MONDAY, JUNE 16, 2025 1:27 P.M.

SPEAKER HEASTIE: THE HOUSE WILL COME TO

ORDER.

I WANT THE -- THE HOUSE TO TAKE A MOMENT OF SILENCE

FOR THE TRAGEDY THAT HAPPENED IN MINNESOTA TO TWO -- TWO COLLEAGUES;

STATE REPRESENTATIVE MELISSA HORTMAN AND HER HUSBAND WERE KILLED.

THEY LEAVE BEHIND TWO CHILDREN. SHE'S THE FORMER SPEAKER OF THE

HOUSE, SO A CO -- THEY HAD A LEADERSHIP AGREEMENT AS THE HOUSE IN

MINNESOTA WAS -- WAS SPLIT. SHE WAS FIRST ELECTED IN 2004. SHE PLAYED

A KEY ROLE IN PASSING ABORTION PROTECTIONS, RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA AND

PAID FAMILY -- PAID FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE.

WE ALSO WANT TO JOIN IN FOR SENATOR JOHN HOFFMAN.

HE SURVIVED, AND HIS WIFE YVETTE SURVIVED. HE WAS FIRST ELECTED IN

2012. HE CHAIRS THE SENATE'S HUMAN SERVICES COMMITTEE, AND HE'S A

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

BIG SUPPORTER OF COLLABORATION ACROSS THE AISLE.

SO WE JUST WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT OF SILENCE IN

PARTICULAR FOR STATE REPRESENTATIVE MELISSA HORTMAN AND HER HUSBAND

AND -- AND THE ENTIRE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

(WHEREUPON, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS OBSERVED.)

THANK YOU.

VISITORS ARE INVITED TO JOIN MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF

ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, SPEAKER HEASTIE LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A QUORUM BEING

PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE JOURNAL OF SUNDAY, JUNE 15TH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, I MOVE

TO DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF JUNE THE 15TH AND

THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WITHOUT OBJECTION,

SO ORDERED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. COLLEAGUES THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBER AS WELL AS THE GUESTS THAT

WE HAVE HERE, WE HAVE A QUOTE TODAY. THIS ONE IS COMING FROM

MAHATMA GANDHI, AN INDIAN LAWYER AND ANTICOLONIST [SIC] NATIONALIST.

HIS WORDS FOR US TODAY: THERE ARE TWO DAYS IN THE YEAR THAT WE CAN'T

[SIC] DO ANYTHING ABOUT [SIC], THAT WAS [SIC] YESTERDAY AND TOMORROW.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AGAIN, THESE WORDS FROM MAHATMA GANDHI.

MADAM SPEAKER, MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR DESK A MAIN

CALENDAR AND DEBATE LIST. AND AFTER YOU HAVE DONE ANY INTRODUCTIONS

AND/OR HOUSEKEEPING WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN OUR FLOOR WORK TODAY BY

TAKING UP THE FOLLOWING BILLS ON CONSENT: CALENDAR NO. 91 BY MS.

ROSENTHAL, CALENDAR NO. 158 BY MR. KIM, RULES REPORT NO. 341 BY

MS. LEE, RULES REPORT NO. 5 -- 652 BY MR. WRIGHT, RULES REPORT NO.

654 BY MS. CRUZ, AND RULES REPORT NO. 657 BY MS. ZINERMAN. WE'RE

THEN GOING TO TAKE UP THE FOLLOWING BILLS ON DEBATE: RULES REPORT NO.

287 BY MR. MAGNARELLI, RULES REPORT NO. 321 BY MR. BRONSON, RULES

REPORT NO. 406 BY MR. OTIS, RULES REPORT NO. 409 BY MR. HEVESI,

RULES REPORT NO. 467 BY MR. LASHER, AND RULES REPORT NO. 498 BY

MR. EPSTEIN.

WE'RE ALSO GONNA BE CALLING FOR THE FOLLOWING

COMMITTEES TO MEET OFF THE FLOOR: WAYS AND MEANS AND RULES. THESE

COMMITTEES ARE GOING TO PRODUCE AN A-CALENDAR OF WHICH WE WILL TAKE

UP TODAY. THERE MAY BE A NEED TO ANNOUNCE ADDITIONAL FLOOR ACTIVITY

AS WE PROCEED, MADAM SPEAKER. WE'LL BE HAPPY TO ADVISE AT THAT

MOMENT.

SO THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE WE'RE GOING. IF

YOU COULD NOW BEGIN WITH INTRODUCTIONS AND/OR HOUSEKEEPING. THANK

YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

WE HAVE NO HOUSEKEEPING THIS AFTERNOON. WE DO

HAVE SEVERAL INTRODUCTIONS. WE'LL START WITH MR. JONES FOR THE PURPOSE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. JONES: MADAM SPEAKER, I RISE TODAY TO

INTRODUCE A VERY SPECIAL PERSON TO ME, AND IT'S MY DAUGHTER ELLA. AND

SHE'S HAPPY TO BE HERE WITH ALL OF US. I'M -- I'M VERY PROUD OF THE

YOUNG LADY SHE IS GROWING INTO, AND EVERYTHING I DO IN THIS JOB AND IN

MY LIFE IS BECAUSE OF HER. ELLA IS WELL KNOWN AROUND MY DISTRICT IN THE

NORTH COUNTRY. SHE'S BEEN TO SEVERAL HUNDREDS, IF NOT THOUSANDS OF

EVENTS WITH ME, IN PARADES AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN BETWEEN. AND, YOU

KNOW, SHE'S TRAVELED A THOUSAND -- THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF MILES IN

MY VEHICLE AND PROBABLY EATEN AT EVERY SINGLE SNACK BAR AND RESTAURANT

IN MY DISTRICT AS WELL.

SO, MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU COULD, PLEASE ALLOW HER

ALL THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR AND WELCOME THIS VERY SPECIAL PERSON IN

MY LIFE AND...

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF MR.

JONES, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, ELLA, TO THE

ASSEMBLY CHAMBER, THE -- THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, AND EXTEND TO YOU THE

PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. AND WE CAN ONE-UP YOU ON YOUR SNACK TRAVELS

AND HAVE UNLIMITED SNACKS IN THE MEMBER'S LOUNGE FOR YOU AS PART OF

YOUR PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. WE HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR TIME HERE WITH

US TODAY. ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE FAMILY MEMBERS HERE. THANK YOU FOR

SHARING YOUR DAD WITH US AND FOR JOINING US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

MS. ROMERO FOR THE PURPOSE OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. ROMERO: IT IS WITH SO MUCH PRIDE THAT I

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

INTRODUCE MY PARENTS, DORIS AND RENE TODAY. THEY ARE LIFELONG STATE

WORKERS, AND I WOULDN'T BE HERE TODAY WITHOUT THEIR SUPPORT, LOVE AND

INTENSITY. MANY PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT KNOW MY PARENTS. IT WAS MY

DAD IN THE CAR AND MY MOM ON THE DOORS THAT HELPED ME THROUGH MY

CAMPAIGN IN THE ASSEMBLY. THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT CAME UP TO

ME AND SAID, YOU KNOW, I MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH YOUR POLICIES BUT IT WAS

YOUR MOM THAT CONVINCED ME AT THE DOOR. AND REALLY, I -- I REALLY

WOULDN'T -- NOT BE HERE WITHOUT THEIR SUPPORT AND I'M SO, SO, SO GRATEFUL

FOR THE LOVE AND THE CARE THAT THEY GAVE ME THROUGHOUT THE MANY YEARS

OF MY LIFE AND I LOVE THEM VERY DEARLY. SO PLEASE GRANT THEM THE

CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE. AND THERE IS A FLAN FROM MY MOM IN THE

MEMBER'S LOUNGE, SO PLEASE GET A SMALL SLICE IF YOU'RE BACK THERE.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

ON BEHALF OF MS. ROMERO, THE SPEAKER AND ALL

MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, GRACIOUS PARENTS, TO OUR ASSEMBLY

CHAMBER AND EXTEND TO YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. WE APPRECIATE

YOUR GIFT OF YOUR DAUGHTER TO OUR ASSEMBLY CHAMBER. SHE'S BEEN A

WELCOME ADDITION. YOU DID A GREAT JOB. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR

ADVOCATING FOR HER TO BE HERE. WE HOPE YOU ENJOY THE PROCEEDINGS

HERE TODAY. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

(APPLAUSE)

MS. HOOKS FOR THE PURPOSE OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. HOOKS: MADAM SPEAKER, IT IS MY HONOR TO

RECOGNIZE SHAKIRA SMALLS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AND HER TEAM OF THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

LANGSTON HUGHES COMMUNITY LIBRARY AND CULTURAL CENTER IN CORONA,

QUEENS; A LIBRARY FOUNDED BY AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY WHO

WAS NOT WELCOMED AT THE LOCAL LIBRARY, CREATED THEIR OWN LIBRARY AND

WAS SUCCESSFUL THROUGH PURE GRASSROOTS ACTIVISM. THEY CREATED THE

BLACK HERITAGE REFERENCE CENTER OF QUEENS COUNTY, WHICH IS THE

LARGEST CIRCULATING COLLECTION OF THE AFRICAN DIA -- DIASPORA IN NEW

YORK CITY.

MISS SMALLS HAS SPENT OVER A DECADE WITH QUEENS

PUBLIC LIBRARY, ADVANCING EQUITY, LITERACY AND CULTURAL PRESERVATION.

UNDER HER LEADERSHIP, THE LANGSTON HUGHES LIBRARY, HOME TO ONE OF

THE NATION'S MOST SIGNIFICANT COLLECTIONS DEDICATED TO THE BLACK

EXPERIENCE, HAS FLOURISHED AS A VITAL CULTURAL INSTITUTION. HER WORK

ENSURES THAT FUTURE GENERATIONS HAVE ACCESS TO RICH HISTORIES, DIVERSE

VOICES AND INCLUSIVE PROGRAMMING THAT REFLECT THE FULL SPECTRUM OF OUR

COMMUNITIES.

LATER TODAY WE WILL ALSO BE ADOPTING A PRIVILEGED

RESOLUTION HONORING LANGSTON HUGHES COMMUNITY LIBRARY AND

CULTURAL CENTER ON ITS 56TH ANNIVERSARY AND ENDURING LEGACY AS A

CENTER OF BLACK LITERATURE, CULTURE AND COMMUNITY IN NEW YORK.

MADAM SPEAKER, PLEASE EXTEND SHAKIRA SMALLS AND

HER TEAM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF MS.

HOOKS, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, MISS SMALL

[SIC] AND TEAM TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF

THE FLOOR TO YOU. CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ANNIVERSARY OF THE LANGSTON

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

HUGHES COMMUNITY LIBRARY. A WONDERFUL ACCOMPLISHMENT AND A

GREAT TRIBUTE TO AND FOR OUR COMMUNITY. SO WE HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR

PROCEEDINGS TODAY, AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR JOINING US.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. SANTABARBARA FOR THE PURPOSE OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. SANTABARBARA: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. I RISE TODAY TO WELCOME MARY-ANNA SIMPSON FROM

AMSTERDAM ELK'S LODGE 101 TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER. SHE IS A PAST

EXALTED RULER. SHE IS JOINED TODAY BY HER DAUGHTER CAROLYN,

GRANDDAUGHTER MANGOLIA -- MAGNOLIA AND HER DEAR FRIEND DOLLY DYGER.

EARLIER THIS YEAR, THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY PASSED A

RESOLUTION HONORING HER HUSBAND, FREDERICK L. SIMPSON; A BRONZE STAR

RECIP -- RECIPIENT AND VIETNAM COMBAT VETERAN, A DEDICATED MEMBER OF

THE AMERICAN LEGION, VFW, DAV, AND OF COURSE THE AMSTERDAM ELKS

WHERE HE SERVED AS TILER, AND AS A CONSTANT PRESENT IN THE COMMUNITY

HE LOVED. FRED WAS A MAN OF QUIET STRENGTH AND HUMBLE SERVICE.

WHETHER THROUGH HIS MILITARY CAREER, HIS LOVE OF LATCH HOOKING, AND

MOST OF ALL, THE TIME HE SHARED WITH HIS FAMILY, HE GAVE HIMSELF

COMPLETELY. HIS GREATEST LEGACY LIVES ON WITH HIS WIFE MARY-ANNA, HIS

CHILDREN, GRANDCHILDREN, AND ALL THOSE WHOSE LIVES HE TOUCHED. TODAY

WE NOT ONLY HONOR THAT SERVICE AND SACRIFICE, WE ALSO CELEBRATE THE

FAMILY THAT CARRIES IT FORWARD.

MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE WELCOME

MARY-ANNA AND HER FAMILY AND HER FRIEND TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

AND OFFERING OUR SINCERE THANKS AND ADMIRATION FOR FRED -- FRED'S LIFE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

OF PATRIOTISM, PURPOSE AND LOVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF MR.

SANTABARBARA, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU,

MS.[SIC] SIMPSON, TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER ALONG WITH YOUR GUESTS

DOLLY AND CAROLYN AND MAGNOLIA TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER AND

EXTEND YOU THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR

SHARING THE LIFE AND LEGACY OF YOUR HUSBAND WITH OUR ASSEMBLY

CHAMBER. WE THANK HIM FOR HIS SERVICE AND FOR YOU CONTINUING THAT

SERVICE, AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

PAGE 27, CALENDAR NO. 91, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02278-A, CALENDAR

NO. 91, ROSENTHAL, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION

LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING PHARMACIES THAT ARE PERMANENTLY

DISCONTINUING TO NOTIFY CUSTOMERS OF SUCH DISCONTINUANCE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

ROSENTHAL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 29, CALENDAR NO. 158, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06634-A, RULES --

CALENDAR NO. 158, KIM, DAVILA, SHIMSKY, TAPIA, GLICK, KASSAY,

SANTABARBARA, REYES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PARKS, RECREATION AND

HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO MANDATING THE DEVELOPMENT

AND APPROVAL OF OPERATIONAL SAFETY PLANS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

KIM, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 341, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07618-C, RULES

REPORT NO. 341, LEE, DINOWITZ, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, EPSTEIN. AN ACT

TO AMEND THE ELECTION LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING THE BOARD OF

ELECTIONS IN A CITY WITH A POPULATION OF ONE MILLION OR MORE TO PROVIDE

CERTAIN NOTICES PRIOR TO A CHANGE OF POLLING PLACE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

LEE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 18, RULES REPORT NO. 652, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S01204, RULES REPORT NO.

652, SENATOR CLEARE (A05339, WRIGHT, LASHER, SEAWRIGHT, EPSTEIN,

FALL, GIBBS, GLICK, BORES, SIMONE, JACKSON, TAYLOR, DE LOS SANTOS,

LEE, ROSENTHAL). AN ACT DIRECTING THE METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION

AUTHORITY AND THE NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT AUTHORITY TO RENAME THE

110TH STREET-CENTRAL PARK NORTH SUBWAY STATION TO THE 110TH

STREET-MALCOLM X PLAZA STATION; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH

PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. WRIGHT TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. WRIGHT: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I -- I

RISE TODAY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE AND I AM IMPLORE TO YOU ALL TO CONSIDER

THE SIGNIFICANCE. IN A COUNTRY AND A PLACE THAT YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE

CHOSEN TO CALL HOME WHERE JUSTICE AND SAFETY IS AFFORDED TO EVERYONE

THAT'S NOT YOU, WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOUR DOLLAR DOES NOT HOLD UP TO YOUR

CHILDREN AND YOU'RE GUARANTEED NOTHING BUT AN UPHILL BATTLE, A MECCA

EMERGES FOR YOU. AND FOR MALCOLM X, THAT MECCA WAS HARLEM. AND

HARLEM'S HEARTBEAT IS CALLED LENOX AVENUE, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS

MALCOLM X BOULEVARD. AND A CITY CONSIDERED TO BE OF IMPORTANT

STREETS AND A WORLD OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN CULTURE, MALCOLM X'S HOME

WAS HARLEM. HE HONED HIS CRAFT PREACHING ON ITS STREETS. AND IN

HARLEM HE BEGAN HIS OWN RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION, AND IN THE AUDUBON

BALLROOM WHERE HE WAS ASSASSINATED AT 39 NOW BEARS HIS NAME. AND

SOON, TOO, WILL THE 110TH STREET TRAIN STATION, LENOX AVENUE TRAIN

STATION.

SO ALLOWING ALL TRANSIT RIDERS TO SHARE IN THE LEGACY OF

ONE OF NEW YORK'S GREATEST INDIVIDUALS, A SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF HARLEM

HISTORY, I AM PROUD TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I ENCOURAGE MY

COLLEAGUES TO DO SO AS WELL. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. WRIGHT IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 18, RULES REPORT NO. 654, THE CLERK WILL READ.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S06361-B, RULES REPORT

NO. 654, SENATOR BAILEY (A05886-C, CRUZ, LEE, GRIFFIN). AN ACT TO

AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING UNFAIR

RESIDENTIAL REAL ESTATE SERVICE AGREEMENTS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 18, RULES REPORT NO. 657, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06617-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 657, ZINERMAN. AN ACT DIRECTING THE METROPOLITAN

TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY TO RENAME THE UTICA AVENUE SUBWAY STATION

TO THE MALCOLM X BOULEVARD/UTICA AVENUE STATION; AND PROVIDES FOR

THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. ZINERMAN TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. ZINERMAN: DEAR COLLEAGUES, AND I RISE IN

SUPPORT AND PROUD SUPPORT OF MY BILL TO RENAME UTICA AVENUE TRAIN

STATION IN BROOKLYN TO MALCOLM X BOULEVARD AND UTICA AVENUE ON THE

SACRED OCCASION OF WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN HIS 100TH BIRTHDAY OF

MALCOLM X. THIS RENAMING IS NOT JUST SYMBOLIC, IT IS OVERDUE. IN

1985 THE PEOPLE OF BEDFORD-STUYVESANT SUCCESSFULLY RENAMED REID

AVENUE TO MALCOLM X BOULEVARD TO HONOR ONE OF THE MOST

TRANSFORMATIVE LEADERS OF THE 20TH CENTURY. BUT FOR NEARLY FOUR

DECADES, THE MTA STATION AT THE INTERSECTION CONTINUED TO BEAR ONLY

THE NAME OF UTICA AVENUE. TODAY WE SET THAT RECORD STRAIGHT. THIS

EFFORT IS THE RESULT OF TIRELESS COMMUNITY ORGANIZING, AND I WANT TO

UPLIFT THE NAME OF KAZEMBE BATTS AND THE DECEMBER 12TH MOVEMENT,

AS WELL AS THE MANY RESIDENTS, ELDERS, YOUTH WHO MARCHED, PETITIONED

AND NEVER CAME UP ON THIS VISION. THIS VICTORY BELONGS TO YOU.

MALCOLM X, EL-HAJJ MALIK EL-SHABAZZ, STOOD FOR TRUTH,

POWER AND THE LIBERATION OF BLACK PEOPLE ACROSS THE GLOBE. HIS NAME

AT THIS STATION WILL BE A DAILY REMINDER TO OUR YOUNG PEOPLE THAT THEY

COME FROM GREATNESS AND THAT THEY, TOO, CAN MAKE HISTORY.

I WANT TO THANK SPEAKER CARL HEASTIE FOR HIS STEADFAST

SUPPORT. AS -- AS THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN SPEAKER OF THIS BODY,

YOUR LEADERSHIP BRINGS AN ADDED WEIGHT AND PRIDE TO THIS MOMENT.

FINALLY, THIS ACT HONORS THE ENDURING CONNECTION

BETWEEN BROOKLYN AND HARLEM; TWO PILLARS OF BLACK CULTURE, RESISTANCE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AND ELEGANT -- AND EXCELLENCE. ELEGANCE, TOO. LET THIS RENAMING BE A

MODEL FOR WHAT WE CAN ACHIEVE WHEN WE WORK ACROSS DISTRICTS TO

PRESERVE OUR LEGACY AND TO UPLIFT OUR SHARED FUTURE.

I URGE YOUR SUPPORT AND I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. ZINERMAN IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 6, RULES REPORT NO. 287, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01095, RULES REPORT

NO. 287, MAGNARELLI, GLICK, LAVINE, BURDICK, WEPRIN, EPSTEIN,

SANTABARBARA, DAVILA, LEVENBERG, STECK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING MOTOR VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS

AND DEALERS FROM CHARGING A SUBSCRIPTION FEE FOR CERTAIN FUNCTIONS OF A

MOTOR VEHICLE AFTER THE VEHICLE IS SOLD.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MAGNARELLI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 321, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S04914-B, RULES REPORT

NO. 321, SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL (A05480-C, BRONSON, SIMON,

SIMONE, REYES, HEVESI, SHIMSKY, CLARK, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, LUNSFORD,

LEVENBERG, EPSTEIN, BURROUGHS, LASHER, R. CARROLL, ROMERO, MEEKS,

SHRESTHA, GALLAGHER, O'PHARROW, FORREST, GLICK, DINOWITZ, ROSENTHAL,

TORRES, MCDONALD, SEAWRIGHT, BURDICK, STECK, RAMOS, MCMAHON,

MAGNARELLI, EACHUS, KELLES, PAULIN, BORES, WOERNER, OTIS). AN ACT TO

AMEND THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND RULES, THE EDUCATION LAW, THE

PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, THE JUDICIARY LAW, THE INSURANCE LAW, THE GENERAL

BUSINESS LAW, THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW, THE EXECUTIVE LAW, THE

CIVIL RIGHTS LAW, AND THE FAMILY COURT ACT, IN RELATION TO PROTECTING

INDIVIDUALS WHO PROVIDE OR RECEIVE LEGALLY-PROTECTED HEALTH ACTIVITY

FROM CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LIABILITY OR PROFESSIONAL SANCTIONS IMPOSED BY

JURISDICTIONS OUTSIDE THE STATE; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE

CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW AND THE EXECUTIVE LAW RELATING THERETO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. BRONSON.

MR. BRONSON: YES, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS BILL

EXPANDS NEW YORK'S EXISTING SHIELD LAW BY EXPANDING PROTECTIONS

TO EXPLICITLY INCLUDE GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE AND REENFORCING THE LEGAL

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

INFRASTRUCTURE THAT SUPPORTS PROVIDERS, PATIENTS AND FACILITATORS OF

LEGALLY-PROVIDED HEALTHCARE. IT ENSURES THAT SENSITIVE HEALTH DATA HELD

BY PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS IS PROTECTED; PROHIBITS PARTICIPATION BY THOSE

PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS AND HOSTILE OUT-OF-STATE LEGAL ACTIONS; EMPOWERS

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO ACT; AND EXPANDS JURISDICTIONAL, PROCEDURAL

AND PROFESSIONAL SAFEGUARDS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. BRONSON: YES, I WILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO, INITIALLY I

WANTED TO NOTE THAT I BELIEVE IT WAS EARLIER THIS SESSION WE PASSED A

BILL, ASSEMBLY BILL 5285, A -- A DIFFERENT SPONSOR, AND THAT HAD TO DO

SPECIFICALLY WITH ABORTION PROVIDERS IN OUR STATE AND SHIELDING THEM

FROM OUT-OF-STATE, YOU KNOW, ACTION AGAINST THEM WHETHER IT WAS

CRIMINAL OR CIVIL. AND HOW DOES THIS BILL -- DOES THIS BILL REPRESENT AN

EXPANSION OF THAT LEGISLATION, WHICH I THINK HAS ALREADY BEEN SIGNED BY

THE GOVERNOR?

MR. BRONSON: IT -- IT -- IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY

ADDRESS THOSE. THIS ADDRESSES SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ISSUES. WE DO EXPAND

CERTAIN TYPES OF PROVIDERS THAT WOULD BE PROTECTED VERSUS WHAT IS

CURRENT LAW. BUT WE ALSO ARE MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE PROTECTING THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

HEALTH DATA AND INFORMATION THAT PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS MAY HAVE.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO DOES THIS BILL IMPACT ONLY

THOSE WHO ARE PROVIDING GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE OR DOES IT ALSO INCLUDE

THOSE WHO ARE PROVIDING ABORTION SERVICES?

MR. BRONSON: YES. THROUGH YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER, THIS BILL CREATES A DEFINITION OF LEGALLY HEALTH [SIC] PROTECTED

SERVICES, AND THAT WILL INCLUDE REPRODUCTIVE SERVICES AS WELL AS GENDER-

AFFIRMING CARE. WHEN WE PASSED THE SHIELD ACTS IN 2022 AND 2023,

UNFORTUNATELY WE CREATED A -- A DISCONNECT OR A CONFLICT IN OUR STATUTES.

SO WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT TRIES TO CLEAN THAT UP AND PUTS BOTH OF THOSE

TYPES OF HEALTHCARE SERVICES IN A DEFINITION INDICATING THAT THEY'RE

LEGALLY-PROTECTED SERVICES, AND THEN WE MAKE REFERENCE TO THE VARIOUS

PROTECTIONS TO THAT DEFINITION.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO, YES. AND I NOTED THAT THE

2022 CHAPTER 143, WHICH WAS YOUR BILL AS WELL, TO ESSENTIALLY MAKE

NEW YORK A SANCTUARY STATE FOR GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE BY WELCOMING

OUT-OF-STATE ACTORS TO RECEIVE GENDER-RELATED TREATMENTS IN THE STATE.

THAT LAW PROHIBITS LAW ENFORCEMENT FROM COOPERATING WITH OR

PROVIDING INFORMATION TO OUT-OF-STATE AGENCIES RELATED TO

GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE SERVICES. IS THAT ACCURATE?

MR. BRONSON: SO THROUGH YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, I

THINK THE USE OF THE PHRASE "SANCTUARY STATE" IS PROBLEMATIC. WHAT

WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS PROTECT PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEKING, PROVIDING, OR

FACILITATING THE PROVIDING OF LEGALLY HEALTHCARE -- LEGAL HEALTHCARE HERE

IN THE STATE. WE WANT TO PROTECT PEOPLE WHO ARE RECEIVING THAT CARE IN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE STATE, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE FOLKS ARE NOT

PROSECUTED EITHER CIVILLY OR CRIMINALLY BY HOSTILE STATES WHO HAVE A

DIFFERENT POLICY POSITION THAN WE DO HERE IN THIS STATE.

MS. WALSH: SO ONE -- AND I -- I -- I APPRECIATE

WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. AND PARDON MY LACK OF UNDERSTANDING ON THIS, BUT

I UNDERSTAND THAT IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ABORTION SERVICES, THERE'S

SOMEBODY -- A DOCTOR COULD BE IN NEW YORK STATE AND THROUGH

TELEHEALTH PRESCRIBE MEDICATION TO BE TAKEN BY SOMEBODY IN A DIFFERENT

STATE TO RESULT IN AN ABORTION. BUT FOR GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE, IS -- IS

THAT THE CASE AS WELL, OR ARE WE ONLY TALKING ABOUT SPECIFICALLY SURGICAL

CHANGES WHICH I -- I WOULD ASSUME NOT, YOU KNOW, THAT WAY?

MR. BRONSON: GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE IS MUCH

BROADER THAN SURGICAL CARE. IT COULD BE HORMONAL TREATMENT --

MS. WALSH: YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.

MR. BRONSON: -- IT COULD BE HORMONAL BLOCKERS.

IT CAN BE A LOT -- IT COULD BE THERAPY. IT COULD BE A LOT OF DIFFERENT

THINGS. WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE, WHETHER IT'S REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH OR

GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE, IS SAYING THAT IF YOU ARE PROVIDING THAT CARE HERE

IN NEW YORK STATE AND IT'S LEGAL CARE, EVEN IF IT'S TELEMEDICINE, TO

SOMEBODY OUTSIDE THE STATE THAT THAT PHYSICIAN AND ANY FACILITATORS OF

PROVIDING THAT CARE WILL BE PROTECTED BY NEW YORK STATE LAW. AND WE

EVEN GO FURTHER -- THROUGH YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, WE EVEN GO FURTHER

AND WE -- WE CREATE A CONFLICTS OF LAW SITUATION WHERE WE DEEM THAT

THE LAWS OF NEW YORK STATE WOULD APPLY IN THOSE SITUATIONS.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO -- (COUGHING) -- EXCUSE ME.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SO AS WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING, THE -- IF IT IS SOMETHING LIKE A HORMONE

BLOCKER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE MEDICATION THAT COULD BE

PRESCRIBED THROUGH TELEHEALTH OUT-OF-STATE THEN THAT WOULD BE COVERED

UNDER THIS -- UNDER THIS LEGISLATION. AND ALSO ANY SURGICAL TREATMENTS

TO SUPPORT GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE THAT WOULD BE ACTUALLY PERFORMED IN

NEW YORK STATE?

MR. BRONSON: YES. WE -- THE INTENTION OF THE

LAW IS TO PROTECT THAT, AS WELL AS IT WAS FOR REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH IN THE

PREVIOUS LAW, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, GOING THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM AS

WE SPEAK.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. YES, IT IS.

SO HOW ABOUT -- AND THIS MIGHT -- THIS MIGHT BE NOT

EVEN A THING THAT REALLY HAPPENS, BUT WHAT IF YOU HAD A NEW YORK

STATE DOCTOR TRAVEL TO ANOTHER STATE TO ACTUALLY PERFORM A SURGERY THAT

WOULD BE -- COME UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE.

WOULD THAT BE ENCOMPASSED BY THIS LEGISLATION AS WELL TO SHIELD THAT

DOCTOR?

MR. BRONSON: IT WOULD NOT.

MS. WALSH: OKAY.

MR. BRONSON: IT HAS TO BE SERVICES PROVIDED

WITHIN THE STATE, AND THEY HAVE TO BE LEGAL SERVICES PURSUANT TO NEW

YORK STATE LAW.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. VERY GOOD.

NOW, COULD WE PLEASE TALK ABOUT THE -- THE ACTUAL

RESPONSE THAT WILL BE HAD THEN? THERE MAY BE SUBPOENAS THAT MAY BE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SERVED UPON A PROVIDER IN NEW YORK STATE OR -- IN ORDER TO COMPEL

TESTIMONY. SO COULD YOU JUST DISCUSS FOR A MOMENT ABOUT HOW THOSE

WILL BE TREATED UNDER THIS LEGISLATION?

MR. BRONSON: SURE. SO WHETHER IT'S A -- A

SUBPOENA OR IN A CIVIL ACTION AN INFORMATION INSTRUMENT, WE ARE

REQUIRING UNDER THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT THAT SUBPOENA OR THE

INFORMATIONAL INSTRUMENT WOULD HAVE AN AFFIRMATION ATTACHED TO IT IN

ORDER TO BE ENFORCEABLE. AND THAT AFFIRMATION HAS TO DECLARE THAT THE

PURPOSE OF THE SUBPOENA OR INFORMATIONAL INSTRUMENT IS NOT TO PURSUE A

CRIMINAL OR CIVIL ACTION AGAINST A PERSON HERE IN NEW YORK STATE WHO

HAS EITHER RECEIVED, PROVIDED OR FACILITATED LEGALLY-PROTECTED HEALTHCARE

HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. AND FOR VIOLATING THESE

REQUIREMENTS THERE WILL BE A -- THE BILL IMPOSES A $15,000 PENALTY PER

VIOLATION OF SUBMITTING A FALSE AFFIRMATION IF THE COURT FINDS THAT IT WAS

MADE INTENTIONALLY, KNOWINGLY, WILLINGLY OR RECKLESSLY?

MR. BRONSON: THROUGH YOU, MADAM SPEAKER,

THAT'S CORRECT. SORRY.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. AND WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE

ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS?

MR. BRONSON: WE ARE GIVING THE ATTORNEY

GENERAL AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE THESE -- THIS LAW IF IT'S SIGNED BY THE

GOVERNOR, WHICH I CERTAINLY HOPE IT IS, AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WILL

BE ABLE TO BRING CASES IN CONNECTION WITH THE SUBPOENAS AND

INFORMATIONAL INSTRUMENTS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. WALSH: NOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE PREVIOUS

LEGISLATION FROM EARLIER IN THIS SESSION, THAT -- THAT EARLIER ASSEMBLY

BILL, THAT THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING TESTED IN THE -- IN THE COURTS?

MR. BRONSON: YES.

MS. WALSH: OKAY.

MR. BRONSON: I BELIEVE IT WAS A SITUATION WHERE

ABORTION MEDICATION WAS PRESCRIBED BY A PHYSICIAN HERE TO SOMEBODY

THROUGH TELEMEDICINE TO SOMEBODY OUTSIDE THE STATE.

MS. WALSH: WAS THAT THE -- THERE WAS A CASE

INVOLVING LOUISIANA, I BELIEVE. THERE WAS -- THERE WAS A SITUATION. I

DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS THAT ONE. THERE WERE A COUPLE I THINK I

MENTIONED ON THAT DEBATE.

MR. BRONSON: YEAH. THERE -- THERE'S A COUPLE. I

CAN'T SPEAK TO THEM OFF -- OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD HERE TODAY.

MS. WALSH: NO, I -- I APPRECIATE THAT. I -- I WAS

JUST CURIOUS MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

I -- I WAS WONDERING, I GUESS, BY THE WAY OF QUESTION

WHY YOU THOUGHT IT BEST TO ADVANCE THIS BILL NOW WHEN WE HAVE

ONGOING LITIGATION THAT MAY HAVE AN IMPACT. SO IF YOU COULD SPEAK TO

THAT.

MR. BRONSON: ABSOLUTELY. THROUGH YOU, MR.

SPEAKER, IT'S BECAUSE OF THE HOSTILE NATURE AND THE CONTEXT IN WHICH WE

LIVE. IT'S BECAUSE THERE ARE STATES, AND TO SOME DEGREE, A FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT THAT HAS CHOSEN TO GO CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC POLICY OF THIS

STATE. PUBLIC POLICY, WHICH I WOULD REITERATE, WAS JUST REAFFIRMED

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THROUGH A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT LAST NOVEMBER BY THE VOTERS, AND

THAT IS WE HOLD DEAR THE RIGHT OF WOMEN TO BODILY AUTONOMY AND

REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE. WE HOLD DEAR THE RIGHT OF THE LGBTQ+

COMMUNITY TO LIVE AUTHENTICALLY. AND IF THEY CHOOSE, A TRANS MEMBER

OF THE COMMUNITY TO GO THROUGH GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE, THAT WE ARE

GOING TO PROTECT THEM AND THEIR PROVIDERS AND THEIR FAMILIES AND OTHERS

IN THAT SITUATION. SO THE WHY IS QUITE SIMPLY THAT WE'RE IN HOSTILE

TERRITORY HERE BY SOME OTHER STATES AND BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR

ANSWERS.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER DILAN: ON THE BILL.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU. SO I THINK THAT THAT LAST

RESPONSE REALLY DOES KIND OF SET THE TABLE FOR WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING

TODAY. AND OF COURSE IF THIS BILL IS PASSED TODAY AND IT -- IT IS SIGNED BY

THE GOVERNOR, THEN ANYONE WHO IS BRINGING ANY KIND OF LAWSUITS TO

CHALLENGE THAT EARLIER LEGISLATION CAN SIMPLY AMEND AND ADD THIS ONE,

TOO, ONTO THE PILE. BECAUSE THIS -- THIS -- IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE LAST BILL,

AND THE VOTE WAS 96 TO 51, YOU'RE NOT GONNA LIKE THIS ONE EITHER,

BECAUSE IT -- IT JUST SIMPLY EXPANDS OUR SHIELD LAWS TO ENCOMPASS

MORE THINGS. AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THERE ARE -- THERE ARE CONCERNS

THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED ABOUT BOTH REPRODUCTIVE SERVICES, ABORTION

SERVICES AND ALSO GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE, AND SHIELDING THOSE

PHYSICIANS OR MEDICAL PEOPLE THAT ARE PROVIDING THIS FROM -- FROM

BEING KNOWN EVEN WHO THEY ARE. AND IN THE -- IN THE PRIOR DEBATE THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

WE HAD, WHICH I DIDN'T FEEL A NEED TO GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH AGAIN, BUT

THERE'S A -- THERE IS A CONCERN, THERE'S A DOWNSIDE TO SHIELDING

PRACTITIONERS FROM EVEN BEING KNOWN WHO THEY ARE. BECAUSE IF

SOMETHING GOES WRONG, IT -- IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO TRACK DOWN WHO

THAT -- WHO THAT PHYSICIAN OR PROVIDER IS.

SO JUST AS WE, MANY OF US IN A BIPARTISAN WAY OPPOSED

THE PREVIOUS BILL, I WOULD EXPECT THAT WE WILL -- WE WILL HAVE SIMILAR

OPPOSITION TODAY, AND I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS LEGISLATION. I WOULD

CERTAINLY ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ALSO VOTE NO. THANK YOU VERY

MUCH, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER DILAN: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MR. SPEAKER, IF YOU

WOULD PLEASE CALL THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S

CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER DILAN: WAYS AND MEANS,

SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. IMMEDIATE WAYS AND MEANS, SPEAKER'S

CONFERENCE ROOM.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER DILAN: A PARTY VOTE HAS BEEN

REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. IF THERE ARE ANY AFFIRMATIVE VOTES THEY CAN BE CAST NOW AT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MEMBERS' DESKS. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER DILAN: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, SIR. THE

MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION;

HOWEVER THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.

THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO.

ACTING SPEAKER DILAN: THE CLERK WILL RECORD

THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BRONSON TO

EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BRONSON: YES, MADAM SPEAKER. I ABSTAIN ON

MY VOTE FOR THE PURPOSES OF EXPLAINING MY VOTE.

THIS BILL IS VITALLY NECESSARY AND IMPORTANT.

REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM AND GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE AND GENDER JUSTICE

ARE UN -- UNDER UNPRECEDENTED ATTACK NOT ONLY FROM OTHER STATES IN OUR

UNION, BUT ALSO FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. INDIVIDUALS WHO

CHOOSE TO MAKE BODILY AUTONOMY CHOICES AND TO LIVE AUTHENTICALLY

DESERVE PROTECTIONS OF NEW YORK STATE. IN FACT, LAST NOVEMBER WE

ENSHRINED IN OUR CONSTITUTION REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS. WE ENSHRINED IN

OUR CONSTITUTION SEX -- SEXUAL ORIENTATION RIGHTS AND GENDER-AFFIRMING

CARE RIGHTS THROUGH GENDER IDENTITY. WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO HAVE LAWS

THAT FULFILL OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS. WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO

HAVE LAWS THAT SEE THE HUMANITY, THE DIGNITY OF EVERY HUMAN BEING.

WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO HAVE LAWS HERE IN NEW YORK STATE THAT LOOKS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AT OUR DIVERSITY AS OUR STRENGTH, AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HONOR OUR

DIVERSITY, WE HONOR ALL PEOPLE FOR THEIR HUMANITY AND THEIR DIGNITY.

FOR THOSE REASONS, MADAM SPEAKER, I PROUDLY VOTE IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BRONSON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 9, RULES REPORT NO. 406, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08295-D, RULES

REPORT NO. 406, OTIS, MCDONALD, SIMON, COLTON, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS,

SHRESTHA, SMITH, LUNSFORD, LEVENBERG, SHIMSKY, PAULIN, KASSAY,

MCMAHON, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE TECHNOLOGY LAW,

THE EDUCATION LAW AND THE CIVIL SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTOMATED

DECISION-MAKING BY GOVERNMENT AGENCIES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

OTIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. OTIS.

MR. OTIS: THANK YOU. THIS BILL FOLLOWS ON A BILL

THAT WE PASSED LAST YEAR WITH SORT OF THE BEGINNING OF A FRAMEWORK OF A

STATE AGENCY GUIDANCE AND OVERSIGHT AND TRANSPARENCY, ESPECIALLY FOR

THE USES OF AI TOOLS IN, IN THIS CASE, STATE, LOCAL GOVERNMENT, SCHOOL

DISTRICTS. AND -- AND -- AND WHAT THE BILL DOES IS IT BASICALLY PROVIDES

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

FOR DISCLOSURE OF AI TOOLS THAT ARE USED; A -- A -- ASSESSMENT IMPACT

STATEMENT OF THOSE TOOLS THAT ARE USED POSTING ON WEBSITES; GUIDANCE BY

THE OFFICE OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY SERVICES ON THESE KINDS OF TOOLS.

AND WHY IT IS NECESSARY IS BECAUSE AI IS GONNA TO BE WITH US, WE ALL

KNOW THAT. BUT WE REALLY NEED THE GUARDRAILS, GUIDANCE TO MAKE SURE

THAT IF YOU'RE A STATE AGENCY OR A LOCAL AGENCY USING AI THAT YOU'RE

USING IT INTELLIGENTLY, YOU KNOW THAT THE TOOL THAT YOU'RE USING IS OF

GOOD QUALITY, AND IS -- THIS IS TO PROTECT THE QUALITY OF WORK BY

GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES AND PROTECT THE PUBLIC AND ACTUALLY HELP

GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES DO THIS WORK BETTER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. GANDOLFO.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR PLEASE YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

MR. OTIS: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GANDOLFO: AND THANK YOU FOR THAT

EXPLANATION.

SO MY FIRST QUESTION WOULD BE, ARE ANY OF THESE

AUTOMATED AI-BASED DECISION-MAKING TOOLS CURRENTLY BEING USED IN

STATE GOVERNMENT OR ARE THEY UBIQUITOUS THROUGHOUT COUNTY OR LOCAL

GOVERNMENTS?

MR. OTIS: WELL, WE'RE NOT TOTALLY SURE, WHICH IS ONE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

OF THE REASONS WHY THE BILL IS SO IMPORTANT. WHAT WE DID LAST YEAR WAS

WE IMPOSED THESE GUIDELINES FOR A STATE GOV -- STATE AGENCIES AS IT

RELATES TO EMPLOYMENT DECISIONS, SORT OF NARROW. THIS BROADENS IT TO

ALL AI USE, BUT IS VERY SIMILAR. I WILL SAY THAT LAST YEAR WE DID A CHAPTER

AMENDMENT PROCESS, AND SO WE SORT OF NARROWED DOWN THE SCOPE OF

THIS TO MOSTLY A TRANSPARENCY AND DISCLOSURE PROCESS. AND THAT'S WHAT

THIS BILL DOES, BUT FOR ALL GOVERNMENT USE.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. AND THE DISCLOSURE ITSELF,

WHERE IS THAT POSTED?

MR. OTIS: THAT WOULD BE POSTED ON -- WELL, THERE --

THERE ARE TWO PIECES TO THIS. POST IT ON THE STATE AGENCY WEBSITE, BUT

THE -- THE ITS IS GOING TO -- A STATE AGENCY WEBSITE OR LOCAL AGENCY

WEBSITE THEY WOULD POST WHAT THEY'RE USING. THEY WOULD ALSO POST

THEIR IMPACT ASSESSMENTS AS WELL. THERE'S A DIFFERENT TIME FRAME FOR

EACH.

MR. GANDOLFO: WOULD IT -- WOULD A DISCLOSURE

HAVE TO BE MADE, SAY, IF A LOCAL GOVERNMENT LIST -- HAD A LISTING ON A

JOB -- A THIRD-PARTY WEBSITE LIKE AN INDEED.COM? WOULD THERE HAVE TO

BE A DISCLOSURE THAT THEY WERE USING THIS KIND OF DECISION-MAKING TOOL

IN THE PROCESS?

MR. OTIS: EXPLAIN THE SCENARIO TO ME.

MR. GANDOLFO: THERE'S A GOVERNMENT JOB LISTING

THAT'S ON A THIRD-PARTY WEBSITE. NOT DIRECTLY THROUGH AN AGENCY OR A

DEPARTMENT, BUT IT'S ON A THIRD-PARTY JOB WEBSITE THAT'S NOT MAINTAINED

BY A GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY. WOULD THAT STILL REQUIRE A DISCLOSURE?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. OTIS: I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. OTIS: I MEAN IT -- IT -- THEY'RE -- THEY'RE

CONTRACTING OUT WITH A THIRD-PARTY TO DO THIS, I WOULD SAY THE ANSWER IS

YES. BUT THE PRIMARY PURPOSE HERE IS MORE THE GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY IS

USING A TOOL, WE WANT THEM TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE USING. WE ALSO WANT

THE PUBLIC TO BE ABLE TO SAY IF YOU POST AND WERE USING THIS TOOL, THE

TRANSPARENCY PART IS THERE MAY BE SOMEBODY OUT IN THE PUBLIC THAT SAYS,

HEY, YOU'RE USING THAT TOOL AND CALL THE STATE OR LOCAL OFFICIAL AND SAY,

HEY, THAT TOOL IS VERY FLAWED. HERE'S WHY YOU SHOULD RECONSIDER USING

IT. SO IT ACTUALLY IS INVOLVING THE PUBLIC IN SOME LEVEL OF QUALITY

CONTROL AS IT RELATES TO THIS.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY, I WAS -- I -- I PHRASED MY

QUESTION A LITTLE POORLY. I DON'T MEAN JOBS THAT ARE CONTRACTED OUT. I

MEAN, IF SAY THERE'S A CLERK/TYPIST POSITION AVAILABLE FOR A LOCAL

GOVERNMENT AND THEY HAVE IT LISTED ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE, THE LOCAL

MUNICIPALITY'S WEBSITE. BUT THEY ALSO HAVE THAT LISTING ON AN

INDEED.COM. SO THEY HAVE A JOB POSTING THAT WOULD REFER THEM OVER TO

THE WEBSITE MAYBE TO FILL OUT THE APPLICATION, BUT ON THE LISTING IT'S THE

JOB POSTING ITSELF WHERE THEY'RE SEEKING RESUM S.

MR. OTIS: I'M MISSING THE AI PIECE OF THIS.

MR. GANDOLFO: AND THE STATE OR THE MUNICIPALITY

IS USING ONE OF THESE TOOLS IN THE ULTIMATE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS.

BECAUSE FROM YOUR ANSWER ON THE DISCLOSURE EARLIER, I TOOK IT TO MEAN

THAT IF AN AI DECISION-MAKING TOOL IS BEING USED THAT THEY MUST

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

DISCLOSE IT ON ANY JOB LISTINGS FOR THAT PARTICULAR POSITION. DID -- DID I

HAVE THAT CORRECT?

MR. OTIS: I'M NOT -- I THINK THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT

A DIFFERENT ANIMAL, SO --

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO THIS IS JUST DISCLOSURE

TO WHOM THEN? IF I COULD JUST MOVE BACK.

MR. OTIS: WHAT THIS IS IS IF YOU'RE A GOVERNMENTAL

ENTITY AND YOU'RE USING AN AI TOOL, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LIST THAT

YOU'RE USING -- LIST THE TOOLS YOU'RE USING. YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO LIST THE

ASSESSMENT, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE SOME REDACTION OPTIONS --

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. OTIS: -- IN SENSITIVE SITUATIONS AND -- AND THINGS

LIKE THAT. SO YOU MAY BE TALKING ABOUT A DIFFERENT ANIMAL.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY, I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR

ANSWER BEFORE. SO THIS IS LISTING ON THE WEBSITE, THESE ARE THE TOOLS WE

USE. IT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO A CERTAIN JOB OPENING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

MR. OTIS: CORRECT.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY, GREAT. OKAY. THAT WAS

REALLY ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAD. THANK YOU, MR. OTIS.

MR. OTIS: MY PLEASURE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BLUMENCRANZ.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THANK YOU. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

MR. OTIS: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

YIELD?

THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO JUST -- I GUESS LAST YEAR

AND I GUESS THIS YEAR WITH SOME AMENDMENTS TO IT WE LOOKED AT THE

LOADING ACT. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT SOME DIFFERENCES TO HOW SOME OF

THE PARALLEL LANGUAGE HERE WORKS VERSUS WITHIN THE LOADING ACT?

MR. OTIS: DIFFERENCES IN?

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THE WAY -- SO BOTH BILLS

DEAL WITH DISCLOSURE, CORRECT, WITH THE USAGE OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IN

GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS, CORRECT?

MR. OTIS: WELL, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IN THE

AUTOMATED DECISION-MAKING TOOL DEFINITION IS BECAUSE LAST YEAR'S WAS

RELATED TO EMPLOYMENT DECISIONS BY STATE GOVERNMENT, THE WORD

"MATERIALLY" WAS USED. REALLY NOT APPROPRIATE IN THIS BROADER BILL

WHICH IS ASKING FOR DISCLOSURE BY STATE AND LOCAL AGENCY USE OF AI

TOOLS. SO THE -- THE DEFINITION IS MISSING A WORD BECAUSE IT --

"MATERIALLY" DIDN'T APPLY TO THIS BILL.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I -- I ASK BECAUSE THAT -- THAT

PIECE --

MR. OTIS: (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: -- OF LEGISLATION --

MR. OTIS: JOKE THERE, SO...

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THIS -- IN THIS BILL IT DOESN'T

JUST END AT -- AT STATE AGENCIES. THIS IS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, BOCES,

SUNY, CUNY, ET CETERA, ALL HAVE TO COMPLY UNDER THIS DEFINITION WITH

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THIS LEVEL OF DISCLOSURE FOR AUTOMATED DECISION-MAKING USAGE WITHIN

THEIR RESPECTIVE TOWN, VILLAGE OPERATIONS, CORRECT?

MR. OTIS: YES, AND I THINK THAT'S A VERY POSITIVE

THING. I WAS A MAYOR FOR 12 YEARS, AND IF I WERE A MAYOR NOW AND MY

LOCAL GOVERNMENT WAS TO BE USING AN AI TOOL, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT

WE HAVE THE PROTECTIONS, TRANSPARENCY IN A PLACE TO MAKE SURE WE

KNOW WHAT WE'RE USING AND WE'RE USING IT CORRECTLY, IT DOESN'T INCLUDE

BIAS. AND SO I THINK THIS IS A -- A GOOD ASSIST TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT,

SCHOOL DISTRICTS, OTHER ENTITIES.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO HOW ARE LOCAL SCHOOL

DISTRICTS, A, GONNA KNOW ABOUT THE NEED TO NOW COMPLY IF THEY ARE

USING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IN SOME CAPACITY IN THEIR DECISION-MAKING;

AND B, WHAT THAT COMPLIANCE MAY LOOK LIKE FOR THEM UNDER THIS

LEGISLATION?

MR. OTIS: WELL, AS WITH ALL LEGISLATION THAT THE

LEGISLATURE PASSES AND THE GOVERNOR SIGNS, THERE FOLLOWS UP WITH

COMMUNICATIONS ABOUT A NEW LAW IS IN PLACE AND -- AND HERE'S WHAT

YOU WOULD DO TO COMPLY.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: NOW, THERE WAS CONCERNS

WITH THE LOADING ACT WITH SIMILAR LANGUAGE, SIMILAR COMPLIANCE FOR

STATE AGENCIES. THAT WAS AMENDED AFTER SOME CONSIDERATION AND

DISCUSSIONS. A LOT OF THOSE CONSIDERATIONS HAVEN'T NECESSARILY BEEN

TAKEN IN THIS FORM AS FAR AS THAT ORIGINAL LANGUAGE THAT WAS REMOVED

FROM THE LOADING ACT IS NOW HERE, NOT JUST FOR STATE AGENCIES, BUT

FOR ALL GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES THAT WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY. YOU DON'T

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THINK THERE WILL BE AN ISSUE HERE, BUT WHEN IT CAME TO THE DECISION-

MAKING TOOLS IN HIRING AND FIRING, THOSE CONSIDERATIONS WERE -- WERE --

WERE CERTAINLY THERE AND WERE CERTAINLY REMOVED FROM THE LEGISLATION

WE DEALT WITH EARLIER THIS YEAR.

MR. OTIS: I -- I DON'T AGREE WITH THE ASSUMPTION OF

YOUR QUESTION. HAVING BEEN VERY INVOLVED IN THE CHAPTER AMENDMENT

PROCESS ON LAST YEAR'S BILL, WE'RE ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THE FORMAT FOR

BROADER USES, BUT THE FORMAT OF WHAT WE AGREED TO LAST YEAR FOR

EMPLOYMENT DECISIONS ONLY. AND SO I -- I THINK IT'S SORT OF A -- A

COMFORTABLE MOVE. THIS IS NOT LAST YEAR'S BILL THAT -- PRE-CHAPTER

AMENDMENTS. THIS IS SIMILAR IN TERMS OF WHAT THE -- THE DIFFERENT

DISCLOSURES ARE, THE DIFFERENT POSTINGS, THE ASSESSMENT, TO WHAT WAS

AGREED UPON WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IN THE CHAPTER AMENDMENTS.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO YOU MENTIONED WITHIN

THIS BILL PERFORMING ANY FUNCTION. SO THIS LEGISLATION PROHIBITS THE USE

OF AUTOMATED DECISION-MAKING IN THE ABSENCE OF CONTINUED AND

OPERATIONAL MEANINGFUL HUMAN REVIEW IN THE PERFORMANCE OF ANY

FUNCTION. DOES THAT SEEM TO FALL IN LINE WITH YOUR -- YOUR

UNDERSTANDING OF THE DEFINITION HERE?

MR. OTIS: WELL, I -- I THINK THAT THAT LANGUAGE

RELATES TO THE PRINCIPLE THAT WE IT THINK THAT IT WOULD BE GOOD PRACTICE IF

YOU'RE USING AN AUTOMATED DECISION-MAKING TOOL THAT -- THAT WE

MAINTAIN HUMAN OVERSIGHT AND -- AND CONTACT WITH THE OPERATION OF THAT

TOOL. SO THAT'S WHAT THAT LANGUAGE IS. AND THAT IS A GOOD PRACTICE WITH

ALL THE CONCERNS THAT ARE RAISED AROUND THE WORLD ABOUT THE BAD SIDES OF

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AI COUPLED WITH THE GOOD SIDES OF AI. THE FACT THAT WE HAVE

CONTINUED HUMAN MONITORING OF WHAT WE'RE USING IS A POSITIVE THING

AND SOMETHING WE ENCOURAGE, AND THAT'S WHAT THE LANGUAGE IN THE BILL

PROVIDES.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: I DON'T MEAN TO HONE IN ON

THIS DEFINITION SO MUCH, BUT THERE ARE SOME IMPORTANT COMPONENTS THAT

I THINK BRING AWARENESS TO THIS QUESTION. SO WE HAVE NUMEROUS PUBLIC

ASSISTANCE BENEFITS PROGRAMS HERE IN NEW YORK STATE THAT COULD

SERIOUSLY AND HAVE SERIOUSLY BENEFITTED FROM THE USE OF ARTIFICIAL

INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS MAKING NOT CONSEQUENTIAL DECISIONS, BUT MAKING

DECISIONS IN THE PROCESS TO SPEED UP THE USE OF SERVICES. YOU HAVE

SNAP, HEAP, TEMPORARY ASSISTANCE, LOW-INCOME HOUSEHOLD WATER

ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS. THESE PROGRAMS SOMETIMES HAVE SERIOUS

BACKLOGS. MANY OF THE MEMBERS HERE HAVE DEALT WITH HELPING

CONSTITUENTS WITH THESE PROGRAMS THAT HAVE DEALT WITH LONG WAIT LISTS

AND THINGS THAT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE MAKING DETERMINATIONS AS TO HOW

FORMS ARE CORRECTLY FILLED OUT AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT THAT CAN

APPROVE THEM FOR THE NEXT STEP, NEXT LEVEL. WILL ALL OF THAT BE PULLED

INTO QUESTION AS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE ADVANCED WITH NEW

TECHNOLOGIES WITH THE PASSAGE OF THIS LEGISLATION?

MR. OTIS: ABSOLUTELY NOT. AND -- AND SO WHAT THIS

BILL DOES IS -- IS REALLY -- THIS IS A QUALITY CONTROL BILL. AND SO I WOULD

-- MY BELIEF IS THAT THE BILL WILL ACTUALLY HELP THOSE KINDS OF FUNCTIONS

PROCEED AND ADVANCE THEM, AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE USED -- USED

CORRECTLY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO HOW WILL ALLOWING A

LEVEL OF -- OF RED TAPE AND COMPLIANCE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WHO ARE

JUST TRYING TO ADMINISTER STATE PROGRAMS, SOMETIMES SEVERELY

BACKLOGGED, ADDING MORE WORK FOR THEM TO CREATE ABILITIES FOR THEM TO

DO THAT WORK FOR THE PEOPLE FASTER? HOW IS THAT GONNA MAKE THIS AN

EASIER PROCESS FOR THEM?

MR. OTIS: WELL, I -- I DON'T -- YOU HAD SOME NICE

CHOICES OF PEJORATIVE WORDS IN THERE, RED TAPE AND -- AND WHAT LIKE.

BUT I -- I -- I -- I HAVE A TOTALLY OPPOSITE TAKE. IF -- IF THERE ARE SERVICES

AND BENEFITS THAT ARE BEING USED TODAY WITH THE BENEFIT OF AN AI

SYSTEM, DON'T WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE NOT -- THAT THEY'RE

FUNCTIONING CORRECTLY, THEY DON'T PERPETUATE BIAS, THAT THEY'RE -- THEY'RE

ACCURATE? SO THIS IS -- THIS IS -- IT WILL ADVANCE THE CAUSE OF USING AI IN

A POSITIVE WAY AND PROVIDE THE KIND OF QUALITY CONTROL THAT -- WHETHER

YOU'RE IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR OR WHETHER YOU'RE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. IF

YOU'RE A PRIVATE COMPANY AND YOU'RE USING AI TOOLS, YOU SHOULD WANT

TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY FUNCTION THE WAY THAT ARE INTENDED. THAT YOU

ARE MONITORING HOW THEY FUNCTION TO MAKE SURE THEY CONTINUE TO

FUNCTION THE WAY THAT THE COMPANY INTENDS IT TO BE USED, AND -- AND TO

BE ABLE TO PIVOT WHEN YOU FIND OUT THAT IT'S NOT HAPPENING AS INTENDED.

I THINK HERE IN NEW YORK STATE, AROUND THE COUNTRY AND AROUND THE

WORLD, THIS IS THE TEST TO MAKE SURE THAT AI IS USED APPROPRIATELY AS

OPPOSED TO BE USED IN A WAY THAT -- THAT COULD BE RECKLESS AND -- AND

DAMAGING.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO WHO BEARS THE COST OF

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS BILL? ARE THERE CORRESPONDING APPLICATIONS

-- APPROPRIATIONS, RATHER, FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS, FOR COUNTIES, FOR TOWNS,

FOR VILLAGES. I KNOW YOU WERE A MAYOR. YOU RECEIVE A COMPLIANCE

BURDEN LIKE THIS, YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO FIND AN INDIVIDUAL OR AN

ORGANIZATION THAT CAN HELP YOU CREATE THAT LEVEL OF REPORTING THAT NEEDS

TO BE PROVIDED TO THE LEGISLATURE. UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMEONE ON HAND

YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO HIRE SOMEONE WHO CAN THEN MEET THAT STANDARD

AND -- AND WRITE THAT REPORT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE ETHICALLY

IMPLEMENTING THIS IN A WAY THAT MEETS THE STANDARD OF THE LAW. WHO'S

GONNA -- WHO'S GONNA HELP THIS COMPLIANCE MOVE FORWARD FOR TOWNS

AND VILLAGES THAT MAY NOT HAVE THE -- THE EXPERTISE NEEDED TO COMPLY?

MR. OTIS: WELL, A TWO-PART ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION.

PART NUMBER ONE IS THAT IF YOU'RE GONNA USE AN AI TOOL, YOU SHOULD ALSO

ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY OF USING IT CORRECTLY AND COMPETENTLY AND

WITH THE QUALITY CONTROL. SO IT -- IT SORT OF COMES WITH THE PACKAGE. IS

THERE AN APPROPRIATION HERE? THERE IS NOT. MY ASSUMPTION IS, AND IT IS

ALREADY THE CASE THAT THERE ARE FOLKS OUT THERE THAT BUILD -- THAT HAVE

BUILT UP AN EXPERTISE ON HOW TO DO THIS KIND OF MONITORING AND THAT

THAT -- THAT WORLD IS GONNA GROW. THAT'S A -- A BIG GROWTH AREA IN TERMS

OF EMPLOYMENT, WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SCHOOL FOR, IN TECHNOLOGY.

BUT IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE GONNA TO MAINTAIN QUALITY

CONTROL, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING -- USING THE TOOL TO BEGIN WITH.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT IF A --

A COUNTY, MAYBE A COUNTY THAT IS NOT SUFFICIENTLY PROVIDED THE FUNDING

THEY NEED DOES -- AND THOSE MAY BE VERY WELL THE SAME COUNTIES THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

HAVE SIGNIFICANT BACKLOGS IN PROVIDING SERVICES. BECAUSE THEY'RE A

COUNTY THAT IS IN SEVERE NEED, THEY WOULD BE AT A DISADVANTAGE OF A

COUNTY THAT WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO SPEED UP THEIR PROCESSES BECAUSE

THEY COULD AFFORD TO HIRE COMPLIANCE OFFICERS TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN

MEET THE MANDATE OF THE LAW.

MR. OTIS: WELL, AGAIN, THESE TOOLS CAN HAVE POSITIVE

OR NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES. OUR FIRST -- FIRST PRIORITY IS TO MAKE SURE WE

HAVE QUALITY. I'D SAY MORE BROADLY I AM A BIG SUPPORTER OF AIM

FUNDING AND FUNDING FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS OF ALL LEVELS IN A WIDE

VARIETY OF WAYS, AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS. AND SO I THINK WE CAN ALL -- I'D

BE HAPPY TO ADVOCATE FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDING TO HELP EVERYBODY WITH

THEIR TECHNOLOGY ADVANCES. WE ACTUALLY DID THIS A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO

WITH THE SMART SCHOOLS BOND ACT TO HELP SCHOOL DISTRICTS WITH THEIR

TECHNOLOGY PURCHASES. SO I THINK THE STATE SHOULD CONTINUE TO BE IN

THAT GAME OF PROVIDING ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE AS IT RELATES TO

TECHNOLOGY NEEDS OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS, LOCAL GOVERNMENT, COUNTIES

THROUGHOUT.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THIS BILL, LIKE MANY OF THE

OTHER ONES THAT HAVE SEEKED [SIC] TO CREATE GUARDRAILS FOR OUR LOCAL

GOVERNMENT, FOR OUR STATE GOVERNMENT, FOR OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS, FOR OUR

BOCES SYSTEMS; SYSTEMS THAT OFTEN COULD REALLY USE A HAND IN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

PROVIDING SERVICES, IN PROVIDING MANY OF OUR ESSENTIAL STATE SERVICES

THAT THEY HAVE TO ASSIST IN GIVING MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY WHO ARE

IN NEED, WHETHER IT'S SNAP, WHETHER IT'S TEMPORARY ASSISTANCE, WHETHER

IT'S THE EBT PROGRAM. SO THERE'S THE HOUSING PROGRAMS THAT FACE

SEVERE BACKLOGS. MANY OF THESE PROGRAMS COULD REALLY BENEFIT FROM

THE USAGE AND IMPLEMENTATION OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS OF

SOFTWARES [SIC] THAT COULD HELP MAKES THOSE DECISIONS HAPPEN FASTER.

MAKE SURE SERVICES CAN REACH INDIVIDUALS FASTER. WHEN WE CREATE

GUARDRAILS LIKE THIS, ONES THAT WOULD INHERENTLY NEED A LEVEL OF

EXPERTISE AT EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IT

WOULD NECESSARILY CREATE A WORLD IN WHICH NEW YORK WOULD FALL

BEHIND OTHER STATES IN THE WAY THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE SERVICES FASTER, IN

THE WAY THEY CAN PROVIDE DECISIONS. NOT LARGE DECISIONS, NOT

FUNDAMENTAL DECISIONS, MAKE-OR-BREAK DECISIONS. THAT'S NOT WHAT

WE'RE SAYING WE DON'T WANT HERE. BUT WHAT WE DO WANT IS TO MAKE SURE

THAT SMALL DECISIONS THAT MIGHT TAKE WEEKS FOR A HUMAN TO IMPLEMENT A

DECISION ON VERSUS A -- A COMPUTER SYSTEM THAT CAN SAY, THIS FORM IS

INCORRECTLY FILLED OUT. PLEASE SEND IT BACK AND COME BACK TO ME WITHIN

THE SAME FEW MINUTES COULD REALLY HELP DEAL WITH A DIVIDE WE'RE FACING

WHEN IT COMES TO PROVIDING SERVICES IN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.

SO I -- I STRONGLY URGE, LIKE THE LOADING ACT, WE GO

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND MAKE SURE WE NARROW THE SCOPE ON

WHAT IS NEEDED FROM THESE LOCAL COMMUNITIES, WHAT RED TAPE IS BUILT UP

AROUND THEM, AND WE COME BACK WITH A VERSION THAT MAKES SENSE FOR

FINAL DECISION-MAKING, BUT NOT FOR ALL DECISION-MAKING IN THESE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

PROCESSES.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. HEVESI.

MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I WOULD

LIKE TO CALL RULES IN THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU. RULES

TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. RULES COMMITTEE MEMBERS TO THE

SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. OTIS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. OTIS: VERY BRIEFLY. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT STEP

FOR NEW YORK STATE AND IT'S AN IMPORTANT SIGNAL TO OTHER STATES AROUND

THE COUNTRY THAT FOR GOVERNMENTAL USES OF AI, TRANSPARENCY, DISCLOSURE

IMPACT ASSESSMENTS AND GUIDANCE FROM THEIR TECHNOLOGY TEAM -- AND

WE HAVE THE OFFICE OF TECHNOLOGY SERVICES WHICH IS PART OF THIS BILL --

IS AVAILABLE TO STATE AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THEY GET THIS RIGHT. AN

IMPORTANT BILL. PLEASED TO SEE GREAT SUPPORT FOR THIS HERE TODAY,

SUPPORT FOR THE OTHER HOUSE LAST WEEK.

I VOTE AYE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. OTIS IN THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 10, RULES REPORT NO. 409, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00066-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 409, HEVESI, EPSTEIN, SIMON, CLARK, JACKSON, RAGA, GIBBS,

DE LOS SANTOS, TAPIA, MAMDANI, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, FORREST, SHRESTHA,

ROMERO, BUTTENSCHON, TAYLOR, MEEKS, GRIFFIN, GALLAGHER, WOERNER,

COLTON, ROSENTHAL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW, IN

RELATION TO THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE STATEWIDE CENTRAL REGISTER OF

CHILD ABUSE AND MALTREATMENT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

HEVESI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. HEVESI.

MR. HEVESI: GOOD AFTERNOON, MADAM SPEAKER.

GOOD AFTERNOON, MY COLLEAGUES AND MS. WALSH.

THIS BILL WILL ALTER THE CURRENT SYSTEM OF REPORTING

ABUSE AND NEGLECT TO THE STATE CENTRAL REGISTER FROM AN ANONYMOUS

REPORTING SYSTEM TO A SEMI-CONFIDENTIAL REPORTING SYSTEM.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. HEVESI: ABSOLUTELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. AND THANK YOU FOR THE BRIEF

EXPLANATION. I WANT -- I WANT YOU TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF AN

EXPLANATION AS TO WHY BECAUSE RIGHT -- LET'S TALK ABOUT RIGHT NOW. THE

CURRENT -- THE CURRENT LAW SAYS THAT IF SOMEBODY CALLS THE STATE CENTRAL

REGISTRY WITH CONCERNS AND THEY WANT TO -- THEY WANT TO MAKE A REPORT,

THEY DO NOT NEED TO LEAVE THEIR NAME OR ANY CONTACT INFORMATION,

CORRECT?

MR. HEVESI: THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. WALSH: AND WHAT'S THE REASON FOR THAT CURRENT

LAW?

MR. HEVESI: THAT'S THE WAY THE LAW WAS WRITTEN.

THAT'S THE WAY MOST LAWS WERE WRITTEN BACK IN THE DAY. BUT WHAT

WE'RE SEEING NOW IS A TREND WHERE STATES, INCLUDING OURS, IS GONNA BE

MOVING AWAY FROM AN ANONYMOUS REPORTING SYSTEM BECAUSE -- FOR A

VARIETY OF REASONS I CAN GET TO -- BUT THE LATEST STATE TO DO THIS WAS

TEXAS IN 2023. THE REPUBLICAN-LED LEGISLATURE PASSED THIS IN 2023.

CALIFORNIA DID IT LAST YEAR. AND RELATED TO THE TEXAS IMPLEMENTATION,

WE HAVE A PROFESSOR AT NYU WHO I TRUST IMPLICITLY DID -- IMPLICITLY,

DID AN ANALYSIS OF TEXAS AND SHOWED THAT THERE WILL BE NO -- NO MORE

RISK TO CHILDREN'S SAFETY.

MS. WALSH: THAT'S INTERESTING. WELL, WE WILL GET

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

INTO THAT. I -- BECAUSE I REALLY DO DISAGREE WITH THAT.

MR. HEVESI: OKAY.

MS. WALSH: SO -- BUT THE -- THE IDEA WAS THAT IT

MIGHT -- THERE MIGHT BE A CHILLING EFFECT ON PEOPLE WHO HAVE REAL

CONCERNS ABOUT A CHILD OR ABOUT A FAMILY SITUATION, AND IF THEY -- IF THEY

HAVE TO GIVE THEIR NAME AND CONTACT INFORMATION IN ORDER TO HAVE THE

COMPLAINT ACTUALLY INVESTIGATED OR THE HOTLINE BE INVESTIGATED, THAT THEY

MIGHT NOT MAKE THAT CALL.

MR. HEVESI: YEAH. AND THAT IS AN ABSOLUTELY

LEGITIMATE CONCERN. IT WAS THE REASON WHY I DIDN'T MOVE THE BILL LAST

YEAR. IT WAS ACTUALLY ON THE FLOOR LAST YEAR. CAN I -- CAN I GIVE A LITTLE

CONTEXT? BECAUSE I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS. JUST FOR MY COLLEAGUES.

MS. WALSH: SURE. YEAH. WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF

TIME.

MR. HEVESI: I'LL DO IT -- I'LL DO IT QUICKLY FOR MY

COLLEAGUES.

MS. WALSH: NO, NO. TAKE YOUR TIME.

MR. HEVESI: TAKE YOUR TIME? THANKS, FELLAS.

(LAUGHTER)

MS. WALSH: WE'VE GOT A HALF-HOUR. WE'RE GOOD.

MR. HEVESI: SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE STATE

CENTRAL REGISTRY OF CHILD ABUSE [SIC], ABOUT 150 CALLS TO THE STATE

CENTRAL REGISTRY ANNUALLY. THIRTY PERCENT OF THOSE ARE INDICATE --

WOUND UP BEING INDICATED CASES, MEANING THERE'S SUBSTANTIAL ENOUGH

EVIDENCE FOR THOSE CALLS TO HAVE COME IN AND THEN TO BE INVESTIGATED

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AND PURSUED. THERE'S ANOTHER PORTION, AND -- AND THE OVERWHELMING

MAJORITY -- EXCUSE ME, THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THOSE CALLS COME

FROM MANDATED REPORTERS. MANDATED REPORTERS ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO

LEAVE THEIR NAME AND NUMBER. THEN THERE'S A SMALLER PORTION OF CALLERS

WHO CALL IN VOLUNTARILY, AND THEN THERE'S A VERY SMALL PORTION FROM

ANONYMOUS REPORTERS THAT SAY IT'S ABOUT 7 PERCENT OF THE ANNUAL CALLS.

MS. WALSH: MM-HMM.

MR. HEVESI: NOW, IT'S THOSE ANONYMOUS CALLS --

CALLS THAT WE'RE HAVING REAL TROUBLE WITH, AND I CAN TELL YOU WHY.

MS. WALSH: YEAH, I MEAN, I COULD TELL YOU WHY. I

MEAN --

MR. HEVESI: GO AHEAD.

MS. WALSH: -- FROM -- FROM -- I MEAN, I THINK PART

OF THE PROBLEM IS YOU GET TWO PARENTS WHO ARE WARRING WITH EACH OTHER

AND YOU GET ONE PARENT THAT'S RATTING OUT AND CALLING IN FAKE HOTLINE

REPORTS --

MR. HEVESI: YES.

MS. WALSH: -- TO TRY TO HARASS AND ANNOY THE OTHER

PARTY. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. AND SO -- BUT MY CONCERN IS -- I

MEAN, JUST TO GET TO THE HEART OF IT, I MEAN, I APPRECIATE THAT YOU HAVE

STATISTICS, BUT OUR KIDS AREN'T STATISTICS. I MEAN, WE'RE -- I WOULD SAY

JUST AS WE REQUIRE 12 JURORS TO CONVICT SOMEBODY, I MEAN, I -- I WORRY

-- YOU KNOW, THAT ONE HOLDOUT I THINK IS IMPORTANT.

MR. HEVESI: IT IS.

MS. WALSH: AND I THINK IN THIS AREA WHAT I'M

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

CONCERNED ABOUT IS WHAT IF YOU HAVE -- WHAT IF YOU HAVE A

NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU HAVE A FAMILY LIVING IN ONE HOUSE AND THE

NEIGHBOR, THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR HAS GOT REAL CONCERNS. BUT THEY --

REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE INVESTIGATION, IF THEIR INFORMATION

GETS OUT THAT THEY WERE THE ONES WHO CALLED, IT'S GONNA MAKE THEIR LIVES

MISERABLE --

MR. HEVESI: IT COULD BE DANGEROUS.

MS. WALSH: -- MISERABLE LIVING NEXT-DOOR TO THAT

FAMILY IF THEY CALL IN. SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE CONFIDENTIALITY, BECAUSE

WE WANT THAT NEIGHBOR WHO HAS REAL CONCERNS TO CALL IN AND NOT BE

WORRIED ABOUT THEIR NAME GETTING OUT. BECAUSE BEFORE YOU KNOW IT,

THINGS -- YOU KNOW, THE -- THE RETRIBUTION AGAINST PEOPLE WHO MAKE A

VERY LEGITIMATE CONCERNED CALL IS -- IS A RISK. AND THAT'S WHY WE HAD

RULES ABOUT WHY THERE'S CONFIDENTIALITY TO BEGIN WITH. IT WASN'T JUST

THAT WE WANTED SOME OUTMODED SYSTEM, IT'S THAT WE WANT TO BE SURE

THAT EVEN IF THERE'S A HUNDRED CALLS AND OUT OF THOSE HUNDRED CALLS

THERE'S ONE CALL OF ABUSE, A HOTLINE FOR ABUSE, AND WE WANT EVERYTHING

TO BE INVESTIGATED, AND IF THAT PERSON IS NOT GONNA CALL IF THEY CAN'T BE

GUARANTEED ANONYMITY, THEN WE'RE NOT GONNA KNOW ABOUT THAT HOTLINE.

WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO INVESTIGATE THAT, AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE A

KID THAT'S POTENTIALLY GONNA GET KILLED OR INJURED BY -- BY THE PERSON.

SO THAT'S THE -- THAT'S THE RISK. THAT'S THE CONCERN.

MR. HEVESI: CAN I ADDRESS THAT SPECIFICALLY?

MS. WALSH: ABSOLUTELY. PLEASE DO.

MR. HEVESI: SO FIRST, I ABSOLUTELY SHARE THAT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

CONCERN. AND THAT'S WHY LEGISLATING THIS AREA IS -- IS HYPERSENSITIVE.

SO HERE'S WHAT WE'VE DONE. ONE, WE MADE SURE TO -- NUMBER ONE,

THERE IS NO EMPIRICAL DATA THAT ANONYMOUS REPORTING IS KEEPING KIDS

SAFE. AND I'VE BEEN AT THIS FOR FOUR OR FIVE YEARS NOW. THAT'S NUMBER

ONE. NUMBER TWO, THESE CALLS, OKAY, DO A NUMBER OF THINGS. THERE ARE

10,000 NEW YORK FAMILIES THAT FIND OUT THAT THEY HAVE BEEN WRONGLY

ACCUSED AND INVESTIGATED BASED OFF OF THESE ANONYMOUS CALLS, AND

THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO THAT FOR THOSE FAMILIES. SO JUST SO WE

UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE CLEARING. IF SOMEBODY CALLS IN AN ANONYMOUS

REPORT ON YOUR FAMILY, THAT ALLOWS THE CHILD SERVICES INVESTIGATION TO

OPEN. THEY ARE ALLOWED TO DO A NUMBER OF THINGS. AND I WOULD ASK

MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE LISTENING, THINK ABOUT THIS IF THIS WAS

HAPPENING TO YOUR FAMILY. AND I'LL GET BACK TO THE -- TO THE RISK TO THE

OTHER ABUSE. SO THE INVESTIGATION'S OPEN. THEY ARE ALLOWED TO COME TO

YOUR HOUSE ANY TIME. THEY USUALLY COME AT NIGHT. THEY WILL SEARCH

EVERYTHING. THEY WILL ASK SOMETIMES, FREQUENTLY, YOUR CHILD TO TAKE

THEIR CLOTHES OFF TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO ABUSE. THEN THEY WILL

CONTACT THE CHILD'S SCHOOL. THEY WILL CONTACT YOUR NEIGHBORS. THEY

WILL CONTACT YOUR DOCTOR. ALL WITH THE THREAT THAT YOUR FAMILY COULD BE

SEPARATED. OKAY? SO THAT'S 10,000 INNOCENT FAMILIES A YEAR WHO ARE

BEING TRAUMATIZED. ADD THAT TO THE FACT THAT THIS HAS BECOME A WAY FOR

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ABUSERS WHO -- AND I KEEP HAVING THIS IMAGE OF A

VERY BRAVE YOUNG LADY WHO STANDS UP TO HER ABUSER AND THE ABUSER

[SIC] KICKS HIM OUT, FINALLY GETS RID OF THIS GUY AND SHE'S WITH HER KID,

AND THE ABUSER IS ABLE TO, BECAUSE WE HAVE ANONYMOUS REPORTING, BE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SHIELDED FROM WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THE EQUIVALENT OF A HAND GRENADE,

DROPS IT INTO THAT FAMILY AND, BOOM, NOW YOU'RE QUESTIONED AS A PARENT.

NOW EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU'RE QUESTIONED AS A PARENT. NOW YOUR KID IS

UNDER SEPARATION ANXIETY AND TRAUMA. SO WE DON'T WANT THAT. PLUS,

THIS SYSTEM, THE ENTIRE SYSTEM, AND I GOT TO BELIEVE THE ANONYMOUS

REPORTING PORTION IS UNBELIEVABLY RACIST. SO RIGHT NOW IF YOU ARE A

BLACK FAMILY YOU ARE SEVEN TIMES MORE LIKELY TO GET AN INDICATED CASE.

YOU ARE EIGHT -- I'M SORRY, YOU ARE SEVEN TIMES MORE LIKELY TO HAVE A

REPORT AGAINST YOU. YOU'RE EIGHT TIMES MORE LIKELY TO HAVE AN

INDICATED CASE, AND YOU ARE 11 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO HAVE YOUR FAMILY

SEPARATED. FOR LATINX FAMILIES IT'S ABOUT 5 PERCENT. SO WHAT WE'VE

ALLOWED HERE --

MS. WALSH: HOW IS THAT RACIST?

MR. HEVESI: HOW IS THAT RACIST?

MS. WALSH: YEAH. I MEAN, IF SOMEBODY MAKES A

PHONE CALL AND -- AND HOTLINES SOMETHING TO THE STATE CENTRAL REGISTRY,

I MEAN, THAT'S ANYBODY, WHITE, BLACK, CAN CALL. THEY INVESTIGATE EVERY

HOTLINE --

MR. HEVESI: THEY DO, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

MS. WALSH: SO HOW IS THAT RACIAL?

MR. HEVESI: IT'S RACIAL BECAUSE THE PROPORTION OF

THE CALLS TO THE POPULATION IS SO OUT OF PROPORTION THAT IT CAN'T BE

WITHOUT RACIAL BIAS GETTING THESE NUMBERS. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. BUT THAT'S

NOT EVEN THE POINT OF THE BILL.

MS. WALSH: BUT YOU'RE NOT SAYING -- YOU'RE NOT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SAYING THAT CPS IS SELECTIVELY --

MR. HEVESI: NO. I'M SAYING --

MS. WALSH: I MEAN, THEY'RE -- THEY'RE INVESTIGATING

EVERY COMPLAINT THAT COMES IN.

MR. HEVESI: AS -- AS THEY SHOULD.

MS. WALSH: RIGHT. AS THEY SHOULD.

MR. HEVESI: WHAT I'M SUGGESTING -- WHAT I'M

SUGGESTING IS BY RELIEVING, AS WE HAVE NOW, AN ANONYMOUS SYSTEM, ANY

CONSEQUENCES FOR THE REPORTER WHO ARE -- AND WE'RE GOING AFTER

MALICIOUS CALLS AND INTENTIONALLY FALSE CALLS, WITHOUT ANY CONSEQUENCES

TO THEM. WHAT WE HAVE ALLOWED IS A SYSTEM THAT HAS PERPETUATED

RACISM, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND OTHER TYPES OF HARASSMENT.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO SINCE YOU JUST -- SINCE YOU

JUST SAID THAT, LET ME SAY THIS: I WOULD LOVE TO WORK WITH YOU ON THAT

BILL.

MR. HEVESI: WHICH ONE?

MS. WALSH: THAT BILL TO ACTUALLY PENALIZE PEOPLE

WHO ARE REPEATEDLY MAKING HARASSING, UNSUBSTANTIATED HOTLINED.

MR. HEVESI: I -- I DO --

MS. WALSH: DO THAT!

MR. HEVESI: AND CAN I TELL YOU SOMETHING --

SOMETHING IMPORTANT --

MS. WALSH: YEAH.

MR. HEVESI: -- ABOUT THIS BILL? AND I HAD A -- A

CONVERSATION WITH ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES IN CHILDREN AND FAMILIES

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ABOUT THIS ISSUE, ABOUT THIS NOT BEING PROSECUTED. SO THE DISTRICT

ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION TELLS US THAT THEY'RE NOT PROSECUTING THESE FOR A

VARIETY OF REASONS. THE BIGGEST REASON, I WOULD BELIEVE, IS BECAUSE

THEY'RE ANONYMOUS. SO BY VOTING FOR THIS BILL, THAT MEANS THAT WE'RE

GONNA HAVE THE NAME AND CONTACT INFORMATION OF ANYBODY WHO CALLS IN

A FALSE REPORT. YOU'RE ACTUALLY PUTTING TEETH INTO THE SYSTEM BY VOTING

FOR THIS BILL.

MS. WALSH: WELL I'M TELLING YOU AS SOMEBODY THAT

HAS PRACTICED IN FAMILY COURT THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CASE NOTES OF

INVESTIGATIONS AND WE LOOK AT THE WORDING OF -- OF WHAT THE HOTLINE

WAS, WE -- I WOULD SAY 98 PERCENT OF THE TIME -- AND THAT'S JUST MY

MADE-UP STATISTIC -- BUT 98 PERCENT OF THE TIME WE KNOW -- WE KNOW

WHO MADE IT, RIGHT? WE KNOW WHO MADE IT.

MR. HEVESI: RIGHT.

MS. WALSH: AND IF IT'S THE OTHER -- BECAUSE THE

OTHER PARENT OR WHOEVER IT IS THAT'S MADE THIS BOGUS CALL, IT COULD BE A

GRANDPARENT, IT COULD BE SOMEBODY ELSE THAT JUST WANTS TO GET

SOMEBODY INTO TROUBLE, WE KNOW WHO IT IS. WE KNOW WHO IT IS.

MR. HEVESI: OKAY.

MS. WALSH: BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, THE FAMILY COURT

DOESN'T HAVE THE POWER RIGHT NOW TO COME BACK IN AND SAY TO THAT OTHER

PARENT, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT? WE KNOW IT WAS YOU. YOU'VE BEEN

CALLING 10, 15 TIMES. WE DON'T WANT -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HAVE

SOME TEETH IN THIS TO BE ABLE TO SAY -- YOU KNOW, TO DO SOMETHING WITH

YOU. WE DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT NOW.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. HEVESI: I'M -- I'M INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE.

LET'S -- LET'S TALK ABOUT IT OFFLINE AFTER SESSION.

MS. WALSH: ABSOLUTELY.

MR. HEVESI: THIS IS A PROBLEM I DON'T LIKE AS WELL.

MS. WALSH: BUT -- BUT LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT FOR -- FOR

-- LIKE YOU SAID, FOR COLLEAGUES THAT MAYBE DON'T KNOW, HOW THIS -- HOW

THIS BILL WORKS. SO YOU -- YOU CALL -- SAY YOU HAVE SOMEBODY THAT --

TAKE -- USE MY EXAMPLE, THEN, OF YOU HAVE A NEIGHBOR THAT GOES IN -- OR

MAKES THE CALL AND SAYS, I HAVE SOME REAL CONCERNS. I'VE HEARD

SCREAMING. I'VE HEARD WHATEVER. I'M -- I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THIS CHILD

THAT LIVES NEXT DOOR. I'VE SEEN THIS CHILD. THEY LOOK -- THEY LOOK LIKE

THEY ARE DISHEVELED. THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE VERY UPSET. I'VE OBSERVED

THEM. WHATEVER, WHATEVER THE REASONS ARE. AND THEN THE PERSON AT THE

OTHER END OF THAT PHONE LINE IS GONNA SAY, GREAT. WELL, WHAT'S YOUR

NAME AND WHAT'S YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION, AND THEY SAY, OH, WAIT A

MINUTE. I DON'T WANT TO GIVE YOU THAT, AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

MR. HEVESI: PERFECT -- PERFECT SETUP.

MS. WALSH: OKAY.

MR. HEVESI: THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS IF THEY -- WELL,

FIRST OF ALL, IF THEY DON'T GIVE THEIR NAME AND CONTACT INFORMATION,

OCFS IS PROHIBITED FROM TRANSMITTING A REPORT TO THE APPROPRIATE LOCAL

SOCIAL SERVICES DISTRICT. THEN IF THAT PERSON SAYS NO, THEY WILL BE

FORWARDED TO A SUPERVISOR. THIS IS THE NEW AMENDMENT. THIS IS WHAT

WE ADDED THIS YEAR AS OPPOSED TO LAST YEAR OUT OF AN ABUNDANCE OF

CAUTION, EVEN THOUGH WE BELIEVE IF WE DID STRAIGHT ANONYMOUS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

REPORTING, KIDS WOULD BE SAFE. SO THEY WILL BE FORWARDED TO A

SUPERVISOR. THE SUPERVISOR IS GONNA GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF THINGS;

NUMBER ONE, THE CONFIDENTIAL -- CONFIDENTIALITY PROTECTION IS ALREADY IN

THE LAW. WE'LL TAKE YOU THROUGH HOW IN PRACTICE AND IN THE LAW THAT WE

DON'T DISCLOSE THOSE INFORMATIONS. EVEN PRACTITIONERS WATCH IN THE

SYSTEM.

MS. WALSH: SO IT GETS KICKED UP TO A SUPERVISOR.

THE SUPERVISOR TRIES TO REASSURE THE CALLER --

MR. HEVESI: THAT'S NUMBER ONE, YES.

MS. WALSH: -- DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

MR. HEVESI: THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. WALSH: YEP.

MR. HEVESI: SO YOU'RE CONFIDENTIAL. NUMBER TWO,

IF THE PERSON INSISTS THAT THEY HAVE TO MAKE AN ANONYMOUS CALL, THE

SUPERVISOR WILL TELL THEM TO CALL 911. THEY WILL TAKE YOUR IMMEDIATE

COMPLAINT AND DEAL WITH IT ANONYMOUSLY. AND THEN THE FINAL THING, IN

AN EFFORT TO DEAL WITH NOT ABUSE, BUT NEGLECT WHICH COULD BE

MALTREATMENT, WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE SUPERVISOR REFER THEM TO THE

HEARS COMMUNITY SERVICE LINE, WHICH STANDS FOR HELP, EMPOWER,

ADVOCATE, REASSURE AND SUPPORT, WHERE CARING REPRESENTATIVES ARE

GONNA GUIDE FAMILIES TO SERVICES INCLUDING FOOD, CLOTHING, HOUSING,

MEDICAL AND BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, PARENTING AND CHILD CARE IN 12 DIFFERENT

LANGUAGES. SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS -- AND YOU'RE RIGHT TO BE

CONCERNED ABOUT THIS MS. WALSH, AND I SHARE THAT SAME CONCERN WHICH

IS WHY THIS BILL SAT FOR A YEAR ON THE FLOOR WITHOUT BEING MOVED OUT OF

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION BY US AND COUNSEL. WE DON'T WANNA HAVE A

CHILLING EFFECT ON PEOPLE MAKING PHONE CALLS, PARTICULARLY KIDS. AND

WE THINK THAT THIS BILL STRIKES THE BALANCE OF BEING OVERCAUTIOUS AS WE

CHANGE AWAY FROM A SYSTEM THAT WE KNOW IS HURTING TENS OF THOUSANDS

OF FAMILIES ANNUALLY.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO LET'S JUST -- LET'S JUST FINISH

UP, THOUGH, WITH THIS PART AND THEN I PROBABLY -- THAT PROBABLY WILL BE

THE END OF IT FOR ME IN TERMS OF MY QUESTIONING FOR YOU.

SO AFTER IT GETS KICKED UP TO THE -- THE NEXT LEVEL,

RIGHT, AND THEY -- THEY REASSURE THE PERSON, THAT PERSON STILL SAYS, I -- I

JUST DO NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THIS. I DON'T WANT TO CALL THE HEARS

LINE. I DON'T WANNA -- I WANT TO REPORT WHAT I'M SEEING, BUT I DO NOT

WANT MY NAME OR IDENTITY TO BE KNOWN IN ANY WAY. THEN IS THERE ANY

REQUIREMENT TO FORWARD THAT -- THAT CONCERN AND HOTLINE TO BE

INVESTIGATED?

MR. HEVESI: NO.

MS. WALSH: AND THAT IS MY PROBLEM WITH THE BILL.

MR. HEVESI: OKAY.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. HEVESI.

MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU.

MS. WALSH: MR. -- OR MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MS. WALSH: I DON'T CARE IF I'M THE ONLY NO VOTE IN

THIS HOUSE. I WILL NOT SUPPORT THIS. I THINK THAT THERE IS A VERY, VERY

GOOD REASON WHY THE LAW EXISTS THE WAY IT DOES, AND IT'S BECAUSE ABUSE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AND NEGLECT IS NOT ALWAYS OBVIOUS. SOMETIMES WE -- WE WOULD HAVE A

NUMBER OF PEOPLE CALL IN AND HOTLINE THE SAME THING, RIGHT?

SOMETIMES YOU HAVE MANDATED REPORTERS LIKE -- LIKE TEACHERS OR

DOCTORS WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT A CHILD AND THEY'LL MAKE A PHONE

CALL. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT -- I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE NEIGHBOR. I'M

CONCERNED ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT MANDATED REPORTERS BUT HAVE

SEEN OR HEARD OR OBSERVED SOMETHING THAT REALLY IS CONCERNING. IT

COULD BE ABUSE AND NEGLECT. WE HAVE ALL, IN OUR DISTRICTS, I AM SURE, I

KNOW I HAVE, HAD SITUATIONS WHERE YOU PICK UP THE PAPER AND YOU SEE

THAT A CHILD HAS BEEN KILLED, HAS BEEN KILLED, AND EVERYONE SAYS, OH,

CPS MUST HAVE DROPPED THE BALL. THEY MUST NOT HAVE DONE WHAT THEY

WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? THEY CAN'T

INVESTIGATE SOMETHING UNLESS THAT HOTLINE IS RELAYED TO THEM FOR

INVESTIGATION. AND SO THIS BILL, WHAT THIS DOES IS IT SAYS THAT UNLESS THE

PERSON CALLING, DESPITE REASSURANCES FROM UPPER LEVELS OF MANAGEMENT

WITHIN THE -- THE STATE CENTRAL REGISTRY, IF THEY STILL SAY, NO. I -- IF YOU

ARE GONNA USE MY NAME OR -- OR IF MY NAME HAS TO BE GIVEN, I -- I WILL

NOT -- I WILL NOT -- I WILL NOT GIVE THIS TO YOU, THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION.

THEY WILL NOT REFER THAT HOTLINE AND THAT CONCERN TO BE INVESTIGATED.

AND, MY COLLEAGUES, THAT IS DANGEROUS. AND I -- I HEARD A BUNCH OF

STATISTICS FROM THE SPONSOR. I'M TELLING YOU THAT I -- I DON'T CARE IF IT'S 1

PERCENT. I -- I DON'T CARE. WE -- YES, YES. THE HOTLINE PROCEDURE DOES

RESULT AT TIMES IN HARASSING CALLS BEING MADE ONE AGAINST ANOTHER OR IF

YOU HAVE PARENTS WHO ARE WARRING. YES, THAT DOES OCCUR. OR FROM

GRANDPARENTS WHO ARE TAKING A SIDE WITH ONE CHILD OR THE -- OR ONE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

PARENT OR THE OTHER PARENT. IT DOES HAPPEN. OF COURSE IT DOES HAPPEN.

BUT -- AND I'D LIKE TO CONTINUE TO USE MY SECOND 15, PLEASE. THANK

YOU. BUT I THINK THAT THAT GETS SORTED OUT WITHIN THE FAMILY COURT

SYSTEM. THAT GETS SORTED OUT. WE KNOW, WE KNOW WHEN WE READ THOSE

CASE NOTES, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE REDACTED. WE CAN SUSPECT BECAUSE

WE'RE WORKING WITH BOTH OF THOSE PARENTS. IF THE -- THE ACTUAL -- THE --

THE WAY THAT THE HOTLINE IS TAKEN HAS DIRECT QUOTES THAT SOUND LIKE ONE

OF THE PARENTS THAT USES WORDS OR BAD GRAMMAR OR WHATEVER THAT

IDENTIFIES THEM, AND -- AND YOU KNOW, AND YOU KNOW WHO MADE THAT

CALL. I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO EMPOWER FAMILY COURT TO BE ABLE TO

TAKE SOME ACTION WHEN IT'S BEEN USED AND IN AN -- USED AS A SWORD,

REALLY, AGAINST THE OTHER PARENT. I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT BILL, AND I

THINK THAT OTHER FAMILY COURT ATTORNEYS AND JUDGES WOULD LOVE TO SEE

THAT BILL. BECAUSE IS IT -- CAN IT BE USED AT TIMES IN A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

SITUATION? YES, IT CAN. DO WE WANNA AVOID THAT? YES, WE DO. BUT WE

DON'T WANNA DO THIS BILL. WE DON'T WANNA DO THIS BILL BECAUSE IT'S

GOING TO CHILL REALLY IMPORTANT REPORTING. AND EVEN IF THAT ONLY OCCURS

IN X PERCENT OF THE TIME, AS HAS BEEN SURVEYED, I DON'T CARE. I STILL

THINK WE DON'T WANNA CHANGE THE LAW TO DO THAT.

SO I -- I WILL BE A NO ON THIS, AND I REALLY DO HOPE THAT

THERE WILL BE SOME OTHER NOS IN THIS CHAMBER ABOUT IT AS WELL. I THINK

THAT THIS IS -- THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. I WILL NOT AGREE TO THIS AS A -- AS A

POINT OF POLICY. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR THE

OPPORTUNITY. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE, GENERALLY SPEAKING, IN THE NEGATIVE ON

THIS BILL. IF THERE ARE ANY -- IF ANYBODY WANTS TO VOTE YES THEY CAN DO

SO NOW AT THEIR SEATS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT DESIRE TO BE AN

EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. GIGLIO TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I

COULDN'T AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE MORE IN THAT EVERY CHILD AND EVERY

COMPLAINT OF ABUSE OR NEGLECT SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED. THERE ARE

TEACHERS, THERE ARE CAMP INSTRUCTORS. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE AFRAID

OF LOSING HEIR JOBS IF THEIR NAME IS ON A COMPLAINT REPORTING ABUSE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AND CHILDREN ARE A VULNERABLE POPULATION THAT CANNOT SPEAK FOR

THEMSELVES, AND EVERY SINGLE -- EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT FOR A CHILD THAT

HAS BEEN ABUSED OR NEGLECTED NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED, WHETHER OR NOT

THE PEOPLE WANT TO BE ANONYMOUS OR NOT.

SO I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE AND I WILL BE VOTING IN

THE NEGATIVE AND I ENCOURAGE ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. WE

NEED TO PROTECT CHILDREN IN THIS STATE. AND THERE IS NO WAIVER JUST

BECAUSE SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT TO ANNOUNCE WHO MADE THE COMPLAINT.

THEY SHOULD ALL BE INVESTIGATED.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. GIGLIO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. HEVESI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. AND

THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUES. I APPRECIATE ALL OF THE -- THE CONCERN ON

BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. I REALLY DO. THIS IS A TOUGH BILL, SO I

UNDERSTAND THE VOTES. I DO WANNA REASSURE MY COLLEAGUES THAT I

WOULDN'T PUT THIS FORWARD IF I DIDN'T THINK THE SAFETY OF CHILDREN WAS

PARAMOUNT. BUT THE REASON WHY I WANTED TO RISE VERY QUICKLY, I DON'T

DO THIS OFTEN, BUT I WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER, TO START WITH. I -- I THINK

IT'S IMPORTANT THAT ALL OF US REMEMBER THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A SPEAKER

WHO'S TRYING TO GET TO THE ANSWER OF YES, THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR

EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE HOUSE. ALSO, THANK YOU TO JEN BEST, JANICE

NIEVES, PAOLO MUSTO AND MICHAEL HEGARTY; ALL OF THE STAFF HERE FOR

THEIR CARING AND THEIR GUIDANCE. TO JOYCE MCMILLAN, ANGELA BURTON

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AND CHRIS GOTTLIEB WHO GUIDED THIS PROCESS THROUGH. AND THEN LAST

AND FINALLY, THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TO ME, THIS PAST FRIDAY MY

CHIEF-OF-STAFF, ALEXA ARECCHI, WHO HAS BEEN WORKING WITH ME FOR

EIGHT YEARS HAS MOVED ON. SHE'S BEYOND ME, GROWN BEYOND ME. SHE

IS LIKE A -- LIKE A SISTER TO ME. I THINK SHE'S FANTASTIC. NOTHING WE

COULD HAVE ACCOMPLISHED OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS WITHOUT HER. THIS

BILL AND ALL THE OTHER GREAT WORK FOR THE PEOPLE OF MY DISTRICT, TO HER I

JUST WANTED TO SAY ON THE RECORD, LEX, YOU'RE THE GREATEST AND WE WILL

MISS YOU TERRIBLY.

THANK YOU. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. HEVESI IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

CONFIDENTIAL REPORTING OF HOTLINES TO THE STATE CENTRAL REGISTRY IS THE

ABSOLUTE BASIS AND, LIKE, LYNCHPIN OF -- OF WHAT CHILD PROTECTIVE

SERVICES IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT. I WANT TO IMPRESS UPON MY

COLLEAGUES THAT THIS BILL TURNS IT RIGHT ON ITS HEAD. AND I -- I WAS

DISTRAUGHT LAST YEAR WHEN I THOUGHT THAT THIS BILL WAS GONNA -- WAS

GONNA COME UP AND COME TO THE FLOOR, AND WHEN IT DIDN'T I BREATHED A

HUGE SIGH OF RELIEF. BUT HERE WE ARE THIS YEAR. I -- I REALLY -- I IMPLORE

A SECOND LOOK AT THIS -- AT THIS BILL. THIS IS MISGUIDED. IT IS ABSOLUTELY

MISGUIDED.

I WILL BE VOTING NO AND I REALLY DO HOPE THAT

SOMEBODY AFTER THIS VOTE REALLY TAKES A HARD LOOK AT IT AND THINKS --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THINKS ABOUT IT. I DON'T SEE -- YOU KNOW, I -- THE NEW YORK PUBLIC

WELFARE ASSOCIATION, YOU DON'T SEE THEM IN SUPPORT OF THIS. THEY'RE

THE PEOPLE THAT -- I WENT TO ALL THE TRAININGS WHEN I WAS WORKING AS AN

ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY WORKING WITH CPS AND FOSTER CARE. THEY DID

ALL THE TRAININGS FOR US. THEY'RE NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS. THE FAMILY COURT

JUDGES I'VE SPOKEN WITH ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS. AND CERTAINLY, THE --

YOU KNOW, THE CASE WORKERS THAT -- YOU'D THINK THAT THEY WOULD BE

DELIGHTED WITH THIS BILL BECAUSE IT WOULD MEAN THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE

TO INVESTIGATE AS MUCH STUFF. THEY WOULDN'T BE SO OVERWORKED.

THEY'RE NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS EITHER. SO THINK ABOUT IT. WHAT ARE YOU --

WHO ARE YOU DOING THIS BILL FOR?

THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. I'LL BE OBVIOUSLY VOTING IN THE

NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. WALSH IN THE NEGATIVE.

MR. MEEKS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. MEEKS: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR AN

OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF

THIS NEEDED LEGISLATION. THIS IS AN EFFORT TO RIGHT HISTORIC WRONGS. BUT

IT ALSO PROTECTS THOSE WHO ARE IN NEED. AS IT RELATE [SIC] TO

CONFIDENTIALITY, IT STILL MAINTAINS THE CONFIDENTIALITY FROM THE PUBLIC AS

WELL AS THE PERSON ACCUSED OF ABUSE OR NEGLECT. HOWEVER, IT GIVES

THOSE WHO ARE DOING THESE INVESTIGATIONS FURTHER TOOLS TO REACH OUT TO

THE INDIVIDUAL WHO MADE SUCH A CALL, TO FOLLOW UP WITH THEM AND FIND

OUT THEIR CONCERNS. ALSO, IT WOULD HELP THEM TO SORT OF TREAD THROUGH

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

CHALLENGES SUCH AS ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE AISLE MENTIONED, AS

BAD GRAMMAR. THEY CAN ACTUALLY REACH OUT TO AN INDIVIDUAL AND FIND

OUT WHAT WAS THE PREMISE BEHIND THEIR CALL, RECOGNIZING CULTURAL

DIFFERENCES AS WELL AS CULTURAL SENSITIVITY.

SO I COMMEND THE SPONSOR ON THIS LEGISLATION AND I

WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MEEKS IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MEEKS IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER,

MEMBERS HAVE ON THEIR DESK AN A-CALENDAR. I'D LIKE TO MOVE TO

ADVANCE THAT A-CALENDAR.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON MRS. PEOPLES-

STOKES' MOTION, THE A-CALENDAR IS ADVANCED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU. IF WE COULD

GO DIRECTLY TO THAT A-CALENDAR ON PAGE 20 AND TAKE UP RULES REPORT

NO. 852 BY MS. SIMON.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: PAGE 20, RULES

REPORT NO. 852, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08888, RULES REPORT

NO. 852, SIMON, SHIMSKY, STIRPE, SHRESTHA, GALLAGHER, MITAYNES,

ROSENTHAL, PAULIN, REYES, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, DAVILA, OTIS, KELLES,

SCHIAVONI, JACOBSON, ROMERO, R. CARROLL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC

SERVICE LAW, IN RELATION TO THE PROVISION OF GAS SERVICE TO NEW

CUSTOMERS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

SIMON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. SIMON.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS BILL

WOULD REMOVE THE 100-FOOT RULE FOR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. THE

100-FOOT RULE REQUIRES GAS UTILITIES TO SUBSIDIZE USING RATEPAYER MONEY

THE FIRST 100 FEET OF PIPE TO CONNECT TO A NEW RESIDENTIAL BUILDING TO THE

GAS SYSTEM. CHANGING THIS LAW WOULD ALLOW THOSE REQUESTING THAT

NATURAL GAS TO PAY THE TRUE COSTS TO INSTALL NATURAL GAS IN A NEW

CONSTRUCTION AND END THE RATEPAYER-FUNDED SUBSIDY, SAVING GAS

CUSTOMERS MONEY ON THEIR BILLS EVERY MONTH AND LETTING THE TRUE COSTS

OF INSTALLING A NEW GAS INFRASTRUCTURE CONTROL THE MARKET.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. LEMONDES.

MR. LEMONDES: MADAM SPEAKER, WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. SIMON: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. LEMONDES: COULD YOU JUST SIMPLY COVER WHY

WE THINK THIS IS BENEFICIAL, WHAT -- WHAT EXACTLY THE INTENT OF -- OF THE

BILL'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS WILL BE?

MS. SIMON: WELL RIGHT NOW TO CONNECT TO A NEW GAS

LINE, NOT TO CONNECT TO GET YOUR NAME ON A NEW BILL, BUT NEW SERVICE, IT

-- THE COST OF DOING THAT IF YOU ARE WITHIN 100 FEET OF THE GAS LINE IS

PAID FOR BY ALL OF US. UNDER THIS BILL, THE PERSON WHO IS REQUESTING THAT

CONNECTION PAYS FOR THEIR OWN CONNECTION. IF THEY WERE 110 FEET AWAY

FROM THE GAS LINE, THEY'D BE PAYING FOR THAT CONNECTION. IT'S CHEAPER

WITHIN 100 FEET, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY WOULD BE PAYING FOR THEMSELVES.

MR. LEMONDES: OKAY. SO -- AND WHAT WOULD THE

APPROXIMATE COST OF THAT BE, AND WOULD IT BE THE SAME THROUGHOUT THE

STATE?

MS. SIMON: NO. IN FACT, IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT

DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE LOCATED, THE UTILITY ITSELF, AND THAT VARIES

AROUND THE STATE AS WELL.

MR. LEMONDES: OKAY. AND SO, IN GENERAL, DO

THINK THAT -- HOW -- HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD THIS IMPACT, ROUGHLY,

STATEWIDE?

MS. SIMON: THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE?

MR. LEMONDES: OH, I -- I MEAN --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: IT WOULD BE -- I -- I WOULD SAY IT'S EVERY

GAS CUSTOMER RATEPAYER IS AFFECTED AT SOME LEVEL BECAUSE THEY'RE SAVING

SOME MONEY. BUT IT IS -- IT IS ESTIMATED THAT ABOUT -- THE RATEPAYERS,

OVERALL, RIGHT, NEW YORK STATE RATEPAYERS, WOULD SAVE ABOUT $200

MILLION A YEAR.

MR. LEMONDES: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I

APPRECIATE YOUR QUESTION -- I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS.

AND, MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. LEMONDES: SO, I -- I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH

THIS WOULD ACTUALLY BENEFIT RATEPAYERS, AND BECAUSE OF THAT I WOULD SAY

THAT WITHOUT KNOWING THE TRUE BENEFIT AND THE TRUE COSTS, AS WITH

ANYTHING WITH RESPECT TO ENERGY, I WOULD -- I WOULD SAY THAT I COULD NOT

ENDORSE THIS BILL YET IN ITS CURRENT FORM.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. SIMON: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MS. SIMON.

JUST FOR THE RECORD, THIS BILL IS SPECIFICALLY FOR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: YES, IT IS RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS CURRENT

-- BECAUSE THAT IS IN OUR LAWS. IF -- IF IT'S A COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER, IT'S A

MATTER OF REGULATION BY THE PSC. AND SO THERE'S NO NEED TO PASS A LAW

ABOUT THAT.

MR. PALMESANO: HOW DOES THIS -- HOW WOULD

THIS BILL HANDLE MIXED-USE PROPERTY? WE'VE SEEN HOW MANY RESIDENTIAL

AND COMMERCIAL. HOW WOULD THAT WORK? WHO WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE

FOR THE RESIDENTIAL HOMEOWNER OR THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPER? HOW

WOULD THAT WORK?

MS. SIMON: WELL, IF YOU'RE BUILDING A NEW

BUILDING, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

MR. PALMESANO: YEAH, SURE.

MS. SIMON: OKAY. SO, UNDER THE ALL-ELECTRIC

BUILDINGS ACT, MOST OF THOSE NEW BUILDINGS WOULD NEED TO BE ELECTRIC

ANYWAY AFTER DECEMBER 31, 2025. AND SO IN REALTY, IF SOMEBODY IS

LOOKING TO BUILD AND START A -- A BUILDING NEXT YEAR, THEY WOULD HAVE TO

MAKE IT ELECTRIC ANYWAY.

MR. PALMESANO: SO THIS BILL CONTINUES THE

SUBSIDY FOR ELECTRIC HOOKUPS, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: YES. IN FACT, THE -- THE ELECTRIC SUBSIDY

IS, A, MUCH CHEAPER AND, BY THE WAY, IT'S A MATTER OF PUBLIC POLICY.

PEOPLE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE ELECTRICITY; THEY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE GAS.

IN FACT, RENEWABLE ENERGY IS ALREADY CHEAPER TO INSTALL AND MORE

EFFICIENT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. PALMESANO: SO YOU THINK ELEC -- HEATING

WITH ELECTRIC IS CHEAPER THAN HEATING WITH GAS?

MS. SIMON: ESPECIALLY IF IT'S RENEWABLE ELECTRIC,

WHICH IS WHAT THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT WOULD REQUIRE.

MR. PALMESANO: BECAUSE I WAS GONNA ASK YOU,

DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO HEAT A HOME WITH ALL ELECTRIC

IN BUFFALO OR THE NORTH COUNTRY? IT'S PRETTY EXPENSIVE.

MS. SIMON: THAT IS GOING TO DEPEND ON THE HOME,

THE SIZE OF THE HOME, WHETHER OR NOT IT IS PROPERLY INSULATED, ET CETERA,

ET CETERA. SO ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO VARY. BUT

WE KNOW THAT RATEPAYERS WHO ARE CURRENTLY SUBSIDING THIS FOR THEIR

NEIGHBORS WILL SAVE $200 MILLION THIS YEAR.

MR. PALMESANO: SO I KNOW THE ARGUMENT ON

YOUR SIDE IS IT SAVES RATEPAYER MONEY.

MS. SIMON: MM-HMM. IT DOES.

MR. PALMESANO: SO LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE,

SOMEONE SIGNS OFF AND THEY GET ON AND THEY GET THE 100-FOOT RULE AND

THEY GET ON THE SYSTEM. NOW YOU HAVE MULTIPLE -- MORE PEOPLE ON THE

-- THE GAS SYSTEM. SO WHEN YOU HAVE THOSE NEW CUSTOMERS COME IN,

THEY HELP PAY THE FIXED OPERATION AND CAPITAL COSTS, CORRECT? WHEN

THEY COME ON, THEY HELP SHARE THOSE COSTS THAT THE RATEPAYERS ARE

PAYING, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR

QUESTION.

MR. PALMESANO: I'LL REPHRASE IT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: PLEASE.

MR. PALMESANO: SO WHEN YOU HAVE A NEW

CUSTOMER COME ON -- ON THE GAS SYSTEM, NOW YOU HAVE THE EXISTING

CUSTOMERS WHO WERE THERE BEFORE THAT. THEY'RE PAYING FIXED

OPERATIONAL AND CAPITAL COSTS ON THE SYSTEM, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: WELL, ALL RATEPAYERS ARE PAYING AND

SUBSIDING THE UTILITY TO PROVIDE ITS SERVICE. BUT, THE DIFFERENCE HERE

BETWEEN I BELIEVE YOUR QUESTION AND WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS THAT THIS BILL

ONLY AFFECTS NEW CONNECTIONS. SO IF YOU MOVE A COUPLE OF BLOCKS

AWAY AND YOU -- YOU CALL UP YOUR -- YOUR UTILITY AND YOU SAY, I JUST

MOVED. I NEED SERVICE AT MY NEW PLACE, AND YOUR -- THE NEW BUILDING

THAT YOU ARE IN, OR THE NEWER-TO-YOU BUILDING THAT YOU'RE IN, ALREADY HAS

A CONNECTION, THERE'S NO COST. IT'S JUST YOU'RE CHANGING YOUR SERVICE.

THAT'S NOT AFFECTED BY THIS.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY.

ACCORDING TO PIPELINE CONTRACTORS AND UNIONS, THE

ELIMINATION OF THE 100-FOOT RULE IN THIS LEGISLATION WILL COST THOUSANDS

OF UNION AND NON-WORKER -- WORKERS DOING -- DOING THEIR JOBS. DO YOU

HAVE ANY CONCERN FOR THESE WORKERS OR THEIR FAMILIES WHICH THIS BILL

WILL PUT ON THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE, OR YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA

HAVE AN IMPACT ON THEM?

MS. SIMON: ACTUALLY, I THINK THEY ARE WORRIED

ABOUT SOMETHING THAT ISN'T, IN FACT, THE CASE. I DO WORRY ABOUT WORKERS.

I DO WORRY ABOUT THEIR FAMILIES. I DO WORRY ABOUT THEIR HEALTH AND THE

HEALTH OF OUR CLIMATE AS WELL. IN FACT, THERE'S NO -- THERE'S NO EVIDENCE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

TO SUGGEST THAT THEY WILL BE LOSING JOBS BECAUSE, NUMBER ONE, IF

SOMEONE IS INSTALLING NEW GAS, THEY'RE INSTALLING NEW GAS. THE LAYING

OF ADDITIONAL GAS PIPES IS MORE AFFECTED BY THE CLCPA THAN -- IT'S NOT

AT ALL AFFECTED BY THIS BILL. SO I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK THAT THAT'S A -- A

CONCERN THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE.

MR. PALMESANO: SO I KNOW I'M KIND OF BOUNCING

AROUND A LITTLE BIT HERE. SO THIS ONLY AFFECTS RESIDENTIAL.

MS. SIMON: MM-HMM.

MR. PALMESANO: SO COMMERCIAL WOULD STILL GET

THE SUBSIDY, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: COMMERCIAL STILL DOES. AND IT MATTERS

-- I SAID A -- THAT'S A MATTER OF REGULATION, THAT'S NOT A MATTER OF LAW.

MR. PALMESANO: I'M SORRY. WHAT WAS THAT LAST

PART?

MS. SIMON: THAT'S A MATTER OF REGULATION. THE PSC

COULD CHANGE IT TOMORROW ANYWAY.

MR. PALMESANO: YES.

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH THIS IS GONNA IMPACT

A -- A CUST -- A NEW HOMEOWNER IN COSTS? IN SOME ESTIMATES WE'VE

SEEN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

MS. SIMON: COULD YOU PLEASE REPEAT --

MR. PALMESANO: YES. DO YOU --

MS. SIMON: I DIDN'T QUITE HEAR WHAT YOU SAID.

MR. PALMESANO: DO -- DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA

HOW MUCH THIS WILL COST NEW CUSTOMERS, BECAUSE IF THEY HAVE TO PAY

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

FOR THIS HOOKUP ON THEIR OWN. WOULDN'T THAT ADDITIONAL COST BE

SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD -- IT'S MORE THAN $5-, $10,000 FOR

HOOKUPS TO DO THOSE HOOKUPS IN THEIR HOME? WON'T THAT INCREASE THE

PRICE OF HOMES?

MS. SIMON: WELL, IF -- IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE PUTTING

UP A NEW HOME, YOU SHOULD PAY FOR THE CONNECTION. THAT'S ALL THIS

SAYS. AND THE CONNECTION, BY THE WAY, SHOULD BE PAID FOR BY THE

PERSON WHO'S PUTTING IT IN INSTEAD OF YOUR NEIGHBORS, WHICH IS NOT A

GOOD WAY TO GET OFF ON THE RIGHT FOOT WITH YOUR NEIGHBORS, I MIGHT SAY.

BUT THE REALITY IS THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO AFFECT MOST PEOPLE UNLESS YOU

ARE PUTTING IN A NEW CONNECTION. AND IF YOU'RE CONVERTING, LET'S SAY,

FROM OIL TO NATURAL GAS, THAT'S A BIG EXPENSIVE JOB ANYWAY. NOW, THE

COST WILL VARY. IT'S CHEAPER THE CLOSER YOU ARE TO A PIPELINE, MORE

EXPENSIVE IF YOU'RE FARTHER AWAY. SO THAT'S GONNA BE A DIFFERENT COST

ANYWAY. AND IF YOU WERE PUTTING IN THIS NEW LINE AND IT WAS 101 FEET

AWAY FROM THE GAS LINE, YOU WOULD BE PAYING THE FULL COST ANYWAY.

THIS DOESN'T CHANGE THAT.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT RELIABILITY. NYISO CAME OUT WITH

A REPORT LAST -- TWO WEEKS AGO TALKING ABOUT THINNESS IN THE RELIABILITY

OF THE GRID. SPECIFICALLY THEY CITED THE NEED TO POSSIBLY BRING BACK

SHUTTERED POWER PLANTS, SHUTTERED FOSSIL FUEL POWER PLANTS AND THAT

EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE ON THE TABLE. ISN'T THIS GONNA JEOPARDIZE THE

ABILITY TO HAVE OPPORTUNITY FOR RELIABLE NATURAL GAS AND IT'S GONNA COST

MORE FOR HOMEOWNERS, NEW PEOPLE? BUT AGAIN, I WILL STILL ARGUE AND I

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

WILL ARGUE LATER THAT IT'S SAVING THE CUSTOMERS BECAUSE THEY'RE ON THE

SYSTEM, SO THEY'RE SUB -- THEY'RE SHARING IN THAT COST. NOW THAT COST

WILL BE BORNE BY FEWER PEOPLE WITH YOUR BILL.

MS. SIMON: NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL. THIS IS JUST

SAYING IF YOU PUT IN A NEW CONNECTION, YOU PAY FOR IT. THAT'S ALL IT SAYS.

MR. PALMESANO: AND REMIND ME THE REASON

AGAIN WHY ELECTRIC IS OKAY BUT NOT GAS.

MS. SIMON: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S CHEAPER, NUMBER

ONE.

MR. PALMESANO: IT'S NOT, BUT THAT'S OKAY.

MS. SIMON: AND NUMBER TWO, I'M SORRY?

MR. PALMESANO: SORRY.

MS. SIMON: OKAY. IT -- IT -- NUMBER ONE, THE OTHER

THING AS A MATTER OF POLICY AND A MATTER OF SAFETY, YOU NEED ELECTRICITY.

EVERYBODY NEEDS ELECTRICITY, EVERYBODY DOESN'T NEED GAS. AND IN FACT,

MANY, MANY RENEWABLE SYSTEMS ARE JUST AS RELIABLE, JUST AS MUCH MORE

SAFE FOR EVERYONE AND ARE CHEAPER AND MUCH MORE EFFICIENT. SO IF YOU

HAVE A HEAT PUMP THAT IS PROVIDING HEAT OR COOLING AND WE HAVE A BIG

PROBLEM IN THE SUMMER NOW BECAUSE THE PEAKS HAPPENS IN THE

SUMMER. IF THEY'RE DOING THAT WITH A HEAT PUMP, IT'S MUCH MORE

RELIABLE, MUCH MORE EFFICIENT AND THEREFORE CHEAPER.

MR. PALMESANO: YOU THINK A -- YOU THINK A HEAT

PUMP'S A MORE RELIABLE POWER ENERGY FOR HEAT THAN A -- A TRADITIONAL

NATURAL GAS BOILER OR FURNACE?

(CONFERENCING)

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THAT IS NOT A RELEVANT

TOPIC TO THIS BILL. ALL THIS BILL SAYS IS --

MR. PALMESANO: I THINK IT IS.

MS. SIMON: -- YOU -- IT IS NOT. IF YOU DECIDE TO PUT

IN A NEW GAS CONNECTION AND YOU'RE A RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER, YOU AND I

DON'T PAY FOR THAT PERSON TO DO IT, THEY PAY FOR IT THEMSELVES.

MR. PALMESANO: ISN'T IT REALLY YOUR DESIRE WITH

THIS BILL AND BILLS LIKE IT, YOU WANT -- ISN'T -- DOESN'T THE MAJORITY -- YOU

-- YOU WANT PEOPLE OFF NATURAL GAS AND YOU WANT THEM ON FULL ELECTRIC,

RIGHT? ISN'T THAT THE GOAL?

MS. SIMON: WE HAVE A CLIMATE LEADERSHIP AND

COMMUNITY PROTECTION ACT AND A STATE CLIMATE PAN -- PLAN. THE FACT IS,

GETTING OFF FOSSIL FUELS IS SAFER AND HEALTHIER FOR EVERYBODY. THIS IS

ONLY THAT -- THAT POLICY MAKES IS -- IS GOOD FOR -- FOR CHILDREN AND OTHER

LIVING THINGS. SO, THIS IS NOT INCONSISTENT WITH THAT POLICY, BUT DOESN'T

IN FACT TAKE ANYBODY OFF OF FOSSIL FUELS. RIGHT NOW THEY WOULD HAVE --

THEY -- THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. THEY WOULD HAVE THAT CHOICE IF THEY

DECIDE -- LET'S SAY THEY DECIDE TO PUT IN A NEW CONNECTION TO GAS AND

THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO COST MORE THAN I WANTED IT TO COST.

MAYBE I'LL GO WITH SOMETHING ELSE. THEY CAN DO THAT.

MR. PALMESANO: WELL, I KNOW YOU MENTIONED

ENERGY CHOICE AND THAT'S -- THAT'S A REAL BIG PART OF THIS DISCUSSION. SO,

YOU DON'T FEEL IN SOME INSTANCES WITH THIS BILL YOU'RE TAKING AWAY

ENERGY CHOICE THE ABILITY TO HOOK UP FOR NATURAL GAS --

MS. SIMON: NO.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. PALMESANO: -- FOR LOWER INCOME PEOPLE THAT

MIGHT NOT HAVE THAT ADDITIONAL FUNDS? NOW THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO

PAY MORE OUT OF POCKET AND -- AND -- AND THAT WON'T CONTRADICT WITH THE

HOUSING CRISIS THAT WE'RE HAVING HERE IN NEW YORK?

MS. SIMON: IF YOU ARE BUILDING A NEW BUILDING --

MR. PALMESANO: YEP.

MS. SIMON: -- AND PUTTING IN GAS, YOU CAN AFFORD TO

PAY FOR THE CONNECTION. IF YOU ARE BUILDING A NEW BUILDING AND YOU

DON'T HAVE THIS -- THE AMOUNT OF MONEY IT TAKES TO CONNECT TO GAS, YOU

PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE BUILDING THAT BUILDING.

MR. PALMESANO: SO, I WANT TO GO BACK TO

RELIABILITY AGAIN, IF I MAY --

MS. SIMON: MM-HMM.

MR. PALMESANO: -- BECAUSE I -- I STARTED TALKING

ABOUT IT AND I THINK WE KINDA GOT OFF SIDE-TRACKED. THE -- THE -- THE

NYISO CAME OUT WITH A REPORT IN THEIR POWER TRENDS REPORT AGAIN,

SAYING THAT THERE IS THINNESS IN THE MARGINS AND THAT WE NEED TO MAKE

SURE WE'RE PROTECTING THE GRID AND THAT, OBVIOUSLY, RECOGNIZING THE --

THE PLAN THAT'S IN PLACE OR THE CLCPA IS REALLY TO GET TO FULL

ELECTRIFICATION BY 2040 FOR GENERATING PURPOSES. YOU TALKED ABOUT

HEATING, YOU KNOW, NEW HOMES. YOU KNOW, IN BUFFALO -- YOU KNOW,

60 PERCENT OF PEOPLE IN NEW YORK HEAT -- HEAT THEIR HOMES WITH

NATURAL GAS. FORTY PERCENT OF OUR GENERATION COMES FROM NATURAL GAS.

THAT NUMBER IS EVEN HIGHER IN WESTERN NEW YORK, THE BUFFALO AREA.

SO, WITH THE -- THE NYISO SAYING THAT THE RELIABILITY OF THE GRID IS IN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

JEOPARDY WITH -- WITH THE THINNESS IN THE MARGINS AND NOW THEY'RE

TALKING ABOUT LOOKING TO REOPEN SHUTTERED POWER PLANTS, SHUTTERED

FOSSIL FUEL PLANTS, SHOULDN'T WE BE LOOKING TO KEEP WHAT WE CAN ON LINE

AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO HOOK UP TO A RELIABLE SOURCE OF ENERGY,

WHICH NATURAL GAS IS RELIABLE, IT'S AFFORDABLE AND IT'S DISPATCHABLE.

ELECTRIC HEAT, BASED ON RENEWALS -- RENEWABLES IS NOT DISPATCHABLE.

MS. SIMON: OKAY. SO, FIRST OF ALL, THIS BILL ONLY

TALKS ABOUT WHO PAYS FOR THE GAS CONNECTION.

MR. PALMESANO: YEAH, I KNOW THAT BUT --

MS. SIMON: THAT'S ALL -- THAT'S ALL THIS BILL TALKS

ABOUT. SO, THE REALITY IS THAT WHILE WESTERN NEW YORK DOES HAVE A LOT

OF GAS CUSTOMERS, IT'S ACTUALLY VERY INEXPENSIVE, THE GAS IS MUCH MORE

INEXPENSIVE IN WESTERN NEW YORK. IN NEW YORK CITY, FOR EXAMPLE,

IT'S, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE TO DO THAT. SO,

BUT, AGAIN, THIS IS ONLY ABOUT PUTTING IN WHO PAYS FOR THE GAS

CONNECTION. IN THE NYISO REPORT, LET ME REMIND YOU THAT NYISO IS

ABOUT THE ELECTRIC GRID, NOT THE GAS GRID. AND SO WE ARE TALKING ONLY

ABOUT THE ELECTRIC GRID.

MR. PALMESANO: BUT, MS. SIMON, YOU REALIZE

THAT ELECTRICITY IS PRODUCED BY NATURAL GAS AND THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS

THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS ALL GOING TO AFFECT THE PRICE OF NATURAL

GAS.

MS. SIMON: SO, THANK YOU FOR ACKNOWLEDGING THAT

MUCH ELECTRICITY IS PRODUCED BY NATURAL GAS --

MR. PALMESANO: FORTY PERCENT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: THAT'S RIGHT, 40 PERCENT AND THE FACT IS

THAT WE ARE -- NEW RENEWABLES ARE PRODUCING JUST -- ARE CAPABLE OF

PRODUCING JUST AS MUCH ELECTRICITY AND THEY ARE INCREASING IN THEIR

RELIABILITY AND THEIR COST EFFICIENCY OVER TIME BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY.

AND TECHNOLOGY IN FIVE YEARS, YOU WON'T EVEN HAVE A QUESTION. IN LESS

THAN FIVE YEARS YOU WON'T HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THIS.

MR. PALMESANO: WELL, I'M -- I'M SURE THERE'LL BE

PLENTY OF QUESTIONS IN FIVE YEARS --

MS. SIMON: YOU MIGHT STILL HAVE A QUESTION.

MR. PALMESANO: -- THERE'S QUESTIONS NOW AND I

THINK THAT'S PROBLEMATIC.

LET'S TALK ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES. UTILITIES PAY SOME OF

THE HIGHEST PROPERTY TAXES IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. SO, AND FOR A GAS

CUSTOMER THEY GET PAID ON THE AMOUNT OF GAS THAT GOES THROUGH THE

PIPES, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY PAID FOR PLUS FIXED COSTS. SO, IF YOU HAVE

LESS GAS GOING THROUGH THE PIPES, THAT'S GOING TO HAVE LESS PROPERTY

TAXES BEING PAID THAT'S GOING TO BE SHIFTED TO THE PROPERTY TAXPAYER,

CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: WELL, I -- I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THE

PROPERTY TAX ELEMENT OF THE AMOUNT OF GAS GOING THROUGH A PIPE IS NOT

SOMETHING I'M FAMILIAR WITH. I DOUBT VERY MUCH ANYBODY IS PAYING

PROPERTY TAXES ON THE AMOUNT OF GAS IN A PIPE. BUT GAS FILLS THE PIPE,

RIGHT? GAS AND NOT WATER. IT FILLS -- IT -- IT'S GOING TO MAINTAIN THAT

PRESSURE. BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THIS IS NOT TAKING OUT A PIPELINE.

WHEREVER THERE'S A PROPERTY TAX BEING PAID ON THE FOSSIL FUEL

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

INFRASTRUCTURE, THAT PROPERTY TAX, WHICH BY THE WAY, IS BORNE BY YOU

AND I, WILL IN FACT REMAIN. SO, REMEMBER THAT THE UTILITY ITSELF DOESN'T

EVER PAY FOR ANYTHING. YOU AND I PAY FOR EVERYTHING.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. SO, IT IS YOUR CONTENTION,

NUMBER ONE, THAT -- THAT SINCE THIS IS RESIDENTIAL AND AS NEW

CONSTRUCTION IS NOT GOING TO BE AN ADDITIONAL COST OF THE -- THE

HOMEOWNER. IS THAT YOUR ARGUMENT?

MS. SIMON: MY ARGUMENT IS, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO

PUT IN A GAS LINE THAT'S BRAND NEW, THEY SHOULD PAY FOR IT, NOT YOU AND I.

THAT'S THE ARGUMENT.

MR. PALMESANO: SO, ALL RIGHT. AND I KEEP

BOUNCING BACK AND FORTH AND I APOLOGIZE. I WANT TO GET BACK TO THE JOB

PORTION OF THIS, TOO. I TALKED ABOUT THE PIPELINE CONTRACTORS. YOU SAID

THERE'S NO CONSIDERATION OR CONCERN FOR THESE WORKERS, BECAUSE YOU DO

-- I KNOW YOU RECOGNIZE THAT SOME OF THESE SPECIAL UNION

APPRENTICESHIPS FOR GAS WORKERS ARE FIVE YEARS LONG, THEY HAVE TO GET

RECERTIFIED ON A YEARLY BASIS. IS IT YOUR BELIEF THAT, YOU KNOW, WE MAKE

THIS SWITCH TO ELECTRIC THAT THERE -- THERE -- THEY CAN MAKE THAT SWITCH TO

THE ELECTRIC FIELD JUST LIKE THAT? IS THAT YOUR BELIEF?

MS. SIMON: WELL, A, NO, THAT IS NOT MY BELIEF AND

THAT WAS NOT AN -- A -- A -- AN ACCURATE RECITATION OF MY PRIOR RESPONSE

BUT THIS BILL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ELECTRIC GRID. THIS BILL HAS TO DO

WITH WHO PAYS FOR SETTING UP A NEW GAS CONNECTION IN A RESIDENTIAL

PROPERTY. THAT IS ALL.

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY. A COUPLE MORE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

QUESTIONS HERE IF YOU'D JUST BEAR WITH ME.

SO, YOU TALKED PROPERTY TAXES, YOU TALKED A LITTLE BIT

ABOUT RELIABILITY AND IT'S STILL YOUR CONTENTION THAT THIS WOULD NOT DO

ANYTHING TO JEOPARDIZE THE RELIABILITY GRID, BECAUSE PEOPLE WON'T HAVE

-- THEY'LL STILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS GAS. IS THAT YOU -- IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE

SAYING?

MS. SIMON: I'M SORRY, COULD YOU -- THE LAST -- THE

LAST SENTENCE YOU KIND OF MUMBLED A LITTLE.

MR. PALMESANO: IT'S STILL -- IT'S STILL YOUR

CONTENTION THAT WITH THIS, THE -- THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP

BY THE NYISO ON RELIABILITY FACTORS, THE SHORTFALLS THAT ARE IN PLACE, THE

FACT THAT NOW LESS PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE -- WELL, THE -- THEY MIGHT NOT

HAVE ACCESS TO NATURAL GAS BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE MORE EXPENSIVE FOR

THEM AND THAT'S YOUR CONTENTION THEN, RIGHT?

MS. SIMON: THIS BILL DOES NOTHING TO ELIMINATE

THEIR ACCESS TO GAS --

MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT.

MS. SIMON: -- IT JUST SAYS, YOU WANT TO PUT IN A NEW

LINE, YOU PAY FOR IT. BY THE WAY, YOU AND I ARE PAYING FOR THEIR -- THEIR

PROPERTY TAXES AS WELL.

MR. PALMESANO: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MS.

SIMON.

I'M GOING TO GO ON THE BILL FROM HERE ON, I THINK.

MS. SIMON: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MR. PALMESANO: THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

YOU KNOW, MY COLLEAGUE SAYS THIS IS GOING TO SAVE TAXPAYERS MONEY

SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF A COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS.

THE COSTS WE'RE SEEING COMING DOWN THE PIPELINE WITH THE ENACTMENT

OF THE CLCPA TO THE MARCH TOWARDS FULL ELECTRIFICATION WHICH IS

ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO GET OFF NATURAL GAS, TO GET ONTO ELECTRIFICATION,

THERE WA JUST A -- A POLL PUT OUT IN PLACE THAT SAID 71 PERCENT OF NEW

YORKERS WANT TO KEEP THEIR NATURAL GAS, TWO-THIRDS OF NEW YORKERS

WANT A BALANCE BETWEEN RENEWABLES AND NATURAL GAS, INCLUDING 74

PERCENT OF DEMOCRATS. THIS IS JUST REALLY I THINK AN ENERGY POLICY --

PART OF AN OVERALL ENERGY POLICY THAT AFFORDABILITY, RELIABILITY AND

FEASIBILITY ARE NOT A PRIORITY, ESPECIALLY WHEN PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING

WITH HIGH UTILITY BILLS. AGAIN, AS WE SAID, 60 PERCENT OF NEW YORKERS

ARE HEATING THEIR HOMES WITH NATURAL GAS. FORTY PERCENT OF OUR

GENERATION IS COMING FROM NATURAL GAS. THIS POLICY -- THE OTHER POLICY

LIKE THE HEAT ACT, OTHER POLICIES, THE CLC -- ALL DERIVES FROM THE

CLCPA, WHICH WE PASSED IN 2019. IT'S REALLY DESIGNED -- THE PLAN IS

PRETTY OBVIOUS; IT'S TO DESIGN, TO DISMANTLE. THE AFFORDABLE AND RELIABLE

NATURAL GAS INFRASTRUCTURE SUPPLY AND DELIVERY SYSTEM IS DESIGNED

ULTIMATELY TO TAKE AWAY CONSUMER CHOICE ON HOW YOU HEAT YOU HOME,

COOK YOUR FOOD, POWER YOUR BUILDING AND THE VEHICLE YOU DRIVE. IT WILL

JEOPARDIZE THE RELIABILITY OF THE GRID, LEADING TO DANGEROUS BLACKOUTS

AND IT WILL CONTINUE OUR NATION LEADING OUT-MIGRATION. THIS IS REALLY A

MARCH TOWARDS FULL ELECTRIFICATION, AND THE ELECTRICITY IS GOING TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

INCREASE THE DEMAND ON THE ELECTRICITY, WHICH WILL INCREASE ELECTRICITY

RATES AND I'LL TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE ELECTRICITY RATES IN A LITTLE BIT.

RIGHT NOW THE PSC HAS A GAS PLANNING PROCEEDINGS GOING ON THAT ARE

LOOKING AT THE AFFORDABILITY OF ELECTRICITY, THE PACE OF ELECTRIFICATION,

CAN THE ELECTRIC SYSTEM RELIABLY PROVIDE POWER AND THE HEATING NEEDS

OF PEOPLE. LOOKING AT ALTERNATIVE FUELS LIKE RENEWABLE NATURAL GAS AND

HYDROGEN, LOOKING AT -- FOCUSING ON RELIABLE SERVICE. WE SHOULD BE

WAITING TO SEE WHAT THESE RESULTS COME OUT WITH BEFORE WE MOVE

FORWARD WITH PLANS LIKE THIS.

I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT THE 100-FOOT RULE BEING A

SUBSIDY. YEAH, THERE'S A SUBSIDY TO IT, BUT WHAT THIS WILL DO IS IT'S GOING

TO INCREASE THE COST OF NEW HOMES AND BUSINESSES, BECAUSE SAYING THAT

IT'S GOING TO INCREASE COSTS BY -- WITH WHERE WE ARE NOW ISN'T ACCURATE

BECAUSE IT WILL INCREASE THE COST OF HOMES, IT'S GOING TO JEOPARDIZE

GOOD, RELIABLE PAYING JOBS FOR UNION WORKERS AND WILL INCREASE RATES

FOR THE REST OF US BECAUSE, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, WHEN NEW PEOPLE

GET ON THE GAS SERVICE THAT ARE HELPING TO CONTRIBUTE TO PAY FOR THE

EXISTING FIXED COSTS OF THE OPERATIONAL, OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE, OF THE

CAPITAL COSTS, THEY'RE HELPING TO PAY FOR THAT. SO, IT'S NOT A ONE-TO-ONE

SAVINGS THAT'S GOING TO BE PAID BACK OVER TIME, THAT -- FIGURED THAT'S

AMORTIZED OVER 60 YEARS. THE -- THE RATE PAID, THAT MONEY'S BEING PAID

BACK THROUGH THE RATES, AND ALL OF US ARE BENEFITING FROM IT BECAUSE IT'S

A RELIABLE, AFFORDABLE SOURCE OF ENERGY. AND WHEN WE CAN HAVE THAT

FIXED COST COVERED WITH MORE RATEPAYERS, IT'LL COVER THE OPERATION, IT'LL

COVER THE CAPITOL FIXED COST, THAT'S A BENEFIT TO EVERYONE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

YOU KNOW, AS I'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, YOU KNOW, I'LL

SAY IT AGAIN, IT'S REALLY -- MY CONCERN IS WHERE WE'RE HEADING DOWN THIS

TRACK IS TO REALLY GET AWAY FROM NATURAL GAS. IT'S A CLEANING BURNING

FUEL, IT'S A RELIABLE, IT'S A DISPATCHABLE BURNING FUEL. AND I'VE OFTEN

HEARD OF NATURAL GAS AS BEING A BRIDGE FUEL. WELL, YOU DON'T TEAR DOWN

A BRIDGE BEFORE YOU BUILD A NEW ONE, BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S

HAPPENING WITH THE POLICY HERE THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN PLACE IN THE STATE

OF NEW YORK.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT COST, AND I KNOW MY -- MY -- MY

COLLEAGUE TALKED HOW THIS IS GOING TO SAVE COSTS FOR RATEPAYERS. I'D LIKE

TO SEE THE CONCERN FOR THE RATEPAYER, BUT EVERYTHING IS BEING ADVANCED

IN THIS HOUSE AND IS BEING ADVOCATED SINCE THE CLCPA IN 2019 IS NOT

HELPING THE RATEPAYERS. AS WE TALKED ABOUT THE EMISSIONS THAT ARE

BEING MEASURED UNDER THE CLCPA, WHICH IS DRIVING UP RATES, SAID IF

WE DON'T MAKE THE CHANGE TO THE EMISSIONS, STANDARDS THAT ARE BEING

USED BY EVERY OTHER STATE IN THE COUNTRY, BY INTERNATIONAL AND U.S.

CODE, IT WILL INCREASE PRICES AT THE PUMPS FOR NEW YORKERS BY 63 CENTS

A GALLON, WILL IN FACT INCREASE NATURAL GAS HOME HEATING COSTS, WHICH

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NATURAL GAS, FOR NEW YORKERS BY 79 PERCENT. WE

TALKED ABOUT ELECTRICITY RATES AND RATES, THE PSC IN JULY OF 2023 PASSED

$43 BILLION IN FUTURE RATEPAYER INCREASES TO PAY FOR THESE GREEN ENERGY

MANDATES THAT ARE BEING ADVOCATED. WE TALKED ABOUT THE ELECTRIC, YOU

KNOW, ELECTRIFICATION - AND I KNOW THIS IS TALKING ABOUT (INDISCERNIBLE),

BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS TO CONVERT YOUR HOME, THE PUSH IS TRYING TO

GET PEOPLE OFF NATURAL GAS. WHEN THAT TIME COMES, IT WILL COST THEM

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

OVER $35,000 TO CONVERT THEIR HOME OVER FROM NATURAL TO AFFORDABLE,

RELIABLE, DISPATCHABLE NATURAL GAS TO ELECTRIC THAT ISN'T RELIABLE. AND WE

DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE EV SCHOOL BUS, WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT ACT

REGULATION, WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE ADVANCED CLEAN CAR RULE WHICH

WILL HAVE SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS TO THE GRID. THE GRID HAS JEOPARDY.

IN -- IN 2019, BEFORE WE PASSED THE CLCPA, THE ELECT

-- THE RESIDENTIAL ELECTRICITY RATE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK WAS 70 CENTS

-- 17 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR. NOW, IT'S OVER 26 CENTS PER KILOWATT

HOUR, THAT'S MORE THAN 40 PERCENT HIGHER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. SO,

THE POLICIES THAT ARE BEING PUSHED IN THIS HOUSE ARE DRIVING UP

ELECTRICITY RATES FOR NEW YORKERS. YOU SEE THE ELECTRIC BILLS THAT YOU'RE

GETTING IN THE MAIL, YOU'RE HEARING FROM YOUR CONSTITUENTS. IT'S -- IT'S --

IT'S PROBLEMATIC, BUT WHAT YOU FAIL TO RECOGNIZE REALLY IT'S THE POLICIES

THAT YOU'RE CONTINUING TO BEING ADVANCED IN THIS HOUSE, WHICH

CONTINUE TO DRIVE UP THOSE RATES BECAUSE THEY'RE MANDATED TO DO THESE

THINGS TO PAY FOR THESE GREEN MANDATES THAT ARE BEING IN PLACE. AND

COMMERCIAL RATES ARE VERY, VERY SIMILAR. RELY -- RELIABILITY. SO, THAT'S

SOME OF THE (INDISCERNIBLE), THE RELIABILITY. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT

BUSINESSES IN NEW YORK STATE, THEY CARE ABOUT TWO THINGS WHEN IT

COMES TO ENERGY: AFFORDABLE AND RELIABLE. IF THEY CAN'T GET RELIABLE

ENERGY IN NEW YORK OR AFFORDABLE ENERGY IN NEW YORK, THEY'RE GOING

TO GO ELSEWHERE. THE NYISO HAS SENT OUT A WARNING SIGNAL THAT WE

SHOULD ALL BE HEEDING AND PAYING ATTENTION TO. THEY'RE LITERALLY TALKING

ABOUT POWERING PLANTS THAT HAVE BEEN SHUT DOWN TO MEET THE RELIABILITY

GRIDS CONCERNS THAT ARE OUT THERE. BUT YET, WE SEE TIME AND TIME AGAIN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ABOUT THE NATURAL GAS AND PIPELINES. HERE WE ARE WITH THE -- THE OTHER

THING THE -- THE NYISO SAID, BY 2040, YOU NEED 27 TO 45 GIGAWATTS OF

DISPATCHABLE EMISSION-FREE RESOURCES. GIGAWATT -- ONE GIGAWATT IS

EQUIVALENT OF POWERING 750,000 HOMES. WE NEED 27 TO 45 GIGAWATTS

OF THAT. OUR TOTAL GENERATING CAPACITY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS 41

GIGAWATTS, THAT'S WITH WIND, SOLAR, HYDRO, NUCLEAR, NATURAL GAS. SO, WE

NEED 27 TO 45 GIGAWATTS OF DISPATCHABLE EMISSION-FREE RESOURCES. THE

STATE HAS NO IDEA WHAT THAT RESOURCE IS GOING TO BE. IS IT GOING TO BE

ADVANCED NUCLEAR, IS IT GOING TO BE HYDROGEN, IS IT GOING TO BE

RENEWABLE NATURAL GAS, CARBON CAPTURE AND SEQUESTRATION? WE DON'T

KNOW, NO ONE KNOWS BUT WE CONTINUE DOWN THIS PATH AT FULL SPEED

AHEAD, THIS MARCH TO FULL ELECTRIFICATION, MAKING IT HARDER AND MORE

EXPENSIVE FOR PEOPLE TO HOOK UP ONTO ELECTRIFICATION AND TRY -- TO

NATURAL GAS, AND TRY GET THEM OFF NATURAL GAS. AS I SAID BEFORE, NATURAL

GAS HAS ALWAYS BEEN REFERRED TO AS A BRIDGE FUEL, BUT AGAIN YOU DON'T

TEAR DOWN A BRIDGE BEFORE YOU BUILD A NEW ONE, BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT

WE'RE DOING WITH OUR ENERGY POLICY IN THE STATE. FEASIBILITY, NOT ONLY

DO YOU NEED 27- 45 GIGAWATTS OF DISPATCHABLE EMISSION-FREE RESOURCES,

WE NEED OVER 120 GIGAWATTS OF NEW GENERATION. THAT'S WIND, SOLAR,

HYDRO. I MEAN THAT'S JUST NOT POSSIBLE. THAT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE, THAT'S

NOT FEASIBLE.

IT'S NO DOUBT THIS HOUSE, THE GOVERNOR REALLY HAS

SHOWN AN ANIMOSITY TOWARDS YOU USING NATURAL GAS. FIRST THE BAN ON

PAC -- FRACKING, SECOND, PIPELINE DENIALS FOR GETTING NATURAL GAS,

WHETHER IT'S IN THE NORTHEAST OR THROUGHOUT NEW YORK STATE OR DOWN TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CITY AREAS, HAVING A PIPELINE PROJECT BE DISPLAYED. DENYING AIR

PERMITS FOR NEW NATURAL GAS POWER PLANTS AND ALSO DENYING AIR PERMITS

FOR RENEWALS. AND THEN WE SEE NOW WITH THIS AND WE'VE SEEN OTHER

PROPOSALS THAT REALLY WANT TO JUST HAVE MORE PEOPLE OFF NATURAL GAS. I

WILL REPEAT AGAIN, 71 PERCENT OF NEW YORKERS WANT NATURAL GAS.

SEVENTY-SIX PERCENT OF INDEPENDENTS SAY THAT, THEY DON'T WANT A GAS

BAN, BUT THIS IS -- THIS IS THE ROUTE WE'RE HEADING DOWN WITH THESE

POLICIES. TWO-THIRDS OF NEW YORKERS WANT A BALANCE OF RENEWABLE

AND NATURAL GAS. THEY WANT ALL OF THE ABOVE, INCLUDING 74 PERCENT OF

DEMOCRATS. AND JUST LIKE YOUR 401K, YOU DON'T PUT IT ALL IN STOCKS,

CASH AND BONDS, YOU DIVERSIFY IT TO PROTECT IT, TO MAKE IT MORE RESILIENT.

THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING WITH OUR ENERGY POLICY IN THE STATE OF

NEW YORK. SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS. WE TALK ABOUT COST,

AFFORDABILITY, RELIABILITY, FEASIBILITY, THE PROPERTY TAX BURDEN. I TALKED

ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT. UTILITIES PAY SOME OF THE HIGHEST PROPERTY TAXES

IN THE COUNTRY. OUR POWER PRODUCERS PAY LIKE OVER $1.8 BILLION IN

(INDISCERNIBLE), BUT THE UTILITIES PAY ON THE AMOUNT OF GAS THAT GOES

THROUGH THEIR PIPELINE. IF THE GAS -- AMOUNT OF GAS THAT'S GOING THROUGH

THE PIPELINES HAS DECREASED, THAT'S GOING TO BE LESS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO

BE PAYING IN PROPERTY TAXES, BUT THAT'S GOING TO BE PUT ON THE LOCAL

PROPERTY TAXPAYER MORE IN ADDITION TO HIGHER RATES BECAUSE YOU HAVE --

THOSE TWO YOU STILL HAVE THOSE SAME FIXED COSTS WITH LESS USERS. TALK

ABOUT LAND USE. OUR LAND USE FOR WIND AND SOLAR HAS TAKEN UP LANDS IN

UPSTATE NEW YORK, TAKEN UP FARMLANDS. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE -- THE

BATTERIES FOR POWERING EVS, YOU KNOW, THE HUMAN RIGHTS AND THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTIONS FROM THAT. TALK ABOUT ENERGY SECURITY WITH

WIND, SOLAR. WITH SOLAR, 80 -- 80 PLUS PERCENT OF SOLAR IS -- COMES FROM

CHINA. EIGHTY PERCENT OF THE RARE EARTH MATERIALS COME FROM CHINA,

AND I KNOW THIS IS DONE UNDER THE GUISE OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL

EMISSIONS, BUT I WILL REMIND MY COLLEAGUES IN THIS HOUSE, .4 PERCENT,

JUST .4 PERCENT OF GLOBAL EMISSIONS COME FROM NEW YORK. THIRTY

PERCENT COME FROM CHINA AND CHINA HAS 1,000 COAL PLANTS AND

BUILDING MORE EVERY WEEK, OVER 1,000 A WEEK -- THEY HAVE 1,000 COAL

PLANTS AND BUILDING MORE EVERY WEEK. IN FACT, LAST YEAR, CHINA

EXPANDED THEIR COAL GENERATING CAPACITY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK BY

95 GIGAWATTS. THINK ABOUT THAT. THEY EXPANDED THEIR COAL GENERATING

CAPACITY BY DOUBLE WHAT OUR TOTAL GENERATING CAPACITY IN NEW YORK.

HOW DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE TO ANYONE? IT'S JUST MORE COST, MORE

BURDEN ON OUR RATEPAYERS, ON OUR BUSINESSES.

AND I'LL -- I'LL JUST -- I'LL CLOSE, I THINK THIS IS A

STATEMENT FROM THE -- THE LABORERS PACK EXPRESSING THEIR OPPOSITION TO

THIS LEGISLATION: THIS LEGISLATION, WHILE -- WHILE WELL-INTENTIONED,

WOULD LEAD TO INCREASED COSTS FOR RATEPAYERS, THE LOSS OF CAREER TRACK

CONSTRUCTION JOBS AND AN UNRELIABLE ELECTRICAL GRID. THE TRANSMISSION

TO AN EMISSION-FREE FUTURE MUST ACCOUNT FOR CURRENT REALITIES, WHICH

INCLUDES THE IMPACT ON GRID RELIABILITY AND THE POTENTIAL FOR ADVERSE

FISCAL AND ECONOMIC IMPLICATIONS. I THINK THOSE THREE -- SEVERAL LINES

SUMS IT UP PRETTY GOOD. THIS IS A PROBLEM MOVING FORWARD. I -- I -- I

JUST THINK IT'S THE WRONG POLICY. I CONTINUE TO SEE THE POLICY, I CONTINUE

TO SEE THE CONCERNS COMING OUT FROM THE OTHER SIDE ABOUT HIGH

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ELECTRICAL -- HIGH UTILITY BILLS, BUT IT'S QUICK TO GO AFTER THE UTILITIES

WHEN -- FOR -- WHEN THEY GO FOR RATE INCREASES, BUT WHEN THE PSC

APPROVED $43 BILLION IN FUTURE RATE PAY INCREASES TO PAY FOR THE GREEN

ENERGY MANDATES THAT THIS HOUSE IS ADVOCATING FOR, I DIDN'T HEAR

ANYONE SPEAK UP. OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE WILL CONTINUE TO SPEAK UP FOR

THE RATEPAYER, OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE WILL CONTINUE TO POINT OUT THE FLAWS

WITH THE ENERGY POLICY IN THE STATE, WHETHER IT'S THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS,

WHETHER IT'S THE RELIABILITY CRISIS, WHETHER IT'S THE FEASIBILITY OF THIS

POLICY NOT BEING FEASIBLE. WE WILL CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT IT, WE WILL

CONTINUE TO ACT AND HOPEFULLY AT SOME POINT IN TIME, THIS HOUSE WILL

UNDERSTAND THAT AND MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS TO ADDRESS THESE POLICIES

THAT AREN'T GOING TO WORK FOR THE PUBLIC WE REPRESENT. IT'S NOT GOING TO

WORK FOR THE SENIOR CITIZENS, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK FOR THE VETERAN --

DISABLED VETERAN, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK FOR OUR SMALL BUSINESSES AND

MANUFACTURES, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK FOR ANYONE. SO, FOR THESE REASONS,

MADAM SPEAKER, AND FOR A WHOLE --A WHOLE HOST OF OTHER REASONS, I'M

GOING TO BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE AND I WOULD URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO

DO THE SAME. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. ARI BROWN.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. SIMON: YES.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR. I'D

LIKE TO FOCUS ON THE AMENDMENT OF SECTION 31 OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE

LAW. I FOUND THAT IT'S VERY LIMITED IN THE AMENDMENT AND THERE'S A LOT

OF CONFLICTS. I HAVE A FEELING WE'LL PROBABLY BE BACK FOR A CHAPTER

AMENDMENT AT SOME POINT, BUT LET'S GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT IF YOU DON'T

MIND.

MS. SIMON: CHAPTER AMENDMENT?

MR. A. BROWN: AS PUBLIC SERVICE LAW WE KNOW

IT'S DESIGNED TO ENSURE FAIR, UNIVERSAL ACCESS TO GAS AND ELECTRIC UTILITY

SERVICE IN NEW YORK. SO, THIS -- THIS PARTICULAR BILL DOESN'T ELIMINATE

GAS SERVICE, IT JUST CHANGES THE DYNAMICS OF HOW IT'S PROVIDED. AND

THAT BEING SAID, HOW CAN WE CLAIM TO UPHOLD THIS PUBLIC SERVICE LAW

MANDATE FOR FAIR AND EQUITABLE ACCESS TO UTILITY SERVICE WHEN THIS BILL

MAKES GAS ACCESS FINANCIALLY UNREACHABLE FOR TENS OF THOUSANDS OF

WORKING CLASS FAMILIES? IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU'RE RICH, OKAY, I'LL PAY

FOR THE SERVICE, BUT THOSE WHO CAN'T AFFORD IT, IT BECOMES A LUXURY ITEM?

MS. SIMON: I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THE PREMISE OF

YOUR QUESTION IN -- IN ITS ENTIRETY. THE REALITY IS THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO

WITH THE AFFORDABILITY, EXCEPT THAT BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE PAYING -- IF

YOU BUILD A NEW BUILDING, A NEW RESIDENTIAL HOOKUP AND YOU'RE

BUILDING THAT BUILDING AND THERE'S A NEW RESIDENTIAL GAS HOOKUP, YOU

PAY FOR IT. IF YOU WERE BUILDING THAT WITHIN A HUNDRED FEET, YOU

WOULDN'T -- ALL YOUR NEIGHBORS WOULD PAY. AND WHAT THIS BILL SAYS IS, IF

YOU CAN AFFORD TO BUILD A BUILDING, YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY BUILDING

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SOMETHING, PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. THAT'S FAIR AND EQUITABLE. HAS NOTHING

TO DO WITH ACCESS, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RELIABILITY OF THE SYSTEM.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

MAYBE I WASN'T CLEAR. AS WE KNOW THROUGHOUT THE STATE -- STATE OF

NEW YORK, YOU CAN BUY A HOUSE FOR 100,000, YOU CAN BUY A HOME FOR

$100 MILLION. THE PERSON WHO'S BUILDING THE $100 MILLION HOME, WELL,

AN EXTRA 10- OR $15,000 TO RUN THIS SERVICE MAY NOT BE A BIG DEAL, BUT

THE PERSON, THE HARDWORKING BLUE-COLLARED PERSON THAT SCRIMPED AND

SAVED AND WAS ABLE -- HE HAS A PIECE OF LAND, PERHAPS IT WAS INHERITED,

SAID, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE GAS SERVICE. TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS, TEN PERCENT

OF THE COST OF THE HOME THAT IT'S GOING TO COST ME TO BUILD IS JUST TOO

MUCH. SO WE'RE SAYING THE RICH GUY CAN HAVE IT AND NOW THE POOR GUY

CAN'T?

MS. SIMON: IF THE POOR GUY IS BUILDING A NEW HOME

WITHIN 100 FEET OF THE GAS LINE, HE CAN AFFORD TO BUILD A NEW HOME

WITHIN 100 FEET OF THE GAS LINE. THE CLOSER IT IS TO THE GAS LINE, THE COST

OF THE CONNECTION IS CHEAPER. THE COST OF THE SERVICE, THE COST OF YOUR

GAS ON AN ONGOING BASIS FOR -- TO -- THAT IS, YOU KNOW, HEATING YOUR

HOME, IT DOESN'T CHANGE AT ALL. THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD CHANGE IS

THAT THE REST OF US WOULD NOT BE PAYING FOR YOUR HOOKUP, WHICH WOULD

SAVE US ALL A COUPLE OF BUCKS. AND YOU KNOW, SECTION 31 OF THE PUBLIC

SERVICE LAW DIDN'T INCLUDE THE 100-FOOT LAW UNTIL 1981. SO, YOU

KNOW, PEOPLE HAD GAS BEFORE THAT, TOO.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

MS. SIMON: AND THEY PAID FOR IT THEMSELVES.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. A. BROWN: SINCE I WAS BUILDING BEFORE THAT, I

CAN TELL YOU IT WAS -- GAS WAS A LOT CHEAPER BACK THEN. THE SERVICE WAS

NOT.

MS. SIMON: IT'S NOT ABOUT THE COST OF GAS. GAS ITSELF

IS NOT GOING UP. GAS ITSELF HAS BEEN STABLE. WHAT HAS GONE UP IS THE

DELIVERY CHARGES. AND IN THE DELIVERY CHARGES IS THE 100-FOOT RULE THAT

YOU AND I ARE PAYING FOR AND WE'RE SAYING THE OTHER RATEPAYERS SHOULD

BENEFIT BY -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO BUY -- BUILD A HOUSE, YOU'RE GOING TO,

LET'S SAY, CONVERT FROM OIL. YOU'RE DOING THAT, IT'S A BIG JOB.

CALCULATING THE COST OF THAT CONNECTION, WHICH IS NOT THAT MUCH MONEY,

TO JUST DO THE CONNECTION, RIGHT? IT'S JUST THE CONNECTION, IT'S NOT THE

ONGOING SERVICE.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR. YOU

-- YOU MADE A POINT, SO I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT. WHAT DO YOU

CONSIDER NOT EXPENSIVE? A HUNDRED FOOT OR LESS TO YOUR TYPICAL HOME,

MIDDLE OF NEW YORK.

MS. SIMON: WELL, IN THE MIDDLE OF NEW YORK,

THERE IS MANY -- THERE ARE MANY PLACES THAT ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE GAS AT

ALL. SO, THAT WOULD BE VERY EXPENSIVE. SO, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW

FAR AWAY YOU ARE FROM THE MAIN, WHAT KIND OF TERRAIN YOU'RE GOING

THROUGH AND YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE ESTIMATES ARE AS LOW AS $500 TO

CONNECT TO A NEW SYSTEM. OTHERS ARE HIGHER, IT DEPENDS ON THE -- THE

SIZE OF THE BUILDING, WHAT SIZE CONNECTOR YOU NEED. SO, THESE ARE ALL

COSTS THAT ARE ALREADY KNOWN TO PEOPLE WHO DO THIS WORK AND THE

REALITY IS, YOU AND I, WE BELIEVE, SHOULD NOT BE PAYING FOR THE GUY NEXT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

DOOR TO PUT IN A BRAND NEW CONNECTION. HE SHOULD BE PAYING FOR IT

HIMSELF IF HE CAN AFFORD -- IF HE'S DOING THAT WORK, HE CAN AFFORD TO PAY

FOR IT.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

COULD YOU CITE WHERE YOU GOT THAT AS LOW AS $500 FEE? AND ARE YOU

FAMILIAR --

MS. SIMON: I LOOKED IT UP ONLINE, DR. GOOGLE.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU.

MR. A. BROWN: WOULD -- WOULD -- DO YOU

UNDERSTAND HOW THE PROCESS OF CONNECTION IS MADE? AFTER ALL, THIS BILL

IS -- IF SOMEONE WANTED TO GET A CONNECTION, WHAT IS THE PROCESS OF

HOW THAT GOES ABOUT FOR $500 OR $1,000?

MS. SIMON: WELL, THE $500 IS AN ESTIMATE ON THE

LOW END OF A NEW CONNECTION. THAT IS ALL IT IS. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO

WITH THE PROCESS OF GETTING CONNECTED. YOU REACH OUT TO YOUR UTILITY

AND ASK WHAT THE PROCESS IS. IF YOU GO TO NATIONAL GRID'S WEBSITE THE

FIRST THING THEY SAY IS, HOLD ON, MAYBE YOU DON'T WANT GAS BECAUSE

RENEWABLE FUELS ARE DOING MUCH BETTER. SO, I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT

THAT IS ALSO A REALITY, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS BILL ADDRESSES.

MR. A. BROWN: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH, THOUGH,

LIKE I ASKED, HOW THAT'S DONE? WHAT HAPPENS, HOW DO THEY CONNECT TO

THE GAS SERVICE? WHAT'S THE PHYSICAL PROCESS? AFTER ALL THIS BILL IS

BASED ON THAT.

MS. SIMON: THE BILL IS NOT BASED ON THAT. THE BILL

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

IS BASED ON WHO PAYS, YOU, PUTTING IN A NEW SYSTEM, OR ME AND ALL OF

US PAYING FOR YOUR COST. I THINK IT'S FAIR AND EQUITABLE IF YOU PAY YOUR

OWN COST.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU.

MR. A. BROWN: IS IT NOT TRUE, IN FACT, THAT WHEN

THEY HAVE TO BREAK THE SPUR, PUT IN A T AND RUN THIS SERVICE, WE'RE

TALKING A MINIMUM OF $7,500 EVEN ON LONG ISLAND WHERE THERE'S A

SAND STRATA AND NO CLAY AND IT COULDN'T BE ANY EASIER?

MS. SIMON: THAT MAY BE, I'M NOT GOING TO DISPUTE

YOU FIGURE, BUT THE REALITY IS YOUR FIGURE IS IRRELEVANT. WHAT IS RELEVANT

IS WHETHER YOU PAY IT OR WE PAY IT.

MR. A. BROWN: SO, LET'S GET INTO THAT. THANK YOU,

MADAM SPONSOR.

SO, THE -- THIS SECTION OF SECTION -- THIS SECTION OF

SECTION 31 OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW DIDN'T CHANGE. IT STILL READS, IF

SECTION 31 GUARANTEES REASONABLE UTILITY ACCESS AND THIS BILL NOW

BLOCKS GAS SERVICE TO -- BECAUSE OF UNAFFORDABLE FEES, ISN'T THIS BILL

INVITING LITIGATION ON CONSTITUTIONAL GROUNDS OF UTILITY DISCRIMINATION OR

SELECTIVE ACCESS?

MS. SIMON: NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. THAT'S

THE ANSWER.

MR. A. BROWN: OKAY. SO HOW CAN THE STATE NOT

CONTINUE TO PROMISE UTILITY ACCESS UNDER PUBLIC SERVICE LAW 31 WHILE

KNOWINGLY IMPLEMENTING POLICIES, LIKE THIS BILL, THAT MAKE SERVICE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

FUNCTIONALLY INACCESSIBLE TO ALL BUT THE WEALTHY?

MS. SIMON: IT DOESN'T MAKE IT FUNCTIONALLY

INACCESSIBLE.

MR. A. BROWN: OKAY. IF -- IF A GROUP CAN'T AFFORD

IT BECAUSE NOW IT GOT TOO EXPENSIVE BECAUSE -- IN OTHER WORDS, IF I

BUILD A HOME AND I BUILD MANY, BEFOREHAND, UNDER A FOOT OR LESS, THE

GAS UTILITY COMPANY WOULD BRING THE SERVICE TO MY -- TO -- TO MY

PROJECT. IF -- IF IT WAS 101 FEET LIKE YOU HAD MENTIONED BEFORE, I WOULD

OWN THAT -- THAT PROPERTY. BUT IF I'M A PERSON WHO SCRIMPED AND SAVED

AND SOMEHOW COULDN'T REBUILD THIS HOUSE, IT WOULD BE CHEAPER TO

REBUILD THIS HOUSE, I'M SAYING TO THEM, YOU KNOW, SORRY. YOU'RE NOT IN

AN AFFLUENT AREA. I WANT YOU TO SPEND AT LEAST TEN OR 15 PERCENT OF THE

COST OF CONSTRUCTION OF YOUR ENTIRE HOME, YOU'RE NOT WEALTHY. WE'RE

PUNISHING PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THE MEANS, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT

THIS BILL DOES.

MS. SIMON: NOT -- IT DOES NOT AT ALL. WHAT IT SAYS IS

WE WILL NO LONGER PAY -- PUNISH THE RATEPAYERS FOR THE COST OF YOU

PUTTING IN SOMETHING WITHIN 100 FEET.

MR. A. BROWN: OKAY. THANK YOU, MADAM

SPONSOR. WAS THERE AN ECONOMIC IMPACT ASSESSMENT SHOWING THAT THIS

WON'T RESULT IN REDUCED HOUSING COSTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE? BECAUSE

AS WE KNOW, OUR ECONOMY IS BASED ON HOUSING STARTS AND THE HOUSING

STARTS IN NEW YORK ARE WAY DOWN. FORGET ABOUT NEW YORK CITY, THAT

SHOW IS OVER. BUT AT LEAST FOR THE REST OF THE STATE, HAVE WE DONE AN

ECONOMIC IMPACT STUDY?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: THE HOUSING COSTS IN NEW YORK STATE

ARE NOT DRIVEN BY WHETHER SOMEONE HAS A NEW CONNECTOR TO GAS. THEY

ARE DRIVEN BY MANY, MANY FACTORS AS I'M SURE YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND,

AS A PERSON IN THAT BUSINESS. SO, THE REALITY IS, YOU CAN'T HANG THAT

WHOLE THING ON THE 100-FOOT RULE, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE COSTS ARE

GOING UP AND THE 100-FOOT RULE EXISTS. SO, JUST FALSE PREMISE.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU FOR THAT. SO, LET ME

ELABORATE ON THAT THOUGHT. YES, THIS IS JUST ONE COMPONENT. WE'RE

ONLY ADDING WHETHER TWO PERCENT OR FIVE PERCENT OF THE COST OR

SOMETIMES TEN PERCENT. BUT WHEN YOU PUT THAT IN -- IN COMBINATION

WITH NOW WALLS HAVE TO BE BUILT AT AN R-20 AND THE ROOF HAS TO BE A

FACTOR OF AN R-50 AND OUR COST CONSTRUCTION NOW GOES UP 50 PERCENT

THAN IT WAS THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO, IT'S ANOTHER FACTOR WHY PEOPLE

AREN'T BUILDING. IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN I BUY A PIECE OF PROPERTY, ISN'T IT

TRUE THAT NOW MY COSTS ARE SO MUCH MORE THAN THEY WERE SEVERAL YEARS

AGO BECAUSE OF BILLS LIKE THIS?

MS. SIMON: NO.

MR. A. BROWN: CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT -- THAT

STATEMENT, PLEASE?

MS. SIMON: YOU JUST EXPLAINED IT YOURSELF. YOUR

COSTS ARE GOING UP AND THIS BILL ISN'T IN EXISTENCE. YOUR COSTS ARE GOING

UP FOR A VARITY OF REASONS AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT YOU CAN CONVINCE ME

THAT PAYING THE COST OF A NEW CONNECTION, JUST A NEW CONNECTION TO GAS,

IS GOING TO INCREASE THE COST OF BUILDING A HOUSE BY 50 PERCENT. THAT IS

SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. A. BROWN: OKAY. SO --

MS. SIMON: IN NOBODY'S WORLD.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU.

MR. A. BROWN: SO, AGAIN, IF MY COSTS WERE A

HALF-A-MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD A HOUSE, OR $100,000 TO BUILD A HOUSE

AND NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER $15,000 THAT I DIDN'T BEFORE,

WOULDN'T THAT COST ME MORE MONEY?

MS. SIMON: WELL, THE QUICK -- THE QUICK ANSWER IS,

NUMBER ONE, YOU'RE JUST MAKING UP THAT $15,000 FOR A $100,000 HOME.

NOBODY'S BUILDING A $100,000 HOME THESE DAYS, ANYWAY, NUMBER ONE.

AND NUMBER TWO, YOU DON'T HAVE -- HAVE TO CHOOSE GAS. YOU CAN

CHOOSE ELECTRICITY, WHICH IN FACT IS EASIER AND CHEAPER TO INSTALL AND

MUCH MORE COST-EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR. AS

A MATTER OF FACT, ISN'T IT TRUE THAT I CAN BUY A VERY NICE MODULAR HOME

FOR 1,200 -- 1,200 SQUARE FEET, WHICH I RECENTLY DID, A PLACE UPSTATE FOR

UNDER $100,000 AND IF GAS WAS ACCESSIBLE AND IT WAS UNDER 100 FEET, IT

WOULD COST ME BETWEEN 7,500 AND $12,000? ISN'T THAT A REAL NUMBER

FROM A GUY WHOSE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS FOR 50 YEARS?

MS. SIMON: IT -- IT MIGHT BE A REAL NUMBER IN THAT

PARTICULAR INSTANCE, BUT THE REALITY, THE QUESTION HERE, THE ONLY QUESTION

BEFORE US HERE, IS SHOULD YOU PAY FOR THAT CONNECTION OR SHOULD YOUR

NEIGHBORS? SO, YOU'RE JUST BASICALLY -- YOUR CONSTITUENTS ARE PAYING FOR

EVERYBODY ELSE ALREADY. THAT'S A FACT AND THAT'S -- THAT IS IN FACT THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

CURRENT LAW. SO, THIS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO HELP YOUR CONSTITUENTS.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

LET'S GET INTO EXISTING HOMES. SO, SECTION 3 OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE

LAW, SUBJECT TO THE REQUIREMENT OF SUBDIVISIONS 4 AND 5 IN THIS SECTION,

WHENEVER A RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER MOVES TO A NEW RESIDENCE WITHIN THE

SERVICE TERRITORY OF THE SAME UTILITY CORPORATION OR MUNICIPALITY, HE

SHALL BE ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE SERVICE AT THE NEW RESIDENCE AND SUCH

SERVICE SHALL BE CONSIDERED A CONTINUATION OF SERVICE IN ALL RESPECTS,

WITH ANY DEFERRED PAYMENT AGREEMENT HONORED, AND WITH ALL RIGHTS OF

SUCH CUSTOMER AND SUCH UTILITY CORPORATION PROVIDED BY THIS ARTICLE

UNIMPAIRED. IN OTHER WORDS, I MOVE DOWN THE BLOCK, GUESS WHAT,

YOU'RE PUTTING IN THAT SERVICE FOR UNDER 100 FEET AND IT'S NOT GOING TO

COST ME ANYTHING. THAT SECTION WASN'T CHANGED IN THIS BILL AMENDMENT.

MS. SIMON: NO, BECAUSE IT'S NOT RELEVANT TO THIS

BILL. THE REALITY IS, IF YOU ARE MOVING TO A NEW BUILDING AND THERE'S

ALREADY A GAS CONNECTOR, YOU GET GAS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY ANY OF

THAT.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU.

MR. A. BROWN: THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS -- THAT'S NOT

WHAT THE -- THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW SAYS. IT ACTUALLY SAYS THAT YOU WILL

PROVIDE ME THE SAME SERVICE I HAD BEFORE, UNLESS THERE'S A FURTHER

AMENDMENT, MEANS YOU'RE RUNNING THAT LINE AND IT'S NOT COSTING ME

ANYTHING. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS.

MS. SIMON: IT'S JUST THE SERVICE THAT WE'RE -- THAT --

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THAT -- THAT THAT SECTION REFERS TO. SO, THE REALITY IS, IT'S JUST A SERVICE.

THIS DOESN'T AFFECT THE SERVICE, IT AFFECTS THE CONNECTOR -- NEW

CONNECTOR TO THE GAS LINE. THAT IS IT, SIR.

MR. A. BROWN: I -- I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE AND I

GUESS WE'LL SEE THAT IN THE CHAPTER AMENDMENT. SO --

MS. SIMON: I DON'T THINK SO.

MR. A. BROWN: ON ANOTHER SECTION. ISN'T THERE A

CONFLICT, IT SAYS A UTILITY CORPORATION OR MUNICIPALITY SHALL INSTITUTE

SERVICE TO ANY APPLICANT WHO MEETS THE REQUIREMENT OF SUBDIVISION ONE

OF THIS SECTION, WITHIN FIVE BUSINESS DAYS AFTER SUCH APPLICANT APPLIES

FOR SERVICE. IT GOES ON, THE UTILITY CORPORATION, MUNICIPALITY SHALL

INSTITUTE SERVICE TO ANY APPLICANT WHO MEETS THE REQUIREMENT OF SUBS --

OF -- OF SUBDIVISION 1 OF THIS SECTION WITHIN FIVE BUSINESS DAYS AFTER

SUCH APPLICANT APPLIES FOR SERVICE. IT GOES ON, THE UTILITY CORPORATION OR

MUNICIPALITY SHALL INITIATE SERVICE PROMPTLY TO APPLICANTS AND -- AND --

AND ANY SUCH CORPORATION, MUNICIPALITY WHICH FAILS TO PROVIDE TIMELY

SERVICE TO AN APPLICANT AS REQUIRED BY THE SUBDIVISION WITH GOOD CAUSE

AND DETERMINE IT'S EVEN PENALTY PER DAY. THIS SECTION HAS -- HAS

SOMETHING TO DO WITH CONTINUED UTILITY SERVICE, BUT IT ALSO HAS TO DO

WITH IF YOU HAD SERVICE, THEY'RE GOING TO RUN THAT NEW LINE FOR YOU AS

WELL, UNENCUMBERED WITHOUT EXPENSE. IT'S -- I'M LOOKING AT THE

SECTION, YOU HAVE YOUR ASSISTANTS RIGHT THERE. THEY'LL TELL YOU THE SAME

THING.

MS. SIMON: WELL, IF IT'S A NEW LINE AND IT'S 101 FEET

AWAY FROM THE GAS LINE, YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT ANYWAY AND ALL WE'RE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SAYING IS IF YOU'RE 99 FEET, NOW YOU PAY. THAT'S ALL.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

WITH RESPECT, THE -- THE SECTION DOESN'T SAY THAT, BUT I GUESS WE'LL SEE

THAT IN THE CHAPTER AMENDMENT.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. A. BROWN: I'M BIG BELIEVER IN REDUNDANCY.

WHEN I INSTALLED MY OWN BOILER PIECE BY PIECE, I MADE SURE THEY WERE

REDUNDANT SYSTEMS. INSTEAD OF JUST HAVING ONE ZONE VALVE TO HANDLE

FIVE ZONES, I RAN CIRCULATORS FOR EACH AND EVERY ZONE IN CASE SOMETHING

WENT DOWN. AS WE ALL REMEMBER, DURING HURRICANE SANDY, WHO WERE

THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT HAD HOT WATER? IT WAS THOSE OF US THAT HAD A GAS

HOT WATER HEATER WHICH REQUIRES NO ELECTRICITY. AS A MATTER OF FACT, IF

YOU HAD A STEAM BOILER, WHICH WORKS OFF OF MILLIVOLTS, YOU DIDN'T NEED

ELECTRICITY, ALSO. I'M A MAJOR FAN OF ELECTRIC HEAT PUMPS, BUT THE

PROBLEM IS UNDER ZERO DEGREES THEY'RE NOT NOT ONLY EFFICIENT, MANY

TIMES THEY'LL ACTUALLY FREEZE UP AND NOT WORK. WE SAW THIS HAPPEN IN

TEXAS WHERE THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD RELY ON SOLAR AND -- AND POWER

LIKE THAT AND THEY HAD A DISASTER A FEW YEARS BACK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU, MR.

BROWN.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR [SIC].

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. DURSO.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. SIMON: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MS. SIMON. SO, JUST TO

CONTINUE WITH THIS DEBATE, IS THIS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION ONLY, OR IS THIS

FOR CURRENT RESIDENTIAL HOMES?

MS. SIMON: WELL, IT IS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION IF IT'S

STARTED BEFORE DECEMBER 31ST, AFTER WHICH IT WOULD NEED TO BE ELECTRIC

ANYWAY. AND IT IS FOR EXISTING HOMES IF YOU ARE CONVERTING LET'S SAY,

FROM PROPANE OR OIL, RIGHT? SO, IT'S A NEW GAS CONNECTOR. IF IT'S NOT A

NEW GAS CONNECTION, IRRELEVANT. ENTIRELY --

MR. DURSO: RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU ALREADY HAVE GAS

AT THAT POINT. SO, WHY WOULD YOU NEED IT?

MS. SIMON: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. MOST BUILDINGS

THAT HAVE GAS, ALREADY HAVE GAS.

MR. DURSO: BUT THIS IS NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE,

CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: NO, IT IS NOT.

MR. DURSO: AND MIXED-USE? I KNOW IT WAS ASKED

BEFORE, BUT I APOLOGIZE, I DIDN'T HEAR THE ANSWER.

MS. SIMON: MIXED-USE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DUKE

THAT OUT WITH THE -- THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMISSION, THE UTILITY AND THE

LOCALITY. I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHAT KIND OF CONNECTIONS YOU'RE PUTTING

IN. SO, IF YOU'RE PUTTING IN A CONNECTION TO THE BUSINESS USES, RIGHT, OR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THAT SECTION OF THE BUILDING THAT'S COMMERCIAL, THAT IS CURRENTLY --

WOULD BE A COST BORNE BY WHOEVER IS DOING THAT. IF IT'S WITHIN 100 FEET,

THE PSC HAS ALREADY DETERMINED THAT IT'S GOING TO BE BORNE BY THE OTHER

CUSTOMERS. BUT THE REALITY, OF COURSE, IS THAT COMMERCIAL RATES ARE FAR

CHEAPER THAN RESIDENTIAL RATES AS YOU KNOW. IF IT'S FOR THE RESIDENTIAL

PORTION AND IT'S A NEW CONNECTION, THEN THE BUILDER WOULD PAY FOR IT,

PRESUPPOSING IT'S WITHIN 100 FEET. IF IT'S FARTHER THAN 100 FEET FROM THE

GAS LINE, THE -- WHOEVER'S BUILDING THAT BUILDING WOULD PAY FOR IT.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO, WITH -- WITH THAT BEING

SAID, THE APARTMENT BUILDINGS THEMSELVES, ARE THEY ALL CONSIDERED

RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL?

MS. SIMON: I THINK I JUST ANSWERED THE QUESTION. IF

THERE'S A -- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING A NEW BUILDING --

MR. DURSO: NO, NO, NO. I'M SORRY. FOR -- FOR -- FOR

AN EXISTING BUILDING --

MS. SIMON: OKAY.

MR. DURSO: -- THAT IS CURRENTLY, RIGHT NOW, AS AN

APARTMENT BUILDING OF LET'S SAY FIVE OR MORE UNITS, RIGHT, AND THEY WANT

TO HOOK UP TO GAS. ARE THOSE -- BECAUSE NOW SOME BUILDINGS THAT HAVE

THAT ARE CONSIDERED COMMERCIAL, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: IT'S -- THIS IS ABOUT RESIDENTS -- NEW

RESIDENTIAL HOOKUPS ONLY.

MR. DURSO: NO, I UNDER -- SO, THIS IS STRICTLY FOR

RESIDENTIAL. SO, IF YOU'RE A COMMERCIAL BUILDING, BUT YOU HAVE TEN

APARTMENT UNITS IN IT, THIS DOESN'T CONCERN YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: IF YOU'RE A -- NO. THAT'S A MIXED-USE

BUILDING.

MR. DURSO: CORRECT. SO, WHO'S PAYING THAT --

WHO'S PAYING --

MS. SIMON: SO, I JUST ANSWERED THAT QUESTION.

MR. DURSO: WELL, BUT I'M SAYING, BUT WHO'S --

WHO'S PAYING FOR THAT HOOKUP?

MS. SIMON: THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION OF THAT

BUILDING, IF YOU HAVE A MIXED-USE BUILDING, IT'S THE SAME ANSWER. THE

-- THE COMMERCIAL PART WOULD BE PAID FOR BY THE --

MR. DURSO: THE UTILITY.

MS. SIMON: -- IT'S CONNECTED TO WHEREVER IT'S

CONNECTED PURSUANT TO THE PSC REGULATIONS, RIGHT? THEIR RULE. IF IT'S --

IF IT'S RESIDENTIAL, RIGHT NOW AND ONLY IF IT'S WITHIN 100 FEET OF THE GAS

LINE, RIGHT, THEN THE RATEPAYERS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD PAY FOR IT

AND THE BUILDER WHO PUTS IN THAT NEW BUILDING AND IS GOING TO BE

COLLECTING RENTS FROM THAT 500 UNITS, IS GOING TO ACTUALLY BE MAKING A

BUNDLE, BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE IS PAYING FOR THAT CONNECTION.

MR. DURSO: WELL, THAT WAS MY QUESTION. SO, IF

YOU HAVE A RESIDENTIAL STANDALONE HOME, RIGHT --

MS. SIMON: YES.

MR. DURSO: -- AND YOU -- AND YOU HAVE GAS WITHIN

100 FEET, YOU HAVE TO NOW PAY FOR IT ON YOUR OWN, CORRECT? WHICH IS --

MS. SIMON: IF YOU ARE PUTTING IN A NEW CONNECTION

ONLY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. DURSO: YES. YES, IF YOU'RE PUTTING IN A NEW

CONNECTION. BUT IF I HAVE A COMMERCIAL BUILDING THAT HAS TENANTS IN IT,

APARTMENT BUILDING, WHO --

MS. SIMON: IT'S MIXED-USE.

MR. DURSO: YES, A MIXED-USE --

MS. SIMON: RIGHT.

MR. DURSO: -- IS THE BUILDING NOW RESPONSIBLE FOR

PAYING FOR THAT 100 FOOT CONNECTION?

MS. SIMON: ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE OWNER OF THE

BUILDING, THE LANDLORD IS A RUNNING A COMMERCIAL OPERATION WITH

RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS?

MR. DURSO: YES.

MS. SIMON: AND THAT HAS SOMEHOW DIFFERENT THAN A

MIXED-USE BUILDING? I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S THE CASE, RIGHT? THIS IS

ABOUT NEW RESIDENTIAL CONNECTIONS. IF IT IS A -- AN APARTMENT BUILDING

BEING PUT IN AND SOMEBODY WHO'S A DEVELOPER, OR A BUILDER, IS PUTTING

IN THAT BUILDING, THEY WOULD BEAR THAT COST FOR THE RESIDENTIAL

CONNECTION IF IT'S WITHIN 100 FEET.

MR. DURSO: MA'AM, BUT YOU KEEP SAYING NEW

BUILDINGS. I'M SAYING EXISTING BUILDINGS.

MS. SIMON: IF IT'S AN EXISTING BUILDING, AND IT'S

ALREADY CONNECTED TO GAS --

MR. DURSO: NO, IT'S NOT CONNECTED TO GAS. IF YOU

HAVE --

MS. SIMON: OKAY. SO, WHAT'S IT CONNECTED TO IN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

YOUR EXAMPLE?

MR. DURSO: OIL.

MS. SIMON: OIL. YOU'RE GOING TO PUT IN A BIG

APARTMENT BUILDING, YOU HAVE A 500 UNIT --

MR. DURSO: NO, NO, NO. I'M NOT SAYING PUT IT IN A

BUILDING -- APARTMENT BUILDING. I'M SAYING ONE ALREADY EXISTS. IT HAS

CURRENTLY BEING HEATED BY OIL. THEY HAVE GAS LINES WITHIN 100 FEET.

ARE THEY ALLOWED TO GET THAT HOOKUP TO THAT COMMERCIAL BUILDING THAT

HAS 30 UNITS IN IT?

MS. SIMON: THEY'RE ALLOWED TO GET TO THE

CONNECTION, NOBODY'S STOPPING THEM FROM CONNECTING.

MR. DURSO: CORRECT. NOW, WILL -- WILL THE UTILITY

PAY FOR THAT?

MS. SIMON: THE UTILITY DOESN'T PAY FOR ANYTHING.

YOU PAY FOR IT.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. BUT, YOU --

MS. SIMON: THE REALITY IS, WHETHER YOU'RE PAYING

FOR THE CONNECTION, OR YOUR NEIGHBORS ARE PAYING FOR THE CONNECTION --

MR. DURSO: WELL, HOW WOULD THAT WORK FOR THAT

BUILDING THEN?

MS. SIMON: THE UTILITY ISN'T PAYING FOR ANYTHING.

MR. DURSO: HOW WOULD -- SO, ARE WE ALL PAYING

FOR THAT COMMERCIAL BUILDING THAT HAS 30 UNITS IN IT?

MS. SIMON: YES.

MR. DURSO: SO, WHY ARE THEY ALLOWED TO DO IT, BUT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

A RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER CANNOT?

MS. SIMON: WELL, WE ARE CHANGING THE LAW. THE

LAW --

MR. DURSO: RIGHT, SO WHY WOULDN'T WE ADD THAT

IN?

MS. SIMON: WELL, THE LAW APPLIES TO RESIDENTIAL

HOOKUPS. THE PSC REGULATION APPLIES TO COMMERCIAL. THE LAW IS

SILENT ON THE COMMERCIAL.

MR. DURSO: OKAY.

MS. SIMON: THAT IS WHY.

MR. DURSO: SO -- SO, AGAIN, THE MIXED-USE

BUILDINGS AND THEIR COMMERCIAL BUILDING THAT HAS 30 OR SO UNITS IN IT, IF

THEY WANT TO HOOK UP TO GAS, WE'RE ALL GOING TO PAY FOR IT. THAT'S OKAY,

BUT A RESIDENTIAL PERSON -- A PERSON THAT HAS A RESIDENTIAL HOME, HAS TO

PAY FOR IT ON THEIR OWN.

MS. SIMON: WELL, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS

OKAY. I JUST SAID THAT'S WHAT CURRENTLY IS THE PSC REGULATION.

MR. DURSO: WELL, WHY DIDN'T WE PUT THAT IN THE

BILL?

MS. SIMON: I WOULD SUGGEST YOU REACH OUT TO THE

PSC AND ASK THEM TO UNDO THAT REGULATION.

MR. DURSO: I -- WELL, I -- I WOULDN'T HAVE DID THIS

BILL, SO I'M JUST WONDERING WHY --

MS. SIMON: THIS BILL? THIS BILL IS AN AMENDMENT

TO THE LAW, NOT THE PSC'S REGULATION, WHICH WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THEIR REGULATIONS.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO -- SO, LET'S GO WITH THIS LAW

THEN SINCE IT SEEMS THAT THE COMMERCIAL USE ARE -- ARE GETTING A BREAK.

MS. SIMON: THEY HAVEN'T. THEY ALWAYS DO

ANYWAY, THEY PAY CHEAPER RATES.

MR. DURSO: WELL, GOOD THING WE'RE NOT CHANGING IT

NOW THEN. SO, WITH THAT BEING SAID, MA'AM, THE -- THE HOOKUP THAT GOES

FROM THE -- THE STREET IF IT'S WITHIN 100 FEET TO THE HOUSE, YOU WERE

SAYING NOW IT'S GOING TO BE ON THE RESIDENTS, RIGHT? THE -- THE PERSON

THAT WANTS TO GET THAT HOOKUP, THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT SOLELY ON THEIR

OWN, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER WHO WANTS A

NEW CONNECTION, YES.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. IF YOU ARE GOING FROM GAS TO

ELECTRIC, RIGHT, LET'S JUST SAY YOU'RE GONNA -- YOU'RE GONNA POWER YOUR

WHOLE HOME BY ELECTRIC AT THAT POINT. WHO'S PAYING FOR THAT? LET'S SAY

THEY WANTED TO DO THE OPPOSITE.

MS. SIMON: CURRENTLY, UNTIL WE PASS THE -- THE REST

-- THE NEW YORK HEAT ACT, CURRENTLY, WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT YOU ARE

PAYING TO CONVERT, RIGHT? AND IF YOU'RE PAYING TO CONVERT, YOU'RE

PAYING TO CONVERT.

MR. DURSO: SO, YOU HAVE TO -- SO, IF I'M THE -- IF

I'M THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER AND I WANT TO GET RID OF GAS AND I WANT TO

CONVERT TO ALL ELECTRIC, I PAY FOR THAT ON MY OWN, RIGHT? THE UTILITY

DOESN'T?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: YES. AND IF YOU'RE SMART, YOU TALK TO

NYSERDA AND GET A TAX CREDIT.

MR. DURSO: OH, PERFECT. OKAY. SO, ON TOP OF THAT,

IF I'M HOOKING UP TO GAS, LET'S SAY I'M THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER AND I

FIND OUT THAT GAS IS IN THE STREET, RIGHT, WITHIN 100 FEET AND I CAN THEN

PAY FOR THAT ON MY OWN, CORRECT? AM I ALLOWED TO HIRE A PRIVATE

CONTRACTOR TO DO THAT?

MS. SIMON: THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO YOU

HIRE TO DO --

MR. DURSO: I'M JUST ASKING IF THERE'S LANGUAGE IN

THE BILL IF YOU CAN HIRE A PRIVATE CONTRACTOR.

MS. SIMON: THERE'S NO LANGUAGE IN THE BILL THAT

SAYS YAY OR NAY ON HIRING A PRIVATE CONTRACTOR --

MR. DURSO: SO, WHO MAKES THAT DECISION?

MS. SIMON: MOST PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO HIRE

CONTRACTORS TO BUILD BUILDINGS OR (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK).

MR. DURSO: SO, AGAIN, SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS

THAT THERE'S NO LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL, CURRENTLY, WHICH NOW STOPS THE

UTILITY COMPANY FROM TAKING THAT BURDEN ON AND HOOKING IT UP, RIGHT, TO

NOW, IF I'M THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER AND I SAY, I WANT GAS. I CAN GO

OUT, GET A PERMIT RIGHT THROUGH THE TOWN, OR VILLAGE, OR CITY, OR

WHEREVER YOU LIVE AND I COULD REALLY HAVE ANYBODY I WANT DO THAT

WORK, CORRECT?

(CONFERENCING)

MS. SIMON: SO, THAT IS, IN FACT, IRRELEVANT TO THIS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

LAW -- THIS BILL.

MR. DURSO: BUT IT'S NOT, THOUGH. BECAUSE --

MS. SIMON: IT IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS BILL. THE BILL

SAYS, WHO PAYS IF YOU'RE WITH -- IF THE -- THE PERSON PUTTING IN THAT

BRAND NEW CONNECTION, RESIDENTIAL USE, BRAND NEW CONNECTION IS WITHIN

100 FEET, THAT PERSON PUTTING IN THE CONNECTION PAYS. IF IT'S MORE THAN

100 FEET -- 100 FEET, THAT PERSON THAT PAYS ALREADY, ANYWAYS. SO, ALL

WE'RE DOING IS CHANGING WITHIN 100 FEET --

MR. DURSO: UNDERSTOOD.

MS. SIMON: SO ALL OF THIS OTHER STUFF IS -- IS IN THE

CATEGORY OF NICE TO KNOW, BUT IRRELEVANT TO THIS BILL.

MR. DURSO: WELL, I WOULD HAPPEN TO DISAGREE

BECAUSE CURRENTLY, THE WAY IT'S CURRENTLY CONSTITUTED, IF WANT TO GET A

GAS UP HOOKUP, THE UTILITY HAS TO DO IT, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: THE UTILITY DOES THAT. I DON'T KNOW

WHY YOU WOULD WANT TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO THEIR OWN HOOKUPS TO

THE UTILITY SYSTEM. I THINK THAT WOULD BE IMPROPER, BUT IT HAS NOTHING

TO DO WITH THIS LAW.

MR. DURSO: WELL, IT DOES HAVE TO DO WITH THIS LAW

BECAUSE --

MS. SIMON: NO, IT DOESN'T. IT DOESN'T.

MR. DURSO: WELL, MA'AM, UNFORTUNATELY IT DOES

BECAUSE CURRENTLY, THE UTILITY IS THE ONE THAT IS DOING THE WORK AND

THOSE WORKERS THAT WORK FOR THOSE UTILITY COMPANIES AND ESPECIALLY IN

MY AREA, ARE UNIONIZED LABOR.

100

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: OKAY.

MR. DURSO: YOU ARE LITERALLY TAKING AWAY THEIR

JOBS BY PUTTING THIS BILL IN, BY NOT ADDRESSING THE FACT THAT IT IS TAKING

UNION JOBS AWAY AND IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT, THAT'S FINE. BUT, WHAT

YOU ARE -- YOU'RE -- WHAT YOU'RE FAILING TO UNDERSTAND IS, YOU WANT TO

SAY THAT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS BILL, IT 100 PERCENT DOES.

MS. SIMON: NO, IT DOES NOT. IT DOES NOT.

MR. DURSO: EVERYBODY THAT -- EVERYBODY THAT DOES

THIS WORK, A SPECIAL AMOUNT, IS UNIONIZED LABOR. WHAT YOU'RE NOW

SAYING IS IT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU COULD HIRE YOUR OWN CONTRACTOR, I DON'T

CARE.

MS. SIMON: NO, I SAID THE BILL IS SILENT ON THAT.

THAT'S WHAT I SAID.

MR. DURSO: WHO -- WHOSE BILL IS IT?

MS. SIMON: THE BILL, RIGHT HERE (INDICATING) 4A,

YOU JUST HAVE TO READ IT, IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THAT.

MR. DURSO: WHOSE BILL IS IT, MA'AM?

MS. SIMON: SIR, WHOEVER PUTS IN THAT -- THAT

CONNECTION, IF IT'S DONE BY UNION LABOR, UNDER THE WORK WITH THE UTILITY,

THAT WOULD REMAIN. THIS CHANGES THAT NOT AT ALL. IT ONLY CHANGES WHO

PAYS FOR THE CONNECTION. YOU OR YOUR NEIGHBOR.

MR. DURSO: BUT, THAT IS -- BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE --

MS. SIMON: IT IS.

MR. DURSO: WELL, UNDER THE CURRENT LAW, RIGHT, AND

UNDER THE CURRENT WAY THAT IT WORKS, IF I WANT A GAS CONNECTION, THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

UTILITY DOES IT. THE UTILITY, WORK GETS DONE BY UNION LABOR. NOW WHAT

YOU'RE SAYING IS, I CAN GO OUT AND HIRE A PRIVATE CONTRACTOR.

MS. SIMON: I'M NOT SAYING THAT, YOU SAID THAT.

MR. DURSO: WELL, YOU'RE NOT NOT SAYING IT BECAUSE

IT'S YOUR BILL AND YOU DIDN'T PUT IT IN THERE TO PROTECT WORKERS.

MS. SIMON: NO, I THINK -- I THINK THAT IS JUST SO FAR

AFIELD AS TO BE RIDICULOUS. THE REALITY IS, SIR, YOU CAN -- I AM NOT

REWRITING THE ENTIRE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW.

MR. DURSO: NO.

MS. SIMON: I AM NOT REWRITING EVERYTHING.

WHATEVER IS ALREADY IN EXISTENCE REMAINS IN EXISTENCE. THE ONLY THING

THAT CHANGES IS, YOU PUT IN A NEW CONNECTION WITHIN 100 FEET IN A

RESIDENTIAL BUILDING, YOU PAY FOR IT.

MR. DURSO: WELL, MA'AM --

MS. SIMON: THAT'S IT, THAT'S ALL IT CHANGES. IT DOESN'T

CHANGE ANYTHING ELSE.

MR. DURSO: I UNDERSTAND -- I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT

AS MY -- AS ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES ASKED YOU BEFORE, ARE CONSIDERED

ABOUT THE IMPACT IT WILL HAVE?

MS. SIMON: OF COURSE I'M CONCERNED BUT IT DOESN'T

AFFECT THEM.

MR. DURSO: NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOU'RE

SAYING THAT BUT IT SEEMS THAT THE NEW YORK STATE LABORERS ARE

CONCERNED BECAUSE THEY PUT IN AN OPPOSITION AND ALL THOSE -- ALSO THE

NEW YORK STATE CONFERENCE OF UNION OPERATING ENGINEERS. SO,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THEY'RE CONCERNED, BUT YOU'RE NOT AND THAT CONCERNS ME.

MS. SIMON: NO, THAT IS NOT TRUE. DON'T PUT WORDS

INTO MY MOUTH.

MR. DURSO: NO, NO, NO. I'M --

MS. SIMON: DO NOT PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.

MR. DURSO: I'M NOT PUTTING --

MS. SIMON: DO NOT PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: COLLEAGUES,

COLLEAGUES.

MS. SIMON: I'M RECLAIMING MY TIME. RECLAIMING

MY TIME.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WE WILL ASK

QUESTIONS, PAUSE AND WAIT FOR AN ANSWER, PLEASE.

MR. DURSO: MS. SIMON, I APOLOGIZE AND I WASN'T

TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH. SO, I DO APOLOGIZE. BUT, WHAT I

WILL SAY, IS THE WORDS ARE NOT IN THE BILL PROTECTING UNION LABOR AND

THAT'S MY BIGGEST CONCERN.

MS. SIMON: THIS BILL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO

DOES THE JOBS --

MR. DURSO: I KNOW THAT.

MS. SIMON: -- AND THOSE JOBS EXIST TO MAINTAIN THE

CURRENT SYSTEM. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LOSE JOBS BECAUSE SOMEBODY

ELSE PAYS FOR IT INSTEAD OF THE RATEPAYERS. THAT IS SIMPLY REALITY. I

UNDERSTAND THEY SEEM TO BE CONCERNED, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS BECAUSE THEY

MISUNDERSTAND THE BILL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. DURSO: SO, THE -- THE LOCAL LABOR UNIONS, THE

LABORERS AND THE OPERATING ENGINEERS DON'T UNDERSTAND THE BILL?

MS. SIMON: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MS. SIMON. I APPRECIATE

YOUR TIME AND ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THE -- ME

BEING INCONSIDERATE AND PUTTING WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH. I DO APOLOGIZE

THAT THAT'S THE WAY IT CAME OFF.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE THAT.

MR. DURSO: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. DURSO: SO, MY BIGGEST CONCERN WITH THIS AND I

-- AND I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS,

MY CONCERN IS YOU'RE RIGHT, I -- AND -- AND AS SHE SAID, MAYBE I PUT

WORDS IN HER MOUTH, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THE WORDS AREN'T ON THE

PAPER AND AS OF RIGHT NOW, THIS WORK GOES THROUGH AS UNION LABOR AND

WHAT THIS DOES IS NEGATE THAT AND PUTS WORKERS, THEIR FAMILIES AND THE

JOBS THAT THEY DO, WHETHER IT'S ON LONG ISLAND OR THROUGHOUT NEW YORK

STATE, IN JEOPARDY. I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS BILL.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. BOLOGNA.

MR. BOLOGNA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

104

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: I WILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. BOLOGNA: THANK YOU. I HAVE THE -- THE

PREMISE OF A LOT OF WHAT I'M ASKING IS GOING TO BE -- HAS BEEN COVERED,

BUT I'M GOING IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. SO, I APOLOGIZE IF THE -- SOME OF

THE INITIAL QUESTIONS ARE A LITTLE REDUNDANT.

SO, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THE GOVERNOR'S ASSESSMENT

THAT WE ARE BOTH IN A HOUSING AND AFFORDABILITY CRISIS? WOULD YOU

AGREE WITH THAT ASSESSMENT BY THE GOVERNOR?

MS. SIMON: A, I AGREE WITH IT, BUT IT'S IRRELEVANT TO

THIS BILL.

MR. BOLOGNA: WELL, WE'LL -- WE'LL GET TO THAT.

MS. SIMON: WE'RE DEBATING THIS BILL, NOT THE

GOVERNOR'S MESSAGING.

MR. BOLOGNA: OKAY, WELL, WE'LL GET THERE. SO,

LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME -- SOME OF THE -- THE WAYS AND SOME OF THE TYPE OF

RESIDENTIAL HOUSING THAT THIS IMPACTS. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT NEW BUILDS

THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF 100 FEET. IN MANY RURAL AREAS AND -- AND ESPECIALLY

WHERE I REPRESENT, WEST NEW YORK, ARE -- THERE ARE ACTUALLY LOCAL

ZONING RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE BEYOND THAT. SO YOU HAVE TO BUILD WITH AT

LEAST 150 FEET OF FRONTAGE, 200 FEET OF FRONTAGE AND SO, IN THOSE

SITUATIONS, I'M ASSUMING THAT THERE'S NO EXCEPTION, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: THIS -- THIS BILL ADDRESSES ONLY THE

LENGTH OF THE -- HOW FAR AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY THE GAS MAIN IS. IT HAS

NOTHING TO DO WITH FRONTAGE, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

YOU HAVE EXTENSIVE -- IF YOU HAVE BIG -- YOU HAVE A TWO ACRE ZONING

RIGHT AND YOU'RE PUTTING IN SOMETHING -- A GAS LINE, NEW GAS LINE AND IT

IS OUTSIDE OF 100 FEET, YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT NOW. IT DOESN'T CHANGE THAT

AT ALL.

MR. BOLOGNA: AND --AND AGAIN, WHY -- JUST REAL

QUICK, WHY ARE WE DOING THAT AGAIN IN THIS BILL?

MS. SIMON: WHY ARE WE DOING WHAT?

MR. BOLOGNA: WHY -- WHY ARE WE -- WHY ARE WE

CHANGING -- CHANGING THE LANGUAGE OF THE CURRENT LAW?

MS. SIMON: WE'RE CHANGING THE LANGUAGE OF THE

CURRENT LAW BECAUSE IT IS UNFAIR FOR YOU AND I TO BE PAYING FOR THE

HOOKUPS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE -- NEWLY CONNECTING TO -- TO THE GAS

SYSTEM. IT WAS SOME ONCE UPON A TIME, FOR OTHER PUBLIC POLICY REASONS

WHICH NO LONGER ARE THOSE REASONS.

MR. BOLOGNA: GOT IT. AND -- AND AGAIN -- AND

THROUGHOUT THE DEBATE YOU'VE SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT NEEDS TO BE FAIR

AND EQUITABLE, THAT YOUR NEIGHBOR SHOULD PAY IT FOR YOURSELF. THE GUY

NEXT DOOR IS DOING A JOB, WHY SHOULD WE PAY FOR IT? SO, WHEN IT -- I

APPRECIATE YOUR -- YOUR POSITION ON SELF-RELIANCE --

MS. SIMON: I'M SAVING YOU MONEY.

MR. BOLOGNA: I THINK THAT'S GREAT. SO, NOW DOES

THE SAME APPLY TO THINGS LIKE HEALTHCARE, COLLEGE TUITION, SOLAR

SUBSIDIES, EV SUBSIDES, WIND SUBSIDES, FARM SUBSIDES, THE MIGRANT

CRISIS? CAN WE GO TO -- CAN WE GO TO SELF-RELIANCE ON ALL THOSE THINGS

NOW, TOO?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: YOU KNOW, I AM PASSING THIS BILL,

WHICH IS A SHORT -- IT'S REALLY ONLY SIX LINES, SEVEN LINES IN THE TEXT, HAS

NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THOSE THINGS. DO I THINK WE SHOULD BE MORE

EQUITABLE IN MANY WAYS IN OUR SOCIETY? ABSOLUTELY. BUT, THAT HAS [SIC]

COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY IRRELEVANT TO THIS LAW.

MR. BOLOGNA: OKAY. SO, LET'S GO BACK TO -- TO

REGIONALITY HERE IN TERMS OF, LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A LOT

OF THESE BILLS, I'LL KIND OF GET A MENTAL PICTURE IN MY HEAD AND I'LL START

DRIVING DOWN STREETS IN MY DISTRICT AND -- AND LOOKING AROUND. AND

ESPECIALLY IN A RURAL NIAGARA COUNTY, WHICH I REPRESENT, THERE IS [SIC]

HOUSES WITH PROPANE TANKS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

MS. SIMON: MM-HMM.

MR. BOLOGNA: AND -- AND AGAIN, BROOKLYN, RIGHT,

IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN? DO YOU -- DO YOU GUYS HAVE A LOT OF, LIKE, HOUSE

-- STANDALONE HOUSES WITH PROPANE TANKS IN, LIKE, THE MIDDLE OF A

MASSIVE CORNFIELD? IS THAT A --

MS. SIMON: NO, WE DON'T BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE

ANY CORNFIELDS.

MR. BOLOGNA: OKAY.

MS. SIMON: AND MOST PEOPLE WHO HAD PROPANE

ONCE UPON A TIME PROBABLY CONVERTED A WHILE AGO. WE USED TO HAVE --

AS LATE AT THE 90S, THERE WERE FIVE SCHOOLS --

MR. BOLOGNA: OKAY.

MS. SIMON: -- IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS IN

BROOKLYN THAT WAS STILL HEATED BY COAL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. BOLOGNA: OKAY.

MS. SIMON: SO, THEY NO LONGER ARE BECAUSE COAL IS,

IN FACT, VERY DIRTY.

MR. BOLOGNA: YEAH, I COULD -- I COULD --

MS. SIMON: SO, THAT WAS A GOOD DECISION. BUT

PROPANE IS NOT AFFECTED BY THIS AT ALL.

MR. BOLOGNA: WELL -- SO, A LOT OF PROPANE-

POWERED HOUSES IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS ARE SLOWLY TRYING TO GET TO

NATURAL GAS, AND WHAT IS HAPPENING IS -- AGAIN, IT'S EXPENSIVE, BUT THE --

THE UTILITY COMPANIES ARE ACTUALLY SLOWLY STARTING TO GET OUT TO -- TO

THOSE REGIONS. I GUESS I WOULD ASK IF YOU SHARE MY CONCERN, IN THAT

NOW THAT THIS WILL BE TAKING PLACE, IS THIS A DISINCENTIVE NOW FOR THOSE

-- FOR GAS COMPANIES TO COME OUT, BECAUSE THEY HAVE FEARS THAT THE

RESIDENTS OR THEIR POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, CLIENTS OR RATEPAYERS, WILL NOT

WANT TO PAY THAT EXTRA, YOU KNOW, FOR THE LINE -- THE -- BEYOND 100

FEET? SO, IS THERE A DIS -- IS THIS NOT A DISINCENTIVE TO EXPAND THAT

SERVICE?

MS. SIMON: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S A MATTER OF PUBLIC

POLICY. NEW YORK STATE HAS PASSED THE CLCPA AND WE HAVE A -- A

CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, AS YOU MAY KNOW. AND SO WE HAVE -- WE HAVE A

PUBLIC POLICY TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF FOSSIL FUELS BEING USED IN NEW

YORK STATE BECAUSE THEY ARE DANGEROUS AND THEY ARE HARMFUL TO -- TO

CHILDREN AND OTHER LIVING THINGS. SO, THE REALITY IS THAT THAT IS A BIGGER

POLICY. WHETHER THE COMP -- THE GAS COMPANIES FEEL DISINCENTIVIZED OR

NOT, I CANNOT ANSWER FOR THEM. ALL WE ARE SAYING IS, IF IT'S A NEW

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CONNECTION, INSTEAD OF YOU AND I PAYING FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR, YOUR

NEIGHBOR PAYS FOR THAT NEW CONNECTION.

MR. BOLOGNA: SO I'M ACTUALLY HAPPY YOU BROUGHT

UP A TERM "DANGEROUS" BECAUSE THAT WAS ACTUALLY GONNA BE MY NEXT

POINT. SO, IN WESTERN NEW YORK A COUPLE YEARS AGO RIGHT ON

CHRISTMAS THERE WAS A BLIZZARD.

MS. SIMON: YES, I KNOW.

MR. BOLOGNA: AND 40-SOMETHING-ODD PEOPLE

PERISHED IN THAT BLIZZARD. AND -- AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE LEARNED

FROM THAT WAS, IN FACT, THAT ELECTRICITY IS NOT AS RELIABLE IN A LIFE OR

DEATH SITUATION AS NATURAL GAS. SO A -- A QUESTION WOULD BE WHY WOULD

WE WANT TO -- IS IT NOT MORE DANGEROUS THAT WE'RE LIMITING PEOPLE'S

ABILITY TO AFFORD MODIFYING THEIR HOME TO NATURAL GAS THAN --

MS. SIMON: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE NOT LIMITING

THEIR ABILITY TO GET TO GAS.

MR. BOLOGNA: WE'RE MAKING IT MORE EXPENSIVE.

MS. SIMON: I'M JUST SAYING, RIGHT? IF THEY LIVE 101

FEET AWAY, THEY'RE PAYING FOR THAT CHANGE ANYWAY. AND CHANCES ARE FOR

MANY PEOPLE IN RURAL NIAGARA COUNTY, THEY ARE FARTHER AWAY FROM A GAS

LINE THAN 100 HUNDRED FEET ANYWAY.

MR. BOLOGNA: MM-HMM.

MS. SIMON: AND SO IF THEY WERE DOING THAT, THAT --

THEY WOULD PAY THAT COST. THEY WOULD MAKE THAT DECISION THEMSELVES,

THEY WOULD LOOK AT THEIR FINANCES AND THEY WOULD DECIDE WHETHER THEY

COULD DO THAT. RIGHT NOW IF THEY WERE -- HAPPENED TO BE WITHIN 100

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FEET FROM THE GAS LINE, YOU AND I WOULD PAY FOR IT. AND WE ARE SAYING

THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU WANT GAS, YOU WANT A NEW CONNECTION. YOU

THINK THAT'S BETTER FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. GET THE CONNECTION. BUT

DON'T -- WE SHOULDN'T BE BEARING THAT COST.

MR. BOLOGNA: I -- I -- AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND THE

POINT. I -- I GUESS, YOU KNOW, THREE-FOURTHS, SO, YOU KNOW, 75 PERCENT

OF PEOPLE IN THIS STATE WANT THE ABILITY TO -- TO CHOOSE NATURAL GAS. AND

I -- I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS DOESN'T NECESSARILY LIMIT THAT. BUT AS THE

PEOPLE'S HOUSE, 75-PLUS PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE ARE TELLING US THAT THEY

WANT THE ABILITY TO KEEP NATURAL GAS. SO I -- I GUESS IT -- IT'S MORE IN THE

WHAT THIS BILL SAYS THAT -- THAT CONCERNS ME. I GUESS IS -- IT'S REALLY NOT

A QUESTION, IT'S MORE OF A STATEMENT.

MS. SIMON: SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE QUESTION IS.

MR. BOLOGNA: BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ONE. IT WAS

JUST A STATEMENT.

MS. SIMON: OKAY.

MR. BOLOGNA: SO I GUESS -- YOU KNOW, THANK YOU

VERY MUCH FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

MS. SIMON: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MR. BOLOGNA: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. BOLOGNA: OVERALL, THERE -- THERE ARE JUST A LOT

OF CONCERNS WITH THIS. AND AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND THE -- THE -- THE PORTION

OF -- OF SELF-RELIANCE AND HAVING SOMEONE PAY FOR SOMETHING THAT THEY

ARE DOING THEIRSELVES [SIC]. BUT THAT REALLY SHOULD THEN START TO FILTER IN

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THE OTHER PARTS OF WHAT WE DO HERE IN THE STATE ASSEMBLY.

A POINT WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER THAT -- THAT NATURAL GAS

IN WEST [SIC] NEW YORK IS CHEAPER THAN IT IS OUT ON LONG ISLAND OR IN

(INDISCERNIBLE) DOWNSTATE. FINE. THEN WHY IS THERE NOT A CARVEOUT FOR

WESTERN NEW YORK? YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT I SPEAK TO BACK HOME

HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS IN THIS STATE ABOUT WHERE OUR ENERGY POLICIES

ARE. AND I THINK THERE IS A TONE DEAFNESS THROUGHOUT THE NEW YORK

STATE, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT THAT WESTERN NEW YORK IS A VERY REAL

AND LEGITIMATE CONCERN THAT OUR ABILITY TO HAVE NATURAL GAS AND KEEP

NATURAL GAS FOR EMERGENCY SITUATIONS AND JUST OVERALL WAY OF LIFE IS

SLOWLY BEING ERODED.

SO FOR THOSE REASONS I WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK

YOU VERY MUCH.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. BAILEY.

MRS. BAILEY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. SIMON: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MRS. BAILEY: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I HAVE A

COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. SPECIFICALLY, WHAT IS THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS

PIECE OF LEGISLATION?

MS. SIMON: IMMEDIATELY.

MRS. BAILEY: IMMEDIATELY. OKAY. SO YOU HAVE

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MENTIONED A COUPLE TIMES TODAY THAT, YOU KNOW, IF PROJECTS ARE -- ARE

STARTED OR DONE BEFORE THE DECEMBER 31ST TIME FRAME THAT THEY WOULD

FALL UNDER THIS WITH THE 100 FOOT -- YOU KNOW, HAVING THE CONNECTION

UP TO THE RESIDENTIAL. WHY ARE WE DOING THIS, THEN, IF COME DECEMBER

31ST THINGS ARE SHIFTING?

MS. SIMON: BECAUSE THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT

ONLY APPLIES TO NEW CONSTRUCTION, RIGHT? THIS APPLIES TO, LET'S SAY, A

NEW CONNECTION THAT MIGHT BE NEW CONSTRUCTION, BUT IT ALSO MIGHT BE A

CONVERSION. LET'S SAY IF YOU WERE CONVERTING FROM OIL TO NATURAL GAS,

THIS WOULD AFFECT YOU. THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT DOESN'T AFFECT

THAT AT ALL.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THAT ANSWER,

BECAUSE THAT TAKES ME INTO MY NEXT QUESTION.

MS. SIMON: MM-HMM.

MRS. BAILEY: SO THOSE PROJECTS -- YOU KNOW,

WE'VE TALKED QUITE A BIT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, RURAL WESTERN NEW YORK.

THAT IS WHERE I RESIDE MYSELF. AND WE HAVE SOME PROJECTS CURRENTLY

THAT WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW CAN WE MOVE THEM FORWARD

BECAUSE WE -- WE DO HAVE A CRISIS WHEN IT COMES TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING

IN OUR AREA. AND WE HAVE A COUPLE NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS GOING

UP; HOWEVER, THE GRID, THE ELECTRICAL GRID CAN'T HANDLE IF -- IF WE WERE

TO MOVE FORWARD TO THE ALL-ELECTRIC MANDATE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT

DECEMBER 31ST. SO SOME OF THE ANSWERS TO THAT WAS [SIC] COULD WE

POTENTIALLY USE GAS FOR SOME PIECES TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE THIS

AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN OUR AREA. SO, UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN I READ YOUR

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LEGISLATION AND AS YOU JUST INDICATED WITH THE -- THE DATE OF THE

EFFECTIVE PIECE, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

MS. SIMON: WELL, I WOULD DISAGREE BECAUSE IT'S A

PHASING IN OF THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT OVER TWO YEARS. SO IT'S NOT

AN IMMEDIATE HAPPENING ON JANUARY 1, 2026. SO I WAS REALLY MORE

FOCUSED ON THE ISSUE OF WHO WOULD BE DOING THE -- THE CONNECTING KIND

OF THING. SO THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT IS PHASED IN OVER A PERIOD

OF TWO YEARS, AND SO IT'S -- IT'S NOT ENTIRELY THE SAME SITUATION THAT YOU

LAID OUT.

MRS. BAILEY: BUT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT AND

WE'RE TALKING AFFORDABLE HOUSING, I -- I LOOK AT IT AS, YOU KNOW,

DEFINITELY A BARRIER THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE IN AND AROUND THE HOOKUP

PIECE OF IT. BECAUSE IF NOW WE'RE MOVING THAT -- THAT PIECE OF, YOU

KNOW, ONTO THE HOMEOWNER OR THE NEW, YOU KNOW, PURCHASER -- YOU

KNOW, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU CAN'T PURCHASE A HOME FOR $100,000

ANYMORE. BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN OUR AREA BETWEEN

$150- AND $200,000. THAT IS INEXPENSIVE RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU LOOK AT

THE HOUSING MARKET. SO WHETHER THE EXPENSE IS 7,500, 10,000, 2,000,

IT'S GOING TO INCREMENTALLY BE A HANDICAP, POTENTIALLY, FOR THESE

INDIVIDUALS THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO MOVE INTO THOSE AREAS.

MS. SIMON: WELL, IN THE SITUATION YOU'RE TALKING

ABOUT NOW WITH PROJECTS UNDER DEVELOPMENT, THEY WOULD STILL BE ABLE

TO GET GAS. THEY'RE NOT AFFECTED BY THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT.

AND AGAIN, THIS BILL ONLY CONNECTS -- ONLY AFFECTS WHO'S PAYING FOR THAT

CONNECTION. THE REALITY IS WE'RE NOT COSTING PEOPLE -- WHAT -- WHAT

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WE'RE DOING IS NOT COSTING YOU AND I FOR THE COST OF SOMEBODY ELSE

PUTTING IN A CONNECTION. THAT IS ALL THIS DOES. RIGHT NOW THOSE -- THOSE

CONNECTIONS ARE NOT SUBSIDIZED BY THE COMPANY, THEY ARE SUBSIDIZED BY

THE OTHER RATEPAYERS. AND SO THE REALITY IS THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY AFFECTING

THE AFFORDABILITY OF HOUSING. AND AFFORD -- HOUSING AFFORDABILITY IS

GOING UP BECAUSE OF A VARIETY OF REASONS, AS YOU KNOW, AND IT IS GOING

UP ALL OVER THE STATE. THEY CERTAINLY HAVE -- YOU WOULD HAVE NO IDEA --

I CAN'T RENT, YOU KNOW, A PARKING SPACE FOR UNDER $7,000 A YEAR. SO

BIG DIFFERENCE IN COSTS, BUT THOSE COSTS ARE ALL GOING UP. AND THEY'RE

GOING UP EVEN MORE IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE STATE THAN WESTERN NEW

YORK. SO YOU GUYS ARE DOING GOOD THAT WAY.

MRS. BAILEY: SO I GUESS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF BACK

TO WHAT MY COLLEAGUE HAD INDICATED, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT

REGIONALITIES OF THE STATE, YOU KNOW, ALL TOO OFTEN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE

ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL. SO DID WE LOOK AT ANY PROJECTS THAT ARE OUT THERE

ACROSS THE STATE AND HOW THIS MAY OR MAY NOT IMPACT THOSE PROJECTS

THAT ARE CURRENTLY GOING ON?

MS. SIMON: I'M NOT LOOKING AT PROJECTS BECAUSE

LOOKING AT PROJECTS IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS BILL. THIS BILL SIMPLY SAYS IF

YOU'RE -- IF YOU'RE IN A -- IN A -- TRYING TO DETERMINE WHETHER YOU CAN DO

A PROJECT, YOU SHOULD KNOW, HAVE INFORMATION BEFOREHAND ABOUT WHAT

YOUR COSTS MAY BE. SO IF THIS BILL PASSES AND IT'S SIGNED BY THE

GOVERNOR, THAT PERSON WHO IS MAKING THAT DECISION NEEDS TO KNOW

WHAT -- WHAT THE -- THE FIELD IS. THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY MIGHT BE

PAYING FOR. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT COST -- CATCH PEOPLE

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ABRUPTLY, RIGHT? SO THE REALITY IS THAT THIS IS NOT GOING TO INCREASE THE

COST OF BUILDING A HOUSE DRAMATICALLY, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE COSTS ARE

THE SAME. IT'S JUST THAT YOU AND I ARE PAYING FOR THEM AS OPPOSED TO THE

PERSON PUTTING IN THAT CONNECTION.

MRS. BAILEY: WE'RE PAYING FOR A LOT IN NEW YORK

STATE.

MS. SIMON: WE ARE. I AGREE.

MRS. BAILEY: SO AS FAR AS -- YOU KNOW, I -- I WILL

RESPECTFULLY AGREE TO DISAGREE. I -- I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAVE A

NEGATIVE IMPACT ON -- ON DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE IN

CONSIDERATION RIGHT NOW AND ARE, YOU KNOW, LOOKING TO START, YOU

KNOW, BREAKING GROUND HERE BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR.

MS. SIMON: GOOD.

MRS. BAILEY: IT'S GONNA HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON

THEM.

MS. SIMON: IT WON'T, BECAUSE ALL IT DOES IT SAYS, YOU

KNOW, THIS PROJECT, YOU'RE GOING TO PAY FOR THAT CONNECTION. RIGHT

NOW YOU AND I ARE PAYING FOR THAT CONNECTION. WE'RE SAVING NEW

YORK'S RATEPAYERS $200 MILLION A YEAR THAT WE ARE BEARING BECAUSE

OTHER PEOPLE ARE PUTTING IN A CONNECTION, A NEW CONNECTION WITHIN 100

FEET. AND ALL WE'RE SAYING IS THAT SHOULD BE BORNE BY THE PERSON

PUTTING IN THAT CONNECTION.

MRS. BAILEY: AND I THINK WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING

ABOUT A BILL HERE SHORTLY THAT -- THAT -- IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU'VE

INDICATED THAT. BUT AS FAR AS THIS PIECE GOES, I -- I REALLY AM STRUGGLING

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WITH THE FACT THAT IT WON'T INCREASE THE COST TO BUILD THESE NEW HOMES.

BECAUSE THAT -- THAT IS NOW GOING BACK ON TO THE INDIVIDUAL WHO

THOUGHT THEY WERE GONNA HAVE A GAS LINE BROUGHT IN, WHICH NOW THEY'RE

GONNA BE TOLD THAT THE GOVERNOR JUST SIGNED THIS BILL, IT'S EFFECTIVE

IMMEDIATELY. NOW YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT EXPENSE.

MS. SIMON: IF YOUR PROJECT IS ALREADY UNDERWAY, IT

WON'T BE AFFECTED. IF IT'S NEW, POST-SIGNATURE THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT.

BUT THE COST ITSELF OF THAT CONNECTION, IF THE CONNECTION LET'S SAY IS

$7,000. THAT $7,000 IS NOT GONNA CHANGE. WHAT WILL CHANGE IS WHO'S

PAYING THE $7,000. INSTEAD OF YOU OR I, IT'LL BE THE PERSON PUTTING IN THE

CONNECTION. IF IT'S ONLY WITHIN 100 FEET. IF IT'S 101 FEET, THEY'RE PAYING

IT ANYWAY.

MRS. BAILEY: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MRS. BAILEY: I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR TAKING MY

QUESTIONS, AND ACTUALLY THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERN WITH THIS BILL. YOU

KNOW, I REALLY QUESTION WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING IT TODAY ON -- ON JUNE

16TH WHEN -- WHEN WE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, COME DECEMBER 31ST WE'RE

-- WE'RE MOVING INTO, YOU KNOW, ALL-ELECTRIC WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT

THIS. THIS WILL DEFINITELY HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON MY DISTRICT ON

PROJECTS THAT ARE IN THE WORKS RIGHT NOW. I FIND IT INTERESTING, YOU

KNOW, EVERY -- YOU KNOW, EVERYONE NEEDS ELECTRICITY. NOT EVERYONE

NEEDS GAS. I REMEMBER THE -- THE ICE STORM OF '91. EVERYONE

DESCENDED ON MY -- AT MY MOTHER'S HOUSE. AND THE REASON WHY IS

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BECAUSE SHE HAD A GAS STOVE. SO GUESS WHAT? WE WERE ABLE TO

CONTINUE TO -- TO COOK, TO EAT AND -- AND CARRY ON. I WORKED AT A LOCAL

PIZZERIA AT THE SAME TIME. WE WERE ABLE TO FEED THE CREWS, THE

LINEMEN, WHEN THEY CAME INTO TOWN BECAUSE WE HAD GAS OVENS. SO WE

WERE ABLE TO USE THE PRODUCT THAT WAS IN THE WALK-IN COOLERS, AND WE

WERE ABLE TO USE THAT. WE DIDN'T LOSE THAT, AND WE WERE ABLE TO THEN

CONTRIBUTE BACK TO THE FOLKS WHO WERE OUT THERE GETTING THE ELECTRIC

TURNED BACK ON.

WE HAVE REALLY GOTTA TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. YOU KNOW,

WHAT MIGHT BE GOOD FOR ONE AREA IS GOING TO BE CATASTROPHIC FOR

ANOTHER, AND WE ARE SEEING THAT. WE SEE THAT EVERY DAY IN WESTERN

NEW YORK WHERE WE HAVE THE PUSH FOR THE SOLAR, FOR THE WIND. YOU

KNOW, I -- I JUST SAW, YOU KNOW, GOOD MORNING AMERICA THIS MORNING.

THEY WERE IN THEIR NEW BUILDING. I DIDN'T SEE SOLAR PANELS ON TOP OF --

ON TOPS OF THEIR BUILDING TOP. I SAW ARTIFICIAL GRASS THAT THEY COULD GO

OUT AND STAND ON.

WE HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO MAKE THIS RIGHT FOR NEW

YORK STATE, AND WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE IT

UNAFFORDABLE. YOU KNOW, THE SPONSOR INDICATED UTILITIES DOESN'T [SIC]

PAY FOR ANYTHING. IT COMES BACK TO YOU AND I. I JUST WANT TO LEAVE THIS

BILL WITH THAT PREMISE IN MIND, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT WILL BE A

CAVEAT INTO A BILL WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS HERE IN A LITTLE BIT. BECAUSE AT

THE END OF THE DAY, IT -- IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHOSE ARGUMENT YOU WANT TO

ARGUE. IT ALL COMES BACK TO THE TAXPAYER, FOR THE MOST PART. AND I

THINK UNTIL WE ADMIT THAT AND WE CAN SEE THAT, BUT LOOK AT IT IN TOTALITY.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

LET'S LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE DOING FROM THAT 30,000-MILE MARK -- OR FOOT

MARK, AND LOOK DOWN. BECAUSE PIECEMEALING DIFFERENT PIECES ARE

GOING TO CONTINUE TO HURT UPSTATE NEW YORK, AND WE REALLY NEED TO

LOOK AT THAT.

MADAM SPEAKER, FOR ALL OF THESE REASONS I WILL BE NO

ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

MS. SIMON: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: ACTUALLY, I WAS JUST

LOOKING AT THE SECTION OF THE BILL THAT'S GONNA -- THIS BILL IS GONNA

CHANGE. SECTION 1, IT AMENDS THE SUBDIVISION 4 OF SECTION 31 OF THE

PUBLIC SERVICE LAW THAT REMOVES THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE FIRST 100

FEET OF NEW GAS CONNECTIONS IS PAID FOR BY THE UTILITY COMPANY. SO IS

THE NOTION OF YOUR BILL THAT IF THE UTILITY COMPANY HAS TO PAY FOR IT,

THEY'RE SIMPLY GONNA SPREAD THE RATE OUT ACROSS ALL -- ANYBODY WHO

PAYS FOR GAS?

MS. SIMON: YES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: OKAY. THAT'S CLEARER.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SO IN YOUR ESTIMATION, HAS THERE BEEN ANY UTILITY THAT HAS SPREAD ITS

SERVICES THAT DID NOT CONNECT THE RATE TO ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE

PARTICIPATING?

MS. SIMON: NO.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: NO. AND -- AND I -- I -- I

BRING THAT UP BECAUSE I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS, I WANT TO SAY 15 OR 16,

AND MY FATHER POINTED OUT TO ME ON OUR PHONE BILL THIS FEE THAT WAS --

HAD JUST BEEN ADDED. HE WAS EXPLAINING TO ME WHY THIS WAS ADDED. I

SAID, WELL, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? HE SAID, WELL, A LOT OF THESE

LINES FOR THE PHONE SERVICE ARE NOT IN RURAL AREAS YET, AND IN ORDER TO

GET THEM THERE YOU HAVE TO HAVE WORKERS AND THEY HAVE TO GO OUT AND

BUILD IT. AND SO EVERYBODY HAS TO PAY THE COST FOR THAT. AND SO I'M

GONNA ASSUME THAT CABLE, ELECTRICITY AND GAS AND EVERYTHING ELSE WENT

THAT SAME MODEL. AND WHAT YOUR BILL IS TRYING TO DO IS TRANSFORM THAT

MODEL TO ONE WHO -- EVERYBODY WHO'S A RATEPAYER DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY

FOR THIS PERSON TO HAVE A NEW HOME CONNECTED TO GAS, BUT ONLY THAT

PERSON WHO HAS THE NEW HOME HAS TO PAY FOR THIS RATE. JUST THAT

PERSON.

MS. SIMON: THEY PAY FOR THE CONNECTION. THE RATES

THEMSELVES ARE --

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THEY PAY FOR THE

CONNECTION.

MS. SIMON: MANY OTHER THINGS, YES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: SO I WON'T HAVE TO PAY

FOR THE CONNECTION TO GET A NEW HOME BUILT IN RURAL EAST AURORA. THAT

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PERSON WHO'S BUILDING THE HOME WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT.

MS. SIMON: YES, JUST THE CONNECTION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: WHO WOULD HAVE TO PAY

FOR THEIR SEWER SYS -- SEWER -- CONNECTION TO THE SEWER SYSTEM? WOULD

I HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT?

MS. SIMON: THE -- NO. RIGHT NOW IF YOU CONNECT TO

THE SEWER SYSTEM, THE NEW BUILDER, THE HOMEOWNER WHO IS PUTTING THAT

IN PAYS FOR THAT.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: SO THIS IS YET ANOTHER

COST TO THE NEW HOMEBUILDER THAT, MUCH LIKE THEY PAY FOR THEIR OWN

SEWAGE CONNECTION, THEIR OWN WATER CONNECTION, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO

PAY FOR THEIR OWN GAS CONNECTION AS WELL.

MS. SIMON: RIGHT.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE

(INDISCERNIBLE).

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: I -- I -- PEOPLE OFTEN

MENTION WHEN THEY'RE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS THE HORRIFIC WIND AND

SNOWSTORM THAT HAPPENED IN BUFFALO IN 2022. AND PEOPLE DIED AS A

RESULT OF IT. IT WAS REALLY, REALLY BAD BECAUSE PEOPLE LOST ELECTRICITY IN

SOME AREAS. AND IF YOUR ELECTRICITY IS -- IS KEEPING YOUR HEATER GOING,

THEN YOU LOST HEAT AS WELL. WELL, I DIDN'T LOSE EITHER. AND I ONLY HAVE

ELECTRIC APPLIANCES IN MY HOME. I DID FIND A WAY TO GET MY FAMILY

FROM WHERE THEY WERE WHERE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO ANYTHING, AND I

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LITERALLY BECAME A SHORT-ORDER COOK FOR A WEEK. I COOKED EVERYTHING

THAT WAS IN MY FREEZER BECAUSE EVERYTHING STILL WORKED. AND I'M NOT

SUGGESTING THAT IT'S NOT A BAD IDEA TO GO TO ELECTRICITY, BECAUSE

EVENTUALLY WE MAY GET THERE. BUT I AM SUGGESTING THAT WE HAVE TO

MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S -- THE GRID HAS A CAPACITY TO GO THERE. AND IF THE

GRID HAD HAD THE CAPACITY IN 2022 WHEN WE HAD THAT HORRIFIC STORM,

PEOPLE WOULDN'T HAVE DIED. AND SO I THINK IT'S FAIR THAT, YOU KNOW,

PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ADD FOSSIL FUEL GAS TO THEIR NEW BEAUTIFUL HOME, I

THINK THEY SHOULD PAY FOR IT. IF I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD A NEW,

BEAUTIFUL HOME I WOULD WANT TO GO IN A PLACE WHERE THEY DID HAVE THE

CAPACITY FOR ELECTRIC GRID. AND I WOULD GO ELECTRIC, BECAUSE IN -- AT THE

END OF THE DAY, NOT ONLY IS IT GONNA BE LESS EXPENSIVE, BUT IT'S ALSO

GOING TO BE BETTER FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT, AND PERHAPS WE WILL STOP

HAVING THOSE HORRIFIC WIND AND SNOWSTORMS THAT TAKE PEOPLE OUT.

AND SO I AM APPRECIATING THE TRANSFORMATION OF THIS

BILL. I ALSO WANT TO MENTION THAT THERE HAVE BEEN AT LEAST TWO NEW

DEVELOPMENTS IN MY DISTRICT. THEY'RE CLEARLY AFFORDABLE HOMES.

THEY'RE IN SOME CASES HIGH-RISES, IN SOME CASES TOWNHOUSES, AND

THEY'RE ALL BEING BUILT 100 PERCENT ELECTRIC. SOME OF THEM HAVE ALREADY

STARTED TO MOVE PEOPLE IN. AND SO IF -- IF PEOPLE DON'T THINK IT'S

POSSIBLE TO DO AFFORDABLE HOUSING AROUND -- WITH ELECTRICITY, IT IS

POSSIBLE. BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING NOW AND IT HAPPENS TO BE

GOING ON WITH PUBLIC HOUSING.

AND SO I -- I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT

EVENTUALLY WILL CHANGE IN THIS SOCIETY, AS MOST THINGS DO AT SOME POINT.

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NOTHING STAYS THE SAME. IN FACT, ELECTRICITY USED TO BE THE NUMBER ONE

THING THAT WE USED TO MOVE AROUND IN THIS COUNTRY. BUT AT SOME POINT

THE FOSSIL FUEL BUSINESS, GAS COMPANIES CAME ALONG AND THEY WON THE

BATTLE. THEY WON THE FIGHT. THEY WON THE DEBATE. AND THEY TOOK OVER

WHAT ELECTRICITY WAS DOING. IN FACT, I CAN'T CALL OUR PRESIDENT'S NAME,

BUT I DO KNOW THAT HE WAS SHOT AT THE PAN-AM EXPOSITION. HE WENT TO

THE HOSPITAL IN AN AMBULANCE THAT WAS RUN BY ELECTRICITY. IT WASN'T RUN

BY GAS. AND SO WE'RE GOING FULL CIRCLE IN SOCIETY, AND IT'S -- IT'S A

CHALLENGE FOR A LOT OF US TO GO BECAUSE IT'S DIFFERENT. AND IT'S NOT THE

BUSINESS THAT WE'RE IN. AND IT'S NOT THE THING THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE

HAPPEN RIGHT NOW. BUT I THINK IF WE BEGIN TO SPEAK MORE TO EACH OTHER

ABOUT HOW WE GET TO A PLACE WHERE THE SUPERINTENDENT OF OUR

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES ISN'T TELLING US THAT MULTIPLE BILLIONS

OF DOLLARS IN TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE BEING USED -- USED TO DEAL WITH

WEATHER-RELATED EVENTS THAT HAPPENED IN NEW YORK STATE. WE'LL GET TO

A POINT WHERE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT PROVIDING INSURANCE TO

PEOPLE ANYMORE IN CERTAIN PLACES BECAUSE OF -- THERE ARE SO MANY

WEATHER EVENTS, THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT.

SO AT SOME POINT WE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET TO

THIS. I THINK THIS IS A STEP. I WANT TO CONGRATULATE THE SPONSOR ON

COMING TO IT, AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN MAKE THIS AT LEAST HAPPEN. THANK

YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. CHANG.

MR. CHANG: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

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ON THE BILL ITSELF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. CHANG: AS I HEAR FROM OUR COLLEAGUES AND THE

SPONSOR OF THIS BILL THAT WE SAVE RATEPAYERS ABOUT OVER $200 MILLION

BECAUSE THE CONNECTION ITSELF, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF DISINGENUOUS, TOO.

BECAUSE WE SUBSIDIZE SOLAR AND -- AND WIND POWER, AND JUST FOR

NYSERDA, WE SUBSIDIZE OVER $3.3 BILLION JUST FOR WIND POWER AND

MANY, MANY MORE BILLIONS FOR SOLAR POWER. AND IT COSTS FOSSIL FUEL TO

MAKE THESE EQUIPMENT. SO UPSTATE NEW YORK NEED ALTERNATIVE ENERGY

BECAUSE THEIR WAY THEY'RE STRUCTURED RURAL. I LIVE IN URBAN, AND WE DO

-- WE'RE FORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE BOTH ELECTRIC AND GAS BEEN INSTALLED FOR

40 OR 50 YEARS IT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED. GAS IS NOT SUBSIDIZED BY ITSELF.

BUT CONNECTION, YES, BY RATEPAYERS. BUT THE SUBSIDIES THAT WE PAY FOR

ON SOLAR POWER AND WIND IS ALL TAXES, BECAUSE THE TAX CREDIT -- IT'S NOT

JUST THE RATEPAYER, BUT THE TAXPAYER OF NEW YORK STATE PAYS FOR THAT FOR

SUBSIDIES. WHY NOT ELIMINATE THEM AND SEE WHAT THE MARKET FORCES

ARE? THOSE RENEWABLE ENERGIES ARE VERY COSTLY. MORE COSTLY THAN

FOSSIL FUEL, AND IT WILL AFFECT OUR ECONOMY BECAUSE OF THOSE COSTS.

CURRENT TECHNOLOGY, IF WE WANT TO BE MORE EFFICIENT

AND LESS FOSSIL FUEL IS REALLY NUCLEAR. NUCLEAR NEW TECHNOLOGY IS MORE

SAFER THAN BEFORE, THAN 30, 40 YEARS AGO. RIGHT NOW CURRENT

TECHNOLOGY IT IS. I DON'T KNOW IN MY LIFETIME THE BEST, MOST RELIABLE

AND FOSSIL FUEL FREE ENERGY WOULD BE FUSION. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY

ABLE TO LIVE THAT TO SEE THAT IN THE COMMERCIAL FIELD. SO WE HAVE TO

BALANCE ON ENERGY NEEDS FOR OUR UPSTATE BRETHREN, BECAUSE ELECTRIC IS

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NOT RELIABLE. GAS CAN, BECAUSE GAS IS -- GAS PIPELINE IS BASICALLY

UNDERGROUND. MOST OF OUR ELECTRIC FIELD ARE ABOVEGROUND, NOT

UNDERGROUND. THAT'S WHY IT'S SUBJECT TO WEATHER. THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT

RELIABLE. IT IS MOST UNFORTUNATE, AND IT'S SAD FOR CERTAIN AREA HAVE

ADVERSE WEATHER EFFECTS THAT AFFECTS THEIR ELECTRIC -- ELECTRIC POWER.

CERTAIN -- CERTAIN WEATHER FORECAST. BUT RIGHT NOW THIS CURRENT SYSTEM

OF BALANCING -- OF SUBSIDIZING OF THE GAS CONNECTION SHOULD BE IN PLAY,

ESPECIALLY FOR UPSTATE NEW YORK. AND UNTIL NUCLEAR OR FUSION COMES

OUT, THEN THAT WILL BE THE BEST RELIABLE ENERGY.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. GALLAGHER.

MS. GALLAGHER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MS. GALLAGHER: MY COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE

OF THE AISLE ACT AS IF THIS IS A RADICAL BILL. IN REALITY, IT IS AN EXCEEDINGLY

MODEST COMPROMISE. IT IS STILL THE FIRST STEP AND IT IS WORTH DOING. BUT

LET US BE CLEAR: IT IS THE BARE MINIMUM. NEW YORK HAS BOLD CLIMATE

GOALS AS OUTLAWED BY STATE LAW -- AS OUTLINED BY STATE LAW, BUT

SOMEWHERE BETWEEN TOUTING THE GOALS AND DOING THE WORK REQUIRED TO

MEET THEM, WE LOSE THE WILL TO COMMIT.

WE ARE FACING AN EXISTENTIAL CLIMATE CRISIS. 2024 WAS

THE HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD. OUR AIR QUALITY HAS BEEN MODERATELY TO

DANGEROUSLY UNHEALTHY BECAUSE OF RAGING CANADIAN WILDFIRES THAT

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WOULD HAVE BEEN UNTHINKABLE A FEW YEARS AGO. NOW THEY ARE AN

ANNUAL EVENT. UTILITY COMPANIES CONTINUE TO RAISE THEIR HEIGHT -- HIKE

THEIR RATES, FORCING RATEPAYERS TO PICK UP THE TAB TO REPAIR AND DELIVER

ANTIQUATED GAS INFRASTRUCTURE. THE STATUS QUO IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. MY

CONSTITUENTS WRITE TO ME EVERY WEEK, TALKING ABOUT THE INCREASES IN

THEIR UTILITY COSTS. PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO CHOOSE BETWEEN PAYING THEIR

UTILITY BILLS AND PUTTING FOOD ON THE TABLE. THE THING THAT INDUSTRY

DOESN'T WANT OUR CONSTITUENTS TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THESE COSTS ARE

GOING TO KEEP RISING YEAR OVER YEAR BECAUSE THE INDUSTRY IS CHOOSING TO

RAISE THE BILLS. THEY CONTINUE TO REPLACE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT SHOULD BE

RETIRED IN LOCATIONS WHERE RENEWABLE ENERGY IS AVAILABLE AND IS LESS

EXPENSIVE. WE WILL HOPEFULLY ADDRESS THIS IN THE YEARS TO COME.

THE REASON WHY IS SIMPLE; NEW YORK'S GAS

INFRASTRUCTURE IS OLD. IT IS LEAK PRONE AND IT IS OUT OF ALIGNMENT WITH

NEW YORK'S LAWS AND CLIMATE GOALS. IT IS A SHORT-SIGHTED POLICY TO

HAVE RATEPAYERS TO PAY TO REPAIR AGING, LEAK-PRONE GAS INFRASTRUCTURE,

EVEN AS WE KNOW THAT WE MUST TRANSITION TO ELECTRIC AS A MATTER OF NEW

YORK LAW AND MITIGATING THE WORST EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE. THIS BILL

WILL NOT ADDRESS THAT. IT WILL ONLY ENSURE THAT RATEPAYERS NO LONGER ARE

FORCED TO PAY FOR NEW HOOKUPS WITH NEW GAS LINES WITHIN 100 FEET. IT

IS A MODEST SOLUTION THAT WILL SAVE RATEPAYERS MONEY AND BEGIN TO

TRANSITION US TO A FUTURE WHERE OUR CONSTITUENTS NO LONGER PAY FOR LIFE-

THREATENING INFRASTRUCTURE.

THE REASON THERE IS CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT THIS BILL WILL

DO, AS WELL AS THE EFFICIENCY AND BREADTH OF NEW, SUSTAINABLE AND

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RELIABLE TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE IN 2025 IS BECAUSE AS WE'VE SEEN FOR

DECADES, THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY IS WILLING TO SPEND OBSCENE AMOUNTS

OF MONEY AND PERPETUATE FALSE NARRATIVES TO -- TO PROTECT THEIR PROFITS,

EVEN AS THEY UNDENIABLY KNOW ABOUT THE SUFFERING AND DAMAGE THEIR

PRODUCTS WILL CAUSE. IT IS SHAMEFUL AND WE MUST NOT FALL FOR THIS

PROPAGANDA.

THIS BILL, MINIMAL AS IT IS, WILL SAVE RATEPAYERS IN MY

DISTRICT $99 MILLION EACH YEAR. AS THE YEARS AGO ON THE SAVINGS WILL

GROW. IT WILL CREATE A PATH TO ENDING OUR ADDICTION TO GAS ENERGY,

WHICH IS ONLY GOING TO BECOME INCREASINGLY EXPENSIVE AND DANGEROUS.

I AM PROUD TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE FOR THIS BILL. I

WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT ALONGSIDE THE SPONSOR TO END THE OBLIGATION TO

SERVE, AND TO CAP THE RATES FOR LOW-INCOME NEW YORKERS. OUR ABILITIES

TO DO SO WILL DETERMINE HOW LIVEABLE THE FUTURE IS FOR GENERATIONS TO

COME. YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR GRANDCHILDREN AND YOUR GREAT-

GRANDCHILDREN DEPEND ON US GETTING THIS RIGHT.

I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HER WORK, HER COMMON SENSE,

AND FOR HER COURAGE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MS. WALSH: SO I'VE BEEN LISTENING TO THE DEBATE

TODAY, AND I -- I JUST FIND IT SO AMUSING THAT THE SPONSOR RHETORICALLY

ASKS SHOULD YOU PAY FOR YOUR OWN CONNECTION OR SHOULD ALL RATEPAYERS,

RIGHT? SO -- AND I THINK IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THE -- THE CONCEPT IS

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SHOULD ALL RATEPAYERS PAY AS AN IDEA OF, LIKE, A GREATER SOCIAL GOAL OR A

SOCIAL UTILITY, OR SHOULD THE INDIVIDUAL HAVE TO PAY. AND IT'S VERY

INTERESTING, THE POSITION THAT'S TAKEN BY THE SPONSOR AND BY THE PREVIOUS

SPEAKER AND BY MEMBERS OF THE MAJORITY THAT THEY WANT SO MANY OTHER

THINGS TO BE FREE OR EXTREMELY REDUCED. AND I JUST STARTED JOTTING DOWN

A QUICK LIST. HERE WE GO: FREE HEALTHCARE, INCLUDING EVERYTHING UNDER

THE SUN COVERED UNDER THE MEDICAID PROGRAM. FREE BIRTH CONTROL. FREE

COLLEGE. FREE HOUSING OR RENT. FREE MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS. FREE

CHILDCARE. FREE SCHOOL LUNCHES. FREE LEGAL AID, REPRESENTATION IN COURT.

FREE PRESCHOOL. FREE TRANSLATION SERVICES. FREE FOOD UNDER SNAP,

WIC, EBT. WE'RE GONNA TAKE UP A BILL A LITTLE BIT LATER LOOKING FOR A

PORTION OF THE THRUWAY NEAR SYRACUSE TO BE FREE. TAX CREDITS FOR GREEN

ENERGY INITIATIVES, HAVING KIDS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. BUT ON

THIS ONE, ON THIS BILL WE WANT THE HOMEOWNER TO PAY. THE HOMEOWNER

NEEDS TO STEP UP AND PAY FOR THEMSELVES. SO -- AS AN UPFRONT COST, AND

THAT'S ON TOP OF ALL THE OTHER UPFRONT COSTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY IN

ORDER TO OWN THEIR OWN HOME; THEIR CLOSING COSTS AND -- AND EVERYTHING

ELSE. IT HAS NEVER, MY FRIENDS, BEEN HARDER FOR NEW YORKERS TO OWN

THEIR OWN HOMES, AND -- AND THIS BILL IS GONNA MAKE IT EVEN HARDER. SO

IF I CAN PUT WORDS IN THE -- THE MOUTHS OF THOSE WHO SUPPORT THIS BILL I

WOULD SAY HOUSING CRISIS? WHAT HOUSING CRISIS?

IF THIS BILL BECOMES A LAW, WE WILL ALL KNOW FOR SURE

WHAT SOME OF US ALREADY SUSPECT: THAT THE MAJORITY'S SO-CALLED

AFFORDABILITY AGENDA FOR NEW YORKERS IS A JOKE. I VOTE NO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. RA.

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MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. SIMON: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. RA: THANK YOU. SO IF WE CAN JUST GO BACK FOR A

MINUTE, BECAUSE I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU'RE RIGHT. THE BILL

LANGUAGE ITSELF IS -- IS SHORT IN WHAT IT DOES, BUT WE OBVIOUSLY NEED TO

THINK ABOUT HOW THIS INTERACTS WITH THE OTHER POLICIES THAT HAVE BEEN

BROUGHT FORWARD. AND I THINK IT'S FAIRLY OBVIOUS THAT ONE OF THOSE

THINGS THAT WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND IS HOW IT INTERACTS WITH ALL-ELECTRIC

BUILDINGS AND THE PROCESS THAT IS ONGOING WITH REGARD TO COMING FORTH

WITH -- WITH REGULATIONS FOR THAT, AND I THINK WE JUST FINISHED KIND OF A

COMMENT PERIOD WITH REGARD TO THAT.

SO WHAT THIS BILL DOES, AS YOU SAID, IS IT SAYS THE

100-FOOT RULE, WHICH -- WHICH HAS THE UTILITY COVER THAT COST IF YOU'RE

WITHIN 100 FEET, IS -- IS REPEALED, AND NOW IT'S UP TO THE DEVELOPER OR

THE HOMEOWNER TO PAY FOR THAT COST, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: WELL, I WOULD DISAGREE IN THAT I DIDN'T

SAY THE UTILITY WILL PAY, BECAUSE THE REALITY IS THE UTILITY PASSES THAT COST

ON TO ALL OF THE RATEPAYERS IN THE FORM OF DELIVERY CHARGES, WHICH IS

WHERE THEY GET RATEPAYERS COMING AND GOING TO SUBSIDIZE JUST ABOUT ALL

OF THEIR COSTS AND, IN FACT, SOME OF THEIR RATE HIKES INCLUDE ADDITIONAL

RETURN TO SHAREHOLDERS ON THEIR EQUITY. SO WE'RE PAYING FOR EVERYTHING

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INCLUDING THE SHAREHOLDER EQUITY.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO YOU SAID THE SAVINGS, THEN, OF NOT

DOING THIS ANY LONGER IS $200 MILLION?

MS. SIMON: THE ESTIMATE'S FOR THE STATE, STATEWIDE,

THAT RATEPAYERS ARE BEARING FOR THE NEW CONNECTIONS WITHIN 100 FEET OF

THE GAS LINE --

MR. RA: UH-HUH.

MS. SIMON: -- AMOUNT TO ABOUT 200 MILLION A YEAR.

THAT WOULD NOW NOT BE PASSED ON TO RATEPAYERS, BUT WOULD BE BORNE BY

THE PERSON WHO IS DOING THAT DEVELOPING.

MR. RA: OKAY. NOW, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY

RESIDENTIAL NATURAL GAS CUSTOMERS THERE ARE IN NEW YORK STATE?

MS. SIMON: I DON'T OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT THEY

ARE DECLINING. THIRTEEN PERCENT OF NEW YORKERS HAVE CHOSEN

SOMETHING ELSE OVER -- SINCE 2019.

MR. RA: WELL, SIX OUT OF TEN NEW YORKERS RELY ON

NAT -- NATURAL GAS TO HEAT THEIR HOMES AND WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE.

BUT THERE'S CURRENTLY OVER 4.5 MILLION RESIDENTIAL NAT -- NATURAL GAS

CUSTOMERS IN NEW YORK STATE. SO IF YOU DO THE MATH, THAT'S ABOUT $44

PER CUSTOMER, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, A FEW -- FEW BUCKS A MONTH. NOW,

I DON'T SHAKE A STICK AT SAVING ANY RATEPAYER ANY MONEY, BUT WE HAVE

TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE OVERALL COST IS. WE -- TOO OFTEN WITH THESE

POLICIES WE -- WE THINK IN TUNNEL VISION, AND WE DON'T THINK ABOUT WHAT

THE IMPACTS ARE, SAY, WHEN YOU DO MAKE CONNECTING A HOME MORE

EXPENSIVE. NOW, I WOULD ASSUME AT THIS POINT IF WE ARE GETTING INTO

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IMPLEMENTING THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT THAT WE'RE GONNA MOSTLY

BE TALKING ABOUT CONVERTING AN -- AN EXISTING HOME WITH REGARD TO THIS,

RIGHT? BECAUSE IF YOU CAN'T CONNECT NEW -- IF THE NEW -- NEW

DEVELOPMENTS AREN'T GONNA BE ABLE TO -- NEW CONSTRUCTION IS NOT GONNA

BE ABLE TO HAVE NATURAL GAS ANYWAY, WOULDN'T WE LARGELY BE TALKING

ABOUT EXISTING HOMES?

MS. SIMON: WELL, EXISTING CUSTOMERS OF -- WHO

HAVE NATURAL GAS AREN'T AFFECTED BY THIS AT ALL. ALL THAT WILL DO IS THAT

THEY WILL HAVE SLIGHTLY LOWER RATES.

MR. RA: NO, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT EXISTING

CUSTOMERS IN THEIR HOMES. I'M -- WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS NOT NEW

CONSTRUCTION, BUT SOMEBODY MOVES INTO A HOME AND, SAY, IS TRYING TO

REPLACE WITH NATURAL GAS A HEATING SYSTEM THAT IS FAR LESS EFFICIENT AND

FAR LESS GREEN THAN WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE WITH NATURAL GAS. AREN'T WE

TALKING ABOUT REALLY THOSE HOMEOWNERS WHO MAY BE TRYING TO REPLACE

OIL HEAT IN A HOME?

MS. SIMON: YES. AS I MENTIONED, SOMEBODY WHO

IS DOING THAT WORK WOULD PAY FOR THE CONNECTION AS OPPOSED TO YOU

AND I.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO MAYBE YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS,

BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE ARE THEN MAKING IT MORE EXPENSIVE FOR

SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO REPLACE OIL, WHICH IS FAR LESS CLEAN, FAR WORSE

FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, WITH NATURAL GAS WHICH IS CHEAPER AND MORE GREEN

AND BETTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.

MS. SIMON: WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY MORE GREEN THAN OIL,

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WHICH IS NOT SAYING A LOT. THAT'S A LOW BAR. BUT THE REALITY IS, IN FACT,

IF YOU ARE -- WHEN YOU CALCULATE IN YOUR CONVERSION PLAN, RIGHT, YOU

WOULD NOW KNOW THAT IF YOU'RE WITHIN 100 FEET, AND MANY PEOPLE ARE

NOT WITHIN 100 FEET, IF YOU'RE WITHIN 100 FEET YOU WOULD PAY FOR THAT

INITIAL CONNECTION. YOU WOULD ALSO SAVE AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY

BECAUSE OIL IS MORE EXPENSIVE.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO LET'S SAY I'M IN -- YOU KNOW, AND

OBVIOUSLY THIS IS GONNA VARY THROUGHOUT THE STATE. SOME OF OUR

UPSTATE COLLEAGUES, THIS MAY BE VERY DIFFERENT FROM -- FROM WHERE

YOU'RE FROM OR WHERE I'M FROM IN WESTERN LONG ISLAND WHERE, YOU

KNOW, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT --

MS. SIMON: CHEAP.

MR. RA: THE HOMES AREN'T AS CLOSE TOGETHER AS THEY

ARE MAYBE IN YOUR DISTRICT, BUT THEY'RE CERTAINLY FAR CLOSER THAN -- THAN

MANY OTHERS' DISTRICTS. SO SAY -- DO -- IS THERE AN AVERAGE COST OF WHAT

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IF, SAY, I MOVE INTO -- I PURCHASE A HOME THAT

HAS GAS -- THAT HAS OIL AND I WANT TO CONVERT IT TO GAS AND SAY I'M 50

FEET, 75 FEET FROM A MAIN. DO -- DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHAT THAT

COST IS NOW?

MS. SIMON: IT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON YOUR UTILITY AND

WHAT THOSE RATES ARE FOR THAT UTILITY. AND I HAVE NOT -- THERE ARE MANY,

MANY UTILITY COMPANIES, AND I HAVEN'T ASSESSED HOW MUCH THEY WOULD

CHARGE FOR SUCH A -- THAT PARTICULAR HYPOTHETICAL. BUT IF YOU ARE CLOSER,

OBVIOUSLY IT'S CHEAPER THAN IF YOU'RE FARTHER AWAY. IF YOU'RE FARTHER

AWAY, OF COURSE YOU'RE PAYING FOR A NEW CONNECTION ANYWAY.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. RA: DO -- DO YOU KNOW FOR ANY? LIKE, FOR --

FOR CON EDISON, FOR NATIONAL GRID, FOR ANY OF THOSE DOWNSTATE

ENTITIES?

MS. SIMON: WELL, LET ME JUST EXPLAIN THAT NATIONAL

-- THAT CONED HAS REQUESTED A NEW RATE HIKE, AS YOU MAY BE AWARE,

RIGHT? AND THEY ESTIMATE THAT THE COST OF THE -- THE COST OF THE NEW

CONNECTIONS TO GAS WITHIN THE 100 FEET IS ROUGHLY $70 MILLION IN THE

FIRST YEAR. IT'S A $1 BILLION RATE HIKE, AND THAT COST IS ABOUT 70 MILLION.

SO CONED WOULD CHARGE ROUGHLY THE COST PER FOOT FOR A GAS LINE

INSTALLATION IN 2021, SO I DON'T HAVE NEWER DATA, IS ABOUT $710 PER FOOT

FOR CONED. ORANGE AND ROCKLAND IS $59, VERY DIFFERENT. CENTRAL

HUDSON, 133. NATIONAL GRID UPSTATE IS $53. IN NEW YORK CITY IT'S

$370. ON LONG ISLAND IT'S 67. NYSEG IS 89. ROCHESTER GAS AND

ELECTRIC IS 30 AND NATIONAL FUEL GAS IS 18. SO IT'S MUCH, MUCH

CHEAPER TO HAVE GAS IN WESTERN NEW YORK.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO I WANT TO GET BACK INTO, YOU

KNOW, THE INTERPLAY BETWEEN ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS AND HOW THIS WORKS.

SO, AS I SAID, SIX IN TEN NEW YORKERS HEAT THEIR HOMES WITH -- WITH

NATURAL GAS. NOW, IN THE PROCESS THAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW WITH --

WITH THE PSC, I BELIEVE, BUILDINGS ARE GOING TO BE EXEMPT FROM THE BAN

ON FOSSIL FUELS UNDER THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS [SIC] IF ELECTRIC SERVICE

CANNOT BE REASONABLY PROVIDED BY THE GRID.

MS. SIMON: RIGHT.

MR. RA: NOW, THEY'RE GOING TO DE -- THEY'RE GOING

THROUGH A PROCESS RIGHT NOW OF DETERMINING WHAT THAT MEANS. WE

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HAVE BASICALLY A SITUATION IF THIS IS ENACTED INTO LAW WHERE YOU WILL

CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO GET CONNECTED TO ELECTRICITY AND THAT WILL NOT BE

BORNE BY -- BY THE HOMEOWNERS LOOKING TO BE CONNECTED. BUT IF IT'S

NATURAL GAS, IT IS BORNE BY THE HOMEOWNER. IS -- IS THERE ANY PROVISIONS

WITH REGARD TO THIS IF -- IF WE'RE IN A SITUATION AND A DEVELOPMENT IS

GOING ON AND THEY'RE GETTING EXEMPT FROM ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS

BECAUSE THEY'RE SAYING THEY CAN'T REASONABLY BE CONNECTED WITH

ADEQUATE ELECTRIC SERVICE TO PROVIDE HEAT AND APPLIANCES AND ALL THE

TYPE OF THINGS WE'RE ASKING THEM TO DO, IS THERE ANY EXEMPTION THAT

WOULD ALLOW THEM TO -- TO STILL GET A CONNECTION IF THEY'RE WITHIN 100

FEET THAT IS PAID FOR BY THE UTILITY OR COVERED BY THE UTILITY?

MS. SIMON: YES, IN A WORD. BUT ALSO, YOU SHOULD

REMEMBER THAT MOST EXEMPTIONS FROM THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT

WILL BE COMMERCIAL.

MR. RA: OKAY, SO -- BUT UNDER THIS, IF IT'S A

RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.

MS. SIMON: UNDER THIS, UNDER -- UNDER THE

ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT OR UNDER --

MR. RA: NO, UNDER THIS BILL.

MS. SIMON: I'M NOT PREPARED TO DISCUSS THAT.

MR. RA: UNDER THIS BILL, IF IT'S A RESIDENTIAL

DEVELOPMENT AND IT'S BEEN DETERMINED THAT, YOU KNOW, TO DO

EVERYTHING THEY NEED TO DO IN A BUILDING THEY'RE GOING TO -- IT -- THERE'S

JUST IS -- THE GRID CAN'T CURRENTLY SUPPORT IT.

MS. SIMON: OKAY. THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO ELECTRIC,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

RIGHT? THEY CAN STILL GET GAS IF IT'S -- IF IT'S TOO HARD TO ELECTRIFY. THERE

ARE PARTS OF THE STATE WHERE IT'S VERY HARD TO ELECTRIFY. NOBODY IS

CHANGE -- CHALLENGING THAT IN ANY WAY.

MR. RA: WELL, I WOULD AGREE. BUT ISN'T THE INTENTION

OF THIS BILL TO PUSH PEOPLE TOWARDS ELECTRIFICATION AS OPPOSED TO

HOOKING UP TO NATURAL GAS?

MS. SIMON: IT IS THE INTENTION OF THIS BILL TO NOT

FORCE YOUR NEIGHBORS TO PAY FOR A NEW CONNECTION TO THE UTILITY.

MR. RA: BUT --

MS. SIMON: THAT IS THE INTENT OF THE BILL.

MR. RA: BUT IF IT'S ELECTRIFICATION, WE -- WE WILL

CONTINUE TO FORCE THEM TO PAY.

MS. SIMON: WELL, A NEW CONNECTION MIGHT BE DONE

IN AN AREA WHERE WE'RE -- ON A NEW BUILDING. IT HAS TO BE NEW

CONSTRUCTION. AND SO IF YOU'RE -- YOU GAVE THE EXAMPLE OF CONVERTING

FROM OIL. THAT WOULD BE A NEW GAS CONNECTION. THAT WOULD BE

PERMITTED.

MR. RA: WELL, NO, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT

EARLIER. NOW I'M TALKING ABOUT A -- A NEW DEVELOPMENT WITH REGARD TO

THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT AND THIS -- THIS BILL.

MS. SIMON: THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS -- THIS BILL IS

ABOUT.

MR. RA: OKAY.

MS. SIMON: YOU'D HAVE TO FIND THE EXEMPTION FROM

THE ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDINGS ACT, NOT FROM THIS.

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MR. RA: WELL, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THERE MAY BE

PROVISION -- THERE MAY BE A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE -- THROUGH THAT ACT

WE'RE TELLING A NEW DEVELOPMENT THEY HAVE TO BE ALL-ELECTRIC, BUT WE'RE

-- WE'RE ESSENTIALLY, WITH THIS BILL, I THINK TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY

TOWARDS ELECTRIC, WHERE WE -- I COULD SEE -- I THINK IT'S FORESEEABLE

THERE'S A SITUATION WHERE -- WHERE THERE'S A DEVELOPMENT THAT IS --

THEY'RE BOTH IN A SITUATION WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE INCREASING THE COST

OF BUILDING THAT HOUSING BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY, BUT

THEY'RE ALSO BEING TOLD, HEY, YOU REALLY -- WE CAN'T REASONABLY PROVIDE

YOU ALL OF THE POWER YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO HEAT AND COOK AND ALL THOSE

TYPES OF THINGS.

MS. SIMON: IF, IN FACT, THEY CANNOT PROVIDE THAT

WHICH WOULD BE -- MAKE THIS BUILDING ELECTRIFIED IN A WAY THAT IS

SUSTAINABLE, RELIABLE, ET CETERA, YOU COULD STILL GET GAS. THAT'S AN

EXEMPTION, RIGHT? JUST BECAUSE MOST OF THEM WILL BE COMMERCIAL

DOESN'T MEAN ALL OF THEM WILL BE COMMERCIAL. THAT'S GONNA BE BASED

ON THE FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES, AND THE UTILITY AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE

COMMISSION ARE THE ONES WHO ARE IN A BETTER POSITION TO KNOW WHAT

THOSE ARE THAN YOU OR I.

MR. RA: THANK -- THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. RA: THANK YOU. SO I -- I WILL END KIND OF

WHERE I STARTED, WHICH IS TOO OFTEN WE HAVE TUNNEL VISION ON -- ON

THESE THINGS. TRYING TO MOVE OURSELVES IN A DIRECTION OF BEING GREENER

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IS GENERALLY A GOOD THING. BUT WE CAN'T DO THINGS THAT WE'RE NOT

TECHNOLOGICALLY READY TO DO. THE GRID CANNOT SUPPORT WHAT WE'VE BEEN

TRYING TO DO IN THIS STATE AT THE PACE WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO IT. AND IT

ALWAYS COMES BACK TO, AS FAR AS I -- ANY TIME I TALK TO A CONSTITUENT, IT'S

AFFORDABILITY AND IT'S RELIABILITY. AND WE CAN'T RELIABLY CONVERT ALL OF

OUR STATE TO ELEC -- ELECTRIC. WE HAVE REALLY, SCIENTIFICALLY, A PROBLEM

WITH REGARD TO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE PARTS OF OUR STATE THAT GET VERY,

VERY COLD IN THE WINTER. HEAT PUMPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT JUST ARE NOT

ADEQUATE IN THOSE SITUATIONS. AND I HOPE THIS ISN'T THE CASE, BUT THERE IS

THE VERY REAL POSSIBILITY THAT PEOPLE WILL PAY FOR THAT POLICY FAILURE IF

WE MAKE IT, WITH THEIR LIVES.

NOW, I WANT TO JUST TALK ABOUT THE CONCEPT -- WE'VE

TALKED ABOUT WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE HAVING TO SUBSIDIZE OTHER PEOPLE'S

NATURAL GAS HOOKUPS. I STARTED LOOKING BACK, AND I THINK IN THE LAST

MONTH ALONE -- AND I KNOW NYSERDA ALREADY HAS TONS OF REBATE

PROGRAMS FOR ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT THINGS WHICH ARE -- WHICH ARE PAID

FOR AT THE END OF THE DAY BY THE RATEPAYER. BUT JUST IN THE LAST FEW

WEEKS WE MOVED A BILL THROUGH COMMITTEE FOR REBATES FOR

ZERO-EMISSION VEHICLES, A NYSERDA REBATE PROGRAM. A NEW

NYSERDA REBATE PROGRAM FOR RESIDENTIAL HEAT PUMPS. A NEW

NYSERDA REBATE PROGRAM FOR BATTERY-POWERED LAWN CARE EQUIPMENT.

A NEW NYSERDA REBATE PROGRAM FOR INSULATION. AND THERE HAVE

BEEN OTHERS. I -- I THINK WE HAD A BILL FOR USED ELECTRIC CARS. ALL OF

THOSE THINGS ARE THINGS THAT ARE BEING SUBSIDIZED BY THE REST OF THE

RATEPAYERS IN NEW YORK STATE. SO LET'S BE HONEST. IT'S NOT THAT WE HAVE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

A PROBLEM WITH -- WITH THAT, IT'S THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT BECAUSE

WE WANT TO GET RID OF NATURAL GAS DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT IS THE ONLY WAY

WE CAN CONTINUE TO KEEP THIS STATE RUNNING, MAKE SURE WE HAVE

ADEQUATE ELECTRICITY AND CAN ADEQUATELY HEAT OUR HOMES.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. MORINELLO.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL, SIR.

MR. MORINELLO: WHAT I FIND QUITE INTERESTING

AND PUZZLING, THIS BILL SEEMS TO INDICATE THAT THEY WANT TO SAVE

TAXPAYERS MONEY BY BASICALLY PUTTING THEM IN A POSITION WHERE IF THEY

WANT GAS LIKE THEIR NEIGHBORS, THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT IN THE FIRST 100

YARDS [SIC]. THAT'S FINE, IF THAT WAS THE ACTUAL TRUE PURPOSE. BUT LET'S

TAKE YOUR ELECTRIC BILLS. AND I'M GONNA ASK EVERYONE IN THIS CHAMBER

WHEN THEY GO HOME, LOOK AT YOUR ELECTRIC BILL AND LOOK AT THE

TRANSPORTATION AND SURCHARGES. ON -- AT LEAST IN WESTERN NEW YORK,

THE TRANSPORTATION AND SURCHARGES IN SOME INSTANCES ARE 70 PERCENT OF

YOUR TOTAL ELECTRIC BILL. AND WHEN YOU INQUIRE WHAT'S IT FOR, IT'S TO BUILD

OUT THE ELECTRIC GRID. SO THE CONCEPT THAT THE FIRST 100 FEET IS GONNA

SAVE TAXPAYERS MONEY, IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T HOLD UP IF YOU COMPARE IT TO

THE GOAL OF ALL-ELECTRIC. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT ELECTRIC BILL, YOU REALIZE

EVERY SINGLE ELECTRIC RATEPAYER IN THIS STATE IS SUBSIDIZING A BUILD-OUT

FOR THE LOFTY GOALS OF THIS PARTICULAR STATE. SO IT'S REALLY -- IF WE'RE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

GONNA DO THAT, THEN WHY DON'T WE BECOME TRANSPARENT ON THE

TRANSPORTATION AND SURCHARGES ON OUR ELECTRIC BILLS? LET'S SHOW THE

RATEPAYERS WHAT THEY ARE PAYING FOR THIS BUILD-OUT OF AN ELECTRIC GRID

THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN IS AS IMPOSSIBLE TO SUPPORT THE NEEDS AND THAT WE

DO NEED ADDITIONAL FUELS. EVEN OUR GOVERNOR HAS STATED THAT WE NEED

TO START LOOKING AT ADDITIONAL FUELS, AND SHE DID MINI -- MENTION MINI

NUCLEAR. THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT HYDROGEN. SO THIS MOVE TO ALLEGEDLY

SAVE TAXPAYERS MONEY REALLY DOESN'T HOLD WATER.

LET'S GO A LITTLE BIT MORE. THEY CLAIM IT'LL SAVE 200

MILLION, YET THE ESTIMATE -- AND IT KEEPS GOING UP -- FOR THE BUILD-OUT OF

TOTAL ELECTRIC IS RIGHT NOW ONE-QUARTER TRILLION. TWO HUNDRED MILLION

PALES IN COMPARISON TO THE TWO. SO WE REALLY AND TRULY, THOSE OF US

WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO SAY IT, KNOW WHAT THIS IS FOR. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER

PUSH BY THE HIGHEST-TAXED STATE IN THE NATION, THE 49TH IN BUSINESS

CLIMATE, THE 49TH FRIENDLIEST TO CONSUMERS, TO PUSH ANOTHER BURDEN

UPON THEM TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR GOAL OF TOTAL ELECTRIC, WHICH WE ALL

KNOW.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE OLD MOVIES

FROM THE 60S AND 70S AND FLASH GORDON, GO ON AND LOOK AT THEM.

LOOK AT THE LANDSCAPES WHERE THEY LOOKED LIKE OUR COUNTRY; OUR FARMS

ARE STARTING TO LOOK WITH SOLAR PANELS AND WINDMILLS. AND WHAT YOU

NEED IS, IN ORDER TO GO TO ALL-ELECTRIC YOU NEED THESE. BUT THERE'S NO

PLAN. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH A SOLAR PANEL THAT'S FULL OF CHEMICALS THAT

WE'RE TRYING TO BAN IN OTHER BILLS? WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE LEAKS ON

THE WINDMILLS OF THE HYDRAULIC FLUIDS THAT ARE GOING INTO THE GROUND?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE BLADES THAT ARE NON-RECYCLABLE? YOU FIND A

DESERT IN THE MIDWEST THAT'S THERE AND YOU BRING THEM AND YOU

DEPOSITED THEM THERE. OR YOU GO TO JAPAN AND YOU ASK TO PUT YOUR

SOLAR PANELS ON THE ISLAND THAT THEY HAVE BUILT. SO WHY DON'T WE JUST

STOP TALKING ABOUT "THIS IS A THREE-LINE BILL AND IT'S ONLY TO SAVE

TAXPAYER MONEY", AND LET'S GET REAL ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE. AND

ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES MENTIONED WILDFIRES IN CANADA. WELL, IF YOU

READ THE REPORTS, THAT'S BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS WILL NOT ALLOW

PROPER FOREST MANAGEMENT, CLEANING OUT THE BRUSH. LAST YEAR'S

WILDFIRE, THE PREMIER WOULD NOT ALLOW A FIRE BREAK TO BE BUILT WHICH

WOULD HAVE TAKEN DOWN A LINE OF TREES TO STOP THE FIRE BECAUSE OF THE

ENVIRONMENTALISTS.

SO ALL I'M SAYING IS, LET'S START BEING TRUTHFUL. LET'S TELL

THE PEOPLE WHAT WE'RE REALLY DOING. AND IT'S REALLY STRANGE BECAUSE

THIS PIECE TODAY WAS PULLED OUT OF A LARGER BILL, BUT THEY KNOW THEY

CAN'T DO IT. I CALL THIS LEGISLATURE "CERAMIC NIPPERS." A NIPPER IS A

SMALL TOOL THAT WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING CERAMIC TILE IN YOU CUT LITTLE PIECES

OUT IN EDGES. AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BODY HAS BEEN DOING IN MY NINE

YEARS HERE. THEY CAN'T GET THEIR GOAL, SO THEY STARTED NIPPING. THIS BILL

IS A NIP AT A LARGER BILL. SO MY ONLY POSITION IS LET'S START BEING TRULY

HONEST. LET'S NOT LIE TO THE PEOPLE. LET'S NOT LIE TO OURSELVES. LET'S BE

HONEST. LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT IT IS. AND ON THE ELECTRIC SURCHARGES AND

THE ELECTRIC TRANSMISSION, LET'S TELL THE PEOPLE HOW MUCH OF THAT BILL IS

USED TO BUILD OUT THE -- THE GRID. THEY'RE STILL PAYING FOR IT.

BECAUSE OF ALL OF THAT I AM IN THE NEGATIVE, AND I

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SUGGEST MY COLLEAGUES VOTE NO ON THIS BILL. THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. MANKTELOW.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. SIMON: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MS. SIMON. WELL,

SOME OF MY QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED, BUT BACK TO THE DOLLARS AND

CENTS OF THE BILL.

MS. SIMON: YES.

MR. MANKTELOW: YOU SAID THAT THIS WOULD SAVE

$200 MILLION ACROSS THE STATE?

MS. SIMON: ACROSS THE STATE RATEPAYERS.

MR. MANKTELOW: RATEPAYERS.

MS. SIMON: RATEPAYERS. GAS RATEPAYERS.

MM-HMM.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO ONE OF THE COLLEAGUES JUST A

LITTLE WHILE AGO SAID THAT IN THEIR DISTRICT IT WOULD SAVE THEIR DISTRICT $99

MILLION JUST IN THAT ONE DISTRICT.

MS. SIMON: THEY'VE GOT A LOT OF GAS LINES THERE.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. SO --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: BUT I'M NOT -- I'M NOT -- I'M NOT RELYING

ON THAT NUMBER.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY.

MS. SIMON: I'M RELYING ON THE NUMBER THAT THE --

THE PSC HAS GIVEN US AND WE'VE ESTIMATED.

MR. MANKTELOW: YEAH, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN DOING

THE MATH ON THAT NUMBER, AND IN ONE DISTRICT THAT'S HALF OF YOUR 200

MILLION --

MS. SIMON: I KNOW, BUT THAT'S -- THAT'S NOT -- THAT'S

NOT THE POINT OF THE BILL, RIGHT?

MR. MANKTELOW: SO THAT WASN'T A GOOD NUMBER,

THEN?

MS. SIMON: I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE

GOT IT FROM, BUT I'M NOT GONNA ENDORSE IT OR NOT.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY.

MS. SIMON: I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT WE HAVE

ESTIMATED STATEWIDE.

MR. MANKTELOW: AND I APPRECIATE THE -- THE JOB

YOU'RE TRYING TO DO BY SAVING ALL THE RATEPAYERS MONEY WHERE I DON'T

HAVE TO PAY FOR YOURS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR MINE. I COMPLETELY

UNDERSTAND THAT. I WISH, AS ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES HAD SAID EARLIER, THAT

WE WOULD CONSIDER THAT ACROSS THE BOARD; WHETHER IT'S ELECTRIC, WHETHER

IT'S, IN THIS BILL, GAS. I THINK IF WE'RE TRULY GOING TO DO THAT AND REALLY

LOOK OUT FOR THE -- THE RATEPAYERS, AS YOU SAID, I BELIEVE WE SHOULD DO IT

ACROSS THE BOARD. DO YOU?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. SIMON: WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT IF WE WERE

GOING TO DO AS MUCH AS WE COULD FOR RATEPAYERS, WE WOULD HAVE PASSED

THE NEW YORK HEAT ACT; HOWEVER, THIS IS A JUST A 100-FOOT RULE

WHICH SAVES US A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY. AND THE REALITY IS SOME OF

THESE RATE INCREASES, LIKE CONED JUST RECENTLY HAD A RATE INCREASE. THAT

RATE INCREASE IS ALL ABOUT REPLACING AND REPAIRING FOSSIL FUELS. AND THE

FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY GENERATES A LOT OF ELECTRICITY. SO, YOU KNOW, SOME

OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT ARE BEING MADE I THINK ARE SOMEWHAT MISPLACED.

MR. MANKTELOW: OKAY. I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING

THE TIME JUST TO ANSWER MY COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. MANKTELOW: AS MY COLLEAGUE JUST SAID

EARLIER, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY NEED TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT TRANSPARENCY

AND REALLY WHAT'S GOING ON. AND ONE OF MY CONCERNS HERE IS WE'RE

TRYING TO DO THIS ACROSS NEW YORK STATE; IT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID. BUT

I'M GONNA ADD TO IT. WE HAVE HAD BLIZZARDS. WE HAVE HAD ICE STORMS.

WE HAVE HAD EVERYTHING POSSIBLE YOU CAN THINK OF. THAT'S NEVER GOING

TO GO AWAY.

MY NEIGHBORS ARE AMISH. THEY HAVE NO ELECTRICITY AT

ALL, OTHER THAN A SOLAR PORTION THAT THEY CHARGE UP A CELL PHONE WITH.

THEY BURN WOOD. AND WHY AM I SAYING THIS? BECAUSE IT'S THEIR

CHOICE. JUST LIKE US, I WANT TO PROTECT MY FAMILY. I WANT TO PROTECT MY

CHILDREN, MY GRANDCHILDREN, MY MOTHER. SENIORS. LET US HAVE THE

ABILITY TO MAKE THAT DECISION. NOT WE AS LEGISLATORS, BUT WE AS

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INDIVIDUALS IN NEW YORK STATE HERE IN AMERICA. AND WHAT WE'RE

DOING HERE IS WE'RE SAYING THAT IF YOU WANT TO HOOK UP NATURAL GAS TO

YOUR HOUSE, WE'RE GONNA CHARGE YOU JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN NOT

CHARGING THIS INDIVIDUAL DOWN THE STREET THAT WANTS ELECTRIC.

AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE ALL IN FAVOR OF CLEANING UP OUR

ENVIRONMENT USING ELECTRICITY TO DO AS MUCH AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. I DID

THE MATH. I'VE TALKED TO RG&E. I'VE TALKED TO NYSEG. I'VE TALKED

ACROSS THE BOARD. IT IS NOT DOABLE IN THE TIME FRAME THAT WE'RE LOOKING

AT. SO INSTEAD OF HURTING PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA HAVE TO RELY ON NATURAL

GAS FOR PROBABLY THE REST OF MY LIFE, WE NEED TO HELP THEM AS WELL.

AND WE'RE NOT DOING THAT. IT -- IT SOUNDS GOOD ON PAPER, IT LOOKS GOOD.

BUT IN REALITY, IN REAL LIFE THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT WORKS. AND I WANT A

FAMILY TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DECIDE WHAT'S BEST FOR THEM, NOT NEW

YORK STATE MAKING THAT DECISION. AND WE'VE HEATED A LOT OF FOOD ON A

GAS GRILL. AND IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT, WE'D HAVE BEEN IN TROUBLE. WE

HEATED OUR HOUSE WITH A WOOD STOVE. CHOICES THAT WE MAKE. I'M ALL

FOR ELECTRICITY, BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE SAFETY ASPECT OF IT, MADAM

SPEAKER, GIVING US THE CHOICE AS AMERICANS.

SO THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JUST SAY A FEW THINGS

ON THIS. I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU

VERY MUCH. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. GIGLIO.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW --

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ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. SIMON: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. GIGLIO: THANK YOU. SO, THERE HAVE BEEN

EXISTING HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR A GAS LINE TO GO IN FRONT OF

THEIR HOUSE IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO CONNECT TO GAS, AND THEY'VE BEEN

WAITING A LONG TIME. THERE'S BEEN MORATORIUMS ON GAS CONNECTIONS. A

LOT OF THINGS, A LOT OF HURDLES. AND PEOPLE WANT TO CONVERT TO GAS

BECAUSE IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE AND CLEANER THAN OIL.

MS. SIMON: TRUE.

MS. GIGLIO: SO NOW THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IN

A LINE AND IN A PATTERN WAITING FOR NATURAL GAS, ARE THOSE PEOPLE, THEY'RE

-- THEY'RE NO LONGER ELIGIBLE FOR THE 100-FOOT CONNECTION? IF THEY HAVE

THE 100-FOOT CONNECTION, IF THEY'VE BEEN IN THE HOPPER AND THEY JUST

HAVEN'T HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO CONNECT TO GAS?

MS. SIMON: IF THEY -- I -- I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THAT

MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT THE UTILITY MIGHT WORK OUT WITH THAT -- THAT

PERSON. BUT THE -- THE BILL ITSELF DOESN'T ADDRESS THAT PARTICULAR

INSTANCE. HOWEVER, OBVIOUSLY THE COST OF THAT CONNECTION IS THE COST OF

THAT CONNECTION, AND THE QUESTION IS WHO IT'S BORNE BY.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO WE'RE GOING TO BE

SUBSIDIZING ELECTRIC CONNECTIONS BUT WE'RE NOT SUBSIDIZING THE GAS

CONNECTIONS ANYMORE, CORRECT?

MS. SIMON: WE ARE CURRENTLY SUBSIDIZING ALL

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RATEPAYERS BOTH OF THOSE THINGS. THIS WOULD NOT ELIMINATE THE

SUBSIDIZING OF -- OF GAS SERVICE. IT IS ONLY THE INITIAL CONNECTION --

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. WELL --

MS. SIMON: -- THAT -- IT WOULD BE BORNE BY

RATEPAYERS INSTEAD OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO SAY I WANT TO BUILD A NEW

HOUSE. IS --

MS. SIMON: (INDISCERNIBLE)

MS. GIGLIO: ARE THE APPLIANCES MORE EXPENSIVE,

ELECTRIC APPLIANCES MORE EXPENSIVE THAN GAS APPLIANCES, AND ARE THEY

MORE EXPENSIVE TO RUN?

MS. SIMON: WELL, THAT'S A -- A BIG QUESTION. THE

REALITY IS THAT ALL OF THOSE APPLIANCES ARE COMING DOWN. THE

TECHNOLOGY IS AMAZING. PEOPLE WHO ARE COOKING ON ELECTRICITY ARE

LOVING IT. AND ALL OF THAT WILL, IN FACT, BE MUCH MORE CHEAP AND MUCH

MORE RELIABLE AND MUCH MORE EFFICIENT TO USE, SO YOU WON'T NEED AS

MUCH POWER TO USE THOSE.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES

TALKED ABOUT THE EXPENSE OF POWER, AND -- AND I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. I

MEAN, DURING COVID WE HAD PEOPLE -- THE NEW YORK STATE SAID,

UTILITIES, YOU CAN'T TURN OFF THEIR ELECTRIC.

MS. SIMON: MM-HMM.

MS. GIGLIO: IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY THEIR BILLS

YOU CAN'T TURN OFF THEIR ELECTRIC. AND THEN YEARS LATER, THE UTILITY

COMPANIES WENT TO THE PSC AND SAID, WE'RE $8 BILLION IN THE HOLE FOR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T PAY THEIR UTILITY BILLS BECAUSE NEW YORK STATE

SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO AND WE COULDN'T TURN THEM OFF. SO WE NEED TO

INCREASE THE RATES. SO NOW EVERYONE'S PAYING RATES BECAUSE WE SAID

DON'T TURN OFF THEIR UTILITY BILLS. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT?

MS. SIMON: YES. AND THE REALITY IS EVEN WHERE, FOR

EXAMPLE, JUST SO YOU'RE FULLY FAMILIAR, WHERE SOMEBODY DOES HAVE THEIR

GAS TURNED OFF FOR NONPAYMENT, THOSE ARREARS ARE NOT BORNE BY THE

COMPANY, THOSE ARREARS ARE BORNE BY YOU AND I.

AND LET ME JUST CORRECT AN ANSWER I GAVE YOU BEFORE.

LET ME JUST CORRECT AN ANSWER I GAVE YOU BEFORE WHERE I SAID WORK IT

OUT WITH THE UTILITY. IN REALITY, IF THEY'VE ALREADY APPLIED FOR GAS, THEY

WOULDN'T -- THIS WOULDN'T BE SUBJECT TO THIS NEW LAW.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO LIKE IF THEY ALREADY --

MS. SIMON: SO THAT 100-FOOT RULE CONNECTION WOULD

STILL BE FREE TO THAT PERSON WHO HAS ALREADY APPLIED FOR THAT CONNECTION.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE

ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS. JUST ONE MORE.

SO, IS NEW YORK STATE SUBSIDIZING CONVERSION FROM

GAS OR OIL TO ELECTRIC, WHICH COULD COST ANYWHERE FROM 35,000 TO

50,000 PER HOUSEHOLD? WE'RE INCENTIVIZING PEOPLE TO CONNECT TO --

WITH ELECTRIC, NOT WITH GAS. ARE WE -- THEY'RE COMING FROM OIL TO

ELECTRIC. ARE THERE ANY SUBSIDIES TO MAKE THE CONVERSION FROM OIL TO

ELECTRIC?

MS. SIMON: I BELIEVE THEY ARE. THOSE HAVE BEEN

PRIMARILY THROUGH NYSERDA. SOME LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DO AS WELL.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AND THAT IS THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.

MS. GIGLIO: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE

ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS.

MS. SIMON: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MS. GIGLIO: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MS. GIGLIO: SO, RESTAURANTS ARE ASKED TO COME OFF

THE GRID DURING PEAK TIMES WHEN PEOPLE ARE USING THEIR AIR

CONDITIONERS, WHEN PEOPLE ARE DOING -- YOU KNOW, USING A LOT OF

ELECTRIC. RESTAURANTS ARE COMING OFF THE GRID AND USING OIL-POWERED

GENERATORS TO STAY OPEN AND TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON AND TO KEEP THE

COOKING GOING AND TO KEEP IT ALL GOING. SO WE ARE REALLY SO FAR BEHIND

THE TIMES WHEN IT COMES TO A SMOOTH TRANSITION. AND WE ARE THROWING

EVERYTHING INTO THE SINK ALL AT ONCE WITHOUT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION A

SMOOTH TRANSITION. SO IT'S -- IT'S -- WE CAN'T HANDLE THE SWITCHOVER.

RIGHT NOW, THE GRID CANNOT SUPPORT A SWITCHOVER. IF WE SAID TOMORROW

EVERYBODY'S GOT TO GO TO ELECTRIC FOR EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE DOING AND

USING IN THEIR HOMES, IN THEIR BUSINESSES, THE GRID CAN'T SUPPORT IT.

YOU KNOW, MY -- MY COLLEAGUE WENT THROUGH A LIST OF

THINGS THAT ARE SUBSIDIZED AND THAT ARE FREE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

YOU KNOW, SHE LEFT OFF CABLE BUT I -- I THOUGHT I'D ADD THAT IN. BUT, YOU

KNOW, WE SAID LOW INCOME RESIDENTS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK SHOULD

ONLY HAVE TO PAY 6 PERCENT OF THEIR INCOME TOWARDS THEIR UTILITY BILLS.

THE RATEPAYERS ARE PICKING UP THE REST OF THAT UTILITY BILL. OUR ELECTRIC

RATES ARE GOING HIGHER AND HIGHER. THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT A SMOOTH

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

TRANSITION HERE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY HERE. YOU KNOW, NOT

FORCING NEIGHBORS TO PAY FOR SOMEONE TO HOOK UP TO GAS, BUT WE'RE

GONNA FORCE THE NEIGHBORS TO HOOK -- PAY FOR SOMEBODY TO HOOK UP TO

ELECTRIC, WHICH IS JUST A PREPOSTEROUS STATEMENT TO ASK THE NEIGHBORS TO

PAY FOR A HOOKUP TO ELECTRIC BUT NOT FOR GAS.

AS NEW YORK BECOMES LESS AFFORDABLE, FEWER PEOPLE

WANT TO STAY HERE. THEY WANT TO LEAVE. THE UTILITY RATES ARE TOO HIGH.

THERE'S SEEMS TO BE NO REPRIEVE. THE MIDDLE-CLASS HAS NOW BECOME --

NEW YORK STATE HAS BECOME DEPENDENT ON THE MIDDLE-CLASS BECAUSE

THE UPPER-CLASS IS SAYING, WE CAN'T DO IT ANYMORE. WE CAN'T FOOT THE

BILL. AND PEOPLE THAT I TALK TO IN NEW YORK AND IN MY DISTRICT ARE TIRED

OF PAYING OTHER PEOPLE'S BILLS. BUT WE'RE GONNA PAY FOR ELECTRIC BUT NOT

FOR A GAS CHOICE. AND NEW YORK'S -- NEW YORKERS' CHOICES ARE BEING

TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM. SO WITH FUTURE -- FEWER PEOPLE HERE TO

SUBSIDIZE ALL OF THESE INITIATIVES THAT MY COLLEAGUE READ OFF, AND

ADDITIONAL ONES THAT I LEFT OFF THE LIST AND I'M SURE SHE LEFT OFF THE LIST,

WE ARE MAKING NEW YORK LESS AFFORDABLE. LESS AFFORDABLE TO LIVE

HERE, LESS AFFORDABLE TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON, AND LESS AFFORDABLE TO WORK

HERE.

SO FOR ALL THOSE REASONS I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

NEGATIVE. I -- I AGREE WE NEED A TRANSITION. IT SHOULD BE A SMOOTH

TRANSITION. BUT NEW YORKERS SHOULD HAVE CHOICES. AND THEY SHOULDN'T

BE PUNISHED BY TAKING AWAY THE 100 FEET OF A GAS CONNECTION PAYOUT

WHEN GAS IS CLEANER THAN OIL AND THEY CAN'T AFFORD A FULL ELECTRIC

TRANSITION TO GO FROM OIL TO ELECTRIC.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SO FOR THOSE REASONS, AGAIN, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE

NEGATIVE. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. FITZPATRICK.

MR. FITZPATRICK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

JUST ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. FITZPATRICK: YOU KNOW, IN 2006, AL GORE

RELEASED HIS FICTION BEST-SELLER, AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH, AND THE

ENVIRONMENTAL LEFT, YOU KNOW, DRANK THE KOOL-AID AND HAS BEEN

HALLUCINATING EVER SINCE. WHAT STARTED WITH GLOBAL WARMING BECAME

CLIMATE CHANGE, AND NOW WE HAVE AN EXISTENTIAL CLIMATE CRISIS. LOOK,

ONLY SOCIALISTS AND BROOKLYN HIPSTERS WOULD BELIEVE SUCH NONSENSE.

WE ARE NOT IN A CRISIS. WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE IS TRYING TO KILL A VERY

SUCCESSFUL, VERY RELIABLE AND A VERY DEPENDENT INDUSTRY KNOWN AS THE

FOSSIL FUEL NATURAL GAS INDUSTRY. WE ARE TRYING TO KILL THIS INDUSTRY WITH

-- WITH DEATH BY A THOUSAND CUTS, AND THIS BILL IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF

THAT. IT'S NOT, OH, IT'S JUST ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FORCING THE RATE BASE TO,

YOU KNOW, PAY FOR 100 FEET. WELL, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'VE SPENT

OVER $28 BILLION AS A STATE, ALL OF US AS TAXPAYERS, ON THE RENEWABLE

INDUSTRY; AN INDUSTRY THAT COULDN'T STAND ON ITS OWN TWO FEET IF IT HAD TO

SURVIVE ON ITS OWN. SO WE HAVE TO USE THE POWER OF GOVERNMENT TO

DISTORT THE ECONOMICS OF THE MOST RELIABLE ENERGY-PRODUCING INDUSTRY

WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY TO TRY AND MAKE THIS DREAM OF ALL-ELECTRIC

WORK.

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SO THIS BILL, I THINK, SHOULD BE DEFEATED. IT PROBABLY

WON'T BE, BUT WE WILL CONTINUE TO TRY TO USE THE POWER OF GOVERNMENT

TO DISTORT THE ECONOMICS OF ENERGY TO MEET THIS GOAL THAT WE WILL NEVER

REACH. AND IN THE MEANTIME, WE WILL DESTROY THE JOBS OF THOUSANDS

UPON THOUSANDS OF PLUMBERS AND OTHER TRADES TO REACH THIS PIPE DREAM

THAT I DON'T THINK WE'RE EVER GOING TO REACH.

YOU KNOW, A WISE YOUNG ANALYST WHO FOLLOWS THIS

ISSUE ONCE SAID THAT YOU CAN'T FORCE TECHNOLOGY BEFORE IT HAS MATURED.

THE ALL-ELECTRIC INDUSTRY IS NOWHERE NEAR MATURITY, AND IT CAN'T DO IT ON

ITS OWN. IT NEEDS GOVERNMENT SUPPORT, WHICH MEANS ALL OF US AS

TAXPAYERS AND RATEPAYERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FOOT THE BILL. SO HERE WE

ARE, COMPLAINING ABOUT 100 FEET, WHICH HAS BEEN THE CUSTOM, WHILE 28

BILLION AND GROWING IS BEING SPENT BY ALL OF US TO PROP UP AN INDUSTRY

THAT CAN'T SUPPORT ITSELF.

MADAM SPEAKER, THIS BILL SHOULD DIE A QUICK AND

RAPID DEATH; UNFORTUNATELY IT WON'T HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. BUT

EVERYBODY SHOULD VOTE NO. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. LEVENBERG.

MS. LEVENBERG: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MS. LEVENBERG: I'VE HEARD A LOT OF THINGS TODAY.

I WANNA TO JUST PROP UP AND THANK THE SPONSOR FOR PUTTING FORTH A BILL

WHICH, IN FACT, DOES JUST KIND OF NIP AROUND THE EDGES. IT'S THE BARE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MINIMUM. IT ISN'T ACTUALLY GETTING AT THE BIG PICTURE OF WHAT WE REALLY

NEED TO DO, WHICH IS THE NEW YORK HEAT BILL, AND GET -- GETTING RID OF

THE OBLIGATION TO SERVE.

WHEN I HEAR THAT THESE -- THESE OTHER -- THESE OTHER

INDUSTRIES ARE GETTING SUBSIDIES, THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY HAS BEEN

RECEIVING SUBSIDIES FOR YEARS. I STILL REMEMBER GOING OUT WITH MY

PREDECESSOR, SANDY GALEF, TO SEE WHAT FRACKING REALLY LOOKED LIKE OUT

IN PENNSYLVANIA BEFORE -- BEFORE NEW YORK STATE DECIDED NOT TO ALLOW

FRACKING. I AM SO GRATEFUL THAT WE DO NOT ALLOW FRACKING IN THIS STATE,

BUT IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY MEAN THAT WE'RE NOT STILL REAPING THE NEGATIVE

BENEFITS. HOWEVER, WHAT I SAW WITH FRACKING WAS A DESTRUCTION OF

LAND. A DESTRUCTION OF WATER. A DESTRUCTION OF CLEAN AIR. OVERUSE -- I

SAW CRIME HAD RISEN. I SAW SCHOOLS THAT WERE OVERBURDENED WITH TRANS

-- TRANSIENT WORKERS WHO CAME IN FOR SHORT PERIODS OF TIME AND THEN

LEFT. AND, YOU KNOW, RATES THAT WERE GOING UP AND DOWN. IT WAS

HORRIFIC, WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO THE LAND WHERE FRACKING WAS TAKING

PLACE. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA CONTINUE TO HAPPEN. AND

THAT IS THE SAME THING THAT'S HAPPENING TO ALL OF OUR NATURAL RESOURCES

BECAUSE OF DRILLING FOR OIL AND CONTINUING TO TRY TO RELY ON

UNSUSTAINABLE FOSSIL FUELS. THIS IS JUST A START, BECAUSE WE ARE ASKING

PEOPLE TO STOP RELYING ON FOSSIL FUELS TO HEAT THEIR HOMES. BUT IT

DOESN'T INCREASE THE RATES FOR PEOPLE IF THEY'RE WANTING TO TRANSITION,

BECAUSE THEY CAN TRANSITION TO ELECTRICITY. AND WHEN THEY DO TRANSITION

TO ELECTRICITY, NOT ONLY -- THEIR RATES WILL ACTUALLY COME DOWN, I THINK

THE AVERAGE IS $1,450 ANNUALLY, BY SWITCHING TO A HEAT PUMP AND THEN

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THEY MIGHT GET ALSO THE BENEFIT OF HAVING AIR CONDITIONING AS WELL. SO

THIS IS A SAVINGS FOR PEOPLE. IT'S NOT AN INCREASE IF THEY CHOOSE TO

CONVERT AWAY FROM, FOR EXAMPLE, DELIVERED FUELS. AND YES, THERE ARE

SUBSIDIES BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO MOVE IN THE DIRECTION OF MORE

SUSTAINABILITY SO WE DON'T HAVE THE WILDFIRES. SO WE DON'T HAVE THE

FLOODS. THESE ARE ALL THE RESULTS OF OUR RELIANCE ON FOSSIL FUELS. WE

NEED TO START SOMEWHERE. ALL -- EVERYBODY'S SAYING, OH, WE'RE NOT

READY YET. BUT WE'RE NEVER READY TO START. THIS IS YET ANOTHER PIECE OF

THE PUZZLE THAT WE NEED TO DO TO START SEGUEING OFF OF FOSSIL FUELS.

AGAIN, I'M SO GRATEFUL TO MY -- TO THE SPONSOR FOR

PUTTING FORTH THIS BARE MINIMUM BILL. BUT IT IS A START, AND I URGE MY

COLLEAGUES TO SUPPORT IT. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BURDICK.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR

THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THIS BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. BURDICK: I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

BRINGING THIS BILL FORWARD AND FOR HER TENACITY IN PUSHING AHEAD WITH

THIS, AND TO THANK THE SPEAKER FOR ALLOWING IT TO COME TO THE FLOOR.

AND WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE ASSERTIONS OF THE

MINORITY, THIS BILL IS AIMED TO REMOVE A BURDEN FROM RATEPAYERS; THE

BURDEN OF THE 100-FOOT RULE -- THE 100-FOOT RULE WHICH VERY SIMPLY

REQUIRES UTILITIES TO CONNECT RESIDENTIAL GAS LINES TO HOMES WITHIN 100

FEET OF THE -- OF THE MAIN. BUT WHO PAYS FOR THAT? WHO PAYS FOR THAT?

IT IS DISINGENUOUS TO SUGGEST ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT ALL THE OTHER

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RATEPAYERS NEED TO PAY FOR IT BECAUSE IT'S AN OPERATING EXPENSE OF THE

UTILITY, WHICH THEY RECOVER THROUGH RATES.

SO I ENTHUSIASTICALLY SUPPORT THIS BILL AND VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL. IF THERE ARE

ANY YES VOTES, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME TO NOTE THAT AT YOUR DESK.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. SOLAGES.

MS. SOLAGES: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THOSE WHO

WISH TO VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE CAN DO SO AT THEIR DESKS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

I FIRST WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS GREAT BILL, AND

I WANT TO THANK ALL-ELECTRIC BUILDING ACT [SIC]. THIS BILL IS MAINLY

RELEVANT FOR OUR CUSTOMERS WHO MIGHT BE CONVERTING FROM OIL TO

PROPANE AS NEW CONSTRUCTION IS ALREADY REQUIRED TO BE ALL-ELECTRIC

STARTING IN 2026 FOR BUILDINGS UNDER SEVEN STORIES. NUMEROUS STUDIES

HAVE SHOWN THAT CUSTOMERS WHO SWITCH FROM OIL OR PROPANE TO

ALL-ELECTRIC HEATING AND CODING [SIC] -- USE -- USE HEAT PUMPS WILL SAVE

MONEY; HUNDREDS TO THOUSANDS PER YEAR. IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR ALL

RATEPAYERS TO SUBSIDIZE THE COST OF ADDING MORE CUSTOMERS TO THE GAS

SYSTEM WHEN THAT SYSTEM IS ALREADY STARTING TO CREATE A COST CRISIS FOR

THE RATEPAYERS ON IT AS THEY ARE FACING A HUGE AGING EXPENSIVE GAS

PIPELINE SYSTEM WITHIN A SHRINKING CUSTOMER BASE.

THE -- THE 100-RULE [SIC] POLICY FORCES NEW YORKERS

TO SUBSIDIZE COSTLY GAS LINE EXTENSIONS, COSTING RATEPAYERS MORE THAN

$200 MILLION EVERY YEAR. IT PRESERVES THE SUBSIDIZATION OF HOOKUPS

WITHIN 100 FOR ELECTRICITY OR RECOGNIZES THAT SUBSIDIZING THE EXPANSION

OF GAS SYSTEM IS NOT ALIGNED WITH NEW YORK'S LONG-TERM GOALS AND IS

DANGEROUS FOR LONG-TERM AFFORDABILITY AND STABILITY FOR UTILITY

RATEPAYERS. ENDING THIS SUBSIDY WOULD SAVE ALL RATEPAYERS MONEY,

IMMEDIATELY BENEFITTING CUSTOMERS AND ALIGN UTILITY SUBSIDIES WITH

NEW YORK'S CLIMATE GOALS.

AND WITH THIS, MADAM SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. BICHOTTE

HERMELYN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

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MS. SHRESTHA TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. SHRESTHA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WHEN OUR UTILITY, CENTRAL HUDSON, FILED FOR A RATE INCREASE IN 2023, THE

COST THAT WAS ATTACHED TO CUSTOMER-REQUESTED NEW CONNECTIONS WAS

$44.3 MILLION. AND THE NEXT YEAR WHEN THEY FILED FOR A RATE INCREASE

AGAIN, THE COST ATTACHED TO THAT SAME EXPENSE WAS $29 MILLION. AND

THERE ARE ADDITIONAL COSTS ATTACHED TO THIS EXPANSION THAT ARE JUST NOT

THE INITIAL ONE, SUCH AS THE UTILITY BEING ABLE TO CHARGE AUTHORIZED

PROFITS ON THE NEW VALUE OF THE ASSET, PROPERTY TAXES AND INTEREST THAT

ARE PAID ON THAT NEW ASSET, AS WELL AS MAINTENANCE THAT NEEDS TO

HAPPEN ON THAT ASSET, EVEN THOUGH ALL OF THESE ASSETS ARE DESTINED TO BE

STRANDED.

SO THIS IS A WELCOMED THOUGH SMALL STEP IN BEING

REALISTIC ABOUT HOW MODERN AND EFFICIENT AND UP TO THE TASK OUR ENERGY

SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE, SO I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. SHRESTHA IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS BILL

ENDS NEW YORK STATE'S 100-FOOT RULE, WHICH WOULD SAVE HARDWORKING

NEW YORKERS $200 MILLION A YEAR. THE BILL DOES NOT PREVENT NEW GAS

HOOKUPS, IT SIMPLY MEANS THAT EVERYONE ELSE WON'T BE FORCED TO PAY

$200 MILLION A YEAR TO HOOK UP NEW CUSTOMERS AND LINE THE POCKETS OF

UTILITY SHAREHOLDERS. CURRENTLY, HOOKING UP TO GAS IS NOT FREE. IT'S PAID

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FOR BY EVERYONE ELSE. NO ONE IS TAKING YOUR GAS AWAY. THE

INCONVENIENT TRUTH IS, IN FACT, THE TRUTH, HOWEVER INCONVENIENT. THIS

WILL SIMPLY INCENTIVIZE HOOKUPS TO ELECTRIC AND HEAT PUMPS, WHICH ARE

MORE RELIABLE, LESS EXPENSIVE AND BETTER FOR OUR HEALTH AND THE

ENVIRONMENT. IN FACT, IF YOU LOOK AT NATIONAL GRID'S WEBSITE, THEY

ENCOURAGE YOU NOT TO GET CONNECTED TO GAS. FOR EXAMPLE, HEAT PUMPS

ARE ESTIMATED TO SAVE PEOPLE IN A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME $900 A YEAR

COMPARED TO NEW HOMES ON GAS. IT WILL ALSO HELP NEW YORK STATE

MEET OUR CURRENT ALL-ELECTRIC CONSTRUCTION ACT [SIC] AND OUR CLIMATE

GOALS.

WE'RE ASKING THE SUBSIDIZED -- WE'RE SUBSIDIZING THE

FOSSIL FUEL INFRASTRUCTURE THROUGH RATE HIKES THAT -- THAT REFLECT ALL OF US.

MANY OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE MIX APPLES AND ORANGES,

AND ALL WE GET WHEN WE DO THAT IS FRUIT SALAD.

I WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER AND OUR STAFF WHO HAVE --

WHOSE DEDICATION IS UNMATCHED. I AM THANKFUL TO THE INCREDIBLE

ADVOCATES AND THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK STATE WHO HAVE BEEN

CLAMORING FOR MORE AFFORDABILITY. WE HAVE MUCH MORE WORK TO DO,

INCLUDING MANY OF THE THINGS PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT SUCH AS

ELIMINATING THE OBLIGATION TO SERVE GAS AND REPLACING IT WITH THE

OBLIGATION TO SERVE ENERGY. BUT THIS IS A HUGE STEP IN THE RIGHT

DIRECTION IN AFFORDABILITY AND A HEALTHIER NEW YORK.

THANK YOU. I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. SIMON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

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MS. KELLES TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. KELLES: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I JUST

WANTED TO -- TO NOTE HOW TO ME HOW PROFOUNDLY DISINGENUOUS IT IS TO

SAY THAT WE WANT AFFORDABILITY AND SPEND YEARS BLOCKING SUBSIDIZING

RENEWABLE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE AND THEN SAY WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO

NATURAL GAS BECAUSE NATURAL GAS IS CHEAPER. OH, MY GOODNESS, WHAT A

LIE. AND I'M WATCHING THE LOBBYISTS OUTSIDE GIVE EACH OTHER HIGH FIVES,

AND IT'S ASTOUNDING TO ME. WE HAVE A PLAN TO GO -- TO MOVE TO

RENEWABLE. WE KNOW THAT IT WOULD ULTIMATELY BE CHEAPER. BUT I SEE

OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BLOCKING, BLOCKING, BLOCKING, BLOCKING

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE EFFORTS AND THEN SAYING, SEE, BECAUSE WE'VE

BLOCKED ALL THOSE EFFORTS AND BECAUSE NATURAL GAS IS SUBSIDIZED,

NATURAL GAS IS THEREFORE CHEAPER, THEREFORE THE ONLY THING TO DO FOR

PEOPLE TO HAVE -- TO HAVE AFFORDABLE ENERGY IS TO DO NATURAL GAS. AND

THEN TO FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT RENEWABLE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE, WELL, WE

HAVE SLAVE LABOR. WE HAVE -- WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO WITH THE PARTS

WHEN WE HAVE TO REPLACE THEM, WHEN NATURAL GAS INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE

INDUSTRY HAS PRODUCED MORE SLAVE LABOR AND MORE CHILD LABOR THAN ANY

INDUSTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE -- OF HUMANITY. SO I JUST FIND THAT ALL

PROFOUNDLY DISINGENUOUS. THIS BILL IS EXCLUSIVELY SAYING WE ARE GOING

TO CREATE AN EQUAL PLAYING FIELD SO NATURAL GAS IS NOT SUBSIDIZED. WE'RE

MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. YES, IT'S SMALLER THAN THE BILL WE WANTED

BECAUSE WELL, BECAUSE THERE WAS TREMENDOUS LOBBYING EFFORTS TO CUT IT

DOWN TO SIZE. BUT THIS IS THE MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION FOR THE

ENVIRONMENTAL AGENDA THAT WE HAVE, WHICH WE KNOW ONCE THAT

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INFRASTRUCTURE IS IN PLACE BECAUSE WE INVEST IN IT, WILL ACTUALLY BE

PROFOUNDLY CHEAP IN COMPARISON TO THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE.

SO I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR MOVING THIS

FORWARD. IT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. IT'S NOT BIG ENOUGH. WE

WILL GET THERE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR WORK. THIS IS FOR

AFFORDABILITY, AND THIS IS FOR SUSTAINABILITY. BOTH HAPPEN TOGETHER AND

WILL BECAUSE OF THESE EFFORTS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, AND I STAND IN SUPPORT OF THIS

LEGISLATION.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. KELLES IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. ARI BROWN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. A. BROWN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I

HEARD ABOUT FRUIT SALAD AND DISINGENUOUS THINGS. YOU KNOW, I COUNTED,

I HAD TO STOP AT 33 TIMES OF HOW IT'S NOT FAIR THAT OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD

PAY OTHER PEOPLE'S BILLS, WE SHOULDN'T BE SUBSIDIZING LOWER-INCOME

PEOPLE IF THEY WANTED TO HAVE GAS SERVICE. AND I ASKED MYSELF, WHAT

ABOUT THE $7.2 BILLION THAT THE STATE SPENT ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS? THAT

SUBSIDY'S OKAY, BUT THE $200 MILLION TO HELP LOWER-INCOME

NEIGHBORHOODS, THAT'S NO LONGER OKAY? THAT'S THE REASON WHY I WILL

ALWAYS VOTE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL.

THANK YOU.

MS. CRUZ: WE SHOULDN'T BE SAYING THE WORD "ILLEGAL

IMMIGRANT" ON THIS FLOOR.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. CRUZ --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. CRUZ: (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) IT'S ILLEGAL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: PLEASE STATE YOUR

POINT OF ORDER.

MS. CRUZ: THE WORDS "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT" ARE

DEROGATORY. THEY'RE PERSONALLY HURTFUL AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE UTTERED

ON THIS FLOOR.

MS. WALSH: THE SPEAKER HAS FINISHED SPEAKING,

THEN, MADAM SPEAKER. HE'S FINISHED SPEAKING.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU. MR. ARI

BROWN IN THE NEGATIVE.

MR. GANDOLFO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

FIRST, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT INITIATIVES THE MEMBER IS REFERRING TO

THAT WE HAVE BLOCKED OVER HERE. OUR PARTY HAS NOT HELD POWER IN THIS

CHAMBER SINCE ABOUT 25 YEARS BEFORE I WAS BORN. SO I DON'T KNOW

WHAT EXACTLY WHAT WE DID TO PREVENT THIS ENERGY AGENDA FROM MOVING

FORWARD. THAT SAID, WE HEARD REPEATEDLY THAT THIS BILL WAS SIMPLY

ABOUT SAVING RATEPAYER MONEY AND STOPPING THE SUBSIDIES FOR THAT

100-FOOT HOOKUP. BUT THEN ONCE WE CALLED THE VOTE IT TURNS OUT THAT

THIS IS PART OF A LARGER GREEN ENERGY AGENDA. BUT WHAT IT'S ACTUALLY

DOING IS GOING TO DISINCENTIVIZE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON OLD HEATING OIL

SYSTEMS FROM CONVERTING TO CLEANER NATURAL GAS SYSTEMS, WHICH IN

MANY CASES ARE -- ONLY OMIT ABOUT HALF THE CO2 AS HEATING OIL DOES.

SO IT'S KIND OF MISSING THE FOREST FOR THE TREES HERE. I THINK WE COULD

HAVE DONE BETTER DURING THIS TRANSITIONARY PERIOD AS WE MOVE TO

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GREENER ENERGY. AND AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE RUSHING THIS. NATURAL GAS IS A

VERY GOOD TRANSITIONAL ENERGY AS WE CONTINUE TO MOVE TOWARDS CLEANER-

BURNING FUELS. AND ONCE AGAIN WE'RE JUST KIND OF JUMPING THE SHARK

WITH THIS.

SO I WILL BE VOTING NO AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES

TO DO THE SAME.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. GANDOLFO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. BOLOGNA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BOLOGNA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I

JUST WANT TO ADDRESS THE -- THE DISINGENUOUS HERE. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

AFFORDABILITY IN THE GRAND SCOPE OF THIS UNIVERSAL ELECTRIFICATION PUSH,

THE PEOPLE THAT IT ACTUALLY IS GOING TO IMPACT MOST ARE THOSE ON

UNDERSERVED OR DISENFRANCHISED OR LOW SOCIOECONOMIC COMMUNITIES.

A LOT OF THESE HOUSES AND RESIDENTIAL PLACES THAT THESE -- THAT PEOPLE

LIVE ARE OLDER HOMES THAT ARE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE CONVERSIONS IN THEIR

HOMES TO ACCOMMODATE THIS NEW ELECTRIC GRID. IT IS -- ON AVERAGE, IT

WOULD COST THESE PEOPLE IN THESE -- IN THESE HOMES $8- TO $10,000 TO

MAYBE REDO THEIR ELECTRIC FROM KNOB AND TUBE, PUTTING IN A -- A NEW

ELECTRICAL BOX IN THEIR HOUSE WITH A 220 LINE FOR -- YOU KNOW, WHETHER

IT'S THEIR ELECTRIC CARS OR WHATEVER IT IS, THEIR NEW STOVE. SO, AGAIN, THIS

IS SOMETHING THAT IS GONNA FALL ON THESE PEOPLE. SO, AGAIN, WHEN WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY, I REALLY WANT TO HONE IN ON -- ON WHO IT IS

WE'RE TRYING TO HELP HERE. BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE -- THE -- YOU KNOW,

PEOPLE IN SUBURBAN AND IN, YOU KNOW, UPPER-CLASS COMMUNITIES, THIS IS

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NOT GONNA REALLY IMPACT THEM BECAUSE THE COST IS NOT GONNA BE

PROHIBITIVE. IT IS THE PEOPLE IN LOWER ECONOMIC AREAS THAT THEY'RE

GONNA HAVE TO BE THE ONES TO PAY FOR ALL THE CONVERSIONS OF THEIR OLD

HOMES TO MEET THE NEW STANDARDS OF THE CLCPA. AND I UNDERSTAND

THAT'S OFF THE POINT OF THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION, BUT IT'S A

GREATER MESSAGE OF WHO ARE WE ACTUALLY TRYING TO HELP?

SO I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT POINT, AND I WILL BE IN THE

NEGATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BOLOGNA IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. PALMESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. PALMESANO: YES, MADAM SPEAKER, MY

COLLEAGUES. IF WE WANT TO BE -- NOT BE DISINGENUOUS, LET'S BE HONEST

WITH THE RATEPAYERS. THE SPONSOR SAID THIS IS GONNA SAVE $200 MILLION.

THE CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL PLAN, THE CLCPA, THE LOWER ESTIMATES ARE

A QUARTER-OF-A-TRILLION DOLLARS. SO WE'RE OKAY WITH RATEPAYERS

SUBSIDIZING THAT. MY COLLEAGUE TALKED ABOUT BILLS THAT WOULD SUBSIDIZE

RATEPAYERS PAYING FOR LANDSCAPING EQUIPMENT. THEY'RE OKAY FOR

RATEPAYERS PAYING FOR USED CARS, ELECTRIC CARS. YOU'RE OKAY FOR

RATEPAYERS PAYING FOR HEAT PUMPS. YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT, BUT YET --

AND THEY WANT -- I -- I SEE -- I LOVE THE OUTRAGE AGAINST OUR UTILITY

COMPANIES, BUT IT'S YOUR POLICIES THAT ARE DRIVING UP THE RATES. WHEN

ARE YOU GONNA REALIZE THAT AND BE -- STOP BEING DISINGENUOUS WITH THE

RATEPAYERS ABOUT THAT? THE WHOLE -- ELECTRICITY RESIDENTIAL RATE IN 2019

WAS 17 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR. THIS YEAR IT'S 26 CENTS PER KILOWATT

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HOUR. THAT'S 40 PERCENT HIGHER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. SIMILAR FOR

COMMERCIAL. IT'S YOUR POLICIES THAT ARE DRIVING IT UP. LET'S BE REALISTIC.

LET'S BE HONEST WITH THE RATEPAYERS INSTEAD OF BEING DISINGENUOUS.

AND BY THE WAY, I KNOW THIS IS FOR CLIMATE CHANGE. AGAIN, NEW YORK

ONLY CONTRIBUTES 0.4 PERCENT OF TOTAL GLOBAL EMISSIONS. CHINA IS 30

PERCENT, HAS 1,000 COAL PLANTS AND BUILDING MORE EVERY WEEK. I DON'T

THINK CHINA IS GONNA HELP US. AND IF WE ADD INDIA AND RUSSIA, THAT'S

40 PERCENT OF -- OF USING COAL EMISSIONS. SO LET'S BE HONEST AND THAT'S

BEING -- THAT'S -- THAT'S BEING HONEST WITH THE RATEPAYERS. THAT'S WHAT

WE SHOULD BE DOING.

SO I VOTE NO BECAUSE THIS ALL ABOUT DISMANTLING THE

AFFORDABLE AND RELIABLE NATURAL GAS INFRASTRUCTURE, AND IT'S ALL DESIGNED

TO TAKE AWAY CONSUMER CHOICE ON HOW YOU HEAT YOUR HOME, COOK YOUR

FOOT, POWER YOUR BUILDING AND THE VEHICLE YOU DRIVE. IT WILL JEOPARDIZE

THE RELIABILITY OF THE GRID, LEADING TO DANGEROUS BLACKOUTS, AND IT WILL

CONTINUE OUR NATION-LEADING OUTMIGRATION OR MORE BUSINESSES, FAMILIES,

SMALL BUSINESSES, MANUFACTURERS LEAVING THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

I VOTE NO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. PALMESANO IN

THE NEGATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MS. SOLAGES.

MS. SOLAGES: CAN WE NOW BEGIN CONSENTING THE

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A-CALENDAR?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: YES, MA'AM.

PAGE 3, RULES REPORT NO. 770, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00733-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 770, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, GLICK, ROSENTHAL, BORES, SIMON,

EPSTEIN, SEAWRIGHT, SIMONE, FORREST, CRUZ, KELLES, BURDICK, TAYLOR,

RAGA, LEE, SHIMSKY, CLARK, OTIS, GALLAGHER, SHRESTHA, MAMDANI,

CUNNINGHAM, LAVINE, LASHER, REYES, TORRES, ALVAREZ, HEVESI,

ROMERO, WOERNER. AN ACT TO REPEAL SECTION 2307 OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH

LAW RELATING TO PERSONS KNOWING THEMSELVES TO BE INFECTED WITH

VENERAL DISEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

BILL IS ADVANCED.

THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01740-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 771, ROSENTHAL, SIMON, GALLAGHER, GLICK, SHIMSKY, REYES,

CRUZ, LEVENBERG, WALKER, TAYLOR, RAGA, DE LOS SANTOS, WEPRIN,

LAVINE, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC BUILDINGS LAW, IN RELATION TO

PROVIDING ACCESS TO MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS IN TOILET FACILITIES IN CERTAIN

PUBLIC BUILDINGS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

ROSENTHAL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

163

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01749, RULES REPORT

NO. 772, GLICK, BURDICK, ROSENTHAL, PAULIN, SHIMSKY, COLTON, REYES,

R. CARROLL, RAJKUMAR, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, LUNSFORD, GALLAGHER, BURKE,

STECK, KELLES, LEVENBERG, RAGA, SIMON, CUNNINGHAM, SIMONE,

SHRESTHA, DE LOS SANTOS, TAPIA, EACHUS, SEAWRIGHT, DINOWITZ,

EPSTEIN, HEVESI, ALVAREZ, FORREST, OTIS, GIBBS, STIRPE, RIVERA, CRUZ,

ANDERSON, RAMOS, WEPRIN, ZINERMAN, MAMDANI, MITAYNES, BICHOTTE

HERMELYN, LEE, BARRETT, JACOBSON, STERN, MCMAHON, KIM, TAYLOR,

CLARK, SAYEGH, BENEDETTO, JACKSON, MEEKS, CONRAD, DAVILA, WILLIAMS,

BORES, BRONSON, LUCAS, DILAN, LASHER, LAVINE, SCHIAVONI, TORRES, KAY,

BURROUGHS, VALDEZ, ROMERO, KASSAY, P. CARROLL, FALL, WRIGHT,

MCDONALD, HOOKS, WALKER, BROOK-KRASNY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE

PACKAGING REDUCTION AND RECYCLING INFRASTRUCTURE ACT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

GLICK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A01847-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 773, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

MUNICIPAL LAW, IN RELATION TO DISABILITIES OF MEMBERS OF THE

UNIFORMED FORCE OF SANITATION DEPARTMENTS IN CERTAIN CITIES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

164

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02007, RULES REPORT

NO. 774, STIRPE. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO

PROVIDING TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE TO ANY MUNICIPALITY THAT HAS HAD A

COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY CLOSE WITHIN SUCH MUNICIPALITY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

STIRPE, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03240-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 776, DINOWITZ, LUNSFORD, EACHUS, MAHER, BUTTENSCHON,

165

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

CHANG, NOVAKHOV, PHEFFER AMATO, JONES, DAVILA, SANTABARBARA,

SIMON, SAYEGH, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, COLTON, RAGA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO EXPANDING THE VETERANS TUITION AWARDS

PROGRAM TO ALLOW THE TRANSFER OF UNUSED BENEFITS TO A SPOUSE, SURVIVOR

OR CHILD.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. DINOWITZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JULY 1, 2026.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03425-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 777, MS. -- MR. RAGA, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, KIM, SHIMSKY,

SIMONE, KELLES, EPSTEIN, ALVAREZ, STECK, BURROUGHS, REYES. AN ACT TO

AMEND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION TO TIME FRAMES FOR

RESPONDING TO REQUESTS FOR RECORDS UNDER THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

ACT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

RAGA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

166

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT

JANUARY 1, 2026.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. RAGA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. RAGA: THANKS, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR GIVING ME

AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. FOIL IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT

TOOLS NEW YORKERS HAVE TO HOLD OUR GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABLE. THIS

BILL ESTABLISHES A CLEAR AND REASONABLE TIME FRAME FOR AGENCIES TO

RESPOND TO FOIL REQUESTS, CLOSING A LOOPHOLE THAT HAS ALLOWED FOR

INDEFINITE DELAYS AND HAS MADE ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS UNNECESSARILY

DIFFICULT. BY REQUIRING AGENCIES TO ACKNOWLEDGE REQUESTS AND

PROVIDING AN ESTIMATED APPROVAL OR DENIAL DATE, THIS BILL BRINGS A

NECESSARY CLARITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY THAT THE FOIL PROCESS WAS

INTENDED FOR. IT'S A STEP FORWARD TOWARD TRANSPARENCY AND A REMINDER

THAT OUR GOVERNMENT MUST SERVE ITS CONSTITUENTS AND NOT HIDE FROM

THEM.

I THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR SUPPORTING THIS MEASURE FOR

AN OPEN AND RESPONSIVE GOVERNMENT AND I'LL BE VOTING IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. RAGA IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

167

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03515-C, RULES

REPORT NO. 778, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, REYES, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO

AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO

PROVIDE INFORMATION REGARDING WATER SAFETY IN FORMATION TO CERTAIN

PARENTS OR STUDENTS UPON ENROLLMENT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

BICHOTTE HERMELYN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JULY 1, 2026.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. EVERY YEAR, AROUND

4,000 PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES DIE FROM DROWNING, WITH -- WITH

EVERY ONE IN FOUR OF THESE BEING CHILDREN.

RICHARD EDWIN-EHMER SPECHT, KNOWN AS REES BY HIS

FAMILY, WAS 22 MONTHS OLD WHEN HE DROWNED IN HIS FAMILY'S BACKYARD

POND. A SIMPLE MISCOMMUNICATION BECAUSE HIS FATHER AND HIS FATHER'S

FRIEND WAS ALL IT TOOK FOR REES' LITTLE LIFE TO END. MY SON DANIEL, NOW

OLDER THAN REES, HAS BEEN TAKING SWIMMING LESSONS SINCE HE WAS SIX

168

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MONTHS OLD AT A PROGRAM SPECIFICALLY FOR BABIES CALLED AQUABEBA DUE

TO THE RISK OF CHILD DROWNINGS.

WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS REQUIRE SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO GIVE

PARENTS AND GUARDIANS INFORMATION ON DROWNING PREVENTION, WATER

SAFETY AND HEALTHY SWIMMING AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SCHOOL YEAR.

DROWNING INCIDENTS INVOLVING YOUNG CHILDREN CAN SIGNIFICANTLY

REDUCE -- BE REDUCED WITH PROPER EDUCATION, TOOLS BEYOND SWIMMING

LESSONS. REES' FATHER EXPRESSED THAT HAD HE BEEN PROVIDED WITH EVEN A

MINIMAL AMOUNT OF INFORMATION ON DROWNING PREVENTION, HE BELIEVE

HIS SON WOULD STILL BE ALIVE TODAY. THIS UNDERSCORES THE CRITICAL NEED

FOR AWARENESS CAMPAIGNS, ACCESSIBLE RESOURCES AND COMMUNITY-DRIVEN

INITIATIVES TO EDUCATE PARENTS AND CAREGIVERS ABOUT WATER SAFETY.

SIMPLE MEASURES SUCH AS TEACHING CHILDREN TO DO -- TO FLOAT, INSTALLING

POOL BARRIERS AND UNDERSTANDING THE SIGNS OF DROWNING CAN MAKE A

PROFOUND DIFFERENCE IN SAVING LIVES. COLLABORATION AMONG LOCAL

GOVERNMENTS, SCHOOLS AND ORGANIZATION [SIC] CAN FURTHER AMPLIFY THESE

AFFECTS, ENSURING EVERY HOUSEHOLD HAS ACCESS TO LIFESAVING INFORMATION.

IN THE NAME OF REES AND FOR ALL THOSE WHO HAVE -- WE

HAVE LOST TO DROWNING, I'LL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I ENCOURAGE

MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

169

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03595-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 779, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, ALVAREZ, EACHUS, TAYLOR. AN ACT

AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION TO CONDUCT A

STUDY ON THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN WHO ARE CAREGIVERS AND HOW BEING A

CAREGIVER IMPACTS THEIR EDUCATION.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE

SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03599, RULES REPORT

NO. 780, LUPARDO, STIRPE, RAGA, GIGLIO, KAY, SLATER, CUNNINGHAM,

BEEPHAN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW, IN

RELATION TO EXEMPTING PROCESSORS OF SYRUP MADE FROM TREE SAP OR HONEY

FROM CERTAIN LICENSING REQUIREMENTS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. LUPARDO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

170

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03888, RULES REPORT

NO. 781, WEPRIN, JACOBSON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN

RELATION TO EXEMPTION FROM FILING REQUIREMENTS ONLY WITH RESPECT TO

RATES AND POLICY FORMS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. WEPRIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. WEPRIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. WEPRIN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS

BILL AMENDS THE -- REPEALS A REQUIREMENT THAT BUSINESSES MUST BE

UNWRITTEN AND TRANSACTED FROM AN OFFICE WITHIN THE STATE OF NEW YORK

IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR PLACEMENT IN THE FREE TRADE ZONE. THE FREE

TRADE ZONE IS A USEFUL TOOL FOR INSURERS THAT PROVIDE SOME FLEXIBILITY

FROM THE USUAL RATE AND FORM FILING PROCESS AS IT RELATES TO LARGER,

SOPHISTICATED OR HIGHLY-SPECIALIZED RISK. UNFORTUNATELY, THE FREE TRADE

ZONE FAILS TO BE UTILIZED TO ITS FULLEST POTENTIAL, BECAUSE CURRENT LAW

REQUIRES THAT IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE TO PLACE A RISK IN THE FREE TRADE

ZONE, THE BUSINESSES MUST BE UNDERWRITTEN AND TRANSACTED FROM AN

OFFICE WITHIN NEW YORK STATE. BY STRIKING THIS REQUIREMENT, THIS

171

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

LEGISLATION WILL ENCOURAGE COMPETITION BETWEEN ADMITTED MARKET

INSURERS AND PROTECT POLICYHOLDERS FROM INCENTIVIZING THE PLACEMENT OF

COMPLEX RISK IN THE FREE TRADE ZONE, KEEPING THESE POLICIES UNDER THE

REGULATORY OVERSIGHT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES.

I URGE A YES VOTE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. WEPRIN IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04069, RULES REPORT

NO. 782, PALMESANO. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 366 OF THE LAWS OF

2005, AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF

YATES TO IMPOSE A COUNTY RECORDING TAX ON OBLIGATIONS SECURED BY A

MORTGAGE ON REAL PROPERTY, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE PROVISIONS OF

SUCH CHAPTER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. PALMESANO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

172

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04404-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 783, WEPRIN, HUNTER, SIMON, BERGER, WOERNER, STERN,

MCDONALD, CUNNINGHAM, DE LOS SANTOS, RIVERA, SANTABARBARA, DILAN,

COOK, O'PHARROW, STECK, BENEDETTO, JONES, ALVAREZ, BUTTENSCHON,

KAY, WIEDER, MCMAHON, KIM, DINOWITZ, STIRPE, TAPIA, LUPARDO,

LAVINE, EACHUS, CRUZ, MANKTELOW. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND

TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING AN ONLINE INSURANCE VERIFICATION

SYSTEM FOR MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. WEPRIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT

DECEMBER 31, 2028.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTES.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04914, RULES REPORT

NO. 784, BRONSON, R. CARROLL, SHRESTHA, LUNSFORD, WOERNER, REYES,

SEAWRIGHT, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, WILLIAMS, RAMOS, BURDICK, EPSTEIN,

173

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

BRABENEC, K. BROWN, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, MAHER, SIMONE, MAMDANI,

COLTON, MCMAHON, KELLES, CLARK, GALLAGHER, DAVILA, BORES, ROZIC,

OTIS, BLUMENCRANZ, RAGA, JENSEN, SLATER, SANTABARBARA, GRIFFIN. AN

ACT TO AMEND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW AND THE LABOR

LAW, IN RELATION TO PREVAILING WAGE REQUIREMENTS APPLICABLE TO

BROWNFIELD REMEDIATION WORK PERFORMED UNDER PRIVATE CONTRACT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. BRONSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1ST.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05122-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 785, SOLAGES, SIMON, RA, MCMAHON, SANTABARBARA, SLATER,

DESTEFANO, CUNNINGHAM, LEVENBERG, REYES, EPSTEIN, BERGER,

MCDONALD. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION

TO ALLOWING FOR INDIVIDUALS TO CONSENT TO CONTACT FROM THE C.W. BILL

YOUNG CELL TRANSPLANTATION PROGRAM AND THE NATIONAL MARROW DONOR

PROGRAM TO RECEIVE INFORMATION ABOUT ENROLLING IN SUCH PROGRAMS AT

THE TIME OF APPLICATION FOR OR RENEWAL OF A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR

174

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

NON-DRIVER IDENTIFICATION CARD.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. SOLAGES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT

JANUARY 1, 2028.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. RA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I WANT TO

THANK THE SPONSOR FOR HER PARTNERSHIP ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, THE

SPEAKER, CHAIR PRETLOW AND CERTAINLY MY LEADER, LEADER BARCLAY, FOR

THEIR HELP IN GETTING THIS BILL TO THE FLOOR.

WHAT THIS LEGISLATION DOES IS IT ALLOWS INDIVIDUALS

APPLYING FOR OR RENEWING A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR NONDRIVER ID TO OPT IN TO

RECEIVE INFORMATION FROM THE C.W. BILL YOUNG CELL TRANSPLANT [SIC]

PROGRAM AND THE NATIONAL MARROW DONOR PROGRAM; BOTH OF WHICH

CONNECT VOLUNTEER DONORS TO PATIENTS IN NEED OF A BONE MARROW

TRANSPLANT.

IN THE U.S. EVERY THREE MINUTES SOMEONE IS DIAGNOSED

WITH A BLOOD -- BLOOD CANCER LIKE LEUKEMIA, LYMPHOMA OR MELANOMA --

MYELOMA. ABOUT 70 PERCENT OF THOSE PATIENTS WHO NEED A TRANSPLANT

WON'T HAVE A FULLY MATCHED DONOR IN THEIR FAMILY, AND ACCORDING TO THE

175

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

LATEST DATA MORE THAN 1.6 MILLION AMERICANS ARE CURRENTLY LIVING WITH

OR IN REMISSION FROM BLOOD CANCERS AND MORE THAN 57,000 WERE

EXPECTED TO DIE FROM THEM IN 2024 ALONE. TRANSPLANTS ARE OFTEN THE

ONLY VIABLE TRANSPLANT, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WITH AGGRESSIVE OR LATE-

STAGED DISEASES.

MY MOTHER WAS ONE OF THOSE PATIENTS. IN HER

TWENTIES, SHE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH NON-HODGKIN'S LYMPHOMA. THEY

TOLD HER SHE'D NEVER HAVE CHILDREN. SHE MADE A RECOVERY THROUGH HER

TREATMENT. SHE HAD TRIPLETS. I'M ONE OF THEM. WHEN I WAS IN HIGH

SCHOOL, HER CANCER CAME BACK AND SHE HAD TO HAVE A BONE MARROW

TRANSPLANT ULTIMATELY. IT WAS THAT DONOR AND THAT BONE MARROW

TRANSPLANT THAT ALLOWED HER TO SEE ME GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL AND

GRADUATE COLLEGE. THIS BILL, SIMPLY PUT, WILL HELP MORE FAMILIES HAVE

THE EXPERIENCE I HAD OF HAVING MY MOTHER AROUND FOR THOSE EXTRA

YEARS. WE LOST HER IN JANUARY OF 2007, BUT HER PERSEVERANCE THROUGH

HER ILLNESS IS SOMETHING THAT I CARRY WITH ME EACH AND EVERY DAY.

SO, I CAN'T THANK ALL OF COLLEAGUES ENOUGH WHO HAVE

SPONSORED THIS LEGISLATION; AGAIN, THE SPONSOR AND ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES

WHO ARE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND I'M NOT SURE I'VE EVER BEEN

HAPPIER TO SAY I CAST MY VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. RA IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

(APPLAUSE)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

176

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05207, RULES REPORT

NO. 786, REYES, ANDERSON, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, ROSENTHAL, MEEKS,

TORRES, ALVAREZ, SIMON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

RELATION TO REQUIRING CHAIN RESTAURANTS TO LABEL MENU ITEMS THAT HAVE A

HIGH CONTENT OF SODIUM.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. REYES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05346, RULES REPORT

NO. 787, ROZIC, SEAWRIGHT, TAYLOR, STECK, HEVESI, ALVAREZ, LUNSFORD.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW AND THE MENTAL HYGIENE

LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING WARNING LABELS ON ADDICTIVE SOCIAL MEDIA

PLATFORMS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. ROZIC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05451, RULES REPORT

NO. 788, EACHUS. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 459 OF THE LAWS OF 2022,

AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO AUTHORIZING AN OCCUPANCY TAX IN THE

VILLAGE OF HIGHLAND FALLS, IN RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. EACHUS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

177

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05457, RULES REPORT

NO. 789, SOLAGES, BURROUGHS, SEAWRIGHT, ROMERO, LASHER, DAIS,

MEEKS, SCHIAVONI, CLARK, SHRESTHA, SMITH, CONRAD, SAYEGH, GRIFFIN.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PHASING OUT CERTAIN

MANDATORY UNIVERSITY FEES FOR GRADUATE STUDENTS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. SOLAGES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

178

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05458-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 790, PHEFFER AMATO, STERN, ROZIC. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, IN RELATION TO THE

VERIFICATION OF PARTICIPATION IN THE RESCUE, RECOVERY, AND CLEAN-UP

OPERATIONS AT THE SITE OF THE WORD TRADE CENTER TERROR ATTACKS ON

SEPTEMBER 11, 2001.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

BILL IS ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05496-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 791, LUPARDO, STIRPE, PEOPLES-STOKES. AN ACT TO AMEND

THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO THE TIMEFRAME OF DISTRIBUTORS OF CANNABIS

PRODUCTS TO FILE TAX RETURNS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. LUPARDO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

179

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05592, RULES REPORT

NO. 792, LUCAS. AN ACT TO DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND THE

PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO JOINTLY STUDY AND REPORT UPON THE

PROVISION TO CONSUMER CREDIT REPORTING AGENCIES BY PUBLIC UTILITY

COMPANIES, CABLE TELEVISION COMPANIES AND CELLULAR TELEPHONE SERVICE

SUPPLIERS OF INFORMATION ON LATE PAYMENTS OF OR DEFAULT ON ANY FEES OR

CHARGES INCURRED BY CONSUMERS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH

PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. LUCAS THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05615-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 793, ZINERMAN, WALKER, GIBBS, WILLIAMS, BORES, VANEL,

CUNNINGHAM, ZACCARO, JONES, BROOK-KRASNY, LEVENBERG,

CHANDLER-WATERMAN, MEEKS, SIMON, TAYLOR, KELLES, RAGA, GRAY,

WRIGHT, HOOKS. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE CONVEYANCE OF

CERTAIN PROPERTY BY THE CITY OF NEW YORK TO THE BEDFORD STUYVESANT

VOLUNTEER AMBULANCE CORPS, INC.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. ZINERMAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

180

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05771, RULES REPORT

NO. 794, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE ELIGIBILITY OF CERTAIN PARTICIPANTS IN THE

NEW YORK CITY EMPLOYEES' RETIREMENT SYSTEM TO OPT INTO THE

TWENTY-FIVE YEAR RETIREMENT PROGRAM FOR EMT MEMBERS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

BILL IS ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05851-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 795, BEEPHAN. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE TOWN

OF UNION VALE, COUNTY OF DUTCHESS, TO ALIENATE AND DISCONTINUE THE

USE OF CERTAIN PARKLANDS.

181

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. BEEPHAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A05861, RULES REPORT

NO. 796, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO NORMAL RETIREMENT AGE FOR POLICE/FIRE

MEMBERS OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT PENSION FUND.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MS. PHEFFER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

182

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06337, RULES REPORT

NO. 797, PALMESANO, GALLAHAN, KELLES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY

LAW, IN RELATION TO DESIGNATING CERTAIN PORTIONS OF THE STATE HIGHWAY

SYSTEM AS THE "BETWEEN CAYUGA AND SENECA LAKES WINE TRAIL."

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

PALMESANO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06661-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 798, PALMESANO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN

RELATION TO DEDICATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM TO

SERGEANT JAMES S. HAYES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

PALMESANO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

183

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06917-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 799, MCDONALD, LAVINE, RAGA, BURDICK, STECK, BARRETT,

CRUZ, ANGELINO, DAVILA, KAY, RAMOS, SEAWRIGHT, BURROUGHS, KASSAY,

PHEFFER AMATO, REYES, BEEPHAN, MILLER, LUNSFORD, PAULIN, GALLAGHER,

TAPIA, SHRESTHA, EPSTEIN, GLICK, EACHUS, DE LOS SANTOS, ROZIC,

SHIMSKY, LUPARDO, R. CARROLL, LEVENBERG, STIRPE, MCMAHON, BORES,

WEPRIN, WOERNER, JACOBSON, STERN, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING CERTAIN HEALTH INSURANCE

POLICIES INCLUDE COVERAGE SERVICES PROVIDED BY PHARMACISTS RELATED TO

CONTRACEPTIVES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MCDONALD, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

184

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07349-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 800, MORINELLO. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE

TOWN OF NIAGARA TO ALIENATE AND DISCONTINUE THE USE OF CERTAIN

PARKLANDS AND TO CONVEY SUCH PARKLANDS TO RAJENDRA SHARMA.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MORINELLO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07359, RULES REPORT

NO. 801, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO ELIGIBILITY FOR PARTICIPANTS IN THE

AUTOMOTIVE 25-YEAR/AGE 50 PENSION PLAN WITH MORE THAN 30 OF

CREDITED SERVICE WHO REMAIN IN ACTIVE SERVICE AFTER AGE 62 TO RECEIVE A

SERVICE RETIREMENT BENEFIT EQUIVALENT TO THE STANDARD SERVICE RETIREMENT

BENEFIT RECEIVED BY TIER IV MEMBERS WITH THE SAME AGE AND SERVICE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

185

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. FITZPATRICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. FITZPATRICK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

AT THIS TIME OF YEAR THERE ARE AN AWFUL LOT OF PENSION SWEETENER BILLS.

AND I AM NOT OPPOSED TO IMPROVING BENEFITS, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT THEY

SHOULD BE NEGOTIATED RATHER THAN GO THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE. IT'S NOT

UNFAIR NOR IS IT UNREASONABLE TO ASK THE OTHER SIDE TO PUT SOMETHING ON

THE TABLE TO HELP OFFSET THE COST TO EASE THE BURDEN ON -- ON THE

TAXPAYER. AND FOR THAT REASON I -- I VOTE NO.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. PAT --

FITZPATRICK IN THE NEGATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07403, RULES REPORT

NO. 802, PHEFFER AMATO, LEVENBERG, HEVESI. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING FOR THE

TRANSFER OF SERVICE CREDIT BETWEEN CERTAIN RETIREMENT SYSTEMS.

186

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07420, RULES REPORT

NO. 803, SEMPOLINSKI. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 98 OF THE LAWS OF

2009 AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF

CATTARAUGUS TO IMPOSE AN ADDITIONAL MORTGAGE RECORDING TAX, IN

RELATION TO THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

SEMPOLINSKI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

187

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07461, RULES REPORT

NO. 804, BRABENEC. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

EXTENDING THE AUTHORITY OF THE COUNTY OF ORANGE TO IMPOSE AN

ADDITIONAL RATE OF SALES AND COMPENSATING USE TAXES; AND PROVIDING FOR

THE USE OF THE TAX FUNDS COLLECTED.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BRABENEC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07481, RULES REPORT

NO. 805, SEMPOLINSKI. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION OF THE PROVISIONS AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF

CATTARAUGUS TO IMPOSE AN ADDITIONAL ONE PERCENT SALES AND

COMPENSATING USE TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

SEMPOLINSKI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

188

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07492, RULES REPORT

NO. 806, GALLAHAN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

EXTENDING THE ADDITIONAL ONE PERCENT SALES AND USE TAX FOR CHENANGO

COUNTY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

GALLAHAN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07614, RULES REPORT

189

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

NO. 807, ROMERO, YEGER, STERN, BRAUNSTEIN, BERGER, MAMDANI,

WEPRIN, LAVINE, MCDONALD, SIMPSON, BENDETT, SLATER, BARRETT, PAULIN,

ROZIC, HEVESI, SHIMSKY, GLICK, LEVENBERG, EICHENSTEIN, DURSO,

JENSEN, K. BROWN, NORBER, ZACCARO, KAY. AN ACT TO DIRECT THE

COMMISSIONER OF THE OFFICE OF GENERAL SERVICES TO ERECT A MONUMENT

TO BE KNOWN AS THE "NEW YORK STATE HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL."

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

ROMERO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. ROMERO TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. ROMERO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS

MEMORIAL WILL BE ERECTED TO HONOR THE VICTIMS AND PAY SOLEMN TRIBUTE

TO THOSE WHO SURVIVED THE VIOLENT ATROCITIES OF THE HOLOCAUST. THE

HORRORS AND EVILS THAT THEY WITNESSED IS SOMETHING THAT IS

INCONCEIVABLE TO MOST OF US. IT IS FOR THAT REASON THAT THIS MEMORIAL IS

SO IMPORTANT. IT WILL NOT ONLY FOREVER SERVE AS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE

FOR STUDENTS, FAMILIES AND SURVIVORS AND THEIR FAMILIES, BUT ALSO BE A

PERMANENT REMINDER THAT NEW YORK WILL NOT ALLOW THE WORLD TO FORGET

THIS BARBARIC TIME.

NOW MORE THAN EVER, A MEMORIAL HONORING THOSE THAT

190

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

WERE TARGETED IN THE HOLOCAUST IS ESSENTIAL TO ENSURING THAT THEIR STORIES

ARE NOT FORGOTTEN. THE REALITY IS THAT THE HOLOCAUST WAS A TARGETED AND

SYSTEMIC PERSECUTION OF SIX MILLION JEWISH PEOPLE AND MILLIONS OF

OTHER VULNERABLE PEOPLE. BY PASSING THIS LEGISLATION AND CREATING THIS

MEMORIAL, WE ARE COMMITTING OURSELVES TO A PERMANENT MONUMENT

FOREVER SOLIDIFYING THE MEMORY OF THIS TRAGEDY FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE;

HORRENDOUS AND HORRIBLE AND WICKED, BUT WE ARE ALSO SAYING THAT WE

WILL NEVER FORGET. AND WE COMMIT OURSELVES ALSO TO THE FUTURE. NEVER

AGAIN.

THIS MONUMENT WILL STAND STRONG AND TALL, EDUCATING

FUTURE GENERATIONS, COMBATTING MISCONCEPTIONS AND STANDING UNITED

AGAINST HATE, ANTI-SEMITISM AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF INACTION.

THANK YOU TO THE SPEAKER FOR HIS COMMITMENT TO

JEWISH PEOPLE ACROSS NEW YORK STATE; MY LEGISLATIVE COLLEAGUES IN THE

CAPITAL DISTRICT; DANIEL DEMBLING, PRESIDENT OF THE CAPITAL DISTRICT

JEWISH HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL, INCORPORATED; AND THE JEWISH FEDERATION

OF NORTHEASTERN NEW YORK, ROB KOVACH; AND OTHERS FOR THEIR SUPPORT.

THIS WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT THE PASSIONATE ADVOCACY OF THE LATE

DR. LOZMAN AND HIS UNWAVERING DEDICATING TO PRESERVING JEWISH

VOICES. IT'S AN HONOR TO TAKE ON THIS PROJECT FROM HIS HARD WORK, AND I

ONLY WISH THAT HE WAS ABLE TO SEE THIS COME TO FRUITION.

I HOPE TO HAVE UNANIMOUS SUPPORT ON THIS LEGISLATION,

AND I THANK MY COLLEAGUES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. ROMERO IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

191

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07616, RULES REPORT

NO. 808, PAULIN, LEVENBERG, SLATER, SHIMSKY, ROMERO, MAHER,

MCMAHON, JONES, BRONSON, SIMON, OTIS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATE

FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO CONTRACTING BETWEEN STATE AGENCIES AND

NOT-FOR-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS; AND TO REPEAL SUBDIVISION 7 OF SECTION

179-V OF SUCH LAW RELATING THERETO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PAULIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07665, RULES REPORT

NO. 809, BENDETT. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 556 OF THE LAWS OF 2007

AMENDING THE TAX LAW RELATING TO IMPOSING AN ADDITIONAL REAL ESTATE

TRANSFER TAX WITHIN THE COUNTY OF COLUMBIA, IN RELATION TO THE

192

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BENDETT, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07691, RULES REPORT

NO. 810, BRAUNSTEIN, GRIFFIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY LAW,

IN RELATION TO INCREASING THE PERIOD OF SUPERVISION REQUIRED FOR CERTAIN

REAL ESTATE LICENSE APPLICATIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BRAUNSTEIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

193

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07712, RULES REPORT

NO. 811, SMULLEN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO

EXTENDING THE AUTHORIZATION OF THE COUNTY OF HAMILTON TO IMPOSE AN

ADDITIONAL ONE PERCENT OF SALES AND COMPENSATING USE TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

SMULLEN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07854-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 812, SLATER, MORINELLO, MCDONOUGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE TOWN OF PATTERSON TO IMPOSE A

HOTEL AND MOTEL TAX; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS

UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

SLATER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

194

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07871-C, RULES

REPORT NO. 813, MAHER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN

RELATION TO DEDICATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM TO JACK

BARLETTA.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MAHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. MAHER TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. MAHER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I RISE TO

HONOR AN AMAZING AMERICAN HERO AND MAYBROOK AND TOWN OF

MONTGOMERY RESIDENT, FORMER RESIDENT.

195

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

JACK BARLETTA LEFT HOME TO JOIN THE MILITARY AT THE AGE

OF 19 SHORTLY BEFORE THANKSGIVING IN 1942. ON SEPTEMBER 9, 1943 HE

LED A RECON FORCE IN SALERNO, ITALY, COLLECTING INFORMATION BEFORE THE

INVASION THAT FOLLOWED. HE CONTINUED TO FIGHT IN ITALY UNTIL HE WAS

WOUNDED ON NOVEMBER 15TH. THREE MONTHS LATER, JACK FOUND HIMSELF

IN EASTERN FRANCE. IN ACTION WHILE CARRYING A WOUNDED SOLDIER ON HIS

SHOULDERS, JACK STEPPED ON A LAND MINE. HE SURVIVED AND RECOVERED IN

ENGLAND, THEN STATESIDE IN VIRGINIA BEFORE BEING DISCHARGED IN AUGUST

OF 1945. JACK WAS AWARDED TWO PURPLE HEARTS, A BRONZE STAR, A NORTH

AFRICAN CAMPAIGN MEDAL, A EUROPEAN THEATER CAMPAIGN MEDAL, A

GOOD CONDUCT MEDAL, A NEW YORK STATE WORLD WAR II MEDAL, AN

INFANTRY BADGE AND A CERTIFICATE MEDAL FROM THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT

IN APPRECIATION FOR HIS SERVICE.

AFTER THE WAR, JACK BECAME A LEADER IN THE LOCAL

VETERANS COMMUNITY. IN 1970 AS THE COMMANDER OF THE MAYBROOK

VFW, JACK AND HIS VICE-COMMANDER, KARL HELLER, USED THEIR HOMES

AS COLLATERAL TO SECURE A LOAN TO BUILD A NEW VFW HALL. REALLY

ESTABLISHED THE FIRST HALL. AFTER TWO YEARS AND AN IMMEASURABLE

AMOUNT OF COMMUNITY SUPPORT, THE BUILDING WAS FINISHED WHERE IT

STANDS TODAY.

ACCORDING TO MAYBROOK MAYOR DENNIS LEAHY AND SO

MANY OTHERS, JACK BARLETTA WAS A STAPLE IN THE GREATER MAYBROOK

COMMUNITY FOR DECADES, PROVIDING LEADERSHIP AND SUPPORT TO COUNTLESS

LOCAL FAMILIES AND ORGANIZATIONS.

IN THE TWILIGHT OF HIS LIFE, JACK BARLETTA EXPERIENCED A

196

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

DAY OF HONOR THAT HE AND HIS FAMILY WILL NEVER FORGET, THROUGH THE

HONOR FLIGHT. THAT'S WHERE WE GOT TO KNOW HIM.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU, MR.

MAHER.

MR. MAHER: I'M PROUD OF THIS LEGISLATION AND

THANK THE SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: HOW DO YOU VOTE?

MR. MAHER: I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MAHER IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07884-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 814, FITZPATRICK. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE

TOWN OF SMITHTOWN ASSESSOR TO ACCEPT AN APPLICATION FOR A REAL

PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION FROM TIEGERMAN COMMUNITY SERVICES, INC.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

197

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY A07902-C, RULES REPORT

NO. 815, SMULLEN. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE CITY OF LITTLE

FALLS, IN THE COUNTY OF HERKIMER, TO FINANCE CERTAIN DEFICITS BY THE

ISSUANCE OF BONDS.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

SMULLEN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07935-C, RULES

REPORT NO. 816, DURSO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN

RELATION TO DEDICATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM TO

DETECTIVE THOMAS INMAN.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

DURSO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION. THE CLERK WILL READ THE LAST

198

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07949-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 817, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND

SOCIAL SECURITY LAW AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW

YORK, IN RELATION TO PERMIT SURVIVING SPOUSES OF CERTAIN RETIREMENT PLAN

MEMBERS TO RETAIN CERTAIN BENEFITS UPON REMARRIAGE.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, ON A MOTION -- THE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE

SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE AND FISCAL NOTE.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A07986-A, RULES

199

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

REPORT NO. 818, K. BROWN. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE

CENTERPORT FIRE DISTRICT TO FILE AN APPLICATION FOR EXEMPTION FROM

SCHOOL TAXES AND REAL PROPERTY TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08032-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 819, BRONSON, LEVENBERG, REYES, BURKE, BERGER,

JACOBSON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO CLARIFYING

KEY PROVISIONS AROUND ELEVATOR LICENSING ON EXAMINATIONS AND

EXPERIENCE.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BRONSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

200

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08080-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 820, SLATER, LEVENBERG. AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN

RELATION TO EXTENDING THE ONE PERCENT INCREASED COUNTY SALES TAX FOR

PUTNAM COUNTY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

SLATER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08166-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 821, BURDICK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC

LAW AND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS LAW, IN RELATION TO ESTABLISHING A SCHOOL

SPEED ZONE CAMERA DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM IN THE CITY OF WHITE

PLAINS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION

THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

201

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

BURDICK, THE BILL IS BEFORE THE SENATE [SIC] -- ON A MOTION BY MR.

BURDICK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS -- THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08180-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 822, PALMESANO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC OFFICERS

LAW, PERMITTING YATES COUNTY ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEYS AND ASSISTANT

PUBLIC DEFENDERS TO RESIDE IN CHEMUNG COUNTY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

PALMESANO, THE BILL IS -- THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE

SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

202

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08206, RULES REPORT

NO. 823, WOERNER, SAYEGH. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RACING, PARI-MUTUEL

WAGERING AND BREEDING LAW, IN RELATION TO WELFARE, MEDICAL AND

RETIREMENT PLANS PROVIDED BY A HORSEMEN'S ORGANIZATION IN THE ABSENCE

OF CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

WOERNER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08300, RULES REPORT

NO. 824, MCMAHON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE SURROGATE'S COURT PROCEDURE

ACT, IN RELATION TO THE COMPUTATION AND ALLOCATION OF THE COMMISSIONS

OF TRUSTEES OF CHARITABLE TRUSTS; AND TO REPEAL CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF SUCH

LAW RELATING THERETO.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

MCMAHON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

203

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 60TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08302, RULES REPORT

NO. 825, O'PHARROW. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CIVIL PRACTICE LAW AND

RULES, IN RELATION TO AN AFFIRMATION BY ANY PERSON, WHEREVER MADE, IN A

CIVIL ACTION.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

O'PHARROW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL -- THE

SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

204

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08324, RULES REPORT

NO. 826, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO PROVIDING A HEART DISEASE PRESUMPTION FOR

CERTAIN MEMBERS EMPLOYED AS PROBATION OFFICERS.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE BILL IS -- THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE

SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08354, RULES REPORT

NO. 827, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL

LAW, IN RELATION TO DISABILITIES OF DEPUTY SHERIFFS IN CERTAIN CITIES.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE -- THE SENATE

BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED. HOME RULE

MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

205

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08356, RULES REPORT

NO. 828, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL

LAW, IN RELATION TO DISABILITIES OF DEPUTY SHERIFF MEMBERS OF A

RETIREMENT SYSTEM IN CERTAIN CITIES.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

PLEASE READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08368-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 829, BLUMENCRANZ. AN ACT AUTHORIZING THE COMMISSIONER

OF GENERAL SERVICES TO TRANSFER AND CONVEY CERTAIN STATE LAND TO THE

SYOSSET CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF SUCH

PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

206

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

BLUMENCRANZ, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08408, RULES REPORT

NO. 830, DAIS, DAVILA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE SURROGATE'S COURT

PROCEDURE ACT, IN RELATION TO ALLOWING CERTAIN METHODS FOR SERVICE OF

PROCESS.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

DAIS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

207

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08426, RULES REPORT

NO. 831, COOK. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 548 OF THE LAWS OF 2010,

AMENDING THE NEW YORK CITY CHARTER RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE CITY

OF NEW YORK TO SELL TO ABUTTING PROPERTY OWNERS REAL PROPERTY OWNED

BY SUCH CITY, CONSISTING OF TAX LOTS THAT CANNOT BE INDEPENDENTLY

DEVELOPED DUE TO THE SIZE, SHAPE, CONFIGURATION AND TOPOGRAPHY OF

SUCH LOTS AND THE ZONING REGULATIONS APPLICABLE THERETO, IN RELATION TO

THE EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

COOK, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08427-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 832, LASHER, DINOWITZ, SEAWRIGHT, FORREST, WEPRIN,

SCHIAVONI, STECK, SIMON, SHIMSKY, VALDEZ, GALLAGHER, TORRES, P.

CARROLL, HEVESI, EPSTEIN, R. CARROLL, ROSENTHAL, REYES, ALVAREZ,

RAJKUMAR, BURROUGHS, SIMONE, GLICK, SOLAGES, COLTON, GONZ LEZ-

ROJAS, LUNSFORD, TAPIA, TAYLOR, CUNNINGHAM, O'PHARROW, DE LOS

208

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SANTOS, MITAYNES, CLARK, LEVENBERG, BORES, GIBBS, CRUZ, STIRPE,

WIEDER, PAULIN, MCMAHON, MEEKS, LEE, SHRESTHA, WRIGHT, JACKSON,

BRONSON, CONRAD, ROMERO, BURDICK. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE "FOSTERING AFFORDABILITY AND

INTEGRITY THROUGH REASONABLE (FAIR) BUSINESS PRACTICES ACT."

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

LASHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

LAID ASIDE.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08468, RULES REPORT

NO. 833, GONZ LEZ-ROJAS. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN

RELATION TO DEFINING ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS IN A CITY WITH A POPULATION OF

ONE MILLION OR MORE FOR THE PURPOSES OF REGULATING TOBACCO PRODUCTS,

HERBAL CIGARETTES AND SMOKING PARAPHERNALIA.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

GONZ LEZ-ROJAS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL

IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

209

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08525-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 834, GIGLIO. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 521 OF THE LAWS OF

2001 ESTABLISHING THE RIDGE VOLUNTEER EXEMPT FIREFIGHTER'S

BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION, AND PROVIDING FOR ITS POWERS AND DUTIES, IN

RELATION TO THE USE OF FOREIGN FIRE INSURANCE PREMIUM TAXES.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08544, RULES REPORT

NO. 835, KELLES. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING MACKENZIE M.

COVERT TO RECEIVE CERTAIN SERVICE CREDIT UNDER A 20-YEAR RETIREMENT

PLAN.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

KELLES, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

210

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08550, RULES REPORT

NO. 836, STERN. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 431 OF THE LAWS OF 2018

RELATING TO AUTHORIZING THE STATE COMMISSIONER OF TRANSPORTATION TO

CONVEY REAL PROPERTY TO THE TOWN OF HUNTINGTON, COUNTY OF SUFFOLK, IN

RELATION TO EXTENDING CERTAIN PROVISIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

STERN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08565, RULES REPORT

NO. 837, BRABENEC. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE ASSESSOR OF

THE TOWN OF RAMAPO, COUNTY OF ROCKLAND, TO ACCEPT AN APPLICATION

FOR A REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION FROM LEV TEEN CENTER.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

211

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

BRABENEC, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08572, RULES REPORT

NO. 838, MCMAHON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE FAMILY COURT ACT, IN

RELATION TO ORDERS OF PROTECTION IN CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT PROCEEDINGS

IN FAMILY COURT.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

MCMAHON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. MCMAHON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. MCMAHON: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER, TO

212

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

THIS LEGISLATION ADDRESSES A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN THE

FAMILY COURT ACT WHERE THERE'S A FINDING OR ADMISSION OF ABUSE OR

NEGLECT OF A CHILD BY A PERSON WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE HOUSEHOLD BUT IS

NOT A PARENT OF THAT CHILD. IN THOSE CASES, THE COURT IS CURRENTLY LIMITED

TO IMPOSING A ONE-YEAR ORDER OF PROTECTION. IN CONTRAST, WHERE THE

ABUSER IS A PARENT, THE COURT CAN IMPOSE A TWO-YEAR ORDER, EXTEND IT TO

FIVE YEARS UNDER SPECIFIC AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES.

I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS

WE CAN DO AS A LEGISLATIVE BODY IS TO PROTECT THE MOST VULNERABLE

AMONG US. WITH THIS LEGISLATION, WE MAKE THESE TWO STATUTES

CONSISTENT AND GIVE THE FAMILY COURT JUDGES THE TOOLS THEY NEED TO

BETTER PROTECT THOSE CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO HORRIFIC ABUSE

OR NEGLECT BY A NON-PARENT.

I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR YOUR SUPPORT OF THIS

BILL, AND MY FRIEND, RETIRED FAMILY COURT JUDGE LISA RODWIN, FOR HER

UNWAVERING ADVOCACY FOR THIS LEGISLATION. MR. SPEAKER, I VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: MS. MCMAHON IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I JOIN IN

SUPPORTING THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

WHEN YOU HAVE OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE UNRELATED TO THE CHILD IN THE

HOUSEHOLD, IT'S ALWAYS REALLY TRICKY BECAUSE YOU TRY TO LOOK AT WHETHER

213

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

YOU CAN DEFINE THAT PERSON AS A PLR, OR A PERSON LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE.

SO IF YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY THAT'S NOT RELATED THAT HAS REALLY STEPPED

INTO, LIKE, ALMOST A PARENTAL ROLE, THEN THEY WOULD CONSIDERED A PARENT

FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN ORDER OF PROTECTION. BUT IF MAYBE IT'S A BRAND-

NEW BOYFRIEND OR A ROOMMATE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT'S JUST -- IT'S

KIND OF LIKE NO MAN'S LAND. AND IF THAT PERSON ENDS UP CAUSING HARM

TO THE CHILD, IT WAS A BIG PROBLEM WITH ORDERS OF PROTECTION.

SO THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT. THIS IS -- I'M REALLY GLAD

THAT THIS IS GETTING BROUGHT FORWARD AND I'M REALLY HAPPY TO SUPPORT IT

AGAIN THIS YEAR. HOPEFULLY IT'LL GET REALLY WAY ACROSS THE FINISH LINE THIS

YEAR.

SO, THANKS A LOT. IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: MS. WALSH IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08606, RULE REPORT

NO. 839, BRONSON. AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION LAW AND CHAPTER

416 OF THE LAWS OF 2007 ESTABLISHING THE CITY OF ROCHESTER AND THE

BOARD OF EDUCATION OF THE CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT OF THE CITY OF

ROCHESTER SCHOOL FACILITIES MODERNIZATION PROGRAM ACT, IN RELATION TO

CERTAIN BONDS ISSUED TO FINANCE SCHOOL REHABILITATION OR RECONSTRUCTION

COSTS FOR ROCHESTER SCHOOLS.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

BRONSON, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08609, RULES REPORT

NO. 840, MANKTELOW. AN ACT IN RELATION -- IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING

HEATH A. WADHAMS TO TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATION

FOR THE POSITION OF POLICE OFFICER AND BE PLACED ON THE ELIGIBLE LIST FOR

EMPLOYMENT AS A FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER FOR THE VILLAGE OF PALMYRA.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MANKTELOW, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08610-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 841, WIEDER. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY

OF ROCKLAND TO OFFER AN OPTIONAL TWENTY YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN TO

MATTHEW DONOVAN, A DEPUTY SHERIFF EMPLOYED BY SUCH COUNTY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MR.

WIEDER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08628, RULES REPORT

NO. 842, P. CARROLL. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY OF

ROCKLAND TO OFFER AN OPTIONAL TWENTY YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN TO

JOHN F. LEONARD, JR., A DEPUTY SHERIFF EMPLOYED BY SUCH COUNTY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY

P. CARROLL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

216

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08652, RULES REPORT

NO. 843, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO THE DEFINITION OF OVERTIME CEILING.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY

MS. PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

BILL IS ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08669, RULES REPORT

NO. 844, PHEFFER AMATO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND SOCIAL

SECURITY LAW, IN RELATION TO PERMITTING CERTAIN TWENTY-FIVE YEAR

RETIREMENT PROGRAM DISPATCHER MEMBERS TO FILE ELECTIONS NOT TO

PARTICIPATE.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

BILL IS ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08674, RULES REPORT

NO. 845, PHEFFER AMATO, ROZIC. AN ACT TO AMEND THE RETIREMENT AND

SOCIAL SECURITY LAW AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE OF THE CITY OF NEW

YORK, IN RELATION TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF TWENTY-FIVE YEAR RETIREMENT

PROGRAMS FOR MEMBERS OF THE NEW YORK CITY EMPLOYEES' RETIREMENT

SYSTEM EMPLOYED AS WATER SUPPLY POLICE; AND IN RELATION TO PROVIDING

FOR EMPLOYER PICK UP, PURSUANT TO PROVISIONS OF THE PROVISION OF THE

INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OF CERTAIN ADDITIONAL MEMBER CONTRIBUTIONS

REQUIRED TO BE MADE BY CERTAIN PARTICIPANTS IN THE TWENTY-FIVE YEAR

RETIREMENT PROGRAMS; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS

UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: ON A MOTION BY MS.

PHEFFER AMATO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED. HOME RULE MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER TAYLOR: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ARE THERE ANY OTHER

VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08732-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 846, SMULLEN. AN ACT IN RELATION TO AUTHORIZING MATTHEW

TERPENING TO TAKE THE COMPETITIVE CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATION FOR THE

POSITION OF POLICE OFFICER AND BE PLACED ON THE ELIGIBLE LIST FOR

EMPLOYMENT AS A FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER FOR THE TOWN OF WEBB.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: HOME RULE

MESSAGE IS AT THE DESK.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08774-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 847, BOLOGNA. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 978 OF THE LAWS

219

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

OF 1966 RELATING TO INCORPORATING THE SOUTH LOCKPORT VOLUNTEER

FIREMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION, AND PROVIDING FOR ITS POWERS AND

DUTIES, IN RELATION TO AMENDMENTS TO SUCH ASSOCIATION'S CHARTER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. BOLOGNA, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08802, RULES REPORT

NO. 848, KIM. AN ACT TO AMEND CHAPTER 704 OF THE LAWS OF 1991

AMENDING THE ARTS AND CULTURAL AFFAIRS LAW AND CHAPTER 912 OF THE

LAWS OF 1920 RELATING TO REGULATION OF BOXING AND WRESTLING MATCHES

RELATING TO TICKETS TO PLACES OF ENTERTAINMENT, AND CHAPTER 151 OF THE

LAWS OF 2010 AMENDING THE ARTS AND CULTURAL AFFAIRS LAW RELATING TO

RESALE OF TICKETS TO PLACES OF ENTERTAINMENT, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE

EFFECTIVENESS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. KIM, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

220

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08805, RULES REPORT

NO. 849, BENDETT, MAGNARELLI. AN ACT TO AMEND THE HIGHWAY LAW, IN

RELATION TO DEDICATING A PORTION OF THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM TO FIRE

CHIEF ROBERT BORNT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. BENDETT TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BENDETT: (INDISCERNIBLE) -- SPEAKER, TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. AND THANK YOU, COLLEAGUES, FOR SUPPORTING THIS

LEGISLATION DEDICATING A PORTION OF OUR STATE HIGHWAY TO FIRE CHIEF,

ROBERT BORNT. ROBERT BORNT WAS THE HOOSICK FALLS FIRE CHIEF WHO

PASSED AWAY EARLIER THIS MONTH WHILE WORKING FOR DOT. HE WAS A

DOT MAINTENANCE SUPERVISOR. IT'S LEFT A VOID IN OUR COMMUNITY AND

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

IT'S WONDERFUL THAT WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEMORIALIZE HIM FOR HIS

FAMILY, TO VALIDATE ALL OF HIS FINE SERVICE TO HIS COMMUNITY. I ALSO WANT

TO THANK CHAIRMAN MAGNARELLI AND THE SPEAKER FOR PUSHING THIS

THROUGH.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. BENDETT IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

(APPLAUSE)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08809-B WAS

PREVIOUSLY AMENDED AND IS HIGH.

ASSEMBLY NO. A08842, RULES REPORT NO. 851,

BENEDETTO. AN ACT TO AMEND THE VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC LAW, IN RELATION

TO BUS OPERATION-RELATED TRAFFIC REGULATIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. BENEDETTO, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 90TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08888, RULES REPORT

NO. 852, SIMON --

(PAUSE)

ASSEMBLY NO. A08890, RULES REPORT NO. 853,

BURROUGHS, SOLAGES. AN ACT TO AMEND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURAL LAW, TO

EXPAND JUDICIAL ELIGIBILITY FOR PRESIDING OVER DESIGNATED YOUTH PARTS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. BURROUGHS, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: IF WE CAN NOW GO TO OUR

DEBATE LIST -- BACK TO OUR DEBATE LIST. WE'RE GOING TO GO DIRECTLY TO

RULES REPORT NO. 467 BY MR. LASHER, RULES REPORT NO. 498 BY

MR. EPSTEIN, RULES REPORT NO. 532 BY MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN,

223

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

FOLLOWED BY RULES REPORT NO. 546 BY MR. MAGNARELLI.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 467, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08332, RULES REPORT

NO. 467, LASHER, DE LOS SANTOS, STERN, ROMERO, HEVESI, ROSENTHAL,

OTIS, SCHIAVONI, SIMONE, SEAWRIGHT, RAJKUMAR, R. CARROLL, SHRESTHA,

PAULIN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO THE

ASSESSMENT OF SOLAR OR WIND ENERGY SYSTEMS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY

MR. LASHER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAD BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. LASHER.

MR. LASHER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS

BILL IS A TECHNICAL PIECE OF LEGISLATION TO ADDRESS A COURT CHALLENGE TO A

PREVIOUS ACT OF THE LEGISLATURE. IN 2020, THIS LEGISLATURE ENACTED REAL

PROPERTY TAX LAW 575(B), WHICH REQUIRES MUNICIPALITIES TO ADOPT A

UNFORM APPRAISAL METHODOLOGY FOR WIND AND SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEMS AND

AUTHORIZED THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE TO ESTABLISH SUCH A

METHODOLOGY.

EARLY THIS YEAR, THE SUPREME COURT IN THE COUNTY OF

ALBANY STRUCK DOWN THAT LAW AS DELEGATING IN EXCESS OF AUTHORITY TO

DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE. THIS LEGISLATION WOULD INCORPORATE

THE NECESSARY GUIDANCE AND PARAMETERS INTO THE STATUTE, SO AS TO

ADDRESS THE DELEGATION ISSUE AND TO ALLOW THE PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

WILL OF THE LEGISLATURE TO BE EFFECTUATED.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. BAILEY.

MRS. BAILEY: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME

QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. LASHER: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MRS. BAILEY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER AND

THANK YOU TO THE SPONSOR. REAL QUICK, THE CHANGES THAT WE'RE MAKING

TO THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION IS INDICATING THAT IT'S GOING TO BE MANDATORY

THAT WE USE THE -- THE DISCOUNTED CASH FLOW MODEL WHEN WE'RE LOOKING

AT THE ASSESSMENTS FOR THESE PROJECTS COMING OUT. WE HAVE ADDED IN

THERE, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS GOING TO CONSTITUTE THE EXPENSE, WHAT'S

CONSIDERED REVENUES. SO, I GUESS I WOULD LIKE TO JUST ASK A COUPLE OF

QUESTIONS IN AND AROUND THAT. HOW DID WE COME UP WITH THE -- THE

PIECES, YOU KNOW; SPECIFICALLY, HOST COMMUNITY BENEFIT PAYMENTS?

AND THEN WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT THE DECOMMISSIONING -- THE EXPENSE FOR

DECOMMISSIONING AND THEN THE COMMUNITY SOLAR SUBSCRIBER.

SO, SPECIFICALLY, THE HOST COMMUNITY BENEFIT

PAYMENTS, HOW WAS THAT -- HOW DID WE COME ABOUT ADDING THAT IN AS

AN EXPENSE?

MR. LASHER: THANK YOU. IN A PREVIOUS -- IN THE --

IN THE EARLIER ACT OF THE LEGISLATURE, THIS BODY GAVE BROAD AUTHORITY TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

DTF TO ESTABLISH THE METHODOLOGY AND THIS LEGISLATION MERELY PUTS

INTO STATUTE ASPECTS OF THE METHODOLOGY THAT THEY ESTABLISHED UNDER OUR

AUTHORIZATION; AGAIN, ALL OF WHICH IS SIMPLY TO DEAL WITH THE DELEGATION

ISSUE IDENTIFIED BY THE COURT.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. AND HOW DID WE COME UP

WITH USING HOST COMMUNITY PAYMENTS AS A COST?

MR. LASHER: AGAIN, JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE -- I, AS THE

SPONSOR OF THE LEGISLATION, DID NOT COME UP WITH ANY OF THIS. IT REFLECTS

THE JUDGMENT AND FINDINGS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE

UNDER THE AUTHORIZATION PREVIOUSLY GIVEN TO THEM BY THIS LEGISLATURE.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. AND IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN IN,

AS YOU INDICATED, THE DECISION THAT CAME OUT OF THE SUPREME COURT IN

ALBANY COUNTY WAS THAT THE VERY BROAD BRUSH THAT WE USED IN THE

LEGISLATION PREVIOUSLY, WE NEEDED TO INDICATE WHAT WOULD BE

CONSTITUTED AS EXPENSES AND WHAT WOULD BE CONSTITUTED AS REVENUES;

AM I CORRECT?

MR. LASHER: IN -- IN THE COURT DECISION, THE JUDGE

WROTE THAT THE COURT IS GUIDED BY THE PRINCIPLES LAID OUT BY THE COURT OF

APPEALS IN DEAN V. WHALEN, THE LEGISLATURE MAY CONSTITUTIONALLY

CONFER DISCRETION UPON AN ADMINISTRATIVE AGENCY, ONLY IF IT LIMITS THE

FIELD IN WHICH THAT DISCRETION IS TO OPERATE AND PROVIDES STANDARDS TO

GOVERN THIS EXERCISE. AND WITH THAT IN MIND, THIS LEGISLATION AIMS TO

DO THAT.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. SO, THIS LEGISLATION -- WE ARE

LOOKING AT HOST COMMUNITIES -- THE HOST COMMUNITY AGREEMENTS AS A

226

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

COST? OR IS AT AN EXPENSE, CORRECT?

MR. LASHER: THE COURT FURTHER -- FURTHER

DETERMINED THAT THE LEGISLATURE FAILED TO ENACT REASONABLE SAFEGUARDS

AND STANDARDS IN DIRECTING THE ASSESSMENT OF SOLAR AND WIND ENERGY

SYSTEMS USING THE DISCOUNTED CASH FLOW APPROACH. SO, AGAIN, WE ARE

TRYING TO INSHRINE IN THE STATUTE THOSE SAFEGUARDS AND PARAMETERS THAT

DTF ARRIVED AT UNDER THE AUTHORIZATION WE GAVE THEM PREVIOUSLY.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. AND THE REASON I SPECIFICALLY

ASK ABOUT THAT IS, YOU KNOW, UNDER -- THIS WAS OPEN FOR PUBLIC

COMMENT AND BASED OFF OF THAT PUBLIC COMMENT, I -- I JUST WANT TO READ

SOMETHING AND THEN MAYBE ASK MY QUESTION AGAIN.

(READING) THERE WAS A SMALL HOST COMMUNITY

AGREEMENT EXPENSE EMBEDDED IN THE OPERATING EXPENSES IN THE 2022

MODEL -- AND THIS IS REFERRING TO THE 2024 MODEL -- WHILE ATTEMPTING TO

UPDATE THE DATA FOR THE 2024 MODEL, THE DEPARTMENT DETERMINED THAT

THERE WAS NOT SUFFICIENT SUPPORT FOR THAT EXPENSE. THE DEPARTMENT

DOES NOT CURRENTLY HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO JUSTIFY INCLUDING AN

HCA EXPENSE OF $3 PER KILOWATT, OR ANY OTHER AMOUNT. THE HCA

EXPENSE HAS THEREFORE REMOVED FROM THE MODEL. FURTHER --

FURTHERMORE, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR ASSESSORS TO VERIFY SUCH AN

EXPENSE.

SO MY QUESTION, AGAIN, IS, HOW DID WE COME UP WITH

ADDING THAT IN HERE IF THE RESPONSES BACK FROM THE COMMENTS ON -- ON

THE DEPARTMENT'S WEBSITE IS INDICATING SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT?

MR. LASHER: THE DTF MADE SOME REVISIONS, I

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

BELIEVE, TO THE MODEL, INCLUDING WITH REGARD TO THE TREATMENT OF TAX

CREDITS FOLLOWING THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND THIS LEGISLATION REFLECTS THE

FINAL DETERMINATION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. AS FAR AS DECOMMISSIONING

EXPENSES, WHEN DO DECOMMISSIONING EXPENSES OCCUR?

MR. LASHER: AS I SAID, THIS LEGISLATURE REFLECTS THE

FINAL DETERMINATION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT A

DECOMMISSIONING EXPENSE, WE ARE -- WE ARE TAKING THAT INTO ACCOUNT AT

THE TIME OF ASSESSMENT FOR THESE PROJECTS -- AND IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THE

JUDGE -- OR THE JUSTIFICATION FOR DOING THIS LEGISLATION... (READING) ITS

URGENT TRANSITION TO CLEAN ENERGY AND MEETING AMBITIOUS RENEWABLE

ENERGY GOALS ARE CRUCIAL STEPS IN COMBATTING CLIMATE CHANGE. THE

SCALE AND SEVERITY OF WHICH IS WIDELY KNOWN, THE DEEP -- AND DEEPLY

FELT, WHERE IN NEW YORK STATE INCENTIVIZING AND ENCOURAGING THE

EXPENSES OF WIND AND SOLAR PROJECTS IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE

SOLUTION. YET, THE FINANCIAL VIABILITY OF THESE PROJECTS IS TENACIOUS

BASED ON THE UNRELIABLE APPRAISAL MODEL CURRENTLY EMPLOYED IN NEW

YORK. AND THEN IT GOES ON TO SAY, (READING) THIS UNCERTAINTY

DISINCENTIVIZES INVESTMENTS IN THE SOLAR AND WIND SECTOR, DELAYING

CRITICALLY-NEEDED PROJECTS THAT WILL HELP NEW YORK TRANSITION TO

RENEWABLE ENERGY SOURCES. THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RELIABLE

APPRAISE MODEL WILL FILL IN THESE GAPS AND FURTHER NEW YORK'S PROCESS

TO IT. AND PART OF THE CONCERN IS THAT AT THE TIME THAT THESE -- THESE

POTENTIAL DEVELOPERS OR THESE DEVELOPMENTS ARE COMING INTO AN AREA,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE UNPREDICTABILITY FROM ANY ONE LOCAL MUNICIPALITY WHERE THE

ASSESSORS MAY BE INVOLVED IN THAT, IS LEADING TO HAVING THIS MANDATED

FORMULA. SO, IF WE'RE WORRY -- IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THEM COMING IN, HOW

DID WE TAKE THE DECOMMISSIONING, WHICH COMES AT THE END OF THE

PROJECT, WHICH WE CAN'T ANTICIPATE WHAT THAT EXPENSE IS GOING TO BE AT

THIS TIME, HOW ARE WE ABLE TO UTILIZE THAT AS AN EXPENSE IN THE MODEL

UPON INCEPTION?

MR. LASHER: LOOK, I THINK AS A PRACTICAL MATTER,

THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU'RE RAISING WERE RESOLVED AND ADDRESSED BY THIS

LEGISLATURE IN 2020, AND THIS LEGISLATURE MADE A JUDGMENT THAT A

UNIFORM TAX APPRAISAL METHODOLOGY SERVED THE PUBLIC INTEREST. AND

THERE WAS A NARROW TECHNICAL DEFICIENCY IN THAT LEGISLATION, WHICH WAS

AN EXCESS OF DELEGATION TO THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE. THIS

LEGISLATION AIMS MERELY TO ADDRESS THAT NARROW TECHNICAL DEFICIENCY.

MRS. BAILEY: IN 2020, WHEN -- WHEN THE INITIAL

BILL WAS BROUGHT FORWARD, HOW -- HOW DID THAT COME TO THE FLOOR?

MR. LASHER: I -- I -- IT WAS DULY ENACTED BY THIS

BODY.

MRS. BAILEY: THROUGH THE BUDGET?

MR. LASHER: IT WAS DULY ENACTED BY THIS BODY.

MRS. BAILEY: I BELIEVE IT WAS POLICY THAT WAS

WRITTEN INTO THE BUDGET IN 2021, WHICH HAD A LEGAL BATTLE IN 2022, WENT

BACK TO THE BUDGET IN '23 AND HERE WE ARE IN '25 ON THE FLOOR.

MR. LASHER: ONE -- ONE MIGHT --

(CROSS-TALK)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MRS. BAILEY: (INDISCERNIBLE) --

(CROSS-TALK)

MR. LASHER: -- ONE MIGHT SAY -- ONE MIGHT SAY

THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS ACTED AFFIRMATIVELY ON THIS ISSUE TWICE.

MRS. BAILEY: WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE. AS FAR AS

THE DECOMMISSIONING EXPENSES, I'M GONNA GO BACK TO THAT. IT INDICATES

HERE THE DECOMMISSIONING EXPENSES ARE INCLUDED, ALL THEY -- ALTHOUGH

THEY ARE AT THE END-OF-LIFE EXPENSE, WITH CHANGES IN TECHNOLOGY PANELS

WILL LAST LONGER FOR SOLAR RAYS AND MORE EASILY CHEAPLY REPLACED, THIS

MAY RESULT IN AN INDEFINITE LIFE OF A SOLAR -- SOLAR ARRAYS, IN PARTICULAR.

DECOMMISSIONING SHOULD NOT BE AN EXPENSE. THE RESPONSE TO THAT

WAS, (READING) THE DRAFT MODELS DECOMMISSIONING COSTS WERE

CALCULATED BASED ON SAMPLES OF PROJECTS PROVIDED BY NYSERDA. THE

DEPARTMENT'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE ISSUE IS THAT DECOMMISSIONING COSTS

ARE AN APPROPRIATE EXPENSE FOR THE MAJORITY OF PRODUCTS -- OR PROJECTS.

THE DEPARTMENT HAS NOT PRESENTED WITH -- HAS NOT BEEN PRESENTED WITH

SUFFICIENT DATA TO ADJUST THAT. SO, I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE, IF WE

ARE -- IF WE ARE BRINGING THIS INTO WHAT THE LAW IS GOING TO READ MOVING

FORWARD, WHAT CONSTITUTES -- YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS THE SAMPLE PROJECTS

THAT CAME FORWARD AND WHAT ARE THE MAJORITY OF THESE PROJECTS THAT

WERE -- THAT WERE LOOKED AT?

MR. LASHER: AGAIN, THIS LEGISLATION MERELY

FOLLOWS THE GUIDANCE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE THROUGH

THEIR PROCESS.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. SO, THEN I'M GOING TO GO ON

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

TO COMMUNITY SOLAR SUBSCRIBER MANAGEMENT COSTS. WE'RE USING THAT AS

AN EXPENSE AS WELL, CORRECT?

MR. LASHER: AGAIN, THE -- I AM GOING TO SAY, QUITE

SIMPLY, THAT THIS REFLECTS THE DETERMINATIONS MADE BY THE TAX --

DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE AND MERELY AIMS TO ESTABLISH THE

PARAMETERS TO ADDRESS THE DELIGATION ISSUE THAT THE TRIAL COURT IN ALBANY

IDENTIFIED.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. BUT WE AS LEGISLATORS HAVE

THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DIRECTION THAT WE'RE GIVING IN

THIS -- IN THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION ARE ACCURATE AND WILL BENEFIT ALL NEW

YORKERS; AM I CORRECT IN THAT?

MR. LASHER: I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE LEGISLATURE

DETERMINES THE PUBLIC INTEREST WAS SERVED BY GRANTING A WIDE BERTH TO

THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE; ULTIMATELY DETERMINED BY THE

COURT TO BE SLIGHTLY TOO WIDE. AND SO, WE ARE ADDRESSING THAT WITH THIS

BILL.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. I DO WANT TO GO BACK TO THE --

TO THE COMMUNITY SOLAR SUBSCRIBER MANAGEMENT COST. SO, WHEN THAT

WAS RAISED IN THE 2024 MODEL, IT -- AND IT WAS ARGUED THAT IT SHOULD

INCLUDE THIS EXPENSE, THE RESPONSE WAS, THE DEPARTMENT DID NOT RECEIVE

SUFFICIENT DATA REGARDING SUBSCRIBER ACQUISITIONS, MANAGEMENT OR

REACQUISITION COST TO JUSTIFY INSERTING THOSE EXPENSES IN THE MODEL.

AND HERE WE ARE, INSERTING IT INTO THE MODEL. ALTHOUGH, THE THREE, YOU

KNOW, IT'S SPECIFICALLY INDICATING THAT IT POSSIBLY SHOULD NOT BE; IS THAT

CORRECT?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. LASHER: THE LEGISLATION REFLECTS THE

DETERMINATIONS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. SO, WE CONTINUE TO REFER

BACK TO THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE. I BELIEVE UNDER SECTION

C AND JUST SO I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECT, WHEN IT WAS BROUGHT FORWARD IN

'21 THROUGH THE BUDGET, THEN '23, THE FORMULATION OF THE MODEL AND

DISCOUNT RATE IN NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION AND FINANCE

SHALL CONSULT WITH NEW YORK STATE ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION; IS THAT

ACCURATE?

MR. LASHER: YES.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. PROVIDE FURTHER AND THE

FORMULAZATION [SIC] OF A SUCH A MODEL, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE

DEPARTMENT. SO, HAVE WE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT ANY FEEDBACK FROM THE

ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION?

MR. LASHER: I BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS -- THE

DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE ADHERED TO THE LAW AND DID INDEED

CONSULT WITH THE NEW YORK STATE ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. DO YOU KNOW IF THERE HAVE

BEEN ANY STUDIES DONE OR IF WE HAVE LOOKED AT ANY PROJECTS AS TO, YOU

KNOW, BASED ON THE PROJECT, IF THERE IS CURRENTLY A PILOT IN PLACE, IF WE

WERE TO UTILIZE THIS FORMAL AS IT'S OUTLINED, WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE FOR

ANY ONE PROJECT?

MR. LASHER: SORRY. COULD YOU REPEAT THE

QUESTION?

MRS. BAILEY: SO, WHEN WE'RE -- WHEN WE'RE

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LOOKING AT THIS FORMULATION; SO, HAVE WE LOOKED AT WHAT ANY ONE

MUNICIPALITY, SCHOOLS, LOCAL -- LOCAL TOWNS OR VILLAGES, WHAT THEIR TAX

BASE MIGHT -- OR WHAT THEIR TAXES, REVENUE COMING IN MAY SWITCH BASED

ON THIS FORMULATION?

MR. LASHER: I THINK IF YOU -- I'LL POINT YOU IN THE

DIRECTION OF THE AFFIRMATION OF JOHN WILLIAMS FROM THE TRIAL COURT CASE,

WHO NOTES THAT WITH EVEN -- WITH SUCH COMPLEXITY AND VARIABILITY, EVEN

SMALL CHANGES IN COST HAVE A SIGNIFICANT ON -- AFFECT -- IMPACT ON

PROJECT ECONOMICS AND OBSERVES THE WIDE VARIABILITY OF THE WAY THAT

LOCALITIES MAY GO ABOUT THESE APPRAISALS. AND SO, I DON'T KNOW AND I

DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS ONE PROTOTYPICAL LOCALITY THAT YOU COULD POINT

TO. I THINK THE WHOLE IDEA BEHIND THE LEGISLATURE'S ACTION ON THIS IN

2020 AND AGAIN, WAS TO CREATE A STANDARDIZED METHODOLOGY, BECAUSE

YOU COULD HAVE WILD VARIATION.

MRS. BAILEY: SO, I BELIEVE IN THAT LAW -- IN THE,

YOU KNOW, THE COURT PROCEEDING THAT YOU BROUGHT FORWARD, I THINK THERE

WAS A DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT HAS COME OUT, CORRECT? THAT -- THAT THAT

TOWN --

MR. LASHER: PERTAIN --

MRS. BAILEY: -- THAT TAXING AGENCY --

MR. LASHER: -- AGAIN, PERTAINING TO ONE LOCALITY.

AND I WOULD SAY, AGAIN, THAT YOU WILL FIND SIGNIFICANT VARIATION,

LOCALITY TO LOCALITY, SIGNIFICANT VARIATION IN THE METHODOLOGY OF THE

APPRAISAL, SIGNIFICANT VARIATION IN THE AMOUNT THAT RESULTS. AND THAT IS

THE PURPOSE OF THIS LEGISLATION; TO CREATE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SOMETHING CONSISTENT ACROSS THE STATE. IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE

DONE IN OTHER CONTEXT AND IT'S SOMETHING OTHER STATES HAVE DONE AS

WELL. THAT'S WHY THE LEGISLATURE TOOK ACTION IN 2020. BUT, AGAIN, I

JUST WANT TO STRESS, THESE SUBSTANTIVE QUESTIONS WERE RESOLVED THROUGH

THE LEGISLATURE'S ACTION IN 2020. AND WHAT THIS BILL AIMS TO DO IS

SIMPLY RESOLVE THE ISSUE OF -- I SHOULD NOTE, BY THE WAY, THE LAW WAS

CHALLENGED -- THERE WERE FIVE -- FIVE CAUSE [SIC] OF ACTION IN THE

LAWSUIT, THE AIREY CASE. AND THE ONLY ONE THAT SUCCEEDED WAS THE ISSUE

OF DELEGATION AND THAT IS WHAT THIS BILL AIMS TO ADDRESS.

MRS. BAILEY: CORRECT. AND -- AND YOU'RE REFERRING

TO THE CASE THAT IS CURRENTLY UNDER APPEAL, CORRECT?

MR. LASHER: CORRECT.

MRS. BAILEY: ALL RIGHT. SO, IN THE FORMULA -- AND I

KNOW YOU INDICATED THAT WE ARE JUST IDENTIFYING BASED OFF OF THAT COURT

RULING, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S IN THERE. YOU HAD INDICATED THAT THE

ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION IN -- IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL IS TO BE REFERRED

TO. HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO THE ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION SINCE THIS BILL CAME

FORWARD ON THE 15TH OF MAY?

MR. LASHER: I -- I HAVE NOT PERSONALLY --

MRS. BAILEY: OR THE 13TH?

MR. LASHER: -- I HAVE NOT PERSONALLY SPOKE WITH

THE ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION.

MRS. BAILEY: OKAY. I DID SPEAK WITH THE

ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION AND THEY PUT A MEMORANDUM OUT BASED ON THE

2024 MODEL AND THEY STILL STAND BY THAT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. LASHER: THAT IS -- I --

MRS. BAILEY: WHAT --

MR. LASHER: -- I -- MY FAMILY CONSULTS WITH ME ON

MANY MATTERS. IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ALWAYS LISTEN TO ME.

MRS. BAILEY: I UNDERSTAND. ALL RIGHT.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL. I THANK THE SPONSOR.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MRS. BAILEY: SO THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHY

PUTTING POLICY IN THE BUDGET IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. POLICY SHOULD TAKE THE

PROPER LEGISLATIVE STEPS -- OR THE LEGISLATIVE PATHS. THIS BILL HERE,

BEFORE US TODAY, THAT'S THE STEP THAT IT'S COMING, BUT THIS PIECE OF -- THIS

SECTION OF LAW HAS BEEN TOPIC IN TWO DIFFERENT LAWSUITS THAT COME INTO

QUESTION WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE DOING HERE.

SPECIFICALLY, I MENTION THE ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION.

AND I -- I JUST HAVE -- I WANT TO JUST SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS. FROM THAT

MEMORANDUM FROM THE -- FROM THE NEW YORK STATE ASSESSORS

ASSOCIATION, THESE ARE THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE IN OUR LOCAL

MUNICIPALITIES WHO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TAXING BURDEN IS IN THESE

MUNICIPALITIES AND WHAT IS BEST FOR OUR LOCAL TOWNS AND VILLAGES.

WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT A BROAD BRUSH STATE-MANDATED FORMULA, NEW

YORK STATE WILL BE THE ONLY STATE THAT MANDATES SUCH A CALCULATION FOR

WIND AND SOLAR PROJECTS. AND ARGUABLY, I'M GOING TO SAY IT HAS A

NEGATIVE IMPACT ON OUR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES. THESE PROJECTS ARE

HAPPENING LEFT AND RIGHT IN MY BACKYARD. I'M IN CONTACT WITH OUR

ASSESSORS, I'M IN CONTACT WITH THE DEVELOPERS AND I'M IN CONTACT WITH

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES ON A WHOLE AS TO WHAT THAT MEANS FROM THEIR

TAXING PERSPECTIVE. IN THIS MEMORANDUM, IT INDICATES, (READING)

FURTHER, THE NEW YORK STATE'S DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE

PROVIDES THE MODEL AND DISCOUNT RATES BASED ON DOCUMENTATION

PROVIDED BY INDIVIDUAL DEVELOPERS. HOWEVER, THE LOCAL ASSESSING UNIT

[SIC] OFTEN ARE NOT PROVIDED THE DOCUMENTATION THE STATE WILL USE TO

DETERMINE THE MODEL IN DISCOUNT RATES. THIS PUTS LOCAL ASSESSING UNITS

IN A DIFFERENT PLACE AND UNABLE TO CONFIRM THE DATA AND DISCOUNT RATES

THAT ARE RECEIVING -- THEY ARE RECEIVING FROM THE STATE. FURTHER, THERE IS

NO PROCESS TO VERIFY THE ACCURACY OF THE DATA TO -- SO RECEIVED. NEW

YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION AND FINANCE IS ASKING ASSESSORS

WITH NO VERIFICATION OR ABILITY TO CONFIRM OR VALIDATE AND BLINDLY ACCEPT

INFORMATION FROM EACH SOLAR AND WIND DEVELOPER AND LIKELY WILL BE

SELF-SERVING TO ENSURE LOWER ASSESSMENTS. FOR THE MODEL TO WORK,

THERE NEEDS TO BE MANDATORY REPORTING TO THE NEW YORK STATE

DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE AND LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES, AS WELL AS A

MECHANISM TO ENFORCE DISCLOSURE AGAINST ANY DEVELOPER THAT IS

PROVIDING FAULTY INFORMATION OR NO INFORMATION AT ALL.

IT GOES ON FURTHER TO STATE THAT, (READING) UNDER THE

STATUTE CALLING FOR SOLAR AND WIND MODEL, NEW YORK STATE ASSOCIATION

OF ASSESSORS WAS MANDATED TO BE PART OF THE PROCESS. SO, THEREFORE,

THEY WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE THIS MEMORANDUM. ALTHOUGH THEIR POSITION

IS THAT THIS MANDATE VIOLATES THE ASSESSOR'S CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY TO VALUE

OUR PROPERTY IN THEIR MUNICIPALITIES, THE NEW YORK STATE ASSOCIATION

OF ASSESSORS STRONGLY URGES THE NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

TAXATION AND FINANCE AND NYSERDA TO REVIEW A SCHEDULE THAT THEY

HAVE PROVIDED. AND THAT SCHEDULE OUTLINES THE PROPER METHOD FOR

CALCULATING A WEIGHTED AVERAGE OF COST OF CAPITAL. THE RENEWABLE

ENERGY GOALS OF THE STATE CAN BE MET THROUGH FURTHER DISCUSSION,

INFORMATION SHARING AND GUIDANCE FROM EXPERT APPRAISERS. LET'S NOT

CREATE A MODEL THAT FAVORS THE INDUSTRY AT THE EXPENSE OF THE AVERAGE

NEW YORK STATE TAXPAYER, BUT RATHER WORK TOGETHER TO CREAT -- TO CREAT

METHODOLOGY THAT RELATES TO A MORE ACCURATE VALUE FOR SOLAR AND WIND

PROJECTS. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE HERE. WE HAVE A

METHODOLOGY THAT IS GOING TO FAVOR THE DEVELOPMENT COMING IN OF THE

SOLAR AND WIND.

IT WAS STATED EARLIER WHEN WE WERE DISCUSSING A BILL,

THAT YOU AND I ARE PAYING FOR THEIR PROPERTY TAXES AS WELL WHEN IT WAS

DISCUSSED ABOUT UTILITIES. THIS HERE IS JUST AN EXCLAMATION POINT AT THE

END OF THAT STATEMENT. IT IS OUR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES WHO ARE THE ONES

WHO ARE GOING TO LOSE OUT. IT'S OUR SCHOOLS. IT'S OUR LOCAL FIRE

DEPARTMENTS. IT'S OUR LOCAL EMS THAT RELY ON THIS TAX BASE. THREE

MILLION DOLLARS WAS THE DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT WAS MENTIONED IN THE

LAWSUIT THAT'S COMING OUT OF ALBANY COUNTY THAT IS CURRENTLY IN THE

APPELLATE COURT. THERE HAVE BEEN ESTIMATES ON SOME -- ON SOME

PROJECTS THAT COULD BE IN THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON AN ANNUAL

BASIS. UPWARDS FOR THE STATE, IT'S GOING TO BE IN THE MILLIONS, TENS OF

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF POTENTIALLY LOST TAX REVENUE TO OUR LOCAL

MUNICIPALITIES. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT IS OUR SCHOOL [SIC] AND OUR

RESIDENTS WHO ARE GOING TO LOSE FROM THIS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THEREFORE, MADAM SPEAKER, I APPRECIATE THE TIME. I

WILL BE VOTING NO ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE

ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES TO REALLY STOP AND LOOK AT HOW THIS IS GOING TO

IMPACT YOUR LOCAL MUNICIPALITY AND I URGE YOU TO VOTE NO AS WELL.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. TAGUE.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. LASHER: CERTAINLY, MR. TAGUE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MR. LASHER. I APPRECIATE

IT. FIRST OF ALL, FIRST QUESTION: DO YOU HAVE ANY SOLAR FARMS IN YOUR

DISTRICT?

MR. LASHER: WE -- I -- NOT SOLAR FARMS. NO.

MR. TAGUE: OKAY. WELL, I DO AND I THINK THERE ARE

A LOT OF RURAL -- OTHER RURAL MEMBERS IN THIS BODY THAT HAVE THEM AS

WELL. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ACRES OF PRODUCTIVE, GOOD FARMLAND HAS

BEEN USED UP FOR PROJECTS LIKE THIS?

MR. LASHER: YOU KNOW, WE WERE DISCUSSING IT THE

OTHER DAY. I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER. BUT I -- I --

MR. TAGUE: ABOUT A HALF-MILLION.

MR. LASHER: -- BUT I KNOW IT'S SIGNIFICANT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. TAGUE: HALF A MILLION ACRES OF PRODUCTIVE

FARMLAND. I CAN'T -- NOTHING ELSE CAN BE DONE ON THIS FARMLAND. EVERY

SINGLE TIME WE GO TO DO PROJECTS LIKE THIS, WHERE DOES IT COME? RURAL

UPSTATE NEW YORK. RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK. WITHOUT ASKING US IF

IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WANT, WITHOUT ALLOWING OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS

OR OUR LOCAL PEOPLE TO HAVE A SAY IN THE ACTION. PEOPLE FROM NEW YORK

CITY AND IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND NYSERDA JUST DECIDED THAT

THEY WERE GOING TO SITE THESE PROJECTS IN THE PLACE -- IN THE BREADBASKET

OF NOT ONLY NEW YORK STATE, BUT OF OUR COUNTRY WHERE OUR FOOD IS

GROWN.

AND I WOULD SAY TO YOU, MR. LASHER, I DARE SAY THAT

NEITHER YOU AND I COULD LIVE WITHOUT FOOD; AM I CORRECT?

MR. LASHER: CERTAINLY.

MR. TAGUE: SO THE COURT HAS INVALIDATED THE

UNDERLYING LAWS UNCONSTITUTIONAL DELEGATION OF TAXING AUTHORITY, AN

ENCROACHMENT ON THE TRADITIONAL AUTHORITY OF LOCAL ASSESSING UNITS, A

DECISION THAT AS WE HAVE JUST TALKED ABOUT, HAS BEEN APPEALED. SO, LET

ME ASK YOU THIS.

(CROSS-TALK)

MR. LASHER: CAN I JUST --

MR. TAGUE: -- WHY ARE WE TAKING THIS BILL UP

BEFORE THE LEGAL PROCESS REACHES A CONCLUSION?

MR. LASHER: MR. TAGUE, I -- I DO HAVE TO, IF I,

RESPECTFULLY, MAY JUST POINT OUT THAT THE -- THE COURT -- THE COURT'S

DECISION HINGED ENTIRELY ON THE ISSUE OF DELEGATION TO THE DEPARTMENT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

OF TAX AND FINANCE, NOT ON THE ISSUE OF ENCROACHMENT ON THE LOCAL

ASSESSORS.

MR. TAGUE: ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS,

THEN. AND I WILL LET YOU KNOW, MR. LASHER, MR. AIREY IS ACTUALLY A

VERY CLOSE, PERSONAL FRIEND OF MINE. HE COMES FROM MY HOME COUNTY.

HE'S A TOWN SUPERVISOR IN -- IN ONE OF THE TOWNS. SO, DOES THIS BILL

UNDERMINE THE AIREY V. STATE OF NEW YORK RULING BY, ONCE AGAIN,

ALLOWING THE STATE TO PRESCRIBE A SPECIFIC VALUATION MODEL WITHOUT

SUFFICIENT LEGISLATIVE GUIDANCE?

MR. LASHER: I -- I DON'T THINK IT -- IT UNDERMINES

THE TRIAL COURT'S DECISION. I THINK IT ADDRESSES THE TECHNICAL ISSUE

IDENTIFIED BY THE TRIAL COURT, WHICH IS A DELEGATION TO -- WHICH IS A -- AN

EXCESS OF DELEGATION TO DTF. AND BY INCLUDING IN THE STATUTE MORE

SPECIFICITY ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH EXPENSES AND REVENUE, IT ADDRESSES

THE DELEGATION ISSUE. I DON'T THINK IT UNDERMINES OR IS IN ANY WAY A

CROSS PURPOSE WITH THE COURT'S DECISION. IT SIMPLY ADDRESSES THE ISSUE

THE COURT FOUND -- A FLAW THAT THE COURT FOUND WITH THE LAW.

MR. TAGUE: LET ME ASK YOU THIS, TOO. AND YOU

AND I COME FROM WAY TWO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE -- OF THE WORLD,

SO-TO-SPEAK, IN THE SAME STATE. BUT DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH IT

COSTS TO RUN A VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANY OR A VOLUNTEER EMS OR A TOWN,

VILLAGE OR COUNTY HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT WITHIN A VERY RURAL AREA WHERE

SOME OF THESE -- SOME OF THESE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS ARE COVERING 25,

30 MILES IN SOME OF THE ROUGHEST TERRAIN POSSIBLE? DO YOU KNOW HOW

MUCH IT COSTS IN OUR SMALL LOCAL GOVERNMENTS -- AND I'LL -- I'LL GIVE YOU

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

A PERFECT EXAMPLE. IN SCHOHARIE COUNTY THERE'S 30,000 PEOPLE.

THERE'S PROBABLY 30,000 PEOPLE THAT LIVE ON THE BLOCK WHERE YOU LIVE.

MR. LASHER: I THINK, MR. TAGUE, I -- I WOULD SAY I

APPROACH THIS CONVERSATION WITH AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF HUMILITY AS TO

THE POLICY ISSUES THAT YOU AND I WERE DISCUSSING THE OTHER DAY WITH

REGARD TO THE BALANCE BETWEEN ENSURING THE VIABILITY OF OUR AGRICULTURAL

SECTOR, THE REVENUE CHALLENGES ASSOCIATED WITH THE LOSS OF IT, THE

ECONOMIC CHALLENGES, AND THE NEED TO PROMOTE RENEWABLE ENERGY.

THESE ARE TOUGH POLICY QUESTIONS. I WILL SAY, HOWEVER, THAT THIS BILL IS

NOT A -- AN ENERGY POLICY BILL. IT IS CERTAINLY NOT AN AGRICULTURAL POLICY

BILL. IT IS A TECHNICAL FIX ON A -- ON A REAL ESTATE [SIC] PROPERTY TAX

LAW THAT WAS PASSED FIVE YEARS AGO.

MR. TAGUE: BUT WOULDN'T YOU ADMIT TO ME HERE

AMONGST ALL OUR COLLEAGUES THAT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, AND ALONG

WITH EVERY OTHER PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT FITS IN WITH THIS ACTUAL

PROGRAM IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE PEOPLE OF RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK? AND

LET ME JUST -- AND LET ME JUST FOLLOW UP BY SAYING WHAT'S EVEN MORE OF

A CONCERN IS WE'RE PUTTING THESE PROJECTS UP EVERYWHERE, AND OF COURSE

THEY WANT TO PUT THEM WHERE THE BEST PRODUCTIVE GROWING FIELDS THAT

WE HAVE IN RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK. AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE

KICKER IS? NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN ANY OF THOSE COMMUNITIES ARE

BENEFITTING FROM THESE PROJECTS. THAT -- THAT, SIR, IS THE SHAME OF THIS

WHOLE THING. THE SHAME.

MR. LASHER: I WOULD SAY, MR. TAGUE, THAT I THINK

YOU ARE PERHAPS NOT GIVING DUE TO THE ECONOMIC FLEXIBILITY THAT IT

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AFFORDS TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS. BUT I SAY THAT WITH SOME, AGAIN,

HUMILITY AND WOULD JUST OBSERVE THAT THIS BILL IS A -- AGAIN, IS A

TECHNICAL FIX TO AN ISSUE OF -- OF DELEGATION, WHICH IS A CONSTITUTIONAL

ISSUE AND DOESN'T REALLY GET AT THESE POLICY QUESTIONS THAT, AGAIN, I --

I'M LEARNING FROM YOU AND I HOPE TO CONTINUE TO DO SO. BUT THAT'S NOT

REALLY AT ISSUE IN THIS BILL.

MR. TAGUE: WELL, I -- I APPRECIATE THAT AND I

RESPECT -- I RESPECT THE OPPORTUNITY THAT YOU AND I HAD TO TALK THE OTHER

DAY, AND I RESPECT YOU AND -- AND I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION WE'RE

HAVING. BUT WHEN YOU COME FROM A HOMETOWN LIKE I DO, A PLACE THAT

AT ONE TIME WAS FULL OF DAIRY FARMS AND CROP FIELDS AND THEY'RE TURNING

INTO NOTHING BUT SOLAR ARRAYS. AND ONE THING THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT'S

A PROBLEM, YEAH, THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE BENEFITTING BUT GUESS WHAT?

NONE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE THE ORIGINAL PROPERTY OWNERS BECAUSE

PEOPLE FROM THE CITY AND OTHER STATES FIGURED OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON,

CAME INTO THE COMMUNITY AND BOUGHT UP THE PROPERTY AND THEY'RE THE

ONES THAT ARE BENEFITTING. BUT THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE NEXT TO IT THAT JUST

BUILT A BRAND-NEW HOUSE TEN YEARS AGO OR FIVE YEARS AGO, THEY'RE NOT

BENEFITTING. THEIR TAXES ARE NOW ACTUALLY GONNA GET RAISED BECAUSE

WE'RE GIVING THESE OTHER FOLKS A BREAK. OKAY? AND WHEN THEY BOUGHT

THEIR HOUSE OR BUILT THEIR HOUSE, THEY NEVER THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS

GONNA BE A SOLAR FARM AROUND IT. THEY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE

FARMER GOING OUT THERE WITH HIS HAYBINE AND CUTTING 50 ACRES OF HAY OR

GOING OUT THERE WITH A COMBINE AND CUTTING 50 ACRES OF CORN. BUT WHAT

THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IS WITH THESE SOLAR FARMS, AND THEY'RE NOT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

GETTING ONE DARN BENEFIT. NOT ONE DARN BENEFIT.

ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. TAGUE: YOU KNOW, I STOOD HERE WHEN THE

ORIGINAL BILL-IN-CHIEF ON THIS WHOLE PROGRAM WAS PASSED. I DEBATED MY

-- MY GOOD COLLEAGUE FROM LONG ISLAND; IT WAS A BUDGET BILL. THE

GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK AT THE TIME AND NYSERDA

PUSHED THIS BILL THROUGH IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT DURING BUDGET

SEASON. TOOK ALL THE POWER AWAY FROM LOCAL LEADERS; FROM EVERY

SINGLE LOCAL LEADER FROM TOWNS BOARDS, COUNTY BOARDS. TOOK IT AWAY

FROM EVERYBODY, AND THEY WERE GONNA PICK OUT WHERE THESE PROJECTS

WERE SITED. AND IT JUST SO HAPPENS, RIGHT IN THE BREADBASKET, THE

BREADBASKET OF THE REVOLUTION. BIG TIME IN SCHOHARIE COUNTY -- MY

HOMETOWN -- AND EVERYWHERE AROUND IT. I BET YOU THERE'S RURAL

MEMBERS HERE TONIGHT THAT HAVE ONE OF THESE PROJECTS OR PROPOSED

PROJECTS COMING UP IN THEIR -- IN THEIR DISTRICT. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON,

NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IS BENEFITTING FROM THIS PROJECT. AS A MATTER OF

FACT, I'VE HAD PEOPLE FROM NYSERDA COME TO ME ANONYMOUSLY AND

SAY, MR. TAGUE, YOU GOT TO HELP US. THIS THING IS A MESS. THE LEFT

HAND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT HAND'S DOING. I BEGGED THE NIGHT I

DEBATED THIS BILL TO GET AG AND MARKETS INVOLVED. NO, THEY DIDN'T

WANNA HEAR THAT. THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR THAT. LET'S NOT HAVE THE

COMMISSIONER OF AGRICULTURE THAT KNOWS BETTER THAN ANYBODY WHERE

OUR FOOD COMES FROM HELP MAKE A DECISION ON WHERE WE'RE GONNA DO

THIS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE PROBLEM IS THIS WHOLE THING WASN'T THOUGHT OUT.

IT WASN'T THOUGHT OUT. IT WAS A BIG RUSH. WE GOT THE CLCPA AND WE'RE

GONNA SAVE THE WORLD. WHAT YOU'RE DOING EVENTUALLY IS GOING TO STARVE

PEOPLE. YOU'RE TAKING ALL THE PROSPECTS FOR RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK TO

ACTUALLY FEED PEOPLE. YOU'RE TAKING OUR LAND AWAY. I SAID EARLIER,

HALF-A-MILLION ACRES. THAT'S JUST WHAT I KNOW. IT COULD BE UPWARDS OF

750,000, AND IF WE KEEP GOING IT COULD BE OVER A MILLION. UNLESS YOU

GUYS ARE GONNA START GROWING 1,000 ACRES OR BETTER OF CORN IN

MANHATTAN, WE GOT A SERIOUS PROBLEM ON OUR HANDS.

AND I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW, THIS ISN'T A REPUBLICAN

OR DEMOCRAT ISSUE. THIS IS AN ISSUE OF WHETHER WE LOVE OUR STATE THE

WAY IT IS. WE HAVE THE METROPOLITAN AREA. WE HAVE THE SUBURBS. AND

THEN WE'VE GOT RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK. WE ALL DO OUR PART TO MAKE

THIS STATE GO. BUT IF YOU CONTINUE TO COME INTO OUR RURAL AREA THAT'S

BEAUTIFUL, WHERE WE HAVE TOURISM, WHERE WE HAVE AGRICULTURE, AND YOU

CONTINUE TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM US, WE'RE GONNA BE NOTHING. WE'RE

GONNA BE NOTHING.

MY FRIENDS, THIS WAS A BAD BILL WHEN IT WAS IN THE

BUDGET. IT'S A BAD BILL LAST YEAR AND IT'S A WORSE BILL THIS YEAR. I'VE

HEARD MANY TIMES THAT EVERYBODY NEEDS TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE,

EVERYONE NEEDS TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE. SO WE HAVE THESE LARGE

CORPORATIONS COMING IN AND THEY'RE ASKING FOR A TAX BREAK. MY

NEIGHBOR ISN'T GETTING A TAX BREAK. THE GUY NEXT TO HIM ISN'T GETTING A

TAX BREAK. AND WE SURE AS HELL SHOULDN'T GIVE A TAX BREAK TO SOMEBODY

THAT'S NOT GONNA BENEFIT OUR COMMUNITY.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SO IF YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT ALL OF NEW YORK STATE AND

EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS STATE, YOU WILL VOTE NO. YOU WILL STAND UP

TO THE LARGE CORPORATIONS, YOU WILL STAND UP TO THE GOVERNOR AND

NYSERDA AND TELL THEM TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER. IF NOT AND YOU ARE A

RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK LEGISLATOR, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF

IF YOU VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS.

MADAM SPEAKER, I VOTE NO. THIS IS A BAD BILL,

SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE CAME TO THE FLOOR. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: YES, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. LASHER: SURE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MR. LASHER. I THINK

MY COLLEAGUES COVERED MOST OF THE QUESTIONS, BUT I JUST KIND OF WANT TO

TOUCH ON A COUPLE, IF I MAY. SO THIS OBVIOUSLY SETS THE VALUATION SO

THAT THE NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE WILL

DETERMINE THE VALUATION OF THESE SOLAR ASSESSMENTS AND WIND

ASSESSMENTS, CORRECT? THAT'S HOW -- THAT'S INTENTION WITH THIS BILL, TO

KIND OF CODIFY THAT; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. LASHER: IT CREATES THE -- IT CREATES A

STANDARDIZED METHODOLOGY FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION AND

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FINANCE.

MR. PALMESANO: CREATED BY THE STATE TAX AND

FINANCE. SO LIKE RIGHT NOW I KNOW IN MY DISTRICT, OUR -- MY LOCAL IDA

NEGOTIATES WITH THE LOCAL DEVELOPS [SIC] --

MR. LASHER: YES.

MR. PALMESANO: -- WITH THE WIND, SOLAR. THEY

GO IN AND JUST HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS. IS THAT STILL (INDISCERNIBLE)

PROCESS?

MR. LASHER: NOTHING IN THIS LEGISLATION WOULD

PRECLUDE A LOCALITY FROM NEGOTIATING A PILOT AGREEMENT.

MR. PALMESANO: BECAUSE -- AND YOU -- I THINK

YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ME THAT A LOCAL IDA, WHEN THEY'RE NEGOTIATING

THEY LOOK OUT FOR THE BEST INTEREST OF THE LOCALITY, CORRECT? IS THAT A FAIR

ASSESSMENT, WOULD YOU SAY?

MR. LASHER: I THINK THAT NOTHING IN THIS LEGISLATION

WOULD PRECLUDE AN IDA --

MR. PALMESANO: NO, I --

MR. LASHER: -- OR LOCALITY FROM NEGOTIATING A

PILOT AGREEMENT.

MR. PALMESANO: I -- I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT LET'S

SAY THE DEVELOPERS WORKING WITH THE LOCAL IDA AND THE IDA WHO IS

REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF THE LOCALITY. WHAT IF, SAY, THE IDA BRINGS

A PROPOSAL TO THE DEVELOPERS AND THE DEVELOPERS DON'T LIKE IT AND THEY

SAY, I CAN GO AND GET A BETTER DEAL GOING TO THE STATE. THERE'S NOTHING

STOPPING THAT DEVELOPER FROM SAYING, I'M SORRY, IDA, MR. LOCAL IDA.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

WE WANNA GO DEAL WITH THE STATE AND GET A BETTER VALUATION. THEY CAN

DO THAT, RIGHT? NOTHING PRECLUDES THEM FROM DOING THAT UNDER THIS BILL,

RIGHT?

MR. LASHER: THE IDEA HERE IS TO HAVE A CONSISTENT,

FAIR METHODOLOGY THAT CAN BE RELIED UPON ACROSS THE STATE. BUT AGAIN,

NOTHING PRECLUDES A DEVELOPER FROM WORKING SOMETHING OUT WITH AN

IDA. A DEVELOPER MAY SEE IT, I WOULD IMAGINE, AS IN THEIR INTEREST AND

WORTH PERHAPS A PREMIUM TO HAVE COME TO TERMS WITH THE IDA AS

OPPOSED TO PERHAPS THE SLIGHTLY MORE --

MR. PALMESANO: RIGHT.

MR. LASHER: -- THE OTHER ROUTE.

MR. PALMESANO: AND I -- I APPRECIATE YOU SAYING

THAT. AND I DO RECOGNIZE NOTHING PRECLUDES THE IDA FROM WORKING OUT

A NEGOTIATION WITH THE DEVELOPER. BUT JUST -- I'LL REPEAT MY QUESTION.

THERE'S NOTHING STOPPING THE DEVELOPER IF HE DOESN'T LIKE THE DEAL THAT

THE IDA HAS CREATED, HE COULD GO THE ROUTE OF THE STATE AND LET STATE

TAX AND FINANCE WORK THROUGH THAT EVALUATION IF HE FEELS HE CAN GET A

BETTER DEAL, HE CAN SAVE MORE MONEY BY DOING IT, RIGHT? THAT -- IS THAT

A CORRECT STATEMENT?

MR. LASHER: THAT -- THAT'S ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING

THE SAME THING, I THINK, WOULD --

MR. PALMESANO: OKAY.

MR. LASHER: -- BE THAT IF AN IDA WAS ASKING FOR AN

EXORBITANT AND UNREASONABLE AND ARBITRARY DEMAND, THAT THE DEVELOPER

WOULD HAVE AVAILABLE TO THE DEVELOPER A FAIR AND RELIABLE SYSTEM FROM

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THE STATE.

MR. PALMESANO: SURE. I CAN -- I CAN APPRECIATE

THAT.

SO I KNOW YOU SAID THIS HAS NOTHING DO WITH ENERGY

POLICY, IT'S A TECHNICAL FIX. BUT IS IT A FAIR QUESTION TO ASK THAT THE

REASON WE'RE DOING THIS IS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE THE CLCPA IN

PLACE, THERE'S A CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL PLAN THAT SAYS WE NEED SO

MUCH DEVELOPMENT OF SOLAR AND WIND, AND BECAUSE WE HAVE TO HAVE

THAT DEVELOPMENT OF SOLAR AND WIND WE NEED -- WE NEED TO ADDRESS THIS

PART THAT'S OUT IN THE QUESTION? SO ISN'T THAT A FAIR -- THAT -- SO EVEN

THOUGH IT'S NOT AN ENERGY POLICY IT'S -- IT'S HERE TO ADDRESS THE ENERGY

POLICY THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT -- WHEN IT RELATES TO

SOLAR AND WIND, WHICH ARE RENEWABLE ENERGY, CORRECT? IS THAT FAIR?

MR. LASHER: I THINK IT IS A PRACTICAL SOLUTION TO THE

FACT THAT LOCALITIES OFTEN ARE PERHAPS NOT THE BEST EQUIPPED. THESE ARE

COMPLICATED, RELATIVELY NEW WAYS OF ASSESSING --

MR. PALMESANO: SURE.

MR. LASHER: -- VALUE, AND THIS CREATES AN EVEN AND

RELIABLE BASIS TO DO IT AROUND THE STATE. AND I SHOULD NOTE, BY THE WAY,

BECAUSE IT WAS SAID EARLIER THAT WE WERE SOMEHOW UNIQUE. AND I

SHOULD JUST NOTE THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STATES, INCLUDING VERMONT

AND IOWA AND MINNESOTA AND COLORADO AND ILLINOIS, THAT HAVE SIMILARLY

ESTABLISHED CENTRALIZED TAXATION OF RENEWABLE ENERGY SYSTEMS.

MR. PALMESANO: SURE. I -- I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.

SO, RECOGNIZING THAT WE DO NEED MORE SOLAR AND WIND

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DEVELOPMENT, AND I KNOW THIS IS GONNA BE PART OF IT FOR THE ASSESSMENT,

DO YOU UNDERSTAND -- DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THE CLIMATE ACTION

COUNCIL PLAN CALLED FOR FOR SOLAR DEVELOPMENT AS PART OF THEIR

RECOMMENDATIONS? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA?

MR. LASHER: I -- I DO NOT KNOW THE NUMBER

OFFHAND.

MR. PALMESANO: IT'S 60 GIGAWATTS OF SOLAR. DO

YOU KNOW HOW MANY ACRES OF LAND IT TAKES PER MEGAWATT OF SOLAR?

MR. LASHER: I DO NOT.

MR. PALMESANO: EIGHT ACRES OF LAND. DO YOU

KNOW HOW MANY ACRES OF LAND THAT IS FOR 60 GIGAWATTS? 480,000 ACRES

OF LAND. DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT LAND IS GONNA BE USED FROM IN OUR

STATE? WHERE ARE THEY GONNA GO? THEY'RE GONNA GO TO UPSTATE NEW

YORK, RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT GONNA GO TO NEW YORK CITY. DOUBTFUL THEY'LL

BE IN LONG ISLAND. BUT IT'S GONNA BE IN UPSTATE NEW YORK, THE RURAL

AREAS, CORRECT?

MR. LASHER: YOU KNOW --

MR. PALMESANO: IS THAT A FAIR -- IS THAT A FAIR

ASSESSMENT?

MR. LASHER: MY HOPE IS THAT WE HAVE A LOT MORE

SOLAR IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK, MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: WELL, I THINK I'D RATHER SEE IT IN

NEW YORK CITY THAN IN UPSTATE NEW YORK, BECAUSE ESPECIALLY WITH

OUR FARMLAND. I KNOW THE REAL -- AND MY COLLEAGUE TOUCHED ON THIS,

AND I KIND OF JUST WANT TO REITERATE THAT -- THIS POINT. THERE -- THE STATE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ASSOCIATION OF -- ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY SAID IS

THE TAX CREDITS, THE INCENTIVES TO BUILD THE SOLAR, THESE ARE NOT INCLUDED

IN THE CASH FLOW, BUT THE -- ALL THE EXPENDITURES, INCLUDING

DECOMMISSION, ARE. SO FROM THEIR ARGUMENT YOU CAN'T GET A PROPER

ASSESSMENT WHEN YOU'RE -- WHEN YOU'RE DOING THAT. WHY -- AGAIN, I

GUESS, WOULD -- WOULD THOSE TAX CREDITS BE REMOVED FROM THE -- FROM

THE CASH FLOW AND THE REVENUE?

MR. LASHER: THE -- THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT

THE TAX CREDITS WOULD BE TREATED AS INTANGIBLE ASSETS OR AS REVENUE, THAT

WAS A -- THAT WAS A QUESTION THAT DTF WRESTLED WITH IN THEIR PROCESS.

THERE ARE -- THERE IS A QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE STATE

CONSTITUTION WOULD PROHIBIT THAT TAXATION OF -- OF THOSE -- OF THOSE TAX

CREDITS. BUT IN THE END, AS A POLICY JUDGMENT, DTF DECIDED TO TREAT THE

TAX CREDITS AS INTANGIBLE ASSETS AND THAT IS HOW -- THAT IS WHAT THIS

LEGISLATION FOLLOWS.

MR. PALMESANO: SURE. AND JUST GETTING BACK, I

KNOW IT'S NOT AN ENERGY POLICY BUT IT IS THE ASSESSMENT (INDISCERNIBLE).

CERTAINLY, YOU CAN -- I'M SURE YOU CAN SENSE THE FRUSTRATION IN THE

QUESTIONS AND OUR POSITION AND WHY THE FRUSTRATION IS BECAUSE OF LOCAL

CONTROL BEING TAKEN AWAY AND THAT -- AND THAT'S WHETHER IT'S FROM THE --

WHETHER IT'S FROM THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS TO NOW THE ASSESSMENT

PROCESS, AND ALL THIS LAND -- THIS IS ALL ON UPSTATE LAND, A LOT OF

FARMLAND. YOU CAN -- I CERTAINLY CAN APPRECIATE AND UNDERSTAND THE

FRUSTRATION THAT MANY OF US HAVE WITH THIS POLICY THAT WAS PASSED AS

PART OF THE BUDGET AND MOVING IT FORWARD. YOU CAN UNDERSTAND -- I

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MEAN, IS IT FAIR TO SAY YOU CAN AT LEAST UNDERSTAND OUR FRUSTRATION IN THIS

AND HAVING ENOUGH (INDISCERNIBLE) --

MR. LASHER: WHAT I'M -- WHAT I'M HEARING IS DEEP

FRUSTRATION WITH THE STATE'S -- WITH PROBABLY MANY YEARS OF AGRICULTURAL

POLICY AND ENERGY POLICY AS IT HAS BEEN RESOLVED BY THIS CHAMBER, AND

I THINK, RESPECTFULLY, THAT THAT IS MISPLACED WITH REGARD TO THIS BILL.

THIS BILL IS A TECHNICAL FIX --

MR. PALMESANO: SURE.

MR. LASHER: -- TO A -- TO A LAW THIS CHAMBER

PASSED THAT SIMPLY OVER-DELEGATED TO AN AGENCY, AND WE ARE CORRECTING

THAT. THAT IS THE -- THAT IS THE FOUR CORNERS OF THIS BILL. AND I WOULD --

AS I'VE TOLD MR. TAGUE, I KNOW THAT I AND MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES

WOULD WELCOME A DEEPER ENGAGEMENT ON THE ISSUES OF AGRICULTURAL

POLICY AND ENERGY POLICY THAT YOU ALL ARE RAISING. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT

THIS BILL IS ABOUT. THIS IS A REAL PROPERTY TAX LAW LEGAL FIX. AND IF

THIS LEGISLATURE WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE -- THAT ITS WILL CAN BE

EFFECTUATED, YOU SHOULD VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL.

MR. PALMESANO: MR. LASHER, I THANK YOU FOR

YOUR TIME.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. PALMESANO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER

AND MY COLLEAGUES. I THINK MY COLLEAGUES COVERED IT GREAT IN THEIR

QUESTIONS, SPECIFICALLY -- CERTAINLY CAN UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION THAT

WE HAVE.

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YOU KNOW, WE GET TO THE POINT OF WHERE, YOU KNOW,

THE QUESTION I WAS ASKING, YOU KNOW, WE CAN NEGOTIATE -- OUR -- OUR

LOCAL IDAS DO MUCH OF THIS NEGOTIATION, BUT THEN YOU GET TO A SITUATION

WHERE -- WHERE THE LOCAL IDA IS LOOKING OUT FOR THE INTERESTS OF THE

LOCAL COMMUNITY. THEN YOU GET TO A SITUATION WHERE A DEVELOPER

MIGHT FEEL, WELL, I CAN GET A BETTER DEAL GOING TO THE STATE, BECAUSE

TIME AND AGAIN WE SAID -- WE HEARD THE SPONSOR SAY, WELL, STATE TAX

AND FINANCE -- STATE TAX AND FINANCE IS GONNA BE TRYING TO DO THIS

VALUATION.

HERE'S THE PROBLEM I THINK MANY OF US HAVE: WE --

WE SIMPLY WATCHED THE TOTAL TAKING AWAY OF LOCAL CONTROL WHEN IT CAME

-- COMES TO THE SITING OF WIND AND SOLAR PROJECTS IN OUR UPSTATE

COMMUNITIES, BECAUSE IT'S BEING DONE IN OUR UPSTATE COMMUNITIES. IT'S

NOT BEING DONE IN NEW YORK CITY. IT'S NOT REALLY BEING DONE ON LONG

ISLAND. BUT IT'S BEING DONE IN OUR UPSTATE COMMUNITIES. AND WHAT --

YOU KNOW, SO IT USED TO START WHERE IT WOULD BE THE SEQRA PROCESS

WHERE THE LOCAL TOWN BOARD AND ZONING BOARD WOULD HAVE TO APPROVE

IT. THEN WE WENT TO ARTICLE 10 AND THERE WERE SOME CHANGES MADE.

AT LEAST IN ARTICLE 10 THEY HAD TWO LOCAL OFFICIALS ON THE BOARD TO HELP

WITH THE PROCESS TO EVALUATE, TO HAVE INPUT, BE AT THE MEETINGS TO

COMMENT ON IT. THEN THAT WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH, SO THEY WENT TO ORES,

OFFICE OF RENEWABLE ENERGY SITING, WHICH TOOK TOTAL AWAY ANY LOCAL

REPRESENTATION ON IT. NOW WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THAT PROCESS THEY SAY,

WELL, WE GOT LOCAL INPUT. WE GOT A LOT OF LOCAL INPUT. NONSENSE.

THERE'S NO LOCAL INPUT. THEY USE -- THEY DO A FEW LITTLE PUBLIC

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

HEARINGS, IF THE COMMUNITY DOESN'T WANT IT THEY CAN JUST GO AND GET IT

APPROVED, AND THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING. SO YOU TAKE AWAY LOCAL CONTROL

OF THE SITING OF THESE PROJECTS. THEN ASSESSORS, IF YOU WANT TAKE AWAY

ANY LOCAL CONTROL FROM THE ASSESSORS WHO ARE TASKED WITH ASSESSING THE

VALUATION OF PROJECTS AND -- AND THINGS IN THEIR -- THEIR COMMUNITIES.

SO NOW WHAT HAPPENS? NOW IT'S GONNA GO TO STATE CONTROL.

SO THAT BRINGS UP A GREAT DEAL OF FRUSTRATION TO MANY

OF US IN UPSTATE NEW YORK BECAUSE IT'S TAKING AWAY MUCH OF OUR

UPSTATE LAND. AND I ALREADY MENTIONED IT; 60 GIGAWATTS OF SOLAR.

THAT'S 480,000 ACRES OF LAND FOR SOLAR THAT THE CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL

PLAN IS CALLING FOR. THAT'S GONNA BE UPSTATE LAND. THAT'S GONNA BE

PRIME FARMLAND. YOU KNOW, YOU WONDER WHY WE ARE FRUSTRATED. AND

WE'RE NOT BENEFITTING FROM THAT, WHETHER IT'S THESE (INDISCERNIBLE). AND

THEN 90 PERCENT OF OUR GENERATION IN UPSTATE NEW YORK IS

EMISSION-FREE. NINETY PERCENT OF THE EMISSIONS -- 90 PERCENT OF THE

GENERATION IN NEW YORK CITY, DOWNSTATE, IS FOSSIL FUEL-BASED. SO ALL

THIS IS BEING DONE TO DEAL WITH NEW YORK CITY. HOW ABOUT NEW YORK

CITY PUTS THE SOLAR PANELS ON THE ROOFS THERE? TRY TO FIGURE OUT A WAY

AND YOU DO IT INSTEAD OF PUTTING ON THE BACKS OF OUR UPSTATE FARMING

COMMUNITIES AND OUR UPSTATE AREAS?

THE PUBLIC DOESN'T REALLY WANT THIS. THEY DON'T. THEY

SEE THESE WIND FARMS AND SOLAR FARMS GOING OVER. ONE ACRE -- AGAIN,

ONE -- ONE MEGAWATT OF SOLAR IS EIGHT ACRES. FOR WIND, YOU'RE TALKING

ABOUT 30 -- 30 ACRES PER MEGAWATT. THAT'S A LOT OF ACREAGE BEING TAKEN

UP BY WIND AND SOLAR. AND IT'S -- IT'S INTERMITTENT ENERGY, SO IT'S NOT

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REALLY HELPING PROVIDE RELIABILITY TO THE GRID. EVEN THE NYISO HAS SAID

THAT. SO THIS GETS REALLY, REALLY FRUSTRATING TO US WHEN WE SEE THIS

HAPPENING TIME AND TIME AGAIN. THERE'S A LAWSUIT IN PLACE. WHY NOT

LET IT PLAY OUT?

BUT I JUST THINK THAT'S THE FRUSTRATION YOU -- YOU WILL --

YOU HEARD FROM US IN THIS DEBATE. THAT'S THE FRUSTRATION HEARD FROM US

IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS WHEN WE'VE DONE THIS DEBATE. THAT'S THE

FRUSTRATION HERE IN THE LAWSUIT. IT JUST FEELS UPSTATE NEW YORK IS JUST

GETTING SLUGGED IN THE GUT OR IN THE CHIN TIME AND TIME AGAIN WITH THESE

POLICIES THAT WE, QUITE FRANKLY, DON'T WANT. BUT IT IS OTHER PEOPLE WHO

ARE SAYING THIS IS WHAT WE GOTTA DO BECAUSE IT'S THE GOALS, IT'S THE

MANDATES WE NEED TO MEET.

I KNOW THIS IS A TECHNICAL FIX, BUT IT ALL STEMS BACK TO

THE ENERGY POLICY THAT'S BEING ADVANCED IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. I

DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT AGAIN; I DID THAT EARLIER. BUT THAT'S THE

FRUSTRATION. AND I WISH THERE'D BE SOME RECOGNITION OF THAT FROM MY

COLLEAGUES FROM DOWNSTATE. AND FROM MY COLLEAGUES FROM UPSTATE TO

SAY MORE ON THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS BECOMING A FRUSTRATING ISSUE WHICH

WE SEE TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

SO I APPRECIATE THE -- THE SPONSOR'S TIME ON THIS

LEGISLATION AND ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS. BUT CERTAINLY, I HOPE HE

SENSES THE FRUSTRATION WE HAVE ON THIS ISSUE, THE CONCERNS WE HAVE ON

THIS ISSUE, BECAUSE THEY'RE BIG CONCERNS. THEY'RE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS.

AND I THINK THEY NEED TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AS WE MOVE

FORWARD.

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SO FOR THAT REASON, MR. -- MADAM SPEAKER, MY

COLLEAGUES, I'M GONNA BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS LEGISLATION AND

I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. GANDOLFO.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE OPPOSED TO THIS BILL;

HOWEVER, ANY MEMBERS WHO WISH TO VOTE YES MAY DO SO AT THEIR DESKS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

OF LEGISLATION. THERE MAY BE A FEW WHO WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN

EXCEPTION, THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. ANGELINO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

THIS IS THE THIRD TIME I'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS BILL, AND NOW IT IS IN A

LAWSUIT. AND I DON'T THINK JUDGES APPRECIATE WHEN THEY'VE RULED ON

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SOMETHING, THEN THE -- THE BILL GETS AMENDED JUST TO ADD CONFUSION TO

THE ISSUE, THINKING THAT IT'S CORRECTING SOMETHING. IT WAS BAD TO BEGIN

WITH.

I GOT TO TELL YOU, THE PEOPLE I REPRESENT, WHO I LIVE

WITH, THEY'RE JUST SICK OF UPSTATE NEW YORK BEING A COLONY FOR NEW

YORK CITY. YOU TAKE OUR WATER FROM DELAWARE COUNTY, SCHOHARIE

COUNTY, ULSTER, GREENE. NOW YOU'RE TAKING OUR LAND. YOU'RE TURNING

BUCOLIC VIEWS INTO INDUSTRIAL SITES WITH NOTHING BUT STEEL AND SOLAR

PANELS. AND IF YOU NEED -- IF WE'RE RIGHT NOW AT A HALF-MILLION ACRES, I

DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MORE YOU'RE GONNA TAKE. WHEN DOES IT END TO

HAVE ENOUGH POWER FOR NEW YORK CITY? YOU'VE GOT TO DECIDE, DO YOU

WANT LIGHTS ON OR DO YOU WANT TO EAT?

I JUST WISH THAT THIS INDUSTRY DID NOT NEED PROPPING

UP. AND THIS BILL IS JUST ANOTHER CRUTCH; ONE OF THE MANY THAT WE KEEP

PROVIDING TO THE SOLAR AND WIND TURBINE INDUSTRY. IT'S CONSTANT,

CONSTANTLY IN NEED OF TWEAKING, AND IT NEEDS THINGS THAT JUST HAVE TO

KEEP HELPING IT ALONG. NOBODY WANTS IT, IT'S NOT A VIABLE INDUSTRY. AND

PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T EVEN BRING ANOTHER DRAFT OF THIS LEGISLATION BEFORE

THIS BODY UNTIL EVERY ROOF, EVERY WALL, EVERY PARKING LOT IN THE FIVE

BOROUGHS IS COVERED WITH SOLAR. SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN GET DOWN

THERE WHERE IT'S NEEDED BEFORE YOU COME UPSTATE AND START TAKING OUR

TILLABLE FARMLAND AND OUR VIEWS, OUR GREEN SPACES.

I'LL BE VOTING NO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. ANGELINO IN THE

NEGATIVE.

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MR. TAGUE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. TAGUE: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I STILL

LOOK UP THERE AND SEE A LOT OF AWFUL GREEN BUTTONS PUSHED. AND I JUST

DON'T UNDERSTAND IT, BECAUSE MANY OF US STAND HERE AND WHEN A BILL

FROM THE CITY COMES THAT'S GONNA HELP THE PEOPLE THAT YOU REPRESENT,

MANY OF US VOTE YES WHEN IT'S A LOCAL BILL. THIS RIGHT HERE AFFECTS LOCAL,

AND IT AFFECTS A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT FEED YOU. THAT FEED YOU. AND I

JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE -- AND ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE THAT ALWAYS

CRY ABOUT CORPORATE AMERICA, THAT'S WHO YOU'RE FEEDING MONEY TO, IS

CORPORATE AMERICA. NOT THE TAXPAYERS IN RURAL UPSTATE NEW YORK.

THIS IS A TERRIBLE BILL. VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE FOR ONCE.

THIS BILL NEEDS BE VOTED DOWN. IF YOU VOTE YES ON THIS THEN WE KNOW

WHERE YOU STAND. YOU'RE MORE ABOUT CORPORATE GREED THAN YOU ARE

ABOUT PUTTING FOOD IN YOUR MOUTH OR YOUR CONSTITUENTS' MOUTH.

I VOTE ABSOLUTELY NO. GARBAGE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. TAGUE IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. BOLOGNA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BOLOGNA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

REPRESENTING A VERY RURAL COMMUNITY IN -- IN NIAGARA COUNTY, MY

COLLEAGUE MR. TAGUE ACTUALLY SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE I

REPRESENT. HONESTLY, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE AT -- I'M AT A NIAGARA COUNTY

FARM BUREAU BREAKFAST, TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST WITH YOU. BUT THAT --

THAT IS THE TYPE OF EMOTION AND FEELINGS THAT -- THAT THESE BILLS PRODUCE.

WE HAVE A BILL TODAY, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT AND OUTLINING NATURAL

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GAS AND HOW PEOPLE IN WESTERN NEW YORK AND UPSTATE NEW YORK ARE

-- ARE -- ARE PLEADING TO ALLOW US TO HAVE THAT -- THAT RELIABLE ENERGY,

AND, YOU KNOW, NO, CAN'T DO THAT. BUT THEN AT THE SAME TOKEN, THE

JUSTIFICATION OF THIS BILL SAYS THAT INCENTIVIZING AND ENCOURAGING THE

EXPANSION OF WIND AND SOLAR PROJECTS IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE

CLIMATE CHANGE SOLUTION. PICK ONE. IF -- IF YOU -- IF WE, YOU KNOW,

LOVED IT, SO FINE, BUT LET US KEEP OUR NATURAL GAS.

IN -- IN A LOT OF WAYS THIS IS VERY FRUSTRATING. BUT MY

-- MY COLLEAGUE MR. TAGUE HAS GIVEN US A VERY GOOD EMBODIMENT OF

WHY THIS IS SUCH AN EMOTIONAL AND FRUSTRATING ISSUE FOR SO MANY OF US

IN UPSTATE NEW YORK BECAUSE A LARGE SENTIMENT IN UPSTATE IS THAT WE

ARE PROVIDING ENERGY AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR LAND FOR NEW YORK CITY.

SO WITH THAT AND ON BEHALF OF MY RESIDENTS IN UPSTATE

NEW YORK, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BOLOGNA IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. MANKTELOW TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

I JUST WANTED TO SHARE THIS WITH EVERYONE HERE IN THE

CHAMBER THAT AS A FARMER, AS A PERSON THAT WORKED THE GROUND, THAT

MADE THAT GROUND THE BEST THAT IT COULD BE TO PRODUCE THE BEST

VEGETABLES AND THE BEST CROPS FOR NEW YORKERS, I KNOW THE LOVE OF THE

LAND. AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS AS WE WERE TALKING, AND I'LL JUST

PUT THIS INTO PERSPECTIVE. AN OUT-OF-STATE COMPANY COMES IN, THEY TAKE

ANOTHER 2,000 ACRES AND YOU HAVE NO SAY IN IT. OH, AND BY THE WAY,

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THAT 2,000 ACRES IS NEW YORK CITY PARK, CENTRAL PARK. A COMPANY

COMES IN, TAKES THAT BEAUTIFUL PARK AREA, TURNS IT INTO A WIND --

WINDMILL OR A SOLAR PROJECT. ALL THAT BEAUTIFUL LAND AND PONDS AND

WATER AND VEGETATION AND ANIMALS AND FISH ARE NOW GONE BECAUSE WE

NEED SOLAR POWER. WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER TO SAVE ALL OF OUR

PROPERTIES, TO SAVE OUR LAND. AND LET'S DO THIS IN A RESPECTFUL WAY AND

LET'S HELP ACCOMPLISH WHAT WE WANT TO GET, BUT REALLY TAKE A HARD LOOK

AT NOT GIVING UP ANYMORE FARMLAND. JUST LIKE YOU WOULD NOT WANT TO

GIVE UP CENTRAL PARK TO PUT SOLAR PROJECTS IN.

SO THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, AND I'LL BE VOTING IN

THE NEGATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MANKTELOW IN

THE NEGATIVE.

MR. RA TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. OBVIOUSLY, I

AM NOT FROM UPSTATE, BUT I HEAR MY COLLEAGUES TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

AND, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THIS COURT DECISION AS IT WAS WORKING ITS

WAY THROUGH THE COURTS, THE ASSESSORS ASSOCIATION IS TELLING US, DESPITE

THE UNDERLYING STATUTE, SAYS THEY NEED TO BE CONSULTED WITH. THEY'RE

TELLING US THEY WERE NOT CONSULTED WITH IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY. AND

THE DECISION TALKS ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A DISPUTE THAT THE

STAKEHOLDERS COULD NOT COME TO AN AGREEMENT WITH, AND THAT'S PART OF

WHY THEY ENDED UP CONCLUDING THAT THERE WAS AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL

DELEGATION OF POWER. SO WHILE THIS IS JUST DEALING WITH THAT ASPECT OF

IT, I THINK IT FURTHER CUTS OUT THE ASSESSORS, WHO ARE NAMED IN THIS

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STATUTE AS NEEDING TO BE CONSULTED WITH. AND WE HAVE HEARD FROM, I

WOULD SAY, RELATIVELY SMALL MUNICIPALITIES THAT THERE -- STAND TO LOSE

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, WHICH -- YOU THINK ABOUT A LARGE TOWN, COUNTY, CITY

DOWNSTATE THAT HAS A VERY LARGE BUDGET, THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A LOT OF

MONEY, THAT IS A HUGE IMPACT ON AN UPSTATE MUNICIPALITY.

SO I'M GONNA BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. RA IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. EACHUS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. EACHUS: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR

ALLOWING ME TO COMMENT ON THIS. I'M NEITHER FROM THE CITY, NOR AM I

FROM UPSTATE. I'M IN THE MID-HUDSON VALLEY. WE HAVE LOTS OF FARMS

IN THE MID-HUDSON VALLEY. AND OF THE FARMERS I SPOKE TO WHO HAVE

SOLD THEIR FARMS, THEY'VE DONE IT FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT. THEY'VE MADE

LOTS OF MONEY BY SELLING THEIR LAND, AND THEY LIKED THAT. AND IT'S

INTERESTING, MY COLLEAGUES WHO PROFESS TO BE FARMERS HAVE NEVER ONCE

MENTIONED THE TERM "AGRISOLAR." AGRISOLAR ACTUALLY INCREASES THE

PRODUCTION OF MUCH OF THE FARMLAND WHEN DONE PROPERLY. AGRISOLAR

ALLOWS YOU TO PUT UP SOLAR PANELS, WHICH MANY OF THE FARMERS ARE

DOING NOW, AS WELL AS RAISE CROPS UNDER THEM, AS WELL AS TO HAVE

LIVESTOCK RAISED UNDER THEM AND THE LIKE. AND YET THESE FOLKS ARE

CONSTANTLY COMMENTING ON, WE'RE LOSING FARMLAND. WE'RE NOT LOSING

FARMLAND UNLESS THOSE FARMERS WANT TO GIVE IT UP FOR THAT. THEY CAN

USE AGRISOLAR AND ACTUALLY INCREASE THEIR PRODUCTION WITH IT IF THEY

WANTED TO.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND I AM

VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. EACHUS IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. LEMONDES TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. LEMONDES: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

THIS BILL IS BAD FOR A LOT OF REASONS; MOST OF THEM HAVE BEEN COVERED.

ONE THING THAT I WANT TO REMIND EVERYONE OF, ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE THAT

ARE VOTING YES ON THIS, IS EVERY ACRE OF LAND THAT'S ENCUMBERED WITH A

SOLAR PANEL RAISES FEED PRICES FOR OTHER ANIMALS AND RAISES FOOD PRICES.

OUR ENERGY PROBLEMS, TOGETHER AS A STATE, WILL NOT BE SOLVED WITHOUT

NUCLEAR -- WITHOUT NUCLEAR POWER.

THE PEOPLE THAT I REPRESENT DON'T WANT THESE WIND

FARMS IN OUR DISTRICT. I DON'T WANT ONE ON MY FARM. AND I CAN ATTEST TO

THE PRESSURE THAT PEOPLE FEEL FROM THESE COMPANIES TRYING TO PUSH

THESE SOLAR PROJECTS ON OUR RURAL FARMLAND. A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE

SUBMITTED TO THIS BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER, AND THEY'VE BEEN

TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF COMPLETELY, IN A HUNDRED DIFFERENT WAYS. HOW

ABOUT A SOLAR PROJECT WITHOUT A DECOMMISSIONING CLAUSE OR WITHOUT A

RENT ESCALATION CLAUSE, WHICH IS WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DUPED

INTO? LET'S NOT FORGET THAT. LET'S NOT FORGET ELDERLY PEOPLE. WHAT IF

THEY WERE YOUR PARENTS OR GRANDPARENTS THAT ARE COUNTING ON THAT

MONEY FOR THEIR RETIREMENT, YET AT THE END THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A MESS

THAT THEY HAVE TO CLEAN UP. WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR THAT? PROBABLY THE

LANDOWNER IF THERE'S NO DECOMMISSIONING CLAUSE IN THE CONTRACT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE FARCE OF THE CLCPA THAT WE CAN SOLVE OUR ENERGY

PROBLEMS WITHOUT NUCLEAR POWER IS A JOKE. SMALL MODULAR NUCLEAR LIKE

OUR --

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU, MR.

LEMONDES. HOW DO YOU VOTE?

MR. LEMONDES: I VOTE NO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. LEMONDES IN

THE NEGATIVE.

MR. PALMESANO TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. PALMESANO: YES, THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER, MY COLLEAGUES. THE COMMENT WAS MADE THAT FARMERS ARE

SELLING THEIR PROPERTY AND THEY LOVE IT. I DON'T BLAME THE FARMER. THE

REASON THE FARMERS ARE SELLING THEIR PROPERTY IS BECAUSE THEY'RE GETTING

SCREWED OVER BY THE POLICIES THAT CONTINUE TO COME OUT OF THIS HOUSE.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE FARM LABOR ACT THAT WE PASSED SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

THAT WAS PUTTING THE SCREWS TO THE FARMER. THE ENERGY POLICY, THE

CLCPA IS ADVANCING. THAT'S PUTTING THE SCREWS TO THE FARMER. THEN

WE HAVE THE RIDICULOUS PROPOSAL OUT THERE, LET'S LIMIT JUST TO 700 COWS.

THAT -- THAT'S GONNA BE GREAT TO HELP MEET THE EXPANSION OF PROJECTS

LIKE CHOBANI. IT'S SHORT-SIGHTED. I DON'T BLAME THE FARMER; IT'S THE

POLICIES THAT COME OUT OF THIS HOUSE THAT ARE CAUSING PROBLEMS FOR OUR

FARMING COMMUNITY SO THEY CAN TRY TO GET SOME MONEY OUT OF THEIR

FARM BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE MONEY FARMING BECAUSE OF THE POLICIES

COME [SIC] OUT OF THIS STATE. SO LET'S NOT BLAME THEM. I'M NOT BLAMING

THE FARMER. AND REMEMBER, LIKE MY COLLEAGUE SAYS, YOU KNOW, IF

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THERE'S NO -- IF THERE'S NO FARMS, THERE'S NO FOOD.

I KNOW WE ALL WANT TO SEE FOOD AT A REASONABLE COST ALL

ACROSS THE STATE AND NEW YORK CITY, WHEREVER IT MAY BE. THINGS LIKE

THIS MAKE IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT, SO I'M GONNA BE VOTING NO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. PALMESANO IN

THE NEGATIVE.

MR. FRIEND TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. FRIEND: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS

BILL DOESN'T LIMIT SOLAR PANELS TO JUST AGRIVOLTAICS. AND ACROSS MY

ENTIRE DISTRICT, MARSHLAND, FORESTLAND, FARMLAND IS BEING PICKED UP AND

TURNED INTO SOLAR FARMS AT AN ALARMING RATE. AND THEY'RE NOT SITTING

HIGH ENOUGH TO GROW SOMETHING UNDERNEATH IT. YOU CAN'T GET AN

ANIMAL UNDERNEATH THOSE SOLAR PANELS THAT ARE BEING PUT IN RIGHT NOW.

THE NUMBER OF FARMERS THAT HAVE TO COME TO ME AND SAID, WHAT AM I

GONNA DO NEXT YEAR, CHRIS, BECAUSE THEY'RE PUTTING A SOLAR FARM ON THE

LAND THAT I USED TO LEASE TO GROW THE CROPS TO FEED MY ANIMALS? WHERE

AM I GONNA GET THE FOOD? EITHER THEY HAVE TO SELL THEIR FARM AND LEAVE

THE STATE NOW, OR THEY HAVE TO BUY FOOD FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE TO FEED

THE ANIMALS ON THEIR FARM AND SHIP IT IN.

THIS WAS A POORLY THOUGHT-OUT BILL AND I VOTE NO.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. FRIEND IN THE

NEGATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 12, RULES REPORT NO. 498, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S00700, RULES REPORT NO.

498, SENATOR KRUEGER (A04664, EPSTEIN, TAYLOR, BURDICK, ZINERMAN).

AN ACT TO AMEND THE TAX LAW, IN RELATION TO THE ENFORCEMENT OF

DELINQUENT TAX LIABILITIES BY MEANS OF THE SUSPENSION OF LICENSES TO

OPERATE A MOTOR VEHICLE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. EPSTEIN.

MR. EPSTEIN: THANK YOU. UNDER CURRENT STATE TAX

LAW, THE COMMISSIONER OF TAX AND FINANCE CAN ASK THE DMV TO

REVOKE SOMEONE'S DRIVER'S LICENSE. WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ADJUSTING THAT

FIGURE TOWARDS INFLATION, PROVIDING EXEMPTIONS FOR PEOPLE WITH

INCOMES BELOW 250 PERCENT OF POVERTY, AND GRANTING THE TAX

COMMISSIONER FURTHER AUTHORITY TO WAIVE SUSPENSIONS IF THE TAXPAYER

CAN, YOU KNOW, PROVIDE A CASE OF EQUITIES IN THEIR CASE. AND IT ALSO

GIVES THE TAX COMMISSIONER THE ABILITY TO GO AFTER TAXPAYERS WHO

AFFIRMATIVELY AVOID TAXES FOR TAX COLLECTION THAT ARE BELOW $10,000.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. GANDOLFO.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR PLEASE YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. EPSTEIN: HAPPY TO.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO FIRST, WE HAD A LITTLE

DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS EARLIER BUT I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY A COUPLE OF

THINGS HERE. SO NOW THE -- THE ABILITY -- THE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND

FINANCE CURRENTLY HAS THE ABILITY TO SUSPEND A LICENSE FOR ANYBODY WHO

HAS A TAX DELINQUENCY OF OVER $10,000?

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. GANDOLFO: DO YOU KNOW ABOUT HOW OFTEN

THAT HAPPENS?

MR. EPSTEIN: REGULARLY ENOUGH. I DON'T KNOW THE

OVERALL NUMBER OF NEW YORKERS WHO HAVE THEIR SUSPENSION, BUT IT'S A

REG -- PRETTY REGULAR BEHAVIOR, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO THERE'S CURRENTLY NO

EXCLUSIONS ON THE ABILITY OF TAX AND FINANCE TO DO THIS?

MR. EPSTEIN: THEY CAN'T EXCLUDE IF SOMEONE HAS

CHILD SUPPORT ARREARS. THAT IS CURRENTLY EXCLUDED UNDER THE STATUE.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO NOW THIS WOULD JUST

EXCLUDE INDIVIDUALS ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE, SSI. INDIVIDUALS WHO DO NOT

EXCEED 250 PERCENT OF THE FEDERAL POVERTY LEVEL, AND/OR THE PAYMENT OF

PAST-DUE LIABILITIES THAT WOULD CREATE A FINANCIAL HARDSHIP FOR THEM?

MR. EPSTEIN: EXACTLY. BUT THEY HAVE TO -- THE

COMMISSIONER WILL HAVE TO DETERMINE BASED ON THE APPLICATION

WHETHER THE -- THAT THEY AGREE. THE COMMISSIONER HAS TO DECIDE

WHETHER THAT IS ACTUALLY A LIABILITY AND THEN THEY CAN WAIVE THAT

OBLIGATION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. NOW, IS THAT -- IN TERMS OF

THE FEDERAL POVERTY LEVEL, DOES THAT APPLY ONLY TO INDIVIDUALS? WHAT IF

THEY FILE JOINTLY? WOULD IT GO BY THE CHART OF --

MR. EPSTEIN: WHATEVER THE FEDERAL POVERTY LEVEL IS

FOR THE FAMILY SIZE THAT THEY'RE IN.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. OKAY. NOW, SO IT WILL GO

BY THE... OKAY. NOW, CURRENTLY DOES A WARNING GO OUT BEFORE A LICENSE

IS SUSPENDED IF YOU HAVE A TAX DELINQUENCY?

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, THEY -- THEY GET 60-DAY NOTICE

BEFORE THE SUSPENSION OCCURS, AND PEOPLE CAN CHALLENGE THE

SUSPENSION. THAT'S ALREADY EXISTING UNDER STATUTE.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO

CHALLENGE. COULD YOU ARGUE THAT LEAVING TAX AND FINANCE WITH THE

ABILITY TO SUSPEND IT AND SEND OUT A WARNING TO SOME OF THESE

INDIVIDUALS MIGHT BRING THEM IN THE DOOR TO MAYBE CUT A DEAL FOR A

PAYMENT PLAN?

MR. EPSTEIN: I DON'T THINK THAT CHANGES THAT

POWER. ACTUALLY, I THINK IT GIVES THEM ADDITIONAL POWER FOR PEOPLE TO

ACTUALLY BELOW THEIR $10,000 THRESHOLD IF THEY INTENTIONALLY SEEK TO

EVADE THE DISCLOSURE. SO THAT'S ADDITIONAL POWER. BUT IT ALSO GIVES

THEM THE AUTHORITY TO ENTER INTO PAYMENT PLANS FOR PEOPLE IN A MUCH

MORE EXPANSIVE WAY, DETERMINING BASED ON ALL THE FACTORS WHETHER

THEY DETERMINE THAT THE PERSON SHOULD GET INTO A PAYMENT PLAN AND NOT

GET THEIR LICENSE SUSPENDED. ANOTHER THING I'LL ADD, ESPECIALLY IF

SOMEONE'S AROUND OUR STATE -- WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT UPSTATE A FEW

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MINUTES AGO. IT'S HARD TO GET AROUND THE STATE, ESPECIALLY OUTSIDE OF

NEW YORK CITY, WITHOUT A DRIVER'S LICENSE. AND IF YOU'RE EMPLOYED

AND YOU GET YOUR LICENSE SUSPENDED, THE ABILITY TO GO TO WORK IS FURTHER

RESTRICTED.

MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT. AND I FULLY RECOGNIZE THE

CATCH-22 THAT IF YOU HAVE YOUR LICENSE SUSPENDED, HOW ARE YOU GETTING

OFF TO WORK TO PAY DOWN YOUR DELINQUENCY. BUT I THINK THERE COULD BE

A BALANCING ACT HERE. I FEEL THAT IF YOU REMOVE THE ABILITY WHAT'S -- FOR

TAX AND FINANCE TO EVEN HAVE THAT THREAT OF SUSPENSION, WHY WOULD

SOMEONE COME IN AND GET ON A PAYMENT PLAN TO PAY OFF THAT DEBT OVER

A PERIOD OF TIME?

MR. EPSTEIN: WELL, IT'S STILL THE THREAT OF

SUSPENSION. WE'RE JUST INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY LOW-INCOME,

SOMEONE WHO'S ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE, SOCIAL SECURITY OR 250 PERCENT OF

POVERTY BELOW. IT'S A SMALL CATEGORY OF PEOPLE WE'RE EXCLUDING WHO

ARE EXTREMELY LOW INCOME. IN ADDITION, THEY'RE NOT -- THEY STILL HAVE

THE OBLIGATION. SO YOU CAN STILL GARNISH WAGES, YOU CAN DO OTHER

THINGS. YOU JUST WON'T BE ABLE TO SUSPEND THEIR LICENSE, WHICH IS, IN

SOME WAYS, A CRITICAL THING FOR PEOPLE TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET TO BE

ABLE TO GET AROUND THIS GREAT STATE.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO WAGES STILL COULD BE

GARNISHED --

(INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK)

MR. EPSTEIN: ALL THOSE RIGHTS ARE STILL AVAILABLE TO

THEM.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. AND NOW, IS THERE ANY

KIND OF MEANS TEST? IS IT BASED ON THE PRIOR YEAR'S TAX RETURN?

MR. EPSTEIN: YEAH, BASED ON THE TAX RETURNS TO

DETERMINE WHETHER THEY'RE BELOW THE POVERTY OR THEY'RE CURRENTLY ON

PUBLIC ASSISTANCE OR GETTING SOCIAL SECURITY.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. NOW, IS THERE ANY OTHER

MEANS TESTING, WHETHER THEY HAVE ANY ASSETS THEY COULD LIQUIFY TO PAY

DOWN THE DEBT? IF -- YOU KNOW, SAY SOMEONE LOST THEIR JOB IN THE PRIOR

YEAR BUT STILL HAD A SECOND PROPERTY OR A SAVINGS ACCOUNT WITH A DECENT

AMOUNT OF MONEY IN IT.

MR. EPSTEIN: I MEAN, TAX AND FINANCE HAS ALL THAT

INFORMATION, SO THEY'RE MAKING THE DETERMINATION BASED ON ALL THE

EVIDENCE BEFORE THEM. IF YOU'RE ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE YOU CAN'T HAVE,

LIKE, A MILLION DOLLARS IN THE BANK. IT'S UNDER -- UNDER THE RULES OF THE

STATE OF NEW YORK. YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY. SO FOR PUBLIC

ASSISTANCE OR SOCIAL SECURITY, THERE ARE REAL LIMITATIONS ON HOW MUCH

MONEY YOU CAN HAVE. PEOPLE AT 250 PERCENT OF POVERTY BELOW, WE'RE

LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A BALANCE OF THE EQUITIES AND

INFORMATION. PEOPLE ABOVE THAT, IT'S STILL THE TAX AND FINANCE

DEPARTMENT TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION. AND THE ADDITIONAL

POWER THAT WE'RE GIVING THEM FOR PEOPLE BELOW THE THRESHOLD, I THINK

IT'S CRITICAL AS WELL, ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE TRYING TO HIDE

THOSE ASSETS, WE'RE GIVING THEM ADDITIONAL POWER TO SUSPEND LICENSES

FOR PEOPLE BELOW THAT IF THEY'RE TRYING TO HIDE THEIR ASSETS.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. THOSE ARE ALL THE

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QUESTIONS I HAD FOR YOU. THANK YOU.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL BRIEFLY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. GANDOLFO: I APPRECIATE THE SPONSOR

ANSWERING SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS. IT DOES RAISE A CATCH-22 THAT IF

SOMEONE IS BEHIND ON THEIR TAXES AND IS A LOW-INCOME INDIVIDUAL AND

YOU TAKE AWAY THEIR ABILITY TO TRAVEL TO WORK, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO

PAY DOWN WHAT THEY OWE? HOWEVER, I FEEL THAT REMOVING THE ABILITY

FOR TAX AND FINANCE TO SUSPEND THAT LICENSE IS REMOVING, I GUESS, AN

INCENTIVE FOR SOMEONE TO COME IN AND MAKE A DEAL TO GET RIGHT ON THEIR

BACK TAXES. AND WITH THE WAY THIS STATE SPENDS MONEY, I THINK WE

NEED EVERY INCENTIVE TO BRING IN THOSE TAX REVENUES BECAUSE WE'LL

PROBABLY RUN OUT OF IT EVENTUALLY.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I WILL BE VOTING VOTE NO

AND I ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT APRIL 1ST.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PARTICULAR BILL. IF

ANYBODY WISHES TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, THEY MAY DO SO RIGHT NOW AT

THEIR DESKS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, THE

MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GONNA BE SUPPORTING THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DECIDE TO BE AN EXCEPTION, AND THEY

SHOULD DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. EPSTEIN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. EPSTEIN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I RISE

TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE BILL THAT DOESN'T AFFECT THE

ABILITY OF OUR STATE TO COLLECT TAXES, BUT UNDERSTANDS, ESPECIALLY WITH

LOW-INCOME NEW YORKERS, LOSING A DRIVER'S LICENSE CAN MEAN NOT BEING

ABLE TO WORK, FEED THEIR FAMILY OR SURVIVE IN OUR GREAT STATE. IT'S A

REALLY SIMPLE FIX TO ENSURE THAT OUR TAX DELINQUENCY DOLLARS ARE

COLLECTED, BUT ALSO TO ENSURE THAT NEW YORKERS WHO NEED THAT DRIVER'S

LICENSE TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO WORK IN THIS STATE WILL BE ABLE TO DO

THAT.

I WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER, THE MAJORITY LEADER AND

ALL MY COLLEAGUES. THIS HAS BEEN -- IT'S BEEN A JOY AND A PLEASURE AND I

WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. EPSTEIN IN THE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. HEVESI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. HEVESI: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I JUST

WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THE THOUGHTFUL APPROACH TO THIS BILL AND

MANY OTHERS OVER THE YEARS, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF HIS

CONTRIBUTIONS HERE TODAY. THANK YOU, SIR.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. HEVESI IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. LAVINE TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. LAVINE: LET ME JOIN MY COLLEAGUES IN WISHING

AND THANKING AND WISHING THE SPONSOR WELL. BUT I HAVE A PARTICULAR

BIAS BECAUSE HIS MOM IS AN OLD FRIEND. HARVEY, WELL DONE, MY FRIEND.

GIVE MY BEST AND OUR BEST AND ALL BEST TO YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. LAVINE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 12, RULES REPORT NO. 532, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08412-D, RULES

REPORT NO. 532, BICHOTTE HERMELYN. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC

HOUSING LAW, IN RELATION TO SUCCESSION RIGHTS FOR NEW YORK CITY

HOUSING AUTHORITY PROPERTIES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

BICHOTTE HERMELYN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

BILL IS ADVANCED.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER, FOR ALLOWING ME TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE ON THIS BILL.

IMAGINE YOU WAKE UP ONE MORNING IN YOUR APARTMENT

YOU'VE LIVED IN FOR YEARS WITH YOUR MOTHER, FATHER, OR EVEN JUST A

LONGTIME FRIEND OR ROOMMATE, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S A DEATH WITH

THE MAIN LEASEHOLDER AND ALL OF THE REMAINING PEOPLE IN THE APARTMENT

SOON HAVE TO VACATE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO PROCESS TO SUCCEED THE

LEASEHOLDER IN TIME. I REMEMBER CLEAR AS DAY WHEN I GOT A CALL FROM

ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS, EDWIGE EDOUARD, WHOSE MOTHER, MRS.

EDOUARD, HAD PASSED. HIS FATHER, HIS MOTHER'S HUSBAND, WAS NOT ON THE

LEASE. THIS WAS A HOUSEHOLD OF HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS WHO CAME TO THIS

COUNTRY SEEKING AN OPPORTUNITY -- OPPORTUNITY IN LIFE. THEY PAID THEIR

TAXES, RAISED THEIR KIDS, AND THE HOUSEHOLD EVENTUALLY BECAME

NATURALIZED U.S. CITIZENS.

I CALLED NYCHA IMMEDIATELY TO SEE WHAT WERE THE

POLICIES FOR SUCCESSION OF A SPOUSE AND THERE WERE NONE. IT WAS SAD.

WE HAD TO MOVE THIS SENIOR CITIZEN, MR. EDOUARD ELSEWHERE. HE LATER

PASSED. SINCE THEN, NYCHA, LEGAL AID AND THE HOUSING ADVOCATES

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AMENDED THE POLICIES TO INCLUDE A BROADER BASE OF PEOPLE BEYOND

FAMILY MEMBERS TO SUCCEED THE APARTMENT IN NYCHA. THIS BILL IS TO

MODIFY THE POLICIES ALLOWING NYCHA TO MAKE IT EVEN MORE

PROGRESSIVE IN THE FUTURE. SUCCESSION RIGHTS SAVE HOUSEHOLDS IN

NYCHA APARTMENT FROM BECOMING HOMELESS. IF A FAMILY MEMBER, A

SPOUSE OR PARTNER THAT HAS PASSED AWAY OR LEFT AND THEY HAVE LIVED WITH

FOR YEARS PRIOR, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO FOCUS ON THEIR GRIEVING VERSUS

NEEDING TO TRY TO FIND A NEW APARTMENT TO LIVE IN.

THERE ARE OVER 300 DEVELOPMENTS IN NYCHA WITH

MORE THAN 160,000 APARTMENTS; 500,000 (INDISCERNIBLE-CROSS-TALK) --

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU, MS.

BICHOTTE HERMELYN. HOW DO YOU VOTE?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: SO WITH THIS TO

PROTECT THE VULNERABLE POPULATION (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSS-TALK) --

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: HOW DO YOU VOTE,

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: I WILL BE VOTING IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. BICHOTTE

HERMELYN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. SO, I

ALSO WILL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS LEGISLATION BECAUSE MY READING OF IT

IS THAT IT REALLY JUST REQUIRES NYCHA TO ENUMERATE IN SOME WRITTEN

FORM THE POLICIES THAT ARE ALREADY IN PLACE SURROUNDING AN INDIVIDUAL'S

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ABILITY TO APPLY FOR CONTINUED RESIDENCY OR TO TAKE OVER RESIDENCY

SHOULD A TENANT OF RECORD LEAVE A NYCHA PUBLIC HOUSING UNIT. THAT'S

BECAUSE OF AMENDMENTS MADE IN THIS BILL LANGUAGE THAT STATE THAT

NYCHA POLICIES AND PROCEDURES INCLUDE AND SHALL CONTINUE TO INCLUDE

POLICIES AND PROCEDURES ALLOWING INDIVIDUALS TO CLAIM SUCCESSION

RIGHTS. SO BECAUSE NYCHA WILL ONLY BE ABLE TO CREATE A POLICY THAT

REITERATES AND IS CONSISTENT WITH EXISTING LAWS AND REGULATIONS, I

BELIEVE THAT THIS -- THIS BILL IS -- IS ALL RIGHT WITH ME.

SO I'LL BE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. WALSH IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 12, RULES REPORT NO. 546, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00225-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 546, MAGNARELLI, HUNTER. AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC

AUTHORITIES LAW, IN RELATION TO COMMUTER PASSES ON THE NEW YORK

STATE THRUWAY IN THE SYRACUSE AREA; AND PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF

SUCH PROVISIONS UPON EXPIRATION THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

MAGNARELLI, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. MAGNARELLI.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

BILL WOULD DIRECT THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY TO ISSUE ANNUAL SHORT-DISTANCE

COMMUTER PERMITS FOR FREE TRAVEL IN THE SYRACUSE AREA BETWEEN CERTAIN

EXITS; 34-A, 35, 36, 37, 38 AND 39.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: MADAM SPEAKER, WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO JUST A FEW

QUESTIONS ON THIS, REALLY. SO WHY -- WHY ARE WE GONNA ALLOW PEOPLE TO

TRAVEL FOR FREE DURING THOSE -- IN THOSE FIVE EXITS, POTENTIALLY?

MR. MAGNARELLI: WELL, YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH

SYRACUSE LATELY OR THE CENTRAL NEW YORK AREA?

MS. WALSH: I HAVE, YEAH.

MR. MAGNARELLI: WE HAVE THE I-81 PROJECT

GOING ON. IT'S GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER FIVE YEARS. AND IN THE NEXT YEAR

THEY'RE GOING TO START TAKING DOWN THE VIADUCTS THAT RUN THROUGH THE

MIDDLE OF SYRACUSE. SO THE IDEA IS TO ALLOW ANOTHER ROUTE AROUND THE

CITY DURING THE PERIOD OF CONSTRUCTION.

MS. WALSH: SO THIS WILL JUST BE TEMPORARY AND

THEN AS SOON AS THAT PROJECT IS COMPLETED IT WILL BE LIFTED?

MR. MAGNARELLI: THE BILL SUNSETS IN FIVE YEARS,

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DECEMBER 31, 2030.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. I DO LIKE THE FACT THAT IF --

THERE'S -- THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE BILL THAT BASICALLY

SAYS THAT IF IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A TREMENDOUS LOSS OF REVENUE, THEN

THERE COULD BE, LIKE, A READJUSTMENT OF THE -- OF THE PLAN. CAN YOU JUST

TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT?

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES, I CAN. OKAY. IT -- IT

GIVES THE AUTHORITY FLEXIBILITY IN ESTABLISHING THE TOLL RATES SO THAT -- SO

LONG AS NET REVENUE WILL MEET OR EXCEED THE NET REVENUE REQUIREMENT.

IT ALSO ALLOWS -- WELL, THE BOND RESOLUTION ALLOWS THE AUTHORITY TO

REDUCE TOLLS FOR USE OF COMMUTING OR OTHER PRIVILEGES BASED ON

FREQUENCY, VOLUME, OCCUPANCY, CONGESTION PRICING, ET CETERA. THE

AUTHORITY COULD ALSO RESTRICT USE OF THE PERMIT TO PEAK COMMUTER HOURS

AND IF AN INDEPENDENT AUDIT SHOWS A SIGNIFICANT REVENUE LOSS, THE

THRUWAY COULD CHARGE A DISCOUNTED FEE. SO THERE'S A BUNCH OF

DIFFERENT THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE IF NEED BE.

MS. WALSH: YEAH. AND IT WAS ESPECIALLY THAT LAST

PART THAT I WAS HAPPY TO SEE THAT THERE IS FLEXIBILITY PUT INTO IT SO IT'S NOT

JUST FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS ANYBODY WHO GETS THIS PERMIT, AND THE

PERMIT YOU'LL GET -- YOU WOULD GET FOR FREE. THAT'S THE ORIGINAL IDEA, IS

YOU GET IT FOR FREE.

MR. MAGNARELLI: RIGHT.

MS. WALSH: BUT THEN DOWN THE ROAD, NO PUN

INTENDED, IF THERE -- IF THEY DO AN AUDIT AND THE AUDIT SHOWS THAT THERE'S

A SIGNIFICANT LOSS OF REVENUE --

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MR. MAGNARELLI: RIGHT.

MS. WALSH: -- THEN THERE COULD BE AN ADJUSTMENT.

AND MAYBE YOU WOULD OFFER A DISCOUNT, THE PERMITS COULD BE GOTTEN AT

A DISCOUNT ON THE CASH COST PER MILE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

MR. MAGNARELLI: RIGHT.

MS. WALSH: SO THERE IS SOME FLEXIBILITY. AND I DO

-- I DO APPRECIATE THAT PART OF IT. I THINK WHERE SOME OF OUR MEMBERS

MIGHT BE A LITTLE LESS HAPPY IS THEY'RE GONNA SAY, WELL, WHY NOT MY PART

OF THE THRUWAY? WHY -- WHY -- WHY THIS PART OF THE THRUWAY, YOU

KNOW, AND NOT MY PART OF THE THRUWAY? SO HOW DO YOU -- HOW WOULD

YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

MR. MAGNARELLI: WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND

WHAT I SAID INITIALLY IS THAT THIS IS JUST FOR THE PERIOD OF CONSTRUCTION OR

RECONSTRUCTION OF 1-81. AND THE REASON FOR THESE EXITS BEING ALLOWED

TO BE USED IN THIS WAY IS BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE EXTRAORDINARY

CIRCUMSTANCES IN DOWNTOWN SYRACUSE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE

TRAFFIC JAMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT AS EASY AS

POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO GET AROUND, AND ALSO AS EASY AS POSSIBLE AND AS

SAFE AND HEALTHY AS POSSIBLE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE AREAS THAT

ARE BEING RECONSTRUCTED.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. SO IS THIS ANYWHERE -- I'M --

AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS, THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING. BUT THE --

THE MICRON THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE COMING IN, IS THAT ANYWHERE NEAR ANY

OF THESE EXITS?

MR. MAGNARELLI: NOT REALLY -- WELL, YES. I

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MEAN, IT'S NEAR THE EXITS AS YOU GO BY SYRACUSE. BUT THIS ISN'T A MICRON

DEAL IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. THIS IS STRICTLY AN I-81 RECONSTRUCTION

PROPOSAL.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. YEAH, I WAS JUST CURIOUS ABOUT

THAT BECAUSE I THOUGHT, WELL, WE MIGHT BE BACK HERE, SOME OF US IN

2030, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA BE GIVEN ANOTHER REASON WHY WE SHOULD BE

EXTENDING OR CONTINUING THIS BECAUSE OF MAYBE MICRON COMING IN.

MR. MAGNARELLI: WELL, I HOPE I'M TALKING TO

YOU AGAIN IN THAT YEAR.

MS. WALSH: I DO, TOO. I DO, TOO. BUT I -- I HOPE WE

AREN'T GONNA DO THAT, BECAUSE THE -- YOU KNOW, IN GENERAL. BECAUSE I

THINK THIS IS KIND OF PRECEDENT-SETTING AND I THINK THAT THAT MIGHT BE A

CONCERN THAT SOME MEMBERS MIGHT HAVE, THAT WE'RE DOING IT FOR, YOU

KNOW, THIS AREA THEN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOMEBODY DOWN IN THE

HUDSON VALLEY IS GOING TO SAY, BOY, WE HAVE A BIG PROJECT, TOO. WE

NEED TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW, IN OUR AREA, TOO. SO...

MR. MAGNARELLI: WELL, AGAIN, I'D LIKE EVERYONE

TO COME TO SYRACUSE, SEE WHAT WE'RE DOING AND SEE WHAT A MAJOR

CONSTRUCTION THIS IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY.

MS. WALSH: WELL, THEY SAID THAT -- SOME PEOPLE

HAVE SAID THAT ALBANY IS LOVELY IN THE SUMMERTIME; I'M SURE SYRACUSE

IS AS WELL.

MR. MAGNARELLI: THAT COULD BE.

MS. WALSH: YEAH.

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES, IT IS.

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MS. WALSH: YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

LET'S SEE. NOW, I SAW THAT BACK IN 2017 OUR FORMER

COLLEAGUE MR. THIELE HAD A BILL THAT I THINK WAS DOING -- TRYING TO DO

THE SAME THING, BUT THE GOVERNOR VETOED IT.

MR. MAGNARELLI: MM-HMM.

MS. WALSH: BUT THIS PROJECT THAT YOU'RE TALKING

ABOUT, THIS SIGNIFICANT PROJECT IN THE INSIDE OF SYRACUSE, THAT WASN'T

GOING ON AT THAT TIME, WAS IT? WHAT WAS THE RATIONALE FOR DOING THIS

BILL BACK IN '17, IF YOU KNOW?

MR. MAGNARELLI: I -- I DON'T KNOW, BUT --

MS. WALSH: YEAH.

MR. MAGNARELLI: -- I'D LOVE TO TALK TO FRED AND

GET HIM ON THE PHONE, THAT'S FOR SURE.

MS. WALSH: WELL, I WAS -- IT WAS FUNNY BECAUSE I

WAS WONDERING, AS A -- AS A MEMBER FROM LONG ISLAND, I WAS

WONDERING WHY HE WOULD BE CARRYING A BILL THAT WOULD IMPACT, YOU

KNOW, YOUR AREA. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS BECAUSE MAYBE HE WAS

ON TRANSPORTATION.

MR. MAGNARELLI: THE ONLY THING WAS -- WAS HE

CHAIR OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AT THE TIME? THAT COULD HAVE BEEN.

MS. WALSH: YEAH, MAYBE THAT'S THE REASON. I DON'T

KNOW. ALL RIGHT. I THINK THAT -- THOSE ARE PRETTY MUCH THE QUESTIONS

THAT I'VE GOT. AT THIS POINT --

MR. MAGNARELLI: THANK YOU.

MS. WALSH: -- I'LL JUST GO ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

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THANK YOU, MR. MAGNARELLI.

MR. MAGNARELLI: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. SO, I

MEAN, JUST A COUPLE OF QUICK POINTS TO MAKE. YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT,

YOU KNOW, UNDER THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES LAW, THE STATE PLEDGED THAT IT

WOULD NOT LIMIT OR ALTER THE RIGHTS VESTED IN THE AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH

AND COLLECT FEES TO FULFILL THE TERMS OF ANY AGREEMENTS MADE WITH THE

BONDHOLDERS, NOR IN ANY WAY IMPAIR THE RIGHTS AND REMEDIES OF THE

BONDHOLDERS UNTIL THE BONDS ARE FULLY MET AND DISCHARGED. SO IN OTHER

WORDS, YOU KNOW, WE APPROVED THESE FEES TO BE CHARGED EXIT-BY-EXIT TO

TRY TO SUPPORT THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, MAYBE

THEY'RE -- THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY ISN'T AS -- AS HATED AS MAYBE SOME

OTHER AGENCIES, I GUESS. BUT THERE'S SOME -- THERE'S SOME UNPLEASANT

FEELINGS TOWARDS THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY THAT THEY'VE BEEN COLLECTING

FEES FOR A REALLY LONG TIME AND PROBABLY HAVE PAID FOR THE THRUWAY

MANY, MANY TIMES OVER AND YET HERE THEY ARE STILL CHARGING MONEY. SO

THIS IS AN ALTERATION IN THE -- THE STRUCTURE OF CHARGING AT EACH EXIT.

AND, YOU KNOW, TOLL REVENUES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ALL PLEDGED FOR THE

PAYMENT OF BONDS ISSUED UNDER THE AUTHORITY'S GENERAL REVENUE BOND

RESOLUTION. SO, YOU KNOW, I WAS THINKING THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS KIND

OF LIKE THE REVERSE OF NIMBY, "NOT IN MY BACKYARD." WE'RE ALL

GONNA BE LIKE PIMBYS, BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA BE LIKE, PLEASE, LET THIS

BE IN MY BACKYARD SO THAT AS I TRAVEL EXIT, YOU KNOW, EXIT 23, 24, 25

AND 26 TO GET BACK TO MY HOUSE, I WON'T HAVE TO PAY ANY TOLLS AT ALL.

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THAT WOULD BE SUPER. AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, THE GOVERNOR

WHEN HE VOTED THIS IN 2017, THIS IDEN -- NEARLY IDENTICAL BILL, HE WAS

ARGUING THAT THIS BILL WOULD NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE AUTHORITY'S BOND

RATING AND INCREASE THE COST OF BORROWING BY THE AUTHORITY, AND

MAINTAIN THAT THIS BILL WOULD SET A PRECEDENT TO ALLOW OTHER

JURISDICTIONS TO SEEK THIS TYPE OF REDUCTION, THUS RESULTING IN GREATER

REVENUE LOSS FOR THE STATE, WHICH WAS NOT ACCOUNTED FOR BY THE STATE IN

ITS FINANCIAL PLAN. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE -- THE WHOLE BOND

RATING THING. I DON'T KNOW. BUT THAT WAS THE REASON GIVEN IN THE -- IN

GOVERNOR CUOMO'S VETO BACK IN 2017. AND I DID TRY TO ADDRESS DURING

DEBATE THE IDEA OF IT BEING POTENTIALLY PRECEDENT-SETTING.

I DO LIKE PARTS OF THE LEGISLATION. I LIKE THE FACT THAT IT

HAS BUILT-IN FLEXIBILITY IN THE SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THIS AUDIT GETS

DONE AND THEY FIGURE OUT THAT, HEY, WE'RE JUST LOSING TOO MUCH REVENUE.

WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT. THAT CAN BE DONE. AND ALSO

THAT ALTHOUGH THE PERMITS, AT LEAST INITIALLY, WILL BE ISSUED FREE OF

CHARGE, THAT DEPENDING ON HOW THINGS WORK OUT WITH REVENUE LOSS OVER

THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, THERE COULD BE A CHARGE THAT'S MAYBE AT A

DISCOUNTED RATE PER MILE FOR THESE PERMITS. SO I DO LIKE THAT ASPECT OF

IT. BUT I WOULD EXPECT THAT THERE WILL BE VOTES MAYBE ON BOTH SIDES OF

THE ISSUE, AND I JUST APPRECIATE THAT THE SPONSOR GAVE ME A LITTLE TIME TO

JUST TRY TO SHINE A LITTLE LIGHT ON THE PROS AND THE CONS OF THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION.

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

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MR. GALLAHAN.

MR. GALLAHAN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GALLAHAN: I HAVE ONE QUESTION. IS THERE A

FEE FOR THE PERMIT?

MR. MAGNARELLI: RIGHT NOW IT'LL BE FREE.

MR. GALLAHAN: IT'LL BE FREE.

MR. MAGNARELLI: BUT IT COULD BE IF THERE'S AN

AUDIT AND IT SHOWS THAT IT'S NEEDED.

MR. GALLAHAN: OKAY. SO CURRENTLY, HOW DO --

AM I GONNA BE ABLE TO ONLINE THROUGH MY E-ZPASS ACCOUNT AND APPLY

FOR THIS PERMIT AND HAVE IT APPLIED TO MY E-ZPASS TAG?

MR. MAGNARELLI: I -- I THINK THEY DO. AND THEY

DO HAVE A PERMIT PROGRAM AS WE SPEAK WHERE YOU GET A DISCOUNTED

PERMIT FOR THE THRUWAY.

MR. GALLAHAN: THEY DO. YOU'RE RIGHT. I

CURRENTLY PARTICIPATE. IT'S $80 A YEAR ANNUAL FEE.

MR. MAGNARELLI: $88.

MR. GALLAHAN: IT GIVE ME X AMOUNT OF MILES ON

THE THRUWAY FOR FREE AND THEN A REDUCED RATE FOR THE NEXT EXIT AND THEN

REGULAR FEES AFTER THAT. SO, I MEAN, THAT'S AVAILABLE TO ANYBODY IN THE

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STATE CURRENTLY. IT'S AN $80 FEE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. GALLAHAN: I -- I CAN APPRECIATE THIS. MY

DISTRICT RUNS FROM ONTARIO COUNTY TO MADISON COUNTY TO BROOME

COUNTY. BUT I'VE GOT A PROBLEM BECAUSE I'VE GOT FIVE OF THE FINGER

LAKES THAT RUN DOWN THROUGH MY DISTRICT, AND I CANNOT TAKE A BOAT

ACROSS THESE FIVE FINGER LAKES. SO I HAVE TO GET ON 90, THE THRUWAY,

GO ALL THE WAY TO SYRACUSE, EXIT 39, JUMP 690 AND THEN GO DOWN 81.

AND I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT A PLEASANT TRIP. THERE'S A LOT OF

CONSTRUCTION GOING ON DOWN THERE, AND ANY KIND OF RELIEF THAT I CAN GET

GOING DOWN THE THRUWAY CURRENTLY WILL AT LEAST MAKE ME FEEL A LITTLE

BIT BETTER AND KEEP THE ROAD RAGE OUT OF MY HEAD.

SO I WILL -- I WILL BE IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL. I WILL BE

VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL, AND WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE NEXT FEW

YEARS AND HOPEFULLY I WON'T HAVE TO PAY ANOTHER FEE TO GET THIS PERMIT.

SO, THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. REILLY.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR A QUESTION?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

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MR. REILLY: THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. MAGNARELLI.

SO WITH THIS -- WITH THIS LEGISLATION, WAS THERE ANY

MONEY DESIGNATED IN THE BUDGET TO REIMBURSE THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY?

MR. MAGNARELLI: NO, SIR.

MR. REILLY: SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO -- WE DIDN'T HAVE

TO HAVE AN OFFSET IN THE BUDGET TO REIMBURSE THEM AT ALL?

MR. MAGNARELLI: NO. YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE THAT

IT ISN'T GOING TO BE THAT SIGNIFICANT. AND THAT AS FAR AS BONDS AND

EVERYTHING ELSE ARE CONCERNED, WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SHOW, OR THE

THRUWAY AUTHORITY WILL BE ABLE TO SHOW, THAT IT HAS THE REVENUES

WITHOUT THIS, WITHOUT THESE TOLLS IN THESE FEW EXITS, TO MAKE SURE THAT

ALL REQUIREMENTS ARE MET.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO THE REASON WHY I ASK THAT

QUESTION IS EACH YEAR, RESIDENTS OF STATEN ISLAND IN RICHMOND COUNTY,

WE HAVE TO FIGHT FOR OUR RESIDENT DISCOUNT ON THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE

FROM ANOTHER AUTHORITY, RIGHT, THE -- THE MTA, AND THERE HAS TO BE AN

ALLOCATION IN THE BUDGET TO OFFSET OUR RESIDENT DISCOUNT TO GO OVER THE

VERRAZANO BRIDGE BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE BRIDGES AND ONE FERRY TO GET

HOME. SO THAT'S WHY -- DO YOU THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE NEXT

YEAR THERE MAY BE A NEED TO DESIGNATE MONEY IN THE BUDGET TO

REIMBURSE THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY?

MR. MAGNARELLI: I -- I HAVE NOT TALKED TO

ANYONE ABOUT DESIGNATING MONEY IN THE BUDGET FOR ANY OF THESE TYPES

OF PROGRAMS.

MR. REILLY: ALL RIGHT.

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MR. MAGNARELLI: I THINK YOU HAVE TO COME UP

WITH AT LEAST A RATIONALE AS TO WHY REVENUES WILL BE SUFFICIENT TO COVER

WHATEVER REQUIREMENTS THE AUTHORITY HAS.

MR. REILLY: ANOTHER -- ANOTHER REASON I'M ASKING

IS USUALLY WHEN WE HAVE BILLS LIKE THIS THAT HAVE A FISCAL IMPACT ON OUR

AUTHORITIES, WE SEE IT WHEN WE GO THROUGH -- WHEN WE HAVE BILLS IN

COMMITTEES THAT IF THERE'S A FISCAL IMP -- IMPLICATION THERE HAS TO BE A

BUDGET ALLOCATION. AT LEAST THAT'S THE ANSWER WE GET WITH OUR BILLS ON

THE MINORITY SIDE THAT GET HELD IN COMMITTEE. SO DO YOU FORESEE THAT

BEING AN ISSUE? MEANING THE ISSUE OF FISCAL -- FISCAL ALLOCATION FOR THIS.

MR. MAGNARELLI: I DON'T. AND I THINK THE

RATIONALE IS WHAT I DISCUSSED WITH OUR COLLEAGUE A LITTLE BIT EARLIER

ABOUT THE FLEXIBILITY BUILT INTO THE BILL, THAT IF THERE IS A NEED FOR THOSE

FEES TO BE INCREASED OR TO BE IMPLEMENTED, THEN THE THRUWAY

AUTHORITY COULD DO THAT. THE OTHER PART OF THIS IS THAT THIS IS NOT

FOREVER. THIS IS A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME DURING A PERIOD OF CONSTRUCTION.

THERE IS A NEED FOR IT. AND I'M NOT SAYING THERE ISN'T A NEED SOMEPLACE

ELSE, BUT THIS IS QUITE DIFFERENT. IT'S NOT A NEED THAT'S GOING TO GO ON

FOREVER; IT'S A NEED THAT'S THERE DURING A CONSTRUCTION PERIOD. AND WHAT

WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS JUST GIVE A LITTLE FLEXIBILITY TO THE AUTHORITY AND

SAY, LOOK IT, IF THERE IS NO NEED FOR THESE FEES DURING THIS SHORT PERIOD

OF TIME, IT WILL AFFECT A LOT OF PEOPLE, THEIR HEALTH AND THEIR SAFETY.

MR. REILLY: SO WERE THERE ANY NUMBERS THAT WERE

GIVEN THAT -- PROJECTIONS FOR THE FIVE YEARS HOW MUCH REVENUE THE

THRUWAY WOULD LOSE?

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MR. MAGNARELLI: I THINK WE HAD THIS NUMBER,

AM I CORRECT?

(CONFERENCING)

YEAH, IT'S KIND OF -- WITH THE -- WE DON'T HAVE ANY REAL

NUMBERS FROM ANY OF THE EXITS, PER SE, SINCE 2016, IF I'M CORRECT. AND

IT COULD BE $11 MILLION A YEAR TOTAL.

MR. REILLY: $11 MILLION A YEAR.

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES. THAT'S ON THE PERMIT.

MR. REILLY: SO WHAT ARE THOSE -- YOU SAID

SOMETHING ABOUT 2016. SO ARE THOSE NUMBERS FROM 2016 BEFORE RATES

WENT UP?

MR. MAGNARELLI: WELL, REVENUE FROM CURRENT

PERMIT HOLDERS -- THIS IS WHAT MR. GALLAGHER [SIC] HAD SPOKEN ABOUT --

IF YOU HAVE A-- A PERMIT. FOR PERMIT HOLDERS IN THE EXITS WHERE THIS

PERMIT WOULD BE ALLOWED WAS $1.3 MILLION BACK IN 2016. $1.3 MILLION.

MR. REILLY: SO NINE YEARS AGO, 1 --

MR. MAGNARELLI: YUP. YUP.

MR. REILLY: ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT LEAST $6

MILLION IF WE DON'T ALLOCATE FOR REVENUE THAT WENT UP AND MAYBE MORE

PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE.

MR. MAGNARELLI: COULD BE. COULD BE. BUT WE

ALSO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY OF ADDING TO THE REVENUE IF WE HAVE TO. IF IT

CAUSES ANY PROBLEMS.

MR. REILLY: SO WHY NOT JUST START WITH A

DISCOUNTED -- AN EVEN FURTHER DISCOUNT IN THE AREA?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. MAGNARELLI: IT'S ZERO.

MR. REILLY: NO, NO. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. WHY

NOT START WITH A PAID DISCOUNT? LIKE, HAVE THEM PAY FOR THE PERMIT

INSTEAD OF JUST GIVING IT AWAY FOR ZERO?

MR. MAGNARELLI: WELL, I -- I THINK THERE'S TWO

FOLDS TO THE BILL, OR THE RATIONALE THAT I HAD FOR THIS BILL IS TO HAVE

PEOPLE USE IT. RIGHT NOW THEY'RE NOT USED TO GETTING ON THE THRUWAY TO

GET FROM THE NORTH SIDE OF OUR COUNTY TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE COUNTY OR

EAST AND WEST. WE WANT THEM TO USE IT SO THEY DON'T GO THROUGH THE

MIDDLE OF THE CITY OF SYRACUSE, WHICH THEY DO NOW BECAUSE OF I-81

AND 690, WHICH CRISS-CROSS EACH OTHER. THOSE ROUTES ARE GOING TO BE

DOWN. SO THE IDEA WAS TO GET THEM TO USE A DIFFERENT ROUTE.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. MAGNARELLI.

MR. MAGNARELLI: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MR. REILLY: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. REILLY: SO THE -- THE QUESTION I HAVE IS HOW

MUCH MONEY IS GOING TO BE ASKED OF US IN THE BUDGET NEXT YEAR?

BECAUSE IF WE'RE LOOKING AT PROJECTIONS THAT ARE FROM 2016 AND WE ARE

IN 2025, TEN YEARS WILL BE NEXT YEAR, I'M SURE THAT THE MONEY THAT THOSE

EXITS TOOK IN IS PROBABLY SUBSTANTIALLY MORE THAN THE $1.3 MILLION THAT

WAS JUST SAID WAS ALLOCATED -- WELL, TAKEN IN IN REVENUE IN 2016.

IT'S JUST DISHEARTENING WHEN YOU COME FROM AN ISLAND

THAT THERE'S ONLY FOUR BRIDGES; THREE FOR THE PORT AUTHORITY, WHICH IS

NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY, AND ONE, THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE WITH THE

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MTA. AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE CAN GO IN AND OUT ON OUR OWN BY

DRIVING. AND EVERY YEAR WE HAVE TO FIGHT TOOTH-AND-NAIL TO KEEP THE

RESIDENT DISCOUNT. NOW, THAT TOLL ON THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE IS $19 NOW.

RESIDENT DISCOUNTS, YES. WE ARE VERY THANKFUL FOR GETTING THE RESIDENT

DISCOUNT WHICH EQUATES TO ABOUT $6, JUST UNDER $6. BUT WE STILL PAY.

THE REASON WHY I BRING THAT UP IS BECAUSE IT WAS MENTIONED DURING THIS

DEBATE THAT THERE ARE GONNA BE OTHER AREAS THAT ARE ASKING, WHY NOT US?

BUT IT'S SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. THIS IS GOING TO BE FOR FIVE YEARS.

AND JUST LIKE OTHER LEGISLATION THAT HAS COME BEFORE THIS BODY, TAKE FOR

INSTANCE -- AND I KNOW I'M GONNA SPEAK ON SOMETHING ELSE -- THE SPEED

CAMERAS. IT WAS A FIVE-YEAR DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM. IT WAS EXTENDED

IN YEAR TWO. BACK IN 2014 IT WAS EXPENDED -- EXTENDED IN 2016. THE

REASON WHY I BRING THAT UP IS BECAUSE, YES, WE ALL HAVE GOOD INTENTIONS

USUALLY WHEN THESE BILLS SAY OH, IT'S GONNA BE FOR FIVE YEARS AND THEN

ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S EXTENDED.

I JUST WANT US TO BE COGNIZANT THAT WHEN WE SAY THAT

WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING, LET'S MAKE SURE WE STICK TO IT. BECAUSE IF

THIS GETS EXTENDED, I'M SURE THERE ARE GONNA BE OTHER AREAS IN THE STATE

THAT ARE GONNA BE UPSET. AND THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, WHY NOT US? WE

HAVE CONSTRUCTION ON THE STATEN ISLAND EXPRESSWAY. WE HAVE

CONSTRUCTION ON THE GOWANUS EXPRESSWAY, AS MY BROOKLYN COLLEAGUES

WILL TELL YOU. I LIVED IN THAT AREA IN BROOKLYN. THAT'S BEEN UNDER

CONSTRUCTION SINCE I WAS, LIKE, NINE, AND THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO. SO

PLEASE JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. STIRPE.

MR. STIRPE: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. STIRPE: NOW, ISN'T THE DIFFERENCE OF WHAT OUR

COLLEAGUE WAS TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN CENTRAL NEW

YORK IS THAT HIS CARS ARE ALREADY GOING OVER THOSE ROADS ALL THE TIME. IN

CENTRAL NEW YORK, THE DRIVERS WHO DRIVE LOCALLY ARE NOT ON THE

THRUWAY. SO THE ACTUAL AMOUNT OF TOLLS SHOULDN'T REALLY GO DOWN

BECAUSE THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T NORMALLY GO ON THAT ROAD; ISN'T THAT

CORRECT?

MR. MAGNARELLI: WELL, THAT IS CORRECT AS FAR AS

THE ADDITIONAL ONES, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT

TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.

MR. STIRPE: OKAY. SO IN THIS SITUATION IT'S -- IT'S

REALLY DIFFERENT THAN IN OTHER SITUATIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TALKING

ABOUT.

MR. MAGNARELLI: I THINK SO. I -- I

WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE WITH YOU.

MR. STIRPE: OKAY. THANK YOU.

MR. MAGNARELLI: THANK YOU.

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ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MILLER.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. MILLER: THIS I-81 PROJECT IS GOING TO BE A

MAJOR UNDERTAKING IN THE SYRACUSE AREA WHICH IS GOING TO AFFECT

MOTORISTS FROM ALL OVER THE GREATER SYRACUSE AREA AND IT'S GONNA REACH

AS FAR AS EAST AS PROBABLY WELL INTO MADISON COUNTY AND FAR WEST INTO

OUR NEIGHBORING COUNTIES ALL ALONG THAT THRUWAY CORRIDOR. IT'S NOT ONLY

GONNA BE A CONGESTION PROBLEM, IT'S GONNA BE A TRAFFIC SAFETY PROBLEM

FOR A LOT OF THE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS. AND THIS IS ONLY GOING TO BE A

TEMPORARY -- TEMPORARY HALT IN -- IN TOLLS.

YOU KNOW, BEING SOMEBODY WHO DROVE THAT -- THAT

CORRIDOR AND THAT AREA FOR MANY YEARS -- I WAS A SALES ENGINEER IN MY

PREVIOUS LIFE BEFORE I CAME HERE -- IN THE SYRACUSE AREA PRIMARILY AND

WE USED ALL THE ROADS AND PRIMARILY -- PRIMARILY THE THRUWAY CORRIDOR

TO GET TO POINT A TO POINT B TO BYPASS ANY CONSTRUCTION.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I REALLY WANT TO STRESS IS THIS

I-81 RECONSTRUCTION IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR, MAJOR RECONSTRUCTION

THROUGHOUT THE GREATER SYRACUSE AREA, AND I REALLY FEEL THIS -- THIS BILL

WILL GET THE MOTORISTS OFF THE SIDE ROADS, MAKE THE CONSTRUCTION SAFER,

MAKE THEIR -- MAKE THEIR -- THEIR COMMUTE QUICKER, AND WE'LL REVIEW IT

AFTER -- AFTER THAT'S ALL OVER.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

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MR. FITZPATRICK.

MR. FITZPATRICK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR ANSWER A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. MAGNARELLI: YES, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. FITZPATRICK: THANK YOU, MR. MAGNARELLI.

YOU MENTIONED BEFORE THAT THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY BELIEVES IT CAN

MEET ITS OBLIGATIONS I'M ASSUMING TO THE BONDHOLDERS BECAUSE OF THE

QUESTION RAISED ABOUT THE BONDS. ARE THEY -- THEY BELIEVE THEY CAN

MEET THEIR OBLIGATIONS, CORRECT?

MR. MAGNARELLI: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. FITZPATRICK: THAT LOSS OF REVENUE. WHAT

ABOUT THE COST OF MAINTENANCE, REPAIR? ANY LABOR CONTRACTS, ANY, YOU

KNOW, CONTRACTED OBLIGATIONS? IS IT -- THOSE COSTS, WOULD THEY SUFFER

ANY POSSIBLE LOSS OR DIFFICULTY IF THEY LOST THAT REVENUE?

MR. MAGNARELLI: GIVE ME ONE SECOND.

MR. FITZPATRICK: NOT JUST THE BONDS.

(PAUSE)

WOULD THAT LOSS OF REVENUE CREATE PRESSURE ON THEIR

OTHER OPERATIONS?

MR. MAGNARELLI: I -- I DON'T BELIEVE SO AND

THAT'S WHY WE PUT IN THE BILL THE FLEXIBILITY THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT

BEFORE. IF THERE IS ANY PRESSURE TO ANY EXTENT THEY CAN RAISE THE FEE FOR

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THAT PASS.

(CROSS-TALK)

MR. FITZPATRICK: -- FOR THE FREE TRANSPORTATION --

(CROSS-TALK)

MR. MAGNARELLI: CORRECT. FROM ZERO TO SO

MUCH A MILE, YEAH.

MR. FITZPATRICK: OKAY. SO LET ME ASK YOU,

RATHER THAN PASSING LEGISLATION, THEY HAVE A BOARD OF OVERSEERS OR A

BOARD OF DIRECTORS OR TRUSTEES FOR THE AUTHORITY, CORRECT, THEY HAVE A

BOARD.

MR. MAGNARELLI: THERE'S A BOARD, YES.

MR. FITZPATRICK: SO WHAT IS PREVENTING THAT

BOARD FROM REDUCING THE TOLLS SAY TO ZERO FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, BECAUSE

MY CONCERN IS IF WE DO THIS LEGISLATIVELY -- YOU KNOW, EVERY TWO YEARS

WE PASS EXTENDERS FOR SALES TAX, HOTEL/MOTEL TAX, ET CETERA, AND, YOU

KNOW, I'M SURE THERE ARE TAXPAYERS WHO DO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS AND

THEY HOPE EACH EVERY TWO YEARS THAT THOSE TAXES WILL SOME DAY

DISAPPEAR, BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT ONCE A TAX IS IMPOSED IT NEVER

DISAPPEARS. WELL, THE SAME WILL HAPPEN WITH SOMETHING THAT'S FREE. SO

FIVE YEARS FROM NOW WHEN IF YOU'RE STILL HERE OR IF YOUR SUCCESSOR SAY

IN FIVE YEARS SAYS, GEEZ, THIS FIVE YEAR GIFT IS NOW OVER, I'M UNDER

TREMENDOUS PRESSURE TO EXTEND THIS BENEFIT FOR ANOTHER TWO, FOUR, FIVE

YEARS, THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. AND THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO GET A

RUSH FROM ALL THE OTHER AREAS OF THE STATE THAT HEY, WE WANT THIS, TOO.

SO THAT'S THE FEAR I HAVE OF GRANTING SOMETHING LIKE THIS WHEN THE

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BOARD OF DIRECTORS, THE DIRECTORS OF THE AUTHORITY CAN DO THIS NOW

WITHOUT OUR INTERVENTION. WHY AREN'T THEY -- HAVE THEY CONSIDERED

THAT, AND IF THEY DIDN'T, WHY NOT?

MR. MAGNARELLI: I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO

THAT. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEM. AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE IT AND THAT'S WHY

WE'RE DOING IT.

MR. FITZPATRICK: BUT I -- I WOULD THINK WE

SHOULD APPLY MAYBE SOME PRESSURE FROM THE GOVERNOR, THROUGH THE

LEGISLATURE TO HAVE THEM ASK THEM FIRST, ARE YOU WILLING TO DO THIS, WILL

YOU DO THIS, WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO DO THIS AND LET'S KEEP OUR FINGERS

CROSSED THAT THEY DO IT RATHER THAN HAVE US DO IT BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO

COME UNDER TREMENDOUS PRESSURE IN FIVE YEARS, EITHER YOU OR YOUR

PREDECESSOR TO EXTEND THIS FREEBIE FOR ANOTHER PERIOD, JUST LIKE WE DO

TAX BILLS, AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO SET A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT BECAUSE

NOW EVERYONE ELSE IS GOING TO WANT THAT BENEFIT, ALSO. AND WE JUST

WON'T BE ABLE TO AFFORD THAT.

MR. MAGNARELLI: I THINK --

MR. FITZPATRICK: SO I WOULD SAY LET'S GO BACK TO

THE DRAWING BOARD AND LET'S ASK THE BOARD AT THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY TO

LOWER THOSE RATES BECAUSE IF THEY'RE TELLING YOU THAT WE CAN MEET ALL OF

OUR OBLIGATIONS, THEN THAT RAISES THE QUESTION YOU'RE OVERCHARGING US,

YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SYSTEM BECAUSE IT'S THE REST OF THE

SYSTEM THAT'S GOING TO PAY FOR THE BENEFIT OF -- TO PAY FOR THE BENEFIT OF

THE PEOPLE IN AND AROUND SYRACUSE, AND I DON'T BEGRUDGE THEM THAT

BENEFIT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE PROBLEMS INVOLVED WITH THIS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

CONSTRUCTION PROJECT ARE REAL, BUT THEN AGAIN WE'RE ASKING OTHERS TO PICK

UP THE -- THE COST WHEN THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY IS TELLING THE SPONSOR,

YOU, THAT WE'LL HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO MEET OUR OBLIGATIONS. SO I'M

ASSUMING THAT'S THE BONDS, IT'S MAINTENANCE, REPAIR, ET CETERA, SO THEY

HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THIS BY THEMSELVES ALREADY WITHOUT COMING TO US.

MR. MAGNARELLI: WELL, I'M ASSUMING THAT THEY

DO. I'M NOT POSITIVE THAT THEY DO. I'M AGREEING WITH YOU.

MR. FITZPATRICK: OKAY.

MR. MAGNARELLI: BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU

KNOW, I FEEL THIS IS THE WAY TO DO IT BECAUSE IT WILL GET DONE IF WE PASS

IT AND THE GOVERNOR SIGNS IT.

MR. FITZPATRICK: ALL RIGHT.

MR. MAGNARELLI: I THINK IT'S VERY MUCH NEEDED

IN THE AREA. I DO BELIEVE WE PUT ENOUGH FLEXIBILITY IN THE STATUTE TO

ALLOW THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY TO MEET ITS NEEDS. IF NEED BE, IT COULD DO

WHAT IT HAS TO DO. AND ANOTHER THING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED

THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR IT. REMEMBER TAXPAYERS DON'T PAY FOR

THE THRUWAY. IT'S ALL TOLLS, IT'S ALL TOLLS. AND AS MY COLLEAGUE ACROSS

THE ROOM THERE MENTIONED, THESE ARE ADDITIONAL PEOPLE THAT REALLY DON'T

USE THE THRUWAY ON A DAILY BASIS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET AT.

SO THE AMOUNTS OF REVENUE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT I DON'T -- I THINK I

MAY HAVE MISSPOKE WHEN I GAVE THOSE FIGURES TO MY COLLEAGUE OVER

HERE. (INDICATING) I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW MUCH WE'RE GOING TO LOSE IN

TERMS OF REVENUES GOING DOWN. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE

HAPPENED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS INCLUDING TOLL INCREASES AND OTHER

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THINGS. SO I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE LOSING SIGNIFICANTS

AMOUNT OF REVENUES. I BELIEVE THAT THE THRUWAY IS GOING TO CONSIDER --

CONTINUE TO OPERATE MEETING ALL OF ITS BOND OBLIGATIONS AND

MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR COSTS AS WELL.

MR. FITZPATRICK: OKAY, VERY GOOD. THANK YOU,

MR. MAGNARELLI.

MR. MAGNARELLI: THANK YOU.

MR. FITZPATRICK: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. FITZPATRICK: I'M VERY SYMPATHETIC TO THE

PLIGHT OF THE LOCAL RESIDENTS WHO WOULD NORMALLY TRAVEL ON LOCAL ROADS,

BUT BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT WILL BE FORCED TO USE THE -- THE

THRUWAY. AND I'M NOT NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO DOING THIS, BUT I DON'T

THINK THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE PASSING A BILL TO ACCOMPLISH THIS. I

THINK DISCUSSION, FRANKLY, WHOEVER APPOINTS THOSE TRUSTEES TO THE

THRUWAY AUTHORITY, WHETHER IT'S THE GOVERNOR OR THE LEGISLATURE,

WHOEVER IT IS SHOULD APPLY OR HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THAT THRUWAY

AUTHORITY AND GET THEM TO EITHER LOWER THOSE TOLL RATES AND DO THAT

INTERNALLY WITHOUT COMING TO THE LEGISLATURE, BECAUSE MY REAL FEAR IS

ONCE A BENEFIT IS GRANTED, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO RESCIND. AND THERE WILL

BE TREMENDOUS PRESSURE AFTER FIVE YEARS OF TRAVELING THAT ROADWAY FOR

FREE TO NOW HAVE TO GO BACK AND PAY TO USE IT. SO JUST AS WE EXTEND

TAXES EVERY TWO YEARS, WE'RE GOING TO START EXTENDING BENEFITS EVERY

TWO OR FIVE YEARS AND THAT WILL START TO SNOWBALL AND THEN WE'RE GOING

TO HAVE SOME FISCAL DIFFICULTIES, AND THEN AT THAT POINT WE WILL HAVE

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TROUBLE PAYING THE BONDS AND MEETING THOSE OBLIGATIONS. WHAT THE

GOVERNOR'S VETO STATED IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I'VE WORKED FOR MANY

YEARS IN THE INDUSTRY SELLING BONDS AND THERE ARE A LOT OF WIDOWS OUT

THERE WHO ARE DEPENDING ON THAT REVENUE FROM THE BOND INTEREST

PAYMENTS TO MEET THEIR OBLIGATIONS. SO IF THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY CAN

AFFORD TO MEET ITS OBLIGATIONS AS PREDICTED BY THE SPONSOR, THEN THEY

SHOULD ON THEIR OWN INITIATIVE LOWER THOSE TOLL RATES AND NOT HAVE US

ENTER INTO THAT CONVERSATION BECAUSE YOU SET UP AUTHORITIES TO INSULATE

THEM FROM POLITICS. WE HERE ARE NOT INSULATED FROM POLITICS. SO -- AND

THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, FROM A FISCAL STANDPOINT WE'RE IN SO MUCH

TROUBLE IN MANY REGARDS.

SO FOR THAT REASON I -- UNFORTUNATELY I'M NOT GOING TO

BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THIS BILL. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 120TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MS. GLICK TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. GLICK: THANK YOU, MS. SPEAKER. JUST TO

BRIEFLY EXPLAIN MY VOTE AND TO REMIND THE BODY THAT THERE'S MORE THAN

ONE ISLAND IN NEW YORK CITY. IN FACT, MANHATTAN IS AN ISLAND. AND

THERE IS QUEENS AND BROOKLYN ARE PART OF A LARGER ISLAND THAT EXTENDS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

OUT TO THE EAST END. SO IT'S JUST FOR POINT OF CLARIFICATION. I WITHDRAW

MY REQUEST AND VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. GLICK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MRS. PEOPLES-

STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE ON OUR DEBATE LIST AND START WITH

RULES REPORT NO. 570 BY MR. WEPRIN, RULES REPORT NO. 587 BY MS.

SOLAGES, RULES REPORT NO. 593 BY MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN, RULES

REPORT NO. 617 BY MR. WIEDER AND RULES REPORT NO. 639 BY MS.

ROSENTHAL. IN THAT ORDER, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

PAGE 15, RULES REPORT NO. 570, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06576-B, RULES

REPORT NO. 570, WEPRIN, ANDERSON, ALVAREZ, CRUZ, JACKSON, DE LOS

SANTOS, RIVERA, TAPIA, CUNNINGHAM, MEEKS, BERGER, TORRES, WRIGHT,

DAIS, TAYLOR, REYES, LUCAS, KAY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

BUSINESS LAW AND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO REQUIRING

PEER-TO-PEER CAR SHARING PROGRAMS PROVIDE CERTAIN INSURANCE COVERAGE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

WEPRIN, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. WEPRIN.

MR. WEPRIN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS

BILL AMENDS SECTIONS 901 AND 905 OF THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW AND

SECTION 2131 OF THE INSURANCE LAW, TO REQUIRE PEER-TO-PEER CAR SHARING

PLATFORMS TO PROVIDE THREE TIMES THE STATE MANDATED INSURANCE

MINIMUMS IN -- IN LIEU OF THE CURRENT 1.25 MILLION. THE BILL ALSO

REQUIRES PEER-TO-PEER CAR SHARING PLATFORMS TO OFFER CONSUMERS ACCESS

TO HIGHER LEVELS OF COVERAGE BY PROVIDING THEM THE OPTION TO PURCHASE

SUPPLEMENTAL LIABILITY INSURANCE FOR SLI. FINALLY, THIS BILL WOULD MAKE

IT SO THAT PEER-TO-PEER CAR SHARING PLATFORMS MUST ADEQUATELY DISCLOSE

THE COVERAGE AVAILABLE TO CONSUMERS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. JENSEN.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM

SPEAKER. WILL MY FRIEND, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE INSURANCE COMMITTEE

AND THE GENTLEMAN FROM QUEENS, YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS ON THIS VERY

IMPORTANT TOPIC?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. WEPRIN: I'D BE HAPPY TO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MR. WEPRIN. I -- I

APPRECIATE YOU YIELDING. SO, CURRENTLY IN NEW YORK STATE, HOW MANY

OF THESE PEER-TO-PEER CAR SHARING COMPANIES ARE CURRENTLY LICENSED TO

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OPERATE?

MR. WEPRIN: THERE'S REALLY ONLY ONE AT THIS POINT.

THERE WAS A COMPANY CALLED GETAROUND AND THEY LEFT THE MARKET

BECAUSE OF THAT ADDITIONAL 1.25 MILLION COVERAGE THAT WAS NOT REQUIRED

IN ANY OTHER STATE OF THE 50 STATES. SO, THE CURRENT COMPANY IS CALLED

TURO.

MR. JENSEN: OKAY. SO, THIS LEGISLATION AND -- AND

PER YOUR EXPLANATION, CURRENTLY PEER-TO-PEER CAR SHARING, THIS ONE

COMPANY TURO, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE $1.25 MILLION OF COVERAGE FOR

EACH OF THE VEHICLES CURRENTLY PART OF THE PROGRAM, CORRECT?

MR. WEPRIN: CORRECT.

MR. JENSEN: AND YOUR PROPOSAL IS TAKING IT DOWN

TO THREE TIMES THE MINIMUM. SO, THE MINIMUM COVERAGE PER VEHICLE IS

25,000, CORRECT? AND WE'RE -- WE'RE BRINGING THEM UP TO HAVE A

MINIMUM OF 75,000 PER VEHICLE?

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, IT'S ACTUALLY -- IT'LL BE 75-, 150-

AND 30-.

MR. JENSEN: OKAY. SO, IF -- LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE,

THAT SOMEBODY WHO'S UTILIZING THIS PLATFORM, I IMAGE IT'S DONE THROUGH

AN APP, BUT THEY'RE UTILIZING THIS PROGRAM AND A -- A DRIVER HITS A -- A

CHILD PEDESTRIAN, SAY SUFFERS BRAIN TRAUMA AFTER BEING STRUCK BY A

VEHICLE THAT'S PART OF THIS PROGRAM. WHAT WOULD THEIR MAXIMUM

RECOVERY BE UNDER THIS LEGISLATION?

MR. WEPRIN: A BODILY INJURY WOULD BE 75- .

MR. JENSEN: SO, IT WOULD BE 7,500 TO COVER THE

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LIFETIME OF MEDICAL CARE, REHABILITATION AND SUPPORT, IN THIS EXAMPLE,

FOR A CHILD THAT WOULD'VE SUSTAINED A TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY FROM AN

ACCIDENT CAUSED BY AN OPERATOR OF ONE OF THESE VEHICLES?

MR. WEPRIN: IT WAS 75,000, BUT I WANT TO POINT OUT

THAT EVEN AT THREE TIMES THE MINIMUM, NEW YORK STATE WILL BE THE

HIGHEST MINIMUM FOR THIS TYPE OF OPERATION THAN ALL OTHER 50 STATES.

MR. JENSEN: OKAY, BUT IT'S STILL ONLY A MINIMUM OF

$75,000 FOR ANY PERSONAL INJURY THAT IS CAUSED THROUGH NEGLIGENT

OPERATION OF A VEHICLE THAT IS PROCURED THROUGH THIS PEER-TO-PEER CAR

SHARING MECHANISM.

MR. WEPRIN: YES, EXCEPT AS I POINTED OUT EARLIER

WHEN I WAS EXPLAINING THE BILL, YOU CAN -- YOU CAN OBTAIN ADDITIONAL

INSURANCE ON YOUR OWN AS -- AS PART OF THIS PROGRAM.

MR. JENSEN: OKAY. SO, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT

PEER-TO-PEER RIDE-SHARING, CAR-SHARING IS -- IS CONSIDERED A RISKY

ENDEAVOR, AND IT'S SO RISKY IN THE -- IN FACT, THAT SOME CREDIT CARD

COMPANIES, I THINK A GREAT DEAL, ARE SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDING THEM FROM

COVERAGE UNDER THEIR MODEL. AND WITH THE EXAMPLE THAT'S LICENSED IN

THE STATE, BEING A PLACE FOR SOMETIMES INEXPERIENCED, SOMETIMES

YOUNG DRIVERS AND SOMETIMES MAYBE CARS THAT SHOULD GO FASTER THAN

THEY OUGHT TO, WOULDN'T REDUCING THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS WITHOUT

DATA ON ACCIDENTS AND CRIMINAL ACTIVITY BE PREMATURE?

MR. WEPRIN: NOT REALLY. AGAIN, WE'RE ONLY --

WE'RE REDUCING IT TO MAINTAIN A MARKET IN NEW YORK STATE. AS I

POINTED OUT, THERE WAS ONE OTHER COMPANY, GETAROUND, WHICH LEFT NEW

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YORK BECAUSE OF THAT 1.25 MILLION AND THERE ARE 49 OTHER STATES THAT

HAVE LESS THAN THREE TIMES THE MINIMUM. SO, WE -- WITH THIS STATUTE, IF

-- IF WE PASS IT, WILL STILL BE THE HIGHEST MINIMUM FOR THIS TYPE OF

SERVICE IN THE UNITED STATES.

MR. JENSEN: BUT WOULDN'T IT MAKE SENSE TO DO PART

OF A LARGER STUDY, YOU KNOW, WHETHER BY DFS OR ANOTHER AGENCY, ON

THE USE OF THIS PLATFORM FOR INCIDENCES WHERE THE OPERATOR OF THESE

VEHICLES THROUGH THIS SYSTEM MAY BE UTILIZING THE WAY THAT WE HAVE

HIGHER THAN EXPECTED RATES OF PERSONAL INJURY, ACCIDENTS, CRIMINAL

ACTIVITY, AS OPPOSED TO GOING THROUGH MORE OF THE TRADITIONAL RENTAL

MODELS? WOULDN'T IT MAKE MORE SENSE TO -- TO FIND OUT WHETHER OR NOT

THERE IS A HIGHER LEVEL OF INHERIT NEED FOR HIGHER COVERAGE?

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, WE'VE HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY TO

HAVE THE PEER-TO-PEER CAR SHARING ONLY SINCE 2021. WE WERE ACTUALLY

THE LAST STATE TO ENACT THIS AND IT'S WORKED VERY SUCCESSFULLY IN -- IN 49

STATES.

MR. JENSEN: SO -- SO, IN THAT RESPECT AND -- AND I'M

GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP THE FACT THAT THE -- IT'S ONLY BEEN IN OPERATION FOR

LESS THAN FIVE YEARS. DIDN'T WHEN THIS LEGISLATURE THAT YOU AND I ARE

BOTH A PART OF AND A GREAT MANY OF OUR COLLEAGUES WHO ARE CURRENTLY

VOTING ON THIS BILL, APPROVE IT, DIDN'T WE APPROVE IT WITH THE

UNDERSTANDING THAT THE COVERAGE, THE MAXIMUM -- OR THE MANDATORY

COVERAGE LIABILITY THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE CARRIED WOULD BE 1.25

MILLION? WHY AFTER FOUR YEARS WE THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT

COVERAGE MANDATE, WE'RE NOW REDUCING IT SO DRASTICALLY?

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MR. WEPRIN: WELL, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN IN OPERATION,

AS YOU POINTED OUT, FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS AND IT'S BEEN A SUCCESS AND IT'S

BEEN A SUCCESS IN 49 OTHER STATES AND WE DON'T WANT NEW YORK

CONSUMERS TO NOT HAVE THIS OPTION AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEER-TO-PEER

DRIVERS THAT ARE EARNING ADDITIONAL INCOME FOR NEW YORKERS, ESPECIALLY

IN A TOUGH ECONOMY. SO, WE -- WE BELIEVE IT -- IT'S WORKING AND WE

WOULD STILL HAVE THE HIGHEST MINIMUM OF ANY OTHER STATE.

MR. JENSEN: AND I THINK, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW,

CERTAINLY I THINK IN A -- IN A BIPARTISAN WAY, WE ALL WANT TO SEE

COMPANIES SUCCEEDING AND THE -- THE LOAN COMPANY THAT IS LICENSED TO

OPERATE IN NEW YORK HAS OVER A BILLION DOLLARS IN INCREASED REVENUE.

WOULDN'T WE WANT THEM INSURING THAT IF NEGLIGENT OPERATION OF THEIR

SERVICE LEADS TO A TRAUMATIC INJURY, A PERSONAL INJURY, THAT THE

PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAM HAVE THE NECESSARY COVERAGE LIABILITY

AMOUNT TO ENSURE THAT IF A NEW YORKER, EITHER A PERMANENT RESIDENT OR

A VISITOR TO OUR STATE, IS -- IS HARMED THROUGH THIS PROGRAM, THAT THEY

HAVE -- THEY CAN BE ENSURED THAT THEY'RE TAKEN CARE OF? WHY ARE WE --

WHY ARE WE LOOKING TO REDUCE IT FOR A COMPANY THAT'S INCREASED OVER A

BILLION DOLLARS IN REVENUE SINCE COMING TO THE STATE?

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, THERE'S ALSO BEEN A LOT OF

REVENUE TO NEW YORK STATE, A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT DURING THAT PERIOD.

BUT IT'S STILL REGULATED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES CAN DO A STUDY, BUT RIGHT NOW, WE

WOULD BE -- WE ARE THE 50TH STATE AND AS I POINTED OUT, WE STILL EVEN

WITH THIS CHANGE, WILL HAVE THE HIGHEST MINIMUM. WE WOULD --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTUALLY, WE'D BE TIED WITH OREGON.

(CROSS-TALK)

MR. JENSEN: SEE, SO NOW YOU -- NOW YOU'VE BEEN

TELLING ME FIBS THIS ENTIRE TIME. YOU DIDN'T SAY WE'D BE TIED WITH

OREGON. CLASSICAL, OREGON.

MR. WEPRIN: YEAH, WE'RE TIED WITH OREGON.

MR. JENSEN: ALL RIGHT. AND -- AND FOR -- FOR THE

RECORD, MR. WEPRIN, YOU MAY SAY THAT NEW YORK IS THE 50TH STATE, IT'S

NUMBER ONE IN MY HEART. SO, I -- I APPRECIATE THAT -- THAT NOTE.

YOU MENTIONED THAT DFS COULD DO A STUDY.

MR. WEPRIN: YES.

MR. JENSEN: ONE, WHY HAVEN'T THEY DONE A STUDY?

AND TWO, WHAT DOES DFS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION?

(CONFERENCING)

MR. WEPRIN: YEAH. DFS DOES NOT OBJECT TO IT, WE

ACTUALLY WORKED WITH DFS TO ALLOW FOR THE SUPPLEMENTARY --

SUPPLEMENTAL INSURANCE, SLI. SO DFS HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS

PROCESS AND THEY -- THEY'RE NOT OPPOSED TO LEGISLATION.

MR. JENSEN: OKAY. MR. WEPRIN, WOULD YOU

CLASSIFY TURO OR A PEER-TO-PEER CAR-SHARING SERVICE -- WOULD YOU

CLASSIFY THAT AS A RIDE-SHARING COMPANY?

(CONFERENCING)

MR. WEPRIN: NO, IT'S NOT CONSIDERED A RIDE SHARING

COMPANY, IT'S PROBABLY MORE AKIN TO A CAR RENTAL.

MR. JENSEN: OH, I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO GET YOU,

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THAT WAS GOOD -- THAT WAS GOOD WORK. I -- I WOULD SAY IT IS -- IT'S

SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE GROUND, WHICH I GUESS BASED ON THE 100- --

OR $75,000 NEW MINIMUM, WOULD PUT THEM RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A

TRADITIONAL CAR RENTAL SERVICE AND WITH THE RIDE-HAILING SERVICES, LIKE

LIFT OR UBER, #NOFREEADS. BUT, WOULDN'T THIS BECAUSE YOU'RE UTILIZING

SOMEBODY ELSE'S PERSONAL PROPERTY RATHER THAN CORPORATE PROPERTY,

WOULDN'T THAT MAKE THIS MUCH MORE SIMILAR TO RIDE-SHARING APPS THAN

THE TRADITIONAL RENTAL MODEL?

(CONFERENCING)

MR. WEPRIN: I WOULD SAY NOT AND WITH THE RIDE-

SHARE, THE LIABILITY IS GREATER BECAUSE OF PASSENGERS.

MR. JENSEN: WELL, IF I'M RENTING A CAR THROUGH THIS

MECHANISM, COULDN'T I POSSIBLY HAVE PASSENGERS, ALSO?

MR. WEPRIN: YOU COULD, BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S

NOT GENERALLY, YOU KNOW, THE SITUATION.

MR. JENSEN: BECAUSE I WOULD IMAGINE SOMEBODY

WOULD UTILIZE THIS MECHANISM IF SOMEBODY LIVES IN A MASSIVE URBAN

CENTER, MAY UTILIZE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION FOR ALL THEIR "GET ABOUT

TOWNS", BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, MAY WANT TO VISIT OUR BEAUTIFUL CATSKILLS,

OR THE FINGER LAKES WINE TRAIL, THEY WOULD HAVE TO RENT A VEHICLE AND

THEY MAY RENT THROUGH THIS SERVICE AND THEY MAY NOT BE GOING BY

THEMSELVES. THEY'D BE GOING WITH MAYBE THEIR FAMILY, MAYBE THEIR

FRIENDS, MAYBE IT'S A BACHELOR PARTY, WE DON'T KNOW. WOULDN'T THEN

THERE BE INCREASED LIABILITY THAT WOULD NECESSITATE A HIGHER COVERAGE

LIMIT THAN SOMETHING ON PAR WITH THE TRADITIONAL RENTAL CAR AND MORE

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LIKE A -- A RIDE-SHARING APP?

(CONFERENCING)

MR. WEPRIN: ACTUALLY, A CAR RENTAL IS A -- IS LESS

MINIMUM INSURANCE REQUIRED.

MR. JENSEN: NO, A CAR SHARING APP IS MORE. IT'S

150,000.

MR. WEPRIN: NO, I'M SAYING A TRADITIONAL RENTAL

TRUCK.

MR. JENSEN: YES. OKAY.

MR. WEPRIN: BUT YOU WERE COMPARING IT TO A

TRADITIONAL RENTAL --

MR. JENSEN: YEAH, AND I'M -- I'M SAYING THERE'D BE

A HIGHER -- THEY SHOULD HAVE A HIGHER BURDEN BECAUSE THEY'RE UTILIZING

IT AS A PERSONAL VEHICLE FOR A PERSONAL MECHANISM RATHER THAN JUST A

TRADITIONAL MAYBE ONE OR TWO DAY JAUNT THAT A RENTAL COMPANY WOULD

TRADITIONALLY LOOK FOR.

WHAT DISTINGUISHES THE TURO BUSINESS MODEL THAT

WOULD JUSTIFY AN EXEMPTION FROM THE TRADITIONAL CONSUMER PROTECTIONS

THAT EXIST?

MR. WEPRIN: IT'S THE -- IT'S THE PEER-TO-PEER

OPERATION WHICH OPERATES IN 49 STATES AND YOU KNOW, TURO, AT THIS

POINT, IS THE ONLY COMPANY DOING THAT, AS I MENTIONED, BECAUSE OF THE

OTHER COMPANY THAT WAS HERE THAT LEFT THE BUSINESS SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE

OF THAT 1.25 MILLION GET-AROUND.

MR. JENSEN: ALL RIGHT. SO, IN THE HYPOTHETICAL I

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LEAD OFF THIS DEBATE WITH WHERE A PEDESTRIAN IS STRUCK, SUFFERS TRAUMATIC

PERSONAL INJURY, THE $75,000 COVERAGE LIABILITY WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH TO

-- TO COVER THE COST OF CARE. WHERE WOULD THE BURDEN FALL ON

UNDERWRITING THE REST OF THAT INDIVIDUAL'S HEALTHCARE NEEDS? WOULD IT

BE MEDICAID?

(CONFERENCING)

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, THAT'S WHY WE'RE OFFERING THE

SUPPLEMENTAL LIABILITY INSURANCE.

MR. JENSEN: BUT IT'S NOT -- BUT IT'S NOT A MANDATORY

PURCHASE, IT'S SUPPLEMENTAL. SO, EITHER --

MR. WEPRIN: BUT IT WOULD UP -- BE UP TO THE

INDIVIDUAL PERSON WHO'S -- WHO'S IN THE BUSINESS TO DECIDE THAT. IF THEY

WANT A SUPPLEMENTAL INSURANCE, THEY CAN GET IT. OTHERWISE, NOT.

MR. JENSEN: SO, MY BELIEF THEN IF THROUGH A

NEGLIGENT OPERATION OF ONE OF THESE VEHICLES, SOMEBODY SUFFERS A -- A

TRAUMATIC INJURY, A PERSONAL INJURY, EITHER IT'S GOING TO BE MEDICAID'S

RESPONSIBILITY TO COME UP WITH THE CARE TO COVERAGE FOR IT. IT'S GOING TO

BE THEIR PRIVATE INSURANCE, WHICH WOULD ALSO INCREASE COSTS ON

EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE PRIVATE INSURANCE MARKETPLACE, OR IT WOULD BE

OUT OF THE POCKET. WOULD IT BE OUT OF THE POCKET OF THE OPERATOR OF THE

VEHICLE, OR WOULD IT THE OWNER OF THE VEHICLE, OR WOULD IT BE TURO

ITSELF? WHO -- WHO AM I SUING?

MR. WEPRIN: IT WOULD BE TURO ITSELF.

MR. JENSEN: TURO ITSELF. SO, I WOULDN'T SUE THE

OPERATOR OF THE VEHICLE, I WOULDN'T SUE THE OWNER OF THE VEHICLE WHO

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PARTICIPATED IN THE PROGRAM, IT WOULD BE TURO ITSELF?

MR. WEPRIN: RIGHT, BUT MANY LAWYERS SUE

EVERYBODY.

MR. JENSEN: WELL, I'M NOT A LAWYER. I THINK WE

HAVE A FEW OF THEM HERE. I, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY HAVE THOUGHTS ON

THAT.

CERTAINLY, IS THERE A PORTION OF THE BUSINESS MODEL OF

THIS COMPANY THAT REDUCES THE COVERAGE THAT THEY PROVIDE FOR

PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAM BASED ON THE VEHICLE THEY ACTUALLY HAVE?

SO, A LATE MODEL, TWO-DOOR SEDAN MAY REQUIRE LESS COVERAGE THAN A

WAGONEER, WHICH IS A LUXURY SUV. DOESN'T THE BUSINESS MODEL MAKE

A DIFFERENTIATION ON THE TYPE OF VEHICLE WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT KIND OF

COVERAGE THEY HAVE TO PAY AND IF WHETHER OR NOT SUPPLEMENTAL

INSURANCE WOULD BE REQUIRED OR WOULD REMAIN OPTIONAL?

MR. WEPRIN: IT -- IT DOES NOT. IT WOULD BE THE

SAME.

MR. JENSEN: IT DOESN'T HAVE -- IT DOESN'T HAVE A

PREMIUM PROTECTION MODEL AS PART OF ITS BUSINESS MODEL?

MR. WEPRIN: NO.

MR. JENSEN: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

WEPRIN. I APPRECIATE THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: ON THE BILL.

MR. JENSEN: CERTAINLY I -- I APPRECIATE CHAIRMAN

WEPRIN ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS AND -- AND THIS IS CERTAINLY A SERVICE

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THAT -- THAT I HAVE NOT HAD THE PRIVILEGE TO UTILIZE AND CERTAINLY IS

SOMETHING THAT IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT EXISTS IN THE CURRENT MODEL.

CERTAINLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE USE OF CARS FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S USE,

YOU KNOW, THE -- THE -- THE BIG THREE ARE TRADITIONAL RENTAL CAR SERVICES.

UNDER THE STATE'S LAW THEY HAVE A $50,000 COVERAGE AMOUNT PER

ACCIDENT. RIDE-HAILING OR RIDE-SHARING COMPANIES, THEY DO HAVE

$150,000 PER ACCIDENT COVERAGE AMOUNT AND THEN DELIVERY SERVICES

THAT UTILIZE CARS OR OTHER FORMS OF TRANSIT ALSO HAVE A $150,000 PER

ACCIDENT COVERAGE AMOUNT. WHILE THE LEGISLATURE IN 2021 APPROVING

THIS TYPE OF SERVICE IN THE STATE SAW FIT TO MANDATE A $1.25 MILLION

COVERAGE AMOUNT, WE'VE SEEN UNFORTUNATELY THAT SOMETIMES THE

OPERATORS AND THE UTILIZERS OF THIS TYPE OF SERVICE DO NOT ALWAYS HAVE

THE BEST INTENTIONS. THEY MAY NOT BE USING IT TO GET FROM POINT A, OR --

OR POINT B, BUT THEY MAY BE UTILIZING IT FOR MEANS THAT ARE NOT

NECESSARILY THE -- THE SAFEST FOR OTHER PEOPLE UTILIZING THE ROAD, WHETHER

IN THEIR OWN VEHICLES OR ON PEDESTRIANS. CERTAINLY MOVING FORWARD

WITH THIS LEGISLATION, BEFORE THE -- THE DIVISION OF FINANCIAL SERVICES

HAVE DONE A TRUE STUDY INTO THE UTILIZATION OF THESE TYPES OF SERVICES IN

NEW YORK, THE ACCIDENT DATA AS IT RELATES TO YOUR OPERATION, THE STUDY

OF ANY AND ALL CRIMINAL ACTS BE UTILIZED WHILE THIS SERVICE IS BEING USED

BEFORE -- WITHOUT HAVING THAT HAPPEN BEFORE WE REDUCE THE COVERAGE

AMOUNT MANDATE, I THINK IS CONCERNING. ONLY FOUR YEARS AGO WE SAW

FIT TO -- TO MANDATE A HIGHER AMOUNT. AND YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY I'M NOT

THE -- THE PART OF THE STATE THAT'S UTILIZING THIS, BUT CERTAINLY HEARING

FROM -- FROM PEOPLE WHO DO LIVE IN THAT PART OF THE STATE WHO -- WHO

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UTILIZE IT QUITE OFTEN, THERE ARE CONCERNS AND I THINK THOSE CONCERNS

SHOW THAT WE NEED MORE STUDY [SIC] BEFORE WE PROCEED.

THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. WEPRIN: YES.

MR. RA: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. RA: SO, CAN YOU JUST -- BECAUSE YOU SAID THE --

THE COMPARABLE THING EVEN THOUGH THE AMOUNTS UNDER THIS WOULD DIFFER

A LITTLE BIT, BUT THE COMPARABLE SITUATION WOULD BE A TRADITIONAL RENTAL

CAR. BUT -- SO, HOW DOES THIS BUSINESS MODEL WORK IN TERMS OF SOME OF

THOSE THINGS THAT WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH WITH A RENTAL CAR? FIRST OF ALL, AGE

RESTRICTIONS. DO THEY HAVE THE SAME AGE RESTRICTIONS WITH THESE TYPE OF

RIDE-SHARING -- RIDE -- WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? A PEER-TO-PEER --

MR. WEPRIN: PEER-TO-PEER.

MR. RA: -- SITUATION? DO THEY -- DO THEY ALSO

REQUIRE MANY -- MANY INSURANCE -- OR RENTAL CAR COMPANIES REQUIRE THE

PERSON BE AT LEAST 21 AND -- AND MANY TIMES THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL

CHARGE IF THEY'RE UNDER 25 YEARS OLD. AT WHAT AGE CAN YOU UTILIZE ONE

OF THESE PEER-TO-PEER NETWORKS TO -- TO RENT A VEHICLE?

MR. WEPRIN: YEAH, THE -- IT WOULD BE 18 YEAR --

YEARS OLD, BUT IT WOULDN'T BE A HIGHER RESTRICTION.

MR. RA: OKAY. SO, I MEAN, THAT TO ME IS ONE

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CONCERN BECAUSE I THINK AS WE ALL KNOW THE YOUNG -- THERE'S A REASON

FOR THIS AND THAT'S THAT YOUNGER DRIVERS TEND TO BE LESS EXPERIENCED

DRIVERS AND THERE'S A GREATER DANGER. THE OTHER THING IS, HOW DOES A --

HOW DOES -- HOW DO THESE PEER-TO-PEER COMPANIES DEAL WITH REALLY JUST

ASSESSING A VEHICLE THAT'S BEING USED IN TERMS OF; THAT IT'S SAFE, THAT IT'S

TIRES HAVE GOOD TREAD ON IT, THAT IT'S BRAKES ARE, YOU KNOW, FUNCTIONAL.

THEY ARE -- DO THEY -- THEY INSPECT, OR IS THE PERSON WHO WANTS TO LIST

THEIR VEHICLE TO BE ABLE TO BE SHARED THROUGH ONE OF THESE COMPANIES

REQUIRED TO DO ANYTHING TO PROVE THAT THE CAR IS IN GOOD, SAFE WORKING

CONDITION?

(CONFERENCING)

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, YOU STILL HAVE TO PASS NEW

YORK STATE INSPECTION LAWS AND, YOU KNOW, CAR RENTALS AS WELL DON'T

DIFFERENTIATE OFTEN BETWEEN VARIOUS MODELS.

MR. RA: OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THEN, JUST WITH

REGARD TO THIS -- THIS CHANGE MONETARILY, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE

SAYING IN TERMS OF IT BEING A HIGHER MINIMUM THAN OTHER STATES HAVE

BUT, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THAT IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO THAT WE PUT THIS

HIGHER AMOUNT. I MEAN, WHY SUCH A DRASTIC REDUCTION FROM 1.25

MILLION ALL THE WAY DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, AT MOST, 150,000? THAT -- THAT

SEEMS LIKE A VERY BIG JUMP, AND AS MY COLLEAGUE SAID, THAT IS A VERY

SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY IF SOMEBODY WERE TO HAVE A SERIOUS INJURY AS A

RESULT OF A -- A CRASH IN ONE OF THESE VEHICLES.

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, THE PROBLEM IS THE -- THE SAME

IT IS -- AS IT IS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY IN ALL 50 STATES. NONE OF THE 50

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STATES BESIDES NEW YORK CURRENTLY HAVE THAT $1.25 MILLION MINIMUM

REQUIREMENT IN ADDITION TO ANYTHING ELSE AND IT'S NOT WORKING BY THE

FACT THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE COMPANY LEFT AND OTHER COMPANIES HAVE NOT

COME INTO THE MARKET. AND AS I MENTIONED, THE -- THE ONLY OTHER

COMPANY THAT WAS ACTIVE IN THIS FIVE-YEAR PERIOD WAS GETAROUND,

WHICH LEFT THE MARKET SPECIFICALLY CITING THAT ADDITIONAL 1.25 MILLION.

MR. RA: ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT COMPANIES IF IT

GETS TOO EXPENSIVE TO OPERATE IN NEW YORK LEAVE? THAT'S A RHETORICAL

QUESTION.

MR. SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

MR. WEPRIN: I THINK YOU'VE -- I THINK YOU'VE -- I

THINK YOU'VE RAISED IT A FEW TIMES IN THE PAST.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: ON THE BILL.

MR. RA: SO, MY CONCERN HERE IS THAT IS A BIG JUMP

AND THE SUPPLEMENTAL SIDE OF IT, I THINK WHEN YOU PUT THE -- THESE TWO

TOGETHER, IT PROVIDES SOME LEVEL OF SECURITY THAT IF THERE IS A -- A REALLY

BAD ACCIDENT, THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME COVERAGE, SOME ABILITY FOR

JUSTICE FOR AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS BEEN SERIOUSLY INJURED. THIS

MINIMUM AMOUNT IS -- IS NOT GOING TO DO MUCH WHEN YOU HAVE A -- A

REALLY SERIOUS INJURY. SO, I -- I JUST WANT TO REITERATE, WHILE CERTAINLY I

APPRECIATE THE IDEA OF TRYING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR BUSINESSES TO

OPERATE, AS THE SPONSOR SAID, I TALK ABOUT THAT OFTEN ON THIS FLOOR AND IT'S

SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT IN SO MANY DIFFERENT AREAS, BUT I DON'T

KNOW THAT AN AREA WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAKING SURE THERE'S

ADEQUATE COVERAGE WHEN A UNVETTED, PROBABLY, DRIVER IS GOING TO BE

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DRIVING A VEHICLE THAT THE COMPANY HASN'T LOOKED AT, DOESN'T KNOW IF

THE BRAKES ARE GOOD, DOESN'T KNOW IF THE TIRES HAVE GOOD TREAD ON THEM,

DOESN'T KNOW IF THE HEADLIGHTS ARE WORKING, DOESN'T KNOW IF THE SEAT

BELTS ARE WORKING. ALL OF THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, THERE IS THE POTENTIAL

FOR A SERIOUS ACCIDENT AND INSURANCE IS BASED UPON RISK AND I THINK,

CLEARLY, THERE'S A GREATER RISK WITH REGARD TO A SITUATION WHERE

SOMEBODY IS DRIVING ONE OF THESE VEHICLES.

SO, THAT'S MY CONCERN WITH THIS. I -- I THINK WE COULD

TRY TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE WITHOUT HAVING SUCH A DRASTIC REDUCTION IN THE

AMOUNT OF REQUIRED INSURANCE COVERAGE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: MR. DURSO.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. WOULD THE

SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

MR. WEPRIN: YES, I WILL.

ACTING SPEAKER JONES: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. WEPRIN. SO AND --

AND THIS MAY HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED, BUT I'M JUST A LITTLE CONFUSED

ON THIS. SO, THE ORIGINAL -- OR PRIOR TO THIS BILL, IT WAS 1.25 MILLION FOR

THEIR INSURANCE TO BE PLACED ON A PEER--TO--PEER PROGRAM?

MR. WEPRIN: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DURSO: WHY WAS IT AT 1.25 MILLION TO BEGIN

WITH?

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, IF -- IF YOU ASK TURO, IT WAS AN

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UNREASONABLE AMOUNT FOR A COMPANY TRYING TO GET INTO THE MARKET AND

IT -- THE -- OUR EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT THAT'S PREVENTED THE MARKET

FROM EXPANDING. AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, TURO'S OTHER MAJOR

COMPETITOR HAS ACTUALLY LEFT THE MARKET SPECIFICALLY CITING THAT -- THAT

AMOUNT.

MR. DURSO: SO, WHO MADE THE DECISION OR WHO

MAKES UP THE FACT THAT THERE NEEDED TO BE $1.25 MILLION?

MR. WEPRIN: THAT WAS ACTUALLY BEFORE I WAS

INSURANCE CHAIR, BUT I GUESS IT WAS (CONFERENCING) -- I'M TOLD IT WAS

PART OF AN OVERALL NEGOTIATION AND I'M SURE DFS WAS INVOLVED. BUT, AS

I SAID BEFORE, DFS DOES NOT OBJECT TO THIS LEGISLATION AND WE'VE HAD

THAT DISCUSSION WITH THEM.

MR. DURSO: UNDERSTOOD, BUT, AGAIN AND -- AND NOT

BEING AN INSURANCE PERSON, BUT WHO WOULD SIT THERE AND -- AND BE IN

THAT DISCUSSION OTHER THAN DFS TO DECIDE ON THAT $1.25 MILLION AMOUNT

OF COVERAGE?

MR. WEPRIN: IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, I -- I DON'T

KNOW, BUT THERE'S --

MR. DURSO: WELL, DID WE -- DID WE LEGISLATE IT

HERE?

MR. WEPRIN: YEAH, IT WAS PART OF -- PART OF THE

LEGISLATION IN NEW YORK STATE IN THE LEGISLATURE.

MR. DURSO: SO -- SO, THEY NEGOTIATED IT AND NOW

WE NEED TO CHANGE IT AND THEY AGREE WITH THE CHANGE?

MR. WEPRIN: CORRECT.

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MR. DURSO: THAT -- WELL, THAT'S MY QUESTION. I'M

TRYING TO UNDERSTAND AND I'M NOT TRYING TO BE DIFFICULT. WHY NOW? IS IT

BECAUSE ANOTHER COMPANY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS, MOVED OUT OF STATE,

COULDN'T AFFORD THE PREMIUMS?

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, ALSO WE -- WE HAVE NOT HAD

ADDITIONAL COMPANIES ENTERING THE MARKET.

MR. DURSO: HOW IS THIS COMPANY THAT'S STILL IN

BUSINESS DOING FINANCIALLY?

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, THEY -- THEY'VE THREATENED TO

LEAVE THE MARKET IF IT -- IF WE MAINTAINED IT, BUT HOW DO THEY DO IT? I

DON'T KNOW, BUT --

MR. DURSO: NO, I'M SAYING ARE THEY DOING

FINANCIALLY WELL? THEY'RE STILL IN BUSINESS?

MR. WEPRIN: THEY'RE STILL IN BUSINESS.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY I'M --

I'M --

MR. WEPRIN: I'M TOLD THAT THEY'RE LOSING MONEY IN

NEW YORK. THEY'RE -- THEY OPERATE IN ALL 50 STATES --

MR. DURSO: OKAY.

MR. WEPRIN: -- SO THEY'RE MUCH MORE PROFITABLE IN

OTHER STATES OTHER THAN NEW YORK, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE THIS

ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENT.

MR. DURSO: UNDERSTOOD. SO, WHAT IS THE -- WHAT IS

THE MINIMUM FOR ME, AS A DRIVER, TO HAVE ON MY CAR INSURANCE?

MR. WEPRIN: IF THIS LEGISLATION PASSES, IT WOULD BE

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75,000.

MR. DURSO: NO, NO, NO. I'M SAYING ME AS A PERSON

-- MY PERSONAL CAR. WHAT -- WHAT IS THE MINIMUM IN NEW YORK STATE

TO HAVE ON YOUR CAR AS --

MR. WEPRIN: 25,000.

MR. DURSO: 25,000. AND THAT WOULD BE --

MR. WEPRIN: A THIRD -- A THIRD OF WHAT WE'RE

ASKING ON THIS.

MR. DURSO: A THIRD --

MR. WEPRIN: THE MINIMUM FOR --

MR. DURSO: WHAT'S THE MINIMUM GOING TO BE ON

THIS FOR THIS RIDE-SHARE? THANK YOU.

MR. WEPRIN: IT WOULD BE 75,000.

MR. DURSO: SO, BUT THE MINIMUM FOR A PERSONAL

DRIVER WOULD BE 25,000?

MR. WEPRIN: CORRECT.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. BUT NOW THIS IS STILL A BUSINESS.

SO, THIS IS -- AND YOU'RE SAYING THIS IS MAKING IT EVEN WITH CAR RENTALS,

CORRECT?

(CONFERENCING)

MR. WEPRIN: IT'S -- IT'S MORE THAN THE CAR RENTALS

I'M TOLD.

MR. DURSO: IT'S STILL MORE THAN --

MR. WEPRIN: STILL MORE THAN THE CAR RENTALS, YES.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO --

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MR. WEPRIN: THREE TIMES MORE, BECAUSE THE CAR

RENTAL DOESN'T COMPLY WITH THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT IN NEW YORK

STATE.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO -- SO, A CAR RENTAL ONLY HAS

TO REQUIRE WITH THE -- GO WITH THE MINIMUM IN NEW YORK STATE? THIS

IS SAYING THAT EVEN AFTER THIS LEGISLATION, THE PEER-TO-PEER PROGRAM, CAR

RENTALS WOULD STILL BE MORE THAN A TRADITIONAL CAR RENTAL?

MR. WEPRIN: YES, THREE TIMES MORE, TIED WITH

OREGON, MORE THAN -- THAN THE OTHER 48 STATES.

MR. DURSO: SO NOW IF I GO RENT A CAR MYSELF FROM

A -- A TRADITIONAL CAR RENTAL COMPANY, DOES MY PERSONAL CAR INSURANCE,

IF I HAVE PERSONAL CAR INSURANCE IF I OWN A CAR, BUT I'M RENTING A CAR,

DOES MY CAR INSURANCE COVERAGE COVER IF THERE'S ANY ACCIDENTS WHILE

I'M DRIVING THAT CAR?

MR. WEPRIN: YEAH, FOR PERSONAL AUTO THE ANSWER IS

YES.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. AND WOULD IT BE THE SAME ON

THE PEER-TO-PEER RENTALS?

MR. WEPRIN: NOT NECESSARILY.

MR. DURSO: NOT -- SO, WHAT -- CAN YOU EXPLAIN

THAT? SO, IF I GO RENT A CAR AND I HAVE CAR INSURANCE FOR MY PERSONAL

VEHICLE, DOES MY CAR INSURANCE THAT I PAID FOR ON MY JEEP THEN COVER

ME IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM ON A CAR RENTAL IF IT'S FROM A TRADITIONAL

CAR RENTAL COMPANY?

MR. WEPRIN: I -- I BELIEVE IT WOULD.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. DURSO: OKAY. IT DOES. SO, WOULD IT -- WOULD

MY PERSONAL CAR INSURANCE COVER ME ON A PEER-TO-PEER CAR RENTAL? IF

YOU WANT TO CALL IT A CAR RENTAL.

MR. WEPRIN: I BELIEVE IT PROBABLY WOULD, BUT I

MEAN IT WOULD BE UP TO, I GUESS, THE INDIVIDUAL INSURANCE COMPANY.

MR. DURSO: THE INDIVIDUAL INSURANCE COMPANY

THAT I HAVE MY PERSONAL CAR INSURANCE WITH, OR THAT THE WHETHER IT'S

RENTAL COMPANY, OR PEER-TO-PEER CAR PROGRAM, HAS THEIR INSURANCE WITH?

MR. WEPRIN: IT PROBABLY SHOULD BE THE SAME, YOU

KNOW, AS IF YOU'RE HAVE -- YOU'RE HAVING YOUR CAR AND -- AND YOU'RE

ASKING FOR YOUR INSURANCE, YOU KNOW, TO COVER IT.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. SO, AS MY COLLEAGUE WAS

GETTING AT ALSO, WITH A TRADITIONAL CAR COMPANY YOU CAN RENT IT ON LINE,

YOU CAN DO WHATEVER. BUT, THEN YOU GENERALLY, PROBABLY 90 PERCENT OF

THE TIME, YOU'RE ENDING UP, WHETHER IT'S AT THE AIRPORT OR SOMEWHERE

ELSE, GOING TO PICK UP THAT CAR AT A BRICK-AND-MORTAR TYPE FACILITY,

CORRECT? WHERE THEY CHECK YOUR LICENSE, THEY CAN CHECK YOUR

INSURANCE, YOU CAN ADD INSURANCE. HOW DOES THAT WORK WITH THE

PEER-TO-PEER PROGRAM? BECAUSE FROM THE WAY I'M LOOKING AT IT AND

AGAIN, THIS IS ALL NEW TO ME, IT'S STRICTLY ONLINE.

MR. WEPRIN: IT'S -- IT'S DONE THROUGH AN APP, YES.

MR. DURSO: SO, HOW DOES THE APP CHECK YOUR

LICENSE, YOUR INSURANCE, YOUR AGE, ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

(CONFERENCING)

MR. WEPRIN: IT'S A NEW WORLD SINCE -- SINCE I, YOU

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

KNOW, STARTED HERE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE WAYS THAT APPS DO THAT AND,

YOU KNOW, IT'S BUILT IN -- INTO THE APP, YOU KNOW, TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS

AND MAKE TO THAT IDENTITY DETERMINATION.

MR. DURSO: MY -- MY CONCERN WITH IT, AGAIN, IS

THAT WE'RE LOWERING THE AMOUNT OF INSURANCE AND COVERAGE THAT A

PEER-TO-PEER PROGRAM -- PEER-TO-PEER CAR RENTAL HAS WHEN IT'S STRICTLY ON

LINE AND THERE'S NOT THAT, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, BRICK-AND-MORTAR

STORE WHERE YOU GO IN AND GET YOUR LICENSE CHECKED, SEE YOUR AGE AS

MY COLLEAGUE SAID, SEE IF YOU HAVE OTHER INSURANCE. SO, THERE IS THE

POSSIBILITY FOR SOME KIND OF FRAUD, RIGHT, TO WHERE PEOPLE ARE RENTING

VEHICLES THAT DON'T EITHER HAVE PROPER INSURANCE, AN UP-TO-DATE LICENSE,

A NON-SUSPENDED LICENSE, ANYTHING LIKE THAT, TO WHERE THE LIABILITY FOR

THAT PEER-TO-PEER AND/OR THAT DRIVER COULD BE MUCH HIGHER. SO, DON'T

YOU THINK IN THAT CASE, WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF FRAUD AND NOT BEING ABLE

TO CHECK THAT AND NOT SEEING IF THAT PERSON HAS ACCIDENTS OR A

SUSPENDED LICENSE, THAT HAVING THE HIGHER INSURANCE PREMIUM FOR THOSE

VEHICLES WOULD BE THE SMARTER IDEA TO PROTECT EVERYBODY ELSE THAT'S OUT

ON THE STREET?

MR. WEPRIN: I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE THERE ARE 49

OTHER STATES, 48 IF YOU TAKE OUT OREGON AND IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING. IT'S

A RELATIVELY NEW CONCEPT IN THE COUNTRY AND IT'S CERTAINLY EVEN NEWER IN

NEW YORK STATE, ONLY SINCE 2020 -- SINCE 2021. SO, IT SEEMS TO BE

WORKING ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THIS IS ANOTHER OPTION FOR NEW YORK

DRIVERS. WE DON'T WANT TO PUT THEM AT A COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE TO

OTHER STATES. I'VE HEARD THAT MANY TIMES FROM YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. DURSO: BUT WHO ARE WE PUTTING AT A

COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE, OTHER COMPANIES FROM COMING IN?

MR. WEPRIN: OTHER COMPANIES FROM COMING IN OR

INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE THAT WANT TO ACCESS THIS PEER-TO-PEER COMPANY.

MR. DURSO: WHERE ARE THESE PEER-TO-PEER

COMPANIES OR THIS PARTICULAR COMPANY OPERATE OUT OF?

MR. WEPRIN: TURO?

MR. DURSO: YES. AND -- AND IT'S NOT EVEN -- WHERE

IS THEIR BIGGEST AREA THAT WE KNOW OF THAT THEY OPERATE FROM? WHERE IS

THEIR BIGGEST RENTAL AREA, PEER-TO-PEER PROGRAM AREA WHERE THEY WOULD

BE USED?

MR. WEPRIN: I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, BUT I KNOW

THEY'RE VERY ACTIVE IN NEW YORK STATE. AND THEY --

MR. DURSO: I HOPE SO, THIS IS FOR -- THIS IS FOR NEW

YORK STATE. I HOPE THEY'RE ACTIVE HERE. BUT I'M SAYING DO YOU THINK IT'S

IN THE CITY, DO YOU THINK IT'S IN THE SUBURBS, DO YOU THINK IT'S UPSTATE

NEW YORK, MORE RURAL AREAS? WHAT -- WHAT DO WE THINK BECAUSE,

AGAIN, MY CONCERN IS IF A PEER-TOP-PEER CAR RENTAL WHERE WE'RE

LOWERING THE PREMIUM AND THE AMOUNT OF INSURANCE THAT YOU HAVE TO

HAVE TO PROTECT NOT ONLY THAT DRIVER, BUT OTHER DRIVERS AND PEDESTRIANS

OUT ON THE ROAD IN BUSIER AREAS WHERE THEY CAN'T REALLY CHECK IF

SOMEONE HAS A PROPER LICENSE, IS THE PROPER AGE, HAS PROPER INSURANCE,

OR WHAT THEIR DRIVING HISTORY IS. DON'T YOU THINK WE SHOULD HAVE

HIGHER INSURANCE ON VEHICLES LIKE THAT TO PROTECT ALL OF US? WE DON'T

KNOW WHO'S DRIVING THESE CARS AND -- AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE RENTING

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THEM DON'T KNOW WHO'S DRIVING THEM EITHER.

MR. WEPRIN: WELL, I'M TOLD THAT THERE'S NOT ANY

MORE OF A RISK FOR THOSE TYPE OF FRAUDULENT ACTIVITIES THAN -- THAN A

RENTAL CAR AND THE EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT IT HAS NOT BEEN A PROBLEM

FOR TURO AND -- AND -- AND THEY HAVE VERY HIGH VERIFICATION PROCEDURES

IN PLACE.

MR. DURSO: I'M SURE TURO IS SAYING IT'S NOT A

PROBLEM BECAUSE THEN WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY MAKE THEIR INSURANCE

PREMIUM HIGHER. BUT AS THE CHAIR ON INSURANCE AND AS AN INSURANCE

PROFESSIONAL, DO YOU THINK THAT IT IS POSSIBLE IN THIS TYPE OF SITUATION,

WITH THIS TYPE OF COMPANY, WHICH IS NOT THAT BRICK-AND-MORTAR STORE

WHERE YOU CAN CHECK THAT LICENSE, CHECK INSURANCE, ANY TYPE OF

BACKGROUND, FILLING OUT PAPERWORK IN FRONT OF SOMEBODY, KNOWING

WHO'S ACTUALLY RENTING THAT CAR AND AGAIN, AS MY COLLEAGUE SAID, WHO

ELSE IS GETTING IN THE CAR? WE DON'T KNOW WHO ELSE IS GOING TO BE

DRIVING IT, YOU CAN BE RENTING A TRUCK WITH SIX PEOPLE IN IT. AGAIN,

HAVING $25,000 INSURANCE OR $50,000 INSURANCE IS NOT NEARLY ENOUGH IF

GOD FORBID THERE'S A CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT. SO, AGAIN, IN BUSIER AREAS

AND NOT KNOWING WHO'S DIVING THE CAR OR IF THAT COMPANY'S TAKING CARE

OF THAT CAR, AS MY COLLEAGUE SAID. THERE'S TREAD ON THE TIRES, BRAKES

CHECKED, INSPECTION DONE, WINDOWS TINTED, ANYTHING -- YOU KNOW,

EXHAUST, ANYTHING ON THAT CAR THAT IS -- WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S

OPERATING, WHO'S CHECKING IT AND WHO'S DOING THE MAINTENANCE ON IT,

RIGHT? IT'S JUST A PEER-TO-PEER PROGRAM. ANYBODY CAN JOIN IT, ANYBODY

CAN BE INVOLVED WITH IT AND ANYBODY CAN RENT THOSE CARS. AGAIN, WE'RE

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PUTTING, UNFORTUNATELY, THE PUBLIC MORE AT RISK. AGAIN, NOT SAYING

WE'RE TRYING TO STOP BUSINESSES FROM COMING IN, WE JUST DON'T KNOW

WHO'S TAKING THE CARS OUT. WE DON'T KNOW WHO'S DRIVING THEM AND IN

WHAT MANNER THEY'RE DRIVING. WOULDN'T IT BE SMARTER TO HAVE THAT

HIGHER INSURANCE ON THAT CAR TO PROTECT ALL OF US FROM A COMPANY THAT

RIGHT NOW HAS A MONOPOLY ON IT AND IS PROBABLY MAKING PRETTY GOOD

MONEY. IF THEY COULD AFFORD IT AND AS YOU SAID WE'VE HEARD MORE AND

MORE AGAIN, THIS IS A CORPORATION, THIS IS A COMPANY. SO, WE'RE GIVING A

COMPANY, A LARGE CORPORATION THAT'S MAKING PROBABLY MILLIONS OF

DOLLARS, A BIGGER -- BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, A BIGGER BREAK, WHEN IT'S

ACTUALLY PUTTING EVERYONE ELSE IN HERE AT RISK IF GOD FORBID THERE'S A

CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT.

(CONFERENCING)

MR. WEPRIN: OKAY. WELL, YOU KNOW, THE ORIGINAL

BILL JUST REMOVED THE 1.25 MILLION. SO, REQUIRING THREE TIMES THE -- AND

WHICH WOULD MEAN IF WE REMOVED IT LEGISLATIVELY, IT WOULD MEAN

THEY'D BE SUBJECT TO THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT AS ANY OTHER DRIVER IN

NEW YORK STATE, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN A THIRD OF WHAT -- WHAT WE'RE

REQUIRING. SO, YOU KNOW, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THAT'S NOT A

PROBLEM AND EVEN THREE TIMES THE MINIMUM IS HIGHER THAN -- THAN ANY

OTHER STATE EXCEPT OREGON. SO, IT HASN'T BEEN A PROBLEM IN THE OTHER 48

STATES. WE DON'T EXPECT IT TO BE A PROBLEM IN NEW YORK STATE.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. WEPRIN. I APPRECIATE

YOU ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. CHANG.

MR. CHANG: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ON THE BILL ITSELF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. CHANG: OKAY. SO, IF, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AN

INSURANCE PERSON AND I'M NOT A -- A LAWYER OF ANY STRETCH IMAGINATION,

BUT I'M LOOKING AT THIS INSURANCE IS AUTO, THE INSURANCE GENERALLY

FOLLOWS THE VEHICLE RATHER THAN THE PERSON ITSELF, GENERALLY IF YOU

BORROW A CAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND IF THERE'S ONLY ONE INSURANCE

COMPANY IN THE MARKET, THEY'RE LITERALLY A MONOPOLY ITSELF. THEY CAN

CHARGE WHATEVER PREMIUM TO (INDISCERNIBLE) BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO

OTHER CHOICE. SO -- OR -- OR ELSE THEY'D BE OUT OF BUSINESS. SO, BY

LOWERING THE -- THE PREMIUMS, ALSO LOWERING PROFIT OPPORTUNITIES

BECAUSE THEN YOU ALLOW OTHER COMPANIES TO COMPETE, BUT YOU'RE

TALKING ABOUT DRASTIC PREMIUM DIFFERENCES. THAT'S LIKE MORE THAN 50

PERCENT FOR A 125- TO 75,000. IT'S A -- THAT'S WHY IT DEFIES THE LOGIC

ITSELF ON -- ON WHY WE'RE DECREASING THE COVERAGE ITSELF, JUST TO

INCREASE MORE INSURANCE INTO INSURANCE POOL?

SO, I UNDERSTAND TRYING TO LOWER THE PREMIUM AND

MAKE THE BUSINESS SURVIVE IS ONE THING, BUT INSURANCE IS DIFFERENT. IT'S

A DIFFERENT PRODUCT. INSURANCE IS PROTECTING THE LIVES AND PERHAPS THE

VEHICLE DAMAGE ITSELF, BUT PROTECTING THE LIVES WHO ARE DRIVING THE --

THE VEHICLE. SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS A LITTLE BIT

DIFFERENTLY. 125 -- 125 MILLION, IT'S -- IT'S -- THERE'S A REASON BEHIND THAT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AND WE'RE THE HIGHEST, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IS, THE PEOPLE WHO GOT HURT

UTILIZING INSURANCE WAS 125- IS ENOUGH TO COVER, IN MOST CASES,

MEDICAL INSURANCE OR CLAIMS, BUT WHEN YOU LOWER IT, YOU MAY NOT BE

ENOUGH TO COVER. SO, THAT'S WHY I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY -- WHY WE ARE

LOWERING IT SO MUCH. IF YOU CUT DOWN HALF, IS ONE THING, BUT THIS IS A

MORE THAN HALF OF THE LIABILITY. AND I WOULD VOTE NO ON THIS -- ON THIS

BILL.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY SPEAKING BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, ALTHOUGH THERE MAY BE OTHERS WHO WISH TO

VOTE YES AND THEY MAY CERTAINLY DO SO AT THEIR SEATS NOW. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE MOSTLY IN FAVOR OF

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WOULD DESIRE TO NOT

BE IN FAVOR AND THEY CAN FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. STECK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. STECK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I -- I

WAS A NO IN THE INSURANCE COMMITTEE ON THIS BECAUSE A CERTAIN ASPECT

WAS UNABLE TO BE EXPLAINED, AND THAT IS THE LIABILITY OF THE OWNER OF THE

VEHICLE. AND SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, WHILE I NEVER GOT MY QUESTION

ANSWERED, I DID MY OWN RESEARCH AND WHAT I FOUND IS THAT THE STATUTE

AS IT EXISTS PROVIDES THAT THE COMPANY, TURO IN THIS CASE, WOULD HAVE TO

DEFEND AND INDEMNIFY THE OWNER OF THE VEHICLE AGAINST ANY LAWSUIT THAT

MIGHT BE BROUGHT AGAINST THE OWNER ARISING OF AN ACCIDENT. SO THERE IS

A PROTECTION FOR THE OWNER. IT WOULD PROBABLY BE BETTER IF THE LAW

REQUIRED THE OWNER TO BE NAMED AS AN ADDITIONAL INSURED ON THE TURO

POLICY, BECAUSE IF THE COMPANY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS THERE WOULD HAVE

BEEN NO ONE THERE TO DEFEND AND INDEMNIFY THE OWNER.

I AM GONNA VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE BILL BECAUSE THERE ARE

SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE, BUT WE MAY HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB AS WE GO DOWN

THE ROAD TO PROTECT PEOPLE IN THIS SITUATION. AS THE CHAIR INDICATED, IT

IS A NEW FIELD AND EXPERIENCE WILL TELL WHAT'S NEEDED.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. STECK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BLUMENCRANZ: THANK YOU, MADAM

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SPEAKER. I RISE TODAY IN SUPPORT OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. IT'S NOT

OFTEN THAT WE SEE A RECTIFYING OF A POLICY PUT IN PLACE THAT CONTINUES TO

HURT BOTH BUSINESSES THAT HOPE TO OPERATE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK,

BUT ALSO SEE AN ONGOING NEGOTIATION LEADING TO A PIECE OF LEGISLATION

THAT ALLOWS FOR ALTERNATIVE FORMS OF TRANSPORTATION THAT HELP SMALL

BUSINESSES, THAT HELP COMMUNITIES THAT DON'T HAVE THE SAME TRANSIT

OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE, AND TO HELP BUSINESSES SURVIVE IN AN

INCREASINGLY DIFFICULT INSURANCE ENVIRONMENT HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.

SO I'LL BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS LEGISLATION AND I THANK THE

SPONSOR FOR INTRODUCING IT AND GETTING IT PASSED. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BLUMENCRANZ IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. JENSEN TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE. AND CERTAINLY I WANT TO COMMEND MY NOT PREVIOUS,

BUT BEFORE THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER ON HIS EXPLANATION BECAUSE THAT WAS A

VERY GOOD POINT AND IT MAKES ME EVEN MORE INSISTENT ON VOTING NO.

BUT I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONCERNS ME THE

MOST IS THAT BOTH THE COMPANY THAT THE SPONSOR AND I DISCUSSED AND THE

ONE THAT NO LONGER OPERATES HERE, THEY NEGOTIATED AS PART OF BEING ABLE

TO OPERATE IN THE STATE THAT $1.25 MILLION NUMBER. THE COMPANY THAT

OPERATES IN THE STATE AND MAKES $1 BILLION IN PROFITS. IT'S PROTECTING THE

INDIVIDUALS WHO UTILIZE THE SERVICE, THE PEOPLE WHO SHARE THE ROADS

WITH THE INDIVIDUALS WHO UTILIZE THE SERVICE AND THE PEOPLE WHO OWN

THE CARS. I THINK THAT CHANGING A NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT THAT THEY WERE

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

PERFECTLY CONTENT WITH TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE IN NEW YORK STATE ONLY

FOUR YEARS AFTER IT WAS APPROVED WITHOUT ANY SORT OF STUDY INTO WHETHER

OR NOT THERE NEEDS TO BE A HIGHER LIMIT SHOWS THAT WE ARE DOING THIS

PREMATURELY, AND I WILL BE VOTING IN THE NEGATIVE.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. JENSEN IN THE

NEGATIVE.

MR. SEMPOLINSKI TO HIS VOTE.

MR. SEMPOLINSKI: I'M GONNA BE VOTING IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE BECAUSE I'M IN FAVOR OF LOWERING REGULATIONS TO MAKE IT

EASIER TO DO BUSINESS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. THIS LOWERS

REGULATIONS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO DO BUSINESS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. SEMPOLINSKI IN

THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 15, RULES REPORT NO. 587, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S06757, RULES REPORT NO.

587, SENATOR FERNANDEZ (A08459, SOLAGES, STECK, GRIFFIN). AN ACT TO

AMEND THE MENTAL HYGIENE LAW, IN RELATION TO STATEWIDE OPIOID

SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 15, RULES REPORT NO. 593, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. S08338, RULES REPORT NO.

593, SENATOR MAYER (A08699-A, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, LASHER). AN ACT

TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO CLARIFYING THE STANDARD FOR

WHEN A PRACTICE HAS A DISCRIMINATORY EFFECT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: YES. THIS BILL

WOULD CODIFY THE DISPARATE IMPACT STANDARD FOR EMPLOYMENT

DISCRIMINATION CASES UNDER THE NEW YORK STATE HUMAN RIGHTS LAW,

ENSURING THAT THE CONTINUED PROTECTION NEW YORKERS DISPARATE IN --

IMPACT COMES UNDER ATTACK THROUGH THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS AND

LITIGATION. IT ENSURES THAT NEW YORK'S EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION LAW

CLEARLY INCORPORATES THE DISPARATE IMPACT STANDARD, PROTECTING WORKERS

FROM SYSTEMATIC PRACTICES THAT DIS -- DISPROPORTIONATELY HARM PROTECTED

GROUPS EVEN WITHOUT EXPLICIT INTENT. IT REFLECTS LONGSTANDING FEDERAL

LEGAL STANDARDS UNDER TITLE VII, AND PROVIDES FAIR, TRANSPARENT RULES FOR

BOTH EMPLOYERS AND EMPLOYEES. CODIFYING THIS STANDARD ELIMINATES

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

AMBIGUITY AND ENSURES ACCESS TO JUSTICE FOR THE NEW YORKERS AFFECTED

BY DISCRIMINATORY POLICIES IN THE WORKPLACE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO, IT'S -- IT'S

BEEN A WHILE FOR ME TO ACTUALLY TAKE AN EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION

CASE. IT'S BEEN A COUPLE OF YEARS FOR ME. BUT FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, IT

USED TO BE THAT YOU COULD EITHER FILE -- OR YOU COULD CONCURRENTLY FILE

WITH EEOC AND THE DIVISION OF HUMAN RIGHTS, AND THEN YOU COULD

EITHER THEN BRING YOUR CASE IN STATE COURT OR YOU COULD BRING YOUR CASE

IN FEDERAL COURT OR YOU COULD LEAVE IT IN THE EEOC OR THE DIVISION OF

HUMAN RIGHTS TO COME TO A RESOLUTION. AND THAT -- THAT REALLY HASN'T

CHANGED, RIGHT?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: NO, IT HASN'T

CHANGED.

MS. WALSH: AND, IN FACT, OVER -- SINCE I WAS A LITTLE

BABY ATTORNEY DOING THIS KIND OF WORK, LIKE, 30 YEARS AGO, THE -- THE

HUMAN RIGHTS LAW HAS ACTUALLY GOTTEN BEEFED UP, WHERE IT USED TO BE

THAT YOU COULD GET BETTER REMEDIES BEFORE THE EEOC OR IN FEDERAL

COURT, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOUR ATTORNEY'S FEES, AND THEN THAT GOT CHANGED

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

OVER TIME, WHERE NOW YOU CAN GET THAT PAID FOR AT -- AT THE DIVISION OF

HUMAN RIGHTS OR IN STATE COURT, RIGHT?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: MM-HMM.

MS. WALSH: SO, I UNDERSTAND -- WE HAD A SIMILAR

DEBATE LAST WEEK WITH ANOTHER MEMBER ABOUT A BILL THAT HAD TO DO WITH

TRYING TO ENSURE THAT DISPARATE IMPACT WAS INCLUDED IN HOUSING

DISCRIMINATION LAWS.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: CORRECT.

MS. WALSH: SO IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THIS BILL TAKES A

SIMILAR PATH, BUT HAVING TO DO SPECIFICALLY WITH THE ANTIDISCRIMINATION

LAWS THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: YES, IT'S FAIR TO SAY

THAT.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. AND JUST AS THAT SPONSOR

INDICATED IN DEBATE, THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT POTENTIAL CHANGES

AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL IN THE WAY THAT IT VIEWS DISPARATE IMPACT, AND

MAYBE A MORE UNFAVORABLE VIEW TOWARDS DISPARATE IMPACT THEORIES.

BUT REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENED AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, I MEAN, NEW

YORK CAN ALWAYS OPT TO DO MORE. THAT'S -- I -- I MEAN, I REMEMBER

LEARNING THAT IN FEDERAL PROCEDURE IN LAW SCHOOL THAT FEDERAL LAW

ESTABLISHES THE BASELINE BUT THAT WE CAN ALWAYS DO MORE AT THE STATE

LEVEL. SO EVEN IF SOMETHING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL CHANGES, DON'T WE

ALWAYS HAVE THE EXISTING LAW AT THE STATE LEVEL?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: WELL, WE WANT TO

MAKE SURE. I MEAN, THAT'S WHY -- I MEAN, ESPECIALLY DURING THESE TIMES

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

WHERE THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN ATTACKING DISPARATE IMPACT AT THE

FEDERAL LEVEL THROUGH SOME RECENT EXECUTIVE ORDERS, WE WANT TO MAKE

SURE THAT THE STATE STILL HAS THE AUTO -- AUTONOMY TO PROTECT PEOPLE FROM

BEING TREATED DIS -- DISCRIMINATORY.

MS. WALSH: WHY -- WHY DO YOU THINK THAT

REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENED AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL THAT NEW YORK'S

AUTONOMY WOULD BE IN JEOPARDY? BECAUSE AS I SAID, ISN'T IT ALREADY

VERY CLEAR THAT THE STATE, ANY STATE CAN CREATE ITS OWN LAWS, AS WE HAVE,

THAT PROTECT DISPARATE IMPACT THEORY?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: WELL, AGAIN WE --

WE'RE MAKING SURE -- EXACTLY, THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING THIS. WE WANT TO

PROTECT, JUST IN CASE THAT THERE'S SOME SUPREME COURT RULING THAT TAKES

ANOTHER FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT OR CHANGE THE 14TH AMENDMENT EQUAL

PROTECTION CLAUSE. WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE -- OR THE 5TH

AMENDMENT PROTECTION CLAUSE. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE STATE,

AT LEAST THE STATE OF THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK, ARE PROTECTED.

MS. WALSH: BUT, I MEAN, HASN'T IT -- HASN'T IT BEEN

ESTABLISHED FOR YEARS IN NEW YORK STATE THAT DISPARATE IMPACT CAN BE

USED AS A THEORY? SO A POSSIBLE BASIS FOR CLAIM OF UNLAWFUL

DISCRIMINATION COULD BE ROOTED IN THE THEORY OF DISPARATE IMPACT

COMMONLY USED TO ENFORCE CIVIL RIGHTS WHERE AN ACTION OR PRACTICE,

WHILE APPEARING NEUTRAL ON ITS FACE, DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTS PEOPLE

BASED ON CERTAIN PROTECTED IMMUTABLE CHARACTERISTICS SUCH AS RACE,

CREED, SEX, YOU KNOW, ET CETERA.

(CONFERENCING)

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: YES. SO YOU'RE

CORRECT AND THAT'S CASE LAW. SO IT'S -- IT'S BETTER TO PUT THINGS INTO

STATUTE BECAUSE IT'S STRONGER, AND PREFERABLY LOOK AT STATUTE OVER

COMMON LAW.

MS. WALSH: I SEE. SO THE -- THE CONCERN, THEN, IS

THAT IF THERE ARE CHANGES OR DECISIONAL LAW COMING OUT AT THE FEDERAL

LEVEL, IT MIGHT NEGATIVELY IMPACT OUR ESTABLISHED CASE LAW IN NEW

YORK STATE?

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: YES.

MS. WALSH: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I

APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: MM-HMM.

MS. WALSH: MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MS. WALSH: SO AS I SAID, LAST WEEK WE DEBATED A

VERY SIMILAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION HAVING TO DO WITH, AGAIN, REACTING TO

POSSIBLE CHANGES THAT MIGHT HAPPEN AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. AND AS I SAID

THEN, I'LL SAY AGAIN THAT I WOULD SAY THAT INSTEAD OF REACTING TO

SOMETHING LIKE A -- A POLICY STATEMENT THAT IS A PIECE OF AN EXECUTIVE

ORDER THAT WAS ISSUED ALONG WITH A MILLION OTHER EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT

CAME OUT OF THE -- THE ADMINISTRATION STARTING, YOU KNOW, RIGHT IN --

RIGHT IN JANUARY, I THINK WE OUGHT TO FEEL QUITE SECURE THAT IN NEW

YORK STATE WE HAVE EMBRACED AND FOLLOWED A DISPARATE IMPACT THEORY

IN OUR DECISIONAL CASE LAW. AND I DON'T THINK THAT -- I DON'T THINK THAT

THAT'S GONNA CHANGE. I CAN APPRECIATE -- I THINK THAT THIS BILL AND THE --

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE -- THE PRECEDING BILL LAST WEEK THAT WE DEBATED BOTH ARE REALLY

LOOKING TO -- THE TERM THAT WAS USED WAS TO "TRUMP-PROOF" NEW YORK.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES. IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE ONE LAST WEEK,

YOU'RE -- YOU'RE PROBABLY FOR THE SAME REASONS NOT GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF

THIS ONE EITHER.

YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENTIAL EXECUTIVE ORDER FROM

APRIL OF 2025, IT'S TITLED "RESTORING EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY AND

MERITOCRACY", AND IN THAT THE EXECUTIVE ORDER SOUGHT TO REESTABLISH

WHAT HE -- WITH HE BEING THE PRESIDENT -- TERMED A BEDROCK PRINCIPLE OF

THE UNITED STATES THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE GUARANTEED EQUAL

OPPORTUNITIES, NOT EQUAL OUTCOMES, AND INDICATING HIS DESIRE THAT IT

SHOULD BE THE POLICY OF THE U.S. TO ELIMINATE THE USE OF DISPARATE

IMPACT LIABILITY.

SO WHETHER WE ACTUALLY NEED TO TAKE THIS STEP OR NOT

REMAINS TO BE SEEN. I -- I PERSONALLY THINK THAT WE SHOULD WORRY ABOUT

THINGS THAT ARE ACTUALLY HAPPENING AND NOT THINGS THAT MIGHT POSSIBLY

HAPPEN. ESPECIALLY AS WE'RE DEALING WITH A, YOU KNOW, A CHANGING

SITUATION AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

BUT -- SO I -- I WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. I'D ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME, PARTICULARLY IF

YOU FELT, AS I DID ABOUT, THE BILL THAT WE TOOK UP LAST WEEK BECAUSE THIS

IS REALLY THE SAME THING, JUST APPLYING TO EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION

RATHER THAN HOUSING. BUT -- BUT I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE MAY BE --

THERE MAY BE A SMATTERING OF DIFFERENT VOTES ON THIS.

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM SPEAKER.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MS. BICHOTTE HERMELYN: SO THIS BILL CLARIFIES

THE DIS -- DISPARATE IMPACT, CLARIFIES THE STANDARD FOR WHEN A PRACTICE

HAS A DISCRIMINATORY EFFECT, AND IT PROVIDES THAT AN UNLAWFUL

DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICE MAY BE ESTABLISHED BY SUCH PRACTICES

DISCRIMINATORY EFFECT, EVEN IF SUCH PRACTICES WAS [SIC] NOT MOTIVATED BY

A DISCRIMINATORY INTENT. THERE ARE TWO MAIN KINDS OF EMPLOYMENT LAW

CASES: DISPARATE TREATMENT AND DISPARATE IMPACT. DISPARATE TREATMENT

REQUIRES PROOF THAT THE EMPLOYER WAS MOTIVATED BY DISCRIMINATION,

WHILE DISPARATE IMPACT REQUIRES PROOF THAT A RULE THAT APPEARS TO BE

NEUTRAL ACTUALLY HAS A DISPARATE IMPACT ON MEMBERS OF A PROTECTED

CLASS.

NEW YORK HAS A PROUD TRADITION OF PROVIDING ROBUST

AND EXPANSIVE ANTIDISCRIMINATION PROTECTIONS, ESPECIALLY IN THE

WORKPLACE. THIS LEGISLATION STRENGTHENS THAT COMMITMENT BY CODIFYING

DISPARATE IMPACT AS A FORM OF UNLAWFUL DISCRIMINATION IN THE

WORKPLACE UNDER NEW YORK STATE LAW, AS THOSE VERY PROTECTIONS ARE

UNDER ATTACK BY THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION. DISPARATE IMPACT ANALYSIS

HAS LONG BEEN A KEY TOOL FOR FIGHTING DISCRIMINATION UNDER FEDERAL LAW,

CODIFIED IN TITLE VII. DISPARATE ANALYSIS -- IMPACT ANALYSIS ALLOWS A

PLAINTIFF TO ARGUE THAT PRACTICE OR CONDUCT IS DISCRIMINATORY, REGARDLESS

OF INTENT, IF IT HAS A DISCRIMINATORY EFFECT.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

IN APRIL 2025TH -- 25, THE ADMINISTRATION ISSUED AN

EXECUTIVE ORDER DUBIOUSLY FINDING DISPARATE IMPACT ANALYSIS TO BE

UNCONSTITUTIONAL. THE EXECUTIVE ORDER DECLARED THAT IT IS NOW THE

POLICY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO ELIMINATE THE USE OF DISPARATE

IMPACT ANALYSIS TO FULL EXTENT POSSIBLE TO AVOID VIOLATING THE

CONSTITUTION, FEDERAL CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS AND BASIC AMERICAN IDEALS.

NEVER MIND THAT DISPARATE IMPACT IS CODIFIED IN FEDERAL LAW. DESPITE

THE SHAKY LEGAL GROUND, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS MOVED QUICKLY TO END

CIVIL RIGHTS CASES AND INVESTIGATION BASED ON DISPARATE IMPACT ANALYSIS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT RECENTLY BACKED OUT OF A CONSENT

AGREEMENT IT REACHED WITH THE MARYLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT AFTER

FINDING THAT THE DEPARTMENT HAD ENGAGED IN A DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICE

BY REQUIRING PROSPECTIVE POLICE OFFICERS TO PASS A WRITTEN TEST WHICH

WAS NOT JOB-SPECIFIC. UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION, WE ARE CONCERNED

THAT THE ADMINISTRATION APPOINTED JUDGES FOLLOWING THE EXECUTIVE

ORDER WILL START ROLLING BACK THESE PROTECTIONS. AS A RESULT, ALL NEW

YORKERS WILL BE AT RISK OF BEING SHUT OUT OF JOBS AND PROMOTIONS

BECAUSE OF ARBITRARY DISCRIMINATORY AND UNNECESSARY RULES. IT IS,

THEREFORE, CRUCIAL, CRUCIAL TO PROTECT EMPLOYMENT MOBILITY FOR ALL NEW

YORKERS BY PASSING THIS BILL.

AGAIN, THIS -- THIS LEGISLATION WILL CODIFY DISPARATE

IMPACT ANALYSIS FOR EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION CASES IN NEW YORK

STATE LAW, ENSURING PLAINTIFFS CAN CONTINUE TO BRING DISPARATE IMPACT

CASES UNDER NEW YORK LAW AND AFFIRMING OUR COMMITMENT TO FIGHTING

DISCRIMINATION AND EMPLOYMENT AND IN OUR SOCIETY AT-LARGE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MADAM SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE

AND I ENCOURAGE ALL MY COLLEAGUES DO SO. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. BICHOTTE

HERMELYN IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL, BUT IF

ANYBODY WISHES TO VOTE YES THEY MAY DO SO NOW AT THEIR SEATS.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE SUPPORTING THIS

PIECE OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, SHOULD ANYONE DESIRE NOT TO, THEY SHOULD

FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEAT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. BURDICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR

THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

FOR BRINGING THIS BILL. IT'S ONE THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO OUR STATE TO

ENSURE THAT THE DISCRIMINATORY IMPACT, BUT NOT NECESSARILY A

DISCRIMINATORY INTENT, IS CONSIDERED UNLAWFUL. A LABOR ATTORNEY IN MY

DISTRICT HAD BROUGHT THIS BILL TO MY ATTENTION AND WAS VERY CONCERNED IF

THIS MOVED FORWARD IN THE FORM THAT WE SEE IT NOW. AND IT REALLY

BALANCES THE NEED FOR A FAIR STANDARD FOR EMPLOYERS AND OTHER ENTITIES

TO JUSTIFY PRACTICES THAT MAY HAVE DISPARATE IMPACTS BUT STILL SERVE

LEGITIMATE PURPOSES.

SO I PROUDLY VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE MEASURE. THANK

YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BURDICK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. SIMON TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. SIMON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I WANT TO

COMMEND THE -- THE SPONSOR FOR THIS LEGISLATION. IT'S CRITICALLY NEEDED.

AS WE SPEAK THERE ARE -- THERE'S A PROPOSAL TO DIRECTLY CHANGE RULES THAT

HAVE BEEN ADOPTED THROUGH THE NORMAL RULEMAKING PROCESS IN CON -- IN

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THOSE COMMENTS ON THAT ARE DUE THIS

EVENING. THERE'S EXECUTIVE ORDERS SEEKING TO ELIMINATE DISPARATE --

DISPARATE IMPACT STANDARD. SO IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. THE WRITING IS

ON THE WALL; THIS IS WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION INTENDS TO DO. IF THEY DO IT

THROUGH THE REGULAR RULEMAKING PROCESS THEY WILL STILL BE ABLE TO MAKE

SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES, AND THEY HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR YEARS TO ELIMINATE

DISPARATE IMPACT.

SO I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO PROTECT NEW YORKERS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(INDISCERNIBLE) A STANDARD WE'VE BEEN APPLYING IN THE CASE LAW. IT

SHOULD BE CODIFIED SO THAT NEW YORKERS ARE PROTECTED EVEN IF OTHERS IN

OTHER STATES MAY NOT BE.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. SIMON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 17, RULES REPORT NO. 617, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A06314-A, RULES

REPORT NO. 617, WIEDER, WOERNER, PAULIN, MAGNARELLI, EICHENSTEIN,

TAYLOR, TORRES, KAY, WEPRIN, WRIGHT, BENEDETTO, RAJKUMAR, LAVINE,

HEVESI, WILLIAMS, ROZIC, BURDICK, R. CARROLL, SAYEGH, COLTON,

ZACCARO, YEGER, BORES, LEVENBERG, KASSAY, LUNSFORD, P. CARROLL,

EACHUS, E. BROWN, RA, MILLER, BENDETT, CHANG, ANGELINO, GRAY,

JENSEN, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE INSURANCE LAW, IN RELATION

TO ENSURING CONTINUED ACCESS TO BACKUP DEVICES FOR PATIENTS WITH

COCHLEAR IMPLANTS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MR.

WIEDER, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. WIEDER.

MR. WIEDER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ASSEMBLY BILL 6314-A ADDRESSES A CRITICAL GAP IN INSURANCE COVERAGE

FOR NEW YORKERS WITH COCHLEAR IMPLANTS. THIS BILL ENSURES THAT

INDIVIDUALS WHO RELY ON THESE LIFE-CHANGING DEVICES HAVE GUARANTEED

ACCESS TO BACKUP PROCESSORS NOT ONLY AT THE INITIAL IMPLEMENTATION, BUT

THROUGHOUT THE LIFE OF THE DEVICE, INCLUDING DURING NECESSARY UPGRADES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. GANDOLFO.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR PLEASE YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. WIEDER: WITH PLEASURE, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND WE HAD

SOME DISCUSSIONS ON THIS BEFORE THIS DEBATE. SO, ONE THING BEFORE THIS

CONVERSATION PUBLICLY, YOU DESCRIBED THAT THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO THE

ENTIRE UNIT, BUT RATHER THE PROCESSOR OF THE - THE IMPLANT?

MR. WIEDER: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. AND TYPICALLY, WHY WOULD

A BACKUP UNIT BE NECESSARY -- A BACKUP PROCESSOR BE NECESSARY?

MR. WIEDER: TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU

GET A COCHLEAR IMPLANT, THEY WOULD DO THE IMPLANT, WHICH IS A VERY

EXPENSIVE MAGICAL DEVICE FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T HEAR. THAT IMPLANT

GETS INSERTED INTO THE SKULL FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. HOWEVER, THERE'S A

LITTLE PIECE, A PROCESSOR, THAT IT GETS CONNECTED TO THAT IMPLANT AND YOU

HAVE TO CHARGE THAT PROCESSOR. THAT PROCESSOR OVER THE YEARS NEEDS TO

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

BE UPGRADED EVERY FOUR TO SIX YEARS AND THE OLD ONE BECOMES OBSOLETE.

INSURANCE COMPANIES WOULD PROVIDE TWO SETS OF PROCESSORS AT THE

INITIAL IMPLANT BECAUSE THEY FEEL IT'S ESSENTIAL. THESE PROCESSORS NEED

TO BE CHARGED. THEY CAN MALFUNCTION. THEY COULD BE LOST. AND IT'S

CRITICALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A BACKUP DEVICE. WHEN WE

NEED TO CHARGE OUR PHONE, YOU COULD CHARGE THE PHONE AND STILL USE IT.

YOU CAN'T CHARGE THE PROCESSOR AND STILL USE THAT PROCESSOR.

MR. GANDOLFO: OH, OKAY. SO WHILE THE

PROCESSOR IS BEING CHARGED, THE UNIT IS RENDERED, I GUESS, USELESS AND

THE INDIVIDUAL WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HEAR OR HEAR AS WELL AS THEY SHOULD

BE?

MR. WIEDER: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. NOW, TYPICALLY WHAT -- DO

YOU KNOW THE COST OF A PROCESSOR OUT-OF-POCKET, A BACKUP PROCESSOR IF

IT'S NOT BEING COVERED BY INSURANCE?

MR. WIEDER: IT -- IT VARIES. THE COST COULD BE ANY

-- COULD BE 1,500, 2,000, 3,000. IT VARIES ON THE -- ON THE MAKE AND

MODEL, AND IT -- IT DEPENDS -- FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANY, IF -- IF THEY

GET A MSRP, YOU KNOW, ON -- ON -- ON THE PROCESSOR.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. AND YOU MENTIONED THAT A

LOT OF INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL PROVIDE A BACKUP WHEN THEY ORIGINALLY

GIVE IT TO THE -- THE PATIENT. WHY DO THEY STOP PROVIDING THE BACKUP IF

THEY CONTINUE TO BE RENDERED OBSOLETE, AND I GUESS THE PEOPLE WHO

NEED THEM END UP NEEDING ANOTHER BACKUP?

MR. WIEDER: THEY -- THEY DO PROVIDE A PROCESSOR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

TO REPLACE THE OLD ONE. WHAT THEY DON'T PROVIDE IS A BACKUP PROCESSOR.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. WIEDER: SO YOU GET THE IMPLANT, YOU -- YOU GO

THROUGH THE SURGERY. YOU GET TWO PROCESSORS, YOU GO HOME. YOU USE

IT FOR FIVE YEARS AND THEN THE OLD ONE BECOMES OBSOLETE.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. WIEDER: THE INSURANCE COMPANY WILL THEN GO

AND UPGRADE, BUT THEY ONLY GIVE YOU ONE PROCESSOR.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO WE -- THERE'S REALLY NO

REASON FOR THAT. THEY JUST DECIDE AFTER THAT -- AFTER YOU GET THE BACKUP

PROCESS -- PROCESSOR THE FIRST TIME, THAT'S ENOUGH. THEY JUST -- I GUESS

WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS, WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT THE INSURANCE

COMPANY DOESN'T WANT TO PROVIDE THE BACKUPS MOVING FORWARD?

MR. WIEDER: YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MY GUESS.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. FAIR ENOUGH.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE. AND THANK YOU

TO THE SPONSOR FOR THE EDUCATION ON THE DEVICES AND FOR ANSWERING MY

QUESTIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

HERE WE HAVE ANOTHER INSURANCE MANDATE. AND INDIVIDUALLY, EACH

MANDATE DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A LOT, BUT TAKEN AS A COLLECTIVE -- WE DO A LOT

OF MANDATES ON INSURANCE COMPANIES HERE, AND WHEN YOU ADD THOSE ALL

UP, THAT REALLY DOES START TO RAISE THE PREMIUM COSTS. BUT, HOWEVER,

AFTER OUR DISCUSSION HERE YOU CAN SEE THAT NOT ALL MANDATES ARE CREATED

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EQUAL. SOME DEFINITELY SEEM MORE NECESSARY THAN OTHERS. BUT I THINK

IT SHOWS THAT WE SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER MANDATES THAT

WE DO PUT ON THE INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT MAYBE THEY AREN'T AS

NECESSARY AND MAYBE WE CAN KEEP THE COSTS DOWN SO WE DON'T HAVE TO

WORRY ABOUT THE COST TO PROVIDING TRULY NECESSARY COVERAGE FOR PEOPLE

WHO NEED IT; WHO NEED IT FOR THEIR DEVELOPMENT, ESPECIALLY YOUNG

CHILDREN. IF THEY HAVE TO CHARGE THIS PROCESSOR, IF THERE IS A DELAY IN

GETTING A NEW PROCESSOR, THEY ARE LEFT WITHOUT HEARING, WHICH JUST

SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE.

SO I DO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS

HERE. I'M GOING TO BE VOTING FOR THIS BILL. LIKE I SAID, THIS IS A -- A

LAPSE OF COVERAGE HERE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. WIEDER.

MR. WIEDER: ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. WIEDER: ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

COLLEAGUES, I RISE TODAY TO URGE YOUR SUPPORT FOR ASSEMBLY BILL

6314-A, LEGISLATION THAT CLOSES A DANGEROUS AND UNNECESSARY GAP IN

INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR NEW YORKERS WHO RELY ON COCHLEAR IMPLANTS.

COCHLEAR IMPLANTS MAGICALLY RESTORES HEARING FOR

INDIVIDUALS WITH PROFOUND HEARING LOSS. MANY OF THEM CHILDREN. BUT

LET'S BE CLEAR. THE SURGERY ITSELF DOESN'T RESTORE THE HEARING. IT'S THE

EXTERNAL PROCESSOR, THE SMALL WEARABLE DEVICE THAT CAPTURES SOUNDS,

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CONVERTS THEM INTO DIGITAL SIGNALS AND SENDS THEM TO THE INTERNAL

IMPLANT. WITHOUT THE -- THAT PROCESSOR, THERE IS NO HEARING. NO ACCESS

TO LANGUAGE. NO COMMUNICATION. NO AWARENESS OF SOUND. AND THAT

BRINGS US TO THE PROBLEM THIS BILL ADDRESSES. EVEN WHEN THE PROCESSOR

IS WORKING AS INTENDED, IT STILL NEEDS TO BE CHARGED, OFTEN DAILY.

DURING CHARGING TIME, IF THERE IS NO BACKUP, THE USER IS CUT OFF FROM

THE WORLD. FOR A CHILD IN SCHOOL THAT MEANS MISSING INSTRUCTION. FOR

AN ADULT AT WORK IT MEANS DISCONNECTION. AND IN ANY SETTING IT CAN

MEAN MISSED EMERGENCY ALARMS, TRAFFIC SOUNDS OR SAFETY WARNINGS.

WHILE SOME INSURANCE PLANS PROVIDE A BACKUP

PROCESSOR AT THE TIME OF THE IMPLANTATION, INSURANCE COVERAGE ALMOST

NEVER INCLUDES A BACKUP PROCESSOR WHEN PATIENTS RECEIVE REQUIRED

UPGRADES EVERY FEW YEARS. IF THAT NEW UPGRADED PROCESSOR

MALFUNCTIONS, IS LOST OR IS DAMAGED, PATIENTS, OFTEN CHILDREN, ARE LEFT IN

COMPLETE SILENCE.

ASSEMBLY BILL 6314-A ENSURES THAT NEW YORKERS WHO

DEPEND ON COCHLEAR IMPLANTS HAVE GUARANTEED COVERAGE FOR BACKUP

PROCESSORS NOT ONLY AT THE INITIAL IMPLANTATION, BUT THROUGHOUT THE LIFE

OF THE DEVICE, INCLUDING DURING NECESSARY UPGRADES. WE -- WE CANNOT

ALLOW PATIENTS, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, TO BE LEFT WITHOUT HEARING SIMPLY

BECAUSE THE PROCESSOR IS CHARGING, MALFUNCTIONING OR DAMAGED. THIS

BILL BRINGS MUCH-NEEDED CLARITY AND PROTECTION TO A VULNERABLE

POPULATION. IT IS A MATTER OF CONTININITY [SIC], OF CARE, EQUITY, SAFETY

AND DIGNITY.

I RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT ON THIS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

COMMONSENSE LEGISLATION. NO CHILD, NO PARENT, NO NEW YORKER SHOULD

BE FORCED INTO SILENCE BECAUSE THEIR VOICES OF CONCERNS WERE UNHEARD

AND THEIR INSURANCE FAILED TO KEEP PACE WITH THEIR DAILY REALITIES.

I WILL BE VOTING PROUDLY YES AND ENCOURAGE ALL MY

COLLEAGUES TO VOTE YES. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1,

2027.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 18, RULES REPORT NO. 639, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A08702, RULES REPORT

NO. 639, ROSENTHAL, LASHER. AN ACT TO AMEND SUBPART A OF PART BB OF

CHAPTER 56 OF THE LAWS OF 2021 RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A COVID-19

EMERGENCY RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM AND AMENDING THE STATE

FINANCE LAW RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A COVID-19 EMERGENCY RENTAL

MUNICIPAL CORPORATION ALLOCATION FUND, IN RELATION TO EXTENDING THE

EFFECTIVENESS OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS THEREOF.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON A MOTION BY MS.

ROSENTHAL, THE SENATE BILL IS BEFORE THE HOUSE. THE SENATE BILL IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ADVANCED.

AN EXPLANATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. ROSENTHAL.

MS. ROSENTHAL: THIS BILL WOULD EXTEND A

PROVISION OF THE COVID-19 EMERGENCY RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM

THAT PROHIBITS LANDLORDS FROM INITIATING MONETARY ACTION OR PROCEEDING

FOR THE COLLECTION OF RENT COVERED BY AN ERAP PAYMENT THAT A LANDLORD

REFUSED TO ACCEPT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MORINELLO.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MORINELLO: THANK YOU. IS THERE A DEFINITION

OF "REFUSED."?

MS. ROSENTHAL: UM --

MR. MORINELLO: AS IT -- AS IT APPLIES TO THIS

PARTICULAR BILL.

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, I THINK IT'S THE SAME

DEFINITION AS REFUSED WOULD APPLY TO ANYTHING ELSE. THEY DECIDED NOT

TO -- NOT TO ACCEPT THE PAYMENT THAT WAS OFFERED HIM FOR RENT OWED.

MR. MORINELLO: COULD THAT OFFERED PAYMENT OF

RENT BE LESS THAN THE AMOUNT THAT IS DUE?

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, IT -- IT DEPENDS. IT'S --

ERAP COVERED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RENT, AND I GUESS THAT'S WHAT --

YEAH, IT WOULD COVER -- IT COVERED THE AMOUNT OF RENT THAT WAS DUE

WITHIN A CERTAIN TIME FRAME.

MR. MORINELLO: SO IF, IN FACT, THE AMOUNT DUE

WAS GREATER THAN THE AMOUNT THAT WAS TENDERED BY THE PROGRAM, WOULD

THAT BE GROUNDS TO THEN REFUSE IT?

MS. ROSENTHAL: I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE GROUNDS

FOR REFUSAL WOULD BE, PARTICULARLY WHEN DURING -- DURING COVID WHEN

PEOPLE WERE HURTING ALL OVER THE PLACE AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

GAVE US FUNDING SO THAT WE COULD PAY FOR PEOPLE'S RENTS; PEOPLE WHO

WERE UNEMPLOYED, LOST THEIR JOB, AND LANDLORDS WHO NEEDED THE RENT

PAID. SO THAT WAS THE WHOLE ERAP PROGRAM. SOME LANDLORDS SAID, I

DON'T WANT YOUR MONEY, AND THAT WAS KIND OF ODD. BUT THAT'S WHAT THIS

BILL CONCERNS.

MR. MORINELLO: THIS BEING YOUR BILL, DO YOU

HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF WHY OR WHAT -- WHY THERE WOULD BE A REFUSAL TO

ACCEPT MONIES THAT ARE DUE AND OWING ON RENT?

MS. ROSENTHAL: I -- YOU KNOW, IF YOU -- I REALLY

CANNOT. I REALLY CANNOT CONCEIVE OF IT, ESPECIALLY AT A TIME WHEN

PEOPLE NEEDED -- NEEDED THEIR RENT PAID. A REFUSAL TO ACCEPT IT, TO ME,

SIGNALED SOME KIND OF OTHER MOTIVE.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. AND WHAT WOULD THOSE

MOTIVES BE?

MS. ROSENTHAL: I DO NOT KNOW. I CAN'T GET IN THE

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HEAD OF A LANDLORD WHO REFUSED TO ACCEPT MONEY THAT WAS GUARANTEED,

LIKE A WHOLE YEAR OF RENT. I DON'T KNOW WHY SOMEONE WOULD REFUSE IT.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE RULES AROUND WHAT HAPPENS IF A LANDLORD REFUSES THE

MONEY.

MR. MORINELLO: DURING YOUR PREPARATION AND

REVIEW OF THIS BILL, DID YOU DO ANY INVESTIGATING OR INQUIRIES OF

LANDLORDS AS REASONING FOR THEM TO REFUSE?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YOU KNOW, THE MOTIVE FOR

REFUSAL IS IMMATERIAL. THIS JUST CONCERNS LANDLORDS WHO DID REFUSE.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, YOU SAY THE MOTIVE IS TO

REFUSE IS IMMATERIAL. BUT THERE MAY BE A LEGITIMATE REASON THAT WOULD

HOLD UP IN A COURT OF LAW. SO THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING, DID YOU DO ANY

INQUIRIES OF LANDLORDS AS TO WHAT REASONING COULD BE FOR A REFUSAL?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE

LANDLORDS WHO DIDN'T LIKE THE OTDA GUIDELINES THAT CAME WITH

ACCEPTING THE RENT. SOME LANDLORDS DID NOT WANT TO RAISE THE RENT

BECAUSE THERE WERE PROVISIONS IN IT IF YOU ACCEPT THE MONEY THERE WERE

CERTAIN RULES AROUND IT.

MR. MORINELLO: AND ONE OF THOSE RULES IS THEY

COULDN'T RAISE THE RENT FOR A YEAR.

MS. ROSENTHAL: YUP.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. AND HOW LONG DID THIS

PROGRAM GO ON DURING COVID? MORE THAN A YEAR?

MS. ROSENTHAL: THE -- THE APPLICATIONS CLOSED

ON -- LET ME SEE WHAT DATE -- UM, JANUARY 15TH -- JANUARY -- SORRY,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

JANUARY 20, 2023. THAT'S WHEN THE PORTAL CLOSED.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. SO FOR A LANDLORD TO

ACCEPT THAT PAYMENT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO FORGO ANY INCREASES FOR A

YEAR; AM I CORRECT?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YES.

MR. MORINELLO: DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, IF

TAXES INCREASED THEY COULD NOT INCREASE THEIR RENT, CORRECT?

MS. ROSENTHAL: CORRECT.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. IF YOU --

MS. ROSENTHAL: THAT IS -- THAT IS THE DEAL.

MR. MORINELLO: IF UTILITIES INCREASED, THEY COULD

NOT INCREASE THEIR RENT.

MS. ROSENTHAL: THAT WAS THE DEAL.

MR. MORINELLO: SO IS THERE A POSSIBILITY THE

LANDLORD WOULD REFUSE BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE LOSING MONEY OVER THAT

NEXT PERIOD OF TIME, AND THE INABILITY TO EITHER FINANCE THEIR BUILDING,

REPAIR IT OR ANY OTHER REASONINGS?

MS. ROSENTHAL: YOU KNOW, IF THAT WERE ME AND I

GOT A WHOLE YEAR'S RENT, I WOULD ACCEPT THAT.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, BUT IF THEY'RE LIVING IN

YOUR PREMISES, WOULDN'T THEY BE ENTITLED TO THAT RENT?

MS. ROSENTHAL: EXCUSE ME?

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, YOU SAID --

MS. ROSENTHAL: I CAN'T HEAR YOU. I CAN'T HEAR

YOU.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MR. MORINELLO: -- YOU GOT A WHOLE YEAR'S RENT,

YOU'D BE HAPPY. WELL, IF SOMEBODY IS RENTING, THEY'RE OBLIGATED TO PAY

THAT RENT. SO YOU'RE MAKING IT LIKE THIS IS A GIFT TO A LANDLORD.

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, ACTUALLY IT WAS. IF YOU

RECALL COVID, PEOPLE WERE MASSIVELY UNEMPLOYED. PEOPLE LOST THEIR

JOBS. WE ALL STAYED HOME AND WE COULD WORK REMOTELY. BUT THERE

WERE SO MANY PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY -- ERAP WAS A PROGRAM IN

EVERY STATE. SO IT'S NOT PARTICULAR TO NEW YORK STATE, AND THESE

CONDITIONS WERE ONES THAT WERE SIMILAR IN OTHER STATES.

MR. MORINELLO: SO WHAT ABOUT THOSE THAT JUST

WOULDN'T PAY RENT? AND THERE WERE -- WERE STORIES.

MS. ROSENTHAL: WELL, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS BILL --

IF THEY DIDN'T PAY RENT, A LANDLORD CAN GO AFTER THE RENT.

MR. MORINELLO: NO, NO, NO. WHAT I'M SAYING IS,

DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME THERE'S CERTAIN PEOPLE THAT JUST REFUSED TO PAY

RENT BECAUSE THEY WANTED MORE FREE -- YOU KNOW, NEW YORK STATE IS

THE FREE STATE. EVERYTHING IS FREE IN NEW YORK. EVERYBODY WANTS

EVERYTHING FOR FREE.

MS. ROSENTHAL: I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

MR. MORINELLO: WELL, WE DO EVERYTHING IN THIS

-- IN THIS BODY TO MAKE THINGS FREE, AND I DON'T THINK THEY REALIZE AT

SOME POINT YOU'RE GONNA RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. BUT BOTTOM

LINE IS, WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE IS TYING LANDLORDS' HANDS BY -- IF THEY

WERE TO ACCEPT BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T RAISE THE RENT. WHAT IF THEY

REPAIRED? COULD THEY GET THE REPAIR MONEY BACK?

348

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. ROSENTHAL: I -- I -- I WISH YOU'D TRY TO THINK

BACK TO WHEN COVID WAS.

MR. MORINELLO: OH, I THINK ABOUT COVID, MS.

MS. ROSENTHAL: SO MANY PEOPLE WERE

UNEMPLOYED. SO MANY PEOPLE WISHED THEY COULD PAY RENT BUT THEY

DIDN'T HAVE A JOB. IF YOU REMEMBER THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE,

YOU'LL REMEMBER HOW ERAP WAS CREATED ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL BECAUSE

SO MANY PEOPLE COULD NOT PAY THE RENT. AND SO MANY, MANY LANDLORDS

WERE VERY HAPPY TO ACCEPT THE RENT. IN FACT, WE CREATED A WHOLE

SEPARATE FUND FOR LANDLORDS.

MR. MORINELLO: ALL RIGHT. SO LET ME ASK YOU

THIS: LET'S ASSUME A LANDLORD REFUSED THE RENT, BUT THAT TENANT HAD

DAMAGED THE PROPERTY. WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO PROCEED ON AN EVICTION

FOR DAMAGE TO THE PROPERTY?

MS. ROSENTHAL: I DON'T KNOW IF LANDLORDS EVICT

PEOPLE BASED ON DAMAGE. IF THEY WANT TO TRY TO EVICT, I GUESS THEY'LL

CALL THE TENANT INTO COURT AND THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO SO.

MR. MORINELLO: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH

FOR ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. SHOULD THERE BE ANY VOTES IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, PLEASE CAST

THEM NOW AT YOUR SEAT.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, THE

MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION;

HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN EXCEPTION.

THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: WE ARE MOVING RIGHT

ALONG HERE. WE'RE GONNA GO TO THE NEXT FOUR BILLS THAT WE HAVE ON OUR

AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING. THEY ARE RULES REPORT NO. 668 BY MR.

BRONSON, RULES REPORT NO. 675 BY MR. OTIS, RULES REPORT NO. 686 BY

MS. GALLAGHER AND RULES REPORT NO. 698 BY MR. PRETLOW.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: PAGE 18, RULES

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

REPORT NO. 668, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. A07388, RULES REPORT NO.

668, MS. -- SENATOR RAMOS (BRONSON, COLTON, JACOBSON,

LASHER--A07863). AN ACT TO AMEND THE LABOR LAW, IN RELATION TO

ENACTING THE "REMEDIAL CONSTRUCTION OF NEW YORK LABOR LAW ACT".

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. BRONSON.

MR. BRONSON: YES, MADAM SPEAKER. THIS BILL

CODIFIES ROUGHLY 70 YEARS OF JURISPRUDENCE DIRECTING COURTS TO INTERPRET

THE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW YORK LABOR LAW LIBERALLY FOR THE

ACCOMPLISHMENT OF THEIR REMEDIAL PURPOSES. THE COURTS WOULD ALSO BE

DIRECTED TO INTERPRET ANY EXCEPTIONS OR EXEMPTIONS NARROWLY TO -- TO

DETER UNLAWFUL CONDUCT. THIS BILL WILL PROTECT WORKERS AND PREVENT

HARM TO WORKERS FROM UNSCRUPULOUS EMPLOYERS WHO SEEK TO

CIRCUMVENT THE LABOR LAW. THE BILL IS GOOD FOR WORKERS AND GOOD FOR

FAIR, LAW-ABIDING EMPLOYERS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. DURSO.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. BRONSON: YES, I WILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MR. BRONSON. SO, WHAT IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE REASON FOR CODIFYING INTO LAW NOW?

MR. BRONSON: YES. THROUGH YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER, WE NEED TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE NOTWITHSTANDING 70

YEARS OF COURTS INTERPRETING OUR NEW YORK STATE LABOR LAWS IN A LIBERAL

FASHION, FOR THE PURPOSE OF BENEFITING WORKERS AND TO MAKE SURE THAT

EMPLOYERS ABIDE BY THE LAW AS CONSTRUCTED BY NEW YORK STATE. WE

HAVE SEEN RECENT AND -- AND HISTORICALLY, THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATION

[SIC] ACT HAS BEEN SAID TO BE PARALLEL TO MANY OF OUR NEW YORK STATE

LABOR LAWS; LIKE, WAGE LAWS, MINIMUM WAGE, OVERTIME, THINGS OF THAT

NATURE. SO, TYPICALLY THE COURTS SAY, WE'RE GONNA INTERPRET SIMILAR TO

OUR INTERPRETATION UNDER THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS ACT.

UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S BEEN A DIVERGENT BY SOME FEDERAL COURTS, NOT

MOST, BUT SOME FEDERAL COURTS, WHO ARE NO LONGER INTERPRETING AND

MAKING SURE THAT OUR LAWS -- OUR NEW YORK STATE LABOR LAWS ARE

LIBERALLY CONSTRUED FOR THE BENEFIT OF WORKERS. SO, TO MAKE SURE THAT

THAT TREND DOESN'T CONTINUE AND TO FULFILL THE POLICY OF NEW YORK STATE

OF HAVING WORKER PROTECTION, WE'RE CODIFYING THIS STATUTORY

CONSTRUCTION.

MR. DURSO: SO, WILL THIS BILL IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR

FORM, CIRCUMVENT OR SIDESTEP FEDERAL LAW WHEN IT COMES TO LABOR

PROTECTIONS AT ALL?

MR. BRONSON: NO. THIS -- THIS BILL IS ABOUT THE

INTERPRETATION OF NEW YORK STATE LABOR LAW. AND THIS BILL, AS --

AGAIN, IS CODIFYING 70 YEARS OF COURT CASES AND THIS BILL IS MAKING SURE

THAT WE'RE PROTECTING WORKERS HERE IN NEW YORK STATE. THIS IS NOT A

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

UNIQUE SITUATION. WE HAVE PRECEDENT FOR IT. WE CODIFIED, I BELIEVE IT

WAS IN 2019, THE SAME PROVISION FOR OUR HUMAN RIGHTS LAW,

ANTIDISCRIMINATION LAWS HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.

MR. DURSO: SO, IN OTHER WORDS, IF -- LET'S SAY THAT

THERE IS A LABOR ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT BY FEDERAL COURTS AND

THEY -- THEY, ESSENTIALLY, DON'T HAVE THE JUDGES, OR COURTS, OR THE

AVAILABILITY TO LOOK INTO THESE CASES. WILL NEW YORK STATE THEN STEP IN

TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE NEW YORK STATE WORKERS ARE PROTECTED? OR --

MR. BRONSON: NO. NO. THIS IS IF YOU HAVE A

PLAINTIFF OR YOU COULD HAVE A -- A PLAINTIFF WHETHER IT'S THE -- ON THE

EMPLOYEE SIDE OR THE EMPLOYER SIDE AND THE COURT IS BEING ASKED TO

INTERPRET NEW YORK STATE LABOR LAW, THIS IS GOING TO REQUIRE THAT COURT

TO DO SO UNDER THE POLICY OF THE STATE, WHICH IS TO CONSTRUCT IT LIBERALLY

FOR THE REMEDIAL PURPOSES OF THE LAW; AND THAT IS TO PROTECT WORKERS AND

MAKE SURE EMPLOYERS ARE ACTING FAIRLY IN THE WORKPLACE.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. AND THEN JUST FOR CLARIFICATION;

WHEN WE SAY, TO LOOK AT THE LAW "LIBERALLY". CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN WHAT

YOU MEAN IN REGARDS TO LABOR PROTECTIONS?

MR. BRONSON: SO THAT MEANS NOT TO CONSTRUE IT

RESTRICTIVELY. NOT TO NARROW THE INTERPRETATION IN SUCH A WAY THAT

YOU'RE NOT FULFILLING THE -- THE INTENT AND THE SPIRIT OF OUR LABOR LAWS

AND THAT GENERAL POLICY IS TWOFOLD. ONE, IS TO PROTECT WORKERS AND,

TWO, IS TO MAKE SURE THAT EMPLOYERS ARE ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD,

BECAUSE WE'RE REQUIRING EMPLOYERS TO ACT WITHIN THE LAW.

MR. DURSO: OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. BRONSON.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR YOU.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

MR. BRONSON: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. SEMPOLINSKI.

MR. SEMPOLINSKI: ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. SEMPOLINSKI: I JUST WANT TO, SORT OF -- I

GUESS, SORT OF EXPLAIN MY VOTE. I'M GOING TO BE VOTING NO AND I DON'T

WANT IT TO BE INTERPRETED AS I'M FOR OR AGAINST ANY PARTICULAR PROVISION

OF LABOR LAW, OR FOR OR AGAINST LABOR IN GENERAL. BUT, ON PRINCIPLE, I

FEEL THAT THIS TYPE OF LAW, THOUGH, I KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS ON THE BOOKS,

IS INAPPROPRIATE TELLING JUDGES TO SQUINT AT STATUTE IN A PARTICULAR WAY, I

FEEL IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. ARTICLE 3, SECTION 1 OF THE NEW YORK STATE

CONSTITUTION READS IN ITS ENTIRETY: THE LEGISLATIVE POWER OF THE STATE

SHALL BE VESTED IN THE SENATE AND ASSEMBLY. IF WE WANT TO HAVE A

LIBERAL LABOR LAW, WE SHOULD WRITE A LIBERAL LABOR LAW. IF WE WANT TO

HAVE MORE CONSTRAINED LABOR LAW, WE SHOULD WRITE A MORE CONSTRAINED

LABOR LAW. THAT'S OUR JOB. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DO.

SO, ON -- ON PRINCIPLE, I CAN'T VOTE FOR THIS TYPE OF LAW,

BUT I'M HAPPY TO CONSIDER ANY PROPOSALS THAT THE SPONSOR OR ANYONE

ELSE PUTS FORWARD IN THE LABOR SECTOR.

(PAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. BRONSON TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BRONSON: YES, MADAM SPEAKER. I ABSTAIN

FOR THE PURPOSES OF EXPLAINING MY VOTE. I DON'T WANT US TO GET HUNG UP

ON THE WORD "LIBERAL". THIS ISN'T THE POLITICAL CONTEXT. WE'RE NOT

TALKING ABOUT LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVE. THIS IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE

INTENT OF OUR LABOR LAWS ARE AND THE BILL MERELY REQUIRES WHAT MANY

COURTS HAVE HELD UNTIL RECENTLY. AND THAT IS, THE NEW YORK LABOR LAW

WAS WRITTEN TO PROTECT WORKERS FROM UNLAWFUL AND ABUSIVE PRACTICES. IT

WAS ALSO WRITTEN TO MAKE SURE THAT EMPLOYERS OPERATE WITHIN THE

FRAMEWORK OF THE LAW AND TO KEEP THEM ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. YOU

CAN LOOK AT MISCLASSIFICATION OF WORKERS AND INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR

SITUATIONS. YOU CAN LOOK AT EMPLOYERS WHO CHEAT THEIR -- THEIR

EMPLOYEES ON OVERTIME, OR ON PAYING MINIMUM WAGE, OR ON BREAK

TIME. THINGS OF THAT NATURE. ALL WE'RE SAYING IS TO THE COURT, TO LOOK AT

THOSE CASES AND CONSTRUE THE LAW IN A FASHION THAT FILLS THE PURPOSE AND

THE SPIRIT AND INTENT OF THE LABOR LAWS. AND THAT IS TO PROTECT WORKERS

AND TO KEEP EMPLOYERS HONEST AND LAWFUL.

SO, FOR THOSE REASONS, MADAM SPEAKER, I WITHDRAW

MY REQUEST AND I WILL VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BRONSON IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

(PAUSE)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 19, RULES REPORT NO. 675, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE A07501-A, RULES REPORT NO.

675, SENATOR MAYER (OTIS, BUTTENSCHON, CLARK, LUPARDO, SANTABARBARA,

EACHUS, LEVENBERG, KELLES, BENDETT, LUNSFORD, BURDICK, MAHER,

SIMPSON, ANGELINO, SHIMSKY, BARRETT, GLICK, BLUMENCRANZ,

DESTEFANO, REYES, JACOBSON, STECK, SEAWRIGHT, GRAY, BLANKENBUSH,

GALLAHAN, MCDONALD--A08086A). AN ACT TO AMEND THE GENERAL

MUNICIPAL LAW AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO EMERGENCY

MEDICAL SERVICES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. OTIS.

MR. OTIS: THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION

TO DEAL WITH AN ISSUE THAT THE LEGISLATURE AND THE EXECUTIVE HAVE BEEN

UNABLE TO COME TO CONCLUSION ON WHICH IS, HOW DO WE MOVE THIS STATE

FORWARD IN TERMS OF REMEDYING A CRISES IN EMS SERVICE AROUND THE

STATE? AROUND THE STATE, WE HAVE SERVICES THAT ARE DROPPING OUT. WE

HAVE TROUBLE MAINTAINING STAFFING. WE HAVE TROUBLE IN TERMS OF

RESPONSE TIME, THE RESPONSE TIME NUMBERS ARE GETTING WORSE AND SO,

THERE HAVE BEEN PROPOSALS BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE THE LAST FEW YEARS AND

PROPOSALS DISCUSSED IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET TO TRY AND COME TO GRIPS WITH

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THIS AND COME WITH -- COME UP WITH A PATH FORWARD. THE EFFORTS BY THE

GOVERNOR AND THE TWO HOUSES IN THE BUDGET THIS YEAR WERE

UNSUCCESSFUL AND SO THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE BUDGET TO SORT OF PROVIDE

THE EMS REFORM KIND OF MODEL THAT MANY OF US ARE LOOKING FOR. SOME

TALK OF IT IN TERMS OF IT DEFINING IT AS AN ESSENTIAL SERVICE, BUT REALLY, THE

-- THE MAIN GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S RELIABLE EMS SERVICE FOR

EVERY RESIDENT OF THE STATE.

WHAT THIS BILL DOES, AT LEAST PROVIDES AN IMPORTANT

STEP FORWARD FOR THE REST OF THIS YEAR, WHICH IS IT ASKS COUNTIES TO

CONVENE MEETINGS AND A PLANNING PROCESS WITH THE VILLAGES, CITIES AND

TOWNS WITHIN THOSE COUNTIES, THOSE FOUR DIFFERENT KINDS OF

MUNICIPALITIES TO BE EQUAL PARTNERS AND TO ALSO WORK WITH OTHER PEOPLE

-- OTHER GROUPS ALREADY INVOLVED. THE NOT-FOR-PROFITS, THE FOR-PROFITS,

THE FIRE DISTRICTS AND OTHERS PROVIDING SERVICE TO DO A NUMBER OF

IMPORTANT THINGS; TO EVALUATE THE EXISTING LEVEL OF SERVICE IN THEIR

COUNTY, TO COME UP WITH A PLAN FOR HOW THEY'RE GOING TO ADDRESS AREAS

THAT NEED INCREASED SERVICE IN THEIR COUNTY. THERE ARE AREAS WHERE

SERVICE HAS BEEN DIMINISHED, WHERE THERE ARE GAPS. THIS IS THE KIND OF

PLAN THEY SHOULD COME UP WITH TO CHOOSE WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST

ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE WITHIN THE COUNTY TO DEAL WITH THIS -- WITH THIS

ISSUE ESPECIALLY IN AREAS WHERE SERVICE NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED. AND

FINALLY AND VERY IMPORTANTLY, TO COME UP WITH COST ESTIMATES TO

PROVIDE SERVICE GOING FORWARD; SOMETHING THAT WILL BE IMPORTANT FOR

THIS LEGISLATURE TO DEAL WITH NEXT SESSION AS WE TRY AND UNDERSTAND NOT

JUST WHERE THE GAPS ARE, BUT WHAT IT WILL TAKE TO CLOSE THOSE GAPS.

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AND HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS? THIS IS IMPORTANT

BECAUSE WE'RE LOSING LIVES WHEN PEOPLE DON'T GET EMERGENCY SERVICE

RESPONSE IN A TIMELY FASHION. WE NEED TO DO -- DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

THIS LEGISLATION RESPECTS THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF STRUCTURES AND AS

OPPOSED TO THE OTHER KINDS OF APPROACHES THAT HAVE BEEN SORT ALBANY

DOWN, TOP DOWN AND YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT THIS WAY. THIS LEGISLATION

GIVES IT -- PROVIDES A PROCESS BY WHICH IT'S FROM THE BOTTOM UP. LET THE

LOCALS IN EACH COUNTY FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO FILL THE GAP

AREAS AND COME BACK WITH A PLAN THAT WE CAN LOOK AT, THAT THE

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH CAN LOOK AT AND WE CAN COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS

THAT WILL SERVE EMERGENCY RESPONSE IN AN INTELLIGENT WAY THROUGHOUT

THE ENTIRE STATE, HAVE US GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION RATHER THAN THE

WRONG DIRECTION.

HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MAHER.

MR. MAHER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. OTIS: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MAHER: THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP ON THIS

ISSUE. IT'S CERTAINLY A -- A SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN A PASSION PROJECT OF

MINE SINCE I WAS ELECTED. I KNOW IT CAN BE A COMPLICATED ISSUE, SO I

JUST HAVE A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS SINCE THE -- THE BILL DID CHANGE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SPEAKING TO THE BILL CHANGES, HOW HAS THIS BILL CHANGED FROM ITS

ORIGINAL FORM? WHAT -- WHAT IS THE MEAT OF THAT CHANGE?

MR. OTIS: SO, THE BILL THAT WE HAD IN FROM LAST YEAR

AND WAS MOVED TO A CERTAIN DEGREE IN OUR HOUSE, PASSED THE OTHER

HOUSE LAST YEAR, WAS A COMPREHENSIVE ESSENTIAL SERVICE -- TREAT EMS AS

AN ESSENTIAL SERVICE BILL, WHICH MANY WANT AROUND THE STATE.

ALTHOUGH, THERE -- THERE -- IT'S -- AS YOU SAID, IT'S COMPLICATED. THERE

ARE A LOT OF PLAYERS AND SO WE'VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET THE TWO HOUSES TO

EVEN AGREE, OR THE GOVERNOR TO AGREE ON A PLAN FORWARD AND SO, MY

FEELING WAS, LET'S NOT HAVE THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION BE ANOTHER YEAR

WHERE WE DON'T AT LEAST GET PEOPLE WORKING ON IT. MY VISION IS THAT

LET'S GET ALL THE LOCAL PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER AND THE COUNTIES ARE

GOING TO CONVENE THESE MEETINGS, BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY

COUNTY-CENTRIC, BECAUSE IN SOME COUNTIES, THE COUNTIES DON'T DO EMS

AT ALL. SOMETIMES THEY'RE DONE BY FIRE DISTRICTS, MUNICIPALITIES,

FOR-PROFIT, NON-FOR-PROFIT. SO, LET THEM TELL US WHAT WOULD BE BEST IN

THEIR COUNTY AND HOW THEY COULD GROW IN THE GAP AREAS IN A WAY THAT IS

-- IS TRUE TO WHAT'S GOING ON THERE AND I THINK THAT'S A BETTER PATH

FORWARD. I -- I REALLY DO AND I'M -- I'M A FORMAL LOCAL OFFICIAL. I DEAL

WITH EMS PEOPLE AND I -- I THINK IF WE REALLY -- WE WANT THIS TO PASS

AND WE WANT IT TO GET SIGNED QUICKLY BECAUSE THE BILL ACTUALLY ASKS THAT

THEY COME UP WITH A PLAN WITHIN SIX MONTHS. AND WHILE THAT SEEMS

LIKE A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, I WILL TELL YOU, WE DON'T WANT TO WASTE -- WE

DON'T WANT TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS IN 2027. WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS

IN 2026, IN NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION, WHEN WE HAVE SOME FEEDBACK

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

FROM THESE PLANS THAT -- THAT HOPEFULLY ALL THE LOCALS WOULD -- WOULD --

WOULD COME TOGETHER WITH.

MR. MAHER: WELL, YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT AND

SOME OF THE FEEDBACK I'VE GOTTEN SINCE THIS BILL WAS REWRITTEN A LITTLE

BIT, IS THAT SOME OF THOSE PARTNERS, THERE'S NO REAL MANDATE FOR THEM TO

BE PART OF THOSE COUNTY CONVERSATIONS AND THE WAY THIS BILL IS WRITTEN,

SOME FEAR THAT IT WILL BE DONE BY THE COUNTIES WITH NO FEEDBACK. IS

THAT SOMETHING THAT WAS A CONCERN WITH YOU AND THE WAY THE BILL IS

WRITTEN, IS THERE REALLY ANYTHING IN THERE THAT MANDATES COUNTIES TO

WORK WITH SOME OF THESE PARTNERS?

MR. OTIS: WELL, YES AND ACTUALLY, THE BILL IS VERY

INTENTIONALLY WRITTEN SO -- SOMEONE HAS TO CALL THE MEETINGS. SO,

COUNTIES WILL CALL THE MEETING, BUT THE COUNTIES ARE -- HAVE NO HIGHER

PLACE THAN A VILLAGE, A TOWN, OR A CITY IN THE -- IN THIS -- IN THE WAY THIS

IS DRAFTED. SO -- AND THAT WAS VERY INTENTIONAL BECAUSE IN SOME PLACES,

IT MAY BE A CITY DOES A REALLY GOOD JOB FOR THEIR AREA, A TOWN MAY DO A

GOOD JOB IN THEIR AREA AND THEN THERE BE -- MAY BE OTHER AREAS WHERE

THERE ARE GAPS. THERE IS SOME COUNTIES THAT AREN'T IN THE EMS SPACE AT

ALL. SO, SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN FLOATING AROUND MADE

IT ALL COUNTIES ARE GOING TO COME UP WITH A COUNTY PLAN, BUT WHY WOULD

YOU HAVE A COUNTY DO A COUNTY PLAN, WHEN A COUNTY -- SOME COUNTIES

MAY HAVE NO EXPERIENCE IN EMS.

SO, THIS IS THE RIGHT APPROACH AND I WILL JUST TELL YOU,

MY COMMITMENT IS TO WORK -- IF -- IF WE GET THIS SIGNED, IS ALSO TO WORK

WITH THE VARIOUS PARTIES AND THE -- THE ASSOCIATIONS; NYSAC,

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

ASSOCIATION OF TOWNS, NYCOM TO TRY AND PROMOTE THIS PROCESS GOING

FORWARD. I'M NOT HERE JUST TO PASS A BILL AND SAY, SO LONG. I THINK THAT

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PROCESS BETWEEN NOW AND BEFORE WE GO

TO THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS PRODUCTIVE, SO THAT WE ALL HAVE

SOMETHING THAT WE CAN MAKE ALL THE RESIDENTS THAT WE REPRESENT SAFER

AND THAT SOMEBODY CAN COME AND -- AND PROVIDE EMERGENCY SERVICE

WHEN THEY NEED IT.

MR. MAHER: OKAY. SO, I AGREE WITH JUST ABOUT

EVERYTHING YOU SAID, BUT I THINK AS THE BILL IS WRITTEN, THERE ARE SOME

CONCERNS, ESPECIALLY FEEDBACK THAT I'VE GOTTEN THAT THERE IS NO REAL

MANDATE FOR THE COUNTY TO WORK WITH ALL THOSE AGENCIES YOU

MENTIONED, ALTHOUGH THEY SHOULD. THAT'S JUST ONE CONCERN, BUT WE CAN

DEFINITELY MOVE ON FROM THAT.

WHEN IT COMES TO THE POTENTIAL ESTIMATES ON FUNDING,

I KNOW THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A WHILE, YOU'VE BEEN

CHAMPIONING IT FOR A WHILE, WERE THERE ANY ESTIMATES IN YOUR

DISCUSSIONS THAT CAME UP ON WHAT THIS POTENTIALLY COULD COST STATEWIDE

AND WAS THAT A ROADBLOCK DURING THE DISCUSSIONS IN THE BUDGET?

MR. OTIS: NO, WE DON'T HAVE ESTIMATES BECAUSE

ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT HAS ARISEN IN THIS IS PEOPLE

AREN'T REALLY TALKING. A LOT OF -- A LOT OF AREAS THEY -- THEY IDENTIFY

GAPS, BUT THEY DON'T REALLY -- MAYBE DON'T WANT TO ADMIT TO ALL THE GAPS,

BUT -- BUT PART OF THE -- PART OF THE TASK IS; COME UP WITH -- IDENTIFY

WHERE SERVICE NEEDS TO BE IM -- IMPROVED, IDENTIFY -- THEN WE'RE GOING

TO HAVE THESE FOUR DIFFERENT ENTITIES SIT DOWN AND OTHERS THAT ARE

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PLAYERS WITHIN A GIVEN COUNTY AND -- AND THEN SAY, OKAY, HERE'S WHERE

WE HAVE A GAP AND LET THEM SAY WHAT WOULD BE THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY

TO DO IT IN OUR AREA AND HAVE THEM COME UP WITH COST ESTIMATES. I DON'T

THINK THEY EXIST NOW AND PARTICULARLY ADDED TO THIS BILL, WHICH WAS NOT

IN THE EARLIER DRAFTS, WAS THIS REQUEST FOR COST ESTIMATES BECAUSE I THINK

WE NEED SOMETHING OF VALUE TO THEN COME TO GRIPS WITH WHAT WE, AT THE

STATE LEVEL, CAN DO TO HELP. AND -- AND IF WE JUST SAY IT'S AN ESSENTIAL

SERVICE AND WE DON'T PROVIDE ANY -- WE DON'T HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHAT IT

COSTS, THAT'S NOT REALLY FAIR EITHER. SO, I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT STEP

FORWARD AND I'M -- I -- YOU CAN TELL MY PASSION --

MR. MAHER: I CAN TELL.

MR. OTIS: -- BUT I, IN A SENSE, LIKE ALL OF US, WE'VE

LOST PATIENCE WITH THE FACT THAT WE'RE LOSING SERVICE. EVERY YEAR, I GET

REPORTS FROM AROUND THE STATE WHERE -- WHERE DIFFERENT SERVICES ARE

CLOSING OR SHUTTING DOWN BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE IT WORK. THAT'S

UNACCEPTABLE. AND SO, WE CAN --

MR. MAHER: SURE. NO AND --

MR. OTIS: -- CHANGE DIRECTION AND I THINK WE'RE ON

THE SAME PAGE.

MR. MAHER: I THINK WE ARE, BUT I -- I THINK WITH THE

WAY THAT THE BILL IS WRITTEN, THERE -- THERE ARE COME CONCERNS AND I

DON'T DOUBT THE LEADERSHIP YOU'LL PROVIDE IN YOUR DISTRICT AND HOPEFULLY

OTHERS WILL DO THE SAME, BUT WHERE THERE IS A LEADERSHIP GAP AND

INFORMATION GAP TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER, I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE A

PROBLEM WITH HOW THIS BILL IS SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

SPEAKING OF UNFUNDED MANDATES, I AGREE WITH YOU. I

THINK IF YOU PASS ESSENTIAL SERVICE AND DON'T HAVE A DOLLAR AMOUNT

ATTACHED, IT IS ESSENTIALLY AN UNFUNDED MANDATE AND WE DON'T WANT THAT

EITHER. THIS BILL THOUGH, WITH THE PLANS BEING PUT IN PLACE BY COUNTIES,

SOME OF THOSE COUNTIES MAY WANT TO CHOOSE TO HIRE A CONSULTANT. THEY

MAY WANT TO CHOOSE NOT TO JUST USE IN HOUSE OR SOME OF THEIR PARTNERS.

BY THEM CHOOSING TO -- TO GO THAT ROUTE, WOULDN'T THIS BILL THEN BECOME

AN UNFUNDED MANDATE IN AND OF ITSELF?

MR. OTIS: WELL, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LOVE TO, AS

MANY OF US WOULD, THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF THINGS WE WOULD LIKE; MONEY

AND BUDGETS TO HAVE HAPPEN, BUT THE PRACTICAL MATTER IS, THERE'S A GREAT

INTEREST OF THE LOCAL LEVEL TO DO SOMETHING. SO, I THINK THEY WILL FIGURE

IT OUT. BUT, I ALSO -- I -- I -- I -- IN -- IN -- IN DUE DIFFERENCE, I'M NOT

SURE I AGREE WITH YOUR CHARACTERIZATION OF THE -- THE LANGUAGE HERE

BECAUSE THE LANGUAGE VERY SPECIFICALLY SAYS, COUNTIES WITH CITIES,

TOWNS AND VILLAGES. IT'S NOT LIKE IF THEY FEEL LIKE IT, IT'S -- IT'S -- IT IS

SAYING --

MR. MAHER: SO, YOU READ IT AS SHALL. NOT MAY,

SHALL.

MR. OTIS: YEAH -- YES AND I THINK THERE'S NO WAY --

MR. MAHER: OKAY. GOOD TO KNOW.

MR. OTIS: -- TO DO IT CORRECTLY, UNLESS YOU HAVE ALL

FOUR AT THE TABLE.

MR. MAHER: I AGREE. I'M JUST -- I'M GLAD THAT

YOU'RE MENTIONING THAT AND YOUR -- YOUR VIEW OF HOW THIS IS WRITTEN IS

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

THEY SHALL, BECAUSE THAT SHOULD BE PUT OUT THAT WAY TO THE COUNTIES AS

WELL.

MR. OTIS: AND WE'VE ENHANCED THE LEGISLATIVE

RECORD BY THIS DISCUSSION.

MR. MAHER: THAT'S THE PART -- THAT'S OUR PLATFORM,

RIGHT? OKAY, PERFECT.

ALL RIGHT. SO, MOVING ON. WERE THE REGIONAL EMS

COUNCILS, THE REMSCOS, WERE THEY TALKED TO DURING THIS PROCESS WHEN

THIS BILL WAS AMENDED?

MR. OTIS: WELL, I MEAN, THEY HAVE BEEN PART OF THE

-- THE STATEWIDE DISCUSSION FOR A FEW YEARS. DID WE SPEAK TO THEM IN

TERMS OF THE DRAFTING OF THE BILL? NO, BUT I HAVE THEM DOWN HERE. I

SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED TO BE CONSULT -- THAT THEY SHOULD BE CONSULTED

AS PART OF THIS BECAUSE THOSE ARE GENERALLY -- THE LIST OF PEOPLE, I'VE

LOOKED OVER -- OVER THE LIST -- LIST OF PEOPLE, ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE

INVOLVED THROUGHOUT THE STATE IN THIS. SO, YOU WANT TO HAVE THEM AS

PART OF THE CONVERSATION. I ALSO THINK THAT COUNTIES WITHIN REGIONS CAN

LEARN FROM EACH OTHER, SO HAVING THE -- THE DISCUSSIONS GOING ON WITH

THE REGIONAL FOLKS, WILL ALSO MAYBE INFORM DECISIONS THAT PEOPLE MADE

COMING UP WITH THESE COUNTY PLANS.

MR. MAHER: NOW, I DON'T DISAGREE. I KNOW FOR

SOME OF THESE EMS COUNCILS, IT'S GOING TO BE A BIT OF A -- A LOAD

BECAUSE LIKE MANY OF THEM, I KNOW THE HUDSON VALLEY I THINK THERE'S

SEVEN DIFFERENT COUNTIES THEY'LL BE WORKING WITH, RIGHT? SO, ON TOP OF

THE WORKLOAD THAT THESE PROVIDERS ARE ALREADY, YOU KNOW, SERVICING, IT

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

-- IT COULD BE QUITE A BIT OVER THE SIX-MONTH PERIOD AND -- AND I WANT TO

ASK YOU, ARE YOU AWARE OF SOME OF THE FINANCIAL STRAINS THAT ARE

CURRENTLY ON THOSE REGIONAL EMS'S, THOSE REMSCOS, THOSE 18

THROUGHOUT THE STATE?

MR. OTIS: THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS UNDER STRESS. I

MEAN, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF -- OF THE PROBLEM WE HAVE HERE. BUT,

YOU KNOW, THEIR ROLE HERE, I MEAN, THE LANGUAGE IS IN COORDINATION WITH

THEIR REGIONAL EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES COUNCIL. IT'S A CONSULTATION

THING. THIS IS REALLY MEANT TO BE COUNTIES, VILLAGES, CITIES AND TOWNS

WITHIN A COUNTY SITTING DOWN WITH EACH OTHER, BUT THEY SHOULD -- THEY

SHOULD BE IN CONSULTATION WITH THE REGIONAL FOLKS JUST SO THE REGIONAL

FOLKS SHOULDN'T BE LEFT OUT OF THE DISCUSSION AND SO THAT'S EITHER GOING

TO HAPPEN NATURALLY, OR NOT HAPPEN -- NOT NATURALLY, OR NOT, BUT IT --

THEY'RE LISTED HERE BECAUSE CLEARLY THEY SHOULD BE SOME LEVEL INVOLVED.

MR. MAHER: I DON'T DISAGREE. SO, JUST TO BRING TO

YOUR ATTENTION; IN MY CONVERSATIONS WITH THE REGIONAL COUNCILS, THEY'RE

HAVING A MAJOR CRISIS IN TERMS OF CASH FLOW. THEY'RE OPERATING ON A --

A CONTRACT FROM 2024. THEY JUST HAD A NEW CONTRACT THAT WAS

APPROVED; HOWEVER THEY HAVE NOT BEEN PAID FOR A VERY LONG TIME. I

KNOW IN THE HUDSON VALLEY ALONE, THEY'RE OWED OVER $200,000 BY THE

STATE. I KNOW THAT SOME COUNTY EMS' ARE ACTUALLY CONSOLIDATING NOW

WITH SOME OF THESE REMSCOS BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT HAD THE CASH

FLOW TO DO THE DUTIES THAT THEY'VE BEEN ASKED TO DO. SO, WOULD YOU

AGREE THAT IT IS INCUMBENT ON US AS ELECTED OFFICIALS TO USE OUR POSITIONS

WHETHER THIS BILL IS PASSED, OR WHATEVER HAPPENS, TO ACTUALLY WORK WITH

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DOH OR WHATEVER THE STATE ENTITY IS THAT'S HOLDING THESE FUNDS UP,

BECAUSE WHAT THESE REGIONAL -- THOSE REMSCOS ARE BEING TOLD IS THAT

SOME OF THEM HAVE TWO MONTHS LEFT IN ORDER TO HAVE ANY BILLS

WHATSOEVER PAID. THEY'RE JUST GOING TO BE OUT OF MONEY IN TWO

MONTHS, BUT THEY'RE BEING TOLD BY THE STATE THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO

RECEIVE FUNDS FOR FIVE TO SIX MONTHS. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THAT'S A

PROBLEM THAT WE OUGHT TO REALLY FIGURE OUT AND USE OUR OFFICES TO HELP?

MR. OTIS: ABSOLUTELY, BUT I -- I WOULD SAY MORE

BROADLY THERE ARE FINANCIAL GAPS IN THIS WHOLE SYSTEM STATEWIDE AND SO,

THAT'S ONE PIECE OF IT, BUT THERE ARE THE -- THE FINANCIAL VIABILITY OF THESE

OPERATIONS AROUND THE STATE. OTHERS ARE GOING -- ARE GOING TO CLOSE IF

WE DON'T DO SOMETHING. SO, IT'S PART OF A BIG -- BIGGER PICTURE WITH

DOB, WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, WITH THE LEGISLATURE, NEXT YEAR'S

BUDGET. AND -- AND SO, YOU'RE -- YOU'RE -- YOU'RE -- YOU'RE MENTIONING

A SLIVER, BUT IT -- IT'S ACTUALLY MORE ENDEMIC TO HAVE EVERY ONE OF THESE

ENTITIES FUNCTION. THEY'RE HAVING TROUBLE HOLDING ON TO STAFF.

MR. MAHER: I -- I DON'T DISAGREE AND I THINK

OBVIOUSLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE REIMBURSEMENT AND HOW FUNDING GETS

TO THOSE LOCAL EMS AGENCIES, WE COULD DO A LOT MORE TO GET THE

BUREAUCRACY AND RED TAPE OUT OF THE WAY THERE SO THEY CAN HAVE CASH

FLOW AS WELL. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE REMSCOS, THESE ARE THE FOLKS

THAT ARE ACTUALLY CHARGED WITH CREATING THE CONS. I MEAN, THEY -- THEY

HAVE A REALLY ESSENTIAL JOB AND WHAT WE'RE BEING TOLD IS WITHIN TWO TO

THREE MONTHS, THEY MAY NOT HAVE ANY -- ENOUGH CASH FLOW TO -- TO EXIST.

SO, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I HAVE YOUR WORD THAT WE CAN PARTNER

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ON THIS TO MAKE SURE THAT --

MR. OTIS: HAPPY TO DO IT.

MR. MAHER: -- WE CAN GET THROUGH THIS RED TAPE SO

THOSE REMSCOS CAN, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THEIR SERVICE.

MR. OTIS: HAPPY TO DO IT.

MR. MAHER: THANK YOU. AWESOME.

OKAY. SO, WE ALSO JUST PASSED A -- ANOTHER BILL THAT I

BELIEVE WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON WHAT WE DO HERE WITH THE ESSENTIAL

SERVICE AND THIS PLAN AND THAT IS TO ALLOW MUNICIPALITIES TO OVERRIDE THE

TAX GAP. NOW, DO YOU VIEW THAT AS CREATING A COMPETITIVE

DISADVANTAGE WITH SOME OF THE PRIVATE COMPANIES IN TERMS OF SERVICE?

MR. OTIS: ACTUALLY, I DON'T BECAUSE IF A PRIVATE

COMPANY IS, AS MANY ARE, CONTRACTED WITH MUNICIPALITIES, I DON'T SEE

HOW -- MY BELIEF IS THAT THOSE FUNDS COULD BE USED --

MR. MAHER: IT'S FOR THEM AS WELL.

MR. OTIS: -- TO -- TO FOR THEM AS WELL. AND I'D SAID

FOR THE FOUR PROFITS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL, I

SPECIFICALLY MENTION FOR-PROFITS TO GIVE THEM RESPECT AND TO SHOW WE

UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE MIX. SO, IT -- IT --

THEY'RE THERE BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THEY'RE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE

PUZZLE AND THEY SHOULD FEEL THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE

HELPFUL TO THEM, AS WELL AS WE ALSO MENTIONED THE NOT-FOR-PROFITS, WE

MENTIONED THE MUNICIPALS, WE ALSO MENTIONED THIS COULD BE DONE BY

INTER-MUNICIPAL AGREEMENT BY DISTRICT. SO, MY VIEW IS THAT AS LOCALS

COME UP WITH CHOICES FOR ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE, THEY SHOULD BE

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AWARE OF THE FULL RANGE OF OPTIONS THEY HAVE BEFORE THEN FOR SETTING UP

AN IMPROVED SERVICE IN THEIR AREA.

MR. MAHER: THANK YOU FOR THAT. THE SIX-MONTH

TIME FRAME, WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? WHY DO WE PICK SIX MONTHS?

MR. OTIS: BECAUSE JANUARY IS ESSENTIALLY SIX

MONTHS AWAY AND WHILE IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S QUICK, WE WOULD -- I WOULD

HOPE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SOME OTHER ADVANCES IN THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE

SESSION. SO, IF THAT -- IF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED THAT'S A SHORT PERIOD OF

TIME TO FIGURE OUT SOMETHING MORE COMPLICATED, WELL, DO WHAT ALL OF US

DO, WHICH IS WORK HARD WITH VERY LITTLE TIME TO DO QUALITY WORK AND --

AND I KNOW WHEN I WAS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, THAT'S WHAT YOU DO. YOU DO

WHAT YOU DO WITHIN THE TIME FRAMES THAT ARE NEEDED TO GET THINGS DONE.

THIS IS THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF PEOPLE, SO WHAT -- WE SHOULDN'T WAIT, I

DON'T WANT, AS I SAID EARLIER, I DON'T WANT TO WAIT TILL 2027 TO MAKE

FURTHER GAINS. WE WANT TO BUILD ON THESE PLANS AND FIGURE OUT A PATH

FORWARD IN THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

MR. MAHER: SO, THE PLAN IS AND THE REASON WHY THE

SIX- MONTH TIME FRAME WAS SELECTED, IS THERE IS A REAL DESIRE BY THIS

BODY AND HOPEFULLY BOTH BODIES AND THE GOVERNOR TO PUT SOME SORT OF

FUNDING IN PLACE TO NOT CREATE AN UNFUNDED MANDATE IF AND WHEN WE

REALLY DO ESSENTIAL SERVICE, POTENTIALLY IN THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

MR. OTIS: WELL, I WOULD HOPE SO. I -- I MEAN, I

WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, IN SPEAKING TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE

STATE, YOU'D GET DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ON THE -- THE MANDATE ISSUE.

SOME LOCAL GOVERNMENTS SAY, WE JUST WANT TO DO IT. WE'LL RAISE THE

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TAXES, WE DON'T, YOU KNOW. AND OTHERS SAY, NO, WE WANT MONEY. WE

SHOULD ADDRESS WITH THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF NEEDS AND BE FLEXIBLE --

FLEXIBLE WITH THAT. BUT, IT -- IT'S NOT UNIFORM AND SOME -- SOME

MUNICIPALITIES WANTED THE ESSENTIAL SERVICE MANDATE BECAUSE THEY

WANTED TO SAY, OH, WELL, WE NEED -- WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO IT AND WE'RE

GOING TO RAISE YOUR TAXES TO DO IT.

MR. MAHER: SO --

MR. OTIS: SOMEONE'S GOING TO HAVE TO PAY. YOU

KNOW, YOU -- IF YOU'RE -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO HIRE ADDITIONAL PEOPLE AND

YOU'RE GOING TO DO AMBULANT -- HIGHER -- EQUIPMENT STUFF, WE'RE GOING

TO HAVE TO COME UP WITH SOME MONEY SOMEWHERE.

MR. MAHER: SO, YOU BRING UP ANOTHER GREAT POINT

AND -- AND I'M HAPPY WE'RE DOING THIS BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE HAVE A LOT

OF QUESTIONS AND RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE ANSWERING THEM AND I -- I REALLY

THINK WE OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO PUT SOMETHING OUT TO THEM FROM, YOU

KNOW, YOUR LEADERSHIP AND WHOEVER'S RESPONSIBILITY IT'S GOING TO BE,

REAL CLEAR DIRECTION THAT STATES EXACTLY WHAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING, WHAT

THE BENCHMARKS ARE. WHEN IT COMES TO ALL OF THESE PARTNERS THAT WE

HAVE IN PLACE, IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THEY KNOW WHAT THEIR ROLES ARE

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW FROM THE FEEDBACK THAT I'VE GOTTEN, IT SEEMS LIKE

THERE'S A BIT OF CONFUSION. SO, I THINK GOING FORWARD, BEING ABLE TO

MAKE SURE WE MAKE IT CLEAR HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK IS IMPORTANT,

ESPECIALLY THE DESIRE TO CREATE A FUNDING MECHANISM AND THE REASON

THAT SIX-MONTH TIME FRAME WAS SELECTED IS FOR THAT PURPOSE, BECAUSE A

LOT OF FOLKS ARE SAYING IT'S NOT ENOUGH TIME. THEY'RE PROBABLY RIGHT, BUT

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WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, HEY, WE'VE WAITED TOO LONG. THIS IS A DIRE

EMERGENCY, PEOPLE ARE DYING AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO GET OUR ACTS

TOGETHER AND WORK TOGETHER. IS THAT WHAT I'M BASICALLY HEARING?

MR. OTIS: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. MAHER: OKAY. ME AND YOU CAN AGREE ON THAT.

I THINK WITH ENOUGH COLLABORATION AND COMMUNICATION, WE CAN

DEFINITELY ANSWER FOLKS' QUESTIONS, BUT THEY CERTAINLY HAVE A LOT OF

QUESTIONS, WHICH A LOT OF THEM ARE GETTING ANSWERED HERE.

OKAY. I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ANSWERS.

I'M GOING TO GO ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. MAHER: ALL RIGHT. SO, DURING MY TIME AS A

SUPERVISOR OF THE TOWN OF MONTGOMERY IN 2020, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS

THAT I DID WAS I IDENTIFIED THE FACT THAT WE HAD A VERY SIGNIFICANT

SHORTFALL IN OUR EMS SERVICES. I LEARNED LIKE MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES

WHAT THE DIFFERENCE WAS BETWEEN ALS AND BLS SERVICES, THAT FOLKS

WERE NOT ABLE TO PROVIDE THOSE ALS SUPPORT. WE WERE GETTING IT

FUNDED PRIVATELY AND THEN THE PRIVATE COMPANIES DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH

STAFFING TO PROVIDE THE ALS SERVICES AND FOLKS WHO HAD A HEART ATTACK

WE'RE WAITING 45 MINUTES, IF AT ALL, TO EVEN GET SERVICE TO HAVE

LIFESAVING TREATMENT. UNACCEPTABLE. THAT WAS 2020. OUR REALITY IS THE

SAME, THE ONLY THING THAT'S CHANGED ARE SOME MUNICIPALITIES, LIKE THE

SPONSOR HAS MENTIONED, INVESTED IN THEIR OWN AMBULANCE DISTRICTS. I

THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THIS PROCESS AND THIS CRISIS WE'RE FACING, IT'S

MULTIFACETED, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A VERY, VERY COMBINED EFFORT APPROACH

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AND WE ABSOLUTELY WILL NEED TO PROVIDE FUNDING FOR SOME OF THESE

MUNICIPALITIES BECAUSE WITHOUT FUNDING, THE MUNICIPALITIES HAVE NOT

BEEN ABLE TO PROCEED AND MOVE FORWARD.

SO, I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN CREATE A POSITIVE

STEP, BUT WE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THAT SIX-MONTH PERIOD IS GOING

TO BE VERY, VERY CHALLENGING FOR THESE COUNTIES. AND AS MUCH AS WE

HAVE THE PARTNERS THAT ARE READY AND AVAILABLE TO WORK TOGETHER, THOSE

OF US WHO HAVE SERVED IN ELECTED OFFICE KNOW HOW LOCAL POLITICS CAN

BE, HOW TERRITORIAL FOLKS CAN BE. SO, OVERCOMING THAT IS GOING TO CREATE

-- IS -- IS GOING TO BE REALLY OUR NECESSARY ABILITY AS LEGISLATORS TO ALSO

BE LEADERS IN OUR COMMUNITY, TO ASSIST AS THIS LEGISLATION IS PASSED.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE LABOR SHORTAGES, IT'S REALLY

BAD. AND WHEN IT COMES TO THE COUNTIES, I THINK IT WAS PROBABLY WORTH

SOME LANGUAGE IN HERE, BUT I KNOW THAT WE COULD PROBABLY MONDAY

MORNING QUARTERBACK A LOT OF THIS. WE DEFINITELY WANT TO HAVE THE

COUNTIES MAKE SURE THEY KNOW AND ARE COGNISANT OF THE FACT THAT IF THEY

TRY TO CREATE TOO MANY NEW AGENCIES, THERE ISN'T ENOUGH OF A WORKFORCE

OUT THERE TO SUPPORT THOSE AGENCIES. SO, BUILDING OFF EXISTING AGENCIES

IS LIKELY THE BEST WAY TO GO. I WOULD'VE LIKE TO HAVE SEEN SOME OF THAT

LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL, BUT, OBVIOUSLY, IT'S GOING TO BE A START AND WE'LL

HAVE TO FINISH AND GET THERE TOGETHER. BUT, I DEFINITELY WANT TO MAKE

SURE THAT -- THAT EVERYONE IN HERE IS COGNISANT OF THE FACT THAT IF WE

DECLARED EMS AN ESSENTIAL SERVICE TOMORROW, WE SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE

THE STAFFING TO PROVIDE THE SERVICES. SO, WE NEED TO REALLY THINK

LONG-TERM IN A SUSTAINABLE WAY, WHAT THAT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE AND IN

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REALITY, IT'S GOING TO INCLUDE A LOT OF MONEY. BECAUSE LET'S SAY WE DO

INCREASE THE NUMBER OF AGENCIES AND WE INCREASE THE NUMBER OF

EMPLOYEES AND WE'RE HAVING THESE FOLKS FIGHT OVER THESE EMPLOYEES, IT

IS GOING TO RAISE THE AMOUNT THAT THESE EMPLOYEES ARE PAID WHICH IS

GREAT. OUR EMS PROVIDERS ARE SOME OF THE MOST UNDERPAID FIRST

RESPONDERS IN THE COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK. WE

WANT THEM TO BE PAID MORE. HOWEVER, THAT MEANS THIS STATE, THIS

LEGISLATURE, IS GOING TO HAVE TO FUND IT PROPERLY. IT CANNOT BE A

HALF-FUNDED OR AN UNFUNDED MANDATE IF WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS

PROCESS. HOPEFULLY, NEXT YEAR WE'RE HERE AND WE'RE ADDRESSING THIS

WITH A MEANINGFUL DOLLAR AMOUNT THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS. SO, IT'S

IMPORTANT FOR ME TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS, TO PUT ALL OF THESE THINGS ON

THE TABLE IN THE LIGHT OF DAY, OR THE NIGHT, AS WE ARE HERE. BUT, I JUST

WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALL EYES WIDE OPEN ON THE ENORMOUS

CHALLENGE THAT'S AHEAD OF US.

I -- I DO BELIEVE IN THIS BILL. I THINK IT HAS SOME

CHALLENGES ASSOCIATED WITH IT, BUT I'M READY TO MEET THOSE CHALLENGES

AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THE SPONSOR OF THIS BILL AND

THOSE IN MY COMMUNITY TO MAKE THE BEST OF THIS BILL IN OUR OPPORTUNITY

MOVING FORWARD. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. ANGELINO.

MR. ANGELINO: THANK YOU. WOULD YOU ASK THE

SPONSOR TO YIELD, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

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YIELD.

MR. OTIS: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. ANGELINO: FIRST OFF, I'M A COSPONSOR ON THIS,

THANK YOU. AND THIS IS NOT AN ANTAGONISTIC QUESTION. DO YOU HAVE

EXPERIENCE IN THIS SO THAT MAYBE WE CAN TALK LATER, ALSO?

MR. OTIS: WELL, I WAS A MAYOR --

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY.

MR. OTIS: -- AND THE WAY WE DO IT IN THE COMMUNITY

THAT I SERVED IN IN LOCAL OFFICE, WE HAD A NOT-FOR-PROFIT THAT WAS REALLY

AN INSTRUMENT OF THREE MUNICIPALITIES; TWO VILLAGES AND A CITY, AND

THAT'S THE ENTITY THAT PROVIDES THE SERVICE. AND WE FUNDED PART OF IT,

BUT IT -- IT STRUGGLES. AND SO CURRENTLY THE LOCAL OFFICIALS DOWN THERE

ACTUALLY ARE THINKING THAT MAYBE THEY SHOULD MOVE TO A DISTRICT.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. I REPRESENT FIVE COUNTIES

AND I HAVE FIVE DIFFERENT WAYS OF PROVIDING IT. I HAVE AN URBAN COUNTY,

BROOME COUNTY, THAT THE COUNTY'S NOT REALLY INVOLVED -- I SHOULDN'T SAY

THEY'RE NOT INVOLVED, BUT HEAVILY INVOLVED, BUT THERE ISN'T A -- A COUNTY

AGENCY. THE OTHER FOUR RURAL COUNTIES ALL HAVE BIT THE BULLET AND HAVE

PROVIDED SOME SORT OF COUNTYWIDE EMS. SOME 18 HOURS A DAY, SOME

24/7. IT'S FOUR DIFFERENT -- FOUR DIFFERENT WAYS OF DOING IT.

WHAT -- WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON -- I'M TRYING TO

ROUNDTABLE THIS BECAUSE SOMEHOW I THINK I'M GONNA GET INVOLVED IN

THIS IN ONE OF THE COUNTIES. ONE TIME AS A POLICE CHIEF CAREER I

UNWILLINGLY HAD TO TAKE OVER A FOUR-AMBULANCE FIRE STATION. AND SO I

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GOT DEEPLY INVOLVED. I KNOW THESE REGIONAL MEDICAL COUNCILS. SOME

OF THEM CAN DO THINGS WILDLY DIFFERENT ONE TOWNSHIP AWAY JUST WHERE

THE LINES ARE DRAWN. WHAT ARE YOUR FEELINGS ON THOSE REGIONAL

COUNCILS?

MR. OTIS: I MEAN, MY -- MY FEELING, REALLY, AND YOU

-- YOU'VE SPOKEN TO IT, IT MAKES THE POINT OF MY BELIEF WHICH IS WE

HAVE TO RESPECT THE VARIETY OF WAYS THE SERVICES PROVIDED AROUND THE

STATE AND -- AND LEAVE IT TO LOCAL PEOPLE TO FIGURE OUT WHICH IS THE BEST

MODEL. SO IN SOME PLACES THE COUNTIES PLAY A BIG ROLE AND DIVE INTO IT,

AND OTHER PLACES THEY CONTRACT OUT. IN OTHER PLACES THEY DO A FIRE

DISTRICT. THEY DO AN INTER-MUNICIPAL AGREEMENT. AND I ACTUALLY DON'T

THINK WE SHOULD TELL THEM YOU HAVE TO DO IT A CERTAIN WAY. I THINK THAT

LET THEM FIGURE OUT WHICH IS THE WAY WITH THE LOCAL DYNAMICS THAT THEY

HAVE, BUT I THINK WE WANT TO PROVIDE THE TOOLS SO THAT THE SERVICE GETS

PROVIDED IN A RELIABLE WAY SO THAT PEOPLE AREN'T WAITING AN -- AN IN --

AN UNACCEPTABLE LENGTH OF TIME TO GET AN AMBULANCE TO THEM.

MR. ANGELINO: OH, A LOT OF THE PROBLEM, I CAN TELL

YOU RIGHT NOW IS, MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT. AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT

A QUESTION, IT'S A CONVERSATION.

MR. OTIS: (INDISCERNIBLE) THAT WAS NOT DEALT WITH IN

THIS YEAR'S BUDGET. IT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE REVISITED. I

WOULD THINK MORE GENERALLY IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET BECAUSE THERE'S GREAT

FEAR ABOUT WHAT WASHINGTON IS GONNA DO TO HEALTHCARE FUNDING THAT

PROBABLY PEOPLE WERE PROBABLY A LITTLE GUN SHY ABOUT -- ABOUT

ADJUSTING THAT, KNOWING THAT WE ARE LIKELY TO BE GETTING HIT IN THAT IN

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SEVERE WAYS. BUT YES, THAT IS AN AREA THAT REIMBURSEMENT RATES -- WE --

WE DEALT WITH LAST YEAR THE ISSUE OF TREAT BUT NOT TRANSPORT GETTING

REIMBURSEMENT FOR THAT. IT WAS A GOOD STEP.

MR. ANGELINO: WE -- WE HAVE BEEN DOING LITTLE

NIBBLES HERE AND THERE. THERE'S A LOT TO BE DONE. I KNOW THE -- THE

DIRECT PAYMENT FROM INSURANCE COMPANIES WAS A HUGE HELP.

MR. OTIS: YUP.

MR. ANGELINO: MY AMBULANCE COMPANY THAT --

WE WERE LOSING ABOUT $200,000 A YEAR OF CHECKS THAT WERE SENT OUT BUT

NOT TO US.

THERE'S NO REAL FUNDING IN THIS. I KNOW SOME COUNTIES

ARE GONNA WANT TO -- THEY'RE GONNA TO SEE THAT SIX-MONTH TIME FRAME

AND THEY'RE GONNA WANT TO JUMP INTO THIS AND MAYBE HIRE A CONSULTANT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT. THEY'RE GONNA

SAY, YOU'RE MAKING US DO IT AND THERE'S NO FUNDING FOR IT.

MR. OTIS: WELL, WE -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL

LEGISLATORS AND WE CAN DO WHAT WE CAN DO AND WE CAN'T DO WHAT WE

CAN'T DO. AND SO I -- I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE -- ARE -- I'D -- WHEN I WAS A

LOCAL OFFICIAL, SOMETIMES WE DID PLAN SOME THINGS WITH NO OUTSIDE

MONEY. WE JUST DID PLANS AND GOT PEOPLE IN A ROOM AND FIGURED OUT,

AND I BELIEVE THAT THAT CAN HAPPEN HERE.

MR. ANGELINO: THE RURAL AREAS THAT I HAVE, THE

BIG PROBLEM IS FOR-PROFITS AND EVEN NOT-FOR-PROFITS CAN'T -- IT'S THE

STRANDED COST OF RURAL DISTANCE TO THE NEAREST HOSPITAL AND THE

TURNAROUND TIME. YOU KNOW, IN THE CITY OF SYRACUSE THEY CAN RUN FOUR

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

CALLS AN HOUR. WHERE -- WHERE I AM IT MIGHT TAKE ONE CALL TWO HOURS, IF

YOU'RE LUCKY. BUT I -- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SIX-MONTH TIME FRAME

AND GETTING READY FOR NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET, AND THAT'S ASSUMING THAT WE

PASS IT TONIGHT AND THE GOVERNOR SIGNS IT TOMORROW.

MR. OTIS: WE'LL DO WHAT WE CAN.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT

WORKS, BUT THEY USUALLY HAPPEN IN BETWEEN THANKSGIVING AND

CHRISTMAS.

MR. OTIS: WE'RE -- WE'RE -- CERTAINLY IT'S MY

INTENTION TO REQUEST THAT THE BILL GET TAKEN UP BY THE EXECUTIVE SOONER

RATHER THAN LATER.

MR. ANGELINO: OKAY. THANK YOU. THAT -- THAT'S

A BIG CONCERN WITH THAT SIX-MONTH TIME CRUNCH.

I BELIEVE THAT'S IT. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I AM

DONE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. OTIS: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

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(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 19, RULES REPORT NO. 698, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: SENATE NO. A08413, RULES REPORT NO.

698, SENATOR GOUNARDES (A08870, PRETLOW). AN ACT IN RELATION TO

AUTHORIZING A LOAN FROM THE STATE TO THE CITY OF DUNKIRK (PART A); AND

MAKING AN APPROPRIATION THEREFOR (PART B).

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MOLITOR.

MR. MOLITOR: ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. MOLITOR: SO, THIS IS A GOVERNOR [SIC]

PROGRAM BILL THAT AUTHORIZES A LOAN TO THE CITY OF DUNKIRK, WHICH IS A

CITY IN MY DISTRICT. AND I JUST WANT TO SHARE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND

INFORMATION ABOUT THIS SO THAT EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE VOTING FOR.

SO, THE CITY OF DUNKIRK IS A SMALL CITY WITH A

POPULATION OF SLIGHTLY OVER 12,000 PEOPLE. FIFTY PERCENT OF ITS CITIZENS

IDENTIFY AS A MEMBER OF A RACIAL OR ETHNIC MINORITY. TWENTY PERCENT

SPEAK A PRIMARY LANGUAGE OTHER THAN ENGLISH. TWENTY PERCENT ARE

SENIOR CITIZENS ON A FIXED INCOME. AND THE AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD INCOME

IS $49,000. NEARLY TWO-THIRDS OF THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF DUNKIRK

OWN THEIR HOME. LAST YEAR, THROUGH THE BUDGET, THIS BODY APPROVED

$18.2 MILLION IN MUNICIPAL BOND FUNDING SO THAT THE CITY COULD BEGIN

TO GET ITSELF OUT OF A FAIRLY LARGE DEFICIT. THAT WAS LEGISLATION I WOULD

HAVE SUPPORTED HAD I BEEN HERE, BECAUSE IT AUTHORIZED THE CITY TO SELL

BONDS TO RAISE ENOUGH MONEY TO ADDRESS THE DEFICIT, PAY BACK THE

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BONDS, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, PROVIDED SOME FINANCIAL OVERSIGHT BY THE

COMPTROLLER. IN THE INTERVENING MONTHS SINCE THAT LEGISLATION WAS

PASSED, THE CITY'S FINANCIAL SITUATION HAS WORSENED. THE DEFICIT HAS

GROWN TO OVER $20 MILLION, AND WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TOTAL

DEFICIT AMOUNT IS GONNA BE BECAUSE THE AUDITS HAVEN'T BEEN COMPLETED.

IT HAS BEEN REPORTED THAT THE COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE HAS

OPENED AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE CITY'S FINANCES, AND THERE ARE MANY

ISSUES WITH THE CITY'S OPERATIONAL BUDGET. PROPERTY TAXES THIS YEAR

HAVE INCREASED 84 PERCENT, AND THAT'S WITH THE HOPE THAT THE BUDGET

WILL BE BALANCED. THERE ARE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF DUNKIRK THAT ARE

COMING TO THE REAL PROPERTY TAX DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY, AND THEY ARE

STRUGGLING. THEY DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY'RE GONNA HAVE -- WHETHER

THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO PAY THEIR PROPERTY TAXES OR WHETHER THEY'RE

GONNA BE ABLE TO MEET -- YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE ENOUGH MONEY

FOR THEIR BASIC NECESSITIES.

AS OF MAY 30TH OF THIS YEAR, THE COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE

IN A LETTER HAS REPORTED THAT THE CITY HAS NOT ACTED WITH THE URGENCY AND

TRANSPARENCY REQUIRED TO ADDRESS THEIR FINANCIAL SITUATION. AND IF THAT

WASN'T ALL ENOUGH, THE CITY OWES $12.7 MILLION ON A REVENUE

ANTICIPATION NOTE BY JULY -- SO NEXT MONTH -- OR THEY WILL DEFAULT. AND

WHILE I UNDERSTAND THAT A LOAN TO THE CITY IS NECESSARY SO THAT

MUNICIPAL BOND RATINGS STATEWIDE WILL NOT BE AFFECTED, THIS BILL GIVES

TAXPAYER MONEY TO A CITY WITHOUT THE FINANCIAL OVERSIGHT AND

PROTECTION CITY RESIDENTS NEED AND THAT THE LOAN OF TAXPAYER FUNDS

SHOULD REQUIRE.

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NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 16, 2025

WITH THE LOSS OF THEIR AIM FUNDING, WHICH IS

CONTEMPLATED BY THIS LOAN AND THE ANTICIPATED REPAYMENT OF MUNICIPAL

BONDS ONCE ISSUED, DUNKIRK TAXPAYERS WILL LIKELY SEE MORE DRAMATIC

TAX INCREASES. THESE TAX INCREASES AND -- AND THEIR DETRIMENTAL EFFECT

UPON DUNKIRK'S ECONOMY WILL DRIVE AWAY BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS IN A

AREA OF MY DISTRICT THAT IS ALREADY DEPRESSED. IF YOUR CAR TIRE POPPED,

YOU WOULDN'T TRY TO PUT AIR INTO IT, YOU WOULD FIX IT. WHY WOULD WE

GIVE THE CITY MORE MONEY WITHOUT REQUIRING STRINGENT CONTROLS AND

FINANCIAL ACCOUNTABILITY SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A FIX? WHY DOES THE

INTEREST RATE ON THIS LOAN HAVE TO BE SO HIGH? WHY CAN'T WE PRESERVE

MORE AIM FUNDING? WITH THE LOSS OF AIM FUNDING THEIR REVENUE IS

GONNA GO DOWN AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO INCREASE TAXES FOR THAT AS

WELL.

I FEAR THAT WE'LL BE BACK HERE BEFORE LONG, ADDRESSING

THE SAME UNDERLYING PROBLEM THIS BILL FAILS TO FIX. AND FOR ALL THESE

REASONS, I CANNOT ASK ANY OF YOU TO SUPPORT THIS BILL, AND I WILL NOT BE

SUPPORTING IT, EITHER. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. FOR ALL

THE REASONS STATED BY MY COLLEAGUE, THE MINORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN

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THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. IF ANYONE DOES WISH TO

SUPPORT IT, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME TO DO SO.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. THE MAJORITY CONFERENCE IS GOING TO BE IN FAVOR OF THIS PIECE

OF LEGISLATION; HOWEVER, THERE MAY BE SOME THAT WOULD DESIRE TO BE AN

EXCEPTION. THEY SHOULD FEEL FREE TO DO SO AT THEIR SEATS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD

YOU LAY THIS BILL ASIDE AND WITHDRAW THE ROLL?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE ROLL IS RECALLED.

THIS BILL IS LAID ASIDE.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: WE CAN GO TO PAGE 3 AND

DO CALENDAR RESOLUTIONS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: RESOLUTIONS, PAGE

3, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 809, MR.

BURDICK.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

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KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM SEPTEMBER 19, 2025, AS POW/MIA DAY IN

THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 810, MR.

ANDERSON.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING GOVERNOR

KATHY HOCHUL TO PROCLAIM OCTOBER 16, 2025, AS GET SMART ABOUT

YOUR CREDIT DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE RESOLUTION,

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS

ADOPTED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, DO YOU

HAVE ANY FURTHER HOUSEKEEPING OR RESOLUTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WE DO. A

RESOLUTION BY MS. JACKSON, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NO. 811.

LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION COMMEMORATING THE

OBSERVANCE OF THE 5TH ANNUAL JUNETEENTH DAY IN THE STATE OF NEW

YORK ON JUNE 19, 2025.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. JACKSON ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MS. JACKSON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR

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ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK ON THIS IMPORTANT RESOLUTION.

JUNETEENTH. WHAT IS THAT, RIGHT? LET ME GIVE YOU A

LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY. THE NAME IS A PLAY ON THE DATE OF JUNE 19, 1865.

ON THAT DAY THE UNION ARMY MADE ITS WAY TO GALVESTON, TEXAS UNDER

THE LEADERSHIP OF GENERAL GRANGER TO ANNOUNCE THAT ENSLAVED AFRICAN-

AMERICANS WERE FREE. BUT IF YOU ALL REMEMBER, PRESIDENT LINCOLN

FREED ENSLAVED AFRICANS IN -- IN THE REBELLING STATES IN [SIC] JANUARY 1,

1863. THAT'S A STRAIGHT L TO THE CONFEDERATES; SUCH LOSERS. AND JUST A

REMINDER THAT THE CIVIL WAR ENDED IN APRIL OF 1865. JUST BECAUSE

LINCOLN DROPPED THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION FOR STATES THAT

REBELLED DIDN'T FREE ALL ENSLAVED PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE NATION. THINK

ABOUT STATES LIKE MARYLAND THAT DIDN'T SUCCEED [SIC] FROM THE UNION,

BUT THEY STILL MAINTAINED SLAVERY. WHAT TRULY ABOLISHED SLAVERY FOR

UNION STATES WAS THE END OF THE CIVIL WAR AND THE PASSAGE OF THE 13TH

AMENDMENT. NOW, I CAN GO INTO AN ENTIRE LESSON ABOUT THE 13TH, 14TH

AND 15TH AMENDMENT AND HOW THIS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS WORKED

TO DISMANTLE OVER THE YEARS, BUT WE HAVE TO GET BACK TO JUNETEENTH;

JUNETEENTH AND ITS IMPACT IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

NEW YORK ABOLISHED SLAVERY IN 1827, SO YOU CAN SAY

WE ARE TRENDSETTERS IN THAT REGARD. AND -- AND IT WASN'T BECAUSE THIS

STATE LOVED AFRICAN-AMERICANS SO MUCH AND THEY FINALLY BECAME

GOD-LIKE, BUT ITS ECONOMIC IMPACT NO LONGER FIT THE NEEDS OF THE STATE.

AND SO JUNETEENTH WAS MADE A STATE HOLIDAY IN TEXAS IN 8 -- IN 1980.

IT WAS FIRST OFFICIALLY OBSERVED IN NEW YORK IN 2004. THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT MADE IT AN OFFICIAL HOLIDAY ON JUNE 17, 2021. NEW YORK

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PRETTY MUCH TEACHES THE NATION HOW THINGS OUGHT TO BE DONE. SO IF YOU

WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL, LIKE MYSELF, IN HARLEM, YOU -- YOU NEVER LEARNED

ABOUT JUNETEENTH. I FOUND OUT ABOUT JUNETEENTH FOR THE FIRST TIME AS A

ADULT WHEN I VISITED TEXAS. AND SO SOME OF YOU MAY WONDER, YOU

KNOW, HOW DO YOU CELEBRATE JUNETEENTH AND WHAT IS APPROPRIATE -- AND

NOW THIS IS THE REALLY IMPORTANT PART -- WHAT IS APPROPRIATE? AND THE

FIRST THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT WE MUST REMEMBER ITS ORIGINS. WE MUST

REMEMBER, THIS IS -- THIS IS ABOUT ENSLAVED AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND NO

ELSE RECEIVING THEIR FREEDOM. SO DON'T CONFLATE IT WITH ANYTHING ELSE.

AND I KNOW THIS AIN'T TEXAS, BUT BACK THERE THEY LOVE TO BARBECUE AND

GATHER. IT'S, YOU KNOW, PRETTY REVOLUTIONARY FOR BLACK PEOPLE TO -- TO

GATHER. BUT I BELIEVE IN THE GOOD LORD WHO SAID WHERE TWO OR THREE

ARE GATHERED, YOU ARE THERE IN THE MIDST. SO I OFFER THAT PEOPLE

BARBECUE AND GATHER, AND IT'S SAFE TO DO SO. OTHERS MAY CHOOSE TO REST

AND REMEMBER OUR ANCESTORS WHO WERE STOLEN FROM THEIR HOMELAND.

WHO WERE STRIPPED OF THEIR NATIVE TONGUES AND THEIR CUSTOMS. WHO

SURVIVED AND/OR PERISHED THE MIDDLE PASSAGE. WHO BUILT THIS COUNTRY

FROM THE GROUND UP FOR FREE. WHO EXPERIENCED BLACK CODES AND

RECONSTRUCTION AND JIM CROWE AND MASS IN -- INCARCERATION SO THAT I

CAN STAND HERE AS CHAIR OF THE BLACK TASK FORCE. SO THAT MAJORITY

LEADER CRYSTAL PEOPLES-STOKES CAN BE HERE AS OUR MAJORITY LEADER,

AND OUR SPEAKER CARL HEASTIE CAN BE HERE AS THE SPEAKER. YOU KNOW,

THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN EASY. IT JUST -- IT JUST MEANS IT'S A LOT OF WORK, A LOT

OF YEARS OF US STAYING DEDICATED AS A PEOPLE.

AND SO, MADAM SPEAKER, I SAY TO YOU AND ALL MY

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BLACK COLLEAGUES AND COMMUNITY, HAPPY FREEDOM DAY. HAPPY

JUNETEENTH. AND JUST BECAUSE IT'S BLACK MUSIC MONTH I HAVE TO SAY,

HATE IT OR LOVE IT, THE UNDERDOG'S ON TOP AND WE GON' SHINE UNTIL OUR

HEARTS STOP [SIC].

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES ON THE RESOLUTION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER. I FIRST WANT TO COMMEND THE SPONSOR OF THIS RESOLUTION

BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER HISTORY. I KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE

-- WE'RE LIVING IN A TIME WHEN SOME PEOPLE JUST REALLY WANNA DENY IT

AND THINK THAT THERE WAS NO HISTORY AND TRYING TO ERASE IT, BUT THAT'S NOT

GONNA HAPPEN. IT'S KIND OF TOO LATE FOR THAT. SOME PEOPLE ALREADY

KNOW IT AND, QUITE FRANKLY, THOSE OF US WHO DO ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO

SHARE IT.

I HAD THE HONOR AND THE PLEASURE TO WALK WITH THE

GOVERNOR AS WELL AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ON SATURDAY IN THE 49TH

ANNUAL JUNETEENTH PARADE IN THE GREAT CITY OF BUFFALO. AND SO NEXT

YEAR WE WILL BE CELEBRATING 50 YEARS. SO I KNOW SOME -- SOME JUST

FOUND OUT ABOUT IT, AS OUR SPONSOR MENTIONED, BUT SOME OF US HAVE

BEEN BORN AND RAISED ON UNDERSTANDING WHAT OUR HISTORY IS. AND SO I

WOULD GIVE YOU A EARLY INVITE; NEXT JUNETEENTH COME TO BUFFALO AND

SEE HOW WE DO IT WHEN WE CELEBRATE THE HERITAGE OF PEOPLE WHO

UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WERE ENSLAVED, BUT ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ARE

NOW FREE. SO I INVITE YOU TO COME, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH TO THE

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SPONSOR FOR INTRODUCING THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION -- RESOLUTION.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. MEEKS ON THE

RESOLUTION.

MR. MEEKS: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I WANT

TO SAY THANK YOU TO -- TO MY COLLEAGUE FOR INTRODUCING THIS RESOLUTION.

JUNETEENTH IS A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT DAY TO CELEBRATE,

AND I LOOK FORWARD TO CELEBRATING IN THE ROCHESTER COMMUNITY THIS

THURSDAY AS WELL, AS MANY OF US CELEBRATED THIS PAST SATURDAY. BUT I

IMPLORE EACH OF YOU TO TAKE TIME TO GO TO YOUR LOCAL LIBRARIES. I KNOW

WE -- WE ADVOCATE FOR A NUMBER OF RESOURCES TO GO INTO OUR

COMMUNITIES, AND IN PARTICULAR TO OUR LIBRARIES TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE

EDUCATING OUR COMMUNITY. I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO A LIBRARY IN

MY DISTRICT WHICH WAS ONE OF THE FIRST LIBRARIES IN MY DISTRICT NAMED

AFTER A HISTORICAL ANCESTOR, PHILLIS WHEATLEY, WHO WAS KNOWN AS THE

FIRST PUBLISHED BLACK POET. AND LO AND BEHOLD, THERE WERE NO OUTWARD

BOOKS OR INFORMATION ON JUNETEENTH. AND THERE WAS A NUMBER OF OTHER

THINGS BEING CELEBRATED. AND I POSED THE QUESTION, WE'RE ABOUT

CELEBRATING OUR DIVERSITY, OUR COMMUNITIES AS A WHOLE. AND, YOU

KNOW, FOUND THE JUNETEENTH BOOKS AND TOOK IT UPON MYSELF TO MAKE A

DISPLAY IN THAT MOMENT, FOLLOWING READING THOSE JUNETEENTH BOOKS TO

MY GRANDBABIES. BUT I IMPLORE EACH OF YOU TO GO TO YOUR LIBRARIES AND

MAKE SURE THAT JUNETEENTH IS RECOGNIZED AND BEING SHARED THROUGHOUT

OUR COMMUNITIES, BECAUSE WE MUST BE INTENTIONAL IN CELEBRATING US

AND CELEBRATING THE HISTORY OF OUR NATION.

THANK YOU.

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ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

ON THE RESOLUTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF RESOLUTIONS BEFORE THE HOUSE.

WITHOUT OBJECTION THESE RESOLUTIONS WILL BE TAKEN UP TOGETHER.

ON THE RESOLUTIONS, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING

AYE; OPPOSED, NO. THE RESOLUTIONS ARE ADOPTED.

(WHEREUPON, ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION NOS. 812-819

WERE UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED.)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: I NOW MOVE THAT THE

ASSEMBLY STAND ADJOURNED AND THAT WE RECONVENE AT 10:00 A.M.,

TUESDAY, JUNE THE 17TH, TOMORROW BEING A SESSION DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: 10:00 A.M.

TOMORROW. ON MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES' MOTION, THE HOUSE STANDS

ADJOURNED.

(WHEREUPON, AT 11:55 P.M., THE HOUSE STOOD

ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY, JUNE 17TH AT 10:00 A.M., THAT BEING A SESSION

DAY.)

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