TWO

                    SIDES HERE GO BACK TO THEIR CORNERS FOR A LITTLE BIT AND REST FOR ANOTHER

                    ROUND.

                                 SIR, I'D LIKE TO JUST TALK ABOUT THE MEDICAL INDEMNITY

                    FUND, SOMETHING THAT I'VE BECOME A BIT FAMILIAR WITH.  THIS BUDGET BILL

                    SPEAKS TO THE MEDICAL INDEMNITY FUND; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT THE

                    PROVISIONS OF THE BUDGET DO FOR THE MEDICAL INDEMNITY FUND, THE MIF?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT EXTENDS THE ENHANCED -- THE

                    ENHANCED RATES AND THERE'S ALSO A CASH INJECTION.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND THERE'S A CASH INJECTION YOU

                    SAID?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE

                    FUNDS STAYS FLUID.

                                 MR. SLATER:  CORRECT, BECAUSE LAST YEAR IT WAS SHUT

                    DOWN FOR NEW ENROLLEES; IS THAT ACCURATE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE SO.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  AND WE -- AND THE GOVERNOR

                    REALLOCATED APPROXIMATELY ANOTHER $56 MILLION TO REOPEN IT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  SO THE PROVISIONS THAT WE'RE LOOKING

                    AT IN THIS BILL, HOW DOES IT PREVENT SOMETHING LIKE THAT FROM OCCURRING

                    AGAIN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE HAVE ENOUGH MONEY IN THE -- IN

                                         264



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE ACCOUNT.  WE ALLOCATED ENOUGH THIS TIME.

                                 MR. SLATER:  HOW MUCH DID WE ALLOCATE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-NINE

                    MILLION.

                                 MR. SLATER:  ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-NINE MILLION

                    SPECIFICALLY FOR MIF.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  AND IS THERE ANYTHING FROM A

                    PROCEDURAL STANDPOINT OR ADMINISTRATIVE STANDPOINT THAT IS INCLUDED IN

                    THE PROVISIONS OF THIS BILL?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE HAVEN'T MADE ANY POLICY

                    CHANGES.  WE JUST PUT IN A LITTLE EXTRA MONEY.

                                 MR. SLATER:  BECAUSE I KNOW THAT DURING THE

                    BUDGET HEARING WHEN I ASKED THE COMMISSIONER SPECIFICALLY ABOUT

                    MIF, HE SAID THAT HE HAD SOME SUGGESTIONS THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO

                    EXPLORE.  AND HE ALSO SAID THAT THIS COULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLORE

                    THOSE SUGGESTIONS.  HAVE WE HEARD FROM THE COMMISSIONER ABOUT WHAT

                    CHANGES TO THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE MIF HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THERE'S ALWAYS SOMEONE THAT

                    WOULD LIKE TO SEE CHANGE BUT NO, WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS SO THERE'S

                    BEEN NOTHING HAS COME TO FRUITION.  SO THOSE CONVERSATIONS WILL

                    CONTINUE.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR BECAUSE

                    I'VE ASKED TO MEET WITH THE COMMISSIONER ABOUT THIS SINCE THAT

                    MEETING.  HE HAS NOT RESPONDED.  FAMILIES IN THE MIF HAVE ASKED TO

                                         265



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MEET WITH HIM.  YET HE HAS NOT RESPONDED TO THEM EITHER, AND SO IT'S

                    LEFT US IN THE DARK WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT SUGGESTIONS OR

                    RECOMMENDATIONS THAT HE HAS HAD.  AND SO I KNOW THAT THERE ARE

                    SEVERAL PROPOSALS THAT ARE OUT THERE BUT NOTHING ADMINISTRATIVELY IS

                    INCLUDED, JUST TO RECAP, BUT $159 MILLION HAS BEEN ADDED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. SLATER:  OKAY.  WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH

                    FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS, MR. CHAIRMAN, ON THE MIF, I APPRECIATE

                    IT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. SLATER:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MAHER.

                                 MR. MAHER:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE CHAIR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. MAHER:  THANK YOU SO MUCH.

                                 SO THE FIRST QUESTION I HAVE IS ON EMS.  I KNOW THAT

                    WE DISCUSSED THAT ESSENTIAL SERVICE WAS SOMETHING THAT WE COULDN'T

                    REALLY GET AN AGREEMENT ON.  IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO ALL

                    PARTIES THAT ESSENTIAL SERVICE IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD GET TO, THAT

                    WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SUPPORT OUR EMS A -- A LITTLE BIT MORE, JUST THERE

                                         266



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WERE SOME DIFFERENCES --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  ABSOLUTELY, BUT WE DIDN'T WANT TO

                    PUT A MANDATE ON THE LOCALITIES.  EVERY COUNTY HANDLES IT A LITTLE BIT

                    DIFFERENTLY AND WE DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL WITH REGARD TO

                    EMS, SO THOSE -- THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE CONTINUING, AND IF LEGISLATION

                    IS NECESSARY IT WOULD BE IN A FUTURE BILL SOMETIME THIS SESSION.

                                 MR. MAHER:  THE STATE OF NEW YORK DIDN'T WANT TO

                    PUT A MANDATE ON LOCALITIES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. MAHER:  I'M SORRY.  JUST --

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 -- OKAY, FOR EMS, ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU.  WELL, I'M

                    HAPPY THAT IT'S GOING TO BE DISCUSSED AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE IT ON AFTER

                    THE BUDGET.

                                 I WANT TO HIT ON THE 2.6 PERCENT HUMAN SERVICES

                    TARGETED INFLATIONARY INCREASE, WHICH IS NOT, AS WE'VE DISCUSSED

                    PREVIOUSLY, A TARGETED INFLATIONARY INCREASE, THE INCREASE WOULD BE

                    CLOSER TO THAT 7.8 PERCENT IF WE WERE BEING TRUE TO THOSE WORDS.

                                 YOU HAD MENTIONED A NUMBER, 1 PERCENT WOULD BE

                    100 MILLION FOR EVERY 1 PERCENT, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. MAHER:  I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT IN A

                    BUDGET OF 254 BILLION THAT THERE WERE THINGS THAT WE PRIORITIZED OVER

                    OUR OFFICE OF MENTAL HEALTH AND NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE

                    MANY COUNTLESS WORKING IN A JOB SERVING OUR MOST IN NEED RESIDENTS IN

                                         267



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THIS STATE, WHILE SOMETIMES BEING ON SOCIAL SERVICES THEMSELVES FOR

                    ORGANIZATIONS THAT NOW AFTER SEVERAL YEARS ARE RECEIVING WHAT AMOUNTS

                    TO A CUT DUE TO INFLATION AND WHAT THE STATE IS PROVIDING.  I -- I THINK A

                    LOT OF FOLKS WOULD AGREE WITH ME THAT WE PROBABLY COULD'VE PRIORITIZED

                    DIFFERENT AREAS IN THE BUDGET AND I WOULD ASK, SIR, IF YOU AGREE WITH

                    THAT STATEMENT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M SORRY.  DID YOU ASK A QUESTION?

                                 MR. MAHER:  I'M ASKING, SIR, RESPECTFULLY IF YOU

                    WOULD AGREE THAT THERE ARE PROBABLY SOME OTHER AREAS IN THIS BUDGET

                    THAT WE COULD HAVE PRIORITIZED SOME OF OUR HUMAN SERVICES, DIRECT

                    SERVICE PROFESSIONALS THAT ARE DOING GOD'S WORK ON THE GROUND.  IT -- IT

                    DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THIS BUDGET SUPPORTS THEM ENOUGH.  IN FACT, AS MUCH AS

                    WE -- WE KNOW THE PREVIOUS GOVERNOR SET US BACK BY NOT HAVING THE

                    INCREASES OVER YEAR BY YEAR BY YEAR, WE NEED THAT LARGE NUMBER, THAT

                    7.8 PERCENT OR SOMETHING CLOSE TO IT, NOT JUST TO KEEP UP BUT TO KEEP UP

                    AND CATCH UP, AND -- AND MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, DO YOU BELIEVE THERE

                    ARE OTHER AREAS WE COULD HAVE COME THROUGH IN THE BUDGET TO MAKE UP

                    THOSE COUPLE 100 MILLION THAT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SHOULD WE HAVE REDUCED

                    SOMETHING ELSE TO INCREASE THIS?  THAT IS A POSSIBILITY.

                                 IN OUR ASSEMBLY ONE-HOUSE WE DID INCLUDE A LARGER

                    INCREASE.  AND DURING THE NEGOTIATIONS, IT DIDN'T COME TO WHAT WE HAD

                    ACTUALLY WANTED.  SO WE HAVE TO, AS YOU KNOW HOW THE LAW IS WRITTEN,

                    WE NOW HAVE A LOT OF AUTHORITY OVER WHAT'S IN THE BUDGET AND WE HAVE

                    TO GET WHAT WE CAN DURING THE NEGOTIATIONS.

                                         268



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. MAHER:  WELL, THANK YOU FOR THAT RESPONSE.  I

                    DO APPRECIATE THE CANDOR.  THAT 2.1 TO 2.6 JUST SEEMS LIKE A REALLY SLAP

                    IN THE FACE OF SOME OF THOSE EMPLOYEES.  WHILE I KNOW WE'RE TRYING AS

                    HARD AS WE ARE AND I UNDERSTAND OUR ONE-HOUSE WAS WHERE IT WAS,

                    CERTAINLY DISAPPOINTED IN THAT FINAL NUMBER.

                                 I WANT TO ASK ABOUT SECTION JJJ, PREGNANCY LOSS.  I

                    KNOW WE'RE REDEFINING THAT SECTION, REGISTRATION OF FETAL DEATHS TO

                    REPORTING OF PREGNANCY LOSS.  WHY ARE WE DOING THAT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  CAN I REFER THAT QUESTION TO

                    ASSEMBLYWOMAN PAULIN?

                                 MR. MAHER:  SURE.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WE'RE JUST UPDATING OLD TERMINOLOGY.

                                 MR. MAHER:  OKAY.  THAT'S IT?  JUST UPDATING OLD

                    TERMINOLOGY?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YEP.

                                 MR. MAHER:  ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU FOR THAT ANSWER.

                    I APPRECIATE IT.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. MAHER:  ALL RIGHT.  SO I APPRECIATE THE ANSWERS

                    TO MY QUESTIONS.  I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THIS BUDGET BILL THERE'S A LOT

                    WE COULD GET INTO.  OBVIOUSLY WE DIDN'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF TIME TO GO

                    OVER IT.  THANK YOU TO THE STAFF FOR THE WORK THEY'VE DONE TO HELP US GET

                    TO WHERE WE ARE.

                                 THE 2.6 PERCENT IS CRIMINAL, IT REALLY IS.  AND I KNOW

                                         269



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THIS BODY AND OUR ONE-HOUSE AND I WAS PROUD TO SEE THAT WAS AT THE

                    7.8 PERCENT, AND I'M NOT PART OF NEGOTIATIONS SO I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT

                    HAPPENED AND I KNOW A LOT OF US ARE FRUSTRATED BY THIS NUMBER ON BOTH

                    SIDES OF THE AISLE, BUT I HAVE TO STAND UP HERE AND JUST SAY THERE ARE

                    SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE GROUND SERVING OUR RESIDENTS WHO ARE

                    GOING THROUGH CRISIS AND THEY'RE IN NEED OF MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES THERE

                    THEMSELVES JUST BY DOING THE JOBS THAT THEY'RE DOING.

                                 IN SOME OF OUR AGENCIES, RETENTION IS A 50 PERCENT LOSS

                    ANNUALLY, AND WHAT WE'RE DOING BY PUTTING THAT FINAL NUMBER AT 2.6

                    PERCENT IS WE'RE SETTING THEM BACK EVEN FURTHER.  THIS ISN'T JUST FOR

                    SALARY INCREASES.  THIS IS ALSO FOR EXPENSES FOR THESE NON-PROFITS.  AND

                    LET US NOT FORGET THAT NEW YORK STATE IS MANDATING ON LOCALITIES THESE

                    SERVICES TO BE PROVIDED.  THEY'RE SAVING MONEY.  WHAT WOULD HAPPEN

                    -- WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF SOME OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS FALL?  HOW MANY

                    HAVE ALREADY?  WHAT WILL THE STATE'S RESPONSIBILITY BE THEN AND WHAT

                    WILL THE COST BE AT THAT POINT?  THESE ARE THINGS WE OUGHT TO CONSIDER

                    WHEN THINKING ABOUT BUDGETS.  AND AGAIN, I KNOW OUR ONE-HOUSE HAD

                    IT WHERE IT NEEDED TO BE, BUT THIS FINAL NUMBER AT 2.6 PERCENT IS

                    UNACCEPTABLE, DISAPPOINTING AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE THAT

                    ARE ON THE GROUND ARE HEARING THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE VERY UPSET

                    ABOUT IT AND WE CERTAINLY WISH WE COULD DO BETTER.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MIKULIN.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW

                                         270



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  I'M ACTUALLY GOING TO GO BACK INTO

                    WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH NASSAU UNIVERSITY MEDICAL

                    CENTER.  AND RIGHT NOW I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE BONDS AND I THINK THAT

                    THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF -- WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I CANNOT HEAR YOU.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WHEN THIS WAS BEING DISCUSSED

                    BEFORE, I THINK THAT THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A MISUNDERSTANDING HERE.

                    SO I WANT TO START OUT WITH A LITTLE BIT OF A BACKGROUND, WHICH IS WHEN

                    NUMC WAS CREATED, THE COUNTY GUARANTEEING BONDS BECAUSE THEY WERE

                    A CORPORATION, THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY FUNDING, THEY GUARANTEED BONDS ON

                    BEHALF OF THE HOSPITAL IN ORDER FOR THE HOSPITAL TO RUN.  TO THIS DAY THERE

                    ARE STILL BONDS BEING PAID OFF BY NASSAU COUNTY, INTEREST AND OTHERWISE

                    THAT SUPPORT NUMC FROM THE ORIGINAL BONDING.

                                 SO MY QUESTION IS, HAVE WE RECEIVED AN OPINION FROM

                    BOND COUNSEL THAT THE BOND CONVENANCE WOULD NOT BE VIOLATING --

                    WOULD NOT BE VIOLATED BY ENACTING THIS LANGUAGE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THERE'S NO REASON FOR THAT.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WELL, THEN HOW DON'T WE KNOW IF

                    THIS IS GOING TO TRIGGER A DEFAULT ON THE BONDS FROM THE COUNTY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M PRETTY SURE BOND COUNSEL HAS

                                         271



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    LOOKED AT THE PROPOSAL AND APPROVED OF IT.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  ARE YOU SURE?  DO WE KNOW --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AND IF WE DON'T FIX THE FINANCES OF

                    --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  DO WE KNOW --

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- THE MEDICAL CENTER, IT'S GOING --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  DO WE KNOW IF THE BOND --

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- TO CLOSE DOWN ANYWAY.  I THINK

                    WE HEARD THE STENOGRAPHER BECAUSE WE'RE SPEAKING OVER EACH OTHER.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  DO WE KNOW IF THE BOND COUNSEL

                    HAS, THOUGH?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M ASSUMING THEY DID.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  SO THAT'S AN ASSUMPTION.  SO WHY

                    WOULD THE COUNTY TAKE OUT BONDS IF THEY DIDN'T -- IF THEY WEREN'T

                    CONTRACTUALLY GUARANTEEING WITH RESPECT TO THE BOARD IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE

                    THIS CONTROL ON OVER THE BOARD, WHY --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU'RE ASKING WHY DID THE

                    COUNTY --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WHY WOULD THE COUNTY TAKE THE

                    BONDS OUT THEN IF THEY WOULDN'T HAVE CONTROL ON -- ON -- ON OVER THE

                    BOARD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I THINK AT THE TIME THE BONDS

                    WERE TAKEN OUT THEY HAD CONTROL OVER IT, BUT THEY WOULD CONTINUE TO

                    HAVE CONTROL OVER IT, BUT BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, MISMANAGEMENT WITH

                    THE -- WITH THE BOARD, THE STATE HAS MADE A MOVE TO TAKE A

                                         272



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CONSERVATORSHIP OVER IT.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  SO THIS IS A STATE CONTROL THEN,

                    BECAUSE BEFOREHAND YOU SAID THIS WASN'T A STATE CONTROL BUT NOW YOU

                    JUST SAID IT WAS, SO WILL YOU CLARIFY --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M SAYING A CONSERVATOR.  I'M NOT

                    SAYING CONTROL.  CONSERVATORY.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  CONSERVATORY, SO THIS IS A STATE

                    CONTROL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WELL, WE JUST KIND OF WENT BACK AND

                    FORTH BUT...

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE JUST MAKE SURE WE DO THE RIGHT

                    THING.

                                 MR. MIKULIN: -- BUT DO I BELIEVE.  WELL, SO LET'S GO

                    BACK, THOUGH, TO THE BONDS.  SO UNDER STATE LAW WHEN THE BONDHOLDER,

                    SO WHEN A PERSON WENT OUT AND THEY PURCHASED A BOND FOR THE COUNTY,

                    THE BOND SAYS THAT THE STATE WILL NOT ALTER, LIMIT OR IMPAIR THE RIGHTS

                    VESTED TO NASSAU UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER TO OPERATE THE HOSPITAL

                    WHICH WAS FINANCED BY THE BOND.  BUT AREN'T WE CHANGING HOW THE

                    HOSPITAL OPERATES?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, WE'RE NOT.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WELL, HOW AREN'T WE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'RE CHANGING THE BOARD.  WE'RE

                    NOT CHANGING THE --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  NO, WE ARE CHANGING --

                                         273



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK) OF THE

                    HOSPITAL.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  BUT WE ARE CHANGING WHO APPOINTS

                    THE BOARD.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  SO WE ARE CHANGING HOW -- HOW THE

                    BOARD OPERATES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO. THE BOARD STILL OPERATES AS THE

                    BOARD WITH AUTONOMY.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  OH, WE'RE CHANGING --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW THE

                    NEW BOARD MEMBERS ARE PUT IN PLACE.  AND WHY THEY WERE PUT IN PLACE,

                    AND THE REASON THEY WERE PUT IN PLACE IS BECAUSE THE BOARD THAT'S BEEN

                    REPLACED WAS TOTALLY MISMANAGING THE HOSPITAL.

                                 MR. MIKULIN: (INDISCERNIBLE) MISMANAGE THE

                    HOSPITAL.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, I'D LIKE TO -- I COULD ANSWER

                    THAT QUESTION WITH A QUICK POLL OF THE INDIVIDUALS IN THIS -- IN THIS

                    CHAMBER.  AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO WHAT I ASK YOU TO DO, BUT

                    EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM THAT HAS HEALTH INSURANCE --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. LAVINE, WHY DO

                    YOU RISE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- RAISE YOUR HAND.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WILL THE SPEAKER YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  LET ME FINISH MY --

                                         274



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. MIKULIN, DO

                    YOU YIELD?

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  I YIELD.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I COULDN'T HEAR.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. MIKULIN YIELDS.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  SO, MR. MIKULIN, A LONG TIME AGO I

                    WAS COUNSEL FOR AN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCY AND HAD TO REVIEW

                    ALL THE BONDING DOCUMENTS, AND THAT WENT ON FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS AND

                    IT WAS AN INTERESTING EXPERIENCE, BUT I THINK -- OR I THINK YOUR

                    CHARACTERIZATION THAT THERE WILL BE A PROBLEM WITH THE BONDS CAUSE THE

                    BOARD IS CONSTITUTED DIFFERENTLY.  THE BOARD WILL STILL FUNCTION AS A

                    BOARD, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE CONSTITUTED DIFFERENTLY AS IT HAS BEEN OVER

                    THE COURSE OF MANY YEARS WHEN THERE HAVE NOT BEEN FULL MEMBERSHIP

                    ON THAT BOARD.  DO YOU --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WELL, FIRST OF ALL --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  DO YOU ACCEPT THAT?

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  I THINK YOU'RE DEFLECTING FROM THE

                    QUESTION.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I'M SORRY.  I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  I THINK YOU'RE --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I DON'T THINK WE CAN HEAR YOU.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  I THINK YOU'RE DEFLECTING FROM THE

                    ORIGINAL QUESTION WHICH WAS HAVE WE CONSULTED BOND COUNSEL TO VERIFY

                    YOUR POINT, AND THE ANSWER THAT I RECEIVED WAS WE ASSUME SO. SO THE

                    ANSWER IS WE DON'T REALLY KNOW THE ANSWER TO MY QUESTION.

                                         275



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. LAVINE:  BUT I THINK WE DO KNOW THAT IF THE

                    HOSPITAL CONTINUES ON THE TRAJECTORY THAT IT HAS BEEN ON INVOLVING

                    LOSING TONS OF MONEY AND OWING, OWING HALF A BILLION DOLLARS AS OF

                    DECEMBER '24 WITH 400 MILLION OWED TO NYSHA.  I MEAN I THINK WE

                    CAN ASSUME, AND I HOPE YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ME, THAT ANY BONDING IN

                    THE FUTURE IS GOING TO BE PUT IN DANGER.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WELL, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT WHAT ARE

                    WE DOING RIGHT NOW WITH REFLECTS TO NASSAU COUNTY AND THEIR BONDS, SO

                    THEY SHOULD BE CONTINUING TO PAY OUT THE BOND?  WHY ISN'T THE STATE

                    THEN TAKING ON OVER THE BONDING AND PAYING BACK NASSAU COUNTY

                    WITHIN THIS BUDGET?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  NASSAU COUNTY IS OBLIGATED TO

                    CONTINUE HONORING THOSE BONDS.  AND ANY BOND COUNSEL --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  HOW WOULD YOU CONTROL --

                                 MR. LAVINE: -- WHO WOULD TELL YOU DIFFERENTLY --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  HOW WOULD YOU --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I'M SORRY.  I'M SORRY.  THIS IS LIKE

                    WE'RE MARRIED.  I DON'T GET TO FINISH A SENTENCE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  BUT WE GET TO ASK

                    AND ANSWER.  THE STENOGRAPHER HAS TO KEEP UP WITH YOU SO I NEED YOU

                    TO ASK, STOP, ANSWER.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I'VE STOPPED.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  BUT THAT IS WITHOUT THE COUNTY

                                         276



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    HAVING CONTROL AND, YOU KNOW, WITH YOUR OTHER THING, I'VE BEEN TALKING

                    ON -- ON THIS FLOOR ON YEARS -- FOR YEARS REGARDING HOW THE STATE HAS

                    DEFUNDED THE HOSPITAL AND JUST NOW THERE IS ACTUALLY A LAWSUIT BECAUSE

                    FEDERAL MONEY HASN'T BEEN GIVEN -- UP TO THE TUNE OF $1 BILLION.  SO WE

                    COULD ALSO SAY THAT THE STATE HAS ALSO HELPED CAUSE THIS ISSUE WITH

                    NASSAU UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER AND NOW YOU WANT TO TAKE IT ON

                    OVER CLAIMING MISMANAGEMENT WHICH THE STATE HAS A PARTIAL

                    RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS AS WELL.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  SO TO THE EXTENT I COULD HEAR WHAT

                    YOU SAID, I STILL WILL MAINTAIN, AS WOULD ANY RESPONSIBLE BOND COUNSEL,

                    THAT WITHOUT A DRAMATIC CHANGE IN THE MANAGEMENT OF THAT HOSPITAL,

                    ANY BONDS ISSUED IN THE -- IN THE FUTURE ARE GOING TO BE SOLD AT A VERY

                    UNATTRACTIVE RATE OF INTEREST.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WE'RE NOT HERE TO DEBATE RIGHT NOW

                    THE CURRENT MANAGEMENT OF THE HOSPITAL.  I MEAN I WOULD DISAGREE WITH

                    YOU ON SOME POINT BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE THAT IN THE PAST FEW YEARS THE

                    FINANCES HAVE GOTTEN BETTER AT THAT HOSPITAL WITHOUT CURRENT STATE AID,

                    SO I THINK YOUR CHARACTERIZATION IS A LITTLE BIT MISLEADING, BUT THAT BEING

                    SAID, I DO NOT CONTINUE TO YIELD, SO THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  SO, MR. MIKULIN AND MY COLLEAGUE, I

                    UNDERSTAND WHY THERE IS NO DESIRE TO DEBATE WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE

                    PAST AT THAT HOSPITAL, BUT I WILL --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. MIKULIN, DO

                    YOU STOP YIELDING?

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  YES.

                                         277



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  OKAY.

                                 THANK YOU, MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. RA, WHY DO YOU RISE?

                                 MR. RA:  I OBJECT TO -- AS A POINT OF ORDER I OBJECT TO

                    THE CHARACTERIZATION BY MR. LAVINE THAT WE'RE NOT INTERESTED IN

                    DEBATING.  WE'VE HAD THREE MEMBERS YIELD TO YOUR QUESTIONS DURING THE

                    COURSE OF THIS DEBATE.  SO I THINK CLEARLY WE'RE WILLING TO DEBATE.  IT'S

                    THIS SIDE OF THE AISLE AND THE GOVERNOR WHO IS NOT WILLING TO DEBATE,

                    WON'T ENGAGE WITH THE HOSPITAL IN ANY CONVERSATIONS.  IT'S FALSE TO SAY

                    THAT THEY HAVE MET WITH THEM.  THEY HAVE REFUSED TO, AND THIS WAS

                    HATCHED OUT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, SO WHO'S NOT WILLING TO DEBATE THE

                    FUTURE OF THE HOSPITAL?  I -- I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WILL -- WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR

                    JUST A FEW MORE QUESTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MIKULIN.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  ALL RIGHT.  SO I'M GOING TO MOVE ON

                    FROM THE BONDING ASPECT AND I WANT TO ASK SO, REGARDING THIS SECTION,

                    SO NIFA MAY IMPOSE A CONTROL PERIOD OVER THE CORPORATION; IS THAT

                    CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I BELIEVE SO, YES.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WHAT WOULD THAT CONTROL TIME

                    PERIOD LOOK LIKE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'LL BE DETERMINED BUT AT A LATER

                    DATE.

                                         278



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WHO CONTROLS NIFA, TO YOUR

                    KNOWLEDGE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THE GOVERNOR.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  THE GOVERNOR.  SO SHE

                    APPOINTMENTS MEMBERS, RIGHT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  SEVEN MEMBERS.  WHY ARE THOSE

                    MEMBERS QUALIFIED TO OVERSEE THE HOSPITAL, HOW?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  PROBABLY BY THEIR EDUCATION, THEIR

                    BACKGROUND AND THEIR EXPERIENCES IN LIFE.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  AND HOW IS IT THAT ANY OF THEM HAVE

                    ANY QUALIFICATIONS IN RUNNING A HOSPITAL IN HEALTH CARE?  SO IT'S JUST...

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, NIFA CAN ALREADY OVERSEE

                    THE HOSPITAL.  THAT'S NOT -- THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WELL, NIFA --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE QUALIFICATIONS

                    --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  YEAH, I GUESS --

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- OF BOARD MEMBERS.  AND WHAT

                    I'VE HAVE BEEN HEARING, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE -- WITH THE HEALTH

                    CENTER IN NASSAU, BUT WHAT I'VE HEARD WITH THE DEBATE SO FAR IS THAT THE

                    BOARD MEMBERS AND THE PERSON THAT WAS LEADING THE HOSPITAL WERE

                    TOTALLY UN -- UNQUALIFIED TO DO THE JOBS THAT THEY WERE ASSIGNED TO DO.

                    SO WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS UNDER THIS PROPOSAL --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WELL, I WOULD SAY --

                                         279



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- THE GOVERNOR IS --

                                 MR. MIKULIN: -- THAT'S A MISCHARACTERIZATION SO...

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WHAT IS?

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  A LOT OF THAT IS A

                    MISCHARACTERIZATION, BUT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I DON'T -- I DON'T BELIEVE SO. NO.  I

                    STARTED ASKING A QUESTION BEFORE MR. LAVINE GOT UP AND I'M JUST ASKING

                    BY A SHOW OF HANDS HOW MANY INDIVIDUALS IN THIS ROOM HAVE HEALTH

                    INSURANCE THROUGH NIFA, JUST RAISE YOUR HAND.  YOU DON'T HAVE TO IF

                    YOU DON'T WANT TO.  BUT IF YOU DO YOU ARE PAYING 4 PERCENT MORE ON

                    YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE EVERY PAY PERIOD BECAUSE NASSAU COUNTY IS NOT

                    PAYING $400 MILLION THAT THEY OWE --

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  THAT'S NOT TRUE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT IS TRUE.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  THERE IS A CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION

                    WITH NYSHA AND THE HOSPITAL HAS BEEN PAYING THAT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  NO, THEY HAVEN'T.

                                 MR. MIKULIN: -- PER MONTH.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THEY'RE SELLING YOU A BILL OF GOODS,

                    SIR.  THEY'RE NOT DOING A THING.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WITH -- WITH -- WITH ALL DUE RESPECT I

                    DISAGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THIS IS A DRASTIC STEP THAT WE'RE

                    TAKING, BUT THEY'RE LOSING LIKE $100 MILLION A MONTH.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  BUT HASN'T IT ALSO BEEN ADDRESSED

                                         280



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    EXCEPT THAT WE HAVE BEEN DEFUNDING THE HOSPITAL FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS

                    WITHOUT PROVIDING THEM WITH ANY STATE AID?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE HAVEN'T BEEN COMPLYING WITH

                    WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLYING TO TO RECEIVE THOSE FUNDS.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  WELL, THERE IS A $40 MILLION DISH

                    PAYMENT RIGHT NOW THAT HASN'T BEEN PAID OUT TO THE HOSPITAL THAT WAS

                    GIVEN BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BUT HAS BEEN GIVEN FOR EVERY SINGLE

                    OTHER HOSPITAL.  WHY IS THAT?  WHY HAVEN'T THEY RECEIVED THE $40

                    MILLION IN -- IN FEDERAL AID THEN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  OKAY.  THE -- THE -- THE COUNTY

                    PUTS UP THE SHARE, NOT THE -- NOT THE STATE.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  SO HOW WOULD THE COUNTY PUT UP --

                    SO THE COUNTY'S RECEIVING THE MONEY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO

                    GIVE TO THE HOSPITAL THEN?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  THAT'S -- THAT'S NOT THE WAY I --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT'S CALLED AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL

                    TRANSFER.  IGT, NOT THE SLOT MACHINES.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  I BELIEVE THAT THE COUNTY HAS MAXED

                    OUT ON THEIR PAYMENTS TO THE HOSPITAL.  WHAT IS THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO,

                    BUT ANYWAY...

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. MIKULIN:  IT SEEMS TO ME THAT ONCE AGAIN THIS

                    BODY IS PLAYING POLITICS WITH THE HOSPITAL.  FOR YEARS I HAVE BEEN

                                         281



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    STANDING HERE DEBATING AND ASKING FOR FUNDING FOR THIS STATE HOSPITAL.

                    THERE IS NO PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFITS CORPORATION THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO --

                    TO OPERATE IN THE GREEN.  THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS THAT COME TO THIS

                    HOSPITAL EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT INSURANCE AND THE HOSPITAL HAS TO

                    TREAT THEM.  THEREFORE, WITHOUT FUNDING FROM THE STATE GOVERNMENT,

                    THIS HOSPITAL CANNOT OPERATE.  WHAT THE STATE HAS DONE HERE IS THEY

                    HAVE CAUSED AN ISSUE AND NOW ARE COMING IN FOR A TAKEOVER ON ONE OF

                    THE ISSUES THAT THEY HAVE HELPED CREATE.  I KNOW FOR A FACT THE GOVERNOR

                    HAS BEEN INVITED TO NUMC AND THE GOVERNOR HAS NEVER STEPPED FOOT IN

                    THAT HOSPITAL, EVEN THOUGH ON THE DATE WHERE SHE WAS INVITED SHE WAS

                    SIMPLY RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD.  WHAT HAS GONE ON HERE TODAY IS NOTHING

                    BUT POLITICS.  POLITICS-DRIVEN, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SUPPORT.  THAT

                    HOSPITAL PROVIDES A GREAT BURN UNIT.  IT PROVIDES A NUMBER ONE TRAUMA

                    CENTER.  IT PROVIDES THE COMMUNITY WITH GREAT SERVICES AND PROVIDES

                    THE PEOPLE OF THE COMMUNITY WITH JOBS, BUSINESSES AND LIFESAVING

                    TREATMENT.

                                 WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE RIGHT NOW IS A DISTRACTION, AND

                    IT IS ONE FUELED BY SIMPLY POLITICS NOT HELPING.  THE COUNTY IS THE PARTY

                    THAT SHOULD BE PICKING THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD BECAUSE THEY ARE THE

                    ONES THAT PUT UP THE FINANCES AND THAT IS THE GOVERNMENT THAT IS CLOSELY

                    RELATED TO THE -- THE -- THE PEOPLE.  THERE SHOULD BE LOCAL CONTROL, NOT

                    COMING IN BY THE STATE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                         282



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WOULD THE CHAIR JUST YIELD FOR A QUESTION?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  FOR A QUESTION I HEARD.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  I'LL DO MY BEST, SIR.

                                 CAN YOU ANSWER FOR ME, MR. PRETLOW, WHY PART JJ WAS

                    PUT INTO THE BUDGET?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  REPORTING ON PREGNANCY LOSS, I

                    WANT TO YIELD TO MS. PAULIN.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WE PUT LOTS OF POLICY IN THE BUDGET

                    AND THIS RELATES TO AN UPDATE IN TERMS OF TECHNOLOGY AND THAT WAS COST

                    AND SO IT WAS TIED TOGETHER.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WHO REQUESTED THIS TO GO -- BE

                    PUT IN THE BUDGET?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I BELIEVE ORIGINALLY THE SENATE HAD IT

                    IN THEIR ONE-HOUSE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  AND HOW ABOUT FROM THE

                    ASSEMBLY SIDE?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WE DID NOT HAVE IT IN OUR ONE-HOUSE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  AND THEN, CAN I ASK

                    YOU MORE THAN ONE QUESTION?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SURE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  ALL RIGHT, THANKS.  THANK YOU.

                                 I WAS JUST WONDERING AS I READ THROUGH THE BILL TEXT A

                                         283



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    LITTLE BIT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MISCARRIAGE AND STILLBIRTH.  THEY SHALL

                    BE REGISTERED WITHIN 72 HOURS OF THAT HAPPENING TO THE STATE DOH,

                    CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  AND INDUCED TERMINATION OF

                    PREGNANCY, THE MOTHER HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO NOT DO THAT; IS THAT

                    CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  WELL, WHY IS THAT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  BECAUSE IT'S INFORMATION THAT ISN'T

                    NEEDED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE

                    OF A STILLBIRTH OR A MISCARRIAGE INFORMATION THEN?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SO THAT'S DATA THAT'S USED FOR THE

                    PURPOSES OF VITAL RECORDS FOR LIKE OTHER REPORTED TYPES OF MEDICAL

                    PROCEDURES.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SO YOU DON'T FEEL THAT INDUCED

                    TERMINATION IS A VITAL RECORD?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  IT'S GATHERED -- THE INFORMATION THAT --

                    IT WAS GATHERED DIFFERENTLY, SO FOR STILLBORNS, FOR THAT -- FOR THE TWO THAT

                    YOU MENTIONED --

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  SURE.

                                 MS. PAULIN: -- IT WAS DONE OR IS DONE ELECTRONICALLY

                    AND EASY.  FOR -- FOR -- FOR TERMINATING A PREGNANCY, IT WAS DONE ON

                    PAPER, AND THE PAPER WAS OFTEN PIECES OF IT WOULD GET LOST AND YOU

                                         284



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WOULDN'T BE ABLE OFTEN TO SEE, BECAUSE IT WAS OLD-FASHIONED IN THAT IT

                    WAS -- IT WAS -- I CAN'T EVEN THINK OF THE WORD ANYMORE IT'S SO OLD --

                    CARBON, YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO GET TO THE BOTTOM.  SO BY THE TIME IT GOT

                    TO WHERE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE YOU OFTEN COULDN'T EVEN TELL WHAT THE

                    INFORMATION WAS ABOUT.  SO -- AND OFTEN PROVIDERS JUST DIDN'T BOTHER

                    SENDING IT IN SO IT WASN'T A REAL GOOD PIECE OF INFORMATION ANYWAY AND

                    THAT DATA IS COLLECTED ALREADY BY OTHER GROUPS SO THAT'S MUCH MORE --

                    THE INFORMATION THAT THEY COLLECT IS JUST MUCH MORE ACCURATE SO IT

                    WOULD SEEM -- IT SEEMED DUPLICATIVE.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  I'M NOT SURE WHAT

                    CARBON PAPER IS.  NO, I'M JUST KIDDING.

                                 (LAUGHTER)

                                 I DO KNOW WHAT IT IS.

                                 MY LAST QUESTION ON PART JJ.  SO IF AN INDIVIDUAL

                    COMES INTO OUR STATE FOR A INDUCED TERMINATION OF AN ABORTION.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  RIGHT.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  DO THEY HAVE THE SAME

                    OPPORTUNITY TO REGISTER AS WELL?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SO THE REGISTRATION WOULD HAPPEN IF

                    YOU WANTED TO BURY OR CREMATE THE -- THE FETUS.  OTHERWISE, YOU

                    WOULDN'T HAVE TO REGISTER, THAT'S THE POINT, YOU KNOW, OR PART OF THE

                    POINT HERE.  SO, SO YES.  THEY WOULD HAVE THAT SAME OPPORTUNITY TO

                    REGISTER, I WOULD ASSUME, IF THEY COULD FIND A FUNERAL DIRECTOR THAT'S

                    WILLING TO CREMATE OR BURY THE -- THE FETUS.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  OKAY.  I THANK YOU FOR YOUR

                                         285



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    TIME IN ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

                                 MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. MANKTELOW:  THANK YOU.

                                 AGAIN, WE HAVE POLICY IN THE BUDGET, SOMETHING THAT I

                    DO NOT AGREE WITH.  I UNDERSTAND HOW IT GETS IN THERE.  I REALLY WISH IT

                    WASN'T IN THERE.  IT'S THE TENTH HOUR AT, YOU KNOW, 9:00 AT NIGHT ON OUR

                    FIRST NIGHT OF BUDGET DEBATES AND WE JUST GOT THIS WITHIN 24 HOURS, I'D

                    LIKE TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE TIME BUT THE -- THE SPONSOR DID ANSWER MY

                    QUESTIONS, WHICH I APPRECIATE.  JUST -- JUST TO PIGGYBACK ON SOME OF THE

                    OTHER SITUATIONS -- OR TOPICS TONIGHT ABOUT THE HOSPITAL.

                                 WE ALL KNOW SINCE POST-COVID THAT OUR HOSPITALS

                    HAVE STRUGGLED. THEY HAVE STRUGGLED IN BUFFALO.  THEY HAVE STRUGGLED

                    IN ROCHESTER, IN SYRACUSE.  OUR SMALL, LOCAL HOSPITALS ARE STRUGGLING,

                    AND I HEAR BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN NASSAU COUNTY

                    WITH THAT HOSPITAL.  I HOPE WITH A QUARTER OF A TRILLION DOLLAR BUDGET THAT

                    WE CAN HELP EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE HOSPITALS TO BE SUCCESSFUL,

                    BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW EVERYONE DOESN'T DO THINGS EXACTLY RIGHT.  AND I

                    KNOW ON THIS ASSEMBLY FLOOR, ON MY SEVENTH YEAR, HOW MUCH MONEY

                    WE HAVE PUT TO THE MTA OVER THESE SEVEN YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN HERE AND

                    WE ALL KNOW THAT THE MTA COULD BE RUN MUCH BETTER, SERVICING THE

                    PEOPLE OF THE CITY MUCH BETTER, BUT WE CONSTANTLY KICK DOLLARS TO THE

                    MTA.  I HOPE AS A SOCIETY WE'RE WILLING TO KICK THOSE DOLLARS TO PEOPLE

                    THAT ABSOLUTELY NEED THE HELP; OUR LOW INCOME FAMILIES, OUR FAMILIES OF

                    BROWN AND BLACK COMMUNITIES, PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE EVERYTHING.

                                         286



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHEN THEY GO TO THIS HOSPITAL AND THEY'RE REQUIRED TO TAKE CARE OF THESE

                    INDIVIDUALS THEY ARE.  AND AS A BUSINESSMAN, IF THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY

                    YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE MONEY.  SO I HOPE THAT WE AS A ASSEMBLY

                    CHAMBER CAN SUPPORT THE NASSAU COUNTY HOSPITAL, AS WELL AS ALL OF OUR

                    HOSPITALS ACROSS THE STATE.

                                 SO MADAM SPEAKER, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SAY

                    A FEW WORDS.  MUCH APPRECIATED.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. NORBER.

                                 MR. NORBER:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE CHAIR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MR. NORBER:  I PROMISE TO KEEP THIS SORT OF SWEET

                    AND HOPEFULLY I'LL GET THIS DONE (INDISCERNIBLE).

                                 SO UNDER THIS LEGISLATION THE GOVERNOR WILL DESIGNATE

                    THE CHAIR FOR THE BOARD, CORRECT?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH NASSAU

                    COUNTY HOSPITAL?

                                 MR. NORBER:  YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M YIELDING ALL QUESTIONS, FURTHER

                    QUESTIONS TO MR. LAVINE TO ANSWER.

                                 MR. NORBER:  SERIOUSLY?  I DON'T YIELD, IT'S REALLY

                                         287



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    QUICK, DON'T WORRY.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WELL, MAKE IT AS QUICK AS YOU WANT --

                                 MR. NORBER:  OY VEY.

                                 MR. LAVINE: -- OR AS SLOW AS YOU WANT.

                                 MR. NORBER:  OKAY.  SO IS THE GOVERNOR REQUIRED

                    TO APPOINT THE CHAIR FROM NASSAU COUNTY?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THE CHAIR OF THE BOARD WOULD BE

                    DESIGNATED BY THE GOVERNOR, RATHER THAN OUR COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

                                 MR. NORBER:  AND DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE -- THE

                    CHAIR SHOULD BE A COUNTY -- A NASSAU COUNTY RESIDENT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  NINE OF THE 11 ON THAT BOARD, WHICH

                    IS A PRETTY GOOD PERCENTAGE, WILL BE NASSAU COUNTY RESIDENTS.

                                 MR. NORBER:  BUT THE CHAIR HIMSELF, DO YOU

                    BELIEVE, I'M ASKING YOU, THAT THE PERSON SHOULD BE A RESIDENT FROM

                    NASSAU COUNTY?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MY FRIEND, I COULD CARE LESS WHERE

                    THAT PERSON RESIDES.

                                 MR. NORBER:  OKAY.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS WHAT WE SHOULD

                    ALL CARE ABOUT, WHICH IS THAT THAT PERSON IS SOMEONE WHO IS COMPETENT

                    TO HANDLE THAT POSITION.  AND BECAUSE THAT HAS NOT BEEN THE CASE WE ARE

                    NOW DISCUSSING THIS THIS EVENING.

                                 MR. NORBER:  DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE CURRENT

                    HEALTH COMMISSIONER, IS HE COMPETENT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I'M SORRY.  CAN YOU REPEAT THAT?

                                         288



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. NORBER:  DO YOU BELIEVE -- THE CURRENT HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT HE'S COMPETENT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I'M SORRY.  THE CURRENT?

                                 MR. NORBER:  HEALTH COMMISSIONER, NASSAU

                    COUNTY.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THE NASSAU COUNTY HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER?

                                 MR. NORBER:  YES.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I DON'T KNOW THE NASSAU COUNTY

                    HEALTH COMMISSIONER.  I'VE KNOWN SEVERAL OF THE PREVIOUS NASSAU

                    COUNTY HEALTH COMMISSIONERS, BUT I DON'T KNOW THIS ONE.

                                 MR. NORBER:  OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH.  ALL RIGHT.  IN THE

                    PROVISIONS INCLUDED IN THE BILL, THIS REMOVES THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE

                    FROM THE CHAIR AND CO SELECTION PROCESS.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YES, TO A SUBSTANTIAL EXTENT --

                                 MR. NORBER:  RIGHT, RIGHT.

                                 MR. LAVINE: -- A VERY SUBSTANTIAL EXTENT.

                                 MR. NORBER:  SO WHAT IS THE RATIONALE FOR SUCH A

                    SIGNIFICANT LIMITATION ON THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE'S ABILITY?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THE --

                                 MR. NORBER:  THIS LIMITATION.  WHAT'S THE RATIONALE

                    BEHIND IT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAD THE

                    OPPORTUNITY TO APPOINT THE PREVIOUS CHAIR.  THAT'S THE GUY WHOSE HOUSE

                    WAS BURGLARIZED.  THAT'S ALSO THE GUY, MR. NORBER, WHO WAS FINED A

                                         289



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS BY THE SEC AND CENSURED IN 2023.  SO I'M

                    NOT SO SURE THAT THAT WAS SUCH A -- A WISE CHOICE FOR APPOINTMENT.

                                 MR. NORBER:  OKAY.  DR. CALNAN (PHONETIC) RIGHT

                    NOW IS THE (INDISCERNIBLE), IS IN CHARGE, WHY IS HE NOT --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I -- I'M SORRY.  WE CAN'T HEAR WHAT

                    YOU'RE SAYING.

                                 MR. NORBER:  MR. -- DR. CALNAN RIGHT NOW, WHY IS

                    NOT COMPETENT RIGHT NOW IN YOUR OPINION?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I RESPONDED TO YOU.  I HAVE -- I HAVE

                    NO IDEA.  I -- I -- I DON'T KNOW THE DOCTOR.

                                 MR. NORBER:  OKAY.  SO WHY IS THIS NECESSARY?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  THE NASSAU COUNTY -- NASSAU

                    UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER SHOULD HAVE DONE WHAT EVERY RESPONSIBLE

                    HOSPITAL DOES.  ACTUALLY, WHAT EVERY RESPONSIBLE EVEN SCHOOL BOARD

                    DOES WHEN THEY NEED A SUPER -- A NEW SUPERINTENDENT, YOU CONDUCT A

                    PROFESSIONAL SEARCH AND YOU LOOK FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS GOT EXPERTISE

                    IN MANAGEMENT OF HOSPITALS, AND YOU LOOK FOR SOMEONE, MY FRIEND,

                    WHO HAS CREDIBILITY.  NOW, THAT OBVIOUSLY DID NOT OCCUR, DID IT?

                                 MR. NORBER:  OKAY.  OKAY.  JUST LAST QUESTION.

                    WHAT OTHER PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFITS CORPORATIONS IS THERE WHERE THE STATE

                    AND SPECIFICALLY THE GOVERNOR APPOINTS THE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS OF

                    THE BOARD?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I -- I DON'T KNOW BUT I LIKE THAT

                    QUESTION BUT I -- I DON'T THINK THAT QUESTION IS TERRIBLY RELEVANT TO THE

                    CONDITION OF THE NASSAU UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER.

                                         290



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. NORBER:  OKAY, BUT SPECIFICALLY

                    (INDISCERNIBLE) RIGHT NOW ABOUT THE -- THIS SITUATION, CORRECT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND THAT'S -- THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE

                    DOING.

                                 MR. NORBER:  OKAY.  SO DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHY

                    YOU THINK THAT NASSAU COUNTY IS BEING TREATED DIFFERENTLY AT THIS TIME?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  NASSAU COUNTY HAS HAD EVERY

                    OPPORTUNITY TO HELP ITSELF TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS HOSPITAL AND THE

                    NURSING HOME ARE ABLE TO FUNCTION.  NASSAU COUNTY HAS ABDICATED THAT

                    RESPONSIBILITY LEAVING US WITH THE QUESTION, WHAT DO WE DO?  WE JUST

                    LET THIS PLACE CONTINUE TO DETERIORATE?  I'M NOT WILLING TO DO THAT.

                    PERHAPS SOME ARE.

                                 MR. NORBER:  OKAY.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YOU'RE WELCOME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN.

                                 MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  THANK YOU,

                    MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 WE APPRECIATE THE LEADERSHIP OF OUR SPEAKER, CARL

                    HEASTIE --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ARE YOU ON THE BILL?

                                 MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  ON THE BILL, SORRY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MS. CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  ON THE BILL.

                    THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                         291



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 WE APPRECIATE THE LEADERSHIP OF OUR SPEAKER, CARL

                    HEASTIE, HIS TEAM, WAYS AND MEANS AND OUR CHAIR ON MENTAL HEALTH

                    ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON.

                                 SINCE TAKING OFFICE I CREATED AN (INDISCERNIBLE) MENTAL

                    TASK FORCE, AND WE -- AND WE APPRECIATE THE VITAL VOICES OF THE

                    ADVOCATES AND PEERS.  ALSO A PROUD SHARE OF THE MENTAL HEALTH

                    COMMITTEE ON THE BLACK LEGISLATIVE FORCE AND I HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS

                    WITH -- LIVING WITH MENTAL HEALTH CONDITIONS.  WE HAVE ADVOCATED A

                    BUDGET THAT MEETS THE NEEDS OF ALL NEW YORKERS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT

                    COMES TO A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS.  THIS BUDGET IS A STEP TOWARDS

                    ADJUSTING SOME IMPORTANT PROTECTIONS FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH MENTAL

                    HEALTH CONDITIONS, AND OF COURSE THERE IS MORE THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE

                    TO BUILD ON.  WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE A PERSON CENTER, HAVE PEERS

                    AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE CONVERSATION, CULTURALLY COMPETENT AND

                    INTENTIONAL WITH DISCHARGE PLANNING.  SOME HIGHLIGHTS IN THIS BUDGET

                    INCLUDES ENSURING IMPROVED AND MORE EXTENSIVE DISCHARGE PLANNING

                    REQUIRES THAT THE PATIENT BEING RELEASED BE GIVEN RELEVANT TREATMENT,

                    RECOMMENDATIONS, REFERRAL TO OUTPATIENT SERVICES AND FOLLOW THROUGH

                    WITHIN A WEEK TO ENSURE THAT THE PATIENTS HAVE APPOINTMENTS SET UP FOR

                    POST-DISCHARGE TREATMENT.  WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT FAMILIES AND THEIR

                    SUPPORTIVE TEAM IS NOTIFIED WHEN DISCHARGE HAPPEN [SIC] AND IS

                    INCLUDED INTENTIONALLY.  WE ALSO NEED A PLAN FOR THOSE THAT ARE

                    DISCHARGED UNDER 72 HOURS.  WE ALSO NEED AND WE AGREE THE NEED OF

                    ADDITIONAL COLLABORATION STAKEHOLDERS TO PROVIDE FOR STRATEGIC STRATEGIES

                    TO ADDRESS MISFACTORS DEALING WITH VIOLENCE IF THEY ARE PRESENT.  THOSE

                                         292



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHO HAVE INTENSIVE, COMPLEX NEEDS MUST HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE

                    SERVICE PLAN AND DISCHARGE SUMMARIES AND WRITTEN TO THE PATIENT AND

                    THE FACILITATION OF REFERRALS AT TIME OF DISCHARGE.  COMMUNICATION TO

                    THOSE WHO WILL BE PROVIDING POST-DISCHARGE CARE IN THE COMMUNITY

                    INCLUDING INTENSIVE CARE MANAGER FOR THE INDIVIDUAL AND THEIR CHILDREN

                    IF THEY HAVE.  COORDINATION REFERRALS TO LOCAL COMMUNITY-BASED CULTURAL

                    RELEVANT AND PEER-BASED PROGRAMS. WE KNOW INDIVIDUALS WITH LIVED

                    EXPERIENCE ARE PROVEN TO BE VERY HELPFUL IN RESTORING IN ONE'S HEALING.

                    WITH MANDATED INCIDENT REVIEW PANELS, WE ARE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND AND

                    LEARN THROUGH ASSESSMENTS OF WHAT WORK WELL AND WHAT DIDN'T GO SO

                    WELL WHEN THERE'S A PUBLIC INCIDENT INVOLVING A PERSON EXPERIENCING

                    EMOTIONAL CRISIS AND WE DEVELOP COMMON SENSE POLICY THAT IS

                    WELL-INFORMED.

                                 THIS WILL BE THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE PASSAGE OF THIS BILL

                    IN 2014, SO I'M HAPPY ABOUT THAT.  THE ESTABLISHMENT OF BEHAVIORAL

                    HEALTH TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE CENTERED TO BE A CURATOR OF BEST PRACTICES,

                    ASSIST LOCAL AGENCIES AND IMPLEMENTATION OF MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS

                    AND FACILITATE PUBLIC EDUCATION INFORMATION AND TRAINING.  THIS WILL

                    ALSO EXPAND THE USE OF EFFECTIVE PROGRAMS SUCH AS CLUBHOUSES

                    (INDISCERNIBLE) AND ACT TEAMS.  WE NEED MORE THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

                    WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT FINANCIAL ASSISTANT [SIC] IS GIVEN, ESPECIALLY TO

                    LOCAL GROUPS TO ENSURE THIS IS SUCCESSFUL.  WE KNOW DANIEL'S LAW BEING

                    FULLY PASSED AND FUNDED IS OUR ULTIMATE GOAL.  HOWEVER, IN THIS BUDGET,

                    IT WILL EXPLORE PILOT PROGRAMS FOR THE PROPER RESPONSE TO MENTAL HEALTH

                    CRISIS.  WE HOPE THAT WE UTILIZE THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE REPORT

                                         293



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    CREATED BY THE AMAZING DANIEL'S LAW TASK FORCE.  ONCE AGAIN, WE ARE

                    ASK -- WE ASK FOR A NON (INDISCERNIBLE).  MY COLLEAGUE HERE, MR.

                    O'PHARROW, A RETIRED DETECTIVE DID AN OP-ED QUALIFYING THAT THIS POINT

                    THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS NOT TRAINED OR IS THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE TO

                    INDIVIDUAL [SIC] IN CRISIS, WHICH LEAD [SIC] ME INTO MY NEXT POINT.

                    INVOLUNTARY COMMITMENT IS NOT A HOLISTIC WAY TO SUPPORT PERSON'S

                    EXPERIENCE IN EMOTIONAL CRISIS.  WE NEED MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS

                    RESPONDING AND ASSESSING OUR LOVED ONES IN NEED.  OUR COMMUNITIES

                    AND I ARE CONCERNED THAT WE ARE CODIFYING INTO STATE LAW A

                    (INDISCERNIBLE) THAT HAS BEEN USED IN THE CITY THAT WAS UNSUCCESSFUL

                    BECAUSE LAW ENFORCEMENT SHOULD NOT BE THE ONES RESPONDING AND DO

                    NOT WANT TO RESPOND.  MENTAL HEALTH ILLNESS IS NOT A CRIME.  LAW

                    ENFORCEMENT WILL NEVER BE TRAINED CLINICIANS AND HAVE -- AND HAVING

                    THEM BE FIRST RESPONDERS AND FACILITATE TRANSPORTING (INDISCERNIBLE) TO

                    CRISIS TO HOSPITALS CAN GO SO WRONG AS WE HAVE MANY EXAMPLES LIKE

                    DANIEL PRUDE, OR IN MY DISTRICT SHAHEED VISAL (PHONETIC).

                                 WITH THE LACK OF BEDS, ESPECIALLY CO -- OCCURRING

                    CONDITIONS WHEN IT COMES TO SUBSTANCE ABUSE ALONG WITH MENTAL HEALTH

                    AND LACK OF HOUSING, SUPPORTIVE HOUSING, WHERE DO INDIVIDUALS GO

                    WHEN THEY ARE DISCHARGED?  WE NEED TRUE INVESTMENTS IN PERMANENT,

                    SUPPORTIVE HOUSING TO ENSURE THOSE WHO ARE UNHOUSED CAN GET PROPER

                    SUPPORT WHILE HAVING A STABLE LIVING CONDITION.  A PERSON SHOULD NOT

                    BE FORCED INTO TREATMENT.  TREATMENT SHOULD BE MORE ACCESSIBLE AND

                    VOLUNTARY.  THIS PRACTICE OF COERCION CAUSES MORE DISTRUST AND TRAUMA.

                    THE PRESENT [SIC] OF LAW ENFORCEMENT DOES NOT DEESCALATE, IT ESCALATES

                                         294



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE SITUATION.  WE NEED TO FOCUS ON MORE INVESTMENT ON VOLUNTARY

                    WRAPAROUND SERVICES BEING READILY AVAILABLE AND INTENTIONAL, ESPECIALLY

                    IN THE BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES.  WE NEED TO CREATE A REAL

                    INTENTIONAL EFFORT TO ADDRESS THE MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.  AS I SAY THERE ARE

                    SOME STEPS IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION; HOWEVER, THERE'S MORE TO BE DONE,

                    THERE'S MORE AGENCIES TO BE INVOLVED.  NYPD CANNOT BE OVERUSE [SIC]

                    IN THESE SITUATION [SIC].  THEY NEED TO BE SUP -- SUPPORTING THOSE WHO

                    ARE -- THAT ARE VICTIMS AND WHEN CRIMES ARE COMMITTED.

                                 THANK YOU VOTE.  I WILL VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND

                    BEG WE CONTINUE TO BUILD ON THIS LEGISLATION.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  MR. [SIC] SPEAKER, WILL THE

                    SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, I WILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS

                    ABOUT PART LL AGAIN.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M YIELDING ALL QUESTIONS ON LL TO

                    MR. LAVINE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  OKAY.  MR. LAVINE, WOULD

                    YOU YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YES.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  MR. LAVINE, IS THERE ANY

                    ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE $1 BILLION MEDICAID SHORTFALL THAT WE'VE SEEN FOR

                                         295



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THIS HOSPITAL?  HAVE WE SEEN ANY -- ANY RECOURSE THAT WE'LL SEE COMING

                    FORWARD WITH THIS RECEIVERSHIP THAT THEY'RE CREATING?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I'M SORRY.  IS THERE ANY

                    ACCOUNTABILITY?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WILL -- WILL THERE BE ANY

                    METRICS OF ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE $1 BILLION SHORTFALL THAT HAS LED THIS

                    HOSPITAL DOWN THIS DIRECTION?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND SO -- AND LET ME ASK YOU, MR.

                    BLUMENCRANZ, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WHAT IS THE MEDICAID SHORTFALL?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WHAT IS IT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YEAH.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  YOU'VE BEEN HERE FOR 20

                    YEARS.  THIS HOSPITAL'S BEEN SUFFERING FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE

                    YEARS.  IT HAS BEEN A COLOSSAL BURDEN NOT ONLY ON THE ENTIRE NASSAU

                    COUNTY HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE, BUT ALSO SPECIFICALLY ON THIS

                    HOSPITAL.  SO YOU TELL ME.  YOU THINK THERE'S NO -- THEY'RE JUST -- THEY'RE

                    GETTING THEIR REIMBURSEMENTS JUST FINE?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MR. BLUMENCRANZ, THANK YOU FOR

                    CREDITING ME WITH MY POLITICAL LONGEATIVITY-- LONGEVITY IN A COUNTY

                    WHICH -- IN WHICH MANY OF MY VIEWS ARE NOT SHARED BY THE FOLKS WHO

                    -- WHO RULE THERE, BUT ANY SHORTFALL HAS BEEN THE FAULT OF THE HOSPITAL

                    ITSELF.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO IN THE PREVIOUS

                    ADMINISTRATION I THINK WHAT WAS IN THE OTHER DEBATE YOU SAID, YOU

                    NEEDED AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS REAL EXPERIENCE RUNNING A HOSPITAL,

                                         296



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    RIGHT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YES.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  THE INDIVIDUAL WHO RAN THE

                    HOSPITAL PREVIOUSLY, WHAT -- WHAT WAS HIS EXPERIENCE RUNNING HOSPITALS

                    --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MR. -- MR. SUNEZ (PHONETIC) WHO WAS

                    A FORMER --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  AMBASSADOR.

                                 MR. LAVINE: -- AMBASSADOR, ALSO RAN A MAJOR, A

                    MAJOR CHAIN OF -- OF HOTELS --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  OH!

                                 MR. LAVINE: -- SO AT LEAST HAD -- MR. BLUMENCRANZ,

                    I DON'T KNOW.  DO YOU WANT TO STOP ME FROM TALKING?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO?  I

                    TRIED TO SPEAK TO THE SPONSOR HERE, BUT HE YIELDED HIS TIME TO YOU.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WELL, MR. BLUMENCRANZ, NASSAU

                    UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER IS CLOSER TO MY HOUSE THAN IT IS TO THE -- THE

                    SPONSOR'S HOUSE.  AND AS YOU KNOW, ALTHOUGH I DON'T BELIEVE YOU WERE

                    EARLIER IN THE DEBATE --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  I WAS LISTENING.

                                 MR. LAVINE: -- I HAVE BEEN IN THAT HOSPITAL VISITING

                    FRIENDS MANY, MANY TIMES.  AND WITH RESPECT TO THE QUALIFICATIONS OF

                    THE PREVIOUS DIRECTOR OF THE HOSPITAL, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THOSE

                    QUALIFICATIONS ARE NOT AS SUBSTANTIAL AS MR. BRUDERMAN'S QUALIFICATIONS?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  I'M ASKING YOU WHERE THE

                                         297



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    OUTRAGE COMES FROM TODAY THAT HASN'T BEEN HERE FOR 20 YEARS AS THIS

                    HOSPITAL'S CONTINUED TO FAIL.  THE STATE HAS SHORTCHANGED THIS PARTICULAR

                    FACILITY 50 PERCENT OF WHAT IT'S OWED IN MEDICAID PAYMENTS OVER THE

                    COURSE OF THE PAST FEW YEARS, BUT NOW --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YOU -- YOU ASK WHERE THE OUTRAGE

                    COMES FROM?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  OH!

                                 MR. LAVINE:  BECAUSE I HAVE --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  THE OUTRAGE TODAY --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I HAVE LIVED IN COMMUNITIES WHERE

                    PEOPLE --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  EXCUSE ME.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WE'RE ASKING AND

                    ANSWERING, PLEASE, GENTLEMEN.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  ARE WE BOTH ASKING OR DO I

                    ASK QUESTIONS OF THE SPONSOR'S ANSWERS?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I -- I WOULD SUGGEST YOU ASK YOUR

                    QUESTIONS THROUGH THE SPEAKER.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  IF YOU DON'T WISH TO ANSWER

                    MY QUESTIONS, MR. LAVINE, THEN I RESPECTFULLY ASK IF THE SPONSOR CAN

                    CONTINUE TO ANSWER THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MR. BLUMENCRANZ, I LIKE THE IDEA OF

                    DIALOGUE.  AND THAT'S WHY I'M SUGGESTING THAT WHATEVER QUESTIONS YOU

                    HAVE, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THAT'S PART OF OUR POLICY, WILL YOU PLEASE

                    POSE THEM THROUGH THE SPEAKER?

                                         298



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  THROUGH YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER, IS THIS ABOUT PATIENTS OR IS IT ABOUT POLITICS?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I HEARD --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WOULD YOU LIKE THE EXERCISE

                    OR WOULD YOU LIKE THE DIALOGUE --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MR. -- MR. BLUMENCRANZ --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  MR. LAVINE...

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MR. BLUMENCRANZ, SOME OF US HAVE

                    LIVED A LIFE'S EXPERIENCE WHERE WE WEREN'T ALWAYS ABLE TO GET MEDICAL

                    CARE AND LIVED IN COMMUNITIES IN WHICH MEDICAL CARE --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  AND THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE AT

                    THIS HOSPITAL --

                                 MR. LAVINE:  AND MAY I --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  AND THE HOSPITAL THAT YOU

                    SAID --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. BLUMENCRANZ,

                    MR. LAVINE, IT IS YOUR TIME, MR. BLUMENCRANZ, YOU CAN CONTINUE TO

                    YIELD YOUR TIME TO MR. LAVINE, YOU COULD GO ON THE BILL, BUT YOU WILL

                    ASK A QUESTION, HE WILL ANSWER THE QUESTION.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  I HAVE NOT YIELDED MY TIME

                    TO MR. LAVINE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  OKAY.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  THE SPONSOR HAS SAID THAT

                    MR. LAVINE WILL BE ANSWERING QUESTIONS ON HIS BEHALF.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THEN YOU WILL WAIT

                                         299



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    FOR HIM TO ASK THE QUESTION, PLEASE, SIR, AND YOU WILL ANSWER AND YOU

                    WILL WAIT FOR THE RESPONSE, PLEASE.  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I BELIEVE THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT

                    TO MEDICAL CARE.  NOT EVERYONE SHARES MY BELIEF.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  THAT THERE HAS BEEN

                    STATEMENTS MADE THAT SERVICE WILL BE CUT FROM THE VERY PEOPLE YOU

                    CLAIM DESERVE HEALTH CARE WHO CAN'T AFFORD IT.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I DON'T --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WHAT -- WHAT HEALTH CARE'S

                    ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK, MR. LAVINE?  YOU THINK WE NEED THE CHANGE, A

                    CHANGE THAT WILL INVOLVE A REMOVAL OF HEALTHCARE SERVICES TO RESIDENTS

                    OF NASSAU COUNTY?  THAT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD IDEA?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MR. BLUMENCRANZ, I THINK WE MAY

                    COMMUNICATE BETTER IF WE AREN'T QUITE SO BOISTEROUS, BUT I DON'T LIVE IN

                    BUBBLE AND I AM FEARFUL OF WHAT IS GOING TO OCCUR IN THE MONTHS TO

                    COME AS A RESULT OF A POLITICAL -- A POLITICAL PARTY RUNNING THE UNITED

                    STATES WHICH DOESN'T SHARE MY BELIEF IN THE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO

                    MEDICAL CARE.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  MR. LAVINE, WHEN THERE WAS

                    OVER 2,000 SUBPOENAS PROVIDED FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO THE

                    ADMINISTRATOR OF THIS HOSPITAL UNDER THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.

                    WHEN HE WAS UNDER FEDERAL INVESTIGATION, THIS BODY AND THIS STATE DID

                    NOT FIND IT NECESSARY TO PUT IT INTO A RECEIVERSHIP, BUT TODAY IT DOES.

                    DOES THAT NOT SEEM LIKE YOUR POLITICAL OUTRAGE TODAY MIGHT ANGER AND

                    FRUSTRATE THE RESIDENTS OF NASSAU COUNTY WHO ARE HEARING THAT THERE

                                         300



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WILL BE SERVICE CUTS?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS HOSPITAL SHUT,

                    DO YOU?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  OF COURSE I DO NOT AND LIKE

                    SUNY DOWNSTATE I DO NOT WANT TO SEE IT IN THE SAME POSITION.  BUT DO

                    YOU THINK THAT THERE WILL BE CUTS TO HEALTH CARE PROVIDED TO THE VERY

                    PEOPLE YOU SEEK TO BE HELPING?  IS THAT GOING TO BE A PART OF THE

                    PROCESS IN REMOVING THIS RECEIVERSHIP IN THE FUTURE OF THIS HOSPITAL?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU

                    MEAN BY RECEIVERSHIP, AND SECONDLY --

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  WHAT WOULD YOU CLASSIFY

                    THIS TAKEOVER AS?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  MR. -- MR. BLUMENCRANZ, YOU MAY

                    NOT LIKE WHAT I'VE GOT TO SAY, BUT I DO LISTEN TO WHAT YOU SAY AND I

                    WOULD URGE YOU TO SHOW ME THAT SAME MODICUM OF RESPECT.  I AM IN

                    FAVOR OF THIS PROPOSITION BECAUSE I WANT THE HOSPITAL TO CONTINUE AND I

                    DO NOT WANT TO SEE ANYONE LOSE THEIR MEDICAL SERVICES.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  IS THERE AN EXPECTATION IN

                    YOUR MIND AS A MEMBER OF THE MAJORITY WHO IS PART OF THIS DISCUSSION,

                    IS THERE AN IDEA THAT WE MIGHT SEE SOME IMPROVEMENTS TO THE

                    REIMBURSEMENT ISSUES THAT HAVE SYSTEMICALLY BEEN ISSUES FOR THE

                    HOSPITAL TO HAVE A BUDGET THAT MAKES ANY SOLVENCY ISSUES NO LONGER A

                    QUESTION?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WE HAVE DOZENS OF SAFETY NET

                    HOSPITALS IN NEW YORK STATE.  WAIT, MR. BLUMENCRANZ. I'M ACTUALLY

                                         301



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    INCORRECT.  WE HAVE NEARLY A HUNDRED SAFETY NET HOSPITALS IN OUR STATE.

                    NOT ONE OF THEM COMES CLOSE TO THE CRISIS THAT WE FACE AT THE NASSAU

                    UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER.  HOW, MY FRIEND, DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR THAT?

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE

                    COUNTY HOSPITALS, NOT FULLY STATE-RUN INSTITUTIONS BUT COUNTY HOSPITALS?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WELL, THERE'S H&H AND IT DOESN'T

                    MATTER TOO MUCH IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS WHETHER THEY'RE COUNTY

                    HOSPITALS OR THEY'RE NOT COUNTY HOSPITALS.

                                 NASSAU UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER IS UNIQUE AND I

                    THINK WE ALL KNOW THE REASON WHY.  I SHOULD SAY MOST OF US KNOW THE

                    REASON.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  SO WHY DON'T YOU SAY THE

                    QUIET PART OUT LOUD?  GO AHEAD.  WHY -- WHY IS IT FROM DEMOCRATS OR

                    REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION, WHY -- WHY IS THE SYSTEMIC ISSUES -- WHY

                    HAS THIS BODY TURNED A CHEEK AND NOW THEY CARE, NOW THAT THIS

                    PARTICULAR POLITICAL MOMENT THEY DECIDE TO STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  WELL, WE EITHER DO SOMETHING OR WE

                    DON'T DO SOMETHING AND I THINK IT'S TIME TO DO SOMETHING.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  OF COURSE YOU DO.

                                 MR. LAVINE:  BUT NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH THAT.

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE

                    BILL, PLEASE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL, SIR

                                 MR. BLUMENCRANZ:  MADAM SPEAKER, THIS IS A

                    BLATANT POWER GRAB.  IT UNDERMINES HOME RULE AND LOCAL

                                         302



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    REPRESENTATION.  THIS HOSPITAL HAS BEEN SHORTCHANGED.  IT'S BEEN

                    HANDICAPPED.  IT'S BEEN HARMED BY STATE INSTITUTIONS FOR DECADES,

                    WHETHER IT'S A DEMOCRAT IN THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE'S OFFICE OR A

                    REPUBLICAN.  THE LOSERS BECAUSE OF THE INADEQUATE SERVICE THE STATE

                    HAS PROVIDED HAS BEEN PATIENTS, HAS BEEN NASSAU COUNTY RESIDENTS AND

                    HAS BEEN NEW YORKERS.  IT'S TIME THE STATE STEPS UP, PAYS ITS BILLS, FIXES

                    THE INEQUITIES THAT IT HAS PROVIDED TO THIS HOSPITAL AND WORK AS A

                    PARTNER WITH NASSAU COUNTY INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY TREATING IT LIKE A

                    HAMMER IN NEED OF A NAIL.  I EXPECT MORE FROM THIS BODY AND I HOPE

                    THAT WE WORK TOGETHER LOCAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT, NOT WORK AGAINST

                    EACH OTHER.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL

                    CHAIR PRETLOW YIELD, ALTHOUGH I WILL TELL YOU AT THE OUTSET, CHAIR, THAT I

                    HAVE QUESTIONS CONCERNING PART JJ, WHICH I BELIEVE THAT YOU MAY HAVE

                    BEEN REFERRING TO MS. PAULIN IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.  THANK YOU VERY

                    MUCH.  THEN I WOULD ASK MS. PAULIN TO PLEASE YIELD FOR SOME

                    QUESTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MS. PAULIN YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

                                 SO THE QUESTIONS I HAVE HAVE TO DO WITH PART JJ, AS I

                    SAID, HAVING TO DO WITH THE -- WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY TERMED AS THE

                    REGISTRATION OF FETAL DEATHS THAT IS NOW GOING TO BE CALLED REPORTING OF

                    PREGNANCY LOSS.

                                         303



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO I BELIEVE YOU ANSWERED IN RESPONSE

                    TO PREVIOUS QUESTIONING THAT IT WAS JUST A SIMPLE CHANGE IN TERMINOLOGY

                    TO GO FROM REGISTRATION OF FETAL DEATHS TO REPORTING OF PREGNANCY LOSS; IS

                    THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES, BECAUSE THE -- THE FETUS ISN'T

                    CALLED A FETUS UNTIL NINE WEEKS, SO PREGNANCY LOSS WAS MORE ACCURATE

                    BECAUSE IT CAPTURED A MISCARRIAGE THAT COULD HAPPEN PRIOR.

                                 MS. WALSH:  I DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WOULD'VE BEEN THE

                    ELIMINATION OF THE WORD "DEATH" THAT I WAS WONDERING IF PERHAPS

                    BECAUSE OF SAY AN EARLY ABORTION THAT'S THE RESULT OF MAYBE LIKE A -- LIKE

                    A PLAN B TYPE MEDICATION, IF THAT WAS FELT NO LONGER TO BE CONSIDERED A

                    DEATH IN THE -- IN THE TERMS OF THE LEGISLATION.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  IT REALLY HAS TO DO WITH THE NINE

                    WEEKS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  I'M SORRY?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  IT HAD TO DO WITH THE NINE WEEKS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  IT HAD TO DO WITH THE NINE WEEKS?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YEAH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  VERY GOOD.

                                 SO, NOW IT -- IT LOOKS AS THOUGH WE KEEP TRACK

                    CURRENTLY OF ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF -- WELL, WE -- WE KEEP TRACK,

                    OBVIOUSLY, OF LIVE BIRTHS, BUT WE ALSO KEEP TRACK OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF

                    PREGNANCY LOSS.  SO CAN YOU JUST RE -- REVIEW WHAT THOSE DIFFERENT TYPES

                    ARE?

                                         304



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, IT'S STILLBIRTH, IT'S MISCARRIAGE

                    AND IT'S AN ABORTION, ESSENTIALLY.  THOSE ARE THE THREE MAIN CATEGORIES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  SO UNDER THE CHANGES MADE TO

                    THIS -- TO THIS PART OF THE LAW IN PART JJ OF THIS BILL, WE'LL STILL KEEP TRACK

                    OF THE SPONTANEOUS MISCARRIAGES, THE DATA, RIGHT?  AND WE'LL STILL KEEP

                    TRACK OF THE STILLBIRTH DATA, BUT IS IT TRUE THAT THIS BILL NOW WILL NO LONGER

                    REQUIRE THE RECORDING OF THE DATA OR NUMBERS REGARDING THE NUMBER OF

                    ABORTIONS?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  AND WHY IS THAT?  WHY ARE WE

                    SINGLING THAT OUT AND TREATING IT DIFFERENTLY IN TERMS OF DATA?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  AGAIN, AS I EXPLAINED A LITTLE BIT AGO,

                    THE DATA IS COLLECTED DIFFERENTLY, SO FOR STILLBIRTH AND FOR MISCARRIAGE, IT

                    GOES INTO AN ELECTRONIC SYSTEM.  IT'S VERY EASY.  IT'S USUALLY AT A

                    HOSPITAL, SO THE DATA IS PRETTY ACCURATE.  THE WAY ABORTIONS ARE -- THE

                    WAY THAT DATA IS GATHERED IS YOU GET LIKE A TRIPLICATE THING, YOU KNOW,

                    THE OLD FASHIONED CARBON -- YOU HAVE TO WRITE IT OUT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEAH.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  IT'S MAILED TO DIFFERENT PROVIDERS.  IT'S

                    NOT CONSISTENTLY SENT IN.  YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO RETURN IT TO THE CLERK'S

                    OFFICE.  MANY PROVIDERS DON'T DO THAT, SO THE DATA IS REALLY INACCURATE TO

                    BEGIN WITH, SO MUCH MORE ACCURATE DATA IS COLLECTED BY THE SOCIETY OF

                    FAMILY PLANNING.  SO THAT DATA IS ACCURATE AND IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT SIMILAR

                    IN A LOT OF RESPECTS TO THE DATA WE THINK SHOULD BE ACCURATE, WHICH IS

                    THE TRIPLICATE.  SO IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO KEEP THAT DATA WHEN WE GET

                                         305



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    IT A DIFFERENT WAY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND -- AND I APOLOGIZE.  I COULDN'T

                    QUITE HEAR YOU.  DID YOU SAY IT WAS THE SOCIETY FOR FAMILY PLANNING?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.  AND THE -- ALSO THE GUTTMACHER

                    INSTITUTE ALSO COLLECTS THE SAME DATA FROM THE PROVIDERS.  SO IT'S -- THAT'S

                    JUST BETTER DATA.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  ALL RIGHT.  OKAY.  AND I

                    UNDERSTAND THAT.  I APPRECIATE THAT ANSWER.

                                 SO, IS -- WAS THE -- THE CARBON METHOD -- I'LL CALL IT THE

                    CARBON METHOD --

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YEAH, YEAH.

                                 MS. WALSH: -- YOU KNOW, THE THREE PIECES OF PAPER

                    AND ALL THE CARBON STUFF.  SO WAS THERE A CONCERN THAT THAT WOULD'VE

                    BEEN A SIGNIFICANT UNDERREPORT, BECAUSE YOU WOULD'VE HAD MAYBE SOME

                    PEOPLE NOT RETURNING THE PAPERWORK OR SOMETHING LIKE, IT WOULD'VE

                    BEEN AN UNDERREPORT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  IF -- IF IT'S -- YES.  IT WOULD BE AN

                    UNDERREPORTING JUST -- AND JUST -- IT COULD BE WRONG, YOU KNOW.  IT -- IT

                    COULD BE THAT YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT BY THE THIRD PAGE BECAUSE YOU

                    DIDN'T WRITE HARD, YOU KNOW.  SO IT JUST WASN'T -- IT WASN'T WORKING AND

                    DIDN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THOSE TWO OTHER

                    -- THE SOCIETY OF FAMILY PLANNING AND THEN GUTTMACHER - I MIGHT BE

                    SAYING THAT WRONG --

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YEAH.

                                         306



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. WALSH: -- THOSE TWO SOURCES, HOW DID THEY

                    OBTAIN THEIR DATA?  DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THEY DO PROVIDER SURVEYS --

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MS. PAULIN: -- SO -- AND IT'S -- YOU KNOW, SO THE --

                    THE DATA WAS COLLECTED AND IT WAS VERY SPECIFIC TO AN INDIVIDUAL, YOU

                    KNOW, RIGHT?  SO THE DATA THAT -- THAT THE OTHER TWO BETTER COLLECTORS

                    GATHER IS NOT SPECIFIC TO THE INDIVIDUAL.  IT'S JUST -- IT GIVES -- AND GIVES

                    US REALLY THE NUMBERS WE'RE LOOKING FOR AND THE GEOGRAPHIC LOCATIONS

                    PERHAPS, BUT NOT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GOING TO SAY A SPECIFIC NAME,

                    WHICH IS A BETTER WAY TO COLLECT THE DATA FOR VITAL RECORDS ANYWAY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  RIGHT.  OKAY.  SO DO YOU KNOW

                    WHETHER THOSE OTHER TWO ORGANIZATIONS, DO THEY COLLECT CURRENTLY DATA

                    REGARDING ABORTION MEDICATION THAT'S BEING PROVIDED OUTSIDE THE

                    BOUNDARIES OF NEW YORK STATE THROUGH TELEHEALTH AND, YOU KNOW,

                    MAILING IT AS WE'VE DISCUSSED IN PREVIOUS BILLS WE'VE DISCUSSED?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  SO I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP TELEHEALTH

                    BECAUSE THE TELEHEALTH PROVIDERS DIDN'T SEE THEMSELVES AS -- THEY DIDN'T

                    -- THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY WERE OBLIGATED TO FILL OUT THE TRIPLICATE --

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MS. PAULIN: -- OFTEN, SO WE DIDN'T GET THAT

                    INFORMATION, BUT WHEN THEY'RE SURVEYED, THEY DO PROVIDE THE DATA, SO

                    THAT WE REALLY HAVE A MUCH BETTER FEEL FOR WHAT'S HAPPENING IN -- IN

                    THAT AREA.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                         307



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 I THINK THOSE ARE ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE ON THIS

                    PARTICULAR PART.  AND MADAM SPEAKER, AT THIS POINT I WOULD ASK CHAIR

                    PRETLOW TO YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING -- REGARDING --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. PRETLOW, DO YOU

                    YIELD?

                                 MS. WALSH: -- REGARDING -- HOLD ON -- KENDRA'S LAW

                    AND THOSE CHANGES.  I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE HANDLING THOSE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  SO INVOLUNTARY COMMITMENT YOU'RE

                    REFERRING TO.

                                 MS. WALSH:  INVOLUNTARY COMMITMENT, YES.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE CHAIR YIELDS.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU.

                                 SO DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA OF HOW MANY PEOPLE WE'RE

                    TALKING ABOUT HERE WHO WILL BE AFFECTED BY THE CHANGES THAT ARE BEING

                    MADE IN THIS PART EE?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M NOT SURE -- I'M NOT SURE OF THAT

                    NUMBER.  I KNOW THAT IT'S IN THE VICINITY OF 1,000.

                                 MS. WALSH:  ONE THOUSAND?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IN THE VICINITY OF 1,000.  I DON'T

                    WANT TO GIVE YOU AN EXACT NUMBER BUT...

                                 MS. WALSH:  PER YEAR --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                         308



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. WALSH: -- AND WITHIN THE STATE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, SIR.  SO WHEN -- I

                    UNDERSTAND THAT THIS -- I BELIEVE THAT THIS ORIGINATED AS A PROPOSAL MADE

                    BY THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT IS CORRECT.

                                 MS. WALSH:  BUT I'M INTERESTED IN KNOWING IF

                    DURING THE NEGOTIATION IF THERE WERE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED ABOUT

                    THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THOSE 1,000 OR SO PEOPLE REGARDING THE POSSIBILITY OF

                    THEM BEING INVOLUNTARILY COMMITTED.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, CIVIL RIGHTS ARE ALWAYS A

                    CONSIDERATION WHENEVER THESE NEGOTIATIONS ARE TAKING PLACE, BUT THIS IS

                    BEING DONE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND THE PEOPLE

                    THAT ARE IN NEED OF HELP.

                                 MS. WALSH:  SO I -- I AGREE THAT IT IS -- IT IS A

                    BALANCE THAT WE NEED TO TRY TO STRIKE HERE.  ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY

                    CHANGES THAT WERE MADE IN THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL, OR HAS THE

                    PROPOSAL THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND VOTING ON TONIGHT ESSENTIALLY EXACTLY

                    THE SAME AS WHAT THE GOVERNOR --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I THINK THE MOST -- THE MOST

                    SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE IS PROBABLY THAT WE'VE -- WILL DEVELOP AN EXIT PLAN

                    FOR PEOPLE THAT MAY BE CONFINED.  WE'RE ALSO MANDATING THAT THERE ARE

                    A SUFFICIENT NUMBER OF HEALTH PROFESSIONALS AVAILABLE FOR THE TREATMENT

                    OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN DETAINED AGAINST THEIR -- THEIR WISHES.

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                         309



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 AND WE ALSO HAVE A CRISIS RESPONSE CENTER, YES.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND IS THE CRISIS RESPONSE, IS THAT AN

                    ADDITIONAL PIECE THAT WAS PLACED INTO THE -- THE POLICY?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.  THAT WAS PART OF THE

                    NEGOTIATIONS.  THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HELD THE BUDGET UP

                    GETTING THAT --

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- IN -- IN THE BUDGET.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  AND COULD YOU -- COULD YOU

                    TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THESE APPROXIMATELY - AND I UNDERSTAND THAT

                    THAT'S A BALLPARK FIGURE, BUT HOW THESE FOLKS WILL BE IDENTIFIED AND

                    BROUGHT INTO THE SYSTEM FOR ASSISTANCE?  I MEAN IS THAT -- IS THAT

                    THROUGH REFERRALS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, I WOULD THINK GENERALLY BY

                    ACTIVITIES OR ACTIONS ON THE STREET.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WHEN, YOU KNOW, A INDIVIDUAL IS

                    COME -- COME -- COMES -- IS COME UPON BY A MEMBER OF THE GENERAL

                    PUBLIC OR A POLICE OFFICER OR WHOMEVER AND SEES THAT THE PERSON IS IN

                    NEED OF HELP, THEN THEY WILL BE ESCORTED TO A -- TO A FACILITY.  I MEAN IS

                    WHAT WE DO IS EXPAND THE CRITERIA TO COMMIT A PERSON FOR INVOLUNTARY

                    TREATMENT TO INCLUDE A PERSON'S INABILITY TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR OWN

                    ESSENTIAL NEEDS, SUCH AS FOOD, CLOTHING AND NECESSARY MEDICAL CARE.

                    PERSONAL SAFETY OR SHELTER, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS GRAVELY DISABLED

                    STANDARD.

                                         310



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND HOW LONG WILL -- IF AN INDIVIDUAL

                    IS BELIEVED TO MEET THAT STANDARD AND WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT

                    THOSE DIFFERENT CRITERIA AND THERE'S GOING TO BE A DETERMINATION MADE

                    THAT THEY NEED TO BE INVOLUNTARY COMMITTED, FOR WHAT PERIOD OF TIME

                    AND WHAT DUE PROCESS, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, WILL BE UTILIZED TO

                    DETERMINE WHEN THAT PERIOD OF TIME SHOULD BE ENDING?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THE FIRST THING THEY'RE USUALLY

                    FOR A 72 HOUR HOLD --

                                 MS. WALSH:  YEP.

                                 MR. PRETLOW: -- WHERE THEY CAN BE EXAMINED BY A

                    HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL, AND IF SOMETHING IS DEEMED TO BE NECESSARY

                    THEN THAT WOULD BE EXTENDED.

                                 MS. WALSH:  AND IS THERE ANY PERIOD OF TIME

                    BEYOND WHICH, YOU KNOW, YOU'D HAVE TO GO BACK FOR ANOTHER REVIEW OR

                    YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A HEARING OR -- I CONFESS THAT I'VE HEARD OF A 72 HOUR

                    HOLD BEFORE BUT I'M NOT TOO FAMILIAR WITH HOW THIS PROGRAM WOULD

                    WORK.

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  IT WOULD EITHER BE -- I HAVE TO FIND

                    MY NOTES -- IT WOULD EITHER BE DETERMINED WHETHER THEY CAN BE

                    RELEASED AT THAT POINT OR MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE HELD FOR FURTHER

                    EVALUATION.

                                 MS. WALSH:  OKAY.  AND IS THERE --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  AND THAT WOULD -- THAT WOULD

                    REQUIRE A COURT ORDER.  THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE JUST AS A POLICE OFFICER OR

                                         311



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    A HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL.  BRING SOMEWHERE THERE.  YOU WOULD HAVE

                    TO BRING IN A COURT ORDER TO -- TO HOLD THEM.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU.  YOU ANTICIPATED -- YOU

                    KIND OF ANTICIPATED MY NEXT QUESTION.  WHAT -- WHAT TYPE OF JUDGE

                    WOULD BE HANDLING THESE TYPES OF APPLICATIONS?  WOULD IT BE A

                    SURROGATE COURT JUDGE?  AT LEAST UPSTATE THAT'S I THINK WHO WOULD BE

                    PROBABLY HANDLING A MATTER LIKE THAT.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THAT WOULD BE A CIVIL COURT JUDGE.

                                 MS. WALSH:  CIVIL COURT JUDGE, OKAY.  AND WILL WE

                    SEE LATER, PERHAPS, IN THE BUDGET BILLS ANY KIND OF MONEY APPROPRIATION

                    TO SUPPORT WRAPAROUND SERVICES AS WAS MENTIONED BY A PREVIOUS

                    SPEAKER?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES, ABSOLUTELY.

                                 MS. WALSH:  VERY GOOD.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

                    ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  THANK YOU.

                                 MS. WALSH:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. RA.

                                 MR. RA:  MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. RA:  SO I JUST WANT TO REITERATE AND CLEAR UP A --

                    A FEW THINGS.

                                 NUMBER ONE, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT SAFETY NET

                    HOSPITALS.  THERE'S ONLY 29 NON-PROFIT SAFETY NET HOSPITALS IN NEW YORK

                                         312



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    STATE.  AND TALKING ABOUT ANY THAT ARE IN POOR CONDITION, THERE IS

                    NOTHING THAT HAS BEEN IN WORST CONDITION THAN SUNY DOWNSTATE, AND

                    WE'VE INVESTED IN THAT IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET AND AGAIN IN THIS YEAR'S

                    BUDGET.  NOW WE'RE APPARENTLY GIVING CAPITAL TO NASSAU UNIVERSITY

                    MEDICAL CENTER, WHICH -- WHICH IS GREAT, BUT IF OUR CONCERN IS THAT

                    THERE IS NOT A PATH TO THEM BEING SOLVENT, WHAT THEY NEED IS OPERATING

                    HELP.  WHY ARE WE NOT DOING THAT?  WHY HAVE WE FAILED TO DO THAT FOR

                    THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS?

                                 THE HOSPITAL HAS RESPONDED TO EVERYTHING, ALL THE

                    COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.  IT IS NOT CORRECT TO

                    SAY THAT THEY HAVEN'T.  THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH

                    LIKED THE RESPONSE, BUT IT'S NOT TRUE THAT THEY HAVEN'T RESPONDED.  WHAT

                    HASN'T HAPPENED IS THE HOSPITAL HAD REQUESTED MEETINGS IN WRITING TO

                    THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, WHICH THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS

                    REFUSED TO DO.

                                 ALSO, I WANT TO POINT OUT SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD ALL

                    BE AWARE OF AS WE VOTE ON THIS BILL.  AND THAT'S THE FACT THAT WHAT WE

                    HAVE RIGHT NOW, THIS ENTITY AUTHORIZED -- DULY AUTHORIZED THROUGH THEIR

                    BOARD, A LAWSUIT AGAINST NEW YORK STATE CLAIMING OVER $1 BILLION THAT

                    THEY FEEL THEY ARE OWED THAT NEW YORK STATE WAS FOOLING AROUND WITH

                    PAYMENTS TO THEM.  AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.  AS SOON

                    AS THIS NEW BOARD COMES IN THEY'RE GOING TO TERMINATE THAT LAWSUIT.  SO

                    THE IDEA THAT -- I MEAN THINK ABOUT THAT.  WE ARE HAVING A BOARD GET

                    TAKEN OVER THAT HAS AUTHORIZED A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE STATE.  THE STATE'S

                    GOING TO TAKE OVER THAT BOARD SO THEY CAN DROP THE LAWSUIT.  AND WE'RE

                                         313



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    GOING TO PUT THE NASSAU INTERIM FINANCE AUTHORITY IN CHARGE OF

                    APPROVING THE CEO'S COMPENSATION AND BENEFITS, THE SAME NASSAU

                    INTERIM FINANCE AUTHORITY THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING OUT FOR THE

                    FINANCIAL INTEREST OF THE HOSPITAL, WHICH HAS ALSO TRIED TO DEFUND THIS

                    LAWSUIT FROM NUMC.

                                 NOW I ALSO WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT

                    WHETHER THIS IS POLITICS AT PLAY.  LOOK AT THE MAKEUP OF THE NEW BOARD.

                    THE GOVERNOR'S APPOINTMENTS, THE APPOINTMENTS LOCALLY.  NOW WE

                    HAVE A TENDENCY TO LOOK AT THESE THINGS IN TERMS OF WHO'S CURRENTLY IN

                    POWER, BUT IMAGINE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT UNTHINKABLE IF IN AN ELECTION

                    THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE'S OFFICE WERE TO FLIP TO THE OTHER PARTY AND THE

                    COUNTY LEGISLATURE'S MAJORITY FLIPS TO THE OTHER PARTY.  WHAT WOULD

                    YOU HAVE?  YOU WOULD HAVE A BOARD WITH 11 MEMBERS, TEN OF WHOM

                    WERE APPOINTED BY ONE POLITICAL PARTY.  THERE'S POLITICS AT PLAY HERE.

                    AND THIS BODY, AND IN PARTICULAR THE GOVERNOR, IS PLAYING POLITICS WITH

                    OUR SAFETY NET HOSPITAL, WITH A HOSPITAL THAT SERVED ALMOST 300,000

                    PEOPLE LAST YEAR THAT HAS 3,6 -- 3,500, WHATEVER IT IS, HARDWORKING

                    EMPLOYEES WHO GO TO WORK EVERY DAY TRYING TO PROVIDE HEALTHCARE TO

                    THE RESIDENTS OF NASSAU COUNTY.  AND WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WRONG.  IT

                    JEOPARDIZES THE JOBS OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND IT JEOPARDIZES THE

                    HEALTHCARE OF THE PEOPLE THAT THIS HOSPITAL SERVES.  SO I HOPE THE

                    INTENTION IS TO PUT THE HOSPITAL ON A BETTER PATH FORWARD, BUT AS I SAID

                    EARLIER, THERE WAS A REPORT DONE UNDER THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION THAT

                    RECOMMENDED SERIOUSLY SCALING DOWN WHAT THIS HOSPITAL WAS.  IT WOULD

                    NO LONGER BE A HOSPITAL.  IT WOULD NO LONGER BE THERE FOR THE

                                         314



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    COMMUNITY OTHER THAN A VERY LIMITED PURPOSE, AND IF YOU READ THAT

                    REPORT AND READ THIS PROVISION YOU WOULD SEE A LOT OF SIMILARITIES.

                                 THEN I THINK ABOUT THE TERMS OF OFFICE.  FOR SOME

                    REASON THE -- THE GOVERNOR NEEDS HER APPOINTEES TO HAVE LONGER INITIAL

                    TERMS OF OFFICE THAN THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE.  THEY'RE BOTH ELECTED

                    OFFICIALS WHO HAVE FOUR-YEAR TERMS THEMSELVES, BUT THE APPOINTEES OF

                    THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE GET A TWO-YEAR TERM AND THE APPOINTEES OF THE

                    GOVERNOR GET A FOUR-YEAR TERM?  WHAT SENSE DOES THAT MAKE?  SO THERE

                    IS POLITICS ALL OVER THIS PROVISION OF THIS BILL.  AND WE LOOK BACK IN

                    PRIOR ADMINISTRATIONS, THIS BODY DIDN'T SEE FIT TO DO ANYTHING REGARDING

                    THIS.  NOW HERE WE ARE, THINK ABOUT THE POLITICS AT PLAY OF EVEN, YOU

                    KNOW, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE WHO HAS MAYBE AN INTEREST IN CHALLENGING

                    THE GOVERNOR.  SO THIS IS A COMPLETE POLITICAL POWER-PLAY BY THE

                    GOVERNOR BECAUSE ONE PARTY CONTROLS ALBANY SO THIS ISN'T BEING DONE TO

                    HELP THE RESIDENTS OF NASSAU COUNTY.  THIS ISN'T BEING DONE TO HELP

                    THOSE WHO NEED HEALTHCARE.  THIS IS BEING DONE BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR

                    CAN DO IT.  BECAUSE SHE'S IN CHARGE.  AND SHE WANTS TO TAKE OVER THIS --

                    THIS HOSPITAL BOARD.

                                 IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT I HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS ACTION

                    THROUGH THAT LENS, AND I WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY AS WE WENT THROUGH

                    THIS BUDGET PROCESS WE KEPT TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT SHOULD OR

                    SHOULDN'T BE IN THE BUDGET.  HEALTHCARE FOR 300,000 PEOPLE HASHED OUT

                    BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, NO TRANSPARENCY.  THESE PROVISIONS JUST BECAME

                    PUBLIC WITHIN THE LAST 24 HOURS.  WHY AREN'T WE ADDRESSING THIS OUTSIDE

                    THE BUDGET IF THERE'S SUCH A NEED?  WHY AREN'T WE HAVING A HEARING?

                                         315



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WHY AREN'T WE -- WHY AREN'T WE GIVING OURSELVES THE OPPORTUNITY TO

                    SPEAK TO INDIVIDUALS ABOUT -- ABOUT THIS HOSPITAL?  NOW I WANT TO ALSO

                    REMIND EVERYBODY, WE CAN TALK ALL WE WANT ABOUT THE PREVIOUSLY FIRED

                    CHAIRMAN.  THE CURRENT CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD IS OUR HEALTH

                    COMMISSIONER.  THIS IS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS BEEN APPROVED BY NEW

                    YORK STATE ON THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS TO BE HEALTH COMMISSIONER IN

                    DIFFERENT PARTS OF THIS STATE.  I CAN'T IMAGINE THERE'S ANYBODY MORE

                    QUALIFIED THAT THE GOVERNOR COULD MAKE THE CHAIR OF THIS BOARD.  AND I

                    ALSO LOOK AT WHO THE GOVERNOR'S APPOINTMENTS -- THE GOVERNOR HAS

                    APPOINTMENTS TO THE CURRENT BOARD.  TWO OF THEM ARE JUST FAILED

                    DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL CANDIDATES.  DO THEY HAVE SOME GREAT ABILITY TO

                    IMPROVE THE HEALTHCARE OF NASSAU COUNTY RESIDENTS?  I -- I HAVE NO

                    REASON TO -- TO THINK THEY DO, SO WE SHOULDN'T BE TAKING THIS TYPE OF

                    ACTION IN THIS BILL, BUT -- BUT WHAT BOTHERS ME MORE IS WE'RE NOT TREATING

                    NASSAU COUNTY AND NASSAU COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER THE WAY WE HAVE

                    TREATED OTHER HOSPITALS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.  WE'RE NOT.  WE HAVEN'T

                    GIVEN THEM THE SUPPORT AND NOW WE'RE USING THE EXCUSE THAT THEY'RE

                    FAILING AND WE HAVE TO COME AND TAKE THEM OVER.  YET, WHEN OTHER

                    HOSPITALS HAVE BEEN IN NEED, WE'VE GIVEN THEM FUNDING, BOTH CAPITAL

                    AND OPERATING TO SET THEM ON A BETTER PATH FORWARD.  WE'VE NEVER BEEN

                    WILLING TO DO THAT WITH -- WITH OUR SAFETY NET HOSPITAL IN NASSAU

                    COUNTY.

                                 SO I ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THE FACT

                    THAT YOUR SAFETY NET HOSPITAL MAY BE NEXT.  NOW I -- I WOULD SAY IF

                    YOU'RE IN A COUNTY THAT IS DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED YOU'RE PROBABLY OKAY.

                                         316



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    BUT THIS IS A POLITICAL ACTION BY THE EXECUTIVE AND THE -- WE SHOULD BE

                    ASHAMED OF OURSELVES THAT WE'RE PUTTING THIS IN THE BUDGET AND

                    IMPACTING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE'S

                    JOBS ON LANGUAGE THAT IF WE -- WE DO EVERYTHING DIGITALLY NOW, BUT IF

                    WE PRINTED THIS BILL OUT, THE INK WOULDN'T BE DRY YET.  YET WE'RE GOING

                    TO TAKE THIS ACTION TODAY.

                                 SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL.  AND I

                    WISH I COULD VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE MULTIPLE TIMES ON THIS BILL BECAUSE IT

                    IS NOT WHAT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE RESIDENTS OF NASSAU COUNTY.

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. ARI BROWN.

                                 MR. A. BROWN:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  WILL

                    THE SPONSOR YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. A. BROWN:  THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

                                 THE QUESTION'S BEEN ASKED SEVERAL TIMES BUT I THINK IT

                    WILL TAKE YOUR EXPERTISE AS THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS BECAUSE

                    MY QUESTION IS SIMPLY A MATTER OF MATH OF FINANCES THAT ONLY YOU COULD

                    POSSIBLY ANSWER SO I'LL TRY TO ASK IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY BECAUSE I HAVE

                    YET TO HEAR THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.

                                 THE STATE SYSTEMATICALLY WITHHELD THE MATCHING

                                         317



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MEDICAID FUNDS SPECIFICALLY UNDER THE DISPROPORTIONATE SHARE HOSPITAL

                    AND UPPER PAYMENT LIMIT PROGRAMS, I THINK THAT'S VERY CLEAR.  THE SHARE

                    -- SO BASICALLY, IN SIMPLE TERMS, THE STATE OWES NUMC APPROXIMATELY

                    $1.06 BILLION, SOME WILL SAY WITH SOME OTHER MATH ALMOST $2 BILLION.

                    WHY SPECIFICALLY WAS THIS MONEY HELD ALL THIS TIME?  IT'S JUST A MATH

                    QUESTION.  WE DON'T NEED ANYBODY ELSE ANSWERING THE QUESTION.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WELL, THE STATE DOESN'T PAY THE

                    FEDERAL PORTION.

                                 MR. A. BROWN:  AS A MATTER OF FACT --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I'M SORRY.  THE NON-FEDERAL

                    PORTION.

                                 MR. A. BROWN:  UNDER THE DSH AND THE UPL

                    PROGRAMS, ALL THE OTHER HOSPITALS GET THEIR SHARE AND THEY'VE BEEN

                    DENIED OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES.  WHY IS THIS HOSPITAL SO UNIQUE?

                    AND AGAIN, IT'S JUST -- IT'S JUST A MATH QUESTION.  IT HAS TO DO WITH WAYS

                    AND MEANS.  YOU GUYS FIGURE THIS OUT ALL THE TIME.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I THINK THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THE

                    HOSPITAL HAS NOT BEEN COMPLYING WITH WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE

                    PAYING, AND THEY WERE NOT ACCEPTING THE HELP THAT THE STATE WAS

                    OFFERING AND THIS BEGAN TO GROW.  I THINK -- I BELIEVE THEY'RE DEVELOPING

                    A DEFICIT NOW -- OVER $40 MILLION A MONTH OR --

                                 (CONFERENCING)

                                 -- $100 MILLION.

                                 MR. A. BROWN:  THANK YOU, CHAIR, FOR THAT ANSWER.

                    BUT I ASK:  WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT $1 MILLION OR A -- OR $100 MILLION.

                                         318



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    DO YOU NOT THINK THAT BETWEEN 1- AND $2 BILLION WOULD KIND OF SOLVE

                    THIS PROBLEM IF THE STATE DIDN'T WITHHOLD THAT MONEY?  WE'RE NOT

                    TALKING ABOUT A FEW DOLLARS, EVEN THE MONEYS THAT YOU HAD MENTIONED.

                    I THINK WHAT WE ALL KNOW --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE'RE NOT WITHHOLDING ANY MONEY.

                                 MR. A. BROWN:  YOU ACTUALLY ARE, BETWEEN 1 --

                    1.06 AND $2 BILLION OVER THE LAST TWO DECADES.  THAT'S A FACT.  YOU

                    KNOW THAT.  YOU'RE THE CHAIR OF WAYS AND MEANS.  MR. CHAIRMAN,

                    WE'RE OF THAT CERTAIN AGE WHERE WE CAN LOOK EACH OTHER IN OUR EYES AND

                    WE KNOW WHEN ONE OF US IS BEING HONEST ABOUT THE SITUATION, WE KNOW,

                    THEY KNOW IT.  WHY THE ONE -- THE $2 BILLION?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  WE DO NOT AGREE WITH THAT NUMBER.

                    I DO NOT BELIEVE IT'S --

                                 MR. A. BROWN:  LET'S GO ON TO A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

                    IS IT NOT TRUE THAT IN YOUR CONFERENCE THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS AMONG

                    YOUR COLLEAGUES THAT ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS, BECAUSE THEY CAME TO ME

                    AND TOLD ME, THAT ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS WHY THEY WANTED TO TAKE

                    OVER THE HOSPITAL IS BECAUSE OF THE THOUSANDS OF JOBS THAT IN A HEAVILY

                    REPUBLICAN AREA, NOW THAT THEY CAN GIVE OUT THESE PARTICULAR JOBS?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I WOULD NEVER --

                                 MR. A. BROWN: -- YOU CAN SAY THEY KNOW.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I WAS NOT PARTY TO ANY CONVERSATION

                    LIKE THAT.

                                 MR. A. BROWN:  WELL, YOUR COLLEAGUES HAD

                    MENTIONED THAT TO ME IN A GREAT --

                                         319



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THAT WOULD BE.

                                 MR. A. BROWN:  THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.  I

                    APPRECIATE YOUR FORTHRIGHTNESS.  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. MOLITOR.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  THANK YOU.  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WILL THE SPONSOR

                    YIELD?

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  THIS IS MY FIRST ALBANY AFTER DARK

                    SESSION.

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  BE PREPARED FOR MANY MORE.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  MR. PRETLOW, MY QUESTIONS ARE

                    ABOUT PART P AND PART JJ, AND I THINK MS. PAULIN IS --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  YES.  I'LL REFER THOSE -- I YIELD TO

                    MS. PAULIN ON BOTH OF THOSE.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  THANK YOU.  LET'S START WITH PART P.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  OKAY.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I

                    UNDERSTAND THE -- THE SECTION.  IF -- IF SOMEONE COMES TO A HOSPITAL,

                    GENERAL HOSPITAL, WITH A PREGNANCY AND THEY'RE HAVING AN EMERGENCY,

                    THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THAT HOSPITAL TO STABILIZE THAT PERSON AND

                    PROVIDE THEM TREATMENT AND WOULD PREVENT THEIR TRANSFER TO ANY OTHER

                                         320



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    HOSPITAL WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  AND SO IF THAT PERSON THEN WAS

                    STABILIZED BUT THEN REQUESTED AN ABORTION, THAT HOSPITAL WOULD HAVE TO

                    PROVIDE THE ABORTION; IS THAT CORRECT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THEY WOULD PROVIDE IT IF IT WAS PART OF

                    THE STABILIZATION.  THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO THAT, BUT IF IT WAS NOT

                    PART OF THE STABILIZATION, THEY -- THEY WOULDN'T BE AS OBLIGATED, NO.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  SO IF THE HOSPITAL STABILIZED THAT

                    PERSON AND THEN THERE WAS NO LONGER AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, THEY

                    WOULD JUST DISCHARGE THAT PERSON, RIGHT?  THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO

                    PERFORM ANY ADDITIONAL MEDICAL SERVICES UNDER THIS BILL?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  RIGHT.  THAT'S CORRECT.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  BUT IF THERE WAS AN EMERGENCY AND

                    THE PATIENT REQUESTED AN ABORTION, THE HOSPITAL WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE

                    THE ABORTION, WOULDN'T THEY?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN

                    EXACTLY BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY HAD AN EMERGENCY AND THEY WERE

                    PREGNANT, YOU KNOW, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE OR, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER --

                    SOMETHING ELSE THAT WAS GOING ON, AND TO STABILIZE THAT PATIENT THEY

                    NEEDED TO HAVE AN ABORTION, THEY WOULD -- THE HOSPITAL WOULD BE

                    OBLIGATED TO DO THAT.  IF THE ABORTION WASN'T PART OF THE STABILIZATION AND

                    THE HEALTH, YOU KNOW, TO MAINTAIN THE HEALTH OF THE MOM, THEN THAT'S

                    SOMETHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT PART OF THIS BILL.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  OKAY.  AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE

                                         321



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SURE -- YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY WHERE MY QUESTION'S COMING

                    FROM AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG OR IF I'M RIGHT AND YOU AGREE WITH

                    ME.  THIS BILL WOULDN'T FORCE LIKE A CATHOLIC HOSPITAL TO PERFORM

                    ABORTIONS, WOULD IT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  IT'S -- IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING THAT'S

                    -- THAT'S NOT HAPPENING ALREADY.  IF -- YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE'RE

                    CODIFYING FEDERAL LAW, SO THOSE -- ALL HOSPITALS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER

                    THEY'RE CATHOLIC HOSPITALS OR ANOTHER RELIGIOUS HOSPITAL OR WHETHER

                    THEY'RE A SECULAR HOSPITAL, ALL OPERATE UNDER FEDERAL LAW, WHICH

                    REQUIRES THEM TO STABILIZE A PREGNANT PERSON OR ANYBODY COMING IN FOR

                    ANY CONDITION.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  OKAY.  AND HOW MUCH, HOW MUCH

                    MONEY IS ALLOCATED IN THE STATE BUDGET FOR PART P?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL MONEY FOR PART

                    P.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  OKAY.  IS THERE -- ARE WE RENEWING

                    AN AMOUNT OF MONEY FROM A PREVIOUS BUDGET FOR PART P?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  NO, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A CHANGE IN THE

                    WAY THE HOSPITALS OPERATE NOW.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  OKAY.  AND THERE'S NOTHING IN PART

                    P THAT ALLOCATES WHERE LIKE MONEY COMING FROM ANOTHER PART OF THE

                    BUDGET FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROVISION TO BE APPLIED?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  NO.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  OKAY.  AND THERE'S NOTHING IN HERE

                    THAT INDICATES WHEN THE STATE NEEDS TO APPROPRIATE MONEY FOR THIS

                                         322



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    PARTICULAR SECTION?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  NO.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  OKAY.  SO I GUESS MY NEXT QUESTION

                    IS, HOW IS THIS PROVISION IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE NEW YORK STATE

                    CONSTITUTION?  DOESN'T THIS VIOLATE ARTICLE VII -- ARTICLE VI AND ARTICLE

                    VII -- OR I'M SORRY.  ARTICLE VII, SECTION VI AND VII OF THE NEW YORK

                    CONSTITUTION?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  I THINK YOU HAVE TO TELL ME WHAT THOSE

                    ARE, BUT I KNOW IT DOESN'T VIOLATE ANY PART OF THE CONSTITUTION SO I CAN

                    SAY THAT WITH ASSURITY, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHICH YOUR PARTS YOU'RE

                    REFERRING TO.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  WELL, ARTICLE VII HAS TO DO WITH

                    STATE FINANCES, RIGHT?  AND THOSE PARTICULAR SECTIONS SPECIFICALLY STATE

                    THAT APPROPRIATION BILLS HAVE TO BE ABOUT APPROPRIATIONS, ABOUT

                    ALLOCATING MONEY.  BUT AS YOU'VE JUST ADMITTED THIS PART P IS PURE

                    POLICY.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YES.  IN FACT THE GOVERNOR PUT IT IN

                    HER BUDGET AS PURE POLICY AND THIS IS A REVISION OF WHAT SHE'S PUT IN, BUT

                    SHE HAD PUT IT IN HER EXECUTIVE BUDGET TO BEGIN WITH.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  WELL -- BUT ISN'T IT UNCONSTITUTIONAL

                    FOR US TO HAVE POLICY IN APPROPRIATION BILLS?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  WELL, THIS ISN'T AN APPROPRIATION BILL.

                    IT'S AN ARTICLE VII BILL.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  OKAY.  I JUST CITED ARTICLE VII TO

                    YOU.  OKAY.  GOING TO PART JJ --

                                         323



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 MS. PAULIN:  YUP.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  THAT -- I'LL START WITH THE SAME

                    QUESTIONS FOR PART JJ, HOW MUCH -- HOW MUCH MONEY IS BEING

                    ALLOCATED IN THE BUDGET FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS PARTICULAR

                    SECTION?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  NO -- NO MONEY.  IT'S THE SAME.  IT'S A

                    POLICY ISSUE.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  AND WE'RE NOT ALLOCATING MONEY

                    FROM ANY OTHER PART OF THE BUDGET FOR THIS PARTICULAR -- FOR PART JJ?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  NO. THE SENATE HAD PUT IN THIS

                    LANGUAGE SO THERE WAS THREE-WAY AGREEMENT ON THE LANGUAGE, BUT IT

                    WAS PURE POLICY AGAIN.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  OKAY.  NOW IN PART JJ IT CHANGES --

                    IT CHANGES THE DEFINITION OF -- IT REMOVE FETUS FROM -- FROM THE -- FROM

                    THE STATUTE, RIGHT?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  MM-HMM.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  AND IT ADDS -- LET ME GET THE EXACT

                    LANGUAGE HERE.  IT -- IT CHANGES FETUS TO PRODUCTS OF CONCEPTION.  CAN

                    YOU TELL ME WHAT IS A PRODUCT OF CONCEPTION?

                                 MS. PAULIN:  CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE YOU'RE

                    REFERRING SO THAT I CAN BE MORE --

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  YEAH.  I'M LOOKING -- THIS IS PART JJ,

                    LINE -- SECTION 3, WHICH IS LINE 29 THROUGH 38.  IT'S RIGHT AT LINE 33.

                                 MS. PAULIN:  LINE 33.  LET'S SEE.  (READING) SO IF

                    THE INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCING THE PREGNANCY LOSS REQUESTS A REGISTRATION

                                         324



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    TO FACILITATE DISPOSITION OF THE PRODUCTS OF CONCEPTION -- I'M TOLD BY MY

                    VERY ABLE CENTRAL STAFF PERSON HERE THAT PRODUCTS OF CONCEPTION IS

                    ALREADY IN THE LAW, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE DO -- YOU KNOW, EARLIER, YOU

                    KNOW, WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, STILLBIRTH, MISCARRIAGE AND,

                    YOU KNOW, TERMINATION OF A PREGNANCY THROUGH AN ABORTION.  SO, YOU

                    KNOW, I GUESS ANOTHER PRODUCT OF CONCEPTION WOULD BE THE ACTUAL BIRTH,

                    RIGHT?  BUT OTHERWISE I CAN'T THINK OF ANOTHER OUTCOME.

                                 MR. MOLITOR:  OKAY.  THOSE ARE ALL THE QUESTIONS I

                    HAD.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I

                    WOULD ASK THE CHAIR TO YIELD.  I HAVE A BRIEF QUESTION ABOUT NUMC.  I

                    DON'T KNOW IF HE WANTS TO THEN YIELD HIS TIME TO OUR OTHER COLLEAGUE

                    OVER THERE.  I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO SKIP A STEP --

                                 MR. PRETLOW:  I -- I WILL YIELD MY TIME TO MR.

                    LAVINE.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  SO I'M A SUFFOLK COUNTY

                    GUY SO I'M A LITTLE REMOVED FROM THE SITUATION HERE, BUT I JUST HAVE A

                    COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS REGARDING THE SITUATION WITH NUMC.

                                 SO IT IS THE CASE THAT NUMC HAS FILED A $1 BILLION

                    LAWSUIT AGAINST NEW YORK STATE OVER THE CLAIM OF WITHHELD MEDICAID

                    FUNDS?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  YES, AND THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE

                    AUTHORIZED A LOT OF MONEY TO BE SPENT AT A VERY ELEGANT -- WITH A VERY

                                         325



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ELEGANT LAW FIRM TO BRING THAT LAWSUIT.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  SO THAT LAWSUIT IS STILL

                    PENDING?  IT HAS NOT YET BEEN RESOLVED?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  IT IS -- I'M NOT EVEN SURE IT'S ACTUALLY

                    BEEN FILED. WE RECEIVED A LETTER A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO TO THE EFFECT THAT

                    IT WAS GOING TO BE FILED AND, MR. GANDOLFO, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE IN

                    SUFFOLK COUNTY, THE DISTRICT I REPRESENT IS RIGHT NEXT TO SUFFOLK COUNTY

                    AND YOU AND I HAVE WORKED IN THE PAST ON SOME ISSUES THAT WERE OF

                    IMPORTANCE TO SUFFOLK COUNTY.  AND GIVEN THAT NUMC IS THE SAFETY

                    NET HOSPITAL, IT IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE IN NASSAU COUNTY AND

                    CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE AS WELL IN SUFFOLK COUNTY.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OH, YEAH.  THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES

                    THAT ARE OF IMPORTANCE TO BOTH COUNTIES.  WE ARE A REGION.

                                 SO IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED

                    AND MY QUESTION IS:  DOES THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF NUMC HAVE THE

                    AUTHORITY CURRENTLY TO WITHDRAW THAT LAWSUIT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  I CAN -- I CAN ONLY GUESS THE ANSWER

                    TO THAT IS YES.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  SO THEN PRESUMABLY THE

                    NEW COMPOSITION OF THE NEW BOARD WOULD ALSO HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO

                    WITHDRAW THAT LAWSUIT?

                                 MR. LAVINE:  ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A SPECIOUS PIECE OF

                    LITIGATION.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  OKAY.  SO THEY COULD WITHDRAW.

                    THANK YOU.  THOSE ARE MY ONLY QUESTIONS, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                         326



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. GANDOLFO:  MADAM SPEAKER, IT JUST SEEMS A

                    LITTLE INTERESTING THAT AFTER NUMC FILED A $1 BILLION LAWSUIT AGAINST THE

                    STATE, THE STATE IS NOW TAKING THE STEP OF REWORKING THE BOARD OF

                    DIRECTORS TO MAKE IT UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNOR AND THE

                    MAJORITIES HERE WHICH ARE DEMOCRAT RUN, WE ALL KNOW THAT.  AND IT

                    KIND OF SEEMS FROM AN OUTSIDER LOOKING IN THAT THEIR INTENTION WOULD

                    BE TO WITHDRAW THAT LAWSUIT AND POTENTIALLY SAVE THEMSELVES FROM $1

                    BILLION JUDGMENT.  WE KEEP HEARING THAT IT HAS BEEN POORLY RUN AND

                    THAT PRESUMABLY I GUESS A STATE RUN SYSTEM HERE WOULD BE BETTER, BUT

                    LOOKING AT SUNY DOWNSTATE THAT IS RUN BY THE STATE.  THAT HAS RUN

                    ANNUAL DEFICITS TO THE TUNE OF $100 MILLION EVERY SINGLE YEAR, WHICH I

                    GET IT.  IT'S A SAFETY NET HOSPITAL.  THEY SERVE A LOT OF LOWER INCOME

                    COMMUNITIES THAT DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY.  BUT THE

                    DIFFERENCE HERE IS DOWNSTATE HAS BEEN TREATED TOTALLY DIFFERENTLY.  THEY

                    RECEIVED 100 MILLION IN OPERATING FUNDS LAST YEAR.  THIS YEAR THE

                    GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED A COMMITMENT OF ANOTHER 200 MILLION IN

                    OPERATING FUNDS, AND IF WE THINK THAT THE STATE CAN RUN IT BETTER, ONE, I

                    THINK THE GOVERNOR'S APPROVAL RATINGS WOULD BE HIGHER, BUT, TWO, WE

                    JUST HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK DOWN MEMORY LANE OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED AT

                    SUNY DOWNSTATE.

                                 IN 2024 THE SUNY DOWNSTATE CEO RESIGNED AMID

                    ALLEGATIONS OF UNETHICAL CONDUCT, AND ALSO IN 2024 THEIR CHAIR OF

                    EMERGENCY MEDICINE WAS INDICTED FOR ALLEGEDLY STEALING $1.5 BILLION

                                         327



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    FROM THE HOSPITAL.  SO THE NOTION THAT THE STATE IS GOING TO TAKE THIS

                    OVER AND IT'S GOING TO BE SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS AND EVERYTHING WILL BE

                    OKAY IS -- IS JUST LAUGHABLE.  IT'S CLEARLY A POLITICAL MOVE AGAINST A

                    POTENTIAL POLITICAL RIVAL.  MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT COUNTY

                    EXECUTIVE BLAKEMAN WILL EMERGE AS A TOP CONTENDER TO RUN FOR

                    GOVERNOR AGAINST KATHY HOCHUL.  THAT MIGHT BE TRUE.  THERE'S OTHERS

                    WHO ARE INTERESTED, AS WE ALL READ THE REPORTS.  BUT IT -- IT'S JUST SHAPING

                    UP TO LOOK LIKE A POLITICAL HIT JOB AGAINST A RIVAL BEFORE A CAMPAIGN

                    EVEN GETS STARTED.

                                 I WILL BE VOTING NO ON THIS BUDGET BILL.  I -- I -- THIS IS

                    NOT THE FIRST TIME I'VE SEEN THIS BODY AND THIS STATE GOVERNMENT TAKE

                    THESE POLITICAL ACTIONS AGAINST NASSAU COUNTY IN PARTICULAR.  IT'S KIND OF

                    CURIOUS TO ME, SO I -- I JUST CAN'T SUPPORT THE BILL.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.

                                 ON THE BILL.

                                 THERE ARE JUST A FEW THINGS HERE THAT BRING SOME

                    CONCERN TO ME, AND I WILL MENTION THE -- THE CARE OF THE MENTALLY ILL

                    WHO, IN MANY CASES, REALLY NEED MORE HELP THAN WHAT WE'RE BEING

                    PROVIDED FOR IN THIS LEGISLATION.  SO IT'S INVOLUNTARY, BUT I THINK THAT

                    THEIR HEALTH IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE HEALTH OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE

                    TRYING TO PROTECT.  THE SAFETY OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT.

                                         328



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD ISSUES FOR QUITE A WHILE THAT WE HAVE

                    NOT NECESSARILY DEALT WITH AS A SOCIETY, AND I JUST HOPE THAT AT THE END

                    OF THE DAY THAT THE SERVICE THAT THEY GET WILL COME FROM QUALIFIED

                    MENTAL HEALTH PEOPLE AS WELL AS EFFECTIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT.  I'VE SEEN

                    THESE THINGS WORK IN THE GREAT CITY OF BUFFALO WHERE A PARENT ACTUALLY

                    CALLED BECAUSE THEY KNEW THAT THEIR SON WAS OUT OF CONTROL AND DOING

                    SOME THINGS IN A BUSINESS THAT HE SHOULDN'T BE DOING.  AND NOT ONLY DID

                    THE POLICE SHOW UP BUT SO DID THE CRISIS MENTAL HEALTH WORKERS, AND

                    THAT AVERTED THIS YOUNG MAN FROM HURTING SOMEBODY THAT HE WOULD

                    HAVE HURT.  AND SO I HOPE THAT WE'RE SETTING UP A SYSTEM THAT LOOKS LIKE

                    THAT, AND NOT A SYSTEM THAT JUST PICKS PEOPLE UP AND TAKES THEM PLACES

                    WHERE THEY SHOULD NOT BE, WHERE THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE AT,

                    THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON.

                                 AND SO I -- I REALLY HOPE THAT WE'RE GONNA DO THIS

                    RIGHT.  I WAS NOT AROUND YEARS AGO WHEN SOCIETY DECIDED THAT PEOPLE

                    WHO WERE SEVERELY MENTAL [SIC] ILL SHOULD BE MORE IN THE COMMUNITY

                    AS OPPOSED TO INSTITUTIONALIZED.  I WAS NOT AROUND, SO I DON'T KNOW WHY

                    THAT DECISION WAS MADE.  BUT I DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE

                    WHO HAVE SERIOUS MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS THAT SHOULD NOT BE IN

                    COMMUNITIES AT TIMES WHEN THEY CANNOT CONTROL THEIR BEHAVIOR.  NOT

                    JUST FOR THEIR HEALTH AND SAFETY, BUT FOR THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE

                    PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN AND AROUND THEM.  AND SO I WILL WATCH THAT VERY

                    CLOSELY.

                                 SECONDLY, I WILL SAY I -- I -- I LISTENED TO THE DEBATE

                    ABOUT THE SAFETY NET HOSPITAL, AND I KNOW THAT MOST SAFETY NET HOSPITALS

                                         329



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ARE CHALLENGED.  THERE IS NO QUESTION.  BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT ALL OF

                    THEM END UP ON A CONSISTENT LIST OF THE CENTER FOR MEDICAID -- MEDICAL

                    SERVICES WITH ONE STAR OUT OF FIVE.  AND I DON'T KNOW THAT ALL OF THEM

                    END UP WITH A PATIENT BASE THAT THESE ARE VERY ELDERLY OR VERY BLACK

                    AND VERY BROWN, WHO LITERALLY RATES THEM ONE STAR OUT OF FIVE AS WELL.

                    SO I CAN IMAGINE, BECAUSE WE ARE IN A POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT, THAT

                    PEOPLE ARE GONNA FIND WAYS TO MAKE ALL OF THIS ABOUT POLITICS.  BUT IT

                    REALLY COULD BE ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THE PEOPLE WHO GO THERE ON A

                    REGULAR BASIS, AND THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME CHANGES IN THAT.  NOW,

                    DOES -- IS THAT GONNA COST MONEY?  IT ABSOLUTELY IS GOING TO COST

                    MONEY.  AND SO IF THERE IS NOT ENOUGH IN THIS BUDGET, THEN WE NEED TO

                    START TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE GET ENOUGH IN THE BUDGET.  BUT WHAT

                    YOU DON'T WANT TO DO IS PUT ADDITIONAL RESOURCES INTO A PLACE WHERE THE

                    PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF MANAGING IT DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO

                    MANAGE IT PROPERLY.

                                 SO LET'S TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND SEE FOR THE

                    HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PATIENTS WHO NEED TO GET SERVICE FROM THIS

                    HOSPITAL HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO GET A QUALITY SERVICE WHERE PEOPLE --

                    AND THE WORKERS ARE MANAGED IN A WAY, THE FINANCES ARE MANAGED IN A

                    WAY THAT THEY NOT ONLY GET GOOD SERVICE, BUT THEY START RATING THE

                    SERVICE THAT THEY GET MORE THAN ONE OUT OF FIVE.

                                 WITH THAT, I LOOK FORWARD TO VOTING FOR THIS PIECE OF

                    LEGISLATION.  I'M GLAD THAT WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION.  I THINK IT'S

                    CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.  BUT I THINK WHEN WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE

                    WHAT THIS COULD BRING AS A RESULT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO NEED THE SERVICE,

                                         330



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    WE WILL BE PLEASED FOR THEM.  WE WON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT

                    EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS IS ABOUT POLITICS.  AND I KNOW WE WORK IN A

                    POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT, WE ALL GOT ELECTED BASED ON THIS.  BUT AT THE END

                    OF THE DAY, OUR BIGGEST CONCERN SHOULD BE ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO WALK

                    INTO THE PLACE TO GET HEALTHCARE AND CAN'T -- DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE TO

                    WALK INTO.  BECAUSE AS WAS SAID, THERE'S NO URGENT CARES IN THE

                    NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ARE GONNA TAKE CARE OF THEM.  THEY NEED -- THEY

                    HAVE TO GO TO THIS HOSPITAL.  AND SO I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT UPON US TO

                    TRY TO DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO GET IT INTO A BETTER POSITION WHERE IT'S

                    PROPERLY MANAGED.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MR. BURROUGHS.

                                 MR. BURROUGHS:  THANK YOU.  I JUST WANTED TO

                    SPEAK ON NUMC AND --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ARE YOU ON THE BILL,

                    SIR?

                                 MR. BURROUGHS:  I'M ON THE BILL.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE BILL.

                                 MR. BURROUGHS:  AND BEING A MEMBER WHO

                    REPRESENTS A LARGE BASE THAT USE THAT HOSPITAL, NUMC HAS BEEN SEVERELY

                    MISMANAGED FOR DECADES.  AND THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HERE

                    DEBATING WHETHER IT'S -- IT'S CONSIDERED A STATE TAKEOVER OR NOT, I THINK

                    IT DOES A DISSERVICE TO THE PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT SPECIFICALLY.  AND

                    HAVING PEOPLE THAT ARE ACTUALLY IN THAT HOSPITAL THAT SERVICE IT AND FROM

                                         331



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE INSIDE OUT THEY CAN SEE THE NEGATIVE WAY -- WAY WHICH OF THIS

                    HOSPITAL WAS OPERATED.  AND SO YOU SPEAK ABOUT THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE

                    AND YOU SPEAK ABOUT IT BEING A POLITICAL MOVE.  AT WHAT POINT WOULD

                    YOU SAY WE CONTINUE TO ALLOW THE HOSPITAL TO BE MISMANAGED THIS WAY?

                    AND SO YOU MAY CALL IT A HOSPITAL TAKEOVER, BUT I THINK WE JUST CALL IT

                    FIGURING OUT A WAY TO OPERATE THAT HOSPITAL IN A WAY THAT WORKS

                    FUNCTIONAL.

                                 SO THE GOVERNOR'S COME UP WITH SOME SUGGESTIONS.  I

                    FULLY SUPPORT THOSE SUGGESTIONS.  AND I THINK THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A

                    BASE AND THEY ARE CONSTANTLY AFRAID OF HOW THE HOSPITAL IS MANAGED,

                    WHEN YOU HAVE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE THE CEO, THEY COME UP TO THE

                    STATE AND THEY ASK US FOR FUNDING, BUT THEY DON'T SHOW US TRANSPARENCY

                    ON HOW THEY HAVE SPENT MONEY OR WHERE THEY'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO

                    SPEND MONEY, I THINK I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.  AND ALSO, WHEN YOU

                    HAVE THOSE SAME INDIVIDUALS SPEND MONEY ON ATTACK ADS, SPENDING

                    MONEY ON ATTACKING THE STATE, SPEND MONEY ON ATTACKING THE

                    GOVERNOR, I THINK IT SHOWS A GREAT UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE HOSPITAL IS

                    IN THE CONSTRAINTS IT'S IN.  BECAUSE YOU'RE MISMANAGING MONEY BUT

                    YOU'RE USING MONEY FOR MAILERS THAT COST TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

                    THAT MONEY SHOULD BE USED FOR THE HOSPITAL.  THAT MONEY SHOULD BE

                    USED TO GUIDE THAT -- THAT -- THAT INSTITUTION INTO A DIRECTION OF POSITIVE

                    MOVEMENT, NOT NEGATIVE.

                                 COUNTY EXECUTIVE BRUCE BLAKEMAN -- BRUCE -- AND --

                    AND BRUDERMAN HAVE BEEN MANAGING THAT HOSPITAL INTO THE GROUND.

                    AND SO FOR THAT, I -- I WILL BE VOTING IN THE POSITIVE FOR THESE CHANGES.

                                         332



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE

                    THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  A PARTY VOTE HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  MADAM SPEAKER, THE MINORITY

                    CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.  IF

                    ANYBODY WANTS TO VOTE YES THEY CAN DO SO NOW AT THEIR SEATS.  THANK

                    YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, THE

                    MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO GENERALLY BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF

                    PROGRESSIVE LEGISLATION.  I AM SURE THAT WE WILL DO LIKEWISE; HOWEVER,

                    THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.  THEY SHOULD

                    FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. BRAUNSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. BRAUNSTEIN:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER,

                                         333



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WILL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS BUDGET BILL.  IN

                    PARTICULAR, I SUPPORT THE CLARIFYING LANGUAGE AROUND WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL

                    WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES CAN BE BROUGHT IN FOR INVOLUNTARY TREATMENT.

                    I -- I THINK MANY OF US, PARTICULARLY WHO REPRESENT THE CITY OF NEW

                    YORK, HAVE NOTICED AN INCREASE IN PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES

                    THAT ARE UNTREATED, WHETHER IT'S ON OUR STREETS OR -- OR IN OUR SUBWAYS.

                    AND THE CONCERN IS WE SEND OUT, YOU KNOW, SUPPORT TEAMS TO TRY AND

                    GET PEOPLE IN FOR HELP, BUT SOME INDIVIDUALS ARE JUST INCAPABLE OF

                    UNDERSTANDING THEY NEED HELP AND THEY REFUSE THE SUPPORT THAT'S GIVEN.

                    RIGHT NOW THE STANDARD FOR WHETHER OR NOT AN INDIVIDUAL COULD BE

                    BROUGHT IN FOR INVOLUNTARY TREATMENT, IT'S -- IT'S NOT CLEAR IF SOMEONE HAS

                    TO BE PHYSICALLY VIOLENT, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE -- RIGHT?  AND IT COULD

                    BE READ THAT THEY HAVE TO BE THREATENING TO COMMIT SUICIDE OR

                    THREATENING TO ATTACK SOMEBODY.  AND THIS LANGUAGE MAKES IT CLEAR THAT

                    HARM TO YOURSELF OR OTHERS INCLUDES A PERSON, BECAUSE OF THEIR MENTAL

                    ILLNESS, THEIR INABILITY TO PERFORM BASIC HUMAN TASKS LIKE FEEDING

                    THEMSELVES, CLOTHING THEMSELVES, TAKING CARE OF THEIR HEALTH CARE.

                                 I'VE CARRIED LEGISLATION TO PUSH THIS CHANGE FOR SEVERAL

                    YEARS NOW.  IT ONLY APPLIES TO A SMALL UNIVERSE OF INDIVIDUALS, BUT THESE

                    INDIVIDUALS DO NEED THAT HELP.  I THINK THIS IS THE COMPASSIONATE THING

                    TO DO, AND I'M HOPEFUL THAT WITH THIS NEW STANDARD WE'LL BE ABLE TO HELP

                    THOSE NEEDY -- NEEDY NEW YORKERS WHO ARE SUFFERING WITH MENTAL

                    ILLNESS.

                                 SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. BRAUNSTEIN IN

                                         334



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. EPSTEIN:  THANK -- THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER.  I RISE TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

                                 SO THERE'S A LOT IN THIS BILL AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT THAT

                    WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT.  WE ALL KNOW, AS A PRIOR SPEAKER SAID,

                    THERE'S PEOPLE STRUGGLING WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, AND THE WAY THE

                    CURRENT SYSTEM FUNCTIONS IS WE HAVE A ONE-SIZE-FIT-ALL [SIC] RESPONSE TO

                    THE CRISIS OF MENTAL HEALTH.  AND THIS BILL TALKS ABOUT HOW WE'D REFRAME

                    THAT.  HOW NOT EVERYTHING NEEDS A POLICE RESPONSE.  THAT EMS AND

                    OTHER RESPONDERS ARE CRITICAL.  AND TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE THOSE PEOPLE

                    IN PLACE, WE ARE STATUTORILY REQUIRING THIS SYSTEM AND STRUCTURE IN PLACE.

                                 WE ALSO NEED TO TALK ABOUT DISCHARGE PLANS BECAUSE

                    WHEN PEOPLE ARE LEAVING A HOSPITAL OR OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, IT'S

                    REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THERE'S A REAL DISCHARGE PLAN FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE

                    STRUGGLING WITH MENTAL HEALTH.  THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

                                 USING EMS IS A REAL CRITICAL FACTOR IN ENSURING THAT

                    PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH AREN'T BEING FACED WITH THE POLICE AS THE FIRST

                    RESPONDER, AND MAYBE EMS CAN BRING THE TEMPERATURE DOWN AND

                    ENSURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE REAL PLANS.

                                 NO BILL IS PERFECT, BUT THERE'S A LOT HERE THAT WE CAN

                    BUILD ON TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING IN NEW YORK GET THE

                    SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED AND GET THE HELP THEY NEED, AND TO ENSURE

                    LONG-TERM VIABILITY.  AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.  IN ADDITION, WE'RE

                    ENSURING THAT HOSPITALS GET ADDITIONAL RESOURCES TO MOVE FORWARD TO

                                         335



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ENSURE OUR SAFETY NET HOSPITALS GET THE SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED.

                                 AND BASED ON ALL OF THESE THINGS AND THE RESOURCES

                    THAT WE NEED FOR REPRODUCTIVE CARE ACROSS THE BOARD, I'LL BE VOTING IN

                    FAVOR OF THIS BILL.

                                 (PAUSE)

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD

                    YOU PLEASE WITHDRAW THE ROLL SO THAT WE MIGHT PUT OUT THE SENATE SUB?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THE ROLL CALL IS

                    WITHDRAWN.

                                 ON A MOTION BY MR. PRETLOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE

                    THE HOUSE.  THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

                                 READ THE LAST SECTION.

                                 THE CLERK:  THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  A PARTY VOTE HAS

                    BEEN REQUESTED.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  ONCE AGAIN, MADAM SPEAKER, THE

                    MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE.  ANY AFFIRMATIVE VOTES

                    CAN BE CAST RIGHT NOW AT THEIR DESKS.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, THE

                    MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                         336



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    I'M GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.  THERE ARE CERTAINLY THINGS IN

                    THIS BILL THAT I LIKE.  THERE ARE PROBABLY MORE THAT I DON'T.  BUT I WANT TO

                    HIGHLIGHT ONE PARTICULAR REASON THAT I'M VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE, WHICH IS

                    THE LACK OF THE 7.8 TII OR COLA OR WHATEVER EUPHEMISM YOU WANT TO

                    PUT ON IT, WHICH DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE AS IT WAS POINTED OUT EARLIER, IT

                    HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL RATE OF INFLATION.  IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING.

                    I VIEWED DURING THE BUDGET HEARINGS SORT OF THE CONSENSUS AMONG THE

                    ASSEMBLY, THE SENATE, REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, SORT OF A FOUNTAIN OF

                    HOPE AND BIPARTISANSHIP HERE IN ALBANY.  AND -- AND A LOT OF US ASKED,

                    FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, WHY DON'T WE JUST START EVERY YEAR WITH

                    INFLATION FOR THE MENTAL HYGIENE LINES, AND INSTEAD WE HAVE TO DO THIS

                    DANCE EVERY YEAR WHERE THE LEGISLATURE WANTS TO DO MORE, THE

                    EXECUTIVE WANTS TO DO LESS.  AND IT WOULD BE FINE EXCEPT WE'RE DEALING

                    WITH OUR MOST VULNERABLE POPULATION FOR THESE PARTICULAR LINE ITEMS;

                    THOSE WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, THOSE WHO ARE DEALING WITH

                    MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES, THOSE WHO ARE DEALING WITH ADDICTIONS.

                    PEOPLE THAT ARE RECEIVING BENEFITS NOT BECAUSE OF ANY CHOICE THEY MADE

                    AND FOR NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN IN MANY CASES.  THOSE WITH

                    DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, THOSE WITH MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES,

                    THEY'RE -- THEY'RE NOT CHOOSING TO BE IN THE SITUATION THAT THEY'RE IN.

                    AND THE COMPROMISE THAT WAS REACHED BETWEEN 2.1 AND 7.8 AT 2.6,

                    THAT'S NOT EXACTLY A PRETTY FAIR COMPROMISE.  THAT'S NOWHERE NEAR THE

                                         337



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MIDDLE, AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOWHERE NEAR THE 7.8 WHICH WOULD HAVE

                    MADE UP FOR INFLATIONARY PRESSURE.  SO THAT IS NOT A COMPROMISE THAT

                    I'M PREPARED TO ACCEPT.  IT'S -- IT'S NOT A COMPROMISE THAT GIVES THE

                    PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THE HARD WORK IN THESE AREAS WHAT THEY DESERVE.

                    ESPECIALLY GIVEN WE'RE ABOUT TO SPEND A QUARTER-TRILLION DOLLARS.  OUT OF

                    A QUARTER-TRILLION DOLLARS WE COULDN'T FIND ENOUGH MONEY TO

                    (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU, MR.

                    SEMPOLINSKI.  HOW DO YOU VOTE?

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

                    ABOUT PRIORITIES AND THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE A PRIORITY, NOT AN

                    AFTERTHOUGHT.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  HOW DO YOU VOTE?

                                 MR. SEMPOLINSKI:  I VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. SEMPOLINSKI IN

                    THE NEGATIVE.

                                 MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. SIMON:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  AS

                    MENTAL HEALTH CHAIR I HAVE ADVOCATED FOR A BUDGET THAT MEETS THE

                    NEEDS OF ALL NEW YORKERS, AND THIS BUDGET BILL PUTS INTO EFFECT SOME

                    IMPORTANT PROGRESS FOR PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS.  IT ENSURES

                    IMPROVED AND MORE EXTENSIVE DISCHARGE PLANNING, FOLLOW-THROUGH TO

                    ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ARE REFERRED TO COMMUNITY-BASED AND PEER-BASED

                    PROGRAM AND SERVICE TO PLANS THAT WILL BE ISSUED IN WRITING SO THAT

                    EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON AND CAN FOLLOW THROUGH.

                                         338



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BE CREATING FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE

                    2014 WHAT WAS MANDATED -- WE'RE MANDATING THIS YEAR THE USE OF

                    INCIDENT REVIEW PANELS.  TOO OFTEN AN INCIDENT OCCURS, WE DON'T KNOW

                    WHAT WENT WRONG, WE DON'T STUDY IT.  AND WHEN IT'S -- IF IT'S STUDIED

                    BEHIND THE SCENES, IT'S NEVER RELEASED.  THIS WILL HELP US MAKE BETTER

                    POLICY BECAUSE WE WILL BE MORE FULLY INFORMED.

                                 WE ARE ALSO SUPPORTING PILOT PROJECTS FOR BEST

                    PRACTICES TO RESPONSE IN MENTAL HEALTH CRISES, ALTHOUGH IT IS NOT QUITE

                    WHAT WE HAD ENVISIONED IN DANIEL'S LAW OR CAPSULE -- IT DOESN'T

                    CAPTURE QUITE WHAT THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDED.  AND WE WILL BE

                    CREATING A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE CENTER TO BE THE

                    REPOSITORY OF BEST PRACTICES AND ASSIST LOCALITIES IN RESPONDING.

                                 WE'RE ALSO EXPANDING THE USE OF EFFECTIVE PROGRAMS

                    SUCH AS CLUBHOUSES, INSET AND ACT TEAMS.  WE NEED TO DO MORE

                    BECAUSE THEY ARE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE, THEY ARE VERY COST-EFFECTIVE, AND

                    THEY'RE BETTER TREATMENT FOR PEOPLE.

                                 WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO, HOWEVER.  I'M

                    DISAPPOINTED THAT WE'RE CODIFYING INTO STATE LAW A STANDARD THAT -- FOR

                    INVOLUNTARY COMMITMENT THAT HAS BEEN IN USE IN NEW YORK CITY AND

                    HAS BEEN LARGELY UNSUCCESSFUL; IN LARGE PART BECAUSE FIRST RESPONDERS

                    ARE NOT TRAINED CLINICIANS AND THEY'RE GOING TO PICK UP PEOPLE WHO

                    DON'T MEET THAT STANDARD.  THEY WILL THEN CYCLE BACK OUT BECAUSE WE

                    DON'T HAVE PLACES FOR THEM TO GO.  AND THAT, OF COURSE, IS -- BRINGS UP

                    ONE PROBLEM (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU, MS.

                                         339



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SIMON.  HOW DO YOU VOTE?

                                 MS. SIMON:  -- SUPPORTED HOUSING.

                                 I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.  MS.

                    SIMON IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

                                 MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN:  THANK YOU, MADAM

                    SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.  I WANT TO APPLAUD MY

                    COLLEAGUES, THE SPEAKER, THE MAJORITY LEADER, THE GOVERNOR AND ALL OF

                    US FOR TACKLING AN ISSUE THAT STILL GOES -- THAT STILL PLAGUES MANY NEW

                    YORKERS, AND THAT IS REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, BY INCLUDING A PREGNANT

                    PERSON WHO IS IN ACTIVE LABOR IN THE DEFINITION OF EMERGENCY MEDICAL

                    CONDITION.  THIS WILL ENSURE THAT BABIES AND EXPECTANT FAMILIES ARE

                    TAKEN CARE OF AT THE TIME OF ADMISSION AND NOT IGNORED.  EXPANDING

                    ACCESS TO INFERTILITY CARE BY ALLOWING MEDICAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM TO

                    COVER PRESERVATION SERVICES TO ENSURE FAMILIES HAVING TO MAKING [SIC]

                    DIFFICULT DECISIONS REGARDING A LOVED ONE'S HEALTH OR EVEN THEIR OWN

                    HEALTH WILL HAVE ONE LESS THING TO WORRY ABOUT IF THEIR MEDICAL

                    CONDITION OR TREATMENT OF SAID CONDITION WILL NEGATIVELY IMPACT THEIR

                    FERTILITY AND DECREASE THEIR ODDS OF EVER HAVING CHILDREN IN THE FUTURE.

                                 FOR THESE REASONS AND MANY OTHER REASONS SUCH AS

                    ADDRESSING MENTAL HEALTH, INCREASING FUNDING FOR MEDICARE AND

                    MEDICAID FOR SOME OF OUR MOST VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES, I WILL BE

                    VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.  THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MS. BICHOTTE

                                         340



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    HERMELYN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

                                 THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

                                 (THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

                                 ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES?  THE CLERK WILL ANNOUNCE

                    THE RESULTS.

                                 (THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

                                 THE BILL IS PASSED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU

                    COULD NOW GO TO PAGE 3 SO THAT WE MIGHT TAKE UP OUR RESOLUTIONS.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  RESOLUTIONS, PAGE

                    3, THE CLERK WILL READ.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 444, MS.

                    LUNSFORD.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 7, 2025, AS FENTANYL AWARENESS DAY

                    IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 445, MR.

                    DURSO.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 7, 2025, AS SKILLED TRADES DAY IN THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                         341



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 446, MR.

                    BENDETT.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 7, 2025, AS SCHOOL NURSE DAY IN THE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. BENDETT ON THE

                    RESOLUTION.

                                 MR. BENDETT:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    TODAY PLEASE JOIN ME IN ACKNOWLEDGING THE ROLE AND THE VALUE OF OUR

                    SCHOOL NURSES IN CARING FOR OUR YOUTH AS WE RECOGNIZE TODAY AS SCHOOL

                    NURSE DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 SCHOOL NURSES HAVE SERVED A CRITICAL ROLE IN IMPROVING

                    PUBLIC HEALTH AND ENSURING OUR STUDENTS' ACADEMIC SUCCESS FOR MORE

                    THAN 100 YEARS.  SO LET'S CELEBRATE AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE

                    ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF SCHOOL NURSES EVERYWHERE AND THEIR EXTRAORDINARY

                    EFFORTS TO MEET THE NEEDS OF TODAY'S STUDENTS BY IMPROVING THE DELIVERY

                    OF HEALTHCARE IN OUR SCHOOLS.

                                 THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

                    AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 447, MR.

                                         342



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    MCDONALD.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 5-11, 2025, AS TARDIVE DYSKINESIA

                    AWARENESS WEEK IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 448, MS.

                    WOERNER.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 2025, AS BEEF MONTH IN THE STATE OF

                    NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 449, MS.

                    LEVENBERG.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 2025, AS GLOBAL EMPLOYEE HEALTH AND

                    FITNESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MS. LEVENBERG ON

                    THE RESOLUTION.

                                 MS. LEVENBERG:  THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.  I

                    RISE TO SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION PROCLAIMING MAY 2025 AS GLOBAL

                    EMPLOYEE HEALTH AND FITNESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                         343



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 THIS INTERNATIONAL OBSERVANCE OF HEALTH AND FITNESS IN

                    THE WORKPLACE HAS A GOAL OF PROMOTING THE BENEFITS OF A HEALTHY

                    ENVIRONMENT TO EMPLOYERS AND THEIR EMPLOYEES THROUGH WORKSITE

                    HEALTH PROMOTION ACTIVITIES AND WORKPLACES IN HOPES THAT ONE DAY ALL

                    PEOPLE WILL HAVE REGULAR OPPORTUNITIES TO BE PHYSICALLY ACTIVE SO THEY

                    CAN LIVE, WORK, PLAY AND THRIVE.  OF COURSE THAT DOES INCLUDE GETTING A

                    GOOD NIGHT'S SLEEP, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 SO I BELIEVE THAT IT'S FITTING TO SET ASIDE AND RECOGNIZE

                    TIME TO STOP AND THINK AND ENCOURAGE A HEALTHY LIFESTYLE FOR PEOPLE OF

                    ALL AGES, AND IN DOING SO ENHANCE THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF THE ENTIRE

                    STATE OF NEW YORK.  SO THEREFORE, I HOPE WE CAN ALL GET SOME GOOD REST

                    TONIGHT.

                                 THANK YOU.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                                 ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

                    AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 450, MR.

                    DESTEFANO.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 2025 AS WILDFIRE SAFETY AWARENESS

                    MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 451, MS.

                                         344



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    SEAWRIGHT.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 2025 AS OLDER NEW YORKERS MONTH IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 452, MS.

                    LUPARDO.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 2025 AS MOTORCYCLE SAFETY AND

                    AWARENESS MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 453, MS.

                    BUTTENSCHON.

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM MAY 2025 AS LUPUS AWARENESS MONTH IN

                    THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.


                                 THE CLERK:  ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 454, MR.

                    RIVERA.

                                         345



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                                 LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

                    KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM JUNE 2025 AS WORLD REFUGEE AWARENESS

                    MONTH IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  ON THE RESOLUTION,

                    ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO.  THE RESOLUTION IS

                    ADOPTED.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  MADAM SPEAKER, DO YOU

                    HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  WE HAVE NO

                    HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS.

                                 MS. WALSH.

                                 MS. WALSH:  MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD YOU PLEASE

                    CALL ON ASSEMBLYMEMBER SMULLEN FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT?

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  MR. SMULLEN FOR THE

                    PURPOSES OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

                                 MR. SMULLEN:  GOOD EVENING, MADAM SPEAKER.

                    IT'S MY PLEASURE TO ANNOUNCE THAT THERE WILL BE MINORITY CONFERENCE AT

                    08:30, 8:30 A.M., TOMORROW MORNING ON ZOOM.

                                 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.

                    MINORITY CONFERENCE 8:30 TOMORROW MORNING, THURSDAY, 8:30 A.M. VIA

                    ZOOM.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

                                 MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES:  I NOW MOVE THAT THE

                                         346



                    NYS ASSEMBLY                                                          MAY 7, 2025

                    ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED THAT WE RECONVENE AT 10:30 A.M., THURSDAY,

                    MAY THE 8TH, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.

                                 ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER:  THANK YOU.  ON

                    MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE HOUSE STANDS ADJOURNED.

                                 (WHEREUPON, AT 10:41 P.M., THE HOUSE STOOD

                    ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, MAY 8TH AT 10:30 A.M., THAT BEING A SESSION

                    DAY.)





































                                         347