THURSDAY, JUNE 5, 2025 11:13 A.M.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE HOUSE WILL

COME TO ORDER.

GOOD -- STILL MORNING. GOOD MORNING, COLLEAGUES.

THE REVEREND KENT MCHEARD WILL OFFER A PRAYER.

REVEREND MCHEARD: SHALL WE PRAY. GOOD AND

GRACIOUS GOD, THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO GATHER IN THIS CHAMBER

WITH THESE REPRESENTATIVES. THANK YOU FOR THEIR SERVICE TO THE PEOPLE

OF NEW YORK. WE PRAY THAT YOU ENABLE WISDOM UPON EACH ONE AS

THEY BECOME THE VOICE FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NO VOICE, BECOME STRENGTH

FOR THOSE WHO ARE WEAKENED, TO ADVOCATE FOR THE DISABLED AND THE

DISADVANTAGED AND THE FOOD DISADVANTAGED. FATHER, WE THANK YOU ALSO

FOR THE STAFF THAT DO WORK BEHIND THE SCENE. A SPECIAL THANK YOU TO

ANTHONY WHO MET ME IN THE CONCOURSE AND GUIDED ME HERE. BLESS THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

WORK THAT IS TO BE DONE HERE. GIVE STRENGTH, WISDOM, AND DIRECTION,

WE PRAY IN YOUR MOST HOLY NAME. AMEN.

MEMBERS: AMEN.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: VISITORS ARE INVITED

TO JOIN THE MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

(WHEREUPON, ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER LED VISITORS AND

MEMBERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.)

A QUORUM BEING PRESENT, THE CLERK WILL READ THE

JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY, JUNE 5TH.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, I MOVE

TO DISPENSE WITH THE FURTHER READING OF THE JOURNAL OF WEDNESDAY, JUNE

THE 5TH, AND THAT THE SAME STAND APPROVED.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WITHOUT OBJECTION,

SO ORDERED.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GOOD MORNING, COLLEAGUES AND GUESTS THAT ARE IN THE CHAMBERS. THIS

IS A GREAT DAY TO BE ON THIS SIDE. THE SUN IS SHINING AND PRETTY MUCH

ALL IS RIGHT WITH THE WORLD. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE THIS QUOTE WITH

YOU TODAY. THIS ONE IS COMING FROM MATSHONA DHLIWAYO. SHE IS A

CANADIAN-BASED PHILOSOPHER, ENTREPRENEUR AND AN AUTHOR OF MANY

BOOKS SUCH AS THE LITTLE BOOK OF INSPIRATION. HER WORDS FOR US TODAY:

"KNOWLEDGE IS THE SEED, INTELLIGENCE IS THE STEM, UNDERSTANDING IS THE

BRANCH AND WISDOM IS THE FRUIT." AGAIN, THESE WORDS COMING FROM

MATSHONA DHLIWAYO.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MADAM SPEAKER, COLLEAGUES HAVE ON THEIR DESK A

CALENDAR -- A MAIN CALENDAR AND A DEBATE LIST. BEFORE ANY

HOUSEKEEPING OR INTRODUCTIONS, WE'LL BE CALLING FOR THE FOLLOWING

COMMITTEES TO MEET: CITIES, FOLLOWED BY GOVERNMENTAL EMPLOYEES,

FOLLOWED BY GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, REAL

PROPERTY, AND CODES. I WOULD WANT TO ENCOURAGE MEMBERS WHO KNOW

THAT YOU SERVE ON THESE COMMITTEES TO BE IN AND AROUND THE CHAMBERS

TODAY, SO THAT WHEN THEY'RE CALLED, WE'RE NOT WAITING FOR YOU TO BEGIN

THE PROCEEDINGS THERE. WE'RE GONNA BEGIN OUR FLOOR WORK TODAY BY

TAKING UP THE FOLLOWING BILLS ON DEBATE: CALENDAR NO. 100 BY MR.

BURDICK, RULES REPORT NO. 256 BY MS. ROSENTHAL, RULES REPORT NO.

297 BY MR. BRAUNSTEIN, RULES REPORT NO. 301 BY MR. MCDONALD,

RULES REPORT NO. 308 BY MS. REYES, RULES REPORT NO. 313 BY MS.

GLICK AND RULES REPORT NO. 324 BY MR. JACOBSON. MAJORITY MEMBERS

SHOULD BE AWARE THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A NEED FOR A CONFERENCE TODAY

ONCE WE CONCLUDE OUR FLOOR WORK. OF COURSE, MADAM SPEAKER, WE

WILL CHECK WITH OUR COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE TO

DETERMINE THEIR NEEDS AS ALWAYS. THAT'S THE GENERAL OUTLINE OF WHERE

WE'RE GOING TODAY. SO, IF YOU COULD BEGIN BY CALLING THE CITIES

COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

CITIES COMMITTEE MEMBERS TO THE SPEAKER'S

CONFERENCE ROOM. PLEASE SEE CHAIR BURKE IN THE SPEAKER'S

CONFERENCE ROOM, CITIES COMMITTEE.

WE HAVE NO HOUSEKEEPING THIS MORNING, BUT SEVERAL

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

INTRODUCTIONS. WE WILL START WITH MR. SANTABARBARA FOR THE PURPOSES OF

AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. SANTABARBARA: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER.

I RISE TODAY IN RECOGNITION OF REVEREND

KENT MCHEARD. HE'S FROM THE CITY OF AMSTERDAM IN MY ASSEMBLY

DISTRICT AND HE IS JOINING US TODAY TO OFFER THE OPENING PRAYER, AS HE

JUST DELIVERED JUST A FEW MOMENTS AGO. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE,

REVEREND MCHEARD. A FITTING HONOR FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS DEDICATED

HIS LIFE TO FAITH, SERVICE AND COMMUNITY.

FOR MORE THAN 20 YEARS, REVEREND MCHEARD HAS LEAD

THE WOESTINA REFORMED CHURCH IN ROTTERDAM JUNCTION GUIDING HIS

CONGREGATION WITH COMPASSION, HUMILITY AND DEVOTION. AND HE HAS

BEEN A SOURCE OF COMFORT FOR SOME OF OUR MOST DIFFICULT TIMES. MOST

NOTABLY ORGANIZING A PRAYER VIGIL AFTER THE SCHOHARIE LIMOUSINE TRAGEDY

TO HELP BRING HEALING AND UNITY TO OUR COMMUNITY. HE CURRENTLY SERVES

AS PRESIDENT OF THE GREATER AMSTERDAM SCHOOL BOARD AND HAS SERVED

AS CHAPLAIN TO A NUMBER OF VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND HE'S BEEN

ACTIVE WITH BOY SCOUT TROOP 48 AND COUNTLESS COMMUNITY BOARDS AND

COMMITTEES.

REVERED MCHEARD IS A DEAR FRIEND AND HE'S ALWAYS

BEEN AVAILABLE TO ATTEND THE MANY EVENTS THROUGHOUT MY ASSEMBLY

DISTRICT AND CEREMONIES THAT I'VE HOSTED, OFFERING THE INVOCATION AND --

AND OFFERING PRAYER TO US IN OUR COMMUNITY. MOST RECENTLY, WE JUST

MET EACH OTHER OUT AT THE WOESTINA CEMETERY TO PLACE FLAGS FOR OUR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

VETERANS ON MEMORIAL DAY AND HE WAS THERE, OF COURSE, TO -- TO BLESS

THE FLAGS AND ALSO TO LEND A HAND AS WELL. HE'S ALSO A PROUD HUSBAND TO

HIS WIFE COLLEEN AND TWO SONS, GARRET AND PARKER. HE IS A SCHOLAR OF

FAITH WITH DEGREES FROM WORD OF LIFE BIBLE COLLEGE, LIBERTY

UNIVERSITY AND MASTER OF DIVINITY FROM NEW BRUNSWICK SEMINARY.

I'M GRATEFUL TO HAVE HIM HERE IN THE CHAMBER WITH US.

MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE WELCOME HIM TO

THE HOUSE AND EXTEND TO HIM ALL THE CORDIALITIES OF THE CHAMBER.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF

MR. SANTABARBARA, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, SIR,

TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO

YOU. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR YOUR COMFORTING WORDS THIS MORNING

AND ALSO THE GREAT WORKS YOU ARE DOING IN OUR COMMUNITY. HOPE YOU

ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US,

SIR.

(APPLAUSE)

REVEREND MCHEARD: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

(APPLAUSE)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. BUTTENSCHON

FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. BUTTENSCHON: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER.

I HAVE THE GREAT HONOR TO INTRODUCE THE BELLICK

(PHONETIC) FAMILY FROM UTICA, NEW YORK. ANESSA (PHONETIC) AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

SANAD (PHONETIC), MOM AND DAD, AND THEIR SONS, ADAM, EMIL

(PHONETIC) AND BENJAMIN. THEY'RE HERE TODAY TO SEE THE WORKINGS

WITHIN ALBANY, AS WELL AS TO SPEND SOME TIME THROUGHOUT THE

COMMUNITY. EACH ONE OF THESE YOUNG MEN ARE NOT ONLY ACADEMICALLY

SOUND, BUT ARE ATHLETES WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AND SPEND QUITE A BIT OF

TIME AT MANY EVENTS. AND BENJAMIN IS ONE THAT YOU WILL FIND AT MOST

OF OUR EVENTS AS HE SUPPORTS SO MANY THAT ARE WITHIN THE WORKING CLASS.

SO PLEASE, IF YOU COULD INTRODUCE AND WELCOME THEM

TO CHAMBERS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF

MS. BUTTENSCHON, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU THIS

MORNING TO OUR ASSEMBLY CHAMBER AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE

FLOOR TO YOU. AND HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY. IT'S ALWAYS

WONDERFUL TO SEE A WHOLE FAMILY COME TOGETHER TO PARTICIPATE IN CIVIC

ENGAGEMENT. SO THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. DURSO FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

SO TODAY I GET THE DISTINCT HONOR AND PRIVILEGE OF

INTRODUCING A GOOD FRIEND, A CONSTITUENT AND A FORMER MEMBER, MARC

HERBST IS JOINING ME TODAY. MARC SERVED FROM 1994 TO 2002 FOR

DISTRICT 14. HE'S UP HERE TODAY VISITING US AND SOME MEMBERS FROM

LONG ISLAND.

SO, MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU WOULD BE SO KIND TO OFFER

HIM ALL THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR AND WELCOME HIM BACK TO ALBANY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF

MR. DURSO, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WELCOME BACK,

ASSEMBLYMEMBER. WE WELCOME YOU TO THE CHAMBER AND EXTEND THE

PRIVILEGES TO YOU. IT'S WONDERFUL TO HAVE YOU BACK IN OUR CHAMBER.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. ANDERSON FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. ANDERSON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

I RISE TO MAKE A BRIEF INTRODUCTION THIS MORNING ON

BEHALF OF A CIVIC ORGANIZATION FROM THE 31ST ASSEMBLY DISTRICT. OUR

FRIENDS FROM THE 149TH STREET SOUTH OZONE PARK CIVIC ASSOCIATION ARE

CELEBRATING 50 YEARS THIS YEAR, MADAM SPEAKER. FIFTY YEARS OF

ADVOCACY, COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND REPRESENTATION FOR THE

NEIGHBORHOOD OF SOUTH OZONE PARK. CURRENTLY THE GROUP IS LED BY

MISS ARACELIA COOK WHO IS UP HERE WITH US TODAY, ALONG WITH HER

VARIOUS BOARD MEMBERS AND GENERAL MEMBERS. THEY ARE DEDICATED TO

PRESERVING AND ENHANCING THE BEAUTY AND RICH HISTORY OF SOUTH OZONE

PARK. THEIR EFFORTS ALSO INCLUDE WORKING CLOSELY WITH RESIDENTS,

COMMUNITY GROUPS, ELECTED OFFICIALS SUCH AS MYSELF AND CITY AND STATE

AGENCIES TO ENSURE THE COMMUNITY STAYS INFORMED ON IMPORTANT LOCAL

ISSUES. MADAM SPEAKER, THEY HAVE CONSISTENTLY SUPPORTED AND

CELEBRATED THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S DIVERSITY THROUGH THE YEARS, FOSTERING AN

INCLUSIVE ENVIRONMENT AND ENCOURAGING EVERYONE TO GET INVOLVED.

AND IF YOU KNOW MS. COOK, SHE'S A WOMAN FROM THE BLOCK AND SHE

ALWAYS WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE GETTING INVOLVED AND YOU KNOW

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

YOUR BEST, SO THAT YOU CAN DO YOUR BEST AS A NEIGHBORHOOD.

MADAM SPEAKER, REACHING 50 YEARS IS NO SMALL FEAT

AND I WANT TO GIVE A HEARTFELT THANKS TO THIS CIVIC ASSOCIATION FOR TAKING

THIS OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL WITH -- TRAVEL TO ALBANY TO VISIT THE STATE'S

CAPITOL, MANY FOR THEIR FIRST TIME, BUT ALSO TO CELEBRATE THIS 50 YEARS OF

ADVOCACY.

MADAM SPEAKER, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE AFFORD

THESE MEMBERS OF THE SOUTH OZONE PARK COMMUNITY THE CORDIALITIES OF

THE FLOOR OF THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF

MR. ANDERSON, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU TO THE

ASSEMBLY CHAMBER, ESTEEMED GROUP THE 149TH STREET SOUTH OZONE

PARK CIVIC ASSOCIATION. CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU FOR 50 YEARS. IT'S QUITE

AN ACCOMPLISHMENT. WE EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO YOU AND

HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR

JOINING US.

(APPLAUSE)

MS. LEVENBERG FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. LEVENBERG: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

I RISE TO INTRODUCE THREE WONDERFUL, YOUNG PEOPLE

FROM THE 95TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT, ALEC ELKIN, SADIE SPAGNOLI AND

DAHLIA BECK. THEY ARE -- EACH OF THEM GOES TO A DIFFERENT HIGH SCHOOL.

THEY ARE SENIORS AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE HEADING OFF TO COLLEGE IN THE

FALL. ALEC IS A SENIOR AT HENDRICK HUDSON HIGH SCHOOL, CLASS OF 2025

AND HE WILL BE GOING TO SUNY ALBANY IN THE FALL. SADIE IS CROTON ON

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

HUDSON [SIC] -- OR CROTON-HARMON HIGH SCHOOL, CLASS OF 2025 AND SHE

WILL BE GOING TO UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN IN THE FALL. AND DAHLIA

BECK IS A HALDANE HIGH SCHOOL, CLASS OF 2025 SENIOR AND SHE WILL BE

ATTENDING UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IN THE FALL. WE ARE GOING

TO MISS THEM GREATLY, AS THEY HAVE ALSO DONE A LITTLE VOLUNTEER WORK IN

MY OFFICE AND I COULDN'T BE MORE GRATEFUL FOR ALL OF THEIR HARD WORK.

AND I KNOW THAT NOT HAVING LISTED THEIR ENTIRE R�SUM�S, THAT THEY'VE

HAD MANY ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THEIR YOUNG LIVES AND I KNOW THAT THEY

WILL HAVE MANY MORE.

SO, PLEASE, MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU COULD OFFER THEM

ALL OF THE CORDIALITIES OF THE FLOOR, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

ON BEHALF OF MS. LEVENBERG, THE SPEAKER AND ALL

MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER AND EXTEND

CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU FOR YOUR ACADEMIC CAREER IN HIGH SCHOOL AND FOR

YOUR CONTINUED ACADEMIC SUCCESS. SOME OF YOU ARE STAYING, SOME OF

YOU ARE GOING VERY FAR AWAY, BUT WE DEFINITELY WISH YOU WELL WISHES.

WE HOPE YOU ENJOY OUR PROCEEDINGS TODAY AND THANK YOU SO VERY

MUCH FOR JOINING US. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. LASHER FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. LASHER: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

I RISE TODAY TO WELCOME MY SON, BENJAMIN LASHER,

WHO IS A 13-YEAR-OLD 7TH GRADER AT BOOKER T. WASHINGTON MIDDLE

SCHOOL, MS-54, IN THE 69TH ASSEMBLY DISTRICT. AND BEN -- I HAVE -- I

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

HAVE REALLY BEEN PROUD TO WATCH BEN GET VERY INVOLVED IN MODEL

UNITED NATIONS THIS YEAR AND TAKE A REAL INTEREST BOTH IN THE AFFAIRS OF

THE WORLD AROUND HIM AND IN THE PROCESS OF DELIBERATION AND DEBATE

AND LEGISLATION. AND SO, I'M EXCITED FOR HIM TO BE HERE TODAY AND

TOMORROW TO SEE THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS FIRSTHAND AND ALSO TO -- TO KEEP

ME COMPANY IN THESE -- IN THESE WANING DAYS OF THE SESSION.

SO, I WOULD BE GRATEFUL IF YOU WOULD WELCOME HIM

AND EXTEND TO HIM THE CORDIALITIES OF THE CHAMBER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF

MR. LASHER, THE SPEAKER AND ALL THE MEMBERS, WELCOME, BENJAMIN, TO

THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER. WE ARE EXTENDING PRIVILEGES TO YOU. ONE OF

THEM MAY BE UNLIMITED SNACKS IN THE MEMBERS' LOUNGE, BUT WE DO

REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST IN CIVIS AND CONTINUATION OF ADVOCACY

FOR THINGS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO YOU. SO, CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU

ACADEMICALLY. WE HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR TIME HERE TODAY HANGING OUT

WITH YOUR DAD. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN

INTRODUCTION.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE AN INTRODUCTION. WE HAVE BEEN

JOINED IN OUR CHAMBERS BY THE HANDSOMEST YOUNG MAN IN HERE. HIS

NAME HAPPENS TO BE JACK KNIGHT AND HE'S ALMOST FOUR.

SO, IF YOU WILL PLEASE WELCOME, DEAR STAFF SON HERE,

JACK KNIGHT. HE HAS JOINED US THERE, HE'S WITH HIS DADDY. HE'S A LITTLE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

SHY THIS MORNING. HE WASN'T THIS SHY LAST YEAR, BUT IT'LL CHANGE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF MRS.

PEOPLES-STOKES, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, IT'S ALWAYS WONDERFUL TO

SEE FAMILY MEMBERS. HI, JACK. WE HOPE YOU HAVE AN AWESOME TIME

HERE WITH US TODAY. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

WE'RE GOING TO START DEBATES.

COLLEAGUES, IF WE COULD TAKE OUR SEATS AND HAVE QUIET.

THANK YOU.

(PAUSE)

MS. CRUZ FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

I'M HERE JOINED TODAY BY MR. MAC PHIPPS. HE'S HERE

TO TALK TO OUR COLLEAGUES ABOUT HIS REMARKABLE STORY. MAC IS A

LEGENDARY NEW ORLEANS RAPPER WHO ROSE TO FAME IN THE LATE 1990S AFTER

SIGNING WITH THE ICONIC NO LIMIT RECORDS AND COLLABORATING WITH

ARTISTS LIKE SNOOP DOG. HE WAS BORN INTO A FAMILY OF ARTISTS. MAC

BEGAN WRITING MUSIC AT AN EARLY AGE AND WAS CELEBRATED FOR HIS LYRICAL

DEPTH AND AUTHENTICITY. IN THE 2000S, HIS CAREER WAS TRAGICALLY DERAILED

WHEN HE WAS WRONGFULLY CONVICTED OF A CRIME HE DID NOT COMMIT;

DESPITE HAVING NO CRIMINAL RECORD, NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TYING HIM TO

THE SCENE AND NO CREDIBLE WITNESSES. IN A STUNNING UNDERMINING,

MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE, PROSECUTORS TWISTED HIS LYRICS, ALTERING PRONOUNS

AND SLICING LINES AND TAKING SOME LYRICS THAT WERE AS OLD AS FOUR YEARS

PRIOR TO THE CRIME TO PORTRAY HIS ART AS A CONFESSION, WHILE THE MEN WHO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

CONFESSED TO THE CRIME WAS TURNED AWAY BY THE POLICE. MAC SPENT 21

YEARS BEHIND BARS BUT NEVER LOST HIS COMMITMENT TO HEALING AND

MENTORSHIP, EARNING THE HUMANITARIAN AWARD, GUIDING YOUNG MEN AND

ADVOCATING FOR JUSTICE FROM WITHIN PRISON WALLS.

IN 2021, HE WAS GRANTED CLEMENCY BY THE LOUISIANA

PAROLE BOARD AND GOVERNOR JOHN BEL EDWARDS, WHO UNANIMOUSLY

RECOGNIZED THE INJUSTICE IN HIS CASE. SINCE RETURNING HOME, MAC

DEDICATED HIS LIVE TO UPLIFTING OTHERS, MENTORING AT RISK YOUTH,

TEACHING MUSIC AND FIGHTING FOR FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS FOR ARTISTS.

HIS ALBUM, SON OF THE CITY, IS BOTH POWERFUL AND A TESTAMENT TO HIS

JOURNEY AND THE MESSAGE OF RESILIENCE. MAC'S STORY IS NOT ONLY ONE OF

INJUSTICE, IT IS ONE OF TRANSFORMATION, STRENGTH AND POWER AND THE

POWER OF USING HIS VOICE. HE'S JOINED WITH US -- HE'S JOINED -- HE'S

JOINING US TODAY WITH HIS WIFE.

SO, MADAM SPEAKER, PLEASE HELP ME WELCOME HIM

AND HIS WIFE TO OUR HOUSE AND EXTEND THE CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF

MS. CRUZ, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU, MR. PHIPPS,

TO THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR TO

YOU. WE APPRECIATE YOU SHARING YOUR STORY WITH US AND DO HOPE FOR

THE BEST FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY IN THE FUTURE. THANK YOU FOR JOINING

US TODAY. THANK YOU.

(APPLAUSE)

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

YOU PLEASE CALL THE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES COMMITTEE TO THE

SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: GOVERNMENT

EMPLOYEES TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. GOVERNMENT

EMPLOYEE COMMITTEE MEMBERS TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

PAGE 24, CALENDAR NO. 100, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A04725-B, CALENDAR

100, BURDICK, SCHIAVONI, SIMONE, EPSTEIN, OTIS, ROSENTHAL,

LEVENBERG, LUNSFORD, SANTABARBARA. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING THE USE OF

DRILLING FLUIDS, BRINE AND FLOWBACK WATER FROM GAS OR OIL WELLS, POOLS,

OR FIELDS ON ANY HIGHWAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. BURDICK.

MR. BURDICK: CERTAINLY.

THIS BILL WOULD AMEND SECTION 23-0305 OF THE

ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW TO REQUIRE THE DEPARTMENT OF

ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION TO PROHIBIT THE USE OF OIL AND GAS DRILLING

FLUIDS, BRINE AND FLOWBACK WATER, ON ANY HIGHWAY FOR ANY PURPOSE,

INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO DEICING AND DUST SUPPRESSION.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. SIMPSON.

MR. SIMPSON: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE BILL SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

YIELD?

MR. BURDICK: OF COURSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. SIMPSON: THANK YOU, MR. BURDICK.

SO, WHAT HAS CHANGED FROM PRIOR VERSIONS OF THIS BILL

WITH THE MOST RECENT ONE BEING VETOED BY THE GOVERNOR?

MR. BURDICK: SO, GREAT QUESTION.

THIS IS A DIFFERENT AND MORE FOCUSED BILL. THAT EARLIER

LEGISLATION WAS BROADER AND COULD HAVE INTERPRETED TO AFFECT OTHER

SECTORS LIKE SOLUTION MINING. AND IN RESPONSE TO CONCERNS RAISED AT

THAT TIME AND SUBSEQUENTLY WE'VE TIGHTENED THE LANGUAGE.

MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. SO, YOU MENTIONED "SOLUTION

MINING." THAT'S A NATURAL OCCURRING WELLS THAT CONTAIN SALINE OR SALT,

CORRECT?

MR. BURDICK: SO SOLUTION MINING ARE ONE OF THE

AREAS THAT WOULD NOT BE PROHIBITED UNDER THIS BILL.

MR. SIMPSON: RIGHT. BUT I -- MY QUESTION WAS,

THAT'S A NATURALLY OCCURRING WELL AND THOSE FLUIDS ARE OKAY. THEY'RE NOT

GONNA BE --

(CROSS-TALK)

MR. BURDICK: CORRECT. NATURALLY OCCURRING WELLS

ARE -- ARE NOT PART OF THE PROPOSED REGULATION HERE.

MR. SIMPSON: THEY'RE A SOURCE OF BRINE. SOLUTION

WELLS ARE A SOURCE OF BRINE, IF I'M CORRECT. DO YOU AGREE?

MR. BURDICK: I DO AGREE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. SIMPSON: SO YOUR LEGISLATION SAYS, PROHIBITS

THE USE OF DRILLING FLUIDS, BRINE AND FLOWBACK WATER. DRILLING FLUIDS,

FLOWBACK WATER FROM GAS AND OIL WELLS ARE ALREADY PROHIBITED IN NEW

YORK STATE. WE BANNED FRACKING WELLS IN 2015. SO I'M TRYING TO

DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TERM "BRINE" AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT WELLS THAT

PRODUCE BRINE ARE -- ARE EXEMPT?

MR. BURDICK: CORRECT. BECAUSE THIS IS ONLY

DEALING WITH FRACKING WASTEWATER FROM OIL AND GAS WELLS. AND YOU'RE

CORRECT ABOUT PROHIBITIONS. HOWEVER, THIS FRACKING WASTEWATER ARE

PRODUCED BY SUPPLIERS FROM WHO -- ARE FROM OUT-OF-STATE. AND -- AND

SO THAT'S WHAT THIS IS GETTING AT.

MR. SIMPSON: WELL, THANK YOU, BECAUSE YOU'RE

GOING RIGHT DOWN THE LINE WHERE I WANTED TO GO.

SO THOSE PRODUCTS THAT ARE BEING DEVELOPED

OUT-OF-STATE AND BROUGHT INTO NEW YORK STATE ARE REGULATED BY DEC

CURRENTLY AND PERMITTED IF THEY MEET DEC REGS.

MR. BURDICK: IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT -- ARE YOU

REFERRING TO THE BENEFICIAL USE PERMITTING PROGRAM [SIC]?

MR. SIMPSON: THE -- EXCUSE ME? I DIDN'T...

MR. BURDICK: BENEFICIAL USE, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE

REFERRING TO?

MR. SIMPSON: NO. I'M -- I'M ASKING -- YOU

MENTIONED THAT SINCE THESE FLUIDS ARE ALREADY BANNED IN NEW YORK

STATE, THEY'RE BEING PRODUCED IN OTHER STATES AND BROUGHT INTO NEW

YORK STATE AND USED ON, I PRESUME, USED IN NEW YORK STATE. IF THAT'S

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

THE CASE, THEY'RE REGULATED AND PERMITTED BY DEC CURRENTLY.

MR. BURDICK: SO, YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT I

THINK NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED IS THE EXTENT TO WHICH THAT OCCURS. AND, YOU

KNOW, WE'VE HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT. AND IT'S NOT EXACTLY

AIRTIGHT, FAR FROM IT. YOU KNOW, THEIR PROCESS, FOR EXAMPLE, DOES NOT

TEST FOR RADIUM. AND, YOU KNOW, THE CONCERN THAT WE HAVE IS THAT WE

HAVE, REALLY, A LOOPHOLE HERE. AND THAT LOOPHOLE NEEDS TO BE CLOSED,

AND THAT'S THE INTENTION OF -- OF THIS LEGISLATION.

YOU KNOW, HIGH-VOLUME FRACKING FLUID PRODUCTS ARE

BANNED, BUT THIS APPLIES TO ANY FLUIDS RESULTING FROM GAS AND OIL WELLS.

AND SO, THAT'S THE REGULATORY GAP THAT WE INTEND TO ADDRESS WITH THIS

LEGISLATION.

MR. SIMPSON: LET ME REPHRASE MY QUESTION. ARE

THERE FLUIDS COMING FROM OTHER STATES FROM OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK?

BECAUSE CURRENTLY, THERE ARE NO FLUIDS THAT WE CAN USE IN NEW YORK

STATE EXPECT FOR SOLUTION MINE -- BRINE.

(PAUSE/CONFERENCING)

MR. BURDICK: YEAH, SO THE ANSWER IS YES. THERE

ARE FLUIDS THAT COME FROM OUT-OF-STATE, BUT ALSO, FLUIDS CAN BE PRODUCED

DOMESTICALLY HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.

MR. SIMPSON: FLUIDS FROM WHERE? FRACKING

MINES? FRACKING WELLS?

MR. BURDICK: SO, YOU CAN HAVE FLUIDS THAT CAN BE,

YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, BEET JUICE IS SOMETHING THAT -- THAT IS DONE

HERE IN NEW YORK STATE AND IS PERMISSIBLE AND IN FACT WOULD NOT BE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

AFFECTED. AND IN FACT, WE WOULD ENCOURAGE THAT AS A GOOD ALTERNATIVE

TO THESE -- THESE FLUIDS THAT ARE PUT ON THE ROADS AND -- AND REALLY ARE

PRESENTING SIGNIFICANT HEALTH HAZARDS. THE PURPOSE OF THIS BILL IS REALLY

TO HAVE THE TOOLS TO TRY TO PROHIBIT THESE PRACTICES WHERE THESE TOXIC

WASTEWATERS ARE CONTAINING CARCINOGENIC AND RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS, IN

MANY INSTANCES, AND THEY'RE PUTTING IT ON ROADS FOR DEICING OR FOR

SUPPRESSING DUST IN THE SUMMER. AND THIS IS TO STOP THAT PRACTICE AND

FRANKLY, IT'S -- IT'S REALLY A HEALTH MATTER AS MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE.

MR. SIMPSON: CAN YOU CITE AN EXAMPLE OF A

CURRENT SITUATION WHERE ONE OF THESE FLUIDS THAT YOU WANT TO BAN,

PROHIBIT, OF BEING APPLIED IN NEW YORK AND USED IN NEW YORK RIGHT

NOW? THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO ESTABLISH. I'VE -- DEC CONTROLS,

REGULATES WHATEVER IS APPLIED TO OUR STATE HIGHWAYS, THE USE OF FLUIDS.

AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT NATURAL OCCURRING, YOU KNOW, ELEMENTS SUCH

AS, YOU SAID URANIUM MAYBE OR --

MR. BURDICK: URANIUM -- URANIUM AS WELL.

MR. SIMPSON: MATTER OF FACT, JUST FOR INFORMATION,

IT'S IN, YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPLE'S DRILLED WATER WELLS. IT'S NATURAL

OCCURRING URANIUM, DECAYING URANIUM. RADON. BUT, ASIDE FROM THAT,

IS THERE -- I'M TRYING TO GET AT THE -- THE ISSUE OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO

BAN. WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHY WE WOULD DO SOMETHING THAT WOULD

PROHIBIT SAFE FLUIDS -- FLUIDS THAT ARE TESTED, REGULATED BY DEC FROM

COMING OUT OF NEW YORK STATE -- FROM SOURCES OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK

STATE, BEING USED ECONOMICALLY IN NEW YORK?

MR. BURDICK: YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT WE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

NEED TO MAKE THIS TOO COMPLICATED BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY A VERY SIMPLE

BILL, ALL OF ONE SENTENCE.

(CROSS-TALK)

AGAIN, I NEED TO EMPHASIZE THAT THIS IS LIMITED TO THE

FRACKING WASTEWATER THROUGH THE PRODUCTION WITH OIL AND NATURAL GAS

WELLS. THAT -- THAT'S WHAT IT'S LIMITED TO AND I THINK YOU'RE EXPANDING

THE DISCUSSION TO BEYOND THAT. AND THIS IS WHAT IT -- THIS IS WHAT IT

INTENDS TO LIMIT.

MR. SIMPSON: WELL, I -- I DO HAVE CONCERNS. IT

SAYS BRINE. AND BRINE, YOU KNOW, AND THEN YOU TALK ABOUT FLUIDS, OR

CHEMICALS, OR MATERIALS THAT ARE COMING FROM OUT OF NEW YORK STATE,

SINCE THEY ARE BANNED HERE ALREADY. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM

IS, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS. IS THIS A FEAR BILL? IS THIS A BEER -- A

BILL THAT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE A POSITIVE IMPACT? IS IT CURRENT -- ARE

WE PUTTING HARMFUL CHEMICALS ON OUR ROADS RIGHT NOW THAT ARE

APPROVED BY DEC?

MR. BURDICK: WELL, YOU GOT THREE OR FOUR

QUESTIONS, SO I'LL TRY TO TAKE EACH OF THEM IN ORDER.

MR. SIMPSON: TRY TO NARROW IT DOWN.

(LAUGHTER/CROSS-TALK)

MR. BURDICK: I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT.

SO AGAIN, IT'S BRINE FROM OIL AND GAS WELLS. AND I --

YOU KNOW, LOOK. I -- I THINK THE HEART OF YOUR QUESTION GOES TO, WHY

ARE WE DOING THIS? AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DOING THIS BECAUSE WHAT

HAPPENS WITH THIS FRACKING WASTEWATER IS THAT IT'S APPLIED TO THE ROADS,

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

BUT WITH RUNOFF, IT'S GONNA TO GO INTO THE SOIL, IT'S GONNA TO GO INTO THE

SURFACE WATER, IT'S GONNA GO INTO THE GROUNDWATER, IT'S GONNA GO INTO

OUR RESERVOIRS AND THEY CONTAIN THESE VERY HARMFUL, TOXIC SUBSTANCES:

ARSINIC, BARIUM, LEAD, HEAVY METALS. THEY'RE EVEN, YOU KNOW, AS -- AS

THE FLUID RETURNS TO THE SURFACE, IT CAN PICK UP THOSE HEAVY METALS AND

THEY CAN GET INTO OUR DRINKING WATER. AND THAT'S THE CONCERN HERE AND

WE FEEL THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC HEALTH.

MR. SIMPSON: SO, ONE MORE TIME. I'M GONNA ASK IT

EVEN SHORTER AND MORE SIMPLER. ARE WE CURRENTLY PUTTING THAT TYPE OF

MATERIAL ON THE ROADS IN NEW YORK?

MR. BURDICK: YES, WE ARE.

MR. SIMPSON: DEC IS ALLOWING THAT? BECAUSE

THEY PERMIT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE A PERMIT.

MR. BURDICK: IT'S NOT THE PERMIT OF ENVIRONMENTAL

PROTECTION. IT'S THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION THAT

ISSUES THOSE BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATIONS. AND, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE

PROBLEM IS THAT, YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS A NOT TO -- TO BELITTLE OR DENIGRATE

THE WORK THAT DEC DOES, BUT THEY DON'T TEST FOR EVERYTHING. AND -- AND

THE PROBLEM IS THAT SOME OF THESE DO CONTAIN, YOU KNOW, THESE TOXIC

MATERIALS. AND SO, WE FEEL THAT THE SAFEST APPROACH IS TO -- IS TO STOP

THAT PRACTICE WHEN -- AGAIN, OIL AND GAS WELLS. IT -- WE ENCOURAGE THE

SOLUTION MINING. IN FACT, THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION HAS A PILOT

PROGRAM ON SOLUTION MINING AND THAT MAY BE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE

THINGS IN THE FUTURE THAT CAN PROVIDE A SAFE ALTERNATIVE.

MR. SIMPSON: SO THERE ISN'T A PERMIT THAT IS ISSUED,

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

IT'S A BENEFICIAL USE. IT'S NOT ACTUALLY A, YOU KNOW, A --

MR. BURDICK: IT'S A BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATION.

IT'S NOT REALLY A PERMIT, PER SE.

MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY OTHER

FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR YOU, UNLESS YOU CAN CITE A CONTAMINATION EXAMPLE

SOMEWHERE. BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ONE THING THAT I -- YOU HAVEN'T BEEN

ABLE TO PROVIDE.

MR. BURDICK: RIGHT.

MR. SIMPSON: YOU'RE SAYING IT'S HAPPENING, BUT I

-- I DON'T KNOW --

MR. BURDICK: WELL, I -- I THINK -- HE -- HERE'S THE

THING. IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ENVIRONMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS, SAID

RIVERKEEPER, THERE ARE ALSO PROPRIETARY STUDIES THAT ARE DONE THAT, YOU

KNOW, WE -- WE -- WE DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO. BUT THERE IS --

THERE'S CONSIDERABLE EVIDENCE TO INDICATE THAT IN FACT, THE CONCERNS THAT

WE HAVE OVER WHAT'S BEING APPLIED TO THE ROADS, WHAT IS GOING IN RUNOFF

AND THOSE CONCERNS ARE JUSTIFIED.

MR. SIMPSON: OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. BURDICK.

MS. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MR. SIMPSON.

MR. SIMPSON: ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES

-- ON THE BILL.

MR. SIMPSON: I'D LIKE TO GO ON THE BILL. THANK

YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

YOU KNOW, WE JUST HEARD THIS DEBATE AND MY FEELING

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

IS THAT OUR EFFORTS SHOULD BE ENCOURAGING DEC TO TEST WHATEVER FLUIDS

ARE BEING APPLIED TO OUR ROADS, RATHER THAN MAYBE EXPAND THE

BENEFICIAL USE PERMIT, RATHER THAN BANNING CHEMICALS THAT ARE GONNA

POTENTIALLY COST COMMUNITIES MORE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN LOOKING FOR

DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES. I THINK THAT THIS IS MORE OF A SUSPECTED IMPACT --

NEGATIVE IMPACT TO THE ENVIRONMENT WITHOUT VERY MUCH DATA AND I

THINK THAT THIS BILL IS -- WHILE IT'S INTENDED TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S

HELPFUL, I THINK THE BETTER DIRECTION WOULD BE TO ENCOURAGE DEC TO TEST

WHATEVER FLUIDS, WHERE THEY COME FROM -- WHEREVER THEY COME FROM,

AS TO THEIR SAFETY TO OUR ENVIRONMENT, AND ALSO PROVIDE FOR

COST-EFFECTIVE MEASURES FOR ALL OF OUR COMMUNITIES.

SO, FOR THAT, I WILL VOTE NO AND ENCOURAGE MY

COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THAT AS WELL. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THANK YOU, MR.

SIMPSON.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, WOULD

YOU CALL THE GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S

CONFERENCE ROOM?

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THANK YOU.

GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE

ROOM. GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S

CONFERENCE ROOM.

MR. RA.

MR. RA: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

SPONSOR YIELD?

MR. BURDICK: OF COURSE.

MR. RA: SO, JUST -- THIS MAY BE SOMEWHAT REPETITIVE,

BUT JUST FOR CLARIFICATION. SO, RIGHT, WE HAVE A BAN ON FRACKING IN NEW

YORK STATE, BUT THERE ARE NON-FRACKING WELLS IN NEW YORK THAT PRODUCE

A BRINE THAT CURRENTLY CAN BE USED ON OUR ROADS AFTER THEY GO THROUGH

THIS BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATION BY THE DEC, CORRECT?

MR. BURDICK: WELL, THE -- THE BAN REALLY -- IT ONLY

PERTAINS TO HIGH VOLUME FRACKING.

MR. RA: OKAY. I'M TALKING -- I'M TALKING ABOUT

CURRENT --

MR. BURDICK: SO, IT'S NOT A COMPLETE BAN IF THAT --

IF THAT'S YOUR QUESTION. SO, THEY'RE -- AND -- AND -- AND AGAIN, THAT'S

WHAT -- WHAT WE'RE AIMED AT -- AIMING AT HERE, IS THAT THEY STILL USE

CHEMICALS AND, YOU KNOW, THOSE SOLUTIONS, THE FRACKING FLUIDS AND SUCH

ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE.

MR. RA: JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, WHEN YOU JUST SAID

"THE BAN," YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OUR BAN ON HYDRO FRACKING; THAT'S WHAT

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

MR. BURDICK: RIGHT. IN OTHER WORDS, THE -- THE

BAN ON -- ON -- ON THE FRACKING --

MR. RA: YEAH.

MR. BURDICK: -- IS LIMITED TO HIGH-VOLUME

FRACKING.

MR. RA: CORRECT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. BURDICK: I -- I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT

BECAUSE SOME MAY FEEL THAT IT'S A COMPLETE PROHIBITION ON ANY KIND OF

FRACKING.

MR. RA: NO, WE HAVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF DRILLING THAT

DOES OCCUR IN NEW YORK STATE AND IS NOT BANNED.

MR. BURDICK: RIGHT.

MR. RA: AND BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. SO, UNDER

CURRENT LAW, A BRINE THAT COMES FROM THAT TYPE OF PROCESS CAN BE USED

ON OUR ROADS AFTER GOING THROUGH THE BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATION BY

THE DEC, CURRENTLY?

MR. BURDICK: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. RA: OKAY. AND IF THIS WERE ENACTED, THEY

WOULD NO LONGER BE ABLE TO UTILIZE IT.

MR. BURDICK: FOR THOSE THAT ARE COMING FROM OIL

AND GAS WELLS, THAT -- THAT WOULD PROHIBIT THEM FROM BEING USED.

MR. RA: OKAY. NOT JUST HYDROFRACKING THAT'S

CURRENTLY BANNED, BUT ANY TYPE OF OIL AND GAS DRILLING BYPRODUCT.

MR. BURDICK: THAT IS CORRECT.

MR. RA: OKAY. THANK YOU.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: ON THE BILL.

MR. RA: SO, YOU KNOW, WE TALK A LOT IN THIS HOUSE

AND I HEAR -- I HEAR THE WORDS TALKED ABOUT VERY OFTEN THAT THERE'S THIS

IDEA THAT ON ONE SIDE OF THE AISLE WE FOLLOW SCIENCE AND IT CAN BE ON

ANYTHING. IT COULD BE ON MEDICAL SITUATIONS, IT COULD BE ON SOMETHING

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ENVIRONMENTAL. AND ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT WE IGNORE ALL THESE THINGS.

YET, ONCE AGAIN, AND WE'VE DONE THIS MANY TIMES BEFORE, WE HAVE AN

AGENCY THAT HAS AN EXPERTISE, THAT HAS TRAINED PEOPLE, THAT HAS PEOPLE

THAT HAVE SCIENTIFIC BACKGROUNDS THAT CAN LOOK AT THESE THINGS AND

UNLESS WE'RE ASSUMING THAT OUR NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF

ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION IS ALLOWING A MATERIAL TO BE USED ON OUR

ROADS THAT IS GOING TO CONTAMINATE SOIL THROUGH RUNOFF AND -- AND -- AND

EVERYTHING, IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING HERE, THEN WE HAVE A MUCH

BIGGER PROBLEM. BUT IF WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT, WHY ARE WE SUBSTITUTING

OUR JUDGMENT FOR THE JUDGMENT OF A STATE AGENCY THAT EXISTS TO PROTECT

OUR ENVIRONMENT? THIS IS A -- A MATERIAL THAT IN SOME WAYS IS A

BYPRODUCT. THIS IS A USE THAT HAS BEEN BENEFICIAL TO OUR LOCAL

HIGHWAYS. AND EVEN THOUGH WE JUST PASSED A STATE BUDGET THAT

INCREASED OUR SPENDING BY A LARGER PERCENTAGE THAN WE'VE DONE IN

PROBABLY 20 YEARS, WE BARELY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE WITH REGARD TO OUR

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, WITH REGARD TO FUNDING LOCAL INFRASTRUCTURE. AND

HERE WE ARE BASICALLY BANNING THE USE OF A SUBSTANCE THAT IS

ECONOMICAL FOR OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO TREAT OUR

ROADS.

SO, I -- I WOULD URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE AGAINST

THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. THE DEC IS -- IS ABLE TO WHEN SOMEBODY

WANTS TO USE -- A LOCAL HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT WANTS TO USE THIS BRINE,

THEY GO THROUGH A PROCESS, THE BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATION AND I DON'T

BELIEVE THAT THE DEC IS -- IS GOING TO ALLOW SOMETHING TO BE USED ON

OUR ROADS THAT IS GOING TO BE HARMFUL AND I DON'T THINK THIS LEGISLATURE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

SHOULD SUBSTITUTE OUR JUDGMENT FOR THEIRS, GIVEN THAT THEY HAVE THE

EXPERTISE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THANK YOU, MR. RA.

MR. MANKTELOW.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS, PLEASE?

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. BURDICK: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. MANKTELOW: THANK YOU, MR. BURDICK.

JUST -- JUST A COUPLE QUICK QUESTIONS. WHO'S ACTUALLY

ASKING FOR THIS TO BE DONE?

MR. BURDICK: WELL, I GUESS I'M THE SPONSOR OF THE

BILL, BUT IT'S ALSO SUPPORTED I THINK BY ENVIRONMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS AND,

YOU KNOW, OTHERS THAT BELIEVE THAT WE DO NEED TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC

HEALTH.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO YOU'RE THE SPONSOR OF THE

BILL, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT IS THERE SOME GROUP THAT HAS ACTUALLY COME

TO YOU SAYING, WILL YOU MOVE THIS BILL FORWARD?

MR. BURDICK: NO.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO THIS IS BASICALLY YOUR CALL?

MR. BURDICK: WELL, IT -- YOU KNOW, THIS IS A BILL

THAT HAS SOME PREDECESSORS, THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM THAT. AND, YOU

KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I CAN CERTAINLY LOOK INTO, AS TO WHETHER THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

SPONSORS AT THAT TIME HAD SOME ORGANIZED -- SOME ORGANIZATIONS THAT

PROVIDED MEMORANDUM OF SUPPORT AND SO FORTH. I DON'T THINK THAT WE

HAVE WITH THIS BILL EITHER MEMORANDUMS OF SUPPORT OR MEMORANDUMS

OF OBJECTION.

MR. MANKTELOW: WELL, THERE ARE A FEW.

MY SECOND QUESTION: A LITTLE WHILE AGO YOU WERE

TALKING ABOUT THE TOXIC CHEMICALS. WHAT -- WHAT WERE THEY AGAIN?

MR. BURDICK: SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S QUITE A

LAUNDRY LIST, YOU KNOW. IT'S HEAVY METALS SUCH AS ARSENIC, BARIUM AND

LEAD. WE HAVE CARCINOGENIC SUBSTANCES LIKE BENZENE, TOLUENE AND

FORMALDEHYDE. THERE ARE ALSO SOME NATURALLY OCCURRING RADIOACTIVE

MATERIALS SUCH AS RADIUM-226 AND URANIUM. AND -- AND SO, THERE ARE

QUITE A FEW. I PROBABLY HAVEN'T EXHAUSTED THE LIST.

MR. MANKTELOW: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

OFF OF -- OFF OF THAT, MR. BURDICK, ARE THERE ANY

ACCEPTABLE LEVELS OF THESE TOXICS?

MR. BURDICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING

BECAUSE SOME HAD FOUND THAT, AND I THINK THAT IT'S RADIUM IN WHICH THE

LEVELS HAD BEEN FOUND TO BE EXCEEDING FEDERAL DRINKING WATER

STANDARDS BY HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF TIMES WITH RADIUM. AND SO, I --

I DON'T HAVE THE -- THE LIST OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT THOSE STANDARDS ARE. IF

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR, I DON'T HAVE THAT IN MY FINGERTIPS.

MR. MANKTELOW: YEAH, BECAUSE I THINK IT GOES

HAND AND HAND WITH WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. YOU'RE TRYING TO

BAN TOXIC CHEMICALS, WHICH I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND, BUT AT THE SAME

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

TIME SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE NATURALLY OUT THERE IN -- IN THE

ENVIRONMENT. AND I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS

BETWEEN YOUR BILL AND THOSE NUMBERS WERE COMPARED TO WHAT'S

NATURALLY IN THE GROUND.

MR. BURDICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, OVER THE LAST

SEVERAL YEARS, THIS BODY HAS COMMITTED LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS

OF DOLLARS TO REMEDIATE TOXIC SUBSTANCES THAT ARE IN OUR WATER SYSTEMS.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S BOTH LESS EXPENSIVE AND EASIER TO AVOID

CONTAMINATION THAN TO REMEDIATE THEM. AND, YOU KNOW, NOT TO

MENTION THE HUMAN COST OF THESE CARCINOGENIC SUBSTANCES THAT MAY

LEAD TO CANCER AMONG MANY IN OUR STATE AND THAT HITS BOTH A HUMAN TOLL

AS WELL AS A FINANCIAL TOLL THAT WE ALL BEAR.

MR. MANKTELOW: ALL RIGHT. SO SOMEONE THAT

DOES OPPOSE THIS IS THE NEW YORK STATE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT OF -- OR

SUPERINTENDENTS ASSOCIATION, BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME GOOD USES FOR

THIS STUFF AND THEY'RE AT ACCEPTABLE LEVELS AND DEC'S ALLOWING THEM TO

USE THAT RIGHT NOW. SO IF WE'RE GONNA BAN ALL OF THIS, WE'RE GONNA PUT

ANOTHER UNFUNDED MANDATE ONTO OUR HIGHWAYS, ONTO OUR LOCAL

GOVERNMENTS, OUR COUNTY, OUR TOWNS, OUR VILLAGES, 'CAUSE NOW THEY'RE

NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO USE THIS PRODUCT. IS THERE ANY -- WAS THERE ANY

FUNDING IN THE BUDGET TO HELP OFFSET THIS UNFUNDED MANDATE?

MR. BURDICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS AN

INSTANCE IN WHICH WE REALLY NEED TO -- NEED TO TAKE A LONGER VIEW IN

TERMS OF WHAT THE COST IS. AND THE COST OF THESE LESS EXPENSIVE

SOLUTIONS THAT COULD CAUSE SIGNIFICANT HARM AS I'VE DESCRIBED. AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

THEY ARE REALLY PLENTY OF AFFORDABLE OPTIONS. SOLUTION MINING, WHICH I

HAD MADE REFERENCE TO BEFORE, AND AGAIN, I'M VERY PLEASED THAT THE

DOT IS GOING FORWARD WITH A PILOT PROGRAM ON THAT. THERE ARE

HOMEMADE BRINES, THERE'S BEET JUICE, THERE'S A NUMBER OF AFFORDABLE

OPTIONS. AND I -- I DON'T WANT TO BE DISINGENUOUS. YES, THE EXISTING

USE OF THESE FRACKING FLUIDS AND FRACKING WASTEWATER, YOU KNOW, WOULD

BE LESS EXPENSIVE. BUT I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE TOTAL

COST AND -- AND WHAT THAT COST WOULD BE, AS I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY.

MR. MANKTELOW: AND I BELIEVE YOU ARE A

FORMER TOWN SUPERVISOR, RIGHT?

MR. BURDICK: I WAS INDEED.

MR. MANKTELOW: SO, YOU -- YOU COMPLETELY

UNDERSTAND WHY I'M TALKING ABOUT THE UNFUNDED MANDATE BACK TO OUR

LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND WHAT THIS IS GOING TO DO TO THEM.

MR. BURDICK: WELL, I -- YOU KNOW, I'M PROUD OF

MY YEARS AS A SUPERVISOR OF THE TOWN AND FREQUENTLY WE TOOK MORE

EXPENSIVE OPTIONS BECAUSE WE FELT THAT THERE'S MORE EXPENSIVE OPTIONS,

EVEN THOUGH NOT REQUIRED BY FEDERAL OR STATE LAW, WAS THE RIGHT THING TO

DO FOR OUR RESIDENTS.

MR. MANKTELOW: WELL, I -- I THANK YOU FOR YOUR

TIME, MR. BURDICK. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS AND I DO AGREE WITH

A GOOD PORTION OF THIS. I JUST WISH SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS THAT YOU

TALKED ABOUT THAT WE DON'T HAVE OR DON'T SEE, I WISH THEY WERE IN THIS

BILL SO WE COULD TAKE A REALLY GOOD, HARD LOOK AT THIS. SO, THANK YOU

FOR YOUR TIME.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. BURDICK: WELL, THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. MANKTELOW: YOU'RE WELCOME.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: ON THE BILL.

MR. MANKTELOW: AGAIN, AS I JUST SAID, WE'RE --

WE'RE MOVING FORWARD AND ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES SAID EARLIER THAT WE

HAVE DEC, WE HAVE SOME OF THE BEST PEOPLE AND ENGINEERS AND

SCIENTISTS WORKING FOR NEW YORK STATE. IF THIS BILL CAME FORWARD FROM

DEC ASKING US TO MAKE A CHANGE, I PROBABLY COULD SUPPORT IT. BUT THE

SPONSOR SAID THIS IS BASICALLY HIS IDEA, HIS BILL, HE WANTS TO PUSH IT

FORWARD. AND I'M NOT SAYING HE'S ALL WRONG, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO SEE

ALL THE NUMBERS AND ALL THE -- THE COSTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE INVOLVED TO

OUR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES AND WE CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT UNFUNDED

MANDATES AND THIS IS GONNA BE ANOTHER UNFUNDED MANDATE. WE'RE

GOING TO TAKE THIS AWAY AND AT THE SAME TIME WE'RE TRYING TO STOP

PEOPLE IN NEW YORK STATE FROM USING AS MUCH SALT ON THE HIGHWAYS AS

WELL. WHILE WE CAN'T TAKE EVERY TOOL OUT OF THE TOOLBOX AND

ACCOMPLISH THE JOB OF GETTING IT DONE. I JUST THINK WE NEED TO

SOMETIMES SLOW THINGS DOWN, MAYBE DO A PILOT PROGRAM WHERE WE'RE

NOT USING THIS. AND AGAIN, WE'RE NOT DOING IT AND IT'S NOT COMING OUT OF

THE GROUND IN NEW YORK STATE. THERE'S OTHER WAYS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS

AND MAKE IT HAPPEN.

SO, MADAM SPEAKER, I THANK YOU FOR THE TIME TO ASK

THE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO MAKE A FEW COMMENTS

AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THANK YOU, MR.

MANKTELOW.

MR. PALMESANO.

MR. PALMESANO: YES, MADAM SPEAKER. I JUST

HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR THE SPONSOR.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. BURDICK: CERTAINLY.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. PALMESANO: IS -- IS IT YOUR BELIEF THAT THE

DEC OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK DOES NOT REGULATE ENOUGH OR THOROUGHLY

ENOUGH?

MR. BURDICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU KNOW,

AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT INTENDING TO CAST ASPERSIONS

ON THE DEC. I -- I THINK THAT THEY DO THE BEST THEY CAN. BUT, IT'S A BIG

WATERFRONT TO -- TO BE ABLE TO TRY TO -- TO DEAL WITH AND THERE HAVE BEEN

INSTANCES IN WHICH THE BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATIONS HAD ISSUES WITH IT

AND, YOU KNOW, WE, AGAIN, FEEL THAT IT IS -- IT IS REALLY MORE PRUDENT TO

TAKE ACTIONS WHICH WILL PREVENT THIS FROM OCCURRING. BUT AGAIN, I

REALLY DO WISH TO EMPHASIZE THAT AND -- AND I APPRECIATE THAT I'M BEING

TOLD THAT I'M THE SOLE AUTHOR OF THIS. IT HAS, YOU KNOW, QUITE A HISTORY

AS YOU ALL KNOW. BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THIS IS THE MORE PRUDENT

ACTION, BOTH FROM A PUBLIC HEALTH STANDPOINT AS WELL AS FROM THE

TAXPAYER STANDPOINT, SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO ADD RADIUM AND URANIUM

AND SOME OF THESE TOXIC CHEMICALS THAT END UP IN OUR DRINKING WATER

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

AND THAT WE NEED TO ADD THAT TO -- TO GETTING RID OF PFAS AND THE

HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. AND BY THE WAY, THAT DOES FALL ON

MUNICIPALITIES. I KNOW, BECAUSE I AM TRYING TO GET GRANT FUNDING TO

MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE DEALING WITH THESE CONTAMINANTS IN THEIR PUBLIC

WATER SYSTEMS.

MR. PALMESANO: I APPRECIATE THAT LONGWINDED

ANSWER.

AS MY COLLEAGUE MENTIONED, THE DEC HAS EXPERTISE,

THE DEC REGULATES THIS ISSUE NOW. IF THEY BELIEVE THIS WAS A HEALTH OR

A SAFETY ISSUE, WOULDN'T THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO INCORPORATE THIS IN

THROUGH THE REGULATIONS, THROUGH THE PROCESS? WOULDN'T THEY BE ABLE

TO DO THAT IF THEY SO CHOSE?

MR. BURDICK: YOU KNOW, THE DEC REGULATIONS

ARE NOT REALLY THE SUBJECT OF THIS BILL. IT'S REALLY ABOUT SPECIFIC USAGES

OF FRACKING WASTEWATER FROM OIL AND GAS WELLS.

MR. PALMESANO: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: ON THE BILL.

MR. PALMESANO: WHEN YOU READ THE SPONSOR'S

MEMO OF SUPPORT, IT SAYS THE INTENT OF THIS BILL IS TO PREVENT

WASTEWATER FROM HIGH-VOLUME HYDROFRACKING OPERATIONS FROM BEING

USED ON HIGHWAYS IN THE STATE. THIS TYPE OF FRACKING IS NOT CURRENTLY

PERMITTED IN NEW YORK STATE. HOWEVER, THERE ARE MANY EXISTING

NON-FRACKING WELLS IN NEW YORK THAT PRODUCE BRINE. THEY'RE ONLY

USED AFTER A BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATION, OR A BUD, IS APPROVED BY

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

THE DEC. IT REQUIRES HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS TO TEST THE BRINE AND REPORT

ITS USE. THE BUD, THE BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATION, IS NOT ISSUED

WITHOUT A THOROUGH REVIEW AND CHEMICAL ANALYSIS OF THE BRINE. THE

DEC HAS STRICT GUIDELINES AND REGULATIONS THAT THEY IMPLEMENT. IF THEY

NEEDED -- THOUGHT SOMETHING WAS NEEDED TO BE DONE TO ADDRESS THIS,

THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO SO AND WOULD DO SO. ALTHOUGH MY

COLLEAGUE SAYS THIS IS NOT ABOUT REGULATION, IT IS. AND I'VE NEVER ONCE

HEARD THAT THE DEC OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK DOES NOT REGULATE

STRONGLY ENOUGH.

CURRENTLY, THE SYSTEM ALLOWS FOR THE EFFECTIVE USE OF

BRINE FOR OUR HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS WHILE PROTECTING THE ENVIRONMENT

AND PUBLIC HEALTH. AN OUTRIGHT -- AN OUTRIGHT AND ARBITRARY BAN ON THE

USE OF WATER FROM WELLS, PONDS AND FIELDS REALLY FAILS TO RECOGNIZE THE

CURRENT HIGH LEVEL OF STATE REGULATION OF THESE ACTIVITIES ALREADY. THE

BENEFITS THAT WE HAVE FROM THESE SOURCES OF BRINE WATER FOR OUR

HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR SAFETY, FOR DEICING AND DUST

SUPPRESSION. AND NOW FOR OUR HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS -- MY COLLEAGUE

MENTIONED THE TAXPAYERS, MUCH OF THIS WASTEWATER IS FREE, IT'S

ENVIRONMENTALLY SAFE. AND TAKING AWAY THAT OPTION FROM OUR LOCAL

GOVERNMENTS WOULD REALLY FORCE THEM TO PURCHASE THIS BRINE FROM THE

COMMERCIAL SECTOR OR FORCE THEM TO MAKE THEIR OWN BRINE WITH MAKING

COSTLY INVESTMENTS. AND WE ALREADY KNOW THE COST TO OUR HIGHWAY

DEPARTMENTS HAS INCREASED SIGNIFICANTLY TO OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION, THE HIGH

CONSTRUCTION COST INDEX HAS INCREASED 70 PERCENT OVER THE PAST THREE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

YEARS. YES, WE GOT A LITTLE BUMP IN CHIPS FOR US, BUT THAT'S NOT

ENOUGH. SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD JUST PUT MORE UNNECESSARY COSTS

ON THE PROPERTY TAXPAYERS, LEAD TO LESS WORK BEING DONE ON OUR LOCAL

ROADS, BRIDGES AND CULVERTS, AND IT ACTUALLY COSTS THE LOCAL PROPERTY TAX

-- TAXPAYERS ANYMORE.

WE HAVE A SYSTEM IN PLACE THAT'S WORKING. WE SHOULD

KEEP -- LET THIS -- THE SYSTEM WORK THE WAY IT'S DOING IT. THE DEC HAS

THE EXPERTISE, THEY HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE, AND THEY'RE THE ONES MANAGING

THIS. WE SHOULD LET THAT CONTINUE AND NOT PENALIZE OUR LOCAL

MUNICIPALITIES SO THEY CAN KEEP THEIR ROADS SAFE AND PROTECT THEIR

PROPERTY TAXPAYERS.

FOR THAT REASON, MADAM SPEAKER, I WILL BE VOTING NO

ON THIS BILL AND ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THANK YOU, MR.

PALMESANO.

MR. FALL.

MR. FALL: MADAM SPEAKER, CAN YOU PLEASE CALL THE

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM?

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: LOCAL GOVERNMENTS

COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. LOCAL GOVERNMENTS

COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. SHOULD THERE BE ANY MEMBERS WHO'D WISH TO VOTE IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE, THEY MAY DO SO NOW AT THEIR SEATS.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: MR. FALL.

MR. FALL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THIS PIECE OF

LEGISLATION. FOR THOSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION,

THEY COULD DO SO AT THEIR DESK.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. SCHIAVONI TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. SCHIAVONI: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I --

I RISE TODAY TO SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION.

A LOT OF THE FLUIDS THAT ARE ACTUALLY IN FRACK -- FRACKING

FLUIDS IS PROPRIETARY INFORMATION FROM COMPANIES, SO IT'S ACTUALLY VERY

DIFFICULT TO ASCERTAIN WHAT IS ACTUALLY IN THE FLUIDS. AND THE THOUGHT OF

PUTTING THEM ON ALL THE ROADS THROUGHOUT NEW YORK STATE IS ONE OF THE

REASONS WHY I AM COMPLETELY SUPPORTING THIS BILL.

I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: MR. SCHIAVONI IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. BURDICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I

WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER FOR ALLOWING THIS BILL TO COME TO THE FLOOR.

AS I MENTIONED IN THE COURSE OF THE DEBATE, I DO FEEL

THAT THIS IS A BILL THAT IN THE LONG RUN WILL BOTH PROTECT PUBLIC HEALTH AS

WELL AS RESULT IN LESSER EXPENSE; LESSER EXPENSE FOR STATEWIDE HEALTH

COSTS AND ACTUALLY ULTIMATELY WE'RE GONNA FIND THAT ALTERNATIVES WILL

COME DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY IN PRICE, AND THAT THOSE ALTERNATIVES THAT ARE

SAFE WILL BE ABLE TO BE USED WELL. AND AGAIN, I THINK THAT THIS IS A BILL

WHOSE TIME HAS COME. AND WE HAVE NARROWED THE SCOPE OF IT

CONSIDERABLY IN ORDER TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN

BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION.

SO, AGAIN, MY THANKS TO THE -- TO THE SPEAKER, AND I

ALSO WANT TO THANK THE CHAIR OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONVERSATION

COMMITTEE, ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK, FOR HER SUPPORT, AND ALSO THE

WORK OF PROGRAM AND COUNSEL IN PUTTING TOGETHER THE AMENDMENTS TO

THE BILL.

I WILL BE VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: MR. BURDICK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULT.)

THE BILL HAS PASSED.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. FALL FOR AN INTRODUCTION.

MR. FALL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ON BEHALF OF MEMBER LINDA ROSENTHAL, I'M PLEASED TO

INTRODUCE A GROUP OF YOUNG PEOPLE VISITING US TODAY FROM MANHATTAN'S

SCOUTING AMERICA TROOP. JOINING US ARE BOTH BOYS AND GIRLS FROM

SCOUT TROOP 1 AND CUB PACK 1, ALONG WITH THEIR DEDICATED LEADERS

TROOP SCOUTMASTER CLAUDIA BURKE, TROOP LEADER ADAM BROWN AND

CUB PACK LEADER MICHAEL BRUS.

WOULD YOU PLEASE BE SO KIND TO WELCOME THEM TO THE

PEOPLE'S HOUSE?

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THANK YOU. THANK

YOU, MR. FALL.

ON BEHALF OF MR. FALL, MS. ROSENTHAL, THE SPEAKER

AND ALL OF THE MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU TO THE CHAMBER, EXTEND THE

PRIVILEGES OF THE FLOOR, AND HOPE YOU ENJOY THE PROCEEDINGS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

(APPLAUSE)

(PAUSE)

PAGE 8, RULES REPORT NO. 256, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A00026, RULES REPORT

NO. 256, ROSENTHAL. AN ACT TO AMEND THE SOCIAL SERVICES LAW AND THE

PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING MEDICAID FROM REQUIRING

PRIOR AUTHORIZATION FOR HIV MEDICATION.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MS. ROSENTHAL.

MS. ROSENTHAL: OKAY. THIS BILL WOULD ENSURE

THAT MEDICAID PROVIDERS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO OBTAIN PRIOR AUTHORIZATION

TO PRESCRIBE ANTI-RETROVIVAL -- VIRAL PRESCRIPTION DRUGS FOR THE TREATMENT

OR PREVENTION OF HIV/AIDS.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THANK YOU.

MR. JENSEN.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM

SPEAKER.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: ON THE BILL.

MR. JENSEN: THANK YOU. AND I WANT TO THANK OUR

COLLEAGUE FROM THE UPPER WEST SIDE FOR HER EXPLANATION. AND

CERTAINLY THIS HAS BEEN A BILL WHEN IT CAME THROUGH THE HEALTH

COMMITTEE THAT I DID SUPPORT, AND CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO

ENSURE THAT THOSE NEW YORKERS EITHER WITH HIV OR AIDS OR MAY BE

COMING INTO CONTACT WITH -- WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO DO HAVE HIV OR

AIDS, DO HAVE ACCESS TO CRITICALLY IMPORTANT MEDICATIONS LIKE PREP,

PEP AND OTHER MEDICATIONS THAT ENSURE THAT WE LESSEN THE POTENTIAL OF

THE SPREAD OF HIV AND AIDS. AND CERTAINLY, WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT

THERE'S ACCESS TO THESE IMPORTANT MEDICATIONS. AND WHILE I AM

SUPPORTIVE OF THIS LEGISLATION TO -- TO ENSURE THAT WE DO STOP THE SPREAD

OF THOSE -- OF THOSE DISEASES, I ALSO DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT LESSENING

THE -- THE ROLE FOR PLANS IN UNDERGOING PRIOR AUTHORIZATION. CERTAINLY,

WITH PREP AND PEP, THERE ARE VERY IMPORTANT HEALTH METRICS FOR THOSE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

WHO ARE PRESCRIBED THAT MEDICATION TO GO THROUGH TO ENSURE THAT IT IS

EFFECTIVE IN PREVENTING THE SPREAD OF HIV AND AIDS. AND CERTAINLY,

THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF ENSURING THE EFFECTIVENESS AND THE EFFICACY

OF -- OF THESE MEDICATIONS.

IN THE PAST, THIS LEGISLATURE HAS PASSED AND THE

GOVERNOR HAS SIGNED INTO LAW OTHER MEASURES THAT PROHIBIT THE USE OF

PRIOR AUTHORIZATION FOR THESE MEDICATIONS, AS WELL AS EVEN FURTHER BACK

REQUIRING THE COVERAGE OF THOSE MEDICATIONS. AND WHILE WE HAVE

THOSE LAWS ON THE BOOKS, I COULD ALSO UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN THAT THIS

LEGISLATION MAY BE DUPLICATIVE. ADJACENTLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATE'S

TOTAL MEDICAID SPEND, WE ARE QUITE HIGH. AND WHILE THIS DOESN'T SPEAK

TO THE MEDICAID COVERAGE OF THIS MEDICATION OR ANY OTHER MEDICATION,

WE HAVE SEEN OUR STATE'S MEDICAID OBLIGATIONS FAR EXPAND PAST THE

REASON WHY THE PROGRAM WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED, CERTAINLY TAKING UP A

-- A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF OUR STATE BUDGET.

SO ONCE AGAIN, WHILE I AM SUPPORTIVE OF THIS BILL AND

WILL BE CASTING A YEA VOTE FOR IT, I DO THINK WE HAVE TO ENSURE THAT WE --

WE DO HAVE THE ABILITY NOT JUST TO -- TO CONTROL OUR MEDICAID SPENDING,

BUT ALSO ENSURE THAT WHEN MEDICATIONS ARE PRESCRIBED WE'RE TAKING INTO

ACCOUNT PATIENT NEEDS, THE PRESCRIBING AUTHORITY OF THE -- OF THE

PRESCRIBER, AS WELL AS THE PLAN'S ROLE IN ENSURING THAT WE'RE PRESCRIBING

AND AUTHORIZING PROPER -- PROPER PRESCRIPTIONS FOR THE BEST POSSIBLE

TREATMENT FOR INDIVIDUALS.

SO WITH THAT, ONCE AGAIN, I -- I THANK THE SPONSOR FOR

HER EXPLANATION, AND THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THANK YOU, MR.

JENSEN.

THE CLERK WILL READ -- READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 180TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER TORRES: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MS. ROSENTHAL TO

EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. ROSENTHAL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, TO

EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

LAST YEAR, WE PASSED A LAW PROHIBITING PRIVATE

INSURERS FROM IMPOSING PRIOR AUTHORIZATION, BUT THAT LAW DID NOT EXTEND

TO MEDICAID PLANS. PRIOR AUTHORIZATIONS REQUIREMENTS HAVE CREATED

SIGNIFICANT BARRIERS TO LIFESAVING ANTIRETROVIRAL MEDICATIONS. THE AMA

SAYS THAT PRIOR AUTHORIZATIONS LEAD TO 94 PERCENT OF PATIENTS

EXPERIENCING CARE DELAYS, WITH 78 PERCENT ABANDONING TREATMENT ALL

TOGETHER. ANY DELAY IN TREATMENT UNDERMINES THE EFFECTIVENESS OF

ANTIRETROVIRAL THERAPY.

AND SO THIS BILL WILL -- WILL EXTEND THE -- THE NEED FOR

PRIOR AUTHORIZATION WILL BE ELIMINATED FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ON MEDICAID

WHO HAVE HIV OR AIDS. IT'S AN IMPORTANT MEASURE SO THAT EVERYBODY

CAN BENEFIT FROM THESE NEW MEDICATIONS.

AND SO I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THANK YOU.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. ROSENTHAL IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MR. FALL.

MR. FALL: MADAM SPEAKER, CAN YOU PLEASE CALL THE

REAL PROPERTY TAX [SIC] COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE

ROOM?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: REAL PROPERTY TAX

[SIC] TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. COMMITTEE MEMBERS FOR

REAL PROPERTY [SIC], SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM.

PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 297, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02212, RULES REPORT

NO. 297, BRAUNSTEIN, WOERNER, STECK, PAULIN, BRABENEC, STIRPE. AN

ACT TO AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW AND THE GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW,

IN RELATION TO REQUIRING FULL PAYMENT FOR DELIVERED AND ACCEPTED

MATERIALS PERTAINING TO PUBLIC WORK PROJECTS; AND TO AMEND THE GENERAL

BUSINESS LAW, IN RELATION TO PROHIBITING THE RETENTION OF ANY PAYMENT

DUE AND OWING A MATERIAL SUPPLIER FOR A CONSTRUCTION PROJECT.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. BRAUNSTEIN.

CAN WE HAVE SOME QUIET IN THE CHAMBER, PLEASE?

MR. BRAUNSTEIN.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: THANK YOU. THIS BILL AMENDS

THE STATE FINANCE LAW, GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW AND GENERAL BUSINESS

LAW TO PROHIBIT RETAINAGE ON PAYMENTS OWED TO MATERIALS SUPPLIERS FOR

DELIVERED AND ACCEPTED MATERIALS ON PUBLIC AND PRIVATE CONSTRUCTION

PROJECTS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. GANDOLFO.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR PLEASE YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: SURE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GANDOLFO: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AND

THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXPLANATION.

SO CURRENTLY, WHAT IS THE ALLOWABLE AMOUNT OF

RETAINAGE ON MATERIALS?

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: FIVE PERCENT.

MR. GANDOLFO: FIVE PERCENT. OKAY. AND NOW

THIS, THERE CAN BE NO AMOUNT OF RETAINAGE AT ALL IN ANY PUBLIC OR PRIVATE

CONTRACT?

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: ONLY FOR MATERIALS SUPPLIED

THAT ARE GRADED TO INDUSTRY STANDARDS OR COVERED UNDER A WARRANTY.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

AND NOW, ONE THING I WANTED TO CLARIFY, YOU

MENTIONED THAT -- THAT PROVISION THAT IF IT'S UNDER MANUFACTURER'S

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

WARRANTY. SO FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS BILL, WHAT DOES CONSTITUTE A

MATERIAL? WOULD THIS NOT APPLY IF THERE IS NO MANUFACTURER'S WARRANTY

ON THE MATERIAL DELIVERED?

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: CORRECT.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO --

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: OR -- OR GRADED BY -- UNDER

INDUSTRY STANDARDS. THOSE TWO QUALIFY.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO, MATERIALS, LET'S SAY,

SOME KIND OF LUMBER THAT'S DELIVERED HAS NO MANUFACTURER'S WARRANTY.

THAT IS NOT SUBJECT TO THIS NEW PROHIBITION --

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: WELL, LUMBER, I BELIEVE IS

GRADED --

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY, BUT -- OKAY, LUMBER IS

GRADED.

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: YEAH.

MR. GANDOLFO: SO THAT -- SO IF IT IS GRADED, THE

PROHIBITION IS IN EFFECT. IF IT'S NOT GRADED, NOT IN EFFECT.

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: CORRECT.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

NOW, IF THERE IS SOME ISSUE THAT'S DISCOVERED WITH --

WITH THE MATERIALS THAT ARE DELIVERED AT A LATER POINT, MAYBE IT'S NOT

IMMEDIATELY NOTICEABLE, WHAT RECOURSE WOULD THE OWNER OR THE GENERAL

CONTRACTOR ON THE PROJECT HAVE WITHOUT THE RETAINAGE?

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: I MEAN, THIS -- THIS WOULD BE

THE RECOURSE YOU WOULD TYPICALLY HAVE WITH ANY OTHER PRODUCT THAT YOU

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

BUY WHERE THERE'S NOT RETAINAGE. YOU WOULD --

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: IF THERE'S A WARRANTY, OBVIOUSLY

YOU -- YOU GO BACK AND YOU SAY, THIS IS COVERED UNDER WARRANTY.

THERE'S A DEFECT. YOU'RE REQUIRED TO -- TO FIX IT. AND WHEN -- YOU

KNOW, PRODUCTS THAT ARE GRADED ARE -- ARE TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, MEET UP

TO STANDARDS. SO THAT WILL BE A RARE SITUATION.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO IF LET'S SAY THERE'S SOME

KIND OF DISPUTE WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING THAT IS A DEFECT IS COVERED

UNDER WARRANTY OR WHETHER IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IMPROPER STORAGE OR

IMPROPERLY INSTALLED. DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT LITIGATION WOULD BE

NECESSARY TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE?

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE

NORMALLY HOW THINGS WOULD WORK. IT DOESN'T CHANGE THAT SITUATION.

MR. GANDOLFO: WELL CURRENTLY, AS I UNDERSTAND

IT, THE 5 TO 10 PERCENT RETAINAGE IS TYPICALLY USED TO ENCOURAGE A

QUICKER RESOLUTION TO THESE THINGS. IF THE MATERIAL SUPPLIER NEEDS THAT 5

OR 10 PERCENT THAT'S BEING WITHHELD, THEY MIGHT BE MORE LIKELY TO WORK

TO RESOLVE IT A LITTLE QUICKER. SO A CONCERN THAT I HAVE IS THAT WITHOUT

THE RETAINAGE YOU COULD END UP IN MORE DRAWN-OUT DISPUTES THAT MIGHT

DELAY PROJECT TIMES. IS THAT A CONCERN?

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: NO. I -- I WOULD ARGUE THAT

WHEN MATERIALS ARE SUPPLIED, THE PERSON BUYING THOSE MATERIALS HAS THE

OPPORTUNITY TO INSPECT THEM UPON DELIVERY, RIGHT? THEY ARE PROTECTED

THAT THEY MEET INDUSTRY STANDARDS AND GRADED, OR THEY'RE PROTECTED BY A

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

WARRANTY. LIKE ANY OTHER TRANSACTION YOU HAVE, ONCE THE MATERIAL

SUPPLIER HAS DELIVERED THE GOODS, THE BUYER HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO

INSPECT THEM, THEIR OBLIGATION IS CONCLUDED AT THAT POINT.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

NOW, I KNOW THIS -- THERE WAS A SIMILAR VERSION, IF NOT

THE SAME VERSION OF THIS BILL PASSED IN 2015 THAT WAS VETOED BY

GOVERNOR CUOMO. HAVE THERE BEEN ANY CHANGES IN RESPONSE TO THAT

VETO MESSAGE?

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: NO. WE'RE HOPEFUL; THERE'S A

NEW GOVERNOR NOW. SO WE'RE HOPEFUL, A DIFFERENT RESOLUTION.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. FAIR ENOUGH. THAT'S ALL I

HAVE. THANK YOU, MR. BRAUNSTEIN. THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

MR. BRAUNSTEIN: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: READ THE LAST

SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT ON THE 30TH

DAY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE CLERK WILL

RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. DAIS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. DAIS: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. I WOULD

LIKE TO THANK THE SPONSOR FOR THIS BILL.

AS SOMEONE WHO HAS A BACKGROUND IN CONSTRUCTION,

I'M SPECIFICALLY THINKING ABOUT THE SMALL CONTRACTORS, THE MATERIALS,

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

WHEN THEY BRING INTO A JOB SITE. THIS IS ENSURING THAT THEY GET PAYMENT

IN FULL. I HAVE BEEN ON PROJECTS, ESPECIALLY FOR MBES, WBES, VBES,

OUR VETERAN BUSINESSES, AND I'VE SEEN THE -- THE RETAINER CAN MAKE THE

DIFFERENCE OF THEM MAKING PAYROLL AND NOT MAKING PAYROLL. ESPECIALLY

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT RIGHT NOW WITH THE CURRENT TARIFF SITUATION AND

HOW THAT'S INCREASING MATERIALS FOR CONSTRUCTION, ENSURING THAT OUR

SUBCONTRACTORS AND OUR CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES WITHIN OUR GREAT STATE

CAN PAY THEIR BILLS AND PAY THEIR WORKERS IS KEY TO MAKING SURE THAT OUR

CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY REMAINS STRONG AND VIBRANT.

SO I WANT TO THANK THE SPONSOR AND I'M VOTING IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE. THANK -- OH, WE ALREADY VOTED, BUT THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. DAIS IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

MS. WALSH FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM

SPEAKER.

SO TODAY I'M SO GLAD TO BE JOINED BY ANOTHER GREAT

GROUP OF FOURTH GRADERS. THESE KIDS ARE FROM THE SHENENDEHOWA

SCHOOL DISTRICT FROM KARIGON ELEMENTARY. AND THEY -- I BELIEVE WE

DID -- I DIDN'T DO A HEAD COUNT, BUT I THINK THERE ARE 21, ALONG WITH

CHAPERONES AND TEACHERS TODAY. THEY ARE HERE TO VISIT THE PEOPLE'S

HOUSE TO SEE HOW WE'RE DOING OUR WORK HERE AT THE END OF SESSION.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

AND I WAS KIND OF EXPLAINING THE -- THE BOARD AND HOW THE VOTES GO,

AND I JUST THINK IT'S WONDERFUL THAT THEY'VE COME TO JOIN US TODAY. THEY

MAY NEVER BECOME ASSEMBLYMEMBERS, MAYBE; MAYBE THEY WILL. BUT

THEY'LL DEFINITELY BE BETTER CITIZENS FOR HAVING STOPPED BY TO SEE HOW ALL

OF THIS WORKS.

SO, MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU COULD PLEASE EXTEND A

GREETING TO THESE GREAT FOURTH GRADERS AND AFFORD TO THEM ALL THE

CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE, PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF MS.

WALSH, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU YOUNG PEOPLE

FROM THE KARIGON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES OF THE

FLOOR TO YOU. VERY EXCITED TO SEE YOU HERE TODAY, LEARNING ALL ABOUT

STATE GOVERNMENT AND CIVICS, AND IT'S SUPER IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO SEE

WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY; DECISIONS THAT WE'RE MAKING, AND ONE

DAY, AS MS. WALSH SAID, YOU, TOO, COULD BE ONE OF THE PEOPLE ELECTED

INTO OFFICE. SO I'M VERY GLAD TO SEE YOU HERE TODAY. THANK YOU SO

MUCH FOR JOINING US.

(APPLAUSE)

MS. WALSH FOR THE PURPOSES OF AN INTRODUCTION.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. IT'S --

IT'S WONDERFUL ON BEHALF OF ASSEMBLYMEMBER STEVE HAWLEY TO

INTRODUCE A GROUP THAT HAS COME TO VISIT HIM TODAY IN THE STATE

ASSEMBLY. THESE STUDENTS ARE SENIORS, I BELIEVE, FROM THE OAKFIELD-

ALABAMA CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT. THEY ARE -- THEY ARE MAKING A CIVICS

CLASS PRESENTATION TO ASSEMBLY AND SENATE MENTAL HEALTH COMMITTEES

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ON THEIR RESEARCH THAT SHOWS LINKS BETWEEN SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND MENTAL

HEALTH ISSUES, WHICH I KNOW THAT AS AN ASSEMBLY BODY WE HAVE

DISCUSSED A NUMBER OF TIMES HERE ON THE FLOOR.

SO THE NAMES OF GUESTS INCLUDE PETER BEULER, WHO IS

ONE OF THE TEACHERS; LILAH BARRETT, KAYLEE BURGEL -- BURGAL MAYBE, I'M

SORRY IF I MESSED THAT UP; NEVAEH CONIBEAR, ELIANA EMERY, KENDALL

NEWBOULD, ALEXIS SMITH AND JESSICA SOSNOWSKI. THEY WERE ALL THE

STUDENTS WHO ARE HERE TODAY. AND AS I SAID, I THINK THAT IT'S WONDERFUL

TO NOT ONLY WELCOME MR. HAWLEY'S GUESTS TO THE CHAMBER, BUT ALSO TO

THANK THEM FOR TAKING A DEEP DIVE AND DOING SOME RESEARCH INTO

SOMETHING THAT IS VERY TOPICAL AND SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY THE MENTAL

HEALTH COMMITTEES, BUT WE, AS AN ASSEMBLY, ARE DEFINITELY

CONSIDERING IN THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING HERE.

SO I WOULD APPRECIATE IT, MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU

WOULD WELCOME THEM TO THE CHAMBER AND AFFORD TO THEM ALL THE

CORDIALITIES OF THE HOUSE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON BEHALF OF MS.

WALSH, MR. HAWLEY, THE SPEAKER AND ALL MEMBERS, WE WELCOME YOU TO

THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER, THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, AND EXTEND THE PRIVILEGES

OF THE FLOOR TO YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMITTED WORK THAT YOU

ARE DOING RELATIVE TO MENTAL HEALTH AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE. IT CROSSES ALL

LINES, ALL DIVERSITIES, ALL BACKGROUNDS. EVERY PART OF OUR STATE. AND SO

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO SEE YOUNG PEOPLE SO ACTIVELY INVOLVED ABOUT AN

ISSUE THAT REALLY PERMEATES OUR WHOLE SOCIETY. SO THANK YOU VERY

MUCH FOR ALL OF THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING, AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

US TODAY.

(APPLAUSE)

MR. FALL.

MR. FALL: MADAM SPEAKER, CAN YOU PLEASE CALL THE

CODES COMMITTEE TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: CODES COMMITTEE

TO THE SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM. PLEASE SEE CHAIR DINOWITZ IN THE

SPEAKER'S CONFERENCE ROOM FOR CODES COMMITTEE.

PAGE 11, RULES REPORT NO. 301, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A02496, RULES REPORT

NO. 301, MCDONALD, BURDICK, SIMON, HEVESI, GLICK, WOERNER,

DESTEFANO, DAVILA, REYES, BENDETT, HYNDMAN, SEAWRIGHT. AN ACT TO

AMEND THE STATE FINANCE LAW, IN RELATION TO PREFERRED SOURCE STATUS FOR

ENTITIES THAT PROVIDE EMPLOYMENT AND SERVICES TO CERTAIN PERSONS.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MR. MCDONALD.

MR. MCDONALD: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

THIS LEGISLATION WOULD ALLOW THE COMMISSIONER OF

EDUCATION TO APPROVE QUALIFIED CHARITABLE NON-PROFIT ENTITIES THAT

PROVIDE VOCATIONAL AND REHABILITATION TRAINING TO FORMERLY INCARCERATED

PERSONS TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PREFERRED SOURCE PROGRAM. ADDITIONALLY,

THIS LEGISLATION ALSO HAS SOME MINOR LANGUAGE CHANGES TO

ACCOMMODATE THE MODERNIZATION OF PREFERRED SOURCE SERVICES.

BUT IF I COULD JUST, AS I'M EXPLAINING, JUST TO CLARIFY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

AS MANY PEOPLE KNOW, PREFERRED SOURCE WAS CREATED BY THIS

LEGISLATURE OVER 50 YEARS AGO, AND IT CONTINUES TO GROW AND EVOLVE

OVER TIME. ORIGINALLY, THOSE NOT-FOR-PROFITS THAT WE ASSUME OR THINK OF

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PREFERRED SOURCE, WE THINK OF THE O AGENCIES; THE

OFFICE OF -- OPWDD, OMH, OASAS. ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO,

THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT ACTUALLY INCLUDED VETERANS' ORGANIZATIONS TO

MAKE SURE OUR VETERANS, WHEN THEY'RE ENTERING -- COMING BACK INTO

PROGRAMS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENTER A REENTRY PROGRAM. REENTRY

INTO THE COMMUNITY NOT NECESSARILY FROM PRISON. SO THIS ONE BASICALLY

ADDRESSES THE FACT THAT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE REENTERING SOCIETY

AFTER THEIR TIME IN CARCERATION [SIC]. THEY MOVE INTO PROGRAMS THAT

PROVIDE HOUSING, BUT THE HOUSING ALSO REQUIRES THAT THEY HAVE A JOB.

AND THERE ARE NOT-FOR-PROFITS THAT TEAM UP WITH THESE REENTRY PROGRAMS

TO MAKE SURE INDIVIDUALS ARE GAINFULLY EMPLOYED, AND HOPEFULLY

BECOME A CONTRIBUTING MEMBER OF SOCIETY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. GANDOLFO.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

WOULD THE SPONSOR PLEASE YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MR. MCDONALD: YES, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU FOR THE

EXPLANATION.

SO FIRST, CAN WE START WITH -- I JUST WANT TO GET INTO A

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

LITTLE MORE WHAT THE PREFERRED SOURCE PROGRAM ACTUALLY MEANS. THAT

ALLOWS CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS -- DO THEY -- ARE THEY ABLE TO BYPASS

COMPETITIVE BIDDING ON PUBLIC PROJECTS?

MR. MCDONALD: SO WHEN THEY BID ON PROJECTS,

THEY ARE GIVEN A VARIANCE OF ABOUT 15 PERCENT TO BE SELECTED. SO,

MOSTLY IT'S WITH STATE AGENCIES. A LOT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DON'T

RECOGNIZE THAT THEY, TOO, CAN PARTICIPATE WITH PREFERRED SOURCE, BUT

PRIMARILY IT'S WITH STATE AGENCIES. AND, YOU KNOW, AS YOU KNOW, THE

THREE MAIN ONES THAT WE HAVE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK ARE NYSID,

WHICH IS THE NEW YORK STATE FOR DISABILITIES [SIC]. WE HAVE CORCRAFT,

WHICH DEALS WITH THOSE INCARCERATION [SIC]. AND THE ONE FOR THE

VISUALLY IMPAIRED, WHICH I'M DRAWING A BLANK RIGHT NOW ON WHICH ONE

IT IS.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. MCDONALD: BUT THOSE ARE THE THREE MAIN

ONES.

MR. GANDOLFO: SO THEY COULD BUT IN A BID, LET'S

SAY, FIVE TO TEN PERCENT HIGHER AND --

MR. MCDONALD: AND -- AND THEY WOULD BE ABLE

TO RECEIVE THAT BID. SOMETIMES THE NOT-FOR-PROFITS DO IT ON THEIR OWN.

SOMETIMES THEY ACTUALLY PARTNER UP WITH PRIVATE SECTOR BUSINESS AS

WELL AND THAT SEEMS TO BE A GREATER TREND, BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S

A GREAT DEMAND FOR MORE PEOPLE IN THE WORKFORCE FOR A LOT OF THESE

JOBS.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. NOW, WHAT IS THE BENEFIT

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

TO, LET'S SAY, THE STATE OR A MUNICIPALITY FROM CHOOSING ONE OF THE

ORGANIZATIONS THAT'S ON THE PREFERRED SOURCE LIST?

MR. MCDONALD: THE BENEFIT TO THE STATE IS

MULTIPLE REASONS: ONE, FIRST OF ALL, A LOT OF THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE

REQUIRED TO PARTICIPATE IN THEIR WORK PLAN. SO THEY ACTUALLY SHOW UP

FOR WORK. I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE HERE AT THE

STATE -- AND MEMBER WALSH REMEMBERS THIS VERY WELL -- ABOUT FOUR OR

FIVE YEARS AGO THE STATE THOUGHT IT WAS A GREAT IDEA TO BRING IN

(INDISCERNIBLE) FOR PRINTING FOR -- AND THEY ACTUALLY, ON THE ANNIVERSARY

OF PREFERRED SOURCE, TOOK AWAY A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT FROM

ONE OF OUR LEADING NOT-FOR-PROFITS FOR THE DISABLED IN THE CAPITAL

REGION. AND BASICALLY, IT MEANT THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS WEREN'T GONNA

GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. MCDONALD: AND AS WE KNOW, IN THE

DISABILITY COMMUNITY BUT ALSO IN THE FORMERLY INCARCERATED AND EVEN IN

OUR VETERANS' COMMUNITY, THERE IS [SIC] UNACCEPTABLY HIGH

UNEMPLOYMENT RATES. AND OUR GOAL OF THIS PROGRAM, AND ACTUALLY THE

OUTCOME OF THIS PROGRAM, IS SO WE'LL GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK AND

CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF

THE PREFERRED SOURCE PROGRAM WAS TO GIVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO THOSE

WITH DISABILITIES TO ENCOURAGE, YOU KNOW, MORE BUSINESS GOING TO THOSE

ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE GIVING THEM THAT WORK OPPORTUNITY.

MR. MCDONALD: RIGHT.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. MCDONALD: AND TO GET THE WORK DONE AT A

VERY REASONABLE PRICE.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. NOW --

MR. MCDONALD: AND JUST TO BE CLEAR BECAUSE,

YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED THERE'S A VARIANCE OF 15 PERCENT. THAT'S THE

THRESHOLD. BUT THERE'S MANY TIMES WHERE THEIR BIDS ACTUALLY COME IN

AND THEY'RE JUST AS COMPETITIVE ALMOST DOLLAR -- DOWN TO THE PENNY.

BUT THERE ARE TIMES THEY HAVE THAT VARIANCE THAT THEY CAN WORK WITH.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

NOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT

HAS EXTENDED THIS TO -- TO VETERANS AS WELL. IS THAT DISABLED VETERANS?

MR. MCDONALD: NO, ALL VETERANS.

MR. GANDOLFO: ALL VETERANS.

MR. MCDONALD: ANY -- ANY VETERAN WHO IS

REENTERING THE COMMUNITY. HERE IN ALBANY OVER ON 1ST STREET, THE VET

[SIC] HOUSE, I'VE BEEN REPRESENTING IT FOR 13 YEARS, IT'S GREAT. AND I

WOULD INVITE ANY MEMBER AT ANY TIME TO GO OVER AND VISIT THEM,

PARTICULARLY AROUND VETERAN'S DAY. THEY PUT OUT A GREAT BREAKFAST,

THEY'RE GREAT COOKS. BUT WHAT THEY DO IS THEY PROVIDE HOUSING, AND

THEY CONNECT THEM WITH THE VA FOR SERVICES. AND BY THE WAY, THE VA

CONNECTS WITH THEM FOR SERVICES TO HELP GET THESE INDIVIDUALS

EMPLOYED, GET THEM IN THE COMMUNITY. USUALLY THEY'RE IN THE VET [SIC]

HOUSE FOR ABOUT SIX TO NINE MONTHS, AND THEN THEY USUALLY SETTLE IN THE

SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES AND REENGAGE WITH THEIR FAMILIES AND -- AND

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ALL THE GOOD THINGS. BUT IT'S NOT JUST THE DISABLED VETERANS.

MR. GANDOLFO: SO NOW, WAS THAT DONE VIA

REGULATION? BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AT THE STATUTE WE'RE AMENDING HERE,

AND THE ONLY REFERENCES I SEE ARE TO PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES, AND WE'RE

AMENDING IT TO ADD FORMERLY INCARCERATED PERSONS.

MR. MCDONALD: THAT -- THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT.

NO, ACTUALLY, THAT WAS DONE THROUGH REGULATION THROUGH THE EDUCATION

DEPARTMENT.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY. SO WHY ARE WE NOT

CODIFYING THAT AS WELL?

MR. MCDONALD: I DON'T KNOW.

(PAUSE/CONFERENCING)

WELL, WE'RE -- REPEAT THE QUESTION JUST TO MAKE SURE I

UNDERSTOOD IT. WHY ARE WE JUST AMENDING --

MR. GANDOLFO: YEAH --

MR. MCDONALD: -- (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK)

VETERANS ALREADY?

MR. GANDOLFO: WELL, I'M SEEING WE'RE PUTTING

THIS IN THE STATUTE. THERE'S NO -- THERE'S NO REFERENCE IN STATUTE TO

VETERANS BEING ELIGIBLE -- VETERANS ORGANIZATIONS BEING ELIGIBLE FOR THE

PREFERRED SOURCE LIST. SO WHY ARE WE SPECIFICALLY PUTTING IN FORMERLY

INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS AND NOT SOME OF THE OTHER GROUPS AND

CODIFYING THAT INTO LAW?

(CONFERENCING)

MR. MCDONALD: I CAN'T GIVE YOU A BETTER -- I CAN'T

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

GIVE YOU A GOOD ANSWER, TO BE ABSOLUTELY HONEST WITH YOU.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. MCDONALD: BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY

ACCEPTED THROUGH THE REGULATORY PROCESS, THE VETERANS.

MR. GANDOLFO: OKAY.

MR. MCDONALD: YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN

AMENDMENT TO STATE FINANCE LAW TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LEGIS -- THE

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT KNOW THAT IT'S THE LEGISLATURE'S INTENT THAT

BECAUSE WE SEE HIGH RATES OF DISABILITY IN THE FORMERLY INCARCERATED

AND WE SEE -- IN 2024 THE PRISON -- PRISON POPULATION INITIATIVE,

WHEREAS THE AVERAGE DISABILITY RATE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY IS 15

PERCENT, IN FORMERLY INCARCERATED MEN'S POPULATION, 40 PERCENT ARE

DISABLED OF THOSE BEING RELEASED, AND WOMEN ACTUALLY 50 PERCENT. SO

WE'RE RECOGNIZING THAT THEY'RE INDIVIDUALS THAT PROBABLY THROUGH THEIR

LIFE CIRCUMSTANCES, FOR WHATEVER REASON, WERE NEVER CLEARLY DIAGNOSED

AND HAVING A DISABILITY. AND AT THE SAME TOKEN, IF WE WANT THEM TO BE

CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS TO SOCIETY, WE NEED TO GET THEM INTO A PROGRAM

WHERE THEY HAVE HOUSING AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR JOB TRAINING.

MR. GANDOLFO: WOULD A CRIMINAL RECORD PREVENT

SOMEONE WHO WAS INCARCERATED WHO IS DISABLED FROM PARTICIPATING

WITH AN ORGANIZATION THAT SERVICES DISABLED PEOPLE?

MR. MCDONALD: NO. THIS -- THIS ISN'T ABOUT THAT.

THIS IS ABOUT INDIVIDUALS WHO -- I USE THE EXPRESSION, I'M SHOWING MY

AGE, HAVE PAID THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY. THEY'VE BEEN ALLOWED TO GO BACK

INTO THE COMMUNITY. THEY HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED INTO A -- A LEGITIMATE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

PROGRAM, A RECOGNIZED NOT-FOR-PROFIT THAT SED RECOGNIZES AS BEING PART

OF THE PREFERRED SOURCE PROGRAM. WE'RE JUST ALLOWING THAT NOT-FOR-

PROFIT, AFTER SCRUTINY BY THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT -- THEY SIT UNDER THE

(INDISCERNIBLE) COMPONENT OF THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, JUST FOR

PEOPLE'S INFORMATION. IT GIVES THAT NOT-FOR-PROFIT TO ACTUALLY SEEK TO

RESPOND TO BIDS FOR PROCUREMENTS.

MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT. BUT I'M -- I'M JUST TRYING

TO FIGURE OUT THE NEED TO SPECIFICALLY CODIFY FORMERLY INCARCERATED

PEOPLE HERE. SO IF THEY ARE FORMERLY INCARCERATED AND DISABLED, IS --

WHAT IS STOPPING THEM FROM RECEIVING ASSISTANCE FROM AN ORGANIZATION

OR WORKING WITH AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS ALREADY ELIGIBLE FOR PREFERRED

SOURCE?

MR. MCDONALD: I THINK ALL OF THE NOT-FOR-PROFITS,

YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO GROW THE PROGRAM. WE'RE

NOT TALKING ABOUT COMPETING WITH THE DISABLED. WE'RE NOT TALKING

ABOUT COMPETING WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH SUBSTANCE

USE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GROWING THE PROGRAM, BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE

JOBS ARE JOBS THAT ARE NOT BEING FULFILLED.

MR. GANDOLFO: RIGHT. BUT WHAT --

MR. MCDONALD: (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK). SO

THEREFORE, IF THEY COULD COMPETE FOR MORE CONTRACTS, IN OTHER WORDS,

NON-PROFIT A IS ABLE TO INCLUDE THEM -- INCLUDE THEM IN -- IN A

PROPOSAL, THEY CAN ACTUALLY GROW THE FIELD, MAKE THE PIE BIGGER.

MR. GANDOLFO: WELL, ISN'T IT INHERENTLY PUTTING

NOW ORGANIZATIONS THAT WORK WITH FORMERLY INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS IN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

COMPETITION WITH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES IF THEY'RE BIDDING

ON THE SAME TYPES OF --

MR. MCDONALD: WE'RE NOT. WE'RE ACTUALLY

GROWING THE PIE. WE'RE NOT DOING THAT.

MR. GANDOLFO: YEAH, BUT HOW -- DOESN'T

GROWING THE PIE INCREASE THE COMPETITION IF YOU HAVE SEVERAL DIFFERENT

TYPES OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE ALL COMPETING FOR THE SAME CONTRACTS?

MR. MCDONALD: NO. THERE'S -- YOU KNOW, THE --

THE INTERESTING PART IS -- AND I HAVE A LIST SOMEWHERE HERE -- ALL OF THESE

ENTITIES, AND I'M NOT GOING TO GO DOWN THE LIST, BUT TRUST ME WHEN SAY

(INDISCERNIBLE) THERE'S ABOUT 30 OR 40, INCLUDING THE BUSINESS COUNCIL

OF STATE OF NEW YORK THAT'S SAYING, THIS IS A PROGRAM WE SUPPORT. WE

WANT THIS, BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS WITH

DISABILITIES ARE GETTING THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK. WE DON'T WANT THEM

TO BE BASICALLY AT HOME DOING NOTHING AND NOT CONTRIBUTING TO SOCIETY.

WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE A TAX ON -- ON THE TAXPAYERS.

MR. GANDOLFO: THANK YOU.

MADAM SPEAKER, ON THE BILL, PLEASE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. GANDOLFO: MADAM SPEAKER, I, LIKE MANY OF

MY COLLEAGUES HERE, DO SUPPORT PROGRAMS FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE

FORMERLY INCARCERATED TO HELP THEM REINTEGRATE INTO SOCIETY BECAUSE OUR

CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, WHILE IT DOES HAVE A PUNITIVE ELEMENT, NEEDS

TO HAVE A REHABILITATIVE ELEMENT IN ORDER TO PREVENT FURTHER RECIDIVISM.

HOWEVER, WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE WITH THIS BILL IS GIVING A PREFERENCE TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

PEOPLE WHO HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD AND INTRODUCING THEM INTO A

PROGRAM THAT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO HELP PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES

TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE AFFORDED WORK OPPORTUNITIES TO BE

CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS OF SOCIETY AND TO WORK WITH DIGNITY. AND BY --

BY INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE COMPETING FOR THESE

CONTRACTS ON THE PREFERRED SOURCE LIST, IT INHERENTLY IS PITTING PEOPLE

WITH DISABILITIES, VETERANS WHO ARE STRUGGLING TO FIND WORK, WITH PEOPLE

WHO HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD.

AGAIN, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH REHABILITATIVE

PROGRAMS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAD TROUBLES IN THEIR PAST WHO DID SPEND

TIME IN JAIL; HOWEVER, THIS IS GIVING THEM A PREFERENCE OVER LAW-

ABIDING NEW YORKERS AND PUTTING THEM ON THE SAME LEVEL AS PEOPLE

WHO REALLY DO NEED THE HAND UP THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.

SO FOR THAT REASON I WILL BE VOTING NO ON THIS AND I

ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME. THANK YOU, MADAM

SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

READ THE LAST SECTION.

THE CLERK: THIS ACT SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: A PARTY VOTE HAS

BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. WALSH.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE WILL GENERALLY BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS PIECE

OF LEGISLATION. IF THERE IS ANYONE WHO WISHES TO VOTE AFFIRMATIVELY THEY

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MAY DO SO NOW AT THEIR SEATS. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. FALL.

MR. FALL: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. THE

MAJORITY CONFERENCE WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION. FOR

ANYBODY THAT WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, THEY CAN DO SO

AT THEIR DESK. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

THE CLERK WILL RECORD THE VOTE.

(THE CLERK RECORDED THE VOTE.)

MR. MCDONALD TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. MCDONALD: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

AND I THANK MY COLLEAGUE FOR HIS QUESTIONS.

YOU KNOW, JUST TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR, THE INTENT OF

THIS PROGRAM IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GROW THE PROGRAM FOR PREFERRED

SOURCE. THIS IS A PROGRAM INCEPTED AND SUPPORTED BY THE LEGISLATURE

OVER GENERATIONS, AND AT THE SAME TOKEN, AS WE CONTINUE TO SEE

SHORTAGES IN THE WORKFORCE. AS YOU KNOW, RECENTLY THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT DECIDED TO ELIMINATE THE GLEN -- GLENMONT JOBS [SIC]

PROGRAM HERE IN THE CAPITOL REGION. WE HAVE MANY INDIVIDUALS WITH

DISABILITIES LOOKING AT A CHANCE OF LIFE. AND AT THE SAME TOKEN,

INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE FORMERLY INCARCERATED ARE -- PAID THEIR DEBT TO

SOCIETY, THEY'RE COMING BACK TO THE WORKFORCE. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE

THEY HAVE A SEAMLESS TRANSITION IN. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT

RECIDIVISM IS NOT A QUESTION.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ONCE AGAIN, I APPRECIATE THE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS

FROM THE LEGISLATURE AND ALSO APPRECIATE THE SUPPORT FROM MY

COLLEAGUES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. MCDONALD IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MS. WALSH TO EXPLAIN HER VOTE.

MS. WALSH: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

SO, I ALSO APPRECIATED THE DEBATE. I JUST WANTED TO

MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT I COMPLETELY SUPPORT THE PREFERRED SOURCE

PROGRAM AS IT RELATES TO INDIVIDUALS WITH INTELLECTUAL AND

DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS -- AS -- AS IT WAS

DISCUSSED, WAS THE GENESIS OF THE WHOLE PREFERRED SOURCE PROGRAM. I

STRONGLY SUPPORT IT. WE KNOW THAT INDIVIDUALS WITH INTELLECTUAL AND

DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES ARE SEVERELY UNEMPLOYED AND

UNDEREMPLOYED IN THE WORKPLACE, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE

FOUGHT VERY HARD TO TRY TO ADDRESS DURING THE TIME THAT I'VE SPENT IN THE

LEGISLATURE AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.

I BELIEVE THAT WHEN IT COMES TO FORMERLY INCARCERATED

INDIVIDUALS, IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT ALL OF THE SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS THAT

WE, AS THE STATE, MAKE IN CREATING PROGRAMS FOR PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE

INCARCERATED TO IDENTIFY IF THEY HAVE ANY LEARNING DISABILITIES AND

ADDRESS THEM; TO PROVIDE EDUCATION. TO PROVIDE TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES.

AND THEN WHEN THEY -- WHEN THEY LEAVE, WHEN THEY'RE NO LONGER

INCARCERATED, TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY IMMEDIATELY HAVE THE DOCUMENTS

THAT THEY NEED IN ORDER TO GET THE SERVICES THAT THEY NEED IN TERMS OF

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

HOUSING OR PUBLIC ASSISTANCE WHEN THEY LEAVE -- WHEN THEY LEAVE THEIR

CORRECTIONAL FACILITY.

YOU KNOW, WE ALREADY HAVE ORGANIZATIONS THAT HELP

FORMERLY INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS FIND EMPLOYMENT, AND ALL OF THOSE

THINGS ARE GOOD AND I'M NOT QUESTIONING THEM. WE ALSO HAVE PASSED

LAWS SAYING THAT EMPLOYERS CAN'T EVEN ASK, REALLY, IF YOU'VE BEEN

INCARCERATED. YOU CAN'T -- YOU CAN'T ASK THEM. WE SEAL CRIMINAL

RECORDS TO MAKE SURE THAT FOLKS HAVE AS GOOD A CHANCE AS THEY CAN TO

BE -- TO GET REEMPLOYED. WE'VE DONE ALL OF THOSE THINGS. BUT I'M

SAYING THAT ON THIS BILL, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO DO IT. I DON'T THINK WE

NEED TO GO THAT EXTRA STEP AND PLACE THE FORMERLY INCARCERATED

INDIVIDUALS IN THE SAME PROGRAM THAT HELPS VETERANS WHO ARE -- HAVE

SERVED OUR COUNTRY, AND THOSE WITH INTELLECTUAL AND DEVELOPMENTAL

DISABILITIES WHO, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, FACE INCREDIBLY

INSURMOUNTABLE, SOMETIMES IT SEEMS INSURMOUNTABLE BARRIERS TO

EMPLOYMENT.

SO I'M IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL BECAUSE I JUST THINK

THAT WE ALREADY DO ENOUGH FOR THE FORMERLY INCARCERATED. I WISH THEM

WELL. I'LL BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL. THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MS. WALSH IN THE NEGATIVE.

MR. DAIS TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. DAIS: I JUST WANT TO SAY SOMETHING VERY QUICKLY

ON THE BILL AND A PART OF THE REASON I'M VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ONE THING WE CANNOT OVERLOOK WHEN IT COMES TO

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

VETERANS, A LOT OF TIMES VETERANS CAN FALL UNDER MULTIPLE CATEGORIES.

THERE'S A LOT OF OUR VETERANS WHO DEALT WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES FROM

PTSD, ALCOHOL, DRUG ABUSE AND OTHER ISSUES WHICH ENDS UP GETTING

THEM INCARCERATED OR IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM. AND, THEREFORE, THERE'S

ANOTHER WAY TO ENSURE THAT SPECIFICALLY THOSE VETERANS ARE ALSO NOT

FORGOTTEN ABOUT.

MENTAL HEALTH IS A BIG ISSUE WHERE A LOT OF OUR -- OUR

PEOPLE WHO ARE INCARCERATED HAVE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND THAT'S THE

ONLY REASON WHY THEY ARE THERE. AND GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE, A

SECOND LEASE ON LIFE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THEY'LL BE MORE PRODUCTIVE

CITIZENS.

THIS IS NOT TAKING AWAY FROM ANYONE. THIS IS MAKING

SURE THAT WE CAN DO SOMETHING MORE FULFILLING TO ENSURE THOSE HAVE A

BETTER CHANCE TO BE REENTERED INTO SOCIETY AND HAVE MORE SUCCESS, AND

THAT'S THE MAJOR REASON WHY I'M SUPPORTING THIS BILL AND VOTING IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. DAIS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

MR. BURDICK TO EXPLAIN HIS VOTE.

MR. BURDICK: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, FOR

THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE.

I'M VOTING YES ON THIS LEGISLATION. I DO HAVE SOME

KNOWLEDGE OF THE PREFERRED SOURCE PROVISIONS OF THE PUBLIC FINANCE

LAW, AND I COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THIS VERY FORWARD-LOOKING

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

APPROACH TO ACTUALLY MAKING OUR SOCIETY SAFER. IT BRINGS FORMERLY

INCARCERATED BACK INTO SOCIETY IN A WAY THAT THEY CAN BE EMPLOYED AND

CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY. AND AS HAS BEEN STATE -- HAS BEEN STATED,

THIS WILL REDUCE RECIDIVISM. THIS WILL MAKE OUR SOCIETY SAFER WHILE

PROVIDING EMPLOYMENT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PAID THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY.

SO I AGAIN COMMEND THE SPONSOR FOR THE WORK THAT

HE'S DONE, AND ALSO THANK THE SPEAKER FOR ALLOWING THIS BILL TO COME TO

THE FLOOR. I VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. BURDICK IN THE

AFFIRMATIVE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER VOTES? ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS.

(THE CLERK ANNOUNCED THE RESULTS.)

THE BILL IS PASSED.

PAGE 12, RULES REPORT NO. 308, THE CLERK WILL READ.

THE CLERK: ASSEMBLY NO. A03516, RULES REPORT

NO. 308, REYES, BICHOTTE HERMELYN, CHANDLER-WATERMAN,

CUNNINGHAM, GONZ�LEZ-ROJAS, SHIMSKY. AN ACT TO AMEND THE

EXECUTIVE LAW, IN RELATION TO ENACTING THE "KEEP POLICE RADIO PUBLIC

ACT."

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: AN EXPLANATION

HAVE BEEN REQUESTED.

MS. REYES.

MS. REYES: THIS BILL AMENDS THE EXECUTIVE LAW BY

ADDING A NEW SECTION 222 (A) TO REQUIRE THAT ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT

AGENCY IN NEW YORK STATE THAT ENCRYPTS ITS RADIO COMMUNICATIONS

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MUST PROVIDE REALTIME ACCESS TO NONSENSITIVE COMMUNICATION TO

EMERGENCY SERVICES ORGANIZATIONS AND PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS AS

DEFINED BY CIVIL RIGHTS LAW 79-H. THE BILL DOES NOT PROHIBIT

ENCRYPTION, BUT RATHER ESTABLISHES A MECHANISM TO ENSURE THAT ESSENTIAL

PARTIES CAN CONTINUE TO RECEIVE REALTIME PUBLIC SAFETY INFORMATION

WITHOUT COMPROMISING INVESTIGATIONS OR INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: MR. REILLY.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WILL

THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. REYES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MS. REYES.

SO IN THE LEGISLATION, DOES IT HAVE A BUFFER TIME FOR

HOW IT WILL BE BROADCAST?

MS. REYES: NO, IT'S IN REALTIME.

MR. REILLY: SO IN REALTIME. SO THERE'S NO DELAYED

-- THERE'S NO DELAY IN --

MS. REYES: NO. OTHER STATES HAVE ISSUED DELAY

REGULATIONS. WE ARE SAYING REALTIME AND JUST LIMITING THE PEOPLE WHO

HAVE ACCESS TO IT.

MR. REILLY: SO WHO WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THIS?

MS. REYES: SO, OF COURSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT.

MR. REILLY: OKAY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MS. REYES: EMERGENCY SERVICES ORGANIZATIONS LIKE

IN SOME COUNTIES VOLUNTEER FIRE -- FIRE DEPARTMENTS, AMBULANCE

SERVICES, AND ALSO PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS AS DEFINED BY THE CIVIL

RIGHTS LAW.

MR. REILLY: HOW WILL THEY ENSURE THAT ONLY THOSE

THAT ARE DELINEATED IN THE LEGISLATION WILL HAVE ACCESS?

MS. REYES: WE EVEN INCLUDED LANGUAGE TO PROVIDE

A CREDENTIALING PROCESS THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE. SO THE

DEPARTMENT OF STATE WILL ISSUE THE CREDENTIALS TO -- TO BONA FIDE

JOURNALISTS TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THIS, AND THEN OF COURSE TO EMERGENCY

SERVICES ORGANIZATIONS.

MR. REILLY: ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT -- WHAT ARE WE

ANTICIPATING WITH THIS LEGISLATION THAT WOULD MAKE SOMEONE A BONA FIDE

JOURNALIST?

MS. REYES: SO THAT IS CLEARLY DESCRIBED IN THE LAW.

LET ME READ IT TO YOU. SO, THE NEW YORK CIVIL RIGHTS LAW 79-H, PART 6

DESCRIBES PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS. PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS SHALL MEAN

ONE, WHO, FOR GAIN OR LIVELIHOOD, IS ENGAGED IN THE GATHERING,

PREPARING, COLLECTING, WRITING, EDITING, FILMING, TAPING OR

PHOTOGRAPHING OF NEWS INTENDED FOR A NEWSPAPER, MAGAZINE, NEWS

AGENCY, PRESS ASSOCIATION OR WIRE SERVICE OR OTHER PROFESSIONAL MEDIUM

OR AGENCY WHICH HAS ONE OF ITS REGULAR FUNCTIONS -- WHICH ONE OF ITS

REGULAR FUNCTIONS IS THE PROCESSING AND THE RESEARCH OF NEWS INTENDED

FOR DISSEMINATION TO THE PUBLIC. SUCH PERSON SHALL BE SOMEONE

PERFORMING SAID FUNCTION EITHER AS A REGULAR EMPLOYEE OR AS AN

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

OTHERWISE PROFESSIONAL AFFILIATED FOR GAIN OR LIKELIHOOD WITH SUCH A

MEDIUM OF COMMUNICATION.

MR. REILLY: SO, SCANNER RADIO IS AN APP. WOULD

THEY QUALIFY UNDER THIS FOR HAVING ACCESS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT RADIO

FREQUENCIES?

MS. REYES: YOU SAID SCANNER RADIO?

MR. REILLY: SCANNER APP [SIC]. IT'S A SCANNER

RADIO -- SCANNER RADIO. IT'S AN -- IT'S AN APP WHERE IT MONITORS ACROSS

THE WORLD RADIO TRANSMISSIONS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT, FOR EMS, AND FOR

OTHER AGENCIES LIKE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS.

MS. REYES: NO. THIS ISN'T -- THIS ISN'T -- THIS DOESN'T

CAPTURE THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT CONSIDERED JOURNALISTS.

MR. REILLY: IF THEY COORDINATE AT SOME POINT WITH

A NEWS REPORTER, WOULD THAT QUALIFY THEM?

MS. REYES: THE -- NO, DOS IS -- IS THE ENTITY

RESPONSIBLE FOR ISSUING CREDENTIALS.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO WOULD DOS POTENTIALLY

GIVE THEM A CREDENTIAL IF THEY ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH -- WITH A

JOURNALIST?

MS. REYES: THAT, I'M TOLD, WOULD BE AGAINST THE

LAW. IT WOULD -- IT WOULD FLY IN THE FACE OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAW THAT

DEFINES A JOURNALIST.

MR. REILLY: BUT IF THEY ENTERED INTO AN AGREEMENT

AND THEY'RE A SUBCONTRACTOR FOR A JOURNALIST, WOULD THAT APPLY?

MS. REYES: NO.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. REILLY: WHY WOULDN'T IT? SPECIFICALLY.

(PAUSE/CONFERENCING)

SO THIS -- WHY ARE YOU LOOKING FOR THAT?

MS. REYES: I HAVE A DETERMINATION FROM THE

DEPARTMENT OF STATE.

MR. REILLY: SAY IT AGAIN?

MS. REYES: I HAVE A LETTER, A -- AN OPINION AND A

DETERMINATION FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE --

MR. REILLY: OKAY.

MS. REYES: -- SPEAKING OF JOURNALISTS. AND...

(CONFERENCING)

SO THEY -- THEY -- SO DOS CURRENTLY PROMULGATES THOSE

REGULATIONS.

MR. REILLY: SO -- SO WE'RE BASICALLY GIVING DOS

THE -- THEY DETERMINE WHOSE --

MS. REYES: WELL, NO, THEY -- THEY ALREADY HAVE THAT

RIGHT. THEY ALREADY -- THEY ALREADY HAVE THAT PURVIEW --

MR. REILLY: SO WE'VE ALREADY --

MS. REYES: -- TO CREDENTIAL -- TO CREDENTIAL BONA

FIDE JOURNALISTS.

MR. REILLY: ALL RIGHT. SO WE ALREADY HAVE

BLOGGERS THAT ARE CONSIDERED JOURNALISTS, RIGHT? THEY -- BECAUSE THE

EXPANSION HAS HAPPENED OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEARS WHERE WHAT WE

CONSIDER NEWS SOURCES HAS CHANGED. SO, LIKE, A BLOGGER NOW COULD BE

CONSIDERED A JOURNALIST, AND DOS IS GIVING THEM ACCESS, RIGHT, FOR THE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

CREDENTIALS?

MS. REYES: THEY WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE

CONSIDERED PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS BECAUSE THEY NEED TO BE

CREDENTIALED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE TO BE -- TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS --

MR. REILLY: I -- I -- WE'RE -- WE'RE GOING AROUND A

LITTLE BIT OF A CIRCLE THEN.

MS. REYES: YEAH.

MR. REILLY: SO WHAT I'M ASKING IS, IF THE SCANNER

RADIO APP, THE PEOPLE WHO RUN IT, DETERMINE THAT THEY ARE GONNA ENTER

INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH A JOURNALIST, WOULD THEY FALL UNDER THAT

UMBRELLA AND BEING APPROVED BY DOS?

MS. REYES: SO, IF THEY WERE TO ENTER INTO AN

AGREEMENT IN THE SCENARIO THAT YOU JUST POSED WITH A JOURNALIST, THAT'S

ACTUALLY AGAINST THE LAW BECAUSE DOS CREDENTIALS THE JOURNALIST AND

NOT THE ENTITY. SO THEY, UNDER THE LAW, CAN'T DO THAT NOW; USE THE

CREDENTIALS OF A JOURNALIST.

MR. REILLY: BUT IF THEY --

MS. REYES: (INDISCERNIBLE/CROSSTALK) --

MR. REILLY: SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO GET HIRED -- SO

THEY WOULD HAVE TO GET HIRED BY THE JOURNALIST.

MS. REYES: WELL, THEY WOULD HAVE TO -- THEY WOULD

HAVE TO BE JOURNALISTS THAT ARE EMPLOYED BY A NEWS ORGANIZATION, A

NEWSPAPER, MAGAZINE, NEWS AGENCY, PRESS ASSOCIATION, OTHER

PROFESSIONAL MEDIUM OR AGENCY WHICH HAS ONE OF ITS REGULAR FUNCTIONS

THE PROCESSING AND RESEARCHING OF NEWS INTENDED FOR THE DISSEMINATION

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

OF THE PUBLIC.

MR. REILLY: WHICH SCANNER RADIO APP DOES.

THEY BROADCAST, AND NEWS -- NEW ENTITIES ALREADY USE THEM. THAT'S

WHY I'M -- THAT'S WHY I WANT TO CLARIFY.

MS. REYES: THE NEWS ENTITY USED THEM BECAUSE WE

-- THERE ARE -- THERE ARE POLICE DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE BEGUN TO ENCRYPT

RADIO COMMUNICATIONS, AND WE'RE TRYING TO SAY -- ONE, WE'RE TRYING TO

REGULATE THIS, RIGHT? WE UNDERSTAND THAT POLICE DEPARTMENTS WANT

ENCRYPTION. BUT WE'RE TRYING TO SAY THAT FOR THE PURPOSES OF

DISSEMINATING NEWS AND FOR THE PURPOSE OF TRANSPARENCY AND PUBLIC

SAFETY, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EMERGENCY SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS

HAVE ACCESS TO IT AND THAT OUR JOURNALISTS HAVE ACCESS TO IT.

MR. REILLY: OKAY. SO CAN YOU THINK OF -- CAN YOU

THINK OF ANY REASON WHY LAW ENFORCEMENT MAY WANT AN ENCRYPTED

RADIO TRANSMISSION?

MS. REYES: NO, BUT I'M SURE YOU'RE GONNA TELL ME.

MR. REILLY: OR AT LEAST A DELAYED.

MS. REYES: I'M SURE YOU'RE GONNA TELL ME.

MR. REILLY: SO IS THERE -- IS THERE -- HAS THERE BEEN

A DISCUSSION ABOUT HAVING A DELAYED FREQUENCY? LIKE, THE DELAYED

TRANSMISSIONS.

MS. REYES: WE HAVE. LIKE I SAID, OTHER STATES HAVE

-- HAVE IMPLEMENTED A DELAYED TRANSMISSION. BUT THEY'VE

IMPLEMENTED DELAYED TRANSMISSION AND STILL KEPT THE RADIOS PUBLIC FOR

THE GENERAL PUBLIC. AND WE'RE SAYING THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AVAILABLE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC, THAT IT'S ONLY GOING TO BE AVAILABLE TO EMERGENCY

SERVICES ORGANIZATIONS AND -- AND JOURNALISTS THAT ARE CREDENTIALED BY

THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE.

MR. REILLY: SO IS THERE -- IS THERE A POTENTIAL THAT

HAVING IT OPEN TO JOURNALISTS COULD ACTUALLY, IF THEY REPORT IT IN

REALTIME, COULD BE JEOPARDY TO THE PUBLIC?

MS. REYES: NO. WE BELIEVE -- WE BELIEVE IT TO BE A

BENEFIT TO THE PUBLIC, AND I'LL GIVE YOU SOME EXAMPLES. DURING THE

BUFFALO MASS SHOOTING IN 2022, LOCAL JOURNALISTS LOST ACCESS TO

COMMUNICATIONS THERE AND WEREN'T ABLE TO REPORT IN REALTIME. SO THERE

WERE FAMILIES THAT WERE WONDERING ABOUT THEIR LOVED ONES DURING THAT

TIME. AND IF -- IF JOURNALISTS WOULD HAVE HAD ACCESS TO THAT

INFORMATION, THEY CAN ALSO WARN REGULAR CITIZENS AS THEY BROADCAST THE

NEWS ABOUT SOMETHING EMINENT THAT'S HAPPENING, PERHAPS TO KEEP

PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR -- OUT OF THE AREA SO THAT THEY CAN STAY SAFE. AND

THESE WOULD BE CONSIDERED NONSENSITIVE UPDATES IN REALTIME.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHERE THE WILDFIRES IN 2018 IN

CALIFORNIA WHERE THEY HAD ENCRYPTED RADIOS AS WELL, AND THAT DELAYED

SOME OF THE EMERGENCY SERVICES BEING ABLE TO RESPOND TO THE FIRES

BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE ENCRYPTION. THERE ARE -- AGAIN, THERE ARE --

THERE ARE, LIKE IN OUR -- LIKE IN OUR STATE, COUNTIES THAT HAVE VOLUNTEER

FIREFIGHTERS AND VOLUNTEER EMERGENCY SERVICES THAT BENEFIT FROM ACCESS

TO THE -- TO THE RADIO.

MR. REILLY: THANK YOU, MADAM SPONSOR.

ON THE BILL, MADAM SPEAKER.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. REILLY: SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF ISSUES HERE THAT

I'D LIKE TO RAISE ABOUT HAVING REALTIME ACCESS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT

TRANSMISSIONS, RIGHT? YEARS AGO WHILE I WAS WORKING IN MIDTOWN

NORTH FOR THE NYPD, WE HAD WHAT'S CALLED THE "YUGOS". THEY WERE A

YUGOSLAVIAN BURGLARY TEAM, AND THEY USED TO HIT THE DIAMOND DISTRICT

AND THEY USED TO CARRY RADIOS. AND EVEN IF WE'RE SAYING THAT ONLY

JOURNALISTS WILL HAVE ACCESS TO THIS, IT WILL BE AVAILABLE TO THOSE THAT

SHOULD NOT HAVE IT. AND WHAT HAPPENED DURING THAT TIME IS THEY WOULD

GET THE TRANSMISSIONS, AND THEY WOULD KNOW BY THE CODES WHEN AN

OFFICER WAS ASSIGNED A -- A UNIT IN THE FIELD TO RESPOND TO THAT ALARM

THAT THEY SET OFF. BY NOT HAVING A DELAY, WE WILL BE SETTING THEM UP,

LAW ENFORCEMENT, FOR FAILURE TRYING TO APPREHEND THOSE COMMITTING A

CRIME LIKE THAT.

ANOTHER ISSUE THAT WAS RAISED DURING THE DEBATE WAS

ABOUT HAVING REALTIME ACCESS TO THE INFORMATION SO THAT WE COULD STOP

PEOPLE FROM -- FROM -- OR WARN PEOPLE, RIGHT, ABOUT THE SHOOTING, ABOUT

THE WILDFIRES. I'D LIKE TO OFFER ANOTHER SCENARIO. YOU HAVE A CALL OF A

POTENTIAL OR A SUPPORTED SHOOTING, A REPORTED SHOOTING AT A SCHOOL. ALL

OF A SUDDEN THE NEWS IS PUTTING THAT OUT. THE REALITY IS, PARENTS WILL BE

RUSHING TO THAT SCHOOL. IT WILL PREVENT EMERGENCY PERSONNEL FROM

HAVING ACCESS. THAT IS WHY I ASKED IF THERE WAS A POTENTIAL TO HAVE A

DELAYED ACCESS TO THE TRANSMISSIONS. IT COULD BE 15 MINUTES, IT COULD

BE 20 MINUTES. IT COULD EVEN BE TEN MINUTES. SOME TYPE OF DELAY

WOULD HELP OUR FIRST RESPONDERS CREATE THE NECESSARY TRIAGE LOCATION,

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

CREATE THE NECESSARY COMMAND POST THEY NEED TO COORDINATE RESOURCES

THAT MAY HAVE TO GET TO THAT INCIDENT.

WHEN WE HAVE INFORMATION THAT'S PUT OUT IMMEDIATELY

BECAUSE THEY HEAR IT OVER A RADIO, A LAW ENFORCEMENT RADIO, IT DOES NOT

NECESSARILY MEAN IT'S CONFIRMED. SO EVEN IF THE SITUATION ISN'T

CONFIRMED, IT COULD CREATE PANIC AND IT COULD CREATE UNNECESSARY

BOTTLENECK RESPONDING TO AN EMERGENCY. THAT'S WHY I WOULD HOPE THAT

WE MAY ACTUALLY LOOK INTO THIS AND MAKE AN AMENDMENT JUST TO ADD

THAT BUFFER TIME. WE COULD STILL GIVE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS AND GIVE

JOURNALISTS THE ACCESS TO KEEP THE PUBLIC INFORMED, BUT WE ALSO GIVE

THAT LITTLE CUSHION TO ENSURE THAT RESOURCES THAT ARE VITAL GET TO THE

SCENE.

THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. BEEPHAN.

MR. BEEPHAN: THANK YOU. SORRY TO HAVE MY BACK

TO YOU.

SO DOES THIS FRAMEWORK --

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ARE YOU ASKING

QUESTIONS OF THE SPONSOR?

MR. BEEPHAN: WILL THE SPONSOR YIELD?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. REYES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. BEEPHAN: THANK YOU, MS. REYES.

DOES THIS FRAMEWORK EXIST IN ANY OTHER DEPARTMENT

ACROSS THE STATE, POLICE DEPARTMENT? ANYONE ELSE THAT --

MS. REYES: THE FRAMEWORK FOR --

MR. BEEPHAN: FOR ALLOWING JOURNALISTS TO HAVE

ACCESS TO THEIR LIVE ENCRYPTED FREQUENCIES.

MS. REYES: WELL, ENCRYPTION ONLY STARTED RECENTLY.

FOR -- HISTORICALLY, THE GENERAL PUBLIC HAS HAD ACCESS TO POLICE RADIOS.

MR. BEEPHAN: I MEAN, OUR DEPARTMENT, AS LONG AS

I'VE BEEN THERE, HAVE BEEN ENCRYPTING OUR RADIO CHANNEL. SO YOU'RE

SAYING THAT THERE'S NO POLICE DEPARTMENT OUT THERE OR ANY EMERGENCY

SERVICES THAT ARE PROVIDING ENCRYPTED ACCESS, ACCESSING ENCRYPTED

CHANNELS TO JOURNALISTS? NOT TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE?

MS. REYES: IN -- SO, IN NEW YORK THE ENCRYPTION

THAT IS HAPPENING IS ENCRYPTION FULL STOP AND THEY'RE NOT HAVING ACCESS,

WHICH IS WHY WE CRAFTED THE LEGISLATION.

MR. BEEPHAN: GOT IT. SO INSTEAD OF MAYBE GOING

THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE -- WELL, I GUESS THE DEPARTMENT OF

STATE COULD GO THROUGH LICENSING. LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A LITTLE BIT.

SO SAY IF A BONA FIDE JOURNALIST GOES TO THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND

GETS LICENSED. WHAT'S NEXT? HOW DO THEY GET ACCESS TO THOSE

FREQUENCIES? WHO GIVES THEM THE PASSWORDS, CREDENTIALS? IS THAT THE

DEPARTMENT OR IS -- DOES THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE HAVE TO MAINTAIN THAT

INFORMATION?

MS. REYES: THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE IS TASKED WITH

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

PROMULGATING THE RULES. THEY ALREADY --

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: MADAM SPEAKER, IF YOU

COULD HAVE OUR COLLEAGUES TO SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONES.

MR. BEEPHAN: SORRY.

MRS. PEOPLES-STOKES: THANK YOU.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE

BIT DIFFICULT BECAUSE SHE'S BEHIND YOU. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT

HER, IT'S OKAY.

MR. BEEPHAN: THAT'S ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

SHE'S TALKING BEHIND MY BACK, BUT THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

(LAUGHTER)

MS. REYES: ALL GOOD THINGS, I PROMISE.

MR. BEEPHAN: SO, YEAH. SO, WHO HAS TO MAINTAIN

THESE FREQUENCIES? WHO PROVIDES THEM TO THE -- THE NOW-CREDENTIALED

JOURNALIST?

(CONFERENCING)

MS. REYES: SO, LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS CONTROL OF

ACCESS TO THE FREQUENCIES. THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE WILL PROMULGATE

THE RULES, AND THEY ALREADY -- I HAVE TO SAY THEY ALREADY DO

CREDENTIALING FOR JOURNALISTS. THIS IS A CRITERIA THAT ALREADY EXISTS UNDER

THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE. WE'RE JUST SAYING THAT FOR THIS ENCRYPTION,

THAT THE -- THE ACCESS WOULD BE GIVEN TO THESE CATEGORIES WHO ARE

CREDENTIALED AND REGULATED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF THE STATE, AND LAW

ENFORCEMENT WILL HAVE -- WILL BE REQUIRED TO GIVE THEM ACCESS TO THIS,

TO -- TO THE RADIO FREQUENCY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. BEEPHAN: GOT IT. SO IT'S UP TO THE LOCAL

MUNICIPALITY, THEN. SO WHAT HAPPENS IF THE MUNICIPALITY USES A SPECIAL

TYPE OF EQUIPMENT THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO?

NOT EVERY SCANNER HAS THE ABILITY TO -- TO ACCESS TRUNKED RADIO SYSTEMS.

NOT EVERY -- YOU KNOW, WHO'S GONNA BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PURCHASING

THAT EQUIPMENT? WOULD ANY OF THESE COSTS FALL ON THE MUNICIPALITY

THEMSELVES?

MS. REYES: WE DON'T REGULATE IN THE -- IN THE

LANGUAGE OF THE BILL THE TYPE OF THE -- OF EQUIPMENT THAT IS USED. AND

I'M ASSUMING THAT IF A NEWS -- AND THIS IS -- I'M ASSUMING THAT IF A NEWS

STATION WANTS TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE RADIO, UNDER THE LAW WILL HAVE TO

FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THE EQUIPMENT.

MR. BEEPHAN: OKAY. SO SAY IF THEY -- IF THEY

CANNOT PURCHASE THE EQUIPMENT OR THEY HAVE DIFFICULTY FINDING IT, AT

ANY POINT DOES THAT BECOME THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE -- THE POLICE

DEPARTMENT TO PROVIDE TO THEM?

MS. REYES: NO. AND THAT'S NOT IN OUR BILL

LANGUAGE.

MR. BEEPHAN: OKAY.

SO SAY IF A JOURNALIST VIOLATES THE -- THE -- WHATEVER

THE RULES ARE PERTAINING TO THIS? SAY IF THEY ATTACHED IT TO THEIR OWN

BROADCAST SYSTEM, WHICH VIOLATES NOT ONLY FEDERAL LAW, BUT THE RULES OF

THIS PROGRAM. WHAT IS NOW THE REPERCUSSION FOR THAT JOURNALIST?

MS. REYES: WELL, THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE CAN --

CAN TAKE THEIR CREDENTIALS AWAY.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. BEEPHAN: IS THERE A CRIMINAL CHARGE

ASSOCIATED WITH THAT?

MS. REYES: I MEAN, THAT DEPENDS ON -- THERE --

THERE ARE LAWS THAT GOVERN CONDUCT FOR JOURNALISTS, RIGHT, AND -- AND

CONDUCT IN GENERAL. SO I -- I -- RIGHT. THAT'S SPECIFIC -- THERE'S NO

PENALTIES IN THE BILL, SO THAT'S SPECIFIC TO WHATEVER SCENARIO.

MR. BEEPHAN: OKAY. AND ARE THERE ANY PENAL --

SO SAY IF A LOCAL DEPARTMENT COMES UP WITH THEIR OWN -- I UNDERSTAND

THIS IS -- THEY'RE ALLOWED TO PRECLUDE SENSITIVE INFORMATION, RIGHT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. BEEPHAN: SO, OFTENTIMES, YES, OUR OFFICERS

WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, CALL A LANDLINE OR GET OFF THE RADIO

SOMETIMES. BUT IN A LOT OF HIGH STRESS CIRCUMSTANCES, THEY DON'T

ALWAYS HAVE THAT ABILITY WHEN THEY'RE CALLING FOR EITHER BACKUP,

TRANSMITTING INFORMATION. WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY DECIDED TO HAVE THEIR

OWN SEPARATE FREQUENCY DEDICATED FOR THOSE, YOU KNOW, SPECIAL

CIRCUMSTANCES? ARE THEY GONNA BE REQUIRED TO GIVE THAT FREQUENCY

OVER?

(CONFERENCING)

MS. REYES: THAT -- THAT WOULD FALL UNDER THE

CATEGORY OF SENSITIVE INFORMATION, SO THAT'S NOT REQUIRED TO BE SHARED.

MR. BEEPHAN: OKAY. AND WHAT IS -- WHAT

HAPPENS IF SENSITIVE INFORMATION HAPPENS TO BE SHARED ON A -- LIKE, ON

AN ENCRYPTED CHANNEL THAT THEY NOW HAVE ACCESS TO? CAN THE

DEPARTMENT GO BACK AND SAY, ALL RIGHT, MAYBE THIS IS NOT WORKING

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY AT ALL TIMES TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE NOT

SHARING SENSITIVE INFORMATION ON ALL THESE CHANNELS?

MS. REYES: WELL, IT'S NOT THE JOURNALIST'S FAULT IF

SOMEBODY SHARES SENSITIVE INFORMATION IN A CHANNEL WHERE THEY

SHOULDN'T BE SHARING SENSITIVE INFORMATION.

MR. BEEPHAN: YEAH, WELL WHEN -- WHEN YOU'RE IN

A HIGH STRESS ENVIRONMENT IT'S NOT -- YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS

THINKING TO CHANGE CHANNELS.

MS. REYES: I - I -- I'M CERTAIN THAT EVEN -- EVEN

UNDER STRESSFUL SITUATIONS OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT WILL MAKE

DETERMINATIONS AS TO WHETHER THEY SHOULD BE SHARING SENSITIVE

INFORMATION OVER THE RADIO. WHETHER ENCRYPTED OR NOT, BECAUSE I THINK

SENSITIVE INFORMATION MEANS THAT PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T BE SAYING IT

OVER THE RADIO.

MR. BEEPHAN: NOW, ARE THE JOURNALISTS HELD TO

ANY TYPE OF CONDUCT WITH THIS, ENSURING THAT THEY'RE -- THEY'RE

TRANSMITTING ALL THE UPDATED INFORMATION? BECAUSE THINGS CHANGE

FREQUENTLY ON SCENES. AND OFTENTIMES, JUST SO YOU KNOW, OUR INITIAL

REPORTS THAT WE GET ARE SOMETIMES FALSE.

(CONFERENCING)

MS. REYES: THE JOURNALISTS HAVE A CODE OF CONDUCT

AS WELL THAT THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW UNDER THE LAW.

MR. BEEPHAN: OKAY. UNDERSTOOD.

NOW, AND THERE'S NO FUNDING AVAILABLE FOR

MUNICIPALITIES IF THEY NEED EQUIPMENT TO UPDATE SYSTEMS, CHANGE

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

SYSTEMS TO ACCOMMODATE THIS?

MS. REYES: I'M SORRY?

MR. BEEPHAN: IS THERE ANY FUNDING AVAILABLE FOR

MUNICIPALITIES IF THEY NEED TO UPGRADE THEIR SYSTEMS TO ACCOMMODATE

THIS REQUEST?

MS. REYES: THAT'S NOT GERMANE TO THE BILL.

MR. BEEPHAN: I MEAN, I THINK IT IS. IF YOU'RE

TELLING A MUNICIPALITY THAT USES, SAY, A CERTAIN TYPE OF TRUNKED RADIO

SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO BROADCAST IT, YOU KNOW,

OPENLY.

MS. REYES: IF THEY ALREADY USE AN ENCRYPTION

SYSTEM THEY'RE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO THOSE THAT ARE CREDENTIALED

UNDER THIS LAW.

MR. BEEPHAN: RIGHT. BUT THAT MEANS EVERYONE

ELSE HAS SIMILAR TYPE OF INTEROPERABLE EQUIPMENT. WHAT HAPPENS IF

THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE WITH GENERAL SCANNERS? ARE THEY REQUIRED TO CHANGE

MS. REYES: WE'RE -- WE'RE NOT MANDATING IN THE

LANGUAGE THAT MUNICIPALITIES NEED TO --

MR. BEEPHAN: GOT IT.

MS. REYES: -- BUY EQUIPMENT. WE DON'T SPECIFY

THE EQUIPMENT THAT THEY HAVE TO USE.

MR. BEEPHAN: ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ALL FROM MY END.

OH, ACTUALLY ONCE LAST QUESTION. WHAT HAPPENS IF A

LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY JUST DOESN'T COMPLY?

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MS. REYES: THEN THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE LAW.

MR. BEEPHAN: OKAY. WHAT'S THE PENALTY?

(CONFERENCING)

MS. REYES: IT'S LEFT UP TO THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE

TO PROMULGATE RULES AS TO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A DEPARTMENT OF LAW

ENFORCEMENT DOESN'T FOLLOW THE LAW.

MR. BEEPHAN: GOT IT. THANK YOU, MS. REYES.

ON THE BILL.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: ON THE BILL.

MR. BEEPHAN: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.

YOU KNOW, TIME AND TIME AGAIN I'VE SEEN FROM MY

EXPERIENCE AS A FIRST RESPONDER, SENSITIVE INFORMATION TRANSMITTED

ACROSS RADIOS. I'VE ALSO SEEN INCORRECT AND INACCURATE INFORMATION

TRANSMITTED ACROSS RADIOS. AND WE KNOW THAT WE ALL HAVE LOCAL

JOURNALISTS, BUFFS, EVERYONE ELSE IN BETWEEN, WHO CAN GO STRAIGHT TO

TWITTER AND FACEBOOK AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN BETWEEN, SHARING THIS

INFORMATION. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TASKS [SIC] FORCE THAT

OPERATES THROUGHOUT THE STATE ON SENSITIVE CHANNELS. AND I KNOW THAT

-- THAT THERE'S A WAY TO EXEMPT THEM. BUT MY CONCERN IS IS THAT WE

CANNOT CONTROL WHAT INFORMATION IS SHARED ON EACH ONE OF THOSE

CHANNELS, ESPECIALLY HIGH STRESS ENVIRONMENTS.

I THINK THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY A DISSERVICE TO THE PUBLIC,

CREATING MASS HYSTERIA AT TIMES WHEN THINGS THAT ARE JUST FACTUALLY NOT

TRUE IS BEING PUT OUT THERE TO THE PUBLIC. AND ONCE IT'S OUT, IT'S OUT.

THERE'S NO TAKING IT BACK.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

FOR THAT REASON AND SO MANY OTHERS, I'M GONNA HAVE TO

BE IN THE NEGATIVE ON THIS BILL. I'VE SPOKEN TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY

LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES THAT USE ENCRYPTED CHANNELS, AND I COULD TELL

YOU FIRSTHAND THAT THIS WILL DIRECTLY MAKE THEIR JOBS HARDER. AND I

THINK IT WILL HAVE A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON OUR PUBLIC SAFETY AT HOME.

SO THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER, AND THANK YOU TO THE

SPONSOR FOR HER TIME.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THANK YOU.

MR. DURSO.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER. WOULD

THE SPONSOR YIELD FOR SOME QUESTIONS?

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: WILL THE SPONSOR

YIELD?

MS. REYES: YES.

ACTING SPEAKER HUNTER: THE SPONSOR YIELDS.

MR. DURSO: THANK YOU, MS. REYES.

SO JUST TO DRILL DOWN A COUPLE OF THINGS. THIS -- THE

BILL LANGUAGE SAYS LAW ENFORCEMENT, CORRECT? EXCUSE ME. ALL LAW

ENFORCEMENT, CORRECT, THAT ARE USING RADIOS?

MS. REYES: CORRECT.

MR. DURSO: SO THIS ISN'T SPECIFICALLY JUST FOR OUR

STATE POLICE OR LOCAL MUNICIPAL POLICE, IT'S ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT,

CORRECT?

MS. REYES: CORRECT. I MEAN, EMERGENCIES HAPPEN

ALL OVER THE STATE.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. DURSO: I'M SORRY?

MS. REYES: EMERGENCY -- EMERGENCIES HAPPEN ALL

OVER THE STATE.

MR. DURSO: CORRECT. NO, I -- I JUST WANTED TO

MAKE SURE --

MS. REYES: AND NEWS, AS WELL.

MR. DURSO: RIGHT. BUT IT'S -- IT'S NOT JUST FOR OUR

POLICE, IT'S ALSO FOR OUR CORRECTIONS DEPARTMENTS, PUBLIC SAFETY,

ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE PUBLIC, CORRECT?

MS. REYES: (INDISCERNIBLE) YOUR QUESTION.

MR. DURSO: BECAUSE IT SAYS LAW ENFORCEMENT. IT

DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY SAY POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

(PAUSE/CONFERENCING)

MS. REYES: SO, WE HAVE A DEFINITION FOR LAW

ENFORCEMENT UNDER THE LAW.

MR. DURSO: SURE.

MS. REYES: AND IT DOESN'T SPECIFY WHETHER

CORRECTIONS IS. I'M NOT CERTAIN IF THEY'RE CAPTURED UNDER THAT DEFINITION.

MR. DURSO: SO -- SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, AND

-- AND JUST TO PUT IT ON THE RECORD, MY UNDERSTANDING IS CORRECTIONS

DEPARTMENTS WOULD FALL UNDER LAW ENFORCEMENT. AND SO MY QUESTION

WITH THAT, JUST IF IT DOES, WHY WOULD THE PUBLIC AND/OR A JOURNALIST NEED

TO KNOW RADIO DISPATCHES OR RADIO CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE

WITHIN A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY?

MS. REYES: THIS IS NOT THE INTENT OF THE LAW.

NYS ASSEMBLY JUNE 5, 2025

MR. DURSO: I ASKED A --

MS. REYES: AND I DON'T -- AND I DON'T -- AND I DON'T

-- I'M NOT CERTAIN IF THAT WAS A PRACTICE EVEN BEFORE THE ISSUE OF

ENCRYPTION. IF -- IF THE PUBLIC HAD ACCESS TO --

MR. DURSO: I HAVE NO CLUE, EITHER.

MS. REYES: -- CORRECTION OFFICERS' RADIOS. BUT THIS

IS NOT THE PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE FOR.

MR. DURSO: UNDERSTOOD. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT'S

NOT THE INTENTION. BUT MY CONCERN, ONCE AGAIN, IS THE LANGUAGE IN THE

BILL, JUST ONE PART OF IT.

MS. REYES: DO YOU -- DO YOU KNOW IF THE

DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS ENCRYPTS THEIR RADIOS?

MR. DURSO: I HAVE NO CLUE.

MS. REYES: HAVE THEY STARTED ENCRYPTING RADIOS?

MR. DURSO: I -- I HAVE NO CLUE. I DIDN'T -- BUT I

ALSO -- I DIDN'T CREATE THIS BILL OR WRITE THE LANGUAGE. AND IN THE BILL IT

SAYS LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHICH TO MY UNDERSTANDING UNDER NEW YORK

STATE, LAW ENFORCEMENT -- EXCUSE ME, CORRECTIONS ARE CONSIDERED LAW

ENFORCEMENT. SO I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT ON THE RECORD IS THAT WOULD

MAKE -- BE A BEGINNING OF A CONCERN FOR ME.

(PAUSE/CONFERENCING)

MS. REYES: THEY'RE TRYING TO DETERMINE THE CORRECT

RESPONSE.

MR. DURSO: NO, NO. IT'S OKAY. AND I -- I HAVE